# YOu can be denied credit or loans -- based on shopping location and Face Book



## Thonex (Sep 4, 2010)

Hi guys,

A good friend of mine told me a story which I find all too easy to believe... especially in this day-and-age of data mining.

He said, banks could possibly deny credit or raise your credit card interest rates based on where you shop... or who your facebook friends are. Ok... here is why...

Say you typically shop at a big food-store chain and regularly go to the mall. And then you start shopping at the 99 Cent store anf go less to the mall.... according to my friend, banks and loan corporations spend good money on buying the purchasing history of their customers so that they can see if there is a risk. Perhaps that person didn't get fired... but they are now only part-time... and now they shop at the 99 Cent store... the banks view this as a potential risk.

Same with Facebook... apparently, based on the shopping history of facebook friends, it's possible for these data-mining companies to draw certain conclusions. To me this is a stretch.

Just curious as to whether anyone else has heard of this or if you have an opinion on this.

Lesson... pay cash when at the 99 Cent store. Added bonus... bring your coin jar :lol: 

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## Mike Greene (Sep 4, 2010)

I'll up Ed's call and call bullshit on _both_ scenarios. Facebook is definitely false. Without social security numbers, how would they even be able to figure out which of the 3,000 Mike Greenes on Facebook is your friend?

I suppose the shopping scenario is more plausible, but I'd still be really surprised if there's any truth to it. Credit card companies already have determiners for income and whether you pay your bills late, which is what they *really* care about, so why would they try and come up with some complicated scheme that doesn't address what they really care about, plus could be completely wrong for a whole bunch of other completely innocent reasons? (Moved to a neighborhood far from the mall, high school son got a summer job at the 99 Cent store, church is having an anti-materialism month, family is saving money for trip to Europe, decided to pay by check rather than credit card at high end stores, etc.)

I think the 99 Cent store is cash only, by the way. :mrgreen:


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## windshore (Sep 4, 2010)

I actually heard a credit/ finance expert on network TV say virtually the same thing about your shopping/ spending habits. Companies apparently have been mining this data and in some cases denying credit/ mortgage applications based on changes in your spending patterns.

He said they may also consider your "friends" though he didn't mention Facebook. (if I remember correctly)

Unfortunately too much of our life is up for sale including your medical history. (and your family's) Think twice about signing up for one of those "member clubs" at the grocery store etc. They literally track every thing and will read assumptions into any changes in you purchasing habits. Ugh!


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## Narval (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, it's all bullshit. No way they would trace your spending habits. Be completely unconcerned about it.


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## chimuelo (Sep 5, 2010)

I beg to differ.
Thonex has brought up a valuable point.
It's not the one site they can gain access to, it's the demographics and an accumulation of information that they use.
Ex-CIA and security people have started their own companies using the same technology gained by hiring the worlds best hackers.
We even teach hacking in our military, so yes you should be concerned.

Example in case.
Paris Hilton and all of the little Starlets hang in Vegas at the private after hours clubs that cost anywhere from 10-50,000 USD per year to be a member.
Most of them have homes here too. Recently Ms. Hilton was out packing her beak and drinking and was arrested for possesion of Cocaine. No biggie ( even her mug shot was spectacular ) as she can afford to buy her way out to a 3 day ReHab center with pals like Lyndsay Lohan.... :lol: 
But the police were able to gather more information on her twitter account that incriminated her further.

Now if the slow undermanned local Police use such lowly tricks, what do you think that proffessionally trained security officials can do.?


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## Thonex (Sep 6, 2010)

Narval @ Sat Sep 04 said:


> Yeah, it's all [email protected]#t. No way they would trace your spending habits. Be completely unconcerned about it.



Do I detect a tone of sarcasm there.... :mrgreen: 

Tracing spending habits is easy. Gauging your interests are easy too by all the cookie trails left by anyone who surfs the net.

The question is... what are banks doing with this info... if anything?

I too have a hard time believing the Facebook story.... but often time the truth is stranger than fiction.

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## Narval (Sep 6, 2010)

Thonex @ Mon Sep 06 said:


> but often time the truth is stranger than fiction


Right. 
And often times fiction that seems unusually strange, 
it's likely to be the truth 
in disguise. 

Back on topic, let's not forget that 
the bankers' loath for losing money 
is so all-encompassing 
and deeply embedded in their psyche 
that they will use all and any of the available means 
to prevent that. 
And preventing it is not even very hard for them, 
for they have everything they need for doing it: 
the money, 
the time, 
the mindframe, 
the means, 
and the motivation. 

Make no mistake about it:
if you let them own you, they surely and gladly will.


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## windshore (Sep 6, 2010)

truth is that a quick look at most people's credit card statements over several months can detail much of your activities in general - and the state of your life. 

The banks have made it very difficult to just cash checks. They charge you extra fees to cash a check even at the bank it's drawn on!!! -and just try paying for a hotel or rental car in cash! CC companies have nearly got their wish to be like the government... they both get a slice of virtually every transaction made in the country.


