# Mac vs Pc 2013



## germancomponist (Dec 6, 2013)

Do you still feel that you're a more professional when using an Apple-Mac?

o/~ o=< o-[][]-o


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## reddognoyz (Dec 6, 2013)

I've had PC's as slaves and was fine with them when they were working. I am a little more comfortable with Macs, but I could go PC if I had to.


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## Greg (Dec 6, 2013)

Hackintosh > all


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## AC986 (Dec 6, 2013)

germancomponist @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> Do you still feel that you're a more professional when using an Apple-Mac?
> 
> o/~ o=< o-[][]-o



Sorry to go on about this, but in 10 days time the new MacPro is released and these people are STILL not saying anything about the audio interface fiasco. It's almost like it never existed. It's still going to be Mavericks OS, USB 3 and TB connectivity, which quite frankly is at the moment for music people is a pile of fucking shit. I have sent 2 iMacs back to Apple so far and will in no circumstances buy a Mac computer until they definitively state the issues have been solved.

What I want to ask is, has anyone heard anything more on the audio problem. It's a really big issue when you can't get any viable audio out of your system obviously. There are ton of people going on about it in different forums.

So no is the answer to Gunthers question at the moment.


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## rJames (Dec 6, 2013)

Did someone once say that they felt more professional because they used a Mac? More professional than if they used a PC or more professional than composers using a PC?


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## chimuelo (Dec 6, 2013)

I think MacPro's are for the hard core Apple guys. Everyone is aware that for less money one can build a better machine, and surely have audio as core feature of the design.

Apple seems more innovative with it's laptops and handheld devices.
Thier MacBook is really a nice audio solution. My son has had nothing but a great success, and of course it's Kontakt only, but the Samsung NGFF M.2 SSD beats my SATA III SSDs by 300MBps in reads, and 60k in Random IOps.

Those machines are too big, too pricey, and too overated by the famous folks.
But Logic laptops w/ SSDs and 16GBs of RAM are pretty impressive.
Now if PLAY and VSL would join into this century with compressed audio, I see towers going bye-bye....

As long as PLAY and VSL templates need 128GBs and 880+MBps/120k IOps, there'll be a need for such Dinosaurs.... o=?


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## germancomponist (Dec 6, 2013)

rJames @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> Did someone once say that they felt more professional because they used a Mac? More professional than if they used a PC or more professional than composers using a PC?



Yes...... , a long story..... . So now grant my smile...... .


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## KingIdiot (Dec 6, 2013)

for fucks sake.


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## Theseus (Dec 6, 2013)

Allow me to expend on KingIdiot's response: Coffee vs tea? 

We should get a rant section here, like the one on Gearslutz where the everlasting threads addressing the same paramount question usually end up, that would come handy...

Let's cut to the point directly: yes Gunther, PC is the best, and you're the smartest because you use a PC, like every serious composer or musician should, and if they don't, well at least you can sympathize condescendingly with them, right?

Can we close the thread now? 

Ps: I heard Hendrik and Sascha form Orchestral Tools use Macs... It all come together, doesn't it?!? (joke inside)


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## charlieclouser (Dec 6, 2013)

(note: this is not my machine room)


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## Greg (Dec 6, 2013)

charlieclouser @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> (note: this is not my machine room)



What is that black abomination on the 2nd to last rack? A WINDOWS computer??! GAG >8o


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## KingIdiot (Dec 6, 2013)

nice house heater, kind of inefficient though.


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## givemenoughrope (Dec 6, 2013)

Trevor Morris?

I'm sure this works for him but if it were me I'd dump all but two Macs and put it towards a proper espresso machine. I hope that place is climate controlled.

For me, I still feel most comfortable with Cubase on a Mac. It's convenient especially if I get an itch to do something crazy and dip into Logic or Ableton (I used to have a sort of granular sampler that someone set up as an environment in Logic that sounded great and was really musical), bounce and jump back into Cubase. OS is easier for dealing with video, files, uploading, etc.

On the sample farm side, I don't know how I ever did much without the PCs.


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## Nachivnik (Dec 6, 2013)

givemenoughrope @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> Trevor Morris?
> 
> I'm sure this works for him but if it were me I'd dump all but two Macs and put it towards a proper espresso machine. I hope that place is climate controlled.



In the future, that machine room will look like a giant's cupboard with the new Mac Pro's. An espresso machine would be perfect -- well, except for potential damage to the Mac Pro's. 

Until that day, never underestimate the power of racks of metal boxes to impress. I wish I would have bought my friend's burned out G5 just to put it in a rack with some faux lighting inside.

Helping musicians look or feel more pro does not seem to be high on the list of priorities of these companies trying to sell their ecosystems to us. They're more worried about Amazon and Google, and each others' ecosystems.


