# Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings Released!



## Sonokinetic BV

We are very proud to present our take on Orchestral Strings to you.

We have spent the best part of five years working on this project and have left no stone unturned to create a product that, as a multisampled String Orchestra alone, will satisfy even the most demanding users. But this collection is so much more than that. Orchestral Strings is the culmination of all of our efforts and experience to this point. It melds together everything that we've learned about multisampling over the years, combined with our knowledge of orchestral phrases.

At its core, Orchestral Strings is a hugely capable full-divisi full-size Strings section, recorded with the fantastic Capellen Orchestra in Zlin, Czech Republic. It is edited with the utmost care to preserve all the details and character of the performances.

We covered all of the most-used articulations in up to four velocities, and we devised a 'shared tail' system for the shorts that provides you with a greater variety of round robins without unnecessarily increasing the memory load.

Poly-Legato and Auto Divisi ensure the most realistic sound imaginable. No corners were cut in making this product, and it will evolve for many years to come. In fact, we still have some surprises up our sleeves that will enhance your user experience and provide tools that are useful and fun in equal measure.

Included within the instrument are some powerful midi engines with midi import, real-time midi manipulation, a piano roll editor and midi export. The possibilities are near endless once you scratch the surface, yet very easily accessible if you just want to compose quickly.

The Runs engine will trigger and play silky smooth runs whilst you hold chord notes. Just play a start and end key and these runs will adhere to your chosen chords and transition between all the applicable notes automatically.

The Phrases engine at its core works as a sketchpad for Patterns, with the core 12 patterns auto-saved with your instrument or DAW session. Going further, a potential 12 x 12 x 12 phrases can be saved away to be shared between your instruments and projects.

These phrases are then playable in a fashion very similar to the way our Phrase-Based instruments work. You can even drag in phrases from the Phrase-Based products you already own, edit them and tweak them to your liking, vastly boosting the flexibility of this Strings instrument. You can even drag out the midi for entire played passages including any chord changes, added Harmony etc. for use in third-party instruments or for instance to add a synth layer for a hybrid sound!

Overview





Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings is compatible with the free Kontakt Player version 6.6.1 or later and is also NKS compliant

The library is available for the very special introductory price of €199.99 until the end of the 12 days of Christmas (18th December). The price will then rise to €249.90 until 7th January after which the price will be €333.33. Lots more information available at https://www.sonokinetic.net/products/classical/orchestral-strings/?ref=vic


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## filipjonathan

Looking forward to it!!


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## ThomasL

+1


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## CT

Cool!


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## ProfoundSilence

Out of nowhere!


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## Simon Lee

Any idea on pricing ? So I can save from now.


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## muk

Full divisi, that's awesome.


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## Kurosawa

Oh! This will be great!


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## AudioLoco

Wow, they went a bit risky with that groundbreaking name choice! (How is it even pronounced?)


BS apart, looking forward to checking it out


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## Kurosawa

AudioLoco said:


> Wow, they went a bit risky with that groundbreaking name choice! (How is it even pronounced?)
> 
> 
> BS apart, looking forward to checking it out


SOS I think


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## Hendrixon

AudioLoco said:


> Wow, they went a bit risky with that groundbreaking name choice! (How is it even pronounced?)
> 
> 
> BS apart, looking forward to checking it out


At first glance I thought:
"Hmmm... now that's a weird name for a string library... April"





Then I took another zip from my coffee and all is well


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## nolotrippen

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We are pleased to announce that our current plans are to release our Full Divisi Multi-Sampled "Orchestral Strings" in April of this year. Over the next couple of months, we will be releasing more information and insight. Stay tuned for further details.


I love the strings sound of Ostinato Noir. I hope they expand this patch for Orchestral Strings. Hint Hint Hint Hint Hint.


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## muziksculp

I'm sure it will sound awesome ! 

Looking forward to more info about your upcoming Strings Library.


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## jneebz

Sonokinetic BV said:


> that our current plans


Very, VERY good choice of words.


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## dzilizzi

Yay! Really looking forward to this!


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## dbudimir

Great news!!!!! I have been waiting for this library! It will be so nice to blend this with all the phrase based libraries of yours that I own!


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## markleake

Awesome... it's happening!


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## José Herring

Very interested.


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## Piotrek K.

Full divisi? Guys, you need to tell us more - articulations, features, amount of players, how divisi split works etc. Another full divisi library is coming soon and I don't want to buy the wrong one


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## Maximvs

Nice news but what a tease! Please tell more or save announcements when you are ready to disguise more information...

Peace, Max T.


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## Kuusniemi

I'm interested as well. If the sound is anything like DaCapo then I'm in.

But... Is this kind of straight forward marketing allowed these days....? I mean letting us know right away the name and instruments... :D


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## Jay Panikkar

dbudimir said:


> Great news!!!!! I have been waiting for this library! It will be so nice to blend this with all the phrase based libraries of yours that I own!


Cool idea. If they can design this new library to sit well with their phrase-based libraries, they'll add massive value to the entire line-up.


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## muziksculp

Piotrek K. said:


> Full divisi? Guys, you need to tell us more - articulations, features, amount of players, how divisi split works etc. Another full divisi library is coming soon and I don't want to buy the wrong one


You can't buy the wrong one if you buy both


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## muziksculp

Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

I'm very excited, and looking forward to your upcoming Strings Library in April. 

Meanwhile, can we expect any teaser videos, audio demos, more info., or anything about your upcoming Strings Library before its official release in April ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,
> 
> I'm very excited, and looking forward to your upcoming Strings Library in April.
> 
> Meanwhile, can we expect any teaser videos, audio demos, more info., or anything about your upcoming Strings Library before its official release in April ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


He ain't the only one! I have this on my calendar and can hardly wait!!


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## Leo

Yeah some fresh info would be great, I love Sonokinetic.


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## muziksculp

I'm curious to know if the upcoming strings library's will have an *Auto-Divisi feature* ? and *Polyphonic-Legato* ?


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## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> I'm curious to know if the upcoming strings library's will have an *Auto-Divisi feature* ? and *Polyphonic-Legato* ?


It has selectable auto/manual divisi and yes, polyphonic legato too. More details will be coming soon


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## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> It has selectable auto/manual divisi and yes, polyphonic legato too. More details will be coming soon


Awesome  

Thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to more details about it soon.


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## Evans

This isn't out yet, so I refuse to buy it at the moment.

Perhaps when it comes out, I will, because it will then be available.


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## dzilizzi

Evans said:


> This isn't out yet, so I refuse to buy it at the moment.
> 
> Perhaps when it comes out, I will, because it will then be available.


Well that's kind of rude. Just because it hasn't been released is no reason not to buy it.


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## Reid Rosefelt

In addition to sound, I think that one feature that will set the Sonokinetic Strings apart from all others will be user interface.

Based on their woodwind ensembles library (and all their other libraries) there will be a lot of extra functionality if you have an NKS keyboard equipped with light guides. Sonokinetic is one of the most innovative developers for NKS, maybe the most innovative.

Check out the videos to the Woodwinds ensembles to see what I mean.


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## muziksculp

TigerTheFrog said:


> Based on their woodwind ensembles library (and all their other libraries) there will be a lot of extra functionality if you have an NKS keyboard equipped with light guides. Sonokinetic is one of the most innovative developers for NKS, maybe the most innovative.
> 
> Check out the videos to the Woodwinds ensembles to see what I mean.


I don't use an NI brand NKS Keyboard. So this feature has zero attraction for me. For those who do use NKS keyboards, that might be nice.


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## Reid Rosefelt

muziksculp said:


> I don't use an NI brand NKS Keyboard. So this feature has zero attraction for me. For those who do use NKS keyboards, that might be nice.


Maybe the way I should have said it is that Sonokinetic creates ingenious user interfaces for all their instruments. These features work perfectly well on any keyboard, but are enhanced with NKS keyboards.


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## muziksculp

TigerTheFrog said:


> Maybe the way I should have said it is that Sonokinetic creates ingenious user interfaces for all their instruments. These features work perfectly well on any keyboard, but are enhanced with NKS keyboards.


Yes, the library will work with any keyboard, that's a given, but you were referring to advantages if you use an NKS keyboard, which I don't have/use. 

I'm hoping that the GUI design of the new Strings Library is easy on the eyes, and stimulates a smooth, and fast intuitive workflow. Not too busy to look at, yet has all the needed controls very visible, and logically placed.


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## yellow_lupine

Still no news on the horizon?


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## dzilizzi

yellow_lupine said:


> Still no news on the horizon?


They said April. They tend to release everything at once. Walkthroughs, demos, overview, etc... we might hear something closer to the date.


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## muziksculp

Hopefully the release will be on April 1st, not April 30th .


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## constaneum

muziksculp said:


> Hopefully the release will be on April 1st, not April 30th .


but once again, be prepared not to be fooled. April Fool day after all. haha


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## Sonokinetic BV

A little update for those anxious to hear more 

The instrument is turning out quite spectacularly in our humble opinion, and it has some very cool Sonokinetic tricks up its sleeve, along with the full divisi and stellar sound  The library will be available for the free Kontakt player and have full NKS compatibility


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## filipjonathan

Sonokinetic BV said:


> A little update for those anxious to hear more
> 
> The instrument is turning out quite spectacularly in our humble opinion, and it has some very cool Sonokinetic tricks up its sleeve, along with the full divisi and stellar sound  The library will be available for the free Kontakt player and have full NKS compatibility


And when will we know more?


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## Piotrek K.

Sonokinetic BV said:


> A little update for those anxious to hear more
> 
> The instrument is turning out quite spectacularly in our humble opinion, and it has some very cool Sonokinetic tricks up its sleeve, along with the full divisi and stellar sound  The library will be available for the free Kontakt player and have full NKS compatibility


Section sizes? Articulations? You must know that by know, right?


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## muziksculp

We know/hope it will be released in April.

So early, mid, or late April ? 

Can't wait to hear the new Sonokinetic Strings


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## muziksculp

I'm getting more excited every day we get closer to April. We are a week away now.


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## muk

Infos are a little slow to drizzle in. Lets see what the good folks at Sonokinetic have in store for us come April.


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## Rich4747

looking forward to this


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## muziksculp

Four more days to *April  *


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## FireGS




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## robgb

Strings.
Novel idea.


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## dbudimir

I don't think we would want an announcement today because it might only be an April fools joke. 
Tomorrow would be great though!!


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## muziksculp

It's *APRIL  

Sonokinetic Strings ? *


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## filipjonathan

I don't know why, but I have a feeling it's going to be around April 14 for some reason.


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## muziksculp

filipjonathan said:


> I don't know why, but I have a feeling it's going to be around April 14 for some reason.


Any day in April is a good day to release it. As long as they stick to their word.. 

*APRIL*


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## rottoy

I don't know, Sonokinetic might be stringing us along here.


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## muziksculp

rottoy said:


> I don't know, Sonokinetic might be stringing us along here.


Meaning ?


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## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Meaning ?


You don’t appreciate a good pun?


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## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> You don’t appreciate a good pun?


LOL...Yes, I surely do  .

I was just trying to figure out how long they will be stringing us along .


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## FireGS

So taking bets - what happens first, HOOPUS is released or we get demos/information/release of this library?


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## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> So taking bets - what happens first, HOOPUS is released or we get demos/information/release of this library?


LOL... you can also add, ... or MSS gets the 1.1 update


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## chapbot

From Feb. 1:

"Over the next couple of months, we will be releasing more information and insight. Stay tuned for further details."

And... nothing. Not looking good.


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## jbuhler

It's like making string libraries (well, orchestral libraries in general) is kind of hard.


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## nolotrippen

My expectations? Early morning freebie, followed by $99 intro for a few days, and it will sound delicious, silky like ostinato noir.


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## Rich4747

I have a good feeling about this library. but I am eating some ben and jerry's icecream it could just be that.


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## muziksculp

Given we have less than two weeks left in April, I predict the release is going to be on April 30th. 

This way, they can prove me wrong, and release it earlier.


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## prodigalson

muziksculp said:


> This way, they can prove me wrong, and release it earlier.


If they release it later they’ll prove u wrong too...


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## muziksculp

prodigalson said:


> If they release it later they’ll prove u wrong too...


Please don't give them any ideas.


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## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Please don't give them any ideas.


I’m sure all these developers routinely consult VI-C and ask: how can we most torment @muziksculp?


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## emilio_n

I hope they show something before April 20... With a limited budget, I am doing my numbers.


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## lucky909091

nolotrippen said:


> My expectations? Early morning freebie, followed by $99 intro for a few days, and it will sound delicious, silky like ostinato noir.


This seems to be a pious wish in my opinion.... Remember the Woodwinds.
And these strings will have polyphonic legato.
I assume that the intro offer will be 199 - 299 Dollars.


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## muk

lucky909091 said:


> I assume that the intro offer will be 199 - 299 Dollars.


For a flagship orchestral strings library with real divisi that is very low. Too low to be realistic in my opinion. Their woodwind ensembles library costs 240€ (≈290$) already. Woodwinds Ensembles have 12 players, the orchestral strings anywhere from around 40 to 78 players. Woodwinds Ensembles are 4 sections. The strings are five sections, with divisi 10 sections. If they do two half sections and one full, then it's 15 sections (Vl 1 full, Vl 1 divisi group A, Vl 1 divisi group B etc). If they have the same amount of articulations as the woodwinds, that's more than double to almost three times the amount of samples to edit.

Thus, my guess for the intro price is 499$, and then regular price 100$ higher. But hey, we are all just guessing at the moment. Maybe in two weeks time we'll know more.


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## nolotrippen

lucky909091 said:


> This seems to be a pious wish in my opinion.... Remember the Woodwinds.
> And these strings will have polyphonic legato.
> I assume that the intro offer will be 199 - 299 Dollars.


pious?


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## Stringtree

I wake up quite early, and can appear pious as I need to be for a freebie.


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## Rich4747

well I am on a second pint of ben and Jerrys, but still very excited to see what's coming.


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## Sonokinetic BV

jbuhler said:


> It's like making string libraries (well, orchestral libraries in general) is kind of hard.


it's also fun though can't wait to show you what we've been up to - we're definitely in the polishing stage now!


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## Piotrek K.

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's also fun though can't wait to show you what we've been up to - we're definitely in the polishing stage now!


Still aiming for April?


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## Sonokinetic BV

Piotrek K. said:


> Still aiming for April?


yes April is still the aim


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## Aldunate

are you considering Dorico expression maps?


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## Aldunate

Piotrek K. said:


> Full divisi? Guys, you need to tell us more - articulations, features, amount of players, how divisi split works etc. Another full divisi library is coming soon and I don't want to buy the wrong one


What other Divisi library are you referring to?


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## Piotrek K.

Aldunate said:


> What other Divisi library are you referring to?


PM'd you, I think it's against forum rules to talk about other brands in Commercial Announcements.


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## muk

Sonokinetic BV said:


> we're definitely in the polishing stage now!





Piotrek K. said:


> Still aiming for April?



Might be early May then. Native Instruments states that encoding a library for Kontakt/NKS 'takes about 2 weeks':






Licensing







www.native-instruments.com





As Sonokinetic is currently polishing the library, that means that it's not yet at NI for encoding.

Or maybe NI is faster this time.


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## muziksculp

But... https://vi-control.net/community/th...ounces-orchestral-strings.105121/post-4807180


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## muk

muziksculp said:


> But... https://vi-control.net/community/th...ounces-orchestral-strings.105121/post-4807180


Yes. Not trying to contradict Sonokinetic. Obviously they know best what the status of their library is. 'April is the aim' means that a release in April is still possible. I'm just saying that with NIs encoding time it could be a close call.


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## Markrs

muk said:


> Yes. Not trying to contradict Sonokinetic. Obviously they know best what the status of their library is. 'April is the aim' means that a release in April is still possible. I'm just saying that with NIs encoding time it could be a close call.


I think you can send it to NI earlier when it is in beta, NI can then do their work whilst you finish it and you then just update the library. I think @Mike Greene mentioned doing it that way for his latest library (though I could be wrong).


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## muk

Markrs said:


> I think you can send it to NI earlier when it is in beta, NI can then do their work whilst you finish it and you then just update the library. I think @Mike Greene mentioned doing it that way for his latest library (though I could be wrong).


Ah, cool  In that case April is very much realistic


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## constaneum

Maybe 22nd April too. We already have 2 big brothers releasing things on 22nd. Hehe


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## Mike Greene

Markrs said:


> I think you can send it to NI earlier when it is in beta, NI can then do their work whilst you finish it and you then just update the library. I think @Mike Greene mentioned doing it that way for his latest library (though I could be wrong).


I used to do it that way, where I'd send an early beta to NI for encoding, then just update on my end, but starting with Sunset Strings, especially since I use Native Access to host, I can't do that anymore. I tried, but they spotted what I was doing, so I had to finish a legit release in order to get it encoded.

I can't speak for Sonokinetic, though. Each of our companies have our own little ways we try to do things, so their mileage may vary.


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## Rich4747

Hello Sonokinetic, can you give us 7 words to describe your new strings library and would innovation be one of the first words?


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## rottoy

Rich4747 said:


> would innovation be one of them?


That's a weird way to spell 'violas'.


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## nolotrippen

We're running out of April…


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## Sonokinetic BV

Rich4747 said:


> Hello Sonokinetic, can you give us 7 words to describe your new strings library and would innovation be one of the first words?


I guess my choice of words would be: Beauty, Innovation, Realism, Inspiration, Sound, Feel, Evolution 



> I used to do it that way, where I'd send an early beta to NI for encoding, then just update on my end, but starting with Sunset Strings, especially since I use Native Access to host, I can't do that anymore. I tried, but they spotted what I was doing, so I had to finish a legit release in order to get it encoded.


Yes, we've hit a small roadblock there too now - *we're not going to make April after all*, it'll be well worth the wait though - and it shouldn't be long now!


> We're running out of April…


we're very much aware of that we're committed to getting this right though - better to keep at it a bit longer and have the final bugs ironed out so paying customers can have just the joy and inspiration!


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## Leslie Fuller

Sonokinetic BV said:


> I guess my choice of words would be: Beauty, Innovation, Realism, Inspiration, Sound, Feel, Evolution
> 
> 
> Yes, we've hit a small roadblock there too now - *we're not going to make April after all*, it'll be well worth the wait though - and it shouldn't be long now!
> 
> we're very much aware of that we're committed to getting this right though - better to keep at it a bit longer and have the final bugs ironed out so paying customers can have just the joy and inspiration!


Communication! Thank you @Sonokinetic BV. We understand (hopefully).


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## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Yes, we've hit a small roadblock there too now - *we're not going to make April after all*, it'll be well worth the wait though - and it shouldn't be long now!


OK, so.. May it is then. Good Luck, hopefully you will iron out all the rough edges before the official release, and an early Congratulations !

I'm very optimistic, and getting more excited about your upcoming Strings library.


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## chapbot

Sonokinetic BV said:


> I guess my choice of words would be: Beauty, Innovation, Realism, Inspiration, Sound, Feel, Evolution
> 
> 
> Yes, we've hit a small roadblock there too now - *we're not going to make April after all*, it'll be well worth the wait though - and it shouldn't be long now!
> 
> we're very much aware of that we're committed to getting this right though - better to keep at it a bit longer and have the final bugs ironed out so paying customers can have just the joy and inspiration!


Since you aren't meeting your April deadline perhaps you would consider releasing a small demo for those of us who check the forums every hour to see if it has been released ♥️😆


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## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Since you aren't meeting your April deadline perhaps you would consider releasing a small demo for those of us who check the forums every hour to see if it has been released ♥️😆


I think they are nervous about posting any demos before the official release date.

Don't forget they want to make sure they get a seal of approval from the VI-C Legato Police  Which is not an easy task. 

LOL.. Joking aside, they mentioned they have decided internally to not release any info, demos, or videos before it is officially released, so I doubt they will change this, just because they are delaying the release to next month. We just have to be patient, and be optimistic.


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## Sovereign

muziksculp said:


> Don't forget they want to make sure they get a seal of approval from the VI-C Legato Police  Which is not an easy task.


We are watching with great interest.


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## muziksculp

Sovereign said:


> We are watching with great interest.


LOL... Love your new Avatar. 

OK, You are now officially the head of the *VI-C Legato Police Dept*.

I'm sure you will perform your job in a very professional manner, and make sure that you give your seal of approval to only the libraries that qualify to pass your super high quality Legato standards.

Thanks for your valuable service to the VI-Control Community.


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## Toecutter

Sovereign said:


> We are watching with great interest.


Best avatar ever XD


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## Toecutter

Sonokinetic BV said:


> I guess my choice of words would be: Beauty, Innovation, Realism, Inspiration, Sound, Feel, Evolution


Looking forward to it! How about "versatility"? Can it cover many styles?


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## LamaRose

Sonokinetic BV said:


> I guess my choice of words would be: Beauty, Innovation, Realism, Inspiration, Sound, Feel, Evolution.



You had me at "beauty." And yes, I look just like Tom Cruise yearning love.


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## dbudimir

LamaRose said:


> You had me at "beauty." And yes, I look just like Tom Cruise yearning love.



Your message will self destruct in 5 seconds.


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## LamaRose

dbudimir said:


> Your message will self destruct in 5 seconds.


Touché... that's what "she" said.


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## Rich4747

Sonokinetic BV said:


> I guess my choice of words would be: Beauty, Innovation, Realism, Inspiration, Sound, Feel, Evolution
> 
> 
> Yes, we've hit a small roadblock there too now - *we're not going to make April after all*, it'll be well worth the wait though - and it shouldn't be long now!
> 
> we're very much aware of that we're committed to getting this right though - better to keep at it a bit longer and have the final bugs ironed out so paying customers can have just the joy and inspiration!


thanks for the update. The 7 words say it all. from my point of view take all the time you need to polish it.


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## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> I think they are nervous about posting any demos before the official release date.
> 
> Don't forget they want to make sure they get a seal of approval from the VI-C Legato Police  Which is not an easy task.
> 
> LOL.. Joking aside, they mentioned they have decided internally to not release any info, demos, or videos before it is officially released, so I doubt they will change this, just because they are delaying the release to next month. We just have to be patient, and be optimistic.


I know they said that but since they missed the deadline I'm just asking for them to reconsider a little bit.

Or maybe they could divulge some of the specs. For instance, I'd like to know just how dry the library can get... What kind of mics... ect.

I don't really see the purpose in delaying demos. People will either hear them and like it or hear them and not like it. If I hear it now and don't like it then I don't have to keep checking the forum twice a day to see if it's been released LOL.

If I hear the demo and really think it will work in my music then I can delay a project in anticipation of the release.


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## Jish

We do it to ourselves as 'people' in general, I suppose- nudging developers of every size and stature with the tried and failed, "_Well when is it gonna be out_?" etc. Most eventually feel passively pressured to offer release dates sometimes _way_ too early in the scheme of things, and the hearts keep breakin'. 

At this point I try to see it for what it is- when a specific date/timeframe is mentioned on anything I could remotely care about, I just add another year to whatever is written- in this case, in my head it read 'April 2022'. Unfortunately this little game has been surprisingly accurate a decent fraction of the time.


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## chapbot

Jish said:


> We do it to ourselves as 'people' in general, I suppose- nudging developers of every size and stature with the tried and failed, "_Well when is it gonna be out_?" etc. Most eventually feel passively pressured to offer release dates sometimes _way_ too early in the scheme of things, and the hearts keep breakin'.
> 
> At this point I try to see it for what it is- when a specific date/timeframe is mentioned on anything I could remotely care about, I just add another year to whatever is written- in this case, in my head it read 'April 2022'. Unfortunately this little game has been surprisingly accurate a decent fraction of the time.


Ain't that the truth LOL whenever a developer gives a date I usually add 6 months 🤣


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## Sonokinetic BV

Toecutter said:


> Looking forward to it! How about "versatility"? Can it cover many styles?


it is not themed, it should be able to feel at home in any style


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## Toecutter

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it is not themed, it should be able to feel at home in any style


Can't wait!  any idea when you'll have a walkthrough or quick patches playthrough?


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## Go To 11

Sovereign said:


> We are watching with great interest.


Probably the best reply I've ever seen on here.


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## Leon Willett

Does it have cowbell? Bottle mic?


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## dzilizzi

Leon Willett said:


> Does it have cowbell? Bottle mic?


Do cowbells usually show up in string libraries? If so, I seem to be missing a lot of samples.....


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## Jett Hitt

dzilizzi said:


> Do cowbells usually show up in string libraries? If so, I seem to be missing a lot of samples.....


I have several string libraries that I am pretty sure were recorded on cowbells.


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## molemac

You can never get enough cowbell


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## Mike Fox

Is it safe to assume that this will be phrase based?


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## chapbot

Mike Fox said:


> Is it safe to assume that this will be phrase based?


It is not phrase based.


----------



## artomatic

The sound of their phrase-based strings are very nice and fat. 
I wonder how the samples will sound in comparison?
I find strings to have "thinner" sound in sampled (in this case) string libraries than the real recorded ones...


----------



## nolotrippen

artomatic said:


> The sound of their phrase-based strings are very nice and fat.
> I wonder how the samples will sound in comparison?
> I find strings to have "thinner" sound in sampled (in this case) string libraries than the real recorded ones...


Their woodwinds library sounds amazing. BUT! No piccolo, alto flute, bass clarinet, contrabassoon, etc. Hope they add that in the future.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

artomatic said:


> The sound of their phrase-based strings are very nice and fat.
> I wonder how the samples will sound in comparison?
> I find strings to have "thinner" sound in sampled (in this case) string libraries than the real recorded ones...


We are very pleased with the sound and we have been working hard to make it sound almost indistinguishable from the phrase-based products. 
Of course it is all recorded in the same hall in Zlin with the Capellen Orchestra, like the phrase based products.


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We are very pleased with the sound and we have been working hard to make it sound almost indistinguishable from the phrase-based products.
> Of course it is all recorded in the same hall in Zlin with the Capellen Orchestra, like the phrase based products.


Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

Thanks for the wonderful feedback. 

imho. if you were able to replicate the sonic signature of your phrase string libraries into this mulitsampled Strings library, you have achieved what I have been wishing for. I can't wait to hear it in action. 

I'm super excited about this release, and hope that you have it nicely polished for us, and ready to roll out soon.  

All The Best,
Muziksculp


----------



## Piotrek K.

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Of course it is all recorded in the same hall in Zlin with the Capellen Orchestra, like the phrase based products.


Can I safely assume that you've went with one of those strings configuration and not some huge, 20 1st violins or similar "epic" setup?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Piotrek K. said:


> Can I safely assume that you've went with one of those strings configuration and not some huge, 20 1st violins or similar "epic" setup?


it's the large strings configuration, recorded in Divisi


----------



## muk

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's the large strings configuration, recorded in Divisi


Fantastic! Can you already tell us how the divisi is set up? Will there be two groups of 7-6-5-4-3 each, and one full ensemble? Or just the two groups that you combine to get the full ensemble? Or a different configuration to these?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's the large strings configuration, recorded in Divisi





muk said:


> Fantastic! Can you already tell us how the divisi is set up? Will there be two groups of 7-6-5-4-3 each, and one full ensemble? Or just the two groups that you combine to get the full ensemble? Or a different configuration to these?


it's just the two groups per section that can be combined in the instrument using auto divisi, or you can select them separately if you prefer.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's just the two groups per section that can be combined in the instrument using auto divisi, or you can select them separately if you prefer.


So in essence we will get two individual smaller divisions per section - I'm hyped :D


----------



## Pietro

If I remember correctly, it's basically done like in real divisi.

Div. A are the outside players of each desk - closer to the audience, and div. B are the inside players.

- Piotr


----------



## muk

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's just the two groups per section that can be combined in the instrument using auto divisi, or you can select them separately if you prefer.


Thank you for the info. That's an awesome setup for me, just what I was hoping for!


----------



## Batrawi

is the legato fingered or bowed? is the full legato transition preserved & length-controllable?


----------



## Kurosawa

Do we get some measured trills? :D
For Philip Glass like playing?


----------



## CT

Sounds very promising so far. I'm sure it's a normal string seating arrangement, but I wish somebody would do the older style of, left to right, 1st violins, celli/basses behind, violas, 2nd violins.


----------



## muziksculp

I was listening to Sonokinetic's Largo Library, and the strings sound large sections, symphonic size, very lush, and warm. Maybe this is what the upcoming Strings library will be similar to sonically ?


----------



## Toecutter

Do we have a price yet?


----------



## muziksculp

Toecutter said:


> Do we have a price yet?


NO. 

No price, no info., no demos, no videos, no release date.


----------



## muziksculp

Hopefully they will be able to release it early May, then we will get all the goodies on the release day. 

Info/specs, walkthrough, and tutorial videos, a super cool video trailer, lots of fantastic sounding audio demos, and a very attractive Intro price to make us buy it. 

I have a feeling this is going to be a super wonderful sounding strings library. We just have to be patient, which I usually don't have enough of.


----------



## muziksculp

Pietro said:


> If I remember correctly, it's basically done like in real divisi.
> 
> Div. A are the outside players of each desk - closer to the audience, and div. B are the inside players.
> 
> - Piotr


I'm sure we are going to hear some of your demos for this upcoming Strings Library


----------



## VSriHarsha

Large String sections! That’s cool! I think I might have a look at. How many articulations to expect @Sonokinetic BV ?

Oh and how many dynamic layers. I know I do understand not many would look for velocity based library but if can be useful as mod wheel & velocity based, I am sure you’ll see some large numbers in sales, than usual. But I also realize it’s NOT AT ALL easy to come up with. I appreciate your efforts & I am sure it’ll stand unique.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> NO.
> 
> No price, no info., no demos, no videos, no release date.


🤣 You are the best 🤣


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> NO.
> 
> No price, no info., no demos, no videos, no release date.


it's basically vaporware 

We are trying this the Apple way:
- all the info in one presentation showing what this thing can do for you that is hard to achieve in different ways and why you need it in your life
- fantastic demos and videos
- available NOW {at the time of the presentation }
- wait for it ... 
- what? Priced at Only x??


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's basically vaporware
> 
> We are trying this the Apple way:
> - all the info in one presentation showing what this thing can do for you that is hard to achieve in different ways and why you need it in your life
> - fantastic demos and videos
> - available NOW {at the time of the presentation }
> - wait for it ...
> - what? Priced at Only x??


LOL. Yes, I noticed your Apple approach, which is a smart approach, honestly, I really don't care how you go about it.

What really matters is the end product, and pricing, and I'm very confident that it will not disappoint, but rather impress ! 

My wallet is ready, whenever you guys are ready to release it. I know you will make many of us very happy with both the library, and the price.

Wish you all the best.


----------



## Supremo

Can we expect the release to happen in May? Or it may take longer?


----------



## Piotrek K.

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We are trying this the Apple way:


Hope it applies only to marketing and not prices or design choices


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Supremo said:


> Can we expect the release to happen in May? Or it may take longer?


I can't see it not being May at this point


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> I can't see it not being May at this point


Hopefully you are not aiming for May 31st.


----------



## Markrs

Piotrek K. said:


> Hope it applies only to marketing and not prices or design choices


How much do I hate this issue. One of the worst design choices I have ever seen, where you can't use the mouse it is needs to charge. Especially when the could have put the charging port of the side of the mouse.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Markrs said:


> How much do I hate this issue. One of the worst design choices I have ever seen, where you can't use the mouse it is needs to charge. Especially when the could have put the charging port of the side of the mouse.


it's a classic  you'd think it was a parody if you didn't know better


----------



## Pietro

muziksculp said:


> I'm sure we are going to hear some of your demos for this upcoming Strings Library


I think so!

- Piotr


----------



## Toecutter

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We are trying this the Apple way:
> - all the info in one presentation showing what this thing can do for you that is hard to achieve in different ways and why you need it in your life
> - fantastic demos and videos
> - available NOW {at the time of the presentation }
> - wait for it ...
> - what? Priced at Only x??


other devs: keep the trend going!! Kudos to Sonokinetic, now it's up for us to take this thread to 50 pages minimum before release, I believe in you Vicontrol! Sonokinetic earned it


----------



## FireGS

Toecutter said:


> now it's up for us to take this thread to 50 pages minimum before release


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

Is your upcoming Strings library recorded in the same hall as the one you used to record your Largo Library Strings ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Markrs

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,
> 
> Is your upcoming Strings library recorded in the same hall as the one you used to record your Largo Library Strings ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


I think they are all recorded in the Zlin Concert Hall, they even give some IRs for the hall as well, which is great









Zlin Impulse Responses


The attachment below provides the IR's for the Zlin Concert Hall where we recorded our orchestral libraries. Please note that these are not the same as those provided by Altiverb. If you have Altiverb, please use those instead.




support.sonokinetic.net







Sonokinetic BV said:


> We are very pleased with the sound and we have been working hard to make it sound almost indistinguishable from the phrase-based products.
> Of course it is all recorded in the same hall in Zlin with the Capellen Orchestra, like the phrase based products.


----------



## CT

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,
> 
> Is your upcoming Strings library recorded in the same hall as the one you used to record your Largo Library Strings ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp





Sonokinetic BV said:


> Of course it is all recorded in the same hall in Zlin with the Capellen Orchestra, like the phrase based products.


----------



## muziksculp

Thanks.

I was just checking if the Strings of Largo were recorded in the Zlin Hall. I guess the answer is Yes.

I really like the way the Largo Strings sound, if the upcoming Strings have that same character, it will be an amazing library !


----------



## HardyP

Markrs said:


> I think they are all recorded in the Zlin Concert Hall, they even give some IRs for the hall as well, which is great
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zlin Impulse Responses
> 
> 
> The attachment below provides the IR's for the Zlin Concert Hall where we recorded our orchestral libraries. Please note that these are not the same as those provided by Altiverb. If you have Altiverb, please use those instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> support.sonokinetic.net


Didn‘t knew that, thanks a lot for pointing us to this resource!!!


----------



## Aldunate

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's the large strings configuration, recorded in Divisi


Romantic power!


----------



## Aldunate

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's a classic  you'd think it was a parody if you didn't know better


Please make Expression Maps for Dorico!


----------



## Lode_Runner

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We are trying this the Apple way:
> - what? Priced at Only x??


That doesn't sound like the Apple I know


----------



## doctoremmet

Markrs said:


> I think they are all recorded in the Zlin Concert Hall, they even give some IRs for the hall as well, which is great
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zlin Impulse Responses
> 
> 
> The attachment below provides the IR's for the Zlin Concert Hall where we recorded our orchestral libraries. Please note that these are not the same as those provided by Altiverb. If you have Altiverb, please use those instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> support.sonokinetic.net


Same hall is used by 8Dio so those IRs indeed are a nice touch!


----------



## LamaRose

Me thinks this thread doth unravel... truly, a demo is worth a thousand questions.


----------



## JonSolo

Being a HUGE fan of Sonokinetic for years, I see no reason NOT to take this thread up to 100 pages in the next few days. Their generosity over the years is unsurpassed (I mean who gives out thousands of free copies of a new release?)! 

This is a direction I was hoping we would see from them one day. I love the phrase libraries and the Ostinatos are spectacular. However, I was hoping for some "playable" orchestral libraries from them (I regret not checking out their woodwinds over the years seeing as how I include those instruments in so much of my work).

Anxiously awaiting this one!


----------



## Toecutter

doctoremmet said:


> Same hall is used by 8Dio so those IRs indeed are a nice touch!


Damn doc, you are right! I never connected the dots, these impulses are even more useful now


----------



## Toecutter

JonSolo said:


> Their generosity over the years is unsurpassed (I mean who gives out thousands of free copies of a new release?)!


And we are talking top instruments, not random leftovers they put together in 5 minutes to promote other stuff. Other dev worthy of  is Spitfire and the Labs instruments, amazing stuff for free!


----------



## prodigalson

doctoremmet said:


> Same hall is used by 8Dio so those IRs indeed are a nice touch!


which products did 8dio record at Zlin?


----------



## markleake

prodigalson said:


> which products did 8dio record at Zlin?


Sorry to be that guy... but can you please take discussion about other companies to a different thread please. This is the commercial thread for SK's string release.


----------



## LamaRose

markleake said:


> Sorry to be that guy... but can you please take discussion about other companies to a different thread please. This is the commercial thread for SK's string release.


I believe that ethos has gone out the back door, down the shitter... already brought this up in another commercial thread. 

What the hell, let's talk pantyhose in this thread.


----------



## dzilizzi

LamaRose said:


> I believe that ethos has gone out the back door, down the shitter... already brought this up in another commercial thread.
> 
> What the hell, let's talk pantyhose in this thread.


Chocolate or nothing!


----------



## prodigalson

markleake said:


> Sorry to be that guy... but can you please take discussion about other companies to a different thread please. This is the commercial thread for SK's string release.


Ok, ok. maybe talk to the guy who brought up the other company in the 1st place rather than the guy simply challenging his comment? but point taken


----------



## LamaRose

prodigalson said:


> Ok, ok. maybe talk to the guy who brought up the other company in the 1st place rather than the guy simply challenging his comment? but point taken


Not aimed at you... just chiming in, in agreement.


----------



## wwwm

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's just the two groups per section that can be combined in the instrument using auto divisi, or you can select them separately if you prefer.


That's disappointing. "Full Divisi" to me means down to the individual players, not just half sections.


----------



## Markrs

wwwm said:


> That's disappointing. "Full Divisi" to me means down to the individual players, not just half sections.


I always though full divisi just meant each string section was split into an A and B section. Never seen any library go down to individual player level. That would seem very impractical thing to do in a sample library


----------



## FireGS

Markrs said:


> I always though full divisi just meant each string section was split into an A and B section. Never seen any library go down to individual player level. That would seem very impractical thing to do in a sample library


Yeah, that.


----------



## clonewar

Markrs said:


> I always though full divisi just meant each string section was split into an A and B section. Never seen any library go down to individual player level. That would seem very impractical thing to do in a sample library


It could be done down to the player level in a dry recording environment....Like another ‘Dimension’.

For me, in practice you really don’t need more than the A and B split sections for divisi writing. Definitely looking forward to more info on this release.


----------



## wwwm

Markrs said:


> I always though full divisi just meant each string section was split into an A and B section. Never seen any library go down to individual player level. That would seem very impractical thing to do in a sample library


That's Aaron Venture's plan for Infinite Strings. A library like that would be incredibly useful for some contemporary styles. Since there's no current way to easily fine-tune section sizes besides Noteperformer, I'd think there'd be a decent market, too. I've seen plenty of scores that have divisi down to single players, but there's no good way to do a mockup of that.


----------



## Toecutter

wwwm said:


> I've seen plenty of scores that have divisi down to single players, but there's no good way to do a mockup of that.


Are you talking about big orchestral film music? Two part divisi is very common, three part too... but I can't think of any big scores that have divisi down to single players (not talking about small chamber scores of course XD)


----------



## bbrylow

wwwm said:


> That's disappointing. "Full Divisi" to me means down to the individual players, not just half sections.


Full Divisi is generally a split between the A section and the B section. I have not seen anyone that has done it to the individual player level unless you are using some thing like Divisimate in order to create your own sections and with that you can configure the sections anyway you want them. From my perspective that’s the entire reason that software like that was created was to solve the problem of customizing how you want things arranged.


----------



## Piano Pete

As soon as you start splitting up desks, you are probably better off using solo instruments—anyways—instead of a section based library. Trying to sample all of these subdivisions and slam it all into a single kontakt library is easy to ask for as a user, but it is hell for development. This is usually when developers will split things up into sub-patches, but most commercial users do not even want this.

That being said, you could just adjust the volume by some consistent yet arbitrarily determined amount as you increase the number of splits—to accommodate for the increased voice count and volume with x-number of players. 

This works well for mock-ups, especially if the sampled sections are thin sounding to begin with. No one will know the difference at the end, and if your music's integrity rides on the sonic quality _of_ the divisi you wrote, you may wish to re-evaluate _what_ you wrote. _La Mer_ still sounds good no matter how many players are in the string section: it is structurally sound in of itself.

I think people get too caught up with the voice to player ratio of samples when composing divisi. Live players will self balance anyways. That is to say, a standard violin 1 section with a single divisi can still sound like your violin 1 legato patch x2. They are really good at doing this. Yes, there is eventually a sonic difference if you split enough times, but who's to say what that point is? Because, it will be different from ensemble to ensemble and context.

TLDR: Find the library(ies) you like, write the line you want, and sculpt your cc and volume curves depending on what you are writing. Try to make it sound the way it should, or the way you want: audiences (music and film) will not care and at the end of the day most people only care if it sounds cool. 

If you do not know what a section should sound like with a given line/context, reference other pieces of music. If you are writing contemporary-classical music, samples will most likely disappoint anyways, so do the best you can.


----------



## Getsumen

Would anyone ever need single instrument divisi lol?

And now observe as my music turns into a full 16 part arrangement!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Getsumen said:


> Would anyone ever need single instrument divisi lol?
> 
> And now observe as my music turns into a full 16 part arrangement!


Ideally we all just want a real orchestra at our fingertips... Would be very cool if you actually had individual performances from each player that would work together. So much comes into play then though, not least all the player interaction when they actually play together etc. And then we would also need a big technological leap to power all of that... Maybe some day


----------



## Kurosawa

Oh i can't wait!


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Craig Sharmat

Not to derail this thread but this guy was way ahead of everyone. With current computers this system could now work...


----------



## muziksculp

Isn't this what Divisimate can do ?


----------



## Rich4747

muziksculp said:


> Isn't this what Divisimate can do ?


I like divisimate. When I turn it off, things get muddy and midi like.


----------



## Craig Sharmat

muziksculp said:


> Isn't this what Divisimate can do ?


Love Divisimate but no, this was recorded 2 chairs at a time, anyway this can be a thread in sample talk if you wish to continue, I don't wish to divert Sonokinetic's thread any further.


----------



## Evans

I would love for this thread to get back on track... with some new details on the release.


----------



## FireGS

Craig Sharmat said:


> Not to derail this thread but this guy was way ahead of everyone. With current computers this system could now work...



Whoa whoa whoa, a mod going against forum rules?


----------



## Craig Sharmat

Bad mod!, slaps own hand.


----------



## muziksculp

Evans said:


> I would love for this thread to get back on track... with some new details on the release.


Still waiting, and we are not going to get any details about this library before the official release, so Waiting is the name of the game  Not the most exciting thing to do.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Still waiting, and we are not going to get any details about this library before the official release, so Waiting is the name of the game  Not the most exciting thing to do.


The only tiny tidbit they offer makes me very happy: I don't want a large string section so I'm glad you can separate the divisi (playing half the section from more of a chamber sound.) I'm just curious how dry it can be with close mics.


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> I'm just curious how dry it can be with close mics.


We won't know until it's released, or when you buy it


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> We won't know until it's released, or when you buy it





chapbot said:


> The only tiny tidbit they offer makes me very happy: I don't want a large string section so I'm glad you can separate the divisi (playing half the section from more of a chamber sound.) I'm just curious how dry it can be with close mics.


the close mics are on the stage about 1 to 1,5 meter away from the players. There is not a huge tail on those samples, but of course there is color of the hall.


----------



## PeterN

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Ideally we all just want a real orchestra at our fingertips... Would be very cool if you actually had individual performances from each player that would work together. So much comes into play then though, not least all the player interaction when they actually play together etc. And then we would also need a big technological leap to power all of that... Maybe some day


Hey Sonokinetic.

A bit out of topic maybe, but have you guys done any tests regarding how well your (phrase) libraries do on external 7200 rpm drives compared to external SSD? Can you notice any differences - is there any rule out there.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

PeterN said:


> Hey Sonokinetic.
> 
> A bit out of topic maybe, but have you guys done any tests regarding how well your (phrase) libraries do on external 7200 rpm drives compared to external SSD? Can you notice any differences - is there any rule out there.


The initial load of selected phrases will be slower than using an ssd, but those libraries don't stream the sample data while playing, so in terms of playing performance there should be no noticeable difference


----------



## Kurosawa

I hope it gets released any time soon 
Looking into this thread every three hours :D


----------



## Aldunate

Are you doing Dorico expression maps? Please!


----------



## Kurosawa

Ohhh!


----------



## Go To 11

Kurosawa said:


> Ohhh!



Good Strings Come to Those Who Wait


----------



## Ciochi

No fantastic promotion on, I don't know, Capriccio and maximo as you did for Grosso? As launch event of this one, maybe take this and you have 50% coupon on those?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Ciochi said:


> No fantastic promotion on, I don't know, Capriccio and maximo as you did for Grosso? As launch event of this one, maybe take this and you have 50% coupon on those?


can't confirm nor deny any upcoming sales - just make sure you subscribe to our newsletter and/or watch the forum in the next few days...it is Spring after all


----------



## yellow_lupine

Any info regarding the included articulations?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

yellow_lupine said:


> Any info regarding the included articulations?


all that will be unveiled in one fell swoop, so bear with us a little longer


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> all that will be unveiled in one fell swoop, so bear with us a little longer


I have been bearing with you since April


----------



## Frederick

My guess is they are going to be te next partner sale at Native Instruments, like last year (end of April).

My ideal sale would be:

Another 70% off bundle and this time with Sotto, Minimal, Woodwinds, Ostinato Woodwinds, Ostinato Brass, The Watchmaker. And 30% off on the new strings library. 

Odds of the bundle not containing too much that I already have are not good at all. So it's probably going to be 50% off on individual items. Hopefully they will add a few titles to the NI list that I don't have yet. If not, then there's plenty of other Sonokinetic sales: the summer sale, BF and the 12 days of Christmas sale. So it will be good no matter what's coming on sale soon.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Frederick said:


> My ideal sale would be:
> 
> Another 70% off bundle and this time with Sotto, Minimal, Woodwinds, Ostinato Woodwinds, Ostinato Brass, The Watchmaker. And 30% off on the new strings library.


you've put some thought into this


----------



## nolotrippen

Sonokinetic BV said:


> you've put some thought into this


When are you coming out with a woodwind extension library (piccolo, alto flute, bass clarinet, etc.)?


----------



## dbudimir

nolotrippen said:


> When are you coming out with a woodwind extension library (piccolo, alto flute, bass clarinet, etc.)?


 
Hang on now! HaHaHa…..Let them finish and release the strings we are waiting for.


----------



## nolotrippen

dbudimir said:


> Hang on now! HaHaHa…..Let them finish and release the strings we are waiting for.


Been waiting for the strings, but waiting for the expanded woodwinds much longer


----------



## Toecutter

You guys bumping this thread without any audio examples or more details about the release are pure evil...


----------



## karender

nolotrippen said:


> Been waiting for the strings, but waiting for the expanded woodwinds much longer


Honestly, I'm not interested in ensemble woodwinds. They are releasing divisi strings, only individually sampled woodwind library could complement that.


----------



## Toecutter

karender said:


> Honestly, I'm not interested in ensemble woodwinds. They are releasing divisi strings, only individually sampled woodwind library could complement that.


If Sonokinetic would tackle woodwinds again I'm sure they would do individual instruments, like many of them!

1 piccolo
3 flutes
1 alto flute
1 bass flute
2 oboes (bass oboe too?)
1 cor anglais
2 clarinets (Eb clarinet too?)
1 bass clarinet
1 contrabass clarinet
2 bassoons
1 contrabassoon


----------



## nolotrippen

Toecutter said:


> You guys bumping this thread without any audio examples or more details about the release are pure evil...


Thank you.


----------



## Go To 11

Ask and you shall receive, it seems.






12 Days of Christmas 2021 - Sonokinetic - Sample libraries and Virtual Instruments


Sonokinetic sampling high quality and affordable virtual instruments. Unique and one of a kind sample libraries. For composers, producers and sound designers. Original and authentic sample collections from ancient musical cultures and forgotten historical music heritage. Cinematic sampling and...




www.sonokinetic.net


----------



## FireGS

I'd argue that the strings wont be released before May 16th, then. Hmm.


----------



## Ciochi

Finally! What do you suggest over Grosso, that I already own, for trailer music? Capriccio or Maximo? I tend to go to Capriccio, but I'm open to suggestions.


----------



## Go To 11

FireGS said:


> I'd argue that the strings wont be released before May 16th, then. Hmm.


Or they arrive mid-sale, so we're tempted to add some more great discounts into the cart...?!


----------



## artomatic

Me thinks they're waiting for NI at this point.


----------



## rrichard63

Vivace was discontinued (or at least disappeared from the website) some time ago, but is now listed among the sale items with a price of 0.00 euros. But I think this is a mistake, because clicking on "buy now" does not add it to your cart. Too bad, because I was disappointed when Vivace disappeared before I had a chance to include it in one of my shopping sprees.


----------



## FireGS

artomatic said:


> Me thinks they're waiting for NI at this point.


Sounds familiar. I wonder at what point developers can start charging interest to NI for delaying their product?


----------



## RonOrchComp

FireGS said:


> Sounds familiar. I wonder at what point developers can start charging interest to NI for delaying their product?


I wonder at what point _composers_ can start charging interest to NI for delaying a developers' product?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

rrichard63 said:


> Vivace was discontinued (or at least disappeared from the website) some time ago, but is now listed among the sale items with a price of 0.00 euros. But I think this is a mistake, because clicking on "buy now" does not add it to your cart. Too bad, because I was disappointed when Vivace disappeared before I had a chance to include it in one of my shopping sprees.


I bought Vivaci and Tutti when they were first released, they’re real gems. I still use them to this day.


----------



## Toecutter

Go To 11 said:


> Or they arrive mid-sale, so we're tempted to add some more great discounts into the cart...?!


I like the way you think


----------



## Ciochi

I've thought this way. I've now taken Capriccio, if mid-sale the new library is released, I'll take Maximo+the new library. Easy and smooth.


----------



## emilio_n

I am quite sure that the string library will not be part of these sales. But who knows...


----------



## Ciochi

emilio_n said:


> I am quite sure that the string library will not be part of these sales. But who knows...


Why not? Everyone do a sale for the launch..


----------



## emilio_n

Ciochi said:


> Why not? Everyone do a sale for the launch..


Is possible but not 60% off if you buy with another two libraries. Have more sense a kind of introductory price. Sonokinetic is not only famous for their great libraries but for their cool promotions so who knows.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

emilio_n said:


> Is possible but not 60% off if you buy with another two libraries. Have more sense a kind of introductory price. Sonokinetic is not only famous for their great libraries but for their cool promotions so who knows.


They will not be included in this sale - but they will have a nice introduction price


----------



## Casiquire

Go To 11 said:


> Ask and you shall receive, it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12 Days of Christmas 2021 - Sonokinetic - Sample libraries and Virtual Instruments
> 
> 
> Sonokinetic sampling high quality and affordable virtual instruments. Unique and one of a kind sample libraries. For composers, producers and sound designers. Original and authentic sample collections from ancient musical cultures and forgotten historical music heritage. Cinematic sampling and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sonokinetic.net


Their celesta is full of character if anyone's looking for a no-frills instrument that just works. Right now, for like twenty bucks, you can get a gorgeous sounding instrument with three mic positions, multiple dynamics, pedal up and pedal down samples, multiple dynamic release samples, and round robins. This beat out the celestas I've collected from some major devs over the years. It's pretty special. Not one to be missed!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Casiquire said:


> Their celesta is full of character if anyone's looking for a no-frills instrument that just works. Right now, for like twenty bucks, you can get a gorgeous sounding instrument with three mic positions, multiple dynamics, pedal up and pedal down samples, multiple dynamic release samples, and round robins. This beat out the celestas I've collected from some major devs over the years. It's pretty special. Not one to be missed!


thanks for the kind words!


----------



## Toecutter

@Sonokinetic BV did you record vibrato *and *non-vib?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Toecutter said:


> @Sonokinetic BV did you record vibrato *and *non-vib?


Yes we did


----------



## Marsen

Sonokinetic BV said:


> thanks for the kind words!


and I second this.
Their Celesta is top notch.


----------



## muziksculp

Given the current Spring Sale, I went forward, and purchased the Sonokinetic Celesta, and Accordion Libraries, I'm sure they will come in handy when needed. 

Now, just looking forward to the release of the Strings Library.


----------



## Rich4747

If I could make a strings library, I would look for the best players, instruments, hall and mics. Then record the most beautiful and breathtaking phrases as Part A of the library, Part B would offer the innovation of a direct route to recreate and alter the phrases in any way with the multisampled divisi elements, score and midi files, using the same players, instruments, hall and mics. Seems right and natural but I am getting older and hit my head on a pipe the other day so...


