# X-keys



## ckiraly (May 15, 2018)

Does anyone have any experience with using X-keys to interface with a DAW?

http://xkeys.com/xkeys/xk80.php


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## chimuelo (May 15, 2018)

AutoCAD and Photoshop comparability is a good sign, but I have an ancient Shuttle Scrub Pad I used with Cubase SX.
It seemed to be dependent on the developer, which at that time was Steinberg.


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## ckiraly (May 15, 2018)

chimuelo said:


> AutoCAD and Photoshop comparability is a good sign, but I have an ancient Shuttle Scrub Pad I used with Cubase SX.
> It seemed to be dependent on the developer, which at that time was Steinberg.



it looks promising since it seems like you program it to do just about any key combo. Maybe I'll take the Nestea plunge and file a report once I had a chance to play around with it.


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## chimuelo (May 15, 2018)

Please do.
I automate everything on my Physis K4, don’t use a QWERTY.
But the stand looks nice as I don’t sit when performing or recording.
Lots of commands could be stored here and this with a wireless track ball would be enticing.


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## wcreed51 (May 15, 2018)

I've had one for a long time, and love it. I used it with Finale, and now with Overture.


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## samphony (May 15, 2018)

I was close to get one but went with the elgato streamdeck as it behaves a little like a EUCON controller does meaning you can assign profiles like logic, pro tools, Ableton live etc. If you switch to the corresponding app the streamdeck controller will follow and show your key commands. It doesn’t do macros though.


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## ckiraly (May 15, 2018)

wcreed51 said:


> I've had one for a long time, and love it. I used it with Finale, and now with Overture.



This is great news! Thanks!


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## JJP (May 15, 2018)

I have an old, discontinued http://xkeys.com/xkeys/assets/documents/Professional%20MWII/Professional%20MWII.html (X-Keys professional) that I use with Finale. Had it for over 10 years. Still works fine.


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## ckiraly (May 15, 2018)

JJP said:


> I have an old, discontinued http://xkeys.com/xkeys/assets/documents/Professional%20MWII/Professional%20MWII.html (X-Keys professional) that I use with Finale. Had it for over 10 years. Still works fine.



Thanks! I'm def gonna pick one up to play around with.


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## Manaberry (May 16, 2018)

There is Max Keyboard. I've never tried it yet, but you can program shortcuts, order custom keys (with custom design) and set specific back light color. For less than $150 you can get keys fully customized.

I've myself started creating custom key design based on my DAW in Illustrator.


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## ckiraly (May 16, 2018)

Manaberry said:


> There is Max Keyboard. I've never tried it yet, but you can program shortcuts, order custom keys (with custom design) and set specific back light color. For less than $150 you can get keys fully customized.
> 
> I've myself started creating custom key design based on my DAW in Illustrator.



Thanks! That is an interesting option too.


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## JJP (May 16, 2018)

Manaberry said:


> There is Max Keyboard. I've never tried it yet, but you can program shortcuts, order custom keys (with custom design) and set specific back light color. For less than $150 you can get keys fully customized.



I'd rather be able to change the keys. Both software and workflow change over time.


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## Manaberry (May 16, 2018)

That's something you can do; this is the purpose of the Cherry key switch. You just have to order a custom key and here you go.
It's a bit more expensive than just using a sticker of course.


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## JJP (May 16, 2018)

That's exactly my issue. With X-Keys, I can just print a new label and slip it under the cap on the key. With an LCD, the key label can be changed with software.

I don't like the idea of having to order a new key from a company if my workflow changes. That said, the Max Keyboard looks quite fancy. Others may not be bothered with fixed printing on the keys like I am. I'm one of those people who uses hardware until it literally falls apart, so I always wonder if the company will be around when I need a fix or change.


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## samphony (May 16, 2018)

The elgato streamdeck has lcds under the key caps


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## ckiraly (May 16, 2018)

samphony said:


> The elgato streamdeck has lcds under the key caps


 Whoa! This looks really cool!


