# Spitfire BBC Symphony Orchestra - FIRST LOOK (In depth)



## Daniel James

Hey all,

I recently finished going over everything in the BBCSO by Spitfire on a live stream in front of a live audience. The whole stream took about 7 hours so for your sanity I actually broke up the videos into the sections of the orchestra I want to cover. 

Hope you guys find it useful!









-DJ


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## Bluemount Score

Thanks for your effort @Daniel James
As I got very little time right now but still care about your opinion, would you mind giving a very brief summary of pros and cons about this library as a written statement?


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## mcalis

Saw the livestream yesterday. While I'm disappointed there was no mention of Jack Sparrow's nether regions anywhere, I do appreciate the content and your honesty.

Have to agree that it's rather unclear who this library is really for, because the pricetag is not beginner friendly and for most pros this might only fill one or two gaps, which is hard to justify given the large size.

Another interesting point you made @Daniel James is that you said (paraphrasing) you can sort of hear the automation used in cutting up the samples (I believe you said this of the solo horn). That's the feeling I ended up taking away from the stream, that it's in a way a fairly run-of-the-mill product. Yes they have the BBC Orchestra, but it's all the same articulations, all the usual corners being cut, and the same inconsistent QC.


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## I like music

Just as a point of comparison, here's one of my favourite 'sample modeling' examples (the Lennartz example you showed in your 2nd video):



Those crossfades in the BBCSO horns though ... yikes. And that top layer...


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## Daniel James

I like music said:


> Just as a point of comparison, here's one of my favourite 'sample modeling' examples (the Lennartz example you showed in your 2nd video):
> 
> 
> 
> Those crossfades in the BBCSO horns though ... yikes. And that top layer...




One of my favourite brass lines of all time. Nice work with the sample modelling, runs that sound really well!

-DJ


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## Daniel James

Bluemount Score said:


> Thanks for your effort @Daniel James
> As I got very little time right now but still care about your opinion, would you mind giving a very brief summary of pros and cons about this library as a written statement?



haha NoamL actually summarised it pretty well in his post on the other thread, I quote:

Bottom line: "It sounds good for what it is, but it doesn't do anything better than what I already have." His view is it's better to buy a cheap all-in-1 library and then augment it with flagship orchestral sections where you feel the all-in-1 has gaps and doesn't achieve what you want. He doesn't like the $1k price and thought BBCSO should be priced more like an Albion (I completely disagree with his view on that! But I'm just passing on his opinion).
He likes many of the sounds, especially the string longs and the percussion. Felt some of the woodwinds were good and others only okay. Didn't like much of the brass at all. Some of the string shorts seemed to have timing problems.
Doesn't like that the Spitfire Player currently has missing features compared to Kontakt like background loading, onboard effects, etc. Several times he compared the SF Player to early versions of EW PLAY. Also repeated his criticism of Spitfire Player UI - unintuitive, lots of empty space, paginated mics, etc.
Likes the JJ Mix sound but would preferred more RR & more layers rather than 20 mics.
Basically it feels like they made a $300 starter library and are trying to make it look like its worth $1000. Lots of sloppiness everywhere, feels like lots of cut corners (something you forgive in cheaper libraries), Also its another Spitfire library that in general feels like it tops out around mf in some instruments (looking at you brass)

Its not an inherently bad library, the sounds are not too bad. Its just way too expensive for what it is and its hard to pinpoint who this is actually for. It out prices beginners, Its too sloppy for pros, many people in between have libraries that can do anything BBCSO can only better, with faster load times, multis, in tune, in time, with a UI that is designed with function in mind.

If this ever drops near $300 I would recommend. At $1000 I wouldn't. I am not saying you are wrong if you do decide to get it and enjoy it, everyone is different. But for me this library just doesn't come ANYWHERE near the hype they generated for it, and not for the first time.

-DJ


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## Consona

Daniel James said:


> haha NoamL actually summarised it pretty well in his post on the other thread, I quote:
> 
> Bottom line: "It sounds good for what it is, but it doesn't do anything better than what I already have." His view is it's better to buy a cheap all-in-1 library and then augment it with flagship orchestral sections where you feel the all-in-1 has gaps and doesn't achieve what you want. He doesn't like the $1k price and thought BBCSO should be priced more like an Albion (I completely disagree with his view on that! But I'm just passing on his opinion).
> He likes many of the sounds, especially the string longs and the percussion. Felt some of the woodwinds were good and others only okay. Didn't like much of the brass at all. Some of the string shorts seemed to have timing problems.
> Doesn't like that the Spitfire Player currently has missing features compared to Kontakt like background loading, onboard effects, etc. Several times he compared the SF Player to early versions of EW PLAY. Also repeated his criticism of Spitfire Player UI - unintuitive, lots of empty space, paginated mics, etc.
> Likes the JJ Mix sound but would preferred more RR & more layers rather than 20 mics.
> Basically it feels like they made a $300 starter library and are trying to make it look like its worth $1000. Lots of sloppiness everywhere, feels like lots of cut corners (something you forgive in cheaper libraries), Also its another Spitfire library that in general feels like it tops out around mf in some instruments (looking at you brass)
> 
> Its not an inherently bad library, the sounds are not too bad. Its just way too expensive for what it is and its hard to pinpoint who this is actually for. It out prices beginners, Its too sloppy for pros, many people in between have libraries that can do anything BBCSO can only better, with faster load times, multis, in tune, in time, with a UI that is designed with function in mind.
> 
> If this ever drops near $300 I would recommend. At $1000 I wouldn't. I am not saying you are wrong if you do decide to get it and enjoy it, everyone is different. But for me this library just doesn't come ANYWHERE near the hype they generated for it, and not for the first time.
> 
> -DJ


Basically exactly what I was expecting based on the demos and the Spitfire info page. I'll maybe check those 7 hours out nonetheless since you're fun to watch, but this all has just proved my confusion of not understanding what this whole hype is about was justified.


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## JazzDude

there are severe ISSUES with RAM usage and loading (even SSD):


And SFA knows abt it.
Exactly like HZ Strings, its a HYPED average "Beta Status" Library, and the Fanboys pay the further development. LOL.


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## Oliver

thats terrible. which proves my points not to buy (and i have many SF libraries)


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## JazzDude

yes, read the comments below the Video, where others confirm their "conversation" with SFA


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## dersickboy

So what would you recommend as a allround/all-in-one library with focus on high quality /realistic orchestral sound and also usability? 
I search for one good quality library suitable for most purposes, that contains all basics that you need (advanced level...no pro). I find EW composer cloud not very intuitive/usable. And I don't want to puzzle together different libs. thankU


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## BassClef

dersickboy said:


> So what would you recommend as a allround/all-in-one library with focus on high quality /realistic orchestral sound and also usability?
> I search for one good quality library suitable for most purposes, that contains all basics that you need (advanced level...no pro). I find EW composer cloud not very intuitive/usable. And I don't want to puzzle together different libs. thankU



Good question... I'm holding off on BBCSO for now... hoping for an announcement soon on Cinematic Studio woodwinds and percussion... if coming soon, I'd be very interested in their orchestra.


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## JazzDude

for low budget and BEGINNERS : the complete Orchestra by SonusScore /Bestservice
You cant get faster a good result.



start watching this and later all their Videos



and this one


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## dcoscina

Daniel James said:


> haha NoamL actually summarised it pretty well in his post on the other thread, I quote:
> 
> Bottom line: "It sounds good for what it is, but it doesn't do anything better than what I already have." His view is it's better to buy a cheap all-in-1 library and then augment it with flagship orchestral sections where you feel the all-in-1 has gaps and doesn't achieve what you want. He doesn't like the $1k price and thought BBCSO should be priced more like an Albion (I completely disagree with his view on that! But I'm just passing on his opinion).
> He likes many of the sounds, especially the string longs and the percussion. Felt some of the woodwinds were good and others only okay. Didn't like much of the brass at all. Some of the string shorts seemed to have timing problems.
> Doesn't like that the Spitfire Player currently has missing features compared to Kontakt like background loading, onboard effects, etc. Several times he compared the SF Player to early versions of EW PLAY. Also repeated his criticism of Spitfire Player UI - unintuitive, lots of empty space, paginated mics, etc.
> Likes the JJ Mix sound but would preferred more RR & more layers rather than 20 mics.
> Basically it feels like they made a $300 starter library and are trying to make it look like its worth $1000. Lots of sloppiness everywhere, feels like lots of cut corners (something you forgive in cheaper libraries), Also its another Spitfire library that in general feels like it tops out around mf in some instruments (looking at you brass)
> 
> Its not an inherently bad library, the sounds are not too bad. Its just way too expensive for what it is and its hard to pinpoint who this is actually for. It out prices beginners, Its too sloppy for pros, many people in between have libraries that can do anything BBCSO can only better, with faster load times, multis, in tune, in time, with a UI that is designed with function in mind.
> 
> If this ever drops near $300 I would recommend. At $1000 I wouldn't. I am not saying you are wrong if you do decide to get it and enjoy it, everyone is different. But for me this library just doesn't come ANYWHERE near the hype they generated for it, and not for the first time.
> 
> -DJ


Good summary. And I think your walk thru is very good at giving those of us who haven’t bought it a good idea of what it sounds like. I think Spitfire should have done a tiered release like EW Hollywood series. If they’d done a single mic version of BBC for like $499 I think even more people would have become early adopters. Additionally it would help load times and memory footprint. 

If I had the money would I have bought this? Hmm. For $999 no. Straight out. For $799, still no. That’s no a slight on their pricing however but more my own personal perspective based on all the libraries I already own which are quite a lot.


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## jbuhler

JazzDude said:


> for low budget and BEGINNERS : the complete Orchestra by SonusScore /Bestservice
> You cant get faster a good result.
> 
> 
> 
> start watching this and later all their Videos
> 
> 
> 
> and this one



I like this library for playing around with—the engine is good for mocking up ideas quickly, especially chug-a-chug string stuff—and it's great for taking on the go. It also sounds much better than it has any right to, given the small size of the library.


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## jbuhler

dcoscina said:


> That’s no a slight on their pricing however but more my own personal perspective based on all the libraries I already own which are quite a lot.


Maybe they will come out with a one mic version eventually. It would be nice if they made a variant for existing users that had only one mic so it could be loaded easier on lower spec laptops. 

I also have lots of libraries that cover the same ground and have held off getting it for that reason. But one thing that has caught my attention in the large number of user demos that have been released (vastly more than for your typical library) is how quickly you can get to a credible cohesive version, even if you have to polish it with additional libraries. For me, there would be a lot of value in that, even given all the other libraries I have.


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## 5Lives

Your walkthroughs are very helpful DJ! It has a lovely sound, but many other libraries do as well. I appreciate with Spitfire is doing in conjunction in terms of providing pre-made templates, orchestration tutorials, etc. - though I think you can make your own template without much effort and still learn from their orchestration videos and apply it to your own setup. That's what I plan on doing for now.


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## JazzDude

i bet a lot of real NEWBIES were hooked by the BBC SO HYPE marketing. Thats why I suggest NOT to buy it. Its way too expensive and still lacks important things. 
Wait 6 months and see, there will be a huge price drop. SFA finds a "tricky" way (less mics or and articulations) to grab also the Newbies money, too. 

A Beginner will not invest more than like 300 €/$ for a whole Orchestra Library and he will not have a clue abt all the complex articulation + expression maps and legato transition stuff, you know what i mean. 
If someone starts from scratch he wants a fast good sounding result. 
The Orchestra Lib delivers exactly that. Thats why i suggested it to "dersickboy".

I bet DJ could make an impressive composition with it, showing its not worse than BBC SO.
It has very basic choir also. The arpeggiator drag and drop as midifile speeds up alot for any "EPIC" soundtrack.


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## dcoscina

jbuhler said:


> Maybe they will come out with a one mic version eventually. It would be nice if they made a variant for existing users that had only one mic so it could be loaded easier on lower spec laptops.
> 
> I also have lots of libraries that cover the same ground and have held off getting it for that reason. But one thing that has caught my attention in the large number of user demos that have been released (vastly more than for your typical library) is how quickly you can get to a credible cohesive version, even if you have to polish it with additional libraries. For me, there would be a lot of value in that, even given all the other libraries I have.


Yes I agree. I like the sound of the strings in particular. I’m not as upset about the brass loudness since I’m a brass player and some of these libraries have overhyped brass that wouldn’t be realistic to write in a sustained manner at those dynamic levels.


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## robgb

dersickboy said:


> So what would you recommend as a allround/all-in-one library with focus on high quality /realistic orchestral sound and also usability?


Frankly, I think this library is pretty damn good and shouldn't be dismissed because it's only $150:


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## Cat

No, 11.8 GB is NOT the total Ram used by all the plugins, but it is just the one you are shown. Unless I missed what you meant.




JazzDude said:


> there are severe ISSUES with RAM usage and loading (even SSD):
> 
> 
> And SFA knows abt it.
> Exactly like HZ Strings, its a HYPED average "Beta Status" Library, and the Fanboys pay the further development. LOL.


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## Olfirf

Yes, there are other contenders for a all in one orchestra, although I would not recommend Soniscore or Amadeus as serious alternatives to BBCSO unless on a real tight budget.









Iconica: VST Orchester Library


Iconica bietet dir eine exzellente Auswahl an modernen und ausdrucksstarken Orchesterinstrumenten, die wir im legendären Funkhaus Berlin aufgenommen haben.




www.steinberg.net





Steinberg Iconicas MSRP is slightly lower than BBCSO, it has fewer mic positions and therefore is not just as big as BBC, although it has a comparable content and IMO a similar but better selection of articulation (more useful).
It has already been on sale and costs less than BBCSO. It would be my choice going for a all in one product, as Halion may not have the full feature set of Kontakt, but at least it is a well tested software that is around for a while! The Spitfire Audio Player should have been tested longer effort releasing such a huge library with it. Remember Play! This BBC product might be useful in a few years when users will have pushed the company to make it better and include all the usability features of Kontakt.
Even soundwise, Iconica seems like a good alternative to me. Berlin Funkhaus also is a recording stage and probably has a similar hall reflection.


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## JazzDude

@Daniel James, any chance for a second look on BBC SO from SSD today?
I hope u get online today in 2 hrs.


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## Zedcars

Iswhatitis said:


> Hopefully they come add with a BBCSO Pro expansion pack which adds Flute 2, Oboe 2, Clarinet 2, Bassoon 2, Horn 2, Trumpet 2, Trombone 2, Flugelhorn, Cornet, Cimbasso, Cimbassi, and ensemble patches for each section. Let’s all hope they fix Horn by adding another dynamic layer or smoothing the cross fader somehow but overall BBCSO is very good. I don’t feel it replaces SStO at all since the Studio Orchestra is much more intimate sounding for a completely different tone and texture.


+1

Also, I desperately need a vibrato layer for the solo and a3 trumpets.


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## Nemoy

Iswhatitis said:


> Hopefully they come add with a BBCSO Pro expansion pack which adds Flute 2, Oboe 2, Clarinet 2, Bassoon 2, Horn 2, Trumpet 2, Trombone 2, Flugelhorn, Cornet, Cimbasso, Cimbassi, and ensemble patches for each section. Let’s all hope they fix Horn by adding another dynamic layer or smoothing the cross fader somehow but overall BBCSO is very good. I don’t feel it replaces SStO at all since the Studio Orchestra is much more intimate sounding for a completely different tone and texture.





Zedcars said:


> +1
> 
> Also, I desperately need a vibrato layer for the solo and a3 trumpets.



And I am in serious need of the 'muted brass' for BBCSO. Thanks for all of these great suggestions. I will go ahead and submit these requests to Spitfire and I encourage many of you to do the same. We have made our voices heard through the form of purchases and money, especially for this library which has some of the most comments and longest threads in this forum's history and has been successful. The more requests made for additions to this library, the more they should take note. Thanks.


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