# Cremona String Quartet in Komplete 13



## mojamusic (Sep 11, 2020)

I'm intrigued. I have several string libraries, many more than I need but... I'm intrigued.









CREMONA QUARTET


CREMONA QUARTET Iconic string instruments dating back to the 1600s, recorded in exceptional detail with cutting-edge technology for an extremely realistic sound.




www.native-instruments.com


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## Bluemount Score (Sep 11, 2020)

Hopefully NI this time didn't decide to record each of them in a different room lol


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## doctoremmet (Sep 11, 2020)

It’s not in the regular Komplete. You may want to change the thread title to reflect that.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 11, 2020)

Bluemount Score said:


> Hopefully NI this time didn't decide to record each of them in a different room lol


There is an entire thread, including conspiracy theories and anti NYT journalism rants, that make pretty clear that in this case they were at least recorded in the same VILLAGE  as their name suggests. Could still mean different rooms of course


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## Jkist (Sep 11, 2020)

They showed how they sort of did everything, and their philosophy in this video. Pretty cool!


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## José Herring (Sep 11, 2020)

Sincerely interested in these. Anybody using them yet?


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## John R Wilson (Sep 11, 2020)

I've updated to Komplete 12 Ultimate so get the Komplete 13 update on the first of october and get the Violin then. I'm also very interested in the rest of them! they look great!! If I like the violin then i'll probably update to the rest of them during a 50% off sale.


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## John R Wilson (Sep 11, 2020)

José Herring said:


> Sincerely interested in these. Anybody using them yet?



Believe only the Violin has been released so far. The rest of them are coming out on the 1st October.


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## widescreen (Sep 11, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> Believe only the Violin has been released so far. The rest of them are coming out on the 1st October.


Knowing is better than believing, like always. But it is right, only the violin is released so far. I'm playing with my newly bought Embertone Intimate Strings to pass by the waiting time. Especially as Cremona is missing a bass.


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## mojamusic (Sep 11, 2020)

José Herring said:


> Sincerely interested in these. Anybody using them yet?



Available Oct 1


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## Dr.Quest (Sep 11, 2020)

widescreen said:


> Especially as Cremona is missing a bass.


String Quartets don't typically have Bass that I've seen. They are most often 2 violins, viola and cello unless I'm mistaken.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 11, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> String Quartets don't typically have Bass that I've seen. They are most often 2 violins, viola and cello unless I'm mistaken.


Correct


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## Frederick (Sep 11, 2020)

I'm also intrigued! In the coming weeks I will probably be able to complete the 8Dio Studio Quartet Series and on October 1st I will get the Cremona Quartet. I'm looking forward to both equally.


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## HeliaVox (Sep 11, 2020)

I'm wondering if the $200 difference between 13 Ultimate vs. Untimate Collectors is worth it. You get the full Quartet and Arkhis, and extra Maschine expansions. I mean, I'd be getting 17 expansions, but the meat of the difference for me is the Quartet. I guess I'll just have to wait to see what it sounds like when it's released.


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## proxima (Sep 11, 2020)

HeliaVox said:


> I'm wondering if the $200 difference between 13 Ultimate vs. Untimate Collectors is worth it. You get the full Quartet and Arkhis, and extra Maschine expansions. I mean, I'd be getting 17 expansions, but the meat of the difference for me is the Quartet. I guess I'll just have to wait to see what it sounds like when it's released.


Don't forget the full version of the Symphony Series.


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## Trace (Sep 30, 2020)

proxima said:


> Don't forget the full version of the Symphony Series.


This is true, but IMHO, the symphony series isn’t great. I really love a lot of NIs stuff, but I never use those libs. I do hope the quartet is good. The de,os sound good.


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## kevinh (Oct 1, 2020)

Any early thoughts/first impressions now that folks have been downloading this morning ? I’m on a storage space diet so wondering if to install or not


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## Markrs (Oct 1, 2020)

Trace said:


> This is true, but IMHO, the symphony series isn’t great. I really love a lot of NIs stuff, but I never use those libs. I do hope the quartet is good. The de,os sound good.


I have downloaded the Symphony series to give them a try. Seems a shame not to use them.


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## Brasart (Oct 1, 2020)

Installing now and will be using them this week-end and next week, can't wait!!


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## Leo (Oct 1, 2020)

cello is fantastic.. finally I can play some baroque music.


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## muziksculp (Oct 1, 2020)

I'm guessing that one can choose what they want to download and install of the Komplete 13 packaged instruments as needed via Native Access, especially if storage space is limited. Correct ?


