# Will this technology provide the ultimate headphones?



## Udo (Mar 4, 2017)

First announced mid last year, release is now imminent as substantial funding has been obtained.

It uses otoacoustic emission, a test that's used for screening newborn babies for deafness. It's used here in a slightly different way. What actually happens is that when you send different sounds to the ear, it vibrates the membrane, which vibrates the three bones, which stimulates the cochlea. The cochlea then sends an electrical signal to the brain.

But it also sends a very faint signal back through those three bones to the membrane, which vibrates it slightly. That's used by these headphones.

http://newatlas.com/nura-headphones-review-interview/43792/
http://musicfeeds.com.au/news/aussi...unding-record-futuristic-adaptive-headphones/


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## Udo (Mar 4, 2017)

They're currently available for AU$219 (~US$170), but that price keeps increasing until the release (likely in April).


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## Vik (Mar 5, 2017)

What does this method find that a normal listening test finds?


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## Udo (Mar 5, 2017)

Vik said:


> What does this method find that a normal listening test finds?


http://newatlas.com/nura-headphones-review-interview/43792/


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## Hans-Peter (Mar 5, 2017)

Don't forget Harman/AKG/JBL TruNote technology. I believe it does the same and has been available for one year. Works well on my JBL Everest Elite 700.

Such a shame that Harman moved production of AKG away from Austria to Eastern Europe ... ********


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## Hans-Peter (Mar 5, 2017)

Oh ... and let's not forget the Smyth Realiser, which does the same with any headphone of your choice and even incorporates your HRTF (acquiring a perfect spatial model of your hearing by recording impulse responses at the position of your pinna capturing up to 16 individual sound sources in a room - you can simulate the acoustics almost to 100 percent - excluding vibrations induced by a sub, of course).


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## Udo (Mar 5, 2017)

I think you missed the essence of the Nura technology. It's far more sophisticated.

It uses otoacoustic emission, a test that's used for screening newborn babies for deafness. It's used in a slightly different way. What actually happens is that when you send different sounds to the ear, it vibrates the membrane, which vibrates the three bones, which stimulates the cochlea. The cochlea then sends an electrical signal to the brain.

But it also sends a very faint signal back through those three bones to the membrane, which vibrates it slightly.

"It's not a reflection off the eardrum, it's actually generating a sound corresponding to what you're hearing. We have a microphone in the main earpiece that picks it up. What that signal contains is basically an indication of your sensitivity to the frequencies of sound we're feeding into each of your ears. Once the system knows what your hearing curve looks like, it then equalizes the signal to each ear, to lift the levels of those frequencies you're not hearing so well."


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## chimuelo (Mar 5, 2017)

The question is what patents are being used.
With prices as low as I'm seeing it tells me no IP is being shared.
Must be in house patents, yet I can't find any.


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## passsacaglia (Mar 5, 2017)

SUPER cool!!! As an audiologist I support the product as well as their arguments. Haven't tried them but could be really something!
Definitely!
@chimuelo - interesting!!


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## muk (Mar 5, 2017)

It looks interesting. Lets assume the science and technology behind is sound, there are still open questions for me:

1) the individual profile will be of little use if the headphone itself/the drivers are no good. Can't be decided without having heard them. (apparently there is a 30 day money back guarantee, so you can buy to try).

2) say the otoacoustic emission test detects a dip in your hearing at a certain frequency. The individual profile would compensate for it with a boost at that frequency. Can a permanent boost damage your hearing and make you hear even less at that frequency over time?

3) your Nura-headphones compensates for your individual hearing to present you with a more or less flat frequency response. But that's not the way you hear in everyday life. You are used to hearing through the filter of your personal frequency sensitivities. Could that make it difficult to get used to the Nura?


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## passsacaglia (Mar 5, 2017)

I see this somehow like a 3-way monitor headphone.
Don't know about the EQ and boost of certain freq's, but I'd say as long as the overall volume isn't too loud it's ok.
Any headphone with the listener playing the music too loud would be a risk damaging your ear.
Anatomy: the higher frequency band in your cochlea is placed closest to the beginning/or end, and takes the first damage.
The lower frequencies are placed closest to the central pathways in the inner ear (cochlea) and will be protected the most.
That's why we all loose the higher freq's first with age (think of a hi-cut filter) and all that's left is the bass tones aka the vowels.

So, the small boost in (pref the high freq's) would not be That large or to an OK level, and you control the volume yourself. 
But if you know your hearing curve and it looks pretty good (very flat around the same dB's on the test), the headphone will not (probably) do too much more than the headphone's original output EQ. Then we have all the Beyer's, AKG's and Senn headphones with different freq curves, They will do more and if your hearing is damaged somehow, the brand's curve will be even more colored due to your hearing loss in certain frequencies.

So those with freq loss (musicians, dj's, construction workers, ppl exposed to noise etc), will benefit more from those I'd say.
But ofc, even if you hear pretty good, your audiogram/hearing test will look different and maybe some frequencies that are being boosted will make the sound from your tracks+headphones sound Much much better. 
= but, this is because of the Nura's EQ boost which I'm not too familiar with. So it's more about, "ok, do they boost it to match your better frequencies" or how linear is the boosting of the "fallen frequencies". 

Highly interesting though. 

