# Pianos that inspire



## chillbot (Sep 7, 2018)

Today I bought Orange Tree Evolution Rosewood Grand and Art Vista Malmsjo.

I also got Pianoteq Electric Pianos, and as such was able to demo all of their pianos, none of which did a ton for me.

I have a ton of pianos that do piano. I have Ivory which to me is the piano that does the best "piano" but I'm probably biased as it's been my piano for 15+ years.

HZ Piano is nice in the high end, nice and sparkly, I love it for that. But that's about all I use it for.

I've never been a huge fan of Piano in Blue, or Alicia's Keys, or any of the NI pianos, I have all of them.

The Rosewood has a nice warm low end that I love. Malmsjo is surprisingly dark and moody, to me. Maybe a bit too much so.

Obviously I'm a piano player, I am looking for pianos that have a magical "feel" that just inspire you to play them. Must also include super-low latency.

My top 3 are Emotional Piano, Olafur Arnold's Felt Piano, and Woodchester Piano. Honorable mention to Una Corda. They are all great in their own ways.

I looked at Embertone's 1955 Steinway, wasn't feeling it. From the demos at least.

So it sounds like I have everything... but wondering if there's another piano out there like Emotional or Woodchester that I've missed?

I love the way each 'colored' piano inspires you to play it a certain way. That's what I'm looking for.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 7, 2018)

Quantum Leap Pianos sound wonderful. Ivory is a little brighter and less round - which isn't better or worse, just a different sound. More like Chick Corea.

I also like Malmsjo a lot.

But really, I start playing any of the good sampled pianos and get lost in the wilderness. I'm a keyboard-as-tool player, though, not a real pianist.


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## Leon Portelance (Sep 7, 2018)

I like Waves Factory Mercury piano. My mixing engineer likes it too.


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## CT (Sep 7, 2018)

Unless I want the super soft/felt sound, I use Soniccouture's Hammersmith for almost everything. It's fairly neutral, character-wise, but I've stumbled across lots of nice ideas with it and it seems to fit in wherever I ask it to go.


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## LLGen (Sep 7, 2018)

I’m a big fan of Emotional Piano, too. Have you tried their Montclairion Hall Piano, Chillbot? I find it quite reactive when I’m playing on my weighted keyboard.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 7, 2018)

Ivory II American Concert D is my absolute favourite with reverb provided by Spaces II.

I've now stopped looking for other pianos. (Also the Ivory II upright collection is fantastic for me as I also play a ton of Boogie Woogie, Blues and old time Rock'n''Roll).


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## Francis Bourre (Sep 7, 2018)

It looks like we share some piano tastes, and it's rare... Ivory American D is my favorite, and... That's it.
I bought many others (even tried pianoteq), and every time I was kind of super disappointed because I could not feel the subjective pleasure of a convinced piano performance.

I got few (and very personal) outsiders, because like you I like warm/lively sounds.
- 8dio 1985 Passionate Piano (I got all the 8dio, but I just use this one and the 1990 prepared), dry with dynamic velocity, very warmy with the right play and settings.
- Embertone 1955 Binaural mic soft velocity for soft piano beds. Cannot use this one for real play, it sounds thin with high velocity and notes attack/release sounds weird with fast détaché play.
- Imperfect Samples Steinway: I just use the noises from this one that I stack with other piano sounds.
- Hans Zimmer piano: I just use harmonics patch for random harmonics shimmering.

Btw, I never bought any Art Vista piano, do some people would recommend one piano in particular? I'm searching for pianos with identity but with playing consistency as well. I really like the wine and roses demo spirit of the VG3, but I'm also interested by the sonic characteristics of the Supergrand in thirteed nights demo, and I also liked few demos of the Malmsjö, but on this one I'm afraid about some resonance in the medium register.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 7, 2018)

Well I did try Pianoteq, and it left me a bit cold. Don't know why, but it just did. It is certainly an impressive achievement, and there are a lot of people on here whose opinions I really respect love it, but it's not for me, at least not yet....

I'd love to get back the SSD space that Ivory II takes up, but every time I try something else, I just end up going back to the D, and have no desire to wander off. 

I've bought a few other libraries, but they get no real use. 

It must be love....


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## SoundChris (Sep 7, 2018)

I also got tons of Pianos - about 15 or 20 and do stil like embertone's 1955 walker and QL Pianos Platinum most.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Sep 8, 2018)

The Acoustic Samples yamaha has a nice sound when you play around with the 3 microphone setups to make it sound fuller, rounder, warmer, intimate,etc...

The feed the good old ‘playability’ disussion, but then related to your post topic: I enjoy the recording 3 preset from the grotrian in pianoteq 6 but then add ew spaces with a piano venue to taste and experiment with tape sims, or any saturation plugins on top to find a warmer feeling to make especially the midrange of pianoteq sound more attractive.
And I am still experimenting but because the sound improves, and the playability nuances stay using pianoteq, there is an added ‘sparkle’ to playing something with much more enthusiasm.

A friend of mine uses the uno corda together with american grand from the ‘labs’ guys, and gets fairly good results too. Even without hearing that its 2 pianos on top of each other.


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## AmbientMile (Sep 8, 2018)

Not a grand piano, but whenever I am at a loss for ideas I fire up Sampletekk Rain Piano. It never fails to inspire me.


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## zadillo (Sep 8, 2018)

Check out the Whole Sounds 1954 Baldwin:

https://www.wholesounds.com/1954-baldwin-parlor-grand/


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## CGR (Sep 8, 2018)

chillbot said:


> Today I bought Orange Tree Evolution Rosewood Grand and Art Vista Malmsjo.
> 
> I also got Pianoteq Electric Pianos, and as such was able to demo all of their pianos, none of which did a ton for me.
> 
> ...


Sampled pianos which inspire me to play and discover new ideas (in no particular order):

– ArtVista Malmsjo (Swedish Grand) & VGP 3.0 (1960's era Steinway B) - never fail to inspire ideas for me.
– EWQL Steinway, Bosendorfer & Bechstein (something about the depth they captured - playability a little 'jumpy')
– Chocolate Audio's Italian made Steinbach Upright Piano (my new go-to upright)
– Embertone's 1955 Concert D (Steinway)
– Impact Soundworks Pearl Concert Grand - Yamaha C7 - (version 2.0 about to be released)
– Sampletekk Black (Ambient mic set) - a Hamburg Steinway D sampled in a Swedish concert hall
– Wholesounds 1954 Baldwin Parlour Grand (real & raw & honest - great in a mix too)
– Production Voices Production Grand (Yamaha C7) - fantastically dynamic, responsive & flexible 'studio' grand
– Soniccouture's Hammersmith (New York Steinway D) a customised preset I made (default sounds a little thin/harsh)
– 8dio's 1928 & 1969 Steinways (I love certain vintage pianos - very different from modern manufactured pianos. The quality of the frame/rim & soundboard timbers used in many of these older quality-brand pianos are very hard to come by these days).

Many others I use for certain roles, or qualities that fit particular tracks, but the above pianos are the ones I call up in the early development/inspiration-seeking stage. For playability and response/nuance closest to a real acoustic piano, my vote goes to Pianoteq (Steinway B & Steingraeber in particular). Realism/character of tone is a contentious point with Pianoteq, but I am amazed at their achievements & development over the years, and each new model brings another level of realism - an impressive achievement.


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## scoringdreams (Sep 8, 2018)

Try the Garritan CFX Concert Grand?

I personally find it pretty versatile and inspiring.


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## CGR (Sep 8, 2018)

scoringdreams said:


> Try the Garritan CFX Concert Grand?
> 
> I personally find it pretty versatile and inspiring.


I agree - I overlooked that one! Due to the massive size of the full version, I have it on a separate external hard drive, so tend to neglect it, but a stellar sampled piano, and the natural, airy ambience of Abbey Roads Studio One means that additional reverb if often not necessary. Great sampled piano!


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## chocobitz825 (Sep 8, 2018)

I'd say my biggest surprises came from 8Dio's various vintage pianos and VI Labs Ravenscroft 275.


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## HardyP (Sep 8, 2018)

chillbot said:


> I looked at Embertone's 1955 Steinway, wasn't feeling it. From the demos at least.


To be honest, I wasn't shure, neither... especially since I am quite covered with all the EWQL Pianos, SI Emotional, Rosewood, TruePianos (for lightweight sketching). But hey, as always GAS took me over, and I bought the standard version (full features, 1 mic).
And man - fortunately, I did that!! I started with the more "lightweight" patches, but you HAVE to try out the "heavy" ones with all the velocities, and THEN came the magic to me: From all of my piano VIs, I got the most inspiration out of it!

Ok, and now since I reminded myself to that beauty - let´s fire up Kontakt and make some music !


