# "Critical News" from N.I. about El Capitan compatability



## EastWest Lurker (Sep 29, 2015)

*CRITICAL compatibility warning with the upcoming Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan upgrade*

Before upgrading to the latest version of Mac OS X – version 10.11 El Capitan, please consider these potentially serious issues concerning your KOMPLETE, TRAKTOR, and MASCHINE products. Two major issues have been identified:

*1. NI plug-ins do not pass the AUDIO UNITS validation in Mac OS X 10.11 – Logic Pro affected*
In Mac OS X 10.11, Native Instruments AUDIO UNITS plug-ins will not pass the AU validation and will therefore not be available in Logic Pro. The root cause of this issue has been identified and a solution is currently being developed in close contact with Apple.

*2. Incompatibility with some older NI hardware*
There are compatibility issues between some older NI devices and Apple’s upcoming operating system. This issue triggers a 'kernel panic' – this serious problem will crash the connected computer immediately, resulting in loss of any unsaved work, or serious disruption of a performance.

The following hardware is affected:

TRAKTOR KONTROL S4 (MK1)
TRAKTOR KONTROL X1 (MK1)
TRAKTOR AUDIO 2 (MK1)
AUDIO 8 DJ
AUDIO 4 DJ
AUDIO 2 DJ
MASCHINE (MK1)
GUITAR RIG 3 (RIG KONTROL 3 hardware)
*There are beta drivers already available that fix this issue.* Updated drivers will be released as soon as they have been fully tested on OS X 10.11 – shortly after Apple releases OS X 10.11 to the public.

http://newsletter.native-instruments.com/go/11/1EQE68CI-1EOOPJS2-1EOOPJRU-18KGVFN.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Kernel+OS+10.11+c%3DKernel_OS_10.11+b%3DTraktor+t%3DSocialMedia (Download the beta drivers here)

To keep your system working normally with the affected products, we strongly recommend waiting before upgrading your computer to OS X 10.11 El Capitan until these issues have been fully solved by either Native Instruments or Apple.

http://newsletter.native-instruments.com/go/11/1EQE68CI-1EOOPJS2-1EPRQV2H-VEL1DVQ.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Kernel+OS+10.11+c%3DKernel_OS_10.11+b%3DTraktor+t%3DSocialMedia (Stay up to date on all future developments regarding Mac OS X 10.11 compatibility here)

Thank you for your attention,

The Native Instruments team


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## babylonwaves (Sep 29, 2015)

http://www.steinberg.net/en/newsandevents/news/newsdetail/article/important-information-regarding-os-x-1011-3359.html

"On September 30 Apple will release the new OS X version El Capitan. Our first tests show that different issues occur when running Steinberg products under OS X 10.11. We therefore cannot recommend our customers to update to El Capitan."


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## prodigalson (Sep 29, 2015)

yep, got the same notice from Arturia and Finale. 

As always, it would be wise to wait to update until all compatibility has been confirmed but it definitely seems that this might be a particularly tricky release.


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## Felipe Opazo (Sep 29, 2015)

Got this email from Nektar: 

*NEKTAR PANORAMA & OS X 10.11 COMPATIBILITY*


Apple are releasing OS X 10.11 (El Capitan) on September 30.

We have found some issues during the process of testing Panorama with the latest beta version of OS X 10.11 that we currently are working on resolving.

Panorama of course will be compatible with OS X 10.11 but an update to Panorama software will most likely be required. We therefore recommend that you initially postpone updating to OS X 10.11 on any computer that you need to work with Panorama.

We expect to have completed all testing and needed revisions to our software, within the next 2 weeks.

Nektar Impact products have already been tested and verified to work with OS X 10.11


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## chimuelo (Sep 29, 2015)

Why won't developers get their tired asses busy making an Operating System for audio.
Frankly I grow tired of lackuster upgrades and finger pointing to escape blame at the very people they anchored themselves to.

Not another dime from me to these bums.
Hardware lasts forever doesn't whine about 1s and 0s and doesn't charge us to fix problems they create.

They can bite me...


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## synthpunk (Sep 29, 2015)

I usually jump in but it looks like this is a update to wait on, too many things that will break if not and for once I am actually busy on projects that I cannot afford to loose.


