# Please, working composers, try to chime in.



## Studio E (Nov 9, 2013)

Hi forum folks. I am nearing a crossroad in my life and I would appreciate any input I could get from people making a go of it in the industry. By "in the industry" I mostly mean people composing for film, television, or other visual media for the most part.

Here I am, about to turn 45, and by many measures, I have just gotten my life completely on track, at least as my parents would want and as I think many people gauge success.

I live in Central Illinois in the middle of the USA. I did really bad in my early education, dropping out of high school and then entering the military. At the end of 4 years in the Navy, I was married with a small child, my son. I picked up work as a heating and air-conditioning tech because my step-dad owned a small business in that field. I worked in that field, for 17 years, eventually branching out and owning my own very small business. Then about three years ago, I applied for a job as the local heating and air-conditioning inspector for the City of Decatur where I live. Out of 51 applicants, I got the job. It was a lot of work and preparation but I was the one to get it. It is a great job with very solid middle-income wages, medical, retirement, the full package. 

In that time I went through a divorce and remarried. Along with my new bride, I became a step-dad myself to three wonderful children. I've currently been married for 6 years. Fast forward to now, all the kids are grown up with just one left in the house. Next year we are set to have an empty nest potentially.

I've been a musician since I was about 14. I was basically self teaching myself piano because there was one in the house when my mom remarried. I eventually got into cover bands in my 20s and was in one group or another until just 2 months ago when I had had enough of the lifestyle. Somewhere along the way, I started really falling in love with film music. About 12 years ago I bought a computer, Cubase SX, an 8 channel midi interface, and I already had a bunch of synths. So not at all really knowing how to write for film, I just started writing things that were film-ish. Then I figured out how to drop video into Cubase and started making my own projects. About 8 years ago, I got hired for the first time to do a bicycle safety film and I've been hooked ever since. Since then, and I know this isn't much compared to many of you, but I've been paid for something like 60 different project including tv commercials, corporate films, educational films, some short films, radio spots, and various other production work from my VERY humble home studio.

I still get work a few times a year from the same clients and I have about as many free short film projects as I could ever want. I'm talking free-for-everyone-involved projects. I feel like I have gotten pretty darn good and yet I know I have huge mountains to climb to be anywhere near my heroes of the trade.

So here's the biggie. With a great job and my life completely in order, I have an overwhelming desire, not a whim, to move to the LA area and try to make a go of it in the music field. I have felt this forever but the confidence to do so has just sort of worked it's way into my life in recent years. I know it wouldn't be easy and I have no lofty thoughts of landing there and getting work immediately in the field. What I do think, is that I could land there, get a job in the field I have been in forever, heating and air, and continue to pursue bigger work there in the music field.

I know that I can do that much but, there is no reason to go just to do that. I have that here. What I don't have is the large spectrum of opportunity that is there. 

What I'd really like to know from those that have been there a while, or anywhere I guess if you are a working media composer is; Without needing to make what Hans or Danny Elfman makes, but needing to eventually make say, $100,000+ gross as a self-employed composer, is that realistic for anyone with a great work ethic and reasonable music and people skills? That's what I have to offer at this point. THat, and a lot of potential for getting better and better because that is the guy I am. One that is never going to be happy knowing what I know now. I need to be in this game for life. I don't want to retire. I want to work doing what it is I love.

I'm not one to be all freaked out about people knowing what I make (I think it's even public record). I make about $60,000 here and get all the benefits mentioned in addition, although I do pay a small amount for them from that. I don't think that it's incredibly impressive, but I'm a simple guy and other than needing a truck-load of fun musical toys/libraries, I could be happy with this for the rest of my life. I figure that the $100,000 living in LA is pretty comparable other than living in a small shoebox of an apartment. The other $40,000 is income tax and health insurance.

What say you mighty professional composers? I eagerly just want to do what I have an EXTREME passion for and I'm, of course, willing to start on the bottom at this age and work my way up. I'd love your thoughts. By the way, I do indeed have a friend already there to show me around and I also have some distant family there, all in the city.

