# Need Mac Upgrade Advice



## Fox (Aug 29, 2020)

Looking to buy my next music computer and would love your thoughts, tips, ideas, and recommendations. I’d like to purchase something in the next 3-5 months, and I want to stay in the Apple ecosystem (Logic is my main DAW). I’ve done lots of searching and reading here (and elsewhere), but I still am quite confused.

My current computer is a MPB mid-2015 (see details in my signature). I got this at the time because it was plenty powerful and also portable. I no longer need the portability (I’ll be keeping the MPB for that), and as I’ve started delving deeper and deeper into orchestral VIs (coming from a singer-songwriter, rock-band background) my MBP just can’t run enough VI tracks.

I’d like to spend around $2,000 on something that will last me another 4 years. I’m thinking that RAM is my biggest bottleneck, and I imagine 64GB would be plenty, and more than that would be heavenly.

Some of the thoughts I’m having (and further wants/limitations of my set up)

I’m confused by all the options of Macs: Mac Mini vs iMac Pro vs Mac Pro. But of these, the Mac Pro seems the most flexible and powerful option and the 2013 or later model seems best because I’d like to use Catalina (right now I’ve stayed on Mojave on my MBP). The issue here is just finding a used model that isn’t too expensive.
I don’t want to do the Hackintosh route because I fear it would send me down tons of rabbit holes, and I don’t need more distractions that keep me away from the limited time I have to write, record, and produce music.
I will continue using my Focusrite clarett-8-pre, which simply means I need a Thunderbolt 2 port, if that matters.
Possibly I could buy a PC or Apple slave, but that seems too tedious for my needs. I'd prefer a single computer DAW setup for now, and maybe later I would expanded as and if needed.

Many thanks for your help!


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## yiph2 (Aug 29, 2020)

Did you check the Apple website? The cheapest Mac Pro is $6000... (unless you are buying second hand)
You might want to check the new iMac Apple released recently


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## Fox (Aug 29, 2020)

Of course! Secondhand will definitely be my path!


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## Pier (Aug 29, 2020)

In terms of performance and budget the Mini seems right up your alley. You can upgrade the RAM yourself if you're not afraid of opening it up.

There have been some reports of people getting performance issues with logic on 4K monitors. Other people say it's fine. The solution is either moving to 1080p or using an eGPU. There have been reports with bluetooth and Wifi issues too. Not sure if that happens on the 2020 models too.

The iMac would be more expensive but doesn't suffer from any of those issues. It does suffer from the fundamental problems of an AIO design (cooling, dust, etc).

IMO it wouldn't be a great idea to buy a used trashcan unless it was a really good deal. You won't get much of a performance increase compared to a new Mini or iMac, and you'd be investing in a ticking time bomb.


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## nolotrippen (Aug 29, 2020)

Pier said:


> In terms of performance and budget the Mini seems right up your alley. You can upgrade the RAM yourself if you're not afraid of opening it up.
> 
> There have been some reports of people getting performance issues with logic on 4K monitors. Other people say it's fine. The solution is either moving to 1080p or using an eGPU. There have been reports with bluetooth and Wifi issues too. Not sure if that happens on the 2020 models too.
> 
> ...


I second the iMac. As for cooling, I live in the San Fernando valley (107 yesterday) and whatever Apple did to the new iMacs keeps mine puttering along fine without getting hot. Heck, it doesn't even get warm.


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## Rory (Aug 29, 2020)

Fox said:


> I will continue using my Focusrite clarett-8-pre, which simply means I need a Thunderbolt 2 port, if that matters.




The new Macs use USB-C ports. For one of those, you’ll need Apple’s own adapter. See this thread: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/thunderbolt-2-to-thunderbolt-3-usb-c-adaptor.97004/


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## Kent (Aug 29, 2020)

My _Hackintosh _has been basically plug-n-play, with the few issues I've experienced more freak accidents (like a CPU cooler that was D.O.A.) than anything endemic to the format.

Hackintoshing is nowhere near as fiddly as it used to be!


