# A-list composer copies zimmer? (Part 2)



## MoonFlare (Mar 25, 2013)

A gentleman notified me that the time I had set for the Transformers score was wrong. Since the thread has been locked, I have reposted the links with the correct timing (just click on them). I believe the 6-7 bars from the time marks are similar, and that this justifies my initial questions.

King Arthur (2004): 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh0ikXWN ... age#t=594s (9:54) 

Transformers (2007): 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... w3aE#t=80s (1:21)


Original thread:

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30653


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 25, 2013)

Dear lord, no.


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## Tatu (Mar 25, 2013)

MoonFlare, why stuck on these.. go through Stravinsky's _Les sacre du printemps_ and come back saying how little you think of John Williams now :wink:


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## Lex (Mar 25, 2013)

Moonflare,

Yes they are close-ish, and you can find many more examples from scores done by team of composers that closely collaborate for a long time. 

So , yes they are close in some ways, and? What's your point? What is it that you want to discuss? 

alex


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## dcoscina (Mar 25, 2013)

Didn't you read Mr Zimmer's response in the last thread? Jablonsky has worked under Zimmer for a while and if the reference does t bother Hans Zimmer why should it bother you? Everything is borrowed from somewhere else my friend. Even Stravinsky used folk tunes in his ballets (he actually had to share royalties with another composer on Petrushka because he used a theme that he thought was public domain when it turned out the author of it was very much alive). Prokofiev re used some of his own material from work to work too. 

If you are looking for true innovation, look elsewhere because film scoring rarely affords composers the time or acceptance to be truly unique any more if it ever did in the first place.


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## reddognoyz (Mar 25, 2013)

I didn't see Han's comment on the original thread? what did he have to say?


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 25, 2013)

reddognoyz @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> I didn't see Han's comment on the original thread? what did he have to say?



Hans' name at VI-C is rctec.


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## Alex Cuervo (Mar 25, 2013)

This is what Hans said to you last time:

"Thank You, Moonflare, for granting me permission to comment on your self-important thread. 
F*King Arthur is just a pile of silly epic music for a very silly movie. Steve worked on it (just as I have worked on some of his movies), but that doesn't mean he used any of it. 
Now, Moonflare, be a good chap and bugger off. Write some music that is not influenced by current trends, invent the next big thing and stop trying to get everyone's attention by discovering imaginary crimes."

And the fact that the thread was locked should indicate that it was a terrible terrible idea to try and resurrect it again.


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## reddognoyz (Mar 25, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> reddognoyz @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't see Han's comment on the original thread? what did he have to say?
> ...



Thanks Guy, I have to confess I haven't put in the time to figure out how to search for threads and contributors. I will.


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## reddognoyz (Mar 25, 2013)

rctec's comment was dismissive, but I think he has a right to be, it appears he and SJ are friends who have worked together and I think his comment about the King Arther soundtrack indicates the level of (un)importance he attaches to the whole thing, save for the accusation, which I think may have offended him.


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## MrLinckus (Mar 25, 2013)

Honestly... in every actual filmscore there is music or a melody line wich has another film back then...  thats normal... tones are limited, lines are limited... nobody cares if the result is good ...

H-Wood Films copy each other, thousands of remakes etc... nobody cares  ... 

Hans' also didn't invent that spicc lines, but brought it to film music... williams looks to mahler, holst etc... again ... thats cool and refreshing because even with that little sneak copy everyone of that guys is an true artist, because they don't care about such things


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## Christof (Mar 25, 2013)

Excuse me gentlemen if I add my humble opinion, but is this a forum for professional musicians or is it a preschool messaging board?


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## Dean (Mar 25, 2013)

MoonFlare @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> A gentleman notified me that the time I had set for the Transformers score was wrong. Since the thread has been locked, I have reposted the links with the correct timing (just click on them). I believe the 6-7 bars from the time marks are similar, and that this justifies my initial questions.


Are you still that desperate to get an audience with the man?
D


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## Ciaran Birch (Mar 25, 2013)

Dean @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> MoonFlare @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> 
> 
> > A gentleman notified me that the time I had set for the Transformers score was wrong. Since the thread has been locked, I have reposted the links with the correct timing (just click on them). I believe the 6-7 bars from the time marks are similar, and that this justifies my initial questions.
> ...



