# Theme in the style of Hans Zimmer's 'Planet Earth II'



## muk (Jun 6, 2017)

Hi everybody,

it's been a while since I shared a track. This time I did something slightly out of my comfort zone. It's an orchestral theme track in the style of Hans Zimmer's 'Planet Earth II'. It starts quietly and builds steadily, the strings doing the main work, later supported by a choir and brass.

Newest version:

https://app.box.com/s/cxmebvxtwb8y8vu100sjxb5izjcihj0h


Comments are most welcome.

Old first version I posted for comparison:
https://app.box.com/s/2svzvq0l3kvv2f36oc2b5vh60uet3e8q


Old second version where I tried to implement all the tipps I've got:
https://app.box.com/s/docinh1ijn1sd432vp8zgg7mvhzdqv6t


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## muk (Jun 8, 2017)

Anybody willing to share their thoughts? Any feedback would be welcome.


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## Jaap (Jun 8, 2017)

First of all I enjoyed it Muk and you nailed that Planet Eart feeling really good!

A few things that came to my mind. In the beginning I liked the warm sound of the strings and also the percussion felt good, but around 0.50 it feels a tad more "metallic" in reverb sounding. When the solo strings come in they feel exactly right, but then the contrast with the percussion and strings feels bigger somehow. The strings could be maybe a bit less airy and the percussion feels a bit "hollow".
It is minor, because the overal feeling is good and for me personally just some minor adjustments on these things would make it even more great.
Hope this helps a bit and enjoyed listening to it!


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## Pianistikboy (Jun 8, 2017)

Lovely composition Muk. To my ears, there is too much reverb on the track. I know that Zimmer uses long reverb tails too in this kind of music, but I think your track would be more powerful with less reverb on the strings and perhaps the woodwinds.


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## mac (Jun 8, 2017)

That was nice to listen to apart from one thing - the timing of the percussion sounds off to me?


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## Maxfabian (Jun 8, 2017)

muk said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> it's been a while since I shared a track. This time I did something slightly out of my comfort zone. It's an orchestral theme track in the style of Hans Zimmer's 'Planet Earth II'. It starts quietly and builds steadily, the strings doing the main work, later supported by a choir and brass.
> 
> ...



I liked the track! The only thing that didn't convinced me was the drums. They didn't really sit in the mix and there timing seems to be a little bit of. But overall a great piece of music


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## muk (Jun 8, 2017)

Thank you all! You are right, the percussion is not ideal in its current state. I will look into this. Reverb is another thing to experiment with. A little less reverb is a good idea, I'll try that. Well spotted @Jaap. At around 0:50 some metal percussion is indeed more prominent there. Shouldn't be that way I agree.
Thanks again for all the input. I take everything into account for an overhaul, and I'll post a v2 as soon as I have it ready.


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## Fer (Jun 8, 2017)

Hi @muk, very nice composition; regarding to the percussion i find that the tambourine playing is a little bit out of tempo...


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## novaburst (Jun 8, 2017)

muk said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> it's been a while since I shared a track. This time I did something slightly out of my comfort zone. It's an orchestral theme track in the style of Hans Zimmer's 'Planet Earth II'. It starts quietly and builds steadily, the strings doing the main work, later supported by a choir and brass.
> 
> ...



I enjoyed nice and emotional , I wanted to feel more power or dynamic push, but it could have been the volume.

nice work


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## muk (Jun 9, 2017)

Thanks novaburst. I'll keep that in mind for the mastering of v2. I hope revising the percussion will add to it as well.


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## dannymc (Jun 10, 2017)

hi muk here are my thoughts.

first of all to me the emotion was sort of restraint. like it wanted to be a certain emotion but some how it was held back. like if we were to describe the emotion you were aiming for it only got 60% there. not sure why you were holding it back.

also i think what causes this effect to my ears is your use of percussion. percussion should be that statement section that says "hello look at me this is the emotion i'm trying to make to you here" in other words we should really feel that you are accenting the piece in those moments. to me you are being a little shy with the percussion and also it feels like the percussion was put in as an after thought in the end because you felt you needed to put in percussion. to me it didn't feel that cohesive with the rest of the track. anyway maybe i'm rambling this morning so i'll stop here ha ha. thanks for posting. 

Danny


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## MarcelM (Jun 10, 2017)

i like it overall but i agree on the percussion. it somehow doesnt fit really into the piece and i think they sound a little too much upfront.

like the strings alot... its css right? 

also a bit of less reverb with a shorter tail will improve this piece i guess.


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## muk (Jun 12, 2017)

Thank you Danny. Interesting that you mention 'restraint'. That is something that shows in much of my music. Calm surface and such. It's not something I consciously aim for, but it happens naturally when writing. For epic music that's probably not the best fit. I am redoing the percussion at the moment, lets see if that helps some. Thanks for your comment.

