# First job, client's lawyer advised him to ask for sheet music from me besides audio



## Filip (Mar 19, 2022)

Hi! 
So, recently I've got my first job as a composer, which is very exciting for me, and even though it's not really related to my main speciality which is cinematic music, as I'm supossed to make it for relaxation, I'm still very happy with the fact that I finally will hopefully earn something from composing. 
The thing is, my client asks me for a score besides the audio files, since his lawyer told him that it would make it safer for him in case I'd like to claim he is using my music without my consent. It would obviously double the amount of work, of which I informed him about. I offered to isolate the tracks for every single piece, but I'm not sure if that reasurred him enough. 

Could you please advise me, if there are any other ways to make this guy sure that I won't deceive him, I'm sure that usually producers-composers don't have to make additional sheet scores, just for client's safety right? Are there any other ways that can ensure this client that I won't try to trick him?

We'll also sign a contract regarding this job, so shouldn't that be enough for making it impossible for me to claim that he is using my tracks illegally?

Best Regards!


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## MauroPantin (Mar 19, 2022)

I'm not a lawyer, but a contract should be enough to determine who owns what. It's a licensing deal, I take it? I'm not sure what the sheet music has to do with anything in that regard. Having access to the sheet music of something does not make you the author or the owner of any rights or license to use it, as far as I know. 

But hey, he has a lawyer and I'm not sure it is wise to fight him on this even if the lawyer is providing nonsensical advice. If he wants the sheet music, he wants the sheet music, and he's the client. I would just not question what the reason is, charge him accordingly for the extra deliverables and get it done. As long as you have a contract for the deal you'll be fine, he'll be fine, and you'll both be happy.


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## JJP (Mar 19, 2022)

Filip said:


> The thing is, my client asks me for a score besides the audio files, since his lawyer told him that it would make it safer for him in case I'd like to claim he is using my music without my consent.


Wow, so the client is already bracing for you to try to file a claim against them before you are even hired? The whole point of having a written agreement is to clearly lay out the rights and responsibilities of everyone involved to avoid these kinds of disputes.

Requesting sheet music may be one of those things a lawyer tells them to request because the lawyer assumes it is already being created and therefore can be easily handed over as part of the work product. However, a license to use music rarely includes a demand for sheet music matching the licensed music. Beyond that, it would be pure silliness to think that possessing the sheet music enables someone to prove they have a license to use the music. Possessing the sheet music does nothing to prove that a person has a license to use the music. 

I speak as an orchestrator, arranger, music transcriber, and music copyist. I create tens of thousands of pages of sheet music every year, most of it for film and television productions. Possession of all this sheet music gives me no right to use the music in any way without a license agreement, even when it is my own arrangements.

For much of the music created for media, there is simply no sheet music. If the client wants sheet music for everything, then that is an added service for which the client will have to pay. I do this type of work daily, so I can tell you that it is not light work and is best handled by professionals. The production can hire hire those professionals. In the USA, we are happy to work for minimum union scale.


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## HCMarkus (Mar 19, 2022)

What everybody else said, silly request, but if you are working with MIDI, you could probably have your DAW spit out draft sheet music and make some extra money.


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## José Herring (Mar 19, 2022)

HCMarkus said:


> What everybody else said, silly request, but if you are working with MIDI, you could probably have your DAW spit out draft sheet music and make some extra money.


+1. Sometimes it's better to just comply rather than fight it. Just spit out the midi score from the DAW. Maybe clean it up a bit if you have time.


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## Saxer (Mar 19, 2022)

You could send one of those "from DAW to Score" YT videos to your client to show that this is at least a day of extra work that has to be charged.
Most of the time those extra wishes are born out of naivety. If it generates extra cost they can decide if they need it or not.


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## GtrString (Mar 20, 2022)

Well, time should be part of the accounting anyway, no? So, if they want a score, charge the hrs to print a score.


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## MartinH. (Mar 20, 2022)

Just a thought: put the MD5 hashes of the delivered final files into the contract. That's something that can be easily verified at any later point in time as long as they keep the exact final files archived. Much easier to verify than going over sheet music manually. It just takes seconds to calculate an MD5 hash with an appropriate program and check if it's the same code as in the contract.


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## charlieclouser (Mar 20, 2022)

Printed sheet music for each and every cue has been a part of the deliverables required from me on most of my recent gigs. I believe it's mainly to provide a definitive defense against someone outside the production claiming that your music (and by extension, the production) has infringed on their copyright, by incorporating, either accidentally or on purpose, some elements of their prior compositions. Having the sheet music makes getting to the bottom of any such claims much easier, since it won't be entirely up to some musicologists on the witness stand playing audio examples for the jury and arguing back and forth. 

