# Orchestral Tools: Phoenix Orchestra (single instruments from €7)



## OrchestralTools (Sep 1, 2020)

Hey everyone,

We are proud to announce Phoenix Orchestra: A Chinese chamber orchestra for modern composition. Created in collaboration with Harry Gregson-Williams and Richard Harvey.

Now available for pre-order, Phoenix boasts 21 detailed solo instruments, 7 ensembles, and 4 orchestral sections, and is 100% playable (no pre-recorded phrases), with true legato for all melodic instruments.

Pre-order for €299 +VAT (regular price €499)
Offer ends September 21, 2020




Find out more at:
https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/collections/phoenix-orchestra

And as usual, let us know if you have any questions.

Best,

OT


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## Kabraxis (Sep 1, 2020)

Valhalla Supermassive's getting free has echoed in every level of the industry.


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## jamwerks (Sep 1, 2020)

Percussion?


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## Akcel (Sep 1, 2020)

Smells like Metropolis


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## Sips Tea (Sep 1, 2020)

It sounds like a processed cymbal roll. 



It could be a Big Band Rhythm section for Glory Days, but that's just a wild guess.


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## davidson (Sep 1, 2020)

Please be kontakt, please be kontakt, please be kontakt...


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## Drundfunk (Sep 1, 2020)

Richard Harvey toolkit? Teaser is the sound of someone blowing into a woodwind instrument or something (air only) with a lot of processing. I'm intrigued!


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## jamwerks (Sep 1, 2020)

Would love for it to be Woodwinds!


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## MaxOctane (Sep 1, 2020)

davidson said:


> Please be kontakt, please be kontakt, please be kontakt...



I think there's zero chance. SINE.


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## Martin S (Sep 1, 2020)

Sips Tea said:


> It sounds like a processed cymbal roll.
> 
> 
> 
> It could be a Big Band Rhythm section for Glory Days, but that's just a wild guess.




+1

Indeed ! Sounds very much like a cymbal roll played with brushes..


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## rottoy (Sep 1, 2020)

+1 on it being a Richard Harvey sample library, featuring all kinds of wind instruments.


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## Larbguy (Sep 1, 2020)

Maybe another 3rd party library? I've been getting a lot of use out of Arbos and the Viola from Tableu Solo Strings.


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## muziksculp (Sep 1, 2020)

Whatever it turns out to be, I'm interested


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## jamwerks (Sep 1, 2020)

rottoy said:


> +1 on it being a Richard Harvey sample library, featuring all kinds of wind instruments.


Would be cool !


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## Hendrixon (Sep 1, 2020)

So... if it's Ark 5... and it will be released on September 4...
And Heavyocity releasing Damage 2 on August 3...
And AMD releasing their next gen Zen 3 cpus calling them Ryzen 4000...

Is it just me or no body seems to know how to count these days?!


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## muziksculp (Sep 1, 2020)

Maybe not directly related to the upcoming release, but, I'm curious to know if we can expect OT's Berlin Series Kontakt based libraries (i.e Berlin Strings, First Chairs, Brass, Woodwinds, Perc. ..etc.) to be available in SINE format this year ?


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## RonOrchComp (Sep 1, 2020)

I am thinking it's a collaboration between OT and SFA


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## Larbguy (Sep 1, 2020)

OT collabing with S+A would be sonic ambrosia


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## Kevinside (Sep 1, 2020)

I want a sale on their main "Kontakt" Libraries... The Sine player has no aax and is worse than Ew Play ever can be...I love Orchestral Tools... but the sine player is a headache,cause no AAX and it is unstable...


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## gyprock (Sep 1, 2020)

It's my birthday on Sept 4. I'll be singing the original, unreleased version of the Beatles song "When I'm 63".


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## Supremo (Sep 2, 2020)

Kazimir Malevich Toolkit.


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## artomatic (Sep 2, 2020)

A bug-free SINE.


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## muziksculp (Sep 2, 2020)

Flautando Drum Rolls.


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## zimm83 (Sep 2, 2020)

artomatic said:


> A bug-free SINE.


À return to Kontakt...


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## muziksculp (Sep 2, 2020)

zimm83 said:


> À return to Kontakt...



I very much doubt that will ever happen.


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## Dr.Quest (Sep 2, 2020)

That sound like air flow, not cymbal. And the graphics suggests an upward flow of...


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## Virtuoso (Sep 2, 2020)

RonOrchComp said:


> I am thinking it's a collaboration between OT and SFA


SINE Player running inside the Spitfire Player!


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## Jay Panikkar (Sep 2, 2020)

Berlin Percussion for SINE?


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## mr336 (Sep 2, 2020)

It's an orchestral sound when SINE crashes. This occupied all the programer's time so no bug fixes could be addressed. New sound is called "Black Tuesday".


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## Technostica (Sep 3, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> SINE Player running inside the Spitfire Player!


The Cosine Player!


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## Bluemount Score (Sep 3, 2020)

Something that's not Ark 5. Ark is dark! Not like what we see here.


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## jamwerks (Sep 3, 2020)

That image vaguely resembles Woodwing fingering charts. An all new line starting with Woodwinds?


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## Sips Tea (Sep 3, 2020)

Maybe it's an ethnic woodwinds library. The little image that appears in the video is in the shape of a shofar horn.


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## JyTy (Sep 3, 2020)

I just hope it is not something that will be insanely good and I will be able to pass! :D Summer sales killed me :D


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## BenjaminFisch (Sep 3, 2020)

I hope for a woodwinds sale


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## Wolf68 (Sep 3, 2020)

I hope for something that gives my wallet a break...


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Sep 3, 2020)

Sounds of airplanes flying off - great idea for a library!


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 3, 2020)

Jay Panikkar said:


> Berlin Percussion for SINE?



interesting you say that honestly... I felt like it would be the first berlin series on sine for a few reasons.

1.) it's the only one that doesn't use trill orchestrator or tempo based patches

2.) it only has 1 expansion

3.) it doesn't compete with JXL brass

that said, based on the teaser, which sounds like a cymbal- the teaser kind of matches the color scheme they've chosen for berlin percussion









Berlin Percussion


The rhythmic foundation of the acclaimed Berlin Series, Berlin Percussion is the flagship Orchestral Tools percussion collection—and it’s now available on SINE. Berlin Percussion offers a full set of pitched and unpitched orchestral percussion, with a choice of sticks and playing techniques for...




www.orchestraltools.com





I've been saying this for a while now, but ironically I've been thinking about the fact that it's not likely they stopped booking sampling sessions this whole time, so it's possible they've got something NEW on sine as well. 

If OT is smart they'll try to balance some of the "new money" vs "old money" when it comes to sampling and SINE. 

the only new releases outside of JXL brass have been sort of outside of OT's typical wheelhouse and not very deeply sampled by comparison to the berlin series. Junkie seems to be relatively quiet, so not expecting a suprise Junkie collab to spring up.

So if this ends up being a Berlin Percussion is on SINE port, that'll be cool - but my question is when and what will the next big NEW sine library be.


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## Nils Neumann (Sep 3, 2020)

hmmm


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## Sips Tea (Sep 3, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> interesting you say that honestly... I felt like it would be the first berlin series on sine for a few reasons.
> 
> 1.) it's the only one that doesn't use trill orchestrator or tempo based patches
> 
> ...


I think it's going to be a new library. They made a post on Facebook over 6 weeks ago saying they are back at the Teldex Studio recording a new library. It took them around 3 weeks to record JXL Brass, but without knowing how long it takes them to edit samples and implement them into SINE, I can only make an educated guess by saying we'll see the new library.


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## Jay Panikkar (Sep 3, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> interesting you say that honestly... I felt like it would be the first berlin series on sine for a few reasons.
> 
> 1.) it's the only one that doesn't use trill orchestrator or tempo based patches
> 
> ...



Yup, and also since they ported Arks 1 and 2, releasing percussion ASAP would round out the SINE offerings imo.

Tbh, the teaser is vague enough that it could be anything. 



ProfoundSilence said:


> I've been saying this for a while now, but ironically I've been thinking about the fact that it's not likely they stopped booking sampling sessions this whole time, so it's possible they've got something NEW on sine as well.
> 
> If OT is smart they'll try to balance some of the "new money" vs "old money" when it comes to sampling and SINE.
> 
> ...



OT scaled up recently. They now have multiple teams working on multiple projects, with a dedicated team working on SINE.


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## purplehamster (Sep 3, 2020)

An addition to the existing creative soundpacks maybe? An instrument from Berlin Inspire 3?

They already have strings/woodwinds/french horns sfx...so a Percussion SFX?


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## jamwerks (Sep 3, 2020)

The mutes for JXL Brass?


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## Fry777 (Sep 3, 2020)

A rainstick library !


