# How to get a warm and "emotional" piano sound



## Andrajas

Hello guys!
Im working on a cue were I want a warm and emotional sounding piano, but I just can't get it right. It sounds to harsh for me. When I listen to reference tracks like pianos in trailers etc, they sound so big , yet so warm and it doesn't get muddy or harsh. 

So I wonder, do you have any tips on what I should think about when mixing pianos?

Cheers,


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## dannymc

what piano libraries are you using?


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## kunst91

not to be cheeky (kind of)...but have you tried emotional piano?


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## rayinstirling

I have the emotional piano library but.........I can't find an emotional piano player


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## kunst91

On a more serious note, one thing to focus on is the difference between volume and dynamics. Often times composers program the velocity of pianos too high so they can cut through, but what happens in the upper dynamic levels is the piano gets pingy and biting. If you program the velocity lower but still keep the piano louder in volume relative to your background stuff it will achieve the warm sound you are thinking of. You can also mess with effects like eq and saturation


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## kunst91

This is the best sounding piano I've heard in a trailer in a while


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## Pasticcio

NI's The Giant sounds very big & warm to me. Especially with lots of reverb.
I'd second what kunst said about velocity aswell.


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## guydoingmusic

Soundiron - Emotional Piano
Impact Soundworks - Pearl Grand
Impact Soundworks - Celestia (there are a couple of pianos in there that are fantastic)
NI - Alicia's Keys
8dio - 1928 Grand

All different flavors.

Also... one that sounds fantastic that I do not yet own is Cinesamples - Abbey Road Upright.


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## kunst91

Also the Malmsjoe Acoustic Grand, pretty sure rctec has said that he wrote a lot of Interstellar on this one. "Dream Piano" in particular is a great patch for the sound you're after


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## sleepy hollow

This one is very special: http://www.strezov-sampling.com/products/view/Belarus.html

Spend 20 bucks, adjust your filters and EQ, get emotional. 

I hope I'll find some extra time next year. Wanna make my own custom piano lib. Way too much high gloss stuff out there.


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## Andrajas

dannymc said:


> what piano libraries are you using?


I am using NI - Alicia Keys. Great piano, just think I may tackle it wrong.



kunst91 said:


> On a more serious note, one thing to focus on is the difference between volume and dynamics. Often times composers program the velocity of pianos too high so they can cut through, but what happens in the upper dynamic levels is the piano gets pingy and biting. If you program the velocity lower but still keep the piano louder in volume relative to your background stuff it will achieve the warm sound you are thinking of. You can also mess with effects like eq and saturation


Thanks, great tip! Will try this out. 

Thanks guys for the other replies. I have not the money atm to spend on a new piano hehe, Just looking for some tips on mixing the pianos to get best result


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## ReMoFuMu

Maybe try this free piano

http://store.precisionsound.net/shop/amore-grand-piano/


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## Jonas.Ingebretsen

It's almost always about the type of piano you're choosing. Sure reverb and EQ will make it more soft and warm. Try "Emotional Piano" or Cinesample's Piano. Btw IMO EW Piano Gold pianos are hard and not soft.


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## Nick Batzdorf

In my opinion kunst has the best answer.

Yes different libraries sound different, but you can get a smooth, warm sound from all the good ones. To me the answer isn't always just to run out and buy something - even though I like sample libraries as much as everyone.


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## rpaillot

kunst91 said:


> This is the best sounding piano I've heard in a trailer in a while




I've the feeling it's the Malmsjo that is used in this trailer.

