# Protecting your music



## cadalac (Apr 2, 2013)

Hi everyone. I have a question I would like to ask the experienced composers in the forum:

Is there any precautions you take to protect the ownership of your music? In this field we constantly have to create demos and proposals to clients and probably try to recycle unused ideas. I'm wondering if composers have a simple way to legally protect their authorship.

Maybe it's unlikely anything would ever happen, but it seems to me it would be a good precaution, like car insurance.


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## Christof (Apr 3, 2013)

I am not very experienced in terms of business because I am rather new in this job, but I always protect my demos/pieces with an acoustic watermark, a simple beep every 10 seconds.
Once the track is approved and ready to sell/use I remove the beep.
But anyway there is no 100% secured solution, I even found one of my pieces in a youtube clip, somebody found a way to grab it from my sound cloud, I even disabled downloads.Other tracks of mine are for sale on a website, don't know who put them up, but I guess nobody will buy them


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## re-peat (Apr 3, 2013)

I don't care about any of that.
My music is already protected enough by the simple fact that I wrote it.

_


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## Ciaran Birch (Apr 3, 2013)

Was actually thinking about this one myself, so thanks for posting. 

I have an audio watermark (similar to music libraries) every 10 secs as well.

My big concern is contracts at the beginning of a project. I studied tax in college so I was able to draft up a licence agreement, and had a few law friends look over it. 

But I know many composers and (and generally media production professionals) who don't even consider this option when it comes to their work. 

Does anyone else do this at the beginning of a project? Send over a contract to get the other party to agree to the licensing of your work, agreement of fee, etc?


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## Daryl (Apr 3, 2013)

I don't really understand. Are you saying that you start a project without agreeing terms?

D


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## RiffWraith (Apr 3, 2013)

Hold on a sec. Am I misunderstanding, or do you guys actually send yet unapproved tracks to clients with audio beeps in them? If the answer is yes then the next question is this: the client actually responds back to you???


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## Ciaran Birch (Apr 3, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> Hold on a sec. Am I misunderstanding, or do you guys actually send yet unapproved tracks to clients with audio beeps in them? If the answer is yes then the next question is this: the client actually responds back to you???



Yeh I would do this for corporate work. I've only been composing music for a year, I've mainly only worked for corporate tracks and ads. I've started work recently on two short films, my first proper film work but it's for free to add to my portfolio. It was all signed off at the start that my work is owned by me, so when tracks are being sent over to be reviewed, there's no need for watermarking. I'm guessing there's something wrong with that practice RiffWraith? 

The only reason I would do it is that I might get a call to do a corporate track due in a few days. So I would try draft up 3-4 demos of different styles to give the client and see which style they preferred. Watermarking seemed the best practice to make sure everything was above board until they decided on one style, therefore my other demos were safe and weren't reusable by the client without my knowledge.

Would appreciate any help if this is majorly wrong, as it'll only help for the future.


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## Waywyn (Apr 3, 2013)

re-peat @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> I don't care about any of that.
> My music is already protected enough by the simple fact that I wrote it.
> 
> _



Agreeing with Piet here.
I too don't care about it ... and in case IF someone would have missused my music it would be revealed anyway, sooner or later!

Besides that I would find it pretty annoying to send out demos with beeps every ten seconds in it. I mean everyone as one prefers, but to me it would be as sending a good portion of misstrust along with my first sketch.


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## Ciaran Birch (Apr 3, 2013)

re-peat @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> Agreeing with Piet here.
> I too don't care about it ... and in case IF someone would have missused my music it would be revealed anyway, sooner or later!
> 
> Besides that I would find it pretty annoying to send out demos with beeps every ten seconds in it. I mean everyone as one prefers, but to me it would be as sending a good portion of misstrust along with my first sketch.



Hey Alex,

I completely understand what you're saying about it coming across like it being a breach of trust between yourself and the client. I'd definitely prefer not to go the "bleep" 10 secs route if possible.  So you just sort everything out beforehand with regard to fee, ownership, etc. with the client, sign that off, and trust they won't misuse your tracks while the demo process is going on?

Thanks for the help,

Ciaran


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## Greg (Apr 3, 2013)

Sending watermarked files to clients is ridiculous imo. I've only been ripped off by a client once, and the guy was clearly an idiot and someone I'd rather never do business with again.

Treat your clients with respect and trust. Send them hi-res files even before payment is made. Especially if they're a notable agency. The bad apples that would steal your music and risk the lawsuit are not worth doing business with anyways!


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## RiffWraith (Apr 3, 2013)

Greg @ Thu Apr 04 said:


> Sending watermarked files to clients is ridiculous imo.



Unless the wmark is embedded in the data, as opposed to being an audio wmark, I agree. It's unprofessional, and most clients a) dont want to hear their potential music with beeps, and b) usually do not want to work with composers who are so anal retentive, they make their clients feel that they cant be trusted.