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## Manaberry (May 16, 2018)

@JJP I do agree with you on the fact it's way more flexible to adapt with the X-keys 

I've completely forgot streamdeck! Seems to be the best option to customize your icons. You can even create folder with specific shortcuts for multiple softwares.


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## samphony (May 16, 2018)

Streamdeck is really cool I have a profile for pro tools and logic. If I switch to logic it will show it’s folders and key commands.

You could even setup multiple streamdecks. It’s a good compromise if you don’t want to use an iPad and want tactical feedback.


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## composerguy78 (May 18, 2018)

I have a Streamdeck question for using it with Logic - Does it basically trigger basic qwerty key commands? Or does it trigger specific Key Commands for each app? ie. within Logic does it somehow see Logic's Menu items/Key Commands or do you have to assign a key command within Logic to each of the Stream Deck's buttons?


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## ckiraly (May 18, 2018)

Based on the great feedback here, I ordered a Stream Deck. Seems like the most flexible solution and not too steep of a price ($140 on Amazon). It should be arriving shortly, I'll post my impressions after I've set it up and taken it for a spin. Thanks again!


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## Manaberry (May 18, 2018)

ckiraly said:


> Based on the great feedback here, I ordered a Stream Deck. Seems like the most flexible solution and not too steep of a price ($140 on Amazon). It should be arriving shortly, I'll post my impressions after I've set it up and taken it for a spin. Thanks again!


Great choice! I would like to read your feedback soon! I'm thinking seriously to buy one next month.


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## samphony (May 19, 2018)

composerguy78 said:


> I have a Streamdeck question for using it with Logic - Does it basically trigger basic qwerty key commands? Or does it trigger specific Key Commands for each app? ie. within Logic does it somehow see Logic's Menu items/Key Commands or do you have to assign a key command within Logic to each of the Stream Deck's buttons?


There is a companion app you download from the elgato website. In there you create a profile for each app like Logic, Pro Tools, Cubase etc. If you switch between apps the stream deck will follow. 

The stream deck app is easy to use and setup. On the elgato page is an editor to create custom icons.


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## Dewdman42 (May 19, 2018)

wow streamdeck looks really cool.


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## wcreed51 (May 21, 2018)

It appears that it only allows you to setup single keystrokes, rather than a sequence of keystrokes (as X-Keys does), which makes it a no go for me.


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## Dewdman42 (May 21, 2018)

I guess you could combine it with quickkeys or one of the macro software programs to do more stuff like that. What it basically gives you is a dedicated set of keys, leaving your QWERTY keyboard for its normal and typical tasks, and the ability to electronically label the keys.


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## ckiraly (May 23, 2018)

Just wanted to give an update...got a Stream Deck a couple of days ago. This thing is really slick! While it only does single keystrokes, I would not be surprised if Elgato updates to include more macro-like features. I was able to set up some of the more routine Cubase key commands and a few custom ones within a minute or two. Stream Deck allows multiple application profiles, so keys I have set up for Cubase automatically appear when in Cubase and when I switch to Pro Tools or even Windows, it automatically switches profiles (as long as you have one set up) so the keys are ready to go for the current app. You can also set up folders so that you can map out and organize tons of keys. Plus you can customize the icons anyway you like, images, text, both. It also, has brightness controls and even a sleep setting to turn off the display. So far, I'm totally impressed!


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## Manaberry (May 23, 2018)

ckiraly said:


> Just wanted to give an update...got a Stream Deck a couple of days ago. This thing is really slick! While it only does single keystrokes, I would not be surprised if Elgato updates to include more macro-like features. I was able to set up some of the more routine Cubase key commands and a few custom ones within a minute or two. Stream Deck allows multiple application profiles, so keys I have set up for Cubase automatically appear when in Cubase and when I switch to Pro Tools or even Windows, it automatically switches profiles (as long as you have one set up) so the keys are ready to go for the current app. You can also set up folders so that you can map out and organize tons of keys. Plus you can customize the icons anyway you like, images, text, both. It also, has brightness controls and even a sleep setting to turn off the display. So far, I'm totally impressed!


