# Fox Says Discovery About 'Simpsons' Composer Culminated in Firing



## gsilbers (Apr 29, 2020)

Fox Says Discovery About ‘Simpsons’ Composer Culminated in Firing


In new court papers, ‘Simpsons’ producers say they were surprised and disturbed to learn that Alf Clausen was having his son and others create music for the animated comedy. Fox demands…




www.hollywoodreporter.com





_In new court papers, 'Simpsons' producers say they were surprised and disturbed to learn that Alf Clausen was having his son and others create music for the animated comedy. Fox demands an end to an age bias suit as an impingement of its First Amendment-protected decision-making about the show's music._

ironic who later they hired for the music...


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## JohnG (Apr 29, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> ironic who later they hired for the music...



True, plus it's ludicrous to think you have to write every note yourself in TV.

I thought Alf Clausen had an actual contract?


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## gsilbers (Apr 29, 2020)

JohnG said:


> True, plus it's ludicrous to think you have to write every note yourself in TV.
> 
> I thought Alf Clausen had an actual contract?



a 30 year independent contractor doing the same thing for the same company....
:/


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## JohnG (Apr 29, 2020)

I saw that in the article, but I heard otherwise, that he actually does have a contract. How they pay him could be separate.


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## NoamL (Apr 29, 2020)

"FOX Astonished, Saddened To Learn Simpsons Actually Animated By Koreans"

I mean come _on_


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## gsilbers (Apr 29, 2020)

It’s not going to look good in court if he was fired for creative differences or going a different direction then after the lawsuit for age discrimination they argue he was using annouthorized help, but they hired a company co-owned by Hans zimmer (who is known for ghost writers to meet deadlines) and has many younger composers doing the music of the show, and it sounds about the same.
Obviously Hans and current composing company have nothing to do with this, 
They just got the gig. LA is ruthless like that... but the producers not knowing the backlash it might generate... geez.


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## Daryl (Apr 30, 2020)

In the UK, it is illegal for a PRS member to use a ghost writer. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but, as a PRS member, if you write it, you have to be on the cue sheet.


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## oboemaroni (Apr 30, 2020)

The music on the show is horrible now, sounds like soulless off-the-peg library stuff. I hope Alf Clausen wins...


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## Dave Connor (Apr 30, 2020)

Daryl said:


> In the UK, it is illegal for a PRS member to use a ghost writer. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but, as a PRS member, if you write it, you have to be on the cue sheet.


It’s pretty much the same here. That is, if there are ghost writers, they will be on the cue sheet.


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## chillbot (Apr 30, 2020)

Should preface that I'm 100% with Alf.

Also it is super common, even a necessity, to have a team of composers working on TV shows. Especially with live orchestra. Look at Blake Neely doing Arrow, The Flash, Superwoman, etc, all at the same time. (And in all the good scenarios the "team" is also getting cue sheet credit, generally in LA a 50% split is common though in shit conditions it can be considerably less.)

That said, the leader of the team is still expected to oversee the whole thing, take the meetings, do the spotting sessions, make the big decisions, have the final decision, etc.

The thing that worries me is the mention of Parkinson's... my personal experience with Parkinson's is it is every bit a mental as well as a physical disease, sadly. It's not a "disability" where you only lose physical capabilities. Depending on what stage he is in, FOX may have had a point if he was no longer able to lead his team.

The classy thing to do would have been to find out who was actually writing the music and offer to hire them, instead. If Alf's son was writing the music (among others) and the music is good (I think it was?) then why not ask Alf to turn over the show to him. Maybe they did, I dunno.


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## X-Bassist (Apr 30, 2020)

Although it’s been common to use ghostwriters openly since the 80’s, as chillbot mentions, they expect the hired composer would be the quality control and keep the music on track with the quality that is established early on. But as independent contractors (which most composers, running as companies, insist on) they can be let go at any time (but usually between seasons) if that quality falls below what is expected. Many in post production have the same deal, and I have to say it’s the only thing that keeps quality up as shows head into season 7, 8, 9. Muchless Simpsons, which started in 1990 and is somewhere around season 30. Unheard of.

