# Large tablet/touchscreen MIDI controller options?



## pmountford (May 28, 2015)

Watching the new JunkieXL videos and seeing Gerhard Westphalen's studio photo has started me wondering what large screen options are available for those who find the the iPad a little on the small side? I'm aware of the rumoured iPad Pro later this year but that's only a 12" screen.

Gerhard mentioned that he uses SmithsonMartin Emulator Pro which is Windows MIDI controller software using a touchscreen monitor. I rather like this idea but as I'm already using Lemur I would have preferred to stick with it.

I emailed Liine and they say they have no plans moving Lemur to Windows at the moment. So does that leave two options? 
1) Use a touchscreen monitor on a Windows PC with some sort of Android emulator - is this like a devkit for testing Android software or are there other emulator [/url]options? 
2) Use a large Android tablet such as Nabi Big Tab to run the recently released Android version of Lemur?

Thoughts, opinions or suggestions?


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 28, 2015)

Does it have to be ipad/android? I've been using this setup for over a year and it's great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGkHeWnBlPc


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## Bohrium (May 28, 2015)

Well, I think you want to do more than just using a MIDI CC ... 

If not, an IPad portrait with Lemur has a pretty long way to go from 0 to 127 

If you're trying to control a lot simultaneously ... then you need more space. Me, if I'm just controlling a few important paramters 'in realtime' I use a simple controller in Lemur. Never used it portrait, though.


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## pmountford (May 28, 2015)

@wilx Thanks for sharing that video. I was thinking more for using the touchscreen to control the software libs (8DIO, Spitfire etc) but a touchscreen monitor does seem like an interesting idea. Does it speed up workflow?


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 28, 2015)

Well the advantage of dedicated controller apps like TouchOSC is that they're designed specifically to be touchscreen interfaces for particular programs, so I'd presume that sort of setup would be a better no-nonsense workflow enhancer.

Having a full size touchscreen monitor does speed up workflow for me, but not hugely. It's more about the immediacy and fun of being able to touch my virtual synths and plugins. Great for Zebra XY pads and Embertone XY control. Not so good for smaller, fiddly buttons that aren't designed for touchscreen.

Also, the monitor is on a protruding shelf I built into my desk, so I can lay it almost flat and use it stood up - which is great for when I want to spend a few minutes not sitting down.


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## Ozymandias (May 28, 2015)

pmountford @ Thu May 28 said:


> 1) Use a touchscreen monitor on a Windows PC with some sort of Android emulator - is this like a devkit for testing Android software or are there other emulator [/url]options?



Keep in mind that there are Android PCs ("TV boxes") that will work with separate touchscreen monitors. I don't own one, but from what I've read on the Liine forums people seem to be using them successfully.


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## Pablocrespo (May 28, 2015)

I want to do this sometime in the future:

http://youtu.be/vieVHhNUWMw

Is an android tv box, as mentioned. I wish liine would port lemur to windows....maybe we just send them emails every week!


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## pmountford (May 28, 2015)

I wouldn't hold out too much hope for a Windows version according to the response I got from Liine yesterday:

"There are no plans at the moment for a Windows. I am aware of some people using Lemur on very large Android displays (upwards of 20 inches) but I wouldn't be able to recommend an exact model."


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## wexberg (May 28, 2015)

Hi *pmountford*,

You're in luck.
Windows has an AMAZING android virtualization software called *Bluestacks* (free!).
It is important to note, this is not some sort of emulator, this is full virtualization, literally running the same Android experience on your desktop. 

Just like you, I e-mailed liine and asked them if they were going to port to Windows. They sent me the same response, seems like they don't have it in their business plan.

So I went ahead and looked for a way to run it on Windows anyway, which turned me to Bluestacks. Lemur runs flawlessly on my Surface Pro 3 windows tablet running Bluestacks to use Lemur. It is fairly easy to setup if you've setup Lemur before.

It's also valid to purchase an Android tablet and start straight from there, but for me, having a Windows touchscreen was important as it gave me complete flexibility, whereas an iOS/Android tablet limits you to either of those ecosystems (and if that's all you need, then your fine to get just that).

Hope this helps.


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## pmountford (May 28, 2015)

Hi Wex - yeah absolutely it helps. 

I'm looking at going the touchscreen monitor route so the emulator is a consideration especially as I'm used to Lemur. Can I ask whether you considered the Andriod TV Box option? Someone using Lemur, Android TVBox & touchscreen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vieVHhNUWMw


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## samphony (May 28, 2015)

This is fantastic. I totally missed that lemur is on android now. 

Any suggestions regarding touchscreen and android box? Which will work together?


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## Pablocrespo (May 28, 2015)

wexberg @ Thu May 28 said:


> Hi *pmountford*,
> 
> You're in luck.
> Windows has an AMAZING android virtualization software called *Bluestacks* (free!).
> ...



