# Rush?



## EastWest Lurker (May 25, 2013)

I watched the rock and roll hall of fame induction ceremony. I was not very familiar with Rush and after their performance, i am still not very familiar with Rush

Clearly, they are terrific players but is there some rule they have about never having a singable melody? It seems like the formula is:
1. Play the riff.
2. Improvise.
3. Play the riff.
4. More improvising.

Once agin, terrific musicians, but I do not understand the apparently the love of the music itself. But when a group is THIS popular and clearly hat skilled, I always assume the fault lies with me, so school me folks.


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## Studio E (May 25, 2013)

I can't comment on their performance there as I haven't seen it. Rush was one of my all time favorite bands since about 1980 and they pre-dated their popularity with me by almost a decade. I loved them for their powerful and sophisticated lyrics, power riffs, use of synths, their sincerity, and the HUGE level of talent and individuality of each member. It can't be overstated. They are amazing. Whether or not their music suits anyone in particular's taste, that's another story. Their catalog is huge and diverse. There is no one album that incapsulates them as a whole and they have grown and matured musically over the years, gone through phases, etc. My personal favorite, which is right in the middle of their career would be Counterparts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkLVQYv3tE . Listen to the first track if nothing else and if that doesn't sell you, there's nothing I can do otherwise. Holy shit! Just listening to that link right now sends goosebumps down my spine! Lol, love them!


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## Darthmorphling (May 25, 2013)

Rush is one of those bands that you either like, or you don't. I would even say that each of their songs falls under that category as well. Most of the people i know that like them are musicians. Surely you have heard "Tom Sawyer".


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## KEnK (May 25, 2013)

Don't what they played but I thought they were more melodic and hook oriented
than most prog bands during the 70's.
I was never a fan, but saw them as somewhere between the more complicated prog groups (like Gentle Giant) and maybe Led Zeppelin.
I stopped paying attention to them by the 80's.

What were you listening to as a teen Jay?

k


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## EastWest Lurker (May 25, 2013)

KEnK @ Sat May 25 said:


> Don't what they played but I thought they were more melodic and hook oriented
> than most prog bands during the 70's.
> I was never a fan, but saw them as somewhere between the more complicated prog groups (like Gentle Giant) and maybe Led Zeppelin.
> 
> ...



Remember I am 64 years olds, so Beatles, Stones, Animals, Kinks, Yardbirds, Motown, Burt Bacharach, etc.

But anyway please point me to a Rush song as hooky as "Whole Lotta Love" or "Stairway To Heaven".


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## MarkS_Comp (May 25, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Sat May 25 said:


> Rush is one of those bands that you either like, or you don't.



Ok, what band does not fall under that category? :lol:


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## KEnK (May 25, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat May 25 said:


> ...please point me to a Rush song as hooky as "Whole Lotta Love" or "Stairway To Heaven".


I can't...

I'm just about 56, so we're in the same age ballpark.
Guess you must've bypassed the whole Prog thing in the 70's eh?

k


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## EastWest Lurker (May 25, 2013)

KEnK @ Sat May 25 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sat May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > ...please point me to a Rush song as hooky as "Whole Lotta Love" or "Stairway To Heaven".
> ...



No I listened some to King Crimson, Genesis and Yes. 

So please point me to a Rush song as hooky as "Dancing In The Moonlight"


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## KEnK (May 25, 2013)

I was never a Rush fan and was only peripherally aware of them back then,
so I'm not the guy to point you to a tune.

Saying they're somewhere "between LZ and GG" is only my way of trying to place them
in the continuum for you. Cuz you said you weren't familiar.

They were a little to "comic booky" for me.
I was much more into Mahavishnu.
Now there's some hooks for you! :wink: 

k


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## EastWest Lurker (May 25, 2013)

What, not Sun Ra?


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## KEnK (May 25, 2013)

Hah!

I love Sun Ra!