Thank you Heroix, I'll completely redo the percussion and the reverb. The strings are CSS, yes. Did you recognize them by hearing or did you know that that's what I use?


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## Saxer (Jun 12, 2017)

Good track! Beside all comments I hear a lot of rumble in the subwoofer. I think it's better so separate percussion jobs into colour, groove and accents. I think it would be more effective to save the lower hits for the accents.
And I miss a bit of the last 20% of "ff". The track builds very good compositionwise. It's the performance missing the last "boah" moment.


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## MarcelM (Jun 12, 2017)

muk said:


> Thank you Danny. Interesting that you mention 'restraint'. That is something that shows in much of my music. Calm surface and such. It's not something I consciously aim for, but it happens naturally when writing. For epic music that's probably not the best fit. I am redoing the percussion at the moment, lets see if that helps some. Thanks for your comment.
> 
> Thank you Heroix, I'll completely redo the percussion and the reverb. The strings are CSS, yes. Did you recognize them by hearing or did you know that that's what I use?



i recognize them by hearing since iam using em myself and have heard them pretty often 

also if you use the mixed mic i think they dont really need alot of reverb.

i prefer to use a combination of the other mic positions because the mixed mic is a little bit too wet for my taste.


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## muk (Jun 12, 2017)

Thanks for pointing out the sub rumble Saxer, I missed that. It must be due to the percussion. I'll keep an ear on it when redoing it. Your point about the all-in fortissimo is valid too. Checking and adjusting the performance of each instrument at the climax is a good idea. I hope it helps to create more impact.

Well done Heroix. CSS has a characteristic sound, but I find it always difficult to recognize particular libraries in a mockup. I agree on the reverb side of things. CSS has a wonderful sound out of the box and doesn't need much (if any) additional reverb. I've toned it down for v2.


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## Fab (Jun 12, 2017)

I also quite like what Dannymc said about restraint, your track sounds good to me for the emotional intent it carries (and I'm listening on terrible laptop speakers)

--

To me, being biased towards a more restrained approach is a double edged sword, and to help balance it when it is necessary, lately I think of the Inception quote_ "don't be afraid to dream a little bigger"_

^could be something you also would benefit from reminding yourself, when you need to.

as a side note > after keenly following your posts for a while, it's nice to have some music to the name!

edit; oh yeah, in case its unclear...I Didn't mean more reverb


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## dannymc (Jun 12, 2017)

> Thank you Danny. Interesting that you mention 'restraint'. That is something that shows in much of my music. Calm surface and such. It's not something I consciously aim for, but it happens naturally when writing. For epic music that's probably not the best fit. I am redoing the percussion at the moment, lets see if that helps some. Thanks for your comment.



hi Muk just to be clear i wasn't suggesting you put in big epic drums to your track, i just meant that the statement of the drums should be on an equal level to the rest of the piece and compliment it better and not be something that feels like an after thought that was stuck in at the end. this is difficult to achieve i also struggle with this but i guess its about finding the right balance. actually what i find is a good trick is to solo just the percussion in the track and listen to it all the way through. you should almost hear the rest of the track coming to you in your head if the percussion is acting correctly as a hook and rhythmic device. 

Danny


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## muk (Jun 12, 2017)

Beautiful post @Fab ! Thanks a lot. I'll try to keep that in mind. By the way I have posted quite a few tracks on VI-C over time, and exactly this one is not really characteristic for me 

Thanks Danny, no misunderstanding here. I did go through the percussion in solo a few times now, it helps a lot (especially with the timing).

With all the great feedback I got in mind I made a revision of the track. Here it is:

https://app.box.com/s/docinh1ijn1sd432vp8zgg7mvhzdqv6t

I completely redid the percussion. There is less reverb, and I have adjusted the instrument performances in the climax section. I changed the orchestration slightly too, to support these changes. Quite a few changes for mix and mastering as well, mostly because of the new percussion parts.
I do like version 2 better than the first one, so thanks for all the valuable inputs!


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 12, 2017)

Nice track muk, some beautiful melodic passages and quite enjoyable to listen. I agree with others about the percussion, it sounds a bit timid. One small thing that bothers me, is at 1 min, the thunder sheet, stands out a lot for me, like too isolated.


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## MarcelM (Jun 12, 2017)

good job on v2... sounds alot better.


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## Paul T McGraw (Jun 15, 2017)

@muk it sounds really great. If you have time, please send me a PM when you post something so I won't miss it. You have a beautiful melody in the strings.


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## Rowy (Jun 15, 2017)

muk said:


> Anybody willing to share their thoughts? Any feedback would be welcome.



I would like to share my thoughts, although I don't know _Planet Earth_ by Hans Zimmer. I'm more into classical music. Your music gave me a pretty good idea of how it must sound like, so, I guess that's a compliment.

The thunder sheet was a bit too much. It reminded me of an old earplay. The bass made my speakers take a walk across my desk. Wait... I now see you made a revision. I'll listen that first...

