# Libraries market



## augustof (Apr 6, 2018)

Hi guys.
It's there a source or any estimation on what kind of virtual instruments are the most demanded?
I know is a general question, but I'm starting a small operation here and need some kind of guidance and opinions.
My intuition says (virtual instruments, not loop libraries):

1. Acoustic pianos?
2. Orchestral?
3. Hip hop/ dance/ electro drums?
4. Synthes
5. ......

[UPDATE]
Found this on google trends. 

*Category: All categories
vst: (4/6/17 - 4/6/18, Worldwide)*

*guitar vst *21%
*vst synth *17%
*drum vst *16%
*vst piano *15%
*vst bass *14 %


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 6, 2018)

Your best bet? Write library music in all of those genres, you just never know what a client is looking for. I license music in all of those styles, and it's about even.


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## Dr Belasco (Apr 6, 2018)

If you think of library music in terms of virtual instruments, you've got no chance.


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## d.healey (Apr 6, 2018)

I think he's talking about what kind of sample libraries are in demand, I guess he's wanting to start developing them.

I think if you're trying to break into the market for profit, rather than just creating libraries for your own use that you also sell, then you should target the niches. World music/ethnic instruments are very popular.


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## robgb (Apr 6, 2018)

Strings. We need more string libraries.


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## mc_deli (Apr 6, 2018)

robgb said:


> Strings. We need more string libraries.


Big brands
Big small strings
Lots of players
Weird artics
Game changers


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## Daryl (Apr 6, 2018)

More string libraries are not necessary. There are enough that all do the same ting. What is needed, in my view, is a string library that makes using multiple articulations easier. It's become pretty obvious, in my orchestration work, that the composer demos that sound worst are the ones where large number of consecutive, different articulations need to be used. It seems that even if it's possible to make the demos sound good, nobody has the time to spare. So a new strings library that makes this easy would be a game changer.


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## givemenoughrope (Apr 6, 2018)

Daryl said:


> More string libraries are not necessary. There are enough that all do the same ting. What is needed, in my view, is a string library that makes using multiple articulations easier. It's become pretty obvious, in my orchestration work, that the composer demos that sound worst are the ones where large number of consecutive, different articulations need to be used. It seems that even if it's possible to make the demos sound good, nobody has the time to spare. So a new strings library that makes this easy would be a game changer.



Not sure I understand. Can you give an example?


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## augustof (Apr 6, 2018)

Yes!!! That's it. Thank for decoding my terrible English.


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## Dr Belasco (Apr 6, 2018)

Daryl said:


> More string libraries are not necessary. There are enough that all do the same ting.



If you read that in a Dalek voice, it makes perfect sense.


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## augustof (Apr 6, 2018)

d.healey said:


> I think he's talking about what kind of sample libraries are in demand, I guess he's wanting to start developing them.
> 
> I think if you're trying to break into the market for profit, rather than just creating libraries for your own use that you also sell, then you should target the niches. World music/ethnic instruments are very popular.




Thanks! This is so helpful. I live in Argentina (South America). A place plenty of ethnic local instruments that have never been samples (Bombo Legüero, Rococo[kinda small charango guitar], and many others...)

I'm not thinking in profits by the moment since I'm just starting, but want to use my time wisely


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## augustof (Apr 6, 2018)

givemenoughrope said:


> Not sure I understand. Can you give an example?


Totally agree! I think this happens on many libraries. I mean, demos sound great, but playing the actual instrument is a pain. Maybe focusing on playability is a good way to create something new in this saturated industry.


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## augustof (Apr 6, 2018)

Dr Belasco said:


> If you think of library music in terms of virtual instruments, you've got no chance.


I already have no chances  but will try anyway. Can you explain a bit more your insight? I think there's something I'm missing


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## augustof (Apr 6, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Your best bet? Write library music is all of those genres, you just never know what a client is looking for. I license music in all of those styles, and it's about even.



Thanks!!! very helpful. The thing is that I have limited resources and time and need to choose my firsts shoots carefully. Making 10 instruments and run A/B tests for all of them will take me 10 years


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## R. Soul (Apr 6, 2018)

Augustof:
There's a million piano and strings libraries out there. Perhaps a better idea would be to sample some of your local instruments? I'm not sure how big the sample library market is in South America, but at least you'll provide something unique. I mention South America cause those instruments are probably too niche for US/Europe to sell much.

