# P-45 vs FP-10 MIDI Implementation



## Gavin McMahan (Jun 19, 2020)

What's your experience with MIDI implementation from the FP-10?

I want to hear it totally clear from somebody that the MIDI implementation is better than the P-45 and that you can fully express velocities 1-127 haha.

I just got a P-45, disassembled it, and screwed it into my desk. Looks awesome. Feel pretty good. But the MIDI implementation is awful. If I hit it as hard as I can, I can get 113, but never 127. When I'm actually playing it like a piano, or writing orchestral parts, I can never get it above 110, and the 110 only comes when I really slam it. Playing piano musically, velocities are always between 25-95 or so. And that's me trying to be super dynamic. It's a pain. And this is on the "soft" velocity curve setting of the P-45. The other settings are even worse.

Really sucks for writing spiccato parts. You can never really get the "players" to dig unless you treat playing your keyboard like a sport and not music haha.

Anyway, I've heard that the FP-10 has more velocity curves native to the keyboard and has better implementation in general, meaning fully expressing 1-127 is possible and that you can play musically and tap into the full range of a libraries sampled dynamics.

Someone tell me this is the truth! I don't want to spend a McBillion dollars on a Doepfer or something!

I'm also open to other keyboards under $500 that are easily disassembled and mounted to a desk like a no-case Doepfer. I deliberately made a 4.75" gap from my keyboard tray to my desktop. All I want it good action and MIDI implementation.


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## DerGeist (Jun 19, 2020)

This is my experience with Yamaha digital pianos as midi controllers as well. I think it may be common to other brands as well. I haven't tried aP45 but had a p90 for years and it topped out at about 112. I have a P515 now which is similar. I could maybe get 117 if I hit it with a sledgehammer. My workaround where possible is to scale the midi in software to nudge it up. You lose 0-15 but that mostly silent anyway.

Can't speak to the Roland.


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## Gavin McMahan (Jun 19, 2020)

Yeah that's been my exactly my experience. It seems that the Roland FP-10 also has a triple-sensor as opposed to the dual-sensor of the P-45 which should grant it more fidelity and nuance in its expressiveness. Plus the action has escapement. I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on it today. I'll post back here once I get it to see if the MIDI implementation is better, although, I'm quite confident it will be.

Scaling the MIDI kind of works for me, but it's such a pain. I'm scoring this documentary right now that has tons of piano and have to spend so much time editing the velocities after playing because of the lack of nuance and fidelity while playing. I'd make my "money" back in like 2-3 days of work to not have to scale the velocities. Fingers crossed for the FP-10!


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## Pablocrespo (Jun 19, 2020)

I have a p35 with similar issues, if you disassembly the fp-10 let us know how it goes!


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## tc9000 (Jun 19, 2020)

I have an FP-10 and I've been very happy with it. I use it as a MIDI controller and the action feels just right to me, though I do often tweak my various VST's velocity curves to suit. I read somewhere it has the same key bed as the FP-30 but less bells and whistles elsewhere.

BUT I have to admit I have had very little exposure to real pianos - it's sad, but its a fact.

DO consider getting the legs - its a lot of money for three bits of wood, but its heavy and it needs a sturdy support.


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## tc9000 (Jun 19, 2020)

Oh and the provided foot pedal is trash.

Also: no 3-pedal support AFAIK.


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## SupremeFist (Jun 19, 2020)

I have the FP10 and I spend _far _less time editing velocities post-performance (for piano tracks) than I used to. I have it on a König & Meyer table stand. 

For the specific comparison you mention see:


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## NeonMediaKJT (Jun 19, 2020)

Last year I went through this.

Bought a Yamaha P45 as my first weighted keyboard to use for midi work. Got it home, plugged it in and started playing around with some piano vst and others. Found that I couldn't reach 127 velocity even on the highest velocity curve setting. I ended up returning it and buying the fp-10 and I was able to actually get to the higher velocities by cycling through the velocity curve setting on the keyboard.


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## visiblenoise (Jun 19, 2020)

Is there a velocity remapping function in your DAW? In FL Studio you can tell it to map a controller's midi velocities from, say, 0-110 to 0-127, by drawing a function.

