# Any reason why I shouldn't buy a Mac Mini with a 256gb internal SSD?



## el-bo (Jun 14, 2022)

I'm looking for a show-stopper i.e some reason I've yet to consider.

Clearly, having more space is more convenient. And for laptops that argument makes even more sense (I've had 3tb internal SSD storage in my curren, outgoing, laptop), as one wants to be able to have all their content with them, and not have to contend with external drives occupying the few ports on offer.

But in the case of a desktop there are more ports, and it's less of an issue having multiple hubs attached. Not only that, but it seems that all sample content can be stored externally. Used to be that Logic Pro's sample content had to be kept on the internal drive, but that's not been the case for some years.

Even taking into account the two partitions I want to run, and keeping a handful of 'current' projects internally (Gotta leverage that sweet internal speed for loading bigger projects  ), I can’t see not being able to have 100 - 150gb free for any other eventuality.

Of course, I'll have to keep a pretty streamlined workflow when it comes to organising and archiving. But that seems like a positive to me.

So, is there anything I’ve not considered?


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## Jrides (Jun 14, 2022)

I have encountered quite a number of people who have had issues with external drives on that system. That’s what kept me from getting one in part. However everyone doesn’t seem to have this issue.


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## rnb_2 (Jun 14, 2022)

Toward the end of my 2018 mini's service, I found it very hard to live within 256GB, even with keeping all of the big stuff on externals. Not saying it can't be done, but it takes active management - honestly, even 512GB eventually got that way (though not as bad, of course). If you keep things very limited, I'm sure it can be done, though. Given the hoops you've jumped through to keep your current machine running, I'm sure you can find a way to manage it.

Regarding partitions, be aware that APFS treats things differently - you create volumes within a container, and they can all share space dynamically. The OS will automatically be in a separate, read-only volume, then everything you install will occupy a Data volume. You can add other volumes to that, and while you can limit their size (I like to do this with a separate volume for the Photos library), you don't have to.


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## Saxer (Jun 14, 2022)

All plugins and programs are hosted on the system drive. Logic, Dorico, Final Cut... each of them one to two GB. Sampler can mostly place their samples on externals but the plugins itself including graphics and presets and convolution samples and every sampler like Sine and all the companies downloader apps etc are located on the internal. Also when updating the OS or other bigger programs the download is on the system drive and needs twice the space. That sums up easily. 1GB internal SSD makes the life more relaxed.


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## Justin L. Franks (Jun 14, 2022)

256 GB would be tough to deal with. I'd consider 512 GB to be the _absolute_ minimum to ensure enough space for swap, updates, and keeping the overall used space low enough to maintain performance (SSD write speeds get slower as they approach full capacity). 1 TB is even better, but you can get by with 512 GB.


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## wayne_rowley (Jun 14, 2022)

Don’t know if they‘ve fixed it, but Native Access insists on downloading libraries to the System Drive, even if they are to be stored on an external. I had great trouble creating enough free space to install some Cinesample libraries on my 256GB Mini for this reason. It’s the one thing I regret about my 2018 Mini. Get a bigger drive!


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## el-bo (Jun 14, 2022)

Jrides said:


> I have encountered quite a number of people who have had issues with external drives on that system. That’s what kept me from getting one in part. However everyone doesn’t seem to have this issue.


It's true. And the thought of going from one struggling computer situation, to jump into more potential problems is honestly filling me with dread.

But there has to be a pattern. Unless, we're to conclude that quality control is so bad on these machines that it's really just the 'luck of the draw', then there must to be some commonalities between the setups/workflows/use-cases between those that and those that don't.


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## el-bo (Jun 14, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Toward the end of my 2018 mini's service, I found it very hard to live within 256GB, even with keeping all of the big stuff on externals. Not saying it can't be done, but it takes active management - honestly, even 512GB eventually got that way (though not as bad, of course). If you keep things very limited, I'm sure it can be done, though. Given the hoops you've jumped through to keep your current machine running, I'm sure you can find a way to manage it.


Haha! Yeah...That's been going on for about 3 years, at this point. But within the last few weeks, I lost (Perhaps I should say, accidentally killed) one of the fans, during what has now become a six-monthly ritual of re-applying thermal-paste (Should be holding for much longer than that). Now temperatures have become even crazier, and the computer has become more unstable (Although it's been better this last week). 

