# Phaseplant!!!!!!



## José Herring

Holy shit! I just got this synth. I decided to go subscription even though I hate subscriptions but at $10/month I can bury in some credit account and not even worry about it, and you get the new stuff as it comes out, I figured I'd try before I buy. So been fooling around with it tonight and JESUS!!!! It's everything I wanted in a synth. I can't believe the sound.

Amazing. Just thought I'd share.


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## muziksculp

Cool ! Enjoy 

Have you had a chance to check out *Vital* ? 

https://vital.audio/

I decided to get Vital instead of Phase Plant. But I might also get Phase Plant in the future. 

We are lucky to have so many great synth options these days.


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## RogiervG

ok!!!!!!


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## Fidelity

If you like it you should put a ring (mod) on it

...sorry, couldn't resist. It's a dope synth.


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## José Herring

muziksculp said:


> Cool ! Enjoy
> 
> Have you had a chance to check out *Vital* ?
> 
> https://vital.audio/
> 
> I decided to get Vital instead of Phase Plant. But I might also get Phase Plant in the future.
> 
> We are lucky to have so many great synth options these days.


Yes I have a love Vital as well. Great synth.


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## muziksculp

José Herring said:


> Yes I have a love Vital as well. Great synth.


Yes, it's a wonderful synth. 

I will be interested to know how you like Phase Plant compared to Vital

Thanks.


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## Markrs

Good to hear you like it.

I thought about getting phase plant and picked up a few of the Kilohearts effects that can be used in it. In the end I went with getting Pigments when that was on deal, rather than go down the Phase Plant route.


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## José Herring

muziksculp said:


> Yes, it's a wonderful synth.
> 
> I will be interested to know how you like Phase Plant compared to Vital
> 
> Thanks.


I'm just learning both really but here's my opinion.

Phaseplant has a wavetable synth but it also has 3 other sound generators and one is a sampler. Vital as far as I can tell is just Wavetable synthesis.

Vital is much more of a traditional style wavetable with a fixed amount of osc (3) and a noise osc. If there's a way to add more osc I can't find it so I assumed that it's a fixed number. Phaseplat is much more modular and you can add as many generators as you want in any combination as well as LFO's, enevlopes, ect. the FX are also modular.

The routing is very much the same in both which I found quite interesting. It's a new style of routing. Vital is a little more drag and drop while Phaseplant is more point and click if that makes any sense but essentially they are the same idea. Almost anything can be routed almost anywhere straight up front on the panel. 

The sound quality of both is nearly identical. They both are through the roof the best two soft synths I have. Digital w/o being harsh sounding. Phaseplant maybe has a little bit in the way of that digital noise when the tail dies off into the noise floor. I'm still testing it out though but I kind of noticed that right away and I never noticed that in Vital. 

I love Vital. But, Phaseplant to me just has that sound. It's just a sound that I've been after for a while, it's very animated yet not harsh. Like I think every synth is designed these days to sound like Skrylex and I'm just not that into that harsh aesthetic. Vital leans in that direction but can also sound very smooth and silky. Phaseplant leans to the smooth and silky direction but doesn't immediate go to harsh. 

I'm still quite learning both though. In the end both are great synths and they represent something that I've wanted in soft synths for a long time. 

If you have Vital then to sum up Phaseplant could be considered Vital with modular capabilities, the ability add as many modules as you want, plus the ability to use 4 different kinds of sound generators and more FX and better ability to route those FX. With Phaseplant you can build different kind of synthesis where with Vital you get just one kind of synthesis even though it has traditional wave forms as part of it's wavetables.


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## José Herring

One this in the plus department for Vital is that it seems to be more capable as a straight up Wavetable synth with the ability to apply some westcoast synthesis style waveshaping using numerous spectral waveforms on the wavetables which opens up a lot of possibilities for creating very unique sounds.


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## José Herring

As I compare them side by side I'm noticing that both have fairly basic filters so, they are more leaning towards the Westcoast style of creating unique sounds by adding and combining interesting waveforms and shapes rather than the Eastcoast subtractive style synthesis.

edit: Vital actually under the hood in a drop down menu really has a lot of different filters. Going through them now. Very nice stuff. 

As far as great synths I have to say they are different but I love them equally the same.


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## muziksculp

@José Herring ,

Thank You for the helpful feedback on Vital vs Phase Plant.


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## doctoremmet

José, as always I like your enthusiasm man! I am also happy you found “that” synth - the one that RESONATES with you. Very cool. You’re a true synthhead.


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## sostenuto

Markrs said:


> Good to hear you like it.
> 
> I thought about getting phase plant and picked up a few of the Kilohearts effects that can be used in it. In the end I went with getting Pigments when that was on deal, rather than go down the Phase Plant route.


Much the same _ _heavily due to cost_. Pigments3 _Sale_ was strong, and have Vital Plus. 

Demo'd Phaseplant and joined their Site in hopes of notable Sale. Nothing so far.


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## rydan

José Herring said:


> It's a new style of routing.


Depends on whether you think FabFilter Twin2 and NI Massive are new or not... ;o)

It's a pretty great way of routing though. Wish Arturia had gone that route with Pigments.


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## R. Naroth

I’ve been tempted to take the subscription. The flexible, mix and match architecture looks very nice as well. Thanks for the extra push, this is definitely going to be my next one.. or the UVI Falcon. Do you think the sound quality is on par with Zebra?


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## Dirtgrain

The Kilohearts' plugins are okay, but some are so limited. For example, the comb filter in Zebra 2 is on another level than the simple one in Phase Plant. Filter-wise, Kilohearts' non-linear filter sounds good, but I've not compared it with Zebra's.


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## José Herring

R. Naroth said:


> I’ve been tempted to take the subscription. The flexible, mix and match architecture looks very nice as well. Thanks for the extra push, this is definitely going to be my next one.. or the UVI Falcon. Do you think the sound quality is on par with Zebra?


Yes I do think they are equal in quality but quite different sounding. Zebra is just so hard to beat sound wise but it leans in the direction of being more of an analog modeled synth. Phase Plant has analog osc but there's no escaping that it's a different sound. More digital. I'll pull up both and do a side by side comparison tonight.


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## José Herring

R. Naroth said:


> I’ve been tempted to take the subscription. The flexible, mix and match architecture looks very nice as well. Thanks for the extra push, this is definitely going to be my next one.. or the UVI Falcon. Do you think the sound quality is on par with Zebra?


They are so different it is hard to make a comparison. But overall in the synth department I have to hand it to Zebra for just being rich and deep in sound and with an incredible low end and amazing modulation choices. 

I hand it to Phase Plant for being intuitive, offering different types of synthesis osc engines and being able to route almost anything anywhere. Also, Phase Plant for better FX overall. 

I really wouldn't go with out either as they are different kinds of synthesis entirely.


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## KEM

I have the Slate bundle, I wish they’d add Phaseplant as part of it, would download it in a heartbeat. Junkie XL even did a video on the top 5 synths in his new template and Phaseplant was one of them, so it’s definitely getting a lot of love in the industry right now


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## Pier

KEM said:


> Junkie XL even did a video on the top 5 synths


This is the video:




* Knifonium
* PhasePlant
* Buchla Easel V
* Massive X
* Generate


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## Pier

Is anyone making cinematic sounds for Phase Plant?

I've been looking around but all I can find is EDM stuff.


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## Jaap

Pier said:


> Is anyone making cinematic sounds for Phase Plant?
> 
> I've been looking around but all I can find is EDM stuff.


I am working on a cinematic (but with a hang to the experimental side) set that likely will be released at the end of the year.


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## Pier

So I paid one month of the subscription and Phase Plant is really amazing.

I sent an email to KiloHearts and they were really happy to share some ideas they have for the future like multi samples and improving the browser.


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## KEM

Pier said:


> So I paid one month of the subscription and Phase Plant is really amazing.
> 
> I sent an email to KiloHearts and they were really happy to share some ideas they have for the future like multi samples and improving the browser.



So now you’re gonna tell me to get it huh lol


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## José Herring

muziksculp said:


> Yes, it's a wonderful synth.
> 
> I will be interested to know how you like Phase Plant compared to Vital
> 
> Thanks.


I learned a little more about Vital the other day. I think I had mentioned that you couldn't load your own samples in Vital, well, I was wrong. Vital has a 4th noise osc that you can drag and drop your own samples in. Was kind of a hidden feature but there it is.


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## Pier

José Herring said:


> I learned a little more about Vital the other day. I think I had mentioned that you couldn't load your own samples in Vital, well, I was wrong. Vital has a 4th noise osc that you can drag and drop your own samples in. Was kind of a hidden feature but there it is.


You can also import .wav files as wavetables too.

The flexibility of PhasePlant is much superior though


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## charlieclouser

Late to the party but I just got the Toolbox Ultimate for half price, and Phase Plant sounds really, *really* good. 

It really jumps out of the speakers, has great deep and solid bottom end, and the UI is fantastic. Sonically it's up there with Zebra for sure, but is way more versatile with all the sample and wavetable stuff.

And with the big bundle you get the MultiPass and all the bits for Snap Heap. All are super quick to use, and some are just great to have - Reverser, Trance Gate, etc. So fast and so good.


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## Bee_Abney

I demoed Phaseplant but have held off buying it since the subscription is, unusually, a very good deal. It does sound amazing; but somehow not quite right for me. I think it is because the sounds it does very well, as with some other good wavetable synths, are sounds that I think physical modelling does even better. I’m undecided as yet, though. Dune, by contrast, does certain things amazingly that I don’t hear done well on any other synth, so that edged out Phaseplant for me. Of course, Phaseplant gives you way more to play with.


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## Kuusniemi

Pier said:


> Is anyone making cinematic sounds for Phase Plant?
> 
> I've been looking around but all I can find is EDM stuff


I maybe late to this thread, but I am. 








Fawkes | Man Makes Noise


Fawkes organic cinematic suspense and tension patches for Kilohearts' Phase Plant from Man Makes Noise.




www.manmakesnoise.com


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## KEM

Guess I should get Phaseplant as well…


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## b_elliott

José Herring said:


> I learned a little more about Vital the other day. I think I had mentioned that you couldn't load your own samples in Vital, well, I was wrong. Vital has a 4th noise osc that you can drag and drop your own samples in. Was kind of a hidden feature but there it is.


I discovered this through watching a DataBroth jam using Vital (one of many). I picked up his wavetable creations and got them to not only work inside Vital, but inside Falcon2 as well as Msoundfactory.
Broth's stuff is solid.


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## José Herring

b_elliott said:


> I discovered through watching a DataBroth jam with Vital (one of many). I picked up his wavetable creations and got them to not only work inside Vital, but inside Falcon2 as well as Msoundfactory.
> Broth's stuff is solid.


He is. I watched his tutorial on Reason's FM synth Algorytm and I went from fumbling around to master of that synth in just a few minutes of watching his video. But, I must admit, I have a hard time sitting through his hour long jam sessions. Some call it ADHD, I call it--I'm getting too old to waste this amount of time. Only so many rotations around the sun left for me.


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## Bee_Abney

José Herring said:


> He is. I watched his tutorial on Reaon's FM synth Algorytm and I went from fumbling around to master of that synth in just a few minutes of watching his video. But, I must admit, I have a hard time sitting through his hour long jam sessions. Some call it ADHD, I call it--I'm getting too old to waste this amount of time. Only so many rotations around the sun left for me.


As the academic and writer Brian Barry said, at an early point in his career he had to decide if he was going to read a lot or write a lot, as he didn't have time for both. He chose writing.


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## Kuusniemi

charlieclouser said:


> Late to the party but I just got the Toolbox Ultimate for half price, and Phase Plant sounds really, *really* good.
> 
> It really jumps out of the speakers, has great deep and solid bottom end, and the UI is fantastic. Sonically it's up there with Zebra for sure, but is way more versatile with all the sample and wavetable stuff.
> 
> And with the big bundle you get the MultiPass and all the bits for Snap Heap. All are super quick to use, and some are just great to have - Reverser, Trance Gate, etc. So fast and so good.


What I think people don't realize is how easy and intuitive PP actually is. And the fact that you can use MultiPass and Snap Heap inside PP...

And the sample module is actually very very good.


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## b_elliott

José Herring said:


> He is. I watched his tutorial on Reason's FM synth Algorytm and I went from fumbling around to master of that synth in just a few minutes of watching his video. But, I must admit, I have a hard time sitting through his hour long jam sessions. Some call it ADHD, I call it--I'm getting too old to waste this amount of time. Only so many rotations around the sun left for me.


I've settled on playing his jams while I do other things. When something catches my attention I'll note the time to review later in detail. My brain can thus be used for other mind-numbing tasks (cooking, reading....) Have watched baseball games, no audio, just Broth's. But, that's me.


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## Kuusniemi

Bee_Abney said:


> I demoed Phaseplant but have held off buying it since the subscription is, unusually, a very good deal. It does sound amazing; but somehow not quite right for me. I think it is because the sounds it does very well, as with some other good wavetable synths, are sounds that I think physical modelling does even better. I’m undecided as yet, though. Dune, by contrast, does certain things amazingly that I don’t hear done well on any other synth, so that edged out Phaseplant for me. Of course, Phaseplant gives you way more to play with.


PP is just so much more than a wavetable synth. It's more like Omnisphere than Serum or Vital.


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## Bee_Abney

Kuusniemi said:


> PP is just so much more than a wavetable synth. It's more like Omnisphere than Serum or Vital.


Sorry, I do realise; I wasn't being clear at all. I have Omnisphere and Falcon, so I was particularly interested in the sounds that Phaseplant seemed to be better at than them. Those are also, I believe, wavetable heavy sounds. I could, of course, be completely wrong. I didn't go deep enough in the brief time I had to play with it at that time. The modulation and effects are certainly aspects that make it stand out as well.

I'll get there! It takes me awhile to come around to something new (to me) and complex!

Your Fawkes soundset is a bit of a temptation to delve into Phaseplant as well. That soundset has a really good idea behind it. The thriller-like elements are great, but the movement makes it really interesting.


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## Pier

Kuusniemi said:


> PP is just so much more than a wavetable synth. It's more like Omnisphere than Serum or Vital.


Yeah with a dash of Bazille too considering the audio rate modulation features.


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## Kuusniemi

Bee_Abney said:


> Sorry, I do realise; I wasn't being clear at all. I have Omnisphere and Falcon, so I was particularly interested in the sounds that Phaseplant seemed to be better at than them. Those are also, I believe, wavetable heavy sounds. I could, of course, be completely wrong. I didn't go deep enough in the brief time I had to play with it at that time. The modulation and effects are certainly aspects that make it stand out as well.
> 
> I'll get there! It takes me awhile to come around to something new (to me) and complex!
> 
> Your Fawkes soundset is a bit of a temptation to delve into Phaseplant as well. That soundset has a really good idea behind it. The thriller-like elements are great, but the movement makes it really interesting.


No worries, as a PP enthusiast (I admit it, I'm a huge fan of PP) it feels that a lot of people do not really see what PP can do and keep thinking it is something like Vital or Serum. I've found Omnisphere to be closest, both have a synth side and can use samples. 

Thanks, Fawkes was really fun to make!


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## Kuusniemi

Pier said:


> Yeah with a dash of Bazille too considering the audio rate modulation features.


Now Kilohearts only needs to add that granular module... :D


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## José Herring

Pier said:


> So I paid one month of the subscription and Phase Plant is really amazing.
> 
> I sent an email to KiloHearts and they were really happy to share some ideas they have for the future like multi samples and improving the browser.


Curious as to the mutli samples development here. Is Kilo planing on making PP having the capability of a full fledged sampler with mappings rr ect.?


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## Kuusniemi

José Herring said:


> Curious as to the mutli samples development here. Is Kilo planing on making PP having the capability of a full fledged sampler with mappings rr ect.?


Oh, that would be sooooooo nice...


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## Bee_Abney

Kuusniemi said:


> Now Kilohearts only needs to add that granular module... :D


If it's good and not murky, I'll become very interested. While it's no good for patching inside the synth and it doesn't have great automation, I've found Delta Sound Lab's Stream to be a great granular effect for only $49. It's no Crusher-X, of course... I like to use it as a send effect on lots of things, but especially pads. Follow it with something like Sound Particles' Energy Panner, Waves' Brauer Motion or Ina-GRM's Space3D and you can add some great virtual spatially moving complexity on top of the base sound. (It is outstanding on cellos.) 

If PhasePlant can do that (well) from the inside... then that would be very special.


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## Pier

José Herring said:


> Curious as to the mutli samples development here. Is Kilo planing on making PP having the capability of a full fledged sampler with mappings rr ect.?





Kuusniemi said:


> Now Kilohearts only needs to add that granular module... :D


They said multisampling, sample stretching modes, and granular were ideas they were considering for future updates. Neither of those might happen though.

That's all I know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Pier

BTW it's already possible to do some basic granular stuff with PhasePlant by enabling unison in the sampler generator:


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## Kuusniemi

Pier said:


> BTW it's already possible to do some basic granular stuff with PhasePlant by enabling unison in the sampler generator:



The sampler module is very good already. But a proper granular module would be soooo nice (not going put the drool Patrick here again). Something like Quanta with the possibility to actually a completely frozen grain...

Well, a man can always dream. :D


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## Wes Mayhall

Kuusniemi said:


> Oh, that would be sooooooo nice...


Just by way of comparison, Falcon has multi-sample support now. It accepts .sfz files directly.


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## Kuusniemi

Wes Mayhall said:


> Just by way of comparison, Falcon has multi-sample support now. It accepts .sfz files directly.


Yes and as such PP is not currently comperable to it. 

On the other hand PP beats Falcon in work flow and intuitiveness hands down. Falcon is a fantastic multisampler synth, but for sheer fun PP is the better tool. At least for me.

And I've said it here before, the sample module is very good and capable of doing quite a lot of things.


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## Bee_Abney

Kuusniemi said:


> Yes and as such PP is not currently comperable to it.
> 
> On the other hand PP beats Falcon in work flow and intuitiveness hands down. Falcon is a fantastic multisampler synth, but for sheer fun PP is the better tool. At least for me.
> 
> And I've said it here before, the sample module is very good and capable of doing quite a lot of things.


Rghtly or wrongly, I sort of think of PhasePlant as the Bitwig of power synths. 

You know, for kids! 

(I'm running away now, thumbing my nose at you!)


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## Kuusniemi

Bee_Abney said:


> Rghtly or wrongly, I sort of think of PhasePlant as the Bitwig of power synths.
> 
> You know, for kids!
> 
> (I'm running away now, thumbing my nose at you!)


Should I also say that I do love Bitwig as well... :D


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## Pier

Kuusniemi said:


> Should I also say that I do love Bitwig as well... :D


So do I 😂


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## grabauf

Pier said:


> So do I 😂


Me too.
Let's join the kids club.


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## doctoremmet

So Phase Plant experts, help a fellow synth head out. After my recent purchases of Halion 6 and Zebra HZ, PP keeps tempting me.

Time+Space seem to have the best € deal for me. What’s the best option here? Toolkit PRO has all the snapin effects apparently, but then there’s ultimate that appears to have two or three additional ones as well as the multiband processing. Do those options really offer a €100 value though? 

Or skip the snapins all together and just get the synth and do the effects externally with Mxxx or whatever?

What has been your “investment” strategy? I could also just stick with the subscription, and see what personal use case I will ultimately develop, but I am curious what your opinions are. Any input is much appreciated. Cheers.


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## Kuusniemi

doctoremmet said:


> So Phase Plant experts, help a fellow synth head out. After my recent purchases of Halion 6 and Zebra HZ, PP keeps tempting me.
> 
> Time+Space seem to have the best € deal for me. What’s the best option here? Toolkit PRO has all the snapin effects apparently, but then there’s ultimate that appears to have two or three additional ones as well as the multiband processing. Do those options really offer a €100 value though?
> 
> Or skip the snapins all together and just get the synth and do the effects externally with Mxxx or whatever?
> 
> What has been your “investment” strategy? I could also just stick with the subscription, and see what personal use case I will ultimately develop, but I am curious what your opinions are. Any input is much appreciated. Cheers.


I would say get the snapins. Whether the Ultimate or Pro Toolkit is whether you can live without the EQs and multipass. You can always add those later. My path with Kilohearts was to get a few of the snapins here and there on sale and then upgrade to the bundles. Kilohearts offers very good upgrades.

Multipass is a fantastic tool as a standalone effect as well as inside PP. If you want to venture on with PP then the more of the ecosystem you have the more possibilities it will give you. The modulation possibilities inside PP for me outweight the possibilities with external effects.


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## GregSilver

grabauf said:


> Me too.
> Let's join the kids club.


You've already joined the darkleton side!!! Forget about Bitwig!


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## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> So Phase Plant experts, help a fellow synth head out. After my recent purchases of Halion 6 and Zebra HZ, PP keeps tempting me.
> 
> Time+Space seem to have the best € deal for me. What’s the best option here? Toolkit PRO has all the snapin effects apparently, but then there’s ultimate that appears to have two or three additional ones as well as the multiband processing. Do those options really offer a €100 value though?
> 
> Or skip the snapins all together and just get the synth and do the effects externally with Mxxx or whatever?
> 
> What has been your “investment” strategy? I could also just stick with the subscription, and see what personal use case I will ultimately develop, but I am curious what your opinions are. Any input is much appreciated. Cheers.


You probably know about the voucher you get after a twelve-month subscription. For €120 over twelve months you get a €100 voucher. You can also pause the subscription.

But, the prices are good now if you're happy to collect synths even if you end up not using it much. I think you'll like it, anyway. 

Multipass is good in itself. I got it for half price with a view to building up snapins over time. I haven't warmed to it myself, but it offers an alternative to Mxxx (which I don't have yet).


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## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> So Phase Plant experts, help a fellow synth head out. After my recent purchases of Halion 6 and Zebra HZ, PP keeps tempting me.
> 
> Time+Space seem to have the best € deal for me. What’s the best option here? Toolkit PRO has all the snapin effects apparently, but then there’s ultimate that appears to have two or three additional ones as well as the multiband processing. Do those options really offer a €100 value though?
> 
> Or skip the snapins all together and just get the synth and do the effects externally with Mxxx or whatever?
> 
> What has been your “investment” strategy? I could also just stick with the subscription, and see what personal use case I will ultimately develop, but I am curious what your opinions are. Any input is much appreciated. Cheers.


The snapins form and integral part of the synth. You can even use the synths modulators to modulate the fx. It's an all inclusive modular system. 

I decided to go sub because it was cheaper for me than shelling out the $500 for the whole thing. Though I will end up doing that sooner or later. PP is a great synth and even has more tremendous potential.

I would miss a few things from the Ultimate package if I go professional but not sure that those few things are worth the extra $100. Right now I don't have to decide that.

Curious about Hallion 6 though. For me my 2022 synth platform investment will UVI Falcon but I'm listen to some work done by Danny Lux on a tv show and it sounds incredible. His main workhorse is Hallion.


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## KEM

doctoremmet said:


> PP keeps tempting me.



Uhhhhhh Doc, is there something you want to tell us…??


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## Wes Mayhall

Bee_Abney said:


> For €120 over twelve months you get a €100 voucher.


Just take into account, if you want to hold out for a Black Friday deal, "Subscriber Rewards coupons cannot be combined with any other coupons or discount promotions."


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## Bee_Abney

Wes Mayhall said:


> Just take into account, if you want to hold out for a Black Friday deal, "Subscriber Rewards coupons cannot be combined with any other coupons or discount promotions."


I'd forgotten that! Thank you. That makes an outright purchase a better choice during a sale, finances permitting.


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## doctoremmet

KEM said:


> Uhhhhhh Doc, is there something you want to tell us…??


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## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> Curious about Hallion 6 though. For me my 2022 synth platform investment will UVI Falcon but I'm listen to some work done by Danny Lux on a tv show and it sounds incredible. His main workhorse is Hallion.


As part of my further Halion 6 explorations I also got the most excellent Sample Fuel Hybrid pack (50% off at Steinberg, final day today) which comprises of two synths built completely in Halion. They were used by Lux on the Manifest soundtrack.





And they sound terrific.


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## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> As part of my further Halion 6 explorations I also got the most excellent Sample Fuel Hybrid pack (50% off at Steinberg, final day today) which comprises of two synths built completely in Halion. They were used by Lux on the Manifest soundtrack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And they sound terrific.