Damn your message is about to make me spend $150! :D
Thanks for the update!


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## wcreed51 (May 23, 2018)

Thanks for reporting. This may cause me to retire my X-Keys when full macros are supported!


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## wcreed51 (Jun 6, 2018)

Any update on how your getting on?


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## ckiraly (Jun 7, 2018)

wcreed51 said:


> Any update on how your getting on?



Sure. I'm really impressed by the ease of use and flexibility of the Stream Deck unit. I do wish it had macro capabilities, but maybe they'll add that in the future. One of the best features is the automatic profile switching so when I go from Cubase to Pro Tools to Windows, the keys change to match. Pretty solid so far!


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## ckiraly (Jul 2, 2018)

BOOM! Game. Changer. Stream Deck now with with Multi Actions!

https://gaming.help.elgato.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2793637-elgato-stream-deck-software-release-notes

I haven't had a chance to play yet, but this looks so cool!


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## whinecellar (Jul 2, 2018)

Stream Deck is a great idea, but ideally I’d want one with ten times the amount of buttons to be truly useful. The XKeys 128-key version is perfect... or an iPad with TouchOSC or Lemur. 

But yeah, Stream Deck is the idea many of us have been wishing for - they just need to make a bigger version!


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## wcreed51 (Jul 2, 2018)

This is great! Let us know how it works.


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## wcreed51 (Jul 2, 2018)

whinecellar said:


> but ideally I’d want one with ten times the amount of buttons



A button can lead to another set of buttons, etc


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 2, 2018)

I may grap one eventually, simply because I haven't made the leap to a touchpad lemur thing yet. Just spent a bunch of money on other stuff...so it has to wait a while


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## danbo (Jul 2, 2018)

I use them, with ControllerMate (macOS) you can easily trigger sophisticated MIDI output.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 2, 2018)

are they usable at all without a computer connected? Could it be used, for example, to control an X32 mixer?


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## whinecellar (Jul 2, 2018)

wcreed51 said:


> A button can lead to another set of buttons, etc



Yes, but then you lose a button to the "go back" function, and with only 15 as it is, I would be jumping around way too much. The functionality of the thing is killer though, especially as it can control any and all other apps!


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## whinecellar (Jul 2, 2018)

You know what - heck with it, I just ordered a Stream Deck even though I have 2 iPads full of TouchOSC controls. I like what the Stream Deck does so much, especially with non-DAW apps... can't wait to check it out. Still hope they make a bigger "pro" version at some point!


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## ckiraly (Jul 2, 2018)

whinecellar said:


> You know what - heck with it, I just ordered a Stream Deck even though I have 2 iPads full of TouchOSC controls. I like what the Stream Deck does so much, especially with non-DAW apps... can't wait to check it out. Still hope they make a bigger "pro" version at some point!



A slightly bigger version would be nice, but you won't be disappointed in the meantime.


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## wcreed51 (Jul 5, 2018)

I installed the updated software (don't have SD hardware yet), but didn't see any way to record multi actions.

Can you comment on that?


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## ckiraly (Jul 5, 2018)

wcreed51 said:


> I installed the updated software (don't have SD hardware yet), but didn't see any way to record multi actions.
> 
> Can you comment on that?



I created a quick demo video that shows how to create a Multi Action:



FYI, I'm having trouble using Multi Actions in Cubase, big bummer. I emailed Elgato support and am waiting to hear back. Probably just needs a software and/or firmware tweak. Stand-alone Hotkey actions still work fine.