Because I lived in Buffalo I would see him in Toronto
He played Buffalo too.

I probably saw him more than any other Jazz great.
McCoy Tyner would be a close second.

I play w/ a bunch of avante nuts who have played a few Sun Ra tunes over the years.
Astro Black, (now there's a hook!) El is the Sound of Joy, Call for All Demons, Space is the Place, maybe a few others. 
Did you know that June Tyson is Cicely Tyson's sis?

I used to play Sun Ra sides when I wanted to get people out of my house. :mrgreen: 

A Classic Ra story-
After Sun Ra passed, Marshall Allen was doing gigs with local pick up musicians.
I know a bassist who did a gig w/ them.

They're on the bandstand and Allen says to my pal,
"Do you know Prelude to a Kiss"
Bassist says, "No".
Allen says, "Ok, one two three four..." and goes straight into the tune.
That's how you do it!

k


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## Waywyn (May 25, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat May 25 said:


> I watched the rock and roll hall of fame induction ceremony. I was not very familiar with Rush and after their performance, i am still not very familiar with Rush
> 
> Clearly, they are terrific players but is there some rule they have about never having a singable melody? It seems like the formula is:
> 1. Play the riff.
> ...



I find it hard to explain but to me this kind of music is science/math music and it is not about being hooky or memorizable hooklines. It is about fooling around and experimenting with rhythm, patterns, riffs and the brain.

Using metric modulations and sort of trying to trick your sense and perception. While you can already finish a phrase, whole part of e.g. classical music by only hearing the first few bars, the fascinating thing (at least to me) is to experience the tricks. Once you got into the pattern it changes, sometimes you think you are in the pattern and suddenly it changes.

A great example of this is the beginning of "Mirrors" by Dream Theater: http://youtu.be/6u_hjgbJnh0


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## Studio E (May 25, 2013)

This one does the hook thing for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiRuj2_czzw (www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiRuj2_czzw)


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## Darthmorphling (May 25, 2013)

MarkS_Comp @ Sat May 25 said:


> Darthmorphling @ Sat May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > Rush is one of those bands that you either like, or you don't.
> ...



Primus is the only other one I consider in it. People either love them or hate them. Incidentally one of the greatest concerts I have attended was Rush and Primus.

With Rush there is no one I have ever met that said I guess they are ok. It's either I can't stand them, or they are the second coming.

Most other bands people have ambivalent emotions it seems.


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## Darthmorphling (May 25, 2013)

Studio E @ Sat May 25 said:


> This one does the hook thing for me.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiRuj2_czzw (www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiRuj2_czzw)



This one brings out the air drummer in people. You even have Cartman singing before them!


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## EastWest Lurker (May 25, 2013)

Is that a Mumford and Sons cover?


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## Darthmorphling (May 25, 2013)

I believe that was a commercial before the song.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 25, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Sat May 25 said:


> I believe that was a commercial before the song.



Ah, well i will try it again and be more patient. Right now, I have to "Rush" out and do some stuff.


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## Synesthesia (May 25, 2013)

Come on!!!


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## sherief83 (May 25, 2013)

I saw those guys live a few years ago. I enjoyed the drum solo a lot, That was entertaining. That's about the only thing I remember...and that I drank a lot....lol


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## chimuelo (May 26, 2013)

Well when you see Rush with the String Orchestra as Gino Vanelli did a few years back, you might change your mind about the boring riffs, etc.
Had the pleasure to tour with Triumph and Rush back when we had regional sales and Rush was great, but Triumphs Rik Emmet who played a 12 String rhythm/lead and sang lead was probably one of the best live performers I ever saw. Flawless.
The Cannucks have many talented performers and musicians up yonder that never make it down here. 
There was a time when British, and Canadian bands dominated American Record Labels.
See if there are some Rush youtube videos with the Orchestra.
I'd love it if they would have has the whacko Female Violinist form Transberian Orchestra. Saw here at the Orleans a few months ago, what a babe and a very active perfomer. No fake taped crap either like Madonna, GaGa or Shania.
THis gal is realtime like Gwen Stefani.

