# The Most Unepic Composition Ever Posted Here, LOL



## Rodney Money (Sep 21, 2015)

"Aria's Lullaby" for Flute (Berlin Flute 1) and Music Box (Wavesfactory) with East West Quantum Spaces:

A girl has not seen her father in a while. She is in her bedroom listening to the music box that her father built her. As soon as she starts to play the melody on her flute, her father hears her, walks into her bedroom, and then sees her. The girl stops playing, but her father motions her to please continue. The girl finishes the lullaby, and then they embrace as she welcomes him home.

PDF Sheet Music: https://app.box.com/s/seujg6n4pquayx3j3b3jdx72u3ojnupc
Wav File EQ Edit (tried to get ride of a low rumble in the music box) https://app.box.com/s/sei7zsirxxaw4dkh9rrmwxdoqxnnt0gp


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## KEnK (Sep 21, 2015)

Lovely piece Rodney.
Well written.

Not sure if you're looking for constructive advise or not-
Personally I think it would be better if the flute had the same immediate ambiance as the music box.
The reverb entry sort of takes me out of the piece.

k


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 21, 2015)

I hated the Taiko ensemble, the chugging string ostinati and the blaring low brass crescendos, but other than that, it's a lovely piece!

I would highpass the music box though - up to 120 Hz or something. There's a thunderous low rumble coming from it. Personally, I think I would prefer softer dynamics for the flute parts.


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## rgarber (Sep 21, 2015)

I like it as it is. Here's why and in lieu of the previous comments which I don't necessarily agree or disagree with, I think I would need to here examples of each. My point is a music box, well I can't imagine one being reverb-ed so it would be the flute part to needing compensating and I like the sound of the flute as its portrayed. Might even want to back off the ambiance ever so slightly but for the most part as it is now, that's how I would want to hear the flute. Just my opinion. Regarding the scene construction, pretty cool. Thanks for sharing. - Rich


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## Rodney Money (Sep 22, 2015)

KEnK said:


> Lovely piece Rodney.
> Well written.
> 
> Not sure if you're looking for constructive advise or not-
> ...


Yeah man, I am always looking for advice especially with rendering. This was possibly the simplest piece I ever wrote concerning composition. There is almost nothing to it intellectually wise. The reverb was my personal internal struggle. I heard the samples of music boxes used in movies with reverb and my head was like, "No, it's just a girl's room and it needs to sound intimate and small." But then I struggled with the flute, because I could not stand the dry sound. So I decided, "Well maybe I will just have the flute in the "regular" reverb setting and say the father was hearing it from far off." I don't know though, so the music box is dry, the flute has ample ambience but then, when the music box comes in, I don't know if people can tell, but it is now in the same room as the flute. In a perfect world I would like the music box "in the girl's room," when she starts playing the flute it's from afar upstairs, then as the father goes into her room the ambience becomes more smaller and absorbed. Thanks for the comments and compliments!


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## Rodney Money (Sep 22, 2015)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I hated the Taiko ensemble, the chugging string ostinati and the blaring low brass crescendos, but other than that, it's a lovely piece!
> 
> I would highpass the music box though - up to 120 Hz or something. There's a thunderous low rumble coming from it. Personally, I think I would prefer softer dynamics for the flute parts.


Yeah, thunderous music boxes are never good. They are creepy enough, LOL. Thank you for the technical tips! I could see why you would want softer flute dynamics since it is a lullaby normally to put a baby to asleep. I guess in this one I was almost trying to show that she was rejoicing in the higher 8vas because she was playing for her Daddy. Thank you again, maybe I need to just make a softer version for night time? By the way, I loved your comment. Made my day!!!


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## KEnK (Sep 22, 2015)

Rodney Money said:


> I don't know if people can tell, but it is now in the same room as the flute.


It doesn't sound like the same ambiance to me, that's why I mentioned it.