Long-time respect, enjoyment of all Sample Fuel libs. Great support when needed, and steady Updates. 
Trusting you will explore much more deeply, and share useful tips for shallow-divers ! 😜


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## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> As part of my further Halion 6 explorations I also got the most excellent Sample Fuel Hybrid pack (50% off at Steinberg, final day today) which comprises of two synths built completely in Halion. They were used by Lux on the Manifest soundtrack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And they sound terrific.



I'm still fighting the temptation to get Iconica and Metal & Ice. One more day of fighting!


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## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm still fighting the temptation to get Iconica and Metal & Ice. One more day of fighting!


Same. I’ve dialed down the Iconica GAS to Sections & Players “only” to kid myself the no-brainer-level increases. I have about 5 full orchestral bundles at this point. And zero finished tracks on this here forum, lol. So yeah. No? Yeah. No. Yeah?


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## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Long-time respect, enjoyment of all Sample Fuel libs. Great support when needed, and steady Updates.
> Trusting you will explore much more deeply, and share useful tips for shallow-divers ! 😜


From what I’ve heard in the presets that come with these synths, Sample Fuel are onto something. Really curated stuff, geared towards TV underscoring. Lovely. It seems they’re indeed rolling out a V3 update, which hasn’t arrived at the Steinberg Download Manager yet, but according to support likely will do soon. So first impressions: excellent developer that somehow managed to escape my radar up until very recently.


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## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> One more day of fighting!


Ends tonight at midnight, yeah?


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## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Ends tonight at midnight, yeah?


One way or the other... 

No! Be strong! Please, please stay strong...


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> One way or the other...
> 
> No! Be strong! Please, please stay strong...


Tik Tok _ Tik Tok _ Tik >  >  Strong ... Strong ...... Strong 👻


----------



## krops

How does Phaseplant compare to Alchemy? (The OG Camel Audio one)


----------



## Bee_Abney

krops said:


> How does Phaseplant compare to Alchemy? (The OG Camel Audio one)


I only played around with a copy of PhasePlant briefly, and I haven't used Alchemy. I can say, though, that Alchemy has more advanced processes for spectral and granular manipulation of samples. Phaseplant has excellent sounds but is most notable for its wide range of modulations and, with snapins added, effects. This makes it very good for complex evolving sounds. It also does simple sounds well.

Hopefully someone else will be able to compare the sounds.


----------



## Kuusniemi

doctoremmet said:


> As part of my further Halion 6 explorations I also got the most excellent Sample Fuel Hybrid pack (50% off at Steinberg, final day today) which comprises of two synths built completely in Halion. They were used by Lux on the Manifest soundtrack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And they sound terrific.



I actually went and grabbed Halion as well since I realised they have a nice crossgrade price... GAS. :D


----------



## doctoremmet

Kuusniemi said:


> I actually went and grabbed Halion as well since I realised they have a nice crossgrade price... GAS. :D


I did that same crossgrade. Apart from my usual gripes about Steinberg UI design (i.e. I am just not used to it yet), Halion is a beautiful thing really as long as one manages to avoid the “it is not synth X” comparison trap 

Have fun with it!


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm still fighting the temptation to get Iconica and Metal & Ice. One more day of fighting!


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


>



I don't have a full orchestra for detailed scoring. Hence the temptation. But I don't really need one. At least not now. And I'm not convinced that Iconica is being well maintained by Steinberg - unlike the recent updates to some other orchestras. But it does sound good; better to me than the near alternatives (EastWest's Opus and 8Dio's Majestica/8W). So I want it.

But I think, maybe, I shouldn't ought to. I shouldn't.

But will I?

More concisely: Get thee behind me Satan!


----------



## doctoremmet

Sorry for the off-topics. I just decided to subscribe and get me some Phase Plant stuff to see whether I’ll end up using it at all.

Cheerfully yours,


Satan


----------



## sostenuto

OT from PhasePlant _ but HALion 6 for Promo $175. is of some interest _ I think ?
So pleased running Sample Fuel with Sonic SE Free. Not 'completely' certain what is gained, for longer term, with HALion 6. Will continue to search and learn, but any major points will be helpful. 😳


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> OT from PhasePlant _ but HALion 6 for Promo $175. is of some interest _ I think ?
> So pleased running Sample Fuel with Sonic SE Free. Not 'completely' certain what is gained, for longer term, with HALion 6. Will continue to search and learn, but any major points will be helpful. 😳


So Sos, you own and use Sample Fuel inside HalionSonic SE now yes? Those are great synths in their own right. Ask yourself this: what options do you miss, in terms of _really deep additional editing?_

Fancy yourself importing raw samples and fiddle around with them? Create your own wavetables by resynthesizing those waves? Build your very own macros and create your “own” synth UI? If so, getting Halion 6 proper will likely add something to your synthesis experience. If not, keep using the Sample Fuel synths - which sonically will sound_ just as great _as any other instrument that’s built on the Halion platform.


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> OT from PhasePlant _ but HALion 6 for Promo $175. is of some interest _ I think ?
> So pleased running Sample Fuel with Sonic SE Free. Not 'completely' certain what is gained, for longer term, with HALion 6. Will continue to search and learn, but any major points will be helpful. 😳


I'm not completely sure myself yet. I haven't had time to learn how to use it. There is a lot you can do with the free version, given the material provided in the particular instruments that you load up. I'm sure you can add your own processing, if you have a mind to, with Halion 6; which is a powerful synth and sample instrument. But I'm not clear on what Halcion Sonic 3 other than a library of samples, ranging from good to bad, via indifferent, much like the Kontakt factory library. Perhaps it is worth quickly perusing the manuals (attached) before the end of today (German time?)






Operation Manual







steinberg.help






Phaseplant is much more of a straightforward synth at the moment; but it wouldn't surprise me if it became a powerful sample instrument in itself. It all depends on Kilohearts and what they think their potential customers would want. So long as it has a reputation as a digital synth for electronic music, it will mainly be attracting people looking for greater developments in relevant areas for that kind of music (or range of kinds of music).



Phase Plant - Operator's Manual


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> So Sos, you own and use Sample Fuel inside HalionSonic SE now yes? Those are great synths in their own right. Ask yourself this: what options do you miss, in terms of _really deep additional editing?_
> 
> Fancy yourself importing raw samples and fiddle around with them? Create your own wavetables by resynthesizing those waves? Build your very own macros and create your “own” synth UI? If so, getting Halion 6 proper will likely add something to your synthesis experience. If not, keep using the Sample Fuel synths - which sonically will sound_ just as great _as any other instrument that’s built on the Halion platform.


Very cool synopsis _ for current analysis ! 
Very clear distinction between your synth deep-diving, and creativity _ 
and my 'find great Presets _ then Tweak' approach. 
Both paths seem to lead to great enjoyment ! 👏🏻


----------



## doctoremmet

sostenuto said:


> Very cool synopsis _ for current analysis !
> Very clear distinction between your synth deep-diving, and creativity _
> and my 'find great Presets _ then Tweak' approach.
> Both paths seem to lead to great enjoyment ! 👏🏻


Oh absolutely. I often load up a preset and just want to learn how someone made it, and then go look for the Edit page. So on a deep architectural level. If you want to be able to tweak the same preset, we’re lucky to live in an era where almost any synth will at least offer a set of macros and access to effects processors, to completely alter the sound or subtly change it to taste, depending on what one aims for. Without the need to hit said Edit button.


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm not completely sure myself yet. I haven't had time to learn how to use it. There is a lot you can do with the free version, given the material provided in the particular instruments that you load up. I'm sure you can add your own processing, if you have a mind to, with Halion 6; which is a powerful synth and sample instrument. But I'm not clear on what Halcion Sonic 3 other than a library of samples, ranging from good to bad, via indifferent, much like the Kontakt factory library. Perhaps it is worth quickly perusing the manuals (attached) before the end of today (German time?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Operation Manual
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steinberg.help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phaseplant is much more of a straightforward synth at the moment; but it wouldn't surprise me if it became a powerful sample instrument in itself. It all depends on Kilohearts and what they think their potential customers would want. So long as it has a reputation as a digital synth for electronic music, it will mainly be attracting people looking for greater developments in relevant areas for that kind of music (or range of kinds of music).
> 
> 
> 
> Phase Plant - Operator's Manual


Operation Manuals ⁉️ ⁉️ There goes my 'fun' time. 🐸 _*ribbit* __( same in German )_


----------



## sostenuto

doctoremmet said:


> Oh absolutely. I often load up a preset and just want to learn how someone made it, and then go look for the Edit page. So on a deep architectural level. If you want to be able to tweak the same preset, we’re lucky to live in an era where almost any synth will at least offer a set of macros and access to effects processors, to completely alter the sound or subtly change it to taste, depending on what one aims for. Without the need to hit said Edit button.


Totally _ yet when heading there in Omni v2.8 __ _ribbit hole_ 😜 

( More OT *gas* __ gotta grab Sonokinetic - Indie while @ $99. Then only lacking Largo to complete my 'bundle' ) 
Smaller 'operation manual' for those great phrases too !


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Totally _ yet when heading there in Omni v2.8 __ _ribbit hole_😜
> 
> ( More OT *gas* __ gotta grab Sonokinetic - Indie while @ $99. Then only lacking Largo to complete my 'bundle' )
> Smaller 'operation manual' for those great phrases too !


Reading manuals is good for you. It feels so good when you finally stop!


----------



## Pier

doctoremmet said:


> As part of my further Halion 6 explorations I also got the most excellent Sample Fuel Hybrid pack (50% off at Steinberg, final day today) which comprises of two synths built completely in Halion. They were used by Lux on the Manifest soundtrack.


This is a great demo.

I thought Halion was like Falcon, but it seems you can build much more complex UIs with it? 🤔

I get the impression from that video that those synths were custom built within Halion?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> This is a great demo.
> 
> I thought Halion was like Falcon, but it seems you can build much more complex UIs with it? 🤔
> 
> I get the impression from that video that those synths were custom built within Halion?


Halion is a lot more like Kontakt than Falcon. With a dash of IK Multimedia's Sample Tank. 

I expect it has a lot to do with how easy they make it to script for.


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> It all depends on Kilohearts and what they think their potential customers would want. So long as it has a reputation as a digital synth for electronic music, it will mainly be attracting people looking for greater developments in relevant areas for that kind of music (or range of kinds of music).


KiloHearts are well established in the (let's call it) EDM market but they are definitely considering expanding into cinematic territory.

We'll see what happens. I really wouldn't be surprised if PhasePlant got multisample support at some point. Seems like the next logical step other than adding more effect modules.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> KiloHearts are well established in the (let's call it) EDM market but they are definitely considering expanding into cinematic territory.
> 
> We'll see what happens. I really wouldn't be surprised if PhasePlant got multisample support at some point. Seems like the next logical step other than adding more effect modules.


I'd have thought granular and spectral might come first, and possibly enhanced physical modelling possibilities. Whatever they do, I'm just pleased they will continue developing it.


----------



## José Herring

sostenuto said:


> OT from PhasePlant _ but HALion 6 for Promo $175. is of some interest _ I think ?
> So pleased running Sample Fuel with Sonic SE Free. Not 'completely' certain what is gained, for longer term, with HALion 6. Will continue to search and learn, but any major points will be helpful. 😳


Oh no guys, I might just end up getting Halion after all this. Maybe what I'll do is think about it too long and then the sale might expire...yeah...


----------



## Bee_Abney

José Herring said:


> Oh no guys, I might just end up getting Halion after all this. Maybe what I'll do is think about it too long and then the sale might expire...yeah...


I've done that a number of times. In fact, that is the only way I ever don't buy something! 

I wish I could simply say 'That would be lovely, but not at this time' and just stop thinking about it. But no, there's always angst, considering the angles, re-counting the coins in my Piggy Bank and then - if I do well and don't buy it - eternal regret.


----------



## José Herring

krops said:


> How does Phaseplant compare to Alchemy? (The OG Camel Audio one)


I use to be an avid user of Alchemy before it went logic only. Phaseplant can do all that Alchemy can do plus a whole lot more.


----------



## Pier

José Herring said:


> I use to be an avid user of Alchemy before it went logic only. Phaseplant can do all that Alchemy can do plus a whole lot more.


Except the spectral analysis thing, no?

I haven't used Alchemy in years, but I seem to remember you could load a sample and it would analyze it and produce some kind of additive generator thing?


----------



## José Herring

Pier said:


> Except the spectral analysis thing, no?
> 
> I haven't used Alchemy in years, but I seem to remember you could load a sample and it would analyze it and produce some kind of additive generator thing?


Yes I had forgotten about that. It always sounded too weird to me though. Did you use it?


----------



## doctoremmet

Pier said:


> This is a great demo.
> 
> I thought Halion was like Falcon, but it seems you can build much more complex UIs with it? 🤔
> 
> I get the impression from that video that those synths were custom built within Halion?


In a lot of ways Falcon beats Halion. In terms of modulation options, oscillator types and UI. But the Halion UI builder seems to indeed exceed Falcon’s options - strictly judging by the most excellent interfaces developers like @Sample Fuel and @sonicatoms have been able to build in it.

Another really cool feature is how you can just sample audio inside of Halion. It is just extremely well done. This afternoon I have sampled my Fender Rhodes Stage mk II, just for fun. Smooth! No way (that I know of at least) would I have been able to pull that off in Falcon…


----------



## doctoremmet

Pier said:


> This is a great demo.


I like this one even better. I think it may be an actual cue he did for the Manifest TV show.


----------



## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> I might just end up getting Halion after all this


Heads-up: the “evidence” procedure for the Kontakt / Falcon crossgrade is really finicky. My request was denied after sending them clear proof of owning Falcon, still it got rejected. I then entered three requests, containing three different pictures of my iLok account, my UVI invoice (rejected) and ultimately just a pic of my actual UVI serial and that last one was apparently accepted as evidence. It also took hours. So it may be too late for the crossgrade deal, it took Steinberg two days to finally get back to me.


----------



## Kuusniemi

doctoremmet said:


> Heads-up: the “evidence” procedure for the Kontakt / Falcon crossgrade is really finicky. My request was denied after sending them clear proof of owning Falcon, still it got rejected. I then entered three requests, containing three different pictures of my iLok account, my UVI invoice (rejected) and ultimately just a pic of my actual UVI serial and that last one was apparently accepted as evidence. It also took hours. So it may be too late for the crossgrade deal, it took Steinberg two days to finally get back to me.


I sent them the receipt of Falcon from Best Service and no problem there. It did take almost 24h for them to get to it though.


----------



## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> Heads-up: the “evidence” procedure for the Kontakt / Falcon crossgrade is really finicky. My request was denied after sending them clear proof of owning Falcon, still it got rejected. I then entered three requests, containing three different pictures of my iLok account, my UVI invoice (rejected) and ultimately just a pic of my actual UVI serial and that last one was apparently accepted as evidence. It also took hours. So it may be too late for the crossgrade deal, it took Steinberg two days to finally get back to me.


No problem. I think I'm going to stick to my original plan for now. It seems like Danny's instrument work in the free version of Halion Sonic SE so I'm might try that first, get Falcon before the end of the year then if I find myself using Halion a lot get it. I tend to use Halion for drums a lot and kind of like it but never thought about expanding on it...until now.


----------



## doctoremmet

Kuusniemi said:


> I sent them the receipt of Falcon from Best Service and no problem there. It did take almost 24h for them to get to it though.


I initially downloaded my invoice directly from my UVI account which was rejected - weird haha


----------



## Kuusniemi

Bee_Abney said:


> So long as it has a reputation as a digital synth for electronic music, it will mainly be attracting people looking for greater developments in relevant areas for that kind of music (or range of kinds of music).


This is exactly what I try to battle with my work on PP, that it isn't just another EDM synth. I find it most definitely a cinematic synth, which can mop the floor with a lot of the competition. #PhasePlantRevolution.


----------



## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> Danny's instrument


Good plan. It has a ton of ridiculously useful presets for scoring. And like Halion it is on a 50% sale, for a few more hours. Over at Steinberg but directly as well.









ABOUT | website







www.samplefuel.com





^ interesting bit for @Pier as well









HYBRID BUNDLE | website







www.samplefuel.com


----------



## Kuusniemi

doctoremmet said:


> I initially downloaded my invoice directly from my UVI account which was rejected - weird haha


That is not acceptable. Either all receipts should count or none should.

Then again I do remember that I had to send a picture of my Flying Hand Percussion DVDs once as verification... :D


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Good plan. It has a ton of ridiculously useful presets for scoring. And like Halion it is on a 50% sale, for a few more hours. Over at Steinberg but directly as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABOUT | website
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.samplefuel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ interesting bit for @Pier as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HYBRID BUNDLE | website
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.samplefuel.com


Look, I came here to be talked into buying Phase Plant, not to buy two other unrelated synths. But also... They _do_ sound good...


----------



## Pier

José Herring said:


> Yes I had forgotten about that. It always sounded too weird to me though. Did you use it?


Nah... although I seem to remember discussions years ago on Gearslutz, sorry... Gearspace, where they compared those to analog synths and the resemblance was very close.


----------



## Pier

doctoremmet said:


> Good plan. It has a ton of ridiculously useful presets for scoring. And like Halion it is on a 50% sale, for a few more hours. Over at Steinberg but directly as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABOUT | website
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.samplefuel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ interesting bit for @Pier as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HYBRID BUNDLE | website
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.samplefuel.com


I found that interview in the About page super interesting.

This bit reminded me a lot of the discussion we had on that other thread:



> I find that most synth patches or sample libraries try to make too many sounds that consume too much of the sonic landscape or try to sound like “instant cues”. I can’t use sounds that are “instant cues” for several reasons…. you are going to sound exactly like someone else using that sound and you are completely restricted by having to write around that sound.


Also, from looking at their products page it's super impressive what they've achieved by customizing Halion.


----------



## Kuusniemi

Bee_Abney said:


> Look, I came here to be talked into buying Phase Plant, not to buy two other unrelated synths. But also... They _do_ sound good...


This VI-Control... What do you expect...


----------



## Kuusniemi

Bee_Abney said:


> Reading manuals is good for you. It feels so good when you finally stop!


I think the best promo video for a product was for Steven Slate Drums 5 where they actually said out loud "because reading manuals is boring".... :D


----------



## Kuusniemi

doctoremmet said:


> I did that same crossgrade. Apart from my usual gripes about Steinberg UI design (i.e. I am just not used to it yet), Halion is a beautiful thing really as long as one manages to avoid the “it is not synth X” comparison trap
> 
> Have fun with it!


Need to learn it. What I'm interested in is that the existence of the Sonic SE, which you can use for free. As a developer that is quite an incentive to learn Halion.


----------



## doctoremmet

Kuusniemi said:


> As a developer that is quite an incentive to learn Halion


Example:



By @Patryk Scelina


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> I like this one even better. I think it may be an actual cue he did for the Manifest TV show.



This video is basically a very fast moving masterclass in sound design. I was learning so much I had to stop watching. Knowledge is such a dangerous thing! (Plus, it's bedtime.)


----------



## Dirtgrain

^ Ya, I'm thinking, dang, I need to revisit that video a few times when I can think clearly.


----------



## doctoremmet

So. I have no spine. Sue me.


----------



## Pier

doctoremmet said:


> So. I have no spine. Sue me.


Are you rich or what? 😂


----------



## Pier

BTW here's a livestream from June with the KiloHearts team talking about future developments.

(I haven't watched it yet)




Edit:

At around 13:20 they say granular is almost 100% sure to be the next generator.

At around 52:20 the say LFOs will be able to go slower than 0.1Hz (even down to 0Hz).

Tons of little quality of life improvements in PhasePlant all over the video (modulation "cables", in between modules, more modulation info, etc).


----------



## doctoremmet

Pier said:


> Are you rich or what? 😂


I used to be


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> So. I have no spine. Sue me.


Spines, and skeleton's as a whole, may not have our best interests at heart:


https://mrewert.edublogs.org/files/2016/03/skeleton-13v0hv5.pdf


----------



## krops

So, ahem, Phaseplant, then. Is it worth getting even if your'e not really thinking of investing in a bunch of snap-ins?


----------



## doctoremmet

krops said:


> So, ahem, Phaseplant, then. Is it worth getting even if your'e not really thinking of investing in a bunch of snap-ins?


Check posts 53 and onwards


----------



## Bee_Abney

krops said:


> So, ahem, Phaseplant, then. Is it worth getting even if your'e not really thinking of investing in a bunch of snap-ins?


As someone who only played with it briefly, I'd still say yes. If you like its sounds and you don't find sounds you like better of that kind elsewhere (as in my case), then it is a great synth. Very versatile and powerful.

But... you won't be using it to its full potential without its effects; the same as any other synth. Just, in this case, the effects are particularly varied and multi-configurable, but it is expensive to get all of them. On the other hand, you don't need any of them, and certainly not all of them. Not having a good number (and especially Multipass, unless that is effectively built into the synth) would be shame.


----------



## Kuusniemi

Bee_Abney said:


> But... you won't be using it to its full potential without its effects; the same as any other synth. Just, in this case, the effects are particularly varied and multi-configurable, but it is expensive to get all of them. On the other hand, you don't need any of them, and certainly not all of them. Not having a good number (and especially Multipass, unless that is effectively built into the synth) would be shame.


I'd also add that if you only plan to use presets, then you do not need all the snapins. If a patch has snapins you don't have, you can still use that patch as it was designed. You just can't change the parameters of the snapins you don't have.


----------



## Kuusniemi

krops said:


> So, ahem, Phaseplant, then. Is it worth getting even if your'e not really thinking of investing in a bunch of snap-ins?


Short answer: Yes. It's a helluva synth.


----------



## krops

Radical maneuver: I'm downloading the demo, which includes all the snapins. I can see only two possible outcomes. Either I'm getting the lot or I'm dropping the whole thing.


----------



## krops

Oh, wow, wow, wow… After half an hour of playing around with this thing, I’m beginning to whittle that down to just one possible outcome…


----------



## Bee_Abney

krops said:


> Oh, wow, wow, wow… After half an hour of playing around with this thing, I’m beginning to whittle that down to just one possible outcome…


You can't hold on to anything that hot. Drop it quickly!


----------



## Kuusniemi

krops said:


> Oh, wow, wow, wow… After half an hour of playing around with this thing, I’m beginning to whittle that down to just one possible outcome…


----------



## KEM

doctoremmet said:


> I used to be



And probably tall as well, if the Dutch stereotypes are anything to go by lol


----------



## José Herring

krops said:


> Oh, wow, wow, wow… After half an hour of playing around with this thing, I’m beginning to whittle that down to just one possible outcome…


You play the same mind games I pull on myself when considering buying something new. Save yourself the mental agony. Just get the full thing, get it all you know you want it. Next month, the little extra money you spent will be washed over and not missed, but if you don't get the full thing you'll always wonder, should I have gotten it. What's your peace of mind worth to you?


----------



## Bee_Abney

José Herring said:


> You play the same mind games I pull on myself when considering buying something new. Save yourself the mental agony. Just get the full thing, get it all you know you want it. Next month, the little extra money you spent will be washed over and not missed, but if you don't get the full thing you'll always wonder, should I have gotten it. What's your peace of mind worth to you?


That's how people end up penniless and alone, living out the fag ends of their lives on a state pension that can barely buy them a tin of soup.

And also, yeah.


----------



## Bee_Abney

KEM said:


> And probably tall as well, if the Dutch stereotypes are anything to go by lol


Six foot four and full of pancakes and milk. A man to be reckoned with.


----------



## KEM

Bee_Abney said:


> Six foot four and full of pancakes and milk. A man to be reckoned with.



Doc probably doesn’t even know his height in feet and inches, he’ll use centimeters lol


----------



## José Herring

Bee_Abney said:


> That's how people end up penniless and alone, living out the fag ends of their lives on a state pension that can barely buy them a tin of soup.
> 
> And also, yeah.


Yes but he'll have Phase Plant for life.


----------



## Dirtgrain

Bee_Abney said:


> Six foot four and full of pancakes and milk. A man to be reckoned with.


Gastrointestinally, at least.


----------



## jneebz

@doctoremmet eagerly awaiting your PP initial thoughts!