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## Marsen (Aug 29, 2020)

nolotrippen said:


> I second the iMac. As for cooling, I live in the San Fernando valley (107 yesterday) and whatever Apple did to the new iMacs keeps mine puttering along fine without getting hot. Heck, it doesn't even get warm.




You mean the 2020 model? And if so, i7 or i9?


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## nolotrippen (Aug 29, 2020)

Marsen said:


> You mean the 2020 model? And if so, i7 or i9?


Mine's a 2019 i5 3.8 w/64 gb


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## Marsen (Aug 29, 2020)

Ah, thanks


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## SGordB (Aug 29, 2020)

I'm also in Mac upgrade mode (have been since the spring) and was all set to move on up to a 2019 or 2020 27" iMac (current: 2014 5K i7, maxxed out RAM) until Apple Silicon threw a wrench into my plans. My thesis is that AS will allow Macs to finally break out of their single-core performance doldrums (thanks to Intel), debuting within a year with Geekbench 5 scores closer to 2000+ than the current 1200-1300 peaks (my back-of-napkin Exhibit A below). In the meantime, to relieve my GAS I bought a 1TB PCIe SSD last week, put it in an enclosure, and am now running my Mac off of it instead of the internal fusion drive. But the Mac's single-core performance still can't keep up with my piano playing, despite having a 4 GHz CPU (turbo: 4.4) with a Geekbench single-core score north of 1000. 

Good luck, whatever your decision.


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## Pier (Aug 29, 2020)

SGordB said:


> I'm also in Mac upgrade mode (have been since the spring) and was all set to move on up to a 2019 or 2020 27" iMac (current: 2014 5K i7, maxxed out RAM) until Apple Silicon threw a wrench into my plans. My thesis is that AS will allow Macs to finally break out of their single-core performance doldrums (thanks to Intel), debuting within a year with Geekbench 5 scores closer to 2000+ than the current 1200-1300 peaks (my back-of-napkin Exhibit A below). In the meantime, to relieve my GAS I bought a 1TB PCIe SSD last week, put it in an enclosure, and am now running my Mac off of it instead of the internal fusion drive. But the Mac's single-core performance still can't keep up with my piano playing, despite having a 4 GHz CPU (turbo: 4.4) with a Geekbench single-core score north of 1000.
> 
> Good luck, whatever your decision.



IMO the move to ARM will be a good thing for the Mac, but it's going to take some time.

We'll probably see some laptops first (probably the Air and maybe a 12'' MB). Maybe also the Mini early on. But I'd be very surprised if we saw ARM iMacs or Mac Pros available to buy during 2021.


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## JohnG (Aug 29, 2020)

Fox said:


> Of course! Secondhand will definitely be my path!



I have worked with a guy in Santa Monica for quite some time. He rebuilds Mac Pro boxes (trash cans, old towers, newer ones at some point). Especially if you are in Los Angeles you might want to get in touch with him. PM me if you want.

IDK if $2,000 will get there or not but RAM has abruptly gotten cheap, SSDs are cheap. Maybe?

John


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## Fox (Aug 29, 2020)

Thanks for the offer, John, but I’m in the DC area.


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## SGordB (Aug 29, 2020)

Pier said:


> IMO the move to ARM will be a good thing for the Mac, but it's going to take some time.
> 
> We'll probably see some laptops first (probably the Air and maybe a 12'' MB). Maybe also the Mini early on. But I'd be very surprised if we saw ARM iMacs or Mac Pros available to buy during 2021.


Yeah, that seems to be the consensus, and I’m inclined to agree. But I’m holding out hope that at least a souped up AS Mac Mini might pop up within 12 months or that rumoured 24” iMac. Normally, the small iMac wouldn’t suit me, but if it has twice the power of an iPad Pro under the hood, you never know. Then again, not only is it unlikely to have user upgradeable RAM, I’m bracing for the possibility the big iMac will no longer offer that critical option. So, depending on what Apple delivers, I may not buy into AS when it finally does arrive (but I doubt it — Apple always wins).


