# Anyone using Studio One ?



## G.E. (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm curious if anyone is using Studio One in the context of large orchestral templates,besides me :D
Honestly, I love this DAW and I'm surprised that so few people ever mention it.Everything is so intuitive and easy to use,plus every day I discover some cool new trick that makes me love it even more.The only thing I feel is missing is a expression map feature similar to what cubase has. 

If you're using it,what's your favorite thing about it and what do you think it's missing ?


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## Ron Snijders (Mar 10, 2014)

Well, I'm not using it with big orchestral templates yet, since I'm nowhere near where I need to be to make that work in my mockup skills. But I do use it daily for everything I do. I love how it just works. After working with S1 for a while, I tried Cubase and Protools, but they just feel so clunky. Not being able to simply drag and drop everything around (instruments, effects, files, windows) in other DAWs just feels cumbersome.
What I would love to see in S1 is being able to edit a part of an audio event without having to cut it. Like in Protools, you can change the volume of a small bit of a WAV without having to cut it up.
Oh, and I find the undo function a bit odd. I expect ctrl+z to undo whatever action I did last, but S1 doesn't undo changes in the mixer.


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## Dr.Quest (Mar 10, 2014)

I've been using it for quite awhile. Dave Coscina was using it and I got interested. I think it is one of the most intuitive DAWs I've ever used. Love how fast it is to create tracks. Major complaint for me is there is no key command to step forward or back a frame at a time.
The access to everything is superior to most. 
I've used them all and recently have got back to DP8 since I love the chunks feature working with film. But it really feels clunky compared to Studio One.
For anyone interested, they are having a 50% off sale right now.


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## maestro2be (Mar 10, 2014)

I have used it since it's release date but went back to Cubase for the moment. I do orchestral stuff however the things that annoy me and make it very hard for me are:

1. Having no midi track makes it impossible to have effective mixer track organization and color scheme using VE PRO 5. Due to it being an instrument track only, when you change anything such as create a bus, it changes the entire project. That pushed me back to Cubase.

2. There are not "Group Tracks" as in Cubase and so I cannot easily sum the groups together (such as 3 separate layered violas, group track them into one). Instead I am forced to have to control 3 separate mixers. (this ties into the explanation at the bottom dealing with transform to audio/freezing issues I face in Studio One).

3. No VST Expression Maps.

4. The color scheme is just to basic for bigger projects for me. The colors look like putting windows in basic 16 color mode compared to Cubase. I tried very hard to stick with it, thinking soon they would do something but it took way to long (I have been a user since the day they released Studio One).

5. No Track Archives.

6. Their famous transform to audio feature is crippling to my workflow compared to Cubase. While it's an amazing feature, it's absolutely horrible for people with lots of tracks and external hardware units. (I will explain below).

I am constantly finding limitations in it that cripple me that even though Cubase may seem clunky and messy, once it's setup with a great template it's quite amazing.

I work with external hardware such as Bricasti M7 so I am forced to always do realtime bounces/freeze/transform. The issue with this in Studio One is this:

1. Let's say I have Dimension Strings in my song. That's 8 violins 1, 8 violins 2, 6 violas, 6 celli and 4 double basses.

2. Now I want to save CPU resources by "transform to audio" my violins 1 and violas because they are done.

3. I highlight them and click on Transform to audio and wow, what happens? It decides in realtime, to literally do each track, one by one. Taking a good hour to do a 5 minute song. God help you if you need to make changes to those sections because you will be waiting another hour when it's time to re-transform them.

4. So I think to myself, no problem. I can just do what Cubase does and create "group tracks" that I can send my sections to, then send those group tracks to a single audio track section. Then when I record arm it, I can in realtime record them all to one track. Done in 3-5 minutes, not 1 hour. Nope, they don't have group tracks. There goes that idea.

5. Because Studio One only uses Instrument tracks, you can't reduce your CPU by muting sections like you can with Cubase VST Rack with Midi tracks. In Studio One, if you have 100 tracks playing in MIR PRO, hit mute on all but your one section and notice that even though you muted all the other sections, the computer doesn't see any savings in resources. I swore this used to work, but it hasn't for me for some time.

However, now do that in Cubase using VST Rack with midi instruments. If I mute everything but violins, my computer resources are like 80% less because it's not actually processing those tracks in the background even though they are muted.

I know people constantly rave about Studio One transform but for me, it's unusable.

All in all though as negative as this sounds I find Studio One the most intuitive and speedy DAW ever. I can do things probably 5 times faster in Studio One than Cubase. However, when I hit one of the above show stoppers, I am constantly reminded that this program isn't ready for competing against Cubase in terms of midi control and performance. I will definitely upgrade to V3 when it comes, because they are very close. Fix the things I put above as well as the things you see in the feature wish list and watch how many more people jump on ship. Custom Skins etc. it will become a win win DAW. Plus their integration with Melodyne is just awesome.

Mastro2be


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## Jacob Cadmus (Mar 10, 2014)

I've used S1 in about 99% of my scores last year. It's really smooth as far as sequencing and MIDI editing goes, and I would still be using it if I didn't have major problems with video playback. Most of the videos I imported would either crash the DAW or just make it lag really bad. It was likely an audio driver issue; I bought a PreSonus Audiobox and it fixed everything, but only when the sample rate was at 44.1 kHz (which I don't use because my collaborators are very anal about using 48 kHz). I've tried ReWire of other DAWs for video, but the sync messes up once you make tempo changes.

Not sure if anyone else has had those problems in S1, but they were enough for me to make a switch.


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## G.E. (Mar 10, 2014)

> 3. I highlight them and click on Transform to audio and wow, what happens? It decides in realtime, to literally do each track, one by one. Taking a good hour to do a 5 minute song. God help you if you need to make changes to those sections because you will be waiting another hour when it's time to re-transform them.