I had intended to use it until it died completely. However, now that I'm going to try to make a concerted effort to get my hands onto certain platforms, I need something a lot more stable. Moreover, I decided it made more sense to conserve this in its current state as a backup, should I find myself in a postion where Im without a computer e.g repairs etc.



rnb_2 said:


> Regarding partitions, be aware that APFS treats things differently - you create volumes within a container, and they can all share space dynamically. The OS will automatically be in a separate, read-only volume, then everything you install will occupy a Data volume. You can add other volumes to that, and while you can limit their size (I like to do this with a separate volume for the Photos library), you don't have to.


Actually, that's even better. I'd accounted for two separate amounts of OS install data. But indeed...part of my idea for the testing/demo partition would be to heavily restrict the space. Again, I'm looking to force myself into a strict house-keeping workflow, so that I don't end up where I am now, with many terabytes full of digital detritus


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## davidson (Jun 14, 2022)

My m1 mini was 256gb (I bought it as a temporary emergency thing and was a great price, so...) and it was a nightmare to live with a drive that size. I couldnt have everything installed which I wanted to (logics included content for example). Big mistake which I'll never make again. I went for 1tb in my new mac used purely for music, and I'm using 280gb on my internal so far. I have pretty much everything I can on external drives, but I'm still at that amount. Maybe I need to buy less plugs


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## el-bo (Jun 14, 2022)

Saxer said:


> All plugins and programs are hosted on the system drive. Logic, Dorico, Final Cut... each of them one to two GB. Sampler can mostly place their samples on externals but the plugins itself including graphics and presets and convolution samples and every sampler like Sine and all the companies downloader apps etc are located on the internal. Also when updating the OS or other bigger programs the download is on the system drive and needs twice the space. That sums up easily. 1GB internal SSD makes the life more relaxed.


In an ideal world, I'd definitely get much more space. But I'm limited to a certain budget, which needs to include certain other bits of hardware and software. I actually started out with the intention to get 1tb, but it's a difference of 800-ish Euros. If I can save that by incorporating tight work practices, then I'm happy to do it.

When you say that samplers can mostly place their samples on external drives, what do you mean by mostly? Can you think of any particular library of samples that can't? That's not a trick question. It's exactly these types of gotchas that I started this thread to discover.


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## el-bo (Jun 14, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> 256 GB would be tough to deal with. I'd consider 512 GB to be the _absolute_ minimum to ensure enough space for swap, updates, and keeping the overall used space low enough to maintain performance (SSD write speeds get slower as they approach full capacity). 1 TB is even better, but you can get by with 512 GB.


Of course, my first thought when scaling down from the idea of 1tb was to settle at 512. And it may end up being where I eventually land. This thread is very much about the "what if" of the options.

For reference, I currently have 50tb free of a 2TB internal drive (I used to have 3tb of internal space, but the connection to the caddy died at one point), so I'm no stranger to the idea of seemingly-boundless drives easily being filled up.

I don't intend to get to full capacity. In fact, I'm struggling to see myself not being able to maintain a good clear 100gb in free-space. But again, that's why i started the thread - to get an idea whether that's a possibility.


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## el-bo (Jun 14, 2022)

wayne_rowley said:


> Don’t know if they‘ve fixed it, but Native Access insists on downloading libraries to the System Drive, even if they are to be stored on an external. I had great trouble creating enough free space to install some Cinesample libraries on my 256GB Mini for this reason. It’s the one thing I regret about my 2018 Mini. Get a bigger drive!


Yeah...Been looking into this, in another thread. It seems like a workable situation is to have a bootable external drive, with enough space (I have a 2tb drive that could do just that) to do the downloading. From there, it would just involve the extra steps of copying over the library to the dedicated library drive, and pointing Native Access to that drive.


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## Saxer (Jun 14, 2022)

el-bo said:


> When you say that samplers can mostly place their samples on external drives, what do you mean by mostly? Can you think of any particular library of samples that can't? That's not a trick question. It's exactly these types of gotchas that I started this thread to discover.


I don't know exactly if it's the case any more but Addictive Drums had to have it's libraries on the system drive. Most synth plugins that contain sampled waveforms are on the system as well (except Spectrasonics). Logics Auto Sampler samples on the system drive. You can move it from there but the sampling process ends on the internal. As far as I know all convolution reverbs store their room samples on the system drive. 256GB systems are ok for Mail and Word and Facebook users.
I see the problem of 800,- difference in price but I'd better wait with buying other components than taking the one-way street without turning possibility.


