# Berlin Brass Intro Price Ends - New Demo!



## OrchestralTools (Sep 30, 2016)

Hi Guys,

we are proud to announce the *pre-order start* of *Berlin Brass*,
the *final main* *instalment* of the *Berlin Series*.

With *Berlin Brass* we deliver the *first class Brass Collection* that completes your *Berlin Orchestra*.
A sound for *premium ambitions* to create *realistic* and *sophisticated brass arrangements*.
Recorded at the famous *Teldex Scoring Stage*, this Collection combines *definition* with *true power*.

*Berlin Brass Demo by Adam Hochstatter:*



*Berlin Brass Demo by Benny Oschmann:

*

*Berlin Brass demo by Snorre Tidemand

*

*Berlin Brass Chapter IV: Trombones & Tuba*


*
Berlin Brass Chapter III: Trumpets

*


*Full Flexibility* - Choose between 11 single instruments and 3 ensembles:

Horn 1
Horn 2
Horn 3
Horn 4
Horn Ensemble a4
Trumpet 1
Trumpet 2
Trumpet 3
Trumpet Ensemble a3
Trombone 1
Trombone 2
Bass Trombone
Trombone Ensemble a3
Tuba
Here is the full *ARTICULATION LIST*.

*Berlin Brass* follows a whole new approach, which was developed over years of experimentation to
achieve *the next level of flexibility and realism*.
*
Berlin Brass* is based on *CAPSULE* for Kontakt - Manage your articulations and build your own patches.
*Customize your workflow with CAPSULE*.

*Berlin Brass* can now be pre-ordered at an *attractive pre-order price* of just *599€+VAT*.
Find all information on our *PRODUCT PAGE*.

The normal price will be 799€+VAT.

The release date of the Collection is October 19.

All the best from the OT office!


----------



## Zhao Shen (Sep 30, 2016)

Holy. Shit.


----------



## rottoy (Sep 30, 2016)




----------



## Mihkel Zilmer (Sep 30, 2016)

Congratulations OT! 

I often write for horns in 4 parts or trumpets / trombones in 3 parts, finally I can have dedicated *solo* instruments for each part, recorded in the same room. 

Can't wait until the 19th.


----------



## Saxer (Sep 30, 2016)

Goodbye.........

.......................money.


I'll never regret.


----------



## marco berco (Sep 30, 2016)

Absolutely gorgeous, OT has raised the level one step ahead. very realistic sounding and the right complement for the OT Full Orchestra. The ability to manage the number of players in a section the way you want or having the choice to use the ensemble horns, trumpets or t'bones for unisson lines is really stunning.

It is on the expensive side of the market but it is really worth the price for the work OT has done on this product.

Just one last word : Thumbs up !


----------



## mac (Sep 30, 2016)

Is this going to be a kontakt player library? For that price...


----------



## rottoy (Sep 30, 2016)

Given the behemoth size of the library, I would happily chug down the money for a "Lite" version of this library featuring only the ORTF mics. (Which I surprisingly liked the most in the comparison.)


----------



## Reactor.UK (Sep 30, 2016)

mac said:


> Is this going to be a kontakt player library? For that price...


The main library will be a kontakt library... the expansions will be through the file browser.


----------



## gjelul (Sep 30, 2016)

Sounds great!

Does anyone hear hiss when samples are played (especially on the Tpt lyrical @ 9:20)?
Hmm..... Hopefully, the is just on my system.


----------



## ChristopherDoucet (Sep 30, 2016)

Very cool stuff! The most exciting part of the Berlin series for me is that it encourages me to write more legitimately with the solo instruments!

As a happy user of Berlin Woodwinds, I will eventually pick up Berlin Strings and Berlin Brass for sure, but man, it hurts to get this announcement, the day I buy Spitfire Symphonic Brass! hah

I REALLY hope that eventually, there will be an option to purchase a BERLIN ORCHESTRA, with everything included at perhaps a slightly discounted rate! That would be amazing!

But I think i would have to re-do my template from scratch!


----------



## mac (Sep 30, 2016)

Cheers @Reactor.UK 

Am I right in thinking there's no auto divisi feature? You basically write out four separate midi parts on four separate solo horn instances?

It does sound nice, but probably way too vast and detailed for my current needs if I'm honest.


----------



## muziksculp (Sep 30, 2016)

Hello, and Congratulations to Orchestral Tools ! 

Looking forward to enjoy your _Berlin Brass _Library. 

All The Best,
Muziksculp


----------



## Reactor.UK (Sep 30, 2016)

mac said:


> Cheers @Reactor.UK
> 
> Am I right in thinking there's no auto divisi feature? You basically write out four separate midi parts on four separate solo horn instances?
> 
> It does sound nice, but probably way too vast and detailed for my current needs if I'm honest.


You are right. There is no auto divisi


----------



## jamwerks (Sep 30, 2016)

WOW! Thank God for OT!!


----------



## MrCambiata (Sep 30, 2016)

gjelul said:


> Sounds great!
> 
> Does anyone hear hiss when samples are played (especially on the Tpt lyrical @ 9:20)?
> Hmm..... Hopefully, the is just on my system.


I'm hearing it too... But otherwise sounds great.


----------



## Lassi Tani (Sep 30, 2016)

From the manual, the horns I,II,III and VI has the same articulations. There's no auto-divisi, but since I don't have it in any of my libraries, I don't know, what I'm missing .

Great job Orchestral Tools! The sound is gorgeous both in quiet parts and loud parts. And it is a huge library, but aren't all OT libraries huge?


----------



## Anthony N.Putson (Sep 30, 2016)

Godly...


----------



## tarantulis (Sep 30, 2016)

How many dynamics are included?


----------



## erica-grace (Sep 30, 2016)

gjelul said:


> Does anyone hear hiss when samples are played (especially on the Tpt lyrical @ 9:20)?



I hear it as well.

That's what happens when you have four solo instruments, as opposed to four instruments recorded togetgher - you have four times the noise.


----------



## dcoscina (Sep 30, 2016)

rottoy said:


> Given the behemoth size of the library, I would happily chug down the money for a "Lite" version of this library featuring only the ORTF mics. (Which I surprisingly liked the most in the comparison.)


Yeah I'd be down with that too. I never real use the close mics for much. But let's give the guys a break for now and just a high five for a terrific library they've produced.


----------



## rap_ferr (Sep 30, 2016)

Does anybody know up to when the pré order price ends? October 19th?


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Sep 30, 2016)

there certainly is a p one on the the interface, i forget if i saw a pp.


----------



## Lode_Runner (Oct 1, 2016)

Dear Orchestral Tools, please please please consider releasing a Berlin Orchestra Bundle featuring the main libraries: Strings, Woodwinds, Brass and Percussion (+ Timpani expansion).


----------



## Freespace2 (Oct 1, 2016)

Looks good, sounds good, but I cannot be use this one because I usually don't have enough time to write 11 solo brass lines for full brass section.

However, If OT announce future update about auto divisi, then I'll buy this.


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Oct 1, 2016)

There are a lot of ways around this without it being complex.
Very versatile system.


----------



## Ashermusic (Oct 1, 2016)

Congrats,OT, it sounds terrific.


----------



## Mundano (Oct 1, 2016)

OTBB = Orchestral Top Brutal Brass


----------



## artinro (Oct 1, 2016)

Question for OT: Is repeated-note legato something covered in this new library? Didn't see any mention in the patch list or in the video. Thanks! It sounds terrific.


----------



## dcoscina (Oct 1, 2016)

I think we need to hold off on requests so the guys have some time to catch their breath. This is a terrific achievement. Maybe we should start another thread with pie in the sky wishes so the OT guys can visit it after they've had some time to bask in their latest release. 

Btw- the lesser known Berlin Brass Exp C library Horns has auto divisi. And it's wonderful. Yeah there's not a ton of articulations but it's spectacular what is there. I use them with Ark and Sphere and they sound wonderful.


----------



## tack (Oct 1, 2016)

dcoscina said:


> Maybe we should start another thread with pie in the sky wishes so the OT guys can visit it after they've had some time to bask in their latest release.


But surely the way developers bask in a product release is by soaking up customer enthusiasm. And what better way to demonstrate interest in a product than to ask a million questions about it? Well, one might actually _buy _it, of course -- if one _could. _


----------



## dcoscina (Oct 1, 2016)

tack said:


> But surely the way developers bask in a product release is by soaking up customer enthusiasm. And what better way to demonstrate interest in a product than to ask a million questions about it? Well, one might actually _buy _it, of course -- if one _could. _


I'd love to grab this. I just did a very brassy piece for a radio show Intro and I cobble together a bunch of libs like CB, VSL DB, and OT Ark.


----------



## OleJoergensen (Oct 2, 2016)

It sounds really good. To my ears it has a true and clean sound.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 2, 2016)

Are all the solo instruments recorded separately? It would be great of course - an incredible (and rather tedious) feat, but I just wonder if this is really the case? I can't see any way you could record both the section and all the solo musicians at the same time, without getting bleeding in pretty much all your mics from the other players. The room/stage/surround mics would obviously be impossible to record with both soloists and the ensemble at the same time.

I really, really hope it was all recorded separately - anyone knows...? Of course, the noise issue mentioned in this thread could become an issue when recording separately and stacking 4 times room and mic noise on top of each other. So there might be some limitations in real use in that respect.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 2, 2016)

How could they have recorded them together, having all the different mic selections?


----------



## OT_Tobias (Oct 2, 2016)

Yes, all instruments were recorded seperately.


----------



## JohannesR (Oct 2, 2016)

Craig Sharmat said:


> There are a lot of ways around this without it being complex.
> Very versatile system.


Would genuinely love to hear your thoughts on this, Craig! I really liked the overview video, but my second thought was that I can't work quickly enough with all individual instruments. I would love to see an "auto-divisi" feature as well.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 2, 2016)

OT_Tobias said:


> Yes, all instruments were recorded seperately.



Thanks, that's good to know! Damn, I don't envy you those long recording sessions and sample editing days...  But I think you have a winner in this library.


----------



## midiman (Oct 2, 2016)

How soon can we expect to hear audio demos? And more Videos? Thank you. Sounding very good.


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Oct 2, 2016)

JohannesR said:


> Would genuinely love to hear your thoughts on this, Craig! I really liked the overview video, but my second thought was that I can't work quickly enough with all individual instruments. I would love to see an "auto-divisi" feature as well.



Outside of legato instruments you can use any of the solos as a group instrument. You can of course go deeper but that can simplify things.


----------



## mc_deli (Oct 3, 2016)

I got a card in the post from OT. Very nice. Thanks.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 3, 2016)

Just watched the Metropolis Ark I video. I see that it's extensive brass section was already thought-out to compliment what they would do in BB. Excellent work OT!


----------



## Lassi Tani (Oct 3, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> Just watched the Metropolis Ark I video. I see that it's extensive brass section was already thought-out to compliment what they would do in BB. Excellent work OT!



That's true! I knew once Ark I was released, that it will work well with BB, and Berlin Strings too. They've really thought it out well to release Ark I first, and then BB.

Waiting for demos too.


----------



## gjelul (Oct 3, 2016)

erica-grace said:


> I hear it as well.
> 
> That's what happens when you have four solo instruments, as opposed to four instruments recorded togetgher - you have four times the noise.




So, what you're saying is that with the library we get 4 times the Hall included?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Oct 3, 2016)

gjelul said:


> So, what you're saying is that with the library we get 4 times the Hall included?



Well yes, that is the nature of that each sample is recorded individually, so the hall noise is adding up. To a certain extent that doesn´t matter that much, but I had experienced Problems with that ecspecially when you mockup Pieces with a lof of part writing in lower dynamics so that it builds up a significant hallnoise which is unnatural overpresent. There are methods in the postprocess to minimize those Events but you have to treat it very carefully because when you do it too much you kill also the ambience of the samples which is not good. And this is not an orchestral tool Thing, this applies to most of the other orchestral libraries with baked in reverb as well. I noticed that hall noise can be very problematic on part writing in very low Dynamics because then the Balance of sample Sound and room is more prominent than in louder sections. For the normal modern filmmusic writing that might be less important but when doing more classical stuff with part writing and fake divisi then you really should now how treat that.
You know there are developers out there who provides brass mj / mn / dim chords like cinesamples does, so that you can use them in situations where you want to have such chords, but then that is also so limited because you don´t have any freedom how you voice the chord etc.
So in the end: It is still samples, very very good libraris but in some ways we are still so far away from the real thing. But I don´t want to complain, I thankful that I have those sounds nowadays at my fingertips which is still a luxury compared to the times where you mocked up those things with an old Roland Super JV (still loving mine).
So and yes, you can work with dry samples where you have not that baked in reverb and put a reverb later on over it but then it sounds very often for me like a sampled orchestra playing like in a gigantic trashcan.


----------



## cadenzajon (Oct 3, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Well yes, that is the nature of that each sample is recorded individually, so the hall noise is adding up...



@AlexanderSchiborr, if this is the only aspect of the conversation you find yourself up to commenting on with regard to the Berlin Brass preview, I'm going to assume you are writing a demo for it or have some other secret knowledge under NDA.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Oct 3, 2016)

cadenzajon said:


> @AlexanderSchiborr, if this is the only aspect of the conversation you find yourself up to commenting on with regard to the Berlin Brass preview, I'm going to assume you are writing a demo for it or have some other secret knowledge under NDA.



I don´t get the Point so much regarding your comment here. I tried to explain to the other guys comment regarding his question  And no I am actually not writing a demo for it.


----------



## erica-grace (Oct 3, 2016)

gjelul said:


> So, what you're saying is that with the library we get 4 times the Hall included?



Correct!


----------



## cadenzajon (Oct 3, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I don´t get the Point so much regarding your comment here. I tried to explain to the other guys comment regarding his question  And no I am actually not writing a demo for it.



@AlexanderSchiborr I'm curious on your thoughts about what we've seen of this new library and suspected there might be a good reason you had been so quiet about it.  I totally agree with your comments about noise buildup.


----------



## erica-grace (Oct 3, 2016)

cadenzajon said:


> @AlexanderSchiborr, if this is the only aspect of the conversation you find yourself up to commenting on with regard to the Berlin Brass preview, I'm going to assume you are writing a demo for it or have some other secret knowledge under NDA.



