# Choice between Live 10 and Cubase Pro 10.5



## Trancer (Sep 23, 2020)

My first impression was that I wanted to buy Live 10 Suite, because Daw is a favorite for electronic music.

But while consulting the net, I asked myself the question and why not Cubase Pro 10.5

What I really like about Live is launching clips and combining them in sequence.

Cubase doesn't sound very easy to learn, but it seems more complete.

I would like to have your opinion on these two Daws.

I am looking above all for a Daw, stable, efficient, which has excellent management of vst, since my set will only be made up of virtual.

Whether it is suitable for electronic music of course.

Need a daw for a home studio, I do not plan to do concerts, but need an efficient and stable daw.

Thank you in advance for your answers.


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## Dr.Quest (Sep 23, 2020)

What system are you planning on running this on? OS and speed of Machine, etc.


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## Trancer (Sep 23, 2020)

Here are the two configurations that I have chosen.

Attachments for details.


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## Trancer (Sep 25, 2020)

No answers ?


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## Kony (Sep 25, 2020)

Have you any experience with using either Live or Cubase? I only ask because if you have, and you're comfortable with already using either one, then go with that. It really doesn't make too much difference which DAW you use IMO - they are all capable of doing pretty much the same basic things - whether it's FL, Live, Cubase, Logic, Cakewalk etc.


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## Trancer (Sep 25, 2020)

Thanks for your feedback.

I used Cubase vst 32 at the time, since most of the experience of Cubase.

I have used Live 8 and Protools, but used Protools more than Live.

Live confused me a bit, more used to a linear Daw.

But since then, I have evolved and I have a more open mind about how to compose and given my musical style, even if I will never do Live, Live 10 tempts me well.

Regarding Cubase Pro 10.5, it seems to be more difficult than another daw to learn.

For Cubase, there is also its direct competitor Studio One Pro 5.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each ?


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## Kony (Sep 25, 2020)

I can only speak from my own experience as a Cubase user - it's not too difficult once you get the hang of it and there are plenty of support videos on YouTube. But the same applies for most DAWs so I think it goes back to what you are already comfortable using (to save time) and to make things easier if you already have a head start. I can't see any big advantages of using one DAW over another.

Can you be more specific about what you found difficult about Cubase?


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## paulmatthew (Sep 25, 2020)

Here's my take on the DAW comparison from an electronic / trance music producer's perspective. They all have something to make them different from another. I started in Reason , then moved to Ableton Live. I can now use Logic Pro (proficiently) and can also work in Studio One and Cubase. Even though the workflow is different in Ableton , I found it easy to learn Studio One , Logic and Cubase coming from Ableton. I don't think it would be so easy the other way around. What Ableton excels at is electronic music and sound design. I think of Ableton as both a DAW and a creative workspace for more than just producing music - sound design , djing , live performance, sound editing and manipulation. Feel free to PM me with any other questions you might have.


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## Kony (Sep 25, 2020)

paulmatthew said:


> What Ableton excels at is electronic music and sound design


I've heard Daniel James say that as well - as he's used both - but I keep wondering why sound design isn't considered easy in Cubase as well. I haven't used Ableton though, but it seems as if the principles are the same - exporting to audio and manipulating/edit wav files etc. What am I missing?


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## paulmatthew (Sep 25, 2020)

Kony said:


> I've heard Daniel James say that as well - as he's used both - but I keep wondering why sound design isn't considered easy in Cubase as well. I haven't used Ableton though, but it seems as if the principles are the same - exporting to audio and manipulating/edit wav files etc. What am I missing?


It's one of those things where you just have to try it. Don't get me wrong , I love Logic , Studio One and Cubase but I find it easier to come up with and manipluate sounds faster in Ableton than any other DAW. Every workflow is different for others but for quick audio manipulation I will take Ableton any day. I would not suggest Ableton for doing orchestral or rock music but for anything electronic it's a breeze. This is why I think of Ableton as both a DAW and a creative tool for other things as well.


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## Trancer (Sep 25, 2020)

Thanks for your feedback.

Cubase is a more than complete Daw, see a bit of a gas plant, not in a bad sense, just that a lot of possibilities and everything seems a little collected too many windows open for example and for me a little too overloaded, maybe. be a work habit to acquire.

Live for example is a little more readable.

To come back to Cubase the interface is even if a big improvement, seems to me less readable, once again too overloaded, which in a way removes the ergonomics.

Thanks to you also paulmatthew, I have quite a few questions.

Cubase is used a lot in electronic music, Live a reference of course.

