# Help! iMac has finally died



## Simon Passmore (Aug 24, 2021)

Hi,

I've got my first ever TV composing gig and my 2015 iMac has finally breathed its last at the worst possible time.

My files are all saved on the cloud and I can just download all my sample libraries again, but I preferably need 32GB+ of RAM as it's all orchestral stuff with lots of articulations, and quite a lot of hefty samples (CSS, CSW etc).

I know that the M2/M1X is just around the corner, but I need to send everything off by the end of November, and still have a lot of music to mock up.

So as the M2 won't arrive in time, and I definitely need more than 16GB RAM- is it worth getting another good (final) intel Mac, to last me another 4-5 years or so? I'd be looking at getting one with 64GB RAM, around £3.5-4k (seems a lot but as I only use it for work I can put the whole thing on expenses...)


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## emilio_n (Aug 24, 2021)

If you have right deadlines, don’t trust when Apple will announce the new M2 / 1MX. Actually if you need to deliver a job, don’t trust on gear just released. 

I recommend you the 2020 iMac with the i7 and 8Gb of RAM. then buy 64gb or 128gb to another 3rd party to save a lot of money.

I have a 2015 iMac and I am waiting for the next thing of Apple, but I don’t need to deliver a job in a few weeks and my iMac still works more or less fine.


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## cuttime (Aug 24, 2021)

Do you have an internal HD backup or clone or Time Machine drive? Chances are that the system drive (I assume it is a spinner) is the culprit, and a HD replacement might be your best bet. A 2015 model is not that old, and there are much older models out there that are still going strong.


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## Elrik Settee (Aug 24, 2021)

Anybody else think an M1 mini with 16gb RAM might be enough?

The reviews I've seen say that it handles huge LPX projects without breaking a sweat.


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## Simon Passmore (Aug 25, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> If you have right deadlines, don’t trust when Apple will announce the new M2 / 1MX. Actually if you need to deliver a job, don’t trust on gear just released.
> 
> I recommend you the 2020 iMac with the i7 and 8Gb of RAM. then buy 64gb or 128gb to another 3rd party to save a lot of money.
> 
> I have a 2015 iMac and I am waiting for the next thing of Apple, but I don’t need to deliver a job in a few weeks and my iMac still works more or less fine.


Thanks very much for the advice. Is there a huge difference between the i5 and i7? £500 difference on the apple store


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## emilio_n (Aug 25, 2021)

Simon Passmore said:


> Thanks very much for the advice. Is there a huge difference between the i5 and i7? £500 difference on the apple store


If you want to use larger templates with a lot of instruments, I think yes. Between i7 to i9, I will recommend the i7 as is cheaper but faster. The only difference is the number of cores (8 and 10) but this is not a great improvement for music creation.

In the case of i5 vs i7, I think the is better to invest in the i7 if you want to use it for some years. I don't know if with the i5 you can add 128GB of RAM at some moment. (You will want this RAM sooner than later)


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## Simon Passmore (Aug 25, 2021)

cuttime said:


> Do you have an internal HD backup or clone or Time Machine drive? Chances are that the system drive (I assume it is a spinner) is the culprit, and a HD replacement might be your best bet. A 2015 model is not that old, and there are much older models out there that are still going strong.


I'd like an excuse to buy a new iMac please 🤓


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## Simon Passmore (Aug 25, 2021)

Elrik Settee said:


> Anybody else think an M1 mini with 16gb RAM might be enough?
> 
> The reviews I've seen say that it handles huge LPX projects without breaking a sweat.


I've seen varying accounts of this, some saying there isn't enough RAM for big orchestral templates... not willing to chance it for my first ever job. I'll upgrade to the 256GB RAM M5X chip in 2025!


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## mushanga (Aug 25, 2021)

Simon Passmore said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've got my first ever TV composing gig and my 2015 iMac has finally breathed its last at the worst possible time.
> 
> ...


Hi Simon,

I faced this exact same dilemma recently (2015 iMac which kept randomly restarting and became very unreliable) and was forced to change my Mac.

