# Piano In Blue Discussion



## synthpunk (Jan 5, 2018)

I have always had a love/hate thing with this library. The piano, process, and history if Clinton Recording (rip) and Columbia Records, Kind OF Blue, etc. has always fascinated me. BUT, I have always had a issue with the library's playability and infamous noise buildup issue.

I'm just upgrading from V2 to V2.2 this weekend so forgive me if I'm missing anything obvious.

But a recent conversation started with another forum member @Vin reignited a bit of interest along with the fact that quite a few people still name it as there favorite VST piano.

I played it a bit last night again and said to myself, there are some things to really like about this piano.

What are some of the things you do such as editing the velocity curve, mic mixing, tape/sample start, built in verb or external vst and additional plugins like EQ's, comps, etc. to make it better ?

I use a 88 note weighted controller. TX!!!


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## joed (Jan 5, 2018)

Hi Synthpunk, i like to use just the close mics, adjust the "height" parameter up a bit and i like the NI RC48 reverb set to medium hall wit a dry/wet of 65/35. Obviously, i wouldn't use this setting for everything, but for just noodling around, i like it. 
Like you, i have mixed feelings about this instrument. Some days it's just the right thing, others, not so much.


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## fido94 (Jan 5, 2018)

Not much editing on my side. I love the piano because I feel it sounds very "personal" and warm. 

I totally agree with the issues stated. I know our good friends at CineSamples (Mike & Mike) are long time members on vi-control. I wish they would do another update to the library to address key concerns. For me, the noise build-up is on top of the list.


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## CGR (Jan 5, 2018)

I've owned Piano in Blue for over 12 months, and find there is a certain elusive quality to it that I can't find in any other of the dozens of sampled pianos I own. When I get the right combination of mic & velocity settings (for me, usually 100% Close + 50% Surround, with the left velocity dial at 9 o'clock & the right at 2 o'clock - using a Yamaha CP4 stage 88 key triple sensor weighted action) and matched to a suitable musical piece and context, it's wonderful, soulful & authentic to my ears. A very lyrical piano with which I can make a melody line really sing, and the bass is rich & deep without the boominess of some sampled pianos.

I mostly use a moderate amount of the built in Amsterdam hall reverb, but an external EQ where I pull down some frequencies around 250Hz & 800Hz, to clean up some 'mud' a bit.


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## Fleer (Jan 5, 2018)

Would love them to upgrade it and turn it into a Kontakt Player lib with library pane presence and NKS compatibility.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Jan 6, 2018)

synthpunk said:


> I have always had a love/hate thing with this library. The piano, process, and history if Clinton Recording (rip) and Columbia Records, Kind OF Blue, etc. has always fascinated me. BUT, I have always had a issue with the library's playability and infamous noise buildup issue.
> 
> I'm just upgrading from V2 to V2.2 this weekend so forgive me if I'm missing anything obvious.
> 
> ...


I am on version 2.3?

Do you not have that one...


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## amsams (Jan 6, 2018)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> I am on version 2.3?
> 
> Do you not have that one...


So I seem to only have version 2.20. Logging in to my cinesamples account, this is all I have available: 

Version No2.20 Released: 10/22/2014. 

My NKI is v2_2. Was there an update released?


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## N.Caffrey (Jan 6, 2018)

amsams said:


> So I seem to only have version 2.20. Logging in to my cinesamples account, this is all I have available:
> 
> Version No2.20 Released: 10/22/2014.
> 
> My NKI is v2_2. Was there an update released?


Same here!


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## Paul Grymaud (Jan 6, 2018)

Works (and sounds) perfect with this piano


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## storyteller (Jan 6, 2018)

synthpunk said:


> I have always had a love/hate thing with this library. The piano, process, and history if Clinton Recording (rip) and Columbia Records, Kind OF Blue, etc. has always fascinated me. BUT, I have always had a issue with the library's playability and infamous noise buildup issue.
> 
> I'm just upgrading from V2 to V2.2 this weekend so forgive me if I'm missing anything obvious.
> 
> ...


There was a thread some time back (link here) where @prodigalson demonstrated an American Beauty mockup. It was really well done. I keep those same settings he used as a snapshot to use on occasion in my personal PIB. It is a really beautiful sound. Close mics 100%, Surround Mics 75%, built in reverb at 70% - everything else at defaults. Good stuff!


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## Letis (Jan 6, 2018)

actual version is 2.3, released in january 2017, referring to here: http://assets.cinesamples.com.s3.amazonaws.com/Library_Versions_List_5.pdf

but i also have just 2.20 from 2014 in my member account and there is no update option given...


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## playz123 (Jan 6, 2018)

Letis said:


> actual version is 2.3, released in january 2017, referring to here: http://assets.cinesamples.com.s3.amazonaws.com/Library_Versions_List_5.pdf
> 
> but i also have just 2.20 from 2014 in my member account and there is no update option given...


Wondering if that's just a typo because no one I know has been informed of any PIB update recently. Guess they could be behind or something due to the Christmas break though, but it's also a strange time of the year to be issuing updates.


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## sostenuto (Jan 6, 2018)

Ha !!! Fun to hear Greg Schlaepfer (OTS) on last Demo Track.  May push me over the top …….


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Jan 6, 2018)

playz123 said:


> Wondering if that's just a typo because no one I know has been informed of any PIB update recently. Guess they could be behind or something due to the Christmas break though, but it's also a strange time of the year to be issuing updates.



You should find that when you download the 2.2 Update there is a folder that says 2.3 Instruments
That is what I have


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## CGR (Jan 6, 2018)

playz123 said:


> Wondering if that's just a typo because no one I know has been informed of any PIB update recently. Guess they could be behind or something due to the Christmas break though, but it's also a strange time of the year to be issuing updates.


Just checked and I have V2.3, which I remember downloading from my Cinesamples account. The .NKI is dated 24th April 2017, and I downloaded the update in October 2017.


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## synthpunk (Jan 6, 2018)

I will have to wait to Monday, still waiting on CS to update some account info first for me.


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## playz123 (Jan 6, 2018)

CGR said:


> Just checked and I have V2.3, which I remember downloading from my Cinesamples account. The .NKI is dated 24th April 2017, and I downloaded the update in October 2017.


Well you are a lucky person then.  I did check my account before posting and all that is there is the 2.2 update. And @Shad0wLandsUK I also checked the 2.2 Instrument update in my account, and there are no 2.3 Instrument files included...which wouldn't make a lot of sense anyway (to me at least). Anyway, guess some here are blessed and some are not so it looks as if a support request to Cinesamples may be required, by me anyway.


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## chasmanian (Jan 6, 2018)

bought it recently per recommendation by friend.
just played it again for a bit.
wow, I love it. really interesting beautiful sounds.
stunningly delicious.


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## Vin (Jan 7, 2018)

I absolutely love it, but I agree that an update on that sustain noise would be welcome.



playz123 said:


> Well you are a lucky person then.  I did check my account before posting and all that is there is the 2.2 update. And @Shad0wLandsUK I also checked the 2.2 Instrument update in my account, and there are no 2.3 Instrument files included...which wouldn't make a lot of sense anyway (to me at least). Anyway, guess some here are blessed and some are not so it looks as if a support request to Cinesamples may be required, by me anyway.



I'm on 2.20 here as well, no 2.3 in my CineSamples user area.


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## wst3 (Jan 7, 2018)

ok, just checked, and the web site does in fact list the current version of PIB at 2.2, however, when I manually download the instruments zip file it is named 2.3, and that seems to be what it contains. I'll install it later today and let you know if I hear a difference.


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## vosk (Jan 8, 2018)

Any have problem with CC64?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 8, 2018)

Just the best for me. It’s full of character and has a roundness I just love, especially in the softer dynamics.


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## synthpunk (Jan 8, 2018)

hold pedal works fine here, but the noise buildup when using it is a issue I wish could be eliminated. 



vosk said:


> Any have problem with CC64?


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## Britpack50 (Jan 8, 2018)

synthpunk said:


> hold pedal works fine here, but the noise buildup when using it is a issue I wish could be eliminated.


+1


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## Letis (Jan 8, 2018)

playz123 said:


> Well you are a lucky person then.  I did check my account before posting and all that is there is the 2.2 update. And @Shad0wLandsUK I also checked the 2.2 Instrument update in my account, and there are no 2.3 Instrument files included...which wouldn't make a lot of sense anyway (to me at least). Anyway, guess some here are blessed and some are not so it looks as if a support request to Cinesamples may be required, by me anyway.



Support answered and told me to use the "Get Update 2.3" inside the member account..but @me there seems to be no such option ...(see attachment) . I bought this one in 2013 and already had one update to 2.2.. so perhaps only newer customers?..


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## synthpunk (Jan 8, 2018)

Please let them know.

I have also asked them if they could comment here on 2.3 and the sustain noise buildup.



Letis said:


> Support answered and told me to use the "Get Update 2.3" inside the member account..but @me there seems to be no such option ...(see attachment) . I bought this one in 2013 and already had one update to 2.2.. so perhaps only newer customers?..


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## vosk (Jan 9, 2018)

Letis said:


> Support answered and told me to use the "Get Update 2.3" inside the member account


yes, for 2.3 need download library again via downloader.


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## synthpunk (Jan 10, 2018)

same here, Anybody re-download/install the samples btw or just the Inst folder ?








vosk said:


> yes, for 2.3 need download library again via downloader.


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## playz123 (Jan 11, 2018)

synthpunk said:


> same here, Anybody re-download/install the samples btw or just the Inst folder ?


As with previous PIB updates, I just downloaded the Instrument .zip file. I don't think the samples need to be downloaded again as well, but correct me if I'm wrong. Everything seems to be working fine with the new instrument.


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## N.Caffrey (Dec 19, 2018)

ka00 said:


> Has the noise build up issue been solved, to anyone’s knowledge? I’d like to pick this up during the current 30% sale.
> 
> Thanks


Funny enough, I was right thinking about the noise the other day. On one line I had to remove the pedal to remove the hiss. I don't think anything has changed unfortunately


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## CGR (Dec 19, 2018)

In my opinion, the ongoing concerns about noise build up in Piano in Blue are detracting from what I believe is one of the most character-filled, warm & rich sounding sampled pianos out there. If you want a perfect, 'air-brushed', noise-free sampled piano, try The Granduer - but be prepared to feel underwhelmed by it's blandness.


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## N.Caffrey (Dec 19, 2018)

CGR said:


> In my opinion, the ongoing concerns about noise build up in Piano in Blue are detracting from what I believe is one of the most character-filled, warm & rich sounding sampled pianos out there. If you want a perfect, 'air-brushed', noise-free sampled piano, try The Granduer - but be prepared to feel underwhelmed by it's blandness.


I absolutely love the piano, I use it all the time, just sometimes the hiss can be a bit distracting.


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## ka00 (Dec 19, 2018)

CGR said:


> In my opinion, the ongoing concerns about noise build up in Piano in Blue are detracting from what I believe is one of the most character-filled, warm & rich sounding sampled pianos out there. If you want a perfect, 'air-brushed', noise-free sampled piano, try The Granduer - but be prepared to feel underwhelmed by it's blandness.



CGR, this isn't the first piano one of your posts (or compositions) has helped convince me to buy. Probably won't be the last, either.

Thanks to both of you for your input. Now where's my credit card?


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## CGR (Dec 19, 2018)

ka00 said:


> CGR, this isn't the first piano one of your posts (or compositions) has helped convince me to buy. Probably won't be the last, either.
> 
> Thanks to both of you for your input. Now where's my credit card?


Cheers! Maybe treat yourself to an early Xmas present


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## ka00 (Dec 19, 2018)

CGR said:


> Cheers! Maybe treat yourself to an early Xmas present



It’s gorgeous. No regrets. Thanks!


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## mojamusic (Dec 23, 2018)

This is by far my favorite piano library


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## Simeon (Jul 6, 2020)

Are there any descriptions for the three different instruments of Piano In Blue? 
I have really been enjoying this piano as others have said it has a very unique quality that is almost like a time machine taking you back into those original recording sessions. I have a saying that “sample libraries are destinations”, and Piano In Blue certainly lives up to that idea.


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## chasmanian (Jul 6, 2020)

I don't know. but I googled and found this.
it might be fun to watch. I loved this guy's Keyscape video.


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## chasmanian (Jul 6, 2020)

I kept googling.
read this:









Cinesamples Piano In Blue review


There was a time when recreating the sound of a piano with just a sampler, rather than a synth, was deemed 'real enough'.However, bigger and cheaper RAM, alongside hard-disk audio streaming,




www.musicradar.com


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## jimjazzuk (Jul 7, 2020)

I use it pretty much every day! It has some quirks, but then so does every real acoustic piano I've ever played on.

Here's something I wrote a few months back using Piano In Blue:


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## CGR (Jul 7, 2020)

chasmanian said:


> I don't know. but I googled and found this.
> it might be fun to watch. I loved this guy's Keyscape video.



I know Mike. A monster pianist and real nice guy too!


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## Rory (Jul 7, 2020)

jimjazzuk said:


> I use it pretty much every day! It has some quirks, but then so does every real acoustic piano I've ever played on.
> 
> Here's something I wrote a few months back using Piano In Blue:





I got a real kick out of this video on your channel. Lord knows how you got all these people to co-operate. The guy in the purple shirt sets a very poor example for British reserve


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## jimjazzuk (Jul 7, 2020)

Rory said:


> I got a real kick out of this video on your channel. Lord knows how you got all these people to co-operate. The guy in the purple shirt sets a very poor example for British reserve



Many thanks... the piano is Piano in Blue again!


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## Simeon (Jul 7, 2020)

jimjazzuk said:


> I use it pretty much every day! It has some quirks, but then so does every real acoustic piano I've ever played on.
> 
> Here's something I wrote a few months back using Piano In Blue:




Beautiful,
First notes reminded me of “UP”, very nice.
Piano In Blue is a beautiful mystery indeed.


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## Simeon (Jul 7, 2020)

Simeon said:


> Are there any descriptions for the three different instruments of Piano In Blue?
> I have really been enjoying this piano as others have said it has a very unique quality that is almost like a time machine taking you back into those original recording sessions. I have a saying that “sample libraries are destinations”, and Piano In Blue certainly lives up to that idea.



- SOLVED - 
So it seems the different NKI Instruments refer to past releases of the piano (v2.1, v2.2, and v2.3).






They were retained to be backward compatible with user projects created with previous versions of the library.


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## Mike Fox (Jul 7, 2020)

jimjazzuk said:


> I use it pretty much every day! It has some quirks, but then so does every real acoustic piano I've ever played on.
> 
> Here's something I wrote a few months back using Piano In Blue:



Nicely done! Beautiful, yet haunting. 

Had me at "Paris Ghosts" on that one.


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## Mike Fox (Jul 7, 2020)

Rory said:


> I got a real kick out of this video on your channel. Lord knows how you got all these people to co-operate. The guy in the purple shirt sets a very poor example for British reserve



That actually was pretty entertaining!


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## Rory (Jul 7, 2020)

I've come across a number of reservations about playability, specifically in relation to dynamics. This 2018 review in German suggests that the issue hasn't been sorted out in the updates: https://www.pianoo.de/test/cinesamples-piano-in-blue-vintage-piano-library/. Interested to know what people who have this library think about this question. By the way, the review includes two demo tracks.

*From the German*:

"Dynamik ja, aber am besten leise

"In der Mitte können wir die Velocity-Kurve einstellen, also festlegen, wie der Klang auf verschieden stark angeschlagene Noten auf der Tastatur reagieren soll. Hiermit lässt sich das MIDI-Keyboard auf die Library abstimmen. Trotzdem ist die Dynamik mitunter schwer in den Griff zu kriegen, wenn es darum geht, auf einem gewichteten Masterkeyboard eine überzeugende Dynamikkurve hinzubekommen. So ging es zumindest mir mit meinen beiden MIDI-Tastaturen.

"Aber wie gesagt: Greife ich zum Piano in Blue, weiß ich schon, in welchen dynamischen Gefilden ich mich vorwiegend aufhalten möchte."

*Google translate*:

"Dynamic, yes, but preferably quiet

"In the middle we can set the velocity curve, i.e. how the sound should react to notes on the keyboard that are struck at different levels. This allows the MIDI keyboard to be matched to the library. Nevertheless, the dynamics are sometimes difficult to control when it comes to getting a convincing dynamic curve on a weighted master keyboard. At least that's how it was with my two MIDI keyboards.

"But as I said: If I pick up the piano in blue, I already know in which dynamic realm I want to stay."


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## Rory (Jul 7, 2020)

Further to the above post, I'm fairly interested in this library. Are there other good options for a similar sound? If so, which?

Thanks


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## Buz (Jul 7, 2020)

In terms of dynamics it's one of those libraries that sounds amazing but not precisely what you actually played. Whether it's a dealbreaker or an advantage depends on genre. 

Also I think legato might be broken currently (I talked to support but that dried up). The older patches work great other than noise issues.


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## Fleer (Jul 7, 2020)

Rory said:


> Further to the above post, I'm fairly interested in this library. Are there other good options for a similar sound? If so, which?
> 
> Thanks


Its CineSamples sibling CinePiano is worth looking into. It’s Kontakt Player to boot.


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## Rory (Jul 7, 2020)

Fleer said:


> Its CineSamples sibling CinePiano is worth looking into. It’s Kontakt Player to boot.




Currently more than three times the price, too 

But hey, I didn't specify cheap, did I.

Thanks


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## Thundercat (Jul 7, 2020)

jimjazzuk said:


> I use it pretty much every day! It has some quirks, but then so does every real acoustic piano I've ever played on.
> 
> Here's something I wrote a few months back using Piano In Blue:



WOW! INCREDIBLE MUSIC AND PLAYING! And with the video, so incredibly meaningful and moving. Thank-you SO MUCH for sharing this masterpiece!!!!


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## SupremeFist (Jul 8, 2020)

Rory said:


> Further to the above post, I'm fairly interested in this library. Are there other good options for a similar sound? If so, which?
> 
> Thanks


Plenty of PiB fans round here don't have issues with the dynamics. I think it's unrivalled for _that _sound, though the Simple Sam Steinway comes close in some respects (and is excellent in its own right).


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## Rory (Jul 8, 2020)

Turns out that one of the participants in this forum, @Lukas, wrote the review of Piano in Blue that I quoted above (post 51). He confirms that here: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/recommendation-for-a-jazz-piano.86191/post-4595166


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## Simeon (Jul 15, 2020)

Just having some fun with Piano In Blue today.
I am working on a followup review soon.
Hope you enjoy?


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## juven (Feb 19, 2021)

It uses piano in blue.


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## juven (Feb 19, 2021)

This also uses piano in blue.


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## Simeon (Feb 19, 2021)

juven said:


> It uses piano in blue.



Very nice, thanks so much for sharing.


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## mojamusic (Feb 20, 2021)

juven said:


> It uses piano in blue.



Wow! Beautiful! This piano sure can weep! How did you process PiB? What bass are you using?


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## juven (Feb 21, 2021)

mojamusic said:


> Wow! Beautiful! This piano sure can weep! How did you process PiB? What bass are you using?


Thanks for listening.
It was mixed a long time ago, so I don't remember the detailed settings, but I think it's very simple.
No external reverb, just PiB room ambience (i.e. the room ambience or surround of Clinton Recording Studios just before it closed). Bass is probably Trilian.
I think it was mixed with a transparent BusComp like Unisum and adjusted a bit with Sontec432 master EQ plugin.
Both PiB and Trilian sound beautiful, so it was important for me not to disturb the good material.


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## juven (Feb 21, 2021)

Simeon said:


> Very nice, thanks so much for sharing.


Thanks simeon, I always enjoy your videos.


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## SupremeFist (Feb 21, 2021)

juven said:


> Thanks for listening.
> It was mixed a long time ago, so I don't remember the detailed settings, but I think it's very simple.
> No external reverb, just PiB room ambience (i.e. the room ambience or surround of Clinton Recording Studios just before it closed). Bass is probably Trilian.
> I think it was mixed with a transparent BusComp like Unisum and adjusted a bit with Sontec432 master EQ plugin.
> Both PiB and Trilian sound beautiful, so it was important for me not to disturb the good material.


It sounds absolutely beautiful. For pure tone and vibe I think PiB is still among the very best piano VIs that money can buy.


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## juven (Sep 4, 2021)

It's been a while since I posted anything.
I still think PIB is good.
For JAZZ piano, this is the first choice.
It's also perfect for backing.
Please listen to it if you like.


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## ChickenAndARoll (Oct 8, 2021)

Apparently Piano in Blue got updated, de-noised, and is now a Kontakt Player library?


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## Simeon (Oct 8, 2021)

ChickenAndARoll said:


> Apparently Piano in Blue got updated, de-noised, and is now a Kontakt Player library?


Yep, I also recieved the email earlier.
It looks as if it will be some sort of “paid” upgrade for current owners.


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## Buz (Oct 8, 2021)

The page is a little cryptic. They published changes that happened many years ago. Although the wording implies it's also had a recent "meticulous treatment". Anyone see a changelog?


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## KEM (Oct 8, 2021)

Piano in Blue was one of the first pianos I ever bought but the sound just doesn’t gel with me, I’m addicted to the Malmsjö and don’t think I’ll every use anything else


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## Simeon (Oct 8, 2021)

Buz said:


> The page is a little cryptic. They published changes that happened many years ago. Although the wording implies it's also had a recent "meticulous treatment". Anyone see a changelog?


Here is a little more detail as you look near the bottom of the page below “About The Product”.
I would agree that is seems confusing as they did mention the denoising, etc as part of an earlier update.


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## David Cuny (Oct 9, 2021)

I'd heard the Cinesamples had recently adjusted prices to better reflect what they believed the true value of their products.

I just visited the website and got a severe case of sticker shock. 

On the plus side, it'll help keep my GAS under control.


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## kgdrum (Oct 9, 2021)

Besides the stating PIB will have to pay to upgrade I see no real mention of an improved PIB for the user. Unless I'm not comprehending exactly what this update will actually offer people that already have PIB, i really don’t care if it’s been updated for the Kontakt player or Komplete Kontrol. I’m starting to think Cinesamples is going down a path that I’m not comfortable following. The direction Cinesamples seems to be going looks like a money grab for the developer and frankly I am having trouble seeing how this benefits long time customers in any way shape or form.
I actually hope I’m wrong with this and I’m overlooking some impoctant details making my apprehension baseless.
Does anyone else here share my thoughts with this or can they shed some light on something that I’m not understanding?

Thanks


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 9, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> Besides the stating PIB will have to pay to upgrade I see no real mention of an improved PIB for the user. Unless I'm not comprehending exactly what this update will actually offer people that already have PIB, i really don’t care if it’s been updated for the Kontakt player or Komplete Kontrol. I’m starting to think Cinesamples is going down a path that I’m not comfortable following. The direction Cinesamples seems to be going looks like a money grab for the developer and frankly I am having trouble seeing how this benefits long time customers In any way shape or form.
> I actually hope I’m wrong with this and I’m overlooking some impoctant details making my apprehension baseles.
> Does anyone else here share my thoughts with this or can they shed some light on something that I’m not understanding?
> 
> Thanks


Yes. I don't think original users should pay for this "upgrade".


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## doctoremmet (Oct 9, 2021)

Anyone receive that voucher yet? VERY curious what the price will be for this “upgrade” / money grab. I did get the generic announcement mail, but not my “dear owner” mail.


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## CeDur (Oct 9, 2021)

I bought Cinepiano, it has obvious technical issues (not only me experiencing them), I cannot resell it nor return and Cinesamples wrote in an email that they are working on update. If it will be a paid one as it is the case with PiB, I'm not spending a single dollar on them, ever.


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## kgdrum (Oct 9, 2021)

@Simeon
Yeah I saw those details and frankly it does not indicate any improvements or changes that matter to me as a user & I doubt this will even be worth the time updating even if this was free. What percentage of longtime users will even care about this being available for the Kontakt Player or Komplete Kontrol?
Besides the obvious transparent money grab the direction Cinesamples seems to be pursuing with this new company structure. This is making me a bit queasy as well as saddened seeing the new direction Cinesamples as a developer is all about presently.
Sad to see 🤨


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## CGR (Oct 9, 2021)

I can understand from a developer's point of view to move products to Kontakt Player from a security/piracy perspective, but I'd hope any improvements would be available to the original Piano in Blue customers at no cost (as a full Kontakt version) given that the Kontakt Player & NKS compatibility would be a mute point for many (if not most).


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## Fleer (Oct 9, 2021)

Fleer said:


> Would love them to upgrade it and turn it into a Kontakt Player lib with library pane presence and NKS compatibility.


They did! Simply wonderful. I for one love the fact to have my Kontakt libs proudly present in the library pane. Thanks, CineSamples.


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## filipjonathan (Oct 9, 2021)

Honestly, with their 'coming soon' products, upping prices, paid upgrades for existing users, I'm getting quite disappointed with a once one of the top companies for virtual instruments. I don't know what changed (I assume the management) but all of that just makes me not want to do anything with them.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 9, 2021)

Fleer said:


> They did! Simply wonderful. I for one love the fact to have my Kontakt libs proudly present in the library pane. Thanks, CineSamples.


You’d pay extra for the privilege? Honest question.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 9, 2021)

ka00 said:


> I have to assume this forthcoming upgrade coupon will make the update/serial free for current owners.


Until proven otherwise, I’ll assume the same. But reading this… the word _purchase_ is not exactly promising?


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## juven (Oct 9, 2021)

I was going to post another video using PIB, but there was talk of an upgrade... well, I wonder what will happen.
I've heard that they've removed the noise, but the noise creates a nice atmosphere in some ways, so even if they do upgrade, I hope they make both the old version and the clean version available.

Again, if you don't mind...


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Oct 9, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Until proven otherwise, I’ll assume the same. But reading this… the word _purchase_ is not exactly promising?


I have looked in my account at CS and it shows PiB 3.0 in my purchased products
However, I thought I would go to NI Access and see it there, but nothing so far

So not sure where I am going to get the update?...
Does not look like I need to purchase it though


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## Marsen (Oct 9, 2021)

I received the code. It's 20 $ upgrade price for existing owners. 
I would not have a problem with this "fee", but they also changed their shop system to fast spring, which means tax on top, which wasn't the case before.
This annoyed me a bit. Now I 'm not sure updating Pib.


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## kgdrum (Oct 9, 2021)

Marsen said:


> I received the code. It's 20 $ upgrade price for existing owners.
> I would not have a problem with this "fee", but they also changed their shop system to fast spring, which means tax on top, which wasn't the case before.
> This annoyed me a bit. Now I 'm not sure updating Pib.


$20 isn’t as bad price wise as I was anticipating but it irks me that they are charging users $ for an update that really doesn’t improve the library for me as a user.


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## Marsen (Oct 9, 2021)

I thought, there was some improvement too? Just a label in Kontakt?
Why should I update then?
Anyway, I still think Cinesamples is a great developer, and will be in the future. 
They earn my full respect for their libraries.


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## thesteelydane (Oct 9, 2021)

jimjazzuk said:


> Many thanks... the piano is Piano in Blue again!


That was bloody BRILLIANT! Put a smile on my face!


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## lettucehat (Oct 9, 2021)

I hope that similar updates for existing users don't go much beyond $20. I don't think I'll pay that for PiB until I see what other updates come along - feels a little weird to have to budget for de-noising updates (don't care about the Player library tab but I understand). We'll see if the other updates in the works are more substantial, and whether that means proportional update fees or it's just flat. Maybe it's just for the move to encoded Player library, and the others that will be updated (Strings? Winds? All?) won't necessitate any fee. They did so many huge updates in the past for free, so here's hoping they stick with that.


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## David Cuny (Oct 9, 2021)

Marsen said:


> I thought, there was some improvement too? Just a label in Kontakt?
> Why should I update then?


Per the Cinesamples website (scroll to the bottom to "About The Product"):



> The Direct samples have been meticulously treated and de-noised for this latest update. The library had undergone de-noising for a previous update, and this was done again for the Direct samples for the latest NKS update in the fall of 2021. This newest treatment allows the warm richness of the library to come through cleanly and expose the character of this instrument in a natural, playable, controlled way.


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## lettucehat (Oct 9, 2021)

So it was... re-de-noised?


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## David Cuny (Oct 9, 2021)

lettucehat said:


> So it was... re-de-noised?


Yes.


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## Marsen (Oct 9, 2021)

David Cuny said:


> Per the Cinesamples website:


This link for me don't lead to these statements, but thanks for pointing this out.


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## David Cuny (Oct 9, 2021)

Marsen said:


> This link for me don't lead to these statements, but thanks for pointing this out.


Scroll to the bottom of the page. I've updated my comment.


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## kgdrum (Oct 9, 2021)

David Cuny said:


> Per the Cinesamples website (scroll to the bottom to "About The Product"):


Thanks @David Cuny 
I’m always thrilled to see if someone has a superior reading comprehension skillset, I never would have noticed this.👍


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## alanmcp (Oct 9, 2021)

Marsen said:


> I received the code. It's 20 $ upgrade price for existing owners.
> I would not have a problem with this "fee", but they also changed their shop system to fast spring, which means tax on top, which wasn't the case before.
> This annoyed me a bit. Now I 'm not sure updating Pib.


Hi, 
It's been Fastspring for a few years now because I've always been tempted when sales are on then go elsewhere because of the extra tax on top. If you're Uk based then Best Service is the best place to buy Cinesamples now in Euros.. price you see is the price you pay , then convert to GB pounds yourself using a currency converter.


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## kgdrum (Oct 9, 2021)

alanmcp said:


> Hi,
> It's been Fastspring for a few years now because I've always been tempted when sales are on then go elsewhere because of the extra tax on top. If you're Uk based then Best Service is the best place to buy Cinesamples now in Euros.. price you see is the price you pay , then convert to GB pounds yourself using a currency converter.


agree +1 besides the sales tax (which frankly I don’t mind paying) I like Best Service as a shop : great support & customer service and from my perch they consistently have the best deals on everything Toontrack!


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## Fleer (Oct 9, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> You’d pay extra for the privilege? Honest question.


Well, already did with Mike’s Realivox Blue last year. 
Add better de-noising and upgrading PiB to the latest Kontakt Player version is worth it IMO, even more so than with Realivox.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 9, 2021)

I don't remember if there's a way to disable RR in PIB, but if there is, I'd be very interested in hearing what PIB2.0 null-tested against PIB3.0 sounds like?


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## doctoremmet (Oct 9, 2021)

Fleer said:


> Well, already did with Mike’s Realivox Blue last year.
> Add better de-noising and upgrading PiB to the latest Kontakt Player version is worth it IMO, even more so than with Realivox.


Gotcha. I initially thought the “library art” in Kontakt would be worth it to you, which -to be clear- is perfectly fine as well of course. I am also fine with paying a small fee for meaningful updates. I did that for Century Strings 2.0 for instance. And I’m a happy Waves Update Plan payer hehe. In the PIB case I was under the impression it is more of a money grab, my “spidey sense” is still tinglin’, after the recent “we’re significantly raising prices right before the 19th 50% off sale” and a re-denoising of the same PIB samples does sound just a TAD silly to me. So in this case I’ll wait and see what the verdict will be…


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## sostenuto (Oct 9, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Gotcha. I initially thought the “library art” in Kontakt would be worth it to you, which -to be clear- is perfectly fine as well of course. I am also fine with paying a small fee for meaningful updates. I did that for Century Strings 2.0 for instance. And I’m a happy Waves Update Plan payer hehe. In the PIB case I was under the impression it is more of a money grab, my “spidey sense” is still tinglin’, after the recent “we’re siginificantly raising prices right before the 19th 50% off sale” and a re-denoising of the same PIB samples does sound just a TAD silly to me. So in this case I’ll wait and see what the verdict will be…


Waaay past bedtime ! 😲


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## ag75 (Oct 9, 2021)

storyteller said:


> There was a thread some time back (link here) where @prodigalson demonstrated an American Beauty mockup. It was really well done. I keep those same settings he used as a snapshot to use on occasion in my personal PIB. It is a really beautiful sound. Close mics 100%, Surround Mics 75%, built in reverb at 70% - everything else at defaults. Good stuff!


