# Logic Pro X GUI Slow



## fiction (Feb 13, 2020)

Hi guys,

Does anyone know what might be causing this problem?  

It's the first time I have a Mac tower and my previous iMac and my old mbp don't do this. 

I'm running Logic Pro X 10.4.8 on macOS Catalina 10.5.3 in a nMP 12-Core; 32GB Ram; 1TB SSD; Radeon Pro 580x. I'm using a Dell 32'' 4k monitor as my main (DisplayPort to USB-C) and a Dell 27'' 1440p as my secondary (HDMI). 

I know a lot of you guys use 4k monitors and more than one monitor so I figured I could try asking around here if anyone has ever dealt with a problem like this. It's currently really annoying to work in Logic Pro while zoomed in the arrangement. Basically if I want to copy anything with a big project I must zoom all the way out otherwise it takes forever.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 13, 2020)

Does it do the same thing in every project, after you restart your computer?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 13, 2020)

I can conform that it shouldn't be moving slowly. My 5,1 12-core Mac Pro isn't like that, and I think the nMP is the newer one, right? The black one?


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## fiction (Feb 13, 2020)

It does the same thing no matter what, I've been working like this. 

It's the new Mac Pro 2019.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 14, 2020)

Wow.

I'm not sure which Logic forum to recommend, but this seems like a question to pose in one that's very active. David Nahmani runs this forum, and it's *probably* a good place to get help:









Logic Pro Help


Ask your Logic Pro questions, get answers from the most active and supportive community of friendly music producers.




logicprohelp.com


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 14, 2020)

Hang on. Are you time-stretching/shrinking everything? For some reason I'm unable to watch the video again, but that would explain it.


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## fiction (Feb 14, 2020)

I'm asking for help on that forum also, thanks for suggesting  

I'm not stretching or shrinking anything. Just opening up a new project and loading a bunch of tracks will do this. 

I'm sure this is some bug/incompatibility but I'm having a hard time figuring out what it's causing it since everything installed so well and is running great.


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## Helpermedia (Feb 15, 2020)

I have the previous Mac Pro (late 2013) with a 4K Dell 32" monitor (UP3216Q) and also had a lot of gui lag (for me in Presonus Studio One) when using scaled resolutions.
It got solved by using a different display profile (System preferences -> Displays -> Colour). I'm using the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile now and changed the Dell monitor settings to sRGB (and brightness to 100%, because the sRGB modus on the Dell is a bit more dark). 
Also get much better audio performance (lower latency possible) when I'm using sRGB profile.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 15, 2020)

Ah, yeah, I have read about display issues.

For what it's worth, I'm using a Radeon RX560 - the one below it, of course - and I can look up my settings if that will help.


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## IFM (Feb 15, 2020)

In a similar situation after not having any issues. MP2013 12 core. LPX isn't updating graphics. Sometimes huge sections are missing and it won't display till you update a zoom or select a track in the missing area. 

The attachment is an example of a smaller chuck missing. It's definitely a LPX issue as nothing else has a problem.

As for the OP, yes I thought I was smooth but today it does seem laggy a bit. Zoom levels don't matter.

EDIT: Not happening on a new template. I’m beginning to suspect hitting the max RAM issue.


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## IFM (Feb 16, 2020)

Yes it is the memory issue. Closing the VEP template for my project which I wasn’t using fixed the issue. For the OP I would look at your memory usage to see if you are using too much.


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## fiction (Feb 17, 2020)

Will look into that! 

For the time being I selected low resolution mode in the macOS display preferences. It’s helping a bit while the project doesn’t get crowded. 

I need to get this sorted cause it’s unacceptable but for now I need to finish some work.


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## snattack (May 21, 2021)

fiction said:


> Will look into that!
> 
> For the time being I selected low resolution mode in the macOS display preferences. It’s helping a bit while the project doesn’t get crowded.
> 
> I need to get this sorted cause it’s unacceptable but for now I need to finish some work.


Did you sort this out? I have the same problem, and it isn't a RAM issue. On my end it seems to be related to high track count even if the tracks are disabled, just enabling a few of them causes these problems.


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## IFM (May 21, 2021)

snattack said:


> Did you sort this out? I have the same problem, and it isn't a RAM issue. On my end it seems to be related to high track count even if the tracks are disabled, just enabling a few of them causes these problems.


I know you weren't asking me directly but on my end, the missing blocks are okay now but it still has the same issue you are describing...large disabled template, slow updating. I've mostly moved into C11 now which, for the first time in eons, has smoother graphics than LP. I just use LP for some synths now.


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## gst98 (May 21, 2021)

snattack said:


> Did you sort this out? I have the same problem, and it isn't a RAM issue. On my end it seems to be related to high track count even if the tracks are disabled, just enabling a few of them causes these problems.





IFM said:


> I know you weren't asking me directly but on my end, the missing blocks are okay now but it still has the same issue you are describing...large disabled template, slow updating. I've mostly moved into C11 now which, for the first time in eons, has smoother graphics than LP. I just use LP for some synths now.


I had this problem probably 18 months ago. I spoke to Logic support on the phone, and he said they had never had anyone with this problem call in before. We tried deleting preferences and using new users - pretty much everything we could think of, but nothing seemed to fix it.