I don't agree with you on this one.I hope you are exaggerating when you say 1 hour.I constantly move back and forth between audio and midi so I have a lot of experience with the transform to audio feature.It takes me 30 seconds to transform to audio a 4 minute long track.But usually my tracks aren't that long so they're done in 10 seconds or less.



> 5. Because Studio One only uses Instrument tracks, you can't reduce your CPU by muting sections like you can with Cubase VST Rack with Midi tracks. In Studio One, if you have 100 tracks playing in MIR PRO, hit mute on all but your one section and notice that even though you muted all the other sections, the computer doesn't see any savings in resources.


As a workaround for this I have all my template frozen (transformed to audio).My computer couldn't handle all 400 tracks I have in my template anyway.


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## maestro2be (Mar 10, 2014)

G.E. @ Mon Mar 10 said:


> > 3. I highlight them and click on Transform to audio and wow, what happens? It decides in realtime, to literally do each track, one by one. Taking a good hour to do a 5 minute song. God help you if you need to make changes to those sections because you will be waiting another hour when it's time to re-transform them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unfortunately I wish I was exaggerating but I am not. Having my Bricasti M7 in my project causes it to have to render in real time. I would be ok with that, if it was one pass all tracks but it's not. It's one pass per track, times track count for how many tracks I have selected to transform. You add the math for 34 tracks at 3-5 minute song and that's just strings.

As for the transforming to audio to save CPU, again that's exactly the same type of tactic I use only that it works better in Cubase as I described in great detail. I can bounce every single track I have in a section, using group tracks in one pass in realtime in Cubase and instantly save all that CPU resources. In Studio One, I don't have that kind of time to sit there waiting for each track to "transform". I very much use this same process to minimize resources, but it's completely useless when it takes excruciating times to accomplish.

All I can say is that I have high hopes for them to improve these kinds of things because I have been as I said, using them since the day they released. I still use it on songs that don't require huge sections etc. because the workflow is just unreal fast. I can't explain it, it just seems to connect with how I think. I know it sounds harsh the things I am saying but I really am an S1 fanboy just waiting for them to mature some more. My wife and I talk frequently about how much I love S1 but it's just missing a few things that really slow me down.

Maestro2be


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## Ron Snijders (Mar 11, 2014)

Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't it actually make sense to bounce the tracks one by one? Wouldn't you get a reverb containing all the instruments in your section on every individual track otherwise? Or is that actually what you want to achieve?
What happens if you create a buss and then an audio track that records from that buss? To me that would seem like a workaround for the lack of group tracks, but yet again, I might be missing something because I don't work in that way


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## maestro2be (Mar 11, 2014)

Ron Snijders @ Tue Mar 11 said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't it actually make sense to bounce the tracks one by one? Wouldn't you get a reverb containing all the instruments in your section on every individual track otherwise? Or is that actually what you want to achieve?
> What happens if you create a buss and then an audio track that records from that buss? To me that would seem like a workaround for the lack of group tracks, but yet again, I might be missing something because I don't work in that way



Hi Ron,

I personally don't want to bounce each track one by one in real time waiting hours for a 3-5 minute song to make audio files. You try to imagine how long it will take, to bounce 1 track of a 100+ track song, in realtime, times 3-5 minutes per track and then let me know how that works out for you .

Sure I could work without my Bricasti and MIR PRO in my projects and then it would work fine, processing with offline speeds. But that's not how I work. I won't work with 100+ tracks that are bone ass dry with no effects or processing just to get offline rendering speeds. And I won't use cheap reverb fx channels "to just get me by for now until the mixing stage to add these and realize the sound is completely different and the midi performance needs tweaking again". It's just not how I like to work. Been there done that for years.

You can't create a bus because as I said in #1, when you create a bus in S1, it changes every single instrument in your project that is associated with the multi you are working with to that bus at the same time. So if you are using VE PRO 5 to host ALL of your instruments like I do, changing the bus on say Violin 1, of Violins 1 will change every single track in the entire project to that bus. Imagine that happening to you and let me know how long you would put up with it lol . They need a group track that isn't tied to the multi-timbral instrument but don't offer one.

The exact same thing will happen if you use a Kontakt Multi, or Omnisphere Multi etc. S1 see's them as instrument tracks that are all related to the multi-timbral VST you are using on that channel. If you change the color of Violin 1, of Violins 1 which uses VE PRO as I do, it will change every single instrument in my entire project to that color in one instant process. It's a huge pain in the ass is what it is. They have no work around for this because they only offer instrument track, audio track, folder track or automation track. You need a "midi" track to accomplish this. If you don't work with multi-timbrals then you will never see this issue. Go ahead and work with a Multi, then go to the mixer channel and move the channels around, change a few things like color or busses and then watch it throw them in random orders, colors and busses .

So working in Cubase, the idea you had about a bus is exactly how it works for me. I send my violins 1 to a "group track" called Violins 1 that works as a bus. Then I have 1 audio input called Violins 1 listening to that group track. Done.

I can now in real-time record the entire section at once. Then mute that midi section, hide it with track visibility and all the resources are free (except memory which I don't need). If I want to make changes to the performance, I unhide, unmute and make the midi performance changes, delete the old recording and redo the above step. It may sound difficult but it's actually a breeze to work with once you witness it.

I have high hopes they will address these issues with V3. I would imagine it takes a lot of code updating. I patiently await going back to S1 and I still use it for small ensembles that don't require huge track counts or have live instruments (audio tracks don't have these issues, only multi-timbral instrument tracks).

