# CSS, SCS, SStS Pro or VSL Dimension Strings



## omc_29 (Jul 18, 2020)

So out of these choices which would you go for if you could choose only one? I've been looking for a good core string library that I can use to supplement with the BBCSO Strings. I find some things can be a bit lacking with the BBCSO strings in particular faster legato lines and runs. I've pretty much got it down to these four choices. I'm leaning towards CSS or SCS at the moment as I have read that the SStS legatos are a bit lacking in the spitfire studio series. The VSL dimension strings also looks good but its more expensive.


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## M0rdechai (Jul 18, 2020)

I'm not going to give you an answer, just warn you what will come your way asking a question like this.

1. "Just buy them all! You can never have enough string libraries!"
2. "Listen to demo's, chose the one that sounds best to you"
3. "On this forum, CSS is crowned king for legato's, so that's probably your answer"
4. "There are tons of topics on which string library, just read them all"
5. "It all depends on what (style) you will use it for"
6. "You should focus on your skill first, before buying more libraries"

There is nonsense and thruth in each of these...
(Good luck!  )


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## M0rdechai (Jul 18, 2020)

On a more serious note; it would help to give you pointers if you could provide more information such as;

- what kind of music are you planning to make (if you have something in mind)?
- what's your budget?
- what kind of PC/Mac do you have (with what specs)?

These factor in when making a decision...


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## Symfoniq (Jul 18, 2020)

I have owned them all except Studio Strings, and I would pick CSS for a general-purpose string library.

SCS has legato and intonation issues. CSS has unrivaled legato while maintaining a lot of musicality. Dimension Strings is the most fiddly and complex of the three, and I’ve never loved the sound, but the latter is subjective, so listen to some demos.


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## omc_29 (Jul 18, 2020)

M0rdechai said:


> On a more serious note; it would help to give you pointers if you could provide more information such as;
> 
> - what kind of music are you planning to make (if you have something in mind)?
> - what's your budget?
> ...



Planning on making orchestral arrangements, maybe more in a classical style but also film/tv as well. My budget would be around £800 but their is a few other things that I was planning on getting. I already have the BBCSO Pro and also EWHO diamond. I have a Lenovo P53 PC, 64 GB Ram, with an i7 6 core processor.


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## omc_29 (Jul 18, 2020)

Symfoniq said:


> I have owned them all except Studio Strings, and I would pick CSS for a general-purpose string library.
> 
> SCS has legato and intonation issues. CSS has unrivaled legato while maintaining a lot of musicality. Dimension Strings is the most fiddly and complex of the three, and I’ve never loved the sound, but the latter is subjective, so listen to some demos.



Thanks for your advice on this


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## omc_29 (Jul 18, 2020)

Symfoniq said:


> I have owned them all except Studio Strings, and I would pick CSS for a general-purpose string library.
> 
> SCS has legato and intonation issues. CSS has unrivaled legato while maintaining a lot of musicality. Dimension Strings is the most fiddly and complex of the three, and I’ve never loved the sound, but the latter is subjective, so listen to some demos.




What's wrong with the Legatos in SCS?


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Jul 18, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> I find some things can be a bit lacking with the BBCSO strings in particular faster legato lines and runs.


SCS - for faster legato lines and runs - will be good.
СSS - for slow and medium legato - out of competition.


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## Casiquire (Jul 18, 2020)

Well Dimension Strings would be decent for small classical ensembles. It does take more work though. You need to set up a good template which can take a while and you need to do it per instrument, which is complicated by the fact that there's no way you can know *how* you want your template set up before you have some familiarity with the library!

However the Synchronized version seems to address that issue.

To my knowledge this is the only library series that also gives you string control AND recorded sordino and sul tasto playing. That's really wild, and I use those string settings more often than I ever expected.

They do have a brightness and harshness to them, nothing that can't be tamed, but it's there. On the plus side some of the harsh shorts are very forceful sounding. With such a small section it's like you can hear every individual bow hair.

Clearly my feelings on the library are a bit complex, but i think all in all the Synchronized version strikes a good balance


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## ptram (Jul 18, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> Well Dimension Strings would be decent for small classical ensembles. It does take more work though. You need to set up a good template which can take a while and you need to do it per instrument


I apologize if I’m misunderstanding, but the old VI version comes with presets including setups for separate desks and full sections. One cell of the player may include all the eight violins, for example. If you are happy with the original presets, it's no different than the new Synchronized version.

I‘ve made my own presets for VSL, and admittedly I’ve not even tried to build my own desk/section presets for the Dimension series, being a very long tasks. Therefore, I prefer to use them with Vienna Ensemble, where I can add individual performers to each mixer channel, and assign them the same MIDI channel.

Paolo


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## Casiquire (Jul 18, 2020)

ptram said:


> I apologize if I’m misunderstanding, but the old VI version comes with presets including setups for separate desks and full sections. One cell of the player may include all the eight violins, for example. If you are happy with the original presets, it's no different than the new Synchronized version.
> 
> I‘ve made my own presets for VSL, and admittedly I’ve not even tried to build my own desk/section presets for the Dimension series, being a very long tasks. Therefore, I prefer to use them with Vienna Ensemble, where I can add individual performers to each mixer channel, and assign them the same MIDI channel.
> 
> Paolo


I'm not on the Synchron version, so I might have misunderstood its setup. I use it basically the same way you do from the VI version putting them all on one midi channel. Sorry if i was being unclear there but Synchron does do some of the work for you, like placement for example. But you're right that the desk and section presets are similar between the two versions


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## omc_29 (Jul 18, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> SCS - for faster legato lines and runs - will be good.
> СSS - for slow and medium legato - out of competition.



Was considering SCS for the faster legato lines and runs. Seems to do that quite well. If you had to choose between CSS and SCS which would you go for?


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Jul 18, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Was considering SCS for the faster legato lines and runs. Seems to do that quite well. If you had to choose between CSS and SCS which would you go for?


Difficult choice. If I choose "SCS" then I will definitely miss the "CSS" if it is suddenly taken away from me. So I would choose "CSS" but I do not have "BBCSO" if you are interested only "runs", then I think it is better to arrange a competition.


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## Vik (Jul 18, 2020)

Among those you mention: I would start with CSS and add SCS later.


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## omc_29 (Jul 18, 2020)

Vik said:


> Among those you mention: I would start with CSS and add SCS later.



Thanks for you advice on this.


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## jbuhler (Jul 18, 2020)

Symfoniq said:


> I have owned them all except Studio Strings, and I would pick CSS for a general-purpose string library.
> 
> SCS has legato and intonation issues. CSS has unrivaled legato while maintaining a lot of musicality. Dimension Strings is the most fiddly and complex of the three, and I’ve never loved the sound, but the latter is subjective, so listen to some demos.


Well, so long as you get along with the sound of CSS. Not everyone does. And some have issues with the delay.


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## omc_29 (Jul 18, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Well, so long as you get along with the sound of CSS. Not everyone does. And some have issues with the delay.



From listening to the demos of CSS i'm not too sure I really like the tone of it. I think I do prefer the tone of SCS from listening to the demos but again unsure if this would fit well with the other libraries I have as it is recorded in Air and thus I assume it has quite a wet sound.


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## Marsen (Jul 18, 2020)

SStS Pro for the Legatos.
SCS yet doesn't convince me for the Legatos. (And so much pitch issues with this library). Everybody seems to love this library , but I have some problems with it.

*But must add, I just own it since this spring sale. Hope I will get something out of it in the future.


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## omc_29 (Jul 18, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Difficult choice. If I choose "SCS" then I will definitely miss the "CSS" if it is suddenly taken away from me. So I would choose "CSS" but I do not have "BBCSO" if you are interested only "runs", then I think it is better to arrange a competition.



Primarily for faster legato and runs, I find the legato in the BBCSO are not the best for faster lines or runs but would also like a good string library that can act as a main library which can blend quite well with some other libraries like the BBCSO and EWHO.


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## omc_29 (Jul 18, 2020)

Marsen said:


> SStS Pro for the Legatos.
> SCS yet doesn't convince me for the Legatos. (And so much pitch issues with this library). Everybody seems to love this library , but I have some problems with it.
> 
> *But must add, I just own it since this spring sale. Hope I will get something out of it in the future.



That's interesting. Ive read several posts from others that say the opposite, that SCS has good legato and that the SStS Pro legatos are not that good. 

Why do you prefer the Legatos in SStS pro but not the ones in SCS?


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## Sarah Mancuso (Jul 18, 2020)

SCS has tons of useful legato options, far more than most other libraries. SStS only has pretty rudimentary legato and portamento.


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## omc_29 (Jul 18, 2020)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> SCS has tons of useful legato options, far more than most other libraries. SStS only has pretty rudimentary legato and portamento.



Yeah that's what I thought. Watched the walkthrough videos for SCS and SStS and theirs a lot more including, fast legato and runs in SCS. Only 2 in SStS pro and the BBCSO.


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## GingerMaestro (Jul 18, 2020)

I own all 3 SStS, SCS and CSS..CSS wins hands down..I was reluctant to buy it a first as I wasn’t in love with the dark sound, but having taken the plunge, neither of the others come close...I use it everyday and when I try to use SCS I just give up !
The hype on CSS here is well deserved


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## jbuhler (Jul 18, 2020)

Marsen said:


> SStS Pro for the Legatos.
> SCS yet doesn't convince me for the Legatos. (And so much pitch issues with this library). Everybody seems to love this library , but I have some problems with it.
> 
> *But must add, I just own it since this spring sale. Hope I will get something out of it in the future.


I on the other hand love the legatos of SCS, which I find very transparent. I also love the shorts, which are very detailed and have a wide range of expression. There are things the library does not do well (or at least I can't get it to do well) like say a quick legato (non-runs) with four or more notes to a bow stroke (CSS is far better at that), and the legato of the first violins and cellos are better than the legatos for the second violins and violas. But in general I find the SCS legato very nice, and most importantly they fit the sound I'm after. There are some pitch issues, as there are pitch issues with live players. The thing about SCS is there are often more than a half dozen ways to do anything, including many different legato patches, so you have lots of options, and if one patch is too pitchy for you, another patch will be more suitable. And I have never encountered a pitch issue that I haven't quickly been able to find an acceptable workaround for.

That said, SCS does have a particular tone, and some do not like that tone. And I really wouldn't recommend the library to anyone who doesn't get along with the tone. There is nothing worse than a library you don't like the sound of. So be sure to listen carefully to it before you purchase it.


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## jaketanner (Jul 18, 2020)

if you want another string library to add to the overall sound and blend in with BBCSO, none of those are going to work except for maybe Dimension Strings as they are fairly dry. 

CSS are too lush and washy sounding. 
SStS pro is a bit too harsh sounding even though it's a symphonic size, it won't blend well sonically.
I don't have Dimension, but I do have Synchron Strings 1...lots of flexibility there with VSL.
SCS is way too small and too wet to really blend nicely, and bright. 

I recently (yesterday in fact), made a mistake...I was trying Discover strings over a track I am working on instead of the strings that are there...and it sounded fantastic. Little did I realize a bit later, that the reason it sounded so good, is because I had the stand alone Kontakt player open in the background with performance Samples' Con Moto strings. I forgot they were in the background and the MIDI triggered both sounds...so to blend with BBCSO, I'd look at Performance Samples.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Jul 19, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> if you want another string library to add to the overall sound and blend in with BBCSO, none of those are going to work except for maybe Dimension Strings as they are fairly dry.
> 
> CSS are too lush and washy sounding.
> SStS pro is a bit too harsh sounding even though it's a symphonic size, it won't blend well sonically.
> ...


But Con Moto strings don't have patches Legato (Runs), they only have legato.
SStS pro don't have *Runs* too.
Dimension Strings?
Whereas SCS and CSS has Legato (Fast) and (Runs)


omc_29 said:


> I already have the BBCSO Pro and also EWHO diamond.


BBCSO don't have *Runs*.
By the way, among other things EW Hollywood Strings have *Playable Runs*!
You are already packed!


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

GingerMaestro said:


> I own all 3 SStS, SCS and CSS..CSS wins hands down..I was reluctant to buy it a first as I wasn’t in love with the dark sound, but having taken the plunge, neither of the others come close...I use it everyday and when I try to use SCS I just give up !
> The hype on CSS here is well deserved



Is their reasons as to why you prefer CSS over something like SCS? Why do you often give up when trying to use SCS?


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I on the other hand love the legatos of SCS, which I find very transparent. I also love the shorts, which are very detailed and have a wide range of expression. There are things the library does not do well (or at least I can't get it to do well) like say a quick legato (non-runs) with four or more notes to a bow stroke (CSS is far better at that), and the legato of the first violins and cellos are better than the legatos for the second violins and violas. But in general I find the SCS legato very nice, and most importantly they fit the sound I'm after. There are some pitch issues, as there are pitch issues with live players. The thing about SCS is there are often more than a half dozen ways to do anything, including many different legato patches, so you have lots of options, and if one patch is too pitchy for you, another patch will be more suitable. And I have never encountered a pitch issue that I haven't quickly been able to find an acceptable workaround for.
> 
> That said, SCS does have a particular tone, and some do not like that tone. And I really wouldn't recommend the library to anyone who doesn't get along with the tone. There is nothing worse than a library you don't like the sound of. So be sure to listen carefully to it before you purchase it.



