# Your favorite hardware synth?



## Daniel James (Dec 10, 2013)

Hey guys,

I am looking for some really gritty synth sounds for some projects on the horizon. I would love to hear which hardware synths you guys swear by. I currently have a Dave Smith Tetr4 and an Arturia MicroBrute. I am much preferring the MicroBrute right now...mainly because its just fun to use, having all the controls up on the front panel!

Also interested to hear if anyone has used a Virus (any of em) and what they think?

Sound demos would be great if you have them!

-DJ


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## bryla (Dec 10, 2013)

Since I got my relatively small doepfer a-100 I'm completely in love with it and I can't wait to expand. Once you go modular...


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## dinerdog (Dec 10, 2013)

I have a bunch of synths from over the years, but my old time favorite has been my old Virus C desktop thingy. I have yet to replace that vi-wise. Though Sylenth (to my ears) is the only one that's come close sound-wise. I would never sell it.


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## Greg (Dec 10, 2013)

I think we have similar tastes, and I've always loved the Virus. The onboard FX on it are the best I've ever heard on a synth.

Im selling my old Virus C 61 key, but I don't think it would survive a transatlantic flight from LA.


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## Daniel James (Dec 10, 2013)

Greg @ Tue Dec 10 said:


> I think we have similar tastes, and I've always loved the Virus. The onboard FX on it are the best I've ever heard on a synth.
> 
> Im selling my old Virus C 61 key, but I don't think it would survive a transatlantic flight from LA.



Haha yeah that trip would worry me too much...maybe buy it its own seat with bubblewrap and seatbelts 

I have been looking at a modular systems but so far havn't been super convinced. I know there are a few here who have them, I would love to hear the argument _for_ them! 

-DJ


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## blougui (Dec 10, 2013)

Had a Virus B, enjoyed it, great to tweak cause it's a nobby beast. But always found the tone/sound a tad "pale", like something missing in the high range. It shocked me at first, probably because I was on a Nord 2 - and God, Nord are brashy/brittle to my hears. Promised myself I would buy one someday - already had 2, both 2nd hand.
HZ swears by the Virus, as read here on VI C.
Mono wise, I've got a McBeth M3X : all sort of sounds to come out of this black Nessie, thanx to here extensive modulation options - though the LFO is a bit tricky, well, awkard to use as it's a Kenton with a menue ; but you could choose tu use 3rd VCO as LFO. 3 VCO's for deeeeep basses, SFX that go farther than your regular bleeps and clicks.


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## brojd (Dec 10, 2013)

I've owned quite a few hardware synths and romplers since the late 80's and one of the few I've kept that's at least "semi-modern" is the Roland V-Synth GT.
Always full of surprises and creativity it seems.

The only hardware-synths i've gotten more mileage out of is the Roland D-50 and the XP series that still seems to be an endless source of great sounds and inspiration. (I'm guessing that's thanks to Eric Persing more than Roland themselves though)

Also the DSI Prophet'12 had some really cool and unexpected features, but since I'm getting more and more pressed on time and mobility i sold it.


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## Giant_Shadow (Dec 10, 2013)

Favorite Hardware Synth you ask ? Why thats the Oberheim Xpander.







Recommending to you a Dave Smith Evolver (poly is nice), Nordlead 1, Moog, Virus Ti or Snow and Waldorf Pulse, and god help you if you get the modular bug.

Ive also had the Roland Integra 7 and Prophet 12 on demo this year , but they went back.

Btw, I have asked for a hardware VI forum and hope to hear more soon from the mods. _-)


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## SamiMatar (Dec 10, 2013)

My Virus Indigo is my personal go-to synth, and I also love the MiniBrute for same reasons you mentioned. 

I've found it more satisfying to create gritty sounds with VI's, but if you must go hardware I would recommend M-Audio's Venom, it's relatively cheap and surprisingly nasty.


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## JE Martinsen (Dec 10, 2013)

Daniel James @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> Hey guys, I am looking for some really gritty synth sounds for some projects on the horizon. I would love to hear which hardware synths you guys swear by.



Gritty sounds you say? That's an easy one - the Korg MS-20. That piece of engineering art can bark and growl like nothing else, but it also "sings" so beautifully it can make grown men weap. Versatility itself. I love it, and it's been my #1 synth for a quarter of a century. The key to that sound is the filters and of course the ability to overdrive them.. :twisted: 

A used MS-20 in mint condition is very expensive (as most vintage synths are), but the Korg MS-20 Mini is as good as it gets with new innards. And cheap as chips.

@ Giant_Shadow : You lucky man! Oberheim Xpander is a true monstersynth, which again is reflected in the second hand prices. Judging by the picture it seems to have been taken well care of!

I'm absolutely sure you're familiar with the MS-20 Mini, but I'm posting a link to the presentation video so anyone interested can have a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzRerrLhmx8

EDIT : Btw, the MS-20 is all over this track if you'd like to have a listen.

https://soundcloud.com/sweepmusic/sweep ... n-to-paris


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## Daniel James (Dec 10, 2013)

I have had my eyes on the MS-20 mini for a while, I wonder HOW dirty it can go?

-DJ


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 10, 2013)

Oberheim perhaps?

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep10/articles/tom-oberheim-sem.htm


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## JE Martinsen (Dec 10, 2013)

Daniel James @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> I have had my eyes on the MS-20 mini for a while, I wonder HOW dirty it can go?



Very dirty indeed, Daniel! 

As the engineers say (the same guys who developed the original!) they thought that it was crucial to get as much of the original components/circuitry as possible into the new Mini version to get that raw sound. I've tested it and it sounds just like the original, except for that little extra bite, which according to the engineers is because the components are new. So the good thing about the MS-20 Mini is that it will get better with age, just like a good wine!

This video interview of the guys puts a big smile on my face.. Talk about passion for your work! Such great guys! :D 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaA_GSNHJ6Q


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 10, 2013)

and that here might be useful:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar13/articles/spotlight-0313.htm


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## paulmatthew (Dec 10, 2013)

DJ , 

I don't have one yet but I really want to get a Virus TI Snow or Polar someday, a perfect hardware and software hybrid combo. Check out this guy's vids , he goes by SadowickProduction on You Tube . He's got quite a few Virus Ti Snow being used with Ableton Live in his videos. Here's his overview with some basic sounds:



The Arturia Minibrute sounds tasty and nasty too.


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## JE Martinsen (Dec 10, 2013)

G.R. Baumann @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> and that here might be useful:
> 
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar13/articles/spotlight-0313.htm



Holy smokes that Two Voice Pro is good looking!

Btw, Oberheim is also a good choice. They have a somewhat edgier and more "harsh" (in a good way!) sound than for example Moog. I haven't heard that Two Voice Pro, but I'm sure it can bark!


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 10, 2013)

JE Martinsen @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> G.R. Baumann @ Wed Dec 11 said:
> 
> 
> > and that here might be useful:
> ...



Yes it is! :D 

Having said that, on the analog front in general, check out the CODE

http://www.studioelectronics.com/products/synths/code/


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## G.R. Baumann (Dec 10, 2013)

Daniel James @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> I am looking for some really gritty synth sounds for some projects on the horizon.



Back to your original requirements, I would think the Boomstar 4075 offers the aggressive sonic potential you are looking for. Do check out the demos on thier website. Personally I'd prefer the boomstar to the minibrute any time.

http://www.studioelectronics.com/products/synths/boomstar/


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## chimuelo (Dec 10, 2013)

Here's Analog Grit from the 3 Oscillator SE-1. Waldorf Oscillators modulated by Ribbon controller.

http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/distorte ... ribboned-1

Here's DSP grit on Solaris. The lead patch is trying to emulate the way a Guitarist bends his B String up to match the pitch on his E String. Old Black Sabbath, Ted Nugent stuff.

http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/solaris-red-lined

Here's more grit from Solaris using old EMU 12bit Vox samples mixed with Waldorf Oscillators modulated by LFO.

http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/crystal-vox

More SE-1 grit and a doppler effect on Solaris.

http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/solaris-doppler-train

The Studio Electronics guys are fantastic with support and modifications too.
Their mother is the sweetest women to ever answer a support line too.


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## rayinstirling (Dec 11, 2013)

What about the Crumar Multiman and a little later the Korg MicroPreset


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## Ryan (Dec 11, 2013)

I would recommend a Moog, Sub Phatty with some extra routings (Moggerfogers) is a killer. Moog still got the best sounding filters around. The Pittsburgh Modular system is also very cool. Some nice creative ways of making sounds. And it fits perfect on the studio-table. 

http://pittsburghmodular.com/

Also check out: Analogue Solutions and their Telemark Synthesizer.

all of this price tags ain't that ill either. 

Side note:
I just blew some dust from a old microkorg from the 2002-ish. You could get some nasty sounds on a that too. 

Best
Ryan


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## eric aron (Dec 11, 2013)

depending on your budget of course:

the best above all hardware : Oberheim SEM pro, Studio Electronics ATC X or Omega 8 or Code, Moog Voyager, Dave Smith Poly Evolver, also John Bowen Solaris, and have a look at the monster GRP Synthetiser :D 

Intermediate level analog : Waldorf Blofeld and Pulse 2, Moog Sub Phatty and Minitaur, DSI Tetra and Evolver, Arturia Minibrute, Korg MS20, Virus TI2

VST's : ( don't rely then on fast snappy envelopes and real fat sound.. :( ) : Spire, Dune, Sylenth, Diva, Gladiator, the Arturia SEM emulation is nice also.