Yea, you end up with less than 127 different possible velocities, but your ear probably won't notice it.


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## mybadmemory (Jun 19, 2020)

Have the same problem with my Nord Piano 3. Can’t reach higher than 120 unfortunately. :(


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## Gavin McMahan (Aug 10, 2020)

Guys! I installed the FP-10 and it's perfect! I can totally control 1-127. So musical. I did use the MIDI function thing to change the touch sensitivity to "light" which helped me access those higher velocities with ease. It feels way better. For anyone interested, here are some pictures of it installed in my tray. Disassembly was super easy.


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## nickhmusic (Feb 1, 2021)

Gavin McMahan said:


> Guys! I installed the FP-10 and it's perfect! I can totally control 1-127. So musical. I did use the MIDI function thing to change the touch sensitivity to "light" which helped me access those higher velocities with ease. It feels way better. For anyone interested, here are some pictures of it installed in my tray. Disassembly was super easy.


looks brilliant! I tried this with an FP-4 but it didn't work out. Would it be too much trouble to measure the height from the base of the keybed (metal protective bit under the keys) to the top of the black keys? Also did you find the circuit boards assembly (power board, sustain etc.) sits happily behind the desk without shorting or anything? (that happened to me!) 

Cheers man!


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## CeDur (Feb 18, 2021)

It seems I'm not the only one using FP10 as a MIDI controler. Much happier with it than with Kawai ES8 or Korg Grandstage. I also set "Light" touch in Roland for >120 velocities to be easier to reach. One limitation of FP10 compared to FP30 is continuous pedal implementation. Although I'm using DP10, FP10 filters events and sends only 0, 90 and 127 values for CC64. FP30 sends full range values. For realistic piano experience it might be an issue (not sure if any other software than Pianoteq actually utilizes full range).


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## Markrs (Feb 18, 2021)

I use an FP-10 and very happy with it and use it as my name keyboard. I also have a Nektar Panorama T4 as a secondary keyboard. However it is a bit noisey, the advantage with that keyboard though is that it has springy keys for when you want to play quickly. That is the only thing I find more difficult on weighted keys like with the FP-10.


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## Tom Ferguson (Apr 2, 2021)

What's the noise of the action like on the FP-10. Is it more like the volume of the p-45 here, rather than the SL88 Studio?


And am I right in thinking that the FP-10 does have 128 velocities through midi/usb, and the 96 velocities is just for the internal sound engine I'm rarely going to use?


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## SupremeFist (Apr 2, 2021)

Can't really tell about the sound of the action vs the Yamaha (and I'm not bothered because a good weighted action will always make some noise), but I can confirm the FP10 does send velocities up to 127 to the sequencer.


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## Tom Ferguson (Apr 2, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Can't really tell about the sound of the action vs the Yamaha (and I'm not bothered because a good weighted action will always make some noise), but I can confirm the FP10 does send velocities up to 127 to the sequencer.


Well it's more what it's like compared to the SL88 in the video, which is very similar to my hammer 88. Basically a really loud clonk on release. Louder than the initial strike if anything. I don't mind the strike noise being noticeable, it's the slightly delayed release which is extremely distracting.

And thanks for the velocity confirmation!


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## Tom Ferguson (Apr 2, 2021)

Gavin McMahan said:


> Guys! I installed the FP-10 and it's perfect! I can totally control 1-127. So musical. I did use the MIDI function thing to change the touch sensitivity to "light" which helped me access those higher velocities with ease. It feels way better. For anyone interested, here are some pictures of it installed in my tray. Disassembly was super easy.


Heya, I'm really interested in doing this too. It there a guide you used to do this, or maybe any tips you could give out to make sure everything goes smoothly, or maybe some pictures of where you installed the circuits and what you did with the speakers etc? Cheers


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## CeDur (Apr 8, 2021)

Just another post to confirm 1-127 velocity range being properly send from FP10. And just to remind: sustain is only send for 3 values: 0, 90, 127, so no actual continuous (info on Roland website is misleading!). Although theoretically the same, FP30 action seems to be quiter than FP10. The latter has no "felt" near to fallboard, so it might be the reason.


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## Tom Ferguson (Apr 8, 2021)

CeDur said:


> Just another post to confirm 1-127 velocity range being properly send from FP10. And just to remind: sustain is only send for 3 values: 0, 90, 127, so no actual continuous (info on Roland website is misleading!). Although theoretically the same, FP30 action seems to be quiter than FP10. The latter has no "felt" near to fallboard, so it might be the reason.


Ah good save, That is really useful to know actually! I just sent back a hammer 88 because the action was stupid loud and was thinking of getting the FP-10, but if that is the case I'll wait and get the FP-30. Cheers


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## CeDur (Apr 8, 2021)

It's not like night and day difference between FP10 and FP30 action loudness, just a bit. When playing, both feel the same. Also FP30 features full 0-127 range for sustain (CC64) when using proper pedal. The 'newest' model is FP30X. I've read they made some minor improvements to the action, but not tried by myself. Nice feature they added is proper TRS line-outs, if you ever plan to use it as a standalone DP live.


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## Tom Ferguson (Apr 8, 2021)

CeDur said:


> It's not like night and day difference between FP10 and FP30 action loudness, just a bit. When playing, both feel the same. Also FP30 features full 0-127 range for sustain (CC64) when using proper pedal. The 'newest' model is FP30X. I've read they made some minor improvements to the action, but not tried by myself. Nice feature they added is proper TRS line-outs, if you ever plan to use it as a standalone DP live.


Good to know thanks! TBF, would this felt make any difference when installing it into a desk like one of users above has?


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## CeDur (Apr 8, 2021)

Oh, if you plan to take it apart I don't think paying extra for FP30 is worth it.


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## Tom Ferguson (Apr 8, 2021)

CeDur said:


> Oh, if you plan to take it apart I don't think paying extra for FP30 is worth it.


OK, makes sense. Do you think installing it like that is likely to make it louder or quieter?


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## musicisum (Jul 2, 2021)

CeDur said:


> Oh, if you plan to take it apart I don't think paying extra for FP30 is worth it.


Just bought an FP-30x (that recent new version of this classic) – assuming the MIDI integration works well as I'm super happy with all they midi related controllers.

Might tell a bit how my experience with that is, and what's good / what's not


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## CeDur (Jul 4, 2021)

@musicisum could you please check if FP30X sends continuous CC64 values? Assuming you have dedicated pedal unit or Roland DP10 pedal. Someone on Pianoworld posted info that he has an issue with that. I tested FP30 with DP10 and it sent continuous messages, my FP10 does only 3 values like I mentioned (see pic attached). I'm curious if Roland 'broke' their new model.


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## CeDur (Jul 4, 2021)

It is not 'so' important, but useful for more advanced piano technique. On a real acoustic, when you press sustain pedal ~50% deep the sustain is different than when you press it 75% or 100%. Some piano libraries (just a few) try to emulate it (Pianoteq is doing it very well, since it uses modelling) but you need continuous CC64 messages to use it. Also theoretically you can utilize it for other effects (for example map CC64 to other CC and control some synth filter by pedal).

If you don't care for this half-pedaling thing, I don't think you should care about lack of this feature in FP10.


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## osterdamus (Aug 20, 2021)

Gavin McMahan said:


> I did use the MIDI function thing to change the touch sensitivity to "light" which helped me access those higher velocities with ease.


Is this a changeable setting in the FP-10 piano or are you referring to a utility on your computer?

Asking for a… uh… friend who just moved and is a bit in doubt about where his manual is right now…


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## Markrs (Aug 20, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Is this a changeable setting in the FP-10 piano or are you referring to a utility on your computer?
> 
> Asking for a… uh… friend who just moved and is a bit in doubt about where his manual is right now…


It is a functionality on the Fp-10 as I have mine set to light as well



https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/FP-10_Reference_eng01_W.pdf


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## kukumar (Nov 6, 2021)

Hello, Does anyone know if the Roland FP-10 can reach normal MIDI velocities (up to 127) without setting the keyboard to light? I just bought the Casio PX-S1000 and the MIDI velocities are too low on the normal setting. Setting the keyboard to light helps reach higher velocities easier but also makes everything louder and harder to player softer, so less expressive. If the Roland FP-10 can output normal MIDI velocities that would be good. Otherwise I had the Casio CDP-S100 before and didn't have problems with MIDI velocities so I can always downgrade back to that. Thanks for your help


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## kukumar (Nov 7, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Can't really tell about the sound of the action vs the Yamaha (and I'm not bothered because a good weighted action will always make some noise), but I can confirm the FP10 does send velocities up to 127 to the sequencer.


