# Friend with album -- how does he get it on Spotify and other streamers?



## JohnG (Dec 7, 2020)

Hi all,

A good friend has produce a rather stunning album of songs and I am wondering if there is a path nowadays to Spotify and other streaming services. Once upon a time you could go to CD Baby and they would disseminate a non-studio soundtrack (for example) to those avenues.

I wondered what the latest DIY distribution best routes might be? The guy is a musical prodigy and it would be great to know the best distribution channel.

Kind regards,

John


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## Wally Garten (Dec 7, 2020)

I'm pretty happy with DistroKid. For a reasonable subscription fee you can basically release music whenever you want. There's an extra fee if you want your stuff to remain on the platforms in the event you ever end your DK subscription, but it's not exorbitant. They also make sure your songwriting credits are recorded on the various platforms, and I think they'll help with monetization, although I haven't gotten to that point yet.


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## JohnG (Dec 7, 2020)

Wally Garten said:


> I'm pretty happy with DistroKid.



Thanks Wally. So it's a fee-based distributor? I wonder, did you look around at alternatives, or is this the latest "how it's done?"

I'm sure others have mentioned DistroKid on the forum.


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## John Longley (Dec 7, 2020)

If you aren't on a label that can release directly, you have to use an aggregator like Distrokid, Tunecore or CDBaby. A lot of my clients prefer Distrokid and CDBaby and few use Tunecore as of late. Not sure why.


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## Wally Garten (Dec 7, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Thanks Wally. So it's a fee-based distributor? I wonder, did you look around at alternatives, or is this the latest "how it's done?"
> 
> I'm sure others have mentioned DistroKid on the forum.



I did look at alternatives (chiefly the ones John mentions), but DistroKid seemed to garner decent comments on the internet and the fees were affordable to me, so that was what I went with. (So not really a thorough analysis, just, "Hey, seems good." Heh.)


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## Arbee (Dec 7, 2020)

I only have experience with CD Baby, but I find their digital distribution network to major streaming services to be excellent. And they have a lot of tips and tricks articles and production partners to support their artists. Like all industries, there are a lot of "purchasing opportunities" for additional services, but the basic offering seems to work pretty well. Happy to answer any specific questions you have about CD Baby as I've been with them for quite a while.


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## BradHoyt (Dec 7, 2020)

CDBaby and Distrokid are both fine. I have albums with both.
Here's the main difference:

CDBaby - You pay a one time fee (usually around $49.00) and they distribute to all streaming services and online stores, etc and they take a percentage cut of royalties.

Distrokid - Yearly fee of $19.99 and you get unlimited releases. If you lapse in your yearly fee, the albums you have there are taken offline. They offer an option to pay $49 to have an album permanently online, even if your subscription lapses. They also distribute to all streaming services and online stores, etc. however, Distrokid takes no percentage of royalties.


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## JonS (Dec 7, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A good friend has produce a rather stunning album of songs and I am wondering if there is a path nowadays to Spotify and other streaming services. Once upon a time you could go to CD Baby and they would disseminate a non-studio soundtrack (for example) to those avenues.
> 
> ...


I like CDBaby much more than Tunecore.


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## rgames (Dec 7, 2020)

@BradHoyt captured the differences well.

In short, if you release a lot of singles and don't mind them falling off the streaming platforms at some point, Distrokid is the better deal. If you release albums and want them to stick around for a long time then CDBaby is the better deal.

I think singles on CDBaby are $29 or something like that. So if you're a "one a month" kind of artist then DitroKid is the much better deal, again noting that you have to keep paying if you stop making music but want the tracks to stick around.

rgames


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## JohnG (Dec 7, 2020)

great -- thanks for the $ comparison @rgames 

I will email him.


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## pondinthestream (Dec 7, 2020)

JohnG said:


> I wondered what the latest DIY distribution best routes might be? The guy is a musical prodigy and it would be great to know the best distribution channel.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> John



I think all the ones mentioned offer the same distribution as far as marketing goes- which is none. All they are offering is your track will be available on the platforms. Hence the cheapest is the best. Or at least that was what it used to be


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## Polkasound (Dec 7, 2020)

I've been distributing with CD Baby for a little over five years now. I'd rate them about an 8 out of 10. Once a song/album is inspected and approved, their distribution is fast and dependable.


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## Wally Garten (Dec 7, 2020)

pondinthestream said:


> I think all the ones mentioned offer the same distribution as far as marketing goes- which is none. All they are offering is your track will be available on the platforms. Hence the cheapest is the best. Or at least that was what it used to be



Yeah, that's right. Marketing is a whole different ball of wax.


