# How do you add so much RAM?



## Ed (Jun 1, 2010)

Noob question...

I went on Dell's website the other day and went to the customisation bit where you can choose what stuff you want in it. So I choose the best motherboard they have and it says it can't hold more than 4GB of RAM? And yes this thing was apparently 64bit

How on earth do you add so much RAM??


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## handz (Jun 1, 2010)

At first I never ever going to buy anything from DELL because it is mega-overpriced.

Its an error in their online form or just some old motherboard.


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## C M Dess (Jun 1, 2010)

Check out the precision/xps/ line. Sounds like you're looking at optiplex or insipiron. I if you buy the flagship precision, load it with 2 chips you can load 192GB of Ram...is that enough?


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## hbuus (Jun 1, 2010)

Ed, if I was to build a machine from scratch today, I would get this motherboard from ASUS (model name is P6T Deluxe V2):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131365

It holds 24 GB max. which seems to be the standard currently, and the motherboard is prepared for 6-core CPUs. This means you can add a Core i7-920 now and then switch it to a 6-core later on when these become less expensive.

For RAM, I'd get Corsair or Kingston. Make sure it fits the motherboard (check PC-XXXX).

For power supply, I'd get the same PSU I bought for my current setup, an Enermax PRO 82+ (EDIT: Or one of the new Enermax 87+'s):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

For harddrive, I'd get a Western Digital.

For graphics card, I'd get something relatively cheap that is not fan cooled - I'd probably find a card from ASUS.

For case...not sure. Not too expensive though.

If you stick with quality stuff like the above, you should end up with a good configuration which you will be happy working with.

Best,
Henrik


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## C M Dess (Jun 1, 2010)

That mobo doesn't support USB3....that's gonna be kinda important don't you think?

A motherboard is always the limiting factor, this lack of expandability doesn't change just because you built your own system. The socket changes complicate expandability. The only thing worth expanding is usually the CPU. The dell T7500 has 1 billion possible configurations...literally. He should just get something lick that, use the option to remove included software bundles. But it also doesn't have USB3. 

Some of the custom daw places are building systems with USB3 for what it's worth.


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## synthetic (Jun 1, 2010)

I recommend ordering from a company that knows how to build machines for audio like Vision DAW or someone like that. It's worth the extra money to have someone tweak the system, turn off all of the extra Windows junk, make sure the video card doesn't have some weird driver that conflicts with audio software, install a quiet fan, put it in a rackmounted case, etc. etc.


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## C M Dess (Jun 1, 2010)

synthetic @ Tue Jun 01 said:


> I recommend ordering from a company that knows how to build machines for audio like Vision DAW or someone like that. It's worth the extra money to have someone tweak the system, turn off all of the extra Windows junk, make sure the video card doesn't have some weird driver that conflicts with audio software, install a quiet fan, put it in a rackmounted case, etc. etc.



The price for this system seems fair considering all they've done and the kind of support you'll get.
http://visiondaw.com/productcart/pc/con ... roduct=611


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## synthetic (Jun 1, 2010)

I really like my Vision DAW system. Nice guys. A few Remote Control composers have purchased their systems there.


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## gsilbers (Jun 1, 2010)

Windows?!? Yuk!

Try a used quad core mac pro. Very good priced.

But if u like windows then try

hp 180 elite (or190)

or

try www.magicmicro.com

or search a little, find out visiondaws components and buy/build it youself at newegg


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## JohnG (Jun 1, 2010)

but one of the things you buy from VisionDaw is a guarantee that the computer will work for what you want -- music. You can't get that from Newegg, who don't offer _any_ customer service at all.

I hear you on building them, but the OP doesn't seem likely to go that way to me.


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## C M Dess (Jun 1, 2010)

Is it about time for a reputable list of DAW computer builders here at VI? Why don't those guys advertise here?? REALLY! This question is popular. I wonder why this thread is not in the DAW section.

Here's a starter list:::::

Apple (they get to be on the list because they make a proprietary daw system).
VisionDaw
Sweetwater
PC Audio Labs
Open Labs
ADKProAudio
Sonica Audio Labs
Rain Recording
Reyniers Audio
Directre Solutions (UK)
Digital Village dv247 (UK)

You just have to focus less casually on any of these sites and you can see they've given away a lot of their design secrets should you have a few months to build your own.

