# Composing around licensed songs



## Neifion (Aug 5, 2014)

Greetings,

I'm in the middle of scoring a short film right now. I scored the intro, and then the director decides he wants to license a song for the intro instead. He let me listen to the song, and I really don't feel like it goes with the scene. I'm worried that the there's going to be this ugly disparity between the licensed songs and my music, especially if the director keeps deciding he wants to replace my music with more licensed songs. Not to mention it would be a lot of wasted work for me. What would you guys do in this situation? Should I voice my opinion?

Thanks in advance!


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## Rctec (Aug 5, 2014)

How come you haven't voiced your opinion? Don't you and your director discuss the film? You might either be helpful to him here, or he might be helpful to you by opening this all up to a different style than you thought appropriate. But your question just seems really alien to how composers/directors work. We discuss all music - so we can figure out the whole movie...


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## G.E. (Aug 5, 2014)

Licensed songs are a real pet peeve of mine.Unless it's a romantic comedy,they have no place in a film.I personally,would voice my opinion.


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## Rctec (Aug 5, 2014)

Tell that to Tarantino!


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 5, 2014)

Rctec @ Tue Aug 05 said:


> Tell that to Tarantino!



Or Scorsese... or Scott... Matthew, take a listen to rc's Thelma and Louise. The score and licensed music are both distinct and have their own character, but they add together perfectly to make the soul of that movie, and it would have been much poorer without one or the other. Hans used southwestern guitar mixed in with ethereal textures which I guess was some shared DNA, kinda. [TANGENT] Would love a score soundtrack to Thelma and Louise one day, like they eventually released for Silvestri's Back To The Future.... and there's another great example of harmony between commercial music and score[/TANGENT].

I'm a big fan of the right commercial music in the right place, but as rc says, a conversation right now is clearly crucial. IMO don't be confrontational. Actually the best thing at this point I'd have thought is a belated spotting session.


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## Ed (Aug 5, 2014)

G.E. @ Tue Aug 05 said:


> Licensed songs are a real pet peeve of mine.Unless it's a romantic comedy,they have no place in a film.I personally,would voice my opinion.



I have no idea why you think that. This probably sounds harsh but if I were I director this attitude would instantly make me not want to hire you. 

Sometimes licensed songs just work better. As others have already mentioned some good samples, but I remember watching The Matrix Live where the end of the movie had a score by Davis rather than the transition into Rage Against The Machine. It was good music and was great fun to hear it as obviously that was the whole point being at a live orchestral presentation of score of the film, but the Rage Against The Machine track was still a better choice.


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## The Darris (Aug 5, 2014)

Always stand up and fight for your music if you feel it is the best choice for the scene. However, you need to explain why. The director has the ultimate vision of the film which should have been discussed when you spotted the scenes with him/her. Again, voice your opinion but always provide strong argument that centers around the director's vision.



Rctec @ Tue Aug 05 said:


> Tell that to Tarantino!





Guy Rowland @ Tue Aug 05 said:


> Or Scorsese... or Scott...



Or Kubrick.


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## madbulk (Aug 5, 2014)

Let's hear the licensed tune.


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## dannthr (Aug 5, 2014)

Yeah, as mentioned, you need to establish dialog with your director.

But if the director is pulling music into the scene that you feel is weird, then you may not completely understand what the director is trying to achieve and you need to talk until you do.

I have seen amazing juxtaposition reached with licensed music choices that, in isolation would seem strange or wrong, but in greater context actually works out really well.

Don't go in to a conversation with your director underestimating their voice, give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they want and let the subsequent discussion determine what's best for the film.


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## G.E. (Aug 5, 2014)

Ed @ Tue Aug 05 said:


> G.E. @ Tue Aug 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Licensed songs are a real pet peeve of mine.Unless it's a romantic comedy,they have no place in a film.I personally,would voice my opinion.
> ...