This is for example the only Roncoco sample library on the market AFAIK. It's free though.
https://www.samplephonics.com/products/free/free-virtual-instruments/ronroco#


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## Daryl (Apr 6, 2018)

givemenoughrope said:


> Not sure I understand. Can you give an example?


Just try sequencing the 1st Violin part of the first 16 bars, or so, of Eine Kleine and you'll get a taste of what I'm talking about.


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## givemenoughrope (Apr 6, 2018)

Daryl said:


> Just try sequencing the 1st Violin part of the first 16 bars, or so, of Eine Kleine and you'll get a taste of what I'm talking about.



Right, ok. So more lengths of and variations of shorts (and connected shorts) and marcatos? Or maybe a library that can do that well with Kontakt’s Time Machine. (Spitfire has that but I haven’t tried it enough to know how it really sounds.)


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## augustof (Apr 6, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> Augustof:
> There's a million piano and strings libraries out there. Perhaps a better idea would be to sample some of your local instruments? I'm not sure how big the sample library market is in South America, but at least you'll provide something unique. I mention South America cause those instruments are probably too niche for US/Europe to sell much.
> 
> This is for example the only Roncoco sample library on the market AFAIK. It's free though.
> https://www.samplephonics.com/products/free/free-virtual-instruments/ronroco#



Yes! that would be a nice shoot. Local instruments. Don't really know the Latin American market size, but maybe a Latin focused brand, in Spanish, and instrument with a local touch. 


https://www.samplephonics.com/products/free/free-virtual-instruments/ronroco# sound great on solo strings and arpeggios


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## wst3 (Apr 6, 2018)

The library I am still looking for is a brass section for pop/rock/funk - everything from clarinet and trumpet to trumpet/trombone/sax to T.O.P.

Someone comes up with that and my wallet comes out!!!


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## augustof (Apr 6, 2018)

wst3 said:


> The library I am still looking for is a brass section for pop/rock/funk - everything from clarinet and trumpet to trumpet/trombone/sax to T.O.P.
> 
> Someone comes up with that and my wallet comes out!!!



Mee too  Many attempts for that. And brasses virtual instruments still sound unnatural. Creating such an expressive instrument as a sax with just note on/off and velocity and some cc is huge challenge i think.

Do u sequence brasses note by note like in a piano roll?, or playing the phrases along like in a real sax/trumpet/clarinet take?


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## Daryl (Apr 6, 2018)

givemenoughrope said:


> Right, ok. So more lengths of and variations of shorts (and connected shorts) and marcatos? Or maybe a library that can do that well with Kontakt’s Time Machine. (Spitfire has that but I haven’t tried it enough to know how it really sounds.)


It's not a number of articulations. i can sequence anything, given enough time. It's the speed of putting them together that is elusive.

I think that part of the problem is talking about "shorts" and "marcatos", which don't actually exist, except in the minds of sample library developers. Music is not like that, and the tools for creating sample based music are currently snippets of recordings, crudely tacked together. There needs to be something much more intelligent.


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## givemenoughrope (Apr 6, 2018)

Daryl said:


> It's not a number of articulations. i can sequence anything, given enough time. It's the speed of putting them together that is elusive.
> 
> I think that part of the problem is talking about "shorts" and "marcatos", which don't actually exist, except in the minds of sample library developers. Music is not like that, and the tools for creating sample based music are currently snippets of recordings, crudely tacked together. There needs to be something much more intelligent.



And I agree...but the paradigm of “shorts” and “marcatos” is the one we’ve been forced into and currently still mostly have as users of sample libraries. I would say it’s not just the speed of putting them together but the also ability to put them together...to hear the difference or even be going for that to begin with. If I were an algorithm (and I’m not saying that I’m not...I hope I’m not...although the more I use the internet in general the more I feel like I am) I would only suggest something that currently already exists like the time machine option or playing everything in with Sample Modeling. I couldn’t fathom a Sample Modeling String Section coupled with a VI that has an “intelligent” way of only playing “shorts” the way they’d be played with a bow across an actual violin/cello. Maybe that’s done with modeling or as many different variations between staccatissimo and portato as neccesary or both or maybe a violin-shaped controller. It would also require a Daryl to make sure it’s correct and playable.

