# Is using presets as-is okay?



## Thlian (Jul 13, 2022)

Is it? Without even tweaking them, as a part of a mix? Is that cheating, not original or does it show a complete lack of creativity?

There are SO many of them in absolute every librarie out there. Many of them are also very good. Can they be a tool in a start fase when learning composition? Instead of burning off the motivation trying to get my head around how to use samplers, synths, drum machines and so on to make that original self-made sound?
I kind of feel it's cheating, but it's become an obsticle.Because I don't know MassiveX or Emulation in and out. I feel I haven't earned myself the knowledge to believe I can make anything!


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## mybadmemory (Jul 13, 2022)

Of course it’s ok! Listen through the entire history of music since the advent of synths and samplers and you’ll find loads of them across everything. Now of course some people really like to design their own sounds, and masterfully do so, but never let anyone tell you that using a preset is cheating. That’s basically the same as saying using any acoustic instrument without building it first would be cheating. Not everyone is an instrument builder or sound designer. Being “just” a musician or composer is more than enough unless you actually find the other stuff interesting!


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## NekujaK (Jul 13, 2022)

It's not cheating to use presets. There are some people who might say it is - ignore them.

A preset is simply a sound. When you use a violin, do you spend time tweaking the sound to "make it your own"? Of course not, because it's the sound of the violin that you want. Thousands, probably millions, of pieces of music use the same violin sound, and it's perfectly okay.

So if a virtual instrument or a synth has a preset that delivers the sound you want, then use it.

And always keep in mind who you're making music for. The listening audience doesn't care where or how you arrive at your sounds, as long as the music you make is pleasing to their ears. So focus on the music itself and use the sounds and tools that are available to you to create your art!


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## mgpqa1 (Jul 13, 2022)

Sure, go for it. I mean, Daft Punk used presets from IL's Gross Beat pretty much as-is in the track _Derezzed_ from the _Tron Legacy_ soundtrack:


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## Alex Niedt (Jul 13, 2022)

Depends 100% on context and how you use them. You can hear music on TV shows every day built entirely from Stylus RMX and Omnisphere presets in the most lazy, unimaginative ways, and it's _terribly_ monotonous and makes every show sound like the same tired person did it. But in skilled, creative hands, presets can be fantastic. I always think of the drum loop from Rihanna's "Umbrella". That was an Apple loop, if I recall, but absolutely drove that song, the sound of which helped change pop at the time. You can breathe new life into even the stalest of sounds in the context of an undeniably fresh approach.

But yeah, there's no such thing as cheating with presets, as they never make up for or replace talent.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 13, 2022)

Thlian said:


> Is it? Without even tweaking them, as a part of a mix? Is that cheating, not original or does it show a complete lack of creativity?
> 
> There are SO many of them in absolute every librarie out there. Many of them are also very good. Can they be a tool in a start fase when learning composition? Instead of burning off the motivation trying to get my head around how to use samplers, synths, drum machines and so on to make that original self-made sound?
> I kind of feel it's cheating, but it's become an obsticle.Because I don't know MassiveX or Emulation in and out. I feel I haven't earned myself the knowledge to believe I can make anything!


You don’t have to ask anybody if it’s okay or not to use presets!

What matters is what _you_ think. 

Don’t worry about other people’s opinion - you know what they say about opinions !


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## NekujaK (Jul 13, 2022)

Alex Niedt said:


> Depends 100% on context and how you use them. You can hear music on TV shows every day built entirely from Stylus RMX and Omnisphere presets in the most lazy, unimaginative ways, and it's _terribly_ monotonous and makes every show sound like the same tired person did it. But in skilled, creative hands, presets can be fantastic.


They may be lazy and unimaginative to us musicians (who make up a miniscule fraction of the population), but to the music supervisors and networks who produce these shows, they're perfectly acceptable. And more importantly, the viewing audience is prefectly happy with them.

Are we making music for other musicians, or for the consumers at large? I prefer the latter, because they pay my bills


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## Thlian (Jul 13, 2022)

THANK YOU! It's been bugging the crap out of me. Like birdshit on my car paint waiting for the perfect weather to wash it off. Awful analogy......
I was hoping for this, not being judged for using them, but with clear conscience finally can move a step further. The fun part. Play, record, listen to crap, learn, repeat 😉🤘


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## Alex Niedt (Jul 13, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> They may be lazy and unimaginative to us musicians (who make up a miniscule fraction of the population), but to the music supervisors and networks who produce these shows, they're perfectly acceptable. And more importantly, the viewing audience is prefectly happy with them.
> 
> Are we making music for other musicians, or for the consumers at large? I prefer the latter, because they pay my bills


This assumes that viewers like lazy music rather than lazy music ends up on these shows because it's cheap and easy to produce. It also assumes the audience likes the music on these shows to begin with. But anyway, my point was loops are fine to use. But turning in Stylus RMX loops to publishers all day doesn't make it any less lazy just because it pays the bills, and that has nothing to do with making music for other musicians. If you're really trying to make great music for consumers, you're going to put effort in (and again, that effort can definitely still include loops).


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## NekujaK (Jul 13, 2022)

Alex Niedt said:


> This assumes that viewers like lazy music rather than lazy music ends up on these shows because it's cheap and easy to produce. It also assumes the audience likes the music on these shows to begin with. But anyway, my point was loops are fine to use. But turning in Stylus RMX loops to publishers all day doesn't make it any less lazy just because it pays the bills, and that has nothing to do with making music for other musicians. If you're really trying to make great music for consumers, you're going to put effort in (and again, that effort can definitely still include loops).


Fair enough, and I understand your points.

My overall point was that the audience doesn't judge music in the same way as musicians do. The audience won't criticize a piece of music because it uses a collection of tired old loops and presets, but musicians and composers very often will.

I just wanted to caution the OP that making music that other musicians approve of is not necessarily a useful path to follow, because we hear and evaluate music in a completely different way than an average listener. Better to make music that, first you like, and second that the listening audience will like. Forget about other musicans.

Also, something that we as musicians/composers tend to lose sight of, is that music for TV is not meant to stand out and call attention to itself. Music is at the very bottom of the priority list when it comes to both film & TV audio. It's simply there to underscore and reinforce the emotion of a scene. Very often a simple pulse and a high string pad are all that's necessary. We musicians may find that boring and lazy, but it's often exactly what the scene requires.