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 3, 2020)




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## jamwerks (Sep 3, 2020)

Maybe some Ethnic Woodwinds?


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## samuel.beliveau (Sep 3, 2020)

Image is named _PO_socials-tomorrow-square.jpg_

I wonder what *PO *stands for...


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## Lassi Tani (Sep 3, 2020)

samuel.beliveau said:


> Image is named _PO_socials-tomorrow-square.jpg_
> 
> I wonder what *PO *stands for...



Maybe Prass Orchestra? Or Phoodwinds Orchestra?


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## Ozinga (Sep 3, 2020)

Percussion Ork


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## Drundfunk (Sep 3, 2020)

R H T K................... Richard Harvey ToolKit confirmed!..................Man I hope I won't be too disappointed tomorrow . Well, whatever it is I'll give it a fair chance.


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## gussunkri (Sep 3, 2020)

PO... I guess "O" could be "Orchestra". So... "Philharmonic Orchestra", or "Philadelphia Orchestra", "Pretty Orchestra" or "Phat Orchestra"?


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## Drundfunk (Sep 3, 2020)

samuel.beliveau said:


> Image is named _PO_socials-tomorrow-square.jpg_
> 
> I wonder what *PO *stands for...


Patrick Owomoyela. Former football player of Borussia Dortmund


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## ALittleNightMusic (Sep 3, 2020)

Looks like confetti. It has to be a multi-sample recording of party poppers and whistles in the Teldex Hall with 15 microphone positions. 8 RR, 5 dynamic layers, including one at the edge of silence.


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## Virtuoso (Sep 3, 2020)

No they're definitely Quavers. Maybe it's a clue that the samples are all eighth notes?


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## Technostica (Sep 3, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


>



The sound of geese being plucked in preparation for a Thanksgiving dinner!
Those are the feathers that we see and I hope there's a vegetarian option.


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## nolotrippen (Sep 3, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Looks like confetti. It has to be a multi-sample recording of party poppers and whistles in the Teldex Hall with 15 microphone positions. 8 RR, 5 dynamic layers, including one at the edge of silence.


I read "Party Poopers"


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## nolotrippen (Sep 3, 2020)

Technostica said:


> The sound of geese being plucked in preparation for a Thanksgiving dinner!
> Those are the feathers that we see and I hope there's a vegetarian option.


Geese for Thanksgiving? You must be from Canada.


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## Loïc D (Sep 3, 2020)

In my world, PO stands for Product Owner or Purchase Order...


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## Technostica (Sep 3, 2020)

nolotrippen said:


> Geese for Thanksgiving? You must be from Canada.


No, the Old Country.


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## jamwerks (Sep 3, 2020)

Product: Overture


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## muziksculp (Sep 3, 2020)

Maybe a new, much better sounding Tableau Solo Violin than the original 

haha.. I know that's not it, but just wanted to wish for a better non-nasal sounding new version.


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## David Kudell (Sep 3, 2020)

New OT? I’m very excited for this announcement!


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Sep 3, 2020)

It's the Playable Runs patch for BWW Flute II definitely. 3 years in the making


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Sep 3, 2020)

However they make the announcement, you can be sure that it's gonna feature some new sounds and instruments we've never heard before.


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## paulmatthew (Sep 3, 2020)

Sept 5, 2020


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## Rory (Sep 3, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Maybe a new, much better sounding Tableau Solo Violin than the original
> 
> haha.. I know that's not it, but just wanted to wish for a better non-nasal sounding new version.




This thread exists to create the same kind of hype


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 3, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> However they make the announcement, you can be sure that it's gonna feature some new sounds and instruments we've never heard before.


OT has been pretty reasonable on their marketing pitches

they raised the bar with their berlin series but never cashed in on the "next gen" "reinventing the wheel" hype that they kinda lived up to. 

I do however want to find out what it is to see if I should be signing up for overtime next weekend


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## Paul Jelfs (Sep 4, 2020)

Percussion Oriental


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## filipjonathan (Sep 4, 2020)

Wait, is it out yet?


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## ka00 (Sep 4, 2020)

filipjonathan said:


> Wait, is it out yet?



no sine of it yet


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## Sanjay 1880 (Sep 4, 2020)

Phoenix Orchestra


A contemporary Chinese chamber orchestra, offering a vibrant palette for creating authentic Chinese music—both ancient and modern—for your scores and productions. This collection was created and designed with Richard Harvey for Harry Gregson Williams and his score for Disney’s live-action Mulan...




www.orchestraltools.com


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## CromoFX (Sep 4, 2020)

First *sine *?


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## Sips Tea (Sep 4, 2020)

An Oriental Orchestra! Let's Go! This is incredible.


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## samuel.beliveau (Sep 4, 2020)

Logo image url is _ /prod/images/phoenix/ot-logo-chinese-vertical.1645a6f8.svg_

*phoenix*

the plot thickens..

Actually, it's up: https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/collections/phoenix-orchestra


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## Beans (Sep 4, 2020)

samuel.beliveau said:


> Actually, it's up: https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/collections/phoenix-orchestra



Regardless of whether or not I need it, the recording sounds lovely and it's an attractive intro price.


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## davidson (Sep 4, 2020)

Sine


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## CromoFX (Sep 4, 2020)

Chinese Chamber Orchestra ... count me in! 

Congrats OT!


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## Sips Tea (Sep 4, 2020)

I don't know if I need this library, but that price... that sound... my wallet is calling my name!


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 4, 2020)

Hey everyone,

We are proud to announce Phoenix Orchestra: A Chinese chamber orchestra for modern composition. Created in collaboration with Harry Gregson-Williams and Richard Harvey.

Now available for pre-order, Phoenix boasts 21 detailed solo instruments, 7 ensembles, and 4 orchestral sections, and is 100% playable (no pre-recorded phrases), with true legato for all melodic instruments.

Pre-order for €299 +VAT (regular price €499)
Offer ends September 21, 2020




Find out more at:
https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/collections/phoenix-orchestra

And as usual, let us know if you have any questions.

Best,

OT


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## LudovicVDP (Sep 4, 2020)

Man... I had put Jade Ethnic on my list... And now this comes out. 

Demo sounds very nice... as you would expect from OT.


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## Francis Bourre (Sep 4, 2020)

Wow sounds amazing, and the intro price is so cheap when you see the amount of work and production. Thanks for that.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

suddenly no longer regretting talking myself out of jade. I might pick a few goodies up from a la carte. 

liking the demos, and the fact that this was recorded in Bangkok makes the recording session in teldex even more of a mystery to me. 

it's awesome that bends were recorded, and now I have a TON of demos to listen to... call me Starbucks basic but I liked @Alex Niedt 's cherry blossom skies. It's certainly not flexing the library, but it's pretty peaceful - and while its very simple it somehow comes off feeling authentic instead of a cliche. I think the attention to detail on the percussion might be the secret? 

I tried to make an east Asian piece and it sounded like a parody and I gave up on it because I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

Also, wanted to take a moment to point out that amidst the modern virus problems, it's beautiful to see @OrchestralTools and @StrezovSampling release some rock solid libraries celebrating east asian culture. Many times ethnic instrument libraries are kind of treated as an afterthrought and they end up being a grab bag of half useful sounds while there are no shortage of deeply sampled string libraries. It's nice to see these instruments not treated like a 2nd class flavor. 



that said, who do I have to pillage to get some loved for bowed lyres?!?


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## ptram (Sep 4, 2020)

Judging from the demos, by far the best sounding and most realistic set of Chinese instruments ever sampled. And being part of the same collection, there is a cohesiveness that might lack to other libraries.

Paolo


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## Sips Tea (Sep 4, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> liking the demos, and the fact that this was recorded in Bangkok makes the recording session in teldex even more of a mystery to me.


I'm really hoping it's a Berlin Choir Library, but it could also be MA5 given the time of year it would be released.


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## Wunderhorn (Sep 4, 2020)

A welcome sound palette, beautiful!
Although, if it's on the dreadful SINE player I will pass.


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## zimm83 (Sep 4, 2020)

davidson said:


> Sine


Kontakt !


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## ptram (Sep 4, 2020)

It's Sine. It would have been self-contradictory not to use Sine for this library...

Paolo


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

zimm83 said:


> Kontakt !


its definitely sine.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Sep 4, 2020)

Looks very promising. Plus with the most recent SINE update, it's been running a LOT smoother on my CPU.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

also, @Nils Neumann that lick at 0:34 at is hella groovy. I think that's what djent would have sounded like 900 AD on the silk road.