Do you have a link to this? I would love to recreate that sound.


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## storyteller (Oct 9, 2021)

ag75 said:


> Do you have a link to this? I would love to recreate that sound.








Anybody have Cinesamples 'Piano in Blue'?


You said you wanted to see if it could do the Thomas Newman sound so I did a quick version of the American Beauty Theme. Piano in Blue out of the box. Only a light EQ curve to try to match the original version and a Valhalla verb for some glue on the whole track. I loved the sound you...




vi-control.net





post #42


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## ag75 (Oct 9, 2021)

storyteller said:


> Anybody have Cinesamples 'Piano in Blue'?
> 
> 
> You said you wanted to see if it could do the Thomas Newman sound so I did a quick version of the American Beauty Theme. Piano in Blue out of the box. Only a light EQ curve to try to match the original version and a Valhalla verb for some glue on the whole track. I loved the sound you...
> ...


Thank you!


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## NekujaK (Oct 9, 2021)

I realize this is slightly off topic, but from the perspective of a full Kontakt user, I've never understood the benefit of having libraries appear in the Browser panel.

I organize my libraries in Quickload folders where they're arranged in a way that makes sense for me, and the Browser panel stays hidden. Graphic logo panels and libraries listed alphabetically do nothing to help me work more effectively. Consequently, it irritates me when we're forced to pay a premium for Kontakt Player libraries.

For folks who only have Kontakt Player, I suppose there's some benefit, but actually if you take a big picture view, the cost of investing in full Kontakt is miniscule relative to all the expensive libraries someone ends up buying at premium prices.

Sorry, just had to vent a little. There's just nothing about this PiB "upgrade" that seems all that meaningful for us users. IMHO they should've focused their efforts on fixing the playability of this library and left everything else as it was.

Oh well...


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## Marsen (Oct 10, 2021)

alanmcp said:


> Hi,
> It's been Fastspring for a few years now because I've always been tempted when sales are on then go elsewhere because of the extra tax on top. If you're Uk based then Best Service is the best place to buy Cinesamples now in Euros.. price you see is the price you pay , then convert to GB pounds yourself using a currency converter.


I just bought last year directly from Cinesamples, and there was no Fastspring and no tax added.


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## Fleer (Oct 10, 2021)

NekujaK said:


> I realize this is slightly off topic, but from the perspective of a full Kontakt user, I've never understood the benefit of having libraries appear in the Browser panel.
> 
> I organize my libraries in Quickload folders where they're arranged in a way that makes sense for me, and the Browser panel stays hidden. Graphic logo panels and libraries listed alphabetically do nothing to help me work more effectively. Consequently, it irritates me when we're forced to pay a premium for Kontakt Player libraries.
> 
> ...


I understand. Been using full Kontakt for many years. Yet some of us do like a bit of graphic razzmatazz in that library pane.


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## SupremeFist (Oct 10, 2021)

David Cuny said:


> Per the Cinesamples website (scroll to the bottom to "About The Product"):


Does this mean they took the denoised samples from the last update and denoised them again? And if so is that really a good idea? Or have they re-denoised the originals?


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## doctoremmet (Oct 10, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Does this mean they took the denoised samples from the last update and denoised them again? And if so is that really a good idea? Or have they re-denoised the originals?


They finally caved and bought Izotope 9 Advanced on sale, and have re-de-de-re-re-noised the samples with it.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Oct 10, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Does this mean they took the denoised samples from the last update and denoised them again? And if so is that really a good idea? Or have they re-denoised the originals?


All I can say to this, is that there appears to be more noise about this now than the original samples had before...

This release certainly has generated a lot of noise, if you know what I mean


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## rocking.xmas.man (Oct 10, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Does this mean they took the denoised samples from the last update and denoised them again? And if so is that really a good idea? Or have they re-denoised the originals?


The way I read this is: in update 1 they went through some individual direct samples and removed noises (like singular sounds, not constant noise) - more to think of as repair work, not so much denoising. In Update 2 they re-did all the tape samples including denoising and now they did a general denoising of all the direct sample.


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## Thundercat (Oct 10, 2021)

They state “Due to the digital nature of their products, they do not have a way to offer refunds…”

I don’t like it when they blatantly lie to ppl.


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## ScarletJerry (Oct 10, 2021)

It may be just me, but denoising Piano in Blue is like Spitfire saying that they will remove the room reverb from Abbey Road One To get a crisper sound. The noise adds to the character of the Piano, in my opinion. I guess I will have to wait until someone posts a before and after comparison.


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## moon (Oct 10, 2021)

Anybody besides @Marsen gotten the coupon yet?


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 10, 2021)

I didn't; but I bought PIB from bestservice.com with a straight download link.

On a more general note, in view of recent events, it SEEMS to me, like Cinesamples are being "looted" by the new management to squeeze as much as they can from the user-base and close shop in a couple of years.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Oct 10, 2021)

moon said:


> Anybody besides @Marsen gotten the coupon yet?


Not yet and it has been days now


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## Marsen (Oct 11, 2021)

moon said:


> Anybody besides @Marsen gotten the coupon yet?


Well I directly asked support for the coupon.


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## kilgurt (Oct 11, 2021)

Vin said:


> I absolutely love it, but I agree that an update on that sustain noise would be welcome.
> I'm on 2.20 here as well, no 2.3 in my CineSamples user area.


Same here - no email so far with an _upgrade coupon. _
Anybody else?


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## rocking.xmas.man (Oct 11, 2021)

Weil, I See ist under „my products“ but have no clue how to download… having patience


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## jadedsean (Oct 11, 2021)

What i don't understand is, why they did not do the de-noising process right in the first place which would mean there is no need for this update. Definitley seems like a money grab to me. Although not an exspensive upgrade but this leads me to belive that Cinesamples may employ this tacked on older products.


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## prodigalson (Oct 11, 2021)

Wait, they just denoised the samples again and are charging for the upgrade???

This can’t be true.


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## NekujaK (Oct 11, 2021)

I think they're charging for the upgrade because they made it a Kontakt Player library, and have to recoup something for the additional fee they have to pay to NI. Ugh.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 11, 2021)

Hey everybody! Steve from Cinesamples here -- I wanted to jump in on this thread and address any questions you may have about the new upgrade for Piano In Blue.

I'd like to take a moment to share what's new in the latest version, why this is a paid upgrade, and what you can expect to see for the other forthcoming updates we've been teasing this year. I know a lot of you have been waiting patiently to hear more news from us, and we're finally getting to the point where we can start sharing some of what we've been working on! 

Piano In Blue was originally released several years ago as a non-encoded library, requiring the full Kontakt. Having Native Instruments encode libraries for the free Kontakt Player/Komplete Kontrol plugins, as well as having them available for installation via Native Access and able to sit in the Libraries tab of Kontakt for easy access, adds to the cost of production. NI charges us encoding fees for the library itself, as well as for the purchase of serial codes. This is why there is an upgrade fee associated with these situations, when an originally non-encoded library is sent to NI post-release. For Piano In Blue, the upgrade fee is $20.

The libraries that have gone through this re-encoding in the past are CineWinds CORE and PRO (December 2015) and CinePerc (March 2016, also combining the four CinePerc CORE/PRO/EPIC/AUX libraries into one package). Piano In Blue is now the latest re-encoded library, and we have several more similar upgrades coming soon for other currently non-encoded products.

Releasing non-encoded products like Piano In Blue, Drums of War, and Viola da Gamba has allowed us to better control our release schedule and production costs, since we don't have to send the library to NI and wait for them to encode it. The prevalance of the full Kontakt as an industry-standard tool made this a great option for us on the production side as well as for customers who don't care about Libraries sidebar graphics. Now with a new generation of music makers discovering the world of creative tools available in the Kontakt Player and NKS ecosystem, we are eager to make as many products available for this format as we can. 

*That's great for new customers, but what do you get for the upgrade as an owner of the previous version?*

- A whole new sample set for the Direct mics, treated for noise reduction
- Script updates to improve performance, taking advantage of enhancements to the Kontakt engine itself since PIB was released
- Easy access via the Libraries sidebar in Kontakt
- Integration with the Komplete Kontrol keyboard interface and NKS
- Installation via the Native Access application

Keep an eye out in your email for your upgrade coupon -- if it doesn't look like it came through, ping me at [email protected] and I'll get you sorted out!

*What about updates for encoded libraries? Will we have to pay for those too?*

Nope! If a product was released as an encoded library from its original launch, and does not require a new serial code for Native Access, we offer updates for these products at no charge. Some of these updates are quite significant, with all-new (or re-treated) sample content, new instruments (like the Monster Low Brass patches that were added to CineBrass PRO after its release), script updates, bug fixes, and more. There may be a reinstallation required in order to update a library (whether re-encoded or not) so we always recommend making a backup of your current version before installing the latest version.

I hope this helps shed some light on the situation with the new Piano In Blue upgrade! I'm here to answer questions as best I can, let me know how I can help.


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## Marsen (Oct 11, 2021)

For me, this sounds really fair. Thanks for this infos Steve.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 11, 2021)

Happy to help! Hope you are enjoying the new Piano In Blue


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 11, 2021)

jadedsean said:


> What i don't understand is, why they did not do the de-noising process right in the first place which would mean there is no need for this update.


This is a great point, glad to have the opportunity to discuss! Noise reduction tools like RX have undergone some really great improvements since not only the original release but also since the last Piano In Blue update in 2014. We wanted to leverage these updated tools, as well as the remarkable talent on our new production team, to give Piano In Blue the sonic treatment it deserves to be a great value for music makers in 2021.

A couple of folks have been asking if we played Six Degrees of Noise Reduction by re-de-noising the last samples from the 2014 update -- we went back to the source material, and did a whole fresh approach. NR is a delicate craft, since as @ScarletJerry indicated, so much of the inherent character of the instrument is on the line when you start messing with the spectral information.

We wanted to strike a good balance of comfortable playability and the warm, beautiful tone of this piano without a harsh buildup from the noise floor of the recording. I'd love to hear from anyone who has upgraded about how you think we did!


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## CGR (Oct 11, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> . . . We wanted to strike a good balance of comfortable playability and the warm, beautiful tone of this piano without a harsh buildup from the noise floor of the recording. I'd love to hear from anyone who has upgraded about how you think we did!


Would be interested to compare the upgrade, but still haven't received the emailed coupon.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 11, 2021)

CGR said:


> Would be interested to compare the upgrade, but still haven't received the emailed coupon.


