# Atomic Big Band! - The Horns (updated June 8, 2022)



## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 7, 2022)

In addition to announcing our pre-order of our new clarinet library, we're so excited to announce our upcoming project, *Atomic Big Band! - The Horns. (edited name June 8, 2022)*

We're already deep into production on this and it's going to be amazing. The highlights are:
- Full big band
- Smart Delay and exact same sampling method as our other New Standard instruments
- An absolutely insane lead trumpet and all the other instruments you'd expect in a big band
- Totally new recordings and players than the previous libraries
- We also recorded tape samples for everything for some nice natural tape compression which sounds incredible.
- Some other stuff brewing too, but we'll leave it at that for now.

Wanted to put this here for any suggestions (we'll do our best to take them into account) and for any questions folks might have. We're going to release more demos along the way for this one so stand by to hear some stuff fairly soon. More info will be posted here: https://www.straightaheadsamples.com/atomic-big-band

Thanks all!


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## moon (Mar 7, 2022)

Exciting! Are these going to be all individually recorded instruments? What’s the full instrumentation?


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Mar 7, 2022)

I'm about to spit out my metaphorical soup


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 7, 2022)

I'm curious about the intentions for use. Not that they won't be useful! A good burst of power is great for big band jazz. But is it envisaged for them to be paired with other horns that have a softer or wider dynamic range?


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## BezO (Mar 7, 2022)

I'm interested!


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## dbudimir (Mar 7, 2022)

So great what you are putting together! Everything so far has been wonderful!!! Can't wait!!!!

Also if you add a dixieland/jazz tuba sometime, that would open up even more options!


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 7, 2022)

moon said:


> Exciting! Are these going to be all individually recorded instruments? What’s the full instrumentation?


Slightly in flux right this second (as is everything I'll say on this thread), but most likely it will be 13 .nkis. 4 trumpets, 3 trombones, bass trombone, 2 alto saxes, 2 tenor saxes and bari sax.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 7, 2022)

dbudimir said:


> So great what you are putting together! Everything so far has been wonderful!!! Can't wait!!!!
> 
> Also if you add a dixieland/jazz tuba sometime, that would open up even more options!


It's definitely on the list. We'll get there eventually.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 7, 2022)

I know this is for big band, but any chance of some high, crazy squeeling notes. Both longs and staccatos. Perhaps in an FX patch, but ideally key switchable and chromatic.

This may not be the library for that, but it is definitely an area I'm missing.


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## midiman (Mar 7, 2022)

You had me at "Smart Delay". I look forward to hearing the result. Love all the other 3 Smart delay instruments you released. Truly nex-gen.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm curious about the intentions for use. Not that they won't be useful! A good burst of power is great for big band jazz. But is it envisaged for them to be paired with other horns that have a softer or wider dynamic range?


Great question. It probably could be a very long answer, but it's basically a question of *time*. 

First, the amount of time it takes to actually perform the chart that is needed to achieve these results is quite substantial. And it's very difficult to play. Imagine etude-level-difficulty, all over the instrument in every key. So, we're bumping up against the reality of what a human can physically play in a week or less without blowing their chops out. Because once we get sessions that take more than a handful of days, the stuff you recorded at the beginning doesn't match the last stuff (trust me, we did a whole library that took too long and we had to throw out the whole thing).
Second, the editing time it takes is quite tremendous. We are a small company with only 2 people on the editing side. It took 10 months to make Birth of the Trumpet, and we're getting faster each time. But, frankly the math doesn't really work out with doing full versions of every instrument. Mutliply those by the number of instruments we're talking about...If we want to release something before like 5 years from now it needed to be a little leaner.

So, because of that, we thought long and hard about what would get us *85-90%* of the way there. And while *lead trumpet played at pianissimo* is certainly _a thing_, we really asked ourselves what it's gonna be used for *most of the time*. Full-volume to very loud playing. And that's where we landed. Something that's gonna check 85% of the boxes of what we'd use it for. 

It isn't just one dynamic, btw. "Fortissimo Horns" just sounds cool. It's basically "*full volume*" to "l*oud as #*$%*." 

We love quiet, vibey big band music and we'll definitely get there. But we thought this was the first next step. 

But I will say this, this library *will *do the thing that we've all yearned for. That has eluded everyone for so long. Big horn section lines that sound real. Play any line you want and it will just work.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I know this is for big band, but any chance of some high, crazy squeeling notes. Both longs and staccatos. Perhaps in an FX patch, but ideally key switchable and chromatic.
> 
> This may not be the library for that, but it is definitely an area I'm missing.


We recorded lead trumpet up to double G. That squealy enough?


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Mar 7, 2022)

A bold statement, but if it lives up, this could change everything.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 7, 2022)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> A bold statement, but if it lives up, this could change everything.



If they can get close, it would be amazing!


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 7, 2022)

I'm happy to take what you find is achievable. I understand you can't do everything but... well, you did ask for suggestions. So: how about ar least three different legato speeds. Including lightning, naturally!


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## moon (Mar 7, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> We recorded lead trumpet up to double G. That squealy enough?


Suggestion: scrap it and blow your entire budget and then some on hiring Wayne Bergeron


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## Gaffable (Mar 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I know this is for big band, but any chance of some high, crazy squeeling notes.
> 
> This may not be the library for that, but it is definitely an area I'm missing.





moon said:


> Suggestion: scrap it and blow your entire budget and then some on hiring Wayne Bergeron



While we wait for the release of Atomic Big Band, if you need a virtuosic high trumpet then you could consider Realitone's Screaming Trumpet, which features Wayne Bergeron.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 7, 2022)

Gaffable said:


> While we wait for the release of Atomic Big Band, if you need a virtuosic high trumpet then you could always consider Realitone's Screaming Trumpet, which features Wayne Bergeron.



Yes, great suggestion!


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## R.G. (Mar 7, 2022)

Looks terrific! Looking forward to it a great deal.

I assume this includes BB articulations; I didn't see it mentioned on your site unless I glossed over it.



StraightAheadSamples said:


> We recorded lead trumpet up to double G. That squealy enough?


Written or concert?

And how high for the other trumpets? ...and for the bones?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 7, 2022)

R.G. said:


> Looks terrific! Looking forward to it a great deal.
> 
> I assume this includes BB articulations; I didn't see it mentioned on your site unless I glossed over it.
> 
> ...


Concert G. Their A. And we got a couple Double C's for good measure (concert Bb's), sustains and shorts. Those are just for standalone notes. But you'll be able to play usable melodies up to the concert G.

Other instruments are a mixture of ranges, the goal is to make them all in the most usable range while getting the extremes on the top and bottom instruments.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 7, 2022)

R.G. said:


> I assume this includes BB articulations; I didn't see it mentioned on your site unless I glossed over it.


Oh an yes. All the standard articulations. Falls , scoops, forte-pianos, shakes/trills, glisses, doits, etc. All the same ones we've been doing on the other instruments recently plus a couple new ones.


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## TeamLeader (Mar 8, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Oh an yes. All the standard articulations. Falls , scoops, forte-pianos, shakes/trills, glisses, doits, etc. All the same ones we've been doing on the other instruments recently plus a couple new ones.


This looks great. Will there be any promo deals for those of us with SAJH?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 8, 2022)

TeamLeader said:


> This looks great. Will there be any promo deals for those of us with SAJH?


I don't think so. But there will be plenty of opportunity to get a good deal on it when it's released.


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## propianist (Mar 8, 2022)

I'd love to hear a 3-way comparison shootout (same MIDI file) between Glory Days, Chris Hein Horns Pro and this new Atomic Big Band.
Something like this....

Count Basie "Splanky"


Count Basie "Taps Miller"


Basically Blues - very wide trumpet shakes!


Quality trumpet shakes are the litmus test of a big band library IMHO.


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## JohannesR (Mar 8, 2022)

Awesome!! Really looking forward to this.

Here’s an idea to make the smart delay even smarter: In my humble opinion it would be much better if the smart delay worked in ms instead of bars. Most DAWs have track delay compensation, so the notes would LOOK correct as well. It gets messy when the midi is offset by 4 bars and the notes doesn’t line up on the charts/piano roll.


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## Robin (Mar 8, 2022)

JohannesR said:


> Awesome!! Really looking forward to this.
> 
> Here’s an idea to make the smart delay even smarter: In my humble opinion it would be much better if the smart delay worked in ms instead of bars. Most DAWs have track delay compensation, so the notes would LOOK correct as well. It gets messy when the midi is offset by 4 bars and the notes doesn’t line up on the charts/piano roll.


There is a limit in some DAWs of 1000ms which might not be enough for the smart delay to do its thing.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 8, 2022)

Robin said:


> There is a limit in some DAWs of 1000ms which might not be enough for the smart delay to do its thing.


Correct. Having less of a delay would not, in fact, make it smarter. It would make it less smart.


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 8, 2022)

moon said:


> Suggestion: scrap it and blow your entire budget and then some on hiring Wayne Bergeron


And then just do a lead trumpet library. One tip: don't use ribbon mics when recording his upper registry. I've heard him play live a few times, including going full blown Maynard and it was loud AF.


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 8, 2022)

What about mutes, same as with Birth of the trumpet and Eminent Trombone, including hats? For all brass players?

And more crucial: flugelhorn(s)?


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## doctoremmet (Mar 8, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> What about mutes, same as with Birth of the trumpet and Eminent Trombone, including hats? For all brass players?
> 
> And more crucial: flugelhorn(s)?


My inner Kenny Wheeler just awakened with goosebumps…


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## Martin S (Mar 8, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Slightly in flux right this second (as is everything I'll say on this thread), but most likely it will be 13 .nkis. 4 trumpets, 3 trombones, bass trombone, 2 alto saxes, 2 tenor saxes and bari sax.


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## JohannesR (Mar 8, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Correct. Having less of a delay would not, in fact, make it smarter. It would make it less smart.


Ok, how about you make it think faster? 😅


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## Trash Panda (Mar 8, 2022)

So will this be the ultimate library for doing something like "Tank!"?


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## moon (Mar 8, 2022)

JohannesR said:


> Ok, how about you make it think faster? 😅


I assume it's not about the time it takes, but rather looking far enough ahead that it makes the best decisions.


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## Henu (Mar 8, 2022)

I really hope this one has attacks done aggressive enough!!!! *puppyeyes*


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## Zanshin (Mar 8, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> So will this be the ultimate library for doing something like "Tank!"?



Would love a dedicated hard bop library


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## Marcus Millfield (Mar 8, 2022)

Would be cool to go from Basie to Kenton and back with the same set of libraries. Call me excited.


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## Rudianos (Mar 8, 2022)

How is the Vibrato control. Can it recreate that thick string like vibrato of the 30s and 40s?


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## gwretling (Mar 8, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> In addition to announcing our pre-order of our new clarinet library, we're so excited to announce our upcoming project, *Atomic Big Band! - Fortissimo Horns. *


Great! 
Will there be common big band alternating woodwinds - soprano sax, flute, clarinet and alt. brass - flugelhorns?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 8, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> What about mutes, same as with Birth of the trumpet and Eminent Trombone, including hats? For all brass players?
> 
> And more crucial: flugelhorn(s)?


Yes all the mutes will be available. Flugelhorn is definitely on the short list. Looking like there'll be a "Doubles" library. Don't quote me. But flugel, flute, bass clarinet, tuba. Something along those lines.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 8, 2022)

moon said:


> I assume it's not about the time it takes, but rather looking far enough ahead that it makes the best decisions.


Correct.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 8, 2022)

Henu said:


> I really hope this one has attacks done aggressive enough!!!! *puppyeyes*


That has been one of the main goals. We are nailing it. Promise.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 8, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> How is the Vibrato control. Can it recreate that thick string like vibrato of the 30s and 40s?


Yes.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Mar 8, 2022)

gwretling said:


> Great!
> Will there be common big band alternating woodwinds - soprano sax, flute, clarinet and alt. brass - flugelhorns?


A separate library, but definitely on the list. Clarinet is on pre-order now. Just announced yesterday.


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## Mike T (Mar 10, 2022)

This sounds awesome (and a lot of work)!
A request regarding the smart delay -
this applies to all the libraries (future update)?
Could you allow the delay to be 4, 5, 6 or 7 beats for those of us who compose via notation software (Sibelius, for me)?
Only having 4 beats makes editing in time sigs other than 4/4 much more awkward .
Obviously I have no idea how many of your users would want/make use of this 
Looking forward to these horns!!


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## axb312 (Mar 10, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples Please make the instruments cover the full dynamic range, ie. the range covered by your current "new standard series" (which lacks the upper dynamics) and the upper dynamics, so we avoid paying for the same instrument twice?


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## floydian05 (Mar 16, 2022)

I do a good bit of big band music so if you can deliver what you are promising I will be VERY excited! Since you asked for suggestions if you are building presets I think it would be a good idea to include a few funk section presets - loud horns should fit well with them and would be a useful addition to big band sections. Looking forward to seeing this library in action!


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## EanS (Jun 6, 2022)

A bump here while I was checking the Hornheads https://www.hornheads.com/ 

All my suggestions are regarding them 🥰 sample work demos are pretty explanatory, so if you could take some time to check dem phrases and attack, voila. Any demo there has that fierce and snappy touch, which is life itself. No chalala softy mellow thang. 

Hope you have news soon. 🙌


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## Rudianos (Jun 6, 2022)

I am really hoping for presets that the thick lush sounds of the 1930s. Not so loud - but with that warm tone that brings you back to that era. And that string like 16th note vibrato that people do not see to do anymore. Moonlight Serenade Glenn Miller... a point of reference.


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## Martin S (Jun 7, 2022)

I want this, and this .. and this


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## R.G. (Jun 7, 2022)

My hopes are as follows...


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 8, 2022)

Wow, must've been something in the air. Fun to see this thread get organically revived while we were preparing to release the first look demo and announce the pre-order.



