# Quit music, or not? I'm desperate



## TheCrucifix

Hello, this is going to be a very big post, so get ready. To be honest, I'm already ashamed of him, but I have to write this.

I am 21 years old, and I am writing here out of desperation. Now I am closer than ever to quitting music, and I need the advice of experienced people.

But first I will introduce myself: I am from Russia, from a rather poor family. From the "musical background" only singing in the church choir (7 years in a row) By education, information security, but I don't like this profession at all, so I got a diploma and forgot about it.
Around the age of 18, I suddenly realized that insanely much, I want to write music for video games and movies. I was absolutely amazed at how music can immerse you in a fictional universe, and what kind of context it can create. That was the first time I heard the orchestral soundtrack to Dark Souls 3 from the author Yuka Kitamura, and I thought I wanted the same. After that, I listened to the Frenchman Carpenter Brut, and realized that I also wanted to write electronic music, as a result of which I began to mix electronic and orchestral music, because I absolutely could not decide what I liked more. Also, then (and now) I really liked the music from the anime "Angel's Egg" by Yoshihiro Kanno. The main theme of this anime has an incredibly melancholic gamut, which has inspired me not once.

As a result, I started writing. A lot of writing. Sometimes, for 18 hours a day, just because nothing else interested me. At some point, it even became hard for me to listen to someone else's music, simply because it caused me an incredible desire to sit down and start writing. "I want to write the same way" - constantly sounds in my head. In general, almost everything I have, I wrote under great inspiration, inuitively, exclusively by ear. I've studied mixing, mastering, and I think I'm not bad at it, but there's another problem..

A HUGE problem. Unfortunately, I just hate music theory. At the age of 16, I dropped out of the first year of music school (which I miraculously entered) because solfeggio and piano playing were something completely counterintuitive for me. Yes, I don't know how to play any instrument at all, and I don't know 99% of music theory. No matter how much I try, I only have an aversion to studying these things. I've always just wanted to write music from the soul.

And you know, now I'm somewhere on the verge of giving it up, because I feel like an amateur. Since childhood, I have heard from everyone, and especially from my mother, that: without music theory, you are nobody, and you can't do anything. I watch interviews with composers I like, and they all graduated from the conservatory, and I don't even know how to read sheet music. Each of them masterfully plays the piano, violin, and 1000 other instruments, and I just... I'm just putting the bricks on the virtual panel. And unfortunately, I have absolutely no way to evaluate it. It sounds exactly the way I want it, but I do not know if I want it right. Besides, it probably sounds dead, because these are mostly not real instruments, but ordinary VST

To be honest, I do not know what I will do if I quit music. "Composing" (a big word) has always been a therapy, a goal and a dream for me. I solved every problem in my life with music. I remember when I was 20, my mother was dying in the hospital, my girlfriend left me after 5 years of a relationship, and they almost expelled me from college. That day I thought: well, that's it, it's time to die.
Of course, it was scary, so "before I died" I decided to launch a game that I had recently downloaded. It was called Ender Lilies. In the game menu there was a little girl in the rain, and "Ender Lilies - Main Theme" was playing. At that moment I started crying like a baby. I can say for sure that I have never cried like this in my life. As a result, I sat down and wrote 10 soundtracks in a day.

Naturally, I wrote it by ear. It was pretty simple music, because I didn't have any experience at all then, but I put everything I had into it, and probably that's the only reason I didn't jump off the roof that day. I'll attach this album here if anyone is interested, but in fact there is absolutely nothing special about it. The album tells the story of a child who walks through a country infected with the "magic plague" and looks at the horror that is happening in it.


Less than a year has passed since that moment. I've raised my level a lot, I've learned a lot of things, but not music theory. As soon as I plunge into the world of these "frets, steps, intervals", I immediately lose all interest in composing. As my last (and probably best) work, I will attach this one: 

In my music, I try to mix the pathos and Gothic grandeur of Dark Souls music with the aggressive electronic style of Carpenter Brut, and partly metal.

However, what is the point of all this? Do you know the feeling when you think you don't know something that everyone else around knows? I will ask for a job somewhere, and they will say to me: no, my friend, you did not graduate from the conservatory. Does it work like this? Or maybe I have a chance? Or maybe my music is just completely hopeless?

To be honest, I'm desperate, because I'm almost 22 years old, and I have to decide exactly what to do next in this life, so as not to waste time in vain. I really like to write music, in any genre, for anything, as long as it has a plot or purpose. But maybe there's nothing waiting for me in this, with this approach? I doubt that I will ever master solfeggio

In general, I'm asking you for a simple piece of advice. It is clear that the final decision remains with me, and in fact I am almost sure that I will NEVER stop writing. However, I want to know your opinion, guys. To hear about it from someone who is just more experienced. Maybe find a teacher (?)I'm sure I'm not the first one, so there will be a solution for me too

Thank you, it's important to me. And sorry for the bad English, I don't know it very well yet

UPD: There are so many good people on this forum. Thank you guys, you gave me an invaluable opinion and dispelled my doubts. I am very glad that I came here


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## Jeremy Gillam

Never quit music!


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## stonzthro

I'm not sure you've given it enough time. There is so much benefit to writing and playing music beyond making a living (though there is always a path if you just keep trying). Here is my advice to someone in your shoes - listen and analyze the kinds of music you like. Learning to compose is similar to learning a new language - you may know what you want to say, but you just don't have the words. Listening to other composers will help you learn more words and become more eloquent. Hang in there - you are off to a great start!


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## SupremeFist

The second track you posted has a lot more interest and attitude to my ear than a lot of stuff written by people with three music degrees, so don't sweat it. Maybe in 10 years you'll get more interested in studying (at least some) theory to see what you can take from it that you'll find useful. I say carry on!


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## PaulieDC

Your English is fine.

You're 21.. I have socks older than you. You haven't even STARTED, music is lifetime and you have all that in front of you, Lord willing.

In fact, to accomplish that much by 21 is pretty impressive. Sure, learn some music theory, that will help you write the chords/harmonies when you orchestrate. You'll be learning a lot more than that in life.

You're at the foot of the mountain and you are trying to get to the summit, but you're not seeing the actual mountain. There's only ONE thing you are missing: Patience.

Keep it going, you are too accomplished at a young age to quit.


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## Markrs

Keep going, I am almost echo envious of your passion and that you can write so well without theory (which remember is just a codifying of the things you are hearing as a set of conventions). I have been learning music theory because I can’t hear music they way you and others do, internally and from the heart. 

You might find that some music theory knowledge does seep in and you are able to understand more. Lots of composers don’t know music theory, or if they do it is only to a limited extent, but you wouldn’t know that from the complexity of their music no. 

You need to keep going, but if you can find balance in your life, other things you can put passion into that would be good.


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## SupremeFist

(If you can, take piano lessons.)


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## youngpokie

TheCrucifix said:


> As soon as I plunge into the world of these "frets, steps, intervals", I immediately lose all interest in composing.


This is the issue. You're mixing up the acquisition of technical skills with an emotional creative state of mind ("composing") and of course it's a buzz killer.

What you need to do is look at "music theory" differently, as something that does not contradict or compete with your "composing". If you find a way to mentally separate them, then you might even find real beauty in such mundane things as voice leading. The same thing goes for learning to read music and play an instrument - you need to conceptualize it mentally as something that's separate from the state of "creation" and feeling high. If you try to stop expecting these disciplines to be the extension of your "flow", then you will be able to "connect" with music theory. And if you love music, each new thing you learn will be a revelation that you can't wait to try.

And just to say one other thing - you're so incredibly lucky to live in a country where music education was literally industrialized on a mass scale until just recently. You are able to hire a conservatory level private teacher for a _tiniest fraction_ of what it would cost in the West. A conservatory student would cost even less as instructor, a music college student less still. You have free access to dozens of invaluable books that have been published during Soviet times, many of which have never been translated into English. You have an incredible culture of music and incredible level of access to learning.

I had a Ukrainian music college teacher as my music theory instructor - all online! - and we went through an entire year of college level harmony. An hour, twice a week. She was so good, I kind of fell in love with music theory. And you have the luxury of being able to do it in person and in the same language. So forgive me for saying this, but quit your whining, shift your mental gears and make a commitment.


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## TheCrucifix

youngpokie said:


> This is the issue. You're mixing up the acquisition of technical skills with an emotional creative state of mind ("composing") and of course it's a buzz killer.
> 
> What you need to do is look at "music theory" differently, as something that does not contradict or compete with your "composing". If you find a way to mentally separate them, then you might even find real beauty in such mundane things as voice leading. The same thing goes for learning to read music and play an instrument - you need to conceptualize it mentally as something that's separate from the state of "creation" and feeling high. If you try to stop expecting these disciplines to be the extension of your "flow", then you will be able to "connect" with music theory. And if you love music, each new thing you learn will be a revelation that you can't wait to try.
> 
> And just to say one other thing - you're so incredibly lucky to live in a country where music education was literally industrialized on a mass scale until just recently. You are able to hire a conservatory level private teacher for a _tiniest fraction_ of what it would cost in the West. A conservatory student would cost even less as instructor, a music college student less still. You have free access to dozens of invaluable books that have been published during Soviet times, many of which have never been translated into English. You have an incredible culture of music and incredible level of access to learning.
> 
> I had a Ukrainian music college teacher as my music theory instructor - all online! - and we went through an entire year of college level harmony. An hour, twice a week. She was so good, I kind of fell in love with music theory. And you have the luxury of being able to do it in person and in the same language. So forgive me for saying this, but quite your whining, shift your mental gears and make a commitment.


You right


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## Awoo Composer

Some of the greatest composers don't know an ounce of music theory, maybe not beyond the very basics. Music is all about creativity; theory just helps somewhat explain the "guidelines" of how music is structured.


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## David Kudell

You're still young and it's never too late to get into this. I dabbled in composition off and on from my teens until my 40's - not as my main career but a hobby. I didn't do it as a career because I didn't know much theory but just wrote by ear and instinct. 

It took winning a composing contest when I was 43 to make me realize I should do this as a career. So you have lots of time, don't be in such a hurry and just write music you like. Whether or not it turns into a career, the music you've created will be something you can be proud of.


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## LudovicVDP

David Kudell said:


> t took winning a composing contest when I was 43 to make me realize I should do this as a career.


Yeah !! I still have 3 years to make a big change in my life  There's still hope. That's a good news !


Anyway... There are a lot of things you can learn apart from pure music theory in the classical sense. 
Mixing, Sound design, using synth, recording stuff ... Music means sooo many things nowadays. 
If I can trust Wikipedia, Carpenter Brut only did 1 year at a Conservatory before quitting. 
Maybe he doesn't know music theory much (maybe he does) but he sure knows how to use a synth!

I attended a concert not so long ago and I don't think the room wondered about modulation or counterpoint much during the gig. We were all too busy jumping like crazy. 

Obviously, music theory can never be a bad thing (I'm frustrated every day because of how little I know). But you can always find a place where you feel confortable and have fun.

And yes... Only 21. Take it easy. You still have time.


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## Double Helix

First, welcome to VI-Control, @TheCrucifix

Consider channeling energy to other arenas where technical/theoretical/performance skills are not required
Based upon the second piece, you might consider, as @LudovicVDP mentions, integrating/focusing on "sound design" instead of orchestral composition--it sounds like you have a knack for it


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## dcoscina

It’s a marathon not a sprint. Like any discipline, it takes years to study. Don’t focus on the summit, just keep your focus on the journey.


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## Pincel

You can't quit! Judging by your story and what I'm hearing in the examples you posted, you really have music in your soul, and you found a way to express it, with or without theory knowledge, doesn't matter. Do what makes you happy, and try not to pay too much attention to the naysayers, they are everywhere unfortunately. Trust your instincts. Learning to read music and theory can be amazing for your skills and development no doubt, but you'll know when you're ready to dive deeper into it. 

Until then, please keep going, you have what it takes! If you can already write like that with about 1 year of experience, imagine how good you'll be in 5, 10 years...!

Keep it up, you're very young, and you're off to a great start!

Btw, your influences are pretty amazing, it's incredible rare for people to mention 'Angel's Egg', let alone it's amazing soundtrack, which I happen to love as well, so I know you're a special individual just by that reference!


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## Alex Niedt

1) Theory and music school aren't important, especially if you want to write game/film music.
2) Focus on what makes you love music and eschew what makes you feel negatively about it.
3) Try to relax and lower the stakes you've built up for music, or you will drain the joy from it completely. Sometimes this means getting a day job and making music in your spare time, purely for your own enjoyment, with zero expectations of yourself and no expectation that anyone else will ever hear it. That is when you'll make your best music and truly find your own voice.
4) Comparing yourself to others and trying to live by their expectations is a path to perpetual unhappiness. It doesn't matter if someone else graduated from conservatory, because they aren't you. And if their music is good, I assure you it's not because they went to conservatory. Also, your parents' opinions don't matter. Don't let someone else's vision of success cloud your own.
5) You have so many years ahead of you to experiment, grow, and learn. If at all possible, don't make those years more stressful than they need to be.
6) I wish you the best of luck, and welcome to the forum!


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## Ivan Duch

First, the music you're writing has a lot of personality. 

Just keep on writing, practice is the key here. And as others mentioned. It's a marathon, enjoy the ride. When in despair, be grateful that you have a passion and talent. 

Music Theory is just a tool. Thousands of awesome pop/rock/popular musicians and composers (watch some Christian Henson videos) can attest to that fact. Most of them don't even know how to read music or what they re doing. They simply know it sounds good and thats all that matters. 

The audience dont give a crap about music theory either.

If, at some point in your artistic journey you find yourself wishing to study some music theory for some specific project of yours go for it. 

At your age I had a lot of anxiety related to being able to make a living out of music. And I quitted for a while. If you find you're afraid of that in particular getting part time job to pay the bills might work. 

Now, I think the ability to promote your music is paramount.


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## Paul Grymaud

Are you from Russia? You know that Russia has provided wonderful composers: Rachmaninov, Rimsky-Korsakov, Chostakovich, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Mussorgsky, Scriabin, Sokolov, Borodin and the immense Tchaikowski! Did you know that Tchaikowski drew some of his musical inspiration from Russian FOLKLORE? For example, if you listen to Lenski's aria in the opera Eugene Onegin, you can clearly hear this typically lyrical moment in folklore, especially when the tenor (and the orchestra) accentuates the crescendo in the middle of the aria. I sang it myself in Russian. It is sublime, divine! So don't be discouraged. If you go to the doctor to have your blood taken and he tells you that, apart from blood cells and platelets, you have an overpopulation of musical notes, it's a good sign! And, why not learn to play an instrument? Piano, violin, flute, guitar or why not the balalaika? I did learn the bluegrass banjo (typically US) while living in Belgium. Learning an instrument will broaden your horizon and enrich your musical knowledge. Even by ear you can progress quickly, especially if you are willing to devote 18 hours a day to it... And, as I said, folk music or world music as it is called nowadays is intensely rich. Folklore does mean "knowledge of the people". Often associated with dances, these musics are the essence of the culture: Bossa, flamenca, fado, katioucha, sirtaki, bluegrass, celtic, raï, kabuki, reggae, rumba, salsa, etc. Never betray the music if it has chosen you.


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## musicalweather

Your music sounds very good! I'll second what others are saying: don't give up! I think you should learn music theory. But think of it like learning ...Portuguese. If I learn Portuguese, it's not going to detract from my English language abilities. Take some of the pressure off and think of it as a separate activity that doesn't have to apply right away to what you're doing. Estou aprendendo português! Isso é tão divertido! If you think of it more objectively, it doesn't become so oversized a goal. True story: I grew up playing classical piano and could read music pretty well. But I never had music theory. Still, I got accepted to a music conservatory (later in life, at age _34_), and they had me take basic classes in music theory. I got up to an advanced level of theory in two years. It can definitely be done! I would get the help of a tutor if you can. But if you can't, a good combination for teaching yourself is https://www.amazon.com/Contemporary-Music-Theory-Complete-Musician/dp/0793598818/ref=asc_df_0793598818/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312030486371&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16961731093314798782&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031639&hvtargid=pla-470455022624&psc=1 (Contemporary Music Theory) and EarMaster 7 software. Dude, you are so young. You've got loads of time.


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## TheCrucifix

Pincel said:


> You can't quit! Judging by your story and what I'm hearing in the examples you posted, you really have music in your soul, and you found a way to express it, with or without theory knowledge, doesn't matter. Do what makes you happy, and try not to pay too much attention to the naysayers, they are everywhere unfortunately. Trust your instincts. Learning to read music and theory can be amazing for your skills and development no doubt, but you'll know when you're ready to dive deeper into it.
> 
> Until then, please keep going, you have what it takes! If you can already write like that with about 1 year of experience, imagine how good you'll be in 5, 10 years...!
> 
> Keep it up, you're very young, and you're off to a great start!
> 
> Btw, your influences are pretty amazing, it's incredible rare for people to mention 'Angel's Egg', let alone it's amazing soundtrack, which I happen to love as well, so I know you're a special individual just by that reference!


Angel's Egg is a very underrated work =(


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## Pier

You may be feeling you need to make a HUGE life decision right NOW. Maybe you're feeling as if you were running out of time. None of that is true.

You're very young and have plenty of time to figure things out. You don't need to make any drastic decision.

What I'm saying is, don't think about it in terms of "quitting music for the rest of my life" but maybe just "I'm taking a break and seeing how it feels". It's totally alright to just pause anything for a couple of weeks, or months, or even years. Whenever you want to get back to it, it will be there for you.

You have plenty of time to figure things out.


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## c0nsilience

@TheCrucifix To echo what others have said in this post: keep on keeping on. Music is the universal language of life. It adds so much meaning for those creating it as well as those that are just enjoying it. Don't give up on it and don't give up on yourself.

Life is made up of peaks and valleys. All of us experience this, no matter what our background or circumstances. The struggle is part of the beauty, and not just for contrast, but because it is a part of life. It's universal to the human experience. Everything that you go through, makes you, you, which is a wealth of material to draw from. With talent and practice, you can harness this for others to see the world through your perspective. There's a tremendous amount of satisfaction to be gained from making someone's day, week, month, or life, just a little bit brighter than it was before they encountered you. In fact, I haven't found much of anything else that is truly more satisfying.

Continue to inspire the world with your art and don't worry about the self-doubt. That's part of it and will keep you humble and grounded when you ascend the peak! 🙂


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## Spid

For many reason I won't develop here, I took a break from music for couple years... and you know what I gain? NOTHING... I only lost valuable years.

So, NEVER QUIT MUSIC... 

Now, yes, Music Theory could help, no doubt about it. But if it's not your thing, just don't bother with it. I was watching a video with multiple composers, including Hans Zimmer, and at one point, of the guys tells him: "but I can't read (score)", then Hans replied: "neither can't I"... following by something I'm paraphrasing here, but something like: "it doesn't matter, you know why? Because everyone can read, but not everyone can write"... meaning, you can read, but it won't make you a good writer (book, music, whatever...). So being not able to read never stop HZ to become who he is today.

You can write great music and not have a clue to how to read score... so what? who cares? (beside your mother). I'm an old fart now and you know what I learned all those years? Our parents aren't always right... they just do their best, just like we do... sometimes they're right, sometimes they fuck up... just like us. But most of it, you're not growing in the same world your mother grew up... so many things changed. I have no doubt, in the past, music theory was necessary to have a music career... but today, you can put music online and become a millionaire... or not. 

Anything is possible because of this great thing we all enjoy: Technology... from great computers, to nice sample libraries, to internet to share with others, to communicate, learn, and being in touch with other artists, other composers, maybe get in touch with professionals that might like your work, etc... so many ways your mother couldn't imagine at her time... what's important is to stay up to date to the current world, what is important TODAY. Because it might not be music theory, but it might be something else, like social networks, or learning mixing and mastering (like you mentioned), or else... I honestly don't know, I'm still learning myself, and I'm over double your age... so you see, you still have a long way ahead of you. We never stop learning.

If you get bored, maybe change project, do something completely different. It's ok to mix music style, like EDM and Orchestral... why not? Rules #1 in music: there's no rule... Try something uncomfortable, something you never done, it's generally a good way to be creative by discovering something new. Nobody can learn everything in music, it's a very too complex matter... so no matter what you know, you will always find something new to learn. If you can't find it, you're not looking for it well enough.

Also, 15 to 30 years old are the best creative years. I was listening to some podcast from a Professor of psychiatry that was explaining that humans develop their brain until 25 I believe, and therefore the years from 15 to 30 are generally the years where they're very productive... and if well used, this productivity can lead to creativity. If not, it could also lead to criminality... it was fascinating.

I'm clearly butchering the explanation here, but long story short, you're living your best years now, so don't waste them by focusing on meaningless issues (like being able to read or not...). You could always start to learn music theory later on when you will be dry out of ideas.

"Stay hungry, stay foolish"


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## babylonwaves

congrats! if you love doing this keep going. commercial success and making music might be two different things. if you want commercial success you might want to look into tools assisting you under pressure. not necessarily because those make you better but faster. piano and theory lessons are a good thing for that.


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## JohnG

As usual, a lot of advice, some good, some terrible.

*Money*

If you are poor, you can't just "keep on no matter what." You need a plan. What that should be, I can't say, though a lot of people on here work in the computer or information technology business to make a living, doing music when and as they have time. Nobody can live on passion alone.

*Theory*

Music theory is not something to skip if you want to work on movies or games. There is not enough time to compose it all by ear. Everyone always trots out Hans Zimmer as if he knows nothing of theory. Only if you define theory in the most narrow way could you say that; he knows plenty of what would be included under "theory."

That said, you don't need that _much_ music theory. If you can read chord symbols and play guitar or piano or -- anything really -- that's enough to get a lot written.

*Playing*

Learn to play at least one instrument well. Every well-known composer can do it.

Other than that, you seem intelligent. You can make up your own mind about what you really want.

Good luck and try to have fun!!

John


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## Laurin Lenschow

I'm honestly surprised no one has posted this yet...


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## Trash Panda

TheCrucifix said:


>



WITAF? This sounds like Castlevania and Bloodborne had a baby with The Matrix. And it totally works. 

You have talent my friend. Combine that with persistence and passion and that’s all you need to make good music. 

Mikael Akerfeldt of Opeth famously stated in an interview that he knows zero music theory and he has written incredibly well thought out and intricate music for decades.

Don’t give up on music. 

A smart person once told me that music theory makes more sense when you stop thinking of it as THE RULES and think of it as learning how to verbalize the elements of music in a manner that others trained in the language can understand. 

Don’t beat yourself up either in meeting any kind of arbitrary goals you or anyone else sets for yourself. That only leads to resenting your passion. 

Enjoy the process of creation. Don’t worry about what happens when you share it. Everyone can find an audience these days.


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## NuNativs

You shouldn't even be able to ask yourself that question.


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## creativeforge

TheCrucifix said:


> Hello, this is going to be a very big post, so get ready. To be honest, I'm already ashamed of him, but I have to write this.
> 
> I am 21 years old, and I am writing here out of desperation. Now I am closer than ever to quitting music, and I need the advice of experienced people.
> 
> But first I will introduce myself: I am from Russia, from a rather poor family. From the "musical background" only singing in the church choir (7 years in a row) By education, information security, but I don't like this profession at all, so I got a diploma and forgot about it.
> Around the age of 18, I suddenly realized that insanely much, I want to write music for video games and movies. I was absolutely amazed at how music can immerse you in a fictional universe, and what kind of context it can create. That was the first time I heard the orchestral soundtrack to Dark Souls 3 from the author Yuka Kitamura, and I thought I wanted the same. After that, I listened to the Frenchman Carpenter Brut, and realized that I also wanted to write electronic music, as a result of which I began to mix electronic and orchestral music, because I absolutely could not decide what I liked more. Also, then (and now) I really liked the music from the anime "Angel's Egg" by Yoshihiro Kanno. The main theme of this anime has an incredibly melancholic gamut, which has inspired me not once.
> 
> As a result, I started writing. A lot of writing. Sometimes, for 18 hours a day, just because nothing else interested me. At some point, it even became hard for me to listen to someone else's music, simply because it caused me an incredible desire to sit down and start writing. "I want to write the same way" - constantly sounds in my head. In general, almost everything I have, I wrote under great inspiration, inuitively, exclusively by ear. I've studied mixing, mastering, and I think I'm not bad at it, but there's another problem..
> 
> A HUGE problem. Unfortunately, I just hate music theory. At the age of 16, I dropped out of the first year of music school (which I miraculously entered) because solfeggio and piano playing were something completely counterintuitive for me. Yes, I don't know how to play any instrument at all, and I don't know 99% of music theory. No matter how much I try, I only have an aversion to studying these things. I've always just wanted to write music from the soul.
> 
> And you know, now I'm somewhere on the verge of giving it up, because I feel like an amateur. Since childhood, I have heard from everyone, and especially from my mother, that: without music theory, you are nobody, and you can't do anything. I watch interviews with composers I like, and they all graduated from the conservatory, and I don't even know how to read sheet music. Each of them masterfully plays the piano, violin, and 1000 other instruments, and I just... I'm just putting the bricks on the virtual panel. And unfortunately, I have absolutely no way to evaluate it. It sounds exactly the way I want it, but I do not know if I want it right. Besides, it probably sounds dead, because these are mostly not real instruments, but ordinary VST
> 
> To be honest, I do not know what I will do if I quit music. "Composing" (a big word) has always been a therapy, a goal and a dream for me. I solved every problem in my life with music. I remember when I was 20, my mother was dying in the hospital, my girlfriend left me after 5 years of a relationship, and they almost expelled me from college. That day I thought: well, that's it, it's time to die.
> Of course, it was scary, so "before I died" I decided to launch a game that I had recently downloaded. It was called Ender Lilies. In the game menu there was a little girl in the rain, and "Ender Lilies - Main Theme" was playing. At that moment I started crying like a baby. I can say for sure that I have never cried like this in my life. As a result, I sat down and wrote 10 soundtracks in a day.
> 
> Naturally, I wrote it by ear. It was pretty simple music, because I didn't have any experience at all then, but I put everything I had into it, and probably that's the only reason I didn't jump off the roof that day. I'll attach this album here if anyone is interested, but in fact there is absolutely nothing special about it. The album tells the story of a child who walks through a country infected with the "magic plague" and looks at the horror that is happening in it.
> 
> 
> Less than a year has passed since that moment. I've raised my level a lot, I've learned a lot of things, but not music theory. As soon as I plunge into the world of these "frets, steps, intervals", I immediately lose all interest in composing. As my last (and probably best) work, I will attach this one:
> 
> In my music, I try to mix the pathos and Gothic grandeur of Dark Souls music with the aggressive electronic style of Carpenter Brut, and partly metal.
> 
> However, what is the point of all this? Do you know the feeling when you think you don't know something that everyone else around knows? I will ask for a job somewhere, and they will say to me: no, my friend, you did not graduate from the conservatory. Does it work like this? Or maybe I have a chance? Or maybe my music is just completely hopeless?
> 
> To be honest, I'm desperate, because I'm almost 22 years old, and I have to decide exactly what to do next in this life, so as not to waste time in vain. I really like to write music, in any genre, for anything, as long as it has a plot or purpose. But maybe there's nothing waiting for me in this, with this approach? I doubt that I will ever master solfeggio
> 
> In general, I'm asking you for a simple piece of advice. It is clear that the final decision remains with me, and in fact I am almost sure that I will NEVER stop writing. However, I want to know your opinion, guys. To hear about it from someone who is just more experienced. Maybe find a teacher (?)I'm sure I'm not the first one, so there will be a solution for me too
> 
> Thank you, it's important to me. And sorry for the bad English, I don't know it very well yet
> 
> UPD: There are so many good people on this forum. Thank you guys, you gave me an invaluable opinion and dispelled my doubts. I am very glad that I came here




Hey, for what it's worth ► you have TALENT, PASSION and CREATIVITY!! These are inherent, NOT LEARNED, and so you have what matters most, imho.

Have you tried connecting with cinema or video game students, maybe do a few volunteer projects to give you experience (don't sign your rights away). You could also take p;art on a few composing contests that show up here from time to time, sponsored by library makers.

Also bear in mind that most artists don't have permanent employment. So be your own artist, create, create, create, develop your projects, and life will happen. 

Don't give up, buddy!


----------



## PaulieDC

TheCrucifix said:


> UPD: There are so many good people on this forum. Thank you guys, you gave me an invaluable opinion and dispelled my doubts. I am very glad that I came here


👍👍👍


----------



## tmhuud

As my friend John Ottman once told me, “Be careful what you wish for.” And another friend, said “Reach for the stars”. I’d say Reach for the stars and deal with what comes later.


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## mikeh-375

@TheCrucifix . Don't think that theory and as you put it, "the soul" are mutually exclusive, they are not and you have fallen for the biggest misconception by many non-theory composers about its function in creativity. Theory supports and inspires your soul. You do however have to practice theory and not just read about it if you want to get to the stage whereby theory and your musical fantasy are cooperating as one. So the task of learning theory may be even more of a chore than you want to hear about, but there it is.
I mean there's no point in _just looking_ at all of those scales and arpeggios on a page, you have to actually play, practise and learn them over time right? Also, learn with a tutor who can guide you and give you appropriate exercises to work on, you'll soon begin to find how doing this kind of learning and practising -from the bottom up- begins to free your creative restraints and hang ups.

Stick with it, you are young, but do it properly whilst you still have the chance to fully realise your potential and what you are musically made of - yes, theory and its incorporation into your aesthetics, can offer you that. Give yourself every chance to reach the best you can be for if you don't, you might regret it in future. However if you are dreaming of becoming professional then make sure you have a back-up or alternative career plan for there is no guarantee whatsoever of either reaching personal goals, (although there will be massive improvement), nor career success. 

@JohnG says you don't have to learn it all, I agree but you do need to be judicious in what you do learn to make sure you get a solid foundation at least. Then you can cherry pick whatever suits your needs.


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## Saxer

I hated music theory when I was 21 too. I got some lessons but to me it was always a useless collection of dry words and strange calculations in a kind of secret language. And most of the things I had to do I did wrong. It was frustrating.

It changed when I started to figure out the chords in a lead sheet (realbook style notation with just one melody line and chord symbols). I counted the keys on the keyboard to find the right notes. I remember when I found out how to play a Fminor7 on a Fender Rhodes when I was alone in our band rehearsal room. And then there was a Bb in the bass. Fm7/Bb! Boah, what a sound! From there I moved on and over time more and more of this math words made sense.
It's like a foreign language: you learn the first words and can't even pronounce them but when you are able to order a beer and really get one it feels great!

Sitting on a keyboard and play stuff that you didn't write yourself helps a lot! Listen and play. Take the time. You are not in a hurry. No need to quit. Have fun.


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## Chris Schmidt

I've lost count of how many times I've quit so far.


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## creativeforge

Chris Schmidt said:


> I've lost count of how many times I've quit so far.


The struggle is real...


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## d4vec4rter

My thoughts after playing and creating music for more than 40 years? Music is not a "hobby", "pastime", "vocation"... whatever you want to describe it in that sense, it is a way of life. It's either in your blood or not. You may feel like leaving it at times but, believe me, it will never leave you. I've had big gaps in my active playing (drums and guitar) but I've always gone back to it and, at 61 years old, I'm still in a band. Similarly with the recording. I'm as busy now as I've always been.

By all means take a break, it can help sometimes, but know that it'll always be there to come back to and enjoy more than ever.


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## ZenBYD

a pro isn't someone with the latest sample library. A pro is someone who can make someone else look good, make their life easy, and do it every time.

If you want to do music for a living, then you don't need music theory. you don't need an agent. you don't need the latest sample library. 

what you do need is a network. meet people. meet people you can help, that can help you. meet people you find interesting. keep in touch. find people who like you, because you're good AND fun (vs the guy who is good and boring)... we're all humans, and humans want to spend their energy with other humans that they a) like and b) benefit them. It's as simple as that.

don't sit in front of your computer 24/7 and wonder what your doing with your life. don't buy more samples. Go and find the humans that you like, the ones that like you... that are interested in the same things. spot the ones that are good and stay in touch, even if they're not successful. they probably will be one day.

how do you do that? well, find some local composers and go and meet them for a drink. in person. meet local directors. young advertising creatives. young game developers. Google and linkedIn will tell you who's in your town doing that stuff. If you live in the middle of nowhere... move. Tell everyone you meet that you're a composer. ask them if they need any music.

at 22, you can do whatever you want. I did some crazy jobs before the music started paying its way. if you're genuinely into music (and it sounds like you are) and want to do it for a living, then you'll make it work - but you do need other people. call it a network. call it friends in the industry. call it a team.

/my 2c


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## Ricgus3

Music is not something you "do" or a job, or something you "quit", atleast not for me. Music for me is a lifestyle and something that will always be present in one way or another. Just like pooping, eating, sleeping, you need it. Same with Music. Diffrent periods of your life you will have more or less music active in your life. Taking a break is fine aslo!


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## Inherently

Welcome to the forum.

Such a post!

I couldn't agree more with the other replies here. Echo those!

Two cents more:

1. The theory to learn, and to practice, is mental toughness, especially if you are going to share the music you've created with others. You need to learn about you. Because when no other person can affirm your work, and when you ask for detailed advice, and hear things that make you consider quitting, you will need to know how to persist. Watch yourself, notice when your will is weak, notice when your will is strong, and smarten up about that. People can learn to talk about music in a manner that makes other people wish they had never been born. Right? Deal with that! Don't go chasing theory if it doesn't magnify you. The Harvard Business Review has a number of titles on Mental Toughness you might consider.

2. Jason Allen created a course called Music Theory for Electronic Music Producers; since you are already successfully producing electronic music you might return to your music theory studies with Dr. Allen.

3. W.A. Mathieu wrote a book called Harmonic Experience about the things people feel and know when they make music together. Since you already have experience singing sacred music in sacred spaces, you might connect with this. He discusses feeling and knowing music in a manner that makes music, and musicians, larger. Theory is essential for that.

4. You might take a look at the film 'The Miracle Worker.'


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## Pier

Regarding theory...

Initially I saw theory as a set of rules.

But the more you dig into theory the more you realize pretty much anything is valid in the right context.

Like, just put your fist on the piano to play 5 adjacent random notes at the same time and you get a fancy pancy cluster! Play C major and then put some random chords with alterations and you get a chromatic substitution. There are fancy names for any weird thing you can come up with.






Sure, maybe you wouldn't do weird chromatic things if writing music for children. It all depends on the context. Again, the point is that anything can be valid.

Theory is not a set of rules, it's just a system that tries to explain common (and not so common) patterns. If it sounds good to you I can 100% guarantee someone has explained why it works via theory.

Here's the very important thing: you don't really need to know all the theory to justify your instincts.

I'm not saying you shouldn't study theory. You definitely should. But don't see it as a set of rules you have to follow. It's just another tool in your belt. No amount of theory will be a substitute for experience, creativity, and instincts.

Edit:

As an example just listen to Pink Floyd's Breathe.

It's just ii to V the whole time during the verses! For like minutes! What idiot did come up with that dumb progression!



Or Cream's Sunshine of your Love! they repeat the same thing for minutes too! What kind of idiots are these!



Of course I'm joking 

These people are genre-defining geniuses.


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## Jeremy Spencer

Good God man, you're only a kid, practically still in diapers Lol. I'm in my early 50's, and composed professionally for years without any theory or formal training. Eventually though, I bit the bullet and studied piano, which I highly recommend. Even if you can buy a few beginner piano books, it's a good start and it all helps. And when you can afford it, find a good piano teacher; you don't even need a piano, just your MIDI controller.

Don't count on writing music to earn a comfortable living anytime soon (or ever). Find yourself a decent "day job" or career, and keep pursuing your musical dream on the side. It may work out, it may not. But the important thing is to continue pursuing the dream. Otherwise, you'll have regrets and resentment later in life.


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## walkaschaos

Being an 'amateur', and making music as a 'hobby' (even if you are really passionate about it), can be seen as a blessing vs. a curse, depending on your perspective. I've tried making music and doing related things for money and for me, it was a nightmare. I'd much rather have a 'normal' non-musical job and make whatever music I want in my spare time for fun. Turning your passion into a revenue generator in a capitalist world isn't always THE DREAM everyone cracks it up to be, IMHO.


----------



## Thundercat

TheCrucifix said:


> Hello, this is going to be a very big post, so get ready. To be honest, I'm already ashamed of him, but I have to write this.
> 
> I am 21 years old, and I am writing here out of desperation. Now I am closer than ever to quitting music, and I need the advice of experienced people.
> 
> But first I will introduce myself: I am from Russia, from a rather poor family. From the "musical background" only singing in the church choir (7 years in a row) By education, information security, but I don't like this profession at all, so I got a diploma and forgot about it.
> Around the age of 18, I suddenly realized that insanely much, I want to write music for video games and movies. I was absolutely amazed at how music can immerse you in a fictional universe, and what kind of context it can create. That was the first time I heard the orchestral soundtrack to Dark Souls 3 from the author Yuka Kitamura, and I thought I wanted the same. After that, I listened to the Frenchman Carpenter Brut, and realized that I also wanted to write electronic music, as a result of which I began to mix electronic and orchestral music, because I absolutely could not decide what I liked more. Also, then (and now) I really liked the music from the anime "Angel's Egg" by Yoshihiro Kanno. The main theme of this anime has an incredibly melancholic gamut, which has inspired me not once.
> 
> As a result, I started writing. A lot of writing. Sometimes, for 18 hours a day, just because nothing else interested me. At some point, it even became hard for me to listen to someone else's music, simply because it caused me an incredible desire to sit down and start writing. "I want to write the same way" - constantly sounds in my head. In general, almost everything I have, I wrote under great inspiration, inuitively, exclusively by ear. I've studied mixing, mastering, and I think I'm not bad at it, but there's another problem..
> 
> A HUGE problem. Unfortunately, I just hate music theory. At the age of 16, I dropped out of the first year of music school (which I miraculously entered) because solfeggio and piano playing were something completely counterintuitive for me. Yes, I don't know how to play any instrument at all, and I don't know 99% of music theory. No matter how much I try, I only have an aversion to studying these things. I've always just wanted to write music from the soul.
> 
> And you know, now I'm somewhere on the verge of giving it up, because I feel like an amateur. Since childhood, I have heard from everyone, and especially from my mother, that: without music theory, you are nobody, and you can't do anything. I watch interviews with composers I like, and they all graduated from the conservatory, and I don't even know how to read sheet music. Each of them masterfully plays the piano, violin, and 1000 other instruments, and I just... I'm just putting the bricks on the virtual panel. And unfortunately, I have absolutely no way to evaluate it. It sounds exactly the way I want it, but I do not know if I want it right. Besides, it probably sounds dead, because these are mostly not real instruments, but ordinary VST
> 
> To be honest, I do not know what I will do if I quit music. "Composing" (a big word) has always been a therapy, a goal and a dream for me. I solved every problem in my life with music. I remember when I was 20, my mother was dying in the hospital, my girlfriend left me after 5 years of a relationship, and they almost expelled me from college. That day I thought: well, that's it, it's time to die.
> Of course, it was scary, so "before I died" I decided to launch a game that I had recently downloaded. It was called Ender Lilies. In the game menu there was a little girl in the rain, and "Ender Lilies - Main Theme" was playing. At that moment I started crying like a baby. I can say for sure that I have never cried like this in my life. As a result, I sat down and wrote 10 soundtracks in a day.
> 
> Naturally, I wrote it by ear. It was pretty simple music, because I didn't have any experience at all then, but I put everything I had into it, and probably that's the only reason I didn't jump off the roof that day. I'll attach this album here if anyone is interested, but in fact there is absolutely nothing special about it. The album tells the story of a child who walks through a country infected with the "magic plague" and looks at the horror that is happening in it.
> 
> 
> Less than a year has passed since that moment. I've raised my level a lot, I've learned a lot of things, but not music theory. As soon as I plunge into the world of these "frets, steps, intervals", I immediately lose all interest in composing. As my last (and probably best) work, I will attach this one:
> 
> In my music, I try to mix the pathos and Gothic grandeur of Dark Souls music with the aggressive electronic style of Carpenter Brut, and partly metal.
> 
> However, what is the point of all this? Do you know the feeling when you think you don't know something that everyone else around knows? I will ask for a job somewhere, and they will say to me: no, my friend, you did not graduate from the conservatory. Does it work like this? Or maybe I have a chance? Or maybe my music is just completely hopeless?
> 
> To be honest, I'm desperate, because I'm almost 22 years old, and I have to decide exactly what to do next in this life, so as not to waste time in vain. I really like to write music, in any genre, for anything, as long as it has a plot or purpose. But maybe there's nothing waiting for me in this, with this approach? I doubt that I will ever master solfeggio
> 
> In general, I'm asking you for a simple piece of advice. It is clear that the final decision remains with me, and in fact I am almost sure that I will NEVER stop writing. However, I want to know your opinion, guys. To hear about it from someone who is just more experienced. Maybe find a teacher (?)I'm sure I'm not the first one, so there will be a solution for me too
> 
> Thank you, it's important to me. And sorry for the bad English, I don't know it very well yet
> 
> UPD: There are so many good people on this forum. Thank you guys, you gave me an invaluable opinion and dispelled my doubts. I am very glad that I came here



You are EXTREMELY talented and you will do yourself and the world a disservice if you "quit" music, which I don't think you'll ever do.

Yes music theory is important, and helpful, but did they ever tell you that music theory was developed AFTER THE FACT of music being in existence? In other words, people wrote music, others analyzed it and made up rules to explain what the music was doing.

So while I would definitely encourage you to find BABY STEPS to understanding music theory, DO NOT LET THIS STOP YOU!

Your soundtrack is interesting, and shows a great talent.

Just think, if you study the smallest little bit of music theory, 5 minutes a day, on some kiddy music site or something, after a year you will have studied music theory for 5 minutes x 365 ~ 30 hours.

Also, it gets easier too once you understand a little bit.

Please don't stop writing.

Mike


----------



## RogiervG

Maybe you should take a short break from it.. clear your mind a bit. It will make the road ahead less cloudy.
I do this myself every now and then... it gives perspective, vision.

As for learning: realise that knowledge, and application of the knowledge is for most people not a walk in the park.
It needs investment, dedication. You invest some, you gain some.. after the bigger hurdles, you will see it's actually not that hard/bad to continue to learn/apply, and it becomes more a second nature to you. And dear fellow musician, know this.. it's worth it, maybe you will be a professional (earning money) maybe remain doing it as a hobby.. it should not matter.

the goal focus: It's about the fun you have being a musician, it should relax you, excite you, drive you up the wall.. and feel like smooth sailing.. in other words it can be very emotional (music is the universal language of emotion)


----------



## mikeh-375

Pier said:


> .... It's (theory) just another tool in your belt. No amount of theory will be a substitute for experience, creativity, and instincts.


But @Pier learning theory gives you plenty of knowledgeable and valuable hands-on experience via discovery through learning. It actually enables creativity and absolutely develops your instincts - in fact it supports your instincts if you ally it with compositional creativity in the correct way. Of course ymmv..  but the implication of what you said about "no amount of theory" etc. is something I just have to respectfully disagree with.
As always, the more you know the more options you have.


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## GtrString

You have all the time in the world, don’t sweat it. Music theory can be narrative, so just use your storytelling skills and you will be fine. You can’t quit music, because you don’t choose music. Music chooses you. 

Most musicians in the world do other things also, though. So maybe take it slow, and do other stuff too. It will all settle in time


----------



## Daren Audio

Some great advice!
He even touched on limited finances and taking a break.


----------



## Jotto

Quit. Its a waste of time


----------



## szczaw

Pier said:


> It's just ii to V the whole time during the verses! For like minutes! What idiot did come up with that dumb progression!


Likely somebody high with his sense of judgment suspended, would come up with that.


----------



## Celestial Aeon

Just keep at it! I have never studied theory past the basics, don't play any instrument masterfully, worked in IT business as a programmer for 10 years and always thought that music will always be just a random hobby for me that won't ever lead to anything and nobody will care about what I create but what do you know, here I am just composing and producing music full time in my own way and style. Of course in reality many things are about chances, luck, right time, right place etc which you can't control and one can just be grateful for all the opportunities that just have arrived, but I think that if you just keep at it, the chances of finding those lucky strikes can be realistic. You got this!


----------



## modal

I took jazz piano lessons for a year to both improve my piano playing but also as a way to get a better grip on jazz harmony. It improved my theory and piano playing along with a different view on voice leading. I knew some level of theory and had basic piano skills before hand but I don’t think that mattered. I offer this as another alternative where perhaps you accomplish a few things at the same time without it feeling like theory. And I think jazz translates well to many forms of music. 

In any case good luck.


----------



## acreich

TheCrucifix said:


> ...


I remember watching a video about some of the most famous guitar players admitting they actually cannot read music. (Probably can be found on Youtube.) Point is: here are many different ways, not the one perfect one. If making music fills something in you, then there is no reason to quit it.


----------



## AcousTech

TheCrucifix said:


> I am from Russia, from a rather poor family.





TheCrucifix said:


> By education, information security, but I don't like this profession at all, so I got a diploma and forgot about it.



Hopefully you’ve received what encouragement you’ve needed. A practical note, then:

1. Musical tools, like any tools, cost money. 

2. If you’re Russian, read and speak English, and have a degree in Information Security, you may be able to make a LOT of money. And, all of those IT/computer skills will have value when working with electronic music. You don’t have to make InfoSec a lifetime career, or even a very long one, but it can pay the bills, and fund the tools you want/need while you spend all your free time doing what you love. 

It’s all part of the journey. Make the most of it all while writing YOUR soundtrack…


----------



## Pier

mikeh-375 said:


> But @Pier learning theory gives you plenty of knowledgeable and valuable hands-on experience via discovery through learning. It actually enables creativity and absolutely develops your instincts - in fact it supports your instincts if you ally it with compositional creativity in the correct way. Of course ymmv..  but the implication of what you said about "no amount of theory" etc. is something I just have to respectfully disagree with.
> As always, the more you know the more options you have.


I totally understand where you're coming from and I agree. I'm only saying theory is not a rule book, but rather guidance.

I actually encouraged OP to learn theory!


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## fan455

Glad to meet you! I'm similar to your age, probably half a year older (sorry for the wrong birth date in my profile!), from China, and will be in college for 3 more years studying accounting for a master's degree. Sorry for the hardships in your life and wish everything will go better for you.

To be honest, if I had your experience with music in childhood, I'd appreciate a lot. Music had never been what I wanted to do in my life (I only engaged with music passively) until 2 years ago, when I had an opera and musical class (optional) in college (I didn't even wanna choose this class at first but no seats in other classes!) and began to love music since then. 1 year ago I started learning some music theory by reading some books, only to be able to read sheet music and play my favorite songs on piano to make my life more interesting. But I then realized it had been my spiritual need to write some music myself.

Having listened to your tracks, I really feel your creativity, particularly the sounds you choose, the rhythm, and I see you've added more melodic stuff in your latest work, though I have poor experience in electronic music! But I feel like the harmony in your music is a bit unclear. If you wanna tell some stories through music, that might be essential. And learning more music theory might help...at leat for me. I sometimes have some melodic stuff floating around in my mind, and after learning music theories I found it's the 'phantom' chord notes, particularly the very bass notes, that gave me the feel of these melodies, even if I never knew before. I still refuse to write music starting from a pre-defined chord progression which kills my inspiration every time I try, but have been able to know more clearly which chord, or at least which bass note I'm probably actually in when I come up with an instant melody. Hope that helps.

Here's my first attempt to write music, recently. It's so simple and a bit weird (especially the last 2 bars...) that I dared not share here, but after reading your post I just want to do so... I had the melody first in my mind, and then harmonized it based on my understanding of music theory. 

View attachment 001.mp3


My future will still be a focus accounting, but music has been a little magic part of my life. I've also discovered some interesting links between the two, and will surely dive more into them. May you have a bright future. It's all your choice.

Best wishes.


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## BGvanRens

I don't have much to add to what has already been said, but do not quit! I had a sloppy road in my 20s and I regret not pushing through. I did completely burn out from being non-stop in music since I picked it up at age 17. During some years I did not touch my instrument for weeks if not a month. I did not believe in it anymore. In my late 20s I got to collaborate with some of my favourite metal musicians! It's all about finding a balance and knowing your strenghts, I'll never write like Williams and that's okay. We need to find our own voice.


----------



## Illico

Quit my day job, or not? I'm desperate


----------



## Mike Fox

Sorry about your Mom, and your girlfriend. That’s some tough shit right there.

But, dude. You’re 21. Life has barely even started for you. Please stop beating yourself up over not knowing theory and not being established yet. The kind of mental self torture you’re putting yourself through isn’t going to bring about anything positive. Trust me on that one. Also, you have so much fucking time left on your hands to figure shit out, so be thankful and happy about that!

I’m almost 40, and don’t know dick about music theory. I’ve relied on my ear my entire life, yet I’ve been able to write music that I’ve both been happy with and have made money off of. Anyone else can do that same.

So again, stop beating yourself up, and just focus on improving yourself as a composer. Get out there and try to meet as many people in the industry as you can. Networking is key. But also keep in mind that having a steady job, while looking for a gig in the industry is probably the most financially responsible way to go about this.

Just don’t forget that you are young, young, young, and have SO much time left to figure things out.

Good luck.


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## mholloway

You are 21 !!
Relax.
Keep pushing forward.


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## Chris Schmidt

I remember when I was 21 and every old guy was like "you're a baby, you have forever ahead of you" seems like it was only yesterday. I wish I'd spent that "forever" more wisely.