This reminds me of my recent experience watching Ozark on Netflix. Ozark has an amazingly fresh, innovative, and original score. Every episode was a sonic delight for me. But when I'd talk to my non-musician friends about the show, they barely even noticed the music, and most were completely unaware of it


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## Uncle Peter (Jul 13, 2022)

Think of the Yamaha DX7 Tubular Bell in Top Gun.. there's a decent emulation here..
https://www.webaudiomodules.org/wamsynths/webdx7/
(select the Tub Bells patch)

Terminator 2 soundtrack Brad Fiedel - a lot of Fairlight CMI samples/presets... creatively used. "Brass Fall" played lower and slower is the grinding fear inducing industrial sound. Alex Ball did a good video on it


Presets are totally valid for points of inspiration, however at the very least you'll probably need to sculpt the sound using EQ to sit in the mix. I'd argue the big complex sounding presets that sound impressive on their own are probably useless if you have any kind of vision about how your track should sound from the off..


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## John Judd (Jul 13, 2022)

Once upon a time I was watching an episode of The Dog Whisperer and heard a naked patch from Rob Papen’s Albino. Literally just that patch and nothing else. I was actually mad. I decided at that moment that I would never do that and call it a track. 

That said: presets are fine, but turn them into something unique. No shame. 

Lastly, I once heard a quote (perhaps on VI) about presets that made me think very carefully about how exposed they would ever be in my music going forward: ‘You’re using someone else’s sound palette’. Just food for thought.


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## PaulieDC (Jul 13, 2022)

Thlian said:


> Is it? Without even tweaking them, as a part of a mix? Is that cheating, not original or does it show a complete lack of creativity?
> 
> There are SO many of them in absolute every librarie out there. Many of them are also very good. Can they be a tool in a start fase when learning composition? Instead of burning off the motivation trying to get my head around how to use samplers, synths, drum machines and so on to make that original self-made sound?
> I kind of feel it's cheating, but it's become an obsticle.Because I don't know MassiveX or Emulation in and out. I feel I haven't earned myself the knowledge to believe I can make anything!


If it sounds good, it is good. I did a school project that was all orchestrated except for the beginning, I had done it with a Berlin ensemble string patch to lay it out. I tried to recreate it with individual instruments, just couldn't quite get the same yummy sound, so I left it on a stock preset. Not kidding, one of the instructor's comments: "love the beginning!"

Don't ask me. I just compose here. On an incredibly basic level.


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## NekujaK (Jul 13, 2022)

John Judd said:


> ‘You’re using someone else’s sound palette’.


Every pop/rock/folk/country song with drums, bass, guitar, and piano has been using the same sound palette for decades, and it's perfectly fine. Nobody owns a sonic palette. Sounds are simply sounds - the building blocks we use to create music.

Only composers who are familiar with synths and libraries might recognize a patch. And so what? They're not the audience. The general public doesn't care if our music is made up of sounds that have been used before - they just want an enjoyable listening experience. Or in the case of media music, something that's appropriate for the situation.

Music supervisors for film and TV have access to tens of thousands of pieces of music. It's an incredibly competitive environment, with some of the best composers in the business vying to get their music placed. And yet something like a naked patch from Albino gets chosen. Why? Because it works.

I'd rather be the guy who submitted the one-patch wonder and collected a paycheck, than the composer of a masterpiece who made all my own sounds but never gets placed.


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## tressie5 (Jul 13, 2022)

I feel guilty sometimes for using granular synths for my tracks, and that's because some patches in granular synths are so textured and complex, they already sound like complete tracks. Theoretically, I can sit with Novum in a room and, in one full day, create two or three ambient albums. Now _that's_ cheating!


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## John Judd (Jul 13, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> Every pop/rock/folk/country song with drums, bass, guitar, and piano has been using the same sound palette for decades, and it's perfectly fine. Nobody owns a sonic palette. Sounds are simply sounds - the building blocks we use to create music.
> 
> Only composers who are familiar with synths and libraries might recognize a patch. And so what? They're not the audience. The general public doesn't care if our music is made up of sounds that have been used before - they just want an enjoyable listening experience. Or in the case of media music, something that's appropriate for the situation.
> 
> Music supervisors for film and TV have access to tens of thousands of pieces of music. It's an incredibly competitive environment, with some of the best composers in the business vying to get their music placed. And yet something like a naked patch from Albino gets chosen. Why? Because it works.



I’m sure there are a ton of composers out there doing just that. In the beginning, I’m sure we all did it. If this is the music they find engaging, then they can have it. I’d rather create something more meaningful at this point. I’ve never heard composers like Harry Gregson Williams, Henry Jackman, or Thomas Newman do that in a score.


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## NekujaK (Jul 13, 2022)

John Judd said:


> If this is the music they find engaging, then they can have it. I’d rather create something more meaningful at this point.


Absolutely nothing wrong with that, and obviously, what you want to do with your music and where you want it to end up is going to inform your approach. It's always best to make music that pleases you first and foremost.

I just don't want the OP to get the impression that there's anything wrong with using existing presets. Because there isn't, as your Dog Whisperer example illustrates.

Gregson Williams, Jackson, and Newman happen to all trade on the same sonic palette: an orchestra. The choice of sounds you use and the sophistication of your composition are two completely different things. That Albino patch could've been used to create a highly complex piece of music, but it may not have been appropriate for the TV show.


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## John Judd (Jul 13, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> Absolutely nothing wrong with that, and obviously, what you want to do with your music and where you want it to end up is going to inform your approach. It's always best to make music that pleases you first and foremost.
> 
> I just don't want the OP to get the impression that there's anything wrong with using existing presets. Because there isn't, as your Dog Whisperer example illustrates.
> 
> Gregson Williams, Jackson, and Newman happen to all trade on the same sonic palette: an orchestra. The choice of sounds you use and the sophistication of your composition are two completely different things. That Albino patch could've been used to create a highly complex piece of music, but it may not have been appropriate for the TV show.


As in my post above, I said ‘no shame’ and meant it (regarding presets/loops).


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## Thlian (Jul 13, 2022)

John Judd said:


> Lastly, I once heard a quote (perhaps on VI) about presets that made me think very carefully about how exposed they would ever be in my music going forward: ‘You’re using someone else’s sound palette’. Just food for thought.


Exactly where the shoe don't fit(?!), achilles? Anyway, this has always been in back of my head. Someone made that preset, pad, patch, palette, loop. No matter how simple or complex. In MassiveX (and more), presets are presented with name of the author as well. Part of the work has been done for me!