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## JohnG (Dec 7, 2020)

Thanks guys -- super helpful.


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## Nate Johnson (Dec 8, 2020)

BradHoyt said:


> Distrokid - Yearly fee of $19.99 and you get unlimited releases.



This is what I use. Happy!


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## Vik (Dec 8, 2020)

JonS said:


> I like CDBaby much more than Tunecore.


Interesting – do you want to tell us why?


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## JonS (Dec 8, 2020)

Vik said:


> Interesting – do you want to tell us why?


If you release singles and albums that don’t necessarily sell well, Tunecore kills you with service fees. I prefer CDBaby. Also, CDBaby regularly runs promotions so releasing an album will only cost $29.99 and a single less than $10 or so.


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## AudioLoco (Dec 8, 2020)

+1 for Distrokid


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## Loïc D (Dec 8, 2020)

I've been eyeing this too (so far, I estimate that my compositions don't meet the level for a release and/or PRO registering, but I'm improving  ).

I've been watching lots of video recommendations/complaints on YouTube, and it seems that a fundamental question is : how to get my tunes back if I quit the service or get kicked out.

It seems like DistroKid is sometimes ditching people without further notice or explanations, and get the hands back on your track rights is annoying.

It seems also that some of these services are publishing the scoring tracks under a generic genre (like : classical), making them harder to reach an audience or be noticed.

Again, rights-wise I'm not knowledgeable at all, so take it with a grain of salt.


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## Markrs (Dec 8, 2020)

I had a brief look into it and there are a few YouTube videos of people having issues with Distrokid. Also (and this might have changed) you can't take up the permanent option with them just by leaving. On one video (can't remember which one) it was explained that, that service was for special circumstances, not just when someone no longer wants to pay the yearly fee. 

I haven't release anything to a streaming service so I can't personally comment but I was just curious and looked into some reviews.


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## telecode101 (Dec 8, 2020)

i use distrokid for my stuff. but mostly singles .

FWIW.. i would suggest your friend just put his stuff on bandcamp and try to get buys from there. maybe integeate it with own her/his site and promo it that way. host on squarespace or something like that with embedded player links all pointing to bandcamp. with spotify -- unless she/he can find a way to get on a curated playlist -- he will be spending $20 per year to get $1 to $5 back .. you need a sht load of plays to get $20 back


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## pmountford (Dec 8, 2020)

Has anyone used Ditto? I put an album out with them 10 years ago and can see it on Amazon for sale still but no idea if there have been any sales - just making contact with them now to investigate.


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## A3D2 (Dec 8, 2020)

I've been looking into distributors myself lately for similar reasons. I came across Amuse (https://www.amuse.io/pricing) which is free to use for the basic account. I have no idea if they are any good since I haven't used it yet, but I am considering it because it costs nothing to distribute your music to all major streaming services and stores (like itunes).


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## Levon (Dec 8, 2020)

Came across this: DistroKid vs. CD Baby vs. EmuBands and more - My Experience with Music Distributors (rustlingstillness.blogspot.com)


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## Wally Garten (Dec 8, 2020)

Markrs said:


> On one video (can't remember which one) it was explained that, that service was for special circumstances, not just when someone no longer wants to pay the yearly fee.



I think if that's the approach they take, they're cruising for a lawsuit, because that is not how it's explained on the site....


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## Ashermusic (Dec 8, 2020)

When I released mine, CD Baby was how I did it.


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## Wally Garten (Dec 8, 2020)

Wally Garten said:


> I think if that's the approach they take, they're cruising for a lawsuit, because that is not how it's explained on the site....



Actually, the blog post Levon posted suggests that they changed their policy recently: 

However, Leave a Legacy only protects songs from annual payment failures. Freely stopping paying annual fees or cancelling membership will result in all songs deleted, no matter whether "Leave a Legacy" has been paid! (*6 July 2020 Update*: DistroKid seemed quietly changed the page and no longer saying cancelling membership will delete the songs)​


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## Markrs (Dec 8, 2020)

Levon said:


> Came across this: DistroKid vs. CD Baby vs. EmuBands and more - My Experience with Music Distributors (rustlingstillness.blogspot.com)


Good account of the options available but also the issues with Distrokid


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## Wally Garten (Dec 8, 2020)

Wally Garten said:


> Actually, the blog post Levon posted suggests that they changed their policy recently:
> 
> However, Leave a Legacy only protects songs from annual payment failures. Freely stopping paying annual fees or cancelling membership will result in all songs deleted, no matter whether "Leave a Legacy" has been paid! (*6 July 2020 Update*: DistroKid seemed quietly changed the page and no longer saying cancelling membership will delete the songs)​



Yeah, here's the language from the website:

if you ever choose to cancel your subscription, any releases that have the Leave a Legacy extra added will remain in stores, even if you cancel your account.​
(I knew I wasn't crazy!)