With a "shimmer" type reverb ( valhalla shimmer is a good verb for this )


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## kunst91

rpaillot said:


> I've the feeling it's the Malmsjo that is used in this trailer.
> 
> With a "shimmer" type reverb ( valhalla shimmer is a good verb for this )



Just got shimmer myself, love it so far


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## KEnK

The other night I wrote a Chopin-esque piano piece.
I was trying a couple of different libs to see what worked best.
By accident I ended up hearing & liking 2 of them at once.
Gonna experiment w/ this a bit.
Tonight I'll try one w/ and one w/o the pedal.
I think I'll have to carefully shift some of the attacks though.
We'll see how it goes.
It might be a good idea, the sound was very rich

k


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## steinmann

KEnK said:


> The other night I wrote a Chopin-esque piano piece.
> I was trying a couple of different libs to see what worked best.
> By accident I ended up hearing & liking 2 of them at once.
> Gonna experiment w/ this a bit.
> Tonight I'll try one w/ and one w/o the pedal.
> I think I'll have to carefully shift some of the attacks though.
> We'll see how it goes.
> It might be a good idea, the sound was very rich
> 
> k



For something with a Chopin sound you can try the Fazioli Ebony piano. I've been using this one and I never heard a piano that sounds so good at low velocity.

http://www.imperfectsamples.com/website/Samples/fazioliconcertgrand/index.php


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## KEnK

Thanks for the tip


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## jneebz

FWIW, you can make most piano libs sound soft/emotional yet very "present" or forward in the mix using lower velocity layers (as kunst91 pointed out above) and a good compressor. Also play with the 200-300Hz freq range. Just my experience...

-Jamie


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## dannymc

do any of you guys experiment with doubling of the piano patches or is it better to just use single lines and process? i thought this might be a trick to help get a fuller sound but i'm finding i'm getting this out of phase sound shift slight echo if i try to layer two lines playing the same notes especially if they are the exact same sample?


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## Joram

You could try a very warm sounding reverb.


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## Guffy

dannymc said:


> do any of you guys experiment with doubling of the piano patches or is it better to just use single lines and process? i thought this might be a trick to help get a fuller sound but i'm finding i'm getting this out of phase sound shift slight echo if i try to layer two lines playing the same notes especially if they are the exact same sample?


Sometimes i use one piano for the low keys (The giant is great for this) along with a more emotional piano for high keys. i normally don't double everything with 2 pianos, because in my experience it sounds odd and introduces other problems, unless you manage to find the perfect combination and process them right.


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## dannymc

> Sometimes i use one piano for the low keys (The giant is great for this) along with a more emotional piano for high keys. i normally don't double everything with 2 pianos, because in my experience it sounds odd and introduces other problems, unless you manage to find the perfect combination and process them right.



hey Fugdup yes i do this myself up to now, just wasn't sure about the double pianos method. good to see you have the same experience.


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## Vin

rpaillot said:


> I've the feeling it's the Malmsjo that is used in this trailer.
> 
> With a "shimmer" type reverb ( valhalla shimmer is a good verb for this )



That was my first thought when I heard it. I'm 98% sure that Valhalla Shimmer is used here. The sound itself (piano) is nothing special IMO, but any solid piano library played softly in combination with Shimmer will sound great.

This one is great as well and free (it's for Reaktor, though): http://boscomac.free.fr/?p=stellar


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## KEnK

dannymc said:


> do any of you guys experiment with doubling of the piano patches or is it better to just use single lines and process? i thought this might be a trick to help get a fuller sound but i'm finding i'm getting this out of phase sound shift slight echo if i try to layer two lines playing the same notes especially if they are the exact same sample?


Did you see my post earlier in this thread? (#17)
You'll need to not use the same piano Library for doubling,
and of course not all libraries will match up nicely.
In the above experiment I was combining Alicia Keys w/ Piano in Blue.
Except for one section it seemed to match very nicely-
Then when I reduced the "finger attack" in Alicia, it seemed to take care of that problem.
Also tried a couple experiments by using a dry sound of one or the other library and I did one w/ the sus pedal removed, 
but in fact after Steinmann's tip of the Faziola, (which I have but sort of stopped using) I may just go w/ that.
One thing, I'm getting good results by just mixing a little of one lib in.
They don't need to be equal in volume.
I could see that 2 pianos simultaneously could cause a lot of problems.
Maybe I just came upon a happy accident.

k


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## Lawson.

The last time I needed a warm piano sound, I layered low velocity (but turned up) EWQL Pianos with low velocity The Giant and put some heavy reverb from QL Spaces.