It's just personal taste. In my opinion,a good film needs to have its own identity. And when they throw together a bunch of songs I've heard before, the film loses its identity and turns into a mixtape. 
You can probably give me some examples where licensed songs work great, and you would probably be right. But those, for me, are rare exceptions. I don't have any kind of attitude. 
I would never act like someone who thinks he knows better than the director, so I don't see why you wouldn't hire me for having an opinion. A suggestion never hurts anybody.


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## markwind (Aug 5, 2014)

The vision for the movie leads all.

If the director has a clear vision, i'm sure he'll have his reasons. And if he doesn't, I'm sure a (or more!) good conversation about it helps to bring about the desired direction.. In both cases tho, it helps you in your work to know the directors' vision as you tho it were your own.. or rather, make it your own ..


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## germancomponist (Aug 5, 2014)

Composer + director + cutter + coffeemaker are all (in) one team, like a baseball team.... . There should be no unexpected things, besides new and good ideas... .


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## givemenoughrope (Aug 5, 2014)

The Tom Green film Freddie Got Fingered (one of the best movies ever made) has a great intro with score seamlessly playing into the song "Problems" by the Sex Pistols. Whoever did that knocked that one right out of the park to me ears.


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## Neifion (Aug 5, 2014)

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all of the helpful replies. A little more background info: they said they really liked the work I did, and that I understand the tone/feeling they're going for. I had a spotting session with the creator/writer/producer and when I handed over my roughs, she and her editor felt they worked well with just minor adjustments (which I have since made and sent along). So I'm not just a composer gone rogue thinking he knows better than they do; we seemed to be on the same page.

It was after I had turned in the scene that the producer e-mailed me saying the editor found a song he wanted to license. Apparently, the editor has final say over the music on this one, which I found kind of odd. Regardless, I was a bit confused that they would have me score a scene, say they liked it, and then the next day go out and try to license a song to replace it.

In respect to them, maybe they just found this other song, liked it better than my intro, and want to use it instead. Like you guys said, it's their vision, but I think I will voice my opinion in that the score works better. They can take it or leave it.

I think it might be wise to also confirm who has final say on the music. Like I mentioned, I gathered it was the editor, but I should make sure. The director apparently is nowhere to be seen on this; perhaps now that they're in post, they put the editor in charge. In any case, I'll find out soon enough.

Cheers!


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## Neifion (Aug 5, 2014)

Forgot to mention as well that this is a long-distance collaboration, and we've never met face-to-face.


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## AlexandreSafi (Aug 5, 2014)

Filmmaking 101: It IS indeed collaboration, and everybody should treat it as a fact and a habit

On a side note:
I actually find that any perfect, intelligent and "non-segregated" blend between licensed songs and the original score is good and important for getting the everyday people interested in filmmusic=~Orchestral music (give or take)... We already have enough artificial borders socially, politically, religiously, etc, etc... It's time Music evolves away from all that by now, it's precisely the power and magic of it...


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## Neifion (Aug 5, 2014)

I contacted my producer regarding my thoughts; waiting on a reply now. :mrgreen:


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 6, 2014)

Ahhhh... the wider story reveals quite a different dynamic and sounds like a pretty dysfunctional one, eh? It sounds like you're discovering the horrors of the power balance - you think you're working to one person only later to discover that has been an illusion. Or is it? It's a crazy world out there, and no less so in low budget. Hope you get better luck with trying to untangle it all.


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## Neifion (Aug 6, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Aug 06 said:


> Ahhhh... the wider story reveals quite a different dynamic and sounds like a pretty dysfunctional one, eh? It sounds like you're discovering the horrors of the power balance - you think you're working to one person only later to discover that has been an illusion. Or is it? It's a crazy world out there, and no less so in low budget. Hope you get better luck with trying to untangle it all.



Yeah, it's pretty crazy... I know one could just ask me why don't I quit now, but I do like the film, they're pretty nice folks (if a little scattered at the moment) and if anything, I just like getting more practice scoring to picture. It's a miniscule amount of money and it never was about that in the first place. In any case, we'll see what they have to say soon!


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## Rctec (Aug 6, 2014)

G.E., I wouldn't hire you because from both of your answers you seem to show an opinion formed with a limited set of knowledge and vision. Where would "The Graduate" be, with only Dave Grusin's score? Or - as mentioned - Marty Scorsese's films, as a narrow example?
But, to get back on point: The editor is the true power on a movie, since he makes or interprets artistic choices in a practical way, usually has a huge hand in temping the movie and most likely runs the dub. Case in point: Ridley and I where talking about the idea of a voice at the beginning of "Gladiator". When we came in the next morning, Pietro had invented a scene around 'B'-roll footage with Lisa's voice. We never looked back, and it informed the style of the rest of the movie.
A director's vision isn't a static, frozen thing. Good directors - usually working with their editors - will constantly search and evolve new possibilities. That doesn't mean that they are fickle and indecisive. They might very well have liked (and still do) your piece yesterday, but today a new idea has opened up a whole new way of telling the story. The fun part is keeping up, or better still, being ahead. I've junked whole scores because I suddenly had a more exciting idea, sometimes things that the director had loved. The most exciting directors are the ones willing to experiment and never shut the laboratory's doors. But that can be the most frustrating ones as well, if you try to consolidate pragmatism like time and budget to the chaos of a free-for-all of experiments and ideas. I survive by never trying to tackle two problems at the same time: I go with the ideas by ignoring the reality of time and budget. Believe me, there will be plenty of people reminding you about deadlines and money, and very few coming up with original ideas and concepts. 
Old songs come with emotional baggage. Sometimes that's useful, mostly not. "What a wonderful world" in "Good Morning Vietnam" is a pretty great use of that sort of baggage.
-Hz-


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## AC986 (Aug 6, 2014)

Rctec @ Wed Aug 06 said:


> both of your answers you seem to show an opinion formed with a limited set of knowledge and vision.
> -Hz-



That's quite rare for round here when talking about films. I'm shocked. :lol:


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## markwind (Aug 6, 2014)

Thanks Hans, this is one of the more insightful posts on this forum so far (insightful & relevant to me personally, I should mention), it touches upon lots of elements and of course inspires many more questions as a result. Particularly in regards to your the comment on never tackling two (or more) problems at a time in regards to how you approaching balancing creativity with time and budget.


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## G.E. (Aug 6, 2014)

> G.E., I wouldn't hire you because from both of your answers you seem to show an opinion formed with a limited set of knowledge and vision.


With all due respect,I've always thought that personal taste is just that.PERSONAL.And it can't be right or wrong.If you don't like pineapple in your pizza,does that mean you shouldn't be hired as a chef at a pizza restaurant and your opinion is formed with a limited set of knowledge about pizza ? There are many people who don't like some of your work,while I love it. It's all about personal taste.
But fortunately for me, you don't have to hire me. There are so many creative people in the world today that I can find a like minded individual who will hire me. Art isn't an exact science and you can go about creating it in many different ways.


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## Valérie_D (Aug 6, 2014)

Rctec @ Wed Aug 06 said:


> I survive by never trying to tackle two problems at the same time: I go with the ideas by ignoring the reality of time and budget. Believe me, there will be plenty of people reminding you about deadlines and money, and very few coming up with original ideas and concepts.
> -Hz-



This is a challenge, sticking too closely to an idea because I think I "found it" or experimenting in too many directions. Overpreparing and overthinking, resulting in wasting time without having actually produced the music or, on the other hand, diving in head first...this is quite a daily adventure :D


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## markwind (Aug 6, 2014)

Valérie_D @ Wed Aug 06 said:


> This is a challenge, sticking too closely to an idea because I think I "found it" or experimenting in too many directions. Overpreparing and overthinking, resulting in wasting time without having actually produced the music or, on the other hand, diving in head first...this is quite a daily adventure :D



Maintaining that balance is an artform in and of itself. Though I guess you can wonder if it is even something to maintain or something you can "just" glide/feel your way through. 

I hope to know/learn more on this with a few more years of experience under my belt . With what little experience I have, I'm going with the idea that this balance doesn't require conscious effort for me when the right and left brain are in the same zone - if that makes any sense . 

