# Sample Modeling has been busy....



## LHall (Dec 14, 2018)

I'm excited about this. 

https://www.samplemodeling.com/en/teaser_strings.php


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## lucor (Dec 14, 2018)

Nice!! On the first listen it sounds a bit more organic than the SWAM strings to me. I hope we'll get to hear more very soon!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 14, 2018)

LHall said:


> I'm excited about this.
> 
> https://www.samplemodeling.com/en/teaser_strings.php



Thanks, wow the expression is great, definitely interesting..but what is that with that huge reverb there going on? :D


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## LHall (Dec 14, 2018)

Seems about right to me given the venue being emulated. Looks to be a large cathedral perhaps.


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## Hanu_H (Dec 14, 2018)

Sounds great! But I am not sure if I want to see the amount of work and CC curves to get it sounding like this. :D

-Hannes


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## Bill the Lesser (Dec 14, 2018)

That video takes music into the uncanny valley. Google it. I personally found it disturbing. The track by itself is impressive, but the concept of overwriting a real performance is somehow creepy. IMHO.


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## Hanu_H (Dec 14, 2018)

Bill the Lesser said:


> That video takes music into the uncanny valley. Google it. I personally found it disturbing. The track by itself is impressive, but the concept of overwriting a real performance is somehow creepy. IMHO.


I don't find it creepy but I understand that it fools the ear better when you see someone actually playing the instruments. So I actually listened this without watching the video.

-Hannes


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## Vardaro (Dec 14, 2018)

I'm putting all my planned purchases on hold while I wait for this!


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## Lee Blaske (Dec 14, 2018)

Bill the Lesser said:


> That video takes music into the uncanny valley. Google it. I personally found it disturbing. The track by itself is impressive, but the concept of overwriting a real performance is somehow creepy. IMHO.



That's pretty common these days. Lots of promotional videos for VIs have sounds of the VIs over videos of live players. I actually think it leads to making the brain think it's more real. Best to just listen, and not watch.


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## Casiquire (Dec 14, 2018)

So far I don't hear the tone issues that I normally associate with SWAM except for in some of the higher notes. I'd like to see and hear more examples.


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## Lee Blaske (Dec 14, 2018)

Just did a careful listen of the video demo with headphones. I own all the current AudioModeling strings, so I'm pretty familiar with what they've done so far. I don't think I can make any judgements from the sound of this video. The reverb might be in the ballpark for the environment we're seeing, but it's a really dense and short reverb on the demo. If I were going to do a demo of the current AudioModeling strings, that's EXACTLY the kind of reverb I'd put on them, in sufficient quantity, to mask what I find lacking in modeled instruments. They just don't have the complexity, spaciousness and depth of the real thing. Lots of reverb will hide that.

But what I DO really love about AudioModeling and SampleModeling instruments is how easy they are to play expressively, and in a connected manner. You can really PLAY them without tons of key switching, and they feel so much more immediate under your fingers. A LOT less work to cobble a part together. I'm interested to hear what these new instruments sound like before the verb is piled on. I really do think that modeled instruments are the future. We just need some really fancy models.


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## Batrawi (Dec 14, 2018)

I can't like what I'm hearing. Seems that strings and modelling just don't work together - not any time soon specially if the lead company in this field are still not getting it right.


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## HelixK (Dec 14, 2018)

"A paradigm shift for virtual instruments where realism and playability share equal value."

Sorry I don't share your excitement, this is still too synthy... modeled strings just don't work for me. 

The original performance


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## clisma (Dec 14, 2018)

It's remarkable.

Having said that, the tone is too dark in the demo. The playability of the Solo Violin is outstanding but even so, the definition of the rosin, the attack on those very quick repeating notes is missing. It may be all selectable to a degree in the interface, after all SM are know for giving you access to so many of these parameters and then leaving it up to you to put it all together to make it shine.

For me the real disappointment though is not in the solo violin, but rather in the accompanying strings around the 1 minute mark and beyond: those repeated notes heavily hint to the limitations of the instruments, like so often with repeated notes on strings. Same thing when they start hitting the very fast repeated notes around 1:14.

