# Wich reverb for cinematic music ( Lexicon PCM , space II )



## darkneo57 (Nov 24, 2019)

hi

I'm french, 34 yo, piano teacher, I am a beginner in computer music. I'm looking for good reverb.
It would be to make rather cinematic music( film scoring, video games music...) . Could you advice me please. 

what is the most appropriate reverb for making cinematic music...? For a beginner is this better convolution or algorithmic reverb? 
Apparently the best thing is to use both, but given the complexity of using reverb, I guess to start with, it's better to use only one type.

Having subscribed to Eastwest's cloud composition, I have the Space II concolution reverb. Is this a good place to start?
I've seen that many people use Lexicon PCM native reverb which is an algorithmic reverb, is that better?

Given my lack of experience, I turn to you. What will you advise me?

Thank you very much, and good Black friday!


----------



## axb312 (Nov 24, 2019)

Lots of threads about this on here. My personal favourite, which doesn't get mentioned a lot is Acon Digital Verberate..


----------



## Cinebient (Nov 24, 2019)

For me (but i´m no pro at all just a reverb junkie) it is now more a matter of the complete environment.
I do not know all reverbs and options but so far the 2CAudio stuff is the king for me and especially their latest combination of Precedence and Breeze 2 for a great spatalization. There might exist similar tools but not with this workflow and also for a good price. Also their B2 reverb is the one i always go for when i need something really special, super lush and just dense and big like nothing else. 
Of course that all is also a personal flavor and you might get 100 suggestions. Best is to demo of course a few and see how they work for you.
However, 2CAudio also offers great information about their latest things and it is interesting to read how things works together and then the workflow and GUI are the best too for me. 
Even if you would prefer other reverbs/spatalization tools so i can recommend to have a look at them to get interesting informations about this theme.
For me it is next level spatalization stuff which makes a big different. No matter if i use it with acoustic samples or synths. 
F.e. Breeze 2.5 is so CPU efficient and it is at the same time one of the best sounding reverbs ever, especially in combination with Precedence (a spatalization tool which can be linked with Breeze instances....worth to read about how this works on their site as well). 
At the end....just demo the things you think might be the right tools and trust your own ears and feeling.
Have fun.


----------



## vitocorleone123 (Nov 24, 2019)

Algorithmic or convolution reverb? Decide that first based on what you need or want. —> does your sound need to be in a real environment? Convolution. Do you just want the ambience without trying to replicate actual places? Algorithmic.

For algo reverbs (I don't need convo in my music), I downloaded and tried as many as I could that would allow such a thing. I didn't like Breeze, myself, though I tried hard - it just didn't seem to stick to the music as well as some others. This is why it's so subjective. There's no wrong answer, other than paying for one that sounds worse to your ears than another. I didn't feel Seventh Heaven Pro and some other expensive ones were worth the $. Other reverbs had user interfaces I didn't gel with even though they sounded good. Tons of great reverbs out there, without a doubt. For my needs, I went with Valhalla Vintage Verb for more colored flavors of reverb, Exponential (now iZotope) Nimbus for more transparent flavors, and Relab Sonsig-A for everything in between. I'm happy to have the free Acon Digital reverb in the toolbox, and I also have Soundtoys Little Plate, D16 Toraverb 2, Valhalla Shimmer, and Eventide Blackhole.

Lexicon PCM - good sounding reverbs with TONS of options (are you going to dig deep on reverb settings?), but seemingly abandoned with years and years and years of no apparent development. I'd personally look elsewhere... unless those end up sounding the best to you.


----------



## Joe Totino (Nov 24, 2019)

My opinion with reverb, is its all personal preference! I used altiverb for awhile and was incredibly happy with my results. But that’s a pricey plugin, and after experimenting with others, I found other verbs I like. Lately I’ve been using the reverb that comes with the Slate Digital Bundle, as it comes with a bunch of Bricasti impulse responses. It sounds great! I went to a MasterClass taught by Jake Jackson awhile back and he mentioned using 2 reverbs on his mixes. So I’ve been combining a long and a shorter room together, and love the natural feeling it provides my orchestral samples. I can crank up the long if I want a more dramatic effect. But play around with em. I think Spaces II is a good place to start.


----------



## Noeticus (Nov 24, 2019)

Altiverb, Blackhole, Valhalla etc etc...


----------



## BassClef (Nov 24, 2019)

Joe Totino said:


> My opinion with reverb, is its all personal preference! I used altiverb for awhile and was incredibly happy with my results. But that’s a pricey plugin, and after experimenting with others, I found other verbs I like. Lately I’ve been using the reverb that comes with the Slate Digital Bundle, as it comes with a bunch of Bricasti impulse responses. It sounds great! I went to a MasterClass taught by Jake Jackson awhile back and he mentioned using 2 reverbs on his mixes. So I’ve been combining a long and a shorter room together, and love the natural feeling it provides my orchestral samples. I can crank up the long if I want a more dramatic effect. But play around with em. I think Spaces II is a good place to start.



