# Performance Samples - Pacific - Symphonic Strings



## Tinesaeriel

I know it's been discussed a little in the Voyage thread, but I decided it might be worth making its own thread:

Based on this play-list of samples written in super-early pre-alpha, _ESPECIALLY_ the legato: This is sounding to be SUPER promising, after so many disappointing symphonic-sized releases as of late. The mix on all the example pieces posted so far are _really _dark and muddy, but still, this is super early pre-alpha noodling done by Jasper, so it should be expected that it's not going to sound well-mixed straight outta the gate.

Still, though for a symphonic-sized string library, the sound is very detailed and the legato sounds to be super astounding right outta the gate, and the vibrato isn't super heavy, either. This might be my next purchase, honestly, just off these super early noodlings.


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## Daniel

This is really impressive!


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## Sovereign

The legato police approves.


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## FireGS

While dark, this one sounds a bit brighter than the other two.


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## Nate Johnson

jeebus, who cares about the samples - dude's a monster composer!


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## Peter Satera

Some provisional info for you folks:


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## mikeh-375

...guys I seem to remember there was a compatibility prob with Logic, is this still the case? They sound bloody marvellous and I want them.


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## FireGS

Peter Satera said:


>


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## Toecutter

FireGS said:


>


I would be very surprised if the new libraries were priced below $500. The LEGATO libraries cost around $300... Pacific and Voyage have full sets of articulations, dynamics and Jasper even said he was going to do some minor noise reduction (sacrilegious) so the last one will probably add at least another $500 to the final price XD I'm thinking $800 for Pacific and $1600 for Voyage. No more mr. nice Jasper XD


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## yiph2

I'm guessing $1600 for Strings for Voyage alone


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## Simon Ravn

Amazing stuff!!


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## FireGS

Toecutter said:


> I would be very surprised if the new libraries were priced below $500. The LEGATO libraries cost around $300... Pacific and Voyage have full sets of articulations, dynamics and Jasper even said he was going to do some minor noise reduction (sacrilegious) so the last one will probably add at least another $500 to the final price XD I'm thinking $800 for Pacific and $1600 for Voyage. No more mr. nice Jasper XD


Probably right. I'm speaking personally, but I've really fallen for the smaller ensemble size sound lately, and I think Voyage is going to be more up my alley than Pacific will be, just in terms of ensemble sound. That said, I really like Performance Samples (generally), and I'm excited to follow this library regardless.


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## Saxer

mikeh-375 said:


> ...guys I seem to remember there was a compatibility prob with Logic, is this still the case?


No. It was Kontakt 5 in AU format that took more CPU than the VST version. Meanwhile in Kontakt 6 it's fine.


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## Toecutter

FireGS said:


> Probably right. I'm speaking personally, but I've really fallen for the smaller ensemble size sound lately, and I think Voyage is going to be more up my alley than Pacific will be, just in terms of ensemble sound. That said, I really like Performance Samples (generally), and I'm excited to follow this library regardless.


I also prefer a smaller sound, if Performance Samples really take care of the noise and quirks, Voyage might be the one for me.


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## Wunderhorn

If no _divisi_ is provided, large sections don't make a lot of sense to me. Stacking for chords or lines of counterpoint just gets too much out of balance.


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## gst98

Toecutter said:


> I would be very surprised if the new libraries were priced below $500. The LEGATO libraries cost around $300... Pacific and Voyage have full sets of articulations, dynamics and Jasper even said he was going to do some minor noise reduction (sacrilegious) so the last one will probably add at least another $500 to the final price XD I'm thinking $800 for Pacific and $1600 for Voyage. No more mr. nice Jasper XD


He said this will be 'no more than a grand'. And to be fair, if it did cost a grand, that wouldn't be bad value in comparison to BSS or JXL considering the content.

Yeah, I thought Voyage would be around $1500, but he said he isn't done recording so who knows how much more he's gonna do. I do hope there will be an 'upgrade from Vista' though.


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## mikeh-375

Saxer said:


> No. It was Kontakt 5 in AU format that took more CPU than the VST version. Meanwhile in Kontakt 6 it's fine.


cool thanx @Saxer but you do realise your post implies me having to spend money...damn you...


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## Toecutter

gst98 said:


> I do hope there will be an 'upgrade from Vista' though.


That's one thing Performance Samples never fails to deliver, always have good intro prices and loyalty discounts.


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## Project Anvil

I don't know how he deals with that many samples. I'd go nuts. I could barely keep my stuff together when I made my own tri-tone sampled piano, and that's way, way less samples than what he's dealing with.

I do think I slightly prefer the sound of Voyage though. The current Pacific demos have a slightly dark sound and one of the reasons I got into the (string) sound of PF is because, like OT, they've got strings with a very nice more classical/concert string sound.


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## Eptesicus

Sounding very good. Sounds like it will be too expensive for my wallet though :(


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## Wolf68

I'm healed from GAS. I'm fine. dunno why I am lurking around here...


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## prodigalson

FireGS said:


> Probably right. I'm speaking personally, but I've really fallen for the smaller ensemble size sound lately, and I think Voyage is going to be more up my alley than Pacific will be, just in terms of ensemble sound. That said, I really like Performance Samples (generally), and I'm excited to follow this library regardless.


Im confused. I thought Voyage was the name of the full orchestral project and assumed Pacific was just the string module. are they different products?


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## FireGS

prodigalson said:


> Im confused. I thought Voyage was the name of the full orchestral project and assumed Pacific was just the string module. are they different products?


Totally different. Pacific is symphonic string size. Voyage is smaller size.


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## gst98

prodigalson said:


> Im confused. I thought Voyage was the name of the full orchestral project and assumed Pacific was just the string module. are they different products?


Yes, Pacific is recorded in a different room with symphonic sizes. Bread and butter articulations up to 14 dynamics. pppppp-fff, but he said it sounds fairly aggressive.

Voyage is chamber-sized, but sounds much bigger, like Vista. Much more experimental, and softer, up to 15 dynamics (so far)


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## X-Bassist

No wonder he is discontinuing Con Moto... it's already confusing with Strings just released, Strings about to be released, and demos of strings down the road... to be released. I think he needs to do something besides strings!

And at this point, if he doesn't have multiple teams of people on this, he's already nuts.


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## RonOrchComp

Tinesaeriel said:


> I know it's been discussed a little in the Voyage thread, but I decided it might be worth making its own thread:
> 
> Based on this play-list of samples written in super-early pre-alpha, _ESPECIALLY_ the legato: This is sounding to be SUPER promising, after so many disappointing symphonic-sized releases as of late. The mix on all the example pieces posted so far are _really _dark and muddy, but still, this is super early pre-alpha noodling done by Jasper, so it should be expected that it's not going to sound well-mixed straight outta the gate.
> 
> Still, though for a symphonic-sized string library, the sound is very detailed and the legato sounds to be super astounding right outta the gate, and the vibrato isn't super heavy, either. This might be my next purchase, honestly, just off these super early noodlings.



I am a big fan of the way Jasper does things, but those legato transitions do not sound good at all. Especially the few from 08 - 12.

Ok, it's alpha, I get it. I am just surprised that so many of you think it sounds good - it doesn't. At least not yet.


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## borisb2

love the sound so far ..


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## JDK88

All of these string libraries are nice, but I'd like to see Jasper work some of that magic on woodwinds.


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## muziksculp

Tinesaeriel said:


> after so many disappointing symphonic-sized releases as of late


Hi @Tinesaeriel ,

Thanks for the heads up on these new Performance Samples *Pacific - Symphonic Strings*.

Is it part of the upcoming Performance Samples Voyage Orchestra ?

They sound very good, and I also noticed that the Legato-Police has given a seal of approval to the legatos. Which is quite a tough thing to accomplish here on VI-C 

Spitfire Symphonic Strings, OT-Berlin Symphonic Strings, and VSL Synchron Strings Pro are all great sounding, but I'm always excited to have more Strings Libraries, non of them is disappointing for me, but that doesn't mean they are perfect, and non of them is, or will be perfect, not even upcoming libraries.

I'm always excited, and look forward to listen, and maybe use Performance Samples New Pacific Symphonic Strings, and any others who are going to be out this year.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Getsumen

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Tinesaeriel ,
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on these new Performance Samples *Pacific - Symphonic Strings*.
> 
> Is it part of the upcoming Performance Samples Voyage Orchestra ?
> 
> They sound very good, and I also noticed that the Legato-Police has given a seal of approval to the legatos. Which is quite a tough thing to accomplish here on VI-C
> 
> Spitfire Symphonic Strings, OT-Berlin Symphonic Strings, and VSL Synchron Strings Pro are all great sounding, but I'm always excited to have more Strings Libraries, non of them is disappointing for me, but that doesn't mean they are perfect, and non of them is, or will be perfect, not even upcoming libraries.
> 
> I'm always excited, and look forward to listen, and maybe use Performance Samples New Pacific Symphonic Strings, and any others who are going to be out this year.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


They're two separate libraries


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## muziksculp

Getsumen said:


> They're two separate libraries


OH.. OK, Thanks for letting me know. 

He must be a super workaholic developer, making a symphonic Strings Library, while developing another line of Orchestral Library with all the sections. That's a ton of work for a small developer. I wonder how he is able to manage all this ?


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## muziksculp

Oh.. forgot to ask. 

Any info. regarding when Pacific Symph. Strings will be released ?


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## Getsumen

muziksculp said:


> OH.. OK, Thanks for letting me know.
> 
> He must be a super workaholic developer, making a symphonic Strings Library, while developing another line of Orchestral Library with all the sections. That's a ton of work for a small developer. I wonder how he is able to manage all this ?


Yeah lol I was super surprised when he announced Voyage, full lib...
and then released angry woodwinds, brass, and now pacific (soon?)


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## artinro

muziksculp said:


> OH.. OK, Thanks for letting me know.
> 
> He must be a super workaholic developer, making a symphonic Strings Library, while developing another line of Orchestral Library with all the sections. That's a ton of work for a small developer. I wonder how he is able to manage all this ?


 I speak with Jasper a fair bit. He is definitely a workaholic....7 days a week into the wee hours of the morning. Obsessive (in a good way) about his projects. Seems to me that working on libraries consumes a significant portion of his waking life (and likely also a significant portion of his sleep too


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## muziksculp

artinro said:


> I speak with Jasper a fair bit. He is definitely a workaholic....7 days a week into the wee hours of the morning. Obsessive (in a good way) about his projects. Seems to me that working on libraries consumes a significant portion of his waking life (and likely also a significant portion of his sleep too


Interesting. That's what I was expecting. 

Well, at least he makes some time to speak with you.  

Any idea when this Symphonic Strings Library will be released ?


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## Snarf

Here are some things Jasper has said about this library on facebook:

Q: Is it related to Voyage?
A: Completely unrelated - just an interim project. Voyage strings (at least what has been rec. so far is 5-4-3-3 like Vista, whereas Pacific is 16-12-10-8). Pacific is recorded in a bigger room as well and is a comprehensive string library with a classical, fairly aggressive vibe - but it is not as experimental and comprehensive as Voyage strings. They are very highly dynamic.


Q: Will it be released before Voyage?
A: Much sooner - I'm relatively close to the finish line with Pacific.


Q: Articulations?
A: Tremolos, spicc, pizz, marcatos, trills, sordinos, sustain+legatos, harmonics (with plenty of dynamics), and FX. Up to 14 dynamics.


Q: 14 dynamic layers accross the board?
A: up to means that’s the limit, so in the case of Pacific, The patch with the most dynamics has 14 dynamics. There can be diminishing returns on some things a good bit before you get in the vicinity of 14, but it is articulation dependent because it doesn’t make sense to get uniform dynamics for all articulations. Voyage Str has up to 15 dynamics


Q: Price?
A: Pacific won’t be more than a grand


Q: Other sections?
A: Pacific is just strings. I will see what else may accompany it in the future


Q: Seperate Vln 1 & 2?
A: No, just one set. I did a 3 violins overlay though


Q: Incredible sound and if the playability is like Vista this is an instant purchase!
A: I'm finding that the playability is more pleasing than Vista - this is one of, if not my favorite halls to record in and it handles legato pretty well. The library will be done very soon.

Lastly, I don't know where he said it, but I recall reading that the legato's were the least finished aspect of the library.

------- UPDATE -----------

Q: Do you have a date of release?
A: I'm trying to challenge myself to get the library done in 6 wks - sessions were earlier this month.

Q: Will it have rebowing samples too?
A: same note rebowing likely


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## AudioLoco

Snarf said:


> Here are some things Jasper has said about this library on facebook:
> 
> Q: Is it related to Voyage?
> 
> Q: Will it be released before Voyage?
> 
> Q: Articulations?
> 
> Q: 14 dynamic layers accross the board?
> 
> Q: Price?
> 
> Q: Other sections?
> 
> Q: Seperate Vln 1 & 2?
> 
> Q: Incredible sound and if the playability is like Vista this is an instant purchase!
> 
> 
> Lastly, I don't know where he said it, but I recall reading that the legato's were the least finished aspect of the library.


"....Playability MORE pleasing then Vista...."?!
Can't wait!!!


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## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Interesting. That's what I was expecting.
> 
> Well, at least he makes some time to speak with you.
> 
> Any idea when this Symphonic Strings Library will be released ?


My understanding is that he’s aiming for releasing it by the end of May, but it was only recorded a few weeks ago, so there’s more work to do.


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## amorphosynthesis

Snarf said:


> A: Pacific won’t be more than a grand


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## Lionel Schmitt

RonOrchComp said:


> I am a big fan of the way Jasper does things, but those legato transitions do not sound good at all. Especially the few from 08 - 12.
> 
> Ok, it's alpha, I get it. I am just surprised that so many of you think it sounds good - it doesn't. At least not yet.


I'm glad we finally have someone who can tell everyone what sounds good and what doesn't. Man, we're all really dumb to like something that is actually bad, according to your fully objective divine judgement. 
Thanks for that. I'm cured and will avoid this library.


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## Pianolando

I actually think it sounded great,very natural sound and the legato not as bumpy as Vista, which was a bit too much for my taste. 2nd violins would have been amazing but this is interesting to me nonetheless. Looking forward to hearing a walkthrough when it’s out!


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## Casiquire

Isn't the entire point of this forum to share our opinions of libraries? I'm confused why we'd react that way to a comment saying they're surprised to see positive reactions to something they really don't like.


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## Eptesicus

Casiquire said:


> Isn't the entire point of this forum to share our opinions of libraries? I'm confused why we'd react that way to a comment saying they're surprised to see positive reactions to something they really don't like.



I find this forum can be a bit funny like that sometimes. I get the impression that some people like everyone to be 100% positive and talk about how great every developer and library is. 

I have a very different mindset I think. I think praise really has to be earnt and that if everything is supposedly wonderful...then nothing is.


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## gst98

Casiquire said:


> Isn't the entire point of this forum to share our opinions of libraries? I'm confused why we'd react that way to a comment saying they're surprised to see positive reactions to something they really don't like.


I agree, but he never said he didn't like it. He said it sounded bad, and that he was surprised people liked it. Ron was the one telling people their opinions were wrong.


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## Eptesicus

gst98 said:


> I agree, but he never said he didn't like it. He said it sounded bad, and that he was surprised people liked it. Ron was the one telling people their opinions were wrong.



I think the trouble with Internet forums is that everyone is expecting everyone to write "in my opinion" in front of everything. When, really it's obvious that it is just that persons opinion.


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## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> I agree, but he never said he didn't like it. He said it sounded bad, and that he was surprised people liked it. Ron was the one telling people their opinions were wrong.


That's just silly though. It's clearly an opinion. Wanna know how quick I'd get tired of every single opinion starting with "in my opinion"? I'd have to say it like three times per sentence. These are all opinions.


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## Mike Fox

The legato sounds really good, imo. Not sure I like the tone though (too old school/vintage for my liking).

Also, did I hear some phasing going on?


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## Mike Fox

Casiquire said:


> That's just silly though. It's clearly an opinion. Wanna know how quick I'd get tired of every single opinion starting with "in my opinion"? I'd have to say it like three times per sentence. These are all opinions.


I agree, but some people actually come across as if what they’re saying is fact, so it’s not a bad thing to call them out on it every so often.

I’ve actually had conversations with people on here who claim that only they and a select few are able to distinguish good music from bad music.

They’re the ones who recognize their opinions as “facts”.


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## Toecutter

Casiquire said:


> That's just silly though. It's clearly an opinion. Wanna know how quick I'd get tired of every single opinion starting with "in my opinion"? I'd have to say it like three times per sentence. These are all opinions.


Let's see


RonOrchComp said:


> I am a big fan of the way Jasper does things, but those legato transitions do not sound good at all. Especially the few from 08 - 12.
> 
> Ok, it's alpha, I get it. I am just surprised that so many of you think it sounds good - it doesn't. At least not yet.


That's CLEARLY an opinion ffs... didn't deserve the petty slap in the face. Not to my surprise, it was the same guy who wrote a demo for Performance Samples before and did the exact same thing on the Vista thread. Shills man, shills everywhere


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## X-Bassist

I’m surprised no one noticed this sentence from Jasper...

“Pacific is recorded in a bigger room as well and is a comprehensive string library with a classical, fairly aggressive vibe - but it is not as experimental and comprehensive as Voyage strings. They are very highly dynamic.”

So Pacific is a comprehensive, large string library with a fairly aggressive vibe.

Yet Voyage has more dynamics and is more experimental and comprehensive?

Looking at the arts for Pacific I can see it’s like every other string library, yet a much larger size. But do composers really want a large orchestra with no divisi? (Maybe on a trailer?... yet isn’t that just filling the frequency spectrum with very little return?)

I think large aggressive orchestra sounds good on digital paper, but when you sit down to write do you really think “I want all the violins to play this one note!”... really? To me that’s what makes this a bit limited without divisi, or at least some 2nd violins.

But that’s all fine, at $900 or so I’d have to wait for VSTbuzz to have an 80% off sale on them in 2026 anyway... or grab them at the discontinuation sale of 2023!😄

Edit: Apologies to Jasper, I’m just glad I picked up all your products when you were a small developer a few years ago. Now your the hardest working man in Sampledom! Obviously you developed a team to get this done, congrats on keeping up with crazy schedules just to give us some cool tools. Stay blessed.


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## gst98

Eptesicus said:


> I think the trouble with Internet forums is that everyone is expecting everyone to write "in my opinion" in front of everything. When, really it's obvious that it is just that persons opinion.





Casiquire said:


> That's just silly though. It's clearly an opinion. Wanna know how quick I'd get tired of every single opinion starting with "in my opinion"? I'd have to say it like three times per sentence. These are all opinions.


Obviously that would be ridiculous, and I never said people should do that. Most things are just taken as opion. But he went out of his way to speak in absolutes and made a point to say people were wrong for liking it. 

"those legato transitions do not sound good at all" = clearly intended as an opinion

"I am just surprised that so many of you think it sounds good - it doesn't" - an absolute. 

It is quite literally the opposite of an opinion. You say you'd get tired of having to state it was opinion, but he actually had to _add_ words to the sentence to make it _not an opinion_.


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## Toecutter

X-Bassist said:


> Looking at the arts for Pacific I can see it’s like every other string library, yet a much larger size. But do composers really want a large orchestra with no divisi? (Maybe on a trailer?... yet isn’t that just filling the frequency spectrum with very little return?)


That's a good point but large strings can do a lot of things depending on how and who is sampling them... HZ strings after the update became one of my favorite and definitely most underrated libraries, it can do so much more than that big sound it's associated with. Pacific sounds amazing from the demos I heard, yes it's a big sound but I can hear a lot of detail in those dynamic ranges. And at the other end of the spectrum you have OT Berlin Symphonic that to me sounds very limited like a Roland rompler XD


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## gst98

X-Bassist said:


> I’m surprised no one noticed this sentence from Jasper...
> 
> “Pacific is recorded in a bigger room as well and is a comprehensive string library with a classical, fairly aggressive vibe - but it is not as experimental and comprehensive as Voyage strings. They are very highly dynamic.”
> 
> So Pacific is a comprehensive, large string library with a fairly aggressive vibe.
> 
> Yet Voyage has more dynamics and is more experimental and comprehensive?
> 
> Looking at the arts for Pacific I can see it’s like every other string library, yet a much larger size. But do composers really want a large orchestra with no divisi? (Maybe on a trailer?... yet isn’t that just filling the frequency spectrum with very little return?)
> 
> I think large aggressive orchestra sounds good on digital paper, but when you sit down to write do you really think “I want all the violins to play this one note!”... really? To me that’s what makes this a bit limited without divisi, or at least some 2nd violins.
> 
> But that’s all fine, at $900 or so I’d have to wait for VSTbuzz to have an 80% off sale on them in 2026 anyway... or grab them at the discontinuation sale of 2023!😄
> 
> Edit: Apologies to Jasper, I’m just glad I picked up all your products when you were a small developer a few years ago. Now your the hardest working man in Sampledom! Obviously you developed a team to get this done, congrats on keeping up with crazy schedules just to give us some cool tools. Stay blessed.


I think a lot of his customers are trailer composers to be fair. But the demos also go down to pppppp so I think it will have plenty of low dynamics.


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## Lionel Schmitt

Casiquire said:


> That's just silly though. It's clearly an opinion. Wanna know how quick I'd get tired of every single opinion starting with "in my opinion"? I'd have to say it like three times per sentence. These are all opinions.


if you follow "I'm surprised people think it sounds good" with "It doesn't", then this sounds like you think your opinion is right and can disprove other peoples opinion. You are saying they are wrong to like them.

Just a matter of formulation. No need to always use IMO. If I say something stronger that may sound like I think it's a fact (like in this case) then I'll use it.

But don't listen to me - I'm just a shill because I wrote some PerfPerc demos hahaha...
Jasper is the last one who would use shills - he always lets his products speak and even risks loosing sales by putting down the issues in his libraries.
What an absurd idea... XD
(to be clear Toecutter said that, not Casiquire)


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## Toecutter

DarkestShadow said:


> But don't listen to me - I'm just a shill because I wrote some PerfPerc demos hahaha...


Solos of the Sea too! XD Nah it's more how you come out of nowhere to take a jab on anyone that dares to say something negative about Performance Samples libraries. you were VERY condescending on the Vista thread and I remember you saying you received that one too. My point is, let people voice their opinions without the petty distracting jabs. We can all benefit from an unbiased discussion and I'm interested in hearing why Ron strongly dislikes the legato. I'm sure Jasper is reading and could use the information to improve Pacific... hi Jasper XD


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## Casiquire

This whole conversation is so pedantic and unnecessary. I really don't think we need a rulebook about what constitutes an opinion and what doesn't when expressing whether something sounds bad or good. I'm not consulting a rubric when I post my opinions either.

On the subject of the library though, i do think it sounds pretty good to my ears but I'm even more happy to see PS embracing a more full library than the legato-only ones. That actually makes them interesting to me!


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## Lionel Schmitt

Toecutter said:


> Solos of the Sea too! XD Nah it's more how you come out of nowhere to take a jab on anyone that dares to say something negative about Performance Samples libraries. you were VERY condescending on the Vista thread and I remember you saying you received that one too. My point is, let people voice their opinions without the petty distracting jabs. We can all benefit from an unbiased discussion and I'm interested in hearing why Ron strongly dislikes the legato. I'm sure Jasper is reading and could use the information to improve Pacific... hi Jasper XD


Yea, I'm sure you have personal problems with me because I was active in a forum you hate very much, so I'm not surprised you see my posts that way. 
(just an old Drama Zone story, will not elaborate on that at all)

I'd like to add that I also posted almost 25 minutes of raw playing with all the Vista patches without any comment so people can get a better idea of the library, for better or worse. (like I did with other libs too,

The only reason is responded here (in a tongue in cheek way) was that it sounded like he was saying people are wrong to like it. Which is something that annoys me in all areas of life.

btw, Solos of the Sea was just a random improv I did for the thread like the Vista ones, which PS then posted in soundcloud.

And yea - I'm a beta tester so I receive every library I beta test - which ironically is basically me complaining about aspects and technical issues of the libraries directly to Jasper haha XD
Of course it's not quite that simple, just kind of a funny thing to think about when you're saying I jump on everyone who says something bad about PS libraries - I probably point out more issues than everyone in all threads combined XD


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## lettucehat

Rebutting somebody who basically informed everyone their ears were wrong isn't "out of nowhere" and it was, at worst, at the same level of rude as the original comment. But not really as rude.


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## Mike Fox

DarkestShadow said:


> Yea, I'm sure you have personal problems with me because I was active in a forum you hate very much, so I'm not surprised you see my posts that way.
> (just an old Drama Zone story, will not elaborate on that at all)
> 
> I'd like to add that I also posted almost 25 minutes of raw playing with all the Vista patches without any comment so people can get a better idea of the library, for better or worse.
> 
> The only reason is responded here (in a tongue in cheek way) was that it sounded like he was saying people are wrong to like it. Which is something that annoys me in all areas of life.
> 
> btw, Solos of the Sea was just a random improv I did for the thread, which PS then posted in soundcloud.
> 
> And yea - I'm a beta tester so I receive every library I beta test - which ironically is basically me complaining about aspects and technical issues of the libraries directly to Jasper haha XD
> Of course it's not quite that simple, just kind of a funny thing to think about when you're saying I jump on everyone who says something bad about PS libraries when I probably point out more issues than everyone in all threads combined XD


I was once accused of being a shill on here. 

I made a thread looking for Synthwave libs, and a developer chimed in and said “try ours!”. The developer gave it to me for free, and I ended up loving the library (i still use it as a go-to), but because I expressed my admiration for the library I was accused of setting the whole thing up. 

The accusation was pretty silly, to say the least.


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## Drundfunk

This tone is to die for. Count me in!


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## oooooooooooooooooh

Hmmmm, I'm curious to know more about Voyage strings, especially since he said Voyage is more "experimental". I wonder if he means in terms of articulations or in terms of sampling technique.


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## artinro

X-Bassist said:


> Edit: Apologies to Jasper, I’m just glad I picked up all your products when you were a small developer a few years ago. Now your the hardest working man in Sampledom! Obviously you developed a team to get this done, congrats on keeping up with crazy schedules just to give us some cool tools. Stay blessed.


As far as I know Jasper is a generally a one-man band in terms of building the libraries. The man just works crazy hours and is always either sampling something or programming it or both. He did mention to me that the Pacific sessions were very fine-tuned in order to make post-pro a bit more straightforward and streamlined....hence the quick trip from recording to release.


----------



## X-Bassist

gst98 said:


> I think a lot of his customers are trailer composers to be fair. But the demos also go down to pppppp so I think it will have plenty of low dynamics.


Oh, of course, I’ve always wanted pppppp...makes Tundra’s ‘edge of silence’ seem like a cliff of screams by comparison. When will they just record a library of the instruments in a room with no players? pppppppp?... please... 😄


----------



## X-Bassist

artinro said:


> As far as I know Jasper is a generally a one-man band in terms of building the libraries. The man just works crazy hours and is always either sampling something or programming it or both. He did mention to me that the Pacific sessions were very fine-tuned in order to make post-pro a bit more straightforward and streamlined....hence the quick trip from recording to release.


Nope! Call me doubting Thomas but until I hear Jasper say himself he works alone I don’t believe it. Do you know how many hours of work just editing the samples for one of these would take? more time than one person has, much less multiple libraries.

I personally know a sample developer here that IS a one man band and works hard, he can get about 2 libraries done a year, and none of them have as many samples as Vista, much much less Voyage or this new one.

Plus the perc libraries, shorts libraries, and others all out this past year? PLUS he helped Audio Ollie with HIS libraries? Come on! Jasper WAS a one man band (maybe) in 2019, but in 2021? He has at least a team of 5 or 6, perhaps multiple teams of 2 or 3, to get this kind of output, and that’s not counting recording engineers, mixers, promotion, website work.....

It’s like saying a composer that does a dozen films a year does everything himself... the numbers just don’t add up... unless he’s next generation’s andriod Data... and works without stopping.... maybe...😄


----------



## gst98

X-Bassist said:


> Oh, of course, I’ve always wanted pppppp...makes Tundra’s ‘edge of silence’ seem like a cliff of screams by comparison. When will they just record a library of the instruments in a room with no players? pppppppp?... please... 😄



I’m not sure if you thought I was making a joke, but that is what Jaspers demo say! He said it is pppppp-fff.


----------



## gst98

X-Bassist said:


> Nope! Call me doubting Thomas but until I hear Jasper say himself he works alone I don’t believe it. Do you know how many hours of work just editing the samples for one of these would take? more time than one person has, much less multiple libraries.
> 
> I personally know a sample developer here that IS a one man band and works hard, he can get about 2 libraries done a year, and none of them have as many samples as Vista, much much less Voyage or this new one.
> 
> Plus the perc libraries, shorts libraries, and others all out this past year? PLUS he helped Audio Ollie with HIS libraries? Come on! Jasper WAS a one man band (maybe) in 2019, but in 2021? He has at least a team of 5 or 6, perhaps multiple teams of 2 or 3, to get this kind of output, and that’s not counting recording engineers, mixers, promotion, website work.....



If I recall, he answered that on Facebook a few weeks ago and he said he is still solo. 

Of course he has engineers and a conductor, but he doesn’t do promo, has a very simple website and probably mixes himself.


----------



## artinro

X-Bassist said:


> Nope! Call me doubting Thomas but until I hear Jasper say himself he works alone I don’t believe it. Do you know how many hours of work just editing the samples for one of these would take? more time than one person has, much less multiple libraries.
> 
> I personally know a sample developer here that IS a one man band and works hard, he can get about 2 libraries done a year, and none of them have as many samples as Vista, much much less Voyage or this new one.
> 
> Plus the perc libraries, shorts libraries, and others all out this past year? PLUS he helped Audio Ollie with HIS libraries? Come on! Jasper WAS a one man band (maybe) in 2019, but in 2021? He has at least a team of 5 or 6, perhaps multiple teams of 2 or 3, to get this kind of output, and that’s not counting recording engineers, mixers, promotion, website work.....
> 
> It’s like saying a composer that does a dozen films a year does everything himself... the numbers just don’t add up... unless he’s next generation’s andriod Data... and works without stopping.... maybe...😄


Keep an eye out for an upcoming interview Jasper is doing. You'll hear a lot from the man himself about his process. I think you'll be surprised and intrigued.


----------



## FireGS




----------



## FireGS




----------



## artomatic

Really looking forward to this one. Sounds so wonderful to my ears!
Bring it, Jasper!!


----------



## Peter Satera

This sounds really nice. Very full.


----------



## FireGS




----------



## Werty

FireGS said:


>



so freaking realistic, and lovely music. I'm impressed.


----------



## Kony

At this point, I'm wondering whether it's still worth getting Con Moto before it's discontinued this Friday.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

FireGS said:


>



That is beautiful, especially when that soaring line comes in at the end.


----------



## muziksculp

So Pacific is another specialized Legato Strings library ? or it will have the other usual articulations, i.e. shorts, tremolo, Pizz., ? 

I know Voyage is a more comprehensive library, with smaller sections, although Pacific sounds really good at Pre-Alpha.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

muziksculp said:


> So Pacific is another specialized Legato Strings library ? or it will have the other usual articulations, i.e. shorts, tremolo, Pizz., ?
> 
> I know Voyage is a more comprehensive library, with smaller sections, although Pacific sounds really good at Pre-Alpha.


I believe it will be Jasper's take on a symphonic comprehensive strings library. So legato, trems, shorts, all the jazz.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> So Pacific is another specialized Legato Strings library ? or it will have the other usual articulations, i.e. shorts, tremolo, Pizz., ?
> 
> I know Voyage is a more comprehensive library, with smaller sections, although Pacific sounds really good at Pre-Alpha.


Pacific is a comprehensive library. Not just specialized legato.


----------



## lettucehat

Legato choir huh?


----------



## Drundfunk

FireGS said:


>



I feel like Jasper is singlehandedly changing the sample library market forever. This just sounds......


----------



## CT

This guy is nuts (and a very lovely individual)....


----------



## mikeh-375

gst98 said:


> I’m not sure if you thought I was making a joke, but that is what Jaspers demo say! He said it is pppppp-fff.


...remember though that there is actually no such dynamic as pppppp in reality, it is just an ideal, a psychological dynamic for the player to aspire to in performance. One can just as easily write ppp or perhaps pppp, no real practical need for anymore iss,iss,issimo's in ensemble writing as 4 p's will have the same effect.
That's not to take anything away from Performance Samples...I mean on the strength of what I've heard so far, I'm in.


----------



## CT

My best music is all _pppppppp_. It's totally inaudible.


----------



## WhiteNoiz

Digging the tone quite a bit:



Thought about that instanly when hearing the lead line.


----------



## JGRaynaud

oooooooooooooooooh said:


> Hmmmm, I'm curious to know more about Voyage strings, especially since he said Voyage is more "experimental". I wonder if he means in terms of articulations or in terms of sampling technique.


Voyage is a smaller size and has more articulations (i.e. sul pont trem etc).. and more experimental things like this


----------



## Peter Satera

Adding to what has been said.
Q. Do you have a date of release?
A. I'm trying to challenge myself to get the library done in 6 wks - sessions were earlier this month.


----------



## Snarf

Peter Satera said:


> Adding to what has been said.
> Q. Do you have a date of release?
> A. I'm trying to challenge myself to get the library done in 6 wks - sessions were earlier this month.


Good catch, I've updated my Q&A post. Another one:

Q: Will it have rebowing samples too?
A: same note rebowing likely


----------



## molemac

X-Bassist said:


> It’s like saying a composer that does a dozen films a year does everything himself... the numbers just don’t add up... unless he’s next generation’s andriod Data... and works without stopping.... maybe...😄


Outrageous allegation, Hans will be down on you like a ton of bricks


----------



## Hendrixon

Eptesicus said:


> I think the trouble with Internet forums is that everyone is expecting everyone to write "in my opinion" in front of everything. When, really it's obvious that it is just that persons opinion.


+100000000000... 0


----------



## LamaRose

WhiteNoiz said:


> Digging the tone quite a bit:
> 
> 
> 
> Thought about that instanly when hearing the lead line.



Yeah, Vista and Pacific nail that Barry vibe... J Williams as well.


----------



## Go To 11

Mike T said:


> My best music is all _pppppppp_. It's totally inaudible.


My favourite dynamic is n.


----------



## Hendrixon

molemac said:


> Outrageous allegation, Hans will be down on you like a ton of bricks


Did you just call Hans fat?


----------



## Mike Fox

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> I believe it will be Jasper's take on a symphonic comprehensive strings library. So legato, trems, shorts, all the jazz.


Chris, what do you know that we don’t?


----------



## muziksculp

So, We can expect : 

1. *Voyage* , which is a full chamber size orchestra. 
2. *Pacific* , which is a full Symphonic size orchestra. 

WOW ! Those are two major projects he seems to be working on simultaneously.


----------



## Mike Fox

I just hope Pacific can pull off fast, soaring lines. Sounds like it does the slow, romantic stuff in spades, but is that where it maxes out?


----------



## gst98

Mike Fox said:


> I just hope Pacific can pull off fast, soaring lines. Sounds like it does the slow, romantic stuff in spades, but is that where it maxes out?



All the demos of vista are for slow writing, but it’s very capable of fast legato lines. So I would be surprised if this can’t.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

Mike Fox said:


> Chris, what do you know that we don’t?


Honestly nothing I swear... I just get excited like everyone else XD


----------



## BasariStudios

Now i am confused, there was Voyage and now Pacific?
Anyone willing to explain?


----------



## lettucehat

BasariStudios said:


> Now i am confused, there was Voyage and now Pacific?
> Anyone willing to explain?


Voyage, comprehensive orchestra, chamber strings.
Pacific, comprehensive orchestral strings.


----------



## BasariStudios

lettucehat said:


> Voyage, comprehensive orchestra, chamber strings.
> Pacific, comprehensive orchestral strings.


Thank You


----------



## SquirrelMan

molemac said:


> Outrageous allegation, Hans will be down on you like a ton of bricks


He'll never be safe. Hans has like 40 ghostwriters in every city.


----------



## servandus

lettucehat said:


> Legato choir huh?


----------



## lettucehat

servandus said:


>



Ooh, a little bit of everything towards the end there. I see what you're doing.


----------



## FireGS

I'll take that solo cello. Plz & thx.


----------



## ZeeCount

Just the Pacific strings on their own


----------



## FireGS

So are we all just refreshing Jasper's feed hoping to post a new track first?

...or is it just me?


----------



## CT

FireGS said:


> I'll take that solo cello. Plz & thx.


Yeah....


----------



## FireGS




----------



## Casiquire

What's the deal with the choirs? Is that a separate library entirely or is it part of Voyage or something?


----------



## Getsumen

Casiquire said:


> What's the deal with the choirs? Is that a separate library entirely or is it part of Voyage or something?


Voyage so far has no choir listed so I assume it might be a future thing


----------



## FireGS




----------



## Johnny

FireGS said:


>



This is ridiculous! Take all of my money please!!!!! I need nothing else! : )


----------



## Tinesaeriel

servandus said:


>



...

...Well f**k me, there goes my money. Not even gonna try and pass on this one. This sounds frickin' GORGEOUS. Super detailed while still be lush and huge sounding. 

Jasper, you mad genius, I think you've done it.


----------



## ZeeCount

Tinesaeriel said:


> ...
> 
> ...Well f**k me, there goes my money. Not even gonna try and pass on this one. This sounds frickin' GORGEOUS. Super detailed while still be lush and huge sounding.
> 
> Jasper, you mad genius, I think you've done it.


I think at this point Jasper has proven that anything he releases is a must buy. 

This sounds like the logical continuation of Vista. My wallet is ready!


----------



## JGRaynaud

En extract that Jasper posted on Soundcloud. Same demo as before, processed but this time just the strings


----------



## Toecutter

FireGS said:


>



mmmm I don't know, listening on headphones I can hear a lot of abrupt bumps in dynamics changes, I don't like this one. Shorts are all jumpy too, I get what he was going for but it doesn't sound natural to me. I hear this issue in other demos too. Having Vista flashbacks... tone is great but too many quirks. Curious to hear how this will improve as we get closer to release... come on beta team, help the man!


----------



## Pedro Camacho

Fantastic, Jasper!!


----------



## Getsumen

Toecutter said:


> mmmm I don't know, listening on headphones I can hear a lot of abrupt bumps in dynamics changes, I don't like this one. Shorts are all jumpy too, I get what he was going for but it doesn't sound natural to me. I hear this issue in other demos too. Having Vista flashbacks... tone is great but too many quirks. Curious to hear how this will improve as we get closer to release... come on beta team, help the man!


Don't want to be a downer but yeah I do agree it is a little bit bumpier than I would like. I presume that even though there aren't any drastic volume changes, with up to 14 dynamics even looking at the mod wheel will cause crossfading. Hopefully, the finalized version smoothes it out because the way the lib sounds as a whole is super nice.


----------



## lettucehat

Price updated to $1000 full price, no huge surprise but it's official now. Now for the discounts and intro...


----------



## Werty

Toecutter said:


> mmmm I don't know, listening on headphones I can hear a lot of abrupt bumps in dynamics changes, I don't like this one. Shorts are all jumpy too, I get what he was going for but it doesn't sound natural to me. I hear this issue in other demos too. Having Vista flashbacks... tone is great but too many quirks. Curious to hear how this will improve as we get closer to release... come on beta team, help the man!


These are actually very tiny bumps, I like them as they help to humanize the sound. You will find these nice bumps in every recording.


----------



## Sovereign

While there's much to like about these new demos, there are a couple of moments where I go "hmmm", mainly when I think he's pushing the legatos beyond what they are capable of.


----------



## Scamper

Sounds great so far, but also quite similar to Vista, even if the section is much larger. The sound of Voyage seems a bit more interesting to me though. Pacific seems like the first Performance Samples library, that has more or less the traditional set of articulations, which I do find more pleasant and flexible than the zoo of one trick ponies.

I'm curious about the marcatos though and how flexible they are as shorts. After being used to the 4 different shorts of CSS, I'd rather not settle for one or two, counting the spiccato or maybe the marcatos.

And those 14 dynamic layers. The transitions so far sound pretty good, but I'm wondering about the performance. For sustained notes, the amount of voices will just stack up massively and in a full template, this might just make the difference between hitting the limit of your hardware. I'm all for dynamics though, so I hope it won't be that bad.


----------



## Johnny

This is hard not to like... Dynamic bumps included... What string library do we own that sounds more realistic I guess is what I'm really digging for... And so far I cannot justify any flaws against what I am currently using... It would be very hard to not buy into this...


----------



## Toecutter

Getsumen said:


> Don't want to be a downer but yeah I do agree it is a little bit bumpier than I would like. I presume that even though there aren't any drastic volume changes, with up to 14 dynamics even looking at the mod wheel will cause crossfading. Hopefully, the finalized version smoothes it out because the way the lib sounds as a whole is super nice.


Not a downer, Jasper walks among us like VI Jesus (Hi Jasper XD) and is interested in this sort of feedback. There's a lot to like about Pacific but I'm certain Jasper has a good ear and can notice the issues too, they are too distracting and imo not what a good and cohesive string ensemble sounds like in 2021.

I respect Performance Samples work and want to support this but for $1000 please iron out the quirks. Come on, in the FIRST THREE SECONDS there are TWO weird bumps and a loud noise. I hear this sort of thing in all demos and imo it's unacceptable. Unless people want to keep pretending they are scoring films from the 50s where stuff like this was passable because of other limitations. But in 2021 and a controlled environment like VI? No way!

"you will find nice bumps in every recording" there's a difference between having a nice natural flow and having *friggin king kong sized bumps in every other phrase*. Not long ago I sat down to hear the most successful soundtracks of the 2010s (wanted to compare mixes) and the technical aspect of those recordings is nothing but amazing. Top notch engineering. We came a long way.

"clients don't care or notice" come on not everyone is writing epic trailer music where I agree this would be buried in a wall of sound. I do very exposed work and these noises and bumps wouldn't cut it. I hope PS won't turn a blind eye on such issues and will truly take things to the next level because everything else about this library is to die for. Bye JB XD


----------



## artinro

King Kong sized bumps? It’s honestly difficult to take you seriously when you say things so overly exaggerated.


----------



## Toecutter

artinro said:


> King Kong sized bumps? It’s honestly difficult to take you seriously when you say things so overly exaggerated.


Grab a headphone and listen, it's exactly that. King Kong sized bumps. Semantics. I find it hard to not notice. I know you are Jasper's right hand man and is too emotionality invested but please don't let that cloud your judgment.

Pacific will never reach its apex if you keep rejecting honest feedback and use the way I express myself as an excuse to put my opinions down.


----------



## Evans

Toecutter said:


> Grab a headphone and listen, it's exactly that. King Kong sized bumps. Semantics. I find it hard to not notice. I know you are Jasper's right hand man and is too emotionality invested but please don't let that cloud your judgment.
> 
> Pacific will never reach its apex if you keep rejecting honest feedback and use the way I express myself as an excuse to put my opinions down.


Which track(s) are you talking about? Can you call out a timestamp?

EDIT: never mind, I looked back at your prior post with the quoted track.

Are you absolutely sure you are hearing "bumps," and not the rhythmic strings under the main line?


----------



## artinro

Feedback is fine. Demonstrably false hyperbole isn't constructive.


----------



## Toecutter

Evans said:


> Are you absolutely sure you are hearing "bumps," and not the rhythmic strings under the main line?


I just heard it again, 3 seconds in, huge bump 1.5s, a smaller one next and loud noise. That's 3 seconds in man... I find it very hard to not notice and would hope Jasper can improve it. This is a $1000 flagship library after all!



artinro said:


> Feedback is fine. Demonstrably false hyperbole isn't constructive.


False hyperbole? Chill man, I can talk Pacific all day long (not really) that's the purpose of Vicontrol, but this sudden turn of events and attacks after I simply pointed out isolated things I disliked about the last demo, is simply not my jam. I know you have close contact to the man and is always the first to post "inside information" about Jasper's work and I appreciate that, but I do hope you realize you are doing more harm than good here.


----------



## gst98

Toecutter said:


> Not a downer, Jasper walks among us like VI Jesus (Hi Jasper XD) and is interested in this sort of feedback. There's a lot to like about Pacific but I'm certain Jasper has a good ear and can notice the issues too, they are too distracting and imo not what a good and cohesive string ensemble sounds like in 2021.
> 
> I respect Performance Samples work and want to support this but for $1000 please iron out the quirks. Come on, in the FIRST THREE SECONDS there are TWO weird bumps and a loud noise. I hear this sort of thing in all demos and imo it's unacceptable. Unless people want to keep pretending they are scoring films from the 50s where stuff like this was passable because of other limitations. But in 2021 and a controlled environment like VI? No way!
> 
> "you will find nice bumps in every recording" there's a difference between having a nice natural flow and having *friggin king kong sized bumps in every other phrase*. Not long ago I sat down to hear the most successful soundtracks of the 2010s (wanted to compare mixes) and the technical aspect of those recordings is nothing but amazing. Top notch engineering. We came a long way.
> 
> "clients don't care or notice" come on not everyone is writing epic trailer music where I agree this would be buried in a wall of sound. I do very exposed work and these noises and bumps wouldn't cut it. I hope PS won't turn a blind eye on such issues and will truly take things to the next level because everything else about this library is to die for. Bye JB XD


If you're talking about the exposed demo, those sound like the spiccatos over top of the legato line. In general, I think the spiccs sound a bit weird so far, but the track names say 'pre-alpha', so it's probably too early to scrutinize the tiny details.


----------



## DawdlePuss

Toecutter said:


> I just heard it again, 3 seconds in, huge bump 1.5s, a smaller one next and loud noise. That's 3 seconds in man... I find it very hard to not notice and would hope Jasper can improve it. This is a $1000 flagship library after all!


After your initial post a bit ago, I've listened to that particular section about 15 times with headphones. I do hear a click or something hitting something at a little over 3 seconds, but that I'm not too worried about personally. I think the other thing you are talking about is the spicc rhythms happening at the onset of the piece? To me, it isn't obvious at all that they stick out for any other reason than that they were written that way. They are slightly behind the beat, so they have this dragging feeling that detaches them from the melody, but I personally feel like that was by intention, at least that is what I'm guessing. From my stand point, they were just accented in the piece. I don't hear it is being something wrong with the library, but I think that is very hard to judge from this example.


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder why he decided to not record second violins for Pacific ?


----------



## JGRaynaud

Toecutter said:


> I do very exposed work and these noises and bumps wouldn't cut it.


I guess there is something I don't understand with the word "bumps". I thought you were pointing the noises like "a bow in the section that hits the core of the instrument" but now I see you are making a distinction between noises and bumps. Could you describe a bit what you mean by bumps ? Just so I can understand better the things you're pointing.

Also something that would be great is to know what libraries are the closest to perfection for you (tone or realism).


----------



## Toecutter

gst98 said:


> If you're talking about the exposed demo, those sound like the spiccatos over top of the legato line. In general, I think the spiccs sound a bit weird so far


I think those bumps are really bumps and sound very different than spiccs overlay. Yes I agree there are some oddities in the rhythmic section (I wasn't going to point it out but there you go) where the transients are all over the place. But the first 3 seconds thing is just a small example of something I hear all over the track.



gst98 said:


> but the track names say 'pre-alpha', so it's probably too early to scrutinize the tiny details.


I agree with you but according to the Q&A posted somewhere in this thread:

*Q: Do you have a date of release?*
A: I'm trying to challenge myself to get the library done in 6 wks - sessions were earlier this month.

We are VERY close to release. I wouldn't mind waiting a month or two more in order to have a more polished library, considering Performance Samples' "it is what it is" policy.


----------



## artinro

Toecutter said:


> False hyperbole? Chill man, I can talk Pacific all day long (not really) that's the purpose of Vicontrol, but this sudden turn of events and attacks after I simply pointed out isolated things I disliked about the last demo, is simply not my jam. I know you have close contact to the man and is always the first to post "inside information" about Jasper's work and I appreciate that, but I do hope you realize you are doing more harm than good here.


Toe, you're entitled to your opinion, of course. Feedback is always a great thing. But hyperbole isn't helpful, especially when (as others have pointed out) there's some confusion as to what you're actually calling "bumps." You can write whatever you wish, but I think it would be more constructive if your feedback were a bit more measured, IMHO. 

Also, for the record: I DO test some of Jasper's libraries and I DO chat with him on a regular basis. I also purchase each of those libraries because I am a fan of his work.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

artinro said:


> King Kong sized bumps? It’s honestly difficult to take you seriously when you say things so overly exaggerated.


over here on yamaha hs8's it's pretty jarring. 

it's some sort of weird crossfading... I don't agree with anyone that it sounds more "realistic" because it sounds like two sustains crossfading with a weird spiccato sample in there possibly as well. 

It only happens the first few seconds of the I'll remember this life. He was just pointing out something weird going on with the programming, which is totally fair and useful - and if I must say so, these are things the people testing would ideally point out too. Toe Cutter has a way with words sometimes, but it's still useful feedback.


----------



## Snarf

Toecutter said:


> *Q: Do you have a date of release?*
> A: I'm trying to challenge myself to get the library done in 6 wks - sessions were earlier this month.
> 
> We are VERY close to release. I wouldn't mind waiting a month or two more in order to have a more polished library, considering Performance Samples' "it is what it is" policy.


Keep in mind the library was conceived of and recorded only a few weeks ago. Most demo's were just the raw samples after plopping them into kontakt, before things like take selection, balancing etc.


----------



## artinro

ProfoundSilence said:


> over here on yamaha hs8's it's pretty jarring.
> 
> it's some sort of weird crossfading... I don't agree with anyone that it sounds more "realistic" because it sounds like two sustains crossfading with a weird spiccato sample in there possibly as well.
> 
> It only happens the first few seconds of the I'll remember this life. He was just pointing out something weird going on with the programming, which is totally fair and useful - and if I must say so, these are things the people testing would ideally point out too. Toe Cutter has a way with words sometimes, but it's still useful feedback.


I think anyone would relish useful feedback. But I also still think hyperbole is unhelpful and unserious.

That said, the library is PRE alpha still and, as I understand, he hasn't even done take selection yet. A lot of devs wait until a library is basically out the door before sharing snippets. Jasper likes to share as he works through. I can say for certain that folks like me who've tested for Jasper in the past have NOT been testing as of yet.


----------



## Mike Fox

1K for this? Unless there’s a ton of articulations, off the charts playability, and forgivable imperfections, I’ll put that kind of money elsewhere.

With the amount of string libs currently out there, you’ve gotta do something truly spectacular to grab my attention, and great legato alone ain’t gonna do it.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

artinro said:


> I think anyone would relish useful feedback. But I also still think hyperbole is unhelpful and unserious.
> 
> That said, the library is PRE alpha still and, as I understand, he hasn't even done take selection yet. A lot of devs wait until a library is basically out the door before sharing snippets. Jasper likes to share as he works through. I can say for certain that folks like me who've tested for Jasper in the past have NOT been testing as of yet.


Again, toe cutter has a way with words. Might seem redundant pointing out issues in pre-alpha, but it's no real harm in mentioning that we notice them.


----------



## gst98

Mike Fox said:


> 1K for this? Unless there’s a ton of articulations, off the charts playability, and forgivable imperfections, I’ll put that kind of money elsewhere.
> 
> With the amount of string libs currently out there, you’ve gotta do something truly spectacular to grab my attention, and great legato alone ain’t gonna do it.


14 dynamic layers?


----------



## iMovieShout

At USD1000 I'm of the opinion that VSL's Elite Strings are probably going to be better value (and better quality) and blends well with VSL's other strings libraries as well as 8DIO and Spitfire. VSL also seem to offer about the best quality libraries in the market currently. So that's where my money is going. 

Happy to be proven wrong, but I'm not waiting for Pacific.


----------



## FireGS

artinro said:


> That said, the library is PRE alpha still


I'll throw my vote into this one as well, there is no "pre-alpha" in the testing phase. These are clearly tests, and that moves it into the "alpha" stage. Pre-alpha would be before the library is even in Kontakt.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Mike Fox said:


> 1K for this? Unless there’s a ton of articulations, off the charts playability, and forgivable imperfections, I’ll put that kind of money elsewhere.
> 
> With the amount of string libs currently out there, you’ve gotta do something truly spectacular to grab my attention, and great legato alone ain’t gonna do it.


I'm always interested in what Jasper is up to, and it's fascinating that he's 1) going out on a limb and experimenting 2) putting together libraries super fast.

But at a certain price point, I can only justify putting my limited money into something that's a rock-solid long-term investment that will be maintained over time and not an experiment or something that might be discontinued in a short time, or something where I have to check a ton of disclaimers about noises and artifacts and not expecting any support. Or to know the location it was recorded at.

The short-term fast fashion stuff can be nice sometimes too and can maybe even be a force to push the technology forward, don't get me wrong. But at this price point I can't gamble.


----------



## Mike Fox

gst98 said:


> 14 dynamic layers?


I’m sure that will appeal to the people who decide to buy the library.

But very rarely (probably never) am I wishing for that many dynamic layers.


----------



## Evans

"14 dynamic layers" is the new "14 mic positions."

Very useful until it's potentially excessive.


----------



## Project Anvil

jpb007.uk said:


> At USD1000 I'm of the opinion that VSL's Elite Strings are probably going to be better value (and better quality) and blends well with VSL's other strings libraries as well as 8DIO and Spitfire. VSL also seem to offer about the best quality libraries in the market currently. So that's where my money is going.
> 
> Happy to be proven wrong, but I'm not waiting for Pacific.


To each their own. I've not been impressed by any of VSL's offerings coming out of the Synchron stage. If you like it, more power to you, but frankly I find the sound to be very flat and lifeless. I keep coming back to demos, thinking maybe there's something wrong with my hearing, but I haven't been remotely impressed.

Conversely, the demos Jasper has been putting out instantly grab me. They're expressive and alive and I really can't say that about VSL's Synchron stuff at the moment.

Again, to each their own. We all have different tastes, but if I am being perfectly honest, I can't claim to understand because to me the dead-ness and nasal quality in the VSL strings are so extremely obvious that it's as if they'd put a loop of a jackhammer drilling into the pavement in the tracks and half the people here aren't hearing it.

EDIT: I do like the sound of VSL's Ymir.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I have already decided to get the Spitfire Audio Abbey-Road One Modular Orchestra, whenever they start releasing them, without even hearing a single note of these upcoming libraries, since they still don't exist, I hope we will see the Strings Module out this year, I'm basing my decision on how impressed I have been with AROOF's sounds. I also love OT's Symphonic Strings, although they need some improvements, and their SINE player needs an update. I already have the full Spitfire Symphonic Orchestra Pro, and love what it offers. 

Now, having listened to some of the demos of Performance Samples Pacific, and Voyage, I think Voyage is the one that I might be more interested in, whenever they begin releasing the sections. 

I love VSL libraries, especially their Synchron Strings Pro, and just began discovering their Elite Strings, and imho. they are far away from lifeless, or lack expressiveness, on the contrary, they are very expressive, and flexible, and offer a lot of great sounding emotional, and expressive string sounds. It all depends on the ability of the user, I would not blame the samples, or their fantastic Synchron Player. They are both Great products. I don't really comprehend the negative comments these libraries are getting.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Mike Fox

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'm always interested in what Jasper is up to, and it's fascinating that he's 1) going out on a limb and experimenting 2) putting together libraries super fast.
> 
> But at a certain price point, I can only justify putting my limited money into something that's a rock-solid long-term investment that will be maintained over time and not an experiment or something that might be discontinued in a short time, or something where I have to check a ton of disclaimers about noises and artifacts and not expecting any support or to know the location it was recorded.
> 
> The short-term fast fashion stuff can be nice sometimes too and can maybe even be a force to push the technology forward, don't get me wrong. But at this price point I can't gamble.


Some great points here. 👍

I honestly have way too many string libs as it is, but really only use like 2 or 3 of them. I’m just at the point now where most of my string needs are covered, and string libs are becoming redundant

I really dig the sound of Pacific strings so far, but I’m just not seeing or hearing enough to really sell me, not when I’m getting by just fine with what I currently have:

Afflatus
CSS
SSS
SCS
HS
Trailer Strings
Adventure Strings
LASS
Jaeger
SO
Majestica
Ark 1
Ark 3
Symphobia
Albion
Action Strings

etc., etc. etc.

Clearly, it’s going to take A LOT for me to drop 1K on something like Pacific Strings, and unfortunately it doesn’t offer anything that’s going to turn my want into a need.

Maybe if another stimulus check comes in, lol!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Mike Fox said:


> I honestly have way too many string libs as it is, but really only use like 2 or 3 of them.


Which 2 or 3?

I'm always interested to know, once the dust settles, what people actually end up using when the excitement has passed.


----------



## muziksculp

I should also add, that the decision not to offer second violin section for Pacific, in a super competitive, and crowded Strings library marketplace in 2021. Is taking away from its competitive edge.


----------



## Peter Satera

Unfortunately, as much as I love the sound it's right out my budget. I'll keep my eye on flash sales. Unfortunately it wouldn't even replace what I have though because of lack 2nd violins. Jasper is an awesome dude, and these libs offer something unique. 

The one thing I will say about noise, which comes to in libs, I echo Anne-Kathrin Dern, ( composer that also worked at Cinesamples), and on her Brass/String lib shootout vid (can't remember which one) she makes a point of saying there's no realism by keeping noises in libraries. She goes on to talk about if you make a noise in a live recording; you do another take, someone is pitchy; you do another take, a chair squeaks; you do another take. Therefore, these artefacts in the name of 'realism' as she says, isn't justifiable.


----------



## Mike Fox

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Which 2 or 3?
> 
> I'm always interested to know, once the dust settles, what people actually end up using when the excitement has passed.


Well, my desert island string lib is Afflatus, but I do love layering it with SSS for some extra warmth.

I also a find myself using CS2 and Jaeger quite a bit!

Really just depends on the situation, but Afflatus is definitely the one that I’d choose above all else.


----------



## muziksculp

Mike Fox said:


> my desert island string lib is Afflatus


Afflatus is amazing ! I totally agree.


----------



## Getsumen

Peter Satera said:


> Unfortunately, as much as I love the sound it's right out my budget. I'll keep my eye on flash sales. Unfortunately it wouldn't even replace what I have though because of lack 2nd violins. Jasper is an awesome dude, and these libs offer something unique.
> 
> The one thing I will say about noise, which comes to in libs, I echo Anne-Kathrin Dern, ( composer that also worked at Cinesamples), and on her Brass/String lib shootout vid (can't remember which one) she makes a point of saying there's no realism by keeping noises in libraries. She goes on to talk about if you make a noise in a live recording; you do another take, someone is pitchy; you do another take, a chair squeaks; you do another take. Therefore, these artefacts in the name of 'realism' as she says, isn't justifiable.


The issue with noise for Performance samples stuff is that the way it's sampled is from phrases so there's generally gonna be more noise in the backdrop. (Not like chairs or anything, but just noise from previous notes and such) 

It's not marketed as realism or anything here, it's just an unfortunate downside that comes with the sampling process. 

People who market noise as a positive and enjoy it are strange to me yeah.


----------



## Mike Fox

Getsumen said:


> People who market noise as a positive and enjoy it are strange to me yeah.


Never understood this logic either. People claiming that it makes things sound more “human”. Well, not after the 5th time you hear the exact same sound in a single track, lol!


----------



## AudioLoco

Evans said:


> "14 dynamic layers" is the new "14 mic positions."
> 
> Very useful until it's potentially excessive.


There should be 127!


----------



## Getsumen

AudioLoco said:


> There should be 127!


Dream string lib is JXl's 16 Mics, VSL's 127's dynamic layers, and Berlin's 24 RR's coming soon to you for only 3450$ (Vat excluded)


----------



## AudioLoco

Peter Satera said:


> Unfortunately, as much as I love the sound it's right out my budget. I'll keep my eye on flash sales. Unfortunately it wouldn't even replace what I have though because of lack 2nd violins. Jasper is an awesome dude, and these libs offer something unique.
> 
> The one thing I will say about noise, which comes to in libs, I echo Anne-Kathrin Dern, ( composer that also worked at Cinesamples), and on her Brass/String lib shootout vid (can't remember which one) she makes a point of saying there's no realism by keeping noises in libraries. She goes on to talk about if you make a noise in a live recording; you do another take, someone is pitchy; you do another take, a chair squeaks; you do another take. Therefore, these artefacts in the name of 'realism' as she says, isn't justifiable.


So while you are recording a long piece with a 120 elements orchestra would you redo a whole take for a chair squeak? Usually when little problems like this arise the producer decides what to do. If there is one pitchy note from one instrument the producer will decide if it is bad enough to prompt another take.
I have been recording people for a long time (even if mostly non orchestral though) and no recording is EVER perfect. There is always something extra going on and if you analyze the waveform nothing is perfectly on the beat, "quantized", ESPECIALLY with the best players. 
As for "noise", somebody coughes somebody scratches themselves, somebody has a cold and breathes heavily, somebody has coins in their pockets, somebody has an instrument that performs weirdly that day, someone has an off day, someone has a "virtuoso" day... It's called being human, imperfect, and it is beautiful! 
So in my opinion, these things do enhance realism often and are perfectly acceptable MOST of the time. (as long as it's not too pronounced obviously)


----------



## JDK88

The more samples, the more problems likely introduced. There is less incentive to comb thousands of samples to find every cough and chair noise.


----------



## CT

Yeah... there are some things you're just not going to have the luxury of doing a retake for, especially on lower budget sessions. I get the argument for having sounds and imperfections in samples, and I also get the argument that having a finite amount of them repeating can sound as false as having none. I have yet to get annoyed by that though, so I'd rather have that stuff in there than not.


----------



## Evans

AudioLoco said:


> So while you are recording a long piece with a 120 elements orchestra would you redo a whole take for a chair squeak?


 

(timestamped)


----------



## AudioLoco

Evans said:


> (timestamped)



Yeah I don't agree. And don't agree with her in another video when she says she prefers to quantize everything as playing every single part by hand doesn't enhance the overall realism.
I respect her opinion, just have a different one.

PS (If a take is fantastic and expressive and is "it", but is a bit noisy or slightly techincally flawed for some reason, a good producer will always choose it over the perfectly clean but less expressive one)


----------



## Drundfunk

Mike Fox said:


> 1K for this? Unless there’s a ton of articulations, off the charts playability, and forgivable imperfections, I’ll put that kind of money elsewhere.
> 
> With the amount of string libs currently out there, you’ve gotta do something truly spectacular to grab my attention, and great legato alone ain’t gonna do it.


I agree. As good as it sounds and as playable as it is, $1000 seems a little bit excessive in today's market for just strings. Then I rather use what I have. I get along with those libraries just fine.


----------



## CT

AudioLoco said:


> So while you are recording a long piece with a 120 elements orchestra would you redo a whole take for a chair squeak?


Here's the thing, you don't really have to redo an entire cue in order to circumvent this or that artifact, more likely you'll do a couple bars or something just smoothing out the problem area. This means, though, that now you have to splice those takes together. Maybe you're lucky and the music makes it easy to do that, but that isn't necessarily the case and now you have a new set of difficulties and potential weirdness in making those edits passable. I can't honestly say that I've ever been "annoyed" by any of these things or felt that they diminish the professionalism of a recording (within reason of course), but I definitely find edits to be more jarring than hearing somebody shift on their chair.

Here's something kind of relevant/interesting:


----------



## lettucehat

Yes can we not start treating this video like the Holy Word, please? And besides that, you're all talking about this issue like Performance Samples libraries are full of chair squeaks and coughs or something. In my experience such aberrant noises are not any more common in these libraries than in other libraries (who are less upfront about their "deal with it" policy). I also think people need to distinguish between general noise and particular _noises_. I would say PS stuff deliberately has more of the former, and I certainly don't mind it, but I can see how some people might. But this is mostly strawman arguments at this point. Jasper is upfront about the existence of some noise, just as he is about no guaranteed support, or that these previews are from early stages of development, but these PS threads still always go the same.


----------



## AudioLoco

Mike T said:


> Here's the thing, you don't really have to redo an entire cue in order to circumvent this or that artifact, more likely you'll do a couple bars or something just smoothing out the problem area. This means, though, that now you have to splice those takes together. Maybe you're lucky and the music makes it easy to do that, but that isn't necessarily the case and now you have a new set of difficulties and potential weirdness in making those edits passable.


Yes obviously you can punch in and out


----------



## Toecutter

AudioLoco said:


> Yeah I don't agree. And don't agree with her in another video when she says she prefers to quantize everything as playing every single part by hand doesn't enhance the overall realism.
> I respect her opinion, just have a different one.
> 
> PS (If a take is fantastic and expressive and is "it", but is a bit noisy or slightly techincally flawed for some reason, a good producer will always choose it over the perfectly clean but less expressive one)


I shared this video in this exact location when it came out, I thought she was (and usually is!!) so spot on in regard to noise and sloppy recordings. This is something that drives me crazy in VI after I hear the same noise or bad intonation 12 times in a row. I can waste my time cleaning samples but intonation is a big "avoid at all costs" one for me. I was watching the walkthrough for another string library and there were notes so out of tune that I thought "people can't possibly pay for this?!" and then I looked at the comments section... blind praise, for whatever reason (no it wasn't Spitfire)

But I couldn't disagree more with her about quantizing everything as opposed to playing it in...


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

lettucehat said:


> Jasper is upfront about the existence of some noise, just as he is about no guaranteed support


True, and I respect that, and account for the risk in the price. A $100-$200 experimental library with some flaws can be nice. 

For $1k, I'd want it to be a rock solid, 100% dependable investment that won't be forgotten about in a year.


----------



## Evans

Regarding bad takes and noise, I think the only "right answer" on if it warranted a re-take is "it depends."


----------



## jaketanner

So $1k...not so far fetched when you compare them to Berlin Strings at over $1k U.S. when converted, and nearly $1k U.S. for Afflatus...because at that price point, those are the competition. Totally different sound for sure...probably not as many articulations either especially with no Second violins or Staccato.

Also, for anyone that "needs" this level of realism is probably doing actual work where the end result IS the MIDI...because honestly, if you are doing straight up mockups where the end result always goes to live, this is not needed. This seems more geared towards working pros that need to sound live, like for most TV shows, or some lower budget films perhaps. 

Anyway... LOL I "would' get it, IF I had the need because they do sound nice, but this one is surely for a very small market.


----------



## lettucehat

Land of Missing Parts said:


> True, and I respect that, and account for the risk in the price. A $100-$200 experimental library with some flaws can be nice.
> 
> For $1k, I'd want it to be a rock solid, 100% dependable investment that won't be forgotten about in a year.


I understand people coming in and saying it's too rich for them (I probably won't buy it) but talking about what various libraries should or shouldn't cost is complicated. You're talking about what you would want personally though, I get it. And people can make comparisons to other developers, sure, though I don't think many other developers are in a comparable situation. It's when people get into pricing in a vacuum that it's a pointless conversation.

Anyway I think the flaws and dependability issues are always exaggerated in these threads and people are talking more about the issue hypothetically than based any particular flaws in these libraries. It just so happens to occur in PS threads because of Jasper's checkboxes. Ironic, considering it's 1) unusually transparent and honest, which people always say they want from companies and 2) supposed to shut people up!


----------



## Casiquire

jaketanner said:


> So $1k...not so far fetched when you compare them to Berlin Strings at over $1k U.S. when converted, and nearly $1k U.S. for Afflatus...because at that price point, those are the competition. Totally different sound for sure...probably not as many articulations either especially with no Second violins or Staccato.
> 
> Also, for anyone that "needs" this level of realism is probably doing actual work where the end result IS the MIDI...because honestly, if you are doing straight up mockups where the end result always goes to live, this is not needed. This seems more geared towards working pros that need to sound live, like for most TV shows, or some lower budget films perhaps.
> 
> Anyway... LOL I "would' get it, IF I had the need because they do sound nice, but this one is surely for a very small market.


Berlin offers a WHOLE LOT more though, and even it is far overpriced


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> Berlin offers a WHOLE LOT more though, and even it is far overpriced



BSS seems like the most suitable comparison, especially seeing as they tried to take the legatos from a performance.


----------



## AudioLoco

Toecutter said:


> I shared this video in this exact location when it came out, I thought she was (and usually is!!) so spot on in regard to noise and sloppy recordings. This is something that drives me crazy in VI after I hear the same noise or bad intonation 12 times in a row. I can waste my time cleaning samples but intonation is a big "avoid at all costs" one for me. I was watching the walkthrough for another string library and there were notes so out of tune that I thought "people can't possibly pay for this?!" and then I looked at the comments section... blind praise, for whatever reason (no it wasn't Spitfire)
> 
> But I couldn't disagree more with her about quantizing everything as opposed to playing it in...


Yeah intonation issue in a sample library could be a real problem - absolutely. 
If it was a performer every single time getting a bum note, on the same note, the door would be showed immediately 
I never personally encountered until now any such serious intonation issues with the libraries I use. (Really curious about what libraries you refer to  )

She is fantastic, mucho respect, I just don't allign with her thought on this aspect.


----------



## muziksculp

I was listening to the demos of Performance Samples Voyage Strings, and think I like them more than Pacific. They sound more to my taste.


----------



## thesteelydane

JDK88 said:


> The more samples, the more problems likely introduced. There is less incentive to comb thousands of samples to find every cough and chair noise.


But that IS, quite literally, what sample library making is - at least to me.


----------



## gst98

thesteelydane said:


> But that IS, quite literally, what sample library making is - at least to me.


And Jasper even uploads hour-long videos where you can see him doing just that.


----------



## Werty

Mike Fox said:


> Some great points here. 👍
> 
> I honestly have way too many string libs as it is, but really only use like 2 or 3 of them. I’m just at the point now where most of my string needs are covered, and string libs are becoming redundant
> 
> I really dig the sound of Pacific strings so far, but I’m just not seeing or hearing enough to really sell me, not when I’m getting by just fine with what I currently have:
> 
> Afflatus
> CSS
> SSS
> SCS
> HS
> Trailer Strings
> Adventure Strings
> LASS
> Jaeger
> SO
> Majestica
> Ark 1
> Ark 3
> Symphobia
> Albion
> Action Strings
> 
> etc., etc. etc.
> 
> Clearly, it’s going to take A LOT for me to drop 1K on something like Pacific Strings, and unfortunately it doesn’t offer anything that’s going to turn my want into a need.
> 
> Maybe if another stimulus check comes in, lol!


by HS you mean Holliwood strings? Here they are, and to me they sound more realistic, at least for fast passages:


----------



## Casiquire

Werty said:


> by HS you mean Holliwood strings? Here they are, and to me they sound more realistic, at least for fast passages:



Hollywood Strings fast legato is a true marvel. They created some form of truly remarkable adaptive legato script for that library to handle from bow change to fast runs so naturally


----------



## Toecutter

Werty said:


> by HS you mean Holliwood strings? Here they are, and to me they sound more realistic, at least for fast passages:



Nice catchy theme! XD Cinematic Studio Strings sounds much more real to my ears and it's not even close. It did struggle with the rallentando part, that sucked. Tests-comparisons are cool but unless I know the tester is a midi genius and put the same care in every performance... hard to judge. I know Hollywood, Synchron and Chamber Strings are much more capable than what is presented in the video! One thing I'm certain, LA Scoring Strings had the usual anemic sound that always makes me regret having paid what I paid for it years ago...


----------



## BasariStudios

Toecutter said:


> mmmm I don't know, listening on headphones I can hear a lot of abrupt bumps in dynamics changes, I don't like this one. Shorts are all jumpy too, I get what he was going for but it doesn't sound natural to me. I hear this issue in other demos too. Having Vista flashbacks... tone is great but too many quirks. Curious to hear how this will improve as we get closer to release... come on beta team, help the man!


Same here...especially in the beginning it sounds like
Tremolo mixed with Molto Vibrato while CC1 jumps all over.


----------



## DawdlePuss

BasariStudios said:


> Same here...especially in the beginning it sounds like
> Tremolo mixed with Molto Vibrato while CC1 jumps all over.


In which voice?


----------



## Getsumen

gst98 said:


> And Jasper even uploads hour-long videos where you can see him doing just that.


Oh seriously? Where can I find some Jasper content


----------



## gst98

Getsumen said:


> Oh seriously? Where can I find some Jasper content


on his facebook, but some were also posted in the vista thread


----------



## BasariStudios

DawdlePuss said:


> In which voice?


I think the last example that was posted.


----------



## DawdlePuss

BasariStudios said:


> I think the last example that was posted.


Ah, sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean in which instrument in that example are you hearing it that way?


----------



## BasariStudios

DawdlePuss said:


> Ah, sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean in which instrument in that example are you hearing it that way?


I think its in the whole Strings Patch, its hard to tell.


----------



## Werty

Casiquire said:


> Hollywood Strings fast legato is a true marvel. They created some form of truly remarkable adaptive legato script for that library to handle from bow change to fast runs so naturally


True. And regarding long notes, really, what can I say, I like all of them:


----------



## JDK88

thesteelydane said:


> But that IS, quite literally, what sample library making is - at least to me.


Sample counts will keep increasing and increasing. 10,000 samples per instrument may be a doable task, but 500,000? 2 million? That is what I am talking about. That can't be good for a person's health.


----------



## thesteelydane

JDK88 said:


> Sample counts will keep increasing and increasing. 10,000 samples per instrument may be a doable task, but 500,000? 2 million? That is what I am talking about. That can't be good for a person's health.


My first library Bunker Strings actually contained over 10.000 samples from about 19 hours of recordings. I played half of those samples myself, and each sampled was edited individually, then later time aligned, tuned by hand and mixed down to about 4000 samples. Part of that crazy process was due to the way it was recorded and later programmed (think VSL, but with a very different end goal in mind), but it did provide me with total quality control and a lot of flexibility in post production. The whole thing took me about 8 months and nearly drove me mad. I also got dangerously close to a RSI in my mouse hand.

So yeah 10000 samples is doable, but its a bit much for one person when you also have to do playing, recording, programming, UI design, scripting and marketing/business stuff.


----------



## Soundbed

Sovereign said:


> The legato police approves.


I'm so glad this is catching on!


Kony said:


> At this point, I'm wondering whether it's still worth getting Con Moto before it's discontinued this Friday.


I wonder too, but this (Pacific) seems like it "only" has a rebow and may not be as obvious as the Con Moto bow changes. I "wish" that future Performance Samples strings releases could have a Con Moto switch to trigger those Con Moto changes in the middle of a phrase, e.g., whenever desired.



Nate Johnson said:


> jeebus, who cares about the samples - dude's a monster composer!


yes so much of what we're hearing is the writing and programming and it makes me wonder what he [Jasper] could do with the other libraries we all (collectively) own...

~~

Cannot find it now but someone also mentioned a "dated" sound or "vintage" sound in the demos, what do others think about this? I like the sound of Jasper's demos and other people writing for Vista etc. 

... But for me personally, I don't get a "*that's the sound I want*" feeling — and it goes back to something about the "vintage" sound (or something I cannot put my finger on exactly).

This question is about subjective opinions, so there is no good or bad right or wrong here ... 

I think Pacific (and Vista) sound like they do what they do really well, but, I wonder if Pacific would sound more "contemporary" ... if the writing were different? ("contemporary" because, ofc, "modern" and "modernism" was a period — so it's not as accurate when describing the sound of music intended to appeal to "contemporary" listeners alive today and not expecting to hear "period" specific music) 

Let me know what you think, would Pacific sound great in a contemporary movie set in "today" — and meant to sound like it was made this year and _not a throwback_, IF the writing was stylistically also like what audiences might expect to hear "today"?

Not trying to go down the road of "all new music since XYZ is crap" or "synthesizers killed the orchestra star" types of discussion: ............ in the context of strings writing, where there's actual strings and actual players playing actual notes (not only action spiccatos, war drums and sound design) ... that's the context in which I'm trying to picture the sound of Pacific (and to some extent Vista and / or Voyage) ... but my ear is led down the path of "period drama" or "vintage sound" and I wonder if I'm being taken that way from the writing, the quality of the performances and recording, both, or if I'm just imagining all of it.


----------



## Pianolando

I don’t hear any “vintage” sound from the demos I’ve heard so far, nor do I think it sounds dark. It sounds like a lovely string section that can be sculpted for more trailer-like bite with EQ, compression and saturation. My concern is that like many others I think the transitions didn’t sound that smooth, specially in the last demo, but I don’t know if that has more to do with the writing than the library - the shorts below the melody we’re a bit problematic IMO. At least I hope that’s what it was. 

If the library can deliver a new level of realism when playing soft velocities and slow legato, then 1000$ is not too much, I’d pay double if I had to, even if it would sting and my card would cry. If not, well, then this library is not for me. Looking forward to the release!


----------



## lettucehat

Soundbed said:


> I'm so glad this is catching on!
> 
> I wonder too, but this (Pacific) seems like it "only" has a rebow and may not be as obvious as the Con Moto bow changes. I "wish" that future Performance Samples strings releases could have a Con Moto switch to trigger those Con Moto changes in the middle of a phrase, e.g., whenever desired.
> 
> 
> yes so much of what we're hearing is the writing and programming and it makes me wonder what he [Jasper] could do with the other libraries we all (collectively) own...
> 
> ~~
> 
> Cannot find it now but someone also mentioned a "dated" sound or "vintage" sound in the demos, what do others think about this? I like the sound of Jasper's demos and other people writing for Vista etc.
> 
> ... But for me personally, I don't get a "*that's the sound I want*" feeling — and it goes back to something about the "vintage" sound (or something I cannot put my finger on exactly).
> 
> This question is about subjective opinions, so there is no good or bad right or wrong here ...
> 
> I think Pacific (and Vista) sound like they do what they do really well, but, I wonder if Pacific would sound more "contemporary" ... if the writing were different? ("contemporary" because, ofc, "modern" and "modernism" was a period — so it's not as accurate when describing the sound of music intended to appeal to "contemporary" listeners alive today and not expecting to hear "period" specific music)
> 
> Let me know what you think, would Pacific sound great in a contemporary movie set in "today" — and meant to sound like it was made this year and _not a throwback_, IF the writing was stylistically also like what audiences might expect to hear "today"?
> 
> Not trying to go down the road of "all new music since XYZ is crap" or "synthesizers killed the orchestra star" types of discussion: ............ in the context of strings writing, where there's actual strings and actual players playing actual notes (not only action spiccatos, war drums and sound design) ... that's the context in which I'm trying to picture the sound of Pacific (and to some extent Vista and / or Voyage) ... but my ear is led down the path of "period drama" or "vintage sound" and I wonder if I'm being taken that way from the writing, the quality of the performances and recording, both, or if I'm just imagining all of it.


I think Pacific is actually finger legato, if I remember a previous commenter or JB facebook comment correctly.

I'd say "vintage" sort of describes the sound, but indirectly. I'd say the sound of his libraries is generally more raw than other developers, which for a lot of reasons we associate with more dated sounds (which I happen to like). And I happen to prefer libraries that allow more sculpting for the user, as long as it doesn't mean hours fixing problems. I can always create a smiley curve if it's too dull, after all. As with all libraries, it's kind of assumed you'll treat them to sound the way you want, so I'm wondering - do you get the same sense from the Pacific demos marked as "processed" or just the no verb/proc ones?


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Oops...is Jasper teasing pacific brass now?😜 (From his story on facebook).
French horns players in the same hall that pacific strings were recorded.


----------



## yiph2

Niv Schrieber said:


> Oops...is Jasper teasing pacific brass now?😜 (From his story on facebook).
> French horns players in the same hall.


Probably Voyage


----------



## Niv Schrieber

yiph2 said:


> Probably Voyage


That's the thing...if i remember correctly, voyage is recorded in another hall, not this one.


----------



## Robin

From his recent insta feed:


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Robin said:


> From his recent insta feed:


Thanks! looks like he is going for the full orchestra route with pacific as well. I wonder how small sections like these are going to accompany the symphonic section sizes of pacific strings. will have to wait and see!


----------



## gst98

Niv Schrieber said:


> Thanks! looks like he is going for the full orchestra route with pacific as well. I wonder how small sections like these are going to accompany the symphonic section sizes of pacific strings. will have to wait and see!


Well this is Caspian Plus, not Pacific brass. Voyage brass is standard size brass sections.

6 days of recording would probably indicate that it's an all in one playable patch like Caspian, not full articulation sets. The Plus in the name (and discontinuation of Caspian) would make me think it might have legato this time round.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

gst98 said:


> Well this is Caspian Plus, not Pacific brass. Voyage brass is standard size brass sections.
> 
> 6 days of recording would probably indicate that it's an all in one playable patch like Caspian, not full articulation sets. The Plus in the name (and discontinuation of Caspian) would make me think it might have legato this time round.


Yes but Caspian consists of 6 French horns,3 trumpets and 3 bass trombones. So it's interesting how Caspian plus is going to compliment the now discontinued Caspian (that is recorded in the same hall) as well as pacific strings. The voyage project is recorded in a different location to my understanding. In any case I hope Jasper won't go insane with so much work! This year it looks like he decided to take things much much further.


----------



## Casiquire

Niv Schrieber said:


> Yes but Caspian consists of 6 French horns,3 trumpets and 3 bass trombones. So it's interesting how Caspian plus is going to compliment the now discontinued Caspian (that is recorded in the same hall) as well as pacific strings. The voyage project is recorded in a different location to my understanding. In any case I hope Jasper won't go insane with so much work! This year it looks like he decided to take things much much further.


Yeah at this point i don't think anyone can convince themselves that it's totally a one-man operation anymore.


----------



## wlinart

So while caspian is discontinued, and replaced by pacific brass/caspian plus, con moto is discontinued and replaced by pacific? Now the discontinuation makes a bit more sense...


----------



## Niv Schrieber

wlinart said:


> So while caspian is discontinued, and replaced by pacific brass/caspian plus, con moto is discontinued and replaced by pacific? Now the discontinuation makes a bit more sense...


Yes,but looks like Caspian plus is an all a2 ensemble library as opposed to the a6 a3 a3 patches of Caspian. So those who never purchased Caspian won't be able to use it as the main one. Although we don't yet know what articulations are being recorded for Caspian plus.


----------



## Snarf

Casiquire said:


> Yeah at this point i don't think anyone can convince themselves that it's totally a one-man operation anymore.


What makes you think that is impossible, though? As far as I know he has always been working on multiple projects at the same time - some of which are private even.

Have you seen his BTS process streams? He seems to have developed a lightning fast workflow for sample editing and selection with regards to timbral & dynamic consistency. 

Additionally, his libraries are generally fairly limited in scope and he doesn't need to spend that much time at the business & support side.

I'm not saying he doesn't delegate certain tasks (Walid Feghali does the artwork iirc, perhaps a recording engineer etc.) but I'm not seeing a strong reason to believe that Jasper doesn't do the "main" elements of developing a sample library, e.g.: sampling approach (musical directions), sample selection, sample editing, programming in Kontakt etc.


----------



## Getsumen

Where does he post these streams by the way? 


Snarf said:


> What makes you think that is impossible, though? As far as I know he has always been working on multiple projects at the same time - some of which are private even.
> 
> Have you seen his BTS process streams? He seems to have developed a lightning fast workflow for sample editing and selection with regards to timbral & dynamic consistency.
> 
> Additionally, his libraries are generally fairly limited in scope and he doesn't need to spend that much time at the business & support side.
> 
> I'm not saying he doesn't delegate certain tasks (Walid Feghali does the artwork iirc, perhaps a recording engineer etc.) but I'm not seeing a strong reason to believe that Jasper doesn't do the "main" elements of developing a sample library, e.g.: sampling approach (musical directions), sample selection, sample editing, programming in Kontakt etc.


----------



## Casiquire

Snarf said:


> What makes you think that is impossible, though? As far as I know he has always been working on multiple projects at the same time - some of which are private even.
> 
> Have you seen his BTS process streams? He seems to have developed a lightning fast workflow for sample editing and selection with regards to timbral & dynamic consistency.
> 
> Additionally, his libraries are generally fairly limited in scope and he doesn't need to spend that much time at the business & support side.
> 
> I'm not saying he doesn't delegate certain tasks (Walid Feghali does the artwork iirc, perhaps a recording engineer etc.) but I'm not seeing a strong reason to believe that Jasper doesn't do the "main" elements of developing a sample library, e.g.: sampling approach (musical directions), sample selection, sample editing, programming in Kontakt etc.


These libraries are not limited in scope. Quite the opposite, they're excessive, with like fifteen dynamic layers.


----------



## Hendrixon

Casiquire said:


> Yeah at this point i don't think anyone can convince themselves that it's totally a one-man operation anymore.


Who knows... 
Have you seen Vangelis? His setup? The guy composes every thing live, all parts. True mad man. 
I don't know Jasper but I assume he has the brains to write code, and if his raw material is recorded in a way that rules can be used to splice samples, this could speed up work by factors. 
At most he will need to audition and trim. 

Also, I didn't grew with computers since day one, but my nephews did, and the speed they type text vastly outperform mine... Even thought I code more years then their age


----------



## muziksculp

Given Pacific strings do not have 2nd violins, I wonder if using the transpose trick to create a second Violins Version would be one way to deal with this shortcoming ?


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> Given Pacific strings do not have 2nd violins, I wonder if using the transpose trick to create a second Violins Version would be one way to deal with this shortcoming ?


That’s what I did to VISTA. I can’t live without having the 2nd violins.


----------



## muziksculp

I have been listening to the audio demos posted for Pacific Strings, they sound beautiful. 

Looking forward to their release, and more info. posted about them. I have decided to pass on Vista.


----------



## muziksculp

Any info. on when Pacific will be released ?


----------



## FireGS

muziksculp said:


> Any info. on when Pacific will be released ?


I heard somewhere JB saying hopes by end of May.


----------



## soulofsound

muziksculp said:


> Any info. on when Pacific will be released ?


25th April 2026. To commemorate the centenary of the premiere of Turandot.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Any info. on when Pacific will be released ?


When I last spoke with Jasper about Pacific, he was aiming for early June. He just wrapped up the sessions several weeks ago.


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> When I last spoke with Jasper about Pacific, he was aiming for early June. He just wrapped up the sessions several weeks ago.


Thanks for the feedback. Early June is not too far away. 

These Strings sound so rich, and expressive. I just hope he goes easy on the price, or offer a very attractive Intro discount price.


----------



## Getsumen

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Early June is not too far away.
> 
> These Strings sound so rich, and expressive. I just hope he goes easy on the price, or offer a very attractive Intro discount price.


1000$ USD is the current plan it seems which makes me a little curious as to what Voyage will end up being lol.

Wondering if he'll split the library up to make the price more easier for some though


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Early June is not too far away.
> 
> These Strings sound so rich, and expressive. I just hope he goes easy on the price, or offer a very attractive Intro discount price.


You have some catching up to do bud! $1000 and real concerns voiced by some of us a few pages ago, at least this is a quick read for VIC standards. I'm sure Jasper is reading (hi JB XD) so I'm hoping things will improve and he will keep updating these new products (Pacific and Voyage) instead of abandoning them so quickly. If not, it will be an easy skip.


----------



## Marco_D

Does anyone know if the transitions are controllable? In the demos I hear both regular and portamento transitions and I'm wondering if you can control them (for ex., based on velocity, like most string libraries) or if it's just predetermined, like for other PS libraries?


----------



## Sovereign

Anyone seen any information on how many dynamic layers the legatos will consist of? Perhaps someone with a direct line to Jasper could ask him? I'm very curious.


----------



## FireGS




----------



## gst98

Sovereign said:


> Anyone seen any information on how many dynamic layers the legatos will consist of? Perhaps someone with a direct line to Jasper could ask him? I'm very curious.


I think it is 5 legato dynamics.


----------



## Sovereign

gst98 said:


> I think it is 5 legato dynamics.


Is that just a guess or based on actual info from Jasper?


----------



## gst98

Sovereign said:


> Is that just a guess or based on actual info from Jasper?


I may be wrong, but someone asked not long ago if there are 14 for the longs, how many for the legato - but I went back and can't see that comment anywhere now, so probably best to not go off of that.


----------



## Casiquire

FireGS said:


>



That's....SO noisy.


----------



## mikeh-375

Casiquire said:


> That's....SO noisy.


it is, but it also sounds very alive imv. I hope that's not lost as it sounds just like a session.


----------



## FireGS

mikeh-375 said:


> it is, but it also sounds very alive imv. I hope that's not lost as it sounds just like a session.


100% I hate sterile samples, especially pizz. This sounds LOVELY.


----------



## Casiquire

A little bit here and there is one thing, but if it's enough to distract me from the liveliness--which this absolutely is--then the balance is off. I'm hoping there will be a pass of careful noise reduction


----------



## Jett Hitt

Casiquire said:


> A little bit here and there is one thing, but if it's enough to distract me from the liveliness--which this absolutely is--then the balance is off. I'm hoping there will be a pass of careful noise reduction


It pretty clearly says "No noise reduction YET" right in the title. This is a raw product.


----------



## Casiquire

Jett Hitt said:


> It pretty clearly says "No noise reduction YET" right in the title. This is a raw product.


Good to know. The title doesn't show in the embedded player.


----------



## FireGS

Casiquire said:


> Good to know. The title doesn't show in the embedded player.








Doesn't it?


----------



## Mike Fox

Casiquire said:


> A little bit here and there is one thing, but if it's enough to distract me from the liveliness--which this absolutely is--then the balance is off. I'm hoping there will be a pass of careful noise reduction


I agree. That noise is straight up distracting.

Glad to see it’s just a raw version.


----------



## Casiquire

FireGS said:


> Doesn't it?


No


----------



## JGRaynaud

Ok so... I had the opportunity to test some articulations of the library (most of them except the legatos, tremolos or marcatos that weren't included in the alpha package).

So far here are the things I can say :

1) Overall I like the articulations I tested a lot.

2) There are noises on the short articulations that might bother people. I know Jasper is currently doing some noise reduction on these articulations but from what he told me it's not a heavy reduction so do not expect them to be ultra clean. Basically, there will be noises in the end especially at low dynamics. So you're warned :D

3) The amount of dynamics is great. It was a bit disturbing for me at first on the shorts, especially the spiccatos. Mainly because you we need to go high in the velocity to start having an aggressive sound. It's more accurate compared to a real orchestra, but I'm so used to spiccatos that starts being aggressive at mid velocity that it surprised me.

4) The sound of the microphones reminds me a lot of Air Lydhurst hall. There are two mics. The ambiant one is very ambiant and has a Harry Potter 1 and 2 quality to it (it's as ambiant as these soundtracks). The closes aren't ultra close. It is giving a good definition to the sound and when you use a lot of close added to the ambiant microphone it reminds me the Halo 5 soundtrack string tone, especially on the basses and cellos.


----------



## Sovereign

JGRaynaud said:


> 3) The amount of dynamics is great. It was a bit disturbing for me at first on the shorts, especially the spiccatos.


Uhm, aren't the spiccatos the only available shorts in the library? Speaking of which, is the spiccato patch performance-based like in fluid shorts?


----------



## JGRaynaud

Sovereign said:


> Uhm, aren't the spiccatos the only available shorts in the library? Speaking of which, is the spiccato patch performance-based like in fluid shorts?


I was having the pizzicatos in mind too when I wrote that. Not shorts with the bow on the strings but shorts anyway !

Yes they are performance-based.


----------



## Sovereign

JGRaynaud said:


> I was having the pizzicatos in mind too when I wrote that. Not shorts with the bow on the strings but shorts anyway !
> 
> They are performance-based indeed.


Thanks for the information. Still a bit disappointed the spiccatos are the only arco shorts available, perhaps the marcatos might be flexible enough to provide for more variations. Any details on the number of dynamics for the legatos or is this still unclear?


----------



## JGRaynaud

Sovereign said:


> perhaps the marcatos might be flexible enough to provide for more variations.


I don't have the marcatos yet so I can't say for now.



Sovereign said:


> Any details on the number of dynamics for the legatos or is this still unclear?


It's up to 5 dynamics.


----------



## gst98

JGRaynaud said:


> Ok so... I had the opportunity to test some articulations of the library (most of them except the legatos, tremolos or marcatos that weren't included in the alpha package).
> 
> So far here are the things I can say :
> 
> 1) Overall I like the articulations I tested a lot.
> 
> 2) There are noises on the short articulations that might bother people. I know Jasper is currently doing some noise reduction on these articulations but from what he told me it's not a heavy reduction so do not expect them to be ultra clean. Basically, there will be noises in the end especially at low dynamics. So you're warned :D
> 
> 3) The amount of dynamics is great. It was a bit disturbing for me at first on the shorts, especially the spiccatos. Mainly because you we need to go high in the velocity to start having an aggressive sound. It's more accurate compared to a real orchestra, but I'm so used to spiccatos that starts being aggressive at mid velocity that it surprised me.
> 
> 4) The sound of the microphones reminds me a lot of Air Lydhurst hall. There are two mics. The ambiant one is very ambiant and has a Harry Potter 1 and 2 quality to it (it's as ambiant as these soundtracks). The closes aren't ultra close. It is giving a good definition to the sound and when you use a lot of close added to the ambiant microphone it reminds me the Halo 5 soundtrack string tone, especially on the basses and cellos.



Thanks for the insight. It's nice to know ahead of time about noise. We'll have to wait to hear some exposed examples of the spiccs then, to see how intrusive it is. Do you think Jasper would be open to having two sets of the shorts then, like how Nashville strings was handled (one set noisy, the other very clean)?

I was also hoping for more than just spiccs too, but I was waiting to hear how flexible they might be. I have fluid shorts 1, and while I like them in the context of fast passages, I don't often use them on more exposed or slower parts because the effects of them taken from performances are more obvious.



Sovereign said:


> Thanks for the information. Still a bit disappointed the spiccatos are the only arco shorts available, perhaps the marcatos might be flexible enough to provide for more variations. Any details on the number of dynamics for the legatos or is this still unclear?


The demo of voyage's marcatos on Soundcloud made them see pretty flexible


----------



## Jett Hitt

Even if the shorts are limited, I have so many other string libraries with shorts that I am sure could pinch hit if need be. If indeed the sound is a lot like Air, it seems likely that the shorts from SSS would fit right in there.


----------



## Casiquire

Dang spiccato only? I didn't know that 😔 i was hoping to finally have a complete library from PS. What are the odds of Voyage being more comprehensive?


----------



## lettucehat

Casiquire said:


> Dang spiccato only? I didn't know that 😔 i was hoping to finally have a complete library from PS. What are the odds of Voyage being more comprehensive?


according to the website "multiple types of arco shorts"


----------



## CT

Casiquire said:


> Dang spiccato only?


Marcato as well.


----------



## NickDorito

According to Jasper's fb story post, Pacific is now going to be a full orchestral library now with woodwinds, brass and percussion coming later.


----------



## lettucehat

NickDorito said:


> According to Jasper's fb story post, Pacific is now going to be a full orchestral library now with woodwinds, brass and percussion coming later.


That's interesting, I thought that was already the plan for Voyage. String section sizes being different, I understand, but Voyage was supposed to have all sections anyway. Have those recordings become part of Pacific, with Voyage being a strings-only release perhaps? Or will they each have different sized brass/wind sections. Like a4 horns for Voyage, a6 for Pacific? I realize you don't know just from his FB, just musing out loud in case someone knows.


----------



## mikeh-375

NickDorito said:


> According to Jasper's fb story post, Pacific is now going to be a full orchestral library now with woodwinds, brass and percussion coming later.


are there 2nd violins?


----------



## CT

No 2nd violins initially, and I would be surprised if they've been added in this expansion, but who knows.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Mike T said:


> No 2nd violins initially, and I would be surprised if they've been added in this expansion, but who knows.


That would be scope creep.


----------



## mikeh-375

Mike T said:


> No 2nd violins initially, and I would be surprised if they've been added in this expansion, but who knows.


thnx Mike. Not a full orchestra yet then. The lack of 2nds at this point gives me serious pause for thought at that price range.


----------



## CT

mikeh-375 said:


> thnx Mike. Not a full orchestra yet then. The lack of 2nds at this point gives me serious pause for thought at that price range.


Yeah I definitely get missing them, but I'm finding that it isn't a real nuisance as often as one might expect it to be. All depends on how often you write 1sts and 2nds in unison I guess, that'd be the main context that requires a workaround.


----------



## muziksculp

I find it very puzzling why no second violins for Pacific, which is a pro-level, pricy Strings library ? and could become a full orchestral collection.

Go figure.. why cripple the strings ?


----------



## Banquet

muziksculp said:


> I find it very puzzling why no second violins for Pacific, which is a pro-level, pricy Strings library ? and could become a full orchestral collection.
> 
> Go figure.. why cripple the strings ?


I'm a noob at writing for strings but I find second violins so useful generally for providing another element that can be put to use in so many ways. Having recently bought Vista and absolutely fallen in love with it, I'm definitely very interested in Pacific now, but yes, I feel like not having 2nd violins is a bummer. Perhaps I can use the violins from Vista as 2nd violins for pacific (or divisi!)


----------



## mikeh-375

Mike T said:


> Yeah I definitely get missing them, but I'm finding that it isn't a real nuisance as often as one might expect it to be. All depends on how often you write 1sts and 2nds in unison I guess, that'd be the main context that requires a workaround.


It is a nuisance and potential deal breaker for me Mike. I, and I'm sure you do too, consider the 2nds as a different instrument and an essential part of what should be a complete and cohesive whole. I know about the transposition trick, but at that price I shouldn't have to be doing work-arounds.
That said, what is really annoying and upsetting is that the strings sound really promising. As @muziksculp says....'Why cripple the strings'. The compromise is not reflected in the price imv.


----------



## Snarf

lettucehat said:


> That's interesting, I thought that was already the plan for Voyage. String section sizes being different, I understand, but Voyage was supposed to have all sections anyway. Have those recordings become part of Pacific, with Voyage being a strings-only release perhaps? Or will they each have different sized brass/wind sections. Like a4 horns for Voyage, a6 for Pacific? I realize you don't know just from his FB, just musing out loud in case someone knows.



Basically, Jasper seems to be making two symphonic orchestra's. Voyage so far has been more experimental/comprehensive in terms of articulations and solo instruments, whereas Pacific was just the basic articulations and most common instruments (e.g. only a2 brass). Apparently he has rerecorded a lot of stuff for Pacific + new recordings so who knows, maybe it'll be a 'complete' library too.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

muziksculp said:


> I find it very puzzling why no second violins for Pacific, which is a pro-level, pricy Strings library ? and could become a full orchestral collection.
> 
> Go figure.. why cripple the strings ?


Cripple the strings... Maybe be even more dramatic?? 
The transpose trick works well mostly so there isn't a lot of crippling going on.
I don't quite see the point of stacking 2 symphonic size Violins patches anyway so if one doesn't plan to do that it's not a problem anyway since there will be no phasing, even without any transposing.
I've used 3 instances of somewhat differently processed Vista Violins playing different lines and I don't see a problem. 
Jasper is one guy doing a gargantuan library with 4-6 times as many dynamic layers as many other libraries have. And all that with an expensive symphonic section.

It's better to focus on truly perfecting a single violin section if you don't have unlimited resources.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

So does the price stay the same now?


----------



## gst98

NeonMediaKJT said:


> So does the price stay the same now?


? While some may be disappointed, these things were announced and added to the thread weeks ago.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

gst98 said:


> ? While some may be disappointed, these things were announced and added to the thread weeks ago.


I mean the price now that the library is full orchestra and not just strings. I thought the price that was mentioned was for when it was just a strings library


----------



## gst98

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I mean the price now that the library is full orchestra and not just strings. I thought the price that was mentioned was for when it was just a strings library


Oh right, yeah this price is just for strings. We have no idea yet how much detail the other sections have been recorded at. Hopefull a2 brass makes it a bit more affordable.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

These will probably be seperate releases so the price of the strings won't be affected in that case.


----------



## muziksculp

DarkestShadow said:


> Cripple the strings... Maybe be even more dramatic??
> The transpose trick works well mostly so there isn't a lot of crippling going on.
> I don't quite see the point of stacking 2 symphonic size Violins patches anyway so if one doesn't plan to do that it's not a problem anyway since there will be no phasing, even without any transposing.
> I've used 3 instances of somewhat differently processed Vista Violins playing different lines and I don't see a problem.
> Jasper is one guy doing a gargantuan library with 4-6 times as many dynamic layers as many other libraries have. And all that with an expensive symphonic section.
> 
> It's better to focus on truly perfecting a single violin section if you don't have unlimited resources.


Hi @DarkestShadow

Given that having 2nd violins is quite a standard thing in string libraries these days, I just think it would have been better if they were included. As simple as that.

On the other hand, I might have gone a bit over board, and been on the dramatic side when I wrote 'Cripple' , so..it is an exaggeration to some degree, if one doesn't have 2nd violins, then the transposition trick, or any other alteration to the 2nd violins sound character, or even layering them with another library, might work fine to use the first violins patch as second violins. I also think having 2nd violins could have increased the price tag of Pacific. Which is already quite pricy. Also thanks for letting us know that using the 1st vlns 2nd vlns did not produce any phasing issues, this is very good to know, and might not require the use of the transpositions trick.

At the end of the day, it is the sound of these strings that attracted me the most, and the fact that it's not just a legato strings library. I'm still very interested in both Pacific, and Voyage.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## FireGS

The way it read from the Story was that "Pacific" is now all of those ensembles as a single purchase. Not sure how interested I'd be at that idea, especially if it raises the price substantially.

Happy to hear otherwise.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

While it's nice to have, I think the need for separate first and second violins can be overstated a bit. I don't consider the transposition trick even necessary most of the time unless you're writing some V1/V2 unison parts (in which case you might want to just leave out V2).


----------



## gst98

2nd Violins is like divisi to me, it's so far down the list of things that are important to create good VI's and mockups but people seem to get really hung up on them.

If people write such different parts for violins 2 then you'll always be using different samples, right? The only thing you're missing out on is the change in room position. If you're writing unison parts then you'll have to use the transposition trick. 

But as @DarkestShadow said, a symphonic section isn't going to sound small if you're not doubling unison parts. Not to mention I think most people who are willing to spend this much on pacific have probably already bought into JB's libraries and will have Vista of CM to do unison lines if they must.

And if this is the price already without 2nds, I don't want to know what it would have been with them. I'm surprised more people are fussed about this instead of the lack of variety in the shorts.


----------



## muziksculp

gst98 said:


> I'm surprised more people are fussed about this instead of the lack of variety in the shorts.


Do we already know what are the short articulations Pacific will offer when it completed ?


----------



## gst98

muziksculp said:


> Do we already know what are the short articulations Pacific will offer when it completed ?


yes there is a screenshot on the first page.


----------



## muziksculp

gst98 said:


> yes there is a screenshot on the first page.


Thanks.

So only Spicc. 

Stacc. and Staccatissimo would have bee nice to have, I'm also picky about shorts, having only Spicc. is quite limiting.


----------



## Jett Hitt

I find the brouhaha about the missing 2nds rather comical. If you have ever stood in front of an orchestra while they played your music, one thing you might quickly find yourself wishing is that you could clone the 1st violins and replace the 2nds. They play 2nd violin for a reason. If you are fortunate enough to be performed by a great orchestra where this isn't a factor, one of the things that makes that orchestra great is that the two sections are indistinguishable from one another.


----------



## muk

Jett Hitt said:


> I find the brouhaha about the missing 2nds rather comical. If you have ever stood in front of an orchestra while they played your music, one thing you might quickly find yourself wishing is that you could clone the 1st violins and replace the 2nds. They play 2nd violin for a reason. If you are fortunate enough to be performed by a great orchestra where this isn't a factor, one of the things that makes that orchestra great is that the two sections are indistinguishable from one another.



Hm, that's not been my experience. Lets leave aside bad orchestras, becuase who wants samples of a bad orchestra anyway. In the great orchestras I have heard the second violins are not one iota worse than the first violins. But they still sound different. Different, not worse. Partly simply because they are placed differently, partly because they are a slightly smaller group of players, and partly because they are different players.

How audible that will be in the context of a mockup is a different question. In my opinion, recording second violins separately makes sense if you record in situ, and in an environment that is not too dry (whether that environment has pronounced early reflections, and/or tail, doesn't matter). Recording second violins separately has fewer benefits if you record each section in the center (like 8dio, for example), and/or if you record in a dry environment (VSL Silent Stage, for example). In these cases its only a timbral difference between first and second violins. And that probably won't be audible in the context of a full mockup.


----------



## Jett Hitt

muk said:


> How audible that will be in the context of a mockup is a different question.


No it is not a different question because that is exactly what we are talking about here.


----------



## Casiquire

I think @muk answered the question in the second half though and i agree. I love having a second violin section because sometimes i play first violin lines using them instead. It's great to have more options and lines that can play together and split up again freely without having to do transposition tricks. I do agree that it isn't the BIGGEST deal and i do have a couple libraries missing the seconds, but a library that has it is higher on my list than one that doesn't.


----------



## muk

Jett Hitt said:


> No it is not a different question because that is exactly what we are talking about here.



Nice and dandy, but it isn't what you wrote about. You wrote about how different first violins sound to seconds in a real orchestra. Anyway, I gave my opinion about both questions.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

muziksculp said:


> Hi @DarkestShadow
> 
> Given that having 2nd violins is quite a standard thing in string libraries these days, I just think it would have been better if they were included. As simple as that.
> 
> On the other hand, I might have gone a bit over board, and been on the dramatic side when I wrote 'Cripple' , so..it is an exaggeration to some degree, if one doesn't have 2nd violins, then the transposition trick, or any other alteration to the 2nd violins sound character, or even layering them with another library, might work fine to use the first violins patch as second violins. I also think having 2nd violins could have increased the price tag of Pacific. Which is already quite pricy. Also thanks for letting us know that using the 1st vlns 2nd vlns did not produce any phasing issues, this is very good to know, and might not require the use of the transpositions trick.
> 
> At the end of the day, it is the sound of these strings that attracted me the most, and the fact that it's not just a legato strings library. I'm still very interested in both Pacific, and Voyage.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


Well, it's exactly not as simple that because to include 2nds violins a much bigger budged would have to be utilized, which might not be available so there would have to be compromises in other areas making it in fact worse rather than better. 

I didn't mean to say that it doesn't have phasing issues, I just said that when not using it in unison there will generally (in all libraries) be no issue with phasing, even without the transpose trick. As Sarah said above more elegantly haha...


----------



## muziksculp

DarkestShadow said:


> I didn't mean to say that it doesn't have phasing issues, I just said that when not using it in unison there will generally (in all libraries) be no issue with phasing


Yes, I know that's what you meant. 

But... In a unison scenario, there could be some phasing. But that can be dealt with some layering. 

Thanks.


----------



## muziksculp

@DarkestShadow ,

Can you elaborate on the limited (only Spicc.) short articulation in Pacific ? Could this change to include more shorts, like Stac. and Stac.ismo. ?


----------



## Jett Hitt

DarkestShadow said:


> Well, it's exactly not as simple that because to include 2nds violins a much bigger budged would have to be utilized,


This is the whole point right here. Is it really worth adding $250 to the cost of this library to have 2nds? (By my calculations that's what it would be.) 2nds are typically an inner voice. Personally, I'd rather invest my resources elsewhere.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

muziksculp said:


> @DarkestShadow ,
> 
> Can you elaborate on the limited (only Spicc.) short articulation in Pacific ? Could this change to include more shorts, like Stac. and Stac.ismo. ?


I'm not involved in the production process... 
We'll both see at the end but I doubt it


----------



## muziksculp

DarkestShadow said:


> I'm not involved in the production...


I see. But if you get to know more about this important detail, it would be helpful if you can post about it in the future. I really feel that having only Spicc. short is too limited. 

Thanks.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

muziksculp said:


> I see. But if you get to know more about this important detail, it would be helpful if you can post about it in the future. I really feel that having only Spicc. short is too limited.
> 
> Thanks.


wel, I'm not posting anything that Jasper doesn't put out there haha.

As soon as it's released and you can even consider buying the library it will be 100% clear what ended up being included. :D


----------



## muziksculp

DarkestShadow said:


> wel, I'm not posting anything that Jasper doesn't put out there haha.
> 
> As soon as it's released and you can even consider buying the library it will be 100% clear what ended up being included. :D


OK, I guess I will just have to wait and see if he posts more info. about the included shorts in Pacific. 

Thanks


----------



## Pianolando

I would rather pay 250$ more to get 2nd violins but I understand that many wouldn’t agree. It’s both about placement in the room (specially in a big hall), section size and different players, contributing to a different sound than the 1st violins. 
I’d rather have at least all the usual sections if I make an investment as big as this, and then even the added cost is worth it. But that said, not even the most comprehensive libraries can include all wishes. Mostly I’m just hoping this is amazing, then I’d probably buy it anyway.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

well, room placement can be generated with panning tools like Auburn and reverbs... EQ, mic position stuff etc. You nail it once and save it forever as preset :D


----------



## artinro

Personally, if I had the choice between dedicated 2nd violins or a huge numbers of dynamics, RR and detail, I'd go for the latter always. That said, keep in mind there is also a legato violins overlay in addition to the main violins legato patch that can be used for 2nds in a pinch. But I know Jasper keeps his Pacific website up to date with the latest. https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific


----------



## muziksculp

From his Pacific Product page :

Quote : "All details subject to change." 

Hopefully that could mean 'Change to the better'. i.e. More Short Articulations for Pacific.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Any news on the release of pacific strings? I remember I read somewhere that it's going to be by the end of the month, can someone confirm? Some great sales going on right now and I just want to know if it's actually going to happen lol


----------



## artinro

Niv Schrieber said:


> Any news on the release of pacific strings? I remember I read somewhere that it's going to be by the end of the month, can someone confirm? Some great sales going on right now and I just want to know if it's actually going to happen lol


I spoke to Jasper just today and I can say the following: The library was recorded about two months ago but he is already almost finished. He's aiming to release in June and he tells me there will be a good loyalty discount


----------



## yiph2

artinro said:


> I spoke to Jasper just today and I can say the following: The library was recorded about two months ago but he is already almost finished. He's aiming to release in June and he tells me there will be a good loyalty discount


Loyalty discount with what?


----------



## Sovereign

yiph2 said:


> Loyalty discount with what?


Previous purchases, what else.


----------



## yiph2

Sovereign said:


> Previous purchases, what else.


No shit, but what products


----------



## lettucehat

yiph2 said:


> No shit, but what products


Pacific, obviously!!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

he works fast


----------



## Jett Hitt

I'm pretty sure the question here is which Performance Samples libraries qualify users to get the loyalty discount on Pacific. Would for example owning Solos by the Sea qualify, or do you have to own something more substantial like Con Moto?


----------



## Fry777

artinro said:


> I spoke to Jasper just today and I can say the following: The library was recorded about two months ago but he is already almost finished. He's aiming to release in June and he tells me there will be a good loyalty discount


----------



## ansthenia

artinro said:


> I spoke to Jasper just today and I can say the following: The library was recorded about two months ago but he is already almost finished. He's aiming to release in June and he tells me there will be a good loyalty discount


I once was about to buy Vista but just before confirming payment I backed out and didn't get it. I hope that still counts and I get loyalty discount....


----------



## Casiquire

ansthenia said:


> I once was about to buy Vista but just before confirming payment I backed out and didn't get it. I hope that still counts and I get loyalty discount....


I strongly considered Vista when it just went on sale, that's a form of loyalty too, right?


----------



## ansthenia

Casiquire said:


> I strongly considered Vista when it just went on sale, that's a form of loyalty too, right?


For sure, you should get loyalty discount too.


----------



## Soundbed

ansthenia said:


> I once was about to buy Vista but just before confirming payment I backed out and didn't get it. I hope that still counts and I get loyalty discount....


Yes I just got an email from Jasper saying you will get Pacific for free because of your above and beyond efforts to support PS and Vista. 

Also, I am trying to practice sarcasm and trolling on the Interwebs. How did I do?


----------



## ansthenia

Soundbed said:


> Yes I just got an email from Jasper saying you will get Pacific for free because of your above and beyond efforts to support PS and Vista.
> 
> Also, I am trying to practice sarcasm and trolling on the Interwebs. How did I do?


You did great, you deserve loyalty discount.


----------



## ism

Casiquire said:


> I strongly considered Vista when it just went on sale, that's a form of loyalty too, right?


I looked longing at it, that’s kind of a form of loyalty, no?


----------



## FireGS

Awesome.


----------



## tabulius

FireGS said:


> Awesome.



Sweet baby Jesus!


----------



## Sovereign

FireGS said:


> Awesome.



I should not have pressed play with volume at like 70%.


----------



## zolhof

I will reach the big 4-0 in a couple of days and decided to treat myself to, surprise surprise, another string library hehe Vista became such a pivotal element of my template, so naturally I'm following the Voyage and Pacific development with keen interest and already saving up for Voyage. I've talked to Jasper yesterday and he graciously enlightened me about what is on the table. Please keep in mind that everything is subject to change.

*2nd Violins*

Voyage could be said to have 2nd violins - and 3rd, in a way. Jasper recorded two sections of 3 violins - not everything matches 100% with the 5 violins, however this is still in development as well. The positioning wasn't specifically 2nd violin positioning, but it's such a small section that he's not sure if it would make a difference. Think of these extra violins more as layers.

There's also a 3-violin patch in Pacific (planned to be included) which can give more definition for legato.

He's not opposed to full-blown 2nd violins in future projects, but it's not a priority. In a "perfect world" with a big budget and a big team, it may be a different case, but most folks don't understand how limited his resources are. Until then other things will be prioritized when possible, which is totally reasonable to me.

*Pacific Strings*


16-12-10-8. Plus one 3-violin section
Legato is mostly slurred - mostly because on celli, sometimes he had at least one player do bow-change, dynamic depending.
Same note bow change repetitions (connected), similar to Vista, and at least at this point aimed to be included.
Just one attack type for the sus legs - but it's very multi-function - not hard marcato nor soft cresc attack. There are also marcatos which are very hard attack and they have multiple dynamics.

*Voyage Strings/Brass*

5-4-3-3 same as Vista. Plus two 3-violin sections. Lots of brass soloists.

*Pacific Woodwinds, Brass & Percussion*


1 picc, 2 ob, 2 cl, 2 fl, 2 bsn.
2 horns (best horns he's worked with), 2 trumpets (best trumpets he's worked with), 2 bass bones, 2 tuba, and then also will be adding (planned) 2 tenor bones and 2 contrabass bones.
Percussion is a mixture of things, somewhat diverse, no plans for tonal for Pacific, though Voyage perc has tonal. He was originally just going to do timp, piatti, and a bass drum, but it's expanded more now.

The plan is to release all Pacific modules (Strings, Woodwinds, Brass & Percussion) before Voyage.

*Pacific Noise Reduction*

Good news, at least for me, is that he's only doing super minimal noise reduction - just spot fixes (sounds) rather than noise floor work. It's a fairly noisy library by commercial standards, but it's just not something that bothers him. I personally don't think my Performance Samples libraries are any noisier than other libraries, it's something that rarely gets in my way. I understand some folks may prefer cleaner recordings, so if you need help removing a squeak or scratch don't hesitate to ask, it literally takes three mouse clicks to repair audio in Spectralayers.

*Voyage Vibrato*

Recording multiple types of vibrato requires essentially 2x recording time (depending), so although that's not happening for this, he did try to find a balance. In terms of legatos, he recorded original legatos which were a bit too molto and vintage for him, and the plan is to re-record them, so it's not as pigeonholed. We'll most likely get two types of vibratos.

The violins are primarily 1st chair musicians, so they do sound somewhat soloistic, which is absolutely awesome! You can hear it a 0:14 when violins land on that F6, with a very expressive and precise short vibrato.




That's exactly how the strings behave on my favorite scores and I often have to do some MIDI gymnastics in order to mimic this sound, while Voyage is achieving it effortlessly in a single patch. This sort of thinking outside the box and attention to detail will certainly pay off.

*Pacific release date*

Super close, mostly final stages now, he's working on other projects at the same time as well. Hoping for a late June release, though he could certainly release it earlier. Jasper is one guy building these libraries in his apartment, that's his passion and he appreciates people being moved by them.

Pinging @Toecutter you might want to read this since it addresses some of your concerns, which were doubts I had myself.  Quick disclaimer, I have no affiliation to Performance Samples other than being a happy customer. I hope this helps!


----------



## Toecutter

zolhof said:


> Pinging @Toecutter you might want to read this since it addresses some of your concerns, which were doubts I had myself.  Quick disclaimer, I have no affiliation to Performance Samples other than being a happy customer. I hope this helps!


Yea that didn't help my anxiety  But really thanks a lot, very helpful!

I don't want to offend anyone and have no ill will toward this company (can't name them XD) I'm very interested in a certain library XD now more than ever so please just give me your honest opinion



Spoiler



about the transition bumps and noises in this demo 

Please mods don't delete! I'm not taking a jab or anything stupid like that (we're on the same side) this is a legitimate question and I would like to hear the opinion of someone willing to pay this kind of money if that doesn't bother him.


----------



## lettucehat

Toecutter said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> about the transition bumps and noises in this demo
> 
> Please mods don't delete! I'm not taking a jab or anything stupid like that (we're on the same side) this is a legitimate question and I would like to hear the opinion of someone willing to pay this kind of money if that doesn't bother him.



From the get-go, those bumps have always just sounded to me like spiccato accompaniment behind the legato lines. The first one or two are a bit unexpected but then the underlying pattern becomes pretty clear, but I could be wrong.


----------



## zolhof

Toecutter said:


> Yea that didn't help my anxiety  But really thanks a lot, very helpful!
> 
> I don't want to offend anyone and have no ill will toward this company (can't name them XD) I'm very interested in a certain library XD now more than ever so please just give me your honest opinion
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> about the transition bumps and noises in this demo
> 
> Please mods don't delete! I'm not taking a jab or anything stupid like that (we're on the same side) this is a legitimate question and I would like to hear the opinion of someone willing to pay this kind of money if that doesn't bother him.



Oh yeah, I definitely heard that!  But the "bumps" you are referring to are the spiccato doing this rhythmic figure, just listen carefully a few times, and you will hear they are disconnected from the melody. Even easier, alternate muting the L and R channels, and you will instantly hear the transient of the shorts mostly on the right side, while the melody is mostly on the left side. The legato is absolutely creamy and delicious—there are 16 tracks on the Pacific playlist, take a listen to a few of them:






You are 100% on point regarding the noise, it's loud and clear (I heard others too), but that's because of the heavy processing on this particular version of the track boosting the high frequencies . If you hear the non-processed version, the noises are gone:

 


So yes, you definitely heard something, but it's a matter of finding the right balance when mixing. To me, at least, it sounds like an extreme example to highlight the top end of the strings. It's rare to hear developers beating up their own libraries, you can't be more transparent than that! And, by the way, there will be a good loyalty discount according to this post. There's no way I can afford Pacific at full price now.


----------



## Getsumen

zolhof said:


> *Pacific Noise Reduction*
> 
> Good news, at least for me, is that he's only doing super minimal noise reduction - just spot fixes (sounds) rather than noise floor work. It's a fairly noisy library by commercial standards, but it's just not something that bothers him. I personally don't think my Performance Samples libraries are any noisier than other libraries, it's something that rarely gets in my way. I understand some folks may prefer cleaner recordings, so if you need help removing a squeak or scratch don't hesitate to ask, it literally takes three mouse clicks to repair audio in Spectralayers.


Honestly, sometimes I prefer the more clinical no noise samples. I wish that they would've followed the NSS format of having the user have the option to swap between samples.

Not a huge deal, but would've been a neat small time saver


----------



## Toecutter

zolhof said:


> alternate muting the L and R channels


I soloed the left side and can't hear the bumps while the legato is more present... yea sounds like you are correct  



zolhof said:


> If you hear the non-processed version, the noises are gone


I didn't know there was another version  feeling really stupid now... yep no noises in this version. I still can hear a few noises in other demos (that I like a lot!) but knowing their reasoning it's much more acceptable. I write very exposed stuff and noises just take me out of the zone but I don't want to risk them overdoing the noise reduction and killing the sound that I like so much so yea, better leave it to the user to do the cleaning.I can live with that.


----------



## Toecutter

Getsumen said:


> Honestly, sometimes I prefer the more clinical no noise samples. I wish that they would've followed the NSS format of having the user have the option to swap between samples.
> 
> Not a huge deal, but would've been a neat small time saver


Yea I've used NSS as an example several times so I won't repeat myself and piss people off XD But in this case, I don't think it's worth the effort and time now that I know it's just spot fixes. It's easier to remove the fix later than to add life to the samples in case the noise reduction is overdone by the dev. Too risky, I have libraries that sound like crap because of that. Not to mention server costs to have double the sample size, I prefer a generous loyalty discount 


Anyway I don't feel comfortable hanging around so I'll wait with great enthusiasm for the release. Hope to hear some killer user demos. Thanks again @zolhof


----------



## artinro

Toecutter said:


> I soloed the left side and can't hear the bumps while the legato is more present... yea sounds like you are correct
> 
> 
> I didn't know there was another version  feeling really stupid now... yep no noises in this version. I still can hear a few noises in other demos (that I like a lot!) but knowing their reasoning it's much more acceptable. I write very exposed stuff and noises just take me out of the zone but I don't want to risk them overdoing the noise reduction and killing the sound that I like so much so yea, better leave it to the user to do the cleaning.I can live with that.


Toe, I'm glad King Kong turned out to be a bit more like Curious George after all . 

Light ribbing aside, I actually think you will really enjoy this library. I am testing it now and it's a delight to use. I believe you're going to be pleased with how it turns out.


----------



## gst98

artinro said:


> Toe, I'm glad King Kong turned out to be a bit more like Curious George after all .
> 
> Light ribbing aside, I actually think you will really enjoy this library. I am testing it now and it's a delight to use. I believe you're going to be pleased with how it turns out.


Do you mind answering a couple of questions? How is the vibrato compared to Vista and Con Moto? and what's the dynamic range like on the marcatos? Does it remain aggressive, or is it possible to get a bit of a tenuto out on the lower dynamics? thanks


----------



## Fry777

artinro said:


> I actually think you will really enjoy this library. I am testing it now and it's a delight to use. I believe you're going to be pleased with how it turns out.



Could you tell us if the lower layers feature less vibrato ? In Vista I found this could have been handled better


----------



## artinro

gst98 said:


> Do you mind answering a couple of questions? How is the vibrato compared to Vista and Con Moto? and what's the dynamic range like on the marcatos? Does it remain aggressive, or is it possible to get a bit of a tenuto out on the lower dynamics? thanks


Vibrato is less intense than Vista and the Marcatos have up to 5 dynamic layers, so a very good range. Marcatos are also quite playable!


----------



## zolhof

Toecutter said:


> I didn't know there was another version  feeling really stupid now... yep no noises in this version. I still can hear a few noises in other demos (that I like a lot!) but knowing their reasoning it's much more acceptable. I write very exposed stuff and noises just take me out of the zone but I don't want to risk them overdoing the noise reduction and killing the sound that I like so much so yea, better leave it to the user to do the cleaning.I can live with that.


Keep in mind that I only heard Pacific through the demos, so I can only comment based on that. There are two examples with the violins only that could help you get a sense of what to expect from Pacific in exposed situations. I did hear a few player artifacts but I love them? hehe This is pretty much the case with all my favorite scores (I can think of several examples from recent years), there's always the human element. Unless you are talking about noises like chairs moving, people chatting, loud thumps, etc, then I don't think you will have any problems.

I know how it feels to spend my hard-earned money and instantly regret it, even after countless hours of research and forum reading. Definitely not a good feeling, so don't feel bad, I appreciate you asking questions and pointing out things that bother you. If you have any questions specific to Vista, just let me know, I can show you some practical examples. Despite the hall and size differences, Pacific and Vista seem to blend really well—I want to experiment using Vista for divisi and Pacific for the full strings.


----------



## soulofsound

Toecutter said:


> Anyway I don't feel comfortable hanging around so I'll wait with great enthusiasm for the release. Hope to hear some killer user demos. Thanks again @zolhof


Are you effectively censored now?


----------



## Toecutter

zolhof said:


> If you have any questions specific


Thanks for real  I have a bunch of questions and will shoot a message if you don't mind. You @Johnny @Emmanuel Rousseau and @Dietz are friggin' badasses for putting up with my maniacal antics XD Appreciated!



soulofsound said:


> Are you effectively censored now?


Forums are hard places to run and I can obsess a bit too much and get worked up about this stuff... so nope, no censorship, more like a "chill man, we got you the first 20 times" I'm still talking, aren't I? Vi-control is awesome, I have no complaints!!


----------



## axb312

zolhof said:


> Oh yeah, I definitely heard that!  But the "bumps" you are referring to are the spiccato doing this rhythmic figure, just listen carefully a few times, and you will hear they are disconnected from the melody. Even easier, alternate muting the L and R channels, and you will instantly hear the transient of the shorts mostly on the right side, while the melody is mostly on the left side. The legato is absolutely creamy and delicious—there are 16 tracks on the Pacific playlist, take a listen to a few of them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are 100% on point regarding the noise, it's loud and clear (I heard others too), but that's because of the heavy processing on this particular version of the track boosting the high frequencies . If you hear the non-processed version, the noises are gone:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yes, you definitely heard something, but it's a matter of finding the right balance when mixing. To me, at least, it sounds like an extreme example to highlight the top end of the strings. It's rare to hear developers beating up their own libraries, you can't be more transparent than that! And, by the way, there will be a good loyalty discount according to this post. There's no way I can afford Pacific at full price now.



I made a mistake purchasing Oceania 2 after purchasing Oceania 1. To me Jasper makes incremental changes which can be a bit frustrating to the end user on an extremely limited budget (like me).

Wondering what the major difference is between pacific and voyage, given that Vista sounds pretty big even though it has small sections.

Demos do sound great. Only one type of legato? gotta see the price tag...


----------



## artinro

axb312 said:


> Wondering what the major difference is between pacific and voyage, given that Vista sounds pretty big even though it has small sections.


Hey axb, this is from the FAQs on the pacific page and delves into your exact question:


----------



## axb312

artinro said:


> Hey axb, this is from the FAQs on the pacific page and delves into your exact question:


Thank you. How agile are Pacific and Voyage? Can either handle fast runs?


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Any update on how many, and which type of Short-Articulations will be included in Pacific Strings ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## artinro

axb312 said:


> Thank you. How agile are Pacific and Voyage? Can either handle fast runs?


Voyage I’m not sure, as it’s still being built. Pacific doesn’t have anything specifically for fast runs.


----------



## gst98

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any update on how many, and which type of Short-Articulations will be included in Pacific Strings ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


No, I'm not sure why it would change from the original he recorded.


----------



## muziksculp

gst98 said:


> No, I'm not sure why it would change from the original he recorded.


So, only Spiccatto, I find that very limited. 🙄


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> No, I'm not sure why it would change from the original he recorded.


Because the last time it was mentioned the word was that the whole thing was still a little bit in flux and there might be changes through the process


----------



## muziksculp

Honestly, How can a serious orchestral string library have one short articulation (Spicc.) ?

Makes no sense to me. Especially given this is NOT another Legato only PS Library.


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> Because the last time it was mentioned the word was that the whole thing was still a little bit in flux and there might be changes through the process


Was it? Voyage definitely still is, but I don't recall there being hints of any changes going to be made. maybe I'm forgetting.



muziksculp said:


> Honestly, How can a serious orchestral string library have one short articulation (Spicc.) ?
> 
> Makes no sense to me. Especially given this is NOT another Legato only PS Library.


Well, a couple of things. I get the impression most of his customers are in the trailer world. Hence why there are so many legato, spiccato and FFF libraries. Even then, most modern music doesn't demand much articulation variation.

Also, while on paper I would like staccato, potato to tenuto etc, they get far less use than the 3 short Pacific has (spicc, marc, pizz ). You also have to remember his libraries are very playable. His free brass libraries get so much mileage out of a single articulation. Personally, I'm much pickier about having plenty of short articulations with brass than strings.

But if you haven't read the big post on the last page, take a look. I think you'll get an appreciation of how this is just one guy making these and the budget is very limited to what he can do, and sacrifices have to be made. Jasper clearly values doing fewer articulations but in more detail. 

What you call 'serious' libraries compromise in other ways like limited layers or round robins. 
-MSS just came out and it has 4 spiccato RRs!! 
-SF SSS doesn't have staccato, and its marcato is _very_ limited. 
-Cinestrings only has staccato and sfz over pacific (although the sfz is almost the same as marcato).
-Berlin Strings has lots of articulations - although it varies widely in terms of depth like only 3 spicc layers, 3 long layers, 2 espressivo layers. Some of them have lots of RRs other have very few. And they balanced the costs by doing it with fewer players.

So every library has its shortcomings you just have to choose which flaws you can live with.


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> Was it? Voyage definitely still is, but I don't recall there being hints of any changes going to be made. maybe I'm forgetting.
> 
> 
> Well, a couple of things. I get the impression most of his customers are in the trailer world. Hence why there are so many legato, spiccato and FFF libraries. Even then, most modern music doesn't demand much articulation variation.
> 
> Also, while on paper I would like staccato, potato to tenuto etc, they get far less use than the 3 short Pacific has (spicc, marc, pizz ). You also have to remember his libraries are very playable. His free brass libraries get so much mileage out of a single articulation. Personally, I'm much pickier about having plenty of short articulations with brass than strings.
> 
> But if you haven't read the big post on the last page, take a look. I think you'll get an appreciation of how this is just one guy making these and the budget is very limited to what he can do, and sacrifices have to be made. Jasper clearly values doing fewer articulations but in more detail.
> 
> What you call 'serious' libraries compromise in other ways like limited layers or round robins.
> -MSS just came out and it has 4 spiccato RRs!!
> -SF SSS doesn't have staccato, and its marcato is _very_ limited.
> -Cinestrings only has staccato and sfz over pacific (although the sfz is almost the same as marcato).
> -Berlin Strings has lots of articulations - although it varies widely in terms of depth like only 3 spicc layers, 3 long layers, 2 espressivo layers. Some of them have lots of RRs other have very few. And they balanced the costs by doing it with fewer players.
> 
> So every library has its shortcomings you just have to choose which flaws you can live with.



I could be thinking of Voyage, but Pacific did jump from just strings to a bunch of other instruments and i don't think Jasper likes to tie himself down too much

Though i think there's at least some hope that the library responds so well to how it's played that the other shorts aren't even needed


----------



## lettucehat

Yes, I've been hoping for playable marcatos in the vein of Caspian and the Angry series. And we can hear that in the recent demo. It may be functionally the same as recording staccatos, though it obviously doesn't hurt to have more of everything (except pricewise).


----------



## RonOrchComp

gst98 said:


> Also, while on paper I would like staccato, potato to tenuto etc, they get far less use than the 3 short Pacific has (spicc, marc, pizz ). Personally, I'm much pickier about having plenty of short articulations with brass than strings.



Well, that's YOU. That's not everyone else.

And please don't bore us with the "well, not everyone writes trailer music". nonsense. Anyone with half a brain knows that. And anyone with half a brain knows that you need spic when you do not write trailer music.



gst98 said:


> What you call 'serious' libraries compromise in other ways like limited layers or round robins.
> -MSS just came out and it has 4 spiccato RRs!!
> -SF SSS doesn't have staccato, and its marcato is _very_ limited.
> -Cinestrings only has staccato and sfz over pacific


Incorrect. CS has stac AND spic. And marc. And pizz.


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> I could be thinking of Voyage, but Pacific did jump from just strings to a bunch of other instruments and i don't think Jasper likes to tie himself down too much
> 
> Though i think there's at least some hope that the library responds so well to how it's played that the other shorts aren't even needed



Yes but importantly those recordings of brass and winds are going to be sold as separate products. In the past he’s said that with voyage there are things he wants to add but it would mean the price goes up. I imagine it’s the same with Pacific, and he may want to add stuff but can’t if he wants to meet this price point.


----------



## gst98

RonOrchComp said:


> Well, that's YOU. That's not everyone else.
> 
> And please don't bore us with the "well, not everyone writes trailer music". nonsense. Anyone with half a brain knows that. And anyone with half a brain knows that you need spic when you do not write trailer music.
> 
> 
> Incorrect. CS has stac AND spic. And marc. And pizz.



calm down mate, jesus.



RonOrchComp said:


> And anyone with half a brain knows that you need spic when you do not write trailer music.


?


----------



## muziksculp

Spicc.
Stacc.
Stacc.isimo
Pizz.

That imho. would be good enough for Pacific.

I'm also OK, if there was only a Stacc. but I can edit the length via a slider. to shorten or lenghten it to taste, and dynamically via CC. in addition to Pizz., and Spicc.


----------



## lettucehat

RonOrchComp said:


> Incorrect. CS has stac AND spic. And marc. And pizz.


He said _over Pacific_, meaning beyond what Pacific has (spic and marc).


----------



## RonOrchComp

gst98 said:


> calm down mate, jesus.


Why would you say calm down, when I am perfectly calm? That makes no sense.


gst98 said:


> ?


??


----------



## Toecutter




----------



## CT

artinro said:


> Marcatos are also quite playable!


Yes. For whatever my opinion is worth... I also think the way these marcatos function might merit reserving judgement about a lack of staccatos.


----------



## Snarf

Mike T said:


> Yes. For whatever my opinion is worth... I also think the way these marcatos function might merit reserving judgement about a lack of staccatos.


This. Just posting this (FFF) _marcato only_ demo again:


----------



## FireGS

Snarf said:


> This. Just posting this (FFF) _marcato only_ demo again:






FireGS said:


> Awesome.


----------



## Snarf

FireGS said:


>


Yeah I know, that's why I said 'again', lol.
I wasn't trying to steal your thunder! It was just a reminder that the marcato patches seem to have Jasper's adaptive releases approach - adding to the multiple shorts discussion etc.


----------



## FireGS

Snarf said:


> Yeah I know, that's why I said 'again', lol.
> I wasn't trying to steal your thunder! It was just a reminder that the marcato patches seem to have Jasper's adaptive releases approach - adding to the multiple shorts discussion etc.


I'm just messin' 

But yeah, I agree. The Angry Brass Pro Soloists really solidified my thought that marcatos with really good release samples can actually beat fixed length shorts on a lot of material. Aaron Venture (kinda?), PS, and NSS get this right (no surprise).


----------



## Getsumen

FireGS said:


> I'm just messin'
> 
> But yeah, I agree. The Angry Brass Pro Soloists really solidified my thought that marcatos with really good release samples can actually beat fixed length shorts on a lot of material. Aaron Venture (kinda?), PS, and NSS get this right (no surprise).


I went through the about page on the site and listened to some of the demos. It really surprised me as to how the samples were actually made. You definitely CANNOT tell that the samples are sort of "reconstructed" together that way. Definitely an interesting piece of tech


----------



## FireGS

Getsumen said:


> I went through the about page on the site and listened to some of the demos. It really surprised me as to how the samples were actually made. You definitely CANNOT tell that the samples are sort of "reconstructed" together that way. Definitely an interesting piece of tech


Yep. If you're looking for a damn-close-to-real performance...from samples.... ... I don't think there's a better method out there yet. At least, not as quick of a method.


----------



## JF

Please someone suggest to Jasper to include a recording of the noise of the space to use as a noise-floor.


----------



## Johnny

JF said:


> Please someone suggest to Jasper to include a recording of the noise of the space to use as a noise-floor.


You have a very strong suggestion that would equally benefit those that would prefer de-noised samples as well  If we did have a 2 to 3 second (or longer) recording of the Hall noise included in the sample package? It would be extremely beneficial for those that wanted to RX the hall noise out of the samples later on in post.  Great suggestion!


----------



## zolhof

JF said:


> Please someone suggest to Jasper to include a recording of the noise of the space to use as a noise-floor.


That's definitely an idea, according to Jasper. I had mentioned Cinesamples' Sony Room Tone to him and he said he would think on it, perhaps a WAV file at least.


----------



## zolhof

muziksculp said:


> Spicc.
> Stacc.
> Stacc.isimo
> Pizz.
> 
> That imho. would be good enough for Pacific.
> 
> I'm also OK, if there was only a Stacc. but I can edit the length via a slider. to shorten or lenghten it to taste, and dynamically via CC. in addition to Pizz., and Spicc.


Hi muziksculp! I asked something very similar regarding the spiccatos—if they would have length variations like in Fluid Shorts, but that is not happening for Pacific. Though Voyage has a good variety of shorts (styles).


----------



## muziksculp

zolhof said:


> Hi muziksculp! I asked something very similar regarding the spiccatos—if they would have length variations like in Fluid Shorts, but that is not happening for Pacific. Though Voyage has a good variety of shorts (styles).


Kind of a bummer, so Pacific will only have a Spicc. short ? 

I really hope that's not the final decision.


----------



## Toecutter

zolhof said:


> That's definitely an idea, according to Jasper. I had mentioned Cinesamples' Sony Room Tone to him and he said he would think on it, perhaps a WAV file at least.


That's good news, make it happen  It would solve a lot of my concerns about the noise.


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> Kind of a bummer, so Pacific will only have a Spicc. short ?
> 
> I really hope that's not the final decision.


Bummer yep but I thought that was very clear already? It's always been spicc and pizz. Maybe it will be "playable" as the Musical Sampling stuff? That's how Caspian works anyway, multi-purpose single patches, not perfect but they do reps fine. I can only imagine that the dedicated spiccato and marcato patches will work even better.


----------



## Toecutter

I remember Mike saying this was recorded live with no key switching, 4 takes consisting of horns, trumpets, trombones and tuba. Sounds pretty good for no midi work.


----------



## zolhof

muziksculp said:


> Kind of a bummer, so Pacific will only have a Spicc. short ?
> 
> I really hope that's not the final decision.


Pacific is 110% feature locked now. 

Sustains + Legatos
Spiccatos
Pizzicatos
Marcatos
Trills (HT+WT)
Unmeasured Tremolos
Sordino Sustains
Harmonics / Soft Sustains
FX (risers and various hits)

As pointed out above, Performance Samples libraries are very playable, and you will probably get a lot of mileage out of the spiccato, marcato and sustain patches. I say probably because I have no hands-on experience with Pacific, so take that with a grain of salt. AFAIK the marcato you do have short releases which might be staccato-like but there are not very many round robins. You can double them though with the spiccato. Not saying it's an optimal solution but it is something you can do. Sounds like Voyage might be the best fit for you. In any case, a spiccato demo is expected, so keep your ears up.


----------



## zolhof

I'm sitting on the fence between Pacific and Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings—not only they are two completely different libraries, but two developers with very different approaches to communication, almost polar opposites. In one side, we have Performance Samples spilling all the beans, sharing audio demos and sparing no detail on the limitation of their products—almost like an open development. While on the other side, we have Sonokinetic, taking a more conservative approach and keeping it tucked in until the very last minute. As a small fish customer in a large sea of non-refundable goodies, I definitely prefer the Performance Samples way of conducting business.

But it's ultimately a matter of which library will best serve my needs. Do I need comprehensive? Best to look at SOS. Besides, Sonokinetic has a track record of updating and supporting their libraries even after years of release. It's a safe bet and IMHO the best bang for your buck. Do I need the most authentic out-of-the-box sound and to keep things simple and efficient? Best to look at Pacific. This is obviously my personal opinion based on my experience with previous Sonokinetic's phrase-based strings, I do like the Zlin sound, however, how that sound will translate into a full-blown performance library it's a mystery left unsolved to me.

More food for thought:

*Pacific Philosophy*

This wasn't a super detailed modular or extensive library plan from the beginning, the main intent was to do a full string library for the first time commercially and then move from there in the future. Personally, Performance Samples was always about specialized, CPU/RAM efficient, little tools that I could pull out of my bag of tricks and instantly improve a track. This is going to be the first "everything in one box" type of library ever produced commercially by Performance Samples. And to be fair, considering how playable their libraries are, I think we are getting a nice selection of articulations. Again, my subjective opinion without using the library yet.

*Production*

Essentially the idea was something that Jasper could produce fairly fast but effectively and not so experimental which is where the time suck can be. Pacific was built mostly within 5-6 weeks of the sessions. Brass, winds and percussion are gradually getting done, and the plan is to get them out after the strings.

*Present and the Future*

This is Jasper's favorite space and there are plans to get a lot more recording done there, but, as far as Pacific, don't count on it. He can't commit to expansions, so anyone interested in this library should not have any expectations and take Pacific for what it is now. Legatos are "far superior to Vista" (opinion), and the "smoothest" he's done so far, commercially, most likely. Demos are coming.

There's a lot to be explored with shorts in the future, but it isn't just something which can be categorized into staccato or staccatissimo. Jasper's been working on something for Voyage which are called motion shorts:

View attachment v_shorts.mp4





There's a lot planned for "sloppy" and active shorts. The sort of thing which can sometimes sound peculiar in isolation but will work in context.

Phew!  I hope it helps.


----------



## gst98

zolhof said:


> There's a lot planned for "sloppy" and active shorts. The sort of thing which can sometimes sound peculiar in isolation but will work in context.


This is a really underexplored area, where samples can be too perfect. I'd also really like to see JB's take on measured trems.

Do you know anything about the depth of the brass section of Pacific? seems like he got it recorded pretty quick, so I imagine it's not 1:1 the same as the strings.


----------



## Sovereign

Owning a couple of Sonokinetic's multisampled libraries I have to be honest, am not expecting some sort of great miracle there if it's anything like their woodwinds ensemble.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

i love the idea of a specialised measured trem and arpeggio lib.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Assuming that there is a decent intro price and a good loyalty discount, Pacific seems like a no-brainer to me. $1k seems a bit steep, however. I realize that he is a 1 man show and needs to recoup costs and, obviously, make some money. I just can't help but think that there is a sweet spot where you sell ten times as many copies and make a lot more money than pricing it at $1k. Having said that, his refreshing honesty is worth a whole lot. I am so tired of the used car salesman approach to marketing samples that I am far more likely to take a chance on Jasper than I am some other vendor at this point. Just once I'd like to see one of the fancy vendors post a five minute speed write.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Honestly anything by Jasper is a no Brainer for me. I just love his approach, and how playable all of his samples are without sacrificing the sound which is amazing. Never been let down by his libraries.


----------



## CT

Whatever my opinion is worth, which may be nothing to some of you since I'm Volatile Forum Guy, or because you think being a tester makes me biased or a $hill (note: I have received free products from Botdog Samples)... Pacific is thus far a bit of a revelation for me, despite my dumbly picky tendencies, and I'm expecting it to be my string library of choice for a lot of what I do, in its final form. I do not miss staccatos at all given what the marcatos can do....


----------



## Toecutter

Hey since this turned into a confessional, I gotta a confession to make concerning a certain library starting with the letter V.... I was wrong? 






Just heard exposed strings that blew my socks off. Whatever I'm trying to do with Elite Strings and Soaring Strings but better. Like not even close ffs  btw no noise build up, 14 tracks





I thought it was fake at first (yep call me a cynical asshole) but I got the audio stems and ate my words. SHAME. Hope it gets posted here, really do. Heard there are no plans to discontinue the library anytime soon, it's supposed to be different than Voy... so yea we're safe. Now waiting for another sale, how predictable XD P..... will be better? Jesus

Just want to point out how amazing this community is, "musicians helping musicians" in the truest sense of the words!


----------



## artinro

Mike T said:


> Whatever my opinion is worth, which may be nothing to some of you since I'm Volatile Forum Guy, or because you think being a tester makes me biased or a $hill (note: I have received free products from Botdog Samples)... Pacific is thus far a bit of a revelation for me, despite my dumbly picky tendencies, and I'm expecting it to be my string library of choice for a lot of what I do, in its final form. I do not miss staccatos at all given what the marcatos can do....


Hi Folks, 

As another tester, let me echo Mike T here. Don’t get too caught up on what articulations are or aren’t on the product page. I really think shorts are covered super well, and the marcatos do a stellar job of taking you from anything slightly longer than spiccato all the way up to a long sustain. Super, super playable too.

Allow me to give a short demonstration. Here is an excerpt from the 5th movement of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique. I specifically chose this little passage as a test for the library because we all know how brutally tough it is to try to mimic well known works. It’s also a good test because the excerpt requires many types of “shorts” some of which verge into “long” territory. I wanted to stress test how flexible Pacific might be here. The following example uses two patches per instrument: Spiccato and Marcato (with Trills for the few moments those are required in the violins and violas). That’s it. No legatos, no sustains, nothing else.

This was done in 20 minutes, played in by hand, and I specifically did ZERO processing and also almost no tweaking. Default mics, no eq, no reverb, almost no CC editing, no articulation balancing. Nothing. I also did not run this through any kind of mastering chain. This is straight out of the box with alpha patches. Could it be tweaked, could it take some light EQ etc…? Of course. But the point here was to highlight what just two patches per instrument (plus a couple of fleeting trills for violins and violas) can do played straight out of the box. I think it also shows off how lovely this room sounds.

Finally, Jasper tells me that the marcatos were almost an afterthought in this library and that there “isn't much going on” as far as technology/performance with these. He plans more advanced development of this type of articulation in the future and feels they will yield much more convincing results. Here’s a direct quote: "there's a lot of room for growth in terms of musical sloppiness, repetitions, releases, and possibly marc-specific interval-esque sampling, and integration with legatos but in a way where its built together from the ground up rather than ‘just slapped together.’

So that has me excited, because the marcatos in Pacific are already excellent and versatile, as I’ve attempted to show here. 


P.S. This is strings only. Perhaps I’ll fill out the rest of the orchestra when the the other sections of Pacific are complete, just so everyone can get a sense of how it all blends together.


----------



## CT

I haven't had enough time yet to do a stress test of that calibre, but holy crap I'm glad you did.


----------



## Eloy

artinro said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> As another tester, let me echo Mike T here. Don’t get too caught up on what articulations are or aren’t on the product page. I really think shorts are covered super well, and the marcatos do a stellar job of taking you from anything slightly longer than spiccato all the way up to a long sustain. Super, super playable too.
> 
> Allow me to give a short demonstration. Here is an excerpt from the 5th movement of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique. I specifically chose this little passage as a test for the library because we all know how brutally tough it is to try to mimic well known works. It’s also a good test because the excerpt requires many types of “shorts” some of which verge into “long” territory. I wanted to stress test how flexible Pacific might be here. The following example uses two patches per instrument: Spiccato and Marcato (with Trills for the few moments those are required in the violins and violas). That’s it. No legatos, no sustains, nothing else.
> 
> This was done in 20 minutes, played in by hand, and I specifically did ZERO processing and also almost no tweaking. Default mics, no eq, no reverb, almost no CC editing, no articulation balancing. Nothing. I also did not run this through any kind of mastering chain. This is straight out of the box with alpha patches. Could it be tweaked, could it take some light EQ etc…? Of course. But the point here was to highlight what just two patches per instrument (plus a couple of fleeting trills for violins and violas) can do played straight out of the box. I think it also shows off how lovely this room sounds.
> 
> Finally, Jasper tells me that the marcatos were almost an afterthought in this library and that there “isn't much going on” as far as technology/performance with these. He plans more advanced development of this type of articulation in the future and feels they will yield much more convincing results. Here’s a direct quote: "there's a lot of room for growth in terms of musical sloppiness, repetitions, releases, and possibly marc-specific interval-esque sampling, and integration with legatos but in a way where its built together from the ground up rather than ‘just slapped together.’
> 
> So that has me excited, because the marcatos in Pacific are already excellent and versatile, as I’ve attempted to show here.
> 
> 
> P.S. This is strings only. Perhaps I’ll fill out the rest of the orchestra when the the other sections of Pacific are complete, just so everyone can get a sense of how it all blends together.


Beautiful! Thank you


----------



## Toecutter

artinro said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> As another tester, let me echo Mike T here. Don’t get too caught up on what articulations are or aren’t on the product page. I really think shorts are covered super well, and the marcatos do a stellar job of taking you from anything slightly longer than spiccato all the way up to a long sustain. Super, super playable too.
> 
> Allow me to give a short demonstration. Here is an excerpt from the 5th movement of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique. I specifically chose this little passage as a test for the library because we all know how brutally tough it is to try to mimic well known works. It’s also a good test because the excerpt requires many types of “shorts” some of which verge into “long” territory. I wanted to stress test how flexible Pacific might be here. The following example uses two patches per instrument: Spiccato and Marcato (with Trills for the few moments those are required in the violins and violas). That’s it. No legatos, no sustains, nothing else.
> 
> This was done in 20 minutes, played in by hand, and I specifically did ZERO processing and also almost no tweaking. Default mics, no eq, no reverb, almost no CC editing, no articulation balancing. Nothing. I also did not run this through any kind of mastering chain. This is straight out of the box with alpha patches. Could it be tweaked, could it take some light EQ etc…? Of course. But the point here was to highlight what just two patches per instrument (plus a couple of fleeting trills for violins and violas) can do played straight out of the box. I think it also shows off how lovely this room sounds.
> 
> Finally, Jasper tells me that the marcatos were almost an afterthought in this library and that there “isn't much going on” as far as technology/performance with these. He plans more advanced development of this type of articulation in the future and feels they will yield much more convincing results. Here’s a direct quote: "there's a lot of room for growth in terms of musical sloppiness, repetitions, releases, and possibly marc-specific interval-esque sampling, and integration with legatos but in a way where its built together from the ground up rather than ‘just slapped together.’
> 
> So that has me excited, because the marcatos in Pacific are already excellent and versatile, as I’ve attempted to show here.
> 
> 
> P.S. This is strings only. Perhaps I’ll fill out the rest of the orchestra when the the other sections of Pacific are complete, just so everyone can get a sense of how it all blends together.