Still, remarkable.


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## TGV (Dec 14, 2018)

Not a fan of the sound either. Their brass sounds mightily impressive, but this just feels flatter. The dynamics are off, the attacks on the celli are weak, the solo is one long, muffled slur. The fact that that solo can be played at that speed is admirable, but it is indeed in the uncanny valley.


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## Nicola74 (Dec 14, 2018)

Waiting for the walkthrough, very interested about how it will manage divisi...


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## novaburst (Dec 14, 2018)

This will be something to keep an eye on, hopefully the learning curve is not to difficult to get realism, developers like these can really lead the way of change, looking forward to it


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## JeeTee (Dec 14, 2018)

I have to say, i'm not hearing 'realism' to any degree here. It's as if they've all forgotten to rosin their bows for a month, and then inexplicably decided to play everything sul tasto (over the fingerboard). The players in the video are all playing period instruments, which sound very different to modern ones. Are they modelling period instruments? Confused I am!

Listening to the original performance tells you all need to know.


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## ism (Dec 14, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> So far I don't hear the tone issues that I normally associate with SWAM except for in some of the higher notes. I'd like to see and hear more examples.



I'm Curious how you'd compare the tone here with your experience of CH solo strings?


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## Fa (Dec 14, 2018)

Guys, just to be clear, it's actually NOT physical modeling, and has nothing to do with SWAM or AudioModeling at all (they separated careers long time ago). It's actually the Samplemodeling last generation of Kontakt Virtual Instruments: if you are curious about technology, just read the information on the producer web page.

P.S. for detractors, of course they are always welcome to show if they can do it better with their tools and their skills. We all just aim to improvement, and learning.


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## MarcusD (Dec 14, 2018)

It sounds like the bit-rate for the video has been compressed and affected the audio? Or maybe they exported the video at the wrong settings. Can't quite put my finger on it. Have to wait and see..


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## Casiquire (Dec 14, 2018)

ism said:


> I'm Curious how you'd compare the tone here with your experience of CH solo strings?



It's difficult to compare from just that one demo. I love SM's horns but I think instruments regularly played with vibrato are trickier to model (for lack of better term, I know samples are in use here) and maintain expression. I'd love to hear more examples particularly in a solo context. This has me very interested overall.



Fa said:


> Guys, just to be clear, it's actually NOT physical modeling, and has nothing to do with SWAM or AudioModeling at all (they separated careers long time ago). It's actually the Samplemodeling last generation of Kontakt Virtual Instruments: if you are curious about technology, just read the information on the producer web page.
> 
> P.S. for detractors, of course they are always welcome to show if they can do it better with their tools and their skills. We all just aim to improvement, and learning.



Distinction noted, and I think that's why I prefer the tone here so much. These sound good based on the limited amount I've heard.


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## jaketanner (Dec 14, 2018)

It sounds good on it's own. However, if compared to the original live video, it's worlds apart in basically everything. I thought it was a bad move on Samplemodeling to use this live performance. They would have been better off using the library with an original performance. This actually works against them I think.


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## dflood (Dec 14, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> It sounds good on it's own. However, if compared to the original live video, it's worlds apart in basically everything. I thought it was a bad move on Samplemodeling to use this live performance. They would have been better off using the library with an original performance. This actually works against them I think.


I have to agree. I was quite liking the emulation until I listened to the original. The actual performance they are emulating is a real barn burner, and very nicely recorded. We're a long way from capturing that with VIs. Overall, there is a brightness and blistering attack in the original performance that is lacking in the emulation. You can also hear much more discernible body tones and bow rosin in the original. Truly great string performance emulations, particularly solo and chamber, are a tough nut to crack, but good on them for trying. Tone is everything though.


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## MusicIstheBest (Dec 15, 2018)

HelixK said:


> "A paradigm shift for virtual instruments where realism and playability share equal value."
> 
> Sorry I don't share your excitement, this is still too synthy... modeled strings just don't work for me.
> 
> The original performance



Wow, thanks for posting that. Didn't want it to end. The Four Seasons tends be treated like wall paper these days, but it really is remarkable music, especially when performed like that.


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## dflood (Dec 15, 2018)

Despite falling pretty far short of the outstanding original performance, I’m still interested to see and hear more.


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## Fa (Dec 15, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> It sounds good on it's own. However, if compared to the original live video, it's worlds apart in basically everything. I thought it was a bad move on Samplemodeling to use this live performance. They would have been better off using the library with an original performance. This actually works against them I think.



Well I think there's a misconception here. And the fault is for sure of the wrong statement into the Web Site page: this was NOT intended to be a simulation of the original at all. Personally I think the original is often too dark and noisy, due to the style (very staccato) and the sound of the original strings. The reason to show the Video was to connect gestures to sound, so you may realize what fingering, bowing and position is supposed to produce the flawless variation of articulations, and not making an acoustic copy of the original at all.


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## jaketanner (Dec 15, 2018)

dflood said:


> I have to agree. I was quite liking the emulation until I listened to the original. The actual performance they are emulating is a real barn burner, and very nicely recorded. We're a long way from capturing that with VIs. Overall, there is a brightness and blistering attack in the original performance that is lacking in the emulation. You can also hear much more discernible body tones and bow rosin in the original. Truly great string performance emulations, particularly solo and chamber, are a tough nut to crack, but good on them for trying. Tone is everything though.



I was thinking about this, and it could also very well be whoever did the mockup. I hear things in the mock-up dynamically they could’ve been far better executed but maybe it was the time constraints to get the product out?


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## eli0s (Dec 15, 2018)

I can hear some artifacts and overall the dynamic range is clamped, but the sound is very promising, as an owner of the original stradivari and godfriler I want to believe they will make a hit with this installment. I own the now audiomodeling strings but I am not satisfied with their tone.
We will have to wait and see.


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## WhiteNoiz (Dec 15, 2018)

Bill the Lesser said:


> That video takes music into the uncanny valley. Google it. I personally found it disturbing. The track by itself is impressive, but the concept of overwriting a real performance is somehow creepy. IMHO.


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## novaburst (Dec 15, 2018)

HelixK said:


> "A paradigm shift for virtual instruments where realism and playability share equal value."
> 
> Sorry I don't share your excitement, this is still too synthy... modeled strings just don't work for me.
> 
> The original performance




Well hearing this and comparing, seems like they are worlds apart, seems like the SM muckup is missing all of its velocity as a result your missing the different tones the bow is making fingered against the fret board, 

Well the library is coming soon but we will need to see if this character can be developed.

the library sounded ok but not sure if the world want just another string library, so i hope SM kick ass with this one


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## chocobitz825 (Dec 15, 2018)

i think the only remedy to the uncanny valley for these libraries is read-ahead function on all the libraries. no doubt this is system heavy, but what the recreation lacks is anticipation of the next attack. Theres a forward motion that creates a sense of energy and anticipation in the original piece. a library generally has individual notes with no direct context and connection to the notes before and after it. If more libraries employed something like what audiobro's choir vst does, perhaps it could better find the right sample to simulate natural motion.


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## givemenoughrope (Dec 15, 2018)

chocobitz825 said:


> i think the only remedy to the uncanny valley for these libraries is read-ahead function on all the libraries. no doubt this is system heavy, but what the recreation lacks is anticipation of the next attack. Theres a forward motion that creates a sense of energy and anticipation in the original piece. a library generally has individual notes with no direct context and connection to the notes before and after it. If more libraries employed something like what audiobro's choir vst does, perhaps it could better find the right sample to simulate natural motion.



Not familiar w the Audiobro choir. How would you organize this? Something like legato transitions of different intervals have been around since VSL legato or maybe before. But that just accounts for two notes really.


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## robgb (Dec 15, 2018)

First off, they will never get any string library to sound exactly like the real thing. So let's quit nitpicking as if they can.

