# Thoughts on Bernie Sanders



## Lawson. (Jul 2, 2015)

What do you guys think about Bernie Sanders as the Democratic nominee (and hopefully POTUS)? He's for clean energy, free health care, free public colleges, equal rights, labeling GMOs, tax cuts for middle-class but bigger taxes for the top 1%; I could go on and on. This site has a list of everything he's voted on as Senator and I can't find a single thing to not like about this guy. The best part is, he is the only candidate not taking money from big cooperations/the super wealthy. He seems to truly be a "for the people" person.

Quite a few people have told me "oh, he's not going to win, so why bother?" but I feel like that's the wrong attitude. Every vote counts! People thought President Obama wouldn't win and were sure wrong about that!

So yeah, TL;DR: Bernie Sanders seems like one cool cat; what are your guys' opinions on him?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 2, 2015)

My sentiments exactly. If Hilary wins the primary I won't mind voting for her, but Bernie Sanders is by far the best candidate for what the country needs.


----------



## vinny (Jul 2, 2015)

These unrelated political topics is becoming ridicules.
Please shove them off into the "I don't Give A Fuck" topic...
Moderators do your JOBBBB...enstead of censoring my vulgarity...Do you JOBBB
This is a MUSIC WEBSITE


----------



## Ozymandias (Jul 2, 2015)

General Musings _is_ the IDGAF subforum, essentially. What were you expecting to find here? Schenkerian analysis?


----------



## jtnyc (Jul 2, 2015)

vinny said:


> These unrelated political topics is becoming ridicules.
> Please shove them off into the "I don't Give A Fuck" topic...
> Moderators do your JOBBBB...enstead of censoring my vulgarity...Do you JOBBB
> This is a MUSIC WEBSITE



First of all, this was posted in the "off topic - general musings - universe repair" section. 

If your gonna make a point, why do you have to rudely SHOUT at the moderators and demand they "do their job"? So let me get this straight, their job is to get rid of posts that you don't like before you see them and of coarse censoring your vulgarity is not? Ha!

If you were truly not interested, why did you spend the time clicking on it, reading it, and then spend more time responding? To right a wrong? To put someone in their place? What's the end game?


----------



## rJames (Jul 2, 2015)

I would like to see the first woman president. Its about time. I don't like the dynasty thing but she's not the daughter of a president. She's extremely qualified. Its just bad timing that now is her time and yet we NEED a straight talking person who is not indebted to big money to get us out of the mess that IS big money, lobbyists and politicians who need to constantly pander and beg for funds.

Go Bernie.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 2, 2015)

Actually, vinny, what's not allowed on this forum is posts like yours that only serve to create hostility. I'm sorry you aren't interested in politics, but the other people who posted in this thread are.

One of my suggestions is that you not click on threads in the off-topic section if you don't like them.


----------



## NYC Composer (Jul 2, 2015)

rJames said:


> I would like to see the first woman president. Its about time. I don't like the dynasty thing but she's not the daughter of a president. She's extremely qualified. Its just bad timing that now is her time and yet we NEED a straight talking person who is not indebted to big money to get us out of the mess that IS big money, lobbyists and politicians who need to constantly pander and beg for funds.
> 
> Go Bernie.



I'm a huge Bernie fan. It's almost enough to motivate me to rejoin the Democratic party so I can vote in the primary.

Almost.


----------



## Lawson. (Jul 2, 2015)

NYC Composer said:


> I'm a huge Bernie fan. It's almost enough to motivate me to rejoin the Democratic party so I can vote in the primary.
> 
> Almost.



Do it, Larry! I'm Independent but I'm going to the Democratic side for this. Bernie needs all the support he can get to win this. We can do it!!


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 2, 2015)

I'd vote for him


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 4, 2015)

Everyone I know in the trades is in California right now. Californians know this as they can count the Tower Cranes in San Diego LA San Jose San Francisco and Sacramento.
This is a direct result of years of excess currency from the Federal Reserve.
We need Bernie or a Trump to keep this ball rolling.
Clinton or Bush will be Wall Street owned which means that money will be contracted if Interest rates rise. 
Bernie wants this money to stay in the control of business and the people.
All other candidates have thier sponsors to answer to.
Bernie has my vote and 10 bucks every 2 weeks. Not much but those who count money also count the number of transactions as it reflects the peoples contributions much in the same way that Obama got the popular vote/recognition.
Multi nationals and the Federal Reserve own every candidate in the GOP and Hillary.
You want change? Change the investors.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 4, 2015)

I'm curious why you say it's excess currency, Chim. Raising the interest rates will put lots of people out of work!

To me the sign of excess currency is excess inflation, and right now we have the opposite problem.

Also, this isn't currency that goes into the real economy, it's crediting banks' reserves in their accounts at the Fed (with the idea that they'll lend it out, but that hasn't happened enough).

Now, the part about Wall St. owning candidates is true. But not the Fed. They're the only ones who have done anything to help our terrible economy. Unfortunately they don't have a lot of control under the current conditions.