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## Leo (Oct 1, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I'm guessing that one can choose what they want to download and install of the Komplete 13 packaged instruments as needed via Native Access, especially if storage space is limited. Correct ?


Correct.


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## kevinh (Oct 1, 2020)

Leo said:


> Correct.



That’s what I’m doing but I always forget that even though I have all download/install folders set to an external drive, Native Access still needs space on local MAC drive. So for example to install Mysteria, it needs 45GB free on main drive to even let me download even though I’m not installing or downloading there.


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## Leo (Oct 1, 2020)

don't know how it works on mac, but on pc I install instruments to the final hard drive and I don't have to do or delete anything extra.
But I don't like duplication, not even as an archive.


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## muziksculp (Oct 1, 2020)

I have Komplete Ultimate 12, I would have to purchase the Komplete Ultimate CE Upgrade to get the Kremona Quartet, which is $499. , Not sure what else would be useful for me in the CE package, I don't use Guitar Rig, so that's not something useful for me. I might pass on upgrading to Komplete 13 all together.


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## Sid Francis (Oct 1, 2020)

Muziksculp: for me and perhaps for you, Cremona, Noire and Arkhis could be interesting. I cancelled my upgrade order though, because I did not realise that 2 of those are only in the collectors edition and not in the regular update :-(


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## José Herring (Oct 1, 2020)

I honestly use so little of my Komplete 11 that I've never felt the need to upgrade. It might be worth it to me to upgrade all the way to Komplete 13 but I'm not feeling it right now. So many other good solo string options that won't cost me a $1000 upgrade. But, never say never


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## bosone (Oct 2, 2020)

Just installed it and played very few noted with the stradivari
the first impression was good (i'm an hobbyst, anyway), a lot of articulation and a beautiful sound.

...but K13U CE made my PC obsolete... i have 12 GB ram and an "old" i7 (bought in 2013), but just loading cello and violin in the "3 mic configuration" saturates my ram and the CPU hits very high with just 2 notes...

i am really looking forward to test them in "real life"


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## reutunes (Oct 2, 2020)

The walkthrough video has been released.
It's by me (again - sorry)...


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## Batrawi (Oct 2, 2020)

anyone else hears a very noticeable metallic/phasing sound between the dynamic layers? and wasn't there an update to address this issue if I remember correctly?


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## ism (Oct 2, 2020)

Batrawi said:


> anyone else hears a very noticeable metallic/phasing sound between the dynamic layers? and wasn't there an update to address this issue if I remember correctly?



I would expect that this is simply endemic to the phase alignment technique.


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## Batrawi (Oct 2, 2020)

ism said:


> I would expect that this is simply endemic to the phase alignment technique.


how ironic when the cure becomes its own disease! I would say it's rather a badly implemented phase-alignment then, cause we don't usually hear such phasing in other libraries using the same technique no? taking Embertone intimate strings as an example or CH solo strings...


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## samuel.beliveau (Oct 2, 2020)

I played with them and so far I like the sound (to my beginner ears) and how they articulate.

But I can't stand the vibrato at all. Is it just me?


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## doctoremmet (Oct 2, 2020)

Batrawi said:


> taking Embertone intimate strings as an example or CH solo strings...


This


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## Frederick (Oct 2, 2020)

I don't here the phasing issue in the walkthrough above. Is it also audible in it at some point?

I'm still very new to VI's and I haven't heard a real violin live in the last 30 years, so my ear might not be as good as I would like for this. I've been listening to CD's with high end gear for more than 20 years. Equipment that can easily spoil the fun of listening to recordings by exposing their weaknesses. Speaking in general, I think that sample libraries from the major players are soundwise doing very good in my listening room, eventhough they may not always sound completely realistic compared to a real instrument... Maybe I should consider myself lucky if I can live with slightly less realism indeed.

With the new Synchron Strings Pro I can hear issues from time to time depending on the used articulations in combination with certain mic settings.

I don't have any Embertone, Best Service or Chris Hein solo violins/violas/cellos to compare these with. I can only compare them with 8Dio Studio Quartet Series and the accompanying solo strings to all the orchestras I have, like for instance Spitfire Solo Strings combined with SSO. Sofar I'm very happy with both this Cremona Quartet as well as the released part of the Studio Quartet Series.