Also a question was asked at gearsluts inquiring about DAW builders, most chose Apple, go figure. Apple's Achilles heal (besides price) is the time it takes them to upgrade their systems, leaving power users committed/chained down, in a feverishly changing environment.


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## C M Dess (Jun 1, 2010)

These companies are doing several things as far as I can see:

Using premium motherboards (best connections and bus speed), tested to be compatible.
Tweaking Windows visuals, features and it's "services" -- using optimized Windows versions.
Checking/Researching compatibility of video cards and onboard video with the digital audio environments and software.
Setting up RAID and other/or back-up software.
Creating custom restore solutions.
Dedicated support from people who know audio
Tweaking motherboard features.
Troubleshooting design conflicts.
Using hand-picked parts (saving research time).
Using quite case designs (ventilation) and quiet cooling. Some have added extra sound dampening features.


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## Ed (Jun 2, 2010)

Thanks for all the advice!

The thing about VisionDaw is that I am in the UK, otherwise I would have probably gone with them...

Anyone know of a good similar UK music company?

When I get enough money for this I may invest in a Mac, but if it was from a company like VisionDaw I could be tempted into a PC again.


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## Dom (Jun 2, 2010)

I'm happy with my PC slave from DARC http://www.directresolutions.co.uk/

It's very quiet, rackmounted, has currently 24Gb RAM and can go up to 128Gb RAM. They configured everything for me, installed all the VSL symphonic cube, vienna ensemble etc etc. Phone support was good too.

I am really a Mac person, but I think for a slave, a PC is perhaps better. 

edit: if you're in London you're welcome to drop by and see it.


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## C M Dess (Jun 2, 2010)

If you're a member of SOS you can access this article about a DARC system:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar10/a ... matele.htm

More:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec08/a ... ergypc.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb09/a ... rdawpc.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul07/a ... nimbus.htm


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## gsilbers (Jun 2, 2010)

Ed @ Wed Jun 02 said:


> Thanks for all the advice!
> 
> The thing about VisionDaw is that I am in the UK, otherwise I would have probably gone with them...
> 
> ...



ill just remention used mac pros prices are very good. i just saw a 2009 mac pro quad for $1600. (8gb ram. )


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## tfishbein82 (Jun 2, 2010)

I just ordered from ADK/Sonica. It's honestly the most money I've ever spent on a computer, but I have a feeling it will be well worth it. I spoke to Scott (owner) a few times, and he made sure I got set up with what I wanted and needed.

I thought about an HP, and then I thought about building my own, and I ultimately realized that the money I'd save wouldn't make up for the time I'd spend building, tweaking, and ultimately realizing I never got the system working as well as ADK would. I've made the wrong choice before, and have learned over the past several years that upfront investment can save a lot of pain in the long run.

Special mention to *synthetic* for selling me an RME 5652 at a great price!


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## Stephen Baysted (Jun 2, 2010)

Dom @ Wed Jun 02 said:


> I'm happy with my PC slave from DARC http://www.directresolutions.co.uk/
> 
> It's very quiet, rackmounted, has currently 24Gb RAM and can go up to 128Gb RAM. They configured everything for me, installed all the VSL symphonic cube, vienna ensemble etc etc. Phone support was good too.
> 
> ...



Likewise, I bought my latest machine from DARC. There's also another possible solution for you Ed - pm me and I'll talk it through with you. 

Cheers

Stephen


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## Dan Selby (Jun 3, 2010)

Ed,

I've always built my own systems, most recently I added an i7 930, 12GB. However, I think that this will be the last time. As John said, the time you need to invest each time to get current and research all the best components for what is quite a niche need type of system is significant.

If I were ordering today I would, without hesitation, get Pete Gardner at Scan to build one of their audio systems. I bought most of the components for my last machine from Scan after loads of advice from Pete. In case you haven't come across Scan before, they are one of the big UK component and system sellers so their prices are very keen. They advertise their systems regularly in Sound on Sound. Pete is an audio guy and is incredibly knowledgeable about PC bits and building. He went above and beyond in advising me of the bits to buy before hand and then, when there was a very unusual problem with my system (ended up being a bad batch of memory controller chips on the ram sticks that were everywhere for a few weeks and only caused problems when 12GB was installed) he was superb and spent hours sorting it all out.

It still cost me a lot of time and frustration, though.