Thanks for all your advice regarding this. The legatos certainly look good and it seems like they are rather playable, this and all the good reviews I had read on it is what drew me to SCS. How is CSS for runs? Is their any patches in particular that have quite bad intonation issues in SCS or it is generally ok? In regards to the tone, I think that I do quite like the tone of the library. I think that I prefer it to the tone of CSS. However, this is just going on the demos I have heard on the sites and walkthrough videos. Finally, have you mixed and layered SCS with other string libraries before and does it work well for this? I would quite like to also use it with something like BBCSO but I have been unsure if the large room of air and wet sound of SCS would make it hard to mix and use with other libraries.


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## Marsen (Jul 19, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> That's interesting. Ive read several posts from others that say the opposite, that SCS has good legato and that the SStS Pro legatos are not that good.
> 
> Why do you prefer the Legatos in SStS pro but not the ones in SCS?



Well, I love the sound of the Chamber Strings, but the playability of the Studio Legatos and their sound with Vn 1-2 and Vc/Db in oktaves are so natural and glued together.
It has this old Hollywood (Western) sound, which I love.

I don't know, if you ever have seen these Karl May "Winnetoe" movies.
They're famous in Germany (maybe only in Germany- lol).
The sound of the theme can be 100% reproduced with SStS.

The sound is dense and also intimate caused of the small room.
The combination of the backed in room sound and some scoring stage reverb from plug in's has it's own quality.


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## MusicalG (Jul 19, 2020)

Just an interesting take on pitch issues, I asked a friend of mine, who was an incredible violinist, unfortunately he can no longer play due to chronic fatigue syndrome, he had so much soul in his playing, I played him something I had recorded, he said it sounds beautiful, but he could tell instantly it was synthetic, I asked him what the give-away was just out of my own curiosity, his reply was as follows,

"The Pitch is too Perfect, and that there weren't enough Portamentos 
Everyone says don't over use Portamentos on here, which I kind of get, but I do think they sound great, but I guess a well placed one is much better than too many not so well placed ones  

Just food for thought anyway


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> if you want another string library to add to the overall sound and blend in with BBCSO, none of those are going to work except for maybe Dimension Strings as they are fairly dry.
> 
> CSS are too lush and washy sounding.
> SStS pro is a bit too harsh sounding even though it's a symphonic size, it won't blend well sonically.
> ...



Dimension strings has also been a big consideration. I do like how it is a dry library and I understand VSL are brilliant for their legatos. However, it is more expensive than the others so I would wanna be quite sure that this would be quite a solid choice for what I'm looking for and offer more than what the others can. Can you make SCS dryer with the close mics?


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

I think I've decided not to go for SStS. The legato seems less able than SCS, dimension strings and CSS with only the two types of legato transition which is pretty much the same as the BBCSO so I'm unsure if this would add anything extra to what I already have, apart from being a more dry library with more flexible section sizes. However, both SCS and Dimension strings would also provide smaller sections sizes but they also appear to have much better legatos and deeper sampling. I think listening to CSS I'm still unsure about the tone of the library and I think I prefer SCS tone. So I'm now leaning more towards either SCS or VSL Dimension strings. My main concerns with SCS is in regards to how wet it is. Would this mix well with other libraries or is it just too wet?


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

MusicalG said:


> Just an interesting take on pitch issues, I asked a friend of mine, who was an incredible violinist, unfortunately he can no longer play due to chronic fatigue syndrome, he had so much soul in his playing, I played him something I had recorded, he said it sounds beautiful, but he could tell instantly it was synthetic, I asked him what the give-away was just out of my own curiosity, his reply was as follows,
> 
> "The Pitch is too Perfect, and that there weren't enough Portamentos
> Everyone says don't over use Portamentos on here, which I kind of get, but I do think they sound great, but I guess a well placed one is much better than too many not so well placed ones
> ...



That's a real shame he can no longer play anymore. I agree in regards to samples being too perfect with all imperfections being edited out. Some of the imperfections can really add realism to the sound. I quite like some of the smaller developers libraries that have some more imperfections or intimate sound in them like waverunners and Westwoods Cello Untamed. So the intonation issues that some have mentioned with SCS do not hugely concern me. Unless its really notably out of tune or really audible in a bad way then I don't think it would be to much of an issue. Not sure how I feel about the Portamentos. I don't particularly like using them too much myself, rather have a some well placed ones than over using it.


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## MusicalG (Jul 19, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> That's a real shame he can no longer play anymore. I agree in regards to samples being too perfect with all imperfections being edited out. Some of the imperfections can really add realism to the sound. I quite like some of the smaller developers libraries that have some more imperfections or intimate sounds in them like waverunners and Westwoods Cello Untamed. So the intonation issues that some have mentioned with SCS do not hugely concern me. Unless its really notably out of tune or really audible in a bad way then I don't think it would be to much of an issue. Not sure how I feel about the Portamentos. I don't particularly like using them too much myself, rather have a some well placed ones than over using it.


My friend was a great player, and would often give me a lump in my throat, and I am very into touching people through music, LASS was my first ever string library and some of the intonations in that library are a bit too far off, but it has a great sound but a bit of a learning curve compared to other libraries, I bought SCS recently, I already own BBCSO, I wasn't sure about SCS but now I love it, I can send you an MP3 in a private message if you would like to hear it, I used the individual performance patches, I won't post for public view, as its unfinished and I am also entering it into a competition. 
Let me know if you would like me to and I'll send it x


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

MusicalG said:


> My friend was a great player, and would often give me a lump in my throat, and I am very into touching people through music, LASS was my first ever string library and some of the intonations in that library are a bit too far off, but it has a great sound but a bit of a learning curve compared to other libraries, I bought SCS recently, I already own BBCSO, I wasn't sure about SCS but now I love it, I can send you an MP3 in a private message if you would like to hear it, I used the individual performance patches, I won't post for public view, as its unfinished and I am also entering it into a competition.
> Let me know if you would like me to and I'll send it x



What has your experience been with SCS and the BBCSO? That would be great if could send me over a message with an mp3 of SCS.


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## MusicalG (Jul 19, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> What has your experience been with SCS and the BBCSO? That would be great if could send me over a message with an mp3 of SCS.


I am relatively new to the whole orchestral library situation, so still have an awful lot to learn, but its very inspiring to have these kind of tools at your disposal  
I haven't got into blending or anything yet.

I'll send the mp3 now it uses NI Noire and SCS, the part could be better, but you'll get the idea I think  
If you need a bounce with the strings drier let me know, and I'll sort one out, excuse my singing lol x


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## GingerMaestro (Jul 19, 2020)

For what ever it's worth, the darkness of CSS mostly comes from the room mic, so it is pretty easy to turn that down, or turn it off. I've had quite a bit of success eq'ing a bit of brightness back in with eq or kush clariphonic. However over time I've started to dial that back and am now loving the darkness of the library. My engineer told me it's easier to brighten the sound up than darken it down...All that said you have to figure out how to deal with the built in legato delay, which takes a while..

Good luck, I'm sure which ever library you get, you will enjoy using it..SstS was my first proper string library and I learned a lot..


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## David Kudell (Jul 19, 2020)

GingerMaestro said:


> For what ever it's worth, the darkness of CSS mostly comes from the room mic, so it is pretty easy to turn that down, or turn it off. I've had quite a bit of success eq'ing a bit of brightness back in with eq or kush clariphonic. However over time I've started to dial that back and am now loving the darkness of the library. My engineer told me it's easier to brighten the sound up than darken it down...All that said you have to figure out how to deal with the built in legato delay, which takes a while..
> 
> Good luck, I'm sure which ever library you get, you will enjoy using it..SstS was my first proper string library and I learned a lot..


I also EQ CSS and that brightens it a bit. I typically blend CSS and Berlin Strings...Berlin has really the perfect tone and plays fast legato parts much better.

I’ve only recently got SCS but the tone is quite lovely from an initial impression!


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I also EQ CSS and that brightens it a bit. I typically blend CSS and Berlin Strings...Berlin has really the perfect tone and plays fast legato parts much better.
> 
> I’ve only recently got SCS but the tone is quite lovely from an initial impression!



Berlin Strings does look great. I would have probably also considered that one but it is very expensive and out of my budget really. I am starting to lean more towards going with SCS now


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## jbuhler (Jul 19, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Thanks for all your advice regarding this. The legatos certainly look good and it seems like they are rather playable, this and all the good reviews I had read on it is what drew me to SCS. How is CSS for runs? Is their any patches in particular that have quite bad intonation issues in SCS or it is generally ok? In regards to the tone, I think that I do quite like the tone of the library. I think that I prefer it to the tone of CSS. However, this is just going on the demos I have heard on the sites and walkthrough videos. Finally, have you mixed and layered SCS with other string libraries before and does it work well for this? I would quite like to also use it with something like BBCSO but I have been unsure if the large room of air and wet sound of SCS would make it hard to mix and use with other libraries.


I don’t have CSS, as I don’t like the tone as well as other libraries. But so many people have it and demo it that you can get a good sense of its capabilities. It’s a truly exceptionlibrary and its legatos do seem as good as everyone says. From my experience of demos it handles the legatos of fast music really well in addition to the lyrical stuff. Almost certainly some day I’ll get it as well.

SCS is of course a chamber orch and so much smaller than CSS. SCS layers well with everything I’ve tried including itself. You can layer, say, the the ord patch with the con sord to create a bigger orchestra. It layers well with SSS, and if you do that SCS works for divisi or a half section. (The numbers aren’t right but the effect is.) SCS layers with the Albions and brings section detail to it and so offers a way to supplement those libraries with detail rather than fully replacing them with a section library. I’ve found SCS works well with Berlin Strings, though I don’t use that combination often because BS is such a RAM hog. I don’t have BBCSO, but I’d be very surprised if SCS didn't layer with it very nicely and relatively easily. The additional mics from SCS Pro might make it easier. 

SCS flautandos are to die for and they are available with legato. The library also has very useful ensemble patches.

In general I find SCS handles runs well but other fast figures requiring legato are hit and miss. Again judging from demos and library shootouts CSS seems to handle such figures more adeptly.


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## Cathbad (Jul 19, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> My budget would be around £800



For that budget you could get CSS and CSSS and still have a couple of hundred quid left over. It's a common layering combination that works very well and is easy to use.

Perhaps have a quick look at Areia from Audio Imperia and Venice Modern Strings from Fluffy Audio too.


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## jaketanner (Jul 19, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Can you make SCS dryer with the close mics?


to an extent, but not dry and depends on the articulation.


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## jaketanner (Jul 19, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> So the intonation issues that some have mentioned with SCS do not hugely concern me


bothers the hell out of me though. Imagine playing an ostinato and repeatedly hitting the same flat note over and over. How "real" does that sound? A live player would certainly adjust and if it was a recording they'd do it again. Granted though, you CAN go in to the GUI and fix it, not to hard...but it always killed me that for the price of the library, SFA leaves it up to us to fix if we want. 

Bottom line is that while imperfections are okay, a true professional string section does not play out of tune often or repeatedly.


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> bothers the hell out of me though. Imagine playing an ostinato and repeatedly hitting the same flat note over and over. How "real" does that sound? A live player would certainly adjust and if it was a recording they'd do it again. Granted though, you CAN go in to the GUI and fix it, not to hard...but it always killed me that for the price of the library, SFA leaves it up to us to fix if we want.
> 
> Bottom line is that while imperfections are okay, a true professional string section does not play out of tune often or repeatedly.



True. I suppose I can see were it could cause an issue with ostinatos and RR repeating the same flat note. It depends how significant these intonation issues are within the library.


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

Cathbad said:


> For that budget you could get CSS and CSSS and still have a couple of hundred quid left over. It's a common layering combination that works very well and is easy to use.
> 
> Perhaps have a quick look at Areia from Audio Imperia and Venice Modern Strings from Fluffy Audio too.



I'll certainly have a look at Areia and Venice modern strings. However, I had already pretty much cut my choices down to the four mentioned after looking at quite a few different libraries, I think id probably just prefer to get one of these four now.


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## jbuhler (Jul 19, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> bothers the hell out of me though. Imagine playing an ostinato and repeatedly hitting the same flat note over and over. How "real" does that sound?


In context it often isn’t even an issue and in exposed passages you can just substitute one of the many other patches when it is. That’s the beauty of so many patches and options. I very much like the performances I get out of SCS. And I do not find SCS takes a lot of tweaking. It takes me far longer to get Berlin Strings, say, to a place that I am satisfied with than SCS. I still say the biggest issue with SCS is its tone. Some people just don’t like it, and that’s cool. But if you are attracted by the tone SCS is a joy to work with.