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## muziksculp (Oct 2, 2020)

Sid Francis said:


> Muziksculp: for me and perhaps for you, Cremona, Noire and Arkhis could be interesting. I cancelled my upgrade order though, because I did not realise that 2 of those are only in the collectors edition and not in the regular update :-(



Yes same decision here, I decided not to upgrade to Komplete 13 Ultimate, or 13 Ultimate CE. Mainly because I don't see anything I really need in the new version.

If the Cremona Quartet was included in Komplete 13 Ultimate, I might have been a bit more tempted to upgrade, I currently have Komplete 12 Ultimate. I already have a good collection of Solo String libraries.


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## ism (Oct 2, 2020)

Batrawi said:


> anyone else hears a very noticeable metallic/phasing sound between the dynamic layers? and wasn't there an update to address this issue if I remember correctly?



There's always a trade off.

Spitfire solo strings has virtually no phasing, and superb tone quality ... but the transitions are abrupt and bumpy.

Embertone ISS viola & bass has very smooth phasing ... but the phase alignment is so severe that this smoothness comes at a great cost to the tone quality.

The embertone ISS violin and cello only have a single dynamic layer with dynamics simulated via some kind of convolutions (which is horribly uncanny, especially at lower dynamics, to my ear)


So I wouldn't assume that the NI instrument is badly implemented, it's probably just that this particular "metallic" phase alignment artifact is endemic to the technic they've chosen.

Perhaps this kind go artifact can be improved in an update via some manor of technical jiggery pokery ... but I would just as easily believe that it will take a paradigm shift in sampling, and maybe a couple of further generation or two of computational power to significantly improve on what are endemic limitations of these currently existing techniques. 

If you think about the complexities of the physics of phase alignment ... the amazing thing to me is that it even works as well as it does.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 2, 2020)

Batrawi said:


> anyone else hears a very noticeable metallic/phasing sound between the dynamic layers? and wasn't there an update to address this issue if I remember correctly?



I do hear it, but its pretty subtle to me. I prefer this to the chorusing effect by a long way.



samuel.beliveau said:


> I can't stand the vibrato at all. Is it just me?



It's not immediately obvious, but there are half a dozen different vibrato options under the three dots in the dynamics / vibrato panel (this is automatable as well). I'm averse to fake vibrato but these options sounds a lot better than normal to me.

For sheer life, realism and passion, Bohemian is still by some way my favourite, but of course precise control is relatively constrained. I think the Stradivari violin in particular will be very useful for parts that need more micromanaging.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 2, 2020)

ism said:


> If you think about the complexities of the physics of phase alignment ... the amazing thing to me is that it even works as well as it does.



Good post, and strongly agree with this comment.


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## ism (Oct 2, 2020)

Guy Rowland said:


> I think the Stradivari violin in particular will be very useful for parts that need more micromanaging.



Yes. And in anything like a quartet where the musicality really hinges on the multiple voices reacting and coordinating ("the players watching each other's elbows") the Virharmonic approach really doesn't work at all, and the spitfire approach has limitations. Virharmonic is closer to a loop library. Uncompromising sound quality, no simulated dynamics or vibrato or phrasing .... but you can really only hope to craft a single performance from the existing phrasings and then fill everything else in around it. Which works best for soloists, and really only virtuosic soloists at that. 

Curious to see what kind of quartet this NI instruments might be capable of. The simulated vibrato and phase aligned dynamics do give you the "watching each other's elbows" that you loose with the Bohemian. But at the cost of sonority. 


Not sure I've ever heard an especially convincing string quartet mock up (though Sacconi is probably my favourite for all it's limitations). So no disrespect to NI if this isn't quite there yet either.


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## Marsen (Oct 2, 2020)

reutunes said:


> The walkthrough video has been released.
> It's by me (again - sorry)...



Why sorry?
You always do a great job on these walkthrough´s Reuben. 
Very helpful and "on the point".


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## MaxOctane (Oct 2, 2020)

Oh boy, another quartet library to get my hopes up of mocking up a half-reasonable Dvorak or Haydn. But if it’s like the others, I’ll wind up completely unable to match the naturalness of the demos, with odd sound issues, nasally tone, phasing, inconsistent positioning, the works.

I’d be on cloud 9 if somehow said that actually this library was finally The Real Deal....