But I guess it's a reason it's there. If they hadn't, I'm pretty sure the sales had been dramatically lower. But also because they are ment to be used. What role they "play" or how much they stick out in the big picture with X number of additional tracks, and how it's all mixed together definer the final result. After you all said it's no shame, I came to think of it. How the score sounds in the end and how it strengthens the visual emotions on the screen, determins the audiences overall impression. Guess that for most people it enhances the emotions, tension and excitement without they actually knowing it. At least not until the music's not there, then it would be extremely boring 
I'm not a musician though I'm working on it, played som some barythone and trombone back in the day. I read notes at some degree, but I consider myself having a pretty descent musical ear. I often tend to capture how the score sound and what it do for the movie/series. Some are uninspiring, boring and repetitive, and some are trying to hard. 

Not long ago I saw a Norwegian series (since I live here 😉), the series where good. But the soundtrack was exhausting and repetitive. Sounded like the inspiraton came from Zimmer and they tried hard and in my opinion overshot it. I'll try to illustrate by using zimmer scores. Anyone remember Black Hawk Down? The score is being built up from start until the helicopter crashes and gets pretty intense. Try mixing that "stress" with music as blend of POC, Dark Knight and Bladerunner2049 in a repetitive pattern ABSOLUTELY all the time. Good it was only 1 season 🥴

Again I got lost in my own topic, but I might have come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter who made some of the presets, it's the end result that matters.
If I some day get the balls to post a demo track you will be my best audience, not friends or family. Anyone new needs constructive feedback, how and what to improve. Most people I know roll their eyes when I say I listen to movie scores or classical music when I'm at work....


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## NekujaK (Jul 13, 2022)

So what exactly are the fears and concerns around using existing presets?

*Scenario A*: Someone hears your music on Spotify and exclaims, "I really like this, but even though I don't know the first thing about making music, I could swear I hear a factory Omnisphere preset! I don't even know what an Omnisphere is, but clearly, I can't listen to this piece of music ever again because I recognize that sound!"
====NEVER EVER GOING TO HAPPEN====

*Scenario B*: You're scoring a feature film and the director tells you, "I really love this cue, but unfortunately, I'm hearing a stock Pigments preset, so we're going to have to let you go and hire a different composer."
====NEVER EVER GOING TO HAPPEN====

*Scenario C*: You submit a collection of tracks to BMG for licensing, and a music supervisor replies, "These tracks are amazing! Exactly what we've been looking for! But we hear several factory presets from Massive X on them, so we have no choice but to reject them. Sorry."
====NEVER EVER GOING TO HAPPEN====

*Scenario D*: You enter a film scoring contest and the judges tell you, "This is by far the best entry we've received - the clear winner! However, the panel of judges distinctly hear a stock Legend preset in the last 20 seconds, so we have no choice but to reject your entry, and we're also going to ban you from ever entering one of our contests again. Goodbye."
====NEVER EVER GOING TO HAPPEN====

*Scenario E*: You post your new composition on VI-Control, and a bunch of members comment: "Really nice piece, but we can hear a stock Omnisphere bass patch, and you're clearly using mic mix 2 from Abbey Road One, and that's definitely a Shreddage guitar, and we can tell those drums are the default organic kit from Damage 2, and the singer is Clara from Ethera Gold. You need to go back and create your own patch in Omnisphere, build a soundstage and hire and record your own orchestra, play the guitar yourself and while you're at it, build your own amp, then make your own drums from the skins of goats that you raise yourself, and finally, have a female child, train her to sing at an early age and record her. Only then will we stop thinking of you as an unoriginal, lazy, uncreative hack. Meanwhile, you should be banned from this forum."
====VERY LIKELY COULD HAPPEN====


If you are genuinely afraid of Scenario E, then you're making music for all the wrong reasons


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## jcrosby (Jul 13, 2022)

Thlian said:


> Is it? Without even tweaking them, as a part of a mix? Is that cheating, not original or does it show a complete lack of creativity?
> 
> There are SO many of them in absolute every librarie out there. Many of them are also very good. Can they be a tool in a start fase when learning composition? Instead of burning off the motivation trying to get my head around how to use samplers, synths, drum machines and so on to make that original self-made sound?
> I kind of feel it's cheating, but it's become an obsticle.Because I don't know MassiveX or Emulation in and out. I feel I haven't earned myself the knowledge to believe I can make anything!


Cheating in what way? Most orchestral libraries have very few options, and many people use them straight out of the box, making them orchestral *presets*.

Some similar questions might be:

Is using electricity to generate sound, in order to recreate the acoustic experience of an acoustic instrument cheating?

Because sound is ephemeral and location specific, is recording sound cheating? And is listening to it in a different location cheating?

Is making a film cheating when humans earliest version of storytelling involved stories being passed on as spoken word/_oral tradition_?

Is writing cheating because of the reason above? 
(Our earliest forms of communication and storytelling were handed down verbally).


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 13, 2022)

John Judd said:


> Lastly, I once heard a quote (perhaps on VI) about presets that made me think very carefully about how exposed they would ever be in my music going forward: ‘You’re using someone else’s sound palette’. Just food for thought.


The instruments of the orchestra sound (roughly) the same for all composers, yet different composers use these instruments to create vastly different works. So I call BS on that sound palette one liner someone said.


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## Chris Schmidt (Jul 13, 2022)

Is it cheating to use the same guitar and amp someone else already owns?


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## NuNativs (Jul 13, 2022)

That's a question only YOU can answer...


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## Gothi (Jul 13, 2022)

Pity if all the work of a good sound designer should be wasted because some internet crusaders think you have to make your own sounds. It is not like plagiarism. Nobody owns a standard patch. As little as they own a chord or chord progression. Besides, people recognize music when they hear music and will hardly be distracted by any of it.


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## Alex Niedt (Jul 13, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> I'd rather be the guy who submitted the one-patch wonder and collected a paycheck, than the composer of a masterpiece who made all my own sounds but never gets placed.


If you're serious, this illustrates perfectly why I want absolutely nothing to do with the music business


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## NekujaK (Jul 14, 2022)

Here's yet another way to look at it...

Hans Zimmer recently hired The Unfinished to design presets for the latest James Bond score.

I'm a composer too, but I can't afford to hire The Unfinished, however, I can do the next best thing - I can buy one of his preset packs and use some of the presets in my music!

I guess that makes both me and Hans lazy uncreative cheaters! Well, at least now I have something in common with Mr. Zimmer


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## Alex Niedt (Jul 14, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> I guess that makes both me and Hans lazy uncreative cheaters!


I've literally been saying the opposite. I was responding to the idea that anyone would rather make a one-patch thing for a paycheck than create a masterpiece. If I ever feel that way, it's time to quit music, but to each their own.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 14, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> Hans Zimmer recently hired The Unfinished to design presets for the latest James Bond score.


Wow, I didn’t know that. Way to go, The Unfinished!!


