# Keto diet anyone?



## Daniel Petras (Jun 22, 2017)

Anyone here do Keto? I'm trying to get rid of my insulin spikes/crashes. Hopefully it will make me a better composer. Just bought coconut oil for the first time - smells okay I guess...


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## tack (Jun 22, 2017)

Yep. Since March 2016, apart from an extended period after Christmas where I (intentionally) fell off the wagon. Maybe for longer than I'd intended. Much longer.

As with most of the entirety of the field of nutrition, it's badly encumbered with magical thinking that it's hard to sort out fact from fiction, especially because much of the bullshit tends to be couched in scientific language. My favorite is the popular "n=1 experiment" which is basically "I did stuff and noticed stuff about myself" as if that counts for anything useful scientifically. If you read the keto subreddit you'll find every conceivable positive change being ascribed to keto by at least one person. Including curing cancer.

In fact, just a lifestyle change, including a healthy diet and especially shedding extra pounds is by itself enough to see positive benefits of all kinds. You don't necessarily need nutritional ketosis for that.

I'm not sure what your current diet looks like, but you may find that a _reduced_ carbohydrate diet will address your insulin issues, and it would be a lot easier to manage because, among other things, you can eat fruit. (In keto the only fruit you can get away with are certain berries, and even then only in certain amounts.) Often times just avoiding refined sugar will do wonders for managing insulin spikes and your blood glucose levels in general.

For me, keto works well for weight loss because it is remarkably effective at hunger management, and that's the only reason I do it. 48 hour fasts are trivial, and if I've been in ketosis for over 3-4 weeks, I can fast for longer without feeling miserable. I only eat once in the early evening after work, and I don't suffer from any mid-day low blood sugar crash. Not feeling excessively hungry means I can restrict my calorie intake to where it needs to be for a sufficient deficit to enable weight loss while not being miserable about it.

As for coconut oil, I think the only time I use it is when I make stir fries (sans rice of course) and it's pretty tasty.


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## Daniel Petras (Jun 22, 2017)

tack said:


> In fact, just a lifestyle change, including a healthy diet and especially shedding extra pounds is by itself enough to see positive benefits of all kinds. You don't necessarily need nutritional ketosis for that.


I like the idea of having a set of instructions to follow. Like having a teacher that assigns work, I'm able to get it done and move onto the next assignment. When it comes to things like diet and exercise, I don't want to be creative, I just want to have a set of rules that I can follow robotically, and put the creative energy into things I want to be good at.

Yes, I'm going for the reduced carbs diet. I've been really busy the past month and I just was eating too much crap (way too many carbs) and I really started to feel the crashes and lack of focus. Along with hearing from many that keto is great for having a consistent focus throughout the day, I'm somewhat familiar with the positive benefits it brings to your body. I remember a certain period during a keto phase that I tried and I just felt relaxed. I'm normally rushing myself trying to get to places and finish things as fast as possible and always beating myself up when things don't happen quickly. I doubt keto will fix this completely, but I think it could help.

For fruit I'm just doing avocados, at least to start out. I might try some berries later. I was eating mostly bananas before, but I think I'm going to drop them for the time being. Then I'm going for green veggies, meats of all sorts, poutly, not a big fan of fish, nuts, cheese, etc. One thing that I'm curious to know more about is grass fed meat, vs non and organic and all that. It really is a lot more pricey for the organic, grass-fed stuff, compared the normal. Although it's understandable that it makes a difference, the question is how much?

I've been looking into fasting, however I'm not sure if that is the best option with my lifestyle at this point. I'm riding my bike to work 5 or 6 times a week, so sometimes I can be biking for over an hour in a day. On top of that, I like to hit the gym (not so much lately). I can definitely see myself fasting if I didn't have to bike so much, but maybe things will change with the keto diet.


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## tack (Jun 22, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> When it comes to things like diet and exercise, I don't want to be creative, I just want to have a set of rules that I can follow robotically, and put the creative energy into things I want to be good at.


I hear you. Especially with exercise, I'm the same way. If I have a use-it-or-lose-it time slot, I'll go. If I'm left to my own devices to exercise when I want, my ass will find every reason to continue maintenance on the couch ass groove.



Sonorityscape said:


> I'm curious to know more about is grass fed meat, vs non and organic and all that. It really is a lot more pricey for the organic, grass-fed stuff, compared the normal. Although it's understandable that it makes a difference, the question is how much?


I personally tend to _avoid_ foods with an organic label. The evidence indicates it makes no material difference nutritionally, and the prices are higher -- often by a lot -- due to the typically lower yields of organic farming. I'll buy such foods when I see an obvious quality difference, but at least in my area, my experience is that quality differences are mainly a consequence of restocking timing. I could easily imagine the situation varying heavily by location though.