I really appreciate any thoughts you might have.


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## RiffWraith (Nov 9, 2013)

Kudos to you for even considering this. Many do not have the balls to even allow this to cross their mind. 

Some people are going to say (well, maybe not after I type this :lol: "dude - go for it! You only live once and you have to follow your dreams!!!" Yeah, well, easy for someone else to say. It very rarely is as easy as "follow your dreams"... nothing wrong with trying, but you have to be realistic at the same time. 

A few quick thoughts.

Ask yourself a) how much are you making now from music alone now (you needn't make that public) and b) will you keep making that money when you move to LA

Are you taking your wife with you, or leaving her? That's a biggie. If the former, you can have her salary to depend on for a while, assuming she gets a job out there. If the latter, how much money do you have in the bank (that is 100% yours to take with you)? Of course you needn't make that public either, but the point is, you need to have some sort of a "nest egg". Because if you think that you are going to be making 6 figs as soon as you step of the plane, think again. Unless of course you have a good income from current musical projects that you will take with you.

Would you be able to get an HVAC job in LA if need be? And do music part time for the first year or so? Maybe two, three or more?

How many contacts do you have in LA? ie - once you arrive, how many people can you call, and say "hey - just moved out here... why don't we have dinner during the week? I would love to see you, and I am buying!"? By people, I mean either a) potential clients, or b) people who can get you to potential clients.

And finally, the BIG ONE. What is your ultimate goal? Do you have one? "Compose music for a living" isn't gonna cut it. It's a good start - yeah, but if you are going to make a move like this, you'd better have a more specific, narrower goal. Without knowing what that goal is, I have to ask - are you 100% certain you need to be in LA to get to where you want to be? You should figure that out first. Because in the days of HS internet, wetransfer, dropbox, ftp, Skype, Source Live, etc., you don't need to be in LA for everything.

That said, if your goal is to score feature films, then LA is your best bet. Not a requirement, but to a degree, a necessity. If this is the case, you may want to give much thought to: a) is my IMDB page cluttered with films? b) do I have enough contacts to get me in the door to at least have a chance at getting some small films to start with? If no to both, things are going to be extremely difficult - to put it lightly.

Again, I commend you for giving this thought, and hope all the best for you. 

Cheers.


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## rgames (Nov 9, 2013)

I still make most of my living outside the music world, so I'm not really the guy to give sage advice on how to make it, but I have been through the same thought process you're going through and might have a couple other ideas for you to consider.

First, starting over is tough at any age outside your thirties. Not just for you but for people who would hire you. The truth is there are going to be a ton of twenty-somethings trying to snag the same gigs you're going after. And those twenty-somethings don't have wives and kids who will distract them, so they're more committed. Plus they've never really had any money, so they don't expect much. When you consider those facts, it becomes apparent that you need to be *really* special in order to win the gig over the twenty-somethings. If you have a pretty substantial credit list then maybe it's is not a problem. But if you're competing with twenty-somethings with equivalent credits then it'll be tough.

Second, since you've already achieved some success, are you willing to start over? This is my number one concern - I'm not willing to put up with crap like I did when I was just starting out my career (outside the music world). I'm a professional, musically or otherwise, and I expect to be treated as such. "No, I'm not going to get you a cup of coffee or print your stems - do it yourself." If you're the guy calling the shots then it's hard to go back to being low man on the totem pole.

Third, related to the previous point, you're probably going to have to put up with crappy productions as you start out, maybe for many years as you build a network and build your name. Is the loss of your current lot in life worth being associated with crap? Maybe it won't happen that way, but as I tried to get involved in the film world, that's what I experienced. I got paid (not much) but, in the end, the only reason I was doing it was to pass the time until I was able to join a production I actually liked.

Fourth, do your chops match your aspirations? I just don't have the chops to work at the level I want to. I could probably squeak out a living writing for mediocre films, TV shows and libraries, but there are too many other folks out there with *way* more talent than I have, so I'd never be able to get on the types of productions I want to do. That was a major factor for me - I saw myself eternally working for mediocre (at best) productions and it just wasn't appealing.