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## NekujaK (Jul 14, 2022)

Alex Niedt said:


> I've literally been saying the opposite. I was responding to the idea that anyone would rather make a one-patch thing for a paycheck than create a masterpiece. If I ever feel that way, it's time to quit music, but to each their own.


My post wasn't a reply to yours, it just happened to follow yours in the thread.

But to reply directly to your post, you are of course entitled to make music in whatever way and for whatever purpose is personally satisfying for you. I'm not advocating one approach over an other, but I wanted to make sure the OP wasn't made to feel that using presets is somehow cheating, lazy, or uncreative.

Some of us like to design our own sounds, while others use presets and existing instruments. All methods are valid. I just don't appreciate it when people are made to feel bad or less creative if they decide to use presets. Music can be successful on many different levels both from a creative and monetary standpoint.


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## NekujaK (Jul 14, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Wow, I didn’t know that. Way to go, The Unfinished!!


Yes very cool. You can read more about it on this blog post by The Unfinished. He was actually involved in both the Dune and Bond scores:






The Unfinished | Dune







www.theunfinished.co.uk


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## Thlian (Jul 14, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> have a female child, train her to sing at an early age and record her.
> 
> 
> If you are genuinely afraid of Scenario E, then you're making music for all the wrong reasons


I can accept the fact, see and agree that scenario E could be a reality, doesn't scare me either. Nor impossible, except the one above, been told that that's never going to happen. Unless I become a sugardaddy, but then I wouldn't be on this community though.
As long as it's constructive......🤓

My biggest critic is and have always been, myself. That 's why this thread was born, to tell the critical part of me that it's okay, it's perfectly fine and well accepted. Has he akwnoledged, he's gettin' there, slowly.....


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## Thlian (Jul 14, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> Here's yet another way to look at it...
> 
> Hans Zimmer recently hired The Unfinished to design presets for the latest James Bond score.
> 
> ...


He even steals from himself or was it others who made it. I've come to believe that is quite common to re-use parts of earlier work. Don't get me wrong, Mr Zimmer is Thug, that's why I bought tickets 1 year ahead.

But for those who haven't, check out the 50 first seconds of "One day" - POTC and "Gun barrel" - No time to die

Could an untrained ear determine which is which in 30 seconds or less? Or any body else for that matter?
Why not compare Pirates, Gladiator and Sherlock Holmes while we are at it 😉 Now that's some shady lazy stuff going on. But here comes my initial concern, it's at least his own work. (Or the one credited for it, something tells me he doesn't work alone)


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## TomislavEP (Jul 14, 2022)

The way I see it, presets are not only great starting points but also a valid inspirational tool. IMO, nothing wrong at all with using presets only, though it is also a benefit to know at least some basic programming skills. Sometimes it is actually faster to make a certain sound that you have in mind from scratch rather than hunting for it across the vast databases of sounds. Also, there is a creative aspect involved that can be refreshing from time to time.


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## John Judd (Jul 14, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> The instruments of the orchestra sound (roughly) the same for all composers, yet different composers use these instruments to create vastly different works. So I call BS on that sound palette one liner someone said.


To be honest, I think the quote was specifically geared towards synth type sound banks (Omnisphere, Zebra, etc) and encouraged sampling + creating your own source material. I’m not saying not to use them (of course we all do), but it did point to the question: would YOU sound more like YOU when using material that YOU had created?


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## John Judd (Jul 14, 2022)

For the couple folks in this thread where this is seemingly a touchy subject and provoked such a visceral-all-in-guns-out blazing reaction: please just take it easy. I’m not here to battle people, but it really does feel like people are here for that very purpose. VI is valuable food for thought to make us all better, not a battle ground.


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## Thlian (Jul 14, 2022)

John Judd said:


> To be honest, I think the quote was specifically geared towards synth type sound banks (Omnisphere, Zebra, etc) and encouraged sampling + creating your own source material. I’m not saying not to use them (of course we all do), but it did point to the question: would YOU sound more like YOU when using material that YOU had created?


Retorical? If not, guess that's a tough one.

To be clear that we all talk the same language. I wasn't talking about instrument libraries like bow on a string or lips on a horn. They aren't very......available, leave it to the pros......
I actually don't know where I am going with this 🥴
Okay, not only use the instruments, but the finished presets, not only the sound, but the whole loop.

Another analogy
I can steer the car to get where I want, but I'll drive a car with automatic to make the ride a bit easier. 🙄


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## Maxime Luft (Jul 14, 2022)

One of my favorite producers has a clear answer to this topic, super cool guy!


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## nolotrippen (Jul 14, 2022)

There will always be snobs and sniffers. I recall when Rick Wakeman started using presets because synths finally had them (yes, I'm that old). He didn't care. Neither should you.


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## Double Helix (Jul 14, 2022)

I suppose if one's conscience is nagging, shorten the release time by three milliseconds--voila! Now it's "bespoke"!


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 14, 2022)

Thlian said:


> Is it? Without even tweaking them, as a part of a mix? Is that cheating, not original or does it show a complete lack of creativity?


If the people who express this opinion are paying your bills, then you should follow their lead.

Otherwise, the test is whether it sounds good, no?


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## Thlian (Jul 14, 2022)

LatinXCombo said:


> If the people who express this opinion are paying your bills, then you should follow their lead.
> 
> Otherwise, the test is whether it sounds good, no?


They that pay my bills are so far from music as it can get 😂

Nope, no statements from other than myself 😉


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## Sirocco (Jul 14, 2022)

There are presets that simply are one of a kind and it is exact what someone wants, loves play with it and maybe compose with it, i never seen a problem, just the opposed; i´m especially sensible with textures prests with not usual intruments for me, lately i found in Lores, i.e., patches wich do exact what i like and need. Maybe i toch and move spatially some or eqing other but other times nothing, i use to do music, if ithat music is good, bad, meeh, is some that listener decide.

I remember a pile or years ago with the second or third Reason version that aside from the presets inside each rack, *there was 3 demos songs, separate seq to get familiar with the whole program.*

Kellogs company and their marketing dept. or whatever, decided to do a commercial with one of that demo songs (1 of the 3 wich was the only one with straight melody, rhyhtm bls, bla), just as plain as it sounds, they didn´t touch *anything*....every musician at the store or modern music academy said" hey!! come on!! is the f***** demo, the entery song, what a waste, shame!!!"...XD.

I don´t know if that part was free of loyalties or if they paid Propellheads...anyway, that was lazy and innocent stupid mistake; imo that´s what i call lazy cheating....it was Frosties cereals..

Well, in that era that demo songs were the first thing to manipulate the soft thar everyone used because it was sequenced parts pointing to different modules etc..., people was whisteling the melody from months...XD. And the incredible cunning and sagacity from the marketing commercials decide to put there 20s with a dancing lion..., mind readers of "composing" 

Salute!