Anyway, a couple of updates later it just stopped happening and I've never had it since, so I'm surprised to hear people are still having it. At the time I couldn't find anyone writing about it online. I suggest going into the apple support app and getting on the phone so you can talk it through with them. Hope you get this fixed


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## Kent (May 21, 2021)

If your Logic GUI is updating slowly, it could very well be that you have corrupt preferences (although maybe not, as @gst98 experienced—still, worth a try!)

Close Logic Pro
In Finder, ⇧⌘G 
Go to the folder: `~/Library/Preferences`
Select both `com.apple.logic10.plist` & `com.apple.logic.pro.cs`
Select 'Compress 2 Items' <<this will make sure you've got a backup of your current prefs so you can:
Delete both `com.apple.logic10.plist` & `com.apple.logic.pro.cs`
Open Logic Pro << this will populate new `com.apple.logic10.plist` & `com.apple.logic.pro.cs` files

Logic will probably look/behave a little differently, but that's okay—we just removed the preferences that told it what your custom settings were!

Open up that project and try to perform those actions again. If it's improved, then it was a preferences issue, and you should set up Logic to your liking with those fresh pref files. You could go ahead and delete the `Archive.zip` of the bad prefs you made, too.


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## stigc56 (May 21, 2021)

I also have a VERY laggy interface. I found that if the mixer was set to show "Single", then moving around in the arrangement was slowed down. If it's on "Tracks" it's faster.


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## Kent (May 21, 2021)

stigc56 said:


> I also have a VERY laggy interface. I found that if the mixer was set to show "Single", then moving around in the arrangement was slowed down. If it's on "Tracks" it's faster.


I'd recommend the above process for you too, then.


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## stigc56 (May 21, 2021)

I tried it, but it didn't change anything.


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## mscp (May 21, 2021)

fiction said:


> It does the same thing no matter what, I've been working like this.
> 
> It's the new Mac Pro 2019.


is the 580x 8gb VRAM or 4?

Reason I ask is: The UI was super sluggish on my 32" 4K monitor with Radeon 570 4gb Ram plopped in..I then switched to a 5700 and that solved my problem.


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## fiction (May 21, 2021)

snattack said:


> Did you sort this out? I have the same problem, and it isn't a RAM issue. On my end it seems to be related to high track count even if the tracks are disabled, just enabling a few of them causes these problems.


I still have this problem. 

It improved slightly once I updated to Catalina 10.15.7 and Logic to the latest version. It's still noticeable when the track count gets higher but much more manageable. 

I live with it for the time being as I've been a Logic Pro user all my life. Work has been consistent so I haven't had the time to try and solve this problem yet. 

Apple support was really helpful when I first contacted them and we've tried almost all the solutions except re-installing the os. 



kmaster said:


> If your Logic GUI is updating slowly, it could very well be that you have corrupt preferences (although maybe not, as @gst98 experienced—still, worth a try!)
> 
> Close Logic Pro
> In Finder, ⇧⌘G
> ...


I've tried to to this several times and the problem was never solved unfortunately.

I've also tried to boot into safe mode, creating new user profiles with no preferences, using only one 27" screen and more stuff I can't remember and the problem was never solved. 



stigc56 said:


> I also have a VERY laggy interface. I found that if the mixer was set to show "Single", then moving around in the arrangement was slowed down. If it's on "Tracks" it's faster.


Gotta try this out! First time hearing about it.



Phil81 said:


> is the 580x 8gb VRAM or 4?
> 
> Reason I ask is: The UI was super sluggish on my 32" 4K monitor with Radeon 570 4gb Ram plopped in..I then switched to a 5700 and that solved my problem.


It's the 580X gddr5, is that what you're asking? It's been a long time since I've kept up with graphic cards on the market but I remember looking at the specs and reviews and I don't think this is the problem, unless I've got a lemon... which isn't impossible but I think I would have more problems than this.


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## jcrosby (May 21, 2021)

fiction said:


> I still have this problem.
> 
> It improved slightly once I updated to Catalina 10.15.7 and Logic to the latest version. It's still noticeable when the track count gets higher but much more manageable.
> 
> ...


I used to get a laggy UI using 4k. Whenever I've had lagginess the display settings in macos would show 30 Hz. Have you tried temporarily switching the screen resolution to "Default for Display" to see what happens? 

If it is set to default, try the other settings just to see if one of them stops the lagginess. If so it may very well be your cable. (It can also be the display settings, but that's usually when using a TV as a display). Do you happen to know if the cable your using is specifically specced for 4k/60 Hz?

For example a generic USB C DP cable from amazon my not be specced correctly.


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## Bear Market (May 22, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> I used to get a laggy UI using 4k. Whenever I've had lagginess the display settings in macos would show 30 Hz. Have you tried temporarily switching the screen resolution to "Default for Display" to see what happens?



This did it for me back in the day, together with setting the color to "generic RGB profile". I'm on a trashcan though, with a pretty irritable graphics card...


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## snattack (May 24, 2021)

Since this is reproducable on both my systems that has individual preferences files, it’s not that. I also tried trashing the pref.-files.

