# Roast my cinematic soundtrack in current version V678!



## CinematiX Recordings (Jul 1, 2022)

Hi all,

since it has been too long (8 years) that I "released" my last soundtrack and I've only been a long-time lurker in my favorite forum, I finally decided to officially appear here and share my current iron in the fire which I'm a little proud of. The composition is long done and I'm currently in the process of shaping the sound by mixing + mastering and getting the last 10% out of it. It's in version 678 now (from composing the first note to setting the last mastering dithering) and I've spent the last ~100 versions mainly for overall sound shaping on the master bus and maybe here and there little tweaks in the mix.
To my defense: I press the save-button *a lot*. 😄

*// Edit:
The soundtrack is finished now, thanks for your input! Check it out here:*


Previous WIP versions:




It is a very energetic and dense arrangement and challenging to mix + master, therefore I'd be very happy to hear your opinion about the sound and help me understand what makes it different from the “big” cinematic soundtracks.

Some questions I'd hope to get answers/opinions on:

- Does it have enough lows or is it already too boomy? Or both but in different parts of the track?
- Is it too bright? If yes, which elements?
- Is it too wet? If yes, which elements?
- Is it too compressed, do you hear unpleasant artifacts? If yes where? Or is the loudness just right?
- Are there elements/sounds that make it sound amateurish to you?

Everyone has different monitoring situations and ears, and therefore all opinions are valid and helpful to me. If the above questions seem too involved, just let me know what comes to your mind when listening to it, if anything. 

Thank you in advance for your input!
Tom


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## Marcin Maj (Jul 1, 2022)

Hi, I'm not a professional but just wanted to say that around 50 seconds in where choir comes in it just sounds... off. Maybe it's mixing, maybe samples used, or... maybe just me. But choir sounds weird, like it doesn't fit to the rest, and probably a little too loud. But it's just my opinion, let's wait for someone else opinion


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 1, 2022)

CinematiX Recordings said:


> Everyone has different monitoring situations and ears, and therefore *all opinions are valid* and helpful to me. If the above questions seem too involved, just let me know what comes to your mind when listening to it, if anything.


As a quasi-talented amateur who hasn't grossed any profit in music in over a decade at this point, my opinion is definitely NOT valid, so I disagree there. 

But that said, my opinion is that I like it, has a good epic feel to it...but I also agree w/ Marcin Maj about the chorus. As it is I don't know that it adds anything.


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## NuNativs (Jul 1, 2022)

No offense but I notice that the weakest composers post their music on here...


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## LearningToCompose:) (Jul 1, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> No offense but I notice that the weakest composers post their music on here...


And how is that comment useful to the OP?


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## Markrs (Jul 1, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> No offense but I notice that the weakest composers post their music on here...


That is a really unkind thing to say, so many talented computers post music on this forum


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 1, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> No offense but I notice that the weakest composers post their music on here...



Agree, my opinion is as valid as yours.


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## Loerpert (Jul 1, 2022)

@CinematiX Recordings First of all, great work!

Here's my *constructive *feedback (I'm looking at you @NuNativs )

I like the track overall. I guess I agree with the choir issue, and I think it has to do with the following. The composition is very FF FFF (loudly played), but the choir samples seem more P (so a lower dynamic). The choir samples are volume matched to be louder and that seems a bit off. So it doesn't have to do with your composition but more with the samples themselves. Maybe using a shoutier sample might help!

Regarding your own questions, they're mostly mixing questions. I'm not too good at that, but to my ears it sounds good! I think there's enough low in there and I don't hear any obvious compression artifacts / amateurish sounds. 

By the way I like all those strings runs in there. Keep it up!


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## CinematiX Recordings (Jul 2, 2022)

Wow, there is already quite some traffic going on, thanks a lot!



LatinXCombo said:


> As a quasi-talented amateur who hasn't grossed any profit in music in over a decade at this point, my opinion is definitely NOT valid, so I disagree there.
> 
> But that said, my opinion is that I like it, has a good epic feel to it...but I also agree w/ Marcin Maj about the chorus. As it is I don't know that it adds anything.


