# Some questions about VSL



## DimensionsTomorrow

The product list at VSL is really confusing for me and I don’t hear all that much about VSL around here, compared to say Spitfire.






Product List - Vienna Symphonic Library


The Product List gives you an overview of our products, providing quick access to what you're searching for.




www.vsl.co.at





1) Is VSL still well thought of these days? 

2) Also, any guesses as to what VSL product(s) this was made with? The person that did it said it was made with Vienna Symphonic Library, and I was interested to read more about the product (and for instance check the price) since I love old TV scores, but that product list is way too confusing.


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## doctoremmet

1) absolutely. Their woodwinds are rated as one of the best. Their pianos too, and so are many other instruments.

Also, there are quite many really active threads on here pertaining to VSL! For instance, their Big Bang Orchestra releases just last year were the talk of the town. 

@Ben from VSL is also one of the most active and helpful people on here, representing a sample developer.


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## Ben

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> The product list at VSL is really confusing for me


That's the small downside of having such a huge collection, it looks overwhelming.
But: Thanks to this large collection you will probably find the library you are looking for 

I have summerized the difference of our product lines here: https://vi-control.net/community/th...-different-products.96850/page-2#post-4614565

Feel free to ask me if any questions pop up!


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## doctoremmet

See?


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## heisenberg

Their product listing can be quite confusing and there are many posts over the years that will bolster this view. As doctoremmet said, their BBO or Big Bang Orchestra made quite a splash over the past year or so, VSL has also brought out a new player called Synchron Player that is way more user friendly than their original player, Vienna Instruments Pro 2 which uses their original sample libraries, now known as a the VI Series. They also have an abridged series available, the Special Edition Series. They have some signal processing tools available, the most notable being their advanced reverb toolset called MIR Pro and then a popular external mixing tool called Vienna Ensemble Pro otherwise known as VEPro. They are in the process of rolling out new and revisited libraries for their newish Synchron Player mentioned above. They have rolled out the strings portion of their library and now are in the midst of rolling out their Woodwinds portion of their instrument collection. They have some pretty astounding Percussion libraries both of the standard sort and the more esoteric variety. They also have released a gorgeous Special FX set of orchestral sounds, articulations and phrases that is relatively expansive for that sort of thing. If you dig tonal clusters and the like that you might hear coming from a Penderecki influenced piece, you might get a sense of what this library can do. Could go on but I will leave it at that.


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## SlHarder

VSL's Synchron player will offer you a very consistent environment across all their Synchron libraries. Skills and techniques you learn in one library can then be applied to any of their Synchron libraries. At least take advantage of a 30 demo for a library of instruments you are interested in.


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## Nimrod7

I love Synchron Player, Synchron Strings Pro and Syncrhon-ized woodwinds. Didn't had a chance to try other stuff yet, but soon I will.
They have great stuff, quality control is also very high.
They have demos to try before buying which very few companies offer.


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## DimensionsTomorrow

Thanks for all the info.

Are the the Synchron libraries dry like the VI Series?

My main orchestral library at the moment is Spitfire Studio Orchestra Pro. If the VI Series stuff is very dry, I’m wondering if they might gel well with SStO. One idea would be to pick up individual instruments that look interesting and that would compliment my main library, particularly since it looks like there are upgrade paths.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

I think they have the best software, and with the introduction of the Synchron and Big Bang stuff, also the best samples.

Synchron libraries are not recorded dry. They come with many different mic positions. They're never "stupid wet" though, and they can sound quite dry if desired, depending on your microphone mix.


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## easyrider

The website clearly is in need of a redesign...for anyone new to sample libraries its incredibly hard to navigate...

@Ben at vsl is great and is really helpful to the community....but VSL need to listen to potential customer feedback...the move to ilok is welcome but that website is a victim of the extensive catalogue...


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## JyTy

My vote for the woodwinds as well, have the VI and Synchronised versions... they sound amazing!! Will get at least the Pro strings and some pianos somewhere down the line for sure! And VePRO 7 is an essential part of my setup!!

