# Stolen hard drive, nooooooooo......



## dfhagai (Jun 19, 2012)

Hi,

I'm shocked, disturbed and frightened by the fact that my mobile disk was stolen.
Tons of stuff on it:
LASS2 & Albion 2 with my watermark, 
EW stuff (useless without the iLok), 
all of Sonokinetic catalogue, 
Toontrack libraries,
Cinesample, Tonehammer, 8dio, Soundiron stuff etc...

My hope it that it fell to the hands of someone who doesn't know what it is...
but I've doubt it since I work in a music collage...
I hope that somehow a miracle will happen and it will be found soon, I feel like I've been raped, it's such a personal thing...

What I fear the most is that someone will share these libraries, especially those with my watermark on them...what then?

Any advice on what to do? can a hard drive be traced somehow using the Internet?

Thanks,
HD


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## Daryl (Jun 19, 2012)

dfhagai @ Tue Jun 19 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm shocked, disturbed and frightened by the fact that my mobile disk was stolen.
> Tons of stuff on it:
> ...


Make sure you report all the lost stuff to the developers concerned. Then your duty is done.

D


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## dfhagai (Jun 19, 2012)

Call of the alarms, I can eat sleep and breath again 
It was misplaced...
These where the most intense and nerving 24h of my life.

Going to erase the damn thing now


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## JBZeon (Jun 19, 2012)

Make a security 1:1 copy of your Hard Disk, you have lot of software free or paid and hardare for that, its cheap compared to lost the information on your HDD and you will be more in the " safe" side.


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## dfhagai (Jun 19, 2012)

Already did  thanks.


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Jun 19, 2012)

dfhagai @ Tue Jun 19 said:


> Going to erase the damn thing now



erase what?


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## dfhagai (Jun 19, 2012)

The things I don't want to fall in the wrong hands, in case that ever happens again. 
E.g watermarked samples


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## 667 (Jun 20, 2012)

Just use full disk encryption. That's what I do with all my loose/spare/backup drives. I back up to a USB cradle where I can swap in bare drives. And every single one of those is using TrueCrypt.

So does my laptop (you have to enter the encryption passphrase to even boot).


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## dfhagai (Jun 20, 2012)

During this whole incident, I was wondering if such a thing exists...
Thanks you


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## kitekrazy (Jun 20, 2012)

BTW Toontrack libraries would be difficult for someone else to use.


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## dfhagai (Oct 21, 2012)

To whom it may concern:
*Never loose your hardisk for one second.*
I did, and even today, 4 months later, some of the software developers refuse to update/upgrade my fully paid and legit software, becuase they are "still investigating..."
which means that I'm on a black list...

You hear me people - don't be human, don't be stupid, never forget, for you will regret it for many months to come.

Totally fraustrated, I feel that I can't proove my liabilty...all that happened is that I missplaced the damn thing for a couple of hours...
And I thought that I was honest by runing along and notify the developers that I lost my disk a couple of hourse after it all hapened, just to know if there's any procedure or tracking method...

On the end of the day, I just forgot my disk at work and someone there put it in the wrong closet for god sake...

If anyone here can, somehow help me earn back my integrity I will much appreciate it...


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## wst3 (Oct 21, 2012)

I can't help, but I can note that this demonstrates that even the most well intentioned, well thought out CP scheme is not without serious problems for honest, paying customers.

I do not mean to suggest that developers are not entitled to protect their products - they are. I just wish someone would come up with a CP scheme that does not cause problems for honest customers!


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## R.Cato (Oct 21, 2012)

I think your posts here speak for you, but I also understand the reaction of some developers.

Have you already mailed the developers the full story of your stolen harddrive? Also make sure to let them know that this thread here exists. Todays Online Marketing happens in forums like v.i. control, so bad reputation could cause a huge influence.

I really hope you're able to convince the mentioned developers, if not.....well sh** happens... :|


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## Leosc (Oct 21, 2012)

wst3 @ Sun Oct 21 said:


> I can't help, but I can note that this demonstrates that even the most well intentioned, well thought out CP scheme is not without serious problems for honest, paying customers.
> 
> I do not mean to suggest that developers are not entitled to protect their products - they are. I just wish someone would come up with a CP scheme that does not cause problems for honest customers!