I will repeat that I am not an S1 basher as I love the program and if you are not bothered by the above issues, they don't pertain to you or you have your own type of work arounds, S1 is absolutely amazing. If I compare side by side things I can do in both programs, I can do them faster in S1. They just need to put some more horsepower in the midi engine for orchestral type users as well as EDM users. Their audio system is magical to work with (melodyne integration and mastering page). I still do all my mastering with S1 after I bounce my sections to audio tracks in Cubase.

Maestro2be


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## Ron Snijders (Mar 11, 2014)

The 'makes sense' thing was more from a DAW perspective than a user perspective. Of course I don't want to wait for hours while my DAW is bouncing down tracks  What I mean is that from the DAW it might make sense to do it one by one, so you don't have the reverb tail of your basses printed in the audio track for your violins.

As for the busses, I don't really get what you mean. When I create a few instrument tracks and send them to different MIDI channels in a single Kontakt instance and route the different instruments in Kontakt to different outputs, I can buss them any way I want. Then I create a new audio track and set that to record from the buss I just created, do a single pass and have the entire buss printed. Moving the mixer channels for the individual Kontakt outputs around doesn't change anything in the timeline. Moving the audio track that is receiving the buss around does make a slight mess, though. Same with colours. Only the audio track is linked 1-on-1 from the mixer to the timeline, the instrument parts and their outputs aren't.
Or am I completely missing your point?

Not saying that you're bashing S1, by the way. Even if you did, that wouldn't make me like it any less  Just trying to understand what you're missing and if there might be a way to fix it.


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## maestro2be (Mar 11, 2014)

Hi Ron,

You are very close indeed to understanding. The only difference is that you are using 1 instance of kontakt, directly within S1. You already pointed out that you have issues with that, certain ones that I also have. This is majorly less troublesome than my environment because if you have several Kontakt sessions, they are all "seperate" within S1.

Now, I want you to imagine, take every single kontakt instance you have for an orchestral piece (let's say you have 25-30 Kontakts). I want you to NOT host them in S1 anymore. Move all 25-30 into VE PRO 5.

Now that they are in VE PRO 5, you are no longer dealing with "individual Kontakt Instances" which gives you a "little" bit of a less troublesome environment from an S1 standpoint. You are now dealing with ONE session of VE PRO 5. This makes S1 treat every single instrument in your entire project as ONE unit. Therefore, any change I make to one unit changes my entire song. You cannot create individual busses for the sections without causing the system to send every section in the whole VE PRO instance to go to that bus.

There is no other way I know around it other than to:

1. Dump VE PRO 5/MIR PRO entirely and work strictly inside the DAW and never link any of them together/share the same VST host. Now you have a mixer that is so large that it's unmanageable (although I can just hide all of the midi tracks and only show busses) as well as I no longer have my reverb host and thirdly I lose any chance of track archives because VE PRO can do them, but S1 cannot. The list is even larger but those come to mind instantly.

2. Create a seperate VE PRO 5/MIR PRO VST host session for every single section within my entire template. Violins 1, Violins 2, etc. All the way through Brass, woodwinds, percussion etc. However again, every bus, color etc. is forced upon me for every track that is sharing the same VE PRO host.

I am certainly open to ideas or fixes if they are there so I appreciate the input.

**EDIT - I have considered the idea of doing a song using exactly what I said above. Individual instrumen tracks for every single instrument in the song. I would gain the ability to reduce each track from my song to restore resources 1 by 1 as well as keep a perfect color scheme/track organization. Especially with MIR PRO being a VST plug-in now directly in the DAW. I have never set it up that way yet but another thing that comes to mind is that S1 has a serious CPU spike issue with some plug-ins. SSL Bus compressor causes a 20% CPU Spike every few seconds and that's just one plug-in. Not even one of my plug-ins do that in Cubase ever.**

Maestro2be


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## Ron Snijders (Mar 11, 2014)

Meh, my free Vienna Ensemble doesn't allow me to use any non-VSL instruments. Routing MIDI to separate channels in VE and getting separate audio channels back (and bussing them as required) is no problem, same as when using Kontakt within S1. I can't try stuff out in routing MIDI and audio to and from Kontakt within VE, though :(
I did just notice the colour thing you mentioned. When I change the colour of a track on the timeline, it changes all the VE mixer channels' colours as well. But it doesn't do that the other way around. Seems a bit odd indeed.

Still having a bit of trouble to understand why you can't buss the way you would like in the VE-setup, though. When trying it out, I can create some Instrument tracks, send them to one of the 128 MIDI channels in VE, route the audio to a pair of the 32 outputs in VE and receive that pair as a mixer channel in S1. Then I create a buss for the mixer channels I would like to export together, create a stereo audio track and have it take input from the buss I just created and do a realtime record on that stereo track. None of the VE outputs I don't want on the buss are sent to it. Is there some additional routing required when using Kontakt within VE that fails in this way?


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## maestro2be (Mar 11, 2014)

I am going to make a video tonight to show these problems . That should give a really good example of what's happening.

Maestro2be


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## G.E. (Mar 11, 2014)

maestro2be @ Tue Mar 11 said:


> I am going to make a video tonight to show these problems . That should give a really good example of what's happening.
> 
> Maestro2be



I would like to see that as well.I don't completely understand your problems either and it would be good to know for future reference.


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## Ron Snijders (Mar 11, 2014)

maestro2be @ Tue 11 Mar said:


> I am going to make a video tonight to show these problems . That should give a really good example of what's happening.
> 
> Maestro2be


Haha, sorry for making you go through all these questions! A video would be very clear I think  It'll at least show the limitations of S1. And maybe someone here knows a way to work around it


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## Farkle (Mar 11, 2014)

I have it, and love it. I do full orchestral mockups with it (big template, about 15 GB, LASS, Cinebrass/Cinewinds/Cineperc, Evolve, etc). I do sound design for Play Eternal in it, it's got fantastic clip based FX. 