Ironically, Klasky Csupo, the original animation company that started and designed the show, was let go after season 3, because quality of the animation was not living up to their expectations, and KC was asking for more money to improve it. So Brooks and company decided to go with a cheaper company, even though it took a while for the quality to return to where is was and improve. The new company even hired off most of the employees from KC who were working on the show. And Klasky had no recourse. This was in 1994.

Funny how people want jobs for the life of the show now, like switching out composers, or mixers, or players, or actors, is an unusual thing. Yes, some like actors, get a contract to keep the price from rising every year, but no creative has an endless contract, and most last 2 or 3 seasons at best. Did you know the writers on the Simpsons changes almost every year? They work in groups (yes, they have ghostwriters too) and often add it to their resume by working a season or two, then head off to work on their own projects, siting the environment there is difficult and stressful, but worth it only for the credits on their resume. Some are let go, but many freely leave. At this point there are many, many dozens of writers who have worked for the show, and it’s a given that this will continue.

Al is probably one of the few people, besides producers and the actors, that has been on since the first season. I’d say he did pretty well. Oh, and $12k an episode was how much they paid in 1990, but there is no way that didn’t rise each consecutive year. But I suppose any upfront pay pails in comparison to worldwide residuals on a popular show that plays in over 88 countries to this day. Al and his company are set for life.


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## Dave Connor (Apr 30, 2020)

The Parkinson’s issue would be pure speculation on our part. I studied composition with a man with advanced Parkinson‘s and he was very sharp and able to compose at a high level. His background was in film and TV.

We know they were cutting their budget and also had decades worth of great music in the can. A single episode where Rap music is used is going to do in orchestral composer Alf Clauson? They wanted to “improve“ the music of the Simpsons by firing him???

Something not adding up in all of this.


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## chillbot (Apr 30, 2020)

Dave Connor said:


> The Parkinson’s issue would be pure speculation on our part. I studied composition with a man with advanced Parkinson‘s and he was very sharp and able to compose at a high level. His background was in film and TV.


It is speculation, and I was speculating that it may have factored in. I understand it's not always the case, which is why I said "my personal experience with parkinson's". Because my dad has it I've done way more research than I had ever hoped to, and one of the first things people lose is literally the ability to make decisions, as well as motivation to do anything. Just being devil's advocate, I'm with Alf.


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## JohnG (Apr 30, 2020)

Dave Connor said:


> A single episode where Rap music is used is going to do in orchestral composer Alf Clauson? They wanted to “improve“ the music of the Simpsons by firing him???
> 
> Something not adding up in all of this.



I agree, Dave. 

And it's not like "he can't cut it." What series, in the history of television, has been more successful over more than a decade (two?)? Some guys just have a feel for what people will find funny, and Alf has it.


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## AlexRuger (May 1, 2020)

If hiring additional music composers is worthy of firing, upwards of 100% of TV composers should apparently be fired. 

I'm not buying their pearl-clutching at all. Imagine when they "learn" that Matt Groening no longer writes each show or animates each frame by hand, all by himself. Egads, fetch my fainting couch!

Nah, I'd bet that this is a cover for ageism, or maybe even more likely, simply wanting to reduce costs. Alf was holding onto 90's-level rates, and they wanted to cut costs. It says so right in the article. The Simpsons has been a zombie for years and years now, cutting corners left and right while still going on being the cash cow that it is. 

Though, unfortunately the whole "he can't make rap" thing is totally believable. I can totally see some producer all but outright saying "he's [old/white/an orchestral composer/etc], there's no way he can make rap." People in this industry constantly surprise me at how one-dimensional they imagine we composers are, when it's literally our job to be versatile. "I heard him do X, there's no way that he can do Y or Z!" And then going from there to saying "maybe he's not the guy for the show" is _precisely _the kind of moronic logic some people jump to. "He can demonstrably nail 99% of the show, but I have unfounded doubts that he can't do 1%, better fire him." Par for the course.


