# The ARP 2600 reborn? Revisited? Who cares!



## wst3 (Jan 11, 2020)

First things first, if you are in any way interested in the history of synthesizers you really should watch this video:





Yes, they left out a couple of people instrumental in the development of the 2600, but then they only had 30 minutes, and lets face it, much of the history has been buried in the sands of time (that sand being silicon maybe?) For example, Jim Michmerhuizen wrote the original "owners manual" and it remains an excellent text on synthesis. But I digress!

Here's my dilemma - I have an ARP 2600, a fairly early example, it was the service center crash test dummy for years, so it too has some history. And it is not as reliable as I'd like, since it did take part in more than a few experiments. But when it works, well, it sounds fantastic.

I has been, for the most part, replaced by the TimewARP 2600 plugin, which sounds fantastic, and is certainly more flexible, and capable, but without the physical controls it is no where as fun. I recently purchased a KIWITechnics Patch Editor, and I've been working on adapting that. Previously I used a Kore2, but that was not quite up to the task.

I've also had problems with the external input, it does not behave quite the same. The rest is pretty darned close to the hardware, but the ability to plug in a microphone or my guitar was more than half the fun (the same was true of the Korg MS-20).

So why consider a $4000 synthesizer, especially a remake? Reliability would be one thing, built in MIDI would be another (I've tried numerous MIDI-to-CV/Gate converters, none are perfect). And the external input is a big lure. Access to both filter models is really attractive too.

On the other hand I do have one, and with a little effort (maybe a lot of effort?) I could restore it. And I could make a few changes I've always wanted to boot. And mine has some history behind it.

On the other hand, well, you get the idea. I am seriously tempted, and at the same time well aware of at least a dozen reasons ($4000 is a big one).

Just figured I should at least share the video, and possibly the news.

(I've been told that there is a good chance that the entire run is already spoken for - that would help me<G>!)


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## Technostica (Jan 11, 2020)

Do they do an OCD version without all the spaghetti?


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## Wes Antczak (Jan 11, 2020)

Thank you for sharing that video. 

I would love to get one and the price seems reasonable. There are also rumors of a Behringer clone, who imo, did a really nice job with the Odyssey. The build quality is also much better than Korg's version. If the Behringer rumors are true, it will be interesting to see what their asking price will be.

The Timewarp is a really nice virtual option, but didn't Jim kind of give up on it? The last time I had an issue I needed to contact Simon Bangs.

I agree that using a virtual instrument doesn't give the same tactile experience as using the hardware. Even mapping things to controllers isn't really the same thing.


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## Wes Antczak (Jan 11, 2020)

Just saw this at the Sweetwater site. Looks like a beautiful thing. Here is a video from Korg:


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## charlieclouser (Jan 11, 2020)

At college in 1981 I learned synthesis on an Arp 2500 with dual wing cabinets. The first synth I owned was an Arp Solus, which I used on many records. I've owned two different 2600's (an orange+black and a greyface) and used many more. I now own a TTSH 2600 clone, and it sounds great and I thought it would be as close as we're going to get in this day and age.

So when Korg announced the re-issue it was an instant "add-to-cart" moment. Done.

I would much rather have a brand-new, modern unit that sounds and operates as it was INTENDED to, which hopefully WILL be different to some broke-down vintage unit. It's quite easy for me to dirty up the sound of a modern unit if needed, but it's far more difficult to clean up the sound of a vintage unit when that's what's needed. I just want the damn thing to do what it says on the tin, with no unavoidable distortion in the signal path, no uneven response from ancient sliders, and no alligator clips gripping the broken-off shaft on the filter cutoff slider!

I sold off both of my originals as they just did not do what they said they were going to do most of the time, and they just became too troublesome to use most of the time. The reissue has MIDI and XLR outs - YES PLEASE.

