# Another cheat thread!



## Thlian (Jul 23, 2022)

Many many synths, keyboards and other custom made VST's, contains a lot of synth patches. Though many have a UI similar to the hardware instrument itself, there are more that has custom UI that has a blend of different types. Why I be considered to be a fraud when I don't know how to use the real deal, the hardware with all its knobs and buttons? But competent enough to use the software UI that looks nothing a like?

I am not going i to presets one more time. But patches 😂
That goes for them all, finished patches that can be looped like wav file, only difference is that it can be stretched. Patches are a bit more tidious than making a preset.
For instance, 8dio has the Christopher Young collection. A collection containing thousands of samples, presets and patches made by a composer and his collected work for decades. Using almost finished cinematic patches? Neh, bit unsure about that one, Grey area. Even though It's royalty free and available, but still, something that's partially already composer patches.... What do you think?


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## Justin L. Franks (Jul 23, 2022)

Don't worry about any of that, and just do whatever sounds best for the music you are writing.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 23, 2022)

Dude, who are these idiots in your surroundings who are making you so insecure about what you ”are allowed” to do? Stop hanging out with them, they’re doing you no good!

YOU decide what’s okay for you - don’t let other people make you insecure about your choices, if those choices feel okay to you


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## liquidlino (Jul 23, 2022)

Personally, the line for me is at the "song construction packs" where all the melodies, accompniaments drums etc are already assembled and produced and all the "composer" has to do is drag the wav loops into a DAW and arrange them. For me, that's not composing.

But beyond that, pretty much anything goes - samples, arps, sequences. Hell, most of the electronic music of the 90's was people cleverly stitching together samples of other published music, and overlaying with original riffs and melodies.

I echo what Henrik said - stop thinking in terms of "rules" and just have fun and literally, if it sounds good, it is good. The end listener won't care how you got there, and nor should you.

There's a great copy-pasta from reddit, let me find it...

_"I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using pre-made skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I'm not sure where to go from here. I haven't made any music lately, with the goat farming and all."_


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## Bman70 (Jul 23, 2022)

A lot of it is very subjective, based on your goals and what you're getting out of the composition process.

I mean, if you use precomposed loops by someone else, and a fan loves the music and says, "I love your writing on that piano solo!"... it's at that point you have to sheepishly admit that you didn't really write it, or play it, but you produced the song using other people's recordings. "Combined with my own bits here and there," you can add, hoping to wipe the disappointment from their face. 
(This isn't just hypothetical, because I remember trying to explain what a sample is when someone asked did I play the flute part.)

Whereas when I released a CD in 2004, it was all my own lyrics and singing accompanied by my own piano and guitar music. There's definitely a certain kind of satisfaction involved in being the sole creator of a work.

But if you don't care about being seen as writing original songs and music, and just need to produce a track, that's not worse, just a different situation. It can be more efficacious for paid / deadline work too. When I was scoring a synth-only film track for a contest, I just grabbed a pen and raced through Omnisphere writing down about 20 patches I wanted to use, then used them as-is. It was still great, and satisfying to create a track, but in a different way.


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## Thlian (Jul 24, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> Personally, the line for me is at the "song construction packs" where all the melodies, accompniaments drums etc are already assembled and produced and all the "composer" has to do is drag the wav loops into a DAW and arrange them. For me, that's not composing.
> 
> But beyond that, pretty much anything goes - samples, arps, sequences. Hell, most of the electronic music of the 90's was people cleverly stitching together samples of other published music, and overlaying with original riffs and melodies.
> 
> ...


That reference sounds a lot like that person who decided to stopp drinking, but had to have one sip of the first few wine bottles.....Well you can imagine the rest, when he drank the bottles and threw away the zink and then the house 😂

To answer some of the above, I don't have friends or people around me that composer music. I know a lot of musicians, but I don't have open forum nights where we discuss what's right and wrong. Ever seen that movie, " Me, myself and Irene"? Though I have no Irene and don't get psychotic. I still get a lot of trouble discussing shit with myself and with that some less reasonable questions occur. I have a hard time discussing with my stubborn self.

I actually too would draw the line at melodic packs. But 90's and early 2000 was full of remixes of other great cover songs. It could be fun playing around with something already there, make it base layer and add all cool stuff. But that is not really what I'm going for. I like compositions, soundtracks and those are a bit more difficult to use as a base layer for another compositions. 

But yet again you convince me and actually urge to use them. Though my library is not complete, I have no idea what to buy. When looking at ProjectSam VST's I think they sound great. But still they don't offer all that I'm looking for. Then I stopped at 8dio, which has a lot of great dels now. They have a shit load of awsomeness! But then I think, "Won't this look stupid, buying so much from one vendour?" 
They have hybrid tools, synths, strings in unconventional ways. They have everything I'm looking for.

But some of the tools have so much pre made stuff, hence why the question came up!

I come to think about something, if I get asked when and if I get a whole track done. (You see I don't even record when listening my way through libraries, twisting knobs and adjusting eq's, wavetables, envelopes, osc's and so on.) "Hey! Cool stuff, what's your base melody?"
My mind is weird! Melody? I like putting together a collage of chaos, no melody here. But it fits and sounds cool as F**K! 

I pardon for my writing, I tend to loose my resonance. Like Morten Harket once said; "Excuse me, what was the question again".
This was halfway through his answer 🥴


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## PebbleStream (Aug 19, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> There's a great copy-pasta from reddit, let me find it...
> 
> _"I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using pre-made skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I'm not sure where to go from here. I haven't made any music lately, with the goat farming and all."_


LOL, that copypasta sounds like myself... Currently at the "learning to play drums for real" stage, will let you all know how the goat farming goes...


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## osterdamus (Aug 19, 2022)

Thlian said:


> But some of the tools have so much pre made stuff, hence why the question came up!


Even if you start a track with pre-made stuff, it doesn’t mean that is has to be in the end product. It can be a driver to get you started, but then it’s up to you if you want to keep in the track and / or replace it. Everything is inspiration, everything is a tool, just consider when to use them - in the track and in the process. 
This can apply to your personal journey as well - relying on more pre-made stuff in the beginning (and make some wins), and as you learn what works in tracks and find your voice, you may start making them by yourself - a gradual change over time.


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