As the sample developer/user/mockup-er standard of “shorts” and “longs” (with a few variations tossed in between) becomes more and more the only way orchestras are written for in film scores (they mostly are now it seems, at least at the multiplex) the harder it is to imagine that that is not how it’s supposed to sound to most people (you know, unless you listen to orchestral music that wasn’t concieved under the limitations of samples). Tail chasing the dog or something. (I’m only vaguely aware of Hip Hop after 1997 but the trend of rhythm sections imitating sequenced beats hasn’t gone away. The fact that it’s a thing at all is a bit strange too especially since those beats have snippets of old records in them.)

So, what do you suggest/envision?

Some of me thinks that maybe it’s all fine the way it is and the diminishing returns thing is where we’re at. Let samples be stiff and limiting. They are one level of expression and an actual orchestra playing music not written for or with samples is another. It will keep real players playing and you orchestrating/interpreting bad mockups. Most of me wants the tools to get much better in order to allow much more expression...which will (or could) allow for more “orchestrally-concieved” (as opposed to “sample-limited”) mockups to be approved and then heard in the multiplex. And then maybe we’ll get back to the scores of the last century and move on. 

I didn’t need that last espresso, no.


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## robgb (Apr 6, 2018)

Pianos. More pianos. Has anyone ever sampled a Steinway or Yamaha? That's the ticket.


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## robgb (Apr 6, 2018)

Sorry. Honestly, I feel as if just about everything has be done and done to death and done well. Unless you can come up with some new kind of scripting that makes the library REALLY playable, then it seems to me it's just an exercise in redundancy.


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## augustof (Apr 6, 2018)

Daryl said:


> It's not a number of articulations. i can sequence anything, given enough time. It's the speed of putting them together that is elusive.
> 
> I think that part of the problem is talking about "shorts" and "marcatos", which don't actually exist, except in the minds of sample library developers. Music is not like that, and the tools for creating sample based music are currently snippets of recordings, crudely tacked together. There needs to be something much more intelligent.



You nailed it.


robgb said:


> Sorry. Honestly, I feel as if just about everything has be done and done to death and done well. Unless you can come up with some new kind of scripting that makes the library REALLY playable, then it seems to me it's just an exercise in redundancy.



That's true. But... Im basically a piano player and never found a virtual piano that satisfies me. I mean for 2 or 3 days I enjoy a new piano library. Then I get tired of it. Never happened the same with a real piano.
Maybe making alive instruments, don't know maybe a piano that changes on a daily basis, based on weather, or daytime, or humidity... Sounds crazy and foolish. I think there's always room for innovation


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## wst3 (Apr 6, 2018)

augustof said:


> Do u sequence brasses note by note like in a piano roll?, or playing the phrases along like in a real sax/trumpet/clarinet take?



I play them in most of the time, and then correct for my sloppy keyboard chops<G>!

For me the piano roll view is decent enough for editing MIDI data, but I can't really think like that (need bars and spaces between them), and a notation view is not detailed enough, and so I play them in.


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## Arbee (Apr 6, 2018)

wst3 said:


> The library I am still looking for is a brass section for pop/rock/funk - everything from clarinet and trumpet to trumpet/trombone/sax to T.O.P.
> 
> Someone comes up with that and my wallet comes out!!!


Does Samplemodeling not do it for you?


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## kitekrazy (Apr 6, 2018)

Some things just can't be emulated well.


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## wst3 (Apr 7, 2018)

Arbee said:


> Does Samplemodeling not do it for you?


No, the closest I've come thus far is with Chris Hein Horns Pro, but it isn't close enough to print yet. I keep working with it in the hopes that I'll get there.

And I'm the first to admit that it could be my writing, although I've transcribed some of my favorite horn charts, make that tried to transcribe, I haven't been happy with the results.

It is equally possible that such a small ensemble evades emulation with today's technology, not unlike all the effort that goes into emulating a string quartet.