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## Neutron Star (Oct 2, 2020)

bosone said:


> Just installed it and played very few noted with the stradivari
> the first impression was good (i'm an hobbyst, anyway), a lot of articulation and a beautiful sound.
> 
> ...but K13U CE made my PC obsolete... i have 12 GB ram and an "old" i7 (bought in 2013), but just loading cello and violin in the "3 mic configuration" saturates my ram and the CPU hits very high with just 2 notes...
> ...





bosone said:


> Just installed it and played very few noted with the stradivari
> the first impression was good (i'm an hobbyst, anyway), a lot of articulation and a beautiful sound.
> 
> ...but K13U CE made my PC obsolete... i have 12 GB ram and an "old" i7 (bought in 2013), but just loading cello and violin in the "3 mic configuration" saturates my ram and the CPU hits very high with just 2 notes...
> ...




What is task manager saying about ram usage as a percentage? And what buffer setting have you got?


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## bosone (Oct 2, 2020)

Neutron Star said:


> What is task manager saying about ram usage as a percentage? And what buffer setting have you got?


Still have to tweak on it... I had no time to play seriously! 😅


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## Frederick (Oct 2, 2020)

bosone said:


> Still have to tweak on it... I had no time to play seriously! 😅


There's also a CPU/RAM friendly patch with only a stereo mix.


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## bosone (Oct 2, 2020)

Frederick said:


> There's also a CPU/RAM friendly patch with only a stereo mix.


Yes that ones works well, with just 1.2 gb footprint! 😱

The instruments in K13 really make my pc near the obsolescence!


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## Frederick (Oct 2, 2020)

bosone said:


> Yes that ones works well, with just 1.2 gb footprint! 😱
> 
> The instruments in K13 really make my pc near the obsolescence!


Holy cow you're right! I'm so used to doing a purge after loading an instrument in Kontakt that I didn't notice the 1.2 gb.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 2, 2020)

I ended up upgrading the RAM in my laptop to 64GB's. If you used orchestral libraries, it is almost impossible with less - at least on Windows. At 16, I was choking. 32 GB may have been enough. 

I'm liking the sound of these so far. I even like the vibrato, though I set it to wide rather than passionate. The passionate was too much for me. There are about 5 options though. The virtuoso is very smooth to me and flows well. I have not tried them all together yet.


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## rottoy (Oct 2, 2020)

I want to like these instruments, but I've yet to enjoy a single instance of that simulated vibrato.


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## reutunes (Oct 4, 2020)

rottoy said:


> I want to like these instruments, but I've yet to enjoy a single instance of that simulated vibrato.



*😢*


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## rottoy (Oct 4, 2020)

reutunes said:


> *😢*


I know; if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. <3
That said, I'd love to hear any user examples of the vibrato being used in the context of a composition!
I want to be convinced!


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## Trace (Oct 4, 2020)

I believe that NI claims the vibrato is sampled and not simulated. I’m not sure how that could be...

I like the overall tone of these instruments. Legatos are pretty good. Short articulations are nice. The instruments blend well and the space they were sampled in is very sonorous. The virtuoso patch flows pretty well.

I really dislike the detache samples. The releases feel weird to me.


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## brentm (Oct 10, 2020)

Any thoughts on this library now that we've had a week with it? I have the violin as part of KU13 and am wondering about upgrading to the quartet.

I'm hesitant because I'm disappointed with the Strad violin. Tone is a little thin. Dynamics on the mod wheel are a puzzling choice. The vibrato is unnatural sounding. Attacks are fairly uniform and it's impossible to get a really biting attack I find. 

The Joshua Bell plays more intuitively and has a thicker tone. The attacks vary and can get gritty. You can quickly try out many tonal options. The Bell just sounds alive. The NI one not so much. I did want to like this library. Embertone is taking forever to come out with their next addition (cello or viola) and the Cremona would be an affordable set of solo strings.


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## chapbot (Oct 10, 2020)

I love the tone, I love the playability, I like dry libraries but I don't mind the reverb on these. I can't stomach the vibrato and have tried every setting. True, it is not as bad as other fake vibratos and is actually well implemented (I completely understand the theory behind why they did it this way) - it just still isn't quite there yet. Here's hoping that the developer will continue to tweak and refine it... I really think they could get it just right with a little more programming. Comparing it to libraries with real vibrato I think the problem is it's just a little too perfect. Maybe they could somehow implement a humanization knob.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 11, 2020)

I don't like the Passionate vibrato, but I don't mind some of the other vibrato options. Using midi learn, you can change what controls the dynamics and vibrato. I use the sliders on my keyboard and am very happy with the sound of the two violins. I adjust the vibrato a lot as I play so it sounds more natural. I like that it doesn't have the constant portamento of the JB violin. I can figure out how to turn it off. Though maybe it is how I play? Makes it sound constantly whiny. I don't get that with the Cremona Quartet. 