----------



## AndyP

Are first chairs included? I am driven by the desire for a string library that can do everything. If need be, it can even make coffee.


----------



## Rich4747

got to be getting close


----------



## dbudimir

Rich4747 said:


> got to be getting close



I am throwing out a guess that after the sale is over tomorrow, we will have strings as soon as Monday. Pretty please


----------



## Toecutter

Rich4747 said:


> got to be getting close


----------



## JDK88

I'm passing up some sweet deals here. I hope these strings are amazing.


----------



## Toecutter

May 16th


----------



## Rich4747

JDK88 said:


> I'm passing up some sweet deals here. I hope these strings are amazing.


I did not pass on the deal that ends today and very glad I did not. And I am hoping to have to buy another one or 2 from Sono here because it is also so good. My thought was if I didnt like the one the ends today I could refund it. What a great year to be makin music


----------



## filipjonathan

Alright so....do we know the date yet?


----------



## FireGS

filipjonathan said:


> Alright so....do we know the date yet?


We dont. :(


----------



## Evans

Aren't they based in Amsterdam? It's late afternoon there now, which makes me think today miiight not be the day.


----------



## FireGS

Evans said:


> Aren't they based in Amsterdam? It's late afternoon there now, which makes me think today miiight not be the day.


----------



## emilio_n

Why d you think they will release today or even tho week?


----------



## Evans

emilio_n said:


> Why d you think they will release today or even tho week?


I think people are hoping for it because their sale on other products just wrapped up _and _this new release has been looming for a few weeks to due some minor delays.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Mike Fox

@Sonokinetic BV 

Will any aleatoric fx be included in this?


----------



## muk

muziksculp said:


>



Aren't we waiting since 2019 basically? What's a week or two more:






Sonokinetic multi-sampled Orchestral Woodwinds -RELEASED!!


Our multi sampled strings will be released in 2019




vi-control.net


----------



## nolotrippen

I'm going to cut Sonokinetic a little slack. They missed the deadline (their own, not anyone else's) and were upfront about it. They have great products and overall good communication. By the way, I will not accept ANY free products for this unsolicited endorsement.


----------



## Kurosawa

I didn't buy Vista because I have high hopes for this release


----------



## muk

nolotrippen said:


> I'm going to cut Sonokinetic a little slack. They missed the deadline (their own, not anyone else's) and were upfront about it.


Absolutely. Estimating the development time for sample libraries is notoriously difficult, even without a global pandemic. The library will be released soon. In three weeks time nobody will be talking about whether that was on May 18th or 31st.


----------



## Evans

Everyone in this thread seems to be pretty calm about it. 

At the most, I'm just holding off on another purchase or two until the last day of current sales in case I want to jump on this (assuming it's out so I can weigh it against current budget). 

Simply keeping an eye on it, that's all.


----------



## muziksculp

@muk 

I wish I had your patience


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> @muk
> 
> I wish I had your patience


Now you honestly did not believe it would be released today did you? This company has been stringing us along for months LOL


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Now you honestly did not believe it would be released today did you?


I really was hoping today would be the big release day, but sadly it's not so far. 

The long wait continues, and I'm not happy waiting so long, because I'm not a patient person.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> I really was hoping today would be the big release day, but sadly it's not so far.
> 
> The long wait continues, and I'm not happy waiting so long, because I'm not a patient person.


I am extremely impatient also as well as irritated because I have a feeling this library is really going to be something special.


----------



## muziksculp

Now all we need is Sonokinetic telling us they had to move the release forward to June


----------



## Fever Phoenix

jeeez, stop bumping this thread 😄


----------



## FireGS

Fever Phoenix said:


> jeeez, stop bumping this thread 😄


No.


----------



## Fever Phoenix

FireGS said:


> No.


well, I keep thinking it's here when you do


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> Now all we need is Sonokinetic telling us they had to move the release forward to June


Please don't trigger me, my therapist can't take it anymore.


----------



## Frederick

In january when they announced the strings were going to be released in April, I thought that it was the first announcement. I had no idea this library had been in the works for years and that it's been a couple of years past the original envisioned release date already. Now I'm even more curious what this library can do! This year alone I've already bought three major string libraries... Is this going to be the one that will rule them all? Or is it going to be just very good, reasonably priced and blending very well with all their performance orchestra libs. I wouldn't mind that either. It's going to be very hard to justify another high-end super expensive string library... unless it is THAT good of course.

Edit: Removed competitors names. My bad.


----------



## chapbot

Frederick said:


> In january when they announced the strings were going to be released in April, I thought that it was the first announcement. I had no idea this library had been in the works for years and that it's been a couple of years past the original envisioned release date already. Now I'm even more curious what this library can do! This year alone I've already bought MSS, Synchron-ized Dimension Strings bundle and Synchron Elite Strings... Is this going to be the one that will rule them all? Or is it going to be just very good, reasonably priced and blending very well with all their performance orchestra libs. I wouldn't mind that either. It's going to be very hard to justify another high-end super expensive string library... unless it is THAT good of course.


My thoughts exactly. Earlier in this thread I had hypothesized the chances are good that this could be groundbreaking because of their quality programming in their previous libraries. I've been let down before... *cough MSS*


----------



## SquirrelMan

I've been happy since I got MSS, which is amazing - especially for pop stuff but I'm keeping my ears open for this. You can never have too many string libraries.


----------



## Jack Weaver

SquirrelMan said:


> You can never have too many string libraries.


Not true. I have too many of the wrong ones. A few of the right ones. Ane then there are the ones I can't remember what backup drive they are on now.

Doesn't mean that I'm still not looking for more of the right ones...

.


----------



## Casiquire

Should we be bringing up competitor products here? 

Given that the one word to spark my interest in any library is "divisi", I'm so eager for demos and examples i can hear for myself! The sound and the way it sings will make or break my decision


----------



## Toecutter

but is it?


----------



## MaxOctane




----------



## FireGS




----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Rich4747

can we get a quick 4.2 word update? or is it time for launch


----------



## FireGS

Rich4747 said:


> or is it time for launch


----------



## MaxOctane

In the meanwhile, while we wait... I know Sonokinetic said they *won't release details until the launch*, but I was hoping they could answer a quick question:

* Will there be separate Vn1 and Vn2?

And also:

* How many RRs are in each section?
* How many dynamic layers are in each section?
* How many mics for each instrument?
* What is the range of each instrument?
* If there is a harp, will it include glissandi? Which, specifically?
* What is the peak signal strength of the viola?
* How many legato transitions were recorded? Please list them according to each instrument separately.
* What brand flute was recorded? Silver-plated?
* What is the max angular spread of the stereo field?
* Could you post the serial numbers of the mics used? In particular, the mic used to record the cellos.
* Are there multi-tongue patches on the brass, and if so, were they tongued as "ta-ta-ta" or "ta-ta-da"?
* Could you post the bios for each section lead player?
* Can this library be used for epic music? How about epic with a pinch of melancholy, and a forlorn sense of longing for a simpler world that has passed us by?


----------



## blender505

MaxOctane said:


> In the meanwhile, while we wait... I know Sonokinetic said they *won't release details until the launch*, but I was hoping they could answer a quick question:
> 
> * Will there be separate Vn1 and Vn2?
> 
> And also:
> 
> * How many RRs are in each section?
> * How many dynamic layers are in each section?
> * How many mics for each instrument?
> * What is the range of each instrument?
> * If there is a harp, will it include glissandi? Which, specifically?
> * What is the peak signal strength of the viola?
> * How many legato transitions were recorded? Please list them according to each instrument separately.
> * What brand flute was recorded? Silver-plated?
> * What is the max angular spread of the stereo field?
> * Could you post the serial numbers of the mics used? In particular, the mic used to record the cellos.
> * Are there multi-tongue patches on the brass, and if so, were they tongued as "ta-ta-ta" or "ta-ta-da"?
> * Could you post the bios for each section lead player?
> * Can this library be used for epic music? How about epic with a pinch of melancholy, and a forlorn sense of longing for a simpler world that has passed us by?


* How much cowbell does it have and does it need more cowbell?


----------



## Evans

Can I buy each note separately? I only write in C major. Sometimes A minor.


----------



## Jeremy B.

MaxOctane said:


> Will there be separate Vn1 and Vn2?


In reading the bottom of page 6 through page 7, it seems that there will be a 2nd violin section, with each string section recorded in divisi (so 7-6-5-4-3, or 14-12-10-8-6 with both divisi combined).


----------



## Oliver

* I don't write any music...should i buy it nevertheless?


----------



## AndyP

* Is there a first chair and where do they practice, or at what times? My healthy sleep is important to me


----------



## Toecutter




----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Toecutter said:


>


I know right!!

So...let's be straight with you all again
We're just enjoying this process too much and the instrument is still improving every day, 
so we believe it would benefit greatly from some extra time. Because of the sheer size of the library, it's been an iterative process with the beta testers to get it to where it needs to be (and we are aiming high). The final bit in a production like this is where the magic happens and everything falls into place, it would be a shame to rush that. 

The instrument has been delivered to NI for encoding and NKS approval, so that process is underway, and we are very nearly there. 

The last step will be recording all the videos and promotion material, so everyone can start using this instrument without reading the manual when it comes out

I know I sound like a broken record, but bear with us a little longer and we'll deliver a tool worthy of anyone's pallette  

for those of you who like even more clarity - May is pretty much out of the question


----------



## emilio_n

Sonokinetic BV said:


> I know right!!
> 
> So...let's be straight with you all again
> We're just enjoying this process too much and the instrument is still improving every day,
> so we believe it would benefit greatly from some extra time. Because of the sheer size of the library, it's been an iterative process with the beta testers to get it to where it needs to be (and we are aiming high). The final bit in a production like this is where the magic happens and everything falls into place, it would be a shame to rush that.
> 
> The instrument has been delivered to NI for encoding and NKS approval, so that process is underway, and we are very nearly there.
> 
> The last step will be recording all the videos and promotion material, so everyone can start using this instrument without reading the manual when it comes out
> 
> I know I sound like a broken record, but bear with us a little longer and we'll deliver a tool worthy of anyone's pallette
> 
> for those of you who like even more clarity - May is pretty much out of the question


Take your time and enjoy meanwhile excitement and the funny memes here.
Users on this forum are impatient but good guys by definition. 

Keep working hard!


----------



## Toecutter

emilio_n said:


> Take your time and enjoy meanwhile excitement and the funny memes here.
> Users on this forum are impatient but good guys by definition.
> 
> Keep working hard!


We're so far from our 50-page goal set on page 8 that I'm kinda embarrassed... 14 pages are nice but I'm sure we can do better?


----------



## Jish

Toecutter said:


> We're so far from our 50-page goal set on page 8 that I'm kinda embarrassed... 14 pages are nice but I'm sure we can do better?


On it.



muk said:


> The library will be released soon. In three weeks time nobody will be talking about whether that was on May 18th or 31st.


----------



## Toecutter

Sonokinetic BV said:


> I know right!!
> 
> So...let's be straight with you all again
> We're just enjoying this process too much and the instrument is still improving every day,
> so we believe it would benefit greatly from some extra time. Because of the sheer size of the library, it's been an iterative process with the beta testers to get it to where it needs to be (and we are aiming high). The final bit in a production like this is where the magic happens and everything falls into place, it would be a shame to rush that.
> 
> The instrument has been delivered to NI for encoding and NKS approval, so that process is underway, and we are very nearly there.
> 
> The last step will be recording all the videos and promotion material, so everyone can start using this instrument without reading the manual when it comes out
> 
> I know I sound like a broken record, but bear with us a little longer and we'll deliver a tool worthy of anyone's pallette
> 
> for those of you who like even more clarity - May is pretty much out of the question


We hype, speculate, get anxious, meme spam, etc because we truly care! I (can't speak for others) appreciate that you won't release an unfinished product, at least not on par with the AAA quality expected from Sonokinetic libraries, so I have no problem waiting. What I can say is that I'm really thankful for your transparency considering the sheer volume of announcements, sales, you know... the sample madness out there, so knowing that May is out of question helps me set some short-term priorities.

My Sonokinetic funds are safe and secure, as long as you deliver a quality instrument, you can count on me!


----------



## AndyP

Until then, let's just enjoy some nice hot soup!


----------



## chrisav

Sonokinetic BV said:


> I know right!!
> 
> So...let's be straight with you all again
> We're just enjoying this process too much and the instrument is still improving every day,
> so we believe it would benefit greatly from some extra time. Because of the sheer size of the library, it's been an iterative process with the beta testers to get it to where it needs to be (and we are aiming high). The final bit in a production like this is where the magic happens and everything falls into place, it would be a shame to rush that.
> 
> The instrument has been delivered to NI for encoding and NKS approval, so that process is underway, and we are very nearly there.
> 
> The last step will be recording all the videos and promotion material, so everyone can start using this instrument without reading the manual when it comes out
> 
> I know I sound like a broken record, but bear with us a little longer and we'll deliver a tool worthy of anyone's pallette
> 
> for those of you who like even more clarity - May is pretty much out of the question


Any way we can get a rough estimate of the price, for budgeting reasons? 😂


----------



## chapbot

This is confusing. The first half of their post makes me think oh brother they're still working on it and it will be another 6 months. Then the next part says it is at NI for encoding. Then they say May is out of the question (how the heck long does it take for NI to encode something?) LOL I give up. At least I don't have to bother checking the forum three times a day to see if it's been released.


----------



## Flyo

Much appreciated response. EW needs to know how this could handled easy. Much more pleasant to know that any word form months and months of waiting’s and even rolled out subscriptions models based to get the best deal for a new releases coming. Much better.


----------



## MaxOctane

chapbot said:


> This is confusing. The first half of their post makes me think oh brother they're still working on it and it will be another 6 months. Then the next part says it is at NI for encoding. Then they say May is out of the question (how the heck long does it take for NI to encode something?) LOL I give up. At least I don't have to bother checking the forum three times a day to see if it's been released.


I think they meant it’s with NI, and are now working on demo vids before release


----------



## Casiquire

Yeah that statement is a little confusing. When it's at NI for encoding, isn't it basically done?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Just to clarify, it's at NI for encoding and NKS approval. This is a very thorough approval process and when there is significant NKS functionality it can take some time. It also provides us the opportunity to polish the library further during that time


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> It also provides us the opportunity to polish the library further during that time


How many times have you polished it so far ?


----------



## Kurosawa

Oh this gets me even more excited about the release


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> How many times have you polished it so far ?


we just want this thing to shine to high heavens  

I would say we're polishing where needed and getting rid of polish in other places...
the only thing left should be pure, natural sound


----------



## Geoff Grace

I'm glad you're taking your time to create the best possible product. Looking forward to the end result. 

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Frederick

My bet is it is WAY more frustrasting to be the developer of a new library that has been planned and worked on for 5 years and it's still only ALMOST completely ready for release while being very eager to show the world how well you have done. This all at great cost of which nothing can be recouped as long as it is not released.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Frederick said:


> My bet is it is WAY more frustrasting to be the developer of a new library that has been planned and worked on for 5 years and it's still only ALMOST completely ready for release while being very eager to show the world how well you have done. This all at great cost of which nothing can be recouped as long as it is not released.


I think Catharsis would be the proper term, this has been a labour of love all the way through


----------



## Toecutter

Frederick said:


> My bet is it is WAY more frustrasting to be the developer of a new library that has been planned and worked on for 5 years and it's still only ALMOST completely ready for release while being very eager to show the world how well you have done. This all at great cost of which nothing can be recouped as long as it is not released.


Yep and I appreciate the transparency, big points no matter how frustrating it is. Believe me, May 17 I had a bag of cash on my desk, ready to throw at the screen, and a cue waiting to try SonoStrings. But I won't punish Sonokinetic for being upfront, even if I have some strong opinions about early announcements with a big "APRIL" written and not meeting deadlines XD 

Anyway can we all forget this and pretend SonoStrings may be released any time now? I'll go first

May 20...


----------



## Toecutter

@Sonokinetic BV do you have a rough number of how much disk space it will take after installation?


----------



## Frederick

Toecutter said:


> @Sonokinetic BV do you have a rough number of how much disk space it will take after installation?


Excellent question!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Toecutter said:


> @Sonokinetic BV do you have a rough number of how much disk space it will take after installation?


it's about 97Gb compressed


----------



## Kurosawa

But does it have Measured Trills? Or ostinato phrases?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

All the details will be highlighted on release day


----------



## Toecutter

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's about 97Gb compressed


Awesome, thanks! To anyone interested, Amazon is having regular sales for the 4TB WD ssd... I got it for $334, worth keeping an eye out


----------



## Wenlone

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's about 97Gb compressed


It's lower than I expected for a 10 section library. Either it doesn't have detailed articulations or mic positions.


----------



## Markrs

Wenlone said:


> It's lower than I expected for a 10 section library. Either it doesn't have detailed articulations or mic positions.


It really depends how many mics. If it had 20 signals/mics like BBC SO Pro I would imagine it would be larger. So unless it does have a large number of mics, this size looks about right with detailed articulations


----------



## Getsumen

Wenlone said:


> It's lower than I expected for a 10 section library. Either it doesn't have detailed articulations or mic positions.


Nah I feel like library sizes have become incredibly bloated. Some libs are quite efficient with how small they can get. I feel like some devs purposefully make libs bigger to just flex "look how detailed it is!" even if that size is like 80x larger due to the addition of bottle mic 1, close mic but 80 feet away, etc. etc.


Performance Samples libs are quite small for example.
On a weirder end for example, BBC Discover isn't even a megabyte is it and it has a full orchestra (kind of) - Now compare that to BBC Pro.... Yeah


Wish devs would make reasonable sized libraries instead of adding all these mics that most people won't use.

I'd wait for some more details before making assumptions.


----------



## Wenlone

Getsumen said:


> Nah I feel like library sizes have become incredibly bloated. Some libs are quite efficient with how small they can get. I feel like some devs purposefully make libs bigger to just flex "look how detailed it is!" even if that size is like 80x larger due to the addition of bottle mic 1, close mic but 80 feet away, etc. etc.
> 
> 
> Performance Samples libs are quite small for example.
> On a weirder end for example, BBC Discover isn't even a megabyte is it and it has a full orchestra (kind of) - Now compare that to BBC Pro.... Yeah
> 
> 
> Wish devs would make reasonable sized libraries instead of adding all these mics that most people won't use.
> 
> I'd wait for some more details before making assumptions.


I get your point, but, mics are not the only thing. Dynamic layers, RRs, different lengths of crescendos, etc. are also increasing the size of the library. 

This library is recorded divisi, it's like 2 strings libraries. We can expect a larger number than other libraries. That's why I said we either get detailed articulations or more mic positions for just 97GB, not both. But the good thing is you can shape the sound with just 3 mics(close, tree, far) but you can't recreate non-existing articulations or dynamic layers with mic positions. So I hope it's detailed.


----------



## muk

Wenlone said:


> It's lower than I expected for a 10 section library. Either it doesn't have detailed articulations or mic positions.


That's about in line with their Woodwinds Ensembles library. That library is, if I am not mistaken, the only indication of what to expect from Orchestral Strings so far. Both libraries will be part of the 'Orchestral Series', so Woodwinds Ensembles are also of interest for what to expect from the strings in terms of articulations, mic positions, and programming.

Anyway, Woodwinds Ensembles is 4 sections, with 4 mic positions. It's about 48Gb uncompressed (24bit). Strings is 10 sections, and pretty exactly double the size of the Woodwinds Ensembles. So that looks about comparable to me.


----------



## Frederick

Wenlone said:


> It's lower than I expected for a 10 section library. Either it doesn't have detailed articulations or mic positions.





Markrs said:


> It really depends how many mics. If it had 20 signals/mics like BBC SO Pro I would imagine it would be larger. So unless it does have a large number of mics, this size looks about right with detailed articulations


Sonokinetic woodwinds:

4 recorded microphone positions
- Close
- Decca tree
- Wide
- Balcony (Far)
…and a stereo ‘Tutti’ mix

My guess is the strings will follow this pattern. 

As I understand it Sonokinetic is going for multi-sampled libraries that are recorded in the same way as their phrase based libraries (same mics and setup in the same hall etc). If you love their phrase based libraries then these are intended to be their perfect counterparts. They've already told us the sound is matching those closely!


----------



## zouzou

Getsumen said:


> Wish devs would make reasonable sized libraries instead of adding all these mics that most people won't use.


Yes ! I had a time when libs held on a floppy disk of 1.44 MB, then on CD-ROM of 650 MB ...
Of course, the articulations were very simple, and no layers and RR, but the sound could be good.
The important thing is often in the quality of the recording, the musicality, the expression and the playability, rather than in the number of gigabytes... A bad lib of 1Tb will be useless compared to a good lib of 20 Gb IMHO...
"_Il meglio è l'inimico del bene_" - "Perfect is the enemy of good"...


----------



## dbudimir

I love all the guessing games! 

We will see (hear) when we see (hear) in June. Money is ready to throw down!

For now, I thought I would comment just to maybe get the love for Sonokinetic over 20 pages before the release.


----------



## muziksculp

dbudimir said:


> We will see (hear) when we see (hear) in June


JUNE ?


----------



## FireGS

muziksculp said:


> JUNE ?


They did say "may is out", so yeah, June.

Also, isn't NI really against updating a libraries instruments after they're sent to them for encoding? @Mike Greene talked about that recently.


----------



## nolotrippen

Sonokinetic BV said:


> All the details will be highlighted on release day


AKA "tomorrow"?


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> They did say "may is out", so yeah, June.


Really ? where did they say that ?


----------



## FireGS

Sonokinetic BV said:


> for those of you who like even more clarity - May is pretty much out of the question





muziksculp said:


> Really ? where did they say that ?


There.

EDIT: Beatcha to it @Toecutter


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> Really ? where did they say that ?


I thought you were playing along with my "let's pretend we don't know May is out" XD But yea, it's not happening



Sonokinetic BV said:


> for those of you who like even more clarity - May is pretty much out of the question


----------



## Toecutter

But hey... @Sonokinetic BV said "pretty much"


----------



## rrichard63

Does Sonokinetic have any plans for an Orchestral Brass library to go with the Woodwinds and new Strings? Orchestral Percussion?


----------



## Frederick

rrichard63 said:


> Does Sonokinetic have any plans for an Orchestral Brass library to go with the Woodwinds and new Strings? Orchestral Percussion?


I believe so. They once told us solo instruments were coming too.


----------



## chapbot

FireGS said:


> They did say "may is out", so yeah, June.
> 
> Also, isn't NI really against updating a libraries instruments after they're sent to them for encoding? @Mike Greene talked about that recently.


Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I have zero expectation for June release, and this is one of the reasons. Or an error will be found and they'll have to go back to the drawing board. Or it needs more polish. Or something else 😆


----------



## muziksculp

Looks like this will be the shiniest library we have ever used. 

I think I might have to wear my shades when using it.


----------



## Toecutter

chapbot said:


> Or an error will be found and they'll have to go back to the drawing board.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

dbudimir said:


> For now, I thought I would comment just to maybe get the love for Sonokinetic over 20 pages before the release.


I like the way you think


----------



## Toecutter

Sonokinetic BV said:


> I like the way you think








How about we play a game? Will the library have some generic name like Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings or a unique name? If it's unique, give us a small hint and the first to guess the name gets a freebie!


----------



## Toecutter

Toecutter said:


> How about we play a game? Will the library have some generic name like Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings or a unique name? If it's unique, give us a small hint and the first to guess the name gets a freebie!


Well this idea didn't live long enough, just noticed the title of the thread "Orchestral Strings" doh


----------



## Toecutter

Maybe guess the sizes of the sections including divisi?


----------



## dbudimir

Toecutter said:


> Maybe guess the sizes of the sections including divisi?




90210…… No wait……..867 5309…. Those are the only numbers that come to mind…….. (Leaves to get coffee and excuses himself from the room)


----------



## Toecutter

dbudimir said:


> 90210…… No wait……..867 5309…. Those are the only numbers that come to mind…….. (Leaves to get coffee and excuses himself from the room)


Brenda


----------



## muk

Toecutter said:


> Maybe guess the sizes of the sections including divisi?





Piotrek K. said:


> Can I safely assume that you've went with one of those strings configuration and not some huge, 20 1st violins or similar "epic" setup?





Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's the large strings configuration, recorded in Divisi





muk said:


> Fantastic! Can you already tell us how the divisi is set up? Will there be two groups of 7-6-5-4-3 each, and one full ensemble? Or just the two groups that you combine to get the full ensemble? Or a different configuration to these?





Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's just the two groups per section that can be combined in the instrument using auto divisi, or you can select them separately if you prefer.



What do I win?


----------



## dbudimir

Toecutter said:


> Brenda




I was thinking Jenny! LOL


----------



## Toecutter

muk said:


> What do I win?


Jesus! How in the hell did I miss that?

You shall be known as the Lord of the Orchestral Strings  a 14-12-18-8-6 strings section recorded in divisi. I already learned two new things today, thank you very much!


----------



## Toecutter

dbudimir said:


> I was thinking Jenny! LOL


Brenda was my teen crush! Jennie is cute too XD


----------



## muk

Toecutter said:


> Jesus! How in the hell did I miss that?
> 
> You shall be known as the Lord of the Orchestral Strings  a 14-12-18-8-6 strings section recorded in divisi. I already learned two new things today, thank you very much!


Ha! I'll take that over being a member of the legato police. I'd take a free copy of Orchestral Strings too, mind you. But that title is nothing to sneeze at either.


----------



## Toecutter

@muk wear that title with pride my friend!

Anyone that does not have the attention span of a goldfish has suggestions for the game? Articulations list? nah probably too easy?


----------



## muk

A little info post to sweeten everybodys waiting time. Here is what we know:
*
Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings*, part of the '_Orchestral Series_'.
_
Release date_: unknown. Possibly June 2021. As per 20.05.2021 the library is at NI for encoding and NKS approval. NI states that this process usually takes about two weeks to complete. But Sonokinetic wrote that 'when there is significant NKS functionality it can take some time'.

_Price_: unknown.

Recorded with the_ Capellen Orchestra_, in the configuration 'Large Strings' 14-12-10-8-6



Capellen Music Production



The library features _two part divisi_:



Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's just the two groups per section that can be combined in the instrument using auto divisi, or you can select them separately if you prefer.


So probably two times 7-6-5-4-3, which can be controlled invividually or combined using auto divisi.

_Size of the library_: about 97gb compressed

Recorded at the _Concert hall in Zlin_:









Archiweb - Congress Center Zlin


The Congress Center is the part of Cultural and University Centre situated in the centre of the town Zlin, the only modern town constructed between the two world wars in central Europe, by the industrialist and philanthropist, Tomas Bata. The site belongs to the town of Zlin who has shared it…




www.archiweb.cz





Impulse responses of that venue are available in Altiverb 7 (recorded by Sonokinetic, by the way). Sonokinetic also offers a set of free impulse responses of the venue here:









Zlin Impulse Responses


The attachment below provides the IR's for the Zlin Concert Hall where we recorded our orchestral libraries. Please note that these are not the same as those provided by Altiverb. If you have Altiverb, please use those instead.




support.sonokinetic.net





To my knowledge that is all the available information so far.

**************************************

The library is part of Sonokinetic's 'Orchestral Series', together with Da Capo, Tutti Vox, and Woodwinds Ensembles. This series may give us some pointers for reasoned *speculation*:

Da Capo, Tutti Vox, and Woodwinds Ensembles have all been recorded with four mic positions:

_Close -Decca tree -Wide -Balcony (Far)._ 

Tutti Vox and Woodwinds also have a _Stereo Mix_ called 'Tutti'. This makes it a reasonable assumption that Orchestral Strings might be recorded with the same four mic positions.

Woodwinds Ensembles offer the following *articulations*:






Now we do not know anything about the articulations that have been recorded for Orchestral Strings. The layout above may be a pointer, though. With the exception of frullato, these articulations could all be part of Orchestral Strings too. Or not. We don't know. If you are a member of the legato police, worry not. Poly legato is also part of the articulations of Woodwinds Ensembles, even if it has been omitted in the list above.

We can also speculate that Orchestral Strings may be structured and programed similarly to Woodwinds Ensembles. In that case, these two tutorial videos about Woodwinds Ensembles could be of interest:


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muk said:


> A little info post to sweeten everybodys waiting time. Here is what we know:
> 
> *Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings*, part of the '_Orchestral Series_'.
> 
> _Release date_: unknown. Possibly June 2021. As per 20.05.2021 the library is at NI for encoding and NKS approval. NI states that this process usually takes about two weeks to complete. But Sonokinetic wrote that 'when there is significant NKS functionality it can take some time'.
> 
> _Price_: unknown.
> 
> Recorded with the_ Capellen Orchestra_, in the configuration 'Large Strings' 14-12-10-8-6
> 
> 
> 
> Capellen Music Production
> 
> 
> 
> The library features _two part divisi_:
> 
> 
> So probably two times 7-6-5-4-3, which can be controlled invividually or combined using auto divisi.
> 
> _Size of the library_: about 97gb compressed
> 
> Recorded at the _Concert hall in Zlin_:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archiweb - Congress Center Zlin
> 
> 
> The Congress Center is the part of Cultural and University Centre situated in the centre of the town Zlin, the only modern town constructed between the two world wars in central Europe, by the industrialist and philanthropist, Tomas Bata. The site belongs to the town of Zlin who has shared it…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.archiweb.cz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Impulse responses of that venue are available in Altiverb 7 (recorded by Sonokinetic, by the way). Sonokinetic also offers a set of free impulse responses of the venue here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zlin Impulse Responses
> 
> 
> The attachment below provides the IR's for the Zlin Concert Hall where we recorded our orchestral libraries. Please note that these are not the same as those provided by Altiverb. If you have Altiverb, please use those instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> support.sonokinetic.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To my knowledge that is all the available information so far.
> 
> **************************************
> 
> The library is part of Sonokinetic's 'Orchestral Series', together with Da Capo, Tutti Vox, and Woodwinds Ensembles. This series may give us some pointers for reasoned *speculation*:
> 
> Da Capo, Tutti Vox, and Woodwinds Ensembles have all been recorded with four mic positions:
> 
> _Close -Decca tree -Wide -Balcony (Far)._
> 
> Tutti Vox and Woodwinds also have a _Stereo Mix_ called 'Tutti'. This makes it a reasonable assumption that Orchestral Strings might be recorded with the same four mic positions.
> 
> Woodwinds Ensembles offer the following *articulations*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now we do not know anything about the articulations that have been recorded for Orchestral Strings. The layout above may be a pointer, though. With the exception of frullato, these articulations could all be part of Orchestral Strings too. Or not. We don't know. If you are a member of the legato police, worry not. Poly legato is also part of the articulations of Woodwinds Ensembles, even if it has been omitted in the list above.
> 
> We can also speculate that Orchestral Strings may be structured and programed similarly to Woodwinds Ensembles. In that case, these two tutorial videos about Woodwinds Ensembles could be of interest:



I love this stuff 

a few tidbits that I am willing to share:

Surprisingly little of the Woodwinds script made it into the new Orchestral Strings engine, it has been mostly engineered from the ground up, taking the best bits and pieces from things we did before.

The new engine is modular, and the Woodwinds will see a (free) future update to benefit from all the new stuff we've learned doing this and the new functionality added.

The mic positions will match the mic positions of all our other instruments.


----------



## LamaRose

Will this library contain actual samples... or just text describing each note/aticulation that you should be hearing in your head? Thanks.


----------



## Batrawi

and can we get this library for free as loyal non-customers? thanks


----------



## Toecutter

Batrawi said:


> and can we get this library for free as loyal non-customers? thanks


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> All the details will be highlighted on release day


@Sonokinetic BV ,

So, is the release day going to be in May, or it has moved to June ?


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> @Sonokinetic BV ,
> 
> So, is the release day going to be in May, or it has moved to June ?





Sonokinetic BV said:


> I know right!!
> 
> So...let's be straight with you all again
> We're just enjoying this process too much and the instrument is still improving every day,
> so we believe it would benefit greatly from some extra time. Because of the sheer size of the library, it's been an iterative process with the beta testers to get it to where it needs to be (and we are aiming high). The final bit in a production like this is where the magic happens and everything falls into place, it would be a shame to rush that.
> 
> The instrument has been delivered to NI for encoding and NKS approval, so that process is underway, and we are very nearly there.
> 
> The last step will be recording all the videos and promotion material, so everyone can start using this instrument without reading the manual when it comes out
> 
> I know I sound like a broken record, but bear with us a little longer and we'll deliver a tool worthy of anyone's pallette
> 
> for those of you who like even more clarity - May is pretty much out of the question



😭


----------



## muziksculp

Let's not forget it was due out in April !


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Come on @muziksculp can't you play with your 46 other string libraries while they're finishing this one ?


----------



## muziksculp

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> Come on @muziksculp can't you play with your 46 other string libraries while they're finishing this one ?


LOL... No, I'm having a hard time choosing one.


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if there will be a Special Intro price ?


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Dear Sonokinetic,

Will your string library feature brass instruments ? I love brass.
Is there going to be a special bundle price for the owners of Mallets and Ostinato Woodwinds ?
What about round-robin legato for the spiccato ? Please ?


----------



## midiman

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> Dear Sonokinetic,
> 
> Will your string library feature brass instruments ? I love brass.
> Is there going to be a special bundle price for the owners of Mallets and Ostinato Woodwinds ?
> What about round-robin legato for the spiccato ? Please ?


Very funny!


----------



## doctoremmet

muziksculp said:


> @Sonokinetic BV ,
> 
> So, is the release day going to be in May, or it has moved to June ?


It has moved to June. Believe me, us Dutch folk are usually pretty upfront in our communication, except when we announce something that may be slightly disappointing. Then we become slightly vague. “We may not release in May” means June (in Dutch).


----------



## CT

When is the mid-high legato being added ?


----------



## NoamL

Not a problem Sonokinetic... it will be ready when it's ready


----------



## rottoy

When is the contact high legato being added?


----------



## JDK88

What, no legato 2?


----------



## muziksculp

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> Will your string library feature brass instruments ? I love brass.


These Sonokinetic Strings will be super polished by the time they are released, that they will shine like Brass Instruments, so no need to feature any brass instrument.


----------



## constaneum

I believe it's gonna sound brassy. Mamamia 🤣🤣


----------



## Saxer

I want power legato


----------



## FireGS

Saxer said:


> I want power legato


How about "Power pianissimo"?


----------



## Go To 11

FireGS said:


> How about "Power pianissimo"?


Recorded at the Edge of Power.


----------



## Frederick

Just ordered another external SSD, because I squandered the diskspace that was meant for Orchestral Strings and afterall it is almost June.


----------



## chapbot

Frederick said:


> Just ordered another external SSD, because I squandered the diskspace that was meant for Orchestral Strings and afterall it is almost June.


I'm afraid your SSD will fill up again before they finally release the library 😆


----------



## Frederick

I'm sure they'll be ready in the flashiest of flashes. Rufus is just gift wrapping it. Adding a cinnamon stick and all - this is not a box - this is soo much more...

Maybe they'll put it in a Christmas box as the final touch.


----------



## muziksculp

The *VI-C* *Legato Police* will be on High-Alert during June, to evaluate the Legato qualities as soon as it is released.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> The *VI-C* *Legato Police* will be on High-Alert during June, to evaluate the Legato qualities as soon as it is released.


Yeah, I was afraid they would be breaking up the party.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> The *VI-C* *Legato Police* will be on High-Alert during June, to evaluate the Legato qualities as soon as it is released.


June? My, aren't you optimistic 😂


----------



## Sovereign

jbuhler said:


> Yeah, I was afraid they would be breaking up the party.


With pleasure!


----------



## marco berco

Evans said:


> Can I buy each note separately? I only write in C major. Sometimes A minor.


But don't forget to purchase some chromatic alterations too...


----------



## artomatic

Well, it's June...


----------



## LamaRose

I'm convinced they're still shooting for April.


----------



## muziksculp

LamaRose said:


> I'm convinced they're still shooting for April.


2024 that is.


----------



## LamaRose

muziksculp said:


> 2024 that is.


I'm a bit more optimistic... looking for a major BF pre-order discount on these babies.


----------



## zimm83

No more money for this one.....Strezov , Action , komplete.....
Maybe 2024...


----------



## muziksculp

zimm83 said:


> No more money for this one.....Strezov , Action , komplete.....
> Maybe 2024...


Actually, I'm beginning to lose interest. So, releasing it in 2024 might be a good idea.. I might be interested then, and hopefully NI would have finished coding it.


----------



## doctoremmet

So it begins.... the threshold has been reached...


----------



## emilio_n

muziksculp said:


> Actually, I'm beginning to lose interest. So, releasing it in 2024 might be a good idea.. I might be interested then, and hopefully NI would have finished coding it.





zimm83 said:


> No more money for this one.....Strezov , Action , komplete.....
> Maybe 2024...


Yes... Actually, I was keeping some money for this but with the delay, I bought more than I can admit since April, so I think, at least for me is very bad timing to release now.
The last two months have strong sales and great new products. I love Sonokinetic libraries and I really appreciate the team, but at the moment I am out :-(


----------



## Frederick

I'm still in, hoping for a quick (and awesome) release.

@Sonokinetic BV : A new engine... I can sense you are dying to share more about it 

Edit: I would totally understand if you guys would want to postpone for market related reasons, because for many it has been two crazy months of sales and new releases.


----------



## Toecutter

Frederick said:


> I'm still in, hoping for a quick (and awesome) release.


I'm hard in! And I'm thankful devs like Sonokinetic still hang around even though they don't appreciate my attempts to create positive buzz while ppl are getting impatient by the day.

I hope the wait pays off. I'm also waiting for a certain legato library to go on sale and a Japanese themed strings to be released. Everything else is irrelevant to me atm, there's only so much time I can waste hyping libraries that do not exist


----------



## blender505

I'm very interested to see what this library has to offer. I've been wanting a good divisi string library and after MSS had disappointing legatos, I've turned my attention over here. I've been working on a small personal project as a way to redo my template after getting a new computer, so now's the perfect time to drop a shiny new library in.


----------



## Rich4747

The Possibility of Beauty with Innovation still has my full attention


----------



## RonOrchComp

Rich4747 said:


> The Possibility of Beauty with Innovation still has my full attention


PBI 

mmm - sounds like a new sandwich.


----------



## bonebones

I have total faith given the brilliance of their output over the past few years, also given how hands on they are it's fair enough given the climate that there would be delays.. Looking forward to it Sonokinetic!!!


----------



## Casiquire

Man you're all super fickle lol! Also quick fyi, because i needed someone to point this out for me too, the commercial announcements threads are not for discussing competitors.


----------



## muziksculp

Sorry, I thought this wasn't the Commercial Thread. 

Deleted my previous post.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Sorry, I thought this wasn't the Commercial Thread.
> 
> Deleted my previous post.


I intentionally didn't tag anyone, A to avoid confrontation, and B, because multiple people started doing it. We've all made that mistake 😁


----------



## jbuhler

Casiquire said:


> I intentionally didn't tag anyone, A to avoid confrontation, and B, because multiple people started doing it. We've all made that mistake 😁


It’s an easy mistake to make when you are reading the forum on a mobile device and reading posts using “what’s new” since the following the link brings you to the last unread post and the various sub forums are only marked at certain parts of the page.


----------



## Casiquire

jbuhler said:


> It’s an easy mistake to make when you are reading the forum on a mobile device and reading posts using “what’s new” since the following the link brings you to the last unread post and the various sub forums are only marked at certain parts of the page.


Yep I've done exactly that before! 

Isn't this supposed to come out today? Haha


----------



## muk

Casiquire said:


> Isn't this supposed to come out today?


Normally, encoding at NI should be finished soon if it isn't already. The library was with them on May 20. That's the latest date the library was sent to NI. Maybe it was a few days prior. And the process usually takes around two weeks.

So by now it should be a question how much more polishing and depolishing the library needs, and how long it takes to prepare all the tutorials, demos, and release materials for the library.


----------



## rrichard63

muk said:


> by now it should be a question how much more polishing and depolishing the library needs, and how long it takes to prepare all the tutorials, demos, and release materials for the library.


If I understand this correctly, at least some kinds of "polishing" could require another encoding by Native Instruments and therefore more time. Maybe only a day or two rather than two weeks or more.


----------



## Toecutter

If every "polishing" requires a new two week cycle of encoding...






I bet everyone is missing the other companies' teasers XD At least we know what to wait for!


----------



## muziksculp

A release status update from @Sonokinetic BV would be appreciated. (Please).


----------



## muk

Toecutter said:


> If every "polishing" requires a new two week cycle of encoding...



While this is technically possible, Sonokinetic will probably want to avoid it or they have to pay the encoding fee again. Not a terribly high fee at 1000$, but still. Also, time. 

If Sonokinetic needs two weeks to create the promotion materials anyway though. Well, then it might just happen.


----------



## muziksculp

Over polishing can crack a surface. Not recommended. Please release it, I think it's shiny enough now.


----------



## Toecutter

muk said:


> While this is technically possible, Sonokinetic will probably want to avoid it or they have to pay the encoding fee again. Not a terribly high fee at 1000$, but still. Also, time.


wow I didn't know that... so once sent to NI for encoding*, all *subsequent modifications require a new $1000 encoding? Or devs have a number of free "revisions"?


----------



## FireGS

No one will admit to it, but either theres a bug thats serious, or feature creep is/has happened.


----------



## Casiquire

muk said:


> Normally, encoding at NI should be finished soon if it isn't already. The library was with them on May 20. That's the latest date the library was sent to NI. Maybe it was a few days prior. And the process usually takes around two weeks.
> 
> So by now it should be a question how much more polishing and depolishing the library needs, and how long it takes to prepare all the tutorials, demos, and release materials for the library.


I'm still not totally clear on what polishing can even happen after encoding at NI


----------



## Technostica

Casiquire said:


> I'm still not totally clear on what polishing can even happen after encoding at NI


Maybe they are polishing off a crate of beer or two!


----------



## RonOrchComp

muk said:


> Not a terribly high fee at 1000$, but still.


That's all? For an entire library? Nah - it's gotta be more than that!

And I would not be shocked if there were no free revisions on the part of NI. Although, one would think there should be.


----------



## chapbot

FireGS said:


> No one will admit to it, but either theres a bug thats serious, or feature creep is/has happened.


Yep I completely agree something is up. Let's just consider the laws of probability. Months ago, they said "We will release this in April and be looking for more information as weeks go by!" Crickets.

April: crickets. Also, "We decided not to release any information until the library comes out!"

May: crickets. Also: confusing statement about continually polishing the library and NI encoding.

June: crickets.

I've already been through this bait and switch with MSS 🤣


----------



## muk

RonOrchComp said:


> That's all? For an entire library? Nah - it's gotta be more than that!



Nope. The encoding fee is 1000$ per library. Of course there are other fees that come on top: 






Licensing







www.native-instruments.com


----------



## artomatic

Mum’s the word @Sonokinetic BV


----------



## Frederick

I think Sonokinetic said they would like to see this thread reaching 20 pages before release, so we sure have done our part...


----------



## RonOrchComp

muk said:


> Nope. The encoding fee is 1000$ per library. Of course there are other fees that come on top:


Ok, the encoding is 1k.

But the serial #s cost alot more, depending. But you wouldn't do the encoding without the serial #s. would you?


----------



## Toecutter

Frederick said:


> I think Sonokinetic said they would like to see this thread reaching 20 pages before release, so we sure have done our part...


Make it 21


----------



## doctoremmet

Which is true.

Which is not to say many announcements are just outright wrong.


----------



## muziksculp

21 Pages now. 

Good time to release it


----------



## rrichard63

This is all good fun and does pass the time while we're waiting. But it just occurred to me that the radio silence since May 22 might mean that a personal disaster, having nothing to do with polishing or encoding, has struck somebody at Sonokinetic. Let's hope not.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Sorry for the silence. There are no personal disasters, no major bugs, we are just working flat out getting everything as we want it to be


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Sorry for the silence. There are no personal disasters, no major bugs, we are just working flat out getting everything as we want it to be


Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

Thanks for coming out of your cocoon., and update us on what's happening 

So, I'm guessing NI is done encoding the library, and you are still working on finishing the videos, demos, documentation, ..etc. 

Still very excited about this library, and looking forward to the release day. Hopefully you won't tell us it's not going to be out in June, maybe in July.


----------



## constaneum

muziksculp said:


> Hopefully you won't tell us it's not going to be out in June, maybe in July.


Wait. Is it this year or next year ?


----------



## muziksculp

constaneum said:


> Wait. Is it this year or next year ?


LOL.. Please don't give them any bright ideas.


----------



## muddyblue

Hey  let the sonokinetic people do their work in peace! 
I know we are all always impatient ...but don't we have anything else to play with ?


----------



## muziksculp

muddyblue said:


> Hey  let the sonokinetic people do their work in peace!
> I know we are all always impatient ...but don't we have anything else to play with ?


Are you by any chance the head of the VI-Control *Patience Police* ?


----------



## muddyblue

muziksculp said:


> Are you by any chance the head of the VI-Control *Patience Police* ?


yes, and you're about to be arrested


----------



## muziksculp

muddyblue said:


> yes, and you're about to be arrested


LOL.. You need to update your Avatar to show your VI-C Patience Police Badge.


----------



## muddyblue

muziksculp said:


> LOL.. You need to update your Avatar to show your VI-C Patience Police Badge.


 ... undercover


----------



## Drundfunk

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Sorry for the silence. There are no personal disasters, no major bugs, we are just working flat out getting everything as we want it to be


I also like to work under pressure (which is another way to say: I usually procrastinate until I have no other choice than to get to work), but I feel like you guys should REALLY start the recording sessions for this one..... (and yes, I'm obviously joking).


----------



## Toecutter

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Sorry for the silence. There are no personal disasters, no major bugs, we are just working flat out getting everything as we want it to be


Are we still talking June? Any chance you show us something soon? Is it in a state where you can make music yet?


----------



## Saxer

Take all the time you need very fast.


----------



## rottoy

Saxer said:


> Take all the time you need very fast.


----------



## constaneum

Toecutter said:


> Are we still talking June? Any chance you show us something soon? Is it in a state where you can make music yet?


If it's not this J, it may still be the next J. July. 🤣


----------



## Casiquire

Toecutter said:


> Are we still talking June? Any chance you show us something soon? Is it in a state where you can make music yet?


If it's been at NI for encoding i have to imagine yes


----------



## Sovereign

muddyblue said:


> ... undercover


Weak ...


----------



## Toecutter

constaneum said:


> If it's not this J, it may still be the next J. July. 🤣


Don't give them ideas...







The number 22 is a number of precision and balance. In its full capacity, this number is the master builder, which means that *it provides the power to achieve almost impossible things*. 

In honor of page 22, let's do the impossible @Sonokinetic BV how about a release date? Or some audio noodlings?


----------



## Piotrek K.

Starting to look like vaporware :(


----------



## Casiquire

Didn't it only get announced 4 months ago? You're all very dramatic 😆


----------



## doctoremmet

Yeah, vaporware... No. Sonokinetic are even actively responding to this thread. I guess you all REALLY need this string library huh?


----------



## MaxOctane

doctoremmet said:


> Yeah, vaporware... No. Sonokinetic are even actively responding to this thread. I guess you all REALLY need this string library huh?


The announcement of a new library instantly renders all installed libs unusable.


----------



## doctoremmet

MaxOctane said:


> The announcement of a new library instant renders all installed libs unusable.


Yes. First thing I do when I read announcements. I have been composing without any strings for two years since Aaron Venture announced Infinite Strings and I immediately deleted all my obsolete ones.


----------



## Casiquire

MaxOctane said:


> The announcement of a new library instant renders all installed libs unusable.


I SWEAR THOUGH


----------



## constaneum

doctoremmet said:


> Yeah, vaporware... No. Sonokinetic are even actively responding to this thread. I guess you all REALLY need this string library huh?


we're just curious how it sounds. if it's outstanding, why not as another addition to our collections since we love collecting? haha


----------



## muk

Casiquire said:


> Didn't it only get announced 4 months ago? You're all very dramatic 😆



It was first announced as to be released in 2019. Since then, the release date has been moved a few times. First to 2020, then early 2021, then April, then May ('At this point I can not see it not being May)'. So I would say there's a point on both sides of the argument. 

But I agree, it probably won't be too long now. And we don't like bugs, so lets give them the time they need. Is it really so important that it comes out in June?


----------



## doctoremmet

If it doesn’t come out in June my life is over


----------



## Piotrek K.

doctoremmet said:


> Yeah, vaporware... No. Sonokinetic are even actively responding to this thread. I guess you all REALLY need this string library huh?



No. I need data. Information. And maybe the library, who knows ;D Believe me or not I have only 2 string libraries. One is my workhorse of which I'm getting tired a bit and the other one is a work...donkey. Useful at times but, well, it's a donkey. So I'd like to send my workhorse to retirement and now I'm looking for new... horse? Stallion? This metaphor is getting out of my hands xD

Anyway. I'm really interested in what Sonokinetic will bring to the table, because they are a bit different company in terms of what they usually do (and I'm not their main target). But with zero information from a product side we hardly even can speculate. It's divisi, it's 14/12/10/8/6 and it's recorded in a hall. Very tasty but also very little. I'm not a huge fan of this marketing approach to upcoming release. But thanks to Sonokinetic for actually participating from time to time.


----------



## zimm83

2024 we said.


----------



## Technostica

doctoremmet said:


> If it doesn’t come out in June my life is over


I hear that Wimbledon will be cancelled if it's not released in time for the tournament! 
You can't run a tennis tournament without strings.


----------



## doctoremmet

Technostica said:


> I hear that Wimbledon will be cancelled if it's not released in time for the tournament!
> You can't run a tennis tournament without strings.


It’ll start a chain of events, spawn a new timeline, create ANOTHER of them damn multiple universes that’s going to need a Znyder cut of a Znyder cut to save humanity. All because of Sonokinetic’s polishing and re-polishing of an effing string library


----------



## Simon Lee

I heard Thanos clicked his fingers so the Library has disappeared.


----------



## doctoremmet

Simon Lee said:


> I heard Thanos clicked his fingers so the Library has disappeared.


----------



## Simon Lee

doctoremmet said:


>


Very Good 🤣🤣


----------



## nolotrippen

Like the drinking song, it's April somewhere.


----------



## Peter Williams

Technostica said:


> I hear that Wimbledon will be cancelled if it's not released in time for the tournament!
> You can't run a tennis tournament without strings.


And we can't make a racket without strings!


----------



## rrichard63

Peter Williams said:


> And we can't make a racket without strings!


There needs to be an emoticon for "ouch!"


----------



## Toecutter

Meanwhile, at @Sonokinetic BV HQ...


----------



## doctoremmet

If they polish any harder all the gold paint will rub off of that weird looking huge trumpet


----------



## nolotrippen

doctoremmet said:


> If they polish any harder all the gold paint will rub off of that weird looking huge trumpet


That weird looking huge trumpet is an Nnnphone.


----------



## JDK88

nolotrippen said:


> That weird looking huge trumpet is an Nnnphone.


N 3 is already in production?


----------



## doctoremmet

nolotrippen said:


> That weird looking huge trumpet is an Nnnphone.


----------



## doctoremmet

JDK88 said:


> N 3 is already in production?


They finished it six years ago, so NI is likely finished polishing the serials around 2025


----------



## chapbot

In case anyone sees this thread pop up to the top of latest posts, please do not get excited as the library has not been released and may very well never be released or will maybe release this month or not.


----------



## Jish

chapbot said:


> In case anyone sees this thread pop up to the top of latest posts, please do not get excited as the library has not been released and may very well never be released or will maybe release this month or not.


I tell ya it cracks me up now thinking when they said, 'can't see it _not_ being May' if they seriously devised it as a cruel inside joke that actually meant 'May 2022'. Todd Howard levels of twisted villainy...


----------



## NekujaK

​


----------



## muziksculp

Their time is 2024


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Their time is 2024


Optimist as always!


----------



## artomatic

Me thinks it's going to be released really, really, really, really, really, really, really soon!


----------



## muziksculp

artomatic said:


> Me thinks it's going to be released really, really, really, really, really, really, really soon!


Yes, very soon ... 2024


----------



## constaneum

muziksculp said:


> Yes, very soon ... 2024


with lockdown these days....i've lost track of time. who knows i might have woken up the next day and it's Year 2024 already and yay, released !