This demo features the new Atomic Trumpets and Atomic Saxes. The trombones aren't quite far enough in developement to make an appearance yet, so we threw a couple Eminent Trombones in there to fill out the low end, but it's missing that low bite that the Atomic Trombones will have. But here are a great first look at the 4 trumpets (Atomic Lead Trumpet, Atomic Trumpet 2, Atomic Trumpet 3, Atomic Trumpet 4) and the 5 sax patches (Atomic Lead Alto, Atomic Alto 2, Atomic Tenor 1, Atomic Tenor 2, Atomic Bari).

Also, we're making the pre-order available starting today for those that want to get the best price. Regular price will be $529, the pre-order price will be $429. Pre-order will end firmly on July 14th at noon (EST). (We made a little snafu with the Clarinette pre-order cutoff, by moving the date, and it caused much confusion, so we won't make that mistake again). The library will be available for download right around that date (depending on Native Instruments encoding time, but we'll keep everyone in the loop on that so there's no surprises).

Atomic Big Band Pre-Order

Throw out any questions and I'll be happy to answer them. We're nearing the end of development here, so a lot of things have come into focus in the last month or so. This library is truly incredible, and we really can't believe what's possible so far with these instruments. Being able to create using these sounds is very exciting for us and this demo only just scratches the surface of what these instruments are capable of.


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## mohsohsenshi (Jun 8, 2022)

This! The most authentic Big Band ensemble sample I've heard by far!

The price is not cheap but worth for its complete sections and individual instruments.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 8, 2022)

Congratulations on a what looks set to be another great and extremely useful library. The regular price is competitive and hopefully should see a good return for all of your hard work. I hope so.

I don't like the idea of preorders; but if you need to pull in some return early to keep things running, that's an understandable method.

Good luck with it all, and I hope everything goes well in a timely and mostly calm way!


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## Zanshin (Jun 8, 2022)

I wish it was a Intro pricing rather than Pre-Order, so we could perhaps have some user reviews given the high price of the library. Is there a return policy in place?

The demo sounds great


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jun 8, 2022)

I'm more excited than Paul Thomson.


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## BezO (Jun 8, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> ...Throw out any questions and I'll be happy to answer them. We're nearing the end of development here, so a lot of things have come into focus in the last month or so. This library is truly incredible, and we really can't believe what's possible so far with these instruments. Being able to create using these sounds is very exciting for us and this demo only just scratches the surface of what these instruments are capable of.


I can use my imagination, but can you confirm the trombone lineup?

I guess because I never tried to "heart" any items before, but I just created an account despite already having 3 of your products. Should I be able to see my previous purchases somewhere? And is there no loyalty discount? I thought I remembered taking advantage of one with my last purchase or 2.

Any chance a flute is on the horizon?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 8, 2022)

BezO said:


> I can use my imagination, but can you confirm the trombone lineup?
> 
> I guess because I never tried to "heart" any items before, but I just created an account despite already having 3 of your products. Should I be able to see my previous purchases somewhere? And is there no loyalty discount? I thought I remembered taking advantage of one with my last purchase or 2.
> 
> Any chance a flute is on the horizon?


There will be 4 trombone patches: Atomic Lead Trombone, Atomic Trombone 2, Atomic Trombone 3, and Atomic Bass Trombone.

As far as loyalty discounts, these are totally separate instruments, with totally new recordings. Birth of the Trumpet, Tenor Colossus and Eminent Trombone were always seen, by us, as a true bundle, but we had to release them separately for financial reasons, so that is why there was upgrade prices to the full bundle with those products.

Flute is indeed on the very near horizon. One of a couple at the top of the list once this is done and released.


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## Rudianos (Jun 8, 2022)

That's a nice fat tone. Very nice demo. I might have to fall of the wagon on this one!


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## Vlzmusic (Jun 8, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> There will be 4 trombone patches: Atomic Lead Trombone, Atomic Trombone 2, Atomic Trombone 3, and Atomic Bass Trombone.
> 
> As far as loyalty discounts, these are totally separate instruments, with totally new recordings. Birth of the Trumpet, Tenor Colossus and Eminent Trombone were always seen, by us, as a true bundle, but we had to release them separately for financial reasons, so that is why there was upgrade prices to the full bundle with those products.
> 
> Flute is indeed on the very near horizon. One of a couple at the top of the list once this is done and released.


Sorry if it was explained someplace else, but is there a big gap between the previous instruments, and these ones in terms of sample material, besides the dynamics of course?


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## Brasart (Jun 8, 2022)

It sounds fantastic guys, can't wait to see more!


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## ag75 (Jun 8, 2022)

Not possible. 


ChrisSiuMusic said:


> I'm more excited than Paul Thomson.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 8, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> That's a nice fat tone. Very nice demo. I might have to fall of the wagon on this one!


I can't, in good conscience, tell you not to!


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## EanS (Jun 8, 2022)

Uhhh, I had the Ppppfffffff sense. 🤣 bumped right on time.


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## gwretling (Jun 8, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Fun to see this thread get organically revived while we were preparing to release the first look demo and announce the pre-order.


Impressive! 
Will there be any aditional soprano sax and flugel horn after the upcoming big band release?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 8, 2022)

gwretling said:


> Impressive!
> Will there be any aditional soprano sax and flugel horn after the upcoming big band release?


Our goal is to get through them all. And we're ramping up production to be able to do more instruments, more quickly. So, all that to say...yes.


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## Zanshin (Jun 8, 2022)

Are the lead instruments more deeply sampled than the non-leads? I guess what I am asking is are the leads equivalent to the existing New Standard instruments and the non-leads really just for use in context of an ensemble?


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## Robin (Jun 8, 2022)

Love the performance, sounds really great!

@StraightAheadSamples Can you share some insight whether there are different mic positions covered and if yes which and also what kind of room you recorded in?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 8, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> Sorry if it was explained someplace else, but is there a big gap between the previous instruments, and these ones in terms of sample material, besides the dynamics of course?


The approach and sampling method is the same (although it evolves _slightly_ each time as we get better and better at it). The approach musically was focused on very different things. Different types of players with different types of sound. Essentially, the simple explanation is that it will *function* the same as previous libraries, except there's 13 instruments and they're playing full tilt. But the nuance of the performances are quite different, even just beyond the dynamic. As an example, how we approach the legato performance was different on the very highest dynamic, as we found that in order to get that true fortissimo, wide-open horn sound, they had to let go a bit of the legato-ness of the playing. Doesn't change anything for the end user as far as its use, just changes the way it sounds. So, all that to say, they're very different libraries but the user will interact with them in exactly the same manner.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 8, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Are the lead instruments more deeply sampled than the non-leads? I guess what I am asking is are the leads equivalent to the existing New Standard instruments and the non-leads really just for use in context of an ensemble?


Correct, just in range though. The sampling method is identical, but the range is limited, but still very useful and what you would expect, say from a 2nd trumpet. But we didn't go up to double-C on the second trumpet, for example. 

You probably wouldn't use the 3rd trombone, for example, as a solo instrument. Though you certainly could, it isn't really any different, performance-wise than the lead. Just a smaller range. It would sound just as realistic and dynamic as the lead, but you'd be limited in note choice.


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## osterdamus (Jun 8, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Throw out any questions and I'll be happy to answer them.


Now that you're breaking into the $500+ price range would you consider adopting a license transfer scheme? 

There's a lot of additional love from the community for developers that have such policies, you know...


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 8, 2022)

osterdamus said:


> Now that you're breaking into the $500+ price range would you consider adopting a license transfer scheme?
> 
> There's a lot of additional love from the community for developers that have such policies, you know...


I'll say tentatively, yes. They have to be done manually, one at a time, so as long as it doesn't get out of control, we should be able to accomodate these requests as they come.


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## EanS (Jun 8, 2022)

Will you consider just the instruments or will be there any multis with some instrument/ensemble combinations?

Or maybe snapshots like the Clarinette has will be there, per instrument and will they combine with others?

It would be cool to have some different size sections with mic positions and immediate no phasing issues and etc... I know it's a lot asking since we are the ones supposed to do that, but also I thinkpresets made by developers already soaked with their libraries porvides a better understanding of all capabilities.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 8, 2022)

EanS said:


> Will you consider just the instruments or will be there any multis with some instrument/ensemble combinations?
> 
> Or maybe snapshots like the Clarinette has will be there, per instrument and will they combine with others?
> 
> It would be cool to have some different size sections with mic positions and immediate no phasing issues and etc... I know it's a lot asking since we are the ones supposed to do that, but also I thinkpresets made by developers already soaked with their libraries porvides a better understanding of all capabilities.


Yes there will be multis included with all the settings, volume, panning pre-setup to be balanced and usable with a click. And there'll be snapshots as well, with a few different vibes. But getting the balance right between the instruments is quite important to get _*that*_ _*sound*_. So, we felt like it was super integral to have that ready to go for the end user. We're spending a lot of time dialing in those details so the end user won't have to.


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## axb312 (Jun 8, 2022)

So are the lower dynamics included here as well or is there another 500 dollar library for that?


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## Martin S (Jun 8, 2022)

Man, this sounds fantastic ! - What can we expect size wise (GB’s) ?


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## EanS (Jun 8, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Yes there will be multis included with all the settings, volume, panning pre-setup to be balanced and usable with a click. And there'll be snapshots as well, with a few different vibes. But getting the balance right between the instruments is quite important to get _*that*_ _*sound*_. So, we felt like it was super integral to have that ready to go for the end user. We're spending a lot of time dialing in those details so the end user won't have to.


I'm so happy and proud that after Clarinette En Rose I promised myself no to get another library until I see the release of this one.

I have remained strong, focused, and here I am, I am Spartacus!!

(In silence, more forum members read this, stand up and yell I AM SPARTACUS!!!!. Audience starts to cry...)


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 8, 2022)

EanS said:


> I'm so happy and proud that after Clarinette En Rose I promised myself no to get another library until I see the release of this one.
> 
> I have remained strong, focused, and here I am, I am Spartacus!!
> 
> (In silence, more forum members read this, stand up and yell I AM SPARTACUS!!!!. Audience strats to cry...)


My strat is crying.


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## EanS (Jun 8, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> My strat is crying.


You were faster than my editing. I type in English Spansih and sometimes Portuguese hence spell checker just gave up. Of course I have 3 Strats too 🤣 They're waiting for the horn section.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 8, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> My strat is crying.


Think about how lonely your strat will be tonight in the dark corners of the pawnshop. But hey, $429 WAS a decent price wasn’t it


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 8, 2022)

axb312 said:


> So are the lower dynamics included here as well or is there another 500 dollar library for that?



The lower dynamics are not included here for many reasons. Most of which being the actual practicality of recording it. The way we sample takes a very long time and is very difficult to perform (like etude-level difficulty all over their horn, for several days). The fact that these players are playing fortissimo, _absolutely full tilt_, for many days, made the possibility of getting all the subtlies of the quieter dynamics in subsequent days of recording an impossibility. 

Obviously it would be nice to have a library that did _everything_. But once we realized that wasn't practical, we decided to focus on what maybe 85% of composers would use these kind of samples for, the loud stuff. Also, it was a common comment about the previous libraries that they didn't really get to that loud sound, so we thought this was a nice, usable difference.

Also, there's computer resources to consider as our previous New Standard instruments are quite hefty, so imaging 13 of those running simultaneously seemed like it _might_ pose problems for _some_ users, so limiting the dynamic range to the most commonly used seemed advantageous in that regard.

And, i'll just say as an aside, imho, the breadth of timbres and performance styles the happen in jazz are even _more_ varied than in orchestral/film music, yet no one seems super surprised or chuffed that there are endless string libraries, for example, that focus on this particular vibe or that particular sound. "Jazz" (for lack of a better word) is incredibly nuanced and heterogenous, the idea we could fit it all into one library just isn't realistic.


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## EanS (Jun 8, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Think about how lonely your strat will be tonight in the dark corners of the pawnshop. But hey, $429 WAS a decent price wasn’t it


Cheaper than a Fender Mex SSS 🥰


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 8, 2022)

Martin S said:


> Man, this sounds fantastic ! - What can we expect size wise (GB’s) ?


Not exactly sure quite yet, looking like somewhere between 20-25GB+.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 8, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Think about how lonely your strat will be tonight in the dark corners of the pawnshop. But hey, $429 WAS a decent price wasn’t it


Now, _that_ is the saddest song in the world!


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## axb312 (Jun 8, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> The lower dynamics are not included here for many reasons. Most of which being the actual practicality of recording it. The way we sample takes a very long time and is very difficult to perform (like etude-level difficulty all over their horn, for several days). The fact that these players are playing fortissimo, _absolutely full tilt_, for many days, made the possibility of getting all the subtlies of the quieter dynamics in subsequent days of recording an impossibility.
> 
> Obviously it would be nice to have a library that did _everything_. But once we realized that wasn't practical, we decided to focus on what maybe 85% of composers would use these kind of samples for, the loud stuff. Also, it was a common comment about the previous libraries that they didn't really get to that loud sound, so we thought this was a nice, usable difference.
> 
> ...


Yea, imagine having to buy a different string library for different dynamics....Or are there no lower dynamics in Big Band music?


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 8, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Yea, imagine having to buy a different string library for different dynamics....Or are there no lower dynamics in Big Band music?


It's a matter of practicalities; reality gets in the way.

In this case, there is a limitation on dynamic range (as there often is with sample libraries - see all the string libraries without fff, or Angry Brass).

There are also always limitations in articulations, divisi, and all sorts of other ways.

Big band music certainly can be softer, but it is most notable for it's powerful, up tempo playing. Which also happens to be the least well served aspect in other available horn libraries.

Or, at least, that's how it appears to me.


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## Cheezus (Jun 8, 2022)

Limiting to specific use case is the right decision. If this thing really does sound like the teaser, it’s worth the money.


