# Recommendations for plugins that can auto detect chord/scale/notes from Kontakt audio?



## Owen Smith (Sep 15, 2021)

Hey friends,

Hope everyone is well. I apologize if my question is unclear or misguided. My situation is this: I have a number of Kontakt Libraries that have chord progressions or textures that only require me to play a single note on my keyboard to trigger them. Examples: textures from Symphobia 3 Lumina, chord progressions from The Ronroco library from Loot audio (which has an awesome sound), guitar chord patterns in Spitfire Albion Solstice, guitar patterns (loops) in Opacity. In many cases the key/scale of the sample might be indicated in the GUI or might coordinate somewhat with the midi note being played. However, in other cases, the GUI says that all the samples are in the key of D for example and then there are 10 blue keys on the keyboard where I can trigger different chords in that key, but I'm not certain what chords they are and they don't correspond to the actually midi notes (ex: playing an E doesn't correspond to an E major or minor chord). I can sometimes figure what chords are being played on my own just by playing another instrument along with it, but in other cases there are unusual inversions or modes being used or the sample changes between one chord to the other and I have trouble figuring out what exactly is going on. On top of this I have so little time to compose that I can't waste time trying to figure out what is being played in samples that are not well labeled.

So, I'm wondering if anyone knows of a plugin/s that could be added to the effects chain and could detect NOT what midi notes I'm playing but the actual chords, notes, or scales of the audio coming from my Kontakt instrument. Does that make sense? I know in Scaler 2 you can import audio and it will tell you the chord progression, but I don't know if you can have it detect audio coming out of Kontakt in real time. Any suggestions on plugins or methods on how I could go about what I'm trying to do in an time/cost effective way?

Cheers and many thanks for taking your time to consider my inquiry 

Owen


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## eakwarren (Sep 16, 2021)

Hi Owen,

Since you use FL Studio, did you know it includes Wave Candy which you can set to show the fundamental frequencies next to a keyboard. You'd need to analyze the chord yourself but this has some advantages.






There's also IRCAM Lab's Snail plugin (Mac & Win $99) which is similar but has a couple more views. (I like the "snail" one.)










A quick Google search returns some additional options.

DDMF Chorddetector (Mac & Win $15) Edit: sorry, looks like this isn't a VST but standalone software.






http://www.shuriken.se/?page_id=199 (What Chord) (Free Mac only)





I prefer frequency analysis over the simpler name method because you can examine the chord voicing.

Also, I'm sure you're aware there are sites like Chordify and MazMazika that can list chords in songs ... for when the artist _isn't_ kind enough to share the project file with you. 

Happy composing!

Eric


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## Owen Smith (Sep 16, 2021)

Thank you so much @eakwarren! That is really helpful! I've never used wave candy before, but I'm going to look for it and check it out! From the looks of your screenshot it looks like you're holding down one note (F5) on your keyboard which is playing an ensemble chord. I see that you have frequencies at several octaves of F,G#,C (F minor) which is also confirmed on the GUI. Am I reading that all correctly? I think this will do exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks again for taking your time to help me out


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## eakwarren (Sep 16, 2021)

Owen Smith said:


> Am I reading that all correctly?


Yessir!


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## Trash Panda (Sep 16, 2021)

Scaler 2


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## Justin L. Franks (Sep 16, 2021)

Owen Smith said:


> However, in other cases, the GUI says that all the samples are in the key of D for example and then there are 10 blue keys on the keyboard where I can trigger different chords in that key, but I'm not certain what chords they are and they don't correspond to the actually midi notes (ex: playing an E doesn't correspond to an E major or minor chord).


Typically when this is done, on the transposition keys C is the root, D is the II chord, G is the V chord, and so forth.

So if the sample is in D major, the E key would be F# minor.

Not always the case, but it would be the first thing I would check in these instances.


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## Owen Smith (Sep 17, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Typically when this is done, on the transposition keys C is the root, D is the II chord, G is the V chord, and so forth.
> 
> So if the sample is in D major, the E key would be F# minor.
> 
> Not always the case, but it would be the first thing I would check in these instances.


Thanks @Justin L. Franks! I think I have noticed that before as well, but not in all cases. It's definitely helpful when there is a logical pattern like that. In cases where there is a phrase it gets a little more complicated and I might have to use one of the programs suggested above. 

@eakwarren, I found Wave Candy in my FL Studio plugins and it worked. I think I need to watch some tutorials and practice at it a bit though. I found with many of the examples I used (like a long phrase from the Symphonia 3 textures), there were frequency spectrums all over the place and it was a little hard to discern what was going on. 

@Trash Panda, thanks for the suggestion on Scaler 2 as well. I haven't tried that option yet, but I think it might be helpful to discern the chords in a phrase. Are you able to add that on in the effect chain and use it to detect the audio (not midi) coming from your Kontakt instrument? Or do you need a wave file to import?

Thanks again to all for your help!


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## Living Fossil (Sep 17, 2021)

@Owen Smith : Just be aware that all computer based solutions lack insight in what's going really on inside of a texture and therefore, in some cases, will give you wrong results.
"Using a scale" in real music doesn't mean to stick to the 7 notes. There might be chromatic alterations, situative leading notes etc. etc. 
If a note in a melody belongs to a scale (or is a chromatic alteration) depends on different aspects.
In chords, a note might be a passing note and not a chord note. 
The function of a specific note in a specific context is not absolute, but context dependent.
So, even if you try using some automatic solution, keep two things in mind: 
1) the suggestion of the automaton might be wrong. 
2) on the long(er) run, developing the hearing gives you much faster and better results.


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## Owen Smith (Sep 17, 2021)

Living Fossil said:


> @Owen Smith : Just be aware that all computer based solutions lack insight in what's going really on inside of a texture and therefore, in some cases, will give you wrong results.
> "Using a scale" in real music doesn't mean to stick to the 7 notes. There might be chromatic alterations, situative leading notes etc. etc.
> If a note in a melody belongs to a scale (or is a chromatic alteration) depends on different aspects.
> In chords, a note might be a passing note and not a chord note.
> ...


Thanks @Living Fossil! That is really helpful! I can see what you're saying and how the end result of automatically detecting the "chord" or "scale" that I have been looking for could be misleading and not really representative of what is actually happening musically. I think the output I found with Wave Candy is a good example of how the frequencies being detected in a texture or phrase do not all belong to one simple triad. I'm so used to thinking in relatively simplistic terms such as E or Am7, etc that I often miss the beautiful complexity that you described. In the long run, I'd really like to develop a better ear for the chromatic alterations, passing notes, and situative leading notes as you mention. In the mean time, I think tools such as Wave Candy, Scaler 2, etc will be helpful for me to better understand the composition of the music that I am using and creating so that I can develop my ear and ability to think outside the simple progressions/chords I'm used to using. Thanks again for your advice! Cheers!


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