# A different take on Cubase templates



## Grizzlymv

For those who like to work with templates, we all know there's several different approach that exist. Personally, I've been experimenting with several of them in the past few years. From a empty one where you load your instruments from the browser/library tab, to an all disabled tracks (1000+ tracks), using quickloads, or a mix of disabled tracks with Vienna Ensemble Pro, or even to go all VEP across one or several computers, each of them provides pros and cons (which I won't go in details here as it would be too long) and while they worked to various degrees, none of them reached the level of agility/scalability/functionality that I've been experiencing using the one below for me.

For the past few months, I decided to give a shot using track presets and the internal browser. So I started from my all disabled tracks template, and saved each one of them as an individual Track Preset. Over time, I kept growing the DB with new samples, or variation of existing ones as I was working on projects. The cool thing about this, is that you can customize a track (instrument) to your liking, save it, and it's already there and ready to go for any other project in the future.

Many of you might already know about track presets, so it won't be anything new. But for me, it's how you can easily work with them once you took the time to properly set the browser and saved your presets with all relevant info. Then it becomes a very powerful tool!

When you add a track from a preset (right-click Add Track / Using track presets, or like me, mapped a button on a HW controller), it presents you with a nice browser where you can search per different tags/fields/category or just start typing text and Cubase will find all relevant entries instantly.





Obviously, the more detailed you make your instruments information, the more efficient the search will be in the future. In my case, I added Plugin Vendor for the dev (ie Heavyocity), Album for the name library (ie Scoring Guitars) and comment as I like to add some extra comments which help categorizing the instrument. then you can adjust the columns to show in the browser/add track screen too.





The nice thing is you can define which fields you want to use or don't, so you're not forced to go with what Cubase present you with by default. There's several other fields available to use depending on your needs





Also, by default Cubase will have a bunch of stuff in the browser, mainly coming from the bundled VST that comes with Cubase. I didn't want to see them so I did a clean up and removed everything from the DB and only display the track preset I did, based on my libraries. Makes it for a much cleaner and relevant experience for me.






That's a purely subjective list of pros and cons based on my personal taste and experience. 
Pros
- You can start from a very lightweight template. In my case, it contains the folders, group tracks, fx tracks, tempo, video, audio and markers.
- Project files are much smaller (just a few Mb, compare to almost 1 Gb with an all disabled tracks).
- Very easy to search for instruments.
- Almost as quick to add an instrument then enabling a track.
- Easy and quick to maintain
- A track preset retains everything about the instruments (settings in the VST, EQ on the tracks, volume, balance, midi channel, inserts, etc). The only thing it doesn't seem to save are Sends and Routing)
- Track presets are actually just an XML file saved on the HDD, so the way it's displayed on the browser is how you structure them on the HDD. Make it easy to share with colleagues when you work on shared project (you must own the same libs though).
- you can save individual tracks (which I do), or multiple tracks at once (for a string section for instance)
- Fairly quick to save an track preset too, so if you do some nice custom settings on an instrument, you can save it and add it to your DB easily, so it's available for a future project.
- Don't have to re-do templates all over again.

Cons
- So far, the routing and sends aren't saved with a track preset, so you have to bind them as you load an instrument. However, this can easily be attenuated by using the Q-Link function in the mix screen which allow to change settings across multiple tracks at once.
- takes quite some time to build the DB.
- It's a Cubase specific feature
- Saving a track preset only shows few default fields. If you added custom or extra ones, you'll have to do a second pass through the MediaBay browser to add missing data.


Anyway, it may not be the next best thing in town, but for me it's day and night with any previously used approach. The main downside is that it takes quite some time to build it properly (took me a few days to build the initial DB), but it's worth the effort once you start using it.

I never really seen this approach being discussed or covered in tutorials and since it makes it much more functional for me, I wanted to share it in case it can also be interesting for others.

I know I can't do without it anymore. 

Update June 2021:
Here's a video overview of how I'm using it. Hope it's gonna be useful to some. Feel free to ask any questions:


Cheers


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## Mike Bonta

Wow, thank you! That's agreat ideea!


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## matthieuL

Interesting and very tempting ! Thanks for sharing.
But the main downside for me is that, as soon we have an orchestra for example, the file size becomes too much big and so we have too long save times.


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## Grizzlymv

matthieuL said:


> Interesting and very tempting ! Thanks for sharing.
> But the main downside for me is that, as soon we have an orchestra for example, the file size becomes too much big and so we have too long save times.


That's true. the more tracks you have, the bigger the CPR file size gets and slower is the save and loading of the project file. However, it's still way smaller (faster) than using a full disabled tracks in Cubase, and the same impact as if you start with a blank project and add instrument tracks as you go. But if you're using VEP and all of your tracks are MIDI Rack tracks (instead of Instrument tracks) with only a few instances of VEP connectors, then yes obviously, CPR file size will be smaller and therefore loading/saving time reduced. At the end of the day, it's a personal choice on where you want to do your tradeoffs, as you have to do some no matter which solutions you use. For me, I can deal with the loading/saving time as I don't always work with a full orchestra template. the pros of the track presets largely outcomes the cons. but again, it's not the same for everyone.


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## Grizzlymv

To add to my first post, here's a few more tips for those interested to give it a shot. 

By default, Cubase comes with a bunch of VSTs (Halion, Padshop, Retrologue, etc) which all comes with track presets as well. So if you open the Media Browser (F5) you'll end up with a bunch of instrument there that may not be of interest to you. Or if like me, you prefer to have only the content you created in there, you might want to start fresh. To do so

1) in the Media Bay, make sure to uncheck all folders, except the Track Presets one.




2) Select the Track Presets folder, or if like me you only use individual instruments/tracks, select Instrument:




3) If not already done, click on the Star at the top to add it as Favorites (in my case, I added Track Presets, Instrument and Multi in the favorites). Icon should be white. If grayed out like in the screenshot below, that means it's already in favorites list.




4) and then, to keep things clean, in the settings screen (first wheel on the top right of the MediaBay screen), make sure to check "Show only selected Folder" and increase the maximum items in results list. I set to to 10000. 





That way, when you open the Add Track Preset screen, or the MediaBay, it will search only within your content, given that you save your track preset in the default Track Presets folder hierarchy (like I did) which should be located in your user profile (C:\Users\<your username>\AppData\Roaming\Steinberg\Track Presets). I don't know on Mac though. 

Then the way I saved my track preset is as follow:

under Track Presets \ Instrument folder, I created a folder per vendor (or developper) so:

- Track Presets
- Instruments
- Cinematic Studio Series
- Spitfire Audio
- ...

And then within each vendor folder, I added 1 folder per libraries if I intend to have multiple track presets
- Track Presets
- Instruments
- Cinematic Studio Series
- CSS
- CSSS
- CSB
- Spitfire Audio
- Albion One
- Albion Tundra
- ...
- ...

And then I would save my track preset within the library folder. 
- Track Presets
- Instruments
- Cinematic Studio Series
- CSS
- Basses Bartok Snap.trackpreset
- Basses Col Legno.trackpreset
- Basses Measured Trem.trackpreset
- ...

or if it's a single instrument and have only 1 track preset for it, then I would save it at the root of the vendor folder
- Track Presets
- Instruments
- Cinematic Studio Series
- CSPiano (Reverb).trackpreset





But then, since it's only xml like files on a HDD, you can easily go in your track preset folder, and reorganize it the way you want and it will show up instantly accordingly in the MediaBay and AddTrack screens. Much easier/faster to do it outside of Cubase then within the MediaBay.  So really, you can organize it the way you want and add the metadata you want so in the end it works to your liking.

Have fun trying it out. Don't hesitate if you have any questions. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts as well if you try it out. 

Cheers.


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## Sample Fuel

I too am going this route.....but the not saving the sens and routing is too big of a deal. I am heavily pushing Steinberg to add this on their beta forum right now for Cubase 11. LOGIC already has this well implemented and it is a very easy thing for Steinberg to add since this information is already implemented in track archive import/export. 

Now is the time to push for this. Please go onto Steinberg's public Cubase forum and re-post what you wrote here in detail but with the purpose to get the full routing and sends added to the feature set of Cubase 11. I will chime in over there once you post.

Thanks


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## Grizzlymv

Sample Fuel said:


> I too am going this route.....but the not saving the sens and routing is too big of a deal. I am heavily pushing Steinberg to add this on their beta forum right now for Cubase 11. LOGIC already has this well implemented and it is a very easy thing for Steinberg to add since this information is already implemented in track archive import/export.
> 
> Now is the time to push for this. Please go onto Steinberg's public Cubase forum and re-post what you wrote here in detail but with the purpose to get the full routing and sends added to the feature set of Cubase 11. I will chime in over there once you post.
> 
> Thanks


I'll check to post it on Cubase forums. I'm curious though about how big is the impact for you regarding the missing Sends / Routing? 