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I don’t have CSS, as I don’t like the tone as well as other libraries. But so many people have it and demo it that you can get a good sense of its capabilities. It’s a truly exceptionlibrary and its legatos do seem as good as everyone says. From my experience of demos it handles the legatos of fast music really well in addition to the lyrical stuff. Almost certainly some day I’ll get it as well.
> 
> SCS is of course a chamber orch and so much smaller than CSS. SCS layers well with everything I’ve tried including itself. You can layer, say, the the ord patch with the con sord to create a bigger orchestra. It layers well with SSS, and if you do that SCS works for divisi or a half section. (The numbers aren’t right but the effect is.) SCS layers with the Albions and brings section detail to it and so offers a way to supplement those libraries with detail rather than fully replacing them with a section library. I’ve found SCS works well with Berlin Strings, though I don’t use that combination often because BS is such a RAM hog. I don’t have BBCSO, but I’d be very surprised if SCS didn't layer with it very nicely and relatively easily. The additional mics from SCS Pro might make it easier.
> 
> ...



Thanks again for the advice on this. I feel similar in regards to CSS, I'm just unsure on the tone of it. I'm sure you can EQ it and change its tone to an extent but from the few demos I've listened too and also the demos on the site, I'm still unsure on it. Like you I may eventually end up getting it. I've never heard anyone ever say anything bad about its legato and it most definitely appears to be a extremely well programmed library. 

That sounds good regarding SCS. The layering with other libraries and its wet sound was really my main concerns with it but it sounds like the smaller size section helps with that. If it layers well with all the other libraries you mentioned then I'm sure it would also layer relatively well with the BBCSO. I would ideally quite like the Pro version of it for those extra mics, but its quite a lot more money. If I do get SCS then I might add that in the future if they had a good sale on it as I understand the stereo pair and close Ribon mics should give a bit more of a closer/dry sound, the outriggers could be quite useful as well. It sounds like SCS does handle runs really well. Is their anything in particular with faster lines that it struggles with?


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> In context it often isn’t even an issue and in exposed passages you can just substitute one of the many other patches when it is. That’s the beauty of so many patches and options. I very much like the performances I get out of SCS. And I do not find SCS takes a lot of tweaking. It takes me far longer to get Berlin Strings, say, to a place that I am satisfied with than SCS. I still say the biggest issue with SCS is its tone. Some people just don’t like it, and that’s cool. But if you are attracted by the tone SCS is a joy to work with.



Again, that does sound good in regards to SCS and less tweaking needed. Something that just plays well and is easier to achieve the results from performing it in rather than having to really tweak it after to get a good result sounds appealing to me. I'd rather have a legato patch that can easily do some nice sounding runs that I can play in live on the piano than having to layer loads of different patches and then having to tweak lots of midi to get it to sound good. I find that you can get good results with runs with EWHO but I've always had to tweak it quite a lot and layers lots of different patches for it to start sounding more realistic.


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## jaketanner (Jul 19, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> In context it often isn’t even an issue and in exposed passages you can just substitute one of the many other patches when it is. That’s the beauty of so many patches and options. I very much like the performances I get out of SCS. And I do not find SCS takes a lot of tweaking. It takes me far longer to get Berlin Strings, say, to a place that I am satisfied with than SCS. I still say the biggest issue with SCS is its tone. Some people just don’t like it, and that’s cool. But if you are attracted by the tone SCS is a joy to work with.


I do think the tone can be better sculpted with the pro version. Also having SStS pro, those extra mics really make a difference...smooths out the library more. I might end up with SCS pro some time down the line when it's on a major sale though.


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## jbuhler (Jul 19, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Thanks again for the advice on this. I feel similar in regards to CSS, I'm just unsure on the tone of it. I'm sure you can EQ it and change its tone to an extent but from the few demos I've listened too and also the demos on the site, I'm still unsure on it. Like you I may eventually end up getting it. I've never heard anyone ever say anything bad about its legato and it most definitely appears to be a extremely well programmed library.
> 
> That sounds good regarding SCS. The layering with other libraries and its wet sound was really my main concerns with it but it sounds like the smaller size section helps with that. If it layers well with all the other libraries you mentioned then I'm sure it would also layer relatively well with the BBCSO. I would ideally quite like the Pro version of it for those extra mics, but its quite a lot more money. If I do get SCS then I might add that in the future if they had a good sale on it as I understand the stereo pair and close Ribon mics should give a bit more of a closer/dry sound, the outriggers could be quite useful as well. It sounds like SCS does handle runs really well. Is their anything in particular with faster lines that it struggles with?


The runs patch wasn’t working properly with the performance legato patch for awhile. That’s now been fixed. I find the legato runs reasonably credible but a bit thin sounding due to the small ensemble. As with much of this stuff it sounds better in context than alone. In general and aside from the portamento I would say that SCS legato is transparent. That is, it does not draw attention to itself. It’s one of the things I like about it.

There was a Mike Verta piece posted on the forum at one point that had a very fast legato string figure. CSS was the only library that handled it very credibly at all. SCS could not (at least I couldn’t get it to) and if I had to use SCS on it, I would have opted to cheat by using mostly shorts, which sounded ok in itself but was not the figure that Verta wrote.


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## Scamper (Jul 19, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> I would ideally quite like the Pro version of it for those extra mics, but its quite a lot more money. If I do get SCS then I might add that in the future if they had a good sale on it as I understand the stereo pair and close Ribon mics should give a bit more of a closer/dry sound, the outriggers could be quite useful as well.



I'd say to start with SCS, you don't really need Pro. The sound of the stereo pair and close ribbon doesn't sound drier to me, but it's just a different flavor. The close ribbons are a bit warmer and the stereo pair is grittier than the tree.

Time to whip out the old mic comparison: 

Here's another small example for runs with SCS: 

Otherwise, between CSS and SCS, CSS would generally be a more solid option, but considering, that you have BBCSO already, I think SCS would expand your sounds and BBCSO better with a smaller chamber sized sound. If you want to use CSS for better runs or legatos and use it in combination with BBCSO, it should give a more even sound, due to the medium size of CSS.

It's another thing to consider between both libraries, but in the end, both are fantastic. If you like, I can make a little demo of layering BBCSO with SCS for example?


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## jaketanner (Jul 19, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> The runs patch wasn’t working properly with the performance legato patch for awhile. That’s now been fixed. I find the legato runs reasonably credible but a bit thin sounding due to the small ensemble. As with much of this stuff it sounds better in context than alone. In general and aside from the portamento I would say that SCS legato is transparent. That is, it does not draw attention to itself. It’s one of the things I like about it.
> 
> There was a Mike Verta piece posted on the forum at one point that had a very fast legato string figure. CSS was the only library that handled it very credibly at all. SCS could not (at least I couldn’t get it to) and if I had to use SCS on it, I would have opted to cheat by using mostly shorts, which sounded ok in itself but was not the figure that Verta wrote.


I think I remember that one...I tried it with a marcato patch from an 8dio library...I believe Agitato, and sounded pretty close.


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## jbuhler (Jul 19, 2020)

Scamper said:


> I'd say to start with SCS, you don't really need Pro. The sound of the stereo pair and close ribbon doesn't sound drier to me, but it's just a different flavor. The close ribbons are a bit warmer and the stereo pair is grittier than the tree.
> 
> Time to whip out the old mic comparison:
> 
> ...



I was perfectly happy with the CTA SCS until SF offered the additional mics at a deal that was too good to pass up. I find the outriggers to be the most useful of the additional mics, but the stereo mixes are what I now use most of the time because they sound good while minimizing system resources.


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## Scamper (Jul 19, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I was perfectly happy with the CTA SCS until SF offered the additional mics at a deal that was too good to pass up. I find the outriggers to be the most useful of the additional mics, but the stereo mixes are what I now use most of the time because they sound good while minimizing system resources.



Oh right, I didn't listen to the outriggers for ages and they don't just sound wider, but quite different. But yeah, the stereo mixes also make it easy to switch between the main and alt sound of SCS, if you need it.


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> The runs patch wasn’t working properly with the performance legato patch for awhile. That’s now been fixed. I find the legato runs reasonably credible but a bit thin sounding due to the small ensemble. As with much of this stuff it sounds better in context than alone. In general and aside from the portamento I would say that SCS legato is transparent. That is, it does not draw attention to itself. It’s one of the things I like about it.
> 
> There was a Mike Verta piece posted on the forum at one point that had a very fast legato string figure. CSS was the only library that handled it very credibly at all. SCS could not (at least I couldn’t get it to) and if I had to use SCS on it, I would have opted to cheat by using mostly shorts, which sounded ok in itself but was not the figure that Verta wrote.



Bet that was annoying in regards to the runs patch not working properly with the performance legato for a while. Good that they fixed that though. Are the runs quite playable from a piano/keyboard?


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## omc_29 (Jul 19, 2020)

Scamper said:


> I'd say to start with SCS, you don't really need Pro. The sound of the stereo pair and close ribbon doesn't sound drier to me, but it's just a different flavor. The close ribbons are a bit warmer and the stereo pair is grittier than the tree.
> 
> Time to whip out the old mic comparison:
> 
> ...




Thanks for the Mic comparisons, that was really useful. The close Ribons do sound a little warmer but I do think that the CTA would be sufficient enough. If the other mics came up in a really good sale then might consider that. The runs sound pretty good as well in the example.

I think you are right in regards to both CSS and SCS. They both seem like good option but as you say as I already have the BBCSO which has quite a large ensemble size, the SCS might expand my sounds a bit better than CSS as its a smaller chamber sized sound. 

That would be really useful and helpful if you could make a little demo layering the BBCSO and SCS. Really appreciate your time and effort to do that.


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## omc_29 (Jul 20, 2020)

Thanks everyone for all you advice on this. After the help on here and also thinking about it some more I think as I already have BBCSO and EWHO, I am probably going to go with SCS. I felt that the smaller chamber sizes would probably compliment BBCSO better and provide some better string legatos than what is in BBCSO. I'm still interested in VSL Dimension strings and might add this at a later date for a studio string sound and the flexibility of having a really dry string library but ill probably get that when its in a good sale, its just too expensive at its full price.


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## holywilly (Jul 20, 2020)

I love VSL dimension Strings, it’s a beautiful string library that can let me write from emotional to brutal epic scores.


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## omc_29 (Jul 20, 2020)

holywilly said:


> I love VSL dimension Strings, it’s a beautiful string library that can let me write from emotional to brutal epic scores.



It certainly looks like a brilliant library. Something that I might get when its in a good sale or if someone is selling on for a cheaper price. Its just a bit too expensive at full price. I love the VSL Synchronized Woodwinds!!


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## holywilly (Jul 20, 2020)

I usually layer DS with other strings, like Synchron Strings or BBCSO, treating DS as close mic.


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## jaketanner (Jul 20, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> It certainly looks like a brilliant library. Something that I might get when its in a good sale or if someone is selling on for a cheaper price. Its just a bit too expensive at full price. I love the VSL Synchronized Woodwinds!!


I doubt you will find “better” legato in SCS. SFA is not known for their legato regardless what library. If you just want a smaller chamber strings, look at Light And Sound before SCS unless you need the articulations and techniques SCS has. But again keep in mind the rooms are totally different. The sound of SCS is also quite different than BBC. But best of luck with it if you do decide.


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## jaketanner (Jul 20, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> So out of these choices which would you go for if you could choose only one? I've been looking for a good core string library that I can use to supplement with the BBCSO Strings. I find some things can be a bit lacking with the BBCSO strings in particular faster legato lines and runs. I've pretty much got it down to these four choices. I'm leaning towards CSS or SCS at the moment as I have read that the SStS legatos are a bit lacking in the spitfire studio series. The VSL dimension strings also looks good but its more expensive.


Btw, I just went on the VSL site and DS 1 is not more than SCS which is $699 unless they lowered the price. Or were you looking at DS bundle with all three libraries?


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## omc_29 (Jul 20, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I doubt you will find “better” legato in SCS. SFA is not known for their legato regardless what library. If you just want a smaller chamber strings, look at Light And Sound before SCS unless you need the articulations and techniques SCS has. But again keep in mind the rooms are totally different. The sound of SCS is also quite different than BBC. But best of luck with it if you do decide.



The things I find missing in BBCSO is some better faster legatos and runs, SCS seems to have been recorded with a lot more legato transitions and it looks like it does runs relatively well. It looks like they can be played in rather easily and programmed quicker. I did take a look at the light and sound strings. This also looks good but I've heard that this also doesn't do faster legato lines or runs that well and is much better for slower pieces and thus this would not really add anything to what I already have.


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## jbuhler (Jul 20, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> The things I find missing in BBCSO is some better faster legatos and runs, SCS seems to have been recorded with a lot more legato transitions and it looks like it does runs relatively well. It looks like they can be played in rather easily and programmed quicker. I did take a look at the light and sound strings. This also looks good but I've heard that this also doesn't do faster legato lines or runs that well and is much better for slower pieces and thus this would not really add anything to what I already have.


I have L&S. It’s a nice library but I haven’t warmed to its sound on its own. Personally, I don’t find the legato a general improvement over what’s available in SCS (it’s different rather than better is how I’d describe it, so it’s more a question of whether its difference better suits your music) and L&S has far, far fewer articulations, not just in legatos but especially with the shorts. L&S and SCS do layer reasonably well together and I’ve had some success in using them as divisi partners in certain types of passages.


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## richhickey (Jul 20, 2020)

VSL Chamber Strings remains a great library for adding definition and agility to string sections, as well as being a fantastic chamber lib on its own. You can now get the entire thing, including con sords, for ~$600 ($475 w/o).


