# Managing cues feat. length film



## guydoingmusic (Nov 13, 2015)

Just curious to see how you guys are dealing with this these days... with computers handling much more than before. Are you splitting the film up into sections/reels still? or just composing the whole score under one session?

I'm currently starting the score for a feature length film (only done shorts up to this point) and trying to decide on my approach for managing the score as a whole. I have the themes and template finished. Even wrote a 20 min sketch to work out some ideas. Have had no issues at this point. But with additions and possible changes to the edit coming, and the film stretching out to 1hr 50mins, I wonder if it wouldn't be easier on the workflow and the computer to split it all up?


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## vocalnick (Nov 13, 2015)

Which DAW are you using?

I'm developing a workflow based on Reaper's hidden "Project in Project" feature. Still ironing out some small bumps, but overall it's working very well, and gives me pretty much the benefits of DP's chunks feature as I understand them.

It's not so much about computing horsepower for me, so much as it's about avoiding a complete mess if I need to go back and revise a section without messing up everything after it on the timeline. I know there are various tricks with locking to timecode, markers etc. but it's fiddly at best. One project per cue means everything is safely isolated, so you can't destroy cues 2-25 by changing the tempo or meter on cue 1


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## guydoingmusic (Nov 13, 2015)

Cubase 8 is my DAW. And the mess you speak of is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.


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## vocalnick (Nov 13, 2015)

I don't know a Cubase-specific method, but AFAIK there are a lot of Steinberg-ers here, so hopefully a solution will be forthcoming.

I know I've seen posts on another forum where Charlie Clouser has gone into great detail about his song-per-cue TV scoring workflow in Logic. I believe that would translate to pretty much any DAW, so it might be worth looking for (I'm not sure if it's appropriate to link to rival forums in here?). From memory he just starts a new project for each individual cue with the starting timecode set to the appropriate point in the reference video. Then he records all of the resulting cues into a master-session on a separate computer running Pro Tools, so he's got the "wide shot" view of the whole project.

That's actually pretty close in principle to what I'm doing with Reaper and Project-in-Project, but I don't need to swap back and forth between computers - My master sessions houses the individual cue sessions, and I can pop in and make changes with a double-click. They're all completely independent, with their own timelines and tempo/time sig maps, so any changes I make have absolutely no effect on the rest. I'm not aware of any equivalent feature in Cubase though.


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## Jacob Cadmus (Nov 13, 2015)

How do you do the PiP? I'm trying to figure it out in Reaper 5, but it keeps giving me the replace or tab option.


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## vocalnick (Nov 13, 2015)

It's a bit of a hidden/experimental feature, so you have to enable it with an edit to the configuration file. There's a discussion and basic instructions on the Reaper forums here.

I'm working on a walkthrough of my process, but I've been flat out with project work so it keeps falling by the wayside. The above link should get you started though.


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## samphony (Nov 14, 2015)

vocalnick said:


> Which DAW are you using?
> 
> I'm developing a workflow based on Reaper's hidden "Project in Project" feature. Still ironing out some small bumps, but overall it's working very well, and gives me pretty much the benefits of DP's chunks feature as I understand them.
> 
> It's not so much about computing horsepower for me, so much as it's about avoiding a complete mess if I need to go back and revise a section without messing up everything after it on the timeline. I know there are various tricks with locking to timecode, markers etc. but it's fiddly at best. One project per cue means everything is safely isolated, so you can't destroy cues 2-25 by changing the tempo or meter on cue 1




Please share your inside or a short tutorial vid of your learnings if you can. 

Thanks


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## TheUnfinished (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm currently working on my first feature score in Cubase 8.

I set up a template project and then open it and re-save it as a new project for each new cue. Makes life much easier to manage in my opinion. If I want to reincorporate any ideas, I can just render out the midi and drop it into the new project. And is a damn site simpler for changing tempo, time signature etc.

Then I'll be bouncing out all the tracks to audio for a proper mixdown of each cue.

Seems to be working perfectly for me so far. So far...


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## Jacob Cadmus (Nov 14, 2015)

The PiP _kind of _worked, but I kept getting an error message. No big deal though. I manage my cues the same way that Matt does - one cue per session. I don't mind reloading my instruments every time, since my templates are pretty lightweight and only take about a minute to load.


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## samphony (Nov 14, 2015)

I personally still prefer stemming in realtime to another daw to have a birds eye of my work.


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## vocalnick (Nov 14, 2015)

samphony said:


> I personally still prefer stemming in realtime to another daw to have a birds eye of my work.



I'm curious - do you do this on a second machine, or route internally to another DAW application on the same one?

A video walkthrough is on my to-do list, but I've been rather busy. I'll try to get to it this week! It won't be for everyone (and as the OP is using Cubase it's a bit irrelevant for him) but I reckon it's worth a look.


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## guydoingmusic (Nov 17, 2015)

TheUnfinished said:


> I'm currently working on my first feature score in Cubase 8.
> 
> I set up a template project and then open it and re-save it as a new project for each new cue. Makes life much easier to manage in my opinion. If I want to reincorporate any ideas, I can just render out the midi and drop it into the new project. And is a damn site simpler for changing tempo, time signature etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Matt! I'm pretty sure this is the approach I will take as well. 