The workflow is stupendous, I love it. There are only 1-2 things I'd like to see changed/added.

1. Step sequence input. I used to use DP, and I loved that I could input string runs and harp glisses by putting them in step time. Please add this!

2. Improved Tempo changes. I can't draw a gradual Ritardando or Accelerando line in the tempo map. It would help for my mockup realism.

3. I'd like a bit more customization to the UI color scheme... it's clean, but kind of grey and not too "creatively exciting". In fact, DP's new UI selections, and Sonar's is very good also.

Honestly, I think it's one of the best DAW's out there. Yes, there are limitations, for example, no 5.1 mixing... but for my needs (mid-level video games, TV spots, and production library music), it is fast and fun to work in.

Oh, and regarding big templates, I run everything internally inside S1. I have like 13 Kontakt instances, all running internally in Studio One. I don't use any outboard reverbs, but it runs very well, my bouncing is very tight, and I do like it!

Mike


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## G.E. (Mar 11, 2014)

> 1. Step sequence input. I used to use DP, and I loved that I could input string runs and harp glisses by putting them in step time. Please add this!
> 
> 2. Improved Tempo changes. I can't draw a gradual Ritardando or Accelerando line in the tempo map. It would help for my mockup realism.



I was just think about this the other day and would love to see this added as well.I was watching someone working in DP and wished S1 also had a step record feature.
Tempo draw would be nice as well,even though it's not that big of a deal at the moment for me.But it would be nice knowing that it's available in case I need it.You can still do a ritardando as it is if you chop a tempo section into multiple small pieces and gradually make each one lower than the previous one.But that is more time consuming.It would be easier to just draw it in.


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## maestro2be (Mar 11, 2014)

Here is the video to show some of my issues. I had forgotten about the tempo track issues as well. That really needs an update as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PXvUfGmxGA

Maestro2be


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## G.E. (Mar 11, 2014)

maestro2be @ Wed Mar 12 said:


> Here is the video to show some of my issues. I had forgotten about the tempo track issues as well. That really needs an update as well.
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/watch/5emnctk9jiftim8/S1_Issues.mp4 (http://www.mediafire.com/watch/5emnctk9 ... Issues.mp4)
> 
> Maestro2be



WOW! It indeed behaves very weird.I will probably never have to deal with this since I don't have a reason to use VE pro or an external reverb.Could you also send this video to Presonus so they can be aware of these problems ? If we're lucky maybe we'll get a fix in a future update.


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## Ron Snijders (Mar 12, 2014)

Ah, yes, that does clearly show some problems! I actually never thought to buss from folder tracks. I always create my busses by selecting mixer channels and adding a buss from there. It does look rather unworkable in that particular setup, with the tracks jumping all around the place.
For the external reverb problem I can only come up with a rather clunky workaround: Send the output of the FX return to a buss, create a stereo audio track that takes input from that buss, record a playthrough so you'll have the FX return printed, remove the send from all of the instruments (what a drag...) and use transform to audio to print those.
Which isn't great at all, of course. Actually it kindof sucks. I can imagine you prefer Cubase for these things!


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## maestro2be (Mar 12, 2014)

The issue with clicking some tracks and then creating a bus from those is that still, in S1 it sees my VE PRO as one instrument unit. Therefore, when I click create bus from tracks it will only work once (because it thinks it is creating a bus for the ENTIRE VE PRO session instrument...).

I still love the application and looking forward to it's future.

I wanted to list some things that I love from them:

1. The CPU meter. Seems stupid but, you can click show details and literally see every single thread that is taking resources from WITHIN Studio One. I was able to see that in one of my projects, my SSL Bus compressor was hitting 20-40% CPU and causing constant spikes every 4-5 seconds. I disabled it and boom, CPU spiking stopped.

2. The midi legato feature. A few years ago I sent in an idea of how they should implement that legato and they did it! Giving it legato, legato overlap and reduction etc. they told me they loved the idea but I had no idea they would actually do it. This speeds up my midi performance quite a lot.

3. The Macro System - Enough said. This thing rocks.

4. Ultimate drag and drop workflow. Nothing compares to the ease they have using drag and drop for almost everything.

5. Track List - Yes they were the first to implement this and I was immediately hooked. Yes thanks Cubase for also taking this idea, but I give credit to S1 for actually creating it first.
 
6. Melodyne - HELL YES!! This integration is amazing! I upgraded to the full Editor it's so good!

7. Midi Controller Lanes. I just really love how they do their midi controller lanes allowing me to so easily keep all midi performance inside the midi performance, instead of using actual S1 track/system automation. This is great because even in 5 years from now, I can open my midi performance in any DAW and it will have my CC1, CC7, CC11, CC21 etc. I love the lanes.

8. VST3 support. Not sure if everyone has this now or not, but I am thankful for this.

9. The start/create page - I just love this screen. It just feels so comfortable to start a new project. Very inspiring!

10. Mastering Page - The mastering system built right into S1 is the best! It's so intuitive and responsive. It's my favorite mastering system ever (to date).

11. The Saving system - I did a video on Youtube about all the ways you can save. Between versions and the other options it's really covering all bases.

12. Window Management. I love being able to so comfortably see my edit window and my arrange window, but with one click detach any window I want and stick it on any monitor of my choice and full screen this. I really love this feature.

13. The Browser. Huge time saver.

Maestro2be


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## Ron Snijders (Mar 13, 2014)

When I create a buss from the individual instrument tracks on the arrangement, I can indeed only create a single buss.
But when I select the output channels in the mixer and create a buss from there, none of this erratic behaviour appears to happen. I can create as many busses as I want and none of them influence one another.

