# Superman Returns first listen



## choc0thrax (May 31, 2006)

http://www.soundtrack.net/features/article/?id=196

lalalalalsksddjds


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## Alex W (May 31, 2006)

Spoiler



John Ottman's gay.


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## choc0thrax (May 31, 2006)

Yes and so is his music. X3>Superman Returns.


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## kid-surf (Jun 1, 2006)

Didn't that film cost , like, $600,000,000? :shock: 


Well, i hope my wife's film kicks it's ass at the box office..... counter programing. :mrgreen:


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## midphase (Jun 2, 2006)

which film is that?


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## kid-surf (Jun 2, 2006)

The Devil Wears Prada.....


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## Waywyn (Jun 2, 2006)

I have one question which is not ment to be sarcastic, ironic or whatever in a negative way.

But, what does it makes for you that a score sounds crap to you. I mean there are millions of people who just say, this is crap, that sucks, this is damn stupid fuck etc., but what is it exactly that make you doesn't like it?

If someone of us would do such scoring on a VSL or whatever demo it would be excellent, cool, great work etc. (only compositional, not making a sample lib sound like a real orchestra etc.)

I personally see no difference between all those composers, if they are hollywoods greatest filmcomposers or just composers for games or other media.

Of course there are a lot of crappy composers out there who just write a chordal structure and put some lame melody over it.

I also personally think that the maintheme of Morrowind is absolutely comparable to the armageddon maintheme in terms of quality, a recognizition and listening factor.

We all know Troels, ThomasJ and Maarten and i think if they would do movies like Zimmer do, it would also be a good quality movie-score.

So just as already asked, what makes it, that something sounds crap to you, besides having the facts that some people just can't stand certain composers


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## choc0thrax (Jun 2, 2006)

Waywyn @ Fri Jun 02 said:


> I have one question which is not ment to be sarcastic, ironic or whatever in a negative way.
> 
> But, what does it makes for you that a score sounds crap to you. I mean there are millions of people who just say, this is crap, that sucks, this is damn stupid fuck etc., but what is it exactly that make you doesn't like it?
> 
> ...



You want me to analyze exactly why I don't like certain scores? Well sorry I don't feel like it.  Can't I just say I don't like them? Or no wait i'm probably lying and I really do like those scores and say i don't just to bother Waywyn because he is personally effected by every negative thing I write.


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## Waywyn (Jun 2, 2006)

> ... by every negative thing I write



don't know whats wrong with my question. it's a discussion forum and all we do is discuss here.

if you say, you don't care to explain, fine for me really 

but if you also think i am personally affected by every negative thing you write, *lol* sure, go ahead, won't keep you up from what you like to think 

okay, but you are right, i have nothing better to do, than scanning the forum each day for chocos posts and write stupid comments


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## kid-surf (Jun 2, 2006)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Jun 02 said:


> Hey Kid,
> 
> What do you think of the trailer for Devil Wears... ? I don't know if it's the same one that is showing in the US, but here, it's very different from trad. trailers. So much so, in fact, that I found it distracting. What I mean is that, instead of paying attention to the play of the actors, the story, etc, I spent most of the time thinking that I was in the wrong theatre. I'm all for trying new things in trailers (like a female voice once in while, or no big perc hits, for eg), but I'm not sure that this kind of approach (feels like you've just walked into the middle of the film) can work. I will try to check out the movie though - congrats!




Hey Ned---


I haven't seen the trailer yet. :D Interesting you describe it that way. Now I have to see it. I'll have to go check it out in a bit and let you know what I think. 

This may be a good one to take your girlfriend/wife too.. :D

Thanks, I'll pass the congrats on to my wife.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 2, 2006)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Jun 02 said:


> choc0thrax @ 2/6/2006 said:
> 
> 
> > Or no wait i'm probably lying and I really do like those scores and say i don't just to bother Waywyn because he is personally effected by every negative thing I write.
> ...



Yes! Just being myself, my momma always told me to be myself!!!11


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## Waywyn (Jun 2, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Fri Jun 02 said:


> Waywyn I think it is all of our sexual tension that is showing up here. Drop by IRC sometime so we can erectify...errr I mean rectify the problem.



hehe, yeh i will .... rrrRRR ...
confess!! it is all because of my new avatar picture


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## Niah (Jun 2, 2006)

Waywyn @ Fri Jun 02 said:


> choc0thrax @ Fri Jun 02 said:
> 
> 
> > Waywyn I think it is all of our sexual tension that is showing up here. Drop by IRC sometime so we can erectify...errr I mean rectify the problem.
> ...