I haven’t tried rebuilding the template in a pure 10.6.x-file simply because it would take weeks to get it running, and I will only do that if I switch DAW.

I will try two things. One being the mixer setting mentioned here, the other moving all Kontakt plugins out of Logic and into VEP to see if that changes anything. There was some indications that disabling tracks containing Kontakt-plugins would speed things up when I was troubleshooting this in the last project.


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## Hans-Peter (May 30, 2021)

I've done extensive testing and whatever I do (amongst the recommended stuff and way beyond that) the sluggish interface will remain. It's quite extreme; sometimes having to wait for 4s after recording a region. I also redid my template (which is quite huge, 1043 tracks), to no avail. Most of the tracks point to VEP AU3, each spread over 7-8 ports. VEP network is on its dedicated ethernet port and switch (, which I had also replaced in the process of figuring out the root problem of this). Other than that there are about 3 active Kontakt library plugins (multitimbral) and 10 disabled Kontakt libraries in the template. Almost every track has articulation sets attached.

If any of you have further ideas, please share them! I'm desperate! This is happening on my Mac Pro 6,1 (2013 Vader Helmet), 12-core Xeon E5-2697, 64 GB RAM (of which only 5% is currently in use as I only use slaves for testing), 2x AMD D300 with 3 screens attached (1440p | 1080p | 1050p - tried to disconnect two screens, didn't help either), Akitio Thunderbolt 2 Case with four SSDs, MOTU 828es. Running 10.15.7 and Logic Pro 10.6.2 - updated from Mojave where the problem had appeared initially. The update to Catalina (with a clean install!) didn't help unfortunately. I then suspected a GPU memory issue (the D300s have only 2GB RAM each), but iStat reports a max. of 50% usage and even less if Safari etc. is closed).

I'm quite versatile and educated IT-wise (even teach this stuff at university level, for f* sake), but this time I seem to hit a wall.

Please help! Thanks.


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## jcrosby (May 30, 2021)

snattack said:


> I haven’t tried rebuilding the template in a pure 10.6.x-file simply because it would take weeks to get it running, and I will only do that if I switch DAW.


Just import all of the tracks into a new project with the _import logic projects_ option.. I've had to do this 3 maybe 4 times over the years when a project went corrupt. So far it's worked every time, allowing me to save it as a new project, after which it opens and behaves as if nothing ever happened...

That said In 14-ish years in Logic I've never seen an isolated project that had a GUI issue. Every time the GUI issue was the result of something else. Could be a move to the metal API and an old GPU, could be a scaling issue... Not saying it can't happen, but I've not experienced an isolated incident where the project file caused a GUI lag.

Either way importing the tracks to a new project takes no more than one to several minutes, after which you'll have an answer if the project files is playing any role...


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## gst98 (May 30, 2021)

Hans-Peter said:


> I've done extensive testing and whatever I do (amongst the recommended stuff and way beyond that) the sluggish interface will remain. It's quite extreme; sometimes having to wait for 4s after recording a region. I also redid my template (which is quite huge, 1043 tracks), to no avail. Most of the tracks point to VEP AU3, each spread over 7-8 ports. VEP network is on its dedicated ethernet port and switch (, which I had also replaced in the process of figuring out the root problem of this). Other than that there are about 3 active Kontakt library plugins (multitimbral) and 10 disabled Kontakt libraries in the template. Almost every track has articulation sets attached.
> 
> If any of you have further ideas, please share them! I'm desperate! This is happening on my Mac Pro 6,1 (2013 Vader Helmet), 12-core Xeon E5-2697, 64 GB RAM (of which only 5% is currently in use as I only use slaves for testing), 2x AMD D300 with 3 screens attached (1440p | 1080p | 1050p - tried to disconnect two screens, didn't help either), Akitio Thunderbolt 2 Case with four SSDs, MOTU 828es. Running 10.15.7 and Logic Pro 10.6.2 - updated from Mojave where the problem had appeared initially. The update to Catalina (with a clean install!) didn't help unfortunately. I then suspected a GPU memory issue (the D300s have only 2GB RAM each), but iStat reports a max. of 50% usage and even less if Safari etc. is closed).
> 
> ...



Have you spoken to Logic support yet? They will have a more in depth understanding of the inner workings


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## Heinigoldstein (May 30, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Just import all of the tracks into a new project with the _import logic projects_ option.. I've had to do this 3 maybe 4 times over the years when a project went corrupt. So far it's worked every time, allowing me to save it as a new project, after which it opens and behaves as if nothing ever happened...
> 
> That said In 14-ish years in Logic I've never seen an isolated project that had a GUI issue. Every time the GUI issue was the result of something else. Could be a move to the metal API and an old GPU, could be a scaling issue... Not saying it can't happen, but I've not experienced an isolated incident where the project file caused a GUI lag.
> 
> Either way importing the tracks to a new project takes no more than one to several minutes, after which you'll have an answer if the project files is playing any role...


