# What’s the latest piano library worth getting?



## Mason (Jan 22, 2020)

I haven’t had the time to catch up on new releases for a long time and I wonder if there have been any new piano libraries the last year that’s really great?


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## pawelmorytko (Jan 22, 2020)

I only got Noire recently but I honestly haven't touched another piano since...


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## Mark Schmieder (Jan 22, 2020)

VSL Synchron Pianos now has four different pianos, and a gazillion mics. I've ended up consolidating my workflow around it as a result, to save time and confusion when going between so many simultaneous projects. It can take more up-front work, but once settled, you have good starting point templates.

For better immediate out-of-box experiences, there's the aforementioned NI Noire (I just sold mine, simply because I also have the Yamaha CFX covered in VSL Synchron Pianos), and for Steinway there's Soniccouturer's Hammersmith (likewise; it's the same model that is also now sampled in VSL, but is effortless compared to the Synchron suite).

Surprisingly, there's also a humongous Yamaha piano added to SampleTank 4, so if you aren't one of those who dislikes that interface, it might be worth the upgrade price for that alone. It's the one reason I almost kept mine. You might have to check whether it's only in the MAX edition though, as I went MAX at the time.

The Baldwin piano is said to be getting a sibling at some point, based on a different model (I forget whether it's a bigger or smaller grand than the one already sampled). This one is for UVI Workstation.

OTS is apparently planning on updating Rosewood Grand as well. I quite liked it while I owned it, but it too fell by the wayside in favour of a unified VSL Synchron strategy. I found the Rosewood to cut through the mix almost the best of any of them; especially for more percussive playing. It also handled pedaling well.

I don't always remember when things were released, so am not sure off-hand what was new to 2019 vs. 2018 and therefore cut my list short, focusing instead on lesser-known stuff like the new ST4 piano from IKM, and two not-so-widely-known plans for additional libraries or updates from Whole Sounds (Baldwin) and Orange Tree Samples (Rosewood Grand).


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## pfylim (Jan 22, 2020)

The best is still the Steinway 1955 by Embertone. It's super buttery. I do not like the brighter pianos.

I have tried them all. A second would be the Hammersmith by Soniccouture.

The devil is in the details.


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## IvanHuorMusic (Jan 22, 2020)

+1 for Noire


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## CT (Jan 22, 2020)

Having just gotten Noire (thanks again, Mark), I definitely say Noire. Another vote for the Hammersmith as well, though that isn't a "latest."


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## Fleer (Jan 22, 2020)

pfylim said:


> The best is still the Steinway 1955 by Embertone. It's super buttery. I do not like the brighter pianos.
> 
> I have tried them all. A second would be the Hammersmith by Soniccouture.
> 
> The devil is in the details.


Yup. That Embertone grand is pretty good. Meanwhile, waiting for Pianoteq to unveil a new one, hopefully this time a Fazioli.


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## sostenuto (Jan 22, 2020)

Takes more than ONE to cover needs, but AV - Supergrand just added and very pleased !! 


SUPERGRAND Piano Plugin



Have OTS - EV Rosewood grand and also waiting for Update !


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## 2chris (Jan 22, 2020)

I think the best newer libraries are these:

NI Noire. It’s very versatile, super interesting, and great on resources. It’s excellent, and the particular Yamaha CFX they picked sounds awesome. I dare say this has become my favorite piano library.
Wavesfactory Mercury. It’s a well sampled fazioli, it has a nice light sound, and pretty reasonable versatility and resource use.
Embertone Walker. I don’t have this, but it’s probably the most detailed piano sampling you can get. It’s the most versatile in mic positions, but not as much on creative presets. It’s huge, and the drawback for me is 100gb+ size is too much.
Soniccouture Hammersmith. It strikes a great balance between deep sampling, a unique style to sampling in trying to get harmonic resonance to a realistic degree, and it’s a nice sounding Steinway with velocity curves that can sound tight and harsh or soft and relaxing.
Garritan CFX. I don’t have this but it’s a CFX recorded at Abbey Road. What’s not to like about that?


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## MichaelBarry (Jan 22, 2020)

I just had to mockup Debussy's Clair de Lune for a project - did it with CinePiano
I think its very close to the real thing


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## CGR (Jan 22, 2020)

MichaelBarry said:


> I just had to mockup Debussy's Clair de Lune for a project - did it with CinePiano
> I think its very close to the real thing



Lovely work Michael - the CinePiano sounds wonderful. Ah, that Sony Scoring Stage ambience . . .


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## Alfeus Aditya (Jan 22, 2020)

NI Grandeur is still the piano that I almost always use









Alfeus Piano


Here is my piano interpretation for many songs around the world ❤




www.youtube.com


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## Mike Fox (Jan 22, 2020)

A vote here for Cinepiano!


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## Alfeus Aditya (Jan 22, 2020)

Mason said:


> I haven’t had the time to catch up on new releases for a long time and I wonder if there have been any new piano libraries the last year that’s really great?



I think this all depends on what type of music you play / produce. because one piano will never be enough to cover everything


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## Lumina Studio (Jan 22, 2020)

I use and really like Spectrasonics Keyscape.


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## 2chris (Jan 22, 2020)

Mark Schmieder said:


> VSL Synchron Pianos now has four different pianos, and a gazillion mics. I've ended up consolidating my workflow around it as a result, to save time and confusion when going between so many simultaneous projects. It can take more up-front work, but once settled, you have good starting point templates.
> 
> For better immediate out-of-box experiences, there's the aforementioned NI Noire (I just sold mine, simply because I also have the Yamaha CFX covered in VSL Synchron Pianos), and for Steinway there's Soniccouturer's Hammersmith (likewise; it's the same model that is also now sampled in VSL, but is effortless compared to the Synchron suite).
> 
> ...


It’s really interesting to hear your thoughts on this, and I agree with much of what you say. I’ve never considered buying VSL piano products though. I’ve only really come close to buying Big Bang Andromeda. The synchron player looks really nice, and the dimension strings sound impressive. I’m pretty tied to Kontakt. If I ever start toward their products I will keep this in mind. 

I resisted naming older stuff too. I enjoy keyscape and Piano in Blue. I haven’t found a modeled piano I like yet, so I won’t have one of those to name, but maybe one day?


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## Michael Antrum (Jan 22, 2020)

I used to use Ivory II American Concert D as my default piano - pushed through Spaces II reverb - and it's still a great choice.

But then I got a couple of VSL Synchron Pianos. The D274 is slightly bright with default settings, but a bit of tweaking and it is simply glorious. The Bosie Upright is excellent and I simply love the Synchron Piano player software.


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## Fleer (Jan 22, 2020)

Forgot about that Wavesfactory Mercury Fazioli. Man, that’s such a sweet grand. And those plate reverbs are to die for (even on their own). Lest we forget Bechstein’s Digital Grand (and tweak fest). Meanwhile, let’s hope OrangeTreeSamples updates their wonderful Rosewood grand.


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## alchemist (Jan 22, 2020)

I find for most uses I reach for either *Production Grand* or *Concert Grand* by Production Voices. They cover nearly everything for me.

For the softer or more ambient kind of sounds I can't praise the *Frozen Piano* library enough. For orchestral context I really like the *Light & Sound Concert Grand*, but its also fantastic for many styles, and sometimes just because the sound is so gorgeous I will load up *Mercury *by Wavesfactory for projects, also very versatile, oh and sometimes *CinePiano*, all worth checking out lol

Pretty cool to also have a look at is Christian Henson's Piano Book https://www.pianobook.co.uk


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## Mike Fox (Jan 22, 2020)

I also really dig the Imperfect Samples stuff. My favorite is the Fazioli.


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## Buz (Jan 22, 2020)

It depends what you're doing. If you want a VI that just feels like an acoustic piano out of the box, the new release market is..... VSL. 

But there are lots of new releases with incredible tone as long as you sustain notes, use a lot of reverb, avoid pedal changes, don't play anything fast or dynamic, etc etc. They're still stunningly good for sound design. 