I do not understand the point regarding your comment here either. It is almost like you are trying to say Alexander is wrong - in fact, he is 100% correct.

The fact is, that when you record one instrument by itself, it has a certain amount of noise. Call it noise floor, call it hall noise, call it room tone, call it what you like. Then you record another instrument by itself, and that as well has a certain amount of noise. Now you layer those two instruments on top of one another, and you have more volume than one instrument playing by itself, but you also have more noise. More noise than had you recorded both instruments playing together. 

Don't get me wrong - I am not saying that OT has taken a bad approach - no, I am simply making an observation.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Oct 3, 2016)

Dont get me wrong guys. The bb so far from what I can hear is an astonishing new library which I am also consider to buy. I bought the whole Berlin strings series incl. their expansions and more and I am thankful to be able to use such great libraries by this outstanding developer and symphatic guys at OT. I was just trying to explain a General thing..


----------



## gjelul (Oct 3, 2016)

cadenzajon said:


> @AlexanderSchiborr, if this is the only aspect of the conversation you find yourself up to commenting on with regard to the Berlin Brass preview, I'm going to assume you are writing a demo for it or have some other secret knowledge under NDA.




Wow... it feels like the secret of the creation of man is being given away on the V.I. Forum 

The library sounds great - as do other ones. Personally, I don't like that hiss / floor noise / hall noise, or whatever we can call it. But, it's not the reason why I today decided and went ahead and bought the Spitfire Brass instead.


----------



## cadenzajon (Oct 3, 2016)

gjelul said:


> Wow... it feels like the secret of the creation of man is being given away on the V.I. Forum



Yup, it's true. Life first began at the Teldex Scoring Stage. You read it here first!


----------



## camelot (Oct 4, 2016)

I would not panic over the noise build up from layering of three or four recorded instrument samples. 
Our complete template is producing an overlay of recorded audio samples. Furthermore, it is totally common to layer individual string sections with samples from various sources. No one is concerned about noise build-up there.


----------



## cadenzajon (Oct 4, 2016)

camelot said:


> I would not panic over the noise build up from layering of three or four recorded instrument samples.



Agreed, I don't see this as being particularly different from a full BWW section with several flutes, clarinets, oboes, and bassoons, and I've never noticed noise buildup in BWW-heavy compositions or heard complaints about it. With Spitfire I might have more concerns about an enormous quantity of solo instruments, due to the wetness of their recordings.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Oct 4, 2016)

Nobody does panic here. Anyways I have said everything in that regard that has to be said and it was not related specifically to the demo video of BB.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 4, 2016)

Just listened to the video again. Noise is a non-issue imo.


----------



## tabulius (Oct 4, 2016)

Didn't notice the extra noise - so it's not problem for me.


----------



## OleJoergensen (Oct 4, 2016)

I don´t hear the noise either but maybe I dont know what to listen for. Is it actually something you guys hear or is it theoretically, so to speak?


----------



## erica-grace (Oct 4, 2016)

Definitely audible, but I agree - this is a non-issue. Especially in context.


----------



## novaburst (Oct 4, 2016)

I think this one is for the big boys and girls , they certainly nailed it, i think this is where the bar is now.
But do you expect any less from OT


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 4, 2016)

erica-grace said:


> Definitely audible, but I agree - this is a non-issue. Especially in context.


This x100.
I heard it the first couple of times I listened to Sasha's walk through. Left if for a couple of days and re-listened to the video. I can still hear it but, it seemed much less prominent. I don't believe it would be an issue in the context of a full mix. It's certainly not dampening my enthusiasm for this library.


----------



## handz (Oct 4, 2016)

It really sounds amazing but I have a feeling that for many ppl this is being quite an overkill (180gb library - wow). I would really really appreciate light version of your libs.


----------



## Samulis (Oct 4, 2016)

Really astounding quality! Probably the most life-like brass library I have heard, as a brass player myself. I have still yet to find a trombone that I like well enough to use, but this is almost there...

However, the equal tempered locking (phaselocked?) really ruins those beautiful chorale moments in the video! No real brass section would play equal tempered (when alone, in particular), but instead in Just Intonation, tuning perfect intervals with each other, from the bass up, as the piece proceeds. It is the one last step developers have yet to take towards realistic brass, in my opinion, and I think you folks have a shot at it.

I hope you consider implementing some sort of just intonation option in the future or maybe even a little pitch waver, as all real brass players would do in performance... especially at the price tag and overall engine complexity this product has. Again, an astounding product on the cutting edge.


----------



## NIGHTNEO (Oct 6, 2016)

Pre-Ordered.

but, ...no Flutter?


----------



## OrchestralTools (Oct 6, 2016)

Hi Guys,

here is our first official demo composition made with Berlin Brass.
It comes from Snorre Tidemand.
The following Orchestral Tools Collections have been used in the demo:

- Berlin Brass Main + EXP C
- Berlin Strings Main + EXP E
- Berlin Woodwinds Main + EXP A&B
- Berlin Percussion Bundle
- Metropolis Ark I
- The Orchestral Grands
- Orchestral String Runs
- Symphonic Sphere

Enjoy!


----------



## jononotbono (Oct 6, 2016)

Sounds incredible. Man, when I have enough money I won't hesitate to buy the full OT Berlin Orchestra.


----------



## erica-grace (Oct 6, 2016)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> here is our first official demo composition made with Berlin Brass.



Sounds great! Thanks for posting.

Can we get a "naked" demo. One with ONLY Berlin Brass Main? Thanks!


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 6, 2016)

Nice!


----------



## novaburst (Oct 6, 2016)

camelot said:


> would not panic over the noise build up from layering of three or four recorded instrumen


I think you should expect noise or artifacts from most samples as being part of nature of samples, and this is from any library.

Nevertheless all noise, artifacts and, bleeding should be taken care of in your final mix or in your mixing process with noise removing tools, plugins, you should at least have a few at your disposal. 

There are very good ones around that do not interfere with ambiance .


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 6, 2016)

I imagine that the samples themselves have already been noise-reduced as much as is possible and musicale sounding. Don't think any more should be necessary at the mixing stage.


----------



## rottoy (Oct 6, 2016)

I love hearing a (practically) full Berlin template being showcased in the latest Berlin Brass demo.
Sounded fantastic.


----------



## dcoscina (Oct 6, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> Sounds incredible. Man, when I have enough money I won't hesitate to buy the full OT Berlin Orchestra.


Me too


----------



## Lassi Tani (Oct 6, 2016)

Lovely demo! Great to hear full OT Berlin Orchestra at last! The wait has been long, but worth it. Can't wait to get the money, and buy the rest of the orchestra. More naked demos would be nice.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 6, 2016)

sekkosiki said:


> Lovely demo! Great to hear full OT Berlin Orchestra at last!


Yes great to hear everyone together? Sounds big and "airy", bigger than EW, maybe about the same size as Sony, but smaller and less "diffused" than SF. Teldec seems to have been a wise choice for recording!


----------



## Lassi Tani (Oct 6, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> Yes great to hear everyone together? Sounds big and "airy", bigger than EW, maybe about the same size as Sony, but smaller and less "diffused" than SF. Teldec seems to have been a wise choice for recording!



Great indeed, have been waiting this since 2 years ago, when I bought BWW. It's like the puzzle's last piece was found with Berlin Brass. Sounds big, but still clear, which I like a lot. I wonder, which mics he was using.


----------



## novaburst (Oct 6, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> Sounds big


+1


----------



## JBacal (Oct 6, 2016)

Exciting sound! Congrats!

--Jay


----------



## tack (Oct 6, 2016)

Looking forward to Mike Verta's demo.


----------



## midiman (Oct 6, 2016)

erica-grace said:


> Sounds great! Thanks for posting.
> 
> Can we get a "naked" demo. One with ONLY Berlin Brass Main? Thanks!



+1 "Naked Demo" would be great.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 7, 2016)

tack said:


> Looking forward to Mike Verta's demo.


Is Mike doing a demo? 

I'd be equally keen to simply hear his thoughts on actually using the library if he has access (or any other folk doing demos).


----------



## desert (Oct 7, 2016)

Finally some trumpets that actually sound real (sorry HWBrass)


----------



## tack (Oct 7, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Is Mike doing a demo?


I have no idea. I hope so. In any case I certainly look forward to such a hypothetical demo. Mike's demos are brutal toward sample libraries and revealing in just the way I like.


----------



## noxtenebrae17 (Oct 7, 2016)

Fantastic demo.

Pre-ordered. Looking forward to downloading on the 19th.


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Oct 7, 2016)

Hoping to hear a demo that shows the libraries lower dynamic range in a choral setting such as in John Williams - Hymn to the Fallen.


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 7, 2016)

SymphonicSamples said:


> Hoping to hear a demo that shows the libraries lower dynamic range in a choral setting such as in John Williams - Hymn to the Fallen.


Amen, that's what I'm really waiting on also.


----------



## rottoy (Oct 7, 2016)

SymphonicSamples said:


> Hoping to hear a demo that shows the libraries lower dynamic range in a choral setting such as in John Williams - Hymn to the Fallen.


They should do a "Hymn to the Fallen Dynamics" with patches tweaked entirely to fff.


----------



## cadenzajon (Oct 7, 2016)

New demo posted! "The Wages Of War" by Ben Botkin...


----------



## rottoy (Oct 7, 2016)

cadenzajon said:


> New demo posted! "The Wages Of War" by Ben Botkin...


----------



## NoamL (Oct 7, 2016)

Something sounds a little weird/foggy about the a4 horns (just me?) but those trumpets sound _amazinggg_


----------



## erica-grace (Oct 7, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Something sounds a little weird/foggy about the a4 horns (just me?)



They sound really good to me...


----------



## novaburst (Oct 7, 2016)

rottoy said:


>


I wish that there is more awareness that this forum is shared by many, both male and female also children will be looking in for skill and advice on music.

It is disgusting


----------



## rottoy (Oct 7, 2016)

novaburst said:


> I wish that there is more awareness that this forum is shared by many, both male and female also children will be looking in for skill and advice on music.
> 
> It is disgusting


To be fair, no child would be able to afford Berlin Brass and hence probably wouldn't look in this thread.

You are right however and I was a bit too hasty with my meme gifs. I will edit my original post.


----------



## midiman (Oct 7, 2016)

tack said:


> Looking forward to Mike Verta's demo.



+1 for a Mike Verta Demo!


----------



## midiman (Oct 7, 2016)

Would love to hear a demo exploring the more lyrical side of Brass like Saving Private Ryan like the following passage.


----------



## midiman (Oct 7, 2016)

Or a passage like this showing soft and lyrical possibilities of the trumpet like this one (at 1:30)


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 7, 2016)

Sounds great! So looking forward to this!!


----------



## Reactor.UK (Oct 7, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> or full Kontakt 5- will 5.5.x work?


I believe it's with Capsule 2.5, so I'd assume the requirement would be Kontakt v5.51 similar to the other recent updates.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 8, 2016)

Berlin Brass website says works with player and full v 5.5.1


----------



## David Gosnell (Oct 9, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> Don't want to upgrade to 5.6 yet, given a lot of the complaints I've seen around it.



I would second this plea to Orchestral Tools and any other dev. For me, I would prefer the earliest version of the current release of Kontakt (in this case 5.0) for new libraries that supports full functionality (i.e. the base minimum release is necessary for the library to work correctly) - not saving the instruments so they only work from the current latest release onwards. For most major software I prefer to be 6 months behind the latest release so I can be confident of reliability.

One of the upsides of downloadable libraries and fibre broadband is that you can buy a library to fix a challenge with a current project. The idea of having to update the sequencer or sample player mid project is just a no-no!


----------



## desert (Oct 9, 2016)

Pound to Australian dollar is ridiculous € 599 > $980 :\


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 9, 2016)

desert said:


> Pound to Australian dollar is ridiculous € 599 > $980 :\


I feel your pain. 

Though on my Calc it comes out at $880. Having said that, nobody gives you the straight exchange rate, certainly not PayPal or Credit Card companies. Does it end up at $980 after factoring in their pound of flesh?


----------



## milesito (Oct 9, 2016)

I wish a Mike Verta review/demo of this came up prior to the early bird discount deadline of 10/19. :D


----------



## erica-grace (Oct 9, 2016)

desert said:


> Pound to Australian dollar is ridiculous € 599 > $980 :\



Ouch! 

Do you have a friend or family member that lives in Europe, or the USA, who can buy it for you?


----------



## desert (Oct 9, 2016)

erica-grace said:


> Ouch!
> 
> Do you have a friend or family member that lives in Europe, or the USA, who can buy it for you?



I do not - but even if I did I would have to Paypal them and their conversion rates aren't forgiving either

I'm wondering if they offer a Christmas special, although discounting their new product is unlikely


----------



## Reactor.UK (Oct 9, 2016)

desert said:


> I do not - but even if I did I would have to Paypal them and their conversion rates aren't forgiving either
> 
> I'm wondering if they offer a Christmas special, although discounting their new product is unlikely


To my knowledge Orchestral Tools have never done sales (only pre-order).


----------



## desert (Oct 9, 2016)

Reactor.UK said:


> To my knowledge Orchestral Tools have never done sales (only pre-order).



Welp... there goes my wallet


----------



## tack (Oct 9, 2016)

There will be an intro offer, but we don't know what it will be. But I expect it's safe to assume the discount will be less than the pre-order savings.

I do hope we see more videos or demos before the pre-order deadline though.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 9, 2016)

desert said:


> Welp... there goes my wallet


Mine has just gone up in flames. But I'm not complaining as I need a new one anyway. 

Oh wait, that's going to cost me more money!?...

What have I doooooone!!!

Jokes aside, it's a relatively expensive library but I'm expecting it to be worth the purchase price and to represent value on a quality per $/£/€ unit ratio (if such a measure actually exists). Having said that, I completely understand that everyone has a budget to stick to and this will likely not fit into everyone's price structure.


----------



## Reactor.UK (Oct 10, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> With the pre-order at 599 and the full release price being pegged at 799, if we get an intro price offer I think it'll likely be in the region of 699.


I don't want to speculate as I'm not aware of Orchestral Tools having done an intro price before.