In my case, I leverage the Q-Link functionality of the mixer which allow me to quickly set the Sends and routing of multiple tracks at once. 






Then you select the right Routing for the selection





And it will change all selected tracks to the same routing. 





Same concept for Sends. You click on a Send from ONE of the selected tracks (make sure Q-Link is enabled):





Then you edit only that track, and all selected will copy the setting live, from the one you're editing, as long as the Q-Link option is activated. Then you can uncheck Q-Link and fine tune a Sends setting for a specific track. 







I agree, the best would be that cubase saves it as part of the track preset, but in the meantime, while a bit annoying, that workaround is relatively fast/easy to use depending on how you use them. 

Cheers


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## Sample Fuel

It is a huge issue for me. I have to work extremely fast and even a few seconds would break my workflow. Steinberg knows all about this and with a little pushing I think they will add it to Cubase 11. PLease repost in their forum.

LOGIC has a simple great implementation that Steinberg should do something similar.

Here is a screen shot of what LOGIC does....


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## Sample Fuel

Grizzlymv said:


> I'll check to post it on Cubase forums. I'm curious though about how big is the impact for you regarding the missing Sends / Routing?
> 
> In my case, I leverage the Q-Link functionality of the mixer which allow me to quickly set the Sends and routing of multiple tracks at once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you select the right Routing for the selection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it will change all selected tracks to the same routing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same concept for Sends. You click on a Send from ONE of the selected tracks (make sure Q-Link is enabled):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you edit only that track, and all selected will copy the setting live, from the one you're editing, as long as the Q-Link option is activated. Then you can uncheck Q-Link and fine tune a Sends setting for a specific track.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, the best would be that cubase saves it as part of the track preset, but in the meantime, while a bit annoying, that workaround is relatively fast/easy to use depending on how you use them.
> 
> Cheers


Yes there are some fairly quick work arounds....you can also copy a mixer channel of something similar and than hilight all the new channels and hit paste.


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## Grizzlymv

Sample Fuel said:


> Yes there are some fairly quick work arounds....you can also copy a mixer channel of something similar and than hilight all the new channels and hit paste.


Thanks for sharing. I didn't know that one. Pretty cool trick


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## OLB

Interesting approach, thanks for sharing! 

Just tried it on Nuendo 10.3 and it seems to remember all the sends. That's great. The output routing unfortunately is set to Stereo Out.


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## jeffreycl

Thanks for all this. I discovered Media Bay for sound effects earlier this year but never thought about track presets. I had been looking for something that didn't cost an arm and a leg to search through my SFX. I discovered the same functionality you showed in early posts about narrowing down the locations. Suddenly I found that I had all the functionality of paid SFX databases right within Cubase. I could search key words and it quickly brings in the list and just by using the up and down arrow keys, I can preview the list until I find the sound I'm looking for. Media Bay now occupies half of one of the four screens I use. I am definitely going to look into track presets as well and probably build the database as I go (or need a distraction to clear my mind).


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## Grizzlymv

OLB said:


> Interesting approach, thanks for sharing!
> 
> Just tried it on Nuendo 10.3 and it seems to remember all the sends. That's great. The output routing unfortunately is set to Stereo Out.


I've noticed in Cubase that it happen sometime as well, but it was only when I saved the track preset from the active project I was working on, and then loading the track preset again, without closing/reopening my project. As soon as it's a newly loaded or different project (but still with the same group tracks and FX tracks) it doesn't remember the mapping. In Nuendo, if you save from a project, then load another project that has the same group/fx tracks and load the track preset, can you confirm it still works?


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## Grizzlymv

jeffreycl said:


> Thanks for all this. I discovered Media Bay for sound effects earlier this year but never thought about track presets. I had been looking for something that didn't cost an arm and a leg to search through my SFX. I discovered the same functionality you showed in early posts about narrowing down the locations. Suddenly I found that I had all the functionality of paid SFX databases right within Cubase. I could search key words and it quickly brings in the list and just by using the up and down arrow keys, I can preview the list until I find the sound I'm looking for. Media Bay now occupies half of one of the four screens I use. I am definitely going to look into track presets as well and probably build the database as I go (or need a distraction to clear my mind).


I know! That's exactly what brought me into using track presets. I didn't want something specific to a plugin (ie kontakt quickloads) but wanted to cover any plugins I have (Play, Kontakt, Spitfire Audio, SINE, etc). the MediaBay is doing just that and it's so quick to find instruments with it. With this, you put the tech away, and focus on the creativity without losing your inspiration. I'm still surprised I can't see much discussions around this functionality given how powerful it is, albeit you take the time to build it properly.


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## OLB

Grizzlymv said:


> I've noticed in Cubase that it happen sometime as well, but it was only when I saved the track preset from the active project I was working on, and then loading the track preset again, without closing/reopening my project. As soon as it's a newly loaded or different project (but still with the same group tracks and FX tracks) it doesn't remember the mapping. In Nuendo, if you save from a project, then load another project that has the same group/fx tracks and load the track preset, can you confirm it still works?


Alright - I restart Nuendo, then open an empty project. Import the Group tracks (bussing) and FX tracks from my template. Then I open the track preset (Kontakt with some inserts etc) and it has all the sends there connected to the appropriate FX route. The output to the Stereo Out. That would be the only one to change accordingly. 

I‘d find it strange that it would be different than Cubase so could it be that it has to do with the bussing system?


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## Grizzlymv

Sample Fuel said:


> I too am going this route.....but the not saving the sens and routing is too big of a deal. I am heavily pushing Steinberg to add this on their beta forum right now for Cubase 11. LOGIC already has this well implemented and it is a very easy thing for Steinberg to add since this information is already implemented in track archive import/export.
> 
> Now is the time to push for this. Please go onto Steinberg's public Cubase forum and re-post what you wrote here in detail but with the purpose to get the full routing and sends added to the feature set of Cubase 11. I will chime in over there once you post.
> 
> Thanks


Here's the link to the thread on the Cubase forum in case anyone wants to chime in so Steinberg revisit the track presets and add the support for Sends/Route support, and a few other things I suggested to improve the track presets: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=193522&sid=fc0b6d2638343a61fab8b06cfb2cbf0d

cheers.


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## telecode101

..


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## MoeWalsaad

Thanks for sharing,

as for Track presets, back during Cubase 8 times, I used your very similar Track presets to save a large amount of instrument track libraries, but I gave up on this mainly because I couldn't load several presets at once back at that time, and also the track preset window takes too much time to load, maybe because I used a slow HDD back then, or track presets were reading from too many unnecessary directories.

but I like how you optimize the track preset window, you encourage me to give this method another shot. and see what updates were done to the Track presets menu during these years, if the reading is fast I will probably switch back to the track preset method.

in case this may help bring some insights to your method, right now I'm also testing a workflow that makes use of Cubase feature of "Importing tracks from another project", and what I'm doing is preparing a super Grand Template project that has all my favorite libraries loaded. I don't use that project to create music, but I only import from it all the instruments that I want.

One good thing about importing a track from another project is that it can preserve the routing, but you need similar channel groups with the same names ready in your main project.

the cons so far are that It's a slow process. especially if you are importing from a large project, also reading a huge list is eye-fatiguing and easy to miss or forget to check some tracks that I wanted to import.
I still need more time to put this method on functional practice and optimize it further. and maybe create a hybrid method between importing and Track Presets similar to yours.

Thanks for sharing.


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## Hywel

MoeWalsaad said:


> Thanks for sharing,
> 
> as for Track presets, back during Cubase 8 times, I used your very similar Track presets to save a large amount of instrument track libraries, but I gave up on this mainly because I couldn't load several presets at once back at that time, and also the track preset window takes too much time to load, maybe because I used a slow HDD back then, or track presets were reading from too many unnecessary directories.
> 
> but I like how you optimize the track preset window, you encourage me to give this method another shot. and see what updates were done to the Track presets menu during these years, if the reading is fast I will probably switch back to the track preset method.
> 
> in case this may help bring some insights to your method, right now I'm also testing a workflow that makes use of Cubase feature of "Importing tracks from another project", and what I'm doing is preparing a super Grand Template project that has all my favorite libraries loaded. I don't use that project to create music, but I only import from it all the instruments that I want.
> 
> One good thing about importing a track from another project is that it can preserve the routing, but you need similar channel groups with the same names ready in your main project.
> 
> the cons so far are that It's a slow process. especially if you are importing from a large project, also reading a huge list is eye-fatiguing and easy to miss or forget to check some tracks that I wanted to import.
> I still need more time to put this method on functional practice and optimize it further. and maybe create a hybrid method between importing and Track Presets similar to yours.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.


This is my favoured method as well of loading tracks into a "bare bones" sketch template.