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## omc_29 (Jul 20, 2020)

Thanks again for everyone's help on this. Finding it quite a hard decision. I want both of the VSl synchronized Dimension strings and the Spitfire Chamber Strings  At least I've now narrowed it down to two.


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## jbuhler (Jul 20, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Thanks again for everyone's help on this. Finding it quite a hard decision. I want both of the VSl synchronized Dimension strings and the Spitfire Chamber Strings  At least I've now narrowed it down to two.


The good thing is that there really aren’t any bad choices, just choices that will be more or less useful for your music. That doesn’t, of course, make the decision any easier and to an extent we do want them all...


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## jaketanner (Jul 20, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Thanks again for everyone's help on this. Finding it quite a hard decision. I want both of the VSl synchronized Dimension strings and the Spitfire Chamber Strings  At least I've now narrowed it down to two.


What version of BBCSO do you have? I have the Discover and I have SCS...they sound worlds apart even though Discover is a VERY scaled down, the tone is probably close to the full version. 

I know libraries aren't cheap, and I've made mistakes in the past...on it's own SCS can be good...but layered with the string sound in BBC...I personally don't see it. If runs are what you're looking for the most, go with CS2 then...there's a runs patch built in, and closer in sound I think...But BBC actually has beautiful sounding strings and will be hard to find ones that match.

BTW...SCS with just the close mic is very pronounced on the left side..so that's why I asked what version of BBC you have...if you have Core, then I will be even more doubtful you can blend them...with pro, you may find mic positions that might work, but have to sacrifice your position just to add SCS (or any other library for runs), is a tradeoff. Wish I had it to try it for you.

Best of luck anyway...


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## jaketanner (Jul 20, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Thanks again for everyone's help on this. Finding it quite a hard decision. I want both of the VSl synchronized Dimension strings and the Spitfire Chamber Strings  At least I've now narrowed it down to two.


BTW, do you have VEP ? if so, in the Epic orchestra freebie, you have some VSL libraries you can easily check out against BBC.


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## omc_29 (Jul 20, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> What version of BBCSO do you have? I have the Discover and I have SCS...they sound worlds apart even though Discover is a VERY scaled down, the tone is probably close to the full version.
> 
> I know libraries aren't cheap, and I've made mistakes in the past...on it's own SCS can be good...but layered with the string sound in BBC...I personally don't see it. If runs are what you're looking for the most, go with CS2 then...there's a runs patch built in, and closer in sound I think...But BBC actually has beautiful sounding strings and will be hard to find ones that match.
> 
> ...



Thanks for you help on this. It's been quite a difficult decision to make. I have the BBCSO Pro version. I think at this stage I will probably go with either SCS or the VSL Dimension strings but as you mention the mixing of SCS with BBCSO has been one of my concerns which is the main reason I've been hesitant to just go with SCS.


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## omc_29 (Jul 20, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> BTW, do you have VEP ? if so, in the Epic orchestra freebie, you have some VSL libraries you can easily check out against BBC.



I don't have VEP. I only have the VSL Synchronized Woodwinds 1 which I really like, I find that an absolutely brilliant woodwinds library.!! How are the runs and legatos on the VSL string libraries. Their is also their Synchronized chamber strings which is quite a lot cheaper but I read some bad things about it in regard to the differences between the synchronized and normal versions.


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## jaketanner (Jul 20, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> I don't have VEP. I only have the VSL Synchronized Woodwinds 1 which I really like, I find that an absolutely brilliant woodwinds library.!! How are the runs and legatos on the VSL string libraries. Their is also their Synchronized chamber strings which is quite a lot cheaper but I read some bad things about it in regard to the differences between the synchronized and normal versions.


My next WW library may very well be the SY Winds...haven't decided yet, although I heard that BBCSO has some really nice winds also.

I have Synchron Strings 1...haven't tried runs yet with it. There are a lot of controls as you know for legato, that I'm sure you can make work. For runs I usually use a trem patch or marcato depending on how fast and how long. Maybe you can find an alternate patch in BBC that will work and save the money...but as someone pointed out, there is no bad choice...the only bad thing would be if you can't get them to blend..because either of the libraries mentioned will work on their own. Tough call...BBC is unique in sound..I personally love the string sound in BBC, seems to work in many cases.

Now that I think about it...there is one person that may have a better answer for you. His name is @Mattia Chiappa ...can you help the OP? You should check out his YT channel...uses BBC quite a bit and might be able to help you.


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## jbuhler (Jul 20, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Thanks for you help on this. It's been quite a difficult decision to make. I have the BBCSO Pro version. I think at this stage I will probably go with either SCS or the VSL Dimension strings but as you mention the mixing of SCS with BBCSO has been one of my concerns which is the main reason I've been hesitant to just go with SCS.


It’s also a hard call because what sits well together for me and my music might not work at all for you and your music. That said it’s very rare for me that libraries just won’t sit together at all even when they aren’t positioned to match (like HZS and SCS, which work fine once you get the setup right.) And I find it harder to get dry libraries to sit with wet ones. My one concern with SCS and BBCSO is that the imprint of Air is pretty strong on SCS, even in the close mics, and so getting the two string sections to sit together might erode the famed cohesiveness of BBCSO since it’s likely easier to move BBCSO toward Air than vice versa.


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## omc_29 (Jul 20, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> My next WW library may very well be the SY Winds...haven't decided yet, although I heard that BBCSO has some really nice winds also.
> 
> I have Synchron Strings 1...haven't tried runs yet with it. There are a lot of controls as you know for legato, that I'm sure you can make work. For runs I usually use a trem patch or marcato depending on how fast and how long. Maybe you can find an alternate patch in BBC that will work and save the money...but as someone pointed out, there is no bad choice...the only bad thing would be if you can't get them to blend..because either of the libraries mentioned will work on their own. Tough call...BBC is unique in sound..I personally love the string sound in BBC, seems to work in many cases.
> 
> Now that I think about it...there is one person that may have a better answer for you. His name is @Mattia Chiappa ...can you help the OP? You should check out his YT channel...uses BBC quite a bit and might be able to help you.




I'd highly recommend VSL Synchronized woodwinds. It has brilliant playable legatos. However, the woodwinds in the BBCSO are also really nice. Brilliant tone!! I'm quite happy for woodwinds between those two.

Has been quite a tough decision to make in this case, especially in regards to the mixing of SCS with the BBCSO strings, but I suppose as you say their is probably no really bad choice that I could make here. At the worst I suppose if I did get SCS and it really did not mix well with the BBCSO strings then I could maybe just use this on its own when I want a more focused or detailed sound/ smaller sized section. I'm sure other woodwinds and brass libraries including BBCSO woodwinds would mix ok with SCS?

I'll check out Mattia Chiappa Youtube in a sec. Thanks for tagging him in this.


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## Scamper (Jul 20, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> That would be really useful and helpful if you could make a little demo layering the BBCSO and SCS. Really appreciate your time and effort to do that.



I'm not sure, if you still need it, but I made this short demo and decided to throw CSS into the mix as well.
So, there is a short string snippet using the basic articulations and showing SCS (Close+Tree mics), CSS (mix mics) and BBCSO on their own and all possible combinations.



Some thoughts...
Dynamic range: SCS > CSS > BBCSO
Depth of sound/room: SCS > BBCSO > CSS
Musicality: CSS > BBCSO/SCS

The articulations in SCS are a bit uneven. The staccatos on the second violins are very short, while they are longer on the violas. In BBCSO, there is not that much of a difference between staccato and spiccato. CSS is very consistent concerning the articulations.

I think the layering works well enough for all cases, but my favorite would be CSS+SCS to have the soft musicality of CSS and the clarity and depth of SCS in AIR, which basses especially add a lot.

UPDATE:
CSS with eq matching (BBCSO Strings) and layered SCS Basses.


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## omc_29 (Jul 20, 2020)

Scamper said:


> I'm not sure, if you still need it, but I made this short demo and decided to throw CSS into the mix as well.
> So, there is a short string snippet using the basic articulations and showing SCS (Close+Tree mics), CSS (mix mics) and BBCSO on their own and all possible combinations.
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks a lot for doing this, I really appreciate it and this is really helpful. I agree with you thoughts on this. I like the SCS in this example, it is more thin sounding and has more higher end but that can be good for layering and it does seems to have a more detailed sound. I also like the shorts on the SCS example as well.

I agree with you in regards to the layering, it seems to work ok in all cases. Its probably best with CSS and SCS in this example, however, SCS and the BBCSO seemed to blend quite nicely. I also was not expecting the SCS example to have as much clarity as it seems to have here. it seems quite clean and more dry/closer than what I was expecting.

I think after listening to this and after the previous advice I think I am probably going to get the SCS. CSS does sound nice here, the legatos are lovely but I'm not sure it would add too much more to what I already have with EWHO Strings and BBCSO, by getting SCS ill probably get some extra flexibility and variety with the smaller sized section and it does seem to layer quite well with other libraries. It might also be quite nice just to use SCS alone without blending any other libraries when I want a more detailed and smaller ensemble size.


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## Scamper (Jul 20, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> I think after listening to this and after the previous advice I think I am probably going to get the SCS.



SCS is really a great pick.

While it has the unusual and a bit unbalanced 4/3/3/3/3 setup, while the legatos aren't that smooth and the high strings are a bit thin/nasal and while the intonation can be a tad off at times, it still offers a fantastic sound as an ensemble, very detailed and intimate and yet with a big and powerful low end. It has a unique character because of the imperfections and compared to more "polished" libraries like the studio strings, it sounds more lively to me.

Right, I also love the shorts in SCS and AIR really makes them shine throughout the whole dynamic range. Also, since you have BBCSO, I think it's a bit easier to use that with SCS, than say CSS, because it handles a bit differently and you need to considerate the delays. BBCSO and SCS are more responsive and can be handled in a similar way.


But as was also mentioned above, while the strings alone mix pretty well, you might have to use the close mics and pull the trees a bit down, if you want to keep most of the BBCSO sound.

In the example above, the close mics probably helped quite a bit to make it sound drier and more direct. I attached a version just using the tree mics, if you're interested.


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## omc_29 (Jul 20, 2020)

Scamper said:


> SCS is really a great pick.
> 
> While it has the unusual and a bit unbalanced 4/3/3/3/3 setup, while the legatos aren't that smooth and the high strings are a bit thin/nasal and while the intonation can be a tad off at times, it still offers a fantastic sound as an ensemble, very detailed and intimate and yet with a big and powerful low end. It has a unique character because of the imperfections and compared to more "polished" libraries like the studio strings, it sounds more lively to me.
> 
> ...



Thanks again for the examples you posted, there were very helpful. The drier example above was very useful to hear  it gives quite a nice amount of clarity and sounds more closer than I thought it would with SCS. 

Yeah I agree. I think if mixing it in then I would definitely want to bring up more of the close mics and pull the trees down.


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## Dale Turner (Jul 21, 2020)

Here's a bunch of OLD stuff I did around Thanksgiving 2015, w/*VSL's DIMENSION STRINGS*, if that's of interest to anyone... The *PSYCHO* cues were all done before I had VSL's MIR.

Worth noting that these were done NOT to achieve super authenticity, but done superfast, to see how okay things would be at "mock-up RAMMING speed":




Also a few (2016) from Schoenberg's VERKLÄRTE NACHT (Excerpts with *VSL's Dimension Strings*)
If memory serves, I mainly did these as a BEATMAPPING test (copping tempo changes from an actual recording)? So again, not trying to be overly perfect.
*The "mellow" bits (TRACKS 3-4) sound best, to me.*




And a more recent, oddly-panned PRETTY DRY, oddball thing (*VSL's Dimension Strings*):


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Dale Turner said:


> Here's a bunch of OLD stuff I did around Thanksgiving 2015, w/*VSL's DIMENSION STRINGS*, if that's of interest to anyone... The *PSYCHO* cues were all done before I had VSL's MIR.
> 
> Worth noting that these were done NOT to achieve super authenticity, but done superfast, to see how okay things would be at "mock-up RAMMING speed":
> 
> ...



Dimension definitely deserves a second look from me as well. They sound good. Any issues you ran into? I have Synchron Strings so will be in addition to. Or do you feel it’s too similar?


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## Dale Turner (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Dimension definitely deserves a second look from me as well. They sound good. Any issues you ran into? I have Synchron Strings so will be in addition to. Or do you feel it’s too similar?



To me, purely for the HUGE number of available articulations, and flexibility (dry, size of sections, etc.), for detailed interweaving lines, and really great legato, they're pretty awesome.

I should have mentioned that the PSYCHO experiments I did were before I had the full version of DS1, which is what you need to upgrade to in order to have their kick-ass Legato patch. (I forget the actual name of the patch...)

A friend of mine (Carl King) has the Synchron Strings and loves them, and everything I've heard him do with them are fantastic (he does lots of VSL's recent online demos).

The last couple years though, most of what I've done is with more "acoustic/elec." instruments, played by myself, so I've delved less into this topic... So I sort of feel clueless, this particular moment, as far as how things measure up... But I know, for me to learn about string writing (instead of a "kill-em all" keys patch), and all articulations, and the flexibility of resizing sections, Dimension Strings lined up perfectly with what I was trying to do. I hope to get back into that sort of madness soon!!


