# Authentic Guitar, new concert guitar library for Kontakt: stunningly real............



## Erik (Mar 6, 2008)

A top classical concert guitar built in 1991 by Paulinho Bernabe (Madrid) was used to produce this first class Kontakt library in pristine 24 Bit quality called *Authentic Guitar*, produced by an ew company *Musesamples*. Recorded with the best equipment suited for classical guitar this library gives the user all possible tools for premium realizing classical guitar emulation. A great classical guitar player with superb tone was involved in this project.

What does this library offer?

Unprecendented level of sound quality 
Overall warm natural sound 
Natural sustain and release in all samples 
Short loading time of the full library 
Superabundance of basic, usual articulations 
Many effects and unusual articulations 
Different tone colors in basic instruments 
Round Robin script where necessary 
Great expressiveness where needed 
Superb portamento under many circumstances 
Special flamenco techniques and sounds 
Possibility of constructing any strummed chord 
Sits very well in any mix 
EQ tweakablity in many instruments (CC12/13) 
Well thought-out order of instruments in the full “Authentic Guitar ” bank 

The team of *Authentic Guitar *has built an affordable and moreover all-in-one package of high quality without minutes of loading time, but without any compromise in sound. 
*Authentic Guitar *contains amongst others basic registrations as 'normal', dolce, metallico, first position, espressivo. Almost any other imaginable articulation or sound type had to be involved. This is where this specific library comes in now, after months of painstaking recording and editing. Just to name a very few of the overwhelming possibilities of *Authentic Guitar*:

first position combined with the full e-string
construct any possible chord on six strings with punteado technique 
molto espressivo 
staccatissimo 
rasgueado on strings dgbe 
open strings as chord in different ways of playing, even also as harmonics in XII VII V and IX 

Even the difference in sound between the guitars of Julian Bream and John Williams has been approximately (!) virtually realized: now you can have your own Together again III! With your own creativity you can produce all kinds of harmonies in different techniques like rasgueado, without the need for 1 Gb chord samples.

Visit http://www.musesamples.com for stunning MP3 demos, list of instruments and general info on this product. 

Review: ".......I listended to the demos. It sounds amazingly natural. The best Concert Guitar I ever heard......."


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## Ed (Mar 6, 2008)

??? ~o)


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## synthetic (Mar 6, 2008)

Scavenger hunt? I love these.


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## gregjazz (Mar 6, 2008)

Are you talking about Franz's new guitar library?


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## midphase (Mar 6, 2008)

Spam!


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## Erik (Mar 7, 2008)

Apparently something went wrong (how I don't know, just pushed the submit button after contributing the message). Sorry for any inconvenience!

But this should be the topic:

*Musesamples' Authentic Guitar, stunningly real..........*
A top classical concert guitar built in 1991 by Paulinho Bernabe (Madrid) was used to produce this first class Kontakt library in pristine 24 Bit quality called Authentic Guitar. Recorded with the best equipment suited for classical guitar this library gives the user all possible tools for premium realizing classical guitar emulation. A great classical guitar player with superb tone was involved in this project.

*What does this new library offer?*
Unprecendented level of sound quality 
Overall warm natural sound 
Natural sustain and release in all samples 
Short loading time of the full library 
Superabundance of basic, usual articulations 
Many effects and unusual articulations 
Different tone colors in basic instruments 
Round Robin script where necessary 
Great expressiveness where needed 
Superb portamento under many circumstances 
Special flamenco techniques and sounds 
Possibility of constructing any strummed chord 
Sits very well in any mix 
EQ tweakablity in many instruments (CC12/13) 
Well thought-out order of instruments in the full “Authentic Guitar ” bank 

Authentic Guitar is an affordable and moreover all-in-one package of high quality without minutes of loading time, but without any compromise in sound. 