I've noticed occasionally people describe their compositions in visual terms.
Even if this is exactly what you think about when you hear the piece,
it's not necessarily what other people will get out of it.
When I listen to soundtracks of films I'm very familiar w/, I never think about the film.
I just hear the music in it's abstract stand-alone nature.
So to me, the scene you describe is not a part of how I experience the piece.

I say that because I think you're taking your visual scenario to literally.
Just listen to it as a piece for flute and music box and put them in the same environment
as they would be if it was performed.

I'm hearing your music as Music, I'm not thinking about the story you've outlined.
I think the aspect of having the flute change to a different room is distracting
and not in the best interest of such a nice piece.

k


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## jacobthestupendous (Sep 22, 2015)

KEnK said:


> It doesn't sound like the same ambiance to me, that's why I mentioned it.
> 
> I've noticed occasionally people describe their compositions in visual terms.
> Even if this is exactly what you think about when you hear the piece,
> ...



I agree with KEnK. To me, the sound of the music doesn't necessarily need to reflect the reality of the room the characters in your scene are in. In a movie, or in a stage show or in any actual performance, the ambience would be more beautiful than it would be in an actual bedroom. Don't let the unimportant aspects of the nice story (like the physics of sound reflection and absorption of carpeted square bedrooms) do harm to the sound of your music that is telling the story.

It's a lovely piece though. I'd probably use fewer super-fast flute gracenotes, but that's purely personal preference.


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## Rodney Money (Sep 22, 2015)

KEnK said:


> It doesn't sound like the same ambiance to me, that's why I mentioned it.
> 
> I've noticed occasionally people describe their compositions in visual terms.
> Even if this is exactly what you think about when you hear the piece,
> ...


Thank you again for the comment, my friend. You are right, when the music box first comes in at the beginning and when the flute comes in they are not in the same "room." They are not in the same ambience until the music box comes back in then I added reverb to it. And I also agree with you on hearing music. I didn't tell y'all this, but this piece is actually part of a ballet in which it has a clear story. That's the only reason I mentioned it. Thanks again!


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## Rodney Money (Sep 22, 2015)

jacobthestupendous said:


> I agree with KEnK. To me, the sound of the music doesn't necessarily need to reflect the reality of the room the characters in your scene are in. In a movie, or in a stage show or in any actual performance, the ambience would be more beautiful than it would be in an actual bedroom. Don't let the unimportant aspects of the nice story (like the physics of sound reflection and absorption of carpeted square bedrooms) do harm to the sound of your music that is telling the story.
> 
> It's a lovely piece though. I'd probably use fewer super-fast flute gracenotes, but that's purely personal preference.


Thanks for the comment, my friend! It means a lot. Yes, I blame those darn grace-notes on the concert world and their darn solo cadenzas. Crazy soloist always want to show off their skills... and now it has poison my writing. I love your sentence by the way of "... the ambience would be more beautiful than it would be in an actual bedroom."


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## Rodney Money (Oct 1, 2015)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I hated the Taiko ensemble, the chugging string ostinati and the blaring low brass crescendos, but other than that, it's a lovely piece!
> 
> I would highpass the music box though - up to 120 Hz or something. There's a thunderous low rumble coming from it. Personally, I think I would prefer softer dynamics for the flute parts.


Hey Jimmy, I'm a complete idiot when it comes to these things but your wonderful and helpful comment has been on my mind all week. I am working in Cubase and did not even notice the low rumble until you said something. I am still completely lost when it comes to eq. People say it's not rocket science but to me, who is used to only writing in Finale, it is. Here's what I see when I look at the eq in Cubase:

Boxes that say 1 LO, HC 0DB, LC 100 HZ; 2 LMF, HC 0DB, LC 800 HZ; 3 HMF, HC 0DB, LC 2000 HZ, and 4 HC 0DB, HI 12000 HZ.

Will you help a brother out again, my friend?


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 1, 2015)

The low rumble issue is easily solved in this case. For some reason, there are some quite prominent low rumble artifacts in the samples of the music box. We can filter this low noise out completely without affecting the timbre of the music box at all, as the musically relevant information is way higher in the sonic spectrum.