----------



## Karl Feuerstake

doctoremmet said:


> If they polish any harder all the gold paint will rub off of that weird looking huge trumpet


That's an F Cimbasso built by Cerveny. It's more like an oversized Contrabass Trombone


----------



## Henning

chapbot said:


> In case anyone sees this thread pop up to the top of latest posts, please do not get excited as the library has not been released and may very well never be released or will maybe release this month or not.


I feel a little discontent hidden between these lines


----------



## Supremo

Last time I czech-ed the Sonokinetik site, they were still 'polishing' their strings. Seems that they got unsatisfied with the Zlin sound and decided to re-record the entire session at Warsaw philharmonic.


----------



## Toecutter

Jish said:


> I tell ya it cracks me up now thinking when they said, 'can't see it _not_ being May' if they seriously devised it as a cruel inside joke that actually meant 'May 2022'. Todd Howard levels of twisted villainy...


"Unsolved Sample Mysteries" XD
View attachment msm.mp4


----------



## JDK88

"Can't see it not being May?"

"may" as in maybe it will actually release, or maybe not?


----------



## doctoremmet

Just stopping by to ask whether my life’s over yet. 

Is my life over yet?


----------



## FireGS

artomatic said:


> Me thinks it's going to be released really, really, really, really, really, really, really soon!





doctoremmet said:


> Is my life over yet?



Sooooooooooon™™™™™™™.


----------



## doctoremmet

Thanks @FireGS - you’re somehow a fellow forum member I can always count on to speak truth


----------



## FireGS

doctoremmet said:


> Thanks @FireGS - you’re somehow a fellow forum member I can always count on to speak truth


----------



## Henning

Wasn't there a goal of 50 pages mentioned somewhere? We're not even half there, I mean, come on, we can do better, right?


----------



## dzilizzi

doctoremmet said:


> Just stopping by to ask whether my life’s over yet.
> 
> Is my life over yet?


Nope.


----------



## AndyP

Henning said:


> ... I mean, come on, we can do better, right?


Nope 2.


----------



## AndyP

doctoremmet said:


> Just stopping by to ask whether my life’s over yet.
> 
> Is my life over yet?


Look, what really concerns me is when a Doctor asks patients questions like that!


----------



## Jish

Henning said:


> Wasn't there a goal of 50 pages mentioned somewhere? We're not even half there, I mean, come on, we can do better, right?


You got it. This is Dieter- he got 'turned around' and lost out in the woods out there looking for Sonokinetic's 'Upcoming' String Library. We hope he find's his way out eventually.


----------



## FireGS

AndyP said:


> Nope 2.


Nope 3.


----------



## FireGS

AndyP said:


> Look, what really concerns me is when a Doctor asks patients questions like that!


You've never worked in an intensive care unit.


----------



## chrisav

FireGS said:


> Nope 3.


Nope: IV. Allegro


----------



## estolad

Piotrek K. said:


> No. I need data. Information. And maybe the library, who knows ;D Believe me or not I have only 2 string libraries. One is my workhorse of which I'm getting tired a bit and the other one is a work...donkey. Useful at times but, well, it's a donkey. So I'd like to send my workhorse to retirement and now I'm looking for new... horse? Stallion? This metaphor is getting out of my hands xD


You might need Wyld Stallyns, though that be only 6-strings.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Casiquire

Supremo said:


> Last time I czech-ed the Sonokinetik site, they were still 'polishing' their strings. Seems that they got unsatisfied with the Zlin sound and decided to re-record the entire session at Warsaw philharmonic.


I am SO DONE with all of you 😂😂


----------



## Toecutter

Henning said:


> Wasn't there a goal of 50 pages mentioned somewhere? We're not even half there, I mean, come on, we can do better, right?


That was one of my (dumb) ideas but I realized Sonokinetic isn't paying me to hype a make believe library that I didn't hear a single note so yea I'll save my memes and excitement until I hear something that impresses me and that might never happen unfortunately. I don't get what could have changed in 3 months that prevents them to show us something... you either have a good sample or you don't. "We promise we won't disappoint" ... "It'll be well worth the wait" come on, show don't tell... yep they discussed it internally and "believe it's better to disclose all in one go" but that was 2 months ago after failing to meet another date so time to reconsider this approach? 

It's similar to Cinesamples promising some revolutionary stuff, weekly updates and not delivering... I for one don't appreciate the constant unfulfilled promises.You can tell their street credibility is at stake, the Facebook page looks like a ghost town (19k followers, no engagement) ppl don't care anymore, way too many alternatives to even bother. At least with Sonokinetic we are still talking about it? I sincerely hope Orch Strings lives up to the expectation, tho the cynic in me can clearly see the huge hole they are digging themselves into.


----------



## muziksculp

The longer they take to release it, the lower my expectations.


----------



## doctoremmet

Toecutter said:


> That was one of my (dumb) ideas but I realized Sonokinetic isn't paying me to hype a make believe library that I didn't hear a single note so yea I'll save my memes and excitement until I hear something that impresses me and that might never happen unfortunately. I don't get what could have changed in 3 months that prevents them to show us something... you either have a good sample or you don't. "We promise we won't disappoint" ... "It'll be well worth the wait" come on, show don't tell... yep they discussed it internally and "believe it's better to disclose all in one go" but that was 2 months ago after failing to meet another date so time to reconsider this approach?
> 
> It's similar to Cinesamples promising some revolutionary stuff, weekly updates and not delivering... I for one don't appreciate the constant unfulfilled promises.You can tell their street credibility is at stake, the Facebook page looks like a ghost town (19k followers, no engagement) ppl don't care anymore, way too many alternatives to even bother. At least with Sonokinetic we are still talking about it? I sincerely hope Orch Strings lives up to the expectation, tho the cynic in me can clearly see the huge hole they are digging themselves into.


I can always depend on you to bring the message with hyperbole. First, the hype. Then, the inevitable backlash. 



So. My life is over?


----------



## Soundbed

Is there a special notification that will let me know before checking this thread that it was released? 😂


----------



## sostenuto

Hoping Son uses new Thread to release, or I'll miss it ......  ( _460 posts & counting ..... _)


----------



## sostenuto

dzilizzi said:


> Nope.


Never say - _never_ !


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> The longer they take to release it, the lower my expectations.


Yep. This has been an interesting psychological exercise with me. I was once ecstatic about this library and frankly at this point I've lost interest lol.


----------



## chapbot

Toecutter said:


> That was one of my (dumb) ideas but I realized Sonokinetic isn't paying me to hype a make believe library that I didn't hear a single note so yea I'll save my memes and excitement until I hear something that impresses me and that might never happen unfortunately. I don't get what could have changed in 3 months that prevents them to show us something... you either have a good sample or you don't. "We promise we won't disappoint" ... "It'll be well worth the wait" come on, show don't tell... yep they discussed it internally and "believe it's better to disclose all in one go" but that was 2 months ago after failing to meet another date so time to reconsider this approach?
> 
> It's similar to Cinesamples promising some revolutionary stuff, weekly updates and not delivering... I for one don't appreciate the constant unfulfilled promises.You can tell their street credibility is at stake, the Facebook page looks like a ghost town (19k followers, no engagement) ppl don't care anymore, way too many alternatives to even bother. At least with Sonokinetic we are still talking about it? I sincerely hope Orch Strings lives up to the expectation, tho the cynic in me can clearly see the huge hole they are digging themselves into.


There was such a backlash against cinesamples when people found out it was a phrase based library I wonder if it gave them cold feet?


----------



## muziksculp

OK, on a more serious note, I wonder what's Sonokinetic waiting for now, are they producing more audio demos, and more detailed video tutorials to showcase this library ? which I think would be wonderful to have on release, and it will be worth waiting another few days, or a week, or are they just holding it back for some other technical reason ?

Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

Can you enlighten us with some feedback on this ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## dzilizzi

Hopefully we are just waiting on NI and not any real problems with the library.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> Hopefully we are just waiting on NI and not any real problems with the library.


We are not even sure if it's still with NI, they might have been done encoding it by now.


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> We are not even sure if it's still with NI, they might have been done encoding it by now.


That would be even better.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> That would be even better.


Yes, that's why I am hoping @Sonokinetic BV can give us an update on the release status of this library.


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> Yes, that's why I am hoping @Sonokinetic BV can give us an update on the release status of this library.


I'm hoping they didn't get it back from NI and find a bunch of things wrong. I'm assuming the NI encoding doesn't do much to the libraries? I don't really know the process.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> I'm hoping they didn't get it back from NI and find a bunch of things wrong. I'm assuming the NI encoding doesn't do much to the libraries? I don't really know the process.


I don't know the details of what the NI encoding process details, but I doubt it affects anything coded by the developer. That would be a big nightmare for all developers. I think its more to add it to their Native Access eco-system. and issue serial numbers, shouldn't take that long.


----------



## muk

Encoding by NI should be finished by now. It's been three weeks at least since it has been sent in, and NI states that the process usually takes about two weeks. So they are 50% over their usual time amount by now. So it's a reasonable assumption that encoding has been finished.


----------



## muziksculp

muk said:


> Encoding by NI should be finished by now. It's been three weeks at least since it has been sent in, and NI states that the process usually takes about two weeks. So they are 50% over their usual time amount by now. So it's a reasonable assumption that encoding has been finished.


That's my guess as well. Hence my request for @Sonokinetic BV to give us an update on the release status of the library.


----------



## jazzman7

I won't pretend to know anything about marketing but If they are not having technical issues, would timing the intro during all these June sales be something they're looking at?


----------



## muziksculp

jazzman7 said:


> I won't pretend to know anything about marketing but If they are not having technical issues, would timing the intro during all these June sales be something they're looking at?


There are going to be Sales every month, so if that's one of the reasons holding them back, we will never see this library released.


----------



## jazzman7

muziksculp said:


> There are going to be Sales every month, so if that's one of the reasons holding them back, we will never see this library released.


Point!


----------



## Frederick

My guess is they've hired the legato police for beta testing and once those guys start sending it back... Tweaking playable polyphonic legato with auto-divisi and rebow - slur - fast - (non) accented - multiple vribato types, with say 5 dynamic layers probably takes ages.


----------



## yellow_lupine

I personally prefer not holding my breath on a library I don't know anything about other than it keep being delayed


----------



## muziksculp

Frederick said:


> My guess is they've hired the legato police for beta testing and once those guys start sending it back... Tweaking playable polyphonic legato with auto-divisi and rebow - slur - fast - (non) accented - multiple vribato types, with say 5 dynamic layers probably takes ages.


beta-testing ?


----------



## artomatic

This is starting to resemble MSS' and HO Opus Edition's thread.


----------



## jazzman7

I'm sure they want to get it right. Seems like the Woods VI didn't do so well


----------



## FireGS

Just noticed the "SOON" post on Twitter was deleted. Just don't know how long ago it happened. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## jazzman7

FireGS said:


> Just noticed the "SOON" post on Twitter was deleted. Just don't know how long ago it happened. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Interesting. Sorry to hear it, but better to get things right (We hope)


----------



## muziksculp

FireGS said:


> Just noticed the "SOON" post on Twitter was deleted. Just don't know how long ago it happened. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Which could also mean : " Not SOON"


----------



## doctoremmet

Or: we thought SOON when we posted it, but even in The Netherlands noone would argue it was “soon” anymore by now.


----------



## muk

FireGS said:


> Just noticed the "SOON" post on Twitter was deleted. Just don't know how long ago it happened. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



That is not a good sign. Was it a recent tweet or an older one? If recent that definitely points towards yet another delay.


----------



## FireGS

muk said:


> That is not a good sign. Was it a recent tweet or an older one? If recent that definitely points towards yet another delay.


It was the one.. I think.. saying May.

Yep, May.


----------



## jazzman7

FireGS said:


> It was the one.. I think.. saying May.
> 
> Yep, May.


Who knows? Maybe they thought "soon" and June would work better!


----------



## artomatic




----------



## muk

FireGS said:


> It was the one.. I think.. saying May.
> 
> Yep, May.



Ah, thank you for clarifying. In that case maybe it doesn't mean much. Hopefully Sonokinetic cleaned it up for the jeu de mots with 'May', not because of the 'soon'.


----------



## mussnig

I can understand to some extend that people are disappointed but at least this thread is not the dumpster fire that emerged here when the BBCSO update with the muted brass was delayed.


----------



## doctoremmet

April doet wat hij wil
In mei leggen alle vogeltjes een ei
Maar in juni, hebben we die strings nog steeds nie?

(old Dutch saying, often used in extremely emotional times)


----------



## chapbot

muk said:


> Encoding by NI should be finished by now. It's been three weeks at least since it has been sent in, and NI states that the process usually takes about two weeks. So they are 50% over their usual time amount by now. So it's a reasonable assumption that encoding has been finished.


If the library has been supposedly encoded and there is a forum chomping at the bit to buy it yet it has not been released, I think a reasonable hypothesis is that there are problems. And don't forget that confusing message that said they are still polishing.


----------



## RonOrchComp

I can not believe that after all of these years, developers still have not learned their lesson. It's amazing, really.


----------



## muk

chapbot said:


> I think a reasonable hypothesis is that there are problems.



It's possible. However, on Sunday Sonokinetic wrote that there are no major bugs, and that they are simply working to get the library to exactly how they want it to be. I do believe that's what's happening at the moment. The question for us is how long that is going to take. Can't blame Sonokinetic if they are hesitant with further estimates by now. I am curious whether a release is imminent, or a few weeks or months away still though.


----------



## dzilizzi

muk said:


> It's possible. However, on Sunday Sonokinetic wrote that there are no major bugs, and that they are simply working to get the library to exactly how they want it to be. I do believe that's what's happening at the moment. The question for us is how long that is going to take. Can't blame Sonokinetic if they are hesitant with further estimates by now. I am curious whether a release is imminent, or a few weeks or months away still though.


Sometimes being a perfectionist is good, other times it means nothing gets complete because it isn't perfect.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> Sometimes being a perfectionist is good, other times it means nothing gets complete because it isn't perfect.


If Sonokinetic thinks this library must be the perfect Strings Library, they are never going to release it, perfection is an illusion, it doesn't exist. So, this library won't either.


----------



## jazzman7

It's a huge task to get a string VI up to snuff considering the competition out there and the expectations surrounding a new release. I also would think that doing a phrase library vs a full sampled and detailed string VI with all the arts and everything working "just so" are two different skill sets. I don't see the legions on here singing the praises of any of the few purely ensemble Libs they have put out. I would bet that this release is of huge importance to the company. How many more thematic phrase VI's are there left to do? Plus it's a bit of a niche market to begin with


----------



## constaneum

Trust me...as I've said...I think it's the next J, July.🤣


----------



## Soundbed

dzilizzi said:


> Sometimes being a perfectionist is good, other times it means nothing gets complete because it isn't perfect.


I consider myself a "recovering perfectionist" — it's the ONLY way I can release music into the world; to know and understand that it will never ever ever be perfect.


----------



## muziksculp

constaneum said:


> Trust me...as I've said...I think it's the next J, July.🤣


and the year will be 2024.


----------



## Jish

Well no, I suppose we can't 'blame' them for not giving a more definite release date at this point, I mean if I was a dev that stated they couldn't see the release _not_ being whatever specific month, and then missed that date (just like the one before, ect) primarily due to 'polishing'...yeah, I would be aware I kind of stepped in the good ol' V.I. hornet nest and to proceed mostly with silence _until _actual release day.

I still hold out that it will be great in it's own way, and likely will purchase if that turns out the case, but something about how some of this unfolded is admittedly pretty annoying ( it would be different if there were something to go on, a few short demos, ect). But they just want everything to drop all at once, apparently, leaving everyone to rub dem' chins...



constaneum said:


> Trust me...as I've said...I think it's the next J, July.🤣


"There was a dream that was called, 'Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings'...anything more than a page refresh, and it would vanish, it was so fragile."


----------



## audio1

Sadly. I know a little about software development. The unexpected happens. They are smart to not prematurely release. Nobody is getting hurt, so waiting is fine.


----------



## MaxOctane

I have music inside me. It wants to come out.

It needs to come out.

So I sit at my desk, and double-click on my DAW. And then I see it.

Is it the new sonokinetic strings? Were they released in my sleep, while I dreamt?

Is SOON now?

No. It is only a mirror.
And my DAW double-clicks on me.
And it whispers,
_soon._


----------



## constaneum




----------



## constaneum

Previously we said "ask and you'll receive"....i think from Year 2021 onwards, it shall be "sleep ! dream ! and you'll receive"


----------



## Rich4747

while I wait I have been playing Indie with Noir and loving how well they complement each other.


----------



## Toecutter

Soundbed said:


> Is there a special notification that will let me know before checking this thread that it was released? 😂


I'll ping you! If you receive a notification from me in this thread you know it's out! XD



chapbot said:


> There was such a backlash against cinesamples when people found out it was a phrase based library I wonder if it gave them cold feet?


I shouldn't have mentioned CS here (forgot we're in the commercial thread) so I'm sorry for the off topic... but was it confirmed that it's a phrase based library or just speculation based on the screenshot?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

We wanted to share some of the progress on our Orchestral Strings. As it stands, the instruments are in a very good state, which allowed the demo composers to get to work and got us comments like these:

_'I love the sound we can get out of this instrument.' 
'Inspired today by your progress on the strings, I decided to use the two violin sections in a current project - even in beta form. The tone was so compelling that I replaced tracks from using other respectable libraries. '
'When I experimented by combined the strings with the phrase libraries today, I was blown away. The cohesion was immediate, and magical.'_

The issues the NKS team at NI found in their checks were minor and have been fixed already.
However, having had the instruments put through the wringer seriously in the beta phase, and knowing the standards we want to and have to achieve in this competitive market, where there are so many excellent products already, we decided to take a breather and avoid a rushed release.
We need a couple more months to implement all of our beta team's findings and suggestions, some of which came in at the end of the composing phase, and turn this into the head-turner it deserves to be.

Since this sample library is one of the most complex structures we have ever created we hope you will bear with us a little longerThanks for hanging in there with us! We're passionate about getting this right and providing you with a tool that will elevate your music and inspire you to create.


----------



## Casiquire

@Soundbed You don't have to think about it for another little while 😁


----------



## gst98

Is there a lot of stereo widening going on in the master?


----------



## lucor

The demo really doesn't sound very good, did something go wrong during export? The stereo image is completely screwed, hard to judge the sound of the strings like this. 
The articulation list looks promising though.


----------



## tcb

lucor said:


> The demo really doesn't sound very good, did something go wrong during export? The stereo image is completely screwed, hard to judge the sound of the strings like this.
> The articulation list looks promising though.


I guess they used mono close mics and put them a lot in the mix.
But I like this type sound


----------



## chapbot

"We need a couple more months" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Oh well, I do appreciate the demo!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

lucor said:


> The demo really doesn't sound very good, did something go wrong during export? The stereo image is completely screwed, hard to judge the sound of the strings like this.
> The articulation list looks promising though.


looks to be something in the youtube conversion, will check what we can do


----------



## Soundbed

Toecutter said:


> I'll ping you! If you receive a notification from me in this thread you know it's out! XD





Casiquire said:


> @Soundbed You don't have to think about it for another little while 😁


Okay I’ll check back in mid August.


----------



## Piotrek K.

Thanks for an update. Love the demo piece, the performance sounded so... full of life. Take your time


----------



## Leo

I'm huge Sonokinetic fan, but sorry, when you first wrote that sonokinetic release string lib on 4Q 2020, than April, than May...........
and in June you wrote we and beta testers need couple more months?
Remain bitter taste on the tongue.

And the "demo" is everything but no a demo about new strings.
My passion about this product is smaller and smaller.


----------



## Leo

Leo said:


> We wanted to share some of the progress on our Orchestral Strings by means of this fantastic product demo. As it stands, the instruments are in a very good state, which allowed the demo composers to get to work and got us comments like these:
> 
> _'I love the sound we can get out of this instrument.'
> 'Inspired today by your progress on the strings, I decided to use the two violin sections in a current project - even in beta form. The tone was so compelling that I replaced tracks from using other respectable libraries. '
> 'When I experimented by combined the strings with the phrase libraries today, I was blown away. The cohesion was immediate, and magical.'_
> 
> The issues the NKS team at NI found in their checks were minor and have been fixed already.However, having had the instruments put through the wringer seriously in the beta phase, and knowing the standards we want to and have to achieve in this competitive market, where there are so many excellent products already, we decided to take a breather and avoid a rushed release.
> We need a couple more months to implement all of our beta team's findings and suggestions, some of which came in at the end of the composing phase, and turn this into the head-turner it deserves to be.
> 
> Since this sample library is one of the most complex structures we have ever created we hope you will bear with us a little longerThanks for hanging in there with us! We're passionate about getting this right and providing you with a tool that will elevate your music and inspire you to create.



And D string on violin picture in about 41sec is out of the bridge! Pure violinist.


----------



## axb312

Good tone but as some have stated seems like too much stereo widening or something...Also excited to see how this handles runs...


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Leo said:


> And D string on violin picture in about 41sec is out of the bridge! Pure violinist.


good spot
that bit is stock footage but you might have surmised that


----------



## muziksculp

So.. when is it going to be finally released ?


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> So.. when is it going to be finally released ?


Wasn’t 2024 your optimistic guess?


----------



## Evans

Excellent! I decided this week that I need a couple of months before I make any further purchases.


----------



## muziksculp

OK, I didn't see the @Sonokinetic BV post, mentioning they need a couple more months. 

So, that will push the ETA to August. Not sure which year, though, could be August 2024.


----------



## FireGS

Didn't hear the post before it was removed, kind of glad. First impressions are yuuuuge.


----------



## chapbot

FireGS said:


> Didn't hear the post before it was removed, kind of glad. First impressions are yuuuuge.


Only at the very end you heard a few seconds of exposed strings and they sound synthy to me. Nice tone and not bad but nothing groundbreaking like I had anticipated.


----------



## doctoremmet

At what point is the experience “hey this sounds like recorded strings” going to be good enough? I am honestly not sure what “ground breaking” thing y’all are expecting 

I’m off to listen to some Soundpuft “mockups” and complain about how fake the strings sound


----------



## jbuhler

doctoremmet said:


> At what point is the experience “hey this sounds like recorded strings” going to be good enough? I am honestly not sure what “ground breaking” thing y’all are expecting
> 
> I’m off to listen to some Soundpuft “mockups” and complain about how fake the strings sound


One of my favorite activities is listening to old commercial recordings of orchestras and noting where they sound synthy and/or where repetitions sound machinegunney. Some of what we hear as a product of sampling is a product of recording instead.


----------



## doctoremmet

jbuhler said:


> One of my favorite activities is listening to old commercial recordings of orchestras and noting where they sound synthy and/or where repetitions sound machinegunney. Some of what we hear as a product of sampling is a product of recording instead.


This ^


----------



## Toecutter

@Sonokinetic BV thanks a lot for listening and sharing a demo  A few questions please:
The strings are *all *Orchestral Strings or did you use another library to complement the strings?
I see that there are phrases and runs tabs (awesome) the demo was *all *done with the normal "playable" patches? Or did you use pre-recorded phrases in any way?


----------



## artomatic

Where is this demo posted?


----------



## doctoremmet

artomatic said:


> Where is this demo posted?


Post 527 but it has since been removed due to YT sound issues apparently


----------



## LamaRose

artomatic said:


> Where is this demo posted?


That's the BF special that I previously mentioned.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

The demo if I recall was mostly short notes too? Smart way to avoid the legato police 😂


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Since this sample library is one of the most complex structures we have ever created we hope you will bear with us a little longerThanks for hanging in there with us! We're passionate about getting this right and providing you with a tool that will elevate your music and inspire you to create.


Take all the time you need to make it great


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Toecutter said:


> @Sonokinetic BV thanks a lot for listening and sharing a demo  A few questions please:
> The strings are *all *Orchestral Strings or did you use another library to complement the strings?
> I see that there are phrases and runs tabs (awesome) the demo was *all *done with the normal "playable" patches? Or did you use pre-recorded phrases in any way?


The strings were all Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings which are completely playable, there were no pre-recorded phrases. The phrases section of the library is entirely midi based with control over articulation assignment for the midi


----------



## muziksculp

What part of the library are you polishing now ?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> What part of the library are you polishing now ?


 mostly the phrases/midi import and export bit - we want that to be completely seamless...
we have also added slurred staccato for more realism in fast runs, which is now being put through its paces. The latter was a late addition based on input in the composition phase and it really makes a big difference we feel.


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> mostly the phrases/midi import and export bit - we want that to be completely seamless...


Thanks for the feedback. 

What exactly is the phrase/midi import and export all about ? and why is it so important to have it in this library ? I'm a bit in the dark about this detail.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

We'll check with the composers what went wrong in that final mix/render and will re-up when fixed - in the meantime here's another little snippet with only the Orchestral Strings instrument playing that'll give a better idea of the sound, albeit with less articulations showcased.



and here's the audio separate just in case youtube degrades what's in the video:


----------



## ricoderks

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We'll check with the composers what went wrong in that final mix/render and will re-up when fixed - in the meantime here's another little snippet with only the Orchestral Strings instrument playing that'll give a better idea of the sound, albeit with less articulations showcased.
> 
> 
> 
> and here's the audio separate just in case youtube degrades what's in the video:



Whoops that video sounds mono!
The soundcloud link sounds awesome though! Curious about this library!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> What exactly is the phrase/midi import and export all about ? and why is it so important to have it in this library ? I'm a bit in the dark about this detail.


we see it as an evolution of our phrase-based efforts, and the glue between phrases and multisampling. 
It will allow you to drag in midi, for instance from your other Sonokinetic libraries, and instantly use it with the strings, in different ranges and all types of chords. 
You can also record your own phrases in the instrument and instantly use these, which opens up many handy composing shortcuts. 
All will be revealed in the end, and we feel very strongly about this part of the instrument. 
Oh, and the midi export means you can drag out entire passages with chord changes and added harmony after playback for doubling with other instruments and such.


----------



## Marsen

Yep, somethings going wrong with your youtube-uploads.
Soundcloud is fine and sounds good.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

ricoderks said:


> Whoops that video sounds mono!
> The soundcloud link sounds awesome though! Curious about this library!


haha I don't know what to say - we are not having our best youtube day 
Good thing we also posted the audio separately this time
...


----------



## Marsen

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Oh, and the midi export means you can drag out entire passages with chord changes and added harmony after playback for doubling with other instruments and such.


oh, this sounds really interesting.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Marsen said:


> oh, this sounds really interesting.


yes can't wait to share that stuff with you guys


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> we see it as an evolution of our phrase-based efforts, and the glue between phrases and multisampling.
> It will allow you to drag in midi, for instance from your other Sonokinetic libraries, and instantly use it with the strings, in different ranges and all types of chords.
> You can also record your own phrases in the instrument and instantly use these, which opens up many handy composing shortcuts.
> All will be revealed in the end, and we feel very strongly about this part of the instrument.
> Oh, and the midi export means you can drag out entire passages with chord changes and added harmony after playback for doubling with other instruments and such.


Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

Thanks. That's very interesting. I don't have any of your phrase based libraries, not the way I like to work, but I'm very interested in this Strings Library. I hope you can finally put the finishing touches on it, and release it when it is ready. 

So, this midi dragging feature will be mainly useful for users who have your other phrase based libraries, I guess it won't be very useful for me, if I don't use them. 

It would be very helpful to watch tutorial videos, and walkthroughs of the library, showing all the special features it offers. I'm super excited about it, although I'm not a very patient person, but I will do my best to stay patient, and witness the release of this special strings library maybe in August this year.


----------



## gst98

Yes, that sounds much better. The first one was a bit distracting with the imaging, but the Soundcloud link is a big improvement. I love that there seems to be a lot of high-end detail retained.


----------



## chapbot

Sonokinetic BV said:


> we see it as an evolution of our phrase-based efforts, and the glue between phrases and multisampling.
> It will allow you to drag in midi, for instance from your other Sonokinetic libraries, and instantly use it with the strings, in different ranges and all types of chords.
> You can also record your own phrases in the instrument and instantly use these, which opens up many handy composing shortcuts.
> All will be revealed in the end, and we feel very strongly about this part of the instrument.
> Oh, and the midi export means you can drag out entire passages with chord changes and added harmony after playback for doubling with other instruments and such.


May I make a marketing suggestion? It appears you have a working version of the library, but feel you want it to be perfect before you release it.

Have you considered releasing it as is with the stated understanding that you will be updating it with new features as time goes on?

For someone like me, I have no interest in any of the phrase-based stuff, I just want a good raw string patch.

If I purchased it in the current state I would have no problem with any glitches knowing they will be addressed later. We've all purchased "finished" libraries and have had to deal with all kinds of problems.

Plus there's the additional benefit of bringing your customers along for the ride and getting them invested in the process - people would be reporting any issues they found and what you'd really have would be people paying you to do beta testing (with the understanding they are purchasing something that will be updated in the future with more features.)

Anyway, just a suggestion - I think that would be pretty cool and I would be first in line!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> So, this midi dragging feature will be mainly useful for users who have your other phrase based libraries, I guess it won't be very useful for me, if I don't use them.


you can drag in any midi up to 16 bars, or play your own passage - the engine will analyse the material and turn it into a usable phrase, and move it into the usable range for the instrument too


----------



## Henning

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We'll check with the composers what went wrong in that final mix/render and will re-up when fixed - in the meantime here's another little snippet with only the Orchestral Strings instrument playing that'll give a better idea of the sound, albeit with less articulations showcased.
> 
> 
> 
> and here's the audio separate just in case youtube degrades what's in the video:



This is a little snippet of the demo I submitted. You hear the really nicely playable sul pont tremolos of V1,V2 and Vlas plus some Cello and Basses legatos.


----------



## zimm83

Sonokinetic BV said:


> you can drag in any midi up to 16 bars, or play your own passage - the engine will analyse the material and turn it into a usable phrase, and move it into the usable range for the instrument too


Oh are you saying there is a 16 bar sequencer in it ? And it can handle different articulations ? And we can play live and transpose the sequence like Actions strings 2 ?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

zimm83 said:


> Oh are you saying there is a 16 bar sequencer in it ? And it can handle different articulations ? And we can play live and transpose the sequence like Actions strings 2 ?


Actually 16 beats, I mistyped there but yes, there is sort of a real time playable sequencer in there. I don't know about action strings 2, but this one analyses the source material and the target chord, and does voice leading and harmonisation in real time, and you can switch between twelve patterns on the fly and store 12x12x12 of them, that are then available in all sections of the orchestra. (So record something in violins and it will be available for basses too for instance).


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Actually 16 beats, I mistyped there but yes, there is sort of a real time playable sequencer in there. I don't know about action strings 2, but this one analyses the source material and the target chord, and does voice leading and harmonisation in real time, and you can switch between twelve patterns on the fly and store 12x12x12 of them, that are then available in all sections of the orchestra. (So record something in violins and it will be available for basses too for instance).


Also let's keep in mind that this is first and foremost a very capable divisi strings orchestra in its own right, with 100gb (Compressed) of samples. 

The playability of the main instrument comes first, and the phrases and runs functionality are built to run all their generated material through that same engine, doing all the legato and divisi stuff as if it were coming from the DAW


----------



## AndyP

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Actually 16 beats, I mistyped there but yes, there is sort of a real time playable sequencer in there. I don't know about action strings 2, but this one analyses the source material and the target chord, and does voice leading and harmonisation in real time, and you can switch between twelve patterns on the fly and store 12x12x12 of them, that are then available in all sections of the orchestra. (So record something in violins and it will be available for basses too for instance).


This sounds interesting and is a feature that I would like to see in libraries. Export already exists in some cases, but as far as I know, no one can import yet. Now I am very curious.


----------



## Toecutter

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We'll check with the composers what went wrong in that final mix/render and will re-up when fixed - in the meantime here's another little snippet with only the Orchestral Strings instrument playing that'll give a better idea of the sound, albeit with less articulations showcased.
> 
> 
> 
> and here's the audio separate just in case youtube degrades what's in the video:



Huge sound, I'm loving the tone! The first demo left a really good impression, very lively shorts, hence my question about any pre-recorded stuff. Very convincing, by far the best playable shorts I heard!  Please share more examples on Soundcloud, if possible something more melodic, a soaring theme, showing the legato. I'm hooked, looks promising!


----------



## Toecutter

And another question, I remember seeing a "crescendo-decrescendo" articulation in the first video... is this similar to 8Dio polyphonic Arcs? Can I play a melody of chord progression and it will follow the cresc-decr arc naturally without re-triggering a new crescendo?


----------



## Casiquire

chapbot said:


> Only at the very end you heard a few seconds of exposed strings and they sound synthy to me. Nice tone and not bad but nothing groundbreaking like I had anticipated.


From a few seconds? I'm trying to imagine, what WOULD be a groundbreaking few seconds?


----------



## chapbot

Casiquire said:


> From a few seconds? I'm trying to imagine, what WOULD be a groundbreaking few seconds?


I heard enough synthiness to know this isn't groundbreaking. Also heard the runs which sounded really synthy. Alternatively I could have heard a few seconds and been blown away... it really isn't that hard to comprehend, is it?


----------



## Casiquire

chapbot said:


> I heard enough synthiness to know this isn't groundbreaking. Also heard the runs which sounded really synthy. Alternatively I could have heard a few seconds and been blown away... it really isn't that hard to comprehend, is it?


It sort of is. I guess I've never heard just a few seconds of any library and been blown away. They're all well recorded lately so the wow factor comes in the details and under the hood for me. Different strokes i suppose!


----------



## chapbot

Casiquire said:


> It sort of is. I guess I've never heard just a few seconds of any library and been blown away. They're all well recorded lately so the wow factor comes in the details and under the hood for me. Different strokes i suppose!


I'm the kind of person who's really good at that game show Name That Tune. You hear a few seconds of a song and you can name the song. Same kind of thing, I own just about every string library made and have been doing music for several decades. When you get to that point you pretty much know what to listen for. Plus, being recently tricked by MSS I am even more acute in my listening skills lol


----------



## Jish

While I'm not going to rush to numerous confident judgments based on a demo that short I *do* kind of see where Chap is coming from- after you've played/listened/digested (burp) enough of these-them here _string libraries_, you begin to develop an almost innate sense of, "Oh, ok...so that _basically_ sounds and functions like that other one over here with maybe 5% difference". Sometimes, that 5% difference (or even less) is all you need to pick up another half a grand+ string acquisition, based on your need's (eh, let's face it- usually want's). So I can recognize both sides/perspectives well enough, but chapbot's overall point remains stable, imo- after enough time, you can pick up rather quickly a product that is shifting the scales in almost an _objectively_ more 'serious' fashion than others, based on what came before. The most current example I would highlight here, are the recent posted examples in the main PS 'Pacific' thread.

The room/tone on the posted soundcloud _is _quite nice and full, but frankly speaking I think that a product that was (again, allegedly) this far into it's development phase would have more illustrative demos/examples to highlight it's purportedly lovely and distinct divisi capabilities- I mean, it just _seems_ like that should be the case if indeed it's as far along already as reported, so I think, yet again, all we can do is wait for more clips before making conclusions.


----------



## chapbot

Jish said:


> While I'm not going to rush to numerous confident judgments based on a demo that short I *do* kind of see where Chap is coming from- after you've played/listened/digested (burp) enough of these-them here _string libraries_, you begin to develop an almost innate sense of, "Oh, ok...so that _basically_ sounds and functions like that other one over here with maybe 5% difference". Sometimes, that 5% difference (or even less) is all you need to pick up another half a grand+ string acquisition, based on your need's (eh, let's face it- usually want's). So I can recognize both sides/perspectives well enough, but chapbot's overall point remains stable, imo- after enough time, you can pick up rather quickly a product that is shifting the scales in almost an _objectively_ more 'serious' fashion than others, based on what came before. The most current example I would highlight here, are the recent posted examples in the main PS 'Pacific' thread.
> 
> The room/tone on the posted soundcloud _is _quite nice and full, but frankly speaking I think that a product that was (again, allegedly) this far into it's development phase would have more illustrative demos/examples to highlight it's purportedly lovely and distinct divisi capabilities- I mean, it just _seems_ like that should be the case if indeed it's as far along already as reported, so I think, yet again, all we can do is wait for more clips before making conclusions.


Thanks! Of course nobody is perfect and I was tricked by MSS because I wanted it so bad and I loved LASS. I won't dig in my heels that Sonokinetic strings are not groundbreaking but I'm pretty confident in my ear - I won't be 100% sure until I hear a reverb-less demo of the close mics... that's where you find the truth.

However I have heard enough at the moment that I don't feel a need to check this thread every day in breathless desperation like I have been up until now 🤣


----------



## Jish

chapbot said:


> I won't dig in my heels that Sonokinetic strings are not groundbreaking but I'm pretty confident in my ear - I won't be 100% sure until I hear a reverb-less demo of the close mics... that's where you find the truth.


More often than not this tends to be the best benchmark/case, yes.


----------



## Casiquire

Jish said:


> While I'm not going to rush to numerous confident judgments based on a demo that short I *do* kind of see where Chap is coming from- after you've played/listened/digested (burp) enough of these-them here _string libraries_, you begin to develop an almost innate sense of, "Oh, ok...so that _basically_ sounds and functions like that other one over here with maybe 5% difference". Sometimes, that 5% difference (or even less) is all you need to pick up another half a grand+ string acquisition, based on your need's (eh, let's face it- usually want's). So I can recognize both sides/perspectives well enough, but chapbot's overall point remains stable, imo- after enough time, you can pick up rather quickly a product that is shifting the scales in almost an _objectively_ more 'serious' fashion than others, based on what came before. The most current example I would highlight here, are the recent posted examples in the main PS 'Pacific' thread.
> 
> The room/tone on the posted soundcloud _is _quite nice and full, but frankly speaking I think that a product that was (again, allegedly) this far into it's development phase would have more illustrative demos/examples to highlight it's purportedly lovely and distinct divisi capabilities- I mean, it just _seems_ like that should be the case if indeed it's as far along already as reported, so I think, yet again, all we can do is wait for more clips before making conclusions.


I don't really hear anything groundbreaking from Pacific either 🤷


----------



## Jish

Casiquire said:


> I don't really hear anything groundbreaking from Pacific either 🤷


What I hear in atleast two of the clips on there, are very noticeable (and in a few places somewhat dramatic) use of dynamics that I haven't heard until now, likely because Jasper really hit the dynamic layer sampling much harder on this one (Pacific). I could mention a few other thing's I heard that add up in the end for a certain 'whoa' factor, but this isn't the thread to do that.

However, I would also say one can only follow their own ears at the end of the day, and if whatever library doesn't seem to 'do it' for you, we just gotta keep moving I guess. For the record until hearing the more recent 'Pacific' material, the last string release that only really left an impression on me was George's _Afflatus_.


----------



## MaxOctane

The soundcloud clip sounds excellent. Love those low strings! Looking forward to more clips. As an owner of almost all the big Sonokinetic libs, I have no doubt I'll add this to my arsenal.

Now, I do think we all need to back away from the term "_groundbreaking,_" for any sample lib. By and large, developers are constrained by the limitations of the VST/AU interfaces, and the DAW interface itself. Instrument plugins get basically just the same MIDI that was defined decades ago: pitch, length, control values. And DAWs have very poor support for any kind of higher-level usability and meaning of the raw notes and values. 

E.g., The sample engine doesn't know what notes are coming in the future (even though DAW knows) so it can pick the best sample accordingly. The sample engine can't render higher quality during playback vs when recording live. I can't select a passage in the DAW and label it "mf" and then everything adjusts (yes, I can do this in any notation software, but that's a different beast). I can't select a region and say "double this with flute and clarinet, an octave up and down," without actually cloning the regions, etc. 

There's a lot of awesome stuff libraries could do if DAWs gave them more info, and broke away from decades-old UI paradigms.


----------



## Rich4747

Innovation is so rare, I can wait.


----------



## zimm83

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Actually 16 beats, I mistyped there but yes, there is sort of a real time playable sequencer in there. I don't know about action strings 2, but this one analyses the source material and the target chord, and does voice leading and harmonisation in real time, and you can switch between twelve patterns on the fly and store 12x12x12 of them, that are then available in all sections of the orchestra. (So record something in violins and it will be available for basses too for instance).


Oh cool . thanks. Like mini realtime sequencer. Great !


----------



## Frederick

Thank you @Sonokinetic BV for all the info! In terms of functionality you seem to already have surpassed my expectations. More articulations than I anticipated and even midi import. I was already hoping for a phrase builder with midi export, but I don 't think we've had a hint at that before. 

Glad to hear tweaking legato isn't the issue and that it being a great string library is still the primary goal!


----------



## chrisav

Anyone got the articulation list? I didn't get to ser the video before it was taken down...


----------



## dzilizzi

jazzman7 said:


> It's a huge task to get a string VI up to snuff considering the competition out there and the expectations surrounding a new release. I also would think that doing a phrase library vs a full sampled and detailed string VI with all the arts and everything working "just so" are two different skill sets. I don't see the legions on here singing the praises of any of the few purely ensemble Libs they have put out. I would bet that this release is of huge importance to the company. How many more thematic phrase VI's are there left to do? Plus it's a bit of a niche market to begin with


I really like their Woodwinds library. The only issue with it I see is that it is only flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon, and only a3. It sounds good and is easy to use. The extended version has a really good amount of articulations, including runs. I end up using it before BWW and SSW a lot of times.


----------



## Frederick

chrisav said:


> Anyone got the articulation list? I didn't get to ser the video before it was taken down...


What I can remember:

Sustains: Normal, Espressivo, Sul Pont, Sul Tasto, Harmonics
Marcato: Normal, Espressivo and I think 3 short versions
Shorts: Staccato, Staccatissimo (issimo was of screen so it's a guess), Spiccato and Pizzicato
There's Col Legno and Bartok Pizzicato
5 Dynamics: Cresc, Cresc- Dim, the rest I don't recall exactly. I think I saw the Trills in two places. Sforzando maybe. Fortepiano maybe.
4 other: Major and minor Trill, Tremelo, Tremelo Sul Pont

There may be more, but this is what I remember. It's unclear which articulations have a legato variant

I didn't expect them to include Sul Pont and Sul Tasto.


----------



## Toecutter

Frederick said:


> What I can remember:
> 
> Sustains: Normal, Espressivo, Sul Pont, Sul Tasto, Harmonics
> Marcato: Normal, Espressivo and I think 3 short versions
> Shorts: Staccato, Staccatissimo (issimo was of screen so it's a guess), Spiccato and Pizzicato
> There's Col Legno and Bartok Pizzicato
> 5 Dynamics: Cresc, Cresc- Dim, the rest I don't recall exactly. I think I saw the Trills in two places. Sforzando maybe. Fortepiano maybe.
> 4 other: Major and minor Trill, Tremelo, Tremelo Sul Pont
> 
> There may be more, but this is what I remember. It's unclear which articulations have a legato variant
> 
> I didn't expect them to include Sul Pont and Sul Tasto.


Great memory Fred  I think you covered everything... there are also pages for runs and phrases .

I'm curious to know more about the dynamic articulations, if it's going to be like 8dio polyphonic arcs, where we can play a melody or chord progression and it will follow the cresc-dim arc naturally without re-triggering a new crescendo? My question to @Sonokinetic BV got buried by other messages.


----------



## robgb

Is it April already?


----------



## jazzman7

dzilizzi said:


> I really like their Woodwinds library. The only issue with it I see is that it is only flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon, and only a3. It sounds good and is easy to use. The extended version has a really good amount of articulations, including runs. I end up using it before BWW and SSW a lot of times.


I took a REALLY hard look at it. I loved the functionality but somehow the sound, from what I could hear, didn't really kill it. I was directly comparing it to another VI demo, flipping back and forth. I can't really remember which one, unfortunately. I think it was Vienna. 

Most of what I heard from the Sonokinetic Woods sounds I had access to, had a fair bit of reverb, or maybe too much hall mix on them.

Your opinion makes me want to reconsider. 

Still, the SONO woods for the most part have been damned by faint praise or absolute indifference from most of the community here. Believe me, I looked. That had an influence. Part of that may have been the limited # of instruments tho.

Plus, my most successful purchases tended to be ones that grabbed me instantly. AROOF, Vista, Sunset, etc.

I ended up grabbing BBCSO which covers the very basic bread and butter woods and brass needs (For the moment)


----------



## szczaw

Sonokinetic BV said:


> You can also record your own phrases in the instrument and instantly use these, which opens up many handy composing shortcuts.


Where's my credit card !


----------



## jazzman7

I love the phrase VI's but I would love them even more if I could use them more often. I think integrating the ensemble strings and the phrase world is a killer idea. My wallet will be in danger as well if that turns out to be the case!


----------



## dzilizzi

jazzman7 said:


> I took a REALLY hard look at it. I loved the functionality but somehow the sound, from what I could hear, didn't really kill it. I was directly comparing it to another VI demo, flipping back and forth. I can't really remember which one, unfortunately. I think it was Vienna.
> 
> Most of what I heard from the Sonokinetic Woods sounds I had access to, had a fair bit of reverb, or maybe too much hall mix on them.
> 
> Your opinion makes me want to reconsider.
> 
> Still, the SONO woods for the most part have been damned by faint praise or absolute indifference from most of the community here. Believe me, I looked. That had an influence. Part of that may have been the limited # of instruments tho.
> 
> Plus, my most successful purchases tended to be ones that grabbed me instantly. AROOF, Vista, Sunset, etc.
> 
> I ended up grabbing BBCSO which covers the very basic bread and butter woods and brass needs (For the moment)


I do prefer libraries with some room noise over dry libraries. if you like dry libraries? My choices might not work for you.


----------



## jazzman7

dzilizzi said:


> I do prefer libraries with some room noise over dry libraries. if you like dry libraries? My choices might not work for you.


Actually, I have a high opinion of your opinion!
Contradictory as it may sound, I don't like dry Libraries generally. Heck, with AROOF I pretty much bought the room! As soon as I heard it I could hear the echoes of several scores from cinema classics. 

I do generally like demos that at least have some dry content. Makes me suspicious when they don't. For some reason, the Vienna Woods in the tighter room sounded more "Solid" in the demos than their Sonokinetic counterparts. 

In another example, The Cool Jazz collection from Insanity samples sounds good, but there are only 2 demos and a bit derivative. But they do have nice walk thru vids. While Birth of the Trumpet and Tenor Colossus Demos sound more solid to me somehow, yet I'm not aware of walkthrus or articulation info. Still researching. The reviews have been good for Cool Jazz. I might be stuck buying both...or passing on both! Since we are stuck with what we buy, we have to kinda rely on demos, reviews, walkthru's, and this excellent community of ours


----------



## gnapier

Thanks Sono for the information and new target date. Sounds like mid-August / early September then, yes? The features described sound really interesting too. Looking forward to the release!

Please consider releasing a couple of more videos/examples before then. Obviously you’ve got an extremely interested group here. 🙂

Good luck.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Toecutter said:


> Great memory Fred  I think you covered everything... there are also pages for runs and phrases .
> 
> I'm curious to know more about the dynamic articulations, if it's going to be like 8dio polyphonic arcs, where we can play a melody or chord progression and it will follow the cresc-dim arc naturally without re-triggering a new crescendo? My question to @Sonokinetic BV got buried by other messages.


I don't know about the polyphonic Arc, but what you describe is pretty much how our dynamics work. 
It goes through all the velocity layers in different ways, and in the case of the Sfz articulation it also adds something at the start for realism. The dynamics are synced to tempo this way without having to use TMpro, which helps with efficiency. 
We are looking into adding options in case you do want the dynamic to happen for each note individually, but at the moment notes you add in will join the movement. 
The way it works now is that the modwheel position at the start of your triggering note will be the ceiling of the dynamic movement, and moving the mod wheel at any point will not affect anything until you catch the current point of the movement, to avoid sudden jumps.


----------



## Toecutter

Sonokinetic BV said:


> but what you describe is pretty much how our dynamics work.


This is fantastic and as far as I'm aware, you are the only two devs to offer such a thing. 



Sonokinetic BV said:


> at the moment notes you add in will join the movement.


Dynamic patches in other libraries are very limited. Usually if I play a chord (cresc-dim) and decide to add a new note in the middle of the arc, it starts a new dynamic movement for that note, instead of joining the movement. So awesome that you are doing the way you are doing it 



Sonokinetic BV said:


> The dynamics are synced to tempo this way without having to use TMpro, which helps with efficiency.


Yep was gonna mention TMpro, glad you found another way.

Thanks sir!


----------



## VSriHarsha

dzilizzi said:


> I do prefer libraries with some room noise over dry libraries. if you like dry libraries? My choices might not work for you.


Yea, too dry libraries, are fragile to me. Must deal with care. Although, having options to mess around would be a better move.


----------



## filipjonathan

Uhm...it's almost July. Did I miss something?


----------



## AndyP

filipjonathan said:


> Uhm...it's almost July. Did I miss something?


Nope


----------



## chapbot

filipjonathan said:


> Uhm...it's almost July. Did I miss something?


LOL the release is now "months" away.


----------



## FireGS

SOS

Did anyone else realize this is the acronym?


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> LOL the release is now "months" away.


Yup.. Just like a Mirage, the closer we get to it, the further away it moves.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Re-posting the video and it should have the previous audio issue fixed and we include the soundcloud link too


----------



## Rex282

Love it!!


----------



## Oliver

very very nice


----------



## FireGS

Sustains

straight
expressive
sul tasto
sul ponticello
harmonics
Dynamics

mod wheel
crescendo
cresc - dim
sfz crescendo
fortepiano
Marcatos

straight
expressive
shot
mid
long
Trem/Trill

tremolo
tremolo sul ponticello
minor trill
major trill
Shorts

spiccato
staccato
staccatissimo
pizzicato
"Effects"

bartok
col legno
Runs

Phrases


----------



## blender505

Looks like they also posted a version with just the strings on their soundcloud.


----------



## muziksculp

Sounds very polished, just release it


----------



## Toecutter

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Re-posting the video and it should have the previous audio issue fixed and we include the soundcloud link too



Can't get over how good the shorts sound! Please post more examples of the sustains and dynamics


----------



## Rich4747

Ok me excited, advanced editable phrases and runs with full sampled strings all recorded in the same hall as past libraries. I like the direction Sono is going. Can you imagine opening up Indie as an example and being able to edit the beautiful phrases. Now I know this wont be possible for Indie but If in the future if we can have Editable Phrases for their new libraries wow! Sonokinetic please feel free to straighten me out on this if I am wrong.


----------



## muziksculp

@Sonokinetic BV ,

Hi,

Are you still months away from releasing this library ? 

or do you think that a July release is possible/realistic ?

Thanks.


----------



## nolotrippen

I'm looking forward to getting this at Christmas.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> @Sonokinetic BV ,
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Are you still months away from releasing this library ?
> 
> or do you think that a July release is possible/realistic ?
> 
> Thanks.


It's not going to be July, because after 18 months of near lockdown, we collectively decided our families needed a bit of time while the weather is still kind of good (here in the UK). So we are having a short break and will return fully refreshed for the final buff


----------



## Markrs

Sonokinetic BV said:


> It's not going to be July, because after 18 months of near lockdown, we collectively decided our families needed a bit of time while the weather is still kind of good (here in the UK). So we are having a short break and will return fully refreshed for the final buff


Totally agree with this, after the year we have had, the most important thing to do is spend time with those you love ♥️


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I love the tone. Would love to see a brass library after


----------



## Kurosawa

Oh yes! Brass would be amazing!


----------



## Rob Elliott

blender505 said:


> Looks like they also posted a version with just the strings on their soundcloud.



Thanks for posting this. I really prefer libraries demos that ONLY have THAT library in the demo. This is useful to evaluate.


----------



## IvanP

Very nice tone! The connection between Shorts and Marcatos of different length is quite amazing!
Is this done through a script based on Velocity (or similar) or via Kswtch / Map Expression? 

Thank you!


----------



## AEF

ok my interest in this has been piqued. it sounds so agile and great for folks who like to play in the MIDI. awesome.