And true originality? I am not going to touch that subject with a ten foot pole.. :D


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## germancomponist (Aug 6, 2014)

Rctec @ Wed Aug 06 said:


> I go with the ideas by ignoring the reality of time and budget. Believe me, there will be plenty of people reminding you about deadlines and money, and very few coming up with original ideas and concepts.



+1 Yes!


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## Rctec (Aug 6, 2014)

Dear G.E.,

I think this is a clear case of semantics!

You are mistaking "taste" for "storytelling-device" or "style" and how a director uses them.
Of course taste is personal, but that has nothing to do with, for instance, using "The ballad of Lucy Jordan" in "Thelma and Louise" as a character device.
I think to exclude the possibility of anything and any method in making a movie narrows your creative playing-field. Yes, no argument, just like gratuitous sex and violence, songs have been used in a horrible, marketing-driven cheesy way in movies (while pineapple on pizza is just criminally bad taste), but I wouldn't turn down Marty Scorsese and accuse him of bad taste - or think of your taste as somehow superior - just because he'd want to use a song in his movie.

I find that a conversation about good taste or bad are usually irrelevant once you're in the room with a film-maker. They hope you got all that "teen-age-importance" stuff out of your system when growing up, and you hope that neither they or you are going to be asked if we want some bread with our cheese 

But are you saying that Mike Nichols has bad taste because he used songs as score in "The Graduate"?

All I'm questioning and cautioning is the absolutism of shutting any door on a method, when really each film should be approached with finding an appropriate style, while you are already sounding a bit narrow-minded by putting restrictions and rules up front, which is different than coming at it with a point of view and a personal aesthetic.

...And then there is the whole subject of "Guilty Pleasures"...

Best,

-Hz-


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## givemenoughrope (Aug 6, 2014)

To me, this clip proves that it's all about the film makers, the director, the story, the characters and the music can only be in service of that. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2dewDwIQyM
I don't know who else would ever think to combine George Delerue and Ginger Baker. 

And I've had Hawaiian pizza that was incredible exactly once.


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## The Darris (Aug 6, 2014)

Rctec @ Wed Aug 06 said:


> ..(while pineapple on pizza is just criminally bad taste)..



Can you imagine someone eating a pineapple pizza with a fork? I could honestly never work with someone who does that, they are someone who can't be trusted.


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## germancomponist (Aug 6, 2014)

A good example about this theme... .

http://www.vulture.com/2014/08/how-guar ... hosen.html


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## G.E. (Aug 6, 2014)

> but I wouldn't turn down Marty Scorsese and accuse him of bad taste - or think of your taste as somehow superior - just because he'd want to use a song in his movie.


A few things I want to clear up:
1. I've never claimed to have superior taste or to speak for what millions of cinema fans like.I'm just expressing what I personally like or dislike.
2. I've never said that Scorsese has bad taste.
3. The conversation(in my mind at least) was about different taste,and never about good or bad taste.I don't even believe in the concept of good or bad taste since these things are only determined by our culture.What we generally consider good taste is entirely different in Japan for example.



> All I'm questioning and cautioning is the absolutism of shutting any door on a method, when really each film should be approached with finding an appropriate style, while you are already sounding a bit narrow-minded by putting restrictions and rules up front, which is different than coming at it with a point of view and a personal aesthetic.


It's not my place to shut the door on any method.That's entirely the director's decision.Expressing a personal opinion on a forum is not the same thing as telling the director that he's a moron and I refuse to work with him because he dared to make my music share the "spotlight" with some licensed song.


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## AC986 (Aug 6, 2014)

I remember Bernard Herrmann coming round to the college in 69 or 70 to give a talk on film scoring, which at the time was regarded as a bit of a hobby job believe it or not. What was memorable on this occasion was he was funny without meaning to be. 

One thing he hated seemingly above all, was the placement of songs in his films. Very funny discourse on that.


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## The Darris (Aug 6, 2014)

adriancook @ Wed Aug 06 said:


> I remember Bernard Herrmann coming round to the college in 69 or 70 to give a talk on film scoring, which at the time was regarded as a bit of a hobby job believe it or not. What was memorable on this occasion was he was funny without meaning to be.
> 
> One thing he hated seemingly above all, was the placement of songs in his films. Very funny discourse on that.