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## el-bo (Jun 14, 2022)

davidson said:


> My m1 mini was 256gb (I bought it as a temporary emergency thing and was a great price, so...) and it was a nightmare to live with a drive that size. I couldnt have everything installed which I wanted to (logics included content for example). Big mistake which I'll never make again. I went for 1tb in my new mac used purely for music, and I'm using 280gb on my internal so far. I have pretty much everything I can on external drives, but I'm still at that amount. Maybe I need to buy less plugs


It's been some years now since Logic's included content has been able to be installed on external drives. And as far as I can tell, there's no other sampled instrument that stipulates internal drive install for the sample content.

But seeing as you've lived it, I'd be curious to drill down to how you were using the smaller capacity. 

Aside from the 60-70g of Logic data (Again, I'm pretty sure none of that now needs to be internally stored), were you storing photos, iTunes library, video files? Did you have many project files stored internally? Were you storing loose sample-content i.e Loops, one-shots etc.?

Allowing 8gb? for MacOS and 1gb? for Logic Pro, just what was it that had you blowing through the other 240 or-so gigs? (Not being combative, just inquisitive  )


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## Saxer (Jun 14, 2022)

el-bo said:


> For reference, I currently have 50tb free of a 2TB internal drive (I used to have 3tb of internal space, but the connection to the caddy died at one point), so I'm no stranger to the idea of seemingly-boundless drives easily being filled up.


Try to get your current system drive down to 200GB just as a test. Maybe it works for you.

btw: I read somewhere that the M1/M2 Macs can only start from their internal drive and not from external SSDs. I don't know if it's true. Does anyone know?


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## el-bo (Jun 15, 2022)

Saxer said:


> I don't know exactly if it's the case any more but Addictive Drums had to have it's libraries on the system drive. Most synth plugins that contain sampled waveforms are on the system as well (except Spectrasonics). As far as I know all convolution reverbs store their room samples on the system drive. 256GB systems are ok for Mail and Word and Facebook users.


Apple's own convolution library comes in at just over 1.8gb. I do have a handful of responses that I'd add to that, but I'm not interested in having tons of IR's. I also don't see my use of sampled waveforms being excessive. But I'd need to see numbers.

Part of me keeping this old computer as a backup should perhaps involve one last fresh install. I guess it wouldn't be wasted time, as I could use migration assistant to transfer it over. At least that way, I could get an idea of what my current 'core' install would look like.

Also, I sold Addictive Drums many years ago 



Saxer said:


> I see the problem of 800,- difference in price but I'd better wait with buying other components than taking the one-way street without turning possibility.


Makes perfect sense. However, I shouldn't even have this money at all.

I've been unemployed for some years now, and things got to a point where I was selling software to get by. This chunk of money has been given to me, in lieu of what may work out to be about a decade worth of combined Birthday/Xmas presents. Even then, it was only offered on the proviso that I put in everything I have to try and sell my music online**

The original plan was to spend 1500 Euros on the Mini, with 1TB SSD and 16g RAM (Yes! They really are that price, in Europe), and the remaining 1000 Euros would be for an audio interface, a microphone and software. My thought to reduce the Mac price to 800 Euros (approximation of cost of a reconditioned model (16gb RaM, 256GB SSD) was about providing myself with some amount of financial buffer that I don't end up selling beloved instruments such as Repro (Something I unfortunately ended up doing, a couple of weeks before my parents kindly gave me this money).

I'm not going into this with a fixed-mind. I know that somewhere between the idea of 256GB only being enough for email and FaceBook and my idea that I reckon it's easily doable, is the truth. It may indeed mean that I acquiesce, in favour of 512GB. It'd certainly make it easier to find a reconditioned model (As we can see, the kinds of people that need 16GB RAM don't seem to be the same kinds of people that are gonna be happy with 256GB drives  )

Anyway...Been sitting on this money for over a week, now. Too nervous to do anything with it :(








**Yeah...I get that the market is saturated, and chances of making any money are low. I may not even have the chops to do it. But currently, I can't think of anything better to do than put all my effort into trying.


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## el-bo (Jun 15, 2022)

Saxer said:


> Try to get your current system drive down to 200GB just as a test. Maybe it works for you.


I think that's the only way I'm going to get any real idea. Will start the new install today.