Authentic Guitar contains amongst others *basic registrations* as 'normal', dolce, metallico, first position, espressivo sampled per two up to four semitones. We found out that multisampling per semitone doesn't give automatically a better virtual sound: it results often into unnecessarely longer loading times. 
A few examples of this pristine sound result can be heard on the music demo page. But there is more to know. Almost *any imaginable articulation *or sound type had to be involved. This is where this specific library comes in now, after months of painstaking recording and editing. Just to name a very few of the overwhelming possibilities of Authentic Guitar:

_first position combined with the full e-string 
molto espressivo 
staccatissimo 
rasgueado on strings dgbe 
open strings as chord in different ways of playing, even also as harmonics in XII VII V and IX _

Even the difference in sound between the guitars of Julian Bream and John Williams has been approximately (!) virtually realized: now you can have your own Together again III! With your own creativity you can produce all kinds of harmonies in different techniques like rasgueado, without the need for 1 Gb chord samples.

With the patch Full range 1st position and full e string without nail you're even able to emulate a historical 19th century guitar (like a Panormo). Please visit the website for beautiful demos, a full list of patches and more info on http://www.musesamples.com.


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## IvanP (Mar 7, 2008)

Sounds pretty nice! I specially liked the Tarrega demos 

Nice, you sampled a guitar from Madrid  who was the player?

Best, 

Iván


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## Rob Elliott (Mar 7, 2008)

IvanP @ Fri Mar 07 said:


> Sounds pretty nice! I specially liked the Tarrega demos
> 
> Nice, you sampled a guitar from Madrid  who was the player?
> 
> ...




Ivan - I am clueless about spanish (or really any guitars) but do these sound a tad bit muddy (250-300hz)? Maybe that is normal - could it be the IR or EQ settings used?


Thanks for you input.


Rob


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## Thonex (Mar 7, 2008)

Very nice Erik. 

Whoever played this has great tone. I used to be a classical guitar performance major (many years ago)... and tone is something that takes a long time to develop.

Are the legato and slides sampled from every note sliding into every other not... like a VSL style legato?

Thanks,

T


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## Aaron Sapp (Mar 7, 2008)

Recording sounds a bit muddy. How about a dry demo?


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## Bruce Richardson (Mar 7, 2008)

Rob Elliott @ Fri Mar 07 said:


> Ivan - I am clueless about spanish (or really any guitars) but do these sound a tad bit muddy (250-300hz)? Maybe that is normal - could it be the IR or EQ settings used?



This is a pretty characteristic (and nice) sound. I think the reverb may be picking up a bit much of that range, but to my ears, the sample set sounds good...nice performance enhancements.


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## IvanP (Mar 7, 2008)

Rob Elliott @ Fri Mar 07 said:


> IvanP @ Fri Mar 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds pretty nice! I specially liked the Tarrega demos
> ...



Hi, Rob, I'm clueless as well as which eq should be the best...(or any eq) :lol: 

But I agree, some of the demos sound a bit wet, maybe it's due to the flash compression...who knows. I checked the website and they have some dry demos as well...

I am hearing the same problem that happens to every guitar sampled (some out of context attacks which may sound synthy sometimes) but in others (as in the 1st Tarrega demo sound pretty convincing). The tone seems very warm and some of the fast articulations from the demos sound pretty good.

I'm a piano player, and though I live in Spain I'm not an expert in guitar either. I was wondering if any of the folks at the national conservatory (we're not that many) in Madrid did the playing .

In any case, if you are looking both for a classical nylon guitar sound and a genuine spanish licking (not the harsh cliché which is more...mexican oriented I would say..., but rather a more subtle one), I think this is the closest sample set I've heard from the demos...of course, nothing compared to a real player...same as with strings. 

Rob, If you need to listen to any current / classical spanish guitar music (in order to avoid the cliché but remain with a "spanish feel" I'll be happy to point you to were to look 

Best, 

Iván


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## Hardy Heern (Mar 7, 2008)

Crikey! This is another absolutely stunning instrument. Put me down for the Tarrega demos too.....Marvellous! 

Just EXTRAORDINARY!

Frank


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## tradivoro (Mar 8, 2008)

Yeah, this is pretty amazing realism... My next question is, how much programming do you have to do to get that much realism??? 

the high b on leyenda -asturias is a tad loud... on the villalobos, a little bit of ritard at the very end, for realism... But great demos.. 