Probably most people listening to our music are not musicians or at least amateurs, so I think their feedback can be helpful as well. Although they might not be able to name the problematic elements, a “something is weird in this part” can lead me in the right direction. 
Thanks for the positive feedback and for the confirming the choir issue.



NuNativs said:


> No offense but I notice that the weakest composers post their music on here...


In case you are generally speaking: Where do strong composers post their music? 😀
In case the track made you post this:
I’d be happy to hear feedback especially from you, feel free to roast it.  Although I’m more searching for feedback on the overall sound/feel/mix/mastering and less on the composition. With the latter I’m happy but I think the sound can be improved. 



Marcin Maj said:


> Hi, I'm not a professional but just wanted to say that around 50 seconds in where choir comes in it just sounds... off. Maybe it's mixing, maybe samples used, or... maybe just me. But choir sounds weird, like it doesn't fit to the rest, and probably a little too loud. But it's just my opinion, let's wait for someone else opinion





Loerpert said:


> @CinematiX Recordings First of all, great work!
> 
> Here's my *constructive *feedback (I'm looking at you @NuNativs )
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for your feedback! 

I noticed while composing that this children’s choir does not fit 100% to the energy of the track (I guess they didn’t want to torture the poor kids with fff phrases ). But I liked to add choir phrases in this part as it adds this last piece of drama as the track constantly evolves to the peak. After a few hundred revisions I forgot about it. Thanks a lot for pointing out this issue and putting it back on the table! 
*Any suggestions for a choir library featuring fff phrases?*

Your feedback about not hearing compression/limiting artifacts is helpful. I thought I do hear artifacts, more on headphones than on my Yamaha HS8 but I’m also not sure if it’s just imagination. Any other opinions on this?


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## Loerpert (Jul 2, 2022)

CinematiX Recordings said:


> Wow, there is already quite some traffic going on, thanks a lot!
> 
> 
> Probably most people listening to our music are not musicians or at least amateurs, so I think their feedback can be helpful as well. Although they might not be able to name the problematic elements, a “something is weird in this part” can lead me in the right direction.
> ...


A few that might do the trick: Lacrimosa, Metropolis Ark 1 Choirs, Chorus. I'm not sure though, I only own Lacrimosa .


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## MartinH. (Jul 2, 2022)

CinematiX Recordings said:


> Hi all,
> 
> since it has been too long (8 years) that I "released" my last soundtrack and I've only been a long-time lurker in my favorite forum, I finally decided to officially appear here and share my current iron in the fire which I'm a little proud of. The composition is long done and I'm currently in the process of shaping the sound by mixing + mastering and getting the last 10% out of it. It's in version 678 now (from composing the first note to setting the last mastering dithering) and I've spent the last ~100 versions mainly for overall sound shaping on the master bus and maybe here and there little tweaks in the mix.
> To my defense: I press the save-button *a lot*. 😄
> ...



Overall, great job! Kudos for sticking with it for 678 versions! I usually quit before I'm even at v300.

The only comment I have is that the big drums are distracting me because they sound so roomy to me. It draws my attention away from the rest of the music. I would try making them all overall very slightly quiter, and for most of them (but not all - for variety) dial the mic balance more towards closer mics and less reverb. I listened on speakers, but not studio grade ones.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 2, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> No offense but I notice that the weakest composers post their music on here...


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## CinematiX Recordings (Jul 2, 2022)

Loerpert said:


> A few that might do the trick: Lacrimosa, Metropolis Ark 1 Choirs, Chorus. I'm not sure though, I only own Lacrimosa .


I’ll check them out, thanks!



MartinH. said:


> Overall, great job! Kudos for sticking with it for 678 versions! I usually quit before I'm even at v300.
> 
> The only comment I have is that the big drums are distracting me because they sound so roomy to me. It draws my attention away from the rest of the music. I would try making them all overall very slightly quiter, and for most of them (but not all - for variety) dial the mic balance more towards closer mics and less reverb. I listened on speakers, but not studio grade ones.


Believe me I’d love so much to release before v300 but my compulsive perfectionism always says no. 😅

Good point. For a much earlier version (around v450 😀) I got feedback from a friend that the drums were quite narrow in the stereo field and drowned a little at the loudest part of the track where the choir comes in, especially in comparison to some professional references. Then I tried to make them as stereo and big as possible to a certain degree. Maybe now is the time to tame them a little. I can give it a try.


