# What about Audio Imperia and Jasper Blunk's new choir library?



## Iosonopie (Aug 18, 2021)

I have just seen the ig post. 
Is there already a thread about this?
What do you think?
What do you expect from this partnership?


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## Casiquire (Aug 18, 2021)

Intriguing! I've always thought a more fully-fleshed choir library from Blunk would be amazing.


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## Niv Schrieber (Aug 18, 2021)

Audio imperia and jasper are joining forces to produce a choir library? sign me in right now!


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## zedmaster (Aug 18, 2021)

intriguing! :D


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## Trash Panda (Aug 18, 2021)

Shits. My wallet is already crying.


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## Peter Satera (Aug 18, 2021)

Two awesome developers, what's not to love!?


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## Trash Panda (Aug 18, 2021)

Peter Satera said:


> Two awesome developers, what's not to love!?


The impact it will have on my disposable income when it releases...


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## chrisav (Aug 18, 2021)

Oh God. 
And here I thought TSS would be the only upcoming library for me to drool over for at least a solid few months now


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## JDK88 (Aug 18, 2021)

I hope it's a Jasper-style choir library with a word-builder.


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 18, 2021)

I’m IN and want it NOW 👍🏻🤣


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## Casiquire (Aug 18, 2021)

JDK88 said:


> I hope it's a Jasper-style choir library with a word-builder.


A full word builder doesn't seem like his aesthetic, considering going full-word-builder necessarily means sacrificing quality somewhere. I'm just hoping they're expressive to the max, not that Wo/Frey is lacking there for my needs


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## Mr Sakitumi (Aug 18, 2021)

This collaboration is exciting!


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## Getsumen (Aug 18, 2021)

Theory crafting time.

Is THIS:




(And just the various other recent demos)
an early example of the choir?


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## FireGS (Aug 18, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Theory crafting time.
> 
> Is THIS:
> 
> ...



Well, the second one specifically doesn't sound like any of the PS choir libs so far.


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## Getsumen (Aug 18, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Well, the second one specifically doesn't sound like any of the PS choir libs so far.


It's probably not the choir I feel just because of how small it sounds which doesn't really evoke the feeling of a "Symphonic" choir (and also it's probably gonna lean on the epic side since AI)

If it is that'll be neat to have a more all-rounded choir on the market, if not it makes me wonder if this is just a private patch or a possible different later product


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## Futchibon (Aug 27, 2021)

So the devloper of the best solo soprano legato I own (Jaegar Hangar 4) and the creator of Oceania, which is one of the most playable and inspiring libraries I've used, are collaborating on a choir?!?!?!?


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## jcrosby (Aug 27, 2021)

Shut the front door!!!!


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## Trash Panda (Aug 27, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> So the devloper of the best solo soprano legato I own (Jaegar Hangar 4) and the creator of Oceania, which is one of the most playable and inspiring libraries I've used, are collaborating on a choir?!?!?!?


The Nucleus choir and SOLO Sopranos are no slouches either. I’ll be really surprised if this collaboration is anything short of amazing.


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## dunamisstudio (Aug 27, 2021)




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## dunamisstudio (Aug 27, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> So the devloper of the best solo soprano legato I own (Jaegar Hangar 4) and the creator of Oceania, which is one of the most playable and inspiring libraries I've used, are collaborating on a choir?!?!?!?


Yep, I'll skip what I was looking at over the summer and now wait for this and Hangar 4


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Aug 27, 2021)

Super excited for this. I have a couple choir libs, but nothing very comprehensive.


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## Daniel James (Aug 27, 2021)

Now THIS is a collab I am excited for!

-DJ


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## Trash Panda (Aug 28, 2021)

Alpha version of slow syllables on their IG story.









Watch this story by A U D I O I M P E R I A on Instagram before it disappears.


3,720 Followers, 135 Following, 167 Posts




instagram.com


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## Getsumen (Aug 28, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Alpha version of slow syllables on their IG story.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same "s" thing as with Oceania and it seems just as playable. An Oceania that can do quiet slow melodic?! Lets go!

Longer audio demo here:

as well


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## CT (Aug 28, 2021)

That sounds remarkable....


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## jbuhler (Aug 28, 2021)

Nice sound. I’ll be interested to hear it with more movement in the voices.


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## Futchibon (Aug 29, 2021)

I think I just had an eargasm.


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## KEM (Aug 30, 2021)

Sounds amazing!!


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 31, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Same "s" thing as with Oceania and it seems just as playable. An Oceania that can do quiet slow melodic?! Lets go!
> 
> Longer audio demo here:
> 
> as well



Less of the sailing on the Oceania and more... relaxing in a gondola through a Venetian canal at night.


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## audioimperia (Aug 31, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Less of the sailing on the Oceania and more... relaxing in a gondola through a Venetian canal at night.


What if it can do both?


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## Drundfunk (Aug 31, 2021)

audioimperia said:


> What if it can do both?


Can it do hyper-epic tho?


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## audioimperia (Aug 31, 2021)

Drundfunk said:


> Can it do hyper-epic tho?


Hyper super duper epic, yup 🤪


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## tc9000 (Aug 31, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Longer audio demo here:
> 
> as well



Wow. Please take my money? Actually - no - wait - please take your time, when it's all good and ready, I will be here


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## José Herring (Aug 31, 2021)

Niv Schrieber said:


> Audio imperia and jasper are joining forces to produce a choir library? sign me in right now!


And this my friends is how sample library legends get made.


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## dcoscina (Aug 31, 2021)

Very excited about this one.


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 31, 2021)

Stoooooooked 🤟🏻


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## Trevor Meier (Aug 31, 2021)

Wow... @audioimperia that sounds exceptional. Excited for this!


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## Futchibon (Aug 31, 2021)

@audioimperia any idea which month it will drop yet, and ballpark price? Have to start budgeting with Jasper's string library coming out soon as well, and I want (need?) both!


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## LamaRose (Aug 31, 2021)

Separate sections -SATB? A bit OT, but it would cool if A.I. would create an expansion pack for SOLO with dedicated alto, tenor, bass solists.


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## audioimperia (Aug 31, 2021)

LamaRose said:


> Separate sections -SATB? A bit OT, but it would cool if A.I. would create an expansion pack for SOLO with dedicated alto, tenor, bass solists.


That is a great question. We did consider SATB for Chorus, but that would have driven the size of the library through the roof given the content so we decided against it. That being said, additional SATB soloists for Solo is something we're considering.



Futchibon said:


> @audioimperia any idea which month it will drop yet, and ballpark price? Have to start budgeting with Jasper's string library coming out soon as well, and I want (need?) both!


We'll keep you posted on this! It's not fully set in stone. This is a pretty big endeavour as you can imagine, but as soon as we can we'll share more info on that.


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## Drundfunk (Sep 1, 2021)

audioimperia said:


> Hyper super duper epic, yup 🤪


Hmmmm...It's not for me then......


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## Getsumen (Sep 13, 2021)




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## EpicMusicGuy (Sep 13, 2021)

Drundfunk said:


> Can it do hyper-epic tho?





audioimperia said:


> Hyper super duper epic, yup 🤪





Drundfunk said:


> Hmmmm...It's not for me then......


Yeah not for me either


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## EpicMusicGuy (Sep 13, 2021)

Really had a good experience with Performance Samples/Jasper btw.
Purchased Fluid Shorts, had some problems installing it, so asked about it on the Alex Moukala discord server. Got no responses.
Figured out how to install it though.
Next day Jasper had added me and very kindly offered assistance.
You know it's a good company when customer service comes to you and not the other way around 

Really interrested in Audio Imperia's products aswell. Thinking about picking up Nucleus Lite.
Are we going to get a Lite version of this choir @audioimperia?


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## Soundbed (Sep 13, 2021)

I like the idea of patches “by use” like slow syllables and energetic syllables. I think both AI and PS (not purist) fans will go for that approach.


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## Futchibon (Sep 13, 2021)

EpicMusicGuy said:


> Really had a good experience with Performance Samples/Jasper btw.
> Purchased Fluid Shorts, had some problems installing it, so asked about it on the Alex Moukala discord server. Got no responses.
> Figured out how to install it though.
> Next day Jasper had added me and very kindly offered assistance.
> You know it's a good company when customer service comes to you and not the other way around


Good to know any criticisms of Performance Samples' customer service has been.....wait for it.....

positively de-blunked!


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## Jrettetsoh (Sep 13, 2021)

Amazing good!


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## Drundfunk (Sep 15, 2021)

EpicMusicGuy said:


> Yeah not for me either


Reading your username I totally understand


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## Argy Ottas (Oct 29, 2021)

oh well...


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## tc9000 (Oct 29, 2021)

please  take  my  money  already


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## Trash Panda (Oct 29, 2021)




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## Sarah Mancuso (Oct 29, 2021)

I absolutely don't need another choir library, but I do need this.


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## Kent (Oct 29, 2021)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I absolutely don't need another choir library, but I do need this.


Ah yes, the long-awaited sequel to Meat Loaf's 1993 hit single, 'I'd Do Anything for Love (But I Won't Do That)'


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## Casiquire (Oct 29, 2021)

Do we have any gauge of how far along this is?


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## Trash Panda (Oct 29, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Do we have any gauge of how far along this is?


The Instagram post said they’re in the alpha stage. Probably still a few months out.


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## audioimperia (Oct 29, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> The Instagram post said they’re in the alpha stage. Probably still a few months out.


Not that long, no  Should have a more concrete release date range soon but it's not months and months away.


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## Evans (Oct 29, 2021)

audioimperia said:


> Not that long, no  Should have a more concrete release date range soon but it's not months and months away.


I'm going to Sherlock the shit out of this.

"Months" = 2 (or more) months.

"Months and months" = 2 (or more) months + 2 (or more) months. So, four (at the minimum).

"*Not *months and months" = Hopefully, less than four months?

Conclusion: Math was never my strength.

EDIT: I'll gladly buy this today on reputation alone. And not having a lot of choir options.


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## DSorah (Oct 29, 2021)

audioimperia said:


> Not that long, no  Should have a more concrete release date range soon but it's not months and months away.


You have a slew of wannabe beta testers here!  Seriously though, this sounds fantastic! Thanks for bringing this tool to us and for the inspiration it will spark!


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## CT (Oct 29, 2021)

Hoping this means there's going to be a second fake choir I like!


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## Casiquire (Oct 29, 2021)

Heck I'll pay YOU to beta test it lol


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## Laurin Lenschow (Oct 29, 2021)

@audioimperia Can you share details on the included legatos? If it has Mmh legato I'm going to buy this as soon as you let me


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## audioimperia (Oct 29, 2021)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> @audioimperia Can you share details on the included legatos? If it has Mmh legato I'm going to buy this as soon as you let me


Does have a Mmh Legato, yes


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## Trash Panda (Oct 29, 2021)

audioimperia said:


> Not that long, no  Should have a more concrete release date range soon but it's not months and months away.


Looking forward to it! Just make sure to give an intro price period that includes the end/beginning of the month when it does come out for those of us who will be recovering from the Black Friday/holiday spending spree, please.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Oct 29, 2021)

audioimperia said:


> Does have a Mmh Legato, yes


That's awesome, thanks for your reply! Now I'm even more excited for this


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## Peros (Oct 29, 2021)

it sound fantastic…i know might be too early but any info on the price range??
350 - 500 usd or more??


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## Evans (Nov 8, 2021)

I want more information on this. Someone halp.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 17, 2021)

@audioimperia Could you share some information about the (intro) price and time of release? I really need to figure out how to budget for black friday.


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## audioimperia (Nov 17, 2021)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> @audioimperia Could you share some information about the (intro) price and time of release? I really need to figure out how to budget for black friday.


Still aiming to release before the end of the year. Pricing has yet to be decided, will be similar to other full choirs libraries that are out there.


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 17, 2021)

audioimperia said:


> Still aiming to release before the end of the year. Pricing has yet to be decided, will be similar to other full choirs libraries that are out there.


Damn, that's what I was scared of 
...thanks for the quick reply though!
Just to annoy you a little bit more: Are we talking "Dominus Pro full choir" or "Requiem Professional full choir"?


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## Getsumen (Nov 17, 2021)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> Damn, that's what I was scared of
> ...thanks for the quick reply though!
> Just to annoy you a little bit more: Are we talking "Dominus Pro full choir" or "Requiem Professional full choir"?


Considering the usual botiqueness of PS I'm gonna assume it's gonna lean towards the Dominus Pro side.

Although considering that this lib (Does it have a name yet!?) seems to have both quiet and energetic / loud patches, perhaps it can achieve the fabled "all in one" choir.


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## audioimperia (Nov 17, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Considering the usual botiqueness of PS I'm gonna assume it's gonna lean towards the Dominus Pro side.
> 
> Although considering that this lib (Does it have a name yet!?) seems to have both quiet and energetic / loud patches, perhaps it can achieve the fabled "all in one" choir.


Chorus is the name


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## Laurin Lenschow (Nov 17, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Although considering that this lib seems to have both quiet and energetic / loud patches, perhaps it can achieve the fabled "all in one" choir.


That would just make being unable to afford it all the more painful


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## dhmusic (Nov 17, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> perhaps it can achieve the fabled "all in one" choir.


In our dreams... would be nice - and insanely expensive lol. If you put every choir available into one library it still wouldn't make that cut. It would be cool if it did at least one or two things better than the competition though and it sounds like it might?

Hope they've got some good talent for the demos


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## CT (Nov 17, 2021)

Really looking forward to hearing more of this one. So many developers sort of, uh... butcher the human voice with their choir libraries. All the demos so far seem blessedly free of that. All it takes is some care....


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## Futchibon (Nov 17, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Considering the usual botiqueness of PS I'm gonna assume it's gonna lean towards the Dominus Pro side.


TALOS was almost universally condemned for being too expensive, while SOLO was almost universally praised for being great value.

Hopefully CHORUS will be 199 intro and then 299. One can dream!


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## gedlig (Nov 17, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Hopefully CHORUS will be 199 intro and then 299. One can dream!


And would be released on the first couple of days of december so that I could get past the threshold to get the boy soloists 

Honestly those couple of Chorus demos sounded fantastic


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## dnblankedelman (Nov 18, 2021)

audioimperia said:


> Chorus is the name


Any concerns this will make searching for it via a web search, um, tricky?


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## RAdkins (Nov 24, 2021)

@audioimperia Any Chorus updates for black friday shoppers?


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## audioimperia (Nov 24, 2021)

RAdkins said:


> @audioimperia Any Chorus updates for black friday shoppers?


It’s not coming out during Black Friday if that’s what you mean 

but we’re working hard to try and make it an end of year release.


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## Getsumen (Nov 25, 2021)




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## Evans (Nov 25, 2021)

I am excited for this.


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## Trevor Meier (Nov 25, 2021)

My wallet is not excited for this.


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## Getsumen (Nov 26, 2021)

Getsumen said:


> Theory crafting time.
> 
> Is THIS:
> 
> ...



Confirmed to be chorus now ^ (So there's a lil bit of a sneak peek of the male choir there!)


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## Casiquire (Nov 26, 2021)

dnblankedelman said:


> Any concerns this will make searching for it via a web search, um, tricky?


Not really, i usually need to search the company name to find info about a library anyway. All of VSL's older libraries just had generic names


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## Getsumen (Nov 29, 2021)




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## bvaughn0402 (Nov 29, 2021)

Wow, stunning ... will be a buy for me ...

But hey, I've spent so much this month ... feel FREE to take your time. My birthday is in April ... that would be a perfect time to release this! :D


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## Trash Panda (Nov 29, 2021)

@audioimperia can you please make sure the intro pricing period overlaps with the end/beginning of whatever month this comes out? 🙏


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## audioimperia (Nov 29, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> @audioimperia can you please make sure the intro pricing period overlaps with the end/beginning of whatever month this comes out? 🙏


Yeah you should be good


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## audioimperia (Dec 12, 2021)

With the holiday break and all that, realistically we're looking at a January release not an end of December release. Just to keep you guys updated


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## Futchibon (Dec 12, 2021)

audioimperia said:


> With the holiday break and all that, realistically we're looking at a January release not an end of December release. Just to keep you guys updated


Thanks for the update. Any idea if early Jan, mid, late, or too hard to say yet?


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## dunamisstudio (Dec 12, 2021)

Yay, I can save some money and get it then.


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## jcrosby (Dec 12, 2021)

audioimperia said:


> With the holiday break and all that, realistically we're looking at a January release not an end of December release. Just to keep you guys updated


Thanks for being transparent. It's a nice touch


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## Kobiy86 (Jan 7, 2022)

Okay, sooo… It’s January. I’m ready!


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## Evans (Jan 7, 2022)

Kobiy86 said:


> Okay, sooo… It’s January. I’m ready!


I've read about other developers getting hung up on timing from Native Instruments around EOY, and none of those have posted any updates (as far as I am aware). But, it sounds like this was near completion and hopefully came back from NI with few issues.


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## Evans (Jan 8, 2022)

One of those other developers that had a hang-up with NI over the holidays has posted that their pre-order period ends Monday, so it seems like NI might be moving again! Hopefully, there's positive impact to Audio Imperia, as well.


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## Atreyu (Jan 14, 2022)

Will this still be a January release or does it look more like February? I might have to reschedule some things if it won't release this month.


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## audioimperia (Jan 26, 2022)

Alrighty. Wrapping up, we're wraaaaaaaaapping up and sending off to NI for encoding next week from the looks of it. Exciting!!! Added two more tech demos for you guys and of course, we'll be adding more full demos over the next few weeks as well.


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## Futchibon (Jan 27, 2022)

So accoring to NI site it takes about 2 weeks for encoding?


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## yellow_lupine (Jan 27, 2022)

Hello @audioimperia I don't know if it's already been asked but could it be possible to have more details about this library now that it's next to be released?
Something like how many singers it consists of, where it's been recorded and which are the included mics and articulations...
Thanks


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Jan 27, 2022)

Sounds stunningly beautiful!


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## Digivolt (Jan 27, 2022)

audioimperia said:


> Alrighty. Wrapping up, we're wraaaaaaaaapping up and sending off to NI for encoding next week from the looks of it. Exciting!!! Added two more tech demos for you guys and of course, we'll be adding more full demos over the next few weeks as well.



Those demo's are lovely, I really hope it's as playable straight out of the box or close enough!


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## ism (Jan 27, 2022)

Anyone else feel this is like Vista with voices?


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## Evans (Jan 27, 2022)

ism said:


> Anyone else feel this is like Vista with voices?


How so? Vista has only legato patches, split across the different instruments. Chorus has legato/sustains of various types and apparently at least two types of syllables (energetic and slow), but only men/women instead of SATB.

In other words, if not for Jasper's involvement, what is the same?


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## ism (Jan 27, 2022)

Evans said:


> How so? Vista has only legato patches, split across the different instruments. Chorus has legato/sustains of various types and apparently at least two types of syllables (energetic and slow), but only men/women instead of SATB.
> 
> In other words, if not for Jasper's involvement, what is the same?


The super extra sparkly high romantic flowyness. 

It's very beautiful.


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## Evans (Jan 27, 2022)

Funny enough, my ears hear a possibly easy pairing with HOOPUS, stylistically. But to feel more comfortable with that I'm interested in hearing what the closer mics sound like in Chorus. Just a _bit_ more detail.


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## ism (Jan 27, 2022)

Interesting. And precisely where to locate this library in the aesthetic universe is what I'm trying to figure out.

For instance, I hear the Spitfire Apassionata as very much in the space to be a companion to EWC. Which I think is a real sweet spot, though of course the Blakus and Daniels' James demos show quite convincingly that it has sweet spots well beyond that.

Wheres Chorus feels nothing like EWC or Tallinn. More like next generation Venus or Mars (maybe several generations). But the women's ooh legato in particular sounds - very much on a first impression - like a complement to Vista, in much the way that SAS sound, to my ear, very much like a complement to SAS.

Absent walkthrough etc, it's all still very impressionistic of course.

But it does feel like this is something new.


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## Daniel James (Jan 28, 2022)

Genuinely excited for this one. It has such a cinematic tone!!

-DJ


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## fudge (Feb 17, 2022)

Any updates? Very excited for this library.


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## Evans (Feb 17, 2022)

fudge said:


> Any updates? Very excited for this library.


Seemingly sent to Native Instruments for review sometime around Feb 2. No updates since then.

I suppose some good news in the delay is that I've taken a lot of time to tinker with Freyja and Wotan, which I bought but originally had some trouble with. After watching some videos, they're starting to click.


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## audioimperia (Feb 17, 2022)

fudge said:


> Any updates? Very excited for this library.


Encoding is completed as of today. Final tests now to make sure it's all as it should be, and waiting for the installer to be built for Native Access. SO close now


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Feb 18, 2022)

audioimperia said:


> Encoding is completed as of today. Final tests now to make sure it's all as it should be, and waiting for the installer to be built for Native Access. SO close now


It’s going to be amazing!


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## audioimperia (Feb 23, 2022)




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## ChrisSiuMusic (Feb 23, 2022)

audioimperia said:


>



You tease


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## audioimperia (Feb 23, 2022)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> You tease


Itching to get this out to you guys


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## muziksculp (Feb 23, 2022)

Looking forward to your Chamber Strings Library.


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## Drundfunk (Feb 24, 2022)

audioimperia said:


> Itching to get this out to you guys


You waited too long, I'm broke....


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## Tom Ferguson (Feb 24, 2022)

audioimperia said:


> Itching to get this out to you guys


Awesome, looking forward to it. And thanks big time for being an Able Artist Foundation partner btw, much respect 👍


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## Casiquire (Feb 24, 2022)

I'm sure this has been covered already but i didn't see it, is the choir recorded in the same room and in situ with relation to the upcoming strings?


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## Evans (Feb 25, 2022)

Hmm...


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## audioimperia (Feb 28, 2022)

Official Release Date: March 2nd


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## jbuhler (Feb 28, 2022)

audioimperia said:


> Official Release Date: March 2nd



Do you have pricing information yet?


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## Flyo (Feb 28, 2022)

audioimperia said:


> Official Release Date: March 2nd



Hello, a key for me on this regard. How many vowels include? Same as legato, sustains and staccato maybe? Thanks


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Feb 28, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Do you have pricing information yet?


Coming tomorrow apparently


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## Argy Ottas (Feb 28, 2022)

audioimperia said:


> Official Release Date: March 2nd


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## Ian Dorsch (Feb 28, 2022)

Let's goooooooooooooo


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## Laurin Lenschow (Feb 28, 2022)

Sounds absolutely fantastic! (as expected )
Will get this on release day and upload a user demo (and possibly also a review) to my 2nd channel.


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 28, 2022)

Amazing sounding teaser!


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## Casiquire (Feb 28, 2022)

Argy Ottas said:


>



Dang i forgot how good this movie is lmao

This is exciting though, I'm interested to learn more in the coming days!


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## Rob Elliott (Feb 28, 2022)

Top-Drawer. No brainer purchase. About 2-3 of my choir libraries are probably coming off my SSD's.  Congrats in advance.


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## FireGS (Feb 28, 2022)

Still would like to see/hear some playability demos!


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## jbuhler (Feb 28, 2022)

FireGS said:


> Still would like to see/hear some playability demos!


I’d settle for a price and a patch list. Sounds like those are coming tomorrow.


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## axb312 (Feb 28, 2022)

Fingers crossed. Hoping this is affordable..


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## Peros (Mar 1, 2022)

price was just announced on FB - 379USD till April 2nd, then 499USD
Articulation list also on FB if you guys want to check it out


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## Futchibon (Mar 1, 2022)




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## Futchibon (Mar 1, 2022)




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## StefVR (Mar 1, 2022)

Looks a bit “light” on the dynamics side or is it just me?


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## Trash Panda (Mar 1, 2022)

StefVR said:


> Looks a bit “light” on the dynamics side or is it just me?


The Strezov choirs are three dynamic layers. How many are you expecting?


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## ism (Mar 1, 2022)

It's a good question - are there any choirs with more than 3 dynamic layers?


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## Evans (Mar 1, 2022)

ism said:


> It's a good question - are there any choirs with more than 3 dynamic layers?


I _think_ Dominus is three for vowels and two for the words. Somewhere in Paolo's post history.


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## aelwyn (Mar 1, 2022)

Not to derail, but is Hollywood Choirs the only one with a word builder?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 1, 2022)

aelwyn said:


> Not to derail, but is Hollywood Choirs the only one with a word builder?


With that sophistication, yes. Otherwise, Strezov, Dominus, and Voxos have syllable builders (maybe some others). And now this one.


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## axb312 (Mar 1, 2022)

Peros said:


> price was just announced on FB - 379USD till April 2nd, then 499USD
> Articulation list also on FB if you guys want to check it out


Wow. That is pretty steep.


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## Daniel James (Mar 1, 2022)

I posted this in the official thread too, but for those who are getting Chorus details in this one:

I was lucky enough to get an early copy in preparation of my eventual overview of the library and wrote a track using it to act as the backdrop to the stream so I could show it used in context. However I chose to do a variation on one of my favourite video game themes 'Battlefield'.

Given recent events, I won't be publically _pushing_ the track as a demo for Chorus but instead running it as a fundraiser for those in Ukraine who need financial support (via the red cross)

As this track was written for demoing Chorus though, I will comment on that aspect of it here on VI control. So the intro uses the slow vowels, then later in the track we have the men using traditional and women using the energetic vowels. All of which I think fit seamlessly up against all the other libraries used in the track (combo of Vista, Apassionata, JXL brass, Cinebrass...my usuals)


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 1, 2022)

axb312 said:


> Wow. That is pretty steep.


Strezov Choir Ultimate is a little bit more expensive. The price seems to be fair.


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## axb312 (Mar 1, 2022)

Robo Rivard said:


> Strezov Choir Ultimate is a little bit more expensive. The price seems to be fair.


Sorry should have mentioned steep for me. Cheers.


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## Jackal_King (Mar 1, 2022)

I don't know if this was mentioned but will the GUI remain the same or will it be something new?


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## Casiquire (Mar 1, 2022)

aelwyn said:


> Not to derail, but is Hollywood Choirs the only one with a word builder?


Also, their Symphonic Choirs.

I acknowledge that choirs are never sampled with more than three layers, but i think the string sweet spot is close to the 5-6 range and i think a choir would be similar. But i don't fault this or any choir library for limiting it to 3, because the voice is already so extremely difficult to sample and, well, there's no other acoustic instrument in existence that comes even close to the range of sounds a choir can produce just in one single average phrase.


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## Getsumen (Mar 1, 2022)

Jackal_King said:


> I don't know if this was mentioned but will the GUI remain the same or will it be something new?


The same. They have a pic of the UI on their insta


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## Futchibon (Mar 1, 2022)

Robo Rivard said:


> Strezov Choir Ultimate is a little bit more expensive. The price seems to be fair.


And Dominus Pro is $713 for 53GB. This is $499 full for 69GB. So very competitive pricing.


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 1, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> And Dominus Pro is $713 for 53GB. This is $499 full for 69GB. So very competitive pricing.


But at the end of the day, if you like none of those libraries, the concept of "competitive pricing" becomes quite abstract.


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## Futchibon (Mar 1, 2022)

Robo Rivard said:


> But at the end of the day, if you like none of those libraries


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## Delboy (Mar 2, 2022)

Similar price to Spifire EWC sale ... $379 against $369 .... had they included Solo Boy in this launch then I would go with AI as a no brainer ... seems that is not on offer in their product list anymore.


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## OHjorth (Mar 2, 2022)

Getsumen said:


> The same. They have a pic of the UI on their insta


Judging from this image the vocal range looks pretty good. If this image correctly corresponds to the pitch range of the library, sopranos can go a minor fifth higher than nucleus choir! Huge improvement!

Edit: I'm aware it's now the same as Ark 1 sopranos and a few notes below Oceania 2 (I think).


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## Casiquire (Mar 2, 2022)

Futchibon said:


>


I'm not sure we're ready for that conversation 😂

As a total choir snob though I'm pretty excited for some walkthroughs and more detailed reviews and demos. I'm very interested


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2022)

https://www.audioimperia.com/collec...ematic-and-symphonic-choir-for-kontakt-player


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2022)

From Audio Imperia's email for Chorus. 

Quote :

_"
*AUDIO IMPERIA & PERFORMANCE SAMPLES: CHORUS*

Chorus is an incredible cinematic choir of 24 women and 24 men, made for Kontakt Player, that can deliver the full spectrum of emotions and depth that choir vocals are capable of. Whisper quiet and soft, but also mighty, epic, and thundering. This unique property makes Chorus an invaluable tool for any composer looking to add what naturally resonates with all of us: the human voice.

With Chorus you get the know-how and experience from not just one but two orchestral developers: Audio Imperia and Performance Samples. Both Jasper Blunk (Owner of Performance Samples) and Audio Imperia brought everything to the table which, for example, you can see in how we approached the syllables: Jasper brought his expertise with energetic syllables and Audio Imperia brought the expertise with slow syllables.

Additionally, we also brought renowned Hollywood mixing and recording engineer Scott Michael Smith on board for Chorus. Scott's credits include The Revenant, The Handmaids Tale, It Chapter 2, Shazam!, Mank, The Gilded Age, The Adam Project, Call of Duty: Vanguard, and many others. He provided a signature mix mic for Chorus, that really brings the sound of modern film music to the library.

Chorus is a powerful choir library that works across many, many genres. We recorded not only a comprehensive set of traditional articulations but also not just one, but three types of syllables: Traditional, Energetic, and Slow. "_


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## ism (Mar 2, 2022)

It is just me, or does this feel a bit like "Vista for choir"?

Gorgeous library.


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2022)




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## Casiquire (Mar 2, 2022)

ism said:


> It is just me, or does this feel a bit like "Vista for choir"?
> 
> Gorgeous library.


I hope so, the thought of those strings blending in with a choir is already incredible. 



muziksculp said:


> From Audio Imperia's email for Chorus.
> 
> Quote :
> 
> ...


Considering Jasper Blunk's involvement, their statements about a dynamic range that captures the magic of the quietest sounds as well as the grandeur of the loudest carries a lot of weight.


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Considering Jasper Blunk's involvement, their statements about a dynamic range that captures the magic of the quietest sounds as well as the grandeur of the loudest carries a lot of weight.


Yes, it does.

I don't usually use choir sounds in my tracks, but I'm thinking this library might make me use choirs a bit more than I usually do.


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## Casiquire (Mar 2, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Yes, it does.
> 
> I don't usually use choir sounds in my tracks, but I'm thinking this library might make me use choirs a bit more than I usually do.


I don't use choir often either, but not because i don't like choirs, it's because I'm a choir snob and almost none of them please me. Symphonic Choirs and WoFrey have made me happy here and there, but that's an awfully narrow sonic range. This one sounds special.


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I don't use choir often either, but not because i don't like choirs, it's because I'm a choir snob and almost none of them please me. Symphonic Choirs and WoFrey have made me happy here and there, but that's an awfully narrow sonic range. This one sounds special.


Very much the same thoughts here.


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## Casiquire (Mar 2, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>



Thanks for sharing this. I do hear a couple wonky transitions but it's a choir, it'll never be perfect, the voice is just too dynamic. I'm very likely to pick this up


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## Evans (Mar 2, 2022)




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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> Thanks for sharing this. I do hear a couple wonky transitions but it's a choir, it'll never be perfect, the voice is just too dynamic. I'm very likely to pick this up


I haven't heard it yet. But will do so when I have time to focus better. 

Thanks.


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## CT (Mar 2, 2022)

I know with some other NI library recently there were people having issues with disproportionately large space requirements for download. How did people get around that, if at all? Native Access wants way more than double the library size for this one and I don't have that available....


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## DSAZocker (Mar 2, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> I know with some other NI library recently there were people having issues with disproportionately large space requirements for download. How did people get around that, if at all? Native Access wants way more than double the library size for this one and I don't have that available....


I had that problem too, restarting Native Access solved it for me, currently downloading.


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## CT (Mar 2, 2022)

Hmm, still happening for me after restarting.


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## Getsumen (Mar 2, 2022)

Absolutely blown away by the syllables. Especially those syllable transitions on the slow syllables. Fantastic work


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## muziksculp (Mar 2, 2022)




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## Jonathan Daglish (Mar 2, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Hmm, still happening for me after restarting.


Hey @Michaelt,

You can contact Native Instruments to get a direct download link to the .iso (installer file) for Chorus which should help with some of these issues.

Cheers!

Jonathan


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## Zanshin (Mar 2, 2022)

I had sometime to play with it, and honeymoon review - it's really very good 

I know that's a shocker.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 2, 2022)

Revisiting some of the Freya and Wotan demos - they still sound amazing. Makes this a harder sell IMO (as I also have Oceania for the "energetic" choir). AI Choir does have more syllables recorded however.


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## Juulu (Mar 2, 2022)

For anyone who already has Oceania Choir and has decided to pick up Chorus, I'd like to know your opinion comparing both of them. I'm trying to figure out which one I want and it seems like Chorus is more comprehensive, but Oceania looks like it plays better/is easier to use. I don't doubt the quality is there (considering Jasper worked on both of them) but I'm having a hard time picking between the two 😅


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## FrozenIcicle (Mar 2, 2022)

Love the sound, but my Wotan and Freya can do the job for now :( I really want to buy it though


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## Futchibon (Mar 2, 2022)

Juulu said:


> For anyone who already has Oceania Choir and has decided to pick up Chorus, I'd like to know your opinion comparing both of them. I'm trying to figure out which one I want and it seems like Chorus is more comprehensive, but Oceania looks like it plays better/is easier to use. I don't doubt the quality is there (considering Jasper worked on both of them) but I'm having a hard time picking between the two 😅





FrozenIcicle said:


> Love the sound, but my Wotan and Freya can do the job for now :( I really want to buy it though


Yeah I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts who have other choirs libs like Oceania, SCU, DOminus etc how they compare.


Casiquire said:


> I'm not sure we're ready for that conversation 😂
> 
> As a total choir snob though I'm pretty excited for some walkthroughs and more detailed reviews and demos. I'm very interested


Ah yes, the Dominus denier! 

I have a similar attitude to choirs libs as muzicsulp has to strings - you can never have enough! Individually they aren't a patch on the real thing, but together they can achieve lovely results IMO


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## Evans (Mar 2, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Revisiting some of the Freya and Wotan demos - they still sound amazing. Makes this a harder sell IMO (as I also have Oceania for the "energetic" choir). AI Choir does have more syllables recorded however.


Yeah, naturally, this isn't as sure of a purchase for people who have two (or more) of the Strezov choirs and perhaps Oceana 1/2 or even EWC. As it seems many people here do. EDIT: And heck, I forgot all those lovely, bite-size OT choirs.

But if you're not super stocked up and don't want the EWC Evo patches, then it may be a super easy first choir buy if you have the budget for it.


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## Getsumen (Mar 2, 2022)

Juulu said:


> For anyone who already has Oceania Choir and has decided to pick up Chorus, I'd like to know your opinion comparing both of them. I'm trying to figure out which one I want and it seems like Chorus is more comprehensive, but Oceania looks like it plays better/is easier to use. I don't doubt the quality is there (considering Jasper worked on both of them) but I'm having a hard time picking between the two 😅


How would Oceania play better if I may ask? They both have the exact same style of syllables (I think) but Chorus has more syllables and more dynamic layers.

The one thing off the top of my head that Oceania has that Chorus doesn't is the auto S feature in addition to manually assigning S releases.


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## Trash Panda (Mar 2, 2022)

Juulu said:


> For anyone who already has Oceania Choir and has decided to pick up Chorus, I'd like to know your opinion comparing both of them. I'm trying to figure out which one I want and it seems like Chorus is more comprehensive, but Oceania looks like it plays better/is easier to use. I don't doubt the quality is there (considering Jasper worked on both of them) but I'm having a hard time picking between the two 😅


Oceania 1/2 is basically just the Energetic Syllables patch from Chorus with a different number of singers and fewer microphone options. They basically play the same, but you have more style options with Chorus.


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## Zanshin (Mar 2, 2022)

Evans said:


> Yeah, naturally, this isn't as sure of a purchase for people who have two (or more) of the Strezov choirs and perhaps Oceana 1/2 or even EWC. As it seems many people here do.


Preface - I am not a choir aficionado. Most of my choir stuff is OT (Arks, Tallinn, Modulus). I don't have any of the Strezov choirs because after I bought Jade (meh) and Macabre Strings (bleh) I swore I'd buy no more from them, no matter how much people say they love the other libraries. Dominus looks like a dishwasher instruction manual to me. So anyway...

I just picked up EWC last night. I feel like EWC and this complement each other nicely. The ground ECW covers on the low dynamics (especially), Chorus really doesn't have. EWC ends about where Chorus starts dynamically. This is mostly based on the female choir traditional set of articulations. Obviously Chorus has all the awesome syllables stuff, EWC has the Evo stuff. I think someone could decide where their tastes lie and pick one or the other easily (or both in my case), but they feel pretty different once you get below the surface. I'm sure it is a harder choice for people who have the Strezov choirs though.

I'm thinking I'll pick up Genesis too at some point.


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## SamMarksMusic (Mar 2, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Preface - I am not a choir aficionado. Most of my choir stuff is OT (Arks, Tallinn, Modulus). I don't have any of the Strezov choirs because after I bought Jade (meh) and Macabre Strings (bleh) I swore I'd buy no more from them, no matter how much people say they love the other libraries. Dominus looks like a dishwasher instruction manual to me. So anyway...
> 
> I just picked up EWC last night. I feel like EWC and this complement each other nicely. The ground ECW covers on the low dynamics (especially), Chorus really doesn't have. EWC ends about where Chorus starts dynamically. This is mostly based on the female choir traditional set of articulations. Obviously Chorus has all the awesome syllables stuff, EWC has the Evo stuff. I think someone could decide where their tastes lie and pick one or the other easily (or both in my case), but they feel pretty different once you get below the surface. I'm sure it is a harder choice for people who have the Strezov choirs though.
> 
> I'm thinking I'll pick up Genesis too at some point.


Love the Strezov libraries! It's so interesting to hear peoples varying and various opinions. I absolutely love the libraries you are't impressed with. I'm sure you have many libraries you do love and enjoy though. Thanks for the insights.


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## Futchibon (Mar 2, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Most of my choir stuff is OT (Arks, Tallinn, Modulus).


Is Modulus a new OT/Spitfire collab merging Modus and the ARO modular orchestra? 


Zanshin said:


> I don't have any of the Strezov choirs because after I bought Jade (meh) and Macabre Strings (bleh) I swore I'd buy no more from them, no matter how much people say they love the other libraries.


I don't have Jade but feel the same way about Macabre. But Afflatus is absolutely amazeballs although coming from VSL you might not be able to handle all the vitality and life in it!

Freyja and Choir Essentials are both really, really good and their Djembe is ridiculously fun to play...


Zanshin said:


> Dominus looks like a dishwasher instruction manual to me.


The soapranos are excellent! EWC is priced like a real dishwasher! (I like it though)


Zanshin said:


> I'm thinking I'll pick up Genesis too at some point.


You'll have to stop the 'pedo choir' jokes then  It's great, but some say it can sound a little synthy compared to Arva, which I can see.


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## Zanshin (Mar 2, 2022)

SamMarksMusic said:


> Love the Strezov libraries!


Yeah I know I am in the minority here. I only have the two, I have no opinion on the rest of the libraries.


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## Zanshin (Mar 2, 2022)

I love you @Futchibon!!



Futchibon said:


> Is Modulus a new OT/Spitfire collab merging Modus and the ARO modular orchestra?


Yes, Modus 



Futchibon said:


> I don't have Jade but feel the same way about Macabre. But Afflatus is absolutely amazeballs although coming from VSL you might not be able to handle all the vitality and life in it!
> 
> Freyja and Choir Essentials are both really, really good and their Djembe is ridiculously fun to play...
> 
> ...


I came very close to buying Afflatus when it was 1/2 off lol. I have been tempted to get Rhodope as well.

Pedo just means "of a child; relating to children."


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## BassClef (Mar 2, 2022)

Audio Imperia Chorus --- VERSUS --- East West Hollywood Choirs

Interesting that this choir just dropped. I was looking for a choir like this and was considering East West Hollywood Choirs, currently $499 but often found at 50% or 60% off. ($300 or $240)

I currently have Spitfire's Eric Whiticre choir, the old 8dio Lacrimosa and the choirs in Met Ark 1&2.

I would not likely use the EW word builder, so discounting that difference, how do you think the two choirs compare?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 2, 2022)

BassClef said:


> Audio Imperia Chorus --- VERSUS --- East West Hollywood Choirs
> 
> Interesting that this choir just dropped. I was looking for a choir like this and was considering East West Hollywood Choirs, currently $499 but often found at 50% or 60% off. ($300 or $240)
> 
> ...


If you’re not using the word builder, not sure it makes much sense to buy Hollywood Choirs. The legatos aren’t particularly good. AI Chorus would offer you much more plus 3 distinct styles. But the HC word builder is quite the feat of sampling technology.


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## Juulu (Mar 2, 2022)

Getsumen said:


> How would Oceania play better if I may ask? They both have the exact same style of syllables (I think) but Chorus has more syllables and more dynamic layers.
> 
> The one thing off the top of my head that Oceania has that Chorus doesn't is the auto S feature in addition to manually assigning S releases.


Well it seems like in the examples I've seen Oceania handles those "energetic syllables" a little better



In Chorus they seem kind of sluggish. It could also just be the way they have the words lined up, making them sound less fluid. I do really like the slow syllables thing though.


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## moon (Mar 2, 2022)

Why does everyone insist on making their choir libraries sound so...old? I'm so sick of hearing middle aged men shout gibberish and some women going WOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO.


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## CT (Mar 2, 2022)

moon said:


> Why does everyone insist on making their choir libraries sound so...old? I'm so sick of hearing middle aged men shout gibberish and some women going WOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO.


Can't wait to hear your choir library!


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## pinki (Mar 2, 2022)

moon said:


> Why does everyone insist on making their choir libraries sound so...old? I'm so sick of hearing middle aged men shout gibberish and some women going WOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO.


Well you are probably experiencing the fact that ALL sampled choirs are in effect ridiculous. Real choirs don’t sound anything like sampled choirs in any way. Choirs sing words and relay the meaning of the words. So every sampled choir is just an approximation of the sound of a choir and in that respect a tool for mock-ups. They do that very well. Anyhow sorry for the OT.


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## CT (Mar 2, 2022)

While I wait to find out what the deal is with Native Access, here's a bit of the slow syllables I tried out in context during the beta period.




Man, SoundCloud really does crap up the high end doesn't it? Is there any decent alternative yet?


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## moon (Mar 2, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Can't wait to hear your choir library!


Oops! Sorry, I forgot that I'm not allowed to criticize anything if I myself haven't done it. Do you mind spotting me some cash so I can go buy every library on the market, since they're all perfect in every way?



pinki said:


> Well you are probably experiencing the fact that ALL sampled choirs are in effect ridiculous. Real choirs don’t sound anything like sampled choirs in any way. Choirs sing words and relay the meaning of the words. So every sampled choir is just an approximation of the sound of a choir and in that respect a tool for mock-ups. They do that very well. Anyhow sorry for the OT.


Agreed. I've sung in choirs my whole life, and there are only a few choral libraries that I feel have any sense of realism, AKA not blastissimo shouting and wobbling.


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## CT (Mar 2, 2022)

moon said:


> Oops! Sorry, I forgot that I'm not allowed to criticize anything if I myself haven't done it.


Try to remember next time.



moon said:


> Do you mind spotting me some cash so I can go buy every library on the market, since they're all perfect in every way?


No!


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## RM 13 (Mar 3, 2022)

I always wondered why nobody dared develop further EW's wordbuilder, which is the only tool that can make the choir sing whatever you want. Needs a lot of tweaking and pampering but it kind of works, especially when used in context. I mean, EW did that 10-15 years ago and since then they just made some adjustments for the newer Hollywood Choirs. I never liked syllable builders. I know it must be a real pain to do a full functioning, easy to work with wordbuilder, but I hope we will eventually come to that. The weird thing is that nobody makes steps on that direction, especially when we've come to a point that most developers have little to nothing innovative to offer. The even weirder is that I don't see people asking for it. 

P. S. Chorus sounds great.


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## Casiquire (Mar 3, 2022)

moon said:


> Oops! Sorry, I forgot that I'm not allowed to criticize anything if I myself haven't done it. Do you mind spotting me some cash so I can go buy every library on the market, since they're all perfect in every way?
> 
> 
> Agreed. I've sung in choirs my whole life, and there are only a few choral libraries that I feel have any sense of realism, AKA not blastissimo shouting and wobbling.


It's because sampled choirs aren't made to create choir music, they're made to create music for media. Someone scoring a video game doesn't want a realistic choir singing carefully chosen words, they want to hear a room full of people instantly blow out their voices.

What you're looking for might be...Tallinn, Metropolis Ark 2 choirs, or Eric Whitacre. Though from what I'm hearing from the Audio Imperia Chorus library we're referring to, the soft dynamics sound pretty good to me, also a lifetime choir singer who feels unsatisfied with the current state of the market


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## moon (Mar 3, 2022)

RM 13 said:


> I always wondered why nobody dared develop further EW's wordbuilder, which is the only tool that can make the choir sing whatever you want. Needs a lot of tweaking and pampering but it kind of works, especially when used in context. I mean, EW did that 10-15 years ago and since then they just made some adjustments for the newer Hollywood Choirs. I never liked syllable builders. I know it must be a real pain to do a full functioning, easy to work with wordbuilder, but I hope we will eventually come to that. The weird thing is that nobody makes steps on that direction, especially when we've come to a point that most developers have little to nothing innovative to offer. The even weirder is that I don't see people asking for it.
> 
> P. S. Chorus sounds great.


I think people have been conditioned to not care. So much media music is EPIC, and for that, you don't need any choir except football dads and the local wine moms. Just look at this forum! It's all about strings strings strings strings strings. Orchestral music is by far the most popular style here. And I understand why, it's just unfortunate that we've almost entirely neglected such an amazing style of writing.



Casiquire said:


> It's because sampled choirs aren't made to create choir music, they're made to create music for media. Someone scoring a video game doesn't want a realistic choir singing carefully chosen words, they want to hear a room full of people instantly blow out their voices.
> 
> What you're looking for might be...Tallinn, Metropolis Ark 2 choirs, or Eric Whitacre. Though from what I'm hearing from the Audio Imperia Chorus library we're referring to, the soft dynamics sound pretty good to me, also a lifetime choir singer who feels unsatisfied with the current state of the market


Glad we're in the same boat about choirs! I do have Tallinn, which I've been very happy with, and I've been eyeing Ark 2. I refuse to ever buy Whitacre choir, but that's a whole different thing.


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## Casiquire (Mar 3, 2022)

moon said:


> I think people have been conditioned to not care. So much media music is EPIC, and for that, you don't need any choir except football dads and the local wine moms. Just look at this forum! It's all about strings strings strings strings strings. Orchestral music is by far the most popular style here. And I understand why, it's just unfortunate that we've almost entirely neglected such an amazing style of writing.
> 
> 
> Glad we're in the same boat about choirs! I do have Tallinn, which I've been very happy with, and I've been eyeing Ark 2. I refuse to ever buy Whitacre choir, but that's a whole different thing.


I really like Ark 2, but i think you get pretty much the same and much more from Tallinn. In that case if you want a different texture, Miroire (grain of salt, i don't own this one) seems to hit a more classical choir sound. Not quite Handel, but there's a touch of that bouncy Handel style in the legatos and they don't sound like they get too brash. Very low vibrato too.


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## Getsumen (Mar 3, 2022)

One reason that people might not be asking for word builders is like me, they don't see the point of wordbuilders, but this is just my view so don't crucify me!

Looking at how long it takes to make a phrase in a wordbuilder looks like a nightmare to me. Typing in words in whatever phonetic language they use, manually assigning timing, etc. etc.

By the end of it all it doesn't even sound... great? Don't get me wrong it's pretty mindblowing how good it is, but obviously, from technical and sampling limitations there's just no way to get a sound that's as real sounding as say string or brass samples. (Or sampled syllable choirs for that matter)

I personally am much more content to just lay down something, smash a few keys, and hear the funny software output some nice sounds. I am hopeful that vocal synths such as SynthV will expand to include choirs somehow in the future though, although that does provide a different set of challenges and limitations.

Anyway tangent aside how else would you suggest Chorus handle stuff? They can't do English words or syllables or else you'll hear the same recognizable things over and over again. Does every choir need to be that sluggish wordbuilder? One of the main selling points to me and I'm sure many others is how playable Chorus is with the syllables.


Anyway, that aside I'm not sure what the relation between that and epic choirs is. Chorus seems to handle quiet quite well, as do a good dozen or so other syllable choirs out there


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## RM 13 (Mar 3, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> It's because sampled choirs aren't made to create choir music, they're made to create music for media. Someone scoring a video game doesn't want a realistic choir singing carefully chosen words, they want to hear a room full of people instantly blow out their voices.





moon said:


> I think people have been conditioned to not care. So much media music is EPIC, and for that, you don't need any choir except football dads and the local wine moms. Just look at this forum! It's all about strings strings strings strings strings. Orchestral music is by far the most popular style here. And I understand why, it's just unfortunate that we've almost entirely neglected such an amazing style of writing.


Yeah guys, I think your explanation makes sense. It's enough to sing gibberish since no one cares about lyrics in media orch/hybrid pieces. I am totally into this kind of music (that's the reason I'm on VIC) but I would still prefer to be able to write a little "real" lyric here and there when the choir sings. Just to add that little detail to a piece and make it unique. As things are now, the use of choir libraries may be kind of limited, compared to other instruments, because how many times can you use the same pre-baked syllables again and again and again. It's good for business though; you need to buy a new choir library every now and then


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## CT (Mar 3, 2022)

Getsumen said:


> One reason that people might not be asking for word builders is like me, they don't see the point of wordbuilders, but this is just my view so don't crucify me!
> 
> Looking at how long it takes to make a phrase in a wordbuilder looks like a nightmare to me. Typing in words in whatever phonetic language they use, manually assigning timing, etc. etc.
> 
> ...


Yeah. I'm another "choir snob" apparently but wordbuilders are the greatest butchery perpetrated on the choral art by VI developers in my view. Most of what's out there is in the "good enough for mock-up world" range, with some exceptional stuff. But wordbuilders like EastWest's... please no.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 3, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Yeah. I'm another "choir snob" apparently but wordbuilders are the greatest butchery perpetrated on the choral art by VI developers in my view. Most of what's out there is in the "good enough for mock-up world" range, with some exceptional stuff. But wordbuilders like EastWest's... please no.


In my opinion, the EW Hollywood Choirs word builder is untouched in terms of what it offers - totally free form lyrics. The output won’t fool anybody into thinking that it is a real choir if you are listening to it solo or prominently in a mix, but used right, it has unmatched flexibility. Like all things, it is how you use them.


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## Casiquire (Mar 3, 2022)

RM 13 said:


> Yeah guys, I think your explanation makes sense. It's enough to sing gibberish since no one cares about lyrics in media orch/hybrid pieces. I am totally into this kind of music (that's the reason I'm on VIC) but I would still prefer to be able to write a little "real" lyric here and there when the choir sings. Just to add that little detail to a piece and make it unique. As things are now, the use of choir libraries may be kind of limited, compared to other instruments, because how many times can you use the same pre-baked syllables again and again and again. It's good for business though; you need to buy a new choir library every now and then


Yeah! And I can tell you why, too. A string library is like a choir library with one vowel. English has six something like eight vowels you'd need to sample just to scrape by, and you'd want to do more than that to get all the right diphthongs and bends we do while we speak. Also the tuning and formants will cause a ton of problems along the way. And then you'd need to do the consonants. There are dozens of them. You'd need to record them into each vowel as well, to get a natural sound. You'd want to do that at multiple dynamics and speeds, and you'd probably have to sample round robins as well. It's basically like taking on more than ten string libraries at the same time.

I can write a second paragraph just summarizing the problems that will inevitably come up even if you did all of that, like for example a singer's vowel shape might be a little different depending on musical context, but you get the idea... There's a reason the market is so targeted at a demographic whose needs make the creation of a library *possible*, even if us choir people are left feeling sidelined


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## Casiquire (Mar 3, 2022)

Getsumen said:


> One reason that people might not be asking for word builders is like me, they don't see the point of wordbuilders, but this is just my view so don't crucify me!
> 
> Looking at how long it takes to make a phrase in a wordbuilder looks like a nightmare to me. Typing in words in whatever phonetic language they use, manually assigning timing, etc. etc.
> 
> ...


The reason is...words are necessary if you're writing a piece of choir music. It's that simple 😁 we know the effort is high and results are poor, but if writing choir music is what we do, that's just the state of the industry


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## CT (Mar 3, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> The reason is...words are necessary if you're writing a piece of choir music. It's that simple 😁 we know the effort is high and results are poor, but if writing choir music is what we do, that's just the state of the industry


Well I don't agree with that at all. If you _do_ _need_ to communicate a text through what you're doing, you're in a very tight spot working with VIs, but I don't think there's any reason to act like there is no viable choral music to be written that doesn't rely on words.


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## pinki (Mar 3, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Well I don't agree with that at all. If you _do_ _need_ to communicate a text through what you're doing, you're in a very tight spot working with VIs, but I don't think there's any reason to act like there is no viable choral music to be written that doesn't rely on words.


Yes agreed. Text is not happening any time soon, and I'm fine with that. But there is still a lot that can be done with oohs, aahs and yelps...

In fact I did just that last year with with a commission for which I used Rhodope. The idea was to replace Rhodope with a real choir this year. I'm in the process of that now but the interesting thing is that some of the Rhodope choir we have grown fond of and is going to stay in the mix. 

But real words and phrased meaning from a V.I. ...maybe next millennium?


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## Noeticus (Mar 3, 2022)

I'm not complaining about all the great Choir Libraries out there, but when I Choir Library can do this, I will be ecstatic!!!




NI Mysteria can sort of do touches of this.


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## CT (Mar 3, 2022)

pinki said:


> But real words and phrased meaning from a V.I. ...maybe next millennium?


Hah, hopefully by then it'll be much more possible for composers to secure real performances at will, and virtual instruments will be (mostly) a relic of the dark ages.


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## Casiquire (Mar 3, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Well I don't agree with that at all. If you _do_ _need_ to communicate a text through what you're doing, you're in a very tight spot working with VIs, but I don't think there's any reason to act like there is no viable choral music to be written that doesn't rely on words.


That wasn't in question. The issue is the vast majority of choir music *does* have words. It's like telling someone who only has Cineperc to write an entire symphony. There no reason to "act like there's no viable" orchestral "music to be written that doesn't rely on" the rest of the orchestra, but you can see why it's an unreasonable expectation


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## CT (Mar 4, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> That wasn't in question.


Well given that you said 



Casiquire said:


> The reason is...words are necessary if you're writing a piece of choir music. It's that simple


it seemed like it was!


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## jbuhler (Mar 4, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> That wasn't in question. The issue is the vast majority of choir music *does* have words. It's like telling someone who only has Cineperc to write an entire symphony. There no reason to "act like there's no viable" orchestral "music to be written that doesn't rely on" the rest of the orchestra, but you can see why it's an unreasonable expectation


We've talked about this before I think. Choirs do have words and the impression of words and syllables being sung is crucial to the choral effect if you are doing anything outside of wordless choir, which is a very narrow aspect of what choirs can do. It's like reducing strings to being nothing other than sustain pads. 

But often in practice choral words as such are not that intelligible in live performance, though the patterning of consonants and vowels still plays a crucial expressive musical role, as various articulations do in instrumental works. Or maybe rather than saying that choral words are often unintelligible it would be better to say that they are inherently ambiguous. Not always, but often enough that there is a slippage between the sound and and any determinate language. So it's possible to "cheat" with choirs in the sense of singing gibberish that sounds like it's a foreign language. This can be a cinematic effect, to be sure. And the impression of singing words—any words—is really quite different from the impression of singing nothing other than wordless vowels. It's in this sense that syllables greatly expand the musical potential for using choirs (or solo voices with consonants) over wordless vowels, however lovely the legatos and sounds of those vowels.

So mocking up concert works with choirs still seems a ways off, and things like the East-West word builders or Dominus can still only get to an approximation. One could say the same thing of most sample libraries, except I would say that the approximation of instrumental libraries seems several degrees closer than vocal libraries and far less kludgy to implement. But with all of them there is still a lot of fine music that can be drawn from them so long as you work with what the libraries offer. Which doesn't mean exactly writing to the capabilities of the libraries but more understanding the constraints the libraries impose, and working to find a musical expression that can effectively negotiate those constraints or can even turn those constraints into a dimension of musical expression.


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## Casiquire (Mar 4, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Well given that you said
> 
> 
> it seemed like it was!


In the same way I'd consider strings necessary to write a symphony. Technically they're not, but practically speaking, they really are. That was my entire point in my response to you.



jbuhler said:


> We've talked about this before I think. Choirs do have words and the impression of words and syllables being sung is crucial to the choral effect if you are doing anything outside of wordless choir, which is a very narrow aspect of what choirs can do. It's like reducing strings to being nothing other than sustain pads.
> 
> But often in practice choral words as such are not that intelligible in live performance, though the patterning of consonants and vowels still plays a crucial expressive musical role, as various articulations do in instrumental works. Or maybe rather than saying that choral words are often unintelligible it would be better to say that they are inherently ambiguous. Not always, but often enough that there is a slippage between the sound and and any determinate language. So it's possible to "cheat" with choirs in the sense of singing gibberish that sounds like it's a foreign language. This can be a cinematic effect, to be sure. And the impression of singing words—any words—is really quite different from the impression of singing nothing other than wordless vowels. It's in this sense that syllables greatly expand the musical potential for using choirs (or solo voices with consonants) over wordless vowels, however lovely the legatos and sounds of those vowels.
> 
> So mocking up concert works with choirs still seems a ways off, and things like the East-West word builders or Dominus can still only get to an approximation. One could say the same thing of most sample libraries, except I would say that the approximation of instrumental libraries seems several degrees closer than vocal libraries and far less kludgy to implement. But with all of them there is still a lot of fine music that can be drawn from them so long as you work with what the libraries offer. Which doesn't mean exactly writing to the capabilities of the libraries but more understanding the constraints the libraries impose, and working to find a musical expression that can effectively negotiate those constraints or can even turn those constraints into a dimension of musical expression.


I would like technology to keep pushing in the direction of accommodating actual choral writing. At the moment, our libraries fall short


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## Ian Dorsch (Mar 4, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> But with all of them there is still a lot of fine music that can be drawn from them so long as you work with what the libraries offer. Which doesn't mean exactly writing to the capabilities of the libraries but more understanding the constraints the libraries impose, and working to find a musical expression that can effectively negotiate those constraints or can even turn those constraints into a dimension of musical expression.


This is it, IMO. I'm also a lifelong choral singer and choir director, and for years I refused to buy any choir library because I found them so offensive. When I was young and angry at everything, all the time, I'd have rather not had any choral elements in my writing at all if meant using something as gauche as a sample library. But eventually I was like, huh, look at how John Williams uses choirs in Jurassic Park, it doesn't all have to be Lauridsen or Ligeti to be evocative and effective in context. And guess what, the tools we have are pretty good at that kind of thing, even for non-"epic" writing.

If you want to write "real" "legit" choral music, write it, and find a real choir to sing it. It's easier than you think, if your stuff is good. Or, if you have conducting chops, start your own choir (not as easy, but easier than it used to be, thanks to social media). Samples will not get you there, at least not for a long, long time. But the tools we have now are pretty good at specific musical things, if you're willing to do the work to determine where the boundaries are.


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## jbuhler (Mar 4, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I would like technology to keep pushing in the direction of accommodating actual choral writing. At the moment, our libraries fall short


We're agreed on this, though I might question "actual" in that formulation, because it situates live performance as primary and recorded/sampled performance as secondary and derivative, and I don't think that needs to be the case (though I acknowledge it tends to operate as normal ontological order). I would also like technology to keep pushing in the direction of a more comprehensive orchestral writing—it is the lack of comprehensiveness more than the lack of duplicating "real" orchestras that strikes me as the underlying difficulty. The libraries also fall short there, though a bit less than with choral libraries. But in the meantime, if you observe the constraints, you can write decent music with orchestral libraries. And the same goes with choral libraries too. And in all cases, you do better writing original pieces with libraries than mocking up pieces that were designed for live performance because you can make musical adjustments to encountered constraints rather than needing to use compromise formulations.


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## Casiquire (Mar 4, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> We're agreed on this, though I might question "actual" in that formulation, because it situates live performance as primary and recorded/sampled performance as secondary and derivative, and I don't think that needs to be the case (though I acknowledge it tends to operate as normal ontological order). I would also like technology to keep pushing in the direction of a more comprehensive orchestral writing—it is the lack of comprehensiveness more than the lack of duplicating "real" orchestras that strikes me as the underlying difficulty. The libraries also fall short there, though a bit less than with choral libraries. But in the meantime, if you observe the constraints, you can write decent music with orchestral libraries. And the same goes with choral libraries too. And in all cases, you do better writing original pieces with libraries than mocking up pieces that were designed for live performance because you can make musical adjustments to encountered constraints rather than needing to use compromise formulations.


It's less about live performing, and more about writing music that actually fits in with the existing repertoire.

I agree that the same applies to orchestras, but we've come to the point where live orchestral performers can't tell the difference. We are at least a decade away from that point with choirs, i think


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## jbuhler (Mar 4, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I agree that the same applies to orchestras, but we've come to the point where live orchestral performers can't tell the difference. We are at least a decade away from that point with choirs, i think


Only sometimes, and it depends very much on the music. 

I don't disagree with general assessment that orchestras are much further along than choirs. Beyond the issue of sound, there is the issue of workflow. And choirs remain a complete PITA compared to even the most complex orchestral instrument.


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## muziksculp (Mar 4, 2022)

My main choir library is EW-Hollywood Choirs. What would AI-Chorus offer that would make it worth buying at $379. ?


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## Futchibon (Mar 4, 2022)

Let's not forget that a lot of choral music isn't in English. My Italian is basic and my Latin is non existent!


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## Casiquire (Mar 4, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> My main choir library is EW-Hollywood Choirs. What would AI-Chorus offer that would make it worth buying at $379. ?


LEGATO! The one in Hollywood Choirs is so sub par that i honestly thought it was not recorded but barely scripted.

Also i think the AI one is a little more versatile in sound. 

I'm still undecided on it myself though. I have WoFrey, some Metropolis choirs, Dominus, and Symphonic Choirs. With the state of the market, i keep asking whether this is quite enough of a step forward for me. We'll see!


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## muziksculp (Mar 4, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> LEGATO! The one in Hollywood Choirs is so sub par that i honestly thought it was not recorded but barely scripted.
> 
> Also i think the AI one is a little more versatile in sound.
> 
> I'm still undecided on it myself though. I have WoFrey, some Metropolis choirs, Dominus, and Symphonic Choirs. With the state of the market, i keep asking whether this is quite enough of a step forward for me. We'll see!


I see, I agree the EW-HC legatos are sub-standard for these days. I think if you use the sustains they are pretty good, actually, I find legato choirs still not up to the job. I also don't use choirs much, so with some of the other Audio Imperia Choir patches in their other libraries, and some of the OT choirs, I have a decent variety of Choirs for my needs, that's why I think spending $379. for this library is still an overkill for my needs. 

But, I'm still interested in their upcoming Strings Library. Not sure when it will be released.


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## paulmatthew (Mar 4, 2022)

Stefano jamming out with Chorus, Atlantis, Elements and Metropolis Ark!


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## Trash Panda (Mar 4, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> I see, I agree the EW-HC legatos are sub-standard for these days. I think if you use the sustains they are pretty good, actually, I find legato choirs still not up to the job. I also don't use choirs much, so with some of the other Audio Imperia Choir patches in their other libraries, and some of the OT choirs, I have a decent variety of Choirs for my needs, that's why I think spending $379. for this library is still an overkill for my needs.
> 
> But, I'm still interested in their upcoming Strings Library. Not sure when it will be released.


Choir libraries are like string libraries. You can never have enough of them.


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## Sarah Mancuso (Mar 4, 2022)

Sampled wordbuilder choirs are a dead-end I think. I've yet to hear one that actually sounds convincing, and for the huge amount of extra production expense, it's not worth it when the results sound how they sound. Nonsense choirs are done because that is an expectation that can actually be reasonably met. If you want a choir to sing real words without sounding like robots, you either need a real choir or you need something that isn't sample-based. Cobbling together a bunch of separately recorded syllable samples in Kontakt is unlikely to ever to get you what you want.

(This opinion is mine and does not reflect the views of my employer, etc etc)


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## jbuhler (Mar 4, 2022)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> Sampled wordbuilder choirs are a dead-end I think. I've yet to hear one that actually sounds convincing, and for the huge amount of extra production expense, it's not worth it when the results sound how they sound. Nonsense choirs are done because that is an expectation that can actually be reasonably met. If you want a choir to sing real words without sounding like robots, you either need a real choir or you need something that isn't sample-based. Cobbling together a bunch of separately recorded syllable samples in Kontakt is unlikely to ever to get you what you want.
> 
> (This opinion is mine and does not reflect the views of my employer, etc etc)


I’m not sure they are exactly a dead end except I agree they are unlikely to ever do well what they were designed to do: sing real text. But many combinations work very well. And so if you are content to have your word builders sing gibberish they can do that quite convincingly and with somewhat more variety than syllable choirs. If you focus in on the effective combinations the word builders are not necessarily that much more work than the syllable choirs either. At least in my experience the big time sink of word builders is navigating all those bits that just don’t want to flow together. But if you are under no obligation to get a particular combination right or even fake it, then you can just have a gibberish that doesn’t use that combination. Voila! Problem and time sink both disappear. And now you have a choir that sings quite a lot of syllables or words effectively—far more than any syllable choir—even though you can’t string together a sentence that is intelligible in a real language. 

So like others I’m very pessimistic that sampled choirs will be able to sing anything other than short snippets of real text soon. But I also think current choirs are further along in sounding like they are singing words. The words they sing are gibberish, to be sure. They do not conform to any existing language. But the libraries sound like the choir is singing some unknown language, not like they are not a choir singing. And as I said word builders have a far higher effective syllable count than do syllable choirs.


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## muziksculp (Mar 4, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Choir libraries are like string libraries. You can never have enough of them.


But, not for Muziksculp. (Strings and Woodwinds) are my weaknesses, can't get enough of those.


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## Zedcars (Mar 4, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> But, not for Muziksculp. (Strings and Woodwinds) are my weaknesses, can't get enough of those.


Oh yes, especially oboes eh?


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## muziksculp (Mar 4, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> Oh yes, especially oboes eh?


Also English Horn, flute, bassoon, clarinet, ... etc. Actually, I love the entire woodwind family. They are wonderful people.


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## ism (Mar 5, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> It's because sampled choirs aren't made to create choir music, they're made to create music for media. Someone scoring a video game doesn't want a realistic choir singing carefully chosen words, they want to hear a room full of people instantly blow out their voices.


I think that this is a really important point.

I've been drawing distinctions between "epic" and "soft" in choir libraries, and it's certainly true there's early choral libraries leaned more towards am epic Lord of the Rings style, and their soft layers were really just there to support the epic, and lacked enough dynamic nuance to actually compose to anything other than the epic.

But I think your point sharpens this distinction considerably, in that there's a lot of hybrid and media music that uses choral libraries as pads, or hyper-organic synths, or underscore, and not something that you'd ever put in front of an actual choir to sing for an audience.

But conversely, when I talk about soft libraries (EWC, Dominus, Tallinn etc), I'm really not talking just about low dynamic choirs libraries, but more the ability to write something resembling actual choral music quo music and the type of nuance this requires in non-epic contexts - ie. music that you would listen to as choral music, and not just hybrid or epic or underscore. (Which you cannot do with a library limited to p and ff layers).


So I also think that this is a crucial rejoinder:



jbuhler said:


> there is still a lot of fine music that can be drawn from them so long as you work with what the libraries offer. Which doesn't mean exactly writing to the capabilities of the libraries but more understanding the constraints the libraries impose, and working to find a musical expression that can effectively negotiate those constraints or can even turn those constraints into a dimension of musical expression.





jbuhler said:


> So it's possible to "cheat" with choirs in the sense of singing gibberish that sounds like it's a foreign language. This can be a cinematic effect, to be sure. And the impression of singing words—any words—is really quite different from the impression of singing nothing other than wordless vowels.



Because I understand that for a singer, the experience of singing in choirs is deeply and materially engaged in the actual words, and so simply not covered by the choral libraries that we currently have.

But perhaps we could contrast this to experience of listening to choral music - say, Pärt's later choral work even if one doesn't understand much Estonian. There's quite a lot of meaning born in there even with the words. Even in imperfect, untranslated "patterning of consonants and vowels", the human voice conveys meaning and musicality is uniquely powerful ways.


There's of course a lot of space in between. For instance, to my ear, Chorus seems to be resolutely cinematic ... and yet it still feels like there's some new space opening up space there for some form composition of choral music quo music. It's generations beyond Requiem or Venus and Mars.

And it contains at least something of what excites me about EWC or Tallinn or Dominus, which is their ability to reach into the expressive space of choral music quo music - though of course with the limitations mentioned above.


Yet, with all that said, this book:




speaks at great length about just how deeply intertwined Pärt's words are with the music.

So on the one hand, I think respecting the artistic space of music-and-text of a composer like Pärt's is very important, and that this is a world samples just don't take us to.



jbuhler said:


> often in practice choral words as such are not that intelligible in live performance, though the patterning of consonants and vowels still plays a crucial expressive musical role, as various articulations do in instrumental works



But at the same time, I would still double down on this point, and further argue that there's more power and expressiveness in the human voice than can be pinned down to a text, and which can - very partially, and tentatively - and yet significantly - be captured at least by best in class sample libraries.

But which I mean that there's content and *meaning* imbued in the human voice and what it can convey in music, even without understanding the precise text.

When Rigoletto rails against the "Vile and Damnable Race of Courtiers", you don't really need a full transcription of the libretto to get the gist of what he's on about. And the emotion of that he's on about is far more important that the precision text, which would be hard to communicate do with a bassoon or even a cello. And which was, in any event, massively watered down by censors at the time.

But perhaps more to the point, even in untranslated Italian, the *dramatic* 4 partc ounterpoint of "Bella Figlia Dell'Amore" isn't something that could be realized without the human voice.



And there's quite a lot that that this conveys, even absent translation. In fact, I think that the depts of human drama expressed here is quite profound, entirely transcending the liberal plot of any one single opera, or the specifics of any one libretto. 

Not that Verdi could be remotely mocked up with any existing libraries either of course. 

But I would still amplify that this "patterning of consonants and vowels", even within the capacities of existing libraries, is a part of a much larger power of signification evoked by the presence of the human voice and the musicalities it invokes.


Similarly, when I listen to Pärt, I have a pretty good sense of the themes that he writes about. And so, like Rigoletto, even absence any precision in understanding the Estonian, his music somehow manages to communicate not just the affect, but the content of the text, perhaps even in a more powerful way that a simple translation would on it's own.




Casiquire said:


> I would like technology to keep pushing in the direction of accommodating actual choral writing. At the moment, our libraries fall short


But yeah, this too.


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## Evans (Mar 5, 2022)

paulmatthew said:


> Stefano jamming out with Chorus, Atlantis, Elements and Metropolis Ark!



Now that's fucking cool.


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## dcoscina (Mar 5, 2022)

I got a review copy and I think it’s fabulous. Audio Imperia is really my go to for cinematic orchestral sounds


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## Laurin Lenschow (Mar 6, 2022)

Here is the first (very rough) sketch I did with Chorus:




I'm really looking forward to integrating this library into my template and to use it in my pieces - it is tons of fun to play and has the consistent high quality I've come to expect from Audio Imperia 
(And possibly also from Performance Samples - I don't own any other Performance Samples libraries yet)


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## VVEremita (Mar 7, 2022)

A question for those who already have it: What happens if I play a chord with the slow syllables patch and then proceed to change one single note of that chord? Will it retrigger the syllable for that note or trigger the next syllable? Or are there other functionalities?

I am asking because some choirs have clever solutions for that situation. Storm Choir Ultimate allows for legato transitions when the sustain pedal is pressed while a syllable-chord is ringing. If the choir sings a "BEEHH" syllable (B-Attack and holding EEHH) and I press the sustain pedal and change notes, there will be scripted EHH-legato transitions. I really like that functionality. It allows for BEEHH(syllable)-EEHH(legato)-EHHH(legato) phrasing.

Dominus can produce similar results. 

Thanks.


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## DANIELE (Mar 7, 2022)

Does someone know how much the intro price will last?


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## Peros (Mar 7, 2022)

DANIELE said:


> Do someone knows how much the intro price will last?


2nd April - according to the FB Post


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## Lassi Tani (Mar 7, 2022)

Why do I feel that Ark 1 choirs still sound better and more realistic than this? This is just a hunch though after listening to the walkthroughs and demos.


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## Trash Panda (Mar 7, 2022)

VVEremita said:


> A question for those who already have it: What happens if I play a chord with the slow syllables patch and then proceed to change one single note of that chord? Will it retrigger the syllable for that note or trigger the next syllable? Or are there other functionalities?
> 
> I am asking because some choirs have clever solutions for that situation. Storm Choir Ultimate allows for legato transitions when the sustain pedal is pressed while a syllable-chord is ringing. If the choir sings a "BEEHH" syllable (B-Attack and holding EEHH) and I press the sustain pedal and change notes, there will be scripted EHH-legato transitions. I really like that functionality. It allows for BEEHH(syllable)-EEHH(legato)-EHHH(legato) phrasing.
> 
> ...


If you play a new note before ending the old note, the same syllable is triggered.



Lassi Tani said:


> Why do I feel that Ark 1 choirs still sound better and more realistic than this? This is just a hunch though after listening to the walkthroughs and demos.


Negative, but if that helps you save your money, feel free to tell yourself that.


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## Robert_G (Mar 7, 2022)

No polyphonic legato? Or am I missing something?


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## Trash Panda (Mar 7, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> No polyphonic legato? Or am I missing something?


It's under the Advanced tab.


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## Robert_G (Mar 7, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> It's under the Advanced tab.



Well crap....you weren't supposed to find that....


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## Zanshin (Mar 7, 2022)

The more time I spend with Chorus I feel like it's an instant classic. Very inspiring to play, it covers the mid to high energy stuff really well.


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## Evans (Mar 7, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> The more time I spend with Chorus I feel like it's an instant classic. Very inspiring to play, it covers the mid to high energy stuff really well.


I caved. It's ridiculously fun and intuitive to tap the sustain pedal to trigger a new syllable. And low dynamics are incredible for these slow syllables.


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## Zanshin (Mar 7, 2022)

Evans said:


> I caved. It's ridiculously fun and intuitive to tap the sustain pedal to trigger a new syllable. And low dynamics are incredible for these slow syllables.


I just moved and I have no idea where my sustain pedal is lol. I'm excited to try that out


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 7, 2022)

Curious if anybody will do a comparison with Strezov / Oceania / Hollywood Choirs. They seem to play in the same general space.


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## Robert_G (Mar 7, 2022)

If this was a SATB choir with polyphonic legato it would have been an instabuy. 
1. As I recently found out it DOES have polyphonic legato.
2. Wondering if the not having SATB is enough for me to put a pause on the GAS.

I notice that it seems to have 3 playing styles.
Can anyone confirm it will do Epic LOTR style music as well as soft church choir type music? Has anyone tried Gregorian style at all?


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## Casiquire (Mar 7, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> If this was a SATB choir with polyphonic legato it would have been an instabuy.
> 1. As I recently found out it DOES have polyphonic legato.
> 2. Wondering if the not having SATB is enough for me to put a pause on the GAS.
> 
> ...


I agree, we need way more true SATB.


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## fudge (Mar 9, 2022)

I have a bit of a newcomer question. Chorus is my first fully dedicated choir library. The only other library that includes voices I have is Albion Solstice. Comparing the two, I notice how much more intimate and delicate Solstice sounds. My best guess would be the difference comes from the number of singers? If I was looking for a very intimate sound, which library would you recommend? Is that the benefit of a library with SATB sections?
And don't get me wrong, Chorus can still be intimate. Sometimes though I'm looking for that not-quite-solo-voice, but also not 24 singers low dynamics, but something in between sound. If that makes sense.


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## VVEremita (Mar 9, 2022)

Maybe this one:









Spitfire Audio — Eric Whitacre Choir


Eric Whitacre Choir is a choir that captures the breathtaking range of our most personal musical instrument, crafted to add depth, beauty, grit, and emotion.




www.spitfireaudio.com





22 singers in total, SATB, so less than half of Chorus (which has 24 per section, split into male and female) and can roughly be divided by four. Definitely less dramatic/opulent timbre, more modern and restrained. 

The human voice transports so much emotion. Each Choir library goes with one type of aesthetic. What you hear in the demos is a good indicator of what a library will be able to do (and what not). It is not only about size, but about timbre and aesthetical intent. Yet, size plays an important role.


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## Evans (Mar 9, 2022)

While it's an odd showcase (just some shorts), this is what the different mic options sound like in EWC (to dial in that sound a bit):


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## Juulu (Mar 9, 2022)

I asked this question in the announcement thread, but I guess it was the wrong place. I was just curious, does anyone know if you're able to set a cc to tighten the length/release of the energetic syllables (or even the normal shorts)?


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## Trash Panda (Mar 9, 2022)

Juulu said:


> I asked this question in the announcement thread, but I guess it was the wrong place. I was just curious, does anyone know if you're able to set a cc to tighten the length/release of the energetic syllables (or even the normal shorts)?


It doesn't look like the envelope controls are exposed in the syllable patches.


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## fudge (Mar 9, 2022)

VVEremita said:


> Maybe this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was hoping noone would suggest EWC, because that current sale looks quite tempting


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 9, 2022)

It is interesting that there seems to be more interest in a solo vocal library (Ethera Atlantis) than this full fledged choir library judging by posts here and YT videos. Sign of the times? Changing preferences? Saturated choir market?


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## Futchibon (Mar 9, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It is interesting that there seems to be more interest in a solo vocal library (Ethera Atlantis) than this full fledged choir library judging by posts here and YT videos. Sign of the times?


Price!


ALittleNightMusic said:


> Changing preferences?


Price!


ALittleNightMusic said:


> Saturated choir market?


Price!

At $49, Atlantis is underpriced IMO. AMazing value. I'm really enjoying Chorus but it's a much more significant financial outlay.


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## Robert_G (Mar 9, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> Price!
> 
> Price!
> 
> ...


Yeah, same reason Toyota sells more Corollas then they do Supras.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 9, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> Price!
> 
> Price!
> 
> ...


Sure, price - but two very different libraries with a significantly different amount of content. I think there's more than price to this.


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## jbuhler (Mar 9, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> Price!
> 
> Price!
> 
> ...


Yes, and if you own one of the other Ethera’s the price is even less. And Stefano is again breaking interesting new ground. 

Chorus by contrast seems solid, but even on sale it’s not cheap and it’s not clear that it offers enough advantages over other choirs of its type, many of which I already own, for the price. Does it offer improvement over something like the Strezov choirs? (I don’t own any of their choirs.) I’m looking at Storm Choir Ultimate as a point of comparison. SCU has a smaller number of voices in the choir but otherwise it specs out similarly and important to me it also has a set of soloists with syllables. Full price Chorus will be about the same price. The workflow of SCU looks reasonable. 

I’ve listened to all the demos and watched all the official videos for Chorus and many of the reviews and just not finding a sound that seems different enough from what I already have to warrant the cost. It has some definite workflow improvements and the slow syllables are very nice, but are they enough if the sound of the rest of the library just isn’t calling to you? 

It’s a bit surprising here because back when they started dropping teasers for Chorus I thought I’d get it for sure. I budgeted for it as well through all the delays in release. But now that it’s here I find myself underwhelmed. Likely that’s just me but the lack of commentary since the library has been released does seem surprising.


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## Futchibon (Mar 9, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Sure, price - but two very different libraries with a significantly different amount of content. I think there's more than price to this.


The choir market certainly has lots of great options, like the OT ala carte and Strezov choir essentials which are fantastic value. 

There's also the fact that there's a fair bit of similarity between Jaspers Oceania choirs and CHorus. I was blown away by the playability of Oceania so was used to it with CHorus, whereas for the uninitiated it's quite an experience! 

A very good library


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 9, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> A very good library


Certainly seems like it from everything I’ve seen so far. Almost makes me wish I didn’t have Strezov Freya / Wotan and Oceania yet. But given I do, I still await some comparisons - and the possibility of adding Storm Choir instead throws another wrench into the mix.


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## jbuhler (Mar 9, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Certainly seems like it from everything I’ve seen so far. Almost makes me wish I didn’t have Strezov Freya / Wotan and Oceania yet. But given I do, I still await some comparisons - and the possibility of adding Storm Choir instead throws another wrench into the mix.


If I was starting from zero, or only had something a bit more niche like EWC or Dominus, Chorus would be easy to justify. Because it does cover a lot of ground. But it becomes less clear if you already own several basic choirs. And while those other options have definitely drawbacks, I'm not sure Chorus offers enough, the way Storm Choir does with its soloists. So that's kind of where I'm looking now.


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## dunamisstudio (Mar 9, 2022)

So I'm currently looking at getting Chorus before it goes off sale. If I don't make it, I'll get it during Black Friday. I have VOXOS, and Requiem Lite. Would Chorus be a good addition? or another to check out? During Choir conversations, I don't see much Voxos. Thanks.


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## Robo Rivard (Mar 9, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> If I was starting from zero, or only had something a bit more niche like EWC or Dominus, Chorus would be easy to justify. Because it does cover a lot of ground. But it becomes less clear if you already own several basic choirs. And while those other options have definitely drawbacks, I'm not sure Chorus offers enough, the way Storm Choir does with its soloists. So that's kind of where I'm looking now.


I understand your concern. Chorus sits between Storm Choir Ultimate and Freya/Wotan. A foot in the classical choir, and a foot into the epic. I didn't buy Oceania because I wasn't totally satisfied with the tone, and I while I don't know if Chorus can perform at the same speed, I like the sound quite a lot. Chorus is an excellent library, but I understand that musicians can own similar products after years and years of compulsive gear acquisition.


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## Mike Fox (Mar 9, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, and if you own one of the other Ethera’s the price is even less. And Stefano is again breaking interesting new ground.
> 
> Chorus by contrast seems solid, but even on sale it’s not cheap and it’s not clear that it offers enough advantages over other choirs of its type, many of which I already own, for the price. Does it offer improvement over something like the Strezov choirs? (I don’t own any of their choirs.) I’m looking at Storm Choir Ultimate as a point of comparison. SCU has a smaller number of voices in the choir but otherwise it specs out similarly and important to me it also has a set of soloists with syllables. Full price Chorus will be about the same price. The workflow of SCU looks reasonable.
> 
> ...


I’m also hesitant to buy it, but the biggest selling point for me is AI’s programming and playability, which is always just top shelf. 

Of course the sound is excellent, but combine that with near flawless playability, and it might just make it worth it. 

Btw, i have waaaay too many choir libs as it is, which is another reason I haven’t pulled the tigger just yet.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 9, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> If I was starting from zero, or only had something a bit more niche like EWC or Dominus, Chorus would be easy to justify. Because it does cover a lot of ground. But it becomes less clear if you already own several basic choirs. And while those other options have definitely drawbacks, I'm not sure Chorus offers enough, the way Storm Choir does with its soloists. So that's kind of where I'm looking now.


Indeed - and why I’ve thought that maybe a more unique library (tonally) would be a better addition for me - like Dominus or Tallin (I have EWC).


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## jbuhler (Mar 9, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> I’m also hesitant to buy it, but the biggest selling point for me is AI’s programming and playability, which is always just top shelf.
> 
> Of course the sound is excellent, but combine that with near flawless playability, and it might just make it worth it.
> 
> Btw, i have waaaay too many choir libs as it is, which is another reason I haven’t pulled the tigger just yet.


I also have a lot of choirs, but I don't have any of the Strezov choirs. I also don't have any Audio Imperia libraries—Chorus is really the first library they've offered that has appealed to me at all aside from the voice from Jaeger. So I'd be interested in a comparison between Chorus and SCU. I do own both Oceania choirs and Vista, so have a decent sense of how Jasper scripts his libraries.


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## Evans (Mar 10, 2022)

Robo Rivard said:


> Chorus sits between Storm Choir Ultimate and Freya/Wotan


This was my initial impression, but I think Chorus does soft/silky far "better" than (that is, quite differently from) Freyja and Wotan. It seems to get softer in dynamics and the Strezov choirs (which are great) never quite seem to lose a fairly heavy vibrato by comparison.

Check out Daniel James's video on Twitch about Chorus (it's not on YouTube yet). He starts playing the slow syllables at around the six-minute mark:



16m24s is another great time to jump to. The whole first half-hour seems to be a great tutorial on Chorus. Paraphrasing one quote from the stream, "Before today, you had to choose between big sound or small sound. Now you've got both in one product."


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## Evans (Mar 10, 2022)

That video is now on YouTube


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## pcohen12 (Mar 11, 2022)

Apologies if this has been addressed already: for the syllable articulations, do syllables change on every note no matter what? Or is it possible to do melisma - i.e. hold the vowel of a syllable out over multiple notes before changing?


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## jeremiahpena (Mar 11, 2022)

pcohen12 said:


> Apologies if this has been addressed already: for the syllable articulations, do syllables change on every note no matter what? Or is it possible to do melisma - i.e. hold the vowel of a syllable out over multiple notes before changing?


You can prevent the syllable from changing by overlapping the notes. But you still get the attack of each syllable so it only really sounds right if it's a syllable without a prominent consonant.


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## pcohen12 (Mar 11, 2022)

jeremiahpena said:


> You can prevent the syllable from changing by overlapping the notes. But you still get the attack of each syllable so it only really sounds right if it's a syllable without a prominent consonant.


Got it. I suppose one might be able to stitch together the above functionality by combining fah/lah/rah syllables with the ah legato, for example, but definitely not ideal. Thank you for confirming!


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## Scamper (Mar 11, 2022)

A direct comparison with Wotan/Freyja would be great to hear.
If anybody with Chorus is willing to do a quick demo with MIDI, I'd be up to translate it to Wotan/Freyja (or the other way round).


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## Kony (Mar 11, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> which is another reason I haven’t pulled the tigger just yet


Err, say what?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 11, 2022)

Scamper said:


> A direct comparison with Wotan/Freyja would be great to hear.
> If anybody with Chorus is willing to do a quick demo with MIDI, I'd be up to translate it to Wotan/Freyja (or the other way round).


That would be great. I was playing around with Wotan and Freyja compared to the walkthrough video - and sort of preferred the AI Chorus's tone. I think Hollywood Choirs is a bit more comparable but then it doesn't have particularly good legato. Wotan and Freyja do have a pretty powerful syllable builder where you can morph between syllables and adjust attack / release / sample start per syllable.


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## Quantum Leap (Mar 11, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> In my opinion, the EW Hollywood Choirs word builder is untouched in terms of what it offers - totally free form lyrics. The output won’t fool anybody into thinking that it is a real choir if you are listening to it solo or prominently in a mix, but used right, it has unmatched flexibility. Like all things, it is how you use them.


This new AI choir sounds really great.

Hollywood Choirs does some things really well, and doesn’t do others well or at all. Hollywood Choirs is very dynamic, it goes form very soft non vibrato all the way to FFF vibrato. The word builder is incredibly effective as unlimited giberish choir creator that can feel like German, Latin, English, Italian, elvish etc.. IMO it does bread and butter really well. Legato is not the focus. Look elsewhere for that. Huge staccato duel of the fates is not the focus. look elsewhere for that, but that doesn’t exist imo. Maybe this new library does it? I don’t know.