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 14, 2022)

Thlian said:


> They that pay my bills are so far from music as it can get 😂
> 
> Nope, no statements from other than myself 😉


Then go forth and sin no more!


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## kitekrazy (Jul 14, 2022)

I find it funny how people that create music create all of these unwritten rules. There seems to be a great disconnect who are the listeners. We want to make something sound original (for me that means sounds like shit) to impress our forum buddies. You can watch plenty of Beato videos talking about how music sucks and those of us with some education in playing and creating get it. It's the listener who doesn't really care about that. These are people who listen to music on their phone speakers. 
There should be a course called Music Reality 101 but it would be taught by the wrong people.


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## kitekrazy (Jul 14, 2022)

Are We Entering The Age Of Bullshit Plugins? | Production Expert


Perhaps I need to change my social media settings, but it seems there’s a new plugin that does very little, hitting the streets every day!




www.pro-tools-expert.com


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## EanS (Jul 14, 2022)

Presets are for understanding their intention on developing X product. Even your TV has presets and that's the whole team who developed it telling you:

"Hey, this is a way we do it, use it for reference or change it to your liking"


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 14, 2022)

Technically, you're free to use whatever you like whenever you like
Legally, you may face trouble using presets that are accessed by thousands of composers. 

There are true legal issues stories happened to composers who used loops for instance. 

That's why the tweaking concept was born to make these presets yours.


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## Double Helix (Jul 14, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> That's why the tweaking concept was born to make these presets yours.


*bingo*


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## Jeremy Gillam (Jul 14, 2022)

Nothing wrong with using presets! I would suggest getting comfortable with adjusting/turning off effects though and learning how to tweak ADSR envelopes in your synths. That can go a long way to making a preset sit better in your piece.


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## NekujaK (Jul 14, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Technically, you're free to use whatever you like whenever you like
> Legally, you may face trouble using presets that are accessed by thousands of composers.


You can't copyright a preset, just like you can't copyright your guitar amp settings, just like you can't copyright EQ and compressor settings, etc...

Even if a preset could be copyrighted, by purchasing the synth or preset pack, you have license to use the preset in your music free and clear. The only thing you're prohibited from doing is packaging up the preset and/or source samples, and selling them as presets of your own.

If an individual instrument sound could be copyrighted, then everyone who's ever produced a piece of music with a Yamaha or Steinway piano, or a Stratocaster or Les Paul guitar, or a Virus or Juno synth is open to being sued.

Sounds themselves aren't copyrightable - only what you do with those sounds.


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 14, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> If an individual instrument sound could be copyrighted, then everyone who's ever produced a piece of music with a Yamaha or Steinway piano, or a Stratocaster or Les Paul guitar, or a Virus or Juno synth is open to being sued.


Guitars? really? haven't you heard about each famous guitarist has his own unique sound? Of course, they processed the incoming raw sound to make their own. They even have custom built multi-effects pedals from audio companies. I am not talking about copyright, I am talking about the thousands of composers who have access to the same LICENSED presets. Without processing, you're doomed. It's not me talking, it's the real world legal stories I read and watches in YT.


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 14, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Technically, you're free to use whatever you like whenever you like
> Legally, you may face trouble using presets that are accessed by thousands of composers.
> 
> There are true legal issues stories happened to composers who used loops for instance.
> ...


I'd imagine you'd find the copyright infringement matters that might apply here involved use of the *recorded loops* without authorization of the owner, and not because of specific settings used in the mixing and mastering of those loops.

E.g. using an 808 to create sounds like Marvin Gaye did in _Sexual Healing_ for your own song? Fine.

Using an 808 to create sounds like Marvin Gaye did in _Sexual Healing_..._and record your own version of _Sexual Healing_ without permission?_ Infringement.

If you have a case in American law that shows I'm off-base here, though, I'd be very interested in seeing it. I'm hardly an expert.


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## NekujaK (Jul 14, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Guitars? really? haven't you heard about each famous guitarist has his own unique sound? Of course, they processed the incoming raw sound to make their own. They even have custom built multi-effects pedals from audio companies. I am not talking about copyright, I am talking about the thousands of composers who have access to the same LICENSED presets. Without processing, you're doomed. It's not me talking, it's the real world legal stories I read and watches in YT.


Sure, most electric guitarists create their own tone thru amps, effects, and mods. But you can freely use those same settings without exposing yourself to legal action. Nobody "owns" those guitar tones, they're simply a bunch of knob settings.

The only valid basis for a legal claim in music is copyright, so if you're floating the idea that someone can get sued for using a sound, the only reason they could be sued is copyright infringement. But like I said, presets can't be copyrighted, so no legal action is possible.

But if I'm wrong, and it's truly the case that presets can be copyrighted, then I know exactly what I'm going to do: I'm going to create a preset pack that includes every possible permutation of knob settings for every soft synth under the sun, and then I will rule the preset world, because no one will be able to use any of those same settings without paying me first!!


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## Slap Happy (Jul 14, 2022)

I remember an opinion piece written by Craig Anderton in Electronic Musician magazine (late 90’s early 200’s?) that explicity said to never use presets. I can see why people read these things and develop a guilty conscious. I agree with the general sentiment here: use what inspires you, but try to make the end product uniquely yours. I think that combining presets well is a particular skill, like curating sound into something unique, or using colors right out of tube to paint with. 

A question I have, alluded to by MeloKeyz, regarding legal problems arising from using loops: has it ever happened that the first copyrighted user (or their label) sued anyone else that used said loop, successfully? Seems such lawsuits could be thwarted, but not without possible legal fees paid to lawyers. Could/has this also been done in the case of a distictive evolving pad or argeggio synth patch? Does YouTube’s algorythms flag your track as violating copyright by using a distictive evolving/arpeggiated preset? 

If I like a sound and feel I can do something with it, I do. I’ll worry about legal issues later, I guess. But it would be good to know what the legal situation is with such presets. Maybe that would compel me to tweak presets more, but then by how much? 10%? How do I measure 10%? Is this what Craig was on about?


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## Thlian (Jul 14, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Technically, you're free to use whatever you like whenever you like
> Legally, you may face trouble using presets that are accessed by thousands of composers.





MeloKeyz said:


> Technically, you're free to use whatever you like whenever you like
> Legally, you may face trouble using presets that are accessed by thousands of composers.
> 
> There are true legal issues stories happened to composers who used loops for instance.
> ...


That I did not know, not that I'm in the ball park for facing such issue. But I thought that all presets that comes with or as an extension pack belonging to a specific library, was royalty free?