Rush still rocks and would pay again to see them especially with the Symphony.
Too bad Gino's voice is shot as that was a phenominal show as well.


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## re-peat (May 26, 2013)

I was buying some stuff from HDTracks earlier today (nothing whatsoever to do with this thread), and I noticed that the remastered Rush catalogue is currently on sale there at a special price.
Bundled in three ‘5 album’ collections ("Sector One", "Sector Two" and "Sector Three") and _“mastered from the original masters through analog console, equalizers and compressors before being recaptured at 96kHz-24bit”_, this should be quite tempting to Rush-fans, no?

Anyway, here are the links, if you're interested:






http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=74834174&msgid=1001486&act=GE3R&c=361177&destination=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hdtracks.com%2Findex.php%3Ffile%3Dcatalogdetail%26valbum_code%3DHD00602537409976 (http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php ... 2537409976)




http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=74834174&msgid=1001486&act=GE3R&c=361177&destination=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hdtracks.com%2Findex.php%3Ffile%3Dcatalogdetail%26valbum_code%3DHD00602537409983 (http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php ... 2537409983)




http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=74834174&msgid=1001486&act=GE3R&c=361177&destination=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hdtracks.com%2Findex.php%3Ffile%3Dcatalogdetail%26valbum_code%3DHD00602537409990 (http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php ... 2537409990)

_


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## EastWest Lurker (May 26, 2013)

Once again, there is no denying their talent and skills. I just don't get what inspires the passionate devotion to the music itself.

But I guess I am just too melody-centric to appreciate it on an emotional level, even though I admire it on an intellectual level.


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## Brobdingnagian (May 26, 2013)

C'mon gents. Respect. There ARE wonderful themes in many of these tunes. Give it minute...

Limelight
Fy By Night
Tom Sawyer
Subdivisions
YYZ
Spirit of the Radio
Red Barchetta

...and that is only one era of the groups oeuvres....

Happened to be sitting right next to them at dinner here at Picca in LA about a year ago. Our parties chatted back and forth a bit. Lovely group of guys - thoughtful, interesting and incredibly witty humour.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 26, 2013)

Brobdingnagian @ Sun May 26 said:


> C'mon gents. Respect. There ARE wonderful themes in many of these tunes. Give it minute...
> 
> Limelight
> Fy By Night
> ...



A theme is not a melody. But i will check some of those out.


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## Brobdingnagian (May 26, 2013)

I am terribly sorry, Jay. But I respectfully disagree with your definition of a theme. I have always assumed it was the main theme or melody of a composition (be it Coltrane, Rush, Hindemith or Goldsmith). But of course, could be a language thing and I could very well be mistaken and with all sincerity am open to other interpretations of such things, as it is how I learn. o-[][]-o 

While it is certainly plausible that RUSH is not your cup of tea, a few minutes of listening to my list would at least give you a glimpse into some of their more popular fare, despite most of it being from their late 70's/80's catalogue. Musical recon, as there is so much music to hear in the world, past, present and future.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 26, 2013)

Brobdingnagian @ Sun May 26 said:


> I am terribly sorry, Jay. But I respectfully disagree with your definition of a theme. I have always assumed it was the main theme or melody of a composition (be it Coltrane, Rush, Hindemith or Goldsmith). But of course, I could very well be mistaken and with all sincerity am open to other interpretations of such things, as it is how I learn. o-[][]-o
> 
> While it is certainly plausible that they are not your cup of tea, a few minutes of listening to my list would at least give you a glimpse into some of their more popular fare, despite most of it being from the late 70's/80's. Musical recon, as there is so much music to hear in the world, past, present and future.



i started as a songwriter. To me a melody is something that after a few hearings, almost everyone can ing because it is tuneful and memorable. This is true for anyone from Irving Berlin to Michael Jackson to Lady Gaga.

