# Modular Synth - daw and scoring hardware integration?



## soundslikejoe (Feb 10, 2016)

Anyone here using a Eurorack style hardware synth with their DAW in a scoring or sound design fashion? Curious to hear about experiences regarding this blended workflow.


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## bryla (Feb 10, 2016)

I do!

I love it – both using the hardware compared to soft synths and playing with unusual sounds.
I've tried using the DAW as a midi output sequencer for the modular but find it easier and faster to have a dedicated controller for the synth and only connect to the computer via jack.


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## soundslikejoe (Feb 11, 2016)

Do you clock the synth from the DAW or strictly use it as an external instrument and/or audio processor? Curious to hear more about working this way.


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## synthpunk (Feb 11, 2016)

You probably want to look into Expert Sleepers if you have not already.Tools to help integrate ITB with the outside cv world.
http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/

Eurorack is a rabbit hole but can be used as a original source on your palette for creative sound design.


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 12, 2016)

I don't have a modular setup but instead several modern hardware synths that save patches and have CCs on nearly every parameter. That way I can send envelopes/lfos via cableguys' midishaper...making them 'midi-modular'...i print that CC info to a track in Cubase.


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## soundslikejoe (Feb 12, 2016)

givemenoughrope said:


> I don't have a modular setup but instead several modern hardware synths that save patches and have CCs on nearly every parameter. That way I can send envelopes/lfos via cableguys' midishaper...making them 'midi-modular'...i print that CC info to a track in Cubase.


Which synths are you using?


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 12, 2016)

BS2 for sub bass, leads, arps
Minitaur for bass mostly
Mopho keyboard and Tetra for mostly pads
Mutable Instruments Ambika for arps and chords
some old hammond module I bought at the old Future Music on Sunset for $100. Dropped it down steps once. Sounds cool!

Not midi but...Korg Minikorg run through a Chase Bliss Gravitas tremolo pedal with midi control. Setting that up next week...


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## Ethos (Feb 12, 2016)

For the past few years I've switched gears a bit and started using a Virus TI in my according template. It's mostly the best of both worlds. Lots of knobs, awesome fat analogue sound with fabulous filters, AND fully recallable parameters. Not exactly modular, but I'm getting similar results.


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## chimuelo (Feb 13, 2016)

Expert Sleepers is a niche company with great hardware and software for integration of hardware and DAWs.

I use their Silentway to convert 24 bit audio into 32bit MIDI.
0-100,000 is incredible compared to 0-127.


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 13, 2016)

I'm doing ok w 0-127 though. And some of these synths have doubled CCs for extra steps. I was thinking of building a small modular rig and using the dc coupled out of my motu interface along with the expert sleepers software. Maybe I'll try it with the Minitaur first since it takes CV.


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## soundslikejoe (Feb 14, 2016)

I planned to use the ES3 and ES6 (expert sleeper) and the Silent Way software for both clocking to DAW... and for recording CV information. I've read that it's possible to clock modular without any specialized module though... From Make Noise's FAQ section...

_If you require only timing/ synchronization information, it is possible to do this without any additional hardware. Use a spare track/ channel on your drum machine, sequencer or DAW. Program a sharp, short, loud sound on this track. Set the volume for this channel as high as possible. Patch this signal to any clock input... 
_​While that should work in theory... has anyone used this method? 

That said... I'm finding there are two camps of people with modular experience in the scoring environment; those who think it's worth it and those who think the difficulty of revisions make it a "no" 

Personally, I've planned to use the modular as a pre-production development tool and texture generator. At that point, it seems that using the modular wouldn't be much more difficult than tracking acoustic instruments into the score. Then again.... there are people with first-hand experience who really feel this isn't a great idea for media scoring projects. Hmm.


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## synthpunk (Feb 14, 2016)

Press Shift & Store on the Virus Ti to make it sound more modular 



Ethos said:


> For the past few years I've switched gears a bit and started using a Virus TI in my according template. It's mostly the best of both worlds. Lots of knobs, awesome fat analogue sound with fabulous filters, AND fully recallable parameters. Not exactly modular, but I'm getting similar results.


