# Trailer music chord progression



## Ciochi (Jun 7, 2021)

Hey there. I'm in this world (trailer music) not for long. I'm a 35y musician with no formal education on music theory, but I play guitar since 15 and piano from 9, although this one I stopped for nearly 20 years and go back studying it in the last year with lockdowns going on.
I always made music, first as solo guitarist, then as an electronic music producer about 6-7 years ago. I produced exclusively drum and bass, for which there is no melody or harmony or whatsoever, most tracks are in F to be poweful on subs, and from an year or so I started my journey in this world. I really like trailer music, but I always struggle on chord progressions. Not that I can't make any, I do, but I end up having something sad, dramatic, but not epic. This doesn't mean I've not made any epic tracks, but everytime is a luck factor to come up with something epic, rather than a repetible process.
I've lurked a lot of 3ds, watched tuts, spent countless hours at the piano but I still struggle with it. At the end, if I put some slow swelling strings and some soulfoul melodies my progressions are so heart breaking that could fit the afternoon of a single person struggling to have lost the love of their life.
I know mediants, I've know some tricks, but somehow those don't work during my production. I've started thinking that is because I always start with some felt piano, so I've started with an heavy brass ensemble. Still, at the same point.
Any help?


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## Allen Constantine (Jun 7, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> Hey there. I'm in this world (trailer music) not for long. I'm a 35y musician with no formal education on music theory, but I play guitar since 15 and piano from 9, although this one I stopped for nearly 20 years and go back studying it in the last year with lockdowns going on.
> I always made music, first as solo guitarist, then as an electronic music producer about 6-7 years ago. I produced exclusively drum and bass, for which there is no melody or harmony or whatsoever, most tracks are in F to be poweful on subs, and from an year or so I started my journey in this world. I really like trailer music, but I always struggle on chord progressions. Not that I can't make any, I do, but I end up having something sad, dramatic, but not epic. This doesn't mean I've not made any epic tracks, but everytime is a luck factor to come up with something epic, rather than a repetible process.
> I've lurked a lot of 3ds, watched tuts, spent countless hours at the piano but I still struggle with it. At the end, if I put some slow swelling strings and some soulfoul melodies my progressions are so heart breaking that could fit the afternoon of a single person struggling to have lost the love of their life.
> I know mediants, I've know some tricks, but somehow those don't work during my production. I've started thinking that is because I always start with some felt piano, so I've started with an heavy brass ensemble. Still, at the same point.
> Any help?


Hi,

I'm thinking that this can help you out?

Great guy!
@Waywyn 







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## Ciochi (Jun 7, 2021)

AllenConstantine said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm thinking that this can help you out?
> 
> ...


I already have read this 3d and have evaluated taking the course. Unfortunately, this is completely out of reach atm having had to buy a lot of stuff.


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## davidson (Jun 7, 2021)

Have you tried transcribing the type of music you're hoping to make?


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## Ciochi (Jun 7, 2021)

Indeed I've done it. Not extensively, but I've reproduced some tracks I liked it. 
And with my surprise, I managed to do that quite accurately by ear, which I never managed to do before.
However, that didn't help me a lot. When I ref a track before composing, I tend to be too much influenced by it. And I can't generalize in any case the concepts.


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## YaniDee (Jun 7, 2021)

Get Scaler (pluginboutique.com) ..all the progressions you can handle.


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## Loïc D (Jun 7, 2021)

Are you sure your problem lies in chord progression ? 
To me trailer music is a lot more about mastering tension/release and production than chords used.
Alex has free vids on YouTube you can learn a lot from.


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## mopsiflopsi (Jun 7, 2021)

It might help to post a short example where you went for epic but ended up with sad or something else instead. Then people can give you more precise feedback instead of trying to guess what the problem might be.


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## jcrosby (Jun 7, 2021)

Trailer harmony really isn't as complicated you might think it is. Most of it is more or less based around simple progressions. Some newer trailers are re-using chord progressions from pop songs, just voiced differently. Even when a trailer track borrows from classical it's not nearly as complicated as you might think. It's usually a 3 or 4 chord simple progression that isn't really any more complicated than a 4 chord pop song.

One of the tricks you probably hear (which took me me a bit to really nail early on), is harmony that moves upward as the progression comes to a close. I.e. the underlying progression stays the same but the voicings change in way that moves upward, and/or new voices are stacked on top as you get to the end of a section to create a climbing effect. This increases tension while also making the harmony appear more complex and adding density...