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## Fleer (Sep 8, 2018)

Lots of pianos here too, preferring Embertone Walker, Bechstein Digital Grand, WholeSounds Baldwin, Wavesfactory Mercury, OrangeTreeSamples Rosewood and ImpactSoundworks Pearl. Add those Pianoteq grands for individuality and playability. There’s also CineSamples. They’ve got a new and sweet CinePiano, but I also love their Piano-in-Blue, sampled from the one used on Glenn Gould’s Goldberg Variations and Miles Davis’ Kind of Blue.


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## sinkd (Sep 8, 2018)

For studio/jazz stuff I am really digging Keyscape's Yamaha grand.


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## CGR (Sep 8, 2018)

sinkd said:


> For studio/jazz stuff I am really digging Keyscape's Yamaha grand.


If you like that, check out (if you haven't already):
– Production Voices Production Grand Yamaha C7
– Acoustic Samples Yamaha C7
– Big Swing Grand (Yamaha C6) - http://www.bigswingface.com/sample-page/grand-piano/
– Acoustic Samples Kawai EX Pro


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## Mike Fox (Sep 8, 2018)

Imperfect Samples


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 8, 2018)

Just been playing Embertone Walker.
It's an absolute beauty. I love it. The warmth, the detail. Getting into whirling fanboy territory here but I think it's wonderful.


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## SchnookyPants (Sep 8, 2018)

Fleer said:


> .......... Piano-in-Blue, sampled from the one used on Glenn Gould’s Goldberg Variations and Miles Davis’ Kind of Blue.



SAME piano?!! Whoa, interesting. Was not aware of that.


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## AllanH (Sep 8, 2018)

For solo/up-front piano, my two favorites are Pianoteq's Bluetner and the Garritan CFX

For deeper in the mix, I find the new pianoteq Steingraeber E-272 a very good fit.

Playability is excellent, imo, on all three.


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## Nao Gam (Sep 8, 2018)

Every piano is inspiring if you're drunk enough


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## Fleer (Sep 8, 2018)

And then there’s Soundiron’s Drunken Piano.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 8, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Just been playing Embertone Walker.
> It's an absolute beauty. I love it. The warmth, the detail. Getting into whirling fanboy territory here but I think it's wonderful.



+1, but the Chocolate Audio pianos are also very good.


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## agarner32 (Sep 8, 2018)

Mason and Hamlin BB.


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 8, 2018)

Nao Gam said:


> Every piano is inspiring if you're drunk enough


I've heard of beer goggles but beer-phones?


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## Nao Gam (Sep 8, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> I've heard of beer goggles but beer-phones?


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## chillbot (Sep 8, 2018)

Wow what a list. Shows what I know, I half expected half the responses would be "wtf chillbot you already have all the pianos".

My electricity is being shut off momentarily at the studio but now I have quite a list to go through tomorrow thanks. At the top of the list I'm intrigued by Soundiron Montclarion and 8dio Passionate Piano.

Funny about 8dio though... all the recent sales has got me thinking there's no point in ever paying full price for anything at 8dio. I think that's a bit of a negative side effect of constant sales.


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## SchnookyPants (Sep 8, 2018)

Although I've been playing piano 'forever', I guess I'm not as sophisticated as you guys - likely from all those years playing blues on Chicago's Southside in the '60's (on pianos you wouldn't believe). But I'm still very comfortable 'on' my Galaxy Vintage D. Hey, if that Steinway was good enough for Corea and Jarrett...


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## SoNowWhat? (Sep 8, 2018)

Here’s the other thing (at the risk of stating the bleeding obvious). I can only compare the VIs I have. It’s quite possible that you already have something that I’d consider better than my best if I got my hands on it. Makes it tricky to navigate.


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## Parsifal666 (Sep 8, 2018)

The Embertone sure is nice, but my Garritan CFX, NI Gentleman, and OTMA pianos have been working terrifically. Especially the CFX. I even use the Garritan Steinway now and again.

If I could only chose one, I wouldn't hesitate on the CFX (full version only).


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## AllanH (Sep 8, 2018)

As a "pianist", I think the controller makes a huge difference in how I connect with a particular instrument. I use a graded hammer action keyboard, and for that Pianoteq responds exactly as I would expect. 

A few years ago, I had a synth-action controller and I found that impossible to play for piano: everything was somehow "off" and thus frustrating. I gave up and bought the graded hammer action controller.

For me, the controller action is/was a huge factor in playability.


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## SchnookyPants (Sep 8, 2018)

AllanH said:


> As a "pianist", I think the controller makes a huge difference in how I connect with a particular instrument. I use a graded hammer action keyboard, and for that Pianoteq responds exactly as I would expect.
> 
> A few years ago, I had a synth-action controller and I found that impossible to play for piano: everything was somehow "off" and thus frustrating. I gave up and bought the graded hammer action controller.
> 
> For me, the controller action is/was a huge factor in playability.



Allan - And exactly which keyboard/controller is it that made the difference for you?


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## PaulBrimstone (Sep 8, 2018)

@chillbot, I also have a ridiculously oversized piano collection, and my tastes seem to hew fairly closely to yours, especially re. Piano in Blue (ho hum, although I know it has a huge following) and HZP (capable of a lot with some experimentation). You might also look at the inexpensive Light & Sound Concert Grand, which while a work in progress that still needs several fixes, has an interesting selection of mics offering a lot of variation. The Bechstein Digital Grand has given me good results, despite being a CPU hog. But most of all, I'd urge you to take another look at the Pianoteq demos. Out of the box, none really sport the Emotional/Malmo vibe you're after, but assuming you have the standard edition or better, try playing around with the sometimes overwhelming array of settings and I think you'll be surprised what can be coaxed to life. Plus, all those fabulous historical pianos are the icing on the cake IMO. One trick I use is to layer one of the Pianoteqs—say the Steingraeber—with the three fx layers of the Woodchester, minus the raw layer. Lots of sonic possibilities there...


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## AllanH (Sep 8, 2018)

SchnookyPants said:


> Allan - And exactly which keyboard/controller is it that made the difference for you?



The keybed is a Fatar TP40L (L means light). My controller is a Kurzweil PC3LE8. I believe the TP40L is used in many higher-end Kurzweil keyboards, including the Forte and PC3 lines. It's also used (I believe), in Doepher LMK4/2 products and Nord piano keyboards. Probably many others. I'm not sure if Kurzweil has made any substantial modifications to the keybed.

For me, the Kurzweil reacts exactly as I would expect/like, and I'm very happy with the speed of the key-return and key-weighting.

The synth-action keyboard was an M-audio 88-keystation velocity-sensitive, semi-weighted. This was obviously a low-end keyboard and may explain my inability to play it.


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## Saxer (Sep 8, 2018)

For playability and in pop context I still use the old Truepianos (the Atlantis module).
http://www.truepianos.com/demos.php

Electric piano, also for playability (it's the only track that is in all my templates and even in empty songs - it's my to go sketching sound)
https://www.applied-acoustics.com/lounge-lizard-ep-4/

I'm not a piano player but both feel like coming directly from the keyboard instead from a remote controlled computer.

For sound reasons: Imperfectsamples Fazioli (inside mics) for intimate cinematic.
Keyscape for Rhodes and Clavinets. Scarbee for 'dirty' Rhodes.


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## RCsound (Sep 8, 2018)

Imperfect Samples Braunschweig Upright (amazing), QL Pianos, and you can't go wrong with Spectrasonics Keyscapes, you can load it in Omnispgere to tweak the sound more.


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## klavaus (Sep 8, 2018)

Be sure to try vsl Yamaha CFX.


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## Casiquire (Sep 8, 2018)

I know you've already tried Pianoteq, but it really is very inspiring...there's even a "random" button that gives you a brand new instrument every time. Took me a minute to warm up to Pianoteq myself but what really changed my view of it was the discovery of the Condition slider at the bottom. By default it's set at "mint" condition, but I've never in my life heard a real piano that sounds like that, even freshly minted. Around 75-85% starts to sound real and despite being synthesized it gets some character too.


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## Parsifal666 (Sep 8, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> I know you've already tried Pianoteq, but it really is very inspiring...there's even a "random" button that gives you a brand new instrument every time. Took me a minute to warm up to Pianoteq myself but what really changed my view of it was the discovery of the Condition slider at the bottom. By default it's set at "mint" condition, but I've never in my life heard a real piano that sounds like that, even freshly minted. Around 75-85% starts to sound real and despite being synthesized it gets some character too.



Hmm, this sounds good. I'm also interested in their harp.


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## Wally Garten (Sep 8, 2018)

Saxer said:


> Electric piano, also for playability (it's the only track that is in all my templates and even in empty songs - it's my to go sketching sound)
> https://www.applied-acoustics.com/lounge-lizard-ep-4/
> 
> [...]
> ...



Oh, man, if we're talking EPs, I recently got the Canterbury Suitcase from SonicCouture and I LOVE it. Very warm and present.


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## Fleer (Sep 8, 2018)

Back to OP’s request, don’t judge Embertone’s Walker based on YouTube. You have to try all six mic positions and only then decide which one(s) work(s) for you. If you’re asking for color and character, a huge part of what you like is in your head. Very personal indeed.


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## chillbot (Sep 8, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Embertone’s Walker


EACH mic position is ~34GB. Wow.



Fleer said:


> And then there’s Soundiron’s Drunken Piano.


Downloading.



LLGen said:


> Have you tried their Montclairion Hall Piano, Chillbot?


Downloading.


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## chillbot (Sep 8, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> I know you've already tried Pianoteq, but it really is very inspiring...


People that love pianoteq REALLY LOVE pianoteq, I've found. I just don't think it's for me. And to be clear I'm not looking for more pianos that sound like pianos I'm looking for pianos that have an interesting combination of sonic character and playability that just make my hands do happy hand dances. I'm sure pianoteq is that for some but I'm not getting it.


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## PaulBrimstone (Sep 8, 2018)

chillbot said:


> People that love pianoteq REALLY LOVE pianoteq, I've found. I just don't think it's for me. And to be clear I'm not looking for more pianos that sound like pianos I'm looking for pianos that have an interesting combination of sonic character and playability that just make my hands do happy hand dances. I'm sure pianoteq is that for some but I'm not getting it.


Well, you asked...


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## chillbot (Sep 8, 2018)

PaulBrimstone said:


> Well, you asked...


Asked and answered and much appreciated.

I love the sound of the 8dio Passionate Piano but as mentioned, 8dio has trained me to never pay full price for anything.

And now I'm thinking that with the response about the Embertone Walker piano I should re-consider that but the sheer size of it is very off-putting to me. Does anyone think there's any use in trying the "lite" version (*only* 12GB)?


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## PaulBrimstone (Sep 8, 2018)

chillbot said:


> Asked and answered and much appreciated.
> 
> I love the sound of the 8dio Passionate Piano but as mentioned, 8dio has trained me to never pay full price for anything.
> 
> And now I'm thinking that with the response about the Embertone Walker piano I should re-consider that but the sheer size of it is very off-putting to me. Does anyone think there's any use in trying the "lite" version (*only* 12GB)?



You know, despite all the time spent (wasted?) on these virtual pianos, I also miked up my Yamaha U1 and I've never been happier, really. Dunno why we bother with the imitations. Okay, the VIs are easier, but there’s nothing like the real thing reverberating under your fingers. Pianos, too.


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## Fleer (Sep 8, 2018)

Embertone Walker Lite is worth its low price but, of course, has fewer velocities and only standard AKG mic positions.


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## Fleer (Sep 8, 2018)

chillbot said:


> People that love pianoteq REALLY LOVE pianoteq, I've found. I just don't think it's for me. And to be clear I'm not looking for more pianos that sound like pianos I'm looking for pianos that have an interesting combination of sonic character and playability that just make my hands do happy hand dances. I'm sure pianoteq is that for some but I'm not getting it.


Demo the Steingraeber E-272. 
That’s a very special grand, considered the best by many, but especially its Mozart Rail and sordino options make for its unique character.


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## CGR (Sep 8, 2018)

chillbot said:


> Asked and answered and much appreciated.
> 
> I love the sound of the 8dio Passionate Piano but as mentioned, 8dio has trained me to never pay full price for anything.
> 
> And now I'm thinking that with the response about the Embertone Walker piano I should re-consider that but the sheer size of it is very off-putting to me. Does anyone think there's any use in trying the "lite" version (*only* 12GB)?


At $39 the Lite version is a real bargain, and I'm glad to have it in my collection. Lite has 12 velocity layers and a good all-purpose mic perspective (AKG C414 XLS, ORTF Stereo just outside the rim, so a nice mix of hammer attack & a bit of room ambience). 

I haven't had the feeling I should have gone for the full version & extra mic sets, but then again I have plenty of other multi-mic perspective sampled pianos. Although . . . I am curious about how the full 36 velocity version feels & responds compared to the 12 velocity Lite version (which is very impressive anyway) and the full version adds real una corda samples too!


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## Fleer (Sep 8, 2018)

Night and day, CGR, night and day


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## CGR (Sep 8, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Night and day, CGR, night and day


Ahhhhhhh . . . .


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## LamaRose (Sep 8, 2018)

@chillbot Have you tried the ribbon mic on the Ólafur felt? Has a real Nils Frahm vibe to it... something different. I haven't gotten it yet, but I thought the Sonixinema London Boyd has a unique upright vibe. Any feedback here on that would be cool.

But really, man, I think you may be asking the wrong question. Maybe you should chill on a couch/recliner and then ask yourself: how was my childhood? was it a happy childhood? did I like my mother? 

It worked for me anyway, and I discovered that I was always searching for the sound of that old out-of-tune upright my Mom had, and the hours of fun I had not really learning how to play a piano... yet loving to play nonetheless. CH's freebie - The Playel - is perfectly out-of-tune and note-perfect for me.


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## Fleer (Sep 8, 2018)

Where did you find that CH freebie?


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## tmm (Sep 8, 2018)

miket said:


> Unless I want the super soft/felt sound, I use Soniccouture's Hammersmith for almost everything. It's fairly neutral, character-wise, but I've stumbled across lots of nice ideas with it and it seems to fit in wherever I ask it to go.



+1 on that. I also have way too many piano libraries, but I use Hammersmith for just about everything. I also like 8Dio's Studio Upright, too, for a really good light touch piano, and SoundDust Ship's Piano for something with a different sort of character

Agreed w CGR, too... the Hammersmith default sounds a little stiff / flat for me, but there's a lot of great tones that come from tweaking.


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## SchnookyPants (Sep 8, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Where did you find that CH freebie?


I never before heard of it, but this looks like it... https://www.spitfireaudio.com/editorial/features/christians-grand-piano-gets-felted/


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## Tice (Sep 8, 2018)

If I'm just talking sampled pianos, I used to only have VSl's Bosendorfer Imperial, which I honestly really disliked. I wanted something a bit more indulgent so I went for HZP, and I've never needed any other sampled piano. That said, I grew up playing on a Bluthner piano who's sound I just know through and through. No matter how great other pianos might be, I'll never be quite as attached to their sound as I am to my Bluthner...


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## jmvideo (Sep 8, 2018)

The bottom line is that all piano libraries suck, and at this point it looks like they always will. All of us are always impressed whenever a new piano library is released, thinking.... ooooooh, this could be the one! Then we play it for a while, and ultimately realize it still sounds like samples. It never sounds juuuust right. (Pianoteq fanbois... this means you too, sorry.)

Recently I pulled up a piano recording I made in 1995 with my Kurzweil K2000 and a 16MB (yes, that's right - megabytes) Steinway library. My jaw dropped at how good it sounded. It actually sounded better than all these multi-gigabyte libraries I've been buying for the past 20 years.

I've been bamboozled. You've been bamboozled.

Solution... get a Kurzweil K2000 and the 16MB Steinway Grand, or a real piano and some really good microphones. Ok not a great solution.... but...

Seriously folks.. there's a reason why people like Hans Zimmer and Olafur Arnalds would never use their own sponsored sample libraries on their own records.

This of course spawns a much broader and controversial topic: Sample Libraries Have Plateaued.

(cue dramatic music swell)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 8, 2018)

Sampling may well have plateaued, but to me piano is one of the things sampling does very well. It's not the same thing as a real piano in a room, of course, and no pianist will ever be happy with samples. But on a recording, good samples sound a whole lot better than a real piano that isn't really good - which I wouldn't say of most instruments.

I lose track of which Kurzweil piano is which, but the old new and improved one in my K2500 does a good Dave Grusin sound in its upper register. The other registers are horribly brittle, and any good modern piano library utterly kicks its ass.

That's the main reason I don't even have audio cables connected to my K2500X - I just use it as a controller. Too many great instruments reside in my Mac.

Now, the piano in the old Kurzweil K250 - my procrastinated resuscitation project - sounds great... as long as you only need its one velocity layer. That's the thing: there's far more variation in modern libraries with all those samples.


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## tmhuud (Sep 8, 2018)

You have a K2500 eh Nick? Nice. I had a rack mount Kurzweil 1000PX. Lovely piano sound. I miss that baby. Had an interesting Cello too.


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## Parsifal666 (Sep 9, 2018)

jmvideo said:


> The bottom line is that all piano libraries suck, and at this point it looks like they always will. All of us are always impressed whenever a new piano library is released, thinking.... ooooooh, this could be the one! Then we play it for a while, and ultimately realize it still sounds like samples. It never sounds juuuust right.



Right, *NO*. My main piano libraries are at times borderline miraculous in terms of playability and tone (yeah I'm talking about the Garritan CFX specifically). Even on fast runs it does a fine job, just don't push your luck (which goes for pretty much _*any*_ vi).

Or maybe I come to the table not expecting "unbelievable realism". I threw that idea away early on, because I have to work with grand pianos during commissions and know quite well what the real thing is (and that real thing will never be made obsolete).

