# "the final push" (adagio, cb, requiem)



## Resoded (Jul 1, 2012)

I decided to have a go with Requiem and the Adagio shorts and ended up with this. I'm not entirely happy with the mix and the master. I'm having a hard time getting everything to sit right in the mix and at the right levels. I still think it's a bit rough around the edges, though I'm fresh out of ideas for improvements, so I'll just post it here.

I find it especially difficult to get that smooth mix/master that the big league productions achieve.

Is the brass too loud btw?

As always, all comments and ideas are welcome and much appreciated. 

http://soundcloud.com/erikwall-n/the-final-push


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## antoniopandrade (Jul 1, 2012)

Are you using any mastering plug-ins? Feels like you're lacking some overall compression. Usually when you feel you lack "smoothness" that's compression, it'll make your tracks seem louder, without actually occupying that much headroom, so you can make instruments sit better in the mix without having them be super loud. Of course this is very useful for brass and percussion, woodwinds and strings depending on the style and preference of the user.


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## Resoded (Jul 2, 2012)

antoniopandrade @ 1st July 2012 said:


> Are you using any mastering plug-ins? Feels like you're lacking some overall compression. Usually when you feel you lack "smoothness" that's compression, it'll make your tracks seem louder, without actually occupying that much headroom, so you can make instruments sit better in the mix without having them be super loud. Of course this is very useful for brass and percussion, woodwinds and strings depending on the style and preference of the user.



Yeah I use Ozone 4 and I use the orchestral preset with some small alterations and added EQs. It's an interesting suggestion to use more compression, I'll try it out and remaster the track.

Thanks for the feedback mate!


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## Manuel (Jul 3, 2012)

Hey Erik,

for the the brass is not too loud. Maybe you could try add some more reverb to at least some of the instruments? There is also this trick Nick Phoenix showed in a video, using a short reverb only slightly (I believe he used ACME storage 0.8 from QL Spaces) to fill the gaps a bit. The overall sound then appears more massive. However, this can quickly lead to a too fuzzy sound... 

Oh, and by the way, very nice composition and midi treatment 

regards, Manuel


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## Resoded (Jul 4, 2012)

Manuel @ 3rd July 2012 said:


> Hey Erik,
> 
> for the the brass is not too loud. Maybe you could try add some more reverb to at least some of the instruments? There is also this trick Nick Phoenix showed in a video, using a short reverb only slightly (I believe he used ACME storage 0.8 from QL Spaces) to fill the gaps a bit. The overall sound then appears more massive. However, this can quickly lead to a too fuzzy sound...
> 
> ...



Thanks for the feedback Manuel!

I'm actually already using that trick, though maybe I set the level of the acme-reverb too low. I'll experiment with it a bit and see if I can add more.  Which instruments do you think need more reverb?


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## Manuel (Jul 5, 2012)

oh 

I listened to it again, and maybe my initial remark was a bit hasty. I certainly couldn't single out an particular instrument which needed more early reflections. However, I would still say that the tails are quite short and possibly quite soft (bear in mind that I generally drown my stuff in reverb, so I might not be the best advice for clean mixes  ). What have you used for your tails?

best regards, Manuel


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## Resoded (Jul 6, 2012)

Manuel @ 5th July 2012 said:


> oh
> 
> I listened to it again, and maybe my initial remark was a bit hasty. I certainly couldn't single out an particular instrument which needed more early reflections. However, I would still say that the tails are quite short and possibly quite soft (bear in mind that I generally drown my stuff in reverb, so I might not be the best advice for clean mixes  ). What have you used for your tails?
> 
> best regards, Manuel



I used the instrument specific so-cal presets and then the extra reverb on top of the orchestra. I experimented a bit with the amount of reverb on the front stage instruments but found the violin spiccs to disappear with too much reverb. It's tricky to find the right balance.


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## Manuel (Jul 6, 2012)

yea, certainly. And its always a matter of taste. I often use the Valhalla Room plug for long tails (since I cannot afford the Lexicon plugs right now). Do you happen to know that one?