10/10 would fist fight bandits while protecting a spice caravan to that

not sure what it is, but these demo tracks are really quite refreshing - wouldn't have thought I was in the mood for this, and library aside - I'm just really digging this. It's like a small album just dropped, 
tons of collabs around a theme. 

thanks demo writers


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## Rory (Sep 4, 2020)

Wikipedia on the Ding Yi Music Company, which is based in Singapore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ding_Yi_Music_Company

The Ding Yi web site: https://www.dingyimusic.com/


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## emilio_n (Sep 4, 2020)

Tempting... Actually I was planning to get Jade in their firs sale but now... this sounds gorgeous! 
Moving priorities... KUCE 13 for next year... :-D


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

off topic, but I'm not convinced she doesn't have a side gig as a black metal drummer. 

her technique demonstrations kind of reinforce what I was saying about how these instruments for some reason get mistreated when sampled - when instruments like this have such a massive range


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## Frederick (Sep 4, 2020)

I love the sound of this, I'm into adding ethnic flavour to my mockups, I think the price is very reasonable, BUT... I don't see how I will develop the skills to use this properly. 

I figured before that the older ethnic products which have lots of phrases next to some samples, were created this way, because a more painting by numbers approach would make the material more accessible to people like me, that know nothing about how to do music in an oriental style. To me this is like getting all the ingredients for a wonderful Chinese meal, but without having the recipe.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

Rory said:


> Wikipedia on the Ding Yi Music Company, which is based in Singapore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ding_Yi_Music_Company
> 
> The Ding Yi web site: https://www.dingyimusic.com/




\m/


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

Frederick said:


> I love the sound of this, I'm into adding ethnic flavour to my mockups, I think the price is very reasonable, BUT... I don't see how I will develop the skills to use this properly.
> 
> I figured before that the older ethnic products which have lots of phrases next to some samples, were created this way, because a more painting by numbers approach would make the material more accessible to people like me, that know nothing about how to do music in an oriental style. To me this is like getting all the ingredients for a wonderful Chinese meal, but without having the recipe.


I don't think this is any different than selling orchestral samples

I hear people write things with VI that have absolutely no basis in reality(infinite sustains at forte, blistering trombone passages, insane cello ostinatos that are louder than louder than the French horns, which are louder than the trumpets. 

wild chromatic harp and timpani playing, ect. 

some libraries are even designed in a way that faithful reproduction of the instrument is impossible. 

like all things, it's about time and energy to learn combined with enough playfulness to let yourself fail. Nobody was handed an orchestra and knew what to do with it on the first go


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## Beans (Sep 4, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> some libraries are even designed in a way that faithful reproduction of the instrument is impossible.



This is crucial. 

After accepting that, start with understanding the basic, physical limitations of a human playing the instrument(s), just as you would with a clarinet or violin. Revel in that for a while, then assess if you want to learn further.


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## Sips Tea (Sep 4, 2020)

Frederick said:


> I love the sound of this, I'm into adding ethnic flavour to my mockups, I think the price is very reasonable, BUT... I don't see how I will develop the skills to use this properly.


I'm sure you could develop the skills to write with this library. I'm listening to a few examples which combine ethnic music and a traditional western orchestra to convince myself that I could actually use this library. A good example that springs to mind is John Williams' Score for 'Memoirs of a Geisha'.


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## Manaberry (Sep 4, 2020)

Very happy about this announcement. I'm also in.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

Beans said:


> This is crucial.
> 
> After accepting that, start with understanding the basic, physical limitations of a human playing the instrument(s), just as you would with a clarinet or violin. Revel in that for a while, then assess if you want to learn further.


I'd say that's why I was busy looking at videos explaining yangqin techniques but its not.. I was just bored and in the mood to learn about some of these instruments XD


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## Beans (Sep 4, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I was just bored and in the mood to learn about some of these instruments XD



Boredom is a great excuse to learn.


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 4, 2020)

I think I am gonna like this, despite the fact it’s made for Sine. Hey @OrchestralTools are you also coming up with any new free libraries?


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## Frederick (Sep 4, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I don't think this is any different than selling orchestral samples
> 
> I hear people write things with VI that have absolutely no basis in reality(infinite sustains at forte, blistering trombone passages, insane cello ostinatos that are louder than louder than the French horns, which are louder than the trumpets.
> 
> ...



I definitely want realism. I also want it to sound good. Couragious experimentation and allowing myself to fail are most definitely some of my weakest points. I'm new to making music and I have been learning about the instruments in the orchestra, reading music notation, string voicing as opposed to a chord on a piano, etc. The benefit here is that I use the instruments in a 'regular' orchestra many times as opposed to ethnic instruments. I have the advantage with 'regular' instruments that I have them seen played many times, that I have heard them all my life. The Chinese instruments I would use only in the occasional project, I have not heard them all my life, not seen them played, etc.

A whole orchestra of strange instruments seems like a daunting task. They probably have a different scale system. Etc. Maybe I could learn just a few of them for a certain project and stick with music that combines them with a 'traditional' orchestra.


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## Frederick (Sep 4, 2020)

Beans said:


> This is crucial.
> 
> After accepting that, start with understanding the basic, physical limitations of a human playing the instrument(s), just as you would with a clarinet or violin. Revel in that for a while, then assess if you want to learn further.



That would be my way to do this, indeed.


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## Frederick (Sep 4, 2020)

Sips Tea said:


> I'm sure you could develop the skills to write with this library. I'm listening to a few examples which combine ethnic music and a traditional western orchestra to convince myself that I could actually use this library. A good example that springs to mind is John Williams' Score for 'Memoirs of a Geisha'.



Ok, thanks for the confidence! Now that sounds like a much better idea: Don't think of this as a Chinese orchestra, but as a collection of Chinese instruments that can enhance your orchestra in a setting say like 'Memoirs of a Geisha'.

Hm. Mocking up a solo violin like Itzhak Perlman plays it or Yo-Yo Ma plays the cello is also quite a daunting task. That isn't stopping me either.

I'm going to consider this purchase.

EDIT: Preordered it.


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## Kevinside (Sep 4, 2020)

its sine of course...


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## Nils Neumann (Sep 4, 2020)

Hey guys,

Again I had the opportunity to write something for OT. 
This is really a well-researched library. So many articulations to make a phrase sing. Just check the articulation for all the instruments on the Website. A lot of instruments come with 4 different sustains, ornaments with many variations, a lot of bends and trills in larger intervals. A really awesome collection! I approve

Thanks to @OrchestralTools for having me on board again!


Here is the video with a screencast


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## styledelk (Sep 4, 2020)

I'll a-la-carte the Sheng out of this for sure. Not for anything authentic, though. I've long wanted to buy a real life one and haven't gotten around to it. Such a beautiful sound.


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## Drundfunk (Sep 4, 2020)

Damn, I was soo close!


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Sep 4, 2020)

Frederick said:


> Ok, thanks for the confidence! Now that sounds like a much better idea: Don't think of this as a Chinese orchestra, but as a collection of Chinese instruments that can enhance your orchestra in a setting say like 'Memoirs of a Geisha'.
> 
> Hm. Mocking up a solo violin like Itzhak Perlman plays it or Yo-Yo Ma plays the cello is also quite a daunting task. That isn't stopping me either.
> 
> I'm going to consider this purchase.



Hey Frederick, when we created Phoenix Orchestra, authenticity was an important factor. Having Richard Harvey on board during the recordings was a huge advantage, allowing us to access the fascinating world of Chinese instruments and music.
Phoenix Orchestra offers a variety of ornamental long notes. You can combine them with the legato transitions within SINE. The combination of pre-recorded ornaments and the playability of true legato makes the instruments intuitive to access this certain style without losing flexibility.

There are pros and cons regarding pre-recorded phrases, and there are multiple libraries out there offering this. We wanted to do things differently. We wanted to have them playable but in a very believable and authentic way.


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## Nils Neumann (Sep 4, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> also, @Nils Neumann that lick at 0:34 at is hella groovy. I think that's what djent would have sounded like 900 AD on the silk road.
> 
> 10/10 would fist fight bandits while protecting a spice caravan to that
> 
> ...



Guzhengs can djent! Definitely


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## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Sep 4, 2020)

Drundfunk said:


> Damn, I was soo close!



good job on guessing. Was fascinated reading how close you were.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 4, 2020)

Nils Neumann said:


> Guzhengs can djent! Definitely


 

rob scallon would do it if he hasn't already


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## Frederick (Sep 4, 2020)

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> Hey Frederick, when we created Phoenix Orchestra, authenticity was an important factor. Having Richard Harvey on board during the recordings was a huge advantage, allowing us to access the fascinating world of Chinese instruments and music.
> Phoenix Orchestra offers a variety of ornamental long notes. You can combine them with the legato transitions within SINE. The combination of pre-recorded ornaments and the playability of true legato makes the instruments intuitive to access this certain style without losing flexibility.
> 
> There are pros and cons regarding pre-recorded phrases, and there are multiple libraries out there offering this. We wanted to do things differently. We wanted to have them playable but in a very believable and authentic way.