----------



## doctoremmet

What’s all that? I’m 195 centimeters tall, but now excuse me while I eat my pannenkoeken!

@jneebz It is terrific.


----------



## Pier

doctoremmet said:


> but now excuse me while I eat my pannenkoeken!


I googled that up and they look exactly like the crêpes my Belgian mother used to make!


----------



## Kuusniemi

doctoremmet said:


> I’m 195 centimeters tall.


So, short for a Dutch?


----------



## jneebz

doctoremmet said:


> What’s all that? I’m 195 centimeters tall, but now excuse me while I eat my pannenkoeken!
> 
> @jneebz It is terrific.


I downloaded the demo and did some A-B’ing with Zebra and the Dune demo. There’s indeed something really special about how PP sounds. 

Dammit.


----------



## Kuusniemi

jneebz said:


> I downloaded the demo and did some A-B’ing with Zebra and the Dune demo. There’s indeed something really special about how PP sounds.
> 
> Dammit.


----------



## jneebz

Kuusniemi said:


>


Nooooooo


----------



## KEM

doctoremmet said:


> What’s all that? I’m 195 centimeters tall, but now excuse me while I eat my pannenkoeken!
> 
> @jneebz It is terrific.



I’m only 6’0


----------



## Alchemedia

Pier said:


> This is a great demo.
> 
> I thought Halion was like Falcon, but it seems you can build much more complex UIs with it? 🤔
> 
> I get the impression from that video that those synths were custom built within Halion?


Yes they were built with HALion. You may recall I mentioned if you are planning to roll your own HALion may be preferable to Falcon, however the market is extremely limited for 3rd party HALion libs.


----------



## doctoremmet

So, today I spent a lot of time with PhasePlant. I decided to immediately cancel my subscription…






Instead…. I went ALL-IN. Toolbox Ultimate deep.


----------



## doctoremmet

I have hours and hours of material. And it all sucks but boy did I have fun making it


----------



## Pier

doctoremmet said:


> So, today I spent a lot of time with PhasePlant. I decided to immediately cancel my subscription…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Instead…. I went ALL-IN. Toolbox Ultimate deep.


----------



## sostenuto

Good to see PP continuing to impress. OTH .... so many paths, projects, genres, for so many Users. 
Will watch with interest to see how all evolves given lengthy, impressive history for Omni, Zebra, et al. 
Lesser synth chops than many here, and quite hesitant to sign into major learning commitment until PP (or any newer softsynth) achieves comparable prominence. 🤷🏻


----------



## Pier

sostenuto said:


> Lesser synth chops than many here, and quite hesitant to sign into major learning commitment until PP (or any newer softsynth) achieves comparable prominence. 🤷🏻


PhasePlant is super easy to use.

Of course your patches can get as complex as you can imagine, but it's brilliantly designed to work on a single screen 99% of the time.

What I'm saying is, I doubt it's going to be a "major learning commitment".


----------



## sostenuto

Pier said:


> PhasePlant is super easy to use.
> 
> Of course your patches can get as complex as you can imagine, but it's brilliantly designed to work on a single screen 99% of the time.
> 
> What I'm saying is, I doubt it's going to be a "major learning commitment".


Good to see this added point to my concern. Staying open-minded, while split between digging deeper in Omni v 2.8 _ and trying to track UNIFY flood of enhancements. 
THX


----------



## Alchemedia

doctoremmet said:


> I have hours and hours of material. And it all sucks but boy did I have fun making it


"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." 😎


----------



## Inventio

doctoremmet said:


> What’s all that? I’m 195 centimeters tall, but now excuse me while I eat my pannenkoeken!
> 
> @jneebz It is terrific.


Pannekoeken are a whole culture, like analog or wavetable synths.  I first tried them in 1997, staying at friends' near Boxmeer, Brabant.
The memory of those flavors (appelstroop particularly) hit me now with the same Proustian nostalgia that I get when I think about the 90's hardware synths and modules I could not afford then! Although I could afford pannekoeken 

But you all made me want to try Phaseplant now. 😈


----------



## GregSilver

Inventio said:


> Pannekoeken are a whole culture, like analog or wavetable synths.  I first tried them in 1997, staying at friends' near Boxmeer, Brabant.
> The memory of those flavors (appelstroop particularly) hit me now with the same Proustian nostalgia that I get when I think about the 90's hardware synths and modules I could not afford then! Although I could afford pannekoeken
> 
> But you all made me want to try Phaseplant now. 😈


Time for some Phasekoeken! 😀


----------



## grabauf

GregSilver said:


> Time for some Phasekoeken! 😀


...or PannenPlant?


----------



## doctoremmet

GregSilver said:


> Time for some Phasekoeken! 😀


This sounds like feestkoeken (pronounced Dutch). Feest means party (one can recognize the word “feast” in there I suppose). Also, it sounds like space-koeken, which in a way are also feestkoeken.


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> This sounds like feestkoeken (pronounced Dutch). Feest means party (one can recognize the word “feast” in there I suppose). Also, it sounds like space-koeken, which in a way are also feestkoeken.


While reading anything in '_the Dutch language_' usually fills me with fear, I am right now feeling anything but full! You are all making me very hungry!


----------



## doctoremmet

grabauf said:


> PannenPlant


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


>


And the terror is back! 

Thanks?


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> And the terror is back!
> 
> Thanks?


You’re welcome. Even these 808 lovin’ hiphop legends know where it’s at…

1 minute time mark…


----------



## doctoremmet

doctoremmet said:


>


Am I alone in sort of hoping Simon Stockhausen all of a sudden pops into this picture with a huge mic, doing field recordings for his latest soundset?


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> Am I alone in sort of hoping Simon Stockhausen all of a sudden pops into this picture with a huge mic, doing field recordings for his latest soundset?


He's the hero we need right now...


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


>


Eat, drink and be marinaded, for tomorrow we fry!


----------



## doctoremmet

Bee_Abney said:


> Eat, drink and be marinaded, for tomorrow we fry!


It is fryday after all.


----------



## GregSilver

Okay, now it gets confusing


----------



## Inventio

doctoremmet said:


> This sounds like feestkoeken (pronounced Dutch). Feest means party (one can recognize the word “feast” in there I suppose). Also, it sounds like space-koeken, which in a way are also feestkoeken.


I expect "space-koeken" to be full of delays and reverbs with long modulated tails and maybe something more...


----------



## jneebz

Welp, couldn't resist any longer. After demo'ing Phaseplant, Dune, VPS Avenger, I'm the proud owner of the Phaseplant Pro Toolbox. Bought it at Sweetwater so I can pay over time and haven't got my license code yet....likely delay due to the holiday. Looking forward to exploring and creating sounds with it. It just sounds so freakin good....can't wait. Thanks for all the helpful info in this thread!


----------



## Crowe

I feel a need to make a topic about how offended I am that my culture has been reduced to tallness and pannenkoeken.

We are first, and foremost, potheads. Also we have The Golden Earring. And Bicycles.

But yeah. Phase Plant is awesome. It says something about my deep-rooted issues that I'm still looking around for other synths even though I don't think I'm going to need any others.


----------



## sostenuto

Crowe said:


> I feel a need to make a topic about how offended I am that my culture has been reduced to tallness and pannenkoeken.
> 
> We are first, and foremost, potheads. Also we have The Golden Earring. And Bicycles.
> 
> But yeah. Phase Plant is awesome. It says something about my deep-rooted issues that I'm still looking around for other synths even though I don't think I'm going to need any others.


Few Tats , as well !


----------



## Bee_Abney

Crowe said:


> I feel a need to make a topic about how offended I am that my culture has been reduced to tallness and pannenkoeken.
> 
> We are first, and foremost, potheads. Also we have The Golden Earring. And Bicycles.
> 
> But yeah. Phase Plant is awesome. It says something about my deep-rooted issues that I'm still looking around for other synths even though I don't think I'm going to need any others.


If it helps, I am happy to start circulating alternative stereotypes. Something about being the sex workers of Western Europe, perhaps?


----------



## D Halgren

Bee_Abney said:


> If it helps, I am happy to start circulating alternative stereotypes. Something about being the sex workers of Western Europe, perhaps?


Most of those ladies seem to come from Eastern Europe 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Bee_Abney

D Halgren said:


> Most of those ladies seem to come from Eastern Europe 🤷‍♂️


Ladies? Wait; there are female prostitutes too?!


----------



## D Halgren

Bee_Abney said:


> Ladies? Wait; there are female prostitutes too?!


That's what I heard 😊


----------



## Crowe

sostenuto said:


> Few Tats , as well !


Not in my vicinity, I find there's many!


----------



## Pier

I'm starting to work on a PhasePlant library and wondering what do you think about this.

PhasePlant doesn't have an arpeggiator but I want to include presets that can be used with an arpeggiator from the DAW or a midi controller (eg: Arturia Keystep).

Would it be very confusing to name a patch something like "ARP Hacking the server" but without it really playing an arpeggio?

Or would it make more sense to call it something like "PLUCK Hacking the server" and then explain in the description "works great with an arpeggiator!"?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> I'm starting to work on a PhasePlant library and wondering what do you think about this.
> 
> PhasePlant doesn't have an arpeggiator but I want to include presets that can be used with an arpeggiator from the DAW or a midi controller (eg: Arturia Keystep).
> 
> Would it be very confusing to name a patch something like "ARP Hacking the server" but without it really playing an arpeggio?
> 
> Or would it make more sense to call it something like "PLUCK Hacking the server" and then explain in the description "works great with an arpeggiator!"?


The latter would cause people less confusion, particularly if they are looking at presets months and years after buying them.

But you might consider including midi files of the arp pattern. It depends on the market, but there are those who would prefer WAV files overall, and definitely midi or Cthulhu settings over doing their own sequencing.


----------



## KEM

Pier said:


> I'm starting to work on a PhasePlant library and wondering what do you think about this.
> 
> PhasePlant doesn't have an arpeggiator but I want to include presets that can be used with an arpeggiator from the DAW or a midi controller (eg: Arturia Keystep).
> 
> Would it be very confusing to name a patch something like "ARP Hacking the server" but without it really playing an arpeggio?
> 
> Or would it make more sense to call it something like "PLUCK Hacking the server" and then explain in the description "works great with an arpeggiator!"?



I’d say the second option would be better


----------



## jneebz

Do you think PP will ever have an arpeggiator?


----------



## Seymour Caiman

Pier said:


> I'm starting to work on a PhasePlant library and wondering what do you think about this.
> 
> PhasePlant doesn't have an arpeggiator but I want to include presets that can be used with an arpeggiator from the DAW or a midi controller (eg: Arturia Keystep).
> 
> Would it be very confusing to name a patch something like "ARP Hacking the server" but without it really playing an arpeggio?
> 
> Or would it make more sense to call it something like "PLUCK Hacking the server" and then explain in the description "works great with an arpeggiator!"?


Option 2


----------



## Pier

jneebz said:


> Do you think PP will ever have an arpeggiator?


Yeah, definitely, but who knows when.


----------



## Pier

liquidlino said:


> You might include BlueArp patterns perhaps? (BlueArp is a cool free arp)


People do use these external plugins for this?

AFAIK all major DAWs already include an arpeggiator (Cubase, Logic, Live, Studio One, Bitwig, etc).


----------



## Pier

liquidlino said:


> Plus, BlueArp would not be daw dependant.


OTOH distributing sequences with it would be BlueArp dependant which would force people to install it.

If I was going to distribute arps and sequences separately from the presets, I think I'd rather do it with agnostic midi files that can be drag and dropped anywhere.


----------



## Bee_Abney

liquidlino said:


> Plus, BlueArp would not be daw dependant.


But is it widely used? It could be better to go with an option that is independent of any particular arp. Such as midi. Of course, multiple options really helps. 

Again, it depends on the market for the knid of sounds used.


----------



## Pier

liquidlino said:


> I wonder. Given pp doesn't have an arp, does that mean the demographic of pp users don't want, expect or use an arp or midi sequences?


I doubt it. I've seen people on Twitter and other places asking for it.

I think it's just that KiloHearts is a really small company so they've been limited to the features they've been able to work on. For the first years I think they were only two guys but have been expanding the team lately.


----------



## Crowe

Pier said:


> I'm starting to work on a PhasePlant library and wondering what do you think about this.
> 
> PhasePlant doesn't have an arpeggiator but I want to include presets that can be used with an arpeggiator from the DAW or a midi controller (eg: Arturia Keystep).
> 
> Would it be very confusing to name a patch something like "ARP Hacking the server" but without it really playing an arpeggio?
> 
> Or would it make more sense to call it something like "PLUCK Hacking the server" and then explain in the description "works great with an arpeggiator!"?


Considering Phase Plant does not have an arpeggiator, it wouldn't be confusing at all. In fact, I've seen quite a few presets for synths that do not come with an arpeggiator being prefaced with 'Arp'.

I'm going to advocate for not calling it 'Pluck' as an arpeggiator patch doesn't necessarily have to be a pluck. And not all plucks sound nice arpeggiated.

The manual (or sales blurb) can still specify that your ARP patches are specifically made for use with an arpeggiator. If someone expects a preset to magically give a synth something it doesn't feature, I'd say that's a little foolish.

Who really uses the default Arpeggios in Arp patches anyway?


----------



## Bee_Abney

I believe it has been the case that EDM adjacent composers have also been using third party sequencers. 

Serum and similar synths have many third-party soundsets with Cthulhu sequences included. I actually have Cthulhu, as I thought it would help with a project I was working on for some friends. 

I found re-learning to play a keyboard much easier than faster than learning to use such tools at the time.


----------



## sostenuto

Pier said:


> People do use these external plugins for this?
> 
> AFAIK all major DAWs already include an arpeggiator (Cubase, Logic, Live, Studio One, Bitwig, etc).


fwiw __ increasingly popular Pluginguru - UNIFY includes BlueARP as a versatile, effective arpeggiator.


----------



## KEM

For what it’s worth I’ve never once used an arp plugin, if it’s not built into the synth then I just draw in my own midi


----------



## sostenuto

KEM said:


> For what it’s worth I’ve never once used an arp plugin, if it’s not built into the synth then I just draw in my own midi


OK Rembrandt ! ..... easy for you to say /do. 😂


----------



## Zero&One

Crowe said:


> But yeah. Phase Plant is awesome. It says something about my deep-rooted issues that I'm still looking around for other synths even though I don't think I'm going to need any others.


I've bought this, a Polybrute and an OB-6 this year... and I'm still looking at synths


----------



## Bee_Abney

Zero&One said:


> I've bought this, a Polybrute and an OB-6 this year... and I'm still looking at synths


When you find your own personal brand of heroin (to quote a sparkly vampire) resistance, as the Borg say, is futile!


----------



## doctoremmet

liquidlino said:


> I believe the Dutch are renowned for having a "schmoke and a pancackhe"


----------



## sostenuto

Darn tasty _ actually prefer spek in wafel 🧇 ____ but comnig from a Pigments 3.5 dude. 🙆🏻


----------



## jneebz

Welp. To bring my New-Synth-Journey-Of-Ambivalence full circle, I've decided to SELL PhasePlant. Some new developments for 2022 will steal more of my time and I know I won't be able to dive into PP with the fervor I anticipated. I haven't listed it yet because I wanted to see if there were any of you kind folk here who have helped me along the way who may be interested. If so, PM me for details. It's PP+Professional FX Bundle and I'm selling for less than BF price (hope I'm not breaking Forum rules...if so please let me know and I'll edit).


----------



## GregSilver

Ha! I know that @grabauf is getting shaky fingers now.... 😀


----------



## grabauf

GregSilver said:


> Ha! I know that @grabauf is getting shaky fingers now.... 😀




You know me to well. 
Was already about to write a PM...


----------



## GregSilver

Do it!


----------



## Bee_Abney

All the cool kids are doing it. I mean, if you wanted to be cool...


----------



## grabauf

Cool and broke.


----------



## grabauf

A new deal:








Phase Plant VST - Turbo Boosted By Kilohearts- Audio Plugin Deals


For just $99.99 (instead of $256), get Phase Plant + 3 Banks by Kilohearts. Banks included: Impossible, New London and Tremor




audioplugin.deals


----------



## sostenuto

grabauf said:


> A new deal:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phase Plant VST - Turbo Boosted By Kilohearts- Audio Plugin Deals
> 
> 
> For just $99.99 (instead of $256), get Phase Plant + 3 Banks by Kilohearts. Banks included: Impossible, New London and Tremor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> audioplugin.deals


Forgetful ! _ seems Phaseplant recent deals were also $99. for basic pkg. Are these xtra _Banks_ the current incentive ??


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Forgetful ! _ seems Phaseplant recent deals were also $99. for basic pkg. Are these xtra _Banks_ the current incentive ??


Yes, I should think so. If you are a subscriber, you have access to all of their banks, otherwise they sell for Euro 29 each. So three looks like quite the bargain - that's money off for the sound banks alone at $99.

The nice thing is that using presets by others, you have full access to all of the snapin effects - full except that you can't edit them. But buying at this price and then gradually building up your snapin collection as they go on sale isn't a bad idea.

It's not for me this time, though. Eventually.


----------



## sostenuto

THX ! Regular APD customer, and this PP deal + Tetrality are beckoning.
Also ... $9.99 /month for everything Kilo Hearts, remains attractive.

Gotta hold back pesos for Ethera Gold _ ATLANTIS ...... coming soon !


----------



## Pier

grabauf said:


> A new deal:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phase Plant VST - Turbo Boosted By Kilohearts- Audio Plugin Deals
> 
> 
> For just $99.99 (instead of $256), get Phase Plant + 3 Banks by Kilohearts. Banks included: Impossible, New London and Tremor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> audioplugin.deals


Honestly, it's not that good of a deal.

I mean, $99 is better than getting the base version of PhasePlant for $169, but you'd be missing all the effects. The base version only includes:

- 3-Band EQ
- Chorus
- Delay
- Gain, Limiter
- Stereo

(which are already free to get anyway by creating a KiloHearts account)

The included banks are typically sold for $30 each, but they are quite overpriced IMO as they only include 50 presets each (assuming you like the presets).


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Honestly, it's not that good of a deal.
> 
> I mean, $99 is better than getting the base version of PhasePlant for $169, but you'd be missing all the effects. The base version only includes:
> 
> - 3-Band EQ
> - Chorus
> - Delay
> - Gain, Limiter
> - Stereo
> 
> (which are already free to get anyway by creating a KiloHearts account)
> 
> The included banks are typically sold for $30 each, but they are quite overpriced IMO as they only include 50 presets each (assuming you like the presets).



Oh, so the Euro 29 would have included tax.

Anyway, it's probably not the best deal you are likely to see between now and November.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet

The day that Phase Plant inevitably landed on the keys of @Simeon ‘s SL88 Grand


----------



## sostenuto

Preset Playthrough provided timely, thorough PP help. Much appreciated ! 👏🏻


----------



## Bee_Abney

I don't know how long it will be there, but Phaseplant is on Knobcloud right now for $90 or $130 including the starter toolbox effects.


----------



## Fidelity

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't know how long it will be there, but Phaseplant is on Knobcloud right now for $90 or $130 including the starter toolbox effects.


Definitely recommend getting at least the starter toolbox if not a larger pack. You'll end up buying the effects little by little if you want to make your own patches and you'll end up spending more even with vouchers and sales.

Speaking of which, Andrew Huang did an advertorial on the basics of the patch creation process and went through some of the presets (this is what actually sold me on phaseplant) -


----------



## sostenuto

Fidelity said:


> Definitely ********************
> 
> Speaking of which, Andrew Huang did an advertorial on the basics of the patch creation process and went through some of the presets (this is what actually sold me on phaseplant) -




aarrgghh >>>> got me 🏹


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> aarrgghh >>>> got me 🏹



Whereas I've been checking out Icarus 2...


----------



## Bee_Abney

liquidlino said:


> And why wouldn't you when _*"Icarus2 is the most powerful synthesizer available on the market."*_ and it has _*"innovative '3D wavetable synthesis', which is exclusive to Icarus"*_ (every WT wynth I have has 3D wavetable, am I missing something?) and _*"the most advanced wavetable-editor available"*_
> 
> That's some serious hyperbole to live up to.



Yeah, that sort of sums up my response. The resynthesis looks interesting, but I don't know if Rapid could be better at that. But the hyperbole does set the user up for disappointment. I could download the trial, of course.


----------



## Fidelity

Bee_Abney said:


> Yeah, that sort of sums up my response. The resynthesis looks interesting, but I don't know if Rapid could be better at that. But the hyperbole does set the user up for disappointment. I could download the trial, of course.


You know which other synth has a trial? Phaseplant. I dare you. Wallet misery loves company.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Fidelity said:


> You know which other synth has a trial? Phaseplant. I dare you. Wallet misery loves company.



Well, that would keep me out of mischief for a bit...


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> Well, that would keep me out of mischief for a bit...


' ...... a bit ' _ meaning < 1 sec. ?


----------



## Wes Mayhall

Bee_Abney said:


> Well, that would keep me out of mischief for a bit...


Feel free to report your findings. To paraphrase Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park, "I'm always on the lookout for the next VST to use up my time."


----------



## Pier

Fidelity said:


> Wallet misery loves company.


I mean... who can't afford $10 a month?


----------



## Pier

Honestly, the fact that you can pay only for the months you use it is awesome.

My usage typical usage pattern with a synth is I only use it for a couple of months per year.



liquidlino said:


> I wish more Devs would follow plugin alliance model of gradually enabling buyout of what you actually use.


Yeah KiloHearts has that. You get back $100 per year.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## grabauf

doctoremmet said:


>



Impressive!


----------



## richmwhitfield




----------



## Pier

It's a video from 2020 and I typically don't like his videos... but this is a great introduction to PhasePlant.


----------



## Pier




----------



## sostenuto

Win11 Pro here 🤷🏻 _ suggest Kilohearts have massive celebration now with staggering, 'best ever' PhasePlant promotion !! May be final straw for purchase. _ Rental _ I kno, I kno. _


----------



## rollasoc

sostenuto said:


> Win11 Pro here 🤷🏻 _ suggest Kilohearts have massive celebration now with staggering, 'best ever' PhasePlant promotion !! May be final straw for purchase. _ Rental _ I kno, I kno. _


PhasePlant 2.0 will be out hopefully soon, they have been working on it for long enough!


----------



## Pier

rollasoc said:


> PhasePlant 2.0 will be out hopefully soon, they have been working on it for long enough!


I think it's more of a v2 of all their ecosystem.

AFAIK PhasePlant itself won't get too many new features. There was a video where they showed the v2 of PhasePlant in a live stream.

I think I posted it earlier in this thread but here it is again. It's very long though...


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> I think it's more of a v2 of all their ecosystem.
> 
> AFAIK PhasePlant itself won't get too many new features. There was a video where they showed the v2 of PhasePlant in a live stream.
> 
> I think I posted it earlier in this thread but here it is again. It's very long though...



Hi Pier. I've forgotten if you said, but are you working on a soundest for PhasePlant? Or was it something else. You really know how to design usable sounds, so I'd love to hear more even if it is for a synth I don't have - yet.


----------



## sostenuto

SoftSynths heating up ! PhasePlant 2, Plasmonic, Falcon -30% + 2 exp, !! 
GASEOUS ⛽


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> Hi Pier. I've forgotten if you said, but are you working on a soundest for PhasePlant? Or was it something else. You really know how to design usable sounds, so I'd love to hear more even if it is for a synth I don't have - yet.


Thanks Bee! 🙏

I'm finishing up a couple of things with Zebra 2 and will probably release something for PhasePlant later this year.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> Thanks Bee! 🙏
> 
> I'm finishing up a couple of things with Zebra 2 and will probably release something for PhasePlant later this year.



Great. I look forward to hearing them.


----------



## Seymour Caiman

Granular please....


----------



## Bee_Abney

Seymour Caiman said:


> Granular please....


Grains are for chickens.

(And exciting sound design!)


----------



## Pier

Seymour Caiman said:


> Granular please....


Until it comes, you can already do a sort of a fake granular:


----------



## Seymour Caiman

Pier said:


> Until it comes, you can already do a sort of a fake granular:



Yes this a good half-way house for now.


----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## doctoremmet




----------



## Pier

Sneak preview of V2



Check the LFO tables in the new modulation options!