I continue to marvel at the fact a good portion of people here (not meaning the quoted member specifically) are more interested in testing vis for an unreachable level of "realism", round robin boo boos, de facto jukebox karaoke, etc. than using them to assist in composition,orchestration. Of course, there's nothing wrong with doing that in itself. Just...different to me. My vis get a work out when I *compose*...I don't care about testing them to their limits the way one might test drive an automobile. If I get at all inspired when I first start composing with my new instrument, it was worth it. Of course, everyone's different.

Most of the pros I know use vis for _sketches_...and I mean sketches from barest draft to nice mockups that can give their target a very sound idea of what they want. These days fewer people (whether musician or not) are fooled by vi mockups, and the number attenuates every day (I've been asked "are those samples" by laypeople more times than I can count in the past year; they're crackin' wise, folks lol!).

If you're really looking for closest-realism, you are going to be disappointed every time you hear that instrument (or set of) in a real life context.

Now, you can use your vis any flippin' way your heart desires (and bless ya!). However, you're going to get super frustrated if you continue a search for a vi that will make an actual instrument(s) obsolete with its hyper-realism. That last might never happen (even at this point the prospects are looking dim).


----------



## germancomponist (Sep 9, 2018)

How good it is, that we all use different pianos ... . Think about when all composers would use the same piano, wouldn't it be boring?


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## Parsifal666 (Sep 9, 2018)

germancomponist said:


> How good it is, that we all use different pianos ... . Think about when all composers would use the same piano, wouldn't it be boring?



+1


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## keepitsimple (Sep 9, 2018)

This subject will never have closure, mainly because everyone's version of "inspire" is different. You've got the composer who gets triggered by the noises and sound of the felt/hammers, you've got the other composer who wants a piano with full singing upper registers to complement his melodic cues, you've got the experimental composer who only likes to use old beat-up uprights, and you've got the hybrid composer who also happens to be a professional pianist with a classical background who is only satisfied by the most responsive grand piano library with thousands of velocity layers and release samples.

Usually, the latter category suffers the most in finding the right piano library and you'll see them switching from one library to another.

But at the end of the day, for inspiration, nothing beats the "real instrument" and that also applies to other instruments as well obviously.

I'm saving up to finance a Yamaha C7X that i played couple months ago and couldn't get it out of my system since then. In the meantime, i'm thankful for the many options we have nowdays in virtual technology and i admit that we are too spoiled for choices.


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## DervishCapkiner (Sep 9, 2018)

@chillbot - I don't know if this is way off but I really love the variation in the clavia - NORD - pianos. You of course would need to buy a second hand nord electro or stage 2 onwards but they have new piano sounds every few months for free - they have a brilliant selction of bright, characterful etc pianos.. Just food for thought


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## CGR (Sep 9, 2018)

LamaRose said:


> I haven't gotten it yet, but I thought the Sonixinema London Boyd has a unique upright vibe. Any feedback here on that would be cool.


I got this a few months ago and have used it on a few tracks, including this track from a recent production music album I released through Motion Focus Music:

http://www.motionfocusmusic.com/search/tracks/release/tid_394f40debf8a263b

Really 'earthy' tone. The key/action mechanism noise is present in the samples, but can be dialled back in the GUI.
Developers are very responsive too.

EDIT: Just listened to this linked audio file and it seems to be a heavily compressed preview file. The piano (and whole track) sounds much better than this in it's original 24bit WAV version!


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## LamaRose (Sep 9, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Where did you find that CH freebie?



You'll have to watch this video for the password; there are links for the EXS and Kontakt version. I can't find the .wav files on my computer, so I may have to re-download myself!


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## SchnookyPants (Sep 9, 2018)

Evidently/apparently/obviously (take your pick) we here are especially prone to that facet of human nature known as 'kvetching'.

If we were on the "Real Actual Three-Dimensional Pianos Forum", we'd be kvetching about the differences / inferiority / superiority of Jonesendorfer vs. Schoonerway nine-footers. If we were all on the same brand, it'd be the 1952 vs. the 1957 production run. If we're all on the same units, we'd be talking about differences in strings, or which guy tuned what piano.

What may just be a little better use of our limited time here on this rock, would be working to get the most out of what we _do_ have; developing our chops, master an instrument's nuances, explore voicings and write some damned music, fer chrissake.

Look inward, and stop trying to buy inspiration.

A garage full of exotic racing cars ain't gonna' make you a great driver.

Rant off.


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## chillbot (Sep 9, 2018)

PaulBrimstone said:


> You know, despite all the time spent (wasted?) on these virtual pianos, I also miked up my Yamaha U1 and I've never been happier, really. Dunno why we bother with the imitations. Okay, the VIs are easier, but there’s nothing like the real thing reverberating under your fingers. Pianos, too.


I have a U1 in the house, I've recorded it before with a 250-foot mic cable, sounds great. Does yours have the mute/felt option? I love that tone. I also have a C3 in the studio that has perma-mics on it and also sounds fantastic. All I have to do is turn the mics on and I'm recording. Ran a computer monitor and keyboard in there as well. So you think I would use that all the time, and I do, but that's a separate situation for me. Again, this thread has a wealth of information which is great for everyone but for me personally, not looking for more pianos that sound like real pianos. I have that covered.



DervishCapkiner said:


> @chillbot - I don't know if this is way off but I really love the variation in the clavia - NORD - pianos. You of course would need to buy a second hand nord electro or stage 2 onwards but they have new piano sounds every few months for free - they have a brilliant selction of bright, characterful etc pianos.. Just food for thought


I have a Nord Electro and love it.


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## Casiquire (Sep 9, 2018)

chillbot said:


> People that love pianoteq REALLY LOVE pianoteq, I've found. I just don't think it's for me. And to be clear I'm not looking for more pianos that sound like pianos I'm looking for pianos that have an interesting combination of sonic character and playability that just make my hands do happy hand dances. I'm sure pianoteq is that for some but I'm not getting it.



Well that's just what's so strange here, for the most part even people who don't like the *sound* of it tend to love the way it feels to play it. Interesting!


----------



## chillbot (Sep 9, 2018)

Dammit I've tried downloading this three different times from two different computers with two different OS with the latest version of connect and plenty of disk space. Anyone else run into this? Same error every time.


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## slobajudge (Sep 9, 2018)

You are probably missed earlier debate about it in Embertone thread. First you must set on Download only mode and single connection. After that don`t touch anything and let computer finished. Then manually extract. Do something else while its downloading. That program is so sensitive like good chicks


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## PaulBrimstone (Sep 9, 2018)

chillbot said:


> I have a U1 in the house, I've recorded it before with a 250-foot mic cable, sounds great. Does yours have the mute/felt option? I love that tone.


Yes @chillbot, I have the felt option, and it sounds fabulous miked up and pushed through a bazillion stoopid fx; or even plain. And it is closer than 250ft from my Mac. Wish I had space for a C3


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## AllanH (Sep 9, 2018)

Another good source for "Pianos with personality" (c) is https://www.sampletekk.com/

The Rain Piano certainly has a character
https://www.sampletekk.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=175&search=rain

*EDIT*: there a few different versions of the product. Here's a newer one
https://www.sampletekk.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=167&search=rain

Just search for "Rain" to see all four.


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## Fleer (Sep 9, 2018)

Per, the guy behind Sampletekk, did a number of the Nord pianos. So you can get into Nord by getting into Sampletekk.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 9, 2018)

tmhuud said:


> You have a K2500 eh Nick? Nice. I had a rack mount Kurzweil 1000PX. Lovely piano sound. I miss that baby. Had an interesting Cello too.



I have a 1000PX (upgraded to a Plus if I remember right] in a rack too, and I haven't turned it on in ten years. It might still work - will have to try now that you say that!


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## tmhuud (Sep 9, 2018)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I have a 1000PX (upgraded to a Plus if I remember right] in a rack too, and I haven't turned it on in ten years. It might still work - will have to try now that you say that!



I think it has a New Age piano I used all the time.


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## SillyMidOn (Sep 10, 2018)

Have you tried Imperfect Samples:

http://www.imperfectsamples.com


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## jmvideo (Sep 10, 2018)

SillyMidOn said:


> Have you tried Imperfect Samples:
> 
> http://www.imperfectsamples.com



They sound nice, but barely playable.


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## SillyMidOn (Sep 11, 2018)

jmvideo said:


> They sound nice, but barely playable.


Each to their own. I find the Walnut Grand very playable, personally.


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## kavinsky (Sep 11, 2018)

SillyMidOn said:


> Each to their own. I find the Walnut Grand very playable, personally.


Same thing, two of their products are my go-to pianos.


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## CGR (Sep 11, 2018)

SillyMidOn said:


> Each to their own. I find the Walnut Grand very playable, personally.


