# IZotope Music Production. Is this the real deal for mixing and mastering?



## Mundano (Mar 2, 2018)

Hello folks, i am looking for advice on this one, $499 is this a good deal? somebody working with it? pros / contras ? references? thx a lot:

https://www.timespace.com/collectio...-music-production-suite?variant=1023681200138

https://www.izotope.com/en/products/mix/music-production-suite.html


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## Mundano (Mar 2, 2018)




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## desert (Mar 5, 2018)

This is the real deal!!!!!! Will automatically mix your mixes at the press of a button!! 

Nah jokes, it’s all in the orchestration, this won’t help much


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## Arbee (Mar 5, 2018)

Ozone is excellent as long as you know what it all does, and when _not_ to use things.....


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## Mundano (Mar 5, 2018)

desert said:


> This is the real deal!!!!!! Will automatically mix your mixes at the press of a button!!
> 
> Nah jokes, it’s all in the orchestration, this won’t help much



i mean, for the offer $499, can you say is a good buy? I am not talking about V.I.s but about the mixing-mastering process. What are you using? Waves? iZotope? other plugins?
Thx a lot


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## John Busby (Mar 5, 2018)

Ozone and Neutron are my go to's for mixing and mastering
i also use Steven Slate's stuff and both have their place.
i will say that no matter how great these plug-ins are, they won't make you a better composer.
that said, out of the bundle (which i also have) i've rarely ever used Nectar, Trash, and vocal synth.
The RX6 tho is golden and the Ozone 8 and Neutron 2 are worth the price alone imo


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## Mundano (Mar 5, 2018)

johnbusbymusic said:


> Ozone and Neutron are my go to's for mixing and mastering
> i also use Steven Slate's stuff and both have their place.
> i will say that no matter how great these plug-ins are, they won't make you a better composer.
> that said, out of the bundle (which i also have) i've rarely ever used Nectar, Trash, and vocal synth.
> The RX6 tho is golden and the Ozone 8 and Neutron 2 are worth the price alone imo


thx for your reply. i was needing such a feedback. also, the programs are worth the money.. thx again


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## patrick76 (Mar 5, 2018)

I have it and use it sometimes. I know that Mark Petrie uses/has used it http://www.markpetrie.com/interview-with-output/ I also know Andrew Scheps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Scheps has used Trash and RX.


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## gsilbers (Mar 5, 2018)

they are good tools. but not better or worse than other ones. i like trash2 and soemtimes use ozone.
the restortion suite is nice.
waves, slate, uad, etc will get you there as well.

and btw- izotpe is following waves patch of price dumping. so they will start getting better and better deals. so no matter what plygin company you are looking for and they have a "Deal" i would recommend not taking it and wait for their next deal that will happen later maybe in another form but they will happen. 
the only exception would be soundtoys. took me like 5 years to get their deal.


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## Mundano (Mar 5, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> i would recommend not taking it and wait for their next deal that will happen later maybe in another form but they will happen.



is this really a good path to follow? did you have success with this strategy? thx


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## gsilbers (Mar 5, 2018)

Mundano said:


> is this really a good path to follow? did you have success with this strategy? thx








it keeps happening with waves. and ive seen many from izotope. so it depends if you need it or think its a good price overall. they change the options, sometimes bundles, sometimes individual etc. 

i subscribe to plugindiscounts and audiodeluxe and keep seeing deals.

also, for me ozone is good enough for mixing as well so neutron for me is a little redundant.

in other words, try the demos out and see if you need all the pluings. many times ove bought bundle deals to later relize i only really liked one plugin.


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## leon chevalier (Mar 5, 2018)

I'm totally in love with neutron 2. Everything is parallel, everything is multiband. I will not need anything more for mixing in my life... 
...until neutron 3 

(And I don't use the auto settings things)


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## Mundano (Mar 5, 2018)

*thx for the infos!* so far so good with *iZotope*... anybody using "*Waves*" for Mastering or any other plugin-bundle e.g. *Brainworx*?


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## MPortmann (Mar 5, 2018)

Mundano said:


> *thx for the infos!* so far so good with *iZotope*... anybody using "*Waves*" for Mastering or any other plugin-bundle e.g. *Brainworx*?



