# What percussion-modelling synthesizers would you recommend?



## Crowe (Nov 23, 2022)

I find myself in the market for a synthesizer more specifically geared towards all kinds of percussive sounds. I'm, of course, well aware every synth can do this, but I'm specifically looking for a synth with tools geared towards such design. *For example, the answer 'Zebra 2' is not what I'm looking for. Neither is FM8. Or Phase Plant. The list goes on.*

The catch is that I don't want anything that only utilizes built-in samples. Those are completely useless to me.

*As far as drum-specific synths go:*
At the moment, I only use Chipdrum, which targets 8-bit sounds respectively.

I also use tools like Punchbox and Trk-01 with my own samples.


*This topic is for VST's specifically geared towards percussion design. Please please please stop recommending general synths. We know you can use these for percussive synthesis. This is not what this topic is about.*


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## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2022)

AAS Chromaphone is not a drum synth, but its physical modeling engine does work rather nicely for woodblock-y and timpani-y type sounds. Which is why I dare to bring it up here, despite your clear set of criteria. I really like this synth for that type of artificial plasticky drum sounds.


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## richmwhitfield (Nov 23, 2022)

A few to have a look at -
DrumComputer - Sugar Bytes
Microtonic - Sonic Charge
Basimilus Iteratus - Noise Engineering


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## Crowe (Nov 23, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> AAS Chromaphone is not a drum synth, but its physical modeling engine does work rather nicely for woodblock-y and timpani-y type sounds. Which is why I dare to bring it up here, despite your clear set of criteria. I really like this synth for that type of artificial plasticky drum sounds.


I've been thinking about Chromaphone. It looks really interesting and as I understand it, it doesn't function like the Infinite Series in that it uses samples to get to its eventual sound.

Honestly, the idea of 'sound modeling' as a term simply confuses me in relation to legality of use. I have a hard rule that all sound I create must be able to be sold. Even if I never do. I just don't like lawyers I suppose.

Either way, I've contacted AAS support with an inquiry concerning the legality of using AAS as a commercial sound design tool.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2022)

Crowe said:


> Either way, I've contacted AAS support with an inquiry concerning the legality of using AAS as a commercial sound design tool.


Always a good idea and I know you take these things seriously.

I think Richard Devine is on record that he exclusively used an earlier iteration of Chromaphone to design UI sound elements for some (now likely abandoned, given their track record) Google VR platform. Which sounds hopeful in this context? I’ll look up the link, hold on.


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## Crowe (Nov 23, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Always a good idea and I know you take these things seriously.
> 
> I think Richard Devine is on record that he exclusively used an earlier iteration of Chromaphone to design UI sound elements for some (now likely abandoned, given their track record) Google VR platform. Which sounds hopeful in this context? I’ll look up the link, hold on.


Yes, I've been looking through the EULA and I'm *pretty* sure there is no issue. Which has me rather excited.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2022)

3:45 time mark ^

Chromaphone drums by @Sampleconstruct Simon Stockhausen (which reminds me I should maybe buy this soundset while on sale):





https://patchpool.net/Sounds/z_pdfs/Resonantia_Readme.pdf


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## timbit2006 (Nov 23, 2022)

Reaktor has some good and interesting physical modeling type percussion synths.


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## Crowe (Nov 23, 2022)

Other synths I've come across:

Hex Drum: Looks like Chipdrum but possibly less Chippy. Quite clearly based on old-school drum machines.

Audiothing Hats: Hihat synth based on noise and (user) samples. Cute. Not convinced it's worth the asking price, I have many tools that can do the same. But that does make me a bit of a hypocrite in this situation.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2022)

Vult Trummor is another good one by the way for kicks. I am a Voltage Modular user, so I have it in there, but no doubt there’s a VCV one as well.






Vult Trummor2 | Cherry Audio Store


Trummor 2 is a powerhouse of drum sounds. FM drums, metalic claps, analog-style kicks, all sorts of resonated karplus-strong style strings, blips and blops. A do-it-all module. Controls description Trummor 2 is split into two main sections: the oscillator section and the noise section. Trummor 2...




store.cherryaudio.com


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## gamma-ut (Nov 23, 2022)

Crowe said:


> Neither is FM8.



Why not?

What are you actually looking for in a drum synth? Do you want something that does classic drum sounds – for which Rob Papen's Punch2 isn't a bad option as it has most of the standard models? Or something that makes percussive stuff a la Kraftwerk? Both? Neither?

Because FM8 is pretty well set up for percussion in two areas (or maybe better to use F'em in this day and age). One: FM for crunch, with parallel oscillators for attack, body, tail etc. Two: highly configurable envelopes, which can be used to do talking-drum effects with a bit of external-CC pitch control and maybe crossfade on one or two of the oscillators.