All previous Orchestral Tools libraries (to my knowledge) the pre-order price stops on the day of release and then reverts to the default price (all prices displayed are excl VAT if purchased in the EU).

With the Berlin Percussion there was a bundle offer with the expansion pack, likewise there are educational discounts. Furthermore there is a possibility of discounts on significant bundles if requested via email (however please note, this may be case by case or have since ceased).

I don't know if the intro price will be announced until the Berlin Brass is released, for all other enquiries Orchestral Tools are quick to respond (though, please take into account these next few weeks may be somewhat busy).


----------



## tack (Oct 10, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> I'd assume that the pre-order price _is_ the intro offer. But if I had to speculate, that's what it would be.


The pre-order price _isn't_ the intro price. The website makes that fairly clear I think.



> _PRE ORDER NOW _to get a very attractive rate of € 599.- (instead of € 799.-).
> Special ends on release date.
> With the release there will be another Intro Special rate available.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Oct 10, 2016)

Hi Guys,

chapter II of our Berlin Brass screencast series is now online.
Enjoy the Berlin Brass Horns.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 10, 2016)

Sounds great! Writing with all these soloists will undoubtedly take a little longer to program, but the added realism should make it worth the extra time. I can imagine sketching with just one solo horn, then breaking that out into 4 parts copy & pasting regions. 5 years later, finally a replacement for HB as my main brass library. Hopefully the mute expansion won't be too far off!...


----------



## desert (Oct 10, 2016)

Still waiting for Trumpet demo

EDIT: I mean, no offence to Hendrik, but french horns sound amazing on any brass sample library. The Trumpet will be the selling point for me


----------



## midiman (Oct 10, 2016)

desert said:


> Still waiting for Trumpet demo


+1 Trumpet please!


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 10, 2016)

tack said:


> The pre-order price _isn't_ the intro price. The website makes that fairly clear I think.


You just can't go chucking facts around willy-nilly. It will start to get very confusing.

(thank you).


Edit - +1 for trumpet demo please. Has to be one of the hardest to get sounding really good. (I may be fussy in this regard as a former trumpet player).

Edit edit - Also thanks for the Horns demo. It's looking/sounding very good.


----------



## Jack Weaver (Oct 10, 2016)

desert said:


> The Trumpet will be the selling point for me



Mind you, I've already pre-purchased it. But I do very much agree with this poster. In brass libraries trumpets hold the same position that violins do in string libs.

It is, however, very much an acquired taste thing with both trumpets and violins and most likely I personally will never be totally satisfied with sampled offerings of either. But I have heard enough to date of the trumpets in Berlin Brass to know that they have something that no other library has - great clarity. Teldex seems to be a very good room for brass. Some of the individual trumpet performer's attacks can possibly be faulted but the overall tone and ambience is good. I know OT has a different take on how to achieve vibrato during performance than say, Spitfire, so I'll pay close attention to how well that works - especially for trumpet(s).

I look forward to using it along with of Ark 1 brass for moments of extreme dynamics (especially with the low brass, trumpet ensemble and the two differing horn ensembles) - and see how it works with the other libraries...

It may take a while to develop best practices for using this library with the necessary speed while still maintaining the great finesse points and subtlety it has.

.


----------



## noxtenebrae17 (Oct 10, 2016)

FINALLY! Someone does repetitions correctly. So excited for this library. Horns sound great. Thank you for all the hard work OT!


----------



## Lode_Runner (Oct 11, 2016)

desert said:


> Pound to Australian dollar is ridiculous € 599 > $980 :\





SoNowWhat? said:


> I feel your pain.
> 
> Though on my Calc it comes out at $880. Having said that, nobody gives you the straight exchange rate, certainly not PayPal or Credit Card companies. Does it end up at $980 after factoring in their pound of flesh?





erica-grace said:


> Ouch!
> 
> Do you have a friend or family member that lives in Europe, or the USA, who can buy it for you?



Desert, the price is in Euros not Pounds  If it were British Pounds, then it would be AU$975 (today's exchange rate) as you calculated, but as it's Euros SoNowWhat? is correct that it's AU$881. Don't get anyone from Europe to buy it for you unless you want a side of VAT with that.

Sigh, if only this had been released before the Reserve Bank pushed our Dollar down with their constant talk of lowering interest rates... apparently it's good for the economy to have a lower Australian dollar, but I am so much poorer now.

Oh and the Horns sound AMAZING!


----------



## OrchestralTools (Oct 11, 2016)

Benny Oschmann delivers a "Festive Prelude" made with Berlin Brass and Berlin Percussion only!


----------



## cadenzajon (Oct 11, 2016)

OrchestralTools said:


> Benny Oschmann delivers a "Festive Prelude" made with Berlin Brass and Berlin Percussion only!



That really is beautiful. Can you post the source MIDI so that we can try it with Spitfire, Cinebrass, Chris Hein, HB, SM, and Bravura?  (Just kidding!! Love the forum dudes!!!)

I really like the depth of the sections from all the solo instruments. Really sounds excellent to my ears. BB is going to be my first Berlin library. I can't wait!


----------



## OleJoergensen (Oct 11, 2016)

OrchestralTools said:


> Benny Oschmann delivers a "Festive Prelude" made with Berlin Brass and Berlin Percussion only!



Wow. That brass library sounds great!


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 11, 2016)

Great piece! And BB sounds so 3D it's amazing!


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig (Oct 11, 2016)

Absolutely love it! I can hardly wait to try my very own complete Teldex orchestra.


----------



## rottoy (Oct 11, 2016)

OrchestralTools said:


> Benny Oschmann delivers a "Festive Prelude" made with Berlin Brass and Berlin Percussion only!



It really nails that sweet spot between warm silky to piercing.


----------



## noxtenebrae17 (Oct 11, 2016)

Every demo/video that comes out is just fantastic guys. And what a wonderful composition by Benny. Can't wait!


----------



## TimCox (Oct 11, 2016)




----------



## desert (Oct 11, 2016)

TimCox said:


>


Gonna need a lot more money than that


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 11, 2016)

That Demo sounds bloody amazing. Well done OT and I tip my hat to Mr. Oschmann.
Think this may have just been elevated to "pull trigger" status.

#PedantAlert - sure I heard some woodwind trills near the beginning (with the triangle), so not just BP and BB? Maybe?


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 11, 2016)

desert said:


> Gonna need a lot more money than that


lol.
It's alright mate, them there's US bills, not plastic, see through monopoly money.


----------



## TimCox (Oct 11, 2016)

Too good to pass up, I've made my first official OT purchase


----------



## james7275 (Oct 11, 2016)

Damn, that sounds good! I don't have the money to spend on it, but just wanted to say how awesome it sounds.


----------



## BachN4th (Oct 11, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> That Demo sounds bloody amazing. Well done OT and I tip my hat to Mr. Oschmann.
> Think this may have just been elevated to "pull trigger" status.
> 
> #PedantAlert - sure I heard some woodwind trills near the beginning (with the triangle), so not just BP and BB? Maybe?



Trumpet trills in a place you would normally expect to hear woodwinds, methinks. But wow, amazing piece of music that is performed very well by Berlin Brass. I've already got most of the brass out there, Cinebrass core and pro, Hollywood Brass, and Spitfire Symphonic Brass - but BB just sounds fantastic. Here's to hoping I can sell my (real) Tuba before the pre-sale ends so I can buy it.

PS. Anyone want to buy a 4/4 Bbb Silver plated 4 rotor VMI 2103 tuba in excellent condition with gig bag and Yamaha silent brass system?


----------



## galactic orange (Oct 11, 2016)

Very enjoyable composition. Horns do sound a little washy, but nothing a little different mic position wouldn't fix possibly? Trumpets and trombone sound very good to my ears; tuba a little quiet for my taste. But the sound, oh the sound!


----------



## Sebastianmu (Oct 11, 2016)

Drop-dead-gorgeous!

Thinking about buying it on release, just to be allowed to throw more money at OT for doing such a fine job!


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Oct 12, 2016)

I've gotta be honest, I'm rather disappointed with this library. Whoa there cowboy, let me explain. Disappointed in the fact that my credit card is not coming to the party on this one, it's fighting me God dame it, and the library could potentially cause relationship issue due in part to selling ones soul to try and get over the line for the pre-order pricing and the sheer amount of time it would most happily occupy


----------



## Sean Beeson (Oct 12, 2016)

SymphonicSamples said:


> I've gotta be honest, I'm rather disappointed with this library. Whoa there cowboy, let me explain. Disappointed in the fact that my credit card is not coming to the party on this one, it's fighting me God dame it, and the library could potentially cause relationship issue due in part to selling ones soul to try and get over the line for the pre-order pricing and the sheer amount of time it would most happily occupy


I own so many brass libraries I am having a hard time justifying this one to my wife. Even she is like "WHOA YOU GOT TOO MANY BRAZZZ LIBRARIES!"

Might have to do a secret mission order...


----------



## mac (Oct 12, 2016)

I swear, as much as I like it, if SSB keeps giving me hung notes...


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 12, 2016)

Sean Beeson said:


> ..I own so many brass libraries ...


Just tell yourself that if you don't have Berlin Brass, you don't have brass!


----------



## rottoy (Oct 12, 2016)

Sean Beeson said:


> I own so many brass libraries I am having a hard time justifying this one to my wife. Even she is like "WHOA YOU GOT TOO MANY BRAZZZ LIBRARIES!"
> 
> Might have to do a secret mission order...


Just counter with: Well, you have too many "bra libraries"!


----------



## mac (Oct 12, 2016)

Strangely, I cant see whether it's possible to switch between articulations, either by note or velocity. Does anyone know whether that's possible?


----------



## OT_Tobias (Oct 12, 2016)

Yes, there will of course be Multi Articulation patches in Berlin Brass!
The video(s) did not use them, but they are there.


----------



## mac (Oct 12, 2016)

OT_Tobias said:


> Yes, there will of course be Multi Articulation patches in Berlin Brass!
> The video(s) did not use them, but they are there.



I was almost hoping you wouldn't say that


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 12, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> It's a trumpet


Yep. Was pointed out earlier. Listened again. Very quiet for trumpet trill.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Oct 12, 2016)

Chapter III of our screencast series is online.
Enjoy the Berlin Brass Trumpets!


----------



## Lassi Tani (Oct 12, 2016)

Love it! Beautiful sound! I really like the same concept as in BWW, great job Orchestral Tools. The bonus Molto Espressivo patches are interesting too. I'm sure I would find usage for them. And that chordal run sounded great too. I just gotta get that library.


----------



## kavinsky (Oct 12, 2016)

this is superb. can't criticize anything, trumps sound crisp yet not too harsh, legatos seem to be working really smooth
I'm going to wait for the bones walkthrough but I'm almost certain I'm pre-ordering it


----------



## OleJoergensen (Oct 12, 2016)

Wonderful tone, beautiful composition.
Thank you OT.


----------



## OleJoergensen (Oct 12, 2016)

320 GB samples (185 compressed). If download does it means 185 GB data to download?


----------



## kavinsky (Oct 12, 2016)

OleJoergensen said:


> 320 GB samples (185 compressed). If download does it means 185 GB data to download?


somewhere around that, yes.


----------



## OleJoergensen (Oct 12, 2016)

kavinsky said:


> somewhere around that, yes.


Thank you.


----------



## desert (Oct 12, 2016)

OrchestralTools said:


> Chapter III of our screencast series is online.
> Enjoy the Berlin Brass Trumpets!




F me...

EDIT: Can you only buy OT products from their website?


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Oct 12, 2016)

you could say this is just really great marketing except the library backs it up.


----------



## Reactor.UK (Oct 12, 2016)

desert said:


> Can you only buy OT products from their website?


Yes


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 12, 2016)

desert said:


> F me...



Short, effective and above all, accurate.


----------



## synergy543 (Oct 12, 2016)

OleJoergensen said:


> 320 GB samples (185 compressed). If download does it means 185 GB data to download?


However, I wonder if it would need double of that space (185G x 2) to uncompress the .rar files? Maybe OT (Tobias?) can answer? (...cause if it does, I'll need to do some serious hard drive cleaning).


----------



## Lawson. (Oct 12, 2016)

synergy543 said:


> However, I wonder if it would need double of that space (185G x 2) to uncompress the .rar files? Maybe OT (Tobias?) can answer? (...cause if it does, I'll need to do some serious hard drive cleaning).



When extracting (not just using Connect but in general), you need space for both the uncompressed AND compressed files. You can delete the compressed files after, of course, but while extracting you need room for both.

So in this case, if the download is 185GB and the total size is 320GB, you'd need a total of 185+320=505GB free space on your drive.


----------



## kavinsky (Oct 12, 2016)

Lawson. said:


> So in this case, if the download is 185GB and the total size is 320GB, you'd need a total of 185+320=505GB free space on your drive.


320GB is the size of uncompressed, non ncw files.


----------



## desert (Oct 12, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Short, effective and above all, accurate.


I give permission for OT to use "F me..." as their official review

Price is $801 aud btw if anyone is interested


----------



## Lawson. (Oct 12, 2016)

kavinsky said:


> 320GB is the size of uncompressed, non ncw files.



Oh, my bad, I misread the post. So then I guess you'd do 185+185=370GB of free space to decompress it.


----------



## synergy543 (Oct 12, 2016)

Lawson. said:


> Oh, my bad, I misread the post. So then I guess you'd do 185+185=370GB of free space to decompress it.


Lawson, I almost hit the buy button on a larger SSD. Now that would've been awesome. 
Well, thats still a lot of space I'll need to clear out before I can download.


----------



## JohnRosso (Oct 13, 2016)

Hey guys, if I missed something, did anyone else get promo brochure from OT?
Square white letter





With black brochure




And some text 




I love it


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Oct 13, 2016)

I think if you guys at Orchestral Tools were to offer the pre-order customers a free two week period with access to an online relationship counselor you may get more pre-orders


----------



## Reactor.UK (Oct 13, 2016)

JohnRosso said:


> Hey guys, if I missed something, did anyone else get promo brochure from OT?
> Square white letter


Yep, I received one a couple of weeks ago... I've got all their other products... I don't know who received and those who didn't (ie: criteria).


----------



## Kejero (Oct 13, 2016)

I didn't get a letter, but I only got their woodwinds. Looks like the wind players are being ignored. Some things never change.