----------



## Rob Elliott

I'd like know if 'vibrato' intensity/amount can be controlled on the longs. For couple of spots on this otherwise superb demo I really wanted something closer to NV on the longs- especially at the end of phrases but also in the middle of lines. For all string libraries when I 'hear' a sustain note with NO movement on vibrato it's a tell-tale sign I am listening to samples. I have analyzed a lot of my mock-up projects with live ones and that it probably the biggest difference. For me, what makes a string section's performance 'lively' is the constant variation of vibrato (depth/amount). Thanks for any details (and a naked demo would of course be worth a '1000 words'  )


----------



## amorphosynthesis

Markrs said:


> Totally agree with this, after the year we have had, the most important thing to do is spend time with those you love ♥️


But haven't we all spent mandatory time with our loved ones?(i mean like almost all of our time?)


----------



## dzilizzi

amorphosynthesis said:


> But haven't we all spent mandatory time with our loved ones?(i mean like almost all of our time?)


It's to get out of the house with loved ones.


----------



## Casiquire

To be honest this has been the most difficult and intense year I've had at work in a very long time. Not everyone here scores movies 😁


----------



## Jish

amorphosynthesis said:


> But haven't we all spent mandatory time with our loved ones?(i mean like almost all of our time?)


I love the responses, atleast at this point- 'return for a final buff' and 'can't see it not being May,' ect- the Sonokinetic team reminds me of some of the crewmembers from the _Sopranos : _"So, what's goin' on now? Where's my library?" "I dunno what happened, it didn't release, and just died on the vine" 

Seriously though, atleast a demo has actually been released, and it already is hitting and even surpassing some expectations I was hoping from libraries years ago. If the Audiobro MSS is significantly better after a rather 'eh' initial release, there might be a chance Sonokinetic's are damn impressive at the release, and will only get better over time (yes!)


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Rich4747 said:


> Ok me excited, advanced editable phrases and runs with full sampled strings all recorded in the same hall as past libraries. I like the direction Sono is going. Can you imagine opening up Indie as an example and being able to edit the beautiful phrases. Now I know this wont be possible for Indie but If in the future if we can have Editable Phrases for their new libraries wow! Sonokinetic please feel free to straighten me out on this if I am wrong.


One of the things we have been working on in parallel to this is a tool that allows the auto import of the midi phrase data from our phrase based libraries directly into the Strings instruments which can then be manipulated to taste


----------



## Camus

Sonokinetic BV said:


> One of the things we have been working on in parallel to this is a tool that allows the auto import of the midi phrase data from our phrase based libraries directly into the Strings instruments which can then be manipulated to taste


Haha ….. playing out the Joker 😎


----------



## Rich4747

Sonokinetic BV said:


> One of the things we have been working on in parallel to this is a tool that allows the auto import of the midi phrase data from our phrase based libraries directly into the Strings instruments which can then be manipulated to taste


Very good to hear! So much potential with libraries recorded in the same hall. Editable phrases, its like having the best of both worlds, I am sure this is not easy to figure out but what a glorious payoff if you can even get close.


----------



## Loïc D

Casiquire said:


> To be honest this has been the most difficult and intense year I've had at work in a very long time. Not everyone here scores movies 😁


Incredibly difficult year here too.
Had to pause composing since I work 55 hours min per week and I’m sooo exhausted.


----------



## artomatic

... and it's August.


----------



## muziksculp

artomatic said:


> ... and it's August.


Summer Vacation extended until December.


----------



## rrichard63

I predict that Orchestral Strings actually arrives during August. I've been wrong before ... but I've been right a couple of times too.


----------



## muziksculp

rrichard63 said:


> I predict that Orchestral Strings actually arrives during August. I've been wrong before ... but I've been right a couple of times too.


Any chance you can predict the next Mega Lotto numbers, and get them right ?


----------



## chapbot

rrichard63 said:


> I predict that Orchestral Strings actually arrives during August. I've been wrong before ... but I've been right a couple of times too.


I honestly would not expect them this year - I've put them completely out of my mind lol


----------



## FireGS

rrichard63 said:


> I predict that Orchestral Strings actually arrives during August. I've been wrong before ... but I've been right a couple of times too.



Thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was mistaken.


----------



## rrichard63

muziksculp said:


> Any chance you can predict the next Mega Lotto numbers, and get them right ?


No.


----------



## Toecutter

Last post before @artomatic broke the silence was from June 25... impressive... see you in September?


----------



## Evans

I'm going to spend all my budget on summer sales and then something great is going to come out, isn't it?


----------



## Markrs

Evans said:


> I'm going to spend all my budget on summer sales and then something great is going to come out, isn't it?


Always. Same for BF, end of the year and spring sales. There is always something new, we want


----------



## Toecutter

Evans said:


> I'm going to spend all my budget on summer sales and then something great is going to come out, isn't it?


Definitely! another dev is celebrating 10 years, some cool stuff coming according to support. Don't blow it all in one place.


----------



## Batrawi

I enjoy the fact that Sonokinetic announces an unreleased library each time this thread gets bumped🙃


----------



## zimm83

Toecutter said:


> Definitely! another dev is celebrating 10 years, some cool stuff coming according to support. Don't blow it all in one place.


Yes .Going to spend everything on those mega summer sales.


----------



## constaneum

will it eventually be 2022?


----------



## Evans

constaneum said:


> will it eventually be 2022?


Once 2021 ends, yes.


----------



## Rich4747

I can feel the "kinetic" energy or anticipation.


----------



## scoringdreams

Read through 33 pages of this thread thinking that I missed a big strings library release back in April. I had been away from VI Control for way too long now...

Looks like it's not released yet, but it sure sounds like an exciting product.


----------



## stixman

Should be ready for the 12 Days of Xmas campaign 😉


----------



## muziksculp

stixman said:


> Should be ready for the 12 Days of Xmas campaign 😉


yes, but you forgot to mention the year ... 2022


----------



## reids

@Sonokinetic BV Any updates on the release date and pricing? Looking to hear some demos of this soon.


----------



## constaneum

yea. it's been rather quiet of late.


----------



## RonOrchComp

If it's not done, what do you want them to say?

_Hi guys, just checking in here to tell you it's still not finished._


----------



## bvaughn0402

I would be a big fan to wait and release it on Cyber Monday along with a sweet discount deal. That’s only a few months away. If I knew that was coming I would prob save up my purchases then for this.


----------



## rottoy

Opinions are _divisi_ve whether or not Sonokinetic are stringing people along for this one, 
but I for one think they should take a bow.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## Double Helix

rottoy said:


> Opinions are _divisi_ve whether or not Sonokinetic are stringing people along for this one,
> but I for one think they should take a bow.


It may be a bridge too far


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

are there any new demos?


----------



## Casiquire

It's like every day the internet has to find a way to infuriate me, and today,


rottoy said:


> Opinions are _divisi_ve whether or not Sonokinetic are stringing people along for this one,
> but I for one think they should take a bow.





Double Helix said:


> It may be a bridge too far



It you all keep this up I'm calling the cops


----------



## Casiquire

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> The legato police? 🙂


I'm excited to hear some legato to police! Even though I'm not part of the force haha


----------



## X-Bassist

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We are pleased to announce that our current plans are to release our Full Divisi Multi-Sampled "Orchestral Strings" in April of this year. Over the next couple of months, we will be releasing more information and insight. Stay tuned for further details.


Ohhhh.... They meant April 2022...

Please don’t Pre-announce things again. A month late looks bad, but a year? 😂😂😂. Better to make people think you’ve stopped releasing new products for a year or two... no word.... then... BAM! Releasing next week! (Because it’s BACK from NI and ready to go)😊👍

Avoid the temptation to make announcements right after the record, that’s where things just start to get complicated, and yes, unpredictable.


----------



## Rob Elliott

a pre-release announcement is purposeful - hence the now 34 pages of this thread.


----------



## YaniDee

Still waiting for Modal Runs drag & drop functionality..


----------



## constaneum

X-Bassist said:


> Ohhhh.... They meant April 2022...
> 
> Please don’t Pre-announce things again. A month late looks bad, but a year? 😂😂😂. Better to make people think you’ve stopped releasing new products for a year or two... no word.... then... BAM! Releasing next week! (Because it’s BACK from NI and ready to go)😊👍
> 
> Avoid the temptation to make announcements right after the record, that’s where things just start to get complicated, and yes, unpredictable.


doesnt this bear some resemblance to the digit 2? so 2022 is expected...


----------



## emilio_n

I think that they are trying to find a good window frame for the library. Not easy because this year looks there are a lot of promotions, sales and new products for the other developers.
Said that there are a couple of interesting string libraries around the corner. I want all, but my budget will let me buy one (I hope)


----------



## Frederick

I assumed it's going to be end of August or early September when they decided to postpone the release, so I'm not surprised at all about the current radio silence. Why would they make promises about specific dates at this point? It's better to finish it in peace and then just release it, them being almost there. Apparently they are only expanding the functionality, based on late feedback during the beta test / demo creation period. Maybe it has to go through the NI encoding process again and that could take some time as well. I wish them all the best finishing the library.

I hope they will find a good release window - when people still have some money in their wallets. My guess is that would be at the end of summer, because it's relatively quiet with new stuff during the summer and those back to school EDU sales exclude many people.


----------



## Leo

Frederick said:


> I assumed it's going to be end of August or early September when they decided to postpone the release, so I'm not surprised at all about the current radio silence. Why would they make promises about specific dates at this point? It's better to finish it in peace and then just release it, them being almost there. Apparently they are only expanding the functionality, based on late feedback during the beta test / demo creation period. Maybe it has to go through the NI encoding process again and that could take some time as well. I wish them all the best finishing the library.
> 
> I hope they will find a good release window - when people still have some money in their wallets. My guess is that would be at the end of summer, because it's relatively quiet with new stuff during the summer and those back to school EDU sales exclude many people.


yeah, (early) september 2022 is pretty realistic view..


----------



## dzilizzi

I know they sent it to NI in March or so for encoding. So something happened after that that made them miss the April date. I don't know if they weren't happy with something, or seeing things in MSS or TSS/listening to requests made them think they had to add functionality that wasn't originally planned. Or the midi feed from the other Sonokinetic libraries to the strings wasn't working the way they hoped? 

Hopefully whatever it is, they got it fixed. I was really okay with just drag and drop that was already there, just so I have a decent string section that blended well with the phrase libraries. Then between the winds and the strings, I could add individuality to the phrase libraries, if that makes sense.


----------



## X-Bassist

emilio_n said:


> I think that they are trying to find a good window frame for the library. Not easy because this year looks there are a lot of promotions, sales and new products for the other developers.
> Said that there are a couple of interesting string libraries around the corner. I want all, but my budget will let me buy one (I hope)


I don’t think any developer has the spare cash to wait for a release if it’s ready. My guess, like dz, is that something went sideways just before or after coding. Something that they felt would hurt the release, so they held off.

There are constant sales and changes in the market, so waiting could bring worse conditions, like a major developer releasing a better product that eclipses what your product is, so it’s better to release a ready product as soon as possible (within a few weeks or a month). I can’t believe anyone would say “we have a great product, but let’s hold off on the release”. That’s usually just in the movie releases (execs always think they have a great movie until it tanks, then “I always hated it” 😄).


----------



## galindoi

Rob Elliott said:


> a pre-release announcement is purposeful - hence the now 34 pages of this thread.


Lol yeah, but now it's been so long that they just feel "broken." If these strings were a car, I wouldn't drive it at this point.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

X-Bassist said:


> I don’t think any developer has the spare cash to wait for a release if it’s ready. My guess, like dz, is that something went sideways just before or after coding. Something that they felt would hurt the release, so they held off.
> 
> There are constant sales and changes in the market, so waiting could bring worse conditions, like a major developer releasing a better product that eclipses what your product is, so it’s better to release a ready product as soon as possible (within a few weeks or a month). I can’t believe anyone would say “we have a great product, but let’s hold off on the release”. That’s usually just in the movie releases (execs always think they have a great movie until it tanks, then “I always hated it” 😄).


Hey guys - sorry for the radio silence!
What happened was babies were born right at the heart of our production team and things ... just ... stopped  
This was also the reason for the maybe premature hyping, we were determined to get this product out in time. Obviously, we didn't make nature's deadline there!
We're back at it now with full vigour and renewed spark, and will start updating on the progress more frequently.


----------



## sostenuto

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Hey guys - sorry for the radio silence!
> What happened was babies were born right at the heart of our production team and things ... just ... stopped
> This was also the reason for the maybe premature hyping, we were determined to get this product out in time. Obviously, we didn't make nature's deadline there!
> We're back at it now with full vigour and renewed spark, and will start updating on the progress more frequently.


Congrats !! Enjoy to the max ... 👏🏻


----------



## emilio_n

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Hey guys - sorry for the radio silence!
> What happened was babies were born right at the heart of our production team and things ... just ... stopped
> This was also the reason for the maybe premature hyping, we were determined to get this product out in time. Obviously, we didn't make nature's deadline there!
> We're back at it now with full vigour and renewed spark, and will start updating on the progress more frequently.


Congratulations!!


----------



## MaxOctane

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We're back at it now with full vigour and renewed spark, and will start updating on the progress more frequently.


Wait, are we talking about the orchestra, or the baby-making?


----------



## PeterN

Sonokinetic has good marketing strategy from before, with freebies etc. Like, in 30 minutes, thousands of grabbers. I recallthe ostinato freebie went in like, 20 minutes. Or something.

Maybe this is one as well.

Teasing and teasing.....


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

PeterN said:


> Sonokinetic has good marketing strategy from before, with freebies etc. Like, in 30 minutes, thousands of grabbers. I recallthe ostinato freebie went in like, 20 minutes. Or something.
> 
> Maybe this is one as well.
> 
> Teasing and teasing.....


Trust me ... actual babies


----------



## Montisquirrel

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Trust me ... actual babies


Congratulations! Can't think of a better reason to postpone a release! Take your time for you and your families.


----------



## dbudimir

Congrats!! You said babies. Does that mean twins or more than one of your staff had a baby at the same time? Enjoy the new life into this world.


----------



## SteveC

Ah those babies, always come so fast. 9 ours of pregnancy and...


----------



## dzilizzi

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Hey guys - sorry for the radio silence!
> What happened was babies were born right at the heart of our production team and things ... just ... stopped
> This was also the reason for the maybe premature hyping, we were determined to get this product out in time. Obviously, we didn't make nature's deadline there!
> We're back at it now with full vigour and renewed spark, and will start updating on the progress more frequently.


Congrats on your new additions!


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Hey guys - sorry for the radio silence!
> What happened was babies were born right at the heart of our production team and things ... just ... stopped
> This was also the reason for the maybe premature hyping, we were determined to get this product out in time. Obviously, we didn't make nature's deadline there!
> We're back at it now with full vigour and renewed spark, and will start updating on the progress more frequently.


Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

Congratulations ! I'm guessing twins ? 

Now you are going to be busy on both fronts. Baby care, and Library development.  

Good luck. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Marsen




----------



## MaxOctane

Marsen said:


>



Heh. They're cute at _ppp_. And then they go _fff._


----------



## muziksculp

MaxOctane said:


> Heh. They're cute at _ppp_. And then they go _fff._


And ... In Stereo


----------



## Marsen

Marsen said:


>



They´ll sooner than you think, sell us lot´s of sample libraries!


----------



## Casiquire

No excuses now that you've got even more staff.

Really though, congratulations!


----------



## Frederick

Congratulations!


----------



## kj.metissage

Congrats man!!! That's great news.


----------



## Geoff Grace

Wow, congratulations, @Sonokinetic BV!

I see lots of joy in your future.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,
> 
> Congratulations ! I'm guessing twins ?
> 
> Now you are going to be busy on both fronts. Baby care, and Library development.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


not Twins, both Rob and I (founders) have a new addition to our respective families and they happened to arrive pretty close together


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> not Twins, both Rob and I (founders) have a new addition to our respective families and they happened to arrive pretty close together


Oh ! That must have been an exciting experience. 

OK. now I know. So.. Congratulations to both of you.


----------



## rrichard63

rrichard63 said:


> I predict that Orchestral Strings actually arrives during August. I've been wrong before ... but I've been right a couple of times too.


Well, this was one of times I was wrong.


----------



## rottoy

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Trust me ... actual babies


----------



## dbudimir

That just made me spit up my coffee. Thank you for the laugh!! 




rottoy said:


>


----------



## chapbot

W


rrichard63 said:


> Well, this was one of times I was wrong.


It perhaps may be best to not make predictions when Sonokinetic is involved 😂


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> W
> It perhaps may be best to not make predictions when Sonokinetic is involved 😂


Thank You Sir, a very wise statement.


----------



## muk

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We're back at it now with full vigour and renewed spark, and will start updating on the progress more frequently.


Are you ready to give a first update?


----------



## Leo

muk said:


> Are you ready to give a first update?


eager, April is just around the corner..


----------



## MaxOctane

I don't know why everyone keeps bumping this thread asking for updates. I'm sure Sonokinetic will update us the moment they're ready.

VI-Control be like:

_ Are we there yet?

Are we there yet?

Are we there yet?

Are we there yet?_


----------



## Saxer

_Are we there yet?_


----------



## MaxOctane

Saxer said:


> _Are we there yet?_


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

MaxOctane said:


> I don't know why everyone keeps bumping this thread asking for updates. I'm sure Sonokinetic will update us the moment they're ready.
> 
> VI-Control be like:
> 
> _ Are we there yet?
> 
> Are we there yet?
> 
> Are we there yet?
> 
> Are we there yet?_


Totally agree. Just one thing though:

Are we there yet?


----------



## FireGS

Zijn we er al?


----------



## Toecutter

@Sonokinetic BV are you still pushing for a September release?


----------



## muziksculp

Toecutter said:


> @Sonokinetic BV are you still pushing for a September release?


Which Year ?


----------



## Alchemedia

Recorded at the edge of infinity.


----------



## chapbot

Toecutter said:


> @Sonokinetic BV are you still pushing for a September release?


What gave you the idea they were releasing it in September?


----------



## Leo

chapbot said:


> What gave you the idea they were releasing it in September?


I also think that September is a very pessimistic estimate, more realistic is August .


----------



## robgb

Guys, clearly APRIL is the name of the library, not the launch month.


----------



## axb312

@Sonokinetic BV Could we trouble you for an update please?


----------



## artomatic

This is an "Are we there yet?" beggarly bump.
Was told by my therapist to post this.


----------



## Evans

artomatic said:


> Was told by my therapist to post this.


My therapist told me to stop coming here.


----------



## muziksculp

Evans said:


> My therapist told me to stop coming here.


But, You are not following your therapist's instructions.


----------



## MaxOctane




----------



## szczaw

I got the impression that instruments were done, they just decided to add new features that deal with generating phrases (?).


----------



## muziksculp

szczaw said:


> I got the impression that instruments were done, they just decided to add new features that deal with generating phrases (?).


I dislike instruments that generate phrases. They could skip this, and just release the library.


----------



## dzilizzi

szczaw said:


> I got the impression that instruments were done, they just decided to add new features that deal with generating phrases (?).


I think they were taking the phrases from the other libraries and converting them to use in this library? Or really importing the phrases. Then there were twins. Then there was baby brains (why won't they stop crying, I can't get any sleep!) Probably have to give them a month or two more.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> I think they were taking the phrases from the other libraries and converting them to use in this library? Or really importing the phrases. Then there were twins. Then there was baby brains (why won't they stop crying, I can't get any sleep!) Probably have to give them a month or two more.


I will probably pass on this library if they think that adding phrase generation to it will make it a better library. 

No Thanks.


----------



## szczaw

dzilizzi said:


> I think they were taking the phrases from the other libraries and converting them to use in this library? Or really importing the phrases. Then there were twins. Then there was baby brains (why won't they stop crying, I can't get any sleep!) Probably have to give them a month or two more.


Midi import from other libraries and recording your own.


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> I will probably pass on this library if they think that adding phrase generation to it will make it a better library.
> 
> No Thanks.


It isn't phrase generation, more being able to match with the phrases from their other phrase libraries. One of the things I was looking forward to in this was to be able to use it with the phrase libraries to change sounds so the phrases would work better. Basically, taking the midi export from the phrase libraries and adjusting to work using strings from the same room.


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> It isn't phrase generation, more being able to match with the phrases from their other phrase libraries. One of the things I was looking forward to in this was to be able to use it with the phrase libraries to change sounds so the phrases would work better. Basically, taking the midi export from the phrase libraries and adjusting to work using strings from the same room.


I see. Thanks for the feedback. 

I don't use any phrase based libraries, so I really don't need this detail, but I understand it might be useful for users who use them.


----------



## szczaw

muziksculp said:


> I dislike instruments that generate phrases. They could skip this, and just release the library.


Most of their offerings are phrase libraries, so adding phrase import could be attractive for existing customers. I don't know if this is the objective (I think it is), being able to record a phrase and later trigger it with and adjust it to chords is something new, not found anywhere.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> I dislike instruments that generate phrases. They could skip this, and just release the library.


Good grief they should just release it already. They have 597 phrase libraries, they shouldn't be worried about this one. Version 1.0 can be just the playable strings, version 1.1 can be a later update with any phrase capabilities. This way they might be able to reclaim some of the goodwill lost instead of waiting another 6 months to iron out bugs.


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Good grief they should just release it already. They have 597 phrase libraries, they shouldn't be worried about this one. Version 1.0 can be just the playable strings, version 1.1 can be a later update with any phrase capabilities. This way they might be able to reclaim some of the goodwill lost instead of waiting another 6 months to iron out bugs.


Yes, even better, they can develop a pure phrase based version of this strings library for those who love using their phrase based libraries. Leave this one out of the phrase business.


----------



## Lode_Runner

This thread reminds me of


----------



## dzilizzi

I like this one myself


----------



## gpax

chapbot said:


> Good grief they should just release it already. They have 597 phrase libraries, they shouldn't be worried about this one. Version 1.0 can be just the playable strings, version 1.1 can be a later update with any phrase capabilities. This way they might be able to reclaim some of the goodwill lost instead of waiting another 6 months to iron out bugs.


I don’t view Sonokinetic as a developer who has ever squandered away good will.


----------



## chapbot

gpax said:


> I don’t view Sonokinetic as a developer who has ever squandered away good will.


You must be new to this thread 😂


----------



## gpax

chapbot said:


> You must be new to this thread 😂


No. I just limit my comments to what is relative.

Sonokinetic is a very respectable and forthright team, and I think most would agree, including those who don’t necessarily use their tools regularly. They should not be targets of preemptive strikes.

For whatever reason, a small trio of voices decided this week it was time to continue beating a certain kind of drum that demanded accountability, or which called for placating personal expectations, or which even invoked a decline in good will. 

I love a good speculative thread, but nobody is forcing anyone to wait or keep a vigil here. Most simply want to check in periodically to see if there is a status update. I just got tired of seeing the same few voices bump this up with snarky, negative, or pejorative intent. Especially as such comments do not actually affect development, nor do they fairly reflect the kind of people I know Sonokinetic to be.


----------



## ism

Yes, a beta comes back with feedback on how to make it a better library and ... shock! horror! ... the developer decided to take that feedback seriously. 

This is the point of having betas.


----------



## chapbot

gpax said:


> No. I just limit my comments to what is relative.
> 
> Sonokinetic is a very respectable and forthright team, and I think most would agree, including those who don’t necessarily use their tools regularly. They should not be targets of preemptive strikes.
> 
> For whatever reason, a small trio of voices decided this week it was time to continue beating a certain kind of drum that demanded accountability, or which called for placating personal expectations, or which even invoked a decline in good will.
> 
> I love a good speculative thread, but nobody is forcing anyone to wait or keep a vigil here. Most simply want to check in periodically to see if there is a status update. I just got tired of seeing the same few voices bump this up with snarky, negative, or pejorative intent. Especially as such comments do not actually affect development, nor do they fairly reflect the kind of people I know Sonokinetic to be.


Oh, then you definitely have not bothered to read this thread. For the past eight months Sonokinetic has announced dates, missed dates, anounced they will be releasing info, then did not release any info and jerked everyone around to the point where this has been an utter fiasco. And now we have complete radio silence. So that probably is why people are a little salty around here. (By the way, I own most of their libraries.)


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Yes, damn, gentlemen, patience! This will come out when it comes out. By the way, I don't have a single library of Sonokinetic, but nevertheless it is very interesting for me to watch all this, because we all know that the competition is getting stronger with every moment. And perhaps this is why there are delays.


----------



## Henning

chapbot said:


> Oh, then you definitely have not bothered to read this thread. For the past eight months Sonokinetic has announced dates, missed dates, anounced they will be releasing info, then did not release any info and jerked everyone around to the point where this has been an utter fiasco. And now we have complete radio silence. So that probably is why people are a little salty around here. (By the way, I own most of their libraries.)


So, did you have any disadvantage through this? Sorry, I really don't get the problem here. Some people seem to be personally insulted by a product arriving later then expected. You know through the demos that there was a playable version of the strings. But Sonokinetic opted for taking a bit more time for getting their product right. Can we all respect that and get on with our lives now? Thanks.


----------



## muziksculp

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Yes, damn, gentlemen, patience!


LOL.. That's for sure... and following this thread is a very good training camp for strengthening our patience skills.


----------



## Casiquire

If i didn't know better I'd think there are a dozen people in this forum whose life changing projects are coming up due and which depend on this library we haven't even heard yet.


----------



## Denkii

Casiquire said:


> If i didn't know better I'd think there a dozen people in this forum whose life changing projects are coming up due and which depend on this library we haven't even heard yet.


To be fair, it has been at least a month since the last "game changing" thing came out so maybe it's just withdrawal.


----------



## José Herring

Man, I completely forgot about this release. Good thing there's 37 pages of bitching and kvetching to remind me every once in a while.


----------



## Denkii

I still believe it was a smart reverse psychology april's fools joke.
Tease the joke in February and say it'll release in April. Disappear from the face of this earth.
Next level. I respect that.


----------



## szczaw

Casiquire said:


> If i didn't know better I'd think there a dozen people in this forum whose life changing projects are coming up due and which depend on this library we haven't even heard yet.


Don't you know that next library is going to make all the difference in improving one's music.


----------



## emasters

szczaw said:


> Don't you know that next library is going to make all the difference in improving one's music.


So few String libraries to use instead...


----------



## muk

Delays are no problem. Personally I do think that communication could be better though. On both sides. If Sonokinetic writes that they will start 'updating on the progress more frequently', surely it isn't out of line to expect exactly that? I think that certain impatient remarks are regrettable. On the other hand, all it would have taken to prevent them would be two minutes of Sonokinetic's time to type something like 'We're still at it, and need a bit more time. We will give another update next month'. For me it's not the delays that are unfortunate, but the communication. It's the 'we'll keep you in the loop', followed by silence. 
Anyway, once the library is released I hope the moaning - and especially the moaning about the moaning - will be forgotten, and we will be discussing a beautiful library and the music that was created with it.


----------



## dzilizzi

Twins. They had twins. Two crying babies that set each other off. No sleep for at least 6 months. I don't know how many people work at Sonokinetic, but if your main person is not sleeping much, things are going to be on hold. No updates, no anything. Give them another month at least.....


----------



## Owen Smith

dzilizzi said:


> Twins. They had twins. Two crying babies that set each other off. No sleep for at least 6 months. I don't know how many people work at Sonokinetic, but if your main person is not sleeping much, things are going to be on hold. No updates, no anything. Give them another month at least....


Agreed. I think from post #695 they said that there were two members of the team that had babies but not twins. I remembered that because I have twins (and didn't sleep much for 6 months) and my wife is 40.5 weeks pregnant with our third child  Having a baby changes everything and I'm glad to hear the Sonokinetic team has their priorities in order. Of course I would love to hear more updates and have the library released (I've been trying to resist all the other sales so I can hopefully afford it) but in the end it's just a library and not as important as their families. Also a good opportunity for us to practice our patience


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

the older get, the more I love hearing about new families starting.


----------



## dzilizzi

Owen Smith said:


> Agreed. I think from post #695 they said that there were two members of the team that had babies but not twins. I remembered that because I have twins (and didn't sleep much for 6 months) and my wife is 40.5 weeks pregnant with our third child  Having a baby changes everything and I'm glad to hear the Sonokinetic team has their priorities in order. Of course I would love to hear more updates and have the library released (I've been trying to resist all the other sales so I can hopefully afford it) but in the end it's just a library and not as important as their families. Also a good opportunity for us to practice our patience


Ah. I thought they said twins. Single babies are still a lot of work. 

I think I've been waiting for this library for about 3 years. A few more months won't matter to me.


----------



## Rich4747

there is so much potential here and the possibility of enhancing the functionality of the existing libraries. do what you need to do to make this great. what if phrase libraries in the future no longer have chord restrictions, that alone is a major step forward. Personally I think the phrase library of the future will be even more versatile then a "normal" library.


----------



## Rich4747

while I wait I have been learning more about my existing sonokinec libraries. Playing Indie with Noir with both set to phrase lock is very satisfying.


----------



## Iskra

I loved the examples posted months ago, I'm very interested in this library and holding any other purchase to complement my current string libraries because I have the feeling this could be great. I have 0 problem waiting patiently for Sono to deliver, this is not an ER, right?  I can wait a couple of months (just hope it's here before black friday or it will be more difficult to keep the cash in my wallet).
And for everyone, specially if you have kids: let this two men enjoy with their families the two babies, shall we? Let them enjoy the first months, as they won't ever come back. Sono, we still be here once this is ready


----------



## gpax

dzilizzi said:


> Ah. I thought they said twins. Single babies are still a lot of work.
> 
> I think I've been waiting for this library for about 3 years. A few more months won't matter to me.


Absolutely! I like to also believe we are a community here, in our response, and you sum it up perfectly.


----------



## Trash Panda

Y’all are getting upset at waiting since April 2021 for a new strings library?

Might want to check out the Infinite Strings or CSW threads if you want to see some real exercises in patience.


----------



## dzilizzi

Trash Panda said:


> Y’all are getting upset at waiting since April 2021 for a new strings library?
> 
> Might want to check out the Infinite Strings or CSW threads if you want to see some real exercises in patience.


They actually started talking about it around 2 to 3 years ago. Just mentions of doing a string library similar to the woodwinds. Initially it was planned to be released in the fall of 2020, but the global situation delayed it and they announced it would be April 2021. It went in for NI encoding in early March, if I remember correctly. So it was on schedule to release in April. But something came up during beta and the babies came..... though we didn't know about the babies until later. 

It hasn't been as bad as the EWHO Opus was. But I also have way too many string libraries, so it isn't like I am sitting around waiting for this to make music. I just really love the room they use. I actually use their woodwinds over SSW and BWW a lot. Not too wet but not too dry.


----------



## markleake

dzilizzi said:


> I actually use their woodwinds over SSW and BWW a lot.


Yes, their woodwinds are excellent. Love them and use them often. They even have alternative recordings of some patches, which I take it are from earlier takes that they felt weren't quite up to par, but included anyway so you get alternative playing. Is such a comprehensive library. There's a bit of noise sometimes in the samples, but no library is perfect.

I hope the strings are even better. I'm willing to wait for something that is great, rather than just good. They have a very good pedigree so far, so let's hope.

There's so much else on the market, so don't understand the angst about missed targets.


----------



## NekujaK

Harrassing a developer has never resulted in libraries or library updates coming out any sooner. It'll arrive when it arrives. If it takes a year or two longer than initially estimated, oh well, that's just the way it goes sometimes.

Meanwhile, there are so many other great new libraries being released, and existing libraries going on sale, that I'm kind of relieved I don't have Sonokinetic's strings to consider as well.

We live in an age of unimaginable excesses. It doesn't hurt to appreciate what we already have in hand, and know that more is always on the way.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

gpax said:


> Absolutely! I like to also believe we are a community here, in our response, and you sum it up perfectly.


Thanks guys, for all the kind words! 

Yes, we definitely felt the need to be with our growing families, and recover from the huge effort we made to try and get the product done before the baby deadline  

Like you guys, our partners have been very patient with us through an extended period of long hours and virtually no days off, and we all could do with a bit of a break - insofar as you can call getting used to the new rhythm of family extension a break  It has been a blast though and like you said, those are once-in-a-lifetime things... 

The time off I think will also benefit the product in the end, we've gained some new insights looking at the work from a few steps back, it's only getting better...

Apologies for the lack of updates on here, we will update once there is more news to share, but will not give any new provisional release dates until we have the finished, encoded and approved product on our server


----------



## Kurosawa

Oh! A new post by Sonokinetic featuring their Orchestral Strings 






Focus - Sonokinetic - Sample libraries and Virtual Instruments


Delicate Orchestral Sample Library. Orchestral sampled instrument for delicate moments and deafening silence. We have covered a lot of ground in our orchestral series already; there’s the scary Tutti, the uplifting Vivace, the understated Minimal, the driving Grosso and the majestic Capriccio...




www.sonokinetic.net


----------



## emilio_n

Kurosawa said:


> Oh! A new post by Sonokinetic featuring their Orchestral Strings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Focus - Sonokinetic - Sample libraries and Virtual Instruments
> 
> 
> Delicate Orchestral Sample Library. Orchestral sampled instrument for delicate moments and deafening silence. We have covered a lot of ground in our orchestral series already; there’s the scary Tutti, the uplifting Vivace, the understated Minimal, the driving Grosso and the majestic Capriccio...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sonokinetic.net


Lovely.
Are that choirs from Tutti Vox?


----------



## FireGS

Kurosawa said:


> Oh! A new post by Sonokinetic featuring their Orchestral Strings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Focus - Sonokinetic - Sample libraries and Virtual Instruments
> 
> 
> Delicate Orchestral Sample Library. Orchestral sampled instrument for delicate moments and deafening silence. We have covered a lot of ground in our orchestral series already; there’s the scary Tutti, the uplifting Vivace, the understated Minimal, the driving Grosso and the majestic Capriccio...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sonokinetic.net


And a patch list, kinda.










EDIT: Erm, wait a minute.












"Created with Sonokinetic sample libraries. And as a teaser, *all strings* are from the upcoming Orchestral Strings sample library."

Kinda not true...........


----------



## muziksculp

So, is this a sign that we are getting close to seeing Sonokinetic Strings released ?


----------



## dzilizzi

I really like how they used the phrase libraries in this.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

FireGS said:


> Kinda not true..........


it looks like dust in the eyes, but really? I'm scared.


----------



## Double Helix

After Orchestral Strings is released and selling like hotcakes, I hope our pals at Sonokinetic will get the long-awaited midi drag 'n drop into Modal Runs (Please? Pretty please?)


----------



## Casiquire

FireGS said:


> And a patch list, kinda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Erm, wait a minute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Created with Sonokinetic sample libraries. And as a teaser, *all strings* are from the upcoming Orchestral Strings sample library."
> 
> Kinda not true...........


I thought they were including some kind of cross compatibility between the upcoming library and the existing one. Maybe that means it's absorbing those same samples?


----------



## FireGS

Casiquire said:


> I thought they were including some kind of cross compatibility between the upcoming library and the existing one. Maybe that means it's absorbing those same samples?


I hadn't heard that...


----------



## Casiquire

FireGS said:


> I hadn't heard that...


I was going to quote some posts but the conversation is a little too wide for me to be able to easily link key points. I'd do a search of this thread for the word "phrase" to see how the conversation goes. The short story of it seems to be that the samples aren't actually shared, but you can drag and drop phrases from their prior libraries and the results will be near indistinguishable. Maybe they figured that's close enough to make the claim. They're putting a ton of effort into making the usability of the libraries seamless together


----------



## FireGS

Casiquire said:


> but you can drag and drop phrases from their prior libraries and the results will be near indistinguishable.


like, the MIDI? or?


----------



## Casiquire

FireGS said:


> like, the MIDI? or?


I'd rather not speak much on their behalf about several products i don't own. That was my impression though!


----------



## LamaRose

muziksculp said:


> So, is this a sign that we are getting close to seeing Sonokinetic Strings released ?


Six months and counting!


----------



## RMH

Kurosawa said:


> Oh! A new post by Sonokinetic featuring their Orchestral Strings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Focus - Sonokinetic - Sample libraries and Virtual Instruments
> 
> 
> Delicate Orchestral Sample Library. Orchestral sampled instrument for delicate moments and deafening silence. We have covered a lot of ground in our orchestral series already; there’s the scary Tutti, the uplifting Vivace, the understated Minimal, the driving Grosso and the majestic Capriccio...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sonokinetic.net


Amazing compose!
But there is still no satisfaction with legato sound. The rest are great...


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

Any good news for us ? Can we expect a 2021 release of your Strings library ?

Thanks


----------



## Batrawi

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,
> 
> Any good news for us ? Can we expect a 2021 release of your Strings library ?
> 
> Thanks


Hmmm so your TSS pre-order didn't even help😄


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,
> 
> Any good news for us ? Can we expect a 2021 release of your Strings library ?
> 
> Thanks


I know it's painful, but perhaps it's time to move on 😆♥️


----------



## muziksculp

Batrawi said:


> Hmmm so your TSS pre-order didn't even help😄


You can never have enough String libraries. Did you forget all about that ?


----------



## Trash Panda

muziksculp said:


> You can never have enough String libraries. Did you forget all about that ?


“I don’t have a problem. YOU have a problem. Shut up!”


----------



## muziksculp

Trash Panda said:


> “I don’t have a problem. YOU have a problem. Shut up!”


Seems like you are the one having problems.


----------



## Trash Panda

muziksculp said:


> Seems like you are the one having problems.


No problems here, boss. Just having some fun.


----------



## muziksculp

Trash Panda said:


> No problems here, boss. Just having some fun.


Glad you're having fun, and all is good, with no problems.  🧡


----------



## FireGS

You got a problem with that?


----------



## audio1

Sadly, I don't see it in the cards anymore. Interest is wearing off. Taking way too long. 

In general, any development is always a give and take process, with unexpected unknowns playing a huge factor, with potential issues either on the tech or biz side {or both} disrupting flow. Wouldn't be the first time to happened in any kind of product development.


----------



## chapbot

audio1 said:


> Sadly, I don't see it in the cards anymore. Interest is wearing off. Taking way too long.
> 
> In general, any development is always a give and take process, with unexpected unknowns playing a huge factor, with potential issues either on the tech or biz side {or both} disrupting flow. Wouldn't be the first time to happened in any kind of product development.


Yep I wouldn't be surprised if they pull the plug.


----------



## markleake

Huh? If they recorded all the sessions and were close to release baring some fixes/updates, surely they will still release the library at some point.


----------



## chrisav

I'm sorry what now? I have to assume these posts are jokes


----------



## chapbot

markleake said:


> Huh? If they recorded all the sessions and were close to release baring some fixes/updates, surely they will still release the library at some point.


True, one would think... But then again factor in that this was supposed to be out in April. Fixes and updates don't take 6 months for a product just about ready to be released.


----------



## Getsumen

chapbot said:


> True, one would think... But then again factor in that this was supposed to be out in April. Fixes and updates don't take 6 months for a product just about ready to be released.


They also weren't working for a while due to maternity leave right?

Whatever the reasons for the delay there's 0 possibilities that they've pulled the plug on this.


----------



## dzilizzi

chapbot said:


> True, one would think... But then again factor in that this was supposed to be out in April. Fixes and updates don't take 6 months for a product just about ready to be released.


Two of them had babies in April/May. They aren't a big company. They planned to have it out before the babies came but it didn't happen. Everything stopped for a few months.


----------



## Robert_G

chapbot said:


> Fixes and updates don't take 6 months for a product just about ready to be released.


Alex from Cinematic Studios: "Hold my beer".


----------



## chapbot

dzilizzi said:


> Two of them had babies in April/May. They aren't a big company. They planned to have it out before the babies came but it didn't happen. Everything stopped for a few months.


6-month maternity leave 😂


----------



## chrisav

chapbot said:


> 6-month maternity leave 😂


Wait is that not a thing in other parts of the world?


----------



## jcrosby

chrisav said:


> Wait is that not a thing in other parts of the world?


Just a small country called America.

(I'm assuming you're joking no?)


----------



## Batrawi

chapbot said:


> 6-month maternity leave 😂


I think this may be fairly reasonable when you want to perfect both roles as a parent and company lead without sacrificing one for the sake of the other... it's tough!


----------



## Markrs

jcrosby said:


> Just a small country called America.
> 
> (I'm assuming you're joking no?)


Most people are usually quite shocked how little maternity/paternity leave you get in the US. I worked for a company that gave you 12 months off, 6 months of which was at full pay. Though not everywhere is as generous (6 weeks at 90% pay is the minimum) you get some money off the government for up to 39 weeks.

Personally I think it is great if they having taken some proper time off to be with new borns. Plus looking after child takes a lot of spare time up, which if they have other commitments can eat into any time they would have for this release.


----------



## chrisav

jcrosby said:


> Just a small country called America.
> 
> (I'm assuming you're joking no?)


Tbh it was mostly me being snarky. I've heard enough horror stories about the US to know that six months of parental leave must seem utopian there, but I wasn't aware where the people in AudioBro were from.


----------



## FireGS

Black Friday release, then? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sorry for the bump.


----------



## Jdiggity1

FireGS said:


> Sorry for the bump.


*




*

Are you though?


----------



## FireGS

Jdiggity1 said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Are you though?


----------



## muziksculp

My guess... It won't be out this year.


----------



## Frederick

They'll be doing the twelve days of Christmas sale in the first half of December again and then out of nowhere one of those days it will drop - they usely release a new product during that sale. They've been having a Christmas demo up on their site for months now which is using the new strings. I thought that was their subtle way of telling us when it will be released, but without making hard promises. Understandbly they don't want to make any more promises with regard to this release. So it all makes sense. Doesn't mean this theory is correct though.


----------



## muziksculp

Frederick said:


> They'll be doing the twelve days of Christmas sale in the first half of December again and then out of nowhere one of those days it will drop - they usely release a new product during that sale. They've been having a Christmas demo up on their site for months now which is using the new strings. I thought that was their subtle way of telling us when it will be released, but without making hard promises. Understandbly they don't want to make any more promises with regard to this release. So it all makes sense. Doesn't mean this theory is correct though.


Next Year... Maybe.


----------



## Frederick

muziksculp said:


> Next Year... Maybe.



I find your lack of faith disturbing. I say odds are they're going to beat the release date of at least two of the following: Synchron Woodwinds, Infinite Strings, Berlin mains in SINE. Deal with it!


----------



## Saxer

Frederick said:


> I find your lack of faith disturbing. I say odds are they're going to beat the release date of at least two of the following: Synchron Woodwinds, Infinite Strings, Berlin mains in SINE. Deal with it!


AND Tokyo and Pacific!


----------



## HazMatGuy

Perhaps they are working with Virharmonic…


----------



## muziksculp

Frederick said:


> I find your lack of faith disturbing.


Whatever faith I had left about the release of this library has completely evaporated.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> My guess... It won't be out this year.


My guess is they are hoping everyone will quietly forget about it 😆


----------



## Double Helix

Frederick said:


> They'll be doing the twelve days of Christmas sale in the first half of December again and then out of nowhere one of those days it will drop - they usely release a new product during that sale. . .


^^Thanks for this^^
I was not on VI-C until Feb. of this year, so I don't have experience with the traditional sales periods.
Anyway, I do have one of the Sonokinetic Ostinato libraries (via a modest academic discount) and was considering grabbing another, but now I see that I will have to be patient.


----------



## TomaeusD

They're here.


----------



## FireGS

wait, wot, really??


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

We are very proud to present our take on Orchestral Strings to you.

We have spent the best part of five years working on this project and have left no stone unturned to create a product that, as a multisampled String Orchestra alone, will satisfy even the most demanding users. But this collection is so much more than that. Orchestral Strings is the culmination of all of our efforts and experience to this point. It melds together everything that we've learned about multisampling over the years, combined with our knowledge of orchestral phrases.

At its core, Orchestral Strings is a hugely capable full-divisi full-size Strings section, recorded with the fantastic Capellen Orchestra in Zlin, Czech Republic. It is edited with the utmost care to preserve all the details and character of the performances.

We covered all of the most-used articulations in up to four velocities, and we devised a 'shared tail' system for the shorts that provides you with a greater variety of round robins without unnecessarily increasing the memory load.

Poly-Legato and Auto Divisi ensure the most realistic sound imaginable. No corners were cut in making this product, and it will evolve for many years to come. In fact, we still have some surprises up our sleeves that will enhance your user experience and provide tools that are useful and fun in equal measure.

Included within the instrument are some powerful midi engines with midi import, real-time midi manipulation, a piano roll editor and midi export. The possibilities are near endless once you scratch the surface, yet very easily accessible if you just want to compose quickly.

The Runs engine will trigger and play silky smooth runs whilst you hold chord notes. Just play a start and end key and these runs will adhere to your chosen chords and transition between all the applicable notes automatically.

The Phrases engine at its core works as a sketchpad for Patterns, with the core 12 patterns auto-saved with your instrument or DAW session. Going further, a potential 12 x 12 x 12 phrases can be saved away to be shared between your instruments and projects.

These phrases are then playable in a fashion very similar to the way our Phrase-Based instruments work. You can even drag in phrases from the Phrase-Based products you already own, edit them and tweak them to your liking, vastly boosting the flexibility of this Strings instrument. You can even drag out the midi for entire played passages including any chord changes, added Harmony etc. for use in third-party instruments or for instance to add a synth layer for a hybrid sound!

Overview





Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings is compatible with the free Kontakt Player version 6.6.1 or later and is also NKS compliant

The library is available for the very special introductory price of €199.99 until the end of the 12 days of Christmas (18th December). The price will then rise to €249.90 until 7th January after which the price will be €333.33. Lots more information available at https://www.sonokinetic.net/products/classical/orchestral-strings/?ref=vic


----------



## muziksculp

Paging @chapbot , Sonokinetic Strings finally Released !


----------



## RMH

what???
really? 
It was released?
🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭


----------



## FireGS

I'm afraid that all of the demo videos are in mono!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Why release after the BF money is already spent?


----------



## Snarf

The demo's sound good. UI looks great too.

Sidenote: the "Concerto in F minor" reminds me of Thomas Bergersen's "Allegro Agitato" demo for Hollywood Strings/Brass.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

@Sonokinetic BV please redo your tutorial videos in stereo!


----------



## Fever Phoenix

I'm like WOW!


----------



## Sunny Schramm

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Why release after the BF money is already spent?


its only 199€ - get it as a present, eat noodles this month or fire up your cc


----------



## muk

Very fair price for full divisi strings! Looking forward to checking out all the info and demos. At this price, I am most likely buying anyway.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Sunny Schramm said:


> its only 199€ - get it as a present, eat noodles this month or fire up your cc


This place is an opium den.


----------



## FireGS

Snarf said:


> The demo's sound good. UI looks great too.
> 
> Sidenote: the "Concerto in F minor" reminds me of Thomas Bergersen's "Allegro Agitato" demo for Hollywood Strings/Brass.



I thought this exactly.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

FireGS said:


> I'm afraid that all of the demo videos are in mono!


one of these days we will nail down this vimeo conversion issue


----------



## prodigalson

The musical examples in the tutorial videos are all in mono too but I can tell it'll sound great in stereo!!!


----------



## ricoderks

Snarf said:


> The demo's sound good. UI looks great too.
> 
> Sidenote: the "Concerto in F minor" reminds me of Thomas Bergersen's "Allegro Agitato" demo for Hollywood Strings/Brass.



Exactly! Same key, same structure and orchestrations etc.... I mean.... Really?


----------



## Go To 11

Sonokinetic BV said:


> one of these days we will nail down this vimeo conversion issue


I'm holding off on watching any of the videos for now, please let us know when they're up and running in stereo. And congrats!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

ricoderks said:


> Exactly! Same key, same structure and orchestrations etc.... I mean.... Really?


hmm you're right! I wasn't familiar with this piece - we will sure ask the composers about this!


----------



## muziksculp

@Sonokinetic BV ,

Congratulations on the *Sonokinetic Strings* Library released. They sound awesome, and I'm glad you were able to release them this year. I almost lost all hope this will happen, but I was wrong, and I'm happy I was wrong.  

I will most likely buy it, love the acoustics of the hall, will be checking it out all day long. Very excited to see this library finally available, and at a reasonable intro. price. THANKS. 

Cheers & Happy Holidays 🎅
Muziksculp


----------



## prodigalson

I truly don't need another string library as long as I live...but the value for money here is off the charts....


----------



## ricoderks

Sonokinetic BV said:


> hmm you're right! I wasn't familiar with this piece - we will sure ask the composers about this!


It sounds fantastic though! Oh, and congrats with the release!!


----------



## Wes Antczak

Regarding the similarity with the Bergesen demo. Personally, I find that a very good thing. I mean, wouldn't that allow for an even closer comparison between the two libraries. Though price wise and also concept wise to me, Sonokinetic has hit one out of the ballpark.


----------



## MusicIstheBest

Jeremy Spencer said:


> @Sonokinetic BV please redo your tutorial videos in stereo!


But the library is in mono, man. No more phasing!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Wes Antczak said:


> Regarding the similarity with the Bergesen demo. Personally, I find that a very good thing. I mean, wouldn't that allow for an even closer comparison between the two libraries. Though price wise and also concept wise to me, Sonokinetic has hit one out of the ballpark.


we don't think that's ok though - we are removing the demo for now - we had no idea!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Go To 11 said:


> I'm holding off on watching any of the videos for now, please let us know when they're up and running in stereo. And congrats!


do check out the audio demos though while we figure out where the problem lies wiith the uploaded videos


----------



## Casiquire

These sound so nice and big! Congrats on the release


----------



## Go To 11

Sonokinetic BV said:


> do check out the audio demos though while we figure out where the problem lies wiith the uploaded videos


Thanks, I'm listening to the playlist now and loving it!


----------



## muziksculp

OK, Purchased, now Printing pdf User's Manual . 

Listening to the demos on Soundcloud, these are some of the best strings I heard for a while. So, natural, and realistic. Love what I'm hearing. 🧡🧡🧡


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> OK, Purchased, now Printing pdf User's Manual .


That was quick 😂


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> That was quick 😂


Why waste time.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> OK, Purchased, now Printing pdf User's Manual .
> 
> Listening to the demos on Soundcloud, these are some of the best strings I heard for a while. So, natural, and realistic. Love what I'm hearing. 🧡🧡🧡


that means a lot, thank you


----------



## RMH

muziksculp said:


> OK, Purchased, now Printing pdf User's Manual .
> 
> Listening to the demos on Soundcloud, these are some of the best strings I heard for a while. So, natural, and realistic. Love what I'm hearing. 🧡🧡🧡


It's a perfect execution!
A few demo really captured my taste!


----------



## Maximvs

TomaeusD said:


> They're here.


Thanks a lot for pointing it out!

Cheers,

Max


----------



## micalclark

Sounds gorgeous and the price is great. That 97GB size has me balking a little bit. My SSDs only have so much space left on them :(


----------



## Casiquire

micalclark said:


> Sounds gorgeous and the price is great. That 97GB size has me balking a little bit. My SSDs only have so much space left on them :(


It has true recorded divisi, so the space is double what a standard setup would be. As a divisi lover, i think 97gb seems worth it


----------



## MusicIstheBest

basically getting full sized and chamber strings in one package, sounds amazing.


----------



## Getsumen

That pricing is nuts (In a very good way :D). Congrats on the release, this looks real promising!


----------



## lucky909091

For me as a longtime fan of Sonokinetic this is a must-have.
Well done Sonokinetic!


----------



## dzilizzi

Okay, downloading part 5 of 49..... I really should be working.


----------



## Leo

I bought immediately, I didn't even watch the first video to the end.
This price is incredible, and strings sound awesome, divisi, just wow!

Congratulation Sonokinetic.


----------



## jazzman7

Leo said:


> I bought immediately, I didn't even watch the first video to the end.
> This price is incredible, and strings sound awesome, divisi, just wow!
> 
> Congratulation Sonokinetic.


Agreed! Fastest big purchase I've ever made!


----------



## emasters

Looks great! And thanks for the generous intro discount. Adding in the 50% off Sono-Points discount, was 99.99 Euro -- what a nice holiday surprise


----------



## Robert_G

Ugh......this caught me off guard


----------



## korruptkey

Well shit, I guess that's the 5th acquired string library for 2021.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

Would Sonokinetic Da Capo be a good choice to use with Sonokinetic Strings ? 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

yes, it would, but equally many other libraries will blend well and of course we have our own dedicated woodwind library, and we are in the 12 days of Christmas, so you never know what Santa has up his sleeve


----------



## AndyP

Have I ever mentioned that you can't have enough string libraries?
And that just now when the share prices are falling like ripe tomatoes ... 
Stealthy look into the wallet ...