One man I would wish to be alive to hear speak about music composition. That is an awesome little anecdote Adrian. Thanks for sharing.


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## Neifion (Aug 6, 2014)

Hans, thank you for the insight about keeping an open mind. I've since talked with my producer, and although I still have questions about what they're going for with the song, I think we're getting closer. The important thing is that we're now discussing this openly as collaborators; all in this together. She also cleared up that she's in charge, but often defers to her editor if she's unsure, which is understandable. He has a good eye (editing is tight; the beats and timing are great), and probably a good ear too, I'm just not yet where his head is at with the intro, but I think we're getting there! 

What meant a lot to me as a composer was that she mentioned at first she wasn't quite sure of the tone/feeling of the film, but after I turned in the first few scenes, the score helped her find it, and her gratitude from that was sincere.

Also, I do very much enjoy the dynamism. The minor changes that I mentioned they wanted me to make; well, I ended up scrapping the scene and starting from scratch, and it made a big difference for them in a positive way. It works so much better now, and it's also helped a lot for the later stuff down the road.

By the way Hans, is the scene you mention that Pietro Scalia invented the one that made it into the film, with the wheat followed by Maximus watching the bird fly away? Powerful combination of imagery and music indeed, in how they harken back to Maximus's farm life and family all the way to the end.


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## Rctec (Aug 6, 2014)

Yes, the hand on the wheat. Just saw Ridley at dinner last night. We had a little nostalgic chat about it...

One thing to clear up with G.E.... You think you work for the director. I work with the director....and anything goes in what we say to each other, because we come at it from a position of respect.


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## dannthr (Aug 6, 2014)

With all due respect, Mr. Zimmer, working with a director from a position of mutual respect is something you have achieved in that relationship and unfortunately does not go without saying in all cases.

One can demand it or attempt to earn it, but there are definitely directors out there who do think of the people who create for them as employees or devices to be used.

And those are challenging (and typically uncomfortable) gigs.

As to the topic, I agree, acknowledging the song as a story device is really important--especially when the song lyrically enhances the scene but perhaps musically clashes with existing concept material.

But I feel like that deserves a discussion--I feel like understanding the reasons behind a song selection needs to be revealed, especially if the OP don't feel like its working.

Neifion, I feel like things to consider are the lyrical content of the song itself, which could be a story device, the music rhythm and feel, the song's compositional structure, which could be part of the choice (like a well placed bridge or chorus), and the song as a context relating the scene to an external image or idea (something beyond the film, like a year in history, or a cultural setting).

Some of these things might be achievable without the song--and that's worth exploring too--but some of these things will require symbiosis with the rest of the score.


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## AC986 (Aug 7, 2014)

The Darris @ Wed Aug 06 said:


> adriancook @ Wed Aug 06 said:
> 
> 
> > I remember Bernard Herrmann coming round to the college in 69 or 70 to give a talk on film scoring, which at the time was regarded as a bit of a hobby job believe it or not. What was memorable on this occasion was he was funny without meaning to be.
> ...



Yes he was entertaining. Colourful language and very funny at times. So was Richard Rodney Bennet. He had actually already been a lecturer at the Royal Academy previously. He was good and film music seemed to be a bit of a hobby for him almost. His main interest seemed to be the avant grade although when you hear his film music you would never believe it. They all did the rounds and came round often as did non film people.

