# How many minutes a day - fully orchestrated



## Rob Elliott (Aug 11, 2006)

I have a current film (60 min - direct to DVD Children's film) that has a ludricrous schedule (production delays, etc.)

I feel on my head when I was in the crib as a child and told them - no problem. :roll: 

The question is what are you guys cranking out fully orchestrated per 8-10 hour day?


Maybe I am too much of a perfectionist but to date I haven't seem to be able to write more than the following:


Romantic / Comedy / Dramatic 2 min-2.5 min /day
Action / Acventure 1.5 - 2.5 min/day


Seems like most of my time (outside of getting the themes and feel just right) is tweaking the blasted sampled strings. I have many different strings options but they are all the same - need a lot of programming to get to sound good.

As I think this through - maybe I just haven't had these kind of crazy schedules before, becuase this is a 'higher profile' demanding project with a Director breathing down my neck :shock: - I have been able to get to 3.5 on this dramatic film (I really need to be at 4 min/day to meet the schedule.

I would appreciate what you guys think is typical (again for us guys who write, arrange, orchestrated - not including final mix and mastering). Don't have the luxury of throwing this to an orchestrator on these 'direct to DVD' hour long films.

And in addition to a solid template (which I have spent a lot of time on and really has helped), what increases your workflow and efficiency.

Please don't ask me to stop 'staring' out the window dreaming of kicking back on the beach - that helps me - it really does :wink: 


Rob


Rob


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## Dr.Quest (Aug 11, 2006)

What you are doing sounds like great speed. The only faster one I've heard of is Howard Shore on the last LoTR was doing 6 minutes a day.
I'm lucky if I get 1 to 1.5 minutes a day.
J


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## Rob Elliott (Aug 11, 2006)

J - on the 'star wars' - epic action adventure - honestly I have fits with - pulling off and the numbers I stated for that genre are optimistic. :cry: 

Many days - less than that.


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## midphase (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm sure Howard Shore has a pretty substantial support staff which allows him to rough out sketches pretty easily and let his programmers and orchestrators do the rest. Hell...if I had about 10 guys who take care of me while I work I'd probably be able to crank out 8 minutes/day.

I think for a self-sufficient-multiple-hat-wearing-composer-mixer-programmer-etc. 2 minutes a day is plenty! Sometimes I've had to do 3 but I see the quality falling rapidly and the music starts to get repetitious as I look for shortcuts by using copy and paste and have less time to formulate good ideas.

I always tell my clients to chill out on the schedule unless they have a very important reason to deliver something by a certain date (film festival deadline, distributor contractual obligation, etc). I calmly explain to them that an unreasonable schedule will result in lower quality music. They generally agree and 9 times out of 10 they tell me to take my time (reasonably of course) and to do it right rather than rush it.


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## jeffc (Aug 11, 2006)

I think you'd be surprised what you are capable of when the pressure is really on. You will feel desperate looking at the list of music you neòv|   Bxv|   Bxžv|   BxŸv|   Bx v|   Bx¡v|   Bx¢v|   Bx£v|   Bx¤v|   Bx¥v|   Bx¦v|   Bx§v|   Bx¨v|   Bx©v|   Bxªv|   Bx«v|   Bx¬v|   Bx­v|   Bx®v|   Bx¯v|   Bx°v|   Bx±v|   Bx²v|   Bx³v|   Bx´v|   Bxµv|   Bx¶v|   Bx·v|   Bx¸v|   Bx¹v|   Bxºv|   Bx»v|   Bx¼v|   Bx½v|   Bx¾v|   Bx¿v|   BxÀv|   BxÁv|   BxÂv|   BxÃv|   BxÄv|   BxÅv|   BxÆv|   BxÇv|   BxÈv|   BxÉv|   BxÊv|   BxËv|   BxÌv|   BxÍv}   BQv}   BQv}   BQv}   BQv}   BQv}   BQv}   BQv}   BQ	v}   BQ
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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 11, 2006)

My advice would be to keep things simple in terms of your arrangements. Of course, I'm not talking about the actions cues, but the other stuff. Often enough, piano, solo clarinet or acoustic guitar and strings can go a long way. As can ensemble pizz. Also, keep in mind that once you've gotten a bunch of themes approved, you can then use variations of them later in the film, meaning that your production will ramp up time-wise as you get further into the film.


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 11, 2006)

Folmann @ Fri Aug 11 said:


> Only valid solution model is collaborate with another composer(s), IMHO.



I'm not busy :wink: 

But seriously- I don't think the director can ask anymore of you. The big guys can do 5 minutes a day or so since they are usually just doing 6 bar sketches for the orchestrators to flesh out. Not only are you Orchestrating but mocking up as well! 

Just look for areas where you can revamp entire cues-Use King Kong as an example. For the End sequence James revamps cues (with some performance and orchestration changes) that he used in the beginning. So maybe for the finale of the film you can import a sequence, mess with the tempo, add/remove sections and you'll have 5 minutes done in maybe half a day. ( or vice versa write the finale and find areas to import those sequences to in the film with some changes)

Knowing you Rob I think you will pull through just fine. Good Luck!


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## José Herring (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm with Ned on this one. Unless you want to hire help[schild=1 fontcolor=006400 shadowcolor=C0C0C0 shieldshadow=1]Will work for Rent[/schild]


Personally on most projects when I have to do everything I just spot the entire movie. Make timing notes and then say, "okay, these are the 6 main cues. These will be fully orchestrated." Then I split out the rest and break out the piano, harp, string orchesta. Perhaps I'll do a ww overdub or two but that's it.

By limiting your pallet and setting up a template 20 minutes of music can be done in a day. I heard that Giaccinno does Lost in 2 days. He limits his palet to perc, strings and t-bone. Pretty smart imo.

I know guys that do this even on big films. 

José


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## lux (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm not such an expert, but i would say on a 60' long movie you will probably have max 4-5 main thematic motives goin on. I think after a while you'll begin reusing some solutions in the orchestration, also to keep consistence and coherence along the movie musically. So, as mentioned, once you got the right template you probably will begin placing more minutes per day, 'cause you have themes and you've chosen the overall setting in terms of orchestration choices.

Luca


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## choc0thrax (Aug 11, 2006)

josejherring @ Fri Aug 11 said:


> I'm with Ned on this one. Unless you want to hire help[schild=1 fontcolor=006400 shadowcolor=C0C0C0 shieldshadow=1]Will work for Rent[/schild]
> 
> 
> Personally on most projects when I have to do everything I just spot the entire movie. Make timing notes and then say, "okay, these are the 6 main cues. These will be fully orchestrated." Then I split out the rest and break out the piano, harp, string orchesta. Perhaps I'll do a ww overdub or two but that's it.
> ...



Giacchino writes about 20 minutes a day? Although I wouldn't be surprised after listening to the score. (I do like the music in Lost though). Jose, how do you have any time for music? You must spend at least half the day on VI.


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## Rob Elliott (Aug 11, 2006)

Thanