# Orchestral Scores



## Audun Jemtland (May 20, 2011)

Hey do you have any recomondations for printed movie scores? (full orchestra)

I bought schindlers list theme (for violin and piano) from peter alexander and it was very good. But any other sources you've seen or bought from?

I've only made music by ear but recently started from scratch with notes in finale. Suprisingly I understand it fairly decent and have caught up really quick.

What do you personally think is a good source of inspiration?


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## bryla (May 20, 2011)

Sorry about this.....

Ravel, Holst, Rachmaninoff, Mahler etc...

They all contain the techniques used by film composers and they are much cheaper!

If you really need film scores, the only way around is the Deluxe scores from Williams or Smalleys course


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## JJP (May 20, 2011)

bryla @ Fri May 20 said:


> Ravel, Holst, Rachmaninoff, Mahler etc...
> 
> They all contain the techniques used by film composers and they are much cheaper!



Plus, what you see in the score is actually what you get on the recording! No added synths, studio tricks or processing to confuse the beginner about what the orchestra really sounds like.


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## mikebarry (May 20, 2011)

Buy any of the John Williams Signature editions and do piano reductions of every bar. Don't worry about the classical guys yet - Williams has already learned them for you.

These things are worth every penny. Mike and I collected them for many years before finally "getting" it.

Give yourself time - hit the library - it is worth it.

I am trying to get my brother to do the same thing at the moment.

By library I mean the university one - peace and quiet.


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## Audun Jemtland (May 21, 2011)

bryla @ Fri May 20 said:


> Sorry about this.....
> 
> Ravel, Holst, Rachmaninoff, Mahler etc...
> 
> ...


Why sorry? 
I heard a classical piece once and I thought it sounded like film music.
What's the best way to "get it" ? (isn't it hard when you don't know what your "looking" for?)




JJP @ Fri May 20 said:


> bryla @ Fri May 20 said:
> 
> 
> > Ravel, Holst, Rachmaninoff, Mahler etc...
> ...


That's true. Any good online source for buying those?




mikebarry @ Fri May 20 said:


> Buy any of the John Williams Signature editions and do piano reductions of every bar. Don't worry about the classical guys yet - Williams has already learned them for you.
> 
> These things are worth every penny. Mike and I collected them for many years before finally "getting" it.
> 
> ...


How did you "get it"?

I'll have to buy scores online,we don't have stuff like that here.
It would also be very interesting to see Bernard Herman score and such aswell.

so diving into these will do? :D http://www.halleonard.com/search/search ... ubsiteid=6


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## rgames (May 21, 2011)

You know about IMSLP, right? If not, check it out: www.imslp.org

No film scores, of course, but as was already said, there's a lot that can be learned from the classical repertoire. And it's all free! Well, they accept donations.

Having said that, the Williams signature scores are great. I have 5 or 6 of them - quality of the print/bind is very good. Much better than the Dover miniatures - the large size also makes it easier to write meaningful notes.

rgames


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## Audun Jemtland (May 21, 2011)

rgames @ Sat May 21 said:


> You know about IMSLP, right? If not, check it out: www.imslp.org
> 
> No film scores, of course, but as was already said, there's a lot that can be learned from the classical repertoire. And it's all free! Well, they accept donations.
> 
> ...


Now I know,thanks.

The only Williams scores I see is Hal Leonard stuff, is that what you have? They all seem to be A4 double page booklets


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## bryla (May 22, 2011)

Mike, it's funny that you're sort of advocating to take a shortcut on this. I know one can learn a lot from Williams, I have one of his too, but what HE digests from the masters and put on to his paper can be a great deal different that that I can digest. I would say that Williams is just the next in line chronologically that is to be studied for orchestral scoring.

Audun: I apologized in advance because it might seem like an answer you wouldn't like to be because it involved more effort on your part and wasn't concerned about film music.

The Hal Leonards are the right ones but make sure not buy reductions or arrangements.

Otherwise I would recommend the larger Dover scores, Boosey&Hawkes (great engraving), Schott, Universal Edition. Eventually just do an amazon search for "*title* full score". It's cheaper in the end than to print out from imslp. One series I really like is Eulenburgs Audio+Score. Slightly larger than the Dover mini series, but it's a completely new engraving and you get an audio CD.

There are a lot of different ways to study a score, but the first thing you could do is to take a look at Thomas Goss' excellent youtube channel called OrchestrationOnline


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## wst3 (May 22, 2011)

If I might...

I'm taking a long-cut, and I haven't been at it long enough to see any results, but...

I'm focusing on some of the 'classical' masters right now, listening to various recording while following along in the score, and then trying to duplicate what they did, and then wandering off in the same direction to see what I do with the devices they employed, both harmonically and with respect to orchestration. Right now I am listening to Copland and Barbar, but it varies, and depends somewhat on which scores I can find.