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## jneebz

dannymc said:


> do any of you guys experiment with doubling of the piano patches or is it better to just use single lines and process? i thought this might be a trick to help get a fuller sound but i'm finding i'm getting this out of phase sound shift slight echo if i try to layer two lines playing the same notes especially if they are the exact same sample?



I constantly layer piano samples...but 99% of the time with an Omnisphere patch  Usually I'm looking to add a new timbre so won't use the same sample...and you're right it can sound funky if you do! A great reverb can also make a stale piano patch come alive. I just got Valhalla Room and have been blown away by it's ability to sweeten my sounds! 

FWIW, here's a short cue with piano where I added a very sharp attack layer (Omni patch) and brought the piano up front in the mix:


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## dannymc

Jneebz Cue sounds great. thanks for the tips.


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## charlieclouser

Malmsjo piano all the way. Limit your velocities so you never hear the loudest layer and you're good. For me, that's the only piano library that goes soft and dark enough without sounding indistinct and muddy. Another trick is to transpose the samples down a few steps, or even as much as an octave - this makes everything slower and darker and can help a lot on libraries that sound too "plinky plonky". On Kontakt, just adjust the main transpose knob up by the volume slider down a few steps, then transpose your MIDI regions or controller keyboard upwards by the same amount. I often use Malmsjo down an octave and it's murky and lovely.


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## kunst91

charlieclouser said:


> Malmsjo piano all the way. Limit your velocities so you never hear the loudest layer and you're good. For me, that's the only piano library that goes soft and dark enough without sounding indistinct and muddy. Another trick is to transpose the samples down a few steps, or even as much as an octave - this makes everything slower and darker and can help a lot on libraries that sound too "plinky plonky". On Kontakt, just adjust the main transpose knob up by the volume slider down a few steps, then transpose your MIDI regions or controller keyboard upwards by the same amount. I often use Malmsjo down an octave and it's murky and lovely.



Never thought about using transpose for piano libs, thanks for the tip. I'm going to try that on the malmsjoe.


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## Greg

I still really like Hammersmith. It's hit or miss for some people but the amount of tweakability is really nice. Most important thing is to get your velocity curve right and stick to the lower velocities. EQ some of the mud out at 300 - 500 hz, then boost 8-10k+ for some extra harmonics. UA puigtec eq is perf for that. Then run it really gently into a compressor of choice. I like the UA 1176.

Sometimes I also like layering Piano in Blue + Malmsjo + Hammersmith for a really rich sound.


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## Andrajas

Really great tips from you guys!  Thanks!


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## H.R.

Spitfire PP004 Felt Piano is magic for me.


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## dannymc

its funny, one of the midi orchestration books i'm reading at the moment in the piano section talks about frequency boosts in certain bandwidths such as 100-200hz for low end, 1.4khz to 1.5khz for mid and attack etc but doesn't talk about cutting frequencies. i'm finding i'm just adding mud boosting at a lot of the frequencies mentioned and instead i'm getting better results by cutting and using my ears. is there two schools of thought on this subject or something?


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## chimuelo

Malmsjo and Rosewood are quite warm with lower velocity. They get brighter at higher velocity. Both very dynamic performers.
But the most tweakable by far is PianoTeq Pro. 
Not sure if this is emotional but Emerson had an engineer place his sound from close Mic to distant by making the wetness on a AMS reverb go from dry to 100% wet.
I use this trick on TC Fireworx with an expression pedal with CCs hard panning simultaneously.
Adds another level of dynamics.
Especially since I use low velocity dry then high/brighter velocity wet.


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## Will Blackburn

I found my new fav which is like a cleaner emotional piano without the noise problem. The imperfect samples Steinway, with close mic only. Leave 'Hollywood' fx off. Reduce the velocities to something like this






Add your favourite Comp. Then add some body in the 150-200 range. Add some highs to taste but not much. Last in chain use credland audios stereo savage or a similar stereo widener. Maybe add reverb to taste.