So, do you think bluestacks can run a heavy lemur session (artsunmuted for example) on a desktop pc ? it would be great to connect that pc to the master daw via ethernet cable...


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## samphony (May 31, 2015)

I've researched a bit but got mixed results. Does anyone know which android TV box works out of the box with what touchscreen? Otherwise a mini PC or older Mac mini with win and a touchscreen might be another option. 

Thanks


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## dgburns (May 31, 2015)

wexberg @ Thu May 28 said:


> Hi *pmountford*,
> 
> You're in luck.
> Windows has an AMAZING android virtualization software called *Bluestacks* (free!).
> ...



Some questions for you..

which Surface pro are you using?

how are you connecting to your daw,wifi or midibox or ethernet for both osc and midi?

I see that while Bluestacks is "free" ,it is supported by ads unless you go for the pro version which is subscription only(yuk), they mention the ads can slow things down,is this an issue for you?

I'm also seeing rumours of an ipad "pro" coming out maybe later this year with a bigger display and possible usb3 or usbc or thunderbolt ...fyi to ya'll ppl.no word on cost yet.

I'm really close to trying myfi and jbreaking the ipads to use,but I'm a bit chicken to go down that route just yet.curious to see how android develops.I could use a cabled connection as the wifi is not up to the performance for me.

Can't beleive there's not a lemur alternative on win8,such a shame.


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## pmountford (May 31, 2015)

@dgburns I was considering the iPad Pro route (currently using iPad3) but if the rumours do materialise into fact you're still only talking a 12" screen so not really a massive improvement on screen space and after looking at all of these comparatively well priced 23" touchscreen monitors (sub £200) then I'd find it difficult to justify an 'upgrade' to iPad Pro. So I'm interested in hearing any answers to your questions too.


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## dgburns (May 31, 2015)

a while back I got a very inexpensive viewsonic(i think) touchscreen that had two finger capability.I thought i'd connect to win8 but found that off axis view quality to be horrible.It did say that in the review before I bought,but just something to think about if you plan on laying the screen down flat-like in from of you a la Junkie xl and company .It makes sense to put it there,just behind the keyboard/mouse,and currently I have two ipad 2's there running lemur.I was thinking about getting a third as well,but now I just don't know anymore.Make sure the touchscreen has a good off axis view.Ipads and tablets seem fine to me.
the touchscreen win8 thing was a bit of a bust for me because the screen off axis was bad and the screen was a tad bit big being in front of me between the main monitor and mouse,the main monitor is still a 30" lg.not quite as comfie looking as Junkie's setup I admit.

I also think that while bigger may be better,there is something to be said for compact too.I can yank an ipad and drive the daw from behind the mics if setup a few feet away while tracking myself etc.

then there is the challenge of setting up your lemur layout,which for me has taken on quite a voyage from a few years back to today.I spend far too much time refining and altering the layout based on how I think makes sense.I must be kinda dumb/slow cause i think I spend alot of time sorting out problems,like how to select interfaces remotely,as well as lemur scripting things,which I'm fairly poor at.
I also really want to get away from the wifi shitiness,the midi cc's just don't draw in very well.I put a IK media irig midi on one ipad and it does a great job of sending midi like I expect from a controller.

anyway,sorry for the book,just rambling a bit here


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## JohnG (May 31, 2015)

another somewhat relevant thread is here:

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtop ... t=#3862888

"How do you use your iPad?"


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## InLight-Tone (Jun 13, 2015)

wexberg @ Thu May 28 said:


> Hi *pmountford*,
> 
> You're in luck.
> Windows has an AMAZING android virtualization software called *Bluestacks* (free!).
> ...



Wex, is there any way you can tell me how to setup Lemur with Bluestacks? I also have a Surface Pro but I can't get Lemur to see any midi ports running on my host computer. Any hints would be appreciated!


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## Waywyn (Jul 8, 2015)

wexberg said:


> Hi *pmountford*,
> 
> You're in luck.
> Windows has an AMAZING android virtualization software called *Bluestacks* (free!).
> ...



Could you please tell me how do you solved the WLAN/WIFI problems? I am not sure how many hours I spent to get this going but I couldn't get Lemur to connect with my PC! Thanks!


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## fuzzface (Jul 8, 2015)

Waywyn said:


> Could you please tell me how do you solved the WLAN/WIFI problems? I am not sure how many hours I spent to get this going but I couldn't get Lemur to connect with my PC! Thanks!


Unfortunatley there's no way to run lemur with android emulaotr including bluestack. 
Only way is buying a android tv box


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## Waywyn (Jul 9, 2015)

fuzzface said:


> Unfortunatley there's no way to run lemur with android emulaotr including bluestack.
> Only way is buying a android tv box



Yes I thought so, but what is that post about from Wexberg then?