Just hope 'The little computer that could" actually CAN make it through the process 

Who ever said that Macbooks had bad airflow 



















Saxer said:


> btw: I read somewhere that the M1/M2 Macs can only start from their internal drive and not from external SSDs. I don't know if it's true. Does anyone know?


Really! I thought the issue was that clones could no longer be made, but that bootable drives could still work. This could definitely be a problem :(


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## el-bo (Jun 15, 2022)

Saxer said:


> btw: I read somewhere that the M1/M2 Macs can only start from their internal drive and not from external SSDs. I don't know if it's true. Does anyone know?


Just an update. It seems it can work...sometimes. And even when it does, it's not as simple as it used to be with Intel:






Boot from external disk on M1 Mac - Apple Community







discussions.apple.com





That's pretty effed up. It essentially means that even if I could manage to get by on an ultra low-capacity drive, i might have to spend the extra just to deal with NI's NA nonsense :(


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## MartinH. (Jun 15, 2022)

Just for fun, look at what kind of pc notebook you could get for your budget .


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## el-bo (Jun 15, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Just for fun, look at what kind of pc notebook you could get for your budget .


It's not the worst idea in the world. I'm pretty OS/DAW agnostic. But it wouldn't come without issues.

*Pros:*

- Performance/cost ratio (*Edited*: Actually, having given it some thought, I now disagree with this. At least when it comes to this M1 market entry-point, i think the benefits/performance/cost ration goes to Apple 

- Software compatibility. Currently stand to lose RX8, Equator 1, Omnisphere 1.6 and 2CB2, in the move to Apple Silicon

*Cons:*

- Lose access to Logic and 15 years' worth of projects.

- Lose access to the external trackpad, which is essential for me.

- Would have to buy and learn a new DAW. Not totally opposed to the idea,. Despite having owned Logic for so long, my chops are shit 

- Not sure how well Windows interfaces with iPad and iOS, but I doubt it'll offer anywhere near the same experience as I'm hoping for between a newer Mac and my iPad

- Not currently interested in a laptop, though I'd use it if there were no other choice. A full-blown desktop is out of the question.

- Most importantly, I'd lose the sense of superiority I get as a Mac user. Helps me through my darker moments, of which there're many


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## MartinH. (Jun 15, 2022)

el-bo said:


> - Most importantly, I'd lose the sense of superiority I get as a Mac user. Helps me through my darker moments, of which there're many


I know the perfect answer for you - Hackintosh! You get the hardware cost/performance ratio of a PC, the software of a Mac and a sense of superiority that is truely deserved because it's way harder to build and maintain such a system. 

In all seriousness, I understand your reasoning, I probably wouldn't switch in your situation either.


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## davidson (Jun 15, 2022)

el-bo said:


> Allowing 8gb? for MacOS and 1gb? for Logic Pro, just what was it that had you blowing through the other 240 or-so gigs? (Not being combative, just inquisitive  )


That's a good question. When I get to boot it up I'll have a look through. On my new mac, the audio > plugins folder is around 26gb and that's without any non-native plugins installed, so it will have been bigger on the mini. I did have a few dozen logic projects on there too but they were just new projects I'd started on that mini. Lots of other third party music software such as arcade, loopcloud, mpc, melodics etc but again, I would always point to my external drive for storage where possible. I do remember bassmaster and khords by loopmasters wouldn't let you install their expansion libraries on an external which was frustrating. I owned all the expansions too so things like that add up.

Applications on my new mac is around 25gb. Nothing non-music related installed apart from osx essentials like mail and messages. They'll have added a fair few gb of needed space in 'library > *' with their archives downloaded. Also bear in mind you only get around 200gb of space with a clean install of big sur. I think monterey is a little better in that regard.


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## el-bo (Jun 15, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I know the perfect answer for you - Hackintosh! You get the hardware cost/performance ratio of a PC, the software of a Mac and a sense of superiority that is truely deserved because it's way harder to build and maintain such a system.
> 
> In all seriousness, I understand your reasoning, I probably wouldn't switch in your situation either.


I did end up going back to edit my post. You did get me thinking about it, though


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## el-bo (Jun 15, 2022)

davidson said:


> That's a good question. When I get to boot it up I'll have a look through. On my new mac, the audio > plugins folder is around 26gb and that's without any non-native plugins installed, so it will have been bigger on the mini. I did have a few dozen logic projects on there too but they were just new projects I'd started on that mini. Lots of other third party music software such as arcade, loopcloud, mpc, melodics etc but again, I would always point to my external drive for storage where possible. I do remember bassmaster and khords by loopmasters wouldn't let you install their expansion libraries on an external which was frustrating. I owned all the expansions too so things like that add up.
> 
> Applications on my new mac is around 25gb. Nothing non-music related installed apart from osx essentials like mail and messages. They'll have added a fair few gb of needed space in 'library > *' with their archives downloaded. Also bear in mind you only get around 200gb of space with a clean install of big sur. I think monterey is a little better in that regard.