Manuel


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## Resoded (Jul 6, 2012)

Manuel @ 6th July 2012 said:


> yea, certainly. And its always a matter of taste. I often use the Valhalla Room plug for long tails (since I cannot afford the Lexicon plugs right now). Do you happen to know that one?
> 
> Manuel



I haven't looked it up yet but I think I've seen someone singing it's praise here on the forums. Is it worth the money?


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## Manuel (Jul 6, 2012)

very much worth it, since its just 50$


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## Resoded (Jul 16, 2012)

http://soundcloud.com/erikwall-n/the-final-push-1

Here we go, an updated version. More compression, a bit more reverb and some other minor changes.

Thanks again Antonio and Manuel for your feedback!


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## Manuel (Jul 17, 2012)

Nice, really homogenous and well balanced. Im pretty sure it's an big improvement compared to your earlier version (which doesn't seem to be online anymore, so a direct comparison was not possible...)

What do you think yourself about the new mix?

Manuel


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## Resoded (Jul 17, 2012)

Manuel @ 17th July 2012 said:


> Nice, really homogenous and well balanced. Im pretty sure it's an big improvement compared to your earlier version (which doesn't seem to be online anymore, so a direct comparison was not possible...)
> 
> What do you think yourself about the new mix?
> 
> Manuel



Thanks mate, here's a link to the old one for a comparison.

http://soundcloud.com/erikwall-n/the-final-push/s-phvHF

Well, in one sense I'm very happy with the mix and master since it's by far the best I've achieved so far. On the other hand, I still think there's a long road to get to professional levels. My mix/master doesn't feel as light and airy as the mixes I'm trying to match. It sounds thick and muddy, and I'm not sure how to fix this. Overall there's something about the mix that doesn't feel right and I can't pinpoint it. Maybe there's a lot of things acting together.


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## Manuel (Jul 18, 2012)

I cross compared the two version now, and I'd say the new one is definitely an improvement. As for the thickness, as far as I can tell, I'd say you are doing quite well. Have you read Ernest Cholakis stuff on panning using Vienna Suite's Powerpan?

http://soniccontrol.tv/2011/03/08/vienna-suite-power-pan-strings-positions-a-professional-orchestration-review/ (http://soniccontrol.tv/2011/03/08/vienn ... on-review/)

http://soniccontrol.tv/2011/03/19/vienna-suite-power-pan-brass-positions-a-professional-orchestrationtm-review/ (http://soniccontrol.tv/2011/03/19/vienn ... tm-review/)

http://soniccontrol.tv/2011/08/25/vienna-suite-power-pan-woodwind-positions/ (http://soniccontrol.tv/2011/08/25/vienn ... positions/)

http://soniccontrol.tv/2011/11/30/vienna-suite-powerpan-percussion-placement/ (http://soniccontrol.tv/2011/11/30/vienn ... placement/)

Don't know if it helps though... 

Manuel


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## Resoded (Jul 18, 2012)

Manuel @ 18th July 2012 said:


> I cross compared the two version now, and I'd say the new one is definitely an improvement. As for the thickness, as far as I can tell, I'd say you are doing quite well. Have you read Ernest Cholakis stuff on panning using Vienna Suite's Powerpan?
> 
> http://soniccontrol.tv/2011/03/08/vienna-suite-power-pan-strings-positions-a-professional-orchestration-review/ (http://soniccontrol.tv/2011/03/08/vienn ... on-review/)
> 
> ...



Powerpan looks really interesting, though that suite has a hefty pricetag. Especially since the powerpan and possibly the reverb is the only interesting things in the pack for me. It would be a lot better if they sold the plugins separately and not bundled imho.


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## Manuel (Jul 18, 2012)

Flux has a Stereo Tool with similar features as Powerpan and its free. Have you checked that one out?

http://www.fluxhome.com/products/freewares/stereotool

Regards,

Manuel


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## Resoded (Jul 18, 2012)

Manuel @ 18th July 2012 said:


> Flux has a Stereo Tool with similar features as Powerpan and its free. Have you checked that one out?
> 
> http://www.fluxhome.com/products/freewares/stereotool
> 
> ...



Ah, interesting. Downloading.


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