At the same time, I listen to the soundtracks for movies and TV shows (drives my poor wife batty<G>), listening for similar devices. I'm at the stage where my kids are hooked on Harry Potter, so I get a pretty good dose of that, and my wife and I try to chill out once a week and watch a movie, and I pick them based on the composer - also makes her nuts.

Eventually I think it will be very instructive to look at scores from the modern films to see how close I was in guessing at what they were doing. But for now I am quite busy studying my favorite old stuff.

I think the shortest path (ultimately, certainly not in the near term) is to study both classics and modern, in a nearly parallel mode. That's my theory anyway<G>...


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## MichaelL (May 22, 2011)

rgames @ Sat May 21 said:


> You know about IMSLP, right? If not, check it out: www.imslp.org
> 
> No film scores, of course, but as was already said, there's a lot that can be learned from the classical repertoire. And it's all free! Well, they accept donations.
> 
> ...



+1 IMSLP is a very good source, and the Hall Leonard LW signature scores are very good.


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## MichaelL (May 22, 2011)

wst3 @ Sun May 22 said:


> I'm focusing on some of the 'classical' masters right now, listening to various recording while following along in the score, and then trying to duplicate what they did, and then wandering off in the same direction to see what I do with the devices they employed, both harmonically and with respect to orchestration. Right now I am listening to Copland and Barbar, but it varies, and depends somewhat on which scores I can find.




I did that for a long time, using IMSLP (see above) and what CDs I could buy or find at the local library.

Then, I purchased Peter Alexander's Prof Orchestration series, which is a huge time saver. You get score examples and mp3's. So, now I have a broad selection for analysis from one source.

Regards,

Michael


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## Audun Jemtland (May 22, 2011)

Thanks guys.

IMSLP is an ocean of resources,my head is spinning

If you were to make a list...who would be the "john williams" in earlier music history both in film and classical?

Personally I love Disney music,I think I would learn a great deal there.


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## synergy543 (May 22, 2011)

audun jemtland @ Sun May 22 said:


> If you were to make a list...who would be the "john williams" in earlier music history both in film and classical?


Holst
Howard Hanson
Arnold Bax
Mussorgsky (as orchestrated by Ravel)
Stravinsky (early works)
Richard Strauss (tone poems)
Prokofiev
Shostakovich
and yes...Mahler (thanks rgames!)

Others such as Copland Dukas Barber, Bridge, Poulenc, Gliere, Wagner and Vaughan Williams should be on the list too....but I had to stop somewhere.


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## mverta (May 22, 2011)

wst3 @ Sun May 22 said:


> If I might...
> 
> I'm taking a long-cut, and I haven't been at it long enough to see any results, but...
> 
> I'm focusing on some of the 'classical' masters right now, listening to various recording while following along in the score, and then trying to duplicate what they did, and then wandering off in the same direction to see what I do with the devices they employed, both harmonically and with respect to orchestration. Right now I am listening to Copland and Barbar, but it varies, and depends somewhat on which scores I can find.



Wise is your path. Don't take slow progress as an indication of going in the wrong direction - you're heading towards the promised land. But your brain needs time, and lots of it.


Best,

_Mike


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## rgames (May 22, 2011)

synergy543 @ Sun May 22 said:


> audun jemtland @ Sun May 22 said:
> 
> 
> > If you were to make a list...who would be the "john williams" in earlier music history both in film and classical?
> ...



I'll add Mahler.

Mahler usually gets omitted from this type of list and I've never understood why - I think his symphonies are some of the best fodder for film composers. Especially #1 and #5 - they're great romantic, epic, sweeping scores.

EDIT: and Vaughan Williams.

ONE MORE EDIT: Chandos recently has been releasing a bunch of the Vaughan Williams symphonies w/ Hickox/LSO and I think they're outstanding. The performances are great, of course, but the engineering on the albums is *really* good.

rgames


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## Ethos (May 24, 2011)

Ravel - Daphnis et Chloe
Holst - The Planets
Stravinsky - Rite of Spring


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## JJP (May 24, 2011)

mikebarry @ Fri May 20 said:


> Don't worry about the classical guys yet - Williams has already learned them for you.


 :shock: 
Don't worry about a balanced diet either. There are multivitamins and supplements that already have all the nutrients for you. 
(o)


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## MichaelL (May 24, 2011)

Sorry to jump off topic for a moment. But, as we are discussing source material. Anyone know where I can get full Ennio Morricone scores? I have a piano reduction of the "best of." 

regards,

Michael

OK -- back to our regularly scheduled topic.


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