This is suicide for any library XD Great room sound and strings tone, it only took me 3 seconds to know this is in fact a PS library, talk about having personality! I'll link this post when people question my beef with MSS' room 

This is the first example to sound like 46 players, I always found the other demos too similar to the Vs (not a bad thing, just similar) but this is different and cool!

Unfortunately I can tell the shorts are very limited, especially the releases, they sound repetitive and not expressive enough imo. Listen to the original (I know, not fair, just trying to give an example) and see the pronounced vibrato in the last accented note of those triplets 

I think that's what @zolhof meant about Voy sounding somewhat soloistic @ 0:14? 

Also not fair to comment about the runs, or the dynamics (lack of) because I don't think that's what Pac was intended to do. At least not under 20 minutes, you are nuts XD I think Voy will do a better job at more demanding pieces but I thank you for exposing the guts of the shorts here, very helpful


----------



## muziksculp

@artinro ,

Very interesting post about the shorts of Pacific. Lovely sounding demo as well. 

With regards to the Marcato being very flexible, I guess they can be played to emulate varying lengths of Staccato (depending on the lenght of the note) ? Also curious how reponsive were the dynamic layers to your playing ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## artinro

Toecutter said:


> This is suicide for any library XD Great room sound and strings tone,


True. Exactly why I wanted to run pacific through this test. I think it handled it better than most (all?) others I have, and I have them all.



Toecutter said:


> Unfortunately I can tell the shorts are very limited, especially the releases, they sound repetitive and not expressive enough imo. Listen to the original (I know, not fair, just trying to give an example) and see the pronounced vibrato in the last accented note of those triplets


Well, sure. Anything compared to a great live recording will come up a short. I think I could squeeze more variation out the performance, but the point was really just to play it in live in one pass, do the bare minimum of tweaking, and see how it fared. My conclusion was/is, that it fared better than my other libraries for that test. 


Toecutter said:


> Also not fair to comment about the runs, or the dynamics (lack of) because I don't think that's what Pac was intended to do.


The library is actually very very dynamic. This isn't the greatest snippet to showcase a wide dynamic range. True that the library isn't meant to do runs. Correct.



Toecutter said:


> you are nuts


Guilty. And I've been called far worse   (maybe)



Toecutter said:


> XD I think Voy will do a better job at more demanding pieces but


I don't know if "better" is the right word. Different. Smaller ensemble, different room. Maybe one is better for one project, another for another. I plan to have both (and I also have Vista and CM) plus all the other libraries. As your youtube link highlights, when the goal is emulating a real orchestra, having a ton of options is your friend! But I think Pacific does a stellar job right out of the box in 20 minutes (remember, no tweaking or processing or verb) where other libraries might not. IMHO, of course.



Toecutter said:


> I thank you for exposing the guts of the shorts here, very helpful


My pleasure. I had fun with it.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> @artinro ,
> 
> Very interesting post about the shorts of Pacific. Lovely sounding demo as well.


Thanks Muzik!



muziksculp said:


> With regards to the Marcato being very flexible, I guess they can be played to emulate varying lengths of Staccato (depending on the lenght of the note) ?


Exactly. Correct. And also longer than staccato all the way up to full sustains. Very flexible. 



muziksculp said:


> Also curious how reponsive were the dynamic layers to your playing ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


The library is quite, quite dynamic. That said, this snippet is almost all in the f to ff range, so it wasn't meant to highlight the library’s overall range.


----------



## CT

Yes, I've just tried a Beethoven excerpt which calls for the kind of short-juggling that is normally a big headache, and it was a breeze with Pacific marcatos+spiccatos. Regarding dynamics: Beethoven asks for _ff _in this passage and I found myself holding back from how hard I could really dig in, to more fit the type of sound I'm used to from real performances of the piece.


----------



## Toecutter

artinro said:


> Well, sure. Anything compared to a great live recording will come up a short. I think I could squeeze more variation out the performance, but the point was really just to play it in live in one pass, do the bare minimum of tweaking, and see how it fared. My conclusion was/is, that it fared better than my other libraries for that test.


Yea this is very demanding for any library for sure! Did you quantize or use step input for the fast stuff? Is this as short as it goes or can you tweak the release of the samples? Wrench tool? Do you find it better than Fluid Shorts? It would be nice to hear a comparison 



artinro said:


> Guilty. And I've been called far worse   (maybe)


I totally didn't mean as a pejorative thing, I meant nuts as in my kind of nuts: brave, adventurous, bold... sorry if it sounded like something else 



artinro said:


> I don't know if "better" is the right word. Different. Smaller ensemble, different room. Maybe one is better for one project, another for another. I plan to have both (and I also have Vista and CM) plus all the other libraries. As your youtube link highlights, when the goal is emulating a real orchestra, having a ton of options is your friend! But I think Pacific does a stellar job right out of the box in 20 minutes (remember, no tweaking or processing or verb) where other libraries might not. IMHO, of course.


Yea I think Voy will have a more focused sound, at least that's the impression I get from demos. You said you used the default microphone, is it the decca? btw what other microphones are available? They are the same for all instruments? I'd love to hear the close microphone, if possible, I think it can help you to get a sharper sound of the spiccatos. Thanks for doing this!


----------



## mikeh-375

artinro said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> As another tester, let me echo Mike T here. Don’t get too caught up on what articulations are or aren’t on the product page. I really think shorts are covered super well, and the marcatos do a stellar job of taking you from anything slightly longer than spiccato all the way up to a long sustain. Super, super playable too.
> 
> Allow me to give a short demonstration. Here is an excerpt from the 5th movement of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique. I specifically chose this little passage as a test for the library because we all know how brutally tough it is to try to mimic well known works. It’s also a good test because the excerpt requires many types of “shorts” some of which verge into “long” territory. I wanted to stress test how flexible Pacific might be here. The following example uses two patches per instrument: Spiccato and Marcato (with Trills for the few moments those are required in the violins and violas). That’s it. No legatos, no sustains, nothing else.
> 
> This was done in 20 minutes, played in by hand, and I specifically did ZERO processing and also almost no tweaking. Default mics, no eq, no reverb, almost no CC editing, no articulation balancing. Nothing. I also did not run this through any kind of mastering chain. This is straight out of the box with alpha patches. Could it be tweaked, could it take some light EQ etc…? Of course. But the point here was to highlight what just two patches per instrument (plus a couple of fleeting trills for violins and violas) can do played straight out of the box. I think it also shows off how lovely this room sounds.
> 
> Finally, Jasper tells me that the marcatos were almost an afterthought in this library and that there “isn't much going on” as far as technology/performance with these. He plans more advanced development of this type of articulation in the future and feels they will yield much more convincing results. Here’s a direct quote: "there's a lot of room for growth in terms of musical sloppiness, repetitions, releases, and possibly marc-specific interval-esque sampling, and integration with legatos but in a way where its built together from the ground up rather than ‘just slapped together.’
> 
> So that has me excited, because the marcatos in Pacific are already excellent and versatile, as I’ve attempted to show here.
> 
> 
> P.S. This is strings only. Perhaps I’ll fill out the rest of the orchestra when the the other sections of Pacific are complete, just so everyone can get a sense of how it all blends together.


This has bought me back on board (again) after several considerable reservations. I'm always looking for concert style strings these days so nice one @artinro as you've proven their flexibility to me. I believe they could be a good addition to my template. What did you do for 2nd violins, transposition?


----------



## artinro

Toecutter said:


> Yea this is very demanding for any library for sure! Did you quantize or use step input for the fast stuff?



Just played it in by hand and fixed any instances of severe sloppy playing after the fact.



Toecutter said:


> Is this as short as it goes or can you tweak the release of the samples? Wrench tool? Do you find it better than Fluid Shorts? It would be nice to hear a comparison


Fluid shorts are great, but only one dynamic. The spiccatos here are extremely dynamic, I think up to 15 layers. But I bet fluid shorts would blend beautifully. Same hall. 



Toecutter said:


> I totally didn't mean as a pejorative thing, I meant nuts as in my kind of nuts: brave, adventurous, bold... sorry if it sounded like something else


Oh I know. I wasn't offended. Just joking back. 



Toecutter said:


> You said you used the default microphone, is it the decca? btw what other microphones are available? They are the same for all instruments?


Default is a mix between an AB mic and the close. I didn't touch that at all in this little snippet. You could easily adjust to taste, though.


----------



## artinro

mikeh-375 said:


> This has bought me back on board (again) after several considerable reservations. I'm always looking for concert style strings these days so nice one @artinro as you've proven their flexibility to me. I believe they could be a good addition to my template. What did you do for 2nd violins, transposition?


Glad you enjoyed. For this particular example, I just deleted moments of overlap between the 1sts and 2nds (There aren't many here). Since it's a large section of 16 violins, those few moments didn't really lose much potency. That said, you could certainly use the transposition trick and tweak the panning a bit to get the seconds. Would be no problem.


----------



## Sovereign

So are we looking at an early or late June release?

The articulation list on the PS website has no precise information on the number of dynamics per art. Any of the testers willing to lift the veil here?


----------



## Toecutter

Sovereign said:


> So are we looking at an early or late June release?
> 
> The articulation list on the PS website has no precise information on the number of dynamics per art. Any of the testers willing to lift the veil here?


According to what was posted pages ago, late June. No precise number of dyn layers other than what is on the website and this thread, I think they vary but I was told the strings module will be around 35GB which is a lot, almost the entire PS catalog so there's a lot of samples-dyn in this one


----------



## CT

The dynamics are well above "industry standard" numbers.

It varies a bit between sections, up and down (at these numbers a little negative variance still results in_ a lot)_ but, just from the violins: the marcatos (and legatos I believe) both have 5, the con sordino longs have 9, tremolos have 8, trills have 6, spiccatos look to be 8 as well, pizzicatos 9, as well as a harmonics patch with 6 layers, which seems to also include very soft (sul tasto/flautando territory) sustains in the lower range. RRs hover around 7-9.

The feeling of expressiveness on a modwheel/breath controller with these is something that you are quickly spoiled by.


----------



## mikeh-375

^^carry on like that Mike and I'll sue you for making me spend money.


----------



## CT

If you're the first person on this forum to feel the need to sue me, it's a victory.

I think we're on our way into a Golden Age for orchestral sampling. Lots of exciting things on the horizon.


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> the con sordino longs have 9,


Wow ! I want to hear these 9 dynamics Sordino Longs  They must sound delicious.


----------



## CT

It's what I've been after from sampled muted strings for ~10 years.


----------



## Simon Ravn

artinro said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> As another tester, let me echo Mike T here. Don’t get too caught up on what articulations are or aren’t on the product page. I really think shorts are covered super well, and the marcatos do a stellar job of taking you from anything slightly longer than spiccato all the way up to a long sustain. Super, super playable too.
> 
> Allow me to give a short demonstration. Here is an excerpt from the 5th movement of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique. I specifically chose this little passage as a test for the library because we all know how brutally tough it is to try to mimic well known works. It’s also a good test because the excerpt requires many types of “shorts” some of which verge into “long” territory. I wanted to stress test how flexible Pacific might be here. The following example uses two patches per instrument: Spiccato and Marcato (with Trills for the few moments those are required in the violins and violas). That’s it. No legatos, no sustains, nothing else.
> 
> This was done in 20 minutes, played in by hand, and I specifically did ZERO processing and also almost no tweaking. Default mics, no eq, no reverb, almost no CC editing, no articulation balancing. Nothing. I also did not run this through any kind of mastering chain. This is straight out of the box with alpha patches. Could it be tweaked, could it take some light EQ etc…? Of course. But the point here was to highlight what just two patches per instrument (plus a couple of fleeting trills for violins and violas) can do played straight out of the box. I think it also shows off how lovely this room sounds.
> 
> Finally, Jasper tells me that the marcatos were almost an afterthought in this library and that there “isn't much going on” as far as technology/performance with these. He plans more advanced development of this type of articulation in the future and feels they will yield much more convincing results. Here’s a direct quote: "there's a lot of room for growth in terms of musical sloppiness, repetitions, releases, and possibly marc-specific interval-esque sampling, and integration with legatos but in a way where its built together from the ground up rather than ‘just slapped together.’
> 
> So that has me excited, because the marcatos in Pacific are already excellent and versatile, as I’ve attempted to show here.
> 
> 
> P.S. This is strings only. Perhaps I’ll fill out the rest of the orchestra when the the other sections of Pacific are complete, just so everyone can get a sense of how it all blends together.


Wow, that is impressive!


----------



## Fry777

Mike T said:


> The dynamics are well above "industry standard" numbers.
> 
> The feeling of expressiveness on a modwheel/breath controller with these is something that you are quickly spoiled by.



That sounds promising
Could you tell us more about the amount of vibrato in the lowest dynamic layer sustains? Are they non-vib or close to that? Or is there a noticeable amount of vibrato still present?


----------



## Sovereign

Fry777 said:


> That sounds promising
> Could you tell us more about the amount of vibrato in the lowest dynamic layer sustains? Are they non-vib or close to that? Or is there a noticeable amount of vibrato still present?


Perhaps someone could post an example of the legatos playing these softest layers? I'd like to hear too how quiet it can get.


----------



## Sovereign

Mike T said:


> It varies a bit between sections, up and down (at these numbers a little negative variance still results in_ a lot)_ but, just from the violins: the marcatos (and legatos I believe) both have 5, the con sordino longs have 9, tremolos have 8, trills have 6, spiccatos look to be 8 as well, pizzicatos 9, as well as a harmonics patch with 6 layers, which seems to also include very soft (sul tasto/flautando territory) sustains in the lower range. RRs hover around 7-9.


Those number of RRs, I assume for pizzicatos and marcatos too? That's nice.


----------



## Fry777

Sovereign said:


> Perhaps someone could post an example of the legatos playing these softest layers? I'd like to hear too how quiet it can get.


That would be even better


----------



## Snarf

artinro said:


> Allow me to give a short demonstration. Here is an excerpt from the 5th movement of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique.


Sounds great, thanks for doing this!



artinro said:


> The following example uses two patches per instrument: Spiccato and Marcato (with Trills for the few moments those are required in the violins and violas). That’s it. No legatos, no sustains, nothing else.


Could you say a bit more about this? Did you layer the spicc and marc or alternate between them depending on the passage? Also, how did you do the runs? Layered with trills?

Thanks again for the example


----------



## CT

Sovereign said:


> Those number of RRs, I assume for pizzicatos and marcatos too? That's nice.


Again, it varies across the whole library; like the site says the dynamics are up to 14 in some cases so what I posted is just a ballpark after a quick look through some stuff, but it's all _very_ detailed.


----------



## CT

Fry777 said:


> That sounds promising
> Could you tell us more about the amount of vibrato in the lowest dynamic layer sustains? Are they non-vib or close to that? Or is there a noticeable amount of vibrato still present?


I'd say that, with the sordinos for example, the vibrato decreases from high dynamics down in a manner which is sensible and musical. The bottom is not a totally still, non-vib sound, but it is also not the sort of quiet-but-intense heavy vibrato that some string libraries have all the way down in those hushed dynamics.

It's something that Jasper is aware of and he's as concerned about getting it right as any of us are. Pacific has a more reserved vibrato approach to it overall than, say, the very romantic and lyrical sound of Vista.


----------



## artinro

Snarf said:


> Could you say a bit more about this? Did you layer the spicc and marc or alternate between them depending on the passage?


No layering, just alternating whenever appropriate.


Snarf said:


> Also, how did you do the runs? Layered with trills?


Either trills, or (in a few cases) just the marcato patch itself. The library isn't designed with runs in mind, but it can handle them in a pinch.


----------



## Fry777

Mike T said:


> I'd say that, with the sordinos for example, the vibrato decreases from high dynamics down in a manner which is sensible and musical. The bottom is not a totally still, non-vib sound, but it is also not the sort of quiet-but-intense heavy vibrato that some string libraries have all the way down in those hushed dynamics.


Thank you for your insight.
Would you be able to post a very short example of these lowest layers ? Just a couple of sustained notes would do...


----------



## Toecutter

Sovereign said:


> Owning a couple of Sonokinetic's multisampled libraries I have to be honest, am not expecting some sort of great miracle there if it's anything like their woodwinds ensemble.


I remember Sonokinetic saying something about a new engine, found this post https://vi-control.net/community/th...rchestral-strings.105121/page-17#post-4833258

"Surprisingly little of the Woodwinds script made it into the new Orchestral Strings engine, it has been mostly engineered from the ground up, taking the best bits and pieces from things we did before.

The new engine is modular, and the Woodwinds will see a (free) future update to benefit from all the new stuff we've learned doing this and the new functionality added."

Nothing like their woodwind ensemble


----------



## Sovereign

Toecutter said:


> I remember Sonokinetic saying something about a new engine, found this post https://vi-control.net/community/th...rchestral-strings.105121/page-17#post-4833258
> 
> "Surprisingly little of the Woodwinds script made it into the new Orchestral Strings engine, it has been mostly engineered from the ground up, taking the best bits and pieces from things we did before.
> 
> The new engine is modular, and the Woodwinds will see a (free) future update to benefit from all the new stuff we've learned doing this and the new functionality added."
> 
> Nothing like their woodwind ensemble


Perhaps, but my statement was not so much based on the scripting as it was on the sound of the ensembles itself. I'll be surprised if the legatos turn out to be really good. We'll see.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> I'll be surprised if the legatos turn out to be really good. We'll see.


Maybe that's the main reason they are not releasing the library


----------



## Jish

While I have liked parts of what I have heard in the past with regards to Jasper's string libraries, I never pulled the trigger on them (Con Moto, wake up) and frankly never understood the near-adjulated levels of enthusiasm others associated with Vista/Con Moto.

However, with just the few examples posted more recently in this thread, It appears that Pacific is well on track to set a level of realism/quality that we just haven't had for some time in this community. Price aside, if all goes as well as one can hope than the future atleast for string libs may focus more emphasis on respective dynamic layers and their transitions (a kind of vindication) rather than a small army of mic positions (far less interesting, though much easier to achieve).



muziksculp said:


> Maybe that's the main reason they are not releasing the library


It's really difficult to say as we still have so little to work on with regards to any examples whatsoever, or audio demos. The optimist in me wants to think they are being honest with reasons given for the continuing delay, as well as the overall stated quality of the library; the more cynical side is anticipating a sort of MSS-type repeat, where it's really just filling out different part's of their other libraries, without being particularly stellar as a foundational 'workhorse' string library. Something about the, 'can't see it not being May' release comment has curbed my enthusiasm since a touch


----------



## CT

Fry777 said:


> Thank you for your insight.
> Would you be able to post a very short example of these lowest layers ? Just a couple of sustained notes would do...


Here is a little swell through the lowest third or so of the muted strings' dynamics, which maybe clarifies what you're wondering about? 

View attachment sord.mp3


----------



## Sovereign

On the product page it also says "soft sustains" next to the harmonics. What are these? An actual separate patch? Flautando?


----------



## Fry777

Mike T said:


> Here is a little swell through the lowest third or so of the muted strings' dynamics, which maybe clarifies what you're wondering about?
> 
> View attachment sord.mp3


That was exactly what I wanted to hear, thank you. And also, damn you, because I'm even more interested now.


----------



## gst98

Sovereign said:


> On the product page it also says "soft sustains" next to the harmonics. What are these? An actual separate patch? Flautando?


There is a demo somewhere on soundcloud. I think he just means the harmonic patches that can be played as a soft sustain. It did sound reminiscent of a flautando patch


----------



## Sovereign

Mike T said:


> Here is a little swell through the lowest third or so of the muted strings' dynamics, which maybe clarifies what you're wondering about?
> 
> View attachment sord.mp3


That's a rather fast attack at the beginning, is there a slower one?


----------



## CT

Sovereign said:


> That's a rather fast attack at the beginning, is there a slower one?


Keep in mind that this is an isolated and slightly gain-boosted (for listening convenience) example of the quietest layers, so inevitably the note attacks will seem more noticeable (especially with multiple notes all sounding in tight coordination, as in this example) than they ever actually would in context, with these very delicate sounds heard at natural levels relative to everything else. Turn up the gain on _any _note played by strings, and you will hear some kind of "attack," the beginning of bow motion, no matter how _dal_ _niente_ the note might be marked in the score.

So, in use with sensitive dynamic movement, I don't think there's much of a need for any slower attack than what is heard here. If a more "sampley" slow envelope is desired, it's a pretty simple matter to adjust some things under the hood.


----------



## Jett Hitt

I got to thinking about the current NI sale and considering whether to upgrade to Kontakt 6. It occurred to me that Pacific might require Kontakt 6, so I asked Jasper. This was his reply:

_I'm not sure yet but there is a good chance I will release in Kontakt 6 format. _

It could be that he still decides to release for Kontakt 5, but it would be a bummer to have to upgrade Kontakt at full price.


----------



## Sovereign

Mike T said:


> Keep in mind that this is an isolated and slightly gain-boosted (for listening convenience) example of the quietest layers, so inevitably the note attacks will seem more noticeable (especially with multiple notes all sounding in tight coordination, as in this example) than they ever actually would in context, with these very delicate sounds heard at natural levels relative to everything else. Turn up the gain on _any _note played by strings, and you will hear some kind of "attack," the beginning of bow motion, no matter how _dal_ _niente_ the note might be marked in the score.
> 
> So, in use with sensitive dynamic movement, I don't think there's much of a need for any slower attack than what is heard here. If a more "sampley" slow envelope is desired, it's a pretty simple matter to adjust some things under the hood.


Reason I ask is because I found the 'slow' attacks in Vista rather immediate, compared to for example CSS which has a very nice slow bow attack for the softer dynamics. I'd rather not opt for faking a slower attack.


----------



## axb312

@Mike T and @artinro Would be great if you could collaborate with Jasper and do a walkthrough video. Given the price, would be helpful.

Also, like I mentioned earlier, was there any sort of discussion with Jasper thank buyers won't get burnt with similar products (improved versions) released in a year or so at a similarly hefty price tag?


----------



## artinro

axb312 said:


> Also, like I mentioned earlier, was there any sort of discussion with Jasper thank buyers won't get burnt with similar products (improved versions) released in a year or so at a similarly hefty price tag?


Hi axb. I spoke to Jasper and ran your question by him. I'll post what he said, and then contribute my 2 cents.

*"There will 1000% be similar products and improved orchestral library releases in the next year if all goes well. Each project is a masterclass for me and very educational on what to improve on (and for me, there are mountains of things to improve on). Constant iteration & forward growth is and will always be the aim and motivation for me. *

_*Pacific and Voyage are similar in some ways, and I wrote up some new FAQs and info on this page for anyone who may be curious about the differences. https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific/"*_

Now, from my perspective, as a fan of his work I'm pleased Jasper plans to record many more libraries (including more strings) in this hall and others. While there will, of course, be overlap (after all, there are only so many instrument groups) they aren't meant as replacements per se, just additional options with new/additional focuses, different section sizes, players, techniques etc... For example, I still use Con Moto a lot, even though Jasper has done more strings (Vista and now Pacific) since then. Pacific was recorded in the same room as Con Moto, and I still plan to continue using Con Moto. Same with the Oceanias and the Fluid Shorts series. This isn't like Apple releasing a new and objectively better phone each year where suddenly last year's model is out of date. The libraries all work well together, complement one another, and give me more options.


----------



## Toecutter

artinro said:


> Pacific was recorded in the same room as Con Moto


That's interesting, I didn't know Pacific was recorded in the same room as CM, also used for Caspian and FS1. Is this why they were discontinued? I only got the confirmation that Vista wasn't going to be discontinued. 

Do you know (or can compare) if Pacific is *all new *recordings or there are samples recycled from previous libraries? I'd like to confirm how much of the content overlap because I already own some of those libraries


----------



## artinro

Toecutter said:


> Do you know (or can compare) if Pacific is *all new *recordings or there are samples recycled from previous libraries? I'd like to confirm how much of the content overlap because I already own some of those libraries


Completely new recordings @Toecutter. No overlap whatsoever.

And, as far as I know, Jasper isn't a fan of recycling older libraries into new ones.


----------



## Toecutter

artinro said:


> Completely new recordings @Toecutter. No overlap whatsoever.
> 
> And, as far as I know, Jasper doesn’t recycle older libraries into new ones ever.


Thank you sir!


----------



## artinro

Toecutter said:


> Thank you sir!


My pleasure!


----------



## JF

artinro said:


> Hi axb. I spoke to Jasper and ran your question by him. I'll post what he said, and then contribute my 2 cents.
> 
> *"There will 1000% be similar products and improved orchestral library releases in the next year if all goes well. Each project is a masterclass for me and very educational on what to improve on (and for me, there are mountains of things to improve on). Constant iteration & forward growth is and will always be the aim and motivation for me. *
> 
> _*Pacific and Voyage are similar in some ways, and I wrote up some new FAQs and info on this page for anyone who may be curious about the differences. https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific/"*_
> 
> Now, from my perspective, as a fan of his work I'm pleased Jasper plans to record many more libraries (including more strings) in this hall and others. While there will, of course, be overlap (after all, there are only so many instrument groups) they aren't meant as replacements per se, just additional options with new/additional focuses, different section sizes, players, techniques etc... For example, I still use Con Moto a lot, even though Jasper has done more strings (Vista and now Pacific) since then. Pacific was recorded in the same room as Con Moto, and I still plan to continue using Con Moto. Same with the Oceanias and the Fluid Shorts series. This isn't like Apple releasing a new and objectively better phone each year where suddenly last year's model is out of date. The libraries all work well together, complement one another, and give me more options.


Do you know if Jasper will include a noise floor from the recordings to help glue a performance together? Thanks!


----------



## X-Bassist

Jett Hitt said:


> I got to thinking about the current NI sale and considering whether to upgrade to Kontakt 6. It occurred to me that Pacific might require Kontakt 6, so I asked Jasper. This was his reply:
> 
> _I'm not sure yet but there is a good chance I will release in Kontakt 6 format. _
> 
> It could be that he still decides to release for Kontakt 5, but it would be a bummer to have to upgrade Kontakt at full price.


I would upgrade, moreso because most newer non-player libraries will require it. Those that are releasing Kontakt 5 compatable libraries are dwindling.


----------



## Jett Hitt

X-Bassist said:


> I would upgrade, moreso because most newer non-player libraries will require it. Those that are releasing Kontakt 5 compatable libraries are dwindling. But usually in January they have a half price upgrade sale where Kontakt alone can be upgraded for $99 alone if you don’t want to upgrade all of Komplete. But that is a wait...


There is a half price upgrade sale right now. I owned Kontakt 5 Full and was able to go to Kontakt 6 Full for $49.50. If you own any previous version of Full, you can upgrade it right now. I missed this sale last year, and that's what prompted me to ask Jasper about it.


----------



## Casiquire

axb312 said:


> @Mike T and @artinro Would be great if you could collaborate with Jasper and do a walkthrough video. Given the price, would be helpful.
> 
> Also, like I mentioned earlier, was there any sort of discussion with Jasper thank buyers won't get burnt with similar products (improved versions) released in a year or so at a similarly hefty price tag?


I really don't follow this criticism. It's one of several types of complaints I've seen here and thought "well that doesn't seem totally fair". If you feel a product is worth what you pay for what you get, another product shouldn't change that. You're not getting burned if a better library comes out later because A, a "better" library is ALWAYS coming out later, and B, you can still keep the one you bought and you've been using it for a year already.

I can't see how anybody with a mindset like that hasn't totally lost their marbles in this industry because it's such a normal, regular, and GOOD thing. We want libraries to outpace each other all the time, even from the same devs, so long as it's actual improvement and not just a new coat of paint.


----------



## axb312

Casiquire said:


> I really don't follow this criticism. It's one of several types of complaints I've seen here and thought "well that doesn't seem totally fair". If you feel a product is worth what you pay for what you get, another product shouldn't change that. You're not getting burned if a better library comes out later because A, a "better" library is ALWAYS coming out later, and B, you can still keep the one you bought and you've been using it for a year already.
> 
> I can't see how anybody with a mindset like that hasn't totally lost their marbles in this industry because it's such a normal, regular, and GOOD thing. We want libraries to outpace each other all the time, even from the same devs, so long as it's actual improvement and not just a new coat of paint.


Not really in the industry. Do this for a hobby. Expect libs to last two years at least.

What irks me about Jasper though is he makes (seemingly) incremental changes and releases the results as a new library.

Anyhow, consider me well and thoroughly chastised.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

I mean, they're all new recordings. Recording stuff costs a lot of money.


----------



## Evans

axb312 said:


> Expect libs to last two years at least


A new library does not change the usability of something you have already acquired.


----------



## gst98

axb312 said:


> Not really in the industry. Do this for a hobby. Expect libs to last two years at least.
> 
> What irks me about Jasper though is he makes (seemingly) incremental changes and releases the results as a new library.
> 
> Anyhow, consider me well and thoroughly chastised.


Incremental? these are going to the first PS full orchestral libraries. Oceania is the only example of this I can think of, where the main aim was to add syllables and double the choir size. Fluid shorts 1/2 are very different approaches.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

axb312 said:


> Not really in the industry. Do this for a hobby. Expect libs to last two years at least.
> 
> What irks me about Jasper though is he makes (seemingly) incremental changes and releases the results as a new library.
> 
> Anyhow, consider me well and thoroughly chastised.


He releases them as new library because.... THEY ARE NEW LIBRARIES. 

All new recordings (expensive) and sampler patches with improved techniques. Even different rooms and players depending on the library. 

And if you perceive the changes as incremental then you should be highly comfortable buying the latest and greatest and ignore the sinister incremental follow ups till something comes that seems new and different enough.


----------



## Casiquire

axb312 said:


> Not really in the industry. Do this for a hobby. Expect libs to last two years at least.
> 
> What irks me about Jasper though is he makes (seemingly) incremental changes and releases the results as a new library.
> 
> Anyhow, consider me well and thoroughly chastised.


Apologies if it came off as chastising because that wasn't my intention. Just maybe offering perspective. New libraries outpacing what seemed like brand new libraries just a few weeks ago, and new expensive libraries quickly falling in price right after you buy them, are just part of the deal and aren't necessarily a bad thing.


----------



## artinro

axb312 said:


> Not really in the industry. Do this for a hobby. Expect libs to last two years at least.
> 
> What irks me about Jasper though is he makes (seemingly) incremental changes and releases the results as a new library.
> 
> Anyhow, consider me well and thoroughly chastised.


Axb, I agree with you that I expect libraries to last a good long time too and when I invest in one, they almost always do. I’m still using patches from libraries that I got years and years ago. In fact, one of my favorite patches of all time is over 10 years old at this point 😳 

I firmly believe PS libraries will stand the test of time because of the tone, the unique and lively performances Jasper demands from his players, and the depth of the sampling. With Performance Samples specifically, I still use Con Moto (which is several years old) in nearly every project and I don’t expect that to change even when Pacific is released. I’ll just gladly add Pacific to my template. 

Remember, also, that even though Pacific and Con Moto were recorded in the same room, Pacific is different players, different section sizes, a different legato technique, and also many more articulations. I don’t consider any of those to be incremental changes whatsoever.


----------



## Getsumen

I sorta get where they're coming from. PS releases string libraries a lot more often than other devs (who instead will do more niche things in between their major libs.)

Doesn't make the library obsolete or anything, but I can see how some may get buyers regret after seeing something new and shiny.

Doesn't make the lib useless or bad anything. At least for me even if I could afford Pacific I would probably hold off because no doubt in a few years there will be something that probably suits me a little better (Just me though)


----------



## Pianolando

axb312 said:


> Not really in the industry. Do this for a hobby. Expect libs to last two years at least.



Berlin Strings have served me extremely well since 2014 or whenever it was released. Still nothing on the market has surpassed it (for my needs and ideals). Things don’t improve that fast in this industry, but new libraries that are different, with different esthetic ideals and new features will always be released. If this new library looks to be better than what you have, you think that it will work for you and looks like it’s worth it economically, then buy it but don’t sweat what might come out next year. Just make awesome music with sounds that inspire you, and if they inspire you now, they surely will for years.


----------



## muziksculp

Pianolando said:


> Berlin Strings have served me extremely well since 2014 or whenever it was released. Still nothing on the market has surpassed it (for my needs and ideals). Things don’t improve that fast in this industry, but new libraries that are different, with different esthetic ideals and new features will always be released. If this new library looks to be better than what you have, you think that it will work for you and looks like it’s worth it economically, then buy it but don’t sweat what might come out next year. Just make awesome music with sounds that inspire you, and if they inspire you now, they surely will for years.


So true.

And let's not forget : _You can't have enough String Libraries. They all complement each other, and non of them is perfect._


----------



## Getsumen




----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Is end of June still a possibility for the release of Pacific Strings ? 

Or are we more likely to see it released during July, mid-July ? 

Meanwhile, some more demos while we wait would be super cool  

Thanks.


----------



## NickDorito

It's never coming out


----------



## VSriHarsha

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I mean, they're all new recordings. Recording stuff costs a lot of money.


I agree with that but then it depends on certain specific things & you can get it done for a little economical price.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is end of June still a possibility for the release of Pacific Strings ?
> 
> Or are we more likely to see it released during July, mid-July ?
> 
> Meanwhile, some more demos while we wait would be super cool
> 
> Thanks.


Jasper is working on all 4 sections of Pacific at once (Strings, Brass, Winds, Perc). Strings are first, and close.


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> Jasper is working on all 4 sections of Pacific at once (Strings, Brass, Winds, Perc). Strings are first, and close.


He is working on all 4 section of Pacific Orchestra at once, that just made me go  

Looking forward to see Pacific Strings (soon).


----------



## Sovereign

Just release the damned thing, my patience is gone.


----------



## CT




----------



## gst98

Can anyone comment on how many mic positions Pacific will have? Would be nice to have the extra control that Con Moto has rather than Vista.


----------



## axb312

5000


----------



## Instrugramm

Very excited for this one, big fan of Vista.


----------



## CT

gst98 said:


> Can anyone comment on how many mic positions Pacific will have? Would be nice to have the extra control that Con Moto has rather than Vista.


It is a Close/AB setup. Some of you may know I geek out about this stuff and love having dozens of mic options to play armchair engineer with, but I've found Pacific to be extremely flexible even with just two. Careful balancing and panning of the close mics will get you anything from a widescreen cinematic sound to a more blended classical/live sound. The latter is especially effective with an AB pair as the main signal; I love this very live sonic character which is not often represented by orchestral libraries. My experiments with Pacific so far have a feeling of excitement and presence which I now find conspicuously absent in many other libraries, and the method of recording surely plays a role in this (as does Jasper's commitment to getting the musicians to give everything they have).

By the way, another little geek-out detail... the trumpets in Pacific brass are rotary valve instruments, going by session photos. A really beautiful variant of typical piston trumpets which are very rarely sampled as far as I know.


----------



## gst98

Mike T said:


> It is a Close/AB setup. Some of you may know I geek out about this stuff and love having dozens of mic options to play armchair engineer with, but I've found Pacific to be extremely flexible even with just two. Careful balancing and panning of the close mics will get you anything from a widescreen cinematic sound to a more blended classical/live sound. The latter is especially effective with an AB pair as the main signal; I love this very live sonic character which is not often represented by orchestral libraries. My experiments with Pacific so far have a feeling of excitement and presence which I now find conspicuously absent in many other libraries, and the method of recording surely plays a role in this (as does Jasper's commitment to getting the musicians to give everything they have).
> 
> By the way, another little geek-out detail... the trumpets in Pacific brass are rotary valve instruments, going by session photos. A really beautiful variant of typical piston trumpets which are very rarely sampled as far as I know.


Thanks for the info. In JXL I tend to gravitate to the AB mics - something really smooth and pleasant about them so that's not a worry to me. And his Close mics tend to be much more useful than most (almost like they are a mid mic with a bit of distance), AR seems to have that in common.

But when people likened the room sound to Air, it made me think that you would at least want some wide mics to have a bit more flexibility. With the SSO/Mural extra mics, I found I didn't have a desire for them until I had heard them and what a change they can make. I just thought I was a shame because JB used to offer more mics, and seeing as this was going to be the most expensive library so far I assumed it would have 3 or 4. 

Idk maybe it's not such a big deal and I'm overthinking. It's becoming more common to give more mics recently (even though I think some SF libs overdo it), I have to admit AR's mic selection is incredible and very useful.


----------



## CT

The Abbey Road close mics are definitely particularly nice, agreed. Simon R knows what he's doing!

Again, I do understand completely the desire for lots of mixing flexibility, but I've been pleasantly surprised by how much can be done with just two signals in the case of Pacific. A wider and more stereo-defined sound is possible via how you use the close mics, but it also really excels in its described remit of "classical symphonic strings," which I've been wanting from samples for a while. It's a more blended but very live and present sound, exciting in a different way than larger than life cinematic strings. Plus, I think because the basses are somewhat more centered than usual and thus the ensemble width isn't as large as it might otherwise be, there's less practical need for outrigger extensions to pick up any detail lost by the center mics. 

Anyway, I'm sure as the library gets closer to release there will be more opportunities to demonstrate different possible sounds instead of me just blathering on about it.


----------



## Toecutter

It's a bit disappointing to hear about the microphones, at this price range and considering the room size, I would appreciate more options. Not even talking about the competition, Con Moto is *great *in that regard, the "close 1st chair" and "close section" microphones are sooo useful to dial in the right amount of focus. Same with the "wide" mike capturing the room. Lots of sound shaping that won't be possible with Pacific out of the box. But it is what it is, guess we'll have to wait and see... or hear XD

btw anyone knows how the loyalty thing works? Do I need all the CM modules to get the discount? We are halfway past June, would be nice to get a price and release date already.


----------



## muziksculp

So Pacific Strings has two Mic Options, Close, and A/B .

Any info. if the Close is a Ribbon Mic ? 

I guess it also depends how much of the Hall's acoustics the A/B is capturing for each the sections.

I'm not a big fan of having too many mic options, but having a few options is always a good thing to offer sonic flexibility, so it can be easily tweaked to taste. 

I'm getting more excited about this library as we near the end of June, and would love to hear more demos of it at this stage of its development.


----------



## CT

Hey, remember how much Adagio was when it first came around? That also had two mic positions in a fairly large church (larger than this hall) but was still pretty flexible, and I feel like Jasper's gotten better results than 8dio did with that recording approach. To say nothing of how much more detailed this library is in dynamics etc.

Close mics are not ribbons in this case, no. Mics used look to be very pristine classical choices (DPA etc.)


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> I feel like Jasper's gotten better results than 8dio did with that recording approach.


I'm sure the tools we have now are also much better than what 8dio had to work with when they were developing Adagio (Something like 10 years ago, or more now ?)


----------



## artinro

I think you folks will be quite pleased with the amount of sculpting you can do with “just” two mics. This room has kind of a superpower ability to be both enveloping and detailed at the same time. For those who own CM, they can be layered for even more detail if you wish, as they were also recorded in the same space. And, as Mike says above, the library is so very dynamic. Lots of layers. For me, personally, if it’s more dynamics or more mics….I always favor the former (as long as the provided mics are solid, and they are).


----------



## rottoy

I vastly prefer having two, maybe three very different mic colours, rather than a gallery of mics with indiscernible differences eating up my hard drive.


----------



## CT

artinro said:


> (as long as the provided mics are solid, and they are).


I think this, and what you say about the room, are key here. Many mics in a great room = awesome. A few well-chosen mics in a great room = awesome. Any number of mics in not a great room = meh.


----------



## FireGS

I really had no interest in this library due to player count, but I'm slowly turning. Loyalty/intro price will be a huge factor, but I'm super pumped.


----------



## Toecutter

artinro said:


> I think you folks will be quite pleased with the amount of sculpting you can do with “just” two mics. This room has kind of a superpower ability to be both enveloping and detailed at the same time. For those who own CM, they can be layered for even more detail if you wish, as they were also recorded in the same space. And, as Mike says above, the library is so very dynamic. Lots of layers. For me, personally, if it’s more dynamics or more mics….I always favor the former (as long as the provided mics are solid, and they are).


Yea I heard some impressive examples of Vista and what's possible with two microphones so no reason to panic. I think it's easier to make chamber strings sound big and detailed (V can sound huge from what I could tell) but not the other way around. Hopefully in Pacific the close microphone was placed close enough to the first chair because such detail in a symphonic group is only possible to get by having a microphone physically placed in front of the first chair. I love Con Moto's "1C" mic because of that, would have been awesome to have the same four microphones... but yea, it is what it is. Dynamics > microphones all day! I need to keep reminding myself that Pacific is pppppppppppppppp-ffffffffffffffff  This is amazing! And true sordino!

Do you know if PS is still shooting for a June release?


----------



## CT

Curious, what's your objection to the player count? Just prefer smaller ensembles?


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> I really had no interest in this library due to player count, but I'm slowly turning. Loyalty/intro price will be a huge factor, but I'm super pumped.


Performance Samples Voyage is a smaller orchestral setup. PS Pacific is a Symphonic Orchestra. 

So, you will have both options once they are released. 

I'm hoping that PS Pacific will have a very attractive intro price.


----------



## Casiquire

FireGS said:


> I really had no interest in this library due to player count, but I'm slowly turning. Loyalty/intro price will be a huge factor, but I'm super pumped.


Due to player count?


----------



## FireGS

Casiquire said:


> Due to player count?





Mike T said:


> Curious, what's your objection to the player count? Just prefer smaller ensembles?


Yep, I'm really into smaller ensembles. More definition in the sound, generally. 

Then again, I did just buy HZS, so...



muziksculp said:


> Performance Samples Voyage is a smaller orchestral setup.


Yep. And that was actually my main focus, but if it's 6-12 months away yet, I'm entertaining both Voyage and Pacific.


----------



## soulofsound

Is Voyage 6-12 months away now? I haven't followed this thread lately, but last i read its release was planned in June?


----------



## FireGS

soulofsound said:


> Is Voyage 6-12 months away now? I haven't followed this thread lately, but last i read its release was planned in June?


Voyage was supposed to be next, but Pacific kind of came in front. Then they added winds, brass, and perc - so I'm only assuming that Voyage has been pushed back by a lot. Totally my own estimates.


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> Yep. And that was actually my main focus, but if it's 6-12 months away yet, I'm entertaining both Voyage and Pacific.


I think it depends what's next on their release schedule after Pacific Strings is released, if it is Voyage Strings, you won't have to wait 6-12 months, but if they decide to release Pacific's other sections first, before moving into Voyage, then Yes, it might take 6-12 months to see Voyage Strings materialize.


----------



## zolhof

The plan is to release all Pacific modules before Voyage. The last I heard from Jasper, he was hoping for a late June release: "could certainly release it earlier but I'm juggling a lot of various things/projects at the moment - I'm slammed 24/7."


----------



## holywilly

Performance Samples – Not for purists







www.performancesamples.com




Pacific strings is coming in July and it offers loyalty discount, woohoo!


----------



## Sovereign

July now? Nooo...


----------



## Snarf

From the website:

LOYALTY
PACIFIC will be released in four modules: strings, brass, woodwinds, and percussion. For each product, there will be an intro price period and, similar to some past releases, a loyalty intro price during (but not beyond) this intro period. Intro and loyalty intro prices will be announced around the time of each release.

The first release will be Pacific – Strings, which at this point is estimated for release in July.

Pacific – Strings: in order to qualify for the loyalty intro price for this product, you will need to own at least one of the following: 1. Vista, 2. Con Moto – Cellos, 3. Con Moto – Violins A, or 4. Con Moto – Violins B.

Pacific – Brass: in order to qualify for the loyalty intro price for this product, you will need to own at least one of the following: 1. another section of Pacific, 2. Caspian, 3. Angry Brass Pro – Soloists, or 4. Angry Brass Pro – Ensembles.

Pacific – Woodwinds: in order to qualify for the loyalty intro price for this product, you will need to own at least one of the following: 1. another section of Pacific, or 2. Angry Woodwinds Pro.

Pacific – Percussion: in order to qualify for the loyalty intro price for this product, you will need to own at least one of the following: 1. another section of Pacific, 2. Perfperc – Volume I, 3. Perfperc – Volume II, or 4. Perfperc – Volume III.

NFRs don’t count. All subject to change at Performance Samples’ discretion.


----------



## JF

Will the other pacfic modules have as many articulations as the strings? Has there been any information released regarding these other modules?


----------



## mikeh-375

Toecutter said:


> I need to keep reminding myself that Pacific is pppppppppppppppp-ffffffffffffffff  This is amazing! And true sordino!


...except for musicians, those dynamics do not exist......not a selling point at all really.


----------



## CT

mikeh-375 said:


> ...except for musicians, those dynamics do not exist......not a selling point at all really.


You're thinking too literally about this. Are there really only eight points of dynamic/timbral variation that players can achieve?


----------



## holywilly

Anyone has Perfperc (all volume)? I’m eyeing on this one and to cross grade to Pacific percussions.


----------



## mikeh-375

Mike T said:


> You're thinking too literally about this. Are there really only eight points of dynamic/timbral variation that players can achieve?


I'm thinking practically Mike. Of course dynamics have more resolution than the usual is -issimos but at a point beyond maybe say 4 p's and f's, adding more is pointless so far as performance in real life is concerned. I grant that some scores will show more p's and f's but that is conceptual marking. No string player can literally start from pppppppp


----------



## CT

This isn't performance in real life though, it's capturing more isolated material that then has to be stitched back together into a flexible and playable facsimile with hopefully some of the nuance of the real thing. To get those finer gradations that happen naturally in context out of a sampling session, I would imagine it helps to push the players in certain directions via "impractical" notation.


----------



## mikeh-375

^^fair point, but even if so, show me a player, let alone a section, who can distinguish between pppppp and ppppppp and pppppppp - it's just not possible, it's stupid.


----------



## X-Bassist

holywilly said:


> Anyone has Perfperc (all volume)? I’m eyeing on this one and to cross grade to Pacific percussions.


Keep in mind if you buy any of the other sections of Pacific, you also get the discount.

My concern is at 1K for just the strings, the discount could still make it $700 or more. A little too rich for a library that claims on it’s product page:

“there’s generally nothing innovative or groundbreaking going on. It’s just a group of concentrated musicians in a very ambient space with a truckload of session time and some fundamentals that worked in the past. The library generally leans away from super quirky or experimental in terms of approach (there will be other releases geared a bit more towards that).”

Also keep in mind this library is in the same hall as Con Moto and Caspian, and Voyage, the other library, is in a completely different hall. So there may be no discounts for that library when it comes.

And only spic for shorts? I’m surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Pretty big deal on most other libraries that get released.

From the FAQ page:
“The strings are rather homogenous sounding, and don’t have a lot of detail to them. I would say that this hall is bigger than the Voyage room, and it has very high ceilings.”

It’s like he’s warning you NOT to buy them. 😄 Obviously Pacific is less experimental, but more mics and short articulations would have been nice for a library of this price. The website reads like he’s emphasizing there is nothing special about this library. Perhaps he should have lunch with the promotional teams from 8Dio and Spitfire. 😄

There’s also no mention of keyswitching patches. I was hoping he’d come up with something better than keyswitches, but many companies are reverting to “one articulation per patch” which saddens me to no end. I realize balancing all the patches into one nki might be a pain (and with a lot of dynamic layers it may be huge), but having more tracks for just one instrument is a terrible way to work (IMHO).

Jasper started with the “one patch for longs and shorts” approach, that’s what I was hoping he’d keep building on (some sort of intelligent auto switching). More dynamic layers doesn’t help if it’s more work to use.


----------



## ansthenia

I hope the loyalty discount is 95% off


----------



## CT

mikeh-375 said:


> ^^fair point, but even if so, show me a player, let alone a section, who can distinguish between pppppp and ppppppp and pppppppp - it's just not possible, it's stupid.


----------



## CT

X-Bassist said:


> And only spic for shorts? I’m surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Pretty big deal on most other libraries that get released.


It has been mentioned and discussed!


----------



## Toecutter

mikeh-375 said:


> ...except for musicians, those dynamics do not exist......not a selling point at all really.


I was joking of course but it *IS *pppppp-fff? Website says up to 14 dynamics... compared to other libraries that offer a few layers (3 or 4 tops) and you can clearly notice the dyn transitions, the more the better. This is as smooth as it gets with samples


----------



## axb312

I think the Vibrato in Vista is a bit OTT. Does anyone think the loyalty discount on Pacific will be greater than or equal to 249 USD (over the expected intro price....) ?


----------



## muziksculp

More demos of Pacific Strings would be great while we wait for the release in July, (hopefully the first half of July).


----------



## Toecutter

mikeh-375 said:


> ^^fair point, but even if so, show me a player, let alone a section, who can distinguish between pppppp and ppppppp and pppppppp - it's just not possible, it's stupid.


It's not stupid. Dynamic markings are not just about volume, it's more like an instruction of the overall interpretation rather than a practical guide to volume. Tchaikovsky 6 has pppppp followed by fff straight after (like Pacific). Verdi wrote those extreme dyn all the time... Andrew Porter (opera director, wrote a book on Verdi) said dyn markings were exaggerated so as to force the generally inattentive orchestra players of the day to approximate Verdi's dyn intentions. If Verdi wanted a quiet piano sound, he would write two or three ps (pianissimo or quieter). It's really more of a perception thing than actual decibels. For samples, having a ton of ps and fs is gold, means that a talented programmer like Jasper can create instruments that have no perceivable jumps in dyn layers. I hear the transition gaps all the time in other libraries and it bugs the hell out of me.


----------



## mikeh-375

I believe I mentioned that extreme dynamics are conceptual @Toecutter. Actually distinguishing between 5, 6 and 7 p's is not really practical so the claim for all the dynamic layers will just make some eyes roll. I like Mike's and yours suggestion that detail is the name of the game of course and I understand that - so much so that I'm in from what I've heard so far. I will qualify that by still mentioning however that players cannot really distinguish between 5,6, or 7 p's, it becomes a feel, a state of mind, anything but not the actual sound.
My issue is that I come from the live world and there, soft and softer, softer again, as quiet as possible and then niente does the trick. Anything else is simply redundant apart from the conceptual aspect and well...sorry...stupid, oh ok then how about unnecessary....

(I'm not sure that crescendo you posted starts at 6 p's or pianississississimo (did I miss an 'iss' ?).


----------



## FireGS

mikeh-375 said:


> stupid, oh ok then how about unnecessary....


Superfluous?


----------



## Casiquire

Mike T said:


> You're thinking too literally about this. Are there really only eight points of dynamic/timbral variation that players can achieve?


Practically speaking, kind of. Everything is contextual. I can't see a whole section of string players all being on the same page with an absurdly specific dynamic. I think that's why some people were disappointed by Synchron Strings with its million dynamic layers. Practically speaking i think more than like six yields diminishing returns and is more useful for movement and variety in sound than dynamics


----------



## Toecutter

Casiquire said:


> Practically speaking, kind of. Everything is contextual. I can't see a whole section of string players all being on the same page with an absurdly specific dynamic. I think that's why some people were disappointed by Synchron Strings with its million dynamic layers. Practically speaking i think more than like six yields diminishing returns and is more useful for movement and variety in sound than dynamics


I didn't know that, just checked the website, SS has 8 dyn layers and 10 RRs per layer (80 total per key lol). I only have Elite Strings, up to 4 layers. Why do you say people were disappointed with SS' dynamic layers? I would think that's an awesome thing? Or it's not done right?


----------



## FireGS

Toecutter said:


> SS has 8 dyn layers and 10 RRs per layer (80 total per key lol).


Is this with shorts or sustains? I could look it up, I'm super lazy.


----------



## Saxer

With more recorded dynamic layers you don't have to overlap that much to get smooth transitions when riding the mod wheel. The players don't need to play 7p and 7f. They play maybe pp p mf f ff in multiple performances and later this recordings can be sorted into layers... the quietest of the pp-recordings is layer one, the next louder pp is layer two etc.


----------



## Toecutter

FireGS said:


> Is this with shorts or sustains? I could look it up, I'm super lazy.


It doesn't say  "One major reason for the heightened realism of _Synchron Strings I_ is the unprecedented number of velocity layers and note variations. Most notes are available with 8 dynamic levels and up to 10 variations, from pianissimo to fortissimo and everything in between, that blend smoothly as you crossfade through the layers. All the samples are delivered automatically as you play, and in most cases you don’t even need to think about manual key switching."

compared to Elite Strings:

- *4 dynamic layers *for staccatos and détachés
- 3 dynamic layers for spiccatos
- *4 dynamic layers *for regular and senza vibrato variations for Long Notes, Legatos and Portamentos
- 3 dynamic layers for molto vibrato variations for Long Notes, Legatos and Portamento
- 3 dynamic layers for tremolos and trills
- 2 dynamic layers for measured tremolos
- 3 dynamic layers for regular pizzicato and col legno
- 1 dynamic layer fpr snap pizzicato
- 1 dynamic layer for harmonics

probably shorts and longs too?


----------



## Casiquire

Toecutter said:


> I didn't know that, just checked the website, SS has 8 dyn layers and 10 RRs per layer (80 total per key lol). I only have Elite Strings, up to 4 layers. Why do you say people were disappointed with SS' dynamic layers? I would think that's an awesome thing? Or it's not done right?


I think because they wound up not really sounding like very much was happening between layers. There's no such thing as just a medium volume. That's why there's mp, then mf. There's no just m. So you can push players to go louder and louder but they'll eventually hit a ceiling, and the same for going softer and softer, and then most of the remaining layers are much less extreme and it doesn't even feel like you're using that many layers


----------



## Sovereign

Casiquire said:


> I think because they wound up not really sounding like very much was happening between layers.


This.


----------



## ism

Even for a library with 4 dynamic layers, you can really tell the different between the crossfade and a recorded arc (like you get in OACE, Anthology, Sospiro, Ark2 etc). 

In context, it doesn't always matter that much. And 90% of listeners in isolation are going to be completely 'fooled' by the crossfade. 

But there are times when the emotional quality of a recorded arc really, really matters. And cognitively 'fooling' a listener is completely irrelevant, because that continuous change of timbre can be an absolutely essential source of the emotional experience of listening to strings. An emotional dimension that you'll never get with a piano or a guitar.


So in context, if you're playing something that's, for instance, keyed precisely the sweet spot of CSS, then 14 dynamics layers are probably going to be diminishing returns at most.

But I'm deeply, deeply curious to know if the effect of a 14 dynamic layer cross fade will open up other expressive musicalities ... perhaps like the OACE waves, the Adagio arcs, and the OT swells, or even long portato. 

Because in these expressive spaces, crossfade on 4 dynamics layers is clearly not remotely enough.


----------



## lucor

Jasper has always been _very _conservative and "non-flashy" with all his releases, be it number of microphone positions, articulations etc...
If he thinks that so many dynamic layers are beneficial and worth the extra hassle, then there is no doubt in my mind that they are.


----------



## muziksculp

lucor said:


> Jasper has always been _very _conservative and "non-flashy" with all his releases, be it number of microphone positions, articulations etc...
> If he thinks that so many dynamic layers are beneficial and worth the extra hassle, then there is no doubt in my mind that they are.


I agree. 

i.e. if Jasper thought that three-dynamics were good enough for his taste, he wouldn't have bothered with making eight-dynamics. He surely experimented, and found the optimal dynamic-number that he felt makes a big difference.


----------



## Toecutter

Casiquire said:


> I think because they wound up not really sounding like very much was happening between layers. There's no such thing as just a medium volume. That's why there's mp, then mf. There's no just m. So you can push players to go louder and louder but they'll eventually hit a ceiling, and the same for going softer and softer, and then most of the remaining layers are much less extreme and it doesn't even feel like you're using that many layers


So it becomes more like a "gimmick" than a useful thing for us? That's a good point, the diminished returns one, I think that's what @mikeh-375 was saying?

14 layers may look overkill on paper but sampling technique and programming are so different from dev to dev, I trust Performance Samples is one of the most musical companies and if Jasper found a reason to record up to 14 dynamics, who am I to hold him back? I know what I don't like about other libraries... and the short number of layers is a big one.

If we got something like 10 layers (still a lot of layers) and one extra microphone (first chair!!) and a few more shorts variations, it would feel like a better deal overall.

Until we find out the actual price of the library and loyalty discount, it doesn't even matter. I wasn't expecting Vista to go on sale again so soon but Vista AND Pacific in one go is just too much to go blind like that. The stuff @zolhof sent me made me wish I could listen to the two libs side by side before deciding. I think I need both? The idea of using Vista to add detail to Pacific is very tempting but how much that is going to cost me? To add salt to injury, I almost bought Century Strings (normale and sordino) yesterday for almost the same price as Vista but bailed at the last minute after reading this thread. I'm so screwed


----------



## CT

Saxer said:


> With more recorded dynamic layers you don't have to overlap that much to get smooth transitions when riding the mod wheel. The players don't need to play 7p and 7f. They play maybe pp p mf f ff in multiple performances and later this recordings can be sorted into layers... the quietest of the pp-recordings is layer one, the next louder pp is layer two etc.


Exactly.

Again... this is not the "live world," (I'm from that world too, by the way) it is the sampling world, where smooth movement from one timbre to another has to depend on fine gradations of captured performances, and "absurd" or "impractical" notation is possibly one way to explore coaxing the performers in the direction necessary for this strange requirement. Why are we getting hung up on this, exactly? Is pppppppp just what it's being called by Jasper in concept? Who knows if that's even what was on the players' parts or if it's just where their performances were pushed during sessions? Come on, let's not let this descend into a typical VI-Control black hole of pedantic myopia.

I can't speak for something like Synchron Strings, but my experience thus far is that Jasper isn't a developer who would include something unless it makes a difference. Perhaps the Synchron players were too polite in their performances and not pushed to provide more real variation from the dynamic range they were operating within. Never used that library, I don't know. Pacific on the other hand responds dynamically in the way I would expect, based on the real thing, more than any other sampled strings I've used. Ultimately I don't care how many layers are involved in achieving that, I'm just glad that it's achieved. I question whether it's just a coincidence though that this amount of detail in sampling corresponds to such satisfying results.


----------



## lettucehat

Man, I know all the disclaimers and self-deprecating descriptions probably work against sales, but to see anyone actively wishing the marketing be more like 8dio or Spitfire so they can feel the price is more justified is... something else.

Saying there's nothing technically innovative in the product is probably just factual, but who cares anyway. It's all about sampling technique, the recording, scripting, curation of performances, etc. Vista, Con Moto, CSS... no reinvention of the wheel, just improvements on what came before (considerable IMO).


----------



## artinro

X-Bassist said:


> “there’s generally nothing innovative or groundbreaking going on. It’s just a group of concentrated musicians in a very ambient space with a truckload of session time and some fundamentals that worked in the past. The library generally leans away from super quirky or experimental in terms of approach (there will be other releases geared a bit more towards that).”
> 
> 
> From the FAQ page:
> “The strings are rather homogenous sounding, and don’t have a lot of detail to them. I would say that this hall is bigger than the Voyage room, and it has very high ceilings.”
> 
> It’s like he’s warning you NOT to buy them. 😄


I wouldn't read too much into these statements. Jasper just prefers to not hype his products with the usual hyperbole "greatest library ever" "next gen" "uber-mega deep sampled" language that's thrown about too much, imo. He just gives his overall impressions of the library and lets the demos do the talking.


----------



## Casiquire

lettucehat said:


> Man, I know all the disclaimers and self-deprecating descriptions probably work against sales, but to see anyone actively wishing the marketing be more like 8dio or Spitfire so they can feel the price is more justified is... something else.


Wait who was suggesting that?!


----------



## ism

FireGS said:


> Superfluous?


The new Super-fluous Dynamic Transition (SDT) technology (tm). I'm excited already.


----------



## zolhof

JF said:


> Will the other pacfic modules have as many articulations as the strings? Has there been any information released regarding these other modules?


Here is the answer I received from Jasper when I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago: "The brass/ww/perc are certainly not as complete as the strings. It was mainly a symphonic classical string lib which I wanted to “complete” with other things, rather than approaching the whole project as a comprehensive thing from the get go. The brass is like caspian 2.0 with flutters as well, and a lot more release types and flexibility. The ww has some legatos, trills, flutter etc.."

All details subject to change, naturally.


----------



## VSriHarsha

holywilly said:


> Performance Samples – Not for purists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pacific strings is coming in July and it offers loyalty discount, woohoo!


Are these the Strings shown on their home page? I thought these already released.


----------



## Pianolando

I for one am super exited about many dynamic layers. If it’s implemented well it may greatly expand the expression of the strings and make dynamic playing very smooth. I’d take that over multiple articulations or mic positions any day.

The posted crec-decrec recording sounded very smooth and beautiful to me. It did sound a lot like what I would expect if I wrote pp-f, f-pp (or even p) for a live section, not either super soft nor super loud (ppppp or ffffff or whatever it was). But I honestly don’t care, as long as it sounds super natural and dynamic. And this example did!


----------



## Jish

Pianolando said:


> I for one am super exited about many dynamic layers. If it’s implemented well it may greatly expand the expression of the strings and make dynamic playing very smooth. I’d take that over multiple articulations or mic positions any day.


Yeah, that's just it- I agree that it is a significant 'if' in a number of ways, which is why I'm somewhat relieved that it's Jasper tackling this rather uncharted territory, at this point in PS's creative 'lifespan'. I can easily imagine a scenario where a lesser experienced yet very ambitious developer tries their hand at it, with somewhat dissuading result's. Pacific alone should give us a very meaningful impression of what one might expect from a possible future where significantly more dynamic's are built into the library.


----------



## Soundbed

It’s happening! I just got an email. Where’s the Buy button?


----------



## Batrawi

Soundbed said:


> It’s happening! I just got an email. Where’s the Buy button?


Haven't got this one yet as vista owner😔 maybe still in the pipeline...


----------



## Soundbed

Batrawi said:


> Haven't got this one yet as vista owner😔 maybe still in the pipeline...


I guess it’s only an announcement about the loyalty sale… not that Pacific is on sale. It’s a picture that leads to the website. So, everything to learn is already on the website.


----------



## Kurosawa

It's for the current sale to obtain the PS products that make you eligible for the loyalty discount


----------



## Raphioli

Soundbed said:


> I guess it’s only an announcement about the loyalty sale… not that Pacific is on sale. It’s a picture that leads to the website. So, everything to learn is already on the website.


Last time I visited their website, it said they plan to release it during July.

I'm on the fence on this one.
I really like it, but I want Voyage more because of its intimate sound.(gotta set priorities unfortunately due to budget)
Believe me, if I were able to get both, I would lol
But I've heard Voyage would be even more expensive than Pacific, which is already 1k...
I don't know how much Voyage would cost, so I'm not sure if I could afford it, even if I save up, but might as well start saving up, right?...

But I still might get it (Pacific) if the loyalty price is really good... lol
It really sounds good.

BTW, regarding loyalty prices, what happens to ones with multiple libraries?
For example, there are 3 percussion libraries that are on loyalty sale.
Would the Pacific Percussion loyalty pricing change depending on wether you own 1 of the 3, or all 3?
It would be great if one of the beta testers could ask, since he's not here anymore.
Thx in advance!


----------



## Toecutter

Soundbed said:


> I guess it’s only an announcement about the loyalty sale… not that Pacific is on sale. It’s a picture that leads to the website. So, everything to learn is already on the website.








Don't play with my feelings like that again


----------



## Soundbed

Toecutter said:


> Don't play with my feelings like that again


nothing like an emotional roller coaster of a Monday, eh?


----------



## Toecutter

Soundbed said:


> nothing like an emotional roller coaster of a Monday, eh?


You have no idea, between this and the new Albion announcement in 15 minutes... I feel exhausted already XD


----------



## Soundbed

Toecutter said:


> You have no idea, between this and the new Albion announcement in 15 minutes... I feel exhausted already XD


oh the burdens we bear as informed orchestral sample library enthusiasts!


----------



## lettucehat

Raphioli said:


> BTW, regarding loyalty prices, what happens to ones with multiple libraries?
> For example, there are 3 percussion libraries that are on loyalty sale.
> Would the Pacific Percussion loyalty pricing change depending on wether you own 1 of the 3, or all 3?
> It would be great if one of the beta testers could ask, since he's not here anymore.
> Thx in advance!


I don't think I've ever seen multiple levels of discount based on the libraries you own, unfortunately. I think there's one loyalty intro price and you either get it or you don't based on previous purchases. Otherwise I'd be in really good shape for this one! It's probably too hard to implement every combination and come up with different pricing tiers.


----------



## jazzman7

Batrawi said:


> Haven't got this one yet as vista owner😔 maybe still in the pipeline...


If you have Vista, you are good to go from what the website said


----------



## jazzman7

lettucehat said:


> I don't think I've ever seen multiple levels of discount based on the libraries you own, unfortunately. I think there's one loyalty intro price and you either get it or you don't based on previous purchases. Otherwise I'd be in really good shape for this one! It's probably too hard to implement every combination and come up with different pricing tiers.


If you Vista or Con Moto you can get Pacific Strings for Loyalty pricing. Then when the Brass and Woods come out, you are already in the loyalty zone from what I gather That's a great sale on Angry Brass and Woods on its own. My poor wallet!


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I noticed that Pacific has Sordino Sustains, but no Sordino Legatos. 

Is this a final decision ? No Sordino Legatos ? 

It would have been very nice if it did include them.


----------



## Raphioli

lettucehat said:


> I don't think I've ever seen multiple levels of discount based on the libraries you own, unfortunately. I think there's one loyalty intro price and you either get it or you don't based on previous purchases. Otherwise I'd be in really good shape for this one! It's probably too hard to implement every combination and come up with different pricing tiers.


Thx for the reply.

I was wondering because while I do have their orchestral libraries, I don't have any of their percussion libraries.
So I was debating if I should get the one I like, or just buy the whole bundle during this loyalty sale.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I noticed that Pacific has Sordino Sustains, but no Sordino Legatos.
> 
> Is this a final decision ? No Sordino Legatos ?
> 
> It would have been very nice if it did include them.


Legatos weren’t recorded for sordinos, so it’s not really a matter of final decision or not. Jasper tells me in depth sordinos (including legato) are probably going to be explored in future string libraries of his. Legatos take a ton of time and effort to record (especially to his specifications), so doing those in addition to regular legatos would have made pacific significantly more expensive, I’m sure.


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> Legatos weren’t recorded for sordinos, so it’s not really a matter of final decision or not. Jasper tells me sordinos (including legato) are probably going to be explored in future string libraries of his. Legatos take a ton of time and effort to record (especially to his specifications), so doing those in addition to regular legatos would have made pacific significantly more expensive, I’m sure.


OK. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## axb312

artinro said:


> Legatos weren’t recorded for sordinos, so it’s not really a matter of final decision or not. Jasper tells me in depth sordinos (including legato) are probably going to be explored in future string libraries of his. Legatos take a ton of time and effort to record (especially to his specifications), so doing those in addition to regular legatos would have made pacific significantly more expensive, I’m sure.


Does Pacific have both slurred and bow change legatos?


----------



## Soundbed

axb312 said:


> Does Pacific have both slurred and bow change legatos?


Doesn’t look like it; to mimic the effect of changing bow direction (detaché) you’d almost certainly leave a short gap between notes.

Legato, by definition, is a series of notes that are played all in the same bow direction (fingered note transitions are legato). Con Moto is a specific library to perform detaché (not legato) and sounds a particular way while doing it. 

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong!


----------



## FireGS

I believe there is a combination of slur and bow change mixed (certain players doing one, some doing the other). @Mike T Didnt Jasper say this too? Similar to NSS, its not all slur, its not all bow change.


----------



## Toecutter

Legato is "mostly slurred - mostly because on celli, sometimes he had at least one player do bow-change, dynamic depending" more on this post, it has a bunch of useful information btw https://vi-control.net/community/th...pacific-symphonic-strings.108748/post-4837773

Yep even in NSS that is a mix between fingered and bow change legato (some players playing bow change, some fingered) I hear mostly bowed transitions. It certainly has a "sound" to it and limit its use imo. Oliver is working in an expansion that will have fully controllable "espressivo legato" so I hope it addresses the limitations... AO must be fed up with my requests, at least they know there's demand for variation XD


----------



## Toecutter

Trying to find another post about the legato compared to Vista's... something about Jasper preferring the legato in Pacific? Which is expected, like an evolution


----------



## FireGS

Toecutter said:


> Trying to find another post about the legato compared to Vista's... something about Jasper preferring the legato in Pacific? Which is expected, like an evolution


Yeah, that's why I've never really pulled the trigger on Vista. I can't honestly imagine a situation where you'd want to be slurring for every note connection. In many ways, bow change (a la Con Moto) can be used interchangeably with a slurred transition and not sound *wrong*, but slur all the time, to me, sounds wrong.

If Vista was the exact same group as Con Moto, in the exact same room, with the exact mics and could be swapped out when needed with Con Moto, I think we'd have a best of both worlds. I'm fine loading *another* patch ;P


----------



## Casiquire

FireGS said:


> Yeah, that's why I've never really pulled the trigger on Vista. I can't honestly imagine a situation where you'd want to be slurring for every note connection. In many ways, bow change (a la Con Moto) can be used interchangeably with a slurred transition and not sound *wrong*, but slur all the time, to me, sounds wrong.
> 
> If Vista was the exact same group as Con Moto, in the exact same room, with the exact mics and could be swapped out when needed with Con Moto, I think we'd have a best of both worlds. I'm fine loading *another* patch ;P


And if they could swap mid-phrase. I can use CSS shorts, close enough imo. But just one very, very specific legato type is just not enough


----------



## Toecutter

FireGS said:


> Yeah, that's why I've never really pulled the trigger on Vista. I can't honestly imagine a situation where you'd want to be slurring for every note connection. In many ways, bow change (a la Con Moto) can be used interchangeably with a slurred transition and not sound *wrong*, but slur all the time, to me, sounds wrong.
> 
> If Vista was the exact same group as Con Moto, in the exact same room, with the exact mics and could be swapped out when needed with Con Moto, I think we'd have a best of both worlds. I'm fine loading *another* patch ;P


found it: "This is Jasper's favorite space and there are plans to get a lot more recording done there, but, as far as Pacific, don't count on it. He can't commit to expansions, so anyone interested in this library should not have any expectations and take Pacific for what it is now. Legatos are "far superior to Vista" (opinion), and the "smoothest" he's done so far, commercially, most likely. Demos are coming."

yep I know what you mean. I was worried about the "slurred only" legato in Vista but heard some naked examples of the different attack types simulating bowed transitions... pretty smart stuff, it was a "light bulb" moment that showed me how Vista is far more than a "simple slurred legato" library.

Still no price yet? It would be great if there was a price before the end of the sale, I really want Vista but Vista AND Pacific may be too much, I may have to pick one or the other... or wait for Black Friday.


----------



## FireGS

Toecutter said:


> I really want Vista but Vista AND Pacific may be too much, I may have to pick one or the other... or wait for Black Friday.


...and Voyage


----------



## lettucehat

Trust me, the single legato type works out just fine in Vista, and by just fine I mean phenomenally. It looks much worse on paper than it sounds, for example in the many amazing demos. I think a lot of _other _libraries suffer from being fingered legato only, but here you've more variety than you'd initially think: two attack types, slurred legato that just works 95% of the time, and rebowed single notes.


----------



## axb312

axb312 said:


> I think the Vibrato in Vista is a bit OTT. *Does anyone think the loyalty discount on Pacific will be greater than or equal to 249 USD (over the expected intro price....) ?*


Anyone?


----------



## Snarf

axb312 said:


> Anyone?


Jasper usually has a 40% loyalty intro sale (e.g. with Vista, Angry Woodwinds & Brass Pro). Assuming the same will be true for Pacific Strings, which would be + 1k full price, the loyalty discount will be about 400$. So I'd say it's quite possible.


----------



## muziksculp

Looking forward to hear more demos of Pacific Strings when they are out of alpha/beta, and more polished and pre-release ready.


----------



## Jett Hitt

axb312 said:


> Anyone?


You can ensure the loyalty discount for as little as $79 if you buy one of the cheaper libraries. ( Ok never mind. I’m full of it.)


----------



## CT

FireGS said:


> @Mike T Didnt Jasper say this too?


Sorry, just saw this now, but it looks like the quote was already found. I do know he's enthusiastic about how this legato builds on what Vista did, but I'm not sure about any specifics yet.


----------



## Sovereign

Jett Hitt said:


> You can ensure the loyalty discount for as little as $79 if you buy one of the cheaper libraries.


Angry Woodwinds does not qualify for the Pacific strings loyalty price. See the tab. Only Vista and certain Con Moto products qualify.


----------



## muziksculp

*Pacific – Strings*: in order to qualify for the loyalty intro price for this product, you will need to own at least one of the following: 1. *Vista*, 2. *Con Moto – Cellos*, 3. *Con Moto – Violins A*, or 4. *Con Moto – Violins B*.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

muziksculp said:


> *Con Moto – Violins B*.


Heyo. Guess I can get the loyalty discount.

Even though Con Moto is discontinued, it'd be cool if Performance Samples allowed partial owners a path to complete it.


----------



## Jett Hitt

I guess I missed something. All those libraries are listed under loyalty discount. Must be some fine print I didn’t see.


----------



## Futchibon

It's VERY convoluted.

On the home page it implies under PACIFIC LOYALTY SALE that the products listed below are included. Which they are - technically. But you have to click not just on the link to the further information page, but then you have to click on the LOYALTY tab, which doesn't really jump out at you, to get the full details.

And there it tells you that you need either Vista or a form of Con Moto to qualify for Pacific Strings. THe other products listed don't qualify, but they do for their respective Pacific equavalent: eg. if you get Angry Brass you qualify for a Pacific Brass discount, and so on.

I hope that clears it up!


----------



## Casiquire

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Heyo. Guess I can get the loyalty discount.
> 
> Even though Con Moto is discontinued, it'd be cool if Performance Samples allowed partial owners a path to complete it.


Shoot him an email! Can't hurt to try


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Casiquire said:


> Shoot him an email! Can't hurt to try


I tried (in April), didn't hear back.

EDIT: Sent another email just now. I'll update if I hear back.

EDIT: Heard back. No completion path for partial-owners.


----------



## borisb2

> This sale lasts through the 28th of June.

the sale is already over? .. ok then


----------



## Jett Hitt

borisb2 said:


> > This sale lasts through the 28th of June.
> 
> the sale is already over? .. ok then


Jasper’s end dates never seem to be very firm.


----------



## muziksculp

Any update on the status of *Pacific Strings* ? 

Hopefully all is going well, and it will be out soon. 

Yup.. I'm super Excited about this library.


----------



## Trash Panda

muziksculp said:


> Any update on the status of *Pacific Strings* ?
> 
> Hopefully all is going well, and it will be out soon.
> 
> Yup.. I'm super Excited about this library.


The Muziksculp string library cycle is never-ending.

1) Excited for new library
2) Buys new library
3) Is disappointed by something in new library
4) Very much hopes for an update to the library that may or may not ever come
5) Gets excited for another new string library on the horizon


----------



## muziksculp

Trash Panda said:


> The Muziksculp string library cycle is never-ending.
> 
> 1) Excited for new library
> 2) Buys new library
> 3) Is disappointed by something in new library
> 4) Very much hopes for an update to the library that may or may not ever come
> 5) Gets excited for another new string library on the horizon


LOL .. why are you singling me out, I thought that was the M.O. of many on this forum.


----------



## Trash Panda

muziksculp said:


> LOL .. why are you singling me out, I thought that was the M.O. of many on this forum.


I dunno. Science?


----------



## muziksculp

Trash Panda said:


> I dunno. Science?


----------



## CT

Hi, Pacific Strings has been cancelled due to too much interest from muziksculp.


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> Hi, Pacific Strings has been cancelled due to too much interest from muziksculp.


Haha. 

So, let's see.. How about no one except Muziksculp is allowed to buy Pacific Strings when it is released. Since it is cancelled due to too much interest from Muziksculp


----------



## Trash Panda

muziksculp said:


> Haha.
> 
> So, let's see.. How about no one except Muziksculp is allowed to buy Pacific Strings when it is released. Since it is cancelled due to too much interest from Muziksculp


Who wants odds on whether Pacific or Infinite Strings release first?


----------



## muziksculp

@Trash Panda ,

Cancel your plans to buy Pacific Strings, it's only available for Muziksculp.


----------



## Trash Panda

muziksculp said:


> @Trash Panda ,
> 
> Cancel your plans to buy Pacific Strings, it's only available for Muziksculp.


Fine. I hope you hate the legato.


----------



## muziksculp

Trash Panda said:


> Who wants odds on whether Pacific or Infinite Strings release first?


PACIFIC Strings For Sure 

Infinite Strings will take an infinite time to be released.


----------



## muziksculp

Trash Panda said:


> Fine. I hope you hate the legato.


The Legato-Police will inspect the legatos, and give approval before I buy. No problem. I have it all figured out.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> The Legato-Police will inspect the legatos, and give approval before I buy. No problem. I have it all figured out.


What did I tell you about summoning the legato police?


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> What did I tell you about summoning the legato police?


I love you all on this forum. You make my days so exciting, and fun. 

Now where is Pacific Strings ?


----------



## SwordComposer

Apparently he's aiming for late July, according to a post he made in a discord server:


----------



## muziksculp

@SwordComposer ,

Thanks for the feedback. 

So... Late July, which could also become early August.


----------



## NickDorito

early 2022


----------



## Saxer

On Facebook...


----------



## Raphioli

Saxer said:


> On Facebook...


Love that setup he has.


----------



## chapbot

SwordComposer said:


> Apparently he's aiming for late July, according to a post he made in a discord server:


Is this the VI control discord?


----------



## Sovereign

End of July? Okay, going back to sleep ... Zzz


----------



## SwordComposer

chapbot said:


> Is this the VI control discord?


The Alex Moukala Composer discord


----------



## Getsumen

Definitely haven't been stalking the soundcloud for a month looking for stuff. Nope not me!




Edit: On a sorta different note. I'm not sure how commonly Ensemble Anvils are sampled, but those pacific anvils have a really nice impact.


----------



## muzark

I’m a bit confused. What’s the differences between Pacific and Voyage and what do they aim for ? They’re both “FULL ORCHESTRA LIBRARY” as described on the website.


----------



## wlinart

muzark said:


> I’m a bit confused. What’s the differences between Pacific and Voyage and what do they aim for ? They’re both “FULL ORCHESTRA LIBRARY” as described on the website.


AFAIK: Voyage is a chamber size string orchestra, Pacific is symphonic sized. Voyage is very comprehensive and has up to four types of trems, multiple types of arco shorts, trills, sords, harmonics, col legno, pizz, marcatos, clusters, legato, some other experimental ideas that may or may not make their way into the final library… Pacific is more a "bread and butter" type of library with the basic articulations. And because of that, Pacific should be way cheaper than Voyage.


----------



## muzark

wlinart said:


> AFAIK: Voyage is a chamber size string orchestra, Pacific is symphonic sized. Voyage is very comprehensive and has up to four types of trems, multiple types of arco shorts, trills, sords, harmonics, col legno, pizz, marcatos, clusters, legato, some other experimental ideas that may or may not make their way into the final library… Pacific is more a "bread and butter" type of library with the basic articulations. And because of that, Pacific should be way cheaper than Voyage.


Thanks, now I see.


----------



## Soundbed

It's July 20th. What would you say is the first day of "late" July?


----------



## muziksculp

Soundbed said:


> It's July 20th. What would you say is the first day of "late" July?


Are you taking over from Muziksculp ? 

Please do, I need some help.


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Even though it's been a while since the last update, here's a new demo featuring just spiccatos, unprocessed and with no reverb, at moderate and faster tempos.


----------



## muziksculp

Tinesaeriel said:


> Even though it's been a while since the last update, here's a new demo featuring just spiccatos, unprocessed and with no reverb, at moderate and faster tempos.



Thanks ! 

The Spicc. Sounds wonderful. So much dynamic range, and the length of the sampled Spicc. is just right, not too short, or too long. I can hear how they can perform expressive phrases towards the end of this clip. 

Looking forward to the release of Pacific towards the end of this month.


----------



## Getsumen

Also good to mention that this is with the noise reduce unlike the earlier examples. I like the amount.


----------



## Sovereign

So, any of the PS insiders here aware of wether this thing gets released this month still? Or are we looking at August already?


----------



## artinro

Checked in with Jasper this morning, he's been inundated with deeper finessing on the legatos and was delayed by the discovery of some new approaches. He expects it in the first few weeks of August.


----------



## Sovereign

artinro said:


> He expects it in the first few weeks of August.


So September it is then.


----------



## Sovereign

artinro said:


> Checked in with Jasper this morning, he's been inundated with deeper finessing on the legatos and was delayed by the discovery of some new approaches. He expects it in the first few weeks of August.


New approaches, like? With all the takes he did for the legatos he could easily do a pattern legato patch like in OT's symphonic strings.


----------



## ansthenia

artinro said:


> Checked in with Jasper this morning, he's been inundated with deeper finessing on the legatos and was delayed by the discovery of some new approaches. He expects it in the first few weeks of August.



Sample library creators should just stop giving estimates at this point. Pretty much every library I've been hyped about has gone through multiple delays.


----------



## muziksculp

New approaches to the legato, so more experimenting ... I sense we won't see Pacific released for quite a while, yes, maybe September if we are lucky. I was really looking forward to an end of July release, but sadly that's not the case now.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> New approaches to the legato, so more experimenting ... I sense we won't see Pacific released for quite a while, yes, maybe September if we are lucky. I was really looking forward to an end of July release, but sadly that's not the case now.


For some reason I don't mind it, I'll see him on Facebook posting updates etc so I know he's working on it and he seems like a good guy. Plus, what he produces really is pushing the envelope (I just created my first track with Con Moto and I'm kicking myself for not using it earlier lol!)

On the other hand I have developed a complete hatred for Sonokinetic and their stupid, disgusting way they strung everybody along for months and now they've gone completely silent.

A close second is Cinesamples. Hype, hype and more hype... then radio silence.


----------



## artinro

From what I know, Jasper works everyday, no breaks, very long days. He's been in high gear all summer long and worked through all holidays and his birthday. He's just about the last person to stagnate and is genuinely self-critical so, as a tester, I'm not concerned about his progress. From what he said about the legatos, as he's worked through the tweaking he's discovered a way to make it even smoother and other things - I'm sure he'll be able to elaborate soon. In any case, from what he told me this morning, the entire library is done, all noise reduction too -- with the exception of the full strings baked patches (not committed/baked yet) and legato patches are not quite final yet. But aside from those two things everything is totally done and actually could be released right now technically.


----------



## John R Wilson

chapbot said:


> For some reason I don't mind it, I'll see him on Facebook posting updates etc so I know he's working on it and he seems like a good guy. Plus, what he produces really is pushing the envelope (I just created my first track with Con Moto and I'm kicking myself for not using it earlier lol!)
> 
> On the other hand I have developed a complete hatred for Sonokinetic and their stupid, disgusting way they strung everybody along for months and now they've gone completely silent.
> 
> A close second is Cinesamples. Hype, hype and more hype... then radio silence.



Con Moto strings is very nice. It's been in my template ever since I got it. I wonder if the new pacific strings will sound similar to Con Moto at all. Unfortunately it is going to be way beyond my budget but I'm sure it'll be pretty dam good once its released!!


----------



## Geocranium

artinro said:


> Checked in with Jasper this morning, he's been inundated with deeper finessing on the legatos and was delayed by the discovery of some new approaches. He expects it in the first few weeks of August.


First few weeks of August is pretty vague... have you asked if he can be a little more pacific?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Sovereign said:


> New approaches, like? With all the takes he did for the legatos he could easily do a pattern legato patch like in OT's symphonic strings.


Jasper is thorough ‘cause he fears the reaction of the Legato Police otherwise 😀


----------



## lettucehat

I don't see how it makes sense to bemoan the multiple delays and then ask for a more specific estimate. The estimates are vague because he doesn't know; haven't any of you worked on something and not known how long it will take?


----------



## muziksculp

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Jasper is thorough ‘cause he fears the reaction of the Legato Police otherwise 😀


LOL, So we can now blame developer release delays on the VI-C Legato Police presence.

Sonokinetic, Cinesamples, are also delaying their releases, I wonder how many other string developers are not even mentioning their upcoming strings releases, it must be because of the Legato-Police, they are all nervous to show their legatos.


----------



## FireGS

artinro said:


> Checked in with Jasper this morning, he's been inundated with deeper finessing on the legatos and was delayed by the discovery of some new approaches. He expects it in the first few weeks of August.


Fiiiiine by me. Kinda broke right now anyway. I'd kick myself for missing the intro pricing.


----------



## muziksculp

Geocranium said:


> First few weeks of August is pretty vague... have you asked if he can be a little more pacific?


Well.. August has four weeks, the first weeks of August might mean one of the first two weeks. Not the last two weeks. 

But it still can be September, nothing is certain these days.


----------



## Casiquire

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Jasper is thorough ‘cause he fears the reaction of the Legato Police otherwise 😀


I thought PerformanceSamples has a Legato Police EZPass and gets automatic approval


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> I thought PerformanceSamples has a Legato Police EZPass and gets automatic approval


I think that EZPass was revoked by the Legato Police, so, no more automatic approvals. All legatos are subject to extensive Legato-Police testing, and approval. Hence all the delays.


----------



## Sovereign

Lol. I'm expecting Pacific to have the best legato of any lib I own. There are only two developers I'd give some sort of automatic approval. Jasper is one of them.


----------



## Geocranium

muziksculp said:


> Well.. August has four weeks, the first weeks of August might mean one of the first two weeks. Not the last two weeks.
> 
> But it still can be September, nothing is certain these days.


I don't actually mind or care when it's released all that much, I just wanted to drop my pun.


----------



## Bman70

John R Wilson said:


> Con Moto strings is very nice. It's been in my template ever since I got it. I wonder if the new pacific strings will sound similar to Con Moto at all. Unfortunately it is going to be way beyond my budget but I'm sure it'll be pretty dam good once its released!!


I'm not a fan of discontinuing perfectly useable libraries... probably would have bought Con Moto at some point, but not likely to go for these new ones. However, which one is most likely to "replace" Con Moto?


----------



## muziksculp

Bman70 said:


> I'm not a fan of discontinuing perfectly useable libraries... probably would have bought Con Moto at some point, but not likely to go for these new ones. However, which one is most likely to "replace" Con Moto?


Anyone know why Con Moto was discontinued ? I find it an odd decision.


----------



## chapbot

John R Wilson said:


> Con Moto strings is very nice. It's been in my template ever since I got it. I wonder if the new pacific strings will sound similar to Con Moto at all. Unfortunately it is going to be way beyond my budget but I'm sure it'll be pretty dam good once its released!!


What I think I have heard, Pacific will sound similar to Con Moto... maybe they're recorded in the same space?


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Anyone know why Con Moto was discontinued ? I find it an odd decision.


Isn't it some dumb thing like Kontact charges developers for licenses so I guess when a library runs its course a developer would have to pay for a license and probably not sell additional copies?


----------



## chapbot

artinro said:


> From what I know, Jasper works everyday, no breaks, very long days. He's been in high gear all summer long and worked through all holidays and his birthday. He's just about the last person to stagnate and is genuinely self-critical so, as a tester, I'm not concerned about his progress. From what he said about the legatos, as he's worked through the tweaking he's discovered a way to make it even smoother and other things - I'm sure he'll be able to elaborate soon. In any case, from what he told me this morning, the entire library is done, all noise reduction too -- with the exception of the full strings baked patches (not committed/baked yet) and legato patches are not quite final yet. But aside from those two things everything is totally done and actually could be released right now technically.


Are you able to reveal if the library has a close mic option and/or a closer first chair muc? I like that I can get Con Moto pretty dry.


----------



## lettucehat

chapbot said:


> Isn't it some dumb thing like Kontact charges developers for licenses so I guess when a library runs its course a developer would have to pay for a license and probably not sell additional copies?


That's for Player libraries, no such issue with normal libraries. I think it had something to do with simplifying the product line and Con Moto being less unique compared to Vista. Keep in mind Voyage is another planned library, so that would have been four total, with a lot of overlap and questions about what each one has and doesn't have.


----------



## muziksculp

I know that Con Moto used Bowed-Legato, Vista used Fingered-Legato.


----------



## artinro

chapbot said:


> What I think I have heard, Pacific will sound similar to Con Moto... maybe they're recorded in the same space?


Pacific is recorded in the same space as CM (and Caspian and FS1) but Pacific is a significantly larger group of players and CM is bow-change legato (and legato only). That said, they do match up quite well.


----------



## artinro

chapbot said:


> Are you able to reveal if the library has a close mic option and/or a closer first chair muc? I like that I can get Con Moto pretty dry.


Yes, there is a close mic option.


----------



## chapbot

artinro said:


> Yes, there is a close mic option


*swoon* thanks for the info!


----------



## John R Wilson

chapbot said:


> What I think I have heard, Pacific will sound similar to Con Moto... maybe they're recorded in the same space?


this is what I was thinking. If that is the case then I am kind of happy that I got Con Moto as the new Pacific strings are going to be way to expensive for me.


----------



## John R Wilson

artinro said:


> Pacific is recorded in the same space as CM (and Caspian and FS1) but Pacific is a significantly larger group of players and CM is bow-change legato (and legato only). That said, they do match up quite well.


If pacific is recorded in same place as CM then that may very well be the reason why Con moto has been discontinued as they are going to sound similar, but with more articulations.


----------



## Sovereign

John R Wilson said:


> If pacific is recorded in same place as CM then that may very well be the reason why Con moto has been discontinued as they are going to sound similar, but with more articulations.


The closest to Pacific in terms of sound would still be Vista, not Con Moto. I'd highly recommend picking that up in a sale if Pacific is out of reach. Con Moto lacks same note rebows (which always bothered me) and is really not a 'legato' patch per se. It's a performance detaché, separate bow strokes for each interval. Detaché playing is just as important as slurred legato, but they are not synonymous and interchangeable.


----------



## Soundbed

Sovereign said:


> The closest to Pacific in terms of sound would still be Vista, not Con Moto. I'd highly recommend picking that up in a sale if Pacific is out of reach. Con Moto lacks same note rebows (which always bothered me) and is really not a 'legato' patch per se. It's a performance detaché, separate bow strokes for each interval. Detaché playing is just as important as slurred legato, but they are not synonymous and interchangeable.


I just noticed your new avatar! Awesome!


----------



## Casiquire

Sovereign said:


> The closest to Pacific in terms of sound would still be Vista, not Con Moto. I'd highly recommend picking that up in a sale if Pacific is out of reach. Con Moto lacks same note rebows (which always bothered me) and is really not a 'legato' patch per se. It's a performance detaché, separate bow strokes for each interval. Detaché playing is just as important as slurred legato, but they are not synonymous and interchangeable.


And not enough libraries let you seamlessly switch between the two


----------



## Sunny Schramm

FLASH SALE at Performance Samples! 

(Not for PSS)


----------



## NickDorito

NickDorito said:


> It's never coming out


----------



## Sovereign

Reported for trying to ruin my week.


----------



## Rudianos

For this price not only must it sound good but it must also feel like I can control an orchestra with 2 hands and a foot.


----------



## Futchibon

Sunny Schramm said:


> FLASH SALE at Performance Samples!
> 
> (Not for PSS)


Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## CT

Rudianos said:


> For this price not only must it sound good but it must also feel like I can control an orchestra with 2 hands and a foot.


You should be using both feet!


----------



## Futchibon

What are people's opinions on Oceania 1 vs 2? Or SotS Violin 1 vs 2 for that matter?

I have all 8Dio's choirs and the ones from MA1, would I benefit from the Oceania choirs?


----------



## Soundbed

Futchibon said:


> What are people's opinions on Oceania 1 vs 2? Or SotS Violin 1 vs 2 for that matter?
> 
> I have all 8Dio's choirs and the ones from MA1, would I benefit from the Oceania choirs?


SotS Violin A is bow change detaché like Con Moto at a slightly lower dynamic than Violin B which is slurred legato like Vista at a slightly louder dynamic than A. Here’s a thread on them: https://vi-control.net/community/th...e-sea-comparison-violin-a-vs-violin-b.107927/

I never got Oceana 2…as I recall it was sort of a more refined Oceana. Someone else can confirm. (By memory… They are probably pretty similar sonically, with Oceana 2 being a bit more sophisticated for lack of a better word.)


----------



## FireGS

Soundbed said:


> I never got Oceana 2…as I recall it was sort of a more refined Oceana. Someone else can confirm. (By memory… They are probably pretty similar sonically, with Oceana 2 being a bit more sophisticated for lack of a better word.)


And also, I believe, double the vocalist count, or higher..


----------



## Getsumen




----------



## Halfstar

Sounds excellent. I really really can't wait for this thing to be released!!


----------



## muziksculp

Hopefully Pacific will be released this month.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Hopefully Pacific will be released this month.


What an amazing difference between performance samples and the other nitwit companies. Jasper is continually dropping little snippets of the library which keeps me satisfied whereas cinesamples gives us absolutely nothing... no updates... no sound clips...


----------



## lettucehat

chapbot said:


> What an amazing difference between performance samples and the other nitwit companies. Jasper is continually dropping little snippets of the library which keeps me satisfied whereas cinesamples gives us absolutely nothing... no updates... no sound clips...


I think that's a little harsh. You'll notice that there's no strategy other than releasing the damn libraries that stops people from getting pissed and annoying, so if you're developer you might wonder if there's any point to spending any time updating people. Some companies deserve it more than others, and yes I like the constant Pacific snippets because they instill confidence it's worth waiting for. But with CS in particular, and not to derail, I think there's probably more going on than just being lazy and/or disrespectful.


----------



## CT

Hi. Here’s another little glimpse of Pacific for anyone interested. 

I did this back in June actually (I think I mentioned it, but never posted it for some reason), with an earlier version of the Alpha, when some people expressed concern over there only being two types of short notes in the library (oh, and no 2nd violins). I do not share those concerns!

The close mics were turned down a bit. Otherwise, this is simply the sound of me playing the parts “out of the box.”

Beyond exploring how flexible the two short patches in the library can be, I think this little excerpt also displays a certain liveliness and musical energy that is, at the very least, uncommon in the world of virtual instruments. Trying to reproduce this passage just as effectively with other string libraries, ones I’m very fond of, did not really work out at all. 

View attachment b9unprocessed.mp3


Stay tuned....


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Mike T said:


> Hi. Here’s another little glimpse of Pacific for anyone interested.
> 
> I did this back in June actually (I think I mentioned it, but never posted it for some reason), with an earlier version of the Alpha, when some people expressed concern over there only being two types of short notes in the library (oh, and no 2nd violins). I do not share those concerns!
> 
> The close mics were turned down a bit. Otherwise, this is simply the sound of me playing the parts “out of the box.”
> 
> Beyond exploring how flexible the two short patches in the library can be, I think this little excerpt also displays a certain liveliness and musical energy that is, at the very least, uncommon in the world of virtual instruments. Trying to reproduce this passage just as effectively with other string libraries, ones I’m very fond of, did not really work out at all.
> 
> View attachment b9unprocessed.mp3
> 
> 
> Stay tuned....


I had no interest in this library until this demo.


----------



## CT

At the risk of being too effusive on a forum wary of hyperbolic VI marketing, about a developer who I've learned thrives on criticism rather than comfortable praise... I think it's going to be something special.


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> Hi. Here’s another little glimpse of Pacific for anyone interested.
> 
> I did this back in June actually (I think I mentioned it, but never posted it for some reason), with an earlier version of the Alpha, when some people expressed concern over there only being two types of short notes in the library (oh, and no 2nd violins). I do not share those concerns!
> 
> The close mics were turned down a bit. Otherwise, this is simply the sound of me playing the parts “out of the box.”
> 
> Beyond exploring how flexible the two short patches in the library can be, I think this little excerpt also displays a certain liveliness and musical energy that is, at the very least, uncommon in the world of virtual instruments. Trying to reproduce this passage just as effectively with other string libraries, ones I’m very fond of, did not really work out at all.
> 
> View attachment b9unprocessed.mp3
> 
> 
> Stay tuned....


WOW ! This sounds awesome, and this was an Alpha version. I wonder if they are even further improved once the library is released.

Thanks for sharing your demo.

Can't wait for Pacific Strings to be out .. This Month.


----------



## artinro

Mike T said:


> Hi. Here’s another little glimpse of Pacific for anyone interested.
> 
> I did this back in June actually (I think I mentioned it, but never posted it for some reason), with an earlier version of the Alpha, when some people expressed concern over there only being two types of short notes in the library (oh, and no 2nd violins). I do not share those concerns!
> 
> The close mics were turned down a bit. Otherwise, this is simply the sound of me playing the parts “out of the box.”
> 
> Beyond exploring how flexible the two short patches in the library can be, I think this little excerpt also displays a certain liveliness and musical energy that is, at the very least, uncommon in the world of virtual instruments. Trying to reproduce this passage just as effectively with other string libraries, ones I’m very fond of, did not really work out at all.
> 
> View attachment b9unprocessed.mp3
> 
> 
> Stay tuned....


Great work Mike! Couldn’t agree more.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> WOW ! This sounds awesome, and this was an Alpha version. I wonder if they are even further improved once the library is released.


Jasper has been working extremely hard on the patches since the alphas. That I can tell you for sure. They sounded outstanding even in alpha state.


----------



## muziksculp

Is Jasper planning on releasing Voyage Strings after Pacific Strings, or is he going to continue with another Pacific Section (i.e. Brass or Woodwinds) ? I'm just curious.


----------



## artinro

Mike T said:


> I did this back in June actually (I think I mentioned it, but never posted it for some reason), with an earlier version of the Alpha, when some people expressed concern over there only being two types of short notes in the library (oh, and no 2nd violins). I do not share those concerns!
> 
> The close mics were turned down a bit. Otherwise, this is simply the sound of me playing the parts “out of the box.”
> 
> Beyond exploring how flexible the two short patches in the library can be, I think this little excerpt also displays a certain liveliness and musical energy that is, at the very least, uncommon in the world of virtual instruments. Trying to reproduce this passage just as effectively with other string libraries, ones I’m very fond of, did not really work out at all.
> 
> View attachment b9unprocessed.mp3
> 
> 
> Stay tuned....



And @Mike T, I don’t want to put words in your mouth but I’d add that one of the beautiful things I’ve found about the patches is that you could likely bump the tempo up or down and not have to do ANY correction to the programming and you’d still get an equally convincing result. That’s the power here.


----------



## reids

Mike T said:


> Hi. Here’s another little glimpse of Pacific for anyone interested.
> 
> I did this back in June actually (I think I mentioned it, but never posted it for some reason), with an earlier version of the Alpha, when some people expressed concern over there only being two types of short notes in the library (oh, and no 2nd violins). I do not share those concerns!
> 
> The close mics were turned down a bit. Otherwise, this is simply the sound of me playing the parts “out of the box.”
> 
> Beyond exploring how flexible the two short patches in the library can be, I think this little excerpt also displays a certain liveliness and musical energy that is, at the very least, uncommon in the world of virtual instruments. Trying to reproduce this passage just as effectively with other string libraries, ones I’m very fond of, did not really work out at all.
> 
> View attachment b9unprocessed.mp3
> 
> 
> Stay tuned....


It sounds amazing, Mike. Great job. Keep them coming. Gladly dumping the rest of my cinesamples libraries to make room for these ones. Any info on estimated release dates? Are there brass and woodwinds alpha versions to show off yet as well?


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Is Jasper planning on releasing Voyage Strings after Pacific Strings, or is he going to continue with another Pacific Section (i.e. Brass or Woodwinds) ? I'm just curious.


Rest of pacific will be first. Likely percussion after strings.


----------



## Tekkera

Soundbed said:


> SotS Violin A is bow change detaché like Con Moto at a slightly lower dynamic than Violin B which is slurred legato like Vista at a slightly louder dynamic than A. Here’s a thread on them: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/on-sale-🎻solos-of-the-sea-comparison-violin-a-vs-violin-b.107927/
> 
> I never got Oceana 2…as I recall it was sort of a more refined Oceana. Someone else can confirm. (By memory… They are probably pretty similar sonically, with Oceana 2 being a bit more sophisticated for lack of a better word.)


Can confirm. Oceania 2 sample set is deeper, and overall it simply just sounds more aggressive, lively, and musical. The size is a lot larger but honestly, it's going to sound like a big ass blur anyway, you so might as well use the one that will more reliably sound better. Violin A and B are different though, B seems to have more samples but they are two different styles of playing.


----------



## jazzman7

Mike T said:


> Hi. Here’s another little glimpse of Pacific for anyone interested.
> 
> I did this back in June actually (I think I mentioned it, but never posted it for some reason), with an earlier version of the Alpha, when some people expressed concern over there only being two types of short notes in the library (oh, and no 2nd violins). I do not share those concerns!
> 
> The close mics were turned down a bit. Otherwise, this is simply the sound of me playing the parts “out of the box.”
> 
> Beyond exploring how flexible the two short patches in the library can be, I think this little excerpt also displays a certain liveliness and musical energy that is, at the very least, uncommon in the world of virtual instruments. Trying to reproduce this passage just as effectively with other string libraries, ones I’m very fond of, did not really work out at all.
> 
> View attachment b9unprocessed.mp3
> 
> 
> Stay tuned....


THAT is impressive!


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> Rest of pacific will be first. Likely percussion after strings.


Thanks. So, a complete Pacific Orchestra will be released before Voyage Strings. Makes sense.


----------



## Sovereign

Mike T said:


> Hi. Here’s another little glimpse of Pacific for anyone interested.
> 
> I did this back in June actually (I think I mentioned it, but never posted it for some reason), with an earlier version of the Alpha, when some people expressed concern over there only being two types of short notes in the library (oh, and no 2nd violins). I do not share those concerns!
> 
> The close mics were turned down a bit. Otherwise, this is simply the sound of me playing the parts “out of the box.”
> 
> Beyond exploring how flexible the two short patches in the library can be, I think this little excerpt also displays a certain liveliness and musical energy that is, at the very least, uncommon in the world of virtual instruments. Trying to reproduce this passage just as effectively with other string libraries, ones I’m very fond of, did not really work out at all.
> 
> View attachment b9unprocessed.mp3
> 
> 
> Stay tuned....


Some of this sounds good, some of it very strained and unnatural. I personally don't think the marcatos are a good substitute for the lack of a better variety of shorts.


----------



## Evans

Sovereign said:


> Some of this sounds good, some of it very strained and unnatural. I personally don't think the marcatos are a good substitute for the lack of a better variety of shorts.


Look at what we have here. The legato police expanding their purview.


----------



## Robin

Sovereign said:


> Some of this sounds good, some of it very strained and unnatural. I personally don't think the marcatos are a good substitute for the lack of a better variety of shorts.


Agreed, the marcato as substitutions for longer shorts unfortunately don't really sound that convincing.


----------



## Henning

Robin said:


> Agreed, the marcato as substitutions for longer shorts unfortunately don't really sound that convincing.


Hey Robin, I can only say that the marcatos came a long way since June. I actually think the marcatos can pull of longer shorts quite nicely now. Let's wait and see


----------



## Robin

Henning said:


> Hey Robin, I can only say that the marcatos came a long way since June. I actually think the marcatos can pull of longer shorts quite nicely now. Let's wait and see


I'm happy to stand corrected on that matter


----------



## CT

Yes, those patches are even more improved now since I had similar feelings initially.

That said, I'd heartily encourage the skeptical to attempt this with an existing library of their choosing. It is easy to sit back and pick at things in isolation. Much more worthwhile is to actually weigh something's strengths, in the context of its shortcomings, against the same of other libraries.


----------



## chapbot

Pacific is at a standstill, Jasper just posted on Facebook that he's having hearing problems:

Looks like this might be a case of sudden sensorineural hearing loss. Alternatively to speaker calibration, I'm observing mixed reviews about hearing aids for mixing and even listening. It looks like some extend up to 14k now. Feel free to PM if you have any thoughts/experiences. I currently have Pacific Strings at a standstill since I can't really hear what's going on.


----------



## soulofsound

What libraries is this demo written with? Or is it real, i can't say for sure.


----------



## artinro

It’s an Andy Blaney demo. The man is a legend. Spitfire Symphonic Strings, Brass, and winds demo. Outstanding libraries (I have all three). That said, wouldn’t do well with that Beethoven passage.


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Pacific is at a standstill, Jasper just posted on Facebook that he's having hearing problems:
> 
> Looks like this might be a case of sudden sensorineural hearing loss. Alternatively to speaker calibration, I'm observing mixed reviews about hearing aids for mixing and even listening. It looks like some extend up to 14k now. Feel free to PM if you have any thoughts/experiences. I currently have Pacific Strings at a standstill since I can't really hear what's going on.


I just checked PS Facebook page, but didn't see any posts regarding the hearing loss issue you mention.


----------



## Trash Panda

Sovereign said:


> Some of this sounds good, some of it very strained and unnatural. I personally don't think the marcatos are a good substitute for the lack of a better variety of shorts.


You’re outside of your jurisdiction, officer! I’ll be reporting this to your superiors.


----------



## jaketanner

muziksculp said:


> I just checked PS Facebook page, but didn't see any posts regarding the hearing loss issue you mention.


from Jasper: "Update from my previous post, regarding possible sudden sensorineural hearing loss. I'm currently exploring options for this - ENT just started me on oral prednisone but I may be outside the ideal recovery window at this point. He mentioned injecting into the ear as an addition. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy was not recommended by the ENT in this case, and was $50k. I know this kind of thing is pretty rare, but I'm curious to hear any suggestions or ideas to try from those who've experienced similar sudden hearing loss experiences (PM is fine too)."


----------



## muziksculp

Trash Panda said:


> You’re outside of your jurisdiction, officer! I’ll be reporting this to your superiors.


I think I might join the Stacc./Spicc. VI-C  to help him out


----------



## Trash Panda

muziksculp said:


> I think I might join the Stacc./Spicc. VI-C  to help him out


You’re out of control, Sculp! Turn over your badge and gun.


----------



## muziksculp

jaketanner said:


> from Jasper: "Update from my previous post, regarding possible sudden sensorineural hearing loss. I'm currently exploring options for this - ENT just started me on oral prednisone but I may be outside the ideal recovery window at this point. He mentioned injecting into the ear as an addition. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy was not recommended by the ENT in this case, and was $50k. I know this kind of thing is pretty rare, but I'm curious to hear any suggestions or ideas to try from those who've experienced similar sudden hearing loss experiences (PM is fine too)."


Oh.. that's sad. I wish him a fast recovery. ENT Doctors are very advanced these days, and capable of curing many ENT issues. 

I had to deal with vocal cord cancer, ENT Doctors, and eventually had a surgery last month to remove the cancerous growth on my left vocal cord. I'm cured, and my voice will regain its strength in 3 to 6 months. Anything to do with the ear, and it's delicate structure, is quite disturbing for us musicians. I really hope he gets over this soon. It must be very difficult to experience hearing loss, even a slight bit. It could also be due to inflammation of the middle ear, or other factors. I once experienced Vertigo, and hearing loss from it, that was a nightmare experience for me, but it was cured via anti-inflammation medication.


----------



## artinro

Mike T said:


> And as others have said... Andy is the best at what he does. Can't listen to whatever you posted at the moment, but if it isn't this same passage rendered impeccably with a different library, I don't think it means much in the context of this discussion.


Mike, it's one of Andy's outstanding tracks for the Spitfire Symphonic Range ("Kraken"). The guy just nails all of his demos for Spitfire and he knows how to get the absolute max out of those libraries; I'm a huge fan of his incredible work. That said, I'm confident even he couldn't do a fully realistic version of the Beethoven passage with JUST the Spitfire Symphonic Strings. As someone who uses those strings on an almost daily basis, I know it's strengths and weaknesses quite well.

By the way, it's likely we all have a number of outstanding string libraries already and, to me, the point of Mike's demo (and my little Berlioz snippet from a few months ago) was simply to show the flexibility with two patches per section straight out of the box with just one library. (And let's not forget that these patches have undergone a bunch of additional work since the alpha phase). If I were doing a fully fleshed out Beethoven or Berlioz mockup (lord help me), I'd likely use a ton of different libraries and pick and choose on an almost measure by measure basis just to maximize realism. Pacific would probably feature prominently, but it wouldn't be the only library. I think it's great (dare I say necessary) to have as many options for one's sample work as possible. It's even greater when a new library adds something to the palette that hasn't been done as well by what one already owns. I strongly feel that's the case with Pacific.

(And for the record, I'm also a tester for PS and I also don't work for the company. I am quite fond of Jasper's work though, obviously).


----------



## JF

MaxOctane said:


> How in the hell is there an argument still going on about the demo realism, when the library author --long-known to many here-- just posted that he's suffering from sudden and serious hearing loss?
> 
> WTF kind of community is this?


I agree. Anyone losing their hearing is devastating, but especially a composer. Who cares who's demo is better? Good luck Jasper! Take your time to heal.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> I just checked PS Facebook page, but didn't see any posts regarding the hearing loss issue you mention.


It's his personal page.


----------



## Kony

Daniel James will apparently be having a look at the Pacific strings shorts on his Twitch this Saturday.


----------



## Casiquire

I'm not sure if the mods here have such a thing as a cooling-off period, but if all that keeps going, it might be called for.

My stomach is in knots over just the thought of Jasper with all that talent and passion for writing and recording having trouble with his hearing. For the people with access to his page, please keep us updated, within the bounds of respect for his privacy


----------



## CT

Looks like management has removed some of the drama, but I think one more thing needs to be said.

I am probably not the first to point this out, but as critical as I, and anyone else here might be about these things, Jasper is even more. I don't think he was nearly as enthusiastic about how the Beethoven turned out as I was. I heard a kind of raw excitement I miss in most samples. He heard things that needed to be improved. I shared a video of a real performance of the piece with him, and his reaction was that he has "a long way to go." I had sent it to kind of say, "hey, look, it's close!"

There's a reason why projects come out of nowhere with Performance Samples, and pile on top of each other like Pacific and Voyage. He's always looking to improve and build on things. I think that's quite admirable, and it gives me hope about what he does and how he does it. Not that everything will be perfect, not that I will delete every other library I've ever bought because there's just no competition... but that he will actually keep refining things in meaningful ways that make our existence as computer-tethered composers a little less difficult, and maybe, even, a little pleasant.

Pacific is not a "destination." It's another stop on the road. If you're dissatisfied with something there, say so, and maybe things will be different on the next stop. But my honest, un-$hilled take here is that to ignore this library because of a lack of many different short note lengths is a paradigm of missing the forest for the trees.

And, if it even need be said, my volatile posting on here is not representative of Performance Samples or its beliefs.  I am cripplingly self-critical, and despite my earlier joking do not actually enjoy this kind of drama, but I will not simply nod thoughtfully in response if I think someone is off the mark in their own criticisms of my work or character.

By the way, the empathy you guys are showing here is a refreshing change from the earlier lunacy, so thanks for helping me not become even more misanthropic as a result of that....


----------



## Pianolando

chapbot said:


> Pacific is at a standstill, Jasper just posted on Facebook that he's having hearing problems:
> 
> Looks like this might be a case of sudden sensorineural hearing loss. Alternatively to speaker calibration, I'm observing mixed reviews about hearing aids for mixing and even listening. It looks like some extend up to 14k now. Feel free to PM if you have any thoughts/experiences. I currently have Pacific Strings at a standstill since I can't really hear what's going on.



That is aweful, what a nightmare for him. I really hope he will get better soon.


----------



## axb312

Kony said:


> Daniel James will apparently be having a look at the Pacific strings shorts on his Twitch this Saturday.


Where is this info from? 

Tough hearing about a talented composer losing his hearing. Hopefully its not permanent...


----------



## Sovereign

Ouch, this is some bad news I woke up to, hope Jasper gets well soon.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

This Is Horrible :( Some times on here , people really do forget we are dealing with human beings , with human feelings and problems :( 

I am not involved with Jasper in anyway, but as he has given so much to the VI Community ( In both senses) , is there not some sort of Crowdfunding that can be done to see about helping restore his hearing ? 

Purely for the talented Guy to be able to enjoy music, does not matter about the samples at this point :( 

Each of us needs to take a second to think about what it would be like, to wake up tomorrow, and to not be able to hear your favourite music as you would want- ever again. I am sure there are many other talented composers that already suffer from being deaf or hearing loss :(


----------



## Francis Bourre

That's a really sad news. I'm so sorry. Love, health and best energies to you if you read this thread.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Woke up in the morning and read jasper's post. Heartbreaking, I really hope it will get better. Such a great person and talented composer, for something like that to happen to a musician...it's hell.


----------



## soulofsound

If the hearing loss if from working too long hours, maybe we can all reflect on how we maybe shouldn't complain when a release date is pushed back.


----------



## Niah2

Devastating news to hear, I still can't believe it. :-( 

Jasper is an outstanding talent and I sincerely hope he gets well very soon.


----------



## reids

Just reading this now and have not seen the post since I do not use FB. Our prayers to jasper and the PS team. How dire is the situation? Is he just having temporary hearing issues, longterm hearing issues, or can he not hear anything at all anymore? Devastating news for everyone. Please get well soon.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Do we know if he is experiencing a minute amount of hearing loss, or is it more of a major degree of hearing loss ? Could it be due to ear fatigue, if so, he might just need a good ear rest. I don't know. 

There are very good ENT Doctors that can help him. I don't even know where he is located, but I would be more than happy to try to help.


----------



## Nicola74

It seems that Jasper posted a demo for Pacific Percussion on Facebook (please check if this is true, I don't have Facebook...).
Hopefully this means he is getting better with hearing loss


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Nicola74 said:


> It seems that Jasper posted a demo for Pacific Percussion on Facebook (please check if this is true, I don't have Facebook...).
> Hopefully this means he is getting better with hearing loss


It is indeed true. I do hope he is getting better,seems like he continues working after all. He posted a short percussion demo on performance samples SoundCloud for whoever is interested.









Performance Samples


www.performancesamples.com




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## muziksculp

Nicola74 said:


> It seems that Jasper posted a demo for Pacific Percussion on Facebook (please check if this is true, I don't have Facebook...).
> Hopefully this means he is getting better with hearing loss


Thanks for the update, that's good news, his hearing issue might have been due to ear fatigue, and he just needed a break, especially given his tendency to work for very long hours. 

Those Pacific Perc. demos sound awesome, and I can hear how dynamic they are.


----------



## artinro

Hey folks,

I spoke with Jasper to see how he’s feeling and I asked if I could share what we discussed here for those in the community who are concerned about him. I also mentioned that many here were asking:

He’s running three concurrent treatments for sudden hearing loss. No perceptible changes yet but he’s taking it very seriously and is being very proactive about solutions and actively working on the issue with doctors. 

He mentioned that he’s back on task with the strings and percussion. Percussion is probably halfway done. Strings are all done except legato finesse.


----------



## Niah2

artinro said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I spoke with Jasper to see how he’s feeling and I asked if I could share what we discussed here for those in the community who are concerned about him. I also mentioned that many here were asking:
> 
> He’s running three concurrent treatments for sudden hearing loss. No perceptible changes yet but he’s taking it very seriously and is being very proactive about solutions and actively working on the issue with doctors.
> 
> He mentioned that he’s back on task with the strings and percussion. Percussion is probably halfway done. Strings are all done except legato finesse.


Hello artinro, thank you so much for the update.


----------



## muziksculp

@artinro ,

Thanks for updating us. 

I'm surprised that he is back on task, working on Pacific Strings, and Perc. given his hearing loss condition. 

Do you know if he is experiencing a high degree of hearing loss, or is it more of a minor amount of hearing loss ? 

Thanks.


----------



## Casiquire

I'm so glad it seems like there's some progress.



muziksculp said:


> @artinro ,
> 
> Thanks for updating us.
> 
> I'm surprised that he is back on task, working on Pacific Strings, and Perc. given his hearing loss condition.
> 
> Do you know if he is experiencing a high degree of hearing loss, or is it more of a minor amount of hearing loss ?
> 
> Thanks.



I'm sure there's a lot to do that doesn't even require listening much so I'm not totally surprised he's still working. We all know he's passionate about this and doesn't seem to have an "off" switch


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> @artinro ,
> 
> Thanks for updating us.
> 
> I'm surprised that he is back on task, working on Pacific Strings, and Perc. given his hearing loss condition.
> 
> Do you know if he is experiencing a high degree of hearing loss, or is it more of a minor amount of hearing loss ?
> 
> Thanks.


I don't know the extent of hearing loss, but it was affecting his hearing enough to make work very challenging. He's pushing through though for the time being and said he wants to keep things moving along.


----------



## MaxOctane

Last year I had sudden hearing loss in my right ear. At first everything sounded like it was going through a comb filter, and then all tones below 220Hz just disappeared. This had me worried enough to see an ENT specialist, who found nothing structurally wrong in my ear.

It turned out to be only the result of seasonal allergies which left my middle/inner ear very congested, which suddenly hit me hard in the new neighborhood we moved into, and I'd never experienced before. It eventually cleared up after ~6 weeks.

The same allergy hit me again this year, but now instead of hearing loss, it's vertigo (loss of balance and the room spins and spins if I move my head too fast). Luckily, this is also clearing up.

All this is to say: hopefully Jasper will also learn that his was only a temporary hiccup that resolves itself.


----------



## muziksculp

MaxOctane said:


> it's vertigo (loss of balance and the room spins and spins if I move my head too fast). Luckily, this is also clearing up.


Oh.. man .. That's a horrible feeling, I wish you a speedy, and full recovery from it. 

I experienced Vertigo around 11 years ago, it was a nightmare experience for me. It was due to inflammation of the middle ear that effected the fluid, and hair like sensors of the middle ear. Which also resulted in some hearing loss, that was a bonus. Antiinflammation meds helped me get better in about a week to 10 days, my hearing got better in a matter of a months time. I remember feeling very panicky about it, couldn't enjoy listening to music as I normally did, or producing it. 

I wish Jasper a full recovery from his hearing loss condition, and advise him to be optimistic, and stay positive.


----------



## soulofsound

MaxOctane said:


> Last year I had sudden hearing loss in my right ear. At first everything sounded like it was going through a comb filter, and then all tones below 220Hz just disappeared. This had me worried enough to see an ENT specialist, who found nothing structurally wrong in my ear.
> 
> It turned out to be only the result of seasonal allergies which left my middle/inner ear very congested, which suddenly hit me hard in the new neighborhood we moved into, and I'd never experienced before. It eventually cleared up after ~6 weeks.
> 
> The same allergy hit me again this year, but now instead of hearing loss, it's vertigo (loss of balance and the room spins and spins if I move my head too fast). Luckily, this is also clearing up.
> 
> All this is to say: hopefully Jasper will also learn that his was only a temporary hiccup that resolves itself.


I have had the exact same thing. My doctor wanted to make sure it wasn't Ménière's disease, so I went to an audiologist, who said my hearing is very good. I found out they only check up to 10k so I am not convinced that my hearing is that good in fact. But anyway, the vertigo went away as fast as it came some time later. It is one of the worst feelings i have ever had. So glad it cured of itself. I can sympathize when i hear of a case like Jasper's. Glad you are feeling better, too.


----------



## Halfstar

Meanwhile, Jasper's just put out another percussion demo of taikos/snares etc... and they sound FANTASTIC. I don't think I've ever been so excited about a library as Pacific!


----------



## Nicola74

I am excited about Pacific, but also about...Voyage


----------



## Halfstar

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> To me it sounds like these drums were placed deep down a narrow hall and then recorded.
> 
> Same with the other percussion libraries from PS.
> 
> Not a fan.



There's a close mic, far mic and a new mid mic control option. I have to disagree, I think the percussion is sounding really organic and life-like. I guess we'll find out when it's released...


----------



## Tinesaeriel

New Demo of Pacific (with some Vista mixed in) by Michał Cielecki is up!


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Tinesaeriel said:


> New Demo of Pacific (with some Vista mixed in) by Michał Cielecki is up!



Sounds absolutely incredible, can't wait for it to be out. Jasper is doing such an amazing work!


----------



## soulofsound

Wonderful demo but why is it so distorted?


----------



## Bernard Duc

soulofsound said:


> Wonderful demo but why is it so distorted?


I might be some saturation going on, but what should sound nice can sound quite terrible with Soundcloud compression which is pretty awful.


----------



## muziksculp

The waveforms showing up in the player tell me it was mixed quite hot (Loud), I'm guessing Soundcloud's compression algorithm messed with the original sound of the mix, distorting the peaks. I wouldn't add any saturation to a library I'm trying to showcase.


----------



## Bernard Duc

muziksculp said:


> The waveforms showing up in the player tell me it was mixed quite hot (Loud), I'm guessing Soundcloud's compression algorithm messed with the original sound of the mix, distorting the peaks. I wouldn't add any saturation to a library I'm trying to showcase.


There might not even be saturation added, Soundcloud is just really bad with loud orchestral stuff I noticed.


----------



## muziksculp

Bernard Duc said:


> There might not even be saturation added, Soundcloud is just really bad with loud orchestral stuff I noticed.


Yes, that's what I'm saying, I don't think there is any added saturation on the mix, the distortion is due to Soundcloud's algorithm.


----------



## holywilly

The short spiccato sounds so sweet! Can't wait for the release.


----------



## muziksculp

Looking forward to hear the newer legatos of Pacific in a demo whenever that is ready, and hopefully Jasper's hearing is improving with time, and treatment.


----------



## Halfstar

Yep, sound quality probably didn't translate well using soundcloud here but the library itself sounds so good. Waiting ever so patiently for the release....


----------



## dcoscina

MaxOctane said:


> Last year I had sudden hearing loss in my right ear. At first everything sounded like it was going through a comb filter, and then all tones below 220Hz just disappeared. This had me worried enough to see an ENT specialist, who found nothing structurally wrong in my ear.
> 
> It turned out to be only the result of seasonal allergies which left my middle/inner ear very congested, which suddenly hit me hard in the new neighborhood we moved into, and I'd never experienced before. It eventually cleared up after ~6 weeks.
> 
> The same allergy hit me again this year, but now instead of hearing loss, it's vertigo (loss of balance and the room spins and spins if I move my head too fast). Luckily, this is also clearing up.
> 
> All this is to say: hopefully Jasper will also learn that his was only a temporary hiccup that resolves itself.


I've had this since a couple years ago too. I credit it to a smaller eustachian tube in the left ear. I also find sugar and sodium tends to aggravate it. I get a low rumbling sound when it strikes- Flonase and sinus rinses help in the summer for allergies. I've had it since mid July this year. Allergies this summer have been worse than normal.

I saw an audiologist a year back and my actual hearing is very good for my age- 53 but my hearing is at early 30s they said which is good. But when this ailment strikes it's damn annoying...


----------



## Getsumen

Just noticed per the description 
"Master updated 17-Aug-21."


Haven't given it a listen yet but I presume it was adjusted to compensate for Soundcloud compression and might sound better now for those who wanted a more clearer listen


----------



## muziksculp

Getsumen said:


> Just noticed per the description
> "Master updated 17-Aug-21."
> 
> 
> Haven't given it a listen yet but I presume it was adjusted to compensate for Soundcloud compression and might sound better now for those who wanted a more clearer listen



Thanks for posting this. It surely sounds much cleaner now.


----------



## Soundbed

Getsumen said:


> Just noticed per the description
> "Master updated 17-Aug-21."
> 
> 
> Haven't given it a listen yet but I presume it was adjusted to compensate for Soundcloud compression and might sound better now for those who wanted a more clearer listen



Holy crap that sounds great to me. Finally after a week out of the studio (5 days) I am catching up on some listening. Really amazing to hear this. My dollars have been slipping away on little things, I need to keep some saved up for this!


----------



## Halfstar

Wish we had an update on it though, I'm checking Performance Samples' Facebook and this thread over and over every day for new some new info 😂


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Any news from people with inside information? 😜 don't remember myself waiting for a library like I'm waiting for this one 😃


----------



## Futchibon




----------



## Niv Schrieber

Futchibon said:


>


Potentially, pacific can come out any day now, we just don't know 🤤


----------



## Argy Ottas




----------



## Niv Schrieber

OK so I asked Jasper on facebook and this is what he said:

"Niv, I originally was aiming for around Aug. 20-25 for the strings but with the hearing issue had to push it back until September, which I really didn't want to do. I'm doing hyperbaric and other treatments nearly daily but am working hard on Pacific Strings around that (once the legatos are done it will be good-to-go). Percussion is nearly complete as well."

So...apparently September it is for the strings.


----------



## Drundfunk

The Yotube track is the first thing which doesn't convince me. The sound is still there, but it feels jerky somehow (I have no idea if that word describes it. I looked it up in a dictionary. What I mean could best be compared to a novice driver who is trying to get the hang of accelerating and breaking, and when you are inside the car you are shaken back and forth. I have no idea if that makes any sense...). But everything else I heard so far on Soundcloud sounded fantastic, so I have no idea what happened there. Is anyone else hearing it or am I going crazy?


----------



## Argy Ottas

Drundfunk said:


> The Yotube track is the first thing which doesn't convince me. The sound is still there, but it feels jerky somehow (I have no idea if that word describes it. I looked it up in a dictionary. What I mean could best be compared to a novice driver who is trying to get the hang of accelerating and breaking, and when you are inside the car you are shaken back and forth. I have no idea if that makes any sense...). But everything else I heard so far on Soundcloud sounded fantastic, so I have no idea what happened there. Is anyone else hearing it or am I going crazy?


This is the original track that is been featured in the YT video.




Jasper probably made a custom intro and outro to fit the footage and used the ⬆️ main theme in between.
You might mean the transitions???


----------



## Covent Garden

To Jasper - if you read that:
Please Jasper, pay attention to you and your health! You have invited us into a wonderful new world of sampling with your inspiring Libs, BUT it is not really important, that Pacific Strings are starting in August or September or even later. It seems so promising and if it takes more time and you'll stay healthy instead - it's allright, because it doesn't help anyone, if you'll be sick again.
Just my 2 Cents ...

And yes the demos are very promising ...


----------



## holywilly

It’s an instant buy if the trailer track is “Polar”.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Futchibon said:


>


Unfortunately Both is the answer. Hence why that poor man starved to death, from the purchase of two of the best sample libraries and thus having to go without food. Shakespeare tends to gloss over that bit though. "2B" refers to the second divisi violins. Probably.


----------



## Futchibon

Paul Jelfs said:


> Unfortunately Both is the answer. Hence why that poor man starved to death, from the purchase of two of the best sample libraries and thus having to go without food. Shakespeare tends to gloss over that bit though. "2B" refers to the second divisi violins. Probably.


I thought he starved to death waiting for the Bohemian Viola?


----------



## Drundfunk

Argy Ottas said:


> This is the original track that is been featured in the YT video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jasper probably made a custom intro and outro to fit the footage and used the ⬆️ main theme in between.
> You might mean the transitions???



Ok that is definitely better. It's either YT or the video render which messes with it I guess. Kinda relieved....


----------



## muziksculp

Looking forward to the release of Pacific Strings in September. 

Also hoping that Jasper's ears condition is improving.


----------



## muziksculp

holywilly said:


> It’s an instant buy if the trailer track is “Polar”.


What does 'Polar' mean in this sentence ?


----------



## Niv Schrieber

muziksculp said:


> What does 'Polar' mean in this sentence ?


He probably refers to Michal cielecki's demo for the library.


----------



## muziksculp

Niv Schrieber said:


> He probably refers to Michal cielecki's demo for the library.


How does that demo relate to the Trailer track ?


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Niv Schrieber

From a performance samples Instagram story published a few minutes ago:


----------



## Niah2

Pacific solo timpani, sounds pretty good !


----------



## jaketanner

Niah2 said:


> Pacific solo timpani, sounds pretty good !



I'd like to hear solo hits rather than rolls.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Whats the guessing on Intro + Loyalty pricing ? $500-600 for those that own both Con Moto and Vista. Seems as the original full price will be $999

And do you think it will be different tiers of intro pricing ? Or just one for all - So , if you own Con Moto Violins B, you will get the same discount as having both full string libraries ? 

Maybe nothing has been decided yet, but it won't be long until we find out.


----------



## Evans

Paul Jelfs said:


> Whats the guessing on Intro + Loyalty pricing ? $500-600 for those that own both Con Moto and Vista. Seems as the original full price will be $999
> 
> And do you think it will be different tiers of intro pricing ? Or just one for all - So , if you own Con Moto Violins B, you will get the same discount as having both full string libraries ?
> 
> Maybe nothing has been decided yet, but it won't be long until we find out.


Obviously, this could change, but there's _some _information here on the current Pacific page:





Pacific – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## Marco_D

Paul Jelfs said:


> And do you think it will be different tiers of intro pricing ? Or just one for all - So , if you own Con Moto Violins B, you will get the same discount as having both full string libraries ?


The wording on the website suggests no tiers. Either you qualify or you don't. At least I hope so, because I'm exactly the guy in your example who only has Con Moto B...


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Paul Jelfs said:


> Whats the guessing on Intro + Loyalty pricing ? $500-600 for those that own both Con Moto and Vista. Seems as the original full price will be $999
> 
> And do you think it will be different tiers of intro pricing ? Or just one for all - So , if you own Con Moto Violins B, you will get the same discount as having both full string libraries ?
> 
> Maybe nothing has been decided yet, but it won't be long until we find out.


I'm betting between 600-700$,sounds reasonable for a loyalty+intro pricing.


----------



## Sovereign




----------



## Futchibon

$499 loyalty intro! Wow, I’m in!


----------



## Casiquire

Sovereign said:


>


Pretty generous considering many products are much cheaper than the amount of the discount


----------



## Argy Ottas

I was ready to give up the idea of buying Pacific and go for Vista instead (Con Moto owner). Now things have changed... I can smell the sea air now...


----------



## muziksculp

Given that Pacific Strings doesn't offer Violins 2, are you planning to use the Kontakt transposition trick to create a Violins 2 patch ? or ..... ?


----------



## Kony

Just noticed on the website: "PACIFIC STRINGS is built for Kontakt v6.6".


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Why do these developers not 1) record second violins or 2) include a pre-made patch with the transposition trick? Same issue in Nashville Strings. I think it is ridiculous at this price point especially.


----------



## Argy Ottas

muziksculp said:


> Given that Pacific Strings doesn't offer Violins 2, are you planning to use the Kontakt transposition trick to create a Violins 2 patch ? or ..... ?


Having the full Con Moto bundle, it's an easy solution for me to use CM Violins B, considering that both libraries are recorded in the same space (if I am not wrong).


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

I haven't really found the lack of 2nd violins to be a problem in other libraries I've used. Is writing unison parts for 1st and 2nd violins really that common?

Personally, if I'm wanting the entire violins section playing the same thing and I don't have 2nds available (or sometimes even if I do), I just use a single violins track and balance the mix appropriately.


----------



## muziksculp

Argy Ottas said:


> Having the full Con Moto bundle, it's an easy solution for me to use CM Violins B, considering that both libraries are recorded in the same space (if I am not wrong).


But Con Moto, or Vista only offer legato articulation. What about the other articulations ?


----------



## muziksculp

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I haven't really found the lack of 2nd violins to be a problem in other libraries I've used. Is writing unison parts for 1st and 2nd violins really that common?
> 
> Personally, if I'm wanting the entire violins section playing the same thing and I don't have 2nds available (or sometimes even if I do), I just use a single violins track and balance the mix appropriately.


Violins 2 are normally used for adding texture, or counter melodic lines to the first violins, including playing in Unison, or in Octaves with Violins 1.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

muziksculp said:


> Given that Pacific Strings doesn't offer Violins 2, are you planning to use the Kontakt transposition trick to create a Violins 2 patch ? or ..... ?


I usually just use the transposition trick and pan and mix accordingly. Used to it since so many string libraries do not record 2nd Violins.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

muziksculp said:


> Violins 2 are normally used for adding texture, or counter melodic lines to the first violins, including playing in Unison, or in Octaves with Violins 1.


For countermelody and octave parts, though, there is no problem with just using the same violins patch again. It only becomes a problem if they're playing the exact same notes in unison.

I prefer to avoid the transposition trick, generally, as it's altering the timbre in an artificial way to avoid a rare situation that you can more easily avoid in your writing.


----------



## muziksculp

Niv Schrieber said:


> I usually just use the transposition trick and pan and mix accordingly


That's what I plan to do. I have Vista, but I don't think that's the best option, since it only offers legato.


----------



## Argy Ottas

muziksculp said:


> But Con Moto, or Vista only offer legato articulation. What about the other articulations ?


Well... Personally I think that it's easier to "cheat" the rest articulations with the transportation trick.  OK FINE you win...


----------



## muziksculp

Sarah Mancuso said:


> For countermelody and octave parts, though, there is no problem with just using the same violins patch again. It only becomes a problem if they're playing the exact same notes in unison.


That's true, you can easily use Vlns1 to emulate Vlns 2 playing a texture (i.e. playing an ostinato line), and Vlns 1 playing legato melody, ..etc. without having phasing issues, Then again the transposition trick will offer a different flavor that might sound very interesting as well, and for Vlns 2 playing in Unison, or Octaves with Vlns 1.


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if we are looking at the first, or second half of Sept. for the Pacific Strings release. 

What's your guess ?


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> But Con Moto, or Vista only offer legato articulation. What about the other articulations ?


To my ears CSS isn't a bad tonal match. I don't own Vista though, so grain of salt


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> To my ears CSS isn't a bad tonal match. I don't own Vista though, so grain of salt


Interesting. I'm not able to evaluate this option until I have Pacific Strings Installed.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Interesting. I'm not able to evaluate this option until I have Pacific Strings Installed.


How does that make sense 😂


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

"Up to 14 dynamics" - to record a section with that granularity of volume control, for every note / interval, seems nearly impossible. I imagine this is either manipulated dynamics aka 4-5 dynamics stretched out to 14 or round robins for a smaller set of dynamics. That is, I doubt you'll see 14 layers of timbral difference.


----------



## Casiquire

ALittleNightMusic said:


> "Up to 14 dynamics" - to record a section with that granularity of volume control, for every note / interval, seems nearly impossible. I imagine this is either manipulated dynamics aka 4-5 dynamics stretched out to 14 or round robins for a smaller set of dynamics. That is, I doubt you'll see 14 layers of timbral difference.


I also think it's excessive. I feel like four or five are great for strings and I'd rather have ten variations in texture or character than dynamics, but we'll sea how it all works once it lands!

(Lands, get it? Like a shi--wait that's airplanes, you know what never mind I'm going home)


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Casiquire said:


> I also think it's excessive. I feel like four or five are great for strings and I'd rather have ten variations in texture or character than dynamics, but we'll sea how it all works once it lands!
> 
> (Lands, get it? Like a shi--wait that's airplanes, you know what never mind I'm going home)


This forum tends to forgive PS for sins other developers would be burned at the stake for. $1k retail for just strings with no second violins, no staccatos (*gasp*), just a handful of articulations...it's all a bit rich (and amusing).


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

People just really like the sound, I guess. Does there have to be something more to it?

I'd hazard a guess it's also probably not the same people complaining about the lack of 2nd violins in other libraries who are fine with the lack of them here.


----------



## Casiquire

ALittleNightMusic said:


> This forum tends to forgive PS for sins other developers would be burned at the stake for. $1k retail for just strings with no second violins, no staccatos (*gasp*), just a handful of articulations...it's all bit rich (and amusing).


I absolutely agree, but i do take away a different message from it all which is that the market is extremely flexible. Devs can get away with making up their own price as long as the market has room for their product. Jasper has a unique knack for tone and making libraries that, granted, have a narrow sweet spot, but manage to hit that sweet spot under a broad range of circumstances.

Also he seems to have figured out that in these communities, warm beats bright, to the point of near lunacy imo.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Sarah Mancuso said:


> People just really like the sound, I guess. Does there have to be something more to it?
> 
> I'd hazard a guess it's also probably not the same people complaining about the lack of 2nd violins in other libraries who are fine with the lack of them here.


It doesn't have to be more than that...but that threshold doesn't seem to be applied equally to other devs on Vi-C.

And you'd be surprised - the people that have screamed about certain limitations in other libraries are in this thread head over heels, ignoring the same limitations in Pacific.


----------



## Argy Ottas

holywilly said:


> It’s an instant buy if the trailer track is “Polar”.


Correct me if I am wrong, but according to the SoundCloud description, "Polar" uses Pacific Strings but I am not sure if the rest instruments are Pacific too, so it couldn't be in the announcement trailer.


----------



## Kony

ALittleNightMusic said:


> This forum tends to forgive PS for sins other developers would be burned at the stake for


I'd say that's because PS don't make bold statements about their libraries. The expectations are generally derived from demos, and not from wowser marketing.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Kony said:


> I'd say that's because PS don't make bold statements about their libraries. The expectations are generally derived from demos, and not from wowser marketing.


PS is not the only developer in that camp but still seems to skate through the checkpoints applied to those similar "listen to the demos" developers unharmed.

Also, I'd argue claiming "up to 14 dynamics" is a rather bold statement...

Anyway, just an observation.


----------



## Kony

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Also, I'd argue claiming "up to 14 dynamics" is a rather bold statement...


Not really, it's just stating a fact about the samples/recording etc. A bold statement would be saying the library has the most dynamics of any library ever recorded - Jasper doesn't do that, he lets the samples (and libraries) speak for themselves, with a full disclaimer regarding imperfections of the libraries. Which other devs advertise their libraries' limitations?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Kony said:


> Not really, it's just stating a fact about the samples/recording etc. A bold statement would be saying the library has the most dynamics of any library ever recorded - Jasper doesn't do that, he lets the samples (and libraries) speak for themselves, with a full disclaimer regarding imperfections of the libraries. Which other devs advertise their libraries' limitations?


"Facts about samples" - see my post above. I highly doubt the ability to provide 14 timbrally-unique dynamic layers.

By stating 14 dynamics, he is effectively claiming "most dynamics" given it is well known to well-versed sample libraries buyers (which are his audience) that nearly every library has between 2-5 dynamic layers.

Stating some limitations doesn't absolve somebody from the limitations (including ones not stated).


----------



## CT

At the risk of blowing the god damn forum up by saying anything that's remotely wrong in someone's eyes, a couple things....

2nd violins are great but developers have to prioritize and ration session time. The focus might be on greater depth of dynamics or something, and that is worth it in the developer's view to cut separate 2nd recordings. It's frustrating to have to make any concessions as developer or consumer, but without unlimited budgets, it's a reality. In this case I'd rather have more detail in the samples than something which is more simple (however frustrating) to fake.

There are actually a lot of dynamic layers in the library. It's not trickery or clever marketing language. Whether you feel it makes a timbral difference is another matter, but they're there. Also bear in mind that having more is better not just for timbre but also for how smooth the fades can be and an overall less static character.

I'd be less interested in these strings if staccato or other discrete short note types were separate, vague, occasionally useful articulations as in most other string libraries. I think the flexible approach to "playable shorts" here is pretty freeing. If you don't, there are many other choices out there which are open to you. You can't make something be what it is not.

As for some people (hardly all) being less hard on PS... I think it's because there are fewer provocations. Less grandiose language and flowery marketing promises. Maybe even some self-effacing attitude mixed in. I feel like that makes people less inclined to get bent out of shape over what you do. Even so, there are always internet giant slayers out there looking to prove themselves.

Just saying my piece. If you feel inclined to get into a pissy argument with me over any of this, for the sake of the forum, do it privately.


----------



## Kony

ALittleNightMusic said:


> "Facts about samples" - see my post above. I highly doubt the ability to provide 14 timbrally-unique dynamic layers.
> 
> By stating 14 dynamics, he is effectively claiming "most dynamics" given it is well known to well-versed sample libraries buyers (which are his audience) that nearly every library has between 2-5 dynamic layers.
> 
> Stating some limitations doesn't absolve somebody from the limitations (including ones not stated).


No offence, but you are inferring a boast from a statement of fact. Whether that is implied or not is irrelevant - the point remains that Jasper didn't say it's the most of any dev, and the general point remains about earlier PS releases that they don't rely on the fanfare which other devs do.

We'll have to agree to differ on the statement of limitations.


----------



## jbuhler

Kony said:


> Not really, it's just stating a fact about the samples/recording etc. A bold statement would be saying the library has the most dynamics of any library ever recorded - Jasper doesn't do that, he lets the samples (and libraries) speak for themselves, with a full disclaimer regarding imperfections of the libraries. Which other devs advertise their libraries' limitations?


He tells you that his samples won’t work on your system and don’t expect any support. Which at one level is fine, but it’s weird that some people seem to not just be ok with it but see it as model behavior for a responsive developer.


----------



## Kony

jbuhler said:


> He tells you that his samples won’t work on your system and don’t expect any support. Which at one level is fine, but it’s weird that some people seem to not just be ok with it but see it as model behavior for a responsive developer.


I'm talking about the detail he provides about limitations - such as.


----------



## jbuhler

Kony said:


> I'm talking about the detail he provides about limitations - such as.


And I’m talking about his basic messaging that customers are hell. I don’t doubt that he’s correct about that—that many customers are hell—but I’m surprised that so many are willing to give him a pass on it.


----------



## Getsumen

ALittleNightMusic said:


> "Up to 14 dynamics" - to record a section with that granularity of volume control, for every note / interval, seems nearly impossible. I imagine this is either manipulated dynamics aka 4-5 dynamics stretched out to 14 or round robins for a smaller set of dynamics. That is, I doubt you'll see 14 layers of timbral difference.


I agree that 14 is excessive.
It seems that the majority of the dynamic layers are focused on the quiet layers.

From the Soundcloud demo:

so if we assume each "p" and each "f" is a layer we have at least 10 layers for this patch.
Tbh I don't know if I can really tell the difference. It is a very nice crossfade though I will say


Edit: I'm blind and didn't see the 11 in the title. I guess there are two mf layers


----------



## Kony

jbuhler said:


> And I’m talking about his basic messaging that customers are hell. I don’t doubt that he’s correct about that—that many customers are hell—but I’m surprised that so many are willing to give him a pass on it.


It's interesting that these PS "limitations" critiques - or "customers are hell" statements - keep appearing in PS threads by people who seemingly have no intention of purchasing a PS library.

The "customers are hell" point has been addressed a number of times on this forum - that being Jasper is a one-man show and can't provide that level of support.

Having said that, Jasper doesn't say he won't provide support. The EULA simply states that PS is not obligated to provide support, and one assumes that would be there to ensure he doesn't waste time with novices who haven't read the FAQs section of the PS site, which also covers most issues fairly comprehensively.





__





FAQs | Contact – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## Casiquire

First, there's only one popular dev who actually makes grandiose claims and they have a pretty firm following here. Not naming any names. Outside of them, *everyone* just makes factual statements. In fact saying "the most dynamic layers" would also be a factual statement, not a grandiose claim, so I'm not sure why we're so focused on something that isn't very common anyway. Moving on, outside of that, not offering support is very much a genuine criticism that nobody else would be able to get away with. Though when i make a library of my own I'm sure going to try.

Whether someone has interest in purchasing the product doesn't negate the opinion. In fact the opinions stated may be the exact reasons *why* someone doesn't own the product.

Anyway i think the products do sound fantastic, but cost way too much for what you get and absolutely do get away with a lot of things i don't want to see normalized.


----------



## holywilly

Argy Ottas said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but according to the SoundCloud description, "Polar" uses Pacific Strings but I am not sure if the rest instruments are Pacific too, so it couldn't be in the announcement trailer.


The spiccato sounds full of juice, that’s why I’m sold.


----------



## CT

Casiquire said:


> First, there's only one popular dev who actually makes grandiose claims and they have a pretty firm following here. Not naming any names. Outside of them, *everyone* just makes factual statements.


Oh I don't agree with this at all. Spitfire might be everyone's favorite joke-butt but every major developer absolutely indulges in word-salad marketing copy. I don't even think Spitfire is the worst offender. It's not something which really figures into my opinions either way though.


----------



## jbuhler

Kony said:


> It's interesting is that these PS "limitations" critiques - or "customers are hell" statements - keep appearing in PS threads by people who seemingly have no intention of purchasing a PS library.
> 
> The "customers are hell" point has been addressed a number of times on this forum - that being Jasper is a one-man show and can't provide that level of support.


And you have no idea whether I own his libraries or not. And in fact I own several.

Other one-man shows have no difficulty promising decent customer support, so stating he can’t is really just admitting he can’t be bothered. Again that’s fine and if you own his libraries you know it going in. But to defend it like you just did—it’s peculiar.


----------



## Kony

Casiquire said:


> Anyway i think the products do sound fantastic, but cost way too much for what you get and absolutely do get away with a lot of things i don't want to see normalized.


So you won't be buying Pacific then?


----------



## Kony

jbuhler said:


> And you have no idea whether I own his libraries or not. And I fact I own several.


That's great - and are you here because you're going to keep buying PS libraries?


----------



## CT

Kony said:


> Having said that, Jasper doesn't say he won't provide support. The EULA simply states that PS is not obligated to provide support, and one assumes that would be there to ensure he doesn't waste time with novices who haven't read the FAQs section of the PS site, which also covers most issues fairly comprehensively.


This is what it comes down to. I'm certain that if you sent a genuine support request you'd not be told to go to hell. But he's trying to account for the fact that he won't/can't engage in support to the extent that larger developers will/can. I'm willing to believe there are people out there who would be inclined to get litigious over that if he left an opening for it.

I'm much more skeptical of developers who have no such disclaimers, but end up offering very poor support, or who are totally unresponsive. That's something which is rightfully decried on here.


----------



## Casiquire

Kony said:


> So you won't be buying Pacific then?


I'm more curious about Voyage.


----------



## jbuhler

Kony said:


> That's great - and are you here because you're going to keep buying PS libraries?


Yes, I’d hardly be on this thread if I wasn’t interested in his libraries. But I’m also quite happy that most developers don’t operate like Jasper.


----------



## Casiquire

Mike T said:


> Oh I don't agree with this at all. Spitfire might be everyone's favorite joke-butt but every major developer absolutely indulges in word-salad marketing copy. I don't even think Spitfire is the worst offender. It's not something which really figures into my opinions either way though.


Might depend on definitions. I'm not bothered by libraries calling themselves majestic or larger than life if that's how they're describing the sound itself. I'm not even bothered by "power legato" because it's actually attempting to describe the exaggerated transitions offered. I'm more bothered by pronouncements like "game changer" or something similar, especially when it's so often followed by something perfectly ordinary. I see that far, far more rarely and that's what I think of when i hear "grandiose claims"


----------



## Kony

jbuhler said:


> But I’m also quite happy that most developers don’t operate like Jasper.


I'd prefer if most devs did operate like Jasper.


----------



## Kony

Casiquire said:


> I'm more curious about Voyage.


Same here.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike T said:


> This is what it comes down to. I'm certain that if you sent a genuine support request you'd not be told to go to hell. But he's trying to account for the fact that he won't/can't engage in support to the extent that larger developers will/can. I'm willing to believe there are people out there who would be inclined to get litigious over that if he left an opening for it.
> 
> I'm much more skeptical of developers who have no such disclaimers, but end up offering very poor support, or who are totally unresponsive. That's something which is rightfully decried on here.


The thing is you just don’t know. Nor do you know how long he might “support” a product. He seems to relish killing off his old libraries. Likely you can get support so long as Jasper is interested in fixing your problem. And you are beta testing for him so he very much has an interest in fixing your issues. But buying his expensive libraries is more of a gamble than similarly priced libraries from other developers, because his stated policy on support. 

And I’ll reiterate here that he’s free to run his company any way he wants and folks are certainly free to buy his products and praise them. The only thing I’m questioning is holding him up as some kind of model responsive instrument developer. Few other developers could get away with it. You can argue that has to do with the quality of the instruments he produces and I wouldn’t disagree. And I can celebrate the result without condoning the rest.


----------



## jbuhler

Kony said:


> I'd prefer if most devs did operate like Jasper.


I’m quite sure you do.


----------



## Kony

jbuhler said:


> I’m quite sure you do.


Okay, so what I mean by that is that Jasper is transparent about library limitations with very specific details about said limitations. Which other developer does that?


----------



## CT

jbuhler said:


> The only thing I’m questioning is holding him up as some kind of model responsive instrument developer.


That's fair enough, though I honestly didn't see anyone saying that, and would be surprised if anyone did, given that the policy obviously implies the possibility of anything but unconditional, paradigm responsiveness.

It's also telling that the complaints about his support policy, as far as I've ever seen, seem to be only about the policy itself, and not about how it actually ends up working in practice with customers looking for reasonable support. And given the transparent documentation about potential issues with these libraries that he provides, I'd actually put PS at a generally lower gamble-level than most other developers, who are absolutely not going out of their way to let you know what might be quirky about their latest product.


----------



## Argy Ottas

As I mentioned previously, I was about to buy either Vista or Pacific.
After the massive loyal discount though, Pacific is a more realistic goal regarding my budget, than before.
But.
That's something that keeps me back from buying Pacific instead of Vista...





I love the more chamber yet massive, detailed sound that Vista offers. But, on the other hand, I lose all the articulations and the symphonic sound coming with Pacific.

I only wish someone could assure me, that a similar to Vista sound could be achieved, by tweaking the close mics on Pacific.

Some of you can say, just buy both, but this is something that would exceed my budget at this time. 

PS. I am a proud Con Moto owner and I also have the Vista freebie which combined with CM is a DREAM, making my decision even harder.

Testers and demo writers, your help.


----------



## Sovereign

Argy Ottas said:


> Some of you can say, just buy both, but this is something that would exceed my budget at this time.


You're making this too difficult IMO. The loyalty pricing is only for a limited amount of time. You can always still purchase Vista at a good discount later on.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Sovereign said:


> You're making this too difficult IMO. The loyalty pricing is only for a limited amount of time. You can always still purchase Vista at a good discount later on.