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## samphony (Jul 9, 2015)

wilx said:


> Does it have to be ipad/android? I've been using this setup for over a year and it's great.



What driver did you install to support that screen?

I think the screen has huge input lag how do you work around that?


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jul 9, 2015)

samphony said:


> What driver did you install to support that screen?
> 
> I think the screen has huge input lag how do you work around that?



It was a touch-base driver. I can do multi touch using it. The lag is actually mostly from Logic's side - perhaps because of the project size. Clicking on buttons/tabs is a bit laggy to start with, and the touchscreen only adds maybe 15-30ms on top.

Incidentally, I just bought an iPad for the main reason of using logic remote after struggling to setup reliable key command buttons in TouchOSC/Android. I've only used it for a few hours so far but it's clearly going to be a huge productivity boost and time saver.


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## samphony (Jul 9, 2015)

Yea I use logic remote for the same reason.


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## iMovieShout (Sep 5, 2017)

Hey everyone,
Needing some help here with regards to Lemur on a Android TV Box with a Hanns-G HT225 touchscreen.
iPad is becoming frustrating due to the lack of screen space. So I have decided to go the extra mile(s) and try the touchscreen route.

Touchscreen works fine and I'm using an NVIDIA Shield TV Android box. KODI etc all install fine, but it seems Google Play won't let Lemur install from the Google Play site (or direct from Liine's site). 
Has anyone else run in to this issue? Has anyone any suggestions as to how I can get it installed on the Shield TV box? I am wondering if there is a work around to fool Google Play in to thinking that the Shield TV Box can install Lemur?


Thanks,
Jon


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## jononotbono (Jun 14, 2018)

jpb007.uk said:


> Hey everyone,
> Needing some help here with regards to Lemur on a Android TV Box with a Hanns-G HT225 touchscreen.
> iPad is becoming frustrating due to the lack of screen space. So I have decided to go the extra mile(s) and try the touchscreen route.
> 
> ...



Jon, I was just wondering if you got Lemur and a TV box to work and if so, could you recommend me a TV Box? I’m eager to try Lemur out with a 27 inch Touch screen.

Thanks!


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## iMovieShout (Jun 15, 2018)

jononotbono said:


> Jon, I was just wondering if you got Lemur and a TV box to work and if so, could you recommend me a TV Box? I’m eager to try Lemur out with a 27 inch Touch screen.
> 
> Thanks!



Yep - I have Lemur running on an NVIDIA SHIELD Smart TV with Hanns-G touchscreen. The Lemur editor is a bit temperamental as it corrupts its windows graphics alot of the time and then crashes - but not a show stopper. It would probably work with a cheaper Smart TV box though I've never tried that.

Jon


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## topaz (Sep 9, 2018)

Has anyone using an android box and touch screen found a way not have to keep unplugging and replugging the usb cable to keep the multi touch function alive ?

An app or physical usb switch ?


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## iMovieShout (Sep 10, 2018)

topaz said:


> Has anyone using an android box and touch screen found a way not have to keep unplugging and replugging the usb cable to keep the multi touch function alive ?
> 
> An app or physical usb switch ?


No sorry - we haven't had that problem. Touchscreen is always active except when the screen goes to sleep which is set at 30 minutes in my case, but it always wakes up instantly when its touched and works fine. Maybe try a different USB cable.


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## ThomasL (Sep 10, 2018)

Running a 22" Dell multi touch monitor (with drivers from Touch Base) on my Mac. Since Studio One has a TUIO server built in I'm in like heaven. Coupled with a Console 1 and a Faderport Classic I think my setup is complete.


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## ThomasL (Jan 11, 2019)

And now!

Greatest touch controller ever! Dell multi-touch monitor running my own coded "remote control" via Chrome and Webmidi.js.

Instant access to all orchestral libraries key switches, a CC#2 and CC#1 X/Y pad and even all of my Roland JV-2080 synth patches (hit record, press a button and the program change gets recorded)


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## iMovieShout (Jan 11, 2019)

ThomasL said:


> And now!
> 
> Greatest touch controller ever! Dell multi-touch monitor running my own coded "remote control" via Chrome and Webmidi.js.
> 
> Instant access to all orchestral libraries key switches, a CC#2 and CC#1 X/Y pad and even all of my Roland JV-2080 synth patches (hit record, press a button and the program change gets recorded)



Nice !!! I wonder how this setup compares to a Liine Lemur setup?
I guess you just need to organise your desk now


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## ThomasL (Jan 11, 2019)

Coding in Liine's editor sucks. It's very buggy and don't support a multiple monitor setup at all (on desktop that is).

My desk is *very* organized, the Dell is on a Vesa arm so I just tilt it upwards when I need all keys. I'll post a pic in a bit...


