# Decapitator with orchestral music



## kimarnesen (Jun 6, 2018)

I got Soundtoys’ Decapitator in a big sale a little while ago but haven’t used it yet. I just knew that a saturation plugin was something I was missing and got it because of its reputation and sale price.

I want to start using it, but I really don’t know how and I know very little about saturation plugins in general. I’ve taken some courses (Evenant, Thinkspace, Groove3) but it has never been mentioned. But I know some are using it, and Alan Meyerson mentioned using it on low strings.

Is it such a big secret that the masters won’t talk about it, or does anyone here use it and willing to share some settings or advice?


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## Andrajas (Jun 6, 2018)

I find that just putting on decapitator on strings for example, can really warm up the sound. Sounds wonderful. Otherwise is nice if you also want more bite in your sound (brass, spiccato strings etc). Fiddle with it and experiment!


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## kimarnesen (Jun 6, 2018)

Andrajas said:


> I find that just putting on decapitator on strings for example, can really warm up the sound. Sounds wonderful. Otherwise is nice if you also want more bite in your sound (brass, spiccato strings etc). Fiddle with it and experiment!



So just putting it on with its default settings? I like fiddling, but I also like to know what the more professional mixers do, as I trust their ears more than mine


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## GtrString (Jun 6, 2018)

If you like the sound, use it. Your choices is what makes you unique.


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## Andrajas (Jun 6, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> So just putting it on with its default settings? I like fiddling, but I also like to know what the more professional mixers do, as I trust their ears more than mine


Yeah its default setting! But go through the different "Style" (A-E-N-T-P). And of course the "Drive" to make it bite a bit more.


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## JohnG (Jun 6, 2018)

you can also try a couple of other tricks:

1. record your strings to audio, then duplicate the track and delay the duplicate track just a tiny amount. Add decapitator only to the second track instead of the whole thing. Probably wouldn't try this with the basses or very low stuff but more the violas and violins -- maybe the cellos if they are playing high in their range.

2. duplicate the higher pitches with synthetic strings (not samples -- synthesizer sounds) and try decapitator on that

3. Do the same thing but double with brass, and apply the decapitator to the brass.

Keep playing around that is the fun of it.

John


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## fixxer49 (Jun 6, 2018)

JohnG said:


> you can also try a couple of other tricks:
> 
> 1. record your strings to audio, then duplicate the track and delay the duplicate track just a tiny amount. Add decapitator only to the second track instead of the whole thing. Probably wouldn't try this with the basses or very low stuff but more the violas and violins -- maybe the cellos if they are playing high in their range.
> 
> ...


can you share any snippets of this in action? i love decapitator on modern and electronic elements, but am _shitscared_ to put it on orchestral stuff. would love to hear example(s), if you don't mind.


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## JohnG (Aug 12, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> can you share any snippets of this in action? i love decapitator on modern and electronic elements, but am _shitscared_ to put it on orchestral stuff. would love to hear example(s), if you don't mind.



Hi fixxer -- honestly this is something that has been around for quite some time to hype hybrid scoring. You have heard it all the time in trailers and such even if you didn't specifically identify it at the time.

Turn your speakers down and give it a whirl. Nothing bad is going to happen and you might love it.


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## Kyle Preston (Aug 12, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> can you share any snippets of this in action? i love decapitator on modern and electronic elements, but am _shitscared_ to put it on orchestral stuff. would love to hear example(s), if you don't mind.



No need to be afraid @fixxer49, the wet/dry knob is as subtle or wreckless as you like. I build pads from strings with it because I *love* its particular bias against high frequencies (hence _decapitator_).

The first minuteish of this track is the Olafur Arnalds SF lib (not chamber but the other one). I started with the ‘Beefy’ preset, adjusted the high cut and a few other tiny tweaks. 



You don’t have to go as wet as this to get interesting results. But Decapitator is one of my favorite plugins - it’s the closest thing I’ve found to a _make warm_ button


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## jcrosby (Aug 12, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> So just putting it on with its default settings? I like fiddling, but I also like to know what the more professional mixers do, as I trust their ears more than mine



It really is that straightforward... The only thing to be aware of is that gain staging has a huge impact on how Decapitator sounds, the higher the incoming signal the more distortion. (Calibrated to 0 VU/-18 dBFS I believe)... So if it sounds muddy you're signal's either too hot, or you might want to roll off some low end with an EQ before it...

I use it on strings and brass most, but it can be nice on an orchestra bus as well. If I want warm I run it at unity, if I want something to bite I cut lows using the filter, give it a generous amount of drive, adjust the mix and see what adjusting the tone knob does and see which pre I like. It's that straightforward...

The preamps are: A = Ampex 350 Tape Pre
E = Chandler/EMI TG Channel Pre
N = Neve 1057
T = Culture Vulture Triode
P = Culture Vulture Pentode.

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/decapitator-with-orchestral-music.72242/#post-4266759
(Page 6.)


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## KEM (Aug 12, 2018)

Junkie showed a trick using it with short strings that I really like using. Basically you copy over the same track, throw massive amounts of Decapitator on it to where it’s completely distorted, and then throw on low and high pass filters and then pan it from left to right. You’ll have to turn it down quite a bit obviously, but it sounds awesome.


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## jamwerks (Aug 12, 2018)

Great thread!


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## Alex Niedt (Aug 13, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> Is it such a big secret that the masters won’t talk about it, or does anyone here use it and willing to share some settings or advice?


There really aren't any "secrets" that aren't already all over the internet. Decapitator is basically just a distortion plug-in. Subtle amounts of harmonic distortion can be useful, but it's also really easy to overdo it (just like practically any other technique or effect). You don't need a course on how to use it. Turn the knobs and listen. If you like how it sounds, great. If not, remove it. You'll figure out what it does to the sound, and then you can apply it when you need that sound. It's definitely not something to add by default just because Alan Meyerson or Junkle XL uses it. When you add a plug-in to a track, make sure you have a purpose for doing so. Also, make sure you compensate for the gain it adds so you don't fall for the "louder is better" effect. As far as settings, the context of every track/mix is different, so I'd recommend setting it (and every other plug-in) by ear rather than going off settings other people are using for completely different musical and sonic contexts. How other people use plug-ins is irrelevant. Trust your ear and experiment, experiment, experiment...


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## Glenn Broersma (Aug 13, 2018)

I use it on every single sound. Mixed in with dry/wet just a little.


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## KEM (Aug 19, 2018)

Since I got quite a bit of likes on my comment on the way Junkie uses it I figured I'd upload an example from something I made myself.



All the string ostinatos in the track are layered with the technique that Junkie uses, it's subtle, and isn't something you'd probably catch unless you we're looking out for it, but it adds a nice texture that I think sounds really cool.


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## dgburns (Aug 19, 2018)

The notes you write are way more important then the fairy dust sprinkles this plugin does for you.

imho

(and soundradix drum leveller is a great alternative for recorded drum levelling, fyi)


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## Glenn Broersma (Aug 20, 2018)

dgburns said:


> The notes you write are way more important then the fairy dust sprinkles this plugin does for you.



That is another topic


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## Ollie (Aug 20, 2018)

KEM said:


> Since I got quite a bit of likes on my comment on the way Junkie uses it I figured I'd upload an example from something I made myself.
> 
> 
> 
> All the string ostinatos in the track are layered with the technique that Junkie uses, it's subtle, and isn't something you'd probably catch unless you we're looking out for it, but it adds a nice texture that I think sounds really cool.




do you have a link to where he explained this technique?


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## JohnG (Aug 20, 2018)

dgburns said:


> The notes you write are way more important then the fairy dust sprinkles this plugin does for you.



I think whether the notes or the fairy dust matter more depends, alas, on the setting in which someone's listening to one's music. When I have witnessed the amount of attention given to audition my own music, it is a good reminder that the _sound_ of first five seconds can be decisive.

I have sat in a producer's office and watched her go through my tracks in about a minute -- all of them in one minute -- skipping to the next track after, at most, 10 seconds each. At least they were being played back through external speakers; little speakers, but better than a laptop's tiny ones.