In the Cubase EQ, there is a box that says "PRE". Here you can apply a low cut filter that will attenuate frequencies below the specified threshold and leave everything above it untouched.







Hover with the mouse over the "LC" thingy. On the left side, an on/off switch will become visible. Click that to make the low cut filter active. On the right side, a little downward arrow apppears that opens a drop-down menu which lets you choose the filter slope.

I think here you can safely pick the 24 dB/Oct filter, which clamps down more aggressively than the 12 dB/Oct, because the music box doesn't make any musically relevant sound down there anyway. Whatever is droning around there is just noise and can safely be filtered out without changing the sound of the box.

If you hold the left mouse button and drag the cursor along the LC bar, you can move the filter threshold around in real-time. Let the soloed music box track play, slowly drag the green bar to the right and listen for the point where the rumble disappears. It's gonna be somewhere around 120 - 135 Hz. You can also double-click into the bar and enter the value.

I hope this wasn't more convoluted and confusing than helpful ...


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## Rodney Money (Oct 1, 2015)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The low rumble issue is easily solved in this case. For some reason, there are some quite prominent low rumble artifacts in the samples of the music box. We can filter this low noise out completely without affecting the timbre of the music box at all, as the musically relevant information is way higher in the sonic spectrum.
> 
> In the Cubase EQ, there is a box that says "PRE". Here you can apply a low cut filter that will attenuate frequencies below the specified threshold and leave everything above it untouched.
> 
> ...


I will simply say this, "You are the Man!" Thank you for taking the time to do this. You win the forum for me today.


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## Rodney Money (Oct 1, 2015)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> The low rumble issue is easily solved in this case. For some reason, there are some quite prominent low rumble artifacts in the samples of the music box. We can filter this low noise out completely without affecting the timbre of the music box at all, as the musically relevant information is way higher in the sonic spectrum.
> 
> In the Cubase EQ, there is a box that says "PRE". Here you can apply a low cut filter that will attenuate frequencies below the specified threshold and leave everything above it untouched.
> 
> ...


Thank you again. I took your advice and worked on it today. I hope I made at least a little difference: https://app.box.com/s/sei7zsirxxaw4dkh9rrmwxdoqxnnt0gp


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## OleJoergensen (Oct 2, 2015)

I like the idea with the Music box. Its a nice tune, the flute sounds great.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 2, 2015)

Rodney Money said:


> Thank you again. I took your advice and worked on it today. I hope I made at least a little difference: https://app.box.com/s/sei7zsirxxaw4dkh9rrmwxdoqxnnt0gp



It worked - I would say the rumble has disappeared completely. But you know what's funny? Now that the rumbling is gone, there's suddenly a hissing. 

Did you do any processing to the track besides the low cut? There is a constant hiss underneath the music box, a rustle, almost like from a faulty circuitry or an old recording or something. I don't recall it being as clearly audible in the original version. It sounds as if you boosted the area around 4,5 kHz or something - a LOT. Is that on purpose? Or perhaps an accidently engaged EQ band somewhere? 

I actually find it charming in a way. It sounds as if one could hear the mechanism of the old, tattered music box. It creates a certain nostalgic vibe - but it's a bit much. There's the moment in the piece around 02:20, when the Gmaj fades, and the hiss still lingers for several seconds after the music box has stopped playing. Then it subsides before the solo flute comes in, and that kind of sounds as if you pasted two separate recordings together into one audio file and they have very different amouts of background noise. It creates the impression that the sections actually don't belong together - at least to my ears it creates a disconnect. I think it would be better to either remove the hiss altogether, or to make it go away as soon as the music box stops playing so that it doesn't sound like silence on a hissy vinyl.

Please don't get the impression that I'm nitpicking at your piece (I'm really in love with the music), I really don't mean to, it's just some hissing in there I hear that seems to really strike me and perhaps I'm just too anal about background noise and things like that


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## Rodney Money (Oct 2, 2015)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It worked - I would say the rumble has disappeared completely. But you know what's funny? Now that the rumbling is gone, there's suddenly a hissing.
> 
> Did you do any processing to the track besides the low cut? There is a constant hiss underneath the music box, a rustle, almost like from a faulty circuitry or an old recording or something. I don't recall it being as clearly audible in the original version. It sounds as if you boosted the area around 4,5 kHz or something - a LOT. Is that on purpose? Or perhaps an accidently engaged EQ band somewhere?
> 
> ...


Oh, please feel free to nitpick, you are helping me out a lot, my friend. I don't know anything about this stuff. All I know is, "Hit record and play it in." I simply did the low cut. Take a listen to this: https://app.box.com/s/bqowcc5kq9cp0zjh6ilogoeq29inxll8 This is without the mechanical drone which I believe is either the music box "mechanism" or the paper going through it? Thank you again. This is the most simple piece I ever wrote but this is the "perfect" piece to help me concerning rendering. Please tell me if you still hear hissing and what I can do to remove it (maybe high pass?)


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 2, 2015)

It's hiss-free again


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## Jaap (Oct 2, 2015)

Lovely piece Rodney and what a nice sound that music box has.


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## Rodney Money (Oct 2, 2015)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> It's hiss-free again


So you think it was just the "mechanical device" then? What would you think if it was softer in the mix or in just some parts and not the entire time? How is the flute now working for you? Is it still too loud?


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## Rodney Money (Oct 2, 2015)

Jaap said:


> Lovely piece Rodney and what a nice sound that music box has.


Thank you Jaap for both listening and commenting! I believe that was the first time I ever wrote in C Major, lol, but I needed to because most of the music boxes that you can actually compose for are in that key (the type that you punch holes in the paper.) The music box was from Wavesfactory and it was free.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 2, 2015)

Rodney Money said:


> So you think it was just the "mechanical device" then? What would you think if it was softer in the mix or in just some parts and not the entire time? How is the flute now working for you? Is it still too loud?



Aah, now I get it. I downloaded the music box. It has this mechanical drone mapped as a sample. Yes, that's where the hiss came from. I thought it might be some EQ thing because you can get a similar sound when you boost the EQ of the instrument at 4,6 kHz by 20 dB or more.

As previously pointed out, I think the droning sound does add this sweet, nostalgic flair to the music. But perhaps it can be lower in the mix. Maybe just drop the volume of that particular sample inside Kontakt, or simply use a second instance of the instrument just for the drone, and back it off a little?

I wouldn't mind the flute being a tad softer. But that's just me, it's fine as it is.


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## Michael K. Bain (Oct 2, 2015)

I think it's a very pretty piece. I have a question and a comment.

Question: who winds the music box? 

I agree that the ambiance of the flute doesn't sound right for the story. It doesn't sound like the music box and flute are in the same room. I think it requires a much more personal and intimate space.


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## Rodney Money (Oct 2, 2015)

Michael K. Bain said:


> I think it's a very pretty piece. I have a question and a comment.
> 
> Question: who winds the music box?
> 
> I agree that the ambiance of the flute doesn't sound right for the story. It doesn't sound like the music box and flute are in the same room. I think it requires a much more personal and intimate space.


Hey Michael, thank you for commenting on my little piece! The girl winds up the music box first, and the dad second. The reverb has been my biggest struggle with this piece. When the music box comes back in, the second time it winds up, they are finally in the same space (I used So. Cal Hall from East West's Spaces,) but here is my biggest issue: the music box by itself, solo, did not sound intimate with reverb, and the flute did not "come alive" without the reverb. If you have any suggestions, please throw them out there to me. I am going to go experiment some more.


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## cAudio (Oct 2, 2015)

Very nice piece, Rodney! Maybe you could fade in the reverb on the music box track right before the flute enters, as you where moving the music box into the same room?
It don't know, just a suggestion. Thanks for sharing.


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## Rodney Money (Oct 2, 2015)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Aah, now I get it. I downloaded the music box. It has this mechanical drone mapped as a sample. Yes, that's where the hiss came from. I thought it might be some EQ thing because you can get a similar sound when you boost the EQ of the instrument at 4,6 kHz by 20 dB or more.
> 
> As previously pointed out, I think the droning sound does add this sweet, nostalgic flair to the music. But perhaps it can be lower in the mix. Maybe just drop the volume of that particular sample inside Kontakt, or simply use a second instance of the instrument just for the drone, and back it off a little?
> 
> I wouldn't mind the flute being a tad softer. But that's just me, it's fine as it is.


Hey Jimmy, this has been fun today trying your suggestions. Thank you so much for the help. Just for fun, I tried to incorporate all of your suggestions: small same room, cut the noise, softer flute and here's what I came up with. This version is probably too extreme in your suggestions but I am wondering y'alls thoughts if it's now too much... or better words would be: too "less" now https://app.box.com/s/yfhkn5vgsloulcqf44flpe68g9yn1d7z


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## Michael K. Bain (Oct 3, 2015)

Rodney Money said:


> Hey Jimmy, this has been fun today trying your suggestions. Thank you so much for the help. Just for fun, I tried to incorporate all of your suggestions: small same room, cut the noise, softer flute and here's what I came up with. This version is probably too extreme in your suggestions but I am wondering y'alls thoughts if it's now too much... or better words would be: too "less" now https://app.box.com/s/yfhkn5vgsloulcqf44flpe68g9yn1d7z


Now to me, that mix is much better. Sounds like the same room to me. In my mind, I picture the flute up front, close to the mic, with the flute in the background. They really do sound like they're sharing the same space. Nice job.


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## Rodney Money (Oct 3, 2015)

Michael K. Bain said:


> Now to me, that mix is much better. Sounds like the same room to me. In my mind, I picture the flute up front, close to the mic, with the flute in the background. They really do sound like they're sharing the same space. Nice job.


Alrighty, we are getting somewhere then! Did you mean the music box in the background, and what do you now think of the absence of the crank and mechanical sound of the music box?


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## Rodney Money (Oct 3, 2015)

cAudio said:


> Very nice piece, Rodney! Maybe you could fade in the reverb on the music box track right before the flute enters, as you where moving the music box into the same room?
> It don't know, just a suggestion. Thanks for sharing.


Thank you for the reply and suggestions. On the first post, that's what I originally tried to do but I guessed I failed at that goal.


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## Michael K. Bain (Oct 3, 2015)

Rodney Money said:


> Alrighty, we are getting somewhere then! Did you mean the music box in the background, and what do you now think of the absence of the crank and mechanical sound of the music box?


I actually meant the music box up front, with flute in the background. That's how it sounds to me. That may seem backwards to some people, but I like it that way, because I think of the music box as the star of this show. She's playing accompaniment to it, not the other way around. 
In reference to the music box cranking, I liked it at the beginning of the song, and I think you should put it back in. The reason I didn't like the second one is because I thought she was the one cranking it, which made no sense to me - how could she do that with both hands playing the flute? I think that one should be left out.
I really think you hit it out of the park on the mix. It sounds very live to me - so live to me that I can't help but picture it in my mind. Some folks might tell you to reverse it so that the flute sounds like it's in the foreground, but I like it just the way it is.