Thanks! 

I think that in the end, I could do it. More than that, I could even manage to compose all the music I want with 8gb of memory (There's definitely more than a little part of me that wants to give it a go). And if I wasn't looking to considerably increase my amount of music-making time, I'd probably just settle for the cheapest thing I could get. Would certainly be more befitting of my current life status.

But alas...

I think 512/16 is going to be the inevitable sweet-spot.

I'd be curious to know your stats, but don't go to any great lengths. I'm convinced that we expand to fill the space we have, and that unless someone is being conscious about adopting an extremely minimalist approach, things probably just end up mounting up pretty quickly.


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## davidson (Jun 15, 2022)

el-bo said:


> I'd be curious to know your stats, but don't go to any great lengths. I'm convinced that we expand to fill the space we have, and that unless someone is being conscious about adopting an extremely minimalist approach, things probably just end up mounting up pretty quickly.


Honestly, I tried to be as light weight as possible, I was like you and thought I could make do with the 256 drive to save some cash. I was shocked one day to get a notification saying I didn't have enough space to download some tiny 3 or 4 gb file. The space just disappears. You can free some the first few times it happens by getting even more thrifty with what you have on your system, but you soon come to a point where the drives like 'nahhh'.


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## rnb_2 (Jun 15, 2022)

el-bo said:


> I think 512/16 is going to be the inevitable sweet-spot.


I would agree with this - it's what my M1 mini had, and it was workable. I had a bunch of other, work-related stuff installed (Adobe stuff, etc) that took up some space, but music stuff still ended up requiring some juggling, just because of some things defaulting to the internal on install, even if they are movable after the fact.

Keep an eye on eBay - you should be able to grab that config for a lot less than Apple's price, and the UK refurb store doesn't seem to have much available in the way of upgraded minis at the moment.


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## LinusW (Jun 15, 2022)

My system SSD is around 550 GB after installing apps and plugins. No sound libraries, documents or Dropbox folders or anything.


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## LinusW (Jun 15, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I know the perfect answer for you - Hackintosh!


No. I let the Hackintosh go during the pandemic. Intel Macs are reaching end of support. An Apple Silicon Mac mini does a good job, but 256 GB calls for priority issues in storage.


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## MartinH. (Jun 15, 2022)

LinusW said:


> No. I let the Hackintosh go during the pandemic. Intel Macs are reaching end of support. An Apple Silicon Mac mini does a good job, but 256 GB calls for priority issues in storage.


I was actually just joking, but thanks for clarifying. I'm sure this info is helpful to people seriously considering a hackintosh.


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## el-bo (Jun 16, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> I would agree with this - it's what my M1 mini had, and it was workable. I had a bunch of other, work-related stuff installed (Adobe stuff, etc) that took up some space, but music stuff still ended up requiring some juggling, just because of some things defaulting to the internal on install, even if they are movable after the fact.
> 
> Keep an eye on eBay - you should be able to grab that config for a lot less than Apple's price, and the UK refurb store doesn't seem to have much available in the way of upgraded minis at the moment.


Thanks! 

Honestly, i want to be forced to juggle stuff around. I need to be on top of it before it gets to that stage (part of the reason I explored the 256/8gb option). I've found digital clutter to be every bit as distracting and overwhelming as real-world clutter.

As for eBay? Been looking. Actually, I live in Spain. And for some reason re-sellers don't seem to be so big here (Either that, or I'm not looking in the right places). Certainly, when it comes to searching ebay[dot]es, the majority of results come from the U.S, the U.K and Germany. I was watching a U.K site called HoxtonMacs, and had been for a couple of years. But I only recently found out that due to Brexit, VAT and import duty needed to be added to the cost. I'd end up paying more for a second hand Mac than a new one, bought in Spain :(

I could buy the Mac today, if i wanted. But I don't know whether it's better to hold on. Firstly, a reconditioned option will save enough money to pay for an extended guarantee, and some money towards a small UPS. But the other thought is that if the [email protected] Mini turns up in October, the price of the M1 should drop, and all the types of users who need 16-gig will be letting their M1 units go. 

