# Synth strings a la Vangelis



## osterdamus (Aug 26, 2021)

Hi folks,

Listening to Vangelis' Intermezzo... to me this sounds like a deliberate choice of using synth to mimic strings, but not necessarily to make them indistinguishable from the real thing (as opposed to, you know, replicants). Where could one go about finding a library with similar silky string sound? 

 

PS. I have Logic and Komplete Standard but I have admittedly not had the time to investigate all stock sounds.


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## Harry (Aug 26, 2021)

Is it his usual Yamaha CS-80?


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## osterdamus (Aug 27, 2021)

Harry said:


> Is it his usual Yamaha CS-80?


Not sure. This album was described as his post-synth work, but uh, I think that's debatable 😄 I find that the quality here is the upper register is nice and soft and I'm amazed how fat the lower register is, yet not muddy at all...


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## Saxer (Aug 27, 2021)

Sounds like sustained string samples with a slow envelope to me, layered with an analog pad.


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## shropshirelad (Aug 27, 2021)

Arturia offer a couple of Vangelis sound packs for Analog Lab.


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## José Herring (Aug 27, 2021)

Yes, he's got a whole sample setup now. Not sure if it's such a good thing but he's such a genius that he musicality comes through with even synthy sounding samples.


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## José Herring (Aug 27, 2021)




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## TomislavEP (Aug 27, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Listening to Vangelis' Intermezzo... to me this sounds like a deliberate choice of using synth to mimic strings, but not necessarily to make them indistinguishable from the real thing (as opposed to, you know, replicants).


IMO, although some might differ, Vangelis never aimed to create electronic orchestral music as a replica of the real thing, unlike many of the modern composers who are often driven by the idea of "fooling" even the most experienced ears that they're listening to a real orchestra instead of a virtual one. For him, technology was simply the way to satisfy his chosen method of working as a composer who is not classically trained. This is just one of many aspects that makes him one of my strongest influences.

BTW, I'm not 100% sure, but to me, most of the sounds that Vangelis uses on his latest albums sound like those from various keyboards and modules by Roland made in the '90s and perhaps early 2000's. Personally, I find it charming how he never really embraced the use of computers in his work, despite the sonic superiority of modern sample libraries. But in the end, it's all about music and the emotion it conveys; not about tools and methods and endless debates on "realism".


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## ed buller (Aug 27, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Listening to Vangelis' Intermezzo... to me this sounds like a deliberate choice of using synth to mimic strings, but not necessarily to make them indistinguishable from the real thing (as opposed to, you know, replicants). Where could one go about finding a library with similar silky string sound?
> 
> ...



as far as I know most of his sound palette is from 20 year old machines. Roland and EMU and the like. They sound like synth strings not real to me. And NOT CS80, far to thick and silky for that. I read somewhere he DID sample from tape a lot of his fav analogue sounds he'd used over the years and had them play back in samplers. 

best

e


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## SillyMidOn (Aug 27, 2021)

Esper Synth


Bladerunner infused leads, pads, and perc... including "THE" brass sound.




www.unearthedsampling.com


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## TomislavEP (Aug 27, 2021)

Speaking of libraries that feature sounds similar to those that Vangelis used in his works from the '90s and onward, I could recommend "Arctic Strings" and "Phoenix" by FrozenPlain and the libraries from CL-Projects. The latter developer was directly inspired by Vangelis, Jarre, and other electronic artists.


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## RobbertZH (Aug 27, 2021)

shropshirelad said:


> Arturia offer a couple of Vangelis sound packs for Analog Lab.


I have both Vangelis soundpacks and they have multiple (analog) string presets, but they sounds more like his older synth work for among others bladerunner, using analog string pads (including from Yamaha CS-80). Nice, but they do not sound like the strings in Nocturne.



Saxer said:


> Sounds like sustained string samples with a slow envelope to me, layered with an analog pad.


I also think they are a sustain articulation of real strings samples with a slow envelope
and as a result sound a bit between real strings and synth strings.

Just played a few patches of (version 1 of) Omnisphere, which comes in the direction of the sound in Nocturne:

- Adagio Transparent Strings Warm
- Adagio Transparent Strings Bright
- Hollywood String Section

To get closer, you need to change the envelop (attack/release) of these patches.

You can listen to the string sounds of Omnisphere here:


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## re-peat (Aug 27, 2021)

Not on-topic, but related to it: only a few weeks ago, I did a cover design for a new Vangelis compilation album (released on vinyl) for Sony Music The Netherlands.
The reference to the iconic “Spiral” sleeve from 1977 was part of the briefing.

Not my usual or favourite style, this type of design, but I do like painting in Photoshop which is how this image was made.


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## RogiervG (Aug 27, 2021)

i guess it's a modern-ish synth patch. (he has many modern(ish) devices, besides oldies)
it's a digital one for sure.