Nice list! I have to say the 'drag and drop anything'-part is the main reason why I dislike working in other DAWs. It just feels so outdated to have to click in a specific place to create a send, rather than just drag my reverb to the 'sends' section of a mixer channel and get an FX return created and routed from that send. A spoiled brat, that's what I am!


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## G.E. (Mar 13, 2014)

+1 for drag and drop.It's cool that it works both ways.Here's an example to explain what I mean:
The other day I wrote an 8 bar phrase and it didn't quite fit the thing I was working on.But I really liked the idea and still wanted to use it in another piece.I just dragged and dropped the midi clip into the browser and that's all it took to save it.


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## maestro2be (Mar 13, 2014)

Ron,

It's funny that you said this about the bus. Last night I literally spent my evening re-attempting to find any possible workaround for these types of behaviors. I also found that if you open the mixer window and right click and say add bus directly from the mixer window (by either right clicking in a blank area of the mixer section, or right clicking below the "Instruments" window and say create bus. This bus in fact does not have ANY relationship with your instruments and acts very similar to a group channel in Cubase. I was them able to individually assign my outputs to these busses without any issues. However, you still cannot send the folder track bus output to it or else the same behavior follows. Still, I consider this a workaround that is quite effective.

Additionally, I contemplated the idea of hiding all of my Instrument channel mixer channels at that point. Then route them all to their own non-associated bus channel. Then create an audio mixdown section track layout just as you seen in my Cubase video. Now I have the same exact flow: Instruments to group bus to audio input channel. Then, after all of my individual instrument channels are setup with EQ's, Sends etc. I can simply hide them all from my eyes. This way I am only seeing the busses and audio input channels within my mixer window. At that point, I never see anymore strangeness such as channel orders changing, losing instruments because the mixer window changed, colors of the mixer channels remain static, even if I decide to change my arrange window track colors etc. It's basically a win win for me as long as I don't obsess over when I need to modify my specific instrument track, I will have to unhide it, it will have some random color and I will have to search the mixer window for its name. It's not perfect, but it's workable as long as it was setup properly in the beginning.

Another item I wanted to add to the absolutely love about Studio One list is the ability to re-connect any device during startup that you forgot about. I can't begin to tell you how many times this has saved me having to reload everything. How many times I was in a hurry and opened a song in Cubase that takes 15 minutes to open the template, load VE PRO etc. only to find that I forgot to start my Lemur drivers or hit the power switch on my USB Keyboard. I would have to shutdown Cubase and start over. In Studio One, when I launch the application it tells me right then, hey, you forgot to turn on or connect the devices that you have setup in your devices window. Would you like to connect them now, yes or no? If yes, turn them on and simply click yes and voila. Everything connects and Studio One marches on.

I am going to do another video tonight on showing this workaround idea of exactly what bus creation I am talking about to show my signal flow in S1. But I do believe this is the same bus channel that you were talking about Ron.

Maestro2be


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## Uorbit (Mar 13, 2014)

Thanks maestro2be...

Looking forward to your new workflow video


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## maestro2be (Mar 13, 2014)

So here is the video I did to show you how I setup my instrument tracks to a group bus track and then to an audio track, just as I did in Cubase and it's working perfectly after some manual setup. This is also where I show the different location to create a bus, which creates a bus that isn't actually tied to any instrument which is exactly what I needed.

Also, in the video I said there were a couple of options to remove resources but then didn't actually show any . Because I only hide mine in the track list, but I am sure you all know what I meant and you could do many things such as remove the instruments themselves to free up memory, or to use Kontakt or VI PRO to reduce sample count to only what's needed for the song etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1FfjrMvcpY

Maestro2be


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## Ron Snijders (Mar 14, 2014)

Yes, that's exactly what I meant! Glad that works out for you 
I guess the reason that we weren't on the same page is that I never considered that there was any other way to create busses than the one you're showing in the latest video, so I couldn't get my head around why it wasn't working for you. I usually just select the output track and use 'Add buss for selected tracks', rather than create the buss and route manually. Saves a few clicks and still creates busses that are not associated with the instrument tracks 

You went over it pretty quickly in the vid, but I do think you'd need to record your FX return for the Bricasti separately while doing the single recording run of each section. The way you're recording right now just gets you dry audio, and adding the Bricasti to the section mixdowns would obviously deny you control of the reverb amount for each individual library.


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## WhitePhaser (Mar 14, 2014)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1FfjrMvcpY
Great o-[][]-o
maestro2be would it be ok to link this video in the "Studio One User Videos"


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## maestro2be (Mar 14, 2014)

Absolutely! Go for it! I always try to help them out when I can.

And also be sure to update your link to the first video, because I moved it from Mediafire, to Youtube as well.

Maestro2be


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## G.E. (Mar 14, 2014)

Pretty good workaround,though I'm guessing you're still not completely satisfied and sticking to cubase for now.


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## emid (Mar 14, 2014)

@Maestro2be
Great tutorial. Actually I was wondering if I am doing something wrong regarding colours management but now turned out that this is default S1 behaviour. 

One more thing I am trying is if I can permanently assign expression CC or other CCs' that are in use globally; like all new templates have them assigned automatically or by default. Example is mod wheel. Currently I know of one method only which is to assign expression etc individually.

Is there any possibility to do so?


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## maestro2be (Mar 14, 2014)

G.E. I do intend to keep working in Cubase for my big orchestrations. There are just to many advantages in Cubase for big midi projects. I do still intend to always use S1 for small ensembles or quartets and things like real audio tracks though because the flow is just much more intuitive for me personally.

Emid,

Sure thing. Tell me exactly what it is you're trying to accomplish. I see you want to assign global parameters to CC but give me a walk through or exact example of how you want it to work or expect it to work and I will try to help you out.

