# Make Music Posts $1.7 Million Loss



## Peter Alexander (Aug 19, 2012)

http://soniccontrol.tv/2012/08/19/make-music-posts-1-7-million-loss-for-first-6-months-of-2012/ (http://soniccontrol.tv/2012/08/19/make- ... s-of-2012/)


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## dcoscina (Aug 19, 2012)

So much for switching to Finale given this new news. Dark times for notation software in general...


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## windshore (Aug 19, 2012)

Interestingly I found that the head of Avid's yearly compensation is estimated to be almost 4 Million. 

I think a lot of companies need to be restructured so that there's less emphasis paying execs, and more emphasis on creating amazing products.


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## José Herring (Aug 19, 2012)

windshore @ Sun Aug 19 said:


> Interestingly I found that the head of Avid's yearly compensation is estimated to be almost 4 Million.
> 
> I think a lot of companies need to be restructured so that there's less emphasis paying execs, and more emphasis on creating amazing products.



You damn right!

I don't get these people. How can anybody in good conscience accept 4mil while the company they run is 1.7 mill in the whole?


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## Peter Alexander (Aug 19, 2012)

point taken but you're mixing companies. Avid owns Sibelius while Make Music owns Finale.


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## RiffWraith (Aug 19, 2012)

josejherring @ Mon Aug 20 said:


> windshore @ Sun Aug 19 said:
> 
> 
> > Interestingly I found that the head of Avid's yearly compensation is estimated to be almost 4 Million.
> ...



+1



josejherring @ Mon Aug 20 said:


> How can anybody in good conscience accept 4mil while the company they run is 1.7 mill in the whole?



*greed * _noun_ \ˈgrēd\


excessive or rapacious desire, especially for wealth or possessions. 

extreme desire for something, often more than one's proper share.


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## rgames (Aug 19, 2012)

Peter - one thing that you might want to do on your website is provide some insight and analysis rather than just quoting the filing.

The news is not all bad - in fact, it's not necessarily bad at all. Revenues grew 13%, so they're selling more product. The loss is a result of an increase in expenses.

Based on the filing, it looks like they're gearing up to improve their product line and expand their sales/marketing efforts. That's why the had a loss: they're investing in their products.

When a company takes a loss to invest in its products, that's a sign that the company is committed to the future of those products. Contrast that against Avid, who just sacked most of the Sibelius staff and have no clear direction for the product. Finale is doing the opposite - they're expanding and focusing on product development.

rgames

PS - execs get paid because "it could have been worse." Same argument you see when a politician presides over a dismal term - "You should still re-elect me even though everything really sucks right now - it could have been worse." It's a tough argument to accept but even tougher to disprove. Often it is the truth.


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## windshore (Aug 19, 2012)

I have intentionally intermingled the fate of both companies.

Richard is correct in pointing out that these are 2 different situations. 

I do believe though that if you talk to customers of either company's products, they would agree that Management has been out of touch with their needs. So then, what is the best strategy to pursue going forward? Listen to customers? - or hire new management because they have "star power" on Wall Street? 

I know it's never cut and dry, but the fact that upper management at Avid, at least, has no background in entertainment means that the later strategy is what rules the day... for now.


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## Peter Alexander (Aug 19, 2012)

rgames @ Sun Aug 19 said:


> Peter - one thing that you might want to do on your website is provide some insight and analysis rather than just quoting the filing.
> 
> The news is not all bad - in fact, it's not necessarily bad at all. Revenues grew 13%, so they're selling more product. The loss is a result of an increase in expenses.
> 
> ...



http://soniccontrol.tv/2012/07/17/makemusic-confirms-receipt-of-proposal-from-launchequity-partners-llc/ (http://soniccontrol.tv/2012/07/17/makem ... tners-llc/)

I appreciate your comments. At this point, our first focus is on getting the Bucks section set up for the SCTV Music Tech stocks in a manner similar to both Google and Yahoo finance pages. 

Daily opinion and insight is found in a feed on the home page based on stocks part of the SCTV Music Tech block.