The above are all good tools. Waves L2 is golden for me as well as handful of UAD and Sonnox plugins for mastering.


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## Mundano (Mar 5, 2018)

MPortmann said:


> Sonnox



ouch! they seem too good... but, 

*Mastering Native*

£653.25 GBP
$935.86 USD
€758,17 EUR
did you see them once in an offer/deal/discount?


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## gsilbers (Mar 5, 2018)

Mundano said:


> ouch! they seem too good... but,
> 
> *Mastering Native*
> 
> ...



sadly nope. sonnox doesnt do that many sales. 
i wish they did. i liked a lot the inflator when i demo it.


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## jamwerks (Mar 5, 2018)

leon chevalier said:


> I'm totally in love with neutron 2. Everything is parallel, everything is multiband. I will not need anything more for mixing in my life...
> ...until neutron 3
> 
> (And I don't use the auto settings things)


Do you find Neutron helpful on orchestral/cinematic mixes?


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## gsilbers (Mar 5, 2018)

Mundano said:


> *thx for the infos!* so far so good with *iZotope*... anybody using "*Waves*" for Mastering or any other plugin-bundle e.g. *Brainworx*?



ive slowly have bought all of waves with their 29.99 sales. they are also good. i think it also has demos. 


i liked some of the brainworx. plugin alliance has deals sometimes and they sell some very good pluings from elysia and others.


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## Mundano (Mar 5, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> brainworx. plugin alliance



i lost the December deals, they were offered inclusive in January... :( so like $9 each... i came late!...


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## jtnyc (Mar 5, 2018)

I demoed Neutron out of curiosity and while it seemed ok, to me, it didn't really compete soundwise with my Fab Filter plugins. Also, I find Izotopes UI's to be finicky and crowded, so I didn't enjoy working with it. I own Trash and it's a pretty cool plugin and I use it sometimes, but again, not a fan of interacting with it.

Of coarse sound is most important and there are many choices out there. You might want to demo a few different brands and see what you click with. I'd checkout Fab Filter Pro Q2, Pro C2, and Pro L for sure.


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## Mundano (Mar 5, 2018)

sorry guys, i have to ask you, because i am about to buy tools for mastering/mixing, but focused on giving the product this final touch, and i thank you your kind advice on the matter. i hope i'm not bothering you right now...

*does this =>*
https://www.audiodeluxe.com/products/sonnox-enhance-bundle-native



*Sonnox Enhance Bundle Native*

$431.00

*compares to this ? =>*
https://www.timespace.com/collectio...-music-production-suite?variant=1023681200138

*iZotope Music Production Suite*
*Combine 6 mixing, mastering, and vocal production software tools*








WAS: €999.00 _Inc. VAT_
OUR PRICE: €503.20 _inc. VAT_
€419.33 _exc. VAT_
49.63% OFF - SAVE A TOTAL OF €495.80
DEAL ENDS IN 27D:14H:19M:50S
Taxes (VAT) will be calculated based on delivery address at checkout.


*note: i know the compared tools are quite different, but in a general perspective could they be compared and valued? thx*


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## Mundano (Mar 5, 2018)

jtnyc said:


> I demoed Neutron out of curiosity and while it seemed ok, to me, it didn't really compete soundwise with my Fab Filter plugins. Also, I find Izotopes UI's to be finicky and crowded, so I didn't enjoy working with it. I own Trash and it's a pretty cool plugin and I use it sometimes, but again, not a fan of interacting with it.
> 
> Of coarse sound is most important and there are many choices out there. You might want to demo a few different brands and see what you click with. I'd checkout Fab Filter Pro Q2, Pro C2, and Pro L for sure.



after your recommendation here the bundle offer:




*FabFilter Mastering Bundle*

$499.00

*as to compare with the later ones?*


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## Mundano (Mar 5, 2018)

*Waves Gold Bundle*
On Sale Now

$799.00|$199.00

*?? what about this in comparison ?...*


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## Henu (Mar 5, 2018)

Izotope Ozone for general post- production, FF for more "strict" music mastering and Gold for mixing.