I have the Imperfect Fazioli Complete & Braunschweig Basic. Very much niche pianos for my use, (sparse, pensive stuff) but the Fazioli in particular gives me that certain fullness of tone & resonance that not many other sampled pianos can achieve. 

Here's an example of some simple improvised solo stuff with the P1 & P3 mics. I find it quite 'playable' for this kind of thing:


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## SBK (Sep 11, 2018)

Concert Grand by Production Voices


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## CGR (Sep 11, 2018)

The Imperfect Fazioli in a Jazz trio setting:


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## Vin (Sep 11, 2018)

chillbot said:


> I've never been a huge fan of Piano in Blue, or Alicia's Keys, or any of the NI pianos, I have all of them.



Damn, PiB is my go-to answer for character piano usually 

I love Woodchester as well and this collection sounds interesting: https://www.cinematique-instruments.com/page_charakter_piano.php


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## Josh Richman (Sep 11, 2018)

Vin said:


> Damn, PiB is my go-to answer for character piano usually
> 
> I love Woodchester as well and this collection sounds interesting: https://www.cinematique-instruments.com/page_charakter_piano.php



Great thread. Discovering so many new brands and instruments in the process. I love NI una corda, I have woodchester. Charakter piano package looks interesting, it’s 6 pianos in one.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 12, 2018)

Don’t buy Art Vista’s VG3. It sounds exactly like a piano.


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## SillyMidOn (Sep 12, 2018)

CGR said:


> I have the Imperfect Fazioli Complete & Braunschweig Basic. Very much niche pianos for my use, (sparse, pensive stuff) but the Fazioli in particular gives me that certain fullness of tone & resonance that not many other sampled pianos can achieve.
> 
> Here's an example of some simple improvised solo stuff with the P1 & P3 mics. I find it quite 'playable' for this kind of thing:



I keep meaning to get the Fazioli - did you buy the full 127 dynamic layers version?


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## CGR (Sep 12, 2018)

SillyMidOn said:


> I keep meaning to get the Fazioli - did you buy the full 127 dynamic layers version?


I bought it in stages (Basic > Pro > Complete) but don't feel I need the Full/Extreme version (or whatever it's called). The 3rd perspective mic set (P3) in the Complete version adds some clarity when mixed with the close mic set (P1). Plenty of dynamics, but I wouldn't play anything too fast/technically challenging with it, because I know it would end in tears!


----------



## CGR (Sep 12, 2018)

I meant to add - the imperfect samples Fazioli is a very 'present' sampled piano, following the company's sampling philosophy. You can almost 'see' the piano in front of you, and the fullness/muddy-ness can be tamed with selective EQ, and made to sit in a mix really well I've found.


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## Fleer (Sep 12, 2018)

Still, prefer the Wavesfactory Mercury for Fazioli duties. Like hearing Freddie.


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## kavinsky (Sep 12, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Still, prefer the Wavesfactory Mercury for Fazioli duties. Like hearing Freddie.


I was looking at it after it was mentioned here and I felt it was quite wet sounding? All the demos are kinda wet to my taste. Am I wrong?


----------



## Ashley123 (Sep 12, 2018)

Ivory II is definitely the one that suits me best


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## Greg (Sep 12, 2018)

Hammersmith is definitely worth checking out. It has a ton of features to shape the sound. I almost always use a combination of Hammersmith + Una Corda + Olafur's toolkit.


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## SillyMidOn (Sep 12, 2018)

CGR said:


> The Imperfect Fazioli in a Jazz trio setting:



Nice!


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## Fleer (Sep 12, 2018)

kavinsky said:


> I was looking at it after it was mentioned here and I felt it was quite wet sounding? All the demos are kinda wet to my taste. Am I wrong?


There's a full blown effects bundle included, with the plate reverbs from the actual recording room, and you can use them separately.


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## jaketanner (Sep 12, 2018)

chillbot said:


> Today I bought Orange Tree Evolution Rosewood Grand and Art Vista Malmsjo.
> 
> I also got Pianoteq Electric Pianos, and as such was able to demo all of their pianos, none of which did a ton for me.
> 
> ...



I have the Walker 1955...I think for realism, it's great, especially with the different mic positions available. However, Imperfect Samples has a nice Wood piano, forgot the name exactly, but they sounded great to me...A bit on the dark side, but sounds like a piano from an audience perspective, not one from a microphone's...if that makes sense..lol


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## Syncopator (Nov 14, 2018)

Mike Fox said:


> Imperfect Samples



Is this a library title? A wish? A developer? Without a subject and a verb (a complete sentence), how are we to know what you intended?


----------



## Mike Fox (Nov 14, 2018)

Syncopator said:


> Is this a library title? A wish? A developer? Without a subject and a verb (a complete sentence), how are we to know what you intended?


Calm down. Good hell.


----------



## KEM (Nov 14, 2018)

Only piano that I own is The Giant but you could get pretty weird with it and the textures you can create are always inspiring. I definitely need to get something new.


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## Syncopator (Nov 14, 2018)

Mike Fox said:


> Calm down. Good hell.



LOL. The original post is unclear. I simply asked for clarification. In what universe does asking simple questions mean I'm not "calm"? Quite an overreaction on your part, not mine. It seems you need your own advice more than I do.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 14, 2018)

Syncopator said:


> LOL. The original post is unclear. I simply asked for clarification. In what universe does asking simple questions mean I'm not "calm"? Quite an overreaction on your part, not mine. It seems you need your own advice more than I do.


Hehe, ok. Take care.


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## Daniel (Nov 14, 2018)

For 8 years I am using SoundIron "Emotional Piano",
My next target is Garritan "CFX Concert Grand" or VI Labs "Ravenscroft 275", or anything with a different character to my "Emotional Piano", any suggestion? (Steinway or Yamaha C7 is very nice also)
"Emotional Piano" is really good for movie scoring, but for pop music production I think I need another character.
Thank you.


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## chillbot (Nov 14, 2018)

Syncopator said:


> The original post is unclear.



Maybe I can type a bit slower for you. Not sure how much more clear the original post needs to be:

I <-- that's me
am looking for <-- the act of looking; a search or examination
pianos <-- they are these big things with 88 keys, in this case sampled
that have <-- which contain certain qualities
a magical "feel" <-- here is the quality I'm looking for
that just <-- could have used "also" here
inspire <-- to produce or arouse a feeling; to fill with animating, quickening, or exalting influence
you <-- because I'm asking "you all" a question
to play <-- actually pressing down notes on that piano thingy referenced above
them. <-- in this case, the piano samples

Now put it all together:



chillbot said:


> I am looking for pianos that have a magical "feel" that just inspire you to play them.



Sorry I know it's difficult. Hope this helps.

Also thank you for bumping a two-month old thread by adding absolutely nothing to it. That is one of my favorites.


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## scoringdreams (Nov 14, 2018)

Daniel said:


> For 8 years I am using SoundIron "Emotional Piano",
> My next target is Garritan "CFX Concert Grand" or VI Labs "Ravenscroft 275", or anything with a different character to my "Emotional Piano", any suggestion? (Steinway or Yamaha C7 is very nice also)
> "Emotional Piano" is really good for movie scoring, but for pop music production I think I need another character.
> Thank you.



I have the CFX and I think it's more functional/versatile compared to being inspirational.

But the CFX does sound unique in its own right and its definitely different from the C7 (smaller in size) and Steinway (darker). There's even a timbre knob that lets you adjust the darkness/brightness of the CFX!

The Emotional Piano is more suited for less complex piano phrases, emphasising on its special cinematic character while the CFX is just a very useful piano regardless of situation.


----------



## Daniel (Nov 15, 2018)

scoringdreams said:


> I have the CFX and I think it's more functional/versatile compared to being inspirational.
> 
> But the CFX does sound unique in its own right and its definitely different from the C7 (smaller in size) and Steinway (darker). There's even a timbre knob that lets you adjust the darkness/brightness of the CFX!
> 
> The Emotional Piano is more suited for less complex piano phrases, emphasising on its special cinematic character while the CFX is just a very useful piano regardless of situation.


Thank you for the opinion, agree with you that my piano suited for less phrases.


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## Fleer (Nov 15, 2018)

As for character, still Piano-in-Blue from CineSamples and its CinePiano sibling. Also, that Mercury Fazioli from Wavesfactory, OrangetreeSamples Rosewood and the Baldwin from WholeSounds. Maybe even ImpactSoundworks’ Pearl C7 and definitely Embertone’s Walker, which allows you to drift anywhere with its mic positions. And the Bechstein Digital Grand with its soundscaping settings. I loooove character pianos.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Nov 15, 2018)

SchnookyPants said:


> Look inward, and stop trying to buy inspiration.



This is actually a really, insightful sentence. I, and I'm sure not only I but many people here have done this.

One of the best posts this year imo @SchnookyPants.