Chris


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## whinecellar (Jul 5, 2018)

So my Stream Deck came today - WOW - what an incredible little box! This thing is genius! I definitely hope they make a bigger one at some point - I wonder if its driver allows multiple units? My only gripe is the fixed USB cable that sticks out the top, but holy smokes, what a great little tool!


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## tmhuud (Jul 5, 2018)

Oh. I’ve always thought about that little gadget. How are you liking it? What assignments are you assigning to it? I too wished it were bigger.


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## ckiraly (Jul 5, 2018)

ckiraly said:


> I created a quick demo video that shows how to create a Multi Action:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Update: It seems there is an issue with the Multi Action function and Cubase 9.5. I’m working with Elgato tech support to get this resolved, they’re working on it.


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## Paul Jelfs (Jul 5, 2018)

Just another thought for options , instead of x keys / Elgato 

I use Ek keys 128 with cubase , and it gives me 128 x 2 buttons (2 layers) , much cheaper and built like a tank. I am really surprised more composers don’t use it as it is designed for daws as well as other pro level programs .

I have mapped all my macros and cubase key commands to the buttons , and will shortly add the labels to the key caps . Takes a bit of set up , but is worth it if you use short cuts a lot : 

http://shop.expertkeys.com/en/home/8-ek-128-usb-keyboard--0700587547898.html

Also 80 and 58 keys available , and different sized buttons etc. Comes with print out sheets, caps and software - think it only works with pc , not Mac .

Anyone else use this with a DAW for midi / audio work ?


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## Dom (Jul 6, 2018)

Hey Paul

EK-128 USB looks perfect. Do you know what kind of data it's actually sending out? ASCII or can it do Midi? I would have to program it on my Windows machine, but then want to use it on my Mac rig.


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## wcreed51 (Jul 6, 2018)

Thanks ckiraly. I assumed in would be under System...


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## stonzthro (Jul 6, 2018)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Anyone else use this with a DAW for midi / audio work ?



John Powell has had one on (and off) his desk for years. Looks like he mostly uses iPads now tho.


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## whinecellar (Jul 6, 2018)

tmhuud said:


> Oh. I’ve always thought about that little gadget. How are you liking it? What assignments are you assigning to it? I too wished it were bigger.



Terry,

Stream Deck is absolutely phenomenal. I initially rejected it because it only has 15 buttons – but I’m going nuts with it. It will be great for DAW use, but I can actually see being most useful as an overall system-level tool. I’m just getting my feet wet, but I’ve already set up instant access buttons for many of my go to folders, apps, etc. - along with some macros for things like passwords, fetching mail, Photoshop batch commands, etc. - the sky is really the limit!

I won’t be getting rid of my iPads anytime soon, but it takes a heck of a lot longer to customize a touchOSC interface, especially if you use OSCulator to do system-level tasks. Stream Deck, on the other hand, is lightning fast to set up, and it’s a graphic environment as opposed to TouchOSC’s very simple text based interface.

This is the best $139 I’ve spent in a LONG time!


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2018)

And for me personally, I was mostly just going to use TouchOSC, if I ever went there, for choosing articulations, not much else, though maybe I would get more into it. I'm not interested in spending so much time trying to configure an elaborate setup. This would actually give me the buttons I need for a fraction of the cost and configuration time. Here's one question though...one advantage of OSC is the two directional thing...so that you can supposedly set things up so that as you change from track to track, the touchOSC display will change to context appropriate UI....etc.. so they say, I don't really know, but I guess with OSC you have a lot of power to setup fancy stuff like that which in the end would be very smooth. I'm
presuming that this device is pretty much controlled manually...or does it have any way to switch context automatically?

I actually like physical buttons too because in many cases I can reach for a button and feel my way to it without having to look down at it.


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## whinecellar (Jul 6, 2018)

Dewdman42 said:


> ...with OSC you have a lot of power to setup fancy stuff like that which in the end would be very smooth. I'm presuming that this device is pretty much controlled manually...or does it have any way to switch context automatically?
> 
> I actually like physical buttons too because in many cases I can reach for a button and feel my way to it without having to look down at it.