Okay, okay.  I've preordered it already. Just on principle I think it's great you took a different approach. This way I have the benefit of choice, try that different approach when I'm not getting the result I'm looking for - I own a couple others that use phrases.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Sep 4, 2020)

I forgot to mention, beside the screencast, Richard Harvey himself will introduce us to the instruments and articulations of Phoenix Orchestra.


----------



## dzilizzi (Sep 4, 2020)

I need to upgrade Sine and test it out again. I haven't yet got it to work and I know I don't have the latest version. No more Sine libraries until I'm sure it works.


----------



## muziksculp (Sep 4, 2020)

Hi @Hendrik-Schwarzer ,

This was a super pleasant surprise for me, totally unexpected. But, an instant Pre-Order 

Although I purchased JADE Ethnic Orchestra earlier this year. Phoenix Orchestra will be another great Chinese Orchestral library to have.

I know this might be off topic, but as an owner of many of your Kontakt based Berlin Series libraries, I was curious to know if I can expect some more of these libraries to be available in SINE format this year ? i.e. Berlin Strings, First Chairs, Berlin Brass, Woods, Percussion..etc.

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## Brasart (Sep 4, 2020)

I have absolutely no need for this library (yet), but the demos sound fantastic, congrats!


----------



## Michael Antrum (Sep 4, 2020)

Is there a walkthrought yet, or is that still in the works just now....?

It does sound very interesting. I don't have anything quite like this, and it sounds very good indeed and the preorder price seems pretty fair.

I have managed to avoid all the summer sales, so I might just be tempted.


----------



## Ihnoc (Sep 4, 2020)

Seems like another gem. Looking forward to playing with these. Perhaps logistically impossible but I would have been interested in recordings at Teldex even more so. Japanese instrument library when?


----------



## Manaberry (Sep 4, 2020)

I know Harry was involved in Mulan score for quite some time besides Richard, but how did you guys manage to work together? Can you expand a little bit that part please? @OrchestralTools


----------



## Drundfunk (Sep 4, 2020)

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> good job on guessing. Was fascinated reading how close you were.


Well, auch ein blindes Huhn findet mal ein Korn xD. Good luck with this release! Sounds really good (as expected from your company. The sound quality is always top-notch). If at any point you're deciding to make the "actual" Richard Harvey Toolkit (with the instruments he is showcasing in the videos on your channel + many more) definitely count me in .


----------



## Technostica (Sep 4, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I don't think this is any different than selling orchestral samples.


Except that the instruments used here are much less well known if they are known at all compared with a Western Orchestra; by a Western audience. 
That makes a huge difference in some areas including playing them in an authentic style.


----------



## lp59burst (Sep 4, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> Is there a walkthrought yet, or is that still in the works just now....?
> 
> It does sound very interesting. I don't have anything quite like this, and it sounds very good indeed and the preorder price seems pretty fair.
> 
> I have managed to avoid all the summer sales, so I might just be tempted.



Definitely on my short list but, I'm waiting for an indepth walk-through too.


----------



## Ricgus3 (Sep 4, 2020)

what is this "a la Carte" many talk about here? can you buy individuall patches? I find very little information on the website except that I can pre-order it


----------



## dzilizzi (Sep 4, 2020)

Ricgus3 said:


> what is this "a la Carte" many talk about here? can you buy individuall patches? I find very little information on the website except that I can pre-order it


Once in the Sine player, you can buy individual patches or even mic mixes. Say you only want the trumpet with close mics, you can buy it. At least that is my understanding.


----------



## Geomir (Sep 4, 2020)

Ricgus3 said:


> what is this "a la Carte" many talk about here? can you buy individuall patches? I find very little information on the website except that I can pre-order it


If you check Berlin Inspire 1 and 2, Metropolis 1 and 2, and click on the "Instruments" tab, you will notice that since they made these libraries available for their Sine Player, you can indeed select and buy individual patches without having to spend a fortune.

This feature does not seem to be available yet in the Phoenix Orchestra. Maybe because it's still in the "pre-order phase"?


----------



## Kevinside (Sep 4, 2020)

The cine player is the showstopper for me... No AAX and the software is still buggy as hell...
But gz for this wonderful sounding library... Wow very impressing...


----------



## Scamper (Sep 4, 2020)

Really sounds like a great library and I almost wish I would need it, but well. Some day hopefully.



dzilizzi said:


> Once in the Sine player, you can buy individual patches or even mic mixes. Say you only want the trumpet with close mics, you can buy it. At least that is my understanding.



You can't get individual mics or patches, just individual instruments including all their articulations and mics. The price for the individual purchases is a tad higher than their relative share of the library would be, but it's still great to have the option.


----------



## dzilizzi (Sep 4, 2020)

Scamper said:


> You can't get individual mics or patches, just individual instruments including all their articulations and mics. The price for the individual purchases is a tad higher than their relative share of the library would be, but it's still great to have the option.


Okay, I must have misunderstood that part. I know you can download individual mics if you want so you don't have to download everything.


----------



## Scamper (Sep 4, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> Okay, I must have misunderstood that part. I know you can download individual mics if you want so you don't have to download everything.



Right, I actually also had the impression after the initial announcements, that you can buy individual mics, but even from a customer perspective that's not really fair for the developer.


----------



## dzilizzi (Sep 4, 2020)

Scamper said:


> Right, I actually also had the impression after the initial announcements, that you can buy individual mics, but even from a customer perspective that's not really fair for the developer.


It is if you charge enough!


----------



## AndyP (Sep 4, 2020)

Specs:

94.8 GB of samples (40.3 GB SINEarc compressed)
How much free disk space is needed to download the library?


----------



## JonS (Sep 4, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> off topic, but I'm not convinced she doesn't have a side gig as a black metal drummer.
> 
> her technique demonstrations kind of reinforce what I was saying about how these instruments for some reason get mistreated when sampled - when instruments like this have such a massive range



Wow is she talented!!!!!


----------



## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 4, 2020)

😭 Am I the only one who bought JEO?


----------



## Zhao Shen (Sep 4, 2020)

Wow, speak of the devil. Was dancing on the edge of getting JEO for the past months, but ultimately the legatos weren't convincing enough for me. This is an intriguing alternative, though I must say that there's an unfortunate lack of exposed erhu demos. The winds sound great, but I think I will wait for more erhu samples to surface before I look into this. I am a big fan of OT products, but the solo strings they've released in the past haven't been best-in-class.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Sep 4, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Hendrik-Schwarzer ,
> 
> This was a super pleasant surprise for me, totally unexpected. But, an instant Pre-Order
> 
> ...



Hey Muziksculp, we still keep the converting to SINE and made some good progress. We want to make it as good as we can and therefore we take the opportunity to tweak and polish the samples and legatos even more so that you can see it as a content update.
We just released Metropolis Ark 2 and Inspire 2, Collections from the Berlin Series are in the making.


----------



## Hendrik-Schwarzer (Sep 4, 2020)

Manaberry said:


> I know Harry was involved in Mulan score for quite some time besides Richard, but how did you guys manage to work together? Can you expand a little bit that part please? @OrchestralTools



It all happened a bit by accident. There was an evening in London at the bar at Dorchester Hotel were Richard Harvey, Tom R. and I met Harry Gregson-Williams and later on we had this idea to create a Chinese orchestra that Harry could use to write the score for Mulan.

I don't want to tell too much for now. A video with Harry will follow.


----------



## Technostica (Sep 4, 2020)

I wouldn't be surprised if the Dorchester is owned by a Chinese company these days. 
There may have been using subliminal techniques to influence the decision to create a library of Chinese instruments!


----------



## Kevinside (Sep 4, 2020)

I know its not a daily use library, but when needed, it is perfect... I am in definitly in... Cause you at OT know your skills and i know, i can use the "result" in the best way... I really hope Sine will advance to a stable and good stage to use it in every daw...


----------



## Nemoy (Sep 4, 2020)

@Nils Neumann Is there a short demo you can do showing off an exposed solo erhu? Or if anyone else who worked on the demos can do a short audio clip demonstrating the erhu by itself, that would be wonderful. As @Zhao Shen had pointed out, it's difficult getting the Erhu to sound convincing so I hope OT has taken great effort to finally getting this instrument to sounding authentic as much as they could. Thanks so much.


----------



## DimensionsTomorrow (Sep 4, 2020)

How stable is Sine in Logic?


----------



## Lassi Tani (Sep 5, 2020)

Sounds wonderful! I'd love to be in, but have been saving for JXL. I'm waiting for @ChrisSiuMusic to make a review .


----------



## Nils Neumann (Sep 5, 2020)

Nemoy said:


> @Nils Neumann Is there a short demo you can do showing off an exposed solo erhu? Or if anyone else who worked on the demos can do a short audio clip demonstrating the erhu by itself, that would be wonderful. As @Zhao Shen had pointed out, it's difficult getting the Erhu to sound convincing so I hope OT has taken great effort to finally getting this instrument to sounding authentic as much as they could. Thanks so much.