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## eric aron (Dec 11, 2013)

edit : Virus is of course Virtual Analog, as Blofeld


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## schroerob (Dec 11, 2013)

Daniel, for gritty sounds you should check the Korg MS2000/R - it's an amazing souning synth with lots of possibilites ...

http://www.vintagesynth.com/korg/ms2000.php

... also Waldorf Pulse (true analog synth) highly recommended!

http://www.vintagesynth.com/waldorf/pulse.php


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## dedersen (Dec 11, 2013)

JE Martinsen @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> This video interview of the guys puts a big smile on my face.. Talk about passion for your work! Such great guys! :D
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaA_GSNHJ6Q


What a wonderful video, thanks for posting that! Very interesting, and yeah, it really does put a smile on your face, doesn't it? 

As for the OP, I had a Virus C at one time that I really, really regret getting rid of. It was in some misguided swap-all-my-hardware-for-software phase I was going through. Mostly it was a good idea, but I really miss the Virus. Excellent sounds, and just so damn inspirational to play around with.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Dec 11, 2013)

You should definitely get a volca keys or bass. I got a keys as soon as they were released and can't stop playing with it. 
Hooked up to my mpk88, I have a three voice, full analog poly with 88keys for £120. Insane! 

And don't listen to the rafts of demos with people using the step sequencer to make awful acid house. It can do so much more than that.


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## Ryan (Dec 11, 2013)

schroerob @ 11/12/2013 said:


> Daniel, for gritty sounds you should check the Korg MS2000/R - it's an amazing souning synth with lots of possibilites ...
> 
> http://www.vintagesynth.com/korg/ms2000.php



I just saw one for sale here in Norway for a very good price: 438,24GBP

Maybe I'll buy it


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## Stephen Baysted (Dec 11, 2013)

Roland V Synth XT. You can import your own samples and mangle them too.


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## schroerob (Dec 11, 2013)

Ryan @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> schroerob @ 11/12/2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel, for gritty sounds you should check the Korg MS2000/R - it's an amazing souning synth with lots of possibilites ...
> ...



You won't regret it


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## lux (Dec 11, 2013)

wilx @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> You should definitely get a volca keys or bass. I got a keys as soon as they were released and can't stop playing with it.
> Hooked up to my mpk88, I have a three voice, full analog poly with 88keys for £120. Insane!
> 
> And don't listen to the rafts of demos with people using the step sequencer to make awful acid house. It can do so much more than that.



yeah, the Volcas are definitely in the list, pretty much interesting. I wonder how they compare to the Waldorf Rocket, which has also a nice paraphonic feature.

I've heard good things also about the DIY monosynths at Mutable Instruments.

I'm personally a fan of some of the old and cheap digital cheesy machines from the eighties and nineties, stuff that you can easy collect for a few bucks and sometimes they hide a few sonic gems inside. I personally use a lot my Yamaha TG500, as example, and here and there sounds out of glorious Korg and Roland romplers.


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## Ryan (Dec 11, 2013)

schroerob @ 11/12/2013 said:


> Ryan @ Wed Dec 11 said:
> 
> 
> > schroerob @ 11/12/2013 said:
> ...



Interesting. Well, I'm getting a Prophet 8 into the studio tomorrow. Need to see how that works before I decide.

EDIT: One more thing. How about bulding your own? I'm gonna do that when I get some days off before Christmas. 
check out:
http://lushprojects.com/lushone/


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## Polarity (Dec 11, 2013)

Virus B (the red one) for most is the warmest one of the Virus models.
You can find it at good price on 2nd hand market.

Virus series is one of the best synth onto you can find (or program by yourself) the Synthex Laser Harp sound used by Jean Michel Jarre.
Not so easy to program it directly sometimes, but hey, there's the video editor.

I don't have any analog, only digital and virtual analog:
last year I got three by 2nd hand market and I feel satisfied with them, non need other hardware.
Supernova2 and Roland D50 also are my go to hardware synths.
For the rest there is Omnisphere, with also Monark and Saurus now (have a look at it for vintage sounds...)


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## dedersen (Dec 11, 2013)

Polarity @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> Supernova2 and Roland D50 also are my go to hardware synths.


Interesting. I had a Supernova 2 at one point and found it a bit too bland and lacking in character somewhat. I never felt like I could do anything with it that I couldn't do just as well with software. Maybe I pushed the wrong buttons. 

Agree with the Virus series, you can't really go wrong with any of them I think.


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## bryla (Dec 11, 2013)

Daniel James @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> I have been looking at a modular systems but so far havn't been super convinced. I know there are a few here who have them, I would love to hear the argument _for_ them!
> 
> -DJ


The argument for them?

Build them and patch them anyway you want to! You want gritty, you buy gritty and patch them that way. Don't like the filter? Exchange it! Want a mixer that distorts, you can have one of those. Possibilities are endless.


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## Eric (Dec 11, 2013)

I get my grittiest synth tones from my Moog Little Phatty, with the filter overdrive knob cranked, and the filter poles set to 1.

My favorite mono synth in my studio is a Moog Voyager Old School. Favorite poly synth I own is the Alesis Andromeda.

Another suggestion - check out the Moogerfooger FreqBox - running any signal thru it can create some unique and potentially intense analog grit.

(Yes, I have a bias for Moog products)


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## Polarity (Dec 11, 2013)

dedersen @ Wed 11 Dec said:


> Polarity @ Wed Dec 11 said:
> 
> 
> > Supernova2 and Roland D50 also are my go to hardware synths.
> ...



Well, I got a Supernova just for its lack of character infact.
It makes it more usable to emulate some of old analogs... 
I loved its sound for more than a decade, so a few months ago finally I got one 2nd hand for a great price (after I missed one for a blew) and very near home: I was very lucky.


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## alexmshore (Dec 11, 2013)

I will give you my opinion on the Virus, it will hopefully help you out. I think although it sounds at some points as I may be being really negative towards it I am 100% not, they are f*cking amazing instruments, I am just trying to point out some of the things I do and don't like out of my experience. Anyway...

Using it...

I would say that my Virus Ti is the favourite synth out of my collection. It has good usability from the front panel, with a lot of knobs and functions being tweek-able right of the bat, although sometimes you do need to do some digging in the menus to get into the deeper stuff. The Virus Control plugin is also a nice tool for this, sometimes it easier to tweak the functions in there than on the unit itself. One other great thing is that you can actually use the unit as a audio interface too although I'd be willing to bet you already have one.

Couple of things to note - sometimes it can get clogged up with polyphony if your using all the effects and maxing out the unison as you would expect with any synth. Also it does have multi-output but you only get 3 outputs which is a bit limiting if you have more than three totally different sounds you want to EQ/Comp and process separately. I have the one of the original Desktop Virus TI's so some things like the polyphony would not be some much of a problem with the Virus TI2 as it has double DSP power etc.

The main issues I have are with the TI software. I use mine like the older models and just like to program on the unit and record it through my audio interface, most of the time I don't use the TI plugin. If I do, I use it to sculpt sounds and then save them to the hardware unit to record later.

The Sound...

The sound it has is just pure awesome, it has a LOT of character and can be pushed into brutality pretty easily! Its certainly a beast when you want it to be! Its also really versatile, you can also go completely the other way and get some very pretty sounds out of it - the phaser is just beautiful.

OK.. Now the TI bit...

The theory and idea behind it is the perfect combination of software + hardware, which I think is great, it was the reason I bought a newer TI instead of the old A/B/C models. However like most things - there are times when it works and is flawless (which is nearly all the time!), and then there are times when she doesn't fancying playing ball. I would almost say that this is part of its character haha but the USB Audio/TI can sometimes be a bit temperamental. She can sometimes be a bit of a b*tch and wont stay in sync which is annoying too.

Oh and also a couple of important things to mention is offline bounce is NOT supported - you can only bounce in real time (so no BIP in logic etc) so bare that in mind. Also it sometimes dictates the settings of your software, ie there are certain settings within your DAW that are 'recommended' and some that are necessary in getting the TI to work - for instance in logic my Process Buffer Range must always be on small otherwise she won't work. Although thats not a game killer its sometimes nice to be able to set it higher if I have a lot of software/plugins running within a project.

I will say that after a while you sort of know how to get it working within you system and like most things you find a stable release and stick with it. For instance I now know that it works better for my if I always sync it up with Virus Control outside of my DAW before I start a project. Then with the sync, you always start from the nearest bar and its fine.

There are somethings in which the TI integration comes in really handy for though. These are mainly utility like features - things like saving sounds, and transferring to banks, backing up and restoring. All great features I am glad to have so I don't have to mess around with SysEx software.

Overall...

Like I said at the start the Virus is a incredible piece of hardware I would totally recommend picking one up. The main things I feel let the unit down are the TI. However I am also really glad they put the TI in there, the majority of the time it works perfect and is a great extension of the hardware features, so by no means I am trying to bash Access on this. They have often helped me out with their great support and provide all users with regular updates. I often wish other synth makers would put some sort of TI into their products.

So yeah if I had to give you an answer without you mentioning interest in the Virus I would still say get a Virus! :D 

Hope this helps.


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## Luca Capozzi (Dec 11, 2013)

For great dirty and gritty sounds, analog wise, I can suggest the vintage MS-20, Octave Cat, Polivoks. I tried all of them and still own the old Korg. With some modified distortion pedals and some feedback loops you can get real madness out of it.

I also had the Virus TI Snow for a while. It's perfect in a mix, can be aggressive, but in my opinion can't be REALLY dirty. For that kind of sounds i'll stick on a software solution (like Zebra, Diva, Reaktor and such).. but for something really dirt, go vintage 

Cheers,
Luca


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## Celador (Dec 11, 2013)

I own a MiniBrute and I am very satisfied with its sound. However today I probably would have chosen the Novation Bass Station II. Some thoughts on "grittiness" in general: In my opinion the most dirty sounds do not come out of the box of any synthesizer. Instead resampling and heavy post-processing are the keywords here. Look out for "seamlessr" and his bass tutorials on youtube.


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## davidgary73 (Dec 11, 2013)

Another vote for Virus Ti and layering it with Zebra is fantastic. 

Here's are soundsets by Synthetic Solutions and Club X Sounds





Cheers


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## dedersen (Dec 11, 2013)

I really wish I could justify purchasing a Virus TI to myself...


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## dedersen (Dec 11, 2013)

Polarity @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> Well, I got a Supernova just for its lack of character infact.
> It makes it more usable to emulate some of old analogs...
> I loved its sound for more than a decade, so a few months ago finally I got one 2nd hand for a great price (after I missed one for a blew) and very near home: I was very lucky.


Ah, it's always lovely finding stuff you have craved for a long time. I really like the second-hand market for older synths, I must've gone through an entire room's worth of synthesizers by now. Once they get past a certain age the second-hand value seems to approach a relatively fixed value, so I find you can try out older synthesizers essentially for free this way.


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## blougui (Dec 11, 2013)

I forgot to mention :
Omega 2 and Omega 8, from Studio Electronics.
I've owned the two but had to sell them for financial reasons. I really miss the Omega 8, which could do gritty sounds thanx to it's modulation department. Bought it 2nd hand, both of them. Much more interesting than any VSTi's I've owned or tested - Diva is the one that comes closer.


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## dhlkid (Dec 11, 2013)

Virus Ti2


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## stonzthro (Dec 11, 2013)

+1 on the Virus front - I really like the thickness of the sound and the TI aspect is just awesome.

I just picked up a Slim Phatty and Novation BSII (which I wasn't sure I'd like, but it really is a great synth).

Daniel, please let us know what you go for!


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## Pschelfh (Dec 11, 2013)

From the synths I had (sold everything now) :

Gritty analog : http://www.analoguesolutions.org.uk/con ... eipzig.htm

Gritty digital : http://www.vintagesynth.com/waldorf/microwavext.php

Peter.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 11, 2013)

My favourite synth is +35 years old (SH-5), but I picked up the new Pulse 2 a week ago, and it's really, really good. Here's a little something I made with it:

[flash width=400 height=100 loop=false]https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/122930494[/flash]

https://soundcloud.com/ned-bouhalassa/f ... dorf-pulse


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 11, 2013)

Seems like Nick, from Sonicstate, likes the Pulse 2 a lot. Here's his review, hot off the press:


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## wst3 (Dec 11, 2013)

I have a couple of hardware synths that are still hooked up, needless to say, these are my favorites - largely because I know them, and, well, they are paid off<G>!

Of the bunch mentioned thus far I'd probably go with an MS-20, or the newer MS-20 mini as my first choice. They are so simple to use, and they sound great.

Next up would be a draw between the Oberheim xPander and the Roland MK-80 Super Jupiter, which is really only useful with the hardware programmer... which I do not own.

My favorite of the bunch is an ARP 2600, but it is not as easy to use as the others, and that's probably worth considering. Also, as they are old, they seem to suffer more than their fair share of hardware problems... which is not a lot of fun.

All the Moog and Dave Smith suggestions are also strong contenders...

Beyond that I'd say find something you can play with for real and see what you think!


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 11, 2013)

Those new MS-20's are definitely attractive at the current prices. However I don't think I could even bother since I have DIVA, which I just find so insanely analog sounding, inlcudes MS-20 components, very gritty, but all the benefits of plug-ins (saving in DAW etc.)

Oh and for anyone wishing they had a virus. Might be worth checking out Spire VST. Next version is supposed to chop the cpu consumption down too.


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## Giant_Shadow (Dec 11, 2013)

I have been a bit underwhelmed by DIVA and Zebra to be honest. But YMMV and I'm sure I'm spoiled in having real analog around.



Echoes in the Attic @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> Those new MS-20's are definitely attractive at the current prices. However I don't think I could even bother since I have DIVA, which I just find so insanely analog sounding, inlcudes MS-20 components, very gritty, but all the benefits of plug-ins (saving in DAW etc.)
> 
> Oh and for anyone wishing they had a virus. Might be worth checking out Spire VST. Next version is supposed to chop the cpu consumption down too.


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## synthetic (Dec 11, 2013)

I have an Alesis Andromeda, medium-sized MOTM modular, Super Jupiter, and others have come and gone. But the one I use on almost every track is my Minimoog. I have a SE MidiMoog rackmount of a vintage model D. If you can't afford a vintage one, go for the SE1 instead of the Voyager. Voyager was not so exciting to me, the vintage one seems alive and angry.  

Zebra gets close enough to the Virus for me and the DSI stuff is not so hot IMO.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Dec 11, 2013)

I just made an odd little thing with my korg Volca keys, while I faffed around with HZ Percussion to see if it could be forced into a hip-hoppish direction. All drums are HZ, all synths are volca keys. I rushed this together in about 90mins, but it was quite fun to do.

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F124405322&secret_url=false=false[/flash]


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## dpasdernick (Dec 11, 2013)

I know I'm supposed to get all squishy inside when we talk hardware... I've owned a ton over the years and my biggest regret is selling my Roland D-50 and not buying a minimoog when they went out of style for about 30 minutes but...

All of those cables, the messing around with pages of editing with a single knob, and most importantly... the fact that no matter how amazing these icons of the past are the sound is going to be played by some pimply faced Facebook addict who listens to that phenomenal $3000 vintage set of filters on his laptop speakers... 

PLUS... you can never get the stale beer smell out of some of these beauties that have been toured to death... (oh and the synthesizers as well )

If I want to hear real grit I just go to work and listen to everyone gnashing their teeth...

PS Daniel... where to you get all your money?  I just bought 5 8Dio libs and the wife has cut me off.. (and she says I can't buy anymore software either) Yowsa I'm on a roll...


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## Rich Pell (Dec 11, 2013)

SE CODE with the Fuzz switch is pretty great. Virus TI is also edgy ..


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## eric aron (Dec 12, 2013)

yes, Diva has got much praise, it deserves it as for a VST, but comparing it with an analog shows quickly the difference of level. enveloppes are slow, the sound is loose, lacking this extra meat and life.. 

as for example :

https://soundcloud.com/angelcrespo/ober ... m-take-one


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## eric aron (Dec 12, 2013)

synthetic @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> I have an Alesis Andromeda, medium-sized MOTM modular, Super Jupiter, and others have come and gone. But the one I use on almost every track is my Minimoog. I have a SE MidiMoog rackmount of a vintage model D. If you can't afford a vintage one, go for the SE1 instead of the Voyager. Voyager was not so exciting to me, the vintage one seems alive and angry.
> 
> Zebra gets close enough to the Virus for me and the DSI stuff is not so hot IMO.



lucky you.. yes, Voyager has less life, and I am also not so hot with DSI last Prophets, quite digital sounding.. I like so much more the Poly Evolver as an original and musical instrument

do you think Zebra is the best candidate to get close to Virus sound?


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## eric aron (Dec 12, 2013)

dedersen @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> I really wish I could justify purchasing a Virus TI to myself...



Virus is a good Va, but far overpriced and not up to date concerning its dsp


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## Polarity (Dec 12, 2013)

dpasdernick @ Thu 12 Dec said:


> I've owned a ton over the years and my biggest regret is selling my Roland D-50 and not buying a minimoog when they went out of style for about 30 minutes but...



I have a Roland D-550 (it was the second synth I bought) and the day it will break... sure I will hunt another one to buy.
It's all reprogrammed (very few original presets I kept on it) almost in Vangelis, Jarre, Tangerine Dream kind of sounds... and this synth played in my tracks almost everytime, soundtrack style included.

I didn't like the Voyager me too when I tried it, but I like the Poly Evolver and Prophet 08 instead.
Yes also I think the Virus TI is a bit overpriced nowadays, for that I got a Virus B.. for what I need was enough also without the adds of TI series.

In absolute the three favourite synths of mine are Yamaha CS80, Elka Synthex and ARP2600... 
but the problems with them, like most vintage analogs - in addition to the price - is the space and mainteinance.
The CS80 then is extremely delicate (the weakest part is the power surge if I remember right).

One that I always heard talking well is Alesis Andromeda, but never had chance to play one. It's not easy (perhaps rare) to find one on 2nd market... and it's very pricey.


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## Polarity (Dec 12, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Wed 11 Dec said:


> Oh and for anyone wishing they had a virus. Might be worth checking out Spire VST. Next version is supposed to chop the cpu consumption down too.



I have a Virus. I don't know Spire... but thankyou for the indication, I will check it alter today.


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## TheUnfinished (Dec 12, 2013)

I currently have a Virus TI Polar, Roland JP8000 and Arturia Minibrute. And I like all three for various different reasons. I'm spending more time with the Virus at the moment. But for simple knob twiddling joy, the Minibrute is a lark to play with.

However, what I really really want to ad to the collection is a Juno 106.


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## blougui (Dec 12, 2013)

wilx @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> I just made an odd little thing with my korg Volca keys, while I faffed around with HZ Percussion to see if it could be forced into a hip-hoppish direction. All drums are HZ, all synths are volca keys. I rushed this together in about 90mins, but it was quite fun to do.
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F124405322&secret_url=false=false[/flash]


Well done Wilx !
It's intersting as well as entertaining. As a synth addict it's fun to hear what one can do with a small box (Volca) and a big Bang (HZ). It opens doors - and makes me more than once regretting not having the quidz to purchase HZ as I'm sure it's a multipurposes/polygendra (?) lib.
Thanx !

Erik


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## eric aron (Dec 12, 2013)

i forgot to mention the beautiful sounding Accelerator from Radikal Techologies, musical and deep, the demos show a plus in the sound that i didn't met often in a VA


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## Daniel James (Dec 12, 2013)

Well currently I have a Dave Smith Tetr4, and a MicroBrute. I prefer the MicroBrute right now because its much easier to 'play' with...but the Tetr4 has its strengths too. I was reading up more on the Zebra and I hear a few comments that basically said, if the hardware synth is digital, you might as well use a VST as its like a computer anyways. Thoughts?

I do love a good VST synth too, I mean Zebra for example has a great gritty tone, and you can get some dirt out of omni too....I just noticed it seemed to be more natural on my hardware.

Here is a track I am writing working with right now, gives an idea what I do with my synths...this is Tetr4, MicroBrute, Zebra2.7, Omnisphere and Project Bravo.


[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F124459975&secret_url=false=false[/flash]

-DJ


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## Polarity (Dec 12, 2013)

it sounds good Daniel.
definitely you are on sort of "Deus Ex" kind of atmosphere when you use synths 
I like that. 

I believe that you have enough and good synths to go on for now and for a lot of time.


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## Phil M (Dec 12, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed 11 Dec said:


> My favourite synth is +35 years old (SH-5), but I picked up the new Pulse 2 a week ago, and it's really, really good. Here's a little something I made with it:
> 
> [flash width=400 height=100 loop=false]https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/122930494[/flash]
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/ned-bouhalassa/f ... dorf-pulse


Nice work  I've been meaning to dip my toe in the analgue world for a while now and just when I'd decided to go with the Bass Station II these buggers bring this out >.<

Still, it's going to be after Xmas either way, so plenty of time to decide...


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## NewAndImprov (Dec 12, 2013)

I have a Minimoog Model D, and it's definitely my all-time favorite synth! To me, it's a brilliant piece of user interface design, enough complexity to make a wide variety of sounds, yet simple enough to reprogram on the fly. I still play gigs with my Mini.

I also have a medium-sized MOTM/Blacet modular, and a Nord Lead 1. I love the MOTM, any sound I can't make on the Mini, I can get on the modular, and it's loads of fun to run digital sounds through the modular. The Nord ended up staying here when I sold the majority of my HW gear, at the time it was barely worth anything to sell used, and it has a lot of cool sounds, especially when run through a few stompboxes. 

The main lack I feel is for a poly analog. I had an Xpander here at my studio for a couple of years, and that was an amazing beast, unfortunately, it was beyond my means when it had to be sold. Also, years ago, in College, I got to spend a bunch of time with both an ARP 2600 and a Prophet 5, would love to have those again.

I'm eyeing the new Korg MS20 pretty lustfully at the moment.


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## synthetic (Dec 12, 2013)

Daniel James @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> I was reading up more on the Zebra and I hear a few comments that basically said, if the hardware synth is digital, you might as well use a VST as its like a computer anyways. Thoughts?



Yeah, I agree with that. Any digital gear can be replaced with a plug-in, it's just a question of processing power. So if it doesn't sound as good this year, it will in a year or two. This is why I hesitate on buying or upgrading digital synths or processors. Eventually we will have a Bricasti in our VST folder. 

Analog, arguably it will always be different. Although modeling might get 99.999% there eventually. But twisting knobs is fun too. 

Have you thought about building a Eurorack modular? That's an endless money pit but can get you into strange places. 

Finally, it's nice to have both analog and modeling. Analog synths can sound dated. It's nice to have something nasty like Massive or Zebra when the Moog is sounding too P-funk. But Minimoog doubling the contrabasses is totally killer.


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## germancomponist (Dec 12, 2013)

I have had so many hardware synths. One of them what I liked so much was the Korg DW 8000. and before the Oberheim. 

The Oberheim Matrix 1000 sounded more like a Casio synth to my ears..., but the Casio synth's weren't bad at all... .

The Roland Super Synthesizer was a very great synth, also the Junos... . And not to forget the DX family from Yamaha.

I had no favourite, all synths were very cool.


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## blougui (Dec 13, 2013)

Daniel James @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> Well currently I have a Dave Smith Tetr4, and a MicroBrute. I prefer the MicroBrute right now because its much easier to 'play' with...but the Tetr4 has its strengths too. I was reading up more on the Zebra and I hear a few comments that basically said, if the hardware synth is digital, you might as well use a VST as its like a computer anyways. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> -DJ



Some people say it has to do with the converters. I do not have the hears myself to feel/sense/hear such subtleties. And don't forget you'll have another conversion if you're not using a Virus TI, for instance : From the VA synth DSP to Line out, then to the Soundcard.


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## lux (Dec 13, 2013)

Daniel James @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> I was reading up more on the Zebra and I hear a few comments that basically said, if the hardware synth is digital, you might as well use a VST as its like a computer anyways. Thoughts?



I say it depends. Many synths from mid eighties to late nineties are digital, but they do not sound like Vst at all to me. I somehow assume thats because many of those synths were designed as "performers", and that some of the hardware involved in the internal chain affected the sound giving it a unique voice. As a matter of fact they do sound different eachother. And different from Vst's most of times.

Of course mine is just a generic consideration.


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## eric aron (Dec 13, 2013)

synthetic @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> Daniel James @ Thu Dec 12 said:
> 
> 
> > I was reading up more on the Zebra and I hear a few comments that basically said, if the hardware synth is digital, you might as well use a VST as its like a computer anyways. Thoughts?
> ...




In theory yes, but in reality no.

I am also dreaming to have one day everything in the computer, with 3d gesture interfaces and full tactile keyboards like the Seaboard.. but as for now there is a real difference vs plugins and hardware, even digital VAs.

Because the hardware have dedicated circuits, converters, many dsp used for generating the voices, and in analog boxes the dedicated circuitries used for each floor (vco-vcf-vca-modul), and there is an electric signal path, electrons circulating, components adding color, not "cold" bits of information like in a computer.

In a computer all is biased and randomized between the cpu, digital path, vst host, sound card, simplified synthesis algorithms, so how can we have an united sound with all these intermediaries? In a hardware, all circuits are united for a single result, calibrated by ear in the end.

Far more, the hardware conceptors use more craft and art to develop their machines, they involve more heart to polish the result, have more personal ethics and esthetic meaning. Launching a vst software company is far less risky, less money investment, faster result, so less need to care extensively about quality and customers feedback, and thus company reputation.. One vst is no good? Then make a new one, change some cosmetics, and sell it again with a clever marketing..

And who will care about the longevity of a $400 software synth? I will still have in 10 years a good selling value with an original Moog or Oberheim. Nope with any vst. And this not only because of old school nostalgy. There is a quality, a soul, a life, a richness content in the sound that I have not heard in any vst as for now ( as said before even Diva lacks the snappiness in the envelopes, the juice in the sound, has an overall dull sound without so much personality, because they wanted to make the "perfect" synth , adding the best components from every historical analog . Imagine asking a piano builder doing the same: combine Steinway mid and mid highs fullness with Fazioli overall clearness with Yamaha upper top purity and ultra fast mechanics with Bechstein deep basses.. No way. What is impossible in analog is even more impossible in digital. Maybe in future... it will be possible, I really hope, but now I don't see.

And the digital emulations of old hardwares are just emulating the one they have in laboratory. Every instrument is different, as every Steinway D out the factory has a different sound.

Same story for the samples libraries, they just catch one fraction of time of an instrument with one fraction of articulation depending on so many factors like player mood, mastery, instrument quality, tune, mic, mic position, artistic direction, hall acoustics, sound engineer decisions, digital edit, overall library ethic vs the market, and so on… the result is just an oriented cliché. Not life. Then we have to assembly these tiny canned fractions together to attempt to create the illusion of life. And so yes we continue to struggle with all these samples libraries, because no one brings something ultimate. 

Turning a knob on a Minimoog or Oberheim Sem gives every time a different result, even slightly. The relationship with the instrument is more close to the relationship with a real acoustic instrument. Because there is life behind. Memorizing parameters on a vst give more the same mathematical result one day after, because there is bits and bits. 

And facing a screen with a mouse as only interface cannot give the same human result as playing a real instrument and recording it. Even if spending hours like I do, like everyone does, polishing every note, every velocity, every musical phrase in the DAW until reaching a "more alive and musical" result. So frustrating to think that I spend 80% of my time doing this, versus 20% real music writting and playing (even less)


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## eric aron (Dec 14, 2013)

check out also the Oberheim 2 voice pro, on my list :
http://www.tomoberheim.com/


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## Steve Steele (Dec 14, 2013)

eric aron @ Fri Dec 13 said:


> synthetic @ Thu Dec 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel James @ Thu Dec 12 said:
> ...



It seems logic that if any hardware can be modeled, programmed, sampled, or otherwise copied, then a computer's CPU and OS are just another piece of hardware. 

For me it really comes down to a question of fun and musicality. I have all of the best sampled pianos, and I also have an old upright that was built in 1875. It's an interesting piano, and has a decent sound because it's a grand upright, but it doesn't sound "great". So do I play and practice piano on one of my nice piano libs or my old upright? 90% of my time is spent practicing on my upright, despite the lame keys and sticky pedals. I will always choose the real instrument over a software copy because it's not so much the sound as it is the interaction between players and object.

I got into music because I love sound and I love the instruments. I got into computers because I wanted to build a studio and I also love pure computing (worked at Apple HQ for a few years just for fun). But, I know where to draw my own line between myself as the musician and myself as the technologist. That's important I think. Samplers just aren't that much fun. Maybe for some people they are, but I like to get as close as possible to the sound source. That's why I love singing. The voice is as close as one can get. That's also what I love about the guitar and percussion, and then piano which is just one step further. I love hardware synths. Good software synths are pretty darn fun, and the instant recall of patches is great of course, but 90% of the time I'd rather play hardware. Without real organic instruments, I'd probably cease to be a musician. 


Hope that wasn't too irrelevant to the topic.

Btw, to answer the original question, I've been thinking about getting another new synth too. I've only owned or shared 70s synths (Moog, Mini Moog, Memory Moog, Arp string ensemble, etc..), some 80's Roland stuff. My last hardware purchase was an Alesis Andromeda A6 and a Novation K Station (which I still use to quickly dial in a sound). I ended up selling the Andromeda, but man that was fun piece of hardware. I'd probably just want that back, because any new synth I buy would be expensive and have to do one thing very well. That makes it hard to decide for sure.

I would also love to have either an old Prophet of some type, or a CS-80.


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## Ah_dziz (Dec 14, 2013)

Nord Modular


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## Saxer (Dec 15, 2013)

it's funny... i remember the same discussions about 'liveless' and 'soul' from the early eighties.

the popular opinion of musicians was: a (analog) synthesizer is lifeless because there is electricity and knobs and faders. no vibration, no soul, just a machine and a loudspeaker. you can't call it an instrument, it's a device. funny for some effects, boing boing, guuuau, psiiioooou, haha! but real music made with it is cold and death. only a sound produced (blown, bowed, plucked, hammered) by a human is human. the mostly younger people who had fun with synths were not taken very serious as musicians. they were nerds (whith rich parents).

the synths from this period are now called instruments with soul and warmth and whatever. 
the next generation of musicians will later reveal about the old plugins running on old computers: "so rich and warm... used by mouse on a apple computer." - "on a what??"


what i want to say: it's useless to argue 'why' some equipment must be better than others. it only depends on your personal relationship to it.


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## eric aron (Dec 15, 2013)

Saxer @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> it's funny... i remember the same discussions about 'liveless' and 'soul' from the early eighties.
> 
> the popular opinion of musicians was: a (analog) synthesizer is lifeless because there is electricity and knobs and faders. no vibration, no soul, just a machine and a loudspeaker. you can't call it an instrument, it's a device. funny for some effects, boing boing, guuuau, psiiioooou, haha! but real music made with it is cold and death. only a sound produced (blown, bowed, plucked, hammered) by a human is human. the mostly younger people who had fun with synths were not taken very serious as musicians. they were nerds (whith rich parents).
> 
> ...



so I propose to talk again about this in 10 years, when you will have to compare the Sem so4v soul with any nowadays synth plugin..

and nobody was saying this when Vangelis, Chick Corea, Isao Tomita, were beautifully playing on "machines" like Cs 80, Oberheim 4 voice, Fender Rhodes, Moog 55, Roland 700..

and you would't compare in any era the amateur doing "boing boing" to the crafted professional musician, able to create even with humble tools 

yes, the personal relationship, as to say the art, the talent, the inspiration, the craft, and the instrument. All this is in first position, yes. So when I play in concert, I ask for a Steinway D or equivalent, not a Yamaha upright, or a Pianoteq. Because the audience feels the difference.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 15, 2013)

Allow me to play Devil's advocate on the last point you make:

Sure there's some serious timbral differences between the Steinway and the Yamaha, as one is a grand and the other an upright. But, what about Pianoteq vs Steinway? Say, in a setup where the grand is also sending out MIDI to a Pianoteq plugin that is played back with speakers in the string-less body of the piano, or close to the piano itself. Will the audience still 'feel' the difference? And is that difference really in the sound or in the interpretation? Is it the pianist's potential lack of enthusiasm for anything less than a bonifide fabulous grand that the audience is picking up on?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 15, 2013)

One other point: Crap is crap. Crappy synths from the 80s still sound crappy. Same for any other decade. It's pretty obvious that a crappy-sounding softsynth from this decade will still be crappy 20 years from now. That said, most synths were made from cheap (crappy) electronics, as the bottom line existed back then too. And what of the x0x0 beat boxes and 303 from Roland? Crappy little boxes, with less than 100 bucks of parts, now worth several thousands. What's my point? Time to get some TP...


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## eric aron (Dec 15, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> Allow me to play Devil's advocate on the last point you make:
> 
> Sure there's some serious timbral differences between the Steinway and the Yamaha, as one is a grand and the other an upright. But, what about Pianoteq vs Steinway? Say, in a setup where the grand is also sending out MIDI to a Pianoteq plugin that is played back with speakers in the string-less body of the piano, or close to the piano itself. Will the audience still 'feel' the difference? And is that difference really in the sound or in the interpretation? Is it the pianist's potential lack of enthusiasm for anything less than a bonifide fabulous grand that the audience is picking up on?




interesting point.. a blind test would be nice.. and i'd like to do it. my now answer is that there is a difference.. and especially with Pianoteq.. i would have more bet on a good sampled one for the test , like Ivory 2 or True Keys. 

i recently played one concert with this kind of setup, with a Fazioli F278 and beside a 88 master keyboard with Ivory, and playing sometimes both alternated. of course big difference in sound, in harmonic content, resonance, timbre evolution-pedals, the Ivory was beautiful but "clean" , with no life between the notes, with the feeling of inboxed notes. and it should have had an advantage on the Fazioli, because Steinway sound is more overall beautiful. but no, and after the concert, i had some feedbacks about it, and some people spontaneously differentiated the sampled vs the real. 

concerning Pianoteq, i have tried it, and frankly am not convinced with the sound, if i had to compare it with a sampled grand, i would more take a sampled. the Pianotek sound feeling is for me at once artificial, well done, but artificial. modeling is in progress, but still on the way. 

i am sure people with non practised ears can be fooled up between sample vs original, as it is the same with orchestral. and also there is the well known psycho effect : this pianist X is very famous, so he must play well, so i will agree on this even before he even start playing…

but no professional pianist can eat the trick. as also no music educated ears. some studies have been done about the perception of sound quality, and even if people can't name precisely what happens, they can instinctively differenciate the true vs the sample. and the measure of emotional level in their body shows a difference.

in the classical piano high level world, yes there is elitism, and so no good pianist will accept playing on less than a Rolls Royce. i don't belong to this elite, even if i play solo sometimes ,and in this case i ask also for a good piano, but i also use samples and keyboards for other projects, and don't mind in this case to use digital versions

i remember this summer, being in a classical piano festival, after the exit, hearing in distance in the concert hall garden a jazz quartet with a baby grand piano, pretty well sounding, seems true from far, but the friend beside me was immediately groaning hearing it. i asked him why, he said "don't you hear this crap?" .. i said "no".. "this is a fake".. and it was, the Yamaha N1 flagship playing.. so good ears.. but he is one of the most reputed Steinway seller in France, and his ears are golden. And I was fooled in the moment.. :(


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## eric aron (Dec 15, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> One other point: Crap is crap. Crappy synths from the 80s still sound crappy. Same for any other decade. It's pretty obvious that a crappy-sounding softsynth from this decade will still be crappy 20 years from now. That said, most synths were made from cheap (crappy) electronics, as the bottom line existed back then too. And what of the x0x0 beat boxes and 303 from Roland? Crappy little boxes, with less than 100 bucks of parts, now worth several thousands. What's my point? Time to get some TP...




of course yes, crap was before and will continue to be. i agree there is distortion occurring in the now value of some old vintage boxes, due to illogic fashions. to compare with the outrageous auction amounts paid for a vintage Apple 2 first serie and so on.. 

i was referring to the excellence of hardware synths, as there was before, as it will continue to be in future (or via new technologies, whatever). i had also many vintage analogs and digitals, was passing long times in the shops to try, listen, and of course there were big differences of quality among the offer. same as today.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 15, 2013)

One thing is sure: our appreciation of instruments is relative. I still remember when no one wanted anything to do with analog (called the 90s).


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 15, 2013)

Getting back to the audience's appreciation, conscious or not, I'm reminded of blind tests that have been given to people with much studio experience, and many were unable to correctly differentiate good-quality mp3s from full resolution wavs. I've also read articles that showed how some very good virtual synths can fool many experts in a blind test. We are amazing at adapting, it's in our DNA. And so, perhaps, we quickly adapt to new (poor?) audio format standards.

Then again, back in them 'Golden' years, we used to listen to fine music that sounded like this (and we liked it!):


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## eric aron (Dec 15, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> Getting back to the audience's appreciation, conscious or not, I'm reminded of blind tests that have been given to people with much studio experience, and many were unable to correctly differentiate good-quality mp3s from full resolution wavs. I've also read articles that showed how some very good virtual synths can fool many experts in a blind test. We are amazing at adapting, it's in our DNA. And so, perhaps, we quickly adapt to new (poor?) audio format standards.
> 
> Then again, back in them 'Golden' years, we used to listen to fine music that sounded like this (and we liked it!):




ahaha, yes , adaptation is an automated brain process, and yes i think we adapt more to poor and less these days, in every level of life :cry: 

yes even good golden ears can be fooled, i am sure it has happened to anyone of us at least once

but quality is quality, and there are undoubtedly levels of quality, even if everyone goes more deaf year after year, and the mp3 128 has dethroned the sacd codec.. 

and i see no reason to not continue with this quality ethic, as a tiny chance to bring a better human level on this planet

listening Beethoven 9th on this old phonograph was for sure in this time an outstanding technological experience, but i would also prefer to be in the concert hall listening to the real performance. we are now more lucky with our high end audiophile systems.

and yes i was stupid enough to sell my old vintages in these 90's for a misery..