Second, sample modeling, as I understand it, uses recorded samples and works their magic with them, as they've done with their brass. There is some modeling involved, but utilizing recorded strings. If that's the case here, then it makes little sense to complain about modeling.

Third, instead of comparing these to real strings, why don't we compare them to other string libraries. And in that case, these strings sound superb


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## Fa (Dec 16, 2018)

chocobitz825 said:


> i think the only remedy to the uncanny valley for these libraries is read-ahead function on all the libraries. no doubt this is system heavy, but what the recreation lacks is anticipation of the next attack. Theres a forward motion that creates a sense of energy and anticipation in the original piece. a library generally has individual notes with no direct context and connection to the notes before and after it. If more libraries employed something like what audiobro's choir vst does, perhaps it could better find the right sample to simulate natural motion.



Well, a part for predicting the future, that is impossible for real time systems (it is for tools pre-reading a score for instance, like Finale Human playback or Wallander Note Performer), taking into account what was coming before, is already done by almost all the modern virtual instruments and sample players.

Actually Samplemodeling has one of the most accurate and sophisticated scripting for real-time sound shaping combining your input (via MIDI data/controller) with the musical context extrapolated by relation with previous note (staccato, legato, speed, bow change etc.). It's not really about individual notes, or what you listen in the demo should not be possible, even with massive editing.


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## novaburst (Dec 16, 2018)

robgb said:


> Third, instead of comparing these to real strings, why don't we compare them to other string libraries. And in that case, these strings sound superb



I feel they sound ok, i am hoping there will be a bit of magic like there brass and audio modeling, the more velocity pressure you apply to the string you can here the tension change and the string rubbing against the fret board you can find this in audio modeling, i have also heard this in OT B Strings, it gives the impression that someone is playing a violin and not using a keyboard to make the sound of a violin and just going through the notes.

I think S M did amazing with their Brass I think its not so much complaining its more knowing what S M are capable of especially in realism and authenticity, if the one doing the muckup was skill full you found it extremely difficult to tell if a real brass was being used or not.

So the sound was ok but realism is their game


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## DANIELE (Dec 19, 2018)

I didn't know about this. This evening I will listen at the demo.


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## I like music (Dec 27, 2018)

Do we have a rough idea/feel for how the ensemble side of things will work? e.g. how large the ensemble will look to be?

I'm assuming that it'll be a case of SM layering single instruments to 'create' an ensemble, rather than recording an ensemble?


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## I like music (Dec 28, 2018)

Also can't find an indication of release dates. Even rough ones. Anyone heard anything?


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## Ben H (Dec 28, 2018)

Samplemodeling don't do release dates. They only announce stuff when it's ready (or close). It saves people whining and nagging that they have missed deadlines and allows them to get on with the job.

Although people still tend to whine and accuse them of being too quiet and going out of business. *facepalm*

EDIT: Actually it seems they _did _hint at a timeframe to placate their userbase.


> "Much remains to be done, to perfect these instruments. However, we expect to enter the beta phase in about one month."



http://forum.samplemodeling.com/viewtopic.php?t=39609


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## DANIELE (Jun 4, 2019)

I need striiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiings!!

Ok, sorry.


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## I like music (Jun 4, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> I need striiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiings!!
> 
> Ok, sorry.



Anyone know how long sample libraries stay in beta? If we assume that at the latest, SM strings went into beta in Feb some time, how far are we from release? I know that's a bloody hard one to guess, but why not conjecture? It is fun. Any takers?


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## DANIELE (Jun 4, 2019)

I like music said:


> Anyone know how long sample libraries stay in beta? If we assume that at the latest, SM strings went into beta in Feb some time, how far are we from release? I know that's a bloody hard one to guess, but why not conjecture? It is fun. Any takers?



I was just asking myself when their library will be out. They wrote "New demos will be out soon" but today (June) we still haven't heard any other things about it.
I don't want to bother anyone but I'd really like to know something about them since I'm missing playable strings so much in my template.