So while it was a big hassle for me to prepare the DAW files and outsource the transcriptions (and it cost me some bucks), it wasn't an option to just skip it. It was in the contract. It was required. Yes it's a hassle, but at least it draws a definitive line in the sand regarding what the actual music is behind the murky mess of audio that was on the stems I delivered.


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## NekujaK (Mar 20, 2022)

I scored a film last year in which the contract included a requirement to deliver written sheet music - in fact, multiple copies. However, this was in the context of having the score performed by an orchestra or ensemble. Since the music was mostly done in the box and/or performed by individual instrumentalists, it wasn't applicable, and I was able to convince the producers to strike it from the contract.

But in terms of using sheet music to prove consent, I could see how a conservative lawyer might recommend having written documentation identifying the music in addition to an audio file. Don't know how complex your music is, but in some cases a simple lead sheet might suffice - just chords, timing, and the melody.


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## Daryl (Mar 20, 2022)

It's no big deal. Just include the extra costs in the music production costs that you charge.


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## tmhuud (Mar 20, 2022)

That’s why I just hold down a single key for the entire score.


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## d.healey (Mar 20, 2022)

Give him the MIDI event list.


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## Filip (Mar 20, 2022)

So, firstly, thanks a lot for the answers! I think I'll just inform him that it will cost extra, as it increases the amount of work dramatically, hopefully it won't make him resign or anything like that.
But if he still insists on having the score, well I'll do it, I thought about doing that with my Daw which is Ableton and converting midi to MuseScore, but I noticed that when I import midi file, the score needs a lot of tweaking even if I match evertyhing to the grid beforehand, cause it looks terrible, is there a better software besides musescore that you would recommend for that purpose?


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## tmhuud (Mar 20, 2022)

Yeah, I remember when they asked for that starting when I was about 16 doing a small film. I sent them Mozarts last symphony. They didnt seem to notice. They did seem to notice how skinny I was and I should have asked for more money!


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## VVEremita (Mar 20, 2022)

Filip said:


> So, firstly, thanks a lot for the answers! I think I'll just inform him that it will cost extra, as it increases the amount of work dramatically, hopefully it won't make him resign or anything like that.
> But if he still insists on having the score, well I'll do it, I thought about doing that with my Daw which is Ableton and converting midi to MuseScore, but I noticed that when I import midi file, the score needs a lot of tweaking even if I match evertyhing to the grid beforehand, cause it looks terrible, is there a better software besides musescore that you would recommend for that purpose?


Reaper can display notation for MIDI tracks. You could get the trial version of Reaper, import the MIDI files (snapped to the grid) and see if that is a fast workaround. I don't know how good it is though. If musescore doesn't work for you, it could be worth a try - maybe it needs less tweaking. 

Maybe someone who actually worked with it can recommend it.


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## Antonio Zarza (Mar 20, 2022)

If I were you, I would sign a contract where you can put everything on it, your earnings, the time you spect finish and the extra changes they may want once you finish your work. Also if they need audio or audio+score and the cost of it. In the end is the only thing that proves the relation between the parts and it can be use as evidence in a trail (hope you won’t have to do that).

They having or not your score is irrelevant unless they register the work in any Intelectual Property Register without telling you and even then, they’ll have to prove how they compose it. I’m not sure about US copyright law but here in Spain your works is yours in the moment you have created, you don’t need to register them in any Intelectual Property Register to prove it’s yours if you have enough evidence to show in a trail.


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## gsilbers (Mar 20, 2022)

Filip said:


> So, firstly, thanks a lot for the answers! I think I'll just inform him that it will cost extra, as it increases the amount of work dramatically, hopefully it won't make him resign or anything like that.
> But if he still insists on having the score, well I'll do it, I thought about doing that with my Daw which is Ableton and converting midi to MuseScore, but I noticed that when I import midi file, the score needs a lot of tweaking even if I match evertyhing to the grid beforehand, cause it looks terrible, is there a better software besides musescore that you would recommend for that purpose?



Your problem might be ableton, not the lawyer. 

Maybe try something like this





MaxScore for Max and Ableton Live – Music Notation for Max and Ableton Live







www.computermusicnotation.com


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## José Herring (Mar 20, 2022)

Filip said:


> So, firstly, thanks a lot for the answers! I think I'll just inform him that it will cost extra, as it increases the amount of work dramatically, hopefully it won't make him resign or anything like that.
> But if he still insists on having the score, well I'll do it, I thought about doing that with my Daw which is Ableton and converting midi to MuseScore, but I noticed that when I import midi file, the score needs a lot of tweaking even if I match evertyhing to the grid beforehand, cause it looks terrible, is there a better software besides musescore that you would recommend for that purpose?


You have to quantize the end of the midi event also. If you do that it will transfer well.