Interesting... I remember a video whee Jackson said that he likes to use two different reverbs, especially when mixing various wet/dry samples or recordings. He uses both an algorithmic reverb and a convolution reverb routing just a little of these two to the already wet content, and more to the already dry content.


----------



## darkneo57 (Nov 24, 2019)

thank you for your replies.



> For a beginner is this better convolution or algorithmic reverb?
> Apparently the best thing is to use both, but given the complexity of using reverb, I guess to start with, it's better to use only one type.



i own Space II ( Composer cloud EW ), now lexicon Native reverb is 240 $ ), i wonder if i should buy it to complete space II. Or maybe, it's so much more better ?


----------



## jamwerks (Nov 24, 2019)

Spaces II, Seventh Heaven, Exponential Audio Nimbus & R4. Done


----------



## vitocorleone123 (Nov 24, 2019)

jamwerks said:


> Spaces II, Seventh Heaven, Exponential Audio Nimbus & R4. Done


That'd certainly be a strong combo. One could start with 7th and Nimbus if they don't need a convolution.


----------



## Peaky Blinder (Nov 24, 2019)

Try the demo for Vahalla Room. If you like its only $50. Set it up on a effects bus.








Valhalla Room: Room Reverb Plugin | Valhalla DSP Plugins


It’s grade A class - number one in its division. ValhallaRoom is a versatile, true stereo algorithmic reverb. It features twelve original reverberation algorithms (including the latest Dark reverb modes, Nostromo, Narcissus, Sulaco and LV-426), and produces a wide range of natural...




valhalladsp.com


----------



## gsilbers (Nov 24, 2019)

Most of all the ones you read about nowadays are pretty good. i have most of them. i stopped caring about which one is better around the lexicom pcm and now thats the one i use on all just to stay consistent. 
i would say to look into the way youd use them. IR reverbs will yield a more realistic sound and algorithmic will create a nicer wash which is what most people and prodcutions use so we tend to feel it more relatable. and a combination of real and that wash is where the magic lies. then there is special effects reverb. which has very long tails with strong modulation and other tricks. 

to start out, i would say valhalla for algorythmic. that spaces2 for IR and blackhole for effects. 
if its expensive there is the Waves IR-L which works fine. and blakhole has some random sales. 

but again, they are not the best... since its just subjective. to me those work great. i think christian henderson channel has some reverb shootouts and they coudnt tell which one is which from a long list of reverb so check it out and maybe youll hear something youll like. most sound great and imo, gone are the days of reverbs like rVerb or trueverb from waves which you can tell the difference.


----------



## MartinH. (Nov 24, 2019)

darkneo57 said:


> hi
> 
> I'm french, 34 yo, piano teacher, I am a beginner in computer music. I'm looking for good reverb.
> It would be to make rather cinematic music( film scoring, video games music...) . Could you advice me please.
> ...




Personally I (still a beginner with the whole mixing stuff too) think it's crazy how much people here spend on reverbs. If I were you I'd stick with spaces, try out a couple of free algorithmic reverbs like this one: 





Dragonfly Reverb - Very Nice Free Reverb


I've been playing with this and think it's really great, especially for vocals, playing with the early reflections and delay. https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragonfly-reverb




vi-control.net




or the unique protoverb from u-he: 








Protoverb: Experimental research reverb


Protoverb: Experimental research reverb



u-he.com




or see if you can find the free IR convolution files for the famous bricasti hardware reverb. Seems like the site is down at the moment, but they were hosted at samplicity.com somewhere.

I think especially as a beginner you are better off investing time (and money sometimes) into learning to use the tools you have properly over getting a different tool. Meaning I'd rather look for a book or course on building a good sounding template and mastering a track, than buying yet another reverb. With spaces 2 you already have quite a good one imho (I don't own it though).

@Joël Dollié has written such an e-book that I liked. I think it's called "Mixing Modern Orchestral Music" on amazon.


----------



## bvaughn0402 (Nov 24, 2019)

I’ve tried so many ... and still end up back with VSS


----------



## vitocorleone123 (Nov 24, 2019)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I’ve tried so many ... and still end up back with VSS


I tried that. Couldn't stand the interface, and it didn't sound as good to my ears. So subjective! Truly, the only "right" reverb is the one(s) that sounds best to you. No one else can really do anything but list options to demo.


----------



## bvaughn0402 (Nov 24, 2019)

It is true. To be honest I don’t like it by itself. And I only use the Large Hall preset on a shared buss. I think I first heard it on that Christian Henson reverb competition video. I need to experiment with others again.


----------



## bvaughn0402 (Nov 24, 2019)

I need to experiment with Sonsig again. And love Spaces II. I hope Eareckon has a BF sale because I’d like to try that.


----------



## vitocorleone123 (Nov 24, 2019)

bvaughn0402 said:


> I need to experiment with Sonsig again. And love Spaces II. I hope Eareckon has a BF sale because I’d like to try that.