+1


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## reddognoyz (Mar 25, 2013)

Christof @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> Excuse me gentlemen if I add my humble opinion, but is this a forum for professional musicians or is it a preschool messaging board?



there's a difference??? : )


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## Tatu (Mar 25, 2013)

reddognoyz @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> Christof @ Mon Mar 25 said:
> 
> 
> > Excuse me gentlemen if I add my humble opinion, but is this a forum for professional musicians or is it a preschool messaging board?
> ...



LOL


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 25, 2013)

Not pre-school, but very definitely like High School at times, where people vie to be on good terms with the popular kids.


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## reddognoyz (Mar 25, 2013)

yea, well that popular kid is a film scoring genus. I watched POTC stranger tides this weekend and the mickey mousing he does ( with a huge epic orchestra of course) is brilliant. A man after me own heart arrrggh!


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## reddognoyz (Mar 25, 2013)

AND Jablonski... is amazing as well, he was part of the hybrid score movement, on the inside of it and as cutting edge as there is


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## Craig Sharmat (Mar 25, 2013)

The past thread was locked and this one was created anyway, as mods we discuss all things before reacting but my guess is this will warrant a temporary ban.


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## Inductance (Mar 25, 2013)

reddognoyz @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> AND Jablonski... is amazing as well, he was part of the hybrid score movement, on the inside of it and as cutting edge as there is



Agreed. Besides Transformers, I enjoyed his work on the Gears of War game series, and on Steamboy and Dragon Wars, two lesser-known films with exceptional music (the music being probably the only good thing about Dragon Wars!). And despite the suggestions being made by the thread-starter, to my ears a Jablonsky score sounds like Jablonsky, and a Hans score sounds like Hans. They each have their own voice. 

Oh, well, another thread about to be closed...!


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## Peter Alexander (Mar 25, 2013)

For the record, the hybrid score was initiated by Miklos Rozsa when he used the theremin in, I believe, Spellbound.

From there, Jerry Goldsmith was an early innovator of the hybrid score. See 1984's Runaway, a cop drama scored largely with Yamaha synths. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1jGNaWLBH8


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## germancomponist (Mar 25, 2013)




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## RiffWraith (Mar 25, 2013)

Thomas_J @ Tue Mar 26 said:


> In Norway, if your neighbor builds a new garage, you'd rather burn it to the ground than build your own.



Holy Christ :roll:


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## Inductance (Mar 25, 2013)

Whoa! Thomas J returns. Welcome back. 

And btw, Mr. Jablonsky, you are free to comment on any of this. :mrgreen:


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## Alex Cuervo (Mar 25, 2013)

Thomas_J @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> In order to understand where moonflare is coming from you need to understand that the people of Norway are driven by jealousy and contempt for the successful, coupled with a positively charming arrogance that I myself have put to good use on many occasions. They are the moralistic, self important trust fund babies of the planet. A great people who pride themselves on mediocrity for the purpose of equality, and their superior moral values. In Norway, if your neighbor builds a new garage, you'd rather burn it to the ground than build your own. Naturally, if someone writes music that is even the slightest bit more listenable than your own, you come up with a way to diminish the value of it before you expend even a calorie on improving your own skills.
> 
> As a fellow half-Norwegian it is however disappointing to see the potent youthful ignorance, arrogance and bile of moonflare completely wasted on such an embarrassing trifle. Surely he has garages to burn down?



Oof!


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## nikolas (Mar 25, 2013)

1. Moonflare in his own words is gone. There's no reason to try to explain anything to him.

2. moonflare in his own words is gone. Nobody needs an explaining why this is bad really. While I enjoyed TJs' post I find that this whole thread is useless. If a person doesn't get a locked thread, the complaints made against him and redoes the thread... well... that's too bad for him.

3. Zimmer already stated his opinion on the "issue" (there IS NO ISSUE) and his annoyance with this whole thing. Any member would be annoyed by the persistence of this person 'moonflare', wouldn't they? I know I would.

In other words, even if it seems somewhat harsh to do so, can we, please, leave this thread die? I can't lock it, but I certainly don't see a reason for its existence!


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## Dan Mott (Mar 25, 2013)

Moonflare doesn't bother me.... I pay no attention to it, but what draws my attention to this thread is all of you guys taking him down and be bothered by this. Then the celebs come in and say what they gotta say than BAM, everyone shits them selves. 

