# How to EQ your master out, but not inside your DAW?



## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

Hello

I am wanting to EQ my main master out on my soundcard, but I'm sure it won't allow me to do this. I have an M-Audio Profire 610. Is there some sort of software that I can get to do this? Right now I am EQing my master out in my DAW, but for general listening, I cannot always drop tracks inside my DAW to listen to because it get's quite annoying, especially when listening online.

Reason I am doing this is because I want to EQ a bit of my room out. Now before you guys tell me that it's not a good idea, well... I know. I have been on Gearslutz and consulting with some professional acoustic people. I have treated my room the best I can, but since it's so small, there is only so much I can do. The reason I want to EQ my room out is because it's around the 220 to 300Hz area that is bothering me. This area is horrible because it's the masking muddy area and it's pretty much doing exactly that to my listening, fatiguing me like crazy and also masking all the things I want to hear.

Like I said, I am EQing my master out in my DAW now. I referenced to my Room EQ Wizard results, so that I could cut those frequencies without doing it blindly. I also referenced a track I know so well, that it sounds great since I did the cut. However, it would be great if I didn't have to use my DAW for general listening. I'd love to just EQ my main master out (PC out) so that it's all set up and ready to go, no matter if I'm listening in a DAW, ect, ect.

Any such thing?


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## OLB (Oct 9, 2012)

I heard good things from IK Multimedia ARC. Haven't used it myself but have a look at it.

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc/


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## germancomponist (Oct 9, 2012)

Are you on Mac?

On the windows media player there is an eq plugin. Not the best, but.... .


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## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

Hey guys. 

OLB - I'll chack that out.

Germancomponist - It's not just windows media player that I want, it's everything


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## Daryl (Oct 9, 2012)

I would have two Group channels. One with the room EQ and one without. Route everything to both channels, but only route the EQ one out to your soundcard. Then when you want to do a mixdown, do it from the non-EQ channel, rather than the soundcard outputs.

This means that you will always listen through your room EQ channel, but mixdown will ignore that.

Edit: Sorry, I just saw that you don't want to do this. Only other suggestion I have is to use a hardware EQ, route your audio to this and then only listen to the return.

D


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## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

Daryl @ Tue Oct 09 said:


> I would have two Group channels. One with the room EQ and one without. Route everything to both channels, but only route the EQ one out to your soundcard. Then when you want to do a mixdown, do it from the non-EQ channel, rather than the soundcard outputs.
> 
> This means that you will always listen through your room EQ channel, but mixdown will ignore that.
> 
> ...




Hello

Thanks. The ARC option is actually kind of cool. I mean, it's really a last resort thing. Expensive though.

Seems like Hardware Parametrics are alot!

Thanks!


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## Cruciform (Oct 9, 2012)

Dan-Jay @ Tue Oct 09 said:


> Is there such thing as a hardware parametric EQ?



Yeh, but if you thought ARC was expensive.... :o http://www.sweetwater.com/c842--Parametric_EQ/pn1


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## Ganvai (Oct 9, 2012)

OLB @ 9th October 2012 said:


> I heard good things from IK Multimedia ARC. Haven't used it myself but have a look at it.
> 
> http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc/



Can't recommend that. 

I tried it once in my last flat cause there was not enough space for a room just for music. It was quite nice while listening, but the end-result after mixing always have been realy bad. 

I visited my mastering-engineer with some tracks I made with the ARC for making a new cd ready and he was shocked about the mixing quality... and I too when I listened to the tracks in a good room. So I returned home and mixed without ARC... it was much better!

Better to safe the money for good monitors and to know the characteristics of your monitors and your room. 

So at least, car-radio is the ultimate reference.


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## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

Ganvai @ Tue Oct 09 said:


> OLB @ 9th October 2012 said:
> 
> 
> > I heard good things from IK Multimedia ARC. Haven't used it myself but have a look at it.
> ...




hmm

I feared that. Perhaps more ARC users could come in here and tell me their experiences.

As for hardware EQs. I'd be stupid to spend 1000, just to EQ the room :D. Least that's what I think.