Finally - this is the kicker that sealed the deal for me once I figured it out - the fact that you're approaching it in a rational fashion shows that you shouldn't make the change. It needs to be an irrational decision - like the decision to abuse drugs or alcohol: it makes no sense but you do it anyway. There's no rational way to justify giving up a decent living to go to LA in the hopes of making a living as a composer.

If you have to think about it then you shouldn't do it. That's the conclusion I came to.

rgames


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## dannthr (Nov 9, 2013)

First, you have to be absolutely insane. There is nothing stable about this endeavor and there are no guarantees attached, whatsoever.

As some cats from Berklee once remarked 'better to be a big fish in a little pond than a minnow in the ocean,' and that's what LA is--the Ocean. It is so much bigger than you imagined and everyone who can do is out here--ten times over. I think the line from Barton Fink comes to mind "Jesus, throw a rock in [LA], you'll hit [a writer]. And do me a favor, Fink: throw it hard."

Because that's what it's like out here, talent saturation. Think you can do something? There are probably at least 1000 people out here that can do that too (maybe even better).

Moving to LA did nothing yet observable for my career. I did remote work before I moved here, I still do remote work. My clients are from all over the world. The only thing is that I _was _able to find a job teaching a very obscure entertainment subject for my day work.

Beats more mundane day work.

So yeah, you have to be insane--are you insane? Yes? Good! Join the insanity! Come on down!

Just don't expect to win the lottery when you get here, man, play the game, play it well, but that has to be enough! You have to be able to live your life writing music all the time, crunching on gigs, delivering scores, spending more money than you should on live players, and be able to do all of that without the satisfaction of taking home a big fat check.

There is only so much you can control because there is no formula for success:

You can control how hard you work on every gig, you can put yourself in positions where you are optimizing your opportunity potential (network, public presentations, etc), but the rest is luck.

Anyone who tells you that their success had no luck involved is lying to you. All you can control is how ready you are to engage opportunities when you become aware of them and maximize your likelihood of encountering an opportunity.

So the real question you should ask yourself is are you insane enough? And if you have calculated some practical threshold of income that is required for you to live out here, you may not be insane enough.


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## Studio E (Nov 9, 2013)

Hi guys. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. JohnG was nice enough to speak with me about his thoughts on the LA scene and much of what you are telling me matches his thoughts as well. It does sound very scary and I am not feeling super confident hearing this same story over and over. 

The only really good thing I have going for me on this situation, is that I don't have to make any decisions right now because I can't afford to make the move regardless. It will take me a year and a half to two years before I could prepare financially for the move. In the meantime, it doesn't change the steps of my path at all which are to pay-off debt, save money, and continue composing and learning new chops.

John did mention some alternative paths that I should look into as well. 

At some point, I will have to make the decision to either go all-in or to just stay where I am and make the best of a second career from here. I do have a nice little studio here that I can build into something really nice in the coming years if I decide to stay and I do have some local film makers I regularly work with who may someday make some really rewarding feature films for me to work on. 

It's all food for thought and I really really appreciate all of your thoughts on the matter. I will try to make it to LA in the next year just for a visit. Maybe a 10 day or something. If at all possible, I'd sure like to buy a few people lunch or dinner and just meet some of you face to face and get a feel for the landscape. I just want to experience some of the culture surrounding what I dream of you know? What I wouldn't give to just attend a real orchestral recording for a film or see Hans' place or something like that.


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## Peter Alexander (Nov 9, 2013)

I think you should invest a few dollars and read a new book called _David and Goliath_ by Malcolm Gladwell. 

For today, I think you're better off being a big fish in a small pond where you have time to get your skills down, cold, build a client list, a track record, and a strong list of musical demos.

Having an ongoing client list will help your cash flow when you make the move.

Career advancement is easier in the Marine Corps then in Los Angeles. You must allow yourself a decade to break through. Your skill set just needs to be down. And you need to put time into understanding royalties, music licensing and contracts as that's also part of the gig. 