Don't know why he bothers you guys who say you want the thread to die. Just ignore him if he bothers you. Gees.


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## Ed (Mar 25, 2013)

Most epic flame I've seen in a while haha



Thomas_J @ Mon Mar 25 said:


> In order to understand where moonflare is coming from you need to understand that the people of Norway are driven by jealousy and contempt for the successful, coupled with a positively charming arrogance that I myself have put to good use on many occasions. They are the moralistic, self important trust fund babies of the planet. A great people who pride themselves on mediocrity for the purpose of equality, and their superior moral values. In Norway, if your neighbor builds a new garage, you'd rather burn it to the ground than build your own. Naturally, if someone writes music that is even the slightest bit more listenable than your own, you come up with a way to diminish the value of it before you expend even a calorie on improving your own skills.
> 
> As a fellow half-Norwegian it is however disappointing to see the potent youthful ignorance, arrogance and bile of moonflare completely wasted on such an embarrassing trifle. Surely he has garages to burn down?


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## Vision (Mar 25, 2013)

..subscribes to thread.. waits patiently for random John Powell reply.. 

o[])


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## Rctec (Mar 25, 2013)

I am truly sorry that anyone watched POTC "On Stranger Tides". 
I wish Thomas would comment as eloquently as he did on garages above on our shared suffering on that one. Honestly, we really had a good idea, but alas...It's very hard to tell a company they can't use the temp when they actually own it! Now, that's Temp Hell...But Mickey Mousing is, of course, appropriate for a Disney picture.
And, Dan-Jay, I don't think here anyone shits themselves. In fact, I think all those people where rather nice, thoughtful and supportive during your "I'm giving up music" crisis. Where's the gratitude?


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## Dan Mott (Mar 25, 2013)

Rctec @ Tue Mar 26 said:


> I am truly sorry that anyone watched POTC "On Stranger Tides".
> I wish Thomas would comment as eloquently as he did on garages above on our shared suffering on that one. Honestly, we really had a good idea, but alas...It's very hard to tell a company they can't use the temp when they actually own it! Now, that's Temp Hell...But Mickey Mousing is, of course, appropriate for a Disney picture.
> And, Dan-Jay, I don't think here anyone shits themselves. In fact, I think all those people where rather nice, thoughtful and supportive during your "I'm giving up music" crisis. Where's the gratitude?



It's funny how you keep referring to my thread :D

Also, My post wasn't to beat on anyone. I just feel that some people are putting this guy down. For example, your comments towards this guy came across as a bit rude, if you really meant it, I'd be pretty put down by it, especially coming from you. I have a lot of gratitude for the people that supported me. Was very surprised too.

And shitting them selves meaning, some people think it's epic for you or TJ to flame some guy on a forum that really should just be ignored if it bothers everyone so much. I'd prefer you guys keep joining in the music composing discussions because this is the type of stuff that drives people away from forums. It would be a shame for the top guys in the business to stop posting because of this nonsense. I believe that's what drove Nick Phoenix away which was quite disappointing.

Anyway.


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## Rctec (Mar 26, 2013)

Rude?!? If anything, I tinged the very edges of my words with a light sprinkle of irony! Rude, moi? Never!
And the reasons I refer to your posts...they crack me up. They brighten my days. They make me howl with laughter. ...because you consistently miss the point, you pick at some tiny bit in the middle of a dicussion while ignoring the bigger context, in whatever subject is being discussed. So very Monty Python of you. It reminds me of the "Dead Parrot" sketch, which I truly adore.
But, back on the subject, which is "why not just ignore his post?"
In this case, he - Moonbeam - was referring directly to one of my (more forgetable) scores, and - in some weird twist of Norwegian cultural misunderstanding - asking me rather brusquely to comment. So I did. With best German charm. 

Maybe you are right. No one else should have commented. Just ignore (Would that not be worse? who wants to go through all that trouble of uncovering and documenting a hideous case of plagarism, write a provocative headline to draw attention and to have it all just come to nothing, to feel the cold chill of silence and indifference?) But honestly....was it not all worth it, just to read Thomas' astutely entertaining piece? (And Peter Alexander's great Goldsmith contribution)

...and it's not like he was willing to give up. He pm'd me, he started a new thread - he's got a fire in his belly! ...You think we are putting him down, people are shitting themselves, he's all intimidated? I really don't think so. Look at the facts. Second thread. More conspiracy. Am I now missing the point?
But all joking aside. I actually think if he took some of the comments to heart, he'll stand a much better chance of being part of a successful composer community. Remember that his original post could not be read as anything but critical, trivial and - at best - meanspiritly challenging the integrity of another composer.