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## Martin S (Jun 8, 2022)

For quieter passages and solo’s I think the current (and future) New Standard instruments would be able to cover quite a lot of ground, even in a big band context, while Atomic Big Band would carry the louder parts beautifully. They’d complement each other very nicely for the vast majority of Big Band compositions.


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## R.G. (Jun 8, 2022)

Thanks for the preview. The saxes and trumpets seem to be voicing well and not over-thickening. The legato swing works well in style from what I hear so far. Good soli potential. The trumpet stinger at 00:24 is spot-on, and the trumpet line from 00:29 to 00:33 is very encouraging.

Limiting dynamic levels for instruments like these with such huge dynamic ranges is more than understandable from a practical point of view. These louder dynamics should have me covered prolly _at least_ 90% of the time. After all, the vast majority of BB arrangements, and nearly all pop-oriented sweetening, is on the loud side, and largely has to be given the typical tessituras.

Looking forward to hearing a Peel-the-paint shout chorus.

One thing I'm not jazzed about is the close sound. It's small for my purposes. Are there mic options?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 8, 2022)

R.G. said:


> Thanks for the preview. The saxes and trumpets seem to be voicing well and not over-thickening. The legato swing works well in style from what I hear so far. Good soli potential. The trumpet stinger at 00:24 is spot-on, and the trumpet line from 00:29 to 00:33 is very encouraging.
> 
> Limiting dynamic levels for instruments like these with such huge dynamic ranges is more than understandable from a practical point of view. These louder dynamics should have me covered prolly _at least_ 90% of the time. After all, the vast majority of BB arrangements, and nearly all pop-oriented sweetening, is on the loud side, and largely has to be given the typical tessituras.


Yes.


R.G. said:


> Looking forward to hearing a Peel-the-paint shout chorus.


Yes, indeed. We've got one cooking.


R.G. said:


> One thing I'm not jazzed about is the close sound. It's small for my purposes. Are there mic options?


There's a wide open room mic on each instrument that's gorgeous. Really projects the ensemble sound. There's a little mixed in on this demo but not too much. We'll definitely show some demos that lean more on the room, it really makes the loudness feel louder when those room mics are more present, so we'll post some stuff highlghting that for sure.


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## epianist (Jun 8, 2022)

Martin S said:


> For quieter passages and solo’s I think the current (and future) New Standard instruments would be able to cover quite a lot of ground, even in a big band context, while Atomic Big Band would carry the louder parts beautifully. They’d complement each other very nicely for the vast majority of Big Band compositions.


Which I guess you can already hear in the 1st demo with eminent tb's on the lower end (not necessarily much quieter here). So maybe it would be a good idea for them to also provide demos with a mix of their standard instruments together with ABB at least in a p/mf passage to get that combination impression...


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## axb312 (Jun 8, 2022)

Martin S said:


> For quieter passages and solo’s I think the current (and future) New Standard instruments would be able to cover quite a lot of ground, even in a big band context, while Atomic Big Band would carry the louder parts beautifully. They’d complement each other very nicely for the vast majority of Big Band compositions.


Yes, that is a very expensive option.


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## Martin S (Jun 8, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Yes, that is a very expensive option.


I’m sorry, but I can’t help it : This seems to me to be your standard reply to ANY library, regardless of the pricing..


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## floydian05 (Jun 8, 2022)

I'm thrilled to see this is nearly complete and to hear the first demo! Excited to see what the section multis are. Would love to see options for funk and Salsa in addition to big band. 

Can't wait for the release!


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## gwretling (Jun 8, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Wow, must've been something in the air. Fun to see this thread get organically revived while we were preparing to release the first look demo and announce the pre-order.


StraightAheadSamples, will there be some kind of notation mode to use the full potential of ABB even outside a DAW - in Sibelius (not just VST import in Sib and a lot of "~"-commands for dynamics etc.) ?


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## axb312 (Jun 8, 2022)

Martin S said:


> I’m sorry, but I can’t help it : This seems to me to be your standard reply to ANY library, regardless of the pricing..


Incorrect. Pacific .Awesome. CSS, CSW, CSB. Awesome. Spitfire on sale. Awesome. It would also be great if you didn't attack me. Keep the dialog about the product. 

Most other devs are inflated (in terms of price) imo. This lib irks me more in terms of incompleteness.


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## propianist (Jun 9, 2022)

The play cursor line in the "Sneak Peek" demo video appears to be leading ahead by more than one second in front of the audio.
Anyone else notice this?!
Is this because...

1. Video / audio are just out of sync? (it's only a quick demo so never mind)

2. ASIO buffer was really, really long(!) so audio was very delayed, and that's just how it was captured?

3. Is it something to do with the "Smart Delay" feature of these VST, and that's how DAW playback
looks normally whenever "Smart Delay" processing is active, audio lags behind the play cursor and appears out of sync?


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## Vlzmusic (Jun 9, 2022)

propianist said:


> The play cursor line in the "Sneak Peek" demo video appears to be leading ahead by more than one second in front of the audio.
> Anyone else notice this?!
> Is this because...
> 
> ...


If your plugin awaits additional time, to be able to process things and play the ready audio - of course its gonna lag behind, thats why developer asks to shift these specific parts backwards.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 9, 2022)

propianist said:


> The play cursor line in the "Sneak Peek" demo video appears to be leading ahead by more than one second in front of the audio.
> Anyone else notice this?!
> Is this because...
> 
> ...


Yes, Vlzmusic is correct. Smart Delay waits one bar to play the audio. So you can see the cursor is one bar behind the midi. This is so it has time to calculate all kinds of things about the performance and choose the correct samples from a massive (thousands of samples) matrix of options.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 9, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Yes, Vlzmusic is correct. Smart Delay waits one bar to play the audio. So you can see the cursor is one bar behind the midi. This is so it has time to calculate all kinds of things about the performance and choose the correct samples from a massive (thousands of samples) matrix of options.


And having used Smart Delay, I am extremely happy with what it can do.


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## osterdamus (Jun 9, 2022)

Speculating out loud here, but if one wanted to use the smart delay _and_ see and edit the midi in the correct place in time in the project without having to move it for smart delay, couldn't one just have the original midi on an empty track and then a reference copy placed on the smart delay instrument, shifted one bar earlier in time? Only requirement would be to start the playing at least that one bar earlier…

I mean, not saying that this will be to everyone’s taste, but it should be possible? Or am I missing something?


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## epianist (Jun 9, 2022)

> osterdamus said:
> 
> 
> > Speculating out loud here, but if one wanted to use the smart delay _and_ see and edit the midi in the correct place in time in the project without having to move it for smart delay, couldn't one just have the original midi on an empty track and then a reference copy placed on the smart delay instrument, shifted one bar earlier in time? Only requirement would be to start the playing at least that one bar earlier…
> ...


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## osterdamus (Jun 9, 2022)

I didn’t consider that in the above because I don’t think the DAW I use (Logic) allows for that much of a track delay, but a little uncertain now, I’ll check once I have a session open.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 9, 2022)

osterdamus said:


> Speculating out loud here, but if one wanted to use the smart delay _and_ see and edit the midi in the correct place in time in the project without having to move it for smart delay, couldn't one just have the original midi on an empty track and then a reference copy placed on the smart delay instrument, shifted one bar earlier in time? Only requirement would be to start the playing at least that one bar earlier…
> 
> I mean, not saying that this will be to everyone’s taste, but it should be possible? Or am I missing something?


That would work. Of course, you could also wait until you've finished with all of the editing to switch to Smart Delay, and so not move the midi forward a bar until then. That has the downside of not hearing what the performance will sound like until it is finished; so your suggestion is probably better!


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## osterdamus (Jun 9, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That would work. Of course, you could also wait until you've finished with all of the editing to switch to Smart Delay, and so not move the midi forward a bar until then. That has the downside of not hearing what the performance will sound like until it is finished; so your suggestion is probably better!


Come to think of it, I guess it’ll work ok when editing and looking at the midi with smart delay on, but in the case of performing live, there might not be any other solution than record, move and turn smart delay on.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 10, 2022)

Robin said:


> Love the performance, sounds really great!
> 
> @StraightAheadSamples Can you share some insight whether there are different mic positions covered and if yes which and also what kind of room you recorded in?


Ah, sorry I missed this question earlier Robin. Yes there is a close and a room, as well as additional close mic that went to tape and back (which sounds killer, especially when the whole sections are loaded). Recorded in a newer studio with about a 1,300 sq foot live room. We heard a big band record recorded there that sounded incredible. It's really flattering on horns specifically. We're finding that the patches sound killer with *only* the rooms mics loaded (demo coming shortly featuring that sound). There's also our "bleed" mic convolution that we've had on all the previous New Standard instruments, that we just adore over here, really helps set things in a space when panned and used sparingly.


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## Grymt (Jun 10, 2022)

I'm going to pass on this one. I think it's too much money for a sound that seems a bit narrow in usability for me. I do love the other New Standards though, especially Birth of a Trumpet and Collosus.


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## Vlzmusic (Jun 10, 2022)

Grymt said:


> I'm going to pass on this one. I think it's too much money for a sound that seems a bit narrow in usability for me. I do love the other New Standards though, especially Birth of a Trumpet and Collosus.


I am still waiting for other demos too, but usability seems far from narrow to me. Think of all the various ensembles, duos, trios, quartets and so on, you could potentially draw from Atomic into your various projects - just having those agile 3-4 trumpets to sweeten up your pop tracks could perfectly stand as its own product.


On a different note, saxes are the ones that keep me a bit uncertain, whether they can achieve a lush sax chorus sound playing together. Hopefully we soon hear some more Atomic saxes __


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## David Kudell (Jun 10, 2022)

Sounds incredible. Congrats on this achievement!


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## osterdamus (Jun 11, 2022)

Vlzmusic said:


> pop tracks


Was thinking a bit about this as well, if this could be used for more Latin brass backing, like the agile hits in Gloria Estefan’s Conga! ?


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## Vlzmusic (Jun 11, 2022)

osterdamus said:


> Was thinking a bit about this as well, if this could be used for more Latin brass backing, like the agile hits in Gloria Estefan’s Conga! ?


Even if not perfect, it would probably be the best tool for the job in current sampling.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 11, 2022)

osterdamus said:


> Was thinking a bit about this as well, if this could be used for more Latin brass backing, like the agile hits in Gloria Estefan’s Conga! ?


Have you tried 8Dio's The Bible of Salsa (or any of its contents available as separate instruments)? There are a number of Latin sample packs, too.

While there are other good jazz/big band libraries, I suspect that as the demos come out, we're going to hear that this is the best for a high energy attack.


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## EanS (Jun 11, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Have you tried 8Dio's The Bible of Salsa (or any of its contents available as separate instruments)? There are a number of Latin sample packs, too.


Hmm, I don't consider 8dio in the fierce, grimy, stabbing, hitting with a bat playing area. Everything I have and heard is in symbiose, starting from Troels voice, everything is very chalala, porom pom pom, shimmy shimmy, silky smooth.

In essence (not as a rule) I think that Funk and Latin (Jazz Fusion and some in between like Average White Band and Snarky Puppy) horns sections, even the Mariachi ones, every player is near sweating
bullets while playing, none is sitting, everyone is shaking their booties, like...



And this is the more tidy version for the audiences.


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## EanS (Jun 11, 2022)

Yo @StraightAheadSamples question if you may, ppplease?
Just like the Clarinette en Rose, regarding the button HARD VEL = ____________

a) Have you considered it here?
b) How many ? just one or maybe two (or three)? (which ones could be? bend? shake?)
c) Able to assign midi CC to each button?
d) On each instrument? (I guess the solos mostly, but for sections just one)
e) Would they be the same on each instrument (well discriminating horns from reeds) ?

Uhhh... I get this creative when get baked, ma bad  have a great weekend.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 11, 2022)

osterdamus said:


> Was thinking a bit about this as well, if this could be used for more Latin brass backing, like the agile hits in Gloria Estefan’s Conga! ?


In our early tests, we think definitely yes. Demos will be coming showing that style for sure.


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## Trash Panda (Jun 11, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples Will it do Tank?


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## osterdamus (Jun 11, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Have you tried 8Dio's The Bible of Salsa (or any of its contents available as separate instruments)? There are a number of Latin sample packs, too.
> 
> While there are other good jazz/big band libraries, I suspect that as the demos come out, we're going to hear that this is the best for a high energy attack.


Do you have this lib?

Looking into it, it does look great, but I been a little burnt by the raving praise of their strings, after which I tried to do all my homework by watching walkthroughs, only to find out that the quality is a bit uneven (stereo field issues). Since then I’ve decided that I’ll aim to buy only best quality libs that offer return and / or resell.


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## osterdamus (Jun 11, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> In our early tests, we think definitely yes. Demos will be coming showing that style for sure.


Awesome, looking forward to hearing them.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 12, 2022)

osterdamus said:


> Do you have this lib?
> 
> Looking into it, it does look great, but I been a little burnt by the raving praise of their strings, after which I tried to do all my homework by watching walkthroughs, only to find out that the quality is a bit uneven (stereo field issues). Since then I’ve decided that I’ll aim to buy only best quality libs that offer return and / or resell.


Unfortunately no; it's just the only comprehensive library I've seen targeted towards Latin music. I've watched a lot of the demos, and there are definitely some nice sounds in it. As I think @EanS was indicating, it may be a little tame.

I completely agree about going for quality. I now buy much fewer libraries just because they are aiming at something I want to do. I try - try! - to make sure they hit their target too!


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## R.G. (Jun 12, 2022)

EanS said:


>



Trumpets at 00:44 should remain TACET on such lines from now on and give it to to a section that can play it. Talk about screwing the pooch.


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## chlady (Jun 12, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> And having used Smart Delay, I am extremely happy with what it can do.


yes I agree the trumpet, sax and clarinet work pretty well with the smart delay and can get good results.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 13, 2022)

R.G. said:


> Trumpets at 00:44 should remain TACET on such lines from now on and give it to to a section that can play it. Talk about screwing the pooch.


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## Jonhugo (Jun 15, 2022)

How exactly does the "pay in 4 payments" option work? When I thought I was selecting that, it looked like it was still charging the full price up front


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 16, 2022)

Jonhugo said:


> How exactly does the "pay in 4 payments" option work? When I thought I was selecting that, it looked like it was still charging the full price up front


I'm not entirely sure. According to our checkout service backend, it should work just like it says. If you want to pm me or email us we can take a look in more detail.


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## Jonhugo (Jun 17, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> I'm not entirely sure. According to our checkout service backend, it should work just like it says. If you want to pm me or email us we can take a look in more detail.


sent you a pm


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## osterdamus (Jun 17, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples follow-up question: will scoops and falls be included in Atomic Big Band?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 17, 2022)

osterdamus said:


> @StraightAheadSamples follow-up question: will scoops and falls be included in Atomic Big Band?


Oh my, yes. Boatloads of them, different lengths, different intensities. Our smart delay pulls from all kinds of different falls and scoops. Even ones that come from the middle of phrases. So you can even add some variations to 'inner' notes of a phrase. Extreme ones and more subtle ones. They are actually a large part of creating realistic performances in this style (as well as pop/funk/etc). As a reference, *for any one pitch*, there are somewhere around *40-50 different falls* that might get triggered, depending on different factors in the performance/phrase. And that number does *not *including different dynamics. And there are a similar number for scoops.


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## Cheezus (Jun 17, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Oh my, yes. Boatloads of them, different lengths, different intensities. Our smart delay pulls from all kinds of different falls and scoops. Even ones that come from the middle of phrases. So you can even add some variations to 'inner' notes of a phrase. Extreme ones and more subtle ones. They are actually a large part of creating realistic performances in this style (as well as pop/funk/etc). As a reference, *for any one pitch*, there are somewhere around *40-50 different falls* that might get triggered, depending on different factors in the performance/phrase. And that number does *not *including different dynamics. And there are a similar number for scoops.


For maximum realism I really feel this is the way to do it.


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Jun 21, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> They are actually a large part of creating realistic performances in this style (as well as pop/funk/etc).


Will you be doing any demos in other styles? I’d like to get an idea of how versatile the library is, particularly in styles like funk and soul.


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## philthevoid (Jun 23, 2022)

I am not (yet) an owner of any of Straight Ahead Samples libraries but I'm looking into it.
I had one question though.
Varying the tempo slightly and regularly during a whole piece can add a bit more of a human feeling to the performance. Would the smart delay still work correctly in that scenario? Or would that kind of break the timings of the notes because the smart delay is one measure and each measure would be slightly different in length?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 23, 2022)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> Will you be doing any demos in other styles? I’d like to get an idea of how versatile the library is, particularly in styles like funk and soul.


Definitely. Lots more demos in the works well before the presale ends. Where just putting the finishing touches on it now so a bunch more demos coming very soon. All kinds of styles. We've got some other jazz examples, as well as latin, funk, etc.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 23, 2022)

philthevoid said:


> I am not (yet) an owner of any of Straight Ahead Samples libraries but I'm looking into it.
> I had one question though.
> Varying the tempo slightly and regularly during a whole piece can add a bit more of a human feeling to the performance. Would the smart delay still work correctly in that scenario? Or would that kind of break the timings of the notes because the smart delay is one measure and each measure would be slightly different in length?


With small and even moderate tempo changes, Smart Delay woks fine and as expected. With some extreme ones, it can have a little trouble in the first bar. The workaround is just to bounce it at the first tempo and then add the tempo change. 

But in many of our demos, we'll add subtle tempo changes throughout, like you mentioned for the human feeling, and Smart Delay handles it fine.


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 23, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> With small and even moderate tempo changes, Smart Delay woks fine and as expected. With some extreme ones, it can have a little trouble in the first bar. The workaround is just to bounce it at the first tempo and then add the tempo change.
> 
> But in many of our demos, we'll add subtle tempo changes throughout, like you mentioned for the human feeling, and Smart Delay handles it fine.


Generally, I’d bounce if that became an issue. But couldn’t you also move the midi to a separate instance? Especially if there was a very major change in the tempo track. Then each instance would only be calculating samples for one tempo setting.

I haven’t encountered any issues with just having little bits played faster or slower than the rest; and there’s plenty of that in most jazz solos.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jun 23, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Generally, I’d bounce if that became an issue. But couldn’t you also move the midi to a separate instance? Especially if there was a very major change in the tempo track. Then each instance would only be calculating samples for one tempo setting.
> 
> I haven’t encountered any issues with just having little bits played faster or slower than the rest; and there’s plenty of that in most jazz solos.


Actually no. The instruments check the current tempo on every note it plays, so it isn't per instance. So it's constantly checking the tempo.


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## sumskilz (Jul 2, 2022)

Their newly posted demo:



I'm liking it so far... as expected.


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## Rudianos (Jul 2, 2022)

Wow that demo is delicious. Love that low reed sound.


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## midiman (Jul 2, 2022)

Is there a way to deal with the Smart Delay in Cubase, without having to drag the midi one bar before, but instead using the Cubase track inspector? I am not aware of it. I think cubase only allows to set a milliseconds value in the track delay. Anyone know otherwise?
It would be great to have a way to toggle between the two modes without having to drag Midi parts everytime an edit needs to be done.
Smart delay rules, because it sounds amazing, but would love to know ways to make it more workflow friendly.
Not to mention that it would be really cool that one can visually hear what is on the midi track even when the smart delay is on.
In other words, if Cubase could do this by allowing to set a - 4 beats value instead of Millisecond values in the track inspector track delay, that would make it possible.

@StraightAheadSamples It would be great to request Steinberg to add this feature as it would really make the use of libraries with Smart Delay more seamless and enjoyable.


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## JDK88 (Jul 2, 2022)

The saxophones sound strange to me.


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## bbrylow (Jul 2, 2022)

Jonhugo said:


> sent you a pm


Hi, did you find out how the 4 pay works?


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## bbrylow (Jul 2, 2022)

Given the cost, how would you compare this to Swing! Or Swing More! From ProjectSam?


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## R.G. (Jul 2, 2022)

sumskilz said:


> Their newly posted demo:
> 
> ...[snip]...


Good overall demo. A few thoughts...

Rhythm section sounds good. The background trombone and muted trumpet fills sound good. The sax soli at 00:39 is the best I've heard from a sample lib.

From 00:26 to 00:36, the unison lines played by altos and tenor2 have intonation problems, and overall don't blend well. (I suspect the tenor is the culprit behind both issues.) Also, the syncopated sax pickup at 00:34 comes off as out of pocket.

I was thinking the arrangement would end with a shout chorus featuring open trumpets letting loose.

The sax soli was the highlight for me. Encouraging.

@StraightAheadSamples

Which mic sets were used?


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## sumskilz (Jul 2, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> Given the cost, how would you compare this to Swing! Or Swing More! From ProjectSam?


I don’t have Swing! or Swing More!, but from what I’ve heard from official and user demos, they sound pretty good when used within their limitations. That said, they have the typical sample problem, which is a lack of a sense of intentionality, particularly when playing melodic lines. The Straight Ahead Samples tech solves this problem to a significant degree. Arguably, modeled/semi-modelled virtual instruments do a little better in that regard, or are at least are more versatile in what they can pull off, but modelled VIs don’t have the realistic timbre that Straight Ahead Samples libraries have.

Personally, I prefer the Straight Ahead Samples approach over the modelled approach, because it’s a bit like playing a part on the keyboard which the brass or woodwind player then translates into an appropriate performance. Although, I also hear great stuff done with modelled instruments, at least performance wise.

In any case, I wouldn’t choose those ProjectSAM libraries over Straight Ahead Samples at roughly the same price, because the former more often sounds like individual notes stitched together rather a performance.


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## bbrylow (Jul 3, 2022)

sumskilz said:


> I don’t have Swing! or Swing More!, but from what I’ve heard from official and user demos, they sound pretty good when used within their limitations. That said, they have the typical sample problem, which is a lack of a sense of intentionality, particularly when playing melodic lines. The Straight Ahead Samples tech solves this problem to a significant degree. Arguably, modeled/semi-modelled virtual instruments do a little better in that regard, or are at least are more versatile in what they can pull off, but modelled VIs don’t have the realistic timbre that Straight Ahead Samples libraries have.
> 
> Personally, I prefer the Straight Ahead Samples approach over the modelled approach, because it’s a bit like playing a part on the keyboard which the brass or woodwind player then translates into an appropriate performance. Although, I also hear great stuff done with modelled instruments, at least performance wise.
> 
> In any case, I wouldn’t choose those ProjectSAM libraries over Straight Ahead Samples at roughly the same price, because the former more often sounds like individual notes stitched together rather a performance.


I actually own both of those libraries and find the plane to be incredibly realistic within the big band, swing and jazz idioms. These are actually some of the best big band tools that I have worked with in a long time.


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## bbrylow (Jul 3, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples Given the cost, how would you compare this to Swing! Or Swing More! From ProjectSam?


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## EanS (Jul 3, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> I actually own both of those libraries and find the plane to be incredibly realistic within the big band, swing and jazz idioms. These are actually some of the best big band tools that I have worked with in a long time.


There's a Big Band Context and there is the Brass Section of a Big Band context. Being named Atomic Big - *The Horns!* (instead of The Whole Shebang!) answers a big part of your question.

All ProjectSam libraries are cinematic focused. Where Atomic Big Band (the Horns) focus specifically in
the horns section of a Big Band and digs deeper into that area (the horns) and not limited to that style/sound.

I mean, I love ProjectSam and their beautiful libraries, but they place you in the box that the library is intended for. So for chalala 50's dancing Jazz Bands, Swing is perfect. But it won't do Snarky Puppy for instance.

In a food analogy it's a Smörgåsbord vs a Specialty Dish


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 4, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> @StraightAheadSamples Given the cost, how would you compare this to Swing! Or Swing More! From ProjectSam?


I don't really want to speak negatively of another library, but I suppose since this is my thread I'm allowed a teensy bit of latitude in this regard. You can of course take my statements with a grain of salt. 

I don't own either of the libraries in question. But the demos have always sounded incredibly fake to me. As a lover of sample libraries and of jazz and horn writing in general, I was never convinced enough to purchase them. Sure, compared to everything that came before, it sounded a good bit better. But it still wasn't even close to sounding real. 

ABB! The Horns is the first library of its kind in our humble opinion. Nothing even comes close. We've got demos cooking of it being used in latin, pop and yes even snarky puppy modern funk, and it's amazing us at every turn. 

Almost no other library thus far, including the 2 in question above, have even _attempted_ to solve the issue of connecting one note to the next. They sound like they're recorded well, and the players sound good. And they even sample some of the correct articulations, but they just give you a handful of keyswitches and say "good luck connecting one to the next." We are the first to tackle this issue of moving from one note to the next. And in this regard, it shines far beyond anything else. 

While I'm on a little rant, I'll just add that the only other attempt to deal with the issue of moving _note to note_, has been the modeling approach, which is super cool and it's an exciting area of technology. And while I don't personally like the use of wind controllers and all that tweakery (it's just not for me; some people obvs have a lot of fun with it), it yields some good results. But the thing it *ignores* is one of the things that is *most important* to us. How a *real player actually plays*, and all the idiosyncratic things a player does when he/she moves from this note to that note, in a myriad of situations. So while the modeling thing is cool, it ends up yielding a saxophone (for example) that sounds "real," just not like any actual sax player that you've ever heard. All of the little moves and noises are wrong. I've always thought of our libraries as a *virtual-instrumentalist* rather than a virtual instrument. I'm a composer and if I need a saxophone part for a recording and someone says: "Here, you can have this amazing professional saxophone or this amazing professional sax player." I'd choose the sax player.

Forgive me for my mini-rant. But when someone asks, "how would you compare your library to X library?" My gut reaction is to simply type *"It's way better!"* and then press Enter. So a longer explanation seemed preferable to that.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 4, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> I don't really want to speak negatively of another library, but I suppose since this is my thread I'm allowed a teensy bit of latitude in this regard. You can of course take my statements with a grain of salt.
> 
> I don't own either of the libraries in question. But the demos have always sounded incredibly fake to me. As a lover of sample libraries and of jazz and horn writing in general, I was never convinced enough to purchase them. Sure, compared to everything that came before, it sounded a good bit better. But it still wasn't even close to sounding real.
> 
> ...


I think it is entirely understandable that you are proud of your own work! After all, you've been through all the stages of development and improvement and arrived at a point where you are ready to release. if you weren't proud of it on any level, we'd all be running mile! And to have you explain in a new way the ideas behind it is really helpful.

But, seriously, how does your library compare to...?

No, I won't finish that question. We all know you aren't trying to compete with Emotional Recorder for depth of artistry!


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 4, 2022)

Here's a super quick salsa demo we did with a 2 trumpets, trombone, alto sax and bari sax from Atomic Big Band! Didn't go all out with the production but sounds really promising in this context. Let us know what you think.


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## axb312 (Jul 4, 2022)

Demos are too dry for me...


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 4, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Demos are too dry for me...


Try listening in the bath.


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## Rudianos (Jul 4, 2022)

The Trumpets of the Salsa Atomico really were a highlight to me. I might have tweaked the bari a bit more.

Your going to get my money. But I want my Glenn Miller first


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## Rudianos (Jul 4, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Demos are too dry for me...


the power of VI is that Dry means we can put it where we want. Even in crazy spots. Even ... in a bathroom


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 4, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Demos are too dry for me...


It's not _particularly_ dry. There's a fair amount of room mixed in if you listen. I keep meaning to put some demos out with _only room mic_s. I will do soon.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 4, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> The Trumpets of the Salsa Atomico really were a highlight to me. I might have tweaked the bari a bit more.
> 
> Your going to get my money. But I want my Glenn Miller first


Yes yes. Glenn Miller coming. We will do soon.


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## TeamLeader (Jul 4, 2022)

How long is pre-release price ? Thank you


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## peterharket (Jul 6, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples Love it! Any plans for other big band ensembles libraries - maybe one on the softer side of the spectrum?


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## philthevoid (Jul 6, 2022)

TeamLeader said:


> How long is pre-release price ? Thank you


This is the info we got:


> Pre-order will end firmly on July 14th at noon (EST).


Quoted from:





Atomic Big Band! - The Horns (updated June 8, 2022)


I assume it's not about the time it takes, but rather looking far enough ahead that it makes the best decisions. Correct.




vi-control.net


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## bbrylow (Jul 6, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples Have you been able to determine how the four pay option works?


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## MohaJ (Jul 6, 2022)

Irreverent Goldfish (Atomic Big Band! The Horns Demo0


Straight Ahead Samples arose out of the need to fill a void in the sampled instrument world: Jazz. The lack of usable, authentic jazz samples has kept us (and we assume, a lot of other composers) from




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


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## EanS (Jul 7, 2022)

Seems someone at @StraightAheadSamples read my comment on Snarky Puppy  awesome new demo.

As I have no idea how / what are the articulations, I think this tune can be even further improved by varying them on repeated phrases, for instance, a stab note at the beginning in one, another one ending with a soft rip, a thrill. Of course in a showcasing purpose way, rogue players in an ensemble are frown upon, JB and probably other conductors used to fine them indeed. 

If you take inquires, please a stabby short notes RR one in tutti combinations. Firing chromatic fast phrases with call and response between one section and the other. Give me one 1 (*shrt fall), Give me two (*shrt fall fall) now 4 (*shrt fall fall fall fall), bring it home (fast cresc):

NOW TAKE ME TO THE BRIDGE! 😂 

my apologies, I get excited...😔 (cup mute articulation _wha wha wha whaaaa_)


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## bbrylow (Jul 7, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> @StraightAheadSamples Have you been able to determine how the four pay option works?


@StraightAheadSamples Any info?


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## Mellowstu (Jul 7, 2022)

Will there be a walkthrough video before the pre order ends?


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## sumskilz (Jul 7, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> @StraightAheadSamples Have you been able to determine how the four pay option works?


I didn't use it, but when I checked out with Paypal it gave me the option to select four monthly payments with no interest. Info here: https://www.paypal.com/us/digital-wallet/ways-to-pay/buy-now-pay-later


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## Trash Panda (Jul 7, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> @StraightAheadSamples Will it do Tank?



@StraightAheadSamples sooooo, can it pull off Tank?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 9, 2022)

Mellowstu said:


> Will there be a walkthrough video before the pre order ends?


Yes definitely. Tuesday is the goal date for that.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 9, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> @StraightAheadSamples Any info?


It's just a paypal thing. You'd have to ask them how it works.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 9, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> @StraightAheadSamples sooooo, can it pull off Tank?


It definitely can. I feel a little hesitant to mock it up as it was used as a demo for a previous horn library we worked on with another company. Seems a little funny to mock it up again, but it definitely would be fun.


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## peterharket (Jul 10, 2022)

peterharket said:


> @StraightAheadSamples Love it! Any plans for other big band ensembles libraries - maybe one on the softer side of the spectrum?


@StraightAheadSamples might not be something you can comment on at this stage?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 11, 2022)

peterharket said:


> @StraightAheadSamples might not be something you can comment on at this stage?


Definitely would be cool. Everything is kind of on the table right now and that is one of the ideas for sure. There's a handful of things we wanna do before we get there though. And we do feel like ABB! will cover most users for 90%+ of what they need jazz/pop/big band horns for.


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## Zanshin (Jul 12, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples is the preorder still over on the 14th? I can't see any dates on the website now ...

Walkthrough today?


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jul 12, 2022)

Hype


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## kgdrum (Jul 12, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Try listening in the bath.




Gertrude is deviating from the shower? What a rebel!


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 12, 2022)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Hype



Thanks Chris. Was just about to post.

Native Instruments just checked in to say things are pretty backed up. So, I _think_ we're gonna push another week or so. Still deciding but will send an email out and post here when we figure it out.


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## EanS (Jul 12, 2022)

Smart Delay really shines in what it does in this latest example. Workflow is beautiful you just record, let smart delay do its thing and then embellish it towards your intention.

Awesome indeed those legato and short notes combined.

Now I'll spend more time with Clarinette in that workflow to get used with it since on S1 sound variations are at a mouse's right click. Now I'll rely on smart delay..

Question, what if it's 3/4 or 6/8, do you still move it 4 bars *beats* back? I think in 3/4 (catch me if you can) I had to move 3 bars *beats* to process it.

Please confirm I'm wrong? It's always 4 bars *beats*

_(edit and confirmed, I was wrong)_


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 12, 2022)

EanS said:


> Smart Delay really shines in what it does in this latest example. Workflow is beautiful you just record, let smart delay do its thing and then embellish it towards your intention.
> 
> Awesome indeed those legato and short notes combined.
> 
> ...


Four BEATS, not bars. No matter the time signature, 4 beats.


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## Robin (Jul 12, 2022)

Sounds wonderful! Can't wait to get my hands on this!


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## BezO (Jul 12, 2022)

Nice! Looking forward to this despite my sub par horn arranging abilities.

Not sure why I didn't grab the clarinet - probably because I don't use them much - but I'll likely grab that if it goes on sale again.


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## alcorey (Jul 12, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Thanks Chris. Was just about to post.
> 
> Native Instruments just checked in to say things are pretty backed up. So, I _think_ we're gonna push another week or so. Still deciding but will send an email out and post here when we figure it out.


Does this mean the pre-order price end date will be extended?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 12, 2022)

alcorey said:


> Does this mean the pre-order price end date will be extended?


Yes. I just sent out an email about it. We're pushing only one week as Native Instruments promised us it'll be next week at the latest.


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## Zanshin (Jul 12, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Yes. I just sent out an email about it. We're pushing only one week as Native Instruments promised us it'll be next week at the latest.


A week isn't tooooooo bad.

EDIT: What's date and time for pre-order cutoff now then?

Great walk-thru btw! I would love to hear a quick playthrough of the multis.


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## Steve Hicks (Jul 13, 2022)

Before putting some money down, it'd be really good to know what the range of the "sizzling" lead trumpet is.... Do we have a double C??


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 13, 2022)

Steve Hicks said:


> Before putting some money down, it'd be really good to know what the range of the "sizzling" lead trumpet is.... Do we have a double C??


Good question. For those that might not know, when Steve says "double C" he means Bb. On the days of the recording, we just weren't getting consistent double C's (Bb's). Just kind of one of those things. Wasn't happening for him those days. We got some of course, but not enough to cover the articulations we needed so we capped it at *high G*.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jul 13, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Good question. For those that might not know, when Steve says "double C" he means Bb. On the days of the recording, we just weren't getting consistent double C's (Bb's). Just kind of one of those things. Wasn't happening for him those days. We got some of course, but not enough to cover the articulations we needed so we capped it at *high G*.


Awesome. Basically 3 Gs above middle C?


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## philthevoid (Jul 13, 2022)

Good overview video! 
It would be interesting to know more about the range of all instruments. Including trombones and bass trombone.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 13, 2022)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Awesome. Basically 3 Gs above middle C?


Correct G6. 


philthevoid said:


> Good overview video!
> It would be interesting to know more about the range of all instruments. Including trombones and bass trombone.


Totally. 
Lead Trumpet: C4-G6
Tpt 2: Bb3 - D6
Tpt 3 & 4: E3-Bb5

Lead Trombone: E2-D5
Trombones 2/3: E2-Bb4
Bass Trombone: G1(pedal G)-G4 

Alto 1/2: Db3-Bb5
Tenor 1/2: Ab2-F#5
Bari: C2-Ab5


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## Steve Hicks (Jul 13, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Correct G6.
> 
> Totally.
> Lead Trumpet: C4-G6
> ...


Thanks for these


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## gwretling (Jul 13, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples, the sound and tech of your ABB and other brass/woodwinds are really impressive! I've pre-ordered the product and looking forward to the release. A question though, with 2000 samples (and not a combo of samples and modelling tech) per note/pitch how do you manage to keep your library size so compact - for example 2.48GB uncompressed in BotT with 2000 samples/pitch?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 13, 2022)

gwretling said:


> @StraightAheadSamples, the sound and tech of your ABB and other brass/woodwinds are really impressive! I've pre-ordered the product and looking forward to the release. A question though, with 2000 samples (and not a combo of samples and modelling tech) per note/pitch how do you manage to keep your library size so compressed - for example 2.48GB uncompressed in BotT with 2000 samples/pitch?


Cool question. The lion's share of the samples are very short. Because they are often "inner" notes (those are the tricky ones to get to sound real so there are lots), they only have about 60ms on either side of the acutal length of the pitch. So, it's not like there are 2,000 8-second sustains with a release silence of a few seconds after. The shortest ones are only ~275ms long. They get increasingly larger through the 8 different note lengths all the way to those standard long sustained notes with silence after. 

It's interesting because in a way, like you said, it's not that big with all those samples. On the other hand, that's one patch. So, a 2+GB single instrument in Kontakt is pretty hefty.


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## gwretling (Jul 13, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Cool question. The lion's share of the samples are very short. Because they are often "inner" notes (those are the tricky ones to get to sound real so there are lots), they only have about 60ms on either side of the acutal length of the pitch. So, it's not like there are 2,000 8-second sustains with a release silence of a few seconds after. The shortest ones are only ~275ms long. They get increasingly larger through the 8 different note lengths all the way to those standard long sustained notes with silence after.
> 
> It's interesting because in a way, like you said, it's not that big with all those samples. On the other hand, that's one patch. So, a 2+GB single instrument in Kontakt is pretty hefty.


@StraightAheadSamples Thanks for your reply, interesting to hear more! How did you get the inspiration/idea for your smart delay system?


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## Kevin63101 (Jul 13, 2022)

Really excited about this one. Demos and overview have me sold. Tough part is the bigger purchase price chunk even though it includes 11 instruments. For me it was easier buying the 4 new standard instruments I have one at a time. Plan to part with one of my guitars I'm no longer using to make this happen by next week.

Based on my experience with your other releases, totally worth it.

_Yes I'm married and trying to keep it that way, haha. My wife is generous with my hobby_.


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## midiman (Jul 14, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples 
Did you see this question below about the smart delay?
——————
Is there a way to deal with the Smart Delay in Cubase, without having to drag the midi one bar before, but instead using the Cubase track inspector? I am not aware of it. I think cubase only allows to set a milliseconds value in the track delay. Anyone know otherwise?
It would be great to have a way to toggle between the two modes without having to drag Midi parts everytime an edit needs to be done.
Smart delay rules, because it sounds amazing, but would love to know ways to make it more workflow friendly, i.e. not having to move midi parts back and forth.
Not to mention that it would be really cool that one can visually hear in sync what is on the midi track even when the smart delay is on.
In other words, if Cubase could do this by allowing to set a - 4 beats value instead of Millisecond values in the track inspector track delay, that would make it possible.

@StraightAheadSamples It would be great to request Steinberg to add this feature as it would really make the use of libraries with Smart Delay more seamless and enjoyable.


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## DoubleTap (Jul 14, 2022)

Okay, so I'm fully on board the hype train with this one. When is the likely release date?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 14, 2022)

midiman said:


> @StraightAheadSamples
> Did you see this question below about the smart delay?
> ——————
> Is there a way to deal with the Smart Delay in Cubase, without having to drag the midi one bar before, but instead using the Cubase track inspector? I am not aware of it. I think cubase only allows to set a milliseconds value in the track delay. Anyone know otherwise?
> ...


Yea this would be great if the DAW developers would increase the midi negative offset amounts. Most of them only allow for a few hundred milliseconds as of now. My hope is if it can become a more "normal" thing in samples (there are a few other developers out there that are experimenting with it as well), that the DAW folks will get the memo.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 14, 2022)

DoubleTap said:


> Okay, so I'm fully on board the hype train with this one. When is the likely release date?


We've decided the pre-order will end next Thursday July 21st at noon Eastern time. And then the download will be available the next morning Friday July 22nd at 9am Eastern time.


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## midiman (Jul 14, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Yea this would be great if the DAW developers would increase the midi negative offset amounts. Most of them only allow for a few hundred milliseconds as of now. My hope is if it can become a more "normal" thing in samples (there are a few other developers out there that are experimenting with it as well), that the DAW folks will get the memo.


Maybe a midi Plugin could be possible to develop? So it is not reliant on DAW developers... I mean, It can't be that hard to develop one. Anyone know if there is already a midi plugin that can do this?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 14, 2022)

gwretling said:


> @StraightAheadSamples Thanks for your reply, interesting to hear more! How did you get the inspiration/idea for your smart delay system?


Ah, you're gonna get me rambling on now. The short version is that I had the beginnings of the idea many years ago when we were making our first horn library. But I decided it was untenable both to record and manage the samples after the fact. I wasn't as good at scripting then and couldn't visualize how to manage the massive matrix of samples. So that library ended up being a more traditional VI (just a bunch of isolated samples with keyswitches). During early COVID lockdown I was testing out playing phrases and extracting samples from the inner notes and re-assembling them via Kontakt. And at that point I realized the time had come and that the only way the elusive horn sample library was ever gonna be _solved_, would be with some kind of performance-based sampling coupled with a "Look-Ahead" ability to see what notes were coming next. Once I realized that no samplers could "look ahead" the next best thing was for it to delay the performance and use that time to analyze everything. I could go on, but I'll spare everyone my ramblings.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 14, 2022)

midiman said:


> Maybe a midi Plugin could be possible to develop? So it is not reliant on DAW developers... I mean, It can't be that hard to develop one. Anyone know if there is already a midi plugin that can do this?