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## NuNativs (Jul 2, 2022)

That's why I don't post music on here!


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## Roger Newton (Jul 2, 2022)

CinematiX Recordings said:


> In case you are generally speaking: Where do strong composers post their music? 😀
> In case the track made you post this:


You don't want to worry about all of that. Remember that people that listen to all this stuff are musicians. Non musicians probably don't frequent these sort of forums. Musicians are so wrapped up in there own stuff they're not really interested in anything else and if they are it's generally not what anyone else is particularly interested in.
Anyway, I'm in the middle of watching the Red Arrows and that's pretty interesting.


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## Gingerbread (Jul 2, 2022)

Can I ask, how did you accomplish the string runs that are running throughout?


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 2, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> That's why I don't post music on here!


You ought.


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## NuNativs (Jul 2, 2022)

LatinXCombo said:


> You ought.


I ought to apologize and shut me mouth. Had a bit too much of the tipsy last night, so my virtual tongue was not in sync with my sense.


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## Jett Hitt (Jul 2, 2022)

CinematiX Recordings said:


> Hi all,
> 
> since it has been too long (8 years) that I "released" my last soundtrack and I've only been a long-time lurker in my favorite forum, I finally decided to officially appear here and share my current iron in the fire which I'm a little proud of. The composition is long done and I'm currently in the process of shaping the sound by mixing + mastering and getting the last 10% out of it. It's in version 678 now (from composing the first note to setting the last mastering dithering) and I've spent the last ~100 versions mainly for overall sound shaping on the master bus and maybe here and there little tweaks in the mix.
> To my defense: I press the save-button *a lot*. 😄
> ...



Cut the volume of the percussion by about half so we can actually hear the rest of it.


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## CinematiX Recordings (Jul 2, 2022)

Gingerbread said:


> Can I ask, how did you accomplish the string runs that are running throughout?


Of course! These are Audibro’s Modern Scoring Strings with the Octave Runs articulation played in 100 bpm (originally recorded in 120 bpm).
Generally MSS together with Spitfire Chamber Strings were the main string libs used for the track and just a little bit of Berlin Strings adds here and there some depth and ambience.


Jett Hitt said:


> Cut the volume of the percussion by about half so we can actually hear the rest of it.


I really don’t want to 😀 At least as long as noone says it’s too boomy or annoying from a mixing perspective. But I get your point, I can try to tame these beasts a little.


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## LatinXCombo (Jul 3, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> I ought to apologize and shut me mouth. Had a bit too much of the tipsy last night, so my virtual tongue was not in sync with my sense.


Nobody’s perfect. 

Just don’t forget that the Internet is forever and you’ll do fine.


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## CinematiX Recordings (Jul 16, 2022)

Hi all,
After a rather unpleasant Corona break, I've tweaked the track now in version 685 based on the feedback I've received from you. There are two changes in comparison to V678:
- Drums are less reverberant and maybe tamed a little
- The odd sounding choir phrases have been turned down and complemented with/replaced by fff choir phrases sung by Lacrimosa choir

Please let me know what you think, i.e. roast the track.


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## CinematiX Recordings (Oct 16, 2022)

Hi there,

the soundtrack is finished now, you can check it out here:



The final version (including mastering) was 729. 😄

It took a while since my last post (got to eat, got to work) but the last weeks have been spent mainly on the sheet music and on the video animations. The final sound is something I can live with very well but still I'd be happy getting feedback/input that I might apply to future soundtracks. 

I definitely have received helpful feedback here, especially regarding the choir, so thanks again!


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## Xabierus Music (Oct 16, 2022)

Hi, first of all im amazed by your numbers of revisions, amazing hard work put there, and it reflects the track, its amazing!, i really liked the string runs and the choirs fit perfectly now, the composition was great, i really enjoyed how it started and suddenly i was driven to an epic journey full of adventures coming along, also the video effects and animation was really good, so let me be the first in say: GREAT WORK! and keep making more :D!