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## Mundano (Mar 5, 2018)

Henu said:


> Izotope Ozone for general post- production, FF for more "strict" music mastering and Gold for mixing.


what do you think about the Sonnox bundle? where would you categorize it?


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## leon chevalier (Mar 5, 2018)

jamwerks said:


> Do you find Neutron helpful on orchestral/cinematic mixes?


No, I should have said that I'm using it for pop/rock/edm music.

For orchestral music I just use an eq when it's needed. (I'm talking about each track, not the master bus) Neutro is perfectly fine for just eq but it's like having a Swiss army nife and to use only the can opener...

... But wait, it's what we all do !


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## storyteller (Mar 5, 2018)

My setup is mostly Waves with a few of the other usual suspects. Just for fun, when Neutron 1 first came out, I attempted to mix a pop track using only Neutron on a mix. I'd say it got me 80%-90% there. Then again, I wasn't fully familiar with all of the ways to get the most out of it. But that last 10-20% is what makes something special (saturations, emulation harmonics, etc). I will say though that I just upgraded to Neutron 2 ADV during this sale and have found tonal balance to be invaluable. So, it will be a mainstay in my setup for sure. I 100% _do not_ like Neutron limiters. They're squashy to me even at 1 or 2 db. So I always bypass those. There are some great features in there. I also really like the transient shaper.

Truthfully, I actually thought tonal balance was going to be a gimmick. Color me wildly surprised and wrong on that front.

I second @Henu's explanation. For me, Neutron gets classified into the mixing category of those 3 he listed.


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## Henu (Mar 6, 2018)

I tend to steer away from Neutron (and such), and pretty much suggest that to anyone who is serious with their (mixing) craft. It's basically the equivalent of composing only with loops and phrases- a good tool for a beginner which will usually get you somewhere and gets a quick job done efficiently, but that's it.

And sorry, I forgot Sonnox from the list. It's a less used brand (might be due to the price) than e.g. Waves, but has a steady userbase and a good reputation/ quality. I've not used them that much as well, but I know they should do the trick like any other brand.


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## Mundano (Mar 6, 2018)

Henu said:


> I tend to steer away from Neutron (and such), and pretty much suggest that to anyone who is serious with their (mixing) craft. It's basically the equivalent of composing only with loops and phrases- a good tool for a beginner which will usually get you somewhere and gets a quick job done efficiently, but that's it.
> 
> And sorry, I forgot Sonnox from the list. It's a less used brand (might be due to the price) than e.g. Waves, but has a steady userbase and a good reputation/ quality. I've not used them that much as well, but I know they should do the trick like any other brand.


what would be your favorite software/plugin/bundle for mastering?


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## Henu (Mar 6, 2018)

I use different tools for different tasks, but new become favourite has to be Kush Audio's Novatron for compression. It's pretty much the best software compressor I've ever used for mojo. For the cleanest possible compression, I prefer Fabfilter's Pro-C.

Other than that, my steady workhorses are always Fabfilter ProQ-2 for surgical EQ and Waves Puigtec for broad EQ, and usually Ozone 7 as a limiter. But the limiter is usually the one which keeps changing according to the project- sometimes I want the punch from Slate's FG-X, sometimes I want to tame the low end with Waves L316 and sometimes I just want the levels up as transparent as possible with Ozone 7.


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## Mundano (Mar 6, 2018)

Henu said:


> I use different tools for different tasks, but new become favourite has to be Kush Audio's Novatron for compression. It's pretty much the best software compressor I've ever used for mojo. For the cleanest possible compression, I prefer Fabfilter's Pro-C.
> 
> Other than that, my steady workhorses are always Fabfilter ProQ-2 for surgical EQ and Waves Puigtec for broad EQ, and usually Ozone 7 as a limiter. But the limiter is usually the one which keeps changing according to the project- sometimes I want the punch from Slate's FG-X, sometimes I want to tame the low end with Waves L316 and sometimes I just want the levels up as transparent as possible with Ozone 7.


thx for advising!


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## Mundano (Mar 6, 2018)

storyteller said:


> Truthfully, I actually thought tonal balance was going to be a gimmick. Color me wildly surprised and wrong on that front.


shines to be good/useful?