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## Scamper (Mar 12, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> That would be great. I was playing around with Wotan and Freyja compared to the walkthrough video - and sort of preferred the AI Chorus's tone. I think Hollywood Choirs is a bit more comparable but then it doesn't have particularly good legato. Wotan and Freyja do have a pretty powerful syllable builder where you can morph between syllables and adjust attack / release / sample start per syllable.


Same, I also played some Wotan/Freyja to videos of Chorus and think in many ways, they're quite similar. Similar features, dynamic range and sound of the choir itself.
In parts, I also prefer the tone of Chorus, the syllables seem snappier, you get more articulations and there are more mic options. Wotan/Freyja on the other hand has SATB, easy to use poly legato (not sure how good this is in Chorus), in parts I prefer the lower dynamics and it's more lightweight at 26GB compared to 70GB of Chorus.

Having Wotan/Freyja, I don't feel the need to get Chorus, but between the two it's a tough choice.


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## Gil (Mar 13, 2022)

Quantum Leap said:


> Huge staccato duel of the fates is not the focus.


Hello,
Some tried it and the result is quite cool 



Regards,
Gil.


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## Mike Fox (Mar 13, 2022)

The polyphonic legato in Strezov choirs (and Afflatus, for that matter) is stupid good. Curious how Chorus handles that.


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## szczaw (Mar 13, 2022)

Quantum Leap said:


> This new AI choir sounds really great.
> 
> Hollywood Choirs does some things really well, and doesn’t do others well or at all. Hollywood Choirs is very dynamic, it goes form very soft non vibrato all the way to FFF vibrato. The word builder is incredibly effective as unlimited giberish choir creator that can feel like German, Latin, English, Italian, elvish etc.. IMO it does bread and butter really well. Legato is not the focus. Look elsewhere for that. Huge staccato duel of the fates is not the focus. look elsewhere for that, but that doesn’t exist imo. Maybe this new library does it? I don’t know.


I used HC to put together Latin and English vocals. The resulting choir is good enough to be used in the background with real singer at the front.


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## audioimperia (Mar 13, 2022)

Chorus can do a pretty convincing Duel of the Fates (done by Jean-Gabriel Raynaud)


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 13, 2022)

audioimperia said:


> Chorus can do a pretty convincing Duel of the Fates (done by Jean-Gabriel Raynaud)




Is there a way in Chorus to shorten notes? Like the last two notes of this example should be much shorter and quicker. An ADSR option per syllable would be pretty handy too.


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## Scamper (Mar 13, 2022)

For comparison, a very quick and dirty "Duel of the Fates" version with Wotan and Freyja.

View attachment Strezov-DuelOfFates.mp3


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 13, 2022)

Love to hear the comparisons - I think Hollywood Choirs really stands out to me though. Having that word builder flexibility just makes it sounds dynamic, as each note is sung differently with a lot of character.


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## Mike Fox (Mar 13, 2022)

Scamper said:


> For comparison, a very quick and dirty "Duel of the Fates" version with Wotan and Freyja.
> 
> View attachment Strezov-DuelOfFates.mp3


Sounds great! Which patches did you use?


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## Scamper (Mar 13, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Sounds great! Which patches did you use?


I just used the performance patches for Freyja and Wotan. If you use the SATB patches and fiddle around with the syllables, it would be better.


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## Mike Fox (Mar 13, 2022)

Scamper said:


> I just used the performance patches for Freyja and Wotan. If you use the SATB patches and fiddle around with the syllables, it would be better.


Yeah, the performance patches are awesome for instant gratification, though they do seem to take a little bit of hit in terms of detail.


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## FireGS (Mar 13, 2022)

Gotta be honest, none of the posted Duel of the Fates sound even close.

What I'm hearing:

Ko----- rah, Mah----- tah, Ko---- rah, Rah----tah----mah

What it should be:

Kor-ah, Mah-tah, Kor-ah, Rah-tah-mah

Just listen.


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## audioimperia (Mar 13, 2022)

FireGS said:


> Gotta be honest, none of the posted Duel of the Fates sound even close.
> 
> What I'm hearing:
> 
> ...



Well, we didn't record any of those Sanskrit syllables that Williams used so of course it won't sound exactly like the original haha xD

I personally feel that the timbre in Chorus comes really close though and I was very impressed with Jean-Gabriel's Duel of the Fates attempt (using Chorus), which he did in like 10min. He and Blakus both told me that Chorus is their new go-to choir and as some of you might know they both do quite a lot of Star Wars related music. Jean-Gabriel and his writing partner Cedric for example just did the music for the Obi-Wan teaser (they didn't have Chorus at the time, what you're hearing in the teaser trailer is the original recordings from Duel of the Fates and then past 0:46 it's Oceania I and II).


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## JGRaynaud (Mar 13, 2022)

FireGS said:


> Gotta be honest, none of the posted Duel of the Fates sound even close.
> 
> What I'm hearing:
> 
> ...


To be honest I think I did that in 5 minutes and not even in 10. It was just a test for fun to test the tone more than the articulations (and that's what led me to make my demo in a Williams style afterwards). I guess I could polish the way it's played. Also it worth noticing that since it was just for fun and not for demo purpose I didn't even match the tempo of the original cue so the way they sing is slower. It reinforces the feeling of separated syllabes for sure.


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## FireGS (Mar 14, 2022)

It's not specifically about the spoken syllables, it's the rather large gap between them. It doesn't sound like it's flowing enough between them compared to the original performance.

The samples could even be saying "poop-hole", it doesn't matter, the problem is that there's too big a disconnect between them.


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## yellow_lupine (Mar 14, 2022)

I am noticing a strange amount of "highs", particularly in the Modern and Scott Smith mixes.
Seems like an hiss, can anyone else hear such a thing?


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## CT (Mar 14, 2022)

Here's a quick attempt with Chorus, moving some of the energetic syllables around to mimic the original Sanskrit. It's ok but you lose some of (what I assume is) the natural recorded motion from one syllable to another when you alter their order. For 99% of uses leaving them as is will be fine, I don't think most of us are in the profession of specifically mimicking this excerpt as originally phonetically heard. 

View attachment greatduel.mp3


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## FireGS (Mar 14, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Here's a quick attempt with Chorus, moving some of the energetic syllables around to mimic the original Sanskrit. It's ok but you lose some of (what I assume is) the natural recorded motion from one syllable to another when you alter their order. For 99% of uses leaving them as is will be fine, I don't think most of us are in the profession of specifically mimicking this excerpt as originally phonetically heard.
> 
> View attachment greatduel.mp3


K, this is MUCH closer. *much*


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## FireGS (Mar 14, 2022)

JGRaynaud said:


> To be honest I think I did that in 5 minutes and not even in 10. It was just a test for fun to test the tone more than the articulations (and that's what led me to make my demo in a Williams style afterwards). I guess I could polish the way it's played. Also it worth noticing that since it was just for fun and not for demo purpose I didn't even match the tempo of the original cue so the way they sing is slower. It reinforces the feeling of separated syllabes for sure.


For me, personally, tone and performance are inseparable, and that's why I was being harsh on the demos posted. I suppose I'd rather have crappier tone with a good performance than the other way around if I had to choose.


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## Quantum Leap (Mar 14, 2022)

Gil said:


> Hello,
> Some tried it and the result is quite cool
> 
> 
> ...



yes that part is fine. You can hear the sound quality of the choir. That’s bread and butter. The next section is the one I was talking about. The staccato stuff. Hollywood Choirs can’t do that stuff well…..yet.


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## JGRaynaud (Mar 18, 2022)

FireGS said:


> For me, personally, tone and performance are inseparable, and that's why I was being harsh on the demos posted. I suppose I'd rather have crappier tone with a good performance than the other way around if I had to choose.


Yes I understand that. My point was just that this was not made for demo purpose at all when I sent this to Jan so I didn't really work on the programming much. It was really just an early test of the library for fun made in 5 minutes.


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## DANIELE (Mar 18, 2022)

Quantum Leap said:


> yes that part is fine. You can hear the sound quality of the choir. That’s bread and butter. The next section is the one I was talking about. The staccato stuff. Hollywood Choirs can’t do that stuff well…..yet.


The problem with Holliwood Choirs (which I have) is the programming. You can do a lot of things but what is missing is some kind of deeper control to a certain degree.

You have a CC for starting every phrase from start but you don't have the option to write some kind of KS control in between the phrase, this is a problem when you loop certain parts of your track.
I also wrote to the developers proposing this kind of update.

The UI also has some problems, if I mistakenly hit space in a middle of a syllabe I loose all the fine tuning and settings.

Just a little bit more control and a better UI would be great for HW.

About AI Chorus I'm thinking about buying it or not. I'm just asking myself if it is useful for my purposes. I have both Oceania I and II and I love them, just this could be a good reason to buy it.
Lately I used 8DIO Lacrimosa a lot, I love the number of syllabes and the flexibility it has but I still have to load more patches to get legatos, sustains, marcatos and staccatos. Here it seems all in one patch, a thing I love to have.


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## SvenE (Mar 18, 2022)

FireGS said:


> Gotta be honest, none of the posted Duel of the Fates sound even close.
> 
> What I'm hearing:
> 
> ...



Interesting... but I hear something else


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## BasariStudios (Mar 18, 2022)

Quantum Leap said:


> Hollywood Choirs can’t do that stuff well…..yet.


That is mostly the only problem i have with buying HC now, the Staccatos.


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## aelwyn (Mar 18, 2022)

SvenE said:


> Interesting... but I hear something else



I laughed entirely too hard at this.


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## muziksculp (Mar 18, 2022)

Quantum Leap said:


> The staccato stuff. Hollywood Choirs can’t do that stuff well…..yet.


Hmmm....I'm guessing this means we can expect some new improvements to Hollywood Choirs. 

I love what Hollywood Choirs offers, but any additional improvements to the Stacc. and Legato would be awesome. 

Thanks.


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## Trash Panda (Mar 18, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Hmmm....I'm guessing this means we can expect some new improvements to Hollywood Choirs.
> 
> I love what Hollywood Choirs offers, but any additional improvements to the Stacc. and Legato would be awesome.
> 
> Thanks.


@Quantum Leap opened Pandora's Box. Now he will be hunted by @muziksculp until a Hollywood Choirs update is released for staccato and legato improvements.


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## Quantum Leap (Mar 19, 2022)

Won’t be doing any legato improvements. Plenty of that around. It’s the staccato that I want to work on at some point.


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## muziksculp (Mar 19, 2022)

Quantum Leap said:


> Won’t be doing any legato improvements. Plenty of that around. It’s the staccato that I want to work on at some point.


Any improvements to Hollywood Choirs will be wonderful and very appreciated. (Thanks in advance) 

I Love using Hollywood Choirs, especially the Wordbuilder, it is so ahead of many other WB options on the market, even in 2022.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 24, 2022)

For those that have Chorus and Dominus, how do they compare? Word building, legato, uniqueness (if you have other choirs like Strezov)? Both are on sale right now.


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## Futchibon (Mar 25, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> For those that have Chorus and Dominus, how do they compare? Word building, legato, uniqueness (if you have other choirs like Strezov)? Both are on sale right now.


I have Dominus 1 and Chorus. DJ in his review said that Chorus would replace Dominus Pro and Oceania. I agree with Oceania, as it it similar to Chorus, but Dominus has a unique sound that I still value, so it will sit alongside of Chorus. Dominus Pro hasn't been discounted much compared to the original Dominus, which is strange, but I think it will in the future as Chorus has gained almost universally positive reviews, and rightly so.

Also check out the Tallin choirs, which can be bought ala carte, and Insolidus and Silka from 8Dio, which are often on sale, for great emotional choir vsts


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 25, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> I have Dominus 1 and Chorus. DJ in his review said that Chorus would replace Dominus Pro and Oceania. I agree with Oceania, as it it similar to Chorus, but Dominus has a unique sound that I still value, so it will sit alongside of Chorus. Dominus Pro hasn't been discounted much compared to the original Dominus, which is strange, but I think it will in the future as Chorus has gained almost universally positive reviews, and rightly so.
> 
> Also check out the Tallin choirs, which can be bought ala carte, and Insolidus and Silka from 8Dio, which are often on sale, for great emotional choir vsts



I was only considering Dominus standard for now (Pro is very expensive), but like you, thought it had a pretty unique sound. Tallin is another one but seems much more basic and is $170 to buy the male and female choirs standalone - which is nearly the price of Dominus right now. Storm Choir is also apparently on sale (I own Freya and Wotan) - I wonder if that would also be better than Chorus for doing that specific thing. More detailed versions of each choral type while Chorus is more of a jack of all trades master of none type of thing?


----------



## Evans (Mar 25, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Chorus is more of a jack of all trades master of none type of thing?


I think this does Chorus a disservice. Daniel James had a great video on it a couple of weeks ago, and it seems to be stellar for loud/shouty _and_ the slow syllables.

... as long as you don't need it to sing Jingle Bells and are okay with gibberish.


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## ism (Mar 25, 2022)

My sense is that Chorus is a kind of dual to EWC here.

Both have 3 dynamic layers. Each represent a major opening of expressive space from previous generations of libraries with only two layers. Chorus focuses on the louder shouty stuff, but with real capacity to dip meaningfully into the softer. EWC focus on the quieter stuff, but with real capacity to dip meaningfully into the louder.

So there's meaningful overlap where Chorus can do softer and EWC can do louder. But the real strengths of each remain in the core dynamics they were designed for.

Not simply about dynamics though. There's a lot of nuances of performance and engineering decisions that makes each so brilliant within their own sweet spots.


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## dunamisstudio (Mar 25, 2022)

I have Voxos, Men of the North and Requiem Light.

I've been looking at getting Chorus since it's a good all around library. Plus I already have lot of Audio Imperia stuff.

I havent seen too much chatter on Voxos so I assume it sucks or too expensive. I got it half off before I even joined here.

So would Chorus be a good choice or pick up Dominus to cover slow, soft voices or wait til I can afford Strezov Bundle?

Again I dont use much Choir but be good to have it


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## Trash Panda (Mar 25, 2022)

ism said:


> My sense is that Chorus is a kind of dual to EWC here.
> 
> Both have 3 dynamic layers. Each represent a major opening of expressive space from previous generations of libraries with only two layers. Chorus focuses on the louder shouty stuff, but with real capacity to dip meaningfully into the softer. EWC focus on the quieter stuff, but with real capacity to dip meaningfully into the louder.
> 
> ...


Are you speaking from experience with Chorus or basing this off what you found online? Chorus does soft _really, really_ well. Not "dipping meaningfully" into soft, but very well.


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## ism (Mar 25, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Are you speaking from experience with Chorus or basing this off what you found online? Chorus does soft _really, really_ well. Not "dipping meaningfully" into soft, but very well.


There's different kinds of soft.


----------



## moon (Mar 25, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> I have Voxos, Men of the North and Requiem Light.
> 
> I've been looking at getting Chorus since it's a good all around library. Plus I already have lot of Audio Imperia stuff.
> 
> ...


I still think Voxos wins as far as tone.


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## Trash Panda (Mar 25, 2022)

ism said:


> There's different kinds of soft.


If you were to say EWC can do Gregorian chant-like passages like the Halo theme better than Chorus, that would be a legit opinion and one that I could agree with.

To say Chorus focuses on loud, shouty stuff and only "dips" into the softer side shows that you have no idea what you're talking about and clearly have not heard all the library can do.


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## Cheezus (Mar 25, 2022)

I kinda wish libraries with multiple dynamic layers would include patches that only have one of the three dynamics where mod wheel just controls volume and filtering. I think I would actually use those more often than I would use the multi-layered cross fading patches.

I’m kinda not a fan of real time crossfades for dynamics, especially when the backend is locked up so I can’t look at where the “sweet spots” are on the mod wheel for each layer.


----------



## ism (Mar 25, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> If you were to say EWC can do Gregorian chant-like passages like the Halo theme better than Chorus, that would be a legit opinion and one that I could agree with.
> 
> To say Chorus focuses on loud, shouty stuff and only "dips" into the softer side shows that you have no idea what you're talking about and clearly have not heard all the library can do.



Well, you're of course right that Chorus obviously can sound really, really good at soft dyanmics. I was trying making a point specific to the design of 3-dyanmic layers and how EWC and Chorus contrast. 

Which is the sort of thing I find interesting - and hey, I'm working through some ideas here, so sure, the underlying idea could certainly be clarified further and better contextualized. So there's a genuinely interesting conversation to be had here, and I'm open to critique ...


Except that for one thing, I think Chorus is much better suited to your kind of music than EWC - loud and soft and so that's pretty much that.

And for another, clearly - and predictably - you're not asking in good faith but just looking to set up yet another ad hominem.




Trash Panda said:


> Feel free to respond with a dismissive retort or a long, rambling rant full of meaningless $5 words like you normally do, but the fact remains that you're talking out of your ass on this subject.


So look, let's just accept that we just have different musical tastes. I do, actually, completely respect yours, and respect that they're simply different from mine, and respect that the perspective you therefore bring is completely valid, and respect that therefore different qualities of different libraries server the kind of musicality you care about in different ways from how they serve me. 

But you clearly, and explicitly, don't value anything I have to say, to the point of denying that the kind of musicality I care about even exists. And that's completely fine, there's no reason you should. But that doesn't mean that these spaces don't exit. 

I don't know the Halo reference (it sounds interesting, maybe I'll look it up), but there's a lot more to soft choral dynamics that Gregorian chant. And I think it's very interesting to consider just what Chorus brings to this space, and how it compares and contrasts with the likes of EWC, Dominus, Insolidus, Tallinn - and all the richness of musicalities therein. And while theres's no particular reason you should care about any of this this, there's still an interesting conversation to be had here ...