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## Pincel (Aug 27, 2021)

José Herring said:


>



I've watched that video so many times over the years, and it never gets old, always amazing to see a true genius at work. Vangelis is and has always been a one-of-a-kind type of artist, no one else can do what he does, period. I've always been very intrigued by that whole system he uses, seems awfully complicated... But he surely knows it by heart.

What you said really rings true, pure musicality can overcome synthy sounding samples, that's why some demos from 15-20 years ago still sound amazing even with the inferior technology of the time.


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## Pincel (Aug 27, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Listening to Vangelis' Intermezzo... to me this sounds like a deliberate choice of using synth to mimic strings, but not necessarily to make them indistinguishable from the real thing (as opposed to, you know, replicants). Where could one go about finding a library with similar silky string sound?
> 
> ...



Sounds to me like some Roland-type lush strings pad, layered with some analog synth sound, especially in the bass region. Wouldn't be surprised if came from some modern Roland synth + his analog stuff. You'll probably find something similar enough in Komplete, with some layering and tweaking.


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## gsilbers (Aug 27, 2021)

that video reminds me of this dvz strings video


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## RogiervG (Aug 27, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> that video reminds me of this dvz strings video



yes, in a way it does  but it's not however.


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## TomislavEP (Aug 27, 2021)

As I wrote earlier, though not positive, I'm quite certain that this custom-made system that Vangelis uses these days is driven by sound modules from Roland, possibly those from the JV series and maybe even Integra for some more modern sounds. I have a Roland Fantom X and Juno DS myself and some pianos, synths, and especially orchestral sounds are very similar to those used by Vangelis on "Rosetta" and "Nocturne" albums.


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## RogiervG (Aug 27, 2021)

TomislavEP said:


> As I wrote earlier, though not positive, I'm quite certain that this custom-made system that Vangelis uses these days is driven by sound modules from Roland, possibly those from the JV series and maybe even Integra for some more modern sounds. I have a Roland Fantom X and Juno DS myself and some pianos, synths, and especially orchestral sounds are very similar to those used by Vangelis on "Rosetta" and "Nocturne" albums.


it is a custom system, indeed. Custom made controllers and a transpose unit by yes audio: those white boxes above the keyboards are program selectors, the one on the right hand side (from his viewpoint) is the transpose unit, to quickly do program changes and routing for synths/romplers patches (and transpose). Everything is hooked up in omni mode (midi)
He uses pedals to fine control (sustain, expression, and occasionally even tone triggers like an organ)

He also uses an old version of RADAR (izcorp), version 5, the computers/and controller(black) you see in the left side from his viewpoint (but does not sequence though, it's just to record the performance).


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## germancomponist (Aug 27, 2021)

To me it sounds like the original "Solina Strings" ....? In the 80*s, I had one of this.


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## ScarletJerry (Aug 27, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Listening to Vangelis' Intermezzo... to me this sounds like a deliberate choice of using synth to mimic strings, but not necessarily to make them indistinguishable from the real thing (as opposed to, you know, replicants). Where could one go about finding a library with similar silky string sound?
> 
> ...



Hideaway Studios strings I and Strings II. Love to support small developers! Relatively inexpensive too. Believe they use Loot Audio for their store now And on sale for half off. Can get both collections for around 17 euros, or just buy strings I or II for half that to try.

https://hideawaystudio.net/2013/05/05/hideaway-studio-proudly-presents-the-string-collection/ (Strings)1

Highly recommend all of their stuff.

Scarlet Jerry


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## TomislavEP (Aug 28, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> those white boxes above the keyboards are program selectors


It's interesting that he uses the same symbols for different sounds devised way back in the Nemo Studios days. I'm guessing that these were drawn manually on blank keys rather than being printed out.


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## Wes Antczak (Aug 28, 2021)

One of the modules that he has been known to use is the Roland JV1080, which makes me think of Eric Persing (who did many of the patches at the time), which also makes me think of Omnisphere. 

Listening to Nocturne once more just now, the way the strings are played reminds me of the combi piano/string patches on my digital piano.


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## shenshen (Aug 29, 2021)

This is a small CS-80 Kontakt library with Blade Runner oriented patches but there are string patches which could get close to what you are looking for with some tweaking: https://pasttofuturereverbs.gumroad.com/l/rnrfL


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## osterdamus (Aug 29, 2021)

shenshen said:


> This is a small CS-80 Kontakt library with Blade Runner oriented patches but there are string patches which could get close to what you are looking for with some tweaking: https://pasttofuturereverbs.gumroad.com/l/rnrfL


Sounds great. Their page states "No external processing or mastering was added to the demos.", but the examples are really wet with reverb. Is this an effect or baked into the samples? (hoping for the former)


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## osterdamus (Aug 29, 2021)

ScarletJerry said:


> Hideaway Studios strings I and Strings II. Love to support small developers! Relatively inexpensive too. Believe they use Loot Audio for their store now And on sale for half off. Can get both collections for around 17 euros, or just buy strings I or II for half that to try.
> 
> https://hideawaystudio.net/2013/05/05/hideaway-studio-proudly-presents-the-string-collection/ (Strings)1
> 
> ...