Oh, I also tried grass fed butter and blinded myself in a taste test. I couldn't tell the difference. My wallet appreciated that. 



Sonorityscape said:


> I've been looking into fasting, however I'm not sure if that is the best option with my lifestyle at this point. I'm riding my bike to work 5 or 6 times a week, so sometimes I can be biking for over an hour in a day.


Anecdotally, many people seem to be successful with intense exercise in a fasted state. But this only makes sense when you have a lot of excess body fat. Given you're not sure about it, no point in tempting fate.

And, as always, mind your electrolytes. But if you've gotten yourself into ketosis in the past and didn't feel miserable (avoiding the so-called "keto flu") then I'd guess it's probably the case that sufficient electrolytes aren't a problem for you.

The foods you listed are pretty keto friendly, except for bananas. (True, avocados are a fruit, and they're a keto staple.) Generally you want to restrict your net carb intake (total carbs minus fiber minus sugar alcohols) to around 20g, and you'll blow your wad entirely with 1 small banana. Don't forget about eggs. Very versatile, low carb choice. Also, beware certain nuts. Macadamia nuts: awesome (if pricey). Cashews: too many carbs for keto.

I find I need to be methodical, pay close attention to nutrition labels, and track everything going into my mouth, or else I end up taking in more carbs than I think I am, especially from vegetables because they're so easy to overlook. (And they _are_ easy to overlook, because who ever got fat from eating vegetables?) So I keep the net carbs to 20g per day, occasionally allowing an indulgence to 25g, and measure my blood ketones to ensure dietary decisions aren't affecting ketosis.

Now that I type it out, all that sounds like a lot of work to just avoid hunger during the real work of calorie restriction (which as I said for me is the primary goal). But there's also an element of "body hacking" that I kind of find appeals to my inner geek.

The strictness of keto has also forced me to be far more creative in the kitchen than I ever have been. Here's a Youtube channel with loads of interesting and often tasty keto friendly dishes to keep things varied and help avoid food boredom.

Good luck!


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## chimuelo (Jun 22, 2017)

Big Keto dieter.
But don't get fooled into eating more Beef.
Stay with organic meat as the carbs were removing toxins and antibiotics.
Now you'd be adding more that stay in your system.
I eat fresh fish 3 times a week, Deer and Elk once, lots of eggs and farm chickens from neighbors.
I'm in damn good shape as I took up daily weight lifting at a strong mans gym.
No machines here, lots of big strong guys and girls make me feel weak.
It's nice being the lame guy of the crowd.

But Keto is really healthy life style.
If you can work out or excercise 6 times a week and limit your carbs to anti oxidant greens, you'll dump pounds consistently.
You'll even appreciate a steak more.

I am fortunate to have the organic food capital 10 miles away.
Had Bison Steak for Fathers Day.
Local herd.
It was a serious reward.
Got a few bottles of wine from the winery since you have to bring your own.

Go Keto bro.
Your body will thank You within days.


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## Daniel Petras (Jun 23, 2017)

tack said:


> And, as always, mind your electrolytes. But if you've gotten yourself into ketosis in the past and didn't feel miserable (avoiding the so-called "keto flu") then I'd guess it's probably the case that sufficient electrolytes aren't a problem for you.


I bought some chicken broth for this exact reason. I'm trying to drink it now... I probably should fix my own, but cooking to me is painfully boring.



tack said:


> Now that I type it out, all that sounds like a lot of work to just avoid hunger during the real work of calorie restriction (which as I said for me is the primary goal). But there's also an element of "body hacking" that I kind of find appeals to my inner geek.


I've done the macros counting a few times. I stuck with it one time for a long period (not when I was on keto) and I really noticed an improvement in my body. I was also hitting the gym like a mad man.

Thanks for the help!


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## Daniel Petras (Jun 23, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> Big Keto dieter.
> But don't get fooled into eating more Beef.
> Stay with organic meat as the carbs were removing toxins and antibiotics.
> Now you'd be adding more that stay in your system.
> ...


Awesome, sounds like you've either done some hunting or been around hunters. To be honest, I kind of feel better already. Maybe it's just a placebo at this point.


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## chimuelo (Jun 23, 2017)

Use to hunt, never really liked it but necessary to 
Fishing though is really rewarding. There's so many fish and great protein for diets.
Crappe, Blue Cat and Yellw Bass..yummy.

But people here share food and the old retired hunters get food from younger hunters.
A tradition that helps reward the elders who use to feed others when they hunted.