I ended up going for the M1 Mac mini with 16GB of RAM...the RAM limitation was obviously the main concern for me (having come from 40GB in my iMac), and I was hoping to wait until the M1X/M2 but needed a solution now. I am currently testing the machine to see how it deals with heavy sessions in Logic. So far so good. Remember also that if you use a lot of Kontakt libraries Native Instruments are yet to provide native Apple silicon support...however this is bound to come soon, which will improve performance greatly. Spectrasonics libraries already work great, for example. Very snappy.

I decided that buying an M1 Mac would be a better investment in the longterm, both in terms of future software support (macOS and apps) and in terms of the machine holding its resale value should I wish to upgrade.

Will post any interesting observations as I continue to use it.


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## Simon Passmore (Aug 25, 2021)

mushanga said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> I faced this exact same dilemma recently (2015 iMac which kept randomly restarting and became very unreliable) and was forced to change my Mac.
> 
> ...


That's really helpful, thanks, and if I didn't have a November deadline I would definitely just hang on for the M1X or M2... but I'm hoping the i7 will last me for 4-5 years, then will upgrade. Interested to see how you get on with the M1!


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## kgdrum (Aug 25, 2021)

cuttime said:


> Do you have an internal HD backup or clone or Time Machine drive? Chances are that the system drive (I assume it is a spinner) is the culprit, and a HD replacement might be your best bet. A 2015 model is not that old, and there are much older models out there that are still going strong.


I have to agree with @cuttime
Apple is in the middle of a huge transition. Myself as much as I’d love a new Mac I wouldn’t consider buying an Intel model that’s being discontinued if I could operate my present iMac with an alternative boot drive. If you can’t get the old iMac up and running purchasing might be your only realistic option but if you can resurrect it and hold off for maybe a year or two you will probably be better off in the long run and be quite happy with your decision.
Several years ago I purchased the last G5 when Apple was making the Intel transition,looking back neither choice was ideal. The end of the old Macs were soon to be obsolete and the 1st run intels needed some revisions to become what they became. *I will never buy or recommend any 1st generation of any new major revision or platform from Apple.*
In the long run if you can avoid purchasing a new Mac now and hold off until the dust settles with the transition in my mind that will be the best case scenario.
Good Luck 👍


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## shropshirelad (Aug 25, 2021)

mushanga said:


> Will post any interesting observations as I continue to use it.


Please do, my late 2014 is still going but I'm getting increasingly nervous about it! Also considering the Mini with 16GB, which should be easy to move on or redeploy if the new iMac is completely irresistible.


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## Simon Passmore (Aug 25, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> I have to agree with @cuttime
> Apple is in the middle of a huge transition. Myself as much as I’d love a new Mac I wouldn’t consider buying an Intel model that’s being discontinued if I could operate my present iMac with an alternative boot drive. If you can’t get the old iMac up and running purchasing might be your only realistic option but if you can resurrect it and hold off for maybe a year or two you will probably be better off in the long run and be quite happy with your decision.
> Several years ago I purchased the last G5 when Apple was making the Intel transition,looking back neither choice was ideal. The end of the old Macs were soon to be obsolete and the 1st run intels needed some revisions to become what they became. *I will never buy or recommend any 1st generation of any new major revision or platform from Apple.*
> In the long run if you can avoid purchasing a new Mac now and hold off until the dust settles with the transition in my mind that will be the best case scenario.
> Good Luck 👍


I completely get what you're saying, but as long as this intel i7 is still running in 4-5 years' time, that will be okay for me and I can upgrade then. Is the risk that some sample libraries stop working with the intel processors? Or that libraries released further down the line will only be compatible with the new silicon chips?

Would also point out that the fee for this job will more than cover the cost of a 27-inch i7 iMac, and as I mentioned I'll only use it for work so can just put it on expenses...


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## wayne_rowley (Aug 25, 2021)

The current M1s are entry level products. Yes, they can do a lot with 16GB of RAM, but 16GB is still 16GB - you are going to hit the limits sooner, especially if you are used to 32GB+.

There is nothing wrong with the Intel Macs. In fact we are still expecting Apple to release a revised Intel Mac Pro. They will be supporting Intel for a while. Plus, a lot of music software and plug-ins are only working in Rosetta mode currently.