----------



## doctoremmet

God I love this synth


----------



## Pier

doctoremmet said:


> God I love this synth


It's really amazing!

I'm finishing something with Zebra and I'm super excited to start working on a library for PhasePlant and get serious with it.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> It's really amazing!
> 
> I'm finishing something with Zebra and I'm super excited to start working on a library for PhasePlant and get serious with it.



I'm still on the fence, amazingly! But I'm glad other people are enjoying it so much.


----------



## grabauf

Pier said:


> It's really amazing!
> 
> I'm finishing something with Zebra and I'm super excited to start working on a library for PhasePlant and get serious with it.


Sounds great. Can't wait to hear your presets.


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm still on the fence, amazingly! But I'm glad other people are enjoying it so much.


No startling 'deals' yet _ so maybe cave and try subscription ?? 
Little to lose _ assuming likely value for $100. credit at 12 months.


----------



## Pier

sostenuto said:


> No startling 'deals' yet _ so maybe cave and try subscription ??
> Little to lose _ assuming likely value for $100. credit at 12 months.


Yeah and for just $10 (one month of the subscription) one can try *everything* KiloHearts has to offer.


----------



## Kuusniemi

Pier said:


> I think it's more of a v2 of all their ecosystem.
> 
> AFAIK PhasePlant itself won't get too many new features. There was a video where they showed the v2 of PhasePlant in a live stream.
> 
> I think I posted it earlier in this thread but here it is again. It's very long though...



V2 is quite nice. wink wink nudge nudge. :D


----------



## tressie5

Many many moons hence, somewhere in the early 80's, I went to see Paul Stanley of KISS at The Ritz in NY. (Talk about loud!) Before he came on, they were playing this abrasive brand of metal I'd never heard before. Being a punk rocker, I was already used to hard stuff like Plasmatics, The Exploited, Oi, Iron Maiden, Black Flag, etc. This new metal, though, sounded like the guitarist was using a razor blade across his strings. And some people around me were into it! I started thinking, "How is this popular? Is it going to catch on?" Lo and behold, it did. It was Metallica in all their first album, in your face, take no prisoners glory. Fast forward to today and we call this Phaseplant, the beast you love to tame.


----------



## Pier

Here's another one. It's just ridiculous 😂


----------



## Pier

BTW KiloHearts are at SuperBooth in Berlin showcasing V2.

Would love to go in person. It's a bit far away from Mexico though 😂

Hopefully someone will make a video.


----------



## sostenuto

Hoping KiloHearts will do PP promo with V2 release. That will be opportunity waited for. 👍🏻


----------



## KEM

Pier said:


> BTW KiloHearts are at SuperBooth in Berlin showcasing V2.
> 
> Would love to go in person. It's a bit far away from Mexico though 😂
> 
> Hopefully someone will make a video.



Maybe when v2 comes out I’ll buy it


----------



## Dirtgrain

V2 is coming out 5/17, yes?


----------



## sostenuto

??? Good news. Now to get past Friday 13th ! 👻


----------



## Pier

Dirtgrain said:


> V2 is coming out 5/17, yes?


Yes?


----------



## Kuusniemi

There are some really nice things in v2.  Turning my favorite synth into an even bigger favorite.


----------



## Dirtgrain

I got an email from them (5/19, not 5/17--my mistake): 


> Press Release: Kilohearts Updates the Entire Kilohearts Ecosystem to v2
> 
> UNDER EMBARGO until 2pm CET May 19th, 2022.



Link to PDF from email.

"Under embargo" is a weird way to put it--maybe they mean something else?


----------



## gamma-ut

Embargo on a press release means not publishing it on a news site or, um, a forum, before the lift date/time - ie 2pm CET 19th May.


----------



## Technostica

KEM said:


> Maybe when v2 comes out I’ll buy it


No need to if you have V1 as it's a free update for current owners.


----------



## Pier

Kuusniemi said:


> There are some really nice things in v2.  Turning my favorite synth into an even bigger favorite.


Come on! Stop teasing us! 😂


----------



## Kuusniemi

Pier said:


> Come on! Stop teasing us! 😂


Well, I was asked not to divulge too many details... :D But some of the stuff is pretty crazy.

Edit: Decided to remove what I wrote and let people read that PDF since it was shared here.


----------



## Dirtgrain

gamma-ut said:


> Embargo on a press release means not publishing it on a news site or, um, a forum, before the lift date/time - ie 2pm CET 19th May.


Oops--sorry to Kilohearts for that (no idea how I'd be in the loop, though).


----------



## gamma-ut

It's a bit silly of them:

a) to send an embargoed press release to you if you're not a journalist or blogger, and

b) not check whether you'd agree to the embargo before sending it.

Companies do send out unsolicited embargoed releases but it's generally on the understanding that it's more of a risk (not least because the recipient might not even look at the date on it) and that if they do run it ahead of the lift date, they won't get sent any more under embargo for a long while.


----------



## grabauf

Kilohearts v2 is Here


We are extremely excited to finally announce that the Kilohearts v2 Update is now available for all users for FREE!




kilohearts.com


----------



## Kuusniemi

So the v2 is out (with an offer on Phase Plant at Kilohearts https://kilohearts.com/blog/kilohearts-v2-is-here) so this is my experience.

Addition of a Midi CC modulator is something that I sorely missed and am thrilled it is there now. 

The LFO Table is crazy as hell. Imagine modulating your wavetable (or anything else) with another wavetable.

The GUI improvements are excellent and make everything even clearer and easier to comprehend.

LFO speeds go all the way down to zero.

Like I said there before (I edited the reply) v2 of PP (and Multipass and Snap Heap) have made this an even bigger favorite of a synth for me.


----------



## KEM

$100? Alright, I’m in


----------



## Kuusniemi

KEM said:


> $100? Alright, I’m in


Remember to keep an eye out for upgrade offers to the snapin bundles.


----------



## KEM

Kuusniemi said:


> Remember to keep an eye out for upgrade offers to the snapin bundles.


 
Do I get them if I have the Slate bundle?


----------



## Crowe

The new modulation and input-tracking options are pretty crazy and I'm looking forward to using them.

I won't deny I'm slightly disappointed by the lack of a new Phaseplant Oscillator though. Can't win them all I guess.


----------



## Wes Mayhall

Reeeealy disappointed at the lack of new games. Would Tempest be too much to ask?!?


----------



## Kuusniemi

KEM said:


> Do I get them if I have the Slate bundle?


I think so.


----------



## richmwhitfield

Wes Mayhall said:


> Reeeealy disappointed at the lack of new games. Would Tempest be too much to ask?!?


Haven't you checked Snap Heap?


----------



## Bee_Abney

KEM said:


> $100? Alright, I’m in



I'm tempted myself, but from trialling it, I think you'll really like it.


----------



## richmwhitfield

The Curve output module makes pulses so much easier/better!

EDIT - ignore the above. Needs more investigation as it doesn't re-trigger the filter. There may be another way to do that.


----------



## richmwhitfield

And for anyone that wants some extra Phase Plant presets - 

That's an incomplete (can't use the word unfinished for obvious reasons!) bank of around 130 presets. Aimed at the heavier side of cyberpunk.


----------



## Pier

KEM said:


> $100? Alright, I’m in


Just be aware that PhasePlant by itself won't get you all the KH effects, effects hosts, EQs, etc.

KH added a ton of effects to the free fx bundle, which is awesome and all those can be loaded into PP.

Edit:

Like I've said before, if you like PhasePlant, I think the subscription is really the way to go with KH. You get to try everything they have and every year you get $100 back to spend on their store and own the stuff you really like.


----------



## Pier

Crowe said:


> The new modulation and input-tracking options are pretty crazy and I'm looking forward to using them.
> 
> I won't deny I'm slightly disappointed by the lack of a new Phaseplant Oscillator though. Can't win them all I guess.


I agree. I'm really happy with the new features but I was hoping to see something extra in the generators department too.

This must have been quite a monumental task as it involved updating the code of all their big products. I hope this means we will start seeing new PhasePlant specific features soon!


----------



## monochrome

so every single effect plugin is free now!? besides the 5 they let you buy?

that's kinda the biggest thing for me since i just started my subscription a few days ago. the ultimate bundle with all fx would have costed me several extra years of vouchers or hundreds of dollars to get

unless i'm misunderstanding but that's dope!


----------



## Marko Cifer

monochrome said:


> so every single effect plugin is free now!? besides the 5 they let you buy?
> 
> that's kinda the biggest thing for me since i just started my subscription a few days ago. the ultimate bundle with all fx would have costed me several extra years of vouchers or hundreds of dollars to get
> 
> unless i'm misunderstanding but that's dope!


Yep, correct.

This is why, to everyone reading: even if you're not going to pick up Phase Plant yet, *make sure to at least grab Snap Heap while it's still free*.

More on the pricing changes: https://kilohearts.com/pricing_update


----------



## Pier

Marko Cifer said:


> Yep, correct.
> 
> This is why, to everyone reading: even if you're not going to pick up Phase Plant yet, *make sure to at least grab Snap Heap while it's still free*.
> 
> More on the pricing changes: https://kilohearts.com/pricing_update


I have to admit this makes buying PhasePlant much more attractive compared to getting into the subscription. The free effects and SnapHeap are already way ahead of what most synths offer.

Still, the subscription includes Multipass, the convolution effect, faturator, two full blown EQs that can be used inside PhasePlant or as regular plugins, and Disperser. And it's not "subscribe to rent" but "subscribe to own".


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> I have to admit this makes buying PhasePlant much more attractive compared to getting into the subscription. The free effects and SnapHeap are already way ahead of what most synths offer.
> 
> Still, the subscription includes Multipass, the convolution effect, faturator, two full blown EQs that can be used inside PhasePlant or as regular plugins, and Disperser. And it's not "subscribe to rent" but "subscribe to own".


Take someone to whom computers are akin to the internal organs of an inorganic alien entity, as studied by a particularly inattentive schoolgirl. Would you think that such a person might find Phaseplant a bit much to take on? I - I mean, she, the hypothetical person - doesn't have a lot of time to study a new synth for several months yet.


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> Take someone to whom computers are akin to the internal organs of an inorganic alien entity, as studied by a particularly inattentive schoolgirl. Would you think that such a person might find Phaseplant a bit much to take on? I - I mean, she, the hypothetical person - doesn't have a lot of time to study a new synth for several months yet.


As powerful as it is, PhasePlant is probably one of the easiest synths in the market. Single screen, all drag and drop, everything is visualized and animated (waveforms, modulations, etc).

If you use Falcon, PhasePlant will probably be a walk in the park 

Of course there are advanced tricks that you learn over time but in truth the biggest limitation will be your sound design and synthesis knowledge, not PhasePlant itself.

I don't know if they have a demo... If not you could spend $10 on a single subscription month to try everything out.

This is a really good introduction:


----------



## Marko Cifer

Bee_Abney said:


> Take someone to whom computers are akin to the internal organs of an inorganic alien entity, as studied by a particularly inattentive schoolgirl. Would you think that such a person might find Phaseplant a bit much to take on? I - I mean, she, the hypothetical person - doesn't have a lot of time to study a new synth for several months yet.


In terms of complexity? It can be incredibly daunting due to the insane capabilities of this Alien Space Ship of a synth as I like to call it, yet very rewarding and enabling.

Having said that, at least to me, it's weirdly intuitive, and once you grasp its "language", relatively easy to use. The complexity is there, yes, and requires time to fully grasp (it'll take me a ton of time to get there, if I ever will), but the workflow just sort of... clicks for me? They really thought out things and it's pretty straight-forward to get it up and running for at least the basic stuff.

So if it helps, this hypothetical person who is in no way shape or form you, could probably start using it very quickly and probably get lovely results, but would need time to really learn it more deeply.

Honestly? Demo it. If it clicks, get it. If not, or if this hypothetical person who is in no way shape or form you has particular go-to synths already which might need some more occasional love in terms of learning them, maybe focus elsewhere at least for now - until this person has more time.

Or that person could just grab it, smash the modules together, modulateception them and laugh like a maniac. Then properly learn it when this hypothetical person who is in no way shape or form you has the time to do so.



Pier said:


> I don't know if they have a demo...


It does, or at least it did when I tried it before purchasing. Wasn't that long ago for me - last Black Friday I think?


----------



## Bee_Abney

I'll tell her to check for a demo, thankyou both.

PIER:'the biggest limitation will be your sound design and synthesis knowledge'

If it were me, this would definitely be true!!


----------



## Pier

Marko Cifer said:


> Having said that, at least to me, it's weirdly intuitive, and once you grasp its "language", relatively easy to use. The complexity is there, yes, and requires time to fully grasp (it'll take me a ton of time to get there, if I ever will), but the workflow just sort of... clicks for me? They really thought out things and it's pretty straight-forward to get it up and running for at least the basic stuff.


Honestly I'd be very surprised if anyone with even basic synth knowledge would have any difficulty using PhasePlant. The UX and workflow are just fantastic and like you said surprisingly intuitive.

Of course if you don't know what modulation, a filter, or a reverb are then that is another story.


----------



## Crowe

I think the most difficult things to really grasp are the pathways, which enable you to explore a huge amount of routing options.

On the other hand, it's not *that* complicated and you can build exceedingly simple synths this way.


----------



## sostenuto

Pier said:


> I have to admit this makes buying PhasePlant much more attractive compared to getting into the subscription. The free effects and SnapHeap are already way ahead of what most synths offer.
> 
> Still, the subscription includes Multipass, the convolution effect, faturator, two full blown EQs that can be used inside PhasePlant or as regular plugins, and Disperser. And it's not "subscribe to rent" but "subscribe to own".


Get all Soundbanks and Updates with Subscription _ right ?? With $100. back later, this must be best initial PhasePlant entry choice. 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Get all Soundbanks and Updates with Subscription _ right ?? With $100. back later, this must be best initial PhasePlant entry choice. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Well, the subscription deal is the same as before - just with the new updates. And I'm pretty sure that Phaseplant on its own has been $99 before.

But, the advantage now is that there are more free effect snapping. So now, if you just buy Phaseplant, you'll have more effects than you would have done before. So, in this way, buy it outright has now become a better idea than it was before.

But subscribing will get you everything for the monthly fee, plus a $100 voucher after a year (for use on non-sale prices only).

The thing is, if you've been holding on for the best deal, we are probably there right now. But if you go with the subscription, the price remains unchanged from what it has always been.


----------



## KEM

Pier said:


> Just be aware that PhasePlant by itself won't get you all the KH effects, effects hosts, EQs, etc.
> 
> KH added a ton of effects to the free fx bundle, which is awesome and all those can be loaded into PP.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Like I've said before, if you like PhasePlant, I think the subscription is really the way to go with KH. You get to try everything they have and every year you get $100 back to spend on their store and own the stuff you really like.



I already have the Slate bundle so Phase Plant is the only thing I don’t have yet


----------



## Pier

sostenuto said:


> Get all Soundbanks and Updates with Subscription _ right ?? With $100. back later, this must be best initial PhasePlant entry choice. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Yeah but maybe check out some demos of the banks.









Kilohearts Content Banks


Find inspiration and learn new techniques, with Kilohearts Content Banks.




kilohearts.com





When I quickly skimmed the banks I didn't like 80% of what I heard. I think the one I liked the most was Suspension by @emptyvessel 









Kilohearts | Suspension


Hold on, wait, and soon you'll see. By emptyvessel




kilohearts.com


----------



## spektralisk

I've been playing with trial for couple of days. So much fun. I grabbed it immediately when saw a release of v2 and the sale price.

It's unbelievable how fluid this thing is to work with. Powerful with superb interface. Love it.


----------



## Crowe

Gonna second the whole presets thing. You shouldn't be getting Phaseplant as a preset-player. I'm not sure why it seems to have worked out this way, but that just doesn't seem to be its focus.

It's a tool you should get to design your own sounds. If you get being big into presets, you're going to be somewhat disappointed.

It's kinda weird because some of my favorite creators have made presets for the system but I don't find them to be particularly inspirational. Mostly they're just... weird.


----------



## sostenuto

Pier said:


> Yeah but maybe check out some demos of the banks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kilohearts Content Banks
> 
> 
> Find inspiration and learn new techniques, with Kilohearts Content Banks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kilohearts.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I quickly skimmed the banks I didn't like 80% of what I heard. I think the one I liked the most was Suspension by @emptyvessel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kilohearts | Suspension
> 
> 
> Hold on, wait, and soon you'll see. By emptyvessel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kilohearts.com



Appreciate this ! Have One, Snap Heap, Essentials. Seems purchase vs Subscript just involves +/- ~ $21. down road ....


----------



## PhilA

I really need to stop buying synths 😳
They’ve given me a $30 voucher too so that’s a nice surprise.
As it happens a very quick skim of the preset packs had me drawn to Suspension. I’ll do a more in depth listen tomorrow before I commit my free money 😉 I do like a bit of Winged Victory for the Sullen/Hugar slow moving ambient pads though.


----------



## sostenuto

Crowe said:


> Gonna second the whole presets thing. You shouldn't be getting Phaseplant as a preset-player. I'm not sure why it seems to have worked out this way, but that just doesn't seem to be its focus.
> 
> It's a tool you should get to design your own sounds. If you get being big into presets, you're going to be somewhat disappointed.
> 
> It's kinda weird because some of my favorite creators have made presets for the system but I don't find them to be particularly inspirational. Mostly they're just... weird.


Recent Thread _ also involving Generate _ swayed me to wait for PP promo. Main issue was more general capabilities versus niche. Not deep diver, so Preset /Soundbank comments raise concerns. Definitely Preset junkie _ then tweaker. Re-sorting now.


----------



## Crowe

I hadn't really read too deeply into the changes, but the amount of stuff that's now free is pretty crazy. Damn. I'm going to happily continue my RTO sub for the next few years but if you've no use for things like Multipass I'd probably just buy Phaseplant.


----------



## Pier

sostenuto said:


> Not deep diver, so Preset /Soundbank comments raise concerns. Definitely Preset junkie _ then tweaker. Re-sorting now.


I agree with @Crowe 

If you're a preset surfer/tweaker maybe you shouldn't get PhasePlant. There isn't much cinematic content right now.

Or...

Maybe get it on sale and wait for a library of mine later this year


----------



## Pier

FYI

PhasePlant is $89 at Every Plugin if you want to save $10:









Phase Plant v2


Phase Plant offers the best of all worlds when it comes software synths. Classic analog subtractive synthesis, samples, and wavetable technology, presented in a quick and creative way. Get the most our of any snapins you already own by using them to create synth presets that will surprise even...




everyplugin.com


----------



## tressie5

Isn't it interesting how there are two school of thoughts regarding presets - those who ardently search for and rely on them while others don't give a toss? I guess I'm in the create your own patch group given that, with just a cursory glance at most synths, you'll know what it'll sound like especially if all it offers is the rudimentary oscillators>filters>ADSR>modulators>FX paradigm.


----------



## sostenuto

Pier said:


> FYI
> 
> PhasePlant is $89 at Every Plugin if you want to save $10:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phase Plant v2
> 
> 
> Phase Plant offers the best of all worlds when it comes software synths. Classic analog subtractive synthesis, samples, and wavetable technology, presented in a quick and creative way. Get the most our of any snapins you already own by using them to create synth presets that will surprise even...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> everyplugin.com


Aha ! $87.99 in Cart now.


----------



## sostenuto

tressie5 said:


> Isn't it interesting how there are two school of thoughts regarding presets - those who ardently search for and rely on them while others don't give a toss? I guess I'm in the create your own patch group given that, with just a cursory glance at most synths, you'll know what it'll sound like especially if all it offers is the rudimentary oscillators>filters>ADSR>modulators>FX paradigm.


...... and > Those who search for _ then tweak Presets to quickly get to desired result(s).


----------



## PhilA

sostenuto said:


> ...... and > Those who search for _ then tweak Presets to quickly get to desired result(s).


And in the process learn from the betters 😉


----------



## José Herring

They certainly made it more enticing to buy.


----------



## kgdrum

I’m admittedly more of a preset user but what has me baffled as well a bit reluctant with PhasePlant is how complicated the purchasing process is it seems like a menu of choices including buy vs subscribe instead of a simple outright purchase Snapins,effect choices etc….. it seems a bit convoluted for my simple drummers mind. 🤪
Kilohertz doesn’t make this an easy purchasing process.


----------



## tressie5

<--- Guilty of using presets then tweaking them! Waaaaahhhhh!!!

Full disclosure: I'm a Richard Devine fanboy and actively search out his presets in the various synths he programs such as Biotek.


----------



## sostenuto

kgdrum said:


> I’m admittedly more of a preset user but what has me baffled as well a bit reluctant with PhasePlant is how complicated the purchasing process is it seems like a menu of choices including buy vs subscribe instead of a simple outright purchase Snapins,effect choices etc….. it seems a bit convoluted for my simple drummers mind. 🤪
> Kilohertz doesn’t make this an easy purchasing process.


Yeah .... not causing brain cramps, but they know their components / systems, and seem to assume all purchasers do as well. Multipass is now delaying decision _ not having solid sense of how useful it will be. Will not buy at $99., but does change subscription calculation if strong add.


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> I’m admittedly more of a preset user but what has me baffled as well a bit reluctant with PhasePlant is how complicated the purchasing process is it seems like a menu of choices including buy vs subscribe instead of a simple outright purchase Snapins,effect choices etc….. it seems a bit convoluted for my simple drummers mind. 🤪
> Kilohertz doesn’t make this an easy purchasing process.


You know what makes it easy? Go to the fullest package possible, and buy that. Then you have everything. No more thinking.

No more money.

You lose your home.

Your friends don't want you staying with them.

Your family won't let you inside the door because you cost them too much.

It's over.


----------



## DivingInSpace

Pier said:


> I agree with @Crowe
> 
> Or...
> 
> Maybe get it on sale and wait for a library of mine later this year


Or, the one i've been working on since forever 😂


----------



## DivingInSpace

Seems like i've been working so long on this one that it is two years since i released the free lite version lol. If any of you are interested, here it is. I need to recover a large part of my presets from my old (now dead) computer, but when i do, it should be fairly close to completion.









DivingInSpace - Journey Lite for Phase Plant


10 free cinematic and ambient patches for Kilohearts Phase Plant. Every patch has assigned mod wheel controll and at least three macro knobs for different soundshaping possibilities.All sounds in the demo comes from Phase Plant Journey Lite with the exception of kick and snare + a few patches...




divinginspace.gumroad.com


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> You know what makes it easy? Go the fullest package possible, and buy that. Then you have everything. No more thinking.
> 
> No more money.
> 
> You lose your home.
> 
> Your friends don't want you staying with them.
> 
> Your family won't let you inside the door because you cost them too much.
> 
> It's over.





Sweet Bee, 
As always I appreciate your insight and great suggestions! Now I can finally buy everything without hesitation! The days of agonizing over budgeting,purchasing decisions,responsibilities and basic common sense………..talk about a fucking waste of time!
OK 
From this day forward I will follow your roadmap with all of my purchasing,lifestyle and interpersonal decisions. From now on I will always say to myself: What would Bee do?
Thanks 😘


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> Sweet Bee,
> As always I appreciate your insight and great suggestions! Now I can finally buy everything without hesitation!
> OK
> From this day forward I will follow your roadmap with all of my purchasing,lifestyle and interpersonal decisions. From now on I will always say to myself: What would Bee do?
> Thanks 😘


I have an official letter that says that I'm mad. Would you like one of those too?!

I am not a reliable life coach!


----------



## Kuusniemi

Pier said:


> I agree with @Crowe
> 
> If you're a preset surfer/tweaker maybe you shouldn't get PhasePlant. There isn't much cinematic content right now.
> 
> Or...
> 
> Maybe get it on sale and wait for a library of mine later this year


Well, the official content banks aren't yet cinematically oriented but.... maybe check out the two banks I've released...  (Shameless plug intended)


----------



## Bee_Abney

Kuusniemi said:


> Well, the official content banks aren't yet cinematically oriented but.... maybe check out the two banks I've released...  (Shameless plug intended)


You shouldn't have to blow your own trumpet! Here, allow me:









Fawkes | Man Makes Noise


Fawkes organic cinematic suspense and tension patches for Kilohearts' Phase Plant from Man Makes Noise.




www.manmakesnoise.com















PhaseFreak | Man Makes Noise


PhaseFreak cinematic synth patches for Kilohearts' Phase Plant from Man Makes Noise.




www.manmakesnoise.com







They sound jolly good!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> I have an official letter that says that I'm mad. Would you like one of those too?!
> 
> I am not a reliable life coach!




