# Listening to Film Music as a Film Composer



## ryanstrong (Oct 20, 2015)

I was recently watching the previous Hollywood Reporter video talking with a round table of the industry's biggest film composers and the question was asked if they listen to film music and they all shrieked as if it were to be a sin to listen to film music.

Why is this? It wasn't really addressed. Is it because they have been in the game for so long that they are bored with it? Do they not want to be influenced by it? Or are they just being pretentious?

Given that the modern day greats recoil at the thought of listening to film music... what does that say about me (us) that do enjoy listening to film music?


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## KEnK (Oct 20, 2015)

It doesn't surprise me.
I have friends who I used to jam with.
They would diligently record and listen to every session.
I could never stand it.
To me it was like watching a video of a game you just played. Why?
Similarly, it used to take me a long time to want to listen to anything I'd done.
This is less so now, but I was only able to hear how it should be better-
and I had already moved on from one creative act to the next.

Something I've also noticed- sound people rarely want to listen to music.
It's just not a pleasurable thing for them- it's "work".

that's my take on it-
or maybe they know that film music sucks.

k


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## tokatila (Oct 20, 2015)

They must be too busy lounging in their Jacuzzis and counting their money with some voluptuous vixens.


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## Rctec (Oct 21, 2015)

...If I want to listen to new Film-music, I'll just have to listen to the temp in the next project I'm on 
No, that's just a joke... But seriously, I think all of us on that panel started out listening to anything but film-music, then went through a phase of listening to a lot while we where learning and excited about the possibilities film gave us, and now - well it's back to loving the huge variety and quality of music from the past to music that's being made right now.
I must confess to having the occasional Morricone or John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith binge listening. But I'm more a Beethoven/Jeff Beck/Kraftwerk/Thomas Ades/Manu Chao/Mahler/Clash/Zawinul/Brahms/Elgar type of guy...


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## murrthecat (Oct 21, 2015)

Rctec said:


> ...If I want to listen to new Film-music, I'll just have to listen to the temp in the next project I'm on
> No, that's just a joke... But seriously, I think all of us on that panel started out listening to anything but film-music, then went through a phase of listening to a lot while we where learning and excited about the possibilities film gave us, and now - well it's back to loving the huge variety and quality of music from the past to music that's being made right now.
> I must confess to having the occasional Morricone or John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith binge listening. But I'm more a Beethoven/Jeff Beck/Kraftwerk/Thomas Ades/Manu Chao/Mahler/Clash/Zawinul/Brahms/Elgar type of guy...



Ah, Zawinul! Weather Report, Syndicate or for larger forces?
And do you listen to other Italian composers other than Ennio, film and non?

Alessandro


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## ryanstrong (Oct 21, 2015)

Rctec said:


> But seriously, I think all of us on that panel started out listening to anything but film-music, then went through a phase of listening to a lot while we where learning and excited about the possibilities film gave us, and now - well it's back to loving the huge variety and quality of music from the past to music that's being made right now.


Makes total sense, and I can see that.

By day I'm a fashion photographer and when I was first starting out I was obsessing over the latest Annie Leibovitz or Mert and Marcus but now that I am becoming more confident in what I am doing I guess I do find myself not really caring so much about the latest fashion campaign.

It's an interesting discussion!


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## jacobthestupendous (Oct 21, 2015)

Obviously we have an answer when one of the greats actually answers. 

My dad was a classical pianist, and there would be bits of soundtracks that he would love, usually from Star Wars or Indiana Jones, but by-and-large his opinion seemed to be that music for film was less music than music for music (if that makes sense). Film score exists in service of something else, where classical music has to stand on its own. I imagine most of the heavy hitters started out as students and lovers of classical music with opinions not entirely unlike my dad's.


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## AlexandreSafi (Oct 21, 2015)

Personally, I take film music very seriously... There are so many things about this very genre amongst the whole that commends anyone to have a deep respect for it, but I'll have to admit: This year has probably been the first year, since 3 years old I think, where I've listened to practically so few film scores! I didn't feel too happy about that! I thought first I'd just been too busy practicing my Beethoven sonatas that i really didn't take the time to listen to anything! Then I realized "what am i supposed to listen to?..."