----------



## SDCP (Jul 4, 2015)

Lawson. said:


> He's for clean energy, free health care, free public colleges,



Hard to believe that anyone thinks that something is "free." There is no such thing. We will ALL (not just the rich) pay though the nose to pay for his "free" stuff.


----------



## JonFairhurst (Jul 4, 2015)

So rather than "free", maybe the term should be "broad access to".

When people don't get health care or education, we all pay for that too.


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 4, 2015)

Nick the way it was explained to me is nobody wanted to build because the DNC Shovel Ready jobs was suppose to make Government and Private investment a partnership.
But it never happened and billions sat idle when it could have been spent.
This left companies in shambles because if they wanted to build, would have to fork over the huge costs of Bonding and Insurance. With so much uncertainty in the markets nobody dared that level of risk.

Now the Banks have stepped in and business is back to the way it was pre collapse.
Construction and Housing are booming right now thanks to Florida, Texas and California.
Even Nevada that has more work on the books than these 3 States combined is firing up, it wasn't set to take place until 2016.

Even if interest rates rise in September as Yelin has indicated, the boom will continue because in the goods and services sector there is more spending than the last 7 years.
I try to talk economics to guys who are well versed in it, and I don't agree with them and their theories. I only know when housing and construction rise, so goes an economy.
Since this isn't a local/Vegas boom, but a national boom, I base my judgements on what I have always seen happen in the past.

Lets say they raise the rates, the excess spending will probably cover the contraction or inflation, but yes many folks will get hit by the success others are having.

I stopped researching what I read 2 months ago in LIUNA monthly as I couldn't find the legislation, so it must have been added on to another bill. But surprisingly the GOP had authorized 275 Billion for infrastructure. Naturally LIUNA purchases Liberals, so in their celebration gave credit to Obama for this. And sadly demonized the GOP during a DNC super majority for halting "Shovel ready jobs."...???

I see through the fog though, and don't care which El Capo di Tutti's made it happen, it came at the same time Banks and Bonds were being offered.
Somebody somewhere knows what they're doing.

Hell I might even visit you someday. Jr. took an offer he couldn't refuse and transferred to LA Local for huge bucks and a bi lingual bonus.
Proud of my boy. Only 21 years old, renting out his home and off working for my old crews from NYC/Philly @ 65.00 an hour...!!

Back to Bernie though....

Someone will have to pay for his programs indeed.
The Banks on Wall Street have 10 Trillion dollars thanks to tax payers.
You'd be surprised what a 20 Trillion Dollar economy can do when people actually serve us instead of themselves.
Compromise is going to keep a guy like Bernie getting half of what he wants.
Putting a GOP or Clinton in the Oval means they come first, then their investors or subsidized voters.
Time for the middle Class.
We blew our sons College money refurbing our house just so we could sell it and recup some equity.
Imagine a world where if your kid is smart and was raised right, you get free tuition....
Imagine not having to budget health care costs.
Now that those 2 issues are settled imagine this happening as your wages increase...............

This would be equal to having the opportunity that folks had 50 years ago where Mom didn't have to work.

BERNIE 2016 or I'm moving to Mexico where a dollar goes a long way and Senoritas love old Gringo's...


----------



## jtnyc (Jul 4, 2015)

I'd way rather see my tax dollars spent on health care for everyone (like most civilized counties), clean air and access to higher education without insurmountable debt than the trillions of tax payer dollars going into perpetual war, mismanaged government programs, corporate tax breaks, and the pockets of our crooked elected officials.

I like Bernie and will most likely vote for him. Unfortunately, I'm not that confident that he will go far. Our system is set up to stop someone like him from reaching the top in most cases. It's not impossible, but sadly, not likely.

It's gonna be interesting. Bernie will be a necessary thorn in Hillary's side for sure. Also, the republican debates are shaping up to be "reality TV" as it's finest. Get out the popcorn... heaven help us.


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 4, 2015)

I saw a vision of Bernies face in the D.C. fireworks.
Most likely I was still tripping from the Pianist who did Gershwin.
Incredible performance.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 4, 2015)

Chim, the ARRA (shovel-read jobs) did a lot, but it's a totally different thing from what the Fed is doing.

Also, the Fed doesn't print money.


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 4, 2015)

Shovel ready jobs didn't do shit. They never happened because the story after they got their 1.2 Trillion dollars was, oh we needed another trillion.
Then it went from Create jobs to jobs saved, then oh well, shovel ready didn't turn out like we planned.
I could point out which rich Liberals had shovel ready jobs to bolster their investment or curry favor from the Fed for voting Yes after voting No back in 2008.

I am dying to see someone that dislikes political correctness and politicians run them bastards out of town by passing laws making bribes (illegal in any modern nation) a crime so they fold their tents and go back to chasing ambulances (liberals) and making drug offenders pay 5k (GOP) for first offense in drug courts.

Meanwhile Back at the Ranch.....................Happy 4th.
I'll take a 2-1 win over Japan tomorrow for a happy 5th.

Cheerz


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 5, 2015)

I'll take a 5-2 win over Japan.

Bernie is going to win the people over, just not the investor class that tells Liberals how to think act and vote.
Might just be enough though....


