# Do you find LASS a bit too complex to use ?



## muziksculp (Dec 7, 2013)

Hi,

I am just starting to learn how to use LASS 2.5 , I also have LASS LS 2.5, but have not gotten to it yet. 

What I notice is that there is a lot to learn, and get comfortable with when using LASS, which takes a bit of getting used to, since there are so many features, and options included, this is all great, but I also feel that this could kind of slow the creative process when working with a Strings Library. 

Eventually, I hope to get more acquainted, and comfortable with LASS, so that I get to use its great, and rich feature set. I have been watching the tutorial videos, and trying to absorb as much as possible, to incorporate it into my workflow when using LASS. 

So... My question is : 

Do you feel LASS is a bit too complex to use, compared to other String libraries ? 

i.e. If you are using LASS (2.5), how comfortable are you with using it, and are you using it more than other libraries you own due to its great feature set ? or is the complexity of LASS getting in your way, making you use other String Libraries that are faster, and easier to use to get very good results ?

Any advice, feedback, or special tips you have learned to speed up my learning, and eventually use of LASS would be very helpful.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## constaneum (Dec 7, 2013)

I initially find it hard to use but still learning every day. Getting more comfortable to use it. Generally, CC1, CC7 and CC (the one for controlling sustain/legato mode. forgot the CC number. hahaha) are just sufficient for a start if you prefer to keep it as simple usage. 

There are lots of flexible tuning out there which i'm still learning....Of coz if you compare it with other strings libraries which sound pretty good out of the box, you'll find that LASS might be a bit tedious. However, even if you love the "out of the box" strings sound, you'll still prefer to use LASS when one day you felt that the "out of the box" strings sound is just that confined/restricted. 

Another good thing about LASS is the colour and stage control which allows you to tweak the harshness/softness of the strings until you've found the right one for your usage. Other strings libraries' sound are just "There you go, that's the only sound you've got" and might ended up not your kind of cup of tea.


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 7, 2013)

It's not, it just appears that way because of all the options. 

Start with my articles on LASS on http://www.soniccontrol.tv (www.soniccontrol.tv). 

For the moment, SKIP stage and color and just get used to loading up the full legato sustain ensembles.

Then, insert another instance of Kontakt on another channel, and inside Kontakt, reset a full ensemble in Kontakt with C, B, and A for Violins 1 all set to MIDI channel 1. Repeat for Violins 2, etc.

Now you have two examples of the full string ensembles by section.

Now, because I haven't upgraded my system, I can't use stage and color yet. So check the manual for 2.5 and see how to change programs to load up Batman (which seems to be everyone's fav). Then do that with the two ensembles you have loaded up.

Do this much. Then repost and we'll tackle divisi.


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## Craig Sharmat (Dec 7, 2013)

LASS was extremely easy to use when it first came out and then all the features were added.

My advice , and don't take as the only way, is to just add the simple patches like normal libs to get going and add the features once you are comfortable which should not take long. I still use LASS mostly in the traditional manner. I would not necessarily do as Peter stated though I appreciate his advice. Learn what each individual section sounds like. You may find you only want to use divisi for certain pieces and you need to learn which sounds best (personally I like B's over A's in general).


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## gsilbers (Dec 7, 2013)

yes, it got complicated and the 2.x updates. i fiddled with the stage and color and keyswitches etc etc and even though it is cool at the end i am using the 1.x ensemble patches. yes, i am driving a ferrari to my daily commute to work and waisting all it can do. 
but it works for me. i do have HS and albion/symphobia. so i ust use the simple patches of lass to get a more closer , defined sound but with the room and tone of one of the above. sometimes.. depends on what i do. 

but yes, you can go nuts with the setup and using it. if you use templates then thats the best. spend some time building and getting to know your lass template. and then its a set it and forget it deal. oud need a lot of ram and disk speed.


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## constaneum (Dec 7, 2013)

traditional manner? U meant it's not suitable for epicness? hehe


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## Guido Negraszus (Dec 7, 2013)

I am certainly one of the users who uses LASS less these days because of the 2xxx update. While I appreciate the new features as an attempt to make a great library greater BUT I feel they failed collossally in terms of usability and user friendliness. I firmly believe that a (any) sample library should get easier to use and not more difficult. 

For example ProjectSam improved their Symphobia library (I think it was the 1.3 update) and at the same time offered a much easier to use GUI.

I'm just glad that I have other libraries to choose from. Having said all that, I still have my favourite LASS patches and will of course keep using them.


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## constaneum (Dec 7, 2013)

there goes the topic again. Flexibility vs Convenience. LOL !!


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## kdm (Dec 7, 2013)

muziksculp @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> So... My question is :
> 
> Do you feel LASS is a bit too complex to use, compared to other String libraries ?



Honestly, no. Seen this question here and GS, and not sure I understand what's difficult about it. There may be faster ways to do some things here or there with other libraries, but like any tool, it's really up to the user to learn how to make the most of it.

FWIW, I really don't use stage colors, AA, etc. I just setup my articulation layouts the way I want, mix it the way I want it to sound and save that into my template. Controller assignments work well, and I have a controller config setup to access everything relevant, including extra controls for my own customized patches. 

It isn't perfect (no string library is), but it is a great library in many respects.


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## Ah_dziz (Dec 7, 2013)

I don't find it hard to use at all. I also just use it in basically the form that it was released in. It's a great sounding and flexible library. I found everything they've added starting with the AA to be poorly implemented and unnecessary (with the exception of the atonal fx patches)


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## muziksculp (Dec 7, 2013)

Ah_dziz @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> I don't find it hard to use at all. I also just use it in basically the form that it was released in. It's a great sounding and flexible library. I found everything they've added starting with the AA to be poorly implemented and unnecessary (with the exception of the atonal fx patches)



I see your point. But... I am starting with version 2.5, so I have no clue what it started as when it was first released. Version 2.5 has a lot of features that I'm trying to learn, and put to good use. I feel that these new features are good, but a bit convoluted to use. I might add that I'm not a big Kontakt GUI fan, so adding lots of scripting features, with dedicated menus in Kontakt might at first seem like a good thing, but I feel it just makes working with LASS a bit overly-complicated. 

i.e. VSL VI-Pro 2 is a powerful, flexible, and complex tool, but it is easier to use, quite a bit less convoluted, and more intuitive to use given the way VI-Pro 2 is designed. 

imho. once a developer over saturates Kontakt with features, it becomes less productive, and more convoluted of a tool to use comfortably, and get productive with. Having said this, I like the way LASS sounds, and would not mind putting the extra effort, and hours to learn to use it to its potential. But I wish it was a bit more intuitive, and straigh-forward in terms of design, or maybe it should have just focused on the most important features that one needs, and kept things a bit more streamlined, so that the user is not too confused, and have to spend a lots of hours just learning to use a librarie's features. 

Please note that I appreciate all the hard work Audiobro has done, to make this a great library, with a rich, and flexible feature set. I just feel that there is quite a bit of a learning, and adapting period to properly use LASS (2.5)'s features as Audiobro has intended when they designed this library. 

Thanks for the feedback, help and tips. I will report back in the near future with some feedback on how I'm getting along with LASS (2.5). 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Ah_dziz (Dec 7, 2013)

muziksculp @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> Ah_dziz @ Sat Dec 07 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't find it hard to use at all. I also just use it in basically the form that it was released in. It's a great sounding and flexible library. I found everything they've added starting with the AA to be poorly implemented and unnecessary (with the exception of the atonal fx patches)
> ...



I just ignore all of the multiscripted wackiness they have. I use the 2.5 patches too. I simply load up the sustains, legatos, staccs, spics, trems, and pizz of each divisi of each section into it's own kontakt, load up my own keyswitching multiscript, and use it like I would any other library. 

I've used a couple of the ARC based multis from time to time when I needed something they were supposed to do for a project, but setting up ARC for my own template seems like a giant headache for very little gain so I just pretend it doesn't exist most of the time. Likewise, the autoarranger has never worked reliably for me so I write my divisi the old timey way by playing each line individually, or by arming all the channels and playing one line and editing the harmonies in after the fact. 

I agree that the kontakt interface isn't the best place to implement complex configuration options. Developers often times over complicate things when they try to add features via kontakt.


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## Guido Negraszus (Dec 7, 2013)

Maybe Audiobro should consider (in a future update) a "LASS Easy" patch which is similar to Symphobia or Spitfire. Just the day to day important stuff on one single page. Maybe even without the divisi. Just so you can simply choose all the articulations in one simple interface. This would please both parties: those who love to dig deep can do so already and those who just want quick results without any hassle. Just an idea.


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## Conor (Dec 7, 2013)

LASS is the most intuitive string library I've used. Of course, that's probably because I spent weeks figuring out how to set it up just like I wanted, in order to make it that way.  Well worth it though!


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## feck (Dec 7, 2013)

Yes, overall I do. I love that it has all the features, yet I can't help but think that if Andrew were to figure out a way to overhaul the whole GUI/naming/setup functionality to be something more straightforward (like CineStrings or Spitfire stuff) it would be a whole lot more fun to use, and would most likely boost sales as well. Just my 2 cents.


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## muziksculp (Dec 7, 2013)

CobraTrumpet @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> LASS is the most intuitive string library I've used. Of course, that's probably because I spent weeks figuring out how to set it up just like I wanted, in order to make it that way.  Well worth it though!



Hi,

imho. spending weeks figuring out how to set it up ≠ most intuitive string library :roll:


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## kdm (Dec 7, 2013)

A couple of weeks really isn't that much to spend working with a core part of a template given that this is a career that requires years of study and hard work to begin to pursue seriously.

I think it's worth planning for a bit of upfront work to get what you want out of it. 

For now you could ignore the scripted features in LASS and just setup a template with the articulations you need, how you need them - divisi, non-divisi/sectional, whatever works best. For 2-part divisi, I typically use A+B for one voice, and C for another, so I have A, B and C for each art, for each section - no full sections. I just track A, B and C simultaneously for full section parts. Some might prefer the full section patches for that. 

2.5 adds "marcato" patches - not true marcato samples, but worth adding to the template for some uses.

Another tip, if you are somewhat adept at mixing - setup your own EQs. I turned off the stock EQ on every patch (yep, there goes a day, lol), and setup my own for each section. LASS has some mid-reflections to it that make it a little on the harsher side, but a little EQ can tame it enough to be of little consequence in use.


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## clonewar (Dec 7, 2013)

I think the complexity and confusion is really in the ARC script, which seems to be pushing Kontakt to it's scripting limits. Adding the Stage and Color option directly in each patch in the 2.5 update was a great idea. There are probably a lot of LASS users not using the ARC script and missing out on S&C.


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## dcoscina (Dec 7, 2013)

It's a great library and I use it. Sometimes I layer it with Cinematic Strings because I find LASS very detailed which is good.


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## ryanstrong (Dec 7, 2013)

I don't even bother with the ARC. Entirely way to complicated. The idea is great but how they executed on that idea was not at all naturally intuitive and found it easier to add "stage" and "color" with my own reverbs and EQs respectively.

*The two biggest things I love about LASS...*
1. All the divis and solo articulations - it's so amazing to build an entire string arrangement with all these options. It makes writing for strings fun. I discovered the beauty of counterpoint because of this.

2. The portamentos and glissandos built-in - at first it was hard to perform but once you got a hang of it, it's so wonderful to be able to slur and create emotion on the fly when you need to.

*The two biggest things I find cumbersome to work with...*
1. The recording/tone of the library - it's brittle it's not sweet or lush by any means and most of the time I want that kind of sound. SO you really have to massage each patch with EQ, and early reflections reverb to get it to a level where it doesn't sound... well brittle is the best word I can use.

2. This is a pro/con a double edge sword, but the dry recording and getting them to sit in a room. If you know how to play with early reflections and tails this gets easier to deal with. I like being able to put these strings into a small studio or into a large hall. The root of this problem though lies in problem no. 1 in my opinion. If the tone was sweeter I think it could be easier to deal with.

The cons are slowly beginning to outweigh the pros as newer string libraries hit the market. However newer string libraries still haven't totally done LASS's two pros as good as LASS does it in my opinion.


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## Conor (Dec 7, 2013)

muziksculp @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> CobraTrumpet @ Sat Dec 07 said:
> 
> 
> > LASS is the most intuitive string library I've used. Of course, that's probably because I spent weeks figuring out how to set it up just like I wanted, in order to make it that way.  Well worth it though!
> ...



I mean "intuitively playable," easy to get good performances out of, behaves exactly as I expect it to with little to no further tweaking.

That first hurdle's kind of a b*tch though, yes.


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## Peter Alexander (Dec 7, 2013)

Craig Sharmat @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> LASS was extremely easy to use when it first came out and then all the features were added.
> 
> My advice , and don't take as the only way, is to just add the simple patches like normal libs to get going and add the features once you are comfortable which should not take long. I still use LASS mostly in the traditional manner. I would not necessarily do as Peter stated though I appreciate his advice. Learn what each individual section sounds like. You may find you only want to use divisi for certain pieces and you need to learn which sounds best (personally I like B's over A's in general).



What I suggested is what you basically suggested.

My first rec was to set up and use the LASS legato ensemble patches as is, out of the box. 

My second rec is based on interviews with other composers as to how they set up their own LASS ensembles. The most often reported method was, using violins 1 as an example:

1. Insert a Kontakt instance in a track
2. double click and open Kontakt
3. set up within that single instance for violins 1 C, B, and A all set to MIDI Channel 1
4. Play keyboard

You now have two ensemble versions to play with. The first is the factory setting and then this, a more custom setting. 

See which approach you like and experiment from there.

I hope I've clarified this.


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## Casiquire (Dec 7, 2013)

I'd be more than willing to help anybody with LASS because I'm an obnoxious fanboy, so anybody who has issues with it feel free to PM me or post on the Audiobro forums because they're probably the most responsive forums I've seen. Andrew or Sebastian themselves respond, sometimes near-instantly, to pretty much every support post. Or if you don't feel like it, as I said, I'm willing to help :o)

Personally I just take the library's features as needed. If you don't need to use Stage and Color, don't load it. There's more than enough in the library to confuse somebody just learning it. Also LASS is sort of pushing Kontakt's boundaries which is part of what makes the ARC awkward sometimes--they're scripting in a pretty unusual way to get more options out of Kontakt.

Ryanstrong - You don't need to use the ARC to use the color profiles. The colors are available in each patch at the top left and are a very easy way to get LASS to sound lush. Pick a sound from the dropdown menu and switch it on, couldn't be easier. I think that minimizes the Cons a bit ;o) And don't forget that LASS hits forte when the modwheel is at like 60, FFF at like 100 so the sound is much warmer in the 30-70 range and should rarely go higher than that.

All in all I've never felt like I need a new string library because LASS is so expressive already with crazy flexibility, and LASS+Color Profiles+MIR=HEAVEN. Until you're fully comfortable with just loading individual patches without the ARC though, stick with just one patch at a time. Ease into the ARC's wealth of options and don't rush yourself with learning it. One you learn it though there's really nothing like it.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 7, 2013)

It is a simple equation, whether LASS, HS or any other: you do not get both a great range of capability/flexibility AND ""intuitively playable," easy to get good performances out of, behaves exactly as I expect it to with little to no further tweaking."

It is like saying, "I want to be a great player but I do not want to spend a lot of hours in the practice room." 

It doesn't work that way.


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## Andrew Aversa (Dec 7, 2013)

Unfortunately I have to agree that LASS2/2.5 seemed to complicate things quite a bit. It's one of the few libraries I've used where I actually could not figure it out even WITH the manual. I contacted support, who were very patient, but overall it just left me not wanting to use the library at all. Now when I do use it, I basically don't even touch the UI whatsoever because it's so hard to use. It's a shame because I LOVE how realistic LASS sounds.. I've used it on various big game scores to great effect. I just can't wrap my head around how they have the scripting set up.


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## tdavilio (Dec 7, 2013)

First of all, I think Lass is great and use it often. My problem with the arc is the keyswitching. I spent quite a bit of time working with it but opted to use banks with Mind Control. The stage and color I find easy. I also like the a.R.T. in the Arc so you don't have to set each track In the multi to the rhythm you want to use.
Happy Holidays!


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## Ah_dziz (Dec 7, 2013)

tdavilio @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> First of all, I think Lass is great and use it often. My problem with the arc is the keyswitching. I spent quite a bit of time working with it but opted to use banks with Mind Control. The stage and color I find easy. I also like the a.R.T. in the Arc so you don't have to set each track In the multi to the rhythm you want to use.
> Happy Holidays!


Even ART for me was an unnecessary bloat on the library. I can't see how it's any easier than just programming midi and copy pasting as needed. 

As I said the out of the box sound on this library is spectacular to me and it plays well. I will sometimes layer some vsl solo or chamber strings for focus and I find this gives me the most flexibility on the market. Other libraries are recorded in nifty spaces, but you end up stuck in those spaces and thus with far fewer options. I guess coming from an engineering background gives me an advantage here, but even listening to the more recent offerings from Spitfire and cinesamples I can't hear much I can't accomplish with my setup. And I hear various things that would limit my choices for sounds which is why I haven't sprung for any of the newer libraries.

I personally feel that lass is the best on the market with sable coming in at a very close second for the core of a virtual string setup. The complexity is completely optional. I have a custom script I use to put all my articulations on one channel but I would heartily recommend mind control from OTS to anybody using LASS as a great way of combining instruments on one track. It's insanely useful in tons of situations and far better than the keyswitching implementation in the ARC multiscript.

In short I feel that anybody struggling with LASS should pare back their use of the library to it's simplest form for starters and use the more esoteric and confusing configuration options down the road when and if you feel they are needed.


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## Ed (Dec 8, 2013)

Guido Negraszus @ Sat Dec 07 said:


> Maybe Audiobro should consider (in a future update) a "LASS Easy" patch which is similar to Symphobia



We should start a new abbreviation. FPTLS. For People That Like Symphobia. Pronounced "F Petals". We can also say "For Petals". So we can find people saying, "LASS needs to have a special patch for special petals."


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 8, 2013)

Huh - some, um, surprising responses so far!

In use, LASS for me is - by a huge margin - the easiest and most flexible library I have with a tone I love, and I do use all the features. If I lost CineStrings and Sable tomorrow, I'd be a little upset, but if I lost LASS I'd be inconsolable - its tailored to me, and it's seamless and near-perfect in practice.

The flip side is - it was the most complex library I have to get it to that point in the first place. But to me that's an easy trade - I'll spend days understanding and sorting it because I knew I wanted the end game, and that has paid dividends over the years. ALWAYS REMEMBER THE END GAME! So first I'll describe how I use it, than very briefly how I got there.