Maestro2be


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## emid (Mar 14, 2014)

maestro2be @ Fri Mar 14 said:


> Sure thing. Tell me exactly what it is you're trying to accomplish. I see you want to assign global parameters to CC but give me a walk through or exact example of how you want it to work or expect it to work and I will try to help you out.



First of all thank you.

Well, in easy words as we open S1 the mod wheel is assigned by default. What should be done if I want CC11 to be assigned to a dedicated fader on my midi keyboard in the same manner as mod wheel by default? The key point is it should effect all instruments (by default), but not all at once. 

To elaborate more, I hope you use Kontakt. Now e.g., load 2 instruments and make 2 instrument channels in S1 corresponding each instrument.

Add expression CC11 for midi channel 1 and 2 from drop down menu of Kontakt window Automation Mode (left side of Kontakt window). Close Kontakt.

Move a fader and assign it to Expression CC11. CC11 is assigned to the fader which you have just moved.

Play first instrument. CC11 will work perfectly by moving the fader.

Play instrument 2. CC11 will not work. It will still work with instrument #1.

I hope I am clear in my interpretation until now. So here are my questions. 

First, why the assigned fader is not effecting instrument #2? 
Second, how CC11 is assigned so that it could effect all channels (armed channels)? 
Lastly, if you propose a solution, is there any way that S1 remembers it and assigns it by default everytime you open it? 

I may be missing something very easy. I understand this may be because S1 does not have midi channels. I don't currently have expression pedal but I am ok with midi keyboard faders for now. 

Thank you very much again.


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## maestro2be (Mar 14, 2014)

I understand exactly what you are trying to do.

I do mine as a global control command directly from my midi controller. In fact I have 2 controllers, IPad using Lemur which does anything I want with a simple amount of programming and then just as simple (probably even easier actually) is to simply change the global parameter of my actual midi keyboard.

For this, you don't do it in Studio One (I prefer to do it right in the keybaords controller because then it works in ALL my DAWs).

So do you have an IPad controller?

What kind of keyboard controller do you have?

I will make a quick video tomorrow of how easy it is on my keyboard (Arturia Analag Exerpience) to get what you want.

Maestro2be


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## emid (Mar 15, 2014)

maestro2be @ Sat Mar 15 said:


> I understand exactly what you are trying to do.
> 
> I do mine as a global control command directly from my midi controller. In fact I have 2 controllers, IPad using Lemur which does anything I want with a simple amount of programming and then just as simple (probably even easier actually) is to simply change the global parameter of my actual midi keyboard.
> 
> ...



No, I do not have iPad. Never needed it. My keyboard is Alesis QX49. 

I will wait for your video. Alesis support is horrible as well as the controller guide. May be I will learn something from your video as I have from your previous one.

Many thanks.


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## maestro2be (Mar 15, 2014)

Emid,

So here is a video of how easy this is to accomplish using my controller keyboard. I can also do this just as easily with my Lemur. Just understand that to accomplish what you want you need a controller to do it. Studio One has amazing learning capabilities, however it cannot generate for you random controller lanes yet (Sort of like Cubase Quick Controls). Although straight from the horses mouth, S3 is coming late summer/fall so who knows what we will get then.

My advice to you would be focus on just one thing. Your Controller Keyboard. Because once you learn how to do this, you will be able to make any setup you want and it will work with any DAW, at any time from one single source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcLvDYLlxxI&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcLvDYLl ... e=youtu.be)

Maestro2be


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## woodsdenis (Mar 15, 2014)

maestro2be @ Wed Mar 12 said:


> Here is the video to show some of my issues. I had forgotten about the tempo track issues as well. That really needs an update as well.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PXvUfGmxGA
> 
> Maestro2be



That creating a bus from folder tracks problem never happens to me, I do it all the time, I don't use VEpro now but I used to and never saw that behavior, very strange.
Post this on the Presonus forum, LMike or Bill Edstrum could possibly figure this out.

EDIT I see what you are doing now, why dont you create a different VEPro Instance for each section , that way the folder bussing would work, the color issue for each instance doesn't.

I agree about a lot of the issues that people have , it is far from perfect but it is so quick and intuitive I use it all the time. Would I mix a complicated project in it, Protools wins every time for that. For 90% of what I do its perfect.


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## G.E. (Mar 15, 2014)

> S3 is coming late summer/fall so who knows what we will get then.


 >8o >8o >8o 

Where did you hear about this? Maybe I should spend more time on the Presonus forum.I've been "nagging" them about expression maps but I doubt they will have it in version 3 or if they will ever have it.One can always dream though...
One thing which I'm excited about and *I'm almost sure* they will have in version 3 is Notion integrated in the UI like melodyne.There's no way they're not doing that after they acquired the company last year.

Anyway,you just made my day. :D


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## emid (Mar 15, 2014)

maestro2be @ Sat Mar 15 said:


> Emid,
> 
> So here is a video of how easy this is to accomplish using my controller keyboard. I can also do this just as easily with my Lemur. Just understand that to accomplish what you want you need a controller to do it. Studio One has amazing learning capabilities, however it cannot generate for you random controller lanes yet (Sort of like Cubase Quick Controls). Although straight from the horses mouth, S3 is coming late summer/fall so who knows what we will get then.
> 
> ...



Sure and thank you VERY much for your time and effort. I am going to check the video out right now. And indeed, I always wanted to learn my controller but here, I don't want to go on ranting about Alesis support.


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## woodsdenis (Mar 15, 2014)

G.E. @ Sat Mar 15 said:


> > S3 is coming late summer/fall so who knows what we will get then.
> 
> 
> >8o >8o >8o
> ...



There was vid from messe today where someone was describing a timeline for releases.


