# Recommended Light-Weight Orchestral Sketch Libraries



## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 30, 2018)

YO

So Amadeus piqued my interest as a very light-weight but robust sketching tool and I was wondering if folks have any other recommendations?

I would rather have individual sections than a tutti sort of library. 

Doesn't need to be amazing but just skims all the sections + choirs etc.


----------



## HelixK (Nov 30, 2018)

Individual sections + choirs, lightweight yet robust... for Kontat... yea, the only one I can think now is The Orchestra.

I use Sibelius with Noteperformer for sketching and it's awesome.


----------



## Crowe (Nov 30, 2018)

The lightest would be CineSymphony Light:
https://cinesamples.com/product/cinesymphony-lite

I *think* that the Sonivox Orchestral Companions, while taking up some space, are pretty light on ram (and also, the individual strings, brass and ww sections are dirt cheap):
https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/1-Instruments/58-Inst-Bundle/1856-Film-Score-Companion

Orchestral Tools Inspire isn't very large, but I've no idea how it is on RAM

Sonuscore's 'The Orchestra' also has a smaller footprint unless you intensively use the Engine.

Also, Red Room Audio's Palette + Melodics, which is what I now use. I love it and I would recommend it over everything else. It doesn't seem very RAM intensive but I could be wrong.

EDIT:

I have bought Amadeus and it's exactly what you describe you want.


----------



## David Cuny (Nov 30, 2018)

Here are a couple sketching libraries:

Red Room's *Palette Symphonic Sketchpad*
Vienna's *Smart Orchestra*
Sonuscore's *The Orchestra*
Garritan's *Instant Orchestra*
Indiginus' *Solid State Symphony*
The *Symphony *instrument in *Amadeus *is modeled on Solid State Symphony.

*Edit: *Ooops... Looks like *Shiirai *beat me to the list.


----------



## Saxer (Nov 30, 2018)

Inspire 1&2
VSL SE
Kirk Hunter

I resampled a lot of stuff into Logics EXS sampler. Takes some time (using the Autosampler in MainStage) in but when done it works great! And I can always add what I need.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 30, 2018)

Shiirai said:


> The lightest would be CineSymphony Light:
> https://cinesamples.com/product/cinesymphony-lite
> 
> I *think* that the Sonivox Orchestral Companions, while taking up some space, are pretty light on ram (and also, the individual strings, brass and ww sections are dirt cheap):
> ...



Red Room is really attractive.


----------



## Crowe (Nov 30, 2018)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Red Room is really attractive.



We've talked about this. Have you gotten it yet?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 30, 2018)

Shiirai said:


> We've talked about this. Have you gotten it yet?



haha!

the last couple of weeks have been overwhelming to say the least.

i have not gotten it,

yet.


----------



## HelixK (Nov 30, 2018)

I thought Inspire and Pallete were ensemble libraries and didn't include individual sections. 

I also wasn't aware of Vienna Smart Orchestra, looks like a great sketching library with individual sections. Any users here?


----------



## Gerbil (Nov 30, 2018)

I like using Wallander's woodwind and brass with the Albion legacy sections on my laptop for this sort of thing.


----------



## stfciu (Nov 30, 2018)

Maybe it's not very comprehensive and little bit dusty but Orchestral essentials by ProjectSam are very light on ram and cpu. It does sound great in the same time. Still using it.


----------



## Crowe (Nov 30, 2018)

HelixK said:


> I thought Inspire and Pallete were ensemble libraries and didn't include individual sections.
> 
> I also wasn't aware of Vienna Smart Orchestra, looks like a great sketching library with individual sections. Any users here?



You are right. In case of Palette, the Melodics pack splits everything up a bit more.