I’m pretty sure OT will make a walkthrough of all the instruments as usual


----------



## mr336 (Sep 5, 2020)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> How stable is Sine in Logic?


Evil Knievel comes to mind when I use SINE in Logic.


----------



## Jay Panikkar (Sep 5, 2020)

I was expecting Berlin Percussion but I'm glad I was wrong. PO seems like a very cool collection!


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Sep 5, 2020)

sekkosiki said:


> Sounds wonderful! I'd love to be in, but have been saving for JXL. I'm waiting for @ChrisSiuMusic to make a review .


Will do!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Sep 5, 2020)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> How stable is Sine in Logic?



There’s a known crash issue in the latest version. You can try the previous version but that also has crashed / locked up Logic for many folks.


----------



## SvenE (Sep 5, 2020)

Hendrik-Schwarzer said:


> It all happened a bit by accident. There was an evening in London at the bar at Dorchester Hotel were Richard Harvey, Tom R. and I met Harry Gregson-Williams and later on we had this idea to create a Chinese orchestra that Harry could use to write the score for Mulan.
> 
> I don't want to tell too much for now. A video with Harry will follow.


Hallo @Hendrik-Schwarzer, congratulations to this great sounding library! As a fellow German and frequent OT library user living in Bangkok, I am a bit curious about how you came to record the library at Karma Studios in Thailand?


----------



## jbuhler (Sep 5, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> There’s a known crash issue in the latest version. You can try the previous version but that also has crashed / locked up Logic for many folks.


Yes, I’ve taken to loading Sine instruments, bouncing them down and then disabling the Sine track so Logic can quit properly. I prefer working with OT instruments in Sine to Kontakt because Capsule has given me lots of issues too (and it’s a RAM hog) but I may be going back to Kontakt despite that for libraries where I have Kontakt versions. Because Sine has become too unstable. (Interestingly I didn’t have any issues with Sine until I got Amber but since then Sine has been very unstable and not just with Amber.)


----------



## AceAudioHQ (Sep 5, 2020)

Is there a suona in this library?


----------



## muziksculp (Sep 5, 2020)

AceAudioHQ said:


> Is there a suona in this library?



Edit : Yes, there is : Click on the Instruments Tab to see what's included.









Phoenix Orchestra


A contemporary Chinese chamber orchestra, offering a vibrant palette for creating authentic Chinese music—both ancient and modern—for your scores and productions. This collection was created and designed with Richard Harvey for Harry Gregson Williams and his score for Disney’s live-action Mulan...




www.orchestraltools.com


----------



## MA-Simon (Sep 5, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> No, I don't see it in the Instrument list.




*Gaoyin Suona *
Sustains
Sustains accented
Sustains ornament 1
Sustains ornament 2
Sustains ornament 3
Flutter tongue

* Legatos*
Legato

*Zhongyin Suona*
Sustains
Sustains accented
Sustains ornament 1
Sustains ornament 2
Sustains ornament 3
Sustains ornament 4
Staccato
Flutter tongue


* Legatos*
Legato


----------



## muziksculp (Sep 5, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> *Gaoyin Suona *
> Sustains
> Sustains accented
> Sustains ornament 1
> ...



Oooh I must have missed it. Sorry about that. I was looking for Suona, not Zhongyin as the key word.


----------



## AceAudioHQ (Sep 5, 2020)

Ah, great, same thing, wasn’t looking for it as a second word. Thought it might have been on another name, like I didn’t find dizi but it was as bangdi and qudi


----------



## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 5, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> off topic, but I'm not convinced she doesn't have a side gig as a black metal drummer.
> 
> her technique demonstrations kind of reinforce what I was saying about how these instruments for some reason get mistreated when sampled - when instruments like this have such a massive range



I was very disappointed when this ended. It was too abrupt. I wanted her to put it all together and give us a musical performance.


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 6, 2020)

Wrote this in the other thread about Phoenix Orchestra but figured I may get a response from OT in this one...

So I just watched Mulan. Great film and loved HGW’s music. Is this library anything to do with Mulan (a Phoenix was a big part of the story)?


----------



## Manaberry (Sep 6, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Oooh I must have missed it. Sorry about that. I was looking for Suona, not Zhongyin as the key word.



Ctrl+F will save you more than once.


----------



## sourcefor (Sep 6, 2020)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> How stable is Sine in Logic?


Not very..crashes every time I try to change articulations and or remove instance! Hope a fix is coming soon I have libraries just sitting there NOT getting used!


----------



## Rory (Sep 6, 2020)

I'd like to know what involvement people with a deep understanding of Chinese music and instruments had in making this library. It would also be helpful to know which of the audio demos were made by people with that background. Of the 12 demos on OT's site, only one Chinese name appears, in the capacity of co-writer of one track:


----------



## Drundfunk (Sep 6, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Wrote this in the other thread about Phoenix Orchestra but figured I may get a response from OT in this one...
> 
> So I just watched Mulan. Great film and loved HGW’s music. Is this library anything to do with Mulan (a Phoenix was a big part of the story)?


From their product page:...........

Commissioned to score Disney’s live-action _Mulan_ movie, composer Harry Gregson-Williams worked with Richard Harvey and Orchestral Tools to build a sample library that could conjure elements of ancient China within a powerful modern score. With the release of Phoenix Orchestra, now all composers can draw from the same library used to create _Mulan_. 

I mean dude, come on!


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 6, 2020)

Drundfunk said:


> I mean dude, come on!



Yes I read it last night. Should have deleted this question after I realised this. But hey, I’ve been working and didn’t think anyone would care. I’m not gonna lose any sleep over it


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Sep 6, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Yes I read it last night. Should have deleted this question after I realised this. But hey, I’ve been working and didn’t think anyone would care. I’m not gonna lose any sleep over it


You'll be losing sleep knowing I have more GB of string libraries than you 

...

okay maybe I'm not sure if I do, but anything to make you lose sleep. The master plan is to make you look like an actual wight, so buckle up you tales from the crypt lookin motherforte


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 6, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> You'll be losing sleep knowing I have more GB of string libraries than you



Wrong. I’m going to lose sleep thinking you have more GB of String libraries than me. It’s the not knowing that drives me insane.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Sep 6, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Wrong. I’m going to lose sleep thinking you have more GB of String libraries than me. It’s the not knowing that drives me insane.


I've planted the seed of doubt, and your transformation is almost complete


----------



## Beans (Sep 6, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I've planted the seed of doubt, and your transformation is almost complete



Get your Dark Lord of the Sith manipulatory tactics out of the Deals forum. Try Sample Talk, if you can't hold it in.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Sep 6, 2020)

Beans said:


> Get your Dark Lord of the Sith manipulatory tactics out of the Deals forum. Try Sample Talk, if you can't hold it in.


it works in OT's favor tbh. 

He'll be stuck brooding on the fact that I don't own Jade, and getting the non-western string ensembles would present him with a clear advantage over my string collection.


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 6, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I've planted the seed of doubt, and your transformation is almost complete



You can plant however many seeds you like because after a lot of brooding this evening, I'm now going to make a decision that will change destiny forever and I shall transform into an all knowing and sample hoarding imaginary Phoenix causing me to rise from the doubtful ashes of this shitty little dried up garden you keep hopelessly seeding and soar high away into holy Rice paddies and pastures, oriental and new for a possible martial arts indie feature I could be working on next year.

FFS... Lucky for you OT don't seem to accept Amex so I will return with another bank card ASAP to end this pathetic torment. And I would say sleep with one eye open but I know you'll have both of them open, losing sleep like a boss now. No mercy.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Sep 7, 2020)

Hey everyone,

Earlier this year, Harry Gregson-Williams (Shrek franchise, The Chronicles of Narnia, The Martian) invited us to his studio to talk about writing the score for Disney’s live action film Mulan, with the help of our Phoenix Orchestra.

Catch the interview here:




And you can check out Phoenix Orchestra for yourself here:
https://www.orchestraltools.com/store/collections/phoenix-orchestra

It's currently on pre-order offer: Only €299 instead of €499. Offer ends Sept 21.

Enjoy the video, and stay tuned for more Phoenix Orchestra action.

Best,

OT


----------



## Manaberry (Sep 7, 2020)

I could listen to Harry for hours.


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 7, 2020)

@ProfoundSilence

NOW the transformation is complete. Sleep tight.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Sep 7, 2020)

Wonderful to hear Harry's take on the score. The simplicity in the theme is something to remember.


----------



## Daniel James (Sep 7, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Wonderful to hear Harry's take on the score. The simplicity in the theme is something to remember.



I loved how he nails the Chinese feel but still manages to keep his distinctive voice in there. Can't wait to play with this one.