Cheers.


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## Ciaran Birch (Apr 3, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> Greg @ Thu Apr 04 said:
> 
> 
> > Sending watermarked files to clients is ridiculous imo.
> ...



I can see your point it can offend the client and may be OTT. You guys have a lot more experience and knowledge with all this, I'm just trying to see what the standard is for composers in the industry. Do you just copyright the tracks and that's that?


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## cadalac (Apr 3, 2013)

Ciaran Birch @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> I can see your point it can offend the client and may be OTT. You guys have a lot more experience and knowledge with all this, I'm just trying to see what the standard is for composers in the industry. Do you just copyright the tracks and that's that?



That's actually my original question. It's probably inevitable that someone uses your music without permission at some point. I would be fine sending my work without a watermarking but I would like to have a simple way to prove my authorship. Copyrighting everything seems too time consuming and expensive for a media composer. Is there simply no other way?


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## Ciaran Birch (Apr 3, 2013)

cadalac @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> Ciaran Birch @ Wed Apr 03 said:
> 
> 
> > I can see your point it can offend the client and may be OTT. You guys have a lot more experience and knowledge with all this, I'm just trying to see what the standard is for composers in the industry. Do you just copyright the tracks and that's that?
> ...



No you should definitely copyright everything you have. That's your only defence should somebody do anything to steal your music or misuse it in some way. The small expense in copyrighting your music could end up a big expense if you can't properly prove you're the one who owns it.


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## cadalac (Apr 3, 2013)

...Just a quick observation, but it seems that the Europeans here are more for the watermark and the North Americans against. Maybe it just depends on which side of the ocean you work on... :wink:


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## Christof (Apr 3, 2013)

Actually I only add watermarks when I don't really trust a client, and that doesn't happen too often!


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## Daryl (Apr 3, 2013)

cadalac @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> ...Just a quick observation, but it seems that the Europeans here are more for the watermark and the North Americans against. Maybe it just depends on which side of the ocean you work on... :wink:


I have never watermarked anything. If I don't trust a client (in spite of the agreement that we would have before I submit anything) I wouldn't work with them.

I always give new clients the benefit of the doubt once, but if they let me down, I never work with them again. Life is too short to be watching over my shoulder every second of my working life.

D


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## Ciaran Birch (Apr 4, 2013)

Daryl @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> cadalac @ Wed Apr 03 said:
> 
> 
> > ...Just a quick observation, but it seems that the Europeans here are more for the watermark and the North Americans against. Maybe it just depends on which side of the ocean you work on... :wink:
> ...



I think that's a good way of dong things Daryl, and I'm glad it's working for you. I agree the watermarking scenario could seem a little insulting to clients. Therefore is the consensus that people just copyright their work and leave it at that?

Cheers,

Ciaran


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## Christof (Apr 4, 2013)

Sorry but I can't understand why people here are against audio watermarks, it is the only solution, believe me, let me show you how I handle this usually, and I never had a client who complained about it!!!

http://www.music4motion.org/watermarked%20cue.mp3

-Christof


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## Daryl (Apr 4, 2013)

Christof @ Thu Apr 04 said:


> Sorry but I can't understand why people here are against audio watermarks, it is the only solution, believe me, let me show you how I handle this usually, and I never had a client who complained about it!!!
> 
> http://www.music4motion.org/watermarked%20cue.mp3
> 
> -Christof


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Fantastic.

D


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## mosso (Apr 4, 2013)

Christof @ 4/4/2013 said:


> Sorry but I can't understand why people here are against audio watermarks, it is the only solution, believe me, let me show you how I handle this usually, and I never had a client who complained about it!!!
> 
> http://www.music4motion.org/watermarked%20cue.mp3
> 
> -Christof



Haha that's brilliant. Can't hear the watermarking though. :wink:


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## Christof (Apr 4, 2013)

Damn it, no one takes me serious here, I quit!


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## Ciaran Birch (Apr 4, 2013)

Christof @ Thu Apr 04 said:


> Sorry but I can't understand why people here are against audio watermarks, it is the only solution, believe me, let me show you how I handle this usually, and I never had a client who complained about it!!!
> 
> http://www.music4motion.org/watermarked%20cue.mp3
> 
> -Christof



Couldn't stop laughing! :D Pure genius.


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## Guy Bacos (Apr 4, 2013)

Christof @ Thu Apr 04 said:


> Sorry but I can't understand why people here are against audio watermarks, it is the only solution, believe me, let me show you how I handle this usually, and I never had a client who complained about it!!!
> 
> http://www.music4motion.org/watermarked%20cue.mp3
> 
> -Christof



Excellent sound effects! Is it possible to get that annoying music out of the way?


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