Anyway, you shouldn't quit, but you shouldn't dedicated your life to sitting in front of a screen banging on a MIDI controller either. Just find the balance, but take the craft seriously, and all will be well.

I dedicated pretty much all of my teen years and most of my 20s to music. I managed to even get paid for it sometimes, so I can relate to OP in the sense of feeling like "this is all that I am and what am I if I don't have this?" but it's definitely the wrong way of going about it. Not just with music, but "career paths" and jobs in general. It can cause you to sink into actual suicidal depression.

Basically: I would advise against identifying too strongly with any job that you do. Your job may say something about you, but it's not "who" you are. It's just what you're doing right now to try and survive the unending usury in the form of rent, insurance, property taxes mortgage, and soon — bags of moldy grains to eat and a new siphon hose and gas can.

Especially with the way that the last few years have gone, you should not be too terribly attached, emotionally, to your occupation as you may find yourself forced to leave it unexpectedly. 

Music is just one thing you do, but it's not all that you are and being paid for it doesn't really "validate" it/you.

A lot of the people being paid boatloads for it, kinda suck anyway. So don't sweat it. Just strive to make each new piece a little better than the last one, and in time, you'll find your audience.


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## Celestial Aeon

One more viewpoint regarding music vs. business:

I think it creates problems if one thinks that being a good musician / composer must lead to good income. That's not how it works at all. To make music work as a source of income requires totally different skillsets and another time investment on the side: marketing, connections, know-how regarding the current state of the business realm in which music plays a part, strategical thinking, optimising your production, thinking what is actually needed, how to produce what is needed no matter what your personal preference is and so on.

Often this is the realm that composers and musicians, being artists, hate and don't want to think about at all. They just want to create whatever they feel like and then hope that income would grow just by creating new music.

Just as an example: the only way I have managed to make my music production viable income source has been other skillsets and experience I've gathered outside my studio. I've had over 10 years of full time programming experience which gave me good understanding on how the internet businesses work and how to approach the modern day music streaming service possibilities and what makes them tick so to speak. I also never built myself a strong "artist identity". While I love music and creating music, for me it's not about "me" at all which gives me better chance in creating any style of music that is required no matter if it happens to be "my thing" or not. I've noticed that for some composers even if they'd get the chance to get income from creating something that is outside their comfort zone they rather pass and only look for opportunities that match with their own taste, which can be quite narrow realm.

In general I'd say that the more broad experience on has with all sorts of things outside of music creation, the better chances it yields to make the music work as a tool for business as well


----------



## Greeno

Chris Schmidt said:


> I remember when I was 21 and every old guy was like "you're a baby, you have forever ahead of you" seems like it was only yesterday. I wish I'd spent that "forever" more wisely.
> 
> Anyway, you shouldn't quit, but you shouldn't dedicated your life to sitting in front of a screen banging on a MIDI controller either. Just find the balance, but take the craft seriously, and all will be well.
> 
> I dedicated pretty much all of my teen years and most of my 20s to music. I managed to even get paid for it sometimes, so I can relate to OP in the sense of feeling like "this is all that I am and what am I if I don't have this?" but it's definitely the wrong way of going about it. Not just with music, but "career paths" and jobs in general. It can cause you to sink into actual suicidal depression.
> 
> Basically: I would advise against identifying too strongly with any job that you do. Your job may say something about you, but it's not "who" you are. It's just what you're doing right now to try and survive the unending usury in the form of rent, insurance, property taxes mortgage, and soon — bags of moldy grains to eat and a new siphon hose and gas can.
> 
> Especially with the way that the last few years have gone, you should not be too terribly attached, emotionally, to your occupation as you may find yourself forced to leave it unexpectedly.
> 
> Music is just one thing you do, but it's not all that you are and being paid for it doesn't really "validate" it/you.
> 
> A lot of the people being paid boatloads for it, kinda suck anyway. So don't sweat it. Just strive to make each new piece a little better than the last one, and in time, you'll find your audience.


Great advice !


----------



## Henu

Chris Schmidt said:


> I would advise against identifying too strongly with any job that you do. Your job may say something about you, but it's not "who" you are. It's just what you're doing right now...


I need to disagree with this sentence. I've been doing music for living for my whole adult life (I'm turning 44 this year), and it definitely identifies me very strongly since forever. If I would had taken it less seriously and with the attitude of "well, it pays the bills and a job is a job", I don't think I'd _ever_ got into where I am now. With that attitude, I'd still be sitting at home, banging a Korg workstation and wondering why nobody isn't knocking my door and asking me to score a movie. (No, I don't score movies nor am I a world-class composer but you get the idea.)

Taking this creative craft seriously (and remembering to take yourself less seriously) is extremely important if you actually want to have a sustaining career in music and commit to the live-long journey of learning and advancing your skills. Getting better in what we do should be the motor that drives us forward, and the better we become, the more opportunities will rise. That doesn't mean of course that it shouldn't be fun, but I personally don't believe in success and satisfying results without commitment.

Naturally though, this only applies if you want to make a career out of this all. There is absolutely nothing wrong with "side-job" composing, being a hobbyist or generally just doing something for fun every now or then. But if you actually want to make a sustainable long-term career out of this while enjoying it and developing your skills and brain every day, you need to commit to it.


----------



## daan1412

JohnG said:


> There is not enough time to compose it all by ear.


This one sentence sums it up perfectly. As a self-taught composer who doesn't know theory, I felt I hit a brick wall some time ago and this was basically the conclusion.

Music theory is a set of tools and there is a level at which you need these tools to gain pro-level efficiency (particularly when it comes to orchestral stuff). And efficiency is really the key word here. Of course, it's fine to make any kind of music totally by ear if it works for you and you're happy with the results. I started some online courses, but I wish I did it earlier, when I had much, much more free time to focus on learning.

Making music for a living is the biggest dream I've ever had. Sadly, I'm nowhere near reaching that goal. Composing as a hobbyist will always give me gratification and I'll never quit. But I have to tell you - with the clock ticking it's getting more and more depressing to think my dream could never come true. I still have hope, but it's tough.


----------



## Hoopyfrood

Lots of people have lots of good things to say, but I just wanted to chime in and comment that you clearly think music theory is going to be boring. I'm a relative newcomer to writing music, I dabbled in an ancient version of a DAW many years ago, but when the pandemic hit I needed something to occupy my lockdown hours so I bought FL Studio. I came in knowing next to nothing about theory and I too thought it would be boring to learn, but I actually found it fascinating, because the historical context is as interesting as the theory itself. (I'll caveat I'm self taught so some of the following might not be exactly right).

For example, if you know anything about theory you surely know that C is seen as the "default" note, middle C is the key we compare all other keys on the piano on, and in music notation on the standard double clef form, C can be either drawn as on the first implied line above the top line on the bass clef and the first implied line below the treble clef. But have you ever wondered why it's C not A? 

Well that's because in western music theory all the letter notes come from Ancient Greece, and originally there were only those seven notes. That meant that the only way of having any variation and the equivalent of writing in different keys was to take those same seven notes but start on a different starting note. Hence was born the concept of modes, which are still named after the Greek names. The first mode in ancient Greek music was the aeolian mode, so A B C D E F G. If you know anything else about music theory you'd know that that is the A natural minor scale. But then came the rise of the Catholic church, which was hugely influential in so much of early music theory, and the church wanted uplifting hymn type music. So over time, what used to be the third Greek mode, the Ionian mode, came to be seen as the "default" first mode. What's that mode? C D E F G A B. Yes, the C Major scale. 

Next, a lot of early music was monophonic and harmony wasn't really a thing. The earliest forms started with things like Gregorian chants, which introduced the concept of chanting the same thing a fourth up from the first voice. This introduced the necessity of adding a new note between A and B to ensure every mode harmonised properly, and rather than rename the notes, they called it a B flat. 

But that was still all the notes that existed for a long time, until more complex harmonies started being developed and people started intuiting that there must be more notes in between those notes. So over a period of about 450 years up until about 1450 gradually more of the accidentals were discovered, F# then Eb then C# then G#. It then took until about 1750 for people to realise that all of these notes, the black keys on a piano, can either be sharps or flats, so scales took over from modes as the way of changing key. But modes are still used today as a way of adding a more exotic flavour than just sticking to major or natural minor.

I keep saying natural minor. That's because there are three minor keys. The harmonic minor is the same as the natural minor but you raise the seventh degree, so A harmonic minor becomes A B C D E F G#. It was introduced because classical musicians were utterly obsessed with the V-I cadence, which is when you go from the fifth chord of your scale to the first chord. It was seen as pretty much the mandatory way to end a piece of music. But musicians used to writing in the major scale felt that the V-I using natural minor was weaker than the V-I using the major key. That's because of a concrpt known as voice leading. To use the scales we already looked at, the third of the V chord in A minor key is G and the root of the I chord is A, so that's a whole step apart. But in C major the third of the V chord is a B and the root of the I chord is a C, a half step. So the harmonic minor was invented purely to make it a half step instead. But that left a tone and a half gap between the sixth and seventh degree of the harmonic minor scale, which isn't ideal for writing melodies, so the melodic minor was invented, which also raises the sixth degree. But because that V-I voice leading is only needed when the scale is ascending, composers typically used the natural minor scale instead while descending.

As time went on people started being fancy and inventing modes for the harmonic minor and natural minor scales as well using the same concept as the ancient Greeks used, so every degree of those two scales also have named modes. 

If you stuck with me this far, I hope you can see that despite thinking I'd have no interest in music theory, by learning interesting bits of history I also learned what the major and three minor scales are, what a chord is, what voice leading is, what cadences are, how harmony functions, what modes are and how to use them, and what the less used and more exotic modes are. There's all sorts of other interesting things to discover too if you go into it with an open mind.


----------



## Roger Newton

Chris Schmidt said:


> I remember when I was 21 and every old guy was like "you're a baby, you have forever ahead of you" seems like it was only yesterday. I wish I'd spent that "forever" more wisely.