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## Henu (Mar 6, 2018)

I personally think tonal balance is 50% universal and 50% artistic call. 
When I mix orchestral stuff, it's way more strictly defined than when I'm mixing..say, raw black metal.


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## leon chevalier (Mar 6, 2018)

Henu said:


> I tend to steer away from Neutron (and such), and pretty much suggest that to anyone who is serious with their (mixing) craft. It's basically the equivalent of composing only with loops and phrases- a good tool for a beginner which will usually get you somewhere and gets a quick job done efficiently, but that's it.


Hey Henu, I don't really understand what makes you tell that. It's just a channel strip. What's so wrong about it ? It does exactly the same things as other channel strips. Like this one : https://www.waves.com/plugins/scheps-omni-channel . It's just Eq, Comp, Gate, Excite, Limit...

If you think it's a software that mixes for you, that is not at all the case. It doesn't know what happen on the other tracks of your DAW, so it does not take any mixing decision for you, in any way. So it's not fair to compare it to a phrase library.

It can give you hints on what to do, by doing some "signal analysis" but that is based on the plugin input signal alone. So no mixing choice. You can also link two instances to solve some frequency masking, but again not mixing. At last you can pan and set the volume of all your neutron instance from a single place. Again no mixing advice here.

And honestly I don't use those functionalities at all.

I'm not saying that they will never take that road : Put one neutron instance one each track insert and clic "mix". But today it's not about that. But I agree that their commercial can be ambiguous with their "smart mixing" line.

I just like the way each plugin work, the UI and the workflow. I like to have all in one place, under the mouse.

I may be not aware of something that it does wrong, but from my (not professional) point of view, it's just 6 plugins group into one, each extremely well designed.


You will see me very rarely "debate" here. I just post (to try) to help or (to try) to be funny. But this time, I felt it was not fair. Sorry.

This said, a totally respect that you've got own point of view. All the best for you.

Leon


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## gsilbers (Mar 6, 2018)

i would recommend not fall into the "real price of X but now its only X" tactques. cuz waves say their plugins cost like $399 and sell them for $29. same with other companies. all of these are great tools its just the business side of things makes people crazy. 

also, fyi plugging alliance is doing the rent to own thing. 

https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/pick-pack.html

my only advise would be to watch some mastering tutorials not affiliated with any product but engineers that might do stuff like you compose or like and watch what they are doing and the tools they use or what they think when they use those tools.


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## khollister (Mar 6, 2018)

Mundano said:


> what would be your favorite software/plugin/bundle for mastering?



One answer (which most people don't want to hear) is you have most everything you need already in Logic or Cubase. While the EQ's, dynamics processors and various other utility plugs aren't the ultimate, they are actually pretty decent. If you can't get most of the way there with tools you likely already have, dropping several hundred on plugins ain't gonna get you there.

Setting aside vintage/color type stuff (which isn't really mastering appropriate anyway), if you are determined to buy something better than what's in the DAW, I would tend to go with the Fabfilter mastering bundle. The EQ and multi-band compressor are about as good as it gets - I have no experience with the limiter and single compressor.

I think the Massenburg parametric EQ is the most musical but neutral thing I have ever used, but it is only available from UAD (what I own) or native in AAX (PT).

The only other thing I think is almost a must have is some type of tape sim. I use the UAD ones (and they are outstanding) but u-he, Slate and others have native ones which I have not used so can't offer an opinion.


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## Mundano (Mar 6, 2018)

khollister said:


> One answer (which most people don't want to hear) is you have most everything you need already in Logic or Cubase. While the EQ's, dynamics processors and various other utility plugs aren't the ultimate, they are actually pretty decent. If you can't get most of the way there with tools you likely already have, dropping several hundred on plugins ain't gonna get you there.
> 
> Setting aside vintage/color type stuff (which isn't really mastering appropriate anyway), if you are determined to buy something better than what's in the DAW, I would tend to go with the Fabfilter mastering bundle. The EQ and multi-band compressor are about as good as it gets - I have no experience with the limiter and single compressor.
> 
> ...