*In use*. I host in VE Pro. I have four tracks per instrument, longs (including sordino) and shorts for both ensemble and first chair, and three bonus multis (two my own custom ones - a soaring mono lead in octaves and a first / 2nd chair chamber multi). I then use the Avid Artist in Cubase (via quick controls) to control CC1, vibrato, port speed, auto arranger on off, legato on / off, sustain, expression, all on named motorised faders so I can easily see what I'm doing. I have a little Korg Nanokey keyboard on top of my main keyboard set to C-1 to hit all the keyswitches, which I keep consistent. Others will have it set up very differently, but that's how I like to work. I can very quickly and easily get exactly what I need, and can see what I'm doing.

For me, auto-arranger is one of the greatest miracles in all the sample world. If writing polyphonically, the AA switch I may as well label real / fake, it's such a dramatic difference. If using the sordinos and AA combined, you'll probably burst into tears on the first chord. Of course you can write per divisi for even better results but that's too slow for a hack like me.

*How I got there*. The short answer - via the Audibro forums. That's the place for the details, it's the best developer forum by a mile. The Audiobro guys are very active, and the rest of the community pitches in well too. The ARC is a beast, make no mistake, but there is real logic to it once you've got your head around the concepts. It's all about setting up though, its not something to touch in day to day use (unless you want to change the color, say, which is pretty easy once set up).

For efficiency, I do several things - 1, host in VE Pro (a way more efficient engine than Cubase's I find); 2- run purged samples throughout from SSD; 3 - delete all the reverbs from LASS and just run two globally in Cubase, 1 for early reflections and 1 for tail. I do run first chairs along with ensembles on a separate audio fader - a great idea in theory but I find in practice I tend not to use this and just add the first chairs from their own midi track if I need them. I think the color feature is terrific, and solves anyone's out-of-the-box tone issues with one click.

I turn up the AA default ms value from 25 to 50, which is the one where it works for me nearly all the time (and I just edit out the occasional blip).

Well those are the basics I guess. It's my Rock of Gibraltar. I'm very happy with the trade of complexity vs useability because - and this can't be over-emphasised - the complexity it all in the initial setting up, and the end game is to have your own custom system that is individually tailored to how you like to work, respond instantly and give you the sound you want. The legato transitions are perfect, and you can play pretty darn quickly (a runs sim would be the icing on the cake). There's no other library out there that can do auto divisi anything like this good, and overall LASS brings exquisite realism, phenomenally quick working and even system efficiency. LASS to me remains the greatest string library available by some margin because of this unique combination.


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## Guido Negraszus (Dec 8, 2013)

Guy, you just answered the posters question. You agree that it is hard to learn. That was the whole point of this post. I've heard it many times incl. on the LASS forum. You have to study/learn it the hard way but once you get there its great etc. I purchased 13 sample libraries this year. Imagine every library would be as complicated as LASS then where do we end up? When are we suppose to make music? I don't agree that it is the same as learning an instrument as some suggest. My instrument is Kontakt, not LASS. I read every manual from every library I purchased because I want to get the most out of it. However, with LASS that's quite different because it tries to reinvent the wheel. 

I purchased LASS 3 or 4years ago. Now I wouldn't even look at it. I found a lot of comments on the Audiobro forum (when 2.0 came out) and the videos off putting.
Anyway, just my opinion.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 8, 2013)

Guido Negraszus @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> Guy, you just answered the posters question. You agree that it is hard to learn. That was the whole point of this post. I've heard it many times incl. on the LASS forum. You have to study/learn it the hard way but once you get there its great etc. I purchased 13 sample libraries this year. Imagine every library would be as complicated as LASS then where do we end up? When are we suppose to make music? I don't agree that it is the same as learning an instrument as some suggest. My instrument is Kontakt, not LASS. I read every manual from every library I purchased because I want to get the most out of it. However, with LASS that's quite different because it tries to reinvent the wheel



...and there's the reason why it's still, by far, my #1 string library while others come and go. If you never get your hands dirty with it, you may as well never have bought it because it's only going to be a tenth of what it can be to you. Compared to learning an instrument, a few days of set up on LASS is of course trivial. If it were the case that other libraries were fast and quick to use and gave you the same benefits, then that would be different but so far nothing else has come close really.

And actually, if there were LA Scoring Brass, Winds and Perc, that's probably a couple of week's investment in learning your tools that would be incredibly well spent time imo. In fact it might be a lot less cos I suspect the concepts for the other libs will be broadly similar to LASS.

Forgot to say - there's a ton of starter multis in LASS 2.5 that should give you an idea of the power of the thing. If they don't do anything for you then fine - LASS probably isn't right for you. But if they do - put in the hours and get your dream library at your fingertips.


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## Guido Negraszus (Dec 8, 2013)

Fair enough. Well, it seems that there are two groups of users: one group is willing to go all the way and the other group wants quick results.

Don't forget though that LASS 1 wasn't that complicated. I guess that's where my disappointment comes from. Normally when companies improve their product and release an update it gets better AND easier. With LASS 2 it got better but NOT easier.


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## Markus Kohlprath (Dec 8, 2013)

I wonder why the new Keyswitch Multis from 2.5 aren´t mentioned in the posts before. Or at least I didn´t see.
These have been the biggest improvement regarding simplicity in the setup to my opinion. Last year I spent days finding out and setting up articulations with keyswitches. After the update I just click on the Keyswitch Multi (medium in my case) and I have a perfect setup of every section per Kontakt instance. Stage and colour can be applied instantly to all patches via arc. If you want to change you have to do it 5 times- for each instance and you have all articulations set up new.
Not really complicated isnt´t it?


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 8, 2013)

Markus Kohlprath @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> I wonder why the new Keyswitch Multis from 2.5 aren´t mentioned in the posts before. Or at least I didn´t see.
> These have been the biggest improvement regarding simplicity in the setup to my opinion. Last year I spent days finding out and setting up articulations with keyswitches. After the update I just click on the Keyswitch Multi (medium in my case) and I have a perfect setup of every section per Kontakt instance. Stage and colour can be applied instantly to all patches via arc. If you want to change you have to do it 5 times- for each instance and you have all articulations set up new.
> Not really complicated isnt´t it?



That's great to hear - I'm already set up with mine so never checked them out. Muziksculp, have you tried these?


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## germancomponist (Dec 8, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> It is a simple equation, whether LASS, HS or any other: you do not get both a great range of capability/flexibility AND ""intuitively playable," easy to get good performances out of, behaves exactly as I expect it to with little to no further tweaking."
> 
> It is like saying, "I want to be a great player but I do not want to spend a lot of hours in the practice room."
> 
> It doesn't work that way.



+1

The same when it comes to real (virtual) synthesizers vs synth-rompler... .


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## muziksculp (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi,

Thanks for all the interesting, and helpful feedback. 

I have been watching the various LASS (2.5) tutorial videos posted by Audiobro. 

Well... They are quite helpful, they tend to be explaining each part of the puzzle. But there is no video tutorial that kind of glues all the pieces of the puzzle together, to give a more focused view of the whole library.

What I feel is missing, is a very good, and comprehensive video that puts the various bits, and pieces of the puzzle together. Maybe a 3, 4, or 5 part, comprehensive video tutorial series, showing the entire procedure of setting things up, and using the various features in a production environment might be a very useful tool for learning LASS 2.5's features, basically ... Getting a clear understanding, and visualization of the big picture of what LASS 2.5 can offer, and how to achieve it in an intuitive manner. 

I'm willing to put the time into learning, experimenting, and customizing LASS for my musical needs. 

I simply posted this to get your feedback, just in case I'm missing something, or if I possibly have a misconception regarding the complexity of learning, and eventually putting LASS (2.5) to good use. Given all the positive feedback I usually come across regarding how great LASS is, I felt I might have to check if I'm alone in feeling that LASS (2.5) is a bit too complex. Reading some of the feedback here, I feel that I'm not alone in feeling that it is a bit too complex, especially when compared to other String Libraries. 

It looks like time spent learning LASS 2.5 might be well worth the effort, and be very rewarding. (although I feel that Kontakt is another part of this whole system to blame, since it is not the friendliest sampler, and there is a threshold of user-friendliness when trying to build complex scripted tools in Kontakt that can be exceeded, giving rise to an end product that feels like a patched up system, compared to one that was designed in a more cohesive, more interconnected, tightly integrated environment, I feel that LASS 2.5 could have been a much friendlier, and easier to use system for the end-user if Kontakt was better designed to do this). 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## marcotronic (Dec 8, 2013)

muziksculp @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for all the interesting, and helpful feedback.
> 
> ...



+1000 - that's exactly how I feel about LASS. It's my main strings lib but I hardly use any of the features that were added in 2.x. Have tried to get into those features now and again but I always gave up due to the missing "glue" as Muziksculp already described. I have quite a bit of experience concerning "UX" user experience, usability etc. because of my main job (software dev (web based)) and I must say that LASS has probably the most non-intuitive handling of all strings libs I know...

Marco


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 8, 2013)

Again, Musikulp - have you tried the starter keyswitch multis bundled with 2.5? I understand they have done all the heavy lifting for you.

Macrotonic - it depends what you mean by non-intuitive. If you load the basic patches, they work just like anything else and are as easy as anything else. But LASS is unique in offering way more customisation, flexibility and harmonisation among the different instruments, which is where the ARC comes in. There's no other library that has attempted those things, so I don't think its fair to say "it's the least intuitive" - its apples and oranges imo.