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

Dale Turner said:


> Here's a bunch of OLD stuff I did around Thanksgiving 2015, w/*VSL's DIMENSION STRINGS*, if that's of interest to anyone... The *PSYCHO* cues were all done before I had VSL's MIR.
> 
> Worth noting that these were done NOT to achieve super authenticity, but done superfast, to see how okay things would be at "mock-up RAMMING speed":
> 
> ...




Sounds great. They do have a really nice classical sound to them. I'm definitely planning to get the synchronized version at some point. Hoping they do a good sale on it soon.


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

Dale Turner said:


> To me, purely for the HUGE number of available articulations, and flexibility (dry, size of sections, etc.), for detailed interweaving lines, and really great legato, they're pretty awesome.
> 
> I should have mentioned that the PSYCHO experiments I did were before I had the full version of DS1, which is what you need to upgrade to in order to have their kick-ass Legato patch. (I forget the actual name of the patch...)
> 
> ...



I do really like how flexible they look in regards to the sections sizes and the fact that they are dry!! They have a nice classical tone to them. Do you know if they have the full legato patch (Kick-ass patch) in the first version of the Synchronized Dimensions vol 1?


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Dimension definitely deserves a second look from me as well. They sound good. Any issues you ran into? I have Synchron Strings so will be in addition to. Or do you feel it’s too similar?



Certainly does. I'm planning on getting them now. I did also end up going with Spitfire chamber strings in the end, downloading now!! I had discount on them so it made it more worth it to go for the Spitfire chamber strings now and wait to get VSL dimension strings when its in a good sale.


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Dale Turner said:


> To me, purely for the HUGE number of available articulations, and flexibility (dry, size of sections, etc.), for detailed interweaving lines, and really great legato, they're pretty awesome.
> 
> I should have mentioned that the PSYCHO experiments I did were before I had the full version of DS1, which is what you need to upgrade to in order to have their kick-ass Legato patch. (I forget the actual name of the patch...)
> 
> ...


Do you mean that the latest Synchronized Dimension strings don't have legato?


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Certainly does. I'm planning on getting them now. I did also end up going with chamber strings in the end, downloading now!! I had discount on them so it made it more worth it to go for the chamber strings now and wait to get dimension strings when its in a good sale.


yeah..the price is stopping me though. Over $700...not sure now.. LOL. But maybe on a BF sale.


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## purple (Jul 21, 2020)

I think everyone should have CSS. There is simply not a more consistent library out there. The legato is near perfection. If I could use only one library for the rest of my life it would be CSS. The only reason I could see anyone needing to get SCS is if you're really into that "spitfire sound" and don't like the tone of CSS.


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> yeah..the price is stopping me though. Over $700...not sure now.. LOL. But maybe on a BF sale.




Yeah that the reason why I didn't end up going for VSL Dimension strings. They are pretty expensive! Especially if you also want any con sordino or sul tasto. I think its just bit too expensive at full price, but if they do a good sale during BF sales then I'll probably get it if the price is right.


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

purple said:


> I think everyone should have CSS. There is simply not a more consistent library out there. The legato is near perfection. If I could use only one library for the rest of my life it would be CSS. The only reason I could see anyone needing to get SCS is if you're really into that "spitfire sound" and don't like the tone of CSS.



I ended up going with the SCS in the end. CSS certainly seems like a solid and great library!! However, in the end I concluded that as I already had BBCSO and EWHO diamond that SCS would provide me more than what CSS would offer including; a smaller section size, more legato options/ transition types and some additional articulations. I'm also one of the ones that is a little unsure on the tone of CSS, the demos on the site don't convince me regarding the strings tone. The delays in the legatos would probably start to annoy me a little bit as well. I like to play parts in live on a piano, so always having to tackle a delay in the legatos would be a bit of a pain.


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Do you mean that the latest Synchronized Dimension strings don't have legato?



I believe they have legato in the Synchronized Dimension strings but I'm not sure if they missed out some legato types maybe? I thought that the synchronized version had the full legato patches. I know in the Sychronized special editions they have a stripped down legato with less transitions, such as no fast legato.


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Yeah that the reason why I didn't end up going for VSL Dimension strings. They are pretty expensive! Especially if you also want any con sordino or sul tasto. I think its just bit too expensive at full price, but if they do a good sale during BF sales then I'll probably get it if the price is right.


Yeah..it's well over $1k for the bundle..and about the same as the full Berlin strings, but Afflatus which also have a lot of options and articulations are less money...but these are the high end of the spectrum. I think the higher end libraries are not gonna get you work, but if you have work coming in, those might be a good choice. Otherwise I can't really justify that money when there are SO many other options that will do the job.


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> I believe they have legato in the Synchronized Dimension strings but I'm not sure if they missed out some legato types maybe? I thought that the synchronized version had the full legato patches. I know in the Sychronized special editions they have a stripped down legato with less transitions, such as no fast legato.


yeah the SE versions are scaled down..but I'd imagine the full versions have everything.


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## Ben (Jul 21, 2020)

Of course, the SYNCHRON-ized Dimension Strings have legatos, wouldn't be VSL if they didn't have them 
The SYNCHRON-ized have all articulations, including the Full Library ones.

The SE Dimension Strings have less articulations, but include con sordino.






SYNCHRON-ized Dimension Strings I - III | VSL - Instruments







www.vsl.info










SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions 5 - Dimension Strings | VSL - Instruments







www.vsl.info


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Yeah..it's well over $1k for the bundle..and about the same as the full Berlin strings, but Afflatus which also have a lot of options and articulations are less money...but these are the high end of the spectrum. I think the higher end libraries are not gonna get you work, but if you have work coming in, those might be a good choice. Otherwise I can't really justify that money when there are SO many other options that will do the job.



Exactly my thoughts on it. That is a big reason as to why I ended up going with SCS in the end. If the full set had been at a comparable price to SCS then I would have possibly gone the other way and got the Dimension strings. 

If its in a really good sale then i'll probably just get volume 1 of it. The full set is probably still too expensive for me, even when on sale.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Jul 21, 2020)

purple said:


> I think everyone should have CSS. There is simply not a more consistent library out there. The legato is near perfection. If I could use only one library for the rest of my life it would be CSS. The only reason I could see anyone needing to get SCS is if you're really into that "spitfire sound" and don't like the tone of CSS.


How can not like this tone?


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## Dale Turner (Jul 21, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> I do really like how flexible they look in regards to the sections sizes and the fact that they are dry!! They have a nice classical tone to them. Do you know if they have the full legato patch (Kick-ass patch) in the first version of the Synchronized Dimensions vol 1?



Actually, because I've been out of it, LOL, I have no knowledge of how the Dimension Strings migrated over to the Synchronized versions... I only know that when they were initially marketed, they had a "starter" version, and you could upgrade to the "full" version, which I eventually did. Their website is pretty thorough though, at showing the exact contents of what's contained within each Library, even if it's the basic version... Often cross-referencing or comparing the two. (UPDATE: See Ben's post above!!)

For what it's worth, I got these WAY cheaper through BandHPhoto, or whatever that website is... and JRRshop?

(And just to be clear, the original DIMENSION strings LEGATO! It was just a specific type of legato patch only the "full" version had... I just can't recall its name.)


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## Dale Turner (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Do you mean that the latest Synchronized Dimension strings don't have legato?



Actually, because I've been out of it, LOL, I have no knowledge of how the Dimension Strings migrated over to the Synchronized versions... I only know that when they were initially marketed, they had a "starter" version, and you could upgrade to the "full" version, which I eventually did. Their website is pretty thorough though, at showing the exact contents of what's contained within each Library, even if it's the basic version... Often cross-referencing or comparing the two. (UPDATE: See Ben's post above!!)

For what it's worth, I got these WAY cheaper through BandHPhoto, or whatever that website is... and JRRshop?

(And just to be clear, the original DIMENSION strings LEGATO! It was just a specific type of legato patch only the "full" version had... I just can't recall its name.)


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## Rob (Jul 21, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> How can not like this tone?



kind of funny, but I can't help hearing a similarity of CSS with Kirk Hunter Concert Strings II, with this warm vibrato and enveloping sound...


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## gsilbers (Jul 21, 2020)

man, we'll need a sticky for all of these new library abbreviations


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## Kevperry777 (Jul 21, 2020)

purple said:


> I think everyone should have CSS. There is simply not a more consistent library out there. The legato is near perfection. If I could use only one library for the rest of my life it would be CSS. The only reason I could see anyone needing to get SCS is if you're really into that "spitfire sound" and don't like the tone of CSS.




My first string library was CSS. The tone is like warm milk....so smooth and so well executed. With the help of this forum (and many videos watched) I just purchased SCS. Really satisfying...it does not disappoint in light of the widespread praise it receives. For me, it really does fit a tone in my head I wanted to hear and work with. More bite....punchier....less "fur" than CSS. 2 really different paint brushes I'm glad to have.


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## gohrev (Jul 21, 2020)

My take on SStS: 
Bad legatos, nice longs. Beautiful harmonic, sul pont, sul tasto… The 6 microphones in Pro are awesome, especially the close-up ones. Strong sound, even a bit nasal. Makes for a fine layering library.

As for CSS:
Unparalleled legatos. Warm, lush sound. CC1 (mod) from zero to fortissimo, which is very nice. My workhorse nowadays. I barely use SStS anymore.


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

Kevperry777 said:


> My first string library was CSS. The tone is like warm milk....so smooth and so well executed. With the help of this forum (and many videos watched) I just purchased SCS. Really satisfying...it does not disappoint in light of the widespread praise it receives. For me, it really does fit a tone in my head I wanted to hear and work with. More bite....punchier....less "fur" than CSS. 2 really different paint brushes I'm glad to have.



I've just purchased it as well. Only just downloaded it


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

What version is SCS on? The Spitfire app seems to be showing a different version to what's showing on the Interface. Its saying its on instrument version 1.2 and interface says version v2.11.37. Is this correct?


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## Marsen (Jul 21, 2020)

berlin87 said:


> My take on SStS:
> Bad legatos, nice longs.



I think, the SStS Legatos are wonderful.
But anyway, I respect different opinions.

It may depends on the track. I haven't used them on faster passages yet.


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## Scamper (Jul 21, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> What version is SCS on? The Spitfire app seems to be showing a different version to what's showing on the Interface. Its saying its on instrument version 1.2 and interface says version v2.11.37. Is this correct?



Where do you see those numbers?
SCS should be on 1.3.2 right now.


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

Scamper said:


> Where do you see those numbers?
> SCS should be on 1.3.2 right now.



I'm probably looking in wrong places. In the Spitfire app it show 1.3.2 but I was looking at the instrument version that are showing in the patches here, shows instrument version 1.2 on the bottom right:


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

Ok their seems to be something wrong. I wondered regarding the version because I appeared to have issues with the legato now this is happening:


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

Not having the best start with it  I have hardly played anything yet.


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## Scamper (Jul 21, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> I'm probably looking in wrong places. In the Spitfire app it show 1.3.2 but I was looking at the instrument version that are showing in the patches here, shows instrument version 1.2 on the bottom right:



Oh, I see. It's the same for me on the legato performance patch.
The Interface is referring to the engine, that Spitfire is using in Kontakt for all/most libraries, as you can also see in the instrument options. My guess is, that they just didn't update the instrument version on the instrument layout.




This interface bug happens at times, but you can fix it by restarting the Kontakt engine (clicking on the exclamation mark on the top right).


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

Scamper said:


> Oh, I see. It's the same for me on the legato performance patch.
> The Interface is referring to the engine, that Spitfire is using in Kontakt for all/most libraries, as you can also see in the instrument options. My guess is, that they just didn't update the instrument version on the instrument layout.
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for that, mines showing all the same so I'm obviously all fine in regards to the version it's on. It seems to be working all ok now. Sounds like that interface thing was just one of those bugs that happen every now and then. Not had it before but it seems to be working all ok now


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Anyone know what the SCS update is for? I also have one for my studio winds.


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Ben said:


> Of course, the SYNCHRON-ized Dimension Strings have legatos, wouldn't be VSL if they didn't have them
> The SYNCHRON-ized have all articulations, including the Full Library ones.
> 
> The SE Dimension Strings have less articulations, but include con sordino.
> ...


So the basic difference between the SE and full are the articulations? Is the sordino real or modeled?


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## Ben (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> So the basic difference between the SE and full are the articulations? Is the sordino real or modeled?


Articulation count (not 100% sure, but I think less repetitions / layers). You can see the articulation differences in the links I've posted.
Sordinos are real of course, would not make sense to additionally sell modeled once...


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## Zanshin (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> So the basic difference between the SE and full are the articulations? Is the sordino real or modeled?




And when is the next sale


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## Ben (Jul 21, 2020)

Here is a nice short behind-the-scenes of the Dimension Strings II recordings: https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Backstage_Stories/Episode_05



Zanshin said:


> And when is the next sale


We'll see


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Ben said:


> Articulation count (not 100% sure, but I think less repetitions / layers). You can see the articulation differences in the links I've posted.
> Sordinos are real of course, would not make sense to additionally sell modeled once...