Could be ! But I'll put my bet on that sexy superman outfit, I think you guys are just fighting for attention for that hunk that is clark kent aka superman.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 2, 2006)

I like Ottman's score for The Usual Suspects.


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## Evan Gamble (Jun 2, 2006)

I thought the theme to Fantastic 4 was really cool(the descending trumpet line)-but I guess that's just me :roll:

But I do wish either Don Davis or Joel McNeely got to score Superman-though the film looks like pure Bullshit anyways so who cares.


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## Niah (Jun 3, 2006)

Yea Fantastic 4 wasn't great great but it was rather nice, probably the best I've heard from ottman.


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## Scott Cairns (Jun 3, 2006)

There's another link in regard to the Superman score (lots of pics);

http://www.soundtrack.net/features/article/?id=192


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## kid-surf (Jun 4, 2006)

http://www.devilwearspradamovie.com/


Ned --- I think the film looks great! Maybe I'm biased, but I doubt it. :D

Can't believe they hired that "other guy "to score this...... ???? :mrgreen:


BTW --- is that the same trailer you saw?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 4, 2006)

Yeah, it's the same trailer. It doesn't have the same effect in this context (webpage) however, as it's very, very clear that one is watching a trailer. In the theatre, however, I swear that it feels as though a movie is starting, but not the one you paid for. Anyhow, I feel kinda stupid being negative about it because after all, they're trying something fresh. I hope it does GREAT, and I will check it out (with my wife :wink: ).


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## Mike Greene (Jun 4, 2006)

That trailer really works for me. Definitely a different method (I can see Ned's point,) but it makes me want to see the movie. And I love the music cue they used.

Kid, I think you should start a separate thread about the film. I think how films get made, the politics involved and all that stuff is really interesting. And this being a Fox film, it's at a level I'm certainly unfamiliar with.

- Mike Greene


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## Christian Marcussen (Jun 20, 2006)

The entire score online:

http://www.superherohype.com/news/super ... hp?id=4412


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## TheoKrueger (Jun 20, 2006)

Thanks a lot Christian, that's really cool.


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## PaulR (Jun 20, 2006)

I quite liked Bank Job. In the notes the it says it's a little derivative of Goldsmiths Planet of the Apes - but I was reminded more of the opening from A Touch of Evil.

It's all derivative - but if it works in the film -then great. If the film turns out to be shyte - then forget about it.


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## Stephen Rees (Jun 20, 2006)

midphase @ Tue Jun 20 said:


> I think most movie scores nowadays have really gone down the drain compared to the work that was being done about 20 years ago and beyond.
> 
> I think this is a direct result of shorter and shorter deadlines, and corporate executives getting more and more involved with the creative process and wanting to play it more and more safe by not straying too far from everyone else.
> 
> ...



I agree with you totally. Another factor could be the increase in the film score CD market. When I was a kid, I used to collect film scores with a passion. Not all films had album releases (in fact a lot of high profile films didn't bother back then) because I guess the film companies didn't really view the market as being that important.

Now every film has an album release..........but they all sound the same. I guess there is a pressure on the score to be marketable as an album release these days.

Imagine 'Planet of the Apes' by Jerry Goldsmith in a film today. That will never happen again. Or the serial jazz music of 'The Taking of Pelham 123' by David Shire (one of the most effective 'urban thriller' scores I have ever heard - great film too).


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## Thonex (Jun 20, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Fri Jun 02 said:


> I've noticed this about forum composers also. Some are very good at making complicated impressive stuff but I feel nothing while listening to it. So far the only time it's happened really was when I listened to something by Jeff Cardoni over on NS.



I don't follow you.. are you saying you liked or didn't like Cardoni's music on NS?

T


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## choc0thrax (Jun 20, 2006)

I'm saying that pretty much the only time I really felt some emotions listening to a forum members music was when listening to a piece by Jeff... Yes I do like his music.


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## Thonex (Jun 20, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Tue Jun 20 said:


> I'm saying that pretty much the only time I really felt some emotions listening to a forum members music was when listening to a piece by Jeff... Yes I do like his music.



me too.


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## Brian Ralston (Jun 20, 2006)

Stephen Rees @ Tue Jun 20 said:


> I agree with you totally. Another factor could be the increase in the film score CD market. When I was a kid, I used to collect film scores with a passion. Not all films had album releases (in fact a lot of high profile films didn't bother back then) because I guess the film companies didn't really view the market as being that important.