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## rnb_2 (Aug 30, 2020)

If you don't currently have a display/keyboard/mouse/trackpad you can use with a Mac mini, a new 27" iMac might be your best option. Which model will depend on whether you can stretch your budget a bit.

If you need to stay under $2k, the base model is your best bet - it can be had for $1675 via the Adorama link here (you have to use the coupon code - click the green tag next to the price). That will only get you 256GB of internal storage, but you can add an external USB-C drive pretty cheaply, and 64GB of RAM from OWC runs $269 (32GB to add to the stock 8GB runs $120, and would allow you to add another 32GB down the line). This is probably preferable to a Mac mini because it will get you a great 5k display, better GPU, and an included keyboard and mouse, and the processor is roughly the same - 3.1GHz 6-core/12-thread vs 3.2GHz 6-core/12-thread on the high-end Mac mini.

If you can stretch a little bit from $2k, the middle-tier stock config can be had for $1849 (same link as above, with coupon code - they're the 3.3GHz configs). This will get you a faster CPU and 512GB SSD; add memory and external storage as needed. For $2099 (with coupon), you can get the base high-end config with the 3.8GHz 8-core/16-thread CPU, 512GB SSD, and faster GPU. With extra RAM and any necessary external storage, you're probably at ~$2500.

If you really want to go with the Mac mini (I have the i7 with an eGPU, and really like it), your best option is probably Expercom, linked here - the key to the price is that they install their own RAM (they offer Apple RAM for a large upcharge, as an option), saving you the trouble of buying and installing it yourself for a similar price (about $60 more than buying the mini with 8GB and installing 64GB from OWC). They also use a coupon to get the displayed price (click the green tag by the price to get the coupon code) - this would get you the 3.2GHz 6-core/12-thread mini with 64GB RAM and 256GB SSD for $1409, 512GB SSD for ~$1599, or 1TB SSD for $1789. You'll need to add a display/keyboard/mouse to those prices, as well as any external storage, so I think you'll end up spending more than the iMac if you don't already have some or all of them on hand.

You'll need the $49 Apple Thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter for your Focusrite with all of the above.


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## Fox (Aug 30, 2020)

Thanks for the help, everyone. Looks to me like the iMac is the best option, as it is upgradeable to 128 GB if I ever want to do that. I'll do some more research on the iMacs to see what the deal is with possible heat problems and how hard/easy it is to install memory.


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## rnb_2 (Aug 30, 2020)

Fox said:


> Thanks for the help, everyone. Looks to me like the iMac is the best option, as it is upgradeable to 128 GB if I ever want to do that. I'll do some more research on the iMacs to see what the deal is with possible heat problems and how hard/easy it is to install memory.



From what I've heard, they've done a decent job with the cooling on the 27" iMac (not as good as the iMac Pro, but still good, especially if you're not getting the highest-end configs), and the 27" iMac is the only current Mac where upgrading RAM is actually easy. There's a small panel that pops off in the back, a lever to pull, and the RAM slots (4 total, with two available with the stock 8GB installed) are right there.


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## rnb_2 (Aug 31, 2020)

New best price on the 3.1GHz iMac at TigerDirect - $1599.


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## Fox (Aug 31, 2020)

rnb_2 said:


> New best price on the 3.1GHz iMac at TigerDirect - $1599.


Thanks! 
I wonder how prices might fluctuate over the next several months. Would Black Friday be the best time to buy, or can one really predict?


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## rnb_2 (Aug 31, 2020)

Fox said:


> Thanks!
> I wonder how prices might fluctuate over the next several months. Would Black Friday be the best time to buy, or can one really predict?



It's really hard to say - different retailers are constantly running different specials. You can keep an eye on that AppleInsider page when you get close to purchase time and see where prices are.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 31, 2020)

for your budget and timeframe I HIGHLY recommend you get a refurbished maxed out 5,1 MacPro cheese grater. You can get one with 12 cores @ 3.46ghz, lots of RAM and SSD for about that price. I plan to use mine until at least 2023 and maybe 2025 but we'll see. Its still very much running strong here. You will probably not want to run it past Mojave or Catalina..so at some point you will need to be ok in the last year or that 4 year stretch it might happen that you can't get the latest update to LogicPro or something like that...but otherwise it would serve you very very well....