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## JohnG (Mar 20, 2022)

*Easy Does It?*

I agree it can be onerous, but one strategy would be to produce the easiest possible output for you -- not a "full score" at all. For example, you could provide just two staves, the melody and bass line, and wait for them to ask for something else.

You could even offer just the main title and one or two other "conspicuous" cues that cover the principal musical material. It's not like they're ever going to do anything with it anyway and they won't actually want a foot-thick stack of paper.

If they _do_ insist on something that's going to take tons of time, then you could maybe ask for more money. But it might be possible to cut this request down so it's not super burdensome.

*Those Antiquated Contracts*

Some contracts are a hodgepodge of old agreements, and sometimes they are way out of date. I have (even recently) still received contracts that ask for DAT tapes(!), lyrics (for an instrumental score), electronic copies of midi (which I would never provide), and other nutty stuff. So, as you can discern, some contracts specify deliverables that nobody actually seems to want, or at least not enough to follow up on.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 20, 2022)

To make it even easier, just get a quote from someone who does printed scores for a living, maybe even someone on this forum. All you would need to do is send them the standard MIDI files, and have a pdf sent back to you showing the entire album as sheet music. After you get a quote, just tack on 15% and forward that to the client. If they don't want to pay it, then I'd say walk away.


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## cel4145 (Mar 20, 2022)

Daryl said:


> It's no big deal. Just include the extra costs in the music production costs that you charge.


Exactly. Just say OK, and tell them how many hours it will take to do it, and how much it will cost extra.

Then the ball is back in their court.


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## dcoscina (Mar 20, 2022)

José Herring said:


> +1. Sometimes it's better to just comply rather than fight it. Just spit out the midi score from the DAW. Maybe clean it up a bit if you have time.


sure- just print off the default from Cubase and see if they can make it out. LOL

Seriously though, as if a lawyer would be able to tell between a DAW print off score and an engraved one from finale/sibelius/dorico.


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## MauroPantin (Mar 21, 2022)

Filip said:


> So, firstly, thanks a lot for the answers! I think I'll just inform him that it will cost extra, as it increases the amount of work dramatically, hopefully it won't make him resign or anything like that.
> But if he still insists on having the score, well I'll do it, I thought about doing that with my Daw which is Ableton and converting midi to MuseScore, but I noticed that when I import midi file, the score needs a lot of tweaking even if I match evertyhing to the grid beforehand, cause it looks terrible, is there a better software besides musescore that you would recommend for that purpose?


As far as free notation editing, MuseScore is the best you're going to get. Anything else you have to pay for. Best MIDI import features I've seen are in the newest version of Dorico (Dorico 4) that was just released. It's pretty good, it detects legato playing automatically and adds the slurs for it. But depending on the size of the score it might be cheaper to outsource that job rather than getting the Dorico license... It also has a learning curve, I'm afraid.

If you want to DIY it, if I were you I would duplicate the project file, quantize the MIDI in a sensible way, remove all easy keyswitches and then import into MuseScore. From there you can have 2 MuseScore files open, one with a full orchestral score that you'll deliver (or whatever ensemble you are creating the sheet music for) and one with your MIDI file import. Then you just copy and paste the chunks from the MIDI file into their appropriate instruments in the delivery file, remove or correct any out of range notes, add articulations, tempo, text, etc. 

Since this is for legal purposes and not live performance, there's a lot of it that would usually be part of the music preparation process that you can probably just skip, like cues, performance notes, spacing, part condensing considerations. It still might take a day, though, depending on the length of the score.


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## studiostuff (Mar 21, 2022)

JohnG said:


> *Easy Does It?
> Those Antiquated Contracts*
> 
> Some contracts are a hodgepodge of old agreements, and sometimes they are way out of date. I have (even recently) still received contracts that ask for DAT tapes(!), lyrics (for an instrumental score), electronic copies of midi (which I would never provide), and other nutty stuff. So, as you can discern, some contracts specify deliverables that nobody actually seems to want, or at least not enough to follow up on.


I have received quite a few contract proposals like this. Definitely "DAT tapes" is a phrase lawyers have heard of somewhere... I usually ask them, "DIS tape?"

One of my faves was for a polished (6k$US for the DEMO recording) Synth/Sampler DEMO of a theme song for TV for which I was to also provide "orchestrations" until they were happy. And if they were unhappy with the "orchestrations", they would be permitted to hire their favorite orchestrator and I would cover any and all cost for that orchestrator's work.

We had a lengthy discussion of the meaning of the word "orchestration". Their frequent counter to my request for specific limits of the "orchestration" was, "C'mon, It's just a word..."

I thanked them and passed.


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## JohnG (Mar 21, 2022)

studiostuff said:


> Their frequent counter to my request for specific limits of the "orchestration" was, "C'mon, It's just a word..."


Well, "lawyer" is just a word too.