On another note, which has always been in my mind, doesn't the beginning of lagrima remind you of blackbird...


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## Erik (Mar 10, 2008)

Hi,

First of all: thanks for the compliments here above and other comments by the way. To answer your specific question about programming: to get a high realism level first of all the duration of notes should be conform the way a guitar normally does. That can result in some specific cases in rather time consuming midi programming. The Villa-Lobos study No.2 was such an example: careful attention for this aspect was necessary. But further programming I did in Sibelius with the ~P and ~C1 commands after loading the full library as was a breeze. 
In this respect it works a bit like the VSL instrument player with their x- and y parameter. Dependent of your sequencer or notation program things can be easy or less easy, plus of course your own skills in those software programs. The portamento patch is the only one which can take some more time to implement, because situations can be quite different (basic tempo of the piece etc.).
For example, the Bach/Rachmaninov Prelude was a matter of 20 minutes (again, like all other demos) in Sibelius, routed to Tracktion as host program. In other sequencers/notation programs things can be more difficult maybe or just the other way around, there is always some experimenting, more commonly: with whatever library, I think).
So if you have the overview of instruments right before, it’s generally only a matter of tweaking note durations, applying patches with the ~P and ~C1 commands and tweaking velocities.
Then you have the audio mastering part. That’s it.

For more info you could download the midi files on the website
http://www.musesamples.com/test/mp3demos/musicdemos/midifilesofsomemusicdemos.html
Any further questions will be answered with pleasure.

Erik


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## Rob Elliott (Mar 10, 2008)

Folmann @ Mon Mar 10 said:


> I like the demos and it shows potential. String instruments are generally very complicated to sample, so I appreciate the attempt. However I noticed a few things that you may want to consider for improvement:
> 
> 1. The sound is a bit muffled, but it can be course corrected with other convolutions and EQ. However I miss fret-noises in the mix, which makes the demos less convincing for me.
> 
> ...



Good points Folman - I think if they were to implement these suggestions they would really have one outstanding product. (when I use Realguitar - I often find myself increasing the fret and release sounds).


Rob


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## Erik (Mar 10, 2008)

Hi Folmann,

What exactly do you mean with _fret noise_? Do you mean the kind of _string noise _as a result of the horizontal movement of the land hand, which causes (if not done properly, the way students are taught nowadays in avoiding these annoying accompanying sounds) a very high squeak? If so, it’s just included in the library, but not implemented enough apparently in the demos. If I haven’t understood you correctly, please let me know.

Concerning the _EQ_ matter: on of the problems defining the right EQ is that in a certain way there is no such thing. I mean, that the range from over-polished to a very “naily” sound is to be found everywhere in the (real) guitar world. Players like Narciso Yepes (who actually played for a long time on a 10 string Bernabe) and Alirio Diaz always used the thinner and more transparent sound, whereas another and younger generation just tries to flatten the sound by playing very polished and intimately: David Russell, Hubert Käppel and many, many others.
I do remember, that even in the process of choosing a new concert guitar, it was possible for me to say that a specific guitar was better for Bach or on the contary for let’s say Albéniz and Barrios. So: one sound won’t ever cover the needs of virtual musicians maybe.

In reply to your request to have some more a _guitar body sound _I would like to offer you the following demo with two motives (one lower, the other higher) twice: first version without any verb at all, second version with the kind of convolution that you are hopefully looking after.
In my point of view it gives the sound more ‘body-boom’, that you get if playing apoyando (like for example with players like Pepe Romero) and in this respect there is much more life in the tone. But if played a guitar with the tirando technique there isn’t generally so much ‘body-boom’ involved.
You’ll find it on http://www.musesamples.com/MP3/VI/ConvolVerbGuitarBody.mp3.

Concerning the Asturias, I must say: yes indeed there could have been more customizing. And not always I have used the script for avoiding the ratata notes: some players are capable to have about the same attack in 100 (fast) notes, so that have been a choice actually. Using a RR-script sounds eventually not better in this respect.

Anyway, thanks very much for your contribution and eagerly waiting now for your comments in these matters.