There's even bikini clad girls and live music on riverfront piers with restaraunts.
Redneck Rivieras....yee haw.

Most adult males are 30 lbs overweight. Not unhealthy if you excercise regularly.
But if you want to get down to to 18% fat Keto is the way.
The more you lose the higher your metabolism gets.
I can eat shitty food twice a week and not gain any weight now.

When I get back to Nevada in a few months my expenses for clean water and food will be very expensive. 10 gallons of spring water here is 3.99 if you go to the springs and fill your canister.
In Nevada 100 a month for water is not uncommon.

Good luck.
Great health is key to happiness.


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## Daniel Petras (Jun 23, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> Use to hunt, never really liked it but necessary to
> Fishing though is really rewarding. There's so many fish and great protein for diets.
> Crappe, Blue Cat and Yellw Bass..yummy.
> 
> ...



I'm originally from Alberta, and although I'm not crazy about hunting, trucks and guns, I do have a good friend who loves that stuff and we have gone on some wild adventures as a result.

Thanks for your help!


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## Smikes77 (Jun 25, 2017)

Wasn`t this to blame for Meisha Tate`s lack of energy in her fight?


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## Daniel Petras (Jun 25, 2017)

Smikes77 said:


> Wasn`t this to blame for Meisha Tate`s lack of energy in her fight?


I haven't done keto super long term, so I can't speak on the long term effects. I know in the initial stages, especially when it comes to resistance training, your lifts suffer a little bit. You don't get quite the burst of energy that you get from a big carb up before a workout, but then you also don't experience the crashes. There are definitely trade offs, it seems. If you're very athletic and looking to bulk up, carbs will probably win over keto. If you're an average Joe, keto might be the way to go as it gives better overall concentration and focus.


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## Smikes77 (Jun 25, 2017)

The cupcake experienced a crash.


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## chimuelo (Jun 25, 2017)

Spiking your metabolism with non starchy carbs on a cheat day keeps your energy levels in a state of confusion. 
I feel weak when I first start with Laterals and 35 lbs.
After the first set instead of going to 40 I stay at 35 and do 12 instead of 8 reps.
Usually takes that long to gain some strength back.
It's a rather quick 2nd wind but snaps me out of weak mans mode...


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## AllanH (Jun 25, 2017)

Here's another resource related the subject:
http://www.mercola.com/infographics/intermittent-fasting.htm

I've found the "intermittent fasting" very effective for period of time, and then the body adjusts. Trying to keep the fasting range from 14-18 hours hasn't taken much adjustment.


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## Daniel Petras (Jun 25, 2017)

Day 4

The sugar is calling me. The smell of fresh bakery bread is seeping through my noes. The keto flu is upon me - I feel my head throbbing. Send halp...


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## tack (Jun 25, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> The keto flu is upon me - I feel my head throbbing.


Have some of that broth. The usual explanation for keto flu is low electrolytes. I'm fortunate enough to have never experienced it, and I've gone in and out of ketosis a few times now. But during those initial days I have a couple cups of beef broth each day. (I also find it generally satisfying.)


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## chimuelo (Jun 25, 2017)

There's a really great Company called Isogenix.
Their fasting day is really a great way to prepare you for any diet.
I bounce around from Keto to Paleo to Isagenix.

I can fast easily now and try to do it twice a month, but it's harvest time where I am at.
Yams and White Sweet Corn, Seedless Deep Red Watermelons, etc.
These Mennonite and Amish farmers have organics down.
Just smelling their Red and Green Bell Peppers at the outdoor market on Saturday is amazing.
Families have been here since the early 1830's. 
Just imagine if they were growing Weed....


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## Daniel Petras (Jun 25, 2017)

tack said:


> Have some of that broth. The usual explanation for keto flu is low electrolytes. I'm fortunate enough to have never experienced it, and I've gone in and out of ketosis a few times now. But during those initial days I have a couple cups of beef broth each day. (I also find it generally satisfying.)


I hate that stuff, but try and do a cup a day. It's store bought, so I think the mystery of not knowing what's inside it makes it worse. An intense gym sesh helps though.


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## chimuelo (Jul 2, 2017)




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## AdamAlake (Jul 2, 2017)

Tried it once. Stopped because it made so fatigued I spent about 6 hours a day awake.


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## Daniel Petras (Jul 2, 2017)

AdamAlake said:


> Tried it once. Stopped because it made so fatigued I spent about 6 hours a day awake.


I don't know your situation or circumstances, but maybe you weren't eating enough fats, enough sodium or didn't stick with it long enough?


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## AdamAlake (Jul 3, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> I don't know your situation or circumstances, but maybe you weren't eating enough fats, enough sodium or didn't stick with it long enough?