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## Giorgio Tommasini (Jun 5, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> I was just asking myself when their library will be out. They wrote "New demos will be out soon" but today (June) we still haven't heard any other things about it.
> I don't want to bother anyone but I'd really like to know something about them since I'm missing playable strings so much in my template.



Dear friends,

We are very happy to see the enthusiasm for our upcoming string library.






All the instruments, solo & ensemble, are in a final stage of beta testing and fine-tuning. Please consider that it is a very complex project, encompassing solo violin, viola, cello, double bass, and expressive ensembles based on our proprietary technology.
As we break new ground during the development process, implementing changes in all the instruments turned to be a very challenging and time consuming process. We believe that our results will justify the additional time requested for development. The instruments will be shortly in the hands of Native Instruments for encoding. It wouldn't take too long. Thanks for your patience and encouraging expectations.

Stay tuned.

The Samplemodeling Team.


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## I like music (Jun 5, 2019)

Giorgio Tommasini said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> We are very happy to see the enthusiasm for our upcoming string library.
> 
> ...



Yes!


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## Sam Reed (Jun 20, 2019)

Giorgio Tommasini said:


> Dear friends,
> 
> We are very happy to see the enthusiasm for our upcoming string library.
> 
> ...



Dear Giorgio,

Congratulations on the most recent undertaking! As a longtime user of your Brass instruments, I have come to expect great things from you, Peter and the rest of your team.

When might we expect an announcement with a bit more details? Specifically:

1) a rough price estimate so we know how much to set aside
2) the size(s) of ensembles which will be possible. The only demo so far is of a small ensemble; will this release be best for chamber-sized ensembles or will it encompass "solo to string quartet to 16-14-12-10-8 and everything in between" (here's hoping for the latter!  )
3) will the initial release include similar features as were added to the brass instruments in the 3.0 versions? (e.g., ERs and IRs specifically tuned to the instruments, ensemble IRs, etc.)

Kind regards,
Sam


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## Peter Siedlaczek (Jun 22, 2019)

Dear Sam,

thank you for appreciation and your interest in our products.  Here are some further details:



Sam Reed said:


> will the initial release include similar features as were added to the brass instruments in the 3.0 versions? (e.g., ERs and IRs specifically tuned to the instruments, ensemble IRs, etc.)



Yes. These new Samplemodeling Strings (sample-modeled based) will offer all the features of Samplemodeling Brass, and much more.



Sam Reed said:


> the size(s) of ensembles which will be possible. The only demo so far is of a small ensemble; will this release be best for chamber-sized ensembles or will it encompass "solo to string quartet to 16-14-12-10-8 and everything in between" (here's hoping for the latter!  )



The size(s) of the ensembles must be viewed from a different perspective. This is not a conventional library, so the approach of sampling, for example, 8 vs. 12. vs 16 instruments does not apply here. We started from different concepts and adopted a quite unconventional approach. The user will be able to adjust, in a continuous manner, the perceived ensemble size from "small" to "large".



Sam Reed said:


> a rough price estimate so we know how much to set aside



The product will be on sale only as a complete set (solo & ensemble strings, including first and second violins, violas, cellos, and double basses). The price will be 399 EUR plus an additional time-limited discount of 10 % for all our Samplemodeling customers, as usual.

Peter & Giorgio


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## Nicola74 (Jun 22, 2019)

Can't wait to see this library in action!!
Any prevision about the release date? Just to understand what means "coming soon"


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## maestro2be (Jun 22, 2019)

I can't remember the name of the product but many years ago a company tried to do a modeled string library that you could click on string icons one at a time to increase it's size to make your own. Sounds like this might be a similar approach from the hints. Be interesting to see some walkthrough when it's ready.


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## I like music (Jun 22, 2019)

maestro2be said:


> I can't remember the name of the product but many years ago a company tried to do a modeled string library that you could click on string icons one at a time to increase it's size to make your own. Sounds like this might be a similar approach from the hints. Be interesting to see some walkthrough when it's ready.



Was that DVZ strings?