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 14, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> Sure, most electric guitarists create their own tone thru amps, effects, and mods. But you can freely use those same settings without exposing yourself to legal action. Nobody "owns" those guitar tones, they're simply a bunch of knob settings.


Please let us skip the guitars part as the VI world is a different animal. We're talking about presets so let's stick with the preset discussion


NekujaK said:


> But if I'm wrong, and it's truly the case that presets can be copyrighted, then I know exactly what I'm going to do: I'm going to create a preset pack that includes every possible permutation of knob settings for every soft synth under the sun, and then I will rule the preset world, because no one will be able to use any of those same settings without paying me first!!


That's not what I meant. Let's take it slowly. We buy loops/phrases/presets from developers, right? The developers own the copyright and give you license to use them commercially. You, Steven, John, Scott, Jack, Adam and thousands of other composers use these same stuff, right? If Steven used an unprocessed preset called "Shiver Me Timbers" in a song and you used the same unprocessed preset in another song, Steven is going to sue you because you used the same sound. So, the suing is between the composers. Developers won't sue anyone here.

I am looking for the thread that I read about that composer who got sued from other composer because of that same synth patch. OK now, you're going to say that it happens once in a blue moon and I say "but it happens". Shit can happen once in a blue moon and targeting you lol


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 14, 2022)

Thlian said:


> That I did not know, not that I'm in the ball park for facing such issue. But I thought that all presets that comes with or as an extension pack belonging to a specific library, was royalty free?


The sample packs that you buy their licenses from their developers are all royalty free and can be used commercially. The problem lies between writers, not the developers. If two writers used the same preset, the game is to prove which one used it first. As a safety net and avoid all the hassles, I tweak presets and save them in my "USER" folder.


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## NekujaK (Jul 14, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> That's not what I meant. Let's take it slowly. We buy loops/phrases/presets from developers, right? The developers own the copyright and give you license to use them commercially. You, Steven, John, Scott, Jack, Adam and thousands of other composers use these same stuff, right? If Steven used an unprocessed preset called "Shiver Me Timbers" in a song and you used the same unprocessed preset in another song, Steven is going to sue you because you used the same sound. So, the suing is between the composers. Developers won't sue anyone here.
> 
> I am looking for the thread that I read about that composer who got sued from other composer because of that same synth patch. OK now, you're going to say that it happens once in a blue moon and I say "but it happens". Shit can happen once in a blue moon and targeting you lol


In your example, Steven and I both purchased the same license to the use the "Shiver Me Timbers" preset.

The only way either of us could sue the other is if we used "Shiver Me Timbers" to record the exact same melody. In fact, "Shiver Me Timbers" has nothing to do with it. He could've used a piano and I could've used a kazoo. What's important is the exact notes and timing of the melodic line.

If I used "Shiver Me Timbers" to play a slow 3-note melody in Am, and Steve used it to play a fast 5-note melody in F#, there would be absolutely no basis for either of us suing each other. We both have equal right to use "Shiver Me Timbers", and neither of us is infringing on each other's work.

An instrument sound is simply that - an instrument sound. It can't be copyrighted or "owned".

That's not to say someone can't decide to sue anyway, but it would be a frivolous lawsuit, and that can happen for any reason, not just sounds.


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 14, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> If I used "Shiver Me Timbers" to play a slow 3-note melody in Am, and Steve used it to play a fast 5-note melody in F#, there would be absolutely no basis for either of us suing each other. We both have equal right to use "Shiver Me Timbers", and neither of us is infringing on each other's work.


I swear I understand you very well but like I said, it is what it is. And it happened. I am looking for the damn article, give me a 10!

There ya go, 

Watch the whole thing


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 14, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Please let us skip the guitars part as the VI world is a different animal. We're talking about presets so let's stick with the preset discussion


What do you think a "preset" is? Honest question.


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## YaniDee (Jul 14, 2022)

And we haven't yet started a discussion on the "ethics" of using, what are basically presets, such as phrase and texture libraries (Sonokinetik, Sonuscore, SF Evos and Swarms, Arkhis, Hollywood Orchestrator, etc).


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 14, 2022)

YaniDee said:


> And we haven't yet started a discussion on the "ethics" of using, what are basically presets, such as phrase and texture libraries (Sonokinetik, Sonuscore, SF Evos and Swarms, Arkhis, Hollywood Oechestrator, etc).


That's what I mainly referred to when I said phrases and loop presets, they are disaster if not processed.


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## NekujaK (Jul 14, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> I swear I understand you very well but like I said, it is what it is. And it happened. I am looking for the damn article, give me a 10!
> 
> There ya go,
> 
> Watch the whole thing



Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to watch the entire video, but based on the title, it's not really talking about synth presets. Loops, beats, and hooks are a whole other animal that have been discussed in other threads quite vigorously.

I did jump around and listen to various parts of the video, and if you go to about 18:00 when Michael Levine starts speaking, he clearly says they're discussing loops and elements with melodic content, which you need to be careful with, but he has no problems using sounds and individual instrument samples.

In any event, when it comes to presets, everyone should do what they feel is right for themselves. If you feel nervous about potential legal exposure, then stay away from presets. If you feel presets somehow compromise your creativity, then definitely start tweaking away. But who's to say the patch you create doesn't match some other preset that's already out there?

Ultimately, what matters most and what listeners are going to care about are the notes you compose.

----EDIT----

Oh, and what about synths like Generate and Absynth that can randomly generate presets? On which side of the line do those presets fall? It's a neverending rabbit hole once you start obsessing over it...


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## EanS (Jul 14, 2022)

In the business world it's said "if you want your project to not succeed, sit a lawyer at a table"

In every project you start you always have to ask yourself "Am I going to make a music project or a lawyer's playground project?" Mindset is simple, just like "don't drink and drive" but people do it anyway, then claims innocence, why would you risk it then ?. Same happens with Copyright, but here it's overthinking to the max, no lives at risk here.

So one solution can be

Compose
Get properly credited, known and requested or yuck, famous
See if you get sued
Use the money you made for the lawsuit, no one sues a broke ass
Keep Composing, that's what you're in for, not legal projects.

Even though please look for Bebito Fiu Fiu), a song that went viral, still on YT, and well, listen to it yourselves what you think .




Save your anxieties for WW3 or something like that


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 14, 2022)

LatinXCombo said:


> What do you think a "preset" is? Honest question.


A punch of knobs/faders settings to produce a desired sound? What's the goal of the question?


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 14, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> I did jump around and listen to various parts of the video, and if you go to about 18:00 when Michael Levine starts speaking, he clearly says they're discussing loops and elements with melodic content, which you need to be careful with, but he has no problems using sounds and individual instrument samples.