Strap in, folks.


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## dfhagai (Oct 21, 2012)

Thanks for your support guys, I really appreciate this.



> Have you already mailed the developers the full story of your stolen hard drive? Also make sure to let them know that this thread here exists. Todays Online Marketing happens in forums like v.i. control, so bad reputation could cause a huge influence.


I did notify one of the big developers...he was firm but kind and eventually reconciled.
The trouble is, that the same developer warned all the others, and even though
he himself was reconciled, the others had no clue that the issue was resolved...

One of them really acts hard on me, like I'm a thief or something...
I won't mention his name out of respect, even though he shows total disrespect for me.... (you could have wrote "Hi" or "Hello" and "Bye" on your mail Mr.)

All of these developers are on this forum, and probably knows about this thread.


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## wst3 (Oct 21, 2012)

Acall @ Sun Oct 21 said:


> wst3 @ Sun Oct 21 said:
> 
> 
> > I do not mean to suggest that developers are not entitled to protect their products - they are. I just wish someone would come up with a CP scheme that does not cause problems for honest customers!
> ...



I know... futile is the word that comes to mind. That was just my instant reaction.

ugh!


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## R.Cato (Oct 21, 2012)

dfhagai @ Sun Oct 21 said:


> Thanks for your support guys, I really appreciate this.
> 
> One of them really acts hard on me, like I'm a thief or something...
> I won't mention his name out of respect, even though he shows total disrespect for me.... (you could have wrote "Hi" or "Hello" and "Bye" on your mail Mr.)
> ...



Then post the name and see what happens...

When you really said *the truth* it's the most effective method in my opinion. No customer servicer should treat you like a thief without any proven arguments.

Sample libraries are part of a business and every developer tries to have the best reputation out there, because it's the most effective way to advertise your company and products. 
Of course that might seem rude to some people, but keep in mind that developers of sample libraries are your helpful friends which make your life as a composer easier *and* also want to make money.

Yeah, I might be wrong with this suggestion and maybe some developers will hate me for this post, but when a developer writes other developers that they can't trust you, you're also allowed to post the name. It might turn out as a bad decicion for you or the developer... so think about it, if it is the right choice for you.

And no I don't hate sample libaries developers nor do I want to bash anyone. I am extremly happy with the situation of Virtual Instruments that we have today.

cheers

Robin o-[][]-o


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 21, 2012)

Much as people complain about iLok and e-licenser, etc, this is a good argument for them, no?


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## R.Cato (Oct 21, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Oct 21 said:


> Much as people complain about iLok and e-licenser, etc, this is a good argument for them, no?



As much as I hate them for forcing me to buy an additional USB Hub, they are a good solution for this particular scenario.


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## synergy543 (Oct 21, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Oct 21 said:


> Much as people complain about iLok and e-licenser, etc, this is a good argument for them, no?



Not true if someone steals your dongles. 

With one developer, it would apparently cost me thousands of dollars to re-license if my dongles were stolen. You think it would be easy enough for them to identify the location of the stolen dongles by the IP address (no?) but apparently, there are re-licensing fees involved that can add up to be a substantial amount.


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## RiffWraith (Oct 21, 2012)

Hi - sorry to hear about your troubles. I am sure this is frustrating.

Something does not make sense, however,

First, you said that the dev said, "we can't verify your email address on our system". Then,



dfhagai @ Sat Oct 20 said:


> It seems that my mail was ignored because I had a harddisk that was lost for 24h a few months ago.



Which mail was ignored?

The other thing I can't get my head around, is how they don't have your email. Did you use a different one then, as opposed to now? When I purchased Req, I had to give Tonehammer my real name. Did you not give them (or 8dio, depending on when you purchased) your real full name? Did you purchase the light vers? Maybe then Mike has your info? If it was the full vers, Troels should have it. Either way, someone MUST have your email address, and your real first and last name on file.

Best of luck.


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## dfhagai (Oct 21, 2012)

> The other thing I can't get my head around, is how they don't have your email. Did you use a different one then, as opposed to now?


At first, I did gave them my new email, and was answered that it's not on their system.
Then I gave them my old one, and was ignored after that...
They didn't just false claim it, it was my mistake.