If I've gotten a chance to rewind a couple of years back and restart my library purchases and get all that money back I would definitely put more of it into VSL from the start 

The new articulations integration with Synchron player and Studio One is handy + a big orchestral setup with their libraries, Vepro7 and MirPro would probably be a nice one, but no chance that I'm re-buying everything again ...


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## Ben

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Are the the Synchron libraries dry like the VI Series?


The Synchron Libraries are recorded in the Synchron Stage, a scoring stage in Vienna, so these samples are "wet". But if required you can use the close and mid mics to get less room.

The SYNCHRON-ized libraries are dry with added IRs, that you can fully control. So you can turn it down completely if you want a dry sound.



DimensionsTomorrow said:


> particularly since it looks like there are upgrade paths.


Yes, there are upgrade paths to the colections that include the instruments. My suggestion: Skip the Standard version of the VI Single Instruments and go for the Full tier directly. You will love the amount of articulations and control over these instruments.

If you want to blend these with other libraries you will need a good reverb in most cases - if you are still in for a good reverb and want to start with the VI series I suggest to get at least one MIRx Roompack that matches the sound you want.
MIRx is a custom tailored IR reverb pack for the VI player, including impulses for all instruments, already pre-seated and with custom volume mathing and EQing.


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## Ben

easyrider said:


> but VSL need to listen to potential customer feedback


We do


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## easyrider

Ben said:


> We do


Noted @Ben ...will look forward to a website overhaul!


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## Jeremy Spencer

I agree the catalogue is overwhelming. However, since the recent announcement of the licensing change, I'm looking forward to buying a few libraries (this was always my road block)). Might be a better financial option than waiting around for the mystical Opus.


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## DimensionsTomorrow

Ben said:


> The Synchron Libraries are recorded in the Synchron Stage, a scoring stage in Vienna, so these samples are "wet". But if required you can use the close and mid mics to get less room.
> 
> The SYNCHRON-ized libraries are dry with added IRs, that you can fully control. So you can turn it down completely if you want a dry sound.
> 
> 
> Yes, there are upgrade paths to the colections that include the instruments. My suggestion: Skip the Standard version of the VI Single Instruments and go for the Full tier directly. You will love the amount of articulations and control over these instruments.
> 
> If you want to blend these with other libraries you will need a good reverb in most cases - if you are still in for a good reverb and want to start with the VI series I suggest to get at least one MIRx Roompack that matches the sound you want.
> MIRx is a custom tailored IR reverb pack for the VI player, including impulses for all instruments, already pre-seated and with custom volume mathing and EQing.


Thanks for the info, Ben.
Are the SYNCHRON-ized instruments available separately or do you have to get them as a package?

For instance is the SYNCHRON-ized upright bass available by itself or do you have to get the plucked bundle?

Also, is it clear on your site, which instruments have SYNCHRON-ized versions? How about the Jazz Drums for instance?


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## Ben

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Are the SYNCHRON-ized instruments available separately or do you have to get them as a package?


The SYNCHRON-ized instruments are not available separatly.



DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Also, is it clear on your site, which instruments have SYNCHRON-ized versions? How about the Jazz Drums for instance?


Not all VI libraries are SYNCHRON-ized yet, but you will see more instruments getting SYNCHRON-ized over time (and you can always upgrade from the VI to the SYNCHRON-ized versions).
The Jazz Drums are not available as SYNCHRON-ized library at the moment.


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## cet34f

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> The product list at VSL is really confusing for me


Why don't you leave their support team a message in the cute little box at the right bottom corner? Oh right, because we are not living in 1990s and our computer is not on Windows 95 anymore.


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## Ben

cet34f said:


> Why don't you leave their support team a message in the cute little box in the right bottom corner? Oh right, because we are not living in 1990s and our computer is not on Windows 95 anymore.


I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a Clippy reference


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## Lukas

+1 for Clippy on the VSL website. Ahahahaah


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## DimensionsTomorrow

It’s a shame about the physical dongle requirement. While I’m curious about the VSL stuff, in all honesty it would take a really special product for me to go that route.


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## doctoremmet

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> It’s a shame about the physical dongle requirement. While I’m curious about the VSL stuff, in all honesty it would take a really special product for me to go that route.


