# Opinions about Spaces 2



## Simon Groß (May 8, 2020)

I hear everywhere that Reverb is really important and makes a huge difference. Since Spaces 2 is free with the CC i use it all the time (Most of the Time the NY Strings Preset). No I was asking myself how good it is. I mean I like the Sound, but may be something like VahalleRoom etc... even better?


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## VinRice (May 8, 2020)

Spaces is excellent, second only to the monster that is Altiverb for convolution reverb. Valhalla and other algorithmic reverbs are a different kettle-o-fish and much more a matter of taste and intention.


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## Ashermusic (May 8, 2020)

VinRice said:


> Spaces is excellent, second only to the monster that is Altiverb for convolution reverb. Valhalla and other algorithmic reverbs are a different kettle-o-fish and much more a matter of taste and intention.




Spaces 2 isa an improvement over the original, which was pretty good.

I get blow back about this, but honestly, the day I simply swapped out 5-6 Altiverb instances and replaced them with similar IRs in Spaces, my mixes sounded less muddy.


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## Scalms (May 8, 2020)

I second that.. Spaces 2 is excellent. I demo'd Altiverb, and while it sounded nice, I couldn't wrap my mind around the price tag, 3x higher than Spaces II (when on sale), unless of course you want IRs ad infinitum, or Teldex, etc, which Altiverb offers. I realize it's all about personal taste, but if everything was similar between Altiverb and SpacesII, I would go with SpacesII. It just gives a nice clear sound. My go-to is actually Seventh Heaven, since I like the way it subtlety "colors" my tracks with a subconscious warmth (hard to explain), but when I want incredible rich feeling of a space, I go with Spaces II. Plus, if CSS is one of your libraries of use, when you want a brighter sound (instead of the dark sound out of the box), just combine with Spaces II, and it's works great.


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## doctoremmet (May 8, 2020)

Scalms said:


> My go-to is actually Seventh Heaven, since I like the way it subtlety "colors" my tracks with a subconscious warmth (hard to explain)


I second this


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 8, 2020)

+1 for Spaces II. It’s my reverb for anything orchestral.


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## JamieLang (May 9, 2020)

I don't do orchestral work...Spaces2 is great. Altiverb is a problem, so I'm not surprised by the above. 

WavesIR1 with it's 96khz studio and scoring stage IRs is lovely and typically sells for like $35. 

Cubase's Reverence and Logic's Space Designer both do a lovely job at IRs.

Seventh Heaven sums the inputs like a Lexicon. Even though it's a very nice sounding reverb, this makes it unusable for my (again not orchestral) use.

I'm a picky bastid about reverb--because I dont' like to "hear it". that means I need a dual mono input (or what USED to be called true stereo in the hardware world)...and I can say I'm totally happy with Spaces2+Abbey Road Plates. Best reverb combos I've ever used. Hard or software. The new IK Sunset Sound is a nice thing for what I do--but, would be completely inappropriate for orchestral stuffs.


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## labornvain (May 9, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Spaces 2 isa an improvement over the original, which was pretty good.
> 
> I get blow back about this, but honestly, the day I simply swapped out 5-6 Altiverb instances and replaced them with similar IRs in Spaces, my mixes sounded less muddy.


Perhaps you get blow back because your comment doesn't make any sense. Altiverb is an IR player. Just like Spaces. They're only as good as the IRs you have loaded into them.

I'm not trying to be pedantic, but blaming the sound of an IR on the IR player is a bit like blaming a bad cup of coffee on the cup.

Having said that, I do prefer some of the IRs in Spaces to those that come with Altiverb.

But considering the availability of third party impulses, it's hard to believe one can't find something suitable for anything under either platform.

I'm not trying to defend Altiverb. And I do agree it's overpriced. But there's nothing about it that makes it inherently muddier then Spaces, plus it does have some bells and whistles that other IR players do not have.


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## John R Wilson (May 9, 2020)

I use Spaces 2 with East West Hollywood orchestra. It is a nice reverb.


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## Scalms (May 9, 2020)

labornvain said:


> Perhaps you get blow back because your comment doesn't make any sense. Altiverb is an IR player. Just like Spaces. They're only as good as the IRs you have loaded into them.
> 
> I'm not trying to be pedantic, but blaming the sound of an IR on the IR player is a bit like blaming a bad cup of coffee on the cup.
> 
> ...