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 8, 2020)

I recommend Soundrop. It's completely free (and perpetual). They just keep a larger percentage of the revenue but unless you're getting millions of streams, you're never going to make any money. 

I think it's ridiculous that some services like Distrokid don't let you set a release date. Most serious artists have promo planned for their releases and need to have a date set.


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## pondinthestream (Dec 9, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I recommend Soundrop. It's completely free (and perpetual). They just keep a larger percentage of the revenue but unless you're getting millions of streams, you're never going to make any money.
> 
> I think it's ridiculous that some services like Distrokid don't let you set a release date. Most serious artists have promo planned for their releases and need to have a date set.


I dont know why anyone bothers at all, unless they really think they have a chance with very mainstream success and think they will have all the marketing support that entails. Better to just buy lottery tickets.


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## CGR (Dec 9, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I recommend Soundrop. It's completely free (and perpetual). They just keep a larger percentage of the revenue but unless you're getting millions of streams, you're never going to make any money.
> 
> I think it's ridiculous that some services like Distrokid don't let you set a release date. Most serious artists have promo planned for their releases and need to have a date set.


+1. I've released five albums via Soundrop. A straight forward process, logical account interface and prompt tech support when needed.


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## GtrString (Dec 9, 2020)

What he wants is an aggregator that will distribute his music digitally. Both Spotify and Apple Music has a preferred list of distributors, and those might give a smoother experience using all the digital tools available.

Spotify: https://artists.spotify.com/directory/distribution
Apple Music: https://itunespartner.apple.com/music/partner-search

I use Digidi, which is a nonprofit company in Denmark, where you buy a share to co-own it. It uses The Orchard's engine, which is on the preferred lists.

It is important that he signs up with one that can provide pre-release links ect., because he will want to get on the playlists sooner or very sooner, and plan his releases well. If he can, it would also be preferred if he got with a label distributor, because they have negotiated better payouts with the streaming services. Spotify have bought shares with Distrokid, which means that Spotify get paid to get music on their platform while at the same time can pay out less for it (to those without label agreement).

Also follow Burstimo on YouTube, for a ton of useful info for artists on how to release music in the digital domain.


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## Orchestrata (Dec 9, 2020)

Late to the party, but +1 for Distrokid and Bandcamp combo, been doing it that way for 5+ years without complaint.

I'm sure there are legitimate complaints with Distrokid, but I've found a lot of them are broader issues with things like international tax forms that now need to be done, which is universal to all the services, and many cases where people simply didn't pay attention to the service agreement and FAQ. Also, the CEO of one of its competitors seemed to have a personal vendetta with them, so there was a lot of silly mudslinging a few years back. In my experience their support was their one weakness and that's been vastly improved.


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## LudovicVDP (Dec 9, 2020)

Don't mind me. I'm just commenting to follow this interesting thread.


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## lsabina (Dec 9, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I recommend Soundrop. It's completely free (and perpetual). They just keep a larger percentage of the revenue but unless you're getting millions of streams, you're never going to make any money.
> 
> I think it's ridiculous that some services like Distrokid don't let you set a release date. Most serious artists have promo planned for their releases and need to have a date set.



You can set a release date on a Distrokid, at least at the mid-level pricing plan. I really like Distrokid. Actually moved away from Soundrop to DK.


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## bvaughn0402 (Dec 9, 2020)

I think the bigger question ... how to easily get on to playlists on Spotify and Apple ...


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## from_theashes (Dec 9, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I recommend Soundrop. It's completely free (and perpetual). They just keep a larger percentage of the revenue but unless you're getting millions of streams, you're never going to make any money.
> 
> I think it's ridiculous that some services like Distrokid don't let you set a release date. Most serious artists have promo planned for their releases and need to have a date set.



I just checked Soundrop and their website says it’s for distributing „cover songs“. So what about your own compositions? Am I missing something here?


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## CGR (Dec 10, 2020)

from_theashes said:


> I just checked Soundrop and their website says it’s for distributing „cover songs“. So what about your own compositions? Am I missing something here?


They also distribute original music. My five albums I distribute via Soundrop are all original compositions. Their differentiator is they handle the licensing & distribution of cover songs, and take the complexity out of the process for the artist.