Next time, I would just tell him what I was looking for and buy a complete system from Scan. It would cost a bit more but the saving in time and the peace of mind that the whole system will be soak tested very thoroughly before I received it and the knowledge that when it arrives you can just get to work are, I now think, well worth it.

Drop me a PM if you want his email and contact.


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## drumman (Jun 3, 2010)

This info has been very helpful! Thank you.

*gsilbers,* you mentioned the HP 180 Elite. This is the system I first came across when looking into higher end computers. It's the same specs that Dan mentioned (i7 930, 12GB) and about where I'd like to be, but not an "official" DAW. May I ask if you own this, or have experience with it? The price is right. It comes with bloatware, undoubtedly, but I think I could remove most of it. Would I then have at least a semi decent computer? (And, yeah, I know about Mac stuff. Friend of mine uses it exclusively. I'm just pretty entrenched in the PC world, but it's serving me ok.)

Other comments on this system, anyone?

I'm a hobbyist. I want something fast and reliable, but may not have to spend the extra $ for a custom DAW (although I'm not opposed to it either).

Keep the info coming. It's been very useful.


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## tfishbein82 (Jun 3, 2010)

I asked Peter Alexander about the HP 180 Elite. In particular I was interested in hard drive bays. I think HP only lets you configure a system with two drives, but Peter believed that there's room for a third in the case. òÖ¾   Öb2Ö¾   Öb3Ö¿   Öb4Ö¿   Öb5ÖÀ   Öb6ÖÀ   Öb7ÖÀ   Öb8ÖÀ   Öb9ÖÀ   Öb:ÖÀ   Öb;ÖÀ   Öb<ÖÀ   Öb=ÖÀ   Öb>ÖÀ   Öb?ÖÀ   Ö[email protected]ÖÀ   ÖbAÖÀ   ÖbBÖÀ   ÖbCÖÀ   ÖbDÖÀ   ÖbEÖÀ   ÖbFÖÀ   ÖbGÖÀ   ÖbHÖÀ   ÖbIÖÀ   ÖbJÖÀ   ÖbKÖÀ   ÖbLÖÀ   ÖbMÖÀ   ÖbNÖÀ   ÖbOÖÀ   ÖbPÖÀ   ÖbQÖÀ   ÖbRÖÀ   ÖbSÖÀ   ÖbTÖÀ   ÖbUÖÀ   ÖbVÖÀ   ÖbWÖÀ   ÖbXÖÀ   ÖbYÖÀ   ÖbZÖÀ   Öb[ÖÀ   Öb\ÖÀ   Öb]ÖÀ   Öb^ÖÀ   Öb_ÖÀ   Öb`ÖÀ   ÖbaÖÀ   ÖbbÖÀ   ÖbcÖÀ   ÖbdÖÀ   ÖbeÖÀ   ÖbfÖÀ   ÖbgÖÀ   ÖbhÖÀ   ÖbiÖÀ   ÖbjÖÀ   ÖbkÖÀ   ÖblÖÀ   ÖbmÖÀ   ÖbnÖÀ   ÖboÖÀ   ÖbpÖÀ   ÖbqÖÀ   ÖbrÖÀ   ÖbsÖÀ   ÖbtÖÀ   ÖbuÖÀ   ÖbvÖÀ   ÖbwÖÀ   ÖbxÖÀ   ÖbyÖÀ   ÖbzÖÀ   Öb{ÖÀ   Öb|ÖÀ


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## drumman (Jun 3, 2010)

tfishbein82 @ Thu Jun 03 said:


> I asked Peter Alexander about the HP 180 Elite. In particular I was interested in hard drive bays. I think HP only lets you configure a system with two drives, but Peter believed that there's room for a third in the case. He also thought that the Power Supply would probably need to be upgraded if you added a third hard drive (giving you separate system, audio, and sample drives).
> 
> If noise is a concern to you, keep in mind that an HP model won't have any of the acoustic treatments that a custom DAW builder would include.
> 
> I think the biggest thing you'll miss though is support. The major DAW builders (ADK/Sonica, VisionDaw, etc.) provide lifetime tech support. And if you've been working with music software for any period of time, you probably know how frustrating things can get. It's nice to know that there will always be experts to support me when I'm trying to get things working.



I would just use one drive probably. I understand about the power supply. The quieter the better, of course, but noise is not critical. And yes, support is nice.