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 15, 2013)

Daniel James @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> I was reading up more on the Zebra and I hear a few comments that basically said, if the hardware synth is digital, you might as well use a VST as its like a computer anyways. Thoughts?



Yes of course. Digital is digital. A digital hardware synth is a computer in a box. The only thing is that a VST is only part of the picture. Your sound card is the other. A digital hardware synth already has the A/D converters. With any computer synth, it needs an equivalent audio converter to get the sound out. You could have the same synth exactly as a VST or hardware synth, the difference is only the audio device.

They are still all different of course. A virus may be preferable to some Massive as Massive may be preferable to Zebra for some.


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## chimuelo (Dec 15, 2013)

The biggest difference I encountered with Naitve or DSP was with envelopes, and has been resolved with SilentWay Suites plug in, granted the developer has allowed audio as a modulation source in the Native/DSP design.

If so now you have audio rate modulations using 24bit audio, which actually can out perform some old analog hardware in regards to snappiness.

Also the Portamento features using this turn the wimpy sounding Native portamento into several portamentos, one per Oscillator.

The only time I hear a big difference in sound quality is when performing live, in realtime.
On IEMs, Headphones and nearfileds I don't notice much difference, and if there was, editing can always fix things, but in realtime through powered midFields and large speaker arrays the Native synths sound like they're eminating from the back of the Cone, or behind it. 
Kontakt samples sound OK like this, but next to hardware, which is in your face and comes from dead center of the Cone, there's a big difference.
Laptop guys that share a stage with me spend more time with the FOH asking for this and that, etc. 
Then we'll do a soundcheck and suddenly the Saffires or whatever USB Junk they're using reveals it's inherent weakness.
But hey when you can carry your rig under your arm and the extra power of hardware costs 20 times as much, who's going to blame the kids for trying to KVR their way through the week...


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## muziksculp (Dec 15, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> One thing is sure: our appreciation of instruments is relative. I still remember when no one wanted anything to do with analog (called the 90s).



That's right. I remember when _Digital_ was King during the 90's, _Analog_ was old fashion


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## blougui (Dec 16, 2013)

Saxer @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> it's funny... i remember the same discussions about 'liveless' and 'soul' from the early eighties.
> 
> the popular opinion of musicians was: a (analog) synthesizer is lifeless because there is electricity and knobs and faders. no vibration, no soul, just a machine and a loudspeaker. you can't call it an instrument, it's a device. funny for some effects, boing boing, guuuau, psiiioooou, haha! but real music made with it is cold and death. only a sound produced (blown, bowed, plucked, hammered) by a human is human. the mostly younger people who had fun with synths were not taken very serious as musicians. they were nerds (whith rich parents).
> 
> ...



You nailed it - at least for me.
Back in 1987 or something, I had a Jupiter 8 (swapped a DX7 plus cash to grab it, yes, it was in those days when one could get a Jup for cheap. A mate was playing with it and having fun but kept saying "well, it's not music, it's too easy : no effort, then no merit - I did'nt have Midi on it, nore any sequencer of any kind at that time. A piano or a violin would have done it. Not a synth.
I'm pretty sure computer power will some day mimic all the hardware behaviours, even unpredictibility. Just a question of time and of money spent in R&D. 
One should'nt forget that some discret pieces of equipment are never to be manufactured & replaced anymore and some synth will probably be some Frankenstein kit due to the lack of proper piece or simply non working.
Despite all this, I'll enjoy having an Omega under my fingers or quite a few of the neo analo just for the fun of tweaking them. But I surely don't want to go through the hassle of luggin my Jupiter in the sub/bus/taxi to bring it for endless and pricey servicings. Well, even my 2 Omegas had to be serviced at some moment, or my so-called "built as a tank" McBeth M3X had to be returned - and I do not gig, just studio playing.
A tad OT here, sorry. I'm always surprised to read the same "cold"VS "warm" "synth" VS "real", Virtual VS Hardware argument over and over for 25 years :wink: 
If you"re a skilled electronician, It's a whole different story, I guess.


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## eric aron (Dec 16, 2013)

chimuelo @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> The biggest difference I encountered with Naitve or DSP was with envelopes, and has been resolved with SilentWay Suites plug in, granted the developer has allowed audio as a modulation source in the Native/DSP design.
> 
> If so now you have audio rate modulations using 24bit audio, which actually can out perform some old analog hardware in regards to snappiness.
> 
> ...




so true.... and 18 dedicated sharc dsps are in another league, and sowell the Solaris 6 ones..
i didn't know about this Silent Way Suite, thanks for the info, will have a look there


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## eric aron (Dec 16, 2013)

muziksculp @ Sun Dec 15 said:


> Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Dec 15 said:
> 
> 
> > One thing is sure: our appreciation of instruments is relative. I still remember when no one wanted anything to do with analog (called the 90s).
> ...



yes, fashion is fashion.. King of Illusion is the right name.

Beethoven is still here after nearly 200 years, and still will be in 100 years

Same for acoustic piano

Surely less for old analogue gear, but as for now we can note a pretty decent time of use ,appreciation and musical results. 40 years are a big amount in these ultra speedy times


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## AC986 (Dec 16, 2013)

Acoustic pianos are good analogue keyboards.

Difficult to say.

I only have one synthesiser today and have never actually played it more than a few times. A Prophet 08 is still in it's box more or less. When the Apple thing is sorted it out I will try and get it into the computer setup and see what happens.

The Moog was great at the time, about 1970/71 but you had a terrible time if there were any voltage fluctuations in the grid. They would NOT stay in tune. But they sounded great for just being monophonic.

I liked the Jupiter 8 a lot and that one stayed in tune most of the time.

The Yamaha DX7 caused a stir when it came out and was very handy. But it wasn't that good. It was more interesting to nerdy types that were into mathematics.

Digital keyboards today are relatively boring but if I could afford one I would probably get the Nord 2 88 note 3 grand thing.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 16, 2013)

> The Yamaha DX7 caused a stir when it came out and was very handy. But it wasn't that good. It was more interesting to nerdy types that were into mathematics.



Actually I remember it causing more than a stir - it was a smash hit throughout the 80s. It was the first real synthesizer blockbuster. You couldn't watch a single TV movie or pop hit without hearing some DX. It was also ubiquitous at electronic/computer music concerts/performances, so it wasn't only used in popular music. It was like a digital storm that blew away most musicians' interest in analog gear. It also really established the purchase of 3rd-party libraries, which meant that you really didn't have to program anything (no math needed) to get great sounds. Finally, the keyboard felt pretty good and with time, the DX would have a second life as a basic MIDI controller all over studios in the 90s.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 16, 2013)

adriancook @ 16/12/2013 said:


> Digital keyboards today are relatively boring today...



What makes you say that?


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## AC986 (Dec 16, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon Dec 16 said:


> adriancook @ 16/12/2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Digital keyboards today are relatively boring today...
> ...



It only really caused a stir with newer, younger people getting into all that. For the guys that had gone through the 50s and 60s gear, it was handy in that it stayed in tune and had presets and a cartridge you could also stick into it if I remember right. For example, you would never see Keith Emerson or Pink Floyd playing DX7s back then. Where they became more interesting was when they created a rack of 8 of them that could be controlled with a KX88 and a pedal and all that kind of thing. I thought they were thin sounding as a single instrument. Quite good but thin.
There were a lot of other synthesizers I would have liked above a DX7 back then but then it's horses for courses. I just looked at my old bills and I see I bought a DX7 in 1984. Jupiter 8 was a much better thing.

Compared to when the whole thing started, digital keyboards today are not that interesting. I would still take the Nord though if I had the cash. I wouldn't bother that much with hardware if I was starting into it today. I would get the soft ones like Zebra. 

I would still rather have a 1959 Les Paul Sunburst and an appropriate Fender combo over any of it. Most of its junk.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 16, 2013)

Really surprising that you think most synths today are junk. But that's you're choice. I think I've exhausted my interest in this thread now.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 16, 2013)

Obviously synths today are not junk. We have just about any option we want in either hardware or software, retro style or modern. The more advanced ones being software of course since the screen gives so much more flexibility of editing. Think of things like Alchemy. Nobody would bother with a hardware DX7 type synth since it's covered so easily in software. But there are plenty of hardware synths out there, both digital hardware and even new affordable analogs like the recreated MS-20, covering both old and new.


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## AC986 (Dec 16, 2013)

It's worth noting that software synths don't play like hardware synths. Different.

It's also worth mentioning that as this is about hardware let me tell you about todays keybeds. They're crap. The keybeds don't last very long if they get hard playing. They break.

Ergo, soft synths cost less and last longer.  

Lets face it, how many people are keyboard virtuosos round here? It's all about sound.


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## blougui (Dec 16, 2013)

Have I had the cash, I would go for the mini MS20, BoomStar from Studio Electronics, subPhatty, Bass Sation 2. And even more the Cwejman MK 2.
The neo- analo they rockz ! =o


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 16, 2013)

Adrian, have you played synths from the 70s? The keybeds are pretty bad as well! As for soft synths lasting longer, here's a deal: if we're both still around in 15 years, and I still have my Pulse 2 (2013) synth, let's see how easy it is for you to call up that softsynth you bought in 2013...

And finally, you don't have to be virtuoso to tell the difference between a crap keyboard and a quality one. All of us here can do that. (a little secret: many of us here who play synths are actually, gasp, musicians.)