I maintained it for a week, I guess it works better after a longer time period, but I do not really have a reason to investigate further since interminent fasting works perfectly well for me.


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## Daniel Petras (Jul 3, 2017)

AdamAlake said:


> I maintained it for a week, I guess it works better after a longer time period, but I do not really have a reason to investigate further since interminent fasting works perfectly well for me.


Cool, what is your experience with fasting?


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## AdamAlake (Jul 4, 2017)

Sonorityscape said:


> Cool, what is your experience with fasting?



More energy, no hunger, less time spent eating and preparing food, great weight loss.


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## odod (Dec 16, 2021)

i lost 8kg in a month, taking this Algae capsules, it makes my body feel better and i don't eat too much because 1 capsule = 1kg veggies and fruits, i had my body detox, thank god i found this product .. sorry i am not a salesman or MLM member  just sharing my experience


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## noldar12 (Dec 16, 2021)

I've been going a slightly different route, but somewhat related in that it emphasizes "lean and green." I came to realize that especially since Covid hit, I had let my weight/health decline. I've been on the Optavia system-it is not cheap, but the goal is life change, and it has proved well worth it. I was very overweight at 239 when I started, and after four months of sticking with it, I am down to 189, and have another 15 pounds to go.

It is tough to stick with it, and it does stress the body. Some of that stress I suspect is necessary and a part of being in fat burning mode.

My energy level is much higher, my back doesn't hurt anywhere near as much, and my joints probably feel 10 years younger. Every excess pound puts four pounds of additional pressure on your joints.

I'm very glad to be going through the process, and for anyone who may be overweight like I was, please consider making changes. Daily exercise also helps.


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 16, 2021)

If you ask me, the best 'diet' is the one that's enjoyable, easy to maintain (indefinitely, if neccesary) and not overly complicated. Personally I think keto works really well for losing weight and staying in a deficit. But that's just the thing with all these diets - in the end it's all about calories in, calories out, right?

Want to lose a bit of weight? Just eat a little bit below your average maintence. Do some type of cardio. Doesn't even have to be balls-out HIIT, just enough to help you stay fit and in that deficit. In the meantime, don't starve yourself if you don't have to. Make sure you eat healthy, low calorie-dense foods and drink enough water, so you'll always feel full and energized.

Want to gain some muscle? Go in a small calorie surplus - don't overdo this either or you'll just end up looking fluffly instead of jacked. Just 250kcal, something like that. Then, keep your proteine intake at around 2 grams/kg of your own bodyweight per day (ehrr.... that's like 1 gram/lbs, right?). So in my case that's around, meeh 200 grams. You can also use that ratio to keep (most of) your 'gains' if you decide to lose a bit of weight/go into a deficit.

And then, yeah - start lifting weights with proper form/technique (especially if you're a beginner) and progressive overload to slowly get stronger and fitter. Slow and steady is the way to go. Also, find exercises you love to do. Don't like a particular exercise or does it hurt when you do it? Stop doing them. Plenty of other good alternatives. Or you won't be able to stay with your routine and risk just giving up and you're back at eating a bucket of Häagen-Dazs/chicken at 4 in the morning.

So in short; do what makes you feel good. If you want to lose weight, be in a deficit. Eat healthy. Work out hard, progressive overload. Make sure you don't go overboard and stick to your own plan. Don't look at what anybody else is doing/lifting and be consistent.

Don't be this guy is what I'm trying to say, I guess:


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## Owen Smith (Dec 17, 2021)

I did a Keto diet for about 10 months last year and lost 50lbs (210 down to 160). I have a hard time resisting food that I enjoy so trying to just eat less and limit carbs was always hard for me. Especially when I was around "free" food at potlucks or parties. The pandemic helped to limit the amount that I was going out or around other people eating my favorite foods so it wasn't as hard for me to get going with Keto. I also took advantage of a local store that sells expired products including keto shakes at very low prices. The shakes helped me satisfy a little bit of the urge for sweet foods without giving me actual sugar. I realize artificial sweeteners are controversial and some have more potential negative effects than others. Other than that, I ate a lot of eggs, cheese, ground beef, chicken, bacon, tuna, buffalo wings, hot dogs (not exactly a health food lol), almonds, and some salads and vegetables. I even started to like coli flour rice and other carb substitutes (which you can even get at Chipotle and other places now). I definitely didn't follow a specific plan or the healthiest Keto plan--just what was easy for me.

Overall, I really loved how Keto made me feel physically. I had less reflux and indigestion despite eating more fatty foods. I wasn't hungry or hangry all the time, had less fluctuation in energy, and just felt free from being distracted by food. This was really helpful during my first to semester working on my doctorate. I was also going to the gym and doing moderate exercise which made me feel better playing with my kids and joining in football (soccer) games with friends over the summer. 

I took a break from Keto in the summer when my family took a trip and have had a hard time going back due to more family gatherings and outings. I've been able to limit my sugar intake more than before and have stayed between 170-180lbs which I'm happy with. However, I can feel the holiday weight coming on again. I'm considering going back to Keto or at least a lower carb/high protein diet in the new year. I totally suggest trying it if you have trouble resisting carbs and sweets. Just to experience being "free" from sugar addiction for a bit is remarkable. 

Many people, including my Mother, swear by Keto and claim that it has resolved most of their health problems. I'm not as fanatic about it and don't think that it is for everyone. I definitely agree with the principles that quickbrownfOx shared. If you can stick to those that will help a lot. For me (without my poor self-control) Keto helped me see that it is possible to take control of my diet and appetite rather than being controlled by my cravings. Now we just need to apply the same principles to GAS so that we don't over consume sample libraries to the point where we feel sluggish and don't even know where to begin with them. Its better to have a few solid options and really learn how to use them than to get everything that our sample library sweet tooth craves. I've learned that the hard way


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## cloudbuster (Dec 17, 2021)

noldar12 said:


> I came to realize that especially since Covid hit, I had let my weight/health decline


Sounds familiar. Spent too much time on the sofa during the last two years, and even though I ate pretty 'healthy' (almost no processed crap or fast food) I gained around 10kg, mainly from lack of movement and one or two croissants or cookies to many at the wrong times. Cut.
Lost some 5kg during the last two months and got a lot of strength back, mainly with cutting the crap (NO sugar/empty carbs/processed foodstuffs) an initial liver cleanse, slowly moving into 3 days of intermittent fasting per week + long walks and high intensity workouts (on machines), usually during the last 2 hours of fasting.
No calorie counting or real hunger, no hurry, feels and looks better every day, yay ...


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## MartinH. (Dec 17, 2021)

I've done Keto in the past and lost weight on it, it works. Didn't feel as amazing as people usually describe, but I don't feel like that from excercise either. I should lose some weight again, but I'm trying to cut waaaay back on meat, and that turns Keto from hard to brutal. I'm basically sick of everything I can eat on keto after a couple days already. So I haven't been very motivated on my last few attempts.




Owen Smith said:


> I realize artificial sweeteners are controversial and some have more potential negative effects than others


Diet Pepsi used to be the one thing that would make Keto bearable, but on my last blood test my doc said I have the kidneys of someone twice my age and I have the suspicion it's caused by the artificial sweeteners in the diet Pepsi. He also advised against doing keto diet, since it's straining the kidneys as well. So I'll wait for them to recover first. I do drink enough (maybe too much even), and I really can't think of anything else that could have caused this.


I haven't touched pepsi in a couple months, still have that craving almost every day though. I think I'm legit addicted to pepsi/cola, the kind that never truely goes away again. I'm mentioning it because I think it could be a common trap to fall into because it's the one satisfying sweet thing you can still consume without limitations when you're on keto (or any diet in general).


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## youngpokie (Dec 17, 2021)

I've been on keto since 2015 and only interrupted it once for about 4 months. I lost 28 lbs to reach the weight I had when I was 16 and I maintained it ever since, except for that one lapse.

Like most people, I went through an adjustment period and mine was very different from my partner's. Mine took longer and felt like massive withdrawal. I was alert, full of energy but also dizzy and lightheaded very often. And then one day the lightheadedness just stopped I and felt great ever since.

What I learned about keto during this time is that it's a lot easier to lose _a ton_ of weight than it is to control carb cravings. Sugar is like crack cocaine and baby food is so full of carbs that the lifelong habituation starts almost immediately. As an infant, I had to go on formula early on so this might have something to do with it. But I found out that carb cravings do drop significantly over time, but it took a long time for me. 

The other thing that's not as simple as many sources say is the individual ratio of fat/protein/carbs. First, the number of meals per day has a big influence on the ratio and second, the ratio actually changes over time. To me, finding the individual ratio and its curve is the secret sauce of keto. When I figured out my formula (about year 3 or 4 into it), I stopped eating breakfast, reduced the amount of protein without losing muscle mass and I even brought back bread (!).


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## MartinH. (Dec 17, 2021)

youngpokie said:


> When I figured out my formula (about year 3 or 4 into it), I stopped eating breakfast, reduced the amount of protein without losing muscle mass and I even brought back bread (!).



Bread? Holy shit, how?? How many grams of carbs did you end up eating each day without dropping out of keto? I tried to stay below 50g and always thought this must be more complex than just that one fixed number, but I also dropped out a couple of times and that always brought back hunger and carb cravings for a couple of days, so I wasn't super keen on experimenting with that to figure out my own formula.


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## cloudbuster (Dec 17, 2021)

youngpokie said:


> What I learned about keto during this time is that it's a lot easier to lose _a ton_ of weight than it is to control carb cravings. Sugar is like crack cocaine and baby food is so full of carbs that the lifelong habituation starts almost immediately.


Same here. I grew up with all sorts of snacks and chocolate _everywhere_ 24/7 and even though I never weighed more than 20kg over my ideal weight (85kg @ 192cm) I noticed more and more fatty liver symptoms over the years and whenever it got too much I cut the crap, did a liver cleanse for a couple weeks followed by some weight reduction BS only to return back to 'normal' = all sorts of crap carbs a couple months later. This time though I stopped counting calories and have taken up some high intensity resistance training and am enjoying every minute of it, despite the sometimes pretty painful procedures. After just a couple weeks in the torture park (outdoors) I feel a LOT better, can see some surprising results and this keeps the aging couch potato really motivated to keep pulling and pressing heavy iron for another while 👍


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## noldar12 (Dec 17, 2021)

Quickbrownf0x said it well, long-term not eating more calories than one is burning is the solution. The thing I forgot to add was that it appears to be better to eat several very small meals throughout the day. On the program I'm on that equates to eating 6 times a day (daily calorie intake is about 1,000 or so). In addition, I've been walking over three miles a day typically about five days a week (sometimes six).


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## youngpokie (Dec 17, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Bread? Holy shit, how??


I bake bread (and also naan) with real bread flour, and we each have a slice every couple of days (depending of course on what we're eating).

I'm speculating but I think there is a combination of factors. First, there's a correlation between my keto ratios and the time between meals. I don't remember how I came across this, but basically if you increase the time between meals (e.g. skipping breakfast in my case) you can put more carbs back in. I have coffee in the morning with a bit of cream and my first meal is around noon earliest.

Second, I oversimplify now and basically treat my protein + carbs as a single category, which gives me some leeway in the ratios. I just have to make sure I have enough protein to maintain muscle mass. Early on, I hit a plateau with my weight and reducing protein allowed me to resume the weight loss. I think this happens because at some point the body will treat excess protein the same way it treats carbs. So the trick is finding the minimum protein needed and not to exceed it too much, which I admit took a bit of time.

And this excess food is a big deal. Doing keto for such a long time, I realized (certainly not right away!) that I don't need this massive amount of food to feel good and function well. It takes time to for this happen, maybe the stomach needs to shrink back to its intended size or something. But because I don't feel hungry between meals I can experiment with amounts of food and see I was overeating my entire life.

So in a nutshell, my ratios are less protein/slightly more carbs, they also apply to a smaller amount of food per day (so, denser per meal), and the gap between dinner and "brunch" is around 14 hours or more.

EDIT:



noldar12 said:


> it appears to be better to eat several very small meals throughout the day.



I remember this! Great if it works for you and you see the result. In my case, this felt like training the body to be constantly expecting a supply of fresh food and punish me with pangs of hunger when I didn't provide.


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## el-bo (Dec 17, 2021)

quickbrownf0x said:


> If you ask me, the best 'diet' is the one that's enjoyable, easy to maintain (indefinitely, if neccesary) and not overly complicated.


Yes! Just like the best exercise is the one you actually enjoy, and will therefore have a higher likelihood of sticking with



quickbrownf0x said:


> in the end it's all about calories in, calories out, right?


Yes...Much to the chagrin of many low-carbers


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## chillbot (Dec 17, 2021)

I transitioned from full keto to lo-carb and have been going for almost a year now, it's become a lifestyle change and has a huge impact on my energy. Like night and day if I ever eat carbs I notice it right away, super sluggish. I went keto initially to lose weight (dropped 25 lbs) but even if I'm not technically in ketosis anymore (not sure) I know that I'll never go back to carbs, my focus and energy is so much better now. My rule of thumb is no pizza, pasta, bread, rice, potatoes, etc. Otherwise I don't stress if like, the chicken is lightly breaded or whatever. All the broccoli and avocados I want. Though I also exercise 2-3 hours every day.

The only downside is I can't drink alcohol anymore. Well I mean, I still do, but you get lit very quick. You'd think that be a good thing but I've always been a heavy wine drinker and the buzz is no longer happy and mellow, it's more sharp and edgy. Only way I can describe it. I miss the happy mellow buzz.