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## wst3 (Feb 15, 2016)

soundslikejoe said:


> I've read that it's possible to clock modular without any specialized module though... From Make Noise's FAQ section...
> 
> _If you require only timing/ synchronization information, it is possible to do this without any additional hardware. Use a spare track/ channel on your drum machine, sequencer or DAW. Program a sharp, short, loud sound on this track. Set the volume for this channel as high as possible. Patch this signal to any clock input...
> _​While that should work in theory... has anyone used this method?



Yes, even back in the bad old days - minus the whole sequencer audio track of course<G>! Most clock inputs are simply looking for a sudden change in level.

As far as Expert Sleeper Silent Way - the first time I tried it I was a little bit underwhelmed. That was a long time ago, so I think I need to take it for another spin!

And for including synthesizers (modular or not, hardware or not) in a 'modern' studio, I really think that comes down to "why not?"


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## chimuelo (Feb 15, 2016)

givemenoughrope said:


> I'm doing ok w 0-127 though. And some of these synths have doubled CCs for extra steps. I was thinking of building a small modular rig and using the dc coupled out of my motu interface along with the expert sleepers software. Maybe I'll try it with the Minitaur first since it takes CV.



I use SWS 2.2 as a plug in to export audio into my XITE-1.
The DSP Based application uses modules that accept audio as a Modulation source.
It's basically 64 massive Modular synths which I plan on combining with my Eurorack Modular once I get my DC Coupled Ferrofish A32.
The A32 even has the new SHARC ADSP 413b9 chip.
My XITE-1 has 18 SHARC ADSP 21369 chips.
As a comparison UADs top rack has 4 SHARCs.
Should be fun.
If I fail as I often do I still have high spec'd Ferrofish....


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## Ethos (Feb 15, 2016)

aesthete said:


> Press Shift & Store on the Virus Ti to make it sound more modular


Haha yeah! That's my favorite button!


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## Rctec (Feb 16, 2016)

We are just finishing a nearly all modular score. Not some indie, but a big, commercial film. It's been such a great, but time consuming experience. It's very different than thinking about the normal palette of strings, woods, brass, perc. It's a far more 'painterly' and expressionistic experience. And the best part is sort of the worst: you are quite literally building the instrument for each note. And you can't safe the pre-sets, so you're always starting from scratch. We are about three months past the original schedule, but we have a super supportive director and music department at the film-studio.
People used to do synth scores to save money. Trust me, that time is gone (actually, "Bladerunner" and "Midnight Express" where already taking electronic scores seriously). A good electronic score is much more expensive than a few days on a scoring stage with a standard orchestral line-up...
There are truly an amazing amount of modules out there and the quality is getting really good. Not just sonically, but solid builds. This is absolutely the time for adventureous synthesis. There have never been as many manufacturers building original and inspiring modules. Of course, the same goes for plug-ins and software synth, but there is something glorious about the home-made quality of modular synthesis for me. And it's important to remember that some decent analog outboard is part of the deal. You need really good a to d's good pre-amps, different compressors and eq's to really take advantage of your modules - so include that in your budgets and setup...


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 16, 2016)

^Whoever the poor person is who has to recall all these patches all day and night is...I want his job!


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 16, 2016)

Anyone using digital modules? I've tried some by Mutable Instruments that are really different than anything out there. The Vahalla verb guy just demoed his new module as well which sounds incredible.


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## Astronaut FX (Feb 16, 2016)

Rctec said:


> We are just finishing a nearly all modular score. Not some indie, but a big, commercial film. It's been such a great, but time consuming experience. It's very different than thinking about the normal palette of strings, woods, brass, perc. It's a far more 'painterly' and expressionistic experience. And the best part is sort of the worst: you are quite literally building the instrument for each note. And you can't safe the pre-sets, so you're always starting from scratch. We are about three months past the original schedule, but we have a super supportive director and music department at the film-studio.
> People used to do synth scores to save money. Trust me, that time is gone (actually, "Bladerunner" and "Midnight Express" where already taking electronic scores seriously). A good electronic score is much more expensive than a few days on a scoring stage with a standard orchestral line-up...
> There are truly an amazing amount of modules out there and the quality is getting really good. Not just sonically, but solid builds. This is absolutely the time for adventureous synthesis. There have never been as many manufacturers building original and inspiring modules. Of course, the same goes for plug-ins and software synth, but there is something glorious about the home-made quality of modular synthesis for me. And it's important to remember that some decent analog outboard is part of the deal. You need really good a to d's good pre-amps, different compressors and eq's to really take advantage of your modules - so include that in your budgets and setup...