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## SoundChris (Apr 7, 2018)

Solo String Libraries like Joshua Bell sampled from various artists to nail various genres. Players are very different in their performance. So @Embertone if there were more libraries like Josh Bell with different characters (Itzak Perlman, Anne-Sophie Mutter, Yo Yo Ma, Gidon Kremer, Yehudi Menuhin, Hilary Hahn, Misha Maisky, David Oistrakh - but of course also Jazz violinists and other genre heroes) I would want them all <3


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## will_m (Apr 8, 2018)

I'd love a really deep sampled ronroco, there are a few smaller libraries on the market but I've not found one I love yet.


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## Mark Schmieder (Dec 18, 2020)

For Ronroco, there is now this excellent deep-sampled authentic library, released last week:



https://vi-control.net/community/threads/the-ronroco-vst-for-kontakt.102724/


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## gsilbers (Dec 18, 2020)

Daryl said:


> It's not a number of articulations. i can sequence anything, given enough time. It's the speed of putting them together that is elusive.
> 
> I think that part of the problem is talking about "shorts" and "marcatos", which don't actually exist, except in the minds of sample library developers. Music is not like that, and the tools for creating sample based music are currently snippets of recordings, crudely tacked together. There needs to be something much more intelligent.



If imnot mistaken, Hollywood strings has a patch that combines these diffeerent short notes and can be changed via the mod wheel. from stacstisismo to long marcato o or something. 

LASS has a cool patch that has marcato and sustains combined so its like a spiccato that stays on. 
i thik its called sustained marcato. 

each new articulation is tons of work. from recording to editing to mapping. spitfire i think has a way to make up your own keyswitches. and they have a huge amount of articulation in their symphonic. 
like feathered spicc and different tremolo. 
worse of course if you dont use keyswitches, its different tracks. so its pita to program. but yeah keyswitching is about the fastest now. Maybe a midi footpedal to change articulations?


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## gsilbers (Dec 18, 2020)

robgb said:


> Sorry. Honestly, I feel as if just about everything has be done and done to death and done well. Unless you can come up with some new kind of scripting that makes the library REALLY playable, then it seems to me it's just an exercise in redundancy.



thats what everyone says... always..

and then a new string or piano library comes out and it gets tons of buzz.. always. 

just look at that new LA modern scoring strings. or the last few string libraries that came out.


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## AudioLoco (Dec 19, 2020)

SoundChris said:


> Solo String Libraries like Joshua Bell sampled from various artists to nail various genres. Players are very different in their performance. So @Embertone if there were more libraries like Josh Bell with different characters (Itzak Perlman, Anne-Sophie Mutter, Yo Yo Ma, Gidon Kremer, Yehudi Menuhin, Hilary Hahn, Misha Maisky, David Oistrakh - but of course also Jazz violinists and other genre heroes) I would want them all <3


Yes, I would love those too!
I have noticed my favourite solo strings are Bell and Guo. 
Personality of the player is actually really important for a sound of a library. These reallly good and recognized players are giving a large extra to the sound and usability at least in a solo context. 

It's not only the recording and scripting and room and not even the actual instruments being sampled (NI Stradivari gets eaten alive by Joshua for example). So if doing a solo instrument I guess getting the best player you can afford makes a big difference.


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## AudioLoco (Dec 19, 2020)

We got mostly all the bread and butter we need available, and doing another string library can prove difficult to nail even for veteran huge companies such as Orchestral Tools. 
Unless there is some big new shtick or innovation with these kind of releases I don't see the marketability.
(the best legatos ever, the best studio ever, being able to really perfrom credible runs without runs patches)

-I think there is some demand for evolving acoustic organic instruments like Sunset Strings or Sospiro Strings.
-Ethnic World instruments are on the rise in demand, but more on the Oriental-Asian front.
-It is really funny that guitar libraries are the more in demand ones as kids stop buying guitars and "guitar music" has become an insult meaning "old" amongst some young people.
- A really cool and realistic and cutting edge virtual singer could be very marketable. 

Looking forward to Dulce de Leche Orchestra, Asado Cello, and D10s Brass!
Que le vaya bien !


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## robgb (Dec 19, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> thats what everyone says... always..
> 
> and then a new string or piano library comes out and it gets tons of buzz.. always.
> 
> just look at that new LA modern scoring strings. or the last few string libraries that came out.


It gets buzz, then you buy it and realize that it's, maybe, 1% better than your other five string libraries and you spent a lot of money for nothing. Unless, of course, the scripting is brilliant. Then it might be worth the cost.


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