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## Silence-is-Golden

steinmann said:


> For something with a Chopin sound you can try the Fazioli Ebony piano. I've been using this one and I never heard a piano that sounds so good at low velocity.
> 
> http://www.imperfectsamples.com/website/Samples/fazioliconcertgrand/index.php


I have it, and the sound is indeed very special.
If only it was somewhat less imperfect it be a very good piano lib.
The problem for me is that there are regions where you only hear hammers or other 'anomalie's' in p or pp and then that is what gives away its sampled. Too imperfect for me therefore.


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## steinmann

Silence-is-Golden said:


> I have it, and the sound is indeed very special.
> If only it was somewhat less imperfect it be a very good piano lib.
> The problem for me is that there are regions where you only hear hammers or other 'anomalie's' in p or pp and then that is what gives away its sampled. Too imperfect for me therefore.



Agreed. I stopped using this in the meantime because it simply has too much noise in the mixture.


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## Vin

Silence-is-Golden said:


> I have it, and the sound is indeed very special.
> If only it was somewhat less imperfect it be a very good piano lib.
> The problem for me is that there are regions where you only hear hammers or other 'anomalie's' in p or pp and then that is what gives away its sampled. Too imperfect for me therefore.



Yeah, me too, completely replaced it with Piano in Blue which has been my go-to piano since ever since I got it. Piano in Blue + free Spitfire Felt Piano and I really don't need anything else for that warm, cinematic sound. Both work amazingly well when dry and also for that shimmery, reverberated washed sound.


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## Sarge

guydoingmusic said:


> Soundiron - Emotional Piano
> Impact Soundworks - Pearl Grand
> Impact Soundworks - Celestia (there are a couple of pianos in there that are fantastic)
> NI - Alicia's Keys
> 8dio - 1928 Grand
> 
> All different flavors.
> 
> Also... one that sounds fantastic that I do not yet own is Cinesamples - Abbey Road Upright.



+1 for the 8Dio 1928 Steinway D, that's my go-to for emotional. You have to make sure the velocity stays low though.


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## synthpunk

TX Charlie for the transpose tip trick

Vin I also use the free Spitfire Labs soft piano I layer it with the UNA Corda and it's pure bliss and plays quite nice as well

After testing both I actually found Valhalla Shimmer to sound better than Eventide blackhole go figure

[="Vin, post: 4022423, member: 9042"]Yeah, me too, completely replaced it with Piano in Blue which has been my go-to piano since ever since I got it. Piano in Blue + free Spitfire Felt Piano and I really don't need anything else for that warm, cinematic sound. Both work amazingly well when dry and also for that shimmery, reverberated washed sound.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


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## ComposerWannabe

Can we talk about how do you get this? I'm not buying this is only the sound of piano. Well there are reverbs... I'd say at the very least two of them. But what else? EQ'ing? To what degree?

Plus there are differences between the pianos. I mean mic'ing of them. The one plays the melody gets miced closer and it's fader turned up. I just generally like the sound of Nils' piano. Another good example is here... 

Very, very intimate. How about some tape simulation. When you think about this warm sound you can't help but recall the old recordings like this one, which Nils used for a compilation project:  (You can skip to 2 minute mark for the song)


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## synthpunk

Nils uses a combination of things to get his sound design piano starting with a full warm vintage piano I believe he has a Bechstein in his Berlin Studio w/ cotton and felt damping materials, warm tube vintage sounding large diaphragm condenser and Cole's ribbon mics, vintage Telefunken tube microphone preamps, Pultec eq's and vintage compressor / limiters

Closest thing you could get commercially would probably be the olafur arnalds tool kit which includes his own bechstein piano which is pretty close to Nils or Nils own Una Corda piano that was sampled by Native Instruments although that is a different Beast sonically


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## ComposerWannabe

So what you're saying is his sound derives from vintage gear (bundle rather) other than ITB stuff. Which is something I get.


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## Sarge

synthpunk said:


> Nils uses a combination of things to get his sound design piano starting with a full warm vintage piano I believe he has a Bechstein in his Berlin Studio w/ cotton and felt damping materials


Yeah, if you watch the first video from the beginning you can see what looks like the practice felts down on the upright piano. That's also what causes the "brush on a snare drum" noise/texture in the mix.