So I'm all in on the 2600 FS reissue. For anyone complaining about the price point, there will be plenty of options - Behringer are doing a rack-mount version with some changes and LED sliders that will be mid-priced, Phil at CMS does his absolutely top-shelf boutique rack mount version with many mods at a premium price, the TTSH project is still going strong at a high-mid price, and Guitar Center accidentally used the wrong picture on their website which revealed the (possible) existence of a 2600-mini from Korg, which will have a 3-octave keyboard and a shrunk-down cabinet, similar to the MS-20mini. 

So for 2600 fans it is a great time to be alive - we're spoilt for choice.


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## tmhuud (Jan 11, 2020)

Oh- I- like- this.


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## Kent (Jan 11, 2020)

charlieclouser said:


> At college in 1981 I learned synthesis on an Arp 2500 with dual wing cabinets.


Me too! And straight to tape! But nearly 3 decades later. 😁

Still chasing that 2500 sound, though - the 2600 (which we also had) is another beast entirely. Sadly, I don’t see Korg RI’ing the 2500 any time soon...


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## Wes Antczak (Jan 12, 2020)

I wouldn't expect to see a 2500. It's cool enough that they're even doing a 2600. 

I'm interested in the possibility of a smaller version. Now that would be great. Besides the question of space, the lower price point would be something I could more easily justify to myself. It would also make a good companion to my MS-20 Mini and my Minilogue (I don't really mind the smaller keys). 

They also had a 2600 in the Electronic Music studio at my school, so that's one of the instruments I learned on. They had a 2600, a section of a 2500, and a Moog.


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## Mike Greene (Jan 12, 2020)

charlieclouser said:


> At college in 1981 I learned synthesis on an Arp 2500 with dual wing cabinets.





Wes Antczak said:


> They also had a 2600 in the Electronic Music studio at my school, so that's one of the instruments I learned on. They had a 2600, a section of a 2500, and a Moog.


I went to the wrong school ...


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## barteredbride (Jan 12, 2020)

wst3 said:


> First things first, if you are in any way interested in the history of synthesizers you really should watch this video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ok here is my reckless advice. 

Life is too short.

If you love the ARP 2600 and have the money then just get it!

Why not?! Go and have some fun.

You can always sell it again in the future.


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## Greg (Jan 12, 2020)

Somebody please hire me for a cyberpunk soundtrack  PLEASE. I need a reason to buy this before its too late


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## wst3 (Jan 13, 2020)

barteredbride said:


> Ok here is my reckless advice.
> 
> Life is too short.
> 
> ...



There is wisdom to your reckless advice. Seriously, that was initial reaction. I've worked hard, I pay my bills, and I could pay cash if I so desired, or get one of those lovely 0% financing deals, but it commits resources. Big difference between I can afford it, today, and it won't put me in a bind if something else goes wrong.

Sadly I've reached a point where I am a little more careful with my funds. And that is ok. I guess?



barteredbride said:


> You can always sell it again in the future.


I could also sell my "vintage" 2600, probably for more than the cost of the new one. (what a strange world!)

My wife understood me and my relationship with some types of gear. Before we married she went to a guitar show with me, and I was playing a lovely vintage instrument that was priced to sell, because it needed some work. The seller pointed out to my soon to be bride that it was an investment, and she laughed. "He'd have to be willing to sell it for it to be an investment". She was right.

My ARP 2600 served as the ARP service department crash test dummy for years, and it belonged to a very good friend, so no, it is not for sale. It has history. And it sounds good - when it is working<G>!

What Greg said rings true - if I had a project that would pay for it I'd buy it, just for grins if nothing else. That seems to be my approach lately.


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## IFM (Jan 14, 2020)

barteredbride said:


> Ok here is my reckless advice.
> 
> Life is too short.
> 
> ...


Okay I have to admit this put me over the edge. There is a March batch coming and I was lucky enough to get one on preorder. I don't think this opportunity will ever come up again and I'm only going around once.


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## Wes Antczak (Jan 20, 2020)

It looks like Berhringer will indeed have a rack version. Not nearly as nice as the reissue and without all the extra bells and whistles, but in some respects perhaps even more attractive since it will not require as much real estate in the studio. I can see this paired up with a Keystep Pro.