Everyone has different uses. For example my experience with the Walker is it's firmly in the second category based on the way it handles releases. But other people don't seem to mind at all.


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## shawnsingh (Jan 22, 2020)

I'm very happy with VSL Synchron CFX. Don't have broad experience with other offerings, but the Synchron CFX seems versatile enough for my wants, with more than enough mic positions and options to dial in bright/mellow/dynamic/una corda/room size preferences.


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## Michael Antrum (Jan 22, 2020)

Problem is, picking a VST piano is like choosing a girlfriend/boyfriend.

We all seem to have slightly different tastes - and wouldn't life be awful if this wasn't so.

Just in case you weren't aware, VSL pianos have a 30 day refund window* (and can be resold with a fee) so it's kind of risk free.....

(*should clarify - when purchased from VSL directly - you'll need to check with other sellers).


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## Zee (Jan 22, 2020)

CineSamples' Randy's prepared piano is has a big palette recorded at MGM so it pairs really well with CinePiano


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## ridgero (Jan 23, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> Problem is, picking a VST piano is like choosing a girlfriend/boyfriend.
> 
> We all seem to have slightly different tastes - and wouldn't life be awful if this wasn't so.
> 
> ...



Yes!

There are alot of very good sampled Pianos out there, but it all comes down to your own taste.


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## Studio E (Jan 23, 2020)

I still can't get over my love for Pianoteq, especially the Bluethner model. It is my most favorite piano of over 20 I own. The playability factors-in heavily for me as I am a piano player.


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## Fleer (Jan 23, 2020)

Indeed also my preferred Pianoteq instrument, but have a look at the Steingraeber. Quite remarkable.


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## SupremeFist (Jan 23, 2020)

Buz said:


> For example my experience with the Walker is it's firmly in the second category based on the way it handles releases. But other people don't seem to mind at all.


Do you have the adaptive releases switched on?


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## BezO (Jan 23, 2020)

I've come to the conclusion that my ear is not good enough to hear the difference between good and great piano VIs. I recently picked up the Hammersmith thinking it would sound vastly superior to the NI bundled pianos. It's different, but doing it over again, I'd be satisfied with the The Grandeur and Maverick.

Or maybe the Hammersmith is not great. Or maybe the NI grands are.

I also have Arturia's modeled pianos and like them.


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## 2chris (Jan 23, 2020)

BezO said:


> I've come to the conclusion that my ear is not good enough to hear the difference between good and great piano VIs. I recently picked up the Hammersmith thinking it would sound vastly superior to the NI bundled pianos. It's different, but doing it over again, I'd be satisfied with the The Grandeur and Maverick.
> 
> Or maybe the Hammersmith is not great. Or maybe the NI grands are.
> 
> I also have Arturia's modeled pianos and like them.


I think that going from good/professional quality to "better" or "best in class" brings diminishing but noticeable returns. If you're listening on good monitors / headphones, you should notice a difference in character overall of each sample set, but it doesn't mean one is so much better or different. They are all professionally sampled pianos afterall. I find the NI stuff to be great (Alicia's keys, Gentleman, Noire, Una Corda are great imo), but I find that Hammersmith is noticeably better than the Grandeur.

I personally don't like modeled piano, either Pianoteq or V Piano. I'm amazed how many people here like them. Nobody is right or wrong. It's taste. I don't like pistachios so much, but the grocery store sells a lot of them.


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## Rob (Jan 23, 2020)

VSL Synchron Steinway here


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## BezO (Jan 23, 2020)

2chris said:


> I think that going from good/professional quality to "better" or "best in class" brings diminishing but noticeable returns. If you're listening on good monitors / headphones, you should notice a difference in character overall of each sample set, but it doesn't mean one is so much better or different. They are all professionally sampled pianos afterall. I find the NI stuff to be great (Alicia's keys, Gentleman, Noire, Una Corda are great imo), but I find that Hammersmith is noticeably better than the Grandeur.


Agreed.

Going in more detail, I'm not sure if what I'm hearing is better quality vs the difference in instrument, microphones, recording space, etc. I do like and use The Hammersmith more, but I attribute it more to the features. Experimenting with the mic options before touching EQ & reverb is enjoyable. So maybe I would buy the Hammersmith if doing it again. But the Grandeur is no slouch.

And the Una Corda is my favorite of the NI bundled pianos, maybe because I've been experimenting with cinematic soundscapes as of late. I wanted Noire, but figured I had that covered between Una Corda and ASCEND. I'd be happy to see it bundled in 13 Ultimate.



2chris said:


> I personally don't like modeled piano, either Pianoteq or V Piano. I'm amazed how many people here like them. Nobody is right or wrong. It's taste. I don't like pistachios so much, but the grocery store sells a lot of them.


I used these the least, but there are some presets in there that I really like.


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## Michael Antrum (Jan 23, 2020)

I really don't like Pianoteq, but as they say in all the great old movies, 'it's not you, it's me'.

But for me, the playability is almost as important as the tone. Some VST's seem to make more of a connection with you when you play them. The NI Pianos sound great, but they just miss somehow when I play them.

Piantoeq's playability is great, but the plastic tone of certain registers I really don't like. However, I have a Nord Stage 2EX, and there are a couple of piano in there that are 250 mb or less in size that I can play all day. Which just goes to show, size isn't everything..... (at least that's what I tell the wife....)

But the connection you can get when you sit down at the keyboard and just play them is what gets me lost in music for hours on end. For that, for me, right now, is VSL Synchron Steinway D274 and the comfy old Bosie upright.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 23, 2020)

I wish VSL shared more contemporary (for lack of a better word) demos of their instruments. They tend to focus more on classical pieces - for owners of the VSL pianos, is that their strong suit or are they rather flexible in terms of tone?


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## Rob (Jan 23, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I wish VSL shared more contemporary (for lack of a better word) demos of their instruments. They tend to focus more on classical pieces - for owners of the VSL pianos, is that their strong suit or are they rather flexible in terms of tone?


as I'm only interested in close mics it seems bit of a waste to have to buy all those room/ambient mics in order to have the close ones... I only have the standard edition so I'm stuck with the condenser and the mid mics. I'll buy the full library just to have the tube close mic. Anyway, even so, there are many different sounds one can get from the standard, here a couple examples, one in what used to be the pop music of my time, and a bit of a jazz ballad, two very short examples just to let you hear a context not covered by vsl official demos...


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## Digivolt (Jan 23, 2020)

Herman Samples - Home







hermansamples.com





Came out with a beautiful Piano


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## Vangance (Jan 23, 2020)

Have this standard vsl piano and found it very bright and a little tinny up top for me. 
I use galaxy vintage steinway d for everything really. Fabulous in all genres and eminently tweakable to suit all needs. The idea of having 20 odd piano libraries is ludicrous to me, use your ears and programming skills to adapt. The steinway d will give you what you want with some effort!!


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## shawnsingh (Jan 23, 2020)

Some more CFX examples I had uploaded around vi-control:






VSL Synchron Pianos advice


Hi, forum newbie here who's just dipped a toe into VSL with the recent BF promos. Blown away by the quality of the libraries compared to anything I've tried before - and that's just the Synchronized SE1 and VSO! Anyway, as a dabbling (non-classically trained) piano player, the thing that I'm...




vi-control.net









Which synchron piano has more timbre range between low/high velocities?


Hi all, I'm looking to buy one of the Synchron pianos. They both sound great in videos and demos I've heard. I don't feel I've heard enough of the extremely quiet range of either piano though. Any demos around which show the super quiet side of both pianos? One thing I loved about my...




vi-control.net





I've tweaked my latest snapshot a bit differently but is in the same ballpark.


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## CGR (Jan 23, 2020)

Vangance said:


> Have this standard vsl piano and found it very bright and a little tinny up top for me.
> I use galaxy vintage steinway d for everything really. Fabulous in all genres and eminently tweakable to suit all needs. The idea of having 20 odd piano libraries is ludicrous to me, use your ears and programming skills to adapt. The steinway d will give you what you want with some effort!!