Hello, Is that with the FP10 left on normal key sensitivity, or do you have to change it to 'light' sensitivity to get it to send the velocities up to 127 to the sequencer?


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## Markrs (Nov 7, 2021)

kukumar said:


> Hello, Is that with the FP10 left on normal key sensitivity, or do you have to change it to 'light' sensitivity to get it to send the velocities up to 127 to the sequencer?


I just tested with my FP10 on "Normal" with Pianoteq and pressing quite hard (but not crazy level hard) I was able to get to 127 velocity (the Pianoteq response curve is the default diagonal line). I do however normally have it on light for easier playing, as I am not a pianist and don't have very strong hands.


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## SupremeFist (Nov 7, 2021)

kukumar said:


> Hello, Is that with the FP10 left on normal key sensitivity, or do you have to change it to 'light' sensitivity to get it to send the velocities up to 127 to the sequencer?


I've never touched the FP10's own velocity settings so I guess it's on normal?


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## Markrs (Nov 7, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I've never touched the FP10's own velocity settings so I guess it's on normal?


Indeed, Normal is the default setting.


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## CeDur (Nov 13, 2021)

It is very hard to reach 127 on normal (and it should be) but possible. I used to use 'light' for some time to train myself out of being heavy-handed, but 'normal' is more natural response for piano sounds. Still, most VIs need to have individually adjusted curve.


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## SupremeFist (Nov 13, 2021)

CeDur said:


> Still, most VIs need to have individually adjusted curve.


Absolutely, this is why I never touch the curve on my FP10 because then I'd be dealing with two curves interacting.


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## CeDur (Nov 13, 2021)

By the way, I strongly recommend getting this plugin. It's not very popular, but it's much better than most piano built-in velocity editors (if they have any):


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## Markrs (Nov 13, 2021)

CeDur said:


> By the way, I strongly recommend getting this plugin. It's not very popular, but it's much better than most piano built-in velocity editors (if they have any):


Thank you, I was looking for something like this!









MidiCurve | FREE VST PLUGINS


midiCurve ( 0.43 MB )




freevstplugins.net


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## Paulogic (Nov 14, 2021)

kukumar said:


> Hello, Does anyone know if the Roland FP-10 can reach normal MIDI velocities (up to 127) without setting the keyboard to light? I just bought the Casio PX-S1000 and the MIDI velocities are too low on the normal setting. Setting the keyboard to light helps reach higher velocities easier but also makes everything louder and harder to player softer, so less expressive. If the Roland FP-10 can output normal MIDI velocities that would be good. Otherwise I had the Casio CDP-S100 before and didn't have problems with MIDI velocities so I can always downgrade back to that. Thanks for your help


You can also switch the PXS from normal midi velocity to High Definition. Once I disabled Hig Definition,
everything was way better. I think that almost all VI/VST's can not handle the HiDef and some even
don't play anything until you use "standard" velocity. Weird but probably similar to MPE support, I guess. 
Bizar thingy : HiDef works fine on Alicia's keys... but if it really accepts it, no clue at all.


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## nickhmusic (Nov 14, 2021)

totally agreed. Each piano library needs different attention. Personally I am loving the Bosendorfer Upright piano from VSL on the FP-10, heaven. 

I also own the FP4, and I miss it for the slightly more keyboardy action, perfect for lazy playing - but the FP-4 really does have a realistic weighted feel, good for training those fingers.

Also the bluetooth ios app is very handy for changing velocity sensitivity or alternatively there are function keys on the keyboard itself.


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