-DJ


----------



## David Kudell (Sep 7, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Wonderful to hear Harry's take on the score. The simplicity in the theme is something to remember.


Indeed, simple but so beautiful. The moment he plays it on the piano sounds so good.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Sep 7, 2020)

uggg i guess i have to watch mulan while conciouslessly telling myself i dont need this. I didn't realize that this was a chicken before the egg scenario with that score... and yeah, I can TOTALLY see why he'd want to use samples at some point... OT knows how to record things without excess saturation, distortion, and excellent gain staging. 

if anyone would be so inclined, Ialways loved legends empire part 1 and 2 from hamka

if you could just make an instrumental east asian instrumental powermetal album for me with this I'd be much appreciated. pro tip: the drumkit from ark 1 can actually sound pretty good


----------



## Lassi Tani (Sep 7, 2020)

Now eagerly waiting for a walkthrough!  Nice to hear that the library was made for a real need.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Sep 8, 2020)

More Phoenix goodies...

During the recording sessions for Phoenix Orchestra, we spoke to Richard Harvey about his career as a composer and instrumentalist, and about his enviable collection of instruments from around the world.

Now that Phoenix Orchestra is finally announced, we'd like to share this interview with you. Enjoy:





This is also a good opportunity to extend a big thank you to Chris Kraker and his team at https://www.karmasoundstudios.com/. Highly recommended!


----------



## Kevinside (Sep 8, 2020)

I make the preorder, cause i think OT will give a full chinese Orchestra...
And about the score of Mulan... My personal opinion...
Its a HGW score, nothing more... It sounds like i get through my wardrobe again and reach Narnia now with some chinese instruments... cool...


----------



## muddyblue (Sep 8, 2020)

sourcefor said:


> Not very..crashes every time I try to change articulations and or remove instance! Hope a fix is coming soon I have libraries just sitting there NOT getting used!


Today I had contact with the support from OT about the actual sine player issue. They said "..they have found an issue in 1.0.4 which affects mainly Logic and the upcoming version 1.05 is now super stable."


----------



## ansthenia (Sep 8, 2020)

muddyblue said:


> Today I had contact with the support from OT about the actual sine player issue. They said "..they have found an issue in 1.0.4 which affects mainly Logic and the upcoming version 1.05 is now super stable."


Good news! I hope it's updated to 1.0.5 in time for Phoenix Orchestra's release.


----------



## OrchestralTools (Sep 9, 2020)

Hey everyone

We know a lot of you have been waiting for it... Here's the walkthrough AKA screencast video for Phoenix Orchestra:




It takes you on a quick tour of the individual instruments and sections in the library, demonstrates the various mic positions, and provides a little background.

Note that in the walkthrough, we refer to some other videos that aren't published just yet. They're coming very soon, so please be patient—we think they'll be worth the wait. In those videos, Richard Harvey will provide a detailed look at the individual instruments in Phoenix Orchestra.

Enjoy the walkthrough!

Best,

OT


----------



## Lionel Schmitt (Sep 9, 2020)

The sound of these recordings is truly pristine and clean and the room seems to be great! As someone who spends most of the time EQuing bad resonances etc this is much appreciated!


----------



## JonS (Sep 9, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone
> 
> We know a lot of you have been waiting for it... Here's the walkthrough AKA screencast video for Phoenix Orchestra:
> 
> ...



Sounds fantastic!!! Great work!!!


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Sep 9, 2020)

I can see exactly why he'd want to leave some the samples in the final score


----------



## Lassi Tani (Sep 9, 2020)

Sounds amazing! I love the different vibratos in the walkthrough, and also a lot of articulations. This is hard to pass.


----------



## VivianaSings (Sep 10, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> I think there's zero chance. SINE.



They missed a chance to rename it "SINO" for this library.


----------



## muddyblue (Sep 11, 2020)

SINE 1.0.5. is just released. (Just testing it, seems stable now ...for the Logic users!)


----------



## OrchestralTools (Sep 14, 2020)

Hey everyone

We've got something very special for you: You're invited to a *live Q&A* with none other than *Richard Harvey*.

He'll be answering your questions on Phoenix Orchestra, Chinese instruments, his extensive instrument collection, his career, composition, or anything else you'd like to know.

*Friday September 18, 10 am LA | 6 pm London*, here on VI Control.

Richard Harvey is Hollywood’s go to multi-instrumentalist for unusual instruments, and an acclaimed composer who has collaborated with artists ranging from Paul McCartney and Elvis Costello to Hans Zimmer and John Williams. TV and film highlights include The Little Prince, Luther, and The Da Vinci Code.

This is a unique opportunity—mark your calendars!




See you Friday, if not before.

Best,

OT


----------



## Beans (Sep 15, 2020)

> The Collection will be available in *6* days.



Just to be clear, when does this intro offer expire? For example, does it expire just as Germany turns over to September 21st? Thank you. @OrchestralTools


----------



## OrchestralTools (Sep 16, 2020)

Beans said:


> Just to be clear, when does this intro offer expire? For example, does it expire just as Germany turns over to September 21st? Thank you. @OrchestralTools



Hi Beans,

The offer will end on September 21 at 23.59pm, Los Angeles time.

Best,

OT


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Sep 16, 2020)

Man, Richard Harvey is so damn cool. 

That said - I'm fairly certain Rob Scallon was a lab experiment made from DNA extracted from RH's toe nail clippings spliced with Bam Margera.


----------



## Sunny Schramm (Sep 16, 2020)




----------



## OrchestralTools (Sep 17, 2020)

Hey everyone

Don't forget—tomorrow is the Q&A with Richard Harvey!
Join us and Richard here on VI Control tomorrow: (Friday September 18) *10 am LA* | *6 pm London*.

We'll be posting the link to the Q&A thread on this thread too, but you can also keep an eye on the Latest Posts feed shortly before.

See you there!

Best,

OT


----------



## OrchestralTools (Sep 18, 2020)

Hey everyone,

The Q&A with Richard Harvey starts in less than 30 minutes!

Here's the link to the thread:





Phoenix Orchestra: Q&A with Richard Harvey


Hey everyone, The Q&A with Richard Harvey starts in less than 30 minutes! In the meantime, we just released a new video, where Richard explores the plucked instruments of Phoenix Orchestra: During the Q&A, to ask Richard a question (whether about Phoenix Orchestra, Chinese instruments, his...




vi-control.net





See you there!

Best,

OT


----------



## Kevperry777 (Sep 18, 2020)

1.05 is EXTREMELY stable. Best version of SINE I have used.


----------



## Larbguy (Sep 18, 2020)

Kevperry777 said:


> 1.05 is EXTREMELY stable. Best version of SINE I have used.


wrong thread, but i totally agree. i feel the power of stable SINE coursing through me, its awesome


----------



## Kevperry777 (Sep 18, 2020)

Ah sorry, I am a bit late....was responding to muddy blue above.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Sep 18, 2020)

that plucked sounded superb, trying to resist


----------



## jononotbono (Sep 18, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> that plucked sounded superb, trying to resist



It makes me so happy to see that you're still doing this to yourself. Must feel like an eternity by this point.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Sep 19, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> It makes me so happy to see that you're still doing this to yourself. Must feel like an eternity by this point.


I know I wont use it, so im trying to be extra strong


----------



## AndyP (Sep 19, 2020)

After careful consideration I could not resist.
Not so much because I really want to make Chinese music, but because I like the hybrid mixture of classical Asian music and European music.
As a big Sakamoto fan this is actually a duty purchase. And because I've been there before, I took the Majestic Horn as well.
When Jade is on sale again I will take this as well.


----------



## Mystic (Sep 19, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I know I wont use it, so im trying to be extra strong


This is where I am. I love the sound, I love the control, I know I won't be using it in any upcoming projects any time soon. I'd love to have it in my arsenal but everyone seems to be releasing new products at once right now so I need to focus on the stuff I know I'll use right away. Sucks I know I'll miss out on the intro price and that irritates me because OT doesn't do sales often if at all but gotta be responsible about it.


----------



## Beans (Sep 20, 2020)

I clicked that pre-order button this morning. I already own JEO, but watching the primary Walkthrough video and the Plucked video for the fourth time - this time, while having JEO open - did it for me.


----------



## emilio_n (Sep 20, 2020)

I have the order page open too, moving the mouse around the buy button...
I do not need it. I've spent a lot more money on libraries this year than I'd like to admit, and I don't even make a living as a musician. Anyway, I think I'll end up buying it. It is going to be very difficult to find Phoenix at this price in the near future, I love how it's sound and finally, SINE looks really stable with the last update. (Fix all my problems with MA1 & MA2)


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## Beans (Sep 20, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> I do not need it. I've spent a lot more money on libraries this year than I'd like to admit, and I don't even make a living as a musician.



