# Are courses enough or Shall I read orchestration books too?



## MeloKeyz (Jan 4, 2022)

Let me be honest here, I am not formally trained and I didn't go to any music college but I do know a decent knowledge of theory that keeps me going. In the past two years, I finished tens of courses from Evenant, Udemy, ThinkSpace, tons of video tutorials and soon I will be considering Alex Pfeffer's trailer course. I can't read music sheets but I am willing to learn it for the sake of understanding orchestration books and be a better composer in general.

So, for trailer, TV and games music, how important to read lengthy text books like Adler's study of orchestration or Rimsky's principles of orchestration if you just writing for trailers, TV and games? How many successful young composers out there who are not formally trained but know their stuff through practice or whatever method they followed? Were Mark Petrie and Cody Still formally trained? .... Notice that I am talking about modern composers these days not old ones who for sure were formally trained.

Finally, I am not really talking about film scoring because obviously it requires a formal education and I am not going to film score a dead cat anytime soon, not to mention its urgent need of having strong relations in the industry so I am not really into film scoring. My focus is modern trailer, TV shows and games music.

And sorry for the lengthy post


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## patrick76 (Jan 4, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Were Mark Petrie and Cody Still formally trained?


Mark Petrie has formal training. He studied film scoring at Berklee.


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## aeliron (Jan 4, 2022)

Score analyses like this guy -  - is a good intro.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 4, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Reading music sheets is not hard to learn at all, and it opens up learning from score studying for you.
> 
> I would make this #1 priority if I was in your shoes. There are tutorials everywhere about it, I’m sure.


Wish all due respect @Henrik B. Jensen, I really hate to sound like an ungrateful bastard in forums but your reply is more of a piece of advice than actually answering my questions. I am aware that reading music is cool and all, I didn't say it's not cool and I am sure it will make me better composer as I wrote in my post. I am pretty sure that I won't be dealing with live players anytime soon so I am willing to learn it when it's really necessary. I am just using my virtual instruments in DAW's piano roll. Modern composers like Dirk Ehlert, Alex Pfeffer, Walid Feghali, Arn Andersson, ...etc aren't Berklee graduates or anything and they do just fine writing directly on DAWs and get placements.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 4, 2022)

patrick76 said:


> Mark Petrie has formal training. He studied film scoring at Berklee.


True! Just checked his Wiki and confirmed. Thank you!


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## Snarf (Jan 4, 2022)

Mark Petrie and Cody Still both have a formal education in music. Another example is Thomas Bergersen, who has said he was reading Adler during math classes in school (iirc).

That said, I'd say traditional orchestration books (Adler, RK) are not strictly necessary for producing modern trailer music. TV and especially games music is a different story, though.


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## synergy543 (Jan 4, 2022)

Read a book? Duh...who wants to spend that much time (like, seriously) when you could just kick back on the couch and watch a few courses? (I heard that's how Stravinsky and Prokofiev learned). They just kicked back on the couch and ate piroshkis (Russian Doritos®) while watching Rimsky-Korsakov and Liadov make fools of themselves on the russian zoom channel.

Reading music? That's for geriatric birds silly! 🦃 MIDI Roll is the only way to go! (too many of those little round dots will give you a hangover!.)

Dude, today we have digital technology, DAWs and sick plugins. Be smart and let 'em do the work for u. How do ya think Brian Tyler's net worth gotta be over $30 million? Jus, get yerself some MIDI chords and some beatz, and you'll be knockin the trailer house down in no time. Be sure to get the "Pro-Level" MIDI chords though, their totally dope!

https://web.unison.audio/midi-chord-pack


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 4, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> Read a book? Duh...who wants to spend that much time (like, seriously) when you could just kick back on the couch and watch a few courses? (I heard that's how Stravinsky and Prokofiev learned). They just kicked back on the couch and ate piroshkis (Russian Doritos®) while watching Rimsky-Korsakov and Liadov make fools of themselves on the russian zoom channel.
> 
> Reading music? That's for geriatric birds silly! 🦃 MIDI Roll is the only way to go! (too many of those little round dots will give you a hangover!.)
> 
> ...