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## LudovicVDP (Dec 10, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I recommend Soundrop. It's completely free (and perpetual). They just keep a larger percentage of the revenue but unless you're getting millions of streams, you're never going to make any money.



They still charge 9,99 USD per song... Or is it only if it's a cover song?


_We charge $9.99 per cover song to secure the required license, and then we keep 15% of the revenue you earn from digital music platforms. This means we only make money when you do; we’re a partner in your success today, tomorrow, forever. _


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## GtrString (Dec 10, 2020)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I think the bigger question ... how to easily get on to playlists on Spotify and Apple ...



Write great songs with great production, and plan the releases several months ahead. Do the traditional marketing, throw parties for influencers, put out press releases and pitch to radio.

These things still count, at least locally. Its what you used to pay labels for 

Although you can pay too much to get on those playlists. It's not all that. Still streaming works well as a cheap marketing channel, if there are gigs..


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 10, 2020)

LudovicVDP said:


> They still charge 9,99 USD per song... Or is it only if it's a cover song?
> 
> 
> _We charge $9.99 per cover song to secure the required license, and then we keep 15% of the revenue you earn from digital music platforms. This means we only make money when you do; we’re a partner in your success today, tomorrow, forever. _



Only covers since they need to cover the licensing. For anything original it's free.


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## dreddiknight (Dec 11, 2020)

I'm just s hobbyist but this thread is so interesting and informative. Thank you all for the knowledge being shared 🙂👍🏿


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## telecode101 (Dec 12, 2020)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I think the bigger question ... how to easily get on to playlists on Spotify and Apple ...



yup. that's the big elephant in the room. the mysterious dark magic that is the spiders web of curated playlists.


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## bvaughn0402 (Dec 12, 2020)

GtrString said:


> Write great songs with great production, and plan the releases several months ahead. Do the traditional marketing, throw parties for influencers, put out press releases and pitch to radio.
> 
> These things still count, at least locally. Its what you used to pay labels for
> 
> Although you can pay too much to get on those playlists. It's not all that. Still streaming works well as a cheap marketing channel, if there are gigs..



Thanks ... and I agree. But it would make streaming services to really benefit a known artist by bypassing traditional marketing.

If you are a new artist with no following ... these services don’t provide much unless you luck into a playlist right?


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## GtrString (Dec 12, 2020)

bvaughn0402 said:


> Thanks ... and I agree. But it would make streaming services to really benefit a known artist by bypassing traditional marketing.
> 
> If you are a new artist with no following ... these services don’t provide much unless you luck into a playlist right?



No matter who you are, you won't likely make the playlists in any significant way, if you don't plan ahead.

The thing about record labels is that they have all of this marketing set up and ready to go, way ahead of any release.

Now, these things are available for new unsigned artists as well, but you need to understand it and work out pre-release plans and post-release plans. It's a lot of work, and hardly worth the work if you don't plan to use the streaming numbers for getting gigs, because work = money and you barely break even, even with good streaming numbers.

But, local news papers/ magazine still reads press releases, and if you are good with stories, you can get featured.

If you do release parties for the right people, you can build a solid local network, that could spread out internationally.

And if you pitch to radio, you can build a brand, that can bring in better paying gigs.

It's all about staging and long-term strategy. Don't expect too much from one single effort, and don't expect direct returns in terms of payback from streaming royalties, but if you succeed in building a solid brand and name recognition through these things, and you deliver consistant quality - you may succeed in building a brand that is worth the efforts.

The amateur mistakes is to expect direct returns, start too big, too soon, with too little quality work, with too little effort, without any plan, and giving up.

You'r nobody until somebody loves you. And the more somebody, the more everybody. Like in love.

my2c, ofc, fwiw, ect


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## telecode101 (Dec 12, 2020)

GtrString said:


> ... You'r nobody until somebody loves you...



meh.. I tend to have more respect for composers that keep a low profile on social media and just keep releasing music I like to listen to. The good ones keep low profile.


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## JonS (Dec 12, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> meh.. I tend to have more respect for composers that keep a low profile on social media and just keep releasing music I like to listen to. The good ones keep low profile.


Unless your success is due to social media, anyone who is a successful professional in any industry should avoid saying anything on the web and social media as it is too easy for everything you say to be used to destroy your career and livelihood. Truth and justice have nothing to do with how reality unfolds all too often. Social media can turn into a lynch mob in a blink of an eye since so many people in the world have miserable lives and are angry, so they are looking to destroy everyone they can all too often since they feel powerless about their own lives and ability to get the things they want which could make them happy. Then there are people who are never happy or simply are jealous and want what someone else has that they don't.