I have had great history buying refurbished machines and various related parts and upgrades from this company...they back up their product with a warranty...





__





iPowerResale






ipowerresale.com





Unless you don't have a monitor already, in which case an iMac of some kind might be good too.

On Ebay there are numerous resellers that have a business rebuilding older MacPros with newer CPU's and selling them as refurbished..which is also a good way to go, but make sure they support it with some kind of limited warranty.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 31, 2020)

If you need a new computer, this is the time - a perennial statement.

But you probably know that Apple is about to go through a major processor change, so if you don't need to make a move right now...


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## Fox (Sep 6, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> But you probably know that Apple is about to go through a major processor change, so if you don't need to make a move right now...



Yup, I'm well aware this is happening, so it's a calculated risk to pull the trigger now, but between the fact that I probably need it now (and will definitely need it by next year), and the fact that who knows what apple will do next year, and I guess also the (reasonable hope/expectation?) that this new machine will be supported for another 4 years, I should be good. I would think these are reasonable assumptions, no? But yes, if apple moves much more quickly, i'll be kicking myself.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 7, 2020)

If you can wait until next year then I would. I'll bet there will be a ton of people selling their 'old' intel Macs to jump into one with the new CPU. I think there will be bargains to be had.


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## rnb_2 (Sep 7, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> If you can wait until next year then I would. I'll bet there will be a ton of people selling their 'old' intel Macs to jump into one with the new CPU. I think there will be bargains to be had.



I won't dispute that there might be bargains to be had next year, but my reason to vote against waiting if the iMac suits your needs and you need to get something soon is that, before this year, the only iMacs that made sense for serious composers were the top-end configurations, and even those weren't always great. Until the early 2019 iMacs, they were limited to 4 cores, and only the configure to order (CTO) i7 machines even had hyperthreading - all base configs were 4-core i5s. Before 2020, the only iMac with more than 4 cores was the 8-core 2019 i9.

In 2020, any base 27" iMac config is a decent starting place for a composer. The cheapest will be tight on internal storage, but they're all at least 6-core/12-thread machines. While 2019 and earlier machines may hit the market once Apple Silicon Macs arrive, the number of good configs for composers will be limited - basically, just the 2019 i9. Since you can get the equal of that machine right now for $2300 (the 2020 i7), I just don't see a great deal of benefit in waiting to try to find a bargain on that config.


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## rnb_2 (Sep 7, 2020)

Oof - going to edit myself here: the base 2019 27" iMacs were 6-core i5s (with no hyperthreading), not four cores. So all of the 2019 base configs had at least six cores, and the CTO i9 had 8 (with hyperthreading). I'd still say they are marginal choices against the 2020 models, but the choices on the used market may be slightly more attractive than I stated above.

I confused myself because I'm used to looking at those 2019 iMacs through the lens (no pun intended) of the photographers I'm typically advising on new system purchases, many of whom are coming from 2014-15 Retina iMacs with ~4GHz i7s. For them, those 6-core i5s just weren't worth it - the performance gain over what they had wasn't worth the purchase price, making the pricey i9 the only vaguely worthwhile choice. I got used to seeing those machines as "do not buy" from that standpoint, and downgraded them in my head. Apologies.


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## JohnG (Sep 9, 2020)

IDK much about it but I am intrigued by one of @charlieclouser 's posts about buddies who're operating with the new Mac. It sounds like quite a tremendous improvement.

Hate to spend so much on screens though; I'm thinking desktop instead of iMac. I have a great iMac for Pro Tools but the iMac Pro's screen, fab though it is, generates a correspondingly fab price tag, for something that glitters but doesn't improve the sound.

So probably hang on to the screens I have, methinks.


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