You're very silly man lol


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## gamma-ut (Jan 4, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> I can't read music sheets but I am willing to learn it for the sake of understanding orchestration books and be a better composer in general.


Do this first. You can dip in and out of Adler easily enough. Also, with sample libraries unless realism is the driving factor, the range advice may not be that big a factor. For a trailer, you may well want that edge-of-range effect that would permanently injure 80% of performers who try to repeat it live in a symphony and which sounds like an elephant seal dying.

But if you can read chunks of score, you can pick up tips from anywhere. Plus, it's easier to compose multiple lines in parallel using notation than in piano roll IMO (at least before you get into nudging notes and CC automation into place), should you need something that's more counterpointy.


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## d.healey (Jan 4, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> film scoring because obviously it requires a formal education


News to me...


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## JohnG (Jan 4, 2022)

There are lots of ways to learn stuff. I wrote trailer music for at least 12 years, using Adler as a reference for a good bit of that. You dip in, dip out; learn something about strings or winds, or how to bring out a cello melody or something. The music was mostly hybrid stuff, super hyped, but also had live orchestra replacing some or all of the samples.

After a while, I sat down and read Adler all the way through; sometimes it's only when you get your hands on a large orchestra that everything he writes makes sense.

You can avoid reading music for a while, no doubt, but at some point it just helps. And anyway, why not? It's not like you become diseased. There are plenty of good self-taught people out there but that doesn't mean they can't read music.


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## Arbee (Jan 4, 2022)

There is so much to learn, just figure out which element (rhythm, melody, harmony, form, orchestration, sound design etc) is the most important to your musical goals and start there by whatever means suits your learning style. Just start, the rest will follow over the next 50 years or so .

The worst thing perhaps is to find out in 20 years that a bit more formal education would have greatly accelerated your capability and success, and you've been doing it the hard way for all that time.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 4, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> So, for trailer, TV and games music, how important to read lengthy text books like Adler's study of orchestration or Rimsky's principles of orchestration if you just writing for trailers, TV and games? How many successful young composers out there who are not formally trained but know their stuff through practice or whatever method they followed?


You will find a number of composers in this area that do not have formal education - but the bigger question is do YOU want to be a BETTER composer than you are now? If so, you have to put in the work - and part of that work is studying concepts to expand your palette. Even somebody like Christian Henson, who has always said he doesn't come from a formal background, will still promote the orchestration books he keeps nearby as reference. You might not "work with live players" and just want to use your "virtual instruments", but that still benefits immensely from foundational concepts like compositional form, counterpoint, orchestration, and harmony. Everything else that is genre specific can be built upon this.

Here are some suggested materials (much better than most of the "tens of courses" you've taken - trust me, I've also taken them):

- ScoreClub
- The Musician's Guide to Theory and Analysis
- Principles of Orchestration / The Study of Orchestration
- Analyzing Classical Form
- The Secrets of Orchestration
- Score Study - this is not as complicated as it sounds. Start simple, with high-level blobs of understanding what the composer is doing. How is the piece structured? What is the melody or melodies? How has the composer arranged the instruments? Try to write a piece based on similar approaches. Then dive deeper. What is the harmonic approach? How has the composer distributed it across instrument sections? Do you like a particular section or sound? How was it constructed? Now go try to replicate that in a short piece.



MeloKeyz said:


> Modern composers like Dirk Ehlert, Alex Pfeffer, Walid Feghali, Arn Andersson


Aim higher.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 4, 2022)

Very cool guys! OK you won haha
I think I am going to start with these two books: Principle and Study of Orch. as I already ordered them from Amazon. Reading through the last couple of replies encouraged me to go and buy them lol, Thanks @JohnG and @ALittleNightMusic. And yes, I wanna expand my skills and take them to higher levels. Reading notation is not that big deal and it won't take time. These books are going to take time. I think taking one chapter a day while putting it in practice when writing will good in my schedule. I just have to re-schedule priorities


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## JohnG (Jan 4, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> These books are going to take time. I think taking one chapter a day while putting it in practice when writing


The main thing? Keep enjoying music. Keep fanning the fun of it, the excitement. If you are getting bogged down too much with books, listen to something you love.