Thank you for sharing, you've definitely peaked my interest as to which film this ends up being. Any chance you'd be willing to elaborate as to some of what you're using for the score? What format? Eurorack, something else? Any particular modules that you've found particularly inspiring?


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## chimuelo (Feb 16, 2016)

Wow, can't wait to hear the ZMan using discrete audio again.


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## synthpunk (Feb 16, 2016)

I have Mutable in my rack. They are fun & wonderful.



givemenoughrope said:


> Anyone using digital modules? I've tried some by Mutable Instruments that are really different than anything out there. The Vahalla verb guy just demoed his new module as well which sounds incredible.


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 16, 2016)

I tried their Rings module at Perfect Circuit in Burbank. Couldn't take my hands off of it.


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## synthpunk (Feb 17, 2016)

Here is Tom .H (Junkie XL) talking about using modular synths on the new Deadpool Movie.


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 17, 2016)

Saw this flick last night and enjoyed it way more than I thought I would. I wish that the score was louder bc it's a cool one. Eager to hear whatever score rctec is talking about. I really enjoy the sound of raw synth sounds in a loud theatre...almost as much as orch sometimes. 

How popular are effects like reverb, delay, fuzz, etc in modular systems these days? I'm thinking of starting there maybe...


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## synthpunk (Feb 17, 2016)

Halls of Vahalla for Tip Top ZDSP is a nice place to start there.



I like the Eventide H9 allot, and Strymon is great.
Lots of this in Reaktor 6 as well if your so obliged.

Check out the Moog Mother-32 as good starting point.



And I love the Kilpatrick Phenol as well.





givemenoughrope said:


> Saw this flick last night and enjoyed it way more than I thought I would. I wish that the score was louder bc it's a cool one. Eager to hear whatever score rctec is talking about. I really enjoy the sound of raw synth sounds in a loud theatre...almost as much as orch sometimes.
> 
> How popular are effects like reverb, delay, fuzz, etc in modular systems these days? I'm thinking of starting there maybe...


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## givemenoughrope (Feb 17, 2016)

Killer! Yes, I have both the H9 and the Stymon Timeline. Making guitar loops live with that is pretty fun. 

I saw the first Valhalla video. This one is making me think that there's no way I could live without this module.


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## SterlingArcher (Feb 18, 2016)

Rctec said:


> We are just finishing a nearly all modular score. Not some indie, but a big, commercial film. It's been such a great, but time consuming experience. It's very different than thinking about the normal palette of strings, woods, brass, perc. It's a far more 'painterly' and expressionistic experience. And the best part is sort of the worst: you are quite literally building the instrument for each note. And you can't safe the pre-sets, so you're always starting from scratch. We are about three months past the original schedule, but we have a super supportive director and music department at the film-studio.
> People used to do synth scores to save money. Trust me, that time is gone (actually, "Bladerunner" and "Midnight Express" where already taking electronic scores seriously). A good electronic score is much more expensive than a few days on a scoring stage with a standard orchestral line-up...
> There are truly an amazing amount of modules out there and the quality is getting really good. Not just sonically, but solid builds. This is absolutely the time for adventureous synthesis. There have never been as many manufacturers building original and inspiring modules. Of course, the same goes for plug-ins and software synth, but there is something glorious about the home-made quality of modular synthesis for me. And it's important to remember that some decent analog outboard is part of the deal. You need really good a to d's good pre-amps, different compressors and eq's to really take advantage of your modules - so include that in your budgets and setup...



One of the recent scores I've liked has been Chappie which you did with Steve Mazzaro and Andrew Kawczynski. If you don't mind me asking, what was the balance of synth to organic elements in the score.


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## synthpunk (Feb 25, 2016)

Mutable Instruments Clouds & Braids Eurorack Modules


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## Ethos (Feb 25, 2016)

I *just* bought clouds. Should be here next week!


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