So @muk : 
1: if you already have a perfect linear hearing --------- super straight, in my opinion it won't do much to your listening, then you can just boost it with increasing your level. Some certain dips, ofc it Can make a difference, impossible to tell how much since I haven't tried them. 
2: as long as the levels aren't too boosted, it will be ok. But as we all know, constant exposure to sounds (and especially boost in higher freq's at a Very high level or just in the long run will ofc damaging your hearing somehow).
3: I'd say maybe ofc, because it Could generate a "new sound", but the differences wouldn't be that much, perhaps only to the Better.
Everything takes a bit of time to get used to, hearing aids provide a metallic robotic sound, but all my previous patients said they get used to it and they adapt to the signal/sound. Maybe the sounds you hear without the Nura's will sound "bad" to you  
Haha but, can't tell the differences...try and see! But since they use otoacoustic em's, that will be The best EQ ever made for your ears, 100%. maybe there are sounds you hear that if certain freq's will get boosted, you will prefer the eq'ed Nura sound for a more comfortable listening, just as cutting bad freq's in your eq.


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## Hans-Peter (Mar 5, 2017)

Udo said:


> I think you missed the essence of the Nura technology. It's far more sophisticated.



Well, TruNote does it differently, but with the same objective. Paper of the research can be found here: http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17698&rndx=609154

More importantly it does so without having to rely on uncomfy inear buds - which can cause health issues if you're like me and have very narrow ear canals.

One thing that TruNote does (and, to my knowledge this is not accounted for in Nura - but please correct me if I'm wrong) is to include the pinna in the equation. Meaning, TruNote should be a good choice for presenting binaural content as it can calculate the most important ingredient of your HRTF, the pinna, which is responsible for all those little alterations of the sound spectrum that enable spatial hearing on the frequency domain. For sound engineering this bears significance as you are not limited to bilateral split in headphones, but in fact can convincingly simulate an acoustic environment. Unfortunately, Harman has yet failed to market the technology to pro users. Honestly, I think Harman pretty much ignores this market as a whole - as inspiring and forward thinking their consumer products are, as boring and uninspired they appear in the pro area. But that's just my personal opinion.

Apart from these points, we don't know yet how Nura fairs against TruNote, which could indeed be less accurate due to the pure over-ear design of the Everest and N90 series - that's subject for future comparisons). But there is indeed very good reason to believe that Nura may be more accurate on that end. However, perceived linear response is not the only thing that makes a good instrument for sound engineering as is explained above. And when it comes to eq'ing , and this applies for TruNote as much as Nura, phase is another issue to pay attention to.

Looking forward to Nura, in any case!


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## Fab (Mar 5, 2017)

passsacaglia said:


> SUPER cool!!! As an audiologist I support the product as well as their arguments. Haven't tried them but could be really something!
> Definitely!
> @chimuelo - interesting!!



If you get them we would like to hear your thoughts....

puns aside, that's quite true. What you have to say about what it is/isn't is something I'd be interested.


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## zacnelson (Mar 5, 2017)

Udo said:


> They're currently available for AU$219 (~US$170), but that price keeps increasing until the release (likely in April).


It looks like they're only available for $391 now (the pre-order price)


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## chimuelo (Mar 5, 2017)

My audiologist works at VA in Nashville.
I have another one in Vegas when I first got UEs 16 years ago.
I'm going to see what they think as they would know about this.
I haven't had an audio graph in years but my wax has all but disappeared.
Maybe once a year I get some.
I'm so use to 24 drivers it would be a big change for me.
But I'd love to have regular headphones again.
Just don't like anything I've tried over the years, but then they weren't customized for my hearing using audio graphs.
Used these for the last month.
No wax.....cleaner than a lean dick dog.


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## Udo (Mar 5, 2017)

zacnelson said:


> It looks like they're only available for $391 now (the pre-order price)



Sorry people. I had posted this on another forum last year, when the kickstarter/fundraising was announced. Realized yesterday I'd forgotten to mention it on VI-C and listed it without re-checking all the details.

Nevertheless, it's a very interesting product. Mass production and distribution expected by August 2017.


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## chimuelo (Mar 5, 2017)

April 2017?
So realistically in 2019 as I always add 2 years to kickstarter projects...


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## zacnelson (Mar 5, 2017)

I've been reading reviews of the JBL TruTone headphones and nobody seems terribly enthusiastic about that feature (although in other ways they could be good headphones for general purposes). I really hope the Nura technology performs this magical task more effectively than the JBL tech


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## passsacaglia (Mar 5, 2017)

My buddy has supported them at kickstarter so he's gonna get them by August this year! 
Haha a long time but, at that time I will prob try'em out and see what they can do to my ears.
Will also attach my audiogram as soon as I get it.


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## muk (Mar 6, 2017)

Thanks passacaglia. Another interesting feature is the use of in-ear and overear design both. At the least it will be good for isolation, but I can imagine that it offers benefits for soundreproduction as well.


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## URL (Apr 23, 2017)

Are there any headphones today that works for mixing or is it impossible to manufacture these ....for some reason?


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## Michael Antrum (Apr 23, 2017)

I am completely deaf in one ear (from birth), and even when converting headphones to mono I find them next to useless for music applications.

I would be very interesetd to try these out and see if there is any benefit in my situation.


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