For similar reasons, Absynth isn't a bad choice either with the resonators slapped on the end, though not exactly a futureproof option.


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## Crowe (Nov 23, 2022)

gamma-ut said:


> Why not?
> 
> What are you actually looking for in a drum synth? Do you want something that does classic drum sounds – for which Rob Papen's Punch2 isn't a bad option as it has most of the standard models? Or something that makes percussive stuff a la Kraftwerk? Both? Neither?
> 
> ...


I already have and use all of those (short of Punch2) for drum synthesis. I am looking for a different workflow and therefore different inspiration.

Why not? Because I explicitly asked for other things XD. I am not looking for anything in particular, other than synths specifically geared towards percussion.

That said, yeah, Absynth is able to make some pretty sweet percussive strangeness.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 23, 2022)

Crowe said:


> Yes, I've been looking through the EULA and I'm *pretty* sure there is no issue. Which has me rather excited.


I believe that you will get the answer you want. I can't remember who, but not long ago someone else checked and told me that AAS are fine with people using their software to create sounds that are then used in isolation commercially as well as part of a composition or integrated piece of sound design.

So, I can't confirm that myself; but that's the answer I expect you'll get.


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## gamma-ut (Nov 23, 2022)

Crowe said:


> I already have and use all of those (short of Punch2) for drum synthesis. I am looking for a different workflow and therefore different inspiration.
> 
> Why not? Because I explicitly asked for other things XD.



Sorry, not a mindreader: 



> At the moment, I only use Chipdrum, which targets 8-bit sounds respectively.
> 
> I also use tools like Punchbox and Trk-01 with my own samples.


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## Crowe (Nov 23, 2022)

gamma-ut said:


> Sorry, not a mindreader:


Changed the post for clarity.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 23, 2022)

While Falcon is not dedicated to drum sounds, it has some presets in its modules (e.g. compressor setting) that are focused on percussion. It also has drum sequencers.

I have been using Steinberg's Backbone. It has built-in samples, but is ideal for dropping in your own samples and shaping them into new sounds. It is especially designed for percussion; but it has no sequencer of its own. It does include resynthesis, filtering, stretching, tempo change, and all sorts plus a range of effects: compression, EQ, reverb, distortion. I can't remember which section it is in, but I'm sure it has bitcrushing amongst these options.

It can create sounds that you then sample out to use elsewhere; but for percussion I have been using it directly (multiple tracks, each with different sounds), as it can then vary some parameters to create the effect of round robins.


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## KEM (Nov 23, 2022)

PunchBox by D16 is great


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## Crowe (Nov 23, 2022)

KEM said:


> PunchBox by D16 is great


Yes, that's one of the ones I use. Pretty sample dependent, however. Short of the old-school engines.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 23, 2022)

Oh, and of course, Melda and UVI both have dedicated drum designer software. But I don't know anything about those.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2022)

They are highly dependent on samples, so we have to rule those out in the context of the query.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 23, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> They are highly dependent on samples, so we have to rule those out in the context of the query.


Only total reliance on built-in samples was ruled out. Can they not import samples?


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## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Only total reliance on built-in samples was ruled out. Can they not import samples?


UVI Drum Designer can’t IIRC.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 23, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> UVI Drum Designer can’t IIRC.


That's not too great. I wonder if you can get around it in Falcon. Anyway, I'm sure @Crowe isn't looking to buy Falcon let along Drum Designer too! Though Falcon is great for building percussion and has a lot of great noise types as starting points.


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## LAJ (Nov 23, 2022)

XILSlab - STIX (the best Drum/Perc-synth)


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## Crowe (Nov 23, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> That's not too great. I wonder if you can get around it in Falcon. Anyway, I'm sure @Crowe isn't looking to buy Falcon let along Drum Designer too! Though Falcon is great for building percussion and has a lot of great noise types as starting points.


I am, in fact, looking to buy Falcon... at some point. It'll happen, just not today. I got Pigments a few days ago and I would probably have to punch myself if I got Falcon right after. I'm not that masochistic so it's a pass for now.
I've looked into MDrummer and it looks like, while it has some synthesis options, it is in fact very dependent on samples. I'm better off sticking with Maschine or Battery in that case.

Thanks for playing miss Bee!


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## José Herring (Nov 23, 2022)

The best one of these I ever used was Micro Tonic by sonic charge.


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## Crowe (Nov 23, 2022)

LAJ said:


> XILSlab - STIX (the best Drum/Perc-synth)


I just stumbled across that one. STIX looks very promising!


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## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2022)

Crowe said:


> I just stumbled across that one. STIX looks very promising!


FWIW, I bought into the Xils Lab ecosystem lately (very recently actually). Of course the FM synth Kaox was the culprit!