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## Andrew Souter

I've had great success with Ivory II American-D + B2, which is the combination used for almost all of my piano work here:

https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter

such as:





or more textural/minimal (but you must forgive the strings at the end as I never had the time to replace the temp Kontact/Komplete default strings with a better library.)



or hybrid electronic remixes:



I can share my B2 settings if people are interested...


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## Ashermusic

Play warmly and emotionally. I have at least a half dozen sampled pianos that I feel I can do that with.


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## ComposerWannabe

Andrew Souter said:


> I've had great success with Ivory II American-D + B2, which is the combination used for almost all of my piano work here:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter
> 
> such as:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or more textural/minimal (but you must forgive the strings at the end as I never had the time to replace the temp Kontact/Komplete default strings with a better library.)
> 
> 
> 
> or hybrid electronic remixes:
> 
> 
> 
> I can share my B2 settings if people are interested...





Andrew Souter said:


> I've had great success with Ivory II American-D + B2, which is the combination used for almost all of my piano work here:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter
> 
> such as:
> 
> 
> 
> or more textural/minimal (but you must forgive the strings at the end as I never had the time to replace the temp Kontact/Komplete default strings with a better library.)
> 
> 
> 
> or hybrid electronic remixes:
> 
> 
> 
> I can share my B2 settings if people are interested...



I love the sound you achieved. But don't you think they are rather ultra-realistic compared to Nils' sound? Which has a rather ethereal warm quality to it.

I think my answer isn't ITB. Rather at those things you have pointed it out.


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## willf_music

Andrajas said:


> Hello guys!
> Im working on a cue were I want a warm and emotional sounding piano, but I just can't get it right. It sounds to harsh for me. When I listen to reference tracks like pianos in trailers etc, they sound so big , yet so warm and it doesn't get muddy or harsh.
> 
> So I wonder, do you have any tips on what I should think about when mixing pianos?
> 
> Cheers,



Assuming you start with decent piano samples (which are easy enough to come across). I suggest applying this technique: [  ] and then insert an eq before this and mess with to your hearts content.


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## JTJohnson

willf_music said:


> Assuming you start with decent piano samples (which are easy enough to come across). I suggest applying this technique: [  ] and then insert an eq before this and mess with to your hearts content.



Quick question, can this be done inside the reverb plugin if it has built in Eq? i'm sure the Lexicon stuff does


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## JTJohnson

H.R. said:


> Spitfire PP004 Felt Piano is magic for me.


I was wondering when this would get a mention. I bought the soft piano Labs version and I'm in two minds whether to by the 'felt piano' or the 'emotional piano'. Any experience with the latter as well?


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## marclawsonmusic

JTJohnson said:


> Quick question, can this be done inside the reverb plugin if it has built in Eq? i'm sure the Lexicon stuff does



The whole principle of the Abbey Road trick is the filter the signal on the way IN to the reverb. You can do that with any DAW EQ.

I think most of the built-in EQs on reverbs filter the signal on the way OUT. But I might be wrong about that...

There is some debate as to whether filtering the signal on its way IN or OUT provide essentially the same result, but I am inclined to think that less signal on the way in gives you more control on what comes out of the reverb. Again, I might be wrong, but that's what my ears tell me.


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## LamaRose

The Olafur Toolkit felt with the cole ribbon will get you very, very close to the Nils sound... and of course, Olafur's sound is is built-in, lol.


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## H.R.

JTJohnson said:


> I was wondering when this would get a mention. I bought the soft piano Labs version and I'm in two minds whether to by the 'felt piano' or the 'emotional piano'. Any experience with the latter as well?


Yeah, I also have Emotional Piano but I prefer Spitfire PP004 Felt Piano, don't know why but it's warmer to me.


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## IoannisGutevas

The best tip i have ever heard for a good piano sound came from Danel James which i think he said he heard it from an interview from Harry Gregson Williams.Use blackhole from Eventide on your piano and you are golden! I got in love with the sound from the moment i first tried it. I use the Cinematic Studio Piano. With blackhole the sound is unbelievable!