Here's what I'm wondering: For around $1200 with the HP, I get the specs I'm after. I de-bloatware it, then use it for music and audio (Sonar, Trilian, Kontakt...). OR, for $800-$1200 more I get a DAW with the same specs, de-bloatwared, optimized, etc. _Is it worth the extra $? Will I get a substantially better system and experience?_


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## synthetic (Jun 3, 2010)

Yes, it's worth the extra money to get a good PC built for you. I thought I could build a great Giga system. I could call the engineers who wrote Giga for help. But I still had odd problems with my system until I got a Vision DAW system. Those guys know their stuff.


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## José Herring (Jun 3, 2010)

synthetic @ Thu Jun 03 said:


> Yes, it's worth the extra money to get a good PC built for you. I thought I could build a great Giga system. I could call the engineers who wrote Giga for help. But I still had odd problems with my system until I got a Vision DAW system. Those guys know their stuff.



That may have been true, but times have changed. I've had several long conversations with a Vision Daw tech and he readily admits that it's now easier than ever to build your own. I tinkered around for a while with upgrades and stuff until I got confident enough to build my own machine from the ground up and it has been a rock solid work horse.

Really unless you are super busy and have a boat load of cash laying around it's well worth the effort to learn how to do it yourself. You could have a 3 killer computer setup for the price of one modest Vision Daw.


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## synthetic (Jun 3, 2010)

GigaStudio is especially tempermental, it's the Lamborghini of samplers.  I still say they know which motherboards, video cards, etc. to use.



> I've had several long conversations with a Vision Daw tech and he readily admits that it's now easier than ever to build your own.



Clearly this guy was not in sales.


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## José Herring (Jun 3, 2010)

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## drumman (Jun 3, 2010)

Thank you JohnG and synthetic. I'm leaning toward an actual DAW, and I agree with the "buy quality" advice. Which is interesting because almost everything else I buy (from household items to musical stuff) I do so with that philosphy. So I'm not sure why I'm having such a discussion with myself over this. Oh, well maybe $ has something to do with it.

I definitely would not be building my own for now. Time is a factor and I need a little more courage. (I know, I know, it's not that bad. I just don't need one more project right now.)

Could I derail the topic again?

In all my searching around for DAW's, I forgot about the sound card. _Do you need a sound card that is 64 bit compatible?_ I have an old M-Audio Quattro which works ok and a Tascam US144 which I actually haven't used yet. Will these work with a 64 bit machine?

I see RME recommended quite a bit. Pricey, though. Anything in the $100-$150 range. Is an external or internal device recommended?

Thanks, all. I usually just research stuff on my own, but this thread has been very helpful. It's hard to research hands-on experience.


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## José Herring (Jun 3, 2010)

No. Those sound cards won't work unless they come with 64bit drivers. And, therein lies the problem you'll have. A Daw is more than just a computer and if you're going to buy and expensive prebuilt DAW the last thing you want to do is hamper its performance with a cheapo sound card. Layla 3 G is probably as cheap as I would go. They are great cards as also the Firewire versions. But would highly recommend RME or better.


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## drumman (Jun 3, 2010)

josejherring @ Thu Jun 03 said:


> No. Those sound cards won't work unless they come with 64bit drivers. And, therein lies the problem you'll have. A Daw is more than just a computer and if you're going to buy and expensive prebuilt DAW the last thing you want to do is hamper its performance with a cheapo sound card. Layla 3 G is probably as cheap as I would go. They are great cards as also the Firewire versions. But would highly recommend RME or better.


Thanks. But, man, this discussion is costing me more and more hard earned dough! Any pro DAW's out there for, like, $500 or something?


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## José Herring (Jun 3, 2010)

drumman @ Thu Jun 03 said:


> josejherring @ Thu Jun 03 said:
> 
> 
> > No. Those sound cards won't work unless they come with 64bit drivers. And, therein lies the problem you'll have. A Daw is more than just a computer and if you're going to buy and expensive prebuilt DAW the last thing you want to do is hamper its performance with a cheapo sound card. Layla 3 G is probably as cheap as I would go. They are great cards as also the Firewire versions. But would highly recommend RME or better.
> ...



At that price no. But you could get a killer machine for about $800 if you decide to take the challenge. :twisted:


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## synthetic (Jun 3, 2010)

We have 64-bit drivers for your US-144. Download here:

http://www.tascam.com/products/us-144;9,15,70,19.html

You can always upgrade your interface later if you need to.


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