----------



## MartinH. (Nov 30, 2018)

I don't know if this approach has much merit, but what I've started to try out recently is building a template from the NI symphony series collection _ensemble _patches. E.g. I have one Kontakt instance with 10x the brass ensemble loaded, first 6 in their default settings and the last 4 each only have one instrument section enabled. If I'm not mistaken as long as you load them like this in one single Kontakt instance they should all share the same sample pool, and still leaves you with different midi lanes to play in individual melody lines with individual modwheel modulation, or use different articulations accross the range of the ensemble or different sections. One plus point is that the keyswitches are the same accross all sections this way, without any needed setup to achieve this. The readout at the top of the Kontakt instance says 0.63gb for all brass loaded in that template. The task manager says just under 12gb ram usage for reaper. So I'm not 100% sure it actually saves anything compared to splitting accross different Kontakt instances.


----------



## SergeD (Nov 30, 2018)

Shiirai said:


> I *think* that the Sonivox Orchestral Companions, while taking up some space, are pretty light on ram (and also, the individual strings, brass and ww sections are dirt cheap):
> https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/1-Instruments/58-Inst-Bundle/1856-Film-Score-Companion



About 10$ for all of those:
https://www.kvraudio.com/marketplace/orchestral-companion-strings-by-sonivox
https://www.kvraudio.com/marketplace/orchestral-companion-woodwinds-by-sonivox
https://www.kvraudio.com/marketplace/orchestral-companion-brass-by-sonivox


----------



## Nao Gam (Nov 30, 2018)

I just found this today.. there's a free version too
http://vis.versilstudios.net/vsco-2.html


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 30, 2018)

if it's just for sketching, and you're not concerned at all about the actual final mix, I'd take a look at EastWest Goliath. It has everything. Extremely light weight and has both orchestral and choir sections....and a nice Steinway among others.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 30, 2018)

Thanks for all the suggestions thus far. Ill have to take a look through them.

Definitely only for sketching - I have to travel a bit and my laptop is only 8gig ram. I use sibelius but I like to freely record which is difficult (and impossible with noteperformer). Otherwise it'd be a great choice by itself.


----------



## Sopranos (Nov 30, 2018)

The Orchestra. 

Is it still on sale?


----------



## Michael Stibor (Nov 30, 2018)

Is the Red Room Primary Colors a good indicator of the Pallette series? Just checking because I really didn't find anything useful in the free version.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 2, 2018)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Is the Red Room Primary Colors a good indicator of the Pallette series? Just checking because I really didn't find anything useful in the free version.



I'd also like to know how the primary colors brass compares to the palette brass. I've loaded up the primary colors one today and thought it sounds really thin and "far away" compared to NI SSC BE.


----------



## sonicscores (Dec 4, 2018)

Simon and others,

Amadeus is not a tutti sort of library. It has all the individual instruments and sections so please do the research before stating such facts and confusing others.


----------



## MatFluor (Dec 4, 2018)

Amadeus definitely is a worthy contender as light-weight Orchestral sketch library.

The sounds are good and it's very light weight (with my settings, the full string sections Vn I, Vn II, Va, Vc, Cb together take up roughly 125 MB of RAM. It has single instruments and solo instruments as well. (e.g. Flute I and Flute II plus Flute ensemble. Same with e.g. Section Celli, Small Section Celli, Solo Cello).

Check out the walkthrough, for that price and sound, a very worthy contender. It's fresh, but as said - features all you need and is extremely lightweight.


----------



## brek (Dec 5, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> Amadeus definitely is a worthy contender as light-weight Orchestral sketch library.
> 
> The sounds are good and it's very light weight (with my settings, the full string sections Vn I, Vn II, Va, Vc, Cb together take up roughly 125 MB of RAM. It has single instruments and solo instruments as well. (e.g. Flute I and Flute II plus Flute ensemble. Same with e.g. Section Celli, Small Section Celli, Solo Cello).
> 
> Check out the walkthrough, for that price and sound, a very worthy contender. It's fresh, but as said - features all you need and is extremely lightweight.



Seems to compete with Garritan based on features and price range, but based on the walk-through this sounds so much better. This seems like an ideal library for students or others who aren't ready to invest hundreds/thousands of dollars into sample libraries (that will then necessitate even more gear purchases because their Macbooks aren't equipped to run them).