P.S. I have a ton of your sounds loaded in the template...so much, that I feel like I owe you a sound design/addtnl music credit.


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## Dean (Nov 17, 2015)

guydoingmusic said:


> Just curious to see how you guys are dealing with this these days... with computers handling much more than before. Are you splitting the film up into sections/reels still? or just composing the whole score under one session?
> 
> I'm currently starting the score for a feature length film (only done shorts up to this point) and trying to decide on my approach for managing the score as a whole. I have the themes and template finished. Even wrote a 20 min sketch to work out some ideas. Have had no issues at this point. But with additions and possible changes to the edit coming, and the film stretching out to 1hr 50mins, I wonder if it wouldn't be easier on the workflow and the computer to split it all up?




I would suggest you get the film sent to you in reels (usually its 3 - 5 reels) with BITC.
(its less daunting to work in reels too.)

On each reel should be 8 sec countdown with a PIP @ 2 secs before pic start.

Definitely easier to have a seperate session for each cue.

Most common and simple cue labeling goes something like (r1 = reel one ) (m1= music cue 1) and number them incrementally as follows;...(reel one) r1m1,..r1m2,..r1m3..etc,...(reel two) r2m1,..r2m2,..r2m3 and so on.
Cant go wrong that way,..any re-writes label as r1m2a ,r1m2b and so on.

Save all the reel 1 sessions in a master reel 1 (score) folder and so on for each reel.

For final audio bounce /stem versions of each cue create a new independent folder for each session 'r1m2 final' (?)

Your cues for each reel will already be synched (lock them in place when complete.)

If you can timestamp all your cues and stems (so they snap to their synch positions for the engineer) then ignore the following,..
Then you have to import all your cues (synched/in position) into a master session for each reel (your stereo cue mix then the cue stems seperated out below (on their individual tracks)

Question: not sure about your budget?,is it 5.1 mix? Have you agreed a number of stems for the mix guys? Are you doing final mix/ master?

Hope this helps? D


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## Dean (Nov 17, 2015)

As Matt said when actually scoring to picture (after composing and you have your themes etc,)
having a template set-up and open and resave for each cue with its own cue label (r1m1) all setup in its own master reel folder means you can jump in and start working on the music straight off the bat.

Do you have Ve-Pro? with the preserve function? I presume you do,..life saver!! D


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## Greg (Nov 17, 2015)

If picture is locked, I love working within 1 session. Makes the job such a breeze tweaking cues and making nice transitions. Especially good for understanding and maintaining a good arc / cohesiveness. Printing stems / 5.1 / FX tracks is easy too. Obviously it takes a bit of forward thinking to work this way, especially if you use the same tracks in different cues and want to mix it differently.

If picture is locked, always 1 session for me. If not, then at least 3 sessions but I haven't ever split it up for each cue. I'm too obsessive / tweaky and always want to go back and change things as I work through the picture.


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## guydoingmusic (Nov 18, 2015)

Dean said:


> Question: not sure about your budget?,is it 5.1 mix? Have you agreed a number of stems for the mix guys? Are you doing final mix/ master?



I'll be mixing to 5.1 (quad for the music) but yeah, doing it all myself this time. 



Greg said:


> If picture is locked, always 1 session for me. If not, then at least 3 sessions but I haven't ever split it up for each cue.



That makes sense too. Picture is definitely not locked yet. I still think I will probably try the cue by cue approach first. If that becomes too cumbersome, I may see about switching to that.


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## Rctec (Nov 19, 2015)

Do cue by cue. Everything else - you're just asking for trouble - and potential extra work... Trust me, I've been there. But I record a finished cue from Cubase into protools, so we can watch a reel or the whole movie back to see how it all flows and fits together. (I carry picture in protools and not in the sequence. With picture changes you really want to have the movie on a separate player than in your sequencer. Like this I only have to adjust the start-time of the effected cues).
Since I start each project with a suite of music, I keep that, and all subsequent cues, in the sequence to copy and paste from. I just move it 'downstream' a few hundred bars to create space for the current cue... It's easier than having to pull in a file.Plus, What if it's a Huge Hit and they want a sequel? It's much better to have access to the individual cues as individual files.
And there is no such thing as "Locked Picture" ...unless you believe in "The check is in the mail..." 

-Hz-


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## guydoingmusic (Nov 19, 2015)

Rctec said:


> ...unless you believe in "The check is in the mail..."
> 
> -Hz-



So you're telling me.... those checks I've been waiting on... *frantically calls realtor - puts house up for sale 

Seriously though, thanks so much for taking the time to reply, Hans. Very helpful! I had been toying with the notion of running the video from either Logic or Protools. That will definitely be my next adventure(God I hope it's not that complicated to get it to work ).


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## Christof (Nov 19, 2015)

Ha, we have had this kind of thread some weeks ago!
Picture lock....what a terrible word.
Same here, cue by cue, and as Rctec mentioned it is great to access each cue separately for future use, I am in that situation right now, par 2 of a movie is just ahead.


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## guydoingmusic (Nov 19, 2015)

Christof said:


> Ha, we have had this kind of thread some weeks ago!


Doh!!! I even searched to see if I could find one. Must have missed that one!


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## Christof (Nov 19, 2015)

I think it's totally okay to have multiple threads concerning one topic.It's a very interesting one.


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