The Galaxy Vintage D really stands the test of time. It's a 1920's era Steinway so has that magic tone they are famous for from that era (beautiful aged soundboard timbers & superb craftmanship).

Can't agree with you comment about having 20+ sampled pianos being ludicrous. The range of difference in tone, stereo image, character, playability etc. is vast, and sometimes I'll try 10-12 different sampled pianos within a track before I find the right fit, and no amount of programming/EQ/tweaking will change that. You'll never get a Steinway D sounding like a 1926 Pleyel parlour grand no matter how skilled you are as an engineer.

Plus, I like pianos and am endlessly fascinated by the differences - both real & sampled!


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## PaulieDC (Jan 23, 2020)

Noire and Garritan CFX IMO. If you already have Komplete with the Grandeur, spend time with it.


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## Noeticus (Jan 23, 2020)

Does anyone know of a really good piano library that was genuinely recorded
at, and can be played at, 24 bit 96khz or better sampling rate? 

192khz would be even better!


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## CGR (Jan 23, 2020)

Noeticus said:


> Does anyone know of a really good piano library that was genuinely recorded
> at, and can be played at, 24 bit 96khz or better sampling rate?
> 
> 192khz would be even better!


Yep. I have it and it's a beauty:









PIANO Premier “at first light”


PIANO Premier “at first light” PREMIER SOUND FACTORY Super Hi-Res Steinway Acoustic Piano Library in 96kHz/24bit for NI Kontakt Full version (NOT Kontakt Player) Buy Now $129 + Tax PREMIER Software Instrument Trio Pf: PIANO Premier “at first light” Bs:…




premiersoundfactory.com


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## Noeticus (Jan 23, 2020)

CGR said:


> Yep. I have it and it's a beauty:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks!

I also found this online, but can find no walkthrough video, or any real details, or review about it.


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## CGR (Jan 23, 2020)

Despite the varying opinions of the authenticity of sound, Pianoteq is well worth keeping up with as it continues to mature and develop. V6 marked a noticeable improvement in the hammer attack and naturalness of all models (particularly with the latest C.Bechstein D282 Concert Grand).

When matched to a good weighted controller, the playing experience and control of nuance is unmatched in the sampled/virtual piano world IMHO. If I can load up a piano and play and get inspired without being distracted by velocity level jumps, pedalling problems or computer performance issues, then it just leaves me to focus on the music, and then look at production/engineering duties afterwards.


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## CGR (Jan 23, 2020)

Noeticus said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I also found this online, but can find no walkthrough video or any real details or review about it.


Yeah, there's not much info about it online. Pretty basic GUI - has the ability to load 3 different mic sets (one being a mono mic) but you can't mix the sets in the interface - you'd simply need to create a Kontakt multi for that.

Really good piano - it's a smaller Hamburg Steinway O Grand (180cm) captured with a pristine quality studio setup.
Plays really well and not too heavy on computer resources. The built in reverb impulse responses are very good too, and well matched to the piano. Their demo video is very much what you get in terms of sound - very realistic.


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## sostenuto (Jan 23, 2020)

Every top acoustic grand tends to these very issues, yet no known VSTi comes even close to previously enjoyed Mason Hamlin and Grotrian Steinweg concert grands. 

Stayin' with best best of sampled libs ... warts and all


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## Noeticus (Jan 23, 2020)

CGR said:


> Yeah, there's not much info about it online. Pretty basic GUI - has the ability to load 3 different mic sets (one being a mono mic) but you can't mix the sets in the interface - you'd simply need to create a Kontakt multi for that.
> 
> Really good piano - it's a smaller Hamburg Steinway O Grand (180cm) captured with a pristine quality studio setup.
> Plays really well and not too heavy on computer resources. The built in reverb impulse responses are very good too, and well matched to the piano. Their demo video is very much what you get in terms of sound - very realistic.



Thanks!

Are there any more high sample rate pianos out there?


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## CGR (Jan 23, 2020)

Noeticus said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Are there any more high sample rate pianos out there?


Production Voices Production Grand (Yamaha C7) & Concert Grand (Steinway D) have 24bit 96kHz versions available:






Concert Grand | Production Voices







www.productionvoices.com


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## river angler (Jan 23, 2020)

Between Noire & Ascend you really have everything from a very detailed intricate felt piano and classic grand piano to a filmic soundscaping piano instrument. I have both these piano libraries to cover all my piano needs both in the studio and live on stage. Both fantastically creative, expressive musical instruments in their own right.
I really don't see how anyone could possibly need yet another piano library considering the vast capabilities between these two.


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## SupremeFist (Jan 23, 2020)

As for pianos released in 2019, the Experimenta Due instruments also deserve a glowing mention.


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## SupremeFist (Jan 23, 2020)

river angler said:


> Between Noire & Ascend you really have everything from a very detailed intricate felt piano and classic grand piano to a filmic soundscaping piano instrument. I have both these piano libraries to cover all my piano needs both in the studio and live on stage. Both fantastically creative, expressive musical instruments in their own right.
> I really don't see how anyone could possibly need yet another piano library considering the vast capabilities between these two.



I have both of these and they are excellent for some purposes but to my ears there is a noticeable step up in depth and realism of sound when you get to the pianos that have real pedal-down resonance samples, which neither of these libraries do. 

As for "how could anyone need more than one or two piano libraries", you might as well tell a guitarist that he doesn't need another guitar.


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## CGR (Jan 23, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> As for pianos released in 2019, the Experimenta Due instruments also deserve a glowing mention.


Yes - their Yamaha C3 in particular


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## tmhuud (Jan 24, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I wish VSL shared more contemporary (for lack of a better word) demos of their instruments. They tend to focus more on classical pieces - for owners of the VSL pianos, is that their strong suit or are they rather flexible in terms of tone?



If you want to hear a GREAT comparison of the Vsl pianos check out Stephen Limbaugh’s video At:






PIANOS - Vienna Symphonic Library


This bundle contains all the pianos recorded at Synchron Stage Vienna.




www.vsl.co.at





(scroll down). He touches on nearly every genre.


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## TomislavEP (Jan 24, 2020)

The "one-fits-all" piano library is something that I've never really considered, as each of the piano types, as well as the brand, brings its own character that is more or less suitable for a particular style or need. However, recently I've purchased "Noire" and this is maybe the most serious contender for such a library in my book.

The pianos from Native Instruments / Galaxy Instruments provide an absolute bedrock for me and I use each of them frequently. In addition to those, I also have some more specialized ones from developers like Embertone, Spitfire Audio, and Sound Dust. For quite some time, I've considered getting "Woodchester Piano" and "Midnight Grand" from Fracture Sounds as well, due to their unique background layer sounds that blend seamlessly with the principal sound. Lately, I've been also exploring what is on offer at Pianobook.com - a treasure trove of characterful piano libraries if not always pristine ones.


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## Theodor Andrews (Jan 24, 2020)

If you go for emotional stuff, search for Lekko by felt instruments.


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## Mason (Jan 24, 2020)

Thanks for all your recommendations. Based on this I'm probably gonna get both Noire and Cinepiano (very impressed with the latter).


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## CGR (Jan 24, 2020)

Mason said:


> Thanks for all your recommendations. Based on this I'm probably gonna get both Noire and Cinepiano (very impressed with the latter).


I was just listening back to some stuff I recorded with CinePiano a few minutes ago. Wonderfully resonant & real sounding sampled piano - I'm sure you'll enjoy it.


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## Consona (Jan 24, 2020)

Must say, I've bought Sampletekk's White Grand for $8 and it's the most beautiful piano I've heard.
Not anything _latest_ but still, the sound...


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## CGR (Jan 24, 2020)

Consona said:


> Must say, I've bought Sampletekk's White Grand for $8 and it's the most beautiful piano I've heard.
> Not anything _latest_ but still, the sound...