----------



## snowleopard (Jul 7, 2015)

Remember 8 years ago when a not very well known black guy with a Muslim name ran for President? A lot of people said he wouldn't get too far either. 

I think the election is still Hillary's to lose. And the plutocracy is indeed set up to stop people like Bernie from getting very far. But I agree he will be a necessary thorn in her side, and bring up a LOT of very valid points that will stick with people in the months to come. Considering if you elect almost anyone other than him, coupled with our corrupt Congress, we will continue to head the direction we are with runaway bribery, all the gains at the top, and the next recession taking a huge toll on the 99%, especially our largest growing class of citizens: the working poor.


----------



## jacobthestupendous (Jul 7, 2015)

jtnyc said:


> Our system is set up to stop someone like him from reaching the top in most cases. It's not impossible, but sadly, not likely.
> 
> It's gonna be interesting. Bernie will be a necessary thorn in Hillary's side for sure. Also, the republican debates are shaping up to be "reality TV" as it's finest.



I'd like to see a Bernie Sanders vs Ron Paul election, but like you say, our system won't allow it. It'll be Hillary vs. some old white corporate overlord.


----------



## JonFairhurst (Jul 7, 2015)

I wonder who would be more effective in working with Congress, Bernie or Hillary?

On one hand, Conservatives are already primed to be anti-Clinton. I could see them opposing anything and everything see says and does - just like today with Obama. With Bernie, they will attack him as a "socialist", but it might be harder to get them to really despise the man.

Hillary has a phone (and private email server) full of contacts that she can lean on. She probably already has a cabinet in mind along with four backups for each position. Bernie would be starting from scratch on the administration side of things. Then again, Bernie has many relationships in the Senate that might help him push legislation through.

It's kind of a push.

I think I'll give the edge to Hillary as she come across as more presidential and determined. I think Bernie can be made to look weak and if a president looks weak, he/she loses authority.


----------



## Matt Hawken (Jul 7, 2015)

jtnyc said:


> Also, the republican debates are shaping up to be "reality TV" as it's finest. Get out the popcorn...



As a Brit who follows US politics purely for the entertainment, I have to say I'm fully endorsing Trump for POTUS.

But seriously, please elect Bernie. Please.


----------



## AlexRuger (Jul 15, 2015)

I'm completely for Bernie. He's the first politician I've ever been excited about, besides Liz Warren. I'm donating as I can and will be volunteering soon.

Regarding the need for a female president...while I completely agree, I don't think that gender should trump other issues (i.e. that candidate's policy, financial backers, etc). If it were between Warren and Sanders, I'd vote Warren--they're nearly identical in terms of ideology, with Warren having the added benefit of being a woman, which this country strongly needs. But between Clinton and Sanders--nope, Clinton is too entrenched in corporate support, and I'm not a fan of her voting record.

If you want a progressive, the only choice is Sanders. Let's do this.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 15, 2015)

Chim, I just saw your post about the ARRA not doing shit. Well, the facts show otherwise. It's not possible to dump $300 billion into the economy and not have it do anything (unless it just goes to fat cats' pockets, and it didn't).

http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/the-recovery-act-worked-in-a-few-easy-charts/


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 16, 2015)

Interesting that these federal graphs and charts you call "the facts" didn't stop wealthy white liberals from letting go of the chief economists involved, or in televised hearings where they stated "shovel Ready" wasn't really shovel ready.

Bernie wants to get rid of these wealthy white liberals that demand income equality as they steal our money. Trump doesn't need investors, actually wants to serve Americans.

These 2 guys deserve this job.
And for the wealthy white Liberals let's just hope they leave before the Donald exposes his investments with them.
They cannot allow him on the debate stage, they will lose, he will expose their pathetic attempts at self enrichment.
I loved when he said, Sure I give Hillary money all of the time.
I tell her to show up at a wedding or a ground breaking ceremony and she's there.

The media puppets are getting angry already at Bernie and Donald.
The people that hate them are the people I want exposed and eventually removed from office, or least from public viewing as a "news" reporter or "investigative journalist".
These ass clowns need to become "economists" or some other safe job where results come years later, and cherry picked federal graphs and charts are selectively chosen.
The time for talking and half measures has expired.


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jul 16, 2015)

Matt Hawken said:


> As a Brit who follows US politics purely for the entertainment, I have to say I'm fully endorsing Trump for POTUS



Here he is on his way to the inauguration - Donald Trump cruising with the top down:


----------



## gsilbers (Jul 16, 2015)

I don't understand how anyone can support trump.


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jul 16, 2015)

gsilbers said:


> I don't understand how anyone can support trump.


I have no idea how strong the support for Trump really is. Plenty of news about the US of A here in Germany, but nothing about Trump so far. He's considered an unimportant loud mouth over here.

Does he really have (intelligent) people on his side?


----------



## dpasdernick (Jul 16, 2015)

SDCP said:


> Hard to believe that anyone thinks that something is "free." There is no such thing. We will ALL (not just the rich) pay though the nose to pay for his "free" stuff.