Oh, and Nick seems to be rather busy doing great and wonderful things like performing his music at the Disney hall. Now, that takes guts! I'm very excited for him.

Anyway?


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## Vision (Mar 26, 2013)

Well Rctec.. I think it's pretty cool that you're human enough to show that you are not just a stuck up, robot of an A list composer who "can't be bothered" by other peoples comments. Please keep posting.


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## nikolas (Mar 26, 2013)

Both threads and other threads as well beg the question: Why do they exist in the first place?

1. Is moonflare someone who is suffering from something illegal (plagiarism? Give me a break here... I did listen to the two chunks of music. They are very close, and I bet I can find plenty more very close to that! So what!??!? For a few measures?!?!)? I doubt it.

2. Is moonflare actually the composer behind one of the two works? No way, since Hans Zimmer is already here posting and the other party are friends with him!

3. Is he trying to notify the community of something we didn't know? Give me a break, yet again: We are composers and most of us know very well what it means to be influenced (even without knowing it) by other works, or other composers! bliah for originality when there's SO MUCH MUSIC AROUND! I'm ready to be that if we made a volume with ALL the music available, we'd find so much plagiarism that it would take the whole life of many of us in order to get it together.

And we know it!

4. Is he inviting Hans Zimmer (who moonflare knows he is around), or someone else to contribute somehow? Doubtful given his words in the first thread, and his persistence to repost the same thread yet again, after the first one was locked.

So what does this leave us?

A troll.

And, to be very clear (to Dan and anyone else):
a. I'm a mod here and very happy to be here, trying to do as much as possible to help out the community.
b. Most of you actually know me, and probably know how fair and honest I try to be. In fact in the CGEmpire days I withdrew one of my entries, in my own competitions, because of plagiarism (which I have NO idea was happening. Was notified later).
c. Am not getting paid by anyone here. And I love contemporary classical music (as is evident too much almost... :D).


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## Dan Mott (Mar 26, 2013)

Rctec @ Tue Mar 26 said:


> Rude?!? If anything, I tinged the very edges of my words with a light sprinkle of irony! Rude, moi? Never!
> And the reasons I refer to your posts...they crack me up. They brighten my days. They make me howl with laughter. ...because you consistently miss the point, you pick at some tiny bit in the middle of a dicussion while ignoring the bigger context, in whatever subject is being discussed. So very Monty Python of you. It reminds me of the "Dead Parrot" sketch, which I truly adore.
> But, back on the subject, which is "why not just ignore his post?"
> In this case, he - Moonbeam - was referring directly to one of my (more forgetable) scores, and - in some weird twist of Norwegian cultural misunderstanding - asking me rather brusquely to comment. So I did. With best German charm.
> ...



Well then, I'm glad I can howl you with laughter and brighten up your day with my posts :D. That's truly flattering! Perhaps I shall post more often :mrgreen:


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## jamwerks (Mar 26, 2013)

nikolas @ Tue Mar 26 said:


> Any member would be annoyed by the persistence of this person 'moonflare', wouldn't they? I know I would.



+1


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## Ryan (Mar 26, 2013)

Thomas_J @ 26/3/2013 said:


> In order to understand where moonflare is coming from you need to understand that the people of Norway are driven by jealousy and contempt for the successful, coupled with a positively charming arrogance that I myself have put to good use on many occasions. They are the moralistic, self important trust fund babies of the planet. A great people who pride themselves on mediocrity for the purpose of equality, and their superior moral values. In Norway, if your neighbor builds a new garage, you'd rather burn it to the ground than build your own. Naturally, if someone writes music that is even the slightest bit more listenable than your own, you come up with a way to diminish the value of it before you expend even a calorie on improving your own skills.
> 
> As a fellow half-Norwegian it is however disappointing to see the potent youthful ignorance, arrogance and bile of moonflare completely wasted on such an embarrassing trifle. Surely he has garages to burn down?



HAHA! I thought the people from the big city Trondheim was the most jealous ones, Thomas? 

nha, kidding!


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