1. TouchOSC is not easy to set up for bi-directional indicators, at least in my experience. It can be done though, apparently.

2. Yes, the Stream Deck changes context automatically, at least in terms of active app. You can create at least 2 layers per application using the "folder" object, and it instantly switches icons/labels when you switch apps. It's brilliant - TouchOSC could never do that!

3. YES - as much as I love TouchOSC, it is WONDERFUL to finally have some real tactile buttons for a handful of things! The system-level stuff is going to be a game-changer for me!


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## Manaberry (Jul 6, 2018)

whinecellar said:


> it takes a heck of a lot longer to customize a touchOSC interface, especially if you use OSCulator to do system-level tasks. Stream Deck, on the other hand, is lightning fast to set up, and it’s a graphic environment as opposed to TouchOSC’s very simple text based interface.



That's why I do use Open Stage Control (highly customizable) instead of TouchOSC!
I would love to have a Streamdeck someday, those little lcd buttons look fantastic! But for now, my touchscreen is doing the job.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 6, 2018)

switching context per app at least will be handy when going between LPX and VEP. Doesn't really help when moving around between tracks. But still...for the price....and as you noted...good for system level stuff. Its probably on my list. I just spend a ton on other stuff....so...gotta wait..


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## wcreed51 (Jul 6, 2018)

I pulled the trigger this morning; should have it by Tuesday!


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## tmhuud (Jul 6, 2018)

whinecellar said:


> You can create at least 2 layers per application using the "folder" object, and it instantly switches icons/labels when (snip)



Thanks Jim. I’m in then. The 2 levels pushed me over the top. It will be fun to compare notes.


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## whinecellar (Jul 6, 2018)

tmhuud said:


> Thanks Jim. I’m in then. The 2 levels pushed me over the top. It will be fun to compare notes.



You’re gonna love it!


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## wcreed51 (Jul 6, 2018)

I don't think there's any limit to the number of levels...


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## Paul Jelfs (Jul 7, 2018)

Hi Dom , it’s ASCII . Up to 128 characters . You can do macros, key strings and single presses. The software is not as user friendly as Streamdeck, but it gets the job done and have had no problems in cubase using it .

Comes with print out sheets and labels caps and cd ; yes software listed as pc only, saves to the actual keyboard too .you can get 28 or 80 key versions as well . 

Does not do repeat commands - I.e. holding the key down - but that is for a reason . What Daw do you use ? You have 2 layers , so basically program 256 key commands , macros etc . The only thing is it takes a bit of programming and setting up - and works with the key commands in your daw . So you can assign a macro in DAW to say Ctrl + F , then activate each time with a key press .


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## Paul Jelfs (Jul 7, 2018)

Chris, I am also looking at the Streamdeck to add to Cubase 9.5 - what can’t it do currently ? Macros ? Not sure what you mean by multi action


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## Dom (Jul 10, 2018)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Hi Dom , it’s ASCII . Up to 128 characters . You can do macros, key strings and single presses. The software is not as user friendly as Streamdeck, but it gets the job done and have had no problems in cubase using it


Thanks Paul. Sounds good. I'm using Logic. The easiest may be to just program the unit so it sends out unique key commands for each key (that are unlikely to be used as regular KCs), and do that just once. Logic cam learn any KC that it receives so the definition can be added later in Logic.


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## danbo (Jul 10, 2018)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Just another thought for options , instead of x keys / Elgato
> 
> I use Ek keys 128 with cubase , and it gives me 128 x 2 buttons (2 layers) , much cheaper and built like a tank. I am really surprised more composers don’t use it as it is designed for daws as well as other pro level programs .
> 
> Anyone else use this with a DAW for midi / audio work ?