AdmittedlyI have not heard enough Rush but what I heard on that show sounded closer to more modern jazz where it is motivic rather than melodic. Different in the way Bird's "Ornithology" which I would _not_ describe as a melody, and Brubeck's "Waltz For Debby", which I _would_ describe as a melody.

it does not invalidate it in any way if it is not, but personally without a hooky melody, I just get less emotionally involved and I think most listeners do as well. Bu tonce agin, I see this as MY failing, not Rush.


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## chimuelo (May 26, 2013)

Love Geddy Lee and Pert, but always wished someone else would have sang.
But his voice was a take back to Ethel Mermman which inspired many Glamour Rock LA groups, aka Axel Pose.....


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## George Caplan (May 26, 2013)

never liked them. remember a day when someone told me theres a band that knocks yes into a cocked hat or bowler. forget the expression. so i listened first chance and thought it was funny someone could say that.


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## KEnK (May 26, 2013)

chimuelo @ Sun May 26 said:


> Love Geddy Lee and Pert, but always wished someone else would have sang.
> But his voice was a take back to Ethel Mermman which inspired many Glamour Rock LA groups, aka Axel Pose.....


Hah!

Love it !
What a concept. :mrgreen: 

k


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## dgburns (May 27, 2013)

also check out "Closer to the Heart"

a little old,but def has a melody.

great band,most drummers into Rush can quote EVERY drum part fom "moving pictures"like it was a written in stone. :mrgreen:


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## Studio E (May 27, 2013)

What dogburns said. Their catalog is huge and there is much to go through, but...their is a ton of great melodic material there. It's just a matter of finding the stuff you like.


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## Jimbo 88 (May 27, 2013)

Rush, yes i have lots of respect for their abilities, but Geddy Lee's voice is hard for me to listen to.

Progressive rock, done well... even tho the vocals sound sooo whinny.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 27, 2013)

OK, so I listen to some of this stuff and I understand better the appeal now. My conclusions are:

1. They are motif driven and do not write "hooks" the way Led Zeppelin did, or even some of the other prog rock bands. That is probably why in the US they only had 1 song that hit the top 40, "New World Man". But I doubt that they cared about that.

2. Geddy's voice is like Neil Young's in that you either probably really like it or really do not. 

3. Great musicians who clearly make music they love. It is just not music that I love, but I do not hate it either.

So I simply put them on the list of bands who inspire passionate like/dislike beyond what I think their merits or flaws are. i could include the Grateful Dead, Journey, Asia, and ELP on that list. I can listen to all of them but find it hard to understand the degree of love/hate they inspire.

Kudos to them for their great musicianship and kudos to their fans who do not require hooks the way I do, but the Rock & Roll Hall ofFame? Not if it were up to me.

But because of what the Canadians did for the US hostages in the Argo incident, I will say no more


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## cc64 (May 27, 2013)

Not a huge fan but loved the documentary.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1545103/

Claude


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## Synesthesia (May 27, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Mon May 27 said:


> the Rock & Roll Hall ofFame? Not if it were up to me.



erm... over 40 million albums sold worldwide.

I think whatever you think about their music they qualify. :D


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## EastWest Lurker (May 27, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Mon May 27 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Mon May 27 said:
> 
> 
> > the Rock & Roll Hall ofFame? Not if it were up to me.
> ...



Really? That many? OK, then yes.


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## dpasdernick (May 27, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun May 26 said:


> Once again, there is no denying their talent and skills. I just don't get what inspires the passionate devotion to the music itself.
> 
> But I guess I am just too melody-centric to appreciate it on an emotional level, even though I admire it on an intellectual level.