Erik


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## Erik (Jun 9, 2008)

Hi Folmann (and others),

Please check again www.musesamples.com for new developments at Musesamples.
We produced a *VSTi version *at the moment, which will be available within a few weeks. This plugin has some challenging features: no loading time , different basic instruments and many many more........

We have also rearranged (in Midi terms) most of our our demos now plus added two new items: _Sevilla _by this new VSTi version. 
You have your string release now in many variations, as you can hear! 
More important: we implemented a.o. more velocity layers and adjusted overall sound where necessary.

Also the Kontakt users will benefit by this in due course: we'll offer a free update with the new samples and nki's.

More on our website..........

regards,

Erik Otte


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jun 9, 2008)

Hallo Erik (or should I say Hola'!?)

I think this is a pretty convincing quitar library (being or having been a quitar player myself).

One question that popped to my mind while listening to the demo:

is there a way to "kill" the notes completely to mimick the way how melodic lines are partly being played on a single string?

The quitar has (like the orchestral strings) a quasi monophonic playing style.

If you play e.g. E-F#-G on the D string, you should have a monophonic legato line, where the E and F# should be completely "stopped" when the next notes are played.

From the demo I get the impression that notes can ring on slightly while next notes are played, but it's hard to pinpoint it (also due to the reverb). Maybe I'm wrong (my ears are also completely stuffed with wax, some I'm having a serious hearing loss at the moment). :| 

Curious how you would tackle this phenomenon.

It would IMHO greatly enhance the realism if this can be done with your VSTi!

All the best and success with this product!

Peter (Dutchie as well)


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## Ashermusic (Jun 9, 2008)

Nice sound! I hope you make a AU version.

It amazes me however that so many clamor for developers to add things in that for years engineers have worked hard to either eliminate or at least minimize, like more fret noise.

The goal should not be to trick the audience into thinking it is the real instrument. It should be to make it sound good.


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## Synesthesia (Jun 9, 2008)

Folmann @ Mon Jun 09 said:


> Ashermusic @ Mon Jun 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice sound! I hope you make a AU version.
> ...



:lol:


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## Ashermusic (Jun 9, 2008)

Folmann @ Mon Jun 09 said:


> Ashermusic @ Mon Jun 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice sound! I hope you make a AU version.
> ...



Well there is real, flaws and all, and there is real without the inherent flaws accentutated.

Real, schmeal, good is best.


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## Synesthesia (Jun 9, 2008)

Ashermusic @ Mon Jun 09 said:


> good is best.



But best is better.

(o)


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 9, 2008)

Library has nice tone but the it feels lifeless compared to a real player.

I would also lose those midi files if I were you, people are going to get the wrong impression about the library.


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## poseur (Jun 9, 2008)

tough crowd, here!, but:
i agree w/the (hopefully constructive) criticisms;
the demos are very unconvincing to me.

no RR in fast repetitions or tremolo?

no realistic & noticeable, musically relevant "noise" elements?

no indicators for the choice of synonomic notes via string & position?
(this is a key element of expressivity on the guitar,
relating directly to personal decisions vis a vis both
timbre &, critically, pitch/tuning.....)

do the provided harmonics account for both enharmonic & inharmonic available ones, and individuate between true & false?

lastly, for now:
for me, no guitar sample simulator
--- esp. where featured prominently within a piece ---
can truly be complete without a clever capability to provide
some degree of controlled-randomising of note-individuated polyphonic vibrato.

still, the samples themselves sound good, to me!

d


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## Erik (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi all,

It’s not very relevant to reply your comments individually and also unneccesary time consuming, so I have chosen for this option: I’ll try to ‘ward off’ your comments in this single reply. Again, forgive me for grammatical mistakes or using perhaps wrong words, I am not a native speaker, as many of you are, I guess. 