I've even sent them a "watermarked" sample to prove that I'm a legit owner.
But here's what's irritates me the most - Instead of just telling me what's going on, they ignored me again and again.

Only after posting on this thread:
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3656392&no=1#3656392
Did they suddenly appear out of the blue, telling me that they are investigating the matter. 
No "sorry" no "Hi", and no "Bye", nothing, bad form.

I said it once and I'll say it again - Bad customer service!



> Then post the name and see what happens...


Well, now at least you know who I'm talking about....


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## playz123 (Oct 21, 2012)

With all due respect, there are apparently some developers who aren't sure yet that you are indeed a "customer" or legitimate, so they may need time to investigate. "Customer service" for folks who _are_ known to be 'legitimate' is another matter all together. However, that comment is not , in any way, meant to suggest that you are anything other than a person who is honest, entitled to assistance and who is attempting to solve a very difficult problem. In any case, not every developer works 24/7, so this may require a bit of patience perhaps.

As I asked in my other thread, do you have anything such as an e-mail or record of your purchase that you could supply to developers? Even an invoice from a shipped product might help. Perhaps ask developers what they require from you, and then see if you can supply it. (IP address, or what was used to watermark your purchase for example?).

I can't see how it would serve any purpose for a developer to stonewall any customer, if it can be proved they are indeed a customer. This appears to me to be a case where they wish to investigate and with so much piracy going on these days, I'm sure you will agree that that is understandable. I'm sure too that most companies will try to help you (depending on their lost/stolen policies) as soon as they are certain of your identity. I. for one, am not sure though how much good posting complaints on a forum will help one's relationship with a developer, unless of course the discussions with a developer have reached an impasse, or a developer has gone beyond just protecting their property. Do you feel you are at that stage now?? It's also a very tricky situation upon which one can comment here, as well, since one really needs to be familiar with _both_ sides of a story. In any case, good luck with solving this problem...and I mean that sincerely.


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## 667 (Oct 21, 2012)

This is crazy-- dongles aren't licenses! They are simply part of a copy protection system. Your license is a legal right to use the sound recordings. Vendors cannot take this away from you just because some component of the copy protection system is lost/stolen/broken. They cannot have it both ways! If the dongle is the license then I can re-sell the libraries authorized on it!

This is why encrypting your system is better. That way if anyone steals it they cannot use it (unlike iLok). No one gets your watermarked files, serial numbers, etc. So if your computer is stolen, you should be able to reauthorize most of your libraries with little trouble.


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## Hannes_F (Oct 21, 2012)

Question: Would not encryption on a samples drive slow the performance down?


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## Darthmorphling (Oct 21, 2012)

It would seem to me that since he provided them the original email address, and I am assuming he had to pay for these somehow. Wouldn't it be a simple matter to scan your identification and send it to them. Maybe a picture of you holding the license as well to give proof of who you are. 

It shouldn't take 4 months to "investigate" something like this. This is just stonewalling. If you paid for this with your credit card you may be able to initiate a payment dispute, depending how long ago the purchase was made.


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## passenger57 (Oct 21, 2012)

Could someone shed more light on how to encrypt a sample drive? Can Kontakt still find the samples? Would performance still be the same?
Would be nice to have for piece of mind in case a drive was lost or stolen. Would be interested to know if any of the developers here do this on their own drives.


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## 667 (Oct 21, 2012)

Performance concerns are legitimate given our heavy use of I/O. Modern CPU (e.g. i7) has built-in support for AES encryption which will help this a lot. When I was researching this I found database stress tests that suggested performance hit was very small.

However I am only using on laptops and backup disks, not my main DAW, so cannot confirm-- my main DAW is older core 2 system that doesn't support AES in the CPU and frankly I need to wring every drop of performance I can out of it! 

The software I use is TrueCrypt, it's open source. Windows and Mac also both include support for Full Disk Encryption. On Windows it's called Bitlocker. OSX is called File Vault.

Also when I say Encryption is "better" I really mean "better in theory" in the sense that if software vendors would get on board and work with users instead of treating them like criminals encryption has the potential to be a better solution than USB dongles.