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## jamwerks (Aug 20, 2012)

Amazing for me to read these figures. With only two main players in the notation game, you'd think they'd both be making good money. :shock:


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## Gusfmm (Aug 20, 2012)

rgames @ Sun Aug 19 said:


> The news is not all bad - in fact, it's not necessarily bad at all. Revenues grew 13%, so they're selling more product. The loss is a result of an increase in expenses.
> 
> Based on the filing, it looks like they're gearing up to improve their product line and expand their sales/marketing efforts. That's why the had a loss: they're investing in their products.
> 
> rgames



+1

Garritan acquisition, one-off legal expenses, hiring/severance expenses, etc. When you put the actual facts behind the numbers in context and consider the recent acquisition offer and the strategic plans associated to such offer, all in perspective, I feel there seems to be a clear serious push to take the company forward. As with most technology companies, vision and innovation are key for their future success, so hopefully the acquisition materializes and the new owners maintain their promises and bring in the right talent to renovate the software.



dcoscina @ Sun Aug 19 said:


> Dark times for notation software in general...



Turnoil, David, is always worrysome. Frequently, there can't be progress without some form of revolution.


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## noldar12 (Aug 23, 2012)

One of the most "successful" ways to run a company into the ground is to focus strictly on short term profits.

Wall Street tends to punish those companies that take a long-term view by actually investing towards future growth, while accepting short-term losses.

If Finale posts similar losses for the next couple of years, then there would be real cause for concern.

It appears that at least Make Music has some sort of plan, while Avid is in "panic mode".

As to the "notation" market, there could be some reasons for concern, as much of what is "popular" simply doesn't require the degree of notation Finale/Sibelius offers.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 23, 2012)

Taking a step back, the issue is that the hardware and software business models that began with the digital revolution in the '80s are changing.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 23, 2012)

And that's without discussing the problems with private equity financing. It's not all bad, but when a company can use OPM to take a company private, load it with debt, skim off a massive "consulting" fee, then run it into the ground (preferably taking it public again and making more money)....something ain't right.


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## Peter Alexander (Aug 23, 2012)

You're omitting piracy.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 23, 2012)

Good point, and there's no question that piracy is a factor.

But it's also true that the world is changing. For a good 25 years we were conditioned to buy a piece of hardware, use it for a couple of years, then buy the next one when a far better model came out - as it always did. At first that applied to everything - keyboards, drum machines, fx processors, and of course computers.

Then a lot of that moved into the computer, but until a few years ago we needed a new computer every couple or three years to run the latest software. That's no longer the case.

And of course we'd expect a new version of the software with new features all the time. That's a big part of how companies like Make Music stayed in business - selling upgrades.

It looks to me like that's slowing way down. We may be approaching the point at which sequencers and notation programs have gone about as far as they can! It's not like we've reached the end of progress, but I just get the feeling that the tail-chasing routine isn't going on forever.

There's always room for better instruments, but what are you going to put into Logic or Cubase that everyone has to have? Pro Tools needs to be 64-bit and have a real-time bounce feature, but it's feeling pretty "finished" to me!

It's certainly not like the '80s when the new keyboard was multitimbral and the old one could only play one sound at a time!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 23, 2012)

Or to put it another way, how many more computers and sequencer or notation program upgrades are people going to buy?

Also, how much more planned obsolescence will we tolerate? I've posted many times that I gave up buying expensive computer cards, because I've lost too much money on them.

I guess SSDs are the new thing. Storage will probably always be a short-term investment. 

Anyway, I think a lot of companies in our industry are feeling all the things I just mentioned. There are "green spots," but things are changing.


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## Daryl (Aug 24, 2012)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Aug 24 said:


> And of course we'd expect a new version of the software with new features all the time. That's a big part of how companies like Make Music stayed in business - selling upgrades.
> 
> It looks to me like that's slowing way down. We may be approaching the point at which sequencers and notation programs have gone about as far as they can! It's not like we've reached the end of progress, but I just get the feeling that the tail-chasing routine isn't going on forever.
> 
> There's always room for better instruments, but what are you going to put into Logic or Cubase that everyone has to have? Pro Tools needs to be 64-bit and have a real-time bounce feature, but it's feeling pretty "finished" to me!


I agree, up to a point. The most important part of your view as far as I can see is that we are talking about features *that everyone has to have*. The profession is being more and more populated by people who are basically musically illiterate. Music notation in the school curriculum is less important now than at any time I can remember. Therefore the importance of advanced features a notation software program is much lower, when compared with the number of potential users.