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## PJMorgan (Mar 15, 2014)

IMO Studio One is great for singer song writer or band recording/composition, it's very fast & easy to use in that regard. But for scoring or any kind of music that requires delving a bit more into sound design territory, it's definitely lacking.

I've had it for a while & really wanted to like it, it was great for what we were using it for at the time (a band writing/playing/recording) but when you want to do anything more advanced, especially when it comes to midi there's a definite deficiency. I also found automation a bit fiddlie to work with, plus using instrument tracks compared to other DAW's I used previously (Reaper & Ableton Live) can be a bit awkward too.

I've always been on the hunt for the almost perfect DAW (lets face it, nothings perfect...or is it?) then when I moved from windows to Mac & Logic Pro X finally came out, I think I've found it. AFAIC the balance between features & usability is there with Logic Pro X, great FX, Instruments, UI & way more advanced when it comes to midi & working with video.

I keep meaning to sell Studio One Pro, but maybe I'm holding in to it in case version 3 is a major step up from where it is now.


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## G.E. (Mar 15, 2014)

PJMorgan @ Sun Mar 16 said:


> IMO Studio One is great for singer song writer or band recording/composition, it's very fast & easy to use in that regard. But for scoring or any kind of music that requires delving a bit more into sound design territory, it's definitely lacking.
> 
> I've had it for a while & really wanted to like it, it was great for what we were using it for at the time (a band writing/playing/recording) but when you want to do anything more advanced, especially when it comes to midi there's a definite deficiency. I also found automation a bit fiddlie to work with, plus using instrument tracks compared to other DAW's I used previously (Reaper & Ableton Live) can be a bit awkward too.
> 
> ...



Just curious,what kind of things do you do with midi that can't be done in S1 ?
It's funny that you mention Reaper and Ableton because I actually found those to be awkward,especially when it comes to instrument tracks.I never used Logic but from what I've seen in videos of others using it,I really like it.

I do agree that working with video in Studio One could definitely be better.I'm not very happy with that either.Hopefully we'll get better video features in v3.


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## maestro2be (Mar 15, 2014)

woodsdenis @ Sat Mar 15 said:


> maestro2be @ Wed Mar 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the video to show some of my issues. I had forgotten about the tempo track issues as well. That really needs an update as well.
> ...



There is no fix that LMike or anyone could provide. It's exactly the intended behavior and is the limitation of the implemenation at this point. I know because I have been using S1 since the day of release and I have been in touch with them since those days working out issues over the years. They have implemented many things over the years from my requests using VE Pro, especially when finally one of their very own tech support midi guys started using VE Pro and he and I would direclty discuss improvements.

Presonus has a tendancy of implementing fixes without even including it in their bug fixes/features list as well. I know they will get to most/all of these issues in their own time but they are very intent on coming up with new and unique ways of doing things (and I am ok with that).

I am not going to use 50 instance of VE Pro in each project because each one uses almost 1% cpu just to connect and engage. The other reason is becuase I use MIR PRO integration with VE PRO to put all my instruments into one room. I have considered it, and actually tried it before and like everything else, it has its benefits but it also comes with its downfalls (with Studio One allowing you to power off the VE PRO instance, it will free up all the CPU but none of the memory usage). However, this workaround could easily be supported with a SLAVE computer as a perfect workaround/solution but I do try to work "in the box" of one machine (that seems to get harder each year).

If they don't fix it in V3, one day I will have a computer strong enough to run those seperate 50 instances and it will be a somewhat workaround to the current issue. But I can assure you, that whether you have used VE PRO or not, this issue has always existed (I have owned VE PRO since it was released day one). There is absolutely no way to have one VE PRO section running and have your mixer behave accordingly to how you would "want" it to behave. In fact, there is no way to have ANY VE PRO instance behave in any way that treats any portion of that instance as a separate section/instance. Don't bother asking LMike or anyone else, it can't happen. In fact prior to the days that I submitted videos and projects to Studio One, you couldn't even automate seperate midi channels. You made CC11 changes to midi channel 1 and ALL channels would get wiped out and overwritten. So they have come a long ways even today.

Even if you have Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion VE PRO Instances/section (plus ones for FX, Multis from Symphobia etc.) you still get stuck with the same color for the entire instance, not per section. I have never really complained enormously about it because the software is a work in progress and it simply leaves all the others in the stone ages in many areas. But after being a faithful customer for so long, you can only wish for more results that directly affect many of us, not just myself.

Let's face it, the things they have implemented are top notch and very simple and intuitive to use. All we can wish for now is that they power up the weak areas they have, reassess after releasing their new innovations and then continue to close the gaps. Seems like a few areas they need strength is:

1. Midi overall - workflows and support
2. Notation - assuming they are interested (and I am sure they are)
3. Video/film scoring - they have much to improve here also
4. Global support such as track archives etc. (things that increase workflows for all of us).

Maestro2be


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## emid (Mar 15, 2014)

Maestro2be! I just wanted to say thank you for making and uploading the video. It did gave me a direction, however, I am now convinced that I need a controller that should either have an easy-to-use manual, or with some easy-to-understand software. I have been tweaking my controller since I bought it but of no avail. Alesis guide assumes that you know everything and does not explain which function is for what. Controller certainly does things that you have explained in the video but how? I asked this question before and many other on support forum but the guy answering there just copy/paste from the manual. I downloaded Axiom's guide and it is much better in that sense. Anyways, many thanks again for you effort. Really appreciate.


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## woodsdenis (Mar 16, 2014)

Hi I did actually edit my post before you replied.To reiterate I didn't realise you were using just one instance of VE pro. You are of course correct the same thing happens on my system. What I am suggesting is using one instance of per section, one for violins cellos etc. you then would be only using five instances and solve your busses problem immediately, as I said in my edit the colour problem remains the same per instance. Your walk around using Fx returns means it doesn't automatically appear on the arrange as folder busses do , much handier IMO.