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## Mike Greene (May 1, 2020)

Wait ... they're saying Alf can't do hip hop? I think I've found my new ad campaign!


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## Dave Connor (May 1, 2020)

It’s been standard operating procedure forever to hire out for specialized music. Just forever. Or going to library cues (also forever.) Alf knows all this stuff sideways so if he’s complaining about something I’m sure he has it right.

All businesses and marketplaces have their practices and dynamics. We don’t run out for lobster every time we’re hungry. Clauson however, IS The Simpsons. Even when certain characters aren’t playing he is. So, whatever the case may be, he should be treated as the royalty he is; given every benefit of the doubt and, even if let go from the show - done so in the highest professional manner and for honest legitimate reasons.


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## J-M (May 1, 2020)

Got a good chuckle out of this, you go FOX...


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## José Herring (May 1, 2020)

Part of me is saying, awe c'mon, you did the show for 30 years got famous and made a tone of money, quit the bellyachin'...

But, the larger part of me is thinking take it to them. Fox is obviously scared and grasping at straws. Without a doubt he got fired because they wanted younger, hipper possibly cheaper. The idea that they were "shocked" that he was using ghost....BS. They jumped over to the one outfit that is notorious for using multiple composers. 

He should get them. Make the industry think twice about its practices. Get them for age discrimination, get them for discrimination against the physically disabled.....too bad he isn't black, he could of made it the legal equivalent of a trifecta.


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## lokotus (May 1, 2020)

Maybe someone could explain to me why you can sue somebody when you get fired ? Isn't the reason irrelevant if you contract says that in case you get fired, you probably get some money and then goodbye... They don't like your shoes, They saw a black cat, whatever, Bit of a naiv question here.


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## VinRice (May 3, 2020)

lokotus said:


> Maybe someone could explain to me why you can sue somebody when you get fired ? Isn't the reason irrelevant if you contract says that in case you get fired, you probably get some money and then goodbye... They don't like your shoes, They saw a black cat, whatever, Bit of a naiv question here.



Every contract is different. It's very likely that any termination would require a reasonable cause in terms of work quality or behaviour. Even if there is no such performance clause this is Amerika, so anybody can sue anybody for anything and let the Judge decide if the contract termination was reasonable and enforceable.


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## SamC (May 3, 2020)

AlexRuger said:


> If hiring additional music composers is worthy of firing, upwards of 100% of TV composers should apparently be fired.



Exactly! I once did some ghost writing FOR a ghost writer...and I wish I was kidding...

He was afraid of losing his gig and asked me to help him with thematic material, uncredited, and paid me out of his pocket.

Additional composers is a terrible excuse for firing. Especially for someone as accomplished and vital to the show as Clausen. I’m not buying it.


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## lokotus (May 3, 2020)

VinRice said:


> Every contract is different. It's very likely that any termination would require a reasonable cause in terms of work quality or behaviour. Even if there is no such performance clause this is Amerika, so anybody can sue anybody for anything and let the Judge decide if the contract termination was reasonable and enforceable.


Thanks for the clarification. Then another question comes to my mind: If you win this fight and firing was not legit, how do you proceed to cooperate on further projects when continuing to work for that company you sued ?


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## AlexRuger (May 3, 2020)

SamC said:


> I once did some ghost writing FOR a ghost writer...and I wish I was kidding...


I've been in the same position multiple times, too. It is _absurdly _common. Sometimes I think it's like that saying about turtles and the universe: "it's ghost writers all the way down."


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## Iswhatitis (May 3, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> Fox Says Discovery About ‘Simpsons’ Composer Culminated in Firing
> 
> 
> In new court papers, ‘Simpsons’ producers say they were surprised and disturbed to learn that Alf Clausen was having his son and others create music for the animated comedy. Fox demands…
> ...