----------



## OT_Tobias (Oct 13, 2016)

Everyone who has ever bought something from us should have received it.
I received it, because I bought Orchestral String Runs wayyyyy back 
If not, maybe we have an outdated address?


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 13, 2016)

SymphonicSamples said:


> I think if you guys at Orchestral Tools were to offer the pre-order customers a free two week period with access to an online relationship counselor you may get more pre-orders


#nextgen


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 13, 2016)

For those living in the USA, you need to go ahead and order now before the election incase Trump becomes president and builds a wall not allowing the "bonus molto express. trumpet patches" to come into the country.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 13, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> For those living in the USA, you need to go ahead and order now before the election incase Trump becomes president and builds a wall not allowing the "bonus molto express. trumpet patches" to come into the country.


What are your thoughts Rodney? Have you watched/listened to the trumpets walkthrough with Sasha?


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 13, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> What are your thoughts Rodney? Have you watched/listened to the trumpets walkthrough with Sasha?


I need to watch and listen to them more closely, yesterday I was busy enrolling our 3 year-old into preschool and she was just, "Oh so excited" all day long for me to think.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 13, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> I need to watch and listen to them more closely, yesterday I was busy enrolling our 3 year-old into preschool and she was just, "Oh so excited" all day long for me to think.


 Completely understand. Also, didn't mean to put you on the spot but I would love to know what you think when you get around to it.


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 13, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> In the video, it's outright stated that all 3 trumpets are C trumpets, but I recall you stating from watching the preview trailer that they all looked completely different and wrong.


My friend, it takes much more than all the trumpets to be in C to make them the same. There is a difference between the sounds of rotary vs. pistons which clearly had both in the video.


----------



## OT_Tobias (Oct 13, 2016)

The trumpets are all C Trumpets.
The Tuba is in F.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Oct 13, 2016)

Adam Hochstatter delivers a huge impact with "They Know We're Here" featuring Berlin Brass.


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 13, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> That's not what I said at all though. You said there were all kinds of different trumpet instruments in the video, such as an E flat trumpet, pistons and rotary and that the legato in the library wouldn't work. The video says that they're all C trumpets. I didn't say anything about there not being any mix of rotary or piston instruments.


Hey, my friend again, here were my original concerns from another thread with some updated comments now answered by the video:
_They are not even playing the same kind of instruments. You have rotary-valved trumpets that play and sound nothing like the others, (good luck getting the legato working with pistons mixed with rotary) C piston-valve trumpets, Bb piston-valve trumpets, what looks to be an E flat trumpet, trying to blend silver brighter instruments to warmer non-sliver plated instruments, it says trumpet 1,2,3 and a3 but you have an extra 4th female trumpet player in there for what?_
In the video they are not all playing the same type of trumpets primarily rotary and piston, and you can see a Bb trumpet at :45. Concerning Eb, I said what "looks to be" instead of "is" because it was hard to tell from the angle of the 2nd trumpet player which also has a silver trumpet which tends to project more with a brighter timbre in comparison to a warmer raw brass or non-silver plated instrument. It's going to be interesting to see and hear how the legato transitions work between the rotary and piston valves if they use that combination. I have personally played both and they sound and play totally different. If they made it work, then great, but it's the same as trying to get piston valve trumpets and horn legato transitions to work together in unison, or valved-trombone and slide trombone, or euphoniums and trombones, or tubas and bass trombones. Maybe that's one reason why Cinesamples never sampled true legato in their bass trombone and tuba unison patch? But I have heard that Spitfire done a fine job combining legato transitions with horns and euphoniums in their Albion 2. I am still wondering what the 4th trumpet player was recording. 

_You also see the first trumpet player playing 1920's jazz rocking valve vibrato instead of breath vibrato like modern orchestral players. _
I see now that that is possibly where the "molto express." patches came from. 
_

_


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 13, 2016)

OrchestralTools said:


> Adam Hochstatter delivers a huge impact with "They Know We're Here" featuring Berlin Brass.



Is 1:46 (EDIT: meant to say 1:20ish) to the end tuning issues, effects, or chord, timbre, or textural choice?


----------



## kavinsky (Oct 13, 2016)

OrchestralTools said:


>



Nice JW references there, great demo


----------



## Smikes77 (Oct 14, 2016)

Kejero said:


> I didn't get a letter, but I only got their woodwinds. Looks like the wind players are being ignored. Some things never change.



I`ve only got their ww, and I received a letter. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory type stuff.


----------



## Vischebaste (Oct 14, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Is 1:46 to the end tuning issues, effects, or chord, timbre, or textural choice?



1:46 is the end.


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 14, 2016)

Vischebaste said:


> 1:46 is the end.


Lol! I need to stop worrying about my daughter in preschool and pay attention to what I am writing. Meant to say 1:20ish to the end.


----------



## rottoy (Oct 14, 2016)

That has to be either the normal pitchbend in Kontakt or some FX.
Because I refuse to believe that there's such glaring tuning issues present in as polished a library as Berlin Brass.


Rodney Money said:


> Is 1:46 to the end tuning issues, effects, or chord, timbre, or textural choice?


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 14, 2016)

rottoy said:


> That has to be either the normal pitchbend in Kontakt or some FX.
> Because I refuse to believe that there's such glaring tuning issues present in as polished a library as Berlin Brass.


No library is without sin.


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira (Oct 14, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> No library is without sin.



yet


----------



## rottoy (Oct 14, 2016)

Requesting a mockup of this with Berlin Brass.


----------



## rottoy (Oct 14, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> No library is without sin.


True, but that passage exhibited some pretty significant issues.
Can't believe neither Orchestral Tools nor Adam Hochstatter who made the demo in question would've picked up on it.


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira (Oct 14, 2016)

rottoy said:


> True, but that passage exhibited some pretty significant issues.



that pitch thing was clearly intentional...


----------



## rottoy (Oct 14, 2016)

Gabriel Oliveira said:


> that pitch thing was clearly intentional...


That's what I'm thinking as well, but it's good to just pose the question regardless.


----------



## Smikes77 (Oct 14, 2016)

Unless there`s a cc to control 'tiredness level'.


----------



## prodigalson (Oct 14, 2016)

rottoy said:


> That's what I'm thinking as well, but it's good to just pose the question regardless.



It is, IMO, intentional. AFAIK, there are trombone glissandi patches that he's using.


----------



## rottoy (Oct 14, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> It's obviously intentional. AFAIK, there are trombone glissandi patches that he's clearly using.


Well if at least one person (Rodney Money) was wondering if it was due to tuning issues rather than using an FX patch, it isn't that obvious is it?


----------



## prodigalson (Oct 14, 2016)

"obvious" is defined as simply "easily perceived". It doesn't follow that everyone has to perceive something for it to be obvious. 

But I'll edit my post. It didn't come off as I intended.


----------



## desert (Oct 14, 2016)

Well the trumpet player didn't even take a breath in that short passage! Circular breathing patch confirmed


----------



## rottoy (Oct 14, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> "obvious" is defined as simply "easily perceived". It doesn't follow that everyone has to perceive something for it to be obvious.
> 
> But I'll edit my post. It didn't come off as I intended.


Because your phrasing wasn't "obvious" enough.


----------



## prodigalson (Oct 14, 2016)

rottoy said:


> Because your phrasing wasn't "obvious" enough.



Indeed.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Oct 14, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> @OT_Tobias Could you please confirm whether or not the pitch bend in the latest demo at 1:20 is an intentional glissandi/bend, as opposed to a tuning fault and defect which people are claiming?


Hi guys, this is definitely an intentional bend.


----------



## NoamL (Oct 14, 2016)

rottoy said:


> Requesting a mockup of this with Berlin Brass.




I won't be able to play with BB until after the 25th but I will definitely be mocking up these two pieces for Halloween -





The ORTF microphones will be very nice for simulating placing the brass at the front of the stage.

These pieces are deceptively difficult for samples btw. Here's my attempt with Hollywood Brass (making use of all the a1, a2 a4 patches etc), and I'm not sandbagging... the library just can't meet the needs of all the short artics...



also switching between a1/a2/a3, which this Quidditch fanfare does constantly, is totally bootless with Hollywood Brass. Not only does it not _really_ create a 3d space, but the timbral differences between the patches are very distracting, especially the 1/2/3 trumpets. It sounds like two different ensembles, not players joining and leaving a unison line.

There are also tremendous inconsistencies between ensembles in terms of how they interpreted "Marcato short," "staccato" etc. You move a note to another patch's track and it's an entirely different style of performance.

This is why BB's approach (1/1/1/tutti) is totally the right way to go. From what we have heard so far, it seems that they have prioritized consistency, blend, and spatialization. 

The variety of close mics, especially, look to have been wisely planned and well-engineered.

It does seem that HWB & Cinebrass's horns have a little more identity and oomph (and a bigger _ff_?) than BB's, but in every other respect Berlin's players sound just great. The trumpets are just what I want trumpets to sound like 

Very excited to see what BB can do!


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 14, 2016)

NoamL said:


> I won't be able to play with BB until after the 25th but I will definitely be mocking up these two pieces for Halloween -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And I'm excited to hear your mock ups.


----------



## camelot (Oct 15, 2016)

Well, to me this bending sounded intentionally from the beginning and not arbitrary. I fits composition wise and was far too exposed to be something unwanted.
A really good demo by Mr. Hochstatter, some John Williams at first, while the second part remembers me of Elfman.


----------



## pianoman239 (Oct 15, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Is 1:46 (EDIT: meant to say 1:20ish) to the end tuning issues, effects, or chord, timbre, or textural choice?


Pitch bend is intentional! Not a tuning issue, that would be a MAJOR tuning issue, OT would never let something that crazy into the sample world  - Adam


----------



## camelot (Oct 16, 2016)

pianoman239 said:


> Pitch bend is intentional! Not a tuning issue...


Anything else would have been surprisingly ridiculous. 

May I ask, what was used in this fabolous demo aside from BerlinBrass? Is the rest Berlin series as well or from your own template? 
Did you tweak the sound of Berlin Brass in any way, for example with an EQ? 
Because I found the sound in your demo better than from the walkthroughs.


----------



## pianoman239 (Oct 16, 2016)

camelot said:


> Anything else would have been surprisingly ridiculous.
> 
> May I ask, what was used in this fabolous demo aside from BerlinBrass? Is the rest Berlin series as well or from your own template?
> Did you tweak the sound of Berlin Brass in any way, for example with an EQ?
> Because I found the sound in your demo better than from the walkthroughs.


Thanks for the kind words Camelot! Berlin Brass was the only OT library used in this demo. I always EQ/mix virtual instruments at least a touch, because I find most samples need a little bit of love - even these amazing libraries like Berlin Brass. So yes, I did EQ all of the brass, each instrument in a different way. I also mix on my B&W monitors and then remix all of the stems on Avantone cubes to expose the muddy mid-range sounds that tend to dull the mix. This allows the samples to be brighter/cleaner/crisper - which I find helps make them sound more realistic. To answer the library question - I used many libraries from many different developers to get the rest of the orchestral sound. I've spent years digging and researching to get the sound you're hearing, so I choose not to share my "orchestral cocktail" of sounds. Hope you found the demo useful!


----------



## benatural (Oct 16, 2016)

Any word on the trombone and tuba walkthroughs? I'm very close to picking this up but I'm curious to hear what the trombones sound like in isolation.


----------



## desert (Oct 16, 2016)

I'm assuming the preorder deal ends 18th october? Since it is released on the 19th.


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 16, 2016)

I am interested on what you all think of the intonation at 6:38 and 7:17 on the trumpet video.


----------



## synergy543 (Oct 16, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> I am interested on what you all think of the intonation at 6:38 and 7:17 on the trumpet video.


Ignorance was bliss. But you've ruined it for me Rodney.  Dude, you've got radar ears and you're edumacating mine more than I wished. I 'was' really really excited about this but yes, I do hear the flaws in intonation now that you point them out. And at 7:17 I think there is some phasing going on. Any theories as to why this is happening? (the intonation seems the larger of the flaws. Is it the combination of different types of instruments that you mentioned? OTOH, possibly the different instruments also add to some of the liveliness of the sound? Particularly the different french horn sounds seems to be a BIG benefit in the overall results). 

Well, these are samples after all so none of this is to be completely unexpected. Maybe they will be able to make some tweaks? Or possibly they are baked in already in which case, "it is what it is". And thanks to you! I'll never be able to hear it without focusing on these minor flaws!  Overall though, I do think this library adds some very exiciting possibilities with brass sounds. And in comparison to existing samples, this is a tremendously exciting addition despite its little blemishes. 

Seriously though (I was just messing with ya), I do honestly appreciate your opinion and insight into these matters as its great to have the ears and opinions of a brass expert around. So thank you.


----------



## 5Lives (Oct 16, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> I am interested on what you all think of the intonation at 6:38 and 7:17 on the trumpet video.



Hopefully it will be fixed!


----------



## rottoy (Oct 17, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> I am interested on what you all think of the intonation at 6:38 and 7:17 on the trumpet video.


I did notice that when I watched the video the first time. Surprised me.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Oct 17, 2016)

Hi Guys!

Here it is, the last chapter of the Berlin Brass screencast series:
Chapter IV - Trombones & Tuba


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 17, 2016)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> Here it is, the last chapter of the Berlin Brass screencast series:
> Chapter IV - Trombones & Tuba



Mahler 2 in the 2nd trombone!


----------



## Pedro Camacho (Oct 17, 2016)

*Talking about Intonation.*
One of the things I looked forward the most in a Brass library (more than any library) is intonation of each note considering the harmony being played.

The best brass ensemble is not just an ensemble that sounds great but one that tunes itself the best according to just intonation depending on the harmony being played. It requires a TON of experience for the players to not only play the right notes but also to use the correct intonation depending on the context of the music.

The basic level intonation for a library is to use a *JUST intonation for CHORDS keeping* the EQUAL intonation for melodies and for situations where piano is being used.







I would love if I could have a CC and/or a KS to manually assign the following basic intonations (used in 99% of day to day situations):

fifth (+2)
Major third (-14)
Minor third (+16)
Minor dom 7th (-31)
Major 7th (-12)
This video will help everyone understand Just and Equal intonation for Chords:


This becomes more and more audible when you get long chords.
Berlin Brass, since it has all players separately sampled, has a unique opportunity to do this.