I was just in Vienna. Their free healthcare cost them upwards of 50% or more in taxes. There is no free.


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 16, 2015)

Trump is the real deal and he doesn't need "advice" from some ass clown Pollster.
I would enjoy seeing that knock out wife of his as first lady too.

Imagine in the Oval Office the Sports Illustrated Swimwear contestants getting congratulated instead of insulted by some politically correct womans organization crying about exploitation or other mamby pamby crap. Those unwanted half men have ruined NAMM.

We use to get the Penthouse and Playmate of the Year autographs there, now you get rock and rollers with their 65 year old wives wearing tight spandex. Their once fine ass is now a stealth butt as it cannot be seen by the naked eye.

I will enjoy watching Trump destroy Conservatives, and if he does win the primary, Hillary will break down in tears in a debate with the Donald.
I actually think the Clintons figured out a way to make money losing elections.


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jul 16, 2015)

dpasdernick said:


> I was just in Vienna. Their free healthcare cost them upwards of 50% or more in taxes.


That's not correct. How did you get that impression? I'm not Austrian, but "50% or more in taxes"? Na...
Gotta agree with you saying "there is no free" - it's totally stupid to say it's "free".


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 16, 2015)

Free means expensive.
Politicians promising rivers of honey can't say you must buy expensive health care. That's a no sell for the used car salesmen in Congress back in 2009-2010.

Which is why Americans enjoy being deceived with words like "affordable" but deep down inside we know it is the exact opposite.
We have learned to cope with American folklore though.
Who wants to be forced by rule of law to purchase "unaffordable" health care, even though that is reality.

Similar to the Great Society.
Great according to who...? Surely not those trapped in these massive plantations.
In fact great means "Terrible."

Most recently the "free" abortion clinics actually cost tax payers over 500,000,000 dollars.

But harvesting of human organs helps smooth out the costs of those expensive glasses of wine and caviar, being eaten over the discussion of which child has the better liver, lung or kidney.

These regulators of life call their merry morbid outfit "Planned Parenthood" when it's pretty obvious the pregnant women/children who flock there, are from "Unplanned Parenthood" or they wouldn't need to seek consent from the Gods.

If we had leaders instead of liars, we would call programs paid for by tax payers what they really are. Since these facilities are not in nice neighborhoods, or at a hospital or medical facility, but surround Great Society neighborhoods, let them be called "Minority Population Control Centers."

Must be careful when taking lives or giving lives.
Centuries before we were here the Gods took and gave life.
In the modern era and new theology our Gods only ask you vote for them.

They are so much more kind than the ancient Gods.
Who wants a God that loves you, until you start to party too hard then brutally drowns you in a flood, or sends an asteroid into your city, and if you survived that, promises to throw you into the fires of Hell,...but he really loves you. And why isn't he a she, or speak another language other than English...?

So the new theology isn't so bad after looking into our past.
I just hope they pay me when I retire or I'm ..........


----------



## dpasdernick (Jul 16, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> That's not correct. How did you get that impression? I'm not Austrian, but "50% or more in taxes"? Na...
> Gotta agree with you saying "there is no free" - it's totally stupid to say it's "free".



Our tour bus driver gave us the lowdown. She said free college and healthcare but upwards of 50% taxes. She said a man could retire at 65 and a woman could retire at 60 with 80% of their salary as pension. She was older than 60 so I wondered why she was still working. Now maybe she was lying? I don't know. 

I did just Wiki'd this...

In Austria, the income tax for individuals in 2005 was progressively set up to 50% on a four-bracket progressive schedule: 21% (on taxable income from €3,640 to €7,270; 31% (€7,270 to €21,800); 41% (€21,800 to 50,870); and 50% above €51,000. Married people are taxed separately. Payroll withholding tax is in effect.

My peabrain reads this as if you make more than $51,000 euros (which would leave you pretty poor in Vienna considering the price I paid for Schnitzel) you pay $25000 in tax. Yes? No?


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jul 16, 2015)

dpasdernick said:


> if you make more than $51,000 euros (...) you pay $25000 in tax. Yes? No?


No. You pay a lot less than that.


dpasdernick said:


> the income tax for individuals in 2005 was progressively set up


Progressively - that is the keyword. It means every single Euro ABOVE 51,000€ will be taxed with 50 percent, not all of your income.
So the busdriver wasn't lying. She just doesn't understand the system.

Look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax , scroll down and take a look at the (German) tax rate display. It explains how the system works.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 16, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> I have no idea how strong the support for Trump really is. Plenty of news about the US of A here in Germany, but nothing about Trump so far. He's considered an unimportant loud mouth over here.
> 
> Does he really have (intelligent) people on his side?



No, and neither do any of the other Republican jackasses.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 16, 2015)

You get a lot of services for your tax money in Europe. It's just a different mindset. Instead of "who cares if you suffer as long as I'm okay" like conservatives do, they think "we're in this together."


----------



## JonFairhurst (Jul 17, 2015)

Keep in mind that
* Bankrupting a family due to a medical condition is not free.
* Paying for uninsured people at emergency wards is not free.
* Having a child develop an acute condition (like life-long deafness) due to lack of preventative care (like a simple antibiotic prescription) is not free.