My continuous state of mind always allows me to remain humble and appreciate, even learn from what other people do differently, musically or whatever else, I take a regular daybreak to see what SoundCloud has to offer, but... however I'll have to say... With our dear amazing James Horner just recently gone too soon, once people like John Williams, E. Morricone, Vangelis, Hans Zimmer, James Newton Howard, Thomas Newman, Danny Elfman, Alan Silvestri, & a few, --FEW-- others... are also gone-
I think film music, but maybe (and i hope I am not overstating the matter..) even the entire future of new orchestral music, since the days of Vienna, with that kind of craft, will be in even more serious trouble, and i believe people seem to conveniently forget that, as an excuse for not trying hard enough themselves...

Sure today there are people today with very different aesthetic from one another, but then I weirdly believe in this one aesthetic that all great composers have which is simply the "good vs. bad music" aesthetic that one can only get through serious self-evaluation and of what it is that you're doing with your work, you either get it or not...

I am firmly starting to believe great music is rare not because it's rare, but because unnoticed mediocrity goes by every day...
-A.-


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## givemenoughrope (Oct 21, 2015)

I mostly listen to film scores from the 60s/70s. Twilight Zone, late Herrmann, Nino Rota, prime Morricone, some Goldsmith and Lalo. Other than that a lot of dub, string quartets and electronic music (ala Warp records). Still like rock...Melvins, ACDC, Etc....but I think jazz has taken over again. Jimmy Giuffre/Miles(all eras), Stan Getz bop stuff and Focus, Chris Speed, Mark Turner, Bill McHenry, Zorn, Ribot, etc

Although if Beethoven comes on KUSC I have to listen to the end...even if I'm sitting in the car.


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## ryanstrong (Oct 21, 2015)

AlexandreSafi said:


> With our dear amazing James Horner just recently gone too soon, once people like John Williams, E. Morricone, Vangelis, Hans Zimmer, James Newton Howard, Thomas Newman, Danny Elfman, Alan Silvestri, & a few, --FEW-- others... are also gone ... will be in even more serious trouble, and i believe people seem to conveniently forget that, as an excuse for not trying hard enough themselves...



I'm not sure I believe that. I mean... if I truly believed that, then I would say we've been in trouble since Ravel has been gone!


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## ghostnote (Oct 21, 2015)

Personally I love to listen to things like "Welcome to lunar industries" by Clint Mansell, the "Dreams and Imaginations" Stuff from Bergersen or even "Time" from his Hansness. I think that those examples are kind of a compromise, soundtracks you can enjoy because they can stand on their own, they work without the picture. Besides that, there is SOOOO much to learn just by listening to all of those excellent composers...


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## H.R. (Oct 21, 2015)

Almost every day I listen to one or two new soundtrack album. I rarely listen to anything else other than film music. and I have good reasons for it:

1. It's really good music.
2. It gives me ideas in life without the distracting words of a singer.
3. Definitely helps me learn the craft.
4. Reminds me of the feeling I had watching a good film.

But it's strange that the number of soundtracks that can fully satisfy me is growing short, so maybe this quote of the master is true:

"I think all of us on that panel started out listening to anything but film-music, then went through a phase of listening to a lot while we where learning and excited about the possibilities film gave us, and now - well it's back to loving the huge variety and quality of music from the past to music that's being made right now."

Currently there is a party in my head with Manu Chao.


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 21, 2015)

1. It's really good music. (Not as good as Ravel or Stravinsky)
2. It gives me ideas in life without the distracting words of a singer. (Ravel and Stravinsky wrote lots of music without singers)
3. Definitely helps me learn the craft. (Not as well as studying a Ravel or Stravinsky score while listening to it)
4. Reminds me of the feeling I had watching a good film. (I'll give you that one


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## cmillar (Oct 21, 2015)

This is rich!.... I've just been asked to write music for a show opening and themes that should sound like Hans Zimmer!

(.... I always doff my hat to you, sir RcTec... total respect for your artistry and musical intentions in service of whatever project you're working on.... just sayin' on behalf of many people! )

I, too, listened to a ton of film music years ago, and immersed myself in any film music I could get at the time (on cassettes and CD's in the early '90's!)