Just to show how difficult it is to become an A-list film and tv composer, there are only a few hundred of them that do all the movies and tv series for the major studios. So pursuing this profession is just not realistic for anyone no matter how talented you are. Whereas in the USA alone there are around 3 million teachers, almost 3 million registered nurses, a little over 1 million firemen, about 800,000 full-time college professors, and around 700,000 police officers. So, if you are lucky enough to become one of the very few people who are making a good living as a film and tv composer the last thing you want to do is say anything on the web that gets your career to end simply because other people have an axe to grind about their own lives.


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## telecode101 (Dec 12, 2020)

JonS said:


> Unless your success is due to social media, anyone who is a successful professional in any industry should avoid saying anything on the web and social media as it is too easy for everything you say to be used to destroy your career and livelihood. Truth and justice have nothing to do with how reality unfolds all too often. Social media can turn into a lynch mob in a blink of an eye since so many people in the world have miserable lives and are angry, so they are looking to destroy everyone they can all too often since they feel powerless about their own lives and ability to get the things they want which could make them happy. Then there are people who are never happy or simply are jealous and want what someone else has that they don't.
> 
> Just to show how difficult it is to become an A-list film and tv composer, there are only a few hundred of them that do all the movies and tv series for the major studios. So pursuing this profession is just not realistic for anyone no matter how talented you are. Whereas in the USA alone there are around 3 million teachers, almost 3 million registered nurses, a little over 1 million firemen, about 800,000 full-time college professors, and around 700,000 police officers. So, if you are lucky enough to become one of the very few people who are making a good living as a film and tv composer the last thing you want to do is say anything on the web that gets your career to end simply because other people have an axe to grind about their own lives.



oy vey.. we always have these little future career thread posts that crop up once in a while and they always take this sort of odd downer turn.

Pursing a lively hood in the arts is not the same thing as pursuing a livelihood in regular careers and jobs. So there is really no point comparing the odds and statistics of making a living in the arts to making a living working in engineering or computer science or medicine or any other supposedly high return STEM type job. They are not the same thing as working in arts type fields. So those comparisons are pointless.

Making a living in arts is, has been and always will be much riskier and harder and less stable than working in more traditional types of jobs. But someone always winds up doing those jobs and builds careers out of piecing together a lively hood working from one project to another. (you won't get rich. if you want money become a real estate agent and sell houses or something. )

I think its good to put yourself in the mindset of understanding why you want to work in the arts (in this case, music composition) in the first place. Then learn how to do it and how to work in the industry that pays people to do this type of work. And then from there, learn how to survive the ups and downs that come with working in the arts.

It’s good to keep in mind that if the arts is something you really want to do and you feel like you have to do it because that’s what you need to do, then pursue it. Don’t pay attention of comparisons of working in the arts to regular 9 to 5 jobs. They are completely different things and can’t be compared. The risks of not pursing what you want to do is that you will never know if you were or could have been any good at it and you will spend the rest of your life wondering if you could have been any good at it. For all you know, you might discover that you are actually much better at making film music than most other people and you become much better at it than you thought you were. But if you don’t at least try, you will never know.

(Hopefully that rambling made some sense to someone.)


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## JonS (Dec 12, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> oy vey.. we always have these little future career thread posts that crop up once in a while and they always take this sort of odd downer turn.
> 
> Pursing a lively hood in the arts is not the same thing as pursuing a livelihood in regular careers and jobs. So there is really no point comparing the odds and statistics of making a living in the arts to making a living working in engineering or computer science or medicine or any other supposedly high return STEM type job. They are not the same thing as working in arts type fields. So those comparisons are pointless.
> 
> ...


You actually are making the same point I made, which is it is so incredibly difficult if not almost impossible to make a good living in the Arts if one wants to be a film and tv composer. I wasn't comparing other jobs to being a composer, I was merely stating just how few positions even exist in this field as a composer and all of those jobs are basically taken by composers already. Hollywood doesn't need more film and tv composers, it already has too many and too few productions for those composers with major agents and credits. It is easier for a famous pop/rock/electronic artist to get a break as a film composer than a music school graduate, so this is just not a profession anyone can pursue with a realistic chance of succeeding as those who do succeed are exceptionally lucky first and foremost. Thus, if you make it in this biz one would be wise to say nothing on social media since you would not want to see your career evaporate after becoming so lucky to have it in the first place.