The same success skills are needed where you live as they are in L.A. 

I also think it's important for you to keep in mind what the real issue is: making your living doing music full time. 

Just keep in mind that business is leaving L.A. for cheaper solutions. I strongly encourage you to subscribe to the online version of the Hollywood Reporter and the L.A. Times and do some recon before you make a move.


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## Greg (Nov 9, 2013)

Follow your passion, life isn't worth living any other way


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## José Herring (Nov 9, 2013)

Just do it. Buy all your gear while you still have money. And don't borrow money to buy gear. 

But, in all honesty. You're living in the past. You don't really have to be in LA to make a living doing music these days. 

Via the internet I'm starting to do work all around the world.

I'm actually considering moving out of LA.


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 10, 2013)

dannthr @ Sun Nov 10 said:


> As some cats from Berklee once remarked 'better to be a big fish in a little pond than a minnow in the ocean,' and that's what LA is--the Ocean. It is so much bigger than you imagined and everyone who can do is out here--ten times over. I think the line from Barton Fink comes to mind "Jesus, throw a rock in [LA], you'll hit [a writer]. And do me a favor, Fink: throw it hard."



I have absolutely no first hand knowledge of working in LA or in fact the USA, but these comments rung true (especially as a Barton Fink fan). I like to reflect that there are many tens of thousands of professional composers earning a quiet living around the world, and only a tiny, tiny fraction are in LA in the top set.

I've learned to be content with being a medium sized fish in a tiny pond. I love the working relationships I have, which have already led to things I never could have forseen. I am generally hopeless at selling myself, so I admit this is the path of least resistance, but doing good work for people you know is very much swimming with the tide rather than cold calling which is against a frickin' tidal wave. There's a fabulously talented and super-nice graphics artist I've worked with who likes my stuff, who has put my name forward for three separate good gigs in the past few months alone, 2 of which led to the final gig. That's what I mean about swimming with the tide I guess. I like your instinct that the small filmmakers you are working with now might go on to bigger and better things - while some doubtless won't, I'm sure others will.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## TheUnfinished (Nov 10, 2013)

Are you happy where you are now? You seem happy. Never underestimate that.


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## doctornine (Nov 10, 2013)

I think the important question you have to ask yourself is this :

1) Do I want to write music for a living, 
or 
2) Do I want to score movies for a living ?
Seems to me those are two different disciplines.

I can only tell you that I decided. I don't have the chops, or the desire for 2. But 6 to 7 years ago I decided it was time to really give 1. a go. I only took that step when I knew that I could replicate the income from my then "real" job from writing music, because I already was from doing music part -time.
It wasn't an easy decision to take and it was only done with the support and understanding of my wife.

I'm lucky, in that so far it's worked out. But then thats because I'm putting an insane amount of time and effort into making it work. And thankfully, with the internet, the fact I'm based in the middle of nowhere, isn't an issue.

But I think Matt's comment is spot on. You need to be happy. 

I hated my real job, and all I wanted to do was write music and make money from it. And being able to do that does indeed make me happy. 

~o)


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## reddognoyz (Nov 10, 2013)

josejherring @ Sat Nov 09 said:


> But, in all honesty. You're living in the past. You don't really have to be in LA to make a living doing music these days.
> 
> Via the internet I'm starting to do work all around the world



True that. Same here. It sounds like you've got a good thing going. I wouldn't risk it all, nor do I think you have to. If I were you I'd stay put and follow your dreams. Geographical proximity is overrated.


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## Stephen Rees (Nov 10, 2013)

dannthr @ Sun Nov 10 said:


> First, you have to be absolutely insane. There is nothing stable about this endeavor and there are no guarantees attached, whatsoever......
> 
> Rest of post edited to save space



I don't have anything to contribute, being a tiny stickleback in a puddle, but I would just like to say thanks for your eloquent and entertaining post Dan. Both this one and your many others. They are always appreciated.

I would also add to Jonathan's post above that I too have gravitated towards library music. The financial rewards are enough to make a living, the briefs are broad and interesting, and the deadlines quite relaxed.