What I really like about Live is the chain and possible sequence, which Cubase lacks, but the latter not really intended for that.

If this function were added to Cubase, it would be magic though.

Studio One Pro 5 on the other hand is a little more open on this side and with the Atom SQ controller, seems more comfortable than Cubase to bring a Live touch, moreover for Studio One offers a complete environment with for example Faderport 16, so Studio One Pro 5 remains very interesting compared to Cubase, don't you think?

On the other hand, as you said a big positive point for Live, it is the creativity and ergonomics that inspire composing, which seems more abstract to me on Cubase and paradoxically better on Studio One Pro 5.

Quite a few DJs and producers use Cubase, but aren't they more used for mixing than for production?


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## Kony (Sep 25, 2020)

Thanks @paulmatthew - that makes sense


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## paulmatthew (Sep 25, 2020)

Kony said:


> Thanks @paulmatthew - that makes sense


I forgot to mention that loop manipulation is by far the easiest in Ableton by use of the warp markers, slicing to midi function. Logic's flex makes pull my hair out


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## InLight-Tone (Sep 25, 2020)

For what it's worth, if you want to stick with one DAW to consolidate your attention, Studio One is a good compromise between the 2, good for both Electronic, especially with Atom SQ (like Push) and Orchestral workflows, though if you want to run Mega-Rigs of multiple computers and 1000's upon 1000's of tracks stay with Cubase. (Not recommended)!


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## Trancer (Sep 25, 2020)

Thank you for your answers.

Considering the complete universe for Studio One Pro 5, by that I mean Atom SQ, Faderport 12, it is a complete environment, which Cubase lacks.

In addition, the ergonomics seem much better to me and according to some user reviews it seems a reality.

I do not denigrate at all Cubase I specify, just that the Presonus system is complete and therefore compatible and I suppose stable since everything is from the same company.

On the other hand if I am not mistaken, that not in favor of Studio One Pro 5, no possibility of two screens, there is a solution but more expensive to take a 34 inch curved screen.

Cubase can it be used in dual screen.

For Live I think it's possible though.

Now Live and Push 2 is a formidable combination without a doubt.

What do you mean by not recommended?


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## Damarus (Sep 25, 2020)

Live workflow is great. Really easy to get running with an idea and do some tricky things that might take longer in other DAWS. But MIDI editing drives me nuts, especially when it comes to scoring to picture, or orchestral orchestration.

Ableton has evolved a bit since this video, but unfortunately everything Daniel James mentions is still not available in Ableton


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## Trancer (Sep 25, 2020)

Thanks for your return.

Yes it is true that Ableton lags a bit for the more advanced midi edition.

But on the other hand, does Ableton aim to be a more generalist and no longer specific daw dedicated to the direct live composition and less based on the more advanced edition in the midi for example?


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## unclecheeks (Sep 27, 2020)

paulmatthew said:


> It's one of those things where you just have to try it. Don't get me wrong , I love Logic , Studio One and Cubase but I find it easier to come up with and manipluate sounds faster in Ableton than any other DAW. Every workflow is different for others but for quick audio manipulation I will take Ableton any day. I would not suggest Ableton for doing orchestral or rock music but for anything electronic it's a breeze. This is why I think of Ableton as both a DAW and a creative tool for other things as well.



I come from a similar electronic music background, but I think Ableton is quite capable at doing other types of music as well. In Arrangement view, it's just like any other linear DAW. Sure, there are some workflow differences, just like every DAW handles things differently, so you'd have to try to see if you like. Of course, Ableton also has the Clip view which is more geared for performance and experimentation - this is a completely unique take on creating (and performing) music. And you can always choose which mode you primarily work in, or go back and forth. It's very flexible in this regard.

I'll also say that I've considered switching DAWs in the past as a "refresher" but one thing that keeps me hooked into Ableton is Max For Live. I know how to program in Max, so I can pretty much create any additional functionality that I need, or extend existing Live features to suit me. 

Best way is to demo each and see what works for you.


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## THW (Sep 27, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Thank you for your answers.
> 
> Considering the complete universe for Studio One Pro 5, by that I mean Atom SQ, Faderport 12, it is a complete environment, which Cubase lacks.
> 
> ...



I use studio one on 2 screens, left I had my arrangement and mix windows, right I have my edit window, but I tend to move things around. I’ve even used a tablet in addition to mix.

to go with this, I also have the atom, and while I don’t often use the drum pads, Im constantly using the transport controls.


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## Trancer (Sep 27, 2020)

Thanks for your feedback.