The dog-eat-dog system is one where only the middle class and wealthy get routine care, where all but the wealthy can be wiped out by a single accident or disease, and where most of the money goes to old people getting Cadillac care for hip, knee, and shoulder replacements and being kept alive and in bed until that last possible gasp of air, sucking the retirement account to the last drop.

For-profit medicine is all about the money. It's certainly not about optimal health.


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 22, 2015)

The middle class is always the folks who get screwed.
The poor had Medicaid which is great insurance, the problem with all Government run insurance is that they are months to years behind in paying medical professionals.
Saddened me to see doctors tell my father there's a new experimental drug the FDA shakedown artists have "OK'd" that cost 8k a month. Didn't work so here's another FDA shakedown drug for 10k a month, didn't work either.
Went from upper middle class to lower middle class very fast after 8 years of the feds "regulatatory" nonsense.
Let's not fool ourselves, these great Liberal and Conservative nutsacks partner up with corporations even after boldly stating a single payer system was in play just to find out their back room deals with the 5 top insurance companies allows CEOs like big banks, to swallow up the small carriers, merge into big massive corporations where the "evil" CEOs Liberals promised to eliminate are richer than ever. Check their incomes, and that's after cleansing.

This type of bait and switch lying that Liberals and Conservatives do to enrichen themselves and their friends is going to be exposed in the coming months.
Guys like Trump and Sanders are most welcome. Their arrogance and authenticity is much better than watching smart people tell us how they continue to fail accidentally, of course for a large profit.
Does anyone here actually believe it costs billions to create a website...?
Then while seeing billions spent on this failed company that donated money to the Liberal party campaign, we see hackers breaking into Government controlled sites anytime they want.

Gosh man, does this mean Liberals ripped us off for trillions, but now the good cops of the GOP will need trillions to fix what their "enemies" ruined, just so we can be "served."

I have a dream of Trump ruining both of these parties and taking the Presidency. Where he will take in Bernie Sanders and let him redistribute some of the 10 trillion holed up in the Big 5 Banks Liberals created in the last 7 years.
Trump has been fighting these guys for decades, getting screwed by MultiNationals and the big banks.
These institutions own the Liberals and Conservatives, always have.
Pretty hard to own a billionaire sitting in the Oval Office with an attack dog like Bernie Sanders.


----------



## gsilbers (Jul 22, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> No, and neither do any of the other Republican jackasses.


its funny how all the comments from republicans/right wings are "he speaks his mind".
didn't Hitler speak his mind? ghandi didn't speak his mind? Bernie doesn't speak his mind?
most accurate is , trump speaks his mind and doesn't know anything about politics and he is a complete jackass.

trump now is just playing on the hate from people that want a change. they want a change from a diverse society.
a change from a black president. a change from having immigrants. basically, a change to back to the past.


Trump did mention bringing jobs to the US back from china. but all he said is that. not a specific way of doing it.
its not that simple, and the ways of getting those jobs would have consequences. And those matter and should be addressed.
all that trump is doing right now is the SALES thing. selling it to the hateful. selling it to the US with empty knowhow. Running a government is not running a business. All that trumps knows about economics is micro economics not macro and how decisions on the president level affect the population.

Bernie sanders on the other hand has the experience and the ideas are good and still centered left. progressive enough but not crazy.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 22, 2015)

Actually, the way to bring jobs back isn't all that complicated: lower the dollar.


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 22, 2015)

Nothing beats private sector and government working together on infrastructure too.

Only Trump could insult Mexicans yet still win their vote when the time comes.
The difference is Trump has hundreds of thousands of Hispanic tradesmen collecting 20-30% of their pension checks from the Donald.
Edelson, Wynn and Trump are like heroes in the Trades where hispanics can work with Green Cards and then get their papers the right way.

All Liberals and Conservatives do for hispanics is talk shit, lie and do the good cop bad cop game.
Billionaires can afford to pay Union scale and tons of overtime, so these types of loud mouth guys are admired by them.

While they are racking up 4-5k a month from a pension, Conservatives and Liberals prefer the Hispanics stay off balance by phony legislation, and keep them in ghettos called 
sanctuary cities.

Instead of having a pension and a job to be proud of Liberals have them picking up their dogs feeces, cutting their grass, watering their lawn, cleaning their pools, raise their kids, do their laundry and pick their grapes.

Trump already scared the shit out of Liberals and Conservatives in Nevada.
And trust me those polls many Hispanics are afraid to say they are with Trump.

Corruption is going to be exposed even if Trump loses.
His losing will actually pave the way for a Sanders win.


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jul 30, 2015)

What are we gonna do in case Bernie doesn't win?

Bring all the US peeps back to Europe?
Send more Europeans to the US?

Maybe we all should start acting like Trump? Imagine that...