The 'chords' are usually voiced with brass, choir, or both. Rules like writing correctly for sections are more or less broken all the time. (You still want to voice things well, but it's not uncommon to have some notes playing in more than one octave, having trombones and trumpets both playing overlapping notes...). While that might twist some knickers, the goal is for it to sound larger than life more so than sounding 'correct'. Ultimately you're building a wall of sound intended to sell the excitement and anticipation to see a movie.

One other key element is to leave the last chord deliberately unresolved. In the example below, (the 1st track), you have a simple progression that's built around B min-A Maj-G Maj-E Maj. The last cycle of the backend however steps up to an FMaj. The F# hangs there for a few extra bars.

By ending on an unresolved chord you essentially leave the music hanging in a state of tension. Holding it unresolved for a few bars increases tension because you really want to hear it resolve when the progression would normally cycle back around again... Meanwhile you'll typically have risers and FX adding non-musical tension by signaling that things have hit maximum intensity and it's all about to collapse.

This has the added benefit of allowing you to bring back elements from earlier sections that revolve around the tonic as a way to close the track.

Overall 'epic' trailer tracks these days tend to leave the harmony for the backend. Basically the intro, builds, mid-sections and/or breakdowns tend to be built around the tonic. If done well This gives the backend even more of a lift.

Also there's one example below where the backend isn't left unresolved, (The 2nd track). This works because the backend more or less stays centered on the tonic. It's also a great example of a simple harmony that continues to move upward until hanging on the final few bars.


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## cet34f (Jun 7, 2021)

Maybe you can post an example?

---

Jcrosby has kindly provided an example : Divine Hammer from 1:30

The chords are
Bm --> A --> G --> E
Bm --> A --> G --> Em - F#

The chords in the first phrase are from B Dorian.
The chords in the second phrase are from B Harmonic Minor.

So we have a simple form of modal mixture here. But if you listen closely, you can also hear some 13th tension notes in the first two chords, creating some extra tension for the music.

Maybe the tension notes confused you, so you could not hear the harmony clearly?


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## jcrosby (Jun 7, 2021)

cet34f said:


> Jcrosby has kindly provided an example : Divine Hammer from 1:30
> 
> The chords are
> Bm --> A --> G --> E
> Bm --> A --> G --> Em - F#


Thanks for catching that, F# not F. Updated the original post...


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## Ciochi (Jun 8, 2021)

Wow, a lot of answers, thank you guys.


jcrosby said:


> One of the tricks you probably hear (which took me me a bit to really nail early on), is harmony that moves upward as the progression comes to a close. I.e. the underlying progression stays the same but the voicings change in way that moves upward, and/or new voices are stacked on top as you get to the end of a section to create a climbing effect. This increases tension while also making the harmony appear more complex and adding density...


I am starting to realize this too. I've lurked a 3d in this section with a HZ progression where just the inversion make an huge difference. I never really considered inversions in my life, but I need to work on those.
The first example you posted is exactly what I intend to big and epic, more than the second one.



mopsiflopsi said:


> It might help to post a short example where you went for epic but ended up with sad or something else instead. Then people can give you more precise feedback instead of trying to guess what the problem might be.



This is the only track I feel it's quite in the right direction. My following attempts miserably failed, such as this one:

or this other one, where I abandon the epic trail to go wherever the music brings me:

Just consider that whenever I sit and compose, I want to make an epic trailer track. I always fail and end with tracks like this:

This latter is the last one I made, a few days ago, completely on the fly with few libraries available, no keyboard and only airpods (I'm at the hospital).


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## jcrosby (Jun 9, 2021)

1 and 2 are definitely the closest. A lot of it still feels a bit underscore-ish.

For example in Apollo from 1:06 onward you're much closer than in the 1st half. (I'm not saying it's bad FYI). I'm just saying trailers have a very specific vibe, and basically should leave you feeling 'engaged' from the beginning to the end... Every part serves a specific role. It's easy to think that _an intro's just an intro._

But like DnB, the intro serves more than one role. Sure the intro in a DnB track sets the vibe. But it's equally important that it gives the DJ a sparse rhythmic basis they can use to sync your track to whatever they're currently playing... Each section of a trailer should be thought of as serving some kind of role. The overall goal is to create a steady increase in tension & energy so the backend really knocks you over.