Ι am building my new "sample arsenal" lately and I am overexcited  Sorry for that


----------



## Casiquire

Argy Ottas said:


> Ι building my new "sample arsenal" lately and I am overexcited  Sorry for that


It's a tricky spot. I agree about the sound and that's why I'm less interested in Pacific. Vista just sounds better and i wonder if Voyage will too


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> It's a tricky spot. I agree about the sound and that's why I'm less interested in Pacific. Vista just sounds better and i wonder if Voyage will too


There are quite a few soundcloud demos of alpha versions of Voyage Strings, and they sound wonderful. at the Performance Samples Website.

I also noticed that quite a few of the Voyage strings demos are Sordino Strings.

Oh..Just checked, and Pacific has sordino strings as well.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

muziksculp said:


> There are quite a few soundcloud demos of alpha versions of Voyage Strings, and they sound wonderful. at the Performance Samples Website.
> 
> I also noticed that quite a few of the Voyage strings demos are Sordino Strings.
> 
> Does Pacific have Sordino as well ?
> 
> I'm also wondering if Voyage will have a proper second violins ? or not bother including them, just like Pacific.


As of this moment, there are no 2nd Violins for voyage as well, but as Jasper says, it is subject to change. And pacific does have Sordinos, but no legato for them, just sustains I gather.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> There are quite a few soundcloud demos of alpha versions of Voyage Strings, and they sound wonderful. at the Performance Samples Website.
> 
> I also noticed that quite a few of the Voyage strings demos are Sordino Strings.
> 
> Does Pacific have Sordino as well ?
> 
> I'm also wondering if Voyage will have a proper second violins ? or not bother including them, just like Pacific.


I haven't found most of the Voyage examples too illuminating yet. Some scattered shorts and a ton of sordinos


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> I haven't found most of the Voyage examples too illuminating yet. Some scattered shorts and a ton of sordinos


Yes, I agree, too early to judge.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Casiquire said:


> I haven't found most of the Voyage examples too illuminating yet. Some scattered shorts and a ton of sordinos











Voyage Str + ABP-Soloists + AWP - 45m Speedwrite (no verb/eq) - By Jasper Blunk


Note: No external reverb, EQ, or processing was used on this example, aside from panning the close mics. Featuring a pre-alpha version of AWP (Angry Woodwinds Pro), Angry Brass Pro - Soloists, and Voy




soundcloud.app.goo.gl





There is a demo combined with the angry brass soloists library where you can hear the voyage Violins legato for a few seconds. Pretty similar to Vista to my ears. But on the other hand, voyage is a long way off, so many things can be changed and added. We just don't know yet.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

I trust Jasper with everything he does. He is obsessed with his work, and I love his libraries so much for their playability and tone. He nails it with every new library he puts out. his Libraries always find their way into my music, whether they are by themselves or layered...really love his work.


----------



## muziksculp

I love this romantic legato demo of Pre-Alpha version of Pacific Strings. I wonder how much it has improved at this point of the development.


----------



## ism

Niv Schrieber said:


> He nails it with every new library he puts out.


I'd texture this to say that he nails the very carefully chosen niches that he set to server, and in precisely the very "not for purists" manor he sets out.

The whole concept behind what he does is to push sampling forward on these very narrow frontiers.

And the result are wonderful. Perhaps the learnings and the way he lifts the bar at these bleeding edges of sampling will seep back into mainstream sampling.

But at the same time, they are unequivocally not bread and butter libraries (except maybe for a tiny minority who aesthetically live exclusively on these very hyper focused expressive niches).

Vista, for instance, is sublimely beautiful for what it does. And it is a joy to have it in my palette. But it would bet a terrible first, "bread and butter" library for almost everyone.

If all sample companies were like PS, there would, I predict, be much wailing and gnashing of teeth over the limitations of PS libraries and how this hyper-focus of a handful of sweet spots, however gorgeous, leaves so many gaping holes in other parts of the palette.

But all sample companies aren't like PS. And PS exists to aim for, and largely hit, a lovely set of bleeding edge, highly niche set of hyper-focused sweet spots, on both technical and artistical levels.

A world with PS + other sample makers that aren't ultra niche sweet spot hyper-focused = joy.

A world with PS + only other ultra niche sweet spot hyper-focused sample makers = wailing and gnashing of teeth.


----------



## chapbot

ALittleNightMusic said:


> This forum tends to forgive PS for sins other developers would be burned at the stake for. $1k retail for just strings with no second violins, no staccatos (*gasp*), just a handful of articulations...it's all a bit rich (and amusing).


That's probably because many other developers are douchebags and Jasper is a nice guy.


----------



## chapbot

jbuhler said:


> And I’ll reiterate here that he’s free to run his company any way he wants and folks are certainly free to buy his products and praise them. The only thing I’m questioning is holding him up as some kind of model responsive instrument developer. Few other developers could get away with it. You can argue that has to do with the quality of the instruments he produces and I wouldn’t disagree. And I can celebrate the result without condoning the rest.



How benevolent of you.

I'd like to mention that in the wake of the abysmal dealings with the public we have seen from sonokinetic and cinesamples I would hold Jasper in regard as he's regularly giving updates on the libraries and not leaving people hanging.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

chapbot said:


> That's probably because many other developers are douchebags and Jasper is a nice guy.


Right...and which developers are douchebags?


----------



## Jdiggity1

<moderation>
Can we not go down this road please.
</moderation>

The thing that I find most appealing about Performance Samples, is the amount of testing and experimentation gone into the sampling and development processes.
Jasper is a fantastic composer and a highly skilled sampler at a creative and technical level.
He doesn't just decide that the market needs another string library, and then follows the usual formula..
He uses his years of experimentation - both successes and failures - to see how he can push the envelope just a little bit further and offer something unique.
This is what intrigues me about the "excessive" dynamics, because I know that he's not doing it as a gimmick like the "12000+ lines of code!" developers. It's a result of tests, and something about it gets Jasper's tick of approval.
As with all sample libraries though, the specs written down on page shouldn't even be half the story. Two libraries identical in specifications can play wildly differently to each other, thanks to the programming techniques implemented under the hood that don't get mentioned in a product description.

Pacific Strings might not look exciting by itself to some, but the fact that it's part of a whole new series including brass, woodwinds, and percussion, is another way of potentially elevating it above standalone string libraries.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Jdiggity1 said:


> The thing that I find most appealing about Performance Samples, is the amount of testing and experimentation gone into the sampling and development processes.
> Jasper is a fantastic composer and a highly skilled sampler at a creative and technical level.
> He doesn't just decide that the market needs another string library, and then follows the usual formula..
> He uses his years of experimentation - both successes and failures - to see how he can push the envelope just a little bit further and offer something unique.


To be fair, we could say the same thing about many other developers. This trait is not unique to Jasper or PS. To claim that would be a huge disservice to other companies. The reason why sample libraries are where they are today is thanks to all of these developers pushing the boundaries and trying to bring something different and unique to the table, which then resets the bar for other folks. I imagine if PS is able to pull off something truly unique and valuable, it too should reset the bar for other folks. However, similarly, there is a bar that has been set by other developers that PS should potentially be held to as well (or maybe not - this is where our definitions of value can differ).


----------



## Jdiggity1

ALittleNightMusic said:


> To be fair, we could say the same thing about many other developers. This trait is not unique to Jasper or PS. To claim that would be a huge disservice to other companies. The reason why sample libraries are where they are today is thanks to all of these developers pushing the boundaries and trying to bring something different and unique to the table, which then resets the bar for other folks. I imagine if PS is able to pull off something truly unique and valuable, it too should reset the bar for other folks. However, similarly, there is a bar that has been set by other developers that PS should potentially be held to as well (or maybe not - this is where our definitions of value can differ).


Innovation is certainly not unique to PS, correct. But it is a factor that can instill confidence in me personally, and is something that has been consistent throughout the history of Jasper's product line-up.
Whether it was the angry brass freebie, the first con moto, his solo violins, perfperc, Caspian, Oceania, fluid shorts.... they've either brought a unique sampling technique to the forefront, or a musical performance in the recordings that makes a discernable difference to the end product. 
So much so, that at least two OTHER developers have since used Jasper for his skillset and methods in order to enhance their own products.

As great as every other developer is, not all of them have the same track record when it comes to attempting to advance the methodologies behind the sampling or *performance/playability *aspects of the instruments. (He even wrote blog posts and shared video-casts about them, possibly to inspire others to try it themselves?)
Other developers _do_ innovate in other ways though!
And to clarify, this is not trying to say PS is better than every one else. I don't want or expect other developers to follow their lead in any way. Each will do what they do best, which is always better than trying to do what somebody else does better.

Personally, I don't think any developer should be held to a standard, as I don't really see 'a' standard, as such. They each set their own, in a way.
Their strengths and weaknesses lie in different aspects, and that should be what steers our evaluation of them, and will determine whether we care about their next release or not.


----------



## jazzman7

We on VI Control tend to be a sometimes unruly mob of Standard Setters ourselves. We vote pretty decisively with our pocketbooks. I've been grateful to a part of this community and have learned an awful lot. From the arguments as well as the agreements. There are some big upcoming decisions with all the Killer Strings coming out around the same time. 

I have Vista and Con Moto and all I can say is Pacific Sounds amazing...but....I will be watching all the reactions like a hawk to be sure! Limited time Loyalty pricing...whoo boy..... that is genius, but tough marketing from what I've experienced. Hundreds at stake, clock ticking... There's no doubt it is, and will be, gorgeous Tho.


----------



## Halfstar

I'd be willing to wait if Jasper was to attempt to make Pacific Brass and Pacific Woodwinds with the same level of care and detail as it seems he has with Pacific Strings. There's some excellent brass/woodwind libraries out there, but Jasper's libraries just seem to have that extra level of realism and sound as if they are actually being PERFORMED when I listen back to what I've done in my daw. The SPIRIT behind the notes just seems to be there as opposed to other libraries in which all the notes are there but the spirit is kind of missing somehow. I know Jasper doesn't intend on spending as much time on the rest of the library but I hope he changes his mind. I'd be willing to wait to hear him pour his talent into the whole thing!


----------



## axb312

Does anyone have any info on what the pacific brass, woodwind and percussion sections will consist of? Think this was posted somewhere but can't seem to find it now...


----------



## Halfstar

axb312 said:


> Does anyone have any info on what the pacific brass, woodwind and percussion sections will consist of? Think this was posted somewhere but can't seem to find it now...


From memory, there was a really informative Q and A with Jasper in this thread somewhere in which Jasper mentions he'll be recording a full orchestra but that the brass and woodwinds wouldn't be as in-depth as the strings. If that's the case, I hope someone could encourage him otherwise. If he does this library thoroughly from top to bottom (as well as Voyage) and just releases future updates or later additions (such as 2nd violins as an add-on if enough people requested it), he wouldn't necessarily need to keep releasing new string/brass libraries as Voyage and Pacific would serve as his two ultimate flagships for him to keep building upon. He's just so close to being able to do something really amazing if he wants to and damn it, I'd love it if he went the whole way.


----------



## SwordComposer

axb312 said:


> Does anyone have any info on what the pacific brass, woodwind and percussion sections will consist of? Think this was posted somewhere but can't seem to find it now...


From talking with Jasper on discord, when I asked if Pacific brass would have legato, he said the brass and woodwinds wouldn't be as in depth as the strings, and that there's currently no legato for the brass (Voyage brass is a different story). I assume this means there's no legato for either, and from the examples of pacific brass I've heard so far, they appear to be staccato+marcato playable instruments in the same vein as AB and Caspian, but with several dynamic layers rather than one FFF layer, and possibly with some other articulations.

It's always possible he will record more material though, seeing as he just recorded some harp 2 days ago for Pacific.

He posted a dropbox link to a short demo of the Pacific trumpets but it seems to have been deleted. Needless to say, they were very loud haha.


----------



## artinro

Folks, I spoke to Jasper earlier today. Just a few updates for everyone:

Strings: all recorded and release-ready minus legato finesse. As some of you saw, he recorded a harp as well (normale + flageolet) the other day which he's going to be adding to the 1.0 release.

Perc (details at https://www.performancesamples.com/pacificpercussion/). All recorded, all editing done and in programming/patch building now. 

Winds: All recorded. In editing. Solo piccolo, a2 clarinets, a2 oboes, a2 flutes, a2 bassoons. Multiple dynamics (none of that FFF-only stuff). Trills, flutter tongue, and "playable/integrated" sustain/short patches in the style of Angry Brass Pro Soloists or AWP (Caspian was just one release speed). The ww builds he has right now are 4 release speeds including super fast, and with RR. He recorded legato for the clarinets/flutes, and for the flutes it was RR legato. 

Brass: In early editing. Almost all recorded, but he's going to re-record an entire section and a final section. Final library should be (all a2) tubas, tenor bones, bass bones, contrabass bones, horns, and trumpets. The a2 sounds like sections here but seems to handle chords better. The horns in particular were remarkable players and sound like a bigger section than a2. Again - multiple dynamics. Articulation wise no mutes or trills here like Voyage, but it's essentially ABP-Soloists in terms of functionality (multiple release speeds and release RR), but with multiple dynamics. It's the Caspian room. So Caspian meets ABP-Soloists, but multi-dyn and also flutter tongues included. 

And a another note from Jasper:

"A note re: perc/ww/brass. Originally Pacific was just strings - I wanted to do a "full" string library with a pretty comprehensive, yet bread-&-butter set of articulations. I also wanted to do CM2, but decided to combine them in a way (in the CM hall). After Pacific Strings picked up steam I decided to fill out the rest of the sections. Even though the articulation lists aren't super comprehensive, there's a ton of finesse on these three projects. Obviously it's not full-on legato and mutes for everything, but I certainly wasn't interested in doing some barebones, primitive FFF-only overlay library. Although a bigger project could have been great, I'm a micro-operation and squeezing the most I can out of very limited resources. I'm way, way into the red between Pacific and Voyage, and can't do further large recordings unless Pacific does really well. Though if they do, there's more in the books in terms of the Pacific room/config."


----------



## Getsumen

artinro said:


> Folks, I spoke to Jasper earlier today. Just a few updates for everyone:
> 
> Strings: all recorded and release-ready minus legato finesse. As some of you saw, he recorded a harp as well (normale + flageolet) the other day which he's going to be adding to the 1.0 release.
> 
> Perc (details at https://www.performancesamples.com/pacificpercussion/). All recorded, all editing done and in programming/patch building now.
> 
> Winds: All recorded. In editing. Solo piccolo, a2 clarinets, a2 oboes, a2 flutes, a2 bassoons. Multiple dynamics (none of that FFF-only stuff). Trills, flutter tongue, and "playable/integrated" sustain/short patches in the style of Angry Brass Pro Soloists or AWP (Caspian was just one release speed). The ww builds he has right now are 4 release speeds including super fast, and with RR. He recorded legato for the clarinets/flutes, and for the flutes it was RR legato.
> 
> Brass: In early editing. Almost all recorded, but he's going to re-record an entire section and a final section. Final library should be (all a2) tubas, tenor bones, bass bones, contrabass bones, horns, and trumpets. The a2 sounds like sections here but seems to handle chords better. The horns in particular were remarkable players and sound like a bigger section than a2. Again - multiple dynamics. Articulation wise no mutes or trills here like Voyage, but it's essentially ABP-Soloists in terms of functionality (multiple release speeds and release RR), but with multiple dynamics. It's the Caspian room. So Caspian meets ABP-Soloists, but multi-dyn and also flutter tongues included.
> 
> And a another note from Jasper:
> 
> "A note re: perc/ww/brass. Originally Pacific was just strings - I wanted to do a "full" string library with a pretty comprehensive, yet bread-&-butter set of articulations. I also wanted to do CM2, but decided to combine them in a way (in the CM hall). After Pacific Strings picked up steam I decided to fill out the rest of the sections. Even though the articulation lists aren't super comprehensive, there's a ton of finesse on these three projects. Obviously it's not full-on legato and mutes for everything, but I certainly wasn't interested in doing some barebones, primitive FFF-only overlay library. Although a bigger project could have been great, I'm a micro-operation and squeezing the most I can out of very limited resources. I'm way, way into the red between Pacific and Voyage, and can't do further large recordings unless Pacific does really well. Though if they do, there's more in the books in terms of the Pacific room/config."


Wow that's all pretty good news. 

Also the part about him being way in the red doesn't surprise me. It amazes me that he's working on 3+ ambitious projects at the same time right now. Hopfully everything works out well


----------



## Zanshin

I might be more excited for the Winds and Brass than the strings if that’s possible. I love ABP soloists and AWP.

Anyway, ty for the update, exciting!!


----------



## gst98

artinro said:


> Folks, I spoke to Jasper earlier today. Just a few updates for everyone:
> 
> Strings: all recorded and release-ready minus legato finesse. As some of you saw, he recorded a harp as well (normale + flageolet) the other day which he's going to be adding to the 1.0 release.
> 
> Perc (details at https://www.performancesamples.com/pacificpercussion/). All recorded, all editing done and in programming/patch building now.
> 
> Winds: All recorded. In editing. Solo piccolo, a2 clarinets, a2 oboes, a2 flutes, a2 bassoons. Multiple dynamics (none of that FFF-only stuff). Trills, flutter tongue, and "playable/integrated" sustain/short patches in the style of Angry Brass Pro Soloists or AWP (Caspian was just one release speed). The ww builds he has right now are 4 release speeds including super fast, and with RR. He recorded legato for the clarinets/flutes, and for the flutes it was RR legato.
> 
> Brass: In early editing. Almost all recorded, but he's going to re-record an entire section and a final section. Final library should be (all a2) tubas, tenor bones, bass bones, contrabass bones, horns, and trumpets. The a2 sounds like sections here but seems to handle chords better. The horns in particular were remarkable players and sound like a bigger section than a2. Again - multiple dynamics. Articulation wise no mutes or trills here like Voyage, but it's essentially ABP-Soloists in terms of functionality (multiple release speeds and release RR), but with multiple dynamics. It's the Caspian room. So Caspian meets ABP-Soloists, but multi-dyn and also flutter tongues included.
> 
> And a another note from Jasper:
> 
> "A note re: perc/ww/brass. Originally Pacific was just strings - I wanted to do a "full" string library with a pretty comprehensive, yet bread-&-butter set of articulations. I also wanted to do CM2, but decided to combine them in a way (in the CM hall). After Pacific Strings picked up steam I decided to fill out the rest of the sections. Even though the articulation lists aren't super comprehensive, there's a ton of finesse on these three projects. Obviously it's not full-on legato and mutes for everything, but I certainly wasn't interested in doing some barebones, primitive FFF-only overlay library. Although a bigger project could have been great, I'm a micro-operation and squeezing the most I can out of very limited resources. I'm way, way into the red between Pacific and Voyage, and can't do further large recordings unless Pacific does really well. Though if they do, there's more in the books in terms of the Pacific room/config."


Do you think there will be any chance of getting the shorts and sustains as individual patches for further flexibility?


----------



## Paul Jelfs

P.S are obviously excellent at making Bespoke, Hi-end Sample Libraries. I think most of us can agree on that, even if some do not feel they are what they themselves would want. 

However, I do hope with this library there are more videos both demonstrating the sound, and a walkthrough, as I think where P.S. struggles sometimes is its marketing / Customer interaction. 

That is not a criticism, I just really think it helps when developers put out really good Tutorials or walkthroughs for their libraries - Granted in the past, most of P.S. libraries did not need a walkthrough, but it still helps with awareness of the product, and drum up interest and Talk. 

So personally, I hope we see some really good videos both showing off the sounds and the features of this premium library, as it comes closer to release. 

As there is a lot of articulations, Is Jasper going for a more traditional K.S. approach here, or will there still be those "In in 1 Performance patches" P.S and Musical Sampling do really well ? 

Also extremely good Intro Price if it lives up to expectations. I think a really good walkthrough / demo of what the library is capable of is now EVEN MORE important. 

Lastly, any guesses at the kind of size in GB this library might be ? P.S. libraries are usually very compact, but 14 Dynamics is ALOT.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Paul Jelfs said:


> P.S are obviously excellent at making Bespoke, Hi-end Sample Libraries. I think most of us can agree on that, even if some do not feel they are what they themselves would want.
> 
> However, I do hope with this library there are more videos both demonstrating the sound, and a walkthrough, as I think where P.S. struggles sometimes is its marketing / Customer interaction.
> 
> That is not a criticism, I just really think it helps when developers put out really good Tutorials or walkthroughs for their libraries - Granted in the past, most of P.S. libraries did not need a walkthrough, but it still helps with awareness of the product, and drum up interest and Talk.
> 
> So personally, I hope we see some really good videos both showing off the sounds and the features of this premium library, as it comes closer to release.
> 
> As there is a lot of articulations, Is Jasper going for a more traditional K.S. approach here, or will there still be those "In in 1 Performance patches" P.S and Musical Sampling do really well ?
> 
> Also extremely good Intro Price if it lives up to expectations. I think a really good walkthrough / demo of what the library is capable of is now EVEN MORE important.
> 
> Lastly, any guesses at the kind of size in GB this library might be ? P.S. libraries are usually very compact, but 14 Dynamics is ALOT.


You sound like the anti-vaccinists, who need marketing and communication tricks to be convinced! Lol ... just kidding!


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Argy Ottas said:


> You sound like the anti-vaccinists, who need marketing and communication tricks to be convinced! Lol ... just kidding!


Haha ! I don't think the anti Vaccinists would be convinced REGARDLESS of what you show them ! 
But I meant more for Performance Sampling rather than me personally - Jasper mentioned how much money he has spent to record this latest venture, I think the product deserves some very good marketing and walkthroughs to go with the product  

I think we all can forget how Niche our industry really , and yet the costs are still huge for the sample makers.


----------



## Vlzmusic

I think Jasper provides some of the best naked demos in the biz. They tend to reflect the progress as the instruments develop, and have that "improvised" vibe to them you can't help but sympathize with.


----------



## Sovereign

Waiting, impatiently...


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Sovereign said:


> Waiting, impatiently...


Should be any day now...excited!


----------



## Soundbed

Is it now yet?


----------



## Soundbed

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> You’re not related to @muziksculp by any chance, are you? 😀


Who?


----------



## chapbot

Sovereign said:


> Waiting, impatiently...


I think it's mid/late Sept.


----------



## Halfstar

Time to place some bets. I say September 27.


----------



## Futchibon

Apologies if this has already been posted, but I'm sure peeps won't mind hearing it again:


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Each time I get a notification from this thread my heart skips a beat 🥲


----------



## Evans

Niv Schrieber said:


> Each time I get a notification from this thread my heart skips a beat 🥲


You should get that checked out.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Evans said:


> You should get that checked out.


There's no use for that since the doctor can't have control of my wallet.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Niv Schrieber said:


> Each time I get a notification from this thread my heart skips a beat 🥲


Man, I love your childish anticipation! Shhh... Santa Jasper is coming soon...!


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Argy Ottas said:


> Man, I love your childish anticipation! Shhh... Santa Jasper is coming soon...!


I feel so lucky that I've been a really good boy this year.


----------



## Casiquire

Argy Ottas said:


> Man, I love your childish anticipation! Shhh... Santa Jasper is coming soon...!


Santa Jasper? As in, it'll be December?! Haha


----------



## Argy Ottas

Casiquire said:


> Santa Jasper? As in, it'll be December?! Haha


Well.... I mean.... the whole "Pacific package" gift!


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Apologies if this has already been posted, but I'm sure peeps won't mind hearing it again:



Hi @Futchibon ,

Thanks for posting this demo.  

Great sounding Pacific Sordino Strings. I didn't hear this one before. 

Looking forward to Pacific Strings release this month.


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Futchibon ,
> 
> Thanks for posting this demo.
> 
> Great sounding Pacific Sordino Strings. I didn't hear this one before.
> 
> Looking forward to Pacific Strings release this month.


Yeah I hadn't heard it either, can't wait to hear more when Pacific drops!


----------



## Zanshin




----------



## handz

Zanshin said:


>



This sounds A MA ZING!


----------



## Argy Ottas




----------



## holywilly

Argy Ottas said:


>



This is pure evil


----------



## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


>



Love the acoustics !


----------



## Niv Schrieber

muziksculp said:


> Love the acoustics !


I agree, just listened on my headphones, beautiful acoustics and ambience!


----------



## muziksculp

Yes, the acoustics of the hall of Pacific is one of the strengths of Pacific Orchestra. Very rich acoustics, yet very musically pleasing, and transparent tails. Great for lush/epic orchestrations.


----------



## Casiquire

Agreed! It almost has the richness of a church but doesn't get in the way.


----------



## Futchibon

Looking forward to the 

*Whisper Sustains (soft quasi-harmonic/sul tasto sound with multiple dynamics)*


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> Agreed! It almost has the richness of a church but doesn't get in the way.


Exactly. 

When strings play in a hall/stage with wonderful, and very transparent acoustics, the resulting sound is magical. 

No reverb, or other dsp treatments can equal that. Given a few mic options, we can balance it to taste. 

The space I hear Pacific Strings playing in, has that beautiful acoustics that will makes these strings sound amazing, especially since we are talking about the Symphonic size strings of Pacific.


----------



## muziksculp

I also noticed Pacific Strings doesn't have Legato-Sordino , only Sustain-Sordino. Oh well. nothing is perfect.


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> I also noticed Pacific Strings doesn't have Legato-Sordino , only Sustain-Sordino. Oh well. nothing is perfect.


I was looking at the Syncronized Chamber Srings Sordino, which has legato, to complement the Sustain-Sordino of Pacific? It's on sale atm.


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> I was looking at the Syncronized Chamber Srings Sordino, which has legato, to complement the Sustain-Sordino of Pacific? It's on sale atm.


I listened to the Synchronized Chamber Strings Sordino demos, chamber sized, will not work well for symphonic sized Pacific, I also checked Synchronized Appssionata Strings, which are a larger ensemble, sadly, I didn't like the way either one of these sordino libraries sounded.


----------



## Futchibon

*LOUD ACTION TOOLKITS – COMPLETE BUNDLE*​*
$249 BUNDLE INTRO SALE (REG. $399 FOR THE FULL BUNDLE. $517 IF ALL PRODUCTS BOUGHT SEPARATELY AT FULL PRICE). BUNDLE INTRO ENDS SEPTEMBER 17TH.*

https://www.performancesamples.com/loudactiontoolkits-complete-bundle/


----------



## Argy Ottas

Futchibon said:


> *LOUD ACTION TOOLKITS – COMPLETE BUNDLE*​
> *$249 BUNDLE INTRO SALE (REG. $399 FOR THE FULL BUNDLE. $517 IF ALL PRODUCTS BOUGHT SEPARATELY AT FULL PRICE). BUNDLE INTRO ENDS SEPTEMBER 17TH.*
> 
> https://www.performancesamples.com/loudactiontoolkits-complete-bundle/


First... 

Thread 'Loud Action Toolkits Bundle Intro Sale (Performance Samples)' https://vi-control.net/community/th...bundle-intro-sale-performance-samples.114387/


----------



## Futchibon

Argy Ottas said:


> First...
> 
> Thread 'Loud Action Toolkits Bundle Intro Sale (Performance Samples)' https://vi-control.net/community/th...bundle-intro-sale-performance-samples.114387/


Beat me to it!


----------



## Argy Ottas

Wasn't my dilemma of "Pacific Strings or Vista" enough, now I have the "angry" bundle too... I am Angry ARGY Pro at the moment...


----------



## muziksculp

I'm guessing Pacific will be released on my Birthday this month. 

It would be the perfect gift to myself.


----------



## MaxOctane

Whoa. I hadn't seen these Angry brass+WW before.

What a demo here!


----------



## Zanshin

MaxOctane said:


> Whoa. I hadn't seen these Angry brass+WW before.



I really like them, they are fun to play. I have the Angry Brass Pro – Soloists, and Angry Woodwinds Pro. I use them mostly as overlays and augmentation. 

I am peeved there is no bundle complete offer, but I guess that was the same with the Con Moto bundle. Par for the course lol (crying). For not-early-adopters though... $249 is a great deal!

I'm so excited for Pacific... Like xmas morning excited haha.


----------



## Henning

Argy Ottas said:


> Wasn't my dilemma of "Pacific Strings or Vista" enough, now I have the "angry" bundle too... I am Angry ARGY Pro at the moment...


Well, you know you can surive on water and old bread for a few weeks, right?


----------



## Zanshin

The winning option is Pacific AND Vista for just $139 over Pacific alone with loyalty intro ...


----------



## Argy Ottas

Henning said:


> Well, you know you can surive on water and old bread for a few weeks, right?


Am I a joke to you??


----------



## Futchibon

Argy Ottas said:


> Wasn't my dilemma of "Pacific Strings or Vista" enough, now I have the "angry" bundle too... I am Angry ARGY Pro at the moment...


Hopefully that qualifies you for a loyalty discount!


muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing Pacific will be released on my Birthday this month.
> 
> It would be the perfect gift to myself.


Remember the greatest gift is the gift of giving....i take paypal 


Zanshin said:


> I'm so excited for Pacific... Like xmas morning excited haha.


Same, for the Chorus choir too...


Henning said:


> Well, you know you can surive on water and old bread for a few weeks, right?


Funny 'cause it's true! In the last few months I've given up alcohol and eating out to subsidise my sample library purchases. It’s been healthy physically but mentally I've developed a bit of an addiction for vsts...


----------



## Casiquire

Is there a chance they'll be discontinued soon, if Pacific covers those bases?


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> Is there a chance they'll be discontinued soon, if Pacific covers those bases?


What are you referring to ? Vista ?


----------



## Zanshin

Casiquire said:


> Is there a chance they'll be discontinued soon, if Pacific covers those bases?


I don't think so, I think Pacific is just a2 groups for both wood and brass? Also different space (Vista/Voyage space).

Edit: Well the faq says a2 for brass, not sure about wood.


----------



## Futchibon

Zanshin said:


> I really like them, they are fun to play. I have the Angry Brass Pro – Soloists, and Angry Woodwinds Pro. I use them mostly as overlays and augmentation.


Do you have Infinite Brass/Woodwinds? I have both and not sure if the Angry Brass/WW package is a necessity? Sure would like it, tho


----------



## Soundbed

If anyone is looking for some quick thoughts on Angry WW Pro here are mine. If not, ignore me. 



0:00 Intro (summary)
3:34 All together now
4:57 Modeled EQ
6:10 Crossfade "grafting"
7:03 Augmented Triad Arps
9:10 Eastwest Hollywood Orchestra Woodwinds (EWHO)
10:44 CSW (Cinematic Studio Woodwinds)
11:22 B Page
11:48 More CSW Compare
13:52 Overblown Orchestral Tools Ark 4 (OT)
15:38 Angry Flute and Piccolo
16:58 Oboe and Bassoon
22:53 Clarinet
26:25 Descending Scale contrast with Ark 4 playing
28:02 Thanks for watching!


----------



## Zanshin

Futchibon said:


> Do you have Infinite Brass/Woodwinds? I have both and not sure if the Angry Brass/WW package is a necessity? Sure would like it, tho


I do. I’m a track preset guy, so I’ll usually start with dropping in pre-made IB ensembles for example then overlay an angry soloist. It’s a super playable FFF layer and feels good to play in the same way IB does. I think of it as another player or mic and to my ears AB-S lends some authenticity to IB. I don’t know how the ensembles are or how useful in this context.

IW I’m less happy with atm, but I have hope for the future lol. I just picked up Synchron-ized Woodwinds I’m starting to experiement with combining it with AW. AW really sits at a place Synchron-ized Woodwinds never gets to.

I’m anticipating the Angry stuff will be good with Pacfic Brass and Woods too but of course no experience there.


----------



## Trash Panda

Futchibon said:


> Do you have Infinite Brass/Woodwinds? I have both and not sure if the Angry Brass/WW package is a necessity? Sure would like it, tho


I haven’t used any of the Performance Samples brass or woodwinds since getting Infinite Brass and WW. YMMV


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing Pacific will be released on my Birthday this month.
> 
> It would be the perfect gift to myself.


Happy birthday in advanced.


----------



## muziksculp

holywilly said:


> Happy birthday in advanced.


Thanks.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Casiquire said:


> Is there a chance they'll be discontinued soon, if Pacific covers those bases?


Well, Con Moto has been discontinued too, but nothing really covered them. At least not yet...


----------



## Snarf

Pacific Woodwinds - a2 Clarinets Legato Alpha Test (softer dyn here)


www.performancesamples.com




soundcloud.app.goo.gl













BLEND TEST - Pacific String Sords and Harp + Pacific Woodwinds (alpha stage ob,cl,bsn here)


www.performancesamples.com




soundcloud.app.goo.gl





"First listen to legatos from Pacific Woodwinds. Pacific WW will be my first release where I'm finally bringing together "playable" multi-function type instruments with 4 speeds of reps (i.e. different speeds of shorts based on note length - with rr), rr attacks, connected sus repetitions, but now also legato."


----------



## Zanshin

Pacific Strings tomorrow??!


----------



## lettucehat

Very cool. Fully exposed this alpha demo has some of the crossfade issues all non-modeling libraries have, but it sounds like the WW could be worth the price of admission for the fast legato lines (example 2) alone. Great for textures.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Zanshin said:


> Pacific Strings tomorrow??!


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Zanshin said:


> Pacific Strings tomorrow??!


 Could very well be. If not tomorrow....sometime next week seem very likely 😉


----------



## Getsumen




----------



## Project Anvil

lettucehat said:


> Very cool. Fully exposed this alpha demo has some of the crossfade issues all non-modeling libraries have, but it sounds like the WW could be worth the price of admission for the fast legato lines (example 2) alone. Great for textures.


The very old Westgate studio clarinet can also do very fast lines, in fact I'd say it's the thing it does best:


Because it's a very old library however, the legato's are split up by dynamic layer, so I can't easily x-fade to a higher dynamic layer within one of these lines. There are community made patches out there which does have x-fades, but I like to torture myself instead.

You can get it here: https://www.bigfishaudio.com/detail.html?4&24&1::::::::1378:::D1378::1446


----------



## lettucehat

Project Anvil said:


> The very old Westgate studio clarinet can also do very fast lines, in fact I'd say it's the thing it does best:
> 
> 
> Because it's a very old library however, the legato's are split up by dynamic layer, so I can't easily x-fade to a higher dynamic layer within one of these lines. There are community made patches out there which does have x-fades, but I like to torture myself instead.
> 
> You can get it here: https://www.bigfishaudio.com/detail.html?4&24&1::::::::1378:::D1378::1446



They are good, I have most of them. Another surprisingly good library for fast legato - Auddict's Master Solo Woodwinds.


----------



## muziksculp

Niv Schrieber said:


> Could very well be. If not tomorrow....sometime next week seem very likely 😉


My Birthday is next week.

I wonder if there will be some type of a happy synchronicity with the release date of Pacific Strings.


----------



## artinro

lettucehat said:


> Very cool. Fully exposed this alpha demo has some of the crossfade issues all non-modeling libraries have, but it sounds like the WW could be worth the price of admission for the fast legato lines (example 2) alone. Great for textures.


Just 2 quick notes (I asked Jasper):

1) This snip is only showing a single dynamic layer (the final library will have multiple dynamic layers).

2) This is a2 clarinets, not a solo clarinet.


----------



## lettucehat

artinro said:


> Just 2 quick notes:
> 
> 1) This snip is only showing a single dynamic layer (the final library will have multiple dynamic layers).
> 
> 2) This is a2 clarinets, not a solo clarinet.


Oh! #2 makes a lot of sense, that explains what I was hearing. I can't read!


----------



## Soundbed

I woke up with a question for the Pacific Strings beta testers. Is that short pre-note sound audible at the beginning of the first note in a legato phrase, like in Con Moto and Vista?

If the question is unclear, there’s a bit of sound before each note, like the end of a reverb tail or a quiet release sample of the same pitch from a previous note, that is audible in some PS libs. I’ve always hoped it would be scripted out (silent) during the first note of a phrase — i.e., after xx milliseconds since the release of the previous note(s). 

Sort of sounds a bit like a couple players starting early. 

It’s easy enough to edit in audio, later.


----------



## JF

Also a question for the beta testers. Did Jasper include a noise floor patch?


----------



## muziksculp

Any guesses how much SSD space Pacific Strings will occupy ?


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Any guesses how much SSD space Pacific Strings will occupy ?


3.14159265359 gb. Oh wait, that's Picific


----------



## artinro

Soundbed said:


> I woke up with a question for the Pacific Strings beta testers. Is that short pre-note sound audible at the beginning of the first note in a legato phrase, like in Con Moto and Vista?


The alpha legato patches I've tested so far do not seem to have any audible pre-note. 



muziksculp said:


> Any guesses how much SSD space Pacific Strings will occupy ?


I asked Jasper, who says it's somewhere in the 25-35 gig range.



JF said:


> Also a question for the beta testers. Did Jasper include a noise floor patch?


Jasper says he has a noise floor audio file which he's putting into a patch.


----------



## Futchibon

artinro said:


> The alpha legato patches I've tested so far do not seem to have any audible pre-note.
> 
> 
> I asked Jasper, who says it's somewhere in the 25-35 gig range.
> 
> 
> Jasper says he has a noise floor audio file which he's putting into a patch.


Any idea of the release date?


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Any idea of the release date?


September


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> September


Last I heard it was mid to late September so now we are in the late part.


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Last I heard it was mid to late September so now we are in the late part.


Yes, I was hoping it will released today, but so far that hasn't happened. 

So hopefully.. Any day in the remaining days of Sept.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

Anticipation intensifies…


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Yes, I was hoping it will released today, but so far that hasn't happened.
> 
> So hopefully.. Any day in the remaining days of Sept.


Is today your birthday, isn't it this week?


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Is today your birthday


Hi @chapbot ,

Yes it is. 

I was hoping Pacific Strings will be out today, so I could add it to my celebration. I guess they are still polishing it.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Hi @chapbot ,
> 
> Yes it is.
> 
> I was hoping Pacific Strings will be out today, so I could add it to my celebration. I guess they are still polishing it.


Happy birthday!! Wouldn't that be a great gift


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> Happy birthday!! Wouldn't that be a great gift


THANKS ! 

Yes, it surely would have been a great gift, and not only for me, but many of us who have been patiently waiting for the release of Pacific Strings. But it is expected to be out any day now. So, we will be celebrating its release very soon.


----------



## borisb2

muziksculp said:


> THANKS !
> 
> Yes, it surely would have been a great gift, and not only for me, but many of us who have been patiently waiting for the release of Pacific Strings. But it is expected to be out any day now. So, we will be celebrating its release very soon.


Happy Birthday.. 

I had birthday a few weeks ago as well - no library in my inbox either (just some exciting news that I won again the lottery)


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Any guesses how much SSD space Pacific Strings will occupy ?


Based on the number of articulations, the dynamic layers and past sizes of PS libraries, I'm guessing about 30GB±5GB?


----------



## Futchibon

Niv Schrieber said:


> Each time I get a notification from this thread my heart skips a beat 🥲


How is your heart now? You must be close to flatlining!


----------



## CT

He's saving it for my next birthday in June.


----------



## muziksculp

borisb2 said:


> Happy Birthday..
> 
> I had birthday a few weeks ago as well - no library in my inbox either (just some exciting news that I won again the lottery)


THANKS !  

And Happy Birthday to you as well.


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Based on the number of articulations, the dynamic layers and past sizes of PS libraries, I'm guessing about 30GB±5GB?


Let's see how your guess compares with the library size when it is released.


----------



## NickDorito

This is like waiting for the battlefield 2042 beta all over again


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Let's see how your guess compares with the library size when it is released.


It was a joke - or an attempt at one!


artinro said:


> I asked Jasper, who says it's somewhere in the 25-35 gig range.





Futchibon said:


> Based on the number of articulations, the dynamic layers and past sizes of PS libraries, I'm guessing about 30GB±5GB?


I'll see myself out...


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Hi @chapbot ,
> 
> Yes it is.
> 
> I was hoping Pacific Strings will be out today, so I could add it to my celebration. I guess they are still polishing it.


Happy birthday


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Happy birthday


THANKS !


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> Hi @chapbot ,
> 
> Yes it is.
> 
> I was hoping Pacific Strings will be out today, so I could add it to my celebration. I guess they are still polishing it.


Happy birthday, wish you have unlimited amount of money to spend on whatever sample libraries you are craving for.


----------



## muziksculp

holywilly said:


> Happy birthday, wish you have unlimited amount of money to spend on whatever sample libraries you are craving for.


THANKS !  

LOL... I'm craving lots of libraries, but they are not releasing them fast enough.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Futchibon said:


> How is your heart now? You must be close to flatlining!


Hi this is a friend of niv, he unfortunately passed away due to this post. His heart suddenly stopped working yesterday,he couldn't take it anymore. His last wish was that I will get this library though, and I plan on doing just that


----------



## Argy Ottas

Niv Schrieber said:


> Hi this is a friend of niv, he unfortunately passed away due to this post. His heart suddenly stopped working yesterday,he couldn't take it anymore. His last wish was that I will get this library though, and I plan on doing just that


Without knowing him in person, I am sure that he would also like his ashes to be thrown into the deep Pacific ocean... RIP


----------



## Nando Florestan

Today after work I will take pencil and paper and write string music furiously, so that when Pacific arrives, I can just work on the mockup.

Also I am going to start suggesting we stop writing all these sweet expectant messages -- Jasper might be enjoying them too much for our good.


----------



## Sovereign

So, september becomes oktober I guess?


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> So, september becomes oktober I guess?


September has a few more days to go. Lets hope it's not pushed forward to October.


----------



## Bernard Duc

Sovereign said:


> So, september becomes oktober I guess?


"The bus was supposed to come at 5pm and it's 4:55pm, I guess the bus is late!"


----------



## Argy Ottas

Bernard Duc said:


> "The bus was supposed to come at 5pm and it's 4:55pm, I guess the bus is late!"


----------



## artinro

Folks, I just spoke with Jasper. 

As many of you know, he's had an ongoing hearing-related medical condition for the last month and a half or so. Thankfully, he's been quite proactive about it and has been receiving treatment for it from the very start. Though it did stop him from doing active listening at first, that's no longer the case and, thankfully, he’s been able to continue work on Pacific through the treatments. It has slowed the final touches on strings down just a bit though, as he's had to travel a decent amount around the Bay area on a near daily basis for the treatments. All that said, there will be a bit more of a delay on the strings…but not much. He's quite close and obviously he doesn't want to rush anything out the door before he's satisfied it's as polished as possible. The entire library is completely done, with the sole exception of some final legato adjustments.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

artinro said:


> Folks, I just spoke with Jasper.
> 
> As many of you know, he's had an ongoing hearing-related medical condition for the last month and a half or so. Thankfully, he's been quite proactive about it and has been receiving treatment for it from the very start. Though it did stop him from doing active listening at first, that's no longer the case and, thankfully, he’s been able to continue work on Pacific through the treatments. It has slowed the final touches on strings down just a bit though, as he's had to travel a decent amount around the Bay area on a near daily basis for the treatments. All that said, there will be a bit more of a delay on the strings…but not much. He's quite close and obviously he doesn't want to rush anything out the door before he's satisfied it's as polished as possible. The entire library is completely done, with the sole exception of some final legato adjustments.


Thank you so much for the updates. I sincerely hope jasper's hearing condition will be healed asap and that he is better.


----------



## muziksculp

@artinro ,


Thanks for the update.

So, does this translate to an October release ?


----------



## Hendrixon

muziksculp said:


> @artinro ,
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update.
> 
> So, does this translate to an October release ?


REALLY?!


----------



## Evans

Like many other announced products, it will be out when it's out, and there's no point trying to guess when that will be.


----------



## muziksculp

The Pacific Strings library site still shows 'September' .


----------



## Argy Ottas

muziksculp said:


> The Pacific Strings library site still shows 'September' .


Someone heard you...


----------



## muziksculp

Argy Ottas said:


> Someone heard you...


OH... They just changed it. 

I guess we just have to wait, and wait... until it is ready.


----------



## lettucehat

muziksculp said:


> I guess we just have to wait, and wait... until it is ready.


What a concept.


----------



## Hendrixon

I hope Jasper WON'T release Pacific until he is fully recovered, when ever this will happen.


----------



## a_reumers




----------



## Sovereign

Bernard Duc said:


> "The bus was supposed to come at 5pm and it's 4:55pm, I guess the bus is late!"


That critique didn't age well quickly.


----------



## Halfstar

a_reumers said:


>



Now THAT'S a harp! 🙏


----------



## Bernard Duc

Sovereign said:


> That critique didn't age well quickly.


I live a dangerous life.


----------



## Futchibon

artinro said:


> Folks, I just spoke with Jasper.
> 
> As many of you know, he's had an ongoing hearing-related medical condition for the last month and a half or so. Thankfully, he's been quite proactive about it and has been receiving treatment for it from the very start. Though it did stop him from doing active listening at first, that's no longer the case and, thankfully, he’s been able to continue work on Pacific through the treatments. It has slowed the final touches on strings down just a bit though, as he's had to travel a decent amount around the Bay area on a near daily basis for the treatments. All that said, there will be a bit more of a delay on the strings…but not much. He's quite close and obviously he doesn't want to rush anything out the door before he's satisfied it's as polished as possible. The entire library is completely done, with the sole exception of some final legato adjustments.


Thanks for the update. Do you happen to have any intel on 'Chorus' being developed by Jasper and AI?


----------



## Argy Ottas

Sorry guys... Only with memes I can drown my sorrow...


----------



## soulofsound

muziksculp said:


> My Birthday is next week.
> 
> I wonder if there will be some type of a happy synchronicity with the release date of Pacific Strings.


*Release ETAs*

Strings, Percussion, Brass, and Woodwinds: Late 2021 starting with Strings






Pacific – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com





Sorry to disappoint.


----------



## Zanshin

soulofsound said:


> *Release ETAs*
> 
> Strings, Percussion, Brass, and Woodwinds: Late 2021 starting with Strings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pacific – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to disappoint.


It’s almost like you came from the future!


----------



## Getsumen




----------



## Casiquire

Hmm. Maybe I'm wrong here but that last example sounds kinda normal. Great tone but nothing revolutionary; Vista sounds far more expressive to my ears, for example


----------



## yellow_lupine

Still late alpha?


----------



## Argy Ottas

Casiquire said:


> sounds kinda normal


As humanity, we have been striving to "return to normal" for two years now, and YOU are complaining that the cellos are "normal"? Shame on you!


----------



## Argy Ottas

All joking aside, I feel relieved with how close mics sound (for sculpting purposes) and I honestly look forward to layer this with CM or Vista.


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> Hmm. Maybe I'm wrong here but that last example sounds kinda normal. Great tone but nothing revolutionary; Vista sounds far more expressive to my ears, for example


Isn't that the point? 

Vista is supposed to be super-expressive, molto vibrato and small ensembles. Pacific is more conventional symphonic strings. 

I'd hardly go as far as to call it un-expressive too. To me, that is how I'd describe MSS or SSP, where this is much more along the lines of Soaring strings and CSS.


----------



## MA-Simon

Halfstar said:


> Now THAT'S a harp!


Hm... imho thats not a harp. It tonally sounds like a harp, but the playing is strange. Weirdly the late reflections seem to sound almost before the note is beeing played. I don't think the fast repetition sampling is working well for single plucks here. Would have to playtest it myself though. Probably won't stop me from getting the strings though!


----------



## I like music

I couldn't find anything about vib/non-vib crossfades. I don't know much about PS but my guess is that what we hear is baked in, and that his approach might not have a non-vib-vib crossfade? I might be totally wrong here but interested to know!


----------



## MA-Simon

Getsumen said:


>



Not a huge fan of this either. Maybe it is my headphones making trouble today, had a few stutters while listening to some demos. But this does sound somewhat muffled and weidly distorted towards the end.


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> Isn't that the point?
> 
> Vista is supposed to be super-expressive, molto vibrato and small ensembles. Pacific is more conventional symphonic strings.
> 
> I'd hardly go as far as to call it un-expressive too. To me, that is how I'd describe MSS or SSP, where this is much more along the lines of Soaring strings and CSS.


I don't think it sounds anywhere close to as emotive as SS


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> I don't think it sounds anywhere close to as emotive as SS


Depends on what you look for in emotive playing. 

I'm playing along with SS and Vista. SS def has a more intense and faster vibrato, but pacific has more slurred legato intervals (and less clunky transitions). But SS vibrato seems more intense than vista too (that might be because it's much drier and upfront whereas vista cellos sit further back and blend in with the room more). 

Yet I find the over Vista more emotive because of its phrasing. Exact same for why I think CSS is so emotive - it's the phrasing, not just the vibrato.

Tone-wise, Vista cellos are my least favourite of the set because they sound pretty nasal and muffled to me. CM and Pacific are much better in this regard. SS too.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Every time I see those new shiny libs, I vigorously repeat my beloved Bach mantra: "Ich habe genug". CM is great actually, and I would say I like my CM cellos somewhat more.
The loyalty offer is generous, but I am still holding up ...


----------



## Pianolando

Getsumen said:


>




Great legato and excellent dynamics, both loud and really soft truly captured (plus everything in between) and the dynamic transitions is super smooth to my ears. Very cool, exited about this!


----------



## Argy Ottas

Vlzmusic said:


> Every time I see those new shiny libs, I vigorously repeat my beloved Bach mantra: "Ich habe genug". CM is great actually, and I would say I like my CM cellos somewhat more.
> The loyalty offer is generous, but I am still holding up ...


And what about the "slur" Mister? What about the "slur"...


----------



## Vlzmusic

Argy Ottas said:


> And what about the "slur" Mister? What about the "slur"...


You want me to crack up already!? It's not even out yet, give me a chance to hold up till the release day at least


----------



## Halfstar

MA-Simon said:


> Hm... imho thats not a harp. It tonally sounds like a harp, but the playing is strange. Weirdly the late reflections seem to sound almost before the note is beeing played. I don't think the fast repetition sampling is working well for single plucks here. Would have to playtest it myself though. Probably won't stop me from getting the strings though!


I always listen for overall realism and in my opinion, when I hear that harp I picture an actual harp player plucking away at it, regardless of how the someone chose to perform it on a keyboard for demo purposes. To my ear, there's nothing synthetic about it, it's very natural. I can use that and feel very secure about it's authenticity of sound. Same with the recent cello demo - no it may not be as expressive as Vista but that's what Vista is for. Overall, I'm loving what I'm hearing 😉


----------



## Loerpert

MA-Simon said:


>




I like the overal handling of the library but it sounds a bit compressed, or is that just me? Hope it's not baked into the samples.


----------



## chapbot

gst98 said:


> Isn't that the point?
> 
> Vista is supposed to be super-expressive, molto vibrato and small ensembles. Pacific is more conventional symphonic strings.
> 
> I'd hardly go as far as to call it un-expressive too. To me, that is how I'd describe MSS or SSP, where this is much more along the lines of Soaring strings and CSS.


Agreed. This is really Jasper's first comprehensive library. I'm super excited to have all the articulations.


----------



## lettucehat

Everything people are talking about regarding this cello sample is par for the course with symphonic size string ensemble libraries. There's a reason OT, CS, 8dio and others went with smaller ensembles for their flagship string libraries - and why PS libraries have been smaller groups until now. Best to compare what you're hearing to SSS, Hollywood Strings, Berlin Symphonic Strings, etc. They all come with certain issues.


----------



## lettucehat

Casiquire said:


> Hmm. Maybe I'm wrong here but that last example sounds kinda normal. Great tone but nothing revolutionary; Vista sounds far more expressive to my ears, for example


This is more or less what Pacific's own product page says.


----------



## muziksculp

The 10 Celli Legato demo is for a late-Alpha version, and it sounds pretty good.

So this is still an early version of the library, and more improved version could be expected during the beta-version ? or close to release version ? 

Since Jasper is mainly working on the Legato part of the library, trying to further improve them. I'm guessing all the other articulations are done.


----------



## Soundbed

Loerpert said:


> I like the overal handling of the library but it sounds a bit compressed, or is that just me? Hope it's not baked into the samples.


fwiw Vista has dynamics compression and expansion controls on the 'B' page, maybe Pacific does too? 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Soundbed

Halfstar said:


> I always listen for overall realism and in my opinion, when I hear that harp I picture an actual harp player plucking away at it, regardless of how the someone chose to perform it on a keyboard for demo purposes. To my ear, there's nothing synthetic about it, it's very natural.


what he's talking about is specifically :



MA-Simon said:


> Weirdly the late reflections seem to sound almost before the note is beeing played. I don't think the fast repetition sampling is working well for single plucks here. Would have to playtest it myself though. Probably



It's the "pre note" sound that gets added to PS samples that help them sound more "fluid" during note repetition, but _can_ be slightly distracting, in certain circumstances. it's not about the keyboard playing / demo itself.

I asked a similar question about Pacific strings. But @artinro said:


artinro said:


> The alpha legato patches I've tested so far do not seem to have any audible pre-note.


----------



## Casiquire

Soundbed said:


> what he's talking about is specifically :
> 
> 
> 
> It's the "pre note" sound that gets added to PS samples that help them sound more "fluid" during note repetition, but _can_ be slightly distracting, in certain circumstances. it's not about the keyboard playing / demo itself.
> 
> I asked a similar question about Pacific strings. But @artinro said:


I'm really glad he found a way to avoid that in the strings, though in the Vista violin demo it's not terribly distracting. There must be a way to avoid it in the harp too though. Record one initial note sample and follow that with the repeated ones, for example, and use those requested ones only when the same note is still ringing. 

Funny, i thought the pre-noise would be worse in the more ambient mics but that's not the case


----------



## Paul Jelfs

This certainly is the year of waiting for strings - 
Pacific and Voyage
Sonokinetic
Cinesamples
Infinite Strings
Sample Modeling 2.0 Strings 
Tokyo Scoring Strings. 

Do you realise they are ALL going to land at once around Black Friday ? : )


----------



## muziksculp

Paul Jelfs said:


> This certainly is the year of waiting for strings -
> Pacific and Voyage
> Sonokinetic
> Cinesamples
> Infinite Strings
> Sample Modeling 2.0 Strings
> Tokyo Scoring Strings.
> 
> Do you realise they are ALL going to land at once around Black Friday ? : )


Yeah.. quite a waiting list of strings libraries. Here are some that might show up on or after BF., but before the end of this year.

VSL Synchron Solo Strings, and there is a very slim chance that Spitfire Abbey-Road 1 Modular Strings will show up this year, but most likely 2022.

Also an updated version of CSS, and CSSS is due this year. Maybe by BF, for both an improved version, and an attractive discounted price, for those who want to buy these libraries.

Audio Modeling SWAM Ensemble Strings Hopefully before the end of this year. This one is going to be a very interesting, and unique library.

Audiobro LASS 3, and LSS 3 Looking forward to both these releases by the end of 2021.


----------



## I like music

muziksculp said:


> Audio Modeling SWAM Ensemble Strings Hopefully before the end of this year. This one is going to be a very interesting, and unique library.


How did I miss this news? Veeeery interesting.

Regarding Pacific, has Jasper said anything about vib/non-vib?


----------



## gst98

I like music said:


> How did I miss this news? Veeeery interesting.
> 
> Regarding Pacific, has Jasper said anything about vib/non-vib?


Assume there is no xfade unless said otherwise I think. but with so many dynamics there should be a fairly natural fade of vib on the patches. Tbh I think it will be unlikely to see a PS lib with this any time soon, especially with 14 dynamics.


----------



## I like music

gst98 said:


> Assume there is no xfade unless said otherwise I think. but with so many dynamics there should be a fairly natural fade of vib on the patches. Tbh I think it will be unlikely to see a PS lib with this any time soon, especially with 14 dynamics.


Oh yeah, forgot about all the dynamic layers! It would be madness to try to do vib fades across that many dynamics! Imagine how expensive those sessions would be! Though I don't own any PS libraries, I guess philosophically I can't see him creating something like that.


----------



## JF

Do we know how many dynamic layers are on the legatos?


----------



## MA-Simon

I like music said:


> Oh yeah, forgot about all the dynamic layers! It would be madness to try to do vib fades across that many dynamics! Imagine how expensive those sessions would be!


+ with the way kontakt handles layers, voice count would be doubled or tripled per note played. With 14 layers and multible mics, that can be a lot.


----------



## Nando Florestan

About the latest demo of the alpha cellos... I like their sonority but dislike the fact that absolutely all the transitions are fingered legato with a bit of portamento -- as if the entire phrase were played on a single string.

I wonder if fingered legato is all we're getting.


----------



## Geocranium

Nando Florestan said:


> About the latest demo of the alpha cellos... I like their sonority but dislike the fact that absolutely all the transitions are fingered legato with a bit of portamento -- as if the entire phrase were played on a single string.
> 
> I wonder if fingered legato is all we're getting.



I noticed that too. I like the tone and the ambiance of the library but that performance was whack. It sounds very unnatural to have the entire thing be one giant phrase as if the players have an enormous bow and arms, and the instrument has one massive string.


----------



## Casiquire

To be fair though, i rarely use vibrato crossfades. They seem very finicky to implement well and to use. I think we're better served to find a library whose legato we already like and then use non vibrato samples separately when we want that sound. A switch instead of a crossfade. I wouldn't miss it in something like Pacific though


----------



## Petrucci

Casiquire said:


> To be fair though, i rarely use vibrato crossfades. They seem very finicky to implement well and to use. I think we're better served to find a library whose legato we already like and then use non vibrato samples separately when we want that sound. A switch instead of a crossfade. I wouldn't miss it in something like Pacific though



I remember vibrato crossfades done very well in Hollywood Strings btw..! Also VSL SSPro and ES do this quite nicely!


----------



## muziksculp

Petrucci said:


> I remember vibrato crossfades done very well in Hollywood Strings btw..! Also VSL SSPro and ES do this quite nicely!


I guess it's because VSL doesn't use Kontakt.


----------



## I like music

Petrucci said:


> I remember vibrato crossfades done very well in Hollywood Strings btw..! Also VSL SSPro and ES do this quite nicely!


I haven't much sample library experience, but to my ears, HWS has the best sounding crossfades of all the libraries where I have heard it tried.


----------



## Vlzmusic

I like music said:


> I haven't much sample library experience, but to my ears, HWS has the best sounding crossfades of all the libraries where I have heard it tried.


It is very context dependent - change the tick section sound with a smaller one, or a solo instrument, and you've got more evident crossfades right there. Brass usually responds better to this technique, so you are more likely to find great sounding crossfades with Horns, Trombones etc.


----------



## Petrucci

Vlzmusic said:


> It is very context dependent - change the tick section sound with a smaller one, or a solo instrument, and you've got more evident crossfades right there. Brass usually responds better to this technique, so you are more likely to find great sounding crossfades with Horns, Trombones etc.



I think it was more about strings vibrato crossfades - not many string libraries have it at all btw.


----------



## Werty

I don't know if it has been asked already in this long thread, but, do you think Pacific can replace Vista? Vista to me is the best sounding strings library together with Miroire (regardless of articulations etc, the sound is all I care about).


----------



## ism

Werty said:


> I don't know if it has been asked already in this long thread, but, do you think Pacific can replace Vista? Vista to me is the best sounding strings library together with Miroire (regardless of articulations etc, the sound is all I care about).


Well Vista is a very detailed, hyper romantic chamber sound, and Pacific is a much larger symphonic sound. So I don't know how they would be interchangeable for any music at all sensitive to section size.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Werty said:


> I don't know if it has been asked already in this long thread, but, do you think Pacific can replace Vista? Vista to me is the best sounding strings library together with Miroire (regardless of articulations etc, the sound is all I care about).


To me, Voyage will replace Vista, not Pacific.
IMO, having Con Moto, or Vista, or both, will accompany Pacific perfectly, either for divisi purposes, or to give more detail (Con Moto: Detaché, Vista: Slur), (Fist chairs).


----------



## Casiquire

Werty said:


> I don't know if it has been asked already in this long thread, but, do you think Pacific can replace Vista? Vista to me is the best sounding strings library together with Miroire (regardless of articulations etc, the sound is all I care about).


I absolutely don't think so. Vista has a gorgeous expressive sound and a Pacific sounds really neutral


----------



## mcalis

Argy Ottas said:


> To me, Voyage will replace Vista, not Pacific.


Amen!

Though I don't think it will _replace _it so much as expand on it.

I like Pacific so far and will keep an eye out for woods and brass, but for the strings I'm more excited about voyage. The one voyage viola test patch/freebie that was made available has me very interested in seeing what Jasper will do with the project


----------



## Werty

Vista it's a masterpiece, but I don't think Voyage can replace those legatos, unless it's recorded in the same way.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Let's conclude that the magic with Jasper's samples is this. Each library has a distinct personality and aims at different styles/techniques each time. Looking forward for both Pacific and Voyage and I'm sure we will not be disappointed.


----------



## Sovereign

The smaller Vista section sizes are deceptive, as Vista sounds remarkably 'large' and from playing along with some Pacific demos it is going to sit really well besides Pacific IMO.


----------



## lettucehat

Argy Ottas said:


> Let's conclude that the magic with Jasper's samples is this. Each library has a distinct personality and aims at different styles/techniques each time. Looking forward for both Pacific and Voyage and I'm sure we will not be disappointed.


It's so funny that I've shied away from Afflatus all this time (even the 50% off sale) because I'm not totally comfortable with that novel approach, but here I am buying every slightly different PS ensemble that comes out. Make it make sense!


----------



## Futchibon

lettucehat said:


> It's so funny that I've shied away from Afflatus all this time (even the 50% off sale) because I'm not totally comfortable with that novel approach, but here I am buying every slightly different PS ensemble that comes out. Make it make sense!


----------



## Sovereign

So since we've moved into October now as I feared, are we looking at an early or late October release? Another q for the 'insiders', the harp is not mentioned as being part of the strings package, yet comes included with it?


----------



## muziksculp

October ?


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> October ?


November?

Though not advertised yet PS seems to have an "EARLY BLACK FRIDAY / END-OF-YEAR MEGA SALE" on most if not all their products.


----------



## Argy Ottas

I think the Pacific has dried up lately and has become a desert...


----------



## Argy Ottas

Sovereign said:


> November?
> 
> Though not advertised yet PS seems to have an "EARLY BLACK FRIDAY / END-OF-YEAR MEGA SALE" on most if not all their products.


----------



## wlinart

Sovereign said:


> November?
> 
> Though not advertised yet PS seems to have an "EARLY BLACK FRIDAY / END-OF-YEAR MEGA SALE" on most if not all their products.


And the nice thing about that is that for example Vista is now $179, but the loyalty discount for pacific is $200 if we own vista


----------



## Zanshin

wlinart said:


> And the nice thing about that is that for example Vista is now $179, but the loyalty discount for pacific is $200 if we own vista


Was just typing the same. Real no brainer for those with out Vista!


----------



## Argy Ottas

From now on, I am a Vista guy! Waiting for Pacific now...


----------



## Argy Ottas

wlinart said:


> but the loyalty discount for pacific is $200 if we own vista


Are you sure about that? Isn't it $499?


----------



## wlinart

Argy Ottas said:


> Are you sure about that? Isn't it $499?


yes, while the normal intro is $699, so a discount of $200


----------



## Argy Ottas

wlinart said:


> yes, while the normal intro is $699, so a discount of $200


I am stupid... I thought you were referring $200 for the final price..


----------



## wlinart

Could happen to anyone 
I wish it was true though!


----------



## I like music

Vista is $179?!?!?!


----------



## Argy Ottas

I like music said:


> Vista is $179?!?!?!


Yep!!!


----------



## ism

Almost starting to hit the range of non-boutique pricing.


----------



## I like music

Argy Ottas said:


> Yep!!!


Man oh man ... I said I wouldn't look at another strings library until the Infinite stuff came out.

But now, Vista at this price...


----------



## NickDorito

NickDorito said:


> It's never coming out


It's never coming out


----------



## Loerpert

Just got Vista as well. Nice!


----------



## Russell Anderson

Sorry to crosspost this, haven’t been able to locate the information I’m trying to find: does Performance Samples offer loyalty discounts on sales that comes after the initial introductory pricing? I think I can swing Vista at this price and would like to save for Voyage, but give it some time so I can continue learning SCS, and make the final decision on whether I want Voyage or not in a few months, perhaps after it’s already out and intro pricing ends.


----------



## Zanshin

Russell Anderson said:


> Sorry to crosspost this, haven’t been able to locate the information I’m trying to find: does Performance Samples offer loyalty discounts on sales that comes after the initial introductory pricing? I think I can swing Vista at this price and would like to save for Voyage, but give it some time so I can continue learning SCS, and make the final decision on whether I want Voyage or not in a few months, perhaps after it’s already out and intro pricing ends.


PS history says likely, but no one knows. Voyage could be a year or more away too.


----------



## Sovereign

I see that Jasper has added the harp to the patch list/specs. Great.


----------



## Futchibon

Harmonics and 8 dynamic layers, nice!


----------



## handz

Vista for 179 is a REALLY temptin price


----------



## Circe

Hi ! I have seen how the VISTA library is on sale, on its page it does not specify how long the offer lasts, does anyone know the end date of the offer? Thank you !!


----------



## Circe

Loerpert said:


> Just got Vista as well. Nice!


Does it sound like demos ??? Thanks


----------



## Pianolando

Circe said:


> Hi ! I have seen how the VISTA library is on sale, on its page it does not specify how long the offer lasts, does anyone know the end date of the offer? Thank you !!



Through nov 11 it says.


----------



## Circe

Pianolando said:


> Through nov 11 it says.


Thanks... Next week to buy it


----------



## Loerpert

Circe said:


> Does it sound like demos ??? Thanks


 Yes it does. It's especially powerful from the mid dynamics and up. I think I will use it mainly for layering with other libs.


----------



## Circe

Loerpert said:


> Yes it does. It's especially powerful from the mid dynamics and up. I think I will use it mainly for layering with other libs.


Thanks for answering, I know that many times sound libraries have nothing to do with commercial audio demos, and if you say they sound the same, that encourages me to buy it in a few days, they sound so warm and full of retro shine. Fantastic.


----------



## Circe

Circe said:


> Thanks for answering, I know that many times sound libraries have nothing to do with commercial audio demos, and if you say they sound the same, that encourages me to buy it in a few days, they sound so warm and full of retro shine. Fantastic.


A very good link video...


----------



## Casiquire

Circe said:


> Does it sound like demos ??? Thanks


Heads up, there's a free one octave violin demo you can download and use it yourself. I'm glad they did because when i tried the demo, it convinced me that it's NOT worth full price, but it's a great deal at the current price. It's a great way of sensing what it's worth to you, and every dev should do something similar


----------



## Futchibon

So do you think Pacific will be released before the sale ends on November 11?


----------



## davidson

Pacific isn't a replacement for vista is it? I mean, vista is chamber, whereas pacific will be symphonic?


----------



## Casiquire

davidson said:


> Pacific isn't a replacement for vista is it? I mean, vista is chamber, whereas pacific will be symphonic?


Right, and they sound very different. Vista has an intensely emotional sound with heavy vibrato and Pacific sounds pretty neutral by comparison


----------



## davidson

Cheers @Casiquire 

Out of interest, why was fluid shorts 1 discontinued? Is there a new version in the works? As far as I can tell, FS2 isn't a replacement for 1 as it only has the single dynamic layer. 

Also, was the FS2 cracking issue ever fixed?


----------



## Casiquire

davidson said:


> Cheers @Casiquire
> 
> Out of interest, why was fluid shorts 1 discontinued? Is there a new version in the works? As far as I can tell, FS2 isn't a replacement for 1 as it only has the single dynamic layer.
> 
> Also, was the FS2 cracking issue ever fixed?


I have no idea, i don't work for PS. But maybe some other users here will have answers for you


----------



## Nando Florestan

I bought Vista yesterday. It does sound like the demos. A couple troubles I have:

- I am either doing something wrong or *the harp* does not respond either to CC1 or to velocity. Not expressive at all. And the pre-attack is deafening, very upsetting. Unusable, in truth.
- The *violins are fingered legato* only (with a bit of portamento), no way to hear any bow change legato without a bit of a glide. (If you momentarily switch legato off, there's way too much of an attack.) Which makes me worry that Pacific will be the same. The latest cellos demo posted a few pages ago would indicate so. In contrast, Con Moto had no glide.
- Inconsistently, the *violas* basically have *no glide* in them (although in some intervals you CAN hear it), making them more useful than the violins -- in one aspect. The problem with the violas is the narrow pitch range, which stops short of the A (La) just one octave above the 1st string. The orchestral range of the violas goes to the D above that. CSS reaches the C#. The VSL Violas patch that comes in the Kontakt Standard Library goes to the E above that. To be fair, the range of Soaring Strings is one semitone less than Vista.
- Reconsistently, the cellos have a bit of glide in them, perhaps 50% of the intervals, very subtle, which is useful for foreground lines. Honestly as a mockup maker I prefer to be in control of such parameters, so using PS libraries becomes a dumb luck game: try it on this line, maybe it will sound glorious, maybe it will be the wrong expression.

Con Moto should not have been retired, it is more useful to me than Vista. CPU usage is fine in both, but less in Con Moto, which is a recording of more instruments (88666, basically twice as Vista). I have been using Con Moto for my foreground lines when appropriate and relying mostly on CSS for accompaniment and the missing articulations. I cannot switch between CSS and Vista because it's so few instruments. Vista does not blend with Spitfire Chamber Strings at all since the sounds are so different. It's currently hard to find a place for Vista, except as divisi for Con Moto, therefore Con Moto should still be sold.

What I would like is for Pacific to significantly diminish my library switching, but the reality seems to be shaping differently.

The Vista sketching patch (full ensemble sustains) is very good.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Nando Florestan said:


> I bought Vista yesterday. It does sound like the demos. A couple troubles I have:
> 
> - I am either doing something wrong or *the harp* does not respond either to CC1 or to velocity. Not expressive at all. And the pre-attack is deafening, very upsetting. Unusable, in truth.
> - The *violins are fingered legato* only (with a bit of portamento), no way to hear any bow change legato without a bit of a glide. (If you momentarily switch legato off, there's way too much of an attack.) Which makes me worry that Pacific will be the same. The latest cellos demo posted a few pages ago would indicate so. In contrast, Con Moto had no glide.
> - Inconsistently, the *violas* basically have *no glide* in them (although in some intervals you CAN hear it), making them more useful than the violins -- in one aspect. The problem with the violas is the narrow pitch range, which stops short of the A (La) just one octave above the 1st string. The orchestral range of the violas goes to the D above that. CSS reaches the C#. The VSL Violas patch that comes in the Kontakt Standard Library goes to the E above that. To be fair, the range of Soaring Strings is one semitone less than Vista.
> - Reconsistently, the cellos have a bit of glide in them, perhaps 50% of the intervals, very subtle, which is useful for foreground lines. Honestly as a mockup maker I prefer to be in control of such parameters, so using PS libraries becomes a dumb luck game: try it on this line, maybe it will sound glorious, maybe it will be the wrong expression.
> 
> Con Moto should not have been retired, it is more useful to me than Vista. CPU usage is fine in both, but less in Con Moto, which is a recording of more instruments (88666, basically twice as Vista). I have been using Con Moto for my foreground lines when appropriate and relying mostly on CSS for accompaniment and the missing articulations. I cannot switch between CSS and Vista because it's so few instruments. Vista does not blend with Spitfire Chamber Strings at all since the sounds are so different. It's currently hard to find a place for Vista, except as divisi for Con Moto, therefore Con Moto should still be sold.
> 
> What I would like is for Pacific to significantly diminish my library switching, but the reality seems to be shaping differently.
> 
> The Vista sketching patch (full ensemble sustains) is very good.


That's why layering those two brings the magic.
I can highlight (by tweaking the mics volume) either the detaché from Con Moto or the "slur"-portamento from Vista to taste.
I bought Vista yesterday and I immediately wanted to test them with Con Moto. 
Came up with this rough speedwriting.


----------



## Casiquire

Nando Florestan said:


> I bought Vista yesterday. It does sound like the demos. A couple troubles I have:
> 
> - I am either doing something wrong or *the harp* does not respond either to CC1 or to velocity. Not expressive at all. And the pre-attack is deafening, very upsetting. Unusable, in truth.
> - The *violins are fingered legato* only (with a bit of portamento), no way to hear any bow change legato without a bit of a glide. (If you momentarily switch legato off, there's way too much of an attack.) Which makes me worry that Pacific will be the same. The latest cellos demo posted a few pages ago would indicate so. In contrast, Con Moto had no glide.
> - Inconsistently, the *violas* basically have *no glide* in them (although in some intervals you CAN hear it), making them more useful than the violins -- in one aspect. The problem with the violas is the narrow pitch range, which stops short of the A (La) just one octave above the 1st string. The orchestral range of the violas goes to the D above that. CSS reaches the C#. The VSL Violas patch that comes in the Kontakt Standard Library goes to the E above that. To be fair, the range of Soaring Strings is one semitone less than Vista.
> - Reconsistently, the cellos have a bit of glide in them, perhaps 50% of the intervals, very subtle, which is useful for foreground lines. Honestly as a mockup maker I prefer to be in control of such parameters, so using PS libraries becomes a dumb luck game: try it on this line, maybe it will sound glorious, maybe it will be the wrong expression.
> 
> Con Moto should not have been retired, it is more useful to me than Vista. CPU usage is fine in both, but less in Con Moto, which is a recording of more instruments (88666, basically twice as Vista). I have been using Con Moto for my foreground lines when appropriate and relying mostly on CSS for accompaniment and the missing articulations. I cannot switch between CSS and Vista because it's so few instruments. Vista does not blend with Spitfire Chamber Strings at all since the sounds are so different. It's currently hard to find a place for Vista, except as divisi for Con Moto, therefore Con Moto should still be sold.
> 
> What I would like is for Pacific to significantly diminish my library switching, but the reality seems to be shaping differently.
> 
> The Vista sketching patch (full ensemble sustains) is very good.


Great thoughts. Thank you for sharing them. As far as the harp, I've only played with it a tiny bit so I'm not sure if it has dynamic layers, but there's certainly a volume change based on velocity. Are you experiencing that at all?


----------



## Bernard Duc

Nando Florestan said:


> - The *violins are fingered legato* only (with a bit of portamento), no way to hear any bow change legato without a bit of a glide. (If you momentarily switch legato off, there's way too much of an attack.) Which makes me worry that Pacific will be the same. The latest cellos demo posted a few pages ago would indicate so. In contrast, Con Moto had no glide.


The attack is velocity controlled, so if you want the slower attack you just need to use velocity 1-16.


----------



## Bernard Duc

Nando Florestan said:


> - I am either doing something wrong or *the harp* does not respond either to CC1 or to velocity. Not expressive at all. And the pre-attack is deafening, very upsetting. Unusable, in truth.


I guess the reason it's in the bonus folder it's because it's more limited in use. It definitely responds to velocity but the dynamic range seems to be limited. If you want to add more dynamic range you can very easily do it by editing the instrument (PM me if you don't know how to do that, I don't want to add noise to this thread since it's off topic), and don't forget that the close mic is disabled by default, so if you want to use it for anything more than pure accompaniment you probably want to turn it on. As for the pre-attack, it can be heard a little bit if you play single notes, but it's completely unnoticeable if you play arpeggiated chords or glissandos, which is 95% of the harp in orchestral accompaniment. But don't forget that you need to use the pedal at all times with this harp!

So yes, not a solo instrument, but very useable for accompaniment.


----------



## gst98

Nando Florestan said:


> - The *violins are fingered legato* only (with a bit of portamento), no way to hear any bow change legato without a bit of a glide. (If you momentarily switch legato off, there's way too much of an attack.) Which makes me worry that Pacific will be the same. The latest cellos demo posted a few pages ago would indicate so. In contrast, Con Moto had no glide.


The whole point of vista is there is one legato type (slurred) and the transition time increase as the intervals get larger, decided by what the players thought suited it. There is no mention of bow change legato

The harp (which was included as a bonus patch designed for note repetitions, not standard playing) can be a bit heavy on the pre-note. But change the mic balance and you can diminish it. I like to layer it with a conventional harp sample, and it really adds a sense blur and movement on glissandi. As someone mentioned you have to use the sustain pedal. 

and they are supposed to be symphonic-sounding chamber strings so they probably won't blend with SCS well, no.


----------



## zwhita

Was having second thoughts about skipping Vista when I was playing BBCSO Core strings along with the demos today. Vista certainly has more movement and intensty in those top 2 dynamics. Any thoughts about using Vista to layer with or replace the legato articulation in BBCSO?


----------



## Loerpert

zwhita said:


> Was having second thoughts about skipping Vista when I was playing BBCSO Core strings along with the demos today. Vista certainly has more movement and intensty in those top 2 dynamics. Any thoughts about using Vista to layer with or replace the legato articulation in BBCSO?



Works great, since BBCSO is very tunable with it's many mics


----------



## Loerpert

zwhita said:


> I unfortunately have Core, so 1 Mix. I was comparing the Vista 5 Violins to BBCSO Violins 1 just now and they are tonally similar. Vista just has more movement. Hmmm. Can't really justify $180 for that. I see for Pacific the intro price versus loyalty price difference is only $10 if you include the current price of Vista, so again I think I'll skip this one.



If you are certain you're getting Pacific, then Vista is basically free if you count the loyalty price and you don't have any PS libs. But I understand the decision if you're not certain about Pacific.


----------



## Casiquire

zwhita said:


> Was having second thoughts about skipping Vista when I was playing BBCSO Core strings along with the demos today. Vista certainly has more movement and intensty in those top 2 dynamics. Any thoughts about using Vista to layer with or replace the legato articulation in BBCSO?


Why not? I love the sound of BBCSO strings and they have some of that warmth and smooth quality and great tone that you get with Vista so I can definitely see them blending well.

One thing surprising me about Vista in my tests is that it doesn't always jump out at you. The strings can take a back seat and the extreme expression and vibrato don't have to take over the whole track. I thought I'd struggle against that more


----------



## Futchibon

Argy Ottas said:


> That's why layering those two brings the magic.
> I can highlight (by tweaking the mics volume) either the detaché from Con Moto or the "slur"-portamento from Vista to taste.
> I bought Vista yesterday and I immediately wanted to test them with Con Moto.
> Came up with this rough speedwriting.



More please!


----------



## Casiquire

Nando Florestan said:


> I bought Vista yesterday. It does sound like the demos. A couple troubles I have:
> 
> - I am either doing something wrong or *the harp* does not respond either to CC1 or to velocity. Not expressive at all. And the pre-attack is deafening, very upsetting. Unusable, in truth.
> - The *violins are fingered legato* only (with a bit of portamento), no way to hear any bow change legato without a bit of a glide. (If you momentarily switch legato off, there's way too much of an attack.) Which makes me worry that Pacific will be the same. The latest cellos demo posted a few pages ago would indicate so. In contrast, Con Moto had no glide.
> - Inconsistently, the *violas* basically have *no glide* in them (although in some intervals you CAN hear it), making them more useful than the violins -- in one aspect. The problem with the violas is the narrow pitch range, which stops short of the A (La) just one octave above the 1st string. The orchestral range of the violas goes to the D above that. CSS reaches the C#. The VSL Violas patch that comes in the Kontakt Standard Library goes to the E above that. To be fair, the range of Soaring Strings is one semitone less than Vista.
> - Reconsistently, the cellos have a bit of glide in them, perhaps 50% of the intervals, very subtle, which is useful for foreground lines. Honestly as a mockup maker I prefer to be in control of such parameters, so using PS libraries becomes a dumb luck game: try it on this line, maybe it will sound glorious, maybe it will be the wrong expression.
> 
> Con Moto should not have been retired, it is more useful to me than Vista. CPU usage is fine in both, but less in Con Moto, which is a recording of more instruments (88666, basically twice as Vista). I have been using Con Moto for my foreground lines when appropriate and relying mostly on CSS for accompaniment and the missing articulations. I cannot switch between CSS and Vista because it's so few instruments. Vista does not blend with Spitfire Chamber Strings at all since the sounds are so different. It's currently hard to find a place for Vista, except as divisi for Con Moto, therefore Con Moto should still be sold.
> 
> What I would like is for Pacific to significantly diminish my library switching, but the reality seems to be shaping differently.
> 
> The Vista sketching patch (full ensemble sustains) is very good.


I'm definitely hearing velocity layers. I've reduced the dynamic range and it's quite clear, though I can't tell how many layers there are.


----------



## Sovereign

Casiquire said:


> I'm definitely hearing velocity layers. I've reduced the dynamic range and it's quite clear, though I can't tell how many layers there are.


There are four, however these layers, especially the two in the lowest dynamics, are somewhat obscured on top of one another due to the way the crossfades are programmed and the copious amount of vibrato. I adjusted the crossfade envelopes personally of the bottom two layers so they are a bit more separated.

Now, where the hell is Pacific? So much waiting..


----------



## Casiquire

Sovereign said:


> There are four, however these layers, especially the two in the lowest dynamics, are somewhat obscured on top of one another due to the way the crossfades are programmed and the copious amount of vibrato. I adjusted the crossfade envelopes personally of the bottom two layers so they are a bit more separated.
> 
> Now, where the hell is Pacific? So much waiting..


Are you talking about the harp?


----------



## Sovereign

Casiquire said:


> Are you talking about the harp?


Ah strings only, overlooked you were discussing the harp instead. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Casiquire

Sovereign said:


> Ah strings only, overlooked you were discussing the harp instead. 🤷‍♂️


No worries! But yeah to my ears the harp has layers too. 

Speaking of string layers, what's going on when the modwheel is all the way down? The strings sound very strange. I can't tell if that's how they were actually played or if the scripting is trying to go to niente and waiting for me to release the note


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> No worries! But yeah to my ears the harp has layers too.
> 
> Speaking of string layers, what's going on when the modwheel is all the way down? The strings sound very strange. I can't tell if that's how they were actually played or if the scripting is trying to go to niente and waiting for me to release the note


Harp is 4 layers 8rr


----------



## Russell Anderson

chapbot said:


> Agreed. This is really Jasper's first comprehensive library. I'm super excited to have all the articulations.


I’m assuming you never got that MSS refund, right? Has 1.1 swayed your opinion at all? The molto, in isolation, sounds good, and the new slooowww legato transitions also sound good in isolation. I still can’t wrap my head around the audio demos I’m hearing from users though, doesn’t help many are outright writing with sustains or in notation software...


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow

Does anyone have the Angry Brass Ensembles? I like the Solos but can’t find much info about the Ensembles.


----------



## Argy Ottas

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Does anyone have the Angry Brass Ensembles? I like the Solos but can’t find much info about the Ensembles.


I have both ensembles and soloists, but I've found myself using mostly the last for layering. 
The ensembles have horns a4, B. bones a3, and trumpets a3 in the same hall as the soloists.
I love both of them!


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow

Argy Ottas said:


> I have both ensembles and soloists, but I've found myself using mostly the last for layering.
> The ensembles have horns a4, B. bones a3, and trumpets a3 in the same hall as the soloists.
> I love both of them!


Thanks very much. I think I’ll pick these up but probably skip the woodwinds. Angry piccolos aren’t as tempting.


----------



## Henning

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Thanks very much. I think I’ll pick these up but probably skip the woodwinds. Angry piccolos aren’t as tempting.


Well, don't anger a piccolo player. The higher octaves can easily take your head clean off. Most players practice with ear protection. Apart from that I purchased angry woodwinds when it came out and I find the flutes and piccolos quite cool. You can do really nice runs and trills with them. Just sayin...


----------



## chapbot

Russell Anderson said:


> I’m assuming you never got that MSS refund, right? Has 1.1 swayed your opinion at all? The molto, in isolation, sounds good, and the new slooowww legato transitions also sound good in isolation. I still can’t wrap my head around the audio demos I’m hearing from users though, doesn’t help many are outright writing with sustains or in notation software...


Lol Oh I wish I could get a refund! I didn't bother to try the update as I just don't like the core tone of the library so why bother. Like you said, the demos are pretty crummy... if I hear something that sounds good I'd try it again.


----------



## soulofsound

Casiquire said:


> One thing surprising me about Vista in my tests is that it doesn't always jump out at you. The strings can take a back seat and the extreme expression and vibrato don't have to take over the whole track. I thought I'd struggle against that more


The jumpiness is the one thing that held me off until now. Thanks for clearing up more of this issue. I may take the plunge after all.


----------



## Russell Anderson

chapbot said:


> Lol Oh I wish I could get a refund! I didn't bother to try the update as I just don't like the core tone of the library so why bother. Like you said, the demos are pretty crummy... if I hear something that sounds good I'd try it again.


Thanks for the reply, and sorry to hear it. It has to be the single most confounding library to me. Some demos are (really) good, many are not, the feature list is mouthwatering, and the wealth of parameters could afford excellent flexibility, or be a headache.

This Black Friday is tough... and that we don’t have any way to try these libraries is pretty inexcusable. At least Performance Samples provides a demo patch.


----------



## Bernard Duc

Russell Anderson said:


> Thanks for the reply, and sorry to hear it. It has to be the single most confounding library to me. Some demos are (really) good, many are not, the feature list is mouthwatering, and the wealth of parameters could afford excellent flexibility, or be a headache.
> 
> This Black Friday is tough... and that we don’t have any way to try these libraries is pretty inexcusable. At least Performance Samples provides a demo patch.


I think it might be better discussing that on the relevant thread as people reading those last comments might be wondering which libraries you're talking about!


----------



## Russell Anderson

Bernard Duc said:


> I think it might be better discussing that on the relevant thread as people reading those last comments might be wondering which libraries you're talking about!


I even withheld some of my comment as a result of that thought. Yes, I’m done here with the MSS discussion.

Back to lamenting my lack of knowing whether to buy Pacific or CSS or Voyage or NSS or what combination of the above. 

If anyone absolutely needs to lose around two thousand USD, like for sure they just need that money gone, please don’t hesitate to let me know. I know how to help.


----------



## Futchibon

Russell Anderson said:


> I even withheld some of my comment as a result of that thought. Yes, I’m done here with the MSS discussion.
> 
> Back to lamenting my lack of knowing whether to buy Pacific or CSS or Voyage or NSS or what combination of the above.
> 
> If anyone absolutely needs to lose around two thousand USD, like for sure they just need that money gone, please don’t hesitate to let me know. I know how to help.


You can't go wrong with Cinecific Voyagville Strings!


----------



## chapbot

Russell Anderson said:


> At least Performance Samples provides a demo patch.


Just another reason to love Jasper and dislike developers who force me to spend hundreds of dollars to discover within 10 minutes I don't like and will never use their product.


----------



## Nando Florestan

Russell Anderson said:


> my lack of knowing whether to buy Pacific or CSS or Voyage or NSS


CSS is the most complete of these for sure. You control the amount of vibrato, you can switch con sordino on and off on all articulations etc. And it sounds great. Your other options are much more limited in scope and should be viewed as complements to a main workhorse like CSS.


----------



## chapbot

Nando Florestan said:


> CSS is the most complete of these for sure. You control the amount of vibrato, you can switch con sordino on and off on all articulations etc. And it sounds great. Your other options are much more limited in scope and should be viewed as complements to a main workhorse like CSS.


Can you control the amount of vibrato or is it on/off?


----------



## Saxer

chapbot said:


> Can you control the amount of vibrato or is it on/off?


It's a switch.


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow

Henning said:


> Well, don't anger a piccolo player. The higher octaves can easily take your head clean off. Most players practice with ear protection. Apart from that I purchased angry woodwinds when it came out and I find the flutes and piccolos quite cool. You can do really nice runs and trills with them. Just sayin...


Yeah, mostly joking. I got Vista and Angry Horns to supplement BHCT and Spitfire Studio Orchestra (add extra legato expressiveness and to beef up the horns). The Spitfire Studio woodwinds aren’t bad, which is mainly why I’m on the fence about whether to get the Angry Woodwinds.


----------



## zwhita

Henning said:


> I purchased angry woodwinds when it came out and I find the flutes and piccolos quite cool. You can do really nice runs and trills with them.


Interesting. I had passed these up due to the limited dynamic and apparently no vibrato, but if they can do those JW runs, I might reconsider.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Nando Florestan said:


> CSS is the most complete of these for sure. You control the amount of vibrato, you can switch con sordino on and off on all articulations etc. And it sounds great. Your other options are much more limited in scope and should be viewed as complements to a main workhorse like CSS.


I’m pretty much in agreement. SCS is presently functioning as my main workhorse library and tends to do fine, and I’ll sometimes layer it with itself and AROOF, but there are some things I’d prefer to use Vista for, and I’m also looking to start layering libraries, so that’s where I’m scratching my chin to a nub. Pacific sounds great, albeit basically full-ensemble Vista with a tamed vibrato, and then I may as well just get CSS since it’ll be cheaper after CSB/CSW... I had a very hard time choosing between SCS and CSS when I first made the purchase, and pretty much envisioned picking up CSS in the future regardless (but a lot can change in a year).

I’m not going to lie, I’m kind of favoring the @dzilizzi strategy here. I like how each of them, even MSS (mostly) and EWHO, sound. I just don’t have the money for that, and the amount of time it’d take to unify the rooms and set up the template, let alone learn the libraries, that’s nothing to shrug at either. My big problem is I find it hard to wait. It’s like this is the last Black Friday there will ever be, ever!

So I really just need to decide on what to go for next, and I think probably the best glue between SCS, AROOF and Vista is going to be CSS (or Pacific...). But it’s a very tough call.


----------



## Nando Florestan

Saxer said:


> It's a switch.


It's not fair to say vibrato is a switch in CSS. Sure, there are only 2 samples -- non vibrato and vibratissimo -- but by using CC2 to control their mix the result is powerful. See this discussion about it.

Spitfire Chamber Strings is full-featured with lots of articulations and you can get sort of a full ensemble sound by using the transposition trick with 3 layers for violins and 2 layers for violas and celli, I have done that myself -- but you pay for it in CPU usage and probably need to freeze tracks to get a full orchestra. CSS is much lighter on CPU and there's no need for the transposition trick.

Violins 2 on SCS have a problem in the shorts, the staccati sound like the spiccati of every other patch, so there is no real staccato for Violins 2. Violas on SCS sound nice in the lower range but out of tune in the upmost range. Also the background noise in SCS was completely unnecessary. Different patches need to have different volumes. Spitfire never finished refining this.

If I were you, I would get CSS because 1) price 2) cohesion 3) blends with SCS. Performance Samples stuff, so far, does not blend with SCS at all, although this might improve in Pacific.

In comparison, I expect Pacific to offer no vibrato control, no control over portamento, no control over fingered or bowed legato (which you already have in SCS). It will be expensive and full of attacks that start after the note being attacked. I hope I am wrong, by the way, because the sonority, as always, is great.

There are lots of people out there using only CSS and making great music in which you don't feel a need for improvement in their string sound.

If you buy CSS you'll probably treat it as your main workhorse and then use SCS for:
- divisi
- special articulations
- runs (the fast legato patches in SCS are better than CSS)
- clarity in fast passages, especially if the final long release in CSS legato bothers you as much as me. CSS is a locked library, there's no way to edit the release of the legato. You can edit the release of sustains, but not legato.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Nando Florestan said:


> It's not fair to say vibrato is a switch in CSS. Sure, there are only 2 samples -- non vibrato and vibratissimo -- but by using CC2 to control their mix the result is powerful. See this discussion about it.
> 
> Spitfire Chamber Strings is full-featured with lots of articulations and you can get sort of a full ensemble sound by using the transposition trick with 3 layers for violins and 2 layers for violas and celli, I have done that myself -- but you pay for it in CPU usage and probably need to freeze tracks to get a full orchestra. CSS is much lighter on CPU and there's no need for the transposition trick.
> 
> Violins 2 on SCS have a problem in the shorts, the staccati sound like the spiccati of every other patch, so there is no real staccato for Violins 2. Violas on SCS sound nice in the lower range but out of tune in the upmost range. Also the background noise in SCS was completely unnecessary. Different patches need to have different volumes. Spitfire never finished refining this.
> 
> If I were you, I would get CSS because 1) price 2) cohesion 3) blends with SCS. Performance Samples stuff, so far, does not blend with SCS at all, although this might improve in Pacific.
> 
> In comparison, I expect Pacific to offer no vibrato control, no control over portamento, no control over fingered or bowed legato (which you already have in SCS). It will be expensive and full of attacks that start after the note being attacked. I hope I am wrong, by the way, because the sonority, as always, is great.
> 
> There are lots of people out there using only CSS and making great music in which you don't feel a need for improvement in their string sound.


I agree wholeheartedly. Most of the best performances of samples that I’ve heard were with CSS, it is a great library. In SCS I’ve run across many problems with the tuning and legato transitions esp. in viola, cello, and Bass Legato Performance in particular is so abysmally bad I’m surprised it was even released at all (Performance Legato however for bass is, for some reason, much better.)

I tend not to like how the transposition trick sounds, to be honest, although the way I’ve gone about it is probably not correct (using the Kontakt default tune/transpose knob and nothing from inside SCS itself aside from neighbor-zone legato to try to alleviate some of the rather jarringly bad transitions). But I do like layering with flautandos and then playing with the mics and imaging. 

Thanks for the replies, I’m pretty comfortably set on CSS after reading this and typing out the whole previous comment. SCS and Vista not blending... we’ll see what I can manage, but I think between the three libraries I’ll be doing some stuff I’m pretty happy with. Doesn’t mean I won’t start layering more on later, haha... But I think I can comfortably enough pass on the new boutique PS libraries during their introductory sales, I’ve got too much on my plate to understand enough to warrant buying either of them.


----------



## Nando Florestan

The point of the transposition trick is this: If you superpose 2 instances of the same sample, what you hear is that one sample with a higher volume. To get a bigger section you need to layer 2 different samples. Since those were not recorded you need to borrow samples from neighbour notes. This can only be done using the transposition trick in the UI. If you don't do this correctly, you will even hear phasey legato transitions. If you do it correctly, it will sound like a larger section.

By the way, I for one anxiously wait to see what Infinite Strings will sound like, since Aaron Venture's results have been so liberating in his 2 existing libraries.


----------



## CT

I think SCS and Vista work nicely together as long as you can handle making Vista sound a little less claustrophobic. CSS just consistently sounds overly dark, dreary, and lifeless when compared to most other string libraries. Damn shame. It can be remedied a bit but only so far.


----------



## Russell Anderson

I’m getting Vista for sure. CSS vs. X is more breaking a little further out of SCS’s rom-com-y/british classical characters to include something, well, more like CSS. There are a number of libraries I think I’d like, but I’ve loved CSS for awhile and it goes well with everything else I own. As time goes by with these I can make other decisions better than I could this year. And I agree CSS is probably going to become the workhorse, but... when I get my new computer I’ll know for sure, I have a feeling I’m going to end up layering the two (or more) more often than not. 

Or, we’ll see how Infinite Strings is  I’ve heard some really, really amazing Infinite Brass demos, and that one I’m actually considering, maybe even this Black Friday. For the winds I’m more fond of CSW. I hope the strings are amazing, and, they might just be! Thanks for clarifying the transposition trick, too.


----------



## eli0s

chapbot said:


> Can you control the amount of vibrato or is it on/off?





Saxer said:


> It's a switch


In CSS the vibrato control is not a switch. The vibrato samples gradually crossfade with CC2. Please note that in very low CC2 values the true legato transitions doesn't work. Instead, you get a basic artificial legato.

In CSSS (Cinematic Studio Solo Strings) the CC2 does work as a switch which most of the times awkwardly crossfade (in a fast and audible manner) between the non vibrato and vibrato samples.


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow

Henning said:


> Apart from that I purchased angry woodwinds when it came out and I find the flutes and piccolos quite cool. You can do really nice runs and trills with them. Just sayin...


Man, I should stay off these boards. Lol. I got the woodwinds (and brass ensemble) and they are excellent. 

I love the tone and playability of everything I’ve bought during this sale. I’ll probably even get violin B before the sale is over. 

If I could start over from scratch, I think I might go a combination of Performance Samples and BHCT for my main orchestral libraries.


----------



## Halfstar

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Man, I should stay off these boards. Lol. I got the woodwinds (and brass ensemble) and they are excellent.
> 
> I love the tone and playability of everything I’ve bought during this sale. I’ll probably even get violin B before the sale is over.
> 
> If I could start over from scratch, I think I might go a combination of Performance Samples and BHCT for my main orchestral libraries.


Yeah, I used the money I was supposed to spend on Pacific to buy the brass ensemble and woodwinds while on sale. The brass especially is a huge tease because of the lack of dynamics and legato, yet it sounds so damn great. If Jasper can release a brass library that's even close to the effort he's put into Pacific strings, I'll be one happy chappy.


----------



## Getsumen

Some info was added on the website for the Strings and Percussion.






Pacific – Strings – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com









Pacific – Percussion – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com






*String Articulations*

*16-12-10-8*
Legato Sustains with Same-Note Repetitions – up to 5 dynamics
Sordino Sustains (no legato) – up to 11 dynamics
Whisper Sustains (not on basses) – up to 5 dynamics
Trills (not on basses) – up to 8 dynamics
Tremolos – up to 9 dynamics
Spiccatos – up to 14 dynamics
Pizzicatos – up to 9 dynamics
Marcatos – up to 5 dynamics
FX – Cluster Risers
FX – Cluster Shorts

Solo Harp
Normale – 8 dynamics
Harmonics – 4 dynamics

3-Violin FFF Legato Overlay
Legato Sustains (FFF only)

Full strings “baked lite patches” on select articulations

*Percussion Info:*

Dynamics: generally extensive, sometimes up to 18-20dyn territory (should have more solid numbers once the library is closer to release).
RR: varies, but not nearly as extensive as the dynamics.

Ensemble
– Six low, mixed-perc cinematic ensembles (different types of drums being played at the same time)
– My attempt at a quasi “marching band”/drum corps ensemble (unsnared/muted snare and tenor drums at 4 tunings total, so essentially 4 pitches across the drums)
– Taiko ensemble
– Snare drum ensemble (snared)
– Tenor drum ensemble (snared, little lower/beefier sounding)
– Stick ensembles (left and right stage)
– Bongo ensemble
– Tom ensemble (two tunings)
– Piatti ensemble
– Anvil ensembles (multiple)
– Sus cymbal ensemble
Solo
– Four individual taikos
– Timpani set 1 (original record, mostly first octave/lower register – more tonal sounding)
– Timpani set 2 (re-record, complete pitches – 2 oct)
– Tenor drum
– Snare drum
– Bass drum – center and side
– Lots of anvils
– Piatti (open and closed)
– Sus cymbal FX



I cut some stuff to just make the info more concise here. I'd recommend visiting the site and reading more on the stuff. There's some additional info on the recording process and other features.


----------



## FireGS

Did we know the pricing before?

Strings: *$499 loyalty intro*, $699 intro, $999 full


----------



## muziksculp

Getsumen said:


> Spiccatos – up to 14 dynamics


Wow ! That's quite a lot of dynamics. for very detailed, and realistic shorts.

I hope they can sound more like Staccato, and Stacctisimo if needed, depending on how they are played/length of the notes.


----------



## RonOrchComp

Getsumen said:


> 16-12-10-8



Dont tell me there is no V2


----------



## muziksculp

RonOrchComp said:


> Dont tell me there is no V2


Yes, there isn't 2nd vlns.


----------



## Futchibon

Getsumen said:


> Sordino Sustains (no legato) – up to 11 dynamics


----------



## lettucehat

RonOrchComp said:


> Dont tell me there is no V2


There is no V2 (confirmed on product page).


----------



## FireGS

Yeah, theres never been a V2, since earrrrrrly on.


----------



## Casiquire

I feel like, in this day and age, it shouldn't be too much to ask for there to at least be a button that does an auto-transposition trick for libraries that don't include a second violin section. I'm overall not always a purist about having them sampled, but I've also had plenty of occasions where I've preferred the way a second violin performed a first violin melody, so having the choice is nice.


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> I feel like, in this day and age, it shouldn't be too much to ask for there to at least be a button that does an auto-transposition trick for libraries that don't include a second violin section. I'm overall not always a purist about having them sampled, but I've also had plenty of occasions where I've preferred the way a second violin performed a first violin melody, so having the choice is nice.


I like your auto-transposition trick button idea for libraries who don't have V2 sections. Pacific Strings would surely benefit from such a button.


----------



## muziksculp

What about the Shorts, are you all convinced that the Spicc. can morph into other short articulations, ie. Stacc. and Staccatisimo depending on how it's played, or the lenght of the notes, ..etc. ?


----------



## Russell Anderson

muziksculp said:


> What about the Shorts, are you all convinced that the Spicc. can morph into other short articulations, ie. Stacc. and Staccatisimo depending on how it's played, or the lenght of the notes, ..etc. ?


Is there a library that can switch articulations based on note length? It could be possible with lookahead, but it would be awkward to have the disparity between articulations with latency on vs. off, and playing shorts with latency... that’d be weird


----------



## muziksculp

Russell Anderson said:


> Is there a library that can switch articulations based on note length? It could be possible with lookahead, but it would be awkward to have the disparity between articulations with latency on vs. off, and playing shorts with latency... that’d be weird


So you think Pacific shorts are restricted to Spicc. , and won't be able to play any other type of shorts ?

I really feel that is a big weakness, but I also remember some early demos, maybe when it was still in Alpha phase of development, that was posted, showing the Spicc. playing more like stacc. or Stacctisimo, and sounded pretty good, and agile.


----------



## Saxer

Spiccs and Staccs get more similar the bigger the section size is.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> So you think Pacific shorts are restricted to Spicc. , and won't be able to play any other type of shorts ?
> 
> I really feel that is a big weakness, but I also remember some early demos, maybe when it was still in Alpha phase of development, that was posted, showing the Spicc. playing more like stacc. or Stacctisimo, and sounded pretty good, and agile.


The shorts have been further refined since I posted my comments and short demo back in May. If you liked the way the shorts sounded then, I am confident you will like them as much or more now.

Also check out Jasper’s spicc demo for a good sense: 



As well as this demo, which shows the versatility of pacific when it comes to shorts lengths:


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> The shorts have been further refined since I posted my comments and short demo back in May. If you liked the way the shorts sounded then, I am confident you will like them as much or more now.


Thanks for the feedback. 

So, maybe some new demos of the refined Shorts would be helpful to evaluate them.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> What about the Shorts, are you all convinced that the Spicc. can morph into other short articulations, ie. Stacc. and Staccatisimo depending on how it's played, or the lenght of the notes, ..etc. ?


I'm agnostic on that. If it's well scripted, i could see it working just fine


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> I'm agnostic on that. If it's well scripted, i could see it working just fine


Audio demos are the only way to prove this. 

But, I'm optimistic.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Audio demos are the only way to prove this.
> 
> But, I'm optimistic.


The demos I posted above (especially the full strings spiccatos improv) is an accurate evaluation of what you'll get with the spicc patch in the final library. That demo shows how they react to the same passage at several different tempos.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Russell Anderson said:


> Is there a library that can switch articulations based on note length?


This has been around for a while. There's a script around you can use to build your own instrument that does that. I suspect Jasper use that in Fluid Short 2. I don't own the lib. but it sounds like it does that.


----------



## FireGS

artinro said:


>



This is interesting, because at softer dynamics, it sounds feathered and like the bow lifts more (like a spiccato), and the more forte it becomes, the more pressure is required. Sound like its switching from maybe soft upstrokes on the bow to harder down strokes, and the harder they are, the more they sound like staccatos than spiccato.


----------



## soulofsound

FireGS said:


> This is interesting, because at softer dynamics, it sounds feathered and like the bow lifts more (like a spiccato), and the more forte it becomes, the more pressure is required. Sound like its switching from maybe soft upstrokes on the bow to harder down strokes, and the harder they are, the more they sound like staccatos than spiccato.


Much seems to depend on the type of bow used : 

I bought Vista today. Really curious how it will blend with other libraries.


----------



## AndyP

Have now ordered Vista. Even though it's not relevant for me in terms of the loyalty discount, I see some benefit for me.
I'm more interested in Voyage than Pacific, but Vista will keep me entertained until then. I'm also very curious how they work together with Con Moto.


----------



## Bernard Duc

FireGS said:


> This is interesting, because at softer dynamics, it sounds feathered and like the bow lifts more (like a spiccato), and the more forte it becomes, the more pressure is required. Sound like its switching from maybe soft upstrokes on the bow to harder down strokes, and the harder they are, the more they sound like staccatos than spiccato.


That's because a loud spiccato is actually physically impossible. Loud spiccato are always staccatos.


----------



## FireGS

Bernard Duc said:


> That's because a loud spiccato is actually physically impossible. Loud spiccato are always staccatos.


Exactly my point! 

But from my understanding, a spiccato involves bouncing off the strings, but a staccato is like a short to really short detache where the bow doesnt lift off the strings.

Either way, with what I hear with Pacific, the louder dynamics definitely sound close (enough?) to staccato.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Bernard Duc said:


> That's because a loud spiccato is actually physically impossible. Loud spiccato are always staccatos.


----------



## Argy Ottas

AndyP said:


> Have now ordered Vista. Even though it's not relevant for me in terms of the loyalty discount, I see some benefit for me.
> I'm more interested in Voyage than Pacific, but Vista will keep me entertained until then. I'm also very curious how they work together with Con Moto.


I have posted a video in page 50 where I am showcasing how Vista and Con Moto sound together!


----------



## Bernard Duc

FireGS said:


> Exactly my point!
> 
> But from my understanding, a spiccato involves bouncing off the strings, but a staccato is like a short to really short detache where the bow doesnt lift off the strings.
> 
> Either way, with what I hear with Pacific, the louder dynamics definitely sound close (enough?) to staccato.


It's actually a bit more complicated since staccato is technically not a bowing technique but simply an indication regarding the duration of the note. Basically spiccato is a type of staccato, but staccato isn't necessarily spiccato. Depending on the music there are techniques such as on string staccato, solid staccato, flying staccato, flying spiccato, ricochet, etc. (the exact names can vary) that will be used in different contexts.


----------



## muziksculp

Staccato bowing is on the bow, no bouncing. Spicc. is a bounced bow action, so the contact with the bow happens when the bow falls from off the bow down to the string, so it's a short scratch then bounces back up off the bow, very different from on the bow stacc.

I wonder if Voyage will have stacc. and spicc. ?


----------



## Henning

In the end it counts how it sounds. From what I remember from the alpha the marcatos have different dynamics and can be played shorter or longer. I personally think they would be good enough to be used as staccatos.


----------



## RonOrchComp

Ridiculous and unacceptable to not have 2nd violins. 

The string choir is unbalanced, because there are the right amount of VCB, but not V2

No-buy from me.


----------



## muziksculp

Having Pre-Ordered ISW's upcoming TSS, which is a much more complete Strings library for much less $, I'm a bit undecided about purchasing Pacific.

I need to hear more demos of Pacific Strings, not mixed with other orchestral instruments, i.e NO Brass, or woodwinds, Just pure Pacific Strings demos, especially with more shorts, a V2 emulation via Transposition trick, more demos of the Sustained Sordino, It would be nice to have a simulated Sordino option for the Legato articulations. 

Also looking forward to know more about what Voyage will offer, I might go for Voyage instead if it has more articulations included.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

RonOrchComp said:


> Ridiculous and unacceptable to not have 2nd violins.
> 
> The string choir is unbalanced, because there are the right amount of VCB, but not V2
> 
> No-buy from me.


Don't you think ridiculous might too strong a word here?


----------



## muziksculp

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Don't you think ridiculous might too strong a word here?


I think given the regular price of Pacific Strings is $999. It's a valid comment.


----------



## lettucehat

Transposition trick, pan, volume/spatialization, and move on with my life. My personal recipe for working happily with these ridiculous no-violin-II-having Performance Samples libraries.


----------



## Sarah Mancuso

It's also worth noting that the transposition trick is completely unnecessary unless you're having V1 and V2 play the same part in unison (in which case you could typically just leave out the V2 track entirely for a similar enough end result).

I don't own any PS strings libraries, but the lack of dedicated V2 recordings has never been any issue for me at all in other libraries.


----------



## Henning

Bernard Duc said:


> That's because a loud spiccato is actually physically impossible. Loud spiccato are always staccatos.


Depends on what you mean by loud. But you can get pretty loud especially on double stops.


----------



## chapbot

RonOrchComp said:


> Ridiculous and unacceptable to not have 2nd violins.
> 
> The string choir is unbalanced, because there are the right amount of VCB, but not V2
> 
> No-buy from me.


LOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## Bernard Duc

Henning said:


> Depends on what you mean by loud. But you can get pretty loud especially on double stops.


What I mean is that when we see in sessions scores with a "spiccato" ostinato that's supposed to be played fortissimo, I know that they composer didn't actually mean spiccato, but wrote that simply because that's how the patch was called. Spiccato can get decently loud, but it won't work for this loud agressive music.

In real life, string players will use the whole spectrum from on the string to true spiccato depending on the context, and they will often end up doing something that's in between.


----------



## Futchibon

RonOrchComp said:


> Ridiculous and unacceptable to not have 2nd violins.
> 
> The string choir is unbalanced, because there are the right amount of VCB, but not V2
> 
> No-buy from me.


Another purist!  

I think you might be missing the point of Performance Samples - Jasper is giving us unique sounds and wonderful playability; Vista can sound much biger than other chamber strings out there, you should base your decision on the sounds and demos and not the section sizes.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

You can't compose good music without a 2nd string section everybody knows that. ...I'm not trolling, Me? I'd never do that. 

P.S. Just having a bit of fun Ron.


----------



## handz

Sarah Mancuso said:


> It's also worth noting that the transposition trick is completely unnecessary unless you're having V1 and V2 play the same part in unison (in which case you could typically just leave out the V2 track entirely for a similar enough end result).
> 
> I don't own any PS strings libraries, but the lack of dedicated V2 recordings has never been any issue for me at all in other libraries.


Exactly!!!


----------



## Nando Florestan

LASS used to have Violins 2, separately recorded. In one of the updates, the library got smaller as they stopped including those samples... in favor of the transposition trick! But it was well implemented, on a patch called Violins 2, no further user setup required. The panning was right etc.

LASS also had round-robin legatos. Just 2x, and also using the transposition trick, but it worked well for your alternating accompaniment figures.

We don't need Violins 2 to be separately recorded, but it's so nice when they are provided to us.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Nando Florestan said:


> LASS used to have Violins 2, separately recorded. In one of the updates, the library got smaller as they stopped including those samples... in favor of the transposition trick! But it was well implemented, on a patch called Violins 2, no further user setup required. The panning was right etc.
> 
> LASS also had round-robin legatos. Just 2x, and also using the transposition trick, but it worked well for your alternating accompaniment figures.
> 
> We don't need Violins 2 to be separately recorded, but it's so nice when they are provided to us.


You know why the dropped the second recording? I'm guessing it wasn't as good as the 1st one?

edited: that's the thing with a second section isn't it? It better be as good and as consistent as the 1st one or else it's all for nothing isn't it? might as well put all your effort on 1 section and transpose?


----------



## Batuer

Considering the content of Pacific and no 2nd vln, regular price $999 is kind of too high. Even Some other full orchestral sample libraries with woodwinds/brass/percussion wouldn’t cost $999.


----------



## Evans

It is a fair chunk of change, for sure. For about the same budget, the _entire_ VSL Synchron Percussion line doesn't run much more. 

That said, it doesn't have a V2, either.


----------



## Zanshin

It's a good thing no one is twisting (anyone's) tits to buy this. 

In fact the website actually trys to dissuade you when you go to buy something lol.


----------



## muziksculp

Are Voyage Strings expected to be out by the end of 2021 ?

The Performance Samples Voyage Strings page mentions : Setting Sail by Late 2021, I'm hoping this hasn't changed. I'm really liking the way Voyage Strings sound.

Maybe a Voyage Strings thread would be a good idea, to discuss it in more detail, and we are not too far from late 2021.

*NOTE :* *Voyage Strings* Discussion Thread Created

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/performance-samples-voyage-strings.115712/


----------



## Henning

Bernard Duc said:


> What I mean is that when we see in sessions scores with a "spiccato" ostinato that's supposed to be played fortissimo, I know that they composer didn't actually mean spiccato, but wrote that simply because that's how the patch was called. Spiccato can get decently loud, but it won't work for this loud agressive music.
> 
> In real life, string players will use the whole spectrum from on the string to true spiccato depending on the context, and they will often end up doing something that's in between.


I agree that the techniques tend to merge the faster and louder you get. Also depends on the players. I had sessions where the cellists and bassists where so fast and loud it was really punk rock.


----------



## Nando Florestan

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> You know why the dropped the second recording? I'm guessing it wasn't as good as the 1st one?


I don't know. Maybe it wasn't as BAD as all the other sections. At the time they were super proud of all the 12-year-olds that were recorded for LASS. All the strength of the library came from post-production...

Now they have MSS which is much better recorded but sounds kind of uninteresting to me. No magic. This is why we keep waiting for a comprehensive library from PS...


----------



## NYC Composer

12 year olds? Huh?


----------



## RonOrchComp

lettucehat said:


> Transposition trick, pan, volume/spatialization, and move on with my life.



That's BS
To much stretching of samples, more work, and more time wasted. Still a no-buy.


----------



## Geocranium

RonOrchComp said:


> That's BS
> To much stretching of samples, more work, and more time wasted. Still a no-buy.


And that's your prerogative. A lot of people here don't really mind though. Frankly I don't think I could discern the difference between just violins 1 vs tutti violins 1 + 2. Or having a violins 1 + 2 playing harmonies together vs just playing 2 notes on the violins 1 track. If it sounds good, it sounds good.


----------



## ism

Geocranium said:


> And that's your prerogative. A lot of people here don't really mind though. Frankly I don't think I could discern the difference between just violins 1 vs tutti violins 1 + 2. Or having a violins 1 + 2 playing harmonies together vs just playing 2 notes on the violins 1 track. If it sounds good, it sounds good.



Yep, I think we’re well into “I’m ok, you’re ok” territory by this point.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

Regarding the lack of Second Violins, Legato-Sordino in Pacific Strings, I thought the same thing was addressed in Audio Imperia's *Areia Strings*, the GUI has three buttons in the lower part of the interface, that can enable Sordino Filter, 2nd Vlns, and Niente. This would be a perfect solution for Pacific. 

I thought this would be useful to post. 

Here is a pic of Areia's GUI .

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## handz

Batuer said:


> Considering the content of Pacific and no 2nd vln, regular price $999 is kind of too high. Even Some other full orchestral sample libraries with woodwinds/brass/percussion wouldn’t cost $999.


Yep its a cost that was normal 10-15years ago for a lib. Now it’s a lot. 

Honestly, I really do not get the direction of Performance Samples now. 
Releasing two full orchestra sample libraries at once. What am I missing about Voyage vs Pacific?


----------



## Futchibon

handz said:


> Honestly, I really do not get the direction of Performance Samples now.
> Releasing two full orchestra sample libraries at once. What am I missing about Voyage vs Pacific?


Pacific is symphonic, Voyage AFAIK will be smaller. Voyage more comprehensive - and no doubt considerably pricier. If Jasper writes 'Boutique pricing' it will be boutique pricing! And I doubt they'll be released at once, I imagine Voyage will be well into 2022.

I LOVE the direction PS is going, Jasper is a sampling genius and also a great composer. I alternate between admiration and jealousy!


----------



## handz

Futchibon said:


> Pacific is symphonic, Voyage AFAIK will be smaller. Voyage more comprehensive - and no doubt considerably pricier. If Jasper writes 'Boutique pricing' it will be boutique pricing! And I doubt they'll be released at once, I imagine Voyage will be well into 2022.
> 
> I LOVE the direction PS is going, Jasper is a sampling genius and also a great composer. I alternate between admiration and jealousy!


Jasper is amazing composer and i love his stuff. But this seems to be both really expensive which I thought wasnt really the case with Performance Samples stuff before. If Pacific is 500-999 per module - and voyage will be even more than ouch 🥲 But can’t wait for them both


----------



## Futchibon

handz said:


> Jasper is amazing composer and i love his stuff. But this seems to be both really expensive which I thought wasnt really the case with Performance Samples stuff before. If Pacific is 500-999 per module - and voyage will be even more than ouch 🥲 But can’t wait for them both


The other sections of Pacific will be considerably less than the strings, thank goodness!


----------



## Guffy

If i remember right the individual sections in Con Moto was like $200 each. Not too far off Pacific strings. Seems more intimidating when you buy it all at once maybe. I think the loyalty and intro discount is quite nice too. Of course, it's hard to judge whether or not the price is justified before actually seeing/hearing what the library has to offer..


----------



## Werty

Regarding saving money, I think you can mix Miroire+Vista and you are set for life. Miroire is great and not expensive, Vista is still the star of the show. This is the best way to dodge pricy Pacific or Voyage.


----------



## Loerpert

Werty said:


> Regarding saving money, I think you can mix Miroire+Vista and you are set for life. Miroire is great and not expensive, Vista is still the star of the show. This is the best way to dodge pricy Pacific or Voyage.



Miroire is a very specific library. I don't see how it would function as a workhorse for symphonic stuff. Depends on the style you're aiming at of course


----------



## star.keys

Sorry saving multiple pages worth reading.. When is this being released?


----------



## Evans

star.keys said:


> Sorry saving multiple pages worth reading.. When is this being released?


No one is quite sure. Soon-ish? Maybe after the current sale?


----------



## Werty

Loerpert said:


> Miroire is a very specific library. I don't see how it would function as a workhorse for symphonic stuff. Depends on the style you're aiming at of course


I am more concerned about what sounds great, rather than what sounds symphonic


----------



## Living Fossil

Geocranium said:


> And that's your prerogative. A lot of people here don't really mind though. Frankly I don't think I could discern the difference between just violins 1 vs tutti violins 1 + 2. Or having a violins 1 + 2 playing harmonies together vs just playing 2 notes on the violins 1 track. If it sounds good, it sounds good.


The most bothering part with not having second violins is where you have individual lines that occasionally meet in unisono (which is quite common in lots of scenarios).

Personally, i totally hate the basic transposition trick since it can still result in ugly phasing in situations where you use e.g. 2nds as an interval.
For that reason i prefer to leave to duplicated V1 as they are and use the Pitchbend data to transpose the notes in situations where a unisono would occur.
But it's much easier to have V1 and V2....


----------



## ism

I’ve been experimenting with Tallinn and Vista … so Vista with Miroire actually sounds very interesting.


----------



## Evans

Absolutely agreed with VI-C's resident fossil. My strings needs are pretty limited, yet it's something I've run into before for the exact circumstance.

It's a frustrating limitation, as with the compressed range of the AR1 "Selections" releases. Even I've had a few moments of, "Well, I guess I won't be writing what we wanted here, unless I use an entirely different library."

At that point, why bother with such a purchase? I'm not using these like a synth. I'm using them like strings. As someone who has never bowed a darn thing, they're hard enough to write for. I'd pay far more if I didn't have to find technical workarounds to service artistic expression.

And yes, I know that the responses might just be, "don't buy it and move on." But that's like accepting someone getting exclusive rights to a book series you like, and making a less than ideal film series out of it. You can be annoyed as a hopeful fan of previous works, right?


----------



## ism

Evans said:


> moments of, "Well, I guess I won't be writing what we wanted here, unless I use an entirely different library."


Yep. I'd argue that unless you're writing in precisely the mode that a library is optimized for (generally a media space of expressiveness), that this is experience is central to writing with samples.



Evans said:


> I'd pay far more if I didn't have to find technical workarounds to service artistic expression.



And I'd further argue that. "technical workarounds to service artistic expression" is what sample libraries are. Kind of quite fundamentally.

My experience is that it's psychologically healthier to just embrace this. Much less bashing you head into the screen. The amazing think about sample libraries isn't that sometimes they don't work well as an approximation for real performances. It's that sometimes, occasionally, within very narrow circumstances, they do.


----------



## Evans

ism said:


> My experience is that it's psychologically healthier to just embrace this. Much less bashing you head into the screen. The amazing think about sample libraries isn't that sometimes they don't work well as an approximation for real performances. It's that sometimes, occasionally, within very narrow circumstances, they do.


I somewhat agree with this. Rephrasing it in a way I've used before, "don't treat sampled violins like violins; treat them as an entirely new instrument." Except many developers really do strive for "realism," so that goes out the window a bit. And it's not like we're asking for something wildly new here. Just a proper V2.

That said, Jasper is probably the most open of any developer as to the limitations of his libraries, so there's no real problem here beyond thinking, "darn, would've been awesome(r) if this was there."


----------



## Halfstar

It seems a great deal of people on this forum are really wanting 2nd violins. If that's the case, couldn't we set up some sort of poll/petition and send it to Jasper kindly requesting it as a future add-on that could potentially be attached to the library in the near-ish future? I personally see the lack of 2nd violins as a slight inconvenience that I'm happy to work around but it appears as though a lot of people feel differently. Perhaps we should wait for the library to come out first, see if it causes any issues then consider the poll/petition. I'd be willing to pay a bit more for 2nds (despite the price) just to get the ball rolling on it.


----------



## gst98

Halfstar said:


> It seems a great deal of people on this forum are really wanting 2nd violins. If that's the case, couldn't we set up some sort of poll/petition and send it to Jasper kindly requesting it as a future add-on that could potentially be attached to the library in the near-ish future? I personally see the lack of 2nd violins as a slight inconvenience that I'm happy to work around but it appears as though a lot of people feel differently. Perhaps we should wait for the library to come out first, see if it causes any issues then consider the poll/petition. I'd be willing to pay a bit more for 2nds (despite the price) just to get the ball rolling on it.


Well, in fairness I think it's a very small minority who are very keen on the 2nd vlns thing. Most of his customers aren't really on vi-control and they're largely pros doing trailer music, or things in that vein. 

The arguments have already been made about it only being an issue when writing unison lines (in which there are workarounds), but it is still worth mentioning that not only do most of the people getting pacific will already have vista, or con moto, or both, but pacific includes an extra overlay patch too.

Additionally, most articulations have more dynamics layers than most libraries vlns 1+2 combined. For example, Berlin only has 3 dyn on spic and pizz, here we have 14 and 9 respectively. Just play a different dyn layer and there are your 2nds. All the recording time that would have gone into vlns 2 was put into the other sections so they have so much more depth. 

So yeah matching 2nds would be nice but would you really want to have sacrificed dynamics for it? and if further content was to be recorded, would you prefer 2nds? or staccatos, muted articulations or round-robin legatos? I know what I'd choose...


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Seems like Voyage will be a better fit for those who want 2nd violins. Maybe you want to wait for that? It will have more articualtions too.


----------



## Casiquire

ism said:


> I’ve been experimenting with Tallinn and Vista … so Vista with Miroire actually sounds very interesting.


Interesting choice but it makes a ton of sense because the ambience is kind of similar.

As far as second violins, i want to be clear about my stance, which is that I'm fine with them not having been recorded and I'm not arguing that they necessarily need to be recorded. My feeling is that using libraries is a series of compromises and inconveniences and the more inconveniences that a dev can cut out, the better. I also see the hidden benefit of a second violin section with different players providing you with another voice to try a melody out. Another reason i love divisi libraries so much! But it isn't a deal breaker for me; it just may influence which library I'll reach for first


----------



## YahmezTV

Regarding second violins and Velocity layers (IIRC up to 14 in some cases); if each velocity layer is in fact a unique recording i wonder if its possible to just have the second violins trigger the velocity layer below that of the first violins... Just not sure how much the timbre varies from layer to layer, and you might run into a problem using articulations that were recorded with fewer velocity layers, making it more convenient to just transpose.


----------



## Casiquire

YahmezTV said:


> Regarding second violins and Velocity layers (IIRC up to 14 in some cases); if each velocity layer is in fact a unique recording i wonder if its possible to just have the second violins trigger the velocity layer below that of the first violins... Just not sure how much the timbre varies from layer to layer, and you might run into a problem using articulations that were recorded with fewer velocity layers, making it more convenient to just transpose.


A person could go through the effort, but the software can't do that. The second violin patch would have to know everything that's being played by the first violin patch and respond to it in real time


----------



## ism

Casiquire said:


> Interesting choice but it makes a ton of sense because the ambience is kind of similar.


Not for purists, I would say


----------



## AndyP

Casiquire said:


> A person could go through the effort, but the software can't do that. The second violin patch would have to know everything that's being played by the first violin patch and respond to it in real time


This is a good approach to develop a new AI. But wait, I think they are already working on it somewhere.


----------



## CT

You could always put a MIDI modifier (that's the Logic name, not sure the equivalent in other DAWs) on the "2nd" violin tracks which scales the dynamic controls down a bit for that channel. You'd need to set the values accordingly, and on separate tracks, based on how many dynamics are in a patch of course, but with Pacific there is enough dynamic range to make it practical.

It's an interesting idea, and certainly one of a number of possible ways to work around the absence of a real second section in those moments when you need a unison between the two. In other moments, a bit of panning to seat them apart from the 1sts should be all that's necessary. Yes it's two more players than would be typical, just bear that in mind and hold back a bit if you're worried it'll upset balances.


----------



## holywilly

The try pack is up! The best thing is that you can adjust the note offset value, the Cello spiccato sounds juicy!!!


----------



## holywilly

axb312 said:


> Where? Link pls...


On the Pacific product page, just right above the SoundCloud playlist.


----------



## FireGS

Interesting to note the difference. The spic patch sounds like theres more hall in the tail, but the sordino patch has a much tighter tail.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

YahmezTV said:


> Regarding second violins and Velocity layers (IIRC up to 14 in some cases); if each velocity layer is in fact a unique recording i wonder if its possible to just have the second violins trigger the velocity layer below that of the first violins... Just not sure how much the timbre varies from layer to layer, and you might run into a problem using articulations that were recorded with fewer velocity layers, making it more convenient to just transpose.


Maybe make 2 more section by splittings the velocities into 2 instruments with 7 velocity each?


----------



## CT

FireGS said:


> Interesting to note the difference. The spic patch sounds like theres more hall in the tail, but the sordino patch has a much tighter tail.


Try pushing the pitch bend wheel up....


----------



## ism

Playing with the sordino patch now ... and there is a *lot* to love about this. 

The closest think I have to it is Tundra's sordino, which is 2 dynamic layers, but can still give some lovely and lyrical arcs. 

So it's absolutely fascinating to see the different all these other dynamic layers make. Pacific starts at the edge of silence ... and just keeps going. 

Some really wonderful, never before explored in the sample library world, worlds of lyrical con sord opening here before our eyes.


----------



## AEF

It sounds really nice and is very very nice to play. I may be sold now. Wish he recorded the Sordino as legatos!


----------



## ism

Noodle!



Note that I've really cranked up the volume so you can hear all the noise and detail at the "edge of silence" (to coin a phrase). So the loudest this gets is probably only 2/3 of the maximum dynamics.

Gorgeous stuff, I've never encountered anything remotely so dynamic in a con sord.

I've also added some Valhalla cathedral long tail (no shot reflections) reverb, as is my custom, which I feel adds some space without damaging the spatiality of the tree mics.


----------



## gst98

ism said:


> Noodle!
> 
> 
> 
> Note that I've really cranked up the volume so you can hear all the noise and detail at the "edge of silence" (to coin a phrase). So the loudest this gets is probably only 2/3 of the maximum dynamics.
> 
> Gorgeous stuff, I've never encountered anything remotely so dynamic in a con sord.
> 
> I've also added some Valhalla cathedral long tail (no shot reflections) reverb, as is my custom, which I feel adds some space without damaging the spatiality of the tree mics.



Yeah the CS really is like tundra. and there is still the whipser patch to go as well! The spiccatos are so dynamic as well


----------



## Sovereign

The shorts sound really great, and the sordino sustains are just awesome. However, the releases on the sordino patch are louder than the sustains and stand out. Anyone else experiencing this?

Edit: NM, updating Kontakt fixed it.


----------



## muziksculp

I just noticed the free Pacific Strings patches are available on their site. Will download later today.

Can someone post a bit of audio showing the free shorts patch. 

Thanks.


----------



## ism

muziksculp said:


> Can someone post a bit of audio showing the free shorts patch.


Check out Jose's "improvisation":





__





Pacific Strings Freebie


Did a little 16 bar improv with the freebee patches for Pacific strings. Just the Vlc spicc and the vln 1 sus muted patches. I like the tone of the library very nice sound. Very musical and hardly requires any additional reverb though I put some in just to add a little. Little light...




vi-control.net


----------



## Snarf

Here's another brief audio example of the Pacific celli shorts:

The sound is out of the box (so volume is low). Default mics (both, close, AB), no pitchwheel, 200 bpm, 90% quantized. The velocities are more exaggerated to experiment with the full dynamic range. I've attached the midi as well, in case anyone is interested/wants to do their own comparison.


----------



## Pianolando

Well yeah, that sounds extremely good to my ears. Not as sure about the sordidness legato. But will download and try it!


----------



## chapbot

Snarf said:


> Here's another brief audio example of the Pacific celli shorts:
> 
> The sound is out of the box (so volume is low). Default mics (both, close, AB), no pitchwheel, 200 bpm, 90% quantized. The velocities are more exaggerated to experiment with the full dynamic range. I've attached the midi as well, in case anyone is interested/wants to do their own comparison.


Those close mics sound delicious 😍


----------



## muziksculp

Snarf said:


> Here's another brief audio example of the Pacific celli shorts:
> 
> The sound is out of the box (so volume is low). Default mics (both, close, AB), no pitchwheel, 200 bpm, 90% quantized. The velocities are more exaggerated to experiment with the full dynamic range. I've attached the midi as well, in case anyone is interested/wants to do their own comparison.


Just for comparison, Here is OT: Berlin Symphonic Strings Celli *Spicc*. demo using your midi data. I just reduced the velocity of the last chord set a little bit.

View attachment Berlin Sym Str Spicc 2.mp3


----------



## gst98

muziksculp said:


> Just for comparison, Here is OT: Berlin Symphonic Strings Celli *Spicc*. demo using your midi data. I just reduced the velocity of the last chord set a little bit.
> 
> View attachment 59839


Those do have a really nice sound (although a very different style) but I don't think I'll be able to go back to not having all these extra dynamics. BSS seems to be biased to the louder side.

Have you got a lot of the close mics dialled in on this one? also can you hear at 0:29, almost sounds a bit machine-gun like.


----------



## ism

gst98 said:


> but I don't think I'll be able to go back to not having all these extra dynamics.


Yes, congratulations Performance samples for ruining (pre-pacific) sample libraries for us!


----------



## muziksculp

gst98 said:


> Those do have a really nice sound (although a very different style) but I don't think I'll be able to go back to not having all these extra dynamics. BSS seems to be biased to the louder side.
> 
> Have you got a lot of the close mics dialled in on this one? also can you hear at 0:29, almost sounds a bit machine-gun like.


Yes, I have two of the close mics enabled. Yes, I hear a bit of the machine-gun effect at 0:29 to the end, but it might be because the notes all the same length, I just used the midi file posted above. I think it would sound very different if the notes were not equal length, also the velocities are very close to each other, so not much variation.


----------



## muziksculp

I can hear the more detailed dynamics in Pacific's Spicc's compared to BSS. Although I like the more edgy/bite in BSS, which Pacific doesn't seem to have.


----------



## gst98

ism said:


> Yes, congratulations Performance samples for (pre-pacific) ruining sample libraries for us!


There's no going back now!



muziksculp said:


> I can hear the more detailed dynamics in Pacific's Spicc's compared to BSS. Although I like the more edgy/bite in BSS, which Pacific doesn't seem to have.


Yeah, they're a very different style. With the very close mix you have there it reminds me of cinestrings spicc, but tighter and more aggressive. Sounds very much like the later Pirates films. Pacific is the most symphonic string library I've heard to date, really shows how things like SSS are mic'd and recorded like films.


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> Those do have a really nice sound (although a very different style) but I don't think I'll be able to go back to not having all these extra dynamics. BSS seems to be biased to the louder side.
> 
> Have you got a lot of the close mics dialled in on this one? also can you hear at 0:29, almost sounds a bit machine-gun like.


I'm not hearing a machine gun, just consistency. I've noticed a funny thing happen. When sampling was new, you only had one-shot shorts so the machine gun effect was intense. Then developers started using round robins and devs overcorrected. Now, samples are *less* precise than their live counterparts and there will be times when I listen to live players and the thought "oh they should've used a higher or lower velocity layer for that note" crosses my mind lmao. That example sounds pretty good to me. Near identical sounds but not digitally identical. Live players try their hardest to sound consistent, and sample libraries try their hardest not to!


----------



## Russell Anderson

I am converted. These shorts. Wow. I hope there’s a special Voyage loyalty discount for Pacific owners, but if not, so be it, what a sound. I wanted to let this library go but the sound is downright compelling. Holy cow.


----------



## CT




----------



## Henning

Casiquire said:


> I'm not hearing a machine gun, just consistency. I've noticed a funny thing happen. When sampling was new, you only had one-shot shorts so the machine gun effect was intense. Then developers started using round robins and devs overcorrected. Now, samples are *less* precise than their live counterparts and there will be times when I listen to live players and the thought "oh they should've used a higher or lower velocity layer for that note" crosses my mind lmao. That example sounds pretty good to me. Near identical sounds but not digitally identical. Live players try their hardest to sound consistent, and sample libraries try their hardest not to!


Personally I think that sample libraries actually need to be used in a way that kind of overcompensates for their deficiencies. The easiest things on a real instrument can be quite daunting to fake with sample libs. So I often feel the need to draw the ear away from these deficiencies. Using over the top vibrato or hamnering spiccatos, etc. One really needs to overdo, overemphasize stuff to make a sample piece believable at all. Most of the time I use at least one real instrument in a track to make it sound alive.


----------



## Russell Anderson




----------



## Casiquire

Henning said:


> Personally I think that sample libraries actually need to be used in a way that kind of overcompensates for their deficiencies. The easiest things on a real instrument can be quite daunting to fake with sample libs. So I often feel the need to draw the ear away from these deficiencies. Using over the top vibrato or hamnering spiccatos, etc. One really needs to overdo, overemphasize stuff to make a sample piece believable at all. Most of the time I use at least one real instrument in a track to make it sound alive.


From these forums i gather that using a live recording on a track to trick the ear into thinking everything is live is something a pro move. And it doesn't need to be the orchestra; it can be almost anything. If i can add a (super basic because I'm no prodigy) line i can play on my harp or strum on my guitar, i will.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Casiquire said:


> From these forums i gather that using a live recording on a track to trick the ear into thinking everything is live is something a pro move. And it doesn't need to be the orchestra; it can be almost anything. If i can add a (super basic because I'm no prodigy) line i can play on my harp or strum on my guitar, i will.


Nothing like some chair scrapes and feet to impart the sense of a hall of living, breathing session musicians


----------



## Sovereign

Polishing the legatos sure is taking a long time, has it become a november release?


----------



## N.Caffrey

I tried the freebie. Bloody hell, really really great stuff!


----------



## Henning

Casiquire said:


> From these forums i gather that using a live recording on a track to trick the ear into thinking everything is live is something a pro move. And it doesn't need to be the orchestra; it can be almost anything. If i can add a (super basic because I'm no prodigy) line i can play on my harp or strum on my guitar, i will.


Definitely. This is something that I learned from Tilman Sillescu some twenty years ago. I remember he told me that he doubled a sampled piccolo part with a tin whistle  It made a real difference and since then I have always incorporated live instruments into my pieces. Of course it helps to play some yourself  But I'm really a fanatic for instrumental colours and for the last couple of years my budget went more into real instruments than sample libs. But I'm digressing here. This should all be about Jasper's lib.


----------



## Evans

Does Jasper have a typical lead time between his freebie download and actual product launch?


----------



## Bernard Duc

Casiquire said:


> I'm not hearing a machine gun, just consistency. I've noticed a funny thing happen. When sampling was new, you only had one-shot shorts so the machine gun effect was intense. Then developers started using round robins and devs overcorrected. Now, samples are *less* precise than their live counterparts and there will be times when I listen to live players and the thought "oh they should've used a higher or lower velocity layer for that note" crosses my mind lmao. That example sounds pretty good to me. Near identical sounds but not digitally identical. Live players try their hardest to sound consistent, and sample libraries try their hardest not to!


Actually if you listen well to the Berlin Strings example you can hear at 28-29 s that there is a strange resonance that is exactly the same with every repeated note, and it's what creates the machine gun effect in this case. My guess would be that the attack has a round robin but OT is using the same release every time, and this one has an unwanted resonance.

And yes, live players try to be consistent, but there is a big difference between consistent and without variation. Live players will never play two notes the same way, especially with ensemble strings. The best developers will capture this musicality without sacrificing any of the consistency.


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> I'm not hearing a machine gun, just consistency. I've noticed a funny thing happen. When sampling was new, you only had one-shot shorts so the machine gun effect was intense. Then developers started using round robins and devs overcorrected. Now, samples are *less* precise than their live counterparts and there will be times when I listen to live players and the thought "oh they should've used a higher or lower velocity layer for that note" crosses my mind lmao. That example sounds pretty good to me. Near identical sounds but not digitally identical. Live players try their hardest to sound consistent, and sample libraries try their hardest not to!


I was only talking about two notes at 29 seconds in. There are two notes that sound like repeated samples.

There is something more natural feeling to me in the Pacific version thought still. I imagine it's the taken-from-phrasing that does it. It just has more flow than BSS. Sometimes I think spiccs are sounding good, and then you listen to real phrases played in things like symphonic motions, ark 3 or century ostinato and you hear the flow that is missing from normal spiccatos patches - which are basically a dissected performance stuck back together again. Pacific is a nice in-between, and a vast improvement over the techniques in fluid shorts I.


----------



## chapbot

Evans said:


> Does Jasper have a typical lead time between his freebie download and actual product launch?


No.


----------



## Casiquire

Bernard Duc said:


> Actually if you listen well to the Berlin Strings example you can hear at 28-29 s that there is a strange resonance that is exactly the same with every repeated note, and it's what creates the machine gun effect in this case. My guess would be that the attack has a round robin but OT is using the same release every time, and this one has an unwanted resonance.
> 
> And yes, live players try to be consistent, but there is a big difference between consistent and without variation. Live players will never play two notes the same way, especially with ensemble strings. The best developers will capture this musicality without sacrificing any of the consistency.


Hmm you may be right, i didn't hear that when i was listening but i was listening for a repeated staccato.

Almost no dev gets that balance right in my experience! Though a few modern libraries are getting better


----------



## Bernard Duc

Casiquire said:


> Almost no dev gets that balance right in my experience! Though a few modern libraries are getting better


I don't think there is necessarily one good balance, there are different approaches that will speak to different people. But some devs are definitely better at preserving both musicality and consistency than others. The musicality part is obvious to the trained ear, even just listening to demos, the consistency part is something that can only be tested by using the library.


----------



## Go To 11

I did a quick 3 minute walkthrough of both freebie patches for anyone who wants to watch/ doesn't have time to load the patches up themselves! Took a look at dynamics and mic positions and played with the sample start time for the spiccato patch too.


----------



## Fitz

I bought a library on the sale several hours ago and haven't received any download code yet. Is this typical for performance samples?


----------



## Sovereign

Fitz said:


> I bought a library on the sale several hours ago and haven't received any download code yet. Is this typical for performance samples?


No should be automated.


----------



## artinro

Fitz said:


> I bought a library on the sale several hours ago and haven't received any download code yet. Is this typical for performance samples?


Fitz, just send Jasper an email at support (at) performancesamples.com. On occasion, the auto link delivery doesn’t go through. He’ll sort you out.


----------



## Bernard Duc

Fitz said:


> I bought a library on the sale several hours ago and haven't received any download code yet. Is this typical for performance samples?


Have you checked your spam folder?


----------



## muziksculp

Go To 11 said:


> I did a quick 3 minute walkthrough of both freebie patches for anyone who wants to watch/ doesn't have time to load the patches up themselves! Took a look at dynamics and mic positions and played with the sample start time for the spiccato patch too.



Hi @Go To 11 ,

Thanks for making the video. I was kind of lazy to download the free demo. So, I got a much better idea of how the Spicc. Celli sound by watching your video, and how the Sample Start changes the way they sound. The Vlns Sord sound wonderful, I just wish there was a legato sordino for all the sections, or even a simulated Sord via EQ.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## chapbot

The Sordino is lovely. I played and got lost in it... realistic and emotional tone. Spiccs are also good but wow that Sordino! If you're broke and are hunting for freebies this is a patch you could really use. I had no interest in this library as I prefer dry poppy stuff but the thread kept popping up a few months ago so I listened to some demos. Those demos!!!! I'm listening to "I'll Remember This Life" right now. How coud you not love this sound?! How could you not get a second mortgage to aquire this sound


----------



## Go To 11

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Go To 11 ,
> 
> Thanks for making the video. I was kind of lazy to download the free demo. So, I got a much better idea of how the Spicc. Celli sound by watching your video, and how the Sample Start changes the way they sound. The Vlns Sord sound wonderful, I just wish there was a legato sordino for all the sections, or even a simulated Sord via EQ.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


Thanks for watching! The sample start is a really useful feature. I personally found that -100 left too much echo from the previous repetition based sample, and -0 cut off too much off the note itself. Anywhere between -75 and -25 sounded great to me, with -75 being the loosest I would go, and -25 the tightest. I would definitely adjust this for various passages. 

I think the performance sourced short notes thing works great if you're playing fast, but it reveals itself a lot if you're playing slower. I have this issue with Nashville strings, where you can hear a lot of note sucking before the note on anything but a fast ostinato type short passage. In my opinion there should also be shorts non-performance sourced in any library with this approach. Or, a script that dynamically selects the best sample based on lookahead, from a pool of performance and non-performance sourced samples. Anyway, cheers!


----------



## Russell Anderson

Go To 11 said:


> Or, a script that dynamically selects the best sample based on lookahead, from a pool of performance and non-performance sourced samples.


This can be achieved in your digital audio workstation using the offset knob and an envelope controller to bump the offset value to maximum upon hitting a note, followed by an appropriate decay time that reduces the offset value, so slower tempo spiccs will be from 0 offset (or whatever value) and faster notes will catch the top of the decay curve and the offset value will be high.

Well, this would still need lookahead, wouldn’t it... otherwise your DAW would be adjusting latency compensation hundreds of times per second, which I don’t think works?


----------



## Go To 11

Russell Anderson said:


> This can be achieved in your digital audio workstation using the offset knob and an envelope controller to bump the offset value to maximum upon hitting a note, followed by an appropriate decay time that reduces the offset value, so slower tempo spiccs will be from 0 offset (or whatever value) and faster notes will catch the top of the decay curve and the offset value will be high.
> 
> Well, this would still need lookahead, wouldn’t it... otherwise your DAW would be adjusting latency compensation hundreds of times per second, which I don’t think works?


Cool thanks!


----------



## Daniel James

I posted this is the other thread, but I downloaded the demo patches the other day and was trying them out alongside my other sample libraries. Firstly the cello spiccato just _feels _right for those undercurrent style ostinato. The sordinos are nice and textural, although I am dying to try out the whole section as one.

Anyways the cello ostinato underpinning the cue and all the high strings are the demo patches. Cello legato is Vista (had to see how the small section felt in front of the large section osti....I like it!)

Can't wait for the full release. Performance samples are becoming a goto for me. The playability being a focus resonates with me.



-DJ


----------



## Go To 11

Daniel James said:


> I posted this is the other thread, but I downloaded the demo patches the other day and was trying them out alongside my other sample libraries. Firstly the cello spiccato just _feels _right for those undercurrent style ostinato. The sordinos are nice and textural, although I am dying to try out the whole section as one.
> 
> Anyways the cello ostinato underpinning the cue and all the high strings are the demo patches. Cello legato is Vista (had to see how the small section felt in front of the large section osti....I like it!)
> 
> Can't wait for the full release. Performance samples are becoming a goto for me. The playability being a focus resonates with me.
> 
> 
> 
> -DJ



Very nice DJ! The spiccato sound great here. Those repetitions really sing in a fast passage like this.


----------



## Daniel James

Go To 11 said:


> Very nice DJ! The spiccato sound great here. Those repetitions really sing in a fast passage like this.


Yeah exactly. Thats what I meant by playability. Those spiccatos can really hold the ostinato and sound natural but in time. The same way vista legato lets me do actual musical melodies that flow around. I feel that gives a more 'musical' performance than the regular offerings. 

-DJ


----------



## ism

Daniel James said:


> Yeah exactly. Thats what I meant by playability. Those spiccatos can really hold the ostinato and sound natural but in time. The same way vista legato lets me do actual musical melodies that flow around. I feel that gives a more 'musical' performance than the regular offerings.
> 
> -DJ


I blame your Vista video as what finally pushed me over the edge. 

There really is a superb musicality captured, not just in the legato, but in how everything about how it's sample flows around it supportively.


----------



## Go To 11

Daniel James said:


> Yeah exactly. Thats what I meant by playability. Those spiccatos can really hold the ostinato and sound natural but in time. The same way vista legato lets me do actual musical melodies that flow around. I feel that gives a more 'musical' performance than the regular offerings.
> 
> -DJ


How do you feel about the spiccatos in slower passages? Would you be inclined to use the sample start time to cut off the sucking sound at the start that's more evident when they're exposed? I found even the -75 setting took off the echo from the previous spicatto in the sequence.


----------



## Jack Weaver

A doodle with just Pacific Sords and Synchron cello. 
Looking forward to hearing more isolated instruments in the Pacific library demos. 

.


----------



## Zanshin

My very quick little sketch with the Sordino patch (along with koto and timpini). 

Can't wait for the full strings and then the rest of the sections!

View attachment Mess 001.mp3


----------



## a_reumers




----------



## Evans

Zanshin said:


> My very quick little sketch with the Sordino patch (along with koto and timpini).
> 
> Can't wait for the full strings and then the rest of the sections!
> 
> View attachment Mess 001.mp3


You're terrible for making me want those expensive Koto products.


----------



## Zanshin

Evans said:


> You're terrible for making me want those expensive Koto products.


The Sonica stuff is really good  They had a New Year sale last year hoping for the same for this year. Next up for me I think is the Kabuki and Noh percussion package.


----------



## a_reumers

These sound very nice and lively, I do notice that "fade-in" before the first note of each repeated chord, like you hear with the fluid shorts libraries. I wonder if there is a way to record/program this to get around this.

Best of both worlds would be to have a clean attack on the first note you play, and then the performance-sourced samples for every repetition after that. Obviously much easier said than done..


----------



## jononotbono

The night I tried the demo patch freebie I literally couldn’t stop playing with the Cello Spicc for about two hours. It’s a wonderful thing. So playable. And I think it has 15 dynamic layers. The whole library is gonna be immense. Not sure what Jasper is smoking but it contains some kind of Musical Voodoo!


----------



## Loerpert

a_reumers said:


> These sound very nice and lively, I do notice that "fade-in" before the first note of each repeated chord, like you hear with the fluid shorts libraries. I wonder if there is a way to record/program this to get around this.
> 
> Best of both worlds would be to have a clean attack on the first note you play, and then the performance-sourced samples for every repetition after that. Obviously much easier said than done..



There's a CC to shorten that fade-in and make it sound tighter.


----------



## Go To 11

a_reumers said:


> These sound very nice and lively, I do notice that "fade-in" before the first note of each repeated chord, like you hear with the fluid shorts libraries. I wonder if there is a way to record/program this to get around this.
> 
> Best of both worlds would be to have a clean attack on the first note you play, and then the performance-sourced samples for every repetition after that. Obviously much easier said than done..



From the upcoming Pacific Percussion page:
"This library includes repetition sampling on nearly everything with up to 4 speeds including “traditional” hits which don’t have the “pre-ambience” sound. The script triggers in the different speeds of reps (all of which have been balanced to each other) based on how fast you’re playing. Many of the patches include the 4th speed of rep which is essentially a “roll” rep speed."

If we had this for the strings, it would be a real hoot.


----------



## gst98

Go To 11 said:


> From the upcoming Pacific Percussion page:
> "This library includes repetition sampling on nearly everything with up to 4 speeds including “traditional” hits which don’t have the “pre-ambience” sound. The script triggers in the different speeds of reps (all of which have been balanced to each other) based on how fast you’re playing. Many of the patches include the 4th speed of rep which is essentially a “roll” rep speed."
> 
> If we had this for the strings, it would be a real hoot.


So you want 4 sets of 14 dynamics? I mean that’s just not gonna happen. FS2 has this at 1 dynamic though.

Fwiw, I never really used fluid shorts 1 coz the prenote sounded wierd to me. So I was worried how the pacific shorts would turn out. But these are light years ahead of them regarding the sampling techniques used. One you set the pre note to ~30ms they feel very natural when you put them in the context of playing an actual part and have a much more lively feel than any shorts I know.


----------



## Go To 11

gst98 said:


> So you want 4 sets of 14 dynamics? I mean that’s just not gonna happen. FS2 has this at 1 dynamic though.
> 
> Fwiw, I never really used fluid shorts 1 coz the prenote sounded wierd to me. So I was worried how the pacific shorts would turn out. But these are light years ahead of them regarding the sampling techniques used. One you set the pre note to ~30ms they feel very natural when you put them in the context of playing an actual part and have a much more lively feel than any shorts I know.


What’s FS2? Yeah I guess I hadn’t thought about it but yeah, I want it at 14 dynamics! I mean actually I’d prefer it at 7 dynamics if it had clean start notes at all those dynamics. I personally find the sucking sound unrealistic for anything but fast passages. Having this fixed in the percussion is also sort of an admission to me that it needs it. So then why not do something like this for strings? We’ll see when it’s out I guess.


----------



## Nando Florestan

Loerpert said:


> There's a CC to shorten that fade-in and make it sound tighter.