Yes, ISW has one that works with their TSS. I'm not giving any timeline on this at all, but we have been looking at this option. It would require a bit of reworking how the innards of our scripts work, so it might be a minute.


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## Robin (Jul 14, 2022)

I think lookahead is the next frontier in sampling in general. There is not more realism to be found in the way most devs sample these days but really samplers need to become more intelligent to pick the right sample for the right situation. So even though my need for Jazz libraries is limited in my daily work I wholeheartedly support this project of pushing the boundaries and the results are spectacular. Just the other day I was fooling a seasoned trumpet player to believe that BotT was a real recording.

@StraightAheadSamples While we have you rambling already I have two more general questions about the approach.

1. In one of the previous threads you briefly mentioned that you are hitting the limits of Kontakt's capabilities of assigning samples(?). Is that still an issue or have you figured out ways to overcome that? If it is still an issue, in what way does it limit your approach (not sure if you can/want to talk about this)?

2. I think I speak for many of us wanting to see this approach translated to orchestral samples. In order to work in this realm, the recordings would ideally need to be more ambient or with multimic choices. From what I imagine (without knowing exactly how you do it) I believe that a considerable baked in reverb tail might make this sampling approach massively more complicated to record and program. I'm happy to see that you included room mics in this release but can you comment on this issue of baked in reverb/ambience?


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## artinro (Jul 14, 2022)

Robin said:


> 2. I think I speak for many of us wanting to see this approach translated to orchestral samples. In order to work in this realm, the recordings would ideally need to be more ambient or with multimic choices. From what I imagine (without knowing exactly how you do it) I believe that a considerable baked in reverb tail might make this sampling approach massively more complicated to record and program. I'm happy to see that you included room mics in this release but can you comment on this issue of baked in reverb/ambience?


Big +1 on this.


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## gwretling (Jul 14, 2022)

Robin said:


> 2. I think I speak for many of us wanting to see this approach translated to orchestral samples. In order to work in this realm, the recordings would ideally need to be more ambient or with multimic choices. From what I imagine (without knowing exactly how you do it) I believe that a considerable baked in reverb tail might make this sampling approach massively more complicated to record and program. I'm happy to see that you included room mics in this release but can you comment on this issue of baked in reverb/ambience?


I read a really interesting post from Arne Wallander (creator of Note Performer etc.) some time ago in another forum related to that question:

"Having spent the better part of a decade trying to turn anechoic samples into wet samples, I can say with confidence that wet samples are here to stay. The theory behind this hold up, and I'm happy to take you through the physics if you're willing to take the time.

When you record an instrument from close-up, the angle from which you record the instrument greatly affects the timbre. This is why microphone technique is an artform.

If you then add digital reverb to that dry sample, you create ten thousand reflections of that same sound. The reverb preserves all the inconsistencies of the original sample, because it's just a recording of one angle of the instrument, repeated over and over.

Lets compare to that to a real concert hall. When you record natural reverberation in a concert hall, you're also recording ten thousand reflections. But each reflection is a different angle of the instrument.

This concept is very important to understand. The natural room sound that you hear in a wet sample is not ten thousand copies of the same sound, but it's ten thousand microphone perspectives, where every angle of the instrument is represented, assembled into a smooth body of sound.

Even in a suboptimal concert hall, or an auditorium or church, the natural room sound is a consistent mix of all angles of the instrument, and contains the full body of sound of that instrument.

So if you record an IR in Musikverein or Boston Concert Hall, for use in a convolution reverb to apply on a dry sample, that's just a gimmick. It's not even close to the real thing. Because no matter what you do, you're only reflecting the same angle of sound ten thousand times over. The IR can't reconstruct the sound from the various angles of the instrument, because that sound information doesn't even exist in the samples.

A convolution reverb is no better or worse than an algorithmic reverb (technically speaking) in this regard. An IR is just a shortcut to capture the reflection pattern and color of the room, but it doesn't mirror reality, where each reflection doesn't just occur at a certain time, but it also represents a different perspective of the instrument.

So in short, wet samples are here to stay. You can get away with recording samples with a short reverb/ER (long enough to represent most angles of the instrument) and use your choice of high-quality digital reverb to further extend the reverb tail. Which is also what a lot of the developers are doing these days, recording on stages rather than concert halls. But to algorithmically go from a dry or anechoic sound, into a high-quality wet sound, is a flawed concept."


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 14, 2022)

Robin said:


> I think lookahead is the next frontier in sampling in general. There is not more realism to be found in the way most devs sample these days but really samplers need to become more intelligent to pick the right sample for the right situation. So even though my need for Jazz libraries is limited in my daily work I wholeheartedly support this project of pushing the boundaries and the results are spectacular. Just the other day I was fooling a seasoned trumpet player to believe that BotT was a real recording.


It's nice to hear all that and we appreciate your support and thoughtfulness on all this Robin.


Robin said:


> @StraightAheadSamples While we have you rambling already I have two more general questions about the approach.
> 
> 1. In one of the previous threads you briefly mentioned that you are hitting the limits of Kontakt's capabilities of assigning samples(?). Is that still an issue or have you figured out ways to overcome that? If it is still an issue, in what way does it limit your approach (not sure if you can/want to talk about this)?


Well, it is still an issue as any barrier or limit is still an issue of sorts. We know there's still a boundary here to push against. I don't think any virtual instrument can or _*should be expected*_ to do everything. We've been keeping the scope of the playing style on each instrument very focused because of the literal sample limit in Kontakt. So, it would be nice to be able include more options in one patch. But we have some ideas and are dialing in the approach on each and every library, so we are finding ways to streamline things and include more (you can see that in the evolution from BOTT to ABB! I think).


Robin said:


> 2. I think I speak for many of us wanting to see this approach translated to orchestral samples. In order to work in this realm, the recordings would ideally need to be more ambient or with multimic choices. From what I imagine (without knowing exactly how you do it) I believe that a considerable baked in reverb tail might make this sampling approach massively more complicated to record and program. I'm happy to see that you included room mics in this release but can you comment on this issue of baked in reverb/ambience?


This is a massive conversation, but you are totally correct on all counts. That the wet samples are important *and* that they are tricky with our method of sampling. The room we've been recording in is just about the limit of how big it could be without causing artifacts. And luckily, and by design, that size room is flattering for horns and in the styles it might be used in. But anything approaching scoring stage or orchestral size is gonna pose some problems. I do have some ideas on how to solve it, but I think i'll keep those close to the vest for now.


----------



## icecoolpool (Jul 14, 2022)

Really impressed with the walkthrough, I'm very tempted. I do have one question, however. How dies the smart delay cope with tempo changes in the daw? Wouldn't the VIs react a bar late to such changes and fall out of sync or is there a work around?


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 14, 2022)

icecoolpool said:


> Really impressed with the walkthrough, I'm very tempted. I do have one question, however. How dies the smart delay cope with tempo changes in the daw? Wouldn't the VIs react a bar late to such changes and fall out of sync or is there a work around?


If I remember, I think the answer was to have a separate track for the other tempo if it is a significant shift.


----------



## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 14, 2022)

icecoolpool said:


> Really impressed with the walkthrough, I'm very tempted. I do have one question, however. How dies the smart delay cope with tempo changes in the daw? Wouldn't the VIs react a bar late to such changes and fall out of sync or is there a work around?





Bee_Abney said:


> If I remember, I think the answer was to have a separate track for the other tempo if it is a significant shift.


If it's a small/moderate shift it works fine. If it's an extreme tempo change you can just bounce/freeze the first tempo part and then go on to the next tempo.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 14, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> If it's a small/moderate shift it works fine. If it's an extreme tempo change you can just bounce/freeze the first tempo part and then go on to the next tempo.


Thanks! I remember now. Given how important that advice is, you'd think I'd actually remember from the first time!


----------



## Robin (Jul 14, 2022)

Thanks so much for the insight, @StraightAheadSamples ! Really appreciate you taking the time to talk a bit about the background of this.


----------



## aileero (Jul 14, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples I remember seeing in a demo that you guys had mutes for the trumpets I think. What mutes are available? And are they simulated mutes or separate recordings?


----------



## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 14, 2022)

aileero said:


> @StraightAheadSamples I remember seeing in a demo that you guys had mutes for the trumpets I think. What mutes are available? And are they simulated mutes or separate recordings?


Yes we have mutes for trumpets and trombones. They are an assortment of standard mutes: straight, cup, harmon, bucket, etc. And they are available on all samples. It is a technique we have developed where we recorded the actual physical mutes and can apply them to the samples. So, it's not just some EQ matching stuff. They are very good and realistic (as many here who have used them can attest to). Before you ask, we have not solved the plunger moving in real-time, we're still working on that.


----------



## prodigalson (Jul 15, 2022)

I'm not sure is this vid was already posted here but it sounds pretty damn good. 

The phrasing of the sax soli at 00:39 especially is practically impossible to achieve with anything that currently exists.


----------



## midiman (Jul 15, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Ah, you're gonna get me rambling on now. The short version is that I had the beginnings of the idea many years ago when we were making our first horn library. But I decided it was untenable both to record and manage the samples after the fact. I wasn't as good at scripting then and couldn't visualize how to manage the massive matrix of samples. So that library ended up being a more traditional VI (just a bunch of isolated samples with keyswitches). During early COVID lockdown I was testing out playing phrases and extracting samples from the inner notes and re-assembling them via Kontakt. And at that point I realized the time had come and that the only way the elusive horn sample library was ever gonna be _solved_, would be with some kind of performance-based sampling coupled with a "Look-Ahead" ability to see what notes were coming next. Once I realized that no samplers could "look ahead" the next best thing was for it to delay the performance and use that time to analyze everything. I could go on, but I'll spare everyone my ramblings.


You're definitely not rambling! This is all very interesting and exciting as it surely represents a step forward in what is possible to do in terms of realism. Can't congratulate you guys enough on the Smart Delay tech and it's implementation.


----------



## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 15, 2022)

Here's another cool demo that's been cooking awhile, finally finished it this morning. Nice to get a chance to something that's _not_ jazz for a change.


----------



## Zanshin (Jul 15, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Here's another cool demo that's been cooking awhile, finally finished it this morning. Nice to get a chance to something that's _not_ jazz for a change.



That's badass!


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow (Jul 15, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Here's another cool demo that's been cooking awhile, finally finished it this morning. Nice to get a chance to something that's _not_ jazz for a change.



That’s great. I’m really tempted to bite the bullet and pick this one up. I’m really into 70s jazz-funk and also more fuzzed out psychedelic stuff like The Budos Band, and it’s looking like this could be great for these genres.


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## mojamusic (Jul 15, 2022)

Sounds amazing! I have several demos with the SA! Sax and Trumpet libraries and I LOOOOOVEEEE what you guys are doing. can't wait to get me hands on this! Good stuff!


----------



## Jonhugo (Jul 15, 2022)

bbrylow said:


> Hi, did you find out how the 4 pay works?


I did not, would just dm them directly


----------



## Zanshin (Jul 16, 2022)

Jonhugo said:


> I did not, would just dm them directly





StraightAheadSamples said:


> It's just a paypal thing. You'd have to ask them how it works.











Buy Now Pay Later | Pay in 4 Installment Payments


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www.paypal.com













PayPal Pay In 4 Review 2022
 

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www.forbes.com


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Jul 16, 2022)

Just wanted to share this here


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 16, 2022)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Just wanted to share this here



That's too good. It must be witchcraft.


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## Pianolando (Jul 16, 2022)

I couldn’t resist, got it after hearing the last demo. Really looking forward to trying it out on both jazz, Latin and pop/funk-stuff!


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## floydian05 (Jul 16, 2022)

WOW! Blown away by that latest demo!


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## Mike T (Jul 18, 2022)

gwretling said:


> @StraightAheadSamples once again, impressive demo!! Another question, how does the integration of Smart Delay in ABB work in notation software like Sibelius? It would be great with such a demo also! Using Sibelius mostly when arranging/composing/engraving for Big Band.


I use the other horns in my big band stuff and they are great!
I write the arrangement using sib instruments and when happy with the arrangement I clone the file to work on the audio otherwise the keyswitches mess up the notation file.
@gwretling are you using any other sample libraries with Sib atm or just their stock sounds (and/or maybe JABB3 which don't require switches)?

I then add the relevant keyswitches before dragging the Smart Delay instrument(s) 4 beats early.
Tweaks for the best audio only happen at this stage.

The only problem I have is when the piece isn't in 4/4.
My latest BB is a trombone feature waltz and my brain won't easily let me look at the notation like this!
Tokyo Scoring Strings uses the same idea but has a 1 second delay so I import from Sib to Pro Tools and put a delay on the other tracks.
N.B. Pro Tools doesn't support the free plug-in that comes with TSS so if I'm writing in PT I route all other tracks to the PT delay plug-in so I can switch it on and off very easily.
With ABB I suppose I could work out the ms delay based on the tempo but as most stuff has a tempo that breathes I doubt this will work well.
I'd love an option for setting the Smart Delay to 6 beats (and others) then at least the notation would be off by a number of full bars.
Maybe @StraightAheadSamples can offer some workflow ideas for these issues?


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## Martin S (Jul 18, 2022)

If I'm not mistaken, you move the midi 1_ full bar_ early - regardless of time signature. So in 4/4, 1 bar = 4 beats early; in 3/4, 1 bar = 3 beats early etc... But maybe I've got this wrong ?


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## Robin (Jul 18, 2022)

Martin S said:


> If I'm not mistaken, you move the midi 1_ full bar_ early - regardless of time signature. So in 4/4, 1 bar = 4 beats early; in 3/4, 1 bar = 3 beats early etc... But maybe I've got this wrong ?


It is always 4 quarter note beats early. Regardless of the time signature.