Don't worry. You won't be the only one. But believe it or not that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's borderline platitude stuff. I've met plenty and I mean plenty of old and wiser people than me over 7 decades and 90% of them were fucking stupid.

Went to the dentist yesterday for quarterly checkup and copped a new dentist. She and her female assistant had a combined age of 13 years younger than me.

Never had so much fun at the dentists for years.

You never want to worry about what 'older and wiser' people will keep telling you. The time you really need to get concerned is when 'younger and wiser' people are just that.


----------



## Chris Schmidt

Roger Newton said:


> She and her female assistant had a combined age of 13 years younger than me.
> 
> Never had so much fun at the dentists for years.


Oh man, let me tell you about the fun I had at the dentist last time I went and needed a wisdom tooth removed.

So the dentist was this hot blond girl to my surprise, and during the whole operation, she's resting her giant, right boob on my face and she's like "let me know if you feel this" and it was really hard to concentrate or know what I was supposed to be feeling because I was feeling a lot of things.

I definitely have never had that much fun at the dentist before.


----------



## Jotto

How do i quit this thread ? Jesus


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## Chris Schmidt

Jotto said:


> How do i quit this thread ? Jesus


Hello yes, this is Jesus.

Stop reading it.


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## Jotto

Chris Schmidt said:


> Hello yes, this is Jesus.
> 
> Stop reading it.


I have ignored it.. i have unwatched. It pops up every hour. Stop it!!


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## Trash Panda

Jotto said:


> I have ignored it.. i have unwatched. It pops up every hour. Stop it!!


Have you tried turning it off and on again?


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## Jotto

Trash Panda said:


> Have you tried turning it off and on again?


This is no critisism to the op, but i have no interest in this thread. I shall try to turn it off. Thank you


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## mybadmemory

Why quit something you enjoy? Music doesn’t have to be career, and a lifetime is more than enough for many different careers. 22 is nothing. I’m 39, have a career in design, but still do music just because I love it. If I ever was to actually score something one day I would surely enjoy that, and if not, I would still be happy for this seemingly life long hobby of mine.


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## szczaw

Yea, alright, just don't be that asshead, who doesn't know when to quit.


----------



## Roger Newton

Chris Schmidt said:


> So the dentist was this hot blond girl to my surprise, and during the whole operation, she's resting her giant, right boob on my face and she's like "let me know if you feel this" and it was really hard to concentrate or know what I was supposed to be feeling because I was feeling a lot of things.


You younger guys are just too easy. Not enough experience yet.


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## SchnookyPants

Chris Schmidt said:


> Oh man, let me tell you about the fun I had at the dentist last time I went and needed a wisdom tooth removed.
> 
> So the dentist was this hot blond girl to my surprise, and during the whole operation, she's resting her giant, right boob on my face and she's like "let me know if you feel this" and it was really hard to concentrate or know what I was supposed to be feeling because I was feeling a lot of things.
> 
> I definitely have never had that much fun at the dentist before.


What's the number for your dentist?


----------



## Bender-offender

😂


----------



## Bender-offender

Bender-offender said:


> 😂


🤦‍♂️


----------



## vitocorleone123

I forget his name off the top of my head, Alex?, but there’s someone who posts on YT that, if you go back to his initial videos, has lots of passion and little experience or money. I don’t follow him closely but watched a few videos and he’s also had ups and downs. But his skills, and the money he earned to pour into new libraries of sounds, has decidedly grown over the years.


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## ChrisHarrison

Bro, you’re so young. 

Junkie XL said he started writing big time at about 40 and he was the young guy in the room. 

Honestly, music as a career is really hard on the mind. I recommend finding meditation and joy and happiness outside music. Even if you made a zillion dollars with music, that’s doesn’t equal happiness. It just doesn’t. 

And if you’re just hungry for knowledge like I am, consider studying online. There’s looooots of people teaching great modern composing ideas online. Better than conservatory. Schools tend to be way behind on technology. No one in uni is teaching about Gulfass and soothe and stuff that just came out this year. 

Learning about harmony really happens for me by studying jazz piano. I’m a bass player, but the more I dig into those jazz tunes I see the possibilities within harmony. 

There’s a lot to learn from studying with a teacher for real. 

But, don’t give up dude. It’s okay to support yourself doing something else and keep grinding. 

Mentorship is where it’s at. Find people that do what you love and be a sponge.


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## bunjaonkvr

The problem here is not whether your good enough , because your defo a musician whether you think you are or not , 

no confidence will hold you back, im 42 and done nothing with my life so far and because of that i was thinking i was too old when i was 30 !!!

and while i can noodle on the piano and have some understanding of music theroy if i done a little every now and then i could have been amazing by now.

your 20 something man , by 33 you could be brilliant , that avici guy didnt play duck all and learnt eveything in two years , how did he do it ? He wasnt holding himself back negativily , 


thank you for your post because its made me realise , you have to do the things you enjoy cut out the shit you dont 

or if you need theroy etc do it a little on the side in ten years man youll be awesome , this is the killer catastrophic thinking like ,”oh no bro if i dont do this soon i cant live i wont make it ill have to work down the mines again or in a shitty warehouse.

stop thinking like that work in the shitty job , while slowly over the years getting better and better , 

this is why most people give shit up they want over night success and skills and it just doesnt fucking happen like that , 

be positive you have music out i have only old acoustic songs of me singing as i scrapped everything else 


i have been my old worst enemy and at 42 my talent is almost wasted , wait should i be thinking like that get out of my head negative voixce , u see what i mean its comparing yourself to others thata stopping you bud.


----------



## Pier

bunjaonkvr said:


> and at 42 my talent is almost wasted


No, it's not.

If that's what you want, don't give up. There are plenty of working composers/musicians writing in their 60s and 70s.


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## bunjaonkvr

Pier said:


> No, it's not.
> 
> If that's what you want, don't give up. There are plenty of working composers/musicians writing in their 60s and 70s.


Thank u pal means a lot


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## TheCrucifix

bunjaonkvr said:


> Thank u pal means a lot


Yes, I also heard that many people start composing quite late. For example, if we're talking piano, then it's incredibly difficult to become a virtuoso there if you haven't been trained since early childhood, because it's a physical skill, almost like learning to walk. Children are easily taught such things, and therefore on YouTube you can mostly see 8-year-old Koreans playing the piano brilliantly.

However, as I realized from my own experience and the experience of other people, composing is a completely different process. Composing is to some extent a conscious process, and it requires not only musical experience, but also life experience. At least you have to put something into your music, and many children, for example, are not interested in such "high matters".

At first I was afraid that the older I get, the harder it will be for me to study, but now every year (although I'm only 21, lol) I feel that it is easier for me to learn something, because in life many things are similar to each other, and experience in some areas can help solve a problem in another area, or learn something

Well, it's like polyglots when they learn languages. The first 3 languages are difficult, and then you realize that they all have something in common, you create similar principles or associations. I think that all life experience works the same way, and therefore, the older you are, the more base you have to start doing such "complex" things as composing.

And never think that "it's too late." In fact, one of the reasons I wrote the original post was that at the age of 11 I was diagnosed with cancer, and I did not expect to live even to the age of 18. Everything went well, but the fear of dying or not having time remained. In the end, I came to the idea that: "I'd rather have time to do at least something in this life than not do anything."

You can live to be 70, and I will die at 23, but in fact we will both do something if we do what we like, and this is the most important thing. In order to be like those who do really great things (or be them), sometimes you need to spit on everything and do what you like, trying to maintain literacy, and learning from other people to better express what you want.


----------



## bunjaonkvr

TheCrucifix said:


> Yes, I also heard that many people start composing quite late. For example, if we're talking piano, then it's incredibly difficult to become a virtuoso there if you haven't been trained since early childhood, because it's a physical skill, almost like learning to walk. Children are easily taught such things, and therefore on YouTube you can mostly see 8-year-old Koreans playing the piano brilliantly.
> 
> However, as I realized from my own experience and the experience of other people, composing is a completely different process. Composing is to some extent a conscious process, and it requires not only musical experience, but also life experience. At least you have to put something into your music, and many children, for example, are not interested in such "high matters".
> 
> At first I was afraid that the older I get, the harder it will be for me to study, but now every year (although I'm only 21, lol) I feel that it is easier for me to learn something, because in life many things are similar to each other, and experience in some areas can help solve a problem in another area, or learn something
> 
> Well, it's like polyglots when they learn languages. The first 3 languages are difficult, and then you realize that they all have something in common, you create similar principles or associations. I think that all life experience works the same way, and therefore, the older you are, the more base you have to start doing such "complex" things as composing.
> 
> And never think that "it's too late." In fact, one of the reasons I wrote the original post was that at the age of 11 I was diagnosed with cancer, and I did not expect to live even to the age of 18. Everything went well, but the fear of dying or not having time remained. In the end, I came to the idea that: "I'd rather have time to do at least something in this life than not do anything."
> 
> You can live to be 70, and I will die at 23, but in fact we will both do something if we do what we like, and this is the most important thing. In order to be like those who do really great things (or be them), sometimes you need to spit on everything and do what you like, trying to maintain literacy, and learning from other people to better express what you want.


yeah thanks pal really appreciate it we need to just start enjoying it now forget what other people do and think , 
and i think being a concert pianist is not the level you need to be. 

an understanding of some chords and progressions , 
noodle about and play slower it doesn't matter. 

you dont even have to learn other peoples songs just analyze them,

break down the chords use them yourself , there's other ways than what people say is the way we have to follow , 

you can still make great songs and we have computers these days to be a concert pianist for me would send me clinically to the hospital anyway,

too much time i would need in isolation little and often is the best remedy to get good i think , better than none.


----------



## AlterNate

Hey buddy.

I feel your pain. But, even though this sounds like a bullshit thing to say, don't give up!

I was 21 when I started composing. I can't even call that composing since I was rather learning that beautiful world of sequencers, plugins and sample libraries. And it was fun, really fun, because I didn't know what I was doing. Tried this, tried that - oooh, a sound. Wow, what does sustains mean? Oh okay, I know now.
Spiccato, marcato, pizzicato - I didn't know anything regarding orchestra, I didn't even know how to zoom in Cubase. Really, I had to Google that stuff.