What's the catch? No sampled legato? No mic options? The samples themselves are open-source (edit: saw in the other thread they have NDA deals in place to source the samples from elsewhere)? Either way, this looks really attractive.


----------



## robgb (Dec 6, 2018)

brek said:


> Seems to compete with Garritan based on features and price range


After using Amadeus for an hour or so, I'd say it blows Garritan and Miroslav and The Orchestra out of the water and you get so much bang for your buck it's kind of a no-brainer, especially at the VI discounted price. There are a few things I don't love (very few), but overall the library can be used for pretty much anything, including full blown productions. It really comes down to talent.

As for no sampled legato? I actually prefer scripted legato myself. Take a listen to the sampled legato on 8dio's 8Dioboe, and you'll get an idea about how sampled legato can go wrong. And the Amadeus legato can be adjusted to your liking. I haven't encountered problems with it so far. I also like that the samples are recorded fairly dry. Kind of a must for me, personally.

I think the weakest part of the library are the solo strings (the solo brass and winds are terrific), but honestly, compared to some solo string libraries I've bought in the past, they hold up pretty well, especially when blended in with the full orchestra. My only real gripe is that you have to use Kontakt 5.8 and above. Because I'm still on Yosemite (hey, it works—until now), I can't download 5.8. Fortunately, the library also works in Kontakt Player, and KP 6 works on my operating system. I do miss being able to hit the wrench and play around a bit with the samples, etc., but I think I'll live.

This is not only an ideal library for students on a budget, but is pretty much an ideal library for any composer.


----------



## MarcelM (Dec 6, 2018)

robgb said:


> After using it for an hour or so, I'd say it blows Garritan and Miroslav and The Orchestra out of the water and you get so much bang for your buck it's kind of a no-brainer, especially at the VI discounted price. There are a few things I don't love (very few), but overall the library can be used for pretty much anything, including full blown productions. It really comes down to talent.
> 
> As for no sampled legato? I actually prefer scripted legato myself. Take a listen to the sampled legato on 8dio's 8Dioboe, and you'll get an idea about how sampled legato can go wrong. And the Amadeus legato can be adjusted to your liking. I haven't encountered problems with it so far. I also like that the samples are recorded fairly dry. Kind of a must for me, personally.
> 
> ...



dont you think the orchestra sounds a bit better than amadeus? i was thinking about amadeus to use it on my laptop, but the only audio demo is average id say. no short notes for choir, right?

and while we are at shorts, i didnt like the string shorts too much in the walkthrough. you know, machine gun effect etc


----------



## sonicscores (Dec 6, 2018)

Obviously, you have not checked out the demos on the site. There are now two and the second one has shorts, and more demos are coming.


----------



## MarcelM (Dec 6, 2018)

sonicscores said:


> Obviously, you have not checked out the demos on the site. There are now two and the second one has shorts, and more demos are coming.



when i checked there was only one demo. i also checked the second, and i dont mean to be rude but i dont like the demos too much.

i will wait for some user demos here at VI and then make my decision.


----------



## robgb (Dec 6, 2018)

MarcelM said:


> dont you think the orchestra sounds a bit better than amadeus? i was thinking about amadeus to use it on my laptop, but the only audio demo is average id say. no short notes for choir, right?
> 
> and while we are at shorts, i didnt like the string shorts too much in the walkthrough. you know, machine gun effect etc


I am not thrilled The Orchestra, no. And I think the demos on the Sonic Scores site are very good.


----------



## Daniel (Dec 6, 2018)

You can wait this ---- > https://projectsam.com/free-orchestra/
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/projectsam-the-free-orchestra.77527/


----------



## ohernie (Dec 6, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> if it's just for sketching, and you're not concerned at all about the actual final mix, I'd take a look at EastWest Goliath. It has everything. Extremely light weight and has both orchestral and choir sections....and a nice Steinway among others.