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## guydoingmusic

If you really want a warm piano...


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## marclawsonmusic

guydoingmusic said:


> If you really want a warm piano...



You've got the 'warm'... but did you get the 'emotional' part?


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## Chandler

marclawsonmusic said:


> You've got the 'warm'... but did you get the 'emotional' part?



I think most people would get emotional if you did that to their piano.


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## JTJohnson

LamaRose said:


> The Olafur Toolkit felt with the cole ribbon will get you very, very close to the Nils sound... and of course, Olafur's sound is is built-in, lol.


Do you know how the Olafur felt piano compares to the Gwilym Simcock felt piano?


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## synthnut1

Go on YouTube and check out the walkthru for Spitfire's Felt Piano ....Good info here ...


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## sazema

Chandler said:


> I think most people would get emotional if you did that to their piano.



Yes, and I think complete question is answered now


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## marclawsonmusic

I have a couple of pre-made pianos (samples + FX) for this sort of thing and recorded a short passage as an example.

Galaxy Vintage D
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26088429/Soft%20Piano%20-%20Galaxy%20D.wav

ArtVista Virtual Grand Piano
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26088429/Soft%20Piano%20-%20AV%20VGP.wav

To me, this is what 'warm and emotional' sounds like... that 'David Banner walking away' sound. I think you can get this with most any sampled piano, but need to add some FX.


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## Kaan Guner

marclawsonmusic said:


> I have a couple of pre-made pianos (samples + FX) for this sort of thing and recorded a short passage as an example.
> 
> Galaxy Vintage D
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26088429/Soft%20Piano%20-%20Galaxy%20D.wav (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26088429/Soft Piano - Galaxy D.wav)
> 
> ArtVista Virtual Grand Piano
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26088429/Soft%20Piano%20-%20AV%20VGP.wav (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26088429/Soft Piano - AV VGP.wav)
> 
> To me, this is what 'warm and emotional' sounds like... that 'David Banner walking away' sound. I think you can get this with most any sampled piano, but need to add some FX.



These sound really nice? Is FX chain for the both pianos the same?

And what is your FX chain?


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## marclawsonmusic

I applied some EQ to the ArtVista, but just tweaked the settings of the Galaxy D (no EQ).

Then, I applied some delay and sent everything to the Valhalla Room reverb. I think I am using one of Den's presets for this - the Lexicon Hall.


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## willf_music

JTJohnson said:


> Quick question, can this be done inside the reverb plugin if it has built in Eq? i'm sure the Lexicon stuff does


I am so sorry I have not gotten around to replying earlier. But yes I would say you could. But you can also chain things in series.


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## Flaneurette

I love the TAL Reverb 4 specifically for Piano: https://tal-software.com/products/tal-reverb-4

It's very diffuse/wide, great for dreamy pieces.


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## Ashermusic

marclawsonmusic said:


> I have a couple of pre-made pianos (samples + FX) for this sort of thing and recorded a short passage as an example.
> 
> Galaxy Vintage D
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26088429/Soft%20Piano%20-%20Galaxy%20D.wav (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26088429/Soft Piano - Galaxy D.wav)
> 
> ArtVista Virtual Grand Piano
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26088429/Soft%20Piano%20-%20AV%20VGP.wav (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26088429/Soft Piano - AV VGP.wav)
> 
> To me, this is what 'warm and emotional' sounds like... that 'David Banner walking away' sound. I think you can get this with most any sampled piano, but need to add some FX.




We are all so different, Marc. I don't hear either of those as "warm." I hear "lonely."


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## Nick Batzdorf

I haven't read this thread, but to me emotion comes from the music and playing. A "warm" sound means it's full and lush, i.e. it doesn't have the thin, brittle midrange sound that's the hallmark of lousy sampled pianos.


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## Joram

Mix secret: a bit of Roland Space Echo on a warm and emotional piano.