For example, my systems are all secured with a password. Some, the disks are encrypted and cannot be read at all without a password. Why aren't my iLok's? Why isn't my eLicensor? If the vendors are going to treat these dongles as "licenses" then they have an obligation to help users secure them against theft, misuse, etc.

Waves is actually moving in the right direction with their cloud-based licensing. I'm honestly shocked at this (they do not have a reputation for customer-friendly policies) but being able to manage licenses this way is in my opinion much better than what we have with current hardware-based protection.

I'd be all for password protected iLoks though. I paid a lot of money for these libraries, plug-ins, etc. and do NOT want them walking off! I'd do anything to secure them better but as far as I know there's really nothing you can do. :-(


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## stargazer (Oct 21, 2012)

667 @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> I'd be all for password protected iLoks though. I paid a lot of money for these libraries, plug-ins, etc. and do NOT want them walking off! I'd do anything to secure them better but as far as I know there's really nothing you can do. :-(


+1


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## dfhagai (Oct 21, 2012)

My identity or legitimacy is not the issue.
They found me on they're system once I gave them my old email address.
Of course I have other prove of purchase, I have a google checkout invoice (thanks Mike ),
And all of my sample a watermarked aren't they? 
Isn't it what's its all about? Prove of ownership

Anyway, they are not investigating on my identity, but whether the sample where copied on the 24h that my disk was misplaced away from me and spread across the net.
Who knows how long will that take, but I'm not worried for they will find nothing, I'm clean.

Of course it's a legitimate measure for the to take, but there is a proper way to do that,
while holdingl respect twards a person you know nothing about.

I don't mean to stain 8dio reputation, But my experience with them is not good at all, I don't like to be bullied.
Lets also say that my world won't crumble if they decide not to sell
Me more of they products in the future, as opposed to other developers.

Let me also take this opportunity to show my appreciation to SoundIron,
Who read this thread and send me a private mail with a list of all the products I ever bought from them, telling me that I'm on they're system, showing support.

Mike even offered his help and found my Requiem Pro google account invoice number.
What more can you ask for...that's a very good customer service and being humane.
In the future they will have my business, 8dio won't.


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## mk282 (Oct 22, 2012)

So now it's pretty clear why Tonehammer split up after all, I think.


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 22, 2012)

The real measure of civilization in any society can be found in the way it treats its most unfortunate citizens - its prisoners" - Dostoevsky

The real measure of a developer can be found in the way it treats its most unfortunate customers.


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## R.Cato (Oct 22, 2012)

dfhagai @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> Let me also take this opportunity to show my appreciation to SoundIron,
> Who read this thread and send me a private mail with a list of all the products I ever bought from them, telling me that I'm on they're system, showing support.
> 
> Mike even offered his help and found my Requiem Pro google account invoice number.
> ...



Mike from Soundiron searched your google invoice number for a product from 8dio?

That's what I call a top-notch customer service. =o

I hope you get your Requiem Update links now. 



mk282 @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> So now it's pretty clear why Tonehammer split up after all, I think.



You never know what really happened, so it might be not fair to blame 8dio for this, too.


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## FriFlo (Oct 22, 2012)

I cannot help but finding it scandalous that some developers seem to bare their risk of piracy upon the shoulders of their customers. Stolen or lost HDs seem to be the loophole of the current protection plan.
Personally, I rarely take HDs with my sample libraries on a walk very often. However, I teach students piano or composition in my studio. I could never with 100% exclude the possibility of somebody copying files from my computers or stealing dongles. By copy theft I possibly wouldn't even know, it happened! I guess this is even more risky for people without a dedicated studio. Reading this makes me doubt, if I would ever report such a loss at all. My trust has been lost once more ...


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## Hannes_F (Oct 22, 2012)

I guess somebody needs help, right?


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## MA-Simon (Oct 22, 2012)

> Much as people complain about iLok and e-licenser, etc, this is a good argument for them, no?


I am ging to get a new workstation, really soon.
Already I do have nightmares about all the Installing/re-registration stuff.
More iLoks please!


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## mark812 (Oct 22, 2012)

MA-Simon @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> > Much as people complain about iLok and e-licenser, etc, this is a good argument for them, no?
> 
> 
> I am ging to get a new workstation, really soon.
> ...