I hope this becomes a reality soon, though scripting.

On another level (maybe in the future) we can even expand this and get the PYTHAGOREAN intonation for melodies.



But if we get the just intonation only I will be a happy composer already.

Using EQUAL intonation as currently all libraries work, sounds a bit like an amateur orchestra, no matter how good the samples are.

SO, please Hendrik and Orchestral Tools, think about this soon!


----------



## desert (Oct 17, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> Very nice. With this, I think think we finally enter the age of soaring solos being written for solo trombone with sampled instruments.
> 
> Also, it probably would have been best to do the feature on capsule that's in the second half in one of the earlier videos. Would have done a lot to address the fears people had about the library being inflexible and stiff with switching articulations. The examples for the Bass Trombone and Tuba are lackluster, too; both are bass instruments, but the demoing shows them off almost exclusively in the octave around middle C, and for the bass trombone legato demonstration a lot of it wasn't even played legato- you can see his hands and the kontakt interface releasing the notes before the transitions.


Yes, totally agree. The capsule is a product on it's own that should be marketed with the Brass series. It's amazing what it's capable of simulating


----------



## wpc982 (Oct 17, 2016)

Pedro Camacho said:


> *Talking about Intonation.*
> 
> The basic level intonation for a library is to use a *JUST intonation for CHORDS keeping* the EQUAL intonation for melodies and for situations where piano is being used.
> 
> ...



I'm certainly with you as far as allowing for JI. Not sure some of your details are quite right, and not sure that having baked-in intonation is necessary. Pitch wheel works fine, for the most part, though 'bending' a reverb while setting a new pitch is an ever present problem. The 7th of a dominant seventh, PLEASE, should NOT be from the harmonic series of the dominant. It works just fine as the fourth of the tonic. So instead of -12 cents (incorrect in any system), it should be -2 cents.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 17, 2016)

As for the intonation, imo this isn't anything that OT can do since the possibilities are endless. Each chord you play (depending on how you use harmony) can necessitate changes in intonation. Then when you hit something atonal, equal tempered intonation in necessary. It's extremely complex. Neither the samples nor the sampler (Kontakt) don't have the technology to do this. Some live players do this to some extent when playing, but that's a totally different story.

And unless all of your instruments follow this intonation, your brass would then be out of tune with your strings and so on. This is a situation that could be dealt with only at the daw level.


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 17, 2016)

Pedro Camacho said:


> *Talking about Intonation.*
> One of the things I looked forward the most in a Brass library (more than any library) is intonation of each note considering the harmony being played.
> 
> The best brass ensemble is not just an ensemble that sounds great but one that tunes itself the best according to just intonation depending on the harmony being played. It requires a TON of experience for the players to not only play the right notes but also to use the correct intonation depending on the context of the music.
> ...



Here's a video for idiots like me, root in tune, raise the 5th, lower the 3rd:


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 17, 2016)

Trombones and Tuba are excellent! Those gliss arts will be very useful. So nice to have at least one developer that really knows instruments!


----------



## Pedro Camacho (Oct 17, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Here's a video for idiots like me, root in tune, raise the 5th, lower the 3rd:




Perfect


----------



## benatural (Oct 17, 2016)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> Here it is, the last chapter of the Berlin Brass screencast series:
> Chapter IV - Trombones & Tuba



Awesome! Thanks


----------



## markleake (Oct 17, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> As for the intonation, imo this isn't anything that OT can do since the possibilities are endless. Each chord you play (depending on how you use harmony) can necessitate changes in intonation. Then when you hit something atonal, equal tempered intonation in necessary. It's extremely complex. Neither the samples nor the sampler (Kontakt) don't have the technology to do this. Some live players do this to some extent when playing, but that's a totally different story.
> 
> And unless all of your instruments follow this intonation, your brass would then be out of tune with your strings and so on. This is a situation that could be dealt with only at the daw level.


I'm really not the best with music theory, but have been learning an instrument where the temperament plays an important role (pipe organ) in certain eras of the music, given it is an older instrument.

My understanding is that if you just set a particular blanket temperament, it will make some chords sound good but others bad. This is what some instruments allow you to do (in the digital realm I mean), and so long as you are playing a piece that is written for that temperament, it works well. Although to my western tuned ear, it can often sound odd.

If you could set your DAW to adjust temperament or micro tuning of individual notes when it identifies specific chords on a particular track, then this would somewhat solve that problem I think. And maybe to keep all instruments in tune, the DAW would do it for all tracks... although in practice I'm not sure if that would be very realistic?

Anyway, I agree, to solve this problem, I'd think the DAW would need to be managing the tuning rather than Kontakt / the individual instrument. And I guess Kontakt plus the instrument would need to be enabled to do what the DAW is telling it also.

Back on topic... these brass do sound very nice.  Those glissando sound great. Is the dynamic range in the longs/legato going to be enough though? It looked to me like you needed to use other (short) articulations to get the more loud brassy sounds. I guess they are keeping it realistic in terms of limiting it to what real players can play?


----------



## tmm (Oct 17, 2016)

I should not have listened to this... now I'm hooked


----------



## rottoy (Oct 17, 2016)

tmm said:


> I should not have listened to this... now I'm hooked


My sentiments exactly.


----------



## Carbs (Oct 17, 2016)

Dimension Brass inside of ViPro would probably get you there (just intonation) if you felt like programming like a mofo. In fact ViPro is so powerful that whenever I open it up my eyes glaze over and I stare through the computer screen until I come to my senses and open a Kontakt instrument .

Edit: Whoops - didn't realize this was a commercial thread so my apologies for bringing up a competitor. Just thought it was worth mentioning with all the tuning talk. 

On topic: I've decided I'm going to buy this library. Seems to have a lot to offer and I am of the belief that one can't have too many options in the studio!


----------



## desert (Oct 17, 2016)

I just purchased it. I'm looking forward to the booklet


----------



## pdub (Oct 17, 2016)

Pre-ordered! Love the Brass in Metropolis Ark.


----------



## Anthony N.Putson (Oct 18, 2016)

Last day of the intro price and i simply can't afford ...worse still, that regular price makes it even worse! The Euro/Pound rate isn't really helping matters at the moment...


----------



## Lassi Tani (Oct 18, 2016)

Anthony N.Putson said:


> Last day of the intro price and i simply can't afford ...worse still, that regular price makes it even worse! The Euro/Pound rate isn't really helping matters at the moment...



Take a loan .

I pre-ordered it too, I love, what I'm hearing. I've been putting money aside from the beginning of this year just for Berlin Brass :D. But no black friday purchases for me.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Oct 18, 2016)

Sounds absolutely amazing. Best trombone/tuba sound I have ever heard in samples. Haven't had much time to check out the rest of it TBH, just a few quick snippets but it was enough to pre-order before hearing this. You guys just keep releasing amazing products.


----------



## Anthony N.Putson (Oct 18, 2016)

f**k it! Let's do it...


----------



## Anthony N.Putson (Oct 18, 2016)

Trigger pulled....


----------



## Anthony N.Putson (Oct 18, 2016)

My credit card is interest free on purchases for 25 months....(please get projects in as soon as possible!!!!!)


----------



## Tatu (Oct 18, 2016)

God dammit...


----------



## mac (Oct 18, 2016)

Once again, sounds brilliant. Is there _any_ chance of auto divisi being added in the future?


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 18, 2016)

Sold my dog to the Chinese restaurent down the street. BB here we come!


----------



## OT_Tobias (Oct 18, 2016)

Poor woof... though I admit that I like Chinese food, so maybe I can have him for dinner...


----------



## wbacer (Oct 18, 2016)

Say it isn't so, poor doggie. 
Well at least with Berlin Trumpets you can now play taps at the funeral.


----------



## HaidenDvim (Oct 18, 2016)

Woot, Order complete! Can not wait to write something with this brass. Thanks OT. Keep up the awesome work, really looking forward to the Mutes and Extended Brass Instruments!


----------



## NoamL (Oct 18, 2016)

When you realize there's only 2 hours left in the preorder:



Glad I got there in time!


----------



## 5Lives (Oct 18, 2016)

Why only two hours left? When does it end?


----------



## desert (Oct 18, 2016)

NoamL said:


> When you realize there's only 2 hours left in the preorder:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad I got there in time!




Happy you purchased it! Looking forward to hearing you midi mock ups


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 18, 2016)

5Lives said:


> Why only two hours left? When does it end?


Preorder price ends on release date which is the 19th October.


----------



## NoamL (Oct 18, 2016)

5Lives said:


> Why only two hours left? When does it end?



it's 12:30 AM in Berlin. But looks like the deal is still up  maybe until the end of the 19th in the USA?



desert said:


> Happy you purchased it! Looking forward to hearing you midi mock ups



Thank you!


----------



## 5Lives (Oct 18, 2016)

Hopefully lasts until later tonight!


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Oct 18, 2016)

Dame Brasstards blowing your Pre-order Horn around the place. Just wait for them to throw us another Bone, a Tuba would hurt


----------



## Gabriel Oliveira (Oct 18, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> This isn't the off-topic section and I would say for the benefit of everyone on this forum, this thread and the commercial section shouldn't become a mouthpiece for people to make cheap political swipes.



+1 please


----------



## rottoy (Oct 18, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> On the scale of scandals, I don't really rate alpha male horniness on the same scale as "pay-to-play" access to the President provided by Clinton, organising mass violence targeted towards Republicans, and beginning a genocide in Yemen by providing arms and chemical weapons precursors to the Saudis. But that's just me.
> 
> This isn't the off-topic section and I would say for the benefit of everyone on this forum, this thread and the commercial section shouldn't become a mouthpiece for people to make cheap political swipes. If people start doing this, you can expect a lot of other people to start making responses along the lines of what I put above and the whole forum will degenerate. Off-topic exists for a reason.


Hey, "horniness" is definitely on-topic.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 18, 2016)

Been edited now. 
Back on topic - Excited to get hands on this Library. Expectations high.


----------



## TintoL (Oct 18, 2016)

Holy crap this sounds like real brass. Debating between other brass libraries is futile. Sounds so real.....


----------



## prodigalson (Oct 18, 2016)

Aoiichi said:


> On the scale of scandals, I don't really rate alpha male horniness on the same scale as "pay-to-play" access to the President provided by Clinton, organising mass violence targeted towards Republicans, and beginning a genocide in Yemen by providing arms and chemical weapons precursors to the Saudis. But that's just me.
> 
> This isn't the off-topic section and I would say for the benefit of everyone on this forum, this thread and the commercial section shouldn't become a mouthpiece for people to make cheap political swipes. If people start doing this, you can expect a lot of other people to start making responses along the lines of what I put above and the whole forum will degenerate. Off-topic exists for a reason.



Translation: "I'm going to make an ad hoc cheap political swipe but then NOONE ELSE CAN MAKE AN AD HOC POLITICAL SWIPE. And if they do, they're the ones making the commercial section a mouthpiece for cheap political swipes, not me. Also, if YOU make a political swipe, then everyone else that agrees with me will make a political swipe and then the degeneration of the discourse will be YOUR FAULT, not the fault of those of us who made the original cheap political swipe. Those damn liberals, always responding to cheap political swipes and causing the degeneration of our political discourse."

OK and now back on topic!


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Oct 18, 2016)

I've been working on a Funeral March for Brass choir recently and was using HB which simple couldn't hold a candle to what Berlin Brass could achieved through part writing and it's wealth of individually sampled instruments, and for my ears the best sounding collection of Brass samples captured to date, and certainly next gen. What I'm interested in seeing now is what sort of memory footprint would be required with all individual instruments loaded with the normal articulations + legato and maybe 2 mics. I guess we'll find out soon enough when the first users start their new journey.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 18, 2016)

...my bandwidth is ready...


----------



## Tatu (Oct 18, 2016)

Pre-order prize still going.. *takes his credit card* ... *resists* ..

EDIT:
(Did not resist)


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 18, 2016)

Just realised, there's no Tuba a1 ensemble. Damn it! 


Yes, I do need a little lie down.


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Oct 18, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> ...my bandwidth is ready...



Envious !! Mine's not, incredible slow speeds in my area. I reckon I could get on a plane and fly over, hire a car and drive to OT's head office and take a suitcase full of cdr's and take my time copying it, then have a couple of weeks holidays and come back home and still be waiting


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 19, 2016)

Tatu said:


> Pre-order prize still going.. *takes his credit card* ... *resists* ..
> 
> EDIT:
> (Did not resist)


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig (Oct 19, 2016)

And now we wait...


----------



## OrchestralTools (Oct 19, 2016)

Hey Folks,

Berlin Brass has been released!
Everyone who has purchased our latest Collection in the pre-order will get a mail containing the download link.
Have fun composing and enjoy Berlin Brass!


----------



## Tatu (Oct 19, 2016)

Just received my downloads. Will be a happy evening!


----------



## JohnRosso (Oct 19, 2016)

Thanks, now we are on our two days downloading period


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig (Oct 19, 2016)

Why won't this thing go any faster?!? Thanks OBAMA! :D


----------



## Carbs (Oct 19, 2016)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey Folks,
> 
> Berlin Brass has been released!
> Everyone who has purchased our latest Collection in the pre-order will get a mail containing the download link.
> Have fun composing and enjoy Berlin Brass!



Nice! Been checking my email all morning, lol. This is definitely a huge download, my only concern is that I'm unable to download onto an internal drive like you guys recommend. Currently I'm downloading to an external USB 3.0 drive....keeping my fingers crossed!


----------



## C-Wave (Oct 19, 2016)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Why won't this thing go any faster?!? Thanks OBAMA! :D


I think you should thank OT's IT Manager first


----------



## dcoscina (Oct 19, 2016)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Why won't this thing go any faster?!? Thanks OBAMA! :D


puleazzzzzeee. When I downloaded Spectrasonics' KEYSCAPE, my DL speed was like 2mbps even though my internet is capable of 15mbps. It took literally ALL DAY. I find OT and SF downloader much faster by comparison. 

I know you are eager to start working with the library but it could be worse.


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig (Oct 19, 2016)

C-Wave said:


> I think you should thank OT's IT Manager first



I'm beyond happy with my download speed 

You should probably delete your Connect screen grab - or at least edit your download code out.