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## pranitkhedekar

this guy's piano sound is much similar to Olafur Arnalds piano sound.


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## AdamAlake

Use The Maverick with a nice amount of tape compression - you can try this snapshot I made https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzWRT4_sL7xpODZnQzZJM01JVlE


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## Kaan Guner

pranitkhedekar said:


> this guy's piano sound is much similar to Olafur Arnalds piano sound.




Yes, you are right. It's veeeeery similar. But do we have any idea what makes the sound? And can we achieve that through VST and FX chain?


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## pranitkhedekar

Kaan Guner said:


> Yes, you are right. It's veeeeery similar. But do we have any idea what makes the sound? And can we achieve that through VST and FX chain?


I am not an expert in this kind of stuff, i am also trying to figure out how to get this sound without real piano and effects. but you can try this,
If you have emotional piano from Soundiron you can get close to this sound. there are two knobs for controlling Highs & the lows of the piano, they call it Tone=Highs and Body=Lows. lower the tone and increase a little bit of body to get some low end also add some delay, reverb, and overdrive (to get warm sound).
Cheers

Edit: Don't forget to use sustain pedal for this sound


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## re-peat

Lowering the highs too much will result in a merely muffled pianosound, which is, I think, not really desirable either. And if you raise the lows at the same time — especially with something like Soundiron’s Emotional — you end up with a muffled and very boomy pianosound which is certainly not very attractive (and impossible to mix too).

An idea might be to delete all the velocity layers of the piano except the lowest one, and then expand that lowest layer so that it covers the entire available velocity range. Very easy to do in Kontakt (and the Emotional isn’t a locked library), it only takes a minute or so and you’re all set. (Works with other pianos too. I tried a few.)

The only remaining problem is that you’re looking at quite a lot of noise in certain samples, but clever EQ’ing can help with that.
Add a bit of reverb, compress moderately, play some simplistic pseudo-emotional music, and it’ll sound *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/LowVelPiano.mp3 (something like this)*. Not exactly the same sound as the Marchal-example, but roughly in the same sort of neighbourhood, no?

_


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## pranitkhedekar

re-peat said:


> An idea might be to delete all the velocity layers of the piano except the lowest one, and then expand that lowest layer so that it covers the entire available velocity range. Very easy to do in Kontakt (and the Emotional isn’t a locked library), it only takes a minute or so and you’re all set. (Works with other pianos too. I tried a few.)


Could you please tell how to do this? I am new to Kontakt and I don't know that much stuff.
Thanks


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## re-peat

*(1)* Open the Kontakt editor (by clicking the wrench button in the left-top corner of the instrument’s GUI).
*(2)* Go to the ‘Mapping Editor’. In the area that has all the ‘green rectangles’ (the zones), select all of these zones EXCEPT the bottom row. Selecting is done by simply dragging over the zones. A selected zone turns from green to yellow.
*(3)* Delete everything you’ve selected, so that all that remains are the zones at the bottom.
*(4)* Select these remaining zones, and you’ll notice that one of them is automatically highlighted. That’s the zone to put your cursor over: you’ll see it changing into a different cursor with which you can drag the top edge of the zone all the way to the top of the zone window. All the other selected zones will have their top edge moved accordingly. However …
*(5)* … in the Emotional, not all the bottom zones have the same height, so, after dragging the top edges of the lot upwards, you will see that not all of them have reached the top of the zone window. Which means that, as a final step, you’ll have to individually adjust zones, making sure that they all line up with that top edge.
(By the way: the height of a zone indicates its velocity range. If you’ve done the above correctly, you should end up with all the zones having a velocity range from 1 to 127.)

And that's it.