Arp 2600 rack


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## wst3 (Jan 20, 2020)

Phil Cirocco was selling a souped up rack mount version of the 2600, his choices for updates and upgrades make a lot of sense.

Sadly, at $8k it was out of my league<G>!


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## ironbut (Jan 20, 2020)

I'm a totally ITB guy but man,.. what a world we live in today!
It seems like a new dream reissue or the next "what everybody has been begging for" is released every week. 
I can't help wondering if this is a reaction to the success of modular synths?


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## Wes Antczak (Jan 20, 2020)

ironbut said:


> I'm a totally ITB guy but man,.. what a world we live in today!
> It seems like a new dream reissue or the next "what everybody has been begging for" is released every week.
> I can't help wondering if this is a reaction to the success of modular synths?



I was quickly heading for being totally in the box, but I'm glad that I did not follow through and still have most of my instruments, especially the analog ones. Of course, there are many things for which ITB makes total sense, especially for orchestral sounds, and synths like the ones from U-He are fantastic. But imo, there is definitely something to be said for being able to reach out and tweak that dial. Or even if it's an acoustic instrument, to be able to interact with the instrument. Even if you have everything mapped to your controller, I honestly believe that the experience just isn't the same. 

I recently re-watched the Bob Moog documentary, and he talks about the circuits being alive and reaching out to us through a deeper space (bad paraphrase, sorry), but I think there is a lot to be said for the idea. I know a lot of musicians who have moved away from being totally ITB or who perhaps have never even gone down that path. I think part of the reissue and analog market in general is in response to that trend. 

Really, it's whatever works for you personally, and whatever speaks to your creativity. Either way, it's a great time to be around when these choices are available, whether it's all the new more affordable hardware synths, or the fact that computers are getting more powerful and the software becoming better and better.


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## José Herring (Jan 20, 2020)

Mike Greene said:


> I went to the wrong school ...


Me too.


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## IFM (Jan 20, 2020)

I love both honestly. So much of what I am doing is ITB but I just have a connection with the hardware...probably because it was my only choice for so many years.

After watching the 2600 history video I learned things I didn't know about it. I also see Sam Ash was the first to sell an original and turns out that's where mine is coming from too. As for Behringer's version that does look cool but the full size is up my alley. 

Euro-rack...I've tried to get into it but I've yet to run into one that sounds all that exciting to me anyways. I don't need to spend five grand on modules to make cricket noises.


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## chimuelo (Jan 20, 2020)

So nice having a clone that actually looks and sounds like the original.
Always like the Signal Flow GUI.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Jan 20, 2020)

What is nice about the hardware is having the line you want it to play in the DAW, and then play it back against the rest of the mix. Having all the knobs right there to get it sitting just right is fast, and satisfying. Obviously one can do the same on a plugin, and I do. But it is easier, faster, more satisfying, direct, etc on the hardware. I also find that when working on sounds, it will rattle around in my head and I'll think about what is possible in THAT synth architecture and it will spur creativity around what I could try next. I also find that the hardware is better than most soft-synths. None of the NI synths end up in tracks - they just don't sound as good. I don't know why. Absynth excepted. The Solaris and OB6 just sound better and consistently work for me.


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## tmhuud (Jan 20, 2020)

I’ll spring for it. Should fit perfectly in with my latest project. Project even has rules for all involved. Has to be very vintage, no cgi, all practical effects, shot on film (no digital) so I’m sure this will fit in nicely for the score. Should make a nice behind the scenes piece as well.


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## tmhuud (Jan 20, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> So nice having a clone that actually looks and sounds like the original.
> Always like the Signal Flow GUI.



Agree with Signal Flow. I love it.


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## dcoscina (Jan 20, 2020)

I work music retail and just found out this is already sold out...everywhere. Korg only produced a limited run and every single one has been sold worldwide. Oh well. Maybe another batch will be released down the line. Congrats to the 2000 people who got their order in.


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## Vin (Jan 20, 2020)

IFM said:


> Euro-rack...I've tried to get into it but I've yet to run into one that sounds all that exciting to me anyways. I don't need to spend five grand on modules to make cricket noises.