But boy, Xavier sure makes his DSP code sing! Stunning sound quality. It may be just “the honeymoon” but I am inclined to say PolyKB III is rapidly becoming my favourite ever software synth (in the emulation realm that is). I got the PolyM model as well, and the 4. And they all sound VERY good as well to my ears. Which is of course a very subjective matter. So in terms of sonic quality I would be confident STIX can deliver, strictly adacemically speaking as I’ve never had any exposure on it.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 23, 2022)

Crowe said:


> I am, in fact, looking to buy Falcon... at some point. It'll happen, just not today. I got Pigments a few days ago and I would probably have to punch myself if I got Falcon right after. I'm not that masochistic so it's a pass for now.
> I've looked into MDrummer and it looks like, while it has some synthesis options, it is in fact very dependent on samples. I'm better off sticking with Maschine or Battery in that case.
> 
> Thanks for playing miss Bee!


Well, Pigments has a second noise engine now.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 23, 2022)

José Herring said:


> The best one of these I ever used was Micro Tonic by sonic charge.


It's a bit of a standard for drum synthesis for a couple of years now.


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## oeholmen (Nov 23, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> They are highly dependent on samples, so we have to rule those out in the context of the query.


Perhaps, but Falcon does have a dedicated drum oscillator


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## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2022)

oeholmen said:


> Perhaps, but Falcon does have a dedicated drum oscillator


Fully aware. But I didn't say anything about Falcon not being a feasible option, did I? I merely checked the clear parameters given by Crowe 

Proceed.


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## oeholmen (Nov 23, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Fully aware. But I didn't say anything about Falcon not being a feasible option, did I?


Guess not. Sorry.


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## Crowe (Nov 23, 2022)

Options for Roland emulations can be found in D16's line of Drum Machines. I've had Drumazon for a while and find the insistence on the original 909 workflow to be unwieldy at best, but it *does* sound spot on.

606 - Nithonat
808 - Nepheton
909 - Drumazon


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## Pier (Nov 23, 2022)

Maybe this collection of synthesized drum sounds for Live will interest you.









Designer Drums


Designer Drums is a set of synthesized drums that demonstrate the versatility of Ableton Live 9's instruments and effects.




www.ableton.com


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## Whywhy (Nov 23, 2022)

If you like to spend time crafting your own percusion sound, I would go for Zebra legacy, Hive2, Cypher2 or MSF.


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## Crowe (Nov 23, 2022)

Whywhy said:


> If you like to spend time crafting your own percusion sound, I would go for Zebra legacy, Hive2, Cypher2 or MSF.


That's already how I spend my time and explicitly not what is asked for.

This topic is for recommendations on VST's *specifically geared towards percussive synthesis.*

I thank you for trying.


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## lychee (Nov 24, 2022)

As suggested by doctoremmet, my synth hit for percussions goes to Chromaphone and MSoundFactory.
I like the phylosophy of Chromaphone which instead of offering us the classic sawtooth, square, synusoidal waves... makes us start directly from "acoustic" materials to be transformed at will.
MSoudFactoy is more classic in its approach, the interface is confusing at first, but once learned it allows you to do things quickly and powerfully:





Here is a drum kit that I entirely created under Chromaphone:

View attachment Chroma Drum.mp3


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## Crowe (Nov 24, 2022)

I've received reply from AAS and as mentioned, commercial sound design is allowed. Which means I'm gonna have them take my money.

EDIT: This is not standard for 'physical modeling' vsts. SWAM, for example, does not allow any such use.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 24, 2022)

Crowe said:


> I've received reply from AAS and as mentioned, commercial sound design is allowed. Which means I'm gonna have them take my money.
> 
> EDIT: This is not standard for 'physical modeling' vsts. SWAM, for example, does not allow any such use.


That's right, it's a really nice change. Other physical modelling companies that don't allow this are Physical Modelling and Expressive E. I think that the physical modelling synth has to have a pretty broad range of sonic possibilities before they allows that; otherwise sampled versions of the physically modelled instruments could be seen as constituting financial competition.


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## Kel (Nov 25, 2022)

Hi!
I synthesized typical drum sounds out of Zebra 2 in my last bank. For example I got hi-hats, crash cymbals, Gongs, Timpani, Taikos, Drums and snares. If you want the more synthy type and not realistic it's even easier.

I think Zebra2 or FM8 are able to do it and you don't need Physical modelling at all for the standard drum synth sound.


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## Crowe (Nov 25, 2022)

This is starting to become enormously frustrating.

Please stay on topic. The topic is "percussion-specific synthesizers", not "general synthesizers that can be used to make percussion, in other words all of them".

EDIT:
In other new, I went for Chromaphone 3 for the foreseeable future. It's capabilities in pitched percussion synthesis are very promising to my current project.