Sorry to hear that! Go ahead and open a ticket at [email protected] and I'll send you one!


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## CGR (Oct 11, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Sorry to hear that! Go ahead and open a ticket at [email protected] and I'll send you one!


Received - many thanks.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 11, 2021)

CGR said:


> Received - many thanks.


Great, looking forward to hearing your thoughts!!


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## ScarletJerry (Oct 11, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> This is a great point, glad to have the opportunity to discuss! Noise reduction tools like RX have undergone some really great improvements since not only the original release but also since the last Piano In Blue update in 2014. We wanted to leverage these updated tools, as well as the remarkable talent on our new production team, to give Piano In Blue the sonic treatment it deserves to be a great value for music makers in 2021.
> 
> A couple of folks have been asking if we played Six Degrees of Noise Reduction by re-de-noising the last samples from the 2014 update -- we went back to the source material, and did a whole fresh approach. NR is a delicate craft, since as @ScarletJerry indicated, so much of the inherent character of the instrument is on the line when you start messing with the spectral information.
> 
> We wanted to strike a good balance of comfortable playability and the warm, beautiful tone of this piano without a harsh buildup from the noise floor of the recording. I'd love to hear from anyone who has upgraded about how you think we did!


Thanks for the explanation. This information is very helpful.

Scarlet Jerry


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 11, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> In the PIB case I was under the impression it is more of a money grab, my “spidey sense” is still tinglin’, after the recent “we’re significantly raising prices right before the 19th 50% off sale” and a re-denoising of the same PIB samples does sound just a TAD silly to me.


Hey doctoremmet! This is really great feedback, and I know there has been some concern and confusion about some of our recent changes. This is why Mike and I are excited to engage with this forum more directly. Mike has answered the question regarding the recent price increase here, far more eloquently than I could  https://vi-control.net/community/threads/cinesamples-on-vi-control.115579/post-4933887

It's really important for us to know when some of these moves we make come across as money grabs, and your candor about your impressions is appreciated. I know it's been almost a year of cryptic "big things coming soon" messages already, and that's still the best I can do for the moment -- but we think it will become clear soon how much has been going on around here.

If you (or anyone else on here!) haven't received your upgrade coupon yet, please open a ticket at [email protected] and I will get you squared away ASAP!

Looking forward to being a more active member of this community


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## CGR (Oct 11, 2021)

A quick report on the v.3 Kontakt Player update:

A/B' ing with v2.3 using the exact settings, I can hear more clarity and a little more "3D" depth and definition in the updated version. It's subtle, but a definite improvement. It also seems to be more consistent to play - a bit more predictable and tighter between notes perhaps.

Overall, it's like the piano tech has been in and touched up the voicing and regulation of the piano, without messing with the overall tone, character & dynamics. I'm happy to have gone ahead with the update. Thanks to the team @Cinesamples MP @Cinesamples-SG for returning to polish this gem of a sampled piano.


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## CGR (Oct 11, 2021)

A little "night music" with Piano in Blue (settings attached, with the built in Piano Hall reverb):
View attachment Piano in Blue v3 - Moon River Ending.mp3


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 11, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> They state “Due to the digital nature of their products, they do not have a way to offer refunds…”


Hey Thundercat! Happy to share more information about our refund policy. I undertsand that a no-refund policy raises the stakes for a purchasing decision, especially since we also don't have a demo/trial period. Here's the reasoning behind the policy:

Once a serial code for a library is released by our system, we can't directly deactivate it from our end. This is why the EULA for our products takes effect at the point of purchase, rather than the point of downloading the library or registering the serial code. The license agreement is for a non-exclusive, non-transferrable authorization to use the samples in your compositions.

The samples themselves can be installed/downloaded at the user's convenience, copied to external/backup drives, and other ways of digitally replicating the content. Once the access to the content is delivered to the customer (whether the serial code for Native Access or Continuata download code), we can't remotely uninstall it from someone's sytem.

How the samples are used is up to the composer -- we can't guarantee that our libraries will be suitable for all compositions at all times. For all these reasons, we try to make a lot of information available about the strengths and intended functionalities of our libraries before the point of purchase. If you're ever on the fence about a library you're considering, please feel free to open a ticket and I will be happy to help you figure out if a purchase is right for you or not.

We do try to make our products do what they do as best as they can, and this involves making updates as the tools we have for development improve. This upgrade for Piano In Blue is the tip of the iceberg.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 11, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Hey doctoremmet! This is really great feedback, and I know there has been some concern and confusion about some of our recent changes. This is why Mike and I are excited to engage with this forum more directly. Mike has answered the question regarding the recent price increase here, far more eloquently than I could  https://vi-control.net/community/threads/cinesamples-on-vi-control.115579/post-4933887
> 
> It's really important for us to know when some of these moves we make come across as money grabs, and your candor about your impressions is appreciated. I know it's been almost a year of cryptic "big things coming soon" messages already, and that's still the best I can do for the moment -- but we think it will become clear soon how much has been going on around here.
> 
> ...


Well, let me just reply by saying I am happy you decided to return here. My comment may seem harsh, but if you’d do a search you’d find many a post by me about PiB with nothing but love and admiration for it. There is a Matt Johnson video I bet you know (you MUST have seen that right?) that I have posted frequently. I was unhappy about your perceived “negligence” of this community and it is good to have you back. A lot of us have been wondering out loud about the change in ownership of Cinesamples, the price increase, the “abandoned” announcement of a new library, etc. And to be frank, those threads tend to become very “echo chamber-y” and speculative, which is usually not very useful. My above post(s) have contributed to that, so in that sense I’ll be the first to admit that it is not my best work.

So let me conclude by reiterating how pleased I am to see you guys “return” here. I will send that email and request a link and update my revered PiB sample. I will gladly pay a $20 fee after Craig’s reassuring posts. I would also love for you guys to send an NFR to @Simeon and have him do a renewed playthrough. Again, thanks for being good sports. I respect you for it. Cheers - Temme.


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## Buz (Oct 12, 2021)

I wasn't using 2.3 because of an issue where it couldn't play legato in a way that 2.2 and 2.1 handled fine (2.3 chopped the notes way too hard). @Cinesamples-SG could you elaborate on the scripting updates? For a paid update with no refund I kinda need to know if I can use it.


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## Simeon (Oct 12, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I would also love for you guys to send an NFR to @Simeon and have him do a renewed playthrough. Again, thanks for being good sports. I respect you for it. Cheers - Temme.


Temme,
I purchased the upgrade last night after a very quick support turnaround. I am looking forward to checking out the update as well as testing A little side by side with the older non Kontakt Player library So stay tuned 📺


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 12, 2021)

Buz said:


> I wasn't using 2.3 because of an issue where it couldn't play legato in a way that 2.2 and 2.1 handled fine (2.3 chopped the notes way too hard). @Cinesamples-SG could you elaborate on the scripting updates?


Absolutely, happy to clarify! This particular issue was addressed in both the scripting and the re-timing of samples during the sample treatment. Piano In Blue was one of the first libraries we made with timed release samples -- there is a script that analyzes how long a key is held down and modifies the playback of the release samples to adapt. This helps simulate the physical string resonating for longer, and prevents overlap/buildup of release samples over the next note played (which tends to cause the disruption in the legato effect you are describing).

This script was updated and tightened up for the new update to allow for more comfortable playability. I'm not a scripter, so I can't tell you specifics on how they did it, but I can speak to the intention and results. You also may find an improvement for this effect in the way some of the samples were re-timed. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any further questions!


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 12, 2021)

CGR said:


> A little "night music" with Piano in Blue (settings attached, with the built in Piano Hall reverb):


This is truly beautiful, thanks so much for sharing this piece and including your settings! It's been really great to see people happy about this new version, and has us even more excited to crank out more updates for some of our classic products over the next few weeks.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 12, 2021)

Looks like coupon codes are starting to get out to more folks, check your email for your upgrade! If you don't see it, give me a shout at [email protected] and I'll get you squared away


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 12, 2021)

in case this hadn't been mentioned.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 12, 2021)

Hey @Zoot_Rollo! Glad to see you got the email. I made a post explaining the details behind this upgrade (and the $20 upgrade fee) here: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/piano-in-blue-discussion.67976/post-4933759

The TL;DR is that libraries that were originally not encoded for Kontakt Player are expensive to upgrade with this encoding, so we do charge a fee in these cases. Updates (even major updates, like the ones we have coming for CineStrings CORE and more) are free for products that were originally released with Native Instruments encoding.

I will take this opportunity to share that we recognize with the many upgrades we have in the pipeline, there are some customers who may find themselves staring at a hefty total cost to upgrade, if they have a lot of these products in their collection. If anyone here finds yourself in this situation as we get more of these re-encodings out the door, drop us a line through the Support system and I'll make sure we take care of you. Customers of libraries like Piano In Blue and the other ones getting updated soon helped us grow our business in the beginning, and we're putting a lot into these upgrades for your products to make sure they still have a place in your template.


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## muziksculp (Oct 12, 2021)

Hi @Cinesamples-SG ,

I got the 'Piano in Blue' upgrade email. So, does this upgrade offer any improvements/fixes, or new features compared to the current version ?

Thanks.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 12, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Cinesamples-SG ,
> 
> I got the 'Piano in Blue' upgrade email. So, does this upgrade offer any improvements/fixes, or new features compared to the current version ?
> 
> Thanks.


Awesome! Happy to help -- check out this post for a full explanation of what's new in the upgraded version: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/piano-in-blue-discussion.67976/post-4933759

The long story short is there's a brand-new sample set for the Direct mics, as well as scripting updates for performance and playability that take advantage of the new Kontakt engine tools that have evolved since PIB was first released. Hope you like it, we're really excited to share this as the first of many!


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## ag75 (Oct 12, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> it irks me that they are charging users $ for an update that really doesn’t improve the library for me as a user.


If the old version works fine for you no need to update it. I personally LOVE piano in blue and will be jumping on this update. BUT I will be keeping the old version as well in case it looses some of its character and color.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 12, 2021)

ag75 said:


> BUT I will be keeping the old version as well


We always recommend keeping backup copies of previous, working versions before doing any update -- re-encoding or not, a lot of the updates we have planned will require a full reinstallation, so it'll be important to keep archives of your current libraries for the sake of reopening projects!


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## muziksculp (Oct 12, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Awesome! Happy to help -- check out this post for a full explanation of what's new in the upgraded version: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/piano-in-blue-discussion.67976/post-4933759
> 
> The long story short is there's a brand-new sample set for the Direct mics, as well as scripting updates for performance and playability that take advantage of the new Kontakt engine tools that have evolved since PIB was first released. Hope you like it, we're really excited to share this as the first of many!


OK. That's awesome. 