I think it’s how they recorded the IRs that make the difference by different firing techniques. Altiverb sounds good to me but nothing special. Spaces2 just sounded clearer and more pristine to me, but maybe it’s just subconscious bias because of the price tag


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## Quantum Leap (May 9, 2020)

Lots of good Reverbs. I just bought a reverb pedal for my OB-6 analogue synth called Big Sky. Sounds freakin great! Altiverb comes with instructions on how to create your own impulses. These instructions detail how most of their impulses were done. Take a look. Spaces uses the same philosophy of recording that was used to create all the most popular orchestral plug ins and record Hollywood soundtracks, plus the sound firing techniques. It’s a different approach than Altiverb. Altiverb gives you a ton of control over its impulses. Spaces give you less control. Those controls in Altiverb alter the sound of the impulses, even when everything is turned off. That’s the clarity thing people notice.


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## labornvain (May 9, 2020)

Scalms said:


> I think it’s how they recorded the IRs that make the difference by different firing techniques. Altiverb sounds good to me but nothing special. Spaces2 just sounded clearer and more pristine to me, but maybe it’s just subconscious bias because of the price tag


No, I agree. Altiverb IRs, while warm and rich sounding, seem to be lacking in the "sheen" department somewhat compared to spaces. This isn't true for all of the IRs, but I think you're on to something there.

Of course, sometimes that warm, rich sound is exactly what's needed, depending on the track.


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## labornvain (May 9, 2020)

Quantum Leap said:


> Those controls in Altiverb alter the sound of the impulses, even when everything is turned off. That’s the clarity thing people notice.



So I've tested this before by ear, but yours was such an interesting claim that I decided to run a bit more rigorous test.

I loaded up some IRS in both Altiverb and SIR to see if there was any difference. I checked it using Fabfilter Pro Q 3 which allows you to superimpose the spectral analysis from two different sources.

They didn't perfectly null, which was kind of interesting. But they came incredibly close and certainly too close to hear a difference.


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## tmhuud (May 9, 2020)

SPACES is awesome. Alti-verb was muddy for us. I sold it. Can you believe it. I actually SOLD something??


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## Quantum Leap (May 9, 2020)

I created Spaces 1 in the Sony DRE-S777 sampling reverb. Using the current version of Altiverb at that time, I put the impulses in Altiverb and Logic Space designer. They sounded exactly the same as they did in my Sony DRE-S777 sampling reverb in Space Designer. In Altiverb, they sounded like they had been converted into a model. I suspect that there is some complex stuff going on there. If you really want to hear it clearly listen the reverb 100% wet. It’s not subtle.


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## Ashermusic (May 10, 2020)

labornvain said:


> Perhaps you get blow back because your comment doesn't make any sense. Altiverb is an IR player. Just like Spaces. They're only as good as the IRs you have loaded into them.
> 
> I'm not trying to be pedantic, but blaming the sound of an IR on the IR player is a bit like blaming a bad cup of coffee on the cup.
> 
> ...



I was told by a knowledegeable source who I will not name because I haven’t asked his permission that all the controls and features that Altiverb adds that Spaces does not degrades its engine.

Again, if I had bounced out my Logic project with 5-6 Altiverb instances, and then rebounced it after swapping them out for Spaces, trying to choose similar IRs, which are admittedly different, I think you would have agreed the latter sounded less muddy.


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## AllanH (May 10, 2020)

I use Spaces II on most tracks. What I really like is that Spaces II places the orchestra in a "real" hall, i.e. it sounds like an actual concert hall. In contrast, many of the other reverbs I have, simply add the reverberation but is missing the personality of the hall.

I do think the skills of Nick Phonix, and the techniques he seems to have developed, clearly show in the product. Some of the bigger halls can be a bit boomy (they are big after all), but that can be tamed with the built-in controls.


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## Consona (May 10, 2020)

Shame the upgrade to version II is so expensive.


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## Patryk Scelina (May 10, 2020)

Consona said:


> Shame the upgrade to version II is so expensive.


It's been for 79 bucks some time ago


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## Matt Riley (May 10, 2020)

Patryk Scelina said:


> It's been for 79 bucks some time ago


I would buy for that price. It’s $184 now.


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## Sapphire (May 10, 2020)

Scalms said:


> I second that.. Spaces 2 is excellent. I demo'd Altiverb, and while it sounded nice, I couldn't wrap my mind around the price tag, 3x higher than Spaces II (when on sale), unless of course you want IRs ad infinitum, or Teldex, etc, which Altiverb offers. I realize it's all about personal taste, but if everything was similar between Altiverb and SpacesII, I would go with SpacesII. It just gives a nice clear sound. My go-to is actually Seventh Heaven, since I like the way it subtlety "colors" my tracks with a subconscious warmth (hard to explain), but when I want incredible rich feeling of a space, I go with Spaces II. Plus, if CSS is one of your libraries of use, when you want a brighter sound (instead of the dark sound out of the box), just combine with Spaces II, and it's works great.





doctoremmet said:


> I second this



Just for clarification purposes, are you talking about the normal or the pro version? How much of a difference does the version even make?