... but I don't seem to be able to even argue the existence of other musicalities without constantly pissing you off. 

So why don't you just put me on ignore and save everyone's time?


----------



## Mike Fox (Mar 25, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> I havent seen too much chatter on Voxos so I assume it sucks or too expensive. I got it half off before I even joined here.


Easily my least favorite choir library.


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## Kony (Mar 25, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> or wait til I can afford Strezov Bundle?


There is actually a whopping 62% discount on the complete Strezov choir bundle at the moment - full price is €1697 and currently on sale for €649 :









CHOIR Collection


The online library for premium sound samples




www.strezov-sampling.com


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 25, 2022)

Cheezus said:


> I kinda wish libraries with multiple dynamic layers would include patches that only have one of the three dynamics where mod wheel just controls volume and filtering. I think I would actually use those more often than I would use the multi-layered cross fading patches.
> 
> I’m kinda not a fan of real time crossfades for dynamics, especially when the backend is locked up so I can’t look at where the “sweet spots” are on the mod wheel for each layer.


This is what VSL has introduced with Timbre Adjust - allows more nuanced control instead of just dynamic crossfades.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 25, 2022)

I would’ve thought by now there would be more direct comparisons between Chorus and other libraries (as we see with every other instrument section). Chorus sounds so good but then also seems somewhat broad in its focus - which is great, especially if you are new to choir libraries. The question becomes what role does it fill if you already have some existing libraries or are considering more focused ones (like Dominus or Storm Choir)?


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## dunamisstudio (Mar 25, 2022)

Kony said:


> There is actually a whopping 62% discount on the complete Strezov choir bundle at the moment - full price is €1697 and currently on sale for €649 :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah that was one I was referring to. But can't do $713 currently.


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## dunamisstudio (Mar 25, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I would’ve thought by now there would be more direct comparisons between Chorus and other libraries (as we see with every other instrument section). Chorus sounds so good but then also seems somewhat broad in its focus - which is great, especially if you are new to choir libraries. The question becomes what role does it fill if you already have some existing libraries or are considering more focused ones (like Dominus or Storm Choir)?


Yeah, I've been waiting on some comparisons.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Mar 26, 2022)

I ended up picking up Dominus (regular) and it is truly beautiful. Such a great tone IMO - and quite unique compared to what you’d find elsewhere. Also the sheer number of syllables makes it really easy to make it generally sound like what you want. This is one of the things that’s always and continues to frustrate me about Strezov - very limited syllables, men and women have different ones, and even the blending / sample start trimming isn’t enough. Perhaps Chorus will be a much more useable replacement and sit nicely alongside Dominus, EW Hollywood, Genesis, and Eric Whitacre - each unique and filling their specific area.


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## Juulu (Mar 27, 2022)

Does anyone here know if the backend of Chorus is locked? I read somewhere else that the releases in syllable patches can't be shortened which I think would help with really fast passages. I'm hoping there would be a way for me to automate that in another way.


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## Trash Panda (Mar 27, 2022)

It is locked.


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## Trash Panda (Mar 27, 2022)

ism said:


> Well, you're of course right that Chorus obviously can sound really, really good at soft dyanmics. I was trying making a point specific to the design of 3-dyanmic layers and how EWC and Chorus contrast.
> 
> Which is the sort of thing I find interesting - and hey, I'm working through some ideas here, so sure, the underlying idea could certainly be clarified further and better contextualized. So there's a genuinely interesting conversation to be had here, and I'm open to critique ...
> 
> ...


Moving this to PM.


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## gamma-ut (Mar 28, 2022)

This thing is heavily scripted. It's entirely possible that digging into the controls will not mess up the scripting per se but render unpredictable or unfortunate results. You've got the situation with the added-"s" on a high-velocity note, for example, which will most likely get divorced from the core syllable if it's shortened outside the script.

I've only just picked up Chorus so have no idea as to the level of control over this bit but it may well be that a little attention to CC#11 will do the job, even if it's a bit laborious or not practical if using something like Sibelius or Dorico.


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## Trash Panda (Mar 28, 2022)

It is true that there is not a way to change the releases with Chorus on syllable patches. The envelope controls that are normally present under the Advance tab are omitted for these.

@audioimperia is that something that could potentially be added in a future update?


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## Casiquire (Mar 28, 2022)

Cheezus said:


> I kinda wish libraries with multiple dynamic layers would include patches that only have one of the three dynamics where mod wheel just controls volume and filtering. I think I would actually use those more often than I would use the multi-layered cross fading patches.
> 
> I’m kinda not a fan of real time crossfades for dynamics, especially when the backend is locked up so I can’t look at where the “sweet spots” are on the mod wheel for each layer.


Pretty much anything Orchestral Tools, at least i can vouch for the kontakt versions' cutoff filter. I haven't messed with the SINE one much


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## dhmusic (Mar 28, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> It is true that there is not a way to change the releases with Chorus on syllable patches. The envelope controls that are normally present under the Advance tab are omitted for these.
> 
> @audioimperia is that something that could potentially be added in a future update?


omg this is an outrage and I demand an NFR pleeeease


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## chrisav (Mar 28, 2022)

dhmusic said:


> omg this is an outrage and I demand an NFR pleeeease


You'll get an NFT and you'll like it


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## yellow_lupine (Mar 29, 2022)

Is it possible to route each mic to separate Kontakt output?


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## Mike Fox (Mar 29, 2022)

I’ve gone ahead and retracted my comment regarding the release tail. 

After speaking with Audio Imperia, it appears that these syllable patches are comprised of certain techniques that actually don’t allow some basic release options. 

Doesn’t surprise me since AI is always venturing into cutting edge territory, especially if it’s for the greater good.


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## audioimperia (Mar 29, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> I’ve gone ahead and retracted my comment regarding the release tail.
> 
> After speaking with Audio Imperia, it appears that these syllable patches are comprised of certain techniques that actually don’t allow some basic release options.
> 
> Doesn’t surprise me since AI is always venturing into cutting edge territory, especially if it’s for the greater good.


Cheers, Mike! 

Yeah, it is worth noting that these patches don’t behave like more common libraries, and have a lot of under the hood functionality to make them work. Many of the techniques we implemented don't exist anywhere else which in turn means that creating these patches often doesn’t allow the conventional features and options, such as shortening releases. Hope that makes sense! 

Having said that, the ADSR feature is indeed something we've discussed internally as a potential addition to the Pyramid engine.


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## Trash Panda (Mar 29, 2022)

yellow_lupine said:


> Is it possible to route each mic to separate Kontakt output?


The individual mics can be routed separately. The mic mixes feed into the same output.


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## Mike Fox (Mar 30, 2022)

Spent some time with Chorus today. This library is a BEAST! 

It might just be the best all around choir library to date. 

Review coming soon!


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## Futchibon (Mar 30, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Spent some time with Chorus today. This library is a BEAST!
> 
> It might just be the best all around choir library to date.
> 
> Review coming soon!


Looking forward to your review, especially how it compares with SCU.


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## Mike Fox (Mar 30, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> Looking forward to your review, especially how it compares with SCU.


I’ll definitely mention how i think Chorus compares with SCU, especially since i think that’s the most direct competitor.


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## Trash Panda (Mar 30, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Spent some time with Chorus today. This library is a BEAST!
> 
> It might just be the best all around choir library to date.
> 
> Review coming soon!


Yes, but can it do Duel of Fates???


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## Juulu (Mar 30, 2022)

So, I decided to take the plunge and buy Chorus, and I absolutely love the sound. For anyone wondering about the shaping of release samples, there is actually a button labaled "tight" that you can set to a CC value to turn on and off. I hadn't seen any reviewers cover this feature but it actually accomplishes what I wanted, making the syllables more abrupt for faster passages.


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## MusicStudent (Mar 30, 2022)

Juulu said:


> So, I decided to take the plunge and buy Chorus, and I absolutely love the sound. For anyone wondering about the shaping of release samples, there is actually a button labaled "tight" that you can set to a CC value to turn on and off. I hadn't seen any reviewers cover this feature but it actually accomplishes what I wanted, making the syllables more abrupt for faster passages.


Thanks for that endorsement. I am sitting with Chorus in the "cart" with my finger on the trigger right now. Today should be the day.


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## Marsen (Mar 30, 2022)

Juulu said:


> So, I decided to take the plunge and buy Chorus, and I absolutely love the sound. For anyone wondering about the shaping of release samples, there is actually a button labaled "tight" that you can set to a CC value to turn on and off. I hadn't seen any reviewers cover this feature but it actually accomplishes what I wanted, making the syllables more abrupt for faster passages.


But the “tight“ is for the attack, not the release.
It just set the start point to 0, missing the transients for a more lively sound.
This helps, to play live into daw, if ì´m not misunderstanding your message here?


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## Juulu (Mar 30, 2022)

Marsen said:


> But the “tight“ is for the attack, not the release.
> It just set the start point to 0, missing the transients for a more lively sound.
> This helps, to play live into daw, if ì´m not misunderstanding your message here?


You are correct in that it is for playability and only shapes the attacks. However, to my ears when playing things in quick succession it sounds better in tight than not. It doesn't really compare to Oceania PB release shaping but it works well enough for me.


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## Juulu (Mar 30, 2022)

I did word my post poorly so sorry if I confused anyone.


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## Mike Fox (Mar 30, 2022)

Yeah, that “Tight” feature is one thing i LOVE about AI libraries.


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## Kony (Mar 30, 2022)

Juulu said:


> I did word my post poorly so sorry if I confused anyone.


Not at all, it was good to know. Thanks for bringing it up!


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## Juulu (Mar 30, 2022)

For anyone interested, here's a snippet of something I was working on today. I took the choir out of context to show how Chorus holds on its own. Overall, I think AI did a pretty good job here. For reference, I'm only using the oh's polyphonic legato and the traditional syllables at the end. It honestly feels like you get 3 libraries in one with Chorus, well worth the money! The second stem is Chorus dry without its internal reverb and the first is Chorus dry with seventh heaven's North Church preset.

North Church:

View attachment Chorus Test Choir Church.mp3


Dry:

View attachment Chorus Test.mp3



Edit: Had them backwards 😅


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## Mike Fox (Apr 10, 2022)

Futchibon said:


> Looking forward to your review, especially how it compares with SCU.


Here it is!



I think i might actually do a comparison video between Chorus and SCU, just because there's SO much to cover.


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## Juulu (Apr 11, 2022)

Is there some sort of patch notes for Chorus? I saw there was an update available and was just curious about possible bugs they fixed.


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## audioimperia (Apr 11, 2022)

Juulu said:


> Is there some sort of patch notes for Chorus? I saw there was an update available and was just curious about possible bugs they fixed.


We moved the multi headers to a different location. We had a couple customers that got confused by the multi header nki patches which by themselves are just empty


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## Mike Fox (Apr 11, 2022)

audioimperia said:


> We had a couple customers that got confused by the multi header nki patches which by themselves are just empty


That would have been me.


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## audioimperia (Apr 11, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> That would have been me.


hahahaha, and a couple others. Totally valid feedback. So we fixed it real quick


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## Juulu (Apr 11, 2022)

audioimperia said:


> hahahaha, and a couple others. Totally valid feedback. So we fixed it real quick


Thanks for the info!


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## dunamisstudio (Apr 11, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> That would have been me.


me too

Also, loved the review. I haven't worked with it enough to have any negative feedback for it. But Chorus, you summed up what I felt about it after watching the videos and hearing the demos. A good all around library that can cover it all. So I bought it.


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## Kingtapir (Apr 13, 2022)

reids said:


> How does Audio Imperia Chorus compare against Strezov Storm Choir Ultimate? Is there a lot of overlap? Would be interested in a large epic sounding choir and that has good legato. If you could only choose one, which would it be? Trying to find out what are the major similarities and differences between these two choir libraries.


I have exactly the same problem man, so hard so decide


Mike Fox said:


> Here it is!
> 
> 
> 
> I think i might actually do a comparison video between Chorus and SCU, just because there's SO much to cover.



Please do a comparison video, that would be INCREDIBLY helpful. And if you dont, please tell some of the differences here, i am so desperate which one to get haha


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## Kingtapir (Apr 13, 2022)

@Mike Fox how long is it approximately gonna take you to make that video? because then i might wait for it before i buy a choir library.also, could you cover the eh and eeh sustains/legatos? i hardly find any sound examples of those, for both libraries scu and chorus


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## Mike Fox (Apr 13, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> @Mike Fox how long is it approximately gonna take you to make that video? because then i might wait for it before i buy a choir library.also, could you cover the eh and eeh sustains/legatos? i hardly find any sound examples of those, for both libraries scu and chorus


I’m currently working on another review, but i should be able to have something next weekend.


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## Getsumen (Apr 13, 2022)

xsubs said:


> What's with the sibilance in this patch? Sounds awful. Is there a setting that is causing this behavior?
> Link:
> 
> 
> Otherwise I like most of what I hear...



They're playing it totally incorrectly is why. Slow syllables are meant to be well, slow. As you can see in that video they are not playing it slow.

Use the traditional syllables for that style.

Anyway, the S is controlled by velocity. They seem to be hitting the keys quite hard which triggers an S on every syllable.

Here's what it should be (12:20)


I haven't watched any of the Sample Library Review video but well, if they missed something like that I don't trust them to show off the library for what it's fully capable of. Watch the AI Content Overview video instead, it's quite comprehensive and it'll give you the best idea of what the lib can do


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 13, 2022)

Getsumen said:


> They're playing it totally incorrectly is why. Slow syllables are meant to be well, slow. As you can see in that video they are not playing it slow.
> 
> Use the traditional syllables for that style.
> 
> ...



Ah yes, YouTubers not understanding how to use a library and thus, making it sound like shit. Should've read the manual first! Though, other folks would have you believe that the instrument should be totally intuitive in every respect - wonder what they would say here.


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## Kingtapir (Apr 14, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> I’m currently working on another review, but i should be able to have something next weekend.


Yo that's fast af, definitely gonna wait then


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## Kingtapir (Apr 24, 2022)

@Mike Fox how are you doing witht he SCU vs Chorus Video?


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## Mike Fox (Apr 24, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> @Mike Fox how are you doing witht he SCU vs Chorus Video?


Hey! I got behind on another review, but you can definitely expect something from me this week, or in a couple days.


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## Trash Panda (Apr 24, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Hey! I got behind on another review, but you can definitely expect something from me this week, or in a couple days.


Will it be another Mortal Kombat style comparison? 😂


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## Mike Fox (Apr 24, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Will it be another Mortal Kombat style comparison? 😂


Ironically, those videos tend to get more views and comments than anything else i do. lol


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## Trash Panda (Apr 24, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Ironically, those videos tend to get more views and comments than anything else i do. lol


It’s because they’re entertaining and unique as far as sample library comparisons go!


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## Mike Fox (Apr 24, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> It’s because they’re entertaining and unique


As opposed to my other videos.


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## Trash Panda (Apr 24, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> As opposed to my other videos.


As opposed to other sample library comparison videos. Your reviews are a good format. They’re a bit more serious and “professional” in delivery. Silly is fun!


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## dunamisstudio (Apr 24, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Will it be another Mortal Kombat style comparison? 😂





Mike Fox said:


> Ironically, those videos tend to get more views and comments than anything else i do. lol





Trash Panda said:


> It’s because they’re entertaining and unique as far as sample library comparisons go!


Do Street Fighter and let Chorus do a Hadouken punch to SCU


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## Mike Fox (Apr 24, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> Do Street Fighter and let Chorus do a Hadouken punch to SCU


Done!!!


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## Kingtapir (Apr 26, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Hey! I got behind on another review, but you can definitely expect something from me this week, or in a couple days.


very cool. and in case you haven't recorded it yet, could cou please cover the eh and eeh sustains in both libraries? that would be so nice xD🙏
​


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## Mike Fox (Apr 27, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> very cool. and in case you haven't recorded it yet, could cou please cover the eh and eeh sustains in both libraries? that would be so nice xD🙏
> ​


Gonna record it today, so i can definitely include those!


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## Mike Fox (Apr 27, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> very cool. and in case you haven't recorded it yet, could cou please cover the eh and eeh sustains in both libraries? that would be so nice xD🙏
> ​


Done!

I didn't stamp anything, but the eh and eeh clips are in the beginning.


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## Kingtapir (Apr 28, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Done!
> 
> I didn't stamp anything, but the eh and eeh clips are in the beginning.



damn, nice review and thanks for covering the eh and eeh! 
I'm still left with 2 questions tho xD
1. can you like "fix" one syllable in chorus? like so it doesn't cycle through the different syllables?
2. I'm more aiming for the super epic stuff so I feel like i'm kinda making a compromise if I get chorus. Would you say SCU is suited a lot better for the very loud stuff? I know this () was made using SCU, do you think Chorus would be capable of sounding similar?


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## Mike Fox (Apr 28, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> damn, nice review and thanks for covering the eh and eeh!
> I'm still left with 2 questions tho xD
> 1. can you like "fix" one syllable in chorus? like so it doesn't cycle through the different syllables?
> 2. I'm more aiming for the super epic stuff so I feel like i'm kinda making a compromise if I get chorus. Would you say SCU is suited a lot better for the very loud stuff? I know this () was made using SCU, do you think Chorus would be capable of sounding similar?



For sure!

Yeah, you can load up any syllables you want in Chorus, even if it's just one.

As far as the epic stuff goes, both libraries excel at this (seriously, SCU isn't any better than Chorus for epic stuff), but the biggest difference is in the tone, because the eq of each library is pretty different. Out of the box, Chorus is much more cutting and present due to the Scott Smith mix, while SCU has a more natural and somewhat muffled tone by comparison. You can get SCU to sound more present just by extending the treble with an eq plugin.