I would agree, that in more than 30 years I‘m using Logic, I never had any graphical issues. BUT, when Logic X was introduced, it sadly changed drastically. With big projects, the response is sluggish, slow and leads to weird behavior. I tried to change every thing: New OS, new template, new, clean install, I even bought a new Mac. Nothing changed, no update improved and I never got any response from the developer neither. Very annoying. But a lot of users obviously do not have that problem though. Thank god it‘s not as bad as Hans-Peter describes it, so I learned to deal with it and started to work a little slower concerning mouse actions :-(


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## jcrosby (May 30, 2021)

Heinigoldstein said:


> I would agree, that in more than 30 years I‘m using Logic, I never had any graphical issues. BUT, when Logic X was introduced, it sadly changed drastically. With big projects, the response is sluggish, slow and leads to weird behavior. I tried to change every thing: New OS, new template, new, clean install, I even bought a new Mac. Nothing changed, no update improved and I never got any response from the developer neither. Very annoying. But a lot of users obviously do not have that problem though. Thank god it‘s not as bad as Hans-Peter describes it, so I learned to deal with it and started to work a little slower concerning mouse actions :-(


I'm sorry to hear. I really haven't seen any issues like this except on older machines where it was often an old GPU that couldn't keep up even if it was 'theoretically' compatible, or a scaling issue, etc. 

Maybe file it as a bug report or hardware issue via the Logic page?:



Feedback - Logic Pro – Apple


(Select bug report or hardware/compatibility from the menu)


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## jbuhler (May 30, 2021)

Hans-Peter said:


> I've done extensive testing and whatever I do (amongst the recommended stuff and way beyond that) the sluggish interface will remain. It's quite extreme; sometimes having to wait for 4s after recording a region. I also redid my template (which is quite huge, 1043 tracks), to no avail. Most of the tracks point to VEP AU3, each spread over 7-8 ports. VEP network is on its dedicated ethernet port and switch (, which I had also replaced in the process of figuring out the root problem of this). Other than that there are about 3 active Kontakt library plugins (multitimbral) and 10 disabled Kontakt libraries in the template. Almost every track has articulation sets attached.
> 
> If any of you have further ideas, please share them! I'm desperate! This is happening on my Mac Pro 6,1 (2013 Vader Helmet), 12-core Xeon E5-2697, 64 GB RAM (of which only 5% is currently in use as I only use slaves for testing), 2x AMD D300 with 3 screens attached (1440p | 1080p | 1050p - tried to disconnect two screens, didn't help either), Akitio Thunderbolt 2 Case with four SSDs, MOTU 828es. Running 10.15.7 and Logic Pro 10.6.2 - updated from Mojave where the problem had appeared initially. The update to Catalina (with a clean install!) didn't help unfortunately. I then suspected a GPU memory issue (the D300s have only 2GB RAM each), but iStat reports a max. of 50% usage and even less if Safari etc. is closed).
> 
> ...


How is your boot drive? I find I start getting peculiar issues whenever my boot drive starts getting cramped for space.


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## Heinigoldstein (Jun 1, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> I'm sorry to hear. I really haven't seen any issues like this except on older machines where it was often an old GPU that couldn't keep up even if it was 'theoretically' compatible, or a scaling issue, etc.
> 
> Maybe file it as a bug report or hardware issue via the Logic page?:
> 
> ...


Thanks for your suggestion, but that‘s what I did a few times already without any reaction from the dev….but well, maybe I should try again !


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## jcrosby (Jun 1, 2021)

Heinigoldstein said:


> Thanks for your suggestion, but that‘s what I did a few times already without any reaction from the dev….but well, maybe I should try again !


While they don't always get back about an issue they have gotten back to me in a few times over the last year. One issue they fixed for the most part a version or 2 later... And if they don't reply I wouldn't necessarily assume they haven't logged it. Sometimes things show up in a fix a few months later... Plus I'd imagine they're pretty busy logging more bug reports now than in previous years given that they currently have to log issues form intel users and M1 users...

Also I just searched and saw a good point someone else mentioned on another forum... Perhaps you could install demos of another 1 or 2 DAWs... If you have no GUI lag in them but do in Logic then I'd recommend recording video somehow showing that the other DAW or two aren't lagging, and pasting a link to video. (I usually either add a dropbox link or upload to vimeo. The upside to vimeo is it won't expire if they don't log your report until after a dropbox link expired...)

I wouldn't be surprised if it may be partly due to your GPU. Even if a monitoring app doesn't show a lot of use there's a lot of other factors. Speed of memory, metal, and how it's probably optimized better for newer GPUs etc... 

One other thing you could try is to call support and ask for pro apps. You could then prod them and ask if there's anyone "senior" in pro apps you can speak to that might be familiar with the issue. (Generally the average person in pro apps doesn't actually know much about their pro apps!  I've found with some prodding, (even if it takes a couple calls), you can eventually get someone on who actually uses Logic heavily and might have a few answers. (Mind you with covid I have no idea if that's currently possible...)


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## Hans-Peter (Jun 5, 2021)

gst98 said:


> Have you spoken to Logic support yet? They will have a more in depth understanding of the inner workings


Thanks, but, unfortunately, they were no help at all. As mentioned, the template had been rebuilt in the latest version of Logic (10.6.2) with issues still persisting.