And what if you lose it?


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## Leosc (Oct 22, 2012)

Wow. As a relative outsider (left the iLok and other ridiculous systems a while ago) it seems amazing to me how far people are willing to go out of their way just to adhere to anti-piracy policies.


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## Ganvai (Oct 22, 2012)

mark812 @ 22nd October 2012 said:


> MA-Simon @ Mon Oct 22 said:
> 
> 
> > > Much as people complain about iLok and e-licenser, etc, this is a good argument for them, no?
> ...



Ohoh, this thread takes an unfortunate way to an endless discussion about copy-protection.

First we will talk about the methods about protecting digital wares, then we will start to talk about, that there is no way to protect a software without bullying the customer and then we will start a philosophic thread about honest human beings and software-pirates...

I think this all would be easier if we would act like normal human beings. And I talk about both sides, customers and developers. 

Soundiron is a very good example for that... 8dio not so much


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 22, 2012)

mark812 @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> MA-Simon @ Mon Oct 22 said:
> 
> 
> > > Much as people complain about iLok and e-licenser, etc, this is a good argument for them, no?
> ...



If they stay plugged into your computers, as mine do, you can't lose them.


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## RiffWraith (Oct 22, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> mark812 @ Mon Oct 22 said:
> 
> 
> > MA-Simon @ Mon Oct 22 said:
> ...



False. What if you need to take them to a gig with you? You CAN lose them.


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 22, 2012)

RiffWraith @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Mon Oct 22 said:
> 
> 
> > mark812 @ Mon Oct 22 said:
> ...



Ah, true, I didn't consider that.. I don't play live much anymore and when I do, I don't use my computers. Mine never leave my studio. Best solution then is to have a spare iLok key an do the Zero downtime thing where you get temporary licenses.


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## Daryl (Oct 22, 2012)

The trouble is that there is no 100% perfect system that suits everyone. iLoks and eLicensers are fine, as long as you don't ever need them outside the studio. However, it's obvious that many people do carry their dongles around, and are therefore at risk of losing them or having them stolen.

Even people who keep their dongles in the studio are at risk of losing them, if their insurance doesn't cover theft of software and licences.

There really should be a better way, but so far no developer has managed to come up with something that suits both themselves and all of their customers.

D


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## dfhagai (Oct 22, 2012)

Maybe a small fingerprint reader peripheral 
I know Some keyboards and laptops have these built in.

As long as no one chops and still your finger...


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## Daryl (Oct 22, 2012)

dfhagai @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> Maybe a small fingerprint reader peripheral
> I know Some keyboards and laptops have these built in.
> 
> As long as no one chops and still your finger...


You are then almost in the same situation as before. What happens is you lose your fingerprint reader, or it is stolen? I suppose that at least you could rectify the situation yourself though.

It would also require your fingerprint to be on file, and we know how some people hate anyone having personal information about them. :lol: 

Personally I'd be quite happy with this situation, but it would only work for products where the only user was the licence holder, so it would be useless for sequencers, for example.

D


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## RiffWraith (Oct 22, 2012)

dfhagai @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> Maybe a small fingerprint reader peripheral
> I know Some keyboards and laptops have these built in.
> 
> As long as no one chops and still your finger...



Retinal scanner would be better. Most people would have a difficult time cutting someone's eye out, but an easier time slicing somoene's finger off :lol:


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## playz123 (Oct 22, 2012)

You guys are so 'old school'. DNA paves the way!


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## Daryl (Oct 22, 2012)

playz123 @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> You guys are so 'old school'. DNA paves the way!


Until the insurance company gets hold of the details and cancels your insurance, because you're a health risk...!

D


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## Diffusor (Oct 22, 2012)

Daryl @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> There really should be a better way, but so far no developer has managed to come up with something that suits both themselves and all of their customers.
> 
> D



I think the best way would to be to have an option that you have to reauthorize the dongle after a certain time period. Like once every 3 momths, or 1 month even. That way if you lose it whoever had your dongle could only use the software for that period of time then it would become useless.


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## Daryl (Oct 22, 2012)

Diffusor @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> Daryl @ Mon Oct 22 said:
> 
> 
> > There really should be a better way, but so far no developer has managed to come up with something that suits both themselves and all of their customers.
> ...