How do you know that, and what CC number is that!? (Wouldn't it be nice if that worked on current libs)


----------



## gst98

Go To 11 said:


> What’s FS2? Yeah I guess I hadn’t thought about it but yeah, I want it at 14 dynamics! I mean actually I’d prefer it at 7 dynamics if it had clean start notes at all those dynamics. I personally find the sucking sound unrealistic for anything but fast passages. Having this fixed in the percussion is also sort of an admission to me that it needs it. So then why not do something like this for strings? We’ll see when it’s out I guess.


Fluid Shorts 2. He did the exact same "traditional hits" on his Perfperc libraries years ago (had 4 speeds too) and the same on LA modern percussion. Pacific strings and Voyage (as well as the attack samples in Vista, angry brass, angry winds etc...oh and Nashville) came after this so don't think that it's an admission of anything and I don't think there was anything to fix. 

Also, percussion are very different instruments and the way repeated strikes bleed into each other and resonate is entirely fundamental to the way they sound and are played. Most orchestral perc has a long decay, unless you're muting/choking, so you can't really expect the techniques of separated staccato string shorts to be the same as what are essentially joined notes on perc. At faster speeds, it's kinda equivalent to measured trem. He's trying to capture the way notes interrupt each other at different speeds. FS2 seems like a bit of test of this technique on strings but I guess it didn't prove worth it hence why he's hasn't explored it again.

Anyway, the pre-note gets better every time he releases a new product and I think he's finally at the point where the 50-30ms is pretty seamless. You can't hear the previous note and you're just left with the natural pre-note just like CSS or Audio Imperia that are sampled statically. I mean you could also go to -0ms and cut out everything pre-transient but it will sound like a shitty Roland sample.

But I don't think Jasper is going to take the _performance_ part out of _'Performance Samples'_ any time soon. If you prefer traditional static sampling, why not ask literally every other dev to record more dynamics rather than get rid of the USP of JB's sampling? Not sure what we'd gain if every dev sampled in the same way though...


----------



## soulofsound

jononotbono said:


> The night I tried the demo patch freebie I literally couldn’t stop playing with the Cello Spicc for about two hours. It’s a wonderful thing. So playable. And I think it has 15 dynamic layers. The whole library is gonna be immense. Not sure what Jasper is smoking but it contains some kind of Musical Voodoo!


The spic sounds very nice indeed. I am a bit underwhelmed by the sordinos.


----------



## Scalms

I definitely do not need another string library, buuuutttt.....

this is probably my dream string library, why?

1) the tone is incredible. I compared the violins sordino to my other string sordinos and they are probably the 2nd best to my ears (after Berlin Strings (simulated)).
2) The mics setup is perfectly my taste (has a wide stereo image, with the close mics actually being close and still in stereo, and beautiful hall sound but not completely washed out
3) Spiccatos, as others have mentioned, are actually playable, and more in between a staccato and really short spiccato (like from OT), so they are more versatile
4) Dynamic layers
5) Dynamic layers


----------



## Russell Anderson

I’ve been experimenting with Nashville Scoring Strings alongside the Pacific demo with interest in how the Pacific shorts transform from quiet spicc to staccato and then resembling col legno/breaking tuning at the absolute top dynamic, amazing. NSS obviously being sampled with similar techniques has a similar connectivity; but by playing technique it’s interesting how for at least the low voices (we’ll find out for upper voices on release), layering an actual col legno patch with a high Expansion setting will give a similar result to the Pacific spicc patch and feign a greater range of dynamics.

I have a feeling this won’t translate to the upper voices and that the softer dynamic layers in Pacific will shine more in the violins and violas. The low voices in both libraries are tremendously powerful and the thicker strings I think enable the players to be more ferocious with the bowing. Ahshdiddushjh they are amazing to play


----------



## Argy Ottas

Guys, Jasper shared this strings comparison analysis on Facebook, asking us for feedback. I am curious if Pacific is among these examples. You can find the original post on his Facebook personal account and participate in the analysis. It is admirable that this man interacts with us trying to improve our VI experience.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwjw7j4ml3su8ov/Facebook_ViolinComparisonAnalysis.mp3?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR1PaeERZy7LTbvPEVQdo8zjJuP0ON2p0yfyv19DqGf3dAdkhwTJHVu0meY


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Argy Ottas said:


> Guys, Jasper shared this strings comparison analysis on Facebook, asking us for feedback. I am curious if Pacific is among these examples. You can find the original post on his Facebook personal account and participate in the analysis. It is admirable that this man interacts with us trying to improve our VI experience.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwjw7j4ml3su8ov/Facebook_ViolinComparisonAnalysis.mp3?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR1PaeERZy7LTbvPEVQdo8zjJuP0ON2p0yfyv19DqGf3dAdkhwTJHVu0meY


what's the comparison of exactly


----------



## Argy Ottas

FrozenIcicle said:


> what's the comparison of exactly


No one really knows except from Jasper himself


----------



## Argy Ottas

Argy Ottas said:


> Guys, Jasper shared this strings comparison analysis on Facebook, asking us for feedback. I am curious if Pacific is among these examples. You can find the original post on his Facebook personal account and participate in the analysis. It is admirable that this man interacts with us trying to improve our VI experience.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwjw7j4ml3su8ov/Facebook_ViolinComparisonAnalysis.mp3?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR1PaeERZy7LTbvPEVQdo8zjJuP0ON2p0yfyv19DqGf3dAdkhwTJHVu0meY


EDIT: Just sharing a screenshot of Jasper's post on Facebook in order to avoid any misunderstanding






https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwjw7j4ml3su8ov/Facebook_ViolinComparisonAnalysis.mp3?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR39o1RgcS4TXww-4NYiGXRtGfcccReq2-1UqzMcib_ekg87nWh4RqRW5jE


----------



## WhiteNoiz

Sounds like he's testing differently timed transitions to me. A feels a bit more laid-back, B somewhat snappier. B also feels slightly more reverberant. A would probably be somewhat better for slower, more "performative" passages, B a bit more streamlined. Just my feeling anyway... Or my vivid imagination. 😂


----------



## WhiteNoiz

Tried it some more. The dynamic range is pretty wonderful. I felt like I'd even probably want to limit it, depending... Layering is kinda weird, especially on the lower dyns, with more limited range libs, but anyhow... The looping feels kinda obvious in the sordinos. Noises don't seem overbearing. For this test, I put the Note Int at 340 and sample offset at -84. That seemed to fit the best, though still not quite on point. CC1 is just rising from 0 to full throughout. It's interesting to experiment with the settings, though I assume if you're on a hurry or if it's not already set-up you wouldn't be as happy adjusting.  Also, attached a second example where the shorts are 1 16th behind the beat. Seems a bit better, though still a bit jumpy. The lower ones are a bit weirder 'cause it's just the celli detuned (probably getting dragged and artifacty), so keep that in mind. There's some reverb on top, too. Close is slightly LR panned.

Edit: Added a version with HS 4th position simulated sordinos for comparison. (Just spicc x9 on celli. There are multiple shorts there to mess with. Also, celli shorts are about -12 db compared to sus violins)

And, yes, HS cuts two voices in the second chord for whatever the fuck reason (seems to act up with grid not lining up perfectly and still...).


----------



## Sovereign

Aaaaand we're in November. Appears Jasper was too optimistic with all the previous estimates. Will it come out this month?


----------



## gst98

Sovereign said:


> Aaaaand we're in November. Appears Jasper was too optimistic with all the previous estimates. Will it come out this month?


I think he's probably had it done for a while and is waiting for the sale to end first. either that or he's focusing on the other sections and the AI choir that he's been posting


----------



## Evans

gst98 said:


> I think he's probably had it done for a while and is waiting for the sale to end first. either that or he's focusing on the other sections and the AI choir that he's been posting


Yes, I'd be shocked if it came out before the current sale is over.


----------



## Russell Anderson

gst98 said:


> I think he's probably had it done for a while and is waiting for the sale to end first. either that or he's focusing on the other sections and the AI choir that he's been posting


Is it his facebook page where he posts this stuff?


----------



## gst98

Russell Anderson said:


> Is it his facebook page where he posts this stuff?


yeah, sometimes on PS page sometimes on his personal page and occasionally on Instagram. Seems like perc is pretty much finished, the AI choir is getting close and he's working on WW and Brass as well as he just added some progress to voyage on SoundCloud. He even re-recorded some brass last week.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Some of y’all are gonna literally crucify me for saying this, and that’s fine lmao, but I’m kinda wondering about MSS or Pacific right now. It would look like me buying Vista, and then using MSS to add runs/aleatorics/smoother sounding playing/ostenato feature to NSS/SCS and Vista. NSS is a great library.

Alternatively, buy Pacific and bask in the glory of Pacific, and then use said glory combined with skill and a new computer to win a Metapop competition which would edit: _re_ward me with K13U > update to Action Strings 2. And then that would be my ostenato/rhythm tool.

Could always get MSS and wait out Voyage...


----------



## Futchibon

Russell Anderson said:


> Some of y’all are gonna literally crucify me for saying this, and that’s fine lmao, but I’m kinda wondering about MSS or Pacific right now.


The mere mention of MSS on here is auto divisi(ve)


----------



## gst98

Russell Anderson said:


> Some of y’all are gonna literally crucify me for saying this, and that’s fine lmao, but I’m kinda wondering about MSS or Pacific right now. It would look like me buying Vista, and then using MSS to add runs/aleatorics/smoother sounding playing/ostenato feature to NSS/SCS and Vista. NSS is a great library.
> 
> Alternatively, buy Pacific and bask in the glory of Pacific, and then use said glory combined with skill and a new computer to win a Metapop competition which would award me with K13U > update to Action Strings 2. And then that would be my ostenato/rhythm tool.
> 
> Could always get MSS and wait out Voyage...


Well my opinion on the sound of MSS aside, it's a very different library recorded with an almost opposite philosophy way to Pacific so I'm not sure they'd be the best blend to swap out and interchange parts. Which is a different question to layering strings on each other.

Personally, I would say adagio and the new adachi update is far more suited to add parts to pacific, as well as the edited RR legato is pretty incredible, and your writing won't have to live inside the restrictions of the ostinatos that MSS recorded. I know that does answer the aleatoric question though

Actions strings 2 added some amazing tools that have been really useful but (is it recorded in the same room MSS?) has that same very boxy sound that I've had to EQ and tweak _a lot_ to fit in with my template


----------



## Sovereign

gst98 said:


> I think he's probably had it done for a while and is waiting for the sale to end first. either that or he's focusing on the other sections and the AI choir that he's been posting


Not sure how the sale itself though would prohibit a release of Pacific?


----------



## Russell Anderson

gst98 said:


> Well my opinion on the sound of MSS aside, it's a very different library recorded with an almost opposite philosophy way to Pacific so I'm not sure they'd be the best blend to swap out and interchange parts. Which is a different question to layering strings on each other.
> 
> Personally, I would say adagio and the new adachi update is far more suited to add parts to pacific, as well as the edited RR legato is pretty incredible, and your writing won't have to live inside the restrictions of the ostinatos that MSS recorded. I know that does answer the aleatoric question though
> 
> Actions strings 2 added some amazing tools that have been really useful but (is it recorded in the same room MSS?) has that same very boxy sound that I've had to EQ and tweak _a lot_ to fit in with my template


It’d definitely be for layering. I should probably go check out an actual AS2 walkthrough and see what it can do and what working with it is like. It and SCS can go a ways to cover the useful features, but maybe not entirely, not sure. It’d certainly be hard to say no to Pacific, though. Once “layering” gets brought up things get a bit hazier, but Pacific certainly has That Sound thanks to those juicy dynamics and juicy scripting... juicy everything really


----------



## Russell Anderson

Sovereign said:


> Not sure how the sale itself though would prohibit a release of Pacific?


Do we know whether the Pacific intro price is tied to this sale, at all? I get the impression the intro price is like a pre-order price, gone upon release, and thus Pacific could be out once the sale is over. Alternatively it’s completely unrelated and Pacific will come out before or after the sale is over and may or may not still be in the intro period.


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> Well my opinion on the sound of MSS aside, it's a very different library recorded with an almost opposite philosophy way to Pacific so I'm not sure they'd be the best blend to swap out and interchange parts. Which is a different question to layering strings on each other.
> 
> Personally, I would say adagio and the new adachi update is far more suited to add parts to pacific, as well as the edited RR legato is pretty incredible, and your writing won't have to live inside the restrictions of the ostinatos that MSS recorded. I know that does answer the aleatoric question though
> 
> Actions strings 2 added some amazing tools that have been really useful but (is it recorded in the same room MSS?) has that same very boxy sound that I've had to EQ and tweak _a lot_ to fit in with my template


I think they mean layering with Vista, NSS and SCS. Which is a good idea because MSS blends really well and has a pretty neutral tone. I already blend it with CSS and Vista


----------



## Evans

Sovereign said:


> Not sure how the sale itself though would prohibit a release of Pacific?


It just seems kind of odd that someone could pick up Vista _after_ Pacific Strings comes out in order to hit the Pacific Strings intro period loyalty pricing.

$499 Pacific Strings loyalty intro price
$699 Pacific Strings intro price
$179 Vista sale price plus $499 Pacific Strings loyalty intro price = $678
Jasper would "lose" $21 by running both at the same time and potentially incur additional bandwidth costs.


----------



## Russell Anderson

I’m sure that whatever he does, he’s thought it out and it will work favorably. I should probably go buy Vista _right now_ though, you never know what might happen.

I might even get my RAM coming in the mail, like they might even ship it after a week of “processing” when the item otherwise says it has gone out of stock and evil competitor Amazon has marked it up from $330/2 sticks to $675/2 sticks in a matter of a few days; that’d be crazy, wouldn’t it, imagine that, then I could even use the library.

Sorry uh


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> I think they mean layering with Vista, NSS and SCS. Which is a good idea because MSS blends really well and has a pretty neutral tone. I already blend it with CSS and Vista


I thought from the mentioning of features that weren't in the pacific it was intended to supplement rather than blend with, but otherwise yeah you're right. I image a half section would be good for layering too


----------



## Russell Anderson

gst98 said:


> I thought from the mentioning of features that weren't in the pacific it was intended to supplement rather than blend with, but otherwise yeah you're right. I image a half section would be good for layering too


It’s an either/or thing, if I had the cash (well I might but man let’s slow down here) I’d pick up both pretty damn fast


----------



## gst98

Sovereign said:


> Not sure how the sale itself though would prohibit a release of Pacific?


other than whats Evans said I don't think there is much of a reason. I would have thought he'd want to get it out before black friday sales kick in


----------



## Evans

On the other hand, running both at the same time could be a way to boost attraction, getting people to "invest" in Pacific and therefore more likely to buy subsequent releases.

I do think I've been in a situation in which I picked up a Strezov library on a sale, then shortly after picked up another library during the same sale _and_ got "crossgrade" pricing.

Slightly different, but... sort of the same?


----------



## Sovereign

Evans said:


> On the other hand, running both at the same time could be a way to boost attraction, getting people to "invest" in Pacific and therefore more likely to buy subsequent releases.
> 
> I do think I've been in a situation in which I picked up a Strezov library on a sale, then shortly after picked up another library during the same sale _and_ got "crossgrade" pricing.
> 
> Slightly different, but... sort of the same?


Could all be true, but doesn't really fit the continuously shifting release date though, since it was supposed to be out well before this sale. Oh well, in the end it doesn't matter.


----------



## Casiquire

I think a sale and a release both give companies a bump. Since that bump comes from the same market of consumers, it makes more sense to get *two* bumps, right?


----------



## Russell Anderson

I always assume release dates are like 2 months behind for this kind of thing.

In other news, I just bought a different set of RAM sticks, AND THEY ACTUALLY GAVE ME A SHIPMENT DATE, and I was the last order before out of stock. My backup-ram ran out of stock a few minutes before buying, and that’s because my initial RAM was going to take >1month to ship likely due to stock issues they weren’t admitting to, and seller was not responding to emails. Holy cow. RAM market is actually on fire right now, I am so lucky. 

Back to libraries...


----------



## Hunter123

Russell Anderson said:


> I always assume release dates are like 2 months behind for this kind of thing.
> 
> In other news, I just bought a different set of RAM sticks, AND THEY ACTUALLY GAVE ME A SHIPMENT DATE, and I was the last order before out of stock. My backup-ram ran out of stock a few minutes before buying, and that’s because my initial RAM was going to take >1month to ship likely due to stock issues they weren’t admitting to, and seller was not responding to emails. Holy cow. RAM market is actually on fire right now, I am so lucky.
> 
> Back to libraries...


Where did you get your ram? I'm looking to upgrade my late 2013 mac pro.


----------



## muziksculp

gst98 said:


> I think he's probably had it done for a while and is waiting for the sale to end first.


I think so too. The sale ends on Nov. 11th, so Nov. 12th might be the release date. Just a wild guess.


----------



## Evans

muziksculp said:


> I think so too. The sale ends on Nov. 11th, so Nov. 12th might be the release date. Just a wild guess.


That would be the same date as the end of pre-orders for Tokyo Scoring Strings.

Quite different libraries, but some wallets are going to hurt.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Hunter123 said:


> Where did you get your ram? I'm looking to upgrade my late 2013 mac pro.


Newegg. Might wanna move fast though. Supply is going down and demand is going up. You know what that means


----------



## Futchibon

Russell Anderson said:


> Some of y’all are gonna literally crucify me for saying this, and that’s fine lmao, but I’m kinda wondering about MSS or Pacific right now. It would look like me buying Vista, and then using MSS to add runs/aleatorics/smoother sounding playing/ostenato feature to NSS/SCS and Vista. NSS is a great library.
> 
> Alternatively, buy Pacific and bask in the glory of Pacific, and then use said glory combined with skill and a new computer to win a Metapop competition which would edit: _re_ward me with K13U > update to Action Strings 2. And then that would be my ostenato/rhythm tool.
> 
> Could always get MSS and wait out Voyage...


I'll be getting MSS and Pacific and calling it a day. Voyage will no doubt be amazing but it will also have an amazing price tag and I think Vista and Pacific will complement each other beautifully. MSS seems like the most complete strings package atm and I do a lot of aleatoric/avant garde stuff so it should be great for that, as well as many other awesome features. Have a few other strings libs too including Afflatus so if I can't make great music with that lot it's me that's the problem, not the VIs!

I might have to live on bread and water for the next month  but my soul will be nourished


----------



## Casiquire

Futchibon said:


> I'll be getting MSS and Pacific and calling it a day. Voyage will no doubt be amazing but it will also have an amazing price tag and I think Vista and Pacific will complement each other beautifully. MSS seems like the most complete strings package atm and I do a lot of aleatoric/avant garde stuff so it should be great for that, as well as many other awesome features. Have a few other strings libs too including Afflatus so if I can't make great music with that lot it's me that's the problem, not the VIs!
> 
> I might have to live on bread and water for the next month  but my soul will be nourished


That covers your big sections, your small sections, your pure tone, your saccharine vibrato, your tight and dry strings, and your ambient strings, and almost all articulations.


----------



## Zanshin

Every time I question why I earmarked money for Pacific, I listen to a couple of the demos and I'm like - OH YEAH.

I want MSS but not at what I think it will be offered for, I suppose I could forgo the full package and just get core but then I think I'd want MSB too. I should probably stay away from that slippery slope haha.

TSS - I already preordered.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Zanshin said:


> Every time I question why I earmarked money for Pacific, I listen to a couple of the demos and I'm like - OH YEAH.
> 
> I want MSS but not at what I think it will be offered for, I suppose I could forgo the full package and just get core but then I think I'd want MSB too. I should probably stay away from that slippery slope haha.
> 
> TSS - I already preordered.


I have no reservations about not getting MSB, is it because of loyalty discounts? I guess I’m feeling similarly towards Cinematic Studio Series, I don’t want to tempt myself by getting my foot in the door.

@Futchibon I’m trying to make up my mind whether I want to do the same. It sort of depends on the discount from Audiobro. I’d certainly be extremely set on strings for life aside from possibly Voyage and Infinite strings, I’d have plenty of options for partwriting between NSS, SCS, Vista MSS (core without a doubt, don’t need more than that) and Pacific. Holy cow I’d be rolling in it, where not a year ago Abbey Road One made my first-ever orchestral library. A lot has happened in the past 12 months o_o


----------



## Futchibon

Zanshin said:


> I want MSS but not at what I think it will be offered for, I suppose I could forgo the full package and just get core but then I think I'd want MSB too. I should probably stay away from that slippery slope haha.


Yeah hoping the core package will come down to at least the same as Pacific loyalty pricing. Looking forward to doing some OST mockups once I get it, perhaps I could start with excerpts from these two?


----------



## Zanshin

NOOOOOoooo mock up this:


----------



## Futchibon

Zanshin said:


> NOOOOOoooo mock up this:



That could actually be pretty cool!


----------



## Russell Anderson

I would be really happy with a 40% discount on MSS... as if  

I think for the time being I’m gonna sink my teeth deeper into SCS, probably get pro mics + EWC over black friday, I can do a lot of what I like technically in SCS which is really good at fast stuff. Pacific might just be the backbone of everything I do after I get it, and SCS sequestered to mostly low-vibrato delicate and super-fast stuff, with Vista and NSS for the gritted-teeth/curled lip stuff. 

I’m keeping my eyes on MSS though, at some point its workflow and sound (I still love the detune and aleatorics...) are probably going to be attractive enough for me to just go and buy it.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Hi Guys. So I did a crash test with the Pacific sordino patch that inspired me to write this small piece of music. The dynamic range is phenomenal (some PPPPP's at the intro and a couple of F's at the finale )! 

To my ears, it also fits very well with Vista and Con Moto. 
Really can't wait for the official release!
Thanks for listening


----------



## Casiquire

Argy Ottas said:


> Hi Guys. So I did a crash test with the Pacific sordino patch that inspired me to write this small piece of music. The dynamic range is phenomenal (some PPPPP's at the intro and a couple of F's at the finale )!
> 
> To my ears, it also fits very well with Vista and Con Moto.
> Really can't wait for the official release!
> Thanks for listening



Very nicely done!


----------



## Scalms

Argy Ottas said:


> Hi Guys. So I did a crash test with the Pacific sordino patch that inspired me to write this small piece of music. The dynamic range is phenomenal (some PPPPP's at the intro and a couple of F's at the finale )!
> 
> To my ears, it also fits very well with Vista and Con Moto.
> Really can't wait for the official release!
> Thanks for listening



wow, great job, the piece sounds amazing (both the composition and the sounds)


----------



## muziksculp

Argy Ottas said:


> Hi Guys. So I did a crash test with the Pacific sordino patch that inspired me to write this small piece of music. The dynamic range is phenomenal (some PPPPP's at the intro and a couple of F's at the finale )!
> 
> To my ears, it also fits very well with Vista and Con Moto.
> Really can't wait for the official release!
> Thanks for listening



Awesome sounding demo. Thanks for sharing.

OH.. edit. Just saw you did use Vista and Con Moto.


----------



## Hunter123

Argy Ottas said:


> Hi Guys. So I did a crash test with the Pacific sordino patch that inspired me to write this small piece of music. The dynamic range is phenomenal (some PPPPP's at the intro and a couple of F's at the finale )!
> 
> To my ears, it also fits very well with Vista and Con Moto.
> Really can't wait for the official release!
> Thanks for listening



I'm leaning more and more towards picking this library up whenever it comes out.


----------



## Futchibon

Argy Ottas said:


> Hi Guys. So I did a crash test with the Pacific sordino patch that inspired me to write this small piece of music. The dynamic range is phenomenal (some PPPPP's at the intro and a couple of F's at the finale )!
> 
> To my ears, it also fits very well with Vista and Con Moto.
> Really can't wait for the official release!
> Thanks for listening



Great job!


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Argy Ottas said:


> Hi Guys. So I did a crash test with the Pacific sordino patch that inspired me to write this small piece of music. The dynamic range is phenomenal (some PPPPP's at the intro and a couple of F's at the finale )!
> 
> To my ears, it also fits very well with Vista and Con Moto.
> Really can't wait for the official release!
> Thanks for listening



Argy, this is amazing! Just great work, love it!!


----------



## Russell Anderson

Man, NSS, Vista and SCS are so good together, am I gonna do Pacific or wait for Voyage 

I love the sounds... but I can get so far already... but the sul tasto layers and the ensemble size in the room, with the scripting... the shorts.... But NSS shorts are so great and SCS playing techniques sound great... *hnnngggggggggg*


----------



## Soundbed

Argy Ottas said:


> Hi Guys. So I did a crash test with the Pacific sordino patch that inspired me to write this small piece of music. The dynamic range is phenomenal (some PPPPP's at the intro and a couple of F's at the finale )!
> 
> To my ears, it also fits very well with Vista and Con Moto.
> Really can't wait for the official release!
> Thanks for listening



Whoa. That got my attention.


----------



## AlainTH

Great!


----------



## Argy Ottas

Thanks for your warm and positive comments guys! I appreciate it..! At the end, all these are tools to inspire us write better music.


----------



## soulofsound

Argy Ottas said:


> Thanks for your warm and positive comments guys! I appreciate it..! At the end, all these are tools to inspire us write better music.


Awesome track. It inspires me what can be done with it.


----------



## pipedr

What do you guys think about the number of dynamic layers in Pacific? Is more always better? Vista sounds like it has a pretty good dynamic range with five dynamic layers…


----------



## Russell Anderson

pipedr said:


> What do you guys think about the number of dynamic layers in Pacific? Is more always better? Vista sounds like it has a pretty good dynamic range with five dynamic layers…


It’s 5 in Pacific as well on the legato sustains. It’s the con sordino/sul tasto longs (I think just sul tasto? I forgot) and the shorts that have 15/14


----------



## Sovereign

pipedr said:


> What do you guys think about the number of dynamic layers in Pacific? Is more always better? Vista sounds like it has a pretty good dynamic range with five dynamic layers…


Vista has four dynamics.


----------



## gst98

Russell Anderson said:


> It’s 5 in Pacific as well on the legato sustains. It’s the con sordino/sul tasto longs (I think just sul tasto? I forgot) and the shorts that have 15/14


Vista is 4



pipedr said:


> What do you guys think about the number of dynamic layers in Pacific? Is more always better? Vista sounds like it has a pretty good dynamic range with five dynamic layers…


No, I don't think it's always better. I think the high dynamics on Synchron strings 1 are wasted and unnecessary. But these demo patches are incredible and I can't see going back - probably coz he ahs completely different approach to dynamics than other devs.


----------



## Russell Anderson

I don’t know the small significant details on his envelopes or anything which probably play a large hand in the great dynamics, but his focus of consistency in the mic balance across the dynamic range, on playability and consistency and predictability of the modwheel (and his offering of dynamic layer compression/normalization) are probably responsible. And the way the players play at each dynamic. It’s all a wonderful package.


----------



## jazzman7

Argy Ottas said:


> To my ears, it also fits very well with Vista and Con Moto.


You have great hearing! BTW Well done!


----------



## Casiquire

pipedr said:


> What do you guys think about the number of dynamic layers in Pacific? Is more always better? Vista sounds like it has a pretty good dynamic range with five dynamic layers…


The number has less to do with it than the execution. That's exactly the territory where PS excels, and where Jasper's ear comes through. If he's recording eight hundred twenty-six dynamic layers for an articulation, i pretty much just trust that he's right.


----------



## muziksculp

Nov. 12th is pretty close


----------



## Russell Anderson

I stare at a screen all day. I wonder if I’d have less eye strain with a 4k low-lag 120hz TV as my monitor?

It’d probably cost more than 2 Pacifics between the TV and the required GPU. Is Pacific worth my eyes?

Are my eyes worth not having Pacific?


----------



## Simon Ravn

That sordino patch is just amazing. Looking so much forward to the rest! Anyone knows if Jasper did legato for the sordinos?


----------



## Futchibon

Simon Ravn said:


> That sordino patch is just amazing. Looking so much forward to the rest! Anyone knows if Jasper did legato for the sordinos?


Sadly no legato for the sordino patch


----------



## Henning

Simon Ravn said:


> That sordino patch is just amazing. Looking so much forward to the rest! Anyone knows if Jasper did legato for the sordinos?


As far as I know he did not record legatos for the sordinos. I agree with you, it is quite beautiful and it works really nicely even without legato transitons.


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Nov. 12th is pretty close


What's happening then?


----------



## CT

Futchibon said:


> What's happening then?


He retires from VI-Control.


----------



## Hendrixon

pipedr said:


> What do you guys think about the number of dynamic layers in Pacific? Is more always better? Vista sounds like it has a pretty good dynamic range with five dynamic layers…


Listen to the Horns FX extension of Berlin Brass, its only 2 layers but the sound is to die for!
Its all in the way you transition between dynamic layers, both in the source material and the programming.


----------



## muziksculp

Michaelt said:


> He retires from VI-Control.


I noticed your avatar keeps morphing. Nice feature you got there.


----------



## dts_marin

Can Fender acquire Jasper already??


----------



## FireGS

dts_marin said:


> Can Fender acquire Jasper already??


nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## dts_marin

FireGS said:


> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Audio Imperia did achoir Jasper though


----------



## FireGS

dts_marin said:


> Audio Imperia did achoir Jasper though


booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## Casiquire

dts_marin said:


> Audio Imperia did achoir Jasper though


Banned 😂😂


----------



## chapbot

Is Pacific kind of considered an extension of Con Moto? As in the two libraries will play well together... if I'm using CM then Pacific articulations will match fine? Seems like I remember reading something about that here.


----------



## Vlzmusic

chapbot said:


> Is Pacific kind of considered an extension of Con Moto? As in the two libraries will play well together... if I'm using CM then Pacific articulations will match fine? Seems like I remember reading something about that here.


I don't think it comes to that degree of "fine match", considering it's a different product. It does come as a spiritual successor to CM, being of similar size and same venue. I remember the early days of CM coming out section by section, and the desire many people expressed to have "full fledged" string library by Jasper, beyond legato - but naturally for him, it would not make much sense to artificially add other articulations to match, and the fact that you get 500$ off the Pacific Strings, should fully compensate CM becoming obsolete in a sense.


----------



## FireGS

I don't think they're the same size @chapbot . I'm pretty sure CM is a much smaller size per-section than Pacific.


----------



## audioimperia

dts_marin said:


> Audio Imperia did achoir Jasper though


----------



## davidson

Will pacific include shorts similar to fluid shorts?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

davidson said:


> Will pacific include shorts similar to fluid shorts?


Listen to the 6th demo on the product page and see if that satisfy you. Sounds good to me and sounds like it can do the same thing and possibly better. edited: As in more velocities.


----------



## davidson

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Listen to the 6th demo on the product page and see if that satisfy you. Sounds good to me and sounds like it can do the same thing and possibly better. edited: As in more velocities.


Cheers. I did hear that demo but it didn't grip me like the fluid shorts demos. Of course I haven't heard both libraries playing the same piece so its hard to tell, but fluid shorts certainly sounds like it has more magic sauce in its sound.


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Nov. 12th is pretty close


----------



## davidson

I just noticed the full price for pacific is around £1,000 with vat added 

How much are we likely to be looking at for the full orchestra?

Also, at that bloody price it better have the same kind of shorts as FS.


----------



## Futchibon

davidson said:


> I just noticed the full price for pacific is around £1,000 with vat added
> 
> How much are we likely to be looking at for the full orchestra?
> 
> Also, at that bloody price it better have the same kind of shorts as FS.


Pricing for the other sections hasn't been released but it says considerably less than for the strings.

Pacific - US$499 loyalty intro if you own Vista (on sale for a few more [email protected]$179) or Con Moto, $699 others intro, then $999 regular price. So if you're interested and don't own Vista, I'd act quickly!


----------



## Evans

The only thing I don't have from this sale that I would consider is the PerfPerc bundle. I can't find _that_ much on it online. Any thoughts?


----------



## muziksculp

Should I buckle up for tomorrow ?


----------



## Evans

muziksculp said:


> Should I buckle up for tomorrow ?


If you're driving anywhere, yes.


----------



## Sovereign

Surely we're not really expecting it to be released tomorrow. I mean, haven't we learned our lesson by now?


----------



## Nando Florestan

We haven't learned anything. And don't call me Shirley.


----------



## Futchibon

Sovereign said:


> Surely we're not really expecting it to be released tomorrow. I mean, haven't we learned our lesson by now?


Hopefully a release date at least!


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Hopefully a release date at least!


But, Surprises are more fun.


----------



## handz

davidson said:


> I just noticed the full price for pacific is around £1,000 with vat added
> 
> How much are we likely to be looking at for the full orchestra?
> 
> Also, at that bloody price it better have the same kind of shorts as FS.


Yep the pricing is adventurous for 2021. Its better be good 😀


----------



## Niah2

Evans said:


> The only thing I don't have from this sale that I would consider is the PerfPerc bundle. I can't find _that_ much on it online. Any thoughts?


Corey Pelizzari has two cool videos about the 3 volumes of perfperc


----------



## muziksculp

Has the Sale been extended to today ? 

It still says 24 hours remaining.


----------



## muziksculp

I think we are getting close


----------



## MelodicAdagio

muziksculp said:


> Has the Sale been extended to today ?
> 
> It still says 24 hours remaining.


Yes. I bought Vista last night, the 12th, supposedly a day after the sale was to end, and I got the $179 price. I figured I would pick that up and then later get Pacific at the loyalty intro price of $499 and end up with two libraries for $678 and save $22 over the intro price for Pacific alone. So far the website has not been updated to indicate the sale is over, so it might still be ongoing now.


----------



## Hunter123

MelodicAdagio said:


> Yes. I bought Vista last night, the 12th, supposedly a day after the sale was to end, and I got the $179 price. I figured I would pick that up and then later get Pacific at the loyalty intro price of $499 and end up with two libraries for $678 and save $22 over the intro price for Pacific alone. So far the website has not been updated to indicate the sale is over, so it might still be ongoing now.


Same here


----------



## muziksculp

I notice that Most of the Pacific Strings demos posted on the Performance Samples Site are 'Early Demos' , quite a few are with alpha versions of Pacific Strings. 

I wonder if newer release version demos are going to be posted soon ?


----------



## Russell Anderson

Probably not. I’d guess we’ll sooner be hearing reviews on the full release.


----------



## muziksculp

Russell Anderson said:


> Probably not. I’d guess we’ll sooner be hearing reviews on the full release.


Reviews, but well crafted demos ? That's normally the developer's responsibility to showcase the library being sold, at it's final release status. Not at Alpha/Beta.


----------



## FireGS

Take a look at Vista, and Angry Brass -- most, if not all demos say early, alpha, beta, or speedwrite.


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> Take a look at Vista, and Angry Brass -- most, if not all demos say early, alpha, beta, or speedwrite.


Yeah.. that's true. 

I guess that's the norm with Performance Samples demos. 

Thanks.


----------



## Vlzmusic

muziksculp said:


> Reviews, but well crafted demos ? That's normally the developer's responsibility to showcase the library being sold, at it's final release status. Not at Alpha/Beta.


This comes back again and again, but I sincerely cannot find anything wrong with PS demos, they include both naked playing, and well crafted tracks, and always faithfully represent what exactly you are getting...


----------



## Russell Anderson

The difference between MSS and Jasper’s stuff for me is, he can sell me with an alpha version demo, because I like the scripting and his taste in sound. And I get a demo later. MSS, it’s the 1.1 demos that I haven’t heard enough of (as in they don’t exist in sufficient quantity to show the level of detail of scripting and sound you can hear in Jasper’s alpha demos) and it’s an uphill battle against surround mics.

There is a lot going for MSS, but I also at my budget need it to have super nice legatos, since that’s what it’s up against and for everything besides detune and the quantity of aleatorics I have SCS. So Pacific is en route to getting my money.


----------



## muziksculp

I'm just curious if the release version is going to be an improved version of the Alpha/Beta versions, not that the Alpha/Beta don't sound good.


----------



## Argy Ottas

muziksculp said:


> Yeah.. that's true.
> 
> I guess that's the norm with Performance Samples demos.
> 
> Thanks.


Yeah imagine those speedwritings be carefully crafted...  All the PS demos really cover all my needs!


----------



## Russell Anderson

muziksculp said:


> I'm just curious if the release version is going to be an improved version of the Alpha/Beta versions, not that the Alpha/Beta don't sound good.


Yes, there will be less noise and better/higher quantity of scripting, that’s pretty much it from what I understand. Like a demo might be played on the only set of notes/instruments currently with-scripting or something.


----------



## muziksculp

Russell Anderson said:


> Yes, there will be less noise and better/higher quantity of scripting, that’s pretty much it from what I understand.


That's what I wanted to know. 

THANKS


----------



## Russell Anderson

muziksculp said:


> That's what I wanted to know.
> 
> THANKS


I should say, there will still be noise, audible noise. It’s part of the package. But there won’t be as much as in “non-denoised”-denoted demos


----------



## muziksculp

The big question now, is will it be released soon ? I mean in the next few days ?


----------



## Russell Anderson

It should be out by 2023, maybe before. 

Frankly the longer he takes, the better for me. More time for me to explore the combination of NSS, SCS and Vista to get the final impression of whether or not I actually want to spend $500 on another string library right now. There is still the Infinite bundle, 2 choirs, some exotic instrument libraries and CAR REPAIRS on my list for this Black Friday season, so… That is a factor.


----------



## Vlzmusic

muziksculp said:


> I'm just curious if the release version is going to be an improved version of the Alpha/Beta versions, not that the Alpha/Beta don't sound good.


Looking back at Con Moto, Solo Violins, Angry stuff etc. I think Jasper puts out examples which hold up to the highest standards he has for Virtual instruments as a whole, so you will be hard pressed to hear major difference in the final product - I guess lots of polish work goes to even out all the ranges, mics etc. He is confident enough to put out ready products and not patch them like crazy later on, cause he is pathologically perfectionist, in my view. 

In short, no, I wouldn't expect the demos to be inferior to the end release.


----------



## Leon Willett

How many velocities does the cowbell have? Does it have legato? Bottle mic?


----------



## Casiquire

Russell Anderson said:


> The difference between MSS and Jasper’s stuff for me is, he can sell me with an alpha version demo, because I like the scripting and his taste in sound. And I get a demo later. MSS, it’s the 1.1 demos that I haven’t heard enough of (as in they don’t exist in sufficient quantity to show the level of detail of scripting and sound you can hear in Jasper’s alpha demos) and it’s an uphill battle against surround mics.
> 
> There is a lot going for MSS, but I also at my budget need it to have super nice legatos, since that’s what it’s up against and for everything besides detune and the quantity of aleatorics I have SCS. So Pacific is en route to getting my money.


I'm not sure i follow, what do you mean about MSS's surround mics? And i do love its legato which is immaculate but the standard isn't as slurred as like a Vista or something. You can take a port and speed it up if you need that.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Leon Willett said:


> How many velocities does the cowbell have? Does it have legato? Bottle mic?


I recognize bottle mic is a meme, but what is its origin? And is this a bottle mic, or a creative mic located inside of a bottle?


----------



## Russell Anderson

Casiquire said:


> I'm not sure i follow, what do you mean about MSS's surround mics? And i do love its legato which is immaculate but the standard isn't as slurred as like a Vista or something. You can take a port and speed it up if you need that.


I need to listen to them more, but there is something about them… Maybe it’s related to my general distaste for super-far-back mics but I get the impression these are up against a wall or something and catching reflections, there’s something about them that hits me differently. I should probably A/B them though with other surrounds and see if it’s just me not liking surrounds besides the ones in NSS


----------



## gst98

Russell Anderson said:


> I recognize bottle mic is a meme, but what is its origin? And is this a bottle mic, or a creative mic located inside of a bottle?


----------



## Casiquire

Russell Anderson said:


> I need to listen to them more, but there is something about them… Maybe it’s related to my general distaste for super-far-back mics but I get the impression these are up against a wall or something and catching reflections, there’s something about them that hits me differently. I should probably A/B them though with other surrounds and see if it’s just me not liking surrounds besides the ones in NSS


Interesting, I don't really hear it that way. To my ears, if anything, the surrounds sound too similar to the room mics. You're not a fan of the NSS ones? I don't own that one so i can't really speak to it. Overall though i do tend to use them at a low level, if at all


----------



## Leon Willett

Russell Anderson said:


> I recognize bottle mic is a meme, but what is its origin? And is this a bottle mic, or a creative mic located inside of a bottle?


The meme has it's INCEPTION (hehehe) in Hans Zimmer's ground breaking microphone technique put to first use during the production of Spitfire's string library which bears the name of the great composer. 

The library, while well received by some, was claimed by others to not be enough of a slap in the face by the phallus of a certain fictitious pirate character played by Johnny Depp. While I concur with the latter conclusion, to each his own, or course. 

When all is said and done, let us underestimate the power of a microphone in a bottle. If nothing else, for the memes.


----------



## Soundbed

Russell Anderson said:


> Pacific is en route to getting my money


I have MSS and I'm still planning on getting Pacific. MSS has lots of things Pacific doesn't. Like divisi and auto divisi and a ton of other stuff, control and flexibility. Pacific has ... pure gorgeousness. I'm so glad I got Vista, but it's "limited" in what it can do. Pacific has fewer limitations but it's still not as flexible and controllable as MSS ... yet it has other strengths I expect to enjoy (even if I don't "need" them). Just like I don't "need" a new M1 Pro MBP. Especially if I'm buying Pacific.


----------



## muziksculp

Vlzmusic said:


> n short, no, I wouldn't expect the demos to be inferior to the end release.


Well, this makes me wonder if he is still improving the libraries, compared to the way they were at Alpha stage, why would I not hear any improvements in the release version. Is he just wasting his time ? I doubt that's the case.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Well, this makes me wonder if he is still improving the libraries, compared to the way they were at Alpha stage, why would I not hear any improvements in the release version. Is he just wasting his time ? I doubt that's the case.


You wouldn’t necessarily hear improvements in programming because they often make things easier to execute rather than markedly changing the results.


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> You wouldn’t necessarily hear improvements in programming because they often make things easier to execute rather than markedly changing the results.


Don't understand what this means. Sorry.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Don't understand what this means. Sorry.


If it takes a lot of manual automation to get something to sound just so and then you add programming so you don’t have to do all that automation the final result may be identical but you get the result much faster with the programming. I’m not saying that is all or even most of what’s going on but your question was about what could be taking time that doesn’t affect the final results very much. If you can now produce in ten minutes what would have taken an hour that’s a real advance even though the sound hasn’t changed.


----------



## Soundbed

muziksculp said:


> Well, this makes me wonder if he is still improving the libraries, compared to the way they were at Alpha stage, why would I not hear any improvements in the release version. Is he just wasting his time ? I doubt that's the case.


I don't know if it's _always_ "improving" ... it might be "finishing". Like edges of ranges, instruments that weren't playing in a given demo, finishing some editing of certain samples that weren't in a demo. Quality control. Last minute tweaks that may or may not have been obviously noticed in a demo.


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> If it takes a lot of manual automation to get something to sound just so and then you add programming so you don’t have to do all that automation the final result may be identical but you get the result much faster with the programming. I’m not saying that is all or even most of what’s going on but your question was about what could be taking time that doesn’t affect the final results very much. If you can now produce in ten minutes what would have taken an hour that’s a real advance even though the sound hasn’t changed.


OK. I see what you mean, It's much clearer now. 

So, he is mainly improving the scripting to make it more playable, and needing less tweaking after it is played in. That makes sense. It's not an audible improvement. 

THANKS


----------



## Vlzmusic

We went into some rave speculations obviously, as no one really knows the Druids potion making process ))

My idea was simple actually - in PS products the demos may have many names, alpha, beta etc. but they usually do not sound radically "different" than they will in the actual library, I guess Jasper just doesn't show results until he really loves them. That's why - no matter how much work is done between demos and release - you should never expect the library to sound different, or necessarily better than the demos.

BTW you should always notice the demos info, as some tracks are single mic demos.


----------



## clonewar

I think a lot of library demos across the industry are made with what would technically be alpha/beta versions of the libraries, it’s just that Jasper specifically mentions it in his demo names.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Casiquire said:


> Interesting, I don't really hear it that way. To my ears, if anything, the surrounds sound too similar to the room mics. You're not a fan of the NSS ones? I don't own that one so i can't really speak to it. Overall though i do tend to use them at a low level, if at all


Oh, I like NSS surround mics. I like each mic position in it, but SCS surround often feels weird, too. Sprinkled in lightly it’s not bad, maybe the same with MSS mics.


----------



## NickDorito

This is worse than getting strung along by your crush for six months


----------



## JGRaynaud

clonewar said:


> I think a lot of library demos across the industry are made with what would technically be alpha/beta versions of the libraries, it’s just that Jasper specifically mentions it in his demo names.


Indeed. Almost all the demos in the industry are made with versions that aren't final (it can be almost final, though.)

I made demos for at least 10 different sampling companies over the years and made something like 35-40 demos overall and I think I had the final product only once or twice.

It makes sense to me since the demo writing is often part of the beta testing. This way the demo writers can find and report bugs during the writing process and help the sampling company with feedbacks (regarding issues, playability, etc..)


----------



## Sovereign

Not sure if this was already posted, but the prices for percussion are now up too.


----------



## FireGS

Sovereign said:


> Not sure if this was already posted, but the prices for percussion are now up too.


wow thats reasonable.


----------



## gst98

Sovereign said:


> Not sure if this was already posted, but the prices for percussion are now up too.


Wow yes, that is unbelievably reasonable. Not sure about the number of RR yet, but it looks to be a similar quantity of content to LAMP.


----------



## Soundbed

Sovereign said:


> Not sure if this was already posted, but the prices for percussion are now up too.


so low! wow.


----------



## Soundbed

JGRaynaud said:


> Indeed. Almost all the demos in the industry are made with versions that aren't final (it can be almost final, though.)
> 
> I made demos for at least 10 different sampling companies over the years and made something like 35-40 demos overall and I think I had the final product only once or twice.
> 
> It makes sense to me since the demo writing is often part of the beta testing. This way the demo writers can find and report bugs during the writing process and help the sampling company with feedbacks (regarding issues, playability, etc..)


You write great demos.

Can I ask you a mostly off topic question?

What is going through your mind when you write a demo for a strings library?

If the software developer doesn't give you any guidance, what are the main things you keep in mind when you sit down and say... "ok, let's start writing some demo music for this product"?


----------



## TomaeusD

Sovereign said:


> Not sure if this was already posted, but the prices for percussion are now up too.


Having just bought Perfperc Vol. III for the toms - and at $70 it was a bargain for the quality and playability, I think this will be Performance Samples' best value release. Is there a dedicated thread for the percussion yet?


----------



## JGRaynaud

Soundbed said:


> You write great demos.
> 
> Can I ask you a mostly off topic question?
> 
> What is going through your mind when you write a demo for a strings library?
> 
> If the software developer doesn't give you any guidance, what are the main things you keep in mind when you sit down and say... "ok, let's start writing some demo music for this product"?


Thanks ! 

Usually there aren't much guidance. The only thing to keep in mind is to feature the library well. Meaning not to hide it behind the other sections even if it means having an unrealistic balance, not to start with a 20-30 secondes intro that doesn't feature the library (it has to feature it almost immediately), stuff like that.

Like if you take my demos for Freyja and Wotan by Strezov Sampling, it's almost (or is) a capella choirs. This way the customers can hear what the product can really do without hiding the flaws. I also did the same for Vista, Con Moto or Synchron Brass for example.

I also tend to ask what musical direction the other demo writers are taking to show the library in a different context if it's relevant. It would be too bad to have all the demos in the same style while the library would be able to pull off other stuff.

But yeah when it comes to guidance there aren't much unless there is a specific request, which is rare. If I do so many demos it is because I like midi programming and take each demo as a personal challenge, but also because I'm pretty free and can write whatever I want. It's rare nowadays to be able to just write what you have in your mind without tough guidelines and I appreciate that. It's refreshing between two scoring gigs let's say.


----------



## Henning

JGRaynaud said:


> Thanks !
> 
> Usually there aren't much guidance. The only thing to keep in mind is to feature the library well. Meaning not to hide it behind the other sections even if it means having an unrealistic balance, not to start with a 20-30 secondes intro that doesn't feature the library (it has to feature it almost immediately), stuff like that.
> 
> Like if you take my demos for Freyja and Wotan by Strezov Sampling, it's almost (or is) a capella choirs. This way the customers can hear what the product can really do without hiding the flaws. I also did the same for Vista, Con Moto or Synchron Brass for example.
> 
> I also tend to ask what musical direction the other demo writers are taking to show the library in a different context if it's relevant. It would be too bad to have all the demos in the same style while the library would be able to pull off other stuff.
> 
> But yeah when it comes to guidance there aren't much unless there is a specific request, which is rare. If I do so many demos it is because I like midi programming and take each demo as a personal challenge, but also because I'm pretty free and can write whatever I want. It's rare nowadays to be able to just write what you have in your mind without tough guidelines and I appreciate that. It's refreshing between two scoring gigs let's say.


Couldn't have put it better!


----------



## WhiteNoiz

What was the median off percentage of this last sale? What about previous ones? Has anyone kept track? I think it was close to 50% off? Assuming there will be another one (even if in a year) wouldn't the prices be close to the loyalty ones? The percussion is very decently priced. However, even at 40% off, for example, it would come down to about 126...

Just wondering if it'd be wiser to just wait and see at this rate? Don't really need any of them, although I'd like to have them (duh). That's if we assume this collection won't also be discontinued at some point (which seems doubtful at the moment) or that the loyalty price will be the lowest you can get ever (like some sort of guarantee/assurance; has there been anything of the sort?).

Additionally, as good as the strings seem to be, there's some stuff you'd still expect for 500, even more so for 1000... Maybe 2nd violins (yes, the dynamic range is seemingly very good on the 1st ones, so one can assume that's where the tradeoff is, but still) or more variables on the shorts... Even a timestretch control would be good, but it seems we just get some basic controls. The sample offsets are a good addition, but it probably needs more. The sound was really good, but when testing I still felt the timing was kinda off (and as these are probably cut from timed repetitions, the start times could be more focused) and I still had to move one 16th off the grid for it to feel more in time, but that could just be me... And it was a quick test. The loop points were also pretty obvious on the longs. 

You would at least maybe expect some kind of add-on in the future or some kind of update, which isn't typical for previous releases. Maybe if the sales justify it... At this point, it still seems safer to just wait.

Still, the sound is really good, so, there's that. Just trying to weigh things... (And as good as this is, Voyage is still to be seen and that also seems very attractive... Apart form the price... Most likely. Still glad that both of these undertakings exist, for sure.)


----------



## handz

Sovereign said:


> Not sure if this was already posted, but the prices for percussion are now up too.


Very fair!


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if Pacific Strings will be released this month ?


----------



## Russell Anderson

I hope not. I need more time


----------



## Zanshin

Russell Anderson said:


> I hope not. I need more time


You should not have said that, now it will be released tomorrow!


----------



## Russell Anderson

Zanshin said:


> You should not have said that, now it will be released tomorrow!


Shit, I mean I can’t wait! Let’s have it yesterday!!!


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if Pacific Strings will be released this month ?


December for sure.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

OK.. While we wait for the release of Pacific Strings, either this month or next month (for sure). I was curious about what makes these strings so special for you, that you are ready to buy them as soon as they are released ? 

Is it mainly the Playability, Quality of the Legatos, The Shorts, ..etc . ? The large symphonic sound ? ...etc. ? 

So.. What is the most attractive characteristic/s of this library that have convinced you so far that it is worth buying ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Jack Weaver

What's the likelihood of potential buyers like myself getting a walkthru of each of the instruments before we have to decide on purchasing.

Yes, there are demos of some of the instruments on their site, but there is no simple, isolated VIDEO walkthru of (for example) violin legato, viola legato, cello legato or db legato using the final instruments.

I'm very interested but I really don't know what I would be buying.

Honestly, it makes me really hesitant.

.


----------



## Evans

Jack Weaver said:


> What's the likelihood of potential buyers like myself getting a walkthru of each of the instruments before we have to decide on purchasing.


That would almost definitely be up to one of the YouTubers out there like Dirk Ehlert, Daniel James, or Nathan Carlton.


----------



## Vlzmusic

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> OK.. While we wait for the release of Pacific Strings, either this month or next month (for sure). I was curious about what makes these strings so special for you, that you are ready to buy them as soon as they are released ?
> 
> Is it mainly the Playability, Quality of the Legatos, The Shorts, ..etc . ? The large symphonic sound ? ...etc. ?
> 
> So.. What is the most attractive characteristic/s of this library that have convinced you so far that it is worth buying ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


Usually PS products have one killer characteristic - they don't break the illusion of same instrument playing through the phrase, including positioning, flow, and color. Those are some of the few instruments you can leave naked.


----------



## muziksculp

Vlzmusic said:


> Usually PS products have one killer characteristic - they don't break the illusion of same instrument playing through the phrase, including positioning, flow, and color. Those are some of the few instruments you can leave naked.


THANKS  

I find that very interesting.


----------



## muziksculp

Do we know anything about what Key-Switches will be included in Pacific Strings ?


----------



## Russell Anderson

Jack Weaver said:


> What's the likelihood of potential buyers like myself getting a walkthru of each of the instruments before we have to decide on purchasing.
> 
> Yes, there are demos of some of the instruments on their site, but there is no simple, isolated VIDEO walkthru of (for example) violin legato, viola legato, cello legato or db legato using the final instruments.
> 
> I'm very interested but I really don't know what I would be buying.
> 
> Honestly, it makes me really hesitant.
> 
> .


If I’m not mistaken, the intro sale continues a week or two after release, and reviews/walkthroughs/first looks will be up immediately

I’m also still on the fence. Gotta lotta learnin to do asap, like not about Pacific even but about what I own so I can better answer your question for myself @muziksculp


----------



## FireGS

muziksculp said:


> Do we know anything about what Key-Switches will be included in Pacific Strings ?


Theres never keyswitches in PS libs


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> Theres never keyswitches in PS libs


Yes, I'm aware of that. But will this be the same for Pacific Strings ? I'm not sure about that.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Even if they come as single instrument it's so easy to build a multi and make your articulation maps in daws like Cubase, Studio One etc. Jasper is not the type to build fancy GUI so I'd get ready for the "worse" case scenario.


----------



## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> Is it mainly the Playability, Quality of the Legatos, The Shorts, ..etc . ? The large symphonic sound ? ...etc. ?


All that and the dynamic range of these instruments.


----------



## wlinart

muziksculp said:


> Yes, I'm aware of that. But will this be the same for Pacific Strings ? I'm not sure about that.





Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Even if they come as single instrument it's so easy to build a multi and make your articulation maps in daws like Cubase, Studio One etc. Jasper is not the type to build fancy GUI so I'd get ready for the "worse" case scenario.


flexrouter in kontakt could help for that: https://github.com/jtackaberry/flexrouter


----------



## muziksculp

wlinart said:


> flexrouter in kontakt could help for that: https://github.com/jtackaberry/flexrouter


No need for flexrouter, Studio One Pro 5.4.2, can even keyswitch via Midi Channels, I can construct a Kontakt-multi and assign each articulation a different midi-channel, and switch via Sound-Variations based on Midi channel assignments.

That's not an issue, I was just curious if Pacific Strings will have any key-switches. If not that's not a problem.


----------



## wlinart

muziksculp said:


> No need for flexrouter, Studio One Pro 5.4.2, can even keyswitch via Midi Channels, I can construct a Kontakt-multi and assign each articulation a different midi-channel, and switch via Sound-Variations based on Midi channel assignments.


True, so not having keyswitches shouldn't be a problem


----------



## muziksculp

So, @wlinart ,

What attracts you mostly to Pacific Strings ? Will you buy it as soon as it is released ?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

muziksculp said:


> No need for flexrouter, Studio One Pro 5.4.2, can even keyswitch via Midi Channels, I can construct a Kontakt-multi and assign each articulation a different midi-channel, and switch via Sound-Variations based on Midi channel assignments.
> 
> That's not an issue, I was just curious if Pacific Strings will have any key-switches. If not that's not a problem.


Might not be a bad idea to do it directly inside Kontakt using script like the one above. That way you can load it into an other daw if have to. You can still use sound variation with the script.


----------



## wlinart

muziksculp said:


> So, @wlinart ,
> 
> What attracts you mostly to Pacific Strings ? Will you buy it as soon as it is released ?


I absolutely love the demos, it just sound so "real" for lack of a better word. Will i buy it asap? No, but not because i don't want to, it's out of my budget at the moment.


----------



## muziksculp

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Might not be a bad idea to do it directly inside Kontakt using script like the one above. That way you can load it into an other daw if have to. You can still use sound variation with the script.


Thanks. I don't use any other DAW. Studio One Pro is my main, and only DAW.

OH, and I have other add-on tools for Kontakt to do that if I needed to.


----------



## gst98

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> OK.. While we wait for the release of Pacific Strings, either this month or next month (for sure). I was curious about what makes these strings so special for you, that you are ready to buy them as soon as they are released ?
> 
> Is it mainly the Playability, Quality of the Legatos, The Shorts, ..etc . ? The large symphonic sound ? ...etc. ?
> 
> So.. What is the most attractive characteristic/s of this library that have convinced you so far that it is worth buying ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


-Not just the playability, but the moldability - you can shape and layer the patches more than any other I know to get the exact sound you want. So many others fail the basic but important aspects such as proper attacks and releases that make the layering and shaping far more difficult.

-The amazing legatos yes, and the tons of dynamics. All while being very economical in terms of resources.

-The general editing and detail that is the best available along side CSS. VSL are also _very_ good in this regard, but IMHO take it too far with noise reduction, pitch correction and editing to the point where the soul is removed, and I love to hear all the noises

-And yes the large hall sound and the (mostly) very good engineering (some of his products are better engineered than others. I think partly I prefer this hall the other one he uses). Not only are the legatos amazing, but he is the only dev who's been able to make top-tier legatos that have a big hall tail in them, without them getting in the way, causing artefacts, smearing or imagining problems.

-And finally, to support a ridiculously hard-working and independent developer and musician who is continually pushing the boundaries where other devs stagnate and lack the motivation to innovate beyond the most basic of sampling techniques.


----------



## muziksculp

gst98 said:


> you can shape and layer the patches more than any other I know to get the exact sound you want. So many others fail the basic but important aspects such as proper attacks and releases that make the layering and shaping far more difficult.


Do you mean layering with other String libraries ?  Not sure I get what you mean by layering, and how do you control the Attacks and Releases in i.e. Pacific Strings ? via Velocity & Dynamics Control ? or ..?

I'm not sure why you are even discussing layering here. My question was about Pacific Strings not layered with anything else, if it is such an amazing strings library, why do I need to layer it with other libraries ?


----------



## gst98

muziksculp said:


> Do you mean layering with other String libraries ? Not sure I get what you mean by layering, and how do you control the Attacks and Releases in i.e. Pacific Strings ? via Velocity & Dynamics Control ? or ..?
> 
> I'm not sure why you are even discussing layering here. My question was about Pacific Strings not layered with anything else, if it is such an amazing strings library, why do I need to layer it with other libraries ?


No you’re missing the point. If you want to achieve any level of realism you will have to start layering articulations. If you’re not layering staccatos, marcatos and longs you are limiting yourself to the tiny snapshot of a performance that was captured in the sampling process. Nothing necessarily to do with layering other libraries together. But you could use staccatos from one library layered on the legatos of another as long as you blend appropriately. If previous JB libraries are anything to go by then you shouldn’t have to with Pacific, as it covers all the basics.

The reason they are so good at layering is they have instant, solid attacks that can be shaped with CC curves. This allows you to add staccatos and marcatos on the top. Many libraries have sustains with attacks that are too soft, and so you cannot add staccatos on top because you end up with a double attack on the note. Plenty of dynamics help with how much CC shaping you can realistically get away with 

PS libraries have multiple attacks recorded controlled by velocity


----------



## muziksculp

gst98 said:


> No you’re missing the point. If you want to achieve any level of realism you will have to start layering articulations. If you’re not layering staccatos, marcatos and longs you are limiting yourself to the tiny snapshot of a performance that was captured in the sampling process. Nothing necessarily to do with layering other libraries together. But you could use staccatos from one library layered on the legatos of another as long as you blend appropriately. If previous JB libraries are anything to go by then you shouldn’t have to with Pacific, as it covers all the basics.
> 
> The reason they are so good at layering is they have instant, solid attacks that can be shaped with CC curves. This allows you to add staccatos and marcatos on the top. Many libraries have sustains with attacks that are too soft, and so you cannot add staccatos on top because you end up with a double attack on the note. Plenty of dynamics help with how much CC shaping you can realistically get away with
> 
> PS libraries have multiple attacks recorded controlled by velocity


OK. I'm with you on all you mentioned here. I was just not very clear if you meant Layering with other libraries, or layering the articulations from the same library. I think both are options, but I was interested in knowing more about PS Pacific Strings, and what makes it so special, and your answer helped me understand what's special here. 

Thanks.


----------



## Scalms

Does anyone know where Pacific was recorded? I think perhaps they are not at liberty to reveal. But with a little detective work we can surmise where


----------



## Loerpert

Scalms said:


> Does anyone know where Pacific was recorded? I think perhaps they are not at liberty to reveal. But with a little detective work we can surmise where



"and was recorded in the same room as Fluid Shorts 2, as well as the now-discontinued Con Moto series, Caspian, and original Fluid Shorts – using an alternative technical and seating arrangement." Not sure what the name of that hall is though.


----------



## Scalms

Loerpert said:


> "and was recorded in the same room as Fluid Shorts 2, as well as the now-discontinued Con Moto series, Caspian, and original Fluid Shorts – using an alternative technical and seating arrangement." Not sure what the name of that hall is though.


my hunch is Smecky music studios in Czech republic. Check out the hall pictures. I think this is where the City of Prague Philharmonic orchestra records


----------



## CT

Hi, it's not Smecky. It is a hall in Jihlava.


----------



## lettucehat

Michaelt said:


> Hi, it's not Smecky. It is a hall in Jihlava.


Any idea what the other hall is? (Vista, Angry Brass Pro, Oceanias etc)


----------



## gst98

lettucehat said:


> Any idea what the other hall is? (Vista, Angry Brass Pro, Oceanias etc)


I’ve heard many saying it’s Zlin, but not sure if that was confirmed


----------



## Casiquire

Loerpert said:


> "and was recorded in the same room as Fluid Shorts 2, as well as the now-discontinued Con Moto series, Caspian, and original Fluid Shorts – using an alternative technical and seating arrangement." Not sure what the name of that hall is though.


What does that mean about the seating arrangement?


----------



## muziksculp

gst98 said:


> I’ve heard many saying it’s Zlin, but not sure if that was confirmed


Congress Hall, Zlin


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> What does that mean about the seating arrangement?


From the photos, pacific is recorded 90 degrees round from Con Moto


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> From the photos, pacific is recorded 90 degrees round from Con Moto


Ah, they mean alternative in reference to CM, not alternative as in unusual. Thanks!


----------



## Argy Ottas

gst98 said:


> 1st is CM, 2nd pacific


Great... Now I have to rotate my CM... Any good plugin suggested for doing that?


----------



## muziksculp

Argy Ottas said:


> Great... Now I have to rotate my CM... Any good plugin suggested for doing that?


Maybe MIR-Pro


----------



## Argy Ottas

May Jasper add a 360ᵒ Jihlava Hall IR???


----------



## filipjonathan

It would be nice if all developers followed the examples by ISW and (as of lately) Cinesamples and kept us informed regularly on what was going on so we don't just end up speculating.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Anticipation is half of the fun!


----------



## lettucehat

The Pacific page does tell you the production status of each section of the orchestra, that seems pretty fair to me.


----------



## Scalms

Michaelt said:


> Hi, it's not Smecky. It is a hall in Jihlava.


ahh, bingo, thanks for sharing this. And those chairs look sturdy, so I think we can count on keeping player squeakings to a minimum


----------



## CT

I've specifically requested more chair scrapes.


----------



## NickDorito

Apologies if this has already been asked but I haven't been able to find an answer.

Will there be an option to control the sample offset with a midi fader, like you could with fluid shorts? I noticed there didn't seem like there was a way to bind the sample offset in the demo patch.

This is pretty important for me, as I always pull my fader down before recording to quickly set the offset to 0, then put it back up to 140 when i'm done recording without having to open the kontakt instance.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Wow is this library a tease! Can't wait for it to be released, we're almost at the end of November! I wonder if in the end Jasper decided to release more than just the strings. Maybe he intends to release it simultaneously along with the percussion...either way, can't wait!


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Raphioli

I actually appreciate the fact that Jasper is someone who releases libraries when he feels sure that its done/complete.
By done, I mean meticulously going through all those dynamic layers for bad transitions/samples etc.

Because I feel like, "just releasing it to meet the deadline and fixing things afterwards" have become too common IMHO.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Raphioli said:


> I actually appreciate the fact that Jasper is someone who releases libraries when he feels sure that its done/complete.
> By done, I mean meticulously going through all those dynamic layers for bad transitions/samples etc.
> 
> Because I feel like, "just releasing it to meet the deadline and fixing things afterwards" have become too common IMHO.


Definitely. That's why I'll always support him and purchase his libraries. Putting aside the gorgeous sound and playability of course 😛


----------



## Sovereign

To be honest the length of the delay has surprised me though, it's been many weeks since he posted he had only the legatos to finish up. Guess he got caught in doing other stuff. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## handz

Argy Ottas said:


> May Jasper add a 360ᵒ Jihlava Hall IR???


WTF is Jihlava hall? :O


----------



## Russell Anderson

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> He got some hearing problems, maybe that delayed things.


!?

Hope he’s doing alright, I’d be worried if my ears did anything weird.


----------



## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> To be honest the length of the delay has surprised me though, it's been many weeks since he posted he had only the legatos to finish up. Guess he got caught in doing other stuff. 🤷‍♂️


Maybe he is delaying the release because of your strict Legato policing here on VI-C ?


----------



## Russell Anderson

If you want something to police, I’m considering MSS if it goes cheap enough, to flesh out Vista/NSS/SCS. Like, over Pacific. I know!!!!

But if I could a la carte those shorts and marcatos, I’d pay $200 for those alone. My time will come for Voyage/Pacific, I’m sure. God, more people need to sample this way, it’s so lovely. And triumphant!


----------



## Argy Ottas

handz said:


> WTF is Jihlava hall? :O


Ιn Jihlava, Czech Republic is the "mysterious" recording studio hall that Pacific and other previous goodies have been recorded.


----------



## Getsumen




----------



## Sunny Schramm

Getsumen said:


>


All the best for Jasper


----------



## Evans

Wow, Pacific Strings, Pacific Percussion, and Audio Imperia Chorus possibly within a month of each other.


----------



## Futchibon

Getsumen said:


>


That actually helps with cash flow, as buying MSS and Pacific together ain't cheap. Christmas may have to be cancelled this year, though!  I'm reminded of the Queen song 'I'm in love with my car':

'Told my girl I had to forget her,
rather buy me a new carburettor'

Or in my case:

'Told the gf there'd be no time for rings,
Gotta save up for Pacific Strings!'


----------



## muziksculp

What's going to be special/unique about Pacific Percussion ?


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> What's going to be special/unique about Pacific Percussion ?


Lot of great info here: https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific-percussion/

Bottom line? Lots of dynamics and RR, Jasper’s excellent repetition sampling built from actual performances, and the great room, which will blend organically with the other Pacific sections.


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> Lot of great info here: https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific-percussion/
> 
> Bottom line? Lots of dynamics and RR, Jasper’s excellent repetition sampling built from actual performances, and the great room, which will blend organically with the other Pacific sections.


THANKS 

Interesting that the Pacific-Percussion demos posted are Pre-Alpha. So, I wonder how much more work they need to be ready for release during Dec. , I also don't understand why Pacific Strings is tied to the release of Pacific-Perc. Why not just release the Strings first, then the Perc. when they are ready ?


----------



## Soundbed

Black Friday really won’t end for me until I have Pacific.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Soundbed said:


> Black Friday really won’t end for me until I have Pacific.


No Black Friday for me BECAUSE of Pacific


----------



## Russell Anderson

muziksculp said:


> THANKS
> 
> Interesting that the Pacific-Percussion demos posted are Pre-Alpha. So, I wonder how much more work they need to be ready for release during Dec. , I also don't understand why Pacific Strings is tied to the release of Pacific-Perc. Why not just release the Strings first, then the Perc. when they are ready ?


I would not consider them tied. I think they are just coming out at the same time, or close enough that he wants to make sure neither gets forgotten in the wake of the other. That’s the impression I was getting from the pricing being released as early as it was for percussion.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Evans said:


> Wow, Pacific Strings, Pacific Percussion, and Audio Imperia Chorus possibly within a month of each other.


Wait, that choir is coming out now? Not in like a year?

Holy crap let me go get more money

Also no wonder Jasper’s hearing has gone wonky, who knows how many hours he’s been putting in listening to drums strings voices and brass each day, who knows how many hours in headphones squeezing his head bones together and who knows how well he’s been eating/sleeping lmao while this has all been happening at once. I know all to well what the body starts doing when you start pushing too hard, for awhile


----------



## muziksculp

Russell Anderson said:


> I would not consider them tied. I think they are just coming out at the same time, or close enough that he wants to make sure neither gets forgotten in the wake of the other. That’s the impression I was getting from the pricing being released as early as it was for percussion.


OK, then that's good to know, and makes more sense to me. 

THANKS


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> THANKS
> 
> Interesting that the Pacific-Percussion demos posted are Pre-Alpha. So, I wonder how much more work they need to be ready for release during Dec. , I also don't understand why Pacific Strings is tied to the release of Pacific-Perc. Why not just release the Strings first, then the Perc. when they are ready ?


I think it is more that the strings have been delayed due to his hearing problems resulting in them coming out at the same time rather than strings first.


----------



## handz

Argy Ottas said:


> Ιn Jihlava, Czech Republic is the "mysterious" recording studio hall that Pacific and other previous goodies have been recorded.


I am from Czech Republic and I know Jihlava and I never heard about any studio hall there haha and I can't imagine how would anyone even think about Jihlava when recording some orchestra especially from another country. The only thing they have is a tiny space for chamber orchestra and this former cinema and gym space turned into a theatre hall -


----------



## Argy Ottas

handz said:


> I am from Czech Republic and I know Jihlava and I never heard about any studio hall there haha and I can't imagine how would anyone even think about Jihlava when recording some orchestra especially from another country. The only thing they have is a tiny space for chamber orchestra and this former cinema and gym space turned into a theatre hall -


----------



## handz

Argy Ottas said:


>


Oh so. It is not a special concert hall, it is a restaurant with space for balls, proms small expos and other events. But yeah, it looks cool and it is pity it is not a special concert hall - although I don't know about the acoustics there, I was at Jihlava many times but not in this space.

I really wonder how the hell they got such contract in Jihlava, that would never come to my mind as a place where sample libs being recorded in this country So the players are from Jihlava Filharmony?


----------



## gst98

handz said:


> Oh so. It is not a special concert hall, it is a restaurant with space for balls, proms small expos and other events. But yeah, it looks cool and it is pity it is not a special concert hall - although I don't know about the acoustics there, I was at Jihlava many times but not in this space.
> 
> I really wonder how the hell they got such contract in Jihlava, that would never come to my mind as a place where sample libs being recorded in this country So the players are from Jihlava Filharmony?


idc about it being a special hall, I much prefer the sound of everything that comes of this hall to his (or anyone one else's) recordings at Zlin. Jihlava has a longer tail, and less congestion that gives a slightly nasal tone to Vista. Comparing pacific cellos to SSS there really isn't much in it other than a bit shorter of a tail - but the depth to the room is very similar. probably due to the very high ceilings.

CM was Cappellen orchestra, and he's said these players are the most virtuosic he's recorded with before.


----------



## Argy Ottas

handz said:


> Oh so. It is not a special concert hall, it is a restaurant with space for balls, proms small expos and other events. But yeah, it looks cool and it is pity it is not a special concert hall - although I don't know about the acoustics there, I was at Jihlava many times but not in this space.
> 
> I really wonder how the hell they got such contract in Jihlava, that would never come to my mind as a place where sample libs being recorded in this country So the players are from Jihlava Filharmony?


Well, if it works, it works... No idea man about the players!


----------



## Argy Ottas

It would be nice for me to get married there. Then I could easily make a wedding track with Pacific playing in the ceremony. It would fit with the acoustics......


----------



## Russell Anderson

Argy Ottas said:


> It would be nice for me to get married there. Then I could easily make a wedding track with Pacific playing in the ceremony. It would fit with the acoustics......


You’d have the space being played into the space. I’d use a dry orchestra instead, though the speakers would need to be arranged such that the sound propogation into the room was comparable to that of the live instruments…

Or just, you know… You know what I’m saying


----------



## Argy Ottas

Russell Anderson said:


> You’d have the space being played into the space. I’d use a dry orchestra instead, though the speakers would need to be arranged such that the sound propogation into the room was comparable to that of the live instruments…
> 
> Or just, you know… You know what I’m saying


Never mentioned that I will use the ambient mics Russel. Never said that...


----------



## Russell Anderson

Argy Ottas said:


> Never mentioned that I will use the ambient mics Russel. Never said that...


I know I’m taking this all too literally, but the Lexicon HD Cartridge was apparently specially designed to be a live space enhancer and used some kind of live feedback with heavy modulation, if I’m not mistaken.

…

…science facts!

Also you shouldn’t probably let me near the punch bowl at your wedding. Anyway, the longer Pacific gets delayed, the more time I have to put NSS/SCS/Vista through their paces and decide whether Pacific is still something I’m wanting to put money into. So please, Jasper… rest long and hard.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Russell Anderson said:


> I know I’m taking this all too literally, but the Lexicon HD Cartridge was apparently specially designed to be a live space enhancer and used some kind of live feedback with heavy modulation, if I’m not mistaken.
> 
> …
> 
> …science facts!
> 
> Also you shouldn’t probably let me near the punch bowl at your wedding. Anyway, the longer Pacific gets delayed, the more time I have to put NSS/SCS/Vista through their paces and decide whether Pacific is still something I’m wanting to put money into. So please, Jasper… rest long and hard.


You are more than welcome in my marriage, but only with a Pacific verification... sorry...


----------



## Russell Anderson

We’re just gonna have to see how the chips fall… there are a few tricks up my sleeve, yet. My future with Pacific and/or MSS and/or Infinite Strings is not yet written. But I also think people may be sleeping on just how much slam and delicacy is packed into NSS, and SCS, when you start layering quiet, expanded-dynamics bartok pizz and col legno onto the marcatos and spiccs.


----------



## Nando Florestan

Argy Ottas said:


> You are more than welcome in my marriage


Weirdest proposal phrasing of the year...


----------



## Argy Ottas

Nando Florestan said:


> Weirdest proposal phrasing of the year...


I obviously meant the ceremony. He is welcome in my ceremony...


----------



## Raphioli

haha 
love the humor here


----------



## Russell Anderson

Argy Ottas said:


> I obviously meant the ceremony. He is welcome in my ceremony...


…Oh. Glad you felt the need to specify… Obviously you didn’t mean get married… haha, duh…


…I’m gonna be over by the punch bowl if anyone needs me, I’m fine


----------



## Argy Ottas

Russell Anderson said:


> …Oh. Glad you felt the need to specify… Obviously you didn’t mean get married… haha, duh…
> 
> 
> …I’m gonna be over by the punch bowl if anyone needs me, I’m fine


Thanks to @MusicalG who corrects my pathetic English... I am trying though


----------



## Nando Florestan

Your English is fine, I just saw a joke I could make and wrote it. Really, your English is good, don't worry.


----------



## Argy Ottas

@Nando Florestan no hard feeling man don't worry. I can marry you too if you want LOL


----------



## FireGS

Enjoy! Those pizz sound great.


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> Enjoy! Those pizz sound great.



Yes, both the Pizz. and Trems sound very good. The Tremolo Dynamics are impressive. 

I wonder if the Pizz. are played on a full ensemble patch that covers the full range of the strings ?


----------



## FireGS

muziksculp said:


> Yes, both the Pizz. and Trems sound very good.
> 
> I wonder if the Pizz. are played on a full ensemble patch that covers the full range of the strings ?


Seems like it. I'm pretty sure there's full ensemble patches as well as sections. Cool for sketching!


----------



## Futchibon

FireGS said:


> Enjoy! Those pizz sound great.


Trems too!


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> Seems like it. I'm pretty sure there's full ensemble patches as well as sections. Cool for sketching!


Yup. Because of the way the pizz. are played in a flowing manner over the range of the sections, would point to a full ensemble patch being played, rather than individual Pizz. sections. We shall know when it's released. I have to be patient.


----------



## TomaeusD

Those tremolos got me trembling


----------



## Futchibon

TomaeusD said:


> Those tremolos got me trembling


Trembelos?


----------



## muziksculp

Me want Pacific Kahuna Strings NOW ! With Big Trembolos


----------



## Evans

Ah, cripes. The range and smoothness on the trems are pretty good. It makes it kind of depressing to run tests on my own libraries.


----------



## muziksculp

Evans said:


> It makes it kind of depressing to run tests on my own libraries.


Haha.. they won't measure up to Pacific. 

I had the same first thought about how good they are, compared to what my current libraries offer in terms of dynamic range of the Trems.


----------



## CT

Yeah even in a much earlier form the strings were making me really dislike certain aspects of other libraries.


----------



## muziksculp

Pacific Strings demos are already spoiling us.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Haha.. they won't measure up to Pacific.
> 
> I had the same first thought about how good they are, compared to what my current libraries offer in terms of dynamic range of the Trems.


It sounds like you will be purchasing Pacific?


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> It sounds like you will be purchasing Pacific?


Yes, I already pre-ordered it. (In my mind)


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Yes, I already pre-ordered it. (In my mind)


So in your mind I'm guessing you've pre-pre-pre-ordered the Spitfire AR1 modular orchestra?


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> So in your mind I'm guessing you've pre-pre-pre-ordered the Spitfire AR1 modular orchestra?


Yup that one is also Pre-Pre-Pre Ordered (in my mind)


----------



## Sovereign

Just great, more teasing from Jasper. Please stop.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Sovereign said:


> Just great, more teasing from Jasper. Please stop.


When you’re so hyped that it hurts inside


----------



## Sovereign

Russell Anderson said:


> When you’re so hyped that it hurts inside


Deeply.


----------



## Nando Florestan

If I am being honest though, the pizz patch sounds way heavy, I never hear pizz like that in classical music. I don't mean heavy in dynamics, I mean it in some other aspect -- EQ? Number of players? I don't know.

The trem patch sounds awesome.


----------



## Stevie

Pizz is always a problem for me. My best bet was to use Spitfire Chamber Strings for that (because of the smaller ensemble size). I have yet to hear an ensemble pizz that sounds delicate enough, tho.
Maybe the lack of dynamics is a problem here.

EDIT: having actually listened to the pizz demo (I know, I know....): at 0:44 the pizz sounds very convincing to me.


----------



## Russell Anderson

I might need to listen again, but I thought it got pretty soft.

Wouldn’t matter for me anyway between SCS and NSS, I’ve got a lot of pizz.


----------



## gst98

Stevie said:


> Pizz is always a problem for me. My best bet was to use Spitfire Chamber Strings for that (because of the smaller ensemble size). I have yet to hear an ensemble pizz that sounds delicate enough, tho.
> Maybe the lack of dynamics is a problem here.


Is 9 not enough?


----------



## Stevie

I actually like the Adlib Pizz demo more 
But yeah, I guess 9 should be plenty.


----------



## Evans

Trem testing my own libraries basically went like this (no audio posting because it was more like bug testing than musical and nothing was saved):

Library A: jumpy crossfading, but nicely large range
Library B: smooth, but golly the range is limited... is this just one layer?
Library C: sounds like it was recorded in a tin can
Library D: I hate myself
Library E: I hate the world

I was planning on upgrading to SCS Pro and doing a few other things for BF/CM. Now I'm back to looking at this damn thing.


----------



## Soundbed

FireGS said:


> Enjoy! Those pizz sound great.



Wow it feels like I’ve never heard tremolos before. I feel like a tremolo virgin.


----------



## lucor

Sorry if this has been asked before, but does anyone know how the marcatos work in Pacific? Do they have round robins and the same release technology like in his playable brass libraries (Angry Brass Pro etc.)? Having a playable patch like the one in Adventure Strings (but with more dynamic range) would make this library even more exciting than it already is.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Stevie said:


> Pizz is always a problem for me. My best bet was to use Spitfire Chamber Strings for that (because of the smaller ensemble size). I have yet to hear an ensemble pizz that sounds delicate enough, tho.
> Maybe the lack of dynamics is a problem here.
> 
> EDIT: having actually listened to the pizz demo (I know, I know....): at 0:44 the pizz sounds very convincing to me.


Honestly SCS and Albion One pizz is some of the best ones I've heard


----------



## gst98

lucor said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before, but does anyone know how the marcatos work in Pacific? Do they have round robins and the same release technology like in his playable brass libraries (Angry Brass Pro etc.)? Having a playable patch like the one in Adventure Strings (but with more dynamic range) would make this library even more exciting than it already is.


His style of marcato are very playable, but not exactly like Angry Brass or Caspian etc. Those are marcatos with multiple styles of attacks and releases - same idea as musical sampling I think. 

Pacific marcatos are multi dynamics, and I think multi RR too. There will be variance in the attacks depending on dynamic, but not the variable attacks of AB. You have the spiccatos to layer on the marcatos too if needed, and I think the same release technology is on most long patches. You will absolutely be able to achieve the same results, but they are separated and not in a smart all in one patch as with AB.

The legatos (like vista) do feature multiple attacks though. Vista is extremely playable in that way and is very marcato like at the higher dynamics without even layering other articulations on top.

Look at the Nashville strings walkthrough, the marcatos are the same style but more deeply sampled.


----------



## lucor

gst98 said:


> His style of marcato are very playable, but not exactly like Angry Brass or Caspian etc. Those are marcatos with multiple styles of attacks and releases - same idea as musical sampling I think.
> 
> Pacific marcatos are multi dynamics, and I think multi RR too. There will be variance in the attacks depending on dynamic, but not the variable attacks of AB. You have the spiccatos to layer on the marcatos too if needed, and I think the same release technology is on most long patches. You will absolutely be able to achieve the same results, but they are separated and not in a smart all in one patch as with AB.
> 
> The legatos (like vista) do feature multiple attacks though. Vista is extremely playable in that way and is very marcato like at the higher dynamics without even layering other articulations on top.
> 
> Look at the Nashville strings walkthrough, the marcatos are the same style but more deeply sampled.


I actually have NSS. I don't really like the marcatos in there, but that's mostly due lack of dynamic range and no RR's. In Pacific there seem to be plenty of dynamics (5 layers). If he also recorded round robins, they would be just what I'm looking for!  And yes, layering the spiccatos on top should make them even more versatile!


----------



## Argy Ottas

I am almost sure that I can hear RR's marcatos at 0:02 to 0:04


----------



## gst98

lucor said:


> I actually have NSS. I don't really like the marcatos in there, but that's mostly due lack of dynamic range and no RR's. In Pacific there seem to be plenty of dynamics (5 layers). If he also recorded round robins, they would be just what I'm looking for!  And yes, layering the spiccatos on top should make them even more versatile!


I find marcato is a really underserved articulation, most libraries seem to be very lacking in dynamics and RR, often both - even then they usually have weird attacks or sluggish releases



Argy Ottas said:


> I am almost sure that I can hear RR's marcatos at 0:02 to 0:04



Yeah I'm fairly certain there are RRs


----------



## Paul Jelfs

I often find that many great String , and other Orchestral libraries, spend a great deal of time getting the Legato, Sustains and Shorts correct, but miss out on those mid length notes that are hard to fake convincingly. 

Some call them Martele, or Detache , perhaps portato but most just miss them out which is a shame, because there is a lot of expression possibilities between a short staccato and and a long sustained note! 

Off topic a bit, but still part of the string discussion, it would be nice if CSS strings had Repeatitions like the brass and (I believe ) WW - rather than just measured. That would be a useful inclusion and probably not too difficult.


----------



## dzilizzi

Well, looks like I'm not getting MSS yet. So Pacific may be in my near future.....

Edit: Whoops! spoke too early. Sale doesn't start until tomorrow.


----------



## CT

Paul Jelfs said:


> I often find that many great String , and other Orchestral libraries, spend a great deal of time getting the Legato, Sustains and Shorts correct, but miss out on those mid length notes that are hard to fake convincingly.
> 
> Some call them Martele, or Detache , perhaps portato but most just miss them out which is a shame, because there is a lot of expression possibilities between a short staccato and and a long sustained note!


I agree, and it is my opinion that the "marcato" articulation in Pacific fills this common gap very well.


----------



## muziksculp

Argy Ottas said:


> I am almost sure that I can hear RR's marcatos at 0:02 to 0:04



Nice, but more Marcato demos, without brass would be cool.


----------



## Futchibon

dzilizzi said:


> Well, looks like I'm not getting MSS yet. So Pacific may be in my near future.....
> 
> Edit: Whoops! spoke too early. Sale doesn't start until tomorrow.


22 hrs 39 minues to go....Not that I'm obsessed or anything...


----------



## Niv Schrieber

New freebie coming very soon, apparently chamber Violins shorts! Wonder if it's from a future library or some kind of canceled project...


----------



## Argy Ottas

Niv Schrieber said:


> New freebie coming very soon, apparently chamber Violins shorts! Wonder if it's from a future library or some kind of canceled project...


We have the first patch!

**


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Argy Ottas said:


> We have the first patch!
> 
> **



Sounds like it's going to be awesome to layer it along with pacific's shorts! and its free! Tasty


----------



## Argy Ottas

Niv Schrieber said:


> Sounds like it's going to be awesome to layer it along with pacific's shorts! and its free! Tasty


Listening to the Voyage violas short test on PS Soundcloud make me almost sure that the freebie is an harbinger of Voyage


----------



## FireGS

What is *this* now... oh cmon........

Sounds great.


----------



## muziksculp

Niv Schrieber said:


> New freebie coming very soon, apparently chamber Violins shorts! Wonder if it's from a future library or some kind of canceled project...


Where did you see this Info ?


----------



## Niv Schrieber

muziksculp said:


> Where did you see this Info ?


Jasper's stories on facebook and Instagram.


----------



## muziksculp

Niv Schrieber said:


> Jasper's stories on facebook and Instagram.


Any stories about when Pacific Strings will be released ?


----------



## Niv Schrieber

muziksculp said:


> Any stories about when Pacific Strings will be released ?


Nope! believe me, if he will make a story about that,I'll post about it! He did however had a story yesterday about his new collaboration with audio imperia and their choir library. A short 30 seconds demo with strings (possibly pacific) and the choir Oh legato patch. Sounded incredibly good.


----------



## muziksculp

Niv Schrieber said:


> Nope! believe me, if he will make a story about that,I'll post about it! He did however had a story yesterday about his new collaboration with audio imperia and their choir library. A short 30 seconds demo with strings (possibly pacific) and the choir Oh legato patch. Sounded incredibly good.


Thanks. I hope we are not too far away from Pacific Strings release.


----------



## Evans

muziksculp said:


> Thanks. I hope we are not too far away from Pacific Strings release.


I believe Jasper chimed in on a Discord server somewhere (I don't recall which one) that it would be no earlier than December 16th.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

muziksculp said:


> Thanks. I hope we are not too far away from Pacific Strings release.


Someone wrote here not too long ago that Jasper said do not expect it before December 16. But everything can change. Crossing fingers!


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Evans said:


> I believe Jasper chimed in on a Discord server somewhere (I don't recall which one) that it would be no earlier than December 16th.


Beat me to it 😎


----------



## muziksculp

Not before Dec. 16th could also mean we might not see it released until 2022.

Honestly, it doesn't say much to me, except that it keeps getting delayed further, and further.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

muziksculp said:


> Not before Dec. 16th could also mean we might not see it released until 2022.
> 
> Honestly, it doesn't say much to me, except that it keeps getting delayed further, and further.


Well,Jasper is a one man show after all and he is dealing with an ongoing hearing issue, so it's understandable. Not to mention he is working on a lot of projects simultaneously, naming the pacific orchestra,voyage orchestra, a choir library with A.I, and possibly more projects that have not yet been announced...I only hope his ears recover and that he is well treated.


----------



## muziksculp

Niv Schrieber said:


> Well,Jasper is a one man show after all and he is dealing with an ongoing hearing issue, so it's understandable. Not to mention he is working on a lot of projects simultaneously, naming the pacific orchestra,voyage orchestra, a choir library with A.I, and possibly more projects that have not yet been announced...I only hope his ears recover and that he is well treated.


I understand, and I'm aware about his hearing issue, but there is a limit of how much one can stretch themselves with workload, and how time is managed. I feel working on too many projects simultaneously could be counterproductive. But that's not my business.


----------



## Russell Anderson

Pacific sounds so good, so I've pretty much made up my mind on Pacific as MY LAST BF PURCHASE OF ALL

Unfortunately for MSS it'll be up to SCS and the coming Infinite Strings to handle runs, up to my own sound design to handle aleatorics (I've always loved that anyway) and up to... lots of layering to handle ostenatos lol


----------



## gst98

Russell Anderson said:


> Pacific sounds so good, so I've pretty much made up my mind on Pacific as MY LAST BF PURCHASE OF ALL
> 
> Unfortunately for MSS it'll be up to SCS and the coming Infinite Strings to handle runs, up to my own sound design to handle aleatorics (I've always loved that anyway) and up to... lots of layering to handle ostenatos lol


Thing about the MSS ostinato feature is it's so limiting to what you want to write. Just listening to the LASS 3 walkthrough it's reminded me how good it is at that sort of thing. The tone and the legato is so much better than MSS as well.


----------



## Getsumen

For the curious ones, the freebie is not from Voyage


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Getsumen said:


> For the curious ones, the freebie is not from Voyage


So...a new chamber strings library as well , recordings specifically for a freebie or a canceled full project? Hmm...


----------



## gst98

Niv Schrieber said:


> So...a new chamber strings library as well , recordings specifically for a freebie or a canceled full project? Hmm...


probably test sessions


----------



## muziksculp

What's the name of JB's , or Perf. Samples Discord server ?


----------



## gst98

muziksculp said:


> What's the name of JB's , or Perf. Samples Discord server ?


oh no, poor jasper :(


----------



## Russell Anderson

gst98 said:


> oh no, poor jasper :(


WHEN IS PACIFIC RELEASE DATE
UPDATE
WHAT IS ETA FOR PACIFIC
DO YOU KNOW WHEN PACIFIC IS COMING OUT
Hey, Jasper, hope things are going well! Hope your hearing problem is treated with utmost care and attPACIFIC RELEASE DATE UPDATE PLEASE aDVISE


----------



## Russell Anderson

I won't deny I am curious about said discord server as well, but I'd be so afraid 98.9% of what I submit would be spam and detract from my carefully curated public image


----------



## Evans

I think it's someone else's server that he pops into on extremely rare occasion.


----------



## FireGS

Evans said:


> I think it's someone else's server that he pops into on extremely rare occasion.


its the VI-C discord.


----------



## Evans

FireGS said:


> its the VI-C discord.


It was not. He hasn't posted there in a while.


----------



## Getsumen

It's a secret! Buy me all of the PS products and I'll tell you!

On a more serious note though it's probably something none of ya'll expected, the Alex Moukala Composers Crew discord.

Must admit it threw me for a loop when I saw him there for the first time as well lol. He hangs around in the vst-software-talk channel once and a while


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Not before Dec. 16th could also mean we might not see it released until 2022.
> 
> Honestly, it doesn't say much to me, except that it keeps getting delayed further, and further.


Dec 16 makes senses; Jasper ran his pre-BF sale just before other developers started their BF sales, so pre-empting the Christmas sales would be a great idea too. 

Seems he's a savvy businessman as well as greeat composer/developer


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Dec 16 makes senses; Jasper ran his pre-BF sale just before other developers started their BF sales, so pre-empting the Christmas sales would be a great idea too.
> 
> Seems he's a savvy businessman as well as greeat composer/developer


We shall see.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Where did you see this Info ?


You need to get your a$$ on Facebook 😂


----------



## Argy Ottas

Having some fun already!
I also layered some Pacific (Freebie) Celli on top. They match pretty good 





__





Chamber Violins – Classical Shorts – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## muziksculp

Argy Ottas said:


> Having some fun already!
> I also layered some Pacific (Freebie) Celli on top. They match pretty good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamber Violins – Classical Shorts – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com


Lovely sounding violins shorts. Thanks for sharing.  

I just got the email to download them. Didn't get any of the other Pacific Freebie stuff. But I will test these shorts with other libraries.


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> You need to get your a$$ on Facebook 😂


Thanks I just got my a$$ there.


----------



## Futchibon




----------



## muziksculp

Q. What are the included 3-Violin FFF Legato Overlay in Pacific Strings supposed to offer ? 

More definition, and punch to the 1st violins, maybe additional timbral color, if you dynamically mix them in, or .. .? 

I'm guessing the Violins I & II go to a FFF dynamic as well. So this overlay is to layer/mix with the legato violins for additional timbral control ?


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Q. What are the included 3-Violin FFF Legato Overlay in Pacific Strings supposed to offer ?
> 
> More definition, and punch to the 1st violins, maybe additional timbral color, if you dynamically mix them in, or .. .?
> 
> I'm guessing the Violins I & II go to a FFF dynamic as well. So this overlay is to layer/mix with the legato violins for additional timbral control ?


Vista has a similar patch and it is my favorite patch of that library. It's great to layer on a soaring string line giving detail and energy.


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing the Violins I & II go to a FFF dynamic as well.


No 2nd violins in Pacfic


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> No 2nd violins in Pacfic


Ooups .. Yes, I forgot about that detail.


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Vista has a similar patch and it is my favorite patch of that library. It's great to layer on a soaring string line giving detail and energy.


Thanks for the helpful feedback.


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Ooups .. Yes, I forgot about that detail.


But you do get a harp


----------



## muziksculp

So, maybe one can use this 3 Vln Overlay with one instance of Pacific Vlns 1, and keep the second instance without it, to emulate Vlns 2. Just another way to get around the omission of 2nd violins.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> So, maybe one can use this 3 Vln Overlay with one instance of Pacific Vlns 1, and keep the second instance without it, to emulate Vlns 2. Just another way to get around the omission of 2nd violins.


I don't know if that would work. You'd still have two instances of the same samples, just one would had the additional 3 violin patch. Best to stick with the transpose trick I think, and perhaps we can persuade Jasper to add a transpose button in a future update.


----------



## Russell Anderson

A little bit of close mic panning might also help


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> I don't know if that would work. You'd still have two instances of the same samples, just one would had the additional 3 violin patch. Best to stick with the transpose trick I think, and perhaps we can persuade Jasper to add a transpose button in a future update.


Maybe, although I would guess that the composite of both the Overlay, and VLS1 will produce a new hybrid waveform that is quite different from the one without the Overlay, since waveforms do mask and interact with each other, the overlayed version would behave like a totally different complex waveform, and not cause any phasing.


----------



## Argy Ottas

muziksculp said:


> Maybe, although I would guess that the composite of both the Overlay, and VLS1 will produce a new hybrid waveform that is quite different from the one without the Overlay, since waveforms do mask and interact with each other, the overlayed version would behave like a totally different complex waveform, and not cause any phasing.


Big brain 🧠 here!


----------



## Russell Anderson

The only thing is that adding the FFF overlay would not change the v1 patch, it would just be an overlay. So any issues resulting from the two v1 patches playing simultaneously would still be present. In my ignorance, from what I understand, violin two players tend to play darker anyway,… Probably not, yeah, I really have no idea. But the transposition trick seems to be the way to go


----------



## muziksculp

Russell Anderson said:


> But the transposition trick seems to be the way to go


I agree, and it's easy to do. 

I was just trying to get creative, but I will give it a try anyways, once I have Pacific installed next month


----------



## dzilizzi

Argy Ottas said:


> Having some fun already!
> I also layered some Pacific (Freebie) Celli on top. They match pretty good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chamber Violins – Classical Shorts – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com


Thanks for the link. But, dang, no refunds or support. What if I don't like it? What if there are problems with it?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

dzilizzi said:


> Thanks for the link. But, dang, no refunds or support. What if I don't like it? What if there are problems with it?


And what if there's noises?


----------



## dzilizzi

It just cracks me up that I have to check all the boxes even if it is free.


----------



## CT

I finally got all the Abbey Road stuff and I'm pretty surprised/delighted at how nicely Pacific strings works with that. The balance is already there for the most part, with maybe a few db of adjustment possible. Just gotta set the AR mics up in a complimentary way and you're in business. 

These are the two VI projects that excite me the most (and at all, really) for the foreseeable future, so finding that they blend so satisfyingly is just fantastic.


----------



## muziksculp

Michaelt said:


> I finally got all the Abbey Road stuff and I'm pretty surprised/delighted at how nicely Pacific strings works with that. The balance is already there for the most part, with maybe a few db of adjustment possible. Just gotta set the AR mics up in a complimentary way and you're in business.
> 
> These are the two VI projects that excite me the most (and at all, really) for the foreseeable future, so finding that they blend so satisfyingly is just fantastic.


Thanks for the positive feedback. 

Are you testing AR-1 Foundation, with Pacific Strings Freebies ?


----------



## Soundbed

Michaelt said:


> I finally got all the Abbey Road stuff and I'm pretty surprised/delighted at how nicely Pacific strings works with that. The balance is already there for the most part, with maybe a few db of adjustment possible. Just gotta set the AR mics up in a complimentary way and you're in business.
> 
> These are the two VI projects that excite me the most (and at all, really) for the foreseeable future, so finding that they blend so satisfyingly is just fantastic.


rub it in why don't ya


----------



## Argy Ottas

Michaelt said:


> I finally got all the Abbey Road stuff and I'm pretty surprised/delighted at how nicely Pacific strings works with that. The balance is already there for the most part, with maybe a few db of adjustment possible. Just gotta set the AR mics up in a complimentary way and you're in business.
> 
> These are the two VI projects that excite me the most (and at all, really) for the foreseeable future, so finding that they blend so satisfyingly is just fantastic.


Exactly what I was planning to buy except from Pacific. Abbey Road is the only library that has piqued my interest and I was thinking about layering with pacific too. Glad that I hear positive results by you Michael . Unfortunately have to wait for another AROOF sale as all my current budget goes to Jasper


----------



## ZeeCount

Getting closer!


----------



## Eptesicus

ZeeCount said:


> Getting closer!




He's going to get sued by Zimmer and the BBC's Blue Planet 2 if he isn't careful.

Sounds wonderful.


----------



## muziksculp

Waiting for Pacific Strings is Getting Tenser


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Waiting for Pacific Strings is Getting Tenser


----------



## pawelmorytko

Michaelt said:


> I finally got all the Abbey Road stuff and I'm pretty surprised/delighted at how nicely Pacific strings works with that. The balance is already there for the most part, with maybe a few db of adjustment possible. Just gotta set the AR mics up in a complimentary way and you're in business.
> 
> These are the two VI projects that excite me the most (and at all, really) for the foreseeable future, so finding that they blend so satisfyingly is just fantastic.


Same here, like sure I might sometimes be intrigued when something new comes out from other developers like the AV Infinite stuff or Tokyo Scoring Strings. But I'm never tempted enough to go through with it, my heart right now is with Pacific and Abbey Road Modular when it comes to orchestral stuff. They both have a similar tone as well which I love, the big hall, large symphonic sections kind of tone.

So I honestly could not care less about anything else when it comes to orchestral sampling. I've got enough libraries to keep me going, but how could I commit to something else from another developer when I _know _those libraries are coming..._ soon _


----------



## dzilizzi

Futchibon said:


>


You obviously haven't watched sailing videos. The Pacific is not that calm and tension free....


----------



## muziksculp

I have already purchased SSD Drives for AR-1 Modular. Getting ready to be house them whenever they are released. 

PS Pacific Strings is already purchased in my mind, and has it's SSD space reserved for it, whenever it is released, hopefully soon.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> You obviously haven't watched sailing videos. The Pacific is not that calm and tension free....


Yeah.. The Pacific Ocean is not a lake.


----------



## Futchibon

dzilizzi said:


> You obviously haven't watched sailing videos. The Pacific is not that calm and tension free....


Looks pretty calm to me 




Kidding, I live on the East coast of Australia and dip my toes in the Pacific almost daily. Sharks are the least of your problems compared to the rips


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> I have already purchased SSD Drives for AR-1 Modular. Getting ready to be house them whenever they are released.
> 
> PS Pacific Strings is already purchased in my mind, and has it's SSD space reserved for it, whenever it is released, hopefully soon.


Excellent. It appears you have made the decision to purchase this glorious library known as Pacific. Together, we shall wait in glorious anticipation for that day.


----------



## lucor

How much do we know about Pacific Brass so far? I'm guessing it will work similar to his previous brass libraries?

While I'm very excited about the strings, I've been craving for a 'playable' brass library in the same vein as Angry Brass Pro/Caspian, but with a ton of round robins and dynamic layers.


----------



## Futchibon

Russell Anderson said:


> Pacific sounds so good, so I've pretty much made up my mind on Pacific as MY LAST BF PURCHASE OF ALL
> 
> Unfortunately for MSS it'll be up to SCS and the coming Infinite Strings to handle runs, up to my own sound design to handle aleatorics (I've always loved that anyway) and up to... lots of layering to handle ostenatos lol


No MSS?!?!?!?!?!


----------



## Russell Anderson

Futchibon said:


> No MSS?!?!?!?!?!


I’m actually not even getting Pacific, I need to save for transmission repair (it’s probably a chip malfunction judging by behavior so it won’t cost the full $3.4k I’m imagining it will… please)

Also, I have a crapton of new stuff and my strings are already pretty good, so I’m just going to take the next sale when I feel like it’ll be more worthwhile. Lots of stuff I can/should do like finish off student loans, create a safety net esp. if I try to leave my job for this any time in the next year


----------



## Eptesicus

Real shame there is no 2nd violins for the money.


----------



## daan1412

I'm starting to think about getting Pacific Strings, but I would have to know more about brass and woodwinds before I decide. With library this big and expensive, I would like it to be an investment, in the sense that the other sections match its capabilities, so I could end up with a cohesive, all-around orchestra. If there's no legato for brass it could be a deal breaker for me, I'm afraid.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Eptesicus said:


> Real shame there is no 2nd violins for the money.


Odd


----------



## GregStuckey

daan1412 said:


> I'm starting to think about getting Pacific Strings, but I would have to know more about brass and woodwinds before I decide. With library this big and expensive, I would like it to be an investment, in the sense that the other sections match its capabilities, so I could end up with a cohesive, all-around orchestra. If there's no legato for brass it could be a deal breaker for me, I'm afraid.


my understanding is that because voyage is full sized orchestral winds and brass, more in line with pacific, he's instead done a caspian-pro style in the pacific brass and winds. There is even some round robin legato in the winds


----------



## wunderflo

unfortunately, the website now says:

"Release ETAs

Strings, Percussion, Brass, and Woodwinds: Speculatively beginning in Q1 2022 with strings & percussion"

After Jasper started to post the (amazing sounding) articulation demos on Insta, I actually assumed it'd be released very soon. :(


----------



## muziksculp

wunderflo said:


> unfortunately, the website now says:
> 
> "Release ETAs
> 
> Strings, Percussion, Brass, and Woodwinds: Speculatively beginning in Q1 2022 with strings & percussion"
> 
> After Jasper started to post the (amazing sounding) articulation demos on Insta, I actually assumed it'd be released very soon. :(


Oh.. the wait for Pacific Strings is getting longer. Kind of sad, but good for my wallet.

Thanks for the heads up on this. I wonder what's the reason for the extra long delay to release Pacific Strings ?


----------



## artomatic

On a positive note (for me), this'll give me more time to recoup from BF.


----------



## Hunter123

artomatic said:


> On a positive note (for me), this'll give me more time to recoup from BF.


I know right me too


----------



## Raphioli

wunderflo said:


> unfortunately, the website now says:
> 
> "Release ETAs
> 
> Strings, Percussion, Brass, and Woodwinds: Speculatively beginning in Q1 2022 with strings & percussion"
> 
> After Jasper started to post the (amazing sounding) articulation demos on Insta, I actually assumed it'd be released very soon. :(


damn

Thats unfortunate.
I think the last thing we've heard about it was that, majority of the library was finished,
but the legatos needed more tweaking.
I guess this means the legatos need further tweaking(?).
I appreciate the dedication and enthusiasm.
Wish more developers were like him.


----------



## muziksculp

But, Sometimes over tweaking doesn't produce better results.


----------



## Scalms

Maybe he's reading the posts over on the SINE Berlin threads and getting all panicky-pete with his legatos


----------



## Futchibon

wunderflo said:


> Strings, Percussion, Brass, and Woodwinds: Speculatively beginning in Q1 2022 with strings & percussion"


----------



## CT

Scalms said:


> Maybe he's reading the posts over on the SINE Berlin threads and getting all panicky-pete with his legatos


The legatos were better than anything from OT even in Alpha form.


----------



## muziksculp

Michaelt said:


> The legatos were better than anything from OT even in Alpha form.


So if that's the case, what's holding back the release ?


----------



## Evans

muziksculp said:


> So if that's the case, what's holding back the release ?


Wasn't it made clear in pretty recent pages (problems with his hearing) and you even responded to it? Seems like a pretty big disruption to getting things wrapped up.


----------



## Futchibon

He's also working on the Audio Imperia choir, which is due out this month.


----------



## Zanshin

I'm a-ok with however long it takes.


----------



## dzilizzi

I'm not in a hurry. I have libraries I've barely touched. I'm really not in a hurry.


----------



## Futchibon

dzilizzi said:


> I'm not in a hurry. I have libraries I've barely touched. I'm really not in a hurry.


Like Stratus?  You probably have some you don't even know about!


----------



## muziksculp

Yes, no rush, especially if the delay is due to Jasper's hearing issue.

I don't know how much time he is giving his ears a break, because our sensory organs need a good long break if they are overworked, giving them more work while they are not at their optimal state, will only degrade them, or make recovery slower than it should take.

I know this from my personal experience with health issues, not just hearing, but talking as well. But I don't want to get into my experiences here. I just wanted to mention this important detail. Because it is related to the topic.


----------



## dzilizzi

Futchibon said:


> Like Stratus?  You probably have some you don't even know about!


True! I've been reloading my computer after it crashed. Finding all sorts of things. 😉


----------



## soulofsound

muziksculp said:


> Yes, no rush, especially if the delay is due to Jasper's hearing issue.
> 
> I don't know how much time he is giving his ears a break, because our sensory organs need a good long break if they are overworked, giving them more work while they are not at their optimal state, will only degrade them, or make recovery slower than it should take.
> 
> I know this from my personal experience with health issues, not just hearing, but talking as well. But I don't want to get into my experiences here. I just wanted to mention this important detail. Because it is related to the topic.


I think they are still fixing the legato too. As rich and real the library sounds, the legato does sound a little swollen still in the fortissimo parts. Some might call it bumpy -i don't think that is the case- but it seems a little hard to tame compared to the other PS libraries. Only a guess of course.


----------



## Eptesicus

Shame. However i would prefer more time taken on it and it being finished , rather than being broken like a lot of other releases these days.


----------



## jaketanner

I think it's always a smart move to wait to release a new product right after BF sales...most people have already used up their funds and need time to replenish...this is good business practice...aside from whatever else is holding it up. I've never understood developers that release products right after a major sale and then place a time limit on the intro price..LOL.


----------



## Snarf

soulofsound said:


> I think they are still fixing the legato too. As rich and real the library sounds, the legato does sound a little swollen still in the fortissimo parts. Some might call it bumpy -i don't think that is the case- but it seems a little hard to tame compared to the other PS libraries. Only a guess of course.


Which demos are you referring to here? The teaser video uses one of the first demos. There haven't been any legato demos for at least a month on soundcloud. The last exposed string demos were uploaded 4 months ago.


----------



## wunderflo

on his private Facebook, Jasper ran a Legato Comparison Analysis. People preferred patch 1. He later revealed the following:


> Considering that responses are in at this point -- patch 1 is an older library I built (private), Patch 2 is newer (Pacific alpha from some time ago, and not a particularly charitable example). I highly prefer Patch 1. Knowing the patch well, however, these results are interesting because I imagine there would be a LOT of complaints about it for various reasons (limited, too much movement, audible xfades or timbral shifts, etc). That said, it does have more movement among other things.


Maybe this lead to changing and redoing some stuff...


----------



## soulofsound

Snarf said:


> Which demos are you referring to here? The teaser video uses one of the first demos. There haven't been any legato demos for at least a month on soundcloud. The last exposed string demos were uploaded 4 months ago.


No new demo. I'll remember this life, i think it's called. It sounds really nice and still a little wonky at the same time. Hence my presumption they're still tweaking it. It mustn't be easy with so many velocity layers.


----------



## Evans

There was a time a few years ago I'd have paid a few hundred just for those trems at my fingers. I keep thinking about them at random parts of the day.


----------



## CT

I;m thinking about thos Trems


----------



## Evans

Still thinking about them.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## CT

Yeah speaking of the tremolo stuff (and beyond), just in case anyone hasn't come across these yet and wants more teases:


----------



## JF

Michaelt said:


> Yeah speaking of the tremolo stuff (and beyond), just in case anyone hasn't come across these yet and wants more teases:


Those sound excellent. I really hope Jasper knocks the legatos out of the park!


----------



## muziksculp

@Michaelt ,

Thanks for posting these Instagram Pacific Strings Demos. I don't think I heard these before, now I'm even more anxious, and impatient for the release of Pacific Strings, I'm really getting spoiled listening to these demos.


----------



## Eptesicus

soulofsound said:


> I think they are still fixing the legato too. As rich and real the library sounds, the legato does sound a little swollen still in the fortissimo parts. Some might call it bumpy -i don't think that is the case- but it seems a little hard to tame compared to the other PS libraries. Only a guess of course.



Yes i too hope they are still working on the legato. Whilst good, from the demos there are parts where it doesn't sound up to the standard you would expect for PS legato stuff. Hopefully he is still tweaking.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Michaelt said:


> Yeah speaking of the tremolo stuff (and beyond), just in case anyone hasn't come across these yet and wants more teases:



The Whisper Sustains is something else... phenomenal. Never heard nothing similar to it.


----------



## Simon Ravn

Wow, really amazing and promising sound in those screencasts! Hadn't seen/heard them before. This library can't come soon enough


----------



## SwordComposer

wunderflo said:


> on his private Facebook, Jasper ran a Legato Comparison Analysis. People preferred patch 1. He later revealed the following:
> 
> Maybe this lead to changing and redoing some stuff...


Can you or someone who has access to his private Facebook post those examples? Would love to hear.


----------



## Evans

SwordComposer said:


> Can you or someone who has access to his private Facebook post those examples? Would love to hear.


It's here: 






Performance Samples - Pacific - Symphonic Strings


Guys, Jasper shared this strings comparison analysis on Facebook, asking us for feedback. I am curious if Pacific is among these examples. You can find the original post on his Facebook personal account and participate in the analysis. It is admirable that this man interacts with us trying to...




vi-control.net


----------



## SwordComposer

Evans said:


> It's here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Performance Samples - Pacific - Symphonic Strings
> 
> 
> Guys, Jasper shared this strings comparison analysis on Facebook, asking us for feedback. I am curious if Pacific is among these examples. You can find the original post on his Facebook personal account and participate in the analysis. It is admirable that this man interacts with us trying to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


Oh, thanks. I like the 2nd one a bit more, I guess that one is Pacific?


----------



## chapbot

I use that dang sordino freebie in every track lol


----------



## chapbot

SwordComposer said:


> Oh, thanks. I like the 2nd one a bit more, I guess that one is Pacific?


Somebody plays WOW ♥️


----------



## SwordComposer

chapbot said:


> Somebody plays WOW ♥️


How could you tell?


----------



## FireGS

SwordComposer said:


> How could you tell?


We thank you for your tanking. Unless you're DPS, then you can just get out.


----------



## NickDorito

It looks like Jasper is doing another string library with audio imperia.

So now between pacific, voyage, and this audio imperia library coming out within the next year or so... I'm starting to feel like not buying any of these until all 3 are out so I can compare. I would feel awful buying a $500 string library just for one to come out in the summer that ends up being better suited for what I need.


----------



## muziksculp

So, with Jasper involved with another Strings Library collaboration with Audio Imperia, Plus Choir, also developing Pacific Orch., and Voyage Orch., Pacific Strings might be further delayed, maybe to 2023


----------



## jazzman7

My Reaction 

My Wallets Reaction


----------



## dzilizzi

jazzman7 said:


> My Reaction
> 
> My Wallets Reaction


This I relate to


----------



## Futchibon

NickDorito said:


>


Might it be possible VOYAGE could have become a co-production?


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Might it be possible VOYAGE could have become a co-production?


That's wouldn't be a bad idea, at least he would have some serious help to get it out before 2025.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Pacific Strings might be further delayed, maybe to 2023


Nope. Lots of speculation going on here. There’s just a LOT of stuff coming. Buckle up.


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> Nope. Lots of speculation going on here. There’s just a LOT of stuff coming. Buckle up.


I know there is a lot of stuff coming, the problem is 'When' , and if it is soon, then I will buckle up, but nothing has signaled it's going to be soon, but exactly the opposite so far. So.. I hope you are right.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> I know there is a lot of stuff coming, the problem is 'When' , and if it is soon, then I will buckle up, but nothing has signaled it's going to be soon, but exactly the opposite so far. So.. I hope you are right.


Great art takes time. I don't know the details of everything he's working on, but I can guarantee Pacific is not pushed back beyond the rest and absolutely not to 23… and as for the “rest,” I think everyone will probably be excited by what’s on the horizon.


----------



## Eptesicus

artinro said:


> Great art takes time. I don't know the details of everything he's working on, but I can guarantee Pacific is not pushed back beyond the rest and absolutely not to 23… and as for the “rest,” I think everyone will probably be excited by what’s on the horizon.



Yup, I'd much prefer more time being taken to make the libraries the best they can be, instead of rushing out releases with dodgy issues/bugs etc.

I think its good he doesn't chain himself to fixed release dates.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

you guys don't have to buy every string library that comes out you know 😂


----------



## Raphioli

NickDorito said:


> I'm starting to feel like not buying any of these until all 3 are out so I can compare.


I really love Performance Samples libraries, but yeah, I might need to switch to that stance too.
Theres not one library I regret purchasing from them, but when there's 3 coming out, gotta start choosing.
Especially when Voyage seems like its going to be higher priced than Pacific.

Hopefully we can see what all 3 can and can't do and choose the one which suits us the most.


----------



## muziksculp

Raphioli said:


> Hopefully we can see what all 3 can and can't do and choose the one which suits us the most.


Any idea what year that might be ?


----------



## Raphioli

muziksculp said:


> Any idea what year that might be ?


I've tried to look through my crystal ball, but there was a huge disturbance in the force...

Jokes aside, I can't really guess "when" obviously, but I feel like,
Pacific will come out first for obvious reasons, and then maybe Audio Imperia+PS's string library, then Voyage.
Thats my guess at least in terms of the release order.


----------



## dzilizzi

NeonMediaKJT said:


> you guys don't have to buy every string library that comes out you know 😂


You need to watch talk like that. It could get you banned from the forum!


----------



## Sunny Schramm

Raphioli said:


> I really love Performance Samples libraries, but yeah, I might need to switch to that stance too.
> Theres not one library I regret purchasing from them, but when there's 3 coming out, gotta start choosing.
> Especially when Voyage seems like its going to be higher priced than Pacific.
> 
> Hopefully we can see what all 3 can and can't do and choose the one which suits us the most.


But you can safe 50% by intro-loyalty-price right now!


----------



## Raphioli

Sunny Schramm said:


> But you can safe 50% by intro-loyalty-price right now!


For a second, that "  " emoji looked like Darth Maul to me.
Definitely sensed the dark side of the force (G.A.S) trying consume me.

Sorry for the SW jokes, been re-watching the series xD


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

My wallet when a new Performance Samples library is announced:


----------



## jazzman7

NeonMediaKJT said:


> you guys don't have to buy every string library that comes out you know 😂


----------



## CT

Share your GAS with me, and gain strength from the sharing.


----------



## MA-Simon

Michaelt said:


> Share your GAS with me, and gain strength from the sharing.


Pffffffffffffffffffffffhhhhhhhhhh h h h h h t. (I am sorry, but also... not)


----------



## curtisschweitzer

NeonMediaKJT said:


> you guys don't have to buy every string library that comes out you know 😂


Correct. Just everything from Jasper.


----------



## jazzman7

"you guys don't have to buy every string library that comes out you know"

I think my wallet hired that Guy


----------



## Baronvonheadless

So I used the cello shorts freebie and the chamber violin shorts freebie by PS throughout this piece. Mixed with a small bit of miroire. The pizz and col legno string plucks are from bbc pro. It all came out so juicey I had to share!









Untethered//Untouched


An Original Composition by Michael Oliva




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## Juulu

Baronvonheadless said:


> So I used the cello shorts freebie and the chamber violin shorts freebie by PS throughout this piece. Mixed with a small bit of miroire. The pizz and col legno string plucks are from bbc pro. It all came out so juicey I had to share!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Untethered//Untouched
> 
> 
> An Original Composition by Michael Oliva
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soundcloud.app.goo.gl


What the actual hell!? Are you running BBCSO Pro? If you're on Core how did you get everything to sound so close and intimate? I've been wanting to achieve a mix similar to this but figured I would have to upgrade to pro to do it. I didn't think the strings were capable of getting that close haha.


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Me: Saving up for Ark bundle for two years
Also me: Buys Vista to get Pacific Bundle discount
OT: Here's a ridiculously low bundle price but wipes out your Pacific money


----------



## Eptesicus

FrozenIcicle said:


> Me: Saving up for Ark bundle for two years
> Also me: Buys Vista to get Pacific Bundle discount
> OT: Here's a ridiculously low bundle price but wipes out your Pacific money



Haha, I'm in exactly the same situation.

Trying to resist the arks. I think overall my money will be better spent on Pacific.


----------



## Banquet

I’m lucky that the Arks have no interest for me. I thought the OT release might be a choir, which would have been very tempting, but I breathed a sigh of relief when I saw it was Ark 5.

That being said, I’ve now mentally packed Pacific in a box and stopped thinking about it. I think somewhere in this thread the release date was stated to be May 2021 with the scripting being a few weeks from being finished…. And the date has gone back and back… 

As much as I’m a fan of Jasper’s libraries, I can’t take the release dates seriously any more and the more I hear Jasper is taking on other projects, the less confident I become about even seeing Pacific in Q1 2022, but we’ll see


----------



## Russell Anderson

jazzman7 said:


> I think my wallet hired that Guy


I have discerned you used your phone to write this comment and more often use Guy to refer to Michelmore than guys.

I also solve crime


----------



## doctoremmet

Baronvonheadless said:


> So I used the cello shorts freebie and the chamber violin shorts freebie by PS throughout this piece. Mixed with a small bit of miroire. The pizz and col legno string plucks are from bbc pro. It all came out so juicey I had to share!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Untethered//Untouched
> 
> 
> An Original Composition by Michael Oliva
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soundcloud.app.goo.gl


What a *gorgeous* piece of music. Very well done Michael - you continue to impress me!


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Juulu said:


> What the actual hell!? Are you running BBCSO Pro? If you're on Core how did you get everything to sound so close and intimate? I've been wanting to achieve a mix similar to this but figured I would have to upgrade to pro to do it. I didn't think the strings were capable of getting that close haha.


It is bbc pro yes 🤙🏼


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

jazzman7 said:


> "you guys don't have to buy every string library that comes out you know"
> 
> I think my wallet hired that Guy


Tbh, it was futile of me to post that because I don't follow my own advice. 😂


----------



## jazzman7

Russell Anderson said:


> I have discerned you used your phone to write this comment and more often use Guy to refer to Michelmore than guys.
> 
> I also solve crime


Actually neither, but a pretty good attempt.... for an undead kinda fella


----------



## Russell Anderson

_Rats!_


----------



## filipjonathan

New Pacific Percussion freebie 






Pacific – Percussion – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## FrozenIcicle

filipjonathan said:


> New Pacific Percussion freebie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pacific – Percussion – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com


fuck those demos sound ridiculously real


----------



## Vlzmusic

I really like Jasper's work (do own CM, AW, AB, Violin B), but in all fairness, as the time passes, the gap between his 👋 magic hands and the big guys becomes narrower. Recent libs become more and more playable, and the sound of those AAA venues and musicians is difficult to match. I wish he would not smear these releases over such a long period, really wish him to succeed, but the competition becomes tougher by the day...


----------



## Eptesicus

Vlzmusic said:


> I really like Jasper's work (do own CM, AW, AB, Violin B), but in all fairness, as the time passes, the gap between his 👋 magic hands and the big guys becomes narrower. Recent libs become more and more playable, and the sound of those AAA venues and musicians is difficult to match. I wish he would not smear these releases over such a long period, really wish him to succeed, but the competition becomes tougher by the day...



Not so sure I agree with this. The big boys just keep releasing and re-releasing the same stuff, some of which I think is arguably not as good as what has come before.

There is little to match the realism that you get from PS's stuff (strings especially).


----------



## Vlzmusic

Eptesicus said:


> Not so sure I agree with this. The big boys just keep releasing and re-releasing the same stuff, some of which I think is arguably not as good as what has come before.
> 
> There is little to match the realism that you get from PS's stuff (strings especially).


No intention to stirr a dispute, but let's say, I was in your camp until recently, but somewhat hate to admit, CM is not the best tool for strings legato on my SSD anymore, same as Angry series... Will see what the future will bring, but the tendency is there.


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Vlzmusic said:


> No intention to stirr a dispute, but let's say, I was in your camp until recently, but somewhat hate to admit, CM is not the best tool for strings legato on my SSD anymore, same as Angry series... Will see what the future will bring, but the tendency is there.


What replaced it


----------



## Vlzmusic

FrozenIcicle said:


> What replaced it


Will pm you later.


----------



## Eptesicus

Vlzmusic said:


> No intention to stirr a dispute, but let's say, I was in your camp until recently, but somewhat hate to admit, CM is not the best tool for strings legato on my SSD anymore, same as Angry series... Will see what the future will bring, but the tendency is there.



Fair enough. You wouldn't be stirring a dispute. We all have different sounds we are looking for.Would be interested to know what you prefer now too.


----------



## ism

Eptesicus said:


> There is little to match the realism that you get from PS's stuff (strings especially).


This may be true - but only within the very narrow "not for purists" niche that PS libraries target. 

Without other libraries that covered other sweet spots, and typically much less narrow niches, only having PS would drive most of us absolutely crazy. 

It is a lovely, lovely niche that Jasper hits though. I and do enjoy visiting it from time to time.


----------



## artinro

I am definitely biased, since I have done testing for some of Jasper's libraries, but I really have to say that I appreciate that he takes all the time he needs to release libraries that A) Always match his core vision for a particular sound B) Have gone through RIGOROUS testing (I can say that confidently) and aren't rushed. 

I love and respect many of the "AAA" devs, and I own almost every library imaginable, but I sometimes feel that as devs have grown bigger and bigger, they sometimes stray from their core mission and lose focus on the detail, rush things out, spread their talents over too many products released in short succession, don't test things thoroughly enough and suffer QC issues as a result. 

In terms of Jaspers release schedules, he always releases when he's done, never before. And I should add that he's been suffering with a hearing issue for the last half year. Trust me, he's working hard on getting the next batch of libraries out (starting soon with Pacific Strings). I think 2022 is going to make people very happy.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Eptesicus said:


> The big boys just keep releasing and re-releasing the same stuff, some of which I think is arguably not as good as what has come before.


Con Moto, Vista, Pacific, Voyage, the new AI strings - some could say PS is no different. Subtle, important differences - like everybody is attempting.



Eptesicus said:


> There is little to match the realism that you get from PS's stuff (strings especially).


Not to spark the ire of the PS fans, but this is highly subjective - and not factually true.


----------



## Eptesicus

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Con Moto, Vista, Pacific, Voyage, the new AI strings - some could say PS is no different. Subtle, important differences - like everybody is attempting.
> 
> 
> Not to spark the ire of the PS fans, but this is highly subjective - and not factually true.



Yes it is subjective, and obviously I mean in terms of the narrow scope of things that his strings do. I find they have life to them for lyrical/emotional stuff that is rarely matched. So many other libraries just sound dead/like a single sampled note with too many tells they are not real.

That's why Pacific is quite exciting, because it is actually a full string library from them with lots of articulations rather than just legato/sustains.


----------



## gst98

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Con Moto, Vista, Pacific, Voyage, the new AI strings - some could say PS is no different. Subtle, important differences - like everybody is attempting.


Personally, I'm very happy for the big devs to record new material after the ~decade they've been out so that they can learn from the mistakes they made, and utilise the larger budgets they all now have. Can't see why having more choice is a bad thing, so long as it doesn't encourage rushing. 



ALittleNightMusic said:


> Not to spark the ire of the PS fans, but this is highly subjective - and not factually true.


I disagree partly. I think PS and SF, who are pretty much the only devs who don't RX and melodyne the life out the samples, are objectively closer to real-life imo. But the legato preferences side of things is subjective, yes


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

gst98 said:


> Personally, I'm very happy for the big devs to record new material after the ~decade they've been out so that they can learn from the mistakes they made, and utilise the larger budgets they all now have. Can't see why having more choice is a bad thing, so long as it doesn't encourage rushing.


I agree. Also for many musicians, these are all choices we generally don't have access to in person.



gst98 said:


> I disagree partly. I think PS and SF, who are pretty much the only devs who don't RX and melodyne the life out the samples, are objectively closer to real-life imo. But the legato preferences side of things is subjective, yes


Eh, I tried the Vista freebie extensively. It did not sound any more "real" or "better" to me than the other libraries I have (ex. CSS). CSS has a lot of noise in it, so not sure which devs you are talking about that do a lot of RX / Melodyne. There's a balance with editing anyway - don't edit enough and the same sound of a chair moving will be in every piece. I have many libraries and none of the ones from the major players sound over-edited to me in terms of what I want from a usability standpoint.


----------



## gst98

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I agree. Also for many musicians, these are all choices we generally don't have access to in person.
> 
> 
> Eh, I tried the Vista freebie extensively. It did not sound any more "real" or "better" to me than the other libraries I have (ex. CSS). CSS has a lot of noise in it, so not sure which devs you are talking about that do a lot of RX / Melodyne. There's a balance with editing anyway - don't edit enough and the same sound of a chair moving will be in every piece. I have many libraries and none of the ones from the major players sound over-edited to me in terms of what I want from a usability standpoint.


Well, I wasn't arguing about anything being "better", that _is_ hugely subjectively. When you say what you want from a usability standpoint, I think you've missed the point I was making, because devs use RX and melodyne to remove noises and tuning instability to _improve_ usability.

You can hear the lack of sheen that pretty much every string library lacks when compared to live recordings, which is the most noticeable sign of noise reduction. Tuning pitch stability is most noticeable on smaller ensembles, especially brass.


----------



## Eptesicus

One thing that i have just realised that is a bit of a dissapointment, is that there only appears to be legatos in the flutes and clarinets in the wind section of this, and no legato in the brass.

Is that right?


----------



## gst98

Eptesicus said:


> One thing that i have just realised that is a bit of a dissapointment, is that there only appears to be legatos in the flutes and clarinets in the wind section of this, and no legato in the brass.
> 
> Is that right?


Yeah, voyage has full symphonic sized brass and winds sections, so he was doing the pacific version in the style of caspian 2.0


----------



## Eptesicus

gst98 said:


> Yeah, voyage has full symphonic sized brass and winds sections, so he was doing the pacific version in the style of caspian 2.0



I thought Pacific was the symphonic one from what someone said earlier?

Or is that just strings?


----------



## gst98

Eptesicus said:


> I thought Pacific was the symphonic one from what someone said earlier?
> 
> Or is that just strings?


Just strings. Everything else is a2 ensembles. Voyage is smaller string ens, but full size for the rest


----------



## dzilizzi

gst98 said:


> Just strings. Everything else is a2 ensembles. Voyage is smaller string ens, but full size for the rest


Well, that makes no sense. Why not have a full orchestra for one and a smaller orchestra for the other?


----------



## gst98

dzilizzi said:


> Well, that makes no sense. Why not have a full orchestra for one and a smaller orchestra for the other?


Don't think about the differentiating factor in Voyage being the section size. Voyage is more experimental in terms of technique and articulations, Pacific is basic articulations on the strings and playable brass/wind patches. I mean, no one seems to complain about using SSB with SCS

Also makes a bit more sense if you consider the timeline and think that before Pacific existed or was recorded, he had already recorded most of Voyage. It was Smaller strings sections with standard brass and winds. 

Then on a whim, he recorded Pacific strings that was supposed to be a quick project (don't forget he had almost all of it recorded and programmed in the space of ~1/2 months until he had hearing problems and started to struggle with finessing the legatos). Seems like he enjoyed recording Pacific that he decided to do some small section brass, winds and a bit of perc ens to go along with it, that was to supersede Caspian.


----------



## dzilizzi

Is it recorded in the same space? I guess you can pick and choose sections if so. Make it work for what you need.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Vlzmusic said:


> Will pm you later.


I would also like to know if that's ok.😂


----------



## dzilizzi

Vlzmusic said:


> Will pm you later.


This is Sample talk and not a commercial thread. You can post about other libraries here without a problem.


----------



## Poirot45

dzilizzi said:


> This is Sample talk and not a commercial thread. You can post about other libraries here without a problem.


Yeah I was gonna say I would also like to know 😂


----------



## muziksculp

Poirot45 said:


> Yeah I was gonna say I would also like to know 😂


Maybe it's Top Secret


----------



## Saxer

The most interesting part for me is the playable Pacific woodwind section. There are all kind of playable sections out there (Adventure Brass, Caspian, Adventure Strings, Trailer Strings) but no woodwinds except the f/ff-only Angry Woodwinds which have no vibrato - so there is a big gap!


----------



## Vlzmusic

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Class-VI-fied


No secret, but this is a Pacific thread, so it didn`t feel right to discuss previous Jasper libs. I did buy a few new toys this winter, BBC, ARK 5, strings from Miroire etc. Their playability is not inferior to CM, and Angry stuff, not anymore. And all in all, this was money on the side, waiting for Pacific, so now, even if it eventually blows everything out of the water, I am not the person I was in November. The probability of me spending another 500$ on strings, reached zero level...


----------



## muziksculp

Would it be safe to expect Paciic Strings to have Key-Switches to select the various articulations it offers ?


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Would it be safe to expect Paciic Strings to have Key-Switches to select the various articulations it offers ?


No, there won’t be key-switches. 1 patch per articulation. Jasper doesn’t prefer articulation key-switching, so I wouldn’t expect it in his future libraries either.


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> No, there won’t be key-switches. 1 patch per articulation. Jasper doesn’t prefer articulation key-switching, so I wouldn’t expect it in his future libraries either.


I see. Thanks for the feedback. I know he doesn't use Key-Switches in his libraries, so I was curious if he is sticking to this system, or has decided to change things for Pacific Strings.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> I see. Thanks for the feedback. I know he doesn't use Key-Switches in his libraries, so I was curious if he is sticking to this system, or has decided to change things for Pacific Strings.


He’s sticking with it for Pacific and I’d expect the same for future releases, yes.


----------



## axb312

artinro said:


> He’s sticking with it for Pacific and I’d expect the same for future releases, yes.


He should provide an option with keyswitches for those who want it.


----------



## muziksculp

If there are no Key-Switches for the Pacific Strings Articulations. Well, In Studio One Pro 5, I think it is quite easy to create Sound-Variations based on Midi Channel, so I can see myself creating a Kontakt multi with each articulation assigned to a midi channel, that I can switch between as needed via sound-variations using Channel Number as the criteria for switching between the articulations.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Eptesicus

muziksculp said:


>




Sounds brilliant.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


>



What are those lower notes that don't sound, if there are no keyswitches?


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> What are those lower notes that don't sound, if there are no keyswitches?


forced downbow


----------



## Raphioli

muziksculp said:


>



that is not good for my GAS...


----------



## muziksculp

gst98 said:


> forced downbow


So, should we conclude that there are Key-Switches in Pacific Strings ?


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> forced downbow


But that's...guys, that's a keyswitch 😐


----------



## Raphioli

"No keyswitch" probably means there are no keyswitches to change articulations.
But keyswitches to force something like RR reset does exist.


----------



## Casiquire

Raphioli said:


> "No keyswitch" probably means there are no keyswitches to change articulations.
> But keyswitches to force something like RR reset does exist.


I get that, but it's kind of a distinction without a difference. If you're going to withhold a massively popular and honestly bare-minimum feature and the reason you provide is that you don't like them in your own workflow--which is already a bad reason--and then they come up in other parts of your own workflow, it's a bad look imo


----------



## Raphioli

Casiquire said:


> I get that, but it's kind of a distinction without a difference. If you're going to withhold a massively popular and honestly bare-minimum feature and the reason you provide is that you don't like them in your own workflow--which is already a bad reason--and then they come up in other parts of your own workflow, it's a bad look imo


I understand people who are wanting keyswitches for their workflow.
I think the best bet if one would want a Performance Sample library with articulation keyswitching would be to wait for the collaboration between Audio Imperia. Audio Imperia might add it.


----------



## gst98

muziksculp said:


> So, should we conclude that there are Key-Switches in Pacific Strings ?





Casiquire said:


> But that's...guys, that's a keyswitch 😐


PS have had these kinds of KS before in other libraries, but unless there has been a huge change in plans I don't believe there are going to be an artic KS. There was a discussion recently where JB was asking for feedback on how to control pre-delay/latency - the majority of people chose to have a CC controlled low-latency mode rather than KS



Casiquire said:


> I get that, but it's kind of a distinction without a difference. If you're going to withhold a massively popular and honestly bare-minimum feature and the reason you provide is that you don't like them in your own workflow--which is already a bad reason--and then they come up in other parts of your own workflow, it's a bad look imo


Maybe on the surface you see them as the same thing, but a single KS that controls RR resets is a whole world apart from squeezing an nki full of a million samples with thousands of lines of code. Also don't think his personal dislike is the reason for the absence of KS


----------



## Snarf

Regarding the keyswitches thing, here is a post from another thread on this subject. Hope it helps:



Snarf said:


> Regarding a possible lack of keyswitches in Voyage - it's really not a big deal because of this great _free keyswitches router script (link) _by Orange Tree Samples.
> 
> I would actually prefer this way because it 1) saves development time, 2) patch loading time and 3) gives more control to the user (e.g. in terms of keyswitch order and output routing).



Depending on your DAW, you might not even need the keyswitch script. For example, Studio One allows me to map sound variations to midi channels. I'm sure Cubase, Logic and Reaper can do this as well.


----------



## Futchibon




----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> PS have had these kinds of KS before in other libraries, but unless there has been a huge change in plans I don't believe there are going to be an artic KS. There was a discussion recently where JB was asking for feedback on how to control pre-delay/latency - the majority of people chose to have a CC controlled low-latency mode rather than KS
> 
> 
> Maybe on the surface you see them as the same thing, but a single KS that controls RR resets is a whole world apart from squeezing an nki full of a million samples with thousands of lines of code. Also don't think his personal dislike is the reason for the absence of KS


If the reason we're given is that it's too much effort to implement, or there's a kontakt restriction, that's different. But the reason given earlier in the thread was that Jasper just doesn't like them


----------



## szczaw

Futchibon said:


>


I'm out.


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> If the reason we're given is that it's too much effort to implement, or there's a kontakt restriction, that's different. But the reason given earlier in the thread was that Jasper just doesn't like them


I took it more as it's how he likes to structure his products and the way they're designed. There aren't even varying lengths of marcatos to KS between because they're designed as all in one patches, unlike VSL or OT

I've only seen a handful of people in this thread express a desire for them, but even then, with a big single NKI (esp with 14 dyn layers), it's possible to hit the limit but it also means a lot of coding, as well as a ton of time debugging anything that comes up such as hanging-notes. And you end up with a complicated non-playble patch, that to me, goes against the mantra of PS.

All of that for something that can be made in a few mins with a switch to different NKI's on MIDI channels via Articulation Sets and Maps or with the many NKS scripts available, that don't introduce these complexities.


----------



## gst98

Also just noticed the woodwinds loyalty intro is $99 which is amazing. not sure that got posted yet.


----------



## wlinart

Looking at the specs of every part of pacific, it's starting to look very nice. The bread and butter things needed are all included. And guessing that the pricing for the brass will be in line with the woodwinds and the percussion, that would mean a total loyalty price of around $800, or normal intro + loyalty for everything except strings for $1k. That'll be a very nice package for that price.


----------



## Eptesicus

gst98 said:


> Also just noticed the woodwinds loyalty intro is $99 which is amazing. not sure that got posted yet.



That seems reasonable.
Even going to have some legato instruments which is good.

Shame there isn't legato for all sections though as I would have happily paid more than $99 if there was.


----------



## gst98

Eptesicus said:


> That seems reasonable.
> Even going to have some legato instruments which is good.
> 
> Shame there isn't legato for all sections though as I would have happily paid more than $99 if there was.


Of course, but that's coming in due time with voyage. This is $99 for Caspian 2.0, in more depth with 4 timings of short releases and 5 instrument ensembles (6 on the brass) + trills and flutters, not to mention RR legato on the flutes which is awesome. There's a lot of content that I think would still be good value at the $199 full price


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Eptesicus

gst98 said:


> Of course, but that's coming in due time with voyage. This is $99 for Caspian 2.0, in more depth with 4 timings of short releases and 5 instrument ensembles (6 on the brass) + trills and flutters, not to mention RR legato on the flutes which is awesome. There's a lot of content that I think would still be good value at the $199 full price


Oh I agree, its a good intro price for the winds, its just a shame to have to wait for voyage for more legato stuff


----------



## Evans

muziksculp said:


>



I think these are all just reposts to YouTube from what's already on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/performancesamples/


----------



## muziksculp

Evans said:


> I think these are all just reposts to YouTube from what's already on Instagram:
> https://www.instagram.com/performancesamples/


I see. Looking forward to hear new Pacific Strings demos in 2022.


----------



## dts_marin




----------



## FrozenIcicle

dts_marin said:


>


very good hahah


----------



## Vlzmusic

dts_marin said:


>


LOL, But jokes aside, if Pacific Orchestra loyalty price to be 800$, I think its a great package. Personally I will only get WW at this point, but again, it's a shame Jasper missed 2021 end of the year happening, as probably I am not the only impulsive buyer out there, to spend this amount already.


----------



## Nando Florestan

muziksculp said:


>



That's a nope from me. Sounds just as weird as the Vista harp with its almighty pre-attack. There's something about these pizzicati that is also too intense, in a way that is never ever heard in classical music. I won't be using this patch!


----------



## Casiquire

Nando Florestan said:


> That's a nope from me. Sounds just as weird as the Vista harp with its almighty pre-attack. There's something about these pizzicati that is also too intense, in a way that is never ever heard in classical music. I won't be using this patch!


They almost sound like they're layered with a spiccato in some moments.


----------



## YahmezTV

Casiquire said:


> They almost sound like they're layered with a spiccato in some moments.


Agree; these totally sound like there are bowed shorts layered in.


----------



## Noeticus

I don't have ears good enough perhaps to hear these issues... but are they really there, or is it just in your minds?

So far Pacific Strings sounds awesome to me!


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Noeticus

I Pacifically need more dynamics in my Strings and so I specifically await the release of Pacific Stings.


----------



## muziksculp

I'm sensing Pacific Strings will be out this month.


----------



## TomaeusD

muziksculp said:


> I'm sensing Pacific Strings will be out this month.


This is it! This is the year!


----------



## Evans

muziksculp said:


>



One more video until YouTube is caught up with Instagram.

... and then what? Release? New videos? Silence? A black hole forms in the GN-z11 galaxy?


----------



## Noeticus

dynamics  dynamics dynamics dynamics dynamics dynamics  

That's what I want! 

Oh, and money!


----------



## soulofsound

Nando Florestan said:


> That's a nope from me. Sounds just as weird as the Vista harp with its almighty pre-attack. There's something about these pizzicati that is also too intense, in a way that is never ever heard in classical music. I won't be using this patch!


Never ever heard in classical?


----------



## soulofsound

Evans said:


> One more video until YouTube is caught up with Instagram.
> 
> ... and then what? Release? New videos? Silence? A black hole forms in the GN-z11 galaxy?


Last video you mean?


----------



## Noeticus

Pacific Strings is literally going to change my world.

🍷🍷🍷🍷


----------



## Getsumen

soulofsound said:


> Never ever heard in classical?



Yeah but you get what they mean. It's totally fine to have things that you don't like in libraries. Personally, I agree and don't like the pizz.


----------



## soulofsound

Getsumen said:


> Yeah but you get what they mean. It's totally fine to have things that you don't like in libraries. Personally, I agree and don't like the pizz.


I don't get it actually. What's wrong with it? Pizz sounds perfectly fine to me.


----------



## Vlzmusic

soulofsound said:


> I don't get it actually. What's wrong with it? Pizz sounds perfectly fine to me.


I think it's not about right versus wrong, but stylistic choice. If you take some restrained and classy sounding libs like BBCSO, the pizz there is pure, while here in the demo it has additional bright elements in the sound, as if something else besides the finger cushion was touching the string, or it was played with more of the finger smearing against the string, or something similar. 

I rather like the effect, but its not your vanilla regular pizz in the classical sense.


----------



## soulofsound

Vlzmusic said:


> I think it's not about right versus wrong, but stylistic choice. If you take some restrained and classy sounding libs like BBCSO, the pizz there is pure, while here in the demo it has additional bright elements in the sound, as if something else besides the finger cushion was touching the string, or it was played with more of the finger smearing against the string, or something similar.
> 
> I rather like the effect, but its not your vanilla regular pizz in the classical sense.


Could it be the other libraries have pizz that doesn't go nearly as loud?


----------



## WhiteNoiz

I like the more "playful"/stylish playing. As always, in depends on what you want done... I guess it's about the timing of the pluck and the detachment of the attack and how much extra "misfirings" (looser timing basically)/noise you allow. Ideally, you want both. I feel like it would be great for more laid-back playing, like in this case:


It's a toss-up between wanting it as a go-to bread and butter lib or a flavor/style-specific lib. I think it leans more towards the second by design, as a different take of the main/general playing styles. But since it's dynamically so deep many would expect more of a general mileage out of it. It's a bit unclear where it stands.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Pizzicatos sound amazing. People may be confused by the fact that the higher velocities clearly trigger a bartok pizzicato. Nothing weird with them...


----------



## Loerpert

Vlzmusic said:


> I think it's not about right versus wrong, but stylistic choice. If you take some restrained and classy sounding libs like BBCSO, the pizz there is pure, while here in the demo it has additional bright elements in the sound, as if something else besides the finger cushion was touching the string, or it was played with more of the finger smearing against the string, or something similar.
> 
> I rather like the effect, but its not your vanilla regular pizz in the classical sense.


Could it have to do with the fact that PS libraries have some room sound before the actual articulation starts? This creates a bit of a sucking effect, maybe that's what you mean? This is adjustable though, so you can create a 'tighter' sound which sounds more realistic in my opinion.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Loerpert said:


> Could it have to do with the fact that PS libraries have some room sound before the actual articulation starts? This creates a bit of a sucking effect, maybe that's what you mean? This is adjustable though, so you can create a 'tighter' sound which sounds more realistic in my opinion.


I hear nothing wrong with the room, it's just brighter and bolder than usual pizz, that's all.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Trying to stay motivated about the Pacific release and those freebies help a lot 
So I did a crash test that I would like to share with all of you waiting for the Pacific release like me , featuring the percussion and celli spiccato demo freebies layered with some Angry Brass Pro Soloists to reinforce the celli line


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## muziksculp

Love these Pacific Strings Marcatos sound. 

The attack portion of the marcatos sound very realistic, and have a wonderful, and rich timbre. The Longer sustained marcato chords are very wonderful, so are the shorter duration chords. 

So.. are we going to see Pacific Strings released this month ?


----------



## dzilizzi

Hmm. I qualify for the loyalty on the strings and Brass, but will have to buy one of them to get the loyalty on the perc and winds. Hopefully the Strings come out first since the brass don't look to be coming out before winds and perc.


----------



## Argy Ottas

muziksculp said:


>



I am not the only impatient for the release...


----------



## al_net77

Argy Ottas said:


> I am not the only impatient for the release...


Falkor, is that you?


----------



## Raphioli

al_net77 said:


> Falkor, is that you?


----------



## Argy Ottas

@al_net77 @Raphioli Shame on you both...


----------



## TomaeusD

It's The Neverending Story... of waiting on the perfect strings library.


----------



## Noeticus

A few weeks ago, I downloaded and tried the free sordino longs demo, and the DYNAMICS are a dream come true.

When Pacific releases I think it will be the first string library to offer lots of dynamic layers, as in, sometimes up to 14 dynamic layers on the Spiccatos for example. Wow!


----------



## chapbot

Noeticus said:


> A few weeks ago, I downloaded and tried the free sordino longs demo, and the DYNAMICS are a dream come true.
> 
> When Pacific releases I think it will be the first string library to offer lots of dynamic layers, as in, sometimes up to 14 dynamic layers on the Spiccatos for example. Wow!


Are they not glorious! I've used them in two tracks already ♥️


----------



## muziksculp

OK, I have more grey hairs as I wait for Pacific Strings to be released.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> OK, I have more grey hairs as I wait for Pacific Strings to be released.


My hair fell out as I have waited for Pacific Strings to be released.


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> My hair fell out as I have waited for Pacific Strings to be released.


Do I have to wait for the same thing to happen to me, so it is finally released ?


----------



## TomaeusD

chapbot said:


> My hair fell out as I have waited for Pacific Strings to be released.


----------



## Noeticus

chapbot said:


> Are they not glorious! I've used them in two tracks already ♥️


The dynamics are so mind bendingly good that at first I could not hear them because I had my cc slider down and the volume too low on my system.

When I dialed it all up, I was shocked to be able to raise and lower the string players bow pressure volume so smoothly that it was basically perfect!!!

Truly what I have always wanted. Oh, time for some virtual wine...

🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷


----------



## dzilizzi

Noeticus said:


> The dynamics are so mind bendingly good that at first I could not hear them because I had my cc slider down and the volume too low on my system.
> 
> When I dialed it all up, I was shocked to be able to raise and lower the string players bow pressure volume so smoothly that it was basically perfect!!!
> 
> Truly what I have always wanted. Oh, time for some virtual wine...
> 
> 🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷


Quit whining all the time!


----------



## Noeticus

dzilizzi said:


> Quit whining all the time!


Okay, I will indulge in psilocybin...

🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄


----------



## jazzman7

Noeticus said:


> Okay, I will indulge in psilocybin...
> 
> 🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄


Got any extra?


----------



## Noeticus

🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄
🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄


----------



## NickDorito

NickDorito said:


> It's never coming out





NickDorito said:


> It's never coming out



It's never coming out Part 5 (2022) (imdb)


----------



## Baronvonheadless

I for one, hope for MORE delays. That way they continue to release each section one by one as a free demo until I’ve snagged all of pacific, free.

I’ve really bought enough sample libraries. We deserve more freebies. 

K thanks.


----------



## muziksculp

Baronvonheadless said:


> I for one, hope for MORE delays


----------



## muziksculp

I wouldn't be surprised if AR1 Modular Strings are released before Pacific Stirngs.


----------



## Noeticus

My radar says Pacific Strings are almost done, but I have no radar on AR1.


----------



## muziksculp

Noeticus said:


> My radar says Pacific Strings are almost done


I thought it was almost done last year. 

I am losing the last bit of hope I had that Pacific Strings will be released. 

Any status update on it will help me restore some hope that it will be released soon, or at least in the coming weeks.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Any status update on it will help me restore some hope that it will be released soon, or at least in the coming weeks.


Hi Skulp. https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific/

Q1 '22 has been on the site for the last couple of months. That's still the plan from what I hear.


----------



## Noeticus

It is close to release, but how close I do not know.

The dynamics are worth the wait.


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> Hi Skulp. https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific/
> 
> Q1 '22 has been on the site for the last couple of months. That's still the plan from what I hear.


Thanks for pointing me to the ETA announcement. Let's hope it's not bumped to a later quarter. 

_Quote : 

" Release ETAs

Strings, Percussion, Brass, and Woodwinds: Speculatively beginning in Q1 2022 with strings & percussion" ._


----------



## FrozenIcicle

gives me time to save money


----------



## DJiLAND

I believe Pacific will solve everything about me, but I'm losing my money because it exists only in my imagination.
I'm impatient to wait for it and now I'm watching SSP and Zodiac…


----------



## jbuhler

DJiLAND said:


> I believe Pacific will solve everything about me, but I'm losing my money because it exists only in my imagination.
> I'm impatient to wait for it and now I'm watching SSP and Zodiac…


In this respect the real Pacific will be no competitor to the strings of N, which are every bit as good as you can imagine.


----------



## Banquet

I’ve saved the money and spent the money for Pacific about 3 times now.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Banquet said:


> I’ve saved the money and spent the money for Pacific about 3 times now.


Wish I had your commitment, perseverance, and consistency. With each passing moment, and each dollar spent, I feel my passion for it fading away...


----------



## Tinesaeriel

This thread feels like it's turning into the "Waiting for Cinematic Studio Woodwinds" sequel... XD

No worries for me! I've got a new job outside music-making that's kept me plenty busy, and I haven't really been making much music recently. I need to get a new Mac computer, anyways; I tried learning another DAW on my more powerful Windows computer, but I just couldn't do it. I'm too far gone into the Logic workflow.


----------



## Sunny Schramm

So whats the correct loyalty price for the strings? 🤔

Here its $449 (https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific/).