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## Dietz (Oct 9, 2012)

The only monitoring correction system I've heard up to now that doesn't do more harm than it is able to fix is the Trinnov Optimizer:

-> http://www.trinnov.com/ (... seems to be a slow site, though).


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## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

Dietz @ Wed Oct 10 said:


> The only monitoring correction system I've heard up to now that doesn't do more harm than it is able to fix is the Trinnov Optimizer:
> 
> -> http://www.trinnov.com/ (... seems to be a slow site, though).



Thanks. Though it seems the site is Forbidden.. Hmm.


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## gsilbers (Oct 9, 2012)

if u know what is bothering you then just get a hardware EQ. 
there are very good and inexpensive ones out there.


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## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

gsilbers @ Wed Oct 10 said:


> if u know what is bothering you then just get a hardware EQ.
> there are very good and inexpensive ones out there.



I have looked at some on Sweetwater, but would you have any recommendations for me? I just do not know much about hardware EQs, so I have no idea what I'm doing, just so you know.


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## mark812 (Oct 9, 2012)

Get this one, LOL.

Shelling out this amount of money on an EQ is absurd imo. But that's only me.  

If your room bothers you that much, why don't get hi-end comfortable cans, HD800s or something similar?


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## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

mark812 @ Wed Oct 10 said:


> Get this one, LOL.
> 
> Shelling out this amount of money on an EQ is absurd imo. But that's only me.
> 
> If your room bothers you that much, why don't get hi-end comfortable cans, HD800s or something similar?



Hi. He mentioned affordable, so I was just seeing if he had a good suggestion for a cheap price. I definitely am not going to spend a grand on a hardware EQ, that's for sure. Waste.

Cans could be good. I'll search around.

And yes, my room is really that bad. I actually wish I never studied acoustics and sound engineering, then I wouldn't even know difference.


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## wst3 (Oct 9, 2012)

IF you've reached the point where you want to apply equalization to your monitoring environment - and only you know if this is your best solution - then external hardware in front of the amplifier is your best bet.

There is a class of processors called Speaker Processors that might be what you want. They range from the Ashly 3.6SP (which I really like) to the Lake processors, which sound amazing, but would probably be overkill. Prices range from quite reasonable to insane, just like everything else<G>!

I would probably steer away from an analog equalizer because (I can't believe I'm saying this) the artifacts might cause more problems than a digital equalizer. And consider a graphic over a parametric.

Whatever you choose, keep in mind that this device becomes part of the monitoring system, which includes your converter, your amplifier, your loudspeakers, your room, and your ears.

You will need time to re-calibrate the system, especially your ears.

And even though you asked nicely, please keep in mind that you can not correct time domain problems with a frequency domain device<G>...


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## MacQ (Oct 9, 2012)

If you're trying to EQ your room, you don't want a boutique parametric EQ. That's dumb.

Something like this will suffice for that purpose: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/231S/

This is how live-sound guys do it, at any rate, and the principle is the same. I can't comment on the audio quality of this particular unit, but it's a 31-band graphic EQ you want.

~Stu


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## wst3 (Oct 9, 2012)

Stu is spot on about a graphic EQ, but be cautious... not all graphic equalizers are built the same, many of them have 'interesting' ways of combining the bands. You need an equalizer that does so in a well behaved manner. Rane and Ashly both make well behaved analog graphic equalizers, and so too do others I'm sure. I have a very old Yorkville 31 band equalizer that I like for basic room correction - although I use it in live settings (much larger rooms) not control rooms. Now, of course, I'm going to have to give it a spin<G>!


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## mark812 (Oct 9, 2012)

Dan-Jay @ Tue Oct 09 said:


> mark812 @ Wed Oct 10 said:
> 
> 
> > Get this one, LOL.
> ...



Check out Sennheiser HD600 / 650, Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro and AKG K701. And Sennheiser HD800 if you have the money.

Great article and comparison about mixing/mastering headphones: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan10/a ... hones.html

Since I bought DT 880s (love 'em), I work on headphones 80% of the time and check mixes on my monitors and laptop and car speakers too.