Good news. They just announced they’ll get rid of those shortly


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## doctoremmet

VSL Announcement: Moving to iLok Key / Cloud - We are live!


Dear Community, We have some important announcements to make. You can read the post from our CEO, Herb Tucmandl, here in our forum: https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t57384-Moving-from-eLicenser-to-iLok#post302591 Please note that the official discussion will happen at the VSL forum. Here...




vi-control.net


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## DimensionsTomorrow

doctoremmet said:


> Good news. They just announced they’ll get rid of those shortly


Oh wow, I guess I timed my interest in their stuff perfectly.


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## Ben

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Oh wow, I guess I timed my interest in their stuff perfectly.


And if you still don't own an eLicenser: We have put it on sale on our website and give you a 20€ voucher on top, so you can still enjoy our libraries until we finish the transition


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## Manaberry

I would like to mention the Synchron Timpani II (Soft mallet I guess)
Very pleased with the mic choices. Soft but yet powerful sound.


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## fduncan

Ben, will there be a Synchron pro solo strings in the pipeline ? And are the samples from the synchron-ized Special Edition the same as in the synchron-ized solo strings ? Many thanks.


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## Dewdman42

I have come to prefer the dongle, and I used to loudly proclaim the opposite for many years, but I like that in general _it just works_. I have messed with iLok's cloud based setup a few times with some other products and generally don't like it, I prefer to use the real dongle. yes in general I am happy to use other products that don't require a dongle, its less hassle and I personally have not ever had any problem with registration systems like NI and many other companies use, without dongle... But... They also are easily cracked...so... I completely understand vendor's need to protect their intellectual property with a dongle when they decide to do so. 

iLOK is a very good system and they are very active in their development, following the cracking trends and staying ahead of the game with improving tech to protect the products that use it. You will have the option to use the cloud if you don't want to be bothered with a silly dongle. But the thing about the cloud is that you have to login to the cloud service in order to use the product.. and if you're offline, I guess you'd be SOL.


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## jbuhler

Dewdman42 said:


> I have come to prefer the dongle, and I used to loudly proclaim the opposite for many years, but I like that in general _it just works_. I have messed with iLok's cloud based setup a few times with some other products and generally don't like it, I prefer to use the real dongle. yes in general I am happy to use other products that don't require a dongle, its less hassle and I personally have not ever had any problem with registration systems like NI and many other companies use, without dongle... But... They also are easily cracked...so... I completely understand vendor's need to protect their intellectual property with a dongle when they decide to do so.
> 
> iLOK is a very good system and they are very active in their development, following the cracking trends and staying ahead of the game with improving tech to protect the products that use it. You will have the option to use the cloud if you don't want to be bothered with a silly dongle. But the thing about the cloud is that you have to login to the cloud service in order to use the product.. and if you're offline, I guess you'd be SOL.


In the bad old days I disliked the ilok dongle because it was finicky and threw up random licensing errors. It was most particular about which USB slots it worked in (and not always the same one from day to day) and so forth. I grew to despise it and stayed away from them as much as I could (and never did get an e-licensor). But things improved considerably around 2015, and my most recent computer change in the fall really demonstrated to me how much easier the ilok dongle programs were to move compared to those licensed in the cloud or to the machine. Then too I’m no longer quite so limited in USB ports, and ilok, like most midi equipment, works fine on a secondary powered hub.


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## Nimrod7

Dewdman42 said:


> I have come to prefer the dongle, and I used to loudly proclaim the opposite for many years, but I like that in general _it just works_. I have messed with iLok's cloud based setup a few times with some other products and generally don't like it, I prefer to use the real dongle.


I thought I was alone here.

I like simple serial authentication systems, like Kontakt the most.
And like the dongle better than iLok cloud (between the two offered options).
I had a chance to try it a couple of years back, I didn't liked it at all. I remember having inconsistencies, and I reverted back to iLok dongle. Didn't touched it since then.

Most companies are offering 2 authentications / licenses, so I have 2 dongles, one for each of my computers and both can run same time. I don't know if the iLok Cloud can do that.
They might have improved it since then, which I hope is the case.