However, I've made some progress. Suspecting that the D300 graphics (2 GB RAM) of my Mac Pro may be (absurdely) challenged with Logic, I tried an eGPU with 8 GB RAM. Indeed, that improved the overall performance of the UI, but would not solve the stalling of the system. Every now and then (especially after recording) I'm being presented with the spinning ball of death, during which Logic becomes unresponsive. These halts last about 1-2 seconds. After that everything works (almost) fine, but these halts occur quite frequently and also show during editing almost at a periodic timeframe (e.g. it also happens while cutting stuff in the arrange window).

I've been suspecting this to be related to VEP Pro, but cannot find the root cause of it. All VEP instances are decoupled and preserved. They all run on a dedicated network with a dedicated switch (1x Mac Pro, 1x MacBook Pro, 1x PC).

Interestingly, when looking into Console at the time when these halts occur, I find some error messages spit out by Logic:
error 11:27:53.408612+0200 Logic Pro X AudioDeviceStart: no device with given ID

I use a MOTU 828es (only 1 year old). I tried both the Thunderbolt as well as the USB connection - both with exactly the same result. I'm starting to wonder whether my issues may be rooted in my interface. Going to investigate that and report back soon.

UPDATE: The same error is shown in console no matter what audio interface is selected. The same with built-in audio as well as the MOTU 828es. 

ANY IDEAS WOULD BE EXTREMELY APPRECIATED? HELP!


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## gst98 (Jun 5, 2021)

Hans-Peter said:


> Thanks, but, unfortunately, they were no help at all. As mentioned, the template had been rebuilt in the latest version of Logic (10.6.2) with issues still persisting.
> 
> However, I've made some progress. Suspecting that the D300 graphics (2 GB RAM) of my Mac Pro may be (absurdely) challenged with Logic, I tried an eGPU with 8 GB RAM. Indeed, that improved the overall performance of the UI, but would not solve the stalling of the system. Every now and then (especially after recording) I'm being presented with the spinning ball of death, during which Logic becomes unresponsive. These halts last about 1-2 seconds. After that everything works (almost) fine, but these halts occur quite frequently and also show during editing almost at a periodic timeframe (e.g. it also happens while cutting stuff in the arrange window).
> 
> ...


That's a shame, sorry to hear it.

I'm sure you've already tried, or Apple asked you, but the default response they usually give is to do NVRAM + SMC reset. Then make a new user and see if it persists there. Then build the system up bit by bit in trial an error: start with no interface at all, add SSDs and VEP in etc.

Does this occur on your MacBook? and have you tried copying preferences over from one to the other? garageband? older logic versions?

otherwise I don't think I'm much help


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## Heinigoldstein (Jun 5, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> While they don't always get back about an issue they have gotten back to me in a few times over the last year. One issue they fixed for the most part a version or 2 later... And if they don't reply I wouldn't necessarily assume they haven't logged it. Sometimes things show up in a fix a few months later... Plus I'd imagine they're pretty busy logging more bug reports now than in previous years given that they currently have to log issues form intel users and M1 users...
> 
> Also I just searched and saw a good point someone else mentioned on another forum... Perhaps you could install demos of another 1 or 2 DAWs... If you have no GUI lag in them but do in Logic then I'd recommend recording video somehow showing that the other DAW or two aren't lagging, and pasting a link to video. (I usually either add a dropbox link or upload to vimeo. The upside to vimeo is it won't expire if they don't log your report until after a dropbox link expired...)
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for your effort to help me, I really appreciate it (even if my response is a bit slow in the moment ). I‘m pretty sure it‘s not the CPU too. As mentioned I even changed Macs a few years ago. Maybe calling them is a good idea, even if my experience with Apple support is mediocre here. I might do after I moved to BigSur and Logic 10.6.. so they do not have the excuse of an old version


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## snattack (Jun 14, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> Just import all of the tracks into a new project with the _import logic projects_ option.. I've had to do this 3 maybe 4 times over the years when a project went corrupt. So far it's worked every time, allowing me to save it as a new project, after which it opens and behaves as if nothing ever happened...
> 
> That said In 14-ish years in Logic I've never seen an isolated project that had a GUI issue. Every time the GUI issue was the result of something else. Could be a move to the metal API and an old GPU, could be a scaling issue... Not saying it can't happen, but I've not experienced an isolated incident where the project file caused a GUI lag.
> 
> Either way importing the tracks to a new project takes no more than one to several minutes, after which you'll have an answer if the project files is playing any role...


Yeah, that won't work, since import project won't route properly to Summing Stacks in the way I've set them up. But it seems people have the same problem even if rebuilding the entire project file.


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## snattack (Jun 14, 2021)

Hans-Peter said:


> Interestingly, when looking into Console at the time when these halts occur, I find some error messages spit out by Logic:
> error 11:27:53.408612+0200 Logic Pro X AudioDeviceStart: no device with given ID
> 
> I use a MOTU 828es (only 1 year old). I tried both the Thunderbolt as well as the USB connection - both with exactly the same result. I'm starting to wonder whether my issues may be rooted in my interface. Going to investigate that and report back soon.
> ...


To sum this up:
The description here that someone mentioned, when reaching a high track count, just activating a couple of instruments start to cause this issue, even if the tracks are hidden, both in the mixer and in the arrange window. Removing tracks, will remove the issue. But this is not consistent. Sometimes it works fine for a while. Sometimes it starts after having Logic open for a while. For me at least, it's impossible finding another reproducable pattern than the fact that high track count is a common factor.

When the issue is going in, it can lag 1-2 seconds every time a region is recorded. Or when switching track. Or when transposing a note in a midi region. It's random and selecting the same track again that previously lagged, won't cause it to lag again. At least not directly.

This is most likely not a GPU issue. It is true that slower GPU will cause a sluggish interface as well, but this kind of lag is not GPU related, this is something else blocking the process. 

Also: This is definitely not an issue with corrupt preferences. Several of us has tried methods of rebuilding these, and for me, I have the same issue on two different systems. Both are running Catalina, so Logic is using Metal.

Also, even though the mixer can slow down the GUI, this is not the same lag. Having no mixer (or no window at all other than the arrange window) open doesn't remove the delays.

I'm starting to wonder if this has something to do with Logic's multiple buffers. That adding more tracks (even though they are disabled) will increase the buffer size of the non-activated tracks, and that it has to do with arming/rearming, but that's just a wild guess.

Another alternative is that I sometimes find the issue more persistent when using an external control surface to control channel strip volumes. If it has something to do with Logic updating the fader position. But I haven't fully been able to reproduce this. I'm curious @Hans-Peter , are you using a control surface to control track volume?

A third alternative is that I sometimes hear it accessing my external drives in close proximity to the lag. Either if a Kontakt plugin or Logic itself is doing some kind of quick indexing.

A fourth alternative (that I tried) is the backup snapshot, that a large project file will be autosaving after every thing you've done (in case of crash) and that writing to the disc is what causes the delay.

A fifth alternative: For me, some Kontakt instruments seems more prone to this. Entirely removing Damage 2 from one project stopped the lag for a while, but I'm not sure if it's because I removed channels or if it was the actual plugins causing this.

For me, if this is not solved before end of June, this is the nail in the coffin of 9 years of Logic use, and I'll start preparing a gradual transition to Nuendo. It's simply not fun working with a DAW where you're angry and frustrated 95% of the time, and when NOTHING helps, very few people has this issue (probably due to my template size being very large), and Logic support won't ever get back. It's totally killing the creative flow for me.

It's fine if Logic would have a limit of 512 tracks. Then that would be something to adapt to. But claiming that a software can handle certain things, letting people invest thousands of hours learning it, and designing complex template setups for months or years, just to discover that "well no, it's not working, even though it should". It's just a tragic waste of time for us who put a lot of work into this.

I've tried every preference on/off with no success, every channel setting there is. If someone would find a solution for this, I'm almost prepared paying a reward as a last desperate measure.


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## gst98 (Jun 15, 2021)

snattack said:


> Logic support won't ever get back. It's totally killing the creative flow for me.


You can phone them on the normal Apple support line now and have a proper conversation


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## snattack (Jun 15, 2021)

gst98 said:


> You can phone them on the normal Apple support line now and have a proper conversation


Did not know that. I have booked a meeting, let's see where that leads.

I'm also today test-running with a workaround to completely disable autosave to see if that helps. So far, I still have a little bit of lag in the few tracks currently containing MIDI.


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## gst98 (Jun 15, 2021)

snattack said:


> Did not know that. I have booked a meeting, let's see where that leads.
> 
> I'm also today test-running with a workaround to completely disable autosave to see if that helps. So far, I still have a little bit of lag in the few tracks currently containing MIDI.


The one you were probably using is an unofficial support. Or there is that form they have, but I don't know how much use it gets seeing as the latest app and OS versions aren't even listen on the form. They introduced this one about a year ago. If you haven't already, download the Apple Support app which is easier to use than the web version.


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## Marsen (Jun 15, 2021)

Sorry, if this is obvious, but did you try Project Management > Clean Up?


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## snattack (Aug 11, 2021)

After working with Apple support and finding no solutions for this, I've decided to transition to Nuendo instead. After briefly trying it out, everything about it is faster in terms of response, even with empty Logic projects. The 30+ reported bugs that I've never seen Apple do anything about for years that are very specific to working with large orchestral projects I could live with, but 1-2 second delay every time I select anything – reproducible on multiple machines – that is the nail in the coffin for me.

The response I got from Apple support was that "well, Logic probably can't handle that amount of tracks", which is far less than the maximum specifications. I wish that the specification did not claim to be able to handle 1024 instrument channels, when in fact it can't. It would have saved me 6 months of template tweaking that I need to completely redo from scratch now.


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## IFM (Aug 11, 2021)

snattack said:


> After working with Apple support and finding no solutions for this, I've decided to transition to Nuendo instead. After briefly trying it out, everything about it is faster in terms of response, even with empty Logic projects. The 30+ reported bugs that I've never seen Apple do anything about for years that are very specific to working with large orchestral projects I could live with, but 1-2 second delay every time I select anything – reproducible on multiple machines – that is the nail in the coffin for me.
> 
> The response I got from Apple support was that "well, Logic probably can't handle that amount of tracks", which is far less than the maximum specifications. I wish that the specification did not claim to be able to handle 1024 instrument channels, when in fact it can't. It would have saved me 6 months of template tweaking that I need to completely redo from scratch now.