----------



## NekujaK

​


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> yes, it would, but equally many other libraries will blend well and of course we have our own dedicated woodwind library, and we are in the 12 days of Christmas, so you never know what Santa has up his sleeve


Thanks for the helpful feedback. 

The dedicated Woodwinds library is a nice option, but you made me more excited about what could be up Santa's sleeve during the 12 days of Christmas. I will wait and see. I'm guessing there is something else that will excite me coming soon.


----------



## koolkeys

Ugh, was thinking I would avoid more purchases this year. Orchestral/Chamber strings WITH a runs engine, sequencing, full divisi, etc. for this price? 

That's not fair.


----------



## jazzman7

koolkeys said:


> Ugh, was thinking I would avoid more purchases this year. Orchestral/Chamber strings WITH a runs engine, sequencing, full divisi, etc. for this price?
> 
> That's not fair.


The GAS is strong with this one. I'm at 80% downloaded


----------



## Marko Cifer

Of course you released this now, and not roughly a week earlier, before I already picked up another library...


----------



## MaxOctane

@Sonokinetic BV I just installed and it seems to be missing NKI instrument #8, which I presume is celli mix. ?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

i maxoctane, that is a weird one. We can issue a hot fix for that with a small download. Looking into it now


----------



## doctoremmet

Marko Cifer said:


> Of course you released this now, and not roughly a week earlier, before I already picked up another library...


Next time we’ll have them call you first. Terribly sorry for the inconvenience


----------



## MaxOctane

Sonokinetic BV said:


> i maxoctane, that is a weird one. We can issue a hot fix for that with a small download. Looking into it now


There were zero glitches with the download, by the way.

* Before I even tried downloading the new lib, I downloaded and installed the latest Sonokinetic Manager (Version 1.2.1)
* I'm on MacOS Big Sur 11.3.1
* Downloaded the library without issues
* .nki #8 is simply missing inside ".../Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings/Instruments"


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

yes, that has been spotted and will be rectified with a hot fix


----------



## muziksculp

I will wait for the fix to begin downloading.

@Sonokinetic BV , 

Can you please notify us when the download missing file issue is fixed. 

Thanks.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

will do


----------



## Hendrixon

dzilizzi said:


> Okay, downloading part 5 of 49..... I really should be working.


You waited a long time for this one!
Waiting to hear what you think


----------



## muziksculp

Some quality reading material for today.


----------



## Zanshin

There will be a test tomorrow @muziksculp, study up!


----------



## AndyP

Is there controllable vibrato or variations that can be blended in?
The videos and demos sound like this library is on the less vibrato side.


----------



## muziksculp

AndyP said:


> Is there controllable vibrato or variations that can be blended in?
> The videos and demos sound like this library is on the less vibrato side.


From the User's Manual :

Tips & Tricks (last page of the manual)

Quote : " *TIPS & TRICKS*

• When you stack articulations the first one you select will be at the top of the Morph controller range, so if you want Expression to control vibrato, select Expressive first, hold it and then select Straight."


----------



## artinro

Just want to make sure I understand a few things: The marcatos are all the same sample and the lengths are time stretches….These aren’t separate samples, correct? Similarly, the dynamics aren’t recorded dynamics but mod-wheel automated patches that work across all long articulations? Are the short notes all separate recordings or do they employ time stretching too? Thanks for the clarity!


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

Could you elaborate a little further on what the 'Shared Tail' System for the shorts actually does ?

The user's manual mentions Quote: 

" _We covered all of the most-used articulations in up to four velocities, and we devised a 'shared tail' system for the shorts that provides you with a greater variety of round robins without unnecessarily increasing the memory load._ "

THANKS


----------



## artomatic

I have so many string libraries!
But dang, the price is so tempting....
Downloading now


----------



## alanmcp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> will do


Nice to see you're extremely active here Sonokinetic, I've been waiting for a support issue fix for over a week now...


----------



## Sunny Schramm

artomatic said:


> I have so many string libraries!
> But dang, the price is so tempting....
> Downloading now


yep - I will at least try to resist eleven days to feel better buying it in the last hours of the sale


----------



## Robert_G

Sonokinetic BV said:


> ......



Is it expected for there to be brass and woodwinds in the future that will be recorded in the same room?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

artinro said:


> Just want to make sure I understand a few things: The marcatos are all the same sample and the lengths are time stretches….These aren’t separate samples, correct?  Similarly, the dynamics aren’t recorded dynamics but mod-wheel automated patches that work across all long articulations? Are the short notes all separate recordings or do they employ time stretching too? Thanks for the clarity!


Yes the shorter Marcato samples are made from the long-ish one. This allowed us to sync them to tempo without having to do time machine. The Straight and Expressive Marcato Morph into the sustains after the initial Marcato attack.

The Dynamics are indeed mod wheel automations that also take velocity layer Xfade into account and work across all sustained articulations, and in the case of Fortepiano and Sfz Cresc there is an attack added as well. 

The short articulations all have dedicated recordings. They also use a shared tail approach, where we use many different attacks with fewer tails, because the tail part is more generic. This way we can offer more distinct attacks without adding too much to the RAM load.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

alanmcp said:


> Nice to see you're extremely active here Sonokinetic, I've been waiting for a support issue fix for over a week now...


that's un-Sonokinetic-y  We have been extremely busy getting these Strings out the door though!


----------



## muziksculp

Robert_G said:


> Is it expected for there to be brass and woodwinds in the future that will be recorded in the same room?


Aaaahhhh that would be awesome !


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Robert_G said:


> Is it expected for there to be brass and woodwinds in the future that will be recorded in the same room?


We have already recorded woodwinds in the same room, and they will get an update to use the same engine the Strings do, and benefit from all the enhancements


----------



## artinro

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Yes the shorter Marcato samples are made from the long-ish one. This allowed us to sync them to tempo without having to do time machine. The Straight and Expressive Marcato Morph into the sustains after the initial Marcato attack.
> 
> The Dynamics are indeed mod wheel automations that also take velocity layer Xfade into account and work across all sustained articulations, and in the case of Fortepiano and Sfz Cresc there is an attack added as well.
> 
> The short articulations all have dedicated recordings. They also use a shared tail approach, where we use many different attacks with fewer tails, because the tail part is more generic. This way we can offer more distinct attacks without adding too much to the RAM load.


Thank you for the explanation. Appreciated


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> The short articulations all have dedicated recordings. They also use a shared tail approach, where we use many different attacks with fewer tails, because the tail part is more generic. This way we can offer more distinct attacks without adding too much to the RAM load.


OK. That's what I wanted to know. 

THANKS.


----------



## ResidentSmeagol

Sonokinetic BV said:


> that means a lot, thank you


Be careful what you wish for! If Muziksculp has possession of your strings, are you prepared for the endless posts every week about when your next update is coming out?


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We have already recorded woodwinds in the same room, and they will get an update to use the same engine the Strings do, and benefit from all the enhancements


Will that happen soon ? 

Should I buy the Woodwinds now, or wait for a better surprise to show up in the next 10 days ?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,
> 
> Could you elaborate a little further on what the 'Shared Tail' System for the shorts actually does ?
> 
> The user's manual mentions Quote:
> 
> " _We covered all of the most-used articulations in up to four velocities, and we devised a 'shared tail' system for the shorts that provides you with a greater variety of round robins without unnecessarily increasing the memory load._ "
> 
> THANKS


We have devised the shared tail system for the bells collection, because the bells had extremely long tails that sounded very similar to each other, and we needed many attacks to avoid machine gunning. 

The idea is that you use fewer tail bits (max 3 in strings) and more attack bits (up to 10 if I'm not mistaken). We devised a system with automated lookup tables that makes it possible to have random numbers of samples per note/velocity layer, so we could use all the usable material in the recordings, rather than having to settle for the lowest common denominator.

This way you have more distinct note attacks without clogging up the ram with the tails. 
We bake in the Xfades between them in the Pro Tools session so they are smooth and don't use any extra processing in Kontakt. 

Hope that explains the system!


----------



## Remnant

I frankly can not see how I do not buy this library. It seems like it is just made for me. Full orchestra string sections recorded in divisi so allowing for chamber size as well. Polyphonic legato with slurred, bowed and portamento. For some people there will not be enough articulations and mic positions, but for me it is perfect. Too much choice in those departments paralyzes me and I have other libraries for textural or alternative articulations. These usual suspects are just right. Most libraries allow for the stacking of articulations but the morphing between articulations with crossfading seems really cool. And then to boot the runs and phrases. I might wait a bit for a few of you excellent folks to confirm it sounds as good as the demos seem to show, but to me this hits just a perfect sweet spot for me. And the size of the library and price are just right too. This seems to be extremely well thought out and executed (I actually texted this to my wallet earlier to convince it, but thought I would put it here too).


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> Will that happen soon ?
> 
> Should I buy the Woodwinds now, or wait for a better surprise to show up in the next 10 days ?


it will be a while - we have a bit of a backlog because of this massive Strings project. There are a few product updates planned, and also a couple of new libraries that we have already recorded and that are waiting on the shelf - and we are recording again soon too! 

The Woodwinds port should happen in 2022 though!


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We have devised the shared tail system for the bells collection, because the bells had extremely long tails that sounded very similar to each other, and we needed many attacks to avoid machine gunning.
> 
> The idea is that you use fewer tail bits (max 3 in strings) and more attack bits (up to 10 if I'm not mistaken). We devised a system with automated lookup tables that makes it possible to have random numbers of samples per note/velocity layer, so we could use all the usable material in the recordings, rather than having to settle for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> This way you have more distinct note attacks without clogging up the ram with the tails.
> We bake in the Xfades between them in the Pro Tools session so they are smooth and don't use any extra processing in Kontakt.
> 
> Hope that explains the system!


THANKS 

Yes, very clear now. I appreciate your time.

Oh.. and about the Woodwinds, I'm guessing the update would be free if I purchased them today, when do you expect the Woodwinds update to be ready ? I hope it's not a very pre-mature question.


EDIT : Oh .. missed your answer about the Woodwinds. I like the way they sound, so I might just get them now, Is the current 199. Euro Price the lowest I can expect during your special discount event ? 

Thanks.


----------



## Wes Antczak

Wow and wow! So... I think it would be safe to say that Sonokinetic have *truly* outdone themselves with this release and completely raised their bar into a whole new octave. Very VERY well done!!! I think the ability to create our own phrases is particularly brilliant! The other features of this library are also absolutely amazing. A big thank you for this one and Christmas did indeed come a bit early this year! Now back to download hell, lol.


----------



## jazzman7

AndyP said:


> Is there controllable vibrato or variations that can be blended in?
> The videos and demos sound like this library is on the less vibrato side.


Not controllable vibrato...Two different sustains. One is labeled "Expressive" and has more Vib


----------



## AndyP

jazzman7 said:


> Not controllable vibrato...Two different sustains. One is labeled "Expressive" and has more Vib


Thanks for the answer! I think I still need time and need to listen more purely.


----------



## chrisav

I was expecting these to be released during the 12 days sale (although I was thinking maybe towards the end). What I wasn't expecting was them to be so damn affordable! I had prepared myself for skipping these due to a price point incompatible with having just come out on the other side of BF, but 199 EUR (+VAT) for a full bread and butter strings library with divisi and runs? With such a buttery smooth and neutral tone (and I mean neutral in the best sense)? With sul tasto and sul pont legato and morphable layers? 

Ooooof. 

I'm gonna have to go full cheapskate on the Christmas gifts this year...


----------



## emasters

MaxOctane said:


> * .nki #8 is simply missing inside ".../Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings/Instruments"


If you use the Sonokinetic Download Manager, nki #8 is missing. If you download with Native Access using the Serial number, nki #8 is there. However, with the Sonokinetic Download Manager, there's an additional MIDI folder, which is not included in the Native Access download. Took the missing items from each downloader, to create a complete download


----------



## muziksculp

The *Sonokinetic Woodwinds* library is 5 years old, and doesn't seem to have any Legatos. 

I think I will wait and see what the updated version of this library offers next year.


----------



## muziksculp

emasters said:


> If you download with Native Access using the Serial number, nki #8 is there.


Thanks for mentioning this. I didn't know it was possible to use Native Access to download this library, and it has nothing missing. 

I will use Native Access to download it.


----------



## Marko Cifer

AndyP said:


> Thanks for the answer! I think I still need time and need to listen more purely.


This has been mentioned in another post earlier already, but in case you missed it - you can stack the longs with and without vibrato and then cross-fade between them using Expression, thanks to the Morph feature. The manual explicitly states how to achieve this.

For people who have already picked this up: how much of the room is baked into the samples, and how much of it is controllable by mixing the mic positions? In the Mix video, it did seem like the close mics still had quite a defined tail to them.


----------



## Wes Antczak

Good to know regarding Native Access, I may try that route. THANKS!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Wes Antczak said:


> Good to know regarding Native Access, I may try that route. THANKS!


If you do use Native Access there are a couple of things to note:
- you need 300GB free disk space
- the version they have in their installer needs the MIDI Files folder added - we still have to arrange that with them - saving your Phrases won't work without that midi folder
- the .nkr on our server has a few fixes too
So please if you download through NI, download just the instruments.rar from our server afterwards


----------



## Go To 11

muziksculp said:


> The *Sonokinetic Woodwinds* library is 5 years old, and doesn't seem to have any Legatos.
> 
> I think I will wait and see what the updated version of this library offers next year.


The Woods have legatos. If I were you I would wait 10 days until the sale plays out just in case. You can’t expect them to share their sale plans with you in advance so time will tell. You did just get a new string library after all..! Should keep you going for 10 days or less.


----------



## jbuhler

Go To 11 said:


> The Woods have legatos. If I were you I would wait 10 days until the sale plays out just in case. You can’t expect them to share their sale plans with you in advance so time will tell. You did just get a new string library after all..! Should keep you going for 10 days or less.


You are underestimating the great and powerful @muziksculp's appetite for VI libraries, especially string libraries. I've seen him devour whole string libraries in a single setting and be asking for new patches and updates within hours. It's truly remarkable!

(@muziksculp: I'm joking.)


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

@muziksculp I love that you have self-irony and can see the fun in the matter too whenever some of us are teasing you with good humor 🙂👍


----------



## Wes Antczak

I think I will stick with Sonokinetic (and not Native Access) in that case. No worries and no rush.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

jbuhler said:


> You are underestimating the great and powerful @muziksculp's appetite for VI libraries, especially string libraries. I've seen him devour whole string libraries in a single setting and be asking for new patches and updates within hours. It's truly remarkable!
> 
> (@muziksculp: I'm joking.)


There will be updates for sure. 
These strings have been devised as a modular platform upon which we will build further. There were some functions in the instrument that we left out for now because they weren't ready for scrutiny, and they will be added in at a later point. 
Also I know of some areas that can still be a bit temperamental - mainly around the saving phrases menu. We have a manager application in beta that will make managing your phrases easier in the future, and that should also allow for the import of custom banks of phrases. 
There's lots to come still, don't worry


----------



## muziksculp

Go To 11 said:


> The Woods have legatos. If I were you I would wait 10 days until the sale plays out just in case. You can’t expect them to share their sale plans with you in advance so time will tell. You did just get a new string library after all..! Should keep you going for 10 days or less.


OK. Thanks, hopefully they will be discounted more. I didn't notice they have legato in the video, it only mentioned sustain. Was the legato added later, or do they imply the legato when they mention sustain. Not sure.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> OK. Thanks, hopefully they will be discounted more. I didn't notice they have legato in the video, it only mentioned sustain. Was the legato added later, or do they imply the legato when they mention sustain. Not sure.


the woodwinds also have a poly legato system built in


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> the woodwinds also have a poly legato system built in


Wow.. What is the latest version of the Woodwinds Library ? 

Thanks. I will wait and see if it goes on special sale on one of the upcoming days of your 12 day sale, and if it does, I will surely buy it. I like what I hear.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Sonokinetic BV said:


> the woodwinds also have a poly legato system built in


Do you guys know your videos have been uploaded in Mono??


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> Wow.. What is the latest version of the Woodwinds Library ?
> 
> Thanks. I will wait and see if it goes on special sale on one of the upcoming days of your 12 day sale, and if it does, I will surely buy it. I like what I hear.


there is only one version of it - it will get a big update in the future though where we will port it to use the new modular script environment


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Do you guys know your videos have been uploaded in Mono??


We have figured this out and are now replacing them one by one in the background


----------



## Soundbed

I skipped through some of the (Lib Only) Soundcloud demos and I hear a lot of breath and life. Is it possible I "need" yet another strings library? Someone tell me it's not so.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We have figured this out and are now replacing them one by one in the background


Do you have an articulation walkthrough vid?


----------



## muziksculp

Soundbed said:


> I skipped through some of the (Lib Only) Soundcloud demos and I hear a lot of breath and life. Is it possible I "need" yet another strings library? Someone tell me it's not so.


YES. You need another Strings Library, you always do. What kind of a question is that ?


----------



## RMH

Sonokinetic BV said:


> there is only one version of it - it will get a big update in the future though where we will port it to use the new modular script environment











Woodwinds Ensembles - Sonokinetic - Sample libraries and Virtual Instruments


Orchestral Woodwinds




www.sonokinetic.net





Is it this library?


----------



## Alchemedia

Soundbed said:


> I skipped through some of the (Lib Only) Soundcloud demos and I hear a lot of breath and life. Is it possible I "need" yet another strings library? Someone tell me it's not so.


Your YouTube channel has an insatiable appetite.


----------



## Marko Cifer

Soundbed said:


> I skipped through some of the (Lib Only) Soundcloud demos and I hear a lot of breath and life. Is it possible I "need" yet another strings library? Someone tell me it's not so.


If you do end up deciding to pick it up, please consider making a video on it. I really enjoyed your coverage on some other string libraries.


----------



## muziksculp

A heads up on the Sonokinetic Download fix for any missing content of the Strings Library would be appreciated. 

I plan to download it via Sonokinetic downloads, instead of Native Access. But would like to get a green light that all is OK with the content whenever it is fixed. 

Thanks.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Do you have an articulation walkthrough vid?


yes it is called 'play' - also check out 'stack & morph' and 'legato' for play examples


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

RMH said:


> Woodwinds Ensembles - Sonokinetic - Sample libraries and Virtual Instruments
> 
> 
> Orchestral Woodwinds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sonokinetic.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it this library?


it is


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> A heads up on the Sonokinetic Download fix for any missing content of the Strings Library would be appreciated.
> 
> I plan to download it via Sonokinetic downloads, instead of Native Access. But would like to get a green light that all is OK with the content whenever it is fixed.
> 
> Thanks.


yes that's the way to go - we will stiil add the one missing instrument (Celli Mix), but will probably do that in an update since we don't want to break people's downloads. 
Other than that the version on our server is the one you want, because it has the latest nkr that has a few last minute fixes for things that came up while doing the videos after NI had built their installer, and it has the MIDI Files folder* that I forgot to put in the product folder on the NI server when I sent them the instruments. (because for unencoded instruments that is in a different location)

*this is an empty folder but it needs to be there in order for you to be able to store your phrases for shared use between the 5 orchestral sections...


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> but will probably do that in an update since we don't want to break people's downloads.


So, if I use the Sonokinetic Downloads I will have a missing file, how do I get the missing file ? 

If I wait for the update (I'm guessing the next Library Update), I can download it via Sonokinetic without any missing content, but will have to wait for the update to be released. So when is the update expected ? 

Thanks, and sorry If I'm asking too many questions


----------



## JonSolo

For any here who have not used Sonokinetics Downloads manager, the process is easy.

Download your files now (no need to wait for the update).

When they update, a notification will appear next to the library. The download will only be the files necessary to do the update and will not require you to redownload the whole library.

So don't waste another minute. Download now.


----------



## muziksculp

JonSolo said:


> For any here who have not used Sonokinetics Downloads manager, the process is easy.
> 
> Download your files now (no need to wait for the update).
> 
> When they update, a notification will appear next to the library. The download will only be the files necessary to do the update and will not require you to redownload the whole library.
> 
> So don't waste another minute. Download now.


Thanks. But I would rather wait for all the content of the library to be in place, rather than wait for an update notification to appear on the Downloader. I can wait, a day or two. No problem.


----------



## Soundbed

emasters said:


> Looks great! And thanks for the generous intro discount. Adding in the 50% off Sono-Points discount, was 99.99 Euro -- what a nice holiday surprise


Wait. SonoPoints? Oh. Nevermind. I only have 2.


----------



## Soundbed

The phrases video is pretty impressive!


----------



## Aldunate

Can we expect Dorico playback templates?


----------



## jazzman7

I've noticed the runs play gets cranky and does not play a number of times in my test. Even when hitting the notes as instructed several times. I hit it from C# to D the next octave up, it plays. Repeat, and it will not. Switch to another note, and that seems to get it going. Go back to the original notes and...Nothing. Try a few times and then It plays.... then suddenly will not play again for several tries. I was using it in standalone mode BTW. Anyone else notice this? I've hit it hard and soft on velocity to make sure that wasn't it.


----------



## MaxOctane

@Sonokinetic BV Could you just post the 8. Celli Mix.nki file here directly?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

The video tutorials should now be playing correctly


----------



## jazzman7

alchemist said:


> same here
> 
> Have also noticed a bunch of other issues too. Not sure where to log them?
> 
> *Warning to all:* when playing the sul tasto legato on Violins 1, be careful around D4, it blew my ears out when it jumped in volume.. not cool to miss that in qc @Sonokinetic BV


Not glad to hear of bugs, but grateful for the confirmation.


----------



## alchemist

jazzman7 said:


> Not glad to hear of bugs, but grateful for the confirmation.





alchemist said:


> same here
> 
> Have also noticed a bunch of other issues too. Not sure where to log them?
> 
> *Warning to all:* when playing the sul tasto legato on Violins 1, be careful around D4, it blew my ears out when it jumped in volume.. not cool to miss that in qc @Sonokinetic BV


Sorry I deleted that post. Thought I should contact them privately first before coming here since it did just get released.

However do be careful with that Violins 1 Sul Tasto articulation. If you load the close mic and the tree mic at the same time the notes around D4 are dangerous to the ears.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

jazzman7 said:


> I've noticed the runs play gets cranky and does not play a number of times in my test. Even when hitting the notes as instructed several times. I hit it from C# to D the next octave up, it plays. Repeat, and it will not. Switch to another note, and that seems to get it going. Go back to the original notes and...Nothing. Try a few times and then It plays.... then suddenly will not play again for several tries. I was using it in standalone mode BTW. Anyone else notice this? I've hit it hard and soft on velocity to make sure that wasn't it.


Yes I should have probably mentioned this in the video - after a run is played the midi file for the midi drag will be created and saved, this is an asynchronous event meaning it will halt the engine for a bit.

This only happens when you're just playing around with it and you trigger your second run at the exact moment this happens. When you're in a project and the DAW is running this can never happen because the file is then written on DAW stop only. 

I thought about making the midi file creation optional but I so liked it being automated 

Maybe in an update I should make an option in the menu for that!


----------



## jazzman7

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Yes I should have probably mentioned this in the video - after a run is played the midi file for the midi drag will be created and saved, this is an asynchronous event meaning it will halt the engine for a bit.
> 
> This only happens when you're just playing around with it and you trigger your second run at the exact moment this happens. When you're in a project and the DAW is running this can never happen because the file is then written on DAW stop only.
> 
> I thought about making the midi file creation optional but I so liked it being automated
> 
> Maybe in an update I should make an option in the menu for that!


Ahh interesting. I saw that and waited for it to reset. It continued to do it, but was better. I should put it up in the DAW, but had something else going at the time. I'll put it on and see how it reacts. Thanks for the quick response!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

alchemist said:


> Sorry I deleted that post. Thought I should contact them privately first before coming here since it did just get released.
> 
> However do be careful with that Violins 1 Sul Tasto articulation. If you load the close mic and the tree mic at the same time the notes around D4 are dangerous to the ears.


Yes please report this in our support - is this with the NI installer patch? If so try downloading only the instruments.rar from the Sonokinetic Manager! (I don't have that issue here so would love to knoww what is going on there)

There could be some initialisation issues in the beginning now as we get to grips with the NI encoded versions, but this will definitely be sorted soon! 

UPDATE - you're right, in the close mic there is a jump there! will fix


----------



## jazzman7

jazzman7 said:


> Ahh interesting. I saw that and waited for it to reset. It continued to do it, but was better. I should put it up in the DAW, but had something else going at the time. I'll put it on and see how it reacts. Thanks for the quick response!


OK. Got it. As the DAW is advancing, it's responsive. Many thanks. The switchable preference sounds like a good idea! Appreciate the pointer


----------



## alchemist

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Yes please report this in our support - is this with the NI installer patch? If so try downloading only the instruments.rar from the Sonokinetic Manager! (I don't have that issue here so would love to knoww what is going on there)
> 
> There could be some initialisation issues in the beginning now as we get to grips with the NI encoded versions, but this will definitely be sorted soon!



I installed using the Sonokinetic Manager. Have submitted a couple of tickets for a few bugs 

The library sounds gorgeous overall though. Lovely natural tone. I think it may become my main go-to once it gets polished up!

Had a quick question, is there any way to turn off the positioner and have the raw mic signal?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

alchemist said:


> I installed using the Sonokinetic Manager. Have submitted a couple of tickets for a few bugs
> 
> The library sounds gorgeous overall though. Lovely natural tone. I think it may become my main go-to once it gets polished up!
> 
> Had a quick question, is there any way to turn off the positioner and have the raw mic signal?







you could Bypass the Stereo Modeler on each of the busses - so that's 1 close 2 decca 3 wide 4 balcony


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

jazzman7 said:


> OK. Got it. As the DAW is advancing, it's responsive. Many thanks. The switchable preference sounds like a good idea! Appreciate the pointer


yes, if at any point the runs get confused because of this, press a single note a couple times and the buffer should be reset


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

alchemist said:


> The library sounds gorgeous overall though. Lovely natural tone. I think it may become my main go-to once it gets polished up!


NIce!
Yes we will collect findings and do a first update soon - with a project of this scale there's bound to be a few issues even after thorough beta testing  Like I mentioned before, we are into this project for the long run and it will develop further for sure!


----------



## lucky909091

Some patches like "0 violins 1" or "5 violins 1 mix" show a snapshot in Kontakt.
But there is no snapshots folder in the library folder.
Why?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

lucky909091 said:


> Some patches like "0 violins 1" or "5 violins 1 mix" show a snapshot in Kontakt.
> But there is no snapshots folder in the library folder.
> Why?


we were going to do snapshots but couldn't make it in time for release with the NI approval time. I'm pretty sure we will add pre-purged snapshots in a future update because we really like them. 
We weren't aware that each snapshot needs an individual NKS assessment in the NI approval process so we had to take them out for now in order to get the instrument released - looks like some traces of them remain . 
We've never done snapshots in any instrument before so that part is new to us!


----------



## Marko Cifer

Sonokinetic BV said:


> The video tutorials should now be playing correctly


Much better. But please let know whoever did the reuploads that they missed turning off the overlay elements for one of the Vimeo videos (the "Play" one).


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Marko Cifer said:


> Much better. But please let know whoever did the reuploads that they missed turning off the overlay elements for one of the Vimeo videos (the "Play" one).


that would be me after a 20 hour work day 
will fix !


----------



## RMH

muk said:


> 7-6-5-4-3


@Sonokinetic BV 

Is this the section size?

it's not at the level of a symphony, but it seems a little bigger than a chamber.


----------



## Marko Cifer

RMH said:


> @Sonokinetic BV
> 
> Is this the section size?
> 
> it's not at the level of a symphony, but it seems a little bigger than a chamber.


You can find the section sizes (and the divisi) on the website:

- 16 Violins I (9+7)
- 12 Violins II (7+5)
- 10 Violas (6+4)
- 10 Celli (6+4)
- 8 Basses (5+3)


----------



## RMH

Marko Cifer said:


> You can find the section sizes (and the divisi) on the website:
> 
> - 16 Violins I (9+7)
> - 12 Violins II (7+5)
> - 10 Violas (6+4)
> - 10 Celli (6+4)
> - 8 Basses (5+3)


Thank you!


----------



## Fry777

Sonokinetic BV said:


> The Dynamics are indeed mod wheel automations that also take velocity layer Xfade into account and work across all sustained articulations, and in the case of Fortepiano and Sfz Cresc there is an attack added as well.


Not sure I understand this well... Note attack aside, does the use of modwheel equate to crossfading across different dynamic layers for the sustains ? Or is the modwheel only equivalent to an EQ filtering over a sole recorded layer ?


----------



## lucky909091

For your bug collection one hint:

Load the patch "Cellos" and leave it like it is (Sustains - Expressive).
Play the note "G 2" for a short time (like marcato), release the note and hear the release sample (in the reverb).
It sounds out of tune (around a halftone deeper).

If you cannot hear it, then press the notes "C2" and "G2" together for a short time.
Then it seems more obvious.

Some other patches are also affected.

Edit: every second sample of this note seems to be affected.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Fry777 said:


> Not sure I understand this well... Note attack aside, does the use of modwheel equate to crossfading across different dynamic layers for the sustains ? Or is the modwheel only equivalent to an EQ filtering over a sole recorded layer ?


Yes it crossfades through up to four velocity layers. Some have less, like Harmonics - we didn't do FF for that 
We wrote custom Xfade curves in the script that are also used for the morephing between articulations...


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

lucky909091 said:


> For your bug collection one hint:
> 
> Load the patch "Cellos" and leave it like it is (Sustains - Expressive).
> Play the note "G 2" for a short time (like marcato), release the note and hear the release sample (in the reverb).
> It sounds out of tune (around a halftone deeper).
> 
> If you cannot hear it, then press the notes "C2" and "G2" together for a short time.
> Then it seems more obvious.
> 
> Some other patches are also affected.
> 
> Edit: every second sample of this note seems to be affected.


thanks we logged this in the list


----------



## chrisav

Do all the short artics have four velocity layers?


----------



## alchemist

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Yes it crossfades through up to four velocity layers. Some have less, like Harmonics - we didn't do FF for that
> We wrote custom Xfade curves in the script that are also used for the morephing between articulations...


Personally can't get those dynamics to work, they don't do anything on my end (probably user error?)

They just hold the note quietly and then nothing else happens


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

chrisav said:


> Do all the short artics have four velocity layers?


Bartok Pizzicato have 2 and Col Legno have 3 - the other shorts have 4


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

alchemist said:


> Personally can't get those dynamics to work, they don't do anything on my end (probably user error?)
> 
> They just hold the note quietly and then nothing else happens


They need an initial mod wheel level to set the top, so setting your mod wheel to the highest point you want it to go to and then playing should do the trick - another thing I should probably add to the Manual and Videos


----------



## dzilizzi

Almost time for the next one! (and the first is still downloading.)

Edit: wrong thread. I'm watching 3 of these and haven't had my morning coffee.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

dzilizzi said:


> Almost time for the next one! (and the first is still downloading.)
> 
> Edit: wrong thread. I'm watching 3 of these and haven't had my morning coffee.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

If I understand correctly (from the videos), I can import MIDI phrases from my other Sonokinetic libraries? This is really cool. Could phrases also be shared amongst users?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Jeremy Spencer said:


> If I understand correctly (from the videos), I can import MIDI phrases from my other Sonokinetic libraries? This is really cool. Could phrases also be shared amongst users?


Yes, if you save a phrase in the menu inside orchestral strings it will appear in the MIDI files folder inside the product folder. Choose your file names carefully though because it will overwrite files with names that already exist in that folder


----------



## ism

Wow, a very lovely sound. It really fits with the whole ethos that's captured in the phrase libraries. Very beautiful, and very nice work @Sonokinetic BV .

I seem to have gone a little bit crazy with, quite specifically, string libraries this year. But will be keeping an eye on this one.

Also: *love* the sul tasto.


----------



## Delboy

Just be aware these prices are without vat ! so 199.99 is actually 242 in the UK = £208 
Guess most of you realised that anyhow
Ive been offered a good Edu price for CSS for my son and any future adds so probably will go with that in the new year for next string library thanks to the recommendations from this forum


----------



## synthnut1

So what’s the actual price US ?


----------



## Trash Panda

synthnut1 said:


> So what’s the actual price US ?


$225'ish with current conversion rates.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

synthnut1 said:


> So what’s the actual price US ?


For US purchases we don’t have to add VAT, that’s only EU and UK, because we’re based in the Netherlands. If you have a European VAT number you can have it deducted though…


----------



## zimm83

Great library ! Waiting for an in depth walkthrough and in depth phrases review.
The tutos are great, but would like to see those phrases functions more deeply.


----------



## synthnut1

Trash Panda said:


> $225'ish with current conversion rates.


Thank you !


----------



## homie

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> If someone used a VPN to change IP to a non-EU country and had forgotten all about this, then ordered the lib on your homepage and paid with an EU credit card...would that pass fine or be picked up as an error by your order system?


That would be tax evasion. Please remember that you probably, or at least your fellow countrymen, voted for high taxes. Governments take that pretty serious, because it's part of their power. You can get away with certain crimes pretty easily, but the fun definitely ends at tax evasion (for common people at least). Just saying..


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

How many velocity layer for the sustains and legatos? Thanks.


----------



## dzilizzi

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> If someone used a VPN to change IP to a non-EU country and had forgotten all about this, then ordered the lib on your homepage and paid with an EU credit card...would that pass fine or be picked up as an error by your order system?


When doing something illegal, it is always best not to announce it first......


----------



## muziksculp

@Sonokinetic BV ,

I would appreciate it if you could you notify us when the Library update is ready, which fixes the missing celli file issue. 

I'm waiting for that to happen before downloading it. I don't want to have any missing files issues after downloading/using the library. 

Thanks


----------



## axb312

zimm83 said:


> Great library ! Waiting for an in depth walkthrough and in depth phrases review.
> The tutos are great, but would like to see those phrases functions more deeply.


Yes please. Hopefully before 19th December? @Sonokinetic BV


----------



## Trash Panda

dzilizzi said:


> When doing something illegal, it is always best not to announce it first......


Unless you're rich. Then you can announce the criminal intent, commit it openly, brag about commiting the crime(s) publicly, never deny guilt and still get away with it as long as the right lawyers are working for you. :(


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

homie said:


> That would be tax evasion. Please remember that you probably, or at least your fellow countrymen, voted for high taxes. Governments take that pretty serious, because it's part of their power. You can get away with certain crimes pretty easily, but the fun definitely ends at tax evasion (for common people at least). Just saying..


They would probably then come to us to collect tax that we never received in the first place


----------



## koolkeys

So is the library 97GB installed, or is it compressed to 97GB? It isn't critical info, but just curious, lol. 

Brent


----------



## synthnut1

Trash Panda said:


> Unless you're rich. Then you can announce the criminal intent, commit it openly, brag about commiting the crime(s) publicly, never deny guilt and still get away with it as long as the right lawyers are working for you. :(


This is illegal ? .....to think that all this time that I thought that this was legal after watching the government operate like this ....Hmmmm.....go figure !!...Ya learn something new every day !!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

ncw is a compressed format so the compressed size is 97GB, but that is also the size it is once installed on your computer


----------



## koolkeys

Sonokinetic BV said:


> ncw is a compressed format so the compressed size is 97GB, but that is also the size it is once installed on your computer


That's what I was trying to find out. I know NCW is compressed, but didn't know if that was before or after compression. Don't mind me, I overthink everything, lolol. My buying decision doesn't hinge on the size or anything. I haven't bought yet, but I don't know what would cause me NOT to buy at this point, lol.

Brent


----------



## kgdrum

97 gigs? 

I might have missed it but is this library phrase based? 
Can it be played like a non-phrase based library?
Or is the answer both.

Thanks


----------



## Trash Panda

kgdrum said:


> 97 gigs?
> 
> I might have missed it but is this library phrase based?
> Can it be played like a non-phrase based library?
> Or is the answer both.
> 
> Thanks


Not phrase based, has a phrase building module.


----------



## kgdrum

Trash Panda said:


> Not phrase based, has a phrase building module.




Great Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## homie

Sonokinetic BV said:


> They would probably then come to us to collect tax that we never received in the first place


Ughhh.. the stuff nightmares are made of


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Let’s get back to talking about this new library instead of tax evation etc.

Apologizes for derailing the thread.


----------



## Tremendouz

@Sonokinetic BV Just noticed that the video on your website showcasing the mic positions ("Stack Mix") is still in mono. The rest are fine now though.


----------



## dzilizzi

Took a quick work break. Found the runs sound much better with the staccato articulation than straight. 

And then I have to try all the articulations with the runs builder......  

As expected, I am really liking the sound of this. Thanks @Sonokinetic BV


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

dzilizzi said:


> Took a quick work break. Found the runs sound much better with the staccato articulation than straight.
> 
> And then I have to try all the articulations with the runs builder......
> 
> As expected, I am really liking the sound of this. Thanks @Sonokinetic BV


and remember you can also drag them out and use any instrument of your choosing


----------



## muk

Looks like I am the first to post a user demo. This is in a _very_ rough state. It's just the library out of the box. No additional anything. No eq, no reverb. Only a limiter to bring up the volume a bit. I'll adjust the dynamic range of the library to get a bit more dynamic contrast. Haven't gotten around doing that yet. Apart from that it's me using the library for the first time. Really like it so far. Nice slight tuning variations between the section, which sound authentic on their own. And create a certain lushness when you use the divisi sections together. This here is using the full sections:

View attachment Emotional Strings 3 Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings.mp3


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muk said:


> Looks like I am the first to post a user demo. This is in a _very_ rough state. It's just the library out of the box. No additional anything. No eq, no reverb. Only a limiter to bring up the volume a bit. I'll adjust the dynamic range of the library to get a bit more dynamic contrast. Haven't gotten around doing that yet. Apart from that it's me using the library for the first time. Really like it so far. Nice slight tuning variations between the section, which sound authentic on their own. And create a certain lushness when you use the divisi sections together. This here is using the full sections:
> 
> View attachment Emotional Strings 3 Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings.mp3


Thanks for posting that! I think that sounds quite good for something with no massaging/polishing done to it yet! Maybe try the morph too in some places, and yes, some more dynamic movement  Legato transitions could maybe be slightly more pronounced - are you using auto mode?
About the slight variation - I found that too, when we were building it, as soon as the Divisi came together the sound became very rounded, it really adds something special, sort of a 3d aspect...


----------



## Wabashprof

I'm enjoying the cohesive sound of this library - @muk calls it lush, at that's spot on. I'm learning to use the Phrases builder, which is powerful and promising, but not as intuitive as I'm sure it will eventually become.

I'm noticing two issues: 1) The Violins II mix patch has a loud release at the end of each note in the long articulations. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it's harsh and difficult to blend with other instruments. 2) Not a problem per se, but the default 25 ms in the Legato configuration is far too fast for me when trying to play chords. A better piano player probably won't have this problem, but I need at least 50 ms to avoid notes dropping out when I'm playing chords in Polyphonic mode.

For me at least, I'm doing much better with midi in my DAW than playing live. Worth it to me for the genuinely expressive poly legato and auto divisi features.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Wabashprof said:


> I'm enjoying the cohesive sound of this library - @muk calls it lush, at that's spot on. I'm learning to use the Phrases builder, which is powerful and promising, but not as intuitive as I'm sure it will eventually become.


Yes we have lots of ideas for that already  
I haven't mentioned in the video but another quick way to record a phrase is by double tapping a phrase preset key (C3 and up). This is temperamental though if there is already a phrase on that preset.
We pivoted a bit from a system that was focused on saving in the menu, to a system where you mainly have a sketchpad in persistence with twelve phrases per instance, that will be saved with your DAW project, making saving in the menu optional. 
Actually the original idea was to just have a big record button and no phrase editing capabilities at all, but then we found that too limiting and it snowballed from there...we got very excited in the process
Another mode that I want to build in in the future is a rhythm mode where you would just hammer in a rhythmic pattern, and you can then play your own voicings and chords in the playable area rather than the chord area doing harmony and voice leading for you. 
Also I want to add recording of mod wheel while you record the phrase, and then make that relative to any mod wheel movement you do when you play back the phrase...



Wabashprof said:


> I'm noticing two issues: 1) The Violins II mix patch has a loud release at the end of each note in the long articulations. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it's harsh and difficult to blend with other instruments.


We noted this in our update notes, thanks!


Wabashprof said:


> 2) Not a problem per se, but the default 25 ms in the Legato configuration is far too fast for me when trying to play chords. A better piano player probably won't have this problem, but I need at least 50 ms to avoid notes dropping out when I'm playing chords in Polyphonic mode.


Yes this is definitely a personal setting, and also depends on the type of material you want to play/how agile you want the instrument to be. 


Wabashprof said:


> For me at least, I'm doing much better with midi in my DAW than playing live. Worth it to me for the genuinely expressive poly legato and auto divisi features.


----------



## muk

Thank you Sonokinetic. 



Sonokinetic BV said:


> Legato transitions could maybe be slightly more pronounced - are you using auto mode?


Yes, it's on auto mode here. For this slower piece, setting a bit more slurring and maybe raising the volume of the transitions might br a good idea. Will try that 👍 

The dynamic range out of the box is on the smaller side for my taste. Will definitely increase it when I build my template with these strings.


----------



## alchemist

Sonokinetic BV said:


> They need an initial mod wheel level to set the top, so setting your mod wheel to the highest point you want it to go to and then playing should do the trick - another thing I should probably add to the Manual and Videos


I thought that might be the case, but still doesn't do anything on my end


----------



## ResidentSmeagol

It seems like this library, like a lot of other Sonokinetic libraries is strangely not tuned at 440. It's at 442. Is there a way to set this library so that it's always 440 by default so I don't always have to remember to change it?


----------



## bfreepro

ResidentSmeagol said:


> It seems like this library, like a lot of other Sonokinetic libraries is strangely not tuned at 440. It's at 442. Is there a way to set this library so that it's always 440 by default so I don't always have to remember to change it?


Yeah I had this question too


----------



## muziksculp

Looking at the User's Manual, In PLAY mode, Clicking on the Sonokinetic Logo, you access the Options Subpage, there is a Global Master Tune : It is set at 442.0 Hz. , I'm guessing it can be switched to 440.0 Hz.

I haven't installed the Library yet, but the User's Manual has some helpful info. You can download it for referencing things you are not sure about.


----------



## jbuhler

ResidentSmeagol said:


> It seems like this library, like a lot of other Sonokinetic libraries is strangely not tuned at 440. It's at 442. Is there a way to set this library so that it's always 440 by default so I don't always have to remember to change it?


Set it to 440 and resave the instrument. In most Sonokinetic libraries there is a button to reset, otherwise I think it's -.06 in the fine tuning.


----------



## bfreepro

muziksculp said:


> Looking at the User's Manual, In PLAY mode, Clicking on the Sonokinetic Logo, you access the Options Subpage, there is a Global Master Tune : It is set at 442.0 Hz. , I'm guessing it can be switched to 440.0 Hz.
> 
> I haven't installed the Library yet, but the User's Manual has some helpful info. You can download it for referencing things you are not sure about.


Yes I see this, but why is this library tuned to 442 when every other library is 440? 

I’ve already bought and downloaded this library. The tone is really nice, very open with just the right amount of space. I’ve noticed a few bugs with the engine though (dynamics selection not triggering, etc) and lots of noise in the sun tasto sustain releases, and the legato overall isn’t very convincing. I didn’t buy it for the monophonic legato though, and the divisi and polyphonic modes are awesome. The price is definitely fair for what you get.


----------



## ResidentSmeagol

muziksculp said:


> Looking at the User's Manual, In PLAY mode, Clicking on the Sonokinetic Logo, you access the Options Subpage, there is a Global Master Tune : It is set at 442.0 Hz. , I'm guessing it can be switched to 440.0 Hz.
> 
> I haven't installed the Library yet, but the User's Manual has some helpful info. You can download it for referencing things you are not sure about.


Lol been there, done that. I'm familiar with the manual since it comes with the library. I'm not looking to change it, I know how to do that but rather set 440 to be the default. I don't want to have to change it every time I load the instrument.



jbuhler said:


> Set it to 440 and resave the instrument. In most Sonokinetic libraries there is a button to reset, otherwise I think it's -.06 in the fine tuning.


This is what I'm looking for. Although I've never changed the default of an instrument before and re-saved it. It should save as the default patch, right? And not as a new one?


----------



## muziksculp

bfreepro said:


> Yes I see this, but why is this library tuned to 442 when every other library is 440?
> 
> I’ve already bought and downloaded this library. The tone is really nice, very open with just the right amount of space. I’ve noticed a few bugs with the engine though (dynamics selection not triggering, etc) and lots of noise in the sun tasto sustain releases, and the legato overall isn’t very convincing. I didn’t buy it for the monophonic legato though, and the divisi and polyphonic modes are awesome. The price is definitely fair for what you get.


Listening to the audio demos, the Legatos are impressive, I don't know what you are talking about. 

This library ROCKS.


----------



## Getsumen

bfreepro said:


> Yes I see this, but why is this library tuned to 442 when every other library is 440?
> 
> I’ve already bought and downloaded this library. The tone is really nice, very open with just the right amount of space. I’ve noticed a few bugs with the engine though (dynamics selection not triggering, etc) and lots of noise in the sun tasto sustain releases, and the legato overall isn’t very convincing. I didn’t buy it for the monophonic legato though, and the divisi and polyphonic modes are awesome. The price is definitely fair for what you get.


I believe many other Sonokientic libs (Perhaps all?) Are tuned to 442, and 442 is much more common in Europe compared to the U.S. and U.K.


----------



## jbuhler

bfreepro said:


> Yes I see this, but why is this library tuned to 442 when every other library is 440?
> 
> I’ve already bought and downloaded this library. The tone is really nice, very open with just the right amount of space. I’ve noticed a few bugs with the engine though (dynamics selection not triggering, etc) and lots of noise in the sun tasto sustain releases, and the legato overall isn’t very convincing. I didn’t buy it for the monophonic legato though, and the divisi and polyphonic modes are awesome. The price is definitely fair for what you get.


I think most Sonokinetic libraries are recorded at 442. But they usual ship reset to 440. 



ResidentSmeagol said:


> Lol been there, done that. I'm familiar with the manual since it comes with the library. I'm not looking to change it, I know how to do that but rather set 440 to be the default. I don't want to have to change it every time I load the instrument.
> 
> 
> This is what I'm looking for. Although I've never changed the default of an instrument before and re-saved it. It should save as the default patch, right? And not as a new one?


I don't like writing over the originals, so I usually archive the originals first and then save. Also be sure to save only the patch. No need to rewrite all the samples.


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> I think most Sonokinetic libraries are recorded at 442. But they usual ship reset to 440.


So, doesn't this mean the presets should show 440, not 442 when you open the Options Page ? 

But that's not what some users are saying here.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> So, doesn't this mean the presets should show 440, not 442 when you open the Options Page ?
> 
> But that's not what some users are saying here.


I don't have this library yet, so I can't say how this library is shipping. I just said that Sonokinetic usually ships at 440, meaning that the Sonokinetic libraries I do have all arrived, to the best of my recollection, set to 440, though they were (all or mostly) recorded at 442. (The Kontakt tuning is set to -0.06 by default.)


----------



## bfreepro

muziksculp said:


> Listening to the audio demos, the Legatos are impressive, I don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> This library ROCKS.


I know what I’m talking about, because I’ve actually played it instead of listening to demos lol. The demos sound amazing


----------



## muziksculp

bfreepro said:


> I know what I’m talking about, because I’ve actually played it instead of listening to demos lol. The demos sound amazing


Well, since I haven't installed the library yet, but will do so soon, I will be testing if there are any issues that bug me with the way the legatos sound/behave. 

I don't think the producers of the demos used another library, so again, I love the legatos I hear in the audio demos, even if they are not up to your standards at this point.


----------



## bfreepro

muziksculp said:


> Well, since I haven't installed the library yet, but will do so soon, I will be testing if there are any issues that bug me with the way the legatos sound/behave.
> 
> I don't think the producers of the demos used another library, so again, I love the legatos I hear in the audio demos, even if they are not up to your standards at this point.


But to entirely write off rational criticism and proclaim the library rocks without having even used it yet, that doesn’t seem very reasonable at all. Oh well


----------



## alchemist

muziksculp said:


> Listening to the audio demos, the Legatos are impressive, I don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> This library ROCKS.


There is a problem with the legato in the lower register of the cello, doesn't seem to be functioning correctly, but the others are lovely I agree.


----------



## karender

What do we know about sample start and midi lookahead? Do we have any control over sample starts?


----------



## muziksculp

alchemist said:


> There is a problem with the legato in the lower register of the cello, doesn't seem to be functioning correctly, but the others are lovely I agree.


Did you report it to Sonokinetic ? did anyone else report the same issue ?


----------



## Donny Grace

Looks like the Euro may be going back up. So purchase already made. That gets me back to owning ALL the Sonokinetic products.


----------



## alchemist

muziksculp said:


> Did you report it to Sonokinetic ? did anyone else report the same issue ?


I did, I'll post it here to see if anyone else can replicate. Mics used are close and tree.

The Cello is dropping in volume when playing Eb1 and E1 and the legato transitions are very clunky until you reach C2. In the attached example you can hear the volume dip on the 4th and 5th note (Eb1 and E1) and the clunky transitions stop once you reach the 12th note (C2) and normal legato behaviour begins.

View attachment cello_clunky_volumedip.mp3

.


----------



## muziksculp

alchemist said:


> I did, I'll post it here to see if anyone else can replicate. Mics used are close and tree.
> 
> The Cello is dropping in volume when playing Eb1 and E1 and the legato transitions are very clunky until you reach C2. In the attached example you can hear the volume dip on the 4th and 5th note (Eb1 and E1) and the clunky transitions stop once you reach the 12th note (C2) and normal legato behaviour begins.
> 
> View attachment cello_clunky_volumedip.mp3
> 
> .


Wow.. That's like falling in a ditch for a second. It shouldn't be hard for them to fix this, it's just some levels that need to be fixed. Hopefully they fix it via the next update. 

Thanks for sharing the issue.


----------



## jazzman7

When I first opened the library, the Legato was hardly noticeable...almost barely there. Once I kicked up the transition level, suddenly it was: "Ah, there You are!" 

I have so many new major releases this BF I'm snowed on the learning end, but I will enjoy getting to use my Sonokinetic Phrase VI's more with this new set of strings


----------



## axb312

RR legato?


----------



## Remnant

How are the releases and can you control them? It sounds great but I feel like a hear a little sucking effect. Not as bad as spitfire legatos though.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Remnant said:


> How are the releases and can you control them? It sounds great but I feel like a hear a little sucking effect. Not as bad as spitfire legatos though.


They mentioned in the legato video you can control the end of the previous note so i guess that will smooth out what you hear?


----------



## bfreepro

jazzman7 said:


> When I first opened the library, the Legato was hardly noticeable...almost barely there. Once I kicked up the transition level, suddenly it was: "Ah, there You are!"
> 
> I have so many new major releases this BF I'm snowed on the learning end, but I will enjoy getting to use my Sonokinetic Phrase VI's more with this new set of strings


Same, I wish it were a bit better balanced overall right out of the box. The legato just isn’t very good IMO


Remnant said:


> How are the releases and can you control them? It sounds great but I feel like a hear a little sucking effect. Not as bad as spitfire legatos though.


You can't control note releases. The "smear" control will make the previous note linger a bit longer but only during a legato transition.


----------



## bfreepro

axb312 said:


> RR legato?


No


----------



## Wabashprof

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Yes we have lots of ideas for that already
> I haven't mentioned in the video but another quick way to record a phrase is by double tapping a phrase preset key (C3 and up). This is temperamental though if there is already a phrase on that preset.
> We pivoted a bit from a system that was focused on saving in the menu, to a system where you mainly have a sketchpad in persistence with twelve phrases per instance, that will be saved with your DAW project, making saving in the menu optional.
> Actually the original idea was to just have a big record button and no phrase editing capabilities at all, but then we found that too limiting and it snowballed from there...we got very excited in the process
> Another mode that I want to build in in the future is a rhythm mode where you would just hammer in a rhythmic pattern, and you can then play your own voicings and chords in the playable area rather than the chord area doing harmony and voice leading for you.
> Also I want to add recording of mod wheel while you record the phrase, and then make that relative to any mod wheel movement you do when you play back the phrase...
> 
> 
> We noted this in our update notes, thanks!
> 
> Yes this is definitely a personal setting, and also depends on the type of material you want to play/how agile you want the instrument to be.