Sorry..many developers have emulated sordino. Last question, is the sforzando real? Synchron Strings is modeled...so are Dimension strings all actual recorded arts? I think it would be a good addition to my SY 1 to just get the SE version.


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## Dale Turner (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Sorry..many developers have emulated sordino. Last question, is the sforzando real? Synchron Strings is modeled...so are Dimension strings all actual recorded arts? I think it would be a good addition to my SY 1 to just get the SE version.



Seem to be the most meticulously recorded strings in the history of sampling (articulations wise). But Ben will obviously know all deets!


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## Ben (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Sorry..many developers have emulated sordino.


You can kinda emulate it in our players as well, if you use the right filter settings in the player (settings no. 9-12 in the second screenshot, CC 24 controls the amount):




__





Perform Tab | VSL - Software Manuals







www.vsl.info





Still, real con sordino recordings have a different quality and sound more intimite and emotional. This can't be emulated.



jaketanner said:


> Last question, is the sforzando real?


Yes, all articulations are real recordings. The entire Dimension Strings Bundle consist of 1.2 milion samples, recorded over several years, to give you full control over the expression of each single string instrument player - playing together.


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Ben said:


> Still, real con sordino recordings have a different quality and sound more intimite and emotional. This can't be emulated.


ok...and emulated NEVER sounds right to me, so I don't bother using it..so that's good at least.. LOL


Ben said:


> Yes, all articulations are real recordings. The entire Dimension Strings Bundle consist of 1.2 milion samples, recorded over several years, to give you full control over the expression of each single string instrument player - playing together.


AWESOME! Thanks.


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## jbuhler (Jul 21, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Ok their seems to be something wrong. I wondered regarding the version because I appeared to have issues with the legato now this is happening:


Yes, that’s a fun bug. I’ve been getting versions of it for years. Usually it will go away if you reload the patch, though they may have introduced a new version of it in the recent update. I haven’t yet worked with SCS since that update. 

I find the performance legato patch generally works better.


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Dale Turner said:


> Seem to be the most meticulously recorded strings in the history of sampling (articulations wise). But Ben will obviously know all deets!


yeah, after having a second listen to even the SE versions, they sound really nice...lots of options, and together with the Synchron Strings, I think should be enough to cover quite a bit. I can easily make custom patches with Dimension as the first chairs.

Although I am uncertain about mic positions...hope that's not an issue when combining libraries.


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, that’s a fun bug. I’ve been getting versions of it for years. Usually it will go away if you reload the patch, though they may have introduced a new version of it in the recent update. I haven’t yet worked with SCS since that update.
> 
> I find the performance legato patch generally works better.



Just having more of a play with it now. I really like it. I'm finding the legatos are better than BBCSO legatos they respond better to faster playing and are much better for runs as well. It has quite a lot more bite to it and does sound more detailed due to the smaller section size. Really like the short notes.

On first impressions the legato performance patches seem to be reacting and performing better than the performance legato here.


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## Ben (Jul 21, 2020)

Dale Turner said:


> Seem to be the most meticulously recorded strings in the history of sampling (articulations wise). But Ben will obviously know all deets!


I have great colleagues that I can ask in case I don't know a specific detail 
But yes, these are were sampled with such care and detail, resulting in these beautiful libraries that can do magic if you know how to use them. I think our Solo Violin I has even more articulations, but yes, you can do almost everything with these.

One last hint regarding the filter functionality: You can use it to dampen the high frequencies a little bit during high passages, if the strings sound too bright, by just decreasing CC24 a little bit (not only Dimension Strings, but all our strings)


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Ben said:


> I have great colleagues that I can ask in case I don't know a specific detail
> But yes, these are were sampled with such care and detail, resulting in these beautiful libraries that can do magic if you know how to use them. I think our Solo Violin I has even more articulations, but yes, you can do almost everything with these.
> 
> One last hint regarding the filter functionality: You can use it to dampen the high frequencies a little bit during high passages, if the strings sound too bright, by just decreasing CC24 a little bit (not only Dimension Strings, but all our strings)


I haven't been able to find the mic positions for Dimension SE Synchronized version...is there only one mic? If so, which one, and how well will it blend with SY 1? Sorry, looked at the link you sent as well as the walkthrough, but didn't see it.


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## Ben (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I haven't been able to find the mic positions for Dimension SE Synchronized version...is there only one mic? If so, which one, and how well will it blend with SY 1? Sorry, looked at the link you sent as well as the walkthrough, but didn't see it.


The Dimension Strings were recorded in our Silent Stage. The string instruments were recorded playing together at the same time to get a string section sound instead of many solo strings.

The SYNCHRON-ized ones were matched to our Synchron Series by adding panning and reverb (which can be disabled as usual). So you are good to go by just loading the preset and choosing a mixer preset.


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Ben said:


> The Dimension Strings were recorded in our Silent Stage. The string instruments were recorded playing together at the same time to get a string section sound instead of many solo strings.
> 
> The SYNCHRON-ized ones were matched to our Synchron Series by adding panning and reverb (which can be disabled as usual). So you are good to go by just loading the preset and choosing a mixer preset.


that I got, but in terms of selecting mic positions of the players...or were they all "close" mic'd? I thought I read there are presets for different mics, but is it possible to create a custom mic mix? Say desk 1 close mic, desk 2 Decca and 3 yet another preset then layer them? This isn't apparent in any of the walkthroughs or in that description. And again as always, thanks for taking the time to answer these questions...makes a world of difference.


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## Ben (Jul 21, 2020)

You get only control of one channel per instrument. I don't know how they were sampled/recorded, and if I'm not mistaken it is part of our secret sauce - so even if I knew I could not tell


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Ben said:


> You get only control of one channel per instrument. I don't know how they were sampled/recorded, and if I'm not mistaken it is part of our secret sauce - so even if I knew I could not tell


understood. Well certainly worth looking at as an addition along with Synchronized winds and I'll be set  Of course I'd love the perc but out of reach for now.


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## jbuhler (Jul 21, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Just having more of a play with it now. I really like it. I'm finding the legatos are better than BBCSO legatos they respond better to faster playing and are much better for runs as well. It has quite a lot more bite to it and does sound more detailed due to the smaller section size. Really like the short notes.
> 
> On first impressions the legato performance patches seem to be reacting and performing better than the performance legato here.


Performance legato has the shorts overlay so if you want soft attack on initial note you need to use very low velocity otherwise you’ll get a spiccato or staccato at the note start. But you can also shift to shorts in the phrase and so can play lines with mixed articulations. In general I prefer performance legato but there are indeed times when legato performance works better.

ETA: velocity of a note in legato will select legato type not short overlay and it took me a while to get the hang of starting a legato phrase with the right velocity for the initial attack and then immediately changing so I was selecting the right legato transition.


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Performance legato has the shorts overlay so if you want soft attack on initial note you need to use very low velocity otherwise you’ll get a spiccato or staccato at the note start. But you can also shift to shorts in the phrase and so can play lines with mixed articulations. In general I prefer performance legato but there are indeed times when legato performance works better.



I probably just need to play with it some more. It is nice to have the spic and stac overlay, ones in BBCSO also have this. Nice to have the choice between the different legatos SCS.


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## omc_29 (Jul 21, 2020)

I can see what everyone was saying in regards to them sounding very different than the BBCSO. They do have a completely different tone but are quite clean sounding with nice clarity, which I really like. It has great shorts, not bad legato and a lot of articulations!! I think i'll probably end up using SCS for some pieces as my main strings and it is also nice to have that smaller ensemble size so I do think this was quite a nice edition to get in the end and it seems to layer quite nicely with the BBCSO. Also, last night Symphonic motions may have accidently slipped into my cart so I've also got to give that a try in a bit


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## jbuhler (Jul 21, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> I can see what everyone was saying in regards to them sounding very different than the BBCSO. They do have a completely different tone but are quite clean sounding with nice clarity, which I really like. It has great shorts, not bad legato and a lot of articulations!! I think i'll probably end up using SCS for some pieces as my main strings and it is also nice to have that smaller ensemble size so I do think this was quite a nice edition to get in the end and it seems to layer quite nicely with the BBCSO. Also, last night Symphonic motions may have accidently slipped into my cart so I've also got to give that a try in a bit


SF libraries are sneaky that way, slipping into carts. Gotta be careful!

I’ll be curious to see whether you find SCS can be used as divisi for BBCSO when layered with it for the tutti. I use SCS that way with SSS.


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## Dale Turner (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> that I got, but in terms of selecting mic positions of the players...or were they all "close" mic'd? I thought I read there are presets for different mics, but is it possible to create a custom mic mix? Say desk 1 close mic, desk 2 Decca and 3 yet another preset then layer them? This isn't apparent in any of the walkthroughs or in that description. And again as always, thanks for taking the time to answer these questions...makes a world of difference.



No room tone whatsoever, pretty much due to their "silent stage," which makes them super versatile with MiR (their own version of Alitiverb-type room convolution), or (it seems) the "Synchronized" versions (or your own personal IR/Convo 'verb approach). I don't recall any "mic position choice" stuff at all (for me, it's been "set and forget"... but I recall none). All pretty dang close mic'ed, though you can--just enough--hear bleed from other players (a good thing) if you isolate a single player... the bleed adding realism, of course, but with loads of control.


----------



## holywilly (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Sorry..many developers have emulated sordino. Last question, is the sforzando real? Synchron Strings is modeled...so are Dimension strings all actual recorded arts? I think it would be a good addition to my SY 1 to just get the SE version.


DS has the best recorded articulations, like Sfz, spiccato, staccato...etc., and legato "expressive"! I love writing with DS because it just sounds right!


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Dale Turner said:


> No room tone whatsoever, pretty much due to their "silent stage," which makes them super versatile with MiR (their own version of Alitiverb-type room convolution), or (it seems) the "Synchronized" versions (or your own personal IR/Convo 'verb approach). I don't recall any "mic position choice" stuff at all (for me, it's been "set and forget"... but I recall none). All pretty dang close mic'ed, though you can--just enough--hear bleed from other players (a good thing) if you isolate a single player... the bleed adding realism, of course, but with loads of control.


Are they recorded centered position and you pan within the player? or is there a discernible pan?


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Can anyone who has SE Synchronized dimension Strings tell me what the upgrade cost is to the full Dimension strings? Thanks. And also if you end up keeping both versions. Thanks.


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## Casiquire (Jul 21, 2020)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> On programming realistic strings, also consider which libraries are capable of _sul_ C/G/D/A/etc.
> 
> Each string has a different tone color, and being able to have control over that color is very useful.


Dimension strings! Hollywood Strings as well, any others?


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## Casiquire (Jul 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Can anyone who has SE Synchronized dimension Strings tell me what the upgrade cost is to the full Dimension strings? Thanks. And also if you end up keeping both versions. Thanks.


There's an easy way to see this kind of thing! Put an item in your cart. VSL's site will update other prices to reflect their cost as if you own what's in your cart


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> There's an easy way to see this kind of thing! Put an item in your cart. VSL's site will update other prices to reflect their cost as if you own what's in your cart


you mean put SE dimension in the cart, then also add the full dimension?


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

Casiquire said:


> There's an easy way to see this kind of thing! Put an item in your cart. VSL's site will update other prices to reflect their cost as if you own what's in your cart


I just did that...while there is a slight discount, it can no way be the right upgrade price. It's only a savings of around $125...seems really low considering. Unless there is a benefit to having both installed? Guess it's more of a cross grade than un upgrade since there are differences and the con sord wouldn't be upgraded..only the regular strings. Then that would make getting the SE edition a total waste of money IF I was planning on upgrading. It's a little over $1k for the full Dimension Strings, but if I went SE dimension and then dimension 1, it's also over $1k...oh well...guess I will skip it.


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## holywilly (Jul 21, 2020)

Wait for the 40% off for the Strings


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## jaketanner (Jul 21, 2020)

holywilly said:


> Wait for the 40% off for the Strings


When does that usually happen?


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## gohrev (Jul 22, 2020)

Marsen said:


> I think, the SStS Legatos are wonderful.
> But anyway, I respect different opinions.
> 
> It may depends on the track. I haven't used them on faster passages yet.



I can't put my finger on it, to be honest, and god knows I tried and tried!  
But there was something about the legatos that just didn't sound right. It didn't 'flow' as good as, for example, CSS. 

The thing is, I immediately fell in love with the concept behind SStS: You can create an enormous string orchestra, with a very lush but crisp sound — or you can go really intimate, using the divisi instruments + close-up mics.


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## gohrev (Jul 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> When does that usually happen?


I would say Black Friday / Cyber Monday — end of November?


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## jaketanner (Jul 22, 2020)

berlin87 said:


> I would say Black Friday / Cyber Monday — end of November?


lets see if I can hold off that long..doubt it though.. LOL


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## jaketanner (Jul 22, 2020)

berlin87 said:


> I can't put my finger on it, to be honest, and god knows I tried and tried!
> But there was something about the legatos that just didn't sound right.