I don't care how talented Alf is as a composer, he has been beyond lucky to make a fortune off The Simpsons for almost three decades and will continue to make a fortune in royalties for the rest of his life off that show in syndication. I would normally side with composers against any studio in a general sense, but I think Alf got fired for simply being too expensive after all these years given his use of a live orchestra and the costs associated with those recordings for each episode. 

I do not feel HZ and his company are the right composer for this show, but success begets success and HZ dominates in getting Hollywood business. Alf will never get a gig like this ever again so I don't have a problem with him suing the studio as a last ditch effort to grab as much money as he can, but Alf really should be more thankful that he made the fortune he has in the first place from The Simpsons. 

The main problem though with Alf suing the studio is he will probably destroy any future chance for a composer career for his son. I wonder if he even thought about that angle before he sued the studio. Studios can be very vindictive and I would not be surprised if they blacklisted his son from ever working again as a composer. Normally, producers and studios want to take advantage of any composer and talent that they can and I am completely against it! I wish the composers had a union so this could not happen, but no one protects composers the way musicians, orchestrators, writers and copyists are protected.

I don't see Alf winning his lawsuit under any circumstance and I don't see his son being hired by any studio given the lawsuit. Nobody wins a lawsuit because they get fired for costing the show too much money in comparison to other possible talent.


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## SamC (May 3, 2020)

AlexRuger said:


> I've been in the same position multiple times, too. It is _absurdly _common. Sometimes I think it's like that saying about turtles and the universe: "it's ghost writers all the way down."



Wow, I didn’t know it was as common as that. In my case I had to write character themes that could be used through-out the film. Looking back on it I got really screwed, it was a huge movie.


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## peladio (May 3, 2020)

oboemaroni said:


> The music on the show is horrible now, sounds like soulless off-the-peg library stuff. I hope Alf Clausen wins...



The whole show should have been finished 10 years ago at least..


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## AlexRuger (May 3, 2020)

SamC said:


> Wow, I didn’t know it was as common as that. In my case I had to write character themes that could be used through-out the film. Looking back on it I got really screwed, it was a huge movie.


I mean, I don't want to overstate it. It's just...pretty damn common. More common than one might think.

But it isn't a bad or good thing in and of itself. I think it's indicative of a larger issue, which is that the idea that the composer works alone (probably tortured, writing to candlelight, wearing a powdered wig) is just totally outdated, and that the idea of composers being companies should probably become more widespread and acknowledged. But I talk about that a good bit on this forum and should probably stop being a broken record.

And the way Hans talks about, for example, the Pirates score, is definitely a case of "ghosts all the way down," but a more honest way of talking about it would be "a bunch of people writing music together," which is by no means a bad thing at all. It sounds like it was, like, "hey, dude down the hall, come do X," and it might have been composer A's assistant now writing for composer B, but it's kind of all just one big pot. It's in fact a great thing and should probably happen more often (though obviously that isn't a perfect example, as a huge part of that was due to the extreme time constraints). 

It's only bad if, like in your case, you're getting screwed with regards to credit and/or money. That's never good.


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## SamC (May 3, 2020)

AlexRuger said:


> I mean, I don't want to overstate it. It's just...pretty damn common. More common than one might think.
> 
> But it isn't a bad or good thing in and of itself. I think it's indicative of a larger issue, which is that the idea that the composer works alone (probably tortured, writing to candlelight, wearing a powdered wig) is just totally outdated, and that the idea of composers being companies should probably become more widespread and acknowledged. But I talk about that a good bit on this forum and should probably stop being a broken record.
> 
> ...



Yeah, it was a lesson for me. We all need one of them! The idea of being at the helm of a giant film single handedly seems nigh on impossible and a team makes complete sense in today’s world.

I’d personally love to be part of a team, but not sure how proliferated the creative chain is these days. With someone like Zimmer, god only knows how many hands create those scores. I often wonder how much personal identity/vision of the original composer gets lost in that chain.