Live / Cubase see Studio One Pro 5 which apparently has better ergonomics than Cubase and moreover has a complete system as well A dedicated controller as well as a Faderport 12.

I think my choice after reflection will be between Live 10, because I really like the clip system, but it has a system that is not bad at all on Studio One Pro is the Atom SQ, although well aware that not really this what Live offers.

The Studio One eco system does not leave me indifferent.

What Cubase as well as Studio One really lacks, although the latter offers some sort of alternative, is Live's clip / sequence system.

I was thinking of taking two 27 inch screens, but I thought, a 34 inch curved screen might be a solution.

What do you think ?


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## unclecheeks (Sep 27, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Thanks for your feedback.
> 
> Live / Cubase see Studio One Pro 5 which apparently has better ergonomics than Cubase and moreover has a complete system as well A dedicated controller as well as a Faderport 12.
> 
> ...



two 27 inch screens side by side would make my neck hurt! i'd go with 34 if it were me.

if you got the Live route, you could also consider the Touchable control surface app - https://zerodebug.com/#/touchable. It's pretty nice being able to edit MIDI (only in clip view though), and adjust 
"focused" device parameters on a touch screen.


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## Trancer (Sep 27, 2020)

Thank you for the feedback.

It is true that the 34-inch option seems a very good alternative to the two 27-inch screens.

Thanks for the link, but not very convinced, plus the graphics / rendering, not great I think.

This is just my opinion, it does not detract from the interest of the product, it will certainly suit a lot of people.


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## roman.i (Oct 3, 2020)

@Trancer
I'll answer both your questions here (Cubase vs Ableton, Cubase vs Studio One).
The answer is highly opinionated.
Cubase is historically made for music composers and can be used for mixing as well.
Although, the professional mixing engineer's standard is ProTools.
Ableton has a very advanced and easy to use electronic sound design section, but everything else is very basic. Ableton assumes the electronic musician's main objective is sound design, not music sheets. Ableton also lacks a proper mixing screen.
Right now, Studio One is a poor man's ProTools.

I think the choice should be made based on must-have features in Ableton or Cubase.
If your electronic music is sound design-centric and it doesn't have complex notation, go with Ableton. Otherwise, Cubase is better.


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## jcrosby (Oct 3, 2020)

Trancer said:


> I think my choice after reflection will be between Live 10, because I really like the clip system, but it has a system that is not bad at all on Studio One Pro is the Atom SQ, although well aware that not really this what Live offers.


Live is fast to work in. That said Live is missing a lot of basic stuff that should have been added over a decade ago. (And has been requested by users for at least that long.)

For example you can't select multiple clips and perform fades to all clips with one action. You have to fade each clip, 1 clip at a time. You have one tool, a pencil. No scissors/blade, eraser, line/shape tool, etc etc like you'll find in other DAWs. While this makes live fast it also makes it quite limited.

you can't modify the keyboard shortcuts, and lots of critical features have NO shortcuts at all.

For editing velocity you have very few options, drag velocity sliders by hand, freehand draw, or use a keyboard modifier to draw a straight line. You don't have event editors like you do in most DAWs which let you edit multiple events with a single gesture. You can't do things like nudge velocity up using keyboard shortcuts..

You can only see one audio clip in the clip view in the bottom drawer at one time, if you select more than one some of the clip property options go away, and the clip view is unusable gray space not used for anything. (Even though it should be)....

Live has an incredibly slow development time table so I wouldn't assume any feature currently missing will show up anytime soon.. See the comment above about features being requested for a good 12 years now... Like the most basic standard DAW stuff... Still not available in Live.

It ultimately comes down to what you'll need, and if you haven't played with clip launcher you should. You'll either love it or you won't, if you don't you've spent quite a hefty chunk of change for a feature you liked in theory only.... While I do like the clip launcher, many here don't even use it. And since version 9 Ableton have made the clip launcher more convoluted instead of more streamlined by adding quirky, confusing things like two record buttons, one for the clip launcher another for the linear editor. 

The short version - while there are things I like about it a lot, there are things I absolutely can't stand.... And the Live beta doesn't show me any hope of things improving in Live anytime soon. I'd demo Live pretty seriously before assuming it's the right DAW. You might love it, but you also might find it short on features you just assumed were part of the feature set.


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## barteredbride (Oct 4, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> And the Live beta doesn't show me any hope of things improving in Live anytime soon.



The beta for Live 11?

Intrigued.