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## doctoremmet (May 10, 2020)

Sapphire said:


> Just for clarification purposes, are you talking about the normal or the pro version?


I have the $69 non-pro version. It is simply beautiful. I believe you lose some of the finer tweaking options, but there's still a lot left to tweak! 

The pro version has a lot of additional “presets” (IRs) of a Version 2 Bricasti M7 firmware update. The light version I use does not have those. Maybe I’m missing a ton of goodness, I dunno. I urge you to watch Cory Pelizzari’s YT review. Anyway, the light version is easily (for ME) the coolest verb I have ever heard.


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## Patryk Scelina (May 10, 2020)

Matt Riley said:


> I would buy for that price. It’s $184 now.


Yea there was sale for upgrades some time ago


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## Scalms (May 10, 2020)

Sapphire said:


> Just for clarification purposes, are you talking about the normal or the pro version? How much of a difference does the version even make?


I agree with doctoremmett here concerning Seventh Heaven. Non-Pro version is just as beautiful. Both pro and non-pro have my favorite IR: "Scoring Stage". But only the Pro has my favorite church-style IRs ("South Church" & "Cathedral). Non-pro has some other church presets, but it does not have a Cathedral. Check online, they have the list of presets for each. I'd recommend demo-ing both versions, which is what I did, to figure out which presets you really like/need, and then wait to Black Friday for a 40% off sale, which they've done the last couple of years. Pro has some more dials, but quite honestly, I move them back and forth and can't hear too much difference in sound


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## Sapphire (May 10, 2020)

Scalms said:


> I agree with doctoremmett here concerning Seventh Heaven. Non-Pro version is just as beautiful. Both pro and non-pro have my favorite IR: "Scoring Stage". But only the Pro has my favorite church-style IRs ("South Church" & "Cathedral). Non-pro has some other church presets, but it does not have a Cathedral. Check online, they have the list of presets for each. I'd recommend demo-ing both versions, which is what I did, to figure out which presets you really like/need, and then wait to Black Friday for a 40% off sale, which they've done the last couple of years. Pro has some more dials, but quite honestly, I move them back and forth and can't hear too much difference in sound



It might be my lack of understanding of IR Reverbs, their setup or blindness, but is it intended that every panning done prior to 7th heaven will be pushed in the middle? I mean, i could just put the wetness at 100% and then use the initial panned dry signal, but in cory's review it doesn't seem like that's how it should work. To clarify: it sounds like there would be a mono speaker right in front of me, but it's in the chosen space.


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## Scalms (May 10, 2020)

Sapphire said:


> It might be my lack of understanding of IR Reverbs, their setup or blindness, but is it intended that every panning done prior to 7th heaven will be pushed in the middle? I mean, i could just put the wetness at 100% and then use the initial panned dry signal, but in cory's review it doesn't seem like that's how it should work. To clarify: it sounds like there would be a mono speaker right in front of me, but it's in the chosen space.


not necessarily. In Cory’s video he had 7th heaven plugins set as inserts, which will push the sound back in your mix, so perhaps some of your initial panning signal will get lost as the reverb which is now set further back bounces around in the field. If you want to retain some of the panning then use the reverb as the send which will allow dry signal to source closer, so to the listener will hear the panned signal better. closer signals will be able to be heard as left or right then signals further away. I’m by no means a reverb expert, but this is my understanding, hopefully this gave some insight, did I answer your question or just ramble? I may have misunderstood it


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## Sapphire (May 11, 2020)

Scalms said:


> not necessarily. In Cory’s video he had 7th heaven plugins set as inserts, which will push the sound back in your mix, so perhaps some of your initial panning signal will get lost as the reverb which is now set further back bounces around in the field. If you want to retain some of the panning then use the reverb as the send which will allow dry signal to source closer, so to the listener will hear the panned signal better. closer signals will be able to be heard as left or right then signals further away. I’m by no means a reverb expert, but this is my understanding, hopefully this gave some insight, did I answer your question or just ramble? I may have misunderstood it



I mean that my reverb signal is de-facto identical, even if i put the L and R signal both on the L channel (no signal on R) or the other way around etc. It sounds like there is exactly one sound origin thats in the middle (even if this signal is set to pretty dry in 7th). The reverb doesn't just make it less obvious, it simply doesn't now what panning is. 😁 Cory didn't set it to 100% wet, so he also had the dry signal from 7th. This dry signal is coming out of that one speaker in the middle as well for me. No other Reverb I have, convolution or algorithmic, behaves like that. It sounds like it takes the signal, makes it mono and then puts that through a centered speaker in a room. As I said, i could just use it at 100% wet and put the initial panned dry signal (before 7th makes that mono) in the mix and balance those two as dry/wet (7ths dry signal is not panned anymore) and it will give me some of my stereo field back, but I would think that I would read about this problem more often if it was normal, as it's very obvious to the ears when you first try to use it like a normal reverb before putting it in a routed template.
I can send sound examples later.


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## Scalms (May 11, 2020)

Sapphire said:


> I mean that my reverb signal is de-facto identical, even if i put the L and R signal both on the L channel (no signal on R) or the other way around etc. It sounds like there is exactly one sound origin thats in the middle (even if this signal is set to pretty dry in 7th). The reverb doesn't just make it less obvious, it simply doesn't now what panning is. 😁 Cory didn't set it to 100% wet, so he also had the dry signal from 7th. This dry signal is coming out of that one speaker in the middle as well for me. No other Reverb I have, convolution or algorithmic, behaves like that. It sounds like it takes the signal, makes it mono and then puts that through a centered speaker in a room. As I said, i could just use it at 100% wet and put the initial panned dry signal (before 7th makes that mono) in the mix and balance those two as dry/wet (7ths dry signal is not panned anymore) and it will give me some of my stereo field back, but I would think that I would read about this problem more often if it was normal, as it's very obvious to the ears when you first try to use it like a normal reverb before putting it in a routed template.
> I can send sound examples later.


Oh maybe i see what you mean now, i think. If you reduce the 7th Heaven mix below 50% do you gain some of the mono back? Cory still had it set a bit above 50% if I recall. I compared my 7th heaven pro with fabfilter and both function similarly with regards to panned hard left sound source, except for the fact that 7th heaven I need to go a little bit below 50% mix to get it back to being panned left. This may be just an issue of getting the "sweet spot" with regards to wet signal to keep the pan. My other reverbs are all similar to this, except they do a slightly better job with panned signal at higher mix percentage. 

Plus if you control the strength of the late reflections (reduce them) in 7th heaven this could help with the issue, although not sure if controlling these is only possible in Pro.

I'd recommend reaching out to the Liquidsonics folks as they would be more than happy to address this issue. They live and breathe reverbs.


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## Sapphire (May 11, 2020)

Scalms said:


> Oh maybe i see what you mean now, i think. If you reduce the 7th Heaven mix below 50% do you gain some of the mono back? Cory still had it set a bit above 50% if I recall. I compared my 7th heaven pro with fabfilter and both function similarly with regards to panned hard left sound source, except for the fact that 7th heaven I need to go a little bit below 50% mix to get it back to being panned left. This may be just an issue of getting the "sweet spot" with regards to wet signal to keep the pan. My other reverbs are all similar to this, except they do a slightly better job with panned signal at higher mix percentage.
> 
> Plus if you control the strength of the late reflections (reduce them) in 7th heaven this could help with the issue, although not sure if controlling these is only possible in Pro.
> 
> I'd recommend reaching out to the Liquidsonics folks as they would be more than happy to address this issue. They live and breathe reverbs.



The Problem was the VST3 version for me. The VST 2.4 version works as expected. Will let them know.


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## paulmatthew (May 11, 2020)

Sapphire said:


> The Problem was the VST3 version for me. The VST 2.4 version works as expected. Will let them know.


Is it Ilok usb dongle only activation or can you activate it via Ilok manager? Spaces only workls via the dongle but I'm curious about Spaces .


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## Sapphire (May 13, 2020)

paulmatthew said:


> Is it Ilok usb dongle only activation or can you activate it via Ilok manager? Spaces only workls via the dongle but I'm curious about Spaces .



Works with dongle or cloud activation (via ilok manager but not machine license).


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## dsblais (Jan 2, 2021)

Scalms said:


> I couldn't wrap my mind around the price tag, 3x higher than Spaces II (when on sale), unless of course you want IRs ad infinitum, or Teldex, etc, which Altiverb offers.


Does anyone have any suggestions for which Spaces II preset(s) best mixes with or most closely matches the Teldex recordings used by most Orchestra Tools libraries? Thanks in advance.


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## Scalms (Jan 2, 2021)

great question, I haven't tried to match Teldex, as I just recently entered the OT ecosystem, but I will test it out when I get around to it. 

Others want to chime in here? 

I think I recall a separate thread that asked this same question so you may want to hunt around the forum to see if you can find it.


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## Leigh (Jan 2, 2021)

Ashermusic said:


> Spaces 2 isa an improvement over the original, which was pretty good.
> 
> I get blow back about this, but honestly, the day I simply swapped out 5-6 Altiverb instances and replaced them with similar IRs in Spaces, my mixes sounded less muddy.


The price was right for me so I just got Spaces 2 and I agree with Jay. My first impression is that it is definitely less muddy. I'm liking it so far!

**Leigh


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## Stewart Kirwan (Feb 13, 2021)

Waiting for a Spaces 2 upgrade sale. Nothing so far..


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 13, 2021)

Stewart Kirwan said:


> Waiting for a Spaces 2 upgrade sale. Nothing so far..


It is on sale...upgrade from Spaces I for $184. Or the full version fir $199! What’s worse, is a second license is still $199. For that reason alone, I went and bought LiquidSonics Cinematic Rooms and Seventh Heaven, each comes with two licenses. I’ve been using Spaces I&2 for years, but the pricing schemes are just ridiculous. Nice plug-ins, but CR is a gorgeous sounding reverb for orchestral music.


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## Fleer (Oct 2, 2021)

Ashermusic said:


> Spaces 2 isa an improvement over the original, which was pretty good.
> 
> I get blow back about this, but honestly, the day I simply swapped out 5-6 Altiverb instances and replaced them with similar IRs in Spaces, my mixes sounded less muddy.


And the instrument specific presets allow for some very detailed reverb choices. Many more of them in Spaces 2 compared to the original. It’s what makes this plug-in pretty unique in my book.


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## AudioLoco (Oct 3, 2021)

Specifically CR vs Spaces II ??!
Any opinions from someone who tried or has both?


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## Fleer (Oct 3, 2021)

Wow, that ambient electric guitar preset in Hamburg Cathedral. Mesmerizing.


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## BassClef (Oct 3, 2021)

Just a old retired guy here... and VI Hobbyist composer. I am not a reverb hoarder and not much of a reverb tweaker, preferring to use presets with occasional slight adjustments to predelay, high and low pass filters, or rarely shortening a tail. I picked up Spaces II on sale last year... Maybe $150... and love the way Spaces II sounds, all of the great presets and VERY FEW buttons and knobs to get me in trouble. And as stated above, those "stage location" or "instrument specific" presets are quite good for full orchestral works. You also get some great digital presets from Lexicon 300, AMS 16 and others as well. 

I would like to listen to Cinematic Rooms for sound comparison, but all of those buttons, switches and knobs intimidate me!


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## Billy Palmer (Oct 3, 2021)

It's very good!


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## sostenuto (Oct 3, 2021)

Impressed with Spaces /Spaces II user support for long time. Current $299. just not realistic for home studio needs, as well as list of respected Reverbs. Do not see a 'non-pro version ... ?
Altiverb was just on major promo @ $99.  Now kaput !
Will be helpful to know which other Convolution reverbs get seriously close to Spaces ...... at least until cost options improve, or needs increase.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 3, 2021)

Spaces is a nice collection of rooms. I imagine spaces2 is nice also but EW continues to offend me with their upgrade pricing so it’s a hard pass for me. I have many other reverb options already. I think $150 on sale for a new user is a great deal if you don’t have a solid collection of IR’s already.

There are many IR’s floating around covering various hardware devices for cheap or free but the best real world halls are mainly only available by purchasing something like spaces or altiverb, mirpro or a few others in the 500+ dollar range. 

The main advantage I see to spaces is that it matches up with the IR’s bundled into EWHO mics. If you use EWHO a lot then it could be advantageous for getting other non EW instruments into the room.


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## rudi (Oct 3, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Also Altiverb now on major promo @ $99.


??


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 3, 2021)

$99? Where?


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## sostenuto (Oct 3, 2021)

rudi said:


> ??


Musta died Oct 1 ? 😭


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## sostenuto (Oct 3, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> $99? Where?


Sorry just gonzo ~ Oct 1 ?


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## Zanshin (Oct 3, 2021)

LOL ok


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## sostenuto (Oct 4, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> LOL ok


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Zynaptiq's - Adaptiverb remains on sale at $99. _ e.g. _









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