It's a big gamble, though. I could buy a second-hand fan (Left) and hope it'd keep the computer going till then. But if it doesn't, I'll be forced to buy whatever is available at that moment and will have lost this as a backup.

Anyway...just rambling...all rhetorical


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## rnb_2 (Jun 16, 2022)

el-bo said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Honestly, i want to be forced to juggle stuff around. I need to be on top of it before it gets to that stage (part of the reason I explored the 256/8gb option). I've found digital clutter to be every bit as distracting and overwhelming as real-world clutter.
> 
> ...


Ah, not sure why I thought you were in the UK - I also noticed a lack of European sellers on eBay, so maybe other resale services have become more important since mobile replaced desktop?

I completely get the clutter problem. I guess it's a question of balancing the distraction of having too much digital clutter if you don't force constraints on yourself, vs the mental load of having to remember where you put everything if you have to do custom installs for everything, or having to manually do a lot of shuffling things around to keep enough space free on the internal to keep it running well. When I got my 2018 mini, 256 seemed like it would be plenty, but my interests grew in unforeseen ways, application installs got bigger, and eventually the housekeeping became a mental load.

In any case, I hope that timing works out well, you get a good deal on something (if only the timing had been a little different - I had a 16/512 M1 mini that I unfortunately sold to a kid in Germany a couple months back), and you can enjoy having a reliable computer for the first time in a while.


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## el-bo (Jun 17, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> Ah, not sure why I thought you were in the UK



That's where i was born and raised.




rnb_2 said:


> - I also noticed a lack of European sellers on eBay, so maybe other resale services have become more important since mobile replaced desktop?
> 
> I completely get the clutter problem. I guess it's a question of balancing the distraction of having too much digital clutter if you don't force constraints on yourself, vs the mental load of having to remember where you put everything if you have to do custom installs for everything, or having to manually do a lot of shuffling things around to keep enough space free on the internal to keep it running well. When I got my 2018 mini, 256 seemed like it would be plenty, but my interests grew in unforeseen ways, application installs got bigger, and eventually the housekeeping became a mental load.
> 
> In any case, I hope that timing works out well, you get a good deal on something (if only the timing had been a little different - I had a 16/512 M1 mini that I unfortunately sold to a kid in Germany a couple months back), and you can enjoy having a reliable computer for the first time in a while.


Thanks! Actually been looking at other options. Thought it might be worth checking the prices of the 2018 i5 (That was what I was after, until recently). Most places that have them are pricing them higher than M1 Mini's. In some cases much higher than even new units. 

Then today, I saw the prices of 2013 Mac Pro dustbins. Fell down that rabbit-hole for a while, also. Back to sanity, though...I think


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## Markus Kohlprath (Jun 17, 2022)

el-bo said:


> It's not the worst idea in the world. I'm pretty OS/DAW agnostic. But it wouldn't come without issues.
> 
> *Pros:*
> 
> ...


At least the problem with the external trackpad can be solved. I use it after changing back to PC in the last month's. Works very well. But you need an additional software called magic utilities which enables you to set up the trackpad and the apple keyboard on windows just like on mac. It costs a subscription price of something like 15€ per year which it is well worth to me. After all I could set up my windows environment with lemur, stream deck, trackpad and what not pretty much exactly like the Mac. I anticipated doing this to be much more of a problem than it actually was. Buying a mac with the same specs would have meant to spend at least 3k more. The only problem I see is if you are totally into Logic. Than you are kind of trapped of course. But maybe you can just keep the old mac for being able to access old projects and simply start new all over. 
The biggest surprise for me was that you can open old cubase projects done on the mac on Windows without any issues. I just could start as I stopped and continue working on windows with my mac projects.
It saved days of work to still be able to use my template.


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## el-bo (Jun 17, 2022)

Markus Kohlprath said:


> At least the problem with the external trackpad can be solved. I use it after changing back to PC in the last month's. Works very well. But you need an additional software called magic utilities which enables you to set up the trackpad and the apple keyboard on windows just like on mac. It costs a subscription price of something like 15€ per year which it is well worth to me. After all I could set up my windows environment with lemur, stream deck, trackpad and what not pretty much exactly like the Mac. I anticipated doing this to be much more of a problem than it actually was. Buying a mac with the same specs would have meant to spend at least 3k more. The only problem I see is if you are totally into Logic. Than you are kind of trapped of course. But maybe you can just keep the old mac for being able to access old projects and simply start new all over.
> The biggest surprise for me was that you can open old cubase projects done on the mac on Windows without any issues. I just could start as I stopped and continue working on windows with my mac projects.
> It saved days of work to still be able to use my template.