The market for film scores is still very small though. Usually only a few thousand CDs get sold for any one particular score...even if it is a large film believe it or not. I was just at an SCL seminar that discussed the new union rules and rates, etc...There was discussion about CD soundtracks. The new union rule is that any budget film that uses union musicians can get their first 15,000 CDs released for free...without ANY re-use fee. Again, this is not just low budget rate specific, this is any film on any budget. It did not use to be this way. Before...films would have to pay high re-use fees for union recorded scores which amounted to repaying the musicians a second time for releaseing their score recordings on an audio CD. For a film that does not do well...that expense (usually in the tens of thousands of dollars...would just not make economic sense. 

The recent change in the union policy came about when EMI approached the secondary markets fun of the union about re-releasing the E.T. score. They wanted a break on the re-use fees. The union said, "Are you crazy...it is E.T., there is not break for E.T." They said they had only sold 25,000 copies of the E.T. score on that last release. The union did not believe it...but EMI opened their books under non-disclosure and proved it. (Of course, now the union official said the non-discluosure has passed and he could talk about it). The union officials were in such disbelief of the low numbers of E.T. score CDs sold that they decided they had to re-think their re-use policy and they began to change it to what it is today. Now, it is almost inexcusable for a film with union musicians to not have a soundtrack release of some sort because it is free (meaning no residual payments) for the first 15,000 units which is above what most score soundtracks sell anyway. The only cost involved to the record company is the artwork and CD pressing expenses which is minimal comparitively speaking.

Which goes back to the point that CD soundtrack score releases are such a small corner of the market that they are almost always sold at a loss. Usually only a few thousand are made in any one pressing. Varese does the largest presssings at about 10,000 for each sdtk CD pressing. 

But the soundtracks with songs or popular artists on them...that is a whle other story. Those can get sold in the thousands and hundreds of thousand units.


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## Daryl (Jun 20, 2006)

Of course by releasing a soundtrack CD the "Publishers" can argue that they have fulfilled their duty to exploit the music over and above its use on the film and thereby justify stealing 50% of the composer's royalty...!

D


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## PaulR (Jun 20, 2006)

Stephen Rees @ Tue Jun 20 said:


> midphase @ Tue Jun 20 said:
> 
> 
> > I think most movie scores nowadays have really gone down the drain compared to the work that was being done about 20 years ago and beyond.
> ...



It's not so much the film scores - it's more to do with the films. The film goer associates the thing as a whole - not separately. Film scores work every now and again whether they're derivative or not because it's all about making the scene work and the non muso audience don't think in a separated manner - it's all or nothing or maybe or just about.

Planet of the Apes - The Taking of Pelham 123 - Touch of Evil and so on and so on. Most people will definitely not remember much about the scores - but they remember the films, that's the issue - not separation of this or that. For instance, The Taking of Pelham 123 if you like works brilliantly as a film because it's got a genius in Walter Mattheu and very funny moments, juxtaposed against a psychotic Robert Shaw. People don't remember Planet of the Apes because of the score - they remember it for apes and the Statue of Liberty - Touch of Evil for great acting and a brilliant director etc.

There are many great movies mostly made years ago - like Some Like it Hot or Ace in the Hole for instance - bet no one remembers too much about the scores.

The only time non musos remember scores are when it rips into their psyche based on emotions caused collectively by visual stimuli reinforced by the score.

Psycho for example - everyone in the world knows that one. And a lot Speilberg's earlier films scored by John Williams.

It's the films that got crap and the unforgivable reliance on cgi and remake after remake, which is designed to dull the imagination and appeal to audiences on a bottom up basis regarding intelligence. Most of the time it HAS to be in your face - or they won't understand it.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 21, 2006)

http://superherohype.com/news/supermannews.php?id=4412

Superman Returns full score.


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## Christian Marcussen (Jun 22, 2006)

Christian Marcussen @ Tue Jun 20 said:


> The entire score online:
> 
> http://www.superherohype.com/news/super ... hp?id=4412


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## kid-surf (Jun 22, 2006)

> BY MIDPHASE ---- I think most movie scores nowadays have really gone down the drain compared to the work that was being done about 20 years ago and beyond.