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## givemenoughrope (Dec 6, 2013)

Ha, I'd be more bummed about the potential damage to the espresso machine. At first...

I love metal boxes (and the album Metal Box) but I almost wish all my gear was housed on reclaimed wood. It looks cool on both sides on the synths anyway..


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## wanmingyan (Dec 6, 2013)

Apple wants us to use Thunderbolt 2 Storage Solutions and Thunderbolt Audio Interfaces....

-WMY


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## muziksculp (Dec 6, 2013)

germancomponist @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> Do you still feel that you're a more professional when using an Apple-Mac?
> 
> o/~ o=< o-[][]-o



You might post this again in 2014 :lol:


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## wtreeCT (Dec 7, 2013)

Well, I'll still take my old-fashioned grey "dinosaurs" running 10.6.8 any day [I have 8 of them in there now - wait, oops, actually maybe 10...]. Every day I can walk in, sit down, and go straight to work. Sure, once in a while one of them gets grumpy and acts up - but I didn't have to build 'em and troubleshoot their configuration from scratch, and the audio cards all work perfectly etc. etc. The only bummer is I can't run my copy of the new REV library because it requires K5.3, which would require a bump out of joyously stable SL-land... but a small price to pay for a [relatively] blissful moment in the tech-hell of being a composer. Of course, as I say this all of my machines are probably melting down simultaneously and I'll wake up tomorrow to find my machine room looking like the inside of that droid transport in the first Star Wars movie... 

And yes, this room does need to be climate-controlled. :D 

-CT-


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## Nachivnik (Dec 7, 2013)

wtreeCT @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> Well, I'll still take my old-fashioned grey "dinosaurs" running 10.6.8 any day [I have 8 of them in there now - wait, oops, actually maybe 10...].



Awesome room! The old-fashioned "dinosaurs" impress in a way that -- say, four tablets -- do not. They are the Marshall Stack of the modern era.


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## benmrx (Dec 7, 2013)

I always had a console in my studio. First Soundcraft, then Neotek. Rarely used either for more than impressing clients. These machine rooms are pretty nice IMO!!


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## benmrx (Dec 7, 2013)

Theseus @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> Ps: I heard Hendrik and Sascha form Orchestral Tools use Macs... It all come together, doesn't it?!? (joke inside)



o[]) :arrow: :roll:


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 7, 2013)

Gunther, anyone who doesn't use Macs is amateur.

But it's not "still," it just started being the case this week.


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## germancomponist (Dec 7, 2013)

adriancook @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> Sorry to go on about this, but in 10 days time the new MacPro is released and these people are STILL not saying anything about the audio interface fiasco. It's almost like it never existed. It's still going to be Mavericks OS, USB 3 and TB connectivity, which quite frankly is at the moment for music people is a pile of [email protected]#king [email protected]#t. I have sent 2 iMacs back to Apple so far and will in no circumstances buy a Mac computer until they definitively state the issues have been solved.
> 
> What I want to ask is, has anyone heard anything more on the audio problem. It's a really big issue when you can't get any viable audio out of your system obviously. There are ton of people going on about it in different forums.
> 
> So no is the answer to Gunthers question at the moment.



The reason why I did this thread.


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## AC986 (Dec 7, 2013)

Gunther you are a mischievous fellow!

All anyone has to do is go onto the iMac audio interface serious issue on the Gearslutz Forum and read it. And also on the Apple support forum for the same thing. No one really can say whether it's just down to one thing. But it looks like the Fusion Drive. But no one knows definitely.

When they get it right sometime next year I will try again. The MacPro may be different but I wouldn't take a chance on it at the moment.


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## germancomponist (Dec 7, 2013)

adriancook @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> Gunther you are a mischievous fellow!
> 
> All anyone has to do is go onto the iMac audio interface serious issue on the Gearslutz Forum and read it. And also on the Apple support forum for the same thing. No one really can say whether it's just down to one thing. But it looks like the Fusion Drive. But no one knows definitely.
> 
> When they get it right sometime next year I will try again. The MacPro may be different but I wouldn't take a chance on it at the moment.



He he, give me my fun. Irony is one of my passions.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 7, 2013)

You were too subtle, Gunther.

I hadn't heard about those issues - probably because I'm no longer interested in upgrading computers every other week, also because I've never been on Gearslutz - and I assume most other people haven't either.


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## AC986 (Dec 7, 2013)

I went on the Gearslutz forum because someone here brought up the thread there for me to read. Also the Apple one. Many people have returned iMacs. I personally have had no return from Apogee at all since asking them about the issue.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 7, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> You were too subtle, Gunther.
> 
> I hadn't heard about those issues - probably because I'm no longer interested in upgrading computers every other week, also because I've never been on Gearslutz - and I assume most other people haven't either.