I would like to hear from someone that has used the iLok Cloud heavily (having a lot of licenses), transferring between computers etc.


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## Dewdman42

one advantage of the iLok cloud is that you can use the license on two computers (but not at the same time), without having to move a dongle around. So there is that.

Whether a company will give you multi-machine use out of a single license is entirely up to what they feel they should sell or not. if they feel that you should pay twice to use it in a doubled capacity, then they are only going to give you a single machine license, simple as that.


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## Jeremy Spencer

Nimrod7 said:


> I thought I was alone here.
> 
> I like simple serial authentication systems, like Kontakt the most.
> And like the dongle better than iLok cloud (between the two offered options).
> I had a chance to try it a couple of years back, I didn't liked it at all. I remember having inconsistencies, and I reverted back to iLok dongle. Didn't touched it since then.
> 
> Most companies are offering 2 authentications / licenses, so I have 2 dongles, one for each of my computers and both can run same time. I don't know if the iLok Cloud can do that.
> They might have improved it since then, which I hope is the case.
> 
> I would like to hear from someone that has used the iLok Cloud heavily (having a lot of licenses), transferring between computers etc.


I have quite a few on iLok Cloud, including Liquidsonics. No more worrying about losing your license if you break the dongle.


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## GdT

easyrider said:


> The website clearly is in need of a redesign...for anyone new to sample libraries its incredibly hard to navigate...


Oh, I think the web site is quite good compared to some labarythine ones.
Maybe just the overwhelming choice has been confusing some folks.

I am a big fan on the Synchron Player.


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## StillLife

From a technical perspective (sample quality and depth, consistency, software/player) I think that VSL is simply the best there is. I suspect the fact that they are not mentioned as much here as other developers may be due to that there are very little problems with their products and the fact that you can try out each library for yourself. Nothing to complain about anymore!

I have mentioned it before on this forum. I do like the libraries I have from other companies (mainly Spitfire), but if I'd start again today, I'd mainly go the VSL-route.


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## Tralen

StillLife said:


> From a technical perspective (sample quality and depth, consistency, software/player) I think that VSL is simply the best there is. I suspect the fact that they are not mentioned as much here as other developers may be due to that there are very little problems with their products and the fact that you can try out each library for yourself. Nothing to complain about anymore!
> 
> I have mentioned it before on this forum. I do like the libraries I have from other companies (mainly Spitfire), but if I'd start again today, I'd mainly go the VSL-route.


Another reason I believe VSL is not so frequently mentioned here is that they are discreet and have good taste in marketing. I can't say the same about many other developers.



Dewdman42 said:


> one advantage of the iLok cloud is that you can use the license on two computers (but not at the same time), without having to move a dongle around. So there is that.


My real problem with the VSL dongle was trying to sell my licenses. Until they move to iLok cloud, I would have to ship my dongle across the globe in order to transfer the license. This prevented me from selling the libraries that I do not use anymore and, by now, they are mostly obsolete.


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## bill5

easyrider said:


> the move to ilok is welcome


I and I think a lot of people would disagree with that, but can't say where the percentage lies. It would be interesting to see. I do agree with your comments about the web site though.



Dewdman42 said:


> iLOK is a very good system


Again agree to disagree. I get the logic and that if people bouncing from computer to computer like it, fine, but for those of us that don't it's a royal PITA and I avoid anything that uses it or things like it. I do like what I've heard of VSL's products though.


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## Tralen

bill5 said:


> I and I think a lot of people would disagree with that, but can't say where the percentage lies. It would be interesting to see. I do agree with your comments about the web site though.
> 
> 
> Again agree to disagree. I get the logic and that if people bouncing from computer to computer like it, fine, but for those of us that don't it's a royal PITA and I avoid anything that uses it or things like it. I do like what I've heard of VSL's products though.


In the case of VSL, the move to iLok is a move to a much _less_ restrictive system.


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## Jeremy Spencer

bill5 said:


> I and I think a lot of people would disagree with that,


It still stinks, but it’s a lot better than the current elicenser system (which is awful).