Structure Overview: Trailers typically have 3 or 4 part structures. There are variations, but the variations generally follow the same rules. A straight ahead 3 part structure would be: Intro-Build-Backend. A variation on a 3 part structure might be: Intro-Build-Backend-Re-establishing the beginning (for 4-6 bars) for a 'soft' _closing_ effect. This helps it feel more like a story... A 4 part structure might be: Intro-Build-Breakdown-Backend. Or: Intro-Build-Mid-Section-Backend-Intro-(soft close)...

Mood: Trailers tend to set a mood and stick to it. If you start by writing the backend then the question you need to ask yourself as you work backward is what's the vibe of the backend? Is it aggressive, tense, heroic? Now how do I establish that mood from the beginning and stick to it?

Overall each section needs to feel related to one another. You wouldn't have a backend that's suddenly heroic after a buildup that's all tension. If you want to think of it in terms of EDM (which actually is a great analogy), think of it more like a minimal techno or house track - The track may have definable sections, like and intro, build, breakdown, drop... But overall a really good techno track is about evolution... The mood is established at the beginning, each section builds off of the previous, but continues to evolve the 'vibe' consistently from end to end... The 'vibe also intensifies as the track evolves....

Intros: Trailers of tend start with 30-45 seconds of things being fairly sparse. The sparseness is very deliberate, this section essentially is designed to provide atmosphere specifically for supporting dialogue. The sparseness also creates contrast, helping the track to have a sense of consistently building from beginning to end.... That said, it should naturally evolve into next section, the build... Gaps are often used to define each section. Your SFX edits between 1:06 and where your 'backend' starts are a good example of how you define each section. these gaps allow an editor to cut your track up to fit the picture as needed...

Builds: This is exactly what it sounds like. That said this is often where you start to establish some of the things to expect in the backend. As I mentioned in a previous post the current trend is for the intro and build to stick to the tonic; harmony is most often left for the backend. It isn't a requirement by any means though, it's just what's trendy in the past year-ish. Most, if not all of the examples below use harmony throughout.

Breakdowns or midsections: These can be handled in different ways... you could have a breakdown that takes the energy down, much like an EDM track... Or you could have a mid section. a mid seciton typically is an alternate section. That said, adding an alternate section where you might introduce a few new sounds can be trickier to pull off than you might think. It still needs to feel related to the track as a whole... This approach would ultimately serve to give the editor some flexibility. They could essentially re-adapt and re-organize your track with more flexibility by giving them a mid section... Again though... You stick to the tonic, and need to consider that the goal is to ratchet up the tension even more... But not so much that the backend feels anticlimactic...

Backend: This is like the chorus of a pop track, or the drop of an EDM track. If it were a weapon it would be the payload  At least in the context of 'epic' this should really hit you like a ton of bricks...
Here are some things I notice about what would be the _backend_ of Apollo...

It feels like it's trying to end at 1:36, but then the pattern starts again. Basically: Climbing up to a high note signals an ending. So basically this defeats the goal of it feeling like it's moving toward an ending that's the peak of intensity. It has kind of an anticlimactic effect. Like a melody, notes that lead into one another are more effective. As the saying goes, simplest is best...

It also needs more layers. It needs some kind of high ostinato to drive it along, the stabs alone make it feel more like a breakdown or like you're in a state of waiting for an ending to drop any second. You can't go wrong with a fast but simple high ostinato, distorted synths/bramms layered in adding some it some grit, a low or mid pulse adding the impression that the backend's really cruising along... Basically a backend tends to have lots of layers and lots of motion; motion that feels like it's propelling the track forward toward a climactic end.

Finally your mixes could use some bite... the horns need to cut more, and the strings need to really ride the mix when you hit the backend. Listen to how crisp both are in the examples below...

It also sounds like you're sticking to middle registers with your strings, (or they're getting buried in the mix in the endings). You'll notice they use the full range, especially the high registers in the backend, and these really need to cut through. And as I mentioned, ostinatos are pretty much standard... That said listen to how simple yet elegant they are. It's a fine line between a great one and something that feels a little generic...

Again, the feedback above is intended to be helpful, not critical. Really do hope this helps... (I wouldn't have written as much as I have if that weren't the case!)

