# Short Article: "Why John Williams isn't A Great Composer"



## Parsifal666 (Feb 18, 2017)

Some of the points in this article have been brought up here (please know in advance that I'm a big fan of John's music, been listening for over forty years...to be completely honest I thought parts of this little article were outright, unintentionally hilarious). The OP seemed to have a hard time with the English language, but he seems pretty clear I think. Here's the quote, you can check out the entire conversation at the link below:

"I am a music major and i have spent my whole life trying to understand music/prefect it. (Yes I know either isn't possible) John William isn't a highly skilled or talented composer like everyone believe him to be. My main argument for is that while he does write a good melody he doesnt do anything with it. ill use the Indiana Jones theme song as an example




for this but all of his works fall under this same category. While we do have a pretty memorable melody what the harmony and rhythm behind it is very unimaginative and quite boring. let me ask you what does it do besides beat out a basic rhythm and the basic chord. This isnt so bad a lot of good composer suffer from this but what makes it worse is the fact he does very little to change up the theme besides put it in a different key. Wheres the variation? wheres the augmentation or diminution (to make the melody longer or shorter) why cant he find a good way to meld the fast and the slow section together? So why are we fine with this as listeners? so if something as a good melody we are willing to accepted all its faults and phrase it? Do you want to know the kicker John Williams Only writes the melody of a piece he hires out other composers to do everything else. He is supposed to be the most skilled composer of my generation? I am the only person who finds this unacceptable? in college we never play him and we use him as an example of bad writing in some cases. He isn't skilled, and he doesn't have the skill enough to write something that isn't a part of a movie score. tell me honestly would you even know of the imperial march if it wasn't a part of the star wars movies?

Now i want to show an example of good music writing. I will use a melody that everyone knows. Its from Brahms symphony 2. Its the famous lullaby




is probably how most of us know the tune (this isn't my example piece but i am just showing the melody that we all know). Great melody isn't it. Reminds us all of pleasant childhood days or of sleeping. If we listen to the original symphony where it came from



(listen to the first 5 minutes please) we dont even hear that famous melody until 2:50 seconds into it It starts of with a complete different melody and it blends into the lullaby so beautifully. This as a piece goes place and does so many wonderfully things with the variation on said melody. The harmoys almost sound as if the were the melody them selves and the whole thing is just well written from every standpoint. Chords are complex but enjoyable. melody is simple but the varations end up making it complex as well.

Forgive spelling errors (i did proof this but at the end of the day i am not a good speller)."


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.234306-John-Williams-and-why-he-isnt-a-great-composer


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## tack (Feb 18, 2017)

Dubious tactic using Indiana Jones as a JW archetype and attacking that. It somewhat misses the point: the Raiders theme is _supposed _to be a little campy and on the nose, isn't it.


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## G.R. Baumann (Feb 19, 2017)

> He isn't skilled, and he doesn't have the skill enough to write something that isn't a part of a movie score.



The enormous, one must question whether on purpose or plain stupid, failure here is to compare John's Filmmusic to symphonic work of a classical composer such as Brahms. 

Apart from that, some of which has never been released or performed to date:

http://www.johnwilliams.org/compositions/concert


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## jononotbono (Feb 19, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> John William isn't a highly skilled or talented composer like everyone believe him to be.



Yep JW is absolutely useless. Terrible composer.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 19, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Yep JW is absolutely useless. Terrible composer.



LOL! Somehow I sense snickering in this post.

Williams is pretty darn extraordinary in my book. He doesn't need anyone to defend him. All composers repeat themselves.

Also, all composers need to eat.


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## Mithrandir (Feb 19, 2017)

I read "theme song" in the first few sentences, so I skipped the rest altogether.


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## AdamAlake (Feb 19, 2017)

Has not even finished his college education and already feels like an expert with the mission to enlighten us all. How surprising.


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## cygnusdei (Feb 21, 2017)

Is there truth to the ghost-orchestrating practice? I heard the same with Andrew Lloyd-Webber.


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## Kejero (Feb 23, 2017)

cygnusdei said:


> Is there truth to the ghost-orchestrating practice? I heard the same with Andrew Lloyd-Webber.


Not from what I've heard. Conrad Pope (his orchestrator on many projects) has mentioned on multiple occasions that JW's compositions leave little room for interpretation, that every note is there. This is the first time I've ever heard something like this said about JW.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 23, 2017)

Kejero said:


> Not from what I've heard. Conrad Pope (his orchestrator on many projects) has mentioned on multiple occasions that JW's compositions leave little room for interpretation, that every note is there. This is the first time I've ever heard something like this said about JW.



It was the first time for me as well. Shoot, you can find youtube videos of Williams conducting one of the Star Wars movies, film running, and he is still refining the composition between bouts of conducting, telling the instrumentalists exactly what he wants, making apparent (though comparatively slight) changes. Unless I'm misinterpreting the manifold videos I've seen, John is utmost active during the composition process, as well as being his own editor, orchestrator, everything. Looks like an incredibly hard worker...like Mahler in that regard (but even busier).

Again, I could be wrong,


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## NoamL (Feb 24, 2017)

cygnusdei said:


> Is there truth to the ghost-orchestrating practice?



It's categorically untrue. His short scores are detailed and complete.


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## NoamL (Feb 24, 2017)

Here, don't take my word for it.

(This youtuber should probably not be sharing JW sketch scores online, but... man it pisses me off that people spread this disrespectful rumor about such a great composer)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 7, 2017)

He's beyond awesome. When he does Wagner, he out-Wagners Wagner. Or Holst, etc.

Plus some of his scores are totally original, not the big symphonic sound he's known for - Images" and "Missouri Breaks," for example.


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## Parsifal666 (Mar 8, 2017)

I think it's safe to say that it's hard to top Williams for film music. Now that maestro Goldsmith is passed, I think in film the only living composers I see with his kind of influence are probably Shore, Zimmer...maybe Elfman.

I've heard arguments that John is the greatest living composer. But that's forgetting Penderecki, Gorecki, Rihm (and probably manifold other, excellent living composers, so please forgive).


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