*Edit* Meant to say - it wouldn't surprise me if COVID and the chip shortage extends their crossover from Intel to AS from the original 2 years planned to perhaps 3+ years. 

If you need a new Mac NOW and your needs require high RAM, go for an Intel. As others have said the 2020 i7 iMac is great!

Wayne


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## wayne_rowley (Aug 25, 2021)

Simon Passmore said:


> Is the risk that some sample libraries stop working with the intel processors? Or that libraries released further down the line will only be compatible with the new silicon chips


Sample libraries won't just stop working, but newer versions may be AS only... so don't upgrade!  

I don't think we are in danger of seeing Kontakt AS only libraries for many years! Most Kontakt libraries currently support version 5+, many still support older versions. Sample vendors with dedicated players... that's a different story. But they rely on pro users, and pro users don't just buy the latest and greatest and dump the old. Many will likely be on Intel Macs for years. This should be reflected in support of Intel versions (until Apple dump support - which should be at least 5-7 years).

Wayne


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## Simon Passmore (Aug 25, 2021)

wayne_rowley said:


> The current M1s are entry level products. Yes, they can do a lot with 16GB of RAM, but 16GB is still 16GB - you are going to hit the limits sooner, especially if you are used to 32GB+.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with the Intel Macs. In fact we are still expecting Apple to release a revised Intel Mac Pro. They will be supporting Intel for a while. Plus, a lot of music software and plug-ins are only working in Rosetta mode currently.
> 
> ...


Have just bought a 2TB i7 iMac and 128GB of RAM from Mr Memory. Have only ever worked with 24GB on my i5 2015, so looking forward to seeing how fast it is!
Hoping it will tie me over for the next 4-5 years until the new silicon chips are a bit more mainstream.

Thanks so much everyone for all the advice. Massively appreciated


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## kgdrum (Aug 25, 2021)

Congratulations! 
fwiw last year I upgraded my 5,1 from 6core 32gig to 12core 96gig and the difference is amazing!
I can finally create music without looking over my shoulder to see if I’m maxing out my Mac, I’m sure you will really enjoy the extra available ram. 👍


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## mushanga (Aug 25, 2021)

wayne_rowley said:


> The current M1s are entry level products. Yes, they can do a lot with 16GB of RAM, but 16GB is still 16GB - you are going to hit the limits sooner, especially if you are used to 32GB+.


Reviews and tests online suggest that the M1 chip handles RAM differently (file swapping with the SSD etc.) - the below video is encouraging, for example:


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## Simon Passmore (Aug 25, 2021)

mushanga said:


> Reviews and tests online suggest that the M1 chip handles RAM differently (file swapping with the SSD etc.) - the below video is encouraging, for example:



Have seen some amazing reviews of it, but like an earlier post said, it might not be a good idea to buy the very first generation of a new product... maybe better to wait until the faults are ironed out and improvements are made


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## robcs (Aug 25, 2021)

If you need an excuse for a new iMac, why not fix the hard drive (maybe replace it with an SSD), so you work while you wait for the M2 to be released


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## Pier (Aug 25, 2021)

Simon Passmore said:


> That's really helpful, thanks, and if I didn't have a November deadline I would definitely just hang on for the M1X or M2... but I'm hoping the i7 will last me for 4-5 years, then will upgrade. Interested to see how you get on with the M1!


Can't you lease a Mac for a couple of months?


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## rnb_2 (Aug 25, 2021)

Simon Passmore said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've got my first ever TV composing gig and my 2015 iMac has finally breathed its last at the worst possible time.
> 
> ...


If it wasn't for the fact that the base i5 iMac comes with a 256GB SSD that can't be upgraded, I'd recommend going that route as a stop-gap, as even that machine is a substantial upgrade on your 2015 iMac. However, my experience has been that too many things get upset if they're not on the system drive, so 512GB is probably a more realistic starting point.