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## Grizzlymv

MoeWalsaad said:


> in case this may help bring some insights to your method, right now I'm also testing a workflow that makes use of Cubase feature of "Importing tracks from another project", and what I'm doing is preparing a super Grand Template project that has all my favorite libraries loaded. I don't use that project to create music, but I only import from it all the instruments that I want.
> 
> One good thing about importing a track from another project is that it can preserve the routing, but you need similar channel groups with the same names ready in your main project.
> 
> the cons so far are that It's a slow process. especially if you are importing from a large project, also reading a huge list is eye-fatiguing and easy to miss or forget to check some tracks that I wanted to import.


That's interesting too. I did explore that avenue when I moved to Cubase 10.5 before exploring the track presets. However it wasn't working for me. To start with, my main reference project was probably too big so whenever I tried to import a track from that project, it would take forever to load, and sometime even crash. Was working better with split projects (orchestral tracks in one, other tracks in another CPR). When it was working it was great though, however, my main complain was that I had to remember which tracks was what with no real way to search for an instrument rather than scrolling and remembering which track was what. I feel the import from project feature works best when you recently worked on a project and want to bring back some tracks, or if you are working on something that will require several cues to share similar sounds, then this becomes very handy. 

The main power With the Track Preset approach for me, is that I can expand the information regarding an instrument (track) and quickly do a search for a specific style/sound based on various information rather than on a specific track, and the result is instant. This is a game changer for me. It also works with any plugins (Kontakt, Play, Sine, etc). It's fast and flexible. I don't have that with the import from project feature. Or maybe I used the track import in the wrong way, but so far for me the cons of the track presets are smaller than the cons of the track imports.

If you try the hybrid approach though, I'd be curious to know more about it though. Maybe it could be the best of both worlds.


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## Sample Fuel

Grizzlymv said:


> That's interesting too. I did explore that avenue when I moved to Cubase 10.5 before exploring the track presets. However it wasn't working for me. To start with, my main reference project was probably too big so whenever I tried to import a track from that project, it would take forever to load, and sometime even crash. Was working better with split projects (orchestral tracks in one, other tracks in another CPR). When it was working it was great though, however, my main complain was that I had to remember which tracks was what with no real way to search for an instrument rather than scrolling and remembering which track was what. I feel the import from project feature works best when you recently worked on a project and want to bring back some tracks, or if you are working on something that will require several cues to share similar sounds, then this becomes very handy.
> 
> The main power With the Track Preset approach for me, is that I can expand the information regarding an instrument (track) and quickly do a search for a specific style/sound based on various information rather than on a specific track, and the result is instant. This is a game changer for me. It also works with any plugins (Kontakt, Play, Sine, etc). It's fast and flexible. I don't have that with the import from project feature. Or maybe I used the track import in the wrong way, but so far for me the cons of the track presets are smaller than the cons of the track imports.
> 
> If you try the hybrid approach though, I'd be curious to know more about it though. Maybe it could be the best of both worlds.




This is precisely why we need Steinberg to fully implement all routing in track presets for the mediabay. I am not hopeful that this will make it into Cubase 11 but if you take this conversation to the Steinberg Cubase forums I am hopeful that they will implement this for 11.5. They are well aware of the need for this it is just a matter of priority....so if you take it to their forums it has a better chance of getting implemented sooner than later.


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## Grizzlymv

Sample Fuel said:


> This is precisely why we need Steinberg to fully implement all routing in track presets for the mediabay. I am not hopeful that this will make it into Cubase 11 but if you take this conversation to the Steinberg Cubase forums I am hopeful that they will implement this for 11.5. They are well aware of the need for this it is just a matter of priority....so if you take it to their forums it has a better chance of getting implemented sooner than later.


It's already there "https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=193522&sid=fc0b6d2638343a61fab8b06cfb2cbf0d" if you want to weight in. Someone said in nuendo the routing is already supported so there's a chance we have it in cubase 11. Let's hope they will also do the sends as well.


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## Sample Fuel

Grizzlymv said:


> It's already there "https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=193522&sid=fc0b6d2638343a61fab8b06cfb2cbf0d" if you want to weight in. Someone said in nuendo the routing is already supported so there's a chance we have it in cubase 11. Let's hope they will also do the sends as well.


I doubt this person was correct. I am in touch directly with Steinberg and this was all a new improvement that needs to be addressed. They know about it and never mentioned that this is a working Nuendo feature.


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## Sample Fuel

I have also already posted in the Steinberg forum from your link but hopefully more people will go there and post.


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## Mishabou

Grizzlymv said:


> That's true. the more tracks you have, the bigger the CPR file size gets and slower is the save and loading of the project file. However, it's still way smaller (faster) than using a full disabled tracks in Cubase, and the same impact as if you start with a blank project and add instrument tracks as you go. But if you're using VEP and all of your tracks are MIDI Rack tracks (instead of Instrument tracks) with only a few instances of VEP connectors, then yes obviously, CPR file size will be smaller and therefore loading/saving time reduced. At the end of the day, it's a personal choice on where you want to do your tradeoffs, as you have to do some no matter which solutions you use. For me, I can deal with the loading/saving time as I don't always work with a full orchestra template. the pros of the track presets largely outcomes the cons. but again, it's not the same for everyone.



Hey there,

I've been working with Track Presets in PT for the past couple of years and love it. I also use CB when collaborating with other composers so i plan to switch to a Track Preset base template and have a few questions.
How many track presets do you have saved ? Do you feel CB is more sluggish as the DB for Track Presets grows ? 
I basically have all my libraries saved as Track Presets in PT, well over 25K and there is zero impact on performance and save time. From your reply above, it seems not the case with CB.


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## Grizzlymv

Mishabou said:


> Hey there,
> 
> I've been working with Track Presets in PT for the past couple of years and love it. I also use CB when collaborating with other composers so i plan to switch to a Track Preset base template and have a few questions.
> How many track presets do you have saved ? Do you feel CB is more sluggish as the DB for Track Presets grows ?
> I basically have all my libraries saved as Track Presets in PT, well over 25K and there is zero impact on performance and save time. From your reply above, it seems not the case with CB.


25k track presets?..damn... I only have 1242 so far.. I did notice slight delay in my Cinematic Studio Series folders, but not in any others, so I wonder if it's just a HDD issue or something. In any case, I could save it in another location easily and just move it from Windows Explorer to the right folder afterward. The MediaBay do not suffer from any delay on my side. Actually, the only delay is the fact that the MediaBay try to load in memory the vst as a preview. I wish there would be an option to load or not load it, since the metadata is already in the trackpreset file, unless you want to hear a preview, we should be able to not load the sound. 

But bottom line, it's the fastest option for me so far. I'm impressed how fast the MediaBay can return results (it's almost instant here).


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## Mishabou

Grizzlymv said:


> 25k track presets?..damn... I only have 1242 so far.. I did notice slight delay in my Cinematic Studio Series folders, but not in any others, so I wonder if it's just a HDD issue or something. In any case, I could save it in another location easily and just move it from Windows Explorer to the right folder afterward. The MediaBay do not suffer from any delay on my side. Actually, the only delay is the fact that the MediaBay try to load in memory the vst as a preview. I wish there would be an option to load or not load it, since the metadata is already in the trackpreset file, unless you want to hear a preview, we should be able to not load the sound.
> 
> But bottom line, it's the fastest option for me so far. I'm impressed how fast the MediaBay can return results (it's almost instant here).




You can simply disable the preview by closing the lower pane within the Media Browser window.

The delay with CSS happens when you're browsing within the Media Browser ?


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## Grizzlymv

Mishabou said:


> You can simply disable the preview by closing the lower pane within the Media Browser window.
> 
> The delay with CSS happens when you're browsing within the Media Browser ?


Thx for the tip. I didn't think it would be that simple!  as for the delay with CSs, it happen only when I try to save a new track preset in some of its subfolders. Doesn't happen anywhere else. so not a big deal.


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## Mishabou

I really like the way you'v lay out your Media Browser, i have a couple questions:

- If i want to edit the Metadata associated with a Track Preset, do i need to load it into a project, edit within attribute inspector and re save or is there a faster way ?

- You mentioned you deleted all CB's presets, what's the best way to do this ? I assume you also deleted all associated samples ?

Thanks


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## Grizzlymv

Mishabou said:


> I really like the way you'v lay out your Media Browser, i have a couple questions:
> 
> - If i want to edit the Metadata associated with a Track Preset, do i need to load it into a project, edit within attribute inspector and re save or is there a faster way ?
> 
> - You mentioned you deleted all CB's presets, what's the best way to do this ? I assume you also deleted all associated samples ?
> 
> Thanks


To edit the metadata, k do it from the mediabay. So you have to do it from cubase. You can edit the .trackpresets file with a text editor such as notepad++ which will be in a similar structure as an XML file, but I never tried to edit a file that way yet. 