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## EastWest Lurker (Sep 29, 2015)

chimuelo said:


> Why won't developers get their tired asses busy making an Operating System for audio.
> Frankly I grow tired of lackuster upgrades and finger pointing to escape blame at the very people they anchored themselves to.
> 
> Not another dime from me to these bums.
> ...




The Donald Trump of VI Control


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## KEnK (Sep 29, 2015)

*APPLE STRIKES AGAIN!!!!* 

par for the course


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## chimuelo (Sep 29, 2015)

Trump promised to buy EMagic and keep their promise from 19 years ago about using BeOS Bistro for a dedicated music OS with unlimited RAM for EXS...


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## jamwerks (Sep 29, 2015)

Man, with all these OS updates, who can ever keep up. Glad I went PC !!!


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## Bunford (Sep 29, 2015)

And people were mocking those upgrading to Windows 10.....


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## gpax (Sep 29, 2015)

I am a bit curious why there are three (maybe four) opinions being asserted here by individuals who have no stake in this OS update at all.

Compared to previous years, the developer announcements indicate a more specific - if not imminent - sense of identifying compatibility issues and respective releases, perhaps because of a more accessible beta period. Though it also sounds like a classic final build with changes introduced outside of the beta process. When both Steinberg and NI mention "first tests," I somehow doubt they mean they are just now getting the memo. 

I am wondering if a sticky about the wisdom of waiting to update - (or not update at all) - might be useful for newcomers and new composers to consider. It seems to me it would be more productive to acknowledge what is inevitable, and the options we all have, rather rant on Apple-as-culprit (or developers as lagging) with each OS update. There is a lot of collective wisdom in this forum on that front, which could benefit less informed users of both platforms, I would think. 

And, it's not like anyone here is actually going to change the culture of Apple concerning the plan to release an OS update every year. 

I do agree about (and hope for) more audio-savvy considerations in such releases. I am also eager to see the implementation of AU 3, when it finally arrives. If the current new OS release does represent a stable leap some are reporting, this may ultimately prove to be a good thing. 

G


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## NYC Composer (Sep 29, 2015)

Once again, my (Snow Leopard) Luddite status is confirmed as the sure bet, as I pump out work willy-nilly without a care in the world.

(Though I'm about to do a crazy thing and update to 10.85, which I'm sure will be some sort of horrorshow.)


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## chimuelo (Sep 29, 2015)

Glad I reverted to hardware more.
For example my recent HX3 Hammond B3
has 3 excellent DSP Reverbs.
The very best full featured Rotary Cabinet emulation and this is due to its own Operating System
The DSP chip is 5 times slower than my CPU.
Its so nice when audio is the priority when designing software as opposed to this clusterphuck that has developers wasting valuable time and resources.

Creating a crisis requires the creators to provide a rescue for a small fee.
Then higher costs rolled into upgrades on a regular basis.

They really do care about you though.
They promise with every upgrade to bring further unnecessary fixes they themselves caused last time you paid them.

Id love to have a job where I could decide how much I was going to make during a certain cycle.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 29, 2015)

Larry, 10.10.5 - the current OS until tomorrow - is absolutely Luddite-proof (it doesn't even replace your loom).

The only exception is that Pro Tools 10 doesn't draw drop-down menus properly (you have to mouse over them to see them). Other than that I have zero compatibility issues, and if I can I stay current with the updates because of the internet security.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 29, 2015)

Nick, I appreciate the thought. If only we had exactly the same collection of dusty plug ins, used the same sequencer and audio interface, etc etc. Obviously, this stuff requires some research, but is there a driver for my MOTU Ultralite?
Will Cubase 6 and its attending native plug ins run? Will SampleTank 2.x or SampleTron (I actually use SampleTron much more often, but every once in a while...) work on 10.10.5? How about my older (and relatively stable) version of Play? Etc.

I'm a total dumbass on the subject, but I suspect the Internet security ship has sailed.


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## EastWest Lurker (Sep 30, 2015)

If its Play 3, Larry, no but any version of Play 4, including 4.2.2 which seems to have been proved to be perhaps the most stable Play 4 version, is fine.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 30, 2015)

I'll have to check, but thanks for the info.