Examples below. Pay attention specifically to the brass and strings... The lyrical/bold/heroic french horn line isn't something you hear much of these days. (Something I hear in a lot of the 'epic' music people post). Same with choir... Choir's used more as a means to emphasize the harmony and fill out the mix, but unlike 6-7 years ago it doesn't dominate the track at all... Brass often tends to be the backbone of the harmony. Or like in the example above (redshift), and the example below (Infinity War), the line is minimal, often consisting of as few notes as possible. Both of these tracks are fantastic examples of how tense this approach can be vs taking a melodic approach.

I'd highly recommend buying some of Audiomachine's newer albums. They don't have a lot publicly available but Volturnus is defintely worth grabbing. You might give Cinematix a listen as well. I personally buy anything really killer that's new and shows up on my radar because the genre is ever-changing...


*Here are a few examples you might 'study':*





(VERY modern. Audiomachine are where anyone interested in trailers specifically should start as a reference point of what defines 'epic' lately. Audiomachine sets a lot of trends, epic is one area where they've especially redefined the 'genre'....)






(Very different. Super dark. Thought this was a great example of how broad and different 'epic' is these days...)












*More traditional/orchestral focus 'epic' tracks:*







(Great example of how sparse intros can be. Also an example of how the harmony's established early on, but the track continues to build and never loses steam. Finally notice how the 'stabs' (basically what Appollo's backend consists of) are used to close the backend, not as the basis for the 'backend')






(Pay attention from 1:09 onward. Also notice how simple but effective the brass in the backend is. Two notes form the core of the horns. These two 'feature' notes also provide incredible tension.)


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## Ciochi (Jun 9, 2021)

Wow. This is what I love from this world, the orchestration world. People is respectful and willing to help. I am in the forum world from early 2000s and never found a community like this. My faith in humanity is still alive because of you.


jcrosby said:


> 1 and 2 are definitely the closest. A lot of it still feels a bit underscore-ish.
> 
> For example in Apollo from 1:06 onward you're much closer than in the 1st half. (I'm not saying it's bad FYI). I'm just saying trailers have a very specific vibe, and basically should leave you feeling 'engaged' from the beginning to the end... Every part serves a specific role. It's easy to think that _an intro's just an intro._
> 
> ...



Today I'm switching with my wife back home from the hospital and I'll make a proper study of this. Thanks so much mate.


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## jcrosby (Jun 10, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> Wow. This is what I love from this world, the orchestration world. People is respectful and willing to help. I am in the forum world from early 2000s and never found a community like this. My faith in humanity is still alive because of you.
> 
> Today I'm switching with my wife back home from the hospital and I'll make a proper study of this. Thanks so much mate.


You bet!! VI-C's a great place with a lot of great people. Hope it helps and have fun...

Hope the hospital thing isn't serious btw!


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## Ciochi (Jun 10, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> You bet!! VI-C's a great place with a lot of great people. Hope it helps and have fun...
> 
> Hope the hospital thing isn't serious btw!


Unfortunately it is, and it regards our 3y kid. Music is my only anchor to mental health.


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## jcrosby (Jun 10, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> Unfortunately it is, and it regards our 3y kid. Music is my only anchor to mental health.


Wow so sorry to hear! Really hope everything works out ok!!


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## Loïc D (Jun 10, 2021)

I’ve been listening to your tracks and I’d say that you’re not as far to your goal as you may think.
I listened purposely on my phone speaker because it’s a good test for trailer music.
Your Appolo track is closest to trailer music archetype.
It only lacks two components:
- A lot more of background synth/pulse etc. Background movement.
- A very squished / aggressive sound.

IIRC, Alex Pfeffer has online videos where he breaks down some of his tracks.
He’s got heaps of synths swarming in the background and a crazy mastering chain with several limiters/exciters chained.


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## Ciochi (Jun 10, 2021)

Loïc D said:


> I’ve been listening to your tracks and I’d say that you’re not as far to your goal as you may think.
> I listened purposely on my phone speaker because it’s a good test for trailer music.
> Your Appolo track is closest to trailer music archetype.
> It only lacks two components:
> ...


Thanks for your inputs. I will try layering. I have no fear in squashing, I come from dnb music which averages 4 lufs :D


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## darcvision (Jun 10, 2021)

evenant has a great course especially for trailer music stuff


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## cet34f (Jun 10, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> I really like trailer music, but I always struggle on chord progressions. Not that I can't make any, I do, but I end up having something sad, dramatic, but not epic.


There are lot of good suggestions that are more crucial for making trailer music. What I about to say is just for curiosity and not as important.

I was curious about why you feel your progression is sad and noticed that you used a lot of inversions with long reverb tail.