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## Luke W (Mar 22, 2022)

Many ad agencies who've hired a composer for a TV ad will then hire a copyright infringement expert to evaluate the composer's music for possible infringement concerns. I used to transcribe for one of these infringement experts and we never received a score from the composer - I transcribed from audio only. 

This situation is different but the ad agency hired out the transcription they wanted for legal purposes, rather than expecting from the composer. Having a third party do that work insured that the composer wouldn't fudge the transcription to obscure a blatant John Williams motif ripoff or something. The ad agency couldn't read my transcriptions, but they felt confident it was accurate should they be sued. Again, this situation is different is several ways - just offering a related situation for reference.


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## madbulk (Mar 22, 2022)

Rather as Luke W said, if an accusation of copying were to be made, the relevant parts of the two works would be transcribed from audio. Nobody would ask for your score, not in the early stages anyway.


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## PaulieDC (Mar 22, 2022)

So what's a reasonable hourly rate to also produce full score for music you are contracted to deliver as audio? Now that I'm doing that task, I'm understanding all of the nuances if you needed to deliver score for an orchestra, which is concert pitch for the conductor and transposed parts for the instrumentalists, especially if it's the horns and clarinets. All that takes time, so if you charge hourly, that can add up, but you can't shortchange yourself. I'll throw out $30/hour, is that resonable? My rates for Photoshop editing for images such as restorations and magazine covers is $75/hour but I'm thinking a music client would balk at that for the score.


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## JJP (Mar 22, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> I'll throw out $30/hour, is that resonable?


Minimum rates for transcribing start at $50/hr (health and pension contrubutions included) in the USA for low-budget film. Talk to someone who does this work. Rates can very depending on source material and what needs to be delivered.


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## PaulieDC (Mar 22, 2022)

JJP said:


> Minimum rates for transcribing start at $50/hr (health and pension contrubutions included) in the USA for low-budget film. Talk to someone who does this work. Rates can very depending on source material and what needs to be delivered.


I don't have the need now but this is great info. Thanks!


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## MauroPantin (Mar 23, 2022)

PaulieDC said:


> So what's a reasonable hourly rate to also produce full score for music you are contracted to deliver as audio? Now that I'm doing that task, I'm understanding all of the nuances if you needed to deliver score for an orchestra, which is concert pitch for the conductor and transposed parts for the instrumentalists, especially if it's the horns and clarinets. All that takes time, so if you charge hourly, that can add up, but you can't shortchange yourself. I'll throw out $30/hour, is that resonable? My rates for Photoshop editing for images such as restorations and magazine covers is $75/hour but I'm thinking a music client would balk at that for the score.


It depends on the software you are using, but transposing instruments tend to be handled automatically by most, so it's not something that should take much of your time. Parts and full score are all done at the same time. The bulk of the work is spent elsewhere. It used to be condensing parts, but Dorico solved 80% of that for me. Nowadays, one (or several) of these takes most of the time: 

- Cleaning up the MIDI file (if any)

- Transcribing the music if there's no MIDI source if not. And praying to god that the composer did not use Albion IV or some other "one key, a thousand notes" library when that happens

- If you're also orchestrating, you need to figure out if what's on the MIDI is enough to make it sound like the mockup or not, figure out dynamics, similar timbre unison doublings, etc. This usually depends on the libraries used and template balance the original composer had, not always a straight shot

- Formatting if the ensemble is uncommon. Everything else you can have templates for, so this one is not a big offender


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## JJP (Mar 23, 2022)

MauroPantin said:


> Parts and full score are all done at the same time. The bulk of the work is spent elsewhere. It used to be condensing parts, but Dorico solved 80% of that for me.



Seriously? For parts Dorico determines the phrasing for line breaks, the most musical locations for page turns, checks for enhamonic oddities, proofreads?


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## MauroPantin (Mar 23, 2022)

JJP said:


> Seriously? For parts Dorico determines the phrasing for line breaks, the most musical locations for page turns, checks for enhamonic oddities, proofreads?


I wish! 

Maybe I am not explaining myself correctly. I mean just the condensing. You get two flute staves and you have to turn that into a single staff for parts. And yes, of course, "copy into voice" in Sib or Finale. It was doable. But then you had to manually go and enter all the "a2" "1." "solo" etc. As you know, when you have an entire symphony to prep that is grueling. I even coded a couple of plugins for Sibelius to avoid some of that stuff and it still demanded time, it was a pain in the butt and took ages for me. In Dorico I can have both separate staves for each individual instrument, then condense as needed, all the indications for grouping and soloing are added automatically, and it works as expected around 80% of the time. The other 20% you have to manually tweak, but you already saved a ton of time.

Then, of course, you have to perform all the tasks you've mentioned for each part and for the score. But I don't consider that part of the condensing process... so I'm not sure if I should have separated that sentence into two paragraphs or where I was unclear?


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