----------



## C-Wave (Oct 19, 2016)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> I'm beyond happy with my download speed
> 
> You should probably delete your Connect screen grab - or at least edit your download code out.


Done!
Edit: I wasn't bragging about my speed, simply stating that the speed has nothing to do with US or Obanal.. I'm in Canada and still am getting the same speed


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig (Oct 19, 2016)

C-Wave said:


> I wasn't bragging about my speed, simply stating that the speed has nothing to do with US or Obanal.. I'm in Canada and still am getting the same speed



I know - I was making this joke. It's so damn hard to convey sarcasm in writing


----------



## C-Wave (Oct 19, 2016)

And thanks for the heads up earlier.


----------



## Vischebaste (Oct 19, 2016)

Can anyone confirm or deny that the "pause" button on Continuata really works without screwing up the download, or causing any corruption in the data? I wouldn't normally risk using it, but given that this download is so vast, it might be useful.


----------



## C-Wave (Oct 19, 2016)

Shouldn't be a problem..


----------



## dcoscina (Oct 19, 2016)

Vischebaste said:


> Can anyone confirm or deny that the "pause" button on Continuata really works without screwing up the download, or causing any corruption in the data? I wouldn't normally risk using it, but given that this download is so vast, it might be useful.


I've done it on a few occasions and it was fine


----------



## Vischebaste (Oct 19, 2016)

C-Wave said:


> Shouldn't be a problem..



Thanks C-Wave and dcosina.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 19, 2016)

Mine quit after 15 rar's. When relaunching, it picked up where it had left off.


----------



## Mihkel Zilmer (Oct 19, 2016)

I also had a crash, around part 6 or 7. 

After relaunching, it downloaded without any further problems from where it had left off, extracted and installed successfully. About to fire it up now!


----------



## TimCox (Oct 19, 2016)

I'm so excited about this library but I haven't had the time to start downloading; it's basically killing me


----------



## Carbs (Oct 19, 2016)

Currently on .rar 41 of 93 after 7 hours, seems to be going well so far. I did have to pause/resume after a freeze on .rar 1, but that hasn't happened again. I'm not hard wired (and my modem is on a different floor altogether) so I'm downloading at a much slower speed (30mbps) than I could be. Luckly I've had, and still have, a lot to do today - so the wait isn't hurting that bad, lol (hell, the meat I through in the crock pot won't even be ready for another 6 hours, and I'm starving ).


----------



## pdub (Oct 19, 2016)

All files were downloaded but the app is just hanging at installing. I've I've paused, quit and resumed. Same thing. I guess I can just unrar manually. Anyone else had this? Thanks


----------



## wbacer (Oct 19, 2016)

Same issue here. There appears to be a problem with part004.rar
After everything downloads and it begins to install, it re-downloads part004.rar and the install process restarts from the beginning. It appears to be caught in a loop. Have emailed OT support. Waiting for a reply.
Anyone been able to successfully download and install BB?


----------



## pdub (Oct 19, 2016)

Thanks for letting me know. I'm manually using UnRarX on a mac and it seems to be sorting it out. Almost done. I'll report back with results soon.


----------



## pdub (Oct 19, 2016)

Ok unraring it manually worked! Batch re-saving now!


----------



## JanR (Oct 19, 2016)

Playing with it right now, that clarity and sound!!! Im absolutely in love with this library <3


----------



## mac88104 (Oct 19, 2016)

Everything ok for me, I unpacked with winrar. The trumpet solo is incredible. The Horn solo a little below the trumpet imo but realistic in any situation and that's a very good point. I have to spend more time on other instruments.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 19, 2016)

Glad to hear that people are happy with the library on getting to play with it. Happy days. Excited for when my D/L finally finishes.


----------



## Reactor.UK (Oct 19, 2016)

The *pre-order price is still available* at the time of writing 3:38am GMT (20th October).


----------



## 5Lives (Oct 19, 2016)

Too soon to ask for reviews?


----------



## tack (Oct 19, 2016)

Really tired of Connect's crashing. Honestly, this is about as simple an app as anyone could write nowadays. It's not rocket science, yet I don't recall -- on either Windows 7 or a clean install of Windows 10 -- actually doing a successful install of any library from any vendor via Connect without problems.


----------



## The Darris (Oct 19, 2016)

5Lives said:


> Too soon to ask for reviews?


Still downloading it.  But I will be posting my review hopefully within a week.


----------



## 5Lives (Oct 19, 2016)

The Darris said:


> Still downloading it.  But I will be posting my review hopefully within a week.


Looking forward to it! Especially a comparison with that other brass library you recently reviewed


----------



## Anthony N.Putson (Oct 19, 2016)

its downloaded for me, but connect keeps crashing during the "installation" process so doing it manually now...


----------



## Carbs (Oct 19, 2016)

Anthony N.Putson said:


> its downloaded for me, but connect keeps crashing during the "installation" process so doing it manually now...



How far into the install would it get before crashing? I'm currently on rar 21 after a nice 16 hour download. So far so good but your guys experiences have me prepared for the worst, lol. 

I wonder if anybody has had a successful install without resorting to doing it manually.


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig (Oct 20, 2016)

I had one crash during downloading, but I never let Connect decompress and install the files. I decompressed the files manually without any trouble. From what others have written, the manual way is beginning to look like sound advice.


----------



## mac88104 (Oct 20, 2016)

The manual way worked well for me. And there is nothing more than extract files with winrar, sort the folders as in any other kontakt library, and batch resave.


----------



## Tatu (Oct 20, 2016)

Over here Connect crashed 5 or 6 times, but download continued fast and smooth after restart and everything installed without any issues (installed via Connect). Finally moved the stuff from my download location to a sample drive this morning, but I have some other stuff to do before I get to fool around with it.


----------



## Pedro Camacho (Oct 20, 2016)

all downloaded!!! (edit )
aaannnd installed!


----------



## Reactor.UK (Oct 20, 2016)

No issues from start to finish of downloading (albeit slow, though that's my internet). In the connect options I turn off download and install, then unzip with winrar.


----------



## Carbs (Oct 20, 2016)

Mine downloaded and installed without a hitch, I was fortunate enough that connect didn't give me any problems (I did not do the manual install). Regret not hardwiring into my modem but that's just me being dumb, lol. Currently moving the library onto my main sample drive after spending 20 minutes deciding which libraries to remove to make space hah.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 20, 2016)

Something happened to my DL on rar 15. Rebooted, and was fine and fast from there on. And the automatic installation worked here.


----------



## Purplepants (Oct 20, 2016)

I left mine downloading over night and it worked fine, no problems at all.......


----------



## mac88104 (Oct 20, 2016)

I tried to use and adjust the close mics but not really convinced with that for this moment. After that depends on what one or another wants to hear.


----------



## FriFlo (Oct 20, 2016)

mac88104 said:


> Very good overall sound. To me, some instruments appears to be a little flat/away due to the natural reverb of the Teldex, but I quickly gain an organic and detailed sound (a little bit like the Sample Modeling one) using the convolution effect of kontakt and increasing the dry sound of 5 to 10 db. There are surely much better ways to reach that but it is a first approach. I also increased the volume of some instruments.


You are using a convolution reverb on Berlin Brass? Why? The whole point of this ambient library is, that you won't have to ... And what would make the library sound closer by using a convo reverb? Isn't it just the other way around?


----------



## FriFlo (Oct 20, 2016)

mac88104 said:


> I tried to use and adjust the close mics but not really convinced with that for this moment. After that depends on what one or another wants to hear.


When You are using close (or rather ORTF mainly, as I would advice you to), make sure you pan the instruments. Otherwise, all brass will be centered. I would however make use of the tree mic, if what you want is a natural orchestral brass sound with the brass coming from behind the strings and woodwinds. Add some (panned) close mics to get it more definition and a little algorithmic reverb of the right kind. All close and ORTF mics have to be panned!


----------



## mac88104 (Oct 20, 2016)

Ok thank you very much for your advice, I will try that.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 20, 2016)

OT should state right in the email, that the download code is the same as the serial number, needed to activate the library in the NI control center!


----------



## OT_Tobias (Oct 20, 2016)

Hi Jamwerks,
it does say so in the Installation Guide, which is linked directly in the download email.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 20, 2016)

OT_Tobias said:


> Hi Jamwerks,
> it does say so in the Installation Guide, which is linked directly in the download email.


Thanks Tobias, yes I saw that there. Instead of us having to go look for that info in the guide, when giving us the code (in the original email), why not just say what that code is?

"The download code for Continuata is the same as the activation code in the NI service center."

You'd save some of us 5 minutes, and you'll save time on future support requests. Just something to take into consideration...


----------



## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Oct 20, 2016)

Carbs said:


> Mine downloaded and installed without a hitch, I was fortunate enough that connect didn't give me any problems (I did not do the manual install). Regret not hardwiring into my modem but that's just me being dumb, lol. Currently moving the library onto my main sample drive after spending 20 minutes deciding which libraries to remove to make space hah.



Ditto. Ten hours with no crashes or issues on Windows 10. Automatic install went fine as well.


----------



## OT_Tobias (Oct 20, 2016)

jamwerks: I did that previously. The result was that no one read the rest of the Installation Guide and there were tons of emails like "How do I add the library to the Service Center" 
But I changed the wording so it should be clearer for new purchases.


----------



## rottoy (Oct 20, 2016)

OT_Tobias said:


> jamwerks: I did that previously. The result was that no one read the rest of the Installation Guide and there were tons of emails like "How do I add the library to the Service Center"
> But I changed the wording so it should be clearer for new purchases.


Just put in a post-scriptum; "Here's the download code which is also the serial to activate the library in Kontakt.
Now go read the Installation Guide or you'll violate the EULA! Germans do not forget, they do not forgive."


----------



## OT_Tobias (Oct 20, 2016)

that's also a nice idea, will consider that for the next collection 
Actually now it says ".... download code (which also is your serial number)...


----------



## TimCox (Oct 20, 2016)

About 16% done right now, seems to be going pretty quick given the size.

I did spend about an hour clearing space off my hard drive only to discover most of the space was from an unneeded duplicate of Hollywood orchestra


----------



## Tatu (Oct 20, 2016)

Puuuuuhh...


----------



## OleJoergensen (Oct 20, 2016)

Tatu said:


> Puuuuuhh... QUOTE]
> Looks great
> A lot of tracks!


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 20, 2016)

Tatu said:


> Puuuuuhh...


Looks like my "honey-do list" from the wifey.


----------



## Lassi Tani (Oct 20, 2016)

Still downloading, 1Mps speed, it was 15Mps before. 93% done. Hope you guys post music made with Berlin Brass while I'm still downloading


----------



## Adrian Roston (Oct 20, 2016)

Is it just me, or does the tenor trombone only go up to D? Eb, E, and F are not only possible but in symphonic literature. Or am I having a problem with my installation maybe??


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 20, 2016)

On one of the videos, he talked about stretching up and down the instrument ranges.


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 20, 2016)

Adrian Roston said:


> Is it just me, or does the tenor trombone only go up to D? Eb, E, and F are not only possible but in symphonic literature. Or am I having a problem with my installation maybe??


Looks like from the video it goes from low Bb to high Bb above middle C.


----------



## NoamL (Oct 20, 2016)

Tatu said:


> Puuuuuhh...


----------



## JeremyWiebe (Oct 20, 2016)

Still downloading. Seems to be going at a steady 10 Mbps. On rar 41 after about 18 hours.


----------



## meradium (Oct 21, 2016)

It's remarkably quiet here... Is everybody so busy writing fantastic new music with this thing, or are you also like me coping with the space demand? 

Installation went very smooth here on my Mac with Connect. No crashing whatsoever. And I used an external drive - well, I simply had to for the time being.

Now in the process of sorting out my old libraries and backing up everything.

What a time consuming task... So much looking forward to give it a test ride!


----------



## NoamL (Oct 21, 2016)

The library is gorgeous... but I have to go to WORK! 

*https://www.dropbox.com/s/d9kckxfj4ryd10l/First%20Try%20With%20Berlin%20Brass.wav?dl=0*


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 21, 2016)

NoamL said:


> The library is gorgeous... but I have to go to WORK!
> 
> *https://www.dropbox.com/s/d9kckxfj4ryd10l/First%20Try%20With%20Berlin%20Brass.wav?dl=0*


Is that the Cinesamples' room tone or BB?


----------



## NoamL (Oct 21, 2016)

BB - close 1 + tree + srnd


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 21, 2016)

NoamL said:


> BB - close 1 + tree + srnd


You can definitely hear Teldex then, and even similar clicks and taps as the Sony Sound Stage but a little brighter.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Oct 21, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> You can definitely hear Teldex then, and even similar clicks and taps as the Sony Sound Stage but a little brighter.



And what does that mean then for you? :D Good or bad? Just curious. The Example what NoamL posted sounds really nice. Looking forward to get them. Did you considered buying BB?


----------



## Rodney Money (Oct 21, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> And what does that mean then for you? :D Good or bad? Just curious. The Example what NoamL posted sounds really nice. Looking forward to get them. Did you considered buying BB?


Good thing. To me, noise is beautiful.


----------



## wpc982 (Oct 21, 2016)

Sounds pretty good so far in the initial exploration. Whether we really need 6 different mic positions just so OT can say the library is gigantic may be questionable, thought there do seem to be subtle differences in the sound in the different positions. You get trumpets, horns, trombone, tuba. No mutes, no special effects.


----------



## wpc982 (Oct 21, 2016)

Adrian Roston said:


> Is it just me, or does the tenor trombone only go up to D? Eb, E, and F are not only possible but in symphonic literature. Or am I having a problem with my installation maybe??



Trombone 1, sus imm (which is also used in legato), has samples only up to Bb4, pitch-stretched up to D5.
Trombone 2, sus imm, has samples only up to Bb4, pitch-stretched another step up to C5. 

Unfortunately, because of how Capsule scripts seem to intercept every note, you can not do something simple like stretch the note up another step or so. Though it is possible if you eliminate the script and recreate the instrument with only the base samples, which is what I've done in the past for Berlin Strings.

In the same way, horn 1 only goes up to written A, sounding D5, with the same sample pitch-stretched up a full fourth (! sheesh I hear money talking to them very strongly .. can't afford to pay for false starts, we'll just pitch shift) .