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## ThomasL (Jan 11, 2019)

Like this...


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## samphony (Jan 11, 2019)

ThomasL said:


> Like this...


Does the web api allow to send key commands as well? Do you use a WYSIWYG editor to create your layout?

What about latency?


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## ThomasL (Jan 11, 2019)

Layout is code only, no GUI editor. Everything is on one page and the menu is simply hiding/showing different DIVs so it's much easier to do it all in code.

No noticeable latency since it's only key switches and some MIDI CC's. People have been building whole synths, sequencers and whatnot on the platform so I guess it's as good as regular MIDI. The touch screen itself has a bit of latency when dealing with web browsers but not so much that I've been bothered by it yet.

No key commands, for that I've got this "prototype" for MIDI editing, planning on adding a second for audio editing


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## Havoc911 (Jan 12, 2019)

An Acer 27" touch screen and Dtouch from Devil Technologies or the CPU bundle from 14bitMIDI both work very well.


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## Shubus (Feb 2, 2019)

Havoc911 said:


> An Acer 27" touch screen and Dtouch from Devil Technologies or the CPU bundle from 14bitMIDI both work very well.


DTouch is Windows only


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## samphony (Feb 2, 2019)

Emulator 2 by Touch Innovations is Mac and PC. I came across that during my research.


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## Havoc911 (Feb 6, 2019)

Shubus said:


> DTouch is Windows only


Which is why I also mentioned CPU Bundle which is VST and not OS specific.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 6, 2019)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> logic remote



Love it.

Actually, I like the iPhone version even more. Nothing rational about it, I just do.


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## 24dBFS (May 8, 2019)

Hi guys!
CPU-E and CPU-F has become SHERLOCK & WATSON and a free demo version is available for Mac and Win on the website. www.14bitMIDI.com
Just follow the Install PDF files and the Manual will help you get going in no time!
Cheers!


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## Dewdman42 (May 8, 2019)

Ive never heard of this, what does it do?


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## 24dBFS (May 8, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> Ive never heard of this, what does it do?



In short: you can assign any Cubase/Nuendo command to one of the 192 buttons (SHERLOCK) or 48 buttons (WATSON) plus there are special pre-build commands available using Logical Editor and Project Logical Editor and a lot of generic MIDI events like Note On, CC# and Program Changes. All the settings can be stored on one of 18 Pages for quick access. There are more features like 16 assignable CC# sliders per Page, Trackslider, Timeslider, XY-Pads etc.
Until there are YouTube clips showing exactly what it does reading the manual might help in understanding the main functions of it.


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## jonathanparham (May 9, 2019)

Is there a plan to develop this on other platforms? Pro Tools or Logic or live?


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## jononotbono (May 9, 2019)

I can’t wait to get home, plug this in and see what it’s like!


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## 24dBFS (May 9, 2019)

jonathanparham said:


> Is there a plan to develop this on other platforms? Pro Tools or Logic or live?


Yes, since the plugin is using MIDI to trigger commands from the DAW it might be used with other DAWs than Cubase/Nuendo. After I finish the Manual and some YouTube videos there will be an AU version in the making.
Even this version have a "Generic" mode that uses only generic MIDI commands ignoring all the Cubase/Nuendo stuff but since its VST it can't be used with Logic at the moment (but it can with any VST capable DAW).
Cheers!


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## iMovieShout (May 10, 2019)

Looks interesting, but I still prefer Liine Lemur for its flexibility, formatting and looks, and in any case my setup has well over 600 separate controls (and keeps increasing as I find workflow improvements). Of course the downside of Liine Lemur is the time needed to experiment and code the software.


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## 24dBFS (May 10, 2019)

jpb007.uk said:


> Looks interesting, but I still prefer Liine Lemur for its flexibility, formatting and looks, and in any case my setup has well over 600 separate controls (and keeps increasing as I find workflow improvements). Of course the downside of Liine Lemur is the time needed to experiment and code the software.



Since this is a VST plugin it runs from your DAW like any other VSTs and there is no need to deal with networks etc. Also, there is basically zero time needed to learn how to assign commands and no need to program anything - everything is already there in the Menu. 
And finally it targets different group of customers since you don't run it on an iPad but a regular monitor or a touch screen. 
Cheers!


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## jonathanparham (May 10, 2019)

24dBFS said:


> Yes, since the plugin is using MIDI to trigger commands from the DAW it might be used with other DAWs than Cubase/Nuendo. After I finish the Manual and some YouTube videos there will be an AU version in the making.
> Even this version have a "Generic" mode that uses only generic MIDI commands ignoring all the Cubase/Nuendo stuff but since its VST it can't be used with Logic at the moment (but it can with any VST capable DAW).
> Cheers!


Thank you. I look forward to updates


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