I also believe that Chorus uses a larger choir, so it sounds a smidge bigger to me. But as i mentioned in the video, SCU has Chorus beat when it comes to low end and some detail.

You definitely won't be making any compromises if you get Chorus just for the epic stuff. Plus it has you covered for any dynamics less than FFF. If i had to choose one, it would be Chorus.


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## Evans (Apr 28, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> SCU has Chorus beat when it comes to low end.


Low register not dynamics, yes? SCU and Wotan have that extra _grit_ for those males, for sure.


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## Robert_G (Apr 28, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Done!


You need to be careful with that drink around your equipment💧


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## Mike Fox (Apr 28, 2022)

Evans said:


> Low register not dynamics, yes? SCU and Wotan have that extra _grit_ for those males, for sure.


Actually, no. Dynamics! The low end is much more pronounced in SCU.

Chorus (surprisingly) has SCU beat by like two lower notes (it's like low C vs low D).


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## Mike Fox (Apr 28, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> You need to be careful with that drink around your equipment💧


Haha! Right?!


----------



## Mike Fox (Apr 28, 2022)

Evans said:


> Low register not dynamics, yes? SCU and Wotan have that extra _grit_ for those males, for sure.


I just went back and did a closer A/B test. It actually sounds the dynamics are about the same (SCU i think still has a slight edge), though i think because SCU is a smaller section, you can really hear the detail a lot more in the low end.


View attachment scu vs chorus.mp4


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## Trash Panda (Apr 28, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> I just went back and did a closer A/B test. It actually sounds the dynamics are about the same (SCU i think still has a slight edge), though i think because SCU is a smaller section, you can really hear the detail a lot more in the low end.
> 
> 
> View attachment scu vs chorus.mp4


Cross-posting this from YouTube. 

On the topic of detail, I think the gap is a lot smaller if you use the same microphone setup on Chorus as SCU. The mixed mic options in Chorus seem like they have the close mics turned down quite a bit compared to the SCU mics that had the close mic set at 0 dB. 

SCU still gets more of that guttural vocal fry, but that likely comes down to the technique and the style difference in Slavic choir versus traditional choir. 

Dat SCU low end though.


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## Mike Fox (Apr 28, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Cross-posting this from YouTube.
> 
> On the topic of detail, I think the gap is a lot smaller if you use the same microphone setup on Chorus as SCU. The mixed mic options in Chorus seem like they have the close mics turned down quite a bit compared to the SCU mics that had the close mic set at 0 dB.
> 
> ...


I think you make a great point, so i went ahead and just A/B'd the close mics (no reverb). I think there's still something special going on in the low end of SCU.


View attachment scu vs chorus low end.mp4


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## Trash Panda (Apr 28, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> I think you make a great point, so i went ahead and just A/B'd the close mics (no reverb). I think there's still something special going on in the low end of SCU.
> 
> 
> View attachment scu vs chorus low end.mp4


Yeah. SCU sounds like they have some basso profundo singers thrown into the mix like they did with Wotan.


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## Mike Fox (Apr 28, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Yeah. SCU sounds like they have some basso profundo singers thrown into the mix like they did with Wotan.


Right? There’s something going on there. Sounds beastly and beautiful, whatever it is.


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## fudge (May 11, 2022)

Can someone give me a quick explanation how polyphonic legato works with this library, and what "velocity splits" means in this context? Tried finding a manual, but doesn't seem like Chorus has one.
What I don't understand is under which conditions the held note stops playing. I can't seem to figure it out. At first I thought it was the velocity at which the melody above is played (as in: reaching a certain velocity threshold when playing a second note, the first note stops playing, staying under that threshold will keep the first note), but no matter how soft or hard I'm playing, the held note stops at seemingly random points. But my midi keyboard might also just be trash.


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## gamma-ut (May 11, 2022)

There's a manual in the Documentation folder.



> Polyphonic Legato: On legato articulations, this option allows you to control two independent legato lines by playing notes in a specific velocity range. The Velocity Splits control determines how many lines can be played simultaneously. For instance, with 2 velocity splits, any notes above Velocity 64 trigger one legato line, while notes with a velocity less than 64 trigger a second independent legato line.


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## fudge (May 11, 2022)

gamma-ut said:


> There's a manual in the Documentation folder.


ooh that's my bad. I was looking at Audio Imperia's website, where it's not listed.
So this means my midi keyboard triggers notes above 64 even when I play as soft as I can.


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## Sarah Mancuso (May 11, 2022)

fudge said:


> ooh that's my bad. I was looking at Audio Imperia's website, where it's not listed.
> So this means my midi keyboard triggers notes above 64 even when I play as soft as I can.


It means that if you are using two legato voices on the same track, you would want to use the 1-63 range for voice 1 and the 64-127 range for voice 2. I think this is something you'd need to set up in the sequencer rather than on the keyboard to ensure it's consistent.


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## Trash Panda (May 11, 2022)

fudge said:


> ooh that's my bad. I was looking at Audio Imperia's website, where it's not listed.
> So this means my midi keyboard triggers notes above 64 even when I play as soft as I can.


Are you only changing one note in a chord or changing all at the same time? I think the polyphonic legato only allows for simultaneous note changes, not holding down a pedal note with a melody over it.


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## Mike Fox (May 11, 2022)

This is probably my only real gripe about Chorus. I really wish the poly legato was more intuitive, and just played like a regular sustains patch.


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## fudge (May 11, 2022)

Sarah Mancuso said:


> I think this is something you'd need to set up in the sequencer rather than on the keyboard to ensure it's consistent.


That's what I figured aswell. I'll just have to go into the midi editor and set the correct velocities manually.


Trash Panda said:


> Are you only changing one note in a chord or changing all at the same time? I think the polyphonic legato only allows for simultaneous note changes, not holding down a pedal note with a melody over it.


I was just fiddling around with a bass note and a melody on top. As in holding down G and playing the scale in the upper register (note by note). Sometimes it works beautifully for a while and then one note cancels my G. I am assuming this is me overstepping the velocity threshold (I have a cheap Alesis midi keyboard, it's not very precise).


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## Kingtapir (May 18, 2022)

@Mike Fox would you say SCU has a stronger vibrato than Chorus? Could you maybe record a huge chord like this in the combined men and women patches in both choirs with max dynamics and vibrato? 
That would be incredibly helpful!


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## Mike Fox (May 18, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> @Mike Fox would you say SCU has a stronger vibrato than Chorus? Could you maybe record a huge chord like this in the combined men and women patches in both choirs with max dynamics and vibrato?
> That would be incredibly helpful!


I automatically want to say that SCU has the strongest vibrato out there, because it was intentionally designed to have an exaggerated vibrato, and I don’t recall the vibrato in Chorus ever being that present. 

But i should have some time today to do a quick A/B test with that chord.


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## Kingtapir (May 18, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> I automatically want to say that SCU has the strongest vibrato out there, because it was intentionally designed to have an exaggerated vibrato, and I don’t recall the vibrato in Chorus ever being that present.
> 
> But i should have some time today to do a quick A/B test with that chord.


Thank you! an a/b would be super sick


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## Mike Fox (May 18, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> Thank you! an a/b would be super sick


You got it!

View attachment SCU vs Chorus2.mp4


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## Mike Fox (May 18, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> Thank you! an a/b would be super sick


This A/B test actually surprised me, because it seems like Chorus has just as much vibrato going on (if not a little more) as SCU. 

View attachment SCU vs Chorus3.mp4


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## Kingtapir (May 18, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> This A/B test actually surprised me, because it seems like Chorus has just as much vibrato going on (if not a little more) as SCU.
> 
> View attachment SCU vs Chorus3.mp4


dang that's true


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## mgaewsj (May 18, 2022)

and this a/b reinforces my idea about Chorus being meh (for my taste). It may have many more bells and whistles, arts, dynamics, but soundwise/tonewise it's just... meh. This is just according to my taste obviously. Others (many?) would disagree. 
I am happy I resisted to the intro price


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## Kingtapir (May 18, 2022)

mgaewsj said:


> and this a/b reinforces my idea about Chorus being meh (for my taste). It may have many more bells and whistles, arts, dynamics, but soundwise/tonewise it's just... meh. This is just according to my taste obviously. Others (many?) would disagree.
> I am happy I resisted to the intro price


probably that's because of the scott smith mix, it really has a lot of highend. guess it wouldve sounded different and probably a lot closer to scu if @Mike Fox used the classical mix. but idk


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## Casiquire (May 18, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> This A/B test actually surprised me, because it seems like Chorus has just as much vibrato going on (if not a little more) as SCU.
> 
> View attachment SCU vs Chorus3.mp4


Thanks a lot for doing these. I weirdly prefer the sound and legato of SCU in these demos. It's not as smooth in the legatos, but sounds overall better and maybe more convincing with just a bit of massaging. The Ah vowel in SCU sounds more pure as well, versus Chorus which is kind of an "uhh".


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## Mike Fox (May 18, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> probably that's because of the scott smith mix, it really has a lot of highend. guess it wouldve sounded different and probably a lot closer to scu if @Mike Fox used the classical mix. but idk


You’re spot on. The Modern mix in Chorus is much closer to SCU.


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## Mike Fox (May 18, 2022)

One thing to keep in mind when listening to the Scott Smith mix is that this particular mix has been heavily processed and seems to have been designed to stick out in very loud and busy mixes so that it can cut through, so listening to it in isolation probably won’t have the same effect.

I’ll try to post another example using just the modern mix, as it’s a lot closer to SCU.


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## Trash Panda (May 18, 2022)

It would probably be more apples to apples to activate all mics at 0 dB on Chorus since SCU defaults to that and has no mix mic option.


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## CT (May 18, 2022)

Yeah the two non-classic mixes in Chorus are pretty hyped in certain ways. I much prefer the sound of the "C" mix, or a blend of the individual signals.


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## Kingtapir (May 19, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> One thing to keep in mind when listening to the Scott Smith mix is that this particular mix has been heavily processed and seems to have been designed to stick out in very loud and busy mixes so that it can cut through, so listening to it in isolation probably won’t have the same effect.
> 
> I’ll try to post another example using just the modern mix, as it’s a lot closer to SCU.


that 'd be cool xD


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## Kingtapir (May 19, 2022)

@Mike Fox can you control which syllable you wanna play with your keyboard in both libraries? like c0 for the eh, d0 for ah etc..


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## Kingtapir (May 19, 2022)

god damn this decision is so hard, I watched millions of reviews, was in calls with people who own the libraries, asked quiestions here and I still can't decide. Sometimes i was pretty sure i'll get chorus, then storm choir and now I dont know again. This is like a curse


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## Mike Fox (May 19, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> god damn this decision is so hard, I watched millions of reviews, was in calls with people who own the libraries, asked quiestions here and I still can't decide. Sometimes i was pretty sure i'll get chorus, then storm choir and now I dont know again. This is like a curse


Sounds like you need both!


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## Trash Panda (May 19, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Sounds like you need both!


Always the right answer on VI-C.


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## Kingtapir (May 19, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Sounds like you need both!


yes but money is a thing haha. i'll wait until you did the comparison thing with the normal mix and then i'll decide. idk i think i need that slavonic sound for my music but i can't really imagine how it would sound like with chorus. also I'm not even sure how much more slavonic the storm choir sounds. i need a lot of vibrato and soft stuff isnt really a necessity but would be a frickin cool side effect. i know that storm choir will work for my music 100% but i dont know if chorus would. on the other hand, the playability and the UI of chorus seems so much better. also it's newer. and the staccato seems way better too.


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## Trash Panda (May 19, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> yes but money is a thing haha. i'll wait until you did the comparison thing with the normal mix and then i'll decide. idk i think i need that slavonic sound for my music but i can't really imagine how it would sound like with chorus. also I'm not even sure how much more slavonic the storm choir sounds. i need a lot of vibrato and soft stuff isnt really a necessity but would be a frickin cool side effect. i know that storm choir will work for my music 100% but i dont know if chorus would. on the other hand, the playability and the UI of chorus seems so much better. also it's newer. and the staccato seems way better too.


Here’s another way of looking at it. Chorus is a really strong general purpose choir that can fit into just about any type of piece that isn’t chamber sized or soloists choral music. 

Storm Choir Ultimate is a specialist library that does what it targets to deliver really, really well (loud, molto vibrato epic choir), but maybe only slightly better than Chorus. While it can technically do softer stuff, you’re better served by adding on Wotan and Freyja in addition to cover that part of the spectrum. SCU does have soloists while Chorus does not. 

Only you can decide what aspects are most important for your personal use. May the odds be ever in your favor!


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## Mike Fox (May 19, 2022)

Maybe i should have made my comparison video 2 hours instead of only 1.


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## Kingtapir (May 19, 2022)

Mike Fox said:


> Maybe i should have made my comparison video 2 hours instead of only 1.


even that probably wouldn't have been enough lol. your video was a huge help but also made the decision even harder


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## fudge (May 19, 2022)

I will say don't underestimate the slow syllable patches. You might think you don't need them now, but they sound incredible and are very inspirational. Overall I can say the only thing I'm missing in Chorus are soloists. I am looking for another library to complement Chorus in that regard. However I also have to admit there's something about SCU's sound I personally don't like, so my decision wasn't that hard to make. Now Rhodope 2 on the other hand... 👀


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## Kingtapir (May 21, 2022)

so guys i've made a decision, i've bought storm choir. I liked that slavonic sound a bit more, the solo voices are sick as well and the shout fx could be really useful too (didn't even know about them). Let's hope it was the right decision


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## LostintheBardo (May 29, 2022)

I have Spitfire EWC and really regret buying it because to me it kinda sounds like a choir patch on a cheap digital keyboard. I've been thinking about getting Strezov Freyja and eventually Wotan. I mostly like choir for RPG tracks, especially female vocals for adding atmosphere and layering. 
I say all of this because I'm trying to work out if Chorus might be good for me or if I'd be better off getting Freyja and then Wotan or maybe Storm choir...


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## VVEremita (May 29, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> so guys i've made a decision, i've bought storm choir. I liked that slavonic sound a bit more, the solo voices are sick as well and the shout fx could be really useful too (didn't even know about them). Let's hope it was the right decision


SCU is a high quality product with a great tone, you will enjoy it. Nothing wrong about it.


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## Mike Fox (May 29, 2022)

Kingtapir said:


> so guys i've made a decision, i've bought storm choir. I liked that slavonic sound a bit more, the solo voices are sick as well and the shout fx could be really useful too (didn't even know about them). Let's hope it was the right decision


Either choice would have been the right decision.


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## jbuhler (Jun 7, 2022)

LostintheBardo said:


> I have Spitfire EWC and really regret buying it because to me it kinda sounds like a choir patch on a cheap digital keyboard. I've been thinking about getting Strezov Freyja and eventually Wotan. I mostly like choir for RPG tracks, especially female vocals for adding atmosphere and layering.
> I say all of this because I'm trying to work out if Chorus might be good for me or if I'd be better off getting Freyja and then Wotan or maybe Storm choir...


EWC is really good for what it’s designed to do. It’s really untouchable in that domain, though I do wish it had a few consonant leading syllables. But EWC is also very much a niche choir and for many uses other choirs cover that ground much better. Unless you write frequently in the styles EWC is designed to cover it makes more sense to buy other choirs first.


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## Frederick (Jun 7, 2022)

I think Chorus is maybe the best general purpose choir out there at the moment in many respects (next generation stuff), but to me the choir doesn't sound English, Russian, Latin, Elvish, etc... Sure you can't tell what choirs are singing anyway, but when you are using the syllables it should trick your mind into believing it's an appropriate language and that is what Chorus isn't doing for me. No matter how much I want to like it.


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## LostintheBardo (Jun 7, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> EWC is really good for what it’s designed to do. It’s really untouchable in that domain, though I do wish it had a few consonant leading syllables. But EWC is also very much a niche choir and for many uses other choirs cover that ground much better. Unless you write frequently in the styles EWC is designed to cover it makes more sense to buy other choirs first.


It probably was just a case of not doing due research on my part but at least I very recently got Strezov Freyja and Wotan and am already really happy with them. 

One thing about EWC that really should be fixed is the massive volume drop between legato patches and non-legato ones. It made key switching pretty much unusable for me.


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## Casiquire (Jun 8, 2022)

LostintheBardo said:


> It probably was just a case of not doing due research on my part but at least I very recently got Strezov Freyja and Wotan and am already really happy with them.


These choirs are fantastic, so you made a good choice. Don't throw away EWC though--it can do the soft side that Wo/Frey struggles with imo. Anyone with Wo/Frey should supplement it with a softer one like Dominus, EWC, Tallinn, Ark 2, etc.


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## ism (Jun 8, 2022)

LostintheBardo said:


> I very recently got Strezov Freyja and Wotan and am already really happy with them.


Yep, if you're looking from something like Wotan or Freyja, EWC will surely make you want to slam your head in a door.

But just as surely, if you're looking for something like (the fabulous) EWC, Freyja and Wotan make you want to slam you head in that same door.


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## Reznov981 (Jun 8, 2022)

ism said:


> Yep, if you're looking from something like Wotan or Freyja, EWC will surely make you want to slam your head in a door.
> 
> But just as surely, if you're looking for something like (the fabulous) EWC, Freyja and Wotan make you want to slam you head in that same door.


I worry for the state of your head after all the door slamming you mention 😂


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## ism (Jun 9, 2022)

Reznov981 said:


> I worry for the state of your head after all the door slamming you mention 😂


This is why vi-c is so important


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## Futchibon (Jun 9, 2022)

Frederick said:


> I think Chorus is maybe the best general purpose choir out there at the moment in many respects (next generation stuff), but to me the choir doesn't sound English, Russian, Latin, Elvish, etc...


It's Jasperian...


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