Also, the more albums I have out there, the more briefs tend to just involve asking me to write in a particular genre - in my own style. Creatively, that is tremendously rewarding.


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## Studio E (Nov 10, 2013)

Again, thanks for the all the information and opinions. I an truly taking them to heart. So much so that I feel mildly punched in the gut, lol. That said, it may be a wake up call, to look way more seriously into what I can continue to do here and what new opportunities I can create for myself from this geography. 

One of the best things about being here is the cost of living. It is VERY reasonable here. Enough so that my gear list can grow exponentially over the years from here but would be put on indefinite hold out there for sure.

I think I really owe it to myself to see what else I can make happen from here while I wait for my finances to catch up to the possibility.

To answer one question; Yes, I'd LOVE to score movies for a living, but that doesn't have to be my only musical outlet. I could be quite happy just being constantly involved in music whether it be writing, production, mixing, engineering, I love it all and am fascinated by it all. I could (and have) indeed create a lot of that here, no doubt.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 10, 2013)

Years ago, I decided that I would not even try to make it in LA, and that instead, I would try to be a big fish in a small pond. I think it would be rude for me to say that it worked, but honestly, I do just fine, better than most in fact. And I never regretted my choice, as, in the end, it's always been about finding a way to make a living doing what I love, music-making. It's never been about working with A-List directors on blockbusters.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 10, 2013)

PS: Slowly getting freaked out about music libraries. I just pitched for something (didn't get it, I think) where I was just asked to do the themes (opening, closing) and bumpers for a doc. In the past, I would have pitched for the whole thing but, surprise, surprise, they're going with library music. And so we will slowly eat each other, and bring the value of an hour of our work to minimum wage or less. But that's another topic, right?


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 10, 2013)

It's very simple. You only do this if you feel, "if I do not do this I will die". Because you are up against guys like me who DO feel that.


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## dinerdog (Nov 10, 2013)

When I went to The Musicians Institute of Technology in 1980, I remember Jay Graydon telling us that if your moving here work you better have enough money to live on for at least a year with little or no work. I would imagine that almost 25 years later that might translate into several years worth of savings to live on while you try and get a foothold. Plus all the other unforeseen things that have happened to the industry (there was no internet then). Oingo Boingo was without a doubt THE most popular band playing the clubs then. Only A Lad. : >


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## Creston (Nov 10, 2013)

I found going to LA made me want to move there even more. 

What's that saying? You see the view from the top of the mountain and you spend the rest of your life trying to climb back up there.

I'm 30 and went when I was 21 and naive. I see the points where I was naive now, but after all that I can still see why it's a great place to live and have a certain quality of life. 

For me, I had money at the age of 21, lots of disposable income, spending it on stuff I didn't need, clothes, food, car, bored all the time in a town that most people never seem to leave. For me the stability became boring. I'm set for the rest of my life if I keep doing this boring office job? Great but, that's it? 

For me being in a creative environment drove me to want to be so much better than I think I could have got in my town. 

I really depends what quality of life you expect in LA. 

You're lucky you are in the US and can travel and check these places out for a year at a time and move on.


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## Creston (Nov 10, 2013)

As for luck. You do need luck but luck often comes from making yourself be in the right place at the right time and there are ways to be in many places.

Years ago I sent out a CD of my ambient music (I wanted to be an electronic/ambient artist back then and was just trying to get some money from my music being in TV shows) to about 200 people. I signed up for IMDB Pro trial and spent 3 days copying and pasting addresses into a Word document. Every agent I could find at CAA, every music supervisor, every director I could find on IMDB, their agents, music editors etc etc. CAA were even nice enough to send me my CD back with a letter saying they don't take unsolicited material. 

One person replied and hadn't even listened to the CD but at the same time they had an email asking if they knew a composer. They suggested I email them, got my first gig which was also paid. I'm a complete nobody but I got this gig over a now academy award winning composer. Maybe he was lucky that he didn't get this gig? Maybe they picked me because I was cheaper? Who knows. But if I hadn't sent out all those CDs I wouldn't have got my first gig. So a 1 in 200 chance led to an email that led to more odds of getting a gig.