It is impossible to know if someone is good at composing for film and tv unless they are actually hired by a major studio and put into the tight time constraints of the production. Only then will one be able to see if they have the chops to be in this biz. Being able to compose 6+ minutes of music day after day is not something just anyone can do at the kind of quality expected in the industry. Realize too, that having a studio, producers and director approve your score is very subjective. There have been phenomenal scores by A-list composers that were rejected by the studio. Most people who want to become film and tv composers will never even get the opportunity to see if they can make it in the business, so wanting to be a film composer doesn't really mean much when one is unlikely to even get a chance to compose for a production. Getting a degree in film scoring is a fairly irrelevant achievement if your goal is to become a successful film and tv composer. There are way too many music graduates every year that will never get the chance to make it. Being talented is about the least most important thing Hollywood values.


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## dreddiknight (Dec 12, 2020)

JonS said:


> Unless your success is due to social media, anyone who is a successful professional in any industry should avoid saying anything on the web and social media as it is too easy for everything you say to be used to destroy your career and livelihood. Truth and justice have nothing to do with how reality unfolds all too often. Social media can turn into a lynch mob in a blink of an eye since so many people in the world have miserable lives and are angry, so they are looking to destroy everyone they can all too often since they feel powerless about their own lives and ability to get the things they want which could make them happy. Then there are people who are never happy or simply are jealous and want what someone else has that they don't.
> 
> Just to show how difficult it is to become an A-list film and tv composer, there are only a few hundred of them that do all the movies and tv series for the major studios. So pursuing this profession is just not realistic for anyone no matter how talented you are. Whereas in the USA alone there are around 3 million teachers, almost 3 million registered nurses, a little over 1 million firemen, about 800,000 full-time college professors, and around 700,000 police officers. So, if you are lucky enough to become one of the very few people who are making a good living as a film and tv composer the last thing you want to do is say anything on the web that gets your career to end simply because other people have an axe to grind about their own lives.


Um.
Axe to grind you say?


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## JohnG (Dec 12, 2020)

There's a lot of good information here. 

I do see, at times (not so much on this thread) people urging "if you just have enough passion...." and that reflects an uninformed point of view. Nobody is naive enough to think that putting up tracks will guarantee lifetime income either, never fear. My friend is highly intelligent and is an accomplished composer and musician.


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## GtrString (Dec 12, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> meh.. I tend to have more respect for composers that keep a low profile on social media and just keep releasing music I like to listen to. The good ones keep low profile.


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## JonS (Dec 12, 2020)

dreddiknight said:


> Um.
> Axe to grind you say?


I apologize if that phrase is a micro trigger for ya...


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## Haakond (Dec 12, 2020)

I use Routenote. It is free, but they take 15% of the income


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## telecode101 (Dec 12, 2020)

JonS said:


> You actually are making the same point I made, which is it is so incredibly difficult if not almost impossible to make a good living in the Arts if one wants to be a film and tv composer. I wasn't comparing other jobs to being a composer, I was merely stating just how few positions even exist in this field as a composer and all of those jobs are basically taken by composers already. Hollywood doesn't need more film and tv composers, it already has too many and too few productions for those composers with major agents and credits. It is easier for a famous pop/rock/electronic artist to get a break as a film composer than a music school graduate, so this is just not a profession anyone can pursue with a realistic chance of succeeding as those who do succeed are exceptionally lucky first and foremost. Thus, if you make it in this biz one would be wise to say nothing on social media since you would not want to see your career evaporate after becoming so lucky to have it in the first place.
> 
> It is impossible to know if someone is good at composing for film and tv unless they are actually hired by a major studio and put into the tight time constraints of the production. Only then will one be able to see if they have the chops to be in this biz. Being able to compose 6+ minutes of music day after day is not something just anyone can do at the kind of quality expected in the industry. Realize too, that having a studio, producers and director approve your score is very subjective. There have been phenomenal scores by A-list composers that were rejected by the studio. Most people who want to become film and tv composers will never even get the opportunity to see if they can make it in the business, so wanting to be a film composer doesn't really mean much when one is unlikely to even get a chance to compose for a production. Getting a degree in film scoring is a fairly irrelevant achievement if your goal is to become a successful film and tv composer. There are way too many music graduates every year that will never get the chance to make it. Being talented is about the least most important thing Hollywood values.



I interpreted your post that you are comparing making a lively hood in the arts to other jobs. Your argument has no weight. Making a living from the arts is not a path you purse because you want to get hired by a corporation* or have a steady income to pay a mortgage.

* "hollywood" is made up of media corporations that create entertainment products by hiring temp staff on a project by project basis. The regular staff are not creative staff. They fired all their in house composers long time ago.



> "It is impossible to know if someone is good at composing for film and tv unless they are actually hired by a major studio and put into the tight time constraints of the production."