Funny enough, crickets and blip-blops are the first thing I associate with the 2600


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## IFM (Jan 20, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> I work music retail and just found out this is already sold out...everywhere. Korg only produced a limited run and every single one has been sold worldwide. Oh well. Maybe another batch will be released down the line. Congrats to the 2000 people who got their order in.


Phew. I got confirmation that I’ve got one of the 10 that Sam Ash is getting.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Jan 20, 2020)

Congrats! I was up on the night it went live and could have gotten one - I visited the Sweetwater site and a few others. But it's a lot for a monosynth that I don't have any real historical connection to. For hardware, I pretty much only buy poly-synths. For mono, modular has won that game, I think. But I do get the appeal of such a beautiful re-creation of a legendary synth. I'm sure you will enjoy it!


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## chimuelo (Jan 20, 2020)

tmhuud said:


> Agree with Signal Flow. I love it.



I actually learned to program Subtractive Analog Synthesis from the ARP Odyssey because of the signal glow GUI.
Especially Sync and LFO parameter modulation.
Always thought Pearlman was a genius.


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## tmhuud (Jan 20, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> I actually learned to program Subtractive Analog Synthesis from the ARP Odyssey because of the signal glow GUI.
> Especially Sync and LFO parameter modulation.
> Always thought Pearlman was a genius.



Yes, Alan was a real genius. (Alan R. Pearlman aka ARP)

Truly missed. I think it’s been over a year since he’s passed Lots of up and downs he endured. Bankruptcy in the ‘80’s? ( I wanna say) 

But what a brilliant mind. I was thinking about him other day doing a demo for SeaWorld and the client was asking about the sounds used in CEOTTK. The 5 notes. As I played them I thought “ARP !! “ 

RIP Alan. But long live the legacy.


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## Craig Duke (Jan 21, 2020)

We were taught using the ARP 2600s and Tascam 80s at the U of Miami in the late 70s . I have fond memories of that classic. I remember the excitement when they acquired a few Prophet 5s in 1979 and some early custom digital synth components.


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## dcoscina (Jan 21, 2020)

IFM said:


> Phew. I got confirmation that I’ve got one of the 10 that Sam Ash is getting.


Congrats! Not only do you have a cool synth but a collectors item as well. I’m actually surprised at the resurgence of analog synths. Even 10 years ago there wasn’t the same amount of these retrologues around in music retail. Now there’s an abundance. I’ve sold two Moog One 16voice synths which runs about $10,000 up here in Canada. They are beasts!


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## STec (Jan 21, 2020)

If I hade to buy one analog synth it would be the ARP 2600. Hopefully they will produce another batch.

Not only it sounds great but I think it looks great too!


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## Wes Antczak (Feb 10, 2020)

Behringer have posted a demo


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## VinRice (Feb 13, 2020)

That Korg re-ish 2600 is a thing of utter beauty. Thank God it's sold out. I'll be getting the Behringer version at $799 which sounds pretty excellent and has a couple of useful extras (additional LFO and Sync on the oscillators).


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## charlieclouser (Feb 13, 2020)

Even though I have a Korg 2600 on the way, I love what Behringer is doing. Who would have thought, 30 years ago, that tens of thousands of dollars worth of analog synths could be bought brand-new for a couple of grand in this day and age? Fantastic.


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## VinRice (Feb 14, 2020)

I've made my peace with Behringer. Back in the day I used to hate their blatant copying of existing products and their own-brand pieces were sonically garbage. It's different now. There's some heavyweight engineering expertise on board and the revival/update of old analogue designs that the original manufacturers have no intention of re-issuing (apart from Korg's more genuine limited-edition recreations) seem fair game to me. I suspect they're going to see a lot of my money this year.


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## Fredeke (Feb 15, 2020)

The question is: does it sound good enough to justify its price?
Obviously, it should sound different enough from plugin clones to justify that.

And, obviously too, not everyone is sensitive to (or cares about) the sound difference - some might even prefer digital imitations because they are cleaner and easier to mix.