I feel you. I am working on creating some live versions of older pieces that I did (even as recent as 2019) in Logic and adding some parts for live players. It is a complete mess and this seems to have something to do with Big Sur since even a brand new M1 machine gets sluggish with large track counts (can be empty tracks). C11, which used to be the slow one, is snappy and quick (that happened when they went to Metal support).


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## jbuhler (Aug 11, 2021)

snattack said:


> After working with Apple support and finding no solutions for this, I've decided to transition to Nuendo instead. After briefly trying it out, everything about it is faster in terms of response, even with empty Logic projects. The 30+ reported bugs that I've never seen Apple do anything about for years that are very specific to working with large orchestral projects I could live with, but 1-2 second delay every time I select anything – reproducible on multiple machines – that is the nail in the coffin for me.
> 
> The response I got from Apple support was that "well, Logic probably can't handle that amount of tracks", which is far less than the maximum specifications. I wish that the specification did not claim to be able to handle 1024 instrument channels, when in fact it can't. It would have saved me 6 months of template tweaking that I need to completely redo from scratch now.


I haven’t encountered this problem regularly in Logic but my track counts rarely exceed 150. Occasionally, say once every couple of days, I do get the beach ball while changing tracks and it will sometimes last as long as 30 seconds. It only happens on one machine though, and I’ve attributed it to the security software IT insists run on the machine since that’s the main difference in set up between my machines. That hanging issue is also not dependent on track count or how old the project is. It happened last night with a new project that had only 16 tracks. So go figure. 

I understand the frustration. I mostly gave up Studio One because I encountered similar problems when my track counts exceeded 50. (That may be improved in version 5, I don’t know, but it made for a miserable experience in version 4.) if I was getting the beach ball issue on Logic more regularly, I’d also be looking at other DAWs.


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## snattack (Aug 16, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I haven’t encountered this problem regularly in Logic but my track counts rarely exceed 150. Occasionally, say once every couple of days, I do get the beach ball while changing tracks and it will sometimes last as long as 30 seconds. It only happens on one machine though, and I’ve attributed it to the security software IT insists run on the machine since that’s the main difference in set up between my machines. That hanging issue is also not dependent on track count or how old the project is. It happened last night with a new project that had only 16 tracks. So go figure.
> 
> I understand the frustration. I mostly gave up Studio One because I encountered similar problems when my track counts exceeded 50. (That may be improved in version 5, I don’t know, but it made for a miserable experience in version 4.) if I was getting the beach ball issue on Logic more regularly, I’d also be looking at other DAWs.


Your tracks: Are they all instrument tracks? Or do you use buses? Well, around 150 I don't have this problem either. It starts around 500 instrument tracks. Even if the tracks are hidden and disabled, just adding a couple of single Kontakt tracks together with a bunch of disabled tracks triggers the problems.


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## jbuhler (Aug 16, 2021)

snattack said:


> Your tracks: Are they all instrument tracks? Or do you use buses? Well, around 150 I don't have this problem either. It starts around 500 instrument tracks. Even if the tracks are hidden and disabled, just adding a couple of single Kontakt tracks together with a bunch of disabled tracks triggers the problems.


It’s a pretty simple layout. Instrument tracks and sections in summing stacks. A few auxes. 

Waiting for the beach ball is annoying and I would be really frustrated if it happened more often. Final Cut Pro exhibits a similar issue more regularly— it drives me batty and I would find it unacceptable if I was using FCP for professional delivery. It’s one of many reasons I’m contemplating moving to Resolve. As I mentioned I have mostly abandoned Studio One for large projects because in encountered slowdowns as track count increased, even though there are many things I prefer about it.


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## hideyourface (Oct 3, 2021)

kmaster said:


> If your Logic GUI is updating slowly, it could very well be that you have corrupt preferences (although maybe not, as @gst98 experienced—still, worth a try!)
> 
> Close Logic Pro
> In Finder, ⇧⌘G
> ...


Thankyou thankyou thank you, my week of suffering has ended


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## IFM (Oct 4, 2021)

hideyourface said:


> Thankyou thankyou thank you, my week of suffering has ended


I'm glad this worked for you. In my case, and I keep going back, this is unrelated to anything other than perhaps the OS as it happens on a new install on an M1 and my 6,1 Mac Pro 12 Core. 

It is 100% ties to hope many elements (tracks) are on screen in the main window. If I collapse all the folders and only show one and want to move parts around it is very smooth. If I want to see all the tracks (doesn't matter if they are active or not) then Logic is super laggy, making editing a nightmare as the lag causes a lot of mistakes in editing because it hadn't caught up to what you were trying to do.


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## Loïc D (Oct 4, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> It’s a pretty simple layout. Instrument tracks and sections in summing stacks. A few auxes.
> 
> Waiting for the beach ball is annoying and I would be really frustrated if it happened more often. Final Cut Pro exhibits a similar issue more regularly— it drives me batty and I would find it unacceptable if I was using FCP for professional delivery. It’s one of many reasons I’m contemplating moving to Resolve. As I mentioned I have mostly abandoned Studio One for large projects because in encountered slowdowns as track count increased, even though there are many things I prefer about it.


On my Mac, the beach ball translates right after into a huge memory use increase. Is it also the case for you ?