Given that, I'd probably recommend either the 3.3GHz i5 iMac, or going with an i7 Mac mini and a decent 4k screen. You can upgrade the RAM in either yourself, though you'll need a couple special screwdrivers and some care with the mini - I'd recommend Crucial RAM for either, as there have been some issues with other 3rd party RAM in recent iMacs. Given where Apple Silicon is going, my instinct would be to minimize your outlay on an Intel machine now to make it easier to justify a shorter lifespan for whatever you get - think 1-3 years instead of 4-5.

If you go the Mac mini route now, that will make an upgrade to an M1X/M2X/etc mini down the line pretty simple, and you should be able to use your peripherals from your iMac to keep costs down, then buy the new TouchID Magic Keyboard when you get an Apple Silicon Mac. If you get a decent display now, you just continue using it, so all you're really upgrading is the mini itself.


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## Simon Passmore (Sep 1, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> If it wasn't for the fact that the base i5 iMac comes with a 256GB SSD that can't be upgraded, I'd recommend going that route as a stop-gap, as even that machine is a substantial upgrade on your 2015 iMac. However, my experience has been that too many things get upset if they're not on the system drive, so 512GB is probably a more realistic starting point.
> 
> Given that, I'd probably recommend either the 3.3GHz i5 iMac, or going with an i7 Mac mini and a decent 4k screen. You can upgrade the RAM in either yourself, though you'll need a couple special screwdrivers and some care with the mini - I'd recommend Crucial RAM for either, as there have been some issues with other 3rd party RAM in recent iMacs. Given where Apple Silicon is going, my instinct would be to minimize your outlay on an Intel machine now to make it easier to justify a shorter lifespan for whatever you get - think 1-3 years instead of 4-5.
> 
> If you go the Mac mini route now, that will make an upgrade to an M1X/M2X/etc mini down the line pretty simple, and you should be able to use your peripherals from your iMac to keep costs down, then buy the new TouchID Magic Keyboard when you get an Apple Silicon Mac. If you get a decent display now, you just continue using it, so all you're really upgrading is the mini itself.


From what I've read online you can't upgrade the RAM in a Mac mini?









Theoretically, you can upgrade RAM & SSD on your M1 Mac mini, but you shouldn't | AppleInsider


It's technically possible to upgrade the RAM and storage on an Apple M1 Mac mini — but there are several reasons why it's a terrible idea.




appleinsider.com





I went with the last of the Intels, i7 3.8GHz, 2TB, upgraded with Crucial to 128GB RAM and it's an absolute dream. I don't see a reason to upgrade for another 5-6 years as it's running all instruments and articulations without any glitches at all... Definitely don't need 'the newest thing', just something to get my job done . Will look at M2/3/4/5 when this one starts to wear out.


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## shropshirelad (Sep 1, 2021)

mushanga said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> I faced this exact same dilemma recently (2015 iMac which kept randomly restarting and became very unreliable) and was forced to change my Mac.
> 
> ...


Hi Mushanga - just wondered if you were getting on OK with the M1 Mini? I don't use huge templates and my current machine has 24gb - my main problems seem to come from the ageing processor rather than lack of RAM. I would prefer to go Simon's route but I'm baulking at the cost, which is north of £3000 ($4136.00). M1 mini and decent monitor is about half that I reckon.


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## rnb_2 (Sep 1, 2021)

Simon Passmore said:


> From what I've read online you can't upgrade the RAM in a Mac mini?


Just to clarify - you can upgrade the RAM in the Intel Mac mini; the i5/i7 models are still available new from Apple.

Happy to hear that the i7 iMac is working well for you - it’s a great machine.


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## Stevie (Sep 1, 2021)

FWIW, my iMac late 2012 is still going strong (it's actually my oldest used computer I ever posessed). The HDD made some strange noises recently ( I didn't have any issues tho, but a strange sounding HDD is never a good sign). Therefore I decided to connect an external SSD and moved all my data over. Works flawlessly. I guess, with a computer that is around 10 years old, the HDD will be the first thing to fail.


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## Simon Passmore (Sep 1, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> Just to clarify - you can upgrade the RAM in the Intel Mac mini; the i5/i7 models are still available new from Apple.
> 
> Happy to hear that the i7 iMac is working well for you - it’s a great machine.