You are using the chicken and the egg argument. You can apply argument to just about anything. What is stopping you from pursing a career in the arts, aka film composition? There is nothing stopping you but yourself. Even when or if you do get that big break, you will be back out on the street once the project is over. And yes, you will be competing for the next gig with Czech musicians and composers that have a lower cost of living and are willing to under cut you. 

There are a couple of very basic things you need to grasp about mass entertainment media. It's a highly geographically focused industry. Meaning 80 to 90% of the jobs are in two cities. The other jobs are spread out across the country. If you want to get into it you are most probably going to have to move to the place where everyone else is and where rent is much more expensive and where everyone is top notch and at the top of their game.


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## telecode101 (Dec 12, 2020)

JohnG said:


> There's a lot of good information here.
> 
> I do see, at times (not so much on this thread) people urging "if you just have enough passion...." and that reflects an uninformed point of view. Nobody is naive enough to think that putting up tracks will guarantee lifetime income either, never fear. My friend is highly intelligent and is an accomplished composer and musician.



a lot of it just comes down to what is it you really want to do. most people don't actually know. you can spend a lifetime sitting on the sidelines watching and observing. but ultimatly it comes down to is if you want to do something, then you need to go out and try to do it. if you don't try, you will never know if you were any good at it.

looking at stats and stability is a little pointless. the days of going to college, getting a job and working for the same company for 40 years and you get a gold watch before you retire are gone. most millenial and post-millenial generations are going to participate in a gig economy. which is actually not that bad a thing as it will psychologically prepare one for being able to handle working and surviving in a project based economy .

anyways, chiming out .. as I dont know how we got side tracked. we were discussing how to chose which seedy distributor to go with to distribute the music and not get paid for it.


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## Kyle Preston (Dec 12, 2020)

Hey @JohnG ,

Hope I’m not too late with this, but if your friend is in it for the long haul, I think Distrokid should be avoided.

Up until a week ago, I recommended them to artists looking to get their toes wet in streaming for the first time. I still have a few releases with them that I’m in the process of transferring, some under my own name, some under pseudonyms, but I will never recommend them again.

In a nutshell, either through their incompetence, or misuse, I’m currently experiencing something similar to what carykh went through (except with potential lawsuits because YouTube Content ID is an utter nightmare for indie artists). Their customer service, I guess,_ *technically* _does exist. But if you have questions involving specifics, they won’t get answered — even if, (as in my case) financial survival is at stake. 

I used cdbaby years ago (for actual cds), they were great, had no issues and I can tell they genuinely care about the futures of their artists. I don’t quite like what I see them morphing into lately, they’re looking more and more like a corporate behemoth that is behind the times. But all in all, they’re probably a safe place to distribute music these days. 

In my case, I’ve been with AWAL since 2018 and I’m pretty happy to have my music there. No upfront fees, they take 15%. They’re analytics platform is superb, which has helped me navigate the streaming landscape in so many ways. There's an application process which is pretty straight forward, not sure what their requirements are these days so definitely read through their site.

Also, separate from distributors, Bandcamp is the best. I really with they were the default platform that listeners used because it'd be the best scenario for artists AND listeners. But sadly, it is (and probably will remain) the cool indie place with interesting music that mostly helps artists buy stamps, bubble gum and sometimes eggs.


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## dreddiknight (Dec 12, 2020)

JonS said:


> I apologize if that phrase is a micro trigger for ya...


Whoosh!

I can only assume your axe is super sharp, because you're grinding it hard baby! 😄


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## JonS (Dec 12, 2020)

dreddiknight said:


> Whoosh!
> 
> I can only assume your axe is super sharp, because you're grinding it hard baby! 😄


Nah... I was merely speaking truth so others do not get misled. All is good, hope the same for you...


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## VivianaSings (Dec 12, 2020)

I find it even worse that if you find yourself in the regrettable position to end up on streaming it's near impossible to get yourself off it.


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## Arbee (Dec 12, 2020)

JonS said:


> Nah... I was merely speaking truth so others do not get misled. All is good, hope the same for you...


Nice to see you on a different thread spreading your joy and sunshine 👍.


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## JonS (Dec 12, 2020)

Arbee said:


> Nice to see you on a different thread spreading your joy and sunshine 👍.


Don't be a rude loser. Your post is meant to only negatively attack someone, which is not what I was doing.


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## Arbee (Dec 12, 2020)

JonS said:


> Don't be a rude loser. Your post is meant to only negatively attack someone, which is not what I was doing.


I respect that you see your contributions as experienced real world counselling, and that you put a lot of time into articulating them. I just prefer these threads to keep some sense of glass half full, so as not to discourage those who will ultimately "get lucky".