This is definitely not good if you want to pursuit epicness. In trailer music, epicness usually comes from harmonic simplicity. An inversion always creates more complex harmonic series, not to mention adding a long reverb tail.

Take Apollo 11 as an example: at 0:06, when your bass note moves from Ab to B natural, the Ab's reverb tail is still there and creates a diminish triad with D in the melody.

Your choices for chord position are not always reasonable, either. The bass note B at 0:06 creates a augmented 2nd in the bass line. The bass note F at 0:15 creates a hidden consecutive fifth with C in the melody.

I know trailer music is about epicness, timbre and stuff, but the musicality will deeply affect them, too. You can hear the music darkens at 0:06 and 0:15 prominently.

I hope my theory can explain the sadness you feel.


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## Ciochi (Jun 11, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> This is exactly what it sounds like. That said this is often where you start to establish some of the things to expect in the backend. As I mentioned in a previous post the current trend is for the intro and build to stick to the tonic; harmony is most often left for the backend. It isn't a requirement by any means though, it's just what's trendy in the past year-ish. Most, if not all of the examples below use harmony throughout.


what do you mean with "stick with the tonic"? The tonic is a note on a scale, how could you stick to one note?


jcrosby said:


> It feels like it's trying to end at 1:36, but then the pattern starts again. Basically: Climbing up to a high note signals an ending. So basically this defeats the goal of it feeling like it's moving toward an ending that's the peak of intensity. It has kind of an anticlimactic effect. Like a melody, notes that lead into one another are more effective. As the saying goes, simplest is best...


okay, I get this. Going up is not to be stopped or repeated if end isn't reached. This is something I completely fail at: I alway structure my backend (why backend?) in two parts, identical in harmony, but in the second I always add choirs and much more instruments. I guess those derive from dnb drops' structure, where it has some repetitions with variation of the same motif.
As a solution, I could cut all first part and go with just 1:36 and on, right?


jcrosby said:


> It also needs more layers. It needs some kind of high ostinato to drive it along, the stabs alone make it feel more like a breakdown or like you're in a state of waiting for an ending to drop any second. You can't go wrong with a fast but simple high ostinato, distorted synths/bramms layered in adding some it some grit, a low or mid pulse adding the impression that the backend's really cruising along... Basically a backend tends to have lots of layers and lots of motion; motion that feels like it's propelling the track forward toward a climactic end.


There are a couple of layers of braams, along with strings ostinatos and sub pulse. I guess all get lost in the mix under the overwhelming horns.


jcrosby said:


> Examples below. Pay attention specifically to the brass and strings... The lyrical/bold/heroic french horn line isn't something you hear much of these days. (Something I hear in a lot of the 'epic' music people post). Same with choir... Choir's used more as a means to emphasize the harmony and fill out the mix, but unlike 6-7 years ago it doesn't dominate the track at all... Brass often tends to be the backbone of the harmony. Or like in the example above (redshift), and the example below (Infinity War), the line is minimal, often consisting of as few notes as possible. Both of these tracks are fantastic examples of how tense this approach can be vs taking a melodic approach.


I guess I'm not updated to latest trend on trailer music. I have to say that is not easy to find a reference on my own: I didn't know of audiomachine until you mentioned! I used to look for epic music mix on YT, but most of it are of shit quality.


jcrosby said:


> Finally notice how the 'stabs' (basically what Appollo's backend consists of) are used to close the backend, not as the basis for the 'backend')


I don't get what the stabs are, really. You mean the marcatos? The hits?
Anyway, thanks again for the inputs. I really appreciate it. I listened to those tracks and they are amazing. I will use them as references against mines.


cet34f said:


> There are lot of good suggestions that are more crucial for making trailer music. What I about to say is just for curiosity and not as important.
> 
> I was curious about why you feel your progression is sad and noticed that you used a lot of inversions with long reverb tail.
> 
> ...


You now have to telle me how you managed to get each note by ear. I'm completely blown out by this. I have no ear for anything. If I'm in front of a piano, I go randomly touching each key until I found one in key and then reconstruct it. Most of the time I want to know a chord progression, I use tools for that.
Anyway, to answer you, I used inversion to minimize leaps. I use very little reverb if nothing at all outside the libraries own, so I never ever thought of it like that. I never really neither thought that a reverb tail could go and make another chord, but, boy, that makes sense!
I'll play close attention to all of this in the future. 
How to avoid those tails to overlap? Those piano is from Noire, not that I can sidechain the verb to itself.
FYI, this is the piano midi:


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## cet34f (Jun 11, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> Anyway, to answer you, I used inversion to minimize leaps.