----------



## jason.d (Oct 21, 2016)

NoamL said:


> The library is gorgeous... but I have to go to WORK!
> 
> *https://www.dropbox.com/s/d9kckxfj4ryd10l/First%20Try%20With%20Berlin%20Brass.wav?dl=0*



Is that a skyfall cue I'm hearing? 

Sounds absolutely beautiful!


----------



## NoamL (Oct 21, 2016)

Yes it's one of a few cues I really want to hear (or mock up myself!) with this library to learn the ropes.

Voluntary Retirement (low brass and strings) - Thomas Newman - _Skyfall_
The Axiom (brass & orchestra) - Thomas Newman - _WALL-E_
Hogwarts Forever (horn quartet) - John Williams - _Harry Potter And The Sorcerer's Stone_
Quidditch (brass 4331) - John Williams - _Harry Potter And The Sorcerer's Stone_
Canzon septimi toni No.2 - Giovanni Gabrieli - _Sacrae Symphoniae_
Won't have time for a while though!


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 21, 2016)

Just chuck in my thoughts on the d/l and install. Continuata not worked (though it did successfully manage to decimate my D/L quota by repeatedly downloading corrupt/incomplete zip files) and now having to do everything manually as install repeatedly hangs (app crashes before even half way through install). Very frustrating as I've been time poor the last week so in theory an automated install would have been very handy. Result = haven't even finished the install. Should get on top of it today and finally get to play.

As a consequence, no comments on library yet.

Never had this difficulty with Continuata before though.

Thanks NoamL for your early posts/experience.


----------



## NoamL (Oct 21, 2016)

="Aoiichi said:


> i.e. the notes you've input are different lengths



Correct - I just put 10 minutes into it over breakfast.



Aoiichi said:


> Hearing a couple of complaints around that although there's no or little audible phasing, the library has VERY noticeable bumps between dynamic layers, especially on the trombones.



Can't say anything about this until I explore the library much more than I did yesterday and this morning. But considering that my thoughts will be a combination of praise and criticism it'll probably be more appropriate for the Sample forum 

Just the facts for now - based on reading the manual last night: the Sus Soft, Sus Immediate, and Legato patches, the horns have 4 layers and the rest of the brass have 3; likewise for the short articulations except the section leaders often have 4 layers. The auxiliary articulations e.g. trills, swells, repetitions, triplets, crescendoes are 2 layers (mf/ff) as are the Sustain Accented patches.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 21, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Correct - I just put 10 minutes into it over breakfast.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't say anything about this until I explore the library much more than I did yesterday and this morning. But considering that my thoughts will be a combination of praise and criticism it'll probably be more appropriate for the Sample forum


Hell's horses man! Step away from the library and put down the MIDI controller place your hands on your head and nobody gets hurt. At least long enough to eat breakfast in peace.


----------



## NoamL (Oct 21, 2016)

Also the different instruments of each section have different layers - this will explain it more clearly -

Sus Immediate
Hn I *pp - p - mf - ff*
Hn II *pp - p - mf - ff*
Hn III *pp - mp - f - ff*
Hn IV *pp - mp - f - ff
*
It's like that throughout the library which makes me wonder how transferring MIDI from e.g. Hn I to Hn 3 will work, do the layers fade in at different CC1 values so that CC1 is effecitvely universal across the section? Don't know yet.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 21, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Also the different instruments of each section have different layers - this will explain it more clearly -
> 
> Sus Immediate
> Hn I *pp - p - mf - ff*
> ...


Good question but conceptually that could be quite handy. In practice, not sure. Yet.


----------



## JeremyWiebe (Oct 21, 2016)

NoamL said:


> The library is gorgeous... but I have to go to WORK!
> 
> *https://www.dropbox.com/s/d9kckxfj4ryd10l/First%20Try%20With%20Berlin%20Brass.wav?dl=0*



Exactly the cue I wanted to test it out with! Sounds good.


----------



## Thorsten Meyer (Oct 22, 2016)

wow that is a download bbr_main_collection_samples.part044 done and still need to get to bbr_main_collection_samples.part093


----------



## meradium (Oct 22, 2016)

Is it just me or is this library a real memory hog? If I'm not mistaken the woodwinds have a comparable number of RRs. However, whereas a typical BBW multi with *only* the shorts loaded consumes roughly 45MB of RAM on my system each comparable BB patch eats up a whopping 250+ MB ... (Short stack., long stack, short port, long port)

Multiply this with the number of individual instruments and a 32GB machine starts to get into trouble when not only loading this biggie...

Any thoughts on this? Is it possible that the patches for some reason load more of the samples into RAM than usual? 

BTW: There is only a single mic position loaded... The tree.

UPDATE: looks like it has something to do with the time machine... Loading only a staccato articulation on its own takes 3MB. Put the same into a Multi-Patch and it becomes 145MB...


----------



## wpc982 (Oct 22, 2016)

meradium said:


> Is it just me or is this library a real memory hog? If I'm not mistaken the woodwinds have a comparable number of RRs. However, whereas a typical BBW multi with *only* the shorts loaded consumes roughly 45MB of RAM on my system each comparable BB patch eats up a whopping 250+ MB ... (Short stack., long stack, short port, long port)
> 
> Multiply this with the number of individual instruments and a 32GB machine starts to get into trouble when not only loading this biggie...
> 
> ...



The only very large part is the legato instrument ... and that should not be part of a "shorts" multi. Are you sure you haven't included the legato somehow?


----------



## NoamL (Oct 22, 2016)

Go into the mixer menu and click "purge legato" - the default instrument multis have legato transitions attached to the first sustain articulation, so even if you replace that articulation, the legato transitions will still be loaded into memory.

I am able to load the staccato, staccatissimo, marcato, short marcato, 16th-rep, and playable runs patches for all 11 instruments in about 14 GB. That's one mic position btw.


----------



## meradium (Oct 22, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Go into the mixer menu and click "purge legato" - the default instrument multis have legato transitions attached to the first sustain articulation, so even if you replace that articulation, the legato transitions will still be loaded into memory.
> 
> I am able to load the staccato, staccatissimo, marcato, short marcato, 16th-rep, and playable runs patches for all 11 instruments in about 14 GB. That's one mic position btw.



Will be trying this right away... Well, jap... That reduces the RAM quoted on the patch. But only if you reload the entire instance afterwards... Freed up considerable RAM here in VEP6. But only after reloading. Looks like a bug...


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 22, 2016)

Depends greatly on what your buffer is set at in Kontakt. I'm using a conservative 12mb (samples are on ssd's), and having the entire library loaded (except dynamic patches, and TM patches) and it's using about 7.5gb of ram.


----------



## meradium (Oct 22, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> Depends greatly on what your buffer is set at in Kontakt. I'm using a conservative 12mb (samples are on ssd's), and having the entire library loaded (except dynamic patches, and TM patches) and it's using about 7.5gb of ram.



Really? What system are you running it on? Buffer is set to 6kb. No dynamic patches or TM here as well... But I'm easily burning through double that amount of RAM...


----------



## White Fire (Oct 24, 2016)

The overall sound of this library is great. However, I'm trying to load certain articulations into the multi patches such as trombone glissandi and playable legato but cant seem to. Is there a way that I can do this? this is my first OT library.


----------



## jamwerks (Oct 24, 2016)

meradium said:


> Really? What system are you running it on? Buffer is set to 6kb. No dynamic patches or TM here as well... But I'm easily burning through double that amount of RAM...


Do you have 2 or more mic's open. I should have specified that I'm using just the mains!



White Fire said:


> The overall sound of this library is great. However, I'm trying to load certain articulations into the multi patches such as trombone glissandi and playable legato but cant seem to. Is there a way that I can do this? this is my first OT library.


Seems there are some arts that aren't currently going in multi slots.


----------



## White Fire (Oct 24, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> Seems there are some arts that aren't currently going in multi slots.


Ah, that's a shame. Thanks for answering!


----------



## OT_Tobias (Oct 24, 2016)

Hey folks,

thanks a lot for your feedback (good AND bad) about Berlin Brass!
Your feedback has been really invaluable in the past and continues to be so for this new collection.

We have been able to reproduce a number of issues mentioned in this thread, also thanks for everyone who sent us emails! Keep them coming!
All found issues have been meticulously catalogued and will of course be fixed.

We have heard your feedback about the velocity layer crossfades. Brass has a GIANT range of timbre with very large changes between layers. We did our best to allow both for quiet and for really loud passages. We did a lot of work on the crossfades, but as you can imagine, blending between so different layers is hard. Recording more layers would introduce phasing issues, not to even speak of making BBR even larger  Still - we have been looking at crossfades and our team will look at implementing a bunch of improvements per your feedback.
We will roll out these improvements together with fixes for all reported issues soon in a Hotfix update!

I just wanted to let you know that we are always happy to hear feedback and really want to make BBR the perfect tool for all your brass needs! So keep your observations coming. No email is ignored and all suggestions wander in a big wishlist box to be considered for updates. Adjustable playable ranges, introduced with BBR, for example were one such user request.

all the best!

the whole OT Team!


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig (Oct 24, 2016)

... and THAT folks, is how you run a sample library company. Honesty and clear communication. OT has always been stellar at this, and I have zero regrets of having put my eggs in that particular basket.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Oct 24, 2016)

Bravo, Orchestral Tools ! That's great to hear.


----------



## synergy543 (Oct 24, 2016)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> ... and THAT folks, is how you run a sample library company. Honesty and clear communication. OT has always been stellar at this, and I have zero regrets of having put my eggs in that particular basket.


+1
Tobias & team, great to hear such a positive attitude and forward-looking response. 
And thank you for putting together an absolutely amazing sounding library!


----------



## noxtenebrae17 (Oct 24, 2016)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> ... and THAT folks, is how you run a sample library company. Honesty and clear communication. OT has always been stellar at this, and I have zero regrets of having put my eggs in that particular basket.



Agreed. Reported a few sample issues a few days ago and got an e-mail back confirming them. 

Thank you OT for the wonderful support. This library is truly a gem.


----------



## Anthony N.Putson (Oct 24, 2016)

Nice one Tobias. Any fixes improvements will always be appreciated...


----------



## FriFlo (Oct 25, 2016)

If I read comments like "there used to be a much more thorough quality control on sample libraries" I cannot help but wonder, which libraries those people are talking about? From the Akai/EMU-days?
Seriously, there has never been such an amount of content with that much quality, as with the Berlin series! And remember what those tiny libraries cost 20 years ago! Yes, there are mistakes and bugs sometimes and one articulation or instrument may turn out better than the other one, but OT has always been dedicated to do free updates on those, as well - including newly recorded patches as with the Strings, where we got a totally new set of spiccatos on top of the existing ones and actually both of them work good on different context.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Nov 3, 2016)

Hi Guys,

Adam Hochstatter delivers a beautiful brass chorale, made with Berlin Brass.
Enjoy!



Tomorrow is the last chance to get Berlin Brass at an attractive *intro price* of 699€ + VAT.
The list price will be 799€+VAT.


----------



## Daniel F. (Nov 9, 2016)

First of congratulations to Orchestral Tools on another big release. I finally got the chance to test Berlin Brass out and I found it to be a very good library but I also found that it’s lacking in a few areas. Most of what I found (Crossfade problems, stuck notes, inconsistent articulations) have already been reported and I have no doubt that the bugs / inconsistencies will get fixed, especially if you look at OTs previous track record for updates.

Personally I’ve been waiting on Berlin Brass for many years now and I might have hyped up the library a little too much in my mind. I was hoping that it would fill 90% of my Brass needs at least for the more “normal” writing. What I mean by that is that I wasn’t expecting them to include 12hrns patches or the biggest brass section to ever have been recorded, but instead something I could use on a daily basis. In my opinion it’s close but not there yet.

I pretty much only have one major complaint, and this for me is a deal breaker and it’s not so easily fixed because it’s very rare for developers to do this, I feel like they should go back and record an FF or FFF layer for the sustains in all instrument. I know they have FF in the sustains but to be it doesn't sound like FF to me, sounds more like an F. Especially if you listen to some of the shorts compared to the sustains. The sustains really lack that brassiness that I want with my brass when you really push it. Right now it does the mellow stuff really well but the more loud brass stuff is really lacking. The brassiness in the beginning of the accented sustains is great but then it’s just an accent not the sustain itself.

I just wanted to give you my 2cents. Either way good job OT on great product and congratulations once again on finishing the main Berlin Orchestra series.


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Nov 9, 2016)

Daniel F. said:


> I feel like they should go back and record an FF or FFF layer for the sustains in all instrument. I know they have FF in the sustains but to be it doesn't sound like FF to me, sounds more like an F.


Totally agree with you on this point, and it's a shame when you consider the soft dynamic layers are beautiful and in a league of their own when compared to other libraries. I thought I'd be able to put HB into retirement but when I compare for example the legato solo horn in HB to any of the legato solo horn patches in BB at the aforementioned dynamic layers, it very noticeably lacking. As Daniel also mentioned the sustains are the same. If I want that extra dynamic layer I have to use HB still. It's the only thing that feels a little disappointing about an otherwise beautiful core library. I'd love to know OT's thought process behind this decision, is there going to be an upgrade path in the future or expansion that was intended for this ?? Would be great to get some feedback and clarity on this.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 9, 2016)

SymphonicSamples said:


> Totally agree with you on this point, and it's a shame when you consider the soft dynamic layers are beautiful and in a league of their own when compared to other libraries. I thought I'd be able to put HB into retirement but when I compare for example the legato solo horn in HB to any of the legato solo horn patches in BB at the aforementioned dynamic layers, it very noticeably lacking. As Daniel also mentioned the sustains are the same. If I want that extra dynamic layer I have to use HB still. It's the only thing that feels a little disappointing about an otherwise beautiful core library. I'd love to know OT's thought process behind this decision, is there going to be an upgrade path in the future or expansion that was intended for this ?? Would be great to get some feedback and clarity on this.



Interesting. I haven't bought BB yet but I am wondering how M Ark 1's Brass would work with BB? Recorded in same space by same people. Surely this could be an answer? Sorry if I am missing something as I don't own BB.