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 10, 2013)

Creston @ Sun Nov 10 said:


> I found going to LA made me want to move there even more.
> 
> What's that saying? You see the view from the top of the mountain and you spend the rest of your life trying to climb back up there.
> 
> ...



We are going to have to disagree about the quality of life. Unless the thing you value most is sunny days, in terms of bank for buck, there a a ton of better places to live than L.A. I have lived here since '72 and it gets worse every year.


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## Creston (Nov 10, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Nov 10 said:


> We are going to have to disagree about the quality of life. Unless the thing you value most is sunny days, in terms of bank for buck, there a a ton of better places to live than L.A. I have lived here since '72 and it gets worse every year.



I imagine it can be something you get used to being there so long. I actually do love sunny days and hobbies that go along with it. Hiking, surfing, mountain biking etc. I suffer from S.A.D and the long grey months in the UK are terrible for me. A lot of British people's life revolve around getting drunk every weekend to forgot about the job they hate, and saving up all year leave the UK to spend some time in the sun. Try spending three decades of your life in a country that sometimes has 60 days of nice weather a year. That's if you're not stuck in a office whilst it's happening. 

I've got a few friends who have made the move from the UK to LA and say they'd never come back home. Something simple as the idea of wearing shorts in November hasn't got old to one friend who's been there 14 years. 

I think the appeal of LA for me is all the different areas you can live to fit with your lifestyle. Topanga Canyon seems like a great base for me to have. Cheaper living, quieter, easy drive down to Santa Monica, Malibu, away from Hollywood.

I should probably also mention I live in London where it's not uncommon for a professional in their mid 30s to live in studio apartment that costs the same as a 1 bed apartment in Beachwood Canyon. The move for me would see me getting more property for my money.


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## AC986 (Nov 10, 2013)

Yes it's a dry heat over there isn't it.


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## Greg (Nov 10, 2013)

I recently moved here from the midwest, (wisconsin.) I could NEVER live in "fly over country" again. It just doesn't hold a candle to LA. Even the heat here feels better because its very dry unlike the midwest's terrible humidity.

There is so much to do, incredible venues and shows, great art galleries and museums, amazing scenery and trails all over the outskirts, and jaw dropping places like Big Sur, Yosemite, Mammoth mtn, are just a day trip away. Aside from traffic and cost of living, LA is amazing.


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## Creston (Nov 10, 2013)

Again the traffic is something else I found fine in LA. Then again I'm used to clogged up motorways that have constant construction work and London traffic.


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## j_kranz (Nov 10, 2013)

Some great posts here and great advice. One little thing I feel like I can add is make sure to take 'time' into the equation. I'm now making most of my living from writing music, and it took a good 6-7 years to get there _after_ moving to LA. I made the annual migration after college (Berklee) with many of my peers, and for the most part the ones that stuck it out are also coming into their own. So... realize it's going to take some time once you get here to get to a point where you are supporting yourself through music if you are a go-getter, and probably at least three or four years realistically.

Also, connections are very important, I've gotten some great work through other composers... so be friendly, professional and open to making connections with everyone that you meet, even the 'competition' :wink: .


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## germancomponist (Nov 10, 2013)

j_kranz @ Sun Nov 10 said:


> Also, connections are very important, I've gotten some great work through other composers... so be friendly, professional and open to making connections with everyone that you meet, even the 'competition' :wink: .



+1

Very important all over the world.


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## KMuzzey (Nov 10, 2013)

I love this thread. So many great practical tips and very real-world pieces of advice.