There is no replacement for inspiration. I've read a lot of books about music and studied it informally and formally, but nothing is as inspiring as hearing something great, whether it's an orchestra or a pile of synthesizers.

So have fun!

And learn to read music...


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## tc9000 (Jan 4, 2022)

I just wanted to say there is a time to roll up your sleeves and get hands on and practical, and there is also a time to step back and get theoretical. I generally go fully hands on until I start getting that feeling... unable / uncomprehending / incapable. Then it's time for more theory.

With the practical approach, you will naturally advance with various strategies like tinkering, trial and error, critical listening, comparitive listiening, etc, etc, until you hit a limit of some sort.

In contrast, missing theoretical knowledge acts as a hard roadblock. Trial and error / tinkering / etc won't get you past it. I personally have a strong aversion to going back to the theory but because I avoid it, I know now to give it a try sooner in the cycle.


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## Jett Hitt (Jan 4, 2022)

I’m going to be the old curmudgeon bastard here. Being a composer who can’t read music is like being a writer who doesn’t know the alphabet. I suppose you could do it, but you’re not ever going to be very good at it. That’s the first step. Then you need to study part writing and harmonic analysis followed by counterpoint and form and analysis. These are the most basic elements of being a composer. Just my two cents.


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## Arbee (Jan 4, 2022)

tc9000 said:


> I just wanted to say there is a time to roll up your sleeves and get hands on and practical, and there is also a time to step back and get theoretical. I generally go fully hands on until I start getting that feeling... unable / uncomprehending / incapable. Then it's time for more theory.


Yes agree, the stages of competence (from Wikipedia) that we all cycle through:

*Unconscious incompetence. *The individual does not understand or know how to do something and 
does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognize their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage. The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.

*Conscious incompetence. *Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, they recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.*

Conscious competence. *The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.

*Unconscious competence. *The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.


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## kevinh (Jan 4, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> (I heard that's how Stravinsky and Prokofiev learned). They just kicked back on the couch and ate piroshkis (Russian Doritos®) while watching Rimsky-Korsakov and Liadov make fools of themselves on the russian zoom channel.


If I’m studying Beethoven would you recommend I snack on Kasnocken instead of piroshkis?


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## synergy543 (Jan 4, 2022)

kevinh said:


> If I’m studying Beethoven would you recommend I snack on Kasnocken instead of piroshkis?


They say Macroni and cheese is the way to go, but Austrian dumplings with cheese might be close enough. 









Beethoven's Favorite Food


According to Anton Schindler’s biography, Beethoven As I Knew Him, one of the composer’s favorite dishes was Macaroni mit Parmesan-Käse. Yes, Beethoven's favorite meal was mac n cheese! When Beethoven was in the middle of one of his marathon composing sessions, he ordered his housekeepers to...




www.monteiromusicstudio.com


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## Al Maurice (Jan 5, 2022)

Music is all about practice, books alone are a great resource but most just cover the theory alone, the best ones have practical examples you can try to learn to overcome the small musical gotchas that can easily trip you up when you start.

I'd suggest spending some time at first learning to read music, before going any further especially if you're interested in any kind of orchestration. The piano roll alone won't cut it, at some point you'll need to create some parts that are playable; unless your intention is for all your pieces to just be played as is.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 5, 2022)

JohnG said:


> The main thing? Keep enjoying music. Keep fanning the fun of it, the excitement. If you are getting bogged down too much with books, listen to something you love.


Exactly @JohnG ! No Worries, I know what you mean by this comment. That's why I said I will take chapter a day ONLY and the rest of the day will be writing in my Cubase, applying what I learned in that theory chapter that day. And actually I write music anyways without books and they sound pretty acceptable and good. I just wanna write harmonies and counterpoints more effectively to sound even more excellent. 

So, welcome to the new level of effort ... I AM READY! BOOOM!