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## jbuhler (Oct 4, 2021)

Loïc D said:


> On my Mac, the beach ball translates right after into a huge memory use increase. Is it also the case for you ?


Interestingly I haven’t had the beach ball happening much with Logic recently, but it continues with FCP. With FCP as best I can figure it relates to materials stored on hard drives. What’s not clear is why it’s loading those files. The most usual point it arrives is when I’m searching, then it will evidently start searching on another open library even though that’s not at all how search works in FCP. 

In Logic it tends to occur when I change tracks. But it doesn’t happen even most of the time. One thing that has been happening recently is that Logic hangs and has to be restarted if I work on FCP for a long time without coming back to Logic.


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## snattack (Oct 4, 2021)

I switched to Nuendo because of this, I've been going crazy over how bad Logic has become over the last years.

Nuendo becomes "sluggish" when a lot of Kontakt instances are loaded. It seems Kontakt is not very resource friendly, and combined with Logic (running it internally) it might be the culprit when combined with many tracks in the project.


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## anp27 (Oct 7, 2021)

On my computer personally I noticed GUI improvements after the 10.6 update. Logic has never been this snappy for me. I'm also still on Catalina on a 2012 Mac mini.


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## fiction (Oct 7, 2021)

anp27 said:


> On my computer personally I noticed GUI improvements after the 10.6 update. Logic has never been this snappy for me. I'm also still on Catalina on a 2012 Mac mini.


My logic is also snappier and I’ve noticed an improvement since 10.6 on. 
Not perfect yet but it definitely doesn’t take me out of my creative zone like before.


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## IFM (Oct 21, 2021)

10.7 has made no improvements on this on the MP6,1. I have discovered that it really matters how many tracks are showing on the main window. If I zoom in all tracks vertically, the better it gets and becomes fairly usable. If I zoom way out, any editing of parts (dragging it to another track for example) is extremely laggy. So much so there can be half a second behind what you are doing and that messes up editing. 

It's doesn't seem anywhere's as noticeable on the M1 iMac with 10.7...somewhat improved there it seems. Cubase...zero lag issues (funny too as Cubase was always terribly before they updated to use Metal).


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## Corvin (Oct 21, 2021)

Did you try running LPX in Low Resolution mode?
(Programms - LPX (right mouse click->settings)


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## IFM (Oct 21, 2021)

Corvin said:


> Did you try running LPX in Low Resolution mode?
> (Programms - LPX (right mouse click->settings)


There is no option for this.


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## Corvin (Oct 21, 2021)

Sorry, my description wasn't very precise.

First, open up the Finder.
Then open the "Programms" folder. Right on on "Logic Pro X" and go to "information" in the dropdown menu. Click "Open in Low-Resolution"

Worked wonders on my MP6,1

Then again, I am not sure if you actually need a retina screen for the Low-Res button to appear....


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## IFM (Oct 21, 2021)

Corvin said:


> Sorry, my description wasn't very precise.
> 
> First, open up the Finder.
> Then open the "Programms" folder. Right on on "Logic Pro X" and go to "information" in the dropdown menu. Click "Open in Low-Resolution"
> ...


It was there as an option but made zero difference. Tried a new user and the result is the same. It's okay, I moved back over to Cubase a while ago but still love LP and will see how will it goes when it's time for a new workstation.


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## Emanuel Fróes (Feb 26, 2022)

Kent said:


> ~/Library/Preferences





snattack said:


> To sum this up:
> The description here that someone mentioned, when reaching a high track count, just activating a couple of instruments start to cause this issue, even if the tracks are hidden, both in the mixer and in the arrange window. Removing tracks, will remove the issue. But this is not consistent. Sometimes it works fine for a while. Sometimes it starts after having Logic open for a while. For me at least, it's impossible finding another reproducable pattern than the fact that high track count is a common factor.
> 
> When the issue is going in, it can lag 1-2 seconds every time a region is recorded. Or when switching track. Or when transposing a note in a midi region. It's random and selecting the same track again that previously lagged, won't cause it to lag again. At least not directly.
> ...


I can imagine your frustration, but still have faith in the app  I have a similar problem in the final stages of a template: i select tracks and any operation with tracks is way too slow. Notice that I did not had the same problem days ago, with 10 more tracks. I have 200 tracks only. I tried to check other projects and also all the ritual of troubleshooting. It likes that the tracks are corrupted or so, or that Logic can´t clean some important information and have more work to do even when muting or soloing. What I do now is to flatten my template, save it as an instrument, and start form zero in a new session. Wish me luck 🍀 But it sucks a lot, i get you! 

To leave Logic for Nuendo looks interesting, to Cubase it is a betrayal ;P


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## ControlFreak (Jan 1, 2023)

snattack said:


> ...are you using a control surface to control track volume?


Digging up an old thread but this fixed it for me so in case it helps anybody else...

I've been having the issue for a few months now, even on a new project with two basic software instruments it would take two-seconds to switch track. Seeing what @snattack said reminded me that a little while back Softube updated the Console One to have native control surface support in Logic. I removed it from preferences and for the first time in a long time Logic is actually usable!

Thanks!!!

I'm running LP 10.6.1 on Catalina and can't update because of software that isn't supported in later OS


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