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## jcrosby (Oct 4, 2020)

barteredbride said:


> The beta for Live 11?
> 
> Intrigued.


No the beta for Live 10 is ongoing. Considering Live 10 is still version 10.1 2 years later I wouldn't expect Live 11 any time soon. Easily a few more years.


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## barteredbride (Oct 4, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> No the beta for Live 10 is ongoing. Considering Live 10 is still version 10.1 2 years later I wouldn't expect Live 11 any time soon. Easily a few more years.


Ok cool...I thought Live 11 might have been in the pipe line there for a second! 

I'm happy with live 10 anyhooos.


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## jcrosby (Oct 4, 2020)

barteredbride said:


> Ok cool...I thought Live 11 might have been in the pipe line there for a second!
> 
> I'm happy with live 10 anyhooos.


BTW I believe the beta's still public if you're interested.. Even if you don't install any of the betas it'll give you a lot of insight about Ableton development. You can make feature requests, but to be blunt Ableton have more or less stopped responding to any feature requests for well over a year now. That said you can vote on existing requests which is the only way things have any chance of getting implemented.









Ableton Beta Program | Ableton


Join the Ableton Beta Program and help us improve Live.




www.ableton.com


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## LudovicVDP (Oct 5, 2020)

Are you gonna use your DAW live?

I've worked with Ableton for years when I was into electronic music. That's obviously where it shines.
If you look at all the DJ's playing live, it's all Ableton.

When I was keyboardist for a band, I also used Live and every scene would trigger the cc changes for my external synths, it would change the fx, switch the vst, whatever... So I could just leave my hands on my keyboards and everything would be triggered with a foot pedals.
Sequences could be triggered. Etc...
Perfect.

I even had a gig where I controlled Live with a foot controller, mixing a set and played percussion with my hands along with the music. 

Sound design was also easier for me in Live. I'm not yet as comfortable with it in Cubase. Most probably my fault though, not Cubase's fault. 

My issue with Live (again: MY issue, not Live's fault) was to get out of the loop trap. I could easily get stuck with a good sequence and never develop.

Once I stopped playing live and stopped composing electro, I needed/wanted to re-think my process. Switching to Cubase allowed me to start fresh and change my (sometimes bad) habits. I would say that Cubase makes me compose whereas Ableton made me play.

With that in mind, I think at that time, there were also missing features in Live compared to Cubase. On top of my mind (If I remember correctly), being able to open several midi track and see all the combined notes together for instance. But Live is catching up for sure (I'm not following anymore)

Anyway: my example doesn't really help. In the end, a good Live user and a good Cubase user (I'm neither) could achieve the same result. I guess the question is more like "Where do you feel more comfortable".

Those were my 2 cents.


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## RyanRhea (Oct 5, 2020)

I'm new here, so hello everyone!

I currently use Live 10 after much back and forth between considering it and Logic. I'll still likely get Logic at some point simply because I know it's amazing and it's so affordable. But since I already had a copy of Live 8 Suite from years ago, the upgrade (while still a hundred dollars more than full price of Logic!) to 10 Suite wasn't too bad. So I get it a couple of months ago and start getting back into recording again, with no idea of what exactly I wanted to do. Coming from 30 years of guitar playing I knew I didn't want to keep doing rock and fusion stuff exclusively any more. I love EDM, but am far from a die hard fan or a regular listener. Then I discover the Push 2 controller, looping, Session mode (which I never used in the past) and down the rabbit hole I went.  That controller plus Ableton (with nearly _anything _loaded in) is one of the most incredible and expressive instruments I've ever played. The isometric note patterns of the pads have provided an amazingly refreshing way to create music for me. I have an 88 key, 25 key and the cheap but incredibly useful Korg nanokey and fader units at my desk, but I use the Push 2 by far more than anything else for creating music.

The other main reason I like Ableton is its simplicity, which has been listed as a negative by some in this thread. So your mileage may vary on that, but for me the fact that all its hotkeys can fit on a single sheet of paper made it less cluttered and faster to learn. Of course, there are some frustrating feature omissions that I think would be nice to have from time to time (i.e. simple things like Duplicate track "empty"), but mostly I'm just arming some tracks in Arrangement mode, hitting record, undo if necessary, record again, etc. I'm using VIs pretty much exclusively and don't really have any issues by keeping my templates small and using only what the piece needs, and nothing more. I don't even understand some of the features mentioned about Cubase and Logic that are missing from Ableton and I therefore don't miss them or otherwise care. Ignorance is bliss! 