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## synthpunk (Sep 30, 2015)

40 pages of what is working and not working if you care to browse.
http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/os-x-el-capitan-working-not-working-apps.1890772/


Omnisphere...

We don’t have an official word on that yet, and are still testing as you might imagine.
Everything appears to be OK, but I would not recommend you upgrade to El Capitan yet.
Best Regards,
Les
Support Supervisor


From Universal Audio...

"El Capitan is not officially supported yet and I highly recommend not to update for the moment!_ Generally spoken (not just for UA gear) I would not recommend updating to a new OS just as it comes out - especially when you mainly use it for audio production. It's better to always wait until we (or the other manufactures) authorize the respective OS. Especially with El Capitan it seems to very tricky, other companies also report mostly bad experiences with this OS so far."_


**I have also read where if your using a Apollo with Firewire, it will not work on El Capitan.

some more info from Jay from another thread...


EastWest Lurker said:


> My contact at Apple just emailed me and said that he is confident that Apple's Core Audio guys will resolve any bugs on their side "in an expedient manner" so let's be optimistic.


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## gpax (Sep 30, 2015)

Is this actually a bit more epic than the usual wait-and-see compatibility checklist? Reading various sources today, there's a sense of scrambling by some developers, giving the impression of being surprised at crippled AU validation and hardware kernel panics, despite (or in spite of) the beta process.


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## chimuelo (Oct 1, 2015)

If I were the Sierra Club I would sue Apple for taking the great name of that Granite strucure named El Capitan and giving it such a terrible reputation.
But fear not little people.
Simply give the worlds most profitable corporation with 80 billion dollars in offshore tax shelters some more cash and they'll fix things for you.
Besides what are they going to do?
Go to the other slave owners to Windows 10.......


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## synthpunk (Oct 1, 2015)

I think what it shows more is that the Logic team is not that involved in beta testing new apple o.s. or how could they not catch these issues this late in to the public release today. That is quite worrisome.

Chim, were not here for Mac v PC, hardware v software please.



gpax said:


> Is this actually a bit more epic than the usual wait-and-see compatibility checklist? Reading various sources today, there's a sense of scrambling by some developers, giving the impression of being surprised at crippled AU validation and hardware kernel panics, despite (or in spite of) the beta process.


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 1, 2015)

Logic Pro X itself and all it plugins works fine under El Capitan. It is not their job to test 3rd party software.


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## Marius Masalar (Oct 1, 2015)

What has me confused is that all these third party companies are acting like Apple somehow sprung this change on them—but they didn't.

There was a very low-level adjustment made to the OS that broke third-party plugin scanning—sucks, but it happens when you make architectural changes—but that was apparent as of the very first beta of El Cap, which was released to developers _at the beginning of June!_


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 1, 2015)

1 developer? Probably their fault. 10 developers? Still maybe their fault. This many software and hardware developers? Common sense says it's mostly on Apple.


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## Marius Masalar (Oct 1, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> 1 developer? Probably their fault. 10 developers? Still maybe their fault. This many software and hardware developers? Common sense says it's mostly on Apple.


It seems that way, but that would mean the poor devs knew about the problem and Apple just opted out of helping them until the GM hit.

That may well be what happened but it seems peculiar. Maybe just a matter of priorities on Apple's part.

For what it's worth, El Cap is a fantastic OS outside of these audio issues. It's the part of the cycle where they eschew flashy new features in favour of core refinements and performance improvements.


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## EastWest Lurker (Oct 1, 2015)

I will look forward to it when things I use daily actually work with it


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## Marius Masalar (Oct 1, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> I will look forward to it when things I use daily actually work with it


You and me both  I just keep a beta testing partition on my machine for playing with stuff like this. Best of both worlds!


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## synthpunk (Oct 1, 2015)

Hi Marius, how do you like Notes ? Think it's better than Evernote ? 
Is LogicX-El Capitan moving quicker and slicker ? 
Have you noticed any audio engine changes ?


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## synthpunk (Oct 1, 2015)

There is supposed to be new (*edit or 2) Capitan Beta's already, but someone on another forum still reported issues with 3rd party stuff.