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## Mike T (Jul 18, 2022)

Martin S said:


> If I'm not mistaken, you move the midi 1_ full bar_ early - regardless of time signature. So in 4/4, 1 bar = 4 beats early; in 3/4, 1 bar = 3 beats early etc... But maybe I've got this wrong ?


Afraid so. - 4 quarter notes.
This makes it more awkward but only if you dont leave the Smart engine till after finishing the piece (imo).


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## Martin S (Jul 18, 2022)

Oh, I stand corrected


----------



## dreddiknight (Jul 19, 2022)

I want this... But I want to hear some stuff in the style of the JB's...

That classic funk, which while I'm sure would be doable with the sounds I'm heading, I haven't heard a demo that captures that to my ears.


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## EanS (Jul 19, 2022)

dreddiknight said:


> I want this... But I want to hear some stuff in the style of the JB's...
> 
> That classic funk, which while I'm sure would be doable with the sounds I'm heading, I haven't heard a demo that captures that to my ears.


I also requested that too ♥️ We need the stank, some call it funk, but t'was booty stank indeed. 






Atomic Big Band! - The Horns (updated June 8, 2022)


Their newly posted demo: ...[snip]... Good overall demo. A few thoughts... Rhythm section sounds good. The background trombone and muted trumpet fills sound good. The sax soli at 00:39 is the best I've heard from a sample lib. From 00:26 to 00:36, the unison lines played by altos and tenor2...




vi-control.net


----------



## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 19, 2022)

dreddiknight said:


> I want this... But I want to hear some stuff in the style of the JB's...
> 
> That classic funk, which while I'm sure would be doable with the sounds I'm heading, I haven't heard a demo that captures that to my ears.





EanS said:


> I also requested that too ♥️ We need the stank, some call it funk, but t'was booty stank indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes yes. One is coming.


----------



## Steve Hicks (Jul 19, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Yes yes. One is coming.


+ I’m not sure if it’s quite the right library for such things but I’d love to hear if it can handle an Incredibles style track….?


----------



## Markrs (Jul 19, 2022)




----------



## Robin (Jul 19, 2022)




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## Zanshin (Jul 19, 2022)

Robin said:


>



That tutti section at the end is the mutt's nuts.


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## Zanshin (Jul 19, 2022)

Steve Hicks said:


> + I’m not sure if it’s quite the right library for such things but I’d love to hear if it can handle an Incredibles style track….?


My specific desire is for it to handle Goldfinger era John Barry jazzy orchestra stuff. The Incredibles soundtrack is in that vein too if remember correctly.


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## gwretling (Jul 19, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples once again, impressive demo!! 

How does the integration of Smart Delay in ABB work in notation software like Sibelius? It would be great with such a demo also! Using Sibelius mostly when arranging/composing/engraving for Big Band.

Is there no p-mp dynamics in the ABB?


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## philthevoid (Jul 19, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> My specific desire is for it to handle Goldfinger era John Barry jazzy orchestra stuff. The Incredibles soundtrack is in that vein too if remember correctly.


I don't doubt the library can do most of that style well. But the huge reverb from the scoring hall accounts for almost half of that "The Incredibles" sound. Provided you're able to recreate a similar (credible!) room feeling, then you're in business I think.
The Incredibles soundtrack also uses more brass instruments that are not in ABB like tubas and French horns so you'd still need other libraries to fill those shoes.


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## Zanshin (Jul 19, 2022)

philthevoid said:


> I don't doubt the library can do most of that style well. But the huge reverb from the scoring hall accounts for almost half of that "The Incredibles" sound. Provided you're able to recreate a similar (credible!) room feeling, then you're in business I think.
> The Incredibles soundtrack also uses more brass instruments that are not in ABB like tubas and French horns so you'd still need other libraries to fill those shoes.


Yeah I don’t know much about the Incredibles soundtrack but the original James Bond theme as recorded by John Barry has nearly the same brass and woodwinds setup as ABB. I do own a megaton of brass though.

I’m excited to see how ABB fairs in MIR 3D  The SA clarinet works great in it.


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## bbrylow (Jul 19, 2022)

Honestly at this price point, with everything else that’s out there I’ll wait till this hits APD or VSTBuzz.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 19, 2022)

gwretling said:


> @StraightAheadSamples once again, impressive demo!!
> 
> How does the integration of Smart Delay in ABB work in notation software like Sibelius? It would be great with such a demo also! Using Sibelius mostly when arranging/composing/engraving for Big Band.
> 
> Is there no p-mp dynamics in the ABB?


It could totally work and we've been dreaming of one since the beginning. Haven't ventured into actually getting it together though. Correct, there is no piano/mezzopiano dynamics in ABB.


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## gwretling (Jul 19, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> It could totally work and we've been dreaming of one since the beginning. Haven't ventured into actually getting it together though. Correct, there is no piano/mezzopiano dynamics in ABB.


Ok, looking forward to a video of that integration!

Why no softer dynamics?


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## Mike T (Jul 20, 2022)

Markrs said:


>



Maybe I'm getting grumpy in my old age but I found this painful to watch/hear.
Of no use other than the short mock-up at the end.


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## ugerhard (Jul 20, 2022)

gwretling said:


> Ok, looking forward to a video of that integration!
> 
> Why no softer dynamics?


That questions was answered earlier in the thread: https://vi-control.net/community/th...horns-updated-june-8-2022.122261/post-5060116


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## Markrs (Jul 20, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> My specific desire is for it to handle Goldfinger era John Barry jazzy orchestra stuff. The Incredibles soundtrack is in that vein too if remember correctly.


I remember reading somewhere that the director of the Incredibles, Brad Bird approached John Barry to do the soundtrack in the style of his Bond soundtracks but he turned it down as he didn't want to do something in the style he had done before. They then approach Micheal Giacchono who then did a fabulous job in the John Barry big band style.


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## Zanshin (Jul 20, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I remember reading somewhere that the director of the Incredibles, Brad Bird approached John Barry to do the soundtrack in the style of his Bond soundtracks but he turned it down as he didn't want to do something in the style he had done before. They then approach Micheal Giacchono who then did a fabulous job in the John Barry big band style.


I'll have to give it a more serious listen


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jul 20, 2022)

Mike T said:


> Maybe I'm getting grumpy in my old age but I found this painful to watch/hear.
> Of no use other than the short mock-up at the end.


Sorry Mike


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## Ricgus3 (Jul 20, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> In addition to announcing our pre-order of our new clarinet library, we're so excited to announce our upcoming project, *Atomic Big Band! - The Horns. (edited name June 8, 2022)*
> 
> We're already deep into production on this and it's going to be amazing. The highlights are:
> - Full big band
> ...


Is your products windcontroller supported?  Asking for a friend


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## Mike T (Jul 20, 2022)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Sorry Mike


No apology needed.
I've watched and enjoyed a lot of your other vids.
It was just this one (or its just me)!!


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jul 20, 2022)

Mike T said:


> No apology needed.
> I've watched and enjoyed a lot of your other vids.
> It was just this one (or its just me)!!


Appreciate you checking out the videos either way Mike.  Take care!


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## Rudianos (Jul 20, 2022)

Mike T said:


> Maybe I'm getting grumpy in my old age but I found this painful to watch/hear.
> Of no use other than the short mock-up at the end.


Well we have to get a sense of the individual articulations in a sterile environment. Too often reviews just show the polished results. Might feel the same if we listened to a Sax practice growling. Id recommend some scotch when watching, and no offense to poster. End results were great.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jul 20, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Well we have to get a sense of the individual articulations in a sterile environment. Too often reviews just show the polished results. Might feel the same if we listened to a Sax practice growling. Id recommend some scotch when watching, and no offense to poster. End results were great.


Agreed, that's one reason I've preferred to stay 3rd party, despite invitations to join review companies in the past. Appreciate it!


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## DoubleTap (Jul 20, 2022)

There are review companies?


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## Zanshin (Jul 20, 2022)

DoubleTap said:


> There are review companies?


Maybe like for example Sample Library Review?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 20, 2022)

Ricgus3 said:


> Is your products windcontroller supported?  Asking for a friend


Not at this time. It's not really the concept. Though I'm warming up to the idea of adding some functionality for that. But as of now, no.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 20, 2022)

Alright cats and kittens. In case anyone wasn't sure, the *pre-order will end tomorrow (Thursday) at noon (eastern time)*. We are gonna be very strict about it so just a final heads up. Lots more demos and videos coming over the weeks to follow.


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## emilio_n (Jul 21, 2022)

Maybe discussed already, but I can't find it.
I know the Atomic Big Band are all new samples, but some overlap with the solo libraries? For instance, having Atomic, no need the solo trumpet or the horn. Have the solo more dynamics or articulations?


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## Zanshin (Jul 21, 2022)

emilio_n said:


> Maybe discussed already, but I can't find it.
> I know the Atomic Big Band are all new samples, but some overlap with the solo libraries? For instance, having Atomic, no need the solo trumpet or the horn. Have the solo more dynamics or articulations?


I think "The New Standard Horn Trio" is meant for lower dynamic uses compared to Atomic. 

I got my order in last night, looks like only 3:30 left on the intro price countdown.


----------



## Kevin63101 (Jul 21, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> Alright cats and kittens. In case anyone wasn't sure, the *pre-order will end tomorrow (Thursday) at noon (eastern time)*. We are gonna be very strict about it so just a final heads up. Lots more demos and videos coming over the weeks to follow.


Just got my order in -- EXCITED!!!!


----------



## Rudianos (Jul 21, 2022)

Okay waited to the last minute. I respect that this company followed through with its promise of a Glenn Miller, 30s style piece. Clarinet and all! Others are not so receptive. Sounded fantastic! That really put it over the top for me. Pre ordered.


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## emilio_n (Jul 21, 2022)

Join the party at the last minute!
Looking forward to getting the rest of the solo instruments in the future.


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## BezO (Jul 21, 2022)

I knew I would get it, but I waited until the 11th hour as well. I'm looking forward to these. As good as the previous solo instruments are, they're not the tools for the louder stuff. And I've never had a big band's worth of horns. This should be fun.

Since these won't do the quiet stuff, I'm still looking forward to an alto sax to join the horn trio. A flute would be nice too. And hopefully the clarinet goes on sale again.


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## Cheezus (Jul 21, 2022)

Is it releasing today?


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## David Kudell (Jul 21, 2022)

Mike T said:


> Maybe I'm getting grumpy in my old age but I found this painful to watch/hear.
> Of no use other than the short mock-up at the end.


Hi Mike, just a little suggestion - if you're going to be critical, at least be constructive - ie, "why didn't you like it." Otherwise, this is just putting negativity out into the world and spreading it to hundreds of other people.

Thank you Chris for your video. Have a great day everyone, and have fun writing music!


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Jul 22, 2022)

David Kudell said:


> Hi Mike, just a little suggestion - if you're going to be critical, at least be constructive - ie, "why didn't you like it." Otherwise, this is just putting negativity out into the world and spreading it to hundreds of other people.
> 
> Thank you Chris for your video. Have a great day everyone, and have fun writing music!


Appreciate it David! Hope you're well my friend.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 22, 2022)

Emails just went out with serials and download info for all pre-orders. If you didn't get yours dm me here or contact support and we'll get you sorted.

Thanks everyone!


----------



## emilio_n (Jul 22, 2022)




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## Robin (Jul 22, 2022)

Just spent a few minutes with it. Very impressed, you guys outdid yourself! Will give it a proper go in the next couple of days.


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## Rudianos (Jul 22, 2022)

Sitting in Alto Sax Lead patch ... love that smart delay. Could not imagine how to that type of expression otherwise.


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## Rudianos (Jul 22, 2022)

One of the things that I really like is that I can ramp up the vibrato to match that beautiful lush 16th note 1930s sound that no one seems to be able to pull off anymore, or willing to. People just don't have good tastes anymore I guess  thanks again for getting it!


----------



## Steve Hicks (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve Hicks said:


> + I’m not sure if it’s quite the right library for such things but I’d love to hear if it can handle an Incredibles style track….?




OK gonna answer my own question - only had it a couple of hours so this is a little rough around the edges...but I've never found a trumpet library that could get anywhere near this! 

View attachment Glory days - London - Edgy - 1644 -0dB.mp3


btw - solo sax is Broadway lites as right now I know that lib bit better for the nuances

PS please excuse the by-ear transcription!!


----------



## osterdamus (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve Hicks said:


> OK gonna answer my own question - only had it a couple of hours so this is a little rough around the edges...but I've never found a trumpet library that could get anywhere near this!
> 
> View attachment Glory days - London - Edgy - 1644 -0dB.mp3
> 
> ...


That was lovely!


----------



## Zanshin (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve Hicks said:


> OK gonna answer my own question - only had it a couple of hours so this is a little rough around the edges...but I've never found a trumpet library that could get anywhere near this!
> 
> View attachment Glory days - London - Edgy - 1644 -0dB.mp3
> 
> ...


Fantastic


----------



## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve Hicks said:


> OK gonna answer my own question - only had it a couple of hours so this is a little rough around the edges...but I've never found a trumpet library that could get anywhere near this!
> 
> View attachment Glory days - London - Edgy - 1644 -0dB.mp3
> 
> ...


That sounds great! Fun to hear it in this context.


----------



## ryans (Jul 22, 2022)

Steve Hicks said:


> OK gonna answer my own question - only had it a couple of hours so this is a little rough around the edges...but I've never found a trumpet library that could get anywhere near this!
> 
> View attachment Glory days - London - Edgy - 1644 -0dB.mp3
> 
> ...


Really nice


----------



## Graham Grant (Jul 22, 2022)

Only had a couple of hours with it, but it's good. There's a few kinks needing ironed out in the saxes I think with distortion / breath noise, but it's got some serious attitude and better than every other library out there for a dry sound. For those wanting to use it in a funk context, I think it'll work well, especially the fact that you can get very short falls if you use a low key velocity on the note you're adding the short fall articulation to. Trombones are the best I've heard. Very quick mock-up attached - now I'm just going to wait for them to do a flute! It doesn't show what articulations it's pulling out when in smart delay mode, but I've convinced myself I've seen a video where it did.