You're not interested in upgrading them every decade


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## Greg (Dec 7, 2013)

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-...-2-quad-dsp-thunderbolt-i-o-option-bay?pfm=sp

Any thunderbolt interfaces out yet as an alternative to this? Bit pricey..


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## NYC Composer (Dec 7, 2013)

KingIdiot @ Fri Dec 06 said:


> for fucks sake.



+1


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 7, 2013)

Answering your Boston accent-tinged kidding seriously, Jay, I figured out recently that I've bought about 25 Macs.

That makes me pretty pathetic!

And now that this has almost dried up for desktop machines, it's starting with iPads - with a vengeance. The DirecTV software I was using all the time suddenly stopped working on my original iPad - which I paid $500 for in the Apple Store 23 months ago.

But I'm not throwing it away, because Blowfinger, that magnificent software that turns your iPad into a wonderful wind and breath controller (while still running synths in the background), supports the original iPad.

So there.


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## playz123 (Dec 7, 2013)

The new Mac Pro...less for way more money. What about users who still need to use PCIe cards? Ever check out the price of external card units? The there's the DVD drive that is needed as well. Then there's a requirement for external SSDs and bays for them. And what about more RAM (certainly don't buy it from Apple)? I added it all up one day and figured that a new $3000 US Mac Pro would end up costing me close to $7000 CAN by the time I bought all the extra bits you don't get with the computer itself. So my 'grey ghost' will just have to keep me going for awhile longer, and certainly until some of the problems are resolved. If it ain't broke....


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## chimuelo (Dec 7, 2013)

I went on Gearslutz because I thought it might be a bunch of chicks that dug guys with gear, the name is misleading though.
It's just a bunch of dudes who love guys who have gear.


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## jleckie (Dec 7, 2013)

I'm not understanding this 'fun' the German guy speaks of?


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## rgames (Dec 7, 2013)

Regarding audio performance: I just built a 4930k / Win 8.1 system and it doesn't perform as well as the i7-920 / Win 7 it replaced (in terms of handling a bunch of VE Pro w/ VSL, Kontakt, PLAY). It's close, but slightly worse, and near as I can tell it's mainly because of the OS. Granted, the i7-920 / Win7 had years of hardware/driver updates to squeeze every last bit of performance out of it, but still, you'd think a brand new, top-of-the-line system could at least perform as well as one that's five years old. It can't.

So Apple is not alone in abandoning pro audio users. Microsoft is abandoning us, as well. The focus is mobile, not desktops. Soon we'll all be on Linux because that's the only OS that still has a solid backing in the high-performance desktop world.

rgames


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 7, 2013)

rgames @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> Regarding audio performance: I just built a 4930k / Win 8.1 system and it doesn't perform as well as the i7-920 / Win 7 it replaced (in terms of handling a bunch of VE Pro w/ VSL, Kontakt, PLAY). It's close, but slightly worse, and near as I can tell it's mainly because of the OS. Granted, the i7-920 / Win7 had years of hardware/driver updates to squeeze every last bit of performance out of it, but still, you'd think a brand new, top-of-the-line system could at least perform as well as one that's five years old. It can't.
> 
> So Apple is not alone in abandoning pro audio users. Microsoft is abandoning us, as well. The focus is mobile, not desktops. Soon we'll all be on Linux because that's the only OS that still has a solid backing in the high-performance desktop world.
> 
> rgames



Can't you install Win 7 and see if it makes a difference?


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## IFM (Dec 7, 2013)

No matter what for me I love macs/OSX and loath windows but that doesn't stop me from running both in the studio. For now I use a mini as a workstation with usb3 drives. 

For my next machine I am seriously think of just building a hackintosh. 
Chris


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 7, 2013)

Rgames wrote:



> The focus is mobile, not desktops



Because of the reason I said: companies and everyone except Jay realizes the tail-chasing game of replacing desktops every two years is over. So they're doing it with iPads now!

(But I still say 23 months for an iPad to become obsolete is insane.)


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## rgames (Dec 7, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> Can't you install Win 7 and see if it makes a difference?


I did. It does.

Again, it's not a huge difference and it's not a practical concern, but Win 8.1 does give me a few clicks and pops that I don't get on Win 7. And I do expect the performance to improve as the drivers mature under the new OS.

Win 8.1 performs a little worse than Win 7 and the new machine performs a little worse than the old machine under the same OS (from the standpoint of real-time performance and pops/clicks - it is, of course, a pretty big leap in processor performance).

rgames


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## Jdiggity1 (Dec 7, 2013)

Dragonwind @ Sun 08 Dec said:


> For my next machine I am seriously think of just building a hackintosh.