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 30, 2015)

Americans love Trump. Conservatives and wealthy white Liberals do not. 
They also fear Bernie since he isnt owned by multi national corporations and Banks.
I predict Sanders and Trump will easily defeat their opponents and during thier debate agree more with each other since both are Union Democrats.
The winner will most likely employ each others services and repeal Union corruption and Citizens United.

Dont miss the Fox News staged media event this week called a debate.
It should be a pay per view event.
Strange how the GOP has every race and gender imaginable.
A Sanders or Trump win will result in millions of Liberal slaves being free.
The Liberal Ghettos will be rebuilt from job creation oppurtunities and an end to Liberal sanctuary cities.
The great society neighborhoods are modern day plantations surrounded by abortion clinics.
Sanctuary cities keep non whites out of liberal slave owners neighborhoods.
So allowing these people to escape their white masters regulatory programs will be equal to the end of slavery in the south 150 years ago.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jul 30, 2015)

The bottom line is that while the Republican party is to the right and the Democrats are too the left, theAmerican voters as a whole only drift slightly right or left and are Centrist. So the candidates run to the left and right respectively to get the nomination and then the nominees have to move back to the center to have a chance to win. Republican power brokers still remember the Goldwater choice and Democrat power brokers remember the McGovern choice.

So while the party stalwarts will flirt with a Sanders or a Trump, neither will get the nomination of their party.


----------



## givemenoughrope (Jul 30, 2015)

I'm going to write Bernie's name in if he doesn't get the nomination. He's the only candidate for president AFAIAC.

And if the mofo croaks after getting in I will personally put my life on hold to prop him up for 4 (or 8 years) ala Weekend at Bernie's 3. Although it would fool no one...


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 30, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> So while the party stalwarts will flirt with a Sanders or a Trump, neither will get the nomination of their party.



Jay you are too used to the 2 Crime Families controlling the Primaries with money and Super Delegates.
They never had a Vallery Jarrett holding a presidential candidate hostage, or a Trump out buying every Delegate and Advertisement slot. He hasn't spent anything yet and after he entertains Americans in Cleveland, who will be willing to throw away millions trying to feed a dead horse..?

This is a whole new game. The 2 groups of lying lawyers that fool the Sheep are about to be removed en masse.
Just watching them grovel for cash from investors will be most enjoyable.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jul 30, 2015)

Chim, I'll bet you $100 right now that neither Trump or Sanders gets their party's nomination. Are we on?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 30, 2015)

"The bottom line is that while the Republican party is to the right and the Democrats are too the left, theAmerican voters as a whole only drift slightly right or left and are Centrist"

More false equivalence from Mr. Jay Asher. It's also an empty statement.

You just can't accept what your five senses are telling you: that the Republicans are f-ing crazy and the Democrats are actually sort of moderate and sort of corporate - mostly rational but not really active enough to do much.

Bernie Sanders' policies are the best ones for the country, whether or not you agree with his vision. That's not as much left or right as it is factual: no other candidate is proposing solutions that will deal with the major problems we're facing. Hillary is proposing band-aids, as Robert Reich put it, and every one of the Republicans is proposing a big pile of shit based on false assumptions that have been disproven over and over and over.

You can make fun of it like it's a sporting event, and you can laugh off Bernie Sanders (and act like he's the same thing as Trump). But you yourself posted that not all opinions are equal.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jul 30, 2015)

No the bottom line is that wishing it were so won't make it so. Want to take the bet I offered Chim?


----------



## jacobthestupendous (Jul 30, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Bernie Sanders' policies are the best ones for the country, whether or not you agree with his vision. That's not as much left or right as it is factual:


You need to get over what's "factual" if you want to understand the electoral politics. For better or worse, Jay's right about how the elections work. The eventual nominations will go to the candidates who show that they are simultaneously extreme enough (left or right) to represent their party AND centrist enough to win enough of the other team's votes to win the whole shebang. It does matter what Bernie Sanders' vision is because it is so ideal-left that he will be considered unelectable. Same with Trump but opposite direction.


----------



## JonFairhurst (Jul 30, 2015)

Fox has done a nice job in shaking down Citizen's United.

1) The Supreme Court deregulates money in politics.
2) The GOP has umpteen candidates. Why? Because you no longer need popular support. All you need is one sugar daddy billionaire.
3) Fox limits the debate to 10 candidates. Fox decides that for a candidate to get on stage, they need to be in the top ten in national polls (not just Iowa and New Hampshire.)
4) To register on national polls, the candidate needs to be provocative and entertaining. This provides free, titillating content that increases the ratings of Fox News programming.
5) If the candidate's "provocative and entertaining" strategy fails, they need to run national ads. And which channel will deliver those ads to GOP voters nation wide? Fox News.
6) The rules for being top ten in national polls is based on polls selected by Fox News, but they haven't disclosed the list. This means that that Fox can post-select the polls that delivers the top ten slate that Fox prefers. In other words, the candidates who can deliver the most Citizen's United money to ad buys over the next year. Oh, and those who deliver provocative and entertaining programming.
7) The ad buys and titillating content will arouse the sugar daddies, who will give more to their candidates and Super PACs. And so the cycle continues...