A letter? 

My oh my you really are an amateur, there are libraries at universities and medical schools with books detailing my type of “unique personality”


You’re still my most inspirational, officially designated VI-C life and shower coach!


----------



## Bee_Abney

kgdrum said:


> A letter?
> 
> My oh my you really are an amateur, there are libraries at universities and medical schools with books detailing my type of “unique personality”
> 
> 
> You’re still my most inspirational officially designated VI-C life and shower coach!


Don't forget the lye!


----------



## kgdrum

Bee_Abney said:


> Don't forget the lye!




I love the sophisticated mind of this detail oriented lifestyle and shower coach! 🤔


----------



## Kuusniemi

Bee_Abney said:


> You shouldn't have to blow your own trumpet! Here, allow me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fawkes | Man Makes Noise
> 
> 
> Fawkes organic cinematic suspense and tension patches for Kilohearts' Phase Plant from Man Makes Noise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.manmakesnoise.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PhaseFreak | Man Makes Noise
> 
> 
> PhaseFreak cinematic synth patches for Kilohearts' Phase Plant from Man Makes Noise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.manmakesnoise.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They sound jolly good!



Thanks for digging them up! 

Next up with MMN is another Omnisphere library but I'll be back with PP after that. :D


----------



## tressie5

@Bee_Abney - "I have an official letter that says that I'm mad."

Hah! I've been consigned to a straitjacket, so I win!


----------



## Technostica

Pier said:


> This is a really good introduction:



Absolutely. 
After recently looking at videos of modular synth VIs with cables cluttering up the screen, it was refreshing to see the workflow with this. 
The fact that you can minimise modules that don't require much attention once set, is one of many handy features.
I don't usually follow these kinds of synths, but this has impressed. 
With the sale and all the free effects that can be integrated, I think they will get some good sales figures this month.


----------



## Pier

Technostica said:


> Absolutely.
> After recently looking at videos of modular synth VIs with cables cluttering up the screen, it was refreshing to see the workflow with this.
> The fact that you can minimise modules that don't require much attention once set, is one of many handy features.
> I don't usually follow these kinds of synths, but this has impressed.
> With the sale and all the free effects that can be integrated, I think they will get some good sales figures this month.


Yep. And don't forget all the workflow improvements of V2 .


----------



## Technostica

Pier said:


> Yep. And don't forget all the workflow improvements of V2 .



I just watched that.
I didn't know much about version 1 before today, so there's a lot to take in.
It's captured my imagination to a surprising degree.

I demoed the AAS modular last week and even on sale at $35 I decided to pass due to the workflow.
I was looking at the Arturia Buchla Easel V also, but before I had a chance to demo it, JRRShop briefly had it for about 75% off, so I figured I would buy it and demo it before registering.
After checking out Phase Plant, I may not even bother and just sell it on and put the funds towards PP.
I only want to choose one to dig in to.


----------



## tressie5

I'll probably get a lot of hate mail for this, but another reason why I drag my feet with PhasePlant is because it has no arpeggiator. Yeah, I can do arpeggiator-like things with the MSEG's, but that's a rather convoluted, non-intuitive route.


----------



## KEM

tressie5 said:


> I'll probably get a lot of hate mail for this, but another reason why I drag my feet with PhasePlant is because it has no arpeggiator. Yeah, I can do arpeggiator-like things with the MSEG's, but that's a rather convoluted, non-intuitive route.



Yeah a built in arpeggiator is kinda one of those “duhhhh” features that every modern synth should have, but I’m willing to overlook it in this case, but who knows maybe it’ll come in the future


----------



## tressie5

I do, however, take back my statements about Phaseplant's bright, somewhat harsh sounds. What happens is I'm new to modular, so months ago, Phaseplant was a little intimidating. Now that I've dipped my toes in Cardinal Rack, CV-1 and SoloRack, Phaseplant is a walk in the park by comparison. I didn't know until recently, for instance, that a simple adjustment of the pole in the filter can give me the exact sound I want. I'll now hang my head in shame and give myself ten lashes.


----------



## Pier

tressie5 said:


> I'll probably get a lot of hate mail for this, but another reason why I drag my feet with PhasePlant is because it has no arpeggiator. Yeah, I can do arpeggiator-like things with the MSEG's, but that's a rather convoluted, non-intuitive route.


I have mixed feelings about arps and sequencers into synths and presets to be honest.

On one hand, personally, I very rarely used those when making music. And if I want it, most DAWs have arps these days anyway. There are very popular synths that do not have an arp or a sequencer (Serum, Massive X, etc) so I'm guessing they did some market research.

On the other hand, when making cinematic synth libraries, I use those all the time. Arps and sequences are a staple of cinematic presets.

But then there's a whole other aspect about copyright. No one will probably use a sequence included in a preset in a commercial project.

I would definitely like PhasePlant to have at least an arp, if not a full blown sequencer like Pigments, but I would totally understand if KiloHearts gave priority to other features like granular, multi-samples, etc.


----------



## emptyvessel

Pier said:


> I agree with @Crowe
> 
> If you're a preset surfer/tweaker maybe you shouldn't get PhasePlant. There isn't much cinematic content right now.
> 
> Or...
> 
> Maybe get it on sale and wait for a library of mine later this year


I did make a small (32 presets 10 euro) library outside of Suspension which is on my own store, a bit more my usual style and I think very suitable for soundtrack work. To be completely blunt it really hasn't sold spectacularly for whatever reason or I would be incredibly keen to work on more, I really love Phase Plant and the improvements to PP & the fx hosts have really opened up the sound design possibilities now.
A big part of the community around PP seems to be made up of people keen to do their own sound design, which I think is fantastic but bah humbug (waves fist at clouds and screams for kids to get off lawn!) from a preset creator perspective! 

As a purchase for $99, if you want a very deep synth with an extremely well thought out workflow and bravely free routing and modulation possibilities, I *really* do recommend it.


----------



## Pier

emptyvessel said:


> To be completely blunt it really hasn't sold spectacularly for whatever reason or I would be incredibly keen to work on more, I really love Phase Plant and the improvements to PP & the fx hosts have really opened up the sound design possibilities now.


It's still quite unknown outside the EDM world but I think it's only a matter of time.

Tom Holkenborg has it in his template but he's a synth geek and probably makes his own patches.

As more sound designers discover it and produce more content for it, it's pretty much inevitable it will become huge in the cinematic world in a couple of years. Specially if Kilohearts add a couple of killer features like multi-samples.


----------



## sostenuto

Naive reply _ but where does PP take me beyond current Omni2, Repro 1-5, Pigments, Spire, Massive X, Vital ?


----------



## emptyvessel

sostenuto said:


> Naive reply _ but where does PP take me beyond current Omni2, Repro 1-5, Pigments, Spire, Massive X, Vital ?


that's quite a list of sound design possibilities and different sounds there for sure, but...
to me the most distinctive thing with Phase Plant and the snap ins is - you can route pretty much anything, anywhere, including audio. Want to create your own wavetable (with one of the best wavetable editors I've used) then use the output of the wavetable to modulate the phase of a sample of a banana being dropped into a bucket of soup then use the result to modulate the pitch of a hugely unison set of "analog" oscillators and at the same time the frequency of a filter (polyphonically)? Well, my friend, you certainly can do that. Will it sound good? Who knows but you can try.

Seriously though, it's great to drop in a field recording sample of some hailstones on the roof then use that as a modulation source just a little to give some interesting movement to the position of a wavetable etc. etc. The new wavetable LFO is very nice too!
It's a great way to spend half an hour dragging modulation around until it results in a completely unusable cacophony of noise but with care it's really the source of some very very organic sounds that I think aren't achievable with many other synths - at least not ones I've used, or not so easily/fluidly.
You can get somewhere in the same area now that Arturia added inter-engine modulation into Pigments: banana/soup/bucket sample in one engine, wavetable in the other, add modulation to taste etc. 
You can go so much further with Phase Plant though, including modulating FX parameters with audio!


----------



## tressie5

One thing I've noticed here, on KVR, and other places, is people often get arpeggiators and sequencers mixed up. Arpeggiators are timed movement of either notes you've chosen or notes chosen by random for you. Sequencers are a specific sequence of notes you've chosen, that's why Pigments makes that distinction with their sequencer and arpeggiator sections. 

In the ambient music I and many others create, arpeggiators - specifically those with random steps - are a staple. As a matter of fact, when it comes to sequencing specific notes, I simply play them in Cubase and loop them, but a random arp can continue on its merry generative way throughout the track, happily not producing similar sequences of notes.


----------



## Pier

sostenuto said:


> Naive reply _ but where does PP take me beyond current Omni2, Repro 1-5, Pigments, Spire, Massive X, Vital ?


Depends on how far you want to push it.

For simple patches probably not, but you get audio rate modulation and the effects routing/modulation possibilities are unrivaled in any synth. Stuff like having a polyphonic effects lane doesn't exist anywhere else AFAIK (eg: have a different reverb setting on every note).


----------



## sostenuto

Pier said:


> Depends on how far you want to push it.
> 
> For simple patches probably not, but you get audio rate modulation and the effects routing/modulation possibilities are unrivaled in any synth. Stuff like having a polyphonic effects lane doesn't exist anywhere else AFAIK (eg: have a different reverb setting on every note).


......... or depends on how far I am _capable _of pushing it ? Surely not a short- term add, so must factor in future needs, interests, unknowns. Appreciate these perspectives. 
Current pricing makes PP ultra-attractive, at this moment.


----------



## emptyvessel

Pier said:


> Stuff like having a polyphonic effects lane doesn't exist anywhere else AFAIK (eg: have a different reverb setting on every note).


per note effect instances are possible in Falcon but the full range of fx modules is not available - reverb and delay are missing for example.


----------



## Bee_Abney

emptyvessel said:


> per note effect instances are possible in Falcon but the full range of fx modules is not available - reverb and delay are missing for example.


For recording and composing, it is something that DAWs handle perfectly well, though. For that, Phaseplant advantage is in being able to hear the different reverbs and delays whilst composing and tracking - hopefully, and presumably, without latency problems.


----------



## Crowe

KEM said:


> Yeah a built in arpeggiator is kinda one of those “duhhhh” features that every modern synth should have, but I’m willing to overlook it in this case, but who knows maybe it’ll come in the future


Why exactly would you *not* get Kirnu Cream or something similar, get truly familiar with a single arpeggiator and use that for all your other synths?

Arpeggiators on synthesizers are rather pointless if you ask me. They usually suck.

Even my hardware synths get dedicated arpeggiators as I've yet to find a synth with an internal one I like.


----------



## KEM

Crowe said:


> Why exactly would you *not* get Kirnu Cream or something similar, get truly familiar with a single arpeggiator and use that for all your other synths?
> 
> Arpeggiators on synthesizers are rather pointless if you ask me. They usually suck.
> 
> Even my hardware synths get dedicated arpeggiators as I've yet to find a synth with an internal one I like.



That’s why I need Animation Station!!


----------



## KEM

Also I just bought Phase Plant


----------



## Crowe

KEM said:


> Also I just bought Phase Plant


One of us. One of us.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Crowe said:


> One of us. One of us.


----------



## Bee_Abney

I think this still has something to be said for it:


----------



## Crowe

Bee_Abney said:


> I think this still has something to be said for it:


Falcons don't generally skateboard, Bee.

EDIT: That's one happy looking falcon though.


----------



## DivingInSpace

Crowe said:


> Why exactly would you *not* get Kirnu Cream or something similar, get truly familiar with a single arpeggiator and use that for all your other synths?
> 
> Arpeggiators on synthesizers are rather pointless if you ask me. They usually suck.
> 
> Even my hardware synths get dedicated arpeggiators as I've yet to find a synth with an internal one I like.


Imo, a dedicated arpeggiator modulator in Phase Plant could be a really advanced tool if done right. It is the modular enviroment in Phase Plant that would make it really interesting, have three different voices, with each their arpeggiator in different tempos, using different settings, maybe with a textural layer underneath. You can probably do things that would work kinda the same way, but in Phase Plant you would be able to modulate anything with an apreggiator, filters, effects levels, FM amount, the level of a LFO, sample start, the list goes on.

In Phase Plant an arpeggiator could be crazy powerfull.


----------



## Crowe

DivingInSpace said:


> Imo, a dedicated arpeggiator modulator in Phase Plant could be a really advanced tool if done right. It is the modular enviroment in Phase Plant that would make it really interesting, have three different voices, with each their arpeggiator in different tempos, using different settings, maybe with a textural layer underneath. You can probably do things that would work kinda the same way, but in Phase Plant you would be able to modulate anything with an apreggiator, filters, effects levels, FM amount, the level of a LFO, sample start, the list goes on.
> 
> In Phase Plant an arpeggiator could be crazy powerfull.


That's actually not a bad argument. Not sure I'd need something like that anytime soon considering the multitude of modulation options now available, but I do see the value of being able to arpeggiate everything but the actual notes .


----------



## Bee_Abney

Crowe said:


> That's actually not a bad argument. Not sure I'd need something like that anytime soon considering the multitude of modulation options now available, but I do see the value of being able to arpeggiate everything but the actual notes .


Although that can be achieved by modulating the effects and modulation the modulation modulation. Well, arpeggiation of the modulation is a form of modulation itself. If it is an easy and intuitive way of handling that modulation, then it would be a useful additional tool. The point being - and here I agree with you and @DivingInSpace - that an external arpeggiator can't get inside of the effects and filters, and so on, within Phaseplant.

There are, however, external modulators that can get inside of synths - through midi modulation, anything automatable can be modulated (in principle). And an external modulator of that kind could be designed as an arpeggiator.

Does anyone know if such an arpeggiator plugin exists already? Basically, modulation by step sequencer will be doing more or less the same thing.


----------



## Crowe

Bee_Abney said:


> Although that can be achieved by modulating the effects and modulation the modulation modulation. Well, arpeggiation of the modulation is a form of modulation itself. If it is an easy and intuitive way of handling that modulation, then it would be a useful additional tool. The point being - and here I agree with you and @DivingInSpace - that an external arpeggiator can't get inside of the effects and filters, and so on, within Phaseplant.
> 
> There are, however, external modulators that can get inside of synths - through midi modulation, anything automatable can be modulated (in principle). And an external modulator of that kind could be designed as an arpeggiator.
> 
> Does anyone know if such an arpeggiator plugin exists already? Basically, modulation by step sequencer will be doing more or less the same thing.


Considering Midi CC don't have notevalue information a stepsequencer would be a bit weird in use. I think the closest you can get is by using something like LFOTool by Xfer. https://xferrecords.com/products/lfo-tool


----------



## Kuusniemi

KEM said:


> Also I just bought Phase Plant


Great! Welcome to the party! 



Bee_Abney said:


> Although that can be achieved by modulating the effects and modulation the modulation modulation. Well, arpeggiation of the modulation is a form of modulation itself. If it is an easy and intuitive way of handling that modulation, then it would be a useful additional tool. The point being - and here I agree with you and @DivingInSpace - that an external arpeggiator can't get inside of the effects and filters, and so on, within Phaseplant.
> 
> There are, however, external modulators that can get inside of synths - through midi modulation, anything automatable can be modulated (in principle). And an external modulator of that kind could be designed as an arpeggiator.
> 
> Does anyone know if such an arpeggiator plugin exists already? Basically, modulation by step sequencer will be doing more or less the same thing.


Well, this might do the trick:








GATELAB by Audiomodern™ | The Creative Gate Sequencer


a creative gate sequencer, volume modulation generator and beyond. An endlessly variable audio plugin for Windows, macOS and iOS.




audiomodern.com





"It can also send MIDI data, giving it the ability to control or randomize parameters in other plugins."


----------



## tressie5

Those three free Audiomodern plugins (Gatelab, Panflow and Filterstep) are the missing ingredients for a synth's typically lacking arpeggiator (except Diversion, Wavestate Native and Thorn which are chock full of additional goodies already). 

The arpeggiator in Phuturetone's GR-8 is pretty cool but lacks in step length, step volume, steps in general, automated panning, tie notes, swing/shuffle and ratcheting (like Papen's Go2, Predator3, SoloRack2, etc).


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> For recording and composing, it is something that DAWs handle perfectly well, though.


They do?


----------



## ckeddf

I feel like I'm being thick - I'm interested in Phaseplant and Multipass. With the new pricing and free snapins, it seems cheaper to buy during a sale as opposed to go subscription? Say, Phaseplant now, Multipass (and maybe some snapins) later. Multipass was 70% off last December, plug-ins 50%. The voucher cannot be used during sale periods, as far as I understand?
All that is assuming they offer similar discounts in the future, of course.


----------



## Pier

ckeddf said:


> I feel like I'm being thick - I'm interested in Phaseplant and Multipass. With the new pricing and free snapins, it seems cheaper to buy during a sale as opposed to go subscription? Say, Phaseplant now, Multipass (and maybe some snapins) later. Multipass was 70% off last December, plug-ins 50%. The voucher cannot be used during sale periods, as far as I understand?
> All that is assuming they offer similar discounts in the future, of course.


Depends on what KiloHearts have planned for the future.

At this price and with the current content it doesn't make much sense to subscribe, but surely KiloHearts are not idiots. They will probably be creating more stuff that will not be free and included in the subscription.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> They do?


I just mean a mixture of automation and recording manual adjustment of parameters. I find it the easiest way to time all changes accurately for the context.


----------



## emptyvessel

Bee_Abney said:


> For recording and composing, it is something that DAWs handle perfectly well, though. For that, Phaseplant advantage is in being able to hear the different reverbs and delays whilst composing and tracking - hopefully, and presumably, without latency problems.


Pier was talking about the possibility in PhasePlant to have polyphonic effects, i.e. a distinct reverb instance (for example) on each and every note played rather than one reverb over all the notes, not something that I can think of as an option in many (any? perhaps Bitwig) DAWs. In my experience with trying such things in PP the results aren't really compelling unless you find setting fire to your CPU compelling in and of itself, YMMV.


----------



## Wes Mayhall

Bee_Abney said:


>


Right now Googling "how to unsee something".


----------



## Wes Mayhall

ckeddf said:


> voucher cannot be used during sale periods


This is key to take into account when considering the subscription route.


----------



## tressie5

"...a distinct reverb on each and every note..." seems a bit extreme, but if I was tasked with that, I suppose my solutions would be 1. Separate the notes onto different tracks, or 2. Use something like Cubase's Modulator FX where you can map out the reverb levels to rise and fall in time with the steps of the beat you'd like affected.


----------



## tressie5

Come to think of it, it can probably be done in PP by routing the LFO to the reverb and carving out rises and falls there. Thing is, though, reverb tails might obscure the desired effect, unless you're going for a gated reverb. I don't even know if PP has that.


----------



## Wes Mayhall

When I first tried the Phaseplant demo, I was a bit frustrated with some of its quirks and limitations, and I decided I wasn't going to buy it. I even started a list of issues I had with it. Then a sale came along - darn those sales! 
Now, I have to say, in V2 they have answered almost all of those issues.
Thanks Kilohearts!

(just one little thing - now that you have a good S&H - and thanks for that - it could use a 'lag' control)


----------



## Pier

tressie5 said:


> "...a distinct reverb on each and every note..." seems a bit extreme, but if I was tasked with that, I suppose my solutions would be 1. Separate the notes onto different tracks, or 2. Use something like Cubase's Modulator FX where you can map out the reverb levels to rise and fall in time with the steps of the beat you'd like affected.


Tails resets the feedback of the reverb on every new note so that you only get reverberation for the last note.

With PhasePlant you can have the reverb for every single note so it can be modulated per note, made longer for higher notes, etc. Honestly, it's not something I'd do every day but I thought it was a nice example to explain polyphonic effects.

Or you could have different delay times depending on the note played, and all active delays would be running in parallel rather than having a single delay fx at the stereo output of the voices.

Etc.

Typically synths allow to have per voice filter and distortion. PhasePlant allows to have *any effect* per voice if you want to. Again, it's not something you'd use every day, but I'm sure it's an interesting route for exploration.


----------



## KEM

Pier said:


> Depends on what KiloHearts have planned for the future.
> 
> At this price and with the current content it doesn't make much sense to subscribe, but surely KiloHearts are not idiots. They will probably be creating more stuff that will not be free and included in the subscription.



It makes a lot more sense to just buy Phase Plant and then get the Slate bundle, that’s what I did


----------



## emptyvessel

tressie5 said:


> Come to think of it, it can probably be done in PP by routing the LFO to the reverb and carving out rises and falls there. Thing is, though, reverb tails might obscure the desired effect, unless you're going for a gated reverb. I don't even know if PP has that.







Hit the poly button at the top of the fx lane and the fx in the chain apply to individual notes, it's pretty cool but as I said earlier it's pretty heavy on the CPU. Phase Plant, Multipass and SnapHeap have a bunch of features that you will rarely find anywhere else.


----------



## tressie5

"Hit the poly button at the top of the fx lane and the fx in the chain apply to individual notes..."

Which individual notes - randomly or the ones you choose? Maybe both choices?


----------



## Pier

tressie5 said:


> "Hit the poly button at the top of the fx lane and the fx in the chain apply to individual notes..."
> 
> Which individual notes - randomly or the ones you choose? Maybe both choices?


Well... the notes you play?

As in there will be an effects chain per voice.


----------



## emptyvessel

Pier said:


> Tails resets the feedback of the reverb on every new note so that you only get reverberation for the last note.


Tails actually has multiple reverb buffers, when it detects something it sees as new activity it ducks and switches over to a rapidly building second buffer which simply doesn't contain the audio from prior to the switch. Pretty clever stuff.


----------



## emptyvessel

tressie5 said:


> "Hit the poly button at the top of the fx lane and the fx in the chain apply to individual notes..."
> 
> Which individual notes - randomly or the ones you choose? Maybe both choices?


yeah Pier described it well comparing it to the pretty standard architecture on subtractive synths where each voice (triggered by each note you play) has an oscillator which leads into its own filter and at some point, usually after the VCA, the signal path becomes a mix of all of those separate voice paths. It's unusual for there to then be a reverb or delay unit or chorus, phaser etc. etc. for each and every voice the synth has, they all just sit after the mixer and affect the whole mix.
If you set Phase Plant to 8 note polyphony then turn on the poly button on the lane then you will get 8 individual sets of any fx you put in the chain - one set for each note you play. If you're playing 8 notes you'll have 8 delays, 8 reverbs, 8 chorus, 8 phasers each taking input only from one of the voices, one of the notes you're playing.


----------



## Wes Mayhall

richmwhitfield said:


> Haven't you checked Snap Heap?


I didn't know what you were talking about! Just found Asteroider in Snap Heap. Crazy!


----------



## sostenuto

Wes Mayhall said:


> I didn't know what you were talking about! Just found Asteroider in Snap Heap. Crazy!


Me neither, and now full circle back to others on shortlist. 
No question PP is impressive, but have a deep-diving phobia. 

Either back to Generate crossgrade < $65. or CUBE Bundle. ~ $125. 
GASified by all these deals. 😵


----------



## Alchemedia

sostenuto said:


> Me neither, and now full circle back to others on shortlist.
> No question PP is impressive, but have a deep-diving phobia.
> 
> Either back to Generate crossgrade < $65. or CUBE Bundle. ~ $125.
> GASified by all these deals. 😵


Generate!


----------



## sostenuto

THX ! Not stressing seriously over this, yet influenced by so many posts in different directions, by capable, trusted members. Generate is fairly easy move, having Pendulate, and crossgrade cost is no issue. 

CUBE has now released their "Mini'. Makes good sense to consider, as first step.


----------



## spektralisk

sostenuto said:


> Me neither, and now full circle back to others on shortlist.
> No question PP is impressive, but have a deep-diving phobia.
> 
> Either back to Generate crossgrade < $65. or CUBE Bundle. ~ $125.
> GASified by all these deals. 😵


Generate first. But why not both? :D


----------



## spektralisk

When I saw that PP has a polyphonic effect section I was stoked. I don't know any other synth that has this.