Jump to Michele @ 23:00 and listen to her story. She used a stock sound in her 1985 keyboard that was sampled by James Brown. A stock sound in a keyboard is like a preset in VIs


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 14, 2022)

Guys, I even haven't mentioned the presets that developers sell based on famous movies. For example, preset that sounds like Interstellar or Rock Balboa's trumpets


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 14, 2022)

EanS said:


> In the business world it's said "if you want your project to not succeed, sit a lawyer at a table"
> 
> In every project you start you always have to ask yourself "Am I going to make a music project or a lawyer's playground project?" Mindset is simple, just like "don't drink and drive" but people do it anyway, then claims innocence, why would you risk it then ?. Same happens with Copyright, but here it's overthinking to the max, no lives at risk here.
> 
> ...



You're defo right but I am thinking ahead how to protect myself when I get famous lol


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## NekujaK (Jul 14, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Jump to Michele @ 23:00 and listen to her story. She used a stock sound in her 1985 keyboard that was sampled by James Brown. A stock sound in a keyboard is like a preset in VIs


I don't know all the details of that situation, for instance was the use of the sound the same in both songs, how exposed was it, etc. It also sounds like they might've been implying that she sampled the sound from the James Brown song. As long as she could prove where she got the sample, I think she could reasonably defend her position. Nowadays this would be much easier to defend, because we have DAWs and project files and soft synths that clearly show where sounds are coming from.

This isn't enough to deter me from using presets.


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## EanS (Jul 14, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> You're defo right but I am thinking ahead how to protect myself when I get famous lol


Why don't you test waters and take advantage of it with the social networks algos? If I upload a Bettelejuice mock Facebook will immediately tell me that "it has been partially muted due to..."

So you can create alternate social networks accounts and upload sections/bars of your already composed parts that have presets and see how the algorithm reacts, take note which and etc.


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 14, 2022)

Like I said guys, it happens once in a blue moon, maybe I am overthinking stuff. I am happy tweaking my presets and it doesn't take time from me or effort so I am on the safe side by default. If I find a preset that sounds awesome out of the box, I still very lightly tweak it to add my touch and preserve its original sound. However, loops/recorded phrases I tweak them heavily and bury them for added support. I bought TOC2 recently and the thing can't be used alone.

The industry is deceptive and you don't know what will happen due to its highly random competitions and the thousands of hands on the same samples we puchase.


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 14, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> A punch of knobs/faders settings to produce a desired sound? What's the goal of the question?


The goal is simply the pursuit of wisdom and knowledge in all forms.

To repeat: if you have an example of American case law or an article written by an American attorney familiar with American copyright law that explains why a bunch of knobs/fader settings to produce a desired sound, by itself, can infringe someone's copyright, please supply it.

Otherwise, I suggest that the knobs/fader settings are irrelvant. You can imitate the general sound of George Harrison's guitar in _My Sweet Lord_, but unless you're singing his lyrics or playing his song, you don't have to worry about being held liable for infringement.*

I'd worry more about the music you're creating OVERALL. I'd worry more about chord progression, or the status of the samples you're using, than EQ presets.

[DISCLAIMER: You can always get sued by anyone, of course, even if the other side doesn't have a leg to stand on. Risk of doing business.]








*By Ronnie Mack and his successors, of course.


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## David Kudell (Jul 14, 2022)

I often blend anywhere from 5-10 or more synth patches to create music for stuff like horror. By the time you mix and match all those sounds and frequencies you get something that is unique and nobody's going to pick out individual patches.

It also depends on where you are in your composing career. Those who are on big stuff want to imbue the project with a signature sound, so you'd hire someone to write custom patches (or design it yourself if you have the time/ability).

For a horror project I was on, the composer had someone create custom Zebra patches and we used those as well. The patches had lots of mods possible using the X-Y too, so they were very flexible and allowed you to shape the sound to match the onscreen action. So it was absolutely worth it, in my opinion.

And while that's great, I don't think you should worry about using presets at all, there's enough other things to worry about when you're starting out.

That also goes for "rules" in general. Whenever you hear someone say "you should do this" or "don't do that," you don't have to listen. Do whatever the heck you want, unless you want to sound like everyone else.


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## Polkasound (Jul 14, 2022)

Back in the day when I was recording more with live players, the guitarist, for example, would adjust his guitar pickups and amp settings and say, "I could play it like this... [adjust] or like this...[adjust] or like this... [adjust] or like this..." and give me options to choose from.

Presets are the same thing, except that you're the one cycling through options created for the library by a musician you never met.

As NekujaK stated earlier, musicians and everyday people don't listen to music in the same way. If a preset bothers you or another musician, it's totally understandable that you'd want to alter or embellish the preset for that reason. But if you're creating music for everyday people, you could create it with nothing but presets and no one will know or care.


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## Tim_Wells (Jul 14, 2022)

It's definitely not okay to use presets. All the cool kids will make fun of you behind your back. You'll never get invited to parties.


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## Living Fossil (Jul 14, 2022)

Thlian said:


> Is it? Without even tweaking them, as a part of a mix? Is that cheating, not original or does it show a complete lack of creativity?


The only question that matters in 98% of all cases is the question if it's the accurate sound for the specific thing.
So, more important than wondering wether to use or not to use presets is to train your inner ability to have a refined sense for the sound that is needed in a specific context.
(this, by the way, is something that will usually take some years).
Once you have a well trained gut for the appropriate sounds in certain contexts it will also be much easier to modify presets.
This could be something like modifying the filter cutoff, or the ADSR envelopes.
Or it could be the removement or variation of the effects a sound comes with.
Etc.

I work quite often with modified presets, but (maybe because my mind is stubborn and bossy) it's seldom that i will use an unmodified one. And if i do (what is mostly the case when i use an older hardware synth like the JP-8, which only stores a couple of patches) I will usually apply some EQing and effects.

I mentioned 98% of all cases. The remaining 2% concerns the question if you should use a sound like "Digital Native Dance" (preset 21 or similar on the D-50). In that case i'd say, don't use it. Or use it, if it fits the situation.
If i remember correctly, Junkie XL used a very well known Synclavier sound which was used in Michael Jackson's "Beat it" (or another song?) in the Deathpool score. That sound with all memories attached was absolutely fantastic a gave the score a cool spin.


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## ChrisHarrison (Jul 14, 2022)

Kenny Beats was just saying how good sounds are a cheat code. I agree. A lot of great chefs use canned tomatoes picked at peak season. They often beat out fresh tomatoes.