First of all we could discuss here what is “real” or “unreal”. This could result in a kind of philosophical dispute. But to more on stay on earth I would like to refer to my listening experiences during my life: very contrasting players and guitars(!) have convinced me of the fact, that something as the “one and only” concert guitar sound or performance or interpretation doesn’t exist. I have enjoyed concerts of others with many mistakes and all kind of string noises, squeezes etc., but if music has “soul” it is OK for me. On the contrary I have attended concerts with impeccable playing by the best virtuosos. Again reversely, if the performance lacked the same “soul” it didn’t mean anything to my at all, musically. 
So, given the fact that many live performances can lack conviction, life in the Midi world is even tougher. Maybe it’s just impossible to add this component into our midi productions given the state of hard- and software as it is now. 
As a real guitarist myself (simply just check www.erikotte.nl) I realize how incredibly many parameters are involved to approximate a real performance: tempo changes, tone colouring, right choice of patch and velocity etc.. First of all: the basic sample material should match the idea of how a concert guitar should sound like anyway.

So, after have struggled with many other libraries (sorry to say), we intended to make a library with as much as possible the diversity of this instrument. But, like Gary Garritan states in his booklet of his new and exquisite Steinway product: “nothing will ever surpass (the experience of) the real Steinway instrument” (this is not a literal quote). 
Let me makes this clear: I never had the intention to make something better than an instrument in our real world. Nevertheless it is a challenge to produce something that puts ‘emulating’ such an top class guitar towards higher levels. 
For me the classical guitar has an infinite number of colors, that’s a wonderful fact for real players, but a frustration for midi experts. From the start we intended to make a kind of ‘clever’ library as a compromise between the issues I mentioned hereabove.

That’s why we also intended to present many basic patches and as much as possible all kind of techniques however, we even offered a guitar body IR to give users the possibility to adapt the basic sound to their preference, again as much as possible. 

So: speaking of string release sounds, fret noises etc.: every user of our product is free to use it or not. In fact I know a few virtuosos who can play without almost any accompanying noises, but as mentioned before, this doesn’t mean on forehand that the listener will have the best musical evening in life. Referring to the library: I would have been an omission to leave it out.
Perhaps a patch could be added with ‘missed notes’ (let’s call them “plop” notes) in the future to imitate a lower technical level of concert guitar playing. But as far as I know: nowadays the overall level of playing is just really outstanding and incomparable with let’s say 30 years ago (when I started my carreer as guitarist): I mean: sometimes you even don’t hear the slightest mistake or unwanted noise during twice 45 minutes (how do they do this?)

Referring to what I mentioned hereabove, I would like to ask something now at some readers on this thread: what do you all mean with for example “demos are very unconvincing to me” or “I would also lose those midi files if I were you, people are going to get the wrong impression about the library”? “no realistic & noticeable, musically relevant ‘noise’ elements?” My questions are as follows: Don’t you hear a guitar at all? Don’t you agree with the elaboration of the midi version of the pieces? Don’t you hear string noises anywhere? Too much string noise?

I’ll also try to answer here some of the questions, that have been posed by _Poseur_.

*Q: *_no RR in fast repetitions or tremolo?_ 
*A: *There is a random choice option (3 groups) in one the Kontakt nki’s in (of course the Kontakt version), which often suits better the needs of the user than the rather strict Round Robin procedure, with always that annoyingly same order. Furthermore it is easy to use all kind of anti-machine gun scripting (which we have implemented in many nki’s). For an average user of Kontakt it is very simple to construct fully customized alternations between patches.
In the VSTi version, there is not such an opportunity yet, in the meantime the user can work out things with keyswitching: with so many basic patches it must be a breeze to change sounds.

*Q: *_no indicators for the choice of synonomic notes via string & position? _
A: I’ll put a scheme (in jpg format) on our site. But except for the first position and full e-string patch, which speakes for itself I hope, most basic patches (espressivo, staccato etc.) have been made following this scheme:
E6: notes e f g a; A5: notes b c d e f; d4: notes g a b; g3: notes c d; b2: notes e f g a; e’1: notes b c d e f g a b.

*Q:* _this is a key element of expressivity on the guitar, relating directly to personal decisions vis a vis both timbre &, critically, pitch/tuning....._
A: This would result in a huge at least 30 Gb library, sorry, but that is just not our intention at the moment. Furthermore I have noticed so many times after recordings during my active part as guitarist, that even with the top of the bill microphones, that many splendid and expressive fingerings were lost in a way after all, in the whole process of analogue- to microphone- to digital/harddisk.