And I can't emphasise enough - use the Audiobro forums, they are incredibly helpful and responsive. It's an incredible waste to buy LASS, muck around for 10 minutes with advanced features and give up. When you buy Audiobro, you're getting the most consistent, labour intensive samples and recordings, but you're also buying the very best support. Use it! 

And - always remember the end game. I've had hours of tedium and frustration, but it's all forgotten when its working just as you want. So often I go to use A N Other library, find its lumpy or what have you and just give up, returning to the safe and impeccable territory of LASS. You can either put in the time at the start in your own downtime (which is now MUCH simpler in 2.5 cos of the new starter multis), or you can fight with libraries in the heat of battle - I prefer the former.


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## mark812 (Dec 8, 2013)

It is, and that's why I use CS 2 most of the time.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 8, 2013)

OK, that does it. Someone privately asked me to do a LASS walkthrough and I thought I wasn't doing anything special so wasn't sure there was much point, but the number of people who own LASS and appear to be squandering the brilliance on their hard drives is just too distressing. Another Christmas walkthough task for me!


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## christerholm (Dec 8, 2013)

I don't find it that "difficult". The ARC system of course is a bit of a hassle to use, but it works well.

Of course if they would be able to redesign the GUI and give it a whole new interface where you have it all on the main instrument window instead of hidden in ARC scripts and just click buttons to enable / disable things, stage & color etc, that would be awesome.


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## Guido Negraszus (Dec 8, 2013)

Guy, I think this would be great. I certainly would watch it. A sort of "from a users point of view" video which explains it it all in one go without the deeper details.


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## JT (Dec 8, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> OK, that does it. Someone privately asked me to do a LASS walkthrough and I thought I wasn't doing anything special so wasn't sure there was much point, but the number of people who own LASS and appear to be squandering the brilliance on their hard drives is just too distressing. Another Christmas walkthough task for me!


Guy,

This would be great for you to do. I would look forward to whatever tips you can give.

I also am using LASS less these days, because of its complexity. At this point I much prefer using Sable, getting a great sound right out of the box and spending my time writing instead of tweaking.


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## marcotronic (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi Guy,
yes, loading the basic patches is simple. That's why I just use those and don't use any extra functionality that was introduced since V2.x.

A walkthrough would be very nice, indeed! Thanks a lot in advance!

marco


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## EwigWanderer (Dec 8, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ 8th December 2013 said:


> OK, that does it. Someone privately asked me to do a LASS walkthrough and I thought I wasn't doing anything special so wasn't sure there was much point, but the number of people who own LASS and appear to be squandering the brilliance on their hard drives is just too distressing. Another Christmas walkthough task for me!



Yes, that would be appreciated  

I own LASS 2.5 and LS. I do like the library and the divisi function is great. My main issue with LASS is the sound. Color function helps a bit, but to place the strings to same room like for example BWW is tough for me.

I'm thinking of trying MIR with Teldex venue and see if I could get the sound I'm after. Open lush sound. OT is releasing Berlin Strings, but still...I hate the fact that LASS is gathering dust on my Hard-drive. It was an expensive purchase for me couple years ago.

Does someone here use MIR and Teldex venue for LASS? It would be nice to hear some demos


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## 5Lives (Dec 8, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> OK, that does it. Someone privately asked me to do a LASS walkthrough and I thought I wasn't doing anything special so wasn't sure there was much point, but the number of people who own LASS and appear to be squandering the brilliance on their hard drives is just too distressing. Another Christmas walkthough task for me!



That would be MUCH appreciated Guy! But enjoy your Christmas with loved ones first and foremost


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## Conor (Dec 8, 2013)

OK, I understand my first post in this thread was clear as mud. Sorry about that.

I stand by everything I said in my second, though -- the one that got pilloried as being anti-practice or something (???). Let me offer my thoughts on LASS again, in greater detail and all at once, so as to avoid being quoted out-of-context by someone looking for a cheap "gotcha" moment. 

1) LASS is a complex library, yes, and it can be difficult and time-consuming to set it up, learn how it works, and tweak it to your liking. I personally spent a LOT of time on this because it was also the first time I had worked with Kontakt.

2) Now that I've set it up the way I want, it plays like a dream. Very expressive, very consistent. It feels like LASS gives me an accurate interpretation of my MIDI performance. When I re-record or tweak parts, it's almost always to get a better performance out of myself, not to make up for some inconsistency in the library.

3) LASS may be difficult to set up, but once set up, you have something that works very easily and intuitively "in the moment" when composing. IMHO, it was absolutely worth it.

Just as we put countless hours of practice into our instruments, so that when the time comes to perform, the technical details are pretty much taken care of -- NOW, after all that hard work, we find the basic act of playing our instruments intuitive and easy and we can focus our attention to a higher level (the group, the groove, the emotion of the music, etc.)

If this is still ambiguous, just read Guy's post instead. :D


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## ryanstrong (Dec 8, 2013)

Casiquire @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> Ryanstrong - You don't need to use the ARC to use the color profiles. The colors are available in each patch at the top left and are a very easy way to get LASS to sound lush. Pick a sound from the dropdown menu and switch it on, couldn't be easier. I think that minimizes the Cons a bit ;o)



Yes I know about the new easy-to-use color profiles in the update. That's great. But it's not creating new samples. It's just EQing them. And I already EQ them myself with my preferred EQ. So it's somewhat of a mute point. But I do appreciate you pointing that out! Others may not be aware of it. Thank you.



Casiquire @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> And don't forget that LASS hits forte when the modwheel is at like 60, FFF at like 100 so the sound is much warmer in the 30-70 range and should rarely go higher than that.



I did not know that! But that makes perfect sense because if you look at the modwheel data on all my LASS MIDI tracks you will see that it sits at the bottom of the range! So that makes sense. I didn't technically know why (now I do) but naturally I never raised the modwheel above the 70ish range.

Thanks for the input Casiquire!

I'm torn as to what I would want/expect for AudioBro regarding new development. Part of me wants to see what LASBrass would look like but to be honest... I'd love to see an entirely new recorded sample set of LASS. An all new product (not an update). With a selection of mic options in the GUI that include like vintage ribbon mics that were sent to tape to get a more rounded out sound in the highs and a richer mid-range. I still don't mind the 'dry recording' idea, there are plenty of wet libraries out there, but the recording/engineering could be a little more on the warmer, sweeter, lush side next time around.


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## Markus Kohlprath (Dec 8, 2013)

EwigWanderer @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> Guy Rowland @ 8th December 2013 said:
> 
> 
> > OK, that does it. Someone privately asked me to do a LASS walkthrough and I thought I wasn't doing anything special so wasn't sure there was much point, but the number of people who own LASS and appear to be squandering the brilliance on their hard drives is just too distressing. Another Christmas walkthough task for me!
> ...



I did a piece with MIR Teldec with LASS that might demonstrate what can be done- at least with my skills. Will post it tomorrow since I´m not in place right now.
I think it´s a great and also very flexible combination.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 8, 2013)

Wow, there really looks like a need for this kind of video, eh? I'm sure I can fit something in over the holiday period when the kids are off playing with their X-wii-craft-endos, but if anyone else feels the need to chime in first I'd be delighted 

I certainly don't consider myself to be an expert at the ARC, but I do know enough to get it up and running for what I need to do. Part of the key to it is to try to think logically through each step - it's absolutely a task that needs to be done not in a composing session. Put on a great CD or podcast (I reccommend Simon Mayo and Mark Kermode's Wittertainment weekly show on the BBC, and hello to Jason Isaacs).

Before I do it, I'll check out these new keyswitch multis that sounds like they'll save a heap-o-legwork. 

Conor - I agree with everything you say!

Ryan and Casquire - yup, I definitely agree staying in the lower part of CC for the main is right for LASS. It's nice to be able to cut through when you need to go full on, but it's the exception rather than the rule. Actually I don't want a new sample set, or at least a replacement one - don't really want more mic mixes either, I generally find they're pretty overated and getting a sweet mix of them all, relatively dry, is the best compromise for sound and resources, and I'd rather use outboard to change the space. However I would like a few bolt ons, especially a runs simulator for fast playing, preferably scripted like the new update to Sable will have and so be integrated in the main legato patches.

Rami - I wonder if LASS may indeed not be the right library for you in the end. If none of the stage and colors appeal then I'm not too sure how far else you can take it, though MIR or VSS might get a little more refinement. I take a SUPER-simple approach to the whole staging thing, which is just to use 2 aux chains for the whole orchestra! I just add ER and tail on a case by case basis - that's it. I use some of both with LASS. Probably my spatial positioning isn't super clever as a consequence, but nothing has especially bothered me doing it this way and I'm a big fan of simplicity (ironic in the context of this thread).

Markus - looking forward to your pieces


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## germancomponist (Dec 8, 2013)

Very good that you to explain yourself ready, Guy! This gives me hope that at least some people will learn the advantage of many opportunities to appreciate.


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## reddognoyz (Dec 8, 2013)

I hired someone to help me set up a full lass template. I wound up essentially using his set up, he send me the multi's and we spent a couple of hours going through them on the phone. 

It is complex, but I now have five tracks that cover my needs. 

I've spent quite a bit if time working with lass and I am still daunted by it I have to say. The starter templates in 2.5 are great! I haven't been able to successfully get the 2.5 scripts and instruments into my template though. I am going to try again.

I had no problem setting up a new template in 2.5, I just like the sound of the template I'm using


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## EwigWanderer (Dec 8, 2013)

Markus: That would be great! 

Guy: Maybe LASS isn't for me. I do like the demos on Audiobros site though, made with "original" LASS. I might think it too much..meaning less is more in many occasions.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 8, 2013)

EwigWanderer @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> Markus: That would be great!
> 
> Guy: Maybe LASS isn't for me. I do like the demos on Audiobros site though, made with "original" LASS. I might think it too much..meaning less is more in many occasions.



"She was a fair LASS" is still one of the all time great VI demos by Colin O Malley. I believe it only used fairly minimal effects - keeping CC1 low does so much.


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## EwigWanderer (Dec 8, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ 8th December 2013 said:


> EwigWanderer @ Sun Dec 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Markus: That would be great!
> ...



Yes it is. Listening it right now (http://audiobro.com/demos/music/) When the strings start at the beginning it's instant "shawshank redemption" / "buy this library...now" feeling  
I saw Colin's tips about how he used Altiverb on Audiobros forum. I don't own Altiverb but I have QL Spaces and the one which comes with Cubase. I don't wanna give up yet so I will try to pursuit that sound I'm after.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 8, 2013)

The only thing I don't like about LASS is having to use keyswitches for everything. I'd like to have a setup similar to the Cinesamples way where velocity or a cc control can change articulations from different shorts and sustains.

Is there any way to trigger different LASS articulations by velocity or something other than keyswitch?


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## dedersen (Dec 9, 2013)

Interesting thread. I am not sure I agree that LASS is necessarily complex. If you simply treat it like a standard sample library, all you need to do is just load a patch and start playing. Thing is, LASS is a highly configurable string library. It conforms to pretty much any workflow you wish. Of course, with great power comes great complexibility...or something like that.

I think to really get the most out of the many options that LASS offers, you need to accept that you have to learn how to use it. And, as Guy rightly points out, this is something that does require a bit of thought. Mainly though, that is because the you need to actually give some thought as to what works best for YOU and your way of working, rather than just adapting your workflow to the library.

The Audiobro forums are really a great resource that you should absolutely take advantage of if you find the ARC tricky to get going with. There have been some very valuable discussions about workflow on the forums, and about how to make LASS conform to different needs.

Once everything is setup, I absolutely believe that LASS is the easiest, least complex string library out there, because it is just so damn playable. The legato in LASS is still unparalleled, I think. I've bought a lot of other string libraries since buying LASS, but they've all ended up playing second violin (ugh, the pun...) to LASS. I use them to add a different color, or for layering. Also, if I need to do really big, hybrid stuff, LASS can struggle a bit on its own. The basses in LASS is a slightly weakness for me, unless I am explicitly going for a smaller sound. Something about the bass string section just doesn't really work when it's split up into smaller divisi sections. It lacks a bit of bottom end power so I tend to use other libraries for that. For lyrical melodic lines though, it's really tought to beat LASS. It almost feels effortless for me to sculpt string lines in LASS, something about the legato and the way the dynamic modwheel control works just really clicks with me.

The biggest issue with LASS from the start was always the sound. They're very raw recordings. The upshot of this is that you can pretty much sculp the sound into whatever you want, except of course, pre-ARC, it might take you a lot of work to get there. With the colour tool introduced in LASS 2.0, this point is almost rendered mute, I think. It's much more lush out-of-the-box now.

Looking forward to seeing your walkthrough, Guy, I am sure that will help a lot of people.

In the interest of openness, I should state that I am affiliated with Audiobro in the sense that I serve as a moderator on the Audiobro forum and am signed up for beta testing.


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## dedersen (Dec 9, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> The only thing I don't like about LASS is having to use keyswitches for everything. I'd like to have a setup similar to the Cinesamples way where velocity or a cc control can change articulations from different shorts and sustains.
> 
> Is there any way to trigger different LASS articulations by velocity or something other than keyswitch?


Not directly via the ARC, no. If you're on Cubase I guess you could toss a logical editor on your track and use that to convert CC or velocity to keyswitches? Never looked into it, I'm fully invested in expression maps and keyswitches.


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## Mike McCarthy (Dec 9, 2013)

You can change LASS articulations using program changes.

1.load a Bank in Kontakt
2.Drag and drop as many articulations as you like to the empty slots in the Bank
[eg. legatos to Bank 001, staccatos to Bank 010, etc.]
3.Program change 1 = Legato, Program change 10 = Stacc

...and they chase, so you're always hearing the correct articulation :D 

Mike.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 9, 2013)

Mike McCarthy @ Mon Dec 09 said:


> You can change LASS articulations using program changes.
> 
> 1.load a Bank in Kontakt
> 2.Drag and drop as many articulations as you like to the empty slots in the Bank
> ...



I'm not too familiar with banks but is this possible while still using the ARC? If you have 4 groups (3 + 1st chair) for every articulation, then just to cover the basics of one section, you might have 12 ensembles (spic, stacc, legato/sustains). So to adjust stage and color and other parameters you'd want in common, wouldn't you have to adjust all 12 separately unless you used the ARC?


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## Markus Kohlprath (Dec 10, 2013)

I promised to post an example using LASS with MIR Teldec. It´s not exactly the theme of the thread but since it´s been discussed here I post it.
Hope I will not embarrass myself since there are so many great demos and I´m just starting with orchestration.
It´s a little bit long for a demo but since there are different articulations used it might be interesting for one or the other. 

The first version is my original Mix with MIR Sage Hall (Tail reduced) and a Vienna Suite custom Hybrid Reverb on top ( I like it bright in this case).

[https://soundcloud.com/markus-kohlprath/a-prelude-to-victory-1113-ok-2]

THe second is same piece with just the Teldec Room 

[https://soundcloud.com/markus-kohlprath/a-prelude-to-victory-1113-ok]

And a little piece that shows the strings in teldec room with additional algo rev.
It´s very related to the film scene- thats why there is strange rhythm in the beginning

[https://soundcloud.com/markus-kohlprath/kimono-vers2-ok1]

Hope this helps making a decision regarding LASS with MIR (and not will be a negative example...)
It´s made with LASS 2.0 and no stage and colour.

Cheers 
Ma[/url]rkus


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## Markus Kohlprath (Dec 10, 2013)

I somehow didn´t understand that with the url. Sorry :oops: 

Try once again
[/url]
LASS with MIR Sage Hall and Hybrid rev
https://soundcloud.com/markus-kohlprath/a-prelude-to-victory-1113-ok-2

LASS with just MIR Teldec 
https://soundcloud.com/markus-kohlprath/a-prelude-to-victory-1113-ok

LASS with MIR Teldec and Hybrid rev
https://soundcloud.com/markus-kohlprath/kimono-vers2-ok1


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## Maestro77 (Dec 10, 2013)

I picked up LASS Full a few years ago and could never really figure out how to create keyswitches with it, despite Audiobro's tutorial videos. It just didn't work for me so I stuck with using CS2. The 2.5 update came with several multis that were already set up with keyswitches and proper routings. Just load up the multi and you're good to go. Now it's my go-to strings library. I still think LASS sounds better than anything else on the market, despite its age. Granted, I don't use too much of the deeper controls as I still find them a bit more than I need.

@Guy, I'd LOVE to see a video or two from you on this library. There aren't very many good ones out there. One particular thing I'd like to know - after I've loaded up my multi, how to I apply a Stage & Color preset to the whole thing at once? I can't seem to get that to work and always end up applying an outside reverb.


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## germancomponist (Dec 10, 2013)

Maestro77 @ Tue Dec 10 said:


> I still think LASS sounds better than anything else on the market, despite its age. ...



It is still one of the best "sounding" string libraries.


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## dedersen (Dec 10, 2013)

Maestro77 @ Tue Dec 10 said:


> @Guy, I'd LOVE to see a video or two from you on this library. There aren't very many good ones out there. One particular thing I'd like to know - after I've loaded up my multi, how to I apply a Stage & Color preset to the whole thing at once? I can't seem to get that to work and always end up applying an outside reverb.


Hope you'll allow me to answer in Guy's place. 

I assume the multi you are refering to is one of the LASS 2.5 keyswitch multis, that come with the ARC loaded. In that case you need to navigate to the ARC Stage & Color page. Here, select your desired color preset in the "Presets" dropdown. Now, one important thing to understand about the ARC is that nothing really happens unless you transmit your changes to the patches. To do this, you need to first select the patches / midi channels to transmit to. This is accomplished via the small triangle just below the "ARC" logo, between digits 8 and 9. In your case, simply choose "Select All" in the dropdown list that appears. Then, click the blue Transmit button and wait for the patches to update. If you want to apply the color only, with no reverb, make sure you turn off the FX button on the lower right part of the page.

That should do it. Let me know if it doesn't work, or if some of the above requires clarification.


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## alligatorlizard (Dec 12, 2013)

There's a lot to get your head around with LASS, but ultimately this is all good, and is totally worth the time. It's very customisable, it's tools are very precise, and it does all make logical sense. 

I'd recommend starting with the keyswitches included in 2.5, and then gradually tweaking the various settings on these to taste. For example, I've reduced levels of 1st chairs, added some subtle timing and pitch randomisations across the divisis sections, adjusted chord detection times etc to give consistent latency, and various other things, and now have a set of keyswitches that behave and sound exactly how I want. Once you get to this stage, I think LASS is suddenly incredibly easy to use, but I did have to spend a while on their forum before understanding all the settings.