Now, Kilohearts, let us modulate macros polyphonically :D


----------



## liquidlino

spektralisk said:


> When I saw that PP has a polyphonic effect section I was stoked. I don't know any other synth that has this.
> 
> Now, Kilohearts, let us modulate macros polyphonically :D


Falcon does, to a point. More cpu intensive fx like verb aren't allowed at the polyphonic level. But pretty much everything else is. Distortion is interesting, because there's a massive difference between distortion applied per voice, as opposed to per layer or per patch. I've been playing with the PP demo today. I really really like the supersaws in PP, they sound just like a JP-8000. Torn, as I have Pigments and Falcon, PP seems like I'd be doubling up, except for the beautiful unison mode.


----------



## Montisquirrel

ckeddf said:


> I feel like I'm being thick - I'm interested in Phaseplant and Multipass. With the new pricing and free snapins, it seems cheaper to buy during a sale as opposed to go subscription? Say, Phaseplant now, Multipass (and maybe some snapins) later. Multipass was 70% off last December, plug-ins 50%. The voucher cannot be used during sale periods, as far as I understand?
> All that is assuming they offer similar discounts in the future, of course.


I have a subscription and I have used Phaseplant and all the addon a lot, so I am happy, love the Synth.

But in the beginning I didn't know that the voucher (100$ each year of subscribtion) can't be used on sales. This feels kind of unfair. I wrote to Kilohearts and they told me they would like to make it available, but it has to do with the third party payment service. Kind of strange.

I will wait until the end of this year, I will have a 300$ voucher and than go fo the Ultimate Edition.


----------



## Crowe

Montisquirrel said:


> I have a subscription and I have used Phaseplant and all the addon a lot, so I am happy, love the Synth.
> 
> But in the beginning I didn't know that the voucher (100$ each year of subscribtion) can't be used on sales. This feels kind of unfair. I wrote to Kilohearts and they told me they would like to make it available, but it has to do with the third party payment service. Kind of strange.
> 
> I will wait until the end of this year, I will have a 300$ voucher and than go fo the Ultimate Edition.


Isn't it possible to buy Phaseplant and/or multipass on sale and use the vouchers to complete the bundle? That's what I was eventually planning on.


----------



## Wes Mayhall

liquidlino said:


> Torn, as I have Pigments and Falcon, PP seems like I'd be doubling up


Same here (Pigments and Falcon). I felt like I needed to concentrate on Falcon for a while, then Kilohearts had one of their accursed sales  , (ahem, like the one they're doing right now - $99), and I was done for.
edit: actually, now that I check, I paid $199 for the 'Phase Plant plus Toolbox Professional' package in December.


----------



## Bee_Abney

emptyvessel said:


> Pier was talking about the possibility in PhasePlant to have polyphonic effects, i.e. a distinct reverb instance (for example) on each and every note played rather than one reverb over all the notes, not something that I can think of as an option in many (any? perhaps Bitwig) DAWs. In my experience with trying such things in PP the results aren't really compelling unless you find setting fire to your CPU compelling in and of itself, YMMV.


I would do that in Studio One by 'exploding' notes to separate tracks. Any DAW can do that. Separate effects on different notes is definitely one of the easiest things to accomplish in a recorded track. Plugin Guru's Unify makes it easy to do live. For separate effects on different voices, it's even easier - in Unify or the DAW, have separate tracks /instances for each voice and play/record them at the same time. 

I'm not knocking Phaseplant, but this sort of thing is more important to creating shareable patches than it is for music production, where it can be done easily with any instrument.


----------



## tressie5

I was experimenting with the Lane Polyphony setting but I still don't understand it, so I have a few questions.
1. How does it select and affect individual notes you're playing? Is it supposed to be able to do that?
2. If I send two modules' outputs, say a sample and wavetable patch, to Lane 1 where there's a reverb and delay, is Poly supposed to make it that I can just assign reverb to the sample and delay to the wavetable?


----------



## Montisquirrel

Crowe said:


> Isn't it possible to buy Phaseplant and/or multipass on sale and use the vouchers to complete the bundle? That's what I was eventually planning on.


I think that should work. I have not yet taken the time to check that if you buy the Ultimate Edition you can get it cheaper based on the stuff you already own.


----------



## Bee_Abney

liquidlino said:


> Falcon does, to a point. More cpu intensive fx like verb aren't allowed at the polyphonic level. But pretty much everything else is. Distortion is interesting, because there's a massive difference between distortion applied per voice, as opposed to per layer or per patch. I've been playing with the PP demo today. I really really like the supersaws in PP, they sound just like a JP-8000. Torn, as I have Pigments and Falcon, PP seems like I'd be doubling up, except for the beautiful unison mode.


As you say, it may be more CPU intensive, but with Falcon, you would simply have a Multi, and then any effects can differ between voices.


----------



## liquidlino

tressie5 said:


> I was experimenting with the Lane Polyphony setting but I still don't understand it, so I have a few questions.
> 1. How does it select and affect individual notes you're playing? Is it supposed to be able to do that?
> 2. If I send two modules' outputs, say a sample and wavetable patch, to Lane 1 where there's a reverb and delay, is Poly supposed to make it that I can just assign reverb to the sample and delay to the wavetable?


It's not as complex as you think. Basically, imagine that every time you press a key on the keyboard, a whole new synth is created (we call this a "voice"), that has it's own instance of all the oscillators and filters and envelopers and fx, and only that one note is played through that instance of the synth. Any other new notes, they get their own instances of the synth just for themselves too. Lots and lots of copies of the synth. So it quickly eats up CPU if you're not careful, but can be gold for certain types of sounds. For instance, distortion - multiple notes going through a single distortion fx sounds very different to each note having its own distortion fx instance, due to internote modulation thingymybobbby stuff. Try it and you'll see, per-note distortion sounds clean and crisp, whereas a single distortion for all notes sounds crunchy and really reacts badly to certain combinations of intervals (one of the reasons rock music uses power chords with distortion - perfect fifths and fourths are fine, it's the thirds and seconds and sixths etc that really cause distortion to go mental).


----------



## sostenuto

spektralisk said:


> Generate first. But why not both? :D


Likely will now _ due to CUBE Mini offering. 
Later Crossgrade /Upgrade is attractive, and Mini can use Expansions. 👍🏻


----------



## Pier

tressie5 said:


> I was experimenting with the Lane Polyphony setting but I still don't understand it, so I have a few questions.
> 1. How does it select and affect individual notes you're playing? Is it supposed to be able to do that?
> 2. If I send two modules' outputs, say a sample and wavetable patch, to Lane 1 where there's a reverb and delay, is Poly supposed to make it that I can just assign reverb to the sample and delay to the wavetable?


What you're describing is more like sending each generator to different effects lanes and is not related to polyphony.

Consider this. Typically synths have a filter(s) per voice. This means that:

- The filter can change over time with an envelope, for every note.
- You can have a different cutoff setting depending on the note you're playing (via keytracking).
- If you have an LFO it will apply different values to the filter depending on the note because LFO between notes are not synced (unless you're using a global LFO)
- Etc.

This is extremely common when using synths, right?

How this works is that every time you press a key, the synth will "duplicate" a new voice structure with whatever you have configured. So if you're playing a chord with 4 notes, you would have say 4 oscillator and 4 filters.

With polyphonic effects it's the same thing except that instead of using a filter you're using an effect. Any effect (reverb, distortion, delay, etc).

For example, the effect can change over time using an envelope, for every note. Or you can have different values depending on the note value via keytracking, an LFO, or something else producing a random value.

This is possible because PhasePlant will "create" a new effect instance (reverb etc) for every note you're playing. And all those would be playing in parallel. Again, if you're playing a 4 notes chord, you'd have 4 reverbs running. Of course you'd need to modulate the reverb in some way for this to make sense.

Does this make sense?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> What you're describing is more like sending each generator to different effects lanes and is not related to polyphony.
> 
> Consider this. Typically synths have a filter(s) per voice. This means that:
> 
> - The filter can change over time with an envelope, for every note.
> - You can have a different cutoff setting depending on the note you're playing (via keytracking).
> - If you have an LFO it will apply different values to the filter depending on the note because LFO between notes are not synced (unless you're using a global LFO)
> - Etc.
> 
> This is extremely common when using synths, right?
> 
> With polyphonic effects it's the same thing except that instead of using a filter you're using an effect. Any effect (reverb, distortion, delay, etc).
> 
> For example, the effect can change over time using an envelope, for every note. Or you can have different values depending on the note value via keytracking, an LFO, or something else producing a random value.
> 
> Does this make sense?


It does sound impressive when laid out like that!


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> It does sound impressive when laid out like that!


'Impressive' _ definitely applies here ! 🤪


----------



## sostenuto

So many strong positives for PP ! Maybe oscillating a bit, as 3rd Pty Expansions will continue to augment included Presets. Likelihood of increasing quantity/quality seems high. 
Jus sayin' _ as shallow-diver wanting to _Preset & Tweak_.


----------



## Pier

sostenuto said:


> So many strong positives for PP ! Maybe oscillating a bit, as 3rd Pty Expansions will continue to augment included Presets. Likelihood of increasing quantity/quality seems high.
> Jus sayin' _ as shallow-diver wanting to _Preset & Tweak_.


Yeah definitely.

The $99 deal is pretty good but I wouldn't stress much over it. There will be other sales in the future and you can hop on/off the subscription at any time.


----------



## tressie5

Yeah, y'all's explanations make sense. Thanks for that. It's just that I've never heard the term "per note distortion" ever used by Kuassa, Ample Guitar, Positive Grid, Line 6, IK Multimedia or whoever makes software amps. They are, however, quick to tout 2x to 8x oversampling as the holy grail of authenticity.

Also, the embarrassing thing is I kept on switching back and forth between Poly being off and on and couldn't hear the difference using delay or reverb. I'll give the distortion thing a looksee later.


----------



## spektralisk

tressie5 said:


> Yeah, y'all's explanations make sense. Thanks for that. It's just that I've never heard the term "per note distortion" ever used by Kuassa, Ample Guitar, Positive Grid, Line 6, IK Multimedia or whoever makes software amps. They are, however, quick to tout 2x to 8x oversampling as the holy grail of authenticity.
> 
> Also, the embarrassing thing is I kept on switching back and forth between Poly being off and on and couldn't hear the difference using delay or reverb. I'll give the distortion thing a looksee later.


Try this:

put the delay fully wet on Lane 1 
modulate the delay time with triangle LFO (should be triggered by each new played note)
play three note chord where note timing is slightly set apart
When Poly is off you will hear one pitch sweeping tone for all the notes in the chord.
When Poly is on you will hear three separate sweeps set apart depending and when you triggered the notes.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Pier

tressie5 said:


> Yeah, y'all's explanations make sense. Thanks for that. It's just that I've never heard the term "per note distortion" ever used by Kuassa, Ample Guitar, Positive Grid, Line 6, IK Multimedia or whoever makes software amps. They are, however, quick to tout 2x to 8x oversampling as the holy grail of authenticity.


Well yeah because those are stereo processors and not synths!

Many (most?) synths have polyphonic distortion. Either in the filter itself or as part of the voice architecture.


----------



## Technostica

Some of the Roland G series Guitar synths from the late 70s and early 80s onwards had a hexaphonic fuzz mode which was separate from the synth section I think.


----------



## sostenuto

Has there been any posted rankings /ratings or preferences re. PP Sound Banks ?
Counting 16 now and only few preferences, based on known creators.
Leaning to: Animus, Polychrome Suspension.


----------



## liquidlino

https://www.reddit.com/r/phaseplant/ is quite interesting


----------



## tressie5

I must admit: I'm rather enjoying PP. Truly, I am. It's definitely not one of those synths where, with just one quick glance, you know what it already sounds like. 

Someone on another forum mentioned the ProTools synth, SynthCell, so I went over to look at it. Let's see: Two oscillators with the typical pulse, saw, tri, etc. Two filters with the typical LP12, notch, etc. Typical filter and amp envelopes. Typical mod LFO and Matrix. Rudimentary typical arpeggiator. Typical effects - reverb, delay, distortion, chorus, flanger and phaser. Yep. It's sound is already in my head.

I'm really spoiled because once you get full-featured free synths like SurgeXT, GR-8, Monique, Helm, Podolski, Ocean Swift stuff and especially Vital, I think the big companies really need to up their game.


----------



## emptyvessel

tressie5 said:


> I must admit: I'm rather enjoying PP. Truly, I am. It's definitely not one of those synths where, with just one quick glance, you know what it already sounds like.
> 
> Someone on another forum mentioned the ProTools synth, SynthCell, so I went over to look at it. Let's see: Two oscillators with the typical pulse, saw, tri, etc. Two filters with the typical LP12, notch, etc. Typical filter and amp envelopes. Typical mod LFO and Matrix. Rudimentary typical arpeggiator. Typical effects - reverb, delay, distortion, chorus, flanger and phaser. Yep. It's sound is already in my head.
> 
> I'm really spoiled because once you get full-featured free synths like SurgeXT, GR-8, Monique, Helm, Podolski, Ocean Swift stuff and especially Vital, I think the big companies really need to up their game.


what I personally like about synths like Phase Plant (Absynth is another good example) is that it doesn't really have an opinion, it doesn't sound like anything other than what you make it sound like. Not talking about the presets, they probably do have an opinion, I haven't checked. But PP is just a large, open sandbox for creating sounds you want to create without it trying to guide you or suggest any particular path. I like that Absynth opens with a default preset that is one sine wave and nothing else, Phase Plant with a blank canvas. It's a brave choice but it leaves you free to explore where and how you want to.
Synths that have a sound and an intention are useful too because they can save you time if how they sound is where you would want to head anyway, if it isn't then it's just annoying as you try and change its mind.
My own preferences only, I'm a bit of a different use case from a composer or musician.


----------



## Pier

emptyvessel said:


> what I personally like about synths like Phase Plant (Absynth is another good example) is that it doesn't really have an opinion, it doesn't sound like anything other than what you make it sound like. Not talking about the presets, they probably do have an opinion, I haven't checked. But PP is just a large, open sandbox for creating sounds you want to create without it trying to guide you or suggest any particular path. I like that Absynth opens with a default preset that is one sine wave and nothing else, Phase Plant with a blank canvas. It's a brave choice but it leaves you free to explore where and how you want to.
> Synths that have a sound and an intention are useful too because they can save you time if how they sound is where you would want to head anyway, if it isn't then it's just annoying as you try and change its mind.
> My own preferences only, I'm a bit of a different use case from a composer or musician.


Totally agree. That's probably the main reason I keep coming back to Zebra after all these years.


----------



## emptyvessel

Pier said:


> Totally agree. That's probably the main reason I keep coming back to Zebra after all these years.


Right! I really must give Zebra a proper go some time, haven't tried it since the very early days and on paper it really sounds like my kind of thing.


----------



## Pier

emptyvessel said:


> Right! I really must give Zebra a proper go some time, haven't tried it since the very early days and on paper it really sounds like my kind of thing.


If you do, definitely spend some time getting acquainted with the comb filter. I neglected it for years and it's so much fun!


----------



## Cepheus

emptyvessel said:


> Right! I really must give Zebra a proper go some time, haven't tried it since the very early days and on paper it really sounds like my kind of thing.


Just entered the Phase Plant realm and I must say it reminds me of Zebra: modules, lanes, cross modulation. Same vibe but different sound though. Hope you will jump on Zebra, I like your work on Lion and the various Arturia synths. Will pick up Suspension and SleepSystem one day.


----------



## emptyvessel

Pier said:


> spend some time getting acquainted with the comb filter


I love comb filters, use them a lot! Put one to use in the Bowed Gong preset I made for the Arturia Prophet VS that just released 



Cepheus said:


> Hope you will jump on Zebra, I like your work on Lion and the various Arturia synths. Will pick up Suspension and SleepSystem one day


thank you so much, I really appreciate it! Hardly ever get feedback on the Lion stuff! Zebra has scratched at the back of my head for years, no idea why I haven't pulled the trigger. I guess by now I just have a lot of big powerhouse synths and only so much time. One day though. I'm sure.


----------



## Marko Cifer

Cepheus said:


> Just entered the Phase Plant realm and I must say it reminds me of Zebra: modules, lanes, cross modulation. Same vibe but different sound though. Hope you will jump on Zebra, I like your work on Lion and the various Arturia synths. Will pick up Suspension and SleepSystem one day.


It's interesting in my case how I almost immediately clicked with Phase Plant, but demoing Zebra 2 a while ago was like running into a brick wall for me - and both seemed very intimidating at a first glance to a newbie like me. One just did not work for me at all, while the other did but I have a lot to learn and explore about it. I'm sure that if I put in the time and effort I could make it work, but I'm just happy to have a playground platform that seems to work for me with Phase Plant. Sort of like an Advanced Sonic Laboratory.

I'll probably take another look at Zebra 2(/3?) some time down the line. Then again, while trying to learn Phase Plant I'm also still chewing through Diva, the Repro duo and Hive 2, alongside a bunch of other synths like Generate, Thorn, Padshop, Massive X, Pigments, stuff from the V Collection and some others.

So, plenty to learn about and experiment with on my existing stuff.

_I say this while contemplating upgrading the V Collection..._



emptyvessel said:


> Phase Plant with a blank canvas.


That's what I appreciate about it too, but it's also what keeps me from fully committing to it. Sometimes I like the more standard architectures and limitations. Blank canvases in powerful tools can be both inviting to almost limitless possibilities and scary or daunting to get started with.


----------



## tressie5

@emptyvessel said, "...and only so much time."

That's my issue right there. As a technical-minded person, I don't mind diving headfirst into Phaseplant's or MSoundFactory's modules to create my own patch; however, smitten by the create music bug with a dash of bipolar for flavor, it sometimes becomes imperative that I get the bulging ideas in my throbbing skull onto a track as quickly as possible before my apartment building gets swallowed up by an errant mudslide.


----------



## Kuusniemi

tressie5 said:


> @emptyvessel said, "...and only so much time."
> 
> That's my issue right there. As a technical-minded person, I don't mind diving headfirst into Phaseplant's or MSoundFactory's modules to create my own patch; however, smitten by the create music bug with a dash of bipolar for flavor, it sometimes becomes imperative that I get the bulging ideas in my throbbing skull onto a track as quickly as possible before my apartment building gets swallowed up by an errant mudslide.


What I try to do is to have separate composing and sound design session. If you have the urge and need to get your ideas out, get them out. Design the sounds later. Or design sounds you'd want to use and the use them once the need to compose comes.

100% of the sounds I've made for my commercial releases stem not from trying to make some particular style or trying to hit a trend; each and every sound I've created for those is a sound I would want to use (and I use them all the time).


----------



## emptyvessel

Marko Cifer said:


> but I have a lot to learn and explore about it


conflicts with:


Marko Cifer said:


> _I say this while contemplating upgrading the V Collection..._


I'm just saying  Seriously though that's quite a list of pretty complex synths, it would take a long time to fully explore and learn what you have already.


Marko Cifer said:


> Blank canvases in powerful tools can be both inviting to almost limitless possibilities and scary or daunting to get started with.


yeah fair enough. For me I find it helps to have template presets, for Phase Plant (and all the complex plugins I use) I have quite a few with a few engines I know I'm likely to use for a given type of sound, a few FX already added running presets I already created. Sure I seldom use them 100% as the template starts but it still saves a bunch of time and it does overcome that blank canvas paralysis.

Also, I separate where possible the sound design stages and the music creation stages. I might spend Sunday morning exploring and making samples, and presets for the plugins (or DAW devices) I like to use a lot. Then when I feel like working on some music I can just pull up raw material I already made.
@tressie5 I feel like these apply to what you've said also. The mudslide issue I'm afraid I'm out of ideas, speed does seem like a good way to go, or a different apartment maybe?

Again, just what works for me. Not everyone is the same and I'm absolutely not trying to preach or say I know best.


----------



## emptyvessel

@Kuusniemi hah snap 


Kuusniemi said:


> 100% of the sounds I've made for my commercial releases stem not from trying to make some particular style or trying to hit a trend; each and every sound I've created for those is a sound I would want to use


Absolutely the way I work and always have, commissions I'll sometimes need to take a different approach but for my own packs for sure this is the way to go.


----------



## Kuusniemi

emptyvessel said:


> @Kuusniemi hah snap
> 
> Absolutely the way I work and always have, commissions I'll sometimes need to take a different approach but for my own packs for sure this is the way to go.


Excatly the reason I love Phase Plant. It doesn't point you to anything, it's all up to you. 

Then again it's so easy to go overboard with PP. Sometimes creating the simple sound is soo much harder than doing something very complex.


----------



## emptyvessel

Kuusniemi said:


> Excatly the reason I love Phase Plant. It doesn't point you to anything, it's all up to you.
> 
> Then again it's so easy to go overboard with PP. Sometimes creating the simple sound is soo much harder than doing something very complex.


so true, some sessions I'll get to something I like then instead of stopping I continue messing with it, adding things, oh just a bit more modulation, bit more, ooh something else, ooh modulate that too. ...half an hour passes...
[modulation intensifies]
...another 15 minutes passes...
Wait, ah, yeah this sounds horrendous. 
Great. :D

People say software doesn't compare to hardware but for $99 you genuinely can accurately simulate the amount of time wasted to make awful noises that you can waste making awful noises with a large, expensive eurorack system! Can't tell the difference in any A/B test I've tried!


----------



## Kuusniemi

emptyvessel said:


> so true, some sessions I'll get to something I like then instead of stopping I continue messing with it, adding things, oh just a bit more modulation, bit more, ooh something else, ooh modulate that too. ...half an hour passes...
> [modulation intensifies]
> ...another 15 minutes passes...
> Wait, ah, yeah this sounds horrendous.
> Great. :D
> 
> People say software doesn't compare to hardware but for $99 you genuinely can accurately simulate the amount of time wasted to make awful noises that you can waste making awful noises with a large, expensive eurorack system! Can't tell the difference in any A/B test I've tried!


If it sounds bad then expensive bad isn't better... :D


----------



## Flintpope

I just re-started my monthly rental of this. Will try out the new gizmos!


----------



## Pier

I've been finally playing a bit with v2. The new additions are great, and while I already knew everything there was from the videos... I'm left a bit disappointed.

Yeah Snap Heap and Multipass now have much improved modulations, but regarding PhasePlant the improvements are not substantial. The UI and UX are improved, but there's nothing new regarding filters, generators, or effects which would have been more interesting.

I'm guessing KiloHearts have been using V2, the free plugins, the $99 deal, etc, as a way to reach a wider audience, but reserving any substantial sound improvements for the future:

- Multisamples
- Better control of the time stretching engine
- Other play modes for the sampler (eg: like the wavetable mode on Bitwig's sampler)
- Sequencer / arp
- Improved effects (eg: the reverb is meh, thank god for the convolution)
- Spectral effects like Vital
- Feedback paths like Massive X
- Other generators like an additive oscillator
- Granular engine


----------



## Pier

I found this website to create color themes for PhasePlant 

https://emgomusic.com/kilocolor/
This will produce a config file you need to copy to a data folder. See this https://youtu.be/5I4Rdg36eKM?t=220 (video for more detail).


----------



## richmwhitfield

I think that hasn't yet been updated to include 2 new colours...according to the Kilohearts discord.






But it certainly creates most of the skins. Also there are quite a few 2.0 skins on the discord as well.


----------



## CATDAD

Just spent the last few days giving Phase Plant a go. What a UI for this kind of synth! Really hits a sweet spot for usability and power which is hard for this kind of modular synth.

The base sound is aggressively sterile, but I think that is not necessarily a bad thing as a source that is to receive heaps of layering, modulation, and FX. As always, you can liven up a sound by introducing a little bit of chaos to many parameters if you really want, or use a different tool for a different job.

Which is to say, the modulation and FX routing is top notch as of V2! You can really do just about anything, especially with the nested Snap Heap and Multipass, being able to do in a single patch what used to require resampling or convoluted routing in-DAW. They were smart in adding most of their standard FX in to the free "Essentials" pack because without it, Phase Plant cost way too much for too little in terms of standard, expected FX chains. It also means more freebies to rope people in. While basic, some of them like the tapestop are actually quite nice to have in such a simple format.