For example, try imaging putting a song in this film. The scores were very different and a lot more eclectic back then. For instance, this one by RRB. You would never hear anything like this today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIEAhAfSzWQ


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## The Darris (Aug 7, 2014)

adriancook @ Wed Aug 06 said:


> Yes he was entertaining. Colourful language and very funny at times. So was Richard Rodney Bennet. He had actually already been a lecturer at the Royal Academy previously. He was good and film music seemed to be a bit of a hobby for him almost. His main interest seemed to be the avant grade although when you hear his film music you would never believe it. They all did the rounds and came round often as did non film people.
> 
> For example, try imaging putting a song in this film. The scores were very different and a lot more eclectic back then. For instance, this one by RRB. You would never hear anything like this today.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIEAhAfSzWQ



Wow, a lyrical films score with this eerie element called counterpoint. They sure don't make them like they used to. Great piece Adrian. I am a huge fan of Bernard's work, especially with Hitchcock (go figure). At some point, I am planning on taking a trip down to the University of California Santa Barbara campus to check out all of his papers. I really want to study his techniques and style in hopes to bring some of those old school elements into my own works. Even though I am an 80's born composer, my heart lies with those classics. Again, thanks for sharing your stories. o-[][]-o


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## Markus S (Aug 7, 2014)

Interesting discussion, also G.E. I like that you stand to your opinion.

There was a time when I would probably have said : whatever the client wants, just do it, but these days I'm more vocal about my opinion, which is valuable to my client.

To the OP : You are not just the guy executing orders, you have a personality, you are a professional and you create the music, so have an opinion about it.

You might be surprised at the positive reaction to voicing your opinion, it offers interesting discussions, better mutual understanding and a closer relationship. You client is not 100% sure what's the best solution, he needs your input (and others) to get it right. 

But most importantly : OFFER a SOLUTION, not only a problem. Not just say like: "I don't like the music how can you put that there?!", but think of a concrete solution to resolve the problem, a compromise, a deal, a new idea, whatever, something that makes everyone happy (or as they say, "a good compromise is when no one is happy" ).

Your opinion is valuable, but offer it in a constructive, positive and respectful way.


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## AC986 (Aug 7, 2014)

The Darris @ Thu Aug 07 said:


> Wow, a lyrical films score with this eerie element called counterpoint. They sure don't make them like they used to. Great piece Adrian. I am a huge fan of Bernard's work, especially with Hitchcock (go figure). At some point, I am planning on taking a trip down to the University of California Santa Barbara campus to check out all of his papers. I really want to study his techniques and style in hopes to bring some of those old school elements into my own works. Even though I am an 80's born composer, my heart lies with those classics. Again, thanks for sharing your stories. o-[][]-o



Yes do that. 

These are not really stories. They just normal at the time for music students. Most students were too frightened to talk to Herrmann.  

Hans is right though. These are all story telling devices regardless of the time you're in. Films are very much part of their time; there's a lot of films could never be made today. Audiences just wouldn't understand or care for it and more importantly, producers won't take chances as much today.
Ergo, case in point, The Graduate/ very much part of my particular generation and caused quite a stir when it was released. A big talking point of a film and everyone went to see it. Great film really. This type of film has been recreated many times over the years in different guises and some time before it too.

It just wouldn't have been the same without the Simon & Garfunkel songs. Creates a mood and the required ambience. Brilliant piece of song placement for the time. Would those songs work today in a modern film? 

A lesser known film at the same time, but nevertheless on a parallel, would be Zabriskie Point. Antonioni had already done previously a similar type of genre film with Blow Up. Anti establishment in the UK and then in the USA.
Both the scores, one by Pink Floyd/Jerry Garcia and the other by Herbie Hancock would be regarded more as album music than traditional scores. Both cult status films.

When you watch a film and you can't imagine another score, or another actor in a part or another style of directing, then you know the whole crew owns that film. Part of what makes a film good and timeless.


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 7, 2014)

adriancook @ Thu Aug 07 said:


> It just wouldn't have been the same without the Simon & Garfunkel songs. Creates a mood and the required ambience. Brilliant piece of song placement for the time. Would those songs work today in a modern film?



One that jars for me now is Butch Cassidy's Raindrops Keep Fallin on my Head. I know it was written for the film, its indisputably a classic of a kind, Bacharach and David and all but yikes. Yet others still work par excellence of course.

Another thing I keep thinking of in this thread is no music at all - sometimes its the best thing for the film / story. Blair Witch Project simply would not work with a score at all, but also a film like The China Syndrome drew much of its power from the lack of a score imo - it felt more real to people I think, and therefore it scared them. What serves the film best always comes first.