Thanks for the feedback


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## Rob (Oct 13, 2021)

got the coupon and immediately upgraded... hadn't been playing PIB for a while, feels nice. Only thing I'd like to be added, is a way of modifying the volume of release samples, maybe in an update...
Here I played a Bill Evans tune, as it seemed natural, with mostly the room mic with a bit of surround and a touch of the default reverb, almost nothing. I'm also posting the midi, in case someone likes to try their own settings



View attachment PIB-WaltzForDebbie.mp3


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 13, 2021)

I caved in and got the upgrade too


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## devonmyles (Oct 13, 2021)

Upgraded.
I love PIB but, I've always had a problem loading it up from the quick load tab. It was in fact, a slow load.
Other than keep doing the batch save thing, it was a PITA...

Using the new library tab option has made it an instant load.
So, a thumbs up from me for the £18.30 (inc VAT) upgrade price.


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 13, 2021)

devonmyles said:


> Upgraded.
> I love PIB but, I've always had a problem loading it up from the quick load tab. It was in fact, a slow load.
> Other than keep doing the batch save thing, it was a PITA...



I had the same with the previous version and also, when enabling/disabling reverb, Kontakt would freeze and not respond. All this is over after the upgrade!

Thanks CineSamples! 👏🏻👍🏻


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## jaketanner (Oct 13, 2021)

Rob said:


> got the coupon and immediately upgraded... hadn't been playing PIB for a while, feels nice. Only thing I'd like to be added, is a way of modifying the volume of release samples, maybe in an update...
> Here I played a Bill Evans tune, as it seemed natural, with mostly the room mic with a bit of surround and a touch of the default reverb, almost nothing. I'm also posting the midi, in case someone likes to try their own settings
> 
> 
> ...


Did you use a weighted keyboard for this? Seems the dynamics could have been a bit more diverse. I haven't downloaded the new version yet, and don't really want to use the old version since it's on an older drive, so can't test out the MIDI.


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 13, 2021)

Just playing with it. MUCH MUCH BETTER than before in my opinion. I was on the fence, but glad I did the upgrade.


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## markrosoft (Oct 13, 2021)

I really like the update and think $20 is totally fair. But I wanted to share a bug I'm experiencing: If you use the **tape** setting there is a huge burst of noise when you press the sustain pedal. It lasts for a couple seconds and then cuts out hard. Some pedal samples seem to be louder than others but it seems like those samples didn't get denoised. An example is attached. Is everyone else experiencing this?


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

markrosoft said:


> If you use the **tape** setting there is a huge burst of noise when you press the sustain pedal. It lasts for a couple seconds and then cuts out hard.


Thanks for reporting this, sorry for the trouble! The Tape samples were not touched as part of this update, but I will bring this up to the team and see if we can address this on the scripting side. It may be a sample issue that would require a Noise Reduction pass on the Tape samples, in which case it'll have to wait awhile -- I'll let you know what I hear back!


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

devonmyles said:


> I've always had a problem loading it up from the quick load tab. It was in fact, a slow load.
> Other than keep doing the batch save thing, it was a PITA...
> 
> Using the new library tab option has made it an instant load.


This was one of the big reasons we did this upgrade -- I always have better results loading from the Libraries sidebar, and I do use the Quick Load menu for deeper organization (particularly of my custom Multis). Batch Re-Save on non-encoded products tends to take a long time, because Kontakt has to search tens of thousands of individual files to find filenames and locations that it's looking for. I have encountered a lot of loading issues myself, and frequently hear this experience from customers via Support.

Encoding products to put all the samples into a Kontakt-friendly format streamlines everything, and installing products directly through Native Access also usually takes out the step of setting the content installation path. Now it just shows up in Kontakt after installing.


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## SupremeFist (Oct 13, 2021)

markrosoft said:


> I really like the update and think $20 is totally fair. But I wanted to share a bug I'm experiencing: If you use the **tape** setting there is a huge burst of noise when you press the sustain pedal. It lasts for a couple seconds and then cuts out hard. Some pedal samples seem to be louder than others but it seems like those samples didn't get denoised. An example is attached. Is everyone else experiencing this?


That definitely doesn't happen on the previous version.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

markrosoft said:


> I really like the update and think $20 is totally fair. But I wanted to share a bug I'm experiencing: If you use the **tape** setting there is a huge burst of noise when you press the sustain pedal. It lasts for a couple seconds and then cuts out hard. Some pedal samples seem to be louder than others but it seems like those samples didn't get denoised. An example is attached. Is everyone else experiencing this?


As it turns out, this is something that would have to be addressed with a noise reduction treatment for the Tape samples. This is not currently on our roadmap, until after the rest of the upgrades and updates for other products. It's possible (cannot guarantee or give any timeline) that we may be able to spot de-noise this sooner than I expect, but right now there are many other things we have to get out to people first. Stay tuned!


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## chillbot (Oct 13, 2021)

Out of curiosity why were some upgrades $20 and some $0? I got a coupon to upgrade for $0 but I think it was a mistake as I bought PiB in 2014.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

chillbot said:


> Out of curiosity why were some upgrades $20 and some $0? I got a coupon to upgrade for $0 but I think it was a mistake as I bought PiB in 2014.


Whoops! There is a grace period for customers who bought the library recently, as it was on sale not long ago and a lot of folks picked it up at that time, but it's not supposed to extend all the way back to 2014. Looks like there might have been some issues with the Grace Period customer list, thanks for letting me know!

Did you receive a normal upgrade coupon as well, or just the grace period one?


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## chillbot (Oct 13, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Did you receive a normal upgrade coupon as well, or just the grace period one?


Nope just the grace period code.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

chillbot said:


> Nope just the grace period code.





Google Image Result for https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/956/638/5bc.gif


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## kgdrum (Oct 13, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Google Image Result for https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/956/638/5bc.gif


I think the most shameful aspect of this is you didn’t send me the code for the free upgrade! 🤬 lol


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> I think the most shameful aspect of this is you didn’t send me the code for the free upgrade! 🤬 lol


 Pretty sure it's nothing personal, unless our email system is pulling a Maximum Overdrive


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## thereus (Oct 13, 2021)

Native Instruments has got us all by the goolies.


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## cqd (Oct 13, 2021)

I'm kinda sickened I didn't buy it during the last sale now..
I actually had it in the cart and all..


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 13, 2021)

@Cinesamples-SG
Hello. I purchased Piano in Blue through Bestservice.com on Aug 30 this year. How can I get my voucher for the upgrade? Thank you.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> @Cinesamples-SG
> Hello. I purchased Piano in Blue through Bestservice.com on Aug 30 this year. How can I get my voucher for the upgrade? Thank you.


Great! Send a PDF copy of your receipt with the Order Number and Date of Purchase to [email protected] and I'll send you your (grace period) upgrade code


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 13, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Great! Send a PDF copy of your receipt with the Order Number and Date of Purchase to [email protected] and I'll send you your (grace period) upgrade code


Thank you! I just sent an email.


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## markrosoft (Oct 13, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> As it turns out, this is something that would have to be addressed with a noise reduction treatment for the Tape samples. This is not currently on our roadmap, until after the rest of the upgrades and updates for other products. It's possible (cannot guarantee or give any timeline) that we may be able to spot de-noise this sooner than I expect, but right now there are many other things we have to get out to people first. Stay tuned!


Hm... that's hard for me to wrap my head around because the piano samples sound great. It's just the pedal noise that has INSANE noise on it. So it sounds great as long as your turn the pedal noise all the way down. This is by no means a big deal, but it does seem like it could be easily fixed and since this update was supposed to fix noise bugs, I figured this could be worked out. 

(For now, I'm just using it with the pedal noise off and Una Corda up for just it's pedal noise, which sounds quite nice).


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

@markrosoft I have some good news for you (and anyone else who is having this issue with the pedal noise in the Tape setting) -- we have a hotfix available for this issue, shoot me a Support Ticket at [email protected] and I'll send you a patch that has a flat gain applied for the pedal noise on the Tape samples. *This is not a de-noising of the Tape samples.* No reinstallation needed (provided you have already installed the latest NKS version), just unzip and add the new patch I send you to your Instruments folder and do a Batch Re-Save if you like.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

Rob said:


> got the coupon and immediately upgraded... hadn't been playing PIB for a while, feels nice.


Awesome to hear Rob! I have a sneaking suspicion that this piano has lain dormant on a lot of people's hard drives for a long time, and it's exciting to how people are responding to the new version 



Rob said:


> Only thing I'd like to be added, is a way of modifying the volume of release samples, maybe in an update...



Noted -- I'll be up front and say we most likely won't be adding any feature changes like this until Next Time. There were some updates made to improve the timed release functionality, which adjusts the release sample based on how long the key is held, and it may take a bit of getting used to compared to the previous version. Some samples have been re-timed as part of the sonic treatment, and it's possible that playing with the same technique or straight drop-ins of MIDI files from previous projects won't fit exactly right at first.

All that said, I'll make a note of that request for the future. Lots more to get off the ground before we can revisit these things again!


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## jaketanner (Oct 13, 2021)

I can't wait for the strings update. Hope the tone remains the same, and just improve the scripting. My fear is that the tone will suffer, as a few libraries that tried to go back to older samples did...the tone changed and became thinner, and this includes some big developers unfortunately.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

thereus said:


> Native Instruments has got us all by the goolies.


It does pose both advantages and drawbacks for us as developers. On the one hand, their ecosystem is reaching a lot of new music creators, especially with the new wave of people who got into the hobby in the last couple of years. On the other, it's an expensive ecosystem to work in.

We think it's worthwhile to make more of our products available on the free Kontakt Player, as the full Kontakt is not necessarily in the arsenal of a lot of new users. Based on the response to this Piano In Blue upgrade, both here on VI-Control and in what we're hearing directly from customers, it is a good move.

I'll mention as well, since I think I've forgotten to until now, we have been quietly doing some updates to products that were already encoded for Kontakt Player but not NKS, to now be NKS-compliant. We're also getting more things available on Native Access for direct installation. You can keep up with our Compatibility Chart here to see what the current status is: https://cinesamples.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407380353175


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I can't wait for the strings update. Hope the tone remains the same, and just improve the scripting. My fear is that the tone will suffer, as a few libraries that tried to go back to older samples did...the tone changed and became thinner, and this includes some big developers unfortunately.


Without letting this loudly-meowing bag I'm holding claw its way too far open, we are doing a treatment to the samples similar to how we have done for Piano In Blue, since RX is now a better tool and our people using it have more refined ways of using it. There's a lot more to the coming CineStrings CORE update than just scripting and NR -- it will require a full reinstallation and you'll need to archive your previous versions for the sake of opening old projects.