As for your second question, I just unselected all folders except for the trackpresets one. Actually I now use only the instrument folder in the trackpresets. Cubase will only display the content from your selected root folder and it's subfolders . There's no saved database. The mediabay display all .trackpresets files found in the selected root or its subfolders. 

Hope that make sense.


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

MoeWalsaad said:


> Thanks for sharing,
> 
> as for Track presets, back during Cubase 8 times, I used your very similar Track presets to save a large amount of instrument track libraries, but I gave up on this mainly because I couldn't load several presets at once back at that time, and also the track preset window takes too much time to load, maybe because I used a slow HDD back then, or track presets were reading from too many unnecessary directories.
> 
> but I like how you optimize the track preset window, you encourage me to give this method another shot. and see what updates were done to the Track presets menu during these years, if the reading is fast I will probably switch back to the track preset method.
> 
> in case this may help bring some insights to your method, right now I'm also testing a workflow that makes use of Cubase feature of "Importing tracks from another project", and what I'm doing is preparing a super Grand Template project that has all my favorite libraries loaded. I don't use that project to create music, but I only import from it all the instruments that I want.
> 
> One good thing about importing a track from another project is that it can preserve the routing, but you need similar channel groups with the same names ready in your main project.
> 
> the cons so far are that It's a slow process. especially if you are importing from a large project, also reading a huge list is eye-fatiguing and easy to miss or forget to check some tracks that I wanted to import.
> I still need more time to put this method on functional practice and optimize it further. and maybe create a hybrid method between importing and Track Presets similar to yours.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.


The import tracks from another project is a great feature. Since cb10.5 the folder structure is also there and you can close folders all at once and open them like in the projects. This might help in finding tracks in a big project faster.


----------



## Mishabou

Grizzlymv said:


> To edit the metadata, k do it from the mediabay. So you have to do it from cubase. You can edit the .trackpresets file with a text editor such as notepad++ which will be in a similar structure as an XML file, but I never tried to edit a file that way yet.
> 
> As for your second question, I just unselected all folders except for the trackpresets one. Actually I now use only the instrument folder in the trackpresets. Cubase will only display the content from your selected root folder and it's subfolders . There's no saved database. The mediabay display all .trackpresets files found in the selected root or its subfolders.
> 
> Hope that make sense.




Do you know how to display the content of the Instruments folder in Media Bay in alphabetical ?

It displays properly on my HD (pic2) but not in the Mediabay (pic1)

Thx


----------



## Grizzlymv

Mishabou said:


> Do you know how to display the content of the Instruments folder in Media Bay in alphabetical ?
> 
> It displays properly on my HD (pic2) but not in the Mediabay (pic1)
> 
> Thx


Hmm. that's wierd! Here all is in alphabetical in both HDD and MediaBay. Actually, I haven't found a way to sort the folder list in a different order. Only the results (in the right pane) can be sorted by the column you select. It's also wierd that only Native Instrument appears on top and all the rest is in alphabetical. 

I did create a Native Instruments folder like you, just in case it was a hard coded name, but it appears in alphabetical on my side:





So seems like a glitch. if you close / reopen Cubase then the Media Bay, still the same?


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## Mishabou

It's not only Native Instruments but everything is out of whack. I created a few dummy folder and they are all over the place.

Close/reopen CB then MB does nothing. Strange...might be a Mac bug as people on PC don't seem to have it.


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## Mishabou

Trashing all preferences and update fixed the problem


----------



## Synetos

Thanks for sharing your approach! 

I stumbled on this thread when I was doing a search on presets and template ideas. I am also tired of not finding a workflow that I like. 

While I have a pretty powerful computer(s) with lots of ram, VEP just has gotten old for me. No slam on the product, just me not ever feeling like I can just get on with making music. No matter how many times I fumble around tweaking things, my templates just become awkward and unwieldy. Disabled tracks wasnt much better. 

I am going to give this a whirl. I tested a sample and it really seems quite viable. 

How do you back it up?


----------



## UDun

I actually implemented this approach last year as well that I found the most efficient so far. I even went one step further by combining the various patches (let's say Vln1_Legato, Vln1_Decorative... from Spitfire) into one single track preset. I am personally against the 1 track = 1 articulation approach that I find inspiration killing. I prefer to choose a 'real instrument' from the list to compose than a bunch of articulations.

I created expression maps for all them (took a while of course) and they are all normalized (similar keyswitches for main articulations). I also updated all controllers to manage the dynamic with the mod wheel, other parameters (like vibrato) via expression pedal so that there is no learning curve every time you add a track. Notepad at the track level was used extensively to document whatever needs to be remembered.

Only downside with this approach : if there is a major change like for instance an update from Kontakt 5 to Kontakt 6 it requires you to update every track preset accordingly. Otherwise easy to work with (even more since I moved everything to VE Pro to avoid the recurrent Cubase crashes with expression maps). I noticed as well some bugs with the tags in the track presets (sometimes not updated or Cubase doesn't seem to consider them, just resave the track preset and it works)

Edit - my track presets are named that way : [Instrument Family] - Instrument Name (number of instruments - for instance 8 violins, 6 violins...) - [Editor]. Just an easy way to sort things in the window.

Of course all of that is very dependent on one's workflow and approach.


----------



## Grizzlymv

Synetos said:


> Thanks for sharing your approach!
> 
> I stumbled on this thread when I was doing a search on presets and template ideas. I am also tired of not finding a workflow that I like.
> 
> While I have a pretty powerful computer(s) with lots of ram, VEP just has gotten old for me. No slam on the product, just me not ever feeling like I can just get on with making music. No matter how many times I fumble around tweaking things, my templates just become awkward and unwieldy. Disabled tracks wasnt much better.
> 
> I am going to give this a whirl. I tested a sample and it really seems quite viable.
> 
> How do you back it up?


You mean how do I keep a backup of all the track presets? that's fairly easy. Considering a track preset is basically just a file on the HDD, I copy the trackpresets folders structure to a backup drive. I have a scheduled task that run daily which basically do a robocopy of the structure.


----------



## Synetos

Grizzlymv said:


> You mean how do I keep a backup of all the track presets? that's fairly easy. Considering a track preset is basically just a file on the HDD, I copy the trackpresets folders structure to a backup drive. I have a scheduled task that run daily which basically do a robocopy of the structure.


K. Thanks
I do the same thing with scheduled task to robocopy my Recording drives to a second machine, then up to the cloud. I use scheduled tasks as well, so I will just add that to the cmd file. I wasnt sure if there was anything other than the trackpresets folder that was needed to be able to restore on a new build.


----------



## utopia

Interested in this approach, have a couple of questions. 
1. Is the folder structure in arrange window retained? For eg if you load a preset of a vlns 1 does it automatically go to *strings* folder you have on arrange view?
2. Similarly, what is the order in which the tracks end up laid out? I have a strict order in my disabled track template that follows standard orchestral score instrument order. 
thanks


----------



## Grizzlymv

utopia said:


> Interested in this approach, have a couple of questions.
> 1. Is the folder structure in arrange window retained? For eg if you load a preset of a vlns 1 does it automatically go to *strings* folder you have on arrange view?
> 2. Similarly, what is the order in which the tracks end up laid out? I have a strict order in my disabled track template that follows standard orchestral score instrument order.
> thanks


1. As far as I can tell, the folder is not retained, but the color is. So what I do is I go under the desired folder and I add my track from there. 

2. The order goes to how you load your tracks. It's the same as if you start with a blank project and add new tracks to it. So as with the previous point, you just select a track near where you want the new one, and it will appear below. So for instance, I want a new instrument under my 5th woodwinds, then I'd select the track of my 5th woodwind, then add a track preset, and it would appear as the 6th one. If that make sense?


----------



## Synetos

One thing I was wondering...is there a way to reorder the fields that are populated when you initially are saving a preset? 
It seems not to matter what I have selected in the Attribute inspector. All i get are the same six attributes that are the Cubase defaults when I try to save a new preset.


----------



## Grizzlymv

in the Save screen, you can't customize it today. I did open a request with Steinberg to allow this screen to be modified with the fields we select. Not sure if they will ever add this though. 
So it's basically a 2 steps process. 1, you save using (or not) the default fields in the save screen. 2, you get in the mediabay and you edit the fields you need from there (which is what I do). A little bummer, but you do it only once.


----------



## Synetos

Grizzlymv said:


> in the Save screen, you can't customize it today. I did open a request with Steinberg to allow this screen to be modified with the fields we select. Not sure if they will ever add this though.
> So it's basically a 2 steps process. 1, you save using (or not) the default fields in the save screen. 2, you get in the mediabay and you edit the fields you need from there (which is what I do). A little bummer, but you do it only once.