----------



## pmountford (Nov 15, 2018)

@chillbot Might be an odd thing to say, but did you say somewhere you have an RD2000? Personally I find playing the internal modelled pianos on this Roland piano as inspirational as any of the piano libraries that I own such as Ivory, QL Pianos, Piano In Blue, Malmsjo, Komplete etc.


----------



## Jerry Growl (Nov 15, 2018)

Awesome how many great piano VI's there are these days.

I'm pretty happy with the Walker. It's become my main piano. Cuts through dense mixes, stands out in minimal settings... (still hoping for that update patch because of little quirks here and there).

Though I don't think this one is inspiring out of the box. In fact it's confronting. Shows off your shape of playing skills like a mirror. Even though I don't think myself a very bad player. It's just like a real grand piano it translates quite honestly and directly. 

So all I have to do for inspiration (especially in the morning) is bury it with the right reverb. And some coffee.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Nov 15, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> This is actually a really, insightful sentence. I, and I'm sure not only I but many people here have done this.
> 
> One of the best posts this year imo @SchnookyPants.


No, it's ignorant. It was never said that a characterful piano writes music for you or NECESSARILY leads to inspiration.
Of course inspiration mostly comes from within, not from the instruments.
But having the right sounds at your fingertips can still help greatly. I've noticed how I'm somewhat more or less inspired depending on what libraries I play with... even the type of music I'll come up with is influenced by that.
So, yea - inspiring samples can help and even shape ideas... Noone said they are the ultimate medicine against lack of inspiration. So, not sure what that post even wants to say.
That samples don't help in any way with inspiration? - Bad generalization.
That samples are not the medicine for inspiration? - Noone said this.


----------



## Ashermusic (Nov 15, 2018)

pmountford said:


> @chillbot Might be an odd thing to say, but did you say somewhere you have an RD2000? Personally I find playing the internal modelled pianos on this Roland piano as inspirational as any of the piano libraries that I own such as Ivory, QL Pianos, Piano In Blue, Malmsjo, Komplete etc.



I feel the same way about my Dexibell Vivo S7 piano sounds. There is a video a>b of it with Ivory.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 15, 2018)

DarkestShadow said:


> No, it's ignorant. It was never said that a characterful piano writes music for you or NECESSARILY leads to inspiration.
> Of course inspiration mostly comes from within, not from the instruments.
> But having the right sounds at your fingertips can still help greatly. I've noticed how I'm somewhat more or less inspired depending on what libraries I play with... even the type of music I'll come up with is influenced by that.
> So, yea - inspiring samples can help and even shape ideas... Noone said they are the ultimate medicine against lack of inspiration. So, not sure what that post even wants to say.
> ...



Absolutely true for me. Some sounds make me feel like I want to compose with them while others, arguably better, do not.


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## Parsifal666 (Nov 15, 2018)

DarkestShadow said:


> No, it's ignorant. It was never said that a characterful piano writes music for you or NECESSARILY leads to inspiration.
> Of course inspiration mostly comes from within, not from the instruments.
> But having the right sounds at your fingertips can still help greatly. I've noticed how I'm somewhat more or less inspired depending on what libraries I play with... even the type of music I'll come up with is influenced by that.
> So, yea - inspiring samples can help and even shape ideas... Noone said they are the ultimate medicine against lack of inspiration. So, not sure what that post even wants to say.
> ...



Well, I've bought libraries (the Bernard Herrmann Orchestral Toolkit for one) for inspiration, and they were wildly inspiring. I don't think it was ignorant to say that at all but I'll be the gentleman and simply agree to disagree.

Perhaps you could have couched your reply with an "imo" instead of sounding like a dick. And no, I won't apologize for that, so hang me.

I guess I'm not a gentleman then lol!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Nov 15, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> Well, I've bought libraries (the Bernard Herrmann Orchestral Toolkit for one) for inspiration, and they were wildly inspiring. I don't think it was ignorant to say that at all but I'll be the gentleman and simply agree to disagree.
> 
> Perhaps you could have couched your reply with an "imo" instead of sounding like a dick. And no, I won't apologize for that, so hang me.


A dick is someone who insults others, not someone who harshly disagrees. Oh wait... hm, who used the word "dick"?


----------



## Parsifal666 (Nov 15, 2018)

DarkestShadow said:


> Oh wait... hm, who used the word "dick"?



Some Wagnerian dick.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Nov 15, 2018)

Actually, a dick could be seen as someone who harshly disagrees, dammit.


----------



## sostenuto (Nov 15, 2018)

Having had the amazing opportunity to enjoy fine pianos and organs over decades, I share the belief that inspiration can truly come from external sources. Sample libraries differ from acoustic instruments, in obvious ways, yet the effects can be close …. depending.

OTH …. these inspirations become 'internalized'; so *@ DarkestShadow* comes at this from another perspective. 

As aging ears continue to degrade, all may need to come from _within_ at some point ….


----------



## chillbot (Nov 15, 2018)

Since this old thread got bumped in the weirdest manner....

I never did find the piano color/inspiration I was looking for. Not for lack of trying. I bought Rosewood Grand, Mamlsjo, Embertone Walker, Pianoteq, maybe some others I forget. Some good did come out of it, not exactly what I was looking for but I am crazy about Soundiron Drinking Piano and the Pianoteq Rhodes.

@pmountford I do have a RD2000, sort of. I love the feel and action of it so much. Not as much as a real piano but it's very sexy and smooth. But... it's in the other studio... I use a Yamaha Motif XF8. Which has a more realistic piano feel, to me, but is not so velvety as the RD2000. I've considered swapping out the keyboards (sorry Jdiggity) but I'm used to what I'm used to at this point.

EDIT: Oh this is good timing, I forgot I really wanted to try out the 8dio Passionate Piano but couldn't stomach the $199 price tag. I'm downloading now with the black friday 40% off sale.


----------



## Jerry Growl (Nov 15, 2018)

chillbot said:


> EDIT: Oh this is good timing, I forgot I really wanted to try out the 8dio Passionate Piano but couldn't stomach the $199 price tag. I'm downloading now with the black friday 40% off sale.


O good for you! It's a real beauty. Well captured. Great character. Only downside for me is the long load time of Kontakt for this piano. My coffee is cold by the time this one is through loading. Hope you don't have that too.

Edit: I solved this issue (virus scanner was the culprit).


----------



## Parsifal666 (Nov 15, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Having had the amazing opportunity to enjoy fine pianos and organs over decades, I share the belief that inspiration can truly come from external sources. Sample libraries differ from acoustic instruments, in obvious ways, yet the effects can be close …. depending.
> 
> OTH …. these inspirations become 'internalized'; so *@ DarkestShadow* comes at this from another perspective.
> 
> As aging ears continue to degrade, all may need to come from _within_ at some point ….



@DarkestShadow I do understand better what you meant, so please accept an apology from a from a fellow dick.



I'm joking btw, I already know I'm a dick, not so sure on you.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Nov 15, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> @DarkestShadow I do understand better what you meant, so please accept an apology from a from a fellow dick.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm joking btw, I already know I'm a dick, not so sure on you.


Yea man... we'll all go hell! Till the devil can't stomach us anymore...


----------



## CT (Nov 15, 2018)

Ok but we still don't know what Mike Fox meant when he said imperfect samples. How are we to know what he intended?!


----------



## Parsifal666 (Nov 15, 2018)

DarkestShadow said:


> Yea man... we'll all go hell! Till the devil can't stomach us anymore...



Until the wheels fall off and we run out of bullets...


----------



## dzilizzi (Nov 15, 2018)

Did you ever look at Production Voices Death Piano? It is usually at a good price and has all those slightly out of tune old pianos, as well as some other great sounds.


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## sostenuto (Nov 15, 2018)

Almost everyone likes goulash.


----------



## chasmanian (Nov 15, 2018)

splendid still_lives.
awesome, inspiring and super helpful thoughts.


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## CGR (Nov 20, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> I feel the same way about my Dexibell Vivo S7 piano sounds. There is a video a>b of it with Ivory.



Questionable video. Not to take anything away from the Dexibell Vivo S7 (which does sound good) but it states Ivory II Studio Grands (which is a Steinway B & Bosendorfer 225) and then shows a seemingly hacked version of the Ivory Yamaha C7 running within Kontakt. Hmmmm.


----------



## Ashermusic (Nov 20, 2018)

CGR said:


> Questionable video. It states Ivory Studio Grands (which is a Steinway B & Bosendorfer 225) but shows a seemingly hacked version of the Ivory Yamaha C7 running within Kontakt. Hmmmm.



Ooh, I didn't notice that, not being an Ivory owner. I will ask them about that.


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## CGR (Nov 20, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> Ooh, I didn't notice that, not being an Ivory owner. I will ask them about that.


Yes, Ivory has it's own engine created by Synthogy, and runs in standalone & plugin versions. That Kontakt version in the video looks dodgy.


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## brenneisen (Nov 21, 2018)

CGR said:


> That Kontakt version in the video looks dodgy.