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## AlexRuger (May 3, 2020)

SamC said:


> I often wonder how much personal identity/vision of the original composer gets lost in that chain.



In my experience, not much. Regardless of the size of the team or hands-on/hands-off they are, one could argue that the primary job of a composer is to deliver their vision (within and in concert with the constraints and vision of the filmmakers, of course).


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## Nils Neumann (May 3, 2020)

AlexRuger said:


> I mean, I don't want to overstate it. It's just...pretty damn common. More common than one might think.
> 
> But it isn't a bad or good thing in and of itself. I think it's indicative of a larger issue, which is that the idea that the composer works alone (probably tortured, writing to candlelight, wearing a powdered wig) is just totally outdated, and that the idea of composers being companies should probably become more widespread and acknowledged. But I talk about that a good bit on this forum and should probably stop being a broken record.
> 
> ...



Animation and Visual Effects Studios already do it that way, and that very openly. Weird that Composing is perceived so different.


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## Nils Neumann (May 3, 2020)

SamC said:


> Yeah, it was a lesson for me. We all need one of them! The idea of being at the helm of a giant film single handedly seems nigh on impossible and a team makes complete sense in today’s world.
> 
> I’d personally love to be part of a team, but not sure how proliferated the creative chain is these days. With someone like Zimmer, god only knows how many hands create those scores. I often wonder how much personal identity/vision of the original composer gets lost in that chain.


I worked on a few projects with multiple composers and it is quit astonishing how you can still have a homogeneous sound. In my experience it‘s more important to use the same sound sources then writing everything in the same style


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## VinRice (May 3, 2020)

lokotus said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Then another question comes to my mind: If you win this fight and firing was not legit, how do you proceed to cooperate on further projects when continuing to work for that company you sued ?



Well you don't obviously because the relationship is now fucked. You take your damage dollars and move on. These things never end in a fun way. However, the TV and Film business are notorious for the turnover in management staff, so wait a few years and it will be an entirely different set of people to deal with.


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## gsilbers (May 3, 2020)

lokotus said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Then another question comes to my mind: If you win this fight and firing was not legit, how do you proceed to cooperate on further projects when continuing to work for that company you sued ?



It’s a big company. And the producers have nothing to do with the studio per se. 
but obviously other producers might not want to take that risk.
there is the guys from bones who sued fox for some royalty backend stuff and they went to another studio.
There is also the case of Tyler bates who is a great modern composer but was off for a while for that Titus rip-off issue on 300 that he got too close to the reference. 
it definitely afects but at the end it doesn’t matter... Hans will get the gig lol


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## gsilbers (May 3, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> I don't care how talented Alf is as a composer, he has been beyond lucky to make a fortune off The Simpsons for almost three decades and will continue to make a fortune in royalties for the rest of his life off that show in syndication. I would normally side with composers against any studio in a general sense, but I think Alf got fired for simply being too expensive after all these years given his use of a live orchestra and the costs associated with those recordings for each episode.
> 
> I do not feel HZ and his company are the right composer for this show, but success begets success and HZ dominates in getting Hollywood business. Alf will never get a gig like this ever again so I don't have a problem with him suing the studio as a last ditch effort to grab as much money as he can, but Alf really should be more thankful that he made the fortune he has in the first place from The Simpsons.
> 
> ...



It sucks all around because he was seen as a contratactor and someone that can be replace easily.
even after 30 years of work.
In any job that just sucks that we are still at the mercy of large corporation w no rights or job security. obviusly the other side of the coin is being stuck with a mediocre pissed off employee.

I think his son will be fine even w/o composing. Those domestic syndication royalties plus every country, every USA state plays the Simpson’s daily. and that will be on going for at least a decade. 

So I think it’s just a bitter thing between parties. Maybe not adjusting to virtual orchestras instead of real in the new era of streaming where there is an inmense pressure to lower costs. Or maybe it’s just something else entirely we will never know what it really was all about.


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