And, when I get to hear and really listen to a superb recording of music from 'Man of Steel', 'Inception', or something else by Mr. Zimmer, I can't help but appreciate all the work that has gone into the fine details of how the drums sound, how the mixing is, how wonderful the 'live/real' guest musicians are, how well orchestrated the score is (thank you Bruce Fowler, from one trombone player to another!) and much more, etc. etc.

Also, I happen to think that the rising-intervallic motif in 'Man of Steel' is some of the finest music-for-film that I've ever heard.

So, yeah, I think indulging in listening to film music (once in awhile) is great for all of us composers... even if our work isn't solely for the world of film. There are some real gems of creativity to be discovered!


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## JonFairhurst (Oct 21, 2015)

cmillar said:


> This is rich!.... I've just been asked to write music for a show opening and themes that should sound like Hans Zimmer!



As a joke, you could use a choir and repeat the following Word Builder entry...

h a! n z - s i m r!

"Can't you hear it? It sounds like Hans Zimmer, just like you asked!"


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## Parsifal666 (Oct 29, 2015)

I've been listening to film soundtracks for most of my life, starting with Goldsmith's Boys From Brazil, Apocalypse Now, The Omen...huge fan of Goldsmith early on. I was a big fan of the Who as a boy, and remain one to this very day. I consider Tommy through Quadrophenia to be artistic masterpieces.

These days I listen as I always did, soundtracks, classics, Rock/Metal. Hans Zimmer, Krzysztof Penderecki, Brian Wilson, Paul McCartney, and Pete Townshend are my favorite living composers. But I listen to Wagner, late era Beethoven, Suffocation, Manowar, Deicide, John Lennon, Schoenberg, Black Sabbath, Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow, Killbot, King Diamond, Ulrich Roth's Scorpions, Mahler's 9th...


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## samphony (Oct 29, 2015)

Occasional I do listen to scores but seldom. I try to avoid to listen to anything Hans and the whole bunch is doing (it's in temps anyways) . Not because I don't like it just to avoid to mimic what's going on there. I'm totally into John Adams, Phil Glass and just recently saw a Sasha Waltz performance with music by Toshio Hosakawa (brilliant stuff).


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## Jaap (Oct 29, 2015)

I mostly just listen to music...sometimes it's going beserk on Faith no More, or find some inner peace while listening to Kancheli, feel some weltschmerz with Mahler or feeling free and inspired by Zimmer's "Now we are free" or having my guilty pleasure moments with listening to Madonna or Mika (not joking here  )
When I was just starting with music I also listened with the ears to learn a lot and it helped really good, but nowadays I listen again with just my desire and feelings and that often brings a lot of unexpected moments of ideas because I am not searching, but just open to my feelings (whatever they are at that moment)


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## MA-Simon (Oct 29, 2015)

Well, I would not call myself a composer. But I listen to 4-8h of soundtracks every day. I am a concept artist at a game design company. It just comes with the job. I can not, not listen to something while drawing. That said: Music does get stale eventually. Even the greats. All in all, I tend to listen to more game soundtracks though.
The new Assassins Creed Syndikate Soundtrack by Austin Wintory is superb!


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## Kralc (Oct 29, 2015)

MA-Simon said:


> The new Assassins Creed Syndikate Soundtrack by Austin Wintory is superb!


Yeah!! I still think it's awesome that a score this niche would be possible on a AAA game and tentpole title for Ubisoft.
Also:


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## TheUnfinished (Oct 30, 2015)

I'd say that maybe a third of the music on my iPod is soundtrack music. And very often that is on there because of a sound design project I'm working on, more than that I'm listening specifically to the music.

For pleasure, I'm far more likely to listen to some neo-classical or ambient electronica music. But then it serves a different purpose doesn't it? And yet, at the same time, perhaps not. Taking the methods, moods and tricks from non-film soundtrack (or western classical music) genres into my music when writing to picture simply feels more interesting to me. But that's not to say I won't occasionally dip into them.

I'll take a hundred different paint colours into a project and the most useful/relevant ones will get used, whatever genre they're from.


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## AR (Oct 30, 2015)

I listen to every sort of music I like, but I only have time on my way to work. I rediscovered right now the music of Riyuchi Sakamoto. Not the soundtrack stuff, more so the concert stuff.