Unofficial re-sampled edition. It has fewer dynamic layers but it's really taken from Ivory.

(gotta love euphemisms)


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## vmishka (Dec 4, 2018)

I used to use Ivory II Italian grand and then I switched to Garritan CFX. I play and record myself on a Yamaha Clavinova CLP-340 and then render the final in Cubase with Garritan CFX (mixing concertos with Music Minus One recordings). Here is the latest example from my YouTube channel:


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## sostenuto (Dec 4, 2018)

vmishka said:


> I used to use Ivory II Italian grand and then I switched to Garritan CFX. I play and record myself on a Yamaha Clavinova CLP-340 and then render the final in Cubase with Garritan CFX (mixing concertos with Music Minus One recordings).
> 
> 
> > My fav VI piano has been IvoryII Italian Grand forever .....
> ...


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## vmishka (Dec 4, 2018)

\
On my channel, the Mozart "Coronation" Concerto (K537) was done with Ivory II Italian Grand. The rest of the content has been done with Garritan CFX.


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## ScoreFace (Dec 5, 2018)

Piano-in-Blue from CineSamples is my absolute favorite, very inspiring and such an intimate sound!


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## CGR (Dec 5, 2018)

ScoreFace said:


> Piano-in-Blue from CineSamples is my absolute favorite, very inspiring and such an intimate sound!


I also find it inspiring. It has quite an unusual character amongst all the sampled pianos out there - a combination of it being made in 1949, it's tuning & voicing (there's a lot of 'movement' in the tone) and a piano that sounds to me like is still has the original strings. Also the carefully considered techniques & gear used in the sampling, and the programming/scripting (programmed by Sam Estes; scripted by Greg Schlaepfer of OrangeTree samples fame).


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## CT (Dec 5, 2018)

I've been eyeing Piano In Blue for months, but I always hesitate because I don't think it has a sympathetic resonance feature. Talk about being spoiled....


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## CGR (Dec 5, 2018)

miket said:


> I've been eyeing Piano In Blue for months, but I always hesitate because I don't think it has a sympathetic resonance feature. Talk about being spoiled....


It does have proper separate sustain pedal down & up samples though, so sounds very authentic. I prefer this over sampled pianos with only pedal up samples and then sampled/modeled/sympathetic resonances blended in when you press the sustain pedal (but, upside of this method is generally better re-pedaling & half pedaling). Never really sounds real to me though.


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## SchnookyPants (Dec 5, 2018)

DarkestShadow said:


> No, it's ignorant. It was never said that a characterful piano writes music for you or NECESSARILY leads to inspiration.
> Of course inspiration mostly comes from within, not from the instruments.
> But having the right sounds at your fingertips can still help greatly. I've noticed how I'm somewhat more or less inspired depending on what libraries I play with... even the type of music I'll come up with is influenced by that.
> So, yea - inspiring samples can help and even shape ideas... Noone said they are the ultimate medicine against lack of inspiration. So, not sure what that post even wants to say.
> ...



I've got a pretentious 20 year old saying that _my_ statement's ignorant? K M A.


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## thecomposer10 (Dec 5, 2018)

I've owned the @Embertone Walker Concert D for the better part of two weeks and am already swearing by it. I've been lucky enough to practice and perform on a number of full-size Steinways in my life and this VI comes the closest to matching the sound of one. If paired with a great controller, it almost feels like one too – almost  The mic options are also great, and the una corda samples are so nice.


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## Lode_Runner (Dec 5, 2018)

Love Fluffy Audio's My Piano, just a really lovely warm sounding upright.

I also love the original version (sadly no longer available) of the PMI Old Lady (Steinway) for those woody high notes.

Piano in Blue may be sampled from the Bill Evans piano, but I can't get it to sound like that sadly. However, I love setting it to tape and mono for a 1940s cinema vibe.

8Dio 1928 Legacy has beautiful sound, not great velocity layering, but has inspired compositions for me that sound nice with this library, but boring when played with other libraries (which leads me to conclude that the timbre is what makes it sound good, not the composition. That's not necessarily a good thing).

Love the demos for Imperfect Samples 1908 Walnut but haven't been able to get it to sound like that at all.


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## NYC Composer (Dec 5, 2018)

I need many more piano libraries, because 16 is CLEARLY not enough.

Actually, what’s sort of sad is listening back to my compositions done with the Kurzweil piano module. At the time, I thought it sounded awesome.


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## CGR (Dec 5, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> I need many more piano libraries, because 16 is CLEARLY not enough.
> 
> Actually, what’s sort of sad is listening back to my compositions done with the Kurzweil piano module. At the time, I thought it sounded awesome.


Only 16 heh?  The thing I found is that there is so much variation in the tone and playability across all the sampled pianos available (not to mention how the piano sampled has been tuned and voiced - makes a huge difference even in identical brands and models).

Some styles of music just don't seem to work with certain software pianos, so having a large selection is really important to me for what I do. Even the most unlikely old upright sampled piano can provide just the right tone/mood/vibe to a track.

I remember being very envious as a kid of the lucky musos with Kurzweil gear! I've heard a few people still praise them in a live setting. Pretty sure one of the Kurzweil guys went onto form the company Synthogy (Ivory Pianos).


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## Lionel Schmitt (Dec 6, 2018)

SchnookyPants said:


> I've got a _pretentious_ *20 year old* saying that _my_ statement's ignorant? K M A.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

_You know me personally?_


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## woodslanding (Dec 21, 2018)

Wally Garten said:


> Oh, man, if we're talking EPs, I recently got the Canterbury Suitcase from SonicCouture and I LOVE it. Very warm and present.




It sounds great.... I just bought it, but I can't play it. There's silence on the front of 1/3 of the samples! Makes my hands hurt. Just tracked one down with 25ms of space on the front!! That's literally painful. I can't believe I'm the only one on the internet who minds this.... but I seem to be.

Here's a sample from G below middle C. I've found 3 more samples on this note alone that are above 20ms. And I've only gotten up to mf.... I don't have time to fix 88 notes of this myself, I hope they will.


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## Wally Garten (Dec 22, 2018)

woodslanding said:


> It sounds great.... I just bought it, but I can't play it. There's silence on the front of 1/3 of the samples!



Hmm. Interesting. I can't say I've noticed this. But I'll keep an eye out now that you've mentioned it. Have you contacted Soniccouture?


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## Pantonal (Dec 22, 2018)

SchnookyPants said:


> Evidently/apparently/obviously (take your pick) we here are especially prone to that facet of human nature known as 'kvetching'.
> 
> If we were on the "Real Actual Three-Dimensional Pianos Forum", we'd be kvetching about the differences / inferiority / superiority of Jonesendorfer vs. Schoonerway nine-footers. If we were all on the same brand, it'd be the 1952 vs. the 1957 production run. If we're all on the same units, we'd be talking about differences in strings, or which guy tuned what piano.


You must be talking about the PianoWorld forums,... fun place!

I've missed this thread up to now, so allow me to respond. Chillbot is looking for an inspirational piano. Obviously, that's open to interpretation. One person's inspiration is another's, "meh..." Some find the mellow emotional piano lib's inspiring (I don't), others like bright and brash! For me it's responsiveness that inspires. If I really cared about that I would learn how to tweak velocity response in the libraries I own to make them seem more responsive. Up to now I haven't done that. I like the Garritan CFX, I like the Ravenscroft 275. I even like the American Grand and German Grand that I have that use the UVI player (forgot exactly who makes them). But recently I was surprised by the responsiveness of the Basillica Piano (Kawai RX7) from Michael Picher. It seems to match up well with what my fingers play on an old Yamaha P60 without tweaking the velocity response curve. And it was cheap (inexpensive). Now if they'd sample a Shigeru Kawai EX. YMMV!!

Of course none of them match the sound of the Estonia 190 in my living room, but I haven't been able to truly capture that sound with microphones. So I do like the VIs and one can fix mistakes by tweaking the midi data.


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## woodslanding (Dec 22, 2018)

On the piano feel issue:

For anyone using REAPER, I recommend the jsfx called 'midi curver'. It basically gives you a 5 point velocity curve, which has been enough to correct the feel of all my piano samples to my satisfaction. Instead of loading a piano, I load an FX chain with curver on the front. Some of the pianos have enough control, but some have too little, and some have way too much. My mousing is not up for getting a smooth curve drawing 127 elements!

And I have talked to SC about the Canterbury. It's close to the holidays, so I don't expect to hear from them until next week. If they don't want to fix it (and it's not some bizarre problem with my download???) I'd like my money back.

Can you check the sample from my screenshot in your version? I did also reload it just in case, but it's unchanged. When I got the Scarbee 88 there were a few weird sounding samples, but it seemed like it was a problem with a conversion routine on first load or something? It never happened again. That piano was rescued by midi curver btw. The velocity controls it comes with are not sufficient to make it play right.

cheers,
-e


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## Wally Garten (Dec 22, 2018)

woodslanding said:


> Can you check the sample from my screenshot in your version?