I know what you mean - it has that wiry, swirling, antique grand piano tone not often found in the sampled piano world. Huge dynamic range. It's worth upgrading to the MkII version. Works great in a mix - really holds its space, and it's not too boomy so doesn't muddy things up. You've reminded me to call it up again!


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## pianistje (Jan 24, 2020)

Consona said:


> Must say, I've bought Sampletekk's White Grand for $8 and it's the most beautiful piano I've heard.
> Not anything _latest_ but still, the sound...


Nord also use Sampletekk piano’s in their ROM, albite a much smaller footprint and different names. Although the ‘rain piano’ has the same name.
Up front the Nord sound very realistic compared to other stage piano’s and is many live musicians first choice.

Sampletekk and their organic piano’s should have some credits.


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## Noeticus (Jan 24, 2020)

CGR said:


> Production Voices Production Grand (Yamaha C7) & Concert Grand (Steinway D) have 24bit 96kHz versions available:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



THANKS for this info!!!


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## Noeticus (Jan 24, 2020)

Looks like I can get 192khz with "Pianoteq". Awesome!


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## Thundercat (Jan 24, 2020)

river angler said:


> Between Noire & Ascend you really have everything from a very detailed intricate felt piano and classic grand piano to a filmic soundscaping piano instrument. I have both these piano libraries to cover all my piano needs both in the studio and live on stage. Both fantastically creative, expressive musical instruments in their own right.
> I really don't see how anyone could possibly need yet another piano library considering the vast capabilities between these two.


I like chocolate. Every flavor ever invented, or that ever will be. Each is different. And I wanna try them all. Each *is* different.


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## Thundercat (Jan 24, 2020)

Noeticus said:


> Looks like I can get 192khz with "Pianoteq". Awesome!


Curious. Why so hung up on the high sample rate?


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## Thundercat (Jan 24, 2020)

Consona said:


> Must say, I've bought Sampletekk's White Grand for $8 and it's the most beautiful piano I've heard.
> Not anything _latest_ but still, the sound...


Nice! Where’d you find it for $8?


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## Consona (Jan 24, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Nice! Where’d you find it for $8?


It was on sale a few weeks ago. I'd say just wait for another one, they have sales quite frequently, although this one was 90% off, which is huge.


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## Thundercat (Jan 25, 2020)

Consona said:


> It was on sale a few weeks ago. I'd say just wait for another one, they have sales quite frequently, although this one was 90% off, which is huge.


Helpful, thx!


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## Noeticus (Jan 25, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Curious. Why so hung up on the high sample rate?



Sounds Effects by slowing the sound down.


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## Thundercat (Jan 25, 2020)

Anyone have any experience with the Neo Plano from Sound Magic? Sounds intriguing...


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## CGR (Jan 25, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Neo Plano from Sound Magic? Sounds intriguing...



Some recent info (including my feedback/opinion) here:






2020 NAMM Show Sale Event: Save up to 71% on instruments and effect plugins


Sound Magic has some exclusive deals throughout the duration of the NAMM show. Offers include: 71% off Neo EQ 71% off Upright Grand 50% OFF China Impression 25% off Neo Piano Get Pipa Free when you purchase Bamboo Dreams GetKonghou Free when you purchase Guzheng For more deals, please visit our...




vi-control.net





The sale on the Uprights is extended until Jan 27th.


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## Thundercat (Jan 25, 2020)

CGR said:


> Some recent info (including my feedback/opinion) here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you CGR. I like your sample and the neo piano sounded terrific too. Will consider for next round of sales.


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## Rich4747 (Jan 26, 2020)

I like Noire


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## river angler (Jan 26, 2020)

Rich4747 said:


> I like Noire


Noire is indeed so musical! When I bought Ascend at the same time I new I was getting two wide ranging piano "scapers" and straight piano players at the same time!


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## dsblais (Jan 26, 2020)

As good the VSL Synchron pianos are, I have found VSL Imperial more enjoyable and my favorite all around. Does anyone have both and prefer the VSL Synchron and, if so, why?


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## CGR (Jan 27, 2020)

dsblais said:


> As good the VSL Synchron pianos are, I have found VSL Imperial more enjoyable and my favorite all around. Does anyone have both and prefer the VSL Synchron and, if so, why?



I have the VSL Synchron Bluthner & Bosendorfer Upright Standard editions which are superb, and also the VSL Vienna Imperial which really holds it own against the Synchron pianos in my opinion. Obviously very different pianos & characters, so hard to say which I prefer, because I use them for different purposes & character.

The VSL Vienna Imperial was created with quite a different approach to sampling compared to the VSL Synchron pianos - sampled at three positions with multi mic setups (Close, Player, Distant) in the controlled acoustic of VSL's Silent Stage, and the ability to apply reverb to those with the built-in Impulse Responses which include the beautiful ambience of the _Wiener_ Konzerthaus Mozart Saal amongst others. The only downside I see is that half-pedalling is not implemented like in the Synchron pianos, and a few users have complained about minor tuning inconsistencies in the treble at higher velocities, which personally never bothers me.

The VSL Vienna Imperial impresses me every time I use it or hear it. Stunning tone & realism.


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## Gerter (Jan 27, 2020)

How is the Noire piano recorded? Can't find any information on the website regarding what mic setup it has. Are the different mic options?


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## CGR (Jan 27, 2020)

Gerter said:


> How is the Noire piano recorded? Can't find any information on the website regarding what mic setup it has. Are the different mic options?


No mic options, apart from a separate sub mic for the bottom end. I believe after much testing they settled on a pair of Neumann LDC mics up near the hammers, and another single mic near the tail.


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## Rob (Jan 27, 2020)

CGR said:


> No mic options, apart from a separate sub mic for the bottom end. I believe after much testing they settled on a pair of Neumann LDC mics up near the hammers, and another single mic near the tail.


off topic, Craig, but I always remain astonished by the sheer number of piano libraries you have


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## CGR (Jan 27, 2020)

Rob said:


> off topic, Craig, but I always remain astonished by the sheer number of piano libraries you have


Ha, I know Rob - I really do have a problem! Although I have been collecting them for almost 20 years. Luckily I wasn't around in the 1920s or I'd have a house full of acoustic pianos (and not much else)


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## Gerter (Jan 27, 2020)

CGR said:


> No mic options, apart from a separate sub mic for the bottom end. I believe after much testing they settled on a pair of Neumann LDC mics up near the hammers, and another single mic near the tail.



Interesting, thanks for letting me know. 
How does it blend with an orchestra? Is it easy to mix in into other settings?


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## CGR (Jan 27, 2020)

Gerter said:


> Interesting, thanks for letting me know.
> How does it blend with an orchestra? Is it easy to mix in into other settings?


I haven't used Noire in that role, as I find I achieve more natural results in a quicker amount of time using a sampled piano with dedicated distant/ambient mics, mixed with the same piano's close or mid mics. Ones which come to mind are the VSL grands, Cinesamples Cinepiano, Sampletekk Black Grand MKII, and Garritan Yamaha CFX. Cinematic Studio Piano (Yamaha C7) also works quite well in this role, and is very affordable at $69 running in the free Kontakt Player.


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## Gerter (Jan 27, 2020)

CGR said:


> I haven't used Noire in that role, as I find I achieve more natural results in a quicker amount of time using a sampled piano with dedicated distant/ambient mics, mixed with the same piano's close or mid mics. Ones which come to mind are the VSL grands, Cinesamples Cinepiano, Sampletekk Black Grand MKII, and Garritan Yamaha CFX. Cinematic Studio Piano (Yamaha C7) also works quite well in this role, and is very affordable at $69 running in the free Kontakt Player.



I see, maybe I'll look into those instead than. Thanks you for the reply!


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## Violeiro (Jan 27, 2020)

Noire is very sweet, gentle, easy to play. But i think it lacks a bit of wildness and expressivity to be a leading-piano in some kinds of music.