Me, I'm a sucker for authentic analog sound - and I'm not too concerned about production efficiency, which is good, otherwise there could be conflict there . So I'm the kind of pigeon they could sell it to, provided it delivers. But I'm afraid I'm in the minority.

And since it got part of the discussion: my 2 cents about Behringer recreations is that they sound cheaper than their original counterparts, though they certainly don't sound generic: they sound exactly like what they are, a passable imitation of a specific-sounding synth.


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## C.R. Rivera (Feb 15, 2020)

"a passable imitation"

Well, darn it, I will wait until Lamborghini lowers their prices substantially so I can afford the real thing.


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## Technostica (Feb 15, 2020)

C.R. Rivera said:


> "a passable imitation"
> 
> Well, darn it, I will wait until Lamborghini lowers their prices substantially so I can afford the real thing.


Wouldn't you prefer the original 70s Lamborghinis which use 'analogue' carburettors? They have a nicer sense of 'air' to them.


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## wst3 (Feb 15, 2020)

Fredeke said:


> The question is: does it sound good enough to justify its price?
> Obviously, it should sound different enough from plugin clones to justify that.
> 
> And, obviously too, not everyone is sensitive to (or cares about) the sound difference - some might even prefer digital imitations because they are cleaner and easier to mix.



There are things that the plugins (at least the TimewARP 2600) can do that the hardware can't. And vice-a-versa. I like having both at my disposal.

The TimewARP 2600 sounds freakishly close to my hardware, and does nearly everything the hardware can do. It still ain't the same.

Will the Korg (or the B) sound close enough? I may never find out<G>.

[QUOTE="FredekeMe, I'm a sucker for authentic analog sound - and I'm not too concerned about production efficiency, which is good, otherwise there could be conflict there . So I'm the kind of pigeon they could sell it to, provided it delivers. But I'm afraid I'm in the minority.[/QUOTE]
Not sure we are as small a minority as you think - I've spoken with several friends who are of the same "vintage" as I, and with one exception every one of them was considering it, and a couple even ordered one. The real minority will be owners, since it was a limited run.

Me? I have an original, and I decided that absent the MIDI bit I would have more fun, and get more out of it, by restoring mine. Courses for horses?

[QUOTE="FredekeAnd since it got part of the discussion: my 2 cents about Behringer recreations is that they sound cheaper than their original counterparts, though they certainly don't sound generic: they sound exactly like what they are, a passable imitation of a specific-sounding synth.
[/QUOTE]
My limited experience with Behringer - the gear I've used has had a cheapness about it that did not inspire confidence, granted that was some time ago, but it was enough to put me off, and that's before one discusses questionable business practices. (disclaimer - two good friends worked for them, so I have other influences.)

Long before that happened I was using their 8 channel A/D/A converter. It was competent sonically, but still felt somehow cheap. I did not feel good enough about it to purchase one or more.

I happen to have four Frontier Designs Tangos, which are very nice converters, and except for a problem with power supply capacitors - which is easily repaired - they have been working for me since the late 1990s. I keep an older PC that has the necessary PCI slots in the studio so I can use them when I need 32 analog inputs.

There are better converters, but I seldom need 32 inputs, so I will continue to use these. (even thinking about modifying them so I can use the outputs with Expert Sleepers Silent Way to drive my 2600 and MS-20. Probably never happen, but an interesting thought.


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## VinRice (Feb 15, 2020)

Fredeke said:


> The question is: does it sound good enough to justify its price?



Actually I don't think that's the question at all. It justifies it's price on many levels that are not concerned with sound. History, rarity, aesthetics, physicality, serendipity, user experience. If it was a plain white box that precisely re-created the sound of the original it would be of little interest.


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## Fredeke (Feb 15, 2020)

VinRice said:


> Actually I don't think that's the question at all. It justifies it's price on many levels that are not concerned with sound. History, rarity, aesthetics, physicality, serendipity, user experience. If it was a plain white box that precisely re-created the sound of the original it would be of little interest.


I completely agree.
I should have said "The question *for me* is..."


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