That's interesting, those units are exactly what X-Keys had before the switch to the new units some years ago. I mean exactly - I've got all these older X-Keys units (mechanical keys with legendable keycaps, 58, 128 and 88) and never touched the new ones because they exchanged mechanical Cherry switches for lighted switches (don't need more blinky lights). I use the 58 on all my computers for general work (e.g. switching virtual desktops) and am configuring the 88 for MIDI commands (never got the 128 - too big). 

Are these X-Keys knockoffs, or did X-Keys sell the rights to the design to them? What is the programming software? The older X-Keys work with ControllerMate (Mac) and the X-Keys software from them.


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## benmrx (Jul 19, 2018)

Woah!!!!! Greatest thread ever. Stream deck is EXACTLY what I’ve been looking for. Gonna order one tonight. 

Here’s to hoping they release a bigger version at some point.


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## whinecellar (Jul 19, 2018)

benmrx said:


> Woah!!!!! Greatest thread ever. Stream deck is EXACTLY what I’ve been looking for. Gonna order one tonight.
> 
> Here’s to hoping they release a bigger version at some point.



You may want to skim this dedicated thread about it - the plot thickens, in a great way:

https://vi-control.net/community/posts/4257280/

I now have a pair of them working together as one, and am LOVING it!


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## benmrx (Jul 19, 2018)

whinecellar said:


> You may want to skim this dedicated thread about it - the plot thickens, in a great way:
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/posts/4257280/
> 
> I now have a pair of them working together as one, and am LOVING it!


Thanks for the heads up!!


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## wcreed51 (Jul 20, 2018)

Jim, have you found any good sources for button icons?


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## whinecellar (Jul 20, 2018)

wcreed51 said:


> Jim, have you found any good sources for button icons?



I made all my own - it’s super easy. You can drag & drop any JPG or PNG, but being a tad OCD, I customized a handful or made some in Photoshop - especially for my tool palettes for Logic & Photoshop.


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## benmrx (Jul 20, 2018)

whinecellar said:


> I made all my own - it’s super easy. You can drag & drop any JPG or PNG, but being a tad OCD, I customized a handful or made some in Photoshop - especially for my tool palettes for Logic & Photoshop.



Jim, I got mine ordered last night. I'm kinda anxious to get some icons made. Is there a specific aspect ratio, pixel count, or file format they need to be?


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## whinecellar (Jul 20, 2018)

benmrx said:


> Jim, I got mine ordered last night. I'm kinda anxious to get some icons made. Is there a specific aspect ratio, pixel count, or file format they need to be?



You’ll love it. Yeah, they have a recommended size (I forget offhand), square aspect ratio, but you can just drag & drop and it will create them. I made some manually for my tool icons though. They also have an icon creator online utility - it’s on their website. It’s kinda basic however, so I made most of mine in Photoshop.


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## wcreed51 (Dec 14, 2018)

https://www.scoringnotes.com/reviews/boost-your-workflow-a-stream-deck-review/


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## Hat_Tricky (Jan 1, 2019)

Can you use stream deck to do keyswitches? I only have a 61 key keyboard


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 1, 2019)

I think you might have to use Bome Midi Translator or Keyboard Maestro to convert key commands into midi, but I could be wrong. Those aren't free. I think you'll have to use some kind of extra utility that can convert key commands into midi...not sure if there are any free ones.


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## lewisinkpress (Aug 24, 2020)

whinecellar said:


> You’re gonna love it!


I just got one -- any chance you might want to share how you set it up - new logic and this - and just looking to understand different peoples workflow... thanks in advance!


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## Nite Sun (Aug 24, 2020)

Hat_Tricky said:


> Can you use stream deck to do keyswitches? I only have a 61 key keyboard



if you're on windows you can install and setup this stream deck plugin to send note on/off or whatever else you're using to trigger keyswitches. Requires something like loopMIDI to get it working - all explained on the above link

edit: and possibly this for Mac OSX, although I haven't tested if it works...


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