But, one step at the time and by spending 10 hours a day "composing" (if you may call that composing in the early days) I became better. I still didn't know business side of things, but I was better. I knew that because I A\B my first tracks and new ones and you could clearly hear the difference.

But I didn't have money. And I was also from a country that has poor standards and low wages. I could either work at some crappy job I hate for almost 400 euros a month or I could really go into this music business, learn more about it, grind for a few more years and hopefully I can make some money so I can do this forever.

I don't want to bore you with my story, but fast-forward now to over a decade, I am 32 years old and I have had such an amazing experiences and I'm blessed to call this my career. 
I've first discovered trailer music. Worked with one of the biggest publishers out there. You name them, I've probably worked for them. Had my music in movie trailers and TV spots like: Spiderman, Dr. Strange, Quiet Place 2, Arcane, Game of Thrones, Blair Witch, Diablo IV, Meg, Jurassic World, Pirates of the Caribbean 5, Star Wars: Rogue One, The Mummy, Conjuring 2, Alien: Resurrection, Pacific Rim 2, Annihilation, Logan, First Man, The Nun, Raised By Wolves, Walking Dead, Madden NFL and these are just from the top of my head.

Then I've discovered TV music (it is usually the other way around, you go for TV and then maybe for trailers, but everything in my life goes "differently") and I've had my music in over 700 TV shows, advertisements, themes, jingles, commercials etc.

And now I even have my own publishing agency that had work released from over 75 composers all around the world.

My music was used for BBC, Disney, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Paramount+, Eurosport, NFL, NBC, FOX, ESPN, CBS etc.

Remeber, when I was 21, I didn't know how to zoom in and out in my DAW, let alone music theory. The only music theory I knew was when I played guitar in my band - very badly, if I may say so.

So, I think "Don't give up!" is not such a bullshit sentence anymore. Because, if I gave up when it was hard - and trust me, there were months when it was REALLY HARD - I wouldn't have been blessed to have the career I've had so far. 
You are still young, you've started waaay younger than me. If you give up now, don't regret it in 10 years. A decade is such a long time, people achieve wonders in many less years than a decade. If you feel it in your stomach, if you can't live without creating music... then this, my friend, is what you've been put on this Earth to do.

Never give up, learn and create each day so when that chance comes - and it will come - you will take it and achieve many things you've never even dreamed of achieving!


----------



## daviniasiles

When I was younger I like to study the Russian culture, I started to study Russian too, I was doing quite well actually but I was always ill, so I have to quit the classes. I have concentration and hyperactivity problems, plus my autism, plus chronic depression and anxiety + several physically health issues. I fall in all my goals and I tried to suicide several times. Fortunately, I discover it was possible with the current technology to write music without learning music too well. I learnt during the Covid-19 quarantine, for me it has been therapeutic. I am near 42 years old.

The problem of the Russian culture it is when you have 20 years old you are a man, however in my country, Spain, you are a “big baby”. I live in United Kingdom, here with 18 years old the sons/daughters going to live with friends and look for a job of waiter or shop assistant… and they save money for future studies. In Spain you can find retire people studying philosophy or history degree. I have a friend it is going to start the Medicine degree (8 years minimum!) , she is 48 years old, she is married, with one daughter and works as shop assistant in a fruit shop.

Other problem I see is Russia has a very strong tradition of classical music and ballet, so very probably not finishing the Music Conservatory is not acceptable. Here, in United Kingdom, there are so many iconic artists in all genres in 20/21 century that everything is acceptable, they are very open-minded.

As much as you know it is always better. But I do not think it is all lost for you in Russia. I have listeners in Apple Music in Russia, they like my Bach and Pachelbel arrangements! I made a lot of changes in the original music sheets, and sometimes I am doing things which “big labels” never would allow it like in the second part of my Bach’s prelude. Nobody do that, you love it or hate it  . But I do not want to study too much music theory because I think it can kill my creativity.


----------



## P3TAAL

TheCrucifix said:


> Hello, this is going to be a very big post, so get ready. To be honest, I'm already ashamed of him, but I have to write this.
> 
> I am 21 years old, and I am writing here out of desperation. Now I am closer than ever to quitting music, and I need the advice of experienced people.
> 
> But first I will introduce myself: I am from Russia, from a rather poor family. From the "musical background" only singing in the church choir (7 years in a row) By education, information security, but I don't like this profession at all, so I got a diploma and forgot about it.
> Around the age of 18, I suddenly realized that insanely much, I want to write music for video games and movies. I was absolutely amazed at how music can immerse you in a fictional universe, and what kind of context it can create. That was the first time I heard the orchestral soundtrack to Dark Souls 3 from the author Yuka Kitamura, and I thought I wanted the same. After that, I listened to the Frenchman Carpenter Brut, and realized that I also wanted to write electronic music, as a result of which I began to mix electronic and orchestral music, because I absolutely could not decide what I liked more. Also, then (and now) I really liked the music from the anime "Angel's Egg" by Yoshihiro Kanno. The main theme of this anime has an incredibly melancholic gamut, which has inspired me not once.
> 
> As a result, I started writing. A lot of writing. Sometimes, for 18 hours a day, just because nothing else interested me. At some point, it even became hard for me to listen to someone else's music, simply because it caused me an incredible desire to sit down and start writing. "I want to write the same way" - constantly sounds in my head. In general, almost everything I have, I wrote under great inspiration, inuitively, exclusively by ear. I've studied mixing, mastering, and I think I'm not bad at it, but there's another problem..
> 
> A HUGE problem. Unfortunately, I just hate music theory. At the age of 16, I dropped out of the first year of music school (which I miraculously entered) because solfeggio and piano playing were something completely counterintuitive for me. Yes, I don't know how to play any instrument at all, and I don't know 99% of music theory. No matter how much I try, I only have an aversion to studying these things. I've always just wanted to write music from the soul.
> 
> And you know, now I'm somewhere on the verge of giving it up, because I feel like an amateur. Since childhood, I have heard from everyone, and especially from my mother, that: without music theory, you are nobody, and you can't do anything. I watch interviews with composers I like, and they all graduated from the conservatory, and I don't even know how to read sheet music. Each of them masterfully plays the piano, violin, and 1000 other instruments, and I just... I'm just putting the bricks on the virtual panel. And unfortunately, I have absolutely no way to evaluate it. It sounds exactly the way I want it, but I do not know if I want it right. Besides, it probably sounds dead, because these are mostly not real instruments, but ordinary VST
> 
> To be honest, I do not know what I will do if I quit music. "Composing" (a big word) has always been a therapy, a goal and a dream for me. I solved every problem in my life with music. I remember when I was 20, my mother was dying in the hospital, my girlfriend left me after 5 years of a relationship, and they almost expelled me from college. That day I thought: well, that's it, it's time to die.
> Of course, it was scary, so "before I died" I decided to launch a game that I had recently downloaded. It was called Ender Lilies. In the game menu there was a little girl in the rain, and "Ender Lilies - Main Theme" was playing. At that moment I started crying like a baby. I can say for sure that I have never cried like this in my life. As a result, I sat down and wrote 10 soundtracks in a day.
> 
> Naturally, I wrote it by ear. It was pretty simple music, because I didn't have any experience at all then, but I put everything I had into it, and probably that's the only reason I didn't jump off the roof that day. I'll attach this album here if anyone is interested, but in fact there is absolutely nothing special about it. The album tells the story of a child who walks through a country infected with the "magic plague" and looks at the horror that is happening in it.
> 
> 
> Less than a year has passed since that moment. I've raised my level a lot, I've learned a lot of things, but not music theory. As soon as I plunge into the world of these "frets, steps, intervals", I immediately lose all interest in composing. As my last (and probably best) work, I will attach this one:
> 
> In my music, I try to mix the pathos and Gothic grandeur of Dark Souls music with the aggressive electronic style of Carpenter Brut, and partly metal.
> 
> However, what is the point of all this? Do you know the feeling when you think you don't know something that everyone else around knows? I will ask for a job somewhere, and they will say to me: no, my friend, you did not graduate from the conservatory. Does it work like this? Or maybe I have a chance? Or maybe my music is just completely hopeless?
> 
> To be honest, I'm desperate, because I'm almost 22 years old, and I have to decide exactly what to do next in this life, so as not to waste time in vain. I really like to write music, in any genre, for anything, as long as it has a plot or purpose. But maybe there's nothing waiting for me in this, with this approach? I doubt that I will ever master solfeggio
> 
> In general, I'm asking you for a simple piece of advice. It is clear that the final decision remains with me, and in fact I am almost sure that I will NEVER stop writing. However, I want to know your opinion, guys. To hear about it from someone who is just more experienced. Maybe find a teacher (?)I'm sure I'm not the first one, so there will be a solution for me too
> 
> Thank you, it's important to me. And sorry for the bad English, I don't know it very well yet
> 
> UPD: There are so many good people on this forum. Thank you guys, you gave me an invaluable opinion and dispelled my doubts. I am very glad that I came here



When I was your age many many years ago! I told a friend I was going to give up music, he said what's the point of that.....I couldn't answer him because he was right. What was the point of giving up somthing I really like doing. Good luck to you


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## BVMusic

c0nsilience said:


> @TheCrucifix To echo what others have said in this post: keep on keeping on. Music is the universal language of life. It adds so much meaning for those creating it as well as those that are just enjoying it. Don't give up on it and don't give up on yourself.
> 
> Life is made up of peaks and valleys. All of us experience this, no matter what our background or circumstances. The struggle is part of the beauty, and not just for contrast, but because it is a part of life. It's universal to the human experience. Everything that you go through, makes you, you, which is a wealth of material to draw from. With talent and practice, you can harness this for others to see the world through your perspective. There's a tremendous amount of satisfaction to be gained from making someone's day, week, month, or life, just a little bit brighter than it was before they encountered you. In fact, I haven't found much of anything else that is truly more satisfying.
> 
> Continue to inspire the world with your art and don't worry about the self-doubt. That's part of it and will keep you humble and grounded when you ascend the peak! 🙂


beautiful inspiring reply


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