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## Sam Reed (Jun 22, 2019)

Thank you, Peter, for the excellent information! It all sounds so promising, and based on your track record, I don't foresee any reason not to become an early adopter.



Peter Siedlaczek said:


> The size(s) of the ensembles must be viewed from a different perspective [...] The user will be able to adjust, in a continuous manner, the perceived ensemble size [...]



I don't understand the full ramifications of viewing the size of the ensembles "from a different perspective" (I always think from a real world perspective, having little understanding the details of how libraries are created), but I'm sure you folks will explain this quite well in the manual (which was certainly my experience with Samplemodeling Brass' manuals, even for concepts which were new to me at the time). Looking forward to more information about this when the time comes. 

"Continuous" control of perceived ensemble size sounds like a dream when writing divisi!


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## maestro2be (Jun 22, 2019)

I like music said:


> Was that DVZ strings?


Yup that's the ones I was thinking! Was a cool idea that never fully came to life.


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## filcho89 (Jul 22, 2019)

What I'm hoping for in this instrument is simply a solution for a few more problems. I'm 100% on board with the approach (modeling samples instead of 3d instruments).

On one hand, the demo seems to show that realism is not going to happen with the solo instruments. The demo features the solo violin, which was a bold move, and honestly, it caused me to be discouraged at first. Lots of strange artifacts in the transitions between notes (almost resembles digital distortion), and the different aspects of the sound all seem way off. I don't hear realistic variations in bow speed, bow pressure, bow stick (I'm referring to the start of a stroke), current string, or any aspects of the fingering, note connectedness, etc. In addition to that, imperfection is important wherever realism is the goal, so that would need to be programmed in somehow, especially concerning intonation. The physical modeling approach addressed practically all of these aspects far better so far. I've attached an example of a programmed solo line using physical modeling. The tone of the instrument is a bit off, as are some of the note connections and the sound of the rosin. But in my opinion, it gets us far closer than the Vivaldi demo. 

How will Sample Modeling address these things? I'm eager to see and hear.

The ensembles are a different ball game. They may very well sound better than the solos. It may be possible to create a real-sounding ensemble out of fake sounding members. I bet some types of lines will be possible that have never been possible before. That's exciting to me. I think modeling samples is the way to make seamlessly playable string sections. Physically modeling a string section is still fairly utopian, because it may be 30 years before a $1000 computer can process a 50-100 physical models all at once. This is why Audio Modeling will probably not offer us feasible solutions for string section writing anytime at all soon.


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## alanb (Jul 22, 2019)

Bill the Lesser said:


> That video takes music into the uncanny valley. Google it. I personally found it disturbing. The track by itself is impressive, but the concept of overwriting a real performance is somehow creepy. IMHO.





Hanu_H said:


> I don't find it creepy but I understand that it fools the ear better when you see someone actually playing the instruments.




It's *never* creepy when the 'overwritten' performance is a StSanders Production!!!


_[or even a halfway-decent imitation, like I believe the last one is . . . in any event, it's got yr *emotional 'cello* right there...]








_


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## I like music (Jul 23, 2019)

filcho89 said:


> What I'm hoping for in this instrument is simply a solution for a few more problems. I'm 100% on board with the approach (modeling samples instead of 3d instruments).
> 
> On one hand, the demo seems to show that realism is not going to happen with the solo instruments. The demo features the solo violin, which was a bold move, and honestly, it caused me to be discouraged at first. Lots of strange artifacts in the transitions between notes (almost resembles digital distortion), and the different aspects of the sound all seem way off. I don't hear realistic variations in bow speed, bow pressure, bow stick (I'm referring to the start of a stroke), current string, or any aspects of the fingering, note connectedness, etc. In addition to that, imperfection is important wherever realism is the goal, so that would need to be programmed in somehow, especially concerning intonation. The physical modeling approach addressed practically all of these aspects far better so far. I've attached an example of a programmed solo line using physical modeling. The tone of the instrument is a bit off, as are some of the note connections and the sound of the rosin. But in my opinion, it gets us far closer than the Vivaldi demo.
> 
> ...