Wow, listened to all the examples and they sound wonderful. Have you used any of these yourself? How was the experience?


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## ScarletJerry (Aug 30, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Wow, listened to all the examples and they sound wonderful. Have you used any of these yourself? How was the experience?


Yes, I own most of the Hideaway Studios libraries. At 50% off for the next day, they are low cost no brainer libraries if you like retro synth stuff and experimental sounds. A highlight from the Strings II collection is a patch called "Percy's Faith" which has a gorgeous synth sordino strings sound. You basically mix up to four different synth strings sounds to make your own combinations, or use the preset patches. If you like synth strings, this is for you.

If you like experimental sounds, check out The Blue Zone. Monopolyphonix has some great Moog patches. I just purchased Synergenesis for some pads and the Pentodian Resonator Choir for retro fake choir sounds that were produced by noise, not voices. Check out the Hideaway Studios Soundcloud page for more demos.

Scarlet Jerry


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## osterdamus (Aug 30, 2021)

TomislavEP said:


> IMO, although some might differ, Vangelis never aimed to create electronic orchestral music as a replica of the real thing, unlike many of the modern composers who are often driven by the idea of "fooling" even the most experienced ears that they're listening to a real orchestra instead of a virtual one. For him, technology was simply the way to satisfy his chosen method of working as a composer who is not classically trained. This is just one of many aspects that makes him one of my strongest influences.
> 
> BTW, I'm not 100% sure, but to me, most of the sounds that Vangelis uses on his latest albums sound like those from various keyboards and modules by Roland made in the '90s and perhaps early 2000's. Personally, I find it charming how he never really embraced the use of computers in his work, despite the sonic superiority of modern sample libraries. But in the end, it's all about music and the emotion it conveys; not about tools and methods and endless debates on "realism".


I definitely agree with this and I also find that one of his many qualities. I often go back to the Blade Runner soundtrack, simply because I find it truly diverse and very good example of storytelling - per track and also across the entire album. The textures continuously impress me, such great mix of modern tech synth and middle eastern references and sound.


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## osterdamus (Aug 30, 2021)

ScarletJerry said:


> Yes, I own most of the Hideaway Studios libraries. At 50% off for the next day, they are low cost no brainer libraries if you like retro synth stuff and experimental sounds. A highlight from the Strings II collection is a patch called "Percy's Faith" which has a gorgeous synth sordino strings sound. You basically mix up to four different synth strings sounds to make your own combinations, or use the preset patches. If you like synth strings, this is for you.
> 
> If you like experimental sounds, check out The Blue Zone. Monopolyphonix has some great Moog patches. I just purchased Synergenesis for some pads and the Pentodian Resonator Choir for retro fake choir sounds that were produced by noise, not voices. Check out the Hideaway Studios Soundcloud page for more demos.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Thank you pointing me their way. I'm definitely going to pick up the strings, will give the others a go as well. The last part of the Synergenesis demo was wild. Hot dang....


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## creativeforge (Aug 31, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Not on-topic, but related to it: only a few weeks ago, I did a cover design for a new Vangelis compilation album (released on vinyl) for Sony Music The Netherlands.
> The reference to the iconic “Spiral” sleeve from 1977 was part of the briefing.
> 
> Not my usual or favourite style, this type of design, but I do like painting in Photoshop which is how this image was made.


Did you delete it? The image does not show. Would love to see that cover...


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## osterdamus (Aug 31, 2021)

creativeforge said:


> Did you delete it? The image does not show. Would love to see that cover...


Weird, because the image shows as part of the quote of your reply in the notification email I received. But I don't see it here either in the thread 🤔


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## re-peat (Aug 31, 2021)

That’s strange, André. The image hasn’t been deleted and it’s still visible in the thread as well, even after refreshing and clearing the cache of my computer.

Anyway, if you can’t see it, then you can’t see it of course, so here is http://users.telenet.be/re-peat/SonyNL_VangelisUltimate.jpg (<b><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">the link to the image’s location</span></b>). I hope this helps.

_


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## creativeforge (Aug 31, 2021)

re-peat said:


> That’s strange, André. The image hasn’t been deleted and it’s still visible in the thread as well, even after refreshing and clearing the cache of my computer.
> 
> Anyway, if you can’t see it, then you can’t see it of course, so here is http://users.telenet.be/re-peat/SonyNL_VangelisUltimate.jpg (<b><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">the link to the image’s location</span></b>). I hope this helps.
> 
> _


Thanks for the image! Wow, it's gorgeous, I'm a fan of your work! 