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## bill5

Tralen said:


> In the case of VSL, the move to iLok is a move to a much _less_ restrictive system.


Yet still restrictive. No thx!


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## Tralen

bill5 said:


> Yet still restrictive. No thx!


Agreed! But for people like me, iLok Cloud is finally a way of selling my licenses and getting rid of any dongle entirely.


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## Dewdman42

bill5 said:


> Again agree to disagree. I get the logic and that if people bouncing from computer to computer like it, fine, but for those of us that don't it's a royal PITA and I avoid anything that uses it or things like it. I do like what I've heard of VSL's products though.


what exactly is a "royal pain" and why don't think iLok is a good system?

I used to be an iLok hater also, but when I finally decided I had to have VSL libraries, I bit the bullet and now I can say I don't mind it at all...actually...there are some benefits, not just the ability to move from computer computer, which I don't even do. But iLok in particular is so reliable that I even converted all my iLok machine locks over to the dongle also. My only annoyance today would be that if I were using a laptop I'd be annoyed about having dongles sticking out the side or back. Apart from that, its fine. what's the problem with it?

One mall I like to go to uses an annoying parking system, you have to wait at a gate to get in, take a ticket. When you're ready to leave you have to walk to the Kiosk and pay for the ticket (if it has been more then 2 hours) and then you have to pull up to the gate, roll down your window, feed the ticket in, even if you were there less then two hours and don't owe anything...its annoying.. But on the other hand...if they didn't have that, people would cheat....because contrary to popular opinion, a lot of people cheat. Because of this human condition we have to endure annoyances of copy protection. 

There are many threads on the internet about the pros and cons of dongles vs other methods, we don't need to rehash it out again needlessly here. But one simple fact is true, if you're a software dev, that only way to prevent easy cracking of your hard work is to use a hardware based copy protection such as iLok, and in my opinion it is currently the best in the business. I would use iLok too if I were developing a commercial app. I am happy to see VSL move to the iLok platform. You can whine about it all day long but there is zero chance whatsoever that VSL will change to a non-hardware (ie dongle), based copy protection scheme...and if they did somehow find software solution that was strong enough copy protection, I promise you it would have more problems and be an even bigger hassle then iLok is. Even the iLok cloud is already a bigger hassle then the dongle IMHO.


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## Jeremy Spencer

Dewdman42 said:


> Even the iLok cloud is already a bigger hassle then the dongle IMHO.


Actually, I’ve switched all if my ilok protected programs to the cloud (where available). This way I don’t have to place all of my faith into a $.35 dongle chip.


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## Dewdman42

glad it works for you, I find it more hassle. Doesn't iLok provide protection for the unlikely event that the dongle fails? I trust the iLok dongle more than my Mac's filesystem by far! But the iLok cloud actually keeps your license on the cloud and requires you to log into the cloud to use it. For me that is more hassle and won't even work if I'm off line. But yea we have that option and its nice we have it, and convenient also if you want to jump to someone else's studio without taking the dongle...and great for selling VSL libraries without having to send an actual dongle to the buyer, etc.. definitely some benefits, but still for day to day use, the actual dongle is less hassle in my opinion.


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## ptram

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> 2) Also, any guesses as to what VSL product(s) this was made with?


I would guess they are just the full version of the old Vienna Instruments collection. Nice to hear them in a finished production.

Paolo


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## ptram

Dewdman42 said:


> glad it works for you, I find it more hassle.


If I get it right, you will have the choice of using an hardware iLok or the cloud version. The hardware version will likely be like the current eLicenser, only with a much better management software.

Most computers are now continually connected to the internet. So, I guess for most of us the cloud version would be the more convenient one.

What I will probably not like, and would force me to continue using a hardware key, is that the iLok system seems to have zero tolerance for internet disconnections. Since I am connected via a WiMax-like connection, it may happen, in particular with bad weather, that the internet goes down.

It would had been nice if they only disconnected the system after a few hour of internet down, and not immediately. I don't think this would have harmed the protection.