----------



## Daniel F. (Nov 9, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> Interesting. I haven't bought BB yet but I am wondering how M Ark 1's Brass would work with BB? Recorded in same space by same people. Surely this could be an answer? Sorry if I am missing something as I don't own BB.



MA1 is great. Sure it has a few flaws and bugs, but the tone of the brass is great. But it only has MF/F and FFF layers so doing xfade swells is not that great in the lower register. And if I were to do a 4 note chord swell with either the 9a horn patch or the 3a horn patch that would add up to way too many horn players. Also 3a horns don't have legato.

Same with Trumpets 4a great sound and power but no legato and doing a smaller chord with it would not be the sound I wanted most likely. I want to be able to hear each player play different notes and do the transitions from one chord to the next. Would be great to be able to do some John Williams type music with the solo trumpets as well which right now is pretty much impossible since it doesn't go above MF/F in sound. And I mean the more well known JW music Star Wars opening, Indiana Jones theme, Hook theme etc.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Nov 9, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> Interesting. I haven't bought BB yet but I am wondering how M Ark 1's Brass would work with BB? Recorded in same space by same people. Surely this could be an answer? Sorry if I am missing something as I don't own BB.



Yes, that is true, and the MA1 (bought it a while ago) has the Power in the FF Dynamics, Point is that there are only ensembles and different ensemble sizes (for instance Horns a3 and a9) so it doesn´t let you do part writing at those dynamic levels which sounds connvincing, but still that would be a way to add in those unison lines some extra meat.


----------



## jononotbono (Nov 9, 2016)

Sure. Perhaps an expansion is needed then? I haven't bought it yet so my opinions mean nothing. I shall now vanish into the night and get on with some music.


----------



## Daniel F. (Nov 9, 2016)

I don't think they will do an expansion (I hope not) and we shouldn't assume they would. It's a sad state of affair when we jump to the conclusion that this has to be a paid update / expansion. The only reason I tell you guys this is because I love the library and OT are the ones I want to support with my money because I feel like these guys are the "real deal" and I want want to get Berlin Brass very much, and probably will, but this is making me hesitate because it's a big flaw in my opinion. And from what I understand they want the feedback because they truly want to improve the product. They use it themselves so they see it as an investment. For example they went back and recorded fingered legato for BST and released it as an update. My thinking is since they are going to go back and record the same players with mutes they might as well grab some FFF layers as well.


----------



## Daniel F. (Nov 9, 2016)

Am I allowed to post examples in this thread? Berlin Brass is a great library and I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression that it's bad. Because it's not.


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Nov 9, 2016)

Agreed BB is a superb library for many many reasons, and rather forward thinking. If it didn't sounds so God dame beautiful as it does I wouldn't have posted my previous reply about dynamic layers, and more over given OT's open approach to costumers feedback, dedication and constant striving to make their products better, (and wait for it) , they actually do so which I can't say the same for some developers , it would otherwise fall on deaf ears.


----------



## JeremyWiebe (Nov 15, 2016)

To be honest, the lack of edge in the upper sus dynamics is not at all a deal breaker for me; it's even a positive, since most libraries don't capture that clear, pure tone at the high dynamic. But one's opinion may just come down to the style of music you're writing. If you want to churn out Zimmeresque "epic" music, then BB isn't the library for you. If you want to write Williamsesque music with intricate divisi parts, then BB is great.


----------



## JeremyWiebe (Nov 15, 2016)

And if we're going to get some bonus update content, I'd much rather see some more swells (especially in the pp-mp range). That would help compensate for the weakness of some of the crossfades. I'm sure they'll make some improvements to those as well, but unless they record different sus samples, the cake is already baked to a degree when it comes to the crossfades.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Nov 15, 2016)

JeremyWiebe said:


> To be honest, the lack of edge in the upper sus dynamics is not at all a deal breaker for me; it's even a positive, since most libraries don't capture that clear, pure tone at the high dynamic. But one's opinion may just come down to the style of music you're writing. If you want to churn out Zimmeresque "epic" music, then BB isn't the library for you. If you want to write Williamsesque music with intricate divisi parts, then BB is great.


Agree. I stated earlier somewhere that I didn't think the top dynamics were a problem dependent on what sort of music you were writing. Thought they worked well for orchestral compositions but if you wanted OTT epic for trailer or similar then you might struggle to get it to do what you want. It does do loud dynamics, just maybe not as loud as folk have come to expect in the blow off your trousers department. But whatever, I'm still loving this library. It's awesome.


----------



## Daniel F. (Nov 16, 2016)

JeremyWiebe said:


> To be honest, the lack of edge in the upper sus dynamics is not at all a deal breaker for me; it's even a positive, since most libraries don't capture that clear, pure tone at the high dynamic. But one's opinion may just come down to the style of music you're writing. If you want to churn out Zimmeresque "epic" music, then BB isn't the library for you. If you want to write Williamsesque music with intricate divisi parts, then BB is great.



I don't agree at all. You could definitely have both the softer edge of brass as well as the more brassy sound. But if you want to write Williamsesque music BB is not all that great for a lot of what John writes. For the softer side, as I've said before, it's great, but for something like Star Wars, Indiana Jones or much of his other music. He usually takes advantage of the range and timber of the brass. They already have swells iirc and I personally would rather they focus on the crossfades and dynamics of BB so that we can make our own swells. Not sure if the swells are pp--mp but they are pretty soft and you can always make them softer with the Vol. Range option and filter cutoff in CAPSULE.

Here's an example.
Love Pledge and the Arena from Star Wars


It's all fine up until the brass gets pushed a little bit more. At around 1:28 that's the highest dynamic that BB would be able to do, that's the FF layer in BB I would say. Listen to the brass stab at 1:50 BB would not be able to do that with the sustains. But once you want more power from your brass you're out of luck, what do you do then? If you listen to 3:20 where the brass is more powerful you would not be able to do that with BB from what I've tried/seen or heard. Maybe the short notes because they have some bite to them but not the long sustains.


----------



## FriFlo (Nov 16, 2016)

Daniel F. said:


> It's all fine up until the brass gets pushed a little bit more. At around 1:28 that's the highest dynamic that BB would be able to do, that's the FF layer in BB I would say. Listen to the brass stab at 1:50 BB would not be able to do that with the sustains. But once you want more power from your brass you're out of luck, what do you do then? If you listen to 3:20 where the brass is more powerful you would not be able to do that with BB from what I've tried/seen or heard. Maybe the short notes because they have some bite to them but not the long sustains.



You maybe sometimes cannot get the most powerful sounds (fff) out of the BB sus articulations, but you can get them from the recorded dynamics, short notes and medium notes (like marcato) which is how these dynamics happen to be applied in almost all orchestra literature. In this piece, there is still some headroom left, so it is intentionally little weaker than those articulations can be and I don't really see any lack of high powered brass in there ...

IMO, there are only very few examples (except for obvious omissions like mutes, which will come in the upcoming expansions) of things that cannot be done with BB. But you have to have the skills to both orchestrate and work with the samples in a proper way to make that happen. It is of course NOT an ensemble library, where you get a very powerful sound with just one patch. For hybrid style writing other libraries might be better and quicker to get good results. But for realistic orchestration, BB maybe the best choice around at the moment.


----------



## Daniel F. (Nov 16, 2016)

FriFlo said:


> You maybe sometimes cannot get the most powerful sounds (fff) out of the BB sus articulations, but you can get them from the recorded dynamics, short notes and medium notes (like marcato) which is how these dynamics happen to be applied in almost all orchestra literature. In this piece, there is still some headroom left, so it is intentionally little weaker than those articulations can be and I don't really see any lack of high powered brass in there ...
> 
> IMO, there are only very few examples (except for obvious omissions like mutes, which will come in the upcoming expansions) of things that cannot be done with BB. But you have to have the skills to both orchestrate and work with the samples in a proper way to make that happen. It is of course NOT an ensemble library, where you get a very powerful sound with just one patch. For hybrid style writing other libraries might be better and quicker to get good results. But for realistic orchestration, BB maybe the best choice around at the moment.




Yeah, I've heard your track before the orchestrations is very good and it's a good track. Did you EQ the brass at all? Because it sounds like you did a highshelf boost on most of the brass. I agree that the shorter articulations are pretty good for FF, a little bit inconsistent iirc but might be more realistic that way, but the shorts sound a lot more like what FF should sound like. Tho we are talking about the sustains.

If they name the highest dynamic layer of the marcatos FF and then the highest dynamic layer of the sustains FF I think that they should sound the same and have the same power, that's just what I think. And there's a lot of things you can't do with sustains. I don't want to write music and feel like it has to be written a special way just so that it fits the library, I rather want to have the freedom to write what I want. Try and do a sustained chord with the brass like the opening in Star Wars or just a brass sustain that's so common now a days in trailer music. If I do the star wars chord with the marcatos because I want the bite of the brass and it's not long enough I will have to raise the tempo of my music or I will have to stretch it in post those are not good options in my opinion.

Sure you can blame it on the library not being catered towards my kind of music and that's fine, but I'm just saying why I won't be buying it at the moment and what I find to be a problem with it. And from what OT have done previously I have the huge respect for them and feel like they will keep improving the library so I just wanted to say what I feel is a missing and hoping they will fix it.


----------



## FriFlo (Nov 16, 2016)

Daniel F. said:


> Yeah, I've heard your track before the orchestrations is very good and it's a good track. Did you EQ the brass at all? Because it sounds like you did a highshelf boost on most of the brass. I agree that the shorter articulations are pretty good for FF, a little bit inconsistent iirc but might be more realistic that way, but the shorts sound a lot more like what FF should sound like. Tho we are talking about the sustains.
> 
> If they name the highest dynamic layer of the marcatos FF and then the highest dynamic layer of the sustains FF I think that they should sound the same and have the same power, that's just what I think. And there's a lot of things you can't do with sustains. I don't want to write music and feel like it has to be written a special way just so that it fits the library, I rather want to have the freedom to write what I want. Try and do a sustained chord with the brass like the opening in Star Wars or just a brass sustain that's so common now a days in trailer music. If I do the star wars chord with the marcatos because I want the bite of the brass and it's not long enough I will have to raise the tempo of my music or I will have to stretch it in post those are not good options in my opinion.
> 
> Sure you can blame it on the library not being catered towards my kind of music and that's fine, but I'm just saying why I won't be buying it at the moment and what I find to be a problem with it. And from what OT have done previously I have the huge respect for them and feel like they will keep improving the library so I just wanted to say what I feel is a missing and hoping they will fix it.


Well, I think having the full range of any brass instrument in the legato/sustain patch comes always at the price of not so great sounding transitions between different layers. It seems to only work with libraries like sample modeling great. I am not trying to discredit your criticism in any way! Marcatos being to short is a problem that can happen, of course. Maybe a looped version of the marcato longs could be a solution. But with those two lengths of marcatos, i believe, you will rarely find a situation where none of both are fitting. Your example of the star wars main theme would be exactly right for the marcatos. For trailer stuff, as I said: BB might not always be the best library, because BB is crafted towards realistic orchestral simulation.
Regarding my piece: yes, I did some EQing on the stems and partly compression as well. But it is only some slight correction to make it sound more present on tablet speakers.  But all of that would be done similarly on a real recording. It is not a night and day difference. BB sounds very good out of the box already ...


----------



## Daniel F. (Nov 16, 2016)

FriFlo said:


> Well, I think having the full range of any brass instrument in the legato/sustain patch comes always at the price of not so great sounding transitions between different layers. It seems to only work with libraries like sample modeling great. I am not trying to discredit your criticism in any way! Marcatos being to short is a problem that can happen, of course. Maybe a looped version of the marcato longs could be a solution. But with those two lengths of marcatos, i believe, you will rarely find a situation where none of both are fitting. Your example of the star wars main theme would be exactly right for the marcatos. For trailer stuff, as I said: BB might not always be the best library, because BB is crafted towards realistic orchestral simulation.
> Regarding my piece: yes, I did some EQing on the stems and partly compression as well. But it is only some slight correction to make it sound more present on tablet speakers.  But all of that would be done similarly on a real recording. It is not a night and day difference. BB sounds very good out of the box already ...



I agree with you. The sound of BB is beautiful and it's a great library, one of the best for sure. Yes once you start crossfading between a layer that has a lot of brassiness compared to a more rounder layer you easily get that fake sound and can hear the transition from one to another. This is very prominent in Metropolis Ark but that library still does it's job very well and in that kind of music it's not that much of a problem. But in BB I would like to have the option at least and if someone don't like it you could just turn the layer off. Thanks to CAPSULE you get a lot of options for customizing as long as the samples are there. A looped version wouldn't be such a dumb idea if they can get it to sound alright. 

How would you handle this for example with BB currently?



The first short notes are not that hard to do but what about the chord at 0:11? That chord is too long for all the articulations that I know of except for the sustains. But since the sustains has such a different timber than the marcatos it's just going to sound odd jumping from marcato to sustain since they sound so different at FF.


----------



## FriFlo (Nov 16, 2016)

Well, yeah! Why not another layer of fff, which could be turned off. I certainly wouldn't mind that. But the library is already 180Gb compressed ... just saying ... 
In the Korngold example I am not sure if this couldn't be done with BB properly. Have you compared the marcato long? Is it really to short? I don't remember, because I did my piece in October and didn't do orchestral stuff since then ... If you listen closely to this by the way, you will notice it is actually kind of like a ffp followed by a swell, but not as pronounced, as usual. This is another point I forgot to mention: Brass players rarely play one long note at full power without any kind of "modulation" for the lack of a better word. And that is why you simply cannot fake all those medium length articulations like the marcatos with a sustain. Your music comes to life by using those. So, I believe, giving you just one dynamic layer mor might not please your needs as much as would think. I remember trying the sustains on my piece, but for the melody of the main theme I quickly noticed, the sustains were wrong for it, because they were missing that shape. Adding dynamic crossfading cannot really fake that with brass. A bit better with strings, but I still love the portatos, marteles etc in Berlin Strings very much for the very same reason ...


----------



## OleJoergensen (Aug 17, 2017)

Im happy about the beautiful tone of Berlin Brass. I recorded the Brass Chorale from Mahler's Urlicht.
I only used soft sustain, Tree+ close mic, a little compression and hall reverb. I should probably use several articulation to make it better. But here it is...


----------