I'm sure it won't be the last time I say, noise reduction is a knife edge to walk, when part of what we're trying to preserve is specifically the way instruments sound in the room. I can share that it's being handled with careful attention and a focus on quality -- some of the A/Bs the team working on this has posted internally (vs. the original recorded material) have been remarkable.


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## Thundercat (Oct 13, 2021)

Shows my ignorance. Thanks for honesty and clarity. Makes sense.

Thx much! Love PIB ❤️💕❤️


Cinesamples-SG said:


> Hey Thundercat! Happy to share more information about our refund policy. I undertsand that a no-refund policy raises the stakes for a purchasing decision, especially since we also don't have a demo/trial period. Here's the reasoning behind the policy:
> 
> Once a serial code for a library is released by our system, we can't directly deactivate it from our end. This is why the EULA for our products takes effect at the point of purchase, rather than the point of downloading the library or registering the serial code. The license agreement is for a non-exclusive, non-transferrable authorization to use the samples in your compositions.
> 
> ...


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> Thx much! Love PIB ❤️💕❤️


Happy to help, glad to hear you're enjoying it!!


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## kgdrum (Oct 13, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> I'll mention as well, since I think I've forgotten to until now, we have been quietly doing some updates to products that were already encoded for Kontakt Player but not NKS, to now be NKS-compliant. We're also getting more things available on Native Access for direct installation. You can keep up with our Compatibility Chart here to see what the current status is: https://cinesamples.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407380353175





@Cinesamples-SG 

In case you’re not aware, for some Mac-users having downloads and installations dependent on Native Access is actually terrifying! 
NA has had this problem for quite a while with Macs and rigs with dedicated sample drives.
If a user is putting a library on a dedicated sample drive with abundant room. NA incorrectly miscalculates the required space and bases it on the availability of space on the boot drive not the specific dedicated drive designated by the user. 
I think NA wants to see about 3x or 4x the size of the library space as available space & the bases this incorrectly on the boot drives available space.
So please keep an alternate method of downloading available for users. Authorizations via NA works well & isn’t the problem it’s accessing and downloading content on Mac’s via NA.
Thanks


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> If a user is putting a library on a dedicated sample drive with abundant room. NA incorrectly miscalculates the required space and bases it on the availability of space on the boot drive not the specific dedicated drive designated by the user.
> I think NA wants to see about 3x or 4x the space of the libraries as available space & the base this on the boot drives available space.


I have been getting a few requests about this issue lately -- there are a couple solutions that have been effective for some users, that are definitely worth a try if you're having this experience: The first is reinstalling Native Access (mildly annoying, but it's worked a few times and won't delete your existing registrations); the other is a Disk Permissions Repair.

For anyone unfamiliar with the latter, you can use the Disk Utility App on macOS to help ensure smooth performance of applications that install files to your system. Open the Disk Utility, select the hard drive, and click the First Aid button to run a permissions repair. For apps like Native Access that write a lot of files to your system, especially when distributing files among various hard drives, it's easy for things to go awry. It's a good practice to regularly perform First Aid on a sample drive and your main system drive, especially before or after updates or new software installations.

We are moving to Native Access as our primary delivery method for our products, so this is good for us to know that there may be some trepidation about this -- let me know if either of the above helps in your situation. We'll see what we can do on the NI side as well, they may have some other recommendations for this.


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## kgdrum (Oct 13, 2021)

@Cinesamples-SG 
Last year I had a NA dependent install that I wanted to put on a SSD that had more than enough available space.After several attempts of 🤬 I finally cloned & replaced my boot drive just to install the library.
This was such a mind f*k 🤬that it has actually has helped me hold off on purchasing quite a few larger NA depedendent libraries. Just as beautiful,talented and amazing as the creator of this magical library! 🎶❤️🎶 I’m yeah glad I finally got this solved. But Native Instuments not fixing this all this time imo is inexcusable.
But honestly since this happened I've held off purchasing some larger libraries like the recent Komplete 12U upgrade, if it requires NA for downloading & installing I now think twice.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 13, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> But honestly since this happened I've held off purchasing some larger libraries like the recent Komplete 12U upgrade, if it requires NA for downloading & installing I now think twice.


Yea, that sounds super frustrating, I don't blame you! This is very helpful information, thanks for sharing.


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## kgdrum (Oct 13, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Yea, that sounds super frustrating, I don't blame you! This is very helpful information, thanks for sharing.


My pleasure and I hope I never have to re-install CinePerc ever again! lol 😂 
🎶❤️🎶


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## jaketanner (Oct 14, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Without letting this loudly-meowing bag I'm holding claw its way too far open, we are doing a treatment to the samples similar to how we have done for Piano In Blue, since RX is now a better tool and our people using it have more refined ways of using it. There's a lot more to the coming CineStrings CORE update than just scripting and NR -- it will require a full reinstallation and you'll need to archive your previous versions for the sake of opening old projects.
> 
> I'm sure it won't be the last time I say, noise reduction is a knife edge to walk, when part of what we're trying to preserve is specifically the way instruments sound in the room. I can share that it's being handled with careful attention and a focus on quality -- some of the A/Bs the team working on this has posted internally (vs. the original recorded material) have been remarkable.


All sounds great. But if it's not too late of a suggestion, can you supply us with the clean AND dirty samples...similar to what Audio Ollie did with NSS? I don't mind the noise so much...it was more about the legato feature. The shorts were excellent!


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 14, 2021)

I didn't read all 10 pages of this thread but are folks getting the NEW serials right away (I am an existing owner of PIB)? Purchased about 30 mins ago and no email???


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 14, 2021)

Rob Elliott said:


> I didn't read all 10 pages of this thread but are folks getting the NEW serials right away (I am an existing owner of PIB)? Purchased about 30 mins ago and no email???


Yes it was instant


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 14, 2021)

bummer. I have a ticket into them. Could be a paypal thingy. I usually get serials right away from CS.


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 14, 2021)

Rob Elliott said:


> bummer. I have a ticket into them. Could be a paypal thingy. I usually get serials right away from CS.


Ah - discover once PP was done I had to 'reorder' this time inclusive of tax.  Should see the serial soon.


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 14, 2021)

Downloading now. Curious of others settings with the de-noised update. Memory serves me that I generally set the piano at 100% close and half as much with the surround mics. I horsed around with velocities set to about Left - Right (10 oclock and about 3 oclock). Just curious what others are using (as I wait for the slow download). Looking forward to dusting off this long forgotten piano (hoping to use it on an upcoming 'indie' project).


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 14, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> All sounds great. But if it's not too late of a suggestion, can you supply us with the clean AND dirty samples...similar to what Audio Ollie did with NSS? I don't mind the noise so much...it was more about the legato feature. The shorts were excellent!


Great question, appreciate the chance to make this as clear as possible! The new update will not include both sample sets (this would double the download/installation size), and will require a full reinstallation -- *it will be necessary to make your own backups of your existing installed libraries for the sake of opening old projects before reinstalling the updates. *You will still be able to load the old patches from the Quick Load menu in Kontakt, but for all intents and purposes you should think of the updates as a completely new library, and archive the original version before applying any update.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 14, 2021)

Rob Elliott said:


> Downloading now. Curious of others settings with the de-noised update. Memory serves me that I generally set the piano at 100% close and half as much with the surround mics. I horsed around with velocities set to about Left - Right (10 oclock and about 3 oclock). Just curious what others are using (as I wait for the slow download). Looking forward to dusting off this long forgotten piano (hoping to use it on an upcoming 'indie' project).


Hey Rob, great to see you were able to get the download code! I'm getting a fair few tickets in the wake of this update, so I appreciate you all bearing with me while I try to keep up with those and the forum here 

I have had a couple people report an issue with Native Access installation where the serial code registers properly but the library doesn't show the Install/Download option, only Add Library. These users have been able to solve it by relaunching/updating Native Access, since the encoded Piano In Blue is so new in NI's database many folks haven't relaunched or updated NA since the library became available on that platform.

I'll refer back to the Disk Permissions Repair procedure I recommended in a previous comment as another troubleshooting method if Native Access gives you an error message about disk size, even though you have plenty: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/piano-in-blue-discussion.67976/post-4935689

By and large, I'm getting a ton of positive feedback about the new Piano In Blue, and it's really exciting to see -- has me even more eager to share the next handful of upgrades that are coming soon


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## juven (Oct 14, 2021)

Here's a comparison of what I made with the new PIB and the old version.
The new version does not have the sudden noise that the old version had.
However, it does not mean that the noise has disappeared completely, but it remains in a thin layer, which creates a nice atmosphere like a 20th century masterpiece.
The position of the pan seems to have improved as well.
I don't feel any side effects from the noise removal.
Transparency has been improved.
This is an absolutely fantastic update.
I sometimes de-noise audio data and program in Kontakt.
I can only imagine how much work this is.
Thanks Cinesamples!



old version


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 14, 2021)

juven said:


> Here's a comparison of what I made with the new PIB and the old version.
> The new version does not have the sudden noise that the old version had.
> However, it does not mean that the noise has disappeared completely, but it remains in a thin layer, which creates a nice atmosphere like a 20th century masterpiece.
> The position of the pan seems to have improved as well.
> ...



Dang, that feels good to read


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 14, 2021)

juven said:


> Here's a comparison of what I made with the new PIB and the old version.
> The new version does not have the sudden noise that the old version had.
> However, it does not mean that the noise has disappeared completely, but it remains in a thin layer, which creates a nice atmosphere like a 20th century masterpiece.
> The position of the pan seems to have improved as well.
> ...



Amazing playing too, so happy to hear people getting such great use out of this new Piano In Blue!!


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## devonmyles (Oct 14, 2021)

To Steve at Cinesamples...
Thanks for the hotfix you sent over earlier.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 14, 2021)

devonmyles said:


> To Steve at Cinesamples...
> Thanks for the hotfix you sent over earlier.


Happy to help! I have a few more requests for this in the ticket queue, if one of them belongs to someone seeing this, hang tight!!


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## Fleer (Oct 14, 2021)

This update to Piano In Blue is pretty amazing. 
Kudos to Cinesamples. Thanks Steve. 
@Cinesamples-SG rocks!


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## ChickenAndARoll (Oct 15, 2021)

Apparently I was in the grace period to upgrade for free but I contacted support for a personal discount code before I got that second code to make it free... should I reach out to support again or just consider it a donation to Cinesamples for their efforts 😂


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 15, 2021)

ChickenAndARoll said:


> Apparently I was in the grace period to upgrade for free but I contacted support for a personal discount code before I got that second code to make it free... should I reach out to support again or just consider it a donation to Cinesamples for their efforts 😂


Gah! Sorry for the trouble, ping me at the Support system and I'll see what we can do. (Got a few requests to deal with so it may take a moment but I'll get to you!)