Jay,

I grew up in Canada where there was some sort of law that the radio stations had to play a significant amount of Canadian artists. Loverboy, Brian Adams, BTO, Red Rider, aAx Webster (amazing band), and Rush all crammed down our throats on a daily basis. I was never into Rush and actually couldn't stand them for a while for the reasons you have stated. The "let's play the trickiest thing we can" does not resonate with me at all. I loved Watcher of the Skies by Genesis so I wasn't just a sucker for pure pop and did enjoy bands like Yes as well.

But recently I saw a documentary on Rush and listened to their story. These guys have paid their dues and, like them or not, have one of the most loyal fan bases around. They're still filling arenas after 30 years and have remained pretty humble guys. Plus they can play like motherf*ckers and in a world of Lady Googoo and Madonna using backing tracks and lip syncing I'd take Rush any day of the week. Respect the riff... 

Darren

PS And Tom Sawyer is a pretty cool song.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 27, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Mon May 27 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Mon May 27 said:
> 
> 
> > the Rock & Roll Hall ofFame? Not if it were up to me.
> ...



Really? That many? OK, then yes.


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## choc0thrax (May 27, 2013)

dpasdernick @ Mon May 27 said:


> But recently I saw a documentary on Rush and listened to their story. These guys have paid their dues and, like them or not, have one of the most loyal fan bases around. They're still filling arenas after 30 years and have remained pretty humble guys. Plus they can play like motherf*ckers and in a world of Lady Googoo and Madonna using backing tracks and lip syncing I'd take Rush any day of the week. Respect the riff...



The documentary is really good. Peart's been through a lot. They have an amazing ability to hang onto their fans. I've hung out with Geddy a bunch and he is totally like the most humble and nicest person around. Incredibly smart too. Not everything they do is my cup of tea but over time I found some new tracks I like and definitely respect their skill.


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## NYC Composer (May 27, 2013)

Can't say I love their stuff, but I respect the heck out of the intricacy and the musicianship is awesome.

Once upon a time, the chopsmeister musician ruled. these days, not so much. I liken some of the great prog solos to bebop-the scales and the styles are different, but the inventiveness is comparable.

I will say I thought their Rock and Roll Hall of Fame performance was pretty great from a technical point of view. I loved seeing Heart up there too-I thought Anne Wilson sounded fab....and THOSE songs had great hooks.I loved their acceptance speeches too-no "oh thank you for letting us girls into your club" crap-instead, strong women making strong statements.


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## dgburns (May 28, 2013)

thinking about it some more,I've discovered that many,actually most of their top songs all have MAJOR scale melodies,especially in the vocal lines by Geddy.Strange that is for such a "heavy" rock band....

and thinking about it some more,Tom Sawyer is def THE main Rush song if you are not a hard core fan.


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## SergeD (May 28, 2013)

Synesthesia @ Sat May 25 said:


> Come on!!!




That's it. Better than the 10,000 hours principle, the one great hit principle.

Something really good, like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2B6SjMh_w
or that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIsbD0l_bEg

How many great hits has Nirvana ?


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## dpasdernick (May 31, 2013)

Alex Lifeson's "Blah, Blah, Blah" speech at the R&R Hall of Fame Awards was absolutely priceless....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q421kNZ83BI


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## NYC Composer (May 31, 2013)

SergeD @ Tue May 28 said:


> Synesthesia @ Sat May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > Come on!!!
> ...




I had to think about this for a bit. i'm a big Nirvana fan.

I think the difference is that Nirvana was transformational. I'm not sure Rush was.


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## EastWest Lurker (May 31, 2013)

Ah, Nirvana, music to open your wrists by.


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## NYC Composer (May 31, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Jun 01 said:


> Ah, Nirvana, music to open your wrists by.



"Ju...lia...Ju....lia....."

"Born under a Bad "Sign..."

"the Thill is Gone..."

"i am a Rock...I am an Is...land..."

"down on this....killing floor.."

Umm.


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## SergeD (Jun 2, 2013)

Smells Like Teen Spirit

Pure jewel


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