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## AC986 (Dec 16, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon Dec 16 said:


> Adrian, have you played synths from the 70s? The keybeds are pretty bad as well! As for soft synths lasting longer, here's a deal: if we're both still around in 15 years, and I still have my Pulse 2 (2013) synth, let's see how easy it is for you to call up that softsynth you bought in 2013...
> 
> And finally, you don't have to be virtuoso to tell the difference between a crap keyboard and a quality one. All of us here can do that. (a little secret: many of us here who play synths are actually, gasp, musicians.)



Oh yes indeed. From about 1971 or even 1970. I've had to play oboe in orchestras and studios. But keyboards are my second instrument and you could get a lot of studio time money with that. Before that in the 1960s I would play pianos, electric pianos, organs, harpsichords anything they wanted. 
Most synthesizer/keyboard players back then, I say MOST, were virtuoso keyboard players that just used them as an addition to the traditional stuff aforementioned.
They had to be because you didn't have computers and they all played and recorded live for their living. They were mostly trained players. Keith Emerson started the ball rolling with synthesizers. Not many people can play like that live.

The ones you didn't see wound up doing a lot of library gigs or stuff like the Radiophonic Workshop sound and some of it very good too. A lot of stuff went into ambient music later on.


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## eric aron (Dec 17, 2013)

today as yesterday we have crap, but we can find also good stuff at cheap prices, for example the brilliant newcomer Waldorf Pulse, or more early Blofeld , DSI Mopho, Evolver, Moog phattys. In this budget level they are all very good.

its also difficult for me to find a good keyboard, being classical trained.. the best touch i've bought is the Kawai mp10 (now vpc 1), with it I don't loose so much the feel when I have to play then on a grand piano. as for cheap lightweight keys very few have aftertouch, painful. i was so delighted with my Ensoniq vfx poly aftertouch, even if it was not so reliable.. 

for more budget and innovation, the Roli Seaboard is awesome. Also the TouchKeys system is promising.

DX7 was a revolution in his time, midi, memories, good keyboard, aftertouch, breath control, new synthesis, new sounds.. all this was so rare , if i remember well only the Prophet 5-10 had consistent memories, and even no velocity keys. i was so happy in this time to buy the dx (chosen between a Polymoog synth), and i had no money to afford the Jupiter 8 

as for tuning the instrument, an old oberheim 8 voice was painful to tune, yes, but as any acoustic instrument.. you need more than 1 hour to tune a grand piano, this is needed before each concert. and you can get out of tune on some notes during the concert itself. flute players are more lucky, i know.


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## AC986 (Dec 17, 2013)

eric aron @ Tue Dec 17 said:


> its also difficult for me to find a good keyboard, being classical trained



You'll never find one. The best of the bunch so far is the big Nord and that's not perfect.

One of the worst keybeds I ever came across are the ones on Kurzweil. They're awful crap and break really quickly. I don't know if it's an inherent fault or not. Most people today are better off getting a cheap thing like a Yamaha P35 88 notes for sequencing and throw it away when it breaks and get another one.


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## JPQ (Dec 17, 2013)

adriancook @ Tue 17 Dec said:


> eric aron @ Tue Dec 17 said:
> 
> 
> > its also difficult for me to find a good keyboard, being classical trained
> ...



What kurzweil you mean? odd becouse many people like them. and i like how they sounds but if its true what you mean about current models. i must think again what get to hardware my studio. the are only few which i like when we talk hardware and to more accurare digital hardware. Anothers are Roland Jupiter-50 (jupiter-80 is too pricey) and little some modern Korgs. Sometimes i want bread butter in hardware and keys to control my softsynths. Fully software studio makes me nervous and sad. of course maybe i stick long with my yamaha s30 and get "oddjob synths"...


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## AC986 (Dec 17, 2013)

JPQ I like the sound of just about any synthesiser. I'm not talking about how they sound.

If you spend a lot of time playing chords and pads on any keyboard you have nothing to worry about.


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## JPQ (Dec 17, 2013)

adriancook @ Tue 17 Dec said:


> JPQ I like the sound of just about any synthesiser. I'm not talking about how they sound.
> 
> If you spend a lot of time playing chords and pads on any keyboard you have nothing to worry about.



try play all kind things. But if you say you mean current or old ones form kurzweil?
(i think you mean recend ones becouse so many gives tips about new products)
and i know you dont talk sound i say it becouse i dream best possible sound and keyboard combination.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 9, 2014)

Reviving an old thread just to share my love for the Pulse 2. Easily, the best mono analog synth for the buck sound-wise, for me, in the last few years. A little something from earlier today:


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## Marius Masalar (Apr 9, 2014)

Very chill, Ned, I like! 

Haven't had a chance to play with the Pulse 2 yet outside of a few moments at MoogAudio, but I had the same issue with it as the Blofeld...wanted more knobs.

I get the whole mod matrix setup, but I'd rather it be twice as high and give me more 1:1 access to parameters. I think the Elektron folks strike a good balance there.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 10, 2014)

I hear you about the lack of knobs, but I found that I got used to it pretty quickly (36 parameters are one click away). It has a wicked modulation matrix, lots and lots of options, is all analog, and it sounds amazing. It's also paraphonic, so that really opens things up. ~o)


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## Giant_Shadow (Apr 10, 2014)

I still love my Pulse MK I : )


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## gsilbers (Apr 10, 2014)

im waiting to see the new elektron plugin integration/controller. if its anything like (maybe better) than the virus TI then im all in. 4 poly analog with plugin integration.. drool. 
i just love my virus ti, and going back to session 3 years ago and still seeing the patches i did... priceless. 
and now real analog? oh man. hope it works.


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## Danielo (Apr 10, 2014)

Mathazzar @ Wed Apr 09 said:


> I get the whole mod matrix setup, but I'd rather it be twice as high and give me more 1:1 access to parameters. I think the Elektron folks strike a good balance there.



Actually I don't mind the Mod Matrix on the Blofeld as much - I prefer it to the set-up on the DSI Tetra/Mopho - I find you can usually get to where you want to go within a few quick clicks/twists...

Sound-wise...hard to say - I have several and they each have their distinct sound. If I started from scratch today, I would definitely weigh more towards the Modular world...that is if you can stand the learning curve, cost, and the lack of polyphony... :(


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## Wes Antczak (Apr 10, 2014)

My personal favorite is also from Waldorf, but it isn't analog (hope that isn't a problem)... it's the XTK. What I really like about it is the sound (it does a really good job of mimicking that analog vibe), and I like all the knobs. No menu diving on that synth.

That said... I wouldn't mind getting a Pulse 2 at some point... just for fun. I already have a Pulse 1 and the sound is pretty good.

Waldorf does a good job of implementing the editing matrix that they use on the Pulse, Pulse 2, uQ, and Blofeld. It may not seem like a lot of knobs, but it's really easy to zip around to get to what you want to edit.

Still, as I said... the xtk is my own personal favorite.


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## Marius Masalar (Apr 10, 2014)

By the way, Ned: where did you get your Pulse 2?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 10, 2014)

Same place where I picked up my TR-8 today  : Moogaudio.


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## cc64 (Apr 10, 2014)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Thu Apr 10 said:


> Same place where I picked up my TR-8 today  : Moogaudio.



Ha that's why you ate your pizza so fast ; ) 

You where really lusting for that piece of gear!

Thanks again!

À la revoyure très bientôt!

Claude


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## Folmann (Apr 10, 2014)

David Smith Prophet 12


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 10, 2014)

cc64 @ 10/4/2014 said:


> Ned Bouhalassa @ Thu Apr 10 said:
> 
> 
> > Same place where I picked up my TR-8 today  : Moogaudio.
> ...



FWIW, I only found out after I left! Love it... and you, CC! =o


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 10, 2014)

Folmann @ 10/4/2014 said:


> David Smith Prophet 12



Very dope choice, my man. I will get it, one day... _-)


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## eric aron (Apr 11, 2014)

Pulse 2 have excellent quality price ratio. so tempting to complete the Blofeld.. but after many investigations i think more and more to move to modular world, and build my own set with tactile interfaces, and get rid of everything else


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## Marius Masalar (Apr 11, 2014)

Hah, MoogAudio is the bomb. I think I must have purchased half my studio in that shop 

Also: yay for Aira! I was there on the first day to jam with all three and see what they were like...walked out with a TB-3 and my TR-8 arrives next week *sigh*.

It's odd, I'm a 100% in-the-box guy, but the immediacy and focused fun of those little Aira boxes was incredibly inspirational. I miss that while wading through the depths of my plugin caverns.

As for synths, the sub-$1,000 price range is currently very exciting. Pulse 2, Bass Station II, Arturia's Mini/MicroBrutes...


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## Wes Antczak (Apr 11, 2014)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Thu Apr 10 said:


> Folmann @ 10/4/2014 said:
> 
> 
> > David Smith Prophet 12
> ...



A big +1 to this comment. P12 looks to be a very cool synth and lot of creative fun.


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## Wes Antczak (Apr 11, 2014)

eric aron @ Fri Apr 11 said:


> Pulse 2 have excellent quality price ratio. so tempting to complete the Blofeld.. but after many investigations i think more and more to move to modular world, and build my own set with tactile interfaces, and get rid of everything else



I probably wouldn't get rid of everything else... but the modular bug is definitely settled in there somewhere at the back of my mind. Just a small system I keep thinking to myself. 

One of my very earliest experiences was learning about synthesis on a Modular Moog, so that "bug" was planted a while ago and never really went away, lol.


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## Adrian Myers (Apr 11, 2014)

Ooo yet another vote for Waldorf gear, particularly the Blofeld. Following on Wes's comment, the wavetables in the Microwave/XT/XTk made some of the grittiest industrial sounds out there for a long time, and all of those sounds are in the Blofeld with even more routing possibilities. Furthermore, Waldorf never really concerned themselves with analog purity, they are happy to let the machines be digital, complex, noisy, and powerful. Huge vote for a Blofeld.