If this is anything like Colossus I wouldn't recommend it. Colossus was basically a grab bag of old sample libraries from different developers. I was looking at it as a virtual GM replacement. Probably one of my greatest disappointments for the money because there was no timbre or volume matching between libraries.


----------



## sonicscores (Dec 6, 2018)

How can you make a comment like this without owning the library and not listening to it. Sorry but you are just wrong. Some of the samples were recorded in the past three months, some this year.

I am seeing a common pattern here. The negative opinions are from those who have not purchased it. Those who have purchased it, love it.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 6, 2018)

I picked up Amadeus. It is the right kind of light weight but in-depth that I was after. 

For the price it sounds fantastic and is very usable and quick which is great for sketch work. 

Thanks for all the recommendations everyone!


----------



## ScoreFace (Dec 7, 2018)

I thought about buying Amadeus as well as it has a very good price. But I have to admit that I am with Marcel, the audio demos didn't convince me, they sounded a little flat to me. Of course I can't judge about the product, I am only talking about my first impression. But of course, for that price, it is good value.

I have bought The Orchestra on the BF sale and I'm really loving it! . It has all important articulations, plus a lot fantastic arrangement presets.


----------



## KallumS (Dec 7, 2018)

Orchestral Tools Berlin Inspire 1 and/ or 2.

9.3gb footprint, very lightweight and with a decent amount of sections (1+2 violins, first chairs, solo instruments, etc). Includes a piano and harp as well as all of the essentials. 2 includes children and women's choir.

Not to mention sounds fantastic for such a light orchestra package.

The website for Inspire even states that it's designed to be run on computers/ laptops with 8gb ram.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 7, 2018)

ohernie said:


> If this is anything like Colossus I wouldn't recommend it. Colossus was basically a grab bag of old sample libraries from different developers. I was looking at it as a virtual GM replacement. Probably one of my greatest disappointments for the money because there was no timbre or volume matching between libraries.



Yes, it's basically the same as the old Colossus. It's all EW stuff though, including samples from many of their older libs, such as the same Steinway and in Symphonic Orchestra. For purely sketching, its okay and has a very small footprint. I still use the "Morphs" patches regularly, they are wonderful. I have used these in many productions.


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 7, 2018)

Amadeus.


----------



## sonicscores (Dec 7, 2018)

Wolfie2112,

Are you saying this is East West stuff? There is not one sample from East West.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 7, 2018)

KallumS said:


> Orchestral Tools Berlin Inspire 1 and/ or 2.
> 
> 9.3gb footprint, very lightweight and with a decent amount of sections (1+2 violins, first chairs, solo instruments, etc). Includes a piano and harp as well as all of the essentials. 2 includes children and women's choir.
> 
> ...


yeah i did consider but I own everything that is contained in that library so I would just be paying twice for the same product. Not enough flexibility in there for me either.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 7, 2018)

sonicscores said:


> Wolfie2112,
> 
> Are you saying this is East West stuff? There is not one sample from East West.


I think they are talking about a different product - EW Goliath. I didn't realize it was a sketching library.


----------



## Quasar (Dec 7, 2018)

KallumS said:


> Orchestral Tools Berlin Inspire 1 and/ or 2.
> 
> 9.3gb footprint, very lightweight and with a decent amount of sections (1+2 violins, first chairs, solo instruments, etc). Includes a piano and harp as well as all of the essentials. 2 includes children and women's choir.
> 
> ...


But AFAIK it's still an unfair "apples and oranges" comparison with Amadeus. Not that I have either one yet, but wouldn't Amadeus be more appropriately compared with other "full" orchestra options such as Garritan or Miroslav on the low end, and maybe SSO on the high end? Going through the instrument list in the user guide, Amadeus appears to have every single "standard" orchestral instrument in both solo and in ensemble patches.

Inspire, on the other hand, seems to be another "shortcut" sort of sketch library, ensemble based with perhaps a few solos thrown in, along the lines of Albion, CineSymphony Lite et al... It may be a great library, but you don't get the same precise control over each individual instrument for traditional orchestration purposes.