Okay. No wonder I couldnt find a way. Thanks


----------



## labornvain

I started using track presets about 5 years ago after spending over a month building a template with 2500 disabled tracks only to discover a bug in Cubase whereas the midi input would be lost when you re-enable each track.

That bug has since been fixed but it compelled me to not waste all the effort and I proceeded to save track presets for all 2500 tracks.

One thing that's really cool that I haven't seen mentioned is that you can also save multitrack presets. You just select multiple tracks at once, right click on one of them, and save track preset. So I have track presets that contain for example all of my violin Longs, all of my violin shorts etcetera.

Unfortunately, the database has been defective from the beginning. In 10.5, it seems to be a lot better, with less freezing and other issues.

But the unreliability has led me to avoid the database as much as possible, so I don't use any of the metadata or any of that part of the database functionality.

I merely organize everything into folders with a hierarchical structure the classifieds instrument types, like strings brass Etc, and then subfolders with the different instruments and their articulations.

These folders which you can access from the media manager are actual Windows folders so you can open them in Explorer and perform edits and reorganization and various other functions without having to use the database at all.

Once you're back in Cubase, open the database and refresh and any changes you made from within Explorer will be reflected.

Another benefit of just using the folder system is that it's really fast. I probably create a new track preset every time I open Cubase. I have them for my orchestral libraries, my guitars, various other instruments, vocals, mixbus, etc etc Etc. and lots of effects.

I can find them all easily because they're all sorted into their little folders and they're named carefully.

I also create dedicated folders of track presets for specific projects. This is fairly useful cuz sometimes I like to steal track presets from one project to reuse in another.

Oh yeah, the thing I really like about multi-track presets is that I usually write in my head, play in the part, and then surf around for the best library for that part.

So once I playing my part, I can load for example all of my legato violas and then drag the midi part to each one to see which one fits best. It might be a weird way to work, but it works for me.


----------



## Grizzlymv

labornvain said:


> Unfortunately, the database has been defective from the beginning. In 10.5, it seems to be a lot better, with less freezing and other issues.
> 
> But the unreliability has led me to avoid the database as much as possible, so I don't use any of the metadata or any of that part of the database functionality.


What do you mean by the "database"? and what issues you were having? Since the trackpresets are just files in folders, which Cubase reads and display in the MediaBay, I'm not sure there's any saving in a master list or something that would act like a database. Unless you're refering to another part? I have to admit though that I never really tried the trackpresets before 10.5 so I'm not how well it performed in previous versions, but in 10.5, it's lightning fast. As I type, the results gets filtered instantly. Same if I click a property. So far, it's behaving better than expected. Apart for the known limitations already discussed. 

I do like your approach for the multi though. So far it was mainly to load a section (violins, with all art, or a slimmed down version with most common articulations, etc). But having to move around the midi data into the different tracks to find the one that give the best result is quite interresting! The main reason I'm not using much the multi is the fact it's slow to load (slow due to the amount of instruments to load, not because the process is broken). But I should give it a second try. thanks for sharing this!


----------



## labornvain

Grizzlymv said:


> What do you mean by the "database"? and what issues you were having? Since the trackpresets are just files in folders, which Cubase reads and display in the MediaBay, I'm not sure there's any saving in a master list or something that would act like a database. Unless you're refering to another part? I have to admit though that I never really tried the trackpresets before 10.5 so I'm not how well it performed in previous versions, but in 10.5, it's lightning fast. As I type, the results gets filtered instantly. Same if I click a property. So far, it's behaving better than expected. Apart for the known limitations already discussed.
> 
> I do like your approach for the multi though. So far it was mainly to load a section (violins, with all art, or a slimmed down version with most common articulations, etc). But having to move around the midi data into the different tracks to find the one that give the best result is quite interresting! The main reason I'm not using much the multi is the fact it's slow to load (slow due to the amount of instruments to load, not because the process is broken). But I should give it a second try. thanks for sharing this!


Yeah media Bay is a database driven component. This is where it gets all the functionality that I don't use, like filters and other organizational functions.

Indeed it is true, as I noted in my original comment, that all the track presets are stored in folders on your hard drive. But to access those folders and their content from within Cubase, you have to do this through the database.

Aa for the problems, as I said 10.5 appears to have been a vast Improvement. But it was notorious for bugs and other such problems like becoming corrupted. The big problem for me usually, as I also noted in my original comment, was just that it would freeze. It still freezes but just not for as long.

The media Bay has always been rubbish. Poorly conceived poorly coded. Now that finally, after 10 years, they've gotten some of the bugs out of it, people may actually find some of the advanced features of the media Bay useful. But those features will still be unintuitive and unnecessary.

My first big criticism of the media Bay was how hard it is to create presets and have them be distinguishable from the crappy Steinberg presets that came preloaded. I think I spent six hours just trying to delete the Steinberg presets which are undeletable.

So I hid the filter section and just used the directory view. That made them usable for me as a means to store and retrieve presets, but even that worked poorly a lot of the time. It works better now.


----------



## mjsalam

Sample Fuel said:


> It is a huge issue for me. I have to work extremely fast and even a few seconds would break my workflow. Steinberg knows all about this and with a little pushing I think they will add it to Cubase 11. PLease repost in their forum.
> 
> LOGIC has a simple great implementation that Steinberg should do something similar.
> 
> Here is a screen shot of what LOGIC does....


Do you still have this screenshot? Its not showing for me and I'm curious what you were referring to.


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## Sample Fuel

mjsalam said:


> Do you still have this screenshot? Its not showing for me and I'm curious what you were referring to.


I don't have the screen shot anymore. I am still pushing for this feature but I don't expect it to make it in the initial Cubase 11 release.... but I am still hopeful it will be addressed not too far in the future.


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## Guffy

Quick question - If you saved a bunch of track presets using kontakt, and later update kontakt to a newer version, will the presets still work, or would you have to redo them one by one?


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## Grizzlymv

Guffy said:


> Quick question - If you saved a bunch of track presets using kontakt, and later update kontakt to a newer version, will the presets still work, or would you have to redo them one by one?


If you still have the previous version of Kontakt installed, it will work. But I believe it won't update to the newer version automatically. Just like with a disabled template or VEP template. I mean, if you had Kontakt 5.0.0 and you update it to 5.1.8 it will work and update. but if you had Kontakt 5.0.0 and you install Kontakt 6.0.0 since it's a new release rather than an update to a current one, that won't work. Make sense?


----------



## Guffy

Grizzlymv said:


> If you still have the previous version of Kontakt installed, it will work. But I believe it won't update to the newer version automatically. Just like with a disabled template or VEP template. I mean, if you had Kontakt 5.0.0 and you update it to 5.1.8 it will work and update. but if you had Kontakt 5.0.0 and you install Kontakt 6.0.0 since it's a new release rather than an update to a current one, that won't work. Make sense?


Gotcha!
Not a big deal then i guess, considering the time between those. I usually keep them installed side by side anyway. Thanks!


----------



## Guffy

One more thing i noticed - after a crash or restart, the mediabay seems to forget my settings (Hide folders that are not scanned, show only selected folder, etc).
Is this normal? It would be nice if i didn't have to check those boxes every single time 
I've also crashed numerous times now while fiddling around in the mediabay. The list of things Steinberg needs to fix seems endless..


----------



## Grizzlymv

Guffy said:


> One more thing i noticed - after a crash or restart, the mediabay seems to forget my settings (Hide folders that are not scanned, show only selected folder, etc).
> Is this normal? It would be nice if i didn't have to check those boxes every single time
> I've also crashed numerous times now while fiddling around in the mediabay. The list of things Steinberg needs to fix seems endless..


It works fine here. However I did notice such behavior in general in cubae. What I'd recommend is to do your settings, once completed close cubase, which will remember your settings, then start again. If it crash at this point, it will restart with the last good condition, meaning with the settings you had last time you closed it properly. That should work.


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## Sartorius

*Great topic!*

Thanks to Grizzlymv and to all those who participate in its discussion!

I also use Track Presets in my daily work. It is very convenient and gives creative freedom, unlike templates. But I have one interesting observation. If two different Track Presets have Expression Maps of the same content, then when such presets are added to the project, they have one Expression Map with the same name. For example, there are two Track Presets - Violin.trackpreset and Cello.trackpreset. They use the same Expression Maps, but the names of these Expression Maps are Violin Map and Cello Map. When added to the project, only the Expression Map from the Violin will be added. The Cello will receive an Expression Map from the Violin. Thus, it brings confusion to the project.

_Sorry for my English. A bit confusing, I understand. Try this experiment. Thanks!_


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## Grizzlymv

That's a very interesting find you just made. I no longer use Expression Map as I prefer to use 1 art per track, so I didn't notice this before, but you're right. I did try with my old Expression Map for CSS ensemble and CSSS ensemble, and no matter what I do, CSS always load up with the CSSS expression map...wierd. That sounds like a bug to me and should probably be reported to Steinberg so they can hopefully fix it eventually.