And here its $499 (https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific-strings/#1634163449342-616353d8-dc1b).


----------



## Futchibon

Sunny Schramm said:


> So whats the correct loyalty price for the strings? 🤔
> 
> Here its $449 (https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific/).
> 
> And here its $499 (https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific-strings/#1634163449342-616353d8-dc1b).


Interesting! The lower price is new, hoping it's not a typo but a reward for those with PS products who are hanging on in there...the Jasper/AI choir seems ready to drop soon so hopefully he'll be able to finish Pacific now


----------



## wlinart

Sunny Schramm said:


> So whats the correct loyalty price for the strings? 🤔
> 
> Here its $449 (https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific/).
> 
> And here its $499 (https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific-strings/#1634163449342-616353d8-dc1b).


Now it's both $449, awesome! And combined with the sale now of vista, it get's even better


----------



## Noeticus

What is an NFR? On the Loyalty page...






Pacific – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## Noeticus

Also, it looks like buying Vista on sale now will save you money when you buy Pacific later, yes?


----------



## wahey73

Noeticus said:


> What is an NFR? On the Loyalty page...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pacific – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com


Not For Resale, often handed out for reviews or presentations. As the name says, you can't resell them and sometimes not even update


----------



## Noeticus

So, does Performance Samples allow resale of their libraries?


----------



## Noeticus

Anyone else do the math on this?

As in, it looks like buying Vista on sale now will save you money when you buy Pacific later, yes?


----------



## Casiquire

Noeticus said:


> Anyone else do the math on this?
> 
> As in, it looks like buying Vista on sale now will save you money when you buy Pacific later, yes?


That's how the last sale was. I thought it would be worth it: it was cheaper to buy Vista and expect to purchase Pacific, than it would've been to just buy Pacific alone at full price, so why not!


----------



## Soundbed

Noeticus said:


> Anyone else do the math on this?
> 
> As in, it looks like buying Vista on sale now will save you money when you buy Pacific later, yes?


Already bought Vista… math schmath.


----------



## Getsumen

Noeticus said:


> Anyone else do the math on this?
> 
> As in, it looks like buying Vista on sale now will save you money when you buy Pacific later, yes?


Vista = 160
Savings from Strings loyalty = 250

So it seems you do save a considerable chunk of cash! (90$ if I'm doing it right!)


----------



## muziksculp

These Winter Discounts are on until March 11th. I wonder if Pacific Strings will be released around that weekend, or the following week.


----------



## Bee_Abney

muziksculp said:


> These Winter Discounts are on until March 11th. I wonder if Pacific Strings will be released around that weekend, or the following week.



I was wondering the exact same thing. Wondering, hoping, deluding myself...

I suspect not. Isn't that a little early given Jasper's choral commitments with Audio Imperia?


----------



## muziksculp

Bee_Abney said:


> I was wondering the exact same thing. Wondering, hoping, deluding myself...
> 
> I suspect not. Isn't that a little early given Jasper's choral commitments with Audio Imperia?


There is no way to know. But he mentions that Pacific Strings, and Perc. are expected to be released first during Q1-2022, which ends in March. So, we shall see if this sticks, or he will once again delay the release.


----------



## jazzman7

muziksculp said:


> There is no way to know. But he mentions that Pacific Strings, and Perc. are expected to be released first during Q1-2022, which ends in March. So, we shall see if this sticks, or he will once again delay the release.


It would be cool to have an opportunity to finally explore Pacific next month, but I'll also be glad if it's buttoned up to Jasper's satisfaction. Plus, My wallet is hoping for a delay. The GAS went on an unexpected tear this past month or two. 

Retubing My U99 and Manley Voxbox 
SAS, AR2 Pro, Intimate and Frozen Strings 
Century Brass 
Pathfinder Cello 
House of Kush Novatron Varitone Tube Compressor


----------



## muziksculp

jazzman7 said:


> The GAS went on an unexpected tear this past month or two.


LOL .. But that's your problem. I want Pacific Strings ASAP


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> LOL .. But that's your problem. I want Pacific Strings ASAP


It’s a string library. Of course you do!


----------



## Peter Satera

Is the loyalty likely to continue throughout, or just during intro?


----------



## dzilizzi

Peter Satera said:


> Is the loyalty likely to continue throughout, or just during intro?


I think it is during the intro only


----------



## jazzman7

jbuhler said:


> It’s a string library. Of course you do!


These Devs should send our friend Muzik a gift card or two for His work as a fossil fuel proponent!


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> It’s a string library. Of course you do!


Yup... and a very special string library


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Yup... and a very special string library


Weirdly, I’m still rather undecided, though I have Vista and so the discount.


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> Weirdly, I’m still rather undecided, though I have Vista and so the discount.


I will help you decide.. , and I think you know what that means


----------



## Peter Satera

That just adds to my uncertainty.

Not sure about anyone else, but it's rather a conflicting decision right now. Vista is cheap now, Pacific isn't and doesn't have a UI, and if you listen to Audio Imperia's recent post it sounds lovely while being like Vista, and, has 2nd Violins and likely a UI with keyswitching.



Imma just rock back and forth here, in the corner.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> I will help you decide.. , and I think you know what that means


Yup. It’s really not like me to be undecided about a string library. Normally I can say yeah or nay almost immediately. (That doesn’t mean I buy everyone I like, but I know if it’s something I want and if it will offer some capability or expressive potential that I don’t currently have but would like.)


----------



## Getsumen

Peter Satera said:


> That just adds to my uncertainty.
> 
> Not sure about anyone else, but it's rather a conflicting decision right now. Vista is cheap now, Pacific isn't and doesn't have a UI, and if you listen to Audio Imperia's recent post it sounds lovely while being like Vista, and, has 2nd Violins and likely a UI with keyswitching.
> 
> 
> 
> Imma just rock back and forth here, in the corner.



Here's my assumptions anyway

Pacific is pacific, symphonic sized with standard artics.
Vista is smaller sized with more "experimental "artics"
I presume the AI + PS one is also smaller sized but instead with more standard artics.

That's how I see them avoiding overlap so I guess it really depends on what you need


----------



## Peter Satera

Getsumen said:


> Here's my assumptions anyway
> 
> Pacific is pacific, symphonic sized with standard artics.
> Vista is smaller sized with more "experimental "artics"
> I presume the AI + PS one is also smaller sized but instead with more standard artics.
> 
> That's how I see them avoiding overlap so I guess it really depends on what you need


Yeah. The sizes are quite a important factor. The problem is that I don't _need_ any of it. 🤣


----------



## jazzman7

Peter Satera said:


> That just adds to my uncertainty.
> 
> Not sure about anyone else, but it's rather a conflicting decision right now. Vista is cheap now, Pacific isn't and doesn't have a UI, and if you listen to Audio Imperia's recent post it sounds lovely while being like Vista, and, has 2nd Violins and likely a UI with keyswitching.
> 
> 
> 
> Imma just rock back and forth here, in the corner.



Jasper is developing ANOTHER string Lib besides his, with these guys? I must admit, the 2nd Vlns and a proper UI sounds good to me. With Voyage and Pacific and this too? Jasper sounds like he's competing with himself here


----------



## jazzman7

jazzman7 said:


> Jasper is developing ANOTHER string Lib besides his, with these guys? I must admit, the 2nd Vlns and a proper UI sounds good to me. With Voyage and Pacific and this too? Jasper sounds like he's competing with himself here
> 
> 
> Peter Satera said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. The sizes are quite a important factor. The problem is that I don't _need_ any of it. 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> Ha. You just answered my post!
Click to expand...


----------



## audioimperia

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Legato sucking effect is bad here.


Sucking effect?! would love to hear where you’re hearing that in here.


----------



## FireGS

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Legato sucking effect is bad here.


I mean, if you mean the sound of the bow changing direction, and if by bad you mean good, then yeah. Not sure I'd refer to it as a "legato sucking effect". This isn't that problem. And this isn't a problem, its fantastically real.


----------



## jazzman7

If they include most arts, this sounds like Vista with matching shorts, trems, etc and a proper UI. Just what I needed. More GAS!


----------



## muziksculp

Peter Satera said:


> The problem is that I don't _need_ any of it. 🤣


Oh.. No. You have a very serious problem. You might need to get some muziksculp therapy sessions to get over it.


----------



## Peter Satera

muziksculp said:


> Oh.. No. You have a very serious problem. You might need to get some muziksculp therapy sessions to get over it.


Stay away demon! THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!

*Throws holy water*


----------



## Noeticus

"Do not despise my commands because I want more dynamic layers!!!"


----------



## Casiquire

It sounds way more neutral than Vista to me. Isn't Vista's vibrato way more pronounced, and the legato is slurred-to-portamento. This legato sounds more pronounced and separated. But it does sound like it could be a good companion library


----------



## jazzman7

Casiquire said:


> It sounds way more neutral than Vista to me. Isn't Vista's vibrato way more pronounced, and the legato is slurred-to-portamento. This sounds more pronounced and separated. But it does sound like it could be a good companion library


Exactly


----------



## Argy Ottas

Peter Satera said:


> That just adds to my uncertainty.
> 
> Not sure about anyone else, but it's rather a conflicting decision right now. Vista is cheap now, Pacific isn't and doesn't have a UI, and if you listen to Audio Imperia's recent post it sounds lovely while being like Vista, and, has 2nd Violins and likely a UI with keyswitching.
> 
> 
> 
> Imma just rock back and forth here, in the corner.



Guessing from the cover then we are talking about the same hall as Pacific which is great. Comparing this with an unlisted Pacific cello video (see below) posted by Jasper some time ago we have clearly a quite similar sound and programming which is also great, but with a different section size.?

What can I say... I love them both... I want them both...


----------



## Eptesicus

Argy Ottas said:


> Guessing from the cover then we are talking about the same hall as Pacific which is great. Comparing this with an unlisted Pacific cello video (see below) posted by Jasper some time ago we have clearly a quite similar sound and programming which is also great, but with a different section size.?
> 
> What can I say... I love them both... I want them both...




They do sound remarkably similar...

Got to admit, even for the intro + loyalty price of $449 (which is still fairly high compared to the competition) , not having a second violin section is a real kick in the teeth.

Would love to know more about Audio Imperia's offering and when it is coming out/what the differences between it and Pacific will be.


----------



## Peter Satera

Argy Ottas said:


> Guessing from the cover then we are talking about the same hall as Pacific which is great. Comparing this with an unlisted Pacific cello video (see below) posted by Jasper some time ago we have clearly a quite similar sound and programming which is also great, but with a different section size.?
> 
> What can I say... I love them both... I want them both...



This was exactly my thinking, and comparable, i felt with vista cello demos.


----------



## Noeticus

Bring forth the Dynamic Layers!!!


----------



## zwhita

Eptesicus said:


> not having a second violin section is a real kick in the teeth.


I assume since it's a full size symphonic section that you mean there is no divisi? I've seen several Vista demos where 2 instances of the Violins patch are used, so divisi would have been useful here.


----------



## Casiquire

zwhita said:


> I assume since it's a full size symphonic section that you mean there is no divisi? I've seen several Vista demos where 2 instances of the Violins patch are used, so divisi would have been useful here.


No, Vista and Pacific have no second violin. Just violin, viola, cello, and bass. It's a developer choice i disagree with


----------



## jbuhler

Casiquire said:


> No, Vista and Pacific have no second violin. Just violin, viola, cello, and bass. It's a developer choice i disagree with


Me too. And it's one thing that is giving me severe reservations on Pacific. Still, it's not an uncommon choice. It does cut down on studio time, editing and scripting, likely close to a 20% reduction in costs and time.


----------



## Casiquire

jbuhler said:


> Me too. And it's one thing that is giving me severe reservations on Pacific. Still, it's not an uncommon choice. It does cut down on studio time, editing and scripting, likely close to a 20% reduction in costs and time.


Sure, but then you don't get the second pass. I often use second violins for lines that i want to have a different feel. They're often a little softer and more nuanced where the firsts tend to be brighter and more strident.


----------



## jbuhler

Casiquire said:


> Sure, but then you don't get the second pass. I often use second violins for lines that i want to have a different feel. They're often a little softer and more nuanced where the firsts tend to be brighter and more strident.


Yes, I agree. The cost savings come with very real losses, and in case it wasn't clear I also disagree with the developer's choice. 

I'm just acknowledging the cost savings, and especially for someone doing all the editing and scripting work by themselves, the labor savings, to cutting one section and can understand why a developer might make the choice. (And no doubt it is the right choice for many users as well.)


----------



## Noeticus

Ahh... but then there's the upcoming "Voyage". Perhaps it will help with layering.






Voyage – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## zwhita

Casiquire said:


> No, Vista and Pacific have no second violin. Just violin, viola, cello, and bass. It's a developer choice i disagree with


I understood that, but was insinuating something that reveals my ignorance about composition: I assumed given 16 violins and a divisi option, you could get the equivalent of 2nd violins. I see now there are other uses for that sectional arrangement.


----------



## Casiquire

zwhita said:


> I understood that, but was insinuating something that reveals my ignorance about composition: I assumed given 16 violins and a divisi option, you could get the equivalent of 2nd violins. I see now there are other uses for that sectional arrangement.


You could, but most libraries don't come with divisi! I think only about four or five out of the dozens out there. I wish it was more common.

Divisi still wouldn't quite fix the problem though because then you'd have to use only half sections for everyone else, of course. I tolerate it with Vista and the like, but overall, i really don't like it


----------



## ansthenia

I'm in the no separately recorded 2nd Violins no buy club, so I'll be ignoring Pacific.

Some people think they're important or even necessary, some really don't care. Both views are reasonable, it just depends on your style and how you typically use a 2nd Violins section. For people who aren't too bothered about 2nd Violins and usually only give them a minor supporting role, a little transposing and panning to create your own will suffice when you desire them.


----------



## Noeticus

What really needs to be considered is that with all the dynamic layers you end up with the ability to have a second set of Violins without having to use the transposition trick, as you can just use a different set of dynamic layers for the second section of violins. 

Of course, it would be nice if it was scripted that way for easy use, as I would prefer pushing a virtual button to make it all happen.


----------



## Gabriel S.

Any demo of somebody who owns Vista and has done the duplication of 1st viol. + panning + the transposition trick? 

Thanks


----------



## Saxer

I used Con Moto 1st as 2nd in Vista. Probably possible to use Vistas 1st as second in Pacific... at least for legatos. But legatos are the only articulation where I need 2nd's as a separate track.

What I didn't like in ConMoto and Vista is the pumping legato when playing legato ostinatos or lines in 8th at around 120 bpm. Maybe this will be different in Pacific's multi dynamic layer transitions. At least that's what I hope.


----------



## Gabriel S.

Saxer said:


> I used Con Moto 1st as 2nd in Vista. Probably possible to use Vistas 1st as second in Pacific... at least for legatos. But legatos are the only articulation where I need 2nd's as a separate track.
> 
> What I didn't like in ConMoto and Vista is the pumping legato when playing legato ostinatos or lines in 8th at around 120 bpm. Maybe this will be different in Pacific's multi dynamic layer transitions. At least that's what I hope.


Thanks saxer

So far I got the impression after listening demos and reading opinions that Vista can handle faster legato lines better than other libraries, am I wrong?


----------



## Argy Ottas

Gabriel S. said:


> Any demo of somebody who owns Vista and has done the duplication of 1st viol. + panning + the transposition trick?
> 
> Thanks


Hi Gabriel!
I have done this some time ago using both the TT (transposition trick) on Vista and some layering with Con Moto. 




As for the panning I always pan the close mics to taste.

Can't wait to experiment with Pacific Strings and these two in terms of dividing or form the tone and the overall sound. The lack of second violins on Pacific doesn't bother me at all


----------



## handz

Argy Ottas said:


> Hi Gabriel!
> I have done this some time ago using both the TT (transposition trick) on Vista and some layering with Con Moto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the panning I always pan the close mics to taste.
> 
> Can't wait to experiment with Pacific Strings and these two in terms of dividing or form the tone and the overall sound. The lack of second violins on Pacific doesn't bother me at all



Love it!


----------



## Gabriel S.

Argy Ottas said:


> Hi Gabriel!
> I have done this some time ago using both the TT (transposition trick) on Vista and some layering with Con Moto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the panning I always pan the close mics to taste.
> 
> Can't wait to experiment with Pacific Strings and these two in terms of dividing or form the tone and the overall sound. The lack of second violins on Pacific doesn't bother me at all



Lovely composition! Thanks


----------



## Casiquire

Gabriel S. said:


> Thanks saxer
> 
> So far I got the impression after listening demos and reading opinions that Vista can handle faster legato lines better than other libraries, am I wrong?


No, it's good at fast lines.


----------



## zwhita

Eptesicus said:


> Would love to know more about Audio Imperia's offering and when it is coming out/what the differences between it and Pacific will be.


This was the other thing I forgot to ask about yesterday. What are the real advantages of Pacific over Areia, seeing as the latter is much cheaper, even with the Pacific loyalty discount? Would it just be Performance Samples' characteristic focus on dynamics and playability?


----------



## Nils Neumann

Argy Ottas said:


> Hi Gabriel!
> I have done this some time ago using both the TT (transposition trick) on Vista and some layering with Con Moto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the panning I always pan the close mics to taste.
> 
> Can't wait to experiment with Pacific Strings and these two in terms of dividing or form the tone and the overall sound. The lack of second violins on Pacific doesn't bother me at all



Beautifu!


----------



## Casiquire

zwhita said:


> This was the other thing I forgot to ask about yesterday. What are the real advantages of Pacific over Areia, seeing as the latter is much cheaper, even with the Pacific loyalty discount? Would it just be Performance Samples' characteristic focus on dynamics and playability?


The sound, the tone, the room, the straightforward features and the expression. If it doesn't feel like something you need, then it isn't!


----------



## zwhita

Casiquire said:


> If it doesn't feel like something you need, then it isn't!


Playing with Vista, and assuming Pacific will apply a similar approach, I really appreciate the attention paid to the distinction between dynamics and how smoothly one can modulate between layers. Areia doesn't really share that feature, and most people are aware there are problems in its Legato transitions that have never been fixed. 
I also really like the Pacific demos for Whisper sustains; they feel unique to this library.

I'm going to assume for now that it's something I could use. Looking forward to hearing some new demos from Performance Samples as they are released.


----------



## filipjonathan




----------



## MA-Simon

This is the good shit! 😍
Love how they play and sound.


----------



## Snarf

Sounds good. The max length of marcatos seems very long, so with the adaptive releases this will be very playable. I'm curious how the dynamic shaping will work on the longer notes. For example, will it be possible to do a sforzando?


----------



## gohrev

For those not "using" 2nd Violins in their works, or rather letting them play in unison with the 1st, I wonder what your string harmonies look like...


----------



## pawelmorytko

gohrev said:


> For those not "using" 2nd Violins in their works, or rather letting them play in unison with the 1st, I wonder what your string harmonies look like...


I actually have my CSS set up kind of counter intuitively, I know it has Violins 1 and 2 but both of my Violin patches consist of Violins 1, 2 and Violas (I like to beefen up the sound that way otherwise I find it sounding a little thin and small). Most of the time one patch will play an octave higher and the other lower, and if they are in the same range they will most of the time play different notes, and if by rare chance they do play the same note, I can easily and quickly change the dynamics on one patch to avoid using the same samples, or do the good ol' transpose trick. So for me personally I don't have an issue with there not being 2nd violins, but I can definitely understand why people would want them, all about workflow and preference really...


----------



## holywilly

I’d like to layer different libraries for thicker, lush sound per section (current I’m satisfied with the combo of Berlin + VSL elite/dimension strings), and having proper 2nd violins patch is helpful to prepare scores for recording. 

For libraries that don’t have 2nd violins, I just use transposition tricks, and EQ to make the 2nd sounds slightly different. 

And now I’m excited about the release of Pacific.


----------



## Casiquire

Half the time i don't even feel the need to EQ second violins. Just transposing them already darkens their sound. I did a test run with Vista playing some parts from The Village where practically every section was divided, and I don't thinki felt the need to EQ anything but the lines that I didn't transpose due to never playing unison. There's quite a tonal change.


----------



## gohrev

I agree, @Casiquire — the same applies to many other libraries, e.g. CSW. Can't believe how completely different instruments sound after transposition.


----------



## Gabriel S.

Casiquire said:


> Half the time i don't even feel the need to EQ second violins. Just transposing them already darkens their sound. I did a test run with Vista playing some parts from The Village where practically every section was divided, and I don't thinki felt the need to EQ anything but the lines that I didn't transpose due to never playing unison. There's quite a tonal change.





gohrev said:


> I agree, @Casiquire — the same applies to many other libraries, e.g. CSW. Can't believe how completely different instruments sound after transposition.


Of course, because you are changing the tone of the room. That's why transposing is not optimal, you are basically placing the 2nd violins in "another room". It would have the same reverb decay length, but with a darker tone (if you transpose down, -1 st), and probably some transients are a bit affected too and less detailed. So I can imagine how different it sounds. That's why it is a pity that PS didn't record 2nd V...


----------



## Casiquire

Gabriel S. said:


> Of course, because you are changing the tone of the room. That's why transposing is not optimal, you are basically placing the 2nd violins in "another room". It would have the same reverb decay length, but with a darker tone (if you transpose down, -1 st), and probably some transients are a bit affected too and less detailed. So I can imagine how different it sounds. That's why it is a pity that PS didn't record 2nd V...


You're changing the tone of the instruments too though. I tend to think people make way too big a deal about the sound of a room. Nothing sounds unnatural to me at all, in context


----------



## Gabriel S.

Casiquire said:


> You're changing the tone of the instruments too though. I tend to think people make way too big a deal about the sound of a room. Nothing sounds unnatural to me at all, in context


Sure! The tone of everything. 

Good that sounds natural in context. That kind of comment is not good for my wallet though


----------



## Casiquire

Gabriel S. said:


> Sure! The tone of everything.
> 
> Good that sounds natural in context. That kind of comment is not good for my wallet though


Well if you scroll up a bit you'll see that I'm actually really opposed to libraries that don't have a second violin 😂 maybe that helps


----------



## Gabriel S.

Casiquire said:


> Well if you scroll up a bit you'll see that I'm actually really opposed to libraries that don't have a second violin 😂 maybe that helps


THANKS :D

I'm just wondering if it would be interesting to transpose the whole V1 section with a quality offline pitch shifting soft, instead of doing it in kontakt. It would sound better. That's something that for PS would be a matter of few hours max...batch-processing each sample


----------



## gohrev

Gabriel S. said:


> Of course, because you are changing the tone of the room. That's why transposing is not optimal, you are basically placing the 2nd violins in "another room". It would have the same reverb decay length, but with a darker tone (if you transpose down, -1 st), and probably some transients are a bit affected too and less detailed. So I can imagine how different it sounds. That's why it is a pity that PS didn't record 2nd V...


Interesting, I never thought of it that way, but right you are. I wonder if that would be too big an impact when one is only/mostly using the close mics. 

I never use the Room mic in any of the Cinematic Studios libraries


----------



## Gabriel S.

gohrev said:


> Interesting, I never thought of it that way, but right you are. I wonder if that would be too big an impact when one is only/mostly using the close mics.
> 
> I never use the Room mic in any of the Cinematic Studios libraries


When something is doubled (if you are doing for divisi) I bet it is less noticeable. But creating a new section (V2 in Vista) I can imagine is a whole different thing. You are basically trying to fill a gap in the classical orchestral balance. I'd need to test Vista myself to test it out and check, for an instance, the spread of V1 and Violas and see if there is a gap for the V2 or not...I don't know how he recorded it so therefore I have no clue.

With close mics it definitely would have an impact on the instrument tone, but of course less on the room because by definition you have less room in the close mics.


----------



## Living Fossil

Gabriel S. said:


> Of course, because you are changing the tone of the room. That's why transposing is not optimal, you are basically placing the 2nd violins in "another room".


That's completely irrelevant. A small transposition doesn't change the perception of the room in a noticeable way.
We are humans, not bats. And if people had more understanding about the complexity of the decoding of the room information on a neural level there would be less focus on "putting instruments in the same room" etc. and lots of other urban myths that come as a byproduct of youtubers...
What changes however with transposition, are the formants of the instruments, and that's what one can hear in some occasions. Mostly, if they fall into regions where human languages have their significant vowels. (That's one aspect our brain/ear really is extremely powerful at).

To put the whole thing into perspective: lots of (wet) libraries haven't sampled every half tone, yet they sound absolutely gorgeous. Some of them come with second violins, yet nobody complains ever about the room that changes with every transposed sample.
The only thing that is terrible is if the open g string is also used for ab. (as in the case of a very popular library).


----------



## Argy Ottas

Living Fossil said:


> That's completely irrelevant. A small transposition doesn't change the perception of the room in a noticeable way.
> We are humans, not bats. And if people had more understanding about the complexity of the decoding of the room information on a neural level there would be less focus on "putting instruments in the same room" etc. and lots of other urban myths that come as a byproduct of youtubers...
> What changes however with transposition, are the formants of the instruments, and that's what one can hear in some occasions. Mostly, if they fall into regions where human languages have their significant vowels. (That's one aspect our brain/ear really is extremely powerful at).
> 
> To put the whole thing into perspective: lots of (wet) libraries haven't sampled every half tone, yet they sound absolutely gorgeous. Some of them come with second violins, yet nobody complains ever about the room that changes with every transposed sample.
> The only thing that is terrible is if the open g string is also used for ab. (as in the case of a very popular library).


----------



## Gabriel S.

Living Fossil said:


> That's completely irrelevant. A small transposition doesn't change the perception of the room in a noticeable way.
> We are humans, not bats. And if people had more understanding about the complexity of the decoding of the room information on a neural level there would be less focus on "putting instruments in the same room" etc. and lots of other urban myths that come as a byproduct of youtubers...
> What changes however with transposition, are the formants of the instruments, and that's what one can hear in some occasions. Mostly, if they fall into regions where human languages have their significant vowels. (That's one aspect our brain/ear really is extremely powerful at).
> 
> To put the whole thing into perspective: lots of (wet) libraries haven't sampled every half tone, yet they sound absolutely gorgeous. Some of them come with second violins, yet nobody complains ever about the room that changes with every transposed sample.
> The only thing that is terrible is if the open g string is also used for ab. (as in the case of a very popular library).


Yeah sure I believe you, I was only commenting about the change in sound after transposing that was being discussed by users of Vista who use transposition. Some people say after transposing it, it sounds darker than the non transposed one...therefore my reply. Logically, it makes sense to me that if you transpose a wet sample, you are transposing the room too, therefore changing its tone...and if you change its sound, you change its character. Of course you don't change the position of the instruments because that's determined by the timing, dispersion etc etc of the ER, but you change the color/tone of the room (and the instrument). If that's that noticeable or not I don't know because I don't have Vista as I mentioned (considering buying it, that's why i am here) and I've never been in that situation (not even for divisi)...

Your argument about wet libraries sampled by whole tones with transposed semitones...that's it, you are right. I did not think about that. The next question would be then: if others mentioned a change in tone when transposing a section (like the V1 in vista), but people usually don't hear a change in tone in these libraries with half tone transposition (that would be a mess), what's the difference?

Thanks for adding further input to this debate.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Saxer

Gabriel S. said:


> The next question would be then: if others mentioned a change in tone when transposing a section (like the V1 in vista), but people usually don't hear a change in tone in these libraries with half tone transposition (that would be a mess), what's the difference?


Transposing samples make them sound different. But transposing a half step isn't a lot. A whole step changes it a bit more. There is no real point when it changes from 'same' to 'different'. It's like daylight changing over the day.

If you have a voice recording of spoken words from a person you know transposing a half step let you still recognize the person by it's voice. A whole step away it's similar but there seems something wrong. Three half steps away it already sounds like someone else. Not so much when there are only vowels or humming. I sampled a vocalist for backing choir in thirds and it sounds natural. So it depends on the material.

The benefit of the 'transposing trick' is: a bit transposing sounds a bit different. When we transpose instruments by choice it's exactly what we want: avoid same sample problems like phasing or fill out missing samples.

Overthinking the room part is like counting the vibrato rate per minute or discussing the length of the transients though these parts change much more obvious when transposing. But all that says nothing about the usefulness of the samples itself. Play with it. Experiment. Listen. Make music.


----------



## jamwerks

Man those marcatos sound marvellous!!


----------



## Getsumen

Another one!


----------



## muziksculp

@Getsumen ,

Thanks for the heads up on the new Pacific Full Str. Spicc. Freebie. 

Got it. 

It looks like we are going to end up with a free Pacific Strings library if it takes too long to be released. Hopefully it will finally be out during March.


----------



## Scalms

hmm, not seeing this new freebie on their site, where's it at?


----------



## Noeticus

Cello freebie... But not the "full strings" freebie as pictures above.






Pacific – Strings – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## chapbot

jamwerks said:


> Man those marcatos sound marvellous!!


Those are from an upcoming expansion called "Marvelous Marcatos"


----------



## Getsumen

Scalms said:


> hmm, not seeing this new freebie on their site, where's it at?


Don't think it's out yet! Presumably just a teaser.


----------



## muziksculp

Getsumen said:


> Don't think it's out yet! Presumably just a teaser.


I see Pacific Spicc. Full Strings Freebie in the teaser pic above. I don't think that's available yet in their site. 

They have the Limited Spicc. & Sordino Freebie available. The Sordinos are the violins.


----------



## holywilly

Fingers crossed for full range freebie.


----------



## pawelmorytko

I did mention to Jasper on a Facebook comment a while back to consider doing a full range freebie instead of just one instrument, I think it's a better way to hear how the library would work, and being able to hear all the instruments in the strings section playing together (even with potential dynamic limitations for the freebie) it would still be a better way to demo the library than just playing around on the cellos IMO.


----------



## Getsumen

The new freebie is out btw!


----------



## muziksculp

Getsumen said:


> The new freebie is out btw!


Thanks for the heads up. 

Every time I detect a new post on this thread, I think Pacific Strings might be finally released  , but not yet, the wait goes on.


----------



## CT

_Very_ brief test with the freebie ensemble spiccatos, trying to fine-tune my template so it will all sit together nicely with stuff recorded at AIR and Abbey Road. 

View attachment blend.mp3


----------



## Casiquire

Michaelt said:


> _Very_ brief test with the freebie ensemble spiccatos, trying to fine-tune my template so it will all sit together nicely with stuff recorded at AIR and Abbey Road.
> 
> View attachment blend.mp3


My impression is that Performance Samples would easily blend into AIR. You've got a great sound there!


----------



## holywilly

After playing the second freebie, damn, those strings sounds so juicy and I wanna buy them now!


----------



## Pougrivioure

I did a super fast mock up of shostakovitch's 8th quartet with the freebie. (almost no programmation nor mixing).
Jasper, my wallet is now ready.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

The dynamics and the sound of those strings in this hall is freaking amazing! This spiccatos freebie is such a generous one, love it!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Yeah, _super generous_ freebie here. Eight dynamics, eight round robins, sounds great.


----------



## jazzman7

Agreed! I just downloaded and played with it a bit. Wow


----------



## muziksculp

The Performance Samples Winter Sale ends March 11th, so could Saturday, March 12th be the release day of Pacific Strings ?


----------



## Evans

muziksculp said:


> The Performance Samples Winter Sale ends March 11th, so could Saturday, March 12th be the release day of Pacific Strings ?


Even with that "no support" model, I don't think we're going to see any weekend releases.


----------



## jazzman7

muziksculp said:


> The Performance Samples Winter Sale ends March 11th, so could Saturday, March 12th be the release day of Pacific Strings ?


From the notes that accompany the new Freebie, it sounds like Jasper still has plenty He's working on. Perhaps this is a nice little gift for those of us in the waiting room. My wallet would prefer next month, but I seldom listen to it


----------



## muziksculp

jazzman7 said:


> From the notes that accompany the new Freebie, it sounds like Jasper still has plenty He's working on.


Like what ? He is still working on perfecting the legatos ? or .... ? 

Sorry, but I'm really getting dizzy waiting for this library  Every new month we begin, it's not the month it will be released, and this logic keeps repeating, and repeating, and repeating in an endless loop.


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> Like what ? He is still working on perfecting the legatos ? or .... ?
> 
> Sorry, but I'm really getting dizzy waiting for this library  Every new month we begin, it's not the month it will be released, and this logic keeps repeating, and repeating, and repeating in an endless loop.


I'm giving Jasper a bit of a pass on this because of his hearing issues. At least with AI Chorus there were others that could listen and correct errors in sounds. Isn't he on his own with Pacific?


----------



## jamessy

dzilizzi said:


> I'm giving Jasper a bit of a pass on this because of his hearing issues. At least with AI Chorus there were others that could listen and correct errors in sounds. Isn't he on his own with Pacific?


I would never have guessed he had any issues with hearing because Pacific sounds fantastic


----------



## jazzman7

muziksculp said:


> Like what ? He is still working on perfecting the legatos ? or .... ?
> 
> Sorry, but I'm really getting dizzy waiting for this library  Every new month we begin, it's not the month it will be released, and this logic keeps repeating, and repeating, and repeating in an endless loop.


_"Like what ? He is still working on perfecting the legatos ? or .... ? "_ 

Dunno. That's just what it sounded like to me. (Timing, Scripting, getting the GUI where it needs to be) My very uneducated guess is He has a lot riding on this being as good as He can get it. 

As great as this freebie sounds, it's not even a final release candidate? Just wow


----------



## muziksculp

According to Performance Samples website.

Pacific Strings *Status: nearing the end of post production *

Any idea what this means ? Is this the last stage of the development, or ... ?


----------



## gohrev

It'll be done when it's done. You can ask twice a day, but that's like pushing the elevator button multiple times hoping it'll arrive faster 🙃


----------



## Hendrixon

muziksculp said:


> According to Performance Samples website.
> 
> Pacific Strings *Status: nearing the end of post production *
> 
> Any idea what this means ? Is this the last stage of the development, or ... ?


Nobody gives a f***... give it, and the man, a rest.
In the meantime? I don't know... go hunt? read a book, see a shrink, learn to cook, see another shrink.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Hendrixon said:


> Nobody gives a f***... give it, and the man, a rest.
> In the meantime? I don't know... go hunt? read a book, see a shrink, learn to cook, see another shrink.


Wait a minute you're telling me that crying myself to sleep every night while listening to Pacific demos on Soundcloud is _not _a healthy coping mechanism?


----------



## FrozenIcicle

We shouldn't rush him. We all know he's never gonna fix issues after it's released so let him take his time


----------



## Hendrixon

pawelmorytko said:


> Wait a minute you're telling me that crying myself to sleep every night while listening to Pacific demos on Soundcloud is _not _a healthy coping mechanism?


Its a much better way than the one above, that's for sure


----------



## I like music

Hendrixon said:


> Nobody gives a f***... give it, and the man, a rest.
> In the meantime? I don't know... go hunt? read a book, see a shrink, learn to cook, see another shrink.


Bit harsh! He's only asking on a forum. Doubt he's badgering Jasper directly. 

Also, you know that learning to cook can lead to similar problems eg when is the next frying pan being released?


----------



## Evans

I like music said:


> Bit harsh!


More than a bit! Maybe Hendrixon needs a referral to the same "shrink."


----------



## Gabriel S.

Evans said:


> More than a bit! Maybe Hendrixon needs a referral to the same "shrink."


and everyone else should take (including myself):
+ the "compose music instead of procrastinating in a forum" vitamin complement
+ the "you don't need more string libraries" pills

but the evil lobby of string libraries manufacturers would not be happy with that 😁


----------



## Hendrixon

I like music said:


> Bit harsh! He's only asking on a forum. Doubt he's badgering Jasper directly.


I know its far fetched but maybe, just maybe, said developer (and others) is not posting here anymore because of stuff like that constant nagging and badgering?
Just to be clear, I'm not a fan boy, have no contact with Jasper but I'm sure he is only human and do check up here and there what people post about him and his work.

And even if he isn't, really, show a bit of respect to a fellow musician, his work, his health.



I like music said:


> Also, you know that learning to cook can lead to similar problems eg when is the next frying pan being released?


I'm sure that's why Gordon Ramsay is so pissed all the time


----------



## I like music

Hendrixon said:


> I know its far fetched but maybe, just maybe, said developer (and others) is not posting here anymore because of stuff like that constant nagging and badgering?
> Just to be clear, I'm not a fan boy, have no contact with Jasper but I'm sure he is only human and do check up here and there what people post about him and his work.
> 
> And even if he isn't, really, show a bit of respect to a fellow musician, his work, his health.
> 
> 
> I'm sure that's why Gordon Ramsay is so pissed all the time


With you on Gordon Ramsay.

I guess the first point comes down to our reading of the intent (and the extent) of what Muzik was asking. I saw it more as excitement (and not pressure or disrespect) but hey, this is why the internet is a bit nutty. Same words can be received totally differently.


----------



## holywilly

Pacific is growing with first chair strings, what a surprise!

Jasper shows a short clip on facebook's story.


----------



## holywilly

For that intro cross grade price with that amount of contents, I’m totally sold!


----------



## jamessy

holywilly said:


> For that intro cross grade price with that amount of contents, I’m totally sold!


Wait it's going to be extra content? It's not it's own standalone purchase?


----------



## Snarf

The audio demo sounds amazing too!


----------



## holywilly

24 hours remaining for VISTA sale, does that mean Pacific is coming very very soon?


----------



## Scalms

Snarf said:


> The audio demo sounds amazing too!


i think i must live in an alternative universe sometimes. Where can I find this? it's not on their website


----------



## Simon Lee

Snarf said:


> The audio demo sounds amazing too!


Is this on his personal page ? He must of deleted it if it’s on the performance samples stories


----------



## Casiquire

Hang on, pre alpha? That sounds like a separate product. Do we know it's included with the strings versus another add on like the brass and percussion?

Anyway that's awesome! I want to hear more


----------



## Tilt & Flow

Casiquire said:


> Hang on, pre alpha? That sounds like a separate product. Do we know it's included with the strings versus another add on like the brass and percussion?
> 
> Anyway that's awesome! I want to hear more


do you have a link to where you're hearing the audio?


----------



## Casiquire

Tilt & Flow said:


> do you have a link to where you're hearing the audio?


I haven't heard audio. When i said "hear more" i meant more information 😁


----------



## muziksculp

I'm guessing the Pacific Strings page will be updated to reflect the new addition of the first chair violin, and cello.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

Casiquire said:


> I haven't heard audio. When i said "hear more" i meant more information 😁


ah, ok


----------



## Hendrixon

I downloaded the freebie of both strings and perc.
Why they both have several compressed files with the same sample files?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

holywilly said:


> 24 hours remaining for VISTA sale, does that mean Pacific is coming very very soon?


24 hours to be convinced for me, which I have yet to be. Owning CSS and SA Appassionata makes it even trickier to justify Vista. But open to any further comparisons and opinions. Pacific's dynamic sampling does seem interesting (hopefully it is audibly valuable vs. 5 layers - unlike SoundPaint's 127 layer thing).


----------



## Getsumen

Hendrixon said:


> I downloaded the freebie of both strings and perc.
> Why they both have several compressed files with the same sample files?


Might've been the way you decompressed it. Should be that they're chained to decompress without issue


Tilt & Flow said:


> do you have a link to where you're hearing the audio?


His Instagram account story.


----------



## Hendrixon

Getsumen said:


> Might've been the way you decompressed it. Should be that they're chained to decompress without issue


The duplicates are there whether the files are decompressed one by one or as a chain.
Weird...

Love the spiccatos mics.


----------



## artomatic

Pulled the trigger on Vista. I am so thrilled I did!
The texture and tone of this library has a special place in my template.
Looking forward to Pacific. Kudos to my brilliant fellow Bay Area native!


----------



## chapbot

Wow, I just heard the new cello overlay on his Facebook stories. I will purchase Pacific immediately. This must account for the delay, maybe he decided to add the first chairs before he releases it?


----------



## Gabriel S.

ALittleNightMusic said:


> 24 hours to be convinced for me, which I have yet to be. Owning CSS and SA Appassionata makes it even trickier to justify Vista. But open to any further comparisons and opinions. Pacific's dynamic sampling does seem interesting (hopefully it is audibly valuable vs. 5 layers - unlike SoundPaint's 127 layer thing).


I am testing the Vista Freebie and to me the tone and dynamics (specially the tone change with each dynamic layer) are far superior compared to CSS. I can't talk about Appassionata though. I can see that you have to be more careful how you play the legato on the keyboard, it seems that Vista programming is more sensitive than CSS for an instance, but also more realistic if you play it right.


----------



## Casiquire

ALittleNightMusic said:


> 24 hours to be convinced for me, which I have yet to be. Owning CSS and SA Appassionata makes it even trickier to justify Vista. But open to any further comparisons and opinions. Pacific's dynamic sampling does seem interesting (hopefully it is audibly valuable vs. 5 layers - unlike SoundPaint's 127 layer thing).


Vista is nothing like Appassionata in my opinion. I think Appassionata is misnamed. Vista fits that description better. CSS is a closer comparison but Vista has higher energy and movement. I also think it goes to a higher dynamic. But otherwise I do find it fairly similar. Vista is brighter and a little more balanced across the spectrum but that's something you could do in the mix, too.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Casiquire said:


> Vista is nothing like Appassionata in my opinion. I think Appassionata is misnamed. Vista fits that description better. CSS is a closer comparison but Vista has higher energy and movement. I also think it goes to a higher dynamic. But otherwise I do find it fairly similar. Vista is brighter and a little more balanced across the spectrum but that's something you could do in the mix, too.


Well...I bought it. As if I needed another string library


----------



## Gabriel S.

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Well...I bought it. As if I needed another string library


You are not alone


----------



## daan1412

I've been thinking about Vista since the sale started and finally pulled the trigger too. The tone is different compared to what I already have and I like the style of writing it is aimed at, so I expect it to be useful. But it's going to be particularly useful if I decide to get Pacific... $449 vs $699 is a big difference.


----------



## I like music

Do we expect Vista to go to this sort of discount at some point in the future? I can't remember it ever being $159, but I also don't know if Jasper does regular sales.


----------



## jamwerks

Pacific seems to be shaping-up to be a great sounding library. But $699 is a very expensive package. That would (imo) be a mistke on their part and they'd actually lose in the long run. Performance Samples is probably too small to have a dedicated sales director to guide them through the jungle of digital sales. We'll see!!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

jamwerks said:


> Pacific seems to be shaping-up to be a great sounding library. But $699 is a very expensive package. That would (imo) be a mistke on their part and they'd actually lose in the long run. Performance Samples is probably too small to have a dedicated sales director to guide them through the jungle of digital sales. We'll see!!


Just wait until it gets discounted futher on, unless you need it right here and now.


----------



## MusicalG

Argy Ottas said:


> Hi Gabriel!
> I have done this some time ago using both the TT (transposition trick) on Vista and some layering with Con Moto.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the panning I always pan the close mics to taste.
> 
> Can't wait to experiment with Pacific Strings and these two in terms of dividing or form the tone and the overall sound. The lack of second violins on Pacific doesn't bother me at all



Beautiful❤️❤️


----------



## jamwerks

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Just wait until it gets discounted futher on, unless you need it right here and now.


I wasn't referring to myself or my needs.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

jamwerks said:


> I wasn't referring to myself or my needs.


Ah ok, I see now it was a general observation.


----------



## Zanshin

Solo Cello (pre-alpha stage) - Pacific Solo 1st Chair Strings Speedwrite


www.performancesamples.com




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## Zanshin

I keep telling myself I’m not buying Pacific. Then I hear these demos and I’m buying Pacific. WTF.


----------



## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


> I keep telling myself I’m not buying Pacific. Then I hear these demos and I’m buying Pacific. WTF.


You will buy Pacific. It's the right thing to do.


----------



## Noeticus

PACIFIC will truly delivery so much quality, and DYNAMICS, that it will be a "real" game changer, a real water shed moment, and yes, a friggin' paradigmatic wow wow!!!


----------



## Scalms

i'm too lazy to click back to previous pages, so has it been determined is this it's own product "Pacific Solo Strings" or is it part of the Symphonic package? or undetermined yet


----------



## chapbot

Scalms said:


> i'm too lazy to click back to previous pages, so has it been determined is this it's own product "Pacific Solo Strings" or is it part of the Symphonic package? or undetermined yet


Undetermined, but I think we're all assuming it's part of the Pacific package.


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Undetermined, but I think we're all assuming it's part of the Pacific package.


That's my guess as well. We will know for sure if the Pacific Strings webpage info. is updated to reflect this. So far, it hasn't been updated showing that it will include the violin, and cello first chairs. This also might mean that Pacific Strings won't be released by the end of this month (Q1-2022).


----------



## jamessy

chapbot said:


> Undetermined, but I think we're all assuming it's part of the Pacific package.


My guess is you're right that it's part of the Pacific package, but in the same way that the brass and woodwinds are part of the Pacific package. The 16-12-10-8 strings are by far the largest cost. But once you have them, you qualify for the loyalty discount for every other piece of the orchestra, each of which costs much less than the main package and even more so when you already have part of it. So first chair strings will likely be a separate piece of Pacific that costs a couple hundred bucks as a standalone purchase and half that for people who own anything else in the series. At least that's my guess


----------



## Scalms

my wishful thinking is Jasper did some cost analysis and determined that for the current price, to be more competitive to other string libraries, he decided to include 1st chairs (think LASS here)


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Scalms said:


> my wishful thinking is Jasper did some cost analysis and determined that for the current price, to be more competitive to other string libraries, he decided to include 1st chairs (think LASS here)


I don't think it's competitive tbh lol


----------



## Noeticus

Since no one offers up to 14 Dynamic Layers (on their Spiccatos), I would say that Pacific will be well worth the price.

The free demos are amazing!


----------



## Scalms

Noeticus said:


> Since no one offers up to 14 Dynamic Layers (on their Spiccatos), I would say that Pacific will be well worth the price.
> 
> The free demos are amazing
> 
> 
> FrozenIcicle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it's competitive tbh lol
Click to expand...

yes i agree, this sort of in-depth sampling is what i've been waiting for, and quite frankly it will be in a league of its own.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Scalms said:


> my wishful thinking is Jasper did some cost analysis and determined that for the current price, to be more competitive to other string libraries, he decided to include 1st chairs (think LASS here)


I think including second violins would’ve been more competitive for the price he’s charging.


----------



## Noeticus

By using different dynamic layers from the Violins, you can in essence create your own second Violins.


----------



## Gabriel S.

Noeticus said:


> By using different dynamic layers from the Violins, you can in essence create your own second Violins.


I'd say that he maybe could give a 2nd Violins patch re-using the 1st Violins, so we don't have to do it ourselves. That would be very useful. Maybe adjusting already the panning, which samples to use and even already do the transposition trick inside. Just an idea which probably for him would not take a lot of effort and time, compared to the much more complex stuff he is used to do.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Noeticus said:


> By using different dynamic layers from the Violins, you can in essence create your own second Violins.


For this price, I shouldn’t have to create a faked version of second violins (that aren’t recorded where second violins are on the stage). He chose to favor more dynamic layers in the session which is his choice to make. But I think the price point he chose demands a full string section in addition to that. My opinion.


----------



## jamwerks

Has it be said if these 4 groups are recorded center, or in-place?


----------



## axb312

@artinro Any word from Jasper about the first chairs? Will they be included with Pacific strings or..?


----------



## Casiquire

jamwerks said:


> Has it be said if these 4 groups are recorded center, or in-place?


I'm not sure it's been addressed specifically but it's assumed to be recorded in situ.


----------



## chapbot

jamessy said:


> My guess is you're right that it's part of the Pacific package, but in the same way that the brass and woodwinds are part of the Pacific package. The 16-12-10-8 strings are by far the largest cost. But once you have them, you qualify for the loyalty discount for every other piece of the orchestra, each of which costs much less than the main package and even more so when you already have part of it. So first chair strings will likely be a separate piece of Pacific that costs a couple hundred bucks as a standalone purchase and half that for people who own anything else in the series. At least that's my guess


But these aren't first chairs, it's only solo violin and solo cello, at least according to the post.


----------



## FireGS

I wonder how many times we're going to do the "no 2nd violins" dance in this thread..


----------



## chapbot

FireGS said:


> I wonder how many times we're going to do the "no 2nd violins" dance in this thread..


The bitching will never end, and developers will rarely create a second violin due to financial concerns. I am amused and entertained by the endless loop 🤣


----------



## artomatic

What?? No 2nd violins?!!!


----------



## pawelmorytko




----------



## Argy Ottas




----------



## artinro

Hi folks, to address a couple of questions I’ve been asked:

1) Jasper has told me there is no plan to stop selling angry brass. 

2) The solos are recorded in situ. Same with the ensembles. 

3) I do not know if the plan is for pacific solos to be a separate product yet. Jasper is in the process of moving at the moment so I’m sure more info will be forthcoming.


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Scalms said:


> yes i agree, this sort of in-depth sampling is what i've been waiting for, and quite frankly it will be in a league of its own.


I was meaning it's a bit expensive lol oh well


----------



## Scalms

FrozenIcicle said:


> I was meaning it's a bit expensive lol oh well


oh right, got it now, lol. yes a bit pricey compared to what is out there


----------



## Peter Satera

artinro said:


> Hi folks, to address a couple of questions I’ve been asked:
> 
> 3) I do not know if the plan is for pacific solos to be a separate product yet. Jasper is in the process of moving at the moment so I’m sure more info will be forthcoming.


This is unacceptable. What kind of informant are you that you only get answers to 2 outta 3? I don't care if he's moving, get your coat back on and don't come back until you find out.


----------



## Noeticus

Buying PACIFIC will be less expensive then recording a string library yourself.

Wow, what a value!



Ooooohh, just wait until VOYAGE is released!


----------



## clonewar

Great idea for Jasper to give away the spiccato patch. I've been having a BLAST playing with it and have gone from 'Nah, I don't need another string library' to 'It will be mine. Oh yes, it will be mine'. It's so lively, nimble, and aggressive, and feels great playing live.

Here's the intro to Crazy Train played in with one instance of the Pacific spicc patch (flourishes added on a second pass). No EQ, reverb, or any other FX added, just a limiter on the master bus to prevent overs.

View attachment Crazy_Train_Pacific_Spicc.mp3


Here's just the strings without percussion:

View attachment Crazy_Train_Pacific_Spicc_NoPerc.mp3


----------



## Hendrixon

For Ever RR


----------



## artinro

Peter Satera said:


> This is unacceptable. What kind of informant are you that you only get answers to 2 outta 3? I don't care if he's moving, get your coat back on and don't come back until you find out.


I found my coat and ventured out. I return bearing news. Jasper is still in the midst of his move, but here’s what he said:

“Pacific” is a library encompassing ensemble strings, winds, brass and percussion. Each one is its own module available to purchase separately. Pacific solo strings will also be a separate module available to purchase separately but released at the same time as the ensemble strings. However, for folks who order ensemble during the intro period, solo strings will be free.


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> Pacific solo strings will also be a separate module available to purchase separately but released at the same time as the ensemble strings.



Hi @artinro

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm guessing this means that we won't see Pacific Ens. Strings released this month, and have to wait for the Pacific Solo Strings to be ready for them to be released together.

Also curious to know more details about the upcoming Pacific Solo Strings. 

So.. The wait for Pacific Strings continues.


----------



## Raphioli

artinro said:


> Pacific solo strings will also be a separate module available to purchase separately but released at the same time as the ensemble strings. However, for folks who order ensemble during the intro period, solo strings will be free.


wow!
A bonus on top of the loyalty pricing 
Thanks for the info


----------



## wlinart

artinro said:


> However, for folks who order ensemble during the intro period, solo strings will be free.


I was on the fence about buying vista, but now i bought it for the super nice intro offer. $449 for the ensemble strings and solo strings package as an intro price is way better than i thought


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder why the release of Pacific Strings Ens. is tied to the release of Pacific Solo Strings ?

Why not release Pacific Strings (Ens.) first if/when they are ready, then release the Pacific Solo Strings when they are ready at a later date ?

This just makes me feel like it's just another excuse to delay the release of Pacific Ens. Strings.


----------



## jazzman7

I had been primed for a while now about Pacific, making room in the budget and holding off other spending. I must say this solo string addition is a huge additional incentive. 

To paraphrase a certain movie line: 

"GAS is just like Gravity. All it takes is a little push!"


----------



## chapbot

jazzman7 said:


> I had been primed for a while now about Pacific, making room in the budget and holding off other spending. I must say this solo string addition is a huge additional incentive.
> 
> To paraphrase a certain movie line:
> 
> "GAS is just like Gravity. All it takes is a little push!"


Yep I bet the addition of the solo strings will push hesitant people over the edge 🤣


----------



## jazzman7

chapbot said:


> Yep I bet the addition of the solo strings will push hesitant people over the edge 🤣


Yeah, I was hesitant...like a hungry dog and a dangling piece of prime rib Haha!


----------



## Futchibon

$449 with first chair cello and violin is amazing! The spiccs, tremelos, whisper sustains and sordinos sound fantastic, can't wait for this


----------



## Hendrixon

chapbot said:


> Yep I bet the addition of the solo strings will push hesitant people over the edge 🤣


----------



## Mike Fox

artinro said:


> I found my coat and ventured out. I return bearing news. Jasper is still in the midst of his move, but here’s what he said:
> 
> “Pacific” is a library encompassing ensemble strings, winds, brass and percussion. Each one is its own module available to purchase separately. Pacific solo strings will also be a separate module available to purchase separately but released at the same time as the ensemble strings. However, for folks who order ensemble during the intro period, solo strings will be free.


Why doesn’t Jasper share this information himself on here? I can’t think of any other developer that has a middle man to relay info on VI for them. Genuinely curious.


----------



## Zanshin

Mike Fox said:


> Why doesn’t Jasper share this information himself on here? I can’t think of any other developer that has a middle man to relay info on VI for them. Genuinely curious.


I think there are a few jerks around here that rubbed him the wrong way. Spitfire basically is gone now too.


----------



## Evans

Zanshin said:


> I think there are a few jerks around here that rubbed him the wrong way. Spitfire basically is gone now too.


They don't need us, we need them.


----------



## artinro

Mike Fox said:


> Why doesn’t Jasper share this information himself on here? I can’t think of any other developer that has a middle man to relay info on VI for them. Genuinely curious.


Just to clarify, I’m not a spokesman for Performance Samples. I’m just a tester for Jasper for certain projects, I speak with him directly on occasion, and I happen to be active here on the forum. I try to provide info I have when someone asks me a question here on VI.


----------



## jazzman7

If being on here was worth it for them cost/benefit wise, the devs would be posting on here more. They certainly advertise here. I would think it's a business decision rather than an emotional one. "Oh, we are just so mean to them".

We are all human... but if you are a competitor or salesman and have such a problem with getting your feelings hurt, you may want to find another line of work


----------



## axb312

artinro said:


> Just to clarify, I’m not a spokesman for Performance Samples. I’m just a tester for Jasper for certain projects, I speak with him directly on occasion, and I happen to be active here on the forum. I try to provide info I have when someone asks me a question here on VI.


I thank you for the updates...


----------



## Zanshin

jazzman7 said:


> If being on here was worth it for them cost/benefit wise, the devs would be posting on here more. They certainly advertise here. I would think it's a business decision rather than an emotional one. "Oh, we are just so mean to them".
> 
> We are all human... but if you are a competitor or salesman and have such a problem with getting your feelings hurt, you may want to find another line of work


I think it's too much to expect any developer to stick around here and be a punching bag, what's the incentive? Are we buying less Spitfire products now that Christian Henson and co. are not personally frequenting the site? It's our loss.

Here's a post regarding Jasper's exit from this forum:






Announcing: Oceania II - 100-Person Symphonic Choir


It's a bit unclear for me what will happen to my $99 price - being the owner of O1- after the intro price ends. Has anyone seen any info on that? Do we still get the loyalty discount from the initial price after the intro pricing ends, and if yes, how much will it be?




vi-control.net


----------



## Noeticus

Jasper is so amazingly talented that if he spends his time away from this forum it is fine with me, as he is currently about to release a library that FINALLY has LOTS of DYNAMICS!!!


----------



## Noeticus

Also, it would be nice to see more erudition on this forum, so as to not irritate some developers away.


----------



## Hendrixon

Mike Fox said:


> Why doesn’t Jasper share this information himself on here? I can’t think of any other developer that has a middle man to relay info on VI for them. Genuinely curious.


Jasper can't handle Muziksculp the truth


----------



## Peter Satera

artinro said:


> I found my coat and ventured out. I return bearing news. Jasper is still in the midst of his move, but here’s what he said:
> 
> “Pacific” is a library encompassing ensemble strings, winds, brass and percussion. Each one is its own module available to purchase separately. Pacific solo strings will also be a separate module available to purchase separately but released at the same time as the ensemble strings. However, for folks who order ensemble during the intro period, solo strings will be free.


Yo Artinro. I was just joking around, but thank you for finding this out!!


----------



## jazzman7

Zanshin said:


> I think it's too much to expect any developer to stick around here and be a punching bag, what's the incentive? Are we buying less Spitfire products now that Christian Henson and co. are not personally frequenting the site? It's our loss.
> 
> Here's a post regarding Jasper's exit from this forum:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Announcing: Oceania II - 100-Person Symphonic Choir
> 
> 
> It's a bit unclear for me what will happen to my $99 price - being the owner of O1- after the intro price ends. Has anyone seen any info on that? Do we still get the loyalty discount from the initial price after the intro pricing ends, and if yes, how much will it be?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


As a developer tho, I'd bet the bigger reason He left was that He had better things to do than posting a lot on here. I'm sure if He was a punching bag, that probably didn't help. Still, the chance to ask people like SF why they can't fix a spicc timing issue after 2 years (when they release a major VI every month lately) has got to be hard to pass up.

Heck, I sometimes don't have the time to post, and I'm just a studio guy writing a few tunes and dabbling in Scoring.

It's true we can sometimes be a cranky lot, but I've found the back and forth to often be useful.

These Devs ask a lot when it comes to taking some expensive professional products on faith. I like having a community of smart people around to kick the tires with.


----------



## clisma

jazzman7 said:


> As a developer tho, I'd bet is the bigger reason *He* left was that *He* had better things to do than posting a lot on here. I'm sure if *He* was a punching bag, that probably didn't help.


I mean, I know the guy makes some incredible sampled instruments, but has he truly reached divine status? If so, we might have to raise the bar a little...

Edit: perhaps we start with beatification? Saint Jasper, anyone?


----------



## wlinart

Tbh, as a developer i would probably also be fed up by being asked "is it ready yet?" a few times a day, usually followed by demands for 2nd violins or something else that's missing


----------



## CT

This forum can be very "unproductive" at times for developers to linger on. There's no doubt about that. Would be great if that changed. I think it's a little better than it used to be, anyway.


----------



## Futchibon

wlinart said:


> Tbh, as a developer i would probably also be fed up by being asked "is it ready yet?" a few times a day, usually followed by demands for 2nd violins or something else that's missing


Mr. Pink has graciously volunteered to provide the 2nd violins for Pacific for those wanting them


----------



## jazzman7

clisma said:


> I mean, I know the guy makes some incredible sampled instruments, but has he truly reached divine status? If so, we might have to raise the bar a little...
> 
> Edit: perhaps we start with beatification? Saint Jasper, anyone?


I'm grammatically challenged! I misplaced my is and and capitalized my pronouns! Pray to Saint Jasper that I be healed! (Tax free donations also accepted!)


----------



## jazzman7

Might as well pray for 2nd Violins while we are at it!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

jazzman7 said:


> Might as well pray for 2nd Violins while we are at it!


2nd violins are only for those lame purists. Unneeded when you have so much performance in your samples.


----------



## bvaughn0402

I didn't realize he had left the forum.

I do have respect for those developers that do this ... or why they do it ...

But at the same time, as a consumer ... I definitely put priority and loyalty for those developers that weather the storm of being a punching bag on here to serve the other customers who value what they do.


----------



## jon wayne

Just out of curiosity, after you’ve spent $159 on Vista, are you going to ditch it when Pacific comes out?


----------



## Futchibon

jon wayne said:


> Just out of curiosity, after you’ve spent $159 on Vista, are you going to ditch it when Pacific comes out?


Vista is chamber sized, Pacific symphonic, they should go great together.


----------



## muziksculp

Maybe Vista can be ditched when Voyage is released .. I'm guessing in 2025


----------



## jazzman7

ALittleNightMusic said:


> 2nd violins are only for those lame purists. Unneeded when you have so much performance in your samples.


I'll cop to lame, but purist? Truth be told, my 2nd Vln writing skills are a bit shaky without reading it out of a book or pasting off a google search haha


----------



## gohrev

I will defend the 2nd Violin section, the orchestra's ugly little sister, until my dying day.


----------



## jamwerks

The lack of a seperate 2nd Violins sections does keep production costs down, would cost them 25% more to add them. Once Performance samples will have deep pockets and assured sales figures, they probably will alway have a dedicated 2nd Violin sections. But Pacfica is probably a huge investiment and daring move for such a young and small company.

Personally, for all my string libraries I've had to artificially exchange the placement between 2nd Violins and Celli. I like have V-2's far right opposite V-1's far left. And I hate having everything low (Celli, Double basses, Bassoons, Trombones, Tuba) all on the right. So I put Celli left-center and Double basses straight-up the middle.


----------



## gohrev

jamwerks said:


> Personally, for all my string libraries I've had to artificially exchange the placement between 2nd Violins and Celli. I like have V-2's far right opposite V-1's far left. And I hate having everything low (Celli, Double basses, Bassoons, Trombones, Tuba) all on the right. So I put Celli left-center and Double basses straight-up the middle.


Ha, I know what you mean. I place the V-2 on the right, the Violas left of the centre, Celli stay where they are (right of centre) and Contrabasses smack in the middle.


----------



## FireGS

Here we go again..


----------



## Noeticus

Since I am new to music creation, why are there generally no second violas, or second cellos etc.?


----------



## FireGS

Noeticus said:


> Since I am new to music creation, why are there generally no second violas, or second cellos etc.?


There are, actually, if you write for them (Divisi).

Lower pitched instruments have more "volume power", so they tend to need less of them on the stage, but you need a lot more violins in the higher pitches to achieve the same "balance".

Violin 2 section is basically a violin divisi section (fight me).


----------



## Mike Fox

Noeticus said:


> Since I am new to music creation, why are there generally no second violas, or second cellos etc.?


Same reason bands don’t need a bass player.


----------



## ism

FireGS said:


> Violin 2 section is basically a violin divisi section (fight me).



Well yes, ... but I'd also argue that in the sample library world things can be a little bit more complex.

In particular, the second violins can provide very different timbres and expressive nuance in the performances. Part of this will be the detail of slightly small section sized of the 2nd violins. But in practice it's often more than that.

For instance, LCSC and SStS have 2nd violins with a slightly more nasally sound. So shifting a melodic lead to the 2nd violins significantly changes the colour. Shifting the lead between 1st and 2nd violins can really make a difference, if you're writing a piece within a musicality that really care about timbral colourings.

But it's sometimes even more dramatic. The Berlin Strings 2nd violins have a very different quality that the 1st violins that I especially like. 1st violins, even in the soft articulations, are much more soaring, while the 2nd violins have a gentler sound, but I often prefer to use as lead. The dynamic are quite different also, especially in some of the arcs, which further shifts the expressive dimension. This gives BS a more expansive palette that something like CSS, though of course at the cost of homogeneity or if you prefer, consistency.

Spitfire Apassionata is another library where I find the 2nd violins have a significantly different colouring in both timbre and the expressiveness. It's more subtle that most of the above. But it's something I find it well works paying attention to.

Except for the section size, I think there's an argument to be made here that this something of an artifact of sampling, as such variations of timbral colour and expressive nuance would be something that a conductor could just ask either a section to lean into with a live orchestral.

But this is why I'm often very happy to have 2nd violins in sample libraries. And I really do find it worthwhile to lean into their differences in colour.


----------



## zwhita

No Second Violins, No Active Bow sustains, No traditional seating, Only 2 Mic positions, No Flautandos, It doesn't make tea...

This is what happens when you get to page 97 and the product still isn't released. I just hope someone buys it and rushes their demos out like Spitfire Apassionata. I would never have considered it if not for the talented folks here rushing them out.


----------



## Saxer

To me missing the 2nd violin section is a bit like a guitar without the G-string. Or a choir without altos. It's the second voice of the section.
In sample world... well, you can load two first's or load another library... but the second voice has to be there.


----------



## ism

Of course, if you’re just using violins as another harmonic line, having 2nd violins sampled doesn’t necessarily matter much at all.


----------



## CT

zwhita said:


> No Active Bow sustains


I don't know either way, but I think that like most of his other projects, this one probably uses or builds on ideas from previous ones that proved successful, so perhaps there was something like this at work.



zwhita said:


> No traditional seating


Not sure where this came from. The seating of this library was pretty much the traditional one seen in most string libraries, the only difference being that the basses are a little further towards the center than hard right.



zwhita said:


> No Flautandos


The "Whisper Sustains" are a good stand-in for soft coloristic bowings like flautando, sul tasto, harmonics....



zwhita said:


> It doesn't make tea...


I am lobbying for a complimentary cup of Earl Grey with purchase.


----------



## FireGS

ism said:


> Well yes, ... but I'd also argue that in the sample library world things can be a little bit more complex.
> 
> In particular, the second violins can provide very different timbres and expressive nuance in the performances. Part of this will be the detail of slightly small section sized of the 2nd violins. But in practice it's often more than that.
> 
> For instance, LCSC and SStS have 2nd violins with a slightly more nasally sound. So shifting a melodic lead to the 2nd violins significantly changes the colour. Shifting the lead between 1st and 2nd violins can really make a difference, if you're writing a piece within a musicality that really care about timbral colourings.
> 
> But it's sometimes even more dramatic. The Berlin Strings 2nd violins have a very different quality that the 1st violins that I especially like. 1st violins, even in the soft articulations, are much more soaring, while the 2nd violins have a gentler sound, but I often prefer to use as lead. The dynamic are quite different also, especially in some of the arcs, which further shifts the expressive dimension. This gives BS a more expansive palette that something like CSS, though of course at the cost of homogeneity or if you prefer, consistency.
> 
> Spitfire Apassionata is another library where I find the 2nd violins have a significantly different colouring in both timbre and the expressiveness. It's more subtle that most of the above. But it's something I find it well works paying attention to.
> 
> Except for the section size, I think there's an argument to be made here that this something of an artifact of sampling, as such variations of timbral colour and expressive nuance would be something that a conductor could just ask either a section to lean into with a live orchestral.
> 
> But this is why I'm often very happy to have 2nd violins in sample libraries. And I really do find it worthwhile to lean into their differences in colour.


FWIW, I was talking about Violins 2 theoretically, not how sample library developers have done it in practice.


----------



## mikeh-375

ALittleNightMusic said:


> 2nd violins are only for those lame purists. Unneeded when you have so much performance in your samples.


ahhh, but needed when you have orchestral music that is well written.....


----------



## doctoremmet

So. Resuming: there are GOOD arguments to be made to include a 2nd Violins Patch in any string library. Either because without one it is near impossible to write any good or PROPER orchestral music or because more samples means more choices and a broader set of sonic options. These things are true.

That means that for certain people Pacific will be a pass. They either don’t need it. Are completely unable to crank out even ONE good piece with it. Or don’t buy it out of principle. Or WOULD have bought it -hell, even easily paying a 25% higher price - had Jasper decided to include 2nd Violins after all. But since he doesn’t, they WILL NOT BUY IT. Then there are others who will buy it, albeit heavily disappointed and since the developer may occasionally read this thread they may on occasion ask him to reconsider.

We get this. We, the people who are likely to purchase Pacific. For reasons unknown, because of course our music written with it shall insta-suck. There have been two near-identical discussions about 2nd Violins and the lack-thereof in this thread. Maybe we should spin those pages off? So we can all just link to it, should the need to reiterate the complete and utter uselessness of Pacific (or Vista for that matter) ever arise again? Or maybe we could make a new thread called “Pacific anticipation thread for people who do not care about the lack of a Violins 2 patch”.


----------



## mikeh-375

After a long to and fro with this issue, I'll still probably buy it for the sound which is impressive from what I've heard. I will always write for minimum 5 part strings (or more) however given I don't have to worry about recording budgets anymore. I doubt there's a JW full orchestral score without seconds and there aren't that many scores for full orchestra in the Canon that don't have seconds.


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## holywilly

To achieve the balance sound of large string orchestra is that the total of violin players equal to the sum of players of viola, cello and bass, ideally we are looking at 16, 14, 12, 10, 8 for Pacific string, to achieve balanced sound in real life.


----------



## doctoremmet

Hahaha and on it goes. Because of course it does. Lol.


----------



## Henning

I have already posted this elsewhere in a similar discussion. But perhaps it is of interest here as well regarding recording strings and section sizes.









String Section Sizes - deBreved - Tim Davies Website


When I started working on large orchestral scores, the string section sizes were pretty standard, and similar to the concert hall where each lower section shrinks by two players. So for example, a standard orchestra might be 14 first violins, 12 seconds, 10 violas, 8 cello and 6 basses, or...




www.timusic.net


----------



## R.G.

Noeticus said:


> Since I am new to music creation, why are there generally no second violas, or second cellos etc.?


It evolved that way a long time ago with v1, v2, violas and cellos being the standard SATB 4-part group, and basses being the contra support for the cellos/bass line, though it's obviously evolved a great deal since.

And don’t confuse divisi with there being a truly separate, second group. These are two different things. Regular divisi splits at the desk, and can split other ways if need be, but the closest it can split into a _”two-separate-sections"_ effect is with a front/back divisi, which is still not the same as an actual, separate section.

Choosing to write a figure or line for the seconds is a deliberate orchestration choice seeking the totality of their particular effect. The v2 are filtered on account of being further back and behind v1, they have their own section leader, and they play with the added sensitivity of a “seconds” mentality, especially in relation to the firsts. It was a little different pre-WWI in some regions where the seconds were expected to be equal in number to the firsts, and positioned on the front right, in which case they were just as independent, but sacrificed some scoring options while gaining others.

But back to your question, with modern (big) film scores being thicker and more bottom heavy, sometimes 16 violas and 16 cellos are called in, in which case they are scored as two separate sections, seated as such, each with their own section leader, and all that a second section entails, which is not merely divisi.

Anyway, whichever way you allot the available strings into sections will change your scoring approach and the approach of the players, which is why you choose certain allotments in the first place when you have the flexibility to do so.


----------



## FireGS

R.G. said:


> The v2 are filtered on account of being further back and behind v1


Not always, and IMO not even frequently.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Well, while we’re on the topic of 2nd violins. Does anyone have a good YouTube video on the matter? Of how one should write for 2nd violins? Usually I just use them an octave below my 1st violin melody. And do counter point with viola. Is there a better way? Do you write separate Melodies with violin 2 to full effect? Does anyone have a link to a string piece with their favorite implementation that’s not a crowded mix and one could easily hear what’s going on and how it’s implemented?

Thank u!


----------



## CT

I don't think "what to do with 2nd violins?" will be adequately covered by a YouTube video. That's a question so elemental that it really can only be addressed by studying scores. 

Also the next person to mention 2nd violins will be banned for life from the forum after writing "I can transpose and adjust panning of the 1st violins in the absence of recorded 2nd violins and my music will not fall apart" a thousand times on the chalkboard. Bloody hell.


----------



## jamwerks

In a piece containing just two violin sections (nothing else, so totally exposed) having two (slightly) different sounding instruments brings a lot to the table. If you're recording two separate lead guitar parts, you probably wouldn't want the same instrument, signal chain and player on both parts.

But with a whole string section, and other elements (winds, brass, synths) present, having both violin sections the same isn't that big a deal sonically.

It seems like this library will be bringing lots of other novelties and ear candy to the mix that will make it worth it !!


----------



## jamessy

Baronvonheadless said:


> Well, while we’re on the topic of 2nd violins. Does anyone have a good YouTube video on the matter? Of how one should write for 2nd violins? Usually I just use them an octave below my 1st violin melody. And do counter point with viola. Is there a better way? Do you write separate Melodies with violin 2 to full effect? Does anyone have a link to a string piece with their favorite implementation that’s not a crowded mix and one could easily hear what’s going on and how it’s implemented?
> 
> Thank u!


Whenever you listen to any classical music on youtube, type 'score' with your search and you can follow along with the sheet music and see how the composer is using the 2nd violins

 for example


----------



## Baronvonheadless

jamessy said:


> Whenever you listen to any classical music on youtube, type 'score' with your search and you can follow along with the sheet music and see how the composer is using the 2nd violins
> 
> for example



I don’t read music, I learn everything by melody by ear and write each part that way at the moment.


----------



## Living Fossil

Baronvonheadless said:


> I don’t read music, I learn everything by melody by ear and write each part that way at the moment.


Well, try to make a correlation between what you see and what you hear, even if you have problems to read notes.

A note that looks higher on the staff than another one is higher; and the rhythmic notation (e.g. quarters vs. sixteenth notes) is something you can learn in around 25 seconds.

Seriously, there is no way around scores at some point if you want to learn how to use orchestral instruments in context.


----------



## jamessy

Baronvonheadless said:


> I don’t read music, I learn everything by melody by ear and write each part that way at the moment.


You don't, or you can't? Not trying to be rude by any means. If you're familiar enough with how the staff works, even if you aren't identifying what specific notes are what, you can get a feel for when the composer uses thirds vs octaves, or hold notes while the other plays another pattern, etc.. If you can recognize the difference between a quarter note and a half note then you can see in the example I timestamped how the two sections play in different rhythms, I'm sure you can hear it but there's a lot to gain and unlock from analyzing it on paper


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

For the transposition method, what’s the right setup so that both live playing and entering MIDI notes are still “correct” notes but the samples played are shifted? I tried it on Logic (track transpose plus Kontakt transpose) but I had to transpose my live playing for some reason.


----------



## soulofsound

holywilly said:


> To achieve the balance sound of large string orchestra is that the total of violin players equal to the sum of players of viola, cello and bass, ideally we are looking at 16, 14, 12, 10, 8 for Pacific string, to achieve balanced sound in real life.


Indeed. And the spiccato examples show layering 'too many notes' detract from a natural orchestral sound. That said i will still buy it. But second violins and divisi would be nice for a +$500 strings library.


----------



## soulofsound

jamessy said:


> You don't, or you can't? Not trying to be rude by any means. If you're familiar enough with how the staff works, even if you aren't identifying what specific notes are what, you can get a feel for when the composer uses thirds vs octaves, or hold notes while the other plays another pattern, etc.. If you can recognize the difference between a quarter note and a half note then you can see in the example I timestamped how the two sections play in different rhythms, I'm sure you can hear it but there's a lot to gain and unlock from analyzing it on paper


No doubt. But mentally processing music and intuitively processing music or by feeling are quite distinct. I know almost nobody who can do both. I can read music but i don't use it cause it diminishes my experience when listening or writing. And i know many (mostly jazz) guys who can do wonderful things analyzing, and it is so different from how i approach music, i could never get that result. I guess it comes down to personality structure.


----------



## zolhof

ALittleNightMusic said:


> For the transposition method, what’s the right setup so that both live playing and entering MIDI notes are still “correct” notes but the samples played are shifted? I tried it on Logic (track transpose plus Kontakt transpose) but I had to transpose my live playing for some reason.


I'm not a Logic user, but don't you have something similar to MIDI modifiers?






Also make sure you are using the Tune knob in Kontakt to actually detune the samples, instead of just transposing the MIDI.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

soulofsound said:


> No doubt. But mentally processing music and intuitively processing music or by feeling are quite distinct. I know almost nobody who can do both. I can read music but i don't use it cause it diminishes my experience when listening or writing. And i know many (mostly jazz) guys who can do wonderful things analyzing, and it is so different from how i approach music, i could never get that result. I guess it comes down to personality structure.


Yeah I’ve always trusted and written from my gut. I’m a guitar player and mostly just learned chords and figured out my own way of piercing them together in unique ways to sing off of. I understand a bit of theory to an extent, but I’m more of a savant. I feel like I understand, in nature, complex theory that I can’t explain in principal. I just get it. 

And I find as a singer, my ear and gift for melody and harmony are just embedded in me. 

Each instrument in an orchestra is really just a voice, so I never think of chords I think of multiple singers and rhythms. 

It would be nice to learn, but the mathmatics/pen and paper side of music has always just intimidated me/sucked the fun out of it. I’ve always been like an African grey parrot haha, just copying what I hear instantly and re arranging it and emulating to the point of interpreting my taste in unique ways. 

I feel like yes, to understand orchestral music better and to explain second violins reading music and seeing the score would help. But I’m sure there could be ways to explain it without. 

It’s like studying the ever ugly brothers harmonies and seeing how it influenced the Beatles and how that influenced music all the way to nirvana. 

Melody lines are melody lines.


----------



## jamessy

soulofsound said:


> No doubt. But mentally processing music and intuitively processing music or by feeling are quite distinct. I know almost nobody who can do both. I can read music but i don't use it cause it diminishes my experience when listening or writing. And i know many (mostly jazz) guys who can do wonderful things analyzing, and it is so different from how i approach music, i could never get that result. I guess it comes down to personality structure.


Fair enough, but whether you lean one way or the other, there's a lot to gain from studying scores. 

I tend to use art analogies a lot because that's the field my career is in, so I would compare it to something along the lines of practicing a lot of figure drawing and anatomy even if you just want to draw stylized cartoons that break all the rules. Never a bad idea to spend some time studying the classic stuff


----------



## soulofsound

jamessy said:


> Fair enough, but whether you lean one way or the other, there's a lot to gain from studying scores.
> 
> I tend to use art analogies a lot because that's the field my career is in, so I would compare it to something along the lines of practicing a lot of figure drawing and anatomy even if you just want to draw stylized cartoons that break all the rules. Never a bad idea to spend some time studying the classic stuff


I totally agree. Learning the classics i think is essential. My point was about how you learn it. Do you play along? Do you study a score? Do you analyze it in your head like Mozart, if you can? My experience tells me everyone has a unique way of doing things. While it helps going out of my comfort zone to learn new things, to listen or write music i have to go back to how i naturally approach it. My two cents.


----------



## R.G.

R.G. said:


> The v2 are filtered on account of being further back and behind v1...





FireGS said:


> Not always, and IMO not even frequently.


The effect of filtering on v2 tone is commonly understood amongst conductors, violinists, and orchestral composers/arrangers/orchestrators, and it happens in every case, even in the rarely used antiphonal arrangement, though the reason there is a little different.

The totality of the acoustical issues has to be considered. You don't notice hardly at all from a conductor's pov, which is why when you're studying conducting you learn about audience perception during balance classes. It's also one of the things you use to your advantage when scoring.

Since it's an acoustical issue, you have to consider how frequencies radiate outward from the instrument. With violins, the 2k–5k range is projected most strongly by v1 desks 1–5, partly because there is no acoustical interference between them and the audience, but even more so because that angle is where those freqs radiate most efficiently. With v2, they not only have acoustical interference, but they have distance, and a clockwise shift in varying angles from desk to desk, which, with respect to the audience, attenuates the 2k–5k somewhat and boosts the 1k–1.25k region. When you multiply these differences by whole sections, the color shifts become even more pronounced.

In the case of the rarely used antiphonal setting, v2 is pointing its 2k – 5k mostly towards the winds, and radiating 350Hz – 700Hz most strongly towards the audience, with the f-holes and top plate angled away from the audience and pointed in the opposite direction.

But back to the usual arrangement, the seating chart below is about the most common you'll find amongst a few others where all violins are on the stage left. I added some fat arrows corresponding to the direction of the brightest radiation of tone on average from v1 and v2. The v2 shoot their brightest freqs in and through v1 and towards the left, while v1's brightness goes straight to the audience, and with no barriers for most of the section.


----------



## Nils Neumann

R.G. said:


> The effect of filtering on v2 tone is commonly understood amongst conductors, violinists, and orchestral composers/arrangers/orchestrators, and it happens in every case, even in the rarely used antiphonal arrangement, though the reason there is a little different.
> 
> The totality of the acoustical issues has to be considered. You don't notice hardly at all from a conductor's pov, which is why when you're studying conducting you learn about audience perception during balance classes. It's also one of the things you use to your advantage when scoring.
> 
> Since it's an acoustical issue, you have to consider how frequencies radiate outward from the instrument. With violins, the 2k–5k range is projected most strongly by v1 desks 1–5, partly because there is no acoustical interference between them and the audience, but even more so because that angle is where those freqs radiate most efficiently. With v2, they not only have acoustical interference, but they have distance, and a clockwise shift in varying angles from desk to desk, which, with respect to the audience, attenuates the 2k–5k somewhat and boosts the 1k–1.25k region. When you multiply these differences by whole sections, the color shifts become even more pronounced.
> 
> In the case of the rarely used antiphonal setting, v2 is pointing its 2k – 5k mostly towards the winds, and radiating 350Hz – 700Hz most strongly towards the audience, with the f-holes and top plate angled away from the audience and pointed in the opposite direction.
> 
> But back to the usual arrangement, the seating chart below is about the most common you'll find amongst a few others where all violins are on the stage left. I added some fat arrows corresponding to the direction of the brightest radiation of tone on average from v1 and v2. The v2 shoot their brightest freqs in and through v1 and towards the left, while v1's brightness goes straight to the audience, and with no barriers for most of the section.


Well put!


----------



## jazzman7

R.G. said:


> The effect of filtering on v2 tone is commonly understood amongst conductors, violinists, and orchestral composers/arrangers/orchestrators, and it happens in every case, even in the rarely used antiphonal arrangement, though the reason there is a little different.
> 
> The totality of the acoustical issues has to be considered. You don't notice hardly at all from a conductor's pov, which is why when you're studying conducting you learn about audience perception during balance classes. It's also one of the things you use to your advantage when scoring.
> 
> Since it's an acoustical issue, you have to consider how frequencies radiate outward from the instrument. With violins, the 2k–5k range is projected most strongly by v1 desks 1–5, partly because there is no acoustical interference between them and the audience, but even more so because that angle is where those freqs radiate most efficiently. With v2, they not only have acoustical interference, but they have distance, and a clockwise shift in varying angles from desk to desk, which, with respect to the audience, attenuates the 2k–5k somewhat and boosts the 1k–1.25k region. When you multiply these differences by whole sections, the color shifts become even more pronounced.
> 
> In the case of the rarely used antiphonal setting, v2 is pointing its 2k – 5k mostly towards the winds, and radiating 350Hz – 700Hz most strongly towards the audience, with the f-holes and top plate angled away from the audience and pointed in the opposite direction.
> 
> But back to the usual arrangement, the seating chart below is about the most common you'll find amongst a few others where all violins are on the stage left. I added some fat arrows corresponding to the direction of the brightest radiation of tone on average from v1 and v2. The v2 shoot their brightest freqs in and through v1 and towards the left, while v1's brightness goes straight to the audience, and with no barriers for most of the section.


Thanks for taking the time to post this. Very useful information and well done!


----------



## Pianolando

Baronvonheadless said:


> Well, while we’re on the topic of 2nd violins. Does anyone have a good YouTube video on the matter? Of how one should write for 2nd violins? Usually I just use them an octave below my 1st violin melody. And do counter point with viola. Is there a better way? Do you write separate Melodies with violin 2 to full effect? Does anyone have a link to a string piece with their favorite implementation that’s not a crowded mix and one could easily hear what’s going on and how it’s implemented?
> 
> Thank u!



Strings in an orchestra is a very homogenous instrument group compared to for example winds. Most often 2nds are used simply as the second voice below the firsts and above the violas. They can be used as you describe, to play octaves with firsts, but also unison melodies, 1+2 in a low register can be extremely expressive and beautiful. If the piece calls for lots of back and forth between firsts and seconds the placement might be altered to have seconds far right, that gives a super cool panning effect and makes them more easily identifiable. But that is just scraping the very first mm of the top layer of an endless ocean of string writing. Start by buying Samuel Adlers book and read it like a bible


----------



## DJiLAND

I saw a demo of 1st chair on his Facebook page. Very emotional and impressive!


----------



## aka70

From Jasper FB
"There's nothing fancy going on with these, but I wanted to have a detail layer for the Pacific Strings - violin and cello. 1st chair, multimic, so it sits in the room on top of the ensemble. The violin has multiple legato types (as of now: slur, bow-change, and bow-change slur for P4-P8).
My plan is to release it alongside Pacific (Ensemble) Strings - it will be purchasable separately (as its own library), but the plan is that this will be a free add-on during checkout for anyone grabbing Pacific (Ensemble) Strings during intro. A bonus for early adopters"

Very nice deal for those who will grab Pacific during the intro.


----------



## jazzman7

Me: 

My Wallet:


----------



## muziksculp

jazzman7 said:


> Me:
> 
> My Wallet:


You need to change your wallet.


----------



## jazzman7

muziksculp said:


> You need to change your wallet.


It's diaper is probably full, agreed


----------



## Futchibon

DJiLAND said:


> I saw a demo of 1st chair on his Facebook page. Very emotional and impressive!



Give me 1st chair violin and cello over 2nd violins any day!


----------



## tabulius

I need that solo violin and cello in my life!


----------



## Futchibon

jazzman7 said:


> Me:
> 
> My Wallet:


Cheap? No. Value for money. You bet!


----------



## novaburst

doctoremmet said:


> Or maybe we could make a new thread called “Pacific anticipation thread for people who do not care about the lack of a Violins 2 patch”.


i am not sure if its about not caring if there are 2nd violins or not, i think its more about when you are listing to a nice piece of music with drums, and double, base, cellos, trumpets, horns piano and a 100 other instruments playing there part 

I am not sure if some one will say oh my i cant hear the 2nd violins.

Also you can deliberately use another instrument to fill in for the 2nd violins


----------



## holywilly

Having and 2nd violins patch is convenient to produce paper scores from midi. 

We can always use transposition tricks to create the 2nd violins patch, not a big deal. 

The real question is, how close to release pacific? I certainly can’t wait.


----------



## soulofsound

DJiLAND said:


> I saw a demo of 1st chair on his Facebook page. Very emotional and impressive!



Gorgeous sound.


----------



## Casiquire

novaburst said:


> i am not sure if its about not caring if there are 2nd violins or not, i think its more about when you are listing to a nice piece of music with drums, and double, base, cellos, trumpets, horns piano and a 100 other instruments playing there part
> 
> I am not sure if some one will say oh my i cant hear the 2nd violins.
> 
> Also you can deliberately use another instrument to fill in for the 2nd violins


Someone would definitely notice if they played the same note from time to time, especially if it's out of phase. It's less about what someone would notice, and more about the principle of a library this expensive putting that on the end user


----------



## muziksculp

A 2nd Violins Switch/Button, that applies the transposition trick to transform the First Vlns to Second Violin Section would be a very welcome feature. 

This should be super easy to implement for Jasper. Although the transposition trick is easy and fast to do by the user, making it possible to perform with a flip of a switch on the GUI would be a very helpful feature.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I might be doing something wrong, but I noticed a couple of issues with the transpose trick:
- You lose out on the low G / Gb (or the top two notes depending on how you transpose)

Edit: Something was wrong with the session.


----------



## jamessy

What would be your recommendations for constructing violins ii when a library doesn't provide them?


----------



## Jonathan Moray

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I might be doing something wrong, but I noticed a couple of issues with the transpose trick:
> - You lose out on the low G
> - The sound seems much less ambient for some reason
> - The legato transitions don't seem to be there
> 
> The way I set this up was a MIDI transformer in Logic that was set to -2 semitones and then the Tune knob on the Vista patch was set to +2 semitones.
> 
> First is the regular violins patch and then followed by the transposed version. Same exact MIDI.
> 
> View attachment 72681


If you want to keep the low G, do it the other way around: -2 Semitones on the tune knob in Kontakt and then transpose it by +2. Now the Violins go down to F but you lose the highest two notes of the register instead. If those highest notes are important, you could always go in and extend the range if the instrument allows it.

Something with your example is very wrong. I don't know what, but it's definitely not correct.

Here's what the transposition trick is supposed to sound like. One of the two first versions is transposed, the other is not, and lastly, they both play together without any unpleasant phasing.

Some here seem very against the transposition trick, and I can understand some of the reasoning, but I can't understand when saying it sounds "bad" or that you lose fidelity when doing it -- it's minimal. I personally can barely distinguish between the two versions in a mix, and could not say that one sounds better than the other, just different.

There are also other tricks one could apply to make the transposed version sound more 2nd violin-like.

View attachment Violins Transposition Trick.mp3


----------



## Johnny

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I might be doing something wrong, but I noticed a couple of issues with the transpose trick:
> - You lose out on the low G
> - The sound seems much less ambient for some reason
> - The legato transitions don't seem to be there
> 
> The way I set this up was a MIDI transformer in Logic that was set to -2 semitones and then the Tune knob on the Vista patch was set to +2 semitones.
> 
> First is the regular violins patch and then followed by the transposed version. Same exact MIDI.
> 
> View attachment 72681


Did you render this in mono?


----------



## chapbot

jamessy said:


> What would be your recommendations for constructing violins ii when a library doesn't provide them?


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> You need to change your wallet.


The hope and glorious promise of Pacific strings has once again ignited in our hearts... We must stay strong ♥️


----------



## Gabriel S.

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I might be doing something wrong, but I noticed a couple of issues with the transpose trick:
> - You lose out on the low G
> - The sound seems much less ambient for some reason
> - The legato transitions don't seem to be there
> 
> The way I set this up was a MIDI transformer in Logic that was set to -2 semitones and then the Tune knob on the Vista patch was set to +2 semitones.
> 
> First is the regular violins patch and then followed by the transposed version. Same exact MIDI.
> 
> View attachment 72681


Same melody line with Vista. First normal, then with the Transposition trick, but doing -2 instead of +2 like Jonathan just told you

It definitely works. With the TT also the sound is less aggressive in the high mids and also less bright, which would make them feel a little further back than the normal V1 and more like a V2. To me it works 100%, I'd need to adjust the panning and work a bit more on it and done.

So, check your session because something is definitely wrong.


----------



## muziksculp

AI's JAEGER has it, so something similar for Pacific Strings would be great.


----------



## Gabriel S.

And here another test


ALittleNightMusic said:


> I might be doing something wrong, but I noticed a couple of issues with the transpose trick:
> - You lose out on the low G
> - The sound seems much less ambient for some reason
> - The legato transitions don't seem to be there
> 
> The way I set this up was a MIDI transformer in Logic that was set to -2 semitones and then the Tune knob on the Vista patch was set to +2 semitones.
> 
> First is the regular violins patch and then followed by the transposed version. Same exact MIDI.
> 
> View attachment 72681


And here another reason why it should be -2 in Kontakt and not +2 (specially for faking a V2 section).

First, normal V1. Then -2 (sounds darker), then +2 (sounds brighter).


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Gabriel S. said:


> Same melody line with Vista. First normal, then with the Transposition trick, but doing -2 instead of +2 like Jonathan just told you
> 
> It definitely works. With the TT also the sound is less aggressive in the high mids and also less bright, which would make them feel a little further back than the normal V1 and more like a V2. To me it works 100%, I'd need to adjust the panning and work a bit more on it and done.
> 
> So, check your session because something is definitely wrong.



Yeah something was off - not sure what since this is a template and I didn't change anything, but I tried it again (with +2 instead of -2 in Kontakt per the suggestions) and it seems fine now. Thanks for the debugging to you and @Jonathan Moray !


----------



## Eptesicus

DJiLAND said:


> I saw a demo of 1st chair on his Facebook page. Very emotional and impressive!




Wait, i didnt think it came with 1st chair solos too? Is that a new addition, or will this be a seperate product?

I must admit that if it is included that makes the value proposition a bit better.


----------



## Kony

Eptesicus said:


> Wait, i didnt think it came with 1st chair solos too? Is that a new addition, or will this be a seperate product?
> 
> I must admit that if it is included that makes the value proposition a bit better.





aka70 said:


> From Jasper FB
> "There's nothing fancy going on with these, but I wanted to have a detail layer for the Pacific Strings - violin and cello. 1st chair, multimic, so it sits in the room on top of the ensemble. The violin has multiple legato types (as of now: slur, bow-change, and bow-change slur for P4-P8).
> My plan is to release it alongside Pacific (Ensemble) Strings - it will be purchasable separately (as its own library), but the plan is that this will be a free add-on during checkout for anyone grabbing Pacific (Ensemble) Strings during intro. A bonus for early adopters"
> 
> Very nice deal for those who will grab Pacific during the intro.


----------



## Eptesicus

Ha, thanks. Completely missed that!

That does make the intro loyalty price a bit better. I have always wanted a solo cello from PS. Their solos of the sea are great.


----------



## BasariStudios

muziksculp said:


> AI's JAEGER has it, so something similar for Pacific Strings would be great.


Man the worst Legato i have hear, unless something is wrong with my version.


----------



## muziksculp

BasariStudios said:


> Man the worst Legato i have hear, unless something is wrong with my version.


I'm not referring to legato quality, I'm referring to the button that allows one to enable the transposition trick to make violins 1 sound different to be used as violins 2. Which is a feature JAEGER offers in the GUI.


----------



## AMBi

BasariStudios said:


> Man the worst Legato i have hear, unless something is wrong with my version.


The Performance patch doesn’t use it’s standard legato samples.
Try the main Multisamples legato patch.


----------



## novaburst

Casiquire said:


> Someone would definitely notice if they played the same note from time to time, especially if it's out of phase. It's less about what someone would notice, and more about the principle of a library this expensive putting that on the end user


You can write for 2nd violins or not, because there are no 2nd violins does not mean you can't use 1st violins, 

Not every thing needs to be in the hi way or traditional, if you can make music with it or if it fits your needs then use it


----------



## BasariStudios

AMBi said:


> The Performance patch doesn’t use it’s standard legato samples.
> Try the main Multisamples legato patch.


Thanks? I will check that. I don't remember which one i use but its very bad. Each note has a Marcato.


----------



## jbuhler

Jonathan Moray said:


> If you want to keep the low G, do it the other way around: -2 Semitones on the tune knob in Kontakt and then transpose it by +2. Now the Violins go down to F but you lose the highest two notes of the register instead. If those highest notes are important, you could always go in and extend the range if the instrument allows it.
> 
> Something with your example is very wrong. I don't know what, but it's definitely not correct.
> 
> Here's what the transposition trick is supposed to sound like. One of the two first versions is transposed, the other is not, and lastly, they both play together without any unpleasant phasing.
> 
> Some here seem very against the transposition trick, and I can understand some of the reasoning, but I can't understand when saying it sounds "bad" or that you lose fidelity when doing it -- it's minimal. I personally can barely distinguish between the two versions in a mix, and could not say that one sounds better than the other, just different.
> 
> There are also other tricks one could apply to make the transposed version sound more 2nd violin-like.
> 
> View attachment Violins Transposition Trick.mp3


Down tuning usually works better than up tuning. I find the timbral shift is more characteristic of seconds too. It doesn’t solve the subtle positioning issue if that matters. 

Personally second violins are not a place I would economize on, though I understand it increases the editing labor by 25% and it can often seem like that time and money is better spent elsewhere since there are many serviceable workarounds to not having seconds. But I find I don’t use my libraries without second violins as much and usually only for supplemental legatos if they have good ones or for shorts where it’s often easier to “cheat.” But I find libraries without seconds just aren’t as effective for basic string sections when writing for traditional orchestra. As I said one can make do. But why make do when you don’t have to?


----------



## BasariStudios

AMBi said:


> The Performance patch doesn’t use it’s standard legato samples.
> Try the main Multisamples legato patch.


I tried now, unfortunately is the same, maybe worse,
it is totally useless for me:


----------



## jamwerks

You mean there's no first chair for the 2nd violins?  Oh man!


----------



## FireGS

_JESUS CHRIST, _this thread.


----------



## AMBi

BasariStudios said:


> I tried now, unfortunately is the same, maybe worse,
> it is totally useless for me:


There's an odd volume dip when a note is held after a transition but as far as the transitions themselves it's not the worst I've heard personally 
It's less suited for softer passages so that may explain the more immediate attacks

I have at least 3 string libraries with worse legato than that lol


----------



## Gabriel S.

FireGS said:


> _JESUS CHRIST, _this thread.


Which wave is this?


----------



## FireGS

Gabriel S. said:


> Which wave is this?


I fear not the last.


----------



## Zanshin

FireGS said:


> I fear not the last.


I think some people like to pontificate. Like - of course you don't have to "make do" you can just move on already.


----------



## BasariStudios

FireGS said:


> _JESUS CHRIST, _this thread.


Why? You missed the whole HOOPUS thread last year?


----------



## BasariStudios

AMBi said:


> There's an odd volume dip when a note is held after a transition but as far as the transitions themselves it's not the worst I've heard personally
> It's less suited for softer passages so that may explain the more immediate attacks
> 
> I have at least 3 string libraries with worse legato than that lol


Let's see, they said last year that they will do something.


----------



## Futchibon

Interesting that Tundra is very much loved by many yet has no violas...


----------



## Futchibon

FireGS said:


> _JESUS CHRIST, _this thread.


Please don't take Jasper's name in vein!


----------



## jbuhler

It’s a $1000 library without second violins, which will mean lots of kludgy workarounds. I mean if you are happy with that situation, cool. 



Futchibon said:


> Interesting that Tundra is very much loved by many yet has no violas...



Tundra isn’t selling itself as a comprehensive string library. I mean don’t be stupid.


----------



## jbuhler

The better comparison is with 8dio libraries, which don’t typically come with seconds. Or Audio Imperia. Or Musical Sampling. Neither of them have seconds. All of them lean in the direction of trailer and hybrid scoring. If that’s the market Pacific is aiming at then cool. It seems to be what that market wants.


----------



## Futchibon

jbuhler said:


> Tundra isn’t selling itself as a comprehensive string library. I mean don’t be stupid.


Neither is Pacific, it's a boutique library with limited arts, and unusual ones like whisper sustains.
And I'll be anything you want me to be


----------



## jamessy

jbuhler said:


> Tundra isn’t selling itself as a comprehensive string library. I mean don’t be stupid.


Wouldn't it be great though if Tundra _was_ a comprehensive string library?


----------



## CT

It took VSL about a couple decades to get on the 2nd violin train. Not just the trailer/hybrid demographic.


----------



## Futchibon

jamessy said:


> Wouldn't it be great though if Tundra _was_ a comprehensive string library?


Used with Neo and frozen strings I find it pretty comprehensive. They complement each other beautifully.


jbuhler said:


> It’s a $1000 library without second violins, which will mean lots of kludgy workarounds. I mean if you are happy with that situation, cool.


I always price a library at its cheapest value. It's $449 with first chair violins and cello, with amazing life lacking in a lot of other sample libraries. I'd recommend Afflatus to anyone for the same reason, although only on sale.

I hope you're not this dogmatic with your students. My profs are very encouraging of using new and unusual sections. 2nd violins are a relic of tradition, and tradition can be good and bad - just look at the disgraceful ostracism of the sax from the orchestra (although Kenny G and retro porn didn't help!) .

It would be good if Pacific had 2nds but they don't so no use wallowing in it. Don't buy it if you don't want to, but I bet $449 you will, as it's gonna be awesome!


----------



## jbuhler

jamessy said:


> Wouldn't it be great though if Tundra _was_ a comprehensive string library?


Sure. Hans Zimmer Strings in many respects is one comprehensive version of the Tundra Strings.


Futchibon said:


> Neither is Pacific, it's a boutique library with limited arts, and unusual ones like whisper sustains.


It seems to aim to be more than an ensemble library. If folks are happy making kludgy workarounds, that’s great. Because it doesn’t have seconds I think I’d end up using Pacific about as often as i use Vista, possibly a bit more because it does have shorts. But even the sale price owning Vista would make it the most I’ve paid for any string library since Berlin Strings. I have string libraries that retail for almost as much.

i do happily use ensemble libraries, so it’s not any kind purity at play. It’s just that if I’m going to bother dividing things into proper string sections it’s rather a bother to then have to mess around with the violins to get the seconds to sit right. I mean I’m pretty sure I’d be just fine with a second violin section derived from the firsts that came set up properly so that it was positioned right out of the box with adjustments made to avoid phasing and EQ so that it sounds appropriate for in situ. Yes, I can and have done it myself, but it’s a bother, and something I expect an expensive boutique library to show some interest in helping its users address.



Michaelt said:


> It took VSL about a couple decades to get on the 2nd violin train. Not just the trailer/hybrid demographic.


This is interesting, and not owning any VSL libraries (aside from what comes with factory Kontakt) I never looked into their history. Of course early VSL was famously dry so it was expected that you’d be positioning everything, and that might have contributed to the decision to forego recording seconds. But still as the original “definitely for the purists,” it’s interesting VSL thought a difference in sections didn’t matter enough to record a second section of violins. Times do change!



Futchibon said:


> I hope you're not this dogmatic with your students. My profs are very encouraging of using new and unusual sections. 2nd violins are a relic of tradition, and tradition can be good and bad - just look at the disgraceful ostracism of the sax from the orchestra (although Kenny G and retro porn didn't help!) .


I’m not dogmatic and I’m also no purist, and have no issue with folks doing whatever they want if it suits their music. Really if four string parts suit your writing there is no issue with this library. It’s also Jasper’s library and he’s completely free to do whatever he thinks is best. And the fact that he doesn’t much listen to forum chatter is almost certainly to the good. If I was a developer this place would drive me nuts. But I can also say that personally I dislike this particular choice quite a lot.

I simply report that my experience is that I use libraries without second violins quite a lot less than those with seconds. I have a lot of both and in the abstract I don’t dislike libraries without seconds. I mean that’s why I bought them. I know the workarounds. In the past I’ve almost certainly thought a library without seconds is no big deal. Indeed I like Vista quite a lot. But as I work I find it gets displaced by string libraries that have seconds, sometimes even strings I objectively like less, because the lack of seconds requires a workaround that always sounds not quite right. So Vista gets used primarily as a legato supplement for first violins and cellos. At the price I paid for it, that is still a decent value. I’m not sure the same can be said of Pacific. We’ll have to see how good the solo instruments turn out and if the high number of dynamic layers has the payoff it seems it could.

But also with all those dynamic layers it seems like Pacific is a library that wants to be at the core of my string section. And I just don’t see that being the case in the state the library will be released. (That is, without seconds.) Yes, of course, that’s a “me” problem. That goes without saying. The question is whether I’m just some random dude on the internet or representative of a larger set of users. (And I don’t mean just a few, I mean a lot, since it‘s only the latter case that matters at scale.)


----------



## Casiquire

Futchibon said:


> Neither is Pacific, it's a boutique library with limited arts, and unusual ones like whisper sustains.
> And I'll be anything you want me to be


They seem to be marketing them as a general-purpose string library, not specialized, with a comprehensive articulation list.

Tundra is an Albion library that isn't even aiming to be seen as a general purpose string library


----------



## DJiLAND

Anyway, there is no second violin, so I put the first violin in the MIR and place it on the second violin! (with a little tune trick)


----------



## Futchibon

Casiquire said:


> They seem to be marketing them as a general-purpose string library, not specialized, with a comprehensive articulation list.


I certainly hope it's comprehensive; from my understanding Voyage was going to be far more comprehensive - and expensive. But that's in the future and unclear now that AI have announced they're doing a chamber library with Jasper.

Where are you seeing it marketed as a general purpose library? It doesn't even have Staccatos...


Casiquire said:


> Tundra is an Albion library that isn't even aiming to be seen as a general purpose string library


I find the Albion series a bit unusual, Uist is a weird choice for an Albion, and ALbion 1 and 3 strike me as general purpose libs, while Tundra is very niche and very beautiful. THey certainly hit it out of the park with that one!


----------



## FireGS

Lets just all take a moment, and listen through this again, shall we?


----------



## muziksculp

Pacific Strings Library Size, any guesses ?


----------



## YahmezTV

Futchibon said:


> I certainly hope it's comprehensive; from my understanding Voyage was going to be far more comprehensive - and expensive. But that's in the future and unclear now that AI have announced they're doing a chamber library with Jasper.


Does this AI/PS chamber collaboration have a name yet? Anyone wanna bet it ends up rhyming with shmoyage?


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Pacific Strings Library Size, any guesses ?


I think they said around 30-35GB? Might have changed


YahmezTV said:


> Does this AI/PS chamber collaboration have a name yet? Anyone wanna bet it ends up rhyming with shmoyage?


Yeah it would be strange if Jasper did 2 chamber strings libraries, I really like Chorus so would love for Voyage to become a co-production


----------



## Futchibon

New @Blakus addition to the Performance Samples webpage:


----------



## Argy Ottas

Futchibon said:


> New @Blakus addition to the Performance Samples webpage:



Clearly no "seconds" on that 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Futchibon

Argy Ottas said:


> Clearly no "seconds" on that 🤣🤣🤣


It was ONLY seconds! 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Argy Ottas

Futchibon said:


> It was ONLY seconds! 🤣🤣🤣


#cancelfirstviolins​


----------



## Evans

Futchibon said:


> New @Blakus addition to the Performance Samples webpage:





> and private symphonic string and brass sample libraries


Meh!


----------



## Argy Ottas

Evans said:


> Meh!


Believe me, from what I've heard, the private PS libraries and especially the strings that Blakus uses, don't differ that much from Pacific or other upcoming PS libraries.


----------



## filipjonathan




----------



## CT

Argy Ottas said:


> Believe me, from what I've heard, the private PS libraries and especially the strings that Blakus uses, don't differ that much from Pacific or other upcoming PS libraries.


Yeah, I think we're at a point now where _most _fabled private libraries are largely being outdone by what's commercially available.


----------



## muziksculp

*March 24th *


----------



## Noeticus

Yeah... but what happens on the 24th?


----------



## muziksculp

Noeticus said:


> Yeah... but what happens on the 24th?


Many wallets on this forum will be aching


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> Many wallets on this forum will be aching


449+99+99? Or in English: is the Sculp positively convinced some woods and percussion instruments will drop as well?

Or are we talking “just” 449? What say you Nostrasculptus?


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> 449+99+99? Or in English: is the Sculp positively convinced some woods and percussion instruments will drop as well?
> 
> Or are we talking “just” 449? What say you Nostrasculptus?


Hehe.. well, Nostrasculptus thinks the total damage on March 24th will be $449. I wish there was a Sample Library Insurance Company to cover us, when our expectations are not met.


----------



## Zanshin

muziksculp said:


> Hehe.. well, Nostrasculptus thinks the total damage on March 24th will be $449. I wish there was a Sample Library Insurance Company to cover us, when our expectations are not met.


My bet is strings and perc first


----------



## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


> My bet is strings and perc first


The Perc. is not a priority for me. But Strings are. I think you know that already.


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> The Perc. is not a priority for me. But Strings are. I think you know that already.


Thanks for clarifying. Have you heard Spitfire is working on a modular version of Abbey Road One?


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Thanks for clarifying. Have you heard Spitfire is working on a modular version of Abbey Road One?


Yup, and Nostrasculptus predicts it's going to sound Super Awesome


----------



## Simon Lee

muziksculp said:


> Hehe.. well, Nostrasculptus thinks the total damage on March 24th will be $449. I wish there was a Sample Library Insurance Company to cover us, when our expectations are not met.


Let’s not forget the V.A.T.


----------



## Noeticus

Pacific will be a REAL game changer... get it?

Hahhahahahhaha


----------



## Instrugramm

Now this one will probably hurt my wallet as well... just as I was about to get Chorus.


----------



## muziksculp

BasariStudios said:


> I tried now, unfortunately is the same, maybe worse,
> it is totally useless for me:


Hi @BasariStudios 

I will be posting some audio clips later today showing how the Jaeger Legato Strings sound after applying the PixelPoet Edit on them, compared to the stock Legato patches. You might be interested in checking them out. I will also be posting a video tutorial showing how I did these edits on both Jaeger Legato Strings, and Areia Legato Strings. 

Here is the link to my thread about the PixelPoet trick. 

https://vi-control.net/community/th...to-transitions-a-short-video-tutorial.121724/

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## CT

All right let's not jump to conclusions about what happens on the 24th! Hasn't muziksculp had his hopes dashed enough waiting for the AR mid-high legato strings?


----------



## muziksculp

Michaelt said:


> Hasn't muziksculp had his hopes dashed enough waiting for the AR mid-high legato strings?


Yes, he has. That's why he is waiting for the arrival of AR Modular Orchestra. 

Oh , and muziksculp will have his hopes dashed again if Jasper decides to release only Pacific Perc. on March 24th.


----------



## muziksculp

My March calendar is marked . Let's see what happens.


----------



## FireGS

muziksculp said:


> My March calendar is marked . Let's see what happens.



You jinxed it.

+1 month. (Hi, @aaronventure !)


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> You jinxed it.
> 
> +1 month. (Hi, Aaron!)


haha.. wrong thread. Aaron is not here.


----------



## soulofsound

muziksculp said:


> *March 24th *


For real?


----------



## clonewar

muziksculp said:


> My March calendar is marked . Let's see what happens.


And what date can I mark on my calendar for your walkthrough? 3/25?


----------



## filipjonathan

Actually guys I think the first two words in the picture say solo violin 🤔


----------



## muziksculp

filipjonathan said:


> Actually guys I think the first two words in the picture say solo violin 🤔


Damn... Now I see it. 

So, I guess that means no Pacific Strings on the 24th, I will be erasing it from my Calendar  and feel depressed until it is released.


----------



## Casiquire

It absolutely says "Solo String", and maybe Leaders after that? 

However.......those instruments are free for people who buy Pacific during the intro period. I suppose he *could* make some system where you can enter a discount code when Pacific drops, but that feels like effort and confusion. And just because that's what it says in the marketing picture, doesn't mean that's all that's dropping on the 24th, or that anything is released that day in the first place. I wouldn't lose all hope just yet. We can wait patiently for a few days lol


----------



## muziksculp

This thread was posted on April 23rd, 2021.  The waiting continues. 

We aren't too far from a 1 Year wait. Talk about patience


----------



## Tinesaeriel

April 24th, actually

I should know.  

Well, you know what they say: Good things come to those who wait!


----------



## muziksculp

The Solo Violin Pic is now on their website. A bit more shown in this image.


----------



## BasariStudios

doctoremmet said:


> 449+99+99?


Is that the number of Instruments in the Section.


----------



## BasariStudios

muziksculp said:


> Hi @BasariStudios
> 
> I will be posting some audio clips later today showing how the Jaeger Legato Strings sound after applying the PixelPoet Edit on them, compared to the stock Legato patches. You might be interested in checking them out. I will also be posting a video tutorial showing how I did these edits on both Jaeger Legato Strings, and Areia Legato Strings.
> 
> Here is the link to my thread about the PixelPoet trick.
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/th...to-transitions-a-short-video-tutorial.121724/
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


Thanks, will check it out. I am actually very good at scripting and editing in Kontakt and can Apply it my self but the problem is of version 6 i have only the Player, i have full Kontakt 5.


----------



## doctoremmet

BasariStudios said:


> Is that the number of Instruments in the Section.


Yes. Jasper went and pulled an HZ Strings. No second violins though. So complete and utter rubbish


----------



## BasariStudios

doctoremmet said:


> Yes. Jasper went and pulled an HZ Strings. No second violins though. So complete and utter rubbish


Well if he added the 2nd Violins it would end up 666 Voices.


----------



## doctoremmet

No no. That’s the third secret project he does next to Pacific and Voyage. Iron Maiden Strings. You mix them all up.


----------



## jbuhler

doctoremmet said:


> Yes. Jasper went and pulled an HZ Strings. No second violins though. So complete and utter rubbish


No one is saying rubbish of course, and I know you are being jokey here. But it is interesting to me where people draw the line in terms of credibility, what compromises people are willing to accept and under what conditions. So I greatly miss not having second violins in libraries that don’t have them but think nothing of using the same clarinet VI, say, as its own second. And I don’t seek out libraries with recorded divisi even though I write lots of divisi and I’d much prefer seconds to recorded sordino. So no consistency there for me at all.


----------



## doctoremmet

In this case I was merely joking. I totally get why second violins may be important to people like yourself Jim. No disrespect. My jokes are getting (even) more dadjoke-like, I’m getting old.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

No second violins?? What do you mean, no second violins!


----------



## BasariStudios

doctoremmet said:


> In this case I was merely joking. I totally get why second violins may be important to people like yourself Jim. No disrespect. My jokes are getting (even) more dadjoke-like, I’m getting old.


The moment you mentioned Iron Maiden i stopped believing you are joking.


----------



## Noeticus

Wait a minute.... why no 3rd Violin section? 

🍷🍷🍷


----------



## jbuhler

doctoremmet said:


> In this case I was merely joking. I totally get why second violins may be important to people like yourself Jim. No disrespect. My jokes are getting (even) more dadjoke-like, I’m getting old.


Being a dad jokester myself, It was a good dad joke! But it also offered an opportunity to clarify.

I do find it fascinating where these lines of credibility get drawn and that we all invest so much in them. I use ensemble strings all the time and yet seconds still matter to me. I don’t much worry about divisi sections but seconds matter to me. It’s admittedly weird. 

Yeah, I should just get over it and let Pacific be what it is. But I can’t help thinking it is something of a missed opportunity (and I do very much recognize that seconds are a 25% increase in the labor).


----------



## jamwerks

Just speculation here, but I wouldn't be surprised if, should Pacifica turn-out to be a big seller, he went back and immediately did Violin II's!


----------



## jbuhler

jamwerks said:


> Just speculation here, but I wouldn't be surprised if, should Pacifica turn-out to be a big seller, he went back and immediately did Violin II's!


That’s my secret hope!


----------



## Casiquire

jbuhler said:


> Being a dad jokester myself, It was a good dad joke! But it also offered an opportunity to clarify.
> 
> I do find it fascinating where these lines of credibility get drawn and that we all invest so much in them. I use ensemble strings all the time and yet seconds still matter to me. I don’t much worry about divisi sections but seconds matter to me. It’s admittedly weird.
> 
> Yeah, I should just get over it and let Pacific be what it is. But I can’t help thinking it is something of a missed opportunity (and I do very much recognize that seconds are a 25% increase in the labor).


I don't think it's that weird. You're using tools built for purpose. If you need a full ensemble, you grab a full ensemble. If you need a standard string section, you grab...Pacific? It feels weird because a standard string section has second violins in it. It feels less like the "right tool at the right time" if you have to make alterations to it just to use it for the kind of writing it's allegedly built for.


----------



## Zanshin

Casiquire said:


> I don't think it's that weird. You're using tools built for purpose. If you need a full ensemble, you grab a full ensemble. If you need a standard string section, you grab...Pacific? It feels weird because a standard string section has second violins in it. It feels less like the "right tool at the right time" if you have to make alterations to it just to use it for the kind of writing it's allegedly built for.


I guess you and @jbuhler are purists 

The specs for Pacific Strings have been out a while, I get being disappointed, but if a product doesn't meet your requirements why wouldn't you move on? To me it's like people who used go into every VSL thread and complain about dongles.


----------



## Casiquire

Zanshin said:


> I guess you and @jbuhler are purists
> 
> The specs for Pacific Strings have been out a while, I get being disappointed, but if a product doesn't meet your requirements why wouldn't you move on? To me it's like people who used go into every VSL thread and complain about dongles.


Fair enough. I'm actually not unlikely to pick Pacific up, for what it's worth. But you're singling out one side of a cyclical conversation that takes two sides to continue this long 😉


----------



## doctoremmet

Zanshin said:


> I guess you and @jbuhler are purists
> 
> The specs for Pacific Strings have been out a while, I get being disappointed, but if a product doesn't meet your requirements why wouldn't you move on? To me it's like people who used go into every VSL thread and complain about dongles.


Same here. Except Jim and Casiquire ARE great fellow forum members whose posts and contributions are consistently great, helpful, well informed and polite, so they’re on my “tolerate second violin complaints list”, lol!


----------



## Zanshin

doctoremmet said:


> Same here. Except Jim and Casiquire ARE great fellow forum members whose posts and contributions are consistently great, helpful, well informed and polite, so they’re on my “tolerate second violin complaints list”, lol!


I agree with that that statement. Both are level headed usually (like in the OT death spirals).



Casiquire said:


> Fair enough. I'm actually not unlikely to pick Pacific up, for what it's worth. But you're singling out one side of a cyclical conversation that takes two sides to continue this long 😉



One side is a bit killjoy though .


----------



## Casiquire

Zanshin said:


> One side is a bit killjoy though .


Is...is that not what I'm famous for?


----------



## jbuhler

Zanshin said:


> I guess you and @jbuhler are purists
> 
> The specs for Pacific Strings have been out a while, I get being disappointed, but if a product doesn't meet your requirements why wouldn't you move on? To me it's like people who used go into every VSL thread and complain about dongles.


Not a purist by any stretch. But more because the individual sections of Pacific do sound extremely compelling, and I've now had some experience dealing with Vista where I very much miss not having seconds. I'm also likely to pick up Pacific even without seconds but I know that the lack of seconds is something I'm going to have to work around. Or decide that when using Pacific I'm going to write for one section of violins.


----------



## Zanshin

Casiquire said:


> Is...is that not what I'm famous for?


I think you are famous for your legendary GAS control. But maybe that's more of a symptom


----------



## Casiquire

Point taken though, i can back off. I don't feel like i was bringing up the seconds unprompted. So no promises that I'll never mention it again. But i can back off lmao


----------



## Zanshin

Casiquire said:


> Point taken though, i can back off. I don't feel like i was bringing up the seconds unprompted. So no promises that I'll never mention it again. But i can back off lmao


Yeah and I don't want to stifle discussion, but I think at this point we all know the merits of having 2nd violins lol


----------



## Casiquire

Zanshin said:


> Yeah and I don't want to stifle discussion, but I think at this point we all know the merits of having 2nd violins lol


Maybe you do. But about every few days someone comes in here saying "i don't understand why anyone has an issue with the second violins!" And then we come to clarify. And then it all starts again lol


----------



## Zanshin

Casiquire said:


> Maybe you do. But about every few days someone comes in here saying "i don't understand why anyone has an issue with the second violins!" And then we come to clarify. And then it all starts again lol



I think the main complaint used to be no staccato? Oh crap what did I just do.


----------



## Futchibon

I hear Jasper is planning a fully comprehensive library with 2nd violins, divisi and staccatos. Release date tentatively set for 2032 with an intro price of $49,999.

Elon and @muziksculp have already pre ordered!


----------



## Instrugramm

Not having 2nd violins isn't ideal but since most of us use more than one library anyway, there are ways to work around it I suppose. It's not a deal breaker for me, as long as the sound of the library matches the playability of Vista (as indicated by the freebies), I'm in.


----------



## Futchibon

doctoremmet said:


> In this case I was merely joking. I totally get why second violins may be important to people like yourself Jim. No disrespect. My jokes are getting (even) more dadjoke-like, I’m getting old.


It seems some forum members are father along with their dad joke sophistication than others.

I'd make a joke about Strezov choirs but I'm a freyja-d I can't think of one!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Futchibon said:


> It seems some forum mambers are father along with their dad joke sophistication than others.
> 
> I'd make a joke about Strezov choirs but I'm a freyja-d I can't think of one!


I'm too Strez ov to make a joke about Strezov!


----------



## Raphioli

Futchibon said:


> I hear Jasper is planning a fully comprehensive library with 2nd violins, divisi and staccatos. Release date tentatively set for 2032 with an intro price of $49,999.
> 
> Elon and @muziksculp have already pre ordered!


I guess Jasper is going to head off to space via SpaceX and live stream his release event of those releases!
We probably would need to download the library via StarLink.

Who knows, maybe we'll even get a strings library recorded in space (recorded at the ultimate edge of silence )


----------



## Sunny Schramm




----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Sunny Schramm said:


>


You're late to the party, Sunny


----------



## Sunny Schramm

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> You're late to the party, Sunny


ups - sorry ... the fb-story is only 1 hour old 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Baronvonheadless

I heard out of spite, that jasper is removing 1st violins from pacific. 

It’ll be just violas, celli and bass. 

Thanks a lot guys.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Baronvonheadless said:


> I heard out of spite, that jasper is removing 1st violins from pacific.
> 
> It’ll be just violas, celli and bass.
> 
> Thanks a lot guys.


We’ll just do 18 x the Solo Violin w/transposition trick!


----------



## soulofsound

Baronvonheadless said:


> I heard out of spite, that jasper is removing 1st violins from pacific.
> 
> It’ll be just violas, celli and bass.
> 
> Thanks a lot guys.


Like hearing a symphony at age 85.


----------



## Blakus

Michaelt said:


> Yeah, I think we're at a point now where _most _fabled private libraries are largely being outdone by what's commercially available.


----------



## novaburst

Casiquire said:


> if you have to make alterations to it just to use it for the kind of writing it's allegedly built for.


There are many approaches to writing a piece of music,

Some can make metal trash bins sound very good as percussion and have them to be the lead instrument because the music was deliberately desiged around that percussive instrument all be it trash bin.

So you can easily take the approach to write around any instruments and groups of instruments, 

Or you can fit an instrument into your writing that is any instruments that will suite your writing.

Some can make the cello the lead instrument because the piece was designed to fit and make the cello stand out, some the trumpet, horns the list just goes in.

If you really want something to work you will do it, the base guitar is a foundation instrument but many have written for it to be the lead instrument,

The harp, the piano, the organ the Scottish pipes and the flute, 

How much more can you write for 1st violins to be the leading instrument, or even fit them in like a puzzle in your writing,

I am not saying the 2nd violins are less important as is the trumpet and the horns and the guitar but you can write as not to include them and your music will still sound like what you wanted it to

We don't need to have 2nd violins every time we use violins and strngs


----------



## Casiquire

See why the conversation keeps pulling me back into it?!


----------



## jamessy

novaburst said:


> I am not saying the 2nd violins are less important as is the trumpet and the horns and the guitar but you can write as not to include them and your music will still sound like what you wanted it to
> 
> We don't need to have 2nd violins every time we use violins and strngs


I'm not sure if this is intentionally ignoring the other side of the argument, no one's arguing against your point but it's also not really related to theirs. Pacific's intro price is more expensive than BSS not on sale, wanting to not have to limit your writing in any way isn't a wild request


----------



## Zanshin

Casiquire said:


> See why the conversation keeps pulling me back into it?!


I release you from your bonds, go forth and do COMBAT!!!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Casiquire said:


> See why the conversation keeps pulling me back into it?!


I think you just have to use Pacific with trash bins and you won’t even miss the seconds. You will get the music you’ve always dreamed of!


----------



## ansthenia

I still haven't found a good trash bin library that has separately recorded 2nd trash bins.


----------



## Saxer

I actually made a lot of music just for the trash bins.


----------



## muziksculp

If the March 24th release is the Solo Violin, and/or Solo Cello, wouldn't the Performance Samples website have them listed in the upcoming libraries section of their website by now ? 

The only *Pacific* upcoming libraries listed are Pacific Strings, and Perc. , and Voyage with no specifics yet.

So, I wonder, would it be too far fetched that it's going to be *Pacific Strings* that will be released on March 24th ?

I really hope that this will be the scenario. We shall see.


----------



## CT

Blakus said:


>


----------



## novaburst

i can see the funny side,


----------



## muziksculp

So... Tomorrow ?


----------



## CT

Tomorrow will be a Thursday and is indeed a day which will happen (I think).


----------



## NickDorito

Imagine if he just releases a trailer at 9am tomorrow with no release date


----------



## Futchibon

NickDorito said:


> Imagine if he just releases a trailer at 9am tomorrow with no release date


Could be, the pic has been taken down from the main website....we'll see


----------



## FrozenIcicle

muziksculp said:


> So... Tomorrow ?


Dude, you need to go outside and chill about when sample libraries will be released or what's coming in the future. They will come


----------



## NickDorito

FrozenIcicle said:


> Dude, you need to go outside and chill about when sample libraries will be released or what's coming in the future. They will come


It’s cold outside bro


----------



## muziksculp

FrozenIcicle said:


> Dude, you need to go outside and chill about when sample libraries will be released or what's coming in the future. They will come


Dude, you need to get a bit more excited about upcoming string libraries


----------



## Instrugramm

Yeah, I really hope it's gonna be released today.


----------



## AMBi

I’ve been trying my best to be blissfully ignorant about anything regarding Pacific since I can’t afford to be tempted by it..but then I made the mistake of listening to the First Chairs demo and I’m so happy they’re being sold separately as well since they sound gorgeous!

Hoping they’re in the <$200~ range


----------



## muziksculp

*9:00 AM



 *


----------



## jazzman7




----------



## Futchibon

9am is 3am Aussie time


----------



## Casiquire

Which time zone? Better be Pacific


----------



## Noeticus

Noon EST then.


----------



## Zanshin

Futchibon said:


> 9am is 3am Aussie time


Artists must suffer for their craft!


----------



## holywilly

9am is 12am in CST, not too bad, I’ll survive.


----------



## NickDorito

FML


----------



## Pougrivioure

NickDorito said:


> Imagine if he just releases a trailer at 9am tomorrow with no release date


WELL.


----------



## timaza




----------



## Saxer

One minute video? That's it?


----------



## LordBasw

Well.... the freebie sounds pretty nice.....


----------



## Stevie

Saxer said:


> One minute video? That's it?


My thoughts exactly...


----------



## Instrugramm

Damn...  (Nice freebie of course but...well...)


----------



## muziksculp

https://www.performancesamples.com/soloviolinlegato/


----------



## Stevie

wha?

*Solo Violin Legato* is an expressive vibrato solo violin patch, featuring bow-change legato. This was released as a freebie early on in Performance Samples’ history, eventually discontinued, and then re-introduced in March 2022.


----------



## NickDorito

Didn't this come out... years ago...


----------



## muziksculp

Sadly, it look like no Pacific Strings Release today


----------



## Stevie

I feel seriously rickrolled... with a violin


----------



## muziksculp

filipjonathan said:


> How do we access it though?


https://www.performancesamples.com/soloviolinlegato/


----------



## Casiquire

Well nobody saw that coming, and we even read the words "solo Violin"

To be fair, a lot of people seemed upset to miss this freebie when it went away and I'm glad they'll get the chance to play with it. I've had it for a while and it's nice!

I think it's a good little gift to tide people over, along with the freebies. He's trying his best y'all!


----------



## Stevie

Well, old wine in new bottles, I would say.
But at least it's a good wine.


----------



## holywilly

I’m wondering this freebie is the ole new wine or taken from Pacific first chair?


----------



## muziksculp

I think this was a big tease. I guess Pacific Strings will be released next century. I'm done waiting for it.


----------



## Casiquire

holywilly said:


> I’m wondering this freebie is the ole new wine or taken from Pacific first chair?


I do believe it's the old one


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> I think this was a big tease. I guess Pacific Strings will be released next century. I'm done waiting for it.


And I’ll return shopping at the Apex.


----------



## zolhof




----------



## Instrugramm

I mean... I already have the old one as well as both Violins of the sea. Good thing I already used my APEX22 code as I now feel like compensating the letdown with something else (and would have jumped for SCS).


----------



## gst98

If anyone was wondering why Jasper no longer wants to talk here I guess you know why now... I swear sometimes this place is unbelievable


----------



## tcb

Jasper just don't want to hurt SF during their Apex sale


----------



## wlinart

It's not what we hoped for (pacific) but also really awesome to give away a solo violin with this quality. So no whining here, downloading it instead


----------



## Instrugramm

gst98 said:


> If anyone was wondering why Jasper no longer wants to talk here I guess you know why now... I swear sometimes this place is unbelievable


Don't be overly dramatic, it's natural for people to share their reactions if a big tease hasn't quite met expectations. Those who read this thread will probably buy Pacific and are big fans of PS libraries. Nobody here is angry, just anxious.

The solo violin is great, no doubt about it.


----------



## Evans

Instrugramm said:


> Don't be overly dramatic, it's natural for people to share their reactions if a big tease hasn't quite met expectations. Those who read this thread will probably buy Pacific and are big fans of PS libraries. Nobody here is angry, just anxious.
> 
> The solo violin is great, no doubt about it.


Yes. While I haven't read all recent pages, I doubt we have people here who are saying they're so disappointed that they'll never buy Performance Samples again or DM'ing Jasper on social channels.

Pacific Strings was teased for release quite some time ago. It's taking more time. Excitement turns into agitation, because negativity naturally fills a void. Right now, there's a void of information on the Strings release.

It's just how things go.


----------



## Eptesicus

Epic troll. 

Massively anticipated new strings release that was due out last year
Posts a string related picture teaser with a release set for a specific time and date

Releases a single articulation freebie that is old and has been available for free for years before...



Well played.


----------



## Zanshin

I’m happy for more freebies personally!

But also back to talking myself out of Pacific haha.


----------



## tcb

Eptesicus said:


> Epic troll.
> 
> Massively anticipated new strings release that was due out last year
> Posts a string related picture teaser with a release set for a specific time and date
> 
> Releases a single articulation freebie that is old and has been available for free for years before...
> 
> 
> 
> Well played.


I did't know why they discontinued the great violin freebie until..today


----------



## muziksculp

tcb said:


> I did't know why they discontinued the great violin freebie until..today


So, they Can release it again today, instead of Pacific Symphonic Strings.


----------



## tcb

muziksculp said:


> So, they Can release it again today.


It should be released again at April 1 I think


----------



## muziksculp

tcb said:


> It should be released again at April 1 I think


Yup. That would have been a perfect release day.


----------



## Casiquire

tcb said:


> I did't know why they discontinued the great violin freebie until..today


Jasper has spent the last ten years planning this one moment


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> Jasper has spent the last ten years planning this one moment


But he should have planned for an April 1st. release


----------



## gst98

Instrugramm said:


> Don't be overly dramatic, it's natural for people to share their reactions if a big tease hasn't quite met expectations. Those who read this thread will probably buy Pacific and are big fans of PS libraries. Nobody here is angry, just anxious.
> 
> The solo violin is great, no doubt about it.


The last two pages have been pretty ungrateful and overdramatic if you ask me, especially given that no one should have thought this was the release given the title of the video + that the solos are only just in alpha stage + he just moved. Clearly, it's some time away.

In the meantime, he's re-released what I think is probably the best violin legato available for free and there's barely a thank you. Yes, its a re-release, but most people here didn't even know of performance samples during the period it was available.


----------



## CT

So it's a subscription?


----------



## AMBi

Pretty happy to finally have the fabled Solo Violin Freebie™ and it's definitely more different than Solo Violin A than I thought it was going to be, which is nice.

Solo Violin A is bit gentler and whispier with a more progressive attack to each note.
While the freebie has a more neutral tone but a more abrupt attack and the vibrato comes in instantly so it definitely has it's own flavor compared to Violin A & B

Freebie Violin also has rebowing while Violin A just loops held notes.

Very good freebie!


----------



## Stevie

I think you critical people get it all wrong. Everyone in this thread is happy to throw money at PS!
We just need an opportunity...


----------



## soulofsound

Surely i am happy with the violin but wasn't there a cello?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

No solo second violin? Pfft.


----------



## Casiquire

soulofsound said:


> Surely i am happy with the violin but wasn't there a cello?


Upcoming, i believe


----------



## artomatic

I'm just glad that I still have something to look forward to!


----------



## FireGS

ALittleNightMusic said:


> No solo second violin? Pfft.


THIS IS LITERALLY THE SECOND VIOLIN YOU'VE ALL BEEN ASKING FOR.

ENOUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.


----------



## icecoolpool

Great freebie!

Now, what happens if we got naughty? And we add a second instance and use the transposition trick on it? And then we had the Solos of the Sea violin? And then we double it use the transposition trick on that? So we now have a fake chamber violin legato section.

It couldn´t possibly work, could it?


----------



## Noeticus

Where's the Beef? 

Oh, I mean.... 

Gee, I don't mind waiting.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

So what organ will you guys be selling to buy this library?


----------



## doctoremmet

My soul


----------



## Batrawi

artomatic said:


> I'm just glad that I still have something to look forward to!


I won't buy it so that I keep looking forward to it


----------



## Casiquire

doctoremmet said:


> My soul


Mine is no good and I just used my last spare 😔


----------



## Futchibon

NeonMediaKJT said:


> So what organ will you guys be selling to buy this library?


Do you think it is coincidence that we were born with 2 kidneys but can survive with just one?


----------



## Geocranium

NeonMediaKJT said:


> So what organ will you guys be selling to buy this library?


I don't want to part ways with my Hammond but if I must...


----------



## Noeticus

The Dynamics of this library make it a must have library, as no company that I know of offers anything close.


----------



## chapbot

A disappointment for sure, but frankly I'm just concerned with how muziksculp is doing through all this 😭


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> A disappointment for sure, but frankly I'm just concerned with how muziksculp is doing through all this 😭


Haha... Muziksculp has decided to completely ignore Pacific Strings. Why ? 

Because he is totally fed up with waiting for it to show up. 

Maybe it will still be out this century, if we are very lucky, but I don't care anymore. There are other great string libraries that will keep Mr. Sculp very happy.


----------



## CT

Does this mean you'd be comfortable being blacklisted from buying it when it is released?


----------



## soulofsound

muziksculp said:


> Haha... Muziksculp has decided to completely ignore Pacific Strings. Why ?
> 
> Because he is totally fed up with waiting for it to show up.
> 
> Maybe it will still be out this century, if we are very lucky, but I don't care anymore. There are other great string libraries that will keep Mr. Sculp very happy.


Pure denial.


----------



## BasariStudios

NeonMediaKJT said:


> So what organ will you guys be selling to buy this library?


There is no Church around me with an Organ otherwise i'd steal it.


----------



## muziksculp

Michaelt said:


> Does this mean you'd be comfortable being blacklisted from buying it when it is released?


LOL ... but, it's never going to be released


----------



## Fidelity

doctoremmet said:


> My soul


Does this mean you'll be doing pop music from now on?


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Haha... Muziksculp has decided to completely ignore Pacific Strings. Why ?
> 
> Because he is totally fed up with waiting for it to show up.


----------



## jazzman7

Futchibon said:


> Do you think it is coincidence that we were born with 2 kidneys but can survive with just one?


Seems to be a recurring theme on this thread about how incomplete things would be without a 2nd


----------



## holywilly

Had a great shopping at Apex, and still looking forward the release of Pacific on the next Apex.


----------



## Spid

gst98 said:


> Yes, its a re-release, but most people here didn't even know of performance samples during the period it was available.


I agree. I come pretty late to the game, I’m just a noob when it comes to those libraries and I didn’t know about it when it was first release. So I’m glad it’s available again so I could grab it… I understand it’s maybe not what old users are waiting for, but for new users that’s still a good gift. We can’t always get what we want… otherwise I would be a billionaire with 3 beautiful wives… oh wait, nevermind, wrong forum


----------



## gst98

Spid said:


> I agree. I come pretty late to the game, I’m just a noob when it comes to those libraries and I didn’t know about it when it was first release. So I’m glad it’s available again so I could grab it… I understand it’s maybe not what old users are waiting for, but for new users that’s still a good gift. We can’t always get what we want… otherwise I would be a billionaire with 3 beautiful wives… oh wait, nevermind, wrong forum


yes, I think it's great. Hopefully, his other freebies will make a reappearance too, because there are some amazing gems in there that many other commercial libs have never replaced for me. This is probably those most generous freebie going, on par with his commercial solo violins, but offers something unique to the others.


----------



## MusicalG

I am really looking forward to pacific, the demos sound amazing, I have quite a lot of string libraries and a very bad case of G.A.S. 
The thing I like about Jaspers libraries is he manages to capture human emotion and passion in the samples. Not all companies accomplish this in my humble opinion. 

Times have been hard due to being in a global pandemic, like a lot of you I would like to get my hands on it yesterday, it will be here when it’s here. I cannot wait and without sounding like Paul Thompson…. I am very excited 😂😂


----------



## Raphioli

Just a heads up, since I haven't seen any one mention the new release date, unless I've missed it.

Red circle is especially important to keep in mind.  
(Just so that people won't get upset if it turns in to Q3 )


----------



## Pougrivioure

Raphioli said:


> Just a heads up, since I haven't seen any one mention the new release date, unless I've missed it.
> 
> Red circle is especially important to keep in mind.
> (Just so that people won't get upset if it turns in to Q3 )


When*


----------



## Argy Ottas

Fidelity said:


> Does this mean you'll be doing pop music from now on?


Pop music? I have something better for you and it's called "Corporate Music". Instant soul sale and first class ticket to hell . Tho, that will qualify for Voyage too...


----------



## fan455

Here's a short piece from Phantom of the Opera played with the freebie PS solo violin. Really expressive!

View attachment vln ps.mp3


And a CSS first violins close mic render. I added some exciter effect.

View attachment vln css.mp3


The original pianist performance is here. Really stunning.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Baronvonheadless said:


> Well, while we’re on the topic of 2nd violins. Does anyone have a good YouTube video on the matter? Of how one should write for 2nd violins? Usually I just use them an octave below my 1st violin melody. And do counter point with viola. Is there a better way? Do you write separate Melodies with violin 2 to full effect? Does anyone have a link to a string piece with their favorite implementation that’s not a crowded mix and one could easily hear what’s going on and how it’s implemented?
> 
> Thank u!



A new video, perhaps of some help (but only if you INSIST on caring about 2nd violins):


----------



## Casiquire

Baronvonheadless said:


> Well, while we’re on the topic of 2nd violins. Does anyone have a good YouTube video on the matter? Of how one should write for 2nd violins? Usually I just use them an octave below my 1st violin melody. And do counter point with viola. Is there a better way? Do you write separate Melodies with violin 2 to full effect? Does anyone have a link to a string piece with their favorite implementation that’s not a crowded mix and one could easily hear what’s going on and how it’s implemented?
> 
> Thank u!


There are endless ways of doing this. I don't have a standard, it just depends on the piece and the string figuration might change every couple bars. But you could also use the seconds for high runs, flourishes, and embellishments. Or those fun quadruple stop arpeggios that classical music does all the time yet has never been properly sampled for some reason.

I'm not trying to rehash the whole argument again, but it's worth mentioning that a lot of scores including popular film scores use divisi violins, which means transposing by like a full third...


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> You need to change your wallet.


I'd be willing to make a trade. No take-backsies


----------



## Argy Ottas

ALittleNightMusic said:


> A new video, perhaps of some help (but only if you INSIST on caring about 2nd violins):



Τhere is a misconception that on this thread composers don't use second violins  The truth is we don't care about the lack of second violins because we know that there are ways to fill that gap either with the "blessed" transportation trick or by using different patches from different libraries, ideally from the same developer. That's all :D

EDIT: I forgot to mention that If the second violins are not playing in Unison with the firsts, then things are even more simple. Just load another Violin patch and you can also bring some close mics up (and pan them accordingly) to have the detail that second violins often provide.


----------



## A.Heppelmann

Argy Ottas said:


> Τhere is a misconception that on this thread composers don't use second violins  The truth is we don't care about the lack of second violins because we know that there are ways to fill that gap either with the "blessed" transportation trick or by using different patches from different libraries, ideally from the same developer. That's all :D
> 
> EDIT: I forgot to mention that If the second violins are not playing in Unison with the firsts, then things are even more simple. Just load another Violin patch and you can also bring some close mics up (and pan them accordingly) to have the detail that second violins often provide.


Although I may have been inspired to make this video based on this thread, I didn't mean to suggest that no one here bothers to have a second violin part! I just thought it would make an interesting video topic!


----------



## Evans

Let's fire all those unnecessary violinists and give more power to the real heroes: viola players.


----------



## Argy Ottas

A.Heppelmann said:


> Although I may have been inspired to make this video based on this thread, I didn't mean to suggest that no one here bothers to have a second violin part! I just thought it would make an interesting video topic!


Oh, hey @A.Heppelmann and thanks for your great contribution in making all these very informative videos on your YT channel. I can say I am a big fan :D Μy comment was not directed at you at all.


----------



## A.Heppelmann

Argy Ottas said:


> Oh, hey @A.Heppelmann and thanks for your great contribution in making all these very informative videos on your YT channel. I can say I am a big fan :D Μy comment was not directed at you at all.


No, I know, I just wanted to be clear that I have nothing against a library with no 2nd violin section!


----------



## Zanshin

A.Heppelmann said:


> No, I know, I just wanted to be clear that I have nothing against a library with no 2nd violin section!


Tell us the truth, are you saying that out of fear?


----------



## A.Heppelmann

Zanshin said:


> Tell us the truth, are you saying that out of fear?


Hah! Fear that the second violin section will cease to exist?? Actually one of my favorite orchestral pieces doesn't use any violins! (Dutilleux's Timbres, espace, mouvement)


----------



## Zanshin

A.Heppelmann said:


> Hah! Fear that the second violin section will cease to exist?? Actually one of my favorite orchestral pieces doesn't use any violins! (Dutilleux's Timbres, espace, mouvement)


You sweet summer child...


----------



## Simon Lee

😁Looks like there another freebie on
The way. Anyone else spotted it ?


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## FireGS

Thank god something else to talk about before yet *another* round of 2nd Violins talk.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

The whole library will be free before we know it 😂

…I’m not mad.


----------



## muziksculp

I think the Solo Legato Violin was a re-release of the one he had released a while back, but this upcoming Pacific Solo Cello Legato must be a brand new freebie release, or has he released a solo cello legato earlier ?


----------



## Futchibon

Simon Lee said:


> 😁Looks like there another freebie on
> The way. Anyone else spotted it ?


Where are you guys seeing this?


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Where are you guys seeing this?


Facebook


----------



## Baronvonheadless

There’s like 4 pacific freebies already now including this I think. 

I’m not mad.


----------



## novaburst

Baronvonheadless said:


> There’s like 4 pacific freebies already now including this I think.
> 
> I’m not mad.


its the 2nd violins that are free


----------



## Casiquire

novaburst said:


> its the 2nd violins that are free


A twist worthy of M Night


----------



## TonyZem

doctoremmet said:


> My soul


My Hammond.


----------



## Soundbed

In the future, all second violin parts will be played by AI.


----------



## Argy Ottas

FireGS said:


> Thank god something else to talk about before yet *another* round of 2nd Violins talk.


Oh yeah? Look again...


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Facebook


Are you a FB friend of Jasper? I cant see it on the PS FB page...


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Are you a FB friend of Jasper? I cant see it on the PS FB page...


Yes.


----------



## CT




----------



## FireGS

Michaelt said:


>


@Mods can someone give me a temporary ban-hammer ability? Anyone who says 2nd Violins agai--

*poof* _is banned_


----------



## Simeon

This just in (via Instagram)😎


----------



## holywilly

I hope it isn’t the April’s fool joke.


----------



## muziksculp

holywilly said:


> I hope it isn’t the April’s fool joke.


I heard rumors that Pacific Strings will be released tomorrow.


----------



## Raphioli

Was gone for a while, came back and saw the 2nd violin thing going on again haha

Not sure how many people remember the Voyage poster,
but that *"P.S. Hate Noise ? Run"* will probably change to *"P.S. Looking for 2nd Violins? Run"* at some point


----------



## AndyP

In Germany we say "Niemand will die zweite Geige spielen" - "nobody wants to play second fiddle". Maybe Jasper has German genes.

However, often used in the context of wooing girls.


----------



## Wolf68

I always prefer in samplelibraries the sound of scond violins over the first btw. but well. I understand that there is probably a similar joke-genre to viola-jokes...


----------



## Evans

Wolf68 said:


> I always prefer in samplelibraries the sound of scond violins over the first btw. but well. I understand that there is probably a similar joke-genre to viola-jokes...


I've seen someone describe it as, "We recorded V1 first and learned some things that impacted V2."


----------



## Casiquire

Evans said:


> I've seen someone describe it as, "We recorded V1 first and learned some things that impacted V2."


I feel like recording order is a part of good planning. Do the most popular, easiest heard sections LAST right? So that you can apply all the little road blocks and lessons that come up properly


----------



## SwordComposer

Uh guys?? Looks like its out now...


----------



## Evans

Casiquire said:


> I feel like recording order is a part of good planning. Do the most popular, easiest heard sections LAST right? So that you can apply all the little road blocks and lessons that come up properly


I don't disagree, but the above from me was a summary of a response from a (respected) developer. It happens!


----------



## Casiquire

Evans said:


> I don't disagree, but the above from me was a summary of a response from a (respected) developer. It happens!


I'm sure it does! And it gets complicated in library series where you want to drum up attention by making strings but have the dilemma of possibly delivering something that isn't ready. I recognize the challenge of balancing all of that


----------



## lettucehat

Evans said:


> I don't disagree, but the above from me was a summary of a response from a (respected) developer. It happens!



Actually I would be very curious to know who it was.. and see if I can hear it in their library if I have it.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Another update regarding pacific solo strings (from jaspers Instagram story)


----------



## FireGS

SwordComposer said:


> Uh guys?? Looks like its out now...


Dislike you.

<3


----------



## muziksculp

Is Jasper referring to the older Solo Violin ? that he didn't like it, and the latest freebie is an improved version, not the same one ?


----------



## Getsumen

muziksculp said:


> Is Jasper referring to the older Solo Violin ? that he didn't like it, and the latest freebie is an improved version, not the same one ?


The violin freebie is old, not new


----------



## Raphioli

Niv Schrieber said:


> Another update regarding pacific solo strings (from jaspers Instagram story)


Truly amazing how he just continues to push himself to the limits!


----------



## muziksculp

Getsumen said:


> The violin freebie is old, not new


Ok. so, it's the same one I already have installed. I was double checking if he improved it, or changed something in the last freebie solo Vln he posted recently. 

Thanks.


----------



## muziksculp

The Pacific Solo Cello Alpha Stage demo


----------



## Russell Anderson

well shit


----------



## Pianolando

Yeah, that sounds incredible. I guess Pacific is back on the menu again for me.


----------



## Raphioli

muziksculp said:


> The Pacific Solo Cello Alpha Stage demo



Sounds gorgeous. Its insane that a solo cello of that quality is going to be a freebie...


----------



## Vlzmusic

Pianolando said:


> Yeah, that sounds incredible. I guess Pacific is back on the menu again for me.


Yes, those solos could be a serious factor. I am out of the loop currently - were any specifics announced about this addition to the core library? Which instruments, articulations etc.


----------



## Futchibon




----------



## Francis Bourre

Pianolando said:


> Yeah, that sounds incredible. I guess Pacific is back on the menu again for me.


Not sure, it'll be the freebie, I red there were new recordings, and the freebie would be with the previous ones.
I guess this demo could be based on the new recordings.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Francis Bourre said:


> Not sure, it'll be the freebie, I red there were new recordings, and the freebie would be with the previous ones.
> I guess this demo could be based on the new recordings.


It will be a freebie though it shouldn't.


----------



## Pianolando

Francis Bourre said:


> I guess this demo could be based on the new recordings.



This is my guess. Otherwise he has another cello coming that is a big level up from this one, and I’m not sure that’s probable. Or possible.


----------



## muziksculp

My guess the Pacific Solo Cello (Alpha) demo is of the new Pacific Solo Cello, that will be a freebie if you purchase Pacific Strings in the Intro period of ordering. So, It's not really a freebie.


----------



## Russell Anderson

I think I’ll just buy the solo strings, I can’t handle a whole other string library yet. But that sounds awesome.


----------



## artinro

Hi folks,

Let me clarify what's going on here. Jasper told me he initially intended to have the Pacific solo violin and solo cello legatos as a separate library (purchasable separately) but one that fit seamlessly with the ensembles. In the course of producing the solos however, he decided he wanted to re-record the violin. He figured while he was doing that, he'd also record the solo cello again and do additional articulations for both the violin and cello. The freebie demo you hear above is what was originally going to be the solo cello legato. This one is a pure freebie. The re-record of the violin and the other (newer) solo cello will be purchasable separately, but will also still be free for those who order the ensemble library during the intro period. All of this will fit seamlessly with the ensembles so you're effectively getting two solo cello legatos that work with the ensemble. Hope that clears things up. Here's something directly from Jasper:


----------



## muziksculp

OK, so the Pacific Solo Cello (alpha) demo is of the Free Cello. But he is working on a new Solo Violin and Cello for Pacific that's different, and improved. Interesting.


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if Pacific Symphonic Strings (PSS) are all done, and ready for release ? or they are still being tweaked ? 

Any info/feedback on the status of PSS ? 

PSS is the main focus of this thread. imho. The solos are a distraction, but not enough to distract me from the main focus here.


----------



## CT

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if Pacific Symphonic Strings (PSS) are all done, and ready for release ? or they are still being tweaked ?
> 
> Any info/feedback on the status of PSS ?
> 
> PSS is the main focus of this thread. imho. The solos are a distraction, but not enough to distract me from the main focus here.


Haven't you given up?


----------



## muziksculp

Michaelt said:


> Haven't you given up?


LOL.. I tried very hard to give up waiting for PSS, but failed badly to do so, plus I was encouraged by others not to do so.  So, I'm back waiting for this library to materialize before I'm too old for all this stuff.


----------



## soulofsound

muziksculp said:


> LOL.. I tried very hard to give up waiting for PSS, but failed badly to do so, plus I was encouraged by others not to do so.  So, I'm back waiting for this library to materialize before I'm too old for all this stuff.


Who gets too old for this ... ever?


----------



## jazzman7

Looks like Jasper is going all out to make this a winner. I find all of this very encouraging...tho my wallet is grumbling in the background...but it's always grumbling about something!


----------



## Russell Anderson

jazzman7 said:


> Looks like Jasper is going all out to make this a winner. I find all of this very encouraging...tho my wallet is grumbling in the background...but it's always grumbling about something!


It blows my mind he’s making a string library with AI. The best way to improve rapidly and destroy your sleep schedule? Compete with yourself, but actually try to win. On both sides.