I passed on Sonsig originally after doing a demo. But then they extended the release sale, and I tried it again. It was a grower. And it stuck on me.


----------



## bvaughn0402 (Nov 25, 2019)

Anyone know if Eareckon will have BF sales?


----------



## bryla (Nov 25, 2019)

Relab RHall! I have been in love with it since demoing it many years ago – always convincing myself that I had all the reverbs I needed, I just had to learn to use them. Alas many years of grudging through the ones I have I finally bit the bullet and bought it today! I love that sound – simply RHall is the sound from the scoring stage mix console.


----------



## Dynamoe (Nov 25, 2019)

darkneo57 said:


> hi
> 
> I'm french, 34 yo, piano teacher, I am a beginner in computer music. I'm looking for good reverb.
> It would be to make rather cinematic music( film scoring, video games music...) . Could you advice me please.
> ...



You might want to see this (if you havn’t already)


----------



## darkneo57 (Nov 25, 2019)

thank you ,i alreday watched it, but my question was more : is there any reverb which is more suitable for a beginner ?


----------



## Billy Palmer (Nov 25, 2019)

Cheap option:
Vahalla room - particularly if you're doing hyped trailer-y stuff and compressing your mix. It works very nicely for that.

For more spacious and lush stuff, I use https://www.2caudio.com/products/b2 .


----------



## jamwerks (Nov 25, 2019)

MartinH. said:


> Personally I (still a beginner with the whole mixing stuff too) think it's crazy how much people here spend on reverbs...


Man you're no fun


----------



## vitocorleone123 (Nov 25, 2019)

darkneo57 said:


> thank you ,i alreday watched it, but my question was more : is there any reverb which is more suitable for a beginner ?



Valhalla Room or Relab Sonsig-A are both pretty straightforward, and can go a little deeper.


----------



## Bluemount Score (Nov 25, 2019)

It was mentioned before but I once again have to recommend to start out with Dragonfly Reverb. Awesome plugin. Capable of most you will ever need. And best of all... it's free


----------



## Vin (Nov 26, 2019)

Reverb stuff can be pretty intimidating for a beginner (it definitely was for me when I was starting). Most of those options mentioned here are great and will do the job. After a while, you'll find out the reverb taste is largely personal. Pick one and learn what the different controls do. If you're on a budget, there aren't better options than ValhallaDSP reverbs (Room & VintageVerb). If you want the reverb that's heard on most film scores, your options are:

https://relabdevelopment.com/product/vsr-s24/ (Relab VSR S24) (TC 6000 plugin): I've had both and the plugin is indistinguishable. My personal favorite.

Relab LX480 (Lexicon 480L plugin ): Heard on countless scores and records.

https://lexiconpro.com/en/products/pcm-native-reverb-plug-in-bundle (Lexicon PCM Native) (Lexicon PCM96 plugin): Also heard on countless scores and records.

LiquidSonics' Seventh Heaven (Bricasti M7 plugin): Recent favorite of film score mixers and producers. A bit too "clean" for my taste (M7), but amazing on dry sources.

EW Spaces and Audio Ease Altiverb are probably the best convolution options out there.

For starters, find a hall that you like, set it to 100% wet on a send bus and send individual instruments to taste. If your libraries are already "wet" (recorded in their regular seating and in studio/scoring stage/hall), you don't need to worry about early reflections and other stuff most of the time - sending to a single hall instance of your reverb is enough in most cases.


----------



## darkneo57 (Nov 26, 2019)

thank you so much everybody

thank you Vin for your time and your precise explanations


----------



## vitocorleone123 (Nov 26, 2019)

Advanced: if your libraries are recorded wet, with a lot of reverb, sometimes using a tool like Acon Digital Deverberate2 to remove a fair amount of the reverb tail so you can then add it back in under your control can help. This can help if doing hybrid music or blending multiple libraries.

Vin still left off some very viable and affordable algorithmic options: Acon Verberate 2, 2c Breeze, and Relab Sonsig A - the last of which is the easiest to use reverb I've tried, and best price/performance when on sale. That said, I'm not scoring films, just making music. Good luck!


----------



## curry36 (Mar 30, 2021)

bryla said:


> Relab RHall! I have been in love with it since demoing it many years ago – always convincing myself that I had all the reverbs I needed, I just had to learn to use them. Alas many years of grudging through the ones I have I finally bit the bullet and bought it today! I love that sound – simply RHall is the sound from the scoring stage mix console.


Are you using any particular presets? I tried recreating both the Lexicon Hall and the Lexicon Random Hall with Relabs LX480. The 480s Random Hall sounds great, no question, but I found that the random Large Hall wasn't the best preset for a scoring stage. Instead the normal Large Hall did it's job for me, and the Relab couldn't recreate 100% of Lexicons musical behaviour regarding lush emphasis on transients. However Relabs Random Hall (HD) did convince me in comparison with Lexicons Random Hall.


----------