Another random thing I will throw out... I've had hives my whole life when I exercise, I break out when I start sweating and then they usually go away. Itchy for a few minutes and annoying but not severe. Anyway I had tried every method of trial and error but I could never figure out what caused them. Well I went keto and they went away. I went off keto for a week and ate some carbs around a race I was running, they came back. Stopped carbs, they went away again. So weird.

For those doing keto: if you haven't made yourself a keto lasagna you are seriously missing out! So good. Even my wife and kids like it. And it's a great thing to throw in the fridge for leftovers whenever. Honestly maybe even better than with noodles... just a big pile of keto meat and cheese. You can find any number of recipes on the internet but the quantities hardly matter, just throw together any combination of eggs, cream cheese, mozzerella, parmesan, seasoning, and optionally a bit of almond flour. Spread and bake into sheets for the noodles.

I don't mind 4-year-old threads getting bumped when it's relevant and adds more info (which this does) but it seems so random when it's a new user with 2 posts...


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 17, 2021)

noldar12 said:


> Quickbrownf0x said it well, long-term not eating more calories than one is burning is the solution. The thing I forgot to add was that it appears to be better to eat several very small meals throughout the day. On the program I'm on that equates to eating 6 times a day (daily calorie intake is about 1,000 or so). In addition, I've been walking over three miles a day typically about five days a week (sometimes six).


Cheers! And awesome to hear things are going so well. I'm not a doctor or a dietician and I don't know your stats, but 1,000 a day sounds a bit low to me if I'm honest. But if it works for you - great! Just make sure you don't lose weight _too _fast to let your body adjust and keep it off easier as well.

Spreading out your meals and snacks, whatnot evenly across the day is also smart. Make sure to include low-calorie dense foods, stuff that can take a while to digest so you'll always feel full. Drinking plenty of water will help with that too. Popcorn's also a winner, btw.

So even though I don't have a degree in this stuff, I did manage to pick up a thing or two about dieting and exercising since I started training, lifting weights back in 2012.
To stay as healthy as I can, into old age - that's my goal. I want to still be able to pick up my wife, throw her over my shoulder and carry her up the stairs without coughing up a lung. 

I'm similar to you, btw - 5 days a week, with low-intensity cardio to warm up. Wednesdays and Sunday's off.


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 17, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Yes! Just like the best exercise is the one you actually enjoy, and will therefore have a higher likelihood of sticking with
> 
> 
> Yes...Much to the chagrin of many low-carbers


"If _your_ theory is found to be _against_ the second _law_ of theromodynamics, I give you _no hope_; _there is_ nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation."


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## NekujaK (Dec 17, 2021)

My wife and I have been on keto since 2019.

In terms of weight loss, I initially lost about 20lbs, but during the COVID lockdown of 2020, I simply couldn't take all the restrictions being imposed on my life all at once, so strayed from Keto for several months. Of course, the 20lbs came back, plus another 10lbs for good measure. Even though I returned to eating keto at the beginning of 2021, I've been unable to shed the weight ever since. For me, I know it's simply a matter of calories. Most of my existence is spent in a chair in front of a computer or on a couch watching TV, but my eating habits haven't adjusted accordingly.

But one thing for sure, I'll never go back to a carb-filled diet. I occasionally miss breads and pizza, but there are adequate alternatives: keto bread (made with almond flour) and cauliflower pizza crusts (most actually have very high carbs because of all the additives - there's one brand that actually has a genuinely low carb pizza crust). I definitely feel better overall not consuming carbs.

My wife continues to have great success with keto - lost 15lbs, which is a lot on her small frame - and it has stayed off.


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## DavidRubenstein (Dec 17, 2021)

I am on a "keto-light" diet, meaning that some carbohydrates are allowed. I am a vegetarian, and the plan allows meatless diets. I've lost 20 pounds in 9 weeks, and I feel good. My wife is a coach for the plan. Here is her landing page:
https://acudoc.groovepages.com/seventips


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## Zoot_Rollo (Dec 20, 2021)

I was full-keto for 3 years.

Keto was instrumental with getting my weight and prediabetes under control.

However, I have since cycled back to include beans, nuts, seeds, and some non-gluten grains.

Chickpea flour to the rescue!

The keto trip included and elimination diet approach to pinpoint sources of inflammation.

Dairy, sugar, and gluten were the main offenders.

As I get older, colon and prostate health are HUGE.

So, high fiber, moderate to high protein from fish and eggs, lots of greens... no beef!

This kicks me out of keto, but my bloodwork and PSA levels thank me for it.

I include intermittent fasting daily - I eat 9am to 3pm, with a 40 hour fast on the weekends once a month.

All this with daily exercise: 4 hours of walking per week plus barbell weights.