I'm a big fan of approaching things the Suze Orman way: big risks can be OK to take if you're financially prepared for them. So if you're going to leave your comfy life behind and make the leap, make sure you have at least 1-2 years of living expenses (and living expenses in LA dollars, not Illinois dollars!) in the bank; no credit card debt; a spouse that can work to help support you while things get going (which can take a looooong time). Plan for the time investment involved in building a career. Save tons of money: you'll need the buffer. Look at craigslist to see what rentals are going for in neighborhoods you like. And take a vacay to L.A. to poke around to see if it's a fit for you and your family. But realize that a quick trip to LA is going to paint a much rosier picture than actually moving in and living here and trying to find work here. I think people who live elsewhere imagine that we all sit around and drink coffee and hang out and talk about movie music under palm trees or drink wine on the beach. The reality is a little closer to "we spend 12 hours a day in a dark little room by ourselves and have vitamin D deficiencies from lack of sun." Re: the music you write, it should sound as good as everything else out there in that same genre before you jump into the pool, just cuz that's how good your competition's music already sounds.

I'm a big fan of "follow your dreams" but the asterisk on that is "but know what you're getting yourself into." There's a ton of competition out here, and you're competing against people who have been here a long time or who have been doing this gig full-time for 10, 20, even 30 years now. And Peter made a great point in an earlier post: know the business part of all this stuff. Understand licensing and royalties and know every single possible source of income for a piece of music. If you decide to make the leap you need to have a business plan in place, an accounts receivable calendar showing exactly what money is coming in when, a very healthy bank account, and an action plan for how you're going to make money once you get here. 

I think that reading practical advice like this, or "warning" posts, can feel like negativity but it's not: it's healthy skepticism based on real-life experiences. Start from a budget perspective and work your way from there.

Kerry

(p.s. I went to Millikin... tell Decatur hi for me!)


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## Studio E (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks KMuzzey. Millikin, that's pretty cool. I am currently helping one of the professors there with a film project of his own.

Yes, I am indeed approaching this from a budgetary perspective first. I don't take the responses as negative is a bad sense but just as dire realism unfortunately. I'm not ruling anything out but I have to say, I'm really glad that I am getting this much response, even though it is quickly letting all the air out of my balloon :( . 

Like I said previously, I have quite a bit of time to think this over. A LOT of time as I do indeed need to pay off debt and save money to get started. In the meantime, I am working on projects here. THis may just be the shot in the arm I needed to get more serious about making things work HERE. At least I have a strong foothold in this area with local film makers and ad agencies. Maybe I will just try to really expand upon that in the coming year or two while I build my war chest. By the time I am ready to go, maybe I will have changed my reality enough here to not feel the need to move anymore.

There were some points brought up by a few people that did give me a serious reality check. One of which was the type of work that I am likely to get for possibly years on end. I have worked on crappy projects before and it is really hard to bring your "A" game to something that totally sucks. At least here, I can pick and choose what I want to work on. 

The other thing is that I know that I have some holes in my game. I think I can at least patch them up in a year or so and then keep reenforcing the patches until they become part of the "I can do it all" armor.

Thanks again guys for all the info and advice!


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## P-9 (Nov 11, 2013)

Here's my story
In 2001 I moved to the San Fernando valley (which I believed was the TV production capital of the world) with my wife and 1 yr old in tow. I had 3 months worth of rent/food money in the bank (15k), so my motivation was strong to build something. I had been a composer for 1 season of 1 awful Reality show (promised 45k which became 30k then 25k then when I finally got the check 15k) and had been signed to several small record deals as an artist. So I knew a few people in LA as a head start.

I remember my father saying something about my ass hanging out and that he could never do what I was doing. Thanks a lot, Dad

I made calls and beat down doors 7 days a week. I did free composing for student films and TV production companies. I ghost wrote and let more established writers and producers screw me. I tried the ad agency $300 per tune Mcdonalds/Chevy gimmie 73 re-writes and like it thing. I did sessions as a player or an engineer for free or for lunch just to network. I didn't take any days off. I cold called and beat down every door I could even if it was at a place I knew wouldn't need or want my services at that time.