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## Sartorius

Dear Grizzlymv,
thank you so much for your quick response! Unfortunately, I have never written to Steinberg support before. I don’t know how to do it. I have been working in this program for 30 years , but I have never written to them. Please tell me where to write. Or maybe you yourself will write to them?

And one more question for you. In what state do you usually save Track Presets - disabled or enabled? It's very interesting to know your opinion. What is best for you in practice?


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## Grizzlymv

Sartorius said:


> Dear Grizzlymv,
> thank you so much for your quick response! Unfortunately, I have never written to Steinberg support before. I don’t know how to do it. I have been working in this program for 30 years , but I have never written to them. Please tell me where to write. Or maybe you yourself will write to them?
> 
> And one more question for you. In what state do you usually save Track Presets - disabled or enabled? It's very interesting to know your opinion. What is best for you in practice?


I never really did myself either, however, I posted something on their forum regarding issues and improvements wishlist which hopefully will get some traction. I edited my original post to include your issue in there (https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=193522&p=1021711#p1021711). 

Regarding your 2nd question, I use them enabled. It's mainly because I don't want to add an extra step to enable the track once loaded, and beside, if I don't need it, I just don't add it to the project. If it's being added, it's because I want to use so not sure what would be the point of loading it disabled then, in my case. 

I can't really think of a scenario that the disabled state of a track would be useful with the track presets. Maybe if you save a large group of tracks as a template, or let's say save a whole section (ie Violins) with 1 articulation per track, then you may want to load it in your project, but unsure which ones you'll use yet and want to have them pre-loaded in the project. But again, enabling a track or loading a track preset take the same amount of time, so not sure where the gain would be, beside a personal preference maybe? Or maybe for another case scenario I don't see. 

I'd have to see if they improved a bit the Track Presets with Cubase 11. I'm still on 10.5 at the moment.


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## J-M

I'm currently building a similar template, only with track archives. My most used stuff is inside VEPro, while the less used is imported from the archive when needed. I'd prefer having everything at my disposal immediately, but my PC can't quite handle that...


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## Sartorius

@Grizzlymv,
I have a question. For example, *Spitfire Audio Chamber Strings* has 194 individual articulations. Do you create your own Track Preset for each of them? What to do in this particular case? Or do you create multi-presets for each group (_Violins I_, _Violins II_, _Violas_, _Celli_, _Basses_ and _Ensembles_)?


----------



## Grizzlymv

Sartorius said:


> @Grizzlymv,
> I have a question. For example, *Spitfire Audio Chamber Strings* has 194 individual articulations. Do you create your own Track Preset for each of them? What to do in this particular case? Or do you create multi-presets for each group (_Violins I_, _Violins II_, _Violas_, _Celli_, _Basses_ and _Ensembles_)?


Hmm. well, in such case, I would probably just save the arts that I'm really looking forward to use. I mean, I'd start saving my main ones. And then, as I need a specific one, what I usually do is to load, say, the spiccato one. Then swap the articulation to let's say Pizzicato, then save the track preset using the same attributes as the Spiccato ones, just changing the name (and obviously also adjusting the name of track), so that takes 2 seconds to create that TrackPresets and it's available from that point in time. Then over time, I might end up having all the 194 articulations saved, or close it. Those that won't end up being saved probably means I never use them and therefore don't need them.  

I can't speak specifically for Spitfire Audio Chamber Strings as I don't have that particular library, but that's what I did with my others. Then when I work in a project, I just load the art I'm looking for at that moment in time. I rarely load in advance a bunch of arts, just in case. It eats up resources for nothing. Even if my computer can handle it, it not needed and prefer to keep things clean. So I wouldn't use a multi-preset personally. But that could work if you prefer to have everything at your disposal. Keep in mind though that the loading time will be accordingly as well. If you have 34 articulations for violins 1 for instance, that still 34 tracks/instances that needs to be loaded even if it's from 1 command (1 preset). 

Hope this make sense?


----------



## Sartorius

Can someone tell me please? Is it possible to assign a keyboard shortcut to save Track Presets? Can't find this function in the command list. I would also like to be able to select all tracks and save them as separate Track Presets with just one command. Maybe this is possible using macros?


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## Sartorius

At the moment I am studying the structure of Track Preset files (.trackpreset). These are regular XML files. If you want, you can write a Python program for parsing and editing. There is no time for this yet. Here are some codes:

*Track color number according to the current color table (numbering starts from zero):*


XML:


<int name="Farb" value="87"/>



*The contents of the Notepad in the track inspector:*


XML:


<obj class="UTextEditorBuffer" name="NPad" ID="43589780672">
    <int name="Cursor" value="0"/>
    <string name="Text" value="Cinesamples Drums of War (custom patch)" wide="true"/>
</obj>


----------



## Grizzlymv

Sartorius said:


> Can someone tell me please? Is it possible to assign a keyboard shortcut to save Track Presets? Can't find this function in the command list. I would also like to be able to select all tracks and save them as separate Track Presets with just one command. Maybe this is possible using macros?


I have one to Add a track preset, well, actually it's not a keyboard shortcut but a command in the Generic Remote which is assigned to a button on my midi controller. Haven't found how to do it for Saving a track preset though. Here's how I did it for the Add track preset. 






Even if there's a keyboard shortcut for it, I highly doubt you could select multiple tracks and have it save each as individual tracks. It would end up with 1 track preset that contains all the selected track. 

Also, when saving your tracks, you might likely want to keep a certain structure (with folders and such), and also, you most likely want to make sure the metadata associated with the track is pertinent to that instrument you're saving, so I'm not sure the mass saving would be a good idea in the long run. Unless I misunderstood what you're trying to accomplish here?


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## Sartorius

*Grizzlymv*, it's just super! You are a real TrackPresetGuru! Thank you!


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## Freudon33

Sartorius said:


> *Great topic!*
> 
> Thanks to Grizzlymv and to all those who participate in its discussion!
> 
> I also use Track Presets in my daily work. It is very convenient and gives creative freedom, unlike templates. But I have one interesting observation. If two different Track Presets have Expression Maps of the same content, then when such presets are added to the project, they have one Expression Map with the same name. For example, there are two Track Presets - Violin.trackpreset and Cello.trackpreset. They use the same Expression Maps, but the names of these Expression Maps are Violin Map and Cello Map. When added to the project, only the Expression Map from the Violin will be added. The Cello will receive an Expression Map from the Violin. Thus, it brings confusion to the project.
> 
> _Sorry for my English. A bit confusing, I understand. Try this experiment. Thanks!_


for my part I copied my expressions maps in my empty cubase instance and when I import my tracks archives it works


----------



## Francisco Cuadrado

Hi, I've discovered this so interesting topic in the right moment (I'm in the process of rebuilding my whole template). After having worked with different template approaches (VEP, deactivated tracks...) I think this is the right solution. For those of you that have VEP and want to take advantage of it with the trackpreset approach, let me add my 2 cents to this topic:

You can combine the trackpresets with the benefits of VEP (keeping the Cubase file size small and the saving times fast, for instance). I use it to load sections of the orchestra, for instance, or combinations of instruments that I use recurrently together. For example, a string quartet. The steps are the following:
1. Open VEP as well as Cubase.
2. Create an instrument track selecting VEP as instrument.
3. In the VEP instance, load kontakt and load the different instruments (Vl, Vla, Vc, Cb) inside kontakt, assigning each of them to a different MIDI channel and to a different audio output.
4. In Cubase, add more MIDI tracks (in my example, three) with the VEP instance as output and the different MIDI channels assigned according the instruments. If you use, configure the expression maps too (I use them a lot).
5. In Cubase, activate the audio returns for the VEP Instance, and give a proper name to each of them (to identify the right instrument). Configure the panning, volume, inserts, sends (sends are saved now in the trackpreset).
6. Select the instruments track + the MIDI tracks and save them as trackpreset (in my example: string quartet).

That's all. The next time you want to use this combination of instruments in other project, you only need to have VEP open. When you add track from preset and select the created multi instrument, Cubase add all the tracks with all the configuration, and also open the instance in VEP with all the instruments loaded in the right channels. Voila! You have 4 more instruments at once, and without overloading Cubase.


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## stigc56

Well you have to remember to couple the VEPro instance in Cubase! Otherwise your Cubase project will NOT remember the setting in VEPro. This has the side effect that the project will grow and that the saving time will increase. Also I think you will have to use Track Instruments because Rack Instruments will not remember all the settings, I think!


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## widekeys

Interesting Ideas in this thread, thank you for sharing. I'm always interested in template building with Cubase.