This also feeds into sequencer features and sample libraries as well. There is a huge number of potential users out there, but the number of them who have any performance skills is comparatively small, so features that would appeal to those users who actually have some training to do the job are less important to the rest of the users. We even see this on this forum when new products come out. Users jump on them and expound how marvellous they sound, and then it turns out that the product can't even execute a legato phrase successfully. :shock: 

In this sort of climate of amateurism and dumbing down, there is very little profit to be made from providing a truly professional product, unless the cost is sufficiently high to allow for the smaller market. For those people working in media, with the shrinking budgets, this makes a professional product even less likely to break even in the market place.

D


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## jamwerks (Aug 24, 2012)

Finale version 2012, that came out summer 2011, was only a very slight "upgrade", with the major change being the way Finale handled fonts.

The upgrade was so slight that many (like myself) didn't upgrade. So a $1.7M loss is really quite small considering the funds that MM usually has coming in each year.

Unfortunately nothing new this summer either. We'll have to wait for 2013 for a new version. I imagine that the 64 bit rewrite is quite an endevor !


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## JPQ (Sep 2, 2012)

I dream DAW with good notation (for example Logic dont support harp pedal symbols) to me notation programs what are suitable my kind projects (=i means other than basic pop/jazz/rock some have limits which makes notation Symphonic/Cinematic/Massive projects impsossible notate at least thing only 8 staves...) are very pricey. Luckily currently i dont dream much idea real musicans play music.


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## mverta (Sep 18, 2012)

Dammit! If only there some other way to notate music! 




_Mike


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## Reegs (Sep 18, 2012)

mverta @ Tue Sep 18 said:


> Dammit! If only there some other way to notate music!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Surely you can't mean something involving pen and paper! :lol: 

As for the "little guys"

Overture seems to be chugging along, with a more-than-rumored update on the horizon...

Encore development was pretty much flat last time I looked at the gvox site.

Noteworthy Composer has a small but strong following.


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## HDJK (Sep 19, 2012)

^^ How about Notion 3? Has anybody here used it?

http://www.notionmusic.com/products/notion3.html


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## synapse21 (Sep 19, 2012)

In 2011, I bought Finale 2011, and although it is extremely comprehensive with what it can do, it is also extremely clunky andunintuitive to use.

The learning curve is steep and I find myself looking up shortcut key commands all the time, or trying to figure out where things are in all of the menus. Plus - I hate it when software looks and feels completely different between PC and Mac.

I picked up Sibelius 7 as a crossgrade, but have barely had time to get into it, and then we get the news of them being dropped by Avid.

The first sequencer that truly integrates an excellent notation capability will be excellent - and I hope that ultimately comes from Steinberg.  This, to me, is really where the gaping hole is.

Notion 3 looks interesting - thanks for the link!

- Rodney


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## stonzthro (Sep 19, 2012)

Yeah, then Finale has a habit of changing where shortcuts go every upgrade or so - truly a terribly produced product that can do great things. I've used it since 1990.


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## rgames (Sep 19, 2012)

synapse21 @ Wed Sep 19 said:


> The first sequencer that truly integrates an excellent notation capability will be excellent


Well, yes, but I am bothered by the notation folks trying to turn it into a sequencer - the sequencing features are terrible and I would have rather seem them spend the effort improving the notation capabilities.

Likewise, when Steinberg spends time on their lousy notation features, I get pissed because there are a huge list of sequencing bugs remain ignored. So you get a buggy sequencer with crappy notation features.

So, yes, I agree with the sentiment. But I'd rather see MakeMusic first improve their notation capabilities and Steinberg improve their sequencing capabilities. Then worry about adding the features of the other.

rgames


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## HDJK (Sep 20, 2012)

rgames @ Thu Sep 20 said:


> synapse21 @ Wed Sep 19 said:
> 
> 
> > The first sequencer that truly integrates an excellent notation capability will be excellent
> ...



QFT  

One reason I never bothered to get NEK for Nuendo. The notation part would be the only thing I need, but it looks terrible IMHO.

I settled for Finale (still lots to learn...)


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