In every free moment I was building my catalog. When I got to the valley I had around 300 tunes recorded, when I left 2 1/2 years later I had 3500. What I realized by being there was a niche I never would have known if I had stayed home. To me, this is why you go to where there is opportunity. I didn't know it when I got to LA but there was a need to be filled that didn't exist in my home town. I began making friends with editors and music supes by putting out the musical fires that popped up. Things like "we used the Jaws theme but cant afford to pay for it and the episode airs tonight" or "we need 40 country stings, 20 heavy metal cues and 25 cymbal swells". So I would run home to the studio and score for free and hand deliver within a few hours. I realize this is a specific skill set but, I believe anyone can build it if, it is part of your daily life/gig. 

By doing this type of stuff I started getting hired (paid) to do the work I loved doing. I was able to build a success story by working my ass off. 

Just for the record, if I worked at Burger King for every hour I worked at music I would be a millionaire....no joke

I have a good friend who followed the same route...except...

He didn't do the same cold call breaking down door work for anyone anytime for free or less thing. Partly, I think, because he didn't have the same people skills. Partly because he liked to play videos games and just didn't have the same crazy work ethic.

Hope this helps somehow


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 11, 2013)

TheUnfinished @ Sun Nov 10 said:


> Are you happy where you are now? You seem happy. Never underestimate that.



Great response. And cool responses all. You do seem happy now actually. But I think there is a way to test the waters by making it gradual before diving in completely. One case study is doing more weekend warrior stuff and building up your clientele list that way until the numbers are so compelling that it no longer makes sense to continue doing what you're currently doing for your main day job. Because aside from music being art or something we love, its also a business and industry - meaning that hard and fast realities of finding and getting work also need to be considered. 

Wishing you the best here and thanks for such a great topic.


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## gamalataki (Nov 11, 2013)

Wait until you're called.

Keep doing as many projects as you can, from where you are, always keeping an eye towards making connections with people who are in the position to make the call to request your presence in LA.

Among the many things you have going for you, your passion is the most important.

LA has many, many fine qualities and opportunites for success are everywhere, but it also can suck the passion right out of your heart. In fact, you'll run into certain practitioners of Schadenfreude who have perfected the art of passion sucking. You can survive music without money, but not without passion.

You should feel a stronger urge to find better projects, not change your zip code.

Another two cents.


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## Jimbo 88 (Nov 11, 2013)

Here is my little side story to add...I have scored hundreds of hours of TV Docs and have made a ton of $ in Chicago, close to the OP. I have made a couple of trips to LA looking for work. I walked into one LA agency that represents composers and they said "we only represent people who are somebody". 

So now I introduce myself as "world famous"...and that joke goes over well here in Chi-town, but not so well in LA. Goes over like a lead balloon.

In LA people recognize my Chicago accent and mannerisms right away. They sense I'm going back home in a couple of days.

My point is there is a different culture out in LA. Be ready for it.


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## wst3 (Nov 11, 2013)

Three things stand out, at least for me...

1) you do have to be a little bit crazy, maybe a lot crazy, meaning that Jay's nailed it - if you can't live without moving to LA then you need to do it, otherwise, probably not. I also liked Richard's comment that if you are considering this rationally then it's probably a bad idea.

2) You need to define "happy". Is it making a living as a composer, or is it making a living as a composer in LA?

3) you need to measure all the factors.

So my tale...

Yes, I'd love to know if I have what it takes to make it in LA. Well, I used to care about that, these days that feels like more of a self-centered question, and those tend to get me in trouble.

Yes, I'd really love to make my living as a composer/arranger/player, the order changes from time to time. In fact I spend a great deal of time and energy honing my skills and working on projects when they come up.

My wife and kids really like our home, their schools, our friends, etc. Moving them would be a challenge. This is compounded by issues I don't care to share.

The other challenge, for me, is that I love audio engineering as much as I love making music. Really, it would be difficult for me to pick only one field.

So presently audio engineering pays the bills, and music covers the studio costs, and new libraries (mostly<G>), and so on.

In the balance I think my best plan is to continue to expand on opportunities to write music, and if music provides a better income than engineering I'll switch focus, otherwise I'll be content.

Maybe if I was young and single I'd set out for LA, but I didn't. I can live with that.


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