I have three DAWs... lol, Reaper, Logic, and the last i bought is Harrison Mixbus exactly for the reason of tape saturation; Mixbus channel strip is pretty good too and the EQ-plugin does its job. Equalizers in Reaper and Logic are good, but i tend to say it felts something. I have tested the free Acustica-Audio equalizers Ochre for example and they are far much better and crystalline that the Logic & Reaper DAWs ones. For that would i think about FabFilter Mastering bundle...
iZotope has me thinking about its RX6 Spectral Editor, i think this thing is a must have for what i've seen, but i know almost nothing about this Tone Balance... I am lazy to download the demo (if there is some one), install and test it. Maybe should i do this, but i don't like to bother my mac with demo software... iZotope Bundle has me dueling cuz of RX6...


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## Mundano (Mar 6, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> i would recommend not fall into the "real price of X but now its only X" tactques. cuz waves say their plugins cost like $399 and sell them for $29. same with other companies. all of these are great tools its just the business side of things makes people crazy.
> 
> also, fyi plugging alliance is doing the rent to own thing.
> 
> ...



yes, i don't want to fall into this craziness. I want to finish a product with good sound, and the final step (would be a hardware console..., hardware equalizers, tube compressors) in my mac would be a mastering crystalline bundle. The achievement with DAW plugins must be good, i know, but i would like to ask you @khollister if you only remain using DAW plugins for mastering? I think a must-have is a good mastering limiter, multiband compressor, crystalline equalizer, spectral analyzer/editor, precise metering/loudness advisor, tape saturation, tilt eq, spatial analyzer.. i haven't explored Logic's last updates because i was busy working 4 months on a project with reaper and mixbus nonstop...


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## khollister (Mar 6, 2018)

Mundano said:


> The achievement with DAW plugins must be good, i know, but i would like to ask you @khollister if you only remain using DAW plugins for mastering? I think a must-have is a good mastering limiter, multiband compressor, crystalline equalizer, spectral analyser/editor, precise metering/loudness advisor, tape saturation, tilt eq, spatial analyzer.. i haven't explored Logic's last updates because i was busy working 4 months on a project with reaper and mixbus nonstop...



I own a huge amount of UAD plugins, Slate VMR, more reverbs than I can count, the NI Komplete effects plus some of the Ultimate ones, and a bunch of other stuff that I never/rarely use. I plan on picking up the Fabfilter stuff the next good sale that comes along (I have demoed the EQ and MB compressor). So no, I'm not just using Logic on my main rig - but I know I could and not have my tracks sound like crap. On the other hand, I'm configuring a mobile/traveling rig with my MacBook Pro, Korg Microkey, Scarlett 212 I have lying around and a Samsung T5 SSD for samples. Guess what? - I'm not installing a single 3rd party signal processing plugin other than NI Replika XT and Transient Master. I'm even using Chromaverb and Space Designer as my only reverbs. If I owned Pro-Q 2 and Pro-MB, they would be installed too.

There are a lot of plugins that sound better than almost every single Logic plugin - the point is the Logic stuff is largely good enough. The quality of our mixes has a lot more to do with skill and talent than plugins. Face it, most of us ain't Bob Katz, Bernie Grundman, Bob Ludwig, etc.


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## Henu (Mar 7, 2018)

@leon chevalier 

Now that was a well- thought post and I appreciate your standpoint. Naturally, I have nothing against channel strips- in fact, I use Slate VMR all the time, and don't get me started on the different console emulations from Waves, of which I love, haha!

It's just the recent trend which bugs me here- just like the Wave's "Celebrity X One Button Miracle Plugin" cheap "tools", I have hard time coping with the idea of a plugin mixes a track for you with one button. Being a producer and a mixing engineer myself, I do understand the value of efficient working methods and sometimes these plugins can actually sugar- coat something even better you could had done with only the basic tools. However, I tend to take these one-button- miracles as not very professional tools for serious mixing work, but more either as guidelines or enhancers.

Using a plugin Manny Marroquin stamped his name on won't make anyone sounds like Manny Marroquin- just like using Hans Zimmer Percussion doesn't make you sound like Hans unless you know what you are doing _before_ you slap the plugin on. And I guess that's my biggest problem here, as I feel we're too often being fooled to think that buying this one product makes us sound good (no matter if we talk about music composing or production/ mixing) but we tend to forget the work which needs to be done _before_ using the product. 