How would I go about doing that?


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## woodslanding (Dec 22, 2018)

If you've never been inside Kontakt, don't worry about it  And you certainly can't do it with kontakt player.


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## ag75 (Dec 24, 2018)

Has anyone mentioned Braunschweig Upright Piano Pro? I absolutely love this piano. It's not for everyone, but it has such a unique color to it. Feels like an old piano you would find in the basement of a Church. http://www.imperfectsamples.com/website/samples/braunschweig/braunschweiguprightpiano.php


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## sostenuto (Dec 24, 2018)

Lots of cool piano libs to choose from (NI_K11U, AD Keys, Embertone 1995 Steinway, Waves) but
adjustability of IvoryII_ Italian Grand usually gets very close to needs. Some 'felt' pianos fill in nicely.


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## Roy V (Dec 26, 2018)

SillyMidOn said:


> Have you tried Imperfect Samples:
> 
> http://www.imperfectsamples.com


I don’t feel the glue on the imperfect samples...


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## Bluemount Score (Dec 26, 2018)

My current favorite is The Grandeur from NI. For me it sounds just as I would a concert piano like to sound... No special noises, not to old sounding. It's just a classical piano. But I can only compare to the other NI pianos and pianos from the Metropolis Ark Series. Haven't played anything else by myself yet, but am currently very happy with my collection


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## tmhuud (Dec 26, 2018)

“No special noises, not to old sounding.“

I like that. I may start describing myself like that.


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## Bluemount Score (Dec 26, 2018)

tmhuud said:


> “No special noises, not to old sounding.“
> 
> I like that. I may start describing myself like that.


"Vintage" is the word I was probably missing hahaha :D


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## DenisT (Dec 27, 2018)

Meetyhtan said:


> My current favorite is The Grandeur from NI. For me it sounds just as I would a concert piano like to sound... No special noises, not to old sounding. It's just a classical piano. But I can only compare to the other NI pianos and pianos from the Metropolis Ark Series. Haven't played anything else by myself yet, but am currently very happy with my collection



Same here, The Grandeur is my fav so far. Really really nice piano!


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## keepitsimple (Dec 27, 2018)

VSL CFX does it for me ever since i bought it. It just feels like a real piano between my fingers and that for me is important for the sake of the *connection with the instrument*----->*inspiration*------>*making music*. 

I haven't played for more than 3 months due to personal life events and today i decided to play for the first time and the VSL CFX deservedly made the revisit very welcome. Attached is what my rusty fingers rambled about.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/7-mp3.17480/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Ashermusic (Dec 28, 2018)

My biggest problem sometimes is deciding which to the many excellent choices to reach for. I have the Embertone 1955 Walker. Steinway D, Chocolate Audio pianos, Fluffy Audio Scoring Piano, Cinematic Studio piano, ArtVista Virtual Grand 2 and Malmsjo, EW Pianos, Sampletekk Seven Seas Grand, and really, they are _all_ quite good in their own way.

And I just love the pianos in my Dexibell Vivo S7, which I can easily use as if it were a software instrument in Logic Pro.


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## Casiquire (Dec 28, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> VSL CFX does it for me ever since i bought it. It just feels like a real piano between my fingers and that for me is important for the sake of the *connection with the instrument*----->*inspiration*------>*making music*.
> 
> I haven't played for more than 3 months due to personal life events and today i decided to play for the first time and the VSL CFX deservedly made the revisit very welcome. Attached is what my rusty fingers rambled about.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/7-mp3.17480/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Your playing is mesmerizing. Thanks so much, I thought I was just going to listen to a snippet but then I just let it keep playing until the end.


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## DS_Joost (Dec 28, 2018)

SchnookyPants said:


> I've got a pretentious 20 year old saying that _my_ statement's ignorant? K M A.



I don't know you, and many of you here personally. I don't know your ages, or where in the professional spectrum all of you hang. All I know is that I've gotten some great advice from people all over the world, all over the age spectrum. Age doesn't say a lot when someone is right, and to me, DarkestShadow is totally right. Not to dismiss your original comment, which is also really true, but talking like this doesn't do you any favors, sorry.

I say DarkestShadow is right because right now I am back on Reason again and I do find it tickles my inspiration much more so than any other DAW. So yeah, even though they're all tools, some of these tools can channel a lot more creative energy than others, if they somehow grab you.

I've worked with Cubase before. Cubase was a tool, indeed. A tool to efficiently get to where I wanted to go. And if I knew where I wanted to go, Cubase did things exactly right. If I didn't, it didn't exactly offer me a lot in terms of getting to a point of inspiration. Rather bland, really, and it really turned me off. Reason, on the other hand, does. And the fact that it does this isn't surprising. I know for a fact Reason wasn't created to be the best DAW, rather the most creative one. It's much more an instrument than just a DAW. That sentiment is build into the very core DNA of the program itself, and it shows. There's a reason (no pun intended) why people say Reason's patches and samples seem much more usable than those in any DAW. Because they are made to be used, not just to show off the program. Give me an hour of noodling in Reason and I can tell you I will be working on something again. An hour of that in Cubase and... (insert sounds of crickets here).

I'm not saying Reason creates my music for me, but it does give me some handles to get going. It's very important to be able to start up your DAW and be wanting to create music in the thing. In Reason, I want to, because of the way it was designed.

The same can be true with samples. Some are workhorse like. Some are just plain fun. I find I always chose the fun ones when I don't really know what I'm gonna work on that day.

You can't buy inspiration, no. But sometimes, you find some tools you have do more to get the creative juices flowing than others. Omnisphere is great as a workhorse synth, but to program the thing? Just give me my Peak, or Thor, or Europa any day of the week.


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## keepitsimple (Dec 28, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> Your playing is mesmerizing. Thanks so much, I thought I was just going to listen to a snippet but then I just let it keep playing until the end.


Thank you very much. This is a melody/improv that’s been playing in my head the whole time I’ve been away from playing. Planning to name it “Seven” or “7”. What you hear is the first take as it came into fruition. Thank you for the compliment!


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## soniccouture (Jan 8, 2019)

woodslanding said:


> It sounds great.... I just bought it, but I can't play it. There's silence on the front of 1/3 of the samples! Makes my hands hurt. Just tracked one down with 25ms of space on the front!! That's literally painful. I can't believe I'm the only one on the internet who minds this.... but I seem to be.
> 
> Here's a sample from G below middle C. I've found 3 more samples on this note alone that are above 20ms. And I've only gotten up to mf.... I don't have time to fix 88 notes of this myself, I hope they will.




I have to say, Woodslanding, it's rather irritating that you have gone around the internet posting this complaint on various forums without waiting for us to reply to your email on the same subject.

The trick here is to zoom in, and you will see that it is NOT silence, and the samples are trimmed tight to the start. Kontakt's sample editor is not the best thing for viewing waveforms really.
Here are the examples you posted, zoomed in.









James


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## rottoy (Jan 8, 2019)

soniccouture said:


> I have to say, Woodslanding, it's rather irritating that you have gone around the internet posting this complaint on various forums without waiting for us to reply to your email on the same subject.
> 
> The trick here is to zoom in, and you will see that it is NOT silence, and the samples are trimmed tight to the start. Kontakt's sample editor is not the best thing for viewing waveforms really.
> Here are the examples you posted, zoomed in.
> ...


You would expect at least a modicum of slander from someone with the username "woodslanding".


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## storyteller (Jan 8, 2019)

Saxer said:


> For playability and in pop context I still use the old Truepianos (the Atlantis module).
> http://www.truepianos.com/demos.php


I still love TruePianos too for that same context... Diamond module usually for me though. Always thought it sounded much better than Pianoteq and had similar playability. Good to see other users of it!

But mostly for me, Pearl, Pearl, Pearl. It just inspires me.
Piano In Blue (the American Beauty preset that was floating around here)
Gentleman with Blackhole verb
Garritan CFX with the various moody presets
Definitely others, but those are my favs.


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## Garry (Jan 9, 2019)

Meetyhtan said:


> My current favorite is The Grandeur from NI. For me it sounds just as I would a concert piano like to sound... No special noises, not to old sounding. It's just a classical piano. But I can only compare to the other NI pianos and pianos from the Metropolis Ark Series. Haven't played anything else by myself yet, but am currently very happy with my collection


Funny, that's also how I feel, but reading through this interesting thread, I feel like such a philistine! I too have and am currently satisfied by the NI pianos, and feel that these completely cover what I expect from a sampled piano. But then, you don't know what you don't know. So I wonder, which of any of these listed on this thread would people recommend listening to get that feeling of 'ah, ok that's a noticeable step above what I'm used to hearing'? Great thread.


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## lucor (Jan 14, 2019)

A new contender by Fracture Sounds, just released: https://fracturesounds.com/product/midnight-grand/?v=3a52f3c22ed6


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