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## mpalenik (Oct 3, 2015)

Very nice. And thanks for posting the sheet music. Before I listened to the audio, I played the music box and flute parts (an octave up when it was in the same range as the music box) on the piano. When I got to the flute solo, I thought that I must have been doing something wrong with all the grace notes just before the music box comes back in because it sounded kind of awkward. I listened to your recording and found that I had done it exactly right and that it sounds pretty much the same on the flute as on the piano. My only suggestion would be to maybe do something differently with some of the longer stretches of grace notes. I'm not sure exactly what. Maybe a live flute player would make it sound better, but live piano playing doesn't (different instrument I know, but still). Other than that, once again, very nice.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 3, 2015)

Rodney Money said:


> Hey Jimmy, this has been fun today trying your suggestions. Thank you so much for the help. Just for fun, I tried to incorporate all of your suggestions: small same room, cut the noise, softer flute and here's what I came up with. This version is probably too extreme in your suggestions but I am wondering y'alls thoughts if it's now too much... or better words would be: too "less" now https://app.box.com/s/yfhkn5vgsloulcqf44flpe68g9yn1d7z



I think it works. The flute sounds closer and more intimate now which I personally feel works better for the piece. I also agree with Michael K. Bain in that it makes sense that the music box is in the foreground. It's something one would listen to having it right in front of them - placed on a desk or so. The flute, on the other hand, can make itself heard in the room, even from further back.

I also agree that the wind-up in the beginning should be there, it just sets the mood so nicely. I would also render a version with the "mechanism" added in, just for the mood factor, but 6 dB lower, perhaps even more.


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## Rodney Money (Oct 6, 2015)

mpalenik said:


> Very nice. And thanks for posting the sheet music. Before I listened to the audio, I played the music box and flute parts (an octave up when it was in the same range as the music box) on the piano. When I got to the flute solo, I thought that I must have been doing something wrong with all the grace notes just before the music box comes back in because it sounded kind of awkward. I listened to your recording and found that I had done it exactly right and that it sounds pretty much the same on the flute as on the piano. My only suggestion would be to maybe do something differently with some of the longer stretches of grace notes. I'm not sure exactly what. Maybe a live flute player would make it sound better, but live piano playing doesn't (different instrument I know, but still). Other than that, once again, very nice.


My pleasure for posting the sheet music. Thank you for taking the time to play the simple, little piece. I have professional friends in all instruments and my "flute consultent" said, "This is very playable on the flute. Upper all-district 11th or 12th grade high school would be OK with it."


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## Rodney Money (Oct 6, 2015)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I think it works. The flute sounds closer and more intimate now which I personally feel works better for the piece. I also agree with Michael K. Bain in that it makes sense that the music box is in the foreground. It's something one would listen to having it right in front of them - placed on a desk or so. The flute, on the other hand, can make itself heard in the room, even from further back.
> 
> I also agree that the wind-up in the beginning should be there, it just sets the mood so nicely. I would also render a version with the "mechanism" added in, just for the mood factor, but 6 dB lower, perhaps even more.


Thank you, once again for all of your help!


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## mpalenik (Oct 6, 2015)

Rodney Money said:


> My pleasure for posting the sheet music. Thank you for taking the time to play the simple, little piece. I have professional friends in all instruments and my "flute consultent" said, "This is very playable on the flute. Upper all-district 11th or 12th grade high school would be OK with it."


I guess my point wasn't so much that I thought it would be particularly difficult to play, as it was that to me, it sounded awkward when I played it on the piano. Initially, since I was sight reading and it was a particularly long stretch of grace notes, I assumed that I had just kind of fudged it, because I was already on to the part where the music box comes back. However, going back to it and listening to the audio, I saw that was correct. There's not anything particularly wrong with those notes (although they are slightly awkward to play as well, on the piano, at least, because they're not the notes that my fingers were expecting, not that that matters), just it sounds to me like there should be fewer grace notes, or a different pattern, or something. Down to personal preference, I guess.


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## Alatar (Oct 8, 2015)

Nice piece. But I think, the flute is playing a bit too much forte. More piano or maybe even pianissimo would give a nicer sound I think.


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## Rodney Money (Oct 8, 2015)

Alatar said:


> Nice piece. But I think, the flute is playing a bit too much forte. More piano or maybe even pianissimo would give a nicer sound I think.


The only issue with the flute being played soft is that it doesn't follow the story that was commissioned. The flute player is rejoicing that her father has return, and flute player would also have a difficult time playing the high C quietly.


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