# Terrible experience with Banks



## caseyjames (May 19, 2011)

Hi,

Im setting up a new template and I am having tons of trouble with instrument banks.

In each instance I have 16 copies of the same bank (should take the same amount of time to load) The samples are compressed.

The whole thing is a nightmare.

First there's 4/5 min of verifying. Then it loads 1/16 of the total number of listed instruments as expected (thats what kontakt displays when loading identical banks), then the loading window disappears, and it stays in a frozed state for up to 30 min, finally all the banks appear, with none of the data loaded. When loading the data it seems to cascade through each loading data on the top and then loading 10kb on each following bank before the reset to 0. The only one that is really loading is the top one but the data is loading insanely slow, ~2mb second, it seems to be because of the cascading stuff.

Tried this on 4.11 and 422. 

I have tons of ram and I have the DFD buffer set to 6kb anyway.

Any ideas? These instrument banks have been such crap for so long. I read some people said 422 fixes the problem but no dice there either.


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## caseyjames (May 19, 2011)

In the 32 bit version, I'm finding that loading in to many of the same bank causes a memory error that crashes kontakt -- only when that memory limit is exceeded.

Don't multiple instances share the same memory? Why would it be running out of memory? Further, why wouldn't the 64bit version work well either?


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## caseyjames (May 19, 2011)

The library is on a RAID 0 with 2 15k SAS drives and only 20gigs of 150gig used, straight after a fresh format.

Has no one here loaded multiple copies of instrument banks with 80-100 programs?

The samples are compressed btw.


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## EvilDragon (May 20, 2011)

Might wanna read this topic: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... p?t=139027


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## chimuelo (May 20, 2011)

I use 8 x IB's but only fill 16 x slots of each.
Then I control their recall using an 8 x 16 matrix of PrgmChng messages.
I never use 100 % of anything software/O.S. driven unless it's a RISC processor and custom Operating system like a Linux based Receptor,....maybe.
I have 24GBs of RAM but never go past 11-12, same with HDD's, SSD's.
I also don't pay attention to numbers reported from CPUID, Task Manager or Kontakt.
I use my rig 6 nights a week and have the entire evenings worth of material loading while I fetch a beer.
It always works because I realize our audio apps are poorly coded, so I always leave at least a 50% headroom.
15% max on 2 of my 6 cores of an i7 980X, etc.
It's not like anyone is inspecting our apps for accuracy, so I play it safe.
If our targeting systems and software were coded as poorly as Logic, Cubase and Kontakt the civilian deaths in our numerous wars would be extremly high.

I had the choice of continuing using Kontakt or buy an Oasys or Motiff. With hardware when something advertised doesn't work you return it. 
I prefer Kontakts strings and horns so much more I took a chance with it and it paid off.
This is very comforting as you know when you buy any computer based audio software, it is often over touted, and cant do half of what its suppose to do. You cant even return it in most cases. 
So just keep the 50% overhead strategy when dealing with unregulated/uninspected software and you should be OK.

If you have 1066 ECC RAM, that stuff is like molasses. Dump it for 1333 CAS 8.


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## EvilDragon (May 20, 2011)

Man, chimuelo, you're wasting a lot of power if you leave that much headroom 


I bet 20% of headroom instead of 50% is gonna behave much the same - and you'll get more stuff going on.


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## chimuelo (May 20, 2011)

Probably so, but I have always used DSP cards since 1999, with hardware and native combined.
100% stability and no failures.

" We Fear Change. "
Garth....in Waynes World

Just bought Mind Control so I will be doing some testing on my day off.
But I just don't need much more than some French Horns.
Also noticing that while the SSD's are working great, they weren't needed
really. The 1500 Raptors streamed just fine at 90MBps.
Now I have 250+MBps and all I notice is the pre load advantages, and the fast access times allow me to operate at 1.7msec full duplex.

I also use Standalone so that also helps with stability.

Cheers.


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## caseyjames (May 20, 2011)

I looked through that thread., though it was a little hard making tails of it.

I'm not sure my problem is related.

I have one instance of kontakt loaded and nothing else. I have 24 gigs of ram in 64bit

I load the first instrument bank, it takes 30 seconds for the loading screen to scan through the 109 instruments and then another 15 for the bank to appear in kontakt. The ram usage when its all loaded reports as 283.13

Loading the second instance of the same bank, it stays on the 'Loading' screen, with nothing happening for 1 minute and then another minute before the interface shows up. This is more than double the time it took to load the first.

On the 3rd load, the loading screen, that still displays nothing, now takes 2 1/2 minutes and it takes another 2 1/2 minutes for the bank to appear, more than double again.

With 8 it takes half an hour and then HOURS for the banks to appear.

I've used banks in the past with ~17 instruments and its never worked well, but nothing like this.

Can anyone confirm that its an issue only with loading a large number of instruments?


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## chimuelo (May 20, 2011)

I come home at 3am and usually stay up to cook breakfast for the familia, so tonight I will be pretty buzzed from a celebration gig so I will be wide awake and able to load some big IB's and stare at the DAW for a couple of hours.
I usually have no patience for such wasted time but I am curious now to see how much loading I can cram into a single IB.
I did make some with 76 instruments before, but then learned that an 8 x 16 matrix was very simple for live work.
Check back


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## caseyjames (May 20, 2011)

May the heathen gods lend fire to your buzz. 

I really appreciate you checking it out. I have an 8x matrix setup as well, it was just designed for the larger banks, before I was aware of the problem.

If it is in fact a bug, and not just my system, I might try modding the matrixing multi script to use all 64 midi channels to widdle down the size from 100 to 25. Knowing kontakt, it will be waiting, grinning from ear to ear, eager to smite the attempt.


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## chimuelo (May 21, 2011)

Sorry it took longer than expected, I do grave on the weekends so now was the on;ly time.
Just got done trying to load up an instrument bank and at the 68th slot being filled I got a message titled " Progress " and then it said to rescue the currently loaded patch to speed up loading times, but then it froze so bad I couldn't even call up Task Manager or find the mouses pointer widget.
By the time I finsihed typing this I did recieve a crashlog path so I will be sending NI the information. They usually are fairly quick when you send them a logfile instead of a message.
Just another reason why I like so much overhead.
Audio apps are like Chinese Motherboard manufacturers. 6 months after they have had a couple of BIOS upgrades they are ready to use.
This is the very first time I have had any trouble with 4.2.2.
I think I will stick with the usual 8 x 16 since I need the paychecks.
I will be trying Mind COntrol tommorow but if I see any problems I will just wait for the NI guys to respond with a fix.


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## chimuelo (May 23, 2011)

New moderators on their forums and now an automated reply to my crashlog with a link to their knowledge base and a M$ article, which basically means NI is pointing their fingers at their partner. 

I have a feeling NI is cutting back on employees.
Well at least there's a 4.2.3 to use, but I ain't taking no chances with that.

Maybe Quality control is a thing of the past.
Stay with proven methods.
Let me know if you try it with 4.2.3.


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