Shortly after getting the Push 2 I came across something that triggered the notion of getting into orchestral composition. And that, ultimately, led me to a lot of research _and_ this forum. I have BBC Discover, Albion ONE, ComposerCloud GOLD sub and most of the SA Originals and Labs. I did a practice score of the Joker trailer with Albion ONE and some foley, and found Ableton to be just fine for editing to picture (I picked up/developed some tricks along the way). I then orchestrrated a standalone cue from a piano sketch I came up with on the Push 2 (with no film or video in mind) that might work as a main theme, or for end credits, etc. I used the free BBC Discover orchestra exclusively with exception of bringing in some Albion nasty brass and low woodwinds to help shore it up for my purposes. I think I like the BBC Discover instrument more than anything else I have installed right now for orchestral music. 

When I write I prefer to play everything live, often with both hands. Using the Push 2 and Tec breath controller (and triggering keyswitches as needed with the nanokey) I can get away with doing a lot on the first pass. Sometimes I'll massage the midi that's there for bass, midrange instruments, etc. Many times I'll re-record those parts as is or change them up, and/or double them. Always sounds better than exact copies. I also try (as often as possible) to punch in additional midi content into the same existing tracks when, say, a higher part is needed on top of a lower part in order to keep the track count low. I rarely quantize anything. I play to a click and just try to mix along the way and think about my voicings and orchestration. Ableton has been easy for me to use to do all this stuff despite how new I am at it all (my first ever standalone piece is nearly 4 minutes long and cycles through three different tempos). I feel like the interface in Ableton is mostly out of my way and allows me to create more freely. In other DAWs like Protools everything feels stiffer, more technical and less creative to me. Full disclosure... I've used them all at one point or another, just never got that deep into any of them. I was a video animator and editor in a past life... so timeline based software, in general, is familiar to me and relatively easy for me to pick up. 

The hardest part is writing good music! lol


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## Trancer (Oct 5, 2020)

Thank you for all your feedback and advice.

Indeed that of the design and not really of rating.

You said that Studio One Pro 5 poor man, Protools is a studio standard, but objectively it offers what more?

Compared to Cubase for example.

Thank you for this detailed and very interesting feedback on the lack of features in Live 10.

I had Live 9 and the music video release has got me much more. On the other hand, in view of your answer, Live is still missing a lot of things, which could cause a problem in a fairly short time in a project.

Cubase, see Studio One Pro 5 brings together more possibilities and more open, but also here I am talking about Cubase complex to take in hand despite everything and to last far from being without flaws and also a lot of lack requested and not added.

Even if younger, I may be wrong, but Studio One Pro 5 seems to have good potential and constantly improving, it is criticized for its lack of software offers, but, when already vst and effects plugins not too serious in itself.

Moreover Studio One Pro 5 seems more accessible, ergonomic, than for example Cubase.

I will never do a concert, home studio use, only vst.

I suspect, composition based on loops, it can partition a little and thus prevent a more open composition.

Thank you for this very explicit Live and Push 2 safe review.

I like Live well for a lot of things, but, at some point I think I would like to switch to a daw like Cubase / Studio One for mixing and automations for example.

A hybrid daw would be a great solution, but it doesn't exist yet.


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## dcomdico (Oct 5, 2020)

If you are performing, Live; if you are composing, Cubase. If you don't have a lot of hardware, Live. If you do, Cubase. But you should run the demo for each and make up your own mind. If you have experience with DAWs, Cubase is surprisingly easy to learn.


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## Trancer (Oct 5, 2020)

Thank you for your reply.

I will only have vst, the only hardware may be a Vermona drm mk3 with a sequencer, if not nothing but vst.

So for you with Vst configuration and no live concert, just studio composition, Live rather than Cubase?

Experience with FL Studio 12, not too hooked with the concept, concerning Cubase my use date of Cubase vst 32


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## barteredbride (Oct 5, 2020)

Don´t forget about Expression Maps.

Some people use them, so don´t, it´s a personal preference. BUT! It´s not a feature that is in Live, only in Cubase (and Logic).

If you´re planning to do any orchestral work, you might want to think if this is a feature you´d like to try.

But if you work on a ´1 articualtion per track´ basis, then you don´t need to think about this!


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## Trancer (Oct 5, 2020)

At the moment, not really intending to do orchestral.

But I am not saying that I may not do so in the near future.

The mix of orchestral and electronic music can give a wonderful combination.


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## greggybud (Oct 6, 2020)

unclecheeks said:


> two 27 inch screens side by side would make my neck hurt! i'd go with 34 if it were me.



Not for me.