Thank you for the recommendations! 💕

As this topic is of long-standing interest to me I'll keep updating it with any new information on Percussion-synths I come across.


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## ummon (Nov 25, 2022)

There is Waldorf Attack if you like oldschool and legacy stuff. It still rocks but hasn't got any updates in ages (and probably won't).


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## Crowe (Nov 25, 2022)

Ohhh, and it looks to be free too. Very cool!

https://waldorfmusic.com/en/archive/attack/attack-downloads/category/169-PC (Waldorf Attack)


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## ummon (Nov 25, 2022)

Really? That's great! It used to be a part of Waldorf collection (with excellent PPG). I think that collection is still worth of its price (30-50€)


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## tressie5 (Nov 25, 2022)

Steinberg's Backbone 1.5 lets you craft kicks, snares, high hats and any combination of those to create your own percussive sounds. That's the good news.

The bad news? While you can make your own sounds, you have to export the sounds into your daw to sequence them. You can't play Backbone like it was, say, DrumComputer which, now that I think about it, is prolly one of the most full-featured percussion makers around as it also has a sequencer.


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## Crowe (Nov 25, 2022)

In Ear Display Ephemere - Glitch Percussion Synthesizer
Price: ~$60
Looks very nice and promising. Sadly it seems you can only pay with credit card, so that's not going to happen.


Audio Damage Tattoo - 12 voice drum machine
Price: Free!
One of their first instruments. I completely forgot this existed. Gonna try making something cool with this.


Excite Snare
Price: Free!
Apparently a Physical Modeling Snare Synth. Have not tried this yet.


Reaktor - CloneTonic
Price: Free!
Reaktor clone of MicroTonic.


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## jsaras (Nov 25, 2022)

IK MODO Drum?


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## Pier (Nov 25, 2022)

Not sure if it has been mentioned but VCV Rack has tons of drum dedicated modules.

This is VCV Drums but there a lot more.


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## b_elliott (Nov 25, 2022)

I read thru the thread hoping Crowe was looking for these kind of sounds: Harry Parch percussion. Unfortunately, nope.

The percussion I hear in the Zebra2, Stixman, Falcon sound too electronic by comparison. 

Closest match seems to be AAS Chromophone3. 

PM synths unheard as yet by myself: Madrona Labs and Plasmonic (mentioned in this Music Radar article.)

I am curious if OP has examined those options; and, if so, could you give me your assessment if any of these PM synths are up to handling H. Parch material.

Note: Ignore if this distracts from thread.
Best, Bill


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 25, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> I read thru the thread hoping Crowe was looking for these kind of sounds: Harry Parch percussion. Unfortunately, nope.
> 
> The percussion I hear in the Zebra2, Stixman, Falcon sound too electronic by comparison.
> 
> ...


True. Backbone can be used to work with acoustic samples, as of course can Falcon. And Falcon has the sequencers too. But the real joy of that sort of percussion is all the little accidental variations of live playing.


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## Crowe (Nov 25, 2022)

b_elliott said:


> I read thru the thread hoping Crowe was looking for these kind of sounds: Harry Parch percussion. Unfortunately, nope.
> 
> The percussion I hear in the Zebra2, Stixman, Falcon sound too electronic by comparison.
> 
> ...



Hiya Bill, seems like you have a vested interest in the topic. I have no particular 'goal' in mind as far as sound is concerned, I am merely looking for percussion synthesizers, modelled or otherwise.

I have not yet tried either of those PM synths and considering I've just bought Chromaphone I have no real plans to, but maybe someone else can chime in? Are these percussive synths, or do they model a wider array of things?


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## b_elliott (Nov 25, 2022)

Crowe said:


> Hiya Bill, seems like you have a vested interest in the topic. I have no particular 'goal' in mind as far as sound is concerned, I am merely looking for percussion synthesizers, modelled or otherwise.
> 
> I have not yet tried either of those PM synths and considering I've just bought Chromaphone I have no real plans to, but maybe someone else can chime in? Are these percussive synths, or do they model a wider array of things?


Thanks Crowe. The PM synths mentioned in the M_Radar article span more than just perc sounds. 

I meanwhile got onto a video explaining Backbone 1.5 mentioned above but using AI tech with the DrumGAN...
I am in the dark ages still on what's available, but this thread is unearthing great stuff -- most of it unknown by myself. 
Thanks for the thread!


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## b_elliott (Nov 25, 2022)

jsaras said:


> IK MODO Drum?


I have it and it simulates via PM what a drummer gets out of a drum as he hits random areas of the drum head (I.E., a different snare sound near the rim compared to off center hits.) 
Modo drum though good won't get you Antonio Sanchez trickery tho:


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