Interesting. By the way, did you use SWAM violin there, or something you've developed/are developing?


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## filcho89 (Jul 23, 2019)

I like music said:


> Interesting. By the way, did you use SWAM violin there, or something you've developed/are developing?



It is in fact SWAM. It's not performed though; I edited the values individually, mostly on separate CC lanes:

-Bow speed
-Bow pressure
-Bow position
-Bow change
-Release
-Attack
-Fingering (including choice of position/string)
-Note connectedness
-Vibrato speed
-Vibrato intensity
-Intonation imperfections (usually starting a note slightly out of tune and adjusting, increasing imperfection according to register, playing speed, interval length, and connection type)
-I also added a little EQ to bring out the rosin (but I may have missed the mark a bit)

I'm sure Sample Modeling is tired of being associated to Audio Modeling's products, especially since they're pursuing a different approach so deliberately. In terms of the _future_ of the technology, modeling samples is more interesting to me than virtual objects, but for the time being, the virtual objects provide us with a neat way of studying player behavior and aspects of the sound profile. I'm especially interested in the player behavior part. 

While I'm a little concerned that the new instrument might not have gotten the sound profile quite right, I'm optimistic. It's an instrument that potentially could have a more linear progress over the course of the years following release, unlike sample library-based instruments that are forever married to, and limited by, the initial recordings, as well as the vision with which they were recorded. 

If the SM developers read this, here's my two cents:
Unless every aspect of the sound becomes dynamic, the new approach loses its meaning. Not only that, but each aspect of the sound must be dynamic in a way that reflects real player behavior. I've always been disappointed that both Sample Modeling and Audio Modeling focus on making an instrument "playable". The goal should not be to give the consumer an instrument that is 100% controllable. We, the consumers, are not smart enough to understand the nuances of realistic violin performances. We need SM to automate characteristic of bow pressure, for instance, as well as the minor nuances of intonation, and _much much more!_ If you don't do this, I suspect Note Performer will, in a matter of a few years, become a much more viable way of creating realistic string performances. Artificial intelligence is _absolutely _the path upwards.


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## DANIELE (Jul 23, 2019)

filcho89 said:


> It is in fact SWAM. It's not performed though; I edited the values individually, mostly on separate CC lanes:
> 
> -Bow speed
> -Bow pressure
> ...



Well I would like to have the possibility of having some aspects automated but also the option to have them controllable if I want.


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## Fa (Jul 24, 2019)

filcho89 said:


> What I'm hoping for in this instrument is simply a solution for a few more problems. I'm 100% on board with the approach (modeling samples instead of 3d instruments).
> 
> On one hand, the demo seems to show that realism is not going to happen with the solo instruments. The demo features the solo violin, which was a bold move, ...l. The physical modeling approach addressed practically all of these aspects far better so far. I've attached an example of a programmed solo line using physical modeling. The tone of the instrument is a bit off, as are some of the note connections and the sound of the rosin. But in my opinion, it gets us far closer than the Vivaldi demo.


Dear Filcho, if we talk about research and technology approach, I agree with everything you wrote. I’ve also good news, because actually the new SM product is doing a lot of what you are looking for and descrbing, and something more.

But if we talk about the demo, sorry but I don’t understand your point. Several of the sequence nuances were actually my deliberate choices, and have nothing to do with the instrument itself. I accept your criticism, and I apologize if I didn’t render the sequence in the way you would love it. 

On the other side I think your sentence is a bit too strong and out of the context: I would invite you to tell me if the sequence and the instrument sound were so inferior to other existing tools, and I would love to listen to the same sequence made in a more realistic way and better sounding. None of my Vi in my large and actual collection can do anything similar, but maybe it’s my fault and anybody is invited to show me he can do it better with another library.