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 15, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Great! Send a PDF copy of your receipt with the Order Number and Date of Purchase to [email protected] and I'll send you your (grace period) upgrade code


I sent an email with the receipt on Wednesday at [email protected] but I haven't yet got a response. Is it normal or was my email lost?


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 15, 2021)

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> I sent an email with the receipt on Wednesday at [email protected] but I haven't yet got a response. Is it normal or was my email lost?


Sorry for the delay, there have been a lot of tickets coming in with this upgrade, it's been tough to keep up with everything  I'll get to you as soon as I can!


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 15, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Sorry for the delay, there have been a lot of tickets coming in with this upgrade, it's been tough to keep up with everything  I'll get to you as soon as I can!


I just completed the upgrade. Thank you very much!


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## Pianolando (Oct 16, 2021)

How many velocity layers does PiB have? The Blue in Green demo that’s on YouTube is absolutely beautiful.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 16, 2021)

Pianolando said:


> How many velocity layers does PiB have?


Great question! 8 recorded velocity layers, performed by a human and not a robot, so realism and variety is present within each. The piano was sampled chromatically (every single key) in this fashion, so it's very detailed and also very naturally playable.



Pianolando said:


> The Blue in Green demo that’s on YouTube is absolutely beautiful.


Yea, @juven did a fantastic job with that  One of the best things about developing creative tools is seeing what people use them to achieve. It's been an exciting week since this upgrade came out, people are already doing really cool stuff with it. Super excited for the next ones!


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## rocking.xmas.man (Oct 16, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Great question! 8 recorded velocity layers, performed by a human and not a robot, so realism and variety is present within each.


No idea if it’s that, but I prefer piano in blue, Abbey roads classic upright, cinepiano and the pianos in cinebells over all the other offerings I know because they just feel right and real for me when I’m playing


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## juven (Oct 16, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Yea, @juven did a fantastic job with that  One of the best things about developing creative tools is seeing what people use them to achieve. It's been an exciting week since this upgrade came out, people are already doing really cool stuff with it. Super excited for the next ones!


I was slow to learn about PIB.
I decided to buy this after listening to the sound of @Simeon introducing PIB on Youtube before looking at the Cinesamples website.
I am grateful to him.
Great users are creating new users.


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## AndreBoulard (Oct 21, 2021)

what would be the email name for the coupon? i have the old version.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Oct 21, 2021)

AndreBoulard said:


> what would be the email name for the coupon? i have the old version.


Great question AndreBoulard! The subject line for the email is "Cinesamples Piano In Blue - Existing Owner Upgrade Coupon"

I just sent out a reminder email about this upgrade, so if anyone else here is in the same boat looking for the upgrade email, that's what to search for. If you didn't receive your coupon, get in touch with our Support system and we'll get your coupon sent over!


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## paulmatthew (Nov 5, 2021)

Anyone else had issues with Native Access and installing. I enter the serial number for version 2 and it says it's registered but never shows up Native Access. I've entered the serial 3 times and it continues to say it's registered but no v2 download


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## Cinesamples-SG (Nov 5, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> Anyone else had issues with Native Access and installing. I enter the serial number for version 2 and it says it's registered but never shows up Native Access. I've entered the serial 3 times and it continues to say it's registered but no v2 download


Sorry to hear about this issue, I'll PM you!


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## paulmatthew (Nov 5, 2021)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Sorry to hear about this issue, I'll PM you!


Thank you. I think you handled the ticket Steve. It's been resolved due in part to user error  Native access still shows version 1.0 but not a big deal.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Nov 5, 2021)

paulmatthew said:


> It's been resolved


Great, happy to help!


paulmatthew said:


> Native access still shows version 1.0 but not a big deal.


This is a pesky thing -- since Piano In Blue hasn't been available on Native Access before, it is considered 1.0.0 in that format, even though it is now a v3.0 update. For libraries that are getting encoded for the first time, there will be a few other situations like this. We'll do what we can to try and make these discrepancies clear on our website.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 6, 2021)

This one's with Piano In Blue:


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## jaketanner (Dec 6, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> This one's with Piano In Blue:



The tone is nice...does the new version still have all that noise?


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## SupremeFist (Dec 6, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> The tone is nice...does the new version still have all that noise?


This is the taped samples + a splash of the noise dial, so I don't think so.


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## jaketanner (Dec 6, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> This is the taped samples + a splash of the noise dial, so I don't think so.


Oh ok...I haven't played with the new version yet...sounds really good.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Dec 23, 2021)

Hey all, we've got a cool new video up giving a quick listen to the new Piano In Blue update! Check it out:


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## Wes Antczak (Dec 25, 2021)

Thank you for the update to this great library (at a very reasonable price!) and thank you for posting the demo. Is there a time limit to the upgrade offer? Just trying to balance my finances after doing the family Christmas shopping. Also asking because I have a number of Cinesamples items that I want to upgrade!


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## Cinesamples-SG (Dec 25, 2021)

Wes Antczak said:


> Is there a time limit to the upgrade offer?


No time limit! The coupons to upgrade Piano In Blue, Drums Of War 1+2, CineOrch (now Orchestral Chords) and more coming soon will not expire. Use them at your convenience


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## Wes Antczak (Dec 25, 2021)

Great news regarding no expiration! Thank you so much and wonderful that these are all getting updates... I have (and love) them all!


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## mybadmemory (Jan 3, 2022)

Got Piano in Blue yesterday and absolutely loving it so far. What a beautiful instrument, room, and recording!

However it does seem to include one troublesome note right in the middle of the keyboard: F5 (Roland) or F4 (Yamaha) using velocity 101-110, sounds like it's clipping or distorting. Since it's right in the middle of the keyboard I seem to hit it pretty often. The noise is present on both the direct and tape samples, and both with and without sustain pedal pressed down, which makes me slightly suspicious.

Could anyone else confirm?


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## muddyblue (Jan 3, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> Got Piano in Blue yesterday and absolutely loving it so far. What a beautiful instrument, room, and recording!
> 
> However it does seem to include one troublesome note right in the middle of the keyboard: F5 (Roland) or F4 (Yamaha) using velocity 114-118, sounds like it's clipping or distorting. Since it's right in the middle of the keyboard I seem to hit it pretty often. The noise is present on both the direct and tape samples, and both with and without sustain pedal pressed down, which makes me slightly suspicious.
> 
> Could anyone else confirm?


Hi, this is what it sounds by me in F with 117 velocity. Out of the box, no presets.


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## CGR (Jan 3, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> Got Piano in Blue yesterday and absolutely loving it so far. What a beautiful instrument, room, and recording!
> 
> However it does seem to include one troublesome note right in the middle of the keyboard: F5 (Roland) or F4 (Yamaha) using velocity 114-118, sounds like it's clipping or distorting. Since it's right in the middle of the keyboard I seem to hit it pretty often. The noise is present on both the direct and tape samples, and both with and without sustain pedal pressed down, which makes me slightly suspicious.
> 
> Could anyone else confirm?


Direct or Tape sample set? The Tape samples have some (intentional) saturation or "crunch" going on with some of the higher velocities. Also, it is an old piano (1950's era) with a bit of "movement" in the tuning of the unisons, so it may be one of it's quirks.


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## mybadmemory (Jan 3, 2022)

muddyblue said:


> Hi, this is what it sounds by me in F with 117 velocity. Out of the box, no presets.


Oh, I just realised I had the internal Velocity Curve Height tweaked, which offset these values. At default settings it's the sample between 101 and 110! Could you hear it on that one?


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## mybadmemory (Jan 3, 2022)

CGR said:


> Direct or Tape sample set? The Tape samples have some (intentional) saturation or "crunch" going on with some of the higher velocities. Also, it is an old piano (1950's era) with a bit of "movement" in the tuning of the unisons, so it may be one of it's quirks.


It's on both sample sets, and sticks out quite noticeably from the other notes and velocities of the same note.


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## muddyblue (Jan 3, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> Oh, I just realised I had the internal Velocity Curve Height tweaked, which offset these values. At default settings it's the sample between 101 and 110! Could you hear it on that one?


Mh here again with vel 105 at 117bpm out of the blue


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## mybadmemory (Jan 3, 2022)

muddyblue said:


> Mh here again with vel 105 at 117bpm out of the blue


There it is! On the second note, a dist/clip in the right channel.

After further investigation is seems to only be on the Room Mic, and not in the Close and Surround Mics so I guess it could be avoided that way. But the room mic sounds really nice otherwise, so would be great if it could be fixed, either by fixing the sample, or by just removing it and subsituting it with the ones below or above.

Including a file playing three reps of the velocities below, right on, and above the problem area, where it's clearly audible in the middle three reps.


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## muddyblue (Jan 3, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> There it is! On the second note, a dist/clip in the right channel.
> 
> After further investigation is seems to only be on the Room Mic, and not in the Close and Surround Mics so I guess it could be avoided that way. But the room mic sounds really nice otherwise, so would be great if it could be fixed, either by fixing the sample, or by just removing it and subsituting it with the ones below or above.
> 
> Including a file playing three reps of the velocities below, right on, and above the problem area, where it's clearly audible in the middle three reps.


To me it sounds like it has to be the same and its a part of it, more like the instrument itself, but I have bad ears


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## mybadmemory (Jan 3, 2022)

muddyblue said:


> To me it sounds like it has to be the same and its a part of it, more like the instrument itself, but I have bad ears


I think the fact that it’s only in one of the mics suggests that it’s not the instrument itself, but rather an issue with the recording. Had it been in all three mics I could have accepted it as part of the instrument. 

I’m not usually one to be annoyed by noises. I usually like them and think they add to the realism and atmosphere as long as it’s a natural sound coming from the instrument or player, and is varied between round robins.

I think this one feels slightly disturbing since it sounds articificial and appears on every repetition of that note if played with the same velocity.


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## Cinesamples-SG (Jan 6, 2022)

mybadmemory said:


> I think the fact that it’s only in one of the mics suggests that it’s not the instrument itself, but rather an issue with the recording. Had it been in all three mics I could have accepted it as part of the instrument.
> 
> I’m not usually one to be annoyed by noises. I usually like them and think they add to the realism and atmosphere as long as it’s a natural sound coming from the instrument or player, and is varied between round robins.
> 
> I think this one feels slightly disturbing since it sounds articificial and appears on every repetition of that note if played with the same velocity.


Thanks for all the details on this issue!! We'll take a look and see what we can do.


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## mybadmemory (Jan 6, 2022)

Cinesamples-SG said:


> Thanks for all the details on this issue!! We'll take a look and see what we can do.


Would be fantastic! This is quickly becoming my favorite piano sample, but repeatedly hitting that small crackle kind of breaks the immersion of this lovely instrument!


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## Fleer (Sep 20, 2022)

Any news?


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## SupremeFist (Sep 20, 2022)

I used PiB for this one.


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