From what I can tell so far, Amadeus looks like a stellar solution for having a lightweight, easy-to-use but _full-blown_ essential orchestra template. I already have GPO 5 for this, but Amadeus sounds, on first impression, like a significant sonic step up.


----------



## Sopranos (Dec 7, 2018)

I'm really trying to talk myself into it but every time I listen to the demos it sounds like crap :/ not the writing but the sonic quality. For some reason, to my ears, it sounds cheap / but then, it is cheap. Hmmm.


----------



## Pingafuego (Dec 8, 2018)

robgb said:


> After using Amadeus for an hour or so, I'd say it blows Garritan and Miroslav and The Orchestra out of the water and you get so much bang for your buck it's kind of a no-brainer, especially at the VI discounted price. There are a few things I don't love (very few), but overall the library can be used for pretty much anything, including full blown productions. It really comes down to talent.
> 
> As for no sampled legato? I actually prefer scripted legato myself. Take a listen to the sampled legato on 8dio's 8Dioboe, and you'll get an idea about how sampled legato can go wrong. And the Amadeus legato can be adjusted to your liking. I haven't encountered problems with it so far. I also like that the samples are recorded fairly dry. Kind of a must for me, personally.
> 
> ...



Hi, where do I find the VI discounted price? Thanks!


----------



## MarcelM (Dec 8, 2018)

Pingafuego said:


> Hi, where do I find the VI discounted price? Thanks!



use code "vicontrol99" when you checkout.


----------



## Pingafuego (Dec 8, 2018)

MarcelM said:


> use code "vicontrol99" when you checkout.


Thanks!


----------



## robgb (Dec 8, 2018)

Sopranos said:


> I'm really trying to talk myself into it but every time I listen to the demos it sounds like crap :/ not the writing but the sonic quality. For some reason, to my ears, it sounds cheap / but then, it is cheap. Hmmm.


This is a well-known phenomenon in the psychology of consumption. Because it costs less, it must not sound as good as that six hundred dollar library over there. Well, I have more expensive libraries (8Dio, Spitfire) AND Amadeus. I can tell you that they sound "slightly" different, because that's the nature of libraries, but Amadeus doesn't sound cheap in comparison. And, really, these days it all comes down to the scripting more than anything else. The scripting on Amadeus was done by Tracy Collins of Indiginus. And if you've ever owned any of the Indiginus libraries, you know they're a huge, huge bang for their buck, with excellent user interfaces and behind the wrench wizardry.


----------



## MarcelM (Dec 8, 2018)

robgb said:


> This is a well-known phenomenon in the psychology of consumption. Because it costs less, it must not sound as good as that six hundred dollar library over there. Well, I have more expensive libraries (8Dio, Spitfire) AND Amadeus. I can tell you that they sound "slightly" different, because that's the nature of libraries, but Amadeus doesn't sound cheap in comparison. And, really, these days it all comes down to the scripting more than anything else. The scripting on Amadeus was done by Tracy Collins of Indiginus. And if you've ever owned any of the Indiginus libraries, you know they're a huge, huge bang for their buck, with excellent user interfaces and behind the wrench wizardry.



honestly, you cannot really mean this serious. i havent heard anything which sounds even close to spitfire stuff, but you may always post some snippet and so we can hear it.
no offense rob, but you were also the guy who said there is no difference between a cheap and expensive audio interface (and ofcourse there is!).
i really really dont mean it rude, but did you ever check your ears? SERIOUS question!


----------



## robgb (Dec 8, 2018)

MarcelM said:


> honestly, you cannot really mean this serious. i havent heard anything which sounds even close to spitfire stuff, but you may always post some snippet and so we can hear it.
> no offense rob, but you were also the guy who said there is no difference between a cheap and expensive audio interface (and ofcourse there is!).
> i really really dont mean it rude, but did you ever check your ears? SERIOUS question!


I've posted something using Amadeus elsewhere in the forum. But you can't really judge by my work, because I'm clearly not as talented as half the people on this forum. By the way, the samples used in Amadeus were taken from other sample developers which haven't been disclosed. For all we know there are 8Dio and Spitfire samples in there. Just sayin'.

As for audio interfaces, I was talking about TODAY'S audio interfaces, with their good preamps, not the cheapies from the past. And I'm not sure I said there is NO difference (maybe I did, but I don't remember). Just not enough of a difference to justify the outrageous differences in price. As for my ears, as a matter of fact, I DID have them checked and they have degraded no more than than the average guy my age. I do like to say my ears are shot, however. They certainly aren't a twenty year old's ears, by any means. So I guess if you're twenty you'll know immediately that a recording was done with a cheap audio interface and pre-amps.

I was serious about the psychology of consumption. We see the same type of thing when people claim that some modeled instruments (or cheaper libraries) sound "synthetic." Yet in a blind test they couldn't tell the difference.


----------



## ism (Dec 8, 2018)

robgb said:


> As for no sampled legato? I actually prefer scripted legato myself. Take a listen to the sampled legato on 8dio's 8Dioboe, and you'll get an idea about how sampled legato can go wrong



While of course I complete respect you own preference, I think 8dioboe is an example of recorded legato going exactly right - it has a character you’de never get with a script. The problem is that it’s extremely limited - deviate from the very narrow style it’s designed for and it does indeed go terribly wrong. I love this oboe within - and only within - that very narrow range. (Of course The marketing video doesn’t exactly go out of its way to help you understand just how extremely narrow that stylistic range is (even for a vi), but that’s a separate issue). 

My point is just to frame this as a trade off - unless you have something like the Joshua Bell with 13 recorded legatos, there’s always going to be a stylistic range outside of which which recorded legatos are going to break . In which case scripted legato does gives you a better range, it’s that’s what you value, though it’s never going to match the sweet spot of a good recorded legato.


----------



## Sopranos (Dec 8, 2018)

So we could just be buying repackaged Kontakt boxed orchestral sounds?


----------



## David Cuny (Dec 8, 2018)

Sopranos said:


> So we could just be buying repackaged Kontakt boxed orchestral sounds?


I don't recall the developer saying the samples came from other Kontakt libraries, merely that they were licensed content.

This library offers:

Curated samples that sound good

A clean UI with consistent keyswitches that's easy to use
Flexible "Orchestra" patches for quick mock-ups

A small footprint that makes it good with lower-power machines
A low price point
I'm not sure I understand all the hand-wringing going on.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 8, 2018)

The problem has nothing to do with Amadeus and everything to do with buying inexpensive all in one libraries and being disappointed with the sound. You do get what you pay for. 

But if it is what you need because of limitations, Amadeus seems like a decent fix. And you can't complain about the price right now. I just don't know that I would personally buy it because I already have stuff that fill this space and I don't need another okay library


----------



## Sopranos (Dec 8, 2018)

Does the sound even compare to EWSO Gold? That would be the all-in-one it would be replacing at that price point. Can the sound quality even compete with that? Not for a sketch library but for an actual production library?


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 8, 2018)

Sopranos said:


> Does the sound even compare to EWSO Gold? That would be the all-in-one it would be replacing at that price point. Can the sound quality even compete with that? Not for a sketch library but for an actual production library?


I doubt it. But I don't think gold is lightweight technically.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 8, 2018)

robgb said:


> I was serious about the psychology of consumption. We see the same type of thing when people claim that some modeled instruments (or cheaper libraries) sound "synthetic." Yet in a blind test they couldn't tell the difference.



More people say they like coke over pepsi but afaik in blind tests more prefer pepsi. I've bought headphones that cost between 20 and 30$ iirc, because many reviews said they are on par with 200-300$ headphones. I wouldn't know the difference anyway, my ears are shot too :D.


