# Learning orchestral compositions on piano/midi keyboard



## Bradley Swaff (Mar 20, 2016)

Hi everyone,

I am a new member... I really appreciate this site, it's exactly what I needed. Before I ask my question, let me explain were I am at this point. I've had plenty of industry experience, working as an A&R assistant, and playing guitar since a very early age. I graduated from The Recording Workshop in, the summer of 2000. I've kept up to date with Ableton, Pro Tools, and all the last VST & virtual Kontakt instruments. I've bought most all the latest 'Hybrid orchestral' libraries, and learned how to use them via YouTube. I've been studying as many tutorials as possible, but I don't see any that truly explain techniques of how great ostinatos, arpeggios, and such work. I don't know how to read music very well, I'm learning, but I'm just not there yet. 

My question is, are there any sites or downloads I can find to help teach the technique of action, drama, love story, and cinematic material. I found a site that sells cubase MIDI templates of Hans Zimmer & a few other of the greats, but I'm afraid it looks a bit sketchy, I don't want to pay someone for illegal material. I apologize if my question is a bit vague, for example, if I can find a book or video that breaks down the process of writing ostinatos within a chord, or something that explains what chords or scales to use for action compositions, etc. Or maybe I could even learn how to convert a short staccato audio sample into midi, and learn from others that way? I hope you all see what I'm getting at here. 

Thank you all for your time


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## Dave Connor (Mar 20, 2016)

You may have some level of success emphasizing ostinatos as a matter of study and you will learn doing so. However, that would be quite a narrow slice of what you will want to know regarding the composition process. You may want to employ a more encompassing study strategy and even consider studying composition outright rather than a piecemeal approach. Otherwise you will constantly be chasing after some aspect you want to learn which is most likely too inefficient to realize your aspirations.


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## Bradley Swaff (Mar 20, 2016)

Dave Connor said:


> You may have some level of success emphasizing ostinatos as a matter of study and you will learn doing so. However, that would be quite a narrow slice of what you will want to know regarding the composition process. You may want to employ a more encompassing study strategy and even consider studying composition outright rather than a piecemeal approach. Otherwise you will constantly be chasing after some aspect you want to learn which is most likely too inefficient to realize your aspirations.


Yes, that makes sense... I should have mentioned that first actually. I need an beginner to mid level study on the composition process more so than all I mentioned. Hopefully I can find the right materials to make me a better pianist as well. Thank you for your thoughts.


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## Maestro1972 (Mar 20, 2016)

I know this is probably considered an overplayed hand here in VI but I would send you to Mike Verta mikeverta.com. Check out his "Master Classes". He is BIG on transcribing scores. In the event you don't know what transcribing is: listen to a score, write on paper what you think is being played, check it with the actual score. You will learn a lot from this exercise.

I personally do mockups of different scores that I like that have elements that closely match what I am trying to create/replicate. I am currently mocking up "The Race" by Mike Verta and taking a break from all the John Williams themes. I have learned SO MUCH in just mocking up the introduction. Mock Ups and Transcribing are probably going to be your best route in seeing how others execute different aspects of orchestration, including the use of ostinatos.

Back to Verta's Master Classes...I have purchased 8 of them and I have not been disappointed by any of them. I am highly recommending them. I believe he is still offering his buy 2 classes and get one free. Do a search for MASTERCLASS in the forum search and there is a thread about it which contains a link within.

Good Luck!


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## ed buller (Mar 21, 2016)

Hi Bradley

welcome. You will find a lot of help here. I also recommend Mike. He has a 3 for 2 deal at the moment too. 


Also this is very good. Simple stuff but very helpful in explaining moods and how to achieve them :

https://www.askvideo.com/course/music-scoring-101-creating-moods-and-styles



also:

it's a little silly at times but the information is vital.





and




Basically the language of a lot of the music that you hear in films relies very heavily on " Intervalic Economy" simply put...using very few notes. And the notes themselves are very suggestive. The most obvious I can think of is the tritone. That is an interval 6 semitones apart. Also happens to split the octave exactly. This is used a lot ( perhaps too much ) when depicting the bad guys.

http://www.filmmusicnotes.com/celebrating-star-wars-films-part-2-of-6-uses-of-darth-vaders-theme/

best ed


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## Bradley Swaff (Mar 21, 2016)

ed buller said:


> Hi Bradley
> 
> welcome. You will find a lot of help here. I also recommend Mike. He has a 3 for 2 deal at the moment too.
> 
> ...




Thank you so much, this is what I'm looking for. I appreciate it.


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## ed buller (Mar 21, 2016)

You are more than welcome. Once you get the hang of those:

Next level shizz:






and what it sounds like:














enjoy


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## Leeward (Mar 21, 2016)

You can learn a great deal from imitating existing music, even pop songs. 

When I'm stuck for ideas, I take a song that I I like, make the chords a bit more fancy, and if I play it long enough, a semi-original melody usually comes through. Then you can make it more original through orchestration and phrasing. That's how I sometimes cheat!


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## gsilbers (Mar 21, 2016)

Bradley Swaff said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am a new member... I really appreciate this site, it's exactly what I needed. Before I ask my question, let me explain were I am at this point. I've had plenty of industry experience, working as an A&R assistant, and playing guitar since a very early age. I graduated from The Recording Workshop in, the summer of 2000. I've kept up to date with Ableton, Pro Tools, and all the last VST & virtual Kontakt instruments. I've bought most all the latest 'Hybrid orchestral' libraries, and learned how to use them via YouTube. I've been studying as many tutorials as possible, but I don't see any that truly explain techniques of how great ostinatos, arpeggios, and such work. I don't know how to read music very well, I'm learning, but I'm just not there yet.
> 
> ...




its understandable. trying to figure out the nuts and bolts of it. 
transcribing is one of the best lessons. not only transcirbing the music but also the production. 
use a track you like, import into your DAW and try to imitated as close as possible. 
try to get the same orchestral sound, ostinatos, notes, mix, etc. copy it.

as for reading material, the best so far for me was this book
http://www.jacksmalley.com/com-ab.htm which connects the music theory with film music. 
still, music theory in general helps when dealing with orchestal.


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