By the way, did you know: You can setup a 100% VEP hosted Cubase Template, where you disable tracks in VEP from inside Cubase via remote parameters. This means: whichever VEP instruments are disabled will be saved inside of cubase and loaded correctly when opening a project. This is currently my goto solution.





This picture shows how I used the remote-device engine of cubase to create a simple interface. I can select the checkboxes when I want to activate/deactivate a specific instrument in VEP. I have this interface on a shortcut and can open it quickly when needed.
Figuring it out and setting it up took some time, but I won't go back to presets anytime soon.

Also: The instances are decoupled. Super quick loading and saving times.


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## iMovieShout

widekeys said:


> Interesting Ideas in this thread, thank you for sharing. I'm always interested in template building with Cubase.
> 
> By the way, did you know: You can setup a 100% VEP hosted Cubase Template, where you disable tracks in VEP from inside Cubase via remote parameters. This means: whichever VEP instruments are disabled will be saved inside of cubase and loaded correctly when opening a project. This is currently my goto solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This picture shows how I used the remote-device engine of cubase to create a simple interface. I can select the checkboxes when I want to activate/deactivate a specific instrument in VEP. I have this interface on a shortcut and can open it quickly when needed.
> Figuring it out and setting it up took some time, but I won't go back to presets anytime soon.
> 
> Also: The instances are decoupled. Super quick loading and saving times.


This looks really good. I use a TouchOSC - Liine Lemur setup to do similar, but I've never seen this achieved from Cubase or Nuendo. What programming language have you used to create the screen you included above?


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## widekeys

jpb007.uk said:


> This looks really good. I use a TouchOSC - Liine Lemur setup to do similar, but I've never seen this achieved from Cubase or Nuendo. What programming language have you used to create the screen you included above?


No programming required! (Well, if you know a little XML, you can speed up the process a bit)
Cubase has this built in as a click-and-drag interface builder for remote devices. You need to fiddle a lot with midi ports, the logical editor and generic controllers though. Definitely worth it in the long run, if you don't have a tablet that can run TouchOSC.

I wish Cubase would support scripting in python or similar.


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## iMovieShout

widekeys said:


> No programming required! (Well, if you know a little XML, you can speed up the process a bit)
> Cubase has this built in as a click-and-drag interface builder for remote devices. You need to fiddle a lot with midi ports, the logical editor and generic controllers though. Definitely worth it in the long run, if you don't have a tablet that can run TouchOSC.
> 
> I wish Cubase would support scripting in python or similar.


Ok, this is good to know. I wouldn't mind taking a look to see how it compares to my current setup and if there may be any advantages, but I've way too much queued up in my in-tray. 
I'll have to add it to the 'things to do' pile.

Is there an easy to follow 'manual' or YouTube video that describes the steps to take to set this up?


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## widekeys

jpb007.uk said:


> Ok, this is good to know. I wouldn't mind taking a look to see how it compares to my current setup and if there may be any advantages, but I've way too much queued up in my in-tray.
> I'll have to add it to the 'things to do' pile.
> 
> Is there an easy to follow 'manual' or YouTube video that describes the steps to take to set this up?


I don't think so. I have "researched" quite a bit on this topic. In the end I had to work it out in trial-and-error and with the cubase manual. I even found some bugs in the remote-device enginge that got fixed in an update. (one still remains regarding variables, different story).






This is how the "interface builder" looks like. Again: This is build into Cubase. To make it work, you'll need external MIDI ports and (obviously) VEP.


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## iMovieShout

widekeys said:


> I don't think so. I have "researched" quite a bit on this topic. In the end I had to work it out in trial-and-error and with the cubase manual. I even found some bugs in the remote-device enginge that got fixed in an update. (one still remains regarding variables, different story).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is how the "interface builder" looks like. Again: This is build into Cubase. To make it work, you'll need external MIDI ports and (obviously) VEP.


Wow - looks like quite a bit of work required. 

We had a couple of interns plus myself (a couple of years ago) to do our Liine Lemur - TouchOSC interface for VEP6 then VEP7, which runs fine across 2 21inch touchscreens. I think we'll just stick to that. 
It looks like your solution does the same thing, but without all the extra features we have, such as the Hide/Show function for each orchestral / band instrument, articulation, as well as by Vendor and Sample Library name etc etc. Though its probably fairly easy to extend your interface to do that as well.


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## stigc56

For your information the next Metagrid update, which should be coming soon, there will two way communication via MIDI, and that can be used here, to switch on/off VEPro instances. It's possible already now, but it can be further customized!


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## Grizzlymv

widekeys said:


> Interesting Ideas in this thread, thank you for sharing. I'm always interested in template building with Cubase.
> 
> By the way, did you know: You can setup a 100% VEP hosted Cubase Template, where you disable tracks in VEP from inside Cubase via remote parameters. This means: whichever VEP instruments are disabled will be saved inside of cubase and loaded correctly when opening a project. This is currently my goto solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This picture shows how I used the remote-device engine of cubase to create a simple interface. I can select the checkboxes when I want to activate/deactivate a specific instrument in VEP. I have this interface on a shortcut and can open it quickly when needed.
> Figuring it out and setting it up took some time, but I won't go back to presets anytime soon.
> 
> Also: The instances are decoupled. Super quick loading and saving times.


That's another take of it which sounds interesting. So if I understand it well in that example, the instruments are loaded in VEP permanently, but in a disabled state, and won't exist in Cubase until you load the track preset? Or you also have the tracks existing in Cubase in a permanent basis, but also in a disabled state? Just wondering what's the added value of keeping them in disabled state vs the approach proposed by @Francisco Cuadrado which seems much more lightweight as instruments/tracks gets loaded as needed only, which also mean a significantly much lighter Cubase project file and I'd assume VEP project file as well. Unless I misunderstood it?


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## Grizzlymv

Francisco Cuadrado said:


> Hi, I've discovered this so interesting topic in the right moment (I'm in the process of rebuilding my whole template). After having worked with different template approaches (VEP, deactivated tracks...) I think this is the right solution. For those of you that have VEP and want to take advantage of it with the trackpreset approach, let me add my 2 cents to this topic:
> 
> You can combine the trackpresets with the benefits of VEP (keeping the Cubase file size small and the saving times fast, for instance). I use it to load sections of the orchestra, for instance, or combinations of instruments that I use recurrently together. For example, a string quartet. The steps are the following:
> 1. Open VEP as well as Cubase.
> 2. Create an instrument track selecting VEP as instrument.
> 3. In the VEP instance, load kontakt and load the different instruments (Vl, Vla, Vc, Cb) inside kontakt, assigning each of them to a different MIDI channel and to a different audio output.
> 4. In Cubase, add more MIDI tracks (in my example, three) with the VEP instance as output and the different MIDI channels assigned according the instruments. If you use, configure the expression maps too (I use them a lot).
> 5. In Cubase, activate the audio returns for the VEP Instance, and give a proper name to each of them (to identify the right instrument). Configure the panning, volume, inserts, sends (sends are saved now in the trackpreset).
> 6. Select the instruments track + the MIDI tracks and save them as trackpreset (in my example: string quartet).
> 
> That's all. The next time you want to use this combination of instruments in other project, you only need to have VEP open. When you add track from preset and select the created multi instrument, Cubase add all the tracks with all the configuration, and also open the instance in VEP with all the instruments loaded in the right channels. Voila! You have 4 more instruments at once, and without overloading Cubase.


I like that. Never thought of it. Will definitely going to try that, especially since Cubase still have some issues when you end up with too many instruments loaded within the project. Leveraging VEP makes it lighter on resources usage and make a lot of sense for orchestral instruments to me. Thanks for sharing this.


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## widekeys

Grizzlymv said:


> That's another take of it which sounds interesting. So if I understand it well in that example, the instruments are loaded in VEP permanently, but in a disabled state, and won't exist in Cubase until you load the track preset? Or you also have the tracks existing in Cubase in a permanent basis, but also in a disabled state? Just wondering what's the added value of keeping them in disabled state vs the approach proposed by @Francisco Cuadrado which seems much more lightweight as instruments/tracks gets loaded as needed only, which also mean a significantly much lighter Cubase project file and I'd assume VEP project file as well. Unless I misunderstood it?


There are no track presets in my template. I tried it, but the out- and inputs got corrupted once in a while on preset-loaded instruments.
For me, Cubase only functions as MIDI-track host (and a little mixing). I have the MIDI-tracks, expression maps and groupings all setup for the instruments in Cubase (I can control the visibility of the tracks I use per project). The instruments themselves are only stored in VEP (decoupled), but disabled. I first start up VEP with the 100% disabled template. When I start up Cubase, it sends the VEP parameters my project was saved with and thus enables all the necessary instruments in VEP which only then begin to load the samples and require RAM + CPU. I can enable/disable VEP loaded instruments on the fly via the remote device interface inside of cubase.
Savetimes for Cubase are barely noticeable (since everything is decoupled). If I make changes to a VEP instance, the save time is not that long since only one instance is changed. But I didn't change the template much since it was setup.

