# Bricasti - anyone using the hardware unit?



## tripit (Dec 22, 2010)

I'm thinking about springing for a bricasti M7. Just wanted to know if any of you are using one. (not the IR's - I have those, I'm talking about hardware unit) I know a few must be using it. Thoughts?


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## midphase (Dec 22, 2010)

I think that anyone who's sprung up the $3.5k for one will tell you that they're awesome.

The real question is....are they $3.5k of awesome (say compared to IR's)?

I think there is definitely something about hardware reverbs (and preamps, and eq's and compressors, etc) which--if nothing else-- adds additional depth and character to a mix by bringing a different set of a/d d/a converters and audio signal processing...but once again the real question is if this increase is worth the expenditure?

Also, there are some negatives to hardware units, such as it's more challenging to implement a buffer delay compensation, there are potential complications from clocks (a master clock might be in order), and of course you can kiss that wonderful offline bouncing goodbye.

I know for sure that at least two members of VI Control have the Bricasti, so hopefully they'll chime in with some feedback...just keep in mind that psychologically it's quite difficult to spend that kind of money and not love the product.


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## midphase (Dec 23, 2010)

You might also consider posting this question on Gearslutz.com which has more engineer-types floating around. John Rodd might also be able to have some insight on the matter...not sure if he's still checking the posts around here though.


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## tripit (Dec 23, 2010)

midphase @ Thu Dec 23 said:


> You might also consider posting this question on Gearslutz.com which has more engineer-types floating around. John Rodd might also be able to have some insight on the matter...not sure if he's still checking the posts around here though.



I've been frequent on GS recently (only go there when I'm looking at gear) and I also hang a lot in the prosound web. The M7 is highly touted in both places.


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## tripit (Dec 23, 2010)

tmhuud @ Thu Dec 23 said:


> John completely sold me on the unit. I love it. Theres nothing quite like it to be honest.


Thanks Terry - I suspect that I probably would too.


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## Colin O'Malley (Dec 23, 2010)

I'm not adding anything new here, but for me it has made things a lot easier. I used to use several altiverbs with separate ER's and tails like many do here. I still use some er's but for the most part I just turn on the m7 and I'm nearly there (particularly for orch mockups). I almost feel guilty sometimes. It's lush and open even when you crank it. Short rooms are also great but I dont use them much because I only have 1 m7. I still use altiverb and the lexicon native plug with the m7 sometimes, but m7 definitely has a magic to it in a mix that the others don't for me. Again, it's something about how open and uncluttered it is. Hard to describe.

Colin


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## Dietz (Dec 23, 2010)

tripit @ Thu Dec 23 said:


> [...] stuff like the *EMT 250*, so I know what good *analog* hardware can bring [...]



;-D ... good one, Tripit.

Merry Xmas!


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## lulgje (Dec 23, 2010)

It's true, John Rodd uses it constantly and has suggested many times as a great piece of gear. For him to feel so strongly about it, combined with your ears, it must mean something 

I personally have been reluctant to shell out $3.5K on it because I have the Bricasti IR's and do use them in Altiverb. Not sure what the difference would be in between the hardware and the IR's.

But in any case, if you have the budget, and all the other areas of your production chain are taken cared off then do it and enjoy it!

Happy Holidays!


=o


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## tripit (Dec 23, 2010)

Dietz @ Thu Dec 23 said:


> tripit @ Thu Dec 23 said:
> 
> 
> > [...] stuff like the *EMT 250*, so I know what good *analog* hardware can bring [...]
> ...



Good one Dietz...
Ahem...I should have said "hardware gear" :D I've gotten into the habit of using the term "analog" for just about anything that requires a hardware insert. 

Merry Xmas!
o-[][]-o


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## deadzed (Dec 23, 2010)

I've been using an M7 for about a year in conjunction with TC system 6000. The Bricasti no doubt sounds great! Having 3 would be ideal. Having just one instance is a challenge for the way I use verb. Different for Vox, Snare, drums, etc... Early reflections such as with ambient patches are excellent, very transparent and realistic. I can't imagine a better sounding verb on a drum kit. It literally sounds like you're in the room. The Bric has depth, major depth. I recently upgraded the chips to V2 and those sound different, a little more rich and theres a killer Vox preset which I use all of the time (V1 algorithms are not replaced by upgrade). For orchestral I go to the TC. To my ears convolutions don't compare. For what it's worth I should say I have not heard the Lexicon bundle.