Good to know you got it sorted. And that's handy to know about the trackpad, should my situation ever change.

In the end, there're far too many negatives for me. And actually, when I thought about it further, I don't think there's anything that can beat the entry-level M1 units at that price. It remains to be seen whether Apple keep maintaining this front-line entry-point, however.

I have no need for more than 16gig RAM and I certainly have no need for more power than the M1 chip has. Package all that inside a sleek, rucksack-able (Therefore fly-able) unit, that also happens to run whisper-quiet and cool-to-the-touch....for around a $1000?? Well...How could I not 

Cheers


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## Markus Kohlprath (Jun 17, 2022)

el-bo said:


> Good to know you got it sorted. And that's handy to know about the trackpad, should my situation ever change.
> 
> In the end, there're far too many negatives for me. And actually, when I thought about it further, I don't think there's anything that can beat the entry-level M1 units at that price. It remains to be seen whether Apple keep maintaining this front-line entry-point, however.
> 
> ...


Yes for sure not a bad choice. I was tempted as well. But after all I could pimp up my pretty solid PC slave with specs that I couldn't reach with the Macstudio for a fraction of the price. And Cubase does well on Windows. So it made more sense to me. And I love not being forced into new hardware by software updates I have to say.


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## Daren Audio (Jun 17, 2022)

256/512 GB internally would be difficult for me. I always need to leave some extra head room.
My average internal SSD usuage averages and fluctuates between 480GB and 600GB, plus I capture it in (2) time machine backups. Once done with a project, it gets moved/archived onto an external 3rd HDD backup. Repeat and Rinse.


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## el-bo (Jun 17, 2022)

Daren Audio said:


> 256/512 GB internally would be difficult for me. I always need to leave some extra head room.
> My average internal SSD usuage averages and fluctuates between 480GB and 600GB, plus I capture it in (2) time machine backups. Once done with a project, it gets moved/archived onto an external 3rd HDD backup. Repeat and Rinse.


Thanks! But I'm guessing you've installed more than just DAW and plugins, no?


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## Daren Audio (Jun 17, 2022)

el-bo said:


> Thanks! But I'm guessing you've installed more than just DAW and plugins, no?


Yes! Lots more than DAW, unfortunately.


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## macmac (Jul 2, 2022)

My 2018 Mini has a 512 internal with Mojave, but right now I am using this Mini with an external SanDisk 1TB portable SSD with Big Sur and it runs perfectly. (SanDisk NVMe 1TB Extreme Portable SSD). No glitches, fast. It actually runs faster than Mojave did on the internal, so either that’s due to Big Sur or the external, don’t know. If you did something like that you could get away with the 256 and either run the OS from it, or keep it empty and have all the OS and apps on the external SSD as I do. However I use a 4-bay Akitio external enclosure that houses my samples, recording projects and other data, so the external SSD is acting only as an OS internal drive would. Conceivably I could continue this procedure for every OS where it would be on an external SSD and be able to run it on whatever computer as long as that computer supported that system.

(I am keeping Mojave on the internal so that I still have a computer with Mojave for old stuff when I buy a new Mac in the future. I can just unplug the SSD cable and I will always have a working Big Sur. — Oh, and yes I now have exceeded 512 GB on the external 1TB SSD.)


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## el-bo (Jul 2, 2022)

macmac said:


> My 2018 Mini has a 512 internal with Mojave, but right now I am using this Mini with an external Sandisk 1TB portable SSD with Big Sur and it runs perfectly. No glitches, fast. It actually runs faster than Mojave did on the internal, so either that’s due to Big Sur or the external, don’t know. If you did something like that you could get away with the 256 and either run the OS from it, or keep it empty and have all the OS and apps on the external SSD as I do. However I use a 4-bay Atikio external enclosure that houses my samples, recording projects and other data, so the external SSD is acting only as an OS internal drive would. Conceivably I could continue this procedure for every OS where it would be on an external SSD and be able to run it on whatever computer as long as that computer supported that system.
> 
> (I am keeping Mojave on the internal so that I still have a computer with Mojave for old stuff when I buy a new Mac in the future. I can just unplug the SSD cable and I will always have a working Big Sur. — Oh, and yes I now have exceeded 512 GB on the external 1TB SSD.)