These are 2 34 inch ultra-wides, the 3rd one to the right is 28-inch ultra-wide, and another to the left is turned off. I have absolutely no issues slightly moving my eye pupils to view the 34-inchs, and yes I do turn my neck about 30 degrees to view the 28 inch. The 2 34-inch displays are not only in a slight V-shape, but more importantly mounted knee-height and tilted upwards. Unfortunately the photo attahced doesn't show very much vertical tilt. This allows less reflections for the studio monitors, and provides a nice monitoring triangle.

My typical or normal set-up takes advantage of all 3 mix consoles, and plenty use of Work-Spaces, everything controlled by Metagrid. For example if I think I'm going to be doing some work in the Key Editor and I don't want to position my body directly toward the 28 inch...or turn my neck 30 degrees, I can press 1 button on Metagrid, and then the Key Editor is in front of me.

If you use Cubase, considering all its features, I would never go back to a single or even a large screen. For myself, there would be way too much opening/closing of windows, VST's, etc.


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## Trancer (Oct 6, 2020)

Thank you for your response and advice.

Your screens are not curved it seems to me?

Your 34 inch screens are lg, can you give me the 34 inch and 28 inch model.

Thank you in advance.

Are you satisfied with Cubase?

Can this kind of setup be used with Studio One Pro I guess?


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## greggybud (Oct 6, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Thank you for your response and advice.
> 
> Your screens are not curved it seems to me?
> 
> ...


No. Curved monitors were more expensive when I purchased these LG monitors. I'm sure the models are out of production at this point. They are not 4k, not hiDPI, but work just fine for my needs.

Am I satisfied with Cubase? I beta test so I feel my perspective is somewhat different than others. I'll never be satisfied however for my objectives, yes I think it fits best for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by "this kind of set-up." Does Studio 1 have 3 mix consoles that can either be linked or unlinked?


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## Trancer (Oct 6, 2020)

Thank you for your reply.

I misspoke.

I wanted to ask, I guess it's possible to use multiple displays in Studio One?

What matters when buying is certainly the definition of the screen and the latency, is 5 ms too high?


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## Andy_P (Oct 7, 2020)

I think Ableton is stalling with bug updates until the next major update be it 10.2 or 10.5 is ready which must have some major features as its been some time since 10.1 released. But yeah in general it's been the slowest progressing DAW of all. There are legit FRs from 10-12 years ago that are ignored and have been in other DAWs. So I don't think the next update will be going to a different direction either. It is what it is and it is fine. If you are in to sound mangling, FX Racks, Instrument Racks, Max4Live, Sampling, Chopping, Looping etc than Live is a great choice but if you are more of a traditional composer, producer who just picks some VSTis, hardware synths and compose and maybe add some live instruments and vocals, Cubase could suit better. You can do most of the Ableton Live stuff in Cubase too but Live kind of channels you to it. Those features are more upfront in your face.


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## Al Maurice (Oct 7, 2020)

Trancer said:


> I wanted to ask, I guess it's possible to use multiple displays in Studio One?



You kind of answered your own question, yes it's very easy -- each console and view is detachable, they can be dragged and dropped onto any screen. So in that way SO is super flexible.


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## nbyte (Oct 7, 2020)

I would consider to look at two more DAWs.
If you are more sound-design centric than take look at Bitwig Studio. It has the same workflow as Ableton Live but more streamlined and with more possibilities for sound design.
Another one is Digital Performer from Motu. It has all tools a DAW like Cubase / Studio One has plus a clip launcher like in Live/Bitwig. And Digital Performer is great for film scoring....


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## kitekrazy (Oct 7, 2020)

Live Suite is a waste of money. It will add 60gb of stuff you wont use. Nothing is really ever updated in the Suite. I guess if you want to spend time learning Max4Live then go for it.


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## victoria (Oct 7, 2020)

Many moons ago I started in Live but moved to Cubase later. It's all about features and workflow, but in reality you can make the same music in both. Cubase Pro is definitely the more advanced with a huge set of features not found in Ableton - on the other hand, Cubase is definitely also a lot harder to learn and Ableton is more streamlined with a lot less surprises (and bugs...).

I would not recommend Cubase as the first DAW unless you have a lot of patience. Also, Cubase 11 is probably right around the corner so maybe wait for that.


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## nglez (Oct 8, 2020)

kitekrazy said:


> Live Suite is a waste of money. It will add 60gb of stuff you wont use. Nothing is really ever updated in the Suite. I guess if you want to spend time learning Max4Live then go for it.