Many thanks for your helpful reply. I own all your phrase libraries and have put them to great use in my work. Your friendly responsiveness here and via your online support are models for how developers can help their customers get the most from their software. Thank you.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

bfreepro said:


> The legato just isn’t very good IMO


Do you have an audio example? Curious what you mean by isn’t very good (since I’ve noticed everybody has their own preferences for legato - one man’s trash type of thing).


----------



## bfreepro

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Do you have an audio example? Curious what you mean by isn’t very good (since I’ve noticed everybody has their own preferences for legato - one man’s trash type of thing).


Sure, I guess I should have phrased it "the legato is not very _expressive" _instead, it's fine and serviceable for the most part, and again I didn't buy this library for monophonic legato, but polyphonic also can suffer from some volume bumps and overall lack of smoothness. Basically, I would always supplement this library with another library that focuses on a smoother legato performance, but this one is also a lot less expensive than many others, so I guess I shouldn't have expected more. I notice it mostly in the cellos so far. 

You get the controls to adjust the "smear" and the transition volume, and it's just harder to get everything balanced IMO, it has the tendency to sound like the previous note, the transition, and the current note are all separate pieces being put together on the fly (which they are), and it's just neve quite as smooth and seamless as I expected it to be, and what some other libraries can deliver. Notice at the end of the cello part, there's a big volume jump there between the two notes, even with the transition volume way down (@alchemist has an example of that too). The violins sound better, and in that section, I'm kind of demonstrating how the "smear" control works along with the transition volume which @Obi-Wan Spaghetti mentioned


----------



## jazzman7

Remnant said:


> How are the releases and can you control them? It sounds great but I feel like a hear a little sucking effect. Not as bad as spitfire legatos though.


I saw a release control...have not messed with it much yet, but it is there. Legatos need some work tho. Not terribly smooth, sadly. Temporary early problems. (I hope)


----------



## Supremo

bfreepro said:


> Sure, I guess I should have phrased it "the legato is not very _expressive" _instead, it's fine and serviceable for the most part, and again I didn't buy this library for monophonic legato, but polyphonic also can suffer from some volume bumps and overall lack of smoothness. Basically, I would always supplement this library with another library that focuses on a smoother legato performance, but this one is also a lot less expensive than many others, so I guess I shouldn't have expected more. I notice it mostly in the cellos so far.
> 
> You get the controls to adjust the "smear" and the transition volume, and it's just harder to get everything balanced IMO, it has the tendency to sound like the previous note, the transition, and the current note are all separate pieces being put together on the fly (which they are), and it's just neve quite as smooth and seamless as I expected it to be, and what some other libraries can deliver. Notice at the end of the cello part, there's a big volume jump there between the two notes, even with the transition volume way down (@alchemist has an example of that too). The violins sound better, and in that section, I'm kind of demonstrating how the "smear" control works along with the transition volume which @Obi-Wan Spaghetti mentioned



Yep, legato transitions do sound awful here. Strange that most sample developers haven’t yet learned their way of making smooth legato transitions after so many years of building sample libraries. 

I guess I could easily fix those transition, volume jump and choppiness issues by tweaking the sample start and volume envelopes in the back end of the library if I owned it. Is the library tweakable under the hood and not password-protected?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> Did you report it to Sonokinetic ? did anyone else report the same issue ?


noted - we willl have a look into it - all these settings are configurable here.

I am thinking of adding a user accessible 'pro' mode too for more granular control over legatos and releases.
It's a tricky balance though between various settings, sort of a 3d control where you need it to sound good across velocity levels and playing speeds. The risk with more user control is you would change something that would make your currrent phrase sound good and would mess it up on for instance at a lower velocity or when you play faster. So it's all curves and progressive settings.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Supremo said:


> Yep, legato transitions do sound awful here. Strange that most sample developers haven’t yet learned their way of making smooth legato transitions after so many years of building sample libraries.
> 
> I guess I could easily fix those transition, volume jump and choppiness issues by tweaking the sample start and volume envelopes in the back end of the library if I owned it. Is the library tweakable under the hood and not password-protected?


the library is tweakable in some ways (we never lock nkis), but the modulators are set dynamically based on various input parameters. 
So it is not locked, but some settings will be automatically overruled by the script when you play because they are dynamic.
The script is password protected though, but it is also huge and encrypted so it wouldn't make sense to make that user editable.


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> Wow.. That's like falling in a ditch for a second. It shouldn't be hard for them to fix this, it's just some levels that need to be fixed. Hopefully they fix it via the next update.
> 
> Thanks for sharing the issue.


Can they fix the crappy legato?


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> We went from legato to a globalist cabal elite taking over the planet quite quickly.
> 
> Can they fix the crappy legato?


LOL.. I'm sure it's an easy fix for them. Hopefully it will be fixed in the next update, along with other reported issues.

Are you planning on getting this library ?


----------



## chapbot

muziksculp said:


> LOL.. I'm sure it's an easy fix for them. Hopefully it will be fixed in the next update, along with other reported issues.
> 
> Are you planning on getting this library ?


Was undecided until I heard that cello clip


----------



## muziksculp

chapbot said:


> Was undecided until I heard that cello clip


I don't blame you, Maybe re-evaluate it after the first update is released. I already purchased it, but don't plan to install it until the update is available. 

Sonically, I love what I hear in the demos. I'm sure they will get a lot of these issues fixed, and the price is very attractive for what it offers.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

chapbot said:


> Can they fix the crappy legato?


it's interesting how these threads always tend to hone in at the worst performing bit people can find 

We knew this going in though and tried to make sure everything was at the same level, but with a project this size there will always be some parts that need tweaking after public scrutiny.

If you see the other comments overall the legato is far from crappy and someone found an issue in the Cello legato. The video doesn't play for me for some reason, but please send it to us in support as well and we will have a look

So I guess the question should be 'can they fix the instances where the legato does not appear to work as well as in other places' and the answer would be Yes they can


----------



## bvaughn0402

It is really refreshing to have the actual vendor in here. Thank you for that and putting up with us all!! I wish all vendors here did that.


----------



## bfreepro

Sonokinetic BV said:


> it's interesting how these threads always tend to hone in at the worst performing bit people can find
> 
> We knew this going in though and tried to make sure everything was at the same level, but with a project this size there will always be some parts that need tweaking after public scrutiny.
> 
> If you see the other comments overall the legato is far from crappy and someone found an issue in the Cello legato. The video doesn't play for me for some reason, but please send it to us in support as well and we will have a look
> 
> So I guess the question should be 'can they fix the instances where the legato does not appear to work as well as in other places' and the answer would be Yes they can


I think that's just the nature of any highly competitive market today. Sampling has gotten so hyper-realistic, anything that's lacking in any area, even slightly, will immediately stick out, whether it's a fair assessment or not. I notice the same thing with video gaming... we've gotten to the point where graphics are simply photorealistic, so if a game has just ONE bad texture, people all notice it, and we take the rest for granted and forget how much work went into the final product lol. 

What I find to be a shortcoming doesn't just ruin the overall package though, so I also made sure to mention I didn't purchase this for the monophonic legato, and mentioned that the polyphonic legato, divisi, and the tone overall are all awesome. Plus there are things in this library that other libraries just don't offer, like the runs, phrases, auto-divisi, etc. The other libraries are also usually more (sometimes MUCH more) expensive. I always try to keep everything in perspective.

And yes, it's definitely appreciated to have the dev so active and answering questions and replying. I mention these shortcomings because I know you listen and will improve it, you put a lot into this already, the passion shows.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

bfreepro said:


> Sure, I guess I should have phrased it "the legato is not very _expressive" _instead, it's fine and serviceable for the most part, and again I didn't buy this library for monophonic legato, but polyphonic also can suffer from some volume bumps and overall lack of smoothness. Basically, I would always supplement this library with another library that focuses on a smoother legato performance, but this one is also a lot less expensive than many others, so I guess I shouldn't have expected more. I notice it mostly in the cellos so far.
> 
> You get the controls to adjust the "smear" and the transition volume, and it's just harder to get everything balanced IMO, it has the tendency to sound like the previous note, the transition, and the current note are all separate pieces being put together on the fly (which they are), and it's just neve quite as smooth and seamless as I expected it to be, and what some other libraries can deliver. Notice at the end of the cello part, there's a big volume jump there between the two notes, even with the transition volume way down (@alchemist has an example of that too). The violins sound better, and in that section, I'm kind of demonstrating how the "smear" control works along with the transition volume which @Obi-Wan Spaghetti mentioned



To be fair, i don't think this is a fair representation of what those legatos can do. You need to ride the modwheel and shape musical phrases with it to hear its real potential imo. They're just design like that, unlike CSS for example. Also, yes they don't appear to be very expressive but the sus. expressive patch is, according to what i heard in the video. 

Personally, I'd rather they recorded a bigger variaty of legatos than divisi but it seems like a great sounding library. But the legatos won't revolutionize the industry.


----------



## ricoderks

@Sonokinetic BV 
Absolutely love the sound! I'm sure this product only will get better with future tweaks and updates! I was wondering if you can control dynamics of the shorts with velocity instead of modulation wheel. Can't find it anywhere. Am I missing something?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

ricoderks said:


> @Sonokinetic BV
> Absolutely love the sound! I'm sure this product only will get better with future tweaks and updates! I was wondering if you can control dynamics of the shorts with velocity instead of modulation wheel. Can't find it anywhere. Am I missing something?


Hi Rico,

yes the shorts are mostly controlled by velocity.
The mod wheel sets the top level for shorts, and then the velocity does all dynamics within that range if that makes sense.


----------



## ricoderks

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Hi Rico,
> 
> yes the shorts are mostly controlled by velocity.
> The mod wheel sets the top level for shorts, and then the velocity does all dynamics within that range if that makes sense.


Ah! Thats really smart actually. So cc1 acts like an velocity compressor?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

ricoderks said:


> Ah! Thats really smart actually. So cc1 acts like an velocity compressor?


sort of yes - it's to make changes between articulations while playing more predictable...I'm actually thinking of adding a separate setting where you can set the dynamic range for just the shorts too in the menu, like velocity sensitivity


----------



## Rich4747

The stacking and morphing along with the dynamics block is really working great for me. The sound produced can be very alive and beautiful. I also like the fact that you are open to making this system even better. The phrase interface seems querky to me but you have already said that improvements are on the way. Overall the results I get for the money are excellent and the potential of the phrase system is high. A tip of the hat for anyone trying to innovate with such lovely samples.


----------



## chrisav

So about the legato, from what I gather it can be used on all the different sustain types (normal, expressive, sul tasto and sul pont), but these are the same legato transitions, grafted onto separate sustain types, right? Not that it matters, but I just can't imagine these are separate legato recordings for all those different sustain types given the already generous amount of content for the price...


----------



## ricoderks

For those who wondering:

The default widening of the decca is set to 50%, which is in a way 150% if 100 is your normal stereo image. 

If you move 1 "ball" to the left and the other to the middle, then place them both back to the middle with their own middle "cross" you have the original width as recorded. (picture below) Also Volume: The light grey cross in the interface roughly sits on -5,5db. (close spots, picture) The middle of the top part is around 0db. where the decca in the picture is.

Example below shows the decca tree NOT widened at roughly 0db. The Close mics are widened here to roughly 50%. As you can see the Stage and balcony are going to 80 ish.

When loading a patch it seems all signals except close are being widened, which to me, is a bit weird to be honest. Default patches, for example cello is out of phase, out of the box, unless I reset the widener effect. What is the benefit of default widening?

Cheers!


----------



## gst98

ricoderks said:


> For those who wondering:
> 
> The default widening of the decca is set to 50%, which is in a way 150% if 100 is your normal stereo image.
> 
> If you move 1 "ball" to the left and the other to the middle, then place them both back to the middle with their own middle "cross" you have the original width as recorded. (picture below) Also Volume: The light grey cross in the interface roughly sits on -5,5db. (close spots, picture) The middle of the top part is around 0db. where the decca in the picture is.
> 
> Example below shows the decca tree NOT widened at roughly 0db. The Close mics are widened here to roughly 50%. As you can see the Stage and balcony are going to 80 ish.
> 
> When loading a patch it seems all signals except close are being widened, which to me, is a bit weird to be honest. Default patches, for example cello is out of phase, out of the box, unless I reset the widener effect. What is the benefit of default widening?
> 
> Cheers!


I thought something sounded odd and out of phase in the walkthrough when he went through the decca, stage and balcony mics - knowing the phasing isn't baked in has me interested again.


----------



## ricoderks

If anyone would like to test all decca tree sounds with NO widening and volume resetted to 0db, then put these snapshots in your user content folder:


----------



## re-peat

Sonokinetic BV said:


> The mod wheel sets the top level for shorts, and then the velocity does all dynamics within that range if that makes sense.


Not really, no.

Would it be possible, please, dear Sonokinetic BV, to have the short articulations respond more to velocity than they do at the moment. Or, better still: provide, in an update, an additional parameter which allows the user to determine _precisely_ how she, x or he wants the shorts to respond, dynamically.

The current fixed velocity response — even with the dynamic range set at 100% — is waaaaay too small, I find, and I mean: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too small, to enjoy playing these short patches, let alone trying to make music with them. Impossible to play with anything resembling feeling if there’s hardly any velocity response.

Being able to control the dynamics of shorts with the modwheel can sometimes be useful, I suppose (though I *never* work like that), but (1) it’s highly impractical if you have both hands on the keyboard and (2) makes no musical sense whatsoever anyway if the left and right hand play different dynamics. Moreover, (3) it is also highly inconvenient way to control a performance if the part frequently and rapidly changes dynamics.

Thanks bij voorbaat!

_


----------



## muk

ricoderks said:


> The default widening of the decca is set to 50%, which is in a way 150% if 100 is your normal stereo image.


@Sonokinetic BV posted a workaround some pages back:






Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings Released!


but will probably do that in an update since we don't want to break people's downloads. So, if I use the Sonokinetic Downloads I will have a missing file, how do I get the missing file ? If I wait for the update (I'm guessing the next Library Update), I can download it via Sonokinetic without...




vi-control.net





While I like the idea behind the 'visual mixer', for me personally it is not very practical. There are no number readouts, so you can set the volume only by approximation. And changing the volume without changing the width, or vice versa, is often tricky. Also, the option to solo or mute individual mic positions would be handy. Currently it's four clicks instead of one. No big deal, but would still be nice to have. Personally I'd prefer a more standard approach to the mixer page, with one channel per mix, where you can change the volume and width/panning, and solo or mute each mic.


----------



## ricoderks

muk said:


> @Sonokinetic BV posted a workaround some pages back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings Released!
> 
> 
> but will probably do that in an update since we don't want to break people's downloads. So, if I use the Sonokinetic Downloads I will have a missing file, how do I get the missing file ? If I wait for the update (I'm guessing the next Library Update), I can download it via Sonokinetic without...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I like the idea behind the 'visual mixer', for me personally it is not very practical. There are no number readouts, so you can set the volume only by approximation. And changing the volume without changing the width, or vice versa, is often tricky. Also, the option to solo or mute individual mic positions would be handy. Currently it's four clicks instead of one. No big deal, but would still be nice to have. Personally I'd prefer a more standard approach to the mixer page, with one channel per mix, where you can change the volume and width/panning, and solo or mute each mic.


Sure, but then the mixer does not work for panning. Its not really a solution. Also that answer was oriented to just bypass the visual mixer. It didn't address the widening issue i have. My concern it the out of phase state the library loads with by default. Which luckily is easy to solve.


----------



## muk

ricoderks said:


> It didn't address the widening issue i have.


Yes it does. The widening is applied through the stereo modeler effect in Kontakt. Hence, if you bypass that effect, no widening is applied to the signal. Just checked with a phase meter: it does solve the out of phase issue of the celli.


----------



## ricoderks

muk said:


> Yes it does. The widening is applied through the stereo modeler effect in Kontakt. Hence, if you bypass that effect, no widening is applied to the signal. Just checked with a phase meter: it does solve the out of phase issue of the celli.


True, I phrased it wrong: the reply of sono didnt address the widening issue i have with it. Curious about the desicion making of that widening. But then again, this should not be a problem for the customer in my opinion. I think it would be best if the visual mixer started with no 'fx'. Maybe just some panning and volume.


----------



## muk

ricoderks said:


> True, I phrased it wrong: the reply of sono didnt address the widening issue i have with it. Curious about the desicion making of that widening. But then again, this should not be a problem for the customer in my opinion. I think it would be best if the visual mixer started with no 'fx'. Maybe just some panning and volume.


Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. I agree. It would be better if the library loaded without widening being applied. Especially if it leads to problems with phase as it does with the celli.


----------



## ender7

wow! this sounds really amazing to my ears.


----------



## dzilizzi

Realizing all my phrase libraries are on the drive on the other computer. VE Pro sounded like such a good idea, but my libraries are always on the wrong computer.

Fortunately, my new drive has space.


----------



## alchemist

I just had to come back and say once again, I'm completely enamoured with the tone of these strings. Absolutely gorgeous sound. I can only hope @Sonokinetic BV will release the accompanying brass, perc and winds!


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

alchemist said:


> I just had to come back and say once again, I'm completely enamoured with the tone of these strings. Absolutely gorgeous sound. I can only hope @Sonokinetic BV will release the accompanying brass, perc and winds!


You could use Da Capo until then.


----------



## Remnant

Just pulled the trigger on these. Excited!


----------



## Remnant

Remnant said:


> Just pulled the trigger on these. Excited!


Only played around tonight but loving the tone of the library. Enough room to give a warm round tone but dry enough to take well to reverb too I think. And I really like the legatos. It is true they are not particularly expressive but I find them to just be sophisticated sounding. I am not terribly into the high romantic aggressive slide legatos anyway. Just my taste. 

Still missing the cello mix though.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muk said:


> Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. I agree. It would be better if the library loaded without widening being applied. Especially if it leads to problems with phase as it does with the celli.


I will adjust the first preset in the update to be neutral - maybe even add a option-click command to turn off the widening


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muk said:


> @Sonokinetic BV posted a workaround some pages back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings Released!
> 
> 
> but will probably do that in an update since we don't want to break people's downloads. So, if I use the Sonokinetic Downloads I will have a missing file, how do I get the missing file ? If I wait for the update (I'm guessing the next Library Update), I can download it via Sonokinetic without...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I like the idea behind the 'visual mixer', for me personally it is not very practical. There are no number readouts, so you can set the volume only by approximation. And changing the volume without changing the width, or vice versa, is often tricky. Also, the option to solo or mute individual mic positions would be handy. Currently it's four clicks instead of one. No big deal, but would still be nice to have. Personally I'd prefer a more standard approach to the mixer page, with one channel per mix, where you can change the volume and width/panning, and solo or mute each mic.


I have had questions about that - might add some numbers somewhere


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

re-peat said:


> Not really, no.
> 
> Would it be possible, please, dear Sonokinetic BV, to have the short articulations respond more to velocity than they do at the moment. Or, better still: provide, in an update, an additional parameter which allows the user to determine _precisely_ how she, x or he wants the shorts to respond, dynamically.
> 
> The current fixed velocity response — even with the dynamic range set at 100% — is waaaaay too small, I find, and I mean: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too small, to enjoy playing these short patches, let alone trying to make music with them. Impossible to play with anything resembling feeling if there’s hardly any velocity response.
> 
> Being able to control the dynamics of shorts with the modwheel can sometimes be useful, I suppose (though I *never* work like that), but (1) it’s highly impractical if you have both hands on the keyboard and (2) makes no musical sense whatsoever anyway if the left and right hand play different dynamics. Moreover, (3) it is also highly inconvenient way to control a performance if the part frequently and rapidly changes dynamics.
> 
> Thanks bij voorbaat!
> 
> _


yes there will be a dedicated sensitivity slider for the shorts


----------



## muk

It's outstanding how responsive Sonokinetic is to user suggestions. Fantastic support, this.


----------



## ricoderks

muk said:


> It's outstanding how responsive Sonokinetic is to user suggestions. Fantastic support, this.


100%


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

muk said:


> It's outstanding how responsive Sonokinetic is to user suggestions. Fantastic support, this.


Indeed ! Sorry to name another developer in a commercial thread but I hope they can forgive me on this one : Sonokinetic and Impact Soundworks are doing an amazing job these days with their product launches, showing presence, responsivity and support. Other developers, if you're reading this, this is how it should be done


----------



## Markrs

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> Indeed ! Sorry to name another developer in a commercial thread but I hope they can forgive me on this one : Sonokinetic and Impact Soundworks are doing an amazing job these days with their product launches, showing presence, responsivity and support. Other developers, if you're reading this, this is how it should be done


I haven't bought either yet, but have been following both threads and massively impressed with how responsive they have both been to feedback. I working as User Experience designer so this is wonderful to see.


----------



## Remnant

Emmanuel Rousseau said:


> Indeed ! Sorry to name another developer in a commercial thread but I hope they can forgive me on this one : Sonokinetic and Impact Soundworks are doing an amazing job these days with their product launches, showing presence, responsivity and support. Other developers, if you're reading this, this is how it should be done


Totally agree. It’s like if you bought a microwave and the salesperson drove to your house with you just to make sure it’s working right for you. Really gives some peace of mind.


----------



## Evans

Remnant said:


> and the salesperson drove to your house with you just to make sure it’s working right for you. Really gives some peace of mind.


While I get your intent, that would freak me the eff out. Stay out of my house, microwave salesperson!


----------



## Remnant

Evans said:


> While I get your intent, that would freak me the eff out. Stay out of my house, microwave salesperson!


True. And is there really such a thing as a microwave salesperson anyway?


----------



## styledelk

I mean once upon a time, yes. Just like the door to door vacuum salesperson.


----------



## Go To 11

@muziksculp There you go. Saved you €120! https://www.sonokinetic.net/products/classical/woodwinds-ensembles/


----------



## muziksculp

Go To 11 said:


> @muziksculp There you go. Saved you €120! https://www.sonokinetic.net/products/classical/woodwinds-ensembles/


THANKS  

Yup super cool deal. Got them.  I'm also looking forward to see them updated next year as @Sonokinetic BV had mentioned. They should be great to use with Sonokinetic Strings.


----------



## ricoderks

Allrighty then.... Time for a small improv test

With Freya, CSB 4 horns/ 2 trumpets with altiverb zlin. All together trough seventh heaven boston hall A.

LOVE the smooth strings sound. Great job Sonokinetic!


----------



## RMH

ricoderks said:


> Allrighty then.... Time for a small improv test
> 
> With Freya, CSB 4 horns/ 2 trumpets with altiverb zlin. All together trough seventh heaven boston hall A.
> 
> LOVE the smooth strings sound. Great job Sonokinetic!


More! More, rico!


----------



## Batrawi

For those who played enough with the legatos, what do you think? How do they compare to CSS' or Adagio's legatos for ex.?


----------



## muziksculp

Batrawi said:


> For those who played enough with the legatos, what do you think? How do they compare to CSS' or Adagio's legatos for ex.?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

muk said:


> It's outstanding how responsive Sonokinetic is to user suggestions. Fantastic support, this.


And they make the classiest interface.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Evans said:


> While I get your intent, that would freak me the eff out. Stay out of my house, microwave salesperson!


What if it's a she and looks like Gal Gadot? What then?


----------



## Symfoniq

Batrawi said:


> For those who played enough with the legatos, what do you think? How do they compare to CSS' or Adagio's legatos for ex.?


This is a fair question, and I'd like to hear feedback on the legato as well. Legato may not be everything, but certain developers have been raising the standard of late. How does Orchestral Strings compare?


----------



## Evans

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> What if it's a she and looks like Gal Gadot? What then?


My wife would try to run away with her, but I'm not a fan.


----------



## muk

Alright, here is a finished track with Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings. Sonokinetic's programming offers a lot of flexibility, so it didn't take long to set these up and adjust them to my taste.

The strings are all Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings here. Making use of the divisi sections:

View attachment Sonokinetic divisi Test.mp3


----------



## Batrawi

the tone is really one of the best I've heard... Lovely❤


----------



## muziksculp

Batrawi said:


> the tone is really one of the best I've heard... Lovely❤


Should I call the Legato Police ?


----------



## ricoderks

Batrawi said:


> For those who played enough with the legatos, what do you think? How do they compare to CSS' or Adagio's legatos for ex.?





Symfoniq said:


> This is a fair question, and I'd like to hear feedback on the legato as well. Legato may not be everything, but certain developers have been raising the standard of late. How does Orchestral Strings compare?


So, I think the legato specifically is nice. But we're also spoiled with even better ones. Jasper Blunk/CSS for example. But to me its not an issue. If I want css legato, i choose css. Or layer them together. The plus side of sonokinetics approach is that you can set the volume level and smearing of the legato sample. I personally have no library capable of doing this. Orchestral strings can do 90% of all your needs. It just depends on the time spend on the mockup. If you would rate the legato its a 4/5 for me, haha!


----------



## muk

Batrawi said:


> For those who played enough with the legatos, what do you think? How do they compare to CSS' or Adagio's legatos for ex.?


The legatos are nice in my opinion, except for the celli, where something is not right in my opinion. On the celli, the transition sticks out audibly and is not as smooth as with the other sections. I think somebody already demonstrated the issue in a short video a few pages back.

But apart from the celli, it's really quite good. Out of the box, the transitions are set rather low volume wise for my taste. You can easily adjust that to taste, so not an issue. CSS is more flexible with its three lengths of transitions. It has an edge over Sono OS there. That's not to say that the legato in this library wasn't good or useable - it is, absolutely. Not quite as good as CSS's, which is still the most versatile for me. But certainly as good as other products legatos, and quite playable too.


----------



## bfreepro

Batrawi said:


> For those who played enough with the legatos, what do you think? How do they compare to CSS' or Adagio's legatos for ex.?


Not in the same ballpark, but they don't try to be. They do very different things and I don't think for one minute Sono is trying to compete with CSS or outperform their legato scripting. Each one has things the other just can’t do.


----------



## Go To 11

ricoderks said:


> Allrighty then.... Time for a small improv test
> 
> With Freya, CSB 4 horns/ 2 trumpets with altiverb zlin. All together trough seventh heaven boston hall A.
> 
> LOVE the smooth strings sound. Great job Sonokinetic!


Incredible work man!


----------



## Remnant

muk said:


> Alright, here is a finished track with Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings. Sonokinetic's programming offers a lot of flexibility, so it didn't take long to set these up and adjust them to my taste.
> 
> The strings are all Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings here. Making use of the divisi sections:
> 
> View attachment Sonokinetic divisi Test.mp3


Great composition! Thank you for sharing this. I just purchased the library and am wondering if you could share what kind of processing you did with the strings-reverb, delay, saturation, eq? Thanks, and great work again.


----------



## markleake

muk said:


> Alright, here is a finished track with Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings. Sonokinetic's programming offers a lot of flexibility, so it didn't take long to set these up and adjust them to my taste.
> 
> The strings are all Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings here. Making use of the divisi sections:
> 
> View attachment Sonokinetic divisi Test.mp3


Hey @muk in this track do you hear any tuning issues with the violins? It sounds to me like some of the release tails are not in tune, like at 0:08 and 1:13.

Otherwise sounds beautiful.


----------



## muk

Remnant said:


> Great composition! Thank you for sharing this. I just purchased the library and am wondering if you could share what kind of processing you did with the strings-reverb, delay, saturation, eq? Thanks, and great work again.


Thank you Remnant! Sure thing. Most important for the sound I got here is the mic mix. This library is quite wet. I like a rather drie sound. So I choose the tree mic (stereo widening turned off!), and added some of the close mic (stereo widening and panning for the close mic as it comes out of the box).

I've done only little eqing. I'm using a slight dip between 200-400 Hz, another one around 4 kHz. And a gentle high shelf boost above 7kHz. These are all very small adjustments, only one or two db each. Then I added a bit of the Kush Clariphonic to the mix to open up the sound. Again just a touch, nothing drastic.

As a reverb I added some tail with VSS3. For the strings alone I probably wouldn't have added any reverb at all. But the winds, brass, and percussion did need it, and it holds everything together. It's a tail of around 2.1 seconds length, blended in at -14db.

Last thing is the VSL Limiter, just to bring up the volume to the desired level.

Hope this helps.



markleake said:


> Hey @muk in this track do you hear any tuning issues with the violins? It sounds to me like some of the release tails are not in tune, like at 0:08 and 1:13.
> 
> Otherwise sounds beautiful.


Hi Mark. Yes, there are a few release tails that are slightly out of tune. Well spotted! I hope Sonokinetic can fix this in an update. But it's generally not a big problem. I've found only a few of them. And them being audible here is just coincidence, not an indication of a larger problem.


----------



## markleake

Thanks muk. @Sonokinetic BV is the release tail tuning issue something you are aware of?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

markleake said:


> Thanks muk. @Sonokinetic BV is the release tail tuning issue something you are aware of?


we have done a round of tuning each individual sample - might give it another pass since it's done in an external file inside the Data folder - we can easily update that.

I might even make that customer facing in the next update, like a pro option...


----------



## ricoderks

@Sonokinetic BV Just wanted to say I absolutely love the morph feature. I discovered it is even possible to do it by keyswitch. AND even shorts/longs morph with keyswitch, if you prepare what you want to morph first. I don't know who invented this interface and concept but he/she should get a raise or big Christmas bonus haha!


----------



## handz

ricoderks said:


> Allrighty then.... Time for a small improv test
> 
> With Freya, CSB 4 horns/ 2 trumpets with altiverb zlin. All together trough seventh heaven boston hall A.
> 
> LOVE the smooth strings sound. Great job Sonokinetic!


Really lovely, although Choir steals the show for me here )


----------



## muk

For those of you wondering how the divisi sections sound on their own, here is a small test with just the B sections (the smaller ones) being used.

View attachment Sonokinetic Elgar Serenade Larghetto beginning.mp3


I must say I pretty like that tone! (except for the tuning issue in the transition of the Vl 1 between a1 and b1. I hope that can be easily corrected in an update).


For reference, here is the same with the A groups from Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings:

View attachment Sonokinetic Elgar Serenade Larghetto A groups.mp3


It's the same midi, just copied over to the A groups. Works very well here, and gives a slightly larger sound than the B sections.

And here is the tutti version with both groups playing:

View attachment Sonokinetic Elgar Serenade Larghetto tutti.mp3


It speaks for Sonokinetic's great work during the editing stage that you simply can copy over midi data from one group to the other and it works flawlessly. Personally, I like the B groups the most here. But that's simply because I like the smaller chamber strings setup for this music. All three versions are valid in my opinion, and it's great to have the choice.


----------



## Remnant

muk said:


> Thank you Remnant! Sure thing. Most important for the sound I got here is the mic mix. This library is quite wet. I like a rather drie sound. So I choose the tree mic (stereo widening turned off!), and added some of the close mic (stereo widening and panning for the close mic as it comes out of the box).
> 
> I've done only little eqing. I'm using a slight dip between 200-400 Hz, another one around 4 kHz. And a gentle high shelf boost above 7kHz. These are all very small adjustments, only one or two db each. Then I added a bit of the Kush Clariphonic to the mix to open up the sound. Again just a touch, nothing drastic.
> 
> As a reverb I added some tail with VSS3. For the strings alone I probably wouldn't have added any reverb at all. But the winds, brass, and percussion did need it, and it holds everything together. It's a tail of around 2.1 seconds length, blended in at -14db.
> 
> Last thing is the VSL Limiter, just to bring up the volume to the desired level.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Hi Mark. Yes, there are a few release tails that are slightly out of tune. Well spotted! I hope Sonokinetic can fix this in an update. But it's generally not a big problem. I've found only a few of them. And them being audible here is just coincidence, not an indication of a larger problem.


Thank you for sharing. I really appreciate it. I’m still trying to dial in the mic mixes and reverb myself, and I’m loving the sound but things are getting a little washed out. I think I’ll try sticking with just the close and tree for now too.


----------



## ricoderks

handz said:


> Really lovely, although Choir steals the show for me here )


Thanks! You're right. I've uploaded Strings only in that previous post too.


----------



## artomatic

Can someone (please) post an example of portamento in action?
Can't seem to make it happen at this end. Thanks!


----------



## ricoderks

artomatic said:


> Can someone (please) post an example of portamento in action?
> Can't seem to make it happen at this end. Thanks!


Increase the volume of the transition


----------



## artomatic

ricoderks said:


> Increase the volume of the transition



Indeed. That did it!
Many thanks.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

ricoderks said:


> @Sonokinetic BV Just wanted to say I absolutely love the morph feature. I discovered it is even possible to do it by keyswitch. AND even shorts/longs morph with keyswitch, if you prepare what you want to morph first. I don't know who invented this interface and concept but he/she should get a raise or big Christmas bonus haha!


that would be me 
Thank you for the kind words! It's so great to see people enjoying what we've been brewing all this time!
The morph thing happened when we were looking for a way to implement flexible vibrato, and when it was done we realised it could also be used for these other purposes...doing it by Keyswitch was needed to be able to trigger it in your composition too at any point.
The interface has evolved from the woodwinds interface to the Bells Collection interface and now the Strings - they all have the 6 blocks with all the artics and the two-key keyswitch system.
You can also use a single key on midi key zero by the way to switch articulations by velocity, and that way you can also link that keyswitch/velocity combo to DAW articulations for DAWs that support that - which is something that won't work with the double keyswitches I think.
Here's the list of articulations and the velocities they are mapped to on key 0:


----------



## Aldunate

Please do Dorico expression maps and Playback Templates


----------



## bonebones

muk said:


> Alright, here is a finished track with Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings. Sonokinetic's programming offers a lot of flexibility, so it didn't take long to set these up and adjust them to my taste.
> 
> The strings are all Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings here. Making use of the divisi sections:
> 
> View attachment Sonokinetic divisi Test.mp3


So rare that I will hear a posted track that is all class, if anyone is in any doubt as to the quality of this product this demo would surely allay those doubts! Congrats Sonokinetic on the release. Looking forward to using it in a project.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Aldunate said:


> Please do Dorico expression maps and Playback Templates


We are looking into this!


----------



## muk

bonebones said:


> So rare that I will hear a posted track that is all class,


Hey, thank you @bonebones! That's very kind of you.


----------



## markleake

Sonokinetic BV said:


> we have done a round of tuning each individual sample - might give it another pass


Thanks! Just bought earlier today, so now I'm invested in getting little things fixed like this.


----------



## zouzou

First of all, thank you and congratulations to the Sonokinetic team for this great achievement!
I have been waiting for it for a long time, but I have a hesitation before the purchase:
Are these my ears or is the tone of this string library lacking in depth?
The sound seems high in the treble, a fairly "fine" sound, not "organic" enough for my taste... (I already have a lot of Sonokinetic libraries)
Does the sound get closer to DaCapo and other Sonokinetic libs?
What other library could you compare this one to? (I usually use 8Dio, Spitfire and VSL strings).
Thanks for your feedback!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

zouzou said:


> First of all, thank you and congratulations to the Sonokinetic team for this great achievement!


Thanks!


zouzou said:


> I have been waiting for it for a long time, but I have a hesitation before the purchase:
> Are these my ears or is the tone of this string library lacking in depth?
> The sound seems high in the treble, a fairly "fine" sound, not "organic" enough for my taste... (I already have a lot of Sonokinetic libraries)


I think judging from the comments here the sound is generally very well received, I think it sounds very good, but I'm definitely slightly biased


zouzou said:


> Does the sound get closer to DaCapo and other Sonokinetic libs?


It would make sense if it did since it is recorded in the same hall.


zouzou said:


> What other library could you compare this one to? (I usually use 8Dio, Spitfire and VSL strings).


that I'm afraid I can't answer - I don't personally own any of the other ones...


zouzou said:


> Thanks for your feedback!


----------



## zouzou

Thank you Sonokinetic for your responsiveness!
I actually think that I am not taking too much risk by buying Orchestral Strings, even if (like many of us) I already have "too" many strings libraries!
This will be well suited for the Sonokinetic collections that I already own, and given the amount of work done, at this price it's really a gift.
And then, you are such a nice company, which takes care of its loyal customers and takes their comments into consideration (which sometimes becomes rare ...), that there are not many doubts that I will activate the "buy now" button before the end of 12 days of Christmas!


----------



## Drumdude2112

I’m assuming these strings sound similar to the strings in De Capo ? ( which I have and enjoy very much )


----------



## AllanH

It's not like I need another string library, but I "gave in" over the week-end. I really like the warm tone, the instrument is well thought out, and I like all the options of key switches and CC. This is going in my default template.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

For anyone not in the 12 days of Christmas thread - be quick and get some Sordinos!
A limited number are available for free, the library will then be available on a 30% discount for 48 hours. Lots more details available at https://www.sonokinetic.net/products/classical/sordino-strings/


----------



## Leo

Awesome! 
Sonokinetic sets the rules.

Many thanks.


----------



## ism

Well that's .. kind of spectacular actually.

Thanks @Sonokinetic BV !


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

ism said:


> Well that's .. kind of spectacular actually.
> 
> Thanks @Sonokinetic BV !


they sound really good too


----------



## ism

Sonokinetic BV said:


> they sound really good too


That's what I meant!


----------



## muziksculp

@Sonokinetic BV ,

The Sonokinetic *Sordino Strings* release was a big surprise for me this morning. Purchased at the 33% discount. Listening to the demos they sound amazing. 

Thank You


----------



## muziksculp

@Sonokinetic BV ,

When can we expect the Sonokinetic Strings Update to be released ? 

Thanks.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muziksculp said:


> @Sonokinetic BV ,
> 
> When can we expect the Sonokinetic Strings Update to be released ?
> 
> Thanks.


There will first be a quick fix that I’ll try to get out before Christmas

After that I would think January for the various suggestions and additions


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Sonokinetic BV said:


> There will first be a quick fix that I’ll try to get out before Christmas
> 
> After that I would think January for the various suggestions and additions


I’ve already improved the dynamics block for sordinos, so that will be in the orchestral strings too


----------



## Flyo

@Sonokinetic BV Sordino it’s a new library for matching / add muted strings to the new Orchestral S?


----------



## yellow_lupine

@Sonokinetic BV Is it possible to use a MIDI CC to change legato smear and transition level?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

yellow_lupine said:


> @Sonokinetic BV Is it possible to use a MIDI CC to change legato smear and transition level?


Yes the transition level I was going to add anyway, will add smear too


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Flyo said:


> @Sonokinetic BV Sordino it’s a new library for matching / add muted strings to the new Orchestral S?


Yes


----------



## Flyo

It is just me or these Sordino sound like the very best of all?


----------



## Nando Florestan

The sound of both libraries is beautiful... My question for users is, how plonkable do you find these? I want your plonkability score from 0 to 10, with a couple other libraries also graded on the same scale so we know what you mean.


----------



## ism

Nando Florestan said:


> The sound of both libraries is beautiful... My question for users is, how plonkable do you find these? I want your plonkability score from 0 to 10, with a couple other libraries also graded on the same scale so we know what you mean.


I agree, plonkability metrics are important. And I'd love to hear from people with the library on their sense of plonkability.

My sense (though I don't have it) is that this has a certain type of very lyrical plonkability, but not the CSS-esque plonkability that comes from a kind of baked in homogeneity of gesture.

For one thing, just left to sound on their own, these strings are gorgeous. Not very many libraries do that. They're either too static (ie. spitfire solo strings - deeply unplonkable, you absolutely have to craft the arcs), or else have so much an arc baked into them that it's completely inescapable (ie. CSS, SS, Vista - which enacts its supreme heights of plonkability by baking the progressive vibrato arc right into the both the legato and sustains.)

To me this mid-plonkability is a very nice sweet spot. The only other library that I think is comparable is, arguably, the Berlin Special Bows, which is a completely different sound.

What I also think it means is that some of the types of grand swelling gestures that maybe we're used to being baked into libraries, will need a little attention to adding a performance. There's such a point in muk's demo. CSS would have handled the swell via it's baked in plonkability. But - although of course it's very to do more that speculate wildly without owning the library - SK would benefit from crafting the arcs a bit.

Which, to me, is exactly the kind of sweet spot that I'm looking for in a library. Though needless to say ymmv.


----------



## alchemist

Sonokinetic BV said:


> They need an initial mod wheel level to set the top, so setting your mod wheel to the highest point you want it to go to and then playing should do the trick - another thing I should probably add to the Manual and Videos





alchemist said:


> I thought that might be the case, but still doesn't do anything on my end


@Sonokinetic BV I just discovered that the dynamics presets work as intended when playing in divisi, but not when playing a single note. Thought I should follow up


----------



## muk

Nando Florestan said:


> The sound of both libraries is beautiful... My question for users is, how plonkable do you find these? I want your plonkability score from 0 to 10, with a couple other libraries also graded on the same scale so we know what you mean.


This is going to be highly subjective, naturally. The most playable library that I have owned is VSL Dimension Strings. The way it responds to cc1 movement felt very natural to me. And the VSL player is the most flexible one I know, so I could configure that library exactly as I wanted. So that's a 10 for. On the lower end, Berlin Strings for me would be a three. Capsule and Sine both have glaring limitations that don't let me configure the library to suit my workflow. And I don't feel comfortable with its dynamic range and the way it reacts to cc1 movement.

On that scale, Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings is an 8 for me. It's flexible, it's configurable, and it's playable. Among the most playable libraries for me, and with a sound that I quite enjoy.


----------



## AllanH

I cannot believe that I just noticed this today, but in the legato settings the default value for legato level and portamento are both 42! If that isn't the answer to good legato, I'm not sure what is


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

AllanH said:


> I cannot believe that I just noticed this today, but in the legato settings the default value for legato level and portamento are both 42! If that isn't the answer to good legato, I'm not sure what is


haha yes
I was wondering when that would come up There's also 33's scattered around the instrument - if you're gonna set a default, why not go symbolic right!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

alchemist said:


> @Sonokinetic BV I just discovered that the dynamics presets work as intended when playing in divisi, but not when playing a single note. Thought I should follow up


yes in the flash update that we're pushing out before Christmas the Dynamics handling will be much improved - the Sordinos already have the updated dynamics.


----------



## Nando Florestan

Will this update also address the legato in the Cellos?

...Come on, answer "yes" so I can buy it!


----------



## markleake

@Sonokinetic BV . It's quite hard to work out on your website what articulations exist for these string libraries. I eventually found a list in the PDF doco (albeit the list was for a different purpose). Just wondering if you can make it clearer on your website so we don't have to go hunting. Unless I missed it somewhere?


----------



## Marko Cifer

markleake said:


> @Sonokinetic BV . It's quite hard to work out on your website what articulations exist for these string libraries. I eventually found a list in the PDF doco (albeit the list was for a different purpose). Just wondering if you can make it clearer on your website so we don't have to go hunting. Unless I missed it somewhere?


They're under the Technical Overview due to the keyswitches for them listed there (probably the same as in the PDF, come to think of it), but I agree with you that the list ought to have better discoverability/accessibility.

The screenshots at the top do list them in the interface, but a user might think that some articulations do not exist in certain patches, so it would probably be a good idea to make a comprehensive list of instruments/patches and all available articulations.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Nando Florestan said:


> Will this update also address the legato in the Cellos?
> 
> ...Come on, answer "yes" so I can buy it!


it will


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

update is coming along nicely - decided to already include some of the requests that are relatively straightforward and riskfree:




so the sustains will have a dedicated dynamic range control




...and assignable CCs for smear and transition level!
what would be good default midi CCs for smear and transition level?


----------



## markleake

Marko Cifer said:


> They're under the Technical Overview due to the keyswitches for them listed there (probably the same as in the PDF, come to think of it), but I agree with you that the list ought to have better discoverability/accessibility.


Thanks! Yes I found the keyswitch list in the manual. And just found the same right at the end of the Technical Overview. Takes a bit to find them, but they are there. Thanks again.


----------



## AllanH

I love the elegance and clear communication of the UI design, and I would like to suggest that you consider improving the contrast a for e.g. the divisi A/B a bit. At least for me in my room, it's nearly impossibly to see which one is on unless I turn the light down. How about a faint outline in orange, green, brown, or one of the other ui-colors?


----------



## Remnant

I am so happy with this library. If I had one thing on a wish list for it, it would be an ensemble patch because I am a crappy orchestrator.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Remnant said:


> I am so happy with this library. If I had one thing on a wish list for it, it would be an ensemble patch because I am a crappy orchestrator.


we might at some point in the future - would be no mic positions though else it won't fit


----------



## Donny Grace

Sonokinetic BV said:


> For anyone not in the 12 days of Christmas thread - be quick and get some Sordinos!
> A limited number are available for free, the library will then be available on a 30% discount for 48 hours. Lots more details available at https://www.sonokinetic.net/products/classical/sordino-strings/


Hate I missed the free one, but 57 bucks is still not terrible.


----------



## ricoderks

Sonokinetic BV said:


> update is coming along nicely - decided to already include some of the requests that are relatively straightforward and riskfree:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so the sustains will have a dedicated dynamic range control
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and assignable CCs for smear and transition level!
> what would be good default midi CCs for smear and transition level?


I have a suggestion. I think the morph crossfade on 50/50 should be equal volume for both articulations. Or at least a slightly different curve. This one is linear. If for example i wanna stack Spiccato on Expressive sustains and morph them 50/50 I lose volume on both articulations. So in a way i think 0-50 range is actually 0 to 100 range for 1 morph. Hope you know what i mean.


EDIT: For sustains the current fade is great. Its mainly shorts/sustain combo

Cheerio!


----------



## Remnant

Sonokinetic BV said:


> we might at some point in the future - would be no mic positions though else it won't fit


That makes sense. I would be more than happy with one mix on an ensemble patch to mostly use as a sketching tool. I have other libraries I can use for this purpose, but it would be nice to have the sketching tool with roughly the same tone and sounds as what would be in the final mix from Orchestral Strings (are we officially calling it SOS yet?)


----------



## Nando Florestan

I think what @ricoderks is getting at is this: Currently when we choose 2 articulations at once, it's optimized for vibrato / nonvibrato, with a crossfade between them. But that's not what we need when we use a short together with a sustain. In the latter case, in other libraries, the volume of the sustain usually doesn't change at all, the short providing only a sharper attack. The way it currently works really is not useful for layering a sustain with a short!

I also found today that the CPU usage in the Sordino library is pretty high. Probably the same in Orchestral Strings, since it's the same script. Since we are making suggestions, it doesn't hurt to ask if this couldn't be optimized.


----------



## ricoderks

Nando Florestan said:


> I think what @ricoderks is getting at is this: Currently when we choose 2 articulations at once, it's optimized for vibrato / nonvibrato, with a crossfade between them. But that's not what we need when we use a short together with a sustain. In the latter case, in other libraries, the volume of the sustain usually doesn't change at all, the short providing only a sharper attack. The way it currently works really is not useful for layering a sustain with a short!
> 
> I also found today that the CPU usage in the Sordino library is pretty high. Probably the same in Orchestral Strings, since it's the same script. Since we are making suggestions, it doesn't hurt to ask if this couldn't be optimized.


Yes, I've edited the post. Its not for sus/sus. That works great. Its just Shorts as overlay/attack for longs that lowers your sustain volume.


----------



## muk

Sonokinetic BV said:


> what would be good default midi CCs for smear and transition level?



Anything goes. I don't see any reason why one would be preferable over another, especially if they are user assignable.

One more idea about the smear. Is it possible to have it not only controllable by cc, but by speed if we so choose? If smear was linked to playing speed, you could create the effect that the faster you play, the more blurred the transition get. Would be a convenient way to mimick the natural imprecisions that happen when playing faster.


----------



## jon wayne

Sorry for a somewhat displaced post, but did I miss something about a celli issue? I don’t have a celli mix in my instruments. I downloaded the instrument file twice, but no mix patch.


----------



## muziksculp

jon wayne said:


> Sorry for a somewhat displaced post, but did I miss something about a celli issue? I don’t have a celli mix in my instruments. I downloaded the instrument file twice, but no mix patch.


Yes, it is a missing file from the downloads, it is supposed to be added in the next update, but if you PM @Sonokinetic he can send you the missing Celli Mix nki file. He did that for me.


----------



## ricoderks

jon wayne said:


> Sorry for a somewhat displaced post, but did I miss something about a celli issue? I don’t have a celli mix in my instruments. I downloaded the instrument file twice, but no mix patch.


Or download it from Native instruments. But it came with some other issues if i'm correct. But after you downloaded from native you could re-install the instruments only from sono installer. Then you also would have the celli mix.


----------



## Jackdaw

So is there any non-commercial review on this? ...before the intro sale runs out...


----------



## JamelaBanderson

Do you think either of the Tutti instruments will be on sale before Xmas?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

JamelaBanderson said:


> Do you think either of the Tutti instruments will be on sale before Xmas?


you never know with those people


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

quick community poll:

- the draggable midi file creation in runs and phrases will be a menu option in the next update.
- my inclination is to set the default to 'no', so there's no chance of people getting caught out by the async midi creation interrupting their flow when they are trying out the instrument. (remember that in a DAW these files are only created on DAW stop anyway so this only pertains to standalone playing or trying things when the DAw is stopped).
- my hesitation is that I like it appearing automatically and I feel people might not notice it if it is a menu option they have to manually turn on.

thoughts?


----------



## Nando Florestan

This feature absolutely has to be off by default, no doubt about it.

The CPU usage of Sonokinetic strings is already in the heavier half of the ones I measured. Ideally you'd provide additional patches with fewer features for someone like me who thinks CPU usage is important.

Not everyone hosts the instrument in the DAW either. Many people here use Vienna Ensemble Pro; I use an even worse setup, which is a notation editor capable of detailed MIDI performance connected to Reaper via virtual MIDI cables. So I am always working with the DAW stopped the way you said it -- the DAW is only a plugin host.


----------



## Markrs

Nando Florestan said:


> I use an even worse setup, which is a notation editor capable of detailed MIDI performance connected to Reaper via virtual MIDI cables.


I've never seen a setup like that, in trying to imagine how it works so that you are sending midi via notation to Reaper?


----------



## Kalli

Sonokinetic BV said:


> - my inclination is to set the default to 'no'


Good idea to make this an option. And I agree, I would prefer this not to be active by default.


----------



## Nando Florestan

Markrs said:


> I've never seen a setup like that, in trying to imagine how it works so that you are sending midi via notation to Reaper?


1. I use Presonus Notion, a notation program that has a bit of MIDI editing. I also use extensions that I made for it to make the MIDI editing more powerful, but I won't get into those now. Notion is weak at hosting many plugins and at routing audio, therefore I don't host plugins in it. It has 4 MIDI outputs, I use these.

2. I use free virtual MIDI cables to get the MIDI data and forward it to Reaper.

3. Reaper distributes the MIDI to tracks containing virtual instruments and effects. But there is never a single note in Reaper, it just reacts in real time to incoming MIDI. One of the problems with this? Plugins never know the current BPM since there's never a sequence playing. The latency compensation feature in MSS, for instance, doesn't work. Also, there's no way to apply negative track delay, so all my delays are positive. Finally, an offline bounce is impossible -- unless I get all the MIDI onto Reaper tracks, which is what I am avoiding.

The advantage of my setup is that I never need to descend into the repugnant under-world of music represented as a piano roll. I am always looking at notation. If I want to make arrangement changes after hearing the mockup, I am not going back and forth between Dorico and Cubase, no no no, the mockup and the score are in a single program. My score is full of hidden marks that create the performance, but I can print it out at any time.

The above is a simplification. I lied to you, there's more. 4 MIDI outputs from Notion is too few (this limitation is probably going away in the next major version of Notion). Therefore the MIDI cables talk to TransMIDIfier first -- this allows me to map 64 MIDI channels to 8192 channels --, and then to Reaper. Basically my score knows which patch is playing this section of the music for this staff, but the patch selection is made via a MIDI CC, not via a channel change.

Notion has a way for me to create custom techniques, such that when composing, I write "CSS" on a certain staff, and playback switches to the proper channel. I pay for this convenience when composing... with more work to set things up.