While it's obviously smart to live within your means, it's fine if a hobby is expensive. Many years ago, I lived next to the best gardener I've ever met. He had the tallest sunflowers, the largest pumpkins, the most amazing tomatoes. He was constantly refining his techniques, sometimes with expensive equipment as he experimented with various methods. Yet, he never sold a penny's worth his entire life (he was in his 70s at the time).


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## emilio_n (Sep 20, 2020)

Beans said:


> While it's obviously smart to live within your means, it's fine if a hobby is expensive. Many years ago, I lived next to the best gardener I've ever met. He had the tallest sunflowers, the largest pumpkins, the most amazing tomatoes. He was constantly refining his techniques, sometimes with expensive equipment as he experimented with various methods. Yet, he never sold a penny's worth his entire life (he was in his 70s at the time).


I totally agree with you but it is always easier to spend money when there is some possibility of a return, except if you are very rich, of course!
This is an expensive hobby, but also one of the most satisfying when you love music.


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## Cheezus (Sep 20, 2020)

I'm smelling a lot of FOMO today.


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## emilio_n (Sep 20, 2020)

Cheezus said:


> I'm smelling a lot of FOMO today.


FOMO and GAS in equal parts :-D


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## doctoremmet (Sep 20, 2020)




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## Beans (Sep 20, 2020)

emilio_n said:


> I totally agree with you but it is always easier to spend money when there is some possibility of a return, except if you are very rich, of course!
> This is an expensive hobby, but also one of the most satisfying when you love music.



I drive a 2006 Honda Civic that's been paid off since 2009. I'll allow myself these libraries that I'll never "need."  Plus, as just a hobby, I don't have to justify purchases based on potential projects!


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## AndyP (Sep 20, 2020)

Beans said:


> While it's obviously smart to live within your means, it's fine if a hobby is expensive. Many years ago, I lived next to the best gardener I've ever met. He had the tallest sunflowers, the largest pumpkins, the most amazing tomatoes. He was constantly refining his techniques, sometimes with expensive equipment as he experimented with various methods. Yet, he never sold a penny's worth his entire life (he was in his 70s at the time).


Making music for fun is fun, making music for living is a hard business and not always fun.


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## easyrider (Sep 20, 2020)

Ask yourself would you buy it at €499

If not then you are probably just buying cause it’s €299


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## Chungus (Sep 20, 2020)

I gotta say, given the esoteric nature of these instruments, the pre-order period ending tomorrow and the first walkthrough not really covering the instruments all that thoroughly, the instrument-specific walkthroughs should have really be uploaded in full already.

I'm not gonna get this this lib because I have no use for it (although it does sound great), but if this was something I wanted, having things be this opaque would leave me pretty miffed.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Sep 20, 2020)

Chungus said:


> I gotta say, given the esoteric nature of these instruments, the pre-order period ending tomorrow and the first walkthrough not really covering the instruments all that thoroughly, the instrument-specific walkthroughs should have really be uploaded in full already.
> 
> I'm not gonna get this this lib because I have no use for it (although it does sound great), but if this was something I wanted, having things be this opaque would leave me pretty miffed.


Yep. 100%. The cat in the bag is meowing like crazy while the owner charges 299 already. 

I find that even the instrument specific walkthrough (the one we graciously were allowed to see) didn't cover much of the actual sound of the instruments and articulations. A few notes here and there...
mostly info about the actual instruments, which is great - but not really great for an educated decision of whether to get the VST or not.

(can't get it anyway, just a general observation/opinion)


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## ansthenia (Sep 20, 2020)

DarkestShadow said:


> but not really great for an educated decision of whether to get the VST or not.


Yup. Learning about the instruments is interesting, but I can get the same instruments in other libraries, I want to know why I should go with this one instead, i.e I really only care about how they sound/play in this specific library when considering a purchase.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Sep 20, 2020)

Worth posting again if not done already. Alex Pfeffer shows off some of the instruments more than the official walkthroughs - later in the video after the track breakdown.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 21, 2020)

Well, the plucked walkthrough shook my faith - but I held out and didn't pre-order. 

The sections that I was most interested in didn't get walkthroughs and it's the last day of pre-order. My wallet is safe until next time.


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## emilio_n (Sep 21, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Ask yourself would you buy it at €499
> 
> If not then you are probably just buying cause it’s €299


At least not now. Actually I will not buy anything with this price until I recover for my last acquisitions. 300$ is a lot of, but I can afford to have a nice Chinese library. 500$ is a pass to me. 

But is true, without any full walkthrough maybe I will keep my wallet safe.


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## Lassi Tani (Sep 21, 2020)

Is it released today?


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## Lionel Schmitt (Sep 21, 2020)

sekkosiki said:


> Is it released today?


Since we're not in a Chris Nolan movie it isn't released today. But it *will* be released today


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Sep 21, 2020)

Honestly, I wish the world could adopt some sort of super clock. Especially being Australian, I have no idea what time, date or season it is in the rest of the world.

Releases on the 21st? Sweet when's that? Friday next week last monday in Australia


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## Beans (Sep 21, 2020)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Releases on the 21st?



And the funny thing is, now the Phoenix page itself reads, "The Collection will be available soon."

Soon?! That's even less specific!

With that said, OT said 


> The offer will end on September 21 at 23.59pm, Los Angeles time.



Unless it's not a true pre-order price, this _could_ mean that it will go live once LA hits September 22nd.


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## Beans (Sep 21, 2020)

It looks like the offer ended early. Now 399,00 €...


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## Levon (Sep 21, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi Beans,
> 
> The offer will end on September 21 at 23.59pm, Los Angeles time.
> 
> ...


Hi OT,
It is currently 6:26am Los Angeles time and the offer appears to have already ended despite your statement above? Can you please clarify? I had been planning to purchase later today at the $299 entry price.
Cheers,
Paul.


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## Beans (Sep 21, 2020)

Levon said:


> Hi OT,
> It is currently 6:26am Los Angeles time and the offer appears to have already ended despite your statement above? Can you please clarify? I had been planning to purchase later today at the $299 entry price.
> Cheers,
> Paul.



Yeah, I did my pre-order yesterday, but I was quite close to delaying through late today in the hope that a new video would show more exposed solo strings and winds. I imagine others were doing the same.

I'm sure this is just some crossed wires, but it'd be lovely if it could be reverted for those who were still hovering over that button.


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## Levon (Sep 21, 2020)

Beans said:


> Yeah, I did my pre-order yesterday, but I was quite close to delaying through late today in the hope that a new video would show more exposed solo strings and winds. I imagine others were doing the same.
> 
> I'm sure this is just some crossed wires, but it'd be lovely if it could be reverted for those who were still hovering over that button.


Yes I was holding off in the hope that there might be a last minute walkthrough being released seen as they had stated the offer was up until end of the day LA time. Disappointed. Afraid I won't be purchasing at $399.


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## MA-Simon (Sep 21, 2020)

Phoenix Orchestra


A contemporary Chinese chamber orchestra, offering a vibrant palette for creating authentic Chinese music—both ancient and modern—for your scores and productions. This collection was created and designed with Richard Harvey for Harry Gregson Williams and his score for Disney’s live-action Mulan...




www.orchestraltools.com




Just noticed, there are now audio demos for each individual instrument!


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## Lionel Schmitt (Sep 21, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> Phoenix Orchestra
> 
> 
> A contemporary Chinese chamber orchestra, offering a vibrant palette for creating authentic Chinese music—both ancient and modern—for your scores and productions. This collection was created and designed with Richard Harvey for Harry Gregson Williams and his score for Disney’s live-action Mulan...
> ...


Always the case for Sine instruments with individual purchase option (so, all except Creative Soundpacks).


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## jononotbono (Sep 21, 2020)

Cheezus said:


> I'm smelling a lot of FOMO today.



Had to look up what FOMO meant! 😂
The smell of FOMO is undeniable!


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## emilio_n (Sep 21, 2020)

Levon said:


> Yes I was holding off in the hope that there might be a last minute walkthrough being released seen as they had stated the offer was up until end of the day LA time. Disappointed. Afraid I won't be purchasing at $399.


Same here. I thought still have a few hours to decide. With 399€ I am out :-(
@OrchestralTools , any error with the pre-order offer that you can fix?


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## MA-Simon (Sep 21, 2020)

I mean with only 15-30€ per instrument, you do not need to buy it all, just pick what you need.


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## emilio_n (Sep 21, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi Beans,
> 
> The offer will end on September 21 at 23.59pm, Los Angeles time.
> 
> ...


Just to quote the original post...


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## MA-Simon (Sep 21, 2020)

Well, it does seem it IS already released early, because I am currently downloading the library via Sine. To bad about the timing for you...

Maybe they will contact you?

Congrats on the Release! Very much looking forward to playing with these later!!!