Fox News is the king-maker. And the royal family's name is 'Murdoch'. Show your fealty, candidates. Beg your backers and have them make out their checks directly to Rupert.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jul 30, 2015)

And as a cranky older Jewish guy from a small Liberal state, let me say that if Bernie got the nomination, there is no way the presidency will be won by an even cranking, even older Jewish guy from an even smaller Liberal state.


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jul 30, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> And as a cranky older Jewish guy from a small Liberal state, let me say that if Bernie got the nomination, there is no way the presidency will be won by a cranky older Jewish guy from a small Liberal state.


Reducing the crankiness would be the next logical step then, no?


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jul 30, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> Reducing the crankiness would be the next logical step then, no?



Vicious circle


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jul 30, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> Vicious circle


Hm, now that you mention it... true! :D


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 30, 2015)

> You need to get over what's "factual" if you want to understand the electoral politics



And I say you need to get over listening to pundits who treat this as a game, never mind that I actually do have a pretty clear understanding of "the electoral politics."

Political science isn't an exact science, it's the study of historical trends. History doesn't always repeat itself.

Also, these are not "facts," they're facts. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with Bernie Sanders (although they should if they care about the future of our country), I'm saying that nobody else is suggesting any credible policy solutions to deal with the two major issues of our time: looming ecological collapse; and unsustainable, deepening income inequality. Hillary dances around the surface of those issues in her campaign rhetoric, and every one of the Republican dickheads is still talking the same ignorant Orwellian crap that will only dig us deeper into the hole.

Wanna debate that? I may sound polarized, but there's opinion and there's fact. This is fact.

Jay, so what if Hillary is more likely to win. The election isn't over, and this isn't a reality TV show for entertainment, it's an election about the future of our country. You're underestimating the popular appeal of Bernie Sanders' message, as well as what you always miss: it's rational. He's attractive to a lot of libertarian voters, not just liberals, and people who are suffering in this economy may be interested when they hear what he's actually advocating. They should.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jul 30, 2015)

Put your money where your mouth is and accept my bet. You won't of course, because you know that as much as you want that outcome it is not going to happen for the reasons I have already stated.


----------



## NYC Composer (Jul 31, 2015)

I wonder what Trump will extract from the Republican Party for his pledge not to enter the race as a third party candidate. I think that's been the game all along. There is no way he actually wants such an ill paid, demanding job.


----------



## sleepy hollow (Jul 31, 2015)

NYC Composer said:


> There is no way he actually wants such an ill paid, demanding job.


He's clearly not right in the head, don't forget that. He's not doing this for the money, and he's not trying to improve the lifes / the overall situation of of US people. It's probably just some weird powertrip.


----------



## NYC Composer (Jul 31, 2015)

I don't think there's anything wrong with his head. He's an opportunist, and I believe this is calculated.


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 31, 2015)

Jeez Larry, you back doing Clubs again...0207 hours isn't normal, it's like what I do.
Go to bed at 0300 wake up and feed the animals at 0700, go back to bed until 1130 hours just in time for neighbors sharing their harvest.
I actually had the worst organic home grown microbe enhanced soil, White Sweet Corn I ever had.
Absolutely no taste what so ever.

I got a great idea, let's come back here and have some fun watching Trump destroy mouthpiece/lawyer types on a Fox News debate.
It doesn't get any better than having Fox as a host and giving them final say so on who the President should be.
Talk about blatent corruption and sales of legislation.

We can have tons of fun here after that dog and pony show.

It's actually amazing what Trump has done though.
As we speak lawyers, Hollywood make up artists, pollsters, coaches/actors prepping their candidates and Trump is off buying real estate in Scotland, watching Golf Tournaments and making his rounds in the foreign press, no preparation what so ever.
His arrogance and confidence are most refreshing....


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jul 31, 2015)

Chim, you must _love_ slowing down and looking at bad accidents on the freeway


----------



## chimuelo (Jul 31, 2015)

No lonsman.
Just want to watch the system crash and burn. I'd pull over and roast sweet corn & olive oil for that.
The sheep who worship these B actors are in for surprise.
If the 2 shit disturbors lose I still win.
My concerns are for those who want the oppurtunities we prosperered under.
Those days are gone under this part time phony economy.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 31, 2015)

No Jay, I don't know it's not going to happen. Either do you. Again, so what if the odds aren't in Bernie Sanders' favor; that's not a reason to make the prophesy self-fulfilling if he's the best candidate - which he is. I'm going to vote for him in the primary and hope, but if Hillary wins I won't mind supporting her.

Apart from it being a bad bet, the reason I won't take it is that this isn't a f-ing horserace. There's too much of that when you turn on the TV.


----------



## chimuelo (Aug 1, 2015)

The only other candidate in the DNC than Bernie I would support is Biden.
He was right all along about Iraq.
He also knows the middle class.
We will never see wages rise. Private sector does not have the money after all of the deductions.
Giving insurance and education incentives reducing costs for families is the only feasible path forward.
The candidates who claim any other approach are lying to get elected.
Home ownership and labor participation rates make this scenario even worse.
So far the only person who gets that is Biden.
He tore up Ryan on the debate stage so he isnt as dim witted as he appears.
I just really get nervous about Clinton since she is always wrong except when she makes money for herself.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Aug 1, 2015)

Indeed, Biden was ridiculed at the time for saying that Iraq was naturally 3 nations that were held together by a dictator and that it should be allowed to become 3 nations again but I think history has clearly proven him right.