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## reddognoyz (Dec 12, 2013)

I have a template I've been using for a while and it sounds great! very nice spacious hall and not harsh at all, I know a common complaint I've heard about Lass. 
I've tried to update it to 2.5 but I've screwed it up a couple of times. When I get a free day I'm going to try again, it is complicated no doubt about that! well worth it though

I was doing a scene yesterday where I needed a real tough rough spicatto celli/bass octave thing. I decided to add the celli and bass sections to my set up, just straight out of the box and ...Bam!! woa! I forgot how punchy those suckers are very burly at hi velocity!


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## Maestro77 (Dec 12, 2013)

@dederson, thanks! I knew it was something simple I was overlooking.


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## Steve Steele (Dec 14, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> but if I lost LASS I'd be inconsolable - its tailored to me, and it's seamless and near-perfect in practice.
> 
> For me, auto-arranger is one of the greatest miracles in all the sample world.



Well said. Once I got used to LASS, it became the _easiest_ library to get work done in quickly. Auto-arranger and their LPG just always works for me.


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## joshua (Dec 14, 2013)

You want certain videos? Ask Audiobro guys. I used to lurk their forum a lot, I noticed that the latest update incorporated so many user requests.


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## Casiquire (Dec 14, 2013)

Guido Negraszus @ Sun 08 Dec said:


> Don't forget though that LASS 1 wasn't that complicated. I guess that's where my disappointment comes from. Normally when companies improve their product and release an update it gets better AND easier. With LASS 2 it got better but NOT easier.



You can still use the library the same way you did with LASS 1. You don't need to use the ARC, AA, ART at all. You can easily just load a patch and play.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 21, 2013)

Ok, so here's a 30m walkthrough - or fumble-through - of how I use LASS in my template, and an overview of using the ARC. It's hardly definitive, but it might be useful to some folks, who knows?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFrhtGthJfA


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## Guido Negraszus (Dec 21, 2013)

Guy, the video only shows in 360p. Is this the way you intended? Looks very blur on my screen.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 21, 2013)

Guido Negraszus @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Guy, the video only shows in 360p. Is this the way you intended? Looks very blur on my screen.



EDIT - try now on this new link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFrhtGthJfA


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## Maestro77 (Dec 21, 2013)

Thx Guy, I've been looking forward to this walk-through. Am I crazy or does the video only display lo-rez? I've changed it to 720p on YouTube but it doesn't seem to get any better, still blurry and can't read anything. Could the uploaded source file accidentally be lo-rez? Sry to complain, love your videos. Just want to be able to follow along. Thx!


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 21, 2013)

Maestro77 @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Thx Guy, I've been looking forward to this walk-through. Am I crazy or does the video only display lo-rez? I've changed it to 720p on YouTube but it doesn't seem to get any better, still blurry and can't read anything. Could the uploaded source file accidentally be lo-rez? Sry to complain, love your videos. Just want to be able to follow along. Thx!



It's deffo 720 now. But I generally find a problem with youtube in that it gets "stuck" in a res. Short of reloading and clicking 720 quickly / mucking about with the timeline, never been sure how to fix it...


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## muziksculp (Dec 21, 2013)

Hello Guy,

Many Thanks for posting LASS video tutorial. 

I haven't had the chance to watch it yet, but I'm sure it will be very helpful to get a clearer idea of how to use this library. 

Cheers, and Happy Holidays 

Muziksculp


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## Arbee (Dec 22, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Guido Negraszus @ Sat Dec 21 said:
> 
> 
> > Guy, the video only shows in 360p. Is this the way you intended? Looks very blur on my screen.
> ...


Thanks Guy, much appreciated - really enjoyed it (and probably the closest I've come to pushing the buy button on LASS after watching this) o-[][]-o 

.


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## muk (Dec 22, 2013)

Yes, very interesting and helpful. Thanks a lot Guy.


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## Guido Negraszus (Dec 22, 2013)

Thanks Guy. Much appreciated. However, my opinion hasn't changed. It's a complicated mess (for me). I won't bother. I'll continue to use LASS as I did with V1, I just load the patches I need. 

For me strings are just a small part of the daily routine. I'm not a classical composer/arranger who needs to have this extensive control/access.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 22, 2013)

Guido Negraszus @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> Thanks Guy. Much appreciated. However, my opinion hasn't changed. It's a complicated mess (for me). I won't bother. I'll continue to use LASS as I did with V1, I just load the patches I need.
> 
> For me strings are just a small part of the daily routine. I'm not a classical composer/arranger who needs to have this extensive control/access.



Fair dos - I hope at least though it demonstrates that, once set up (allow a day) you can forget about everything else and it's incredibly simple in everyday use. For me, I couldn't live without the huge realism boost of the stunning auto arranger, and having 1-click tracks for a soaring lead etc is also invaluable.


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## Guido Negraszus (Dec 22, 2013)

Yeah, I agree with the auto arranger. I sometimes use the Batman cries multi they provide. It's beautiful. Maybe a future solution (for hopeless cases like myself) is to offer plenty of multis which covers a wide range. That's what ProjectSam does with Symphobia. They have plenty of multis to chose from.


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## Jem7 (Dec 22, 2013)

LASS was my main string library been since I started and most of the time I don't use anything else.


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## Casiquire (Dec 22, 2013)

Guido Negraszus @ Sun 22 Dec said:


> ...plenty of multis which covers a wide range. That's what ProjectSam does with Symphobia. They have plenty of multis to chose from.



Symphobia is meant for people who don't want to bother with orchestration. LASS is meant for people who can't live without it.

Guy, 1:37 for anybody who calls LASS harsh! Thanks for posting the video. I've been comfortable with LASS for a long while but it's always cool to see how other people use it.


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## zvenx (Dec 22, 2013)

it is still a matter of taste....ultimately.. I went to 1:37 and still don't like the sound of it.. however I do agree the color profiles are a huge step forward in that regard.
rsp


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## germancomponist (Dec 22, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Dec 21 said:


> Ok, so here's a 30m walkthrough - or fumble-through - of how I use LASS in my template, and an overview of using the ARC. It's hardly definitive, but it might be useful to some folks, who knows?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFrhtGthJfA



This is a nice one!

And about the "sound" of the library I can only say what I always said abot Lass: I like the sound as is. 

Edit: I want to add something: I am a real guitar player and have 11 guitars and all sound different. I have bought them *because* they sound different. Not to mention the different amps e.t.c. . 

I think it is nearly the same with string libraries. There is no "one for all sound" library on the market! ...


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 22, 2013)

Casiquire @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> Symphobia is meant for people who don't want to bother with orchestration. LASS is meant for people who can't live without it.
> 
> Guy, 1:37 for anybody who calls LASS harsh! Thanks for posting the video. I've been comfortable with LASS for a long while but it's always cool to see how other people use it.



Thanks - I went through a phase of a hybrid of dry and airy which was nice, but in the end just went "sod it" to 100% BatMan. It's relatively muted but it seems to sit nicely in a mix, and super-easy to set up.

Not sure I totally agree with the Symphobia / LASS thing being quiiite that black and white. You do get solo legatos in S2 and S3, while LASS does indeed have some auto arranger multis. I find it all invaluable... Batman Cries is great for an instant hit of over-emoting (I've actually used it more than once for comedic oh-so-sad effect in that regard); Judge Chambers in S1 packs a mighty instant whallop; the auto arranger on LASS LS for real delicate writing etc etc.

And I know what you mean about different sounds of guitars / strings Gunther. Great to have different colours available.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 22, 2013)

Thanks for the walk through, it helped with a few concepts actually. Although I love the sound and playability I haven't been using it as much as I'd like because I've been lazy about getting deep with it. This is giving me courage again!

By the way, I noticed you have Cinestrings there too. Have you found them to be a good compliment to each other? I've bought Cinestrings and am feeling slightly guilty because of already having LASS and not getting the most out of it. But I think Cinestrings does the really expressive vibrato well and is especially good for those loud string parts.


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## Casiquire (Dec 22, 2013)

zvenx @ Sun 22 Dec said:


> it is still a matter of taste....ultimately.. I went to 1:37 and still don't like the sound of it.. however I do agree the color profiles are a huge step forward in that regard.
> rsp



I didn't mean to imply that the sound at that point in the video is the ideal perfect sound for everybody and YOU'RE WRONG IF YOU DISAGREE lol of course personal taste is a huge factor, and I don't think anybody is wrong for their opinion that LASS isn't the sound for them. But it isn't harsh, though. That's really all I meant to say :o)


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## zvenx (Dec 22, 2013)

yes Sir 
rsp


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 23, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Sun Dec 22 said:


> I noticed you have Cinestrings there too. Have you found them to be a good compliment to each other? I've bought Cinestrings and am feeling slightly guilty because of already having LASS and not getting the most out of it. But I think Cinestrings does the really expressive vibrato well and is especially good for those loud string parts.



Well... my thoughts on Cinestrings aren't really worth having yet! I know what's ahead of me - a long and boring session which will end up producing a long and boring support ticket. And that's not really a criticism, just an honest admission of where I am with a 1.0. I got a lot of dropoffs and strange behaviours with it, figured "you know what, I don't NEED this library at the moment so I'll put it on the shelf for now". And if you're thinking "well if you didn't NEED the library, why the heckfire did you buy it?", it's a fair question.

So here's the long explanation as to why I bought it. First, I like the company, always had great dealings with them, support is terrific and I feel they listen to me (not always the case with other devs). Second, I love their Cine sound to date and their usability, Third I figured from the walkthroughs it would give me a different tone that might be useful and Fourth - it sounded like they fixed their legato. I've beeen critical of ambient legato for years and had pretty much given up buying any new legato products from ambient libraries (though the past few months have seen some geniune improvements in this area). CineStrings was clearly a lot dryer though than CB or CW and that really suited me. Throw in a great opening offer and I'd pressed BUY before I knew it.