I would hate that. It sort of reminds me of the dark ages, when I had to put the Cubase CD into the Mac every month. It was always at an inopportune moment.

This is why I say that I don't know of any method that suits everyone. I'm quite happy with the current system, but I do appreciate that other people find it annoying.

D


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## Ed (Oct 22, 2012)

Why cant there be a service that will backup your licences and libraries so that if it all goes bad you can not only get your libraries back but also make sure your licences are safe? The idea that a USB key IS the licence is ridiculous, since if its lost, you're just screwed.


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## Peaslee (Oct 22, 2012)

The old Tonehammer records are maintained by both parties for the sake of past customers and out of basic necessity. Based on dfhagai's posts, he just seemd to be having trouble receiving update support from a few different developers because they couldn't verify his info. I wanted to make sure that 1) he wasn't haven't any trouble getting his Soundiron updates as well, and; 2) to see if the real source of the problem was because he'd changed his billing info or email information. That can obviously make verifying old customers _rather _difficult later on. 

Lost or changed email addresses are the most common cause of problems with any update. People change billing info and lose old email logins all the time. It can turn into a bit of a puzzle, as I'm sure all of the devs on VI can attest to. Soundiron has done a fair number of product updates, so we've gotten good at sorting this kind of thing out quickly. If we could help him with that, it would probably help other devs sort him out as well.

dfhagai had actually used two different email addresses over time, so it seemed possible that conflicting email address info that was causing the problem. He happened to also have bought Requiem in the same order as a few of other libraries that are now Soundiron. That same order also included Emotional Piano, which has had a recent update he may have missed, so his order info was already handy. I was therefore able to provide him the basic details of the entire transaction. 

It wasn't originally clear from his earlier comments that his trouble had anything to do with watermarking or DRM. It just appeared that he'd lost a hard drive and was trying to re-download the libraries he'd purchased in the past, which happens all the time. Now I personally wouldn't consider it a serious risk. Your typical portable USB drive thief is highly unlikely to know what a sample library is. However, if the issue does in fact have something to do with security, that is entirely up to the dev to decide. Whatever my personal opinion on any other dev's policy or the general issue of DRM may be, it's not a subject I'll wade into here.


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## dfhagai (Oct 22, 2012)

> It wasn't originally clear from his earlier comments that his trouble had anything to do with watermarking or DRM. It just appeared that he'd lost a hard drive and was trying to re-download the libraries he'd purchased in the past, which happens all the time. Now I personally wouldn't consider it a serious risk. Your typical portable USB drive thief is highly unlikely to know what a sample library is. However, if the issue does in fact have something to do with security, that is entirely up to the dev to decide. Whatever my personal opinions on another dev's policy or the general issue of DRM may be, it's not a subject I'll wade into here.


Hi Mike,

If it wasn't clear, let me clarify it again:
I'm accused at being negligence.
The misplacing of my hard drive for 24h *may* have caused the samples to lick into the net.
It's not a matter of my info not being found by the developers due to my email address being changed...

Anyway, you've being more then helpful and kind.
Much respect for that!


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## Peaslee (Oct 22, 2012)

Losing track of a hard drive for a couple of hours isn't something I'd ever think to consider a potential security risk unless you're carrying plans to the Death Star.


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## dfhagai (Oct 22, 2012)




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## Diffusor (Oct 22, 2012)

Daryl @ Mon Oct 22 said:


> Diffusor @ Mon Oct 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Daryl @ Mon Oct 22 said:
> ...




I just mean as an option, if you find the chance of losing your licenses not acceptable (in the case of theft). Days before the license period expires it could give you a warning to remind you.


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## dfhagai (Oct 23, 2012)

To whom it may concern, I've received my download links from 8dio,
And I thank them for that.
Thought it would be fair to share the happy ending (I hope) as well


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## Daryl (Oct 23, 2012)

Diffusor @ Tue Oct 23 said:


> I just mean as an option, if you find the chance of losing your licenses not acceptable (in the case of theft). Days before the license period expires it could give you a warning to remind you.


As long as it is only an option, and not compulsory I think that could work. I wouldn't lose my licences anyway, because I have insurance. :wink: 

D


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