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 5, 2022)

tc9000 said:


> I just wanted to say there is a time to roll up your sleeves and get hands on and practical, and there is also a time to step back and get theoretical. I generally go fully hands on until I start getting that feeling... unable / uncomprehending / incapable. Then it's time for more theory.
> 
> With the practical approach, you will naturally advance with various strategies like tinkering, trial and error, critical listening, comparitive listiening, etc, etc, until you hit a limit of some sort.
> 
> In contrast, missing theoretical knowledge acts as a hard roadblock. Trial and error / tinkering / etc won't get you past it. I personally have a strong aversion to going back to the theory but because I avoid it, I know now to give it a try sooner in the cycle.


What you're saying now @tc9000 was the actual reason I started this thread. If you read this thread's title again, you'll find that it also means: "My current skills are OKAY but I need more ... I feel like I can reach higher". You feel that you improve noticeably but your still not sure. I felt like these courses I took weren't enough and I need more advanced theory to sound ever more bigger and larger than life.

So, maybe this is the time of stepping back and get some theory. I will just have to do this simultaneously with writing because I can't miss a day without composing something or working on something.


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## gamma-ut (Jan 5, 2022)

Personally, I found Alfred Blatter's "Revisiting Music Theory" to be the best no-nonsense introduction to notation and theory. It's not like most of the others, which tend to be structured for music students doing ABRSM or equivalent exams and, so you don't feel like you're moving backwards while picking up the basics. Though you'll have to figure out a way to practice sight reading etc with flash cards, music fragments and the like – the logic of notation is simple enough, the slightly painful bit is practising enough of it each day to get fluent enough to be able to parse an orchestral score without thinking "oh my, that's a lot of notes".


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 5, 2022)

gamma-ut said:


> the slightly painful bit is practising enough of it each day to get fluent enough to be able to parse an orchestral score without thinking "oh my, that's a lot of notes".


It will definitely take time bro. But instead of visualizing notation sheet as punch of lines and spaces in their own, I relate them to the piano keys which makes understanding it easier. And of course it's not wise to look at a complex score when you learn this stuff anyways.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 5, 2022)

@JohnG, I noticed that you read and finished Adler's book. Are there any major changes in 4th edition? I just ordered the 3rd edition without even knowing that there was a 4th edition.


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## JohnG (Jan 5, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> @JohnG, I noticed that you read and finished Adler's book. Are there any major changes in 4th edition? I just ordered the 3rd edition without even knowing that there was a 4th edition.


I own the second edition, which is fine. It came with CDs for the audio, which I like, since you can play them any time you want. I think any edition of Adler will be good.

There are plenty of other orchestration books out there but they are not as good in my view. Commenting on two:

1. Rimsky-Korsakoff is free, online (PDFs) and so that's attractive, but he is writing over 100 years ago and he's way too conservative about what players can execute today.

2. Kennan's book is another favourite of some, but he's far, far too conservative about instrument ranges. It's more as though he were giving advice for a college or municipal orchestra, not studio players who can play the most amazing breadth.

So avoid those two. Adler is my top pick and has proven over and over accurate with studio musicians. Also he adds two ranges in the back, one for pros and one for amateurs. Those are helpful.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 6, 2022)

@JohnG thank you so much for your detailed reply. You're really a gentleman and most respectful member here. I noticed many of your replies and they were always straight to the point.

Thank you again


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## korgoasys (Jan 6, 2022)

*Interersting. I assume you, OP, have been putting the theory from all these courses/tutorials into practise? You can get course oriented (I have in the past) but there is no substitute by having a go. Better to have tried and failed than never have tried at all. Your music will be unique and will develope over time by having a bash. I'm with you.
Patrick*


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## synergy543 (Jan 6, 2022)

MeloKeyz, assumming you're serious (and not trolling us), I would highly suggest that you scrap the Adler orchestration and theory books (for the moment, sorry John, he's not ready yet if he can't read) and focus on learning to read music. Invest $8.99 in yourself and get the John Thompson piano Book 1 and spend a few minutes each day reading through it. Use the Kaizen method of starting slowly and increasing the time you spend each day. Start with just 2 or 3 minutes. Then the next day add a minute or two. Pay careful attention to the timing (use a mentronome) as this will help you when you return to work with orchestral instruments. Follow this recipe and in a few weeks you'll be surprised at how quickly you can advance. Don't be a hot shot and try to learn it all at once. The trick is to learn consistently over time. Let us know how it goes.

