# NASA Sample Clearance



## Zedcars (Jul 14, 2019)

Hi guys,

I’ve used a sample of Jack King’s famous Apollo 11 countdown commentary for an ambient new age piece I’ve written. I want to self release it on the usual commercial streaming services, but realistically don’t expect to make much if anything back financially. I contacted the representative for the late Jack King’s estate requesting permission to use a less than 10 second sample of him. She (the representative) has got back to me with an enormous fee of £2,500 (over $3,100)! Well, I’m only a hobbyist and I’ve never released any music before. I explained that in my email to them. I will never earn that money back, not even 10% of that, so it seems wholly disproportionate to ask me to pay such an amount.

Is there anything I can do here? Do you think I could email back asking to negotiate that down - maybe if I say I will only use it non-commercially and scale back my plans? I’ve no idea if this fee is exorbitant or reasonable.

I just know I’ve been extremely disheartened and (perhaps naively) shocked by the fee.

Any advice here would be really appreciated.


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## CT (Jul 14, 2019)

I understand your surprise, but my mostly uneducated guess is that there's not much you can do.

I've used the NASA archives for album art purposes a few times, and as I understand it, as a government agency their photographs are largely public domain and free for most use *unless* they feature astronauts or other people. I would assume that applies to voice recordings too, so they probably have every right to demand a fee, exorbitant or not.


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## chillbot (Jul 14, 2019)

Zedcars said:


> Do you think I could email back asking to negotiate that down - maybe if I say I will only use it non-commercially and scale back my plans?


I would think, yes, this is a good starting point. That amount might just be a starting bid, depending on if they actually need the money or just don't care enough whether you take it or leave it. But when you use the words "commercial" or "make much, if anything" it implies that you are looking to make money, even if it is only a few bucks, off of a sample you don't own. Ball is in their court. I would either not monetize it and explain that it is purely a demo, or you could appeal saying any meager dollars you make would go to charity. Or, just rerecord something similar. It wouldn't be authentic but you could certainly nail the vibe pretty easily without actually ripping off the recording.


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## David Cuny (Jul 15, 2019)

What price did you _want_ to pay for the use of the clip in your recording?

I suspect that for well under _that_ price, you could find voiceover talent on Fivver to record equivalent dialog, and have complete commercial rights to it.


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## gamma-ut (Jul 15, 2019)

To be fair to the estate, they probably get a lot of requests like that, and it's probably a busy time right now for handling them. It's difficult to sort the actual "I've got no money" requests from the producers/labels trying the sympathy option to knock the price down. It's funny how many people can't afford stuff when they really, really want it yet have all these other things.

The option of creating a sample with a similar feel looks to be your best option. Making it sound authentic shouldn't be too tricky and it will really wind up sample-spotters if the track does turn out to be a hit.


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## Zedcars (Jul 15, 2019)

Thanks very much for all your useful comments. I think I might try that re-record route, but I’m a bit sceptical at how close the vocal cadences, accent and timbre someone can get to the original. I’ll stick an ad on Fiverr and see what happens.

I think I was expecting to pay something to use that sample - but more in the region of £250 to £500.

I’ll report back and let you know what happens.

Cheers very much!


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## Zedcars (Jul 16, 2019)

I've tried about 5 different voice over actors so far, and none of them really hit the mark. It just sounds inauthentic.

But, I'm starting to wonder about the contact information I have for the estate of Jack King. I got it from these sources:






Restricted Sound Effects | Sound Ideas


Restricted Sound Effects - libraries that include the voices of individuals who did not sign releases for the use of their voice in commercial or other production applications.



www.sound-ideas.com









__





Licensing The Voice of NASA: Jack King – Sound Ideas Blog







blog.sound-ideas.com





But when I look into the company behind Licensing Animal, it seems they are involved in Veterinary Services.



http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Licensing-Animal-Inc-415-342-6542



Something is very odd about that. Sample licensing and Veterinary Services under one business name? Really?

Also, do those licenses ONLY pertain to the effects obtained through Sound Ideas libraries? If I got my clip from NASA's website, then wouldn't that mean different rules apply? I'm confused by the whole process. Especially when it seems any old Tom, Dick or Harry can put together a Youtube clip of the Apollo 11 launch containing the Jack King sample. I'd be surprised if they have legal permission to do so.

At the moment I feel like I just want to post my track with the Jack King sample for free on Youtube, and not sell it anywhere.


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## rgames (Jul 17, 2019)

Did you contact NASA public relations? 

The countdown was conducted during his duties as a NASA employee so it shouldn't have any kind of restrictions. It should be public domain.

rgames


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## Zedcars (Jul 19, 2019)

rgames said:


> Did you contact NASA public relations?
> 
> The countdown was conducted during his duties as a NASA employee so it shouldn't have any kind of restrictions. It should be public domain.
> 
> rgames


That does make sense. No, I’ll get in touch with them. Many thanks.