Looking forward to it being available. Vangelis has been a long time inspiration for this uneducated musician (me).


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## osterdamus (Aug 31, 2021)

ScarletJerry said:


> Yes, I own most of the Hideaway Studios libraries. At 50% off for the next day, they are low cost no brainer libraries if you like retro synth stuff and experimental sounds. A highlight from the Strings II collection is a patch called "Percy's Faith" which has a gorgeous synth sordino strings sound. You basically mix up to four different synth strings sounds to make your own combinations, or use the preset patches. If you like synth strings, this is for you.
> 
> If you like experimental sounds, check out The Blue Zone. Monopolyphonix has some great Moog patches. I just purchased Synergenesis for some pads and the Pentodian Resonator Choir for retro fake choir sounds that were produced by noise, not voices. Check out the Hideaway Studios Soundcloud page for more demos.
> 
> Scarlet Jerry


Ok, so I bought it and I gotta say I'm impressed. Seriously, wow, so many inspiring patches. 

My left hand is constantly seeking my dynamics fader, though 😆 I like when the the tone can go from soft / neutral and then open up to be more aggressive as Vangelis himself does at times. My first thought was to add a low pass filter and using that to remove / add any top register buzz, but not sure if that's the right way to go. Have you had any success in achieving that in an efficient way? Inside Kontakt or in your DAW track?


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## ScarletJerry (Aug 31, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Ok, so I bought it and I gotta say I'm impressed. Seriously, wow, so many inspiring patches.
> 
> My left hand is constantly seeking my dynamics fader, though 😆 I like when the the tone can go from soft / neutral and then open up to be more aggressive as Vangelis himself does at times. My first thought was to add a low pass filter and using that to remove / add any top register buzz, but not sure if that's the right way to go. Have you had any success in achieving that in an efficient way? Inside Kontakt or in your DAW track?


I generally don't eq synth strings, but there is no reason you can't. One of my favorite real keyboards that I used to own was a Crumar Orchestrator, an I bought these strings to replicate some of that sound. You can also use them to blend with orchestral strings libraries.

One thing about Hideaway studios is that the samples can be long, or "generously long" as they say on the website. Also, if you email the developer, he is very responsive. When he has a sale, the libraries are generally in the $5 to $14 range, so I usually pick up one or two to add to my collection. I feel like I'm touching history because I'm playing the sounds of keyboards that are no longer in existence. Plus @EvilDragon developed the scripts and Stephen Howell of Hollow Sun designed the interfaces for the libraries, so I feel like I'm touching graphic design and Kontakt greatness!

Of course, Stephen Howell is sadly no longer with us, but there are several free synths on his website http://www.hollowsun.com and the paid synths are beautiful as well, dripping with nostalgia!

Scarlet Jerry


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## osterdamus (Aug 31, 2021)

ScarletJerry said:


> I generally don't eq synth strings, but there is no reason you can't. One of my favorite real keyboards that I used to own was a Crumar Orchestrator, an I bought these strings to replicate some of that sound. You can also use them to blend with orchestral strings libraries.
> 
> One thing about Hideaway studios is that the samples can be long, or "generously long" as they say on the website. Also, if you email the developer, he is very responsive. When he has a sale, the libraries are generally in the $5 to $14 range, so I usually pick up one or two to add to my collection. I feel like I'm touching history because I'm playing the sounds of keyboards that are no longer in existence. Plus @EvilDragon developed the scripts and Stephen Howell of Hollow Sun designed the interfaces for the libraries, so I feel like I'm touching graphic design and Kontakt greatness!
> 
> ...


After some more thought think I’m going the route of simply lowering the layer that has more bite through automaton. This way the entire string synth is not cut off, but only the more aggressive sound is lowered or removed, and brought back in as desired. I think that’ll give a better result. The grit of the ProphetVS in Strings II (I believe, I’m not at the comp right now), my goodness… 😄

I’ll shoot the developer an appreciation mail 👍🏻 

Didn’t know about Hollow Sun or Stephen Howell, seemed like a great and respected guy from what I can read on the website.

I own a few orchestral libraries (BBCSO Core, 8Dio Anthology), have you mixed these sounds with such libraries?


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## creativeforge (Aug 31, 2021)

re-peat said:


> That’s strange, André. The image hasn’t been deleted and it’s still visible in the thread as well, even after refreshing and clearing the cache of my computer.
> 
> Anyway, if you can’t see it, then you can’t see it of course, so here is http://users.telenet.be/re-peat/SonyNL_VangelisUltimate.jpg (<b><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">the link to the image’s location</span></b>). I hope this helps.
> 
> _


Yes, this is what I still see today in Chrome, even after clearing my cache:











*HOWEVER it does show well in Firefox. Mystery... *something I may need to look into. 

Cheers,

Andre


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