To minimize leaps means to use more inversions, which cause more complex harmonic series. That's why trailer music tends to use root position and inevitably cause more leaps. Leaps are good in this context.



Ciochi said:


> I use very little reverb if nothing at all outside the libraries own


Just a thought: it could be a CC64 issue.



> How to avoid those tails to overlap?


It's usually not a huge issue when using root positions, because their relationships are simple by natural, but if needed, you can EQ the reverb to get rid of some unwanted harmonics at low frequency.


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## jcrosby (Jun 12, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> what do you mean with "stick with the tonic"? The tonic is a note on a scale, how could you stick to one note?


I'm not saying drone on a single note, but intros tend to be sparse and uncomplicated because the intro is there for the purpose of letting the dialogue take focus. Watch any well cut trailer and it's presented like a story, where often a few key pieces of dialogue are used in the beginning as a way to condense the story into just 2-3 mins. One way of musically 'uncomplicating' things is either focus on the tonic. Another way is to reduce the 'progression' to focus around two of the key chords that preserve the vibe...

If you centered things around the tonic that doesn't _mean_ that you wouldn't add additional notes. Some intros or builds for example might tease elements from the backend, but use the tonic as essentially a pedal note. Some tease elements from the backend but simplify the progression.

It's also useful to learn how to build tension using other techniques... Dynamics growing over time, editing techniques used in trailers like builds/gaps/hard cuts, introducing FX that create non-harmonic tension like risers/reverses...

You can still have a build with more harmonic complexity though... The main thing is to keep in mind that the goal is to steadily build anticipation so the backend has as much impact as possible the moment it hits. Stripping things back beforehand is an effective way to achieve that..

Here's a good example of a trailer where the tension in the intro and build focus mainly around the tonic. Only when you hit the 2 minute mark do you hear the full harmony of the backend. (Also notice how sparse the intro is)...





And here's another. This one's really sneaky because there's a strongly defined harmony, but if you listen carefully the sub hangs on the tonic all the way through the build to 1:20. It does an amazing job of giving the backend at 1:23 even more impact. I'd argue it makes it feel even more 'epic' because you're itching for the tension created by using the tonic as a pedal note to be resolved.





This is a great trailer btw. It's also a solid example of why a successful trailer track is structured the way it is.

The sparse, moody intro makes space for the dialogue and does a great job of supporting it.
The section at :34 demonstrates an interlude (sometimes called a midsection) perfectly. It isn't something you find in every trailer track, but shows why libraries that request or prefer them do... It gives the editor options for how they might break the arrangement up to better fit the trailer.

As I mentioned above, by hanging on the tonic in the buildup to 1:23, the backend winds up having incredible impact.

The climax of the backend (1:44-1:51) leaves you 'suspended' for a couple of reasons. 1. It ends with harmony that's deliberately left unresolved. 2. It adds an additional bar which increases the tension by subconsciously manipulating your expectation for it to end a bar earlier.

They tease the intro again at 1:53. (A pretty common way to end a trailer track). It adds to the impression that the music tells a story... 'The end is the beginning again', etc.


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## jcrosby (Jun 12, 2021)

Ciochi said:


> okay, I get this. Going up is not to be stopped or repeated if end isn't reached. This is something I completely fail at: I alway structure my backend (why backend?) in two parts, identical in harmony, but in the second I always add choirs and much more instruments. I guess those derive from dnb drops' structure, where it has some repetitions with variation of the same motif.
> As a solution, I could cut all first part and go with just 1:36 and on, right?


It's simpler than that. Ideally you want to climb toward the highest notes as that section progresses. Climbing conveys a sense that things are escalating and intensifying.

Also you end the phrase with the tonic which basically makes the pattern feel a bit anticlimactic. The rhythmic pattern you use combined with the octave added at the end of the phrase are typical of an ending. So basically when the phrase starts again it feels a bit unnatural because the phrase has an 'ending' of sorts baked into it...

('Backend' is the term used for the climax of a trailer track).


Ciochi said:


> There are a couple of layers of braams, along with strings ostinatos and sub pulse. I guess all get lost in the mix under the overwhelming horns.