I don’t think his goal is grumbling wallets, anymore. I think he wants to annihilate them


----------



## jazzman7

Russell Anderson said:


> I don’t think his goal is grumbling wallets, anymore. I think he wants to annihilate them


For sure! In my case I could say he's just bouncing the rubble at this point


----------



## Getsumen




----------



## Kony

artinro said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Let me clarify what's going on here. Jasper told me he initially intended to have the Pacific solo violin and solo cello legatos as a separate library (purchasable separately) but one that fit seamlessly with the ensembles. In the course of producing the solos however, he decided he wanted to re-record the violin. He figured while he was doing that, he'd also record the solo cello again and do additional articulations for both the violin and cello. The freebie demo you hear above is what was originally going to be the solo cello legato. This one is a pure freebie. The re-record of the violin and the other (newer) solo cello will be purchasable separately, but will also still be free for those who order the ensemble library during the intro period. All of this will fit seamlessly with the ensembles so you're effectively getting two solo cello legatos that work with the ensemble. Hope that clears things up. Here's something directly from Jasper:


Hey @artinro thanks for this update - much appreciated. On a side note, can we take this to mean Jasper's recovering from his hearing issue - is he okay?


----------



## Futchibon

Getsumen said:


>



The second half of that...whoah!


----------



## Batuer

This thread has been lasted for one year.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Batuer said:


> This thread has been lasted for one year.


----------



## doctoremmet

Batuer said:


> This thread has been lasted for one year.


----------



## tabulius

I tested the Pacific ensemble shorts and cello shorts in this iconic theme. RPG fans definitely recognize where this is from  Enjoy!

Virtual instruments I used:

Brass: Infinite Brass, Cinebrass, Strezov French Horns, Performance Samples Angry Brass solos, Norrland Trumpet, Sample Modeling Trumpet & Trombone

Strings: Performance Samples Pacific Strings demos of ensemble shorts and cello shorts. Performance Samples Vista, Virharmonic Bohemian violin V4.

Percussion: Cinesamples Percussion, Hans Zimmer Percussion, Pacific demo patches of toms and snares.

Woodwinds: Infinite Woodwinds.

Choir: Orchestral Tools Ark1, 8dio/V8P Titan Choir.


----------



## Noeticus

This is the thread that I am monitoring the most for good news!



m


----------



## Pougrivioure

Hey, did you knew that there is no violin 2 in Pacific ? Crazy isn't it ?

🤡


----------



## CT

Big if true.


----------



## jazzman7

No 2nds? You mean I've been hyped up for nothing?!?


----------



## Casiquire

jazzman7 said:


> No 2nds? You mean I've been hyped up for nothing?!?


Are you trying to start riots up in here 😂


----------



## Noeticus

What a crowd!


----------



## Zanshin

We need some excitement around here. Maybe we should summon foot phalanges cutter to battle @Michaelt again?


----------



## CT

He's already long defeated.


----------



## Raphioli

Imagine if they announced 2nd violins being recorded though. 
The pages of this thread would probably double within a week


----------



## jamessy

It could happen


----------



## Soundbed




----------



## tabulius

I was hoping to have 3rd violins.


----------



## Simon Lee

*above the cello patch I see some New Brass 👀*


----------



## ZeeCount

Simon Lee said:


> *above the cello patch I see some New Brass 👀*


It also has the Audio Imperia logo


----------



## jazzman7

I can see how that makes a lot of sense to weld the well developed GUI from AI to Jaspers sample brand. If I didn't already have plenty of Choirs, I might have taken a good close look at the New one they put out


----------



## Raphioli

Simon Lee said:


> *above the cello patch I see some New Brass 👀*


Performance Samples and Audio Imperia wants our wallets for sure...
"Fluid Brass 2 Horns" sounds like it might have legato too!


----------



## doctoremmet

Announced:


----------



## Raphioli

doctoremmet said:


> Announced:



I feel like Performance Samples is getting better and better at teasing us


----------



## Argy Ottas

tabulius said:


> I was hoping to have 3rd violins.


You can always transpose twice


----------



## Futchibon

Very pumped for the free cello patch, the Solos of the Sea are great and I always wished he'd do a cello version...🎻


----------



## Casiquire

I'm guessing that brass patch is from Voyage Brass? I'm assuming Voyage is an all-out AI collaboration.


----------



## pcohen12

Started a Fluid Brass thread here!


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> I'm guessing that brass patch is from Voyage Brass? I'm assuming Voyage is an all-out AI collaboration.


Different hall so I would doubt that tbh


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> Different hall so I would doubt that tbh


What's in a different hall from what?


----------



## doctoremmet

The livestream starts NOW



Maybe more spoilers?


----------



## doctoremmet

Hahaha. The countdown was WAY longer than the teaser. Yep. Ridiculous, lol.


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> The livestream starts NOW
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe more spoilers?



Wow, that was short


----------



## Casiquire

That was...I have no words


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> What's in a different hall from what?


Voyage strings have been recorded (at least partly so far) in Zlin. and the AI-PS strings have been done in Jihlava. I just doubt they would mix halls within a product lineup.

But there is quite a busy lineup forming now. Playable brass ens a2 in Jihlava, full brass in Jihlava (most likely) as well as full brass in Zlin. I wonder what the differentiating factors will be


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> Voyage strings have been recorded (at least partly so far) in Zlin. and the AI-PS strings have been done in Jihlava. I just doubt they would mix halls within a product lineup.
> 
> But there is quite a busy lineup forming now. Playable brass ens a2 in Jihlava, full brass in Jihlava (most likely) as well as full brass in Zlin. I wonder what the differentiating factors will be


Oh interesting, i didn't know we knew both locations.


----------



## Getsumen

doctoremmet said:


> The livestream starts NOW
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe more spoilers?



This has been posted for a while on the instagram by the way. wdym by livestream? was it done that way on YT?


----------



## doctoremmet

Getsumen said:


> This has been posted for a while on the instagram by the way. wdym by livestream? was it done that way on YT?


It was announced on YT yesterday. “Tomorrow 18.00 PM”

So I was there for the livestream. Which literally was 10 seconds. I had seen the trailer / teaser before and figured this was a more elaborate view. It wasn’t.

I feel rickrolled without being rickrolled.


----------



## CT

Casiquire said:


> Oh interesting, i didn't know we knew both locations.


Hmm... I'm not sure we do! Pacific's lovely hall has been discussed, but I don't know where Zlín as the location of Voyage etc. came from....


----------



## doctoremmet

Very interesting to see Zlin mentioned, but I also would love to hear a reliable source for this? No offense… but this is literally the first time I see this?


----------



## dzilizzi

doctoremmet said:


> Very interesting to see Zlin mentioned, but I also would love to hear a reliable source for this? No offense… but this is literally the first time I see this?


If it is recorded at Zlin, that would be great as it should blend well with Sonokinetic's stuff. 

Thinking more for the brass and percussion, as they don't have that yet. Someone else records at Zlin, don't they? I never remember.


----------



## CT

doctoremmet said:


> Very interesting to see Zlin mentioned, but I also would love to hear a reliable source for this? No offense… but this is literally the first time I see this?


I of course do not officially speak for Jasper in any capacity, but I am pretty sure it's a misunderstanding!

The Zlín facility is nice, with two possible recording spaces: the large hall as IR'd by Altiverb/the location of many of Sonokinetic's recordings, and the "malý sál," basically a chamber music hall. Neither has anything to do with Voyage, though.


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

dzilizzi said:


> If it is recorded at Zlin, that would be great as it should blend well with Sonokinetic's stuff.
> 
> Thinking more for the brass and percussion, as they don't have that yet. Someone else records at Zlin, don't they? I never remember.


8Dio Century Series


----------



## gst98

Okay now I’m confused because I had always been under the impression that Oceania was recorded at Zlin.

Although JB says Voyage is the Oceania room, he also says it’s smaller than the Pacific hall, meaning there is no way it’s Zlin.

sorry for the adding the confusion all!

but in my googling I also found a comment from AI from a month ago where they confirmed voyage is a 100% PS project.


----------



## doctoremmet

Okay. So no Zlin then. Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> Okay now I’m confused because I had always been under the impression that Oceania was recorded at Zlin.
> 
> Although JB says Voyage is the Oceania room, he also says it’s smaller than the Pacific hall, meaning there is no way it’s Zlin.
> 
> sorry for the adding the confusion all!
> 
> but in my googling I also found a comment from AI from a month ago where they confirmed voyage is a 100% PS project.


Ah so it's not Zlin but it's also not a collaboration. I worry about Jasper stretching himself so thin. I hope he is taking good care of himself too.


----------



## doctoremmet

Manuel Stumpf said:


> 8Dio Century Series


… and Majestica / 8W / Lacrimosa / Emperium choir / AGE / Extreme Ensembles / Legion Series. Quite a few 8Dio libraries were recorded there


----------



## CT

doctoremmet said:


> … and Majestica / 8W / Lacrimosa / Emperium choir / AGE / Extreme Ensembles / Legion Series. Quite a few 8Dio libraries were recorded there


Oh interesting, didn't know some of those older ones were. Is that documented anywhere or are there session photos or something? Wonder if it was the big hall or the small one, as the Century stuff always struck me as being fairly dry.


----------



## gst98

Casiquire said:


> Ah so it's not Zlin but it's also not a collaboration. I worry about Jasper stretching himself so thin. I hope he is taking good care of himself too.


Yeah, he also mentions on the page he is set on voyage being a complete orchestra. So all 3 will be on the cards at this point. Hopefully each will have a USP with not too much overlap. 

and yes I really hope he’s doing better now.


----------



## gst98

Michaelt said:


> Oh interesting, didn't know some of those older ones were. Is that documented anywhere or are there session photos or something? Wonder if it was the big hall or the small one, as the Century stuff always struck me as being fairly dry.


The mix mics that the century demos have rely a lot on the quite unflattering close mics which are very dry and extremely close. But the tree and wide mics are very ambient and far back. There’s a great depth too them. For me the mix A that is most often used in demos does a real disservice to the samples

I only have the brass but imagine the strings are similar


----------



## dzilizzi

Manuel Stumpf said:


> 8Dio Century Series


I thought it was them, but then thought, maybe not.


----------



## Casiquire

gst98 said:


> The mix mics that the century demos have rely a lot on the quite unflattering close mics which are very dry and extremely close. But the tree and wide mics are very ambient and far back. There’s a great depth too them. For me the mix A that is most often used in demos does a real disservice to the samples
> 
> I only have the brass but imagine the strings are similar


That's some good info! The brass sounded wonderful to me but the strings sounded thin and not too interesting. I wonder how much of that is due just to the mic mixes as you've mentioned


----------



## doctoremmet

Michaelt said:


> Oh interesting, didn't know some of those older ones were. Is that documented anywhere or are there session photos or something? Wonder if it was the big hall or the small one, as the Century stuff always struck me as being fairly dry.




That’s the large hall:


----------



## doctoremmet

Casiquire said:


> That's some good info! The brass sounded wonderful to me but the strings sounded thin and not too interesting. I wonder how much of that is due just to the mic mixes as you've mentioned


Most all of it. Mix B is better and your own mic mix will do wonders. The small section in that hall can sound pretty sweet to be honest.


----------



## soulofsound

Casiquire said:


> That's some good info! The brass sounded wonderful to me but the strings sounded thin and not too interesting. I wonder how much of that is due just to the mic mixes as you've mentioned


The biggest guitar sounds come out of the smallest amplifiers. So maybe 66 of the same strings aren't that intelligent anyway. Idk.


----------



## doctoremmet

soulofsound said:


> The biggest guitar sounds come out of the smallest amplifiers. So maybe 66 of the same strings aren't that intelligent anyway. Idk.


True. Though I think Casiquire was talking about Century Strings which has a very small string band ensemble size, nowhere near 66


----------



## Simon Lee

*anyone see and hear this demo yesterday ? *


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Anyone else getting crashes with Cubase when using the Performance Samples Freebies?


----------



## Noeticus

I hereby wish that this thread should not be so quiet.

🪄🧙‍♂️🪄🧙‍♂️🪄


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## CT

How about a free legato cello which I think is better than many other expensive cello legatos, around the end of the week?


----------



## jbuhler

Michaelt said:


> How about a free legato cello which I think is better than many other expensive cello legatos, around the end of the week?


Sounds like a good way to celebrate the weekend.


----------



## jazzman7

Michaelt said:


> How about a free legato cello which I think is better than many other expensive cello legatos, around the end of the week?


I like the sound of that!


----------



## muziksculp

Michaelt said:


> How about a free legato cello which I think is better than many other expensive cello legatos, around the end of the week?


Sure, that would be very nice. But ...


----------



## Pougrivioure

Noeticus said:


> I hereby wish that this thread should not be so quiet.
> 
> 🪄🧙‍♂️🪄🧙‍♂️🪄


The magic formula for this is "Violin 2".


----------



## Noeticus

Pougrivioure said:


> The magic formula for this is "Violin 2".


I don't get it.... does that mean the Violins are numbered?

Hold on, you mean there's more than one violin? Wow, that's great!


----------



## dzilizzi

Noeticus said:


> I don't get it.... does that mean the Violins are numbered?
> 
> Hold on, you mean there's more than one violin? Wow, that's great!


I think there are actually 3.


----------



## holywilly

I’m building a new template and I reserved channels just for Pacific. Still looking forward to this release.


----------



## Raphioli

holywilly said:


> I’m building a new template and I reserved channels just for Pacific. Still looking forward to this release.


Thats exactly what I was doing as well.
That shorts freebie was pretty helpful !


----------



## holywilly

I’ve been using the freebies in my production, they are truly awesome. The upcoming free solo cello is a gonna be a killer!

If there’s a pre-order for Pacific, I’m in for sure!


----------



## muziksculp

@holywilly ,

Hehe.. Don't get too excited, I very much doubt that Pacific Strings will be released this year, or even next year. I think it's just a myth strings library, freebies are all we are going to get.


----------



## holywilly

Maybe eventually we will get Pacific for free.


----------



## doctoremmet

With the current inflation rates, when the announced intro pricing remains in place, things will be practically free next year


----------



## doctoremmet

SoundCloud - Hear the world’s sounds


Explore the largest community of artists, bands, podcasters and creators of music & audio




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## doctoremmet

Pacific Solo Strings - Cello Freebie (orig. rec.) - Pre-Alpha Demo


www.performancesamples.com




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


----------



## Hendrixon

Man that sounds lovely...............


----------



## LamaRose

doctoremmet said:


> SoundCloud - Hear the world’s sounds
> 
> 
> Explore the largest community of artists, bands, podcasters and creators of music & audio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soundcloud.app.goo.gl


Is that a new violin in the contextual demo?


----------



## Futchibon

New solo motion trems from Jasper's Facebook page:


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> New solo motion trems from Jasper's Facebook page:


Are these part of the Pacific Strings Solo Instruments or another Freebie ?


----------



## artinro

Here is the vid of these motion trems from Jasper's FB page. Seeing how he performed them gives a lot of context for how this patch will behave:


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> Are these part of the Pacific Strings Solo Instruments or another Freebie ?


These are from the re-recorded pacific solo strings, not the forthcoming freebie which is the cello legato from the original recordings


----------



## wunderflo

artinro said:


> These are from the re-recorded pacific solo strings, not the forthcoming freebie which is the cello legato from the original recordings


like everything he posts, it sounds fantastic. That's why we all want it to be released and are ready to pay a "boutique" price tag for it. However, I find it a bit disappointing or frustrating, and simply cannot really understand it, why he keeps postponing it to work on another addition, and another, and another and so on. Why does he feel so insecure about this product? Imo, the pre-alpha demos from a year ago already sounded amazing. Sure, there might have been problems that he avoided in the demos, that still needed to be fixed. It's indeed very honorable to release a finished product that doesn't require a ton of patches and bug-fixes. And it's also very generous to create further patches that he plans to gift to the buyers during the intro sale period. But it's not like it wouldn't be possible to release patches or free additions AFTER the release of the main library. In fact, it has many advantages to not keep perfecting a product endlessly before its release, because only the feedback of the clients can tell you who you are perfecting it for and what "perfection" means to them. So yeah, I kinda would like to boost his confidence (maybe through pre-ordering if that was possible?), and let him know that it's okay to release it as it is - and update it or create additional content for it afterwards. It's also legit to announce the free release of additional content some when in the future to boost sales. Even the "perfectionists" of VSL are doing that. I hope this doesn't sound too negative or ungrateful - it comes from the perspective of a fan who just doesn't get the strategy behind it.


----------



## chapbot

wunderflo said:


> like everything he posts, it sounds fantastic. That's why we all want it to be released and are ready to pay a "boutique" price tag for it. However, I find it a bit disappointing or frustrating, and simply cannot really understand it, why he keeps postponing it to work on another addition, and another, and another and so on. Why does he feel so insecure about this product? Imo, the pre-alpha demos from a year ago already sounded amazing. Sure, there might have been problems that he avoided in the demos, that still needed to be fixed. It's indeed very honorable to release a finished product that doesn't require a ton of patches and bug-fixes. And it's also very generous to create further patches that he plans to gift to the buyers during the intro sale period. But it's not like it wouldn't be possible to release patches or free additions AFTER the release of the main library. In fact, it has many advantages to not keep perfecting a product endlessly before its release, because only the feedback of the clients can tell you who you are perfecting it for and what "perfection" means to them. So yeah, I kinda would like to boost his confidence (maybe through pre-ordering if that was possible?), and let him know that it's okay to release it as it is - and update it or create additional content for it afterwards. It's also legit to announce the free release of additional content some when in the future to boost sales. Even the "perfectionists" of VSL are doing that. I hope this doesn't sound too negative or ungrateful - it comes from the perspective of a fan who just doesn't get the strategy behind it.


Great points... and the longer he prolongs the release the more interest rates go up, the economy goes down and people get broker and broker. Someone who wouldn't hesitate to buy this in January might very well have second thoughts now.


----------



## Evans

chapbot said:


> Great points... and the longer he prolongs the release the more interest rates go up, the economy goes down and people get broker and broker. Someone who wouldn't hesitate to buy this in January might very well have second thoughts now.


I've run out of drive space. I have also run out of ports for a new drive. So any new content means a new drive and a hub.


----------



## wunderflo

chapbot said:


> Great points... and the longer he prolongs the release the more interest rates go up, the economy goes down and people get broker and broker. Someone who wouldn't hesitate to buy this in January might very well have second thoughts now.


absolutely. When I first heard about it, I was worried about the pandemic and thought, "yeah, maybe not the best time to release an expensive library". Meanwhile, I'm worried about the pandemic AND about a nuclear world war, lol. And we all should be worried about the climate crisis, too. So please release it, before I get killed by a virus, hit by a nuclear bomb, die from heat or drown in a flood. I learned, now is always the best time.


----------



## Raphioli

chapbot said:


> Great points... and the longer he prolongs the release the more interest rates go up, the economy goes down and people get broker and broker. Someone who wouldn't hesitate to buy this in January might very well have second thoughts now.


The dollar is just getting stronger and stronger. And doesn't seem like its going to stop any time soon.(at least by looking at the DXY chart. *NFA*)
Which means, (talking exchange rates) if you're not in the U.S, the price of it might be climbing like crazy depending on which country you live in. (it can apply to anything of course)

I hope it doesn't get that worse by the time its released. Because that new solo violin demo sounds soooo good!


----------



## LamaRose

Raphioli said:


> The dollar is just getting stronger and stronger. And doesn't seem like its going to stop any time soon.(at least by looking at the DXY chart. *NFA*)
> Which means, (talking exchange rates) if you're not in the U.S, the price of it might be climbing like crazy depending on which country you live in. (it can apply to anything of course)
> 
> I hope it doesn't get that worse by the time its released. Because that new solo violin demo sounds soooo good!


Not against the Rouble, lol. I'm from the U.S. Our currency is backed by BS and threats. Love the USD at your own risk... I avoid it like the bubonic plague.


----------



## jazzman7

I'm willing to wait until Jasper has it where he wants it. He certainly has reasons for the delay we could only guess at. This impatience reminds of the kids in the back seat complaining on a long trip. In other words, "We'll get there when we get there!"


----------



## lettucehat

Apparently releasing a library before the developer is happy with it is so out of the ordinary now that they're being asked to explain it..? Seems like that should be the normal approach.


----------



## CT

Hah, and the suggestion that it's totally ok to just get something out and fix/add over time. I'm pretty sure I see developers crucified for that every day! Damned if you do....


----------



## jazzman7

Michaelt said:


> Hah, and the suggestion that it's totally ok to just get something out and fix/add over time. I'm pretty sure I see developers crucified for that every day! Damned if you do....


Exactly! Half a grand for Put it out now...We'll fix it later? No thanks


----------



## muziksculp

jazzman7 said:


> I'm willing to wait until Jasper has it where he wants it. He certainly has reasons for the delay we could only guess at. This impatience reminds of the kids in the back seat complaining on a long trip. In other words, "We'll get there when we get there!"


----------



## jazzman7

muziksculp said:


>


Dammit! OK, I admit it. That was me in the back seat!


----------



## Saxer

I think Jasper is extremely fast in creating things. Other companies have years of planning and making concepts and marketing strategies before a single note is recorded. The only difference is that we are able to follow his process from time to time.

Instead of complaining that we don't get everything we want we should be glad that we don't get everything we deserve. (Dieter Hildebrandt, German cabaret artist)


----------



## Batuer

This Pacific Strings is just way too long to wait for. 
VSL released a full orchestral library - Synchron Prime Edition for € 445. I would say that's another good option.


----------



## lettucehat

And plenty of string libraries existed before Synchron Prime came out, I don’t even get the point of the comparison. Does everyone have $500 they have to spend on a string library before some sort of deadline approaches? Most people aren’t waiting on Pacific, it’ll exist and then they’ll buy it if they want to, lol. I’m sure he’s missing out on some dollars but so is every library in development.


----------



## CT

Saxer said:


> I think Jasper is extremely fast in creating things. Other companies have years of planning and making concepts and marketing strategies before a single note is recorded. The only difference is that we are able to follow his process from time to time.
> 
> Instead of complaining that we don't get everything we want we should be glad that we don't get everything we deserve. (Dieter Hildebrandt, German cabaret artist)


Definitely. The path from "idea" to the "library in assembly" stage that Jasper takes is _really_ fast, even if you don't compare it to how other developers operate. This one is on the longer side, and having a window into the process probably contributes to the feeling, yeah. Even so, it is probably more like a normal development period relative to everyone else!


----------



## jazzman7

Batuer said:


> This Pacific Strings is just way too long to wait for.
> VSL released a full orchestral library - Synchron Prime Edition for € 445. I would say that's another good option.


Love the Synchron Player, but the audio Demo's for Prime are pretty rough sounding. The last time I had samples sounding like that, they came in a wooden box. Actually Giga sounded better in places. Not sure how they managed to mangle those demos so bad. I have a hard time believing VSL stuff could sound...well...like that! They have such a good rep here and the pricing is def in boutique territory. Something went wrong


----------



## JGRaynaud

jazzman7 said:


> Love the Synchron Player, but the audio Demo's for Prime are pretty rough sounding. The last time I had samples sounding like that, they came in a wooden box. Actually Giga sounded better in places. Not sure how they managed to mangle those demos so bad. I have a hard time believing VSL stuff could sound...well...like that! They have such a good rep here and the pricing is def in boutique territory. Something went wrong


As I did a demo for Synchron Prime, I can explain a bit the process. 

VSL aims for a sound as out of the box as possible. So : no external reverb, EQ as less as possible or no EQ, etc. Also : no external plugins to VSL. Basically the ideal (and what is recommended) is to make a demo without processing and if you want reverb or stuff like that, you do it directly in the Synchron Player with the native plugins and try to do it as less as possible. Same for the mastering : I used the Vienna Suite Pro as they requested it. So the result you hear is pretty much out of the box and untouched. This is pretty different from a mix where you would mix everything the way you want and add as much processing as you want with your favorite plugins, with many EQ, etc.


----------



## Evans

It's not an uncommon comment here about Synchron products in general, though people have of course worked wonders with them. Perhaps someone could make class out of getting the most out of something like Prime or provide a base template as we've seen with, say, the Cinematic Studio Series.


----------



## axb312

Would rather wait till Jasper has a somewhat finished product here, than wait 6 months for Pacific 2.0 to come out with these improvements....


----------



## Hendrixon

axb312 said:


> Would rather wait till Jasper has a somewhat finished product here, than wait 6 months for Pacific 2.0 to come out with these improvements....


More like 2-3 years for next revision.
And Jasper almost never does updates.

Honestly? I think there should be some form of tax on computer/smartphone/tablet keyboard access for people with ocd and other forms of anxiety issues


----------



## axb312

Hendrixon said:


> More like 2-3 years for next revision.
> And Jasper almost never does updates.
> 
> Honestly? I think there should be some form of tax on computer/smartphone/tablet keyboard access for people with ocd and other forms of anxiety issues


Jasper as such does not seem to do revisions. From what I understand, he keeps experimenting with sampling techniques and makes his customers his guinea pigs.

For those who can afford this, this is great.

But looking at the short gaps from Con Moto to Vista to the announcement of Voyage and Pacific, I would rather all necessary experimentation be done now itself and we get a finished product which is unlikely to have an equivalent from the same company for 3-4 years at least.


----------



## Vlzmusic

axb312 said:


> Jasper as such does not seem to do revisions. From what I understand, he keeps experimenting with sampling techniques and makes his customers his guinea pigs.
> 
> For those who can afford this, this is great.
> 
> But looking at the short gaps from Con Moto to Vista to the announcement of Voyage and Pacific, I would rather all necessary experimentation be done now itself and we get a finished product which is unlikely to have an equivalent from the same company for 3-4 years at least.


I think this is unfair, and not correct at all. Any product I've ever bought from Jasper, was as finished as it gets. They just work, and do great things, things that many other libs just can't.


----------



## axb312

Vlzmusic said:


> I think this is unfair, and not correct at all. Any product I've ever bought from Jasper, was as finished as it gets. They just work, and do great things, things that many other libs just can't.


Perhaps, I think we can accept all points of view here....


----------



## Loerpert

axb312 said:


> Perhaps, I think we can accept all points of view here....


Well he said "I think"


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if Jasper still considers Pacific Strings a Pre-Alpha library at this time. Which would mean at least another 2-3 years for the release.


----------



## Vlzmusic

axb312 said:


> Perhaps, I think we can accept all points of view here....


Sure, but is there any example of PS product which did not work as intended, had evident bugs or issues? I just fail to empathize with a view that PS products are for guinea 🐖 , or have any rushed quality to them. Cause they are not. And, believe me, I've been to that shopping cart more than once, owning CM, AW, AB, Percussion II, and Solo Violin B.


----------



## lettucehat

Guinea pigs voluntarily pay for quality products, is that what they do? I don’t work in a research lab.


----------



## axb312

As expected, people attack and get riled up by the words of an opposing view instead of actually considering them.

I agree that to those who can afford it, buying a string library once a year or so from Performance samples is amazing.

I also agree that almost all products released by PS so far have been extremely functional (though I don't really get Oceania 2 - think Oceania 1 is a better product overall).

I understand that samples existed 10-15 years ago and perfectly functional mockups were being created then. Why then are most of these libraries not in use today? Or, to put it another way, why does Performance Samples release flagship string libraries more often than other sampling companies out there?

I don't make money off music. My bad perhaps. But I do expect there to be a statue of limitations or a time period within which a developer will consider improving an existing library instead of releasing a new one. And I feel that this time period is too short, or non-existent with Performance samples.

Also, perhaps my use of the words "Guinea Pigs" is inaccurate here since no actual feedback/ test results are being collected.


----------



## jamessy

axb312 said:


> Jasper as such does not seem to do revisions. From what I understand, he keeps experimenting with sampling techniques and makes his customers his guinea pigs.
> 
> For those who can afford this, this is great.
> 
> But looking at the short gaps from Con Moto to Vista to the announcement of Voyage and Pacific, I would rather all necessary experimentation be done now itself and we get a finished product which is unlikely to have an equivalent from the same company for 3-4 years at least.


Explain how that practice is any different than what SF just did with Appassionata, a library that would have no reason to exist if legato had been accurately executed in their other string libraries


----------



## artinro

Experimentation pushes libraries forward. That said, experimental patches that aren't up to snuff NEVER make it into Jasper's releases. I can tell you that as someone who has tested his libraries over the years. He has an idea that he thinks may add something new and unique to a library, spends the time in a session capturing it, then gathers info. Sometimes the idea becomes a releasable patch. Other times, it just informs future sessions or he iterates on the idea until it becomes releasable. I like this approach because it's how innovation in the field happens. 

I've mentioned to Jasper that he shouldn't rush finishing off Pacific but that he also shouldn't get "release paralysis" over-analyzing what is already great.


----------



## jamessy

axb312 said:


> I understand that samples existed 10-15 years ago and perfectly functional mockups were being created then. Why then are most of these libraries not in use today? Or, to put it another way, why does Performance Samples release flagship string libraries more often than other sampling companies out there?
> 
> I don't make money off music. My bad perhaps. But I do expect there to be a statue of limitations or a time period within which a developer will consider improving an existing library instead of releasing a new one. And I feel that this time period is too short, or non-existent with Performance samples.



What flagship string libraries are you talking about? Con Moto, the legato-only library that was replaced by Vista, the legato-only library, or the very cheaply priced short articulations? Won't Pacific will be the first complete package PS has released? Am I missing one?

Not to target your comments but it seems like we aren't looking at the same developer based on the way you describe. Unlike SF, a developer who I have no issues with, but fits this description much more accurately than PS. They have like half a dozen "flagship" libraries and another dozen specialty string libraries and are in the process of making possibly their biggest one to date with AR. Are they not improving their recording techniques and scripting and compelling their customers to spend more money for an improved version of what they've already spent thousands of dollars on? I mean that's what they just did with SAS, same hall, supposedly couldn't have been done without recording new samples entirely, and quite literally only serves as a hot fix to the legato patches of previously existing libraries. Even released a tutorial on how to make it work with both SCS and SSS. 

Idk about you but as another hobbyist, having spent a couple thousand dollars on SSS/SCS/SsS already, I feel unlikely to spend another couple thousand on the same thing with a different acoustic response. I understand the value for professional composers as these are just additional tools for different situations and the more the merrier, I get it, but that's not me.

Just seems strange that you direct this towards a single dev who is being meticulous with his first release of a complete orchestral package and suggest that he shouldn't be allowed to release it until he spends more time updating his older stuff.


----------



## axb312

jamessy said:


> What flagship string libraries are you talking about? Con Moto, the legato-only library that was replaced by Vista, the legato-only library, or the very cheaply priced short articulations? Won't Pacific will be the first complete package PS has released? Am I missing one?
> 
> Not to target your comments but it seems like we aren't looking at the same developer based on the way you describe. Unlike SF, a developer who I have no issues with, but fits this description much more accurately than PS. They have like half a dozen "flagship" libraries and another dozen specialty string libraries and are in the process of making possibly their biggest one to date with AR. Are they not improving their recording techniques and scripting and compelling their customers to spend more money for an improved version of what they've already spent thousands of dollars on? I mean that's what they just did with SAS, same hall, supposedly couldn't have been done without recording new samples entirely, and quite literally only serves as a hot fix to the legato patches of previously existing libraries. Even released a tutorial on how to make it work with both SCS and SSS.
> 
> Idk about you but as another hobbyist, having spent a couple thousand dollars on SSS/SCS/SsS already, I feel unlikely to spend another couple thousand on the same thing with a different acoustic response. I understand the value for professional composers as these are just additional tools for different situations and the more the merrier, I get it, but that's not me.
> 
> Just seems strange that you direct this towards a single dev who is being meticulous with his first release of a complete orchestral package and suggest that he shouldn't be allowed to release it until he spends more time updating his older stuff.


Yes, I'm referring to Con Moto being replaced with Vista plus Voyage and Pacific seemingly being worked on at the same time. Thought this was clear, I too am in complete agreement that PS releases should not be rushed.


----------



## jamessy

axb312 said:


> Yes, I'm referring to Con Moto being replaced with Vista plus Voyage and Pacific seemingly being worked on at the same time. Thought this was clear, I too am in complete agreement that PS releases should not be rushed.


Okay. Sorry if I seem defensive of PS, I guess it's since it is one person and he is imo unlike the major devs that operate more like you describe


----------



## CT

artinro said:


> I've mentioned to Jasper that he shouldn't rush finishing off Pacific but that he also shouldn't get "release paralysis" over-analyzing what is already great.


Likewise, I've bombarded him with abusive, expletive-laden tirades about hurrying up, but I'm not sure if I'm getting through.


----------



## Vlzmusic

jamessy said:


> Okay. Sorry if I seem defensive of PS,


I think there is nothing defensive in stating simple facts. Like some products being polished, working as promised, and not needing any real update, unless you want to re-record stuff. OR, the fact that Vista was never meant to replace CM, its different hall, different section size, different playing style, different legato, different everything.

Just as I am comfortable praising JB, I am comfortable stating that BBCSO strings now reached level of playability CM offered, and surpassing it in sound quality. Hopefully for Jasper, his Pacific will open the gap once again, and the solo set is certainly a deal maker in my view, this Pacific stuff suddenly is not so "boutiquelly" priced anymore 😉


----------



## monochrome

cello freebie soon lets goooo


----------



## Zanshin

monochrome said:


> cello freebie soon let's goooo


For a few seconds I thought your screen grab said Pacific - Available Very Soon...


----------



## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


> For a few seconds I thought your screen grab said Pacific - Available Very Soon...


See. Hallucinations are kicking in due to the long wait for Pacific Strings.


----------



## jamessy

Vlzmusic said:


> I think there is nothing defensive in stating simple facts. Like some products being polished, working as promised, and not needing any real update, unless you want to re-record stuff. OR, the fact that Vista was never meant to replace CM, its different hall, different section size, different playing style, different legato, different everything.
> 
> Just as I am comfortable praising JB, I am comfortable stating that BBCSO strings now reached level of playability CM offered, and surpassing it in sound quality. Hopefully for Jasper, his Pacific will open the gap once again, and the solo set is certainly a deal maker in my view, this Pacofic stuff suddenly is not so "boutiquelly" priced anymore 😉


That's true, it has apparently come a long way. BBCSO is just the example I had in my mind though of why first impressions are so important. I have come to understand that it has greatly improved since it was first released but all those scathing reviews it endured still reverberate in my mind whenever I see it on sale. I would imagine PS would like to avoid that scenario.

I also agree that Pacific package doesn't seem so unusually priced for what it offers considering the other sections won't be anywhere near the price tag of the strings and the loyalty discount comfortably exceeds the amount of money I spent on Vista


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> See. Hallucinations are kicking in due to the long wait for Pacific Strings.


I started hallucinating second violins. /ducks


----------



## muziksculp

What I don't understand is why is Jasper releasing Freebies, and Solo Strings for Pacific Strings, instead of finishing up the main attraction 'Pacific Strings' , and then adding these other libraries, Solos, Freebies, ..etc., which are additional tasks that take away the focus, and time spent on getting Pacific Strings finalized for release, and just keep delaying its release ? 

I would love to hear a logical answer/reasoning for this.


----------



## Noeticus

muziksculp said:


> What I don't understand is why is Jasper releasing Freebies, and Solo Strings for Pacific Strings, instead of finishing up the main attraction 'Pacific Strings' , and then adding these other libraries, Solos, Freebies, ..etc., which are additional tasks that take away the focus, and time spent on getting Pacific Strings finalized for release, and just keep delaying its release ?
> 
> I would love to hear a logical answer/reasoning for this.


Because that is what he wants to do.


----------



## jamessy

muziksculp said:


> What I don't understand is why is Jasper releasing Freebies, and Solo Strings for Pacific Strings, instead of finishing up the main attraction 'Pacific Strings' , and then adding these other libraries, Solos, Freebies, ..etc., which are additional tasks that take away the focus, and time spent on getting Pacific Strings finalized for release, and just keep delaying its release ?
> 
> I would love to hear a logical answer/reasoning for this.


Difference in the size of tasks / opportunity to gain feedback on cello freebie / changing gears and working on something else as a means of taking a break / being able to walk away from something for a while and come back to it with fresh ears/eyes, etc. 

Obviously I don't know why, but those are logical reasons one might want to not toil away on one single thing day and night


----------



## BasariStudios

Can someone please give me a rational reason or explanation why Voyage and Pacific Strings should exist at the same time?


----------



## CT

BasariStudios said:


> Can someone please give me a rational reason or explanation why Voyage and Pacific Strings should exist at the same time?





Noeticus said:


> Because that is what he wants to do.


----------



## Argy Ottas

I am afraid it's time to unwatch this thread. Not because I'm not interested about the latest news about Pacific and PS in general, but because this thread tends to be toxic, same as many threads here on VI Control.
Some of you guys are unbelievable. Go write some awesome music and let this man create some epic tools, like he already does, for us. And some times they can be free too. Imagine that.


----------



## Noeticus

BasariStudios said:


> Can someone please give me a rational reason or explanation why Voyage and Pacific Strings should exist at the same time?


Voyage will be smaller section sizes (I think)... so in some sense more flexible.


----------



## jazzman7

JGRaynaud said:


> As I did a demo for Synchron Prime, I can explain a bit the process.
> 
> VSL aims for a sound as out of the box as possible. So : no external reverb, EQ as less as possible or no EQ, etc. Also : no external plugins to VSL. Basically the ideal (and what is recommended) is to make a demo without processing and if you want reverb or stuff like that, you do it directly in the Synchron Player with the native plugins and try to do it as less as possible. Same for the mastering : I used the Vienna Suite Pro as they requested it. So the result you hear is pretty much out of the box and untouched. This is pretty different from a mix where you would mix everything the way you want and add as much processing as you want with your favorite plugins, with many EQ, etc.


I must admit that I only listened to the first 2 demos. I just listened to yours and honestly, it was excellent! 

I had made a general criticism without really digging very deep and I apologize. We all should be able to praise or criticize with equal facility, but I must say I will try to do a more thorough job before voicing negativity in the future! I appreciate the patience and insight you provided in your post


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Pacific is gonna be awesome. Besides, I have N to tide me over in the meantime.


----------



## BasariStudios

jazzman7 said:


> I must admit that I only listened to the first 2 demos. I just listened to yours and honestly, it was excellent!
> 
> I had made a general criticism without really digging very deep and I apologize. We all should be able to praise or criticize with equal facility, but I must say I will try to do a more thorough job before voicing negativity in the future! I appreciate the patience and insight you provided in your post


I am just so confused.


----------



## axb312

BasariStudios said:


> Can someone please give me a rational reason or explanation why Voyage and Pacific Strings should exist at the same time?


Different feature sets, Different Section sizes. There's also the upcoming string library with Audio Imperia...


----------



## Raphioli

Zanshin said:


> For a few seconds I thought your screen grab said Pacific - Available Very Soon...


Sooner or later, we'll all start to see dreams about Pacific being released


----------



## muziksculp

Raphioli said:


> Sooner or later, we'll all start to see dreams about Pacific being released


I dreamt that it was finally released as a Freebie


----------



## Reznov981

Evans said:


> I've run out of drive space. I have also run out of ports for a new drive. So any new content means a new drive and a hub.


Or you could delete some old libraries  can always re-download later


----------



## holywilly

muziksculp said:


> I dreamt that it was finally released as a Freebie


AMEN!


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Did I miss the solo cello freebie?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

FrozenIcicle said:


> Did I miss the solo cello freebie?


It's not out yet i think.


----------



## Getsumen

Happy Birthday folks





Pacific – Solo Cello Legato – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## Pougrivioure

If Pacifics being delayed means more freebies, i don't mind :D


----------



## axb312

It sounds great.


----------



## Noeticus

Another winner from Performance Samples!!!


----------



## ScarletJerry

Wow! This is a remarkable free instrument with a gorgeous, emotional legato and a very entended range. Its range is so vast that it can also be used as a viola, and even sounds like a violin at its highest register. This is the work of a master. Thank you Jasper!

Scarlet Jerry


----------



## Daniel

Thank you, Jasper!


----------



## Hendrixon

If that's "a freebie", what will the paid solo library be like?


----------



## muziksculp

Quote from Jasper on his FB page :

"_I'm relieved to get this one wrapped up - back to finishing Pacific Ensemble and Solo Strings. _"


----------



## muziksculp

Thank You Jasper/Performance Samples for the Solo Cello Freebie


----------



## Argy Ottas

Hey people. I took this beautiful PS cello freebie for a spin. I also used some Pacific con sordino freebie strings, and I can tell they blend just perfect. The "life" that PS provides never fails to give you instant inspiration. Hope you like it. Argy


----------



## jazzman7

Argy Ottas said:


> Hey people. I took this beautiful PS cello freebie for a spin. I also used some Pacific con sordino freebie strings, and I can tell they blend just perfect. The "life" that PS provides never fails to give you instant inspiration. Hope you like it. Argy


Sounds wonderful! I just downloaded it myself and fired it up. Just...Wow


----------



## LamaRose

Yeah, this cello is impressive... for solo, legato writing, it trumps any other cello lib I've ever owned or heard... but it's going to cost me $50 next month to upgrade to K6! Cheers and thanks to JB for this one.


----------



## Futchibon

Argy Ottas said:


> Hey people. I took this beautiful PS cello freebie for a spin. I also used some Pacific con sordino freebie strings, and I can tell they blend just perfect. The "life" that PS provides never fails to give you instant inspiration. Hope you like it. Argy


Another beauty Argy!


----------



## MusicalG

Argy Ottas said:


> Hey people. I took this beautiful PS cello freebie for a spin. I also used some Pacific con sordino freebie strings, and I can tell they blend just perfect. The "life" that PS provides never fails to give you instant inspiration. Hope you like it. Argy


Beautiful as always my friend


----------



## tcb

Thank you


----------



## wunderflo

From Jasper's Facebook:

"I was planning to release it [the Pacific Solo Strings, meaning Violin & Cello that in their final version will contain more articulations and dynamics if I understood correctly?] alongside Pacific Ensemble Strings, where you can add it to your order for free during the intro period (of Ensemble Strings).
However the more I've thought about it, I've realized I will technically be able to finish Ensemble Strings sooner if I don't try to get the Solo Strings finished at the same time. For that reason, I'm now considering releasing Ensemble Strings first, and have a coupon code that is sent out along with the rest of the fulfillment emails. With the Ensemble Strings out, I'd have the ability to focus on wrapping up Solo Strings and they would (in theory) follow the release of the Ensemble Strings, perhaps 3-4 weeks later. Those who picked up the Ensemble Strings during intro could then use their coupon code to pick up the Solo Strings for free.
Pacific Ensemble Strings has basically been fully playable for a while. The main things holding it back right now have been an unhealthy obsession with consistent release times/shape which I have a tendency to get into the weeds with, as well as as a new way to squeeze more out of legato recordings that I learned on the solo cello freebie and have been introducing to the Pacific legatos. But I do have an internal date range in mind now for release (still within Q2), and am aiming to meet that, as long as nothing comes up.
I'm considering more loyalty-based freebies in the future as well (if you own certain libraries etc), if I can decide on a system for it. I do like the idea of that"

And on the delays he wrote: "Between technical analysis paralysis, hearing loss, and other things, Pacific Ensemble Strings took longer than expected and serves as a lesson for me in terms of better scheduling management in the future, but that one is in the books for the next release."

I'm very happy to hear that.


----------



## Raphioli

Thanks for the heads up @wunderflo

As for the following,


wunderflo said:


> unhealthy obsession with consistent release times/shape which I have a tendency to get into the weeds with, as well as as a new way to squeeze more out of legato recordings that I learned on the solo cello freebie and have been introducing to the Pacific legatos.


I admire this perfectionist part of him. Not many sample developers have this much craftsmanship, because they just try to push things out so fast, the buyers literally become the beta testers sadly.
Not only does he iron out bugs as much as possible, but he also goes beyond that and tries to achieve something better than what he initially planned to. Much respect for that.


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Raphioli said:


> Thanks for the heads up @wunderflo
> 
> As for the following,
> 
> I admire this perfectionist part of him. Not many sample developers have this much craftsmanship, because they just try to push things out so fast, the buyers literally become the beta testers sadly.
> Not only does he iron out bugs as much as possible, but he also goes beyond that and tries to achieve something better than what he initially planned to. Much respect for that.


I'd rather him take his time tweaking cause there won't be an update later.
I'm also worried about coupon codes cause in the past codes were sent to everyone even if you didn't own anything.
Finally, thank you for the solo cello!


----------



## Vlzmusic

Finally tried the Cello freebe - it could easily pass as a third Solo of the Seas release 

I only wish the xfades back to sustain wouldn't be so obvious, and so early on. I had similar feeling about AW. Its the only giveaway currently, for otherwise stellar instrument you can use as a soloist.


----------



## Noeticus

If you dance until it rains, it means that dancing causes it to rain.

Therefore, pressing F5 on a PC repeated when visiting this thread should cause "Pacific Strings" to release, yet what am I doing wrong? Is my F5 mojo off?


----------



## polynaeus

Just out of curiosity do people believe Performance Samples is just Jasper? Better put… that only one person works on these libraries?


----------



## Vlzmusic

polynaeus said:


> Just out of curiosity do people believe Performance Samples is just Jasper? Better put… that only one person works on these libraries?


Its not a requirement, if that's what you mean. Knowing that there is a farm of little dwarfs working on PS instruments at night, wouldn't change my attitude or anything...


----------



## polynaeus

Vlzmusic said:


> Its not a requirement, if that's what you mean. Knowing that there is a farm of little dwarfs working on PS instruments at night, wouldn't change my attitude or anything...


Sure, yeah it just seems like the sentiment around here is that it’s just Jasper working on these libraries.


----------



## FrozenIcicle

polynaeus said:


> Just out of curiosity do people believe Performance Samples is just Jasper? Better put… that only one person works on these libraries?


I consider him the modern Thomas Bergersen (not that TB isn't modern, he just doesn't sample these days)


----------



## Niv Schrieber

FrozenIcicle said:


> I consider him the modern Thomas Bergersen (not that TB isn't modern, he just doesn't sample these days)


I Agree, his aesthetics are very very similar to Thomas Bergersen's sound. especially his strings aesthetics.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Sounds so good!


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Baronvonheadless said:


> Sounds so good!



You had me at whisper


----------



## CT

Remarkable that a dedicated "soft strings" patch feels more naturally expressive and dynamic than many vanilla long patches out there.


----------



## Evans

I need to commit to not buying anything else until these are out...


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Evans said:


> I need to commit to not buying anything else until these are out...


Yeah I just bought the special bows 1 package and the cello from special bows 2 a la carte and then I see this….


----------



## Futchibon

Baronvonheadless said:


> Sounds so good!


Aye, sir!



Evans said:


> I need to commit to not buying anything else until these are out...


It's going to be hard with a new OT library dropping soon...


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Aye, sir!
> 
> 
> It's going to be hard with a new OT library dropping soon...


I doubt OT’s new library will produce more GAS (for me), than Pacific Strings Ensembles & Solo Strings.


----------



## Reznov981

So keen for these.
When is the release?!
Did I see something bout Q2? That’s like in the next month!


----------



## muziksculp

Reznov981 said:


> So keen for these.
> When is the release?!
> Did I see something bout Q2? That’s like in the next month!


🤞


----------



## Casiquire

Reznov981 said:


> So keen for these.
> When is the release?!
> Did I see something bout Q2? That’s like in the next month!


We don't know just yet, but i think when we find out, you won't be able to miss it


----------



## Gerbil

Baronvonheadless said:


> Sounds so good!



Oh shit ... I'm going to have to buy this, aren't I? Farewell savings. You've been a kind friend.


----------



## RonOrchComp

Baronvonheadless said:


> Sounds so good!



That sounds good, no doubt. I am hearing some hi-end hissing noise, however, that is very prevalent.


----------



## Casiquire

RonOrchComp said:


> That sounds good, no doubt. I am hearing some hi-end hissing noise, however, that is very prevalent.


Cue the mob shouting NOT FOR PURISTS! NOT FOR PURISTS!

At this stage, hiss should be an expectation from PS. Especially at those kinds of dynamics.


----------



## Noeticus

Bow noise can be reduced with software like SpectraLayers if you so desire.


----------



## Noeticus

Also... I love this demo...


----------



## RonOrchComp

Noeticus said:


> Bow noise can be reduced with software like SpectraLayers if you so desire.


That's not bow noise.


----------



## Gabriel S.

RonOrchComp said:


> That sounds good, no doubt. I am hearing some hi-end hissing noise, however, that is very prevalent.


Noise can be beautiful


----------



## Noeticus

RonOrchComp said:


> That's not bow noise.


Did I say that it was?


----------



## Baronvonheadless

^^so many emotions in this thread 😂


----------



## Noeticus

🍷 🍷 🍷 🍷 🍷


----------



## Saxer

Available soon, eh?


----------



## Casiquire

Saxer said:


> Available soon, eh?


We have a few billion years of sun left, so 2056 really is quite soon in the grand scheme of things.

Joking aside, I'm on #TeamTakeUrTime


----------



## Gabriel S.

Casiquire said:


> Joking aside, I'm on #TeamTakeUrTime


+1


----------



## Zanshin

#teambeforeIamtemptedbytheOTberlinReleasethatpissesmeoffbecausetheyneedTofixberlinmainsStill


----------



## Vlzmusic

Zanshin said:


> #teambeforeIamtemptedbytheOTberlinReleasethatpissesmeoffbecausetheyneedTofixberlinmainsStill


Join the Jasper clan, and you will never have to wait for a fix again in your life


----------



## Zanshin

Vlzmusic said:


> Join the Jasper clan, and you will never have to wait for a fix again in your life


I have most already (don't have Oceanias or percussion). But yeah... Pacific...


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


>


I see strings......yes a mid tone .....oh yes a sweet sound it's ..it's it's arh yes it's the free violas give away please check your emails


----------



## olvra

Gabriel S. said:


> Noise floor can be beautiful


there, fixed it for you


----------



## dhmusic

There's a cello feature using the cello freebie starting around :30 if anyone is interested in hearing it in context


----------



## Reznov981

By any chance, does anyone have any more info on the solo strings? The PS website is nearly silent, and I'm really juggling up whether I grab Spitfire Solo Strings while on sale now or risk giving the Spitfire sale a miss and getting Pacific Solo Strings. I just want to know a bit more about the Pacifics. Do we have any info on artics? Dynamics? RR? Vibrato control (would be great)?


----------



## gamma-ut

There will doubtless be more Spitfire sales and the current discount on SSoS is no bigger than the other recent sales.


----------



## Reznov981

gamma-ut said:


> There will doubtless be more Spitfire sales and the current discount on SSoS is no bigger than the other recent sales.


Totally 
I’m just impatient, and want my solo strings now lol
I’ve been really curious about the Pacific ones for ages, and so little info has been given about them. 🥶


----------



## dyvoid

I hope this wasn't discussed already, but looks to me like the prices have been lowered?

Strings: *$299 loyalty intro*, $449 intro, $599 full






Pacific – Strings – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com





When did this happen?!


----------



## doctoremmet

🙀


----------



## Reznov981

doctoremmet said:


> 🙀





dyvoid said:


> I hope this wasn't discussed already, but looks to me like the prices have been lowered?
> 
> Strings: *$299 loyalty intro*, $449 intro, $599 full
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pacific – Strings – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did this happen?!


Oh boy
I was considering this package before
I am inextricably in danger now
I have such bad GAS right now I think my arse is about to explode


----------



## dyvoid

Yeah, I think I can smell a gasleak in here..


----------



## Futchibon

Sorry Paul Thomson, But I'M VERY EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## wlinart

The sound made it already no brainer territory, but now the price too, amazing!


----------



## Vlzmusic

Jokes aside - I don't like JB mindset at the moment. He probably has some fears about Pacific, and this situation doesn't serve neither him, nor us. If someone has a talk with him, please let him know he has our backs here. It all starts to seem irrational and gets me worried on personal level honestly.


----------



## Raphioli

dyvoid said:


> I hope this wasn't discussed already, but looks to me like the prices have been lowered?
> 
> Strings: *$299 loyalty intro*, $449 intro, $599 full
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pacific – Strings – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did this happen?!


holy ****(self-censored)
WOW

and its not like the loyalty price requirements changed.
Thanks Jasper!


----------



## Hans-Peter

At 299 USD we are moving into no-brainer territory! Thanks Jasper!


----------



## CT

Vlzmusic said:


> Jokes aside - I don't like JB mindset at the moment. He probably has some fears about Pacific, and this situation doesn't serve neither him, nor us. If someone has a talk with him, please let him know he has our backs here. It all starts to seem irrational and gets me worried on personal level honestly.


Think you may be jumping to some conclusions there!


----------



## Supremo

I used PS Spiccatos and Solo Cello in this track. The cello is doubled by Bohemian Cello as I find this combination to give very satisfying results.


----------



## Marco_D

Vlzmusic said:


> Jokes aside - I don't like JB mindset at the moment. He probably has some fears about Pacific, and this situation doesn't serve neither him, nor us. If someone has a talk with him, please let him know he has our backs here. It all starts to seem irrational and gets me worried on personal level honestly.


I am out of the loop here. Can you explain what you mean by this? You are worried by a price drop?


----------



## davidson

There are no solo strings in pacific, right? The cello sounds so good that i can't fathom why there isn't.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

davidson said:


> There are no solo strings in pacific, right? The cello sounds so good that i can't fathom why there isn't.


There's a long post on page 121 with the info you're looking for i think. post 2405


----------



## Benbln

Am I getting this right that I could qualify for the intro price if I own only one of their products but it's not important which one? So I could go with the River Piano for 29 $ to get the intro price of Pacific Strings?


----------



## tritonely

Benbln said:


> Am I getting this right that I could qualify for the intro price if I own only one of their products but it's not important which one? So I could go with the River Piano for 29 $ to get the intro price of Pacific Strings?


https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific/#1624072578134-cdad0f59-441e For specifically strings you need Vista (available to purchase) or at least 1 of the packages of Con Moto (not available to purchase anymore)


----------



## davidson

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> There's a long post on page 121 with the info you're looking for i think. post 2405


Ahhh, so they're coming in the future, awesome!


----------



## Benbln

tritonely said:


> https://www.performancesamples.com/pacific/#1624072578134-cdad0f59-441e For specifically strings you need Vista (available to purchase) or at least 1 of the packages of Con Moto (not available to purchase anymore)


Thanks for the help! Accidentally overlooked that but it makes sense.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Marco_D said:


> I am out of the loop here. Can you explain what you mean by this? You are worried by a price drop?


I am worried, cause all this Pacific situation could might as well be a sign of distress. When such a huge investment was made, and now the library is constantly being delayed, "devalued", reconsidered as being incomplete etc. I just hope JB is in good shape, thats all.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Michaelt said:


> Think you may be jumping to some conclusions there!


Could you recall a similar situation with another dev acting so?


----------



## Marco_D

Vlzmusic said:


> I am worried, cause all this Pacific situation could might as well be a sign of distress. When such a huge investment was made, and now the library is constantly being delayed, "devalued", reconsidered as being incomplete etc. I just hope JB is in good shape, thats all.


OK, I appreciate that you are concerned for a fellow human, but I still don't understand how this concern is warranted by the situation. Delaying a project isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact it could mean that you're treating yourself kindly rather than forcing yourself to crunch. 

Also, lowering a price doesn't always mean "devaluing". You need to find the sweet spot to maximize your overall profit and sometimes that means lowering the price.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Marco_D said:


> OK, I appreciate that you are concerned for a fellow human, but I still don't understand how this concern is warranted by the situation. Delaying a project isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact it could mean that you're treating yourself kindly rather than forcing yourself to crunch.
> 
> Also, lowering a price doesn't always mean "devaluing". You need to find the sweet spot to maximize your overall profit and sometimes that means lowering the price.


Could be many things, I agree on that. But considering its a "killer new shiny thing" so many people are eagerly awaiting, and we have indications it was a great value anyhow, and apparently was ready to release...


----------



## Evans

Ah, so this went from my feelings this weekend of "I can totally do without it" (which goes for almost anything, if I'm being honest) to a sure purchase.


----------



## Noeticus

What was the Loyalty price previously?


----------



## doctoremmet

Noeticus said:


> What was the Loyalty price previously?


$449


----------



## Noeticus

Then what was the Intro Price previously?


----------



## muziksculp

Wow ! Loyalty Price $299. makes Pacific Strings a super no brainer purchase. 

Plus it will also include the Pacific Solo Strings voucher, so they can be purchased for Free when released. I really hope that Jasper can finally release Pacific Strings next month (June). 

Thank You Performance Samples


----------



## Zanshin

muziksculp said:


> Plus it will also include the Pacific Solo Strings voucher, so they can be purchased for Free when released. I really hope that Jasper can finally release Pacific Strings next month (June).


That's not really confirmed anywhere since the price change. Perhaps the lower price is without the solo strings.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

dyvoid said:


> I hope this wasn't discussed already, but looks to me like the prices have been lowered?
> 
> Strings: *$299 loyalty intro*, $449 intro, $599 full
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pacific – Strings – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did this happen?!


My wallet just ran away. Can anyone help me find it? It always does this when I decide to buy a performance samples library ...


----------



## muziksculp

Zanshin said:


> That's not really confirmed anywhere since the price change. Perhaps the lower price is without the solo strings.


Maybe, but there is no mention that the Solo Strings are not included. Maybe more info. on this detail will be posted so we are clear on this detail.


----------



## axb312

Was there a reduction in scope or articulations somewhere to go with the price reduction? Think Solo strings has been taken out of the package....and 150 USD reduced?


----------



## doctoremmet

axb312 said:


> Was there a reduction in scope or articulations somewhere to go with the price reduction? Think Solo strings has been taken out of the package....and 150 USD reduced?


Sounds plausible


----------



## Markrs

Zanshin said:


> That's not really confirmed anywhere since the price change. Perhaps the lower price is without the solo strings.





muziksculp said:


> Maybe, but there is no mention that the Solo Strings are not included. Maybe more info. on this detail will be posted so we are clear on this detail.





axb312 said:


> Was there a reduction in scope or articulations somewhere to go with the price reduction? Think Solo strings has been taken out of the package....and 150 USD reduced?


On the website it says:

"Customers that purchase during the intro (whether loyalty or not) will be able to pick up Pacific Solo Strings for free when it’s released (ETA Q3 2022) – details TBA"

So it looks like the $299 includes the solo strings unless I have missed something.


----------



## Zanshin

Markrs said:


> On the website it says:
> Customers that purchase during the intro (whether loyalty or not) will be able to pick up Pacific Solo Strings for free when it’s released (ETA Q3 2022) – details TBA
> 
> So it looks like the $299 includes the solo strings unless I have missed something.


Awesome!


----------



## Raphioli

Markrs said:


> On the website it says:
> 
> "Customers that purchase during the intro (whether loyalty or not) will be able to pick up Pacific Solo Strings for free when it’s released (ETA Q3 2022) – details TBA"
> 
> So it looks like the $299 includes the solo strings unless I have missed something.


Thats really generous of him after the huge discount in price!


----------



## axb312

Markrs said:


> On the website it says:
> 
> "Customers that purchase during the intro (whether loyalty or not) will be able to pick up Pacific Solo Strings for free when it’s released (ETA Q3 2022) – details TBA"
> 
> So it looks like the $299 includes the solo strings unless I have missed something.


Seems like a great deal then...


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

I was thinking the price drop maybe was to compete with other sales going on. The timing suggest that. Plus with what seems a saturated string market, there are maybe not that many takers?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Either way the price drop is working.


----------



## Markrs

Never really explored performance samples and don't own any of their paid libraries, so might watch a few videos and wait on a sale to qualify for the loyalty discount if I like what I hear.


----------



## doctoremmet

Markrs said:


> Never really explored performance samples and don't own any of their paid libraries, so might watch a few videos and wait on a sale to qualify for the loyalty discount if I like what I hear.


Their playability is terrific, which is why I purchased Vista during the last sale. I like libraries that excel at a certain thing.


----------



## Instrugramm

Competitive pricing may be a smart move, I'm sure a lot of people who might otherwise have gone for Spitfire or OT will now think twice about missing out on these. And even if you're well equipped...I notice myself that I've never gone for SCS because even at 360 euros it's a steep price if you have more string libraries than you could ever possibly need. 299 really is no-brainer territory.


----------



## Larbguy

GAS viciously increasing after hearing about those loyalty prices :/


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

the og price was always gonna be way out of my budget. so glad i can actually get these in the future


----------



## AMBi

They should like

. 😳
👉👈

(Put Vista on sale before it releases so I can get in on that loyalty pricing)


----------



## Getsumen

AMBi said:


> They should like
> 
> . 😳
> 👉👈
> 
> (Put Vista on sale before it releases so I can get in on that loyalty pricing)


But they already did that like a month ago!


----------



## AMBi

Getsumen said:


> But they already did that like a month ago!


The circumstances have changed, the library is actually affordable now!


----------



## AEF

Wow! Great great price for us loyalty folks!


----------



## dzilizzi

I got Vista on sale last fall thinking this will get me loyalty pricing. Realized after that I actually own Con Moto that I picked up during the discontinuation sale. 

Oh, well. Really looking forward to Pacific now.


----------



## Markrs

AMBi said:


> The circumstances have changed, the library is actually affordable now!


My thoughts too. Before Pacific was out of my price range, this price beings it back into consideration.


----------



## Noeticus

Since Pacific Strings will deliver LOTS of Dynamic Layers, the price is now even more amazing!

Golly gee!


----------



## chapbot

Markrs said:


> My thoughts too. Before Pacific was out of my price range, this price beings it back into consideration.


That's why this is a smart marketing move. Plus everybody is 10 times more broke than we were even 6 months ago.


----------



## axb312

chapbot said:


> That's why this is a smart marketing move. Plus everybody is 10 times more broke than we were even 6 months ago.


Amen


----------



## lettucehat

These companies are too clever with their limited time pricing. One week ago I wasn't considering any symphonic sized string libraries, and now I'm weighing 3, depending on when this one is released.


----------



## Reznov981

Some info from Performance Samples on Facebook (today, May 25). Some of this is on the website and some is not.

“I'm aiming to focus back on [Pacific Solo Strings] as soon as Pacific Ensemble Strings is out, as I realized trying to do both at once would result in delays for both. Right now I've said Q3 2022 for Pacific Solo Strings and I feel confident in that as long as there are no curveballs. I realize I haven't made a dedicated web page for Pacific Solo Strings yet (being a recent development), but as far as what was recorded and is in progress (and will ideally all see the light of day in final release):

1. Legatos (slur on cello, slur/bowchange/bowchange-port on violin)
2. Motion tremolos, example here: 
3. Pizzicatos (sourced from repetitions)
4. Staccatos (sourced from repetitions)
5. Spiccatos (sourced from repetitions)
6. Marcatos (in the style of Pacific Ensemble Strings)
7. Harmonics

I think that covers it. I recorded multiple dynamics (up to 4 iirc) for all but #1, and plan to integrate them in a solo "dynamic xfade" approach I'm playing with.
I hope this helps a bit - and above all I'm grateful for the ongoing patience as I work to wrap these up.
Best
JB”


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Omg the price drop and OT strings announcement. If he just released it already I wouldn’t have this dilemma


----------



## jazzman7

Vlzmusic said:


> Jokes aside - I don't like JB mindset at the moment. He probably has some fears about Pacific, and this situation doesn't serve neither him, nor us. If someone has a talk with him, please let him know he has our backs here. It all starts to seem irrational and gets me worried on personal level honestly.


I've been out of the loop for a bit. While hearing this news makes my wallet very happy, I also have a sense of disquiet about this. This just does not feel like the Jasper I'm used to. Whatever may or may not be happening, I hope all will go well. This is a Dev that I want to see prospering and continuing to innovate


----------



## chapbot

jazzman7 said:


> I've been out of the loop for a bit. While hearing this news makes my wallet very happy, I also have a sense of disquiet about this. This just does not feel like the Jasper I'm used to. Whatever may or may not be happening, I hope all will go well. This is a Dev that I want to see prospering and continuing to innovate


Wasn't there talk of him mentioning somewhere in social media that he wasn't quite happy with the violins? I think he rerecorded them? As a perfectionist he won't release anything until he's happy with it, plus there have probably been delays due to his hearing loss.


----------



## Snarf

chapbot said:


> Wasn't there talk of him mentioning somewhere in social media that he wasn't quite happy with the violins? I think he rerecorded them? As a perfectionist he won't release anything until he's happy with it, plus there have probably been delays due to his hearing loss.


That was about the Pacific solo strings not ensemble strings. The violin had some issues so he rerecorded it as well as a new cello. The old cello was fine so he released it as a freebie. The new solo strings will have more articulations than just legato.


----------



## Drundfunk

dyvoid said:


> I hope this wasn't discussed already, but looks to me like the prices have been lowered?
> 
> Strings: *$299 loyalty intro*, $449 intro, $599 full
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pacific – Strings – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did this happen?!


Yeah alright, with the price drop he got me. Wasn't really considering it before due to the high price point, but now it kinda slithered into no-brainer-territory. Good decision Jasper. Good decision.


----------



## ism

Yep, at $299 my interest suddenly becomes more than academic .


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

why couldn't i just be loyal for that vista sale... :/


----------



## AndyP

299! My attention has just increased significantly.


----------



## Raphioli

It would be kind of interesting if it were possible to know how many copies he would have sold before the price reduction and compare it with after the price drop.

Its just a "feeling", but its starting to feel like he might actually make more profit by the recent price drop by selling more copies.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

When’s the release date? Does Pacific include con sordino?


----------



## dyvoid

Raphioli said:


> It would be kind of interesting if it were possible to know how many copies he would have sold before the price reduction and compare it with after the price drop.
> 
> Its just a "feeling", but its starting to feel like he might actually make more profit by the recent price drop by selling more copies.


Yeah, I was just going to say, I think this thread is proving that getting the price point right is very important. I think he's going to increase his overall profit.


----------



## dyvoid

ALittleNightMusic said:


> When’s the release date? Does Pacific include con sordino?


Release date has forever been in limbo. Officially it's Q2, so could be any day now, but who knows at this point?! And yes, there will be con sordino, but only sustains, so no legato.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

dyvoid said:


> Release date has forever been in limbo. Officially it's Q2, so could be any day now,


But why drop the price just before releasing it right? To me, that suggest it will not be release for a little while. At least i hope so cause I'm not ready.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Any word on the interface/GUI? I hope he implements key-switchs as oppose to single instrument per articulations.


----------



## Gabriel S.

dyvoid said:


> Release date has forever been in limbo. Officially it's Q2, so could be any day now, but who knows at this point?! And yes, there will be con sordino, but only sustains, so no legato.


Q3 now, website updated. Better to wait and have a great product than to rush.
UPDATE: I misread it, the Q3 is only for Pacific SOLO Strings.


----------



## Raphioli

Gabriel S. said:


> Q3 now, website updated. Better to wait and have a great product than to rush.


You got me right there, went to there website right away lol

I think you took the "ETA Q3" as the release for the Pacific Ensemble Strings.
But that's the release date for Solo strings.
The ETA for Ensemble strings hasn't changed as of this moment.


----------



## mr.vad0614

I am stuck now, as to whether I should wait for Pacific Strings or go for the Berlin Strings Bundle...Decisions...Decisions...Decisions. Any therapists on here that can help me out here? 😜...😝


----------



## Zanshin

mr.vad0614 said:


> I am stuck now, as to whether I should wait for Pacific String or go for the Berlin Strings Bundle...Decisions...Decisions...Decisions. Any therapists on here that can help me out here? 😜...😝


Buy both.


----------



## Gabriel S.

Raphioli said:


> You got me right there, went to there website right away lol
> 
> I think you took the "ETA Q3" as the release for the Pacific Ensemble Strings.
> But that's the release date for Solo strings.
> The ETA for Ensemble strings hasn't changed as of this moment.


Ouchs sorry! I misread it.
Thanks for the clarification


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Gabriel S. said:


> Q3 now, website updated. Better to wait and have a great product than to rush.


Perhaps next time Jasper should postpone putting up library info and let preorder begin until he’s got a clear view on when the library’s gonna be finished.

This constant postponing seems a little unprofessional tbh.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Bernard Duc

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Perhaps next time Jasper should postpone putting up library info and let preorder begin until he’s got a clear view on when the library’s gonna be finished.
> 
> This constant postponing seems a little unprofessional tbh.


Maybe I misunderstood you, but there is no preorder at all.


----------



## CT

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Perhaps next time Jasper should postpone putting up library info and let preorder begin until he’s got a clear view on when the library’s gonna be finished.
> 
> This constant postponing seems a little unprofessional tbh.


He's always stated that prices/release dates are "estimated" and subject to change. My guess is that most people appreciate at least having those estimates, even when they are altered. It's hardly unprofessional. It's uncommonly transparent, compared to pretty much every other developer (some of whom opt to miss official release dates without a word of explanation before or after).


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Bernard Duc said:


> Maybe I misunderstood you, but there is no preorder at all.


Ah, my mistake - thanks.


----------



## Gabriel S.

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Perhaps next time Jasper should postpone putting up library info and let preorder begin until he’s got a clear view on when the library’s gonna be finished.
> 
> This constant postponing seems a little unprofessional tbh.


Hey Henrik, I see I'd should edit my post. I misread it, the Q3 is for the Solo Strings. Another user corrected me right after my post.
So, he didn't postpone anything. Sorry for the confusion.

Still, the guy had serious health issues so at least for me any kind of delay would be totally justified. Nobody payed anything, nobody is being harmed in any way...  For me professionalism is doing what he is doing, which is making sure he'll deliver a good product no matter what.


----------



## Futchibon

mr.vad0614 said:


> I am stuck now, as to whether I should wait for Pacific Strings or go for the Berlin Strings Bundle...Decisions...Decisions...Decisions. Any therapists on here that can help me out here? 😜...


Do you own any of the Berlin Strings line already?
Do you qualify for the Pacific loyalty pricing with Vista or Con Moto?
What's you credit card number?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Gabriel S. said:


> Hey Henrik, I see I'd should edit my post. I misread it, the Q3 is for the Solo Strings. Another user corrected me right after my post.
> So, he didn't postpone anything. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Still, the guy had serious health issues so at least for me any kind of delay would be totally justified. Nobody payed anything, nobody is being harmed in any way...  For me professionalism is doing what he is doing, which is making sure he'll deliver a good product no matter what.


Ah! That’s good to hear, then I did Jasper wrong by mistake. All is fine then


----------



## polynaeus

Loyalty price sounds great, however I don’t own any of the Con Moto. Stink. 

What are peoples thoughts on getting Vista AND Pacific? I kind of feel like it could be unnecessary. I own SCS and CSS. Very interested in Pacific though.

Wish PS would offer the loyalty price for any of his other libraries.


----------



## soulofsound

polynaeus said:


> Loyalty price sounds great, however I don’t own any of the Con Moto. Stink.
> 
> What are peoples thoughts on getting Vista AND Pacific? I kind of feel like it could be unnecessary. I own SCS and CSS. Very interested in Pacific though.
> 
> Wish PS would offer the loyalty price for any of his other libraries.


Personally i prefer Con Moto, because it's got less vibrato. For its intended use Vista sounds great, though.


----------



## polynaeus

soulofsound said:


> Personally i prefer Con Moto, because it's got less vibrato. For its intended use Vista sounds great, though.


Con Moto is unavailable now though correct?


----------



## Casiquire

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Perhaps next time Jasper should postpone putting up library info and let preorder begin until he’s got a clear view on when the library’s gonna be finished.
> 
> This constant postponing seems a little unprofessional tbh.


Every time a dev tries this, people still get mad. It's damned if you do/damned if you don't.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Casiquire said:


> Every time a dev tries this, people still get mad. It's damned if you do/damned if you don't.


What do you mean? People don’t get mad at VSL: They announce a library when it’s ready and that’s that.


----------



## artinro

Just jumping in to re-iterate that Pacific Ensemble has NOT been postponed to Q3. Q3 is the tentative release window for the recently announced Pacific Solo strings. Ensemble strings is still slated for Q2.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Ah, my mistake - thanks.


For some reason, i also thought there was a pre-order sale. :-/


----------



## Loerpert

polynaeus said:


> Loyalty price sounds great, however I don’t own any of the Con Moto. Stink.
> 
> What are peoples thoughts on getting Vista AND Pacific? I kind of feel like it could be unnecessary. I own SCS and CSS. Very interested in Pacific though.
> 
> Wish PS would offer the loyalty price for any of his other libraries.


Vista has extreme vibrato, which can be absolutely stunning in the right cases. Pacific should be more toned down and has larger sections, so I think both could be fine additions to SCS and CSS (I own all three and use them all for different things).


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

polynaeus said:


> What are peoples thoughts on getting Vista AND Pacific? I kind of feel like it could be unnecessary. I own SCS and CSS. Very interested in Pacific though.


I don't think Vista will bring anything new to the table if you have CSS so i agree it would be unnecessary. Pacific might bring something new being a larger ensemble but that's for you to decide. Personally, i can't imagine someone regretting buy a PS String library...


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## polynaeus

Loerpert said:


> Vista has extreme vibrato, which can be absolutely stunning in the right cases. Pacific should be more toned down and has larger sections, so I think both could be fine additions to SCS and CSS (I own all three and use them all for different things).





Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I don't think Vista will bring anything new to the table if you have CSS so i agree it would be unnecessary. Pacific might bring something new being a larger ensemble but that's for you to decide. Personally, i can't imagine someone regretting buy a PS String library...


Thank you both. Intro is still decent for Pacific, wish I could get in on the loyalty though!

Agree Pacific is sounding great and would be a nice full sized string addition to the tool chest.

Hey Jasper & Co open up the loyalty to other products!


----------



## dzilizzi

polynaeus said:


> Thank you both. Intro is still decent for Pacific, wish I could get in on the loyalty though!
> 
> Agree Pacific is sounding great and would be a nice full sized string addition to the tool chest.
> 
> Hey Jasper & Co open up the loyalty to other products!


Well, I think the Strings are supposed to replace Con Moto, hence the loyalty discount for that. Then he added Vista.


----------



## polynaeus

dzilizzi said:


> Well, I think the Strings are supposed to replace Con Moto, hence the loyalty discount for that. Then he added Vista.


Oh. Replace? Weird. Like… it basically covers all the same ground as Con Moto?


----------



## ism

dzilizzi said:


> Well, I think the Strings are supposed to replace Con Moto, hence the loyalty discount for that. Then he added Vista.


Or ... maybe it's more that Jasper, being the artist that he is, if he wants to stop selling paintings in a particular shade of orange and start selling paintings in a particular shade of yellow, well there's no particular reason why he shouldn't.


----------



## dzilizzi

polynaeus said:


> Oh. Replace? Weird. Like… it basically covers all the same ground as Con Moto?


Plus some. Con Moto was basically legatos. Pacific should have everything


----------



## Futchibon

dzilizzi said:


> Plus some. Con Moto was basically legatos. Pacific should have everything


No staccatos. And have people heard that there are no second violins?


----------



## Raphioli

Futchibon said:


> have people heard that there are no second violins?


----------



## dzilizzi

Futchibon said:


> No staccatos. And have people heard that there are no second violins?


What do you mean no second violin? If there are more than 2 violins, you have at least one second violin!


----------



## Argy Ottas

Futchibon said:


> No staccatos. And have people heard that there are no second violins?





dzilizzi said:


> What do you mean no second violin? If there are more than 2 violins, you have at least one second violin!


----------



## Argy Ottas

dzilizzi said:


> What do you mean no second violin? If there are more than 2 violins, you have at least one second violin!


The case is closed for ever. Thank you for your contribution.


----------



## Noeticus

I wonder what Jasper's favorite String Library is?


----------



## ism

I bet it’s yellow.


----------



## ansthenia

Futchibon said:


> No staccatos. And have people heard that there are no second violins?


Not only that, but apparently there are no Trumpet flutter tonguing articulations in Pacific strings. Jasper needs to get his shit together tbh


----------



## Casiquire

This thread has been like Forrest Gump's momma's box of chocolates for over a year now and I'm really glad all the fun flavors are in today


----------



## FrozenIcicle

There's more hype than the CSW thread


----------



## Futchibon

Casiquire said:


> This thread has been like Forrest Gump's momma's box of chocolates for over a year now and I'm really glad all the fun flavors are in today


I'm not a smart man, Jenny, but I know what a 2nd violin is!


----------



## Larbguy

Reznov981 said:


> Some info from Performance Samples on Facebook (today, May 25). Some of this is on the website and some is not.
> 
> “I'm aiming to focus back on [Pacific Solo Strings] as soon as Pacific Ensemble Strings is out, as I realized trying to do both at once would result in delays for both. Right now I've said Q3 2022 for Pacific Solo Strings and I feel confident in that as long as there are no curveballs. I realize I haven't made a dedicated web page for Pacific Solo Strings yet (being a recent development), but as far as what was recorded and is in progress (and will ideally all see the light of day in final release):
> 
> 1. Legatos (slur on cello, slur/bowchange/bowchange-port on violin)
> 2. Motion tremolos, example here:
> 3. Pizzicatos (sourced from repetitions)
> 4. Staccatos (sourced from repetitions)
> 5. Spiccatos (sourced from repetitions)
> 6. Marcatos (in the style of Pacific Ensemble Strings)
> 7. Harmonics
> 
> I think that covers it. I recorded multiple dynamics (up to 4 iirc) for all but #1, and plan to integrate them in a solo "dynamic xfade" approach I'm playing with.
> I hope this helps a bit - and above all I'm grateful for the ongoing patience as I work to wrap these up.
> Best
> JB”



WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF BROOOOO


----------



## Casiquire

Futchibon said:


> I'm not a smart man, Jenny, but I know what a 2nd violin is!


One quarter in the swear jar every time someone says those two words together in this thread. I don't have to tell you which words.

I do genuinely love so much of what we're learning in this thread though. Those solo strings are going to be killer. I wonder if there will be dynamic control in the legato patch as well though. Jasper isn't known for bad crossfades and, well, they seem unavoidable in non-phase-aligned solo strings.


----------



## Getsumen

Casiquire said:


> One quarter in the swear jar every time someone says those two words together in this thread. I don't have to tell you which words.
> 
> I do genuinely love so much of what we're learning in this thread though. Those solo strings are going to be killer. I wonder if there will be dynamic control in the legato patch as well though. Jasper isn't known for bad crossfades and, well, they seem unavoidable in non-phase-aligned solo strings.


I thought it was confirmed that the legato was one dynamic? Might be wrong on that but per the freebie being one layer, and Jasper saying everything but #1 (Legato) had like 3 dynamics or whatever I thought the implication was that it was 1 layer


----------



## Casiquire

Getsumen said:


> I thought it was confirmed that the legato was one dynamic? Might be wrong on that but per the freebie being one layer, and Jasper saying everything but #1 (Legato) had like 3 dynamics or whatever I thought the implication was that it was 1 layer


I agree that's how it all sounds, but there are other ways to give, or imitate, some control. Smart scripting, velocity controlled crescendos, filters, etc. which all have pros and cons. Or just a cleverly recorded swell to give a sense of ebb and flow


----------



## Reznov981

Getsumen said:


> I thought it was confirmed that the legato was one dynamic? Might be wrong on that but per the freebie being one layer, and Jasper saying everything but #1 (Legato) had like 3 dynamics or whatever I thought the implication was that it was 1 layer


I certainly had wondered about this too. 1 dynamic layer isn’t hugely exciting, but I suppose we’ll just have to wait and see 🙃


----------



## muziksculp

This video posted today, not sure if it is a new one


----------



## Igorianych

It's all so mind-blowingly cool that you can't even believe that it can be! When is it finally????????
Sorry, this is a cry from the heart


----------



## vanillemilch

dhmusic said:


> There's a cello feature using the cello freebie starting around :30 if anyone is interested in hearing it in context



Incredible! Mind sharing which choir and organ libraries were used in here?


----------



## Baronvonheadless

I just used it in an acoustic/folk track I produced. My good friend Sea just released their first single, proud to have recorded it. I threw the freebie cello on the track as well as paired it in octaves with solo of the sea A violin (Pretty sure, or I may have just doubled it with itself in octaves).

I also threw the Time Micro String Quintet on here doing the high drones.


----------



## Futchibon

Jasper said on his FB feed that noise reduction is now complete. Getting close!


----------



## dzilizzi

Futchibon said:


> Jasper said on his FB feed that noise reduction is now complete. Getting close!


What? Noise reduction? Are you sure this is a PS library?


----------



## Drundfunk

dzilizzi said:


> What? Noise reduction? Are you sure this is a PS library?


He probably meant he turned of the fan in his studio. Took him a few months tho, but I'm glad he found the power off button. Now that his studio is set up he finally can start working on the library. The image in my head kinda reminds me of the Breaking Bad Episode "Fly"....


----------



## dhmusic

vanillemilch said:


> Incredible! Mind sharing which choir and organ libraries were used in here?


Thank you!

For this track the foundation of the choirs is a combination of Dominus Pro and Oceania 1+2. Then there are a bunch of SATB soloists layered across the stereo field.

The organs are all from OT Tallinn.

You can find the main thread here: 
*Elden Ring - "Lichdragon Fortissax" by Yoshimi Kudo* ​


----------



## Eptesicus

Markrs said:


> My thoughts too. Before Pacific was out of my price range, this price beings it back into consideration.


Same. Only just realised the big price drop.

This brings it much more back into consideration. Pretty excited about it now.


----------



## jamwerks

Guess he read my post about how he should be handling the pricing!! I'd usually just send a bill for consulting fees, but in this case I'd exceptionally accept a free copy of the library instead!


----------



## I like music

jamwerks said:


> Guess he read my post about how he should be handling the pricing!! I'd usually just send a bill for consulting fees, but in this case I'd exceptionally accept a free copy of the library instead!


Is it too late for me to buy _something_ from Performance Samples and therefore qualify for that loyalty discount?
Is there a best route here for people who don't own anything PS?


----------



## davidson

I like music said:


> Is it too late for me to buy _something_ from Performance Samples and therefore qualify for that loyalty discount?
> Is there a best route here for people who don't own anything PS?


Errr, your only option would be to buy vista for $349, so you'd up up paying $200 more than just buying at the intro price.


----------



## I like music

davidson said:


> Errr, your only option would be to buy vista for $349, so you'd up up paying $200 more than just buying at the intro price.


I came so close to buying Vista when it was on for dirt cheap a few months ago. I wish I had...

Thank you for replying.


----------



## davidson

Well if it makes you feel any better, you'd have ended up paying the same for pacific as what you'll get it for now anyway. True you'd have also owned vista, but I'm thinking vista would be just taking up space on your drive once pacific comes along.


----------



## I like music

davidson said:


> Well if it makes you feel any better, you'd have ended up paying the same for pacific as what you'll get it for now anyway. True you'd have also owned vista, but I'm thinking vista would be just taking up space on your drive once pacific comes along.


Ahhh yes. That's a good point. I'm tempted even at the non-loyalty price


----------



## dzilizzi

I like music said:


> Ahhh yes. That's a good point. I'm tempted even at the non-loyalty price


Once you buy one section, you will qualify for the loyalty on the next sections, if that helps.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Why would a chamber string library be taking up space once it’s symphonic counterpart comes a long?


----------



## doctoremmet

Baronvonheadless said:


> Why would a chamber string library be taking up space once it’s symphonic counterpart comes a long?


I was wondering the same thing. It’s like saying, don’t buy Spitfire Apassionata if you already own SSO?


----------



## davidson

doctoremmet said:


> I was wondering the same thing. It’s like saying, don’t buy Spitfire Apassionata if you already own SSO?


This is also good advice, well done


----------



## doctoremmet

davidson said:


> This is also good advice, well done


Ah, at least we’re consistent


----------



## Casiquire

I like music said:


> Is it too late for me to buy _something_ from Performance Samples and therefore qualify for that loyalty discount?
> Is there a best route here for people who don't own anything PS?


The move seems to be to buy Vista, especially on discount. At full price though it's more expensive to get both Vista and Pacific. They're very different flavors but share a lot of characteristics so to my ears you could probably blend the two together easily. The shorts from CSS work well with Vista also. Given CSS's popularity that's an option a lot of people have. But since it's still more expensive, it's not something I'd suggest unless you particularly like the sound and expression of Vista


----------



## doctoremmet

A couple of months ago (edit: checked my order date -> March 12) Vista was on sale for $150. That was THE moment to get it and prepare at the same time for loyalty discounts. But at the current pace we may see a summer sale even before Pacific’s release?


----------



## I like music

Casiquire said:


> The move seems to be to buy Vista, especially on discount. At full price though it's more expensive to get both Vista and Pacific. They're very different flavors but share a lot of characteristics so to my ears you could probably blend the two together easily. The shorts from CSS work well with Vista also. Given CSS's popularity that's an option a lot of people have. But since it's still more expensive, it's not something I'd suggest unless you particularly like the sound and expression of Vista


Aye, I have css and nearly bought vista because for some lines I can imagine it adding another dimension to css. 

I hadn't written enough music to justify another library. I'm kind of glad I didn't buy I was because now I am less tempted by pacific (owing to not having a loyalty discount) 

GAS averted (reluctantly) 

I'm sure pacific will be on sale in a couple of years so will pick it up then!


----------



## Raphioli

doctoremmet said:


> But at the current pace we may see a summer sale even before Pacific’s release?


Don't jinx it lol


----------



## Casiquire

doctoremmet said:


> But at the current pace we may see a summer sale even before Pacific’s release?


Obligatory "You forgot to mention WHICH summer!"


----------



## Raphioli

Casiquire said:


> Obligatory "You forgot to mention WHICH summer!"


----------



## Eptesicus

doctoremmet said:


> A couple of months ago (edit: checked my order date -> March 12) Vista was on sale for $150. That was THE moment to get it and prepare at the same time for loyalty discounts. But at the current pace we may see a summer sale even before Pacific’s release?


I got it for $179 near end of last year in anticipation for Pacific as it was supposed to be out soon after. If they have an even deeper sale on Vista (ie even under $150) before Pacific's release i will probably be a bit peeved as i primarily bought it to get the loyalty discount on Pacific.

The combination of ever increasing sales and pushed back release times has made this slightly awkward/irritating and difficult to make any sort of informed decision on when/what to buy.


----------



## muziksculp

Next week ?


----------



## axb312

muziksculp said:


> Next week ?


?


----------



## Drundfunk

muziksculp said:


> Next week ?


There will be a next week. Yes.


----------



## Loerpert

Drundfunk said:


> There will be a next week. Yes.


You never know. Carpe Diem!


----------



## Drundfunk

Loerpert said:


> You never know. Carpe Diem!


Cave canem!


----------



## Noeticus

I thought "Next Week" was the name of 'anotha' String Library.


----------



## ansthenia

Drundfunk said:


> There will be a next week. Yes.


I've heard that next week has been delayed


----------



## Batuer

ansthenia said:


> I've heard that next week has been delayed


to……next year


----------



## muziksculp

WOW... So much pessimism on this thread


----------



## Baronvonheadless

There's a cool little freebie on jaspers Instagram Story to download. Non-pacific but performance samples.


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Baronvonheadless said:


> There's a cool little freebie on jaspers Instagram Story to download. Non-pacific but performance samples.


His account is private


----------



## jazzman7

FrozenIcicle said:


> His account is private


Maybe he'll open it up...next week


----------



## axb312

Baronvonheadless said:


> There's a cool little freebie on jaspers Instagram Story to download. Non-pacific but performance samples.


What freebie?


----------



## muziksculp

Maybe this thread's topic should be changed to Performance Samples : Freebies.


----------



## Futchibon

From Jasper's FB:

Hi all - here is an update I’ve been meaning to post on Pacific & misc news:
After a chaotically busy first half of 2022, Pacific Strings is in the final stages and beta testers have reviewed patches for everything except legatos.
Pacific Strings’ intro sale period will last 8-9 weeks, allowing time to evaluate, listen, and decide if it’s your cup of tea. Blake plans to do a walkthrough, although I’m trying to get him finalized legato patches before he does that.
I have gotten a lot of messages and emails about the Con Moto modules, Caspian, and Fluid Shorts (I). Although I never originally intended to bring them back, I’ve marinaded a lot on this. By popular demand, they’ll be re-introduced to the catalogue. Their re-introduction will coincide roughly with the release of Pacific Strings sometime in the next several weeks (per my current plan — fingers crossed no last-minute issues). Vista will also go on a very modest sale when Pacific Strings is released. No other sales currently planned for this summer, as my focuses are on getting Pacific Strings out and then returning primary focus to finishing the remaining Pacific sections - solo strings, percussion, woodwinds, and brass.
I’m seeking a couple testers for Pacific Strings who are Logic users and have some schedule flexibility around roughly July 5-12 area for some final testing. It would be particularly helpful if you have had odd issues with Kontakt libraries in Logic in the past. You can msg me on FB if interested.


----------



## Baronvonheadless




----------



## Getsumen

Jasper did mention he had a large hybrid projects in the work for a while, I wonder if this is one of the first inklings of it?

The patch really reminds me of taste (in a good way). Modwheel adding in more elements is pretty neat


----------



## dunamisstudio

So question now is what to get? With new stuff coming out, old stuff returning.
I got bunch of VSL Synchron, Spitfire AIR libraries, and Audio Imperia if that helps.


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Pacific Strings is in the final stages and beta testers have reviewed patches for everything except legatos.


The VI-Control Legato Police needs to be on High Alert.


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> The VI-Control Legato Police needs to be on High Alert.


I thought you were acting as their High Inquisitor?


----------



## Batuer

Futchibon said:


> July 5-12 area for some final testing


So, not releasing in this month.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Futchibon said:


> From Jasper's FB:
> 
> Hi all - here is an update I’ve been meaning to post on Pacific & misc news:
> After a chaotically busy first half of 2022, Pacific Strings is in the final stages and beta testers have reviewed patches for everything except legatos.
> Pacific Strings’ intro sale period will last 8-9 weeks, allowing time to evaluate, listen, and decide if it’s your cup of tea. Blake plans to do a walkthrough, although I’m trying to get him finalized legato patches before he does that.
> I have gotten a lot of messages and emails about the Con Moto modules, Caspian, and Fluid Shorts (I). Although I never originally intended to bring them back, I’ve marinaded a lot on this. By popular demand, they’ll be re-introduced to the catalogue. Their re-introduction will coincide roughly with the release of Pacific Strings sometime in the next several weeks (per my current plan — fingers crossed no last-minute issues). Vista will also go on a very modest sale when Pacific Strings is released. No other sales currently planned for this summer, as my focuses are on getting Pacific Strings out and then returning primary focus to finishing the remaining Pacific sections - solo strings, percussion, woodwinds, and brass.
> I’m seeking a couple testers for Pacific Strings who are Logic users and have some schedule flexibility around roughly July 5-12 area for some final testing. It would be particularly helpful if you have had odd issues with Kontakt libraries in Logic in the past. You can msg me on FB if interested.


Thanks for posting this here  

I’m excited he’s bringing Caspian back. I never got to buy it earlier.


----------



## axb312

Futchibon said:


> From Jasper's FB:
> 
> Hi all - here is an update I’ve been meaning to post on Pacific & misc news:
> After a chaotically busy first half of 2022, Pacific Strings is in the final stages and beta testers have reviewed patches for everything except legatos.
> Pacific Strings’ intro sale period will last 8-9 weeks, allowing time to evaluate, listen, and decide if it’s your cup of tea. Blake plans to do a walkthrough, although I’m trying to get him finalized legato patches before he does that.
> I have gotten a lot of messages and emails about the Con Moto modules, Caspian, and Fluid Shorts (I). Although I never originally intended to bring them back, I’ve marinaded a lot on this. By popular demand, they’ll be re-introduced to the catalogue. Their re-introduction will coincide roughly with the release of Pacific Strings sometime in the next several weeks (per my current plan — fingers crossed no last-minute issues). Vista will also go on a very modest sale when Pacific Strings is released. No other sales currently planned for this summer, as my focuses are on getting Pacific Strings out and then returning primary focus to finishing the remaining Pacific sections - solo strings, percussion, woodwinds, and brass.
> I’m seeking a couple testers for Pacific Strings who are Logic users and have some schedule flexibility around roughly July 5-12 area for some final testing. It would be particularly helpful if you have had odd issues with Kontakt libraries in Logic in the past. You can msg me on FB if interested.


Awesome that Blakus is doing a walkthrough btw...


----------



## muziksculp

I don't have Con Moto, but looking forward to getting Pacific Strings for sure, and that will also give me the additional Solo Strings when they are ready. I wonder how useful, or complementing Con Moto is going to be to Pacific Strings ? I guess we will know more when Pacific Strings are finally released next month, with no delays that would bump it up to August.


----------



## doctoremmet

How do you survive without it, one wonders


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> I don't have Con Moto, but looking forward to getting Pacific Strings for sure, and that will also give me the additional Solo Strings when they are ready. I wonder how useful, or complementing Con Moto is going to be to Pacific Strings ? I guess we will know more when Pacific Strings are finally released next month, with no delays that would bump it up to August.


I'm so glad he's re-releasing Con Moto! I LOVE IT!!!! It's one of my top libraries, so I look at Pacific as fleshing out those basic violin, viola and cello patches.


----------



## RemyB85

from the website : 

*PROJECT STATUS UPDATE (July 2, 2022): Pacific Strings is now in beta stage and is expected to be release-ready in the next weeks (2nd half of July). Pacific Strings’ intro sale is planned to last 8-9 weeks.

Youhou!*


----------



## jazzman7

Right when I go on vacation of course! I'll have to keep tabs on the reaction here till I get back


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Baronvonheadless

@muziksculp you better write and post the sickest thing I’ve ever heard the DAY pacific comes out.  

I want it bad but I don’t know if anyone wants it more than you  🤟🏼


----------



## muziksculp

Baronvonheadless said:


> @muziksculp you better write and post the sickest thing I’ve ever heard the DAY pacific comes out.
> 
> I want it bad but I don’t know if anyone wants it more than you  🤟🏼


I have a feeling I'm not alone craving for Pacific Strings to be released.


----------



## muziksculp

3K Replies
223K Views


----------



## Baronvonheadless

muziksculp said:


> I have a feeling I'm not alone craving for Pacific Strings to be released.


You’re not!


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> I have a feeling I'm not alone craving for Pacific Strings to be released.


Right there with you


----------



## muziksculp

I hope they don't run out of Pacific Strings Supplies.


----------



## doctoremmet

So… a quick Con Moto comeback sale would be appreciated.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> So… a quick Con Moto comeback sale would be appreciated.


YES ! Please


----------



## ansthenia

New update from Jasper's facebook -

"I accidentally deleted all my Pacific Strings files it's all gone, my bad lol"


----------



## RemyB85

kind of remind me of the hype generated by the release of BBCSO back in the days ...


----------



## doctoremmet

RemyB85 said:


> kind of remind me of the hype generated by the release of BBCSO back in the days ...


I hope the backlash is just as good. VI Control excels at both. Looking forward to “noise” and “no second violins” comments in particular.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> I hope the backlash is just as good. VI Control excels at both. Looking forward to “noise” and “no second violins” comments in particular.


LOL.. and don't forget the Legato quality comments.


----------



## doctoremmet

I bet something’s wrong with the room as well, it may sound either “too wet”, “muddy” or both. And why aren’t there any IRs of the room, because how are we going to mix it with brand X’s brass?


----------



## muziksculp

OH... and will it have keyswitches ?


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> OH... and will it have keyswitches ?


Yes? Ridiculous!
No? The horror


----------



## David Kudell

muziksculp said:


> I have a feeling I'm not alone craving for Pacific Strings to be released.


I really hope it lives up to your expectations! I’ll be honest, I’m a little worried the day after the release will start your “When can we expect an update to fix Pacific strings” posts. 😂


----------



## muziksculp

David Kudell said:


> I really hope it lives up to your expectations! I’ll be honest, I’m a little worried the day after the release will start your “When can we expect an update to fix Pacific strings” posts. 😂


LOL... I promise that won't be happening.


----------



## doctoremmet

We may need to divert his attention to another string library under development?


----------



## BL

doctoremmet said:


> We may need to divert his attention to another string library under development?


Voyage lol


----------



## doctoremmet

Wait. Do we have a shameless Voyage hype thread yet, and if so why isn’t it more active?


----------



## Loerpert

muziksculp said:


> The VI-Control Legato Police needs to be on High Alert.


----------



## doctoremmet

David Kudell said:


> I really hope it lives up to your expectations! I’ll be honest, I’m a little worried the day after the release will start your “When can we expect an update to fix Pacific strings” posts. 😂


Okay, David. Just making sure we’ll all bump this thread as soon as Pacific hits, and @ mention Muziksculp, and we should be good.






Performance Samples VOYAGE - Discussion!


Yessss!




vi-control.net


----------



## muziksculp

Let's not forget that Paicific is a full orchestra, not just Strings !


----------



## Casiquire

To be fair, BBCSO is massively loved here. I think Pacific will be too.


----------



## I like music

"Legato's too bumpy"
"Legato doesn't have enough of a bump"
"Legato doesn't mean what you think it means"
There. I saved you at least 5 pages of discussion.


----------



## doctoremmet

Besides, people are way too hung up on legato. It’s really overrated.


----------



## David Kudell

Wait, do we even need legato? I thought it was determined that ensemble patches are good enough. 😂


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> Besides, people are way too hung up on legato. It’s really overrated.


Jasper has been polishing the Pacific Legatos making sure no one here complaints about them. So, rest assured the Legatos will be superb, and amazing. Now, let's move on to discuss Voyage Strings.


----------



## FinGael

doctoremmet said:


> Yes? Ridiculous!
> No? The horror


Heard a rumour that they might have RKS - RandomKeySwitches. You'll never know when they appear or disappear. It is a fairly exciting feature, although it is not nice to get stuck with a staccato for 20 minutes when you are trying to write your soaring John Williams -lines.

If that is not enough for you brave and bold ones, there is the "Advanced level" -button that activates the RKSTCHKETTA -mode - RandomKeySwitchesThatChangeKeysEveryTimeTheyAppear.

Oh wait. Maybe it was the Strings from Hell and not Pacific. We'll see. Or not.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Sorry to disappoint most of you guys here, but I don't think there is going to be legato in pacific brass 😜 plus it's a2 sections only. Voyage on the other hand is going to be massive, I think... pacific strings and winds (I think flutes and clarinets only though,maybe I'm mistaken...) will have legatos and are going to be superb for sure!


----------



## Noeticus

Pacific Strings = more dynamic layers than ever before!!!

I watershed moment.


----------



## fan455

Since Pacific has so many dynamic layers, is it still necessary to crossfade between dynamic layers, which might add some more comb filtering effect?


----------



## muziksculp

fan455 said:


> Since Pacific has so many dynamic layers, is it still necessary to crossfade between dynamic layers, which might add some comb filtering effect?


Here we go, and it's not even released yet


----------



## Casiquire

fan455 said:


> Since Pacific has so many dynamic layers, is it still necessary to crossfade between dynamic layers, which might add some more comb filtering effect?


I don't think the number of layers changes it, that's the current best smooth transition option we have. It's unavoidable for the time being


----------



## Baronvonheadless

doctoremmet said:


> Besides, people are way too hung up on legato. It’s really overrated.


Personally I’m WAY more into affogato than legato.


----------



## Futchibon

Noeticus said:


> Pacific Strings = more dynamic layers than ever before!!!
> 
> I watershed moment.


That’s unusual for you to mention dynamics! 😜


Noeticus said:


> Since Pacific Strings will deliver LOTS of Dynamic Layers, the price is now even more amazing!
> 
> Golly gee!





Noeticus said:


> The Dynamics of this library make it a must have library, as no company that I know of offers anything close.





Noeticus said:


> Jasper is so amazingly talented that if he spends his time away from this forum it is fine with me, as he is currently about to release a library that FINALLY has LOTS of DYNAMICS!!!





Noeticus said:


> By using different dynamic layers from the Violins, you can in essence create your own second Violins.





Noeticus said:


> Since no one offers up to 14 Dynamic Layers (on their Spiccatos), I would say that Pacific will be well worth the price.
> 
> The free demos are amazing!





Noeticus said:


> PACIFIC will truly delivery so much quality, and DYNAMICS, that it will be a "real" game changer, a real water shed moment, and yes, a friggin' paradigmatic wow wow!!!





Noeticus said:


> What really needs to be considered is that with all the dynamic layers you end up with the ability to have a second set of Violins without having to use the transposition trick, as you can just use a different set of dynamic layers for the second section of violins.
> 
> Of course, it would be nice if it was scripted that way for easy use, as I would prefer pushing a virtual button to make it all happen.





Noeticus said:


> Bring forth the Dynamic Layers!!!





Noeticus said:


> "Do not despise my commands because I want more dynamic layers!!!"





Noeticus said:


> The dynamics are so mind bendingly good that at first I could not hear them because I had my cc slider down and the volume too low on my system.
> 
> When I dialed it all up, I was shocked to be able to raise and lower the string players bow pressure volume so smoothly that it was basically perfect!!!
> 
> Truly what I have always wanted. Oh, time for some virtual wine...
> 
> 🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷





Noeticus said:


> A few weeks ago, I downloaded and tried the free sordino longs demo, and the DYNAMICS are a dream come true.
> 
> When Pacific releases I think it will be the first string library to offer lots of dynamic layers, as in, sometimes up to 14 dynamic layers on the Spiccatos for example.  Wow!


----------



## fan455

Casiquire said:


> I don't think the number of layers changes it, that's the current best smooth transition option we have. It's unavoidable for the time being


Yeah, and better phase alignment will make better crossfade.


----------



## Blakus

Wait... you guys don't have Pacific Strings yet??


----------



## Blakus

Waiting for JB to finalize legatos, trying to hurry him up I swear! This library is juicy


----------



## Futchibon

Blakus said:


> Waiting for JB to finalize legatos, trying to hurry him up I swear! This library is juicy


Can't wait for your walkthrough


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Blakus said:


> Wait... you guys don't have Pacific Strings yet??


Easy pal. Respect. But easy.


----------



## jazzman7

Blakus said:


> Wait... you guys don't have Pacific Strings yet??


Hall of fame great post here!


----------



## muziksculp

Pacific 16 Violins Legato 'Editing'

The white text on the pic Reads :

"grateful that pacific strings is on the final stretch at long last"

" I LEARNED A LOT OF NEW THINGS ABOUT LEGATO IN PARTICULAR WITH THIS LIBRARY"

" AND THE LEGATOS ARE BUILT TO BE REMENISCENT OF THE MOVEMENT IN SOME OF MY PRIVATE LIBRARIES YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD"


----------



## dzilizzi

It says LEGATO, but is it really boxes.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Baronvonheadless said:


> Personally I’m WAY more into affogato than legato.


Am I THAT STUPID that I Google searched it as a music articulation?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Legato has 5 dynamic layers, not 14, right? So the same as vista?


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Argy Ottas said:


> Am I THAT STUPID that I Google searched it as a music articulation?


Haha! I’m sure you just haven’t had your coffee yet! Or gelato.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Legatos are like, sooooooooo 2016. 400 + mic positions are the new Legatos......

I swear 50% of us here will have "Legato" as an epitaph on our headstones!


----------



## Loerpert

What would affogato be in articulation form 🤔. Probably some icy sul pont hyper tremolo strings.


----------



## gst98

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Legato has 5 dynamic layers, not 14, right? So the same as vista?


vista has 4


----------



## dzilizzi

Loerpert said:


> What would affogato be in articulation form 🤔. Probably some icy sul pont hyper tremolo strings.


Probably some SFX like the seagulls or whales articulations I have on other libraries. The seagulls are on OT's Igudesman's library. The whales are on a cello textures library @Bee_Abney _ forced_ me to buy. It was major peer pressure and arm twisting. 

I think her exact words were "I like this!" I mean, what could I do? The whales are pretty cool though.


----------



## Bee_Abney

dzilizzi said:


> Probably some SFX like the seagulls or whales articulations I have on other libraries. The seagulls are on OT's Igudesman's library. The whales are on a cello textures library @Bee_Abney _ forced_ me to buy. It was major peer pressure and arm twisting.
> 
> I think her exact words were "I like this!" I mean, what could I do? The whales are pretty cool though.


I'm _so_ awful!


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Loerpert said:


> What would affogato be in articulation form 🤔. Probably some icy sul pont hyper tremolo strings.


Nah affogato in articulation form would be the mixed flute chords from BHCT when you use the mod wheel so they go from blooming fluttering bliss to full chord. Like the peak when that sweet hit of sugar & caffeine come correct, in full form.


----------



## muziksculp

Lots of creative compositions are being posted in text form on this thread lately. Could it be due to the Pacific excitement ?


----------



## ism

dzilizzi said:


> The whales are on a cello textures library @Bee_Abney _ forced_ me to buy.


See, this is the kind of thing we need to see more of if we're to call ourselves a real community.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Baronvonheadless said:


> Nah affogato in articulation form would be the mixed flute chords from BHCT when you use the mod wheel so they go from blooming fluttering bliss to full chord. Like the peak when that sweet hit of sugar & caffeine come correct, in full form.


What I have done...


----------



## MelodicAdagio

doctoremmet said:


> Besides, people are way too hung up on legato. It’s really overrated.


I've often thought you could take a real orchestra recording and post it here, saying it was masterfully programmed using samples, and many replies would be along the lines of, "Well, it is very well done, but the legato transitions really need some work."


----------



## Casiquire

MelodicAdagio said:


> I've often thought you could take a real orchestra recording and post it here, saying it was masterfully programmed using samples, and many replies would be along the lines of, "Well, it is very well done, but the legatos really need some work."


That's not just speculation--people have done blind tests here with live recordings snuck in! It can be very tough to tell the difference. I can openly admit that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a live piano and a very well-done sampled one


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

MelodicAdagio said:


> I've often thought you could take a real orchestra recording and post it here, saying it was masterfully programmed using samples, and many replies would be along the lines of, "Well, it is very well done, but the legatos really need some work."


I've actually listened to CDs of classical music suddenly thinking "that legato ain't too convincing"


----------



## BL

muziksculp said:


> Pacific 16 Violins Legato 'Editing'
> 
> The white text on the pic Reads :
> 
> "grateful that pacific strings is on the final stretch at long last"
> 
> " I LEARNED A LOT OF NEW THINGS ABOUT LEGATO IN PARTICULAR WITH THIS LIBRARY"
> 
> " AND THE LEGATOS ARE BUILT TO BE REMENISCENT OF THE MOVEMENT IN SOME OF MY PRIVATE LIBRARIES YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD"


If you zoom in even closer...


----------



## Futchibon

Argy Ottas said:


> Am I THAT STUPID that I Google searched it as a music articulation?


It’s not real affogato unless you add alcohol. Add enough and things start to get slurred…instant legato!


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Baileys for life!


----------



## Futchibon

I think we should all play a drinking game until Pacific releases. Bailey's Affogato is preferable but any alcoholic beverage will suffice.

If you mention 2nd violins, you take a shot.
If you mention noise, you take a shot.
If @Noeticus mentions dynamics, he takes a shot!
If @muziksculp mentions release dates/updates/you can never have enough strings libraries, he takes a shot!


----------



## Saxer

Futchibon said:


> I think we should all play a drinking game until Pacific releases. Bailey's Affogato is preferable but any alcoholic beverage will suffice.
> 
> If you mention 2nd violins, you take a shot.
> If you mention noise, you take a shot.
> If @Noeticus mentions dynamics, he takes a shot!
> If @muziksculp mentions release dates/updates/you can never have enough strings libraries, he takes a shot!


Three shots for everyone for every mentioned legato!


----------



## AndyP

Futchibon said:


> I think we should all play a drinking game until Pacific releases. Bailey's Affogato is preferable but any alcoholic beverage will suffice.
> 
> If you mention 2nd violins, you take a shot.
> If you mention noise, you take a shot.
> If @Noeticus mentions dynamics, he takes a shot!
> If @muziksculp mentions release dates/updates/you can never have enough strings libraries, he takes a shot!


Have I ever mentioned that I want to open a Liqueur store? VI users get a discount of course!


----------



## Bee_Abney

I just got drunk off the last few posts alone.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Futchibon said:


> I think we should all play a drinking game until Pacific releases. Bailey's Affogato is preferable but any alcoholic beverage will suffice.
> 
> If you mention 2nd violins, you take a shot.
> If you mention noise, you take a shot.
> If @Noeticus mentions dynamics, he takes a shot!
> If @muziksculp mentions release dates/updates/you can never have enough strings libraries, he takes a shot!


This thread after a while...


----------



## Noeticus

Futchibon said:


> I think we should all play a drinking game until Pacific releases. Bailey's Affogato is preferable but any alcoholic beverage will suffice.
> 
> If you mention 2nd violins, you take a shot.
> If you mention noise, you take a shot.
> If @Noeticus mentions dynamics, he takes a shot!
> If @muziksculp mentions release dates/updates/you can never have enough strings libraries, he takes a shot!


Dynamics 🍸 Dynamics 🍸


----------



## muziksculp

"_returning soon by popular demand_" .

I'm guessing this is referring to *Con Moto* ?


----------



## doctoremmet

Assumed right


----------



## Zanshin

Looks like Vista is back on sale too? $289 until through August 26th, 2022.


----------



## doctoremmet

Zanshin said:


> Looks like Vista is back on sale too? $289 until through August 26th, 2022.


Not the best sales price though. But Jasper did mention it was going to be a “modest” one.


----------



## Casiquire

doctoremmet said:


> Not the best sales price though. But Jasper did mention it was going to be a “modest” one.


Still worth it for people who want both Vista and Pacific


----------



## Zanshin

doctoremmet said:


> Not the best sales price though. But Jasper did mention it was going to be a “modest” one.


Yeah I can't remember what I paid, but I bought it before that time it was $179. 



Casiquire said:


> Still worth it for people who want both Vista and Pacific


Agreed.


----------



## doctoremmet

Casiquire said:


> Still worth it for people who want both Vista and Pacific


Absolutely.


----------



## Loerpert

If money isn't a limiting factor in ones life, the amount of owned string libraries should neither be.

Also, libraries should always contain violins 6*4/12


----------



## doctoremmet

I’m in a multiverse branch where this is true, except string libraries are woodwind libraries and everyone has hotdogs for fingers.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> I’m in a multiverse branch where this is true, except string libraries are woodwind libraries and everyone has hotdogs for fingers.


Aaaaand... take a drink everytime Doc posts something like that...


----------



## jbuhler

Baronvonheadless said:


> Nah affogato in articulation form would be the mixed flute chords from BHCT when you use the mod wheel so they go from blooming fluttering bliss to full chord. Like the peak when that sweet hit of sugar & caffeine come correct, in full form.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the only library that has the full range of affogato articulations is N.


----------



## Bee_Abney

jbuhler said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the only library that has the full range of affogato articulations is N.


I have heard rumours of another, much older library, with a huge number of articulations of affogato. I believe it may have been called Alpha.

Unfortunately, this was before the invention of computers powerful enough to cope with velocity layers, round robins and... and...

LEGATO! It HAD no legato!

So let us not speak of it again.


----------



## dzilizzi

jbuhler said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the only library that has the full range of affogato articulations is N.


N has everything. Best library EVER. If only it worked.


----------



## AndyP

Hopefully this is not too offensive ...


----------



## Bee_Abney

dzilizzi said:


> N has everything. Best library EVER. If only it worked.


Hey! N is perfect. It's your face that doesn't work!

(Huh! That was witty! There'll be no coming back from that!)


----------



## dzilizzi

Bee_Abney said:


> Hey! N is perfect. It's your face that doesn't work!
> 
> (Huh! That was witty! There'll be no coming back from that!)


Have we been playing the game too much? 

It's not even noon here, though I am on vacation. Having just gotten over COVID followed by a nasty stomach bug, I have to pass on the game.  It really sucks to be sick on my vacation, even if I don't go anywhere. Frou frou tropical drinks by the beach sound really good right now.


----------



## Bee_Abney

dzilizzi said:


> Have we been playing the game too much?
> 
> It's not even noon here, though I am on vacation. Having just gotten over COVID followed by a nasty stomach bug, I have to pass on the game.  It really sucks to be sick on my vacation, even if I don't go anywhere. Frou frou tropical drinks by the beach sound really good right now.


Take it easy and I wish you better days!


----------



## dzilizzi

Bee_Abney said:


> Take it easy and I wish you better days!


Thank you! Today is the first day in 3 weeks I don't feel the need to constantly cough, so things are looking up!


----------



## Bee_Abney

dzilizzi said:


> Thank you! Today is the first day in 3 weeks I don't feel the need to constantly cough, so things are looking up!


That is a huge start! I hope you don't have too much lingering fatigue. And that you can both taste and smell your tropical drinks.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

How many libraries have y’all bought drunk?


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Baronvonheadless said:


> How many libraries have y’all bought drunk?


I spent almost all my money on drinks, getting only a long hangover in return. I hate myself! And I could compose, by the way, good music with what I have, if not for this!


----------



## Loerpert

Baronvonheadless said:


> How many libraries have y’all bought drunk?


Excellent question!


----------



## dzilizzi

Bee_Abney said:


> That is a huge start! I hope you don't have too much lingering fatigue. And that you can both taste and smell your tropical drinks.


Yes, I was vaccinated, so fortunately, it was a very bad head cold. But nothing major. Tired and foggy brained. 

Hmmm. I have spicy rum and mango juice. Will that make a good frou frou drink?


----------



## dzilizzi

Baronvonheadless said:


> How many libraries have y’all bought drunk?


My biggest mistakes were sales while I was traveling and couldn't really listen to the walkthroughs so a mixture of FOMO/everyone else loves it and I buy. Then I find out, though it may be a good library, I will never use it. 

I'm a cheap drunk. I get giggly after one drink and fall asleep after 2. So I don't buy much while drunk.


----------



## Bee_Abney

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, I was vaccinated, so fortunately, it was a very bad head cold. But nothing major. Tired and foggy brained.
> 
> Hmmm. I have spicy rum and mango juice. Will that make a good frou frou drink?


Keep sipping. It's tasting frou frouier by the glass!


----------



## Ricgus3

Affogato? Is that the Legato strings you cannot afford?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Ricgus3 said:


> Affogato? Is that the Legato strings you cannot afford?


The ones you can't afford to be without!


----------



## Vik

MelodicAdagio said:


> I've often thought you could take a real orchestra recording and post it here, saying it was masterfully programmed using samples, and many replies would be along the lines of, "Well, it is very well done, but the legato transitions really need some work."


That's possible, but when someone here actually put in a recording of a real orchestra into a library comparison without mentioning it clearly, several of us, including me, were thinking 'wow – this is _really_ a lot better than the others'.  I didn't really use my brain, and thought Amsterdam Sinfonietta was a new library.


----------



## jamessy

Just went to the website and now I have this strange urge to spend money


----------



## Futchibon




----------



## dzilizzi

Futchibon said:


>


This would be more exciting if I didn't already have it..... but it is nice he brought it back. Do you need it all to get the discount on the strings?


----------



## Futchibon

dzilizzi said:


> This would be more exciting if I didn't already have it..... but it is nice he brought it back. Do you need it all to get the discount on the strings?


No, either Vista or one of the Con Moto sections


----------



## muziksculp

The price of the full Con Moto Strings even with the sale price is kind of steep. It would be nice if there was a full bundle additional discount price, or could I have missed it ? I think the Con Moto Strings Sections are priced separately, Vlns A, Vlns B, Violas, Celli, Basses. But not all together as a bundle.

Which means I would have to purchase 5 libraries one at a time, to get the full Con Moto Strings. Sale Price for the Con Moto full collection is $475.


----------



## muziksculp

I think I might just wait for Pacific Strings, and I get Pacific Solo Strings free when available. 

This is a much more attractive deal than Con Moto, plus offers a lot more in terms of articulations.


----------



## Daren Audio

muziksculp said:


> The price of the full Con Moto Strings even with the sale price is kind of steep. It would be nice if there was a full bundle additional discount price, or could I have missed it ? I think the Con Moto Strings Sections are priced separately, Vlns A, Vlns B, Violas, Celli, Basses. But not all together as a bundle.
> 
> Which means I would have to purchase 5 libraries one at a time, to get the full Con Moto Strings.


I would agree. That's $475 (steep sale price) for all 5 Con Moto libraries.


----------



## wlinart

Damn, buying con moto basses for $49 gives a discount off $150 for pacific. That's a great deal


----------



## muziksculp

Daren Audio said:


> I would agree. That's $475 (steep sale price) for all 5 Con Moto libraries.


Yup. But I was reading that Vlns A, and Vlns B are not meant to be used as a traditional Vlns 1, and Vlns 2 Sections. So, I guess one can choose to get only one of them.


----------



## muziksculp

wlinart said:


> Dam, buying con moto basses for $49 gives a discount off $150 for pacific. That's a great deal


Isn't Pacific Strings around $300. IIRC ? so you can get Pacific Strings for $150 by purchasing Con Moto Basses at $49. ! where did you see this discount for Pacific Strings ?


----------



## Ricgus3

muziksculp said:


> The price of the full Con Moto Strings even with the sale price is kind of steep. It would be nice if there was a full bundle additional discount price, or could I have missed it ? I think the Con Moto Strings Sections are priced separately, Vlns A, Vlns B, Violas, Celli, Basses. But not all together as a bundle.
> 
> Which means I would have to purchase 5 libraries one at a time, to get the full Con Moto Strings.



I thought the same looking at the prices. Very steep for the whole package


----------



## muziksculp

Ricgus3 said:


> I thought the same looking at the prices. Very steep for the whole package


Yes, especially given the much more attractive price of Pacific Strings with Pacific Solo Strings for $300.


----------



## wlinart

muziksculp said:


> Isn't Pacific Strings around $300. IIRC ? so you can get Pacific Strings for $150 by purchasing Con Moto Basses at $49. ! where did you see this discount for Pacific Strings ?


$300 is the loyalty price, which if you don't already have something from performance samples, you don't get. But in that case buying con moto basses get's the same discount. So $300 instead of $450


----------



## muziksculp

i.e. Vista Strings sale price is $289. 

I wonder what's makes Con Moto so much more pricey than Vista ?


----------



## muziksculp

wlinart said:


> $300 is the loyalty price, which if you don't already have something from performance samples, you don't get. But in that case buying con moto basses get's the same discount. So $300 instead of $450


Oh.. I see. Thanks. 

I already have Vista.


----------



## Ricgus3

muziksculp said:


> i.e. Vista Strings sale price is $289.
> 
> I wonder what's makes Con Moto so much more pricey than Vista ?


What is the difference between con motor and vista?


----------



## Daren Audio

muziksculp said:


> Isn't Pacific Strings around $300. IIRC ? so you can get Pacific Strings for $150 by purchasing Con Moto Basses at $49. ! where did you see this discount for Pacific Strings ?


It's 449 intro price. If you get (any) Con Moto, that would knock it down to $299 intro loyalty pricing.


----------



## muziksculp

Ricgus3 said:


> What is the difference between con motor and vista?


I think Vista is Fingered-Legato, Moto is Bowed-Legato


----------



## Alden Hill

wlinart said:


> Damn, buying con moto basses for $49 gives a discount off $150 for pacific. That's a great deal


You read my mind!😄


----------



## Getsumen

wlinart said:


> Damn, buying con moto basses for $49 gives a discount off $150 for pacific. That's a great deal


I'm sincerely hoping he doesn't change the policy because I just purchased it for the sole reason of the pacific discount...

Crossing my fingers!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Getsumen said:


> I'm sincerely hoping he doesn't change the policy because I just purchased it for the sole reason of the pacific discount...
> 
> Crossing my fingers!


can anyone confirm this? I'd buy the basses in a heartbeat if it meant i could get pacific on a loyalty discount...


----------



## odod

Blakus said:


> Wait... you guys don't have Pacific Strings yet??


My poor wallet is crying now ahhaaha


----------



## Vik

Why the exactly the basses? Violin A/B and the cello sound great.


----------



## Casiquire

Ricgus3 said:


> What is the difference between con motor and vista?


Listen to a couple demos and it should get very clear, very fast. They sound quite different


----------



## FinGael

Ricgus3 said:


> What is the difference between con motor and vista?


Vista has the vowels I and A, Con moto relies on O's.


----------



## JGRaynaud

Blakus said:


> Waiting for JB to finalize legatos, trying to hurry him up I swear! This library is juicy


Yep. I tried all the articulations too (apart from the legatos). I can confirm it is juicy. It's gonna be my main base for strings in my template, that's for sure.


----------



## sumskilz

NeonMediaKJT said:


> can anyone confirm this? I'd buy the basses in a heartbeat if it meant i could get pacific on a loyalty discount...


Well, it says on the Performance Samples website:


> *Pacific – Strings*: in order to qualify for the loyalty intro price for this product, you will need to own at least one of the following: 1. *Vista*, 2. *Con Moto – Cellos*, 3. *Con Moto – Violins A*, 4. *Con Moto – Violins B*, 5. *Con Moto – Violas,* or 6.* Con Moto – Basses*.








Pacific – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com




So I'd call that confirmed.


----------



## muziksculp

JGRaynaud said:


> Yep. I tried all the articulations too (apart from the legatos). I can confirm it is juicy. It's gonna be my main base for strings in my template, that's for sure.


How agile/flexible are the Spicc. articulations ? can you play them more like Stacc. ? 

This was one of my concerns about the short articulations of Pacific. Would appreciate your feedback on this detail. 

Thanks


----------



## wlinart

Vik said:


> Why the exactly the basses? Violin A/B and the cello sound great.


Because they are the cheapest, i just mentioned them as an example


----------



## Honko

muziksculp said:


> How agile/flexible are the Spicc. articulations ? can you play them more like Stacc. ?
> 
> This was one of my concerns about the short articulations of Pacific. Would appreciate your feedback on this detail.
> 
> Thanks


The freebie can do as fast as you want so yes very agile


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> How agile/flexible are the Spicc. articulations ? can you play them more like Stacc. ?
> 
> This was one of my concerns about the short articulations of Pacific. Would appreciate your feedback on this detail.
> 
> Thanks


Don't you literally have Pacific spiccatos on your computer to try out yourself? 😛


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> Don't you literally have Pacific spiccatos on your computer to try out yourself? 😛


Do I ? I don't know  , I will have to check.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Do I ? I don't know  , I will have to check.


Well if you don't, go download the freebie! I can hardly believe you haven't already tried it out


----------



## JGRaynaud

muziksculp said:


> How agile/flexible are the Spicc. articulations ? can you play them more like Stacc. ?
> 
> This was one of my concerns about the short articulations of Pacific. Would appreciate your feedback on this detail.
> 
> Thanks


They are like in the "full patch freebie" that you can download on the website of Performance Samples. Just a difference of tone and stereo width as it is per instrument and not all instruments playing together. But when it comes to the playing and what you can achieve with the spiccs you can see it with this patch.

The marcato patches are ultra playable (kinda reminds me of adventure strings "adventure patches) and I use them a lot to play longer staccatos. Overall I still use mainly the spiccatos for the shorts.

Edit : it worth mentioning that I find the freebie spiccato patch limited compared to the separated instruments patches, mainly because I pan the close microphone in my productions. If I want the close of my violins to be "very on the left" I can't do that on the freebie patch as it obviously pan the violas, cellos and basses close microphones to the left too. So yeah the freebie sounds more centered than what you can achieve with the library


----------



## muziksculp

JGRaynaud said:


> Edit : it worth mentioning that I find the freebie spiccato patch limited compared to the separated instruments patches, mainly because I pan the close microphone in my productions. If I want the close of my violins to be "very on the left" I can't do that on the freebie patch as it obviously pan the violas, cellos and basses close microphones to the left too. So yeah the freebie sounds more centered than what you can achieve with the library


Hi @JGRaynaud ,

Good to know. Thanks

OK, I checked, and Yes, I have the Freebie Pacific Spicc. ensemble patch. I wasn't sure if it is very close to the Spiccs in the Pacific Library when it is released. I was under the impression that it is somewhat a watered-down version. 

Playing around with the Spicc. Ens. Freebie patch, I find them quite agile, but not long enough to play like a real staccato. I think they can emulate Staccatissimo playing. I'm also not sure if the Freebie Spicc. ensemble has the same number of Dynamics, and sampling resolution as the one in the official library release version. I'm guessing yes, but again, not sure.


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> Well if you don't, go download the freebie! I can hardly believe you haven't already tried it out


LOL.. I have it. I always seem to miss finding some of my QL based Kontakt libraries.


----------



## JGRaynaud

muziksculp said:


> Hi @JGRaynaud ,
> 
> Good to know. Thanks
> 
> OK, I checked, and Yes, I have the Freebie Pacific Spicc. ensemble patch. I wasn't sure if it is very close to the Spiccs in the Pacific Library when it is released. I was under the impression that it is somewhat a watered-down version.
> 
> Playing around with the Spicc. Ens. Freebie patch, I find them quite agile, but not long enough to play like a real staccato. I think they can emulate Staccatissimo playing. I'm also not sure if the Freebie Spicc. ensemble has the same number of Dynamics, and sampling resolution as the one in the official library release version. I'm guessing yes, but again, not sure.


I'm not fully sure about the amount of dynamics but what's sure is that if the cellos have let's say 8 dynamics (it's an hypothetical number) and the violins 14 (hypothetical too, just for the example), Jasper would have to dumb down the violins to 8 dynamics like the cellos to make the ensemble patch playable. 

The marcatos can play longer staccato stuff in my opinion.


----------



## Markrs

*Pacific – Strings*: in order to qualify for the loyalty intro price for this product, you will need to own at least one of the following: 1. *Vista*, 2. *Con Moto – Cellos*, 3. *Con Moto – Violins A*, 4. *Con Moto – Violins B*, 5. *Con Moto – Violas,* or 6.* Con Moto – Basses*.






Re-Introduction Sale – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com





I need to give some thought to getting Con Moto Basses for $49 to enable into pricing on Pacific Strings. I wasn't looking to get any thing else so I really need to spend some time with the freebies and decide if I wasn't this or not.

@doctoremmet I think you were also hopping of getting something on sale to get the into price? $49 for the Basses looks a good option.


----------



## muziksculp

JGRaynaud said:


> The marcatos can play longer staccato stuff in my opinion.


That's great. Thanks.


----------



## muziksculp

OH, I also found out that I have purchased Con Moto Celli a long time ago, when they were first released. Always surprised with what I have. I also like the way they sound, and play. So... I'm tempted to get more Con Moto stuff. 

Question for those who have the full Con Moto Strings collection. Which Con Moto Violins section do you like better Violins A or B ? 

Thanks.


----------



## artinro

muziksculp said:


> That's great. Thanks.


Can confirm. Marcatos do a great job with longer staccato.


----------



## doctoremmet

Markrs said:


> I think you were also hopping of getting something on sale to get the into price? $49 for the Basses looks a good option.


Thanks! But I already have Vista so I’m good.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

So it will be one articulation per patch?


----------



## muziksculp

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> So it will be one articulation per patch?


If that turns out to be the case. I can always use to switch between them via Sound-Variations in Studio One Pro 5 based on the MIDI-Channel assignment of each articulation. So, not an issue. I'm sure you can find other ways to switch articulations in other DAWs.


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> Thanks! But I already have Vista so I’m good.


Ah I hadn't realised you had picked up Vista 👍


----------



## muziksculp

With regards to Con Moto Violins, here is a quote from the product page.

Quote :

"
*Violins A Versus Violins B*

_Violins B was recorded first, and the players are spread out over 1st violins and 2nd violins seating position. Violins A was recorded after, as an “improvement” on (or replacement of) Violins B and features a different selection of players, solely 1st violins seating position, and most importantly — an improved legato sampling approach.

While Violins A and B weren’t designed as Violins 1 and Violins 2, Violins A is a bit more present and with the 1st violins seating position, is more appropriate as a “1st violins” library (or counter-part to Violins B).

*Con Moto – Violins A* are entirely new, original recordings – not a re-mixed/reprogrammed *Violins B*."_

So, I'm guessing I would be safe going with the Violins A, since they are improved over what Vlns B offered. They were recorded after B as an improvement. They cost a bit more than Vlns B, but I'm guessing the extra $ is worth it, and I don't need Vlns B.

Then getting the Con Moto Vlas, and Basses would give me a complete Con Moto library.

Would be nice to hear from Con Moto Strings users about the Vlns A vs B.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Vik

muziksculp said:


> Question for those who have the full Con Moto Strings collection. Which Con Moto Violins section do you like better Violins A or B ?


I don't have the full selection, but I have Cello + Violins A and B. First: remember the 'not for purists' slogan they come with. For a first note in a phrase, you'll sometimes hear a little 'thp'-sound in the beginning in some of the notes, both in A and B. 

A seems to have more character, and also has this second page...






...which B doesn't have. Quite useful.


This is one of their demo files, done with an external reverb:



If you need that kind of character, A is IMO better at doing that than B.


----------



## muziksculp

Vik said:


> I don't have the full selection, but I have Cello + Violins A and B. First: remember the 'not for purists' slogan they come with. For a first note in a phrase, you'll sometimes hear a little 'thp'-sound in the beginning in some of the notes, both in A and B.
> 
> A seems to have more character, and also has this second page...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...which B doesn't have. Quite useful.
> 
> 
> This is one of their demo files, done with an external reverb:
> 
> 
> 
> If you need that kind of character, A is IMO better at doing that than B.



Thanks @Vik , 

What about Vlns B, what do you find them good for ? Since you have both Vlns A and B, do you use them both together ? or more A, or ... ? Just curious if I need to get both, or just A. I also plan to get the Vlas, and Basses.


----------



## muziksculp

OH.. and since Pacific Strings do not have 2nd Vlns, would using Con Moto or Vista Strings for 2nd Vlns legatos be feasible, would it sound odd, or will it work fine ? Just a thought


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

muziksculp said:


> If that turns out to be the case. I can always use to switch between them via Sound-Variations in Studio One Pro 5 based on the MIDI-Channel assignment of each articulation. So, not an issue. I'm sure you can find other ways to switch articulations in other DAWs.


Yea i know but then you have to control the mics on all patchs. I guess some people already do that so mean most people don't care. I would rather have a choice. Noit show stopper but..


----------



## muziksculp

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Yea i know but then you have to control the mics on all patchs. I guess some people already do that so mean most people don't care. I would rather have a choice. Noit show stopper but..


Yes, there is no other way, but to set the mics on each one of them. But, once you have them set as you like, you are done. time to just play and record.

But we still do not know how the library is structured. So, more speculation at this point.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Vik said:


> I don't have the full selection, but I have Cello + Violins A and B. First: remember the 'not for purists' slogan they come with. For a first note in a phrase, you'll sometimes hear a little 'thp'-sound in the beginning in some of the notes, both in A and B.
> 
> A seems to have more character, and also has this second page...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...which B doesn't have. Quite useful.
> 
> 
> This is one of their demo files, done with an external reverb:
> 
> 
> 
> If you need that kind of character, A is IMO better at doing that than B.



B seem to have something different as far as the attack goes. That's what i hear in the 1st demo. Might have something to do with the release as well? But i don't think you could replicate the 1st B demo with the A VI. Can someone confirm? or explain?


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## muziksculp

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> B seem to have something different as far as the attack goes. That's what i hear in the 1st demo.


You mean the first demo on the product page ?

This one ?


----------



## Vik

As an answer to that, I should mention that even that beautiful character which A has in that range doesn't exist in the full range of A (or maybe not even in the full range of violins in general) – so it would depend on the situation.


Re. Con Moto as a V2 for Pacific (or something else): I wouldn't know. The section sizes seem quite different.

Btw, I bought Vista because Vista had something Con Moto didn't, and for those of us who suffer from violinitis greeditis, there's no end to this anyway.  Maybe, in a few years years, the best libraries will come with, say, 5 V1s with the same specs, but with different character? At some point, I think it's a good idea to not buying anything at all until you know you need it. But Con Moto almost achieved some kind of cult status when it was taken off the market – especially the violins and cello (?), so you'll probably not regret getting them. Personally, I'm not so impressed by the bass and the viola (based on demos).


----------



## muziksculp

Vik said:


> I'm not so impressed by the bass and the viola (based on demos).


Hmmm... I need to re-listen carefully to those, and see if I have the same impression. 

I might just get Con Moto Vlns A & B, since I already have Con Moto Celli. and call it a day for the Con Moto Strings. 

The first demo of Con Moto Vlns B has a edgy attack, does Con Moto Vlns A have this as well ? I kind of like this if needed. Which makes me more interested in getting both Vlns A & B. 

Thanks.


----------



## Vik

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> B seem to have something different as far as the attack goes.


That varies from one note to another (they seem to have sampled every second note, btw).


----------



## Vik

muziksculp said:


> The first demo of Con Moto Vlns B has a edgy attack, does Con Moto Vlns A have this as well ?


Some of the notes have that 'thp', while most of them (I guess?) don't, and that is, IIRR, true for both A and B.


----------



## muziksculp

Vik said:


> That varies from one note to another (they seem to have sampled every second note, btw).


Is it also dependent on the dynamics setting to trigger these attacks ?


----------



## muziksculp

Vik said:


> Some of the notes have that 'thp', while most of them (I guess?) don't, and that is, IIRR, true for both A and B.


OK, so would you recommend getting both Con Moto Vlns A and B, or do you think just getting Vlns A is good enough ?


----------



## Vik

muziksculp said:


> Is it also dependent on the dynamics setting to trigger these attacks ?


No, the non-pure aspect of all this means that for some notes, that 'thp' also comes in at the lowest velocity levels. You'd need some editing to get rid of it (if the note is the first note in a phrase, and exposed).


----------



## Vik

muziksculp said:


> OK, so would you recommend getting both Con Moto Vlns A and B, or do you think just getting Vlns A is good enough ?


I would start with A.  The offer is valid for a month or so, so you can always get B later if missing B keeps you awake in the nights, but listen closely to the demos – maybe you like B better than A.


----------



## muziksculp

Vik said:


> I would start with A.  The offer is valid for a month or so, so you can always get B later if missing B keeps you awake in the nights, but listen closely to the demos – maybe you like B better than A.


Which one do You use/like more Con Moto Vlns A or B ?


----------



## muziksculp

@Vik ,

Since I already have Vista, and Con Moto Celli, I think I can use Vista's Violas, and Basses with Con Moto Vlns A & B, and the Celli, and skip them in Con Moto. What do you think ?


----------



## Vik

muziksculp said:


> Which one do You use/like more Con Moto Vlns A or B ?


A!



muziksculp said:


> Since I already have Vista, and Con Moto Celli, I think I can use Vista's Violas, and Basses with Con Moto Vlns A & B, and the Celli, and skip them in Con Moto. What do you think ?


Sorry, I just looked at the Con Moto bass page again, and found that it comes with 26 Crescendos and 40 Shorts. All string libraries come with too few variations of shorts IMO, so maybe these basses could be useful. But you have way more libraries than me, so it all depends on what you miss, right?

Con Moto is 8 violins A, 8 violins B, 6 violas, 6 cellos and 6 basses while Vista is 5/*/4/3/3 plus an extra section with 3 'overdub violins', but maybe they are combinable?

Btw, I don't remember all these section sizes, but have found that if I google 'vik string section sizes', I'm taken to a post here where I list lots of these!

If it helps, I have yet to hear demos showing Con Moto violas that really impress me (but I know some users here really like them). Don't listen to me! :D

What was this thread about again?


----------



## muziksculp

Vik said:


> What was this thread about again?


Freebies I think


----------



## muziksculp

OK, Muziksculp has finally decided to go for *Con Moto (Vlns A, Violas, and Basses).* Since he already has the Con Moto Celli. 

This made the most sense to me, since it will give me a more Complete Con Moto String Orch. I can think about getting Vlns B in the future, but I doubt I need them, given I can use Vista, or CSS, or other Vlns library that could work well if needed with Con Moto Vlns A.


----------



## muziksculp

This video shows both Vista and Con Moto Strings used together. For quite an epic-lush string sound.


----------



## muziksculp

I have the video cued at the point where Dirk shows the difference between Con Moto Vlns A & Vlns B.


----------



## novaburst

muziksculp said:


> This video shows both Vista and Con Moto Strings used together. For quite an epic-lush string sound.





muziksculp said:


> I have the video cued at the point where Dirk shows the difference between Con Moto Vlns A & Vlns B.



While there are very helpful suggestions and tips on string library's and most library's nothings beats listing to the actual performance of any library, 

Its so difficult to explain or talk the performance of an instrument to someone, but to listen to the instrument it self explains all.

Those Con moto sound so nice also vista


----------



## chrisav

Anyone know if there's a cut-off date to qualify for the loyalty discount? I'm considering getting the Con Moto Basses now to qualify for the Pacific deal, but I'd like to hear/see more demos of Pacific before pulling the trigger. Is it "risky" to wait for Pacific to launch before buying Con Moto?


----------



## Reznov981

chrisav said:


> Anyone know if there's a cut-off date to qualify for the loyalty discount? I'm considering getting the Con Moto Basses now to qualify for the Pacific deal, but I'd like to hear/see more demos of Pacific before pulling the trigger. Is it "risky" to wait for Pacific to launch before buying Con Moto?


I assume the loyalty price that we can see now is like a double discount - introductory and loyalty - so after the introductory period, the loyalty price will still be better than full price, but not as good as it is now.
Did that... Make sense? I feel like I'm going insane 😅
Edit: this is speculation.


----------



## Zanshin

Reznov981 said:


> I assume the loyalty price that we can see now is like a double discount - introductory and loyalty - so after the introductory period, the loyalty price will still be better than full price, but not as good as it is now.
> Did that... Make sense? I feel like I'm going insane 😅
> Edit: this is speculation.


"similar to some past releases, a loyalty intro price during (but not beyond) this intro period."


----------



## X-Bassist

Sounds interesting but without a walkthrough video it’s difficult to even consider Yet another string library. Sound doesn’t really matter if it’s difficult to use, cause I won’t want to use it. I have too much I don’t use already! (A few thousand in string purchases that either haven’t been used on a real project or was used once then never again).

And why a 3 violin overlay only at FFF? Why no dynamics? There seems to be a weird twist with every release he does. Lol.


----------



## wlinart

chrisav said:


> Anyone know if there's a cut-off date to qualify for the loyalty discount? I'm considering getting the Con Moto Basses now to qualify for the Pacific deal, but I'd like to hear/see more demos of Pacific before pulling the trigger. Is it "risky" to wait for Pacific to launch before buying Con Moto?


This: 


Zanshin said:


> "similar to some past releases, a loyalty intro price during (but not beyond) this intro period."


And "*Pacific Strings’ intro sale is planned to last 8-9 weeks." on the website.*


----------



## chrisav

Thanks for the replies, but I guess I phrased my question a bit weird. Essentially what I was wondering was whether or not I have to buy the Con Moto library BEFORE Pacific is put on intro sale, or if I can wait for Pacific to release (assuming it releases this month as planned) and _then_ buy Con Moto to qualify for the loyalty discount?


----------



## Alden Hill

chrisav said:


> Anyone know if there's a cut-off date to qualify for the loyalty discount? I'm considering getting the Con Moto Basses now to qualify for the Pacific deal, but I'd like to hear/see more demos of Pacific before pulling the trigger. Is it "risky" to wait for Pacific to launch before buying Con Moto?


I think you can wait till Pacific releases this month, because Con Moto Basses will still be on sale a while longer. See below from PS Webpage.

*$49 on sale (regularly $69) through August 26th, 2022 – Re-Introduction Sale*


----------



## davidson

Me every time I think about buying something from performance samples...


----------



## Honko

Anybody have experience with loyalty purchases before? Its weird since you don't have you're own account on the website. Makes me a bit confused as well.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> OK, Muziksculp has finally decided to go for *Con Moto (Vlns A, Violas, and Basses).* Since he already has the Con Moto Celli.
> 
> This made the most sense to me, since it will give me a more Complete Con Moto String Orch. I can think about getting Vlns B in the future, but I doubt I need them, given I can use Vista, or CSS, or other Vlns library that could work well if needed with Con Moto Vlns A.


I'm so glad you had the chance to get these! I absolutely love violins A. I anticipate Con Moto will be my core library and I'll use Pacific for the other articulations 🥰


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> I'm so glad you had the chance to get these! I absolutely love violins A. I anticipate Con Moto will be my core library and I'll use Pacific for the other articulations 🥰


Hi @chapbot ,

Thanks. I didn't buy them when they were a bundle, I always regretted that. This time around they were on sale, but not as a bundle. But I went ahead, I had Con Moto Celli, so it made sense to get the rest of the bunch, except for Vlns B, I thought I could use Vista instead if I needed a second vlns section. I didn't install them yet, but will be doing that today. 

Now I'm even more excited as we get closer to the launch of Pacific Strings any day during the second half of July.  

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp

Honko said:


> Anybody have experience with loyalty purchases before? Its weird since you don't have you're own account on the website. Makes me a bit confused as well.


How could it still be called a 'Loyalty' purchase, if you purchase it after Pacific Strings is released ? How loyal is that ?


----------



## Honko

muziksculp said:


> How could it still be called a 'Loyalty' purchase, if you purchase it after Pacific Strings is released ? How loyal is that ?


Sure, I agree. But I was just wondering if the loyalty discount enables at the checkout or if you need to do something before to get the loyalty. Of course after you purchase the products needed to enter.


----------



## muziksculp

Honko said:


> Sure, I agree. But I was just wondering if the loyalty discount enables at the checkout or if you need to do something before to get the loyalty. Of course after you purchase the products needed to enter.


Good question. I don't know the answer.

i.e. I have Vista, and almost all of Con Moto, but not sure how I would get the loyalty discount for Pacific Strings during checkout.

My guess is I might get an email from Performance Samples with a special discount code that I would then input during the check out to give me the loyalty discount price. I'm sure they have their customer database, with what each customer purchased, and their email, so it should be easy to email the discount loyalty voucher code.


----------



## muziksculp

The Pacific Strings Sordinos sound beautiful, and without reverb, or processing ! 

Looking forward to the big Pacific Strings release this month.


----------



## Casiquire

Maybe the old send an email and get a coupon code or link method.


----------



## JGRaynaud

X-Bassist said:


> Sounds interesting but without a walkthrough video it’s difficult to even consider Yet another string library. Sound doesn’t really matter if it’s difficult to use, cause I won’t want to use it. I have too much I don’t use already! (A few thousand in string purchases that either haven’t been used on a real project or was used once then never again).
> 
> And why a 3 violin overlay only at FFF? Why no dynamics? There seems to be a weird twist with every release he does. Lol.


If you ever bought a Performance Samples library, you should know that the libraries are always easy to use. You can dislike the tones or way it's sampled, but what' sure is that it's always designed to be easy to play with (look at Oceania, Caspian, Fluid Shorts, Angry Brass, Vista, etc). 

About the 3 violins overlay, nothing new there. Jasper already did that for Vista. It allows you to give an additional layer of expressiveness at some points where you would think the normal patch isn't as expressive as you would like. You wouldn't want that layer everywhere so it's good to have it separated. 3 violins because it gives more expression to the playing and a bit of a first chair feeling to the lines.


----------



## dyvoid

JGRaynaud said:


> About the 3 violins overlay, nothing new there. Jasper already did that for Vista. It allows you to give an additional layer of expressiveness at some points where you would think the normal patch isn't as expressive as you would like. You wouldn't want that layer everywhere so it's good to have it separated. 3 violins because it gives more expression to the playing and a bit of a first chair feeling to the lines.


Yeah, big fan of the 3 violins overlay in Vista. The legato transitions also have more portamento baked in, which works nicely to really accentuate some lines.


----------



## I like music

Do we know if this is the Vista discount Jasper was talking about ahead of Pacific's release? e.g. is it due to go lower than this price before Pacific is released?

Says $289 until August 2022, so I'm assuming that it won't change, but just wanted to double-check!


----------



## Multipdf

muziksculp said:


> The Pacific Strings Sordinos sound beautiful, and without reverb, or processing !
> 
> Looking forward to the big Pacific Strings release this month.



I have listened to demos and tried all the Con Sordino patches in my various string libraries but I will buy Pacific Strings solely based on their Sordino Strings sounds because they possess a 'magic' silky feel that I just can't get in my other libraries....even though there seems to be quite a bit of background noise in the samples.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Multipdf said:


> even though there seems to be quite a bit of background noise in the samples.


Yes, I expect this from Performance Samples libraries


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Hey ho! A new sample's been released, this time, an exposed legato violins part. 

What do we all think?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

I wonder if it's a coincidence that Spitfire is releasing "their most anticipated library yet" at the same time as Performance Samples is scheduled to release Pacific Strings.


----------



## Casiquire

Tinesaeriel said:


> Hey ho! A new sample's been released, this time, an exposed legato violins part.
> 
> What do we all think?



I like it it's more subdued and general-purpose than Vista and of course the tone is very good


----------



## mikeh-375

Tinesaeriel said:


> Hey ho! A new sample's been released, this time, an exposed legato violins part.
> 
> What do we all think?



struth, I would not be able to say if that was real or not in a blind test.


----------



## polynaeus

Casiquire said:


> I like it it's more subdued and general-purpose than Vista and of course the tone is very good


Yeah, at first I was like… am I underwhelmed by this? Then I was like… oh it’s nice and transparent which is probably a good thing.


----------



## BL

Tinesaeriel said:


> Hey ho! A new sample's been released, this time, an exposed legato violins part.
> 
> What do we all think?



Sounds like there is a volume dip for the rebow at 10 seconds? Or am I hearing things?


----------



## FireGS

BL said:


> Sounds like there is a volume dip for the rebow at 10 seconds? Or am I hearing things?


You're not hearing things.


----------



## JGRaynaud

BL said:


> Sounds like there is a volume dip for the rebow at 10 seconds? Or am I hearing things?


What you're hearing here is a modwheel movement


----------



## Marco_D

Tinesaeriel said:


> Hey ho! A new sample's been released, this time, an exposed legato violins part.
> 
> What do we all think?



Sounds awesome. My only concern is to what degree we can control attacks and transitions. I have a feeling that transitions will all be baked-in, and they sometimes sound a bit unidiomatic, with excessive portamento.


----------



## doctoremmet

So. July 18.

WHERE IS IT?


----------



## polynaeus

doctoremmet said:


> So. July 18.
> 
> WHERE IS IT?


On Jaspers hard drive.


----------



## Ricgus3

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I wonder if it's a coincidence that Spitfire is releasing "their most anticipated library yet" at the same time as Performance Samples is scheduled to release Pacific Strings.


I was actually thinking this aswell. Appasionata seems to be “vista killer” for lack of better words, targeting the exact thing vista does but at a much lower price. Maybe spitfire is starting to feel the competition rising up?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Ricgus3 said:


> I was actually thinking this aswell. Appasionata seems to be “vista killer” for lack of better words, targeting the exact thing vista does but at a much lower price. Maybe spitfire is starting to feel the competition rising up?


It's some coincidence, that's for sure 

Didn't Spitfire do did the same thing a little while ago - released the same type of library around the same time another developer released theirs of the same type? I forgot what library it was.


----------



## MarcMahler89

doctoremmet said:


> So. July 18.
> 
> WHERE IS IT?


"PROJECT STATUS UPDATE (July 2, 2022): Pacific Strings is now in beta stage and is expected to be release-ready in the next weeks (*2nd half of July)"*


----------



## doctoremmet

Relax, it was just a joke. Since we’re actually IN that second half


----------



## Sophus

Honko said:


> Sure, I agree. But I was just wondering if the loyalty discount enables at the checkout or if you need to do something before to get the loyalty. Of course after you purchase the products needed to enter.


My experience in the past was, that there is no automatic check on the website for your loyalty discount but only a manual check if they get the feeling that something is not correct with your order.

In the past I got my download links very fast, so the probably was no manual check.

Theoretically, you could just buy the library for the loyalty price and maybe nobody will check that you're eligible and you will still get the download links.

But it's also possible, there is a check done automatically in the backend with some kind of customer database.


----------



## ism

Ricgus3 said:


> Appasionata seems to be “vista killer” for lack of better words, targeting the exact thing vista does but at a much lower price


More of an 'incredibly nice, similarly beautiful, but *completely* different "vista companion" library. But that's just how I'd phrase it.

Happily I don't have to choose


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> More of an 'incredibly nice, similarly beautiful, but *completely* different "vista companion" library. But that's just how I'd phrase it.
> 
> Happily I don't have to choose


Yeah, I don’t see Appassionata doing what Vista does or vice versa.


----------



## MarcMahler89

doctoremmet said:


> Relax, it was just a joke. Since we’re actually IN that second half


Trust me, im probably even more impatient than you 😩 
13 days left ...


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

MarcMahler89 said:


> Trust me, im probably even more impatient than you 😩
> 13 days left ...


I know a person who is even more impatient than the both of you combined!


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I know a person who is even more impatient than the both of you combined!


Muziksculp- the man,the speculator, the legend.


----------



## FinGael

polynaeus said:


> On Jaspers hard drive.


Had to check from a mirror. No, not (a) Jasper. Bummer ;(


----------



## Casiquire

Ricgus3 said:


> I was actually thinking this aswell. Appasionata seems to be “vista killer” for lack of better words, targeting the exact thing vista does but at a much lower price. Maybe spitfire is starting to feel the competition rising up?


The two are very, very different. Appassionata is minimal vibrato all around and Vista, well, they accidentally got the Symphonic coffee bundle from Dunkin Donuts instead of the Chamber one.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Henrik B. Jensen




----------



## muziksculp

Henrik B. Jensen said:


>


Hopefully no more delays.


----------



## Futchibon

muziksculp said:


> Hopefully no more delays.



Is Jasper just stringing us along? 😜


----------



## Denkii

Master of puppets pulling his strings...