*Q: *_do the provided harmonics account for both enharmonic & inharmonic available ones, and individuate between true & false? _
A: As far as understand this question well: all natural harmonics on XII, IX, VII and V are part of this library. As you know perhaps: only the harmonics on XII and V are in ‘pure’ and ‘equal temperament’ tuning the same. So left the harmonics on VII and moreover IX: they produce only ‘pure’ notes (i.e. according to the pure tuning: so the IX on the sixth string is much lower than the same pitch on the high e-string 4th fret for example). Tuning your real life guitar while using the harmonics VII is actually a bad option because this conflicts with the equal temperament.

*Q: *_some degree of controlled-randomising of note-individuated polyphonic vibrato. _
A: If you mean the timing and/or quantity of the vibrato: I never have seen a library with that possibility without artefacts; not even at EWQL, VSL. There is a script for Kontakt (SIPS), that produces customized legato/portamento and even vibrato, but eventually it didn’t touch my standard actually. So the only option is sampling all kinds of vibrato, but combined with overkill of sonic possibilities this will result in the library we just doen’t want to make (see hereabove).

Just must have noticed in the meantime, that I have taken your comments very seriously. Please have in mind however, that Musesamples is a relatively small company: we are willing to invest all our efforts, love for music and sound, energy into what we feel that may be important for others in the future. 
Because we are not a huge commercial centre, this fact makes it also possible on the other hand to offer a very client friendly starting point, that I personally not often have encountered before and after purchasing products from other companies.
Since our existence for only three months we have implemented many requests by users already and last but not least we have carefully read comments (also yours!!) on several forums, just to improve our product.

I hope that I have made clear in this reply what I personally see as the “context”of things.
Wish you all the best, keep on going with your comments however!

With regards,
Erik Otte


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## Thonex (Jun 10, 2008)

Erik @ Tue Jun 10 said:


> *Q: *_some degree of controlled-randomising of note-individuated polyphonic vibrato. _
> A: If you mean the timing and/or quantity of the vibrato: I never have seen a library with that possibility without artefacts; not even at EWQL, VSL. There is a script for Kontakt (SIPS), that produces customized legato/portamento and even vibrato, but eventually it didn’t touch my standard actually. So the only option is sampling all kinds of vibrato, but combined with overkill of sonic possibilities this will result in the library we just doen’t want to make (see hereabove).



Hi Erik,

I think Dynamitec (you can search for him on this Board) has written a polyphonic vibrato script designed for guitar. I think he was offering it for very cheap and then maybe for free. You may want to contact him because that may be a nice addition to your library. Incidentally, he is a great scripter/programmer.

Good luck.

T


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## david robinson (Jun 11, 2008)

hi,
incorporate a standalone(AU plugin) verson of kontact and you've got a sale.
DR9.


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## Erik (Jun 12, 2008)

What a pity we can't offer you this version right now! 

Don't you use FXpansion's wrapper?
http://www.fxpansion.com/index.php?page=31

We have a download version to try things out. 
http://www.musesamples.com/library/0000009aab0c64501/index.html (http://www.musesamples.com/library/0000 ... index.html)

We are considering an AU version, but that will take some time. We'll let you know when we start with this.

Regards,
Erik


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## Erik (Jun 12, 2008)

Peter Roos @ Mon 09 Jun said:


> Hallo Erik (or should I say Hola'!?)
> 
> I think this is a pretty convincing quitar library (being or having been a quitar player myself).
> 
> ...




Hi Peter,

Thanks for your kind words. There is a way to "kill" the notes completely to mimick the way how melodic lines are partly being played on a single string. We just improved the release settings back to 20 ms. Furthermore an 80% note duration seems generally to be enough for legato playing.
So we made a remake of the first two demos on the MP3 page ('Sevilla'and the 'One note samba'.

Furthermore we added a Patches page in the MP3-demo section, without *any* reverb this time. You can enjoy for example a nice mix of patches for emulating fast scales.
http://www.musesamples.com/mp3demos/patches/.

Regards, Erik

and the best with your hearing loss (what a terrible "thing")


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