I also supplement with magnesium, potassium, D3/K2, C and Iron and revamped all my cookware - cast iron, nickel free stainless. all glass containers.


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## Rohann (Dec 21, 2021)

tack said:


> Yep. Since March 2016, apart from an extended period after Christmas where I (intentionally) fell off the wagon. Maybe for longer than I'd intended. Much longer.
> 
> As with most of the entirety of the field of nutrition, it's badly encumbered with magical thinking that it's hard to sort out fact from fiction, especially because much of the bullshit tends to be couched in scientific language. My favorite is the popular "n=1 experiment" which is basically "I did stuff and noticed stuff about myself" as if that counts for anything useful scientifically. If you read the keto subreddit you'll find every conceivable positive change being ascribed to keto by at least one person. Including curing cancer.
> 
> ...


This.

I used to work in the field and have spent an inordinate amount of time pouring through research papers both in uni and out.

Different diets yield different results within individuals and between individuals. Virta Health treats type II diabetes with keto diets and are remarkably successful at it. They've posted bloodwork results and despite virtually identical diets, some people have drastic reductions in LDL-C and apoB and in others, it jumps. Bioindividuality is very much a thing.

What it does seem to be good for is the treatment of metabolic syndrome and various related disorders, like Type II diabetes. It's great for appetite control since the food is rather satiating, and pairs very well with intermittent fasting and time-restricted eating. It also pairs well with endurance sports once the rather long (usually 6 months +) adaptation period occurs.

What it's not good for is strength or power sports, or generally for the building and retention of athletic muscle mass. In some people there does seem to be a dramatic increase of apoB (much better predictor of heart disease than LDL-C, such that when LDL-C is high and apoB is low the risk is actually far lower than the average person), but I'm skeptical of the effect barring the ingestion of processed carbohydrates. Again, mileage widely varies, but for most of these things it depends: what's your goal?

For some people it just works, for others it doesn't. If you reduce your intake of processed food, including processed vegetable oils, better control your appetite and overall enjoy your food, have at 'er. The goal of any diet should be to eliminate as many processed foods as possible -- usually combinations of refined carbohydrates and garbage oils -- in addition to increasing protein (preferably animal) and intaking whole fats, i.e. fish, avocado, animal fats.

I personally had better results with a semi-carnivore diet due to the dramatic decrease in inflammation I experienced, which was a verified issue for me. I've since added what I consider to be clean carbohydrates for fuel like rice, fruit and honey that haven't affected me negatively overall and I have more energy for weightlifting.

*Quick tip: You need drastically more electrolytes when on a keto or keto-ish diet, usually sodium (which you expel to a much greater degree with little to no carbohydrates in your system). I had horrible leg cramps at night until I started taking about a half teaspoon of salt in the evening. The effect scales very reliably with my carbohydrate intake.


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## noldar12 (Dec 21, 2021)

Rohann, thank you for that tip. There have been times over the past few months as I've been in the weight loss process that I have had some real problems at night with leg cramps. I will try adding a bit of salt. THanks again.


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## Rohann (Dec 22, 2021)

noldar12 said:


> Rohann, thank you for that tip. There have been times over the past few months as I've been in the weight loss process that I have had some real problems at night with leg cramps. I will try adding a bit of salt. THanks again.


Glad I could help!
I couldn't find this info anywhere, and given the relative sodium-phobia in the mainstream most recommendations weren't to increase sodium despite the massive change in retention when in ketosis or even when reducing carbs. Sodium, IMO, is a non-issue on keto diets in terms of upper limits given the absence of processed foods, generally speaking.

Took quite a bit of experimentation. While I generally broadly recommend magnesium for most people, I was taking about 2g/day of magnesium and potassium with no change to leg cramps.

I should note that you'll probably need slightly less table salt than i.e. Himalayan or sea salt, given the relatively higher density of sodium. You could take this in the form of bullion at night or if you want to do it the quick-and-dirty way, just down it with quite a bit of water after food.


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## noldar12 (Dec 22, 2021)

The problems haven't been as bad of late, so my first thought is to add a bit to my "lean and green" meal as well as to some of the provided foods.


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## eNGee (Dec 25, 2021)

Yes I do Keto and Dr. Berg is my mother's Messiah, so we pray to him every day before our lunch 

Merry Bergmass


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## el-bo (Dec 25, 2021)

Rohann said:


> This.
> 
> I used to work in the field and have spent an inordinate amount of time pouring through research papers both in uni and out.
> 
> ...


Your dietary modifications suggest you are inclined towards Saladino?

Personally, I'm not overly impressed with Virta's results, although free-living studies aren't really ideal for this type of experiment.


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