Paolo


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## Tralen

Dewdman42 said:


> what exactly is a "royal pain" and why don't think iLok is a good system?
> 
> I used to be an iLok hater also, but when I finally decided I had to have VSL libraries, I bit the bullet and now I can say I don't mind it at all...actually...there are some benefits, not just the ability to move from computer computer, which I don't even do. But iLok in particular is so reliable that I even converted all my iLok machine locks over to the dongle also. My only annoyance today would be that if I were using a laptop I'd be annoyed about having dongles sticking out the side or back. Apart from that, its fine. what's the problem with it?
> 
> One mall I like to go to uses an annoying parking system, you have to wait at a gate to get in, take a ticket. When you're ready to leave you have to walk to the Kiosk and pay for the ticket (if it has been more then 2 hours) and then you have to pull up to the gate, roll down your window, feed the ticket in, even if you were there less then two hours and don't owe anything...its annoying.. But on the other hand...if they didn't have that, people would cheat....because contrary to popular opinion, a lot of people cheat. Because of this human condition we have to endure annoyances of copy protection.
> 
> There are many threads on the internet about the pros and cons of dongles vs other methods, we don't need to rehash it out again needlessly here. But one simple fact is true, if you're a software dev, that only way to prevent easy cracking of your hard work is to use a hardware based copy protection such as iLok, and in my opinion it is currently the best in the business. I would use iLok too if I were developing a commercial app. I am happy to see VSL move to the iLok platform. You can whine about it all day long but there is zero chance whatsoever that VSL will change to a non-hardware (ie dongle), based copy protection scheme...and if they did somehow find software solution that was strong enough copy protection, I promise you it would have more problems and be an even bigger hassle then iLok is. Even the iLok cloud is already a bigger hassle then the dongle IMHO.


The problem, with VSL in particular, was that your licenses were physically tied to the dongle. If the dongle died, you had to pay 50% to get your licenses back. I don't know if they eventually changed this fee, in any case, this led to absurd things like the "Protection Plan".

In essence, you had to pay for a service to ensure access to software that you already bought. Which is absurd considering that the dongle is there for VSL's benefit, not yours.

Another problem, as I already mentioned, was selling your licenses. You had to ship the dongle by mail, and again, pay a fee to VSL. I was never able to sell a license because of this.

The third problem, to me in particular, is that I work in Linux, and the dongle companies make sure it is nigh impossible running their software/drivers in Linux.


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## Dewdman42

ptram said:


> If I get it right, you will have the choice of using an hardware iLok or the cloud version. The hardware version will likely be like the current eLicenser, only with a much better management software.



I do not interpret it that way. eLicensor is being discontinued, they have only said they will continue to support the old dongles into the future so that we don't to all run out and buy a new dongle tomorrow. But iLok protected products can function several different ways:


You can use an iLok key


you can use the iLok cloud which is not tied to your OS filesystem, the key is stored in the cloud. You can move your authorization back and forth as needed between the dongle or the cloud.


Some iLok products, but not all, allow for a way to auth the machine and not require either the dongle or the cloud, but VSL will not be using that. It is considered a lessor level of protection.



ptram said:


> Most computers are now continually connected to the internet. So, I guess for most of us the cloud version would be the more convenient one.



I have tried the cloud version for one product (chickensys Translator) and was immediately annoyed about having to log into their cloud to use it. Everyone is different of course. I immediately moved Translator to my hardware key the minute I bought one for another product that required it.




ptram said:


> What I will probably not like, and would force me to continue using a hardware key, is that the iLok system seems to have zero tolerance for internet disconnections. Since I am connected via a WiMax-like connection, it may happen, in particular with bad weather, that the internet goes down.



For the cloud iLok,...yes that is true. The hardware key just works. You don't have to even think about it.


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## Dewdman42

Tralen said:


> The problem, with VSL in particular, was that your licenses were physically tied to the dongle. If the dongle died, you had to pay 50% to get your licenses back. I don't know if they eventually changed this fee, in any case, this led to absurd things like the "Protection Plan".