When people come to my studio to hear a playback, sometimes they start talking after listening for only a few seconds. Hopefully it's with "gosh, the greatest cue EVER WRITTEN," but either way, the patience to listen and reserve judgement even for 30 seconds together is not ubiquitous.

There are exceptions. I am pitching for a job I'd quite like to get and wrote a 4 minute demo that my agent swears was listened to all the way through.

I hope you know @dgburns that I agree that, to be a better composer, many would do well to spend more time on choosing notes than fiddling with settings on plugins. There's also the unfortunate suspicion that quite a few people spend 95% on mixing and neglect composing. That said, these days, I argue: "ignore mixing tricks at your peril."

Unless one is maybe John Williams or a Newman or something.


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## KEM (Aug 20, 2018)

Ollie said:


> do you have a link to where he explained this technique?



I forgot what exact video it is but I know for a fact it’s in his Tomb Raider series.


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## dgburns (Aug 21, 2018)

JohnG said:


> I think whether the notes or the fairy dust matter more depends, alas, on the setting in which someone's listening to one's music. When I have witnessed the amount of attention given to audition my own music, it is a good reminder that the _sound_ of first five seconds can be decisive.
> 
> I have sat in a producer's office and watched her go through my tracks in about a minute -- all of them in one minute -- skipping to the next track after, at most, 10 seconds each. At least they were being played back through external speakers; little speakers, but better than a laptop's tiny ones.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I hear ya. I have also witnessed that ‘demo skimming’ thing. Thing is, I’ve come to realize that people are just risk averse. They just want to hear THEIR project somewhere in your arsenal of tunes. Zero risk if they hear something you did that is exactly what they need.
I’m currently scoring an X files/ stranger things inspired show. The director is a long time collaborator of mine. He needed me to demo for the gig, and even after hearing my demo, the producer was concerend that I was maybe not the right guy cause the stuff was not exactly like he needed for his show. My director assured him I was his guy, and the rest is history. Demo’s are not are friends sometimes. What to include, what to exclude. Even if you put together the best demo, you still face that ‘risk averse’ I’ve never worked with this guy thing. It all goes away after one season, or production cycle. But MAN, it’s hell while you need to overcome the initial ‘hidden objections’ and gain the confidence of the team.

I understand now more than at any time, the need for a strong brand and reputation. It goes a long way to making life easier while you go about your business.

Decapitator holds no value in that conversation. Mostly because it’s just a tool, like others that can get me to the finish line with no regret. But I’ll happily reach for it over others when it’s the right tool. Butno director would ever tell me that the cue is not approved until I put up a decapitator on my track before output. He wouldn’t even know to ask 

I know you know all this stuff too, I’m just jammin’ while cooking dinner


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## JohnG (Aug 21, 2018)

dgburns said:


> Demo’s are not are friends sometimes. What to include, what to exclude. Even if you put together the best demo, you still face that ‘risk averse’ I’ve never worked with this guy thing.



Unquestionably that is all true -- demos raise all kinds of problems with clashing creative concepts, misunderstanding of sometimes-second-hand directions, and in some cases, insufficient sample or instrument resources.

Production

But another -- in some cases fatal -- defect of demos can be their production value. Most people* don't spend the kind of money to hire players, engineer, etc. on a demo that they would on a final production, so almost inevitably, it's not going to be our strongest work (assuming it has an acoustic thrust).

And it's for exactly that reason that I've paid a bit more attention to mixing in the last year or so -- I'm not spending $10k for a demo, so I need to push my technique a bit to help things sound better. Those deciding on hiring composers clearly expect nothing less than the sound of a track from a recent soundtrack release. I feel that I have some of the best samples you can get, outside of private libraries, but putting that last 10% on the sound has, I think, improved the response to what I put out there.

As you wrote, people _are_ risk-averse and I'm trying to reduce the number of pretexts for them to say "no."

*One of my friends does spend money for live players when he really wants a gig. And not just a soloist.


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