Live Suite is definitely not a waste of money. The additional effects and synths are great and you also get Max for Live. For e.g the ability to modulate parameters in Live with Max for Live is amazing. I would say if you want to get ideas down quickly, uninterrupted workflow and be more creative&adventurous Live is a great choice. If you are mostly focused on heavy midi editing, scoring to picture then Cubase will be a much better choice. I use both and for me Live is more like a "creative playground" that allows me to integrate my modular seamlessly and do sound design. Once I have all my sounds and I am ready to score and deliver to picture I use cubase. If I work on solo material I stay in Live. In any case I would use the trial version of both and see what works best for you.


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## pixel (Oct 8, 2020)

I work in Cubase and Live. 
Live is good for sound design because it has unlimited number of effects per channel and super easy way to layer everything. You can even have several synths and drum machines in one channel if you would like to do it. Layering/splitting effects is easy no less. 

But... 

Piano roll is a nightmare. It requires constant changing size between piano roll and arrangement view. It allows for 2 screen split but no option to use separate full window for piano roll. It's super annoying except if you have grand monitor with 4/8k resolution. Also piano roll and midi editing in Live is very limited. It feels like limited demo version 
Cubase in that matter is million times better. Separate window (or docked, you can choose). Lots of tools for music editing.
But Cubase followed old Mixer-alike scheme with limited inserts. 

Imo it's really taught decision to make. I couldn't work with only one of them and I'm switching all the time. Ableton for complex sound design, Cubase for complex midi/arrangements.


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## Trancer (Oct 8, 2020)

Thank you for your answers.

Apparently the bug problem is unfortunately a bit for everyone.

Both Live and Cubase, maybe less Studio One.

What interests me is the clip system, rack system too, but there is a drum editor as well of course Cubase and Studio One.

Regarding the effects, even if very interesting, it is possible to find some with other plug-ins and sometimes free.

Live certainly remains an excellent DAW, but, by dint of watching videos and taking your opinions into account and doing research to refine my choice, I tell myself that apart from the system of clips, the rest I can find elsewhere , example Studio One.

Cubase seems so complicated to learn, ergonomics not great, on the other hand big positive points for Studio One on the other hand.

My use just of virtual vst and samples and plug-ins effects.

Regarding the possibility of using multiple screens with Studio One, excellent.

For Bitwig, at the beginning I liked it well, advantages over Live, but Bitwig took a modular direction and that does not interest me, just like Max For Live elsewhere.

Thanks for the info for the Digital Performer DAW.

He has a music video launcher, great that, does he sound quite like DAW?

A sort of Cubase / Studio One.

Do you have any opinion on Digital Performer, both as a single DAW or in comparison to Live for the Clip Launcher and as a linear sequencer like Cubase / Studio One?

Is it stable, reasonable cpu consumption, good management of the ram, vst?

Digital Performer, is not the hybridization of a Cubase / Live?

Why don't we often talk about this DAW?


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## dylanmixer (Oct 8, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Cubase seems so complicated to learn, ergonomics not great, on the other hand big positive points for Studio One on the other hand.



You could argue, however, that the amount of literature and free tutorials and user created content on how to use Cubase is massive in comparison to Studio One. 

I have also considered Digital Performer from time to time, but I have heard that it is a nightmare on PC. And also pro composers tend to actually switch from Digital Performer to Cubase eventually for various reasons, it seems.


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## Trancer (Oct 8, 2020)

Thank you for your reply.

I never said that no tutorials or the like for Cubase.

Indeed, a lot of training in French even for Cubase and a lot of videos.

Less for Studio One, but for the latter, the handling is more intuitive, most certainly linked to ergonomics.

Thank you for the information regarding Digital Performer.

I have nothing against Cubase, quite the contrary, I just ask myself the question, what is there more than Studio One.

Except for the post production videos.


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## greggybud (Oct 9, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Thank you for your answers.
> 
> Apparently the bug problem is unfortunately a bit for everyone.
> 
> ...


Hello again. Based on your many questions, threads like this can go on forever. I'm not saying that is a bad thing however sometimes there is incorrect or misinterpreted answers, especially from users who are strong with one DAW but experiment or biased in others.

With this said I would suggest you go here:




__





AdmiralBumbleBee


Things that you want which you can't find anywhere else




www.admiralbumblebee.com









The DAW Feature Chart


Things that you want which you can't find anywhere else




www.admiralbumblebee.com





Robert, is a guy who just loves to test and attempt non-biased reports. All the DAWs can be found on the right side of that page.