I understand that many composers aren't that interested on mixing, but I can assure that the more anyone puts some effort to that, the better results you will achieve!


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## Mundano (Mar 7, 2018)

Henu said:


> @leon chevalier
> 
> Now that was a well- thought post and I appreciate your standpoint. Naturally, I have nothing against channel strips- in fact, I use Slate VMR all the time, and don't get me started on the different console emulations from Waves, of which I love, haha!
> 
> ...


i am %100 with you here. I am asking of iZotope offers and other bundles, because of the tools. I know one has to put work on it to get to a good sound. That's what i do; but i don't have already this tools and i wonder if other guys find them useful for mastering. That is the reason of asking. I want to hear how people are working.
I see this offers and i say to myself, "oh there i could get this tool that felts me right now", like a good limiter or a restoration tool or a crystal clear equalizer, or a good saturator/harmonic enhancer, etc. For example i don't have Waves products, but in the studio of a friend of mine, he uses Cubases and Waves, wich i don't like. I tend to look at other companies now. Thanx for Fabfilter heads up, looks very interesting and professionell. iZotope keeps me deciding because of its RX6 Editor. I used to work with Sound Forge in the good old times (in the 90's)  , Windows, but i am now on Mac..


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## Pontus Rufelt (Mar 7, 2018)

A slightly different suggestion I have is to check out the Softube Console 1. In case you don't know of it, it's a hardware unit that comes with software that emulates a console (bundled with it is an emulation of the SSL SL 4000 E). Think of it as replacing the Cubase channel strip with an independent, hardware-controlled, software console with the essentials, some Gate/transient control, 4-band EQ, Compressor, Harmonic distortion/saturation.

I needed some new plugins, as I wanted to get out of the Slate subscription model (I was happy with the Slate plugins, but something about subscriptions don't sit well with me), and ended up getting it. You put a Console 1 plugin on each bus/aux and then you have immediate control over everything on the hardware unit. It really is quite the difference turning real hardware knobs and not having to constantly look at interfaces. The interface has a number of different modes, including ones that give very little visual feedback, which really helped force me to listen to what I was doing rather than look at what I was doing. Though, depending on what you're looking to do, this might not be a good suggestion, but it really helped me improve my mixing, so I thought I'd mention it. At 499 it's quite the steal in my opinion, getting hardware and software! It has its limitations, but I highly recommend looking into it.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Mar 10, 2018)

@Mundano Two things you should know about Izotope, if you don't already.

First, you can download a fully functional 10 day free trial of all their software. 

Second, Izotope gives significant discounts when you own some of their software, like Iris, Breaktweaker, Trash, Alloy, Vocal Synth, etc. So, for example, I bought Iris 2 for $49--it's often on sale for that. I like Iris 2; I certainly didn't buy it for discounts. 

But because I have Iris 2, I can currently get Neutron 2 and Ozone 8 for $250 and the Music Production Suite for $350. 

Personally, I am resisting this deal for the moment. Instead I have signed up for Groove 3 and am trying to educate myself about things like EQ, compression, delay, etc., so I can make better use of the many plugins I already own.


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## jtnyc (Mar 10, 2018)

Mundano said:


> i am %100 with you here. I am asking of iZotope offers and other bundles, because of the tools. I know one has to put work on it to get to a good sound. That's what i do; but i don't have already this tools and i wonder if other guys find them useful for mastering. That is the reason of asking. I want to hear how people are working.
> I see this offers and i say to myself, "oh there i could get this tool that felts me right now", like a good limiter or a restoration tool or a crystal clear equalizer, or a good saturator/harmonic enhancer, etc. For example i don't have Waves products, but in the studio of a friend of mine, he uses Cubases and Waves, wich i don't like. I tend to look at other companies now. Thanx for Fabfilter heads up, looks very interesting and professionell. iZotope keeps me deciding because of its RX6 Editor. I used to work with Sound Forge in the good old times (in the 90's)  , Windows, but i am now on Mac..



I will once again say, download the Fab Filter stuff and try it out. Their stuff sounds stellar and the UI experience in second to none. Do it! Haha..... and of coarse demo the others as well. Why try and decide by listening to us. Listen to the plugins instead.


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