They're definitely buried. It seems like it's more of any issue of them not being loud enough. Pulses especially need to really drive this section. There's probably quite a bit of masking going on as well.

I can sort of make out an ostinato in 2nd half when I listen again but it's buried by everything else, and hard to define what the pattern is. Listen to the audiomachine tracks I linked... Your ostinato should cut through like theirs do in this section.

Braams don't need to be huge necessarily, it depends on what you're going for... You should at least be able to distinguish them from any brass happening in a higher register. 


Ciochi said:


> I guess I'm not updated to latest trend on trailer music. I have to say that is not easy to find a reference on my own: I didn't know of audiomachine until you mentioned! I used to look for epic music mix on YT, but most of it are of shit quality.


Audiomachine's a great starting place. They have tons of music you can listen to on their site. They also have a few albums for sale, I bought all of them becuase they're great references... If you want to reference a wider variety check out Trailer Music Weekly:



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZSuaz-H_XnUNeDUbyzQivA/videos




Ciochi said:


> I don't get what the stabs are, really. You mean the marcatos? The hits?
> Anyway, thanks again for the inputs. I really appreciate it. I listened to those tracks and they are amazing. I will use them as references against mines.


Yes. Stabs is a non-technical term 


Ciochi said:


> You now have to telle me how you managed to get each note by ear. I'm completely blown out by this. I have no ear for anything. If I'm in front of a piano, I go randomly touching each key until I found one in key and then reconstruct it. Most of the time I want to know a chord progression, I use tools for that.


Honestly my theory isn't great either. I studied guitar as a teenager, had a terrible time learning how to sight read (dyslexia's my guess as to why it just never clicked with me...)

I always had a strong ear though. As long as I know what the root key is I can figure out most progressions in my head using relative pitch. (To a point). Once you start to get into extended chords beyond 7ths and 9ths I have to start with the underlying progression, and figure out the rest by tracing them on a keyboard.

Speaking of which.. While you definitely have some progress to make, you should also give yourself a pat on the back if you've done all of this with no _musical _background. That's ultimately how I learned a lot of stuff...


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## Ciochi (Jun 13, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> They're definitely buried. It seems like it's more of any issue of them not being loud enough. Pulses especially need to really drive this section. There's probably quite a bit of masking going on as well.
> 
> I can sort of make out an ostinato in 2nd half when I listen again but it's buried by everything else, and hard to define what the pattern is. Listen to the audiomachine tracks I linked... Your ostinato should cut through like theirs do in this section.


Yeah. I checked the project and there is nothing ostinato in the first half while there is in the second half but buried by the horns. I'm working on the project right now to implement you suggestion.


jcrosby said:


> Speaking of which.. While you definitely have some progress to make, you should also give yourself a pat on the back if you've done all of this with no _musical _background. That's ultimately how I learned a lot of stuff


Well I know something. I know the basis and in some past I've also studied the modes when I tried going jazz with guitar, but I definetely forgot most of it with time. 
Anyway, for trailer music, as for any genre, it's way more important to get the main points of the genre, as the cuts, backend etc as you mentioned thank a strong music theory behind.
I'll come back as soon as I have gone through changes.


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## onnomusic (Jun 15, 2021)

jcrosby said:


> I'm not saying drone on a single note, but intros tend to be sparse and uncomplicated because the intro is there for the purpose of letting the dialogue take focus. Watch any well cut trailer and it's presented like a story, where often a few key pieces of dialogue are used in the beginning as a way to condense the story into just 2-3 mins. One way of musically 'uncomplicating' things is either focus on the tonic. Another way is to reduce the 'progression' to focus around two of the key chords that preserve the vibe...
> 
> If you centered things around the tonic that doesn't _mean_ that you wouldn't add additional notes. Some intros or builds for example might tease elements from the backend, but use the tonic as essentially a pedal note. Some tease elements from the backend but simplify the progression.
> 
> ...



that shadow & bone trailer is great indeed... the whole album that came off is excellent


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## jcrosby (Jun 16, 2021)

onnomusic said:


> that shadow & bone trailer is great indeed... the whole album that came off is excellent



I was wondering who released this. This also a great! example of just how cut up and rearranged a track winds up being by the time it makes it into trailer... Also the synth sound is quite different in the S&B teaser... Sounds like they were asked to customize it...

Thanks for posting this...


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## Ciochi (Jun 29, 2021)

I made a new track while trying to adjust Apollo. What do you think? Mix could be better especially on backend.


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