----------



## muziksculp

Futchibon said:


> Is Jasper just stringing us along? 😜


Yes, he surely has been doing so, and hopefully he will stop doing that any day this month.


----------



## ibanez1

I'm wanting to lock in the loyalty pricing but vista is still a bit too much and I don't own any con moto. Is everyone like me just buying con moto basses? I wish the fluid shorts were part of the loyalty as I think I would get more use out of them.


----------



## Getsumen

ibanez1 said:


> I'm wanting to lock in the loyalty pricing but vista is still a bit too much and I don't own any con moto. Is everyone like me just buying con moto basses? I wish the fluid shorts were part of the loyalty as I think I would get more use out of them.


I purchased the basses while knowing that I would not get much use out of them. I just chalk it up to me considering that pacific costs 350$, not 300


----------



## Zanshin

ibanez1 said:


> I'm wanting to lock in the loyalty pricing but vista is still a bit too much and I don't own any con moto. Is everyone like me just buying con moto basses? I wish the fluid shorts were part of the loyalty as I think I would get more use out of them.


If it were me I’d get Con moto Violins A, B, or Cellos. One of those should be more useful to use with Pacific.


----------



## ibanez1

Zanshin said:


> If it were me I’d get Con moto Violins A, B, or Cellos. One of those should be more useful to use with Pacific.


Lol this is not making it easy. I might be able to justify the cellos for extra upcharge.....


----------



## ibanez1

Getsumen said:


> I purchased the basses while knowing that I would not get much use out of them. I just chalk it up to me considering that pacific costs 350$, not 300


This is probably a good way to think about it if Im going to be more responsible with my purchase . But the viola and cello might find their use if I pay just a bit more


----------



## Futchibon

ibanez1 said:


> Lol this is not making it easy. I might be able to justify the cellos for extra upcharge.....


I think you'd get much more use out of the cellos than basses, worth it IMO...


----------



## dzilizzi

I'm okay with the delay. I've had some unexpected, well not so much unexpected but earlier than planned expenses in the last couple months. So not needing to buy stuff is helping me build back my savings. 

Though, truthfully, even when I know I am saving up to buy something and the savings is for that item, actually taking the money out of savings really annoys me. Don't know why. That's what it was for.


----------



## Batuer

He just said *"expected","release-ready". *So it may not be released this month, another delay probably.


----------



## muziksculp

Batuer said:


> He just said *"expected","release-ready". *So it may not be released this month, another delay probably.


Ten more days left in July, so any day now, please, please... no more delays. 

*(Attention Pacific Strings beta testers ! Please don't screw things up, all is sounding great, legatos sound amazing, smiles all the way, Thumbs up, let's enjoy Pacific Strings this month). *


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Yeah this is the one I’m waiting for…


----------



## Denkii

muziksculp said:


> Ten more days left in July, so any day now, please, please... no more delays.
> 
> *(Attention Pacific Strings beta testers ! Please don't screw things up, all is sounding great, legatos sound amazing, smiles all the way, Thumbs up, let's enjoy Pacific Strings this month). *


Funny...I'd think that you'd be one of the first to complain if something isn't to your liking. So i say go in beta testers! Make sure this library lives up to the sculpman's standards even if it meant that it needs more work!


----------



## Vik

muziksculp said:


> en more days left in July, so any day now, please, please... no more delays.


You need a good shrink, muziksculp!


----------



## muziksculp

Denkii said:


> Funny...I'd think that you'd be one of the first to complain if something isn't to your liking. So i say go in beta testers! Make sure this library lives up to the sculpman's standards even if it meant that it needs more work!


Well. ... You know I'm Just joking,  but then again, many of us would love to see it released this month.


----------



## muziksculp

Vik said:


> You need a good shrink, muziksculp!


No, I just need Pacific Strings to be released this month.


----------



## Casiquire

Batuer said:


> He just said *"expected","release-ready". *So it may not be released this month, another delay probably.


To me, that means "releasing in July". Release ready sounds like having all the marketing, all the distribution and file transferring, the website, all the documentation ready. I think it means we really are that close


----------



## Nimrod7

*Reintroduction Sale is on: *





Re-Introduction Sale – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com





CON MOTO – BASSES $49 + we qualify for the $299 loyalty intro for Pacific Strings.

There is no rush either. We can wait for demos. From July 2nd, the sale supposed to last 6-8 weeks.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Nimrod7 said:


> *Reintroduction Sale is on: *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Re-Introduction Sale – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CON MOTO – BASSES $49 + we qualify for the $299 loyalty intro for Pacific Strings.
> 
> There is no rush either. We can wait for demos. From July 2nd, the sale supposed to last 6-8 weeks.


Talk about being late to the party


----------



## Zanshin

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Talk about being late to the party


Or time traveler?!


----------



## Honko

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Talk about being late to the party


Give him a rest, everybody is not sample nerds like us and some actually make music too!


----------



## Denkii

Honko said:


> Give him a rest, everybody is not sample nerds like us and some actually make music too!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Honko said:


> Give him a rest, everybody is not sample nerds like us and some actually make music too!


I meant no harm to the poster, all was in good humor


----------



## Spid

Honko said:


> Give him a rest, everybody is not sample nerds like us and some actually make music too!


Or just ignorant…. I keep reading page and page, actually 140+ pages about Performance Samples and I don’t know what’s the fuss about it… from what I read it looks like something that was promised 10 years ago and kept being delayed over and over. I couldn’t read all 140+ pages about it, and couldn’t find any real concrete straight to the point info, so I’ve just being ignoring it so far… maybe they could try to communicate a little bit more for people that don’t spend their life on this thread…. Maybe they would gain new customers, I’m just sayin’


----------



## Denkii

Spid said:


> maybe they could try to communicate a little bit more for people that don’t spend their life on this thread…. Maybe they would gain new customers, I’m just sayin’


tis not the way of the Jasper.


----------



## Casiquire

Spid said:


> Or just ignorant…. I keep reading page and page, actually 140+ pages about Performance Samples and I don’t know what’s the fuss about it… from what I read it looks like something that was promised 10 years ago and kept being delayed over and over. I couldn’t read all 140+ pages about it, and couldn’t find any real concrete straight to the point info, so I’ve just being ignoring it so far… maybe they could try to communicate a little bit more for people that don’t spend their life on this thread…. Maybe they would gain new customers, I’m just sayin’


The website has been consistently updated with each delay so anyone who doesn't want to follow the forum could just check the site and have just as much information as the entire thread does, with the exception of speculation which occasionally dips into the surreal, if you like that kind of thing!


----------



## Honko

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I meant no harm to the poster, all was in good humor


For sure same here


----------



## Spid

Denkii said:


> tis not the way of the Jasper.


Well, that’s his loss then… I’m currently acquiring quite a few libraries to catch up on what I need, and so far I have no intention to ever buy anything from this brand because the lack of info and communication. I’ve been following this thread to learn more, but it’s all about delay, hope, delay, hope… 140+ pages of that. I’m too old for this shit. 

So I’m gonna stick to the brands I know well (VSL, OT, Spitfire, CineSamples, Cinematic Studio, Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling, Sonokinetics, NI, you name it…). It’s not like there’s not a lot of potential choices out there. If he’s not interested by my money, so be it, I can very well spend it elsewhere…


----------



## Denkii

Spid said:


> Well, that’s his loss then… I’m currently acquiring quite a few libraries to catch up on what I need, and so far I have no intention to ever buy anything from this brand because the lack of info and communication. I’ve been following this thread to learn more, but it’s all about delay, hope, delay, hope… 140+ pages of that. I’m too old for this shit.
> 
> So I’m gonna stick to the brands I know well (VSL, OT, Spitfire, CineSamples, Cinematic Studio, Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling, Sonokinetics, NI, you name it…). It’s not like there’s not a lot of potential choices out there. If he’s not interested by my money, so be it, I can very well spend it elsewhere…


Ok


----------



## ism

Spid said:


> Well, that’s his loss then… I’m currently acquiring quite a few libraries to catch up on what I need, and so far I have no intention to ever buy anything from this brand because the lack of info and communication. I’ve been following this thread to learn more, but it’s all about delay, hope, delay, hope… 140+ pages of that. I’m too old for this shit.
> 
> So I’m gonna stick to the brands I know well (VSL, OT, Spitfire, CineSamples, Cinematic Studio, Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling, Sonokinetics, NI, you name it…). It’s not like there’s not a lot of potential choices out there. If he’s not interested by my money, so be it, I can very well spend it elsewhere…



Sounds like you might be a purist.


----------



## Trash Panda

Spid said:


> Well, that’s his loss then… I’m currently acquiring quite a few libraries to catch up on what I need, and so far I have no intention to ever buy anything from this brand because the lack of info and communication. I’ve been following this thread to learn more, but it’s all about delay, hope, delay, hope… 140+ pages of that. I’m too old for this shit.
> 
> So I’m gonna stick to the brands I know well (VSL, OT, Spitfire, CineSamples, Cinematic Studio, Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling, Sonokinetics, NI, you name it…). It’s not like there’s not a lot of potential choices out there. If he’s not interested by my money, so be it, I can very well spend it elsewhere…


If you don't like his approach to communication, just wait until you get to the checkout page of the website...


----------



## Spid

I’ve learned a long time ago, there’s nothing (nor no one) that can’t be replaced… I can easily skip a library or even a brand I found shitty, because I won’t support shitty business. Another thing I’ve learned, in a society based on consumption, your biggest power is to spend wisely and put your money where your mouth is… enough said now, I’m out!


----------



## mussnig

Spid said:


> Well, that’s his loss then… I’m currently acquiring quite a few libraries to catch up on what I need, and so far I have no intention to ever buy anything from this brand because the lack of info and communication. I’ve been following this thread to learn more, but it’s all about delay, hope, delay, hope… 140+ pages of that. I’m too old for this shit.
> 
> So I’m gonna stick to the brands I know well (VSL, OT, Spitfire, CineSamples, Cinematic Studio, Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling, Sonokinetics, NI, you name it…). It’s not like there’s not a lot of potential choices out there. If he’s not interested by my money, so be it, I can very well spend it elsewhere…


You make things too complicated, in my opinion. Just download one (or better yet, all) of the freebies and see if these instruments speak to you. If so, they are probably well worth the wait.

Also, Jasper is giving status updates. Can't remember the last time Spitfire gave a status update (or even estimated release) for the upcoming Abbey Road Modular Orchestra.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Spid said:


> Well, that’s his loss then… I’m currently acquiring quite a few libraries to catch up on what I need, and so far I have no intention to ever buy anything from this brand because the lack of info and communication. I’ve been following this thread to learn more, but it’s all about delay, hope, delay, hope… 140+ pages of that. I’m too old for this shit.
> 
> So I’m gonna stick to the brands I know well (VSL, OT, Spitfire, CineSamples, Cinematic Studio, Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling, Sonokinetics, NI, you name it…). It’s not like there’s not a lot of potential choices out there. If he’s not interested by my money, so be it, I can very well spend it elsewhere…


Weird take, you're talking about a lack of info about the product when it's all on the website. If you're interested in even more details/behind the scenes stuff you can easily follow Jasper on Instagram/Facebook where there is plenty of communication. If you want more info/opinions about the brand and product there's also the 140+ pages of this thread which you're refusing to read (I know it's a lot, but sadly no one is going to or has the time to condense and summarise all of it for you). And if you think Jasper's lack of communication and delays are _bad _then wait till you hear about Alex from Cinematic Studio and the delay on the CSW/CSS update 

Anyway sorry if I come off a bit stern, it just seems weird to me to brush someone off completely without spending some time to do the research first.


----------



## ism

Spid said:


> I’ve learned a long time ago, there’s nothing (nor no one) that can’t be replaced… I can easily skip a library or even a brand I found shitty, because I won’t support shitty business.



I think Jasper's point though, however obliquely he expresses it, is that the same is also true about customers.


----------



## artomatic

I love Jasper's libraries.
Therefore, I buy Jasper's libraries.
Delay, or no delay. No drama!


----------



## Vik

Some companies never say a word about anything before a product is out – I kind of like that.

But if there are many* who now are frustrated with Pacific not being out yet, the silent approach (silent about release date) would possibly be a better approach than giving hints about when something is out.
* Are there? I don't know, but the solution is IMHO to never trust estimated release dates. I don't.

He could still post teasers, audio examples etc, but he would avoid complaints from people who have been reading these 143 pages and maybe other stuff, and expected Pacific to be out already.
So I think I may disagree with you, Spid: He should IMO have communicated less – or not at all – about expected release, and instead just announced that no release date will be announced before, well, the release date. Or they could announce it when they knew with 100.0% certainty that nothing could prevent a release in, say, two weeks – or something.

Threads like these will pop up anyway, and there's not much PS can do with that (other than announcing that their libraries will be out when they're ready).


EDIT: No companies mentioned, but personally I'd much rather have a library being postponed one or several times over it being released with bugs and issues that should have been identified and fixed before someone bought it.


----------



## muziksculp

pawelmorytko said:


> And if you think Jasper's lack of communication and delays are _bad _then wait till you hear about Alex from Cinematic Studio and the delay on the CSW/CSS update


Please add CineSamples to this list


----------



## ism

Vik said:


> He could still post teasers, audio examples etc, but he would avoid complaints from people who have been reading these 143 pages and maybe other stuff, and expected Pacific to be out already.
> So I think I may disagree with you, Spid: He should IMO have communicated less – or not at all – about expected release, and instead just announced that no release date will be announced before, well, the release date. Or they could announce it when they knew with 100.0% certainty that nothing could prevent a release in, say, two weeks – or something.


All of this is exactly what the marketing textbooks say he should be doing, of course.

But Jasper's marketing strategy is very clearly not "screw the marketing textbooks", exactly, so much as to care about and invest his energy in making sample libraries more than customer service, and then hope that there are enough non-purists who can cope with this kind of defiance-in-the-face-of-marketing-textbook-wisdom. He's just not playing that game.


----------



## soulofsound

Spid said:


> Well, that’s his loss then… I’m currently acquiring quite a few libraries to catch up on what I need, and so far I have no intention to ever buy anything from this brand because the lack of info and communication. I’ve been following this thread to learn more, but it’s all about delay, hope, delay, hope… 140+ pages of that. I’m too old for this shit.
> 
> So I’m gonna stick to the brands I know well (VSL, OT, Spitfire, CineSamples, Cinematic Studio, Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling, Sonokinetics, NI, you name it…). It’s not like there’s not a lot of potential choices out there. If he’s not interested by my money, so be it, I can very well spend it elsewhere…


why wouldn't he want your money?


----------



## Snarf

Spid said:


> Well, that’s his loss then… I’m currently acquiring quite a few libraries to catch up on what I need, and so far I have no intention to ever buy anything from this brand because the lack of info and communication. I’ve been following this thread to learn more, but it’s all about delay, hope, delay, hope… 140+ pages of that. I’m too old for this shit.
> 
> So I’m gonna stick to the brands I know well (VSL, OT, Spitfire, CineSamples, Cinematic Studio, Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling, Sonokinetics, NI, you name it…). It’s not like there’s not a lot of potential choices out there. If he’s not interested by my money, so be it, I can very well spend it elsewhere…


Jasper communicates plenty. Aside from giving updates about delays as mentioned by others, he also polls people their preferences for keyswitch approach, sample offset approach, mic setups, how modular the releases should be (e.g. selling per individual articulation vs instrument sections vs orchestral sections). And that's just off the top of my head. None of the big developers you mention involve their users to this degree. 

It sounds like your problem is with how people are behaving in this thread, and I would agree. However, it's not Jasper's fault that people here act like 5 year olds.


----------



## ism

soulofsound said:


> why wouldn't he want your money?


I believe this is covered in the "not for purists clause".



Snarf said:


> However, it's not Jasper's fault that people here act like 5 year olds.



Also covered in the "not for purists" clause. If I read it correctly.


----------



## Kony

Snarf said:


> Aside from giving updates about delays as mentioned by others, he also polls people their preferences for keyswitch approach, sample offset approach, mic setups, how modular the releases should be (e.g. selling per individual articulation vs instrument sections vs orchestral sections). And that's just off the top of my head.


Plus giving away some Pacific freebies - such as the excellent solo cello.


----------



## dunamisstudio

Spid said:


> I’ve learned a long time ago, there’s nothing (nor no one) that can’t be replaced… I can easily skip a library or even a brand I found shitty, because I won’t support shitty business.





ism said:


> I think Jasper's point though, however obliquely he expresses it, is that the same is also true about customers.


ISM, you said it better than what I had in my head just now. So I'll go with this.


----------



## David Kudell




----------



## Vik

Spid said:


> I’ve been following this thread to learn more, but it’s all about delay, hope, delay, hope… 140+ pages of that. I’m too old for this shit.
> 
> So I’m gonna stick to the brands I know well (VSL, OT, Spitfire, CineSamples, Cinematic Studio, Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling, Sonokinetics, NI, you name it…).


I also see that you describe Performance Samples as 'shitty business'? Over the years, I have bought samples from companies like VSL, OT, Spitfire, Cinesamples, Cinematic Studio and Performance Samples – and among them, Cinematic Studios is the one which seems to have the highest quality control.
Performance Samples somehow gets away from criticism with their 'Not for Purists' slogan and all the disclaimers you need to accept when buying their libraries, but looking at the big picture, I don't see them as more 'shitty' than any of the others. I wouldn't use that word anyway – about any of them.

Broken promises, weird or undesired UI/product decisions, delays, unfixed bugs, 'unacceptable' behavior or missing information etc. could be described as 'sins' which all these companies to some degree/at some point could be criticized for.

What if all companies in an imaginative situation had added a Not For Purists slogan, which they could refer to if some of their customers found something to complain about... would people see all of them as 'shitty' businesses, or would it be fair? I'd say that lots of this is about price, actually.
If a small company spends three times as much time in the studio as the others to get the desired results (in terms of expression and playability), we'd probably accept a non-purist slogan if we were warned beforehand and decided that we'd still pay the price they ask for. I know that many are willing to pay prices that are higher than average even if they get fewer articulations and the company is too small to hire loads of QA staff and coders –_ if the playability (even with some exceptions), musicality and expressiveness is exactly what they want._ The exception to this would be if other companies, claiming to be 'purist', would offer the same kind of product – only with fewer quirks and artifacts.

OTOH – how many are offering this kind of library with 50 players for $348 ($49 for the Con Moto basses and + $299, which is the intro price)? With the current PS deal, one also gets (based on the cello examples I've heard) what seems to be an excellent solo library.

Pacific contains (pasted from their website):

Legato Sustains with Same-Note Repetitions – up to 5 dynamics
Sordino Sustains (no legato) – up to 11 dynamics
Whisper Sustains (not on basses) – up to 5 dynamics
Trills (not on basses) – up to 8 dynamics
Tremolos – up to 9 dynamics
Spiccatos – up to 14 dynamics
Pizzicatos – up to 9 dynamics
Marcatos – up to 5 dynamics
FX – Cluster Risers
FX – Cluster Shorts
Solo Harp
Normale – 8 dynamics
Harmonics – 4 dynamics

If the library sounds good, has good/acceptable playability and the kind of tone and expression we're looking for, the above package (even with that non-purist profile) is very far from being 'shitty,' and the price actually is very low for a library with such specs. I guess the reason PS can offer all this for 349 is that they trust that a lot of us will buy it.

Personally, I would have preferred an equal library but made for 'purists' (read: with less risk of finding unwanted artifacts and noises), but that's probably true for all of us, including Jasper.


----------



## dzilizzi

Spid said:


> Well, that’s his loss then… I’m currently acquiring quite a few libraries to catch up on what I need, and so far I have no intention to ever buy anything from this brand because the lack of info and communication. I’ve been following this thread to learn more, but it’s all about delay, hope, delay, hope… 140+ pages of that. I’m too old for this shit.
> 
> So I’m gonna stick to the brands I know well (VSL, OT, Spitfire, CineSamples, Cinematic Studio, Audio Modeling, Sample Modeling, Sonokinetics, NI, you name it…). It’s not like there’s not a lot of potential choices out there. If he’s not interested by my money, so be it, I can very well spend it elsewhere…


Thank you for the laugh. 

Have you looked at the Spitfire Audio's 20 page thread on the modular library that was announced over 2 years ago? Frankly, I only started hearing about Pacific a year ago, and a lot of the delays were due to Jasper's health issues that are not really controllable by him. 

Every developer you named has had delays. Did CS ever finish their orchestra series? And the Infinite series? I haven't bought into either yet, so I quit following the speculation. 

If you follow Jasper's Facebook and even his website, he has been very clear about what's going on - way better than some other developers. And he's been giving a lot of freebies out, so I am very happy to wait and join in the conjecturing fun. Also, this is Sample Talk. Not an official thread.


----------



## WhiteNoiz

Well, sorry people, removed. Move on...


----------



## hauspe

WhiteNoiz said:


> After reading all the latest posts, I thought I'd have another go at it. Just another mishmash of all the freebies he's posted through the years (legacy selection, angry soloists, classical shorts, sordino/spicc freebie, bass drum, con moto legacy, harp, solo violin/cello). Of course, it's a bit rough and I kept a constant dynamic (just what seemed to blend by ear and partly because the legacy ones don't really have dynamics). Still seems great for that lush, dramatic stuff. It really shines. Full one should sound really good, especially if the style fits.


To be honest, it sounds quite unnatural, synthetic...don't get me wrong, but it is far away from anything real.


----------



## Snarf

WhiteNoiz said:


> Of course, it's a bit rough and I kept a constant dynamic (just what seemed to blend by ear and partly because the legacy ones don't really have dynamics)





hauspe said:


> To be honest, it sounds quite unnatural, synthetic...don't get me wrong, but it is far away from anything real.


Yeah... you absolutely have to use dynamics and/or volume/expression automation to shape your phrases and make it sound real/expressive. No other way around it.


----------



## NickDorito

WhiteNoiz said:


> After reading all the latest posts, I thought I'd have another go at it. Just another mishmash of all the freebies he's posted through the years (legacy selection, angry soloists, classical shorts, sordino/spicc freebie, bass drum, con moto legacy, harp, solo violin/cello). Of course, it's a bit rough and I kept a constant dynamic (just what seemed to blend by ear and partly because the legacy ones don't really have dynamics). Still seems great for that lush, dramatic stuff. It really shines. Full one should sound really good, especially if the style fits.


What the...


----------



## muziksculp

You can Play this audio clip while watching to get a better feel for the situation.  

View attachment String Tension 1.mp3


----------



## ibanez1

A few days later, I now have an injection of birthday money from family members to spend and the GAS is building. I'm really liking the sound of vista but the price gap vs. just picking up con moto bass or con moto cello for the pacific intro price is substantial.

Due to vista being chamber string size vs. pacific, is it still a unique enough library to pick up and complement what pacific will bring for the legato articulations?

Also, to make matters worse, music sampling's soaring strings is at 125$ right now and that plus con moto bass is still 100$ cheaper than vista.

Analysis paralysis .


----------



## JimDiGritz

muziksculp said:


>


"Any day MEOW..." - how did they miss that open goal.. smh


----------



## Loerpert

ibanez1 said:


> A few days later, I now have an injection of birthday money from family members to spend and the GAS is building. I'm really liking the sound of vista but the price gap vs. just picking up con moto bass or con moto cello for the pacific intro price is substantial.
> 
> Due to vista being chamber string size vs. pacific, is it still a unique enough library to pick up and complement what pacific will bring for the legato articulations?
> 
> Also, to make matters worse, music sampling's soaring strings is at 125$ right now and that plus con moto bass is still 100$ cheaper than vista.
> 
> Analysis paralysis .


As an owner of both Vista and Soaring string, I recommend going for Vista. I think the sound of that library is much better. Can't say if Pacific will sound different from Vista though. Listening to the legato demo's, I'd say they sound pretty similar.


----------



## composingkeys

ibanez1 said:


> A few days later, I now have an injection of birthday money from family members to spend and the GAS is building. I'm really liking the sound of vista but the price gap vs. just picking up con moto bass or con moto cello for the pacific intro price is substantial.
> 
> Due to vista being chamber string size vs. pacific, is it still a unique enough library to pick up and complement what pacific will bring for the legato articulations?
> 
> Also, to make matters worse, music sampling's soaring strings is at 125$ right now and that plus con moto bass is still 100$ cheaper than vista.
> 
> Analysis paralysis .


Don't forget Voyage that from what I understand will be Chamber Strings with all the latest techniques implemented!


----------



## ibanez1

Loerpert said:


> As an owner of both Vista and Soaring string, I recommend going for Vista. I think the sound of that library is much better. Can't say if Pacific will sound different from Vista though. Listening to the legato demo's, I'd say they sound pretty similar.


It's sounding like for me, patience will pay off. I'll wait for Pacific vs. getting Vista as the legato will probably be just as awesome although it might lose a bit of that individual character with the larger sections.


----------



## ibanez1

composingkeys said:


> Don't forget Voyage that from what I understand will be Chamber Strings with all the latest techniques implemented!


Yeah I didn't think about this. With hopefully the added benefit of intro pricing + it will have all the other bread and butter articulations, this might be the better investment. Of course there's the problem that we don't know in what timeframe it will release .


----------



## tc9000

pawelmorytko said:


> but sadly no one is going to or has the time to condense and summarise all of it for you)


I will: Performance Samples == good. You buy, be much happy. Make nice music. Much play. Very perform.


----------



## tc9000

@Spid


----------



## pawelmorytko




----------



## ism

Casiquire said:


> more subdued and general-purpose than Vista


I would actually disagree with descriptions of Appassionata as more "subdued" and less "passionate" (as Chris says in his review, for instance) that CSS/Vista etc 

But I'll resist the urge to recount the plot of Sense and Sensibility.


----------



## filipjonathan

So...is this out yet?? Do we know _anything _about it? Does it have 2nd strings? It has to have them right?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

July… it nears its end…


----------



## ansthenia

Pretty sure Jasper was referring to the July next year.


----------



## Denkii

filipjonathan said:


> So...is this out yet?? Do we know _anything _about it? Does it have 2nd strings? It has to have them right?


No it does not. It specifically says so on the product page.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Denkii said:


> No it does not. It specifically says so on the product page.


Are you sure? I mean, all string libraries gotta have 2nd strings. A string section without 2nd strings is like a hotdog without ketchup!


----------



## doctoremmet

Denkii said:


> No it does not. It specifically says so on the product page.


That can’t be right. Right? I think Jasper’s just pranking us. There WILL be second violins.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen




----------



## mr.vad0614

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Are you sure? I mean, all string libraries gotta have 2nd strings. A string section without 2nd strings is like a hotdog without ketchup!


It has been confirmed on the website...It's just 1st Violins.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

No second Violins unfortunately but it was confirmed that there will be a 1 and a half Violins section. 😜


----------



## Zanshin

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Are you sure? I mean, all string libraries gotta have 2nd strings. A string section without 2nd strings is like a hotdog without ketchup!


Expert trolling! *claps*


----------



## ridgero

Maybe Jasper is visiting Alex? 😅


----------



## filipjonathan

ridgero said:


> Maybe Jasper is visiting Alex? 😅


What if.....Jasper IS Alex??!!!!!


----------



## Trash Panda

filipjonathan said:


> So...is this out yet?? Do we know _anything _about it? Does it have 2nd strings? It has to have them right?


Is it all ensambles or will it have solo strings? Well the lagatos be as good as CSS or is this whole library worthless?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

would be nice if there was a toggle in the interface to make 2nd violins so that we don't have to transpose and pitch manually.


----------



## Loerpert

My theory is that Jasper keeps track of everyone who's complaining about 2nd violins. In secret he has recorded 2nd violins, but only those who didn't complain will get them.


----------



## Denkii

Loerpert said:


> My theory is that Jasper keeps track of everyone who's complaining about 2nd violins. In secret he has recorded 2nd violins, but only those who didn't complain will get them.


Sounds accurate


----------



## RMH

I'm waiting for...


----------



## chrisav

There's no 2nd violins because Jasper decided to break new ground and jump straight to the 3rd violins instead


----------



## Raphioli

Seeing so many new posts, I thought it was finally released....


----------



## Wolf68

Raphioli said:


> Seeing so many new posts, I thought it was finally released....


exactly my thought. so much hot air in here...


----------



## handshaker




----------



## mikeh-375

INTERLUDE......


----------



## Noeticus

How often do you REALLY need Second Violins? I mean, really?


----------



## ansthenia

Noeticus said:


> How often do you REALLY need Second Violins? I mean, really?


Must....resist.....the obvious....bait!

Can't...hold it......any longer!!


----------



## artinro

Hey folks,

Had a long chat with Jasper this afternoon and wanted to give everyone here a quick update. The library is super close now. We testers are getting updated patches on a live folder quite frequently and it's sounding really great. That said, I don't think the end of July release will quite hold, and there's really only one reason for it (completely unrelated to the library's progress itself)....Jasper's health.


For those of you following this thread and the growth of Pacific, you know that Jasper has had an ongoing issue with sudden hearing loss since late July last year. Over the last 4 weeks, he has been undergoing an intensive series of treatments (including hyperbaric oxygen treatments) almost daily, which require 3+ hrs of driving and several hrs for the treatment. He tells me the library would absolutely already have been out otherwise, but the amount of time he's had to be away from the studio for treatment is just slowing these final few weeks of work down as a result.


So, the library is in great shape and there are no snags, major bugs or surprises that came up related to the work on the library itself. This has been entirely health related and I know Jasper feels bad that he's made these incremental delays as a result. But he's obviously not going to rush out the library before it should be to make up for the delays. I think everyone here will be very, very pleased by how this library works and sounds and it's getting very close!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Wish him the best, health always comes first


----------



## reids

Ok, thank you artinro for the explanation. Wish Jasper well. So I suppose now the library will be ready when it's ready and not confined to an actual release date. Paging @muziksculp 🤣. The long wait continues a bit more.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @artinro ,

Thanks for updating us. 

I'm sad to hear about Jasper's health, his health is first, before everything else. The library will eventually be released, delays and all. 

I was under the impression that he was getting better during these last few months, and on his way to a full recovery, hence the announcement that the library will most likely be released this month. I guess things have changed now. 

Please keep us posted, wishing him a speedy full recovery, and hope to see Pacific Strings released one of these days. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Noeticus

We LOVE YOU, Jasper!

Your work is exemplary!


----------



## FrozenIcicle

muziksculp said:


> Hi @artinro ,
> 
> Thanks for updating us.
> 
> I'm sad to hear about Jasper's health, his health is first, before everything else. The library will eventually be released, delays and all.
> 
> I was under the impression that he was getting better during these last few months, and on his way to a full recovery, hence the announcement that the library will most likely be released this month. I guess things have changed now.
> 
> Please keep us posted, wishing him a speedy full recovery, and hope to see Pacific Strings released one of these days.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


For some reason I was waiting for you to say
"It's really sad his health is deteriorating but there's no excuse not to release back in January, when can we expect it?!" hahaha


----------



## ScarletJerry

I’m an impatient purist and I need second violins for my compositions. Is this the right library for me?


----------



## Getsumen

ScarletJerry said:


> I’m an impatient purist and I need second violins for my compositions. Is this the right library for me?


Do you also hate noise?


----------



## chrisav

I’m a Puritan inpatient and I need a second ventricle for my composure. Is this the right library for me?


----------



## JGRaynaud

For those who would like to hear Pacific with more close mics and how it sounds in context, I have a test I made from last year (when Jasper had just some pre-alpha patches of the library in the making). 

Please note that because of the early version of these patches there was no noise reduction yet so you hear an accumulation of noise floor and little noises in the release. This has been cleaned since then so don't worry about the noises. 

In this excerpt you just hear Pacific spiccatos (with a lot of close, something like + 8db, and panning on the close microphones only) and the violins sordinos at the beginning (also cleaned since then). All legatos are from Vista as the legatos weren't available.

People mainly heard Pacific with ambiant settings so I thought it would be interesting to show you how it can sound in a closer mix : 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ggnufopzlgdrfvt/Test%20Pacific%20Spiccatos%20in%20context.wav?dl=0


----------



## Argy Ottas

JGRaynaud said:


> In this excerpt you just hear Pacific spiccatos (with a lot of close, something like + 8db,


Pf, only +8db?? 




🤣🤣. Jokes aside, that was a great demonstration track. Thanks for sharing! 🙂


----------



## RMH

JGRaynaud said:


> For those who would like to hear Pacific with more close mics and how it sounds in context, I have a test I made from last year (when Jasper had just some pre-alpha patches of the library in the making).
> 
> Please note that because of the early version of these patches there was no noise reduction yet so you hear an accumulation of noise floor and little noises in the release. This has been cleaned since then so don't worry about the noises.
> 
> In this excerpt you just hear Pacific spiccatos (with a lot of close, something like + 8db, and panning on the close microphones only) and the violins sordinos at the beginning (also cleaned since then). All legatos are from Vista as the legatos weren't available.
> 
> People mainly heard Pacific with ambiant settings so I thought it would be interesting to show you how it can sound in a closer mix :
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ggnufopzlgdrfvt/Test%20Pacific%20Spiccatos%20in%20context.wav?dl=0


Thank you for sharing.👍


----------



## muziksculp

So...Hopefully August ?


----------



## Denkii

And so it begins


----------



## Denkii

JGRaynaud said:


> For those who would like to hear Pacific with more close mics and how it sounds in context, I have a test I made from last year (when Jasper had just some pre-alpha patches of the library in the making).
> 
> Please note that because of the early version of these patches there was no noise reduction yet so you hear an accumulation of noise floor and little noises in the release. This has been cleaned since then so don't worry about the noises.
> 
> In this excerpt you just hear Pacific spiccatos (with a lot of close, something like + 8db, and panning on the close microphones only) and the violins sordinos at the beginning (also cleaned since then). All legatos are from Vista as the legatos weren't available.
> 
> People mainly heard Pacific with ambiant settings so I thought it would be interesting to show you how it can sound in a closer mix :
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ggnufopzlgdrfvt/Test%20Pacific%20Spiccatos%20in%20context.wav?dl=0


I liked this a lot.
Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Larbguy

JGRaynaud said:


> For those who would like to hear Pacific with more close mics and how it sounds in context, I have a test I made from last year (when Jasper had just some pre-alpha patches of the library in the making).
> 
> Please note that because of the early version of these patches there was no noise reduction yet so you hear an accumulation of noise floor and little noises in the release. This has been cleaned since then so don't worry about the noises.
> 
> In this excerpt you just hear Pacific spiccatos (with a lot of close, something like + 8db, and panning on the close microphones only) and the violins sordinos at the beginning (also cleaned since then). All legatos are from Vista as the legatos weren't available.
> 
> People mainly heard Pacific with ambiant settings so I thought it would be interesting to show you how it can sound in a closer mix :
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ggnufopzlgdrfvt/Test%20Pacific%20Spiccatos%20in%20context.wav?dl=0


wow they sound huge but really clear and not muddy at all, at least to my normie ears. im even more stoked now


----------



## muziksculp

artinro said:


> So, the library is in great shape and there are no snags, major bugs or surprises that came up related to the work on the library itself.


I'm very happy to know that Pacific Strings is now in top notch shape. No more Legato tweaks needed, and no other issues to fix.

So.. I'm guessing it is ready for release whenever Jasper is feeling better, and feels comfortable to launch Pacific Strings. 

OH.. and I'm still prepping for the release party 🎈 🎉 🥳 🍸🍹


----------



## dzilizzi

Hearing problems when you are a composer must be extremely stressful. I can wait. I hope they figure out what is causing this and Jasper gets better soon.


----------



## muziksculp

The 'Pacific Strings' webpage still shows Quote : 

"*PROJECT STATUS UPDATE (July 2, 2022): Pacific Strings is now in beta stage and is expected to be release-ready in the next weeks (2nd half of July). Pacific Strings’ intro sale is planned to last 8-9 weeks." *

I wonder if this will be changed to reflect the delay mentioned by @artinro ?


----------



## Denkii

Three posts in 90 minutes.
Solid but you can do better!


----------



## X-Bassist

muziksculp said:


> The 'Pacific Strings' webpage still shows Quote :
> 
> "*PROJECT STATUS UPDATE (July 2, 2022): Pacific Strings is now in beta stage and is expected to be release-ready in the next weeks (2nd half of July). Pacific Strings’ intro sale is planned to last 8-9 weeks." *
> 
> I wonder if this will be changed to reflect the delay mentioned by @artinro ?


Knowing Jasper he’s prob even handling the website updates himself, so cut him some slack. Nothing more stressful to a composer or mixer than hearing problems. Every moment he’s home he’s prob working on the library itself. The website is prob the last thing on his mind.

Best to assume Sept, then you might be pleasantly surprised if it comes out earlier. Personally I just wait for the email and avoid these threads usually… today I was bored.

Besides, aren’t you the one with all the string libraries? Get to work with what you have! 😄


----------



## muziksculp

X-Bassist said:


> Knowing Jasper he’s prob even handling the website updates himself, so cut him some slack. Nothing more stressful to a composer or mixer than hearing problems. Every moment he’s home he’s prob working on the library itself. The website is prob the last thing on his mind.
> 
> Best to assume Sept, then you might be pleasantly surprised if it comes out earlier. Personally I just wait for the email and avoid these threads usually… today I was bored.
> 
> Besides, aren’t you the one with all the string libraries? Get to work With what you have! 😄


Thanks for the wise advice. I will just wait for the email.  Can't deal with the wait for this library anymore, better to forget about it until it's out. 

Sadly the party will be delayed until the email shows up. It's time to put Con Moto to work


----------



## Noeticus

The wait will be worth its weight in wait.

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Oh, never mind.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

muziksculp said:


> (2nd half of July)


Oh, in this I deciphered as the 2nd half of the 2nd violins.


----------



## doctoremmet

@artinro Please tell Jasper to take his time and send him my best wishes. I hope he gets better soon. ❤️


----------



## Vik

doctoremmet said:


> Please tell Jasper to take his time and send him my best wishes.


Make that 'our best wishes'!


----------



## muziksculp

OK. They Updated the status of Pacific Strings.

QUOTE : 
*"Project Status Update: Pacific Strings is now in late beta stage and release is forthcoming. Pacific Strings’ intro sale is planned to last 8-9 weeks."*​


----------



## Larbguy

muziksculp said:


> OK. They Updated the status of Pacific Strings.
> 
> QUOTE :
> *"Project Status Update: Pacific Strings is now in late beta stage and release is forthcoming. Pacific Strings’ intro sale is planned to last 8-9 weeks."*​


intro sale is for the first 8-9 weeks that its released? thats an extremely generous time frame if im understanding it correctly


----------



## muziksculp

Larbguy said:


> intro sale is for the first 8-9 weeks that its released? thats an extremely generous time frame if im understanding it correctly


Yes. Correct. That's my understanding.


----------



## Larbguy

muziksculp said:


> Yes. Correct. That's my understanding.


nice. im gonna be a day-one-er but that's great news for people on the fence who wanna wait for early adopters to try it out first


----------



## Futchibon

@artinro thanks for the update, sorry to hear about Jasper's hearing issues. Do you know how the loyalty discount will work, ie. if someone has Vista or Con Moto will there be a code sent out, or...?
Thanks


----------



## fan455

Is VSL the only big developer that doesn't make announcement before release so we don't need to wait?


----------



## Sophus

Futchibon said:


> @artinro thanks for the update, sorry to hear about Jasper's hearing issues. Do you know how the loyalty discount will work, ie. if someone has Vista or Con Moto will there be a code sent out, or...?
> Thanks


In the past It was usually purely on a trust basis that the customer selects the loyalty price or the full price. But Performance Samples will keep open the possibility to check orders for eligibility. This is how I understood with my past orders.


----------



## Living Fossil

Noeticus said:


> How often do you REALLY need Second Violins? I mean, really?








Category:Composers - IMSLP: Free Sheet Music PDF Download







imslp.org


----------



## NickDorito

NickDorito said:


> It's never coming out Part 5 (2022) (imdb)


It's never coming out Part 6 (2023)


----------



## Raphioli

Spoiler






NickDorito said:


> It's never coming out





NickDorito said:


> It's never coming out





NickDorito said:


> It's never coming out Part 5 (2022) (imdb)





NickDorito said:


> It's never coming out Part 6 (2023)






Now we know who was behind all of this (jinxing it) all along.
Time for the ban hammer


----------



## JGRaynaud

Argy Ottas said:


> Pf, only +8db??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 🤣🤣. Jokes aside, that was a great demonstration track. Thanks for sharing! 🙂


Actually I just compared the pre-alpha version I used for this test with the current version of Pacific. 

The levels are different on the latest version. I would need to add way less close to achieve this result now. I guess the pre-alpha spicc patches had the close mics at a lower level by default (as these were very early patches and many settings were in development). So yeah.. forget the +8db mention (actually it was +9.1db from what I just saw in the project). It isn't relevant anymore.


----------



## djb78

Been almost obsessively checking out the website updates to see when it's out. I'll be buying straight-away anyways based on what I've heard so far and Jasper's previous libraries. Would be great to be able to buy soon, but if it takes as long as the rest of the year I'll still be buying!


----------



## Raphioli

JGRaynaud said:


> The levels are different on the latest version. I would need to add way less close to achieve this result now.


This is actually great news for me, because I love how much detail the close mics have!


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @JGRaynaud ,

Are you able to give us general info. about Pacific Strings, now that it has been completed, and hopefully ready for release in the very near future, i.e. how many GB is the library ? Does it have any key-switches ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## JGRaynaud

muziksculp said:


> Hi @JGRaynaud ,
> 
> Are you able to give us general info. about Pacific Strings, now that it has been completed, and hopefully ready for release in the very near future, i.e. how many GB is the library ? Does it have any key-switches ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


About the size of the library everything isn't compressed as it should be for the final release so it can only be an approximation. 35-40gb minimum for the final product. 

No keyswitches. I believe no Performance Samples library ever had keyswitches so far and I doubt it's in Jasper's plans to start making libraries with keyswitches. As far as I know Jasper doesn't like articulation keyswtiching.


----------



## muziksculp

JGRaynaud said:


> About the size of the library everything isn't compressed as it should be for the final release so it can only be an approximation. 35-40gb minimum for the final product.
> 
> No keyswitches. I believe no Performance Samples library ever had keyswitches so far and I doubt it's in Jasper's plans to start making libraries with keyswitches. As far as I know Jasper doesn't like articulation keyswtiching.


OK. Thank You Very Much for the info. 

Appreciated.


----------



## Noeticus

I wonder how many times I have pressed F5 on this thread?


----------



## Jett Hitt

Hmmm. . . it never occurred to me that it wouldn’t have keyswitches. I hate having so many tracks. *sigh*


----------



## HarmonKard

Noeticus said:


> I wonder how many times I have pressed F5 on this thread?


My Keyboard:


----------



## Snarf

Jett Hitt said:


> Hmmm. . . it never occurred to me that it wouldn’t have keyswitches. I hate having so many tracks. *sigh*


There has already been a big discussion on this topic in this thread - with possible workarounds:




Snarf said:


> Regarding the keyswitches thing, here is a post from another thread on this subject. Hope it helps:
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on your DAW, you might not even need the keyswitch script. For example, Studio One allows me to map sound variations to midi channels. I'm sure Cubase, Logic and Reaper can do this as well.


----------



## jbuhler

Snarf said:


> There has already been a big discussion on this topic in this thread - with possible workarounds:


You can do it in Logic but it’s a pain, and it usually means you can’t easily share your midi among instruments without going in and stripping out the midi channel assignments or reassigning the articulations. All in all I’m not fond of instruments set up this way.


----------



## Snarf

jbuhler said:


> You can do it in Logic but it’s a pain, and it usually means you can’t easily share your midi among instruments without going in and stripping out the midi channel assignments or reassigning the articulations. All in all I’m not fond of instruments set up this way.


You could still try the keyswitch script if the midi channel route does not work. As noted before, this would give mixing flexibility as well. Anyways, I did not mean to renew this discussion. It already happened, I was only pointing at it.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Snarf said:


> You could still try the keyswitch script if the midi channel route does not work. As noted before, this would give mixing flexibility as well. Anyways, I did not mean to renew this discussion. It already happened, I was only pointing at it.


Thanks for pointing it out. Looks like that transpired about Xmas time, and I missed it.


----------



## muziksculp

I have no problem dealing with no Key-Switches, since I can easlily make my own in Studio One Pro 5, based on the midi channels. Easy Peasy.


----------



## Denkii

"No keyswitches" is one of the main reasons I enjoy PS products.


----------



## mussnig

Doesn't Oceania have some keyswitches in case you want to control the syllables? But admittedly, I never use them (except maybe at the beginning of a phrase to reset the cycle so it sounds the same on every playthrough).


----------



## AndrewS

Jett Hitt said:


> Hmmm. . . it never occurred to me that it wouldn’t have keyswitches. I hate having so many tracks. *sigh*


You can always make a kontakt bank and switch articulations using program changes


----------



## Casiquire

Denkii said:


> "No keyswitches" is one of the main reasons I enjoy PS products.


Including them as an option wouldn't hurt you though.

Oh wait I think we've been through this whole conversation cycle a dozen times 😂


----------



## Denkii

Casiquire said:


> Including them as an option wouldn't hurt you though


Yes it would.
Physically.
The pain is unimaginable.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Here’s a compromise: Keyswitches, but only on the second violins.


----------



## I like music

muziksculp said:


> I have no problem dealing with no Key-Switches, since I can easlily make my own in Studio One Pro 5, based on the midi channels. Easy Peasy.





Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Here’s a compromise: Keyswitches, but only on the second violins.


Wait, does it have second violins? I keep getting these really vague hints that it might not have second violins, but then people over here say it doesn't.

I suppose it doesn't matter in the end, as long as it has third violins.


----------



## Denkii

I heard the second violins will be the only ones that are denoised. Is that true?


----------



## Futchibon

Denkii said:


> I heard the second violins will be the only ones that are denoised. Is that true?


Yes, so denoised that you can't hear them. 

PS I caught your performance the other day, great job!


----------



## muziksculp

Denkii said:


> I heard the second violins will be the only ones that are denoised. Is that true?


Yes, that is true, they are denoised to silence.


----------



## muziksculp

I'm just imagining how the scene would be on this thread, if Jasper changes his mind, and decides to release Pacific Strings tomorrow the 30th, or on the last day of July. Just a fun thought, or was I dreaming this happened ?


----------



## Reznov981

muziksculp said:


> I'm just imagining how the scene would be on this thread, if Jasper changes his mind, and decides to release Pacific Strings tomorrow the 30th, or on the last day of July. Just a fun thought, or was I dreaming this happened ?


*"Unfortunately, release of Pacific Strings has been delayed indefinitely, due to popular demand of 2nd Violins. VI-C community, this is your fault."*

Straight from Jasper himself 😉😂


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Hey all, having a mind freeze here. 
Messing around with the pacific 10 cello spiccato freebie.
Cant quite seem to get it in time, shouldn't setting my delay to -100 do the trick to get it to lock in? 

Feels off.

Thanks!


----------



## Kony

Baronvonheadless said:


> shouldn't setting my delay to -100 do the trick


I think Jasper generally sets the strings to -140


----------



## X-Bassist

muziksculp said:


> I'm just imagining how the scene would be on this thread, if Jasper changes his mind, and decides to release Pacific Strings tomorrow the 30th, or on the last day of July. Just a fun thought, or was I dreaming this happened ?


Ok, I pop in here on a mix break and you have 5 more posts?

(Quote) “Thanks for the wise advice. I will just wait for the email.  Can't deal with the wait for this library anymore, better to forget about it until it's out. 

Sadly the party will be delayed until the email shows up. It's time to put Con Moto to work ” (end quote)

Are you writing any music or just collecting strings? 😄

I hope this will be worth all the time and typing you’ve invested. But is it ever? Really?

I imagine the second you download this and test it out, you’ll be posting a “when will this come out?” On the next big string release. 😄

But I hope these 24 pages are showing Jasper, silence is golden until you have a release ready! 😂

Ok, Just joking, please, continue. It’s probably more fun than trying to write with static string libs anyway. I’ll get back to work…


----------



## muziksculp

@X-Bassist ,

You want to tell me you have no interest in Pacific Strings ?


----------



## Kony

muziksculp said:


> OH, I also found out that I have purchased Con Moto Celli a long time ago, when they were first released.


@X-Bassist haven't you realised yet that @muziksculp is a collector? I bet he pushed Jasper on the release date for Con Moto as well


----------



## Getsumen

So Voyage will be out the following month right?


----------



## Noeticus

Ahhhhhh, but will VOYAGE have second strings?


----------



## muziksculp

Noeticus said:


> Ahhhhhh, but will VOYAGE have second strings?


Best question of the month  👍


----------



## Niv Schrieber

At this pace the new audio imperia and PS chamber strings collaboration library (recorded in the same hall that pacific was recorded in) will be released at the same time as pacific strings or at least in the same time frame. I remember AI said they are aiming for an august-september time frame for the release of this library.


----------



## I like music

Niv Schrieber said:


> At this pace the new audio imperia and PS chamber strings collaboration library (recorded in the same hall that pacific was recorded in) will be released at the same time as pacific strings or at least in the same time frame. I remember AI said they are aiming for an august-september time frame for the release of this library.


Overdone joke here, but will THEY have second strings? No one knows. 

Also, I can fully imagine shifting the release date for this library.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

I like music said:


> Overdone joke here, but will THEY have second strings? No one knows.
> 
> Also, I can fully imagine shifting the release date for this library.


Actually, we do know. Those will have second Violins according to AI. I remember they answered about It in a post.


----------



## I like music

Niv Schrieber said:


> Actually, we do know. Those will have second Violins according to AI. I remember they answered about It in a post.


No one knows Niv! Even those who play in that section aren't told of their recordings will ever be included in product.


----------



## Getsumen

Pacific (New) - Added a Violins II overlay to the 3 Violins FFF overlay


----------



## MartinH.

Is anything known about the price of pacific solo strings and whether or not it will contain a solo bass?


----------



## Niv Schrieber

MartinH. said:


> Is anything known about the price of pacific solo strings and whether or not it will contain a solo bass?


No, but if you buy pacific strings during the intro period you get the solo strings for free when released.


----------



## ScarletJerry

I own Vista (my favorite string library) as well as CSS and CS 2, Soaring Strings, Anthology and the old Adagios and also Josh Bell violin, Tina Guo cello, and Spitfire Solo Strings, Solos of the Sea B. Is there any reason for me to even *consider* Pacific strings? I’ve been following this thread because I love Jasper’s work, like to hear about the freebies, and join the good natured jokes about 2nd violins. Understanding that everyone likes to acquire more string libraries, but in all seriousness, what will this library give me that I can’t do with my existing string libraries? I like to compose soundtrack music, and I love longing legatos. That’s why Vista is my favorite string library.


----------



## MartinH.

Niv Schrieber said:


> No, but if you buy pacific strings during the intro period you get the solo strings for free when released.


Thanks. That makes me think/hope they must be considerably less expensive than the sections. Which would make sense considering the much lower amount of players that need to be hired for a solo library.
The full bundle is over my limit currently.


----------



## Noeticus

ScarletJerry said:


> I own Vista (my favorite string library) as well as CSS and CS 2, Soaring Strings, Anthology and the old Adagios and also Josh Bell violin, Tina Guo cello, and Spitfire Solo Strings, Solos of the Sea B. Is there any reason for me to even *consider* Pacific strings? I’ve been following this thread because I love Jasper’s work, like to hear about the freebies, and join the good natured jokes about 2nd violins. Understanding that everyone likes to acquire more string libraries, but in all seriousness, what will this library give me that I can’t do with my existing string libraries? I like to compose soundtrack music, and I love longing legatos. That’s why Vista is my favorite string library.


More Dynamic Layers than ever before!!!


----------



## muziksculp

ScarletJerry said:


> I own Vista (my favorite string library) as well as CSS and CS 2, Soaring Strings, Anthology and the old Adagios and also Josh Bell violin, Tina Guo cello, and Spitfire Solo Strings, Solos of the Sea B. Is there any reason for me to even *consider* Pacific strings?


Seriously, didn't you know that *YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH STRINGS LIBRARIES*. 

Now.. Repeat it at least a 100 times today, tomorrow, and the rest of next week, then buy Pacific Strings when it is released, you won't regret it, and you will also feel a lot better.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

From what I understand, it’s going to be the most uniform, tight and “clean” library PS has done. Trimmed and everything. Less quirky and more vanilla, in a good way. 

But with the liveliness and energy that his samples have. And the dynamic layers. 

Personally I would pay that price just from what I’ve heard of the whisper sustains and marcatos. I want to hear some Tchaikovsky and MOZART with these strings!


----------



## Futchibon

Baronvonheadless said:


> Personally I would pay that price just from what I’ve heard of the whisper sustains and marcatos.


Yep, and the sordinos too.

And if you pardon my French, the motion trems on the solo strings sound _putain de_ amazing!


----------



## Kyle Preston

Bien dit!


----------



## Kony




----------



## Argy Ottas

Jasper posted this on his Facebook, couple of hours ago.
Thought it belongs here :D


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

This is an amazing and true symphonic sound that I really love!!!


----------



## doctoremmet

Just the demo I needed to avoid any Spitfire sale GAS. Due to a particularly inspiration-less week, I was actually checking out BT Phobos - imagine that. This sounds beautiful!


----------



## Denkii

doctoremmet said:


> Due to a particularly inspiration-less week, I was actually checking out BT Phobos - imagine that.


The doc needs a medic!
Don't do it girl, it's not worth it.

To clarify before people take it personal again: the second sentence is a reference to a TikTok meme. I'm not trying to bash any competitor's libraries here although if i did, that would resemble my personal opinion.


----------



## doctoremmet

No “don’t be a jerk” rule was broken in the previous jokes.


----------



## Denkii

doctoremmet said:


> No “don’t be a jerk” rule was broken in the previous jokes.


No fire has been spat in the making of these posts.


----------



## Denkii

On a more serious note: I wasn't all too interested in Pacific at first and truth be told a lot of PS products always feel a bit "proof of concept-y" to me. Even now...knowing that AI has been working on another string section collaboration with Jasper (although chamber sized iirc) it feels like if i wanted to get a 'proper' product, I should rather wait for that to come out instead of splurging for Pacific - if i want to buy anything at all.

BUT: when I do look back and analyze which of my former purchases I actually do use most often, PS is one of two developers that come to my mind.
And the more demos I hear, the more I enjoy what it seemingly brings to the table.
Jasper is a weirdo. The way he communicates his business is definitely...unconventional. But man for some lone warrior this guy knows what he's doing and what he puts out puts products to shame that have big teams behind them. Or at least it makes it feel like we should be able to expect a lot more from companies where X amount of people are working on a product.
And for all his seeming harshness, I can actually respect the guy. No nonsense marketing blabla, no trying to sell you something that his products are not. Early demos (yeah they're alpha but you'll find enough demos once stuff gets released by other users before intro runs out or just check the freebies), oh yeah: freebies.

I don't know. Of course I could be wrong but he strikes me as a guy who is just interested and good at what he's doing and tries to make some money on the side with stuff that he does for himself anyway but that can get manageably easy monetized. Good for him.
I bet if someone reasonably reached out to him and he can find the time, he wouldn't tell them to fuck off but also listen to their bugs/ideas/whatevers (even if it's just to keep useful bits in mind for future releases), and he's just trying to communicate that it can't be expected of him.

I could be wrong with all of this and he could be the biggest asshole alive. Doesn't change the fact that Pacific sounds unreasonably good with regards to how many people worked on it when you compare it to something else from the usual suspects.
Or maybe this is all just a big David vs. Goliath Marketing scheme and Performance Samples is actually 30 people. Who knows.


----------



## polynaeus

Denkii said:


> Or maybe this is all just a big David vs. Goliath Marketing scheme and Performance Samples is actually 30 people. Who knows.


Jasper may be the sole proprietor of PS but I'm sure he has contract help on the libraries from a number of people. Certainly not 30 but he's definitely not doing this alone.


----------



## Noeticus

Nice to see this thread at over 3000 posts!!!


----------



## pawelmorytko

Argy Ottas said:


> Jasper posted this on his Facebook, couple of hours ago.
> Thought it belongs here :D



I can't wait to be so disappointed with the library when I realise I can't write like this


----------



## Jett Hitt

This library is an insta-buy for me. What a sound!


----------



## Lawson.

Denkii said:


> On a more serious note: I wasn't all too interested in Pacific at first and truth be told a lot of PS products always feel a bit "proof of concept-y" to me. Even now...knowing that AI has been working on another string section collaboration with Jasper (although chamber sized iirc) it feels like if i wanted to get a 'proper' product, I should rather wait for that to come out instead of splurging for Pacific - if i want to buy anything at all.


For what it's worth, I think Jasper has said Pacific is aimed to be more of a "vanilla" library that focuses on doing core articulations very well. It's much less "proof of concept-y" than his other libraries; more of taking the accumulative knowledge and making a solid workhorse with it. Voyage, on the other hand...


----------



## mussnig

And another one.


----------



## JF

mussnig said:


> And another one.



Wow.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

Yep. That's pretty much the sound I was chasing in a strings library for a few years now. There were a few libraries that were close, but not quite. Jasper nailed it. So close, can't wait!


----------



## artomatic

Really love what I'm hearing at this stage!
All the best, Jasper!


----------



## Kevperry777

mussnig said:


> And another one.



My visa number is …


----------



## CT

I told you people last year... this is not one to ignore!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

mussnig said:


> And another one.



He ought to write music like this and then release it as a payable download on his website 

Imagine listening to 45 mins of such beautiful music.

Edit: Using just his sample libraries, I mean


----------



## Ricgus3

mussnig said:


> And another one.



Oh no… I wasn’t even thinking about pacific but now I am. Saving up I guess for the intro price. This sounds insane!


----------



## FrozenIcicle

mussnig said:


> And another one.



Deaf guy speed writes a 15 min piece better than what I can do in 3 months of constant tweaking.


----------



## doctoremmet

FrozenIcicle said:


> Death guy speed writes a 15 min piece better than what I can do in 3 months of constant tweaking.


Death guy?


----------



## mussnig

doctoremmet said:


> Death guy?


I think he meant deaf, since Jasper supposedly has hearing problems.


----------



## doctoremmet

mussnig said:


> I think he meant deaf, since Jasper supposedly has hearing problems.


Ah I’m sorry. I was genuinely feeling “out of the loop”. Gotcha!


----------



## FrozenIcicle

oops I wrote it fast


----------



## chrisav

Jasper Blunk, AKA the Grim Reaper (of Wallets)


----------



## Kony

"Wow!" based on the recent examples - and because even when he knew how good this sounds, Jasper still halved the price recently for the strings. The only thing I'm a bit sad about is the fact that Pacific will make all these other lovely string libraries I have redundant.


----------



## I like music

Michaelt said:


> I told you people last year... this is not one to ignore!


Unfortunately, I think Muziksculp really took your words to heart, and therefore no one has been able to ignore it.

(Fortunately)


----------



## I like music

Just bought a library I will never ever use.

To buy a library I am sure I will use.


----------



## mussnig

I like music said:


> Just bought a library I will never ever use.
> 
> To buy a library I am sure I will use.


Hahaha, most likely did the same not too long ago but I guess it can be put to good use.


----------



## I like music

mussnig said:


> Hahaha, most likely did the same not too long ago but I guess it can be put to good use.


Perhaps I should have spent a bit more and got the cellos, instead of the basses. But you know how it is. Gotta save those pennies (for more libraries)


----------



## I like music

Argy Ottas said:


> Jasper posted this on his Facebook, couple of hours ago.
> Thought it belongs here :D



I can definitely hear that the lack of 2nd violins hurts this so much. Basically unlistenable. Made me vomit out of rage.


----------



## doctoremmet

I hear Jasper’s accountant has just sent him an email about how all of a sudden Con Moto Basses sales have gone through the roof, and if this may be due to some pricing glitch


----------



## I like music

doctoremmet said:


> I hear Jasper’s accountant has just sent him an email about how all of a sudden Con Moto Basses sales have gone through the roof, and if this may be due to some pricing glitch


----------



## MartinH.

Michaelt said:


> I told you people last year... this is not one to ignore!


Do you have any insights from beta testing? I'd love to know what you (or other beta testers) think about the pacific solo strings compared to the spitfire solo strings.


----------



## Raphioli

doctoremmet said:


> I hear Jasper’s accountant has just sent him an email about how all of a sudden Con Moto Basses sales have gone through the roof


He might be like, " f*** 2nd Violins. Since so many people want basses, we're going to added 2nd Basses in Voyage" .


----------



## doctoremmet

I also hear Jasper’s accountant runs a little side hustle, selling sales data to market research agencies. Soon all “what shall we develop next” algo’s will point to the inevitable second basses.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Perhaps 3rd Violins in Voyage to make good for the missing 2nds in Pacific / Vista


----------



## Denkii

Add vista's violins and fluid shorts to pacific as second strings.
Yeah it's a different size but it sounds great as heard in demos in this thread and you guys are looking for excuses to spend money.
You're welcome.


----------



## I like music

Denkii said:


> Add vista's violins and fluid shorts to pacific as second strings.
> Yeah it's a different size but it sounds great as heard in demos in this thread and you guys are looking for excuses to spend money.
> You're welcome.


Hopefully my CSS OR the kontakt transposition stuff will do the trick. Or in some cases where the lines don't ever intersect (my music is too simple) I'll just pretend another instance of the 1st violins are the 2nd violins.


----------



## doctoremmet

Just pitch up Con Moto Basses 6 octaves


----------



## Reznov981

Hey guys, here's my question:
Reckon I should buy pacific Strings?
In terms of ensemble strings, I have BBCSO and Appassionata.
I like making the cinematic music that goes fwaaa laaaa maaatidaaaa *string, string, sad, portamento* etc.
Do you think that this library would add many new posibilities for my writing?


----------



## Bluemount Score

doctoremmet said:


> Just pitch up Con Moto Basses 6 octaves


God really left us this time didn't he


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Reznov981 said:


> I like making the cinematic music that goes fwaaa laaaa maaatidaaaa *string, string, sad, portamento* etc.


I don't know the answer to your question but I like the way you phrased it.


----------



## Casiquire

Reznov981 said:


> I like making the cinematic music that goes fwaaa laaaa maaatidaaaa *string, string, sad, portamento* etc.


This is the greatest thing. I've never even heard your music but it's way underrated


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

So what's the general consensus on using Con Moto Violins B to complement Pacific? 'Cause apparently this library doesn't have 3rd Violas or something and I'm trying to work around that.


----------



## Casiquire

Laurin Lenschow said:


> So what's the general consensus on using Con Moto Violins B to complement Pacific? 'Cause apparently this library doesn't have 3rd Violas or something and I'm trying to work around that.


To my ears they have quite a different character. I don't think there's a better option than the transposition trick


----------



## I like music

Casiquire said:


> To my ears they have quite a different character. I don't think there's a better option than the transposition trick


There is a better option. 

But it would delay release by quite a long time 😂


----------



## Denkii

If I can write like the demos and still want second violins, I'll let you know.
See you when that happens.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Casiquire said:


> To my ears they have quite a different character. I don't think there's a better option than the transposition trick


If you layer every Pacific section with Con Moto, then using the violin b patch would make more sense. At least that's what I am going to try.


----------



## MelodicAdagio

Casiquire said:


> To my ears they have quite a different character. I don't think there's a better option than the transposition trick


That's what I plan on doing. I'm used to writing for second violins, so it would feel funny skipping them, and the transposition trick will retain the timbre and character of the library.


----------



## AndyP

Everybody- drink 🍺


----------



## Noeticus

🍷 🍷 🍷 🍷 🍷

🍸🍸🍸🍸🍸


----------



## Jett Hitt

The only typical difference between 1st and 2nd violins in an orchestra is the ability of the players, and in professional orchestras, even that isn't an issue. 2nd violins are dominated and overpowered by 1st violins because of where they sit in the register. That's why the best players are in the 1st violin section. What conductor wouldn't want two 1st violin sections were it an option? Jasper--the fellow who made the library you're all salivating over and who wrote the music above--understands this. If your 1st violin patch won't adequately perform your 2nd violin part, something is terribly wrong.


----------



## doctoremmet

Wait what?! There are no second violins??


----------



## AndyP

doctoremmet said:


> Wait what?! There are no second violins??


Drink two 🍺🍺


----------



## jamessy

Jett Hitt said:


> The only typical difference between 1st and 2nd violins in an orchestra is the ability of the players, and in professional orchestras, even that isn't an issue. 2nd violins are dominated and overpowered by 1st violins because of where they sit in the register. That's why the best players are in the 1st violin section. What conductor wouldn't want two 1st violin sections were it an option? Jasper--the fellow who made the library you're all salivating over and who wrote the music above--understands this. If your 1st violin patch won't adequately perform your 2nd violin part, something is terribly wrong.


except when the same recordings have to cover both voices - wanting 2nds wasn't an unreasonable request, especially at the time when it was priced at $1000


----------



## Jett Hitt

jamessy said:


> except when the same recordings have to cover both voices - wanting 2nds wasn't an unreasonable request, especially at the time when it was priced at $1000


I admit that at $1k I was surprised by this, but it's not $1k; it's $300. Pan your 2nds a bit differently, and you'll accomplish the same thing.


----------



## HarmonKard

Jett Hitt said:


> The only typical difference between 1st and 2nd violins in an orchestra is the ability of the players,


True! 


Jett Hitt said:


> 2nd violins are dominated and overpowered by 1st violins because of where they sit in the register.


Not true! 



Jett Hitt said:


> What conductor wouldn't want two 1st violin sections were it an option?


We are not conductors, tho. We are composers, some of whom need to deliver music to clients and libraries. Fact is, 1st and 2nd violins in unison, which is how they play much of the time, sound fuller and richer than 1st Violins alone. PSS does not give you that option, w/o pitch shifting, which as pointed out earlier several times, is not a good option.


----------



## jamessy

Jett Hitt said:


> I admit that at $1k I was surprised by this, but it's not $1k; it's $300. Pan your 2nds a bit differently, and you'll accomplish the same thing.


i think most of the 2nd violins talk has died down because of the price change. it's just a running joke now, or people sharing their plans for workarounds. in general it's not a huge deal it's just that with it being probably the most anticipated strings library i've come across since i've been drifting along on this board, it would have been nice, that's all


----------



## polynaeus

Would everyone pay for a 2nd violins expansion lib? Pretty sure I would.

Seems like Jasper is contracting the string players and room enough that he could reasonably do this.


----------



## doctoremmet

Scroll back approx. 50 and 100 pages; this discussion has taken place and all pro’s, con’s and arguments that humanly could have been dreamt up, have been made.


----------



## Casiquire

Jett Hitt said:


> The only typical difference between 1st and 2nd violins in an orchestra is the ability of the players, and in professional orchestras, even that isn't an issue.


Funny enough i often prefer the performance from the seconds. Maybe they're not "as good" but maybe that also means "more human" in sampling. Also because of their directional sound and smaller sections, they're often a warmer and more detailed texture too. The transposition trick darkens the sound a bit which is perfect.


----------



## dzilizzi

I like music said:


> Hopefully my CSS OR the kontakt transposition stuff will do the trick. Or in some cases where the lines don't ever intersect (my music is too simple) I'll just pretend another instance of the 1st violins are the 2nd violins.


As long as they don't play the same notes, I can't see how it would be a problem. Maybe change the reverb predelay a bit?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Somebody pointed out earlier in this thread that it’s like Jasper deliberately adds a drawback/“handicap“ of a sort to every library he makes.

i.e. finally he’s recording a full string library instead of a legato-only-library, but then he decides not to record 2nd violins.


----------



## Honko

Can somebody explain the transposition trick? I’m new to composing orchestral music


----------



## doctoremmet

Honko said:


> Can somebody explain the transposition trick? I’m new to composing orchestral music








Can someone explain the "transposition trick" to me?


I feel like I am an outsider looking in at a club that didn't invite me. I am going through Alexander's Scoring Stages 1, and he keeps referring to the "transposition trick" when talking about faking extra instruments using existing patches to make larger sections. I also see it mentioned a lot...




vi-control.net


----------



## dzilizzi

Honko said:


> Can somebody explain the transposition trick? I’m new to composing orchestral music


It is easy to do in Kontakt with the pitch setting.


----------



## MelodicAdagio

Honko said:


> Can somebody explain the transposition trick? I’m new to composing orchestral music


It's pretty simple. Open up Kontakt on the loaded sample in question. In the upper right center of the Kontakt window, drag the Tune dial -2 semitones. It will now play a step low. This should take into account those libraries that are whole tone sampled; i.e., you really are triggering a completely different sample than the original note. (Some like to do 3 semitones instead, but avoid 1 semitone to be safe.)

Then have the DAW transpose it back up the same number of semitones to compensate. In my case I use Cubase, so I go to the MIDI Modifiers section on the track and click the Transpose up arrow twice so that it reads 2. But whatever DAW you have, you should have the ability to transpose like this.

This is done to avoid phasing. If, for example, you created an absent 2nd violin section by duplicating the 1st violins, when they play the same note in unison they will actually be triggering different samples if you used the transposition trick.

There's also a way to handle the second transposition step right in Kontakt, but it's a little more complicated, so I just use the DAW to handle the transposition.


----------



## Honko

Thank you guys, appreciate it


----------



## Trash Panda

MelodicAdagio said:


> There's also a way to handle the second transposition step right in Kontakt, but it's a little more complicated, so I just use the DAW to handle the transposition.


It's just opening the instruments option under the Kontakt wrench screen and changing the instrument transposition value in the opposite direction. Not really complicated.


----------



## MelodicAdagio

Trash Panda said:


> It's just opening the instruments option under the Kontakt wrench screen and changing the instrument transposition value in the opposite direction. Not really complicated.


You're right. I recall someone demonstrating a more complicated way of getting there. Either way, transpose back up as the final step and all is good.


----------



## jbuhler

Jett Hitt said:


> The only typical difference between 1st and 2nd violins in an orchestra is the ability of the players, and in professional orchestras, even that isn't an issue. 2nd violins are dominated and overpowered by 1st violins because of where they sit in the register. That's why the best players are in the 1st violin section. What conductor wouldn't want two 1st violin sections were it an option? Jasper--the fellow who made the library you're all salivating over and who wrote the music above--understands this. If your 1st violin patch won't adequately perform your 2nd violin part, something is terribly wrong.


Well, without a separate section they won’t be seated quite properly and you have to use the transposition trick. Second violin sections also often have a slightly different tone, maybe because of where they are seated, maybe because they tend to be low position specialists. That’s likely less true for ad hoc recording sessions.


----------



## Jett Hitt

jbuhler said:


> Well, without a separate section they won’t be seated quite properly and you have to use the transposition trick. Second violin sections also often have a slightly different tone, maybe because of where they are seated, maybe because they tend to be low position specialists. That’s likely less true for ad hoc recording sessions.


The transposition trick is only necessary if the two sections are playing in unison, and apparently, a lot of people here use this texture a lot. Personally, I don't. Occasionally on a big middle register tune, but it certainly wouldn't be the predominant texture in my string writing.

I think the seating could easily be manipulated with panning, but personally, I just don't think it's that important. I seriously doubt that anyone has ever heard a recording and thought, "Oh my God, the 2nds are sitting in the same place as the 1sts."

It is a given that no two violin sections will sound the same because no two violins sound the same, but again, I just don't think that anyone will notice. Did anyone hear Jasper's examples and think this? I seriously doubt it.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Jett Hitt said:


> The transposition trick is only necessary if the two sections are playing in unison, and apparently, a lot of people here use this texture a lot. Personally, I don't. Occasionally on a big middle register tune, but it certainly wouldn't be the predominant texture in my string writing.
> 
> I think the seating could easily be manipulated with panning, but personally, I just don't think it's that important. I seriously doubt that anyone has ever heard a recording and thought, "Oh my God, the 2nds are sitting in the same place as the 1sts."
> 
> It is a given that no two violin sections will sound the same because no two violins sound the same, but again, I just don't think that anyone will notice. Did anyone hear Jasper's examples and think this? I seriously doubt it.


But if it matters so little if there are no 2nd violins recorded then why do pretty much all other symphonic string library out there have them recorded?


----------



## Trash Panda

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> But if it matters so little if there are no 2nd violins recorded then why do pretty much all other symphonic string library out there have them recorded?


Have you seen what happens around here when a string library is released without second strings? 

No dev wants that backlash except ones like Jasper, who will just Soup Nazi your ass for complaining too hard. 😆


----------



## R.G.

Jett Hitt said:


> The only typical difference between 1st and 2nd violins in an orchestra is the ability of the players, and in professional orchestras, even that isn't an issue. 2nd violins are dominated and overpowered by 1st violins because of where they sit in the register. That's why the best players are in the 1st violin section. What conductor wouldn't want two 1st violin sections were it an option?


1sts are no better than 2nds, and the parts for most scores from the late Romantic onward tend to be of more or less equal challenge, it's just that some of the challenges are different. Parity between the two sections is essential and maintained, and the 2nds are not considered inferior.

To play 2nd you have to learn skills that are not required much in the solo literature, which is an additional challenge since the solo literature is largely what students are focused on (and drilled on) at conservatories and the like.

Some orchestras even rotate their non-leader positions from time to time to keep players fresh, and their technique more in balance. And when a call goes out for an open spot, whether it be in the 1sts or 2nds, the audition material is largely the same if not identical, and they won't hire anyone for a 2nds spot they wouldn't hire for one in the 1st.


----------



## Casiquire

Wait, when did he become mean and cruel rather than just extra hands-off after release? 😂


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Damn. I’m so tired of this part of this conversation. 😂


----------



## Reznov981

Baronvonheadless said:


> Damn. I’m so tired of this part of this conversation. 😂


Allow me to change the pace.
Let's speculate!
I reckon:
The library will have 62, 807 samples
It will be 112GB
40% of people who buy Pacific Strings in the first 2 months will have bought Con Moto Basses in the last month.
I will not buy it because I don't have the money, but deeply deeply lament this later on when everyone is claiming it's the best orchestral string library ever.

Your turn to guess


----------



## Reznov981

polynaeus said:


> Would everyone pay for a 2nd violins expansion lib? Pretty sure I would.
> 
> Seems like Jasper is contracting the string players and room enough that he could reasonably do this.


Your username nearly sounds like poly-anus


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Reznov981 said:


> Your username nearly sounds like poly-anus


I would have laughed so hard of this back in 1978 when I was 6!


----------



## Reznov981

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I would have laughed so hard of this back in 1978 when I was 6!


You know what, I'll take it!
I meant no offence to the user 😂 just trying to keep things light-hearted, though hoping it wasn't brash 🫣


----------



## polynaeus

Reznov981 said:


> Your username nearly sounds like poly-anus


But it doesn’t. So that makes you the ass.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Yeah, I’m wondering how large pacific will be as well and how much space I’ll need for it.


----------



## polynaeus

Baronvonheadless said:


> Yeah, I’m wondering how large pacific will be as well and how much space I’ll need for it.


Someone said an approximation of 35-40gb minimum for the final product.


----------



## jbuhler

Jett Hitt said:


> The transposition trick is only necessary if the two sections are playing in unison, and apparently, a lot of people here use this texture a lot. Personally, I don't. Occasionally on a big middle register tune, but it certainly wouldn't be the predominant texture in my string writing.
> 
> I think the seating could easily be manipulated with panning, but personally, I just don't think it's that important. I seriously doubt that anyone has ever heard a recording and thought, "Oh my God, the 2nds are sitting in the same place as the 1sts."
> 
> It is a given that no two violin sections will sound the same because no two violins sound the same, but again, I just don't think that anyone will notice. Did anyone hear Jasper's examples and think this? I seriously doubt it.


No doubt you are correct—that mostly it will wash out in the mix. I also like second violins for the redundancy they provide: there's a potential second set of performances you have access to. 


Henrik B. Jensen said:


> But if it matters so little if there are no 2nd violins recorded then why do pretty much all other symphonic string library out there have them recorded?


I think they matter more than many here are willing to recognize because they are tired of the conversation. Which fair enough. Jasper also doesn't believe it's worth the time and expense and it's his library to decide which trade offs he wants to make. Also fair enough. And it is also true that many things matter far more to a string library than whether it has second violins, and many of us use a single clarinet instrument, say, to cover all the clarinet parts, so it's not like we're not doing this kind of thing all the time. But I find second violins convenient, and I'd really hate to see developers routinely skipping making them.


----------



## Jett Hitt

jbuhler said:


> No doubt you are correct—that mostly it will wash out in the mix. I also like second violins for the redundancy they provide: there's a potential second set of performances you have access to.
> 
> I think they matter more than many here are willing to recognize because they are tired of the conversation. Which fair enough. Jasper also doesn't believe it's worth the time and expense and it's his library to decide which trade offs he wants to make. Also fair enough. And it is also true that many things matter far more to a string library than whether it has second violins, and many of us use a single clarinet instrument, say, to cover all the clarinet parts, so it's not like we're not doing this kind of thing all the time. But I find second violins convenient, and I'd really hate to see developers routinely skipping making them.


The redundancy is indeed desirable. It's not that I don't want 2nd violins, just that I can live without them, as your clarinet example so aptly illustrates.


----------



## I like music

jbuhler said:


> No doubt you are correct—that mostly it will wash out in the mix. I also like second violins for the redundancy they provide: there's a potential second set of performances you have access to.
> 
> I think they matter more than many here are willing to recognize because they are tired of the conversation. Which fair enough. Jasper also doesn't believe it's worth the time and expense and it's his library to decide which trade offs he wants to make. Also fair enough. And it is also true that many things matter far more to a string library than whether it has second violins, and many of us use a single clarinet instrument, say, to cover all the clarinet parts, so it's not like we're not doing this kind of thing all the time. But I find second violins convenient, and I'd really hate to see developers routinely skipping making them.


So Jasper's also not recording a second clarinet for Pacific Strings?

FFS, that guy...


----------



## Vlzmusic

I like music said:


> So Jasper's also not recording a second clarinet for Pacific Strings?
> 
> FFS, that guy...


False, WW are pairs...


----------



## Guffy

Wasnt this gonna release in July?
Hes probably thinking.. "ah well since i didnt make that deadline i might as well push it to next month.... or christmas"


----------



## doctoremmet

Guffy said:


> Wasnt this gonna release in July?
> Hes probably thinking.. "ah well since i didnt make that deadline i might as well push it to next month.... or christmas"


It was. Due to health reasons it was delayed, but it will still see a release soon.


----------



## I like music

Y'all better have tunes ready to go in your DAWs, so that when this is released, we can hear lots of examples!


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

I like music said:


> Y'all better have tunes ready to go in your DAWs, so that when this is released, we can hear lots of examples!


Across the Stars is almost ready and only waiting for the strings to be inserted


----------



## FireGS

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Across the Stars is almost ready and only waiting for the strings to be inserted


PM me what you have so far. Would love to hear.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

FireGS said:


> PM me what you have so far. Would love to hear.


I'm on vacation rn - but I can send it to you this weekend! 

Edit: To keep expectations low I should probably mention that I only did a mockup of the second half or last third of the piece though


----------



## jamwerks

FWIW, I'm one who for all my string libraries have moved the Second Violins to the far right, effectively having them and Celli trade places. This of course requires some panning tricks, etc.

As a test one time for my SCS library, I decided to not use the real Second Violins, but rather just reuse the First Violins & inverting the L-R panning. That way the placement on the far right was spacially perfect, but I did miss the varied timbre of having different instruments for the two violin sections. It's kinda like having two lead guitars that are both Strats, instead of one Strat & one Les Paul.

Myself, having the two instrument on opposite sides of the stereo field, it will be less of an "issue". But the advances in realism that this library will bring will probably make us all forget that extra 10% of having two different violin sections.


----------



## jbuhler

jamwerks said:


> Myself, having the two instrument on opposite sides of the stereo field, it will be less of an "issue". But the advances in realism that this library will bring will probably make us all forget that extra 10% of having two different violin sections.


I think this is right, and for some reason the significant price drop has also altered my feelings on how bothered I am about the library not having second violins. I still prefer having them in a library but the new price seems more in line with a library only having one section of violins, and it is a condition I can work with and around.


----------



## I like music

jbuhler said:


> I think this is right, and for some reason the significant price drop has also altered my feelings on how bothered I am about the library not having second violins. I still prefer having them in a library but the new price seems more in line with a library only having one section of violins, and it is a condition I can work with and around.


My thinking is that if it is a unison line, then I'll just chuck CSS 1s + 2s together as unisons and they'll become the violins 2 (hoping they don't sound TOO different), but since it is unison, it won't matter a great deal since it should still create a nice sound.

And if they aren't unison lines, then a 2nd instance of violins 1 from Pacific will do just fine.


----------



## dzilizzi

I remember when Andrew came here to discuss a potential string library that became Tokyo Scoring Strings. One of the questions was more articulations/round robins or 2nd violins. 

You will note that TSS has second violins.


----------



## polynaeus

What if the delay was because Jasper was working on Audio Imperia’s 2nd violins for their string lib.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Multipdf

I think Spitfire Audio might have got in quickly with the delay in the release of Pacific Strings because, as I have their solo strings, they are advertising a ‘Bundle’ which includes the Pro version of BBC Orchestra for just over €400……it is only the lovely Pacific Sordino Strings sound that is preventing me……….


----------



## doctoremmet

Multipdf said:


> I think Spitfire Audio might have got in quickly with the delay in the release of Pacific Strings because, as I have their solo strings, they are advertising a ‘Bundle’ which includes the Pro version of BBC Orchestra for just over €400……it is only the lovely Pacific Sordino Strings sound that is preventing me……….


The SA bundle tempted me too until I found out they work with second violins.


----------



## Jett Hitt

doctoremmet said:


> The SA bundle tempted me too until I found out they work with second violins.


Oh, I solved this problem. I just deleted the second violins from my BBCSO Pro.


----------



## Multipdf

I can't wait to hear the 2nd's sordino sound......


----------



## Trash Panda

Jett Hitt said:


> Oh, I solved this problem. I just deleted the second violins from my BBCSO Pro.


Why stop with the second violins?


----------



## jbuhler

Trash Panda said:


> Why stop with the second violins?


I hear that if you delete BBCSO from your system that you will find that N has somehow replaced it.


----------



## doctoremmet

jbuhler said:


> I hear that if you delete BBCSO from your system that you will find that N has somehow replaced it.


I can confirm that buying and subsequently deleting BBCSO from a drive is ONE of the conditions that make you eligible for receiving N. But there are more


----------



## Trash Panda

doctoremmet said:


> I can confirm that buying and subsequently deleting BBCSO from a drive is ONE of the conditions that make you eligible for receiving N. But there are more


This is quickly starting to sound like the rumors surrounding how to unlock your Force Sensitive character in the original version of Star Wars Galaxies...


----------



## doctoremmet

Trash Panda said:


> This is quickly starting to sound like the rumors surrounding how to unlock your Force Sensitive character in the original version of Star Wars Galaxies...


Indeed, one of the other conditions does revolve around playing this game - but it HAS to be from the original Wii U cart


----------



## jazzman7

I have N automatically enabled on my System. Best move I ever made


----------



## doctoremmet

jazzman7 said:


> I have N automatically enabled on my System. Best move I ever made


Ah. A chosen one. Hail to thee.


----------



## jazzman7

doctoremmet said:


> Ah. A chosen one. Hail to thee.


Nothing to it!


----------



## I like music

Just heard from Jasper.
He says there will be 2nd violins.
But to access them, you'll need a dongle.
What to do?


----------



## Trash Panda

doctoremmet said:


> Indeed, one of the other conditions does revolve around playing this game - but it HAS to be from the original Wii U cart


I want to play along, but my OCD can't allow this to pass. :(

It was a PC title and the Wii U used discs, not carts.


----------



## Trash Panda

I like music said:


> Just heard from Jasper.
> He says there will be 2nd violins.
> But to access them, you'll need a dongle.
> What to do?


----------



## doctoremmet

Trash Panda said:


> I want to play along, but my OCD can't allow this to pass. :(
> 
> It was a PC title and the Wii U used discs, not carts.


Congratulations! Level 2 of N has been unlocked!!!!


----------



## Multipdf

Isn't it true if you remove one of the 5 'senses', the other 4 become stronger?........


----------



## doctoremmet

I like music said:


> Just heard from Jasper.
> He says there will be 2nd violins.
> But to access them, you'll need a dongle.
> What to do?


He has bought eLicenser off of Steinberg has he?


----------



## Trash Panda

Multipdf said:


> Isn't it true if you remove one of the 5 'senses', the other 4 become stronger?........


That was a typo. It's actually if you remove one of the 5 senseis, the other 4 become stronger. In the end, there can be only one.


----------



## I like music

doctoremmet said:


> He has bought eLicenser off of Steinberg has he?


His life's ambition


----------



## Pianolando

That last example sounded amazing! 😳


----------



## Reznov981

Reading back over the last page here, I can verify that we have waited so long for Pacific that we have actually cracked. You're all insane, and Jasper wins. Perhaps this was his plan all along, creating malnourished, raving lunatics who will huddle together for warmth outside, waiting for the next freebie to be thrown our way so we can fight for it in a frenzy like it's an uncooked steak.


----------



## FrozenIcicle

I don’t get why people can’t understand PS is just Jasper’s “crumbs” that he releases to the public for extra bit of cash. He dgaf about support, release dates, or what ever the market wants. If it makes money then great! Extra bonus for him.


----------



## doctoremmet

FrozenIcicle said:


> I don’t get why people can’t understand PS is just Jasper’s “crumbs” that he releases to the public for extra bit of cash. He dgaf about support, release dates, or what ever the market wants. If it makes money then great! Extra bonus for him.


The guy’s actual cash cow is eLicenser insurance premiums - duh


----------



## CT

FrozenIcicle said:


> I don’t get why people can’t understand PS is just Jasper’s “crumbs” that he releases to the public for extra bit of cash. He dgaf about support, release dates, or what ever the market wants. If it makes money then great! Extra bonus for him.


----------



## NickDorito

It's never coming out, part 6 (expected Q1 2023) (delayed mid-late 2023) (December 2nd 2023)


----------



## Kyle Preston

mussnig said:


> And another one.



As a long-standing card carrying member of the Legato task force, I must say I'm totally overwhelmed by how astounding these sound. Vista already makes my head explode on a daily basis. Pacific might kill me.


----------



## Reznov981

Casiquire said:


> This is the greatest thing. I've never even heard your music but it's way underrated


I'm a bit late, but here you go. I wonder what this will sound like with Pacific replacing BBCSO?


----------



## I like music

I used to casually enjoy this thread, and not pay particular mind to the fact that Pacific hadn't been released/was delayed. I didn't much care.
But since I bought Con Moto Basses (and decided finally that I needed Pacific) I now know how some people feel.
So... when's it coming out again? Are we closer to one week away or four weeks (or do we not know?) Didn't actually manage to retain that info through reading this thread.


----------



## djb78

From what I've been reading I don't think anyone (apart from Jasper!) knows....Confident it's going to be awesome though based on what I've heard and Jasper's previous libraries... Hope it is very soon though as can't take it much longer!!


----------



## doctoremmet

I like music said:


> I used to casually enjoy this thread, and not pay particular mind to the fact that Pacific hadn't been released/was delayed. I didn't much care.
> But since I bought Con Moto Basses (and decided finally that I needed Pacific) I now know how some people feel.
> So... when's it coming out again? Are we closer to one week away or four weeks (or do we not know?) Didn't actually manage to retain that info through reading this thread.


It is only a matter of a couple more posts, and I’ll be calling you I Like Muziksculp


----------



## I like music

doctoremmet said:


> It is only a matter of a couple more posts, and I’ll be calling you I Like Muziksculp


You've noticed that he and I almost never post at the same time?


----------



## Raphioli

I like music said:


> So... when's it coming out again? Are we closer to one week away or four weeks (or do we not know?)



I think he may have stopped giving any time frame, to avoid having to delay it again. 
And the only thing we know is that the library is in "late beta stage".

But since he's a perfectionist, there might be a Charlie/Delta/Echo... stage too.
And "P" wouldn't be "Papa", it would be "Pacific" 

Jokes aside, at this point, I'd be happy to pre-order(pay upfront) to get access to the beta lol


----------



## I like music

djb78 said:


> From what I've been reading I don't think anyone (apart from Jasper!) knows....Confident it's going to be awesome though based on what I've heard and Jasper's previous libraries... Hope it is very soon though as can't take it much longer!!


Got it, thanks! Yeah, looking forward to it.


----------



## Denkii

The reintroductory sale for con moto and others are running until August 26th.
I guess if there's no further delay, a back to back release for pacific would make most sense so I'm hoping for early September right now.
If there's another delay, we'll be informed.

Time for tea.


----------



## Denkii

Reznov981 said:


> I'm a bit late, but here you go. I wonder what this will sound like with Pacific replacing BBCSO?


A bit less fwaaaaa and definitely a lot more maaatidaaaa


----------



## I like music

They updated their YT channel with a legato screencast today (it happens to be the Soundcloud track that was linked here a few days ago). So clearly there is some activity going on, somewhere.


----------



## NickDorito

Hey all,

I have some very exciting news to share with everyone. Today I've decided to not purchase Pacific Strings the very minute it comes out, and instead, I will hold out for the following 6-8 weeks for user reviews, demos, and potentially hear about the "forthcoming" Audio Imperia string library so I can hopefully be able to compare the two.

So given my luck waiting for this library so far, expect this to come out tomorrow. I'm Nick Dorito and I'm very excited today. Good night everyone


----------



## dyvoid

You are the real hero of this thread!


----------



## soulofsound

Are second violins like second breakfast?


----------



## I like music

soulofsound said:


> Are second violins like second breakfast?


More like elevensies


----------



## Reznov981

NickDorito said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have some very exciting news to share with everyone. Today I've decided to not purchase Pacific Strings the very minute it comes out, and instead, I will hold out for the following 6-8 weeks for user reviews, demos, and potentially hear about the "forthcoming" Audio Imperia string library so I can hopefully be able to compare the two.
> 
> So given my luck waiting for this library so far, expect this to come out tomorrow. I'm Nick Dorito and I'm very excited today. Good night everyone


One difference between Pacific and the Audio Imperia library (I assume you're referrring to the collaboration with Jasper and AI) is that Pacific is symphonic size and the collab with AI will be chamber size, so they're theoretically for pretty different purposes - chamber size goes 'baaaa' and the symphony goes 'BAAAAA'. Voyage will then be another chamber sized library from Jasper (date of release currently estimated to be 2030-2040), but I think will have more experimental features/playing styles in the more traditional Performance Samples spirit.
Hope there's a useful nugget of something here among the garbage I spouted.


----------



## Reznov981

NickDorito said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have some very exciting news to share with everyone. Today I've decided to not purchase Pacific Strings the very minute it comes out, and instead, I will hold out for the following 6-8 weeks for user reviews, demos, and potentially hear about the "forthcoming" Audio Imperia string library so I can hopefully be able to compare the two.
> 
> So given my luck waiting for this library so far, expect this to come out tomorrow. I'm Nick Dorito and I'm very excited today. Good night everyone


But hey good on you for being a happy little chip. I'm a big fan, especially of your cheese supreme variety.


----------



## polynaeus

Hey Jasper mind releasing Pacific… like now… cuz the Spitfire sale is vying for dollars saved for Pacific!


----------



## Raphioli

polynaeus said:


> Hey Jasper mind releasing Pacific… like now… cuz the Spitfire sale is vying for dollars saved for Pacific!


----------



## Scalms

Raphioli said:


>


Jasper looks alot like Kevin Costner i must say, 

and are those swirling bumpy legatos behind him?


----------



## polynaeus

Scalms said:


> Jasper looks alot like Kevin Costner i must say,
> 
> and are those swirling bumpy legatos behind him?


Bumpy and sucking legatos.


----------



## Raphioli

Scalms said:


> Jasper looks alot like Kevin Costner i must say,
> 
> and are those swirling bumpy legatos behind him?


lol It has nothing to do with the quality of the legatos.
As a matter of fact, I think the legatos are great, especially after hearing the recent demos.

I initially thought of adding "need more time to add 2nd violins", instead of "Perfecting Legato", but thought the 2nd violins joke was overused, so went with legato perfection instead


----------



## I like music

Can't overuse something that was never recorded! 


Raphioli said:


> lol It has nothing to do with the quality of the legatos.
> As a matter of fact, I think the legatos are great, especially after hearing the recent demos.
> 
> I initially thought of adding "need more time to add 2nd violins", instead of "Perfecting Legato", but thought the 2nd violins joke was overused, so went with legato perfection instead


----------



## Denkii

I like music said:


> Can't overuse something that was never recorded!


Just like my good pieces.


----------



## ism

Raphioli said:


> thought the 2nd violins joke was overused



Someone with the courage to speak the truth at last!


----------



## Trash Panda

Raphioli said:


> but thought the 2nd violins joke was overused


----------



## Scalms

Raphioli said:


> lol It has nothing to do with the quality of the legatos.
> As a matter of fact, I think the legatos are great, especially after hearing the recent demos.
> 
> I initially thought of adding "need more time to add 2nd violins", instead of "Perfecting Legato", but thought the 2nd violins joke was overused, so went with legato perfection instead


I'm only 99.97% fed up with 2nd violins jokes, one more would have been okay,

although posts 3151 through 3154, and i think perhaps even this post now counts too, 

so yeah... now we've gone over the edge with 2nd violins jokes,

should we move onto 3rd Violins jokes or did we already go there? can someone go back and check please?


----------



## Saxer

Don't fight. Violins is never a solution.


----------



## Noeticus

Saxer said:


> Don't fight. Violins is never a solution.


I second that.

hahahahhahahaha


----------



## polynaeus

Are the “Whisper Sustains” similar to flautando?


----------



## CT

Yes. It's sort of a hybrid of flautando/sul tasto type bowing and harmonics in the higher registers.


----------



## Cass Hansen

Since Pacific has again been delayed, (and my GAS level was reaching critical mass), I decided to deflate it (along with my wallet) and bought con moto.

I quickly made this one minute ditty (a tango of sorts) to put the library through its paces-- legatos, sustains, portatos. Also bought Fluid Shorts so I’d have spiccatos to layer with con moto to make marcatos and accented notes. (Fluid and Con motto were recorded in the same hall by the way.)

I find the second violins (violins B) really compliment the first and fit together like a glove as they should so I don’t regret getting that section. I wasn’t going to get Pacific because of the lack of second violins (yeah, yeah….not trying to add fuel here J … it’s because of the way I like to write for strings, I need both sections. )

Because Pacific and Con motto were recorded in the same hall (Vista was in a different hall I believe) I plan to “transposition trick” the eight second violins in con motto to get 16 players which I believe is the number of first violin players in Pacific. Same hall but different recording techniques so my hope is the sections will match well enough and produce a blend that sounds natural together. We’ll see.

Also plan to try layering con motto with Pacific for those occasions that require a more focused sound with more clarity since larger ensembles usually don’t have that kind of detail but what I’ve heard so far of Pacific that might not be the case.

And this goes out to muziksculp……….get the second Violins…….remember, you can never, never have enough string …………............…sections.

Cass


----------



## CT

MartinH. said:


> Do you have any insights from beta testing? I'd love to know what you (or other beta testers) think about the pacific solo strings compared to the spitfire solo strings.


Sorry, I forgot about this until now. I've not yet had the chance to try the solo strings. I think the cello freebie is probably pretty representative of what to expect vs. the Spitfire soloists. That is, primarily, a much smoother legato character and overall more focused musicality.


----------



## Ricgus3

Cass Hansen said:


> Since Pacific has again been delayed, (and my GAS level was reaching critical mass), I decided to deflate it (along with my wallet) and bought con moto.
> 
> I quickly made this one minute ditty (a tango of sorts) to put the library through its paces-- legatos, sustains, portatos. Also bought Fluid Shorts so I’d have spiccatos to layer with con moto to make marcatos and accented notes. (Fluid and Con motto were recorded in the same hall by the way.)
> 
> I find the second violins (violins B) really compliment the first and fit together like a glove as they should so I don’t regret getting that section. I wasn’t going to get Pacific because of the lack of second violins (yeah, yeah….not trying to add fuel here J … it’s because of the way I like to write for strings, I need both sections. )
> 
> Because Pacific and Con motto were recorded in the same hall (Vista was in a different hall I believe) I plan to “transposition trick” the eight second violins in con motto to get 16 players which I believe is the number of first violin players in Pacific. Same hall but different recording techniques so my hope is the sections will match well enough and produce a blend that sounds natural together. We’ll see.
> 
> Also plan to try layering con motto with Pacific for those occasions that require a more focused sound with more clarity since larger ensembles usually don’t have that kind of detail but what I’ve heard so far of Pacific that might not be the case.
> 
> And this goes out to muziksculp……….get the second Violins…….remember, you can never, never have enough string …………............…sections.
> 
> Cass



Sounds really good! Do you mind sharing the midi for me to try with appasionata And Areia?to compare the sounds and playability


----------



## Cass Hansen

Ricgus3 said:


> Sounds really good! Do you mind sharing the midi for me to try with appasionata And Areia?to compare the sounds and playability


Sure thing! Like I said, it's done quickly so excuse the irregularities. Violas and cellos have lots of divisi sections and not being a divisi library I didn't do the regular tricks for non-divisi libraries such as lowering the track volume, filtering, and compression (without makeup gain and fast attk) to get it to sound like divisi. So you can probably make it sound better. The shorts are mostly layered for marcato and some staccato. Thanks for the feedback though, appreciated!
Cass


----------



## IdealSequenceG

Performance Samples Pacific - Solo Cello Legato Test


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Where was the delay on pacific mentioned?


----------



## doctoremmet

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Where was the delay on pacific mentioned?


Post 2916


----------



## Vik

Saxer said:


> Don't fight. Violins is never a solution.







I know you play sax, but going this far in promoting non-violins is a little over the top IMO.


----------



## Pougrivioure

I'm starting to believe that JB didn't record VL2 in order to keep this thread alive on VI control.


----------



## FinGael

Pougrivioure said:


> I'm starting to believe that JB didn't record VL2 in order to keep this thread alive on VI control.


Darn. Did you have to say it aloud? Don't be surprised if, ahem, certain bigger companies, from now on release their libraries without second violins. 

in b4 marketing folks: "Let's drop the cellos too!"

=> "Native Instrumentalists introduce their new standard in complete symphonic orchestras: First Violins Only (FVO Professional coming soon (includes only a fiddle))".


----------



## FrozenIcicle

FinGael said:


> Darn. Did you have to say it aloud? Don't be surprised if, ahem, certain bigger companies, from now on release their libraries without second violins.
> 
> in b4 marketing agencies: "Let's drop the cellos too!"


Spitfire already drops legato


----------



## Saxer

FrozenIcicle said:


> Spitfire already drops legato


Even better: they sell it separately.


----------



## Denkii

They stole that idea from Vista though


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Just sayin’!


----------



## artinro

Super surprised that 2nds are a higher priority than dynamics or RR. You’d quite obviously notice a lack of dynamics and round robins before you’d notice a lack of 2nds. So I’m firmly in the dyn/RR category. I’m glad Jasper is too.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

artinro said:


> Super surprised that 2nds are a higher priority than dynamics or RR. You’d quite obviously notice a lack of dynamics and round robins before you’d notice a lack of 2nds. So I’m firmly in the dyn/RR category. I’m glad Jasper is too.


The poll shows that 2nds are a higher priority than *more* dynamics or RR - i.e. more, compared to whatever the baseline was described as from the developer.


----------



## Denkii

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> The poll shows that 2nds are a higher priority than *more* dynamics or RR - i.e. more, compared to whatever the baseline was described as from the developer.


Which was already more than a lot of competitors. In that case I understood the result of the poll.


----------



## artinro

Personally I’d still always prefer another dynamic layer or more RR to 2nds. My preference would be for the best possible single section over 2 “lesser” sections.


----------



## muk

If a library is recorded in situ, I like it to have first and second violin sections. Last time I looked second violins sat on their own chairs, not on the laps of the first violins. That spatial difference is exactly why you record in situ in the first place. It just sounds different than panning things around. Having first violins and second violins, both recorded in their actual seating positions in the particular recording venue, sounds different than manipulating the stereo image of one section to use it twice. In the latter case, you can't have your faked sections play in unison either. Unless you use the transposition trick. Wich changes the timbre quite a bit for strings, and also places the empty strings on the wrong notes. It's possible to do so, but it's a makeshift solution. Better to not have to do it. To have another set of recordings with a slightly different timbre is another bonus.
If the choice is between having a second violins section and another dynamic layer, I'd almost always prefer the former. For libraries recorded in situ, that is. 

For libraries that have been recorded in the center of the room, like 8dio does for instance, a second violins section isn't necessary in my opinion. Here you have to pan things around anyway.


----------



## mikeh-375

artinro said:


> Super surprised that 2nds are a higher priority than dynamics or RR. You’d quite obviously notice a lack of dynamics and round robins before you’d notice a lack of 2nds. So I’m firmly in the dyn/RR category. I’m glad Jasper is too.


Tbh, I'm super surprised at the lack of 2nds if orchestral music is the end game....


----------



## mikeh-375

..........oooops......


----------



## artinro

mikeh-375 said:


> Tbh, I'm super surprised at the lack of 2nds if orchestral music is the end game....


Would I like 2nds? Sure. Absolutely. Would I prefer a developer spend limited recording time and budget on them vs. additional dynamics / rr? Unequivocally no.

I work exclusively on orchestral music.


----------



## mikeh-375

artinro said:


> *...........*I work exclusively on orchestral music.


me too.
My classical background wont let me accept a string section without 2nds unless a score is deliberately scored without them, it's a curse, I know. In general I feel as though a valuable and individual resource is lost both sonically and musically without them...I'm still buying though and I'll get around the limitation because they sound great.
I certainly get and agree with the dynamic layer and RR reasoning, I just want it all...


----------



## WhiteNoiz

I guess he could always make an expansion if it sells that well...? He could make it somewhat modular if there's that much interest in its development and he deems it worth. More arts/sections... Although I get that could get in the way of the Voyage.  Then again, this feels a lot like a sidegig (as has been mentioned). We'll see I guess.

(I get a lot of SF Symphonic/Chamber approach vibes from this)


----------



## jbuhler

When Pacific was going to be one of the priciest string libraries available, no second violins seemed a major oversight because that kind of pricing seemed to imply a comprehensiveness to the library that it couldn’t be without seconds. Now that its pricing is more modest not having seconds seems in line with the kind of tradeoffs you’d expect at this price point. (Indeed the new price point with the loyalty discount makes it seem a real bargain.) In any case that was my path to becoming unconcerned about the lack of seconds.


----------



## AndyP

The new price is reasonable enough for me to be in, even without 2nd .. cheers ... I need a break ...


----------



## Loerpert

I decided to get Hans Zimmer Strings to get the second and third violins.


----------



## Banquet

I’m hoping that Spitfire Apassionata V1/V2 might make a decent 2nd violin substitute


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Can someone who's been beta testing this library tell us how they are resource-wise? Currently, for me the demo patches such as the spiccato ensembles have crashed my session a few times.


----------



## artinro

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Can someone who's been beta testing this library tell us how they are resource-wise? Currently, for me the demo patches such as the spiccato ensembles have crashed my session a few times.


Hi Neon. I’ve not run into any resource issues on my system while testing the patches. I just checked the demo ensemble spicc patch too on my system and no issues there either.


----------



## CT

It's been surprisingly light for me too, and my computer is certainly not cutting edge.


----------



## ibanez1

I'm visualizing an end of August release announcement and if all of you do it with me, maybe it will increase the chance it comes true .


----------



## Tinesaeriel

I saw the notification for this post pop up in my inbox and I literally muttered aloud to myself, "Here we go again!"

And after we'd all been so good for letting this thread sleep for almost a week!


----------



## ibanez1

I have the problem of looking at sample talk every day and half miraging an announcement reply to this thread with the release lol. I need to stop watching the pot boil. Any breadcrumbs if info that the beta testers throw our way are more than welcome


----------



## Raphioli

Checking for a "purchase" button to appear on the Pacific Strings web page is my daily routine


----------



## RonOrchComp

Raphioli said:


> Checking for a "purchase" button to appear on the Pacific Strings web page is my daily routine


Checking for a "we have decided to give PS 2nd violins" banner to appear on the Pacific Strings web page is MY daily routine


----------



## Casiquire

RonOrchComp said:


> Checking for a "we have decided to give PS 2nd violins" banner to appear on the Pacific Strings web page is MY daily routine


With a corresponding price bump back to the original announced price, and the whole forum melts


----------



## ibanez1

I'm taking the need to buy con moto basses for the intro price as a sign that jasper wants me to pitch shift them in as 2nd violins for pacific .


----------



## Argy Ottas




----------



## Marsen

Buy Pacific Strings twice, and make the first violins of your second purchase to the second violins of your first purchase!


----------



## Argy Ottas

Marsen said:


> Buy Pacific Strings twice, and make the first violins of your second purchase to the second violins of your first purchase!


Genius...


----------



## FrozenIcicle

I wish these libraries appeared on my kontakt list instead of quick load. I always forget I have purchased so many


----------



## dzilizzi

FrozenIcicle said:


> I wish these libraries appeared on my kontakt list instead of quick load. I always forget I have purchased so many


I have so many in the Kontakt list, it doesn't help.


----------



## Snarf

Wow, I can't believe it! Somehow the second violin joke gets funnier everytime it's brought up! You'd think the humor would be completely squeezed out at this point, but no! It just keeps getting better with each repetition! Literally unbelievable!


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Snarf said:


> Wow, I can't believe it! Somehow the second violin joke gets funnier everytime it's brought up! You'd think the humor would be completely squeezed out at this point, but no! It just keeps getting better with each repetition! Literally unbelievable!


I think we've had a lot of practice during the wait, so now we are basically professional second violins comedians


----------



## Denkii

We made sure there are a lot of round robins for that joke.
But since there's no second violins...there's no other joke. So if you're not a round robin enthusiast, you're out of luck.
Our sense of humour is not for purists I guess.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Imagine explaining the second violins joke to someone who doesn’t know anything about orchestral music and samples!


----------



## Denkii

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Imagine explaining the second violins joke to someone who doesn’t know anything about orchestral music and samples!


Uhhh...how about a car with only front wheels?
Wanting to buy a trike but they give you a bike?
Giving your child a bycicle but they can't ride it yet and instead to put stabilizers on you tell them to just transpose the two wheels they have and make it work.

Wow...i really like wheels today.


----------



## artomatic

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Imagine explaining the second violins joke to someone who doesn’t know anything about orchestral music and samples!




I second that!


----------



## Denkii

artomatic said:


> I second that!


Unlike how Jasper seconded the violins....

I'll see myself out.


----------



## jazzman7

dzilizzi said:


> I have so many in the Kontakt list, it doesn't help.


I'd like to come up with some method to attach images of the gui or fancy marketing covers to many of my VI's on a list of some sort for reference. Even better if I could shortcut to instruments! Of course, once things are up over several hundred titles that would be a heck of a slog. 

Not good for working within the DAW, but I'd like something along that line anyway. 

That sad, dinky file hierarchy in Kontakt doesn't help the cause much. 

I often just bring up windows explorer, click on an obscure one 
(out of at least 100 in my 3rd Kontakt drive alone) 
Blow the dust off and play with them a bit, or write little pieces.... just to keep my memory fresh. 

Guess I shouldn't complain. An embarrassment of riches!


----------



## Saxer

Shouldn't second hand violins be cheaper than the first violins?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Shouldn't be second hand violins be cheaper than the first violins?

Oh shoot, I now see I’m the second one posting this.


----------



## muk

How many seconds until release?


----------



## WhiteNoiz

Shouldn't be second hand violins be cheaper than the first violins?

Oh shoot, I now see I’m the third one posting this.



Spoiler



Keep going like this and we can make a section! Although, technically, I guess we're making a choir.


----------



## Raphioli

lol I didn't expect this many 2nd violin jokes in a short span


----------



## Denkii

It's insane how man articulations we already have for the second violins joke.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## mussnig

doctoremmet said:


>


Actually, it would be fun if @Mike Greene (or somebody else) would do a recap of the forum activity at the end of the year - giving away some fun badges for members and topics (maybe even combined with a poll).


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Denkii said:


> Unlike how Jasper seconded the violins....
> 
> I'll see myself out.


I have secondhand embarrassment for this attempt at a joke


----------



## Loerpert

doctoremmet said:


>


Will hang this tegeltjeswijsheid in my toilet. Thanks @doctoremmet


----------



## Loerpert

Maybe Stradivarius will start selling second violins that are slightly cheaper than the first violins they're making right now. Should make the sample recordings cheaper as well?


----------



## Raphioli

Marsen said:


> Buy Pacific Strings twice, and make the first violins of your second purchase to the second violins of your first purchase!


ok so here goes...

Does that mean if I keep on buying multiple copies of Pacific, I would be able to get 3rd, 4th and 5th violins and so on?

That means, if I keep on purchasing multiple copies of Pacific Strings, it would eventually get me "Infinite Strings" right?

(sorry ill put it to rest here)


----------



## I like music

I'm personally wishing for the delay to go on a bit longer. Just found the car developed an expensive fault. Couldn't buy PS now even if I wanted to.


----------



## Casiquire

mussnig said:


> Actually, it would be fun if @Mike Greene (or somebody else) would do a recap of the forum activity at the end of the year - giving away some fun badges for members and topics (maybe even combined with a poll).


And punishing members for letting things go off the rails. We're all doomed. I asked the mods to just kill me but they said a 30 day ban would be a bigger punishment so they're really not messing around


----------



## mussnig

Casiquire said:


> And punishing members for letting things go off the rails. We're all doomed. I asked the mods to just kill me but they said a 30 day ban would be a bigger punishment so they're really not messing around


Why would this be a punishment? Any such badge should be considered a badge of honor (with a good amount of humor, that is).


----------



## Noeticus

Okay, wait a minute. Calm down.

I just had an early dinner, and someone said they wanted seconds.

Can you believe it! Seconds!


----------



## Getsumen

Noeticus said:


> Okay, wait a minute. Calm down.
> 
> I just had an early dinner, and someone said they wanted seconds.
> 
> Can you believe it! Seconds!


I always prefer more layers of flavor in my meal, or a variety of ingredients instead


----------



## Baronvonheadless

So, I can't make it past the pages of second violin jokes to sift through enough, but did anyone notice or point out that the introduction price sale for the re-continued formerly discontinued products is ending soon....!!!!

Think Pacific Approaches??!


----------



## Reznov981

muk said:


> How many seconds until release?


I don't know, but I can tell you there will be none _upon_ release.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Baronvonheadless said:


> So, I can't make it past the pages of second violin jokes to sift through enough, but did anyone notice or point out that the introduction price sale for the re-continued formerly discontinued products is ending soon....!!!!
> 
> Think Pacific Approaches??!


reminded me to get the basses before the deal ends haha


----------



## Reznov981

Just want to confirm something that I got from Jasper the other day, which I wasn't aware of before:
_Pacific Solo Strings will only be a Violin and a Cello. (Not a quartet or quintet)_

Now I might have misinterpreted him, but I did check after and he didn't correct me. I'm only not sure at this point because it seems rather odd.


----------



## ibanez1

Reznov981 said:


> Just want to confirm something that I got from Jasper the other day, which I wasn't aware of before:
> _Pacific Solo Strings will only be a Violin and a Cello. (Not a quartet or quintet)_
> 
> Now I might have misinterpreted him, but I did check after and he didn't correct me. I'm only not sure at this point because it seems rather odd.


Poor violas and basses . No representation. Also no second solo violin which is the true crime


----------



## ism

How about we split this thread in two: one thread for endless endless endless and I do mean completely unendingly endless second violin jokes ( punctuated for by occasional "are we there yet queries" by people without the patience to sift through a hundred pages of second violin jokes in search of actual information), and a second thread containing any actual information about the library (should there ever be any)?

Just a thought


----------



## ibanez1

Alright no more 2nd violin derails. It is probably a good time to remind everyone to buy con moto basses before the sale ends to lock in the loyalty price as was stated earlier. I also bought fluid shorts and am loving that library as well.


----------



## Denkii

NeonMediaKJT said:


> reminded me to get the basses before the deal ends haha


Get the basses before the deal ends.

Edit: I'm stupid. I read "remind me..." And wanted to remind you. Nevermind me. *Enter Second violins joke here*


----------



## Noeticus

Okay, from now on I will not do any more yolks about leftovers.


----------



## jbuhler

ism said:


> How about we split this thread in two: one thread for endless endless endless and I do mean completely unendingly endless second violin jokes ( punctuated for by occasional "are we there yet queries" by people without the patience to sift through a hundred pages of second violin jokes in search of actual information), and a second thread containing any actual information about the library (should there ever be any)?
> 
> Just a thought


How would that functionally differ from our current situation since the second thread would be empty?


----------



## ism

jbuhler said:


> How would that functionally differ from our current situation since the second thread would be empty?


Well, for one thing, I could unsubscribe to the first one.


----------



## dzilizzi

ism said:


> Well, for one thing, I could unsubscribe to the first one.


How about we start a new thread once the library comes out. Then we can officially complain about how the lack of second violins messes up our compositions and the best libraries to use in its place instead of making jokes about it?

Then you can wait for the new thread and quit reading this one?


Yes, sorry. Just giving you a hard time. I think the jokes and nonsense talk is to keep the thread active because it keeps getting delayed. It happens every time there is a long delay between announcement and actual product release. It could be worse. BBCSO's thread was all about chocolate.


----------



## ansthenia

The 2nd violin jokes are what's keeping this thread going, because besides being something to joke about it really is the biggest point of contention regarding pacific strings. There is nothing else to say about the library until it's released, unless we get more info we didn't already know.


----------



## ism

It’s more that considering we have such a finely attuned connoisseurship of second violin jokes emerging here (or at least a finely attuned connoisseurship of exactly the same second violin repeated over 161 pages) then surely this newly evolved community of second violin joke aficionados deserves it’s own thread … 

Or even maybe it’s own subforum.


----------



## samphony

FrozenIcicle said:


> I wish these libraries appeared on my kontakt list instead of quick load. I always forget I have purchased so many


Maybe one day


----------



## dyvoid

I think Jasper better release already, I've already seen second violin jokes spill over into other threads. If this keeps going the whole forum will be contaminated.


----------



## Snarf

ism said:


> It more that considering we have such a finely attuned connoisseurship of second violin jokes emerging here (or at least a finely attuned connoisseurship of exactly the same second violin repeated over 161 pages) then surely this newly evolved community of second violin joke aficionados deserves it’s own thread …
> 
> Or even maybe it’s own subforum.


Agreed. Perhaps an entirely different forum even.


----------



## Denkii

So people are not allowed to ask for second violins but now we have multiple posts asking for a second place to put these people in.
That's funny 
We will get neither so we're all in the same boat ultimately.

If you dislike this harmless banter already, don't start an interest in infinite Strings and look up the Aaron venture thread.


----------



## FireGS

Damn, I figured that was the case re: solo strings - no viola or bass. I've been on a sort-of mini quest the last two years to find a really good solo bass to go along with a real quartet I've been working with to make a quintet, and I'm *still* looking. I even went so far as to buy BBCSO Pro, and AR2 Pro -- just for the solo Basses. Yes, I did that.

I'm still looking.


----------



## Marsen

svvic - second violin vi-control then?


----------



## doctoremmet

VI Control = Violins I Control


----------



## Noeticus

Seriously, who likes chocolate?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Ahem.. I have money. Can I buy Pacific? Lol


----------



## WhiteNoiz

doctoremmet said:


> VI Control = Violins I Control


Virtual Institution for the Criminally... Never mind.


----------



## Multipdf

Pacific is imminent but has everyone forgotten that in the near future we will have to have a ‘Voyage’ library to take us to the Pacific?……..perhaps put the download servers on a massive ship in the middle of nowhere?


----------



## Loerpert

Multipdf said:


> Pacific is imminent but has everyone forgotten that in the near future we will have to have a ‘Voyage’ library to take us to the Pacific?……..perhaps put the download servers on a massive ship in the middle of nowhere?











Microsoft finds underwater datacenters are reliable, practical and use energy sustainably | Innovation Stories


Microsoft retrieved the Northern Isles underwater datacenter from the seafloor off Scotland's Orkney Islands. Project Natick is proving the concept of underwater datacenters is feasible as well as logistically, environmentally and economically practical.




news.microsoft.com


----------



## dzilizzi

Loerpert said:


> Microsoft finds underwater datacenters are reliable, practical and use energy sustainably | Innovation Stories
> 
> 
> Microsoft retrieved the Northern Isles underwater datacenter from the seafloor off Scotland's Orkney Islands. Project Natick is proving the concept of underwater datacenters is feasible as well as logistically, environmentally and economically practical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.microsoft.com


Does this mean IT professionals will also have to be divers?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

dzilizzi said:


> Does this mean IT professionals will also have to be divers?


- There’s a problem with the server. Will you look at it, please?

- Sure thing, I’ll get my goggles!


----------



## muziksculp

Re-Introduction Sale ends August 26th. Is this a sign that we are getting closer to the release of Pacific Strings ?


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> Re-Introduction Sale ends August 26th. Is this a sign that we are getting closer to the release of Pacific Strings ?



No. It’s just a marketing ploy to make you last-minute-fomo-the-ef-out and purchase Violins B as well. After that everything will be back to normal.


----------



## Noeticus

Does anyone have any samples of when using the second violins transposition trick does not work within a song etc.?


----------



## Denkii

In theory it


Noeticus said:


> Does anyone have any samples of when using the second violins transposition trick within a song etc. that it does not work?


In theory it should always work.
I think most complaints stem from the difference in timbre (on top of the unnecessary extra steps).
Depends on how much that would bug you I guess?
Like...it's still the correct notes and there shouldn't be any technical issues other than it sounding not quite right.
In a good composition you're probably not gonna notice it. Especially not in a dense mix.


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Denkii said:


> In theory it
> 
> In theory it should always work.
> I think most complaints stem from the difference in timbre (on top of the unnecessary extra steps).
> Depends on how much that would bug you I guess?
> Like...it's still the correct notes and there shouldn't be any technical issues other than it sounding not quite right.
> In a good composition you're probably not gonna notice it. Especially not in a dense mix.


But if you transpose the violin up you also transpose the noise in the sample up, annoying purists even more /s


----------



## jbuhler

Noeticus said:


> Does anyone have any samples of when using the second violins transposition trick does not work within a song etc.?


You lose two notes at the top of the range—seconds don’t usually play up in that range so not really an issue. The low G is not open—this can sometimes be a problem but can be worked around. The spatial placement has to be adjusted—this can be a pain.


----------



## JF

It would be nice if those who are great at mixing could provide a quick tutorial on how to get the transposed Pacific seconds sounding great.


----------



## filipjonathan

JF said:


> It would be nice if those who are great at mixing could provide a quick tutorial on how to get the transposed Pacific seconds sounding great.


It would be nice if Pacific came out.


----------



## OHjorth

A tip for people in Europe outside the EURO-zone looking to buy Pacific strings or Con Moto. The Performance Sample website does a double currency exchange calculation from dollars to euro and then from euro to your currency increasing the cost for every transaction between currencies. Just by changing my zone from Sweden to USA I saved 5$ on Con Moto Basses.

This is not a hack btw, it's a way to pay what you are supposed to pay. I thought the 700SKR sounded a bit steep and by changing the zone I ended up with 658SKR instead.

I also don't like it when there is no information about VAT in the advertisements. I always feel robbed and fooled when reaching the checkout. Please change this! You might get my money but I will like you less.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

OHjorth said:


> A tip for people in Europe outside the EURO-zone looking to buy Pacific strings or Con Moto. The Performance Sample website does a double currency exchange calculation from dollars to euro and then from euro to your currency increasing the cost for every transaction between currencies. Just by changing my zone from Sweden to USA I saved 5$ on Con Moto Basses.
> 
> This is not a hack btw, it's a way to pay what you are supposed to pay. I thought the 700SKR sounded a bit steep and by changing the zone I ended up with 658SKR instead.
> 
> I also don't like it when there is no information about VAT in the advertisements. I always feel robbed and fooled when reaching the checkout. Please change this! You might get my money but I will like you less.


How do I change zones?


----------



## OHjorth

NeonMediaKJT said:


> How do I change zones?


When you are in checkout you will get a note at the top of the screen saying how much you will pay in your country's currency. To the right corner there will be a little flag saying which zone you are in. Just click it and change to whatever you like. I hope it doesn't screw up PS's statistics but I think it's resonable to do this as long as the exchange issue isn't fixed.


----------



## Tinesaeriel

/Cautiously pokes head in this thread/
/Throws these two demos in and runs away/


----------



## Casiquire

Tinesaeriel said:


> /Cautiously pokes head in this thread/
> /Throws these two demos in and runs away/



That first one is fantastically authentic sounding! There's something too short about the releases in the second one. Love the sound and tone of the library though, of course


----------



## jazzman7

Casiquire said:


> That first one is fantastically authentic sounding! There's something too short about the releases in the second one. Love the sound and tone of the library though, of course


Great. Now Jasper will take another month to work on that! ; )


----------



## Casiquire

jazzman7 said:


> Great. Now Jasper will take another month to work on that! ; )


I assume we have control over release volumes in Pacific like with some of his other libraries so I'm thinking this is something simple automation was made for to get them to my own taste, not something the dev has to change 😁


----------



## jazzman7

Casiquire said:


> I assume we have control over release volumes in Pacific like with some of his other libraries so I'm thinking this is something simple automation was made for to get them to my own taste, not something the dev has to change 😁


Ha! We talk about the Legato police, but I must admit my membership card is stashed around here somewhere...


----------



## Loerpert

Legato is approved


----------



## STMICHAELS

Loerpert said:


> Legato is approved


I read on Performance Samples website. However, in your opinion with what you own in other Performance Sample libraries, I see in thread that Jasper's libraries are deemed as having a more playable approach. Can you describe from your point of view why it is a more playable library than other library developers? I am more of a keyboard player and just wondering what sets it apart?


----------



## Loerpert

STMICHAELS said:


> I read on Performance Samples website. However, in your opinion with what you own in other Performance Sample libraries, I see in thread that Jasper's libraries are deemed as having a more playable approach. Can you describe from your point of view why it is a more playable library than other library developers? I am more of a keyboard player and just wondering what sets it apart?


Hm honestly I only own Vista, so can't really say anything about pacific. The reason I find Vista very playable is because:
- It feels like there's alot of consistency in timing (transitions between notes, key on/off etc)
- Velocity doesn't really do much I think, so no matter how hard or soft you press keys, transitions sound pretty smooth and natural, unlike other libraries where velocity impacts transition speed for instance.

Hope it helps!


----------



## Tinesaeriel

/Throws this other new demo that was just posted in this thread and runs away once more/


----------



## Casiquire

Tinesaeriel said:


> /Throws this other new demo that was just posted in this thread and runs away once more/



Pretty stunning. I'm not a hundred percent sure what I'm hearing but it sounds like it might be the main legato patch and its repeated notes. It sounds like you can repeat notes at different intensities somehow? That's really cool if it's true. They might just be naturally "organic" and dynamic too which is still a great effect here and something I don't think I can get out of any other library.


----------



## NoamL

that sounds really good.


----------



## STMICHAELS

NoamL said:


> that sounds really good.


It does. When I listen to Performance Samples Demos, they indeed have a lot of body to the samples, and comparing it to other's it has a very flowy romantic sound associated with some of these DEMOS. Am I describing this correct? The legato's sound great. Trying to distinguish the sound from other sample developers and it definitely has its own originality to it....


----------



## Pianolando

Tinesaeriel said:


> /Throws this other new demo that was just posted in this thread and runs away once more/



Yeah, wow. Super beautiful sound and wonderful transitions and repetitions. Very impressed.


----------



## Niv Schrieber

If anyone ever wanted a thomas bergersen strings library ,I think this is as close as it gets in terms of sound and how alive and agile the samples are.


----------



## ibanez1

I'm interpreting more demos on soundcloud == more sound examples for the website == really close to release? Trying to read the tea leaves here


----------



## Larbguy

my stoke for this library is escalating to uncomfortable levels


----------



## STMICHAELS

How would you describe the sound of this library? How do you see yourself using it in your specific genre that this will be a great match for?


----------



## Jerner

STMICHAELS said:


> How would you describe the sound of this library?


Ethereal, intangible, teasing.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

ibanez1 said:


> I'm interpreting more demos on soundcloud == more sound examples for the website == really close to release? Trying to read the tea leaves here


it's almost september 😥


----------



## muziksculp

NeonMediaKJT said:


> it's almost september 😥


Maybe that's what Jasper is waiting for to release Pacific Strings. 

I hear the Pacific Strings waves getting louder and louder as we approach September. )))) 🦻


----------



## Saxer

Just realized this thread started in April '21


----------



## ibanez1

I consider myself lucky. I only started watching this thread in July after getting hooked on a few other Performance Samples products.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

muziksculp said:


> Maybe that's what Jasper is waiting for to release Pacific Strings.
> 
> I hear the Pacific Strings waves getting louder and louder as we approach September. )))) 🦻


I'm not gonna get my hopes up haha


----------



## muziksculp

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I'm not gonna get my hopes up haha


I don't blame you. Stay safe.


----------



## muziksculp

ibanez1 said:


> I consider myself lucky. I only started watching this thread in July after getting hooked on a few other Performance Samples products.


I would recommend going back to the first page of this thread, and reading every post to be in sync. with what's going on since it was announced. Plus... you will surely get a bigger kick when it is finally released.


----------



## Snarf

Niv Schrieber said:


> If anyone ever wanted a thomas bergersen strings library ,I think this is as close as it gets in terms of sound and how alive and agile the samples are.



100% this! And not just strings; the rest of the orchestra as well! I have said this elsewhere too.

Since Thomas Bergersen has decided against releasing his personal sample collection - apparently there are some demos on his Daybreak industrial album - Jasper Blunk's Performance Samples is the closest thing we are likely to get. His sampling aesthetic and techniques are most reminiscent of TB's own orchestral sampling ventures: record in a good hall with good musicians and bake the right expressive qualities into the samples.

You don't have to take it from me, though. Here is (albeit younger) Jasper himself speaking about Thomas Bergersen's "unprecedented influence" on him back in 2010:






Felt like a good time and place to share 🙂. Unfortunately, EastWest have pulled the plug from their forum.

For context, here is some TB-influenced music Jasper wrote around that time:


----------



## soulofsound

Casiquire said:


> Pretty stunning. I'm not a hundred percent sure what I'm hearing but it sounds like it might be the main legato patch and its repeated notes. It sounds like you can repeat notes at different intensities somehow? That's really cool if it's true. They might just be naturally "organic" and dynamic too which is still a great effect here and something I don't think I can get out of any other library.


Yes that seems a new thing for a library to have this kind of control over bowing and ostinato. At faster pace there seem very tiny gaps between notes, but at lower pace it sounds very authentic. Perhaps that is why they are still tweaking the legato.


----------



## muziksculp

soulofsound said:


> Perhaps that is why they are still tweaking the legato.


Do you think it's still being beta-tested ?


----------



## soulofsound

muziksculp said:


> Do you think it's still being beta-tested ?


It would be out if it wasn't.


----------



## ibanez1

muziksculp said:


> I would recommend going back to the first page of this thread, and reading every post to be in sync. with what's going on since it was announced. Plus... you will surely get a bigger kick when it is finally released.


Since it will take probably at least 1 day to read through all the posts, i'm hoping the below compressed sequence of responses summarizes enough of this thread:

1. The new Pacific demo sounds amazing!
2. When do you think it will release?
3. I feel like not having 2nd violins is a mistake
4. between 1-50 2nd violin jokes
5. Questions and discussion about the unique tone/sound/timbre/<insert musical term here> of the samples
6. Thread hibernates for 3 days
7. Repeat steps 1-6 as needed

Am I close?


----------



## muziksculp

soulofsound said:


> It would be out if it wasn't.


That would make sense, but I have been under the impression that it's all good to go for a little while now. But then again, they can keep on tweaking it forever. This library is a mirage, honestly, it won't be perfect, if that's what they are aiming for. None of the string libraries are. Over tweaking can also backfire.


----------



## muziksculp

ibanez1 said:


> Since it will take probably at least 1 day to read through all the posts, i'm hoping the below compressed sequence of responses summarizes enough of this thread:
> 
> 1. The new Pacific demo sounds amazing!
> 2. When do you think it will release?
> 3. I feel like not having 2nd violins is a mistake
> 4. between 1-50 2nd violin jokes
> 5. Questions and discussion about the unique tone/sound/timbre/<insert musical term here> of the samples
> 6. Thread hibernates for 3 days
> 7. Repeat steps 1-6 as needed
> 
> Am I close?


You forgot to mention the Freebies.


----------



## soulofsound

muziksculp said:


> That would make sense, but I have been under the impression that it's all good to go for a little while now. But then again, they can keep on tweaking it forever. This library is a mirage, honestly, it won't be perfect, if that's what they are aiming for. None of the string libraries are.


The amount of playability in the legato and ostinato he shows in the demos is an incredibly difficult technology to get right. I can imagine a developer will want to release the best possible version. (The slightest error will result in a cascade of unfair criticism here for instance.)


----------



## muziksculp

soulofsound said:


> The amount of playability in the legato and ostinato he shows in the demos is an incredibly difficult technology to get right. I can imagine a developer will want to release the best possible version. (The slightest error will result in a cascade of unfair criticism here for instance.)


Believe me, as much as they keep on trying to perfect things, it won't be perfect. Perfection is a super deep rabbit's hole.


----------



## soulofsound

muziksculp said:


> Believe me, as much as they keep on trying to perfect things, it won't be perfect.


There is always a degree of subjectivity which will please some users and alienate others yes. By getting right i mean the developer will want the best possible version to please as many future clients. Which i imagine is a delicate balancing act between the feedback from all the different beta-testers.


----------



## muziksculp

The problem is that Defining the 'Best' version is a tricky task.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Yeah I thought someone here mentioned the lib is pretty much good to go. So they’re still tweaking legato now?


----------



## Kony

I'm hopeful that the delay is due to Jasper getting all of the sections ready to release at the same time.


----------



## Trash Panda

ism said:


> How about we split this thread in two: one thread for endless endless endless and I do mean completely unendingly endless second violin jokes ( punctuated for by occasional "are we there yet queries" by people without the patience to sift through a hundred pages of second violin jokes in search of actual information), and a second thread containing any actual information about the library (should there ever be any)?
> 
> Just a thought


I feel like this is a low key second violins joke that most people did not quite understand. 😆


----------



## muziksculp

Kony said:


> I'm hopeful that the delay is due to Jasper getting all of the sections ready to release at the same time.


What ? Serious ? You must be kidding. That would need another 3-4 years given the current pace of development.


----------



## ism

Trash Panda said:


> I feel like this is a low key second violins joke that most people did not quite und'erstand. 😆


Are you saying we need a third, "meta-second violin jokes" thread?


----------



## muziksculp

( *LEGATO DEVISION* 👮‍♂️ ) <----- Hopefully this is not what's causing all the delays.


----------



## dzilizzi

ism said:


> Are you saying we need a third, "meta-second violin jokes" thread?


I never did make the 2nd violins joke I threatened on another thread.....


----------



## Raphioli

I really hope the people who are trying to rush the library out aren't going to start criticizing the library once its out.(since you asked for it since you rushed it)

If he was able to achieve those repetitions in the demos on the previous page because of the delays,
I would happily wait and would really look forward to what he additionally has in store for this library.

As much as I want the library right now, I want him to release it when he believe its ready.
Not when he feels threaten to release it because of the people rushing him.

But something like a "pre-order(pay upfront) now to get access to beta" would be nice haha
It was something popular when I use to play games.


----------



## muziksculp

I guarantee that there will be some who will criticize this library, even if it took another ten years to be released. It's reality, nothing is perfect, Pacific Strings is not going to be perfect, and no other strings library is perfect. Let's face the music. They can take their time, no one is rushing them, but that doesn't mean it's going to be perfect when released.


----------



## Raphioli

muziksculp said:


> I guarantee that there will be some who will criticize this library,


My post was only meant for people who are rushing it.
No one else.

-EDIT-
I didn't want to create another post, so I'll just edit this one to reply.



muziksculp said:


> even people who are not rushing its release might criticize something/s about it when it is released.


I think I've already gave the answer to this above. Unless I wasn't clear enough.

I'm generally not against constructive feedback at all.
Just from those who are rushing it, because it would be unfair if he had to rush it out, 
just to get criticized for flaws(if there are any) he could have dealt with if he could've take more time.


----------



## muziksculp

Raphioli said:


> My post was only meant for people who are rushing it.
> No one else.


I understand, but.. even people who are not rushing its release might criticize something/s about it when it is released. There will always be weaknesses in specific scenarios, and strengths as well of a library.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> I guarantee that there will be some who will criticize this library, even if it took another ten years to be released. It's reality, nothing is perfect, Pacific Strings is not going to be perfect, and no other strings library is perfect. Let's face the music. They can take their time, no one is rushing them, but that doesn't mean it's going to be perfect when released.


No but it'll be to his standard


----------



## Kony

muziksculp said:


> What ? Serious ? You must be kidding. That would need another 3-4 years given the current pace of development.


I assure you I'm not kidding - and I don't think it'll take that long. While the release schedule has been pushed back a bit, those other sections are planned for this year as well - and we're in Q3.


----------



## muziksculp

Kony said:


> I assure you I'm not kidding - and I don't think it'll take that long. While the release schedule has been pushed back a bit, those other sections are planned for this year as well - and we're in Q3.


beginning with strings ! So, No need to wait for the other sections in order to release the Strings. That's what I understand from what is posted above.


----------



## Kony

muziksculp said:


> beginning with strings ! So, No need to wait for the other sections in order to release the Strings. That's what I understand from what is posted above.


I get that, all I said is I'm "hopeful" that this is the reason for the delay, and that they'll all get released at the same time. Nothing wrong with being speculative and hopeful, is there?


----------



## Casiquire

Kony said:


> I assure you I'm not kidding - and I don't think it'll take that long. While the release schedule has been pushed back a bit, those other sections are planned for this year as well - and we're in Q3.


I don't think it's a great business move though. Dropping a bunch of libraries at the same time is a bit self cannibalizing


----------



## Kony

Casiquire said:


> I don't think it's a great business move though. Dropping a bunch of libraries at the same time is a bit self cannibalizing


Still hopeful though - currently working on a project which I'd love to replace with the full Pacific package asap. But yeah, I hear ya!

Edit: actually don't agree with the self-cannibalising comment. It's an orchestra - your point is a bit like saying BBCSO should have had a staggered release of the orchestra sections. Pacific isn't a bunch of libraries IMO, it's a full orchestral library which will be available in sections as opposed to one package. Which is the better business model is anyone's guess really. I don't think the timing of the release would have much impact on the sales of those sections, especially as they're meant to be cheaper than the strings.


----------



## Saxer

btw: I'm not smart enough for 1st violin jokes. So I'm here for the 2nd.


----------



## Casiquire

Kony said:


> Still hopeful though - currently working on a project which I'd love to replace with the full Pacific package asap. But yeah, I hear ya!
> 
> Edit: actually don't agree with the self-cannibalising comment. It's an orchestra - your point is a bit like saying BBCSO should have had a staggered release of the orchestra sections. Pacific isn't a bunch of libraries IMO, it's a full orchestral library which will be available in sections as opposed to one package. Which is the better business model is anyone's guess really. I don't think the timing of the release would have much impact on the sales of those sections, especially as they're meant to be cheaper than the strings.


I disagree. BBCSO dropped as one single product; there was nothing to cannibalize. It's also not a great business move because every time a library drops, there's a sales boost. He'd be giving up three boosts and risking someone who can only afford one today eventually going with a newer shinier product. I think there's a reason devs seem to really, really try to avoid dropping multiple new libraries at the same time.


----------



## dunamisstudio




----------



## muziksculp

A First week of Sept. release of Pacific Strings would add a very nice touch to the already exciting news about CSS Update 1.7 release on Aug. 30th. I can just imagine Big waves of Strings discussion frenzy on VI-C during the first week of Sept.  🎻🎻🎻


----------



## Kony

Casiquire said:


> I disagree. BBCSO dropped as one single product; there was nothing to cannibalize. It's also not a great business move because every time a library drops, there's a sales boost. He'd be giving up three boosts and risking someone who can only afford one today eventually going with a newer shinier product. I think there's a reason devs seem to really, really try to avoid dropping multiple new libraries at the same time.


Honestly, no offence intended but it looks like you've missed my point. Yes, BBCSO dropped as one lib - the point according to your logic is they could have released it in sections at incremental stages in the calendar to maximise potential sales boosts. Also, and again no offence intended, I merely stated speculatively that "I hoped" it would be released all at once. Whether it is or not is actually of little consequence to me - and also to you I'm sure.

The only reason I could see why all Pacific sections wouldn't be released at once is that it may potentially prevent some buyers from being able to use the loyalty intro offer for some sections due to lack of funds.


----------



## mgaewsj

muziksculp said:


> A First week of Sept. release of Pacific Strings would add a very nice touch to the already exciting news about CSS Update 1.7 release on Aug. 30th. I can just imagine Big waves of Strings discussion frenzy on VI-C during the first week of Sept.  🎻🎻🎻


hmmm I guess the fantastic CSS update will further delay Pacific Strings release.
There's going to be a lot of excitement for CSS so it's likely that Jasper will wait until that excitement settles down a bit


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

mgaewsj said:


> hmmm I guess the fantastic CSS update will further delay Pacific Strings release.
> There's going to be a lot of excitement for CSS so it's likely that Jasper will wait until that excitement settles down a bit


Or he releases right now and takes the glory


----------



## Simon Lee

Jasper posted this earlier today so it looks like there’s further refinements taking place. 

Open discussion of MIDI control options for Same-Note Repetitions

Hey all, in the final stages of Pacific Strings production I figured out a better-sounding way (than I had originally planned) to do same-note bow-changes, so I've been thinking a bit more about sus repetition (same-note repetition) control. Holding down the sustain pedal while playing is the traditional method I've been using which I'm sure a lot of us are familiar with. It's generally fine in monophonic legato playing but in terms of poly chordal stuff where you want loure/sus-rep playing its more to think about when changing notes while keeping connectivity, as you have to time the pedal on/off very accurately.

As an alternative control method, I've considered poly aftertouch. The problem I have with that is the notes wouldn't be accessible to easily quantize, which is important. I am hesitant about decoupling repeated notes from the main MIDI data. While I wonder if there's some way to convert aftertouch data to MIDI notes easily, that would fall flat for standalone Kontakt playing outside of the DAW. 

Those of you with keyboards supporting aftertouch - how does the idea of this seem to you -- playing same-note bow-changes w aftertouch, versus sus pedal based triggering?

Here is a Soundcloud example of the kind of repeated-note function I'm talking about (this is with sus pedal down and is not take-selected/finessed yet so pops out a bit). Nothing musical, just demonstrating the tech at different speeds.


----------



## The Gost

For those who have Performance Sample strings, I think this might be interesting...


----------



## jamwerks

I think some people confuse whining on a forum with "putting pressure on devs". These people give too much credit to themselves. They have no capacity to exercise any amount of pressure whatsoever. It's all just hot air!


----------



## Snarf

The Gost said:


> For those who have Performance Sample strings, I think this might be interesting...



He's just automating an EQ and reverb alongside dynamics to "change the character". His approach is very much focused around ensemble patch keyboard playing. Not sure why you'd need Vista for that.


----------



## The Gost

Snarf said:


> He's just automating an EQ and reverb alongside dynamics to "change the character". His approach is very much focused around ensemble patch keyboard playing. Not sure why you'd need Vista for that.


I dont need it, but i know that some peoples are playing with ensemble patch... and the difference is interseting, that's all


----------



## soulofsound

The Gost said:


> For those who have Performance Sample strings, I think this might be interesting...



The advice on EQ in the video is sound. But when you compare the sound of the strings before and after adding the Kontakt internal FX, it tells me not to use those. Imo it would be better to route the channels to different channel strips in the DAW and use EQ that doesn't smear the whole sound and have it sound synth-like.


----------



## dzilizzi

Raphioli said:


> I really hope the people who are trying to rush the library out aren't going to start criticizing the library once its out.(since you asked for it since you rushed it)
> 
> If he was able to achieve those repetitions in the demos on the previous page because of the delays,
> I would happily wait and would really look forward to what he additionally has in store for this library.
> 
> As much as I want the library right now, I want him to release it when he believe its ready.
> Not when he feels threaten to release it because of the people rushing him.
> 
> But something like a "pre-order(pay upfront) now to get access to beta" would be nice haha
> It was something popular when I use to play games.


I think the fact he doesn't have a preorder keeps him from feeling rushed. I know if I took someone's money, I would feel rushed.


----------



## hayvel

This morning I realised that the Re-Introduction Sale is still going (Maybe we are not fully done with August 26th?  )... and quickly decided to grab the Con Moto basses, just in case I want to go for Pacific during the intro period. Otherwise, It is still a nice product by its own.

I actually would not mind for Pacific to be delayed a bit longer to have more time saving up for it. Lots of cost increases here in Germany at the moment and soon to be expected, so budget is generally tight.


----------



## Ricgus3

hayvel said:


> This morning I realised that the Re-Introduction Sale is still going (Maybe we are not fully done with August 26th?  )... and quickly decided to grab the Con Moto basses, just in case I want to go for Pacific during the intro period. Otherwise, It is still a nice product by its own.
> 
> I actually would not mind for Pacific to be delayed a bit longer to have more time saving up for it. Lots of cost increases here in Germany at the moment and soon to be expected, so budget is generally tight.


My fomo is very high. Have not picked up
The basses yet. Cost increase here in Sweden has put it out of my horizon now. I have a feeling it will not drop to loyalty price again. Just intro price, hence my fomo


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Ricgus3 said:


> My fomo is very high. Have not picked up
> The basses yet. Cost increase here in Sweden has put it out of my horizon now. I have a feeling it will not drop to loyalty price again. Just intro price, hence my fomo


I’m the same. Cost of living in Denmark has risen dramatically so I can’t afford to buy sample libraries currently.


----------



## dzilizzi

Yesterday, I was looking at the exchange rate and for the first time ever - or that I have ever seen - the Euro was less than the dollar. I don't think it lasted long.


----------



## jbuhler

dzilizzi said:


> Yesterday, I was looking at the exchange rate and for the first time ever - or that I have ever seen - the Euro was less than the dollar. I don't think it lasted long.


Yeah, buying from companies on the pound or the euro is super cheap right now.


----------



## muziksculp

It looks like we are going to be in the waiting room quite a bit longer than we thought we will be lately.

Dr. Jasper is re-operating on Pacific Strings. Hopefully they will sound even better than we were expecting after the surgical procedure is completed.

No rush, Oh, we have the CSS Update 1.7 to keep us very busy, and excited meanwhile.


----------



## The Gost

dzilizzi said:


> Yesterday, I was looking at the exchange rate and for the first time ever - or that I have ever seen - the Euro was less than the dollar. I don't think it lasted long.


Unfortunately Europe is collapsing....


----------



## polynaeus

Casiquire said:


> There's something too short about the releases in the second one.


Yeah totally… hmmm not sure how I feel about the releases of those.


----------



## hayvel

The Gost said:


> Unfortunately Europe is collapsing....


Looks like it was a wise choice on Jasper's part to keep production cost and pricing in check ...






by excluding second violins.


----------



## Casiquire

The Gost said:


> Unfortunately Europe is collapsing....


At least they're not doing it alone 😔


----------



## Noeticus

Compared to WWII, things are rather nice globally right now, but compared to how I would prefer the world to be, I think things are... FREAKIN' ATROCIOUS!!! 

And sadly, man is to blame for basically all if it. Not women.

🍷 🍷 🍷 🍷 🍷


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Noeticus said:


> Compared to WWII, things are rather nice globally right now, but compared to how I would prefer the world to be, I think things are... FREAKIN' ATROCIOUS!!!
> 
> And sadly, man is to blame for basically all if it. Not women.
> 
> 🍷 🍷 🍷 🍷 🍷


Trust me things would be bad no matter what's between their legs.


----------



## ka00

New loyalty intro price is $279.


----------



## Soundbed

I'm still looking forward to this, even though I still don't need it.


----------



## Sophus

ka00 said:


> New loyalty intro price is $279.


That's good to hear. But actually now is a really bad time to buy something expensive because in many European countries food and energy prices are rising fast or even exploding and the value of the euro against the dollar has fallen sharply. I suspect that if this library had come out for its original introductory price of $499 a year ago, it probably would have been easier to justify and fund the purchase than it is today.


----------



## chapbot

Sophus said:


> That's good to hear. But actually now is a really bad time to buy something expensive because in many European countries food and energy prices are rising fast or even exploding and the value of the euro against the dollar has fallen sharply. I suspect that if this library had come out for its original introductory price of $499 a year ago, it probably would have been easier to justify and fund the purchase than it is today.


New loyalty price February 2023: Jasper pays you $49 to download Pacific 🤣💕


----------



## muziksculp

Thanks to Jasper B. for lowering the Pacific Strings Loyalty Intro-Price to $279. This price will include the Pacific Solo Strings when they are ready for release. Such a big bang for the $. 

The big question is .. When will it be released ?


----------



## CT

Soundbed said:


> I'm still looking forward to this, even though I still don't need it.


Oh, but you do....


----------



## hayvel

chapbot said:


> New loyalty price February 2023: Jasper pays you $49 to download Pacific 🤣💕


Sounds perfectly reasonable, you must run a PC to download Pacific! Think of the electricity bill!!!


----------



## hayvel

ka00 said:


> New loyalty intro price is $279.


Oooh... almost too good for what it seems. And you even get the solo strings on top for free later on.

Don't tell Jasper, but this is not 'boutique pricing' at all... 🤫


----------



## Stevie

muziksculp said:


> The big question is .. When will it be released ?


When it’s done. Shocking, I know.


----------



## I like music

muziksculp said:


> Thanks to Jasper B. for lowering the Pacific Strings Loyalty Intro-Price to $279. This price will include the Pacific Solo Strings when they are ready for release. Such a big bang for the $.
> 
> The big question is .. When will it be released ?


CSS 1.7 isn't even 24hrs old and you've already moved on?!?!


----------



## Bluemount Score

ka00 said:


> New loyalty intro price is $279.


...therefore around 335 Euro right now for those of us who need to pay extra 19% VAT at checkout.


----------



## Sophus

Bluemount Score said:


> ...therefore around 335 Euro right now for those of us who need to pay extra 19% VAT at checkout.


If you pay with PayPal they also take a cut with their own "exchange rate", which will add antoher 10€.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Sophus said:


> If you pay with PayPal they also take a cut with their own "exchange rate", which will add antoher 10€.


Makes sense, I mostly use PayPal and in the past I was wondering why the final price always was slightly higher than it should have been based on my prediction


----------



## I like music

Bluemount Score said:


> ...therefore around 335 Euro right now for those of us who need to pay extra 19% VAT at checkout.


Ouch.


----------



## Adam Takacs

Bluemount Score said:


> ...therefore around 335 Euro right now for those of us who need to pay extra 19% VAT at checkout.


Yes, I also need to pay VAT. 27%
I don’t know why because PS based on California. As I know there is no tax in California for only digital, downloadable products. I live in EU, I know that I have pay the hungarian VAT if I buy products from any EU country, but I don’t know why to pay in this case.


----------



## gum

Every day is even harder outside of Europe and the United States.
In my personal case, our currency is down almost 30% against the dollar compared to three years ago.
300USD is now 400USD to us.
"25% off sale" feels like a fixed price.
Covid and the war continues to have a very large impact...

Still, I decided to buy Pacific and Infinite strings 3 years ago and I am hiding the cost in a jar in the garden


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

i'm hoping it comes out on the first of september lol


----------



## JF

NeonMediaKJT said:


> i'm hoping it comes out on the first of september lol


Nah. It will be the SECOND of September just to mess with everyone.


----------



## STMICHAELS

Question: I see intro


ka00 said:


> New loyalty intro price is $279.


What was the old loyalty intro price? Just inquisitive....and how do you purchase the loyalty intro? Once its released? then 8-9 weeks from release date offer is good for Loyalty Intro? Just want to make sure I understand...


----------



## Alden Hill

STMICHAELS said:


> Question: I see intro
> 
> What was the old loyalty intro price? Just inquisitive....and how do you purchase the loyalty intro? Once its released? then 8-9 weeks from release date offer is good for Loyalty Intro? Just want to make sure I understand...


Old loyalty intro was $300. You have to have one of the following libraries to qualify for loyalty intro:
”1. *Vista*, 2. *Con Moto – Cellos*, 3. *Con Moto – Violins A*, 4. *Con Moto – Violins B*, 5. *Con Moto – Violas,* or 6.* Con Moto – Basses*.”
Yes loyalty intro lasts for 8-9 weeks.
”*The library’s intro sale is planned to last 8-9 weeks.”*


----------



## STMICHAELS

Alden Hill said:


> Old loyalty intro was $300. You have to have one of the following libraries to qualify for loyalty intro:
> ”1. *Vista*, 2. *Con Moto – Cellos*, 3. *Con Moto – Violins A*, 4. *Con Moto – Violins B*, 5. *Con Moto – Violas,* or 6.* Con Moto – Basses*.”
> Yes loyalty intro lasts for 8-9 weeks.
> ”*The library’s intro sale is planned to last 8-9 weeks.”*


Thank you for clarifying...


----------



## Batuer

8-9 weeks, that’ll be 2 months. So may will release in ……..November?


----------



## Vlzmusic

Batuer said:


> 8-9 weeks, that’ll be 2 months. So may will release in ……..November?


Its about how long you will be eligible for the reduced price AFTER Pacific releases. Nothing to do with the release date itself.