If this is too easy for you, use this for sight-reading (and post an mp3 of your sight-reading here), and then move on to the second book, etc. I think you'll find that actually working through these will have immense value.


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## PaulieDC (Jan 6, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> @JohnG, I noticed that you read and finished Adler's book. Are there any major changes in 4th edition? I just ordered the 3rd edition without even knowing that there was a 4th edition.


I vote for Adler's book too, good choice, because it's a great reference to go back to especially when you want to combine instruments or figure out which range of the flute works best for a certain phrase you wrote, etc. Ha, that doesn't even scratch the surface. It's not THE book, it's one of your good tools in the box. So I believe it's a GREAT reference for even trailer music if it's to sound viable. Others will disagree but that's OK, we're humans, not automatons, butting heads makes us think!


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 8, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> Reading your opening post again I realize it’s correct: I didn’t answer your question at all, but instead simply presented a piece of advice. Sorry about that. But it was not meant condescending or anything if that’s what you think, on the contrary. Being a hobbyist myself I have learned to read music sheets through watching Youtube clips and reading tutorials online etc., and back then I remember being relieved to find that it wasn’t hard to learn at all. Therefore I wanted to communicate this to you in order to show my support and encouragment for you to take on the task of learning this reading music sheet stuff. Because I know it’s a super useful skill to have when you want to make music - including trailer music and so on. I should have taken more time to read your opening post so I would have understood what your question was, and then write my reply in a manner you’d find helpful.


Thanks a lot @Henrik B. Jensen for taking the time to reply. I am grateful to that and I appreciate it sir.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 8, 2022)

korgoasys said:


> *Interersting. I assume you, OP, have been putting the theory from all these courses/tutorials into practise? You can get course oriented (I have in the past) but there is no substitute by having a go. Better to have tried and failed than never have tried at all. Your music will be unique and will develope over time by having a bash. I'm with you.
> Patrick*


Yes @korgoasys I did put them into practice and they work very good. These courses covered lots of stuff really. From knowing all instruments' registers to motifs for melody writing to voice leading for good sounding harmonies to countermelodies to counterpoints to instrumentation to orchestrating your selected instruments to arrangement in DAW to mixing and mastering. In my view, these courses (despite their long hours and detailed topics) were a quick way to stand on your feet and I feel my skills somehow stopped at certain level that seems I couldn't get past that level. This means that I need something more, or maybe more academically advanced? ... I mean there are books for each topic. A book in counterpoint which makes me feel that I knew nothing about counterpoint.

But the thing is, practical is the most important element. I remember a composer (don't exactly remember if it was Bergersen or another one) said that you can have all the theory in the world but still can't write if you don't practice writing. He added also that this means that you can achieve that massive Hollywood sound if you have the basics and even if you can't read music but know how harmonize and write memorable melodies. Finally, read the quoted paragraph from Dan Graham book about reading music for trailer composers. And I was very shocked that he exactly said what I said earlier in this thread.

Bottom line, I am not against reading music but I am 42 yrs now. I just joined the game late and I don't have the strength and time to study something academic (let's be honest, reading music is very academic) after all these years. But again, I am reading Adler's anyways and of course it's overwhelming in the beginning.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jan 8, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Yes @korgoasys I did put them into practice and they work very good. These courses covered lots of stuff really. From knowing all instruments' registers to motifs for melody creation to voice leading for good sounding harmonies to countermelodies to counterpoints to instrumentation to orchestrating your selected instruments to arrangement in DAW to mixing and mastering. In my view, these courses (despite their long hours and detailed topics) were a quick way to stand on your feet and I feel my skills somehow stopped at certain level that seems I couldn't get past that level. This means that I need something more, or maybe more academically advanced? ... I mean there are books for each topic. A book in counterpoint which makes me feel that I knew nothing about counterpoint.
> 
> But the thing is, practical is the most important element. I remember a composer (don't exactly remember if it was Bergersen or another one) said that you can have all the theory in the world but still can't write if you don't practice writing. He added also that this means that you can achieve that massive Hollywood sound if you have the basics and even if you can't read music but know how harmonize and write memorable melodies. Finally, read the quoted paragraph from Dan Graham book about reading music for trailer composers. And I was very shocked that he exactly said what I said earlier in this thread.
> 
> Bottom line, I am not against reading music but I am 42 yrs now. I just joined the game late and I don't have the strength and time to study something academic (let's be honest, reading music is very academic) after all these years. But again, I am reading Adler's anyways and of course it's overwhelming in the beginning.