----------



## Markrs

Nando Florestan said:


> 1. I use Presonus Notion, a notation program that has a bit of MIDI editing. I also use extensions that I made for it to make the MIDI editing more powerful, but I won't get into those now. Notion is weak at hosting many plugins and at routing audio, therefore I don't host plugins in it. It has 4 MIDI outputs, I use these.
> 
> 2. I use free virtual MIDI cables to get the MIDI data and forward it to Reaper.
> 
> 3. Reaper distributes the MIDI to tracks containing virtual instruments and effects. But there is never a single note in Reaper, it just reacts in real time to incoming MIDI. One of the problems with this? Plugins never know the current BPM since there's never a sequence playing. The latency compensation feature in MSS, for instance, doesn't work. Also, there's no way to apply negative track delay, so all my delays are positive. Finally, an offline bounce is impossible -- unless I get all the MIDI onto Reaper tracks, which is what I am avoiding.
> 
> The advantage of my setup is that I never need to descend into the repugnant under-world of music represented as a piano roll. I am always looking at notation. If I want to make arrangement changes after hearing the mockup, I am not going back and forth between Dorico and Cubase, no no no, the mockup and the score are in a single program. My score is full of hidden marks that create the performance, but I can print it out at any time.
> 
> The above is a simplification. I lied to you, there's more. 4 MIDI outputs from Notion is too few (this limitation is probably going away in the next major version of Notion). Therefore the MIDI cables talk to TransMIDIfier first -- this allows me to map 64 MIDI channels to 8192 channels --, and then to Reaper. Basically my score knows which patch is playing this section of the music for this staff, but this selection is made via a MIDI CC, not via a channel change.


Wow, this is the first time i heard any one do this. I know that many would like tight integration between Studio One and Notion or Cubase and Dorico to be able to compose only in notation but had the plugin support of a DAW. Kudos for finding a way to do it.


----------



## AllanH

Sonokinetic BV said:


> ...
> quick community poll:
> 
> - the draggable midi file creation in runs and phrases will be a menu option in the next update.
> - my inclination is to set the default to 'no', so there's no chance of people getting caught out by the async midi creation interrupting their flow when they are trying out the instrument. (remember that in a DAW these files are only created on DAW stop anyway so this only pertains to standalone playing or trying things when the DAw is stopped).
> - my hesitation is that I like it appearing automatically and I feel people might not notice it if it is a menu option they have to manually turn on.
> 
> thoughts?


I suggest "OFF" as the default. It is a very unique feature, but I think midi-generation is unlikely to become an "everyday tool" for me. Runs I will just play into the DAW. There is probably a use with phrases that I have yet to realize. I very much appreciate you thinking through this.

You could always add a pop-up help notification over the midi-drag icon suggesting a visit to the preferences as a way to mitigate a new user being confused about the feature.


----------



## JamelaBanderson

Sonokinetic BV said:


> you never know with those people


You rock! Merci!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

still adding little bits and bobs to the update


----------



## zouzou

This year, it's a Sonokinetic Christmas for me ...
Finally I hit the Orchestral Strings "Buy Now" button today!
I also pressed this hypnotic button for Ostinato Noir and Indie ...
And, I was also lucky enough to be able to press the "Claim ..." button for Sordino Strings !!
Many thanks to the Sonokinetic team!
As usual, you have put a lot of beautiful gifts for us under the tree again this year!


----------



## Aldunate

Bought it. I know I sound like broken record, but please give us Expression Maps and Playback Templates for Dorico.


----------



## IURang

When loading each section, I think it would be better only some articulations are loaded. Because I don't use all the articulations. If needed, an articulation can be loaded later. And it also helps RAM usage.


----------



## Marko Cifer

So for anyone who like me is hesitant on picking up this package due to how much of the room you can hear even in the shorts on close mics - I went digging a bit under the hood in Kontakt inside the free Sordino version of the library they were so graciously giving out for a bit, and was rather surprised - it turns out that if you tame the _rel groups in the backend, you can get a much, much drier sound, it's actually not baked into the samples.

After some tweaking I managed to get it working on Violins I for the three articulations (Straight, Expressive and Staccato) for Close and Decca mics on both Divisi within Sordino Strings as a proof of concept to myself. It does make the sound more exposed (and if I had to describe it, a bit more brittle?) when you yank the room out like this, but if you just tame the _rel groups to the point where they're only slightly audible instead of deleting or disabling them fully, you get a more acceptable release behaviour for layering with drier libraries which leaves you with a lot more headroom for your own reverbs.

So if the main library is built the same way, it's possible to get a much drier sound, and it makes me a lot more interested in it again - as lovely as the default tone can be, this just makes it way more flexible.

I'll definitely pick up the library if I'd have confirmation this is possible in the larger, main product as well, so if I'd need to blend it with another rather dry library and then use an external reverb on the multi, I'd know that I can - but it would be nice if this was officially supported, not as a manual workaround in the Kontakt back-end needed to be done per section per divisi per articulation per mic position.

That way, you would be able to either fully use the sound of the room when needed (it's lovely for the right context), but also to duck it out when it's not, without having to manually create tweaked NKIs.

@Sonokinetic BV is there any chance you could enable this behaviour as an option - as a volume knob or some other control to let users determine how much of the room/the release groups are audible, if Divisi Orchestra Strings is indeed built in a similar manner than Sordino Strings? Or if that's outside of the scope of the product, can you at least confirm it's built in a similar way, so that I know I can do it manually, thus I can safely pick it up?

Thank you!


----------



## muziksculp

Marko Cifer said:


> it turns out that if you tame the _rel groups in the backend, you can get a much, much drier sound, it's actually not baked into the samples.


So by taming the release groups, you mean lowering their volume by a few db's ?


----------



## Flyo

Marko Cifer said:


> So for anyone who like me is hesitant on picking up this package due to how much of the room you can hear even in the shorts on close mics - I went digging a bit under the hood in Kontakt inside the free Sordino version of the library they were so graciously giving out for a bit, and was rather surprised - it turns out that if you tame the _rel groups in the backend, you can get a much, much drier sound, it's actually not baked into the samples.
> 
> After some tweaking I managed to get it working on Violins I for the three articulations (Straight, Expressive and Staccato) for Close and Decca mics on both Divisi within Sordino Strings as a proof of concept to myself. It does make the sound more exposed (and if I had to describe it, a bit more brittle?) when you yank the room out like this, but if you just tame the _rel groups to the point where they're only slightly audible instead of deleting or disabling them fully, you get a more acceptable release behaviour for layering with drier libraries which leaves you with a lot more headroom for your own reverbs.
> 
> So if the main library is built the same way, it's possible to get a much drier sound, and it makes me a lot more interested in it again - as lovely as the default tone can be, this just makes it way more flexible.
> 
> I'll definitely pick up the library if I'd have confirmation this is possible in the larger, main product as well, so if I'd need to blend it with another rather dry library and then use an external reverb on the multi, I'd know that I can - but it would be nice if this was officially supported, not as a manual workaround in the Kontakt back-end needed to be done per section per divisi per articulation per mic position.
> 
> That way, you would be able to either fully use the sound of the room when needed (it's lovely for the right context), but also to duck it out when it's not, without having to manually create tweaked NKIs.
> 
> @Sonokinetic BV is there any chance you could enable this behaviour as an option - as a volume knob or some other control to let users determine how much of the room/the release groups are audible, if Divisi Orchestra Strings is indeed built in a similar manner than Sordino Strings? Or if that's outside of the scope of the product, can you at least confirm it's built in a similar way, so that I know I can do it manually, thus I can safely pick it up?
> 
> Thank you!


Amazing research and request! So much useful


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Marko Cifer said:


> So for anyone who like me is hesitant on picking up this package due to how much of the room you can hear even in the shorts on close mics - I went digging a bit under the hood in Kontakt inside the free Sordino version of the library they were so graciously giving out for a bit, and was rather surprised - it turns out that if you tame the _rel groups in the backend, you can get a much, much drier sound, it's actually not baked into the samples.
> 
> After some tweaking I managed to get it working on Violins I for the three articulations (Straight, Expressive and Staccato) for Close and Decca mics on both Divisi within Sordino Strings as a proof of concept to myself. It does make the sound more exposed (and if I had to describe it, a bit more brittle?) when you yank the room out like this, but if you just tame the _rel groups to the point where they're only slightly audible instead of deleting or disabling them fully, you get a more acceptable release behaviour for layering with drier libraries which leaves you with a lot more headroom for your own reverbs.
> 
> So if the main library is built the same way, it's possible to get a much drier sound, and it makes me a lot more interested in it again - as lovely as the default tone can be, this just makes it way more flexible.
> 
> I'll definitely pick up the library if I'd have confirmation this is possible in the larger, main product as well, so if I'd need to blend it with another rather dry library and then use an external reverb on the multi, I'd know that I can - but it would be nice if this was officially supported, not as a manual workaround in the Kontakt back-end needed to be done per section per divisi per articulation per mic position.
> 
> That way, you would be able to either fully use the sound of the room when needed (it's lovely for the right context), but also to duck it out when it's not, without having to manually create tweaked NKIs.
> 
> @Sonokinetic BV is there any chance you could enable this behaviour as an option - as a volume knob or some other control to let users determine how much of the room/the release groups are audible, if Divisi Orchestra Strings is indeed built in a similar manner than Sordino Strings? Or if that's outside of the scope of the product, can you at least confirm it's built in a similar way, so that I know I can do it manually, thus I can safely pick it up?
> 
> Thank you!


Hi!

I can confirm both Libraries are built in the same way.

However, your workaround will not be saved with the instrument since the group volume is reset by the script when you relaunch the instrument. 

I would be slightly hesitant putting this control in because of the potential to make the instrument sound bad/fake when not adding your own reverb on top. I will consider it for a future update if there's a broad base for the function being included - it needs some research regarding volume curves and upper and lower limits. 

Also we'd need to figure out how granular this would need to be, would it need separate control for shorts/sustains/releases in legato transitions vs releases at end of notes etc.


----------



## Nando Florestan

I am +1 for control of the volume of release samples and I even think all sample libraries should include that.

I just went through something similar. The sound of Modern Scoring Strings isn't the farthest from SOS. I have been using MSS, but I heard a buildup in the cellos when they were playing just a bit fast. I perceived it as an excessive sound in the legatos, as if notes were fading out too late. I even intended to replace MSS with something else in that bit, it was very annoying, it sounded gooey and sticky. I tolerated this for ~2 weeks, always thinking about it. At the same time, it didn't make sense for MSS to have such a glaring defect...

Suddenly I heard that bit without my reverb and bam, the issue was gone, the legato sounded perfect. Now my reverb isn't loud or intrusive, it is Phoenix at -12 dB. The way I am dealing with this is, now the cellos send to the reverb at -18 dB. The reverb is almost impossible to hear, which is a new problem -- ends of phrases have no magic anymore. The idea of automating the reverb send, so it goes up at the end of a phrase, is obvious, but it's also a maintenance nightmare. The MSS UI doesn't have a widget for me to control the loudness of legato transitions, which would be a better fix, I think.

**EDIT: MSS totally does have a transition volume knob, and it's pretty easy to find! I am just dim, that's all.

Maybe this kind of configuration should be well hidden, but it does make life so much easier when it's there. Most sample library developers get the loudness wrong with legato transitions and release samples that call way too much attention to themselves. (Cinematic Studio, CineSamples and 8dio come to mind.) We are told to add reverb and the problem gets even worse.


----------



## mussnig

Some competitor's libs have a release control on most patches and I am really glad it's there. I regularly encounter situations where I need to adjust this setting and I am glad it's possible.


----------



## kgdrum

wrong thread


----------



## Marko Cifer

Sonokinetic BV said:


> I would be slightly hesitant putting this control in because of the potential to make the instrument sound bad/fake when not adding your own reverb on top. I will consider it for a future update if there's a broad base for the function being included - it needs some research regarding volume curves and upper and lower limits.


Yeah I fully understand the hesitation, it does radically change the sound (I do feel a lot of the tone remains even in the "dry" version, but if you're not used to hearing dry strings, I can see how it would be off-putting to someone), but thanks for confirming it's built the same way. I'll go pick up the instrument right now - if nothing else, I'll know that I can manually apply the same technique when needed.

edit: And purchased. Would still appreciate an official solution down the line if enough interest is shown and it wouldn't cause too much work/dev-time.



muziksculp said:


> So by taming the release groups, you mean lowering their volume by a few db's ?


In my case I applied a Limiter to those groups as a Group Insert FX. I am by no means very knowledgeable in the back-end of Kontakt, so that was the only way at this time that I could make it work. And the patch seems to be re-loadable, as the changes "stay" when I load the patch, so I don't need to re-apply the changes every time I load the instrument. But it's not perfect, just a proof-of-concept.

This will be a good motivation to learn more about the back-end.


----------



## Henning

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Hi!
> 
> I can confirm both Libraries are built in the same way.
> 
> However, your workaround will not be saved with the instrument since the group volume is reset by the script when you relaunch the instrument.
> 
> I would be slightly hesitant putting this control in because of the potential to make the instrument sound bad/fake when not adding your own reverb on top. I will consider it for a future update if there's a broad base for the function being included - it needs some research regarding volume curves and upper and lower limits.
> 
> Also we'd need to figure out how granular this would need to be, would it need separate control for shorts/sustains/releases in legato transitions vs releases at end of notes etc.


I generally think a release tail control option would be good. I know we have often discussed release sample volumes during the beta  So being able to adjust this as a user would be helpful. I have seen it in other recent and even not so recent libs as well.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Henning said:


> I generally think a release tail control option would be good. I know we have often discussed release sample volumes during the beta  So being able to adjust this as a user would be helpful. I have seen it in other recent and even not so recent libs as well.


Cool seems there’s definitely a demand, will add!


----------



## Marko Cifer

I have to say - after trying the library out for myself, I am so glad I picked it up.

With some polish/tweaks and enhancements through updates, and knowing that I can tweak some things in the back-end to my own tastes even further, I can see this becoming my main library and having the other ones I own enhancing it.

Time to make some tweaks/Multis.


----------



## Maddy

@Sonokinetic BV Love the sound! Glad I picked it up on sale 
A couple of questions/requests:
1. An Ensemble patch would help with quick sketches particularly programming with the short strings articulations.
2. The ram utilization of each patch seems to be a little high.. Would it be possible to organize it into individual folders with instrument-articulation patches? I believe that could save some serious disk/ram utilization and also make the library more organized and easy to quickly load up a single articulation type. (Familiar with the purge options. But still this would help a lot as an organized library is easier to use.)

Example Folder - Articulations Structure:


Code:


1st Violins:
   - Sustains:
        - Expressive
        - Straight
        - Sul Tasto
        ....
   - Marcatos:
        - Expressive
        - Straight
        - Short
....
  - Shorts:
        - Spiccato
        - Staccatissimo
        - Staccato
        - Pizzicato
....
Celli:
   - Sustains:
        - Expressive
        - Straight
        - Sul Tasto
        ....
   - Marcatos:
        - Expressive
        - Straight
        - Short
        ....
....

3. Just a small On/Off button at the bottom above the Sonokinetic logo (settings menu opener) that'd easily help toggle the Legato On/Off would be super cool. This is just a personal opinion.. could maybe take into consideration if more users support this?
4. Is there any particular reason for the master tune being 442 instead of the usual 440?

Thanks again! Appreciate your support 🙌


----------



## NekujaK

For those concerned about the memory footprint of SOS, you can always use Kontakt's own memory management combo: Purge and Reset Markers. This will cause Kontakt to only load samples as they are needed. This is a common technique when setting up templates and saves on RAM usage.


----------



## Rich4747

Maddy said:


> @Sonokinetic BV Love the sound! Glad I picked it up on sale
> A couple of questions/requests:
> 1. An Ensemble patch would help with quick sketches particularly programming with the short strings articulations.
> 2. The ram utilization of each patch seems to be a little high.. Would it be possible to organize it into individual folders with instrument-articulation patches? I believe that could save some serious disk/ram utilization and also make the library more organized and easy to quickly load up a single articulation type. (Familiar with the purge type options in Kontakt. But still this would help a lot as a organized library is easier to use.)
> Example Folder - Articulations Structure:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 1st Violins:
> - Sustains:
> - Expressive
> - Straight
> - Sul Tasto
> ....
> - Marcatos:
> - Expressive
> - Straight
> - Short
> ....
> - Shorts:
> - Spiccato
> - Staccatissimo
> - Staccato
> - Pizzicato
> ....
> Celli:
> - Sustains:
> - Expressive
> - Straight
> - Sul Tasto
> ....
> - Marcatos:
> - Expressive
> - Straight
> - Short
> ....
> ....
> 
> 3. Just a small On/Off button at the bottom above the Sonokinetic logo (settings menu opener) that'd easily help toggle the Legato On/Off would be super cool. This is just a personal opinion.. could maybe take into consideration if more users support this?
> 4. Is there any particular reason for the master tune being 442 instead of the usual 440?
> 
> Thanks again! Appreciate your support 🙌


good ideas here imo. Ensemble patch


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

NekujaK said:


> For those concerned about the memory footprint of SOS, you can always use Kontakt's own memory management combo: Purge and Reset Markers. This will cause Kontakt to only load samples as they are needed. This is a common technique when setting up templates and saves on RAM usage.


you can:

cmd/ctrl-click a block title to purge the whole block and save some RAM
cmd/ctrl-click an articulation to purge its samples from RAM

clicking on either the title or the articulation loads it back again


----------



## sostenuto

OK. Lost track of what, on which days. Other pressing stuff than follow this often.
Thought sure to get Indie and Largo before promo end, but missed. Too bad. Maybe 2022.


----------



## Kalli

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Cool seems there’s definitely a demand, will add!


Yay! If you're still counting votes, here's +1 for release tail control.


Maddy said:


> 1. An Ensemble patch would help with quick sketches


+1 for this too. Would be super useful.

@Sonokinetic BV, I love how responsive you are to customer feedback. It feels like we're all part of making this into the best possible string library.


----------



## muziksculp

I love the spirit, and professionalism of @Sonokinetic BV , his efforts in improving, and pleasing users of this library deserves a big round of applause.

Plus this Strings library sounds wonderful, and is only bound to get better, and better with each update, and refinement.

I wish other Sample Developers learn something from his example here.

Thank You @Sonokinetic BV You are a First-Class Sample Developer


----------



## Gamin Ricks

Maddy said:


> @Sonokinetic BV Love the sound! Glad I picked it up on sale
> A couple of questions/requests:
> 1. An Ensemble patch would help with quick sketches particularly programming with the short strings articulations.
> 2. The ram utilization of each patch seems to be a little high.. Would it be possible to organize it into individual folders with instrument-articulation patches? I believe that could save some serious disk/ram utilization and also make the library more organized and easy to quickly load up a single articulation type. (Familiar with the purge options. But still this would help a lot as an organized library is easier to use.)
> 
> Example Folder - Articulations Structure:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 1st Violins:
> - Sustains:
> - Expressive
> - Straight
> - Sul Tasto
> ....
> - Marcatos:
> - Expressive
> - Straight
> - Short
> ....
> - Shorts:
> - Spiccato
> - Staccatissimo
> - Staccato
> - Pizzicato
> ....
> Celli:
> - Sustains:
> - Expressive
> - Straight
> - Sul Tasto
> ....
> - Marcatos:
> - Expressive
> - Straight
> - Short
> ....
> ....
> 
> 3. Just a small On/Off button at the bottom above the Sonokinetic logo (settings menu opener) that'd easily help toggle the Legato On/Off would be super cool. This is just a personal opinion.. could maybe take into consideration if more users support this?
> 4. Is there any particular reason for the master tune being 442 instead of the usual 440?
> 
> Thanks again! Appreciate your support 🙌


+1 for the release tail control and ensemble idea. The 2nd and 3rd point is also something I'd vote for. Like a more organized easy to choose from kinda approach most sample libraries follow and a simple legato switch.
@Sonokinetic BV could that also be considered in the future updates?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Gamin Ricks said:


> +1 for the release tail control and ensemble idea. The 2nd and 3rd point is also something I'd vote for. Like a more organized easy to choose from kinda approach most sample libraries follow and a simple legato switch.
> @Sonokinetic BV could that also be considered in the future updates?


Aiming for tomorrow release with the update - it is a big [email protected]!


----------



## Gamin Ricks

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Aiming for tomorrow release with the update - it is a big [email protected]!


Awesome! Love how quickly @Sonokinetic BV are considering suggestions and even implementing them before we refresh the page. I was hoping to hear your thoughts on the other points:
1. ensemble patch 
2. organizing the library into individual articulation patches
3. the small legato switch is something that even I've been wishing for

I understand it could not be a quick update thing we can expect but surely would love to have in the future updates. Please share your thoughts on the same. Thanks


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Gamin Ricks said:


> Awesome! Love how quickly @Sonokinetic BV are considering suggestions and even implementing them before we refresh the page. I was hoping to hear your thoughts on the other points:
> 1. ensemble patch


this has many ramifications and is something for the next major update - possibly at the same time we port the woodwinds to this script. It requires a great deal of script and UI changes


Gamin Ricks said:


> 2. organizing the library into individual articulation patches


we will do snapshots - we had already started making those but didn't finish them in time


Gamin Ricks said:


> 3. the small legato switch is something that even I've been wishing for


this is relatively easy to do - I think we'll add a velocity sensitive keyswitch too...the top C is still available - but will not be in this update


Gamin Ricks said:


> I understand it could not be a quick update thing we can expect but surely would love to have in the future updates. Please share your thoughts on the same. Thanks


----------



## fduncan

Hi, I bought the library yesterday and somehow the Dynamics do not seem to work properly. It could be me though.
Right now, all the dynamics work the same, i.e. as the "mod wheel" option. So let's say I choose "crescendo". As I understand it, you play the first note and set the value with CC1 (modwheel), then all the following notes will play a crescendo to that value. Actually, that does not happen, even the first note does not play a crescendo. And of course, it does not work either with the "cresc-dim" & "sfz crescendo". Is there something I'm doing wrong ? Thank you very much. Other than that, the library is great, I like it very much.

[edit] btw, I did a batch resave, could it be the culprit ?


----------



## Drumdude2112

Only Two hours left ….i was still undecided.
So i purchased it along with Noir (which i was SO hoping for in the sale) Sonokinetic owned xmas this without a doubt 👍🏻


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

fduncan said:


> Hi, I bought the library yesterday and somehow the Dynamics do not seem to work properly. It could be me though.
> Right now, all the dynamics work the same, i.e. as the "mod wheel" option. So let's say I choose "crescendo". As I understand it, you play the first note and set the value with CC1 (modwheel), then all the following notes will play a crescendo to that value. Actually, that does not happen, even the first note does not play a crescendo. And of course, it does not work either with the "cresc-dim" & "sfz crescendo". Is there something I'm doing wrong ? Thank you very much. Other than that, the library is great, I like it very much.
> 
> [edit] btw, I did a batch resave, could it be the culprit ?


did you download using the Sonokinetic Manager or through NI? 
There's a big update coming (hopefully tomorrow but in the next few days in any case) - it should fix most issues people were having


----------



## YahmezTV

Well you've done it. You've sold me a phrase based library, which is something I've never been interested in before Noir. Look forward to digging in and playing around with some moody textures!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

YahmezTV said:


> Well you've done it. You've sold me a phrase based library, which is something I've never been interested in before Noir. Look forward to digging in and playing around with some moody textures!


Careful I heard they can be addictive


----------



## Simon Ravn

Just got these. I must say the sound is really stellar!

Maybe I am stupid, but is there no way to customise the keyswitching keys? I use a dedicated controller to trigger KS and it would be nice to be able to set it to start at C-2 like I do for all other libraries.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Simon Ravn said:


> Just got these. I must say the sound is really stellar!
> 
> Maybe I am stupid, but is there no way to customise the keyswitching keys? I use a dedicated controller to trigger KS and it would be nice to be able to set it to start at C-2 like I do for all other libraries.


that's not a function that's there at the moment - might be something we can add in the future.
There's also the velocity Keyswitch key, but that is not for live playing...


----------



## Zedcars

Drumdude2112 said:


> Only Two hours left ….i was still undecided.
> So i purchased it along with Noir (which i was SO hoping for in the sale) Sonokinetic owned xmas this without a doubt 👍🏻


That's exactly what I just did with less than 10 minutes to go! 😯

Although, I'm wondering if they will extend the intro pricing deadline for SOS. That seems to be a common tactic with major library releases.


----------



## fduncan

Sonokinetic BV said:


> did you download using the Sonokinetic Manager or through NI?
> There's a big update coming (hopefully tomorrow but in the next few days in any case) - it should fix most issues people were having


Thanks for your reply. I downloaded it with Sonokinetic Manager.


----------



## Cass Hansen

Got it! Amazing! 

Plonkability is topnotch and effective, obviously took a page from Windows Plonk and Play. Knobology is well planned too. Great job to all you Sonokinecticans!

Cass


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

fduncan said:


> Thanks for your reply. I downloaded it with Sonokinetic Manager.


Just a little wait for the update, it’s finished and being tested now


----------



## fduncan

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Just a little wait for the update, it’s finished and being tested now


Great news  , I can wait, anyway I will be busy with xmas from now on 

[Edit] and congratulations for the support, amazing, really


----------



## gpax

Sonokinetic BV said:


> did you download using the Sonokinetic Manager or through NI?
> There's a big update coming (hopefully tomorrow but in the next few days in any case) - it should fix most issues people were having


Which are you advocating here? I actually chose the Native Access route for the first time, though I have always used the SK Manager before. Are these two options in sync in terms of accessing updates?


----------



## ansthenia

Couldn't resist, bought them before sale ended, it was too generous. Can't wait for download to finish and take them out for a spin.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

gpax said:


> Which are you advocating here? I actually chose the Native Access route for the first time, though I have always used the SK Manager before. Are these two options in sync in terms of accessing updates?


In this case it’s a funny one the native instruments one has some bugs in the nkr that were fixed in the one on our server, and the one on our server was missing some files 
Download whichever one and then get our update using Sonokinetic manager when it comes out - still aiming for tomorrow if the tests find no issues with the new features


----------



## Mistro

Hi. Will the update show in Native access when released? I'm still downloading through NI atm.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Mistro said:


> Hi. Will the update show in Native access when released? I'm still downloading through NI atm.


It will first be in Sonokinetic Manager - we will then send it to NI and they will have to make an update installer, but we don't know how long that will take. 
The update is tiny though so you can just let the download through NI finish, and then do the update in Sonokinetic Manager when available


----------



## Loïc D

Bought it yesterday with the Sordinos.
Excellent product, you have greatly improved over the years.

Also, I drop a few words of support for you fellow Dutch entering another lockdown period right before Christmas :(


----------



## Maddy

Sonokinetic BV said:


> this has many ramifications and is something for the next major update - possibly at the same time we port the woodwinds to this script. It requires a great deal of script and UI changes
> 
> we will do snapshots - we had already started making those but didn't finish them in time
> 
> this is relatively easy to do - I think we'll add a velocity sensitive keyswitch too...the top C is still available - but will not be in this update


Sounds great! Thank you @Sonokinetic BV for the response


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Hey guys *you can find the update in the Sonokinetic Manager* now.*






Version 1.2 (because 1.0 was the Native Access one and 1.1 the original Sonokinetiic Manager one)
FIXES
- The 8. celli mix.nki instrument was missing - added now
- Some users did not get the Data folder with their download - it includes finetuning for Legato and individual note tuning settings - it is included in this update
- Fixed an issue where, with two or more Mic positions selected, some notes that have individual leveling correction would pop out really loud
- Tails were too loud in some of the Mix patches
- We did more individual note leveling between Sustain, Tail and Legato Samples (more to come)
- in the mix instruments, the Staccato articulation was monophonic because of a zero division issue
CHANGES
- added separate control in the 'Play' Options menu for dynamic range/velocity sensitivity for the short articulations
- added control for Release Sample Volume in the Legato Options menu
- removed the menu items 'show note names in piano roll' in Runs and 'show analysis in picker' because they were unnecessary
- added menu items to turn the creation of draggable midi off when not needed for runs and phrases mode - it is now off by default
- added assignable MIDI CC for legato smear and transition level
- the Sonokinetic logo button will also open the respective menus in Runs mode now

_*For those of you who downloaded using Native Access initially, it might not show up as an update. You can either wait for NI to have checked the update and made their installer, of do a semi manual install using the Sonokinetic Manager. In order to do this you should make sure that the *download location of the Sonokinetic Manager is set to the folder containing your Sonokinetic Libraries*, and then download only the Sonokinetic.Orchestral.Strings.Instruments.rar file. 
Note: if the update button is showing for you you don't have to worry about this, just click it and you're good _


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

The update is highly recommended for all users, if you liked it before you’ll love it now


----------



## Evans

Is there a "finished" state that we should expect to see? I've been stuck here for a while (about ten minute so far). I've done a pause and resume to see if it nudges things forward, but it did not.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Evans said:


> Is there a "finished" state that we should expect to see? I've been stuck here for a while (about ten minute so far). I've done a pause and resume to see if it nudges things forward, but it did not.


yes it should just finish and be done with it 
Could you close the manager and open it again?

if that doesn't help please contact support.sonokinetic.net


----------



## Kalli

Sonokinetic BV said:


> The update is highly recommended for all users, if you liked it before you’ll love it now


Indeed, these are fantastic new features. The adjustable release tails makes the shorts so much more blendable. Thanks for a great and quick update!

I'm a little confused by the "shorts volume handling", though. I thought "velocity only" would make the dynamics completely independent of the mod wheel, but I can't get that to work. With that option enabled, the mod wheel still sets the top of range. Am I doing something wrong? I've tested with both Violins I and Cellos.


----------



## Evans

Sonokinetic BV said:


> yes it should just finish and be done with it
> Could you close the manager and open it again?
> 
> if that doesn't help please contact support.sonokinetic.net


I'll give Support a holler. After closing and re-opening the app, it actually started redownloading the entire library. I didn't click a single thing before this started.






EDIT: I canceled that, closed the app, and tried the update again. Completed within seconds. Good, but weird!


----------



## Kalli

Evans said:


> I'll give Support a holler. After closing and re-opening the app, it actually started redownloading the entire library. I didn't click a single thing before this started.


I hade the same issue at first. I cancelled the download of the whole library, and then went in and manually selected to download only the instruments file. Worked like a charm.


----------



## Evans

Kalli said:


> I thought "velocity only" would make the dynamics completely independent of the mod wheel, but I can't get that to work. With that option enabled, the mod wheel still sets the top of range. Am I doing something wrong? I've tested with both Violins I and Cellos.


It's strange in that it doesn't seem like quite as much of a range limitation as before (unless my memory is off, having not spent much time with it), but it's still there.


----------



## Rich4747

The sordino update completed fast and was updated. The Orchestral strings seemed to download quick but did not give a finished indication and did not update the library. So I will try to just redownload the instrument file. That worked so now all is updated. Thank you


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Kalli said:


> Indeed, these are fantastic new features. The adjustable release tails makes the shorts so much more blendable. Thanks for a great and quick update!
> 
> I'm a little confused by the "shorts volume handling", though. I thought "velocity only" would make the dynamics completely independent of the mod wheel, but I can't get that to work. With that option enabled, the mod wheel still sets the top of range. Am I doing something wrong? I've tested with both Violins I and Cellos.


this is odd it worked in our testing - it's just for the short articulations but that's clear right  Could you contact support.sonokinetic.net with an audio/video example?


----------



## Kalli

Sonokinetic BV said:


> this is odd it worked in our testing - it's just for the short articulations but that's clear right  Could you contact support.sonokinetic.net with an audio/video example?


Indeed, I've only tried with the shorts. Just to make sure, the intended behavior is to make dynamics completely independent of the modwheel, right? If so, I'll contact support with an example.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Kalli said:


> Indeed, I've only tried with the shorts. Just to make sure, the intended behavior is to make dynamics completely independent of the modwheel, right? If so, I'll contact support with an example.


Yes, that is what it should do


----------



## Kalli

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Yes, that is what it should do


Great, thanks! I'll send an example to support then.


----------



## Evans

Kalli said:


> Great, thanks! I'll send an example to support then.


Thanks for sending the example. What I hear on mine with "velocity only" enabled isn't anywhere near the difference of the "mod wheel limits...." function, but it's still a slight reduction. I'd say about a 10% difference when modwheel is full-up versus full-down, when "velocity only" is enabled.

Basically, modwheel all the way down never gives the top-most dynamic.


----------



## mgaewsj

Evans said:


> Is there a "finished" state that we should expect to see? I've been stuck here for a while (about ten minute so far). I've done a pause and resume to see if it nudges things forward, but it did not.


same problem for me but after relaunching I cannot update (nothing happens when clicking on the Update Version button). I already contacted support.
Note: the Sordino update went smoothly.


----------



## lucky909091

Did you also correct the cello note G2 in sustain/expressivo mode?
The ending of the note was not in tune.


----------



## Rich4747

For some reason every outputs for every track in my template has now been reset to missing. I use cubase 10.5 when I create a new instrument trk its connected correctly


----------



## Kalli

Evans said:


> I'd say about a 10% difference when modwheel is full-up versus full-down, when "velocity only" is enabled.


For me the difference is considerably more pronounced than that. I’ll let you know when I hear back from support!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Rich4747 said:


> For some reason every input for every track in my template has now been reset to missing. I use cubase 10.5 when I create a new instrument trk its connected correctly


we had to do some changes to NKS so the instruments have been replaced - I thought that shouldn't matter for the template though?


----------



## Rich4747

Sonokinetic BV said:


> we had to do some changes to NKS so the instruments have been replaced - I thought that shouldn't matter for the template though?


Yeah its a very interesting thing. For some strange reason after the update all my exsisting template tracks outputs were set to missing. but when I create a new track its fine and the outputs are correct. Sorry on my original post I said inputs but I meant outputs. for non Kontakt tracks also. So I set all the missing outputs back to my keyboard and it appears to be back to normal again after I saved and restarted cubase.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Rich4747 said:


> Yeah its a very interesting thing. For some strange reason after the update all my exsisting template tracks outputs were set to missing. but when I create a new track its fine and the outputs are correct. Sorry on my original post I said inputs but I meant outputs. for non Kontakt tracks also


This is really odd, no idea how that could happen


----------



## Rich4747

Yeah it is odd. things are working again, but I am curios to know if others using cubase with a template have issues.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I originally installed SOS using the Sonokinetic Downloader after I purchased it. I didn't use Native Acces.

So, regarding the 1.2 update, I just want to double check that I only need to download the instruments (nki) folder, and not have to do a full download of the library, (Correct) ? 



mgaewsj said:


> Note: the Sordino update went smoothly.


Is there an update for the Sordino Strings as well ? if Yes, what does the update offer ? 

Thanks.


----------



## jon wayne

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I originally installed SOS using the Sonokinetic Downloader after I purchased it. I didn't use Native Acces.
> 
> So, regarding the 1.2 update, I just want to double check that I only need to download the instruments (nki) folder, and not have to do a full download of the library, (Correct) ?
> 
> 
> Is there an update for the Sordino Strings as well ? if Yes, what does the update offer ?
> 
> Thanks.


Where do you see 1.2 instruments? I have downloaded twice, instruments still the same.


----------



## muziksculp

jon wayne said:


> Where do you see 1.2 instruments? I have downloaded twice, instruments still the same.


I didn't launch the Sonokinetic Downloader yet, so I'm not sure if there is an Instruments only folder, or not. I just want to know what do I need to download to update to 1.2 , if I use the Sonokinetic Downloader.


----------



## muziksculp

OK, used the Sonokinetic Download manager, and saw the updates for both the Sordino, and Orchestral Strings available, just directed the downloader to the location of the library folder for each download, and clicked the update button, all was done in less than a minute. No issues with updating. 

Thank for the updates @Sonokinetic BV .


----------



## YaniDee

I wish I could see the version numbers of the libraries I own. It is not shown in the manager, nor on my account page..Is there an update for Sordino? I originally installed by direct links through the manager, and I don't see any update there, or in Native Access..


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

jon wayne said:


> Where do you see 1.2 instruments? I have downloaded twice, instruments still the same.


As of now the updates are only in Sonokinetic manager, make sure you point the manager to the folder containing your Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings folder. You should see the difference in the menus inside the instruments, the play and legato menus have extra options


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

YaniDee said:


> I wish I could see the version numbers of the libraries I own. It is not shown in the manager, nor on my account page..Is there an update for Sordino? I originally installed by direct links through the manager, and I don't see any update there, or in Native Access..


There should be a version.lib file next to the nicnt that shows the version inside


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Sonokinetic BV said:


> There should be a version.lib file next to the nicnt that shows the version inside


The manager should also show it, on the right hand side


----------



## YaniDee

Sonokinetic BV said:


> There should be a version.lib file next to the nicnt that shows the version inside


I have that file in all the libs I own, but not in Sordino (which is the one library I have in another hard drive) I re-downloaded the Sordino Instruments archive, but nothing changed.
Edit: I think it updated..cause I see some extra inst files..


----------



## Kalli

Man, I love how crisp and bouncy these shorts and marcatos are! I just had to try them out on an old favorite...

View attachment SOS Appalachian Spring.mp3


[Excerpt from Appalachian Spring - A. Copland]


----------



## muziksculp

Kalli said:


> Man, I love how crisp and bouncy these shorts and marcatos are! I just had to try them out on an old favorite...
> 
> View attachment SOS Appalachian Spring.mp3


Super Lovely ! and they sound very realistic, and natural. Yes, Crisp is a good description. 

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Sonokinetic BV said:


> The update is highly recommended for all users, if you liked it before you’ll love it now


Love the library but is there a way to use both Divisi A and Divisi B at the same time when playing chords instead of using Auto? I think the library sounds even better when loading up a patch and selecting Div A then load up another patch and select Div B and playing both patches together for octaves and chords. Could you have another option for playing Div A and Div B together instead of Auto or is there a way of doing using both Divisi sections together for octaves and chords instead of having to load up 2 separate patches?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

dhowarthmusic said:


> Love the library but is there a way to use both Divisi A and Divisi B at the same time when playing chords instead of using Auto? I think the library sounds even better when loading up a patch and selecting Div A then load up another patch and select Div B and playing both patches together for octaves and chords. Could you have another option for playing Div A and Div B together instead of Auto or is there a way of doing using both Divisi sections together for octaves and chords instead of having to load up 2 separate patches?


Hah I hadn't thought of that - sort of defies the purpose of doing Divisi though...
I would have to look into that for a possible future update, but not sure what the ramifications could be because the divisi is very much intertwined with the poly legato script and it gets complicated quickly - any changes in that area would have to be checked extremely thoroughly!


----------



## dhowarthmusic

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Hah I hadn't thought of that - sort of defies the purpose of doing Divisi though...
> I would have to look into that for a possible future update, but not sure what the ramifications could be because the divisi is very much intertwined with the poly legato script and it gets complicated quickly - any changes in that area would have to be checked extremely thoroughly!


It's not a big deal as you can just load up 2 patches and get the same effect and select Div A on one patch and Div 2 on the other patch. I always layer strings for a thicker sound and have never been a fan of Divisi but if you can have a button to switch off the Divisi in a future update that would be great!


----------



## Go To 11

Sonokinetic BV said:


> Hah I hadn't thought of that - sort of defies the purpose of doing Divisi though...
> I would have to look into that for a possible future update, but not sure what the ramifications could be because the divisi is very much intertwined with the poly legato script and it gets complicated quickly - any changes in that area would have to be checked extremely thoroughly!


The benefit would be that one could use the library as a Chamber strings library, which I personally think would be great! At that point I would only expect regular legato, not poly legato. Sort of how Native Instruments did with their strings, where you can select both sections, or Section A or B, if you like the sound of one over the other.


----------



## Kalli

Go To 11 said:


> The benefit would be that one could use the library as a Chamber strings library, which I personally think would be great! At that point I would only expect regular legato, not poly legato. Sort of how Native Instruments did with their strings, where you can select both sections, or Section A or B, if you like the sound of one over the other.


Can’t you achieve that already by switching to mono legato? As long as you play a single line it will choose section A, B or both depending on your setting on the main page. It’s only the poly legato that’s not possible with both sections I think.


----------



## cleverr1

I'm not seeing the SOS 1.2 update in sonokinetic manager. I originally downloaded SOS with native access. Do I need to download the entire library via sonokinetic manager to get the update?


----------



## Evans

cleverr1 said:


> I'm not seeing the SOS 1.2 update in sonokinetic manager. I originally downloaded SOS with native access. Do I need to download the entire library via sonokinetic manager to get the update?





> *For those of you who downloaded using Native Access initially, it might not show up as an update. You can either wait for NI to have checked the update and made their installer, of do a semi manual install using the Sonokinetic Manager. In order to do this you should make sure that the *download location of the Sonokinetic Manager is set to the folder containing your Sonokinetic Libraries*, and then download only the Sonokinetic.Orchestral.Strings.Instruments.rar file.
> Note: if the update button is showing for you you don't have to worry about this, just click it and you're good


----------



## cleverr1

Thanks - I missed that post.


----------



## Kalli

@Sonokinetic BV , you mentioned earlier that you might add an easily accessible legato on/off switch. Is that still the plan? In the meantime, is there any way to assign a custom keyswitch or CC to toggle legato? I tried "Learn MIDI CC# Automation" in Kontakt but couldn't get it to work.

Another thing, which I couldn't find in the manual: When legato is switched off, is auto divisi still active (i.e., are notes still split up between divisi sections)? Or are all notes played by whichever divisi section(s) you've selected in the options?


----------



## muk

Kalli said:


> I'm a little confused by the "shorts volume handling", though. I thought "velocity only" would make the dynamics completely independent of the mod wheel, but I can't get that to work. With that option enabled, the mod wheel still sets the top of range. Am I doing something wrong? I've tested with both Violins I and Cellos.



Can confirm that it is the same for me. I'm on Windows 11, and Cubase 11. The 'velcity only' option does not work on my system. Whether it is toggled on or off, the modwheel always sets the top of the range. I hope this can be fixed in a future update.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

I was able to manualy update Sordino Strings but it seem the manager doesn't like it and is responding very slowly. It's still offers me to update to 1.1 and then toggle to updated status and then back to v 1.1 etc etc... Minor problem but i thought i should mention it. I'm on win 10.


----------



## Maddy

@Sonokinetic BV Thanks for the update guys! Great job coming up with a valuable update so quickly!

Apologies if this has already been pointed out. But with the Celli patch (Sustain expressive) I hear the C#3/D3 sounding a bit odd maybe even harsh when moving from another note... Tried handling the modulation but it doesn't happen with any other note. Say I move from a C3 to D#3 I don't have this problem with same dynamics. But when moving from say a C3 to C#3 or D3 it's sounding a bit harsh. Maybe the sample for these 2 notes are not faded-in (just taking a guess, I might be totally wrong). Could you guys please check this? And I have updated.. not sure if this was there previously.


----------



## jon wayne

Noticed it also. Figured I would adjust velocity when necessary. I think it might make the next update if we chime in.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Maddy said:


> @Sonokinetic BV Thanks for the update guys! Great job coming up with a valuable update so quickly!
> 
> Apologies if this has already been pointed out. But with the Celli patch (Sustain expressive) I hear the C#3/D3 sounding a bit odd maybe even harsh when moving from another note... Tried handling the modulation but it doesn't happen with any other note. Say I move from a C3 to D#3 I don't have this problem with same dynamics. But when moving from say a C3 to C#3 or D3 it's sounding a bit harsh. Maybe the sample for these 2 notes are not faded-in (just taking a guess, I might be totally wrong). Could you guys please check this? And I have updated.. not sure if this was there previously.


Thanks for pointing that out - I have added this to the list for the next update - there will be an extensive round of individual note levelling for the next update, and we will go through pitch one more time as well.
This update will be in the new year though!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

muk said:


> Can confirm that it is the same for me. I'm on Windows 11, and Cubase 11. The 'velcity only' option does not work on my system. Whether it is toggled on or off, the modwheel always sets the top of the range. I hope this can be fixed in a future update.


We have replicated this and are fixing it - apologies, should have tested that feature more, it was put in at the last moment!


----------



## muk

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We have replicated this and are fixing it - apologies, should have tested that feature more, it was put in at the last moment!


No need to apologize. You are all doing an amazing job! Your openness and responsiveness to feedback is unparalleled. And the library and Sonokinetic's dedication to make it even better through added features and bugfixes is outstanding. Thank you for that!


----------



## Nando Florestan

@Sonokinetic BV 

While testing 1.2 cellos I found these:

1. The Kontakt Panic button "!" is resetting patch volumes to 0. Since this doesn't happen with other libraries, I suppose your script is setting the volume at startup. You can't do that 

2. I can hear a few clicks and pops in the release stage of middle C (and a semitone below it) in expressive sustains, divisi B, if the mod wheel is just below 64. Same thing happens in the lowest G of the cellos, but in divisi A.


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Nando Florestan said:


> @Sonokinetic BV
> 
> While testing 1.2 cellos I found these:
> 
> 1. The Kontakt Panic button "!" is resetting patch volumes to 0. Since this doesn't happen with other libraries, I suppose your script is setting the volume at startup. You can't do that


it is - why not?


Nando Florestan said:


> 2. I can hear a few clicks and pops in the release stage of middle C (and a semitone below it) in expressive sustains, divisi B, if the mod wheel is just below 64. Same thing happens in the lowest G of the cellos, but in divisi A.


thanks for reporting I logged these and will have a look - the first one is VI I I assume?


----------



## Nando Florestan

Both issues were found in the cellos, @Sonokinetic BV 

The reason you should not set the patch volume is that it is traditionally used for mixing. It also responds to CC7. For example, I could have in the same Kontakt instance cello patches from many libraries and the main way to balance their loudness would be patch volume. I suppose your question "why not?" was serious?


----------



## Gamin Ricks

Sonokinetic BV said:


> this has many ramifications and is something for the next major update - possibly at the same time we port the woodwinds to this script. It requires a great deal of script and UI changes
> 
> we will do snapshots - we had already started making those but didn't finish them in time
> 
> this is relatively easy to do - I think we'll add a velocity sensitive keyswitch too...the top C is still available - but will not be in this update


Thank you for the response looking forward to it 
@Sonokinetic BV Any reason why the default tune is at 442? While generally all libraries follow a 440? Should we modify it everytime? I'm not sure my understanding might be incorrect. Please clarify this for me.
Also Happy Christmas 🤶 guys! 🥂🎄


----------



## jbuhler

Gamin Ricks said:


> Thank you for the response looking forward to it
> @Sonokinetic BV Any reason why the default tune is at 442? While generally all libraries follow a 440? Should we modify it everytime? I'm not sure my understanding might be incorrect. Please clarify this for me.
> Also Happy Christmas 🤶 guys! 🥂🎄


I’m pretty sure Sonokinetic usually records at 442. Most of their libraries ship at 440 (so tune is set to -0.06), you can set the instrument to 440 and save it then it will open at 440.


----------



## markleake

Hi @Sonokinetic BV. I'm absolutely loving this string library... it is beautiful, makes great results, and I really do like the workflow with the divisi. Thanks for keeping on going despite us complaining about the delays, to make such a wonderful string library. 

I want to add my +1 to a comment from earlier, not sure who suggested it now though...

I want to use sections as "divisi" but with the full strings playing each part, not with the actual divisi recorded sections split properly. i.e. the full section playing multiple parts. It gives a thicker sound to the parts, something that I would prefer sometimes. It would be good to have an option on the front page that chains the divisi parts together, like a lock or chain icon that sits between the big AB section names.

Also, I found a bug. Bear with me, is a bit of a long explanation for this scenario, but something I think could be fairly common to encounter. Note that I only tested this in the release version, I haven't updated the Kontakt instruments yet.

Choose expressive or straight long articulation
Turn off legato (also I had set it to slurred legato, not sure if this matters as legato is off)
Play a tri-chord
Move the top note of the chord up a semitone or tone
Stop playing the bottom 2 notes of the chord, leaving only the top note playing
Play the bottom 2 notes of the chord again
The top note stops playing, even though it's still held down
Sometimes it stops playing at step #6 also depending how I'm moving the chord around.

If you play around a bit, it's easy enough to replicate, and this is a fairly common use case for me when I'm using longs like this. I can get the same issue happening with the longs on both the V1 and V2 patches. Didn't try the other patches.

Edit: Confirmed this bug happens in v1.2 also. Also found another bug, but will email support.


----------



## markleake

Does anyone know if there is a way to turn off the stereo widening, and whatever filter is being used on the punchy/mellow slider thingy?

The stereo widening I find does some strange things to the sound with some of the mics, but I can't see a way of turning it off in the UI. All I can do is reduce the wideness effect, but I don't know what setting is the natural setting.

I only have free version of Kontakt 6, so can't go in and edit the instrument.


----------



## Mistro

I really like the sound of this library. How do we deal with the low volume? I'm hesitatnt to just crank up the volume on my DAW mixing channel and just wondering if there's another way to handle this.


----------



## Maddy

Mistro said:


> I really like the sound of this library. How do we deal with the low volume? I'm hesitatnt to just crank up the volume on my DAW mixing channel and just wondering if there's another way to handle this.


In case of Cubase you can increase the volume in the pre-gain by "q-link"-ing all the channels you want to increase the volume for.
But I agree the tools we use should help us concentrate on the composition. I'm sure Sonokinetic understands that very well.

@Sonokinetic BV could you please increase the volume to a standard level as with other sample libraries and also tune them in a way that all sample libraries are in tune I mean the 440Hz instead of 442Hz. 
Thank you! And Happy New year 🎉


----------



## muk

markleake said:


> Does anyone know if there is a way to turn off the stereo widening, and whatever filter is being used on the punchy/mellow slider thingy?



The easiest way to turn off the stereo widening is this:






Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings Released!


but will probably do that in an update since we don't want to break people's downloads. So, if I use the Sonokinetic Downloads I will have a missing file, how do I get the missing file ? If I wait for the update (I'm guessing the next Library Update), I can download it via Sonokinetic without...




vi-control.net





As you can't use the edit menu in Kontakt, the workaround for the stereo widening is this:






Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings Released!


The mod wheel sets the top level for shorts, and then the velocity does all dynamics within that range if that makes sense. Not really, no. Would it be possible, please, dear Sonokinetic BV, to have the short articulations respond more to velocity than they do at the moment. Or, better still...




vi-control.net





The tone filter/eq is set to none/neutral out of the box, if I am not mistaken. Just leave that slider in the middle, and no processing should be applied.


----------



## markleake

muk said:


> The easiest way to turn off the stereo widening is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings Released!
> 
> 
> but will probably do that in an update since we don't want to break people's downloads. So, if I use the Sonokinetic Downloads I will have a missing file, how do I get the missing file ? If I wait for the update (I'm guessing the next Library Update), I can download it via Sonokinetic without...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can't use the edit menu in Kontakt, the workaround for the stereo widening is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings Released!
> 
> 
> The mod wheel sets the top level for shorts, and then the velocity does all dynamics within that range if that makes sense. Not really, no. Would it be possible, please, dear Sonokinetic BV, to have the short articulations respond more to velocity than they do at the moment. Or, better still...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tone filter/eq is set to none/neutral out of the box, if I am not mistaken. Just leave that slider in the middle, and no processing should be applied.


Awesome, thanks muk! I do remember reading that post by @ricoderks a while ago, but didn't take it in at the time, as I hadn't needed that info then. Is very useful, I'll give it a go.

I hope SK can make these instrument settings a bit easier to understand and set in the interface. Would also be good if the defaults were set a bit better. I find some of the wide stereo settings are too much. I prefer to start with a good natural setting as much as possible, then tweak.


----------



## muk

markleake said:


> I hope SK can make these instrument settings a bit easier to understand and set in the interface. Would also be good if the defaults were set a bit better. I find some of the wide stereo settings are too much. I prefer to start with a good natural setting as much as possible, then tweak



Agreed. It would be preferable if the signal out of the box was without stereo widening and addition eq/filter effects. Or at least it would be good to have a clearly visible option to turn these off without going under the hood. If I am not mistaken Sonokinetic already mentioned somewhere that they are thinking about it for an update. Not totally sure about it though, so it might not hurt to ask.


----------



## Mistro

Is there an ETA for the next update?


----------



## markleake

muk said:


> Agreed. It would be preferable if the signal out of the box was without stereo widening and addition eq/filter effects. Or at least it would be good to have a clearly visible option to turn these off without going under the hood. If I am not mistaken Sonokinetic already mentioned somewhere that they are thinking about it for an update. Not totally sure about it though, so it might not hurt to ask.


Yes. I've already put in a few requests and bug notifications. So I may be pushing my luck  ... but @Sonokinetic BV is this also on the enhancements list?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

markleake said:


> Yes. I've already put in a few requests and bug notifications. So I may be pushing my luck  ... but @Sonokinetic BV is this also on the enhancements list?