----------



## robgb (Dec 8, 2018)

Sopranos said:


> Does the sound even compare to EWSO Gold? That would be the all-in-one it would be replacing at that price point. Can the sound quality even compete with that? Not for a sketch library but for an actual production library?


It's probably not as extensive as Gold. Not as many articulations. I used Gold for a month while on the Creative Cloud and thought it was good, but too frustrating because I couldn't control the articulations the way I prefer. As far as sound goes, I think Amadeus sounds just as good.



Sopranos said:


> So we could just be buying repackaged Kontakt boxed orchestral sounds?



I would say no.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna (Dec 8, 2018)

I actually own EW Symphonic Orchestra but it was too much for my laptop HDD and RAM footprint too big. Also no quick way to organise all the articulations.


----------



## rrichard63 (Dec 9, 2018)

ism said:


> ... there’s always going to be a stylistic range outside of which which recorded legatos are going to break . In which case scripted legato does gives you a better range, it’s that’s what you value, though it’s never going to match the sweet spot of a good recorded legato. ...


This comment is a good example of why VI-Control is so valuable. I just learned something very helpful to me. Thank you!


----------



## Akarin (Dec 9, 2018)

robgb said:


> This is a well-known phenomenon in the psychology of consumption. Because it costs less, it must not sound as good as that six hundred dollar library over there. Well, I have more expensive libraries (8Dio, Spitfire) AND Amadeus. I can tell you that they sound "slightly" different, because that's the nature of libraries, but Amadeus doesn't sound cheap in comparison. And, really, these days it all comes down to the scripting more than anything else. The scripting on Amadeus was done by Tracy Collins of Indiginus. And if you've ever owned any of the Indiginus libraries, you know they're a huge, huge bang for their buck, with excellent user interfaces and behind the wrench wizardry.



Thanks for the laugh


----------



## ism (Dec 9, 2018)

robgb said:


> I was serious about the psychology of consumption. We see the same type of thing when people claim that some modeled instruments (or cheaper libraries) sound "synthetic." Yet in a blind test they couldn't tell the difference.




I'm very sceptical about this claim. Not denying that they exist, but I'd guess that psychology of consumption effects are second order at best, maybe even third order.

But what I do think is true is that, extrapolating from your enthusiasm for SWAM, you're someone who puts a premium on different aspect of the perceptual dimensions of music. Wheres someone like myself will focus much more dimensions of sonority. And its great that we have such diversity on this form .

So there are profound psychological and perceptual dimensions at play in human perceptions of music in general, and in evaulating sample libraries in particular. But the assertion that the psychology of consumption is the dominant effect here strikes me as , well, a boldly counterintuitive hypothesis at best, upon which likes a great burden of proof.


----------



## robgb (Dec 9, 2018)

ism said:


> Wheres someone like myself will focus much more dimensions of sonority.


Which is also one of the many reasons I like SWAM. In fact, the reason I brought up the psychology of consumption is because a few years back a SWAM violin was blind tested against real solo violins and several sample library violins. Many people (possibly most) thought the SWAM sample was one of the real violins. It's only when people KNOW it's a modeled instrument that they start talking about how "synthy" it sounds. (Sometimes the problem is performance, which I'm all too aware of. The SWAM instruments take a lot of time to learn.)

I think the same applies when a library has a low price. People think it can't POSSIBLY be any good, and that colors their perception. I'm not saying it's the only factor involved— because let's face it, some low cost libraries do sound cheap (and some expensive ones as well)—but it's certainly a phenomenon that consumers fall prey to and marketers are very much aware of.

"Price and quality don’t always correlate directly, but consumers often have a hard time separating the two, according to a new study by The University of Chicago Booth School of Business. Consumers tend to equate low prices with low quality and high prices with high quality, but the correlation is not always consistent, the report noted. Consumers, however, don't always realize that."

https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/7280-price-vs-quality.html

All that said, to each his own. I've been using Amadeus for a few days now and think it sounds great. And frankly, for me, that's all that really matters.


----------