_


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## AdamAlake

re-peat said:


> *(1)* Open the Kontakt editor (by clicking the wrench button in the left-top corner of the instrument’s GUI).
> *(2)* Go to the ‘Mapping Editor’. In the area that has all the ‘green rectangles’ (the zones), select all of these zones EXCEPT the bottom row. Selecting is done by simply dragging over the zones. A selected zone turns from green to yellow.
> *(3)* Delete everything you’ve selected, so that all that remains are the zones at the bottom.
> *(4)* Select these remaining zones, and you’ll notice that one of them is automatically highlighted. That’s the zone to put your cursor over: you’ll see it changing into a different cursor with which you can drag the top edge of the zone all the way to the top of the zone window. All the other selected zones will have their top edge moved accordingly. However …
> *(5)* … in the Emotional, not all the bottom zones have the same height, so, after dragging the top edges of the lot upwards, you will see that not all of them have reached the top of the zone window. Which means that, as a final step, you’ll have to individually adjust zones, making sure that they all line up with that top edge.
> (By the way: the height of a zone indicates its velocity range. If you’ve done the above correctly, you should end up with all the zones having a velocity range from 1 to 127.)
> 
> And that's it.
> 
> _



Can you post a comparison of the sound with and without this procedure?


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## pranitkhedekar

re-peat said:


> *(1)* Open the Kontakt editor (by clicking the wrench button in the left-top corner of the instrument’s GUI).
> *(2)* Go to the ‘Mapping Editor’. In the area that has all the ‘green rectangles’ (the zones), select all of these zones EXCEPT the bottom row. Selecting is done by simply dragging over the zones. A selected zone turns from green to yellow.
> *(3)* Delete everything you’ve selected, so that all that remains are the zones at the bottom.
> *(4)* Select these remaining zones, and you’ll notice that one of them is automatically highlighted. That’s the zone to put your cursor over: you’ll see it changing into a different cursor with which you can drag the top edge of the zone all the way to the top of the zone window. All the other selected zones will have their top edge moved accordingly. However …
> *(5)* … in the Emotional, not all the bottom zones have the same height, so, after dragging the top edges of the lot upwards, you will see that not all of them have reached the top of the zone window. Which means that, as a final step, you’ll have to individually adjust zones, making sure that they all line up with that top edge.
> (By the way: the height of a zone indicates its velocity range. If you’ve done the above correctly, you should end up with all the zones having a velocity range from 1 to 127.)
> 
> And that's it.
> 
> _


I'll try this, Thanks for the reply!


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## robgb

Remember the days when engineers had to deal with REAL pianos and make them sound "emotional?" Unless they had a variety of pianos to choose from, they were stuck with what they had. So how did they deal with it? EQ, compression, reverb and good engineering skills. If you have a single good piano plug-in (or a real piano), you should be able to do the same thing. Use your ears.


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## AdamAlake

robgb said:


> Remember the days when engineers had to deal with REAL pianos and make them sound "emotional?" Unless they had a variety of pianos to choose from, they were stuck with what they had. So how did they deal with it? EQ, compression, reverb and good engineering skills. If you have a single good piano plug-in (or a real piano), you should be able to do the same thing. Use your ears.



I would not go as far as to compare a sample library to the real deal in my arguments. Valid advice, but still.


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## VgsA

Pasticcio said:


> NI's The Giant sounds very big & warm to me. Especially with lots of reverb.


Totally, it's my go-to piano when it comes to warm and intimate stuff.


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## Tiko

Abel, that is a very nice piece! I use the Steinway D in Ivory II a lot for soft, warm stuff. It's also a lot about how you play it, like others have mentioned.


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## ComposerWannabe

I've found this thread hoping someone had any idea on getting Nils Frahm's general sound but especially from his Victoria work. But as far as I've seen no one came close. I think one thing to mention is it's not the piano sound itself but the fx and edit it has after it's recorded. I don't think Nils was improvisin with these end sounds on his piano. It was achieved at a later stage.


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## synthpunk

NI Una Corda

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keys/una-corda/

with a black hole style verb such as Eventide Blackhole or Valhalla Shimmer



ComposerWannabe said:


> I've found this thread hoping someone had any idea on getting Nils Frahm's general sound but especially from his Victoria work. But as far as I've seen no one came close. I think one thing to mention is it's not the piano sound itself but the fx and edit it has after it's recorded. I don't think Nils was improvisin with these end sounds on his piano. It was achieved at a later stage.


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