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## José Herring (Sep 6, 2010)

About a year ago I had a conversation with a VP of a major bank that heads up the credit card division of the major bank (Chase). I was amazed at what a racket credit cards are.

Not only do I believe Thonex's friend is right, but it goes far deeper than that. The whole credit card game is based on making the credit consumer a lifetime paying member. They aren't interested in rich people. Rich people pay off their credit debts monthly and aren't big money makers for them. They are interested in the working class and there's a considerable amount of effort to determine exactly what a person's spending habits and income are.

The whole game is to get some poor sucker to put as much of his life on credit as possible. Of course, someone spending at a 99 cent store then becomes a "credit risk", but also a frugal minded person isn't going to be purchasing a lot on credit, but, your mall going person is interested in status. He/she is willing to spend more than they have on getting the latest greatest piece of crap (clothes, jewelery, ect..) Provided that he has a decent credit history the credit card issuer will determine his monthly spending habits and then run up his credit limit to the point where he can only afford the minimum. Thus, the credit company reaps maximum profit.

In short, they'll use anything to determine who's their next potential lifetime sucker.

I've been working the last 7 years to get myself out of the credit game. But if you want to play the most important things to consider are never to max out a card, never pay off your balance in full, always float a small amount from month to month and never, ever, ever pay just the minimum on a card.

I feel that they'll only look at where you shop and your friends if you fall into one of those high risk categories, ie, maxed out cards, paying the minimum.

But the weirdest thing is you can be denied credit for being too good. I had a friend who always pays off his balance in full. He called his credit card company to raise his credit limit. He was denied. He asked why and they point blankly told him that since he pays off his credit card in full every month that they've never made a dime off of him in the 3 years that he's had the card and there would be no point in raising his limit. :shock: That incident speaks volumes.

I know that in America today it's hard to believe that credit isn't money and doesn't follow the same rules. In the credit game you don't get rewarded for working hard and being good. You get rewarded for what I consider deviant behavior. For spending money you haven't earned hoping that you'll be able to make future payments.

edit: I should add that I have a bias against credit. I don't think that an individual needs credit. I'm so extreme that I don't even think that an individual even needs a mortgage. But, as I get older I'm starting to soften on a the mortgage stance.


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## José Herring (Sep 6, 2010)

gsilbers @ Mon Sep 06 said:


> Narval @ Mon Sep 06 said:
> 
> 
> > josejherring @ Mon Sep 06 said:
> ...



While I agree with you, in a business were there are no guarantees it's best to own your stuff outright.


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## Hannes_F (Sep 6, 2010)

gsilbers @ Mon Sep 06 said:


> one example of a good reason would be to buy a good string library for a filmscore you just got, then you pay off the string library and you get profit, then you can use that string library for another project and with the profit get a better brass library and so on. now think of it in other biz's.



Pay your equipment (including libraries) with money you already earned (with smaller projects or other work). If _at all_ possible.

Don't buy a new strings library until you can afford it _because you earned the money by using your old strings library_.

Same for computers, instruments, microphones etc. etc. That would be my advice any time. All equipment must earn the money of the next generation of equipment, and in order to run our business healthy we need to keep an eye on that. Exceptions might apply, but rarely.


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## gsilbers (Sep 6, 2010)

Dude that was just an example. How can anyone start almost any business or a home without a loan?! 
Sorry for the bad example but the concept is dead simple. 
I do agree to use profits for expansion though before going to debt in specific cases.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 7, 2010)

Hannes_F @ Mon Sep 06 said:


> gsilbers @ Mon Sep 06 said:
> 
> 
> > one example of a good reason would be to buy a good string library for a filmscore you just got, then you pay off the string library and you get profit, then you can use that string library for another project and with the profit get a better brass library and so on. now think of it in other biz's.
> ...



Heresy, stuff and nonsense. I need my fix, mister dealer. ( they even call the ultimate amount you pay the 'street price'.

I don't really need clothes. Or expensive food. However, good strings are a NECESSITY, godamnit.


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## wst3 (Sep 7, 2010)

not going to get into a debate about good debt vs bad debt, too many variables!

But I will tell you, from first hand experience, that EVERYONE is watching your spending habits... merchants, manufacturers, and money handlers... and they've been doing it for at least 20 years that I am aware, they just have better tools now.

The good news is that there are some fences in place to protect some details, for example, a bank can not sell your financial information to a merchant. The bad news is that there are no obstacles to a bank buying such information from a merchant.

Everyone wants to know everything about you. For the most part it is, today, pretty safe, information is aggregated anonymously for the most part.

But the opportunity for abuse and excess certainly exists, and anyone that thinks greed has not become a habit for far too many leaders of industry (and government) has not been paying attention.

We all need to pay attention to the information we give out. I am not suggesting tin foil hats, but just reasonable care.

And we should also be diligent about what we let our government and industries do... but that's been true, at least in the US, for over 200 years<G>!


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