I think it depends on where your head is at. I personally like many of the nu-skool scores (probably because I like those types of films better -- I don't like much of that 80's Epic stuff). I wasn't a kid that wanted to score films at 9 years old (or 3, or 2, or before I was ever born, or whatever the typical age is  ). I wanted to be a rock star for most of my life, so I'm a late comer compared to most.

Anyway........ The nu-breed composers are writing stuff I like to hear. And it fits the films they do. 20-30 years ago there weren't many indie films. I'm glad there is a new market that makes itself available to composers that aren't anywhere close to what a JW is. Most composers I know can't touch those guys anyway.... not yet..... maybe 20 years from now. But film has evolved and so has the type of music that "fits" these films. Fight Club would have been stupid if JW or GoldSmith scored it, Momento, Crash, Lost In Translation... Same thing. (I could name 100 films that were great with small scores, mostly not orchestral Epics, but you get the point). I don't believe those Icon type composers can score those sorts of films and give them the correct cerebral edginess, grit, dirtiness, darkness, etc. There are plenty of films that are that way... where the top guys are plainly the wrong guys for those gigs. It wouldn't be a legit film... 

It'd be like John Tesch sitting in on Slipknot... it'd be forced and not feel legit for the artistic medium.

I think it's great if people aspire to be iconic composers, more power to them. But IMO, the film is the more important factor than the soundtrack. I'd say if you (whoever) believe your music to be the more important factor you probably shouldn't set out to be a film composer, as you'll probably feel let down a lot. The general public doesn't even know the music is there. They either like the film or they don't.

People loved Beverly Hills Cop and Footloose (etc. etc.). Maybe they'd have liked those films better if JW composed for them.......... 


Choc0 ---- you got a link to that cue you're talking about. I remember him (Jeff) clowning on one of my cues way back, so I'd like to hear why he's "the man".


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## choc0thrax (Jun 22, 2006)

http://www.jeffcardoni.com/ The cue I liked a lot is called Red Fern.


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## kid-surf (Jun 22, 2006)

Reminds me of the soundtrack to "Millions" a little. Do you have that? You may like it...

I'll take my music instead, though... :mrgreen: nothing against him.  (but that's probably true of most people --- and I wouldn't make that distinction but for the fact that he clown'd on my music.  Yet if I loved his music I'd admit it.)

One of my favorite pieces by a peer is something I forget who composed it.... we all have different tastes, which is fine.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 22, 2006)

Jeff did additional music on Millions. I won't listen to the score because I might as well just listen to what it's trying to copy-the greatest score on earth- Edward Scissorhands.


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## kid-surf (Jun 22, 2006)

Oh... I guess I have a good ear then. :mrgreen:

ESH -- never heard it away from the film.... is it a released soundtrack? Never thought to get that as I don't really vibe with that sort of score.

Many of the scores/soundtracks I want to listen to aren't released.... kind'a sucks. But maybe what Brian said will change some of that. Hopefully.......

I know the market is super small, but I want to hear some of the more obscure soundtracks away from the film.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 22, 2006)

Of course Scissorhands was released.  Taken from Filmtracks- "Even ten years after its initial release on CD, Elfman's album continues its juggernaut status at the high end of the sales charts." So it was still selling well in 2000. I doubt you'd like it though since it has a lot of beautiful choir and I know you don't like choirs. My homepage everytime I open Firefox defaults to- http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/edward_s.html


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## kid-surf (Jun 22, 2006)

Good memory... :razz: 

I should probably take that "choir" remark back... I actually thought Powell used it perfect in Xmen. It sounds killer in that. And you know, there's older scores I like choir in too. I think what it is, is that I can't stand the 'demos' that sound like Dungeons & Dragons™ and that sort of sorcery goblin sound..... sounds nerdy to me, and not the least bit "powerful". (to each his own, I suppose). I like them used more romantically like Powell used them on the main theme. (I know romantically probably isn't the right word, but that's how it strikes me.)

So, I guess I like choir when it's used in the appropriate places... just as I like Epic cues when they are done well.  

Otherwise it ends up sounding like a parody to me. I just like things to sound "legit", no matter the genre.

I'll snag that soundtack.........


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## choc0thrax (Jun 22, 2006)

Scissorhands isn't some Epic screaming choirs thing like you hear in a lot of films or on Soundsonline.  It's boys choir which work perfectly for Edward. It's not some choir that's just tacked on, it has pretty much the main role musically.


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## kid-surf (Jun 22, 2006)

I hear you.... I'll probably dig it then.  

It's been a while since I've seen the film, but I did like the film and the vibe of it.


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