But did I really NEED it? No. LASS has me covered for all the main stuff, Sable I like for a smalller more intimate sound. I have similar issues with Berlin, though clearly that is a far bigger product than either LASS or CS in terms of what it gives you but honestly, with strings right now I'm not sure I really do need it either. Each library bought represents not only an investment financially, but investment in time and resources learning to use it and getting into your template in a good shape. I feel a bit burnt out now, without the time to really go through what I have, I'm thinking I'll leave Berlin for now. Find myself hoping they do a Berlin Strings Lite in the fullness of time actually, 16 bit and only the main mic, which was my route in to LASS.

So back to the question... what do I think? I just don't know yet. Ask me again in a couple of months


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 23, 2013)

A quick PS to the above post - I saw reference on another thread to the HQ mode under the hood of Cinestrings and thought "Hmm, should try that..." I loaded up the default violins octaves multi, set vibrato to CC1 and played and duly got lots of dropouts. Switching on HQ mode and purging made them all vanish. Every last one. On this quick bash through, anyway.

Can it be as simple as if CS has defaulted to "HQ on" the library would have had a much warmer reception?!

Cos apart from that it does sound great, will be nice colour alternative to LASS for me. Plays really nicely, I like the tone too - totally Hollywood! 

Anyway, I still need to properly spend time with it, and back to the regularly scheduled LASS programming.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 23, 2013)

Same reasons I bought it. So I understand. Never knew about the HQ thing.

Back to LASS, I get mostly confused about what "Sets" actually are. The 8 A-H sets across the top seem to have the first 4 ensembles and then all 4 previous ones on E. I don't understand this.

And am I correct that ports A-D are just instruments 1-16 (A), 17-32 (B), 33-48 (C) and 49-64 (D)? Is this the way it's set up because there are 16 midi channels per port and therefor LASS needs to use these 4 ports to get 64 midi channels total?

I have no idea how sets relate to ports/midi channels if at all though.


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 23, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> And am I correct that ports A-D are just instruments 1-16 (A), 17-32 (B), 33-48 (C) and 49-64 (D)? Is this the way it's set up because there are 16 midi channels per port and therefor LASS needs to use these 4 ports to get 64 midi channels total?



Exactly right.



Echoes in the Attic @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> I get mostly confused about what "Sets" actually are. The 8 A-H sets across the top seem to have the first 4 ensembles and then all 4 previous ones on E. I don't understand this.



I'm confused too - I don't think I've ever met sets A-H! Just describe exactly where you see this?


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 23, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> I'm confused too - I don't think I've ever met sets A-H! Just describe exactly where you see this?



They are the letters at the top of the ARC just under the really important little triangle. You can click those and they show different things. The ARC starters have for example the first chairs and sections A/B/C in sets A through D individually. Then in set E it has all four sections (1st chair, A,B,C).

The naming of things is the crazy confusing part of LASS.

Sections A,B,C of the instruments
Ports A,B,C,D
Sets A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H

And then keyswitches which of course also use letters starting at C!!!


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 23, 2013)

Huh - never noticed or needed sets! I'll take a look tomorrow...


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## Steelkat (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks for the video Guy! I thoroughly enjoyed watching it. It's always interesting to see how others set up LASS. Love your "soaring lead" patch. (How are you doing that? AA?)


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## Vik (Dec 26, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ 23.12.2013 said:


> Sections A,B,C of the instruments
> Ports A,B,C,D
> Sets A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H



Is the following, from the v1 of the LASS manual (http://audiobro.com/pdf/LASS_User_Guide_V1.pdf), still true? (And - is there a newer manual?)



> VIOLINS 1
> 1 player First Chair
> 4 players ensemble A
> 4 players ensemble B
> ...



It's great if one can choose _freely_ between five unique section for each instrument group (correct?), and that the groups have different sizes, and that one also may use several or all of the groups at the sae time (correct?)... but a little surprising that the Violins 2 are made out of the Violins 1. But maybe it doesn't matter?

These options may be something which makes some people suggest that LASS is a bit complex to use, but I really like this part, since the most difficult part when deciding for a library is that some/many libraries don't give the user choices between large/small/alternate sections.


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## Casiquire (Dec 26, 2013)

Vik @ Thu 26 Dec said:


> It's great if one can choose _freely_ between five unique section for each instrument group (correct?), and that the groups have different sizes, and that one also may use several or all of the groups at the sae time (correct?)... but a little surprising that the Violins 2 are made out of the Violins 1. But maybe it doesn't matter?
> 
> These options may be something which makes some people suggest that LASS is a bit complex to use, but I really like this part, since the most difficult part when deciding for a library is that some/many libraries don't give the user choices between large/small/alternate sections.



That list is up to date. As for whether or not that's the most current manual, I really don't know, I just use the manual in the Kontakt interface. You only really get four unique sections though, not five, since the "Full" section is (I believe) a mixdown of the other three, essentially a lite version of LASS for people with smaller systems. This mixdown is exactly what's provided in LASS Lite.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Dec 26, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Mon Dec 23 said:


> Huh - never noticed or needed sets! I'll take a look tomorrow...



To be more accurate in my response about where these are, they are only in the keyswitch section I think.


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## Dmitry Noskov (Dec 26, 2013)

I think the LASS was some sort of revolutionary library at the moment when they came out.
I'm really sad that Andrew didn't continue to make other sections as he supposed to but anyway thanks for LASS...


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 26, 2013)

Echoes in the Attic @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Mon Dec 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Huh - never noticed or needed sets! I'll take a look tomorrow...
> ...



OH YEAH! THOSE sets. You're right, Echoes, it might have been good not to use the A, B, C mnemonic for everything....

Those are different sets of keyswitches - so you set what midi channel you are on (mine start on Channel 9) and define your keyswitches for that channel. So for me A= ch9 for longs ABC+FC, B = ch10 for shorts ABC +FC, C = ch11 for FC longs and so on.

Steelkat - my equipment is all in bits at the moment as I've had to clear it out due to local flooding (just stopped short of the studio on Xmas eve, but more coming overnight tonight). You'd think I'd remember, but I can't be quite sure how it is set up and my brain's turned to Christmas mush. Probably it was the AA though - ABC for 1V and ABC 2V an octave higher, set to mono poly, don't think it was any more clever than that really.


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## Vik (Dec 26, 2013)

Dmitry Noskov @ 26.12.2013 said:


> I think the LASS was some sort of revolutionary library at the moment when they came out.
> I'm really sad that Andrew didn't continue to make other sections as he supposed to but anyway thanks for LASS...


What kind of sections were they supposed to make? Are you sure they aren't working on it?


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## Guy Rowland (Dec 26, 2013)

Vik @ Thu Dec 26 said:


> Dmitry Noskov @ 26.12.2013 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the LASS was some sort of revolutionary library at the moment when they came out.
> ...



They've said they are working on it (in as many words). Thing for me that sets LASS apart is how unified it is, how all those different sections play so perfectly together, how near-perfect the legato is - that must take unimaginable hours of work for a small company.

I remember when CineBrass and Hollywood Brass came out thinking "oooh, that'll make it tougher for the Audiobro brass". It's so long ago now, the world is ready for a new generation of brass


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## chimuelo (Dec 26, 2013)

I believe I saw Seb and Andrew demoing LASS at NAMM '10 and it looked so easy, that's why I bought it.
And since the NCW version you can load tons of stuff and use their version of InstBnks making it a piece of cake to use live.
Recently bought a great Mid/Side summing DSP device and seperate the patches with mid/side offsets, so when I layer 2 of 3 patches it is really a wide full authentic sound.

I just never have a need for all of the fancy stuff, just the meat & potatoes, and a lean, mean host like Bidule, or Reaper if automations are required.


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## Vik (Dec 26, 2013)

chimuelo @ 26.12.2013 said:


> And since the NCW version you can load tons of stuff and use their version of InstBnks making it a piece of cake to use live.



What's NCW? Not Northern Championship Wrestling, I guess.


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## cynirgy (Dec 28, 2013)

Yes, I find LASS too complex to use, and I tried hard to incorporate ARC in my workflow. I mean, spending a couple months on it. Never quite took hold.

There are nothing but fantastic samples in this library, and you will not find them anywhere else. With some EQ and early reflections in the reverb you will get a great sound that you can add to your mix to provide some fantastic realism.

I use a whole VEPro instance for LASS with all eight Event Input Plug-Ins and I like working that way with it. It uses a lot of resources but the return is worth it. There's probably a more efficient way to do this but that is OK with me.

It would be great to be able to use CC's instead of keyswitches, however.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Jan 17, 2014)

For anyone still a little confused about the keyswitching and arc starter templates in LASS, I just noticed that they put up a couple of really good tutorials on the templates provided with 2.5 and how to modify them. Helps alot!

http://audiobro.com/arc-template-starters-tutorial/


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## Casiquire (Jan 17, 2014)

Vik @ Thu 26 Dec said:


> chimuelo @ 26.12.2013 said:
> 
> 
> > And since the NCW version you can load tons of stuff and use their version of InstBnks making it a piece of cake to use live.
> ...



NCW is Native Instruments' lossless compression which cuts the size of the sample library, meaning it also saves you on RAM and makes things faster.