I think I like my Tina Guo cello a bit more than the Cremona one. I don't have an opinion yet on the viola.


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## brentm (Oct 11, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> I don't like the Passionate vibrato, but I don't mind some of the other vibrato options. Using midi learn, you can change what controls the dynamics and vibrato. I use the sliders on my keyboard and am very happy with the sound of the two violins. I adjust the vibrato a lot as I play so it sounds more natural. I like that it doesn't have the constant portamento of the JB violin. I can figure out how to turn it off. Though maybe it is how I play? Makes it sound constantly whiny. I don't get that with the Cremona Quartet.
> 
> I think I like my Tina Guo cello a bit more than the Cremona one. I don't have an opinion yet on the viola.



To get rid of the portamento turn off the legato. There's a switch.


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## brentm (Oct 11, 2020)

Well I bought it. And all I can say is I hope there's a fix coming. The tone of the JB violin is full and smooth. Very pleasant to listen to even if you just hold down the key and let the sample cycle through. All the NI ones have this screechy/phasey thing going on. And you can hear an audible break when the sample starts looping again. Not so with the JB. You can tell its looping if you listen to it alone but it's totally smooth. 

Reading the previous comments in this thread and the one just for the NI Strad violin it seems there's two paths to take in sampling these instruments and here they chose the one that sacrifices tone for ... dynamics? Not sure. But I don't think I'm the only one who values tone above all else.

So yeah, disappointed. I'm sure I'll find some use for them, perhaps with a lot of massaging, but I'm waiting for Embertone to come through or a fix for these.

The evolving vibrato is ok...sort of. The rest are pretty bad. And the reverb is a bit much.


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 11, 2020)

The thing is.....instrument is important. BUT for me it's 'more the witch and not the wand'. I am not saying this doesn't sound good. But where JBV has so much more warmth and dare say more 'humanness' - this is a bit clinical screechy and brittle. :( Owners please tell me I am absolutely WRONG!.


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## Zhao Shen (Oct 11, 2020)

From the walkthroughs, Cremona sounds like it came out with 2010 scripting technology. Komplete Ultimate Collector's Edition just doesn't seem like it provides very much value if you already have third party orchestral libraries.


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## brentm (Oct 11, 2020)

You think they'd have looked at the competition and seen what they needed to do. They took four multi-million dollar instruments and turned them into phasey, whiney, grating, unrealistic travesties. Unbelievable. Just hold down a note for more than two seconds in the virtuoso patch and feel/hear the cringe.


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## Aceituna (Oct 12, 2020)

I would like to be able to take advantage of the Cremona quartet.
Given the defects and deficiencies, for what types or genres of music is it usable?
How should it be used to make it profitable?


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## bosone (Oct 12, 2020)

If you are interested, i re-rendered an old track of mine using stradivari violin and cello (+the grandeur)



nothing virtuoso but somewhat "romantic" and sentimental"

i generally appreciated the sound, this is my most advanced solo string library so far. the other one was kirk hunter solo string but Cremona seems quite superior in terms of possibilities.

I went from K10U to K13CE mainly because it was just 100€ more (with respect to the discounted K13U) and I put a lot of hopes into the symphony series to get some "new" and more "modern" string libraries. I was struck with Garritan, Miroslav v.1 and Komplete library so I definitely wanted something new.

but, at a first glance, maybe it's not the best availble on the market.

let's see how i will use it...


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## Aceituna (Oct 12, 2020)

Nice work


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## Markrs (Oct 12, 2020)

bosone said:


> If you are interested, i re-rendered an old track of mine using stradivari violin and cello (+the grandeur)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds great, really enjoyed it.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 12, 2020)

brentm said:


> To get rid of the portamento turn off the legato. There's a switch.


Yes, but I want legato without portamento. So that doesn't really solve the problem.


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## bosone (Oct 12, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, but I want legato without portamento. So that doesn't really solve the problem.



YOu can choose bow legato or finger legato, portamento is just one of the options.
in the "virtuoso" patch, you can control the portamento with the velocity, check the corresponding option!


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## dzilizzi (Oct 12, 2020)

bosone said:


> YOu can choose bow legato or finger legato, portamento is just one of the options.
> in the "virtuoso" patch, you can control the portamento with the velocity, check the corresponding option!


Thanks. I'll play around with it.


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## Laptoprabbit (Nov 7, 2020)

There was an update recently that claimed to "improve impulse response for vibrato sound" - any thoughts?


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