As is, it's already a great product for sound design, but I really hope they keep pushing the boundaries for what Phase Plant can do. I can't help but agree with @Pier that expanding the sampler, spectral effects, and feedback paths would really help make it a one-stop-shop for wild sound shaping. While some people might ask for "analog modeled oscillators" or whatnot, I'm actually not sure how important they'd be here as I'd rather use a different synth altogether for "simple and juicy".


----------



## Wes Mayhall

Pier said:


> - Improved effects (eg: the reverb is meh, thank god for the convolution)


Totally agree on the reverb - it was one of the reasons I didn't get PhasePlant at first. Thank goodness for Valhalla!


----------



## Wes Mayhall

I'm happy to report that, with the new triggering options, I can now do a decent imitation of an Odyssey self-triggered Sample & Hold . All that's missing is a 'lag' control on the Random modulator, and a Keyboard Hold switch. It would also be nice to be able to trigger the Generators ADSR from a modulator e.g. an LFO.

And Kilohearts, for bonus points, how about a quantizer ?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Everytime I see the title of this thread, I hear it set to this song by the Almanac Singers replacing the choral 'Groundhog!!!!!!' refrain.


----------



## richmwhitfield

Interesting video someone posted on the Kilohearts' Discord 

Obviously not as nice as having a warp modulator/generator item, but if you want them you can at least recreate them.


----------



## Pier

Wes Mayhall said:


> It would also be nice to be able to trigger the Generators ADSR from a modulator e.g. an LFO.


I haven't explored this but I think in V2 you can do it?

Envelopes and LFOs in v2 have like an arrow icon. If you click it, it re-triggers. I'm almost certain you should be able to modulate that.



Wes Mayhall said:


> And Kilohearts, for bonus points, how about a quantizer ?


Again, I think this is possible in V2 with the modulation remapper.


----------



## tressie5

I had to look up "quantizer" - constrains control voltages to a specific set of notes. I guess that's one of the differences between Vital and Serum as Vital has a quantizer. I'll give PP's modulation remapper a looksee later.


----------



## richmwhitfield

There's a preset called Wavetable2Melody in the new 2.0 presets, made by Dash Glitch, that demonstrates use of the remap to quantise to pitch. Also this one, based on that, also does -


----------



## Wes Mayhall

Pier said:


> I haven't explored this but I think in V2 you can do it?


The "VCA" envelope is in the Generators section's Output module and it appears it can only be triggered by the keyboard. I'd like to be able to trigger it from an LFO. This would allow the patch to free-run.

Also I can't find a way to constrain the Random modulator's output to a scale (major, minor, etc). I hope I'm wrong and I've just missed it 🙃 .


----------



## richmwhitfield

You need to use the remap mod to constrain to a scale.


----------



## Wes Mayhall

richmwhitfield said:


> You need to use the remap mod to constrain to a scale.


Thanks @richmwhitfield and @Pier for forcing me  to learn how Remapper works. I now have two remaps created and saved - one for a chromatic scale and one for a major scale, just as an exercise.

Adding portamento to a remap? Who knows? Yeah, you can add slopes to the transitions, but you could never vary it in real time. This is why I believe PhasePlant needs a lag modifier.

Thanks again for your help!

P.S. And now I find out those remap's are already in the Factory 'Scale' folders! Doh!!


----------



## Pier

I just found out if you configure macros into snap heap these become available in PhasePlant.






This is great to create your custom effects. Something like a stereo delay with a filter which PhasePlant doesn't have.


----------



## Pier




----------



## rhizomusicosmos

OK, I've jumped on the Phase Plant wagon and Kilohearts have given me a welcome voucher. What a nice bunch they are!

Do you recommend I put that toward Convolver, or pick up one of the content banks?


----------



## Bee_Abney

rhizomusicosmos said:


> OK, I've jumped on the Phase Plant wagon and Kilohearts have given me a welcome voucher. What a nice bunch they are!
> 
> Do you recommend I put that toward Convolver, or pick up one of the content banks?


I don't have Phaseplant, I'm just a curious busy-body; but from what I've gathered haunting Phaseplant discussions, the Kilohearts preset packs are not well-thought of, and nor is their basic reverb, but the convolution reverb is. Venus Theory even uses it for demonstrations on convolution; and he's got a deep voice, and therefore must have good judgement.


----------



## richmwhitfield

Nice 👍

I personally, would get convolver. I am not a huge preset user, but if you are then you might want some more. You could even get the subscription for a month to check out convolver and all the presets. You'd then be better placed to make an informed decision.

I think the presets are a mixed bag. Depending on what sort of music you create then they will be more/less useful. 

The default reverb can be made to sound decent, but takes a little fiddling and the use of snap heap. If you haven't picked up snap heap, then do so as it's free currently.


rhizomusicosmos said:


> OK, I've jumped on the Phase Plant wagon and Kilohearts have given me a welcome voucher. What a nice bunch they are!
> 
> Do you recommend I put that toward Convolver, or pick up one of the content banks?


----------



## tressie5

It's actually interesting to see people put a lot of weight on a synth's reverb. I was under the impression that users didn't care if a synth even had a reverb as they used external ones anyway. I, myself, do use a synth's reverb and delays from time to time, but generally though, I prefer external.


----------



## Bee_Abney

tressie5 said:


> It's actually interesting to see people put a lot of weight on a synth's reverb. I was under the impression that users didn't care if a synth even had a reverb as they used external ones anyway. I, myself, do use a synth's reverb and delays from time to time, but generally though, I prefer external.


The internal reverb is typically used as a sound design tool, together with internal modulation of that reverb. External reverb might be used for mixing in context in addition.

If you are designing (or tweaking) a patch for a specific context, you might use all sorts of external effects in place of internal ones.


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't have Phaseplant, I'm just a curious busy-body; but from what I've gathered haunting Phaseplant discussions, the Kilohearts preset packs are not well-thought of, and nor is their basic reverb, but the convolution reverb is. Venus Theory even uses it for demonstrations on convolution; and he's got a deep voice, and therefore must have good judgement.


Thanks! I'll take that as a vote for Convolver . . . and Cameron.


----------



## Pier

rhizomusicosmos said:


> Do you recommend I put that toward Convolver, or pick up one of the content banks?


Definitely go with Convolver.


----------



## Pier

tressie5 said:


> It's actually interesting to see people put a lot of weight on a synth's reverb. I was under the impression that users didn't care if a synth even had a reverb as they used external ones anyway. I, myself, do use a synth's reverb and delays from time to time, but generally though, I prefer external.


Sure, external reverbs are better, but being able to recall an almost full sound from a preset has its advantages too.


----------



## Kuusniemi

+1 for the Convolver.


----------



## rhizomusicosmos

Convolver it is by unanimous verdict! Thanks everyone.


----------



## José Herring

tressie5 said:


> It's actually interesting to see people put a lot of weight on a synth's reverb. I was under the impression that users didn't care if a synth even had a reverb as they used external ones anyway. I, myself, do use a synth's reverb and delays from time to time, but generally though, I prefer external.


Use it as part of the sound. I will often use the synths reverb to put the synth in a resonating type body. That's why I like the convolution reverb on Phaseplant now. An electronic sound does natural come in some sort of resonating body so you can use the built in synth verb for that. Then use your standard external verbs for the room and hall.


----------



## richmwhitfield




----------



## Bee_Abney

This is a brief three-minute NAMM demonstration on the new features in Phaseplant 2.0, Snapheap and Multipass. I think these have all been covered on this thread, but I found it quite useful as an overview and reminder.


----------



## tressie5

Sigh. The fancier these synths get, the more guilt I feel!


----------



## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> This is a brief three-minute NAMM demonstration on the new features in Phaseplant 2.0, Snapheap and Multipass. I think these have all been covered on this thread, but I found it quite useful as an overview and reminder.



THX for this ! Much like feeling after DATABROTH YT Vid _ PP fries my brain ! 🤯
Back to Omnibus and magical list of top-tier 3rd Pty expansions.


----------



## Alchemedia

sostenuto said:


> THX for this ! Much like feeling after DATABROTH YT Vid _ PP fries my brain ! 🤯
> Back to Omnibus and magical list of top-tier 3rd Pty expansions.



All your Neuro Bass are belong to us!


----------



## Wes Mayhall

richmwhitfield said:


>



There's one caution with the method shown here - the output of the Audio Follower is the full-wave rectified modulating signal, filtered according to the Attack and Release settings. It works like an Envelope Follower.

edit: added screen capture of 20Hz sine modulating 10Hz square wave's level. Only the first 100mSec of the square wave's high state are show.


----------



## Pier




----------



## Pier




----------



## sostenuto

Pier said:


>



Revisiting after long demo period with HALion 6. Even got tutorials, but seems far more complex than expected. Also, perhaps more capable than needed.

THX for this YT review !


----------



## Wes Mayhall

"The Only Synth You Need" Pfft. I need them all.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Phaseplant is half price at VST Buzz at the moment with just thirteen days and nine hours left to go.









50% off "Phase Plant" by Kilohearts


With a unique combination of top-quality processing, creative freedom, and an intuitive workflow, Phaseplant is a sound designer’s softsynth dream come true!




vstbuzz.com


----------



## Alchemedia

Wes Mayhall said:


> "The Only Synth You Need" Pfft. I need them all.


"It's just a phase--you'll get over it." Said no VI-C member ever.


----------



## sostenuto

Sonokinetic could do a new softsynth and name it _ PHRASE PLANT !! 🤪


----------



## Pier

Alchemedia said:


> "It's just a phase--you'll get over it." Said no VI-C member ever.


----------



## Nimrod7

Can anyone with an Intel Mac / Monterey combo check if PhasePlant is spiking like crazy?

A simple test is just go in the keys presets, and play any 5-6 notes chord. 
I have a quite powerful machine, but still spikes and audio stutters. 

I am on version 2.0.6


----------



## R. Naroth

this @venustheory video pushed me over the edge.. Also upgraded my MBP 5.1 to a Mac Studio a few months ago. Finally stepping out of the Zebra world.


----------



## Pier

@R. Naroth things have changed a bit since that video was released.

KH now offers most of their basic effects for free so you'd only need to get PhasePlant itself and probably also the convolution reverb since the algorithmic one is not great.

If you're going to buy it at full price maybe the subscription is the better option.

PhasePlant + convolution = $238

2 years of the subscription = $240 (paying $10 monthly).

After those 2 years you'll get $200 back to spend in the KH store and during those 2 years you'll have access to literally everything KH offers (currently or in the future). You'll also be able to pause your subscription for a couple of months if you're working on something else or... life gets in the way.

The drawback is that of course after two years you'll lose about $40 compared to buying everything upfront.


----------



## Benbln

*Phaseplant is 50% off right now on Pluginboutique


----------



## sostenuto

Benbln said:


> *Phaseplant is 50% off right now on Pluginboutique


Also _ PP + Convolver _ @ PB @ $138. 🤷🏻‍♂️

PP _ Subscription for 12 mos remains solid option __ imho_


----------



## R. Naroth

Pier said:


> @R. Naroth things have changed a bit since that video was released.
> 
> KH now offers most of their basic effects for free so you'd only need to get PhasePlant itself and probably also the convolution reverb since the algorithmic one is not great.
> 
> If you're going to buy it at full price maybe the subscription is the better option.
> 
> PhasePlant + convolution = $238
> 
> 2 years of the subscription = $240 (paying $10 monthly).
> 
> After those 2 years you'll get $200 back to spend in the KH store and during those 2 years you'll have access to literally everything KH offers (currently or in the future). You'll also be able to pause your subscription for a couple of months if you're working on something else or... life gets in the way.
> 
> The drawback is that of course after two years you'll lose about $40 compared to buying everything upfront.


Thanks @Pier I should have looked closer.. And, it is also on sale for 50% (Thanks @Benbln)..
Any case, I took the $10 subscription. Hopefully that will give me an idea of the full capabilities. If this is the synth that will scratch that itch until Zebra 3 is out..  I will just buy it.


----------



## zzz00m

When I have an itch to dig into a synth other than an analog emulation (which I'm quite fond of), I cannot think of anything that I would rather reach for first than Phase Plant. I agree with all of the positive reviews!


----------



## Pier

sostenuto said:


> Also _ PP + Convolver _ @ PB @ $138. 🤷🏻‍♂️
> Subscription for 12 mos remains solid option __ imho_


One thing to consider is that the cash you get back from the subscription cannot be used on deals. It only goes to full price licenses at the KH store.


----------



## Living Fossil

sostenuto said:


> Also _ PP + Convolver _ @ PB @ $138. 🤷🏻‍♂️
> Subscription for 12 mos remains solid option __ imho_


Do you – or somebody else (@Pier  ) – know what is _*not*_ included in the version at Pluginboutique?
(besides from Convolver, Faturator & the Slice EQ)


----------



## Crowe

Pier said:


> One thing to consider is that the cash you get back from the subscription cannot be used on deals. It only goes to full price licenses at the KH store.


I think that's kind of ok though. It's basically just Rent-To-Own, which is generally a 'full price' kind of deal. I happily paid it for Serum and I'm happily paying it for the Ultimate Bundle. It's worth it, anyway.


----------



## Pier

Living Fossil said:


> Do you – or somebody else (@Pier  ) – know what is _*not*_ included in the version at Pluginboutique?
> (besides from Convolver, Faturator & the Slice EQ)


You only get PhasePlant. Of course the free KH effects are already free for anyone.

The premium stuff (convolver, advanced EQs, etc) is extra. Basically everything in this image except PP:







Edit:

This image from PB makes it more clear


----------



## Akoustecx

Pier said:


> You only get PhasePlant. Of course the free KH effects are already free for anyone.
> 
> The premium stuff (convolver, advanced EQs, etc) is extra. Basically everything in this image except PP:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit:
> 
> This image from PB makes it more clear


Maybe I've misunderstood, but I thought nothing was entirely free from Kilohearts now, with you needing to buy at least the £20 Snapheap host?


----------



## Pier

I should say that Snap Heap is also a must when using PhasePlant because the effects are really building blocks.

For example, the regular delay is not stereo. Of course it's trivial to create a Snap Heap stereo delay preset with filters etc that you can recall and control from macros. Without Snap Heap it would be super tedious to have to create everything from scratch whenever you want a stereo delay.


----------



## Crowe

Akoustecx said:


> Maybe I've misunderstood, but I thought nothing was entirely free from Kilohearts now, with you needing to buy at least the £20 Snapheap host?


Snapheap is a multi-effect host. You can use everything individually, or insert it into Snapheap. Multipass is basically the evolved version of that.


----------



## Pier

Akoustecx said:


> Maybe I've misunderstood, but I thought nothing was entirely free from Kilohearts now, with you needing to buy at least the £20 Snapheap host?


Hmmm AFAIK the free effects are free. You can use those as inserts in your DAW. You don't need Snap Heap.


----------



## CATDAD

Akoustecx said:


> Maybe I've misunderstood, but I thought nothing was entirely free from Kilohearts now, with you needing to buy at least the £20 Snapheap host?


Snap Heap is just their FX rack. It's nice to have, but not necessary to use most of their FX, including use inside Phase Plant.


----------



## Zedcars

I’m sure no-one else cares but I found out something really cool yesterday; Kilohearts live really close to me — just 1/2 hour drive away. 

Edit: It’s Loopmasters who live near me. How the hell I mixed them up with Kilohearts I have no idea…


----------



## zzz00m

Pier said:


> Hmmm AFAIK the free effects are free. You can use those as inserts in your DAW. You don't need Snap Heap.


Correct, the Kilohearts essentials are available for all. They will show up as regular plugin effects for your DAW. Snap Heap is a host plugin that allows you to combine the Kilohearts plugins in creative ways similar to an FX chain, but better. Snap Heap can be used in the Phase Plant FX section, or externally as a regular plugin. It's totally optional.


----------



## Akoustecx

Fair enough, I've misunderstood something I read a while ago about the recent changes. There is indeed a completely free bundle. Ignore me and carry on!


----------



## KEM

Zedcars said:


> I’m sure no-one else cares but I found out something really cool yesterday; Kilohearts live really close to me — just 1/2 hour drive away.



You live in Sweden?


----------



## sostenuto

Zedcars said:


> I’m sure no-one else cares but I found out something really cool yesterday; Kilohearts live really close to me — just 1/2 hour drive away.


Maybe go over and make some friends _ tell 'em you brag about PP 24/7 on VI-C Forums. Get some freebies !


----------



## Pier

Zedcars said:


> I’m sure no-one else cares but I found out something really cool yesterday; Kilohearts live really close to me — just 1/2 hour drive away.


Go to their offices and claim your super neighbor discount!


----------



## Zedcars

KEM said:


> You live in Sweden?


The address said Eastbourne.

Edit: I just checked again and to my utter embarrassment it isn’t Kilohearts after all…it’s Loopmasters! 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Zedcars

Pier said:


> Go to their offices and claim your super neighbor discount!


I would but I messed up…and on the internet too…see above 🤦‍♂️

Sorry to interrupt the discussion with my idiocy…


----------



## KEM

Zedcars said:


> The address said Eastbourne.
> 
> Edit: I just checked again and to my utter embarrassment it isn’t Kilohearts after all…it’s Loopmasters! 🤦‍♂️



I was about to be very jealous, all these people get to live in Sweden and I’m stuck in St. Louis, Missouri. Just doesn’t sit right with me…


----------



## Alchemedia

KEM said:


> I was about to be very jealous, all these people get to live in Sweden and I’m stuck in St. Louis, Missouri. Just doesn’t sit right with me…


You haven't lived until you've tried Surströmming.


----------



## Kuusniemi

Alchemedia said:


> You haven't lived until you've tried Surströmming.


I'll see your surströmming and raise you with mämmi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mämmi


----------



## Living Fossil

Regarding Phase Plant:

I've played around a bit with the demo.
My impression is that it's a great synth if someone really dives into its soundsculpting possibilities.
The routing isn't really self explaining (where are the "lanes" that can be adressed as modulation source??).
And without buying additional soundpacks, the sounds that come with the synth are seriously underwhelming.

So, after one evening with it, it leaves not very attracted.


----------



## richmwhitfield

Modulation sources are in the bottom section






It does say 'MODULATORS' but it is pretty faint and very miss-able.

When you hover over the left hand side of the modulator section, you should get a little 'popup' dashed outlined box






Left click on that and you will be shown the available modulators. 

There are other modulation sources for things like audiorate modulation, but the bottom section is the place for LFOs and envelopes etc.


----------



## Pier

Living Fossil said:


> Regarding Phase Plant:
> 
> I've played around a bit with the demo.
> My impression is that it's a great synth if someone really dives into its soundsculpting possibilities.
> The routing isn't really self explaining (where are the "lanes" that can be adressed as modulation source??).
> And without buying additional soundpacks, the sounds that come with the synth are seriously underwhelming.
> 
> So, after one evening with it, it leaves not very attracted.


It's a bit like Zebra in this regard. The more you put into it, the more you get in return. Totally different sound than Zebra though.

Have you tried the non-linear filter? It can only be added in the effects lanes. These by default are receiving stereo from the generators on the left but can be made polyphonic with the POLY button at the top.

What do you mean with "lanes that can be addressed as modulation source"?


----------



## zzz00m

This guy has a 3-part YouTube series on Phase Plant. They were made prior to v2, so they don't cover any of the new V2 enhanced features. This is part #2 on the Modulators, but it is still a good dive into the modulation design of Phase Plant. Part #1 covers the Generators, and Part #3 covers the FX section.


----------



## Living Fossil

Pier said:


> It's a bit like Zebra in this regard. The more you put into it, the more you get in return. Totally different sound than Zebra though.


I'm sure you're right... the problem is that I'm not sure how much time ressources i'm able (and willing) to spend on another synth. What sets it apart (and is appealing) not only from Zebra but also from other synths I use is the ability to use samples.
I guess I will experiment a bit more with it in the remaining 9 demo days.

(Zebra, while not having samples offers lots of opportunities when used as effect [Zebrify].



Pier said:


> Have you tried the non-linear filter? It can only be added in the effects lanes. These by default are receiving stereo from the generators on the left but can be made polyphonic with the POLY button at the top.


Thanks, will try it out.



Pier said:


> What do you mean with "lanes that can be addressed as modulation source"?


I mixed up the term "lane" with "slot"...I couldn't assign them, but I will try again 
(see the attached screenshot)


----------



## dyross

I just picked this up and am loving using it. I find it a great way to learn about sound design as you can do just about anything. 

I’ve found the patches, especially in the Tom Wolf sound set, to be very impressive and deep, each with some very cool macros.


----------



## Pier

Living Fossil said:


> I mixed up the term "lane" with "slot"...I couldn't assign them, but I will try again
> (see the attached screenshot)


Ah I see you want to control parameters from your DAW's automation?

Personally I'd do that via the macros which are available to the DAW by default.


----------



## Living Fossil

Pier said:


> Ah I see you want to control parameters from your DAW's automation?


I wanted to assign some controls (like LFOs etc) to some parameters (like start of of the loop in a sample). But slots were all that PhPl offered... But I guess I will have to look into the manual...


----------



## Flintpope

Anybody mind a full blown self-centred plug for my Phaseplant Soundpack? I will await replies as I know there can be sensitivities..


----------



## Flintpope

Feck it eh? https://flintpope.net/phaseplant/


----------



## Pier

Living Fossil said:


> I wanted to assign some controls (like LFOs etc) to some parameters (like start of of the loop in a sample). But slots were all that PhPl offered... But I guess I will have to look into the manual...


No need for the manual!

Just click on the orange plus sign from the modulation sources (LFO, Env, etc) and the available mod targets will appear as more orange plus signs across the UI. Then you click and drag on the target to determine how much modulation you want.






AFAIK there's no way to do it the other way around (select the modulation source from the mod target).

Sometimes you need to hover with the mouse to discover stuff. For example, the orange plus sign won't appear in the mod wheel on the top left unless the mouse is over it.


----------



## Alchemedia

Living Fossil said:


> Regarding Phase Plant:
> 
> I've played around a bit with the demo.
> My impression is that it's a great synth if someone really dives into its soundsculpting possibilities.
> The routing isn't really self explaining (where are the "lanes" that can be adressed as modulation source??).
> And without buying additional soundpacks, the sounds that come with the synth are seriously underwhelming.
> 
> So, after one evening with it, it leaves not very attracted.



I agree.


----------



## venustheory

R. Naroth said:


> this @venustheory video pushed me over the edge.. Also upgraded my MBP 5.1 to a Mac Studio a few months ago. Finally stepping out of the Zebra world.



Glad to be of service haha.

V2.0 of Phaseplant is insane as well. The KHS folks continue to outdo themselves and the new update (esp. with what's now possible in snapheap/multipass) by far make this one of the most powerful synthesizers on the market that is still at least relatively easy to pick up and work with. 

Of course there are still some features I'd like to see added, but my understanding is that many of them are 'in the realm of possibility' so it's only going to get even more ridiculous as time goes on.

Combined with a sampler workhorse (insert Falcon shilling here) it's a damn hard synth to beat. I do still like to have a 'character' synth on-hand (Dune 3 is my usual go-to) to compliment the more digital nature of PhasePlant but it's an absolute unit of a synth and is probably the ultimate bread and butter tool when combined with the rest of their snapins and tools.

Happy noisemaking with it!


----------



## R. Naroth

venustheory said:


> Glad to be of service haha.
> 
> V2.0 of Phaseplant is insane as well. The KHS folks continue to outdo themselves and the new update (esp. with what's now possible in snapheap/multipass) by far make this one of the most powerful synthesizers on the market that is still at least relatively easy to pick up and work with.
> 
> Of course there are still some features I'd like to see added, but my understanding is that many of them are 'in the realm of possibility' so it's only going to get even more ridiculous as time goes on.
> 
> Combined with a sampler workhorse (insert Falcon shilling here) it's a damn hard synth to beat. I do still like to have a 'character' synth on-hand (Dune 3 is my usual go-to) to compliment the more digital nature of PhasePlant but it's an absolute unit of a synth and is probably the ultimate bread and butter tool when combined with the rest of their snapins and tools.
> 
> Happy noisemaking with it!


I played around with Phaseplant for a bit.. the UI is very intuitive. As you said, with this architecture, the wishes are definitely in the realm of possibility. I really miss a built-in step sequencer… The analog generators sound a bit thin compared to Zebra and Dune. The manual leaves much to be desired, which is ok because we have YouTube 😊

But having a synth like this opens up so many possibilities. A big platter of generators, the endless modulations and routing. Goodness.