And my offer still stands...and Audiobro's forum is really helpful and quick to respond.


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## BuzzySmith (Jan 26, 2014)

OK, as a newbie, I'll finally jump in!

I don't do anything cinematic (not really by choice!), but I do a lot of string orchestra arrangements and enhancements to Broadway, pop, some country and (for lack of a better term) new-age/light classical. I am versed in traditional 4 part string writing.

When I started researching which library to add, multiple trusted associates highly recommended LASS. Of course, the samples on the Audiobro website sounded amazing, even though that was not the particular direction that I knew that I would be going. But still...

Finally bit the bullet and ordered and downloaded LASS 2.5 in late August of 2013.

My first impressions were..*."What!?? This is way too harsh and unpleasant sounding. What am I doing wrong?!! Did I just blow $1000.00?!!"*

Then I started watching the LASS videos both on the Audiobro site and various YouTube videos from other users...some independents and some from Audiobro.

What really hung me up at first was the apparent "need" to use the A.R.C. which was entirely out of my normal way of thinking and using Kontakt. But I tried and tried.

Then from some other users (MotuNation for one) and Googling I started finding hints about CC#111, CC#1 (bowing pressure-mod wheel-generally don't go much beyond 64) and the sustain pedal, etc. 

And to, at least for now, abandon A.R.C. and just load the required patches directly into Kontakt as I was used to. As a "For Instance", I might start with just Legato Sustains>Vlns Full Leg Sus NV-Vib for Violins 1, the same for Violins 2, Violas and Celli with their respective Full Leg Sus NV-Vib patches and assign to MIDI channels 1-2-3-4.

Then pop in the various controllers on each track (111, 7, 11 and 1) to nominal and preferred staring place settings.

I might add an FC patch, too, and sometimes an A or B section, but this is how I begin.

Now I was kinda back in my realm of _familiarity and understanding_.

And, the use of EQ to pull down some of the harshness even at moderate bowing.

So, yes...steep learning curve for me as the interface was so foreign, but I know as I become even more familiar with the library that I shall branch out and explore Stage and Color, etc.

Bottom line...I'm glad I'm in. Still having some difficulties with rebowing and some notes seeming to have a different attack or sound than the exact same note 2 beats earlier, but now I feel that I have at least a handle on this beast and with some more experimentation and use I think things will improve greatly over time.

I do have 4-5 other libraries, and I think that it's now safe to say that LASS is the best and most realistic.

My 2¢ for a Sunday afternoon (3 hours of it spent with LASS as a matter of fact).

I'm sure that I will be posting more as days go by...hopefully with some helpful hints but more likely I'll be asking questions! (After a good search before posting, of course!)

Thanks!

Buzzy

(I'm sure some of the other board members with a lot more experience might question some of these practices, so feel free to jump in and offer comments. As I prefaced this with...I am a relative newbie!)


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## Casiquire (Jan 26, 2014)

When it comes to rebowing, I always suggest that if you're using more than one section on the same notes, make one section actually rebow but have the other section just hold their note. Maybe add a bit of a "pulse" with the modwheel. It adds just the right amount of attack to the new note while keeping a connected sound and you wind up with a completely realistic rebow.

Of course if you aren't layering there are still tricks you can use, like doing the same thing with a First Chair patch, but it's much easier when you're layering sections.


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## Steelkat (Jan 27, 2014)

Casiquire @ Mon Jan 27 said:


> When it comes to rebowing, I always suggest that if you're using more than one section on the same notes, make one section actually rebow but have the other section just hold their note. Maybe add a bit of a "pulse" with the modwheel. It adds just the right amount of attack to the new note while keeping a connected sound and you wind up with a completely realistic rebow.
> 
> Of course if you aren't layering there are still tricks you can use, like doing the same thing with a First Chair patch, but it's much easier when you're layering sections.



Casiquire knows his stuff :wink: .This is a great tip that works wonders, and also can be helpful in reducing the "pumping" effect that you get sometimes when you have multiple sections playing successive notes (e.g., four consecutive quarter notes at 80 bpm). 

Hang in there with LASS. It takes some massaging but man is it worth it in the end. Not to knock any other library, but to me the layering of the divisi, the auto-arranger, and the first and second chairs set it apart. And ARC and Stage and Color is icing on the cake; there if you want it, but are not required if you don't.

On the subject of EQ, yes a lot of times you will want to darken the tone, but there are other ways to do that, both alone and in combination with eq (IR's, VSS, Stage and Color, etc.). What I have personally found that works better than straight eq is a dynamic eq such as HOFA IQ or Melda's Dynamic EQ. If you set it right it only kicks in when stridency becomes overbearing, while leaving softer passages (that might benefit from more detail in the sound) untouched. 

Plus the LASS devs are the best in the biz, and the Audiobro forum is full of helpful and supportive folks. All in all LASS is a very flexible library that can cover a lot of ground. And I much like the fact that it was recorded relatively dry, so if you want that "in the same room" smallish studio sound that your hear sometimes on country and pop you can get it.


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## BuzzySmith (Jan 28, 2014)

Thanks, guys!

I appreciate the responses and realized after I did a Google search a few days ago that this page 4 was indeed just that...page 4!

I went back to the beginning of the thread and have learned a lot more. :D 

Anyway, while it's on my mind...

My work method right now (per LASS track) is to set:

• CC# 111 at 0 to initiate legato
• CC# 7 at 115 or higher as I prefer to do my level editing after the MIDI tracks are rendered to audio.
• CC# 11 to about the same for the same reason as above
• CC# 1 to around 50-ish (or less) and I do draw in some lines here.
• Automation is ON.

• Kontakt 5 instance set at 0.00 dB (No reverb or EQ on Kontakt prior to the freeze.)

After rendering, I'm finding that I have to kick up the resulting audio by about 10-15 dB to even see it on my screen...normal?...just checking.

Thanks!

Buzzy

_Late 2009 2.66 Quad Core Intel Xeon
8 gigs RAM
OSX 10.6.8
Digital Performer 8.0.1_


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## Casiquire (Jan 29, 2014)

Steelkat @ Mon 27 Jan said:


> Casiquire knows his stuff :wink: .



Careful there, someone might make the mistake of believing you! :oP

BuzzySmith, I don't think you necessarily need each of those steps you listed. For example LASS opens with legato already initiated, so you could save yourself that step of setting cc111 unless you'll be switching legato on and off within the same line. Same goes for cc7--if you won't be using that slider at all, no need to set it, and you'd save yourself a couple seconds per track. As for cc1 you do get a lot out of the library when you use it to its full advantage and keep it in motion. Use your ears instead of your eyes is what I'm trying to say--it's an increasingly widely-known fact that LASS reaches forte where most libraries reach mezzo-forte or less, and LASS is warmer the lower cc1 goes (thus requiring less eq to tame the sound.)


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## Kejero (Jan 29, 2014)

I too rarely change CC7 much (usually set at 100), but CC1 and CC11 frequently go all over the place. That's how you get the expression out of these virtual instruments. Seems odd to do this on the audio tracks?



> After rendering, I'm finding that I have to kick up the resulting audio by about 10-15 dB to even see it on my screen...normal?...just checking.


Seems normal to me


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## williemyers (Feb 7, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Dec 08 said:


> It is a simple equation, whether LASS, HS or any other: you do not get both a great range of capability/flexibility AND ""intuitively playable," easy to get good performances out of, behaves exactly as I expect it to with little to no further tweaking."
> 
> It is like saying, "I want to be a great player but I do not want to spend a lot of hours in the practice room."
> 
> It doesn't work that way.


uh...no, Jay....it's actually not at all like "I want to be a great player but I do not want to spend a lot of hours in the practice room." 

And as for, "great range of capability/flexibility AND ""intuitively playable," easy to get good performances out of, behaves exactly as I expect it to with little to no further tweaking."...that's *exactly* what I get - - every time I sit at a Steinway....

Point is that *no*one in any of the posts above have indicated that they weren't willing to "spend a lot of hours in the practice room"...clearly just an assumption on your part.

And when you "assume"?....


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## Casiquire (Feb 7, 2014)

williemyers @ Fri 07 Feb said:


> ...that's *exactly* what I get - - every time I sit at a Steinway....



Acoustic pianos and sample libraries are far from directly comparable, though. In the world of sample libraries, you don't get all of that from any single library. You could just as easily say that "great range of capability", "behaves exactly as I expect" etc applies to a set of paintbrushes too, but if you were to try to make VIRTUAL chopsticks suddenly you'd hit the same wall of flexibility vs. out-of-the-box usability vs. amount of time required to get good results, etc. 

Considering the title of the post is "Do you find LASS a bit too complex to use?" I think that contrary to being an assumption, the amount of hours it takes to become familiar with LASS is actually the entire point of this thread.


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## LHall (Feb 10, 2014)

LASS is too complex - and it sounds harsh - you should all stop using it! 

Same goes for all Sample Modeling instruments!! Delete them now!!!!

Then I will be the only one with these fantastic sounds. Bwahahahaha!!!!! (evil laugh)

Seriously though - these are absolutely amazing instruments and worth every second of learning and practice to use them. Compared to becoming a master of the violin, LASS is pretty dang easy to use. Anything great is sure worth the journey to get there. 

Having done quite a few string sessions in the studio, I came into LASS aware that 4 violins dry in the room don't always sound full and lush in the control room. So the sound never bothered me. I knew that structure of the library was going to give me tremendous flexibility that I didn't have with other "better sounding" libraries. 

I'm a fan no doubt.


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