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## jjmmuir (Feb 27, 2020)

Violeiro said:


> Noire is very sweet, gentle, easy to play. But i think it lacks a bit of wildness and expressivity to be a leading-piano in some kinds of music.



Perhaps you're right but the piano is smooth and balanced, and is inspiring to play. Particularly if you factor in the particles engine which looked like a gimmick at first but actually delivers, for me any way. Puts a smile on my face every time I turn it on:


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## bvaughn0402 (Feb 27, 2020)

It's funny ... I keep buying pianos looking for the "holy grail" ... yet I find I keep going back to PianoTeq. And honorable mention to Keyscape.


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## Violeiro (Feb 27, 2020)

jjmmuir said:


> Perhaps you're right but the piano is smooth and balanced, and is inspiring to play. Particularly if you factor in the particles engine which looked like a gimmick at first but actually delivers, for me any way. Puts a smile on my face every time I turn it on:



Yes, its important to note Noire has an engine that can be much edited and allows it to be way more expressive.

However, when i tried handling it i didnt trust my configuration would surpass the default synthogy ivories i like much. Its a thing interesting to people share their configurations. 
I found the default Noire configuration very good for accompaigment but too soft to play solo piano.


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## lumcas (Feb 27, 2020)

bvaughn0402 said:


> It's funny ... I keep buying pianos looking for the "holy grail" ... yet I find I keep going back to PianoTeq. And honorable mention to Keyscape.



Funny indeed. I love Keyscape but definitely not for its piano. And I find PianoTeq "not there" yet, but it's getting better and better with every major update. I've found my holy grail in VSL Synchron pianos - got all of them and finally ended my quest for "the best". I forget so often that I'm playing samples. And just to play it safe I bought Noire as well

(BTW - Garritan CFX, Ivory American D, Ravenscroft, Vintage D, Una Corda, Frozen Piano, all Fracture Sounds and SampleTekk pianos are also very nice...)


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## Thundercat (Feb 27, 2020)

I’m on track to buy every piano vst ever made. I can’t help myself. I think I need professional help!

I really love the Embertone Walker D and the Cinepiano...as well as Piano in Blue and the Galaxy Puanos...sigh...


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## pfylim (Feb 27, 2020)

Embertone 1955 Walker D

The garritan cfx concert grand is versatile but a resource hog. You need some fast I/O to load the samples quickly.


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## bvaughn0402 (Feb 27, 2020)

lumcas said:


> Funny indeed. I love Keyscape but definitely not for its piano. And I find PianoTeq "not there" yet, but it's getting better and better with every major update. I've found my holy grail in VSL Synchron pianos - got all of them and finally ended my quest for "the best". I forget so often that I'm playing samples. And just to play it safe I bought Noire as well
> 
> (BTW - Garritan CFX, Ivory American D, Ravenscroft, Vintage D, Una Corda, Frozen Piano, all Fracture Sounds and SampleTekk pianos are also very nice...)



Well to be fair, I found myself constantly irritated by PianoTeq ... until they released the Ant Petrof. I really like their Dreamy patch and use it a lot (for the styles I usually write in).

I have VSL, I think the Yamaha. Need to try it more. I like PianoTeq more for the speed of loading I guess, and once I mix a bunch of other instruments in I usually can't tell the difference in most other stuff out there. Now solo piano ... I would debate more.


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## Fleer (Feb 27, 2020)

As for Pianoteq, those latest Bechstein and Steingraeber are real highlights.


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## Akarin (Feb 27, 2020)

bvaughn0402 said:


> It's funny ... I keep buying pianos looking for the "holy grail" ... yet I find I keep going back to PianoTeq. And honorable mention to Keyscape.



Same here... except that I go back to The Grandeur which can do everything that I need and then some.


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## Supremo (Feb 27, 2020)

CinePiano has a beautiful tone and its 'half-pedal release' feature adds a lot of realism to the real-time performance.


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## N.Caffrey (Feb 27, 2020)

I have the ember tone Steinway lite, but I really don’t like it. Is the full version the same with more options? I have piano in blue, which I like, but it’s also very noisy with lots of hiss.


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## lumcas (Feb 27, 2020)

bvaughn0402 said:


> Well to be fair, I found myself constantly irritated by PianoTeq ... until they released the Ant Petrof. I really like their Dreamy patch and use it a lot (for the styles I usually write in).
> 
> I have VSL, I think the Yamaha. Need to try it more. I like PianoTeq more for the speed of loading I guess, and once I mix a bunch of other instruments in I usually can't tell the difference in most other stuff out there. Now solo piano ... I would debate more.



Interesting, maybe I should demo PianoTeq again, I thought I would wait for version 8 or 9 Among VSL options Bluthner 1895 gets my vote right now (I own only standard version, haven't felt the need to upgrade yet) and it's such an organic, balanced and well voiced instrument, full of character. Honestly, this caught me by surprise because these are all qualities VSL isn't often recognized for. But damn, this thing sings!!! Also that Hamburg Steinway D is remarkable. It is a bit brighter than its American counterpart (which is based on true story) but I like the sound since I had the opportunity to play one during my college years and I simply fell in love. Oh, and the VSL player is again very, very good, per key editing feature is so useful, sympathetic and body resonance... Right, I feel I'm starting to sound like a shill so I stop right here. I find the only downside of VSL pianos is the size and therefore loading time. But after all these years I finally feel as if I was set free (if it makes any sense). 

And finally, let me add that despite all my reservations I'm a fan of PianoTeq, I think it's really getting "there" and I'm sure it is already "there" for many happy customers.


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## mikrokosmiko (Feb 27, 2020)

I have una corda and I absolutely love it but it has a very characteristic sound and does not fit in every situation. Does anyone have UVI acoustic suite? Any opinion on that?


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## lumcas (Feb 27, 2020)

N.Caffrey said:


> I have the ember tone Steinway lite, but I really don’t like it. Is the full version the same with more options? I have piano in blue, which I like, but it’s also very noisy with lots of hiss.



I sold Walker D full version here just few days back. I admit I didn't use it much. I remember I liked the pronounced "woodiness" of the tone but in general it just didn't click with me, And I completely agree with your sentiment regarding Piano in Blue. The tone is wonderful but the playability and noise build-up is something I can't get over.


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## CGR (Feb 27, 2020)

lumcas said:


> Interesting, maybe I should demo PianoTeq again, I thought I would wait for version 8 or 9 Among VSL options Bluthner 1895 gets my vote right now (I own only standard version, haven't felt the need to upgrade yet) and it's such an organic, balanced and well voiced instrument, full of character. Honestly, this caught me by surprise because these are all qualities VSL isn't often recognized for. But damn, this thing sings!!! Also that Hamburg Steinway D is remarkable. It is a bit brighter than its American counterpart (which is based on true story) but I like the sound since I had the opportunity to play one during my college years and I simply fell in love. Oh, and the VSL player is again very, very good, per key editing feature is so useful, sympathetic and body resonance... Right, I feel I'm starting to sound like a shill so I stop right here. I find the only downside of VSL pianos is the size and therefore loading time. But after all these years I finally feel as if I was set free (if it makes any sense).
> 
> And finally, let me add that despite all my reservations I'm a fan of PianoTeq, I think it's really getting "there" and I'm sure it is already "there" for many happy customers.


I agree lumcas. Having only recently entered the VSL world, I'm very impressed with their pianos (I have the 1895 Bluthner which has such a unique & lyrical antique tone, the warm and resonant Bosendorfer 130 Upright and the older VSL Vienna Imperial). The Synchron Player is superb and the customisation of tone is brilliant.

I had been thinking about trying to hunt down the old Pro Audio Vault Bluthner Digital Model One (not sure it's for sale anymore) but called up the VSL Vienna Imperial, loaded up a Chopin MIDI file and then thought "the Vienna Imperial still impresses me":


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## ptram (Feb 27, 2020)

CGR said:


> The only downside I see is that half-pedalling is not implemented like in the Synchron pianos


I miss half-pedalling a lot from the VSL Vienna Imperial. However, the pedal is not immediately cut on release, and lifting it produces a smooth release that is similar to half-pedalling. Not controllable as it should, but at least realistic in some (if not most) cases.

Paolo


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## lumcas (Feb 27, 2020)

CGR said:


> I agree lumcas. Having only recently entered the VSL world, I'm very impressed with their pianos (I have the 1895 Bluthner which has such a unique & lyrical antique tone, the warm and resonant Bosendorfer 130 Upright and the older VSL Vienna Imperial). The Synchron Player is superb and the customisation of tone is brilliant.
> 
> I had been thinking about trying to hunt down the old Pro Audio Vault Bluthner Digital Model One (not sure it's for sale anymore) but called up the VSL Vienna Imperial, loaded up a Chopin MIDI file and then thought "the Vienna Imperial still impresses me":



Great classical sound, very nice playing, is this you? I should practice more... And how old is VSL Imperial library, 10-15 years? It has aged pretty well, right? Are there any other mic options? I don't like player position much when listening to a record, it's maybe just me....


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## CGR (Feb 27, 2020)

ptram said:


> I miss half-pedalling a lot from the VSL Vienna Imperial. However, the pedal is not immediately cut on release, and lifting it produces a smooth release that is similar to half-pedalling. Not controllable as it should, but at least realistic in some (if not most) cases.
> 
> Paolo


Yes, it somehow manages to handle it surprisingly well, even though it's not properly supported like the latest VSL pianos


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## CGR (Feb 27, 2020)

lumcas said:


> Great classical sound, very nice playing, is this you? I should practice more... And how old is VSL Imperial library, 10-15 years? It has aged pretty well, right? Are there any other mic options? I don't like player position much when listening to a record, it's maybe just me....


I wish it were me! It's a classical MIDI file credited to someone called "Lubetsky". The excerpt was using the Player mics (which is just what I had loaded) There are Close, Player & Distant mic sets, so it would be more convincing/realistic using the Distant mics. Not sure exactly when the VSL Vienna Imperial was released - from what I've found it was around 2009.


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## tc9000 (Feb 27, 2020)

Fleer said:


> waiting for Pianoteq to unveil a new one, hopefully this time a Fazioli.



Please, Modartt - if you are reading this: Fazioli, Fazioli... FAZIOLI!!!


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## CGR (Feb 27, 2020)

Here's the same Chopin MIDI excerpt from before, with the Distant Mics from the VSL Vienna Imperial.


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## Fleer (Feb 27, 2020)

lumcas said:


> I sold Walker D full version here just few days back. I admit I didn't use it much. I remember I liked the pronounced "woodiness" of the tone but in general it just didn't click with me, And I completely agree with your sentiment regarding Piano in Blue. The tone is wonderful but the playability and noise build-up is something I can't get over.


You may want to try their CinePiano if you haven’t already. It’s somewhat similar.


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## Gingerbread (Feb 27, 2020)

Just picked up CinePiano, as it's 40% off this week. Got it for $119.


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## JohnG (Feb 27, 2020)

ptram said:


> I miss half-pedalling a lot from the VSL Vienna Imperial. However, the pedal is not immediately cut on release, and lifting it produces a smooth release that is similar to half-pedalling. Not controllable as it should, but at least realistic in some (if not most) cases.
> 
> Paolo



Interesting.

All the piano players I work with just hold the pedal down the whole time and hit the keys as hard as possible.


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## chimuelo (Feb 27, 2020)

They only need the Yamaha pedal, best half pedal out there.
Perfect for hard hitting heavy foot cats.

A really unique feature nobody seems to use is the Harmonic Pedal on PTeq.
It’s very editable and pushes out much more harmonic content than half pedal/sustain phrasing.

I discovered it while doing a Barrell House Ragtime gig. Sostenuto really comes in handy when you want to avoid choppiness associated with 3 part playing.
Accidentally mapped the Harmonic to the Sos CC# and it sucked, but had a beautiful sound.

I haven’t bought a Piano in years. Mostly because I layer PianoTeq/Keyscape and sometimes add Rosewood or VGP by Hans A.
I have to layer for a bigger sound and fortunately Keyscape nails release samples and attack transients. Every other piano just adds different tone.
Plenty of options, even Wing Upright with VGP is a viscous Upright.

Too bad sampled pianos can’t edit like PianoTeq.
WaveState Piano is a cool blend too, especially when Iceland preset is used.

Sorry, I tend to get carried away...


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## renegade (Feb 28, 2020)

VI Labs recently released their Modern U, a very great sounding and playable upright piano. It can do clean and crisp, as well as dark and cinematic. Same high standard as their Ravenscroft, which I also like very much. 

Sampletekk The Big One, one of my favorites too.


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## ptram (Feb 28, 2020)

By the way: I know Fazioli is working with PSound on something. Maybe it will be the definitive Fazioli library?

Paolo


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## CGR (Mar 8, 2020)

ptram said:


> By the way: I know Fazioli is working with PSound on something. Maybe it will be the definitive Fazioli library?
> 
> Paolo


Any info on a release date?


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## ptram (Mar 9, 2020)

CGR said:


> Any info on a release date?


No idea, sorry.

Paolo


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## doctoremmet (Apr 2, 2020)

I recently got the 8dio 1985 Passionate Piano. That’s a Yamaha C5. It has a great tone and I quite like it. Way more than I expected to, to be honest. It has entered my top 3 now. Very warm sounding, and comes with separate una corda and staccato articulations as well.

Currently on sale for $58, it’s a no brainer.


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## Vangance (Apr 2, 2020)

I have this one, fabulous, can't fault it and I've tried dozens... Beautiful for both classical and jazz...


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## DawdlePuss (Apr 3, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I recently got the 8dio 1985 Passionate Piano. That’s a Yamaha C5. It has a great tone and I quite like it. Way more than I expected to, to be honest. It has entered my top 3 now. Very warm sounding, and comes with separate una corda and staccato articulations as well.
> 
> Currently on sale for $58, it’s a no brainer.



Just for curiosity's sake, what is the rest of your top 3?


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## David Kudell (Apr 3, 2020)

What I love about Noire is the sub bass option, it overlays bass onto the low keys and really adds a satisfying feeling to playing it.


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## CGR (Apr 3, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> What I love about Noire is the sub bass option, it overlays bass onto the low keys and really adds a satisfying feeling to playing it.


Those sub bass samples were captured with a modified mic underneath the piano. Adds a fantastic fullness to the sound.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 3, 2020)

DawdlePuss said:


> Just for curiosity's sake, what is the rest of your top 3?


1. NI Noire (Yamaha CFX)
2. Embertone Walker (Steinway D)
3. 1985 Passionate Piano (Yamaha C5)

The Xperimenta Due, Yamaha C3 also appears to sound good in demos so far, but I don’t know that one. What are yours?


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## DawdlePuss (Apr 3, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> What are yours?



I wish I could confidently answer this question. I own Fluffy Audio's My Piano, Fracture Sounds Woodchester, VSL's D-274 (the Special Edition one), VI Labs Modern U and Ravenscroft iOS, and Addictive Keys Studio Grand. Currently, it feels like the one I like the most of that list is Ravenscroft which I only have on my iPad, but that being said, the piano that I enjoy playing the most is Spitfire LABS Soft Piano. It is the one that feels the most alive and real to me. I teach private lessons at two different studios during the week and end up playing on four different uprights of varying quality throughout each week, and honestly the LABS piano is the one that feels the most like those in terms of the sound I'm hearing in response to my playing. I'm basically forever on the hunt for something else that gives me that same feeling of being directly in front of the real instrument, preferably not a felted piano.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 3, 2020)

DawdlePuss said:


> I wish I could confidently answer this question. I own Fluffy Audio's My Upright, Fracture Sounds Woodchester, VSL's D-274 (the Special Edition one), VI Labs Modern U and Ravenscroft iOS, and Addictive Keys Studio Grand. Currently, it feels like the one I like the most of that list is Ravenscroft which I only have on my iPad, but that being said, the piano that I enjoy playing the most is Spitfire LABS Soft Piano. It is the one that feels the most alive and real to me. I teach private lessons at two different studios during the week and end up playing on four different uprights of varying quality throughout each week, and honestly the LABS piano is the one that feels the most like those in terms of the sound I'm hearing in response to my playing. I'm basically forever on the hunt for something else that gives me that same feeling of being directly in front of the real instrument, preferably not a felted piano.


The LABS one is great. I can also recommend the Spitfire Felt Piano, from their Essentials range. Very close cousin of the one you seem to love and it won’t break the bank either. Very roomy airy feel to it. I gather you may also like NI Una Corda, which is another one that I love as well. I’d say it is in the same “range” both sound- and playability wise. Great answer, thank you!!


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## SupremeFist (Apr 3, 2020)

DawdlePuss said:


> I wish I could confidently answer this question. I own Fluffy Audio's My Upright, Fracture Sounds Woodchester, VSL's D-274 (the Special Edition one), VI Labs Modern U and Ravenscroft iOS, and Addictive Keys Studio Grand. Currently, it feels like the one I like the most of that list is Ravenscroft which I only have on my iPad, but that being said, the piano that I enjoy playing the most is Spitfire LABS Soft Piano. It is the one that feels the most alive and real to me. I teach private lessons at two different studios during the week and end up playing on four different uprights of varying quality throughout each week, and honestly the LABS piano is the one that feels the most like those in terms of the sound I'm hearing in response to my playing. I'm basically forever on the hunt for something else that gives me that same feeling of being directly in front of the real instrument, preferably not a felted piano.


Sounds like you might enjoy Piano In Blue or Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano (both of which are in my top... 5?) And the Experimenta Due C3 should definitely be on your radar, if not an insta-buy.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 3, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Sounds like you might enjoy Piano In Blue or Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano (both of which are in my top... 5?)


Piano In Blue. I was kind of hoping it was included in the 50% sale of Cinematic stuff on Native Instruments, but sadly it is not. I need to get it I guess, just the Bill Evans and Glenn Gould background story is enough... And then there’s the Youtube video of Jamiroquai’s Matt Johnson. I reckon ANYBODY with a love for piano’s is sucked in, after watching it. Good one!


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## SupremeFist (Apr 3, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Piano In Blue. I was kind of hoping it was included in the 50% sale of Cinematic stuff on Native Instruments, but sadly it is not. I need to get it I guess, just the Bill Evans and Glenn Gould background story is enough... And then there’s the Youtube video of Jamiroquai’s Matt Johnson. I reckon ANYBODY with a love for piano’s is sucked in, after watching it. Good one!


I paid full price for it last year and never regretted it for a second. Truly inspirational.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 3, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I paid full price for it last year and never regretted it for a second. Truly inspirational.


I hear ya! Watch the Matt Johnson video?


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## SupremeFist (Apr 3, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I hear ya! Watch the Matt Johnson video?


Yes, it's great!


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## zadillo (Apr 4, 2020)

DawdlePuss said:


> I wish I could confidently answer this question. I own Fluffy Audio's My Piano, Fracture Sounds Woodchester, VSL's D-274 (the Special Edition one), VI Labs Modern U and Ravenscroft iOS, and Addictive Keys Studio Grand. Currently, it feels like the one I like the most of that list is Ravenscroft which I only have on my iPad, but that being said, the piano that I enjoy playing the most is Spitfire LABS Soft Piano. It is the one that feels the most alive and real to me. I teach private lessons at two different studios during the week and end up playing on four different uprights of varying quality throughout each week, and honestly the LABS piano is the one that feels the most like those in terms of the sound I'm hearing in response to my playing. I'm basically forever on the hunt for something else that gives me that same feeling of being directly in front of the real instrument, preferably not a felted piano.



what do you think of the Modern U? I haven’t heard much about it but I like VI Labs other pianos


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## doctoremmet (Apr 4, 2020)

zadillo said:


> what do you think of the Modern U? I haven’t heard much about it but I like VI Labs other pianos


Very curious as well, since I too have not heard much about it...


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## doctoremmet (Apr 4, 2020)

Anybody who owns this one? I have a NI voucher for an extra 25 off:






Would be nice to hear some experiences / thoughts. Any idea as to what type / model piano (I believe there are several) they prepared?


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## CGR (Apr 4, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Anybody who owns this one? I have a NI voucher for an extra 25 off:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've also been considering this, but not sure if it's too niche. From the promo video it showed a Yamaha and Estonia Grand. I already have the UVI Augmented Piano (a vintage Pleyel prepared piano) and have only scratched the surface of that (plus it has the bonus of a straight-up, non prepared preset).


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## doctoremmet (Apr 4, 2020)

CGR said:


> I've been considering
> 
> I've also been considering this, but not sure if it's too niche. From the promo video it showed a Yamaha and Estonia Grand. I already have the UVI Augmented Piano (a vintage Pleyel prepared piano) and have only scratched the surface of that (plus it has the bonus of a straight-up, non prepared preset).


I’m in the exact same boat. The UVI AP sounds cool, and the regular preset is quite good actually. I have even been eyeing their IRCAM offering, as I am a bit of a piano nut and have a thing for the prepared universe. Every time I watch the Youtube showcase of AP (by Louis Couka) I am inspired to play the UVI instrument more. Let me know if you do get it (and like it); it does appear to sound slightly “less edgy” compared to UVI AP?


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## CGR (Apr 4, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I’m in the exact same boat. The UVI AP sounds cool, and the regular preset is quite good actually. I have even been eyeing their IRCAM offering, as I am a bit of a piano nut and have a thing for the prepared universe. Every time I watch the Youtube showcase of AP (by Louis Couka) I am inspired to play the UVI instrument more. Let me know if you do get it (and like it); it does appear to sound slightly “less edgy” compared to UVI AP?


There also a simpler prepared piano from EZkeys called Cinematic Piano. It's an old Bosendorfer Grand with 4 different preparations, but only 4 octaves sampled:









EZkeys Cinematic Grand


Unique fabrics of sound, tailored for ambient soundscapes, soundtracks and creative sound design.




www.toontrack.com


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## DawdlePuss (Apr 4, 2020)

zadillo said:


> what do you think of the Modern U? I haven’t heard much about it but I like VI Labs other pianos



I'm a bit conflicted on it. It is very flexible in how far you can stretch its tone, and if you are looking for an almost over-the-top crisp high end, this thing delivers there. To me, the notes almost feel too in tune, if such a thing is possible. What I don't like about it is really that lack of depth and boom in the lower register no matter which mic position I've picked. It could just be an EQ thing, but I've approached it from as many angles as I can, and I can never get it to sound like anything larger than a spinet. Out of the uprights I regularly play, they sound much fuller in arguably far worse spaces than I imagine this was recorded, and that bugs the heck outta me.

The interface for it is nothing short of amazing. It is very easy to utilize, and the options are laid out clearly, so that's a definite plus. The samples are very, very dry, so it takes reverb well. The room mic isn't that roomy, so it adds body, but it definitely doesn't really add the feeling of a big space, which for me is a plus, as I can't get away from that sound on the VSL D-274. Since I play so regularly in smaller rooms, I've really grown to love a close, intimate sound. I was really hoping Modern U would be the end of my search for that sound, but it just doesn't feel like what I would expect of an upright its size below bass C.

If you are in need of something that is dry and crystal clear above treble C, Modern U delivers there. Let me know if you have any specific questions I might be able to answer.


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## SupremeFist (Apr 4, 2020)

DawdlePuss said:


> Since I play so regularly in smaller rooms, I've really grown to love a close, intimate sound. I was really hoping Modern U would be the end of my search for that sound, but it just doesn't feel like what I would expect of an upright its size below bass C.
> .