There is plenty of information that hopefully will answer many of your questions.


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## Trancer (Oct 10, 2020)

Thank you for this feedback.

Thank you for this link, which seems very interesting and informative to me.

I will consult this with great attention.

What is great about this kind of test is that it can fuel discussion and exchange opinions.

It is true that sometimes certain opinions are more oriented because one prefers such a DAW to another or that the experience may vary according to the needs of another.

For my part I find that the messages answers and opinions of the community is a great help and brews an experience as well amateur as more experienced which gives this richness to this post and to others.

Indeed this kind of post can last indefinitely, it is precisely the interest.

To learn from each other's feedback, an excellent thing it seems to me.

Thanks again for your message and this link.


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## Trancer (Oct 10, 2020)

I read the test report and really very interesting.

Two DAWs do really well.

C is Cubase and Studio One, highest overall score.

Now more generalist DAW too, therefore more possibilities than others more targeted in their use.

On the other hand for handling, it is Live which has a clear advantage.

A really very interesting and very informative test.

Thanks again for this link


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## rgames (Oct 11, 2020)

I use both Live and Cubase. One thing that I don't think I saw mentioned was that you'll probably be much more comfortable with Cubase if you come from a traditional music background.

I would argue that you cannot make the same music in both, at least not easily. Everything you can do in Live from a production standpoint you can do in Cubase. But, IMHO, scoring to film or incorporating recordings that replace MIDI would be much more difficult in Live (does Live have a score editor option?). Cubase is a much more powerful application but for a lot of genres that power is not necessary.

From a loop-based live performance standpoint, however, Live is vastly superior to Cubase. Hence the name!

So, the answer is... it depends on what you want to do.

rgames


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## Trancer (Oct 11, 2020)

Thanks for your feedback.

My goal is to compose electronic music.

Live appeals to me because of its clip launcher that Cubase does not have, nor Studio One.

Positive point for Studio One, it has a dedicated controller the Atom Sq, which even if not like Live, allows an application that I also like.

A lot of composers in electronic music compose only with Cubase, some of them only use Live, because they do Live, as it is intended for that, more flexible for this exercise.

The more I advance, the more I read you, I consult the videos, the more I will be tempted to go towards a linear daw.

Moreover, Studio One, take a direction which will be able to add at least I hope, a launcher of clips, which would be the missing element for this Daw.

Cubase unless my error does not intend to use this function, which is a shame.

On the other hand, even if I have already discussed this, what does not reassure me are the bugs of Cubase and I have the impression that each new version has certain rules, but above all generates many others.

It looks a little different to me for Studio One, apparently it is rather lacking compared to Cubase for example.

Also for Cubase there is a problem with the GeForce graphics card, ok there would be a workaround, but hey a daw for more than 500 euros is going badly anyway.

I'm not saying Cubase bad, but Studio One seems to have less side concerns and seems to be more stable.

Compared to management, cpu consumption, apparently more or less the same, maybe a little better for Studio One.


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## greggybud (Oct 11, 2020)

Trancer said:


> Also for Cubase there is a problem with the GeForce graphics card, ok there would be a workaround, but hey a daw for more than 500 euros is going badly anyway.



Which cards? I have used 3 GeForce cards with 4 video monitor outs over the past 8 years with no problems whatsoever. I would not include GeForce Experience since that seems to be aimed toward gamers.


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## Trancer (Oct 11, 2020)

I am only recounting certain experiences, some configurations work wonderfully, others do not.

Same with some audio interfaces.

Computing is often capricious.

I'm just saying even if it is impossible to release a new version of a daw, it would be preferable to limit as much as possible some major incompatibilities or to generate more malfunctions than to resolve them.

Simply, there is incompatible material between them and often also a choice of less rigorous electronic components and therefore more prone to problems.

Here I take Cubase as an example, but it is not the only one.

We are often beta testers, which I find very regrettable.

The case of GeForce is certainly an isolated case, hence the example when it happens particularly annoying to put money in a Daw and for a problem that could most certainly be taken care of before going to market.

Again Cubase an example here, which doesn’t detract from the quality of this Daw.


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## StillLife (May 27, 2021)

Which did you decide on?
I was a Cubase user for many, many years, but I recently switched to Studio One / Presonos Sphere + Faderport 8. Cubase can do a LOT of course, but it felt so much more like work than now with Studio One. The latter is just a pleasure to work with, for me, and the community is great. There are great tutorials by Joe Gilder and Gregor B from which a learned a lot. I would highly recommend.


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