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## The Darris (Aug 7, 2014)

Adrian,

Your last post basically just told me to watch Zabriskie Point and Blow Up which I am always down to watch something I haven't seen before. I actually watched The Graduate recently for the first time and I do agree, the music selection was perfect with Simon & Garfunkel. I love to watch older movies with the sense of imagining the times that they took place in. The Graduate came out during Vietnam while the draft was happening. Many of the draftees were young men growing up and since this was a 'coming of age' film (one of my favorite genres) it most likely connected to them more. I'm just imaging with all the terrible and amazing events that happened that year, what it would have been like to see that movie in the theatre. Like you said, it caused quite a stir but it ended up becoming timeless. Few movies reach the point that you can watch them during any era and it manages to connect to the audience in some way. I'm betting I could show that movie to my kids (whenever that happens) years from now and it would connect to them. That to me, is the epitome of great film making. One movie I can mention from my generation is Forest Gump. I bet you could show that to a new audience today and it would have a similar impact on the audience that it did 20 years ago. Anyway, I've blabbered enough for one day. I've enjoyed the discussion thus far.


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## AC986 (Aug 7, 2014)

Forest Gump is another form of The Graduate isn't it, when you think about it. Although The Graduate could be argued as a coming of age film, it's also very much in the anti-establishment camp.
The only thing I think about with Forest Gump is it robbed Thomas Newman of an Oscar he should have won. But one man's loss is another man's gain as they say. o=< 

Butch Cassidy was very popular at the time Guy. Uhhhhh. I liked the Bach thing they did in that with the sort of Bach choir/Swingle type singers deal. Strother Martin was very good.
It almost forces you singalong with it. :D 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcLCigVYnOU

Blow Up I like a lot through nostalgia apart from anything else. It's the London I remember best. If you like B&W photography, fast rhythmic Hammond work, David Bailey and weird and wonderful women, you'll love it. :mrgreen:


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## re-peat (Aug 7, 2014)

A rather good example, or so I thought anyway, of working with licensed music ― and doing so on several different levels all at the same time ― occurred in the “Misterioso”-episode of the Arne Dahl series (Swedish crime series), which made extensive use of Thelonious Monk’s *Misterioso* track as a sort of signature motif for the killer. Worked very well to help illustrate and express the dark but brilliant corners of the murderer's mind. 

Not only does the track appear a few times in its licensed form ― the killer has it on endless repeat before, during and after his murders (which means that the police also always hear it whenever they arrive at a new crime scene, the music invariably creating an even more gripping and disturbing atmosphere ―, it is also echoed in the score a couple of times, and the actual existence of the (original) Monk track is, on top of all that, also a very important element of the story itself in that the search for a rare version of this track, eventually provides the key to reveal the killer’s identity. (I might have a few tiny details wrong here, it’s been a while since I’ve seen the episode, but I think I remember most of it correctly.)

Not all licensed music is (or has to be) as deeply integrated in the fabric of a cinematographic story as it does in this instance of course, I’m only giving an example of one way in which it can work very, very well.

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## Patrick_Gill (Aug 24, 2014)

I think a great director will value your point, not shut ideas down and be open to new possibilities. Then a great director will also be a friend imo. 

Technically, yes the director will get the final say but usually that statement I've found " I get the final say'' is often quoted when he or she is disagreeing with a particular opinion or feels pressured. Perhaps your approach is wrong or maybe they're very particular… either way it's about communication and they shouldn't have to feel like they need to express their authority.

To elaborate further, I don't think anyone should have to bow down and obey whilst accepting the director decision as absolute final without question - this happens far too much I fear with composer/director relations. It doesn't help to build a strong working relationship and it certainly doesn't help the film. 

People pay for your opinion. If the music really is not working with the scene for whatever reason (score or licensed track) then there's no reason you should sit in the dark about it. 

This is probably a weird way of looking at it… but I often compare the director/composer relationship to a marriage haha. Leave nothing off the table and just be honest :D. It works for me.


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