Do it.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 7, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> Rgames wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not every two, but every 4-5 is pretty much necessary to keep up.


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## mk282 (Dec 8, 2013)

Apple is losing its touch regarding desktops. IMHO Mac Pro is an expensive garbage can looking non-expandable (internally) piece of crap.

For the same amount of cash you can make a W7 PC that will wipe the floor with the new Mac Pro. Nuff said.


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## Daryl (Dec 8, 2013)

I know that the original question was a joke, but in all honesty I feel most professional when I'm standing in front of an orchestra conducting my music. Not when I'm sitting in front of a computer monitor. :wink: 

However, as we seem to be getting into the whole OSX/Windows nonsense, my take is that it really doesn't matter which OS for a DAW, unless you have picked a DAW that only works on one platform. In the end I could easily work in OSX, because once the program is loaded, it makes no difference. The reason I work in Windows is superior performance. That's it.

D


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## AC986 (Dec 8, 2013)

chimuelo @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> I went on Gearslutz because I thought it might be a bunch of chicks that dug guys with gear



Alright. I partly admit to that too but most of what I read was about people taking their iMacs back for a refund. Same on Apple Support. And all the peripherals like external CD/DVD drives, leads and so forth.


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## Greg (Dec 8, 2013)

Focusrite confirmed this guy will work on their sapphire i/o range:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD464 ... re-adapter

I'd imagine it should work with all firewire interfaces no? Cheaper alternative to buying something with built in thunderbolt like the Apollo or Apogee.


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## rJames (Dec 8, 2013)

I contacted Metric Halo support regarding my ancient ULN2 and he said to just use an Apple Thunderbolt to firewire adapter cable.

"We recommend using the Apple thunderbolt to firewire 800 adapter. Combined with a firewire 800 to 400 cable, it is a robust, low cost and simple way to connect our existing firewire devices to thunderbolt ports. The Thunderbolt 2 part is not expected to act any different with regard to mounting the MIO and working on the new Macs."


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## chimuelo (Dec 8, 2013)

adriancook @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> chimuelo @ Sat Dec 07 said:
> 
> 
> > I went on Gearslutz because I thought it might be a bunch of chicks that dug guys with gear
> ...



We see Planned obsolescence has backfired on Intel motherboards, their sales dropped 45% after outsourcing to Asus.
OCZ went bancrupt and just did get their assets purchased by Toshiba.
Apple had better be careful, and FWIW I always buy insurance. 
Good thing as my sons iPhone 4 took a dump a week after the warranty expired, his little QWERTY on the MacBook after 5 months went out, but on both products we were insured.
Outsourcing might be good for the ROI until you realize distributors will no longer cover shipping back to Taiwan and China for returned goods.
It's exactly what killed OCZ.
QControl must be verifiable, and if it isn't, well these forums can really have an effect if enough folks rasie a little Cain.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 8, 2013)

> ompanies and everyone except Jay realizes the tail-chasing game of replacing desktops every two years is over. So they're doing it with iPads now!
> 
> (But I still say 23 months for an iPad to become obsolete is insane.)
> 
> ...



Keep up with the Joneses?

I see no sign of my 5-year-old 8-core not keeping up. Sure they'll break it with an OS update at some point, but that'll be a conscious choice, not a necessity.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 8, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> > ompanies and everyone except Jay realizes the tail-chasing game of replacing desktops every two years is over. So they're doing it with iPads now!
> >
> > (But I still say 23 months for an iPad to become obsolete is insane.)
> >
> ...



If you are happy, I am happy for you.


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## Daryl (Dec 9, 2013)

In the end it comes down to convenience and the way one likes to work. For me there are various things that dictate what I use:

I have no intention of using slave computers, so this makes certain computers a non starter.

I have good keyboard skills and don't like a system that has high latency.

I like to use a lot of Sample Modeling instruments, so again that limits the age of the computer I can use.

I have identical set-ups in both studios, so with a one computer set-up it is easier to keep them in sync.

D


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## NYC Composer (Dec 9, 2013)

Daryl @ Mon Dec 09 said:


> In the end it comes down to convenience and the way one likes to work. For me there are various things that dictate what I use:
> 
> I have no intention of using slave computers, so this makes certain computers a non starter.
> 
> ...



Perfectly sensible and I went single box until the inexpensive refurb Mac Mini 4 core i7 came out and seduced me by whispering "Use VEP! Stop having to up your latency! You can use all of SM without freezing tracks! How out some more Omni tracks???" And i just caved. (sigh)


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## resonate (Dec 12, 2013)

> The only bummer is I can't run my copy of the new REV library because it requires K5.3, which would require a bump out of joyously stable SL-land...



actually, i think you can install K5.3 on SL with Pacifist......


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