# That Zimmer Motif...



## sevaels (Oct 17, 2007)

Hey guys,

OK, bare with me because my knowledge of notation isn't really that strong.

You guys know the motif I'm talking about? That floating, driving staccato string motif you hear in Batman Begins / DaVinci Code and more recently although not a Zimmer score it is all over Transformers. I also heard the Anaheim strings VSL demo recently and got really excited seeing as I purchased Appassionata's only weeks prior.

Anyway the whole thing sounds built off of triplets to me. I think crossing of parts may play a role but I'm wondering if anyone can explain the mechanics behind these lines. I've been trying to ahieve that feel for a few nights now and really have only gotten to what could be considered a crass approximation.

Any help with this would be GREAT. :mrgreen: 

Thanks, Sev


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## synthetic (Oct 17, 2007)

Macro Beltrami posted one of the charts from his xXx 2 score. Mocking up something like this is in my plan... someday soon... when I get the time...

http://marcobeltrami.com/wocms.php?siteID=7&lngID=1&albumID=3 (http://marcobeltrami.com/wocms.php?site ... &amp;albumID=3)

You should try to transcribe one of the Zimmer pieces you like. It's great practice and you'll learn a lot.


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## sevaels (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks guys!

This is perfect, exactly what I needed.

I started tossing around a few more articulations and instantly things started sounding better. You really need an up to date library to make something like this come alive (Fast repetitions). 

I'm going to take your advice synthetic. I'm currently working on a duel of the fates mock up which is taking forever. I am learning quite a bit though.

Thanks guys! o-[][]-o


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## choc0thrax (Oct 17, 2007)

Also maybe Marco's Heli Ride http://marcobeltrami.com/wocms.php?siteID=7&lngID=1&albumID=1 (http://marcobeltrami.com/wocms.php?site ... &amp;albumID=1)

I mocked it up once but lost it when my HD died.


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## LeBeginner (Nov 6, 2007)

Hey Michel, your "Transformers" mockups sound great !

can you tell what are the samples used to obtain the nice drum sound at around 1:17 (on "The Autobot descend") ?


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## LeBeginner (Nov 6, 2007)

soory (made a bad manipulation) :lol:


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## michel (Nov 7, 2007)

LeBeginner @ Tue Nov 06 said:


> Hey Michel, your "Transformers" mockups sound great !
> 
> can you tell what are the samples used to obtain the nice drum sound at around 1:17 (on "The Autobot descend") ?



Thank you!

The drum samples are from the True Strike 2 library. I mostly used the Japanese percussion - Okedo, Okedo-Daiko and Uchiwa-Daiko.


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## LeBeginner (Nov 8, 2007)

thanks a lot o-[][]-o


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## sevaels (Nov 16, 2007)

Soooo...

My initial excitement died down once I really tried to come up with something convincing.

The groove in Batman Begins is so F'ing cool. The strings are lush as hell and the fizzy noise on top of them makes it sound great. I have NO idea how this was done. It isn't simple 8th/16th notes. It may be that for a certain sections but you can easily hear the whole string section throbbing and working together to create this effect. I'd love to get a grip on the notation used.

I've tried so many things including groove templates to get things to push like that and nothing seems to work. I've tried setting the strings back in the Pre-Send reverb and filtering to warm it up but nothing seems to have that groove and feel.

Does _anybody_ have any idea how this is achieved? I'd love to get a handle on it and understand more how this works.

Thanks again to those who helped earlier.

Sev ~o) o/~


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## synthetic (Nov 16, 2007)

If you're in LA, the Scott Smalley class apparently talks about Zimmer's orchestration quite a bit. 

http://www.filmmusicinstitute.com/index.php

I want to do this class one of these days.


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## sevaels (Nov 16, 2007)

Thats crazy you brought that up. Myself and a friend will be attending the one in NY I think.

Until May though....does anyone here have any ideas?

Thanks again!


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## sbkp (Nov 16, 2007)

Scott doesn't talk Zimmer. He pretty much talks his own orchestration, which is based on Jerry Goldsmith's.

Awesome course, though.


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## synthetic (Nov 16, 2007)

Sorry, I thought Jose said something about Zimmer orchestration after the Smalley course. I think you might see some Zimmer scores in the handout, though.


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## sbkp (Nov 16, 2007)

Not that I recall. But I haven't memorized the books 

Definitely Elfman, Poledouris, David Newman, Goldsmith, a John Williams, etc., though.


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## sevaels (Nov 16, 2007)

So noone worthwhile then...


:shock: :x :evil: j/k

I can't wait! 8)


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## José Herring (Nov 16, 2007)

Not on the Smalley course. But I had been talking to Zimmer's orchestrator Bruce Fowler up until about 4 or 5 or so months ago.

Zimmer calls that technique the "motor". It's an inner rhythm played amongst a bed of strings. Sample wise it's just an ostinato played by a short articulation string patch. I find that it creates a great sense of movement in a movie.


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## michel (Nov 17, 2007)

Hey Sev,

are you looking for the notation or more for the post production?


As for the notation, I have created a MIDI and a mp3 file for you. The first excerpt in the mp3 file is the original Hans Zimmer motif and later you can hear my version played with samples.

Maybe you could post your result?


_Michael_


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## Ashermusic (Nov 17, 2007)

IMHO instead of studying Zimmer et al one would be better off studying Stravinsky, which is where "motor rhythms" come form largely.


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## sbkp (Nov 17, 2007)

Ashermusic @ Sat Nov 17 said:


> one would be better off studying Stravinsky



This is generally true, I think


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## sevaels (Nov 18, 2007)

Hey guys,

First off I have to say this community is F'ing great. Where else could you find this?

Anyways. Synthetic the 'On The Track' book is now on my Christmas list. Thanks so much for the advice!

Michel: Thanks so much for the MIDI excerpt. I actually was referring to the gentler parts on track 1 and 2 and scattered throughout. It's very soft. Actually the word 'motor' is perfect for it. I did want to put your midi to use though so in the past 30 mins I did a quick mix. I know its not perfect and I know the drums aren't close but its just a fun little test to try and get near that impact and strength he achieved.

http://download.yousendit.com/F9197D4A15AD30C3

Anyway, the motor I'm thinking of is most prominent in tracks Vespertilio and Eptesicus. Very light and moving.

Thanks!


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## synthetic (Nov 18, 2007)

You're welcome. Stick around and pay it forward.


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## brewmeister (Nov 19, 2007)

A bit late, but scroll down here and you can see a bit of the actual notes for one of the cues.


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## michel (Nov 21, 2007)

sevaels @ Mon Nov 19 said:


> [...]
> 
> Anyway, the motor I'm thinking of is most prominent in tracks Vespertilio and Eptesicus. Very light and moving.
> 
> [...]




I have done another mp3 and MIDI file for you - it's the track _Eptesicus_. The staccato notes are 16th and it's in a 5/4 time. In the mp3 you can hear the original track and later my mockup.

Hope this is helpful to you.


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## sevaels (Nov 22, 2007)

Yet another quick mix of the midi file just to say thank you.

I'm learning quite a bit and I think I finally understand some of the underlying things in the mix.

http://download.yousendit.com/70DA14B137EA5A80

Hope you guys enjoy! o-[][]-o

Thanks again!


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