----------



## chimuelo (Aug 6, 2015)

OMG Carly Fiorina is one sharp lady with foreign executive experience to boot.
The other clowns on stage were too scared to take on the Donald, she was pretty impressive.
Those other idiots don't stand a chance against her much less the Donald who carries Liberals and Conservative politicians around in his pockets like so many nickels and dimes.

Thought I'd keep watching Fox since the blonde that co hosted the "debate" (more like a short speech ceremony) was a major babe, whoah!! Much nicer than that whale from CNN last time around.

So then the next show came on and I can't tolerate corporate media, it was bad enough having to sit through infomercials during that pathetic gathering of dip shits that let Fiorina slap them around like whimps.
I want to see her smack the Donald around since the men in Washington DC have no penises...


----------



## chimuelo (Aug 13, 2015)

Bernie appears to be getting some serious* crowds the media can no longer ignore.
What exciting times as both parties see how people dont fall for thier shell games.
Thanks to Liberals and Conservatives we are seeing Socialists and a Union Democrat stomping the gangsters in attendence as well as polls.
These are great days......*


----------



## vinny (Aug 14, 2015)

As an Anarchist my whole life with family ties dating back early 1900's , I was mentored well. And in my teachings I was learned this:...as an example, You have a box of cherries, most of them are spoiled...Question: How long will it take for the few good cherries in the box to become spoiled....Its purely a natural process.

You have a tree with dead branches extending from the 100 year old tree...When you prune or cut the dead branch...Question..What sprouts up next spring...New and strong branch..attached to the same tree.
Capitalism is the tree and the dead branches are the counter actions brought on by people to eliminate some of the ills of Capitalism....With good intentions the people cuts the sickly branch of Capitalism thinking that this problem and that problem is now solved...When only in reality they have only prolonged the system and made it only stronger...When in reality the stronger the Capitalist system becomes in its drive and motion to move forward it must continue in its perpetual motion towards Fascism....Corporatism is Fascism run by corporations and the very rich...

The only way to abolish Capitalism is to dig deep in the roots of the tree and cut the roots out where eventually the tree dies...The only way we do that is by convincing the Working Class that this current system is sick and must go...When we have a majority concession actually seeing the elephant in the room for what it truely is..which is ugly and sick.....Then positive momentum happens ....
One thing you cannot have is to cosign this system by thinking that this candidate or thatcandidate will be right one for the people....The right candidate for the people , the Working Class is the candidate who delivers that the tree must come down....Remember the box of cherries...
Bernie Sanders is a moderate Socialist....Good..But unless he delivers that he will cut the Capitalist system down..he will either change if becomes prez and become spoiled or be assassinated and becomes A dead prez. 

Never co-sign something that you believe is wrong by giving it power to breed.

Don't take my word....Read and do research for yourself..

This is my one and only comment I will make on this post..I will not engage in defending my statements.
Read and do research for yourself.
You can lead the working Class to H20.......!


----------



## Michael K. Bain (Aug 14, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> Indeed, Biden was ridiculed at the time for saying that Iraq was naturally 3 nations that were held together by a dictator and that it should be allowed to become 3 nations again but I think history has clearly proven him right.





chimuelo said:


> The only other candidate in the DNC than Bernie I would support is Biden.
> He was right all along about Iraq.



Biden voted for the Iraq War and even gave a speech in support of it on the Senate Floor.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Aug 14, 2015)

Yep, Biden got that wrong as did a lot of us at the time, but he was absolutely right about breaking up Iraq. It is not _really_ a nation unless nationhood is imposed on it or held together by a strong dictator, just like the former Yugoslavia and the former Soviet Union.


----------



## chimuelo (Aug 14, 2015)

Yes true but like Bush Sr. He wanted a swift win didn't want to stick around trying to create a Government in a land where Kings.and dictators are preferable.
Splitting the country up is what's going to happen now anyway.
ISIS will be surrounded by hostile.
Thank You Obama.......


----------



## Diffusor (Aug 16, 2015)

A Canadian outsider's take on Bernie.


----------



## NYC Composer (Aug 17, 2015)

That guy's style is so annoying, I tuned out at 1:47. Can you offer the short form, like, what does he think- that I could read in 20 seconds or so?


----------



## chimuelo (Aug 17, 2015)

He just doesn't get rich white Liberal policy.
The money never reaches Liberal voters. Hence the need for more every year.

Perhaps he should look at the ROI schedules of Liberal policy from Canadian investors.

10 million invested into Presidential and congressional elections in return for a website that costs billions taken from middle class tax payers.
Shrinking the middle class down even more.

These are incredible feats.
Quite brilliant actually for if you try to change this you will be attacked by Liberal grpups like Sanders recently saw.


----------