Welcome my friend! Awesome to have you here. I love how music doesn't have any limits, you can really write and appreciate music at any age. But yes, I'm definitely for courses and online education, as I've benefitted from them myself when starting out. Books can also be wonderful, but I think require instant application, or else it's very easy to forget their teachings. All in all, simply writing and arranging yourself is the most effective way to learn, absolutely!


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 8, 2022)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Welcome my friend! Awesome to have you here. I love how music doesn't have any limits, you can really write and appreciate music at any age. But yes, I'm definitely for courses and online education, as I've benefitted from them myself when starting out. Books can also be wonderful, but I think require instant application, or else it's very easy to forget their teachings. All in all, simply writing and arranging yourself is the most effective way to learn, absolutely!


Your CMC course helped me a lot too Chris. Ladies and Gentlemen I forgot to mention Chris's course too. My bad


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jan 8, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Your CMC course helped me a lot too Chris. Ladies and Gentlemen I forgot to mention Chris's course too. My bad


Oh no not at all haha! Thank you, I'm very happy you found it helpful.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 8, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> MeloKeyz, assumming you're serious (and not trolling us), I would highly suggest that you scrap the Adler orchestration and theory books (for the moment, sorry John, he's not ready yet if he can't read) and focus on learning to read music. Invest $8.99 in yourself and get the John Thompson piano Book 1 and spend a few minutes each day reading through it. Use the Kaizen method of starting slowly and increasing the time you spend each day. Start with just 2 or 3 minutes. Then the next day add a minute or two. Pay careful attention to the timing (use a mentronome) as this will help you when you return to work with orchestral instruments. Follow this recipe and in a few weeks you'll be surprised at how quickly you can advance. Don't be a hot shot and try to learn it all at once. The trick is to learn consistently over time. Let us know how it goes.
> 
> If this is too easy for you, use this for sight-reading (and post an mp3 of your sight-reading here), and then move on to the second book, etc. I think you'll find that actually working through these will have immense value.



Thanks a lot @synergy543 .. you're sweet man when you're serious now haha. Before, I was scared.


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## synergy543 (Jan 9, 2022)

MeloKeyz said:


> Thanks a lot @synergy543 .. you're sweet man when you're serious now haha. Before, I was scared.


My wife would agree with you I think (she's still with me). Seriously though, I gave it quite a lot of thought and if you really want to take action to address your situation, I really can't think of a better way other than maybe getting a private teacher. Studying on your own though, you can quickly learn to read and this piano book series is very good (IMO). I learned on them as an older student as well. I was a flamenco guitarist who didn't read traditional music but wanted to study music in college. So at age 15, each week I would sit with these little 4 and 5 year old kids (feeling like an absolute idiot) waiting for my piano lesson. After two years or so, I learned enough piano to get into local college music classes and later transferred to USC.

Another suggestion would be to get a notation program and start writing in that. Sibelius + NotePerformer (NP) is great, as is Dorico+NP. This is relatively inexpensive and will give you amazing ability to both write your own scores as well as do score study. Its quite amazing how much you can learn transcribing just a few scores (or sections of scores or even just simple piano pieces). Combined with Adler, and learning to read basic music, you'll have an incredible toolset that Beethoven or Tchaikovsky would have died for.


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## MeloKeyz (Jan 9, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> My wife would agree with you I think (she's still with me)


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