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## CinematiX Recordings (Oct 17, 2022)

Xabierus Music said:


> Hi, first of all im amazed by your numbers of revisions, amazing hard work put there, and it reflects the track, its amazing!, i really liked the string runs and the choirs fit perfectly now, the composition was great, i really enjoyed how it started and suddenly i was driven to an epic journey full of adventures coming along, also the video effects and animation was really good, so let me be the first in say: GREAT WORK! and keep making more :D!


Wow thank you for the kind words! 
Yes, Audiobro‘s MSS nailed string runs I find. 
The next one is already in the pipeline but it will take a little time since there is 3D modelling/rendering involved.


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## Rowy van Hest (Oct 17, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> No offense but I notice that the weakest composers post their music on here...


That's not entirely true. Vi-Control is more about virtual instruments, mixing and producing. No matter how good you are as a composer, producing music is a craft. I'm an experienced composer, but I absolutely suck at music producing. So once in a while I'm in desperate need of advise. Besides, I'm old and retired... I forgot what I was going to write 

By the way, I think it's rather useless to post your music at a forum filled with other composers. You write for the public, not for your colleagues. Unless you need the traffic, say for a YouTube video.

And then there are the young or inexperienced composers. They would be better off on a forum less focused on the technical stuff. Let me know if you find one with enough traffic.


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## Mr Frodo (Oct 17, 2022)

As an enthusiastic hobbyist, I would be delighted to create something as polished as that. I can't comment on the technical aspects of the production, but overall I thought it was great. And bravo on managing to stick with it through so many versions/revisions - I am sure I would have moved on to a different project long before I got to V729.


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## pawelmorytko (Oct 17, 2022)

NuNativs said:


> No offense but I notice that the weakest composers post their music on here...


Wow it's almost as if the professionals are happy and confident in their music so they don't need to share their compositions looking for feedback on forums, and the beginners do... What do people expect, Hans Zimmer to post his latest mockup for the new Nolan movie asking for feedback?


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## Bluemount Score (Oct 17, 2022)

pawelmorytko said:


> What do people expect, Hans Zimmer to post his latest mockup for the new Nolan movie asking for feedback?


People would still roast him.


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## Bluemount Score (Oct 17, 2022)

@CinematiX Recordings nice, lively and organic track - from my point of view and listening to it on cheap headphones at my office, you did great on the final version. Loving the string runs in particular.


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## CinematiX Recordings (Oct 19, 2022)

Rowy van Hest said:


> By the way, I think it's rather useless to post your music at a forum filled with other composers. You write for the public, not for your colleagues. Unless you need the traffic, say for a YouTube video.


Well for me it turned out to be valuable since I got constructive feedback which I could use to improve the track. I really didn’t hear the problematic choir anymore after hundreds of versions. 😀 But yes, I could have used even more feedback on the overall sound which was my intention for this thread in the first place (as I wrote, I didn’t seek advice regarding the composition so much). Probably most composers here try to achieve _the _sound by themselves unless they pay engineers to do the job, so here must be lots of helpful knowledge as I‘ve seen e.g. here:





Trailer cue attempt - feedback appreciated!


I took my first bout at an intense Hollywood-style trailer cue. Sound design stuff is fun! Let me know what you think.




vi-control.net




Such a feedback is incredibly helpful. But if you know any other better place for feedback on mixing _orchestral_ music please let me know.



Mr Frodo said:


> As an enthusiastic hobbyist, I would be delighted to create something as polished as that. I can't comment on the technical aspects of the production, but overall I thought it was great. And bravo on managing to stick with it through so many versions/revisions - I am sure I would have moved on to a different project long before I got to V729.


Thanks! But yeah I save a lot. I think I developed this behaviour when using older Cubase versions with weaker hardware and the Unreal Editor for creating Unreal/UT99 maps (nerdy fact 🤓 ), both loved to crash frequently. 😄



Bluemount Score said:


> @CinematiX Recordings nice, lively and organic track - from my point of view and listening to it on cheap headphones at my office, you did great on the final version. Loving the string runs in particular.


Happy to hear it also sounds okay on a cheaper and smaller system. I guess the deep and low thunder timpani (which I discovered for me listening to professional tracks and I love very much now) are gone then, though.


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