About SWAM as you say it’s comparing apple with pears: I love SWAM, I am a great friend of SWAM producers, and I did a lot of work and demos with it, including swam-s, then I am not a detractor at all, but as you say, it has strength and weakness. I don’t think your sequence is a good benchmark, because it’s just random sounds and noise, and not a fair attempt to make musical good sounding example of my Vivaldi simulation. Your example shows the wonderful power of physical modeling in replicating some of the instrument behaviours, and also the discouraging weakness of the sound and programming complexity. And you agree on that, then I join you in the hope of future development, and I think you will be pleased already by several of the features of the new SM strings VI, and future improvements can just be even more exciting.


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## chapbot (Jul 24, 2019)

It looks like several of the sample modeling staff are on these forums - I think your new ensemble strings technology is really incredible and I am super excited to hear more demos! Do you think you could create a few more in different styles to whet our appetites


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## DANIELE (Jul 24, 2019)

chapbot said:


> It looks like several of the sample modeling staff are on these forums - I think your new ensemble strings technology is really incredible and I am super excited to hear more demos! Do you think you could create a few more in different styles to whet our appetites



I think we could listen to more demos once the library is out. I hope we don't have to wait so much to see it released.


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## Fa (Jul 24, 2019)

chapbot said:


> It looks like several of the sample modeling staff are on these forums - I think your new ensemble strings technology is really incredible and I am super excited to hear more demos! Do you think you could create a few more in different styles to whet our appetites


Yes of course. They are ready to be shared, and launch, if no last minutes disasters happen, is imminent.


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## DANIELE (Jul 24, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> I think we could listen to more demos once the library is out. I hope we don't have to wait so much to see it released.





Fa said:


> Yes of course. They are ready to be shared, and launch, if no last minutes disasters happen, is imminent.



So, could we say that your statement and my statement would go together?


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## Fa (Jul 25, 2019)

DANIELE said:


> So, could we say that your statement and my statement would go together?


Yes


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## DANIELE (Jul 25, 2019)

Fa said:


> Yes



OMG, ok!


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## Rilla (Jul 26, 2019)

I'm really looking forward to this!


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## DANIELE (Aug 6, 2019)

SM Strings are out!!!!


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## Mark Schmieder (Aug 7, 2019)

Sounds pretty good from the one short two-minute demo. I hear a few minor anomalies, but overall find the timbre realistic and enjoyable, and the phrasing and articulations mostly organic and realistic.

Hopefully more demos to come. I can't take the chance in buying it right now as I got a shocker today and thus am in the midst of a housing crisis. Every penny counts. But the price seems VERY fair.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 1, 2019)

I finally started working with the solo strings last night (I just purchased the library a few days ago), and am very impressed by the timbre and the general musicality of phrase interpretation, but only fed it existing MIDI so far, with Note On velocities converted to EXP values using Logic Pro, and parts that have short notes would sometimes hiccup or lose the note, so I'll need to study the user manual to see if I need to do any specific CC tweaks or if it's just better to re-enter the parts in real-time vs. using MIDI that was heavily edited over time to get the best results from VSL Solo Strings.

What I especially note is how natural the detache bowing sounds!

The only solo string whose timbre may not be completely to my liking so far, is the cello. But I also need to work with it some more. The viola is the best I've ever heard, and the violin not far behind.

The difference between these solo strings and SWAM is night and day, regarding timbre. Different beasts for sure. I really only care about these sorts of approaches when doing jazz and other idiomatic styles. And though for now I am sticking with VSL for that, due to the time already spent getting deep on their products, I think for new projects I will reach first for these new solo strings, which are warm, realistic sounding, and probably just need a bit of a learning curve to get the best playing to match the needs of its algorithmic engines.

Another thing, is that these might take well to a WX5 wind controller, for the solo strings. I turned the reverb off, and the vibrato intensity to 15% or less, but ideally we'd be modulating vibrato (easier on a mouthpiece than a keyboard, in terms of detail and ergonomic feedback), along with some of the other parameters.

It's a shame that I deleted my aftertouch values (for performance reasons) after I thought I was settled on VSL Solo Strings as my final choice for my jazz and related projects. I can just re-do them though, and it's a good opportunity to try the WX5, which worked well with VL70m "strings".

I'm hoping to have some time with the ensemble strings, today or tomorrow.


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