Have you tried the Experimenta Due C3? That thing has bass for days and a tremendously rich intimate sound overall.


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## DawdlePuss (Apr 4, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Have you tried the Experimenta Due C3? That thing has bass for days and a tremendously rich intimate sound overall.


I haven't. I listened to all the ones you mentioned yesterday, and I heard a lot of great sounds. I really did like the Xperimenta Due (based on the recordings, both of them, honestly) and Scoring Piano, so right now I'm just going back and forth between the two in my head.


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## SupremeFist (Apr 4, 2020)

DawdlePuss said:


> I haven't. I listened to all the ones you mentioned yesterday, and I heard a lot of great sounds. I really did like the Xperimenta Due (based on the recordings, both of them, honestly) and Scoring Piano, so right now I'm just going back and forth between the two in my head.


Just get all three, you'll thank yourself.


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## SoundChris (Apr 6, 2020)

In my opinion the greatest piano library that I have seen / purchased since a very long time was definitely the Walker 1955 D Concert Grand (Steinway) by Embertone. It is not just great sounding. For me the greatest thing is the playability. It just feels right / real and I love just playing it.

For those who are interested in how the instrument behaves if you just play it out of the box with no editing and stuff - just performing and recording - here is a short example that I have recorded just right now:



The track features the instrument within 2 short pieces. The first part is a Bach Fugue from the Well-Tempered Clavier (Vol.II) and the second part is an excerpt from Oscar Peterson´s Body & Soul. Didn´t have much time to play lately but I do think it shows that the Vst is just very cool 

P.s.: This is stil version 1.0. Didn´t have the time yet to download and install the update.


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## johngrant (Apr 6, 2020)

The Bach (D Minor, Book 2) sounds great on the Embertone. I like the Gould-like interpretation, and I'm hearing the Embertone VST doing those 12k-16k hz that are so often MIA on piano vsts.


Here's some Mendelssohn on the (much-disputed even maligned Hans Zimmer Piano):


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## johngrant (Apr 6, 2020)

Haven't figured out how to get rid of that "Here more on SoundCloud" thingy. Anyhow, I guess ALL of the recent crop of piano VSTs are pretty good. A lot depends on what you're looking for.

Personally, I'm not interested in playability, particularly. I want a vst which, when recorded and tweaked, sounds like a modern, well-recorded Hamburg Steinway. 

Not that German Steinways are necessarily great pianos..... it's just that this is what my ears are accustomed to hearing! Ears tend to accommodate to certain "sounds."


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## SoundChris (Apr 6, 2020)

johngrant said:


> The Bach (D Minor, Book 2) sounds great on the Embertone. I like the Gould-like interpretation, and I'm hearing the Embertone VST doing those 12k-16k hz that are so often MIA on piano vsts.
> 
> 
> Here's some Mendelssohn on the (much-disputed even maligned Hans Zimmer Piano):





Thank you very much. Glad you also liked the instrument (my interpretation was quite rushed and imprecise to be honest). I wanted to see if the instrument can handle a big load of voices within a short time without becoming stressed / busy. So far I didn´t realize any problems or glitches.

Impressive piece btw. I also have listened to your interpretation of the D Minor Fugue. Very sophisticated and emotional. I am not sure if it hasn´t too much sustain pedal for the baroque era. But really very beautiful


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## Buz (Apr 6, 2020)

johngrant said:


> Here's some Mendelssohn on the (much-disputed even maligned Hans Zimmer Piano):


Wow that does sound like a piano. Are you saying it took a lot of tweaking to get it there?

Such a joyful interpretation too. Really compelling.


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## johngrant (Apr 6, 2020)

SoundChris said:


> Thank you very much. Glad you also liked the instrument (my interpretation was quite rushed and imprecise to be honest). I wanted to see if the instrument can handle a big load of voices within a short time without becoming stressed / busy. So far I didn´t realize any problems or glitches.
> 
> Impressive piece btw. I also have listened to your interpretation of the D Minor Fugue. Very sophisticated and emotional. I am not sure if it hasn´t too much sustain pedal for the baroque era. But really very beautiful


Actually.... having heard YOUR interpretation, I'm in the throes of overhauling my own at SC. Yours is MUCH BETTER. And you are absolutely right (objective truth is for science, absolute truth is appropriate to aesthetic judgment): too much pedal. Way too much. And the entries of the subject are completely lost. No articulation. So... yeah.... I'm changing that as I write. And you'll hear something pretty different in the next few minutes.


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## johngrant (Apr 6, 2020)

Buz said:


> Wow that does sound like a piano. Are you saying it took a lot of tweaking to get it there?
> 
> Such a joyful interpretation too. Really compelling.


It's a piano roll, MIDIfied by who knows. I had to alter the tempo and pull up pretty much everything north of C5 (C above middle C). The Roll is attributed to Rachmaninoff, but who knows how true that is. Anyhow, the tempo is erratic, and for my money the interpretation is a little off. But the VST sounds pretty good, as in, like a "not bad" recording. 

Unfortunately for all of us, the same VST can sound GREAT _as a recording_, but be quite bad _to play_. That Embertone Steinway seems to me to do both pretty well. That's unusual. 

Then again, _playing_ a VST (usually at home with the earphones) is NEVER as good as _playing_ even the worst REAL piano. (At least for me.) OK.... I admit .... there ARE exceptions: there are some pretty bad pianos out there.


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## keepitsimple (Apr 8, 2020)

Revisited Ivory II ACD today. Here's the video.


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## pavolbrezina (Apr 9, 2020)

PianoteQ 6 + Steinway B unbeatable right now. But SoundMagic Neopiano has most realistic samples I ever heard, sadly they did not managed the playability yet.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 9, 2020)

johngrant said:


> Then again, _playing_ a VST (usually at home with the earphones) is NEVER as good as _playing_ even the worst REAL piano. (At least for me.) OK.... I admit .... there ARE exceptions: there are some pretty bad pianos out there.



Could not disagree more. Playing my Dexibell Vivo S7 with this terrific piano sounds (and Rhodes, Wurlitzer, B3, etc,) or playing a really good piano sample library in Logic with it, is _way_ more pleasurable that the Wurlitzer spinets I practiced on for hours and hours in the practice rooms at the Boston Conservatory Of Music. And back in the day on gigs I played pianos with chipped keys that hurt my fingers, out of tune pianos, and pianos where the sustain pedal didn’t work.


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## Buz (Apr 9, 2020)

Yeah I think it depends what each of us is looking for vs what is accessible. 

Midi gives everyone what they're looking for with complete autonomy. Using the same thing for real is better (of course), but using real versions of something we don't like has little to no value.


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## creativeforge (May 30, 2020)

johngrant said:


> Haven't figured out how to get rid of that "Here more on SoundCloud" thingy. Anyhow, I guess ALL of the recent crop of piano VSTs are pretty good. A lot depends on what you're looking for.
> 
> Personally, I'm not interested in playability, particularly. I want a vst which, when recorded and tweaked, sounds like a modern, well-recorded Hamburg Steinway.
> 
> Not that German Steinways are necessarily great pianos..... it's just that this is what my ears are accustomed to hearing! Ears tend to accommodate to certain "sounds."



Hi John,

This used to bother me too! Here is what I found out.

When you see this:






Look for the X in the top right corner. If you click it, you'll get this:






Click the PLAY icon and it will revert to the first player's state:






Hope this helps! 

Andre


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## CatOrchestra (May 30, 2020)

IvanHuorMusic said:


> +1 for Noire


I have this but it's something I am thinking of selling. Switched to pianoteq instead


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## johngrant (May 30, 2020)

Where do you sell stuff (like Ivory American, assuming it can even be sold)?


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## johngrant (May 30, 2020)

Just downloaded Sam's Steinway? I assume. Cheap, btw. Pretty amazing little piano. Not sure I'm even using all the layers, because I'm not sure I properly installed the unzipped files. 

How many great little piano vsts like this one (which I've never heard of) are out there, I wonder?


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