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## Saxer (Jul 15, 2022)

There are great synth sound designers out here who spend their life making cool presets and sell it ... and then nobody should use them?


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## nuyo (Jul 15, 2022)

I'm not a sound designer. If I spend 20 minutes on every sound I use I won't write anything.


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## c0nsilience (Jul 15, 2022)

Using presets isn't "cheating" any more than using orchestral sample libraries is over being able to play an orchestral instrument or using real orchestral musicians.

It all really boils down to how you use the creative tools at your disposal. If a preset inspires you, go for it! If it inspires your intended audience, even better. 🙂


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## SupremeFist (Jul 15, 2022)

I use presets all the time (being very much in the "hey, I'm a composer not a sound designer" camp), but I don't think I've ever used a single preset absolutely "as-is", ie without changing something at least in the envelopes or filter. And I probably tweak more now having learned more about synthesis than I used to know. Then by the time you eq to fit in your arrangement and add effects it can be pretty far from the original sound. But thank you to preset designers everywhere! 🤘🏻


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## AceAudioHQ (Jul 15, 2022)

NekujaK said:


> It's not cheating to use presets. There are some people who might say it is - ignore them.


Usually the ones who say it, never get any music done, they just make their own sounds


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## Thlian (Jul 15, 2022)

LatinXCombo said:


> [DISCLAIMER: You can always get sued by anyone, of course, even if the other side doesn't have a leg to stand on. Risk of doing
> business.]
> 
> 
> ...


I'm so happy that inside these borders we can knock on any door we want, and can't ever be sued for giving someone on the inside trauma because they dont like strangers. PS! Not that this is a thing, not even kids find that ring-the-doorbell-and-run prank funny anymore.

Sorry 'bout that digretion, carry on....


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## Thlian (Jul 15, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> I use presets all the time (being very much in the "hey, I'm a composer not a sound designer" camp), but I don't think I've ever used a single preset absolutely "as-is", ie without changing something at least in the envelopes or filter. And I probably tweak more now having learned more about synthesis than I used to know. Then by the time you eq to fit in your arrangement and add effects it can be pretty far from the original sound. But thank you to preset designers everywhere! 🤘🏻


I don't the initial goal is to use a preset as-is, they would either be tweaked or as part of a multitrack added effects and EQ'ed. I guess that sometimes there will be a sound that will be like, "wow, awsome! I have to use this, it fits just perfect." But as stubborn as I am, almost childishly, have to touch, just a little bit 😉

As a FYI, I don't have any context to make or create any music to. I have to go out and film my cats playing or the misses working in the flower bed. NO! I'm just sucking up wisdom, watch YT vidoys and so on and so on. Maybe there are projects out there to practice with, but since I'm not a good player yet. I feel I have to wait to create. Learn the piano properly first, or any instrument for that matter, but I choose the piano. There is the stubborness again.


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## EanS (Jul 15, 2022)

Thlian said:


> *I have to go out and film my cats playing or the misses working in the flower bed*. NO! I'm just sucking up wisdom, watch YT vidoys and so on and so on. Maybe there are projects out there to practice with, but since I'm not a good player yet. I feel I have to wait to create. Learn the piano properly first, or any instrument for that matter, but I choose the piano. There is the stubborness again.


These presets


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## Thlian (Jul 15, 2022)

EanS said:


> These presets



Cool 😎
Only problem, starting already to get too much to play with. If there is a such things as too much? That's probably debatable as well😂


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 15, 2022)

Saxer said:


> There are great synth sound designers out here who spend their life making cool presets and sell it ... and then nobody should use them?


We say not to use them "as-is", not not to use them at all


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## MeloKeyz (Jul 15, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> It's definitely not okay to use presets. All the cool kids will make fun of you behind your back. You'll never get invited to parties.


Again, another deviation from the topic. We're not saying to NOT TO USE PRESETS. We say not to use them "AS-IS"


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## Bman70 (Jul 15, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Again, another deviation from the topic. We're not saying to NOT TO USE PRESETS. We say not to use them "AS-IS"



As-is is the best way to use an expertly designed preset by an industry master. Why else would you "hire" him / her? We don't need to ruin a perfectly crafted sound or beat just out of youthful pretensions of originality.


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## timbit2006 (Jul 15, 2022)

I once listened to a song and I could tell it was using preset 0056 from HypoidSphere SupaSynth and from there I have lost all respect for that artist.


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## NekujaK (Jul 15, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Again, another deviation from the topic. We're not saying to NOT TO USE PRESETS. We say not to use them "AS-IS"


So please enlighten me, what's the prescribed amount a preset has to be modified before it's no longer considered "AS-IS"? Is turning the filter knob by 10hz enough? Is changing the Attack by 5ms enough? Is changing the release on the filter envelope by 5ms enough? Is moving the graintable slider by 10cents enough?

What's the magical amount by which a preset must be modified before all the judgmental music intellectuals deem it acceptable to use?

And don't say I have to change the waveform or source sample, because then it's no longer even the same sound.

What if a preset as-is fits perfectly in my mix and doesn't require any further tweaking to integrate perfectly into my composition? Am I supposed to modify the preset anyway and basically ruin it just because of a mythical unwritten rule that presets can't be used as-is?

And what if I use a synth that generates presets randomly? Am I also required to modify the random presets before I can use them?

Where does this silliness end?

I spend money to buy presets from some of the best sound designers in the industry. Why on Earth would I want to screw up their fine work by tweaking knobs for no good reason?


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## Saxer (Jul 15, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> I once listened to a song and I could tell it was using preset 0056 from HypoidSphere SupaSynth and from there I have lost all respect for that artist.


Why?

I actually feel more cheating if I use a well designed preset with fine modulations and effects that I don't even understand and change the waveform and filter settings just to make it "my own".


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## AlexRuger (Jul 15, 2022)

My favorite reverb is the default preset of Valhalla VintageVerb. Don't worry about it, anywhere you turn is a knob is valid, whether you turned it or the writer of the plugin did or someone was paid to make the preset.

Trust me, your favorite composers either use presets or hire people to make presets for them _all the time._


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## timbit2006 (Jul 15, 2022)

Saxer said:


> Why?
> 
> I actually feel more cheating if I use a well designed preset with fine modulations and effects that I don't even understand and change the waveform and filter settings just to make it "my own".


That was supposed to be satire


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## Saxer (Jul 16, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> That was supposed to be satire


Sure. But satire contains a grain of truth.


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## Thlian (Jul 17, 2022)

Why not show you what I mean as well 
Gives a better picture. 
Disclaimer: I have NO experience in this, and I like taking things out of context, that also applies for sound 

PS! The invited might guess where this comes from


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