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## reid (Jan 14, 2011)

I've been using an M7 for the last 18 months or so - like many I'd been a convolution convert (Space Designer then Altiverb), particularly for orchestral work. My experience is that nothing compares to the M7 for orchestral work. There's a spaciousness and.... I dunno, _integrity_ to it that I've not heard elsewhere. Still on the V1 chips here, and loving it. The rooms are stellar too - however, it wouldn't be my go-to unit for 'character' verbs. I recently picked up a UAD card, and was truly astonished at how lush the EMT plugs are - the 140 in particular, does something that I think the M7 would be hard pressed to equal, and the 250 is on a par in certain respects. I think if you're considering buying one, be clear about what you want to get from it, and see if there's a cheaper option out there - and then audition both possibilities side by side.

Your wallet may end up thanking you for it..... :shock:


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## John Rodd (Jan 23, 2011)

midphase @ Thu Dec 23 said:


> You might also consider posting this question on Gearslutz.com which has more engineer-types floating around. John Rodd might also be able to have some insight on the matter...not sure if he's still checking the posts around here though.



Hi all

My ears were burning..... so I came over to look



It is true that I own an M7.... I also own a pair of TC6000 hardware units (I use them for both reverb, and mastering work)

I also own a TC 4000... and a Quantec Yardstick... and a vintage spring reverb.... and a number of plugin reverbs as well. Oh yeah I also own a Rumour..... i'm probably forgetting some hardware... I'm tired today....

anyway - i would encourage anyone to arrange a demo of a Bricasti M7 before laying out the cash.... they are expensive. 

however 

I'm a big fan of how the M7 can be used to convincingly create a space that wasn't there when the music was recorded. I did an amazing thing on one of my orchestral Cliff Martinez scores a few years back.... I made 21 strings in a very small studio sound more like a bigger ensemble, on a big scoring stage. The M7 was a key element in that score....

Just recently I was scoring mixer on the Cliff Martinez score for "The Lincoln Lawyer" ( a great film that comes out March 18th, 2011 in the USA & UK & Canada) and I used a 10 second reverb on the M7 on certain things, in certain cues... sounded awesome!

I have also used it to create intimate jazz clubs for jazz scores..... to make drum kits sound much better..... many, many different applications.

My other hardware reverbs are all great, in their own ways... this is why I haven't bought more M7's (yet)

The M7 also excels with virtual orchestras, and hybrid scores.

No, I have not compared the hardware to the IRs. In the past when I have done those comparisons, the hardware has always been significantly better, in my experience.

Does that help at all?

:D 

best regards

John


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## tripit (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks John.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jan 23, 2011)

I am interested in picking up a unit.


If I could only buy 1 unit - how can I use it well with my existing set up?


I use Multiple IR's with seperate ER and Tails and a master tail for - glue!


Colin are you using IR for Earlys and then just a single tail for the entire orchestra?


I love the sound of the M7 in whaatever demos I have heard so far but I am just worried about using a single instance - how are you guys using it?


Thanks.


Best,

Tanuj.


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## jamwerks (Jan 24, 2011)

Use it a one of you verbs doing composing. Then at mixing you can print several Bricasti tracks (replacing you plug verbs)!


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## jamwerks (Jan 24, 2011)

John Rodd @ Mon Jan 24 said:


> My ears were burning..... so I came over to look



Great info here! So having an M7, do you still find use for the TC4000 in dealing with VI’s. I ask because I’ve seen some very low prices on TC4000’s here in Europe. o-[][]-o


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## John Rodd (Jan 24, 2011)

jamwerks @ Mon Jan 24 said:


> So having an M7, do you still find use for the TC4000 in dealing with VI’s. I ask because I’ve seen some very low prices on TC4000’s here in Europe. o-[][]-o



To me the TC 4000 still sounds better than every plugin reverb that I have ever heard.....

it has the same (vss4HD) algos as the hardware TC 60000.

and yes - I use it all the time. (along with my other hardware reverbs) - It is a greò L   ê“c L


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## JJP (Jan 24, 2011)

John Rodd @ Mon Jan 24 said:


> To me the TC 4000 still sounds better than every plugin reverb that I have ever heard.....


+1 =o


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## tripit (Jan 28, 2011)

Well, I sprung for the M7. Found a used one nearby, brand spanking new - still had the plastic on the screen for a great deal from another producer. I figured I could easily sell it and not lose a cent if it turned out I don't like it.

So, far I used to mix several cues and I have to say it's really, really good. The first thing I've noticed is that the music sits in it better than anything else I have. And the there is no loss of clarity - which is why it sits so well in the verb. The chamber sounds are killer. It's a V1, so I ordered the V2 upgrade, which offers a lot of new verbs and other features. 

I think it's one of the better investments I could have made at this point.


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## cc64 (Jan 28, 2011)

Hi Hannes, looks like a Hang-Drum to me. Not completely sure though.

Claude


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## gsilbers (Jan 29, 2011)

tripit @ Thu Dec 23 said:


> Thanks Kays.
> Yeah, that's the question. Is it worth it?
> 
> You can get to a point where gear gets down to the last 5% percent at the top of quality, and it's the hardest stretch of 5% you'll ever see. Usually the most expensive as well.
> ...



ive been reading a lot about the EMT verbs of the UAD cards. 
and UAD cards in general. 
i still dont know about getting a card or not. 
i saw the EMT demo and it sounded pretty good. although it was all about pop music so im not sure. 
i know its no M7 but compared to other plugin verbs is it better than lexPCM/revibe480L/Rverb/Aether/etc?


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## Thonex (Jan 29, 2011)

I have a Bricasti M7. It's just hard to go back to anything else after you've tried it. That's not to say that I don't still use Altiverb, but the sound I get with the Bricasti for can't be replaced with anything else I've tried.
 
I think what others have said is true:

Transparent, lush, clear, real, expansive.

Cheers,

Andrew K


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## John Rodd (Jan 29, 2011)

Thonex @ Sat Jan 29 said:


> I have a Bricasti M7. It's just hard to go back to anything else after you've tried it. That's not to say that I don't still use Altiverb, but the sound I get with the Bricasti for can't be replaced with anything else I've tried.
> 
> I think what others have said is true:
> 
> ...



I'd agree with everything that Andrew said.

I'd also add that my pair of TC Electronic Reverb 6000's are *fantastic* sounding as well.

Plus if someone is on a budget.... used TC 4000's have the same algo's as the 6000's for reverb... (but just in stereo) ... and can had used for about $1,500. This puts you into the high end hardware reverb area... for the least cost.... in my opinion.

8)


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## jamwerks (Jan 29, 2011)

John Rodd @ Sat Jan 29 said:


> Plus if someone is on a budget.... used TC 4000's have the same algo's as the 6000's for reverb...



Are there times or situations (let’s say for sampled orchestral mockups) that you would prefer a TC 4000 over an M7?

Any specific thoughts would be interesting to read!

Thanks o-[][]-o


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## John Rodd (Jan 29, 2011)

jamwerks @ Sat Jan 29 said:


> John Rodd @ Sat Jan 29 said:
> 
> 
> > Plus if someone is on a budget.... used TC 4000's have the same algo's as the 6000's for reverb...
> ...



I wouldn't pick the 4000 over the M7, but i do frequently use both 6000/4000 *AND* an M7 in a mix..... at the same time.

both are awesome. They are different.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 30, 2011)

Thonex @ Sat Jan 29 said:


> I have a Bricasti M7. It's just hard to go back to anything else after you've tried it. That's not to say that I don't still use Altiverb, but the sound I get with the Bricasti for can't be replaced with anything else I've tried.
> 
> I think what others have said is true:
> 
> ...



Do you have favorite patches, Andrew?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 11, 2011)

I'm renting one now, and I just tried on some virtual orch stuff - wow!!! I hope I don't fall too in love with it... :shock:


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## mikebarry (Jun 11, 2011)

Good place to start is Boston Hall A. 

Somehow it seams to place the reverb not only behind but within and in front of the audio. Hard to describe until heard.


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## tripit (Jun 11, 2011)

I ended up picking up one a while back in late Jan, and couldn't be happier with it. And, I do use the Boston A for orch. But I also found a lot of use out of many other settings, mostly for non orchestral drums, vocal mixes etc. Really great verb and the V2 gives you more of a lexi style sound to boot.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 12, 2011)

I'll be sure to check out Boston Hall, Mike. BTW, when I turned it on and listened for the first time, the first thing I thought of was Lexicon. Then I read this from a review: "... the company was started by the design team responsible for developing many of the classic Lexicon units down the ages." 

BTW, BTW, you've got to have more love for the Bs, Mike! They and the Rangers are not that different, if you really think about it, especially when you look at their history, cups, grit over pure skill, etc.


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## Revson (Jun 16, 2011)

mikebarry @ Sun Jun 12 said:


> Good place to start is Boston Hall A.
> 
> Somehow it seams to place the reverb not only behind but within and in front of the audio. Hard to describe until heard.



I believe I read back when the M7 first came out that the actual Boston (Symphony) Hall was Bricasti's listening reference during development.


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## chimuelo (Jun 16, 2011)

Mike Barry,
I know what you mean.
I describe it as the effect wrapping around the audio source.
And after 30 years of using hardware effects, reverb is the most difficult to emulate.
I associate its unique character to having the DSP chips with RAM attached to them.
No OS adding extra chores, no trips to the motherboard for RAM loops. etc, and having your own RISC processing seems to be un-emulatable.
Is this worth the extra 3500 USD ....?
I don't know, it depends if you think your music is worth it..

What's sad is I bought the XITE-1 1U DSP rack as the 18 AD21369 DSP Chips each have 64MB's of RAM attached to them.
Sadly the unit took 1 1/2 years longer to build in numbers and the DSP programmers went elsewhere.
THis is why I decided to not buy the Model 7. I am kicking mjyself in the britches, but the PCM70 still pleases me. I bought it 26 years ago and couldn't be happier.

Is Casey D. planning on doing the Surround thing still...?

Bloody Lucky You....


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## John Rodd (Jun 19, 2011)

I finally got around to putting the V2 chips into my Bricasti M7.

Been busy recording various projects lately.... but I have some mixing projects coming up, so I'll get to play with V2 reverbs soon.

:mrgreen:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 19, 2011)

If you're short on cash, don't do what I did: don't rent it!! You'll end up really, really wanting to buy one. I love it, and dread bringing it back next month...


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## tripit (Jun 19, 2011)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> If you're short on cash, don't do what I did: don't rent it!! You'll end up really, really wanting to buy one. I love it, and dread bringing it back next month...



Yeah, it's that good.


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## John Rodd (Nov 20, 2011)

I just recently finished mixing Jesper Kyd's score for *Assassins Creed Revelations*

http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/assass ... d477786756

and the two main reverbs that I used in the mix were a Bricasti M7, and a very rare passive spring reverb - made with tapered springs from a 1960's Baldwin home organ. Seriously. :mrgreen: 

http://zerotronics.com/mini-le/inside.html

both sounded awesome, and very different from each other. :wink:


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## gsilbers (Nov 20, 2011)

John Rodd @ Sun Nov 20 said:


> I just recently finished mixing Jesper Kyd's score for *Assassins Creed Revelations*
> 
> http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/assass ... d477786756
> 
> ...




hey john; how about the VSS3 that comes in the powercore 6000? 

or in that matter any of the other TC hardware verbs? 
(Reverb4000, M-oneXL, M2000, M3000)


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## John Rodd (Nov 20, 2011)

gsilbers @ Sun Nov 20 said:


> hey john; how about the VSS3 that comes in the powercore 6000?
> 
> or in that matter any of the other TC hardware verbs?
> 
> (Reverb4000, M-oneXL, M2000, M3000)



Heya

The VSS3 reverb algorithm is VERY old, and the much newer VSS4 algorithm (in the 4000 & 6000) is MUCH improved sounding for many things.

The 6000 also has the VSS4 -HD algorithm..... improved yet again.

I love my 6000's... I now own three. Insane, yes I know. :shock: 

_I use them for reverb, the fantastic mastering tools, and UnWrap... occasionally for EQ as well._


This 2003 S.O.S. article talks about the VSS4 and the 4000

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/articles/tcelecreverb4000.htm (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/a ... rb4000.htm)

I am a fan of the TC 4000 and they can sometimes be picked up used for a good price..... and they will work with any DAW, (analog or digital I/O) long after Powercore is dead. :wink: 

Oh wait.... Powercore IS dead. 

http://www.gearjunkies.com/news_info.php?news_id=6032

This is why I prefer real hardware units... as dedicated hardware cards such as Powercore end to die after a few years... and you soon lose the use of your investment.



I have used the M-oneXL, M2000, M3000..... (your other question)

but it has been a LONG time ..... so I can't comment. 8) 

cheers

John


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