Hey guys sorry for the radio silence, was having my annual end-of-year crash 
We’ll be back soon with the next update. 
I will look into the volume thing.
Also, if you now command-click the mix x-y panel it should set all mics to no widening.


----------



## muk

@Sonokinetic BV after working with the library for some time I can say that I really enjoy it and love working with it. These are quality recordings that sound lovely, and presented in a well thought-through software package.

Maybe it's too soon after relase to fantasize about the future already. But I just had the idea that it would be fantastic, at one point in the future, to have an expansion to this library with additional articulations!

At the moment we have: 

Recorded samples​
sustains

straight
expressive
sul tasto
sul ponticello
harmonics

Shorts

spiccato
staccatissimo
staccato
pizzicato

trem/till

tremolo
tremolo sul ponticello
minor trill
major trill

special

bartok pizzicato
col legno

You can add legato to most of these, including same note legato (aka rebow).


Other articulations created from above samples​Marcatos (if I am not mistaken, the marcatos were created through stacking short articulations with sustains)

dynamics



It would be great to have marcatos, sforzato, and fortepiano as real recorded articulations. And on top of that a few lengths of détachés: détache short, détache medium, détaché long. It would be a very welcome addition to this library, making it even more versatile.

All the bread and butter articulations are there. And you get a lot for a very reasonable price. Yet, it would be awesome to get some of the articulations that are currently created through the engine as real recorded samples. And especially the détachés are important in various styles, yet very few developers provide them. It would make for a fantastic add-on library in my opinion.

Anyway, just an idea for the future. I very much enjoy the library in its current form. That's why I am hoping for even more!


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

The introductory price ends in less than 48 hours


----------



## Remnant

I just finished scoring this, even though it is from an expired scoring competition, but I used SOS a fair amount, as well as some Indie and Sotto (and a bunch of other stuff). The Sordino Strings from SOS are featured heavily in the back part of the film if anyone is interested.


----------



## troubleclef

muk said:


> The easiest way to turn off the stereo widening is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings Released!
> 
> 
> but will probably do that in an update since we don't want to break people's downloads. So, if I use the Sonokinetic Downloads I will have a missing file, how do I get the missing file ? If I wait for the update (I'm guessing the next Library Update), I can download it via Sonokinetic without...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can't use the edit menu in Kontakt, the workaround for the stereo widening is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings Released!
> 
> 
> The mod wheel sets the top level for shorts, and then the velocity does all dynamics within that range if that makes sense. Not really, no. Would it be possible, please, dear Sonokinetic BV, to have the short articulations respond more to velocity than they do at the moment. Or, better still...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tone filter/eq is set to none/neutral out of the box, if I am not mistaken. Just leave that slider in the middle, and no processing should be applied.


Thank you muk! Super helpful


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

Looking forward to the next update for Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings. 

It also looks like you are busy cooking something interesting for us... Smells delicious  I wonder what it is ?




Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Loïc D

@Sonokinetic BV Is there a way to programmatically morph between 2 articulations? 
It seems only possible to morph by shift-clicking a second articulation.
I’d like to take benefit of Logic articulation sets to create my own morphed combinations


----------



## muk

Loïc D said:


> @Sonokinetic BV Is there a way to programmatically morph between 2 articulations?
> It seems only possible to morph by shift-clicking a second articulation.
> I’d like to take benefit of Logic articulation sets to create my own morphed combinations


Press an hold a keyswitch, then press the second keyswitch. Now both are selected and you can morph between them. I don't know wether that helps with Logic.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

I just started using SOS.

For some reason, I can't seem to trigger any portamentos when playing at low velocities, I did set it in the legato settings to around 50 to make sure it gets triggered, but I hear no portamento. Any idea what could be the issue ?

Thanks.

UPDATE : OK, I got this issue resolved, I batch-resaved the library, I got some missing files message during the process, pointed to the library folder, and all went fine after that. I tested the portamentos with a higher value for the legato levels, and I was able to hear the portamento transitions.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

I need some help sorting this out. The Sonokinetic Manager shows I have version 1.2 of the Sonokinetic Orch. Strings installed, but I don't think this is true. I don't think it is the latest version that shows up. 

This is how my settings screen shows up , is this 1.2 or an earlier version ? 

If it's the older version, what's the best way to update to 1.2, the Sonokinetic Manger tells me I have 1.2 installed, but I don't this that's correct.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Aldunate

I bought it at the release but I haven't downloaded it yet.
I'll wait until the next update Native Access.


----------



## amorphosynthesis

1.2 looks like that


----------



## muziksculp

amorphosynthesis said:


> 1.2 looks like that


Yes, I didn't have 1.2 installed, although the Sonokinetic Manager indicated that I had 1.2 , I deleted the library, and re-downloaded a fresh version, and it know shows like the pic you posted, with the additional parameter controls, I also think the Portamento in 1.2 sounds better than the older version I had installed. 

Thanks.


----------



## Remnant

muziksculp said:


> Yes, I didn't have 1.2 installed, although the Sonokinetic Manager indicated that I had 1.2 , I deleted the library, and re-downloaded a fresh version, and it know shows like the pic you posted, with the additional parameter controls, I also think the Portamento in 1.2 sounds better than the older version I had installed.
> 
> Thanks.


I’m having this exact problem. Says 1.2 is installed but it isn’t. Interestingly, it worked fine on the Sordino library. I really do not want to delete and reinstall because my hard drives are maxed. I’ll send SK a ticket.


----------



## muziksculp

Remnant said:


> I’m having this exact problem. Says 1.2 is installed but it isn’t. Interestingly, it worked fine on the Sordino library. I really do not want to delete and reinstall because my hard drives are maxed. I’ll send SK a ticket.


Hopefully they help you get it updated to 1.2 without having to re-download the whole library again. 

You made me check my Sonokinetic Sordino Strings version. The Sonokinetic Manager shows ver 1.1 is installed of the Sordino Strings. Here is how the settings look, I'm guessing that ver 1.1 is the latest version of the Sordino Strings, or is there a 1.2 version for it as well ?


----------



## muziksculp

Looks like ver 1.1 is the latest version for the Sonokinetic Sordino Strings


----------



## Marko Cifer

Not sure on versioning for this one, but I do have the additional options here as well, and I remember downloading a manual update...






edit: Yup, I have two instrument .rar files in my archive, the original release one and an updated one.


----------



## muziksculp

Marko Cifer said:


> Not sure on versioning for this one, but I do have the additional options here as well, and I remember downloading a manual update...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: Yup, I have two instrument .rar files in my archive, the original release one and an updated one.


Thanks for the feedback.

So, lt looks like I have the same issue with the Sordino Library. It's not the latest version on my System.

I guess since the Sonokinetic Manager is not showing any updates available, I will have to just delete my version, and re-download the entire library again. Or is there a better way to update it ?


----------



## Remnant

1.1 is the current Sordino version, but yes, it looks like yours is actually not updated like the other. I’ll let you know if I hear back, but I suspect deleting and reinstalling might be the answer I get. I might just wait it out for the next update.


----------



## muziksculp

Remnant said:


> 1.1 is the current Sordino version, but yes, it looks like yours is actually not updated like the other. I’ll let you know if I hear back, but I suspect deleting and reinstalling might be the answer I get. I might just wait it out for the next update.


I'm re-downloading the full Sordino Strings library via the Sonokinetic Manger, but the download is currently stalled at %73.5 of the download. I tried to pause and re-download it, but that didn't work, not sure if I should wait, or ... ? What a waste of time dealing with so/so downloaders.


----------



## jadedsean

muziksculp said:


> I'm re-downloading the full Sordino Strings library via the Sonokinetic Manger, but the download is currently stalled at %73.5 of the download. I tried to pause and re-download it, but that didn't work, not sure if I should wait, or ... ? What a waste of time dealing with so/so downloaders.


I had the same issue with the orchestral strings and re-download them but they also halted at the unpacking point and they won’t complete the unpacking process, while I think Sonokinetic where brilliant with resolving issues when releasing this library they have for some reason gone radio silent which is not helpful at all. Truthfully, it’s really disappointing.


----------



## muziksculp

jadedsean said:


> I had the same issue with the orchestral strings and re-download them but they also halted at the unpacking point and they won’t complete the unpacking process, while I think Sonokinetic where brilliant with resolving issues when releasing this library they have for some reason gone radio silent which is not helpful at all. Truthfully, it’s really disappointing.


Hi @jadedsean ,

Both of my Sonokinetic Orch. Strings, and the Sordino Strings Libraries were not the latest versions, I decided to re-download the full libraries for both of them, and deleted the older versions that were installed. The downloader was a bit of a pain to work with due to the halting issues, but after a bit of a bumpy experience, I got both of them installed successfully. I think it would be helpful if Sonokinetic improves/fixes the halting issues of their Downloader, or makes sure that the updating process of the downloader does the job properly, for some reason, I thought it installed the latest version, but that wasn't the case when I just had it install the updates. 

I'm guessing they are busy developing a new Strings library, or an addition to SOS. and are super busy to respond to VI-C forum posts, you might want to reach them via their support email, instead of the forum. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Hi Folks,

Just seen this post. For support issues please create a support ticket at support.sonokinetic.net. We try and monitor the forum, but it is possible to miss posts and that wont happen with a support ticket

We are working on an update to the Sonokinetic Manager currently, so hopefully this will resolve the stalling issue. It's also important to remember that you need 2 times the size of the library in available disc space or the download/extract will fail


----------



## muziksculp

Sonokinetic BV said:


> We are working on an update to the Sonokinetic Manager currently, so hopefully this will resolve the stalling issue.


Hi @Sonokinetic BV ,

Thank You for your dedication to improving your Sonokinetic Manager. That is Very Appreciated. 

I'm also very excited about the upcoming Sonokinetic Strings Update, and maybe some new Surprise you have for us ? 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## [email protected]

@Sonokinetic BV When I downloaded the library for the first time I had to interrupt the installation process since it took way longer than expected and I needed to leave and couldn't let my computer running for several days. I then tried to re-doanload it but the download manager doesn't seem to start the installation but just sits there after the finished download. Should I install it now over Native Access?


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I posted this issue in the forum's 'Sample Talk' section, but I thought I should post it here to get the attention of other Sonokinetic Strings users, and maybe of @Sonokinetic BV .

I was going through Sonokinetic's Orchestral Strings library Mix presets, and came across some issues, can someone who has this library please test it to confirm these issues.

*Issue #1 *
Basically using the *Staccato Articulation* in the *Vlns 2 Mix Preset*, the *(Divisi A)* section has no audio, so maybe it's missing the samples ? or ... ? although I get no error message that samples are missing. The (Divisi B) section has audio. so when using Auto Divisi you only hear (Divisi B) playing, and not (Divisi A)

Any feedback, or confirmation of this issue would be appreciated, I will be reporting it to Sonokinetic Support if it is confirmed.

*Issue #2*
One more issue I should add to the above, when playing the *Marcato articulations*, especially the espressivo, and/or Straight Marcato articulations, and having more than one mic option enabled, I experience some *clicks/pops* when I play a note while moving the Mod-Wheel (CC#1).

I'm not sure if this is something other users are experiencing with this library. If I move the Mod-Wheel during the sustained portion of the note, I don't get any clicks/pops, but when I have a changing value for CC1 and play a marc. note the pops/clicks happen. So, I basically avoid changing CC1 values during the note-On midi event.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## muk

Can't help you with your question @muziksculp, but I have one myself. @Sonokinetic BV, is it possible to route mics to different outputs in Kontakt? I couldn't find anything about it in the manual, and didn't find a solution in the interface either. Would appreciate some help on this.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I posted this issue in the forum's 'Sample Talk' section, but I thought I should post it here to get the attention of other Sonokinetic Strings users, and maybe of @Sonokinetic BV .
> 
> I was going through Sonokinetic's Orchestral Strings library Mix presets, and came across some issues, can someone who has this library please test it to confirm these issues.
> 
> *Issue #1 *
> Basically using the *Staccato Articulation* in the *Vlns 2 Mix Preset*, the *(Divisi A)* section has no audio, so maybe it's missing the samples ? or ... ? although I get no error message that samples are missing. The (Divisi B) section has audio. so when using Auto Divisi you only hear (Divisi B) playing, and not (Divisi A)
> 
> Any feedback, or confirmation of this issue would be appreciated, I will be reporting it to Sonokinetic Support if it is confirmed.
> 
> *Issue #2*
> One more issue I should add to the above, when playing the *Marcato articulations*, especially the espressivo, and/or Straight Marcato articulations, and having more than one mic option enabled, I experience some *clicks/pops* when I play a note while moving the Mod-Wheel (CC#1).
> 
> I'm not sure if this is something other users are experiencing with this library. If I move the Mod-Wheel during the sustained portion of the note, I don't get any clicks/pops, but when I have a changing value for CC1 and play a marc. note the pops/clicks happen. So, I basically avoid changing CC1 values during the note-On midi event.
> 
> Thanks,
> Muziksculp


I can confirm the first issue but not the second.


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> I can confirm the first issue but not the second.


Hi @jbuhler ,

OK, Thanks for the feedback. I will report Issue #1 to Sonokinetic Support. 

Regarding Issue #2, just in case this might be related to my Kontakt settings. What are the settings you have for :

* Engine : CPU Overload Protection 

Mine has it set to 'Disabled' 

* Memory : Instrument Preload Buffer Size

Mine has it set to 18.00 KB


----------



## muziksculp

muk said:


> Can't help you with your question @muziksculp,


Does this mean you are not experiencing Issue #1 ? or you just can't test it ?


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Hi @jbuhler ,
> 
> OK, Thanks for the feedback. I will report Issue #1 to Sonokinetic Support.
> 
> Regarding Issue #2, just in case this might be related to my Kontakt settings. What are the settings you have for :
> 
> * Engine : CPU Overload Protection
> 
> Mine has it set to 'Disabled'
> 
> * Memory : Instrument Preload Buffer Size
> 
> Mine has it set to 18.00 KB


I'm using the same settings as you are.


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> I'm using the same settings as you are.


OK, Thanks. 

So, it's not the Kontakt settings that is causing these pops-n-clicks I'm experiencing when using the Marcato articulations, and moving the Mod wheel CC1 during the Note-On events. Not sure what could be causing this issue. I will let Sonokinetic Support know about it, and see what they recommend to fix it.


----------



## Frederick

muk said:


> Can't help you with your question @muziksculp, but I have one myself. @Sonokinetic BV, is it possible to route mics to different outputs in Kontakt? I couldn't find anything about it in the manual, and didn't find a solution in the interface either. Would appreciate some help on this.


I have 4 Kontakt instances in the same track -all listening to the same MIDI channel. Each instance has a different mic position loaded and a different stereo output.


----------



## muk

Frederick said:


> I have 4 Kontakt instances in the same track -all listening to the same MIDI channel. Each instance has a different mic position loaded and a different stereo output.


Thanks for the tip. That's a workaround I'll use for now. It's clumsy though. Would be good if this feature could be implemented in an update. It's pretty basic functionality.


----------



## river angler

Nicely recorded library but: Yawn!...yet again!... No option to use key velocity to control dynamics on sustains.


----------



## muziksculp

river angler said:


> Nicely recorded library but: Yawn!...yet again!... No option to use key velocity to control dynamics on sustains.


How would that be helpful ? I don't understand how Key Velocity can be used to Control Dynamics on Sustained sounds ?

Key Velocity is set with a MIDI-Note-ON Event, and is set to a specific value range (0 - 127), based on the velocity you play a note, it is not meant to continuously control the dynamics of a sustained midi instrument. for that we need Cont. Controllers. i.e. CC 01, CC 11, .etc.

Maybe I'm missing your point, if so, maybe you can clarify what you are trying to describe.

Thanks.


----------



## mussnig

muziksculp said:


> How would that be helpful ? I don't understand how Key Velocity can be used to Control Dynamics on Sustained sounds ?
> 
> Key Velocity is set with a MIDI-Note-ON Event, and is set to a specific value range (0 - 127), based on the velocity you play a note, it is not meant to continuously control the dynamics of a sustained midi instrument. for that we need Cont. Controllers. i.e. CC 01, CC 11, .etc.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing your point, if so, maybe you can clarify what you are trying to describe.
> 
> Thanks.


As far as I understand, some people prefer velocity controlled sustains so that they can simply play a patch with both hands on the keyboard (and not one hand on a fader) or also to have different dynamics for different notes when playing a chord.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I came another bug in this library, this one in the Basses.

Both the mix, and multi mic versions of the Basses when playing the note E1 and E1# of the Pizz. articulation at velocities between 70 and 80. I get clicks sounding, and this warning message :






Can someone that has this library please confirm this so I can report it to Sonokinetic Support.

I Reported this issue to Sonokinetic Support.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Trash Panda

Just report it to Support anyways. There is no downside to doing so if you have the ability to provide repro steps.


----------



## muziksculp

Trash Panda said:


> Just report it to Support anyways. There is no downside to doing so if you have the ability to provide repro steps.


I did.


----------



## muziksculp

So far three issues reported to Sonokinetic Support.

No reply from them yet. Except a confirmation they received my support tickets.


----------



## muziksculp

Diving deeper into Sonokinetic Orch. Strings, I'm falling in love with the sound of this library, I really wish Sonokinetic will fix some of the irritating bugs it has.

Regarding the Marcato patches producing pops-n-clicks when moving CC #1 (Dynamics), I decided to bump my audio interface buffer from 512 (my normal setting), to 1024, and that helped a bit, but still got the pops-n-clicks when playing faster passages, and moving the mod-wheel when notes on messages were triggered. I then bumped my RAM buffer to 2048 samples, and that seems to work the best, but with the unwelcomed added latency. So, my guess is it has something to do with a script they are using for this articulation. Especially the longer Marcato articulations (Expressive. and straight).

I'm also surprised that not much feedback, and praise has been posted about this library. I really think it's one of the best sounding strings libraries I have used, and I have many String libraries to choose from, but this one really stands out !

If you are using this library, please post some feedback here, I would love to read more user feedback, and maybe some audio clips. 

Thanks.


----------



## Remnant

muziksculp said:


> Diving deeper into Sonokinetic Orch. Strings, I'm falling in love with the sound of this library, I really wish Sonokinetic will fix some of the irritating bugs it has.
> 
> Regarding the Marcato patches producing pops-n-clicks when moving CC #1 (Dynamics), I decided to bump my audio interface buffer from 512 (my normal setting), to 1024, and that helped a bit, but still got the pops-n-clicks when playing faster passages, and moving the mod-wheel when notes on messages were triggered. I then bumped my RAM buffer to 2048 samples, and that seems to work the best, but with the unwelcomed added latency. So, my guess is it has something to do with a script they are using for this articulation. Especially the longer Marcato articulations (Expressive. and straight).
> 
> I'm also surprised that not much feedback, and praise has been posted about this library. I really think it's one of the best sounding strings libraries I have used, and I have many String libraries to choose from, but this one really stands out !
> 
> If you are using this library, please post some feedback here, I would love to read more user feedback, and maybe some audio clips.
> 
> Thanks.


I bought this library at launch and other than niche and textural stuff, it is the only bread and butter type library that I use now. I really like the sort of concert sound of the hall, the auto divisi, the not too exaggerated legato, the ability to go as small as 23 players and as high as 56, and the different mic options without an amount that I would find overwhelming. There are some kinks here and there I hope Sonokinetic handles in an update (sometimes the legato transitions need some tinkering or seem to result in a sustain that doesn’t end), but I have found not too cumbersome. Although they are not completely exposed in these, here are a few pieces I did recently where SOS are the only strings other than a few textural solo violin/cello stuff. I’m not the greatest mixer, and my string arrangements can stray toward too pad-like, but maybe they give you a little more insight into them.


----------



## river angler

muziksculp said:


> How would that be helpful ? I don't understand how Key Velocity can be used to Control Dynamics on Sustained sounds ?
> 
> Key Velocity is set with a MIDI-Note-ON Event, and is set to a specific value range (0 - 127), based on the velocity you play a note, it is not meant to continuously control the dynamics of a sustained midi instrument. for that we need Cont. Controllers. i.e. CC 01, CC 11, .etc.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing your point, if so, maybe you can clarify what you are trying to describe.
> 
> Thanks.


Sure!...

The point is CC should only be used for crescendo/decrescendo not initial dynamics! It's why I use predominantly Chris Hein and just a few select instrument from Orchestral Tools for all my orchestral instruments. In fact with Chris Hein you have the best of both where you can naturally strike the keys as hard or soft as you like to trigger the starting dynamic with key velocity just as a real violin player for example strikes the initial start of any note with his bow and then from that initially struck/bowed dynamic one can then swell/de-swell the sustained note. I find it particularly frustrating and completely alien to have to move a continuous controller into the correct position to initiate the opening dynamic for sustains when I'm spontaneously composing. Developers have completely lost sight of the fact that most of the time strings for example are merely struck harder or softer between each sections of notes especially in passages of music where there wouldn't be time to add crescendo/decrescendo!- the same for solo strings. Imagine having to constantly have to move a modwheel to play piano chords dynamically instead of being able to simply strike the keyboard harder or softer!

I have just finished the mock up of a symphony I have written in 3 movements which has dynamics from pianissimo to fff! there are only two moments throughout the whole 50 minutes of music where I have needed to crescendo !

No doubt most developers have fallen into this habit of neglecting velocity control of initial dynamics as their instruments are mainly marketed to film hybrid scoring rather than traditional orchestral.
They overlook the fact that CC is a monophonic control- it effects every note with the same value dynamic hence the initial dynamic of each note within a cluster of notes will have exactly the same initial dynamic which is not what happens in a real string section! With velocity each note is given a separate dynamic and then if CC is applied each note moves from that initial dynamic giving a much more realistic performance. Velocity is fundamental as it opens any played in performance as far as clusters of notes are concerned to react polyphonically regarding their dynamics. For solo instruments having control of the initial dynamic via key velocity is also far more natural when performing... again with Chris Hein one can use CC as well within the same performance should one wish to add crescendo/decrescendo in the same recording pass!


----------



## river angler

mussnig said:


> As far as I understand, some people prefer velocity controlled sustains so that they can simply play a patch with both hands on the keyboard (and not one hand on a fader) or also to have different dynamics for different notes when playing a chord.


It's not for being able to use both hands -one could actually use a foot pedal simultaneously... but you are correct regarding separate dynamics for each note within a cluster/chord!... (please read my other response above for full explanation!)


----------



## muziksculp

Remnant said:


> I bought this library at launch and other than niche and textural stuff, it is the only bread and butter type library that I use now. I really like the sort of concert sound of the hall, the auto divisi, the not too exaggerated legato, the ability to go as small as 23 players and as high as 56, and the different mic options without an amount that I would find overwhelming. There are some kinks here and there I hope Sonokinetic handles in an update (sometimes the legato transitions need some tinkering or seem to result in a sustain that doesn’t end), but I have found not too cumbersome. Although they are not completely exposed in these, here are a few pieces I did recently where SOS are the only strings other than a few textural solo violin/cello stuff. I’m not the greatest mixer, and my string arrangements can stray toward too pad-like, but maybe they give you a little more insight into them.



Hi @Remnant ,

Thank You Very Much for your feedback, and music videos which showcase SOS. I enjoyed all the music and videos. 

Oh.. I hope Sonokinetic will fix the issues you, and I have encountered when using this library, I really love the way it sounds, I also have their Sordino Strings Library, which you might enjoy as well to add the darker tone of the Sordino Strings to your music. 

The shorts, and marcato articulations are wonderful as well. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Remnant

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Remnant ,
> 
> Thank You Very Much for your feedback, and music videos which showcase SOS. I enjoyed all the music and videos.
> 
> Oh.. I hope Sonokinetic will fix the issues you, and I have encountered when using this library, I really love the way it sounds, I also have their Sordino Strings Library, which you might enjoy as well to add the darker tone of the Sordino Strings to your music.
> 
> The shorts, and marcato articulations are wonderful as well.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


Thanks. I do have the Sordinos and think they are great. Really warm
Sound. I am still hoping Sonokinetic will not only fix the bugs, but expand the library somehow. I would pay extra if they made an ensemble patch out of these samples.


----------



## CT

river angler said:


> I have just finished the mock up of a symphony I have written in 3 movements which has dynamics from pianissimo to fff! there are only two moments throughout the whole 50 minutes of music where I have needed to crescendo !


...but at any point in those 50 minutes do you need to sculpt individual notes dynamically on a smaller scale than ppp to fff, or taper off the ends of phrases, or indeed swell into them?

Are you perhaps trying to perform multiple parts simultaneously when you'd be better served by addressing them one at a time? I can't help but feel you must be misunderstanding something about how this all works, since using a continuous control for dynamics is not the norm just because it somehow applies only to "film hybrid scoring." It is the norm because it represents the constantly changing expressive parameters of a real instrumental performance. And there are many libraries that _do_ utilize velocity to control an independent attack strength parameter.

There is a huge amount of virtual orchestral music of all stripes that has been rendered highly successfully with this approach. I think it might be harder to count the examples that use the approach you describe, and I'd be quite curious to hear it in action.

Ok also... even if you use velocity to set initial dynamics, if you then want to use a CC for "crescendo/decrescendo," you'll need to make sure that CC is set to the corresponding dynamic selected by velocity before you move it, otherwise you'll get a nasty jump when you move the CC and it suddenly snaps the dynamics away from where they were set at note-on... so how is this any different than constantly riding a CC to ensure dynamics always are where you want them to be? Or are you suggesting the CC simply control a separate expression "volume only" control? Then you're just automating the volume of whatever dynamic sample you get from velocity, which is no good. Am I completely misunderstanding this/going insane?! Seriously I've seen you making this complaint for years and I still can not figure it out.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Remnant said:


> I do have the Sordinos and think they are great.


I got the Sordinos when they generously released them as a limited freebie. I must admit, they are very underwhelming and difficult to program. Just my opinion, of course.


----------



## river angler

Michaelt said:


> ...but at any point in those 50 minutes do you need to sculpt individual notes dynamically on a smaller scale than ppp to fff, or taper off the ends of phrases, or indeed swell into them?...


Not that often to be fair- I do occasionally tail off the volume of sustains.


Michaelt said:


> Are you perhaps trying to perform multiple parts simultaneously when you'd be better served by addressing them one at a time?


No! I play in each part separately and find adjusting velocities when necessary in the piano roll sufficient to achieve very realistic results.


Michaelt said:


> I can't help but feel you must be misunderstanding something about how this all works, since using a continuous control for dynamics is not the norm just because it somehow applies only to "film hybrid scoring." It is the norm because it represents the constantly changing expressive parameters of a real instrumental performance.


I totally agree that for timbre or volume crescendo/decrescendo CC is the obviously the only choice by its very nature of continuous control but it's specifically the starting timbre dynamic before I strike the keys that doesn't make any sense to me to have to have to ride the modwheel for when the natural way is to strike the keys harder or softer to trigger the required response from the instrument.


Michaelt said:


> And there are many libraries that _do_ utilize velocity to control an independent attack strength parameter.


You say "attack strength" which could be construed as a little confusing here regarding our discussion! If you are referring to the actually speed at which the instrument initially responds: that's a different thing of course- as I'm sure you are aware some of OT's samples for example have this performance feature built in where striking a harder velocity does indeed give the instrument a faster attack. However I am strictly referring to just the initial level of the timbre dynamic not the envelope.


Michaelt said:


> There is a huge amount of virtual orchestral music of all stripes that has been rendered highly successfully with this approach.


It depends on the context of the composition of course but generally I find most of the time when composing/playing in sustain parts the initial velocity is key to getting the fundamental vibe of the pieces I write. One thing I do tend to do particularly within slower tempo pieces is to increase the release time of for example Orchestral Tools flautando sample in Berlin Orchestra Inspire II. Actually I mute the original release samples and increase the release time of the envelope mainly because I wish to use my own reverb/ambience to blend with the rest of the orchestral pallet.
I didn't mean to sound derogatory when I mentioned hybrid film orchestral- I compose hybrid myself too! It's just that the use of CC to control dynamics generally in the last two decades has goaded a style of string arrangement that sounds a little artificial to my ears at times. I just think that too many very good sample developers out there for whatever reason seem to have dropped velocity control of initial dynamics which is a pity for the reasons I mention.





Michaelt said:


> Ok also... even if you use velocity to set initial dynamics, if you then want to use a CC for "crescendo/decrescendo," you'll need to make sure that CC is set to the corresponding dynamic selected by velocity before you move it, otherwise you'll get a nasty jump when you move the CC and it suddenly snaps the dynamics away from where they were set at note-on... so how is this any different than constantly riding a CC to ensure dynamics always are where you want them to be?


Not so with Chris Hein! The CC intelligently picks up from the initial key velocity struck!


Michaelt said:


> Or are you suggesting the CC simply control a separate expression "volume only" control?





Michaelt said:


> Then you're just automating the volume of whatever dynamic sample you get from velocity, which is no good.


No I am referring to timbre dynamics and most of the samples I use do change in volume dynamic proportionally at the same time. I have yet to find I need to be able to adjust the relative response between volume dynamics and timbre dynamics in either OT or Chris Hein. Regarding overall volume riding that's usually at the mixing stage and because of the way I spontaneously compose using my keyboard touch there is normally not much adjustment needed in this dpt as I have already captured the performance I need. There are of course very specific times when a crescendo/decrescendo is needed or notes/articulations need readjusting from an arrangement point of view and volume levels of certain notes may need taming slightly at the mixing stage. However generally I find the overwhelming majority of sample timbre and volume dynamics is best served out through key velocity.


Michaelt said:


> Am I completely misunderstanding this/going insane?! Seriously I've seen you making this complaint for years and I still can not figure it out.


I think maybe a lot of the way I compose, as with any individual composer who has his/her ways of working, lends itself to being able to feel the piece develop with the touch of my hands as I play in the parts rather than the limited monophonic and IMO sterile modwheel/CC. Again bare in mind I am referring to initial dynamics: my point is that I think the importance of key velocity control of initial timbre dynamics has got lost in recent times. However I would be intrigued to hear about the libraries you know that do give one the choice or better still a combo of both CC and key velocity as in Chris Hein. For me Chris Hein along with his great Note Head feature offers an inspiring playability I have yet to see bettered by any other developer and again I think Chris's Note head feature emphasises the importance of key velocity even more!

If you are intrigued to hear examples of key velocity control of timbre dynamics bar some swelling at the very beginning and end of my concerto "Irresistible" for alto sax and cello pretty much all the sustained samples within every piece on my showreel website (link in my "about" profile page) was triggered only by key velocity.


----------



## CT

Yeah, I did listen to some things on your site. I can't say that I think the results of this method are at all successful, but you must do what you feel is right, of course.


----------



## muziksculp

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I got the Sordinos when they generously released them as a limited freebie. I must admit, they are very underwhelming and difficult to program. Just my opinion, of course.


Can you pinpoint what you feel makes them underwhelming and difficult to program ? 

You dislike their timbre ? or the way they behave when you play them, or ... ?


----------



## river angler

Michaelt said:


> Yeah, I did listen to some things on your site. I can't say that I think the results of this method are at all successful, but you must do what you feel is right, of course.


I'm not sure how you envisage a more modwheel compiled version of my compositions to sound more "successful" (not quite sure what you mean by "successful"..?) in the context of the compositions themselves. 

As you say we all work in ways we are comfortable with. 

I do think we are talking cross purposes here as my main reason for using key velocity is when on most occasions one is playing in fairly long passages of changing mid paced clusters/chords of sustained strings horns/woodwinds etc where the starter dynamics of every chord struck is all that's needed to guide the theme along as the passage of music progresses stylistically.


----------



## jbuhler

muziksculp said:


> Can you pinpoint what you feel makes them underwhelming and difficult to program ?
> 
> You dislike their timbre ? or the way they behave when you play them, or ... ?


I know this isn't addressed at me, but I'll take a stab at an answer. I'm not sure I'd say these strings are difficult to program (I have both the full strings and the sordinos), but they behave somewhat differently than my other strings, and I haven't yet found a workflow where everything comes out the way I expect. But I also haven't yet had the time to play with them extensively or to tweak my articulations sets, so it's more than possible the bits I'm having issues with will disappear with use.


----------



## muziksculp

jbuhler said:


> I know this isn't addressed at me, but I'll take a stab at an answer. I'm not sure I'd say these strings are difficult to program (I have both the full strings and the sordinos), but they behave somewhat differently than my other strings, and I haven't yet found a workflow where everything comes out the way I expect. But I also haven't yet had the time to play with them extensively or to tweak my articulations sets, so it's more than possible the bits I'm having issues with will disappear with use.


Thanks for the feedback @jbuhler

I haven't used the sordinos much either, but was a bit surprised by the comments posted by @Jeremy Spencer a few posts above.

I will eventually get to them, and post my own opinion about them.

I also wanted SOS users to know that Sonokinetic Tech Support replied to one of my Support Tickets, and mentioned that they are working on fixes, and will be releasing an update in the coming weeks. So, if other users encounter issues, please report them to Sonokinetic Tech Support, so they can be logged into their list of issues to fix.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

muziksculp said:


> Can you pinpoint what you feel makes them underwhelming and difficult to program ?
> 
> You dislike their timbre ? or the way they behave when you play them, or ... ?


I can't exactly pinpoint the sound itself, but it just doesn't resonate with me, like my other libraries with con sords. Almost too "flat" sounding. As far as programming, I just find the controls fiddly...it may be because I'm not used to the workflow, but just doesn't work for me.

Anyways, just my take on them. Maybe I'll revisit them again down the road.


----------



## muziksculp

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I can't exactly pinpoint the sound itself, but it just doesn't resonate with me, like my other libraries with con sords. Almost too "flat" sounding. As far as programming, I just find the controls fiddly...it may be because I'm not used to the workflow, but just doesn't work for me.
> 
> Anyways, just my take on them. Maybe I'll revisit them again down the road.


Hi @Jeremy Spencer ,

OK. I think I get your point. As I have not used the Sordino Strings yet, I will post my thoughts about it, and see how I get along with it. 

Thanks.


----------



## muziksculp

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I got the Sordinos when they generously released them as a limited freebie. I must admit, they are very underwhelming and difficult to program. Just my opinion, of course.


Hi @Jeremy Spencer ,

I didn't like the way the Vlns 1 Sordinos sounded when I first loaded the preset patch, but using this mic mix, I began liking what I hear. So, you might want to experiment with mixing the mic options. Here is a pic of what I found pleasing to my ears. I agree the preset patch when you first load it sounds strange, and as if there is a flange, or phaser type effect applied to it. Try the mic combo I have in the Pic below, and see if it helps you get a nicer sordino vlns 1 sound. This should help get better results for the other sections as well, just experiment with the mics.

Only Decca Tree, and Stage Wide mics used, as shown below. I think this sounds much better than the stock preset. You can position them more to the left.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Jeremy Spencer ,
> 
> I didn't like the way the Vlns 1 Sordinos sounded when I first loaded the preset patch, but using this mic mix, I began liking what I hear. So, you might want to experiment with mixing the mic options. Here is a pic of what I found pleasing to my ears. I agree the preset patch when you first load it sounds strange, and as if there is a flange, or phaser type effect applied to it. Try the mic combo I have in the Pic below, and see if it helps you get a nicer sordino vlns 1 sound. This should help get better results for the other sections as well, just experiment with the mics.
> 
> Only Decca Tree, and Stage Wide mics used, as shown below. I think this sounds much better than the stock preset. You can position them more to the left.


Cool, I give that a try. Thanks! 

I also find the legato kind of clunky, is yours smooth?


----------



## muziksculp

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Cool, I give that a try. Thanks!
> 
> I also find the legato kind of clunky, is yours smooth?


You're very welcome.

Yes, I agree, the legatos are kind of clunky, I improved them using the Pixelpoet edit, which made the Legato transitions sound much smoother.

I can post an audio of how the vlns 1 sordinos sound with the mic combo, and pixelpoet edit if you feel that would be helpful.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Jeremy Spencer ,
> 
> I didn't like the way the Vlns 1 Sordinos sounded when I first loaded the preset patch, but using this mic mix, I began liking what I hear. So, you might want to experiment with mixing the mic options. Here is a pic of what I found pleasing to my ears. I agree the preset patch when you first load it sounds strange, and as if there is a flange, or phaser type effect applied to it. Try the mic combo I have in the Pic below, and see if it helps you get a nicer sordino vlns 1 sound. This should help get better results for the other sections as well, just experiment with the mics.
> 
> Only Decca Tree, and Stage Wide mics used, as shown below. I think this sounds much better than the stock preset. You can position them more to the left.


Gave this a whirl, definitely some improvement. Are your Violins 1 samples quite noisy when playing legatos in the C5 to C6 range?


----------



## muziksculp

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Gave this a whirl, definitely some improvement. Are your Violins 1 samples quite noisy when playing legatos in the C5 to C6 range?


Good to hear that. 

Yes, the Violins are quite noisy in that range, some EQing should help tame those highs, they sound like the players put lots of Rosin on their bows.


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## Gamin Ricks

Hey Guys,

Is this product considered finished? No more updates? I don't see any posts or updates from Sonokinetic in the last 4 months for the library?

Personally I feel the product is far from finished and even a simple control like the legato switch away within the nested layouts instead of primary page is one among many factors adding to the difficulty.
1. Legato switch difficult to access should be available on first page
2. No ensemble patch to make initial sketch
3. The individual patches could have been created for use instead of users having to press down alt and turn off other articulations/asking to create our own patches
4. Some notes are noisy and some start at a very high volume making it hard to write legato lines
5. Individual articulation patches (yet to be added) could have a more straightforward UI as the current UI makes it very hard to change basic sound options.. Which are all available when we click the logo while it should be on the first page

I honestly find it very hard to operate. It's like I need to prepare myself for the difficulties before opening the library. Making it one of the least used library of all my purchases :(


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Gamin Ricks said:


> 4. Some notes are noisy and some start at a very high volume making it hard to write legato lines


This particularly true with the Sordino Strings library. The samples are too noisy and the volumes are inconsistent. It needs a lot of work.


----------



## odod

Gamin Ricks said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Is this product considered finished? No more updates? I don't see any posts or updates from Sonokinetic in the last 4 months for the library?
> 
> Personally I feel the product is far from finished and even a simple control like the legato switch away within the nested layouts instead of primary page is one among many factors adding to the difficulty.
> 1. Legato switch difficult to access should be available on first page
> 2. No ensemble patch to make initial sketch
> 3. The individual patches could have been created for use instead of users having to press down alt and turn off other articulations/asking to create our own patches
> 4. Some notes are noisy and some start at a very high volume making it hard to write legato lines
> 5. Individual articulation patches (yet to be added) could have a more straightforward UI as the current UI makes it very hard to change basic sound options.. Which are all available when we click the logo while it should be on the first page
> 
> I honestly find it very hard to operate. It's like I need to prepare myself for the difficulties before opening the library. Making it one of the least used library of all my purchases :(


this is TRUE! and also a bit cpu hog on my side


----------



## muziksculp

I think @Sonokinetic BV mentioned a while ago, that they are working on an update for SOS, but so far this hasn't materialized. I hope the update will fix the listed issues above, and provide more improvements to this library. 

I love the sound of these strings.


----------



## NekujaK

Hey @muziksculp , thanks for all the helpful info, and especially your videos on the PicelPoet trick. Did I see somewhere in another thread that you were planning on making a similar video for Audio Imperia libraries? If so, I'd be very interested. Thanks!


----------



## muziksculp

NekujaK said:


> Hey @muziksculp , thanks for all the helpful info, and especially your videos on the PicelPoet trick. Did I see somewhere in another thread that you were planning on making a similar video for Audio Imperia libraries? If so, I'd be very interested. Thanks!


Hi @NekujaK ,

You're very welcome.

I can make a video for one of the Audio Imperia libraries, i.e. Jaeger Legato strings, or Areia Legato Strings, showing how to perform the PixelPoet edit via a step-by-step process. 

Which one of the above libraries would you like me to use for the video. I'm currently out of town, so I don't have access to my studio, until April 12th when I travel back.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Ciochi

muziksculp said:


> Hi @NekujaK ,
> 
> You're very welcome.
> 
> I can make a video for one of the Audio Imperia libraries, i.e. Jaeger Legato strings, or Areia Legato Strings, showing how to perform the PixelPoet edit via a step-by-step process.
> 
> Which one of the above libraries would you like me to use for the video. I'm currently out of town, so I don't have access to my studio, until April 12th when I travel back.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


Areia+1


----------



## NekujaK

muziksculp said:


> Hi @NekujaK ,
> 
> You're very welcome.
> 
> I can make a video for one of the Audio Imperia libraries, i.e. Jaeger Legato strings, or Areia Legato Strings, showing how to perform the PixelPoet edit via a step-by-step process.
> 
> Which one of the above libraries would you like me to use for the video. I'm currently out of town, so I don't have access to my studio, until April 12th when I travel back.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


Areia would be great, thank you!


----------



## Gamin Ricks

muziksculp said:


> I think @Sonokinetic BV mentioned a while ago, that they are working on an update for SOS, but so far this hasn't materialized. I hope the update will fix the listed issues above, and provide more improvements to this library.
> 
> I love the sound of these strings.


I love the sound too which is why I purchased the library. But these are some of the most important points that make a library usable in the first place. Maybe it's just my personal opinion and also since all other string sample libraries I've used has been very easy to use. I was hoping Sonokinetic would have hit the mark when I heard the sound. And assumed it's going to be one of those libraries that is obviously going to be easy to use considering it's 2022 and there are so many libraries and UI references of other developers and the sound (I believed) was already amazing.

But so far like I mentioned the difficulties in using the library due to the reasons I have mentioned above and sound/noise issues makes this my biggest mistake yet.

I was initially happy that they were actively taking in suggestions and sorting things out on this forum. But now I feel I've been given a half baked product that has no return, and support that's stopped one month after the release of the product.

If I'm proved wrong and the library is fixed and improved I'd be more than happy to apologise and start using this library. But if not I'm sorry to say, my experience with Sonokinetic has been a bitter one.

Apologies if I had crossed the line in anything I've said above. Would be appreciated if taken in a positive way and look to improve. And for other customers like me, I'm sure you understand my frustration. (my 4 months savings went down the drain) :(


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Nekuja , and @Ciochi ,

I posted a step-by-step video showing the PixelPoet edit for AI AREIA Legato Celli. Here is the link to my post on the forum. 

https://vi-control.net/community/th...ns-a-short-video-tutorial.121724/post-5085351

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Gamin Ricks

Hi @Sonokinetic BV, can we hope to hear some updates from you on this library?


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

Hi Everyone,

We are doing the finishing touches on the next update and it will be released very soon. We will be continually updating this library in the future as we have many features that we want to add to it


----------



## Marko Cifer

Speaking of which...








> _FIXED_​
> _The 8. celli mix.nki instrument was missing - added now_
> _Some users did not get the Data folder with their download - it includes finetuning for Legato and individual note tuning settings - it is included in this update_
> _More volume smoothing on individual notes_
> _There was an issue with div A of the Staccato articulation not loading on first load - this has been resolved now_
> _ADDED_​
> _separate control in the 'Play' Options menu for dynamic range/velocity sensitivity for the short articulations_
> _control for Release Sample Volume in the Legato Options menu_
> _menu items to turn the creation of draggable midi off when not needed for runs and phrases mode - it is now off by default_
> _assignable MIDI CC for legato smear and transition level_
> _the Sonokinetic logo button will also open the respective menus in Runs mode now_


----------



## YaniDee

Marko Cifer said:


> Speaking of which...


Where do you find this? My Sonokinetic manager shows Sordino strings as up to date at version 1.1


----------



## NekujaK

YaniDee said:


> Where do you find this? My Sonokinetic manager shows Sordino strings as up to date at version 1.1


I see it in Native Access. Sonokinetic Manager and Native Access have sync issues. NA shows a bunch of Sonokinetic updates available that I updated long ago in SM, but this time, it's the other way around 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Double Helix

Marko Cifer said:


> Speaking of which...


Thanks for the heads-up, @Marko Cifer --Sordinos updated


----------



## Remnant

I am pretty excited about this. I really love the sound of these strings, but I just finished using them on a contest composition piece and was really frustrated by the volume inconsistencies and other issues people have complained about which were real. After the update, it does appears some of these volume issues are resolved, so hopefully smoother sailing as I really enjoy these but was starting to think they just were not worth all the extra work. Here is a the piece and you can hear them used at the opening credits starting around 4:24.


----------



## odod

NekujaK said:


> I see it in Native Access. Sonokinetic Manager and Native Access have sync issues. NA shows a bunch of Sonokinetic updates available that I updated long ago in SM, but this time, it's the other way around 🤷‍♂️


it does not sync with my NA .. :(, and i didn't get the updates from the Sono Manager


----------



## Sunny Schramm

odod said:


> it does not sync with my NA .. :(, and i didn't get the updates from the Sono Manager


Same - but "NOW" the updates are available in NI Access for the Orchestral- & Sordino-Strings.

Hope for you too?! 🍀


----------



## Remnant

For me the updates showed up in NI Access as well. Had no trouble downloading them.


----------



## maikey music

Native Instruments







www.native-instruments.com


----------



## EanS

maikey music said:


> Native Instruments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.native-instruments.com


Price of NOIR in that link is wrong btw if anyone gets excited like I did 😂 (Already notified Sonokinetic)

This link has the proper price: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/catalog/nks-special/

Although when adding to cart, both are priced well.


----------



## Limeopolis

Anyone have examples of how just the close mics sound? w/ no reverb?


----------



## dzilizzi

Well, I checked the sale and fortunately for my wallet, I have it all. Great prices though. And if you don't have The Watchmaker, grab it. It has the best old fashioned ticking clock sounds. Lots of wind up clocks. I've actually used them for percussion in a few projects. The bundle is a great deal as well.


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## muziksculp

Limeopolis said:


> Anyone have examples of how just the close mics sound? w/ no reverb?


The close mics still have quite a bit of ambience, so if you are looking for a dry sounding symphonic strings library, this one is not for you. imho. SOS is meant to have a good amount of ambience, and reflections of the great sounding concert hall it was recorded in. No point of re-engineering it to sound dry, it defies the whole attractiveness of this library. 

I can post some short audio clips of the Close-Spot mics on some articulations, i.e. the shorts like the pizz. or stacc. will give you a good idea of how they sound. Let me know if you still want to hear some audio clips.


----------



## Limeopolis

muziksculp said:


> The close mics still have quite a bit of ambience, so if you are looking for a dry sounding symphonic strings library, this one is not for you. imho. SOS is meant to have a good amount of ambience, and reflections of the great sounding concert hall it was recorded in. No point of re-engineering it to sound dry, it defies the whole attractiveness of this library.
> 
> I can post some short audio clips of the Close-Spot mics on some articulations, i.e. the shorts like the pizz. or stacc. will give you a good idea of how they sound. Let me know if you still want to hear some audio clips.


Some clips would br great! No rush of course.


----------



## muziksculp

Limeopolis said:


> Some clips would br great! No rush of course.


OK, I will post some audio clips when I have a little time to do so.


----------



## muziksculp

@Sonokinetic BV ,

I think I found a bug in your scripting when playing the Basses Pizzicato articulation at medium velocities, i.e. 50, 57, and up, but it doesn't happen when playing at vel. 127, and some lower value velocities (0 thru around 43 or maybe a bit more. These are specific to the notes E1 and Eb1. The played notes in the problematic velocity ranges sound like they cutoff the audio, then continue. Like a hiccup.

Here is what the script error message shows :





If anyone can try to check if they are getting this issue as well it would be helpful to confirm this. I will report this to Sonokinetic Support once it is confirmed by other users of this library. I'm using the latest version of Kontakt ver. 6.7.1 on Windows 10 .

Thanks.


----------



## Trash Panda

muziksculp said:


> I will report this to Sonokinetic Support once it is confirmed by other users of this library.


FYI, this kind of thing drives us people who work at software companies crazy. There is no benefit to withholding a support ticket to the company when you run into an issue.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Limeopolis ,

Here are the Celli using the close mics only, no reverb, or any EQ, just a limiter on the master bus. 

SOS Celli Pizz. Only Close Mics

View attachment SOS Celli Pizz Close.mp3


SOS Celli Staccatissimo. Only Close Mics

View attachment SOS Celli Staccatisimo Close.mp3


I hope this gives you a good enough idea of how the close-mics sound. 


Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp

@Trash Panda ,

No problem, No worries, I will report it to Sonokinetic Support even if no one confirms the issue here.


----------



## Remnant

Played around with Sonokinetic Orchestral Strings this weekend and grabbed this trailer from The CueTube to practice on. The composition is pretty lame (4 chords) as I was really just originally trying to work with the sound of the strings, but I ended up adding brass, percussion and a bit of choir. I think these strings sound great if you can get them in the sweet spot, but definitely not a dry sound regardless of mics and reverb. For me that's fine as I like a wet sound and really like the sound of this hall. This piece uses all five sections, violin1s and viola mostly morphing between sustain and expressive, violin1s also playing ostinatos with spiccato with a blend of some col legno and cellos and bass ostinatos with staccatissimo with a blend of some pizzicato. Cellos are also laying down a bed with some sul tasto chords. I am not a great mixer, but thought I would post it here in case anyone else is interested in this library and continuing to work with it.


----------



## [email protected]

Maddy said:


> 3. Just a small On/Off button at the bottom above the Sonokinetic logo (settings menu opener) that'd easily help toggle the Legato On/Off would be super cool. This is just a personal opinion.. could maybe take into consideration if more users support this?
> 
> Thanks again! Appreciate your support 🙌


@Sonokinetic BV I am just reworking my expression maps for this library and still wondering how to easily switch legato on/off. Is this button already available?


----------



## Gamin Ricks

Speaking honestly I am very unhappy with the purchase considering my first purchase from Sonokinetic , I initially loved the sound but the library is very complex to use with design issues that are totally unintuitive. Like even the simple legato switch. I am sure @Sonokinetic BV put a lot of money into recording and getting library to sound amazing, but it still has so many bugs and was released half baked. Also what's the use if no one finds the UI comfortable enough to use and no response and support on so many valuable suggestions raised in this forum, I feel like it's just money lost.

@Sonokinetic BV if you come across this message, would really appreciate if you could just let us know if you plan to support this product anymore or is it considered a finished product with no more updates?

Requesting:
1. Legato switch on main UI
2. Individual patches for less memory and ease of use
3. Ensemble patch (can wait for it)
4. In individual patch bring other setting to main page UI


----------



## muziksculp

I recommend emailing Sonokinetic Support, they are very responsive, for some reason @Sonokinetic BV is not replying, or active lately on this forum.


----------



## yusir

Is there a way to assign CC11 （default cc for morphing between articulations）to different articulations groups？For instance，I want to morph between vibrato and non vibrato at first part of my song，but I want to morph sustain and tremolo in another part？


----------



## Sonokinetic BV

yusir said:


> Is there a way to assign CC11 （default cc for morphing between articulations）to different articulations groups？For instance，I want to morph between vibrato and non vibrato at first part of my song，but I want to morph sustain and tremolo in another part？


yes - you can use/record the keyswitches to stack the articulations - play/program them overlapping to get them to stack rather than switch. Morph will always morph between the two active articulations


----------



## Remnant

We’re getting close to a year since these were released. I have worked with them quite a bit. Really love the sound when I get it dialed in, although sometimes that can be a little difficult. Sonokinetic often mentioned this was not just a limited release but that they had plans for this library into the future. @Sonokinetic-can we hope for some addition/update to this library as the end of the year is almost upon us?


----------



## Marsen




----------



## Remnant

Marsen said:


>



Sweet. I definitely thought Sonokinetic won Christmas in the VI world last year.


----------



## muziksculp

@Sonokinetic BV ,

I'm getting excited again this year. 

Q. What about your current Orchestral Woodwinds Library, will it be updated soon ? 

Looking forward to all the new exciting libraries you have for us this year, especially more Strings.  

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## dzilizzi

@muziksculp when did you start liking strings. I thought you were all accordians, all the time?


----------



## muziksculp

dzilizzi said:


> @muziksculp when did you start liking strings. I thought you were all accordians, all the time?


LOL..  

But, Accordions are wonderful instruments too.


----------



## dzilizzi

muziksculp said:


> LOL..
> 
> But, Accordions are wonderful instruments too.


True!


----------