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## ryanstrong (Oct 30, 2015)

Listening to the new Justin Beiber right now........ I actually dig the synthy woodwind ethnic sound on _What Do You Mean_.


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## dcoscina (Oct 30, 2015)

I'm enjoying re releases of classic scores and discovering some Herrmann scores I'd never heard before. But generally I listen to mid 20th century orchestral repertoire. Of current scores I'm really enjoying are Horner's Pas De Deux (concert work), Zimmer's Interstellar (plays like programmatic concert piece to me), and Williams' Tintin and War Horse scores.


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## Kralc (Oct 31, 2015)

ryanstrong said:


> I actually dig the synthy woodwind ethnic sound on _What Do You Mean_.


*checks if there's no one else around* ...so do I.


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## Baron Greuner (Oct 31, 2015)

I'm not really in anyway shape or form a film composer, but I like to get Jerry Goldsmith on occasionally. In the car for example. Yes he was a great filmscore writer but he was also brilliant at this type of scoring, which is arguably film music anyway. He could do great things with smaller ensembles and knew how to time scenes with falls and build ups as well as anyone. A brilliant writer.


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## Parsifal666 (Oct 31, 2015)

Baron Greuner said:


> I'm not really in anyway shape or form a film composer, but I like to get Jerry Goldsmith on occasionally. In the car for example. Yes he was a great filmscore writer but he was also brilliant at this type of scoring, which is arguably film music anyway. He could do great things with smaller ensembles and knew how to time scenes with falls and build ups as well as anyone. A brilliant writer.





He is awesome, love his music. I was jamming on Boys From Brazil when I was very young, and The Omen is arguably the greatest horror soundtrack ever imo.


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## givemenoughrope (Oct 31, 2015)

I listen to a lot of Morricone (all eras/genres), the Howard Shore non-blockbuster stuff, Twilight Zone...a lot of scores from the 60s and 70s like Goldsmith, Jerry Fielding, David Shire, Lalo etc... also Cliff Martinez, Hannibal, Zodiac, Breaking Bad...for me it's as much about the film as it is the composer when listening to the score on its own just like it's more about the film when watching and listening to the film.


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## Baron Greuner (Oct 31, 2015)

Parsifal666 said:


> He is awesome, love his music. I was jamming on Boys From Brazil when I was very young, and The Omen is arguably the greatest horror soundtrack ever imo.



Strangely he didn't really understand why The Omen did so well for him. I believe it beat Taxi Driver by Bernard Herrmann at the Oscars that year (Herrmann was up posthumously) which segueways brilliantly into this. 



It's all New York tonight folks!!


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## robgb (Aug 27, 2016)

Rctec said:


> But I'm more a Beethoven/Jeff Beck/Kraftwerk/Thomas Ades/Manu Chao/Mahler/Clash/Zawinul/Brahms/Elgar type of guy...



For me it's Chopin/Jeff Beck...


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## mwarsell (Sep 15, 2016)

I tend to alternate between classical and film score. When I'm tired, it's a film score, when I'm more fresh it's a classical piece. One needs to know what's going on and also what has been going on.


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## Mike Fox (Sep 15, 2016)

I mainly write horror music, but I very rarely listen to it for enjoyment. I usually just refer to it to see how certain things are done. I mainly listen to new age and female vocal dubstep, which is a far cry from horror music.


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## Parsifal666 (Sep 16, 2016)

robgb said:


> For me it's Chopin/Jeff Beck...



Wagner/Beethoven/Tony Iommi/Schoenberg/Bartok/Uli Jon Roth.



mikefox789 said:


> I mainly write horror music, but I very rarely listen to it for enjoyment. I usually just refer to it to see how certain things are done. I mainly listen to new age and female vocal dubstep, which is a far cry from horror music.



I used to just plain dislike EDM and Dubstep, but my younger wife helped me get into those genres. I learned more than a bit about both production and fat kicks from Electronic Music, and I've written in that vein for my next album, with Dubstep as part of the personality of one of the characters.


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## Kejero (Sep 16, 2016)

mikefox789 said:


> I mainly listen to new age and female vocal dubstep, which is a far cry from horror music.



Not for some people


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## Mike Fox (Sep 16, 2016)

Kejero said:


> Not for some people





Oh, c'mon now...How can you not like this?




My wife calls it my Victoria's Secret music.


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