A template that relies on loading instruments inside of Cubase (e.g. a preset driven template) will result in longer save times and bigger file sizes. MIDI-Tracks do not really add to that equation. I'd argue that over time, the VEP disabled "huge" file will be smaller than all the Cubase files with directly loaded instruments with presets.
Oh and with VEP I easily can jump between projects. Cubase will send the required enabled/disabled. If the projects are similiary orchestrated, not much sample-loading is needed.


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## Sartorius

Dear friends! The idea of using the device panel seems very interesting to me. However, I cannot repeat this on my computer. Could you please describe in detail the procedure. I have a manual (Steinberg MIDI Devices), but nothing works for me.






widekeys said:


> To make it work, you'll need external MIDI ports and (obviously) VEP.


This is my main problem. I don't understand how to put it all together. At some point, I managed to make a device panel without creating the device itself in the MIDI Device Manager. I managed to turn instances on and off. But I understand that I had to create a MIDI device.


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## MarcusD

Grizzlymv said:


> I'll check to post it on Cubase forums. I'm curious though about how big is the impact for you regarding the missing Sends / Routing?
> 
> In my case, I leverage the Q-Link functionality of the mixer which allow me to quickly set the Sends and routing of multiple tracks at once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you select the right Routing for the selection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it will change all selected tracks to the same routing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same concept for Sends. You click on a Send from ONE of the selected tracks (make sure Q-Link is enabled):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you edit only that track, and all selected will copy the setting live, from the one you're editing, as long as the Q-Link option is activated. Then you can uncheck Q-Link and fine tune a Sends setting for a specific track.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, the best would be that cubase saves it as part of the track preset, but in the meantime, while a bit annoying, that workaround is relatively fast/easy to use depending on how you use them.
> 
> Cheers


No need to use link to achieve this. Just select the tracks and hold (if I remember correctly) shift + alt while making any volume changes, adding inserts, setting routing etc... and it’ll apply it to all channels selected. This applies to both the mixer and main project window  

Quite handy if you want to select a bunch of instrument tracks and batch replace the instrument from using, say, kontakt, with Sine.


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## Grizzlymv

so I had few people reaching out and asking questions about the process. I realize that it might not be that convenient to go through the thread and read the wall of texts on how it works. So I made a quick overview video on how I'm using it right now. Excuse the accent. English is not my mother language.  
Hope it's gonna be useful to some. 
Cheers


0:00 Quick Intro
0:37 The template
2:36 Adding a track preset
5:20 Creating a track preset
9:13 A workaround for route/send
10:10 The Media Bay
11:50 How to get just YOUR instrument in the browser
15:00 How to disable the previewer
17:32 Using the right pane
19:58 Quick words on the different templates approaches I used before.


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## Sartorius

Dear Grizzlymv! Thanks for the great video! I have a question. How do you manage to save the send slots in the track preset? When I save a preset track, this information is not saved.


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## Grizzlymv

Sartorius said:


> Dear Grizzlymv! Thanks for the great video! I have a question. How do you manage to save the send slots in the track preset? When I save a preset track, this information is not saved.


Just to clarify, it doesn't set any Sends you had configured in your track. It just automatically reconnect, in a disabled state, all sends from your project. To enable this, open the Cubase preferences. Under VST, you'll have a "Connect Sends Automatically for Each Newly Created Channel". Just ensure the checkbox is checked and voila.


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## Sartorius

Grizzlymv said:


> "Connect Sends Automatically for Each Newly Created Channel" - Just ensure the checkbox is checked and voila.


It's just phenomenal! Thank you very much!


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## Sartorius

I ran some tests to keep the send slots. If a track preset contains information in the first slot (for example, a reverb track), then when this preset is placed in a new project, the first existing track with an effect is substituted into the first send slot of the track being created. Is that correct? And this only works if the "Connect Sends Automatically for Each Newly Created Channel" option is enabled in Cubase. But what if my empty template has separate effects for different groups of instruments (xBRASS VERB, xWW VERB, xSTR VERB and so on)?


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## MeloKeyz

This is very intriguing and wonderful idea @Grizzlymv. 

Believe it or not! I dumped the whole "template" idea and I decided to always start from a blank canvas. And I haven't been happier. Adding tracks as I go with composing is like painting and I focus more in creativity than the office work of creating/organizing/maintaining templates or even track presets. I mean it's all about a fast workflow right? ... I really don't see the 15 seconds of adding a track and selecting an instrument is a major issue. And I still use macros triggered by my Elgato stream deck to provide speed in creating those tracks, put them in Group and FX channels. And yeah, I don't get bothered from inserting EQ and effects manually in each project. 

I really get the same speed result which is finishing a track (song) in 8 hours balanced, mixed and mastered. I honestly get that feeling that "templates" is more of a Buzz word and hype that every composer dream of to get as fast as possible with projects. The truth is, you're not getting any faster with templates. Or maybe it's just me who is bloody fast with empty canvases?


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## dhmusic

MeloKeyz said:


> This is very intriguing and wonderful idea @Grizzlymv.
> 
> Believe it or not! I dumped the whole "template" idea and I decided to always start from a blank canvas. And I haven't been happier. Adding tracks as I go with composing is like painting and I focus more in creativity than the office work of creating/organizing/maintaining templates or even track presets. I mean it's all about a fast workflow right? ... I really don't see the 15 seconds of adding a track and selecting an instrument is a major issue. And I still use macros triggered by my Elgato stream deck to provide speed in creating those tracks, put them in Group and FX channels. And yeah, I don't get bothered from inserting EQ and effects manually in each project.
> 
> I really get the same speed result which is finishing a track (song) in 8 hours balanced, mixed and mastered. I honestly get that feeling that "templates" is more of a Buzz word and hype that every composer dream of to get as fast as possible with projects. The truth is, you're not getting any faster with templates. Or maybe it's just me who is bloody fast with empty canvases?


Do you use expression maps?


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## MeloKeyz

dhmusic said:


> Do you use expression maps?


I rarely use a patch with multiple articulations. I always use a single articulation per track. But If I use a multi articulations patch, I use keyswitches very easily since I am a keyboardist in the first place. It may be hard for many composers.


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## Sartorius

The system of building templates from track presets is, of course, very convenient. But what to do in a situation when an update of some library appears? Every preset has to be redone!


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## Grizzlymv

Sartorius said:


> The system of building templates from track presets is, of course, very convenient. But what to do in a situation when an update of some library appears? Every preset has to be redone!


Well, that depends on the hosts, but if something like Kontakt, yes unfortunately. However, the same issue happen with a disabled track template or if using a VEP template so it's not so different from that point. That being said, what I would usually do is to update them as I load/need a track preset. That way I get annoyed only when I try to load a track preset which need an update, rather than be forced to update all instances at once. I wish there would be a smoother update process with Kontakt, but so far, I had that issue with all template approach I used over the time. The only difference I see with track presets is that since it's quite easy and convenient to create those, you may end up with more instances than in a typical template over time, so more updates to do.  

Here there's still several presets that hasn't been updated yet, some for quite some time, but been able to work with that hybrid mode without issues. In the end, I have updates to do here and there, and for those I haven't updated yet, maybe it's more a question of, do I still need that preset after all? ahah.


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## Akarin

As a template nerd myself, this was a really cool video! Thanks for sharing your workflow.


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## NuNativs

Hey bro, are you still getting along with this method? Any additional pros & cons? I've had similar experiences and feelings about the whole template thingy.


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## Grizzlymv

NuNativs said:


> Hey bro, are you still getting along with this method? Any additional pros & cons? I've had similar experiences and feelings about the whole template thingy.


More than ever yes. I can't see myself working without this. I did tweaked this a bit over time. I now have a small template for my core orchestral instruments (strings, brass, perc and woods). They are pre-arranged in VEP and loaded as MIDI track in my template. Everything else remain track presets and I just love it that way. 

On the Pro side, I'd say that having moved from Cubase 11 to 12 without issue was quite a relief. 
Then I also realized that it encouraged me to do more of my own design/experiments by quickly saving variation of a source, with some fx or merged libraries. In the end, I end up slowly creating my colors and less relying on out of the box presets from a library like I used to do. 

On the Con side, 2 things I'd mention. One is if you or update a library that has significant change, then you'll have to re-save your preset with the new path otherwise you'll get nagged by a prompt to local the samples every time you load it. But that's mainly because of my laziness..  

All in all, the pros still outweighs big time the cons for me so I don't see myself moving away from this way of working anytime soon. 

Hope this helps.


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## NuNativs

That helped a great deal Martin, thanks for responding in detail. Much appreciated!


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