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## purple (Jul 21, 2019)

Honestly you're better off finding a voice actor that sounds like them and then just processing the voice to sound like the real thing. That'll cost you a lot less and take probably less time too, to be honest. And you'll get some sound design practice in the process.


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## David Cuny (Jul 22, 2019)

I'm not sure exactly what audio you're after, but it looks like if it's "official" NASA audio, it should be in the PD:

NASA Guidelines
NASA Ringtone Sounds
Apollo 11: We Have a Lift-Off


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## akvalley (Jul 23, 2019)

NASA put the Apollo 11 mission audio recordings in the public domain (Creative Commons -- No Copyright) here -- follow the link for the NASA Audio Collection:

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11MissionAudio.html (edit: fixed link)

The countdown is in file "155-AAA" starting at the 1:10:16


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## Wally Garten (Jul 23, 2019)

Zedcars said:


> But when I look into the company behind Licensing Animal, it seems they are involved in Veterinary Services.
> 
> http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Licensing-Animal-Inc-415-342-6542
> Something is very odd about that. Sample licensing and Veterinary Services under one business name? Really?
> ...



Yeah, this sounds off to me. Like somebody did some SEO and got themselves into a search for clearances. Be skeptical.

I think others have it right about NASA's release of copyright -- there's no issue there. It's really just the publicity/likeness right, which NASA says might be an additional clearance you need to get. (See guidelines here.) 

Assuming you are in the US, some states recognize the right of publicity after death and others don't. But there is generally a First Amendment right to use someone's likeness in a creative work, as long as the work is sufficiently "transformative" -- meaning your work is primarily your own expression, not the celebrity’s likeness. Your musical work could qualify, assuming there are enough other elements and it's not just primarily a recording of Jack King. Also, you can't imply his endorsement. See the American Bar Association's summary here:









“Delebs” and Postmortem Right of Publicity


This article provides a 50-state survey concerning the laws on postmortem right of publicity and examines the state law nuances.




www.americanbar.org





Also, keep in mind that if you're making ambient music on the internet as a hobbyist who's not even going to make $350 on this recording... well, you're probably unlikely to attract a lawsuit. 

Usual caveats: consult a lawyer, I am not your lawyer, etc., etc.


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## dzilizzi (Jul 23, 2019)

Looking at the NASA website, it seems like the pictures of people are more of an issue than the voices in the recordings.


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## Zedcars (Jul 23, 2019)

purple said:


> Honestly you're better off finding a voice actor that sounds like them and then just processing the voice to sound like the real thing. That'll cost you a lot less and take probably less time too, to be honest. And you'll get some sound design practice in the process.


Thanks. I have tried with 5 different voice actors. They did a good job but it didn’t sound genuine. Either too jolly like a morning disc jockey, or the wrong accent. I’m going with the original like every other NASA influenced dance track out there.


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## Zedcars (Jul 23, 2019)

David Cuny said:


> I'm not sure exactly what audio you're after, but it looks like if it's "official" NASA audio, it should be in the PD:
> 
> NASA Guidelines
> NASA Ringtone Sounds
> Apollo 11: We Have a Lift-Off


It’s the countdown from the “Ignition Sequence start, 6, 5...” etc.


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## Zedcars (Jul 23, 2019)

Wally Garten said:


> Yeah, this sounds off to me. Like somebody did some SEO and got themselves into a search for clearances. Be skeptical.
> 
> I think others have it right about NASA's release of copyright -- there's no issue there. It's really just the publicity/likeness right, which NASA says might be an additional clearance you need to get. (See guidelines here.)
> 
> ...


Thanks. I’m in the UK. As a hobbyist In realistic that hardly anyone will care enough to listen to my music, although I’ll always do the best that I can (I guess most composers/musicians do).

It’s just nice to know no-one is going to contact you out of the blue demanding a ton of money which I don’t have. It’s only music after all!

Cheers.


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## Zedcars (Jul 23, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Looking at the NASA website, it seems like the pictures of people are more of an issue than the voices in the recordings.


Yes, seems to be. It’s really great all this stuff is available for such a historic event. Everything came together at the right time to enable it a man to walk on the moon and to enable that to be recorded in reasonable quality.


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## Desire Inspires (Jul 23, 2019)

Zedcars said:


> It’s just nice to know no-one is going to contact you out of the blue demanding a ton of money which I don’t have. It’s only music after all!



Shameful attitude towards music.


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## Wally Garten (Jul 23, 2019)

Zedcars said:


> Thanks. I’m in the UK.



Ah. Then, like Jon Snow, I know nothing. Sorry. (But I think you're probably fine.)



Zedcars said:


> As a hobbyist In realistic that hardly anyone will care enough to listen to my music, although I’ll always do the best that I can (I guess most composers/musicians do).



Same here, friend.


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## Zedcars (Aug 3, 2019)

Many thanks for all your replies. If anyone is at all interested, I've posted a mix of this track (no doubt with a bunch of mix issues) here:

Apollo 11 - what genre is this?

Any feedback, even small, would be welcome.

Best wishes.


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