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## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

Hello guys

Thanks so much.

Graphic EQs makes sense and sounds like a good option, but I'm pretty sure that my ProFire 610 wouldn't have very standard converters, wouldn't you think?

I guess I'm worried that I'll lose even more quality than I have now.. Is that possible?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 9, 2012)

My hunch is that you'd be better off replacing your speakers with ones that don't sound muddy than spending money on some silly box.

The 200-300Hz mudrange is usually the problem area, by the way - it's not like you've been singled out!


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## Gusfmm (Oct 9, 2012)

This is the only Behringer piece of gear I've ever felt was worth the risk of trying, and can tell it's a nice piece of engineering, and quality it's been satisfactory (knock on wood) thus far.

I've heard many people use it for what you're indicating you're trying to accomplish:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DEQ2496.aspx (www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DEQ2496.aspx)

and they normally couple it with:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/ECM8000.aspx (www.behringer.com/EN/Products/ECM8000.aspx)

Again, I don't use the DEQ2496 for that purpose, but many "audiophiles" praise that solution for their room finetuning.


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## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Oct 10 said:


> My hunch is that you'd be better off replacing your speakers with ones that don't sound muddy than spending money on some silly box.
> 
> The 200-300Hz mudrange is usually the problem area, by the way - it's not like you've been singled out!



You think it's my speakers? Why?

I also have no idea what you mean in your last sentence...


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## gsilbers (Oct 9, 2012)

what speakers do you have?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 9, 2012)

Dan-Jay, I suspect your speakers because some speakers have problems in that area, especially small ones with ports. I don't know it's your speakers, I just think it's a good possibility.

The 200-300Hz range is affectionately called the mudrange because...it's where you find a muddy sound. That's also the area where a lot of dialog is, coincidentally, so you have to be careful when writing underscore in that range. Too bad, because rich melodies want to be in that range too.


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## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

Hello guys 

I have PMC DB1S-AIIs.

Surely it is not the speakers. These are more in the higher range of nearfields. I chose these specifically because we have them here at work and they sound great, as well as I wanted a speaker that I know I wouldn't change. This is basically the only pair of nearfields that I have liked. Also because they are indeed ported, I read that the more you pay, the better the ported performance, but that may not always be the case, but it makes atleast a little sense. My old pair were ADAM A5s.

My Adams had the same issue in that region, but a little less and I believe it was because the PMCs have a very wide dispertion, so they are exciting the room more. I should show you my room graph, because all that region is up there with the loudest peaks.


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## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

Here is my response


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 9, 2012)

It's hard to make heads of tails of that due to all the things that could vary, but for what it's worth I don't think it's because of the dispersion exciting the room. And you're probably right that it's not the speakers. You have good ones.

Do you have any bass trapping in your room? I hate to say it, but that's probably the way to solve the problem.

But before that, what happens if you move the speakers around a little - change their height, horizontal and vertical angle, distance from you and each other, and from corners? Does any of that make it better or worse?

Sometimes you can solve problems like this just by moving the speakers, depending on how bad the issues are.

I really doubt that EQ is going to help you, though. A little bit...well, I don't like the idea and don't use it, but okay. Trying to solve big problems like this, I don't think so.


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## Dan Mott (Oct 9, 2012)

Hello

I have pretty much put the speakers everywhere and this is the only place in the room that sounds the best, even though it's pretty aweful response still, but everywhere else is horrible on axis.

I have 10 custom built 6inch thick bass traps made of tontine acoustisorb 3, which is the same as owens corning 703. They are all 50mm stacked. That response I showed you, is with all that treatment and it's a little bit better without any treatment, which just made me go crazy. My bass traps introduced a bigger null at 80Hz for some reason. I have pretty much tried to position my bass traps in all different positions, but nothing happens really.

The EQing I am doing know helps for listening purposes, where I have EQed the tracks I know well and have removed that muddy area. I understand that it won't help, but that's why it's my last resort. Apparently my room is too small and I can only go so far. My room is 4m x 4m with a 2.4m high ceiling. My room is a cube.

So yeah. My room is a maze.


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