----------



## Batuer

Vlzmusic said:


> Its about how long you will be eligible for the reduced price AFTER Pacific releases. Nothing to do with the release date itself.


I know.  Just wanna say another delay, maybe. It's September now and J is still fining the sound. What we can do is just waiting.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Batuer said:


> I know.  Just wanna say another delay, maybe. It's September now and J is still fining the sound. What we can do is just waiting.


J - is a girl singer from K-pop group Stayc. Go find yourself a better life than waiting for Pacific.


----------



## Saxer

Maybe a picture of Pacific will shorten the waiting time.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Saxer said:


> Maybe a picture of Pacific will shorten the waiting time.


How's the wave transition? Also I can clearly see the plethora of dynamic layers. How's that feel?


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Argy Ottas said:


> How's the wave transition?


Pretty fluid I'd say.


----------



## I like music

Saxer said:


> Maybe a picture of Pacific will shorten the waiting time.


As I expected... 

I see no 2nd vlns here


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

I like music said:


> As I expected...
> 
> I see no 2nd vlns here


When I look closely, I see this:


----------



## Batuer

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> When I look closely, I see this:


2nd violins


----------



## MA-Simon

Batuer said:


> 2nd violins


I just see the pacific solo strings


----------



## Denkii

All by myself
Don't wanna be
All by myself...


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

😫 why do i keep coming here


----------



## Raphioli

NeonMediaKJT said:


> 😫 why do i keep coming here


Did Performance Samples start a teaser campaign by any chance?
Maybe something along the lines of * "This is Pacific Calling"*, which might be why you keep getting called back to this thread xD

(Sorry Spitfire, didn't mean to steal your phrase "This is London Calling" =P )


----------



## hayvel

NeonMediaKJT said:


> 😫 why do i keep coming here


 Violins 2 i keep coming here


----------



## Multipdf

hayvel said:


> Violins 2 i keep coming here


You might need a ‘Voyage’ to find the missing piece….


----------



## I like music

Multipdf said:


> You might need a ‘Voyage’ to find the missing piece….


Disgusting


----------



## FinGael

Saxer said:


> Maybe a picture of Pacific will shorten the waiting time.


No ship. Yet. No second violins. Nada.


----------



## Trash Panda

hayvel said:


> Violins 2 i keep coming here


Like Cersei, I choose violins two.


----------



## I like music

This used to be a serious, high-quality forum for discussion about music. 

The last few comments have trashed the whole thing. 

Mike Greene really needs to ban some people, or else this forum will... 

...be playing second fiddle to other music forums.


----------



## mussnig

I like music said:


> This used to be a serious, high-quality forum for discussion about music.
> 
> The last few comments have trashed the whole thing.
> 
> Mike Greene really needs to ban some people, or else this forum will...
> 
> ...be playing second fiddle to other music forums.


----------



## Raphioli

I like music said:


> This used to be a serious, high-quality forum for discussion about music.
> 
> The last few comments have trashed the whole thing.
> 
> Mike Greene really needs to ban some people, or else this forum will...
> 
> ...be playing second fiddle to other music forums.


Its starting to spread like a virus too 

I didn't expect the *2nd reply* of the following thread to have a *2nd violins* joke.
Especially in woodwinds thread. (or maybe they'll be a *no a2 samples* joke)





Spitfire Symphonic woodwinds at 50% off! Thoughts?


Seem SA is running a September deal: 50% off symphonic woodwinds! Any thoughts on the library?




vi-control.net





I always put my cup down before I open the Pacific thread, but this one caught me off guard. 
Thank god my keyboard was safe, but spilt some coffee on my lap.
I can't drink anything while scanning through VI-C now


----------



## Benbln

Crazy to think about that we are still at least a minimum of 100 2nd violins jokes away from the Pacific Strings release.


----------



## I like music

Benbln said:


> Crazy to think about that we are still at least a minimum of 100 2nd violins jokes away from the Pacific Strings release.


Well get cracking! 

The jokes aren't going to tell themselves!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Benbln said:


> Crazy to think about that we are still at least a minimum of 100 2nd violins jokes away from the Pacific Strings release.


We should all take a second to let this sink in!


----------



## ibanez1

"Summer has come and passed
The 2nd violin jokes can never last
Wake me up when September ends"


----------



## Denkii

ibanez1 said:


> "Summer has come and passed
> The 2nd violin jokes can never last
> Wake me up when September ends"


... for it's the time of second violins?


----------



## Cass Hansen

There are many famous violin luthiers throughout the ages. There are Amati violins, Guarneri violins, Stradivari violins, but also the little known William d’ Second who made the very exquisite d' Second violins, hard to find, …rare indeed….obviously!

Cass


----------



## hayvel

Let me dare to raise some questions on the topic, if I may?

For those of you who are thinking about purchasing Pacific Strings, what role do you hope for it to play in your templates? Do you have particular gaps you want to fill? Or is there a similar library you currently use but want to replace with something better? Are you currently working on a specific project you want to apply this to? Just curious about the motivation.


----------



## Jerner

I'm looking to complement CSS, but also having second thoughts.


----------



## doctoremmet

Motivation: ditch key switching where I can, and replace it with playable libraries. No idea if that’ll work


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

I hope to finally get my hands on a string library with a tone that I like. I also think it may work well together with TH Brass because they both have a pretty wide dynamic range and should work well for music in the style of Thomas Bergersen.


----------



## Zanshin

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I hope to finally get my hands on a string library with a tone that I like. I also think it may work well together with TH Brass because they both have a pretty wide dynamic range and should work well for music in the style of Thomas Bergersen.


Ditto. Although I do have some strings I really like (Berlin string bundle, all of VSL's strings), the range of expression and character is the big draw for me.


----------



## Kosmit

Guys, Im really new into this place.
So my try - "after release, if I download strings again second time... Will it considered to be second violins"
Is that a proper joke? Or do I deserve for a second chance? Like every library deserve for a second violins?


----------



## Denkii

doctoremmet said:


> Motivation: ditch key switching where I can, and replace it with playable libraries. No idea if that’ll work


We speak the same language....and it's not dutch.


----------



## I like music

Kosmit said:


> Guys, Im really new into this place.
> So my try - "after release, if I download strings again second time... Will it considered to be second violins"
> Is that a proper joke? Or do I deserve for a second chance? Like every library deserve for a second violins?


We're going for quantity, not quality. 

You're good.


----------



## Marsen

Kosmit said:


> "after release, if I download strings again second time... Will it considered to be second violins"


By using a different unzip´er for the second download, yes.
Put the unzip to 50% humanize (secret trick).

But don’t go over 50% or you end up with violas.


----------



## Raphioli

Jerner said:


> I'm looking to complement CSS, but also having second thoughts.


I'm thinking to myself...

Is that a genuine opinion? Or is it another "second" violins joke?
I hope I don't get haunted by the word "second".
(do I need to see a doctor?  )


----------



## Jerner

Raphioli said:


> I'm thinking to myself...
> 
> Is that a genuine opinion? Or is it another "second" violins joke?
> I hope I don't get haunted by the word "second".
> (do I need to see a doctor?  )


My mind is pretty much set on purchasing it. The legatos in PS's other stuff I've used have been second to none and having a dozen or so velocity layers seems fantastic. The two teaser packs are great too. The first one is good but the second one especially.

I bought con moto cello frankly for the loyalty pricing on Pacific but damn it's good. On top of the loyalty price, getting a second potentially fantastic product with Pacific solo strings down the line is pretty amazing too.

i feel dirty


----------



## Raphioli

Jerner said:


> second to none





Jerner said:


> the second one especially





Jerner said:


> getting a second


The above parts bothered me for a sec, but forced myself to consider your post as a genuine opinion


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Raphioli said:


> The above parts bothered me for a sec, but forced myself to consider your post as a genuine opinion


You won't get away this easily - they didn't bother you for a sec, they bothered you for a second


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

I've been testing out the freebies in some new tracks I am writing and between that + chatting with a colleague who is beta testing, I already know Pacific Strings will be my main going forward.


----------



## muziksculp

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I've been testing out the freebies in some new tracks I am writing and between that + chatting with a colleague who is beta testing, I already know Pacific Strings will be my main going forward.


Any feedback from your beta testing colleague on when Pacific Strings will be finally released ?


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

muziksculp said:


> Any feedback from your beta testing colleague on when Pacific Strings will be finally released ?


Absolutely - he said
























Soon maybe


----------



## STMICHAELS

What library and section would you highly recommend to qualify for the intro loyalty price?


----------



## Bluemount Score

STMICHAELS said:


> What library and section would you highly recommend to qualify for the intro loyalty price?


Vista :D


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

View attachment 2022-09-03_16-24-07.mp4


lil test w the freebie


----------



## lettucehat

Bluemount Score said:


> Vista :D


This or at least Con Moto Cellos. Violins A after that. i don't know why all these people are just getting the basses, I know it's the cheapest but you realize these are instruments that you can use too right.


----------



## Denkii

mhhhm


----------



## Denkii

mhhh hhmmmmmmmmm
What's up at the end though?


----------



## muziksculp

These Sus-Reps sound wonderful 

OK, so enough tweaking, playing around, and testing our patience. Just release it


----------



## ka00

I am all for releasing now too. However, this is still Performance Samples and their policy is no customer support and everything is bought as is. So with this vendor and this policy, I’d personally rather it be as perfected as possible.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

ka00 said:


> I am all for releasing now too. However, this is still Performance Samples and their policy is no customer support and everything is bought as is. So with this vendor and this policy, I’d personally rather it be as perfected as possible.


As jasper moves into the full orchestra market, his "having cake and eating it too" approach to business ain't gonna fly.


----------



## soulofsound

Jerner said:


> My mind is pretty much set on purchasing it. The legatos in PS's other stuff I've used have been second to none and having a dozen or so velocity layers seems fantastic. The two teaser packs are great too. The first one is good but the second one especially.
> 
> I bought con moto cello frankly for the loyalty pricing on Pacific but damn it's good. On top of the loyalty price, getting a second potentially fantastic product with Pacific solo strings down the line is pretty amazing too.
> 
> i feel dirty


some will see the second as major, some as minor

in any case the whole wait seems like a major second


----------



## polynaeus

With Jasper now having reduced the price of this library multiple times does it seem like there continues to be a lack of confidence in the library? 

I mean with inflation in the US I’d think the price would go the other way around. Especially considering he’s spending more time and more resources on working on it.


----------



## Raphioli

ka00 said:


> I am all for releasing now too. However, this is still Performance Samples and their policy is no customer support and everything is bought as is. So with this vendor and this policy, I’d personally rather it be as perfected as possible.


Completely agree. I don't really get why some people want to rush it.
Performance Samples isn't known to release updates once a library is released.
So I'd really prefer if they'd polish the library as much as they see fit.

Its not like Pacific is the only string library out there. (so many libraries we can use in the mean time)


----------



## Raphioli

polynaeus said:


> does it seem like there continues to be a lack of confidence in the library?


Absolutely not. that sounds silly. especially with Performance Samples.
He would probably scrap the library if he didn't have confidence.
Wasn't there a quoted post somewhere that said something along the lines of, he hasn't released a Solos of the Sea Cello just because he couldn't get any satisfying results so far? (sorry if I'm wrong btw)

And if price scaled with confidence, the library would probably be like $2,000 or more.
And that's *without *sec[REDACTED]


----------



## Vlzmusic

polynaeus said:


> With Jasper now having reduced the price of this library multiple times does it seem like there continues to be a lack of confidence in the library?


I am afraid in himself, rather than the library. I voiced my concerns on the matter some time ago, this pattern doesn't look healthy. No project worth being burnt and working yourself to exhaustion, be it physical or mental.


----------



## Sophus

I have no problem if the library just releases summer 2023. If it takes time it takes time. Don't rush it. 😊


----------



## wlinart

If he drops the price everytime there's another delay, he may delay it further


----------



## holywilly

Eventually pacific will be a freebie for everyone.


----------



## Honko

I can't make up my mind if I should go for CSS or Pacific. It would be my first "focused" strings library excluding BBC core. I kind of like Pacifics legato tone more than CSS but CSS have more attractive features. What do you think?


----------



## holywilly

There will be sufficient enough of videos comparing the two when Pacific is released. 

Personally I vote for Pacific, based on working with Vista and CSS 1.7.


----------



## Honko

holywilly said:


> There will be sufficient enough of videos comparing the two when Pacific is released.
> 
> Personally I vote for Pacific, based on working with Vista and CSS 1.7.


I hear you. The thing that's dragging me towards CSS is the marcato which is so useful for so many things.


----------



## Vlzmusic

Honko said:


> I can't make up my mind if I should go for CSS or Pacific. It would be my first "focused" strings library excluding BBC core. I kind of like Pacifics legato tone more than CSS but CSS have more attractive features. What do you think?


Are you eligible for loyalty intro price?


----------



## mussnig

Honko said:


> I hear you. The thing that's dragging me towards CSS is the marcato which is so useful for so many things.


What do you think can the CSS Marcatos do better than the Pacific Marcatos? Just curious, since I don't have CSS.


----------



## Henu

Let's just say that especially with the new CSS 1.7 update, I find it extremely hard for _any_ developer to top that.


----------



## Honko

Vlzmusic said:


> Are you eligible for loyalty intro price?


Not right now, but I guess I could just purchase the basses if I would want to buy Pacific


----------



## Honko

mussnig said:


> What do you think can the CSS Marcatos do better than the Pacific Marcatos? Just curious, since I don't have CSS.


The fact that CSS marcatos have legatos and can do runs means that a whole new level of performance is available to you. I suspect Pacific only works like a long spiccato


----------



## Zanshin

CSS will never sound like Pacific.

Follow your ears.


----------



## jamwerks

Maybe they could do a Pacifica Strings + Chorus bundle with the intro offer?!


----------



## Casiquire

mussnig said:


> What do you think can the CSS Marcatos do better than the Pacific Marcatos? Just curious, since I don't have CSS.


Those runs and quick moves! And ostinati, etc.



Honko said:


> I can't make up my mind if I should go for CSS or Pacific. It would be my first "focused" strings library excluding BBC core. I kind of like Pacifics legato tone more than CSS but CSS have more attractive features. What do you think?


CSS. It's tried and true, versatile, regularly updated. Pacific isn't out yet, isn't tried and true, isn't even finished, and is unlikely to receive updates. PS has never released a full scale orchestral string library, and most of their products aren't versatile but fit into very specific styles or sounds. It's no contest, especially for your first real full scale string library.

Maybe 6 months after the release of Pacific would be a good time to start actually comparing them and deciding which one is really more capable. We're far, far from that conversation right now.


----------



## Honko

Casiquire said:


> Those runs and quick moves! And ostinati, etc.
> 
> 
> CSS. It's tried and true, versatile, regularly updated. Pacific isn't out yet, isn't tried and true, isn't even finished, and is unlikely to receive updates. PS has never released a full scale orchestral string library, and most of their products aren't versatile but fit into very specific styles or sounds. It's no contest, especially for your first real full scale string library.
> 
> Maybe 6 months after the release of Pacific would be a good time to start actually comparing them and deciding which one is really more capable. We're far, far from that conversation right now.


Very good points. As much as I want Pacific I need to step back to reality and get the trustworthy (but maybe boring) library.


----------



## Raphioli

Honko said:


> I can't make up my mind if I should go for CSS or Pacific. It would be my first "focused" strings library excluding BBC core. I kind of like Pacifics legato tone more than CSS but CSS have more attractive features. What do you think?


The intro sale runs for around 2 months. I'd definitely wait before making a decision.

While I don't know when its going to be released,
you might end up in a situation where you could wait for various user reviews and eventually Black Friday would be right around the corner.
So even if you end up choosing CSS, you could get it during Black Friday.
Unless CSS is on a discount right now or you've already floored the G.A.S pedal and can't stop =p


----------



## Honko

Raphioli said:


> The intro sale runs for around 2 months. I'd definitely wait before making a decision.
> 
> While I don't know when its going to be released,
> you might end up in a situation where you could wait for various user reviews and eventually Black Friday would be right around the corner.
> So even if you end up choosing CSS, you could get it during Black Friday.
> Unless CSS is on a discount right now or you've already floored the G.A.S pedal and can't stop =p


Yes I would love to see Pacific demos before pulling the trigger. But I have student discount on CSS and I cannot wait forever for Pacific to come out since I need strings for my studies. Maybe I will wait 1 -2 weeks to see what's going on


----------



## Vlzmusic

Honko said:


> Not right now, but I guess I could just purchase the basses if I would want to buy Pacific


I didn't realize basses are just 69$ regular price. Yep, those together would still be less than CSS... I have a deep respect for CSS dev for being so consistent with his support and development of his libs, but I am PS person I guess, maybe because I like flashy things. 

I always found PS to be more "sexy" than competition, distracting your attention from apparent lack of variety, or less than perfect recording quality, be it solo Violin B, Oceania, Angry stuff or Con Motto. 

At some point BBC Pro got very close in terms of playability, but once JB strikes back with Pacific, he will be out of reach again.


----------



## Casiquire

Honko said:


> Very good points. As much as I want Pacific I need to step back to reality and get the trustworthy (but maybe boring) library.


I don't think you'd be bored 😁 I also don't think Pacific would be disappointing or too limited on its own merits so go with your heart; I just don't think we can treat it the same way as libraries that have been out for a long time. Pacific will come with a lot of unknowns


----------



## holywilly

Honko said:


> Yes I would love to see Pacific demos before pulling the trigger. But I have student discount on CSS and I cannot wait forever for Pacific to come out since I need strings for my studies. Maybe I will wait 1 -2 weeks to see what's going on


If you want to have comprehensive string library, why not checking out with other major developers’, they offer attractive EDU discounts, if you can’t wait for Pacific. I’m referring to German and Viennese developers.


----------



## Raphioli

Honko said:


> But I have student discount on CSS


oh! that makes sense


----------



## Honko

holywilly said:


> If you want to have comprehensive string library, why not checking out with other major developers’, they offer attractive EDU discounts, if you can’t wait for Pacific. I’m referring to German and Viennese developers.


Trust me, I have checked almost every major string library out there. And after my research there's only two (CSS, Pacific) that fit my budget and the type of sound and playability I'm going for. And I'm also picking up CSB so that's another point for going with CSS


----------



## mussnig

Honko said:


> Trust me, I have checked almost every major string library out there. And after my research there's only two (CSS, Pacific) that fit my budget and the type of sound and playability I'm going for. And I'm also picking up CSB so that's another point for going with CSS


One wild shot (but I guess you have already looked at it): if you are eligible for EDU discount, Spitfire Studio Strings Pro will be a very similar price (especially if they are going to do a -40 % EDU Back to School sale like last year). Sure, it's a completely different sound but it takes external reverb really well if you use the right mic combo or mic mix and it's quite versatile. But of course the legatos are nothing special and also the way it was performed and recorded is quite different (also only 3 dynamic layers for the sustains). Playability out of the box is for sure not comparable but I got very good results by layering Legato with a Spiccato or Marcato patch (very similar to the Extended Legatos in BBCSO). And having true divisi is a nice bonus.

I don't mean to say that they are any better than Pacific or CSS (I will get Pacific for sure myself and also have BBCSO Pro, SSS, SStS Pro, most of the Albions, Anthology and a couple of specialized libs). I am absolutely certain that Pacific will wipe the floor with SStS Pro and many others in a couple of scenarios. But if I were to choose only one, it would be SStS Pro because to me it's the most versatile out of the pack.


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> CSS. It's tried and true, versatile, regularly updated. Pacific isn't out yet, isn't tried and true, isn't even finished, and is unlikely to receive updates. PS has never released a full scale orchestral string library, and most of their products aren't versatile but fit into very specific styles or sounds. It's no contest, especially for your first real full scale string library.


And you forgot to mention you get 2nd Violins in CSS, but not in Pacific.


----------



## Alden Hill

CSS has never disappointed me. Getting used to the playing style took a little time. But when I did, amazing things happened. And I haven’t even updated to 1.7 yet!


----------



## Jett Hitt

CSS sucks. It has seconds. Who can deal with that? I only use libraries wherein the firsts are so good that I don't need seconds. None of that amateur crap for me.


----------



## Argy Ottas

Jett Hitt said:


> CSS sucks. It has seconds. Who can deal with that? I only use libraries wherein the firsts are so good that I don't need seconds. None of that amatuer crap for me.


Seconds on CSS? Pf, what a joke. I would rather use the transposition trick to the firsts.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

The second violin jokes… why won’t they die 🥲


----------



## Raphioli

haha I resisted v2 jokes when replying to Honko, but I probably should have gone all in.
I even deleted a gif right before posting 😂


----------



## Raphioli

NeonMediaKJT said:


> The second violin jokes… why won’t they die 🥲


Once its out, everyone will be busy with the library, it will fade (...I think)


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

CSS is dry and has less players.
Pacific is wet and has a full symphony string section.

CSS gives loyalty discount for the other libraries from Cinematic Studios.
Pacific gives loyalty discount for the other, upcoming sections of the orchestra (I think? Someone correct me if I’m wrong)


----------



## FireGS

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Pacific is wet and has a full symphony string section.





> No second violins


wot

kbye


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

FireGS said:


> wot
> 
> kbye


Oh man! How could I forget that!


----------



## Honko

Raphioli said:


> haha I resisted v2 jokes when replying to Honko, but I probably should have gone all in.
> I even deleted a gif right before posting 😂


I thank you so much for resisting :D


----------



## STMICHAELS

Raphioli said:


> haha I resisted v2 jokes when replying to Honko, but I probably should have gone all in.
> I even deleted a gif right before posting 😂


What does v2 mean?


----------



## Trash Panda

STMICHAELS said:


> What does v2 mean?


Second violas. People are losing their minds about mid-string divisi.


----------



## Raphioli

STMICHAELS said:


> What does v2 mean?


I meant 2nd violins. Its a habit when abbreviating violins 2 in my DAW


----------



## ka00

Trash Panda said:


> Second violas. People are losing their minds about mid-string divisi.


I’m pretty sure you can just buy basses and transpose all the other sections out of that. I heard Louis Armstrong did that trick on Star Trek VII: Voltron’s Revenge.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Raphioli

doctoremmet said:


>


I'm starting to wonder if I should have replied with a joke instead lol


----------



## Marsen

Someone said no second violins?


----------



## OHjorth

NeonMediaKJT said:


> The second violin jokes… why won’t they die 🥲


They die…… and then rise and walk again.. you know, a second time…


----------



## HarmonKard




----------



## Jerner

Raphioli said:


> I meant 2nd violins. Its a habit when abbreviating violins 2 in my DAW


Are you saying it won't have second viloas either? This is outrageous, they're my favourite.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

HarmonKard said:


>


Damn, that was catchy


----------



## mussnig

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> CSS is dry


I wouldn't really call it dry ...


----------



## Casiquire

mussnig said:


> I wouldn't really call it dry ...


Agreed, the room is quite prominent.


----------



## I like music

STMICHAELS said:


> What does v2 mean?


A guy called Jasper certainly doesn't know, apparently.


----------



## muziksculp

So, will Voyage Strings have 2nd Violins ?


----------



## JF

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but I did not see it before:


"Demonstration of the natural blend of the strings, brass, and perc in the same room -- AB/far mic only, moderate ~forte dynamic. Played from one multi patch."


----------



## polynaeus

New marketing ploy… don’t include 2nd violins, keep thread and brand awareness alive from the drama.


----------



## muziksculp

polynaeus said:


> New marketing ploy… don’t include 2nd violins, keep thread and brand awareness alive from the drama.


Very smart marketing strategy !

This thread would be many pages less if Pacific had 2nd Violins.


----------



## Kyle Preston

Possible footage from the recording session of the 2nd violins?


----------



## jamwerks

Maybe the mods could move all the jokes & BS to another thread?!


----------



## Bluemount Score

jamwerks said:


> Maybe the mods could move all the jokes & BS to another thread?!


This thread would be reduced to 10 pages


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Bluemount Score said:


> This thread would be reduced to 10 pages


...and by the time they're done the library might actually be already out 👀


----------



## Trash Panda

jamwerks said:


> Maybe the mods could move all the jokes & BS to another thread?!


Looks like someone is trying to split the community. Kinda like that guy who split the violins in half to bring us…


----------



## Noeticus

jamwerks said:


> Maybe the mods could move all the jokes & BS to another thread?!


You mean, move to a SECOND thread?


----------



## bedroomrockstar89

Just having some fun with the freebies, I’m blown away by the sound of these! Can’t wait for the real thing


----------



## Stevie

jamwerks said:


> Maybe the mods could move all the jokes & BS to another thread?!


Well, can’t blame you. I gotta say that reading VI threads gets more and more exhausting. A lot of noise, sparse information. And by reading thru the pages, I wasted 30 minutes and I’m not wiser than before.


----------



## ka00

Stevie said:


> Well, can’t blame you. I gotta say that reading VI threads gets more and more exhausting. A lot of noise, sparse information. And by reading thru the pages, I wasted 30 minutes and I’m not wiser than before.


If a post has a ton of laughing reactions then that should be a tip off that it’s not some kernel of knowledge you need.


----------



## Marsen

Yeah, kind a exhausting, to read threw all this, while we all do know very well, what happened…


----------



## muziksculp

Marsen said:


> Yeah, kind a exhausting, to read threw all this, while we all do know very well, what happened…


This was the 2nd Violins Leader, I can just imagine how the other 2nd violinists were playing.


----------



## Kyle Preston

jamwerks said:


> Maybe the mods could move all the jokes & BS to another thread?!



To those who hate fun, I'm playing the world's smallest 2nd violin for you.


----------



## muziksculp

I have a feeling that JB is watching this thread, cracking up, rather than trying to complete Pacific Strings for release. So... Let's stop posting on this thread, so he can focus on his work, and release it.


----------



## STMICHAELS

muziksculp said:


> I have a feeling that JB is watching this thread, cracking up, rather than trying to complete Pacific Strings for release. So... Let's stop posting on this thread, so he can focus on his work, and release it.


I 2nd that...


----------



## muziksculp

Every 2nd counts.


----------



## FireGS

Y'all broke me. I'm making jokes now.


----------



## Denkii

They say they don't like the chatter but they always come back for seconds.


----------



## ibanez1

Wish I had a stat bot to run on this thread that calculated the thread percentage for posts which contain second or 2nd .


----------



## FireGS

ibanez1 said:


> Wish I had a stat bot to run on this thread that calculated the thread percentage for posts which contain second or 2nd .


434 times total for both "2nd" and "second". Now 436.


----------



## polynaeus

FireGS said:


> 434 times total for both "2nd" and "second". Now 436.


Not too bad for 3,497 posts.


----------



## HarmonKard

_percentcalc.com_

*436* is what percent of *3497*? 

*12.46*

You knew there HAD to be a 2 in there, right? See, It's a sign.


----------



## FireGS

I did not search for "2 nd". It may be higher. I don't apologize though, this is still ridiculous.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Pianolando

jamwerks said:


> Maybe the mods could move all the jokes & BS to another thread?!


Yeah, it’s no big work, it’ll only take a second.


----------



## Ricgus3

Lower loyalty price ??? Now my FOMO is even greater. Did not pick up the con moto basses during the sale. Hard times in the world today so will still probably not afford it. But the gas is really high! :O


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

muziksculp said:


>


Shouldn’t it be “Any second now…” !


----------



## muziksculp

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Shouldn’t it be “Any second now…” !


Hehe, Yeah .. I wish.


----------



## Kony

Not sure if this has been posted.


----------



## Raphioli

Kony said:


> Not sure if this has been posted.




Yes, its been posted.



Spoiler



But posting a great sounding demo for the *second* time is better than posting another *second* violins joke right? 





Denkii said:


> mhhh hhmmmmmmmmm
> What's up at the end though?


----------



## Batuer

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Shouldn’t it be “Any second now…” !


Shouldn’t it be “Any century now…” ?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Batuer said:


> Shouldn’t it be “Any century now…” ?


This isn't 8Dio


----------



## Denkii

Bluemount Score said:


> This isn't 8Dio


This is 2Dio.


----------



## bedroomrockstar89

More fun with the freebies. The realism is blowing my mind over here


----------



## jazzman7

muziksculp said:


>


When I was a kid my pediatrician in the 60's had a clock like that. I knew a penicillin shot was coming and I'd be nervous...My Mom would say "Look at the cute clock!" trying to give a little comfort and distraction, Never worked long! haha

(Now I'm feeling a little anxious for some reason...)


----------



## jazzman7

jazzman7 said:


> When I was a kid my pediatrician in the 60's had a clock like that. I knew a penicillin shot was coming and I'd be nervous...My Mom would say "Look at the cute clock!" trying to give a little comfort and distraction, Never worked long! haha
> 
> (Now I'm feeling a little anxious for some reason...)


I'm sure I'll feel better in a couple of seconds


----------



## Vlzmusic

jazzman7 said:


> I'm sure I'll feel better in a couple of seconds


For a second, I thought two different people wrote that. I hope the forum doesn't get so deserted, so one has to answer himself, with a second post.


----------



## borisb2

What about second basses? Are they included?


----------



## jazzman7

Vlzmusic said:


> For a second, I thought two different people wrote that. I hope the forum doesn't get so deserted, so one has to answer himself, with a second post.


Any talk of A 2nd version of me will give my wallet a heart attack


----------



## Trash Panda

borisb2 said:


> What about second basses? Are they included?


I don’t think he’s heard of second basses, Pip.


----------



## Cass Hansen

and of course if he hits a home run, he'll cover all the basses!


----------



## FireGS

444.


----------



## STMICHAELS

FireGS said:


> 444.


444/222=2


----------



## duanran007

STMICHAELS said:


> 444/222=2


444/2=222
That means we also need 2nd viola, 2nd cello and 2nd bass


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Sounds to me like we're gonna need a second Jasper if we want Pacific to ever get release. And who the hell want a second violin anyway when you only have 2 hands. Thank about it...


----------



## Jerner

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> And who the hell want a second violin anyway when you only have 2 hands. Thank about it...


Well one for each hand. That's how it works, everyone knows that.


----------



## FireGS

452


----------



## doctoremmet

4:20


----------



## AudioLoco

42?


----------



## ibanez1

I think this thread is now a psychology experiment for how insane a group of individuals can become waiting for a product launch


----------



## Marsen

I decided to give this a pass, and better wait for the upcoming Atlantic Strings. 
I heard they do have second violins, although lacking first violins.

I think it’s a feature, not a bug.


----------



## muziksculp

Maybe Voyage Strings will have first and second vlns, but will not have any violas. You can use the second violins as violas if needed.


----------



## borisb2

What about using 2nd violins then from Berlin Strings?

Ok, I walk myself out…


----------



## Noeticus

Just in case some of you do not have a degree from Cambridge...











42


42 (or forty-two) is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. This Answer was first calculated by the supercomputer Deep Thought after seven and a half million years of thought. This shocking answer resulted in the construction of an even larger supercomputer...




hitchhikers.fandom.com


----------



## HarmonKard

Hey - this thread is consistently on page 1 of this forum. When was the last time was on page 2? I can't remember, it has been so long.


----------



## CG Smith

HarmonKard said:


> Hey - this thread is consistently on page 1 of this forum. When was the last time was on page 2? I can't remember, it has been so long.


So you are saying this thread has no 2nd pages?


----------



## FireGS

460.


----------



## Trash Panda

CG Smith said:


> So you are saying this thread has no 2nd pages?


Just no second page presence.


----------



## CG Smith

Trash Panda said:


> Just no second page presence.


Can we not just transpose the thread onto the second page?


----------



## Denkii

CG Smith said:


> Can we not just transpose the thread onto the second page?


Naa...there's too many complaints about certain posts and they lack variety. Their phrasing will cause phasing.


----------



## ibanez1

Enough is enough everyone. These jokes have got to stop. I'm really looking forward to this library and I can't find the meaningful updates on the release in the sea of second violin puns.

Twice today I have seen a notification for an update on this thread only to be disappointed with another reply about violins. Serious discourse always seems to come second to frivolity. Isn't the amazing library Jasper will bestow upon us what comes 1st to everyone's mind? It just feels that the excitement for release is secondary at this point.

There's 2 reasons I still watch this thread:
1. I don't want to miss the official release announcement by even 1 second
2. I want to see the replies of people who didn't take a second to read until this point

I might have got you in the first half but let me know if I even had you in the second .


----------



## Argy Ottas

Denkii said:


> Naa...there's too many complaints about certain posts and they lack variety. Their phrasing will cause phasing.


Sweet God...


----------



## Denkii

Argy Ottas said:


> Sweet God...


That's my....second name.
Ayyyyyyy


----------



## dzilizzi

What the complainers forget is that the second Pacific is released, it will be on the commercial announcements page. And secondly on the Deals Deals Deals thread. 

I really think people forget, for a second, that this is just discussion and not an actual announcement thread.  

Now how many violins are there? I keep forgetting. I need at least 2, but 18 would be even better.


----------



## muziksculp

I'm expecting my Performance Samples, customer Loyalty code for Pacific Symph. Strings, and Solo Strings to arrive in my email any day this month


----------



## HarmonKard

I am expecting beg of Nov. See, if Jasper is smart, he will release the library on the 2nd day of the 2nd to last month of 2022.

Ok, I'll stop, I'll stop!


----------



## FireGS

478.


HarmonKard said:


> I am expecting beg of Nov. See, if Jasper is smart, he will release the library on the 2nd day of the 2nd to last month of 2022.
> 
> Ok, I'll stop, I'll stop!


I counted all five of those 2's.


Denkii said:


>


This post had 4*69. *


----------



## Raphioli

FireGS said:


> 478.
> 
> I counted all five of those 2's.
> 
> This post had 4*69. *


I think its time to get smart.
Keine zweiten geigen?


----------



## ScarletJerry

ibanez1 said:


> I think this thread is now a psychology experiment for how insane a group of individuals can become waiting for a product launch


Poor Jasper - after reading the hype on this thread, his product cannot realistically meet anyone's expectations!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

All this talk of 2nd violins has made me hungry.


----------



## FireGS

Raphioli said:


> I think its time to get smart.
> Keine zweiten geigen?


vierhundertneunundsiebzig.


----------



## Saxer

Pacific will have 16 violins but the library can't be published until they have reached an agreement on which of them is the second.


----------



## muziksculp

Are they still tweaking the legatos ?


----------



## xanderscores

Sorry if I misuse the thread for this, but anyone got an idea how to emulate 2nd violins as soon as Pacific is out? I'm using Vista at the moment and I have panned my 2nd violins differently, but as soon as they play in unison I got phasing issues (well surprise...). Any hints how to do this right?


----------



## mussnig

muziksculp said:


> Are they still tweaking the legatos ?


Not really, but I've heard that they are still tuning the second violins to make them sound more like second violins and not transposed first violins ...


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

xanderscores said:


> Sorry if I misuse the thread for this, but anyone got an idea how to emulate 2nd violins as soon as Pacific is out? I'm using Vista at the moment and I have panned my 2nd violins differently, but as soon as they play in unison I got phasing issues (well surprise...). Any hints how to do this right?


asking about 2nd violins? We'll give you a pass this time.


----------



## muziksculp

xanderscores said:


> Sorry if I misuse the thread for this, but anyone got an idea how to emulate 2nd violins as soon as Pacific is out? I'm using Vista at the moment and I have panned my 2nd violins differently, but as soon as they play in unison I got phasing issues (well surprise...). Any hints how to do this right?


Did you miss the big news, It's the new world order. No 2nd Violins needed. Don't waste your time with 2nd violins, they are useless. 1st Vlns are good enough now.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

My expectations are for the library to simply come out…


----------



## Raphioli

xanderscores said:


> Sorry if I misuse the thread for this, but anyone got an idea how to emulate 2nd violins as soon as Pacific is out? I'm using Vista at the moment and I have panned my 2nd violins differently, but as soon as they play in unison I got phasing issues (well surprise...). Any hints how to do this right?


The transposition trick is worth trying out.

Someone posted a link to a relevant thread previously





Can someone explain the "transposition trick" to me?


I feel like I am an outsider looking in at a club that didn't invite me. I am going through Alexander's Scoring Stages 1, and he keeps referring to the "transposition trick" when talking about faking extra instruments using existing patches to make larger sections. I also see it mentioned a lot...




vi-control.net


----------



## Stevie

muziksculp said:


> I'm expecting my Performance Samples, customer Loyalty code for Pacific Symph. Strings, and Solo Strings to arrive in my email any day this month


I think this has been asked in the past, but with all the anticipation for new libraries, do you ever make music or actually dive into libraries in order to find out what you can do with them?
Or let me ask this: do you ever find happiness or fulfilment in making music?


----------



## I like music

Stevie said:


> I think this has been asked in the past, but with all the anticipation for new libraries, do you ever make music or actually dive into libraries in order to find out what you can do with them?
> Or let me ask this: do you ever find happiness or fulfilment in making music?


Muzik shared an example or two in the CSS thread I think. Check it out, as it shows he's diving into them for sure.
Also, clearly they get fulfilment out of the whole process. Does it matter how and to what degree? They ain't spending my money!
(Not intending to speak for Muzik, though I can see why you're curious)


----------



## jazzman7

Stevie said:


> I think this has been asked in the past, but with all the anticipation for new libraries, do you ever make music or actually dive into libraries in order to find out what you can do with them?
> Or let me ask this: do you ever find happiness or fulfilment in making music?


An excellent question. I think my desire/ability tends to ebb and flow. Lately, my desire has been dropping and self criticism and doubt has been on the rise. The pendulum usually swings back around. I'm assuming it will (Knock on wood)

I have plenty of excellent Strings. I will get Pacific, but it might be my last major purchase until I can get back consistently to a better place using the ton of great stuff I already have!


----------



## Nuno

Hello,

Does anyone know if i can still benefit from the loyalty intro price if I buy one of the qualifying libraries after Pacific is released?


Thank you in advance!


----------



## muziksculp

Nuno said:


> Hello,
> 
> Does anyone know if i can still benefit from the loyalty intro price if I buy one of the qualifying libraries after Pacific is released?
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance!


Nope. That's not the way Loyalty works 

Buy now, and wait.


----------



## X-Bassist

NeonMediaKJT said:


> My expectations are for the library to simply come out…


You're setting the bar kind of high, no? I expect this thread to go into 2023 before PS admits it was all a bad dream and they scrapped the project months ago.... didn't you hear?


----------



## artomatic

I think it'll be released the *2nd* of October.


----------



## Saxer

artomatic said:


> I think it'll be released the *2nd* of October.


There are no *2nd*'s.


----------



## hayvel

X-Bassist said:


> You're setting the bar kind of high, no? I expect this thread to go into 2023 before PS admits it was all a bad dream and they scrapped the project months ago.... didn't you hear?


I'm sure it was all just a hoax to finally sell some these damn Con Moto basses.


----------



## Vik

Stevie said:


> I think this has been asked in the past, but with all the anticipation for new libraries, do you ever make music or actually dive into libraries in order to find out what you can do with them?
> Or let me ask this: do you ever find happiness or fulfilment in making music?


Interesting question – especially when one is asking oneself, and surely relevant to a lot more than Musiksculp. When asking oneself, as a possible gear addict, the question is relevant for many reasons, like eg.'could I spend this money on something else which would give me or others more real value?'. 

When asking the questions to others, the situation is a bit different IMO, because it could become, worst case, a move from 'ethics' to 'moral' (if using ethics as something one applies to ones own life while moral/moralism is about questioning and judging others). I've had long periods where I focus only on music, and not libraries or other gear, but I've also had periods where the tools I use has become some kind of hobby. And if someone are collecting stamps, most of us probably wouldn't ask them if they are actually are owning them for something useful, or if they are just collecting them. IMO the same should apply to sample libraries: for those who buy them and almost never use them, they mainly serve as sponsors of the VI industry, and probably contribute, slowly, to VI prices gong down. Fine with me, unless they could have spent the money in a way they felt was better (which also would be fine with me, but maybe not for themselves).

I wrote in a recent thread that I should have sticked to my statement about never owning a computer (for music work), because I think I would have produced more music and developed more as a composer if I had avoided the whole gear/audio/sound focus I've alywas had in the background for the kast 30 years. If someone makes a great piece of music which doesn't sound that great on their piano or with a basic demo, there are many ways to fix that, but if someone makes weak composition with brilliant samples, there aren't many ways to realistically turn that piece into something more valuable (from a compositional point of view) than changing it. The weak composition may sell more, but that's a different story.


----------



## Raphioli

X-Bassist said:


> You're setting the bar kind of high, no? I expect this thread to go into 2023 before PS admits it was all a bad dream and they scrapped the project months ago.... didn't you hear?


I am starting to actually have a feeling that it might be pushed in to 2023, because of the recent official Kontakt 7 (Komplete 14) announcement.
He may want to beta test the library on Kontakt 7, and if there's any bugs unique to Kontakt 7, then he'll probably need more time to fix them.


----------



## doctoremmet

Yes, especially seeing how all the graphical design that went into the logo that’s on the UI definitely needs to still be hi-res when the 3 early adopters with Kontakt 7 HiDpi scale the hell out of their libraries, this becomes important.


----------



## FinGael

doctoremmet said:


> Yes, especially seeing how all the graphical design that went into the logo that’s on the UI definitely needs to still be hi-res when the 3 early adopters with Kontakt 7 HiDpi scale the hell out of their libraries, this becomes important.


I heard the opposite: hi-res is for purists (who think they are posh with their second violins and other unnecessary things...).


----------



## Stevie

Vik said:


> Interesting question – especially when one is asking oneself, and surely relevant to a lot more than Musiksculp. When asking oneself, as a possible gear addict, the question is relevant for many reasons, like eg.'could I spend this money on something else which would give me or others more real value?'.
> 
> When asking the questions to others, the situation is a bit different IMO, because it could become, worst case, a move from 'ethics' to 'moral' (if using ethics as something one applies to ones own life while moral/moralism is about questioning and judging others). I've had long periods where I focus only on music, and not libraries or other gear, but I've also had periods where the tools I use has become some kind of hobby. And if someone are collecting stamps, most of us probably wouldn't ask them if they are actually are owning them for something useful, or if they are just collecting them. IMO the same should apply to sample libraries: for those who buy them and almost never use them, they mainly serve as sponsors of the VI industry, and probably contribute, slowly, to VI prices gong down. Fine with me, unless they could have spent the money in a way they felt was better (which also would be fine with me, but maybe not for themselves).
> 
> I wrote in a recent thread that I should have sticked to my statement about never owning a computer (for music work), because I think I would have produced more music and developed more as a composer if I had avoided the whole gear/audio/sound focus I've alywas had in the background for the kast 30 years. If someone makes a great piece of music which doesn't sound that great on their piano or with a basic demo, there are many ways to fix that, but if someone makes weak composition with brilliant samples, there aren't many ways to realistically turn that piece into something more valuable (from a compositional point of view) than changing it. The weak composition may sell more, but that's a different story.


I definitely agree on that and can relate. Personally, I have reduced my library purchases by A LOT. 
I investigate if library X really covers some new ground that I haven't covered, yet.
My experience is: the more libraries you own, the less you know about their strenghts and weaknesses, because you are simply overwhelmed by the sheer amount of choices. 
There is a sweet spot, where too many libraries can actually make it harder to get music / work done.


----------



## Marsen

Yeah, but without 2. Violins, you can learn it much faster.


----------



## jazzman7

Very possible the Kontakt 7 issue has already been one reason for the delay. Jasper is prob a step or 2 (There it is again!) ahead of us with his developers radar. So it may be something already factored in


----------



## jbuhler

jazzman7 said:


> Very possible the Kontakt 7 issue has already been one reason for the delay. Jasper is prob a step or 2 (There it is again!) ahead of us with his developers radar. So it may be something already factored in


If so, I hope it doesn’t require the full version of Kontakt 7…


----------



## jazzman7

jbuhler said:


> If so, I hope it doesn’t require the full version of Kontakt 7…


Me too!


----------



## Raphioli

jbuhler said:


> If so, I hope it doesn’t require the full version of Kontakt 7…


yeah, that'll be the only reason I would change my mind buying it. (have no plans to upgrade from K6 right away. maybe during a NI sale next year at the earliest)


----------



## Denkii

jbuhler said:


> If so, I hope it doesn’t require the full version of Kontakt 7…


That would be very purist though, wouldn't it?


----------



## Cass Hansen

Just be glad it isn't Kontakt 2...then we would have a problem!


----------



## mussnig

jbuhler said:


> If so, I hope it doesn’t require the full version of Kontakt 7…


It says "Built for Kontakt 6.6 and above" on the product page.


----------



## Denkii

they also said nobody has any intention of building a wall


----------



## artinro

Folks, managed to get in touch with Jasper. K7 won't be delaying the final work on Pacific. It will be released for K6.



polynaeus said:


> With Jasper now having reduced the price of this library multiple times does it seem like there continues to be a lack of confidence in the library?
> 
> I mean with inflation in the US I’d think the price would go the other way around. Especially considering he’s spending more time and more resources on working on it.


No, this is absolutely not the case I can assure you. He recognizes that the wait has been long due to the ongoing health issue he's endured over the last year and he's trying to make the delay worth it for everyone with the lower loyalty price, solo strings additions, freebies, and also an extended (as of recently) intro period of 12 weeks. As a tester, I can tell you that (if anything) his confidence in the library has actually grown as he's discovered, tweaked, and tested things that have made the library even better than it would have been if it were already released (particularly with the same note repetitions). 



SimonCharlesHanna said:


> As jasper moves into the full orchestra market, his "having cake and eating it too" approach to business ain't gonna fly.


"as is" is pretty standard for software eulas -- Jasper just goes out of his way to be super clear and transparent about it on his "terms" pages. It's a model that's worked well for him over the years and I don't see it changing.


----------



## ibanez1

artinro said:


> Folks, managed to get in touch with Jasper. K7 won't be delaying the final work on Pacific. It will be released for K6.
> 
> 
> No, this is absolutely not the case I can assure you. He recognizes that the wait has been long due to the ongoing health issue he's endured over the last year and he's trying to make the delay worth it for everyone with the lower loyalty price, solo strings additions, freebies, and also an extended (as of recently) intro period of 12 weeks. As a tester, I can tell you that (if anything) his confidence in the library has actually grown as he's discovered, tweaked, and tested things that have made the library even better than it would have been if it were already released (particularly with the same note repetitions).
> 
> 
> "as is" is pretty standard for software eulas -- Jasper just goes out of his way to be super clear and transparent about it on his "terms" pages. It's a model that's worked well for him over the years and I don't see it changing.


As much as we joke about n+1 levels of violins , I think most of us are very excited about this library regardless of the current delay. The post count on this thread is quite telling . Health issues are never easy and he's running a one man show so it's very understandable.


----------



## Loerpert




----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

artinro said:


> "as is" is pretty standard for software eulas -- Jasper just goes out of his way to be super clear and transparent about it on his "terms" pages. It's a model that's worked well for him over the years and I don't see it changing.


it's not just "as is" it's also no support amongst other things that in my country at least, directly violate consumer law. For instance, if a product is broken you can't just claim "as is" and offer "no support" (or no support in general). Hence my comment that he is having his cake and eating it to; he wants to run a business with out acknowledging the responsibility that goes with it.

I'm not hating, I love what he does and he seems like a nice guy (and I am 100% picking up Pacific Strings) but I am not going to excuse his way of business because of those positive impressions.


----------



## Casiquire

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> it's not just "as is" it's also no support amongst other things that in my country at least, directly violate consumer law. For instance, if a product is broken you can't just claim "as is" and offer "no support". Hence my comment that he is having his cake and eating it to. He wants to run a business with out most of the responsibility that goes with it.


But he *does* support an actually broken product. If the download fails, he'll help you out. Etc. He *does not* send you denoised patches or help you figure out how the modwheel works.


----------



## Blakus

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> it's not just "as is" it's also no support amongst other things that in my country at least, directly violate consumer law. For instance, if a product is broken you can't just claim "as is" and offer "no support". Hence my comment that he is having his cake and eating it to. He wants to run a business with 0 of the responsibility.


The issue with samples is that what one person sees as "broken", someone else sees as perfection. It's a very personal thing. Hard-tuned, auto-leveled samples for example I think are the worst, whereas I know many others are terrified at this prospect. JB is very upfront about his products, their strengths, and their weaknesses, hell - the company tagline even states the philosophy behind his libraries. As a small dev, JB is protecting himself from being buried in endless and somewhat pointless support emails of people disagreeing with his philosophy or people not understanding what Kontakt is. Now, if you have an *actual *real tech issue getting the library to work, I guarantee you'll get a response from JB 

Regarding violating consumer law. You don't own anything, you're not purchasing a product, you're purchasing a license to use the software as is (which is not uncommon). Take it or leave it I guess.

Have you had a bad experience, Simon? Intrigued at why you're getting upset about this.


----------



## Raphioli

artinro said:


> Folks, managed to get in touch with Jasper. K7 won't be delaying the final work on Pacific. It will be released for K6.
> 
> 
> No, this is absolutely not the case I can assure you. He recognizes that the wait has been long due to the ongoing health issue he's endured over the last year and he's trying to make the delay worth it for everyone with the lower loyalty price, solo strings additions, freebies, and also an extended (as of recently) intro period of 12 weeks. As a tester, I can tell you that (if anything) his confidence in the library has actually grown as he's discovered, tweaked, and tested things that have made the library even better than it would have been if it were already released (particularly with the same note repetitions).
> 
> 
> "as is" is pretty standard for software eulas -- Jasper just goes out of his way to be super clear and transparent about it on his "terms" pages. It's a model that's worked well for him over the years and I don't see it changing.


Appreciate the update!
Really looking forward to the library


----------



## Tekkera

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> it's not just "as is" it's also no support amongst other things that in my country at least, directly violate consumer law. For instance, if a product is broken you can't just claim "as is" and offer "no support" (or no support in general). Hence my comment that he is having his cake and eating it to; he wants to run a business with out acknowledging the responsibility that goes with it.
> 
> I'm not hating, I love what he does and he seems like a nice guy (and I am 100% picking up Pacific Strings) but I am not going to excuse his way of business because of those positive impressions.


Yes because sample companies provide so much support to their products post launch. Out of tune and time samples for instance? Too bad, hope there is a spring cleaning update and that is all that can be done or fix it yourself. If it's in proprietary players however, there truly is nothing we can do but file a complaint about some issue, grab a bible and start praying. There seems to be a trend with this stuff that backend player issues get addressed while samples get left in the dust.

If it's made correctly in the first place then support required should be minimal. All these big devs claim to provide so much support, but despite me filing tickets to many of these companies problems never get resolved. Not unexpected


----------



## Casiquire

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Whether it's a product, licence or service doesn't really factor into (or diminish) a retailer's responsibilities.
> 
> I'm not upset at all - as I said I am waiting every day for Pacific Strings to release so it can be my new defacto string lib. I just don't like businesses trying to make up their own rules. I've seen far too many people screwed over by businesses (and land lords :() that make people believe they have no rights.
> 
> Now - it's lovely to hear that Jasper isn't following through on many of the rights he's attempting to have people sign away. Ill state once more that I can only go by what I have seen and experienced and that is limited to the EULA which I do not like.


EULAs can't violate laws. They're just a way for devs to legally cover their bases to the fullest extent they can. Laws around samples aren't cut and dry anyway, in pretty much any country, so having a EULA may in fact come in handy every so often. Plus, there's the psychological discouragement factor at play even for parts that are completely legally unenforceable. I get why he does it.

Plus we forget that devs drop product support all the time. Products on an old sampler or player, devs that go out of business, products that get discontinued, or devs whose support is so bad that it truly doesn't exist. A lot of people prefer to just know upfront.


----------



## soulofsound

Casiquire said:


> EULAs can't violate laws. They're just a way for devs to legally cover their bases to the fullest extent they can. Laws around samples aren't cut and dry anyway, in pretty much any country, so having a EULA may in fact come in handy every so often. Plus, there's the psychological discouragement factor at play even for parts that are completely legally unenforceable. I get why he does it.
> 
> Plus we forget that devs drop product support all the time. Products on an old sampler or player, devs that go out of business, products that get discontinued, or devs whose support is so bad that it truly doesn't exist. A lot of people prefer to just know upfront.


Yeah, i like his approach.


----------



## Raphioli

Its nice to see some serious conversations from time to time.
Feels refreshing because of all the 2nd violin jokes (I know I'm guilty too...)


----------



## Henning

To say something productive, I have recently discovered that the Vista violins really go along nicely with the minimalist Afflatus patch (yeah, I got free stuff from Strezov and Jasper before, but try it yourself). Layer in some Spitfire OA evos and it really sounds quite lovely.


----------



## monochrome

not sure when but they changed the website from saying intro sale 8-9 weeks to intro sale ~12 weeks. they also updated the solo strings eta from Q3 to Q4 on the main page to properly match the info on the strings-specific page


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## NeonMediaKJT

monochrome said:


> not sure when but they changed the website from saying intro sale 8-9 weeks to intro sale ~12 weeks. they also updated the solo strings eta from Q3 to Q4 on the main page to properly match the info on the strings-specific page


But what about regular pacific strings


----------



## bedroomrockstar89

Anybody have any guesses as to what the differences will be between pacific strings and the string library jasper collaborated on with audio imperia?


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

bedroomrockstar89 said:


> Anybody have any guesses as to what the differences will be between pacific strings and the string library jasper collaborated on with audio imperia?


Not just guesses - Pacific is a symphonic strings library, the collaboration will be chamber strings.

Edit: Actually, this does seem to be a guess


----------



## bedroomrockstar89

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Not just guesses - Pacific is a symphonic strings library, the collaboration will be chamber strings.


Really? Was that announced somewhere? I can’t find any info beyond the little clip they posted on instagram a while back


----------



## doctoremmet

bedroomrockstar89 said:


> Really? Was that announced somewhere? I can’t find any info beyond the little clip they posted on instagram a while back


It was never announced. It was assumed, and sort of became its own truth. Here are some highlights taken from the relevant thread:















Nowhere -as far as I can see- have Audio Imperia actually ever called it chamber strings.

We do have a sound clip:






Audio Imperia and Performance Samples Strings Library


I wonder if the upcoming Areia Legato improvement is going to be similar to the Nucleus Legato improvement that it got in the last update, or a Legato improvement that would enhance it even further more than what the Nucleus Legato offered ?




vi-control.net


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Maybe the audio imperia one is voyage?


----------



## Raphioli

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Maybe the audio imperia one is voyage?



Audio Imperia already denied that in the thread posted above.


audioimperia said:


> Hey Russell. Voyage is a 100% Performance Samples project








Audio Imperia and Performance Samples Strings Library


From what I understood, Voyage is an upcoming Performance Sample library recorded in the same hall as Vista and Oceania I/II. Jasper started to communicate on it back in January 2021. We don't have any infos on AI being involved, yet. AI and PS are collaborating on a Chamber Strings library...




vi-control.net


----------



## muziksculp

One thing for is for sure, both Pacific and Voyage are taking us on a very long waiting trip so far.


----------



## Lassi Tani

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Maybe the audio imperia one is voyage?


Maybe Audio Imperia will release the 2nd violins?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Lassi Tani said:


> Maybe Audio Imperia will release the 2nd violins?


----------



## Loerpert




----------



## Getsumen

Lassi Tani said:


> Maybe Audio Imperia will release the 2nd violins?


----------



## FireGS

Hmmmmm... Some of those releases sound "off".


----------



## monochrome

it says it's not final


----------



## Trash Panda

Going to need another 3 months of tuning to get that right.


----------



## AMBi

FireGS said:


> Hmmmmm... Some of those releases sound "off".



Those sus cello releases sound sus


----------



## FireGS

Its weird, the first few sound off, next few sound right, then next few are off, next few right. I can't take this.


----------



## jbuhler

Trash Panda said:


> Going to need another 3 months of tuning to get that right.


Optimist.


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> Hmmmmm... Some of those releases sound "off".



I think I hear the second violins playing in this clip. Maybe they are why the releases sound off to you.


----------



## bedroomrockstar89

FireGS said:


> Hmmmmm... Some of those releases sound "off".



I’m not hearing what you’re hearing. This sounds fantastic to me! Jasper posted an update on the legato with another sample of the note repeats on his instagram story


----------



## muziksculp

So...


----------



## Jett Hitt

I certainly hear it, but I think that this is just sloppy, unedited keyboard playing. I noticed the same thing in a video of a piano roll that JB posted. You could see that the midi data needed to be trimmed. At least I hope that is what is happening here.


----------



## JF

Here is another new example:


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

No this is perfect. Release!!!


----------



## Igorianych

AAAA! I want this strings! NOW!


----------



## Raphioli




----------



## NoamL

bedroomrockstar89 said:


> I’m not hearing what you’re hearing. This sounds fantastic to me! Jasper posted an update on the legato with another sample of the note repeats on his instagram story


agreed, this sounds great throughout. It's not easy at all to do a passage like this with traditionally sampled libraries.


----------



## FireGS

bedroomrockstar89 said:


> I’m not hearing what you’re hearing. This sounds fantastic to me! Jasper posted an update on the legato with another sample of the note repeats on his instagram story


The releases on some notes sound disconnected by a few 10s of milliseconds. Some don't.


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> The releases on some notes sound disconnected by a few 10s of milliseconds. Some don't.


I didn't acquire microscopic hearing yet. They sound good. no problemo for me.


----------



## polynaeus

So does everyone think Jasper is just refining and perfecting the library? Or do you think Pacific just isn’t making the cut and Jasper is trying to bandaid / Frankenstein the library up?


----------



## OHjorth

JF said:


> Here is another new example:



Someone should replicate this passage with other libs like CSS to compare the repetitions.


----------



## BL

I feel like something is missing with the repetitions. I do wonder if the repetitions have round robin at different dynamics and if the sustains themselves have round robin? Did Vista have round robin sustains? I wonder if this new note repetition method will find its way to Vista via an update.


----------



## doctoremmet

BL said:


> via an update.


----------



## Snarf

polynaeus said:


> So does everyone think Jasper is just refining and perfecting the library? Or do you think Pacific just isn’t making the cut and Jasper is trying to bandaid / Frankenstein the library up?



He has been pretty clear about his progress on FB. He is working on improving the same-note sustain repetitions. The soundcloud doodles show this as well.

This is a huge deal. If Jasper can pull off quick yet realistic repetitions, a whole new expressive space of idiomatic string writing becomes accessible. Strings do this stuff all the time, but samples generally struggle with extended same note patterns (excluding phrase libraries).


----------



## Lord Daknight

AMBi said:


> Those sus cello releases sound sus


🎻ඞ


----------



## polynaeus

Snarf said:


> He has been pretty clear about his progress on FB. He is working on improving the same-note sustain repetitions. The soundcloud doodles show this as well.
> 
> This is a huge deal. If Jasper can pull off quick yet realistic repetitions, a whole new expressive space of idiomatic string writing becomes accessible. Strings do this stuff all the time, but samples generally struggle with extended same note patterns (excluding phrase libraries).


Got it. Don’t follow him on FB.

I wonder if he originally set out, when tracking, to accomplish same note repetitions or if this was a goal after the fact?


----------



## Vlzmusic

polynaeus said:


> Pacific just isn’t making the cut


Yeah, you pretty much summed up what everyone on this thread thinks.


----------



## Casiquire

polynaeus said:


> So does everyone think Jasper is just refining and perfecting the library? Or do you think Pacific just isn’t making the cut and Jasper is trying to bandaid / Frankenstein the library up?


I think he just has a fluid production style and doesn't send it out until it "feels" right, and production is slower and trickier than it should be because of his hearing issues, and about every few days this thread needs to cool down a little. I'm surprised it hasn't just been locked until more information comes out.


----------



## monochrome

Casiquire said:


> I think he just has a fluid production style and doesn't send it out until it "feels" right, and production is slower and trickier than it should be because of his hearing issues, and about every few days this thread needs to cool down a little. I'm surprised it hasn't just been locked until more information comes out.


I'm just happy people chilled on the same second violin jokes over and over where just mentioning "second" in the post was somehow peak comedy


----------



## davidson

monochrome said:


> I'm just happy people chilled on the same second violin jokes over and over where just mentioning "second" in the post was somehow peak comedy


I second this.


----------



## jazzman7

I'm glad this thread has not been locked. There has been a lot of good info... and who doesn't enjoy a little anticipation and rumor? I've not seen too much in the way of arguments or upset either. There's been little back and forth on the 2nd Vln issue and a lot of overworn jokes, but my kids can tell you that overworn jokes are one of my Superpowers


----------



## soulofsound

davidson said:


> I second this.


Your timing here was second to none.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

Guys…can we please just chill out with these jokes? Just for a second?


----------



## Casiquire

jazzman7 said:


> I'm glad this thread has not been locked. There has been a lot of good info... and who doesn't enjoy a little anticipation and rumor? I've not seen too much in the way of arguments or upset either. There's been little back and forth on the 2nd Vln issue and a lot of overworn jokes, but my kids can tell you that overworn jokes are one of my Superpowers


There is some good info--rarely enough that it can open up for a few days after a new sample comes but then lock back up. There's been so much non-info in here that we still occasionally get the odd question like "do you guys know any tricks to make fake second violins?" Even though there was a really helpful discussion about it a hundred thirty pages earlier but who would expect to find a helpful conversation when the last x-number of pages was nothing like that? Continuing to spam the thread with non-info has thoroughly drowned out any good info there may have been, so it's having a real, negative consequence for forum members looking for good info and, by extension, PS and Jasper too.

Anyway I'm not saying we shouldn't have fun and I'm not super upset or anything, it's just my observation, and the weird vibe that filling a sample talk thread with repetitive nothingness is disrespectful. And that doesn't fall on any one person so I'm not pointing fingers. I think it's worth being conscious of.


----------



## Trash Panda

Casiquire said:


> There is some good info--rarely enough that it can open up for a few days after a new sample comes but then lock back up. There's been so much non-info in here that we still occasionally get the odd question like "do you guys know any tricks to make fake second violins?" Even though there was a really helpful discussion about it a hundred thirty pages earlier but who would expect to find a helpful conversation when the last x-number of pages was nothing like that? Continuing to spam the thread with non-info has thoroughly drowned out any good info there may have been, so it's having a real, negative consequence for forum members looking for good info and, by extension, PS and Jasper too.
> 
> Anyway I'm not saying we shouldn't have fun and I'm not super upset or anything, it's just my observation, and the weird vibe that filling a sample talk thread with repetitive nothingness is disrespectful. And that doesn't fall on any one person so I'm not pointing fingers. I think it's worth being conscious of.


If Jasper cared about such things, he would create a new account/undelete his account and host a commercial announcements thread that he can keep clean. I’d say the disrespect is all in your mind.


----------



## Ricgus3

Trash Panda said:


> If Jasper cared about such things, he would create a new account/undelete his account and host a commercial announcements thread that he can keep clean. I’d say the disrespect is all in your mind.


Ye he would probably create a second account and use a second thread to clear up all information


----------



## Lord Daknight

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Guys…can we please just chill out with these jokes? Just for a second?


So Troels Folmann and Christian Henson walk into a bar...


----------



## Loerpert

Lord Daknight said:


> So Troels Folmann and Christian Henson walk into a bar...


Announcing their new brand, Spitpaint.


----------



## Simon Lee

Lord Daknight said:


> So Troels Folmann and Christian Henson walk into a bar...





Google Image Result for https://c.tenor.com/s0na9it6jrIAAAAM/shaun-the-sheep-aardman.gif


----------



## FinGael

I am already afraid of the moment the library is being released. 

(The library will probably be very nice, but thinking of surviving without second violin jokes is a hard one.)


----------



## Raphioli

FinGael said:


> I am already afraid of the moment the library is being released.
> 
> (The library will probably be very nice, but thinking of surviving without second violin jokes is a hard one.)


Nah, I believe most people would be busy deep diving in to the library.


----------



## Lord Daknight

Raphioli said:


> Nah, I believe most people would be busy deep diving in to the library.


That's why Jasper is never releasing it, he finds the 2nd violin jokes too funny and he doesn't want them to stop


----------



## Multipdf

If anyone at PS is listening…..Please Jasper….can you confirm whats going on?……Although, despite the delay, I will buy the library, because Pacific Sordinos are the best I have ever heard


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Does anyone who is beta testing any new info? New demos? Anything?


----------



## dzilizzi

You know, there is always the search function if you are looking for some actual information. But usually, I go to the last 2 pages and if the jokes are still going, I know the library isn't here.


----------



## jazzman7

Casiquire said:


> There is some good info--rarely enough that it can open up for a few days after a new sample comes but then lock back up. There's been so much non-info in here that we still occasionally get the odd question like "do you guys know any tricks to make fake second violins?" Even though there was a really helpful discussion about it a hundred thirty pages earlier but who would expect to find a helpful conversation when the last x-number of pages was nothing like that? Continuing to spam the thread with non-info has thoroughly drowned out any good info there may have been, so it's having a real, negative consequence for forum members looking for good info and, by extension, PS and Jasper too.
> 
> Anyway I'm not saying we shouldn't have fun and I'm not super upset or anything, it's just my observation, and the weird vibe that filling a sample talk thread with repetitive nothingness is disrespectful. And that doesn't fall on any one person so I'm not pointing fingers. I think it's worth being conscious of.


I agree that anyone late to the party would find this thread a big haystack. I've been on this one a lot because honestly, when a notification comes thru of another post on this thread after a delay of a cpl days... something in the back of my mind goes, 
"Is this it? Finally?!?" 

I'm ready to pull out the popcorn and enjoy the avalanche of reactions while I wait for the download mania to subside


----------



## Baronvonheadless

I know one thing is for sure. 

I’ll be downloading Pacific Strings the second it comes out!


----------



## ibanez1

I'm just lurking around this thread to distract me from the temptation of buying afflatus half off right now. Staying the course for Pacific .


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

ibanez1 said:


> I'm just lurking around this thread to distract me from the temptation of buying afflatus half off right now. Staying the course for Pacific .


Haha! Same! Could never afford afflatis at normal price. needing pacific to come out


----------



## STMICHAELS

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Haha! Same! Could never afford afflatis at normal price. needing pacific to come out


How would you describe the difference between the two?


----------



## dzilizzi

STMICHAELS said:


> How would you describe the difference between the two?


Afflatus is pretty much ensembles if I remember correctly. They sound good, but aren't the individual sections you will get with Pacific. It will depend on how you write which will work better.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> Afflatus is pretty much ensembles if I remember correctly. They sound good, but aren't the individual sections you will get with Pacific. It will depend on how you write which will work better.


Not only Ensembles, but it also offers the individual section articulations by style.

Here is a pic of all the violins (single patches).


----------



## muziksculp

Oh.. and Afflatus has 2nd Violins


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> Not only Ensembles, but it also offers the individual section articulations by style.
> 
> Here is a pic of all the violins (single patches).


Couldn't find it on the website, but that was what I remembered. My memory isn't that good. Also, if I remember correctly, I bought it right before Berlin had their half off Kontakt version sale...


----------



## muziksculp

So.. What's up with Pacific Strings ? Did they sink in the Pacific ?


----------



## lettucehat

dzilizzi said:


> Couldn't find it on the website, but that was what I remembered. My memory isn't that good. Also, if I remember correctly, I bought it right before Berlin had their half off Kontakt version sale...


We truly weren't ready for that first 50% off, what a day in sample library history.


----------



## ibanez1

muziksculp said:


> Not only Ensembles, but it also offers the individual section articulations by style.
> 
> Here is a pic of all the violins (single patches).


Please no! Don't trigger my secret desire to buy this library with the list of seductive legato articulation names! JB needs some special legato names to compete.

Something like:
2nd violins legato

I might get real hot and bothered for that.


----------



## dzilizzi

lettucehat said:


> We truly weren't ready for that first 50% off, what a day in sample library history.


Yeah, I hit my savings for that. Not a big deal at the time. Well, not for the strings. But the brass and percussion were what sent me over budget.


----------



## Ricgus3

muziksculp said:


> So.. What's up with Pacific Strings ? Did they sink in the Pacific ?


Maybe Pacific and Infinite Strings is having a chicken race!


----------



## Baronvonheadless

I’ve been speaking to Jasper on Facebook. There was a slight…critical error discovered recently once realizing he confused Pacific for the Atlantic. 

There’s going to have to be a whole lot of editing here.


----------



## muziksculp

Baronvonheadless said:


> I’ve been speaking to Jasper on Facebook. There was a slight…critical error discovered recently once realizing he confused Pacific for the Atlantic.
> 
> There’s going to have to be a whole lot of editing here.


Oh Dear, Oh My... Now that's a major problem they have to deal with.


----------



## Denkii

Baronvonheadless said:


> I’ve been speaking to Jasper on Facebook. There was a slight…critical error discovered recently once realizing he confused Pacific for the Atlantic.
> 
> There’s going to have to be a whole lot of editing here.


Guess he'll be going on a voyage first.
Badumm tssss


----------



## Marsen

I don‘t need another string library. I really don’t.

But on a second thought, I need those violins.
But only the second ones.


----------



## Cass Hansen

Baronvonheadless said:


> I’ve been speaking to Jasper on Facebook. There was a slight…critical error discovered recently once realizing he confused Pacific for the Atlantic.
> 
> There’s going to have to be a whole lot of editing here.


Could you be more Pacific?


----------



## dzilizzi

Cass Hansen said:


> Could you be more Pacific?


I used to have a coworker who could not say the word "specific" She always would say pacific or pacifically. Drove me crazy, though I didn't say anything.


----------



## Jett Hitt

Cass Hansen said:


> Could you be more Pacific?


I second that. How pacifically speaking does one confuse an ocean that clearly requires second violins with a first-violin-only ocean? This is gives me pause for . . . 1/60th of a minute.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Jett Hitt said:


> 1/60th of a minute.


Ladies and gentlemen, we present to you... the stage in the evolution of 2nd Violin jokes that comes after the first one


----------



## Trash Panda

You all need to stop being so disrespectful to Jasper right this...instant.


----------



## muziksculp

Trash Panda said:


> You all need to stop being so disrespectful to Jasper right this...instant.


EDIT :  


Trash Panda said:


> You all need to stop being so disrespectful to Jasper right this...second.


----------



## Baronvonheadless

These jokes are getting pacific. 

...Wait I mean pathetic...

Wait I mean...hold on, give me a second.


----------



## Kony

Update on the PS website:

*Project Status Update: ‘Pacific – Ensemble Strings’ is now in late beta and release is forthcoming. *​


----------



## ibanez1

Kony said:


> Update on the PS website:
> 
> *Project Status Update: ‘Pacific – Ensemble Strings’ is now in late beta and release is forthcoming. *​


The website has said this since the end of July after the release got pushed right?


----------



## Kony

ibanez1 said:


> The website has said this since the end of July after the release got pushed right?


Last I looked it said release in Q3?


----------



## ibanez1

Kony said:


> Last I looked it said release in Q3?


Hmm maybe it said something different on the main pacific page vs. just the string ensembles. I may have checked that website a bit too frequently...


----------



## Kony

ibanez1 said:


> Hmm maybe it said something different on the main pacific page vs. just the string ensembles. I may have checked that website a bit too frequently...


Actually, you're right - just checked my posts and realised I posted this in July


----------



## muziksculp

Beta Testing that never ends.  Is there a name for that ?


----------



## Kony

muziksculp said:


> Beta Testing that never ends.  Is there a name for that ?


Perfection?


----------



## muziksculp

Kony said:


> Perfection?


Sorry but that doesn't exist.


----------



## Kony

muziksculp said:


> Sorry but that doesn't exist.


Alright then, in search of perfection?

Edit: Fenders are perfect!


----------



## muziksculp

Kony said:


> Alright then, in search of perfection?


or waste of time.


----------



## Kony

muziksculp said:


> or waste of time.


Bit harsh.


----------



## Raphioli

muziksculp said:


> or waste of time.


Come on dude...really?


----------



## muziksculp

Raphioli said:


> Come on dude...really?


OK, I agree, a bit harsh. But it's not totally unrealistic. Sometimes trying to fix something messes up something else, and leads to more headaches, a can of worms, tweaking has limits. Perfection doesn't exist. Legato... Repeated notes, what's next to be fixed/improved ?


----------



## ka00

Things are getting a bit snippy in here, aren't they?

I propose the following fun game to the mods to break up the monotony while we wait: I call it "Autobahn."

How it works is the user who posts a "second" joke is automatically banned (hence the name Autobahn):

Rules are as follows:
Every "2nd" jokes merits an automatic 2-day user timeout.

A second "2nd" offence merits a 22-day user timeout and requires a public apology to get back on the forum.

A third "2nd" joke merits a 222-day ban unless the joke involves violas, AND in the case of Pacific Strings being released during the ban, all bans are immediately lifted, BUT it requires a proof of purchase of Pacific Strings.

And please, let the rules apply only after this post.


----------



## Blakus

ka00 said:


> And please, let the rules apply only after this post.


Woah, not a bad idea.
Actually, on second thoughts...


----------



## jon wayne

This all reminds me of the anticipation of the “New Coke” Most of you are too young to remember.


----------



## Kony

Blakus said:


> Woah, not a bad idea.
> Actually, on second thoughts...


Et tu, Blaké?


----------



## STMICHAELS

muziksculp said:


> Not only Ensembles, but it also offers the individual section articulations by style.
> 
> Here is a pic of all the violins (single patches).


How would you compare the sound character of Afflatus compared to Pacific? For example I heard some pacific and it indeed sounds very Romantic style but sure you can use it on many projects. I will go listen to Afflatus, however how would you sum up the sound character of Afflatus.


----------



## monochrome

do we know if pacific will have different legato speeds based on velocity or is it just whatever you get is what you get


----------



## jon wayne

STMICHAELS said:


> How would you compare the sound character of Afflatus compared to Pacific? For example I heard some pacific and it indeed sounds very Romantic style but sure you can use it on many projects. I will go listen to Afflatus, however how would you sum up the sound character of Afflatus.


I bought Afflatus at the very beginning. I think for overall sound, there is nothing out there that is as warm and charming. The polyphonic legato is awesome and the shorts bite. Even though I haven’t created a full template using the strings, I almost always layer the Scene D’amore patches with other strings. You can here the vibrato ease in and out of passages. I am also waiting to get Pacific for its unique flowing legato, but don’t think it will be my go to strings.


----------



## muziksculp

STMICHAELS said:


> however how would you sum up the sound character of Afflatus.


Afflatus comes in multiple flavors. That's imho. the main idea, or forte of the library. It is not your traditional string library that has a specific character, and that's it. You have a lot of variety, and can even mix them to get different characteristic string sounds. I think Pacific is more of a romantic style symphonic size strings library (that's missing 2nd Violins)  .

Not sure if this was helpful, but listen to the Afflatus demos on YT that will give you a decent idea of what it's capable of.

Oh.. yes, the polyphonic legatos of Afflatus Strings are very well implemented. Better than many other string libraries that claim to have polyphonic legatos. They are very playable, and don't feel odd, or bumpy.


----------



## Getsumen

monochrome said:


> do we know if pacific will have different legato speeds based on velocity or is it just whatever you get is what you get


Probably only one. Very few devs record multiple legato speeds (Off the top of my head I only know of OT although maybe VSL?). A few more have scripted legato speeds, but afaik PS has never done that sorta thing. Might be wrong


----------



## I like music

Getsumen said:


> Probably only one. Very few devs record multiple legato speeds (Off the top of my head I only know of OT although maybe VSL?). A few more have scripted legato speeds, but afaik PS has never done that sorta thing. Might be wrong


Also CSS, which are excellent at it!


----------



## gst98

I like music said:


> Also CSS, which are excellent at it!


CSS is only 1 legato speed too, plus then portamento (maybe that's what you meant). But to be fair to Pacific, CSS is 3 dynamics legato, 2 for portamento vs pacific which is 5 dyn but just on legato. And VSL is only 2 dynamics legato per vib layer I think? HWS still has the most recording time, then followed stuff like SF. 20 years later and we still haven't caught up to hans!


----------



## Casiquire

Getsumen said:


> Probably only one. Very few devs record multiple legato speeds (Off the top of my head I only know of OT although maybe VSL?). A few more have scripted legato speeds, but afaik PS has never done that sorta thing. Might be wrong


VSL does have things like that, like "performance trills" etc. But VSL and OT are the only ones I can think of also, especially the only ones who let you easily switch between them in one phrase pretty easily



I like music said:


> Also CSS, which are excellent at it!




The speeds with CSS are all the same samples, just edited to play faster. It's not quite the same.


----------



## I like music

Casiquire said:


> VSL does have things like that, like "performance trills" etc. But VSL and OT are the only ones I can think of also, especially the only ones who let you easily switch between them in one phrase pretty easily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The speeds with CSS are all the same samples, just edited to play faster. It's not quite the same.


What now? It is the same sample/transition but edited? God damn, he managed to make them sound good then! I had thought he had recorded different transition samples for each interval (legato, port etc)

Thanks


----------



## gst98

I like music said:


> What now? It is the same sample/transition but edited? God damn, he managed to make them sound good then! I had thought he had recorded different transition samples for each interval (legato, port etc)
> 
> Thanks


No, portamento is recorded, you can't fake that. But the varying speeds of legato are achieved by using less of the recorded transition. HWS strings did this, but to a lesser extent and are less predictable. 

Sonokinetic tried to get ambitious with this using other same samples to create slur, bc and port but the results are fairly underwhelming...

But EW and SF have recorded bow-change samples, which are essentially faster transitions, also OT and SF have done runs transitions. Adagio has a million different legatos in different speeds and styles, but they are not in tons of depth.


----------



## I like music

gst98 said:


> No, portamento is recorded, you can't fake that. But the varying speeds of legato are achieved by using less of the recorded transition. HWS strings did this, but to a lesser extent and are less predictable.
> 
> Sonokinetic tried to get ambitious with this using other same samples to create slur, bc and port but the results are fairly underwhelming...
> 
> But EW and SF have recorded bow-change samples, which are essentially faster transitions, also OT and SF have done runs transitions. Adagio has a million different legatos in different speeds and styles, but they are not in tons of depth.


Ah, I see. That makes sense now, thanks.

btw HS are still incredible strings in my opinion. Lots of stuff came after, but I feel that very few strings libraries actually did the symphonic thing as well as HS. They'll always be top notch (especially given how cheap they are)


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

I like music said:


> btw HS are still incredible strings in my opinion. Lots of stuff came after, but I feel that very few strings libraries actually did the symphonic thing as well as HS. They'll always be top notch (especially given how cheap they are)


+100
They're my go-to strings at the moment. The overwhelming number of patches (I'm still on the old PLAY-version) can be a bit difficult to work with at first, but the sound, sampling depth and the amount of expression you can put into them are just fantastic. I recently did a mockup of "Across the Stars" with them and was very pleased with the result.


----------



## I like music

Laurin Lenschow said:


> +100
> They're my go-to strings at the moment. The overwhelming number of patches (I'm still on the old PLAY-version) can be a bit difficult to work with at first, but the sound, sampling depth and the amount of expression you can put into them are just fantastic. I recently did a mockup of "Across the Stars" with them and was very pleased with the result.


If there was ever a library where they could tweak things and make usability improvements, this was it. Because even with all those issues, it SOUNDS incredible. Imagine if they reworked the strings entirely, using the same samples.
I'd buy them all over again.
(Especially if they added a proper purge function hah)
BTW have you published that mockup anywhere?


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

I like music said:


> BTW have you published that mockup anywhere?


Yeah, it's on my 2nd YouTube-channel (it really is, the pun made itself, it's not my fault, I swear! ). Don't want to derail the thread too much, I'll send you a PM with a direct link


----------



## icecoolpool

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Yeah, it's on my 2nd YouTube-channel (it really is, the pun made itself, it's not my fault, I swear! ). Don't want to derail the thread too much, I'll send you a PM with a direct link


Good job on the mockup, thanks for letting us know about. One day I'll get to grips with HOOPUS. There's obviously a lot of good stuff in there but it isn't as "Plug n' Play" friendly as some other libraries out there.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Of course! However, HOOPUS has not learned how to cope with smooth repetitions for sustain? in other words, they don't have re-bowing articulation?


----------



## Snarf

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Of course! However, HOOPUS has not learned how to cope with smooth repetitions for sustain? in other words, they don't have re-bowing articulation?


Hollywood Strings has sus/leg same-note repetitions if you use the sustain pedal. It's in the manual, but I don't remember whether these are recorded transitions or scripted ones.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Snarf said:


> Hollywood Strings has sus/leg same-note repetitions if you use the sustain pedal. It's in the manual, but I don't remember whether these are recorded transitions or scripted ones.


Exactly, there is such a thing, but it doesn't sound very good. Probably these are not recorded transitions, but scripted and without Round Robin.


----------



## Casiquire

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Exactly, there is such a thing, but it doesn't sound very good. Probably these are not recorded transitions, but scripted and without Round Robin.





Snarf said:


> Hollywood Strings has sus/leg same-note repetitions if you use the sustain pedal. It's in the manual, but I don't remember whether these are recorded transitions or scripted ones.


They were never recorded, so they will never be truly supported. Fortunately the common trick works well...just cut the modwheel (or use the volume CC if you're on the low end of the modwheel already, can't remember if it's CC7 for Hollywood Strings) for a split second.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Casiquire said:


> They were never recorded, so they will never be truly supported. Fortunately the common trick works well...just cut the modwheel (or use the volume CC if you're on the low end of the modwheel already, can't remember if it's CC7 for Hollywood Strings) for a split second.


This trick has never worked. Not satisfied with this, especially for polyphonic writing, I always returned to CSS.


----------



## I like music

Casiquire said:


> They were never recorded, so they will never be truly supported. Fortunately the common trick works well...just cut the modwheel (or use the volume CC if you're on the low end of the modwheel already, can't remember if it's CC7 for Hollywood Strings) for a split second.





Vladimir Bulaev said:


> This trick has never worked. Not satisfied with this, especially for polyphonic writing, I always returned to CSS.


Interesting. I always found it to work really well. I definitely think it works better than the official solution.
But yes, CSS has it down nice.


----------



## OHjorth

muziksculp said:


> So.. What's up with Pacific Strings ? Did they sink in the Pacific ?


Rebranding to “Passive Strings”
“They’re all in your mind”


----------



## Noeticus

(I just posted this elsewhere.)

On the planet Algon, a simple string sample library (with no second violins) costs as much as the entire gross national product of the United States of America from 1770 to the year 2022.

Monty Python: Prices on the Planet Algon


----------



## FrozenIcicle

OHjorth said:


> Rebranding to “Passive Strings”
> “They’re all in your mind”


that's some second sense shit


----------



## Rick S

FireGS said:


> Hmmmmm... Some of those releases sound "off".



_*No, it's not out yet*_.
Greetings everyone.
I know what it is. The start point for the release is a little too far from the end of the sample so the release begins playing too early after the end of the played note/s.
If the start point is moved a bit more to the right (more to the end) it should sound right.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Rick S said:


> _*No, it's not out yet*_.


I am gonna act surprised


----------



## dzilizzi

Bluemount Score said:


> I am gonna act surprised


I was going to second this, but I had second thoughts about making another second joke.


----------



## Marsen

Rick S said:


> _*No, it's not out yet*_.


Are second violins coming first?


----------



## Rick S

Marsen said:


> Are second violins coming first?


We're not doing this.
I've gotten pulled into childishness before,
there won't be a _second_...*wait*...!


----------



## muziksculp

Anything showing up on the horizon ?


----------



## Lord Daknight

muziksculp said:


> Anything showing up on the horizon ?


The Second coming of Violins on a cloud from the Pacific ocean, it will be glorious, but not for purists!


----------



## OHjorth

While my full wallet and I stare over the open waters of the pacific tracking the line of the horizon for any emerging string libraries, I finally opened the solo freebies and I must say I really like the tone of the expressive legato violin. Can’t wait to see what else is in store!

Made a short demo:


----------



## Ed Wine

I hope you guys aren't being duped. The release date keeps racing off into the future. You've been waiting a very long time.


----------



## HarmonKard

Ed Wine said:


> I hope you guys aren't being duped. The release date keeps racing off into the future. You've been waiting a very long time.


Ha ha - he said "duped", which shares the same first three letters as the word duplex, which means 2. 2, as in....


----------



## OHjorth

OHjorth said:


> While my full wallet and I stare over the open waters of the pacific tracking the line of the horizon for any emerging string libraries, I finally opened the solo freebies and I must say I really like the tone of the expressive legato violin. Can’t wait to see what else is in store!
> 
> Made a short demo:



Oh wow that post was bigger than expected. Will stick to SoundCloud-links in the future.


----------



## ibanez1

OHjorth said:


> While my full wallet and I stare over the open waters of the pacific tracking the line of the horizon for any emerging string libraries, I finally opened the solo freebies and I must say I really like the tone of the expressive legato violin. Can’t wait to see what else is in store!
> 
> Made a short demo:



Giving me a jeremy soule vibe with an awesome violin solo on top. A reminder to all (especially me) to stop focusing on new libraries to buy and get to composing. What an amazing freebie that i've been underutilizing.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I'm frustratingly being tempted by Afflatus... Please come out pacific!!!! lol


----------



## ibanez1

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I'm frustratingly being tempted by Afflatus... Please come out pacific!!!! lol


hard drive space is the only thing keeping me from this. That and I just bought OACE on the spitfire sale and that library is stunning.


----------



## muziksculp

View attachment TT.mp3


----------



## mgaewsj

muziksculp said:


> View attachment TT.mp3


but it lasted too many seconds


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

muziksculp said:


> View attachment TT.mp3


What sample library di you use? lol...


----------



## muziksculp

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> What sample library di you use? lol...


https://www.sonokinetic.net/products/instruments/thewatchmaker/


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

muziksculp said:


> https://www.sonokinetic.net/products/instruments/thewatchmaker/


Funny thing is i was joking(didn't really want to know) and then though it's probably Sonokinetics. lol... How many clock libraries are there right? Pure luck!


----------



## mussnig

muziksculp said:


> View attachment TT.mp3


It's compositions like this that make me realize that 2nd violins are essential! Thx for posting - it opened my eyes and I now lost all interest in Pacific.


----------



## Loerpert

Now let's imitate a clock sound on second violins. Hand muted bartok pizz?


----------



## Lord Daknight

2


----------



## WhiteNoiz

Lord Daknight said:


> 2


N, is that you? 😧


----------



## muziksculp

Dear Performance Samples,

It's October 2022, Please release Pacific Strings.

Thanks & Best Regards.


----------



## Saxer

_What a real man says
a real man will do.
No need to remember him
every few month._​


----------



## filipjonathan

doctoremmet said:


> Are you seriously thinking this shit helps?


Why, what's Jasper gonna do, NOT release it? He's already doing that.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

doctoremmet said:


> Are you seriously thinking this shit helps?


Chill 😂


----------



## Marsen

Fixed it for you



​


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> Are you seriously thinking this shit helps?


Maybe, it's always good to try something new.


----------



## muziksculp

They haven't released anything new on their social media channels, so my guess is ... The release is very close.


----------



## muziksculp

doctoremmet said:


> No


Yes


----------



## hayvel

_What a real man says
a real man will do.
No need to remember 
But ... IT'S ALMOST NOVEMBER!!_

😊​


----------



## FireGS

hayvel said:


> _What a real man says
> a real man will do.
> No need to remember
> But ... IT'S ALMOST NOVEMBER!!_
> 
> 😊​


NGL, it's almost 2023.


----------



## Noeticus

Perhaps... the irony is that the release is delayed because of work on the second violins.


----------



## Stevie

Noeticus said:


> Perhaps... the irony is that the release is delayed because of work on the second violins.


now THAT would be funny


----------



## muziksculp

If the the delay is because they decided to begin working on Second Violins, We are the only ones to be blamed on this forum.


----------



## Stevie




----------



## Lazeez

muziksculp said:


> https://www.sonokinetic.net/products/instruments/thewatchmaker/


Does it come with a 2nd watchmaker? Asking for a friend


----------



## Mike Greene

I’m going to lock this thread, because it’s getting annoying as it keeps getting bumped to the top of the feed, but there’s no real information.

Ping me when there’s actual news


----------



## Adam Takacs

From Jasper’s facebook page:

“I've just finished a large write-up about the PACIFIC STRINGS articulations and some of the recording process – it's in the Details section (there's also a Patch List): http://performancesamples.com/pacific-strings
Even with the vast majority of beta testing complete, there has been some final finesse work I've been wrapping up. I now have an internal release date range on schedule. I'm thinking of doing a big play-through of all the patches in the library as well. No talking, just a bunch of live playing while the camera rolls –– with time-codes.
Pacific Solo Strings pricing info is also on the PS home page now: www.performancesamples.com
Next FB post will likely be the release. I'm more impatient than ever to finally get this out!"


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Adam Takacs said:


> From Jasper’s facebook page:
> 
> “I've just finished a large write-up about the PACIFIC STRINGS articulations and some of the recording process – it's in the Details section (there's also a Patch List): http://performancesamples.com/pacific-strings
> Even with the vast majority of beta testing complete, there has been some final finesse work I've been wrapping up. I now have an internal release date range on schedule. I'm thinking of doing a big play-through of all the patches in the library as well. No talking, just a bunch of live playing while the camera rolls –– with time-codes.
> Pacific Solo Strings pricing info is also on the PS home page now: www.performancesamples.com
> Next FB post will likely be the release. I'm more impatient than ever to finally get this out!"


Yup, coming in with the ‘second’ post since the thread has been unlocked. 

Pacific strings should be out very soon it seems! Very excited!


----------



## Kony

Had a feeling it would be out soon - had to be out before BF anyway.


----------



## I like music

We go live to Muzikskulp who is currently waiting outside the studio with cash in hand.


----------



## Leo

Here is details about articulations:





Pacific – Strings – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## muziksculp

Adam Takacs said:


> I'm thinking of doing a big play-through of all the patches in the library as well. No talking, just a bunch of live playing while the camera rolls –– with time-codes.


That will be Awesome ! 

Looking forward to the play-through of the patches. 

Thanks


----------



## Larbguy

simple bread & butter articulations & patch list. hoping this really reflects depth over breadth


----------



## Raphioli

I've been reading the new info in the articulations section and I'm really impressed (and respect) at his enthusiasm regarding sampling.
Really looking forward to Pacific.


----------



## AndrewS

Loving that the articulation list is small. There's no need for massive menus of articulations anyway. Would much rather have a handful of masterfully recorded, mixed, and programmed samples over a ton of badly programmed samples any day.


----------



## Banquet

Does anyone know if there will be a Normale sustain (non legato)? I’m presuming yes but just checking.


----------



## HarmonKard

Banquet said:


> Does anyone know if there will be a Normale sustain (non legato)?








Pacific – Strings – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if both Pacific Symph. Strings, and Pacific Solo Strings will be released at the same time ? 

Very curious about the Pacific Solo Strings, and what articulations they offer.


----------



## Casiquire

Banquet said:


> Does anyone know if there will be a Normale sustain (non legato)? I’m presuming yes but just checking.


The description mentions a "legato mode" which, to me, indicates that the sustains also have a non-legato mode. As I've never played it myself, grain of salt, but signs point to yes


----------



## titokane

Banquet said:


> Does anyone know if there will be a Normale sustain (non legato)? I’m presuming yes but just checking.


The demo legato cello patch that has been released has a toggle to disable legato mode (and effectively become normale). Can't say for sure, but that's a good sign.


----------



## Futchibon

Banquet said:


> Does anyone know if there will be a Normale sustain (non legato)? I’m presuming yes but just checking.





Casiquire said:


> The description mentions a "legato mode" which, to me, indicates that the sustains also have a non-legato mode. As I've never played it myself, grain of salt, but signs point to yes





titokane said:


> The demo legato cello patch that has been released has a toggle to disable legato mode (and effectively become normale). Can't say for sure, but that's a good sign.


Vista also has a legato button to toggle between legato and sustains so I imagine Pacific will have this too.


----------



## monochrome

Futchibon said:


> Vista also has a legato button to toggle between legato and sustains so I imagine Pacific will have this too.








doesn't it say right there or is this supposed to be something different


----------



## Futchibon

monochrome said:


> doesn't it say right there or is this supposed to be something different


Beat me to it!


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Kony said:


> Had a feeling it would be out soon - had to be out before BF anyway.


Yep, I think that became the plan leading up to BF. We going to wipe out our BF budget on Pacific strings and have no money for OT discounts :(


----------



## Vlzmusic

FrozenIcicle said:


> Yep, I think that became the plan leading up to BF. We going to wipe out our BF budget on Pacific strings and have no money for OT discounts :(


Except that Pacific now eats half, or even third of your typical BF budget 🙄. AND if started on BF, Intro period will continue well into 2023....


----------



## jazzman7

I'm almost as excited to see my favorite thread back as I am about the news!  
BTW I loved reading Jasper's detailed write up. Excellent!


----------



## hayvel

279$ loyalty intro vs. 848$ regular for ensemble and solo strings ... not bad!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Did I read it right? No staccatos? Seems like you can use the marcatos but with limited RRs (and less attack control).


----------



## AndrewS

hayvel said:


> 279$ loyalty intro vs. 848$ regular for ensemble and solo strings ... not bad!


"Customers that purchase during the intro (whether loyalty or not) will be able to pick up Pacific Solo Strings for free when it’s released (ETA Q4 2022)"

Make sure to buy during the intro!


----------



## BHF

I'm on the fence of buying Kontakt just for those library, don't know if it's worth it or not ...


----------



## ibanez1

BHF said:


> I'm on the fence of buying Kontakt just for those library, don't know if it's worth it or not ...


There are many libraries you would gain access to by buying kontakt so the benefit goes well beyond this. I got the crossgrade pricing through owning Audio Imperia Nucleus. You could probably get it cheaper if you find a library you already want which would qualify you for the crossgrade.


----------



## Noeticus

Kontakt is a must have. And it is totally worth it.


----------



## muziksculp

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Did I read it right? No staccatos? Seems like you can use the marcatos but with limited RRs (and less attack control).


Yes, you read it right. But I think the Spicc. can still do a reasonably good Stac. IIRC , there was an audio demo that showed that the Spicc. is quite agile, and changes character depending on the length of the note played.

I would be eager to hear from beta testers about this detail again.

Thanks.


----------



## BHF

ibanez1 said:


> There are many libraries you would gain access to by buying kontakt so the benefit goes well beyond this. I got the crossgrade pricing through owning Audio Imperia Nucleus. You could probably get it cheaper if you find a library you already want which would qualify you for the crossgrade.


yes I own audio imperia chorus so I qualify for the crossgrade, do you know which kind of library is worth it or even free needing Kontakt full ?


----------



## jbuhler

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Did I read it right? No staccatos? Seems like you can use the marcatos but with limited RRs (and less attack control).


I had the same thought on seeing the listed articulations. And I don't find spiccatos generally a good substitute for staccatos. Marcatos might work but are likely too emphatic for many uses even if the number of RRs is sufficient. We'll see.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

muziksculp said:


> Yes, you read it right. But I think the Spicc. can still do a reasonably good Stac. IIRC , there was an audio demo that showed that the Spicc. is quite agile, and changes character depending on the length of the note played.
> 
> I would be eager to hear from beta testers about this detail again.
> 
> Thanks.


Spiccatos are bowed very differently than staccatos and the tones are quite different. If I recall, you were quite adamant that staccato specifically was a necessary articulation in another string library (instead of utilizing the other alternatives).



jbuhler said:


> I had the same thought on seeing the listed articulations. And I don't find spiccatos generally a good substitute for staccatos. Marcatos might work but are likely too emphatic for many uses even if the number of RRs is sufficient. We'll see.


Agree. No portamento or col legno either. Would've preferred a more complete articulation set than a harp, which seems like a very strange inclusion for a string section library.


----------



## Stevie

Portamento is baked in where it makes sense.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I'm having such a rough month. Pacific String releasing in the next few days would help ease some of the pain.


----------



## jbuhler

ALittleNightMusic said:


> No portamento or col legno either.


I don't mind not having col legno.



Stevie said:


> Portamento is baked in where it makes sense.


So no control over when it is triggered?


----------



## muziksculp

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Spiccatos are bowed very differently than staccatos and the tones are quite different. If I recall, you were quite adamant that staccato specifically was a necessary articulation in another string library (instead of utilizing the other alternatives).


Yes, that's very true. I know that. But with sample developers able to tweak things in the sampler, it's not so black and white. As I mentioned, I recall there was a demo of the shorts not sure if it was the Spicc. or Marc. that was trying to emulate a Stacc. playing. I really don't get why they skipped a real Stacc. in this library. OK, so no 2nd Violins, but why no Stacc. ?


----------



## Stevie

jbuhler said:


> I don't mind not having col legno.
> 
> 
> So no control over when it is triggered?


No, it's the same way as in Vista. And I personally find that perfect. Never looked back.


----------



## jbuhler

Stevie said:


> No, it's the same way as in Vista. And I personally find that perfect. Never looked back.


Yeah, I find Vista doesn't always work the way I want it to in this respect.


----------



## Casiquire

jbuhler said:


> Yeah, I find Vista doesn't always work the way I want it to in this respect.


To my ears, Pacific toned it down. I agree with you overall but if it's subtle and rare enough like in BSS I'm fine with it, even if Pacific doesn't give me alternate legato options to fall back on


----------



## ibanez1

BHF said:


> yes I own audio imperia chorus so I qualify for the crossgrade, do you know which kind of library is worth it or even free needing Kontakt full ?


There are many examples but just one off the top of my head is the Ethera series. On sale they are quite inexpensive and they represent an amazing value. They require you to have full kontakt. 

Another example is just this week, bunker samples has the harmonium + both bunker strings volumes for $100. Amazing libraries that all require full kontakt.

You will see this over and over again with many kontakt developers.

I would do some research over libraries you would want to purchase sometime in the future and look at how many need the full kontakt player. Don't be pressured to buy just because of my word . But I think you'll find it will pay off in the long run.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

From the Pacific Library details section. 

Quote: 

" *Marcatos*

Marcatos with phrase-flexible, short releases. Attacks and releases have up to 3 RR. I’ve seen interest for strings in the vein of Caspian or Angry Brass Pro over the years, and these essentially fill that role. The releases are shaped by note length, and playing lines like “da-da-daaaaa” is rather intuitive. The effect is that shorter notes can sound something like a staccato in context, but given the limited RR I don’t think it’s a strong enough point to truly market these as shorts patches. "


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> From the Pacific Library details section.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> " *Marcatos*
> 
> Marcatos with phrase-flexible, short releases. Attacks and releases have up to 3 RR. I’ve seen interest for strings in the vein of Caspian or Angry Brass Pro over the years, and these essentially fill that role. The releases are shaped by note length, and playing lines like “da-da-daaaaa” is rather intuitive. The effect is that shorter notes can sound something like a staccato in context, but given the limited RR I don’t think it’s a strong enough point to truly market these as shorts patches. "


Yes, that's what I was referencing in my original question. Seems like you can try to use marcatos in that they are MIDI note length dependent in the scripting, but still won't be a true staccato articulation (especially when it comes to RR and dynamics I believe).

I don't know if Jasper ever intended this to really be a "bread and butter" library. Seems more like, similar to his other libraries, a patchwork of performance-based experiments that he's developed and refined, that do - like every other library - certain things well and other things not so well.


----------



## muziksculp

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yes, that's what I was referencing in my original question. Seems like you can try to use marcatos in that they are MIDI note length dependent in the scripting, but still won't be a true staccato articulation (especially when it comes to RR and dynamics I believe).
> 
> I don't know if Jasper ever intended this to really be a "bread and butter" library. Seems more like, similar to his other libraries, a patchwork of performance-based experiments that he's developed and refined, that do - like every other library - certain things well and other things not so well.


I'm guessing we can try to find another strings library to play the Staccatos. I wonder what would be a good option that will blend well with Pacific ?


----------



## Loerpert

muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing we can try to find another strings library to play the Staccatos. I wonder what would be a good option that will blend well with Pacific ?


Maybe AR1? Pacific sounds pretty wett to my ears.


----------



## Flyo

Loerpert said:


> Maybe AR1? Pacific sounds pretty wett to my ears.


Abbey Road One? Don’t have staccato in separate sections. Only on ensambled Orchestra. This was another motive to get BBCPro to last year!


----------



## muziksculp

Loerpert said:


> Maybe AR1? Pacific sounds pretty wett to my ears.


Maybe. I'm sure we can get a stacc. of another library to fit in, we might have to add some processing on them. Once we have Pacific on our systems, it would be easier to figure things out.


----------



## Loerpert

Flyo said:


> Abbey Road One? Don’t have staccato in separate sections. Only on ensambled Orchestra. This was another motive to get BBCPro to last year!


Yep, hopefully modular orchestra won't take too long


----------



## Stevie

Fluid Shorts?


----------



## cg19

ibanez1 said:


> You could probably get it cheaper if you find a library you already want which would qualify you for the crossgrade.


There’s some free libraries, such as Embertone’s Arcane, that qualify for the Kontakt crossgrade.


----------



## muziksculp

Stevie said:


> Fluid Shorts?


I don't think so. These are Spicc. (Not Stacc.) and are a much smaller string sections compared to Pacific Strings Section sizes. The only common thing is they are recorded in the same hall.

Quote from Fluid Shorts Info. :

"*Fluid Shorts* is based around performance-sourced off-the-string spiccatos with a smaller string ensemble (8/6/4/3). The instruments are built to function well in moderate repetition, by way of performances that have been deconstructed from phrases into playable multi-samples."

_"* the same hall as Caspian, Fluid Shorts II, the Con Moto libraries, and Pacific"_


----------



## muziksculp

My wild guess for a suitable/compatible Staccato Strings library for Pacific Strings would be : 

Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings (Stacc). But the only way to know for sure is to test it against Pacific Strings when we have it.


----------



## davidson

So, whats the cheapest way to get in on this pacific party - con moto bass followed by the intro loyalty pricing?

This is probably a dumb question, but has there been _any_ word on release date? Someone mentioned earlier it'll be before BF - was that confirmed?


----------



## FireGS

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yes, that's what I was referencing in my original question. Seems like you can try to use marcatos in that they are MIDI note length dependent in the scripting, but still won't be a true staccato articulation (especially when it comes to RR and dynamics I believe).


I think you're missing the point, or at least what Jasper's trying to accomplish. Something Jasper's libraries have always seemed to do (and do well IMO) is help write/perform phrases that sound more like how players would play them for real. IMO, traditional staccato samples sound like detached samples within a phrase, and not a part of the phrase/performance. Using short marcatos will make staccatos in a phrase sound more like they should than keyswitching to a random staccato sample and back.

Game, set, match:


----------



## ism

muziksculp said:


> My wild guess for a suitable/compatible Staccato Strings library for Pacific Strings would be :
> 
> Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings (Stacc). But the only way to know for sure is to test it against Pacific Strings when we have it.


Interesting theory. Though my own sense is that SK is in its own sonic universe - quite a lovely one, but a different one from this. 

My moment (and this is also just a guess) is one something closely to an air library - SSS, maybe, or the Intimate strings. 

Though this isn't much more than a shot in the dark.


----------



## Stevie

You guys are truly overthinking the „which library works with library x“ thing.


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> I think you're missing the point, or at least what Jasper's trying to accomplish. Something Jasper's libraries have always seemed to do (and do well IMO) is help write/perform phrases that sound more like how players would play them for real. IMO, traditional staccato samples sound like detached samples within a phrase, and not a part of the phrase/performance. Using short marcatos will make staccatos in a phrase sound more like they should than keyswitching to a random staccato sample and back.
> 
> Game, set, match:



It's hard to hear the String Stacc. in this example, when the brass is blasting their horns.


----------



## FireGS

muziksculp said:


> It's hard to hear the String Stacc. in this example, when the brass is blasting their horns.


Staccato: Detached, short notes with accents.

Any short note in that example is/would be called/or marked as staccato.


----------



## Snarf

FireGS said:


> Something Jasper's libraries have always seemed to do (and do well IMO) is help write/perform phrases that sound more like how players would play them for real. IMO, traditional staccato samples sound like detached samples within a phrase, and not a part of the phrase/performance. Using short marcatos will make staccatos in a phrase sound more like they should than keyswitching to a random staccato sample and back.


Exactly this. Keyswitching between different types of shorts often breaks the flow of a phrase because different types of shorts have mismatched energies. Adaptive marcatos are much better suited for coherent lines. If they are anything like Caspian/ABP, then they can be shortened to stacc (even spicc) territory, just not for extended, HZ-style, continuous staccato passages.


----------



## ism

Stevie said:


> You guys are truly overthinking the „which library works with library x“ thing.


Why’s that?


----------



## BHF

davidson said:


> So, whats the cheapest way to get in on this pacific party - con moto bass followed by the intro loyalty pricing?
> 
> This is probably a dumb question, but has there been _any_ word on release date? Someone mentioned earlier it'll be before BF - was that confirmed?


it seems to be the cheapest way, since it is the cheaper product in the list eligible for loyalty intro pricing


----------



## Saxer

We know from other developers that staccs and spiccs are going to be more confusable the bigger the string section is. The bigger the sections the more staccs and spiccs sound very similar. You can't hear on or off the bow. It's just "shorts".


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> Staccato: Detached, short notes with accents.
> 
> Any short note in that example is/would be called/or marked as staccato.


Yes, I know that, but the brass was overshadowing the strings, so I wasn't able to hear them in isolation.


----------



## HarmonKard

Saxer said:


> We know from other developers that staccs and spiccs are going to be more confusable the bigger the string section is. The bigger the sections the more staccs and spiccs sound very similar. You can't hear on or off the bow. It's just "shorts".


CStrings stac vs spic

View attachment cs.mp3


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

FireGS said:


> I think you're missing the point, or at least what Jasper's trying to accomplish. Something Jasper's libraries have always seemed to do (and do well IMO) is help write/perform phrases that sound more like how players would play them for real. IMO, traditional staccato samples sound like detached samples within a phrase, and not a part of the phrase/performance. Using short marcatos will make staccatos in a phrase sound more like they should than keyswitching to a random staccato sample and back.
> 
> Game, set, match:



Not a particularly clear example of highlighting how his approach supposedly sounds better than other libraries that have a dedicated staccato articulation recorded IMO. I believe CSS and MSS both include variable length marcatos like Pacific but also include separately recorded shorts (of multiple lengths). Maybe once the library is out somebody will do a comparison. I understand that having timing flexibility built into a short articulation is better than a static length short (which cannot adapt as well to different tempos), but other libraries are offering both due to the tonal variations - and possibly using the same scripting technique across all the shorts to make them variable length (or tempo synced).


----------



## R.G.

FireGS said:


> Staccato: Detached, short notes with accents.
> 
> Any short note in that example is/would be called/or marked as staccato.


Those would have to be marked marc-stacc at least, perhaps even molto marc-stacc.


----------



## muziksculp

HarmonKard said:


> CStrings stac vs spic
> 
> View attachment cs.mp3


That's how they should differ sonically. Is this Cinematic Strings, or CineStrings ?


----------



## Lord Daknight

Oh, you want staccs do ya??? You're all starting to sound like PURISTS to me!!! You know what Jasper does to Purists like you!?


----------



## HarmonKard

Lord Daknight said:


> You know what Jasper does to Purists like you!?


----------



## HarmonKard

muziksculp said:


> That's how they should differ sonically. Is this Cinematic Strings, or CineStrings ?


CineStrings


----------



## R.G.

Developers are weird with the bowings and terminology; don't know why. Spiccato (and all its subtypes) is a bowing, while staccato is an articulation, not a bowing, and it only has meaning relative to the rhythmic duration, and whether it's merely shortened or also very lightly marked depends on the context.

The note length and breadth for spiccatos can vary _some_, but for on-the-string short notes, the onset, note length, and abruptness of the note-end can vary quite a bit. It'd take lots of sampling to have even a somewhat minimally representative offering. And I don't know if any libraries offer martelé either (the proper kind, not merely labeled as such), which is good demarcated "staccato" option. I've never come across it anyway.


----------



## muziksculp

The major difference between Spicc. and Stacc. is Spicc. is a boucing (Off the bow) bowing action, Stacc. is on the bow, the bow doesn't leave the bow, or bounce. 

The length of the Stacc. depends on the tempo, and note value to be played, speed, pressure of bowing, ..etc. The bouncing action of the Spicc. has a very different sound compared to the on-the-bow Stacc.


----------



## muziksculp

HarmonKard said:


> CineStrings


Thanks. Still waiting for CineSamples to release the ver 2.0 update.


----------



## muziksculp

Another Stacc. option for Pacific Strings might be the Cinematic Strings 2 Staccatos.


----------



## muziksculp

I have a feeling that it will be released this coming Monday, Oct. 24th. I might be hallucinating about it. but that's a good feeling


----------



## R.G.

muziksculp said:


> The major difference between Spicc. and Stacc. is Spicc. is a boucing (Off the bow) bowing action, Stacc. is on the bow, the bow doesn't leave the bow, or bounce.
> 
> The length of the Stacc. depends on the tempo, and note value to be played, speed, pressure of bowing, ..etc. The bouncing action of the Spicc. has a very different sound compared to the on-the-bow Stacc.


Staccato is not a bowing; it's an articulation. In real world performance, notes marked staccato or intended to be played as such can be played on-the-string _or_ off-the-string. All types of spiccato are _also_ staccato, as is the on-the-string martelé, group staccato, linked bows, and any other short-ish articulation played on or off.


----------



## muziksculp

R.G. said:


> Staccato is not a bowing; it's an articulation. In real world performance, notes marked staccato or intended to be played as such can be played on-the-string _or_ off-the-string. All types of spiccato are _also_ staccato, as is the on-the-string martelé, group staccato, linked bows, and any other short-ish articulation played on or off.


----------



## Henning

Terminology of bowing is very varied. There's no right or wrong. Some people say martelè or marcato, some fast spiccs or measured tremolo, etc, whatever. In the end mutual understanding is the key and every string player understands the sound the customer is going for when asking for spicc or stacc. As we do here.


----------



## muziksculp

Henning said:


> Terminology of bowing is very varied. There's no right or wrong. Some people say martelè or marcato, some fast spiccs or measured tremolo, etc, whatever. In the end mutual understanding is the key and every string player understands the sound the customer is going for when asking for spicc or stacc. As we do here.


When you are learning to play a String Instrument, i.e. a Violin, some basic guidelines, and terminologies are important to define, and it's up to the teacher to make sure the student understands what a marking on the score means, and how to play it, some amount of flexibility, is open to interpretation depending on various parameters, i.e. tempo, style of the piece, ..etc.


----------



## mussnig

muziksculp said:


> My wild guess for a suitable/compatible Staccato Strings library for Pacific Strings would be :
> 
> Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings (Stacc). But the only way to know for sure is to test it against Pacific Strings when we have it.


You could test it with the Pacific freebie patches.


----------



## muziksculp

mussnig said:


> You could test it with the Pacific freebie patches.


The Short Freebies are Spicc. not Stacc. so, no point in testing them.


----------



## Henning

muziksculp said:


> When you are learning to play a String Instrument, i.e. a Violin, some basic guidelines, and terminologies are important to define, and it's up to the teacher to make sure the student understands what a marking on the score means, and how to play it, some amount of flexibility, is open to interpretation depending on various parameters, i.e. tempo, style of the piece, ..etc.


Absolutely.


----------



## muziksculp

Henning said:


> Absolutely.


I took private Violin lessons for three years, then kept on practicing by myself, and studying it further, I still practice it when I have time, besides other instruments.. flute, other woodwinds, ..etc.


----------



## R.G.

muziksculp said:


>



I don't know what you're trying to say. Can you articulate it? I don't know what's in the video, and I don't want to spend 7 minutes watching it.


----------



## Henning

muziksculp said:


> I took private Violin lessons for three years, then kept on practicing by myself, and studying it further, I still practice it when I have time, besides other instruments.. flute, other woodwinds, ..etc.


That's the way to go. Samples alone don't make you happy. 🙂


----------



## muziksculp

R.G. said:


> I don't know what you're trying to say. Can you articulate it? I don't know what's in the video, and I don't want to spend 7 minutes watching it.


Watch it when you have 7 min.


----------



## mussnig

muziksculp said:


> The Short Freebies are Spicc. not Stacc. so, no point in testing them.


No, what I meant is that you can take the freebie patch to test which other library would be a good match.


----------



## R.G.

Henning said:


> Terminology of bowing is very varied. There's no right or wrong. Some people say martelè or marcato, some fast spiccs or measured tremolo, etc, whatever. In the end mutual understanding is the key and every string player understands the sound the customer is going for when asking for spicc or stacc. As we do here.


Some libraries do that, but not string players, though string players in casual speech _do_ sometimes use looser, more descriptive terms in some cases. For example, *détaché lance* is sometimes called *gapped détaché*, informally.

Pertaining to one of your examples, *marcato* is decidedly an articulation, not a bowing, and it can be applied to a very short note or to a very long one (usually different notations for one or the other). About the only bowing that uses marcato in the term is *marcato détaché*, which is used interchangeably with *accented détaché*. And some string players also use, informally, *marcato-spiccato* interchangeably with *heavy spiccato* or *chopped spiccato*, or just *chopped*, more often.

Pertaining to your other examples, *tremolos* are not played spiccato; they're played on the string, but if you want an off-the-string unmeasured tremolo-ish effect, you can use a *ricochet tremolo* or *sautillé*, unless you need it good and loud.

And you're right that there are some points of disagreement between some players according to their "school of playing", plus which different people prefer one language for a term over another for the same bowing or effect, but there are areas of concrete agreement, too.

For example, *staccato* is not a bowing; it's a generic articulation term for notes on the short side that have at least a _slight_ separation, but more often up to about 50% off the written rhythm. The only time staccato is used as part of a bowing term is for special techniques such as *group staccato* and *flying staccato*, which are both on-the-string, and then there is *staccato volante*, which is an off-the-string staccato. There are also linked or hooked bowings (same thing), which produce staccato on the string.

Whereas *Martelé*, for example, is emphatically a bowing. It's used for short notes or staccato notes that require an emphatic start and an abrupt stop. It can be played light, medium, heavy, etc. Absent the pressure involved in a martelé bowing, and you have a short-ish note that might be a staccato in context, or just short. Pretty much just a straightforward, *unaccented détaché* bowing played as a short isolated note or a staccato note.

As for *spiccato*, it's simply a way of achieving a different effect for short-ish notes or staccato notes. The repertoire has countless examples of notes that are *marked staccato and played spiccato*. 

There is *conscious spiccato*, a kind of controlled rebound which has a fairly wide dynamic range, and *spontaneous spiccato*, which is harder to control and happens automatically under a certain cocktail of playing condtions, and has a narrower dynamic range (*sautillé*, *ricochet*, *staccato volante*). Pretty much all spiccatos are marked as staccato in some way, but only now and then does a composer use the word to clarify his intentions. Rimsky-Korsakov does so in the Spanish caprice, as does Bruckner in his 9th(II), and so on.


----------



## Stevie

ism said:


> Why’s that?


Because this is all a matter of depth/reverb and *maybe* a little EQ to match libraries.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

This thread is gonna get locked again 😂


----------



## R.G.

muziksculp said:


> Watch it when you have 7 min.


I'm supposed to spend 7 minutes watching a video I don't need to watch because you're incapable of spending half that time making your point?

Since you only have three years' worth of beginner violin lessons, it'll be better if you just spend 7 minutes reading my previous post, which covers a lot more ground on the subject and in much more detail than you're going to find in any Youtube video. You're the one with the confusion, so it's up to you to remedy it. Get started.


----------



## FireGS

Dunno why this became a spicc vs stacc argument... its not. Its about the utility of using short marcs as mid-phrase staccatos. It's not about doing... like.. ostinatos with a marcato patch


----------



## Lord Daknight

Henning said:


> That's the way to go. Samples alone don't make you happy. 🙂


Samples are all I need! Real instruments are cheating!!!!


----------



## Marsen

So you changed the topic from 2. Violins to staccato?
How dare you! 

/thread closed


----------



## ism

Stevie said:


> Because this is all a matter of depth/reverb and *maybe* a little EQ to match libraries.


I'm sure that's very often true for a range of aesthetics. But I the sound of Pacific is, imo, so central to the musicality that you're going to want to be very careful what you blend with it, or your risk breaking the musicality in favour of a more generic mix. Which can also be very nice of course, just not the same as that very singular sound of Pacific. 

I wonder how Tundra shorts would work with this? (In so far as Tundra has shorts).


----------



## Snarf

HarmonKard said:


> CStrings stac vs spic
> 
> View attachment cs.mp3



I think this demonstrates my previous point about traditional approaches to articulations fairly well. 



muziksculp said:


> That's how they should differ sonically. Is this Cinematic Strings, or CineStrings ?



Should they? See my previous post: you would have a hard time constructing coherent phrases where these mismatched energies don't stick out like a sore thumb. 

PS-style adaptive marcato patches can do both lengths _while_ feeling cohesive. For extended ostinato passages you would switch over to actual spicc samples.


----------



## Stevie

ism said:


> I'm sure that's very often true for a range of aesthetics. But I the sound of Pacific is, imo, so central to the musicality that you're going to want to be very careful what you blend with it, or your risk breaking the musicality in favour of a more generic mix. Which can also be very nice of course, just not the same as that very singular sound of Pacific.
> 
> I wonder how Tundra shorts would work with this? (In so far as Tundra has shorts).


Goodness, first world problems. How about waiting for it and then trying out the alternatives?
Actually hoping for the thread being closed again, soon.


----------



## ism

Stevie said:


> Goodness, first world problems.


Goodness, people who care about mixes and rooms and sound on vi-c! 

Seriously though, the sheer sonority of Pacific is the single most interesting thing about it. It singular enough to wholly define the musicality of the entire piece. Why would I even consider another string library? Because there's a topos here, a visceral musicality that's wholly different from any other one that I have. 

And there's a lot going on here, in terms of Jasper's technique to capture the nuances of this very particular style of performance, the sheer timbral integrity from all the dyanmic layers, the room sound with all the intricacies of spatiality captured in this particular hall with this particular recording engineering technique. 

There are sylistic mixes that can blur things together, fake room tone, fake spatial information and so on ... and these can give very nice, but very stylistic results. The same as there are midi techniques an scripting techniques that can fake certain aspects of performance - but not other. And for things like the sonority of spatiality, I simply don't believe that any amount to DSP can simulate the immense complexity of the spatial information in a really beautiful, and beautifully recorded room.

I mean, I wish it could - it would save a ton of money on sample libraries, and I could have just stuck VSL. But the kind of sound I love isn't the stylized mix, but the intimate spatiality of a room. 


Anyway, talking about these things is exactly what I think makes vi-c interesting - what of aspects of sound and performance can be simulated with technology, and what simply needs to be recorded, captured with real performers by real microphones in real spaces by real engineers. 

I'm not planning to buy Pacific right away. But what's interesting about this thread is the discussion about what's new here. 

And there really is something fabulous and new here. Not just in the specific section sizes in the specific hall, but also the specific performance techniques, and the particular impact of timbral integrity of such unprecedented numbers of dynamic layers. 

And probably a lot of other things that all add up to. 

Anway. Talking about sample libraries can be fun. That's my only point really


----------



## Stevie

ism said:


> Anway. Talking about sample libraries can be fun. That's my only point really


Yeah and maybe I just care more about actually making music and getting things done. Crazy, I know.


----------



## chrisav

Stevie said:


> Yeah and maybe I just care more about actually making music and getting things done. Crazy, I know.


Then why hang around in this thread?


----------



## mgaewsj

Marsen said:


> So you changed the topic from 2. Violins to staccato?
> How dare you!
> 
> /thread closed


I am only interested in 2nd violins staccato


----------



## ism

Stevie said:


> Yeah and maybe I just care more about actually making music and getting things done. Crazy, I know.



Yep. 

But against this, the music I write, and aspire to write, is really sensitive to these dimension of sonority and musicality and performance. And without vi-c as a space to really get stuck into discussing and thinking about these dimensions of sound and sample of musicality I just can't image how I'd have ever got to where I'm at. 

So you could say the same to any musician concerned about the details of the craft and not just "getting things done". 

Of course, I completely respect composers why just don't care about these details and just get on with writing music. 

But I also respect Wagner(*) for just not being content that existing Tuba Technology could convey what he needed it to convey. Or Mozart for feeling that there was somehow a clarinet-shaped hole in conventional orchestration, or The Edge for all that time he spent tinkering with amps and pedals and delay boxes, and Christian and Paul for feeling that the VSL just wasn't quite capturing a certain nuance of sonority that they were partial to, and Jasper for feeling that there's just something somehow just not quite right in the way that conventional legato scripting misses certain nuances of the connectedness of real performance. 

And moreover, very often, a genuine, critical, engaged attention to craft and technical detail and this kind of general nuance in sample libraries, has very real consequences for the actual getting things done of writing real music. 


And Pacific, in it's singular dimensions, suggests opening of new spaces. So that, I think is worth thinking about. 

(*) This is, of course, just about the only way I respect about Wagner though, for as a person he was obviously an anti-semetic shmuck.


----------



## Marsen

mgaewsj said:


> I am only interested in 2nd violins staccato


Aah…
please proceed!

/thread reopened


----------



## Henning

R.G. said:


> Some libraries do that, but not string players, though string players in casual speech _do_ sometimes use looser, more descriptive terms in some cases. For example, *détaché lance* is sometimes called *gapped détaché*, informally.
> 
> Pertaining to one of your examples, *marcato* is decidedly an articulation, not a bowing, and it can be applied to a very short note or to a very long one (usually different notations for one or the other). About the only bowing that uses marcato in the term is *marcato détaché*, which is used interchangeably with *accented détaché*. And some string players also use, informally, *marcato-spiccato* interchangeably with *heavy spiccato* or *chopped spiccato*, or just *chopped*, more often.
> 
> Pertaining to your other examples, *tremolos* are not played spiccato; they're played on the string, but if you want an off-the-string unmeasured tremolo-ish effect, you can use a *ricochet tremolo* or *sautillé*, unless you need it good and loud.
> 
> And you're right that there are some points of disagreement between some players according to their "school of playing", plus which different people prefer one language for a term over another for the same bowing or effect, but there are areas of concrete agreement, too.
> 
> For example, *staccato* is not a bowing; it's a generic articulation term for notes on the short side that have at least a _slight_ separation, but more often up to about 50% off the written rhythm. The only time staccato is used as part of a bowing term is for special techniques such as *group staccato* and *flying staccato*, which are both on-the-string, and then there is *staccato volante*, which is an off-the-string staccato. There are also linked or hooked bowings (same thing), which produce staccato on the string.
> 
> Whereas *Martelé*, for example, is emphatically a bowing. It's used for short notes or staccato notes that require an emphatic start and an abrupt stop. It can be played light, medium, heavy, etc. Absent the pressure involved in a martelé bowing, and you have a short-ish note that might be a staccato in context, or just short. Pretty much just a straightforward, *unaccented détaché* bowing played as a short isolated note or a staccato note.
> 
> As for *spiccato*, it's simply a way of achieving a different effect for short-ish notes or staccato notes. The repertoire has countless examples of notes that are *marked staccato and played spiccato*.
> 
> There is *conscious spiccato*, a kind of controlled rebound which has a fairly wide dynamic range, and *spontaneous spiccato*, which is harder to control and happens automatically under a certain cocktail of playing condtions, and has a narrower dynamic range (*sautillé*, *ricochet*, *staccato volante*). Pretty much all spiccatos are marked as staccato in some way, but only now and then does a composer use the word to clarify his intentions. Rimsky-Korsakov does so in the Spanish caprice, as does Bruckner in his 9th(II), and so on.


Mate, I'm a player myself. And I have seen my share of orchestra recording sessions where I got my music played. No need to throw about an excursion into fiddle terminology. As I said before the people in this forum understand what's being meant when we discuss staccs and spiccs. Not necessary to make this more complicated, eh?


----------



## Henning

Lord Daknight said:


> Samples are all I need! Real instruments are cheating!!!!


You'll come over to the dark side at some point 😂


----------



## Henning

By the way I had the marcs under my fingers recently and they sound really good and are quite flexible even on 3 RR. Just sayin...


----------



## HarmonKard

Snarf said:


> Should they?


Well, yes, they are bowed differently. But I think that this is more pronounced in sampling than in real life.


----------



## Stevie

chrisav said:


> Then why hang around in this thread?


To actually get notified when there are new details about Pacific.


----------



## HarmonKard

Snarf said:


> you would have a hard time constructing coherent phrases where these mismatched energies don't stick out like a sore thumb.


Disagree. This took a matter of minutes:

View attachment cs1.mp3


Perfect? Nope. And you can sure tell the difference, but I think that works.


----------



## FireGS

HarmonKard said:


> Disagree. This took a matter of minutes:
> 
> View attachment cs1.mp3
> 
> 
> Perfect? Nope. And you can sure tell the difference, but I think that works.


NGL, they sound really out of place and sounds like it took a matter of minutes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Sophus

muziksculp said:


> Looking forward to get my Loyalty Discount Code email from Performance Samples.
> 
> Hopefully any day now.


In the past there was no loyalty discount code for PS libraries. I paid the reduced price and it went through in "good faith". So, I don't think you need to wait for a coupon code.


----------



## Raphioli

Sophus said:


> In the past there was no loyalty discount code for PS libraries. I paid the reduced price and it went through in "good faith". So, I don't think you need to wait for a coupon code.


They do check though. Below is a direct quote from the Pacific page.


> _Qualification for loyalty pricing subject to verification by Performance Samples LLC, in each instance._



BTW, not sure if it would add to the discussion, but the same page lists "staccatos" for the solo violin and solo cello. It does say "not yet finalized" though.


> Instruments: solo violin & solo cello
> Content (not yet finalized): legato, motion tremolos, spiccatos, staccatos, pizzicatos, marcatos, and harmonics


----------



## Baronvonheadless

Henning said:


> By the way I had the marcs under my fingers recently and they sound really good and are quite flexible even on 3 RR. Just sayin...


Do you own css? I’m curious of the pacific marcatos vs the new css. (Not for runs obviously, different function. But just the performance/attack/juiciness comparison under the fingers for Beethovens 5th type stuff).


----------



## Henning

Baronvonheadless said:


> Do you own css? I’m curious of the pacific marcatos vs the new css. (Not for runs obviously, different function. But just the performance/attack/juiciness comparison under the fingers for Beethovens 5th type stuff).


Speaking for myself and the way I do things these marcatos will get in handy. But this is just me. I'd say wait till Pacific is out and judge for yourself


----------



## Getsumen

Baronvonheadless said:


> Do you own css? I’m curious of the pacific marcatos vs the new css. (Not for runs obviously, different function. But just the performance/attack/juiciness comparison under the fingers for Beethovens 5th type stuff).


Obviously haven't touched the Pacific marcatos yet but I've been VERY pleased with how Jasper has handled the "playable" marcato-type artics in things such as Caspian or Oceania. To me, they flow much better and sound more natural than the CSS overlay-type marcatos. That isn't to say the CSS ones are poor by any means, CSS Marcatos have garnered a great reputation for a good reason. The PS ones are just next level though (Esp excited since these have round robins unlike the Caspian)


----------



## JacksonTree

Since we (might) be down to the wire, I’m trying to figure out if I should get the Con Moto Basses or the violas… I feel like I would get more usage out of the violas, but I really wouldn’t be buying them at the moment if it wasn’t for the loyalty discount… anyone with the Con Moto libraries with an opinion on their relative value?


----------



## Jerner

I have con moto cello. It's situational but good. I'd rather spend 100 on something actually useful than 80 on something that's just going to collect dust.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

JacksonTree said:


> Since we (might) be down to the wire, I’m trying to figure out if I should get the Con Moto Basses or the violas… I feel like I would get more usage out of the violas, but I really wouldn’t be buying them at the moment if it wasn’t for the loyalty discount… anyone with the Con Moto libraries with an opinion on their relative value?


Did you consider getting a violin section for divisi instead?


----------



## HarmonKard

FireGS said:


> NGL, they sound really out of place and sounds like it took a matter of minutes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Ok, well, if you think you can do better, let's hear it!


----------



## Lord Daknight

JacksonTree said:


> Since we (might) be down to the wire, I’m trying to figure out if I should get the Con Moto Basses or the violas… I feel like I would get more usage out of the violas, but I really wouldn’t be buying them at the moment if it wasn’t for the loyalty discount… anyone with the Con Moto libraries with an opinion on their relative value?


Con Moto basses are good! I use contrabasses a lot more than others in isolation and solos though so that's my opinion curated for my weird style


----------



## Saxer

I use Con Moto violins as second violins for Vista...


----------



## soulofsound

Saxer said:


> I use Con Moto violins as second violins for Vista...


I combine Vista and Con Moto, too.


----------



## muziksculp

I wish they would update this info. on the Pacific Strings Product Page. Since the library is all done in terms of sample content. 


NCW-compressed, ~XX.XX GB total (TBA)


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

so is the rumour that this thing will be out by black friday?


----------



## Trash Panda

NeonMediaKJT said:


> so is the rumour that this thing will be out by black friday?


I heard Jasper and Aaron Venture are playing a game of chicken to see who blinks first and releases their upcoming strings library.


----------



## Denkii

Trash Panda said:


> I heard Jasper and Aaron Venture are playing a game of chicken to see who blinks first and releases their upcoming strings library.


I don't like this joke.
They strike me both as people who can be stubborn as hell...


----------



## X-Bassist

Denkii said:


> I don't like this joke.
> They strike me both as people who can be stubborn as hell...


I think it’s not stubborness, but perfectionism. I understand though, once they release it they have to hear all the flack, so they better love it themselves. That can be hard for a developer whose been through the ringer several times and wants a great release.


----------



## Sophus

muziksculp said:


> I wish they would update this info. on the Pacific Strings Product Page. Since the library is all done in terms of sample content.
> 
> 
> NCW-compressed, ~XX.XX GB total (TBA)


Wasn't here a post of a beta tester that talked about something around 40 GB? Would be really hard to find now because of all the stupid joke and complaining posts.


----------



## gst98

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if they are still tweaking the legatos


The last thing he posted about was the scripts not playing nicely with fl studio


----------



## Lord Daknight

gst98 said:


> The last thing he posted about was the scripts not playing nicely with fl studio


Oh, as an FL user I hope that won't take too long to fix. Glad they care about us though ❤️


----------



## Kony

Sophus said:


> Wasn't here a post of a beta tester that talked about something around 40 GB? Would be really hard to find now because of all the stupid joke and complaining posts.


This might be the post you're referring to - posted 50 pages ago in July. Looks like it will be in the 40Gb ballpark.






Performance Samples - Pacific - Symphonic Strings


Please tell Jasper to take his time and send him my best wishes. Make that 'our best wishes'! :)




vi-control.net





Edit: the link is correct but is showing incorrect text in this post for some reason.


----------



## hayvel

Jasper might have realized people DESPERATELY need proper staccatos. So.... off to the recording studio, again!


----------



## hayvel

muziksculp said:


> Really ? Now he decided to include proper Staccatos ?
> 
> Is this confirmed by him ? or he is just thinking about it ?


No, sorry, thats why I said 'might'. I was just making a little fun of the purists here. On the one hand, people want this to be released already, and on the other hand, there is always a desire for more. Not easy to strike a balance here for Jasper.

I mean, I get that everyone has different needs and hopes for this release, and it can be disappointing to find an unacceptable gap for the own workflow. However, from my experience with Performance Samples, the instruments can be played in a very dynamic way. They adapt to the playing. So I am pretty confident there is a decent staccato hidden in there.


----------



## TomaeusD

soulofsound said:


> I agree in principle, but in reality even without the silliness the information in a truly popular thread becomes totally cluttered anyway imo as it reaches a 100, 200 or 300 pages. Remember the 50 or so pages about legato when MSS was released, when the legato was in fact decent and totally fixed with the update. But you can't say anything about groupthink like that, cause it's supposedly on point (which it isn't.)
> To solve for this kind of clutter, there should be a better system in place to guide to the right info.


Some forums use Threadmarks which allow the OP or moderator to mark a particular post which you can jump to from the thread title or first post. That would be super useful here.


----------



## AMBi

Casiquire said:


> If there's no new information out and all that's happening is a hundred posts that include the word "second" and a bunch of laugh emojis, lock it up imo. People looking for actual information can't find it anymore, so the thread does a disservice.


Yeah it’s not even about the size of the thread that’s the issue as some are saying.

The Aaron Venture Thread for example is much bigger than this one but has people constantly posting demos, giving each other advice, and the developer chimes in with updates, so it’s size is more warranted.


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## artinro

There are plenty of threads on this forum which grew massive and somewhat bloated with jokes/filler/chatter etc... over the years, and I've been here for a long time. As far as I'm aware, none were locked for that reason. I don't think this one should be locked again simply because a few posters keep bumping it with filler. As @SimonCharlesHanna said above, not a good precedent imo....


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## Mike Greene

artinro said:


> I don't think this one should be locked again simply because a few posters keep bumping it with filler.


I don't like locking threads, either, but I deleted 45 posts of "filler" just now, and I suspect the majority of members would be glad for those deletions.

It's important to understand that the forum is about more than just this topic, and that most people rely on the Latest Posts feed when they visit. When this thread keeps getting bumped and bumped and bumped for the same nonsense getting posted by the same people over and over again, it's annoying.

Can people simply pass it by as they scan the Latest Posts listings? Of course they can. But note that it takes 5 pages of Latest Posts just to see what's new in the last 24 hours. That's too much IMO. It makes the forum unwieldy, so I'm doing what I can (involving way more than just this thread) to curb that.

No doubt there are people who wish to argue that, but please take that debate to this thread.


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## Getsumen




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## Sovereign

Getsumen said:


>


Jasper is on dial-up? 2023 it is.


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## dyvoid

Is there any clarity on what the solo strings package will actually contain? It seems to me some people are assuming this is a whole first chairs package, but I don't think Jasper has ever mentioned anything beyond a solo cello and violin. Is that correct, or did I miss anything?


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## Peter Satera

Lord Daknight said:


> Oh, as an FL user I hope that won't take too long to fix. Glad they care about us though ❤️


It is. I have been using/testing the full spicatto patch, but it occasionally can crash / instantly close the app. It can make the buy (I own vista) a tough decision. 
-----
On another note, the spicatto are not very EQ friendly (I know, I know..."hate noise...run"). I love the full sound, but trying to brighten them is not something which is likely optional. I would suggest anything you tend to do in your workflow you test with what's been released.

But kudos to Jasper, if it weren't for his choice to prerelease these demo patches it becomes a blind buy. I find the option to test is an amazing thing to allow. It's transparent and circumvents frustrations.


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## CG Smith

dyvoid said:


> Is there any clarity on what the solo strings package will actually contain? It seems to me some people are assuming this is a whole first chairs package, but I don't think Jasper has ever mentioned anything beyond a solo cello and violin. Is that correct, or did I miss anything?


From the general Pacific orchestra page on the Performance Samples site:


> Pacific – Solo Strings
> 
> 
> Pricing: $179 intro, $249 full. Free for those ordering Ensemble Strings _during Ensemble Strings’ intro period._
> 
> 
> Webpage: none yet
> Status: post production
> Instruments: solo violin & solo cello
> Content (not yet finalized): legato, motion tremolos, spiccatos, staccatos, pizzicatos, marcatos, and harmonics


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## dyvoid

CG Smith said:


> From the general Pacific orchestra page on the Performance Samples site:


Ah great, I missed that paragraph, thanks so much!


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## ALittleNightMusic

Wonder how accurate the previous demos and patches are now given the months of fiddling and tweaking.


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## Flyo

I sincerely think that Pacific was retained at the end to record and gave 2nd Violins to the costumers. Based on how much repercussion was made in here.


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## Vlzmusic

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Wonder how accurate the previous demos and patches are now given the months of fiddling and tweaking.


Usually with JB, those early demos "catch" a certain quality and communicate his concept very faithfully. My wild guess is that making sure it sounds so across the whole range, and dynamics etc. eats rest of the time till release.


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## Bluemount Score

I'm assuming Pacific is recorded in the same hall as Vista?

I found Fluid Shorts II and Vista to not be very easy to match in the mix (due to mic positions, while different section sizes are the smaller issue), even though I think it's the same hall.


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## BL

Bluemount Score said:


> I'm assuming Pacific is recorded in the same hall as Vista?
> 
> I found Fluid Shorts II and Vista to not be very easy to match in the mix (due to mic positions, while different section sizes are the smaller issue), even though I think it's the same hall.


Voyage and Vista was recorded in the same room.

Pacific was recorded in the same room as Fluid Shorts 2, as well as the Con Moto series, Caspian, and the original Fluid Shorts.


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## polynaeus

Library limitations have been documented now, scroll down on this link…






Pacific – Strings – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


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## polynaeus

Surprised and interested in this regarding how the library is panned or rather how the players were seated…

“This library doesn’t have a super dramatic stereo image. That’s not to say it’s narrow sounding, but it’s certainly not wide like (for instance) Con Moto. The far mics were an AB pair of omnis. Cellos were recorded on the right, violas center-right, *basses rather centered at the rear,* and violins to the left. But the violins don’t sound like they’re on the far left as the players were spread out in 1st and 2nd violins position. They sound somewhat left-center.”

My emphasis.


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## Snarf

polynaeus said:


> Cellos were recorded on the right, violas center-right, *basses rather centered at the rear,* and violins to the left.


This is not an uncommon setup, especially in more modern productions. I'm happy with this choice.


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## polynaeus

Snarf said:


> This is not an uncommon setup, especially in more modern productions. I'm happy with this choice.


Yeah it has me intrigued.


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## davidson

How does the loyalty intro pricing work if I were to buy a qualifying product today? I can't see any buy buttons for pacific currently, so will they appear when it goes live? If so, does that mean the loyalty pricing will last for 12 weeks after the libraries release?


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## Sophus

davidson said:


> How does the loyalty intro pricing work if I were to buy a qualifying product today? I can't see any buy buttons for pacific currently, so will they appear when it goes live? If so, does that mean the loyalty pricing will last for 12 weeks after the libraries release?


In the past you could select between the full price and the loyalty price. I'm not sure if the loyalty eligibility was checked in the background. It just went straight to the payment. And the download links were sent right after paying. It felt like the seller just assumed the buyer made a honest choice for the correct price.

As far as we currently know, the intro phase will last 12 weeks. So, if Pacific would release until the end of November you would have time until the middle of February to get it for the loyalty into price.


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## Enc

Sophus said:


> In the past you could select between the full price and the loyalty price. I'm not sure if the loyalty eligibility was checked in the background. It just went straight to the payment. And the download links were sent right after paying. It felt like the seller just assumed the buyer made a honest choice for the correct price.
> 
> As far as we currently know, the intro phase will last 12 weeks. So, if Pacific would release until the end of November you would have time until the middle of February to get it for the loyalty into price.


Do you think that there will be a BF Sale for Vista maybe? What if I buy Vista at the end of November? Will i get the loyality Bonus then - I guess yes? But what if Pacific will be released just by the end of November and Vista will be on sale? Will I qualify for the loyality price - given the loyality periods really lasts 12 weeks starting with release? Questions over Questions...sorry if they've already been asked.


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## Sophus

Enc said:


> Do you think that there will be a BF Sale for Vista maybe? What if I buy Vista at the end of November? Will i get the loyality Bonus then - I guess yes? But what if Pacific will be released just by the end of November and Vista will be on sale? Will I qualify for the loyality price - given the loyality periods really lasts 12 weeks starting with release? Questions over Questions...sorry if they've already been asked.


In the past Performance Samples had "early" Black Friday sales that latest from early to mid November. If this happens this year, too, the sale could already start in a few days.


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## Enc

Sophus said:


> In the past Performance Samples had "early" Black Friday sales that latest from early to mid November. If this happens this year, too, the sale could already start in a few days.


I hope so...eager to get Vista...even with Pacific on the horizon. I am on a tight budget for this BF.


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## dyvoid

With the new CSS update sounding fantastic, it being a more complete package than Pacific and it going on sale later in the month, I'm really thinking of jumping ship. I've been waiting for Pacific for too long now, while holding off on getting other string libraries. If I miss the discount on CSS and Pacific then takes another half year to release I'm not going to be a happy camper. 

Ofcourse, as life goes, if I buy CSS then Pacific will release a day later, in which case you're all welcome for the great sacrifice I made.


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## Jeremy Spencer

dyvoid said:


> I've been waiting for Pacific for too long now, while holding off on getting other string libraries.


I honestly don't understand all the fuss over Pacific. For a company with no return/resale policy, lack of good customer support, and just a few "meh" freebies based on what's coming, you're certainly better off with CSS. Granted, I love Caspian and Oceania, but PS dropped Caspian completely (glad I made a backup, because once it's gone, it's gone).


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## ism

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I honestly don't understand all the fuss over Pacific


 
It’s the sound. 

Seriously, there’s absolutely nothing else like it. Definitely not CSS.


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## Argy Ottas

Jeremy Spencer said:


> but PS dropped Caspian completely (glad I made a backup, because once it's gone, it's gone).








Caspian – Performance Samples







www.performancesamples.com


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## gst98

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I honestly don't understand all the fuss over Pacific. For a company with no return/resale policy, lack of good customer support, and just a few "meh" freebies based on what's coming, you're certainly better off with CSS. Granted, I love Caspian and Oceania, but PS dropped Caspian completely (glad I made a backup, because once it's gone, it's gone).


If you find the freebies meh then I don't know what to say because, _to me_, they run laps around any paid-for competitor - and I own most of them when it comes to strings/brass. May not be as comprehensive, but in their niche, they are unparalleled imo.

I love CSS for certain things, but I just don't aspire for my music to sound like CSS. I love Williams, Powell and great scores that are mostly recorded at AR, Air or one of the great LA stages - and CSS just doesn't sound _anything_ like them. (with the exception of legatos where the room sound is much less evident)

The free spiccato patch captures the energy of live strings in a way nothing else does. The depth of sampling is also a huge leap forward in the realism of my mockups now that they are so much more dynamic. 

Also in regards to no returns - well that's pretty much the same as 95% of devs.
As for the support - PS support is arguably some of the best support out there. How many devs allow you to add the owner as a friend on FB and sort out issues? Don't know how many times the idea of _"no support" _has to refuted. It's just no formal support line, where 50% of people emailing in are asking questions like "what's kontakt??" or other silly things that SF have to deal with 43 times a day. But there does exist an email for you to write to if you have a serious issue.


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## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I honestly don't understand all the fuss over Pacific. For a company with no return/resale policy, lack of good customer support, and just a few "meh" freebies based on what's coming, you're certainly better off with CSS. Granted, I love Caspian and Oceania, but PS dropped Caspian completely (glad I made a backup, because once it's gone, it's gone).


To me, CSS sounds like a nasally singer. I know there are people out there that can make it sing, but listening to the demos, I can't get excited about it. Whereas, Pacific sounds great out of the box to me. I get wanting to wait for it. 

However, if you need a bread and butter library, @dyvoid, you may want to think about CSS. It looks like Pacific won't have a full set of articulations, which the drop in price reflects. So it may not work as a bread and butter library, depending on the type of music you make.


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## Argy Ottas

Jeremy Spencer said:


> and just a few "meh" freebies


I don't mean to self-promote, but since this thread is about Pacific Strings and your post claims that PS freebies are "meh," I believe my response to this is this cue where I used the Pacific Violins Con Sordino and Pacific Solo Cello freebies!
(0:21-1:26).


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## Jeremy Spencer

Argy Ottas said:


> I don't mean to self-promote, but since this thread is about Pacific Strings and your post claims that PS freebies are "meh," I believe my response to this is this cue where I used the Pacific Violins Con Sordino and Pacific Solo Cello freebies!
> (0:21-1:26).



To me they are "meh", I find them to be noisy (love your piece, BTW). I don't own any of the paid PS strings, but I don't understand all the hype. It's like BBCSO all over again Lol.

I guess we'll see.


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## Jeremy Spencer

gst98 said:


> If you find the freebies meh then I don't know what to say because, _to me_, they run laps around any paid-for competitor - and I own most of them when it comes to strings/brass. May not be as comprehensive, but in their niche, they are unparalleled imo.


I'd love to hear your comparisons.


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## Jeremy Spencer

Argy Ottas said:


> Caspian – Performance Samples
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.performancesamples.com


Now that is weird...I swear PS dropped them awhile back when Angry Brass came out. Glad it's still available!


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## Baronvonheadless

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Now that is weird...I swear PS dropped them awhile back when Angry Brass came out. Glad it's still available!


You’re not wrong but you missed when jasper brought them back a few months ago along with a few other discontinued libraries.


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## Jeremy Spencer

gst98 said:


> As for the support - PS support is arguably some of the best support out there


Well, when I see this in their FAQ, it raises concerns...

"As per the EULA, Performance Samples LLC is not obligated to provide you with any support in connection with the Samples."

Don't get me wrong, I love the PS libraries I purchased, but I'm just wrapping my head around this hype.


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## dzilizzi

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, when I see this in their FAQ, it raises concerns...
> 
> "As per the EULA, Performance Samples LLC is not obligated to provide you with any support in connection with the Samples."
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love the PS libraries I purchased, but I'm just wrapping my head around this hype.


Maybe to scare off the whiny buyers who complain about everything after they buy it because they have buyers remorse? Because not many of the smaller libraries fix stuff after they release it. And the big ones take forever. 

I also wonder if that is why Jasper pulls old libraries. He'd rather make new libraries as perfect as he can than fix old ones. If the complaints are too much, he stops selling them?


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## Baronvonheadless

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, when I see this in their FAQ, it raises concerns...
> 
> "As per the EULA, Performance Samples LLC is not obligated to provide you with any support in connection with the Samples."
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love the PS libraries I purchased, but I'm just wrapping my head around this hype.


Well, I respect that better than Spitfire’s mode of operation. Hahaha. Looking at abbey road 2 with a gleam in my eye and a brick in my hand.


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## gst98

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, when I see this in their FAQ, it raises concerns...
> 
> "As per the EULA, Performance Samples LLC is not obligated to provide you with any support in connection with the Samples."
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love the PS libraries I purchased, but I'm just wrapping my head around this hype.


Yeah, but as I said, he also has a support email on the website. 

I mean to what extent is any company obligated to offer support? I've written to SF hoping to get bugs acknowledged and fixed but here we are 10 years after they launched their brass and it still has tuning issues. SF support still can't get my LABS vst to open in any usable state. Wrote to VSL support months ago to say my Synchron player won't open without crashing Logic - short of asking me to check I'm all updated I haven't heard back since. 8Dio literally lied to me about how much of my original century brass they would refund me if I upgraded to the full package and refused to admit fault despite the fact I have the chat logs. In my experience, I fail to see how these are in any way better than what JB offers

Look at it this way: so far I haven't heard anyone say they wrote to JB with a legitimate issue and he just told them to jog on. He's a good guy and I'm sure if there is a real problem he's gonna sort you out.


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## Henrik B. Jensen

dzilizzi said:


> It looks like Pacific won't have a full set of articulations, which the drop in price reflects. So it may not work as a bread and butter library, depending on the type of music you make.


Will Pacific not be suitable as a bread and butter library, you think?

I realize it’s missing Staccato, 2nd Violins and have a Marcato articulation which Jasper says is a bit limited and that he therefore does not want to count as a “real” Marcato.


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## ism

Jeremy Spencer said:


> To me they are "meh", I find them to be noisy (love your piece, BTW). I don't own any of the paid PS strings, but I don't understand all the hype. It's like BBCSO all over again Lol.


If you don't hear anything special about these libraries, or understand the musicality of an instrument that's, of course, absolutely fair. I feel this way about lots of libraries, most synths, and (especially) trombones (in the very broadest sense of the word).

But I'm not sure what you're looking for here - is it for folks who do perceive what's so singular in what we've heard of Pacific and how are sensitive to the musicalities of it's sweets spots to here to help you understand what it is that you're missing that's so special about this library ... or something else?


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Well, when I see this in their FAQ, it raises concerns...
> 
> "As per the EULA, Performance Samples LLC is not obligated to provide you with any support in connection with the Samples."


It's a read between the line situation that says: look I'm just 1 guy and make the best library i can but i don't have time to do emails etc. That's how i see it. Plus he'd be out of business if he didn't deliver anyway. 



> Don't get me wrong, I love the PS libraries I purchased, but I'm just wrapping my head around this hype.


What's weird to me is that Pacific use the same approach than the ones you own and love so you should understand what's exciting about it no?


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## ALittleNightMusic

Jeremy Spencer said:


> To me they are "meh", I find them to be noisy (love your piece, BTW). I don't own any of the paid PS strings, but I don't understand all the hype. It's like BBCSO all over again Lol.
> 
> I guess we'll see.


BBCSO has second violins at least...


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## dzilizzi

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Will Pacific not be suitable as a bread and butter library, you think?
> 
> I realize it’s missing Staccato, 2nd Violins and have a Marcato articulation which Jasper says is a bit limited and that he therefore does not want to count as a “real” Marcato.


I think it depends on what kind of music you write. It's not going to be a Berlin Strings/EWHO mass of articulations. It may work as a bread and butter for some people.

Edit: going back to the articulations list, it has a lot. It could be bread and butter for a number of people.


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## Futchibon

Argy Ottas said:


> I don't mean to self-promote, but since this thread is about Pacific Strings and your post claims that PS freebies are "meh," I believe my response to this is this cue where I used the Pacific Violins Con Sordino and Pacific Solo Cello freebies!
> (0:21-1:26).



Always a great day with another beautiful Argy composition!


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## FrozenIcicle

Might need to lock this thread again...


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## Mike Greene

FrozenIcicle said:


> Might need to lock this thread again...


I hated to do it, but I just deleted about dozen posts and I can't get muziksculp to stop. I was about to ban him ... again ... but for now, I'll lock the thread.


----------

