# Dithering in Cubase 5



## alligatorlizard (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi,

Quick question - I understand Cubase 5 features dithering - cannot find on/off options anywhere, so is this automatic? ie If my project is 24 bit and I'm bouncing down to 16 bit is dithering automatically applied?

I'm asking because I'm currently mastering some tracks using Ozone 4 - this has (apparently very good) dithering, but I don't want to be dithering twice!


----------



## RiffWraith (Feb 26, 2011)

I am not familiar w/Ozone - if that has dithering, you can probably use that, but being that I have never used it, cant vouch for it. 

If not using Ozone, use the native dither. On the master bus, go to *Edit Op Ch Settings* - the e - and insert the mastering UV22HR plug. Select Hi (if not already) and 16. Make sure that 16 bit is selected in the Export Audio dial box. You are good to go.

Cheers.


----------



## Dietz (Feb 26, 2011)

I'm a Nuendo-user, which should be pretty similar to Cubase. Bit depth reduction from 24 to 16 bit isn't dithered automatically. The included Apogee Dither (UV22) should be used for the job.

HTH,


----------



## José Herring (Feb 26, 2011)

As Dietz mentioned you should use the UV22 for dithering. Put it in slot 7 or 8 across the master buss. Then when you export or mixdown your files set the export to 16bit 44k(or 48k).


----------



## Rob Elliott (Feb 27, 2011)

Hey guys - of late I have been delivering my finals as 48K/24 bit. In Nuendo it is in 32 bit float - I haven't been dithering to 24 bit. Do you see any issues with this?

When I was dithering -- I used the voxengo 'Elephant' utility to set the limiter at -.02 - just to be sure of no transients and the gauss dithering tool (24 bit). I have never used the UV22 tool (no reasons really.)


Thanks for any input / suggestions.


----------



## José Herring (Feb 27, 2011)

Not quite sure Rob, but it seems to me that you're talking a little bit about apples vs. oranges. 32bit float is what Cubendo uses to calculate the signal path internally. It's how the program handles the signal internally. 

I believe what the original poster is talking about is he has a 24bit file that needs to be dithered down to 16bit. For me whenever I have this situation then I dither. Usually by importing the 24bit file into an open project then exporting through the uv22 to a 16bit file. Deitz method doing it off line is one that I think may even be better.

But, i can't see any benefit of dithering if you've already mixed down to the desired format. And, for some reason I don't think it matters in that case if Cubase/Nuedo is at 32bit floating. I could be wrong though.

Jose


----------



## Rob Elliott (Feb 27, 2011)

josejherring @ Sun Feb 27 said:


> Not quite sure Rob, but it seems to me that you're talking a little bit about apples vs. oranges. 32bit float is what Cubendo uses to calculate the signal path internally. It's how the program handles the signal internally.
> 
> I believe what the original poster is talking about is he has a 24bit file that needs to be dithered down to 16bit. For me whenever I have this situation then I dither. Usually by importing the 24bit file into an open project then exporting through the uv22 to a 16bit file. Deitz method doing it off line is one that I think may even be better.
> 
> ...




Ok thanks Jose. For sure I can see the need to dither from 24 to 16 and yes doing it as Dietz suggests seems logical.

All the best,


----------



## Dietz (Feb 28, 2011)

germancomponist @ Sun Feb 27 said:


> Dietz @ Sun Feb 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, like Jose suggests - but you could also apply dither to the file(s) offline, just before converting them to 16 bit.
> ...



Because you can do it unguarded on a bunch of files, and it's simply faster than real time export.


----------



## germancomponist (Feb 28, 2011)

Ah thanks, then for sure it makes a lot of sence.


----------



## alligatorlizard (Feb 28, 2011)

Thanks for the advice - sounds like I can use Ozone's dithering without fear of dithering twice.

On a more general note, does dithering really make that much difference? Till now I've just been exporting from 24bit projects to 16bit files without applying any dithering. To be honest, I can't hear much difference... Is there anything I should listen out for specifically?


----------



## José Herring (Feb 28, 2011)

I would add though that I run at 24bit 44.1k. If I have to mix down to 16 bit I will put the dither plugin to mixdown to 16 bit for a project. but, that so rarely happens.

Jose


----------



## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 8, 2011)

Hello Dithers 

Here you can find some information (theory) about dither and acoustic attempt to show the difference between "with and without Dither".
http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/vi-tips--tricks-1/index.php#53248297b4001f515 

All the best

Beat Kaufmann


----------



## nickhmusic (Mar 10, 2011)

Rob Elliott @ Sun Feb 27 said:


> Hey guys - of late I have been delivering my finals as 48K/24 bit. In Nuendo it is in 32 bit float - I haven't been dithering to 24 bit. Do you see any issues with this?
> 
> When I was dithering -- I used the voxengo 'Elephant' utility to set the limiter at -.02 - just to be sure of no transients and the gauss dithering tool (24 bit). I have never used the UV22 tool (no reasons really.)
> 
> ...



Hey Rob, to answer your question, I often have the Oxford Limiter on my master buss in Cubase, which applies 24-bit flat dither (TPDF).

I've also gone straight from the 32-bit float project (I too work at 32bit float/48K) to 24bit/48K export without any dithering. I don't think there is a recognisable difference between 32bit/48K down to 24/48 without dither vs. dithering flat. 

I just prefer doing it I guess - voodoo and old habits etc. :D


----------