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## JonS (Dec 12, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> I interpreted your post that you are comparing making a lively hood in the arts to other jobs. Your argument has no weight. Making a living from the arts is not a path you purse because you want to get hired by a corporation* or have a steady income to pay a mortgage.
> 
> * "hollywood" is made up of media corporations that create entertainment products by hiring temp staff on a project by project basis. The regular staff are not creative staff. They fired all their in house composers long time ago.
> 
> ...


I don't need to grasp anything you are spewing. Nothing is stopping me from doing what I am focused on in my career, so I have no clue what you are rambling on about. I've been in the industry for over 30 years. I was not comparing the Arts to any other biz. I was merely pointing out to those who may want to pursue a career being a film and tv composer one day that it's not like most other professions, that's all. There's no real controllable path to becoming a film and tv composer without enormous luck at play, which none of us control. I was not talking about the Arts in general either. I never said anything about composers being full-time employees of Hollywood studios as that practice ended way before I was born. When a composer gets hired by a major studio it's a "work-for-hire" contract. The composer doesn't own the music he composes for the production as the studio will, but it's typical for the composer to receive certain royalties from the publishing of the work including collecting PRO royalties. 

There is no undercutting in this industry. If a major studio or A-list film director for instance wants to work with Hans Zimmer or John Williams, they are going to pay their creative fees and could careless about how cheap any other composer may be. You could say the same example about almost any A-list composer. This industry is all about relationships. The same directors want to work with the same composer on each and every project as long as that composer is available. So unknown composers don't have any kind of a real chance of getting hired for a major film or tv series since it's the same A-list directors at the helm of each project hiring the same 1-2 A-list composers that each director wants to work with. No one else really has a chance to break in. Every once in a blue moon a famous already successful pop/rock/electronic/classical music artist (or musical director for a famous music artist) will get a chance to compose for a film or tv series but this rarely happens. It's more common that an assistant for an A-list composer (like Hans Zimmer) gets a chance to be a film and tv composer, but those gigs are very hard to come by too. 

What people can do, which is what this whole post topic is about, is release their own albums through CDBaby and Tunecore and try to make it as a music artist, though that is also an incredibly difficult field to make a living in too especially if one is just a self-published music artist and does not have a huge social media following or record deal. But there are so many fantastic sounding sample libraries and effects plugins these days that creating one's own album is a very controllable pursuit even if you don't make money from its release.


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## JonS (Dec 12, 2020)

Arbee said:


> I respect that you see your contributions as experienced real world counselling, and that you put a lot of time into articulating them. I just prefer these threads to keep some sense of glass half full, so as not to discourage those who will ultimately "get lucky".


I think anyone specifically pursuing a career path to become a film and tv composer should be aware from the get go just how impossible it will be to achieve without massive luck. 

Anyone who is that passionate about wanting to become a film and tv composer is going to pursue that path no matter what I or anyone else says. I am simply being realistic. If someone wants to be glass half filled they really should chose a different career path or they are going to mostly likely become very disappointed one day, that's all. The ones who ultimately get lucky are probably not on this forum anyway so there's nothing for you to worry about. 

Also, no matter how difficult life can be for any of us, it's best to try your best in life regardless how easy or difficult your path may or may not be. There's an honor in doing the best one can do regardless of the result or one's own expectation. I am just speaking the truth, so be careful about overly romanticizing certain pursuits as it can deeply harm those people whose dreams don't come true when the illusion becomes a delusional reality, which more often than not is what happens to too many people in this world (50% of all marriages fail and end in divorce for example). I think it's always best to see how difficult a pursuit is before one starts the journey so at least one understands how challenging this choice may be.... In the end, regardless the choices each of us makes, one needs quite of bit of luck to have life unfold in a good lasting manner as so many things can and will go wrong very quickly.


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## Arbee (Dec 12, 2020)

With respect, this thread isn't about being an A list film and tv composer. It has a lot of useful content about how best to independently distribute and promote music as a composer/artist. I suggest we allow it to get back on track.


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## telecode101 (Dec 12, 2020)

do a lot on people buy off bandcamp? i have only ever bought on there from artists that i have seen perform live.


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## MeloKeyz (Aug 3, 2021)

Two questions to Distrokid artists!

What are their standards for quality tracks? 
Do they need high quality tracks much like exclusive libraries do?


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## BenjaminO (Aug 3, 2021)

There seem to be quite a lot of these distributors/aggregators and someone did a comparison and review of the "best". Maybe someone finds this useful.


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