There go my speakers again  Still don't like the thunder sheet. Your melodies are fine. Because you have a talent for melody writing, it would be nice if you didn't repeat a melody or a phrase that much. You could easily write variations.

The harmony isn't that interesting, but most people won't notice that. Most musicians neither 

I don't know how to explain this in English, but the composition is built of chunks of music. It's a couple of measures and then a caesura. This composition could do with a second flow, a kind of undercurrent.

If you orchestrate a chord, you don't have to divide it the same way all the time. It makes the music sound like a Psalm.

Nevertheless, it is a nice piece of music and you are very brave to take the criticism. You're willing to learn and that's good.


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## muk (Jun 16, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> If you have time, please send me a PM when you post something so I won't miss it.



Thank you Paul, I'll definitely do that.

Thank you Rowy, I agree with you, with one slight caveat. There is way too much bass, I absolutely agree. I have to correct that, should be an easy fix. The thunder sheet doesn't work either, thank you and Guy for pointing that out. I share your observations about the structure and the harmony too. The musical ideas are basic and sparse, and are repeated with only orchestrational changes. Compared to classical music there is less musical substance. Instead there is more focus on production. So I agree with your observations, but to my understanding these are more characteristics of the genre than specifics of my piece.


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## Rowy (Jun 16, 2017)

muk said:


> Compared to classical music there is less musical substance. Instead there is more focus on production. So I agree with your observations, but to my understanding these are more characteristics of the genre than specifics of my piece.



Yet, you're going to do better, I'm sure. The talent is there and the ability to write beautiful melodies. All you need now is more experience in orchestration and a bit more knowledge of harmony. That shouldn't be a problem.

You don't have to become an expert on harmony. Just fiddle around with subsidiary dominants and perhaps some keen modulation, for example not by the use of a pivot chord, but by using time.

Using time to modulate is very easy. Chopin did it, so it's nothing new. All you have to do is repeat a chord long enough (or let it sound long enough). That chord will gain strength. After a while you can use it as the tonic, subdominant or dominant of a new key. For instance in C minor you can play VI, the chord Ab - C - Eb. If sufficient time has passed, Ab major is the prevailing key, although it is wise to have it followed by a full cadence, like IV V I, or II V I, etcetera. Then you will have modulated.

There are more methods, but I leave it there.


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## muk (Jun 16, 2017)

Actually I do have a bit of knowledge on harmony and orchestration. Too bad it didn't show. I didn't modulate elaborately because in this genre that never happens, not because I didn't know how to do it. I have yet to hear one single trailer that uses any other modulation than abrupt modulation. I appreciate your feedback, but I think you have some expectations that this genre just does not serve. I think you are judging an attempt at epic by classical standards, and that just doesn't work all that well.


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## Fer (Jun 16, 2017)

Hi muk this version sounds a lot better to me. I think that the percussion is still very shy... a more complete rythmical pattern would improve the mood imo


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## muk (Jun 16, 2017)

Thank you Fer. Percussion is not my strongest suit. Good to know that i didn't go overboard there. Maybe I can improve it further, I have to revise the percussion to tame the low end anyway.


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## Rowy (Jun 16, 2017)

muk said:


> Actually I do have a bit of knowledge on harmony and orchestration. Too bad it didn't show. I didn't modulate elaborately because in this genre that never happens, not because I didn't know how to do it. I have yet to hear one single trailer that uses any other modulation than abrupt modulation. I appreciate your feedback, but I think you have some expectations that this genre just does not serve. I think you are judging an attempt at epic by classical standards, and that just doesn't work all that well.



Why lowering your standards? Because some composers in this genre know less than you do? That's not right.


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## Fer (Jun 16, 2017)

Rowy said:


> Why lowering your standards? Because some composers in this genre know less than you do? That's not right.



@Rowy where is the problem with sudden modulations? I think that every classical composer would disagree with that approach of being conservative by default.


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## Rowy (Jun 16, 2017)

Fer said:


> @Rowy where is the problem with sudden modulations? I think that every classical composer would disagree with that approach of being conservative by default.



Classical trained composers do it all, sudden and non-sudden. Chromatic, time, pivot or any other method. That's why you study music. It has nothing to do with conservative or not.

I'm a bit fed up with this. Have fun, kids.


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## muk (Jun 16, 2017)

Rowy said:


> I'm a bit fed up with this. Have fun, kids.



Well I think your point is fair enough. But being patronizing and condescending doesn't really help it.


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## muk (Jun 25, 2017)

Hey guys, just to let you know that all your feedback was not in vain. Here is the third version:

https://app.box.com/s/cxmebvxtwb8y8vu100sjxb5izjcihj0h

I've adjusted the mixing (tamed the low frequencies), the percussion, and got rid of that thunder sheet that stuck out in a bad way. Another improvement in my opinion. Overall I am quite happy with the track now.


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