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## emilio_n (Sep 21, 2020)

Yes, looks like... Strange when usually some people wait until the last minute to buy. They released more than 12 hours in advance. I guess some people will be in the same situation and maybe don't buy at this price.


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## OrchestralTools (Sep 21, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi Beans,
> 
> The offer will end on September 21 at 23.59pm, Los Angeles time.
> 
> ...



Hey everyone,

Our apologies, 'wires crossed' is an accurate description of what went wrong here. The plan was always to switch the offers today, because today is the day Phoenix Orchestra is actually released.

Hope you can forgive this error. For those of who were waiting until the very last minute to buy (looking at you @emilio_n and @Levon ) and you'd like to get Phoenix Orchestra at the pre-order price, please email [email protected], including the words 'VI Control date scandal' in the subject line. It's only fair that you should get the pre-order price. We'll sort you out.

Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for all your interest in Phoenix Orchestra so far.

Best,

OT


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## Beans (Sep 21, 2020)

I just wanted to say that my download just completed, and was pretty darn fast. I only had one issue, in that one instrument's Surround mic didn't properly unpack. I redownloaded it in SINE with no repeated problem. Glad it was so easy to self-resolve, and it's great that SINE "recognized" that it was still missing.

I'm pretty mad, though... today is my wedding anniversary, so I bet I won't be able to play with this today (standard work day and then some home festivities).

EDIT:


> VI Control date scandal


That's hilarious!


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## PeterN (Sep 21, 2020)

Im getting this library bcs war is coming and it will be handy.


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## emilio_n (Sep 21, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Our apologies, 'wires crossed' is an accurate description of what went wrong here. The plan was always to switch the offers today, because today is the day Phoenix Orchestra is actually released.
> 
> ...


Downloading now. Thanks, @OrchestralTools !


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## muziksculp (Sep 21, 2020)




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## StefanE (Sep 21, 2020)

@OrchestralTools Thanks a lot for being so fair!


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## Levon (Sep 21, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Our apologies, 'wires crossed' is an accurate description of what went wrong here. The plan was always to switch the offers today, because today is the day Phoenix Orchestra is actually released.
> 
> ...


Thanks @OrchestralTools, much appreciated!


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## Maximvs (Sep 21, 2020)

I would like to say that the possibility to purchase individual instruments from the Phoenix Orchestra library is something I like a lot and I wish other developers will start doing this, my hat off to OT for adopting this a-là-carte approach...

I would like to ask Orchestral Tools if later on, after purchasing some individual instruments, there is a possibility to receive a special corssgrade price towards the purchase of the full library.

Many thanks, Max


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## Donny Grace (Sep 21, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hi Beans,
> 
> The offer will end on September 21 at 23.59pm, Los Angeles time.
> 
> ...



The Pre-Order actually ended at the end of September *20*, not 21. I saw this and almost waited until today. Sure glad I went ahead and ordered last night.


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## JoshJay (Sep 21, 2020)

OrchestralTools said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Our apologies, 'wires crossed' is an accurate description of what went wrong here. The plan was always to switch the offers today, because today is the day Phoenix Orchestra is actually released.
> 
> ...



Longtime lurker, first time poster haha. Is the promo code not working for anyone else?


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## Simon Ravn (Sep 22, 2020)

My god! This sounds SOOOO good. The recordings are exquisite! Just playing around with the yangqin and guzheng puts a huge smile on my face. Haven't listened to the winds yet, but the standard on the plucked stuff is SO high. Stereo perspective, detail in the recordings is just better than anything else done in this genre so far!

EDIT: Just tried the xiao... wow! Same thing, and soooo deep sampled with 3 different types of vibrato, ornaments etc. All sounding amazing!


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## Lionel Schmitt (Sep 22, 2020)

Massimo said:


> I would like to say that the possibility to purchase individual instruments from the Phoenix Orchestra library is something I like a lot and I wish other developers will start doing this, my hat off to OT for adopting this a-là-carte approach...
> 
> I would like to ask Orchestral Tools if later on, after purchasing some individual instruments, there is a possibility to receive a special corssgrade price towards the purchase of the full library.
> 
> Many thanks, Max


That option is in place. You should see your reduced price on the full collection page when logged after buying individual instruments and there is also a "complete collection" button in the 'my licences' window.


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## Maximvs (Sep 22, 2020)

DarkestShadow said:


> That option is in place. You should see your reduced price on the full collection page when logged after buying individual instruments and there is also a "complete collection" button in the 'my licences' window.


Many thanks for your kind reply and feedback...

Cheers, Max


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## aboxcar (Sep 22, 2020)

I'm trying to get the "qudi" to sound more legato. On some intervals, when playing the 2nd note, it produces a fluttering, double-tongue sound on the 'attack'

is anyone hearing this? how do I fix it? if I play the individual pitches non-legato, the attack doesn't have that sound


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## David Kudell (Sep 22, 2020)

aboxcar said:


> I'm trying to get the "qudi" to sound more legato. On some intervals, when playing the 2nd note, it produces a fluttering, double-tongue sound on the 'attack'
> 
> is anyone hearing this? how do I fix it? if I play the individual pitches non-legato, the attack doesn't have that sound


I'm not hearing what you describe. The legato on the quid sounds really beautiful to me. Maybe something in your legato settings got tweaked?


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## Beans (Sep 22, 2020)

aboxcar said:


> I'm trying to get the "qudi" to sound more legato. On some intervals, when playing the 2nd note, it produces a fluttering, double-tongue sound on the 'attack'
> 
> is anyone hearing this? how do I fix it? if I play the individual pitches non-legato, the attack doesn't have that sound



Can you provide a midi example? We can load in the same articulation to verify if we hear the same issue under the same CC values.


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## aboxcar (Sep 22, 2020)

Beans said:


> Can you provide a midi example? We can load in the same articulation to verify if we hear the same issue under the same CC values.


try A4 to F#4. it produces a kind of "hiccuping" attack. B4 to F#4 doesn't do it

I'm in cubase, it might be A5 to F#5

G4 to D4 sounds fine. A4 to D4 "hiccups" again

I think it must be the samples...


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## David Kudell (Sep 22, 2020)

A4 to F#4 sounding good here. What vibrato setting are you using? CC4 controls the vibrato - on the highest setting (expr via) I hear a small dip in volume on the F#4 after that transition, perhaps that's what you're referring to. If so, just move the cc4 fader down a bit to one of the other 3 vibrato options for the transition.


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## muziksculp (Sep 24, 2020)




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## muziksculp (Sep 28, 2020)




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## jononotbono (Sep 30, 2020)

If anyone is interested, I made a video on the Phoenix Orchestra. Specifically me trying to write music with it which is probably a car crash as I've never written music with Chinese Instruments before. Still, it was amazing fun having a play around with it!


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## Markrs (Sep 30, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> If anyone is interested, I made a video on the Phoenix Orchestra. Specifically me trying to write music with it which is probably a car crash as I've never written music with Chinese Instruments before. Still, it was amazing fun having a play around with it!



Noticed this when it came up on my YouTube feed. Kudos for making and recording a 6 hour video on this!


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## Maxime Luft (Sep 30, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> If anyone is interested, I made a video on the Phoenix Orchestra. Specifically me trying to write music with it which is probably a car crash as I've never written music with Chinese Instruments before. Still, it was amazing fun having a play around with it!



hats off to your VFX


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## jononotbono (Sep 30, 2020)

Markrs said:


> Noticed this when it came up on my YouTube feed. Kudos for making and recording a 6 hour video on this!



No worries man! Hope it's of some use!


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## babylonwaves (Oct 1, 2020)

just a headsup for those who were asking: the expression maps and articualtion sets are done. details can be found in the commercial annoucement section and of course on the website.

🥟🥟🥟 🐼🐼🐼 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳


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## OrchestralTools (Oct 2, 2020)

Hey everyone,

Don't forget—the Phoenix Orchestra intro offer ends in 3 days (October 5).
It's the last chance to save on the whole collection!

Find out more on Phoenix Orchestra here:








Phoenix Orchestra


A contemporary Chinese chamber orchestra, offering a vibrant palette for creating authentic Chinese music—both ancient and modern—for your scores and productions. This collection was created and designed with Richard Harvey for Harry Gregson Williams and his score for Disney’s live-action Mulan...




www.orchestraltools.com










Best,

OT


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## holywilly (Oct 5, 2020)

Is OT's server down? Purchased and not able to connect to the server to download.


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## jononotbono (Oct 10, 2020)

I finally finished writing my first piece of music with The Phoenix Orchestra and Dagu perc and made a short video on it if anyone fancies checking out what I ended up coming with. It’s back to the Great Wall one last time! 😂


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## aboxcar (Oct 14, 2020)

I love the sound of this library, but there are just not enough velocity layers and the velocity transitions are not smooth...

I'm finding it difficult to use


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