Thanks!

Actually, it turns out that booting from external drives is no longer viable on Apple Silicon; at least, not without workarounds. So my years of cloning bootable drives seems to have come to an end. Now I finally have to learn how to use Time Machine 

As for drive space? I'm not very far off from finishing a fresh Mojave install, that I intend to use to migrate to the new new computer. I specifically formatted a partition to 256gb so i can get an idea of my approximate needs. So far, i have 180gb free-space. I still have dribs 'n' drabs to install (Stuff that doesn't use install managers), but I'm having a hard time imagining that I'll end up with less than 170gb of space. Subtract another 20gb for a second partition (Want to keep all my plugin demoing etc. away from the main partition), and I'll have 150gb free.

Could I spend the next few years accumulating synths and effects? (Anything that defaults to internal installation). It's possible. But it's unlikely. I do get interested in the odd creative effect, but very little in the virtual-synth world has grabbed me much...for quite a few years. Most of the stuff I buy (and I don't even imagine that to be a huge amount) will likely just be libraries for Kontakt etc. none of which have to be installed internally.

The biggest doubt I had pertained to the Native Instruments install size shenanigans (The thought of having to spend a few hundred quid more, just to navigate installing NI products was definitely more than aggravating). However, I've heard that Native Access 2 (The Homecoming) might've solved those issues 

In other news: I've removed one of my ram sticks from my old Macbook Pro. Gonna be doing some experiments to see if I can get away with 8gb RAM (What was once a nerve-wracking potential 1500 Euro indulgence may very well become a much easier 680 Euro spend)


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## Paulogic (Jul 2, 2022)

You can boot from an external SSD if you want. My mini has only 256 internal and
is enough for the moment. All my data is external anyways. But I tried to make it
boot from an external NMVE... works fine and evens seems a bit faster.
Apple is way too expensive if you need extra SSD or memory.
I added Max memory myself (64 GB) recently and could have swapped the internal
SSD with a bigger one, If I wanted to. I takes about an hour to open it and do the
job. Beware I'm speaking of a 2018 i7 mini, not an M1.


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## macmac (Jul 2, 2022)

Silicon won’t let you boot from an external?!? Thanks for letting me know, hadn’t seen that. So much for my plan.


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## el-bo (Jul 2, 2022)

Paulogic said:


> Beware I'm speaking of a 2018 i7 mini, not an M1.


Been working with multiple boot drives for a long time, so familiar with them. But from what I can gather, it's a no-go with Apple Silicon. There are some folk who've had luck, but not everyone seems to be able to get the workarounds to function. Maybe I didn't look deep enough.

The last thing I want to do though, is start trying to force things Apple doesn't intend. Seems like a lot of 'not-making-music' hassle to be dealt with


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## el-bo (Jul 2, 2022)

macmac said:


> Silicon won’t let you boot from an external?!? Thanks for letting me know, hadn’t seen that. So much for my plan.


Look into it, if you're set on trying to keep to your plan. I might've stopped looking just short of everyone finding a workable solution


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## macmac (Jul 2, 2022)

el-bo said:


> Look into it, if you're set on trying to keep to your plan. I might've stopped looking just short of everyone finding a workable solution


My external plan has probably more importance now in order to keep some old software that broke after Mojave, since I can preserve and dual-purpose the Mojave computer while still being able to use it with my external SSD for an updated OS/internet. Once I get the silicon, I’ll most likely stay put using its internal, then the i7 will do its own thing. Too bad though, but it’s not worth it to me to hack around.


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## rnb_2 (Jul 2, 2022)

macmac said:


> Silicon won’t let you boot from an external?!? Thanks for letting me know, hadn’t seen that. So much for my plan.


You can boot an Apple Silicon Mac from an external drive, but the internal drive has to be functioning for it to work. So, having a bootable external is no longer protection against internal drive failure, but you can still use it as protection against OS updates or software installs that don't work as intended (though there are other ways to protect against those sorts of things these days).

Also, it's much more involved to update the OS on a bootable external than it used to be, since there's no way to incrementally update the OS volume due to system security changes. If you want to maintain a bootable external and keep the OS on it relatively updated, at some point you'll have to wipe the external and re-clone everything in order to update the OS.


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