They haven't made it clear yet whether they are going to require the protection insurance or not. I have asked several times and crickets...which to me means they are either still thinking about it or plan to quietly continue that policy, which that thing, I definitely do NOT approve of...but anyway let's wait and see.

iLok generally provides more guarantees then eLicensor did...but I don't know exactly the details on that front...but you'll want to know whether our license is absolutely protected from loss, theft, failure or destruction when talking about a particularly expensive sample library. For me, I pay for VSL's insurance, its annoying, but its also not the end of the world...the price of a meal per year..fine. Don't lose sleep over it. Hopefully under iLok this will not be necessary, but that is left to be seen. VSL is very committed to absolute zero piracy tolerance. There are other threads lamenting this policy, let's not go there now.



Tralen said:


> Another problem, as I already mentioned, was selling your licenses. You had to ship the dongle by mail, and again, pay a fee to VSL. I was never able to sell a license because of this.



Definitely that was a hassle, I bought some used ones and had to go through that. The new Cloud based iLok will definitely help in that regard.




Tralen said:


> The third problem, to me in particular, is that I work in Linux, and the dongle companies make sure it is nigh impossible running their software/drivers in Linux.



Fair enough. Does iLok support linux? I'm not even sure. But anyway, that's definitely part of the risk of running open source operating system. FWIW.


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## ptram

Dewdman42 said:


> was immediately annoyed about having to log into their cloud to use it.


By reading the iLok faqs, it seems that you can leave the virtual key open all the time, so there will not be any need to log in each time. Communication would only happen when a software is actually using it.

Paolo


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## Dewdman42

as I said, when I tried it with another product it was more hassle. Good luck though, hope you like it that way.


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## Tralen

Dewdman42 said:


> They haven't made it clear yet whether they are going to require the protection insurance or not. I have asked several times and crickets...which to me means they are either still thinking about it or plan to quietly continue that policy, which that thing, I definitely do NOT approve of...but anyway let's wait and see.
> 
> iLok generally provides more guarantees then eLicensor did...but I don't know exactly the details on that front...but you'll want to know whether our license is absolutely protected from loss, theft, failure or destruction when talking about a particularly expensive sample library. For me, I pay for VSL's insurance, its annoying, but its also not the end of the world...the price of a meal per year..fine. Don't lose sleep over it. Hopefully under iLok this will not be necessary, but that is left to be seen. VSL is very committed to absolute zero piracy tolerance. There are other threads lamenting this policy, let's not go there now.
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely that was a hassle, I bought some used ones and had to go through that. The new Cloud based iLok will definitely help in that regard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough. Does iLok support linux? I'm not even sure. But anyway, that's definitely part of the risk of running open source operating system. FWIW.


Oh yes, I'm anxiously waiting for iLok, and for cloud in particular. I think the whole VSL ecosystem will improve. I don't think they will be able to continue the Protection Plan, after all, your licenses will be stored safely in the cloud, even if you use the dongle, or am I wrong?

In my case, the last VSL product I purchased was back in 2011. I was set in making my whole template VSL based, but stopped after there was a big commotion about this in the forums. My thinking was: I'm on the far side of the world, with little financial security, how am I going to deal with this if I have a problem? There was no Protection Plan back then.

About Linux, yes, this is particular to my setup, as I must work on Linux regardless. I don't expect support in this front, but dealing with the USB dongle _is_ an additional hassle.


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## Dewdman42

Tralen said:


> Oh yes, I'm anxiously waiting for iLok, and for cloud in particular. I think the whole VSL ecosystem will improve. I don't think they will be able to continue the Protection Plan, after all, your licenses will be stored safely in the cloud, even if you use the dongle, or am I wrong?



Well this point is more to explain. First yes, when you register any iLok protected app, it is registered in a central Database with your login credentials that you own a certain list of apps...regardless of where the actual authorization for running it is currently sitting. You might have some that are not currently used which are in your iLok account, but not currently authorized on any dongle or anything at all... This is part of why I think iLok can potentially protect our licenses without requiring insurance, but I don't know the exact details right now.

However, the iLok-Cloud feature is something else. You have n number of authorization for each product, determined by the developer what they want to include in the sales price. In order to use it, you have to authorize a particular device to use your license with a so called "authorization". That can either be assigned to a hardware key, or can be assigned to a special cloud account, which is like a virtual dongle. not both. You can move it back and forth if you need to sell your license you can easily drag it from your hardware key to the cloud, or visa versa...but not both at the same time unless your license includes 2 or more authorizations in the license.