Another stranded madman who is into aggressive synth modulation for its own sake is Ken MacBeth : http://www.macbethstudiosystems.com/

A quick MacBeth video:
http://vimeo.com/25605690

I don't have time here at work to scan for better examples but if you look for MacBeth videos at Namm or Messe over the years, you're pretty sure to see him getting some insane screams and driven sounds coming out of whatever he's presenting  I don't own any MacBeth synths but I think I would if I went for more true analog.

Cheers


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## Wes Antczak (Apr 11, 2014)

Mathazzar @ Fri Apr 11 said:


> Hah, MoogAudio is the bomb. I think I must have purchased half my studio in that shop
> 
> Also: yay for Aira! I was there on the first day to jam with all three and see what they were like...walked out with a TB-3 and my TR-8 arrives next week *sigh*.
> 
> ...




I'm pretty sure that just about all of us are itb these days, if not for the sample libraries and the virtual instruments then I'm pretty sure at least for the recording/mixing.

But what you said about immediacy, focused fun, and inspiration soooo rings true, imo. Something about being able to simply plug in and not always have to be tied to a computer and a mouse. Also for interacting with other musicians and just jamming, etc. 

What you say about the sub $1k range also rings true. A lot of interesting choices out there nowadays... and if you can afford something approaching the $2k range then you get into stuff like the Sub37 and the Prophet 12. Good times in hardware synth land for sure.


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## Wes Antczak (Apr 11, 2014)

I own a Blofeld as well. As Adrian said, it's an amazing machine especially considering that it basically envelopes the entire history of PPG and Waldorf wavetable synthesis in one little package. Amazing! (I can say 'little' because I have the tabletop version)

Personally, I would almost recommend the Blofeld over the Pulse as a first entry into the world of Waldorf and then branch out from there. It all depends on individual needs and situations, but Blofeld covers quite a lot of sonic ground for the money. I don't remember now how much I paid for it but I want to say something in the $450 range. Incredible value, imo.

Oh... and yeah... Waldorf didn't really set out to make the Blofeld/Xtk/Q, etc. to be "virtual analog" per se. But imo, they are VERY good at it just the same. My xtk can sound way more analog than my Matrix 1000! I've found that it can be much much deeper and bubblier... as well as whispy and delicate... and all points in between.

(I realize a Matrix 1000 isn't necessarily the strongest point of comparison, but I no longer have any of my bigger VCO not DCO machines to compare with directly.)


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## Marius Masalar (Apr 11, 2014)

Adrian Myers @ Fri Apr 11 said:


> Another stranded madman who is into aggressive synth modulation for its own sake is Ken MacBeth : http://www.macbethstudiosystems.com/


This man is hilarious. He's Craig Ferguson making synthesizers. Too bad they're all so expensive.

The NAMM video where he's showing off his new Elements synth is another good example of the sounds his stuff will produce: http://youtu.be/tafAJl64UKc


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## stonzthro (Apr 11, 2014)

OK Ned, now you must give us a TR-8 demo!


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 11, 2014)

Working on it...


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## MichalCielecki (Apr 11, 2014)

Elektron Analog Four.


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## eric aron (Apr 13, 2014)

Wes Antczak @ Fri Apr 11 said:


> I own a Blofeld as well. As Adrian said, it's an amazing machine especially considering that it basically envelopes the entire history of PPG and Waldorf wavetable synthesis in one little package. Amazing! (I can say 'little' because I have the tabletop version)
> 
> Personally, I would almost recommend the Blofeld over the Pulse as a first entry into the world of Waldorf and then branch out from there. It all depends on individual needs and situations, but Blofeld covers quite a lot of sonic ground for the money. I don't remember now how much I paid for it but I want to say something in the $450 range. Incredible value, imo.
> 
> ...




+1 and with regrets about the never coming Stromberg...


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## Beermaster (Apr 13, 2014)

My little favourites at home:


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## blougui (Apr 13, 2014)

Beermaster : Oh my !
(o) 

Oh my !Oh my !Oh my !

! It shows so much noodle powa that you could open a Udon & Soba franchise !

It makes me drool, it makes me quiver, it makes me salivate with hunger and it's the paradise I hope I'll reach whenever comes my end.

As I might recognize some Cwejman, Buchla, System 100m and probably - what a crude word for such _delicatessen_ - would you be so kind finish me with the extensive naming as I'm agonizing ?

- Erik


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 13, 2014)

Good Lord, man, outstanding gear! Much lusting from this humble knobster.

(o::o)


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## Wes Antczak (Apr 13, 2014)

Good lord, indeed! Holy crap! That is a seriously impressive modular setup! >8o 

Wow.


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## Giant_Shadow (Apr 14, 2014)

I wish I knew of any good recent modular albums. I might then try to get excited.
The whole bug music thing s really turns me off musically. YMMV.




Beermaster @ Sun Apr 13 said:


> My little favourites at home:


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## eric aron (Apr 14, 2014)

so impressive !!!!! 

could you also help with more details about the modules, and the reasons of your choices?


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## Adrian Myers (Apr 14, 2014)

Giant_Shadow @ Mon Apr 14 said:


> I wish I knew of any good recent modular albums. I might then try to get excited.
> The whole bug music thing s really turns me off musically. YMMV.


I felt the same way forever. And while it is uppity and niche and not what you'd expect for a modular album, maybe that's why I cannot overstate how much I love Richard Galbraith's "Polyphony" : http://richardgalbraith.bandcamp.com/album/polyphony

That's the first modular work I've heard in a very long time where the author was interested in the ends rather than the means. Anybody can build glitchy feedback loops and wildass pitch smears with a thousand patch cables and no idea what it's supposed to sound like. Very few people can approach Suzanne Ciani levels of sound design, and ever rarer seem to be people interested in actual music on a modular. Anyway, moderate ranting aside, Galbraith is a hero to me for that album. I really love everything about it.


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## Beermaster (Apr 14, 2014)

Giant_Shadow @ Mon Apr 14 said:


> I wish I knew of any good recent modular albums. I might then try to get excited.
> The whole bug music thing s really turns me off musically. YMMV.
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed, there are a lot of geeks using modulars without any musical experience and these machines are hard to tame in a traditional scoring sense BUT, don't assume that they limited to bug music. Just ask Mr Zimmer. 

My day job doesn't really give me the option of using the modular - too little time and no recall but I do have a lot of fun with it.

These two pictures are only half of my modular setup . . . 89VCOs . . 78 filters.....


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 15, 2014)

stonzthro @ 11/4/2014 said:


> OK Ned, now you must give us a TR-8 demo!



Your wish has been granted!


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## Giant_Shadow (Apr 15, 2014)

Real nice job Ned as usual, just when I thought my Goldbaby samples would be enough too. Does it do down tempo stuff and ambient well ?

ps The Pulse II sounds nice as well


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## Marius Masalar (Apr 15, 2014)

Great demo, Ned! I'm glad you can apply effects per instrument, I just wish they'd tell you how in the manual...on the other hand, it's been fun to crowdsource tips and tricks like changing the LED colour scheme and so on.

Anyway, my TR-8 arrived yesterday and so naturally I hooked it up to the TB-3 and had some fun. Here's a bit of noodling:

[flash width=750 height=100 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F144864060&secret_url=false&theme_color=c8d1de&color=0066ff&comments_color=0066ff[/flash]
https://soundcloud.com/mathazzar/aira-noodling

Drums are all TR-8 (naturally), most of the bass/synth/arp stuff is TB-3 with the exception of u-he Diva providing the pad and NI's FM8 for synth keys.

Very happy with this pair, and it forces you to become a better performer too.


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## snowleopard (Apr 16, 2014)

I was a teenage music student when I walked into a music store and fell in love. The original SCI Prophet-5. I think more than a few people on here will both chuckle, and relate. It's a moment indelibly stamped into my memory I will never forget. It changed my life and I really mean that. I also loved what the OB-8 and Jupiter-8 were lke too, and I spent more time playing a JP8. But there was always something both beautiful and gritty about the early Prophets. Oddly enough, while I bought many more synths, I never picked up a P5 (though my best friend did). 

In modern times I own a Waldorf Q and really like it. It has a nice digital/analogue hybrid style that isn't true VA, and isn't PPG, but something between. But most of all I really like the layout and all the knobs. I need to find the proper quote from Jarre, but it's something about how there is an organic nature to working with a true synthesizer (even those that are digital) when you have all the knobs and sliders on it. You interact with it in ways you don't with modern computer synths, even with all the MIDI controllers you can buy. This is something I really miss from my youth, and why I envision a day when I (have more money and) pick up a Prophet-12, a Solaris, etc. and make the music I grew up dreaming of.


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## dpasdernick (Apr 16, 2014)

I love this thread. I just bought a Roland JD-990 and right after I got it I saw a dude selling a stack of 5 rack mounts synths. I bought them all. Another JD-990, An Ensoniq SQR, a Yamaha SM-50, a Yamaha TG-500 and a beloved Roland D-550. I have a ton of software synths but there's something about hardware that is so nostalgic for me. I road that wave through the late 70's to the mid 90's where a new type of synthesis was introduced (FM, LA, Sampling, etc) every 6 months or so and I would blow through wads of cash trying to buy the latest. The first time I heard Fantasia on a Roland D-50 I think I wept a little. Magic. And now I have it back.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 17, 2014)

I'm really, really loving the Pulse 2! Here's a new ditty featuring the TR-8:

https://soundcloud.com/ned-bouhalassa/tyrell-shakedown


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