Not sure Apple are still selling intel mac minis - website shop only has M1 chips! I'm outdated already and I've only had the computer for two days


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## rnb_2 (Sep 1, 2021)

Simon Passmore said:


> Not sure Apple are still selling intel mac minis - website shop only has M1 chips! I'm outdated already and I've only had the computer for two days


They're still there on the Buy page - you may have to scroll down to see the Intel config.


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## mushanga (Sep 2, 2021)

shropshirelad said:


> Hi Mushanga - just wondered if you were getting on OK with the M1 Mini? I don't use huge templates and my current machine has 24gb - my main problems seem to come from the ageing processor rather than lack of RAM. I would prefer to go Simon's route but I'm baulking at the cost, which is north of £3000 ($4136.00). M1 mini and decent monitor is about half that I reckon.


Hi...thanks for reaching out. After testing my Mac mini M1 with Logic projects of 40-50 tracks mainly consisting of Kontakt instances with pretty RAM-hungry libraries, I decided to return it. As many have pointed out, RAM is RAM, and whilst the M1 seems to handle file swapping with the SSD really well, I did feel that the 16GB RAM limit was too low for me. I was getting frequent System Overload errors at around 45 tracks fully armed, at 256 buffer size, and did not want to be hitting the ceiling so quickly. One amazing thing I did notice with the mini M1 was that it was always dead silent with no fan noise, unlike my rather troublesome late 2015 retina iMac.

I am now in the market for a Mac which can house at least 64GB of RAM. I think I will wait until the next generation processor (M1X/M2) is out, as I just can't bring myself to spend £1500+ on an Intel machine at this point.


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## shropshirelad (Sep 3, 2021)

mushanga said:


> Hi...thanks for reaching out. After testing my Mac mini M1 with Logic projects of 40-50 tracks mainly consisting of Kontakt instances with pretty RAM-hungry libraries, I decided to return it. As many have pointed out, RAM is RAM, and whilst the M1 seems to handle file swapping with the SSD really well, I did feel that the 16GB RAM limit was too low for me. I was getting frequent System Overload errors at around 45 tracks fully armed, at 256 buffer size, and did not want to be hitting the ceiling so quickly. One amazing thing I did notice with the mini M1 was that it was always dead silent with no fan noise, unlike my rather troublesome late 2015 retina iMac.
> 
> I am now in the market for a Mac which can house at least 64GB of RAM. I think I will wait until the next generation processor (M1X/M2) is out, as I just can't bring myself to spend £1500+ on an Intel machine at this point.


Many thanks for this useful field report. It looks like I'll be playing the waiting game with you for the time being!


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## erodred (Sep 16, 2021)

Apologies for being late to the party. Just could not hold myself from sharing. I am shopping around as my wife and I want to get into some development with XCode. I think the Intel should still be a safe choice just because Windows computers will still be using AMD and Intel so developers should still be supporting it as usual. Not like support should be dropped for that.

Although the other concern is how they handle the updates for Logic, XCode, or even the OS. But they support old models for iPhones and iPads and they still have the macPro that has Intel Xeon processors I believe? So I think the question comes down to just RAM needs.


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## BassClef (Sep 16, 2021)

Just a hobbyist here… Luckily my late 2014 27” iMac is still running. However as soon as an M2 with 64gb is available, I’ll buy.


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## colony nofi (Sep 16, 2021)

As others have said, there's quite a few options.
1. Lease a mac. This is a pretty good option in big cities. Even leasing a new mac pro.
2. M1 Mini - but that's a risk if you haven't tried it. Only a time risk though - since apple happily refund in the first 14 days. Might be worth trying. I'm surprised by its performance *FOR POST* but music stuff I have been caught by the way ram is used / how much I personally use
3. imac. They're good.
4. NOS / Used trashcan. The 6 core machines make very good composing machines, and you will prob get cheaper than a new imac, with comparable performance (but less in some cases - depends on how you use it).

My personal trashcan's graphics card is dying. I'm lucky to have other machines at our studios I can prob use, but I'm scratching my head on what to do. I'll likely just get another trash can and swap the drive and ram in - to tie me over to the new (m based) mac pro which should come before mid year 2022. I think its worth waiting for that compared to even a M1X / M2 mini which could well arrive first.


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