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## PJMorgan (Mar 16, 2014)

G.E. @ 16th March 2014 said:


> Just curious,what kind of things do you do with midi that can't be done in S1 ?
> It's funny that you mention Reaper and Ableton because I actually found those to be awkward,especially when it comes to instrument tracks.I never used Logic but from what I've seen in videos of others using it,I really like it.
> 
> I do agree that working with video in Studio One could definitely be better.I'm not very happy with that either.Hopefully we'll get better video features in v3.



I haven't used it in a while but some of the midi editing options like humanise are very basic. There aren't any midi FX insert options & you can't have template tracks (Reaper, Live & Logic all have some way of providing template tracks) I'm sure there's more to add but it's that long from I've used S1 I can't remember all of what I don't like about it :oops: I must fire it up later to reacquaint myself with it. I also find the GUI a bit drab & uninspiring to work in. 

Reaper has actually come a long way were midi's concerned, but the devs really do have to do something to streamline the features & UI. Live is pretty lacking in the midi department but it does have midi fx & IMO offers a (still) very refreshing approach to making music compared to most other DAW's.

Before I sound like I'm totally bashing S1, I'm really not. It is for the most part a great DAW & offers a lot for a 2.6 version app. I'm afraid to sell it in case v3 has all the features I'd like & more.


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## maestro2be (Mar 16, 2014)

woodsdenis @ Sun Mar 16 said:


> Hi I did actually edit my post before you replied.To reiterate I didn't realise you were using just one instance of VE pro. You are of course correct the same thing happens on my system. What I am suggesting is using one instance of per section, one for violins cellos etc. you then would be only using five instances and solve your busses problem immediately, as I said in my edit the colour problem remains the same per instance. Your walk around using Fx returns means it doesn't automatically appear on the arrange as folder busses do , much handier IMO.



Thanks Woodsdenis, I absolutely understood what you were recommending but I think you weren't understanding how many instances I would need because you based your suggestion (which was a good one) on the little tiny "demo" project I setup only for the purpose of making videos to show people here some issues with S1 limitations.

My real template has 1200 tracks and would need actually more in the 100+ instances to let me have full control of "color" options for all my sections. For instance you only see 5 in my demo video, but in real terms of how I work visually I would have as an example:

1 - Violins 1
2 - Violins 1 (muted Strings). I use a different color to let me know it's my muted strings.
3 - Violins 2
4 - Violins 2 (muted Strings).

etc. etc.

Then I haven't even begun to break down woodwinds into seperate sections. Then Brass. Then Percussion. Then Keybaords. Then FX, Choirs, Multi's, Guitars, etc. etc. etc.

When each instance uses around 1% CPU, that isn't going to go far. I will be out of computer power before I even finish opening my template. In Cubase, I can open the entire thing and stay at 3% CPU. And I have complete control of all my colors and sections.

Hopefully that clears up why I have so many/need so many instances if I go the individual route. Plus again, it makes moving instruments on the MIR PRO sound stage a little clumsy when trying to give them each their own placement between sections.

The way I prefered to work was with one instance per orchestral family (Strings, Woods, Brass, Percussion) but the color limitation killed that immediately.

There simply is no easy way around this right now until they create a process that we can use. So for now, I will use Cubase for orchestral big projects and S1 for mastering and small, couple instrument projects for its speed.

Maestro2be


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## maestro2be (Mar 16, 2014)

Ron Snijders @ Fri Mar 14 said:


> Yes, that's exactly what I meant! Glad that works out for you
> I guess the reason that we weren't on the same page is that I never considered that there was any other way to create busses than the one you're showing in the latest video, so I couldn't get my head around why it wasn't working for you. I usually just select the output track and use 'Add buss for selected tracks', rather than create the buss and route manually. Saves a few clicks and still creates busses that are not associated with the instrument tracks
> 
> You went over it pretty quickly in the vid, but I do think you'd need to record your FX return for the Bricasti separately while doing the single recording run of each section. The way you're recording right now just gets you dry audio, and adding the Bricasti to the section mixdowns would obviously deny you control of the reverb amount for each individual library.



Hi Ron,

I forgot to reply to this one but definitely wanted to go back to it because I didn't want people to think that's what is actually happening. I don't get dry audio at all. I am actually recording exactly the sound I hear which has all the FX and Bricasti burned right into the audio file.

Every single output channel in my mixer has a bricasti send in it. In the video I only added one instance of bricasti to one single output mixer channel because my videos already take to long to make. I can't imagine the boredum of someone watching me put a Bricasti Send on every single channel in my enormous mixer (with my true templates) just to prove a point. So in reality, LASS has it's own out from VE PRO and it's own Bricasti Send. Then so does Dimension Strings, Appassionata Strings, Violas etc. etc. etc. Each one then is dialed in with a difference value, per section, per vendor.

So when I record my pass for say Violins 1, each vendor sings their own amount of bricasti into my recording making it sound like one perfect string family. When it's done, I can absolutely hear exactly the same sound I hear when my midi performance plays through my bricasti, by playing just the single audio file (which has no sends to any FX. It only goes to the main output).

Maestro2be


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## Ron Snijders (Mar 16, 2014)

maestro2be @ Sun 16 Mar said:


> Ron Snijders @ Fri Mar 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, that's exactly what I meant! Glad that works out for you
> ...


Then do you route the output of your FX return into the buss with your sections while recording? Else I don't see how the audio from the return would get printed when recording your section mixdown busses.
In the video, while recording, your FX return outputs to Main. In that situation I would not expect it to get recorded when recording from a section buss. And when I try that out in my own setup, it doesn't.


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