I'll tell you exactly what it is...it's choppy especially when you perform the lines. the transitions from note to note vary slightly in attack..that's why it's not smooth. However, make sure 100% that you are overlapping notes quite a bit...this helps for sure, especially in SF. So do not take your finger off a note to start another one...that's when it's very noticeable. If you do, make sure the dynamics is also at the mid way point or lower.this library doesn't really like the high dynamics I found. So if you are playing it live, it may seem a bit more choppy...but after it's recorded, adjust the transitions so they overlap by a good amount...should be smoother.


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## gohrev (Jul 22, 2020)

@jaketanner you are spot on re: high dynamics. This library shines in the lower range. At times very sultry!

As for the overlap: Yes, about 1/32 overlap does seem to fix things up a bit – but only a bit. The choppiness never really goes away, some notes have a very strange attack. I noticed Violin 2 sounded a lot better when I capped its velocity at 9 (yes, only 9!) in the Expression Map.

There are lots of different ways to improve the sound. But then I turn around and think: In CSS I just hit the keys and play sweet, sweet melodies…


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## ptram (Jul 22, 2020)

Ben said:


> Here is a nice short behind-the-scenes of the Dimension Strings II recordings: https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Backstage_Stories/Episode_05


So, the background noise is not the bows scratching the strings, but people munching wafers???

Paolo


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## Ben (Jul 22, 2020)

ptram said:


> So, the background noise is not the bows scratching the strings, but people munching wafers???


Food in Vienna is so delicious!

Regarding noises: You will find 2 additional "FX" patches for each player in the Dimension Strings I library.
These have fingernoises for each player and different kind of ambient noises (turning paper, handling instrument...). These are not used in the default presets, so you have to look for them in the Patch Browser.


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## Dale Turner (Jul 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Are they recorded centered position and you pan within the player? or is there a discernible pan?



Yeah, you pan within the player (wither within MIR, within Vienna Ensemble, or... I think the way individual payers are grouped WITHIN a Vienna Instruments Player PRO patch, inside there)
I do it all within MiR, fwiw.


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## Dale Turner (Jul 22, 2020)

holywilly said:


> DS has the best recorded articulations, like Sfz, spiccato, staccato...etc., and legato "expressive"! I love writing with DS because it just sounds right!



And their PORTAMENTOs absolutely RULE!


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 22, 2020)

Dale Turner said:


> Yeah, you pan within the player (wither within MIR, within Vienna Ensemble, or... I think the way individual payers are grouped WITHIN a Vienna Instruments Player PRO patch, inside there)
> I do it all within MiR, fwiw.


I do't have MIR, so would be just the player. Thanks for the info.


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## omc_29 (Jul 24, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> SF libraries are sneaky that way, slipping into carts. Gotta be careful!
> 
> I’ll be curious to see whether you find SCS can be used as divisi for BBCSO when layered with it for the tutti. I use SCS that way with SSS.




Yeah they can be! but I'm pretty broke now so need to save some more before considering getting anything else!

I've had some chance to use SCS now. I really like it. I much prefer the legatos in SCS to the ones in BBCSO they are much more playable!! Having the fast and runs legato makes a difference, even the standard normal legatos in the main patches seem to react well enough. Also, I've noticed that the legatos seems to react a better with the close mics turned up and are a little less consistent using more of the tree mics, not sure if you also experience this? I have also noticed the intonation issues. On the whole its not too bad but at times it is noticeable but I suppose it can add some realism and is less noticeable in a full track. The only time when it could be a slight issue is during a really exposed line. On the whole i've not been too bothered by this.

I haven't yet tried to use SCS as a Divisi section for the BBCSO, but I think it should work quite nicely. I may even supplement/replace main melodic legato lines using SCS in place of BBCSO and see how that works as I do prefer using SCS legatos over BBCSOs. Faster legato lines and runs seem to be easier to do with SCS.

I have used BBCSO woodwinds with SCS and they seem to mix really well together. I think their is going to be times when I might just use the SCS in place of the BBCSO strings. Even though I really love the tone and sound of the BBCSO strings when it comes to the legatos and playability, SCS is better.


----------



## Zanshin (Jul 24, 2020)

I'm happy it worked out!


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 24, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Even though I really love the tone and sound of the BBCSO strings when it comes to the legatos and playability, SCS is better.


What other libraries aside form these two do you have? I find it hard to believe that their newest, latest techniques library is inferior to SCS in terms of legato...it's not a good sign to be going backwards, rather than moving forwards.


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## jaketanner (Jul 24, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> I much prefer the legatos in SCS to the ones in BBCSO


Have you tried ALL versions of legato in SCS...there are at least 3-4 patches...do you feel that one legato patch is smoother than the other, or all equal? Performance Legato, legato Performance, the main legato patch and the individual ones...wondering if there are slight differences between them.


----------



## omc_29 (Jul 24, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> What other libraries aside form these two do you have? I find it hard to believe that their newest, latest techniques library is inferior to SCS in terms of legato...it's not a good sign to be going backwards, rather than moving forwards.



I also have EWHS Diamond. I also like the legatos in EWHS. I certainly feel that the BBCSO legato are inferior to the legato in SCS. Especially in regards to it's playability. If you try and play a fast run using BBCSO legato it doesn't sound great. SCS legatos just seem to work better in my view.


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 24, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> I also have EWHS Diamond. I also like the legatos in EWHS. I certainly feel that the BBCSO legato are inferior to the legato in SCS. Especially in regards to it's playability. If you try and play a fast run using BBCSO legato it doesn't sound great. SCS legatos just seem to work better in my view.


Does BBCSO have the SF "performance legato" patch? Those were specifically made for fast runs in SCS...not sure BBC has that. Maybe they can add it as it's just part of the scripting. The SCS had that patch added after that fact...so I am sure it's possible with BBC as well... one day


----------



## omc_29 (Jul 24, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Have you tried ALL versions of legato in SCS...there are at least 3-4 patches...do you feel that one legato patch is smoother than the other, or all equal? Performance Legato, legato Performance, the main legato patch and the individual ones...wondering if there are slight differences between them.



Yeah I've tried all version in SCS. I like the Legato performance patch and the normal legato in the main patches work pretty well, ill probably end up using these the most! The performance legato is also quite good for just playing in lines as it has the stac/spic overlays so you can also play shorts which can be useful.


----------



## omc_29 (Jul 24, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Does BBCSO have the SF "performance legato" patch? Those were specifically made for fast runs in SCS...not sure BBC has that. Maybe they can add it as it's just part of the scripting. The SCS had that patch added after that fact...so I am sure it's possible with BBC as well... one day



BBCSO has a form of performance legato, in which their is spic overlays so can also play short notes I believe it also has portamento and slur legato but has no fast and runs legato.

That would be lovely if they added that to BBCSO. I really hope they do, however I dont think they will as it would require more recording. I think for SCS actual runs and fast legato transition were recorded. In BBCSO they didnt record any fast or run transitions.


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## jaketanner (Jul 24, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> Yeah I've tried all version in SCS. I like the Legato performance patch and the normal legato in the main patches work pretty well, ill probably end up using these the most! The performance legato is also quite good for just playing in lines as it has the stac/spic overlays so you can also play shorts which can be useful.


I just tried the legato performance versus the performance legato...and there is a HUGE volume and fullness difference between the samples at the exact same dynamics. the Performance Legato seems. lot thinner...don't see how they will blend if it's the same samples.. hope it's not just me...maybe if you have time you can check? Seems like a huge difference.


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## omc_29 (Jul 24, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I just tried the legato performance versus the performance legato...and there is a HUGE volume and fullness difference between the samples at the exact same dynamics. the Performance Legato seems. lot thinner...don't see how they will blend if it's the same samples.. hope it's not just me...maybe if you have time you can check? Seems like a huge difference.



I'll check this out later once back at computer, not sure I've noticed this. However, I have mainly been using the legato performance and normal legato patches so far. Have not really used the performance legato patch that much.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Jul 24, 2020)

The difference between these patches is that* legato perfomance,* among other things, has access to the speed slider for legato, while* performance legato* does not. I use *performance legato* for fast and short lines(smart script with the introduction of staccato samples). *legato performance* for slow and lyrical lines while moving the speed slider for legato to slow. this creates some delay. but as with the *cinematic studio strings* library it makes them look more natural. Although, unfortunately, not as smooth as CSS/CSSS, and in places very steep and overly bumpy.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Jul 24, 2020)

Yes, one more point. *Legato performance* has more layers for vibrato just like individual legato patches, which I think is more important. This means they are sampled deeper. lol.


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## omc_29 (Jul 24, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Yes, one more point. *Legato performance* has more layers for vibrato just like individual legato patches, which I think is more important. This means they are sampled deeper. lol.



Yeah to me the legato performance patches can sound better than the performance legato patches. Especially for the more slower lines, but i've also found it not too bad for faster lines and runs. The performance legato is useful though for faster lines and for the shorts.

I haven't even tried the legato speed speed slider yet!! I didn't realise you had control over that in the Legato performance patches. You don't get that control in BBCSO.


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## jaketanner (Jul 24, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Yes, one more point. *Legato performance* has more layers for vibrato just like individual legato patches, which I think is more important. This means they are sampled deeper. lol.


Is that why it sounds fuller?


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Jul 24, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Is that why it sounds fuller?


I don't find such a strong advantage over simplified performance legato. Just the lack of a middle layer of vibrato and control over the speed of the legato in the main, among other things. lol.


----------



## jaketanner (Jul 24, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> I don't find such a strong advantage over simplified performance legato. Just the lack of a middle layer of vibrato and control over the speed of the legato in the main, among other things. lol.


the tone is very different between the two performance type legatos..it's just about night and say for me in terms of fullness..especially volume. Not sure why the volume has to be much lower for the Performance Legato. These are the little details that drive me nuts about SF...they really let the little things go by, buy those little things can become frustrating to us when we are using them in multiple tracks.


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## jaketanner (Jul 24, 2020)

ok..so between performance legato, legato performance and the regular default legato patch..there is a difference in the vibrato. For me, the two performance type legatos default with slider all the way up...regualr patch half way and sound a LOT better to me. Adjusting the sliders on the Performance legato is simply on/off, while the legato performance at half way is the same as the regular patch.. Hope you're following.. LOL. There is clearly a lack of consistence here. I think they need to go to the drawing board and just rework the entire library so that it's tuned, efficient, and level matched. Crazy making.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Jul 24, 2020)

Hey dude open your eyes, this is a spitfire! Conveyor in one word. They'd rather release a few more libraries before reworking the old one, it's more profitable. Primarily beneficial to them, not to us.


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## jaketanner (Jul 24, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Hey dude open your eyes, this is a spitfire! Conveyor in one word. They'd rather release a few more libraries before reworking the old one, it's more profitable. Primarily beneficial to them, not to us.


exactly my point the whole time.


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## filipjonathan (Jul 24, 2020)

omc_29 said:


> That's interesting. Ive read several posts from others that say the opposite, that SCS has good legato and that the SStS Pro legatos are not that good.
> 
> Why do you prefer the Legatos in SStS pro but not the ones in SCS?


That's exactly what I thought when I read his comment. Very strange.


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## borisb2 (Jul 28, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> How can not like this tone?



Do you have proof that this is CSS? .. this sounds awesome ..and a bit "too light" to come straight out of CSS


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## jaketanner (Jul 28, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> Do you have proof that this is CSS? .. this sounds awesome ..and a bit "too light" to come straight out of CSS


might be the solo strings. it's for a quartet.


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## ptram (Jul 29, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> Do you have proof that this is CSS? .. this sounds awesome ..and a bit "too light" to come straight out of CSS



This is incredibly realistic. I could believe it was performed by a real orchestra!

By reading the post where Max introduced it, it should be a layering of Cinematic Studio Strings, Cinematic Studio Solo Strings, Cinestrings Solo.

Paolo


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## hypnotize (Jul 29, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> Do you have proof that this is CSS? .. this sounds awesome ..and a bit "too light" to come straight out of CSS


Why not?

What do you think the library sounds like here?


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## ptram (Jul 29, 2020)

hypnotize said:


> What do you think the library sounds like here?


This one sounds like a much smaller ensemble, if not even a string quartet (sorry, I’m listening from an iPad with the painters working out of the window).

Paolo


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## hypnotize (Jul 29, 2020)

ptram said:


> This one sounds like a much smaller ensemble, if not even a string quartet (sorry, I’m listening from an iPad with the painters working out of the window).
> 
> Paolo


This is exactly the string quartet.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Jul 29, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> Do you have proof that this is CSS? .. this sounds awesome ..and a bit "too light" to come straight out of CSS



Yes of course.
This is an orchestral work by Max Liefkes. Here is a topic published here on this forum a little over a year ago. The author writes:
_Main Libraries used:

Cinematic Studio Strings
Cinematic Studio Solo Strings
Cinestrings Solo
Berlin Woodwinds
Berlin Brass
Metropolis 1 & 2 Choirs _






Orchestration and mockup of Ravel String Quartet


This is something I've been chipping away at for a while and I wanted to share it with this amazing community that has taught me so much! The main excuse for doing this was to do a full test drive / stress test of a new orchestral template, but instead of doing a mockup of an existing...




vi-control.net


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## doctoremmet (Jul 29, 2020)

Scamper said:


> I'm not sure, if you still need it, but I made this short demo and decided to throw CSS into the mix as well.
> So, there is a short string snippet using the basic articulations and showing SCS (Close+Tree mics), CSS (mix mics) and BBCSO on their own and all possible combinations.
> 
> 
> ...