And some products can be authorized to the Mac/PC itself.....but not all products allow that method, including VSL.




Tralen said:


> In my case, the last VSL product I purchased was back in 2011. I was set in making my whole template VSL based, but stopped after there was a big commotion about this in the forums. My thinking was: I'm on the far side of the world, with little financial security, how am I going to deal with this if I have a problem? There was no Protection Plan back then.



IMHO, VSL is the best. It costs a lot. But it is simply the best. But there are a lot of other outstanding products also, IMHO are not in the same league as VSL, but that comment will spark angry debate I'm sure..but that is how I see it. Nonetheless, you can get a lot of music done at top shelf pro level with other products too. If their authorization problems are just too much to bear, then try something else. The protection plan is a must have if you spend more than a few thousand bucks on VSL stuff. for people that only run VePro or some SE stuff, its kind of a thorn in the side...so I hope VSL is able to get away from it with iLok, but we'll see.


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## Tralen

Dewdman42 said:


> Well this point is more to explain. First yes, when you register any iLok protected app, it is registered in a central Database with your login credentials that you own a certain list of apps...regardless of where the actual authorization for running it is currently sitting. You might have some that are not currently used which are in your iLok account, but not currently authorized on any dongle or anything at all... This is part of why I think iLok can potentially protect our licenses without requiring insurance, but I don't know the exact details right now.
> 
> However, the iLok-Cloud feature is something else. You have n number of authorization for each product, determined by the developer what they want to include in the sales price. In order to use it, you have to authorize a particular device to use your license with a so called "authorization". That can either be assigned to a hardware key, or can be assigned to a special cloud account, which is like a virtual dongle. not both. You can move it back and forth if you need to sell your license you can easily drag it from your hardware key to the cloud, or visa versa...but not both at the same time unless your license includes 2 or more authorizations in the license.
> 
> And some products can be authorized to the Mac/PC itself.....but not all products allow that method, including VSL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO, VSL is the best. It costs a lot. But it is simply the best. But there are a lot of other outstanding products also, IMHO are not in the same league as VSL, but that comment will spark angry debate I'm sure..but that is how I see it. Nonetheless, you can get a lot of music done at top shelf pro level with other products too. If their authorization problems are just too much to bear, then try something else. The protection plan is a must have if you spend more than a few thousand bucks on VSL stuff. for people that only run VePro or some SE stuff, its kind of a thorn in the side...so I hope VSL is able to get away from it with iLok, but we'll see.


Thanks for the thorough explanation, much appreciated.

In the end, I created my template with other libraries, but the core is still VSL. This year, my template makes 10 years, and I'm set again to rebuild and modernize everything, but in a much better position to choose.


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## bill5

Dewdman42 said:


> what exactly is a "royal pain" and why don't think iLok is a good system?
> 
> I used to be an iLok hater also,


Then you already know the answer to that question. 



> There are many threads on the internet about the pros and cons of dongles vs other methods, we don't need to rehash it out again needlessly here.


And yet, that's what you're doing, at great length. 



> contrary to popular opinion, a lot of people cheat


I doubt it's "a lot." I think those people are in the minority. And honestly, I think companies are saving very little money with such things...I think those who try to cheat the system wouldn't have paid for it if the cheat didn't work, so they are losing little money. But I frankly don't care what the % is. Again I get the logic, I'm not damning any company for using it, but there are plenty of plugins which don't require that and those are the ones that get my business.



> You can whine about it all day long


I wasn't "whining," I simply stated my opinion...



> if they did somehow find software solution that was strong enough copy protection, I promise you it would have more problems and be an even bigger hassle then iLok is. Even the iLok cloud is already a bigger hassle then the dongle IMHO.


So you admit both are a hassle.


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## el-bo

Does iLok Cloud need to be online the whole time the software is being used, or is it just for logging in?

*Edited*: From a quick search it would appear it does need a constant connection


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