----------



## Steve Hicks (Jul 23, 2022)

there's a youtube clip that's been online for a few years of the brass section of Casino Royale. I've tried to recreate it a few times...


Thought I'd have another go. No, it's not Derek Watkins or indeed the rest of the awesome London session players but I think Atomic gives it a decent go!

View attachment casino Brass.mp3


BTW is there really no flutter tongue artic in Atomic? 

Guests - Cinematic Studio for hrns, bass bone and tuba


----------



## puuluu (Jul 24, 2022)

Great library but the lowest octave of lead trombone is totally out of tune, up to half step. Please fix this.


----------



## Rudianos (Jul 24, 2022)

puuluu said:


> Great library but the lowest octave of lead trombone is totally out of tune, up to half step. Please fix this.


yes it happens on low C3 B on piano like its pitched 1 note off ... ohh C3 sometimes is in tune and sometimes out of tune. Joy to the World works .. but a fresh strike is off ... legato patch ... all mics ... lower than that off too


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 25, 2022)

puuluu said:


> Great library but the lowest octave of lead trombone is totally out of tune, up to half step. Please fix this.





Rudianos said:


> yes it happens on low C3 B on piano like its pitched 1 note off ... ohh C3 sometimes is in tune and sometimes out of tune. Joy to the World works .. but a fresh strike is off ... legato patch ... all mics ... lower than that off too


Ahh darn. Don't know how that slipped by. Ok working on that a few other smaller bugs today and will have an update as soon as its done (matter of days not weeks obvs).


----------



## Zanshin (Jul 25, 2022)

My honeymoon report: Love it  I was nervous about doing a preorder as I've been burned in the past by another company, but I am happy to say Atomic delivered (for me). I have La Clarinette already but will be picking up the Horn Trio at some point soon as well.


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## gwretling (Jul 25, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples, great product the ABB! I´m now implementing it in a Big Band score in Sibelius. The smart delay works really good for playback even in Sibelius but I can´t get the articulation change/key switches to work with midi CC-command. How to?


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 25, 2022)

gwretling said:


> @StraightAheadSamples, great product the ABB! I´m now implementing it in a Big Band score in Sibelius. The smart delay works really good for playback even in Sibelius but I can´t get the articulation change/key switches to work with midi CC-command. How to?


That's great. I have no idea how to implement articulation changes in Sibelius to talk to our libraries in Kontakt. I've researched it a little but it's a whole other thing to learn and it's just down on the list a ways. As a Sibelius user, I'd love to be able to implement this.


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## gwretling (Jul 25, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> That's great. I have no idea how to implement articulation changes in Sibelius to talk to our libraries in Kontakt. I've researched it a little but it's a whole other thing to learn and it's just down on the list a ways. As a Sibelius user, I'd love to be able to implement this.


@StraightAheadSamples I just got it to work while experimenting with the lead trumpet patch by using technique text (Ctrl/Cmnd + T) in Sibelius and Midi CC writing ~N33,60 at the start of the note to trigger keyswitch rel. to note 33 on (long fall) and ~O33,60 at the end of the note to turn the KS off going into the next note. Here´s how to get all the ABB instr. articulations to work in Sibelius:

*Alto sax 1, 2 + Tenor sax 1, 2*
Legato: ~N24,60 (note start) + ~O24,60 (note ending)
Staccato: ~N25,60 (note start) + ~O25,60 (note ending)
Staccatissimo: ~N26,60 (note start) + ~O26,60 (note ending)
Tongued: ~N27,60 (note start) + ~O27,60 (note ending)
Forte piano: ~N28,60 (note start) + ~O28,60 (note ending)
Half -step trill: ~N29,60 (note start) + ~O29,60 (note ending)
Whole-step trill: ~N30,60 (note start) + ~O30,60 (note ending)
Fall: ~N32,60 (note start) + ~O32,60 (note ending)
Long fall: ~N33,60 (note start) + ~O33,60 (note ending)
Scoop: ~N34,60 (note start) + ~O34,60 (note ending)
Doit: ~N35,60 (note start) + ~O35,60 (note ending)
Flop: ~N36,60 (note start) + ~O36,60 (note ending)
Rip: ~N37,60 (note start) + ~O37,60 (note ending)
Gliss/turns: ~N38,60 (note start) + ~O38,60 (note ending)
Half-step bend: ~N39,60 (note start) + ~O39,60 (note ending)
Crescendo: ~N40,60 (note start) + ~O40,60 (note ending)
Hairpin: ~N41,60 (note start) + ~O41,60 (note ending)

*Baritone sax*
Legato: ~N12,60 (note start) + ~O12,60 (note ending)
Staccato: ~N13,60 (note start) + ~O13,60 (note ending)
Staccatissimo: ~N214,60 (note start) + ~O14,60 (note ending)
Tongued: ~N15,60 (note start) + ~O15,60 (note ending)
Forte piano: ~N16,60 (note start) + ~O16,60 (note ending)
Half -step trill: ~N17,60 (note start) + ~O17,60 (note ending)
Whole-step trill: ~N18,60 (note start) + ~O18,60 (note ending)
Fall: ~N20,60 (note start) + ~O20,60 (note ending)
Long fall: ~N21,60 (note start) + ~O21,60 (note ending)
Scoop: ~N22,60 (note start) + ~O22,60 (note ending)
Doit: ~N23,60 (note start) + ~O23,60 (note ending)
Flop: ~N24,60 (note start) + ~O24,60 (note ending)
Rip: ~N25,60 (note start) + ~O25,60 (note ending)
Gliss/turns: ~N26,60 (note start) + ~O26,60 (note ending)
Half-step bend: ~N27,60 (note start) + ~O27,60 (note ending)
Crescendo: ~N28,60 (note start) + ~O28,60 (note ending)
Hairpin: ~N29,60 (note start) + ~O29,60 (note ending)

*Trumpet 1, 2, 3, 4*
Legato: ~N24,60 (note start) + ~O24,60 (note ending)
Staccato: ~N25,60 (note start) + ~O25,60 (note ending)
Staccatissimo: ~N26,60 (note start) + ~O26,60 (note ending)
Tongued: ~N27,60 (note start) + ~O27,60 (note ending)
Forte piano: ~N28,60 (note start) + ~O28,60 (note ending)
Half -step trill: ~N29,60 (note start) + ~O29,60 (note ending)
Whole-step trill: ~N30,60 (note start) + ~O30,60 (note ending)
Shakes: ~N31,60 (note start) + ~O31,60 (note ending)
Fall: ~N32,60 (note start) + ~O32,60 (note ending)
Long fall: ~N33,60 (note start) + ~O33,60 (note ending)
Scoop: ~N34,60 (note start) + ~O34,60 (note ending)
Doit: ~N35,60 (note start) + ~O35,60 (note ending)
Flop: ~N36,60 (note start) + ~O36,60 (note ending)
Rip: ~N37,60 (note start) + ~O37,60 (note ending)
Gliss/turns: ~N38,60 (note start) + ~O38,60 (note ending)
Half-step bend: ~N39,60 (note start) + ~O39,60 (note ending)
Crescendo: ~N40,60 (note start) + ~O40,60 (note ending)
Hairpin: ~N41,60 (note start) + ~O41,60 (note ending)

*Trombone 1, 2, 3 + Bass Trombone*
Legato: ~N12,60 (note start) + ~O12,60 (note ending)
Staccato: ~N13,60 (note start) + ~O13,60 (note ending)
Staccatissimo: ~N214,60 (note start) + ~O14,60 (note ending)
Tongued: ~N15,60 (note start) + ~O15,60 (note ending)
Forte piano: ~N16,60 (note start) + ~O16,60 (note ending)
Shakes: ~N19,60 (note start) + ~O19,60 (note ending)
Fall: ~N20,60 (note start) + ~O20,60 (note ending)
Long fall: ~N21,60 (note start) + ~O21,60 (note ending)
Scoop: ~N22,60 (note start) + ~O22,60 (note ending)
Doit: ~N23,60 (note start) + ~O23,60 (note ending)
Flop: ~N24,60 (note start) + ~O24,60 (note ending)
Rip: ~N25,60 (note start) + ~O25,60 (note ending)
Gliss/turns: ~N26,60 (note start) + ~O26,60 (note ending)
Half-step bend: ~N27,60 (note start) + ~O27,60 (note ending)
Crescendo: ~N28,60 (note start) + ~O28,60 (note ending)
Hairpin: ~N29,60 (note start) + ~O29,60 (note ending)


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## pz_music (Jul 26, 2022)

Is it possible currently, or a planned feature perhaps, to have a kind of global "Smart-Delay"-Switch? I'd love to be able to switch it on/off for all my Atomic Big Band instances at once


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 27, 2022)

gwretling said:


> @StraightAheadSamples I just got it to work while experimenting with the lead trumpet patch by using technique text (Ctrl/Cmnd + T) in Sibelius and Midi CC writing ~N33,60 at the start of the note to trigger keyswitch rel. to note 33 on (long fall) and ~O33,60 at the end of the note to turn the KS off going into the next note. Here´s how to get all the ABB instr. articulations to work in Sibelius:
> 
> *Alto sax 1, 2 + Tenor sax 1, 2*
> Legato: ~N24,60 (note start) + ~O24,60 (note ending)
> ...


yowza. amazing work. will definitely put this in the pipeline to get some sound sets built for sibelius. would be very cool.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Jul 27, 2022)

pz_music said:


> Is it possible currently, or a planned feature perhaps, to have a kind of global "Smart-Delay"-Switch? I'd love to be able to switch it on/off for all my Atomic Big Band instances at once


I'd like to implement this. A multiscript _might _be able to do this, but I haven't messed with those much.


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## gwretling (Jul 27, 2022)

StraightAheadSamples said:


> yowza. amazing work. will definitely put this in the pipeline to get some sound sets built for sibelius. would be very cool.


Looking forward to that!
Btw, your smart delay really makes jazz phrasing more alive than any other jazz rel. sample library on the market for music notation in Sibelius, great work! Your engine and scripting with tons of short legato transition samples etc. from musical contexts seems to be one of the keys for musical and genre idiomatic sample innovation!


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## philthevoid (Jul 27, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples 
Hi!
I'm trying some of the features out to learn the instrument and I found 2 more small bugs.
Steps to reproduce:
1-Load Lead Trumpet.
2-Switch to "control" tab.
3-Enable "Mute Keyswitches".
4-Set "Temp Mute Open Key" to "Note #91".
_Notice that this note is part of the actual playing range of the instrument but isn't marked as such._
6-Set "Mute KS Start Key" to "Note #95".
_Notice that only 1 purple keyswitch appears on the keyboard at the bottom of Kontakt._
Workaround: If you press one of the keyswitches where they should be, they will suddenly turn purple. It's just a visual bug, but still... It happens every time you change key with this option.
I would also suggest using the actual note names (like "E6") instead of this "Note #00" thing for better clarity but maybe there's a reason for using this that I'm not aware of.
Cheers!


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## StraightAheadSamples (Aug 1, 2022)

philthevoid said:


> @StraightAheadSamples
> Hi!
> I'm trying some of the features out to learn the instrument and I found 2 more small bugs.
> Steps to reproduce:
> ...


It's on the list.

And we just pushed an update for all that wacky pitch problems in the trombones. So things should be good down there now. Other bugs are in the works for a fix later this week, we just wanted to get those trombones fixed as that was kind of a big task. These other fixes should be small and easy.


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## Rudianos (Aug 4, 2022)

Thanks for the fixed Trombone. Sounds great


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## Steve Hicks (Aug 4, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Thanks for the fixed Trombone. Sounds great


how does one get the update??


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## Robin (Aug 4, 2022)

Steve Hicks said:


> how does one get the update??


Just open up the Pulse downloader again, it will show up in there.


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## Steve Hicks (Aug 4, 2022)

Robin said:


> Just open up the Pulse downloader again, it will show up in there.


thanks!


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## Steve Hicks (Aug 5, 2022)

Can someone tell me how to trigger staccato with the trombones? Works well enough with the trumpets (and you can force it with a key switch if needed) but the bones don't seem to want to play nicely


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## puuluu (Aug 8, 2022)

Strangely, this library started to have really long loading times, like over 5 minutes per patch. It was fast when I installed it but now very slow. I have not changed anything with the computer and other libraries still load fast. Any ideas?


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## philthevoid (Aug 8, 2022)

puuluu said:


> Strangely, this library started to have really long loading times, like over 5 minutes per patch. It was fast when I installed it but now very slow. I have not changed anything with the computer and other libraries still load fast. Any ideas?


This might help possibly? I took this from the FAQ section on their website.


> My library is taking a very long time to load and/or Kontakt freezes upon opening.
> Instructions for how to fix this here: Batch re-save Instructions.


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## philthevoid (Nov 20, 2022)

I'm sorry to bring it up again, but the thump bug on the Lead Trombone's shorts is making life difficult...
Anyone found a work-around maybe?
All settings are at default in this example, just load and play using Smart Delay.


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## StraightAheadSamples (Nov 20, 2022)

philthevoid said:


> I'm sorry to bring it up again, but the thump bug on the Lead Trombone's shorts is making life difficult...
> Anyone found a work-around maybe?
> All settings are at default in this example, just load and play using Smart Delay.


Yes, thanks for the nudge on this. We have gotten a bit behind on squashing a couple of these bugs but are working to sort all of these in the next couple weeks. Sorry again for the delay.


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## bbrylow (Nov 24, 2022)

@StraightAheadSamples Is there an upgrade path to the complete horns in big Ben bundle for those of us who owned all of the individual instruments that have come out up to this point?


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