Marius Masalar said:


> You and me both  I just keep a beta testing partition on my machine for playing with stuff like this. Best of both worlds!


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## Marius Masalar (Oct 1, 2015)

aesthete said:


> Hi Marius, how do you like Notes ? Think it's better than Evernote ?
> Is LogicX-El Capitan moving quicker and slicker ?
> Have you noticed any audio engine changes ?


I've done very little intensive testing of the audio side of things, so I don't have much to report on that front. Logic is behaving well, perhaps fewer graphical oddities than Yosemite but I didn't notice any major differences in performance in my limited play time.

What I _have_ been testing extensively is the rest, including Notes. It's not better than Evernote in scope, but definitely in focus. Evernote does a _lot_ more—document searching, handwriting recognition, tagging, notebook sharing, cross-platform compatibility, Presentation Mode, reminders, detailed metadata, etc. etc.—but if what you're after is actually just a notepad, then Notes is much better.

Notes competes with things like SimpleNote, Google Keep, Paper, and people who use the old Stickies app. The link previews are amazing, the iOS integration is fantastic (easy to "clip" links or files from your iOS devices and sketch things out with a stylus), and syncing no longer uses the stupid IMAP-based system of the old Notes. Now it's all built on CloudKit and is much quicker and more reliable.

I'm also a fan of the window management...it needs some refining, but it's good. When I'm writing an article I can have my text editor on the left, Safari on the right, and be in a focused, clutter-free work zone that's very conducive to productivity. Yes, you can do the same by arranging windows manually or with third-party tools but now it's built into the OS.

Spotlight is also much smarter, which I appreciate, although why they haven't built Siri into OS X yet I don't understand. The new Spotlight is 75% of the way there.

Lots of small details that I appreciate too: San Francisco is a much better interface font than Helvetica Neue was, pinned tabs in Safari (which is also way faster), and the fact that shaking your mouse makes the cursor grow bigger (to make it easier to find) just makes me smile.

Anyway, it's a good update. Refinement over flashy stuff.


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## jonathanwright (Oct 1, 2015)

I've been playing with it today on my laptop and I think my favourite addition is the split screen feature.

I opened up Logic X and ran it side by side with Safari and it worked great. My laptop screen is small though, so I'm looking forward to trying it out on my iMac when it's safe to do so. Very useful for the multi tasking moments!


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## synthpunk (Oct 1, 2015)

Here is a screen shot









jonathanwright said:


> I've been playing with it today on my laptop and I think my favourite addition is the split screen feature.
> 
> I opened up Logic X and ran it side by side with Safari and it worked great. My laptop screen is small though, so I'm looking forward to trying it out on my iMac when it's safe to do so. Very useful for the multi tasking moments!


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## jonathanwright (Oct 1, 2015)

That's it! I think it has great potential.


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## Simon Ravn (Oct 2, 2015)

It's strange. Apple must have changed a lot - more than from Snow Leopard to Mavericks to Yosemite - as I recall they didn't break practially everything audio including AU validation, UAD drivers etc etc... I hope they did this for good reason (and that it will all be resolved soon).


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## Mike Connelly (Oct 5, 2015)

Apple did change more than usual. There are security changes that limit which folders where software can install files, and they finally updated AU to version 3. AU2 is supposed to be compatible but seems like a potential source of problems.


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## gsilbers (Oct 5, 2015)

yes the new audio units updates seems to be extensive since now you can have up to 256 channels instead of the forced 16 it used to be. There where other enhancements as well. so for audio , seems it will be a little while for everything to run smoothly.


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## Felipe Opazo (Oct 6, 2015)

I got scared because i own an old firewire interface (Mbox 2 Pro, connected FW400-FW800 + FW800 - Thunderbolt Adapter) that might not work with El Capitan. I'll update my girlfriend's iMac OS tonight and see if my interface works, then wait for Avid to release a firmware update (not sure they will). Honestly, i wasn't expecting to buy a new interface soon (although i'd love to own a UA Apollo Twin), wasn't part of my budget for this year :( .


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## Simon Ravn (Oct 6, 2015)

RME says their FW interfaces worked with the pre-release build so I doubt Apple completely removed FW compatibility...  I have an UFX myself so that certainly would s*ck.


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