Wow. It’s posts like yours that make this forum truly one of the coolest, nicest, most informative, helpful resources of the entire internet. Such a nice thing to do for a fellow musician! You guys have been able to somehow restore my faith in humanity. Sorry for the slightly dramatic contribution haha, but I have been very ill for a year to the day, and been confined to my house for almost five months now. And this forum has helped me tremendously with coping with all the BS. And this is just such a nice post, I felt like thanking you guys. Proceed talking about strings now haha!


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## borisb2 (Jul 29, 2020)

wow, I'm impressed.. CSS/CSSS really excels in that piece



hypnotize said:


> What do you think the library sounds like here?


sounds great, lots of bite - is that CSSS as well?


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## hypnotize (Jul 29, 2020)

borisb2 said:


> sounds great, lots of bite - is that CSSS as well?


Yes.


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## Scamper (Jul 29, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> You guys have been able to somehow restore my faith in humanity. Sorry for the slightly dramatic contribution haha, but I have been very ill for a year to the day, and been confined to my house for almost five months now. And this forum has helped me tremendously with coping with all the BS. And this is just such a nice post, I felt like thanking you guys. Proceed talking about strings now haha!



I'm sorry to hear that, so all the best to you. You're also bringing a bunch of positivity and value here, that's enriching for this place.



Vladimir Bulaev said:


> This is an orchestral work by Max Liefkes. Here is a topic published here on this forum a little over a year ago. The author writes:



I didn't hear this before, but it's really an exceptional demo. Even layering multiple articulations from different libraries takes a lot of effort to get it right, but it works out very well. Cool for an in depth mockup, but sounds like too much work for your day to day demo.



Scamper said:


>




By the way, here is a small addition for this string comparison and the CSS example. I've EQ matched CSS with BBCSO and layered the CSS Basses below, so it should be a bit brighter and clearer with a more powerful bass.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 29, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Wow. It’s posts like yours that make this forum truly one of the coolest, nicest, most informative, helpful resources of the entire internet. Such a nice thing to do for a fellow musician! You guys have been able to somehow restore my faith in humanity.


This might be a place to mention that the rude and ignorant stuff you said to me, doctor emmet, which you have not apologized for, has made me less comfortable contributing to VI-C.

Edit: doctoremmet has since contacted me and we worked it out. 😎


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## doctoremmet (Jul 29, 2020)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> This might be a place to mention that the rude and ignorant stuff you said to me, doctor emmet, which you have not apologized for, has made me less comfortable contributing to VI-C.


Noted. Cool to share the entire DM conversation maybe, the one that you started because you felt the need to correct me on something innocent I said, which you misread. Or is it common practice to criticize people around here, taking the high ground, in public. Because if it is these kinds of personal attacks in public that would make you feel more comfortable, I’ll delete my account right this minute and be gone from this platform. So you can feel safe again. As a matter of fact, consider me gone. Thanks mate. I hope you enjoy it here better with me gone. Cheers.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 29, 2020)

@Land of Missing Parts Done. Enjoy your stay.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 29, 2020)

That escalated quickly.


----------



## dbudimir (Jul 29, 2020)

It sure did! I thought they were joking around.


----------



## Rob (Jul 29, 2020)

But why leave? Doc, come back and do as I do, just push the "ignore" button when you find people that you find incompatible with you.. you're a positive presence here...


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 29, 2020)

Let's just all get along  

We are a big family here at VI-Control, sometimes we have issues with each other's comments, but we always get back and give each other a big hug, and a smile, and enjoy making this forum a fun, and useful place for all.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 29, 2020)

I guess I was hoping for a more measured response, like "Sorry, I admit I messed up. Let's work this out..." 🤷‍♂️

I've never asked him to delete his account or even mentioned anything remotely to that effect. I'm as confused as other folks as to why he reacted like that.

Edit: doctoremmet has since contacted me and we worked it out. 😎


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## hypnotize (Jul 29, 2020)

Scamper said:


> By the way, here is a small addition for this string comparison and the CSS example. I've EQ matched CSS with BBCSO and layered the CSS Basses below, so it should be a bit brighter and clearer with a more powerful bass.


Sounds good, soft. There is also good string programming, dynamics is present, which is important.


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## hypnotize (Jul 29, 2020)

This is my version of CCS sound. But I had some problems with the brightness of the sound, I had to raise high, maybe that's why it turned out so bright on high


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## borisb2 (Jul 29, 2020)

I prefer listening to string examples in this thread.

Great work @hypnotize


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## GingerMaestro (Mar 5, 2021)

Scamper said:


> I'm not sure, if you still need it, but I made this short demo and decided to throw CSS into the mix as well.
> So, there is a short string snippet using the basic articulations and showing SCS (Close+Tree mics), CSS (mix mics) and BBCSO on their own and all possible combinations.
> 
> 
> ...



@Scamper been trawling around looking for some help on how to combine SCS and CSS...really loved your demo...I wondered if you might be able to share your eq settings and what processing/reverb etc you use to glue them together..

I‘m trying to mock up something with lots of runs in it right now. CSS isn’t agile enough to handle the runs. SCS can handle the runs, but obviously sounds thin in comparison...any advise on how to blend them (not just for runs) would be much appreciated...Thanks so much


----------



## jamessy (Mar 5, 2021)

These demos keep making me want to pick up CSS


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## Lazer42 (Mar 5, 2021)

I have also been eyeing CSS for a while, with all the demos (including the ones here) pointing the way. 

One thing that's holding me back is the fear that it will be too similar to something I already have - HWS. I know in some ways they're similar, and I've listened to countless demos and comparisons of the two, but there really is unfortunately no substitute for sitting down and messing around with it oneself. 

I know some of the other libraries here - which I have also been eyeing like SCS would produce a very different sound. The comparison with those is easy. For those who are familiar with both HWS and CSS, in what ways would you say they're similar? In what ways different?


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## Casiquire (Mar 5, 2021)

Lazer42 said:


> I have also been eyeing CSS for a while, with all the demos (including the ones here) pointing the way.
> 
> One thing that's holding me back is the fear that it will be too similar to something I already have - HWS. I know in some ways they're similar, and I've listened to countless demos and comparisons of the two, but there really is unfortunately no substitute for sitting down and messing around with it oneself.
> 
> I know some of the other libraries here - which I have also been eyeing like SCS would produce a very different sound. The comparison with those is easy. For those who are familiar with both HWS and CSS, in what ways would you say they're similar? In what ways different?


It's way easier to program in a line with HWS. The legato delay with CSS is intense and disappointing. It's hard to believe that the dev didn't just make a switch: the off position has no delay at all, and you can play your lines in with the correct tempo. Then the on switch delays the entire library by the same amount of ms, all you have to do is nudge the midi. Done. But there's nothing like that; you can use a Classic Legato patch which is not very delayed, or you can use the Standard which already has two inconsistent delay amounts, then you have Advanced legato which has multiple different delay amounts depending on your velocity. Even with the Standard legato it's quite difficult to play in a patch. Everything is incredibly inconsistent

Those are just initial impressions. I'm sure I'll learn to use it better over time but i don't believe there's any "getting the hang of" notes coming out at different times based on how hard i played a key.


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## John R Wilson (Mar 5, 2021)

Lazer42 said:


> I have also been eyeing CSS for a while, with all the demos (including the ones here) pointing the way.
> 
> One thing that's holding me back is the fear that it will be too similar to something I already have - HWS. I know in some ways they're similar, and I've listened to countless demos and comparisons of the two, but there really is unfortunately no substitute for sitting down and messing around with it oneself.
> 
> I know some of the other libraries here - which I have also been eyeing like SCS would produce a very different sound. The comparison with those is easy. For those who are familiar with both HWS and CSS, in what ways would you say they're similar? In what ways different?


I've always been on the fence regarding CSS. On one hand I really like the GUI, the simplicity of it, consistency between patches and of course the brilliant legatos. It's also nice to have a consistent selection of shorts controllable by mod wheel. However, I've always been a bit unsure regarding its tone and I don't really like the amount of delay that CSS has as I like to play in every part live.


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Mar 6, 2021)

GingerMaestro said:


> @Scamper been trawling around looking for some help on how to combine SCS and CSS...really loved your demo...I wondered if you might be able to share your eq settings and what processing/reverb etc you use to glue them together..
> 
> I‘m trying to mock up something with lots of runs in it right now. CSS isn’t agile enough to handle the runs. SCS can handle the runs, but obviously sounds thin in comparison...any advise on how to blend them (not just for runs) would be much appreciated...Thanks so much


It's my understanding that CSS will have an update which will improve runs. Look for their WW video to hear it. Seemed pretty convincing.


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## Akarin (Mar 6, 2021)

I have lots of strings libraries. My take is that VSL Synchron Strings Pro are the best match for BBCSO. Use BBCSO Mix 2 and SSP lush decca preset. They blend very well.


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## Scamper (Mar 6, 2021)

GingerMaestro said:


> @Scamper been trawling around looking for some help on how to combine SCS and CSS...really loved your demo...I wondered if you might be able to share your eq settings and what processing/reverb etc you use to glue them together..
> 
> I‘m trying to mock up something with lots of runs in it right now. CSS isn’t agile enough to handle the runs. SCS can handle the runs, but obviously sounds thin in comparison...any advise on how to blend them (not just for runs) would be much appreciated...Thanks so much


I'm afraid I can't help you that much with it.

In the soundcloud example, when I layered SCS and CSS, I didn't use any processing and no additional reverb. It's just SCS with Close+Tree mics and CSS with the mix mics. 
Usually, I would add a bit of reverb to CSS though to bring it closer to the sound of SCS. It's probably not perfect, but I use around 1.6-1.8s decay and about 30-40% wet mix.

I think it depends, if you want to get closer to the room sound of SCS or CSS. So for the larger sound, you can use more reverb for CSS and for the smaller scaled sound of CSS less reverb and less of the SCS tree mics.

True, SCS can deal with the runs a lot better. For CSS the Marcato articulation without spiccato overlay does work pretty well though, but you can't control the dynamics that well. Hopefully the new runs update will fix that.


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## Akarin (Mar 6, 2021)

Scamper said:


> I'm afraid I can't help you that much with it.
> 
> In the soundcloud example, when I layered SCS and CSS, I didn't use any processing and no additional reverb. It's just SCS with Close+Tree mics and CSS with the mix mics.
> Usually, I would add a bit of reverb to CSS though to bring it closer to the sound of SCS. It's probably not perfect, but I use around 1.6-1.8s decay and about 30-40% wet mix.
> ...



This is CSS with SCS. I've removed the room mic in CSS and used Spaces 2 on it with a small church preset to bring it closer to SCS:






SoundCloud - Hear the world’s sounds


Explore the largest community of artists, bands, podcasters and creators of music & audio




soundcloud.app.goo.gl


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## jamessy (Mar 6, 2021)

Any thoughts on how these string libraries blend with Vista or Con Moto? The latter is on sale and I'm considering it. Or if anyone would be willing to share their favorite blends in general. After hearing these I feel reassured that picking up CSS next time it's on sale will be a good move


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## Obi-Wan Spaghetti (Mar 6, 2021)

jamessy said:


> Any thoughts on how these string libraries blend with Vista or Con Moto? The latter is on sale and I'm considering it. Or if anyone would be willing to share their favorite blends in general. After hearing these I feel reassured that picking up CSS next time it's on sale will be a good move


Did you know PS is coming with a new library at the end of the year? Might want to wait for that.


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## GingerMaestro (Mar 6, 2021)

Scamper said:


> I'm afraid I can't help you that much with it.
> 
> In the soundcloud example, when I layered SCS and CSS, I didn't use any processing and no additional reverb. It's just SCS with Close+Tree mics and CSS with the mix mics.
> Usually, I would add a bit of reverb to CSS though to bring it closer to the sound of SCS. It's probably not perfect, but I use around 1.6-1.8s decay and about 30-40% wet mix.
> ...


Thanks so much, this is actually very helpful...I think I may have figured out a blend with SStS, which is pretty vanilla, so kind of works with SCS runs. I’m hoping my mix engineer guy can glue it all together...Thank you


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## JonS (Mar 6, 2021)

omc_29 said:


> So out of these choices which would you go for if you could choose only one? I've been looking for a good core string library that I can use to supplement with the BBCSO Strings. I find some things can be a bit lacking with the BBCSO strings in particular faster legato lines and runs. I've pretty much got it down to these four choices. I'm leaning towards CSS or SCS at the moment as I have read that the SStS legatos are a bit lacking in the spitfire studio series. The VSL dimension strings also looks good but its more expensive.


I have BBCSO Pro, CSS, SCS Pro and SStS Pro. I like them all and I don't think anyone can really go wrong with any of them. I also have VSL Synchron Strings Pro and Synchron Strings I, which are also both excellent. So many great choices available these days, I doubt anyone will really go wrong choosing any of these libraries. HZS is another really good one and so is SSS too. Between CSS and SCS, go with CSS for the legato or SCS if you are looking for more articulations and a smaller chamber section sound.


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