----------



## Akoustecx

R. Naroth said:


> I played around with Phaseplant for a bit.. the UI is very intuitive. As you said, with this architecture, the wishes are definitely in the realm of possibility. I really miss a built-in step sequencer… The analog generators sound a bit thin compared to Zebra and Dune. The manual leaves much to be desired, which is ok because we have YouTube 😊
> 
> But having a synth like this opens up so many possibilities. A big platter of generators, the endless modulations and routing. Goodness.


A kiss of AM and FM from a second Analog Generator followed by the Non Linear Filter goes a long way to getting a richer, more analog sound with very little effort. Alternatively you can use an LFO to simulate Oscillator Drift.
Phase Plant, along with almost all the snapins, offer no character out of the box, but the flexibility allows you to create an effectively infinite number of characterful flavours, provided you can look past the utilitarian nature of the individual components.


----------



## Pier

Akoustecx said:


> A kiss of AM and FM from a second Analog Generator followed by the Non Linear Filter goes a long way to getting a richer, more analog sound with very little effort. Alternatively you can use an LFO to simulate Oscillator Drift.
> Phase Plant, along with almost all the snapins, offer no character out of the box, but the flexibility allows you to create an effectively infinite number of characterful flavours, provided you can look past the utilitarian nature of the individual components.


I agree although U-He synths have a _je ne sais quoi_ for making basses that I always miss in other synths. It's very weird. It's like the fundamental harmonic has a boost in the lower octaves or something.

I'm pretty sure this is intentional by @u-he. Otherwise why are most (all?) U-He synths tuned an octave lower by default?

I will try to post a demo in the weekend.


----------



## Akoustecx

Pier said:


> I agree although U-He synths have a _je ne sais quoi_ for making basses that I always miss in other synths. It's very weird. It's like the fundamental harmonic has a boost in the lower octaves or something.
> 
> I'm pretty sure this is intentional by @u-he. Otherwise why are most (all?) U-He synths tuned an octave lower by default?
> 
> I will try to post a demo in the weekend.


Unfortunately, I can't comment, as I don't have anything by U-He. I live in hope that NI will have another NKS Partners sale when I'm not entirely brassic!


----------



## zzz00m

R. Naroth said:


> The analog generators sound a bit thin compared to Zebra and Dune.


I run across this type of forum comment regarding the oscillators in certain synths form time to time. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly "thin" means in this context?


----------



## Akoustecx

zzz00m said:


> I run across this type of forum comment regarding the oscillators in certain synths form time to time. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly "thin" means in this context?


My guess is that it is normally used to describe ocillators that output a pure, or very close to pure fundamental, which is certainly the case in PP.


----------



## zzz00m

Akoustecx said:


> My guess is that it is normally used to describe ocillators that output a pure, or very close to pure fundamental, which is certainly the case in PP.


I understand. My comment was intended to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. Isn't a pure fundamental the most desirable one? Calling one synth's oscillator thin compared to another synth's oscillator tells me that the other one probably wasn't compared using a level sonic playing field...


----------



## Akoustecx

zzz00m said:


> I understand. My comment was intended to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. Isn't a pure fundamental the most desirable one? Calling one synth's oscillator thin compared to another synth's oscillator tells me that the other one probably wasn't compared using a level sonic playing field...


Could be, or perhaps he's just not partial to a fundamental.
Sorry, I'll get my coat.


----------



## Dirtgrain

R. Naroth said:


> I played around with Phaseplant for a bit.. the UI is very intuitive.


Agreed. Of all the soft synths I have used, the new Phase Plant is my favorite for assigning modulators to parameters--and it is also easier to see what is modulated by what in presets.


----------



## zzz00m

R. Naroth said:


> But having a synth like this opens up so many possibilities. A big platter of generators, the endless modulations and routing. Goodness.


Absolutely!


----------



## Pier

New device from KHs









Kilohearts | Channel Mixer


Precise control over stereo content can be very useful. Phase inversion, swapping left and right, and various mid/side operations are among the many uses of Channel Mixer. Make sure to check out the presets of this little utility Snapin to get a good understanding of what it's capable of.




kilohearts.com


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> New device from KHs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kilohearts | Channel Mixer
> 
> 
> Precise control over stereo content can be very useful. Phase inversion, swapping left and right, and various mid/side operations are among the many uses of Channel Mixer. Make sure to check out the presets of this little utility Snapin to get a good understanding of what it's capable of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kilohearts.com


Nifty. And free.


----------



## Crowe

Simple and useful.

Sometimes, I feel like Kilohearts and Hornet should just join forces. They'd be unstoppable.


----------



## Pier

PhasePlant needs more features (multisampling, granular, sequencer, etc) but it's definitely on the right path.

Personally I think Kilohearts also need to invest further on DSP. Better reverb, better filters, better distortion, etc.


----------



## Bee_Abney

It's quite a small, young team, I think. So moving in the right direction is a positive sign; hopefully they'll get there.


----------



## sostenuto

Crowe said:


> Simple and useful.
> 
> Sometimes, I feel like Kilohearts and Hornet should just join forces. They'd be unstoppable.


' _*K & H _ Quality @ -70%* _' 💞


----------



## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> ' _*K & H _ Quality @ -70%* _' 💞


I love the Hornet sales! But there marketing doesn't do anything to diminish the quality of their plugins, which do seem to be rather good. I only have a couple; but they do what they say they will do, and do it well.


----------



## Technostica

Bee_Abney said:


> I love the Hornet sales! But there marketing doesn't do anything to diminish the quality of their plugins, which do seem to be rather good.


I was surprised to see that Sesame Street are making plugins or did Hornet ask Lego to design their website?


----------



## Nimrod7

Hey folks,
Anyone is experiencing spikes with PhasePlant (Logic, Intel-mac, Monterey)?
It's really bad, here is a video demonstrating the issue (audio have been lowered to protect your speakers):


----------



## zzz00m

Nimrod7 said:


> Hey folks,
> Anyone is experiencing spikes with PhasePlant (Logic, Intel-mac, Monterey)?
> It's really bad, here is a video demonstrating the issue (audio have been lowered to protect your speakers):



Not on Mac here, but that sounds like audio breakup due to CPU overload. Did you try increasing your audio buffer size? That should give your CPU more breathing room.

Phase Plant can be CPU demanding, depending on patch design, and the modular nature of that synth allows a patch to be as big and heavy as one dares to try! You could try reducing or disabling some elements in that patch.

Edit: I also have that same preset by Solidtrax, "Double Story". I noticed it was easily using 50% of my CPU, so I took a deeper look. In the second (lower) group in the Generators section, unison 3x is enabled for both analog oscillators there. Turning them up to 8x unison caused my CPU to overload. Turning unison off completely dropped the CPU usage way down. Try adjusting that.


----------



## Nimrod7

zzz00m said:


> Not on Mac here, but that sounds like audio breakup due to CPU overload. Did you try increasing your audio buffer size? That should give your CPU more breathing room.
> 
> Phase Plant can be CPU demanding, depending on patch design, and the modular nature of that synth allows a patch to be as big and heavy as one dares to try! You could try reducing or disabling some elements in that patch.
> 
> Edit: I also have that same preset by Solidtrax, "Double Story". I noticed it was easily using 50% of my CPU, so I took a deeper look. In the second (lower) group in the Generators section, unison 3x is enabled for both analog oscillators there. Turning them up to 8x unison caused my CPU to overload. Turning unison off completely dropped the CPU usage way down. Try adjusting that.


Thanks for checking, much appreciated!

Its a 16 core processor, on a quite powerful machine (however it seems like only one is used). 

It's happening in all the presets, some trigger that overload with 3-4 voices some others with 5-6, but they always trigger it. 

It's the only synth that I have seen struggling, on that machine. 

I will play with the buffer size tomorrow, thanks for that suggestion!


----------



## zzz00m

Nimrod7 said:


> Thanks for checking, much appreciated!
> 
> Its a 16 core processor, on a quite powerful machine (however it seems like only one is used).
> 
> It's happening in all the presets, some trigger that overload with 3-4 voices some others with 5-6, but they always trigger it.
> 
> It's the only synth that I have seen struggling, on that machine.
> 
> I will play with the buffer size tomorrow, thanks for that suggestion!


Did you happen to catch my comment regarding "Unison"? That is what's driving up the CPU usage in that patch. It's not the the fault of the synth, it's the number of voices played, multiplied by the unison setting in that patch. Pretty much any modern synthesizer is capable of overloading a CPU in that manner when using a lot of unison voices.

To put it simply, the effect of unison means multiplying the signal which is being produced by the oscillator. This is a frequent cause of CPU hogging behavior. I noticed a big jump in CPU using a performance monitor as I played this patch with more notes polyphonically. Each note played is multiplied by the unison multiplier, and can add up dramatically causing CPU spikes. Imagine this: each note played triggers 2 analog oscillators in the lower group that are each multiplied by x3. That means each note played in the lower group requites 6 voices, so if you play 5-6 notes simultaneously, the synth is using 30-36 voices in the lower group alone! Then factor in the 2 non-unison analog oscillators in the upper group for an additional 10-12 voices. So 40-48 voices total, plus modulations and effects.

So yes, definitely increase your buffer size if that spike is happening with all of the presets. That will give the CPU more time to fill the audio output buffer. Those dropouts occur when the demand is too high on the CPU and it's unable to keep the buffer full in real-time.


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## richmwhitfield

I think also the phase modulation/audio rate modulation plays a part in the CPU usage of that preset.


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## zzz00m

richmwhitfield said:


> I think also the phase modulation/audio rate modulation plays a part in the CPU usage of that preset.


That audio rate modulation plays a big part as well. Removing either that or the unison from that patch drops the relative CPU usage here down by about 50%.

That is a very nice patch though!

The bottom line is that with these new synths with a lot of power, you need a strong computer to fully realize their potential! The number of cores that you are running does not matter as much as the clock speed of your CPU.


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## Nimrod7

zzz00m said:


> Did you happen to catch my comment regarding "Unison"?


Yep, and I did another test.

PHASEPLANT: Started from Init, Pure Analog Osc, as is, just a bit of release to raise the number of voices, played a 4 key chord repeatedly. Used 25% of the CPU.

REPRO-5 (which my understanding is that is one of the most demanding emulations) Same as above, same midi file. Used around 30% of the CPU.

SERUM (also not an emulation): Same test, barely moved the CPU.

My understanding is that Phaseplant is not an emulation. A pure oscillator with ≈12-15 voices shouldn't consume the 25% of a 3.2 GHz 16-Core Xeon W (W-3245).

RePro-5 which is an emulation consumes just a tiny mark more.

Serum, which I consider being just a wavetable synth as PhasePlant just consumes a tiny mark (around 3-4%).


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## zzz00m

Nimrod7 said:


> Yep, and I did another test.
> 
> PHASEPLANT: Started from Init, Pure Analog Osc, as is, just a bit of release to raise the number of voices, played a 4 key chord repeatedly. Used 25% of the CPU.
> 
> REPRO-5 (which my understanding is that is one of the most demanding emulations) Same as above, same midi file. Used around 30% of the CPU.
> 
> SERUM (also not an emulation): Same test, barely moved the CPU.
> 
> My understanding is that Phaseplant is not an emulation. A pure oscillator with ≈12-15 voices shouldn't consume the 25% of a 3.2 GHz 16-Core Xeon W (W-3245).
> 
> RePro-5 which is an emulation consumes just a tiny mark more.
> 
> Serum, which I consider being just a wavetable synth as PhasePlant just consumes a tiny mark (around 3-4%).


You still haven't mentioned what audio buffer size you are using.


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## Nimrod7

zzz00m said:


> You still haven't mentioned what audio buffer size you are using.


256 but tested also with 512

Buffer should not be relevant since it’s tested against numerous other plugins. If the buffer was the issue they should all be stuttering and overloading the CPU not just phaseplant


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## zzz00m

Nimrod7 said:


> 256 but tested also with 512
> 
> Buffer should not be relevant since it’s tested against numerous other plugins. If the buffer was the issue they should all be stuttering and overloading the CPU not just phaseplant


Good info! I was not being critical, just attempting to drill down to why you might be having performance issues with Phase Plant, so that maybe I could provide helpful suggestions.

I also normally run with a buffer of 256, at 48KHz. Using ASIO with a Scarlett 2i2 3rd gen.

Your Xeon CPU is more powerful and slightly newer than my Core i5-9600k, which is 6-cores at 3.7GHz base, with up to 4.6GHz Turbo. But I don't seem to have any issue running a single instance of any VSTi synth, unless I max out the unison, polyphony, or other demanding features to crazy high levels.

Other modern synths that I have that also run fine here are Repro 5, Pigments 3, Massive X, and Vital Pro. One quirk that I noticed with Vital is that the CPU runs much higher when the synth UI is visible. If I close the UI and continue to play, the CPU usage drops a lot. I can also see my Nvidia GPU taking a bit of the load when these synth UIs are open. So perhaps graphics is a factor?

Edit: Just took another look at the same Phase Plant patch as before, and my GPU usage is running about 30-35% at the same time as my CPU is running 40-50%. But no overloads or crackles...


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## Pier

Nimrod7 said:


> Yep, and I did another test.
> 
> PHASEPLANT: Started from Init, Pure Analog Osc, as is, just a bit of release to raise the number of voices, played a 4 key chord repeatedly. Used 25% of the CPU.
> 
> REPRO-5 (which my understanding is that is one of the most demanding emulations) Same as above, same midi file. Used around 30% of the CPU.
> 
> SERUM (also not an emulation): Same test, barely moved the CPU.
> 
> My understanding is that Phaseplant is not an emulation. A pure oscillator with ≈12-15 voices shouldn't consume the 25% of a 3.2 GHz 16-Core Xeon W (W-3245).
> 
> RePro-5 which is an emulation consumes just a tiny mark more.
> 
> Serum, which I consider being just a wavetable synth as PhasePlant just consumes a tiny mark (around 3-4%).


What CPU model do you have?


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## Nimrod7

zzz00m said:


> Good info! I was not being critical, just attempting to drill down to why you might be having performance issues with Phase Plant, so that maybe I could provide helpful suggestions.


Not taken at all!



> Your Xeon CPU is more powerful and slightly newer than my Core i5-9600k, which is 6-cores at 3.7GHz base, with up to 4.6GHz Turbo. But I don't seem to have any issue running a single instance of any VSTi synth,
> 
> Just took another look at the same Phase Plant patch as before, and my GPU usage is running about 30-35% at the same time as my CPU is running 40-50%. But no overloads or crackles.



Yes, that's what I was looking for, thanks for checking again! 
Definitely something is off here. 



Pier said:


> What CPU model do you have?


3.2 GHz 16-Core Xeon W (W-3245)


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## zvenx

Nimrod7 said:


> Hey folks,
> Anyone is experiencing spikes with PhasePlant (Logic, Intel-mac, Monterey)?
> It's really bad, here is a video demonstrating the issue (audio have been lowered to protect your speakers):



yep i get them all the time in Cubase MacIntel 11.7...
I dn't recall them being nearly as bad before PP v2.
But I use a very small buffer size... That yours is happening even at 256 is surprising (I still am in shock that people can use such large buffer sizes... you are probably on a lynx or rme?, and even then...
rsp


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## Pier

Nimrod7 said:


> 3.2 GHz 16-Core Xeon W (W-3245)


I don't know man. Sounds like something else is happening.

I did your test and played a 6 note chord with just an analog oscillator. My CPU didn't even flinch:






From that graph you can't even see when I played those chords...

Then I loaded the Double Story preset. The CPU overall didn't even flinch with playing 6 note chords. If I look at the cores, I can see a peak in a core consuming about 30% when the chord starts playing but it lowers as the notes go on.

Look at the first core:






Maybe my AMD is much more powerful than your Xeon but I'd be very surprised if it was that much.

Couldn't it be a Logic issue? Have you tried with another DAW? You could try with Reaper which is free to download.


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## Nimrod7

Pier said:


> Couldn't it be a Logic issue? Have you tried with another DAW? You could try with Reaper which is free to download.


Thanks @Pier for testing. Much appreciated. 
@zvenx mentioned that he tested on Intel-Mac / Cubase, and had spikes. 

I also think that this started happening after the 2.0 update. 

I will definitely test more DAW / AU-VST versions, 
I will try also to downgrade to 1.xxx to check if the issue is still there.


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## Pier

Nimrod7 said:


> I also think that this started happening after the 2.0 update.


I'm using the latest version. Just updated before doing the tests.

Personally, I didn't notice any difference in performance from v1 to v2 but I don't check that religiously.


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## zzz00m

Pier said:


> Then I loaded the Double Story preset. The CPU overall didn't even flinch with playing 6 note chords. If I look at the cores, _*I can see a peak in a core consuming about 30%*_ when the chord starts playing but it lowers as the notes go on.


In my experience, if a single CPU core gets hit hard, the audio can break up even when the other cores are idling.

I think it may have something to do with the DSP algorithms in the instrument using a single thread. Multiple effect plugins can be load balanced across multiple cores, as each FX plugin can run its own thread, but I think that is a big challenge for a single VSTi instrument to be multi-threaded.


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## Pier

zzz00m said:


> In my experience, if a single CPU core gets hit hard, the audio can break up even when the other cores are idling.
> 
> I think it may have something to do with the DSP algorithms in the instrument using a single thread. Multiple effect plugins can be load balanced across multiple cores, as each FX plugin can run its own thread, but I think that is a big challenge for a single VSTi instrument to be multi-threaded.


DAWs have different strategies for balancing the load among different cores.

Yeah plugins are rarely multi-core. The implementation is too complicated. This is what the Diva manual says about the multicore option:


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## zzz00m

Pier said:


> Yeah plugins are rarely multi-core. The implementation is too complicated.


I think the biggest issue is that some signal chains can only be processed serially in real-time audio, and are not really compatible to being processed in parallel.

For example you cannot apply reverb to a sound until that sound is first produced, as there is no way to predict what sound is about to be played. Therefore real-time audio signal chains have certain inherent dependencies.


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## Pier

Another new device. KiloHearts are on fire 🔥


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## Wes Mayhall

Pier said:


> Another new device. KiloHearts are on fire 🔥



This thing seriously needs an editor, like the stand-alone DualDelayX.

Edit: Whoops! Wrong company!


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## grabauf

Phase Plant is on sale until Halloween at Best Service:









Phase Plant | kiloHearts | bestservice.de


Phase Plant | Der Traum eines Sounddesigners wird wahr | Analog-Oszillator | Wavetable-Oszillator | erweiterte Noise-Erzeugung und vieles mehr | DE




www.bestservice.de


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## sostenuto

Finally got PP _ _ circuitous process __ need recommends for top few Content Banks adds !! 🙏🏻
Leaning to Ephmeris, Animus, Suspension, Tremor __ BUT_ _ open to User suggestions. 

_No sense of Plugin Boutique - Drum and Bass Phenomenon, Galactic Future Bass, Synthwave Dimensions Bundle_ @ #12. ???

Ready to purchase now !
THX.


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## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> Finally got PP _ _ circuitous process __ need recommends for top few Content Banks adds !! 🙏🏻
> Leaning to Ephmeris, Animus, Suspension, Tremor __ BUT_ _ open to User suggestions.
> Ready to purchase now !
> THX.


Congratulations! I hope you and the big double P are very happy together!


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## Pier

sostenuto said:


> Finally got PP _ _ circuitous process __ need recommends for top few Content Banks adds !! 🙏🏻
> Leaning to Ephmeris, Animus, Suspension, Tremor __ BUT_ _ open to User suggestions.
> 
> _No sense of Plugin Boutique - Drum and Bass Phenomenon, Galactic Future Bass, Synthwave Dimensions Bundle_ @ #12. ???
> 
> Ready to purchase now !
> THX.


Depends on what you're looking for. There's a lot of EDM stuff.

I liked the EmptyVessel bank 









Kilohearts | Suspension


Hold on, wait, and soon you'll see. By emptyvessel




kilohearts.com





This one is great but it's psytrance









Kilohearts | Astral Beings


Psytrance special collection. See the sound of the other side. By Dash Glitch




kilohearts.com


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## sostenuto

Pier said:


> Depends on what you're looking for. There's a lot of EDM stuff.
> 
> I liked the EmptyVessel bank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kilohearts | Suspension
> 
> 
> Hold on, wait, and soon you'll see. By emptyvessel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kilohearts.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one is great but it's psytrance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kilohearts | Astral Beings
> 
> 
> Psytrance special collection. See the sound of the other side. By Dash Glitch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kilohearts.com


THX much ! No EDM negatives, but not top of list early-on. Will check out Astral Beings _ as each EDM lib can have cool, versatile content.

Carta, Hardwire, Polychrome, Outer Space, ..... maybe On the Floor _ are possibilities, at moment.


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## zzz00m

sostenuto said:


> Finally got PP _ _ circuitous process __ need recommends for top few Content Banks adds !! 🙏🏻
> Leaning to Ephmeris, Animus, Suspension, Tremor __ BUT_ _ open to User suggestions.


I have Animus and Suspension, and I like them!

But I would also recommend Polychrome by Andrew Huang. It doesn't have as many PP presets as the others with only 18, but the ones that it has are very good! Plus, if you are ever going to consider getting MultiPass, he includes 16 presets for MultiPass.

_"A Kilohearts content bank designed by the one and only Andrew Huang. Featuring over 30 presets for Phase Plant and Multipass, this collection will give you a refreshing sip of Andrew's sound, his workflow, his philosophy. Synth leads, pads, basses, FX... multiband processing for electronic or acoustic sources... the creative fun is just about to begin."

_


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## sostenuto

zzz00m said:


> I have Animus and Suspension, and I like them!
> 
> But I would also recommend Polychrome by Andrew Huang. It doesn't have as many PP presets as the others with only 18, but the ones that it has are very good! Plus, if you are ever going to consider getting MultiPass, he includes 16 presets for MultiPass.
> 
> _"A Kilohearts content bank designed by the one and only Andrew Huang. Featuring over 30 presets for Phase Plant and Multipass, this collection will give you a refreshing sip of Andrew's sound, his workflow, his philosophy. Synth leads, pads, basses, FX... multiband processing for electronic or acoustic sources... the creative fun is just about to begin."
> 
> _



Thank-you for this heads-up ! Long list of Banks on Kilohearts site, and reviewed each one briefly. 
Andrew Huang definitely talented, trusted creator. Polychrome placed on short list. 👍🏻


----------



## emptyvessel

@arovane made a great pack too:








Kilohearts | Tremor


Mountain tops, spaceports, ancient caves, and deep breathing. By Arovane




kilohearts.com




if I can be so blunt as to offer some self-promotion I also have a dark ambient/cinematic pack on my store:








KHs PhasePlant: SleepSystem - emptyvessel


Sleep System - 32 dark ambient patches for Phase PlantUtilising a pool of original sample content both in the sample playback module and to create a set of new wavetables, SleepSystem explores some of the scope for evolving, complex pads, keys and FX within Phase Plant. Warm, expansive and noisy to




store.emptyvessel.co.nz




Lots of patches based on original samples and wavetables.


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## sostenuto

emptyvessel said:


> @arovane made a great pack too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kilohearts | Tremor
> 
> 
> Mountain tops, spaceports, ancient caves, and deep breathing. By Arovane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kilohearts.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if I can be so blunt as to offer some self-promotion I also have a dark ambient/cinematic pack on my store:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KHs PhasePlant: SleepSystem - emptyvessel
> 
> 
> Sleep System - 32 dark ambient patches for Phase PlantUtilising a pool of original sample content both in the sample playback module and to create a set of new wavetables, SleepSystem explores some of the scope for evolving, complex pads, keys and FX within Phase Plant. Warm, expansive and noisy to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> store.emptyvessel.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of patches based on original samples and wavetables.


Was unaware _ just listened, purchased, downloaded. Looking forward !! 🎈🎈


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## oepion

Any Phase Plant user bought the Transmission expansion from Black Sun Empire? Looks like it's been recently released and I'm seriously considering getting it. BSE are not just the band that got me into neurofunk, they're also among the top sound designers in the genre.

Wondering if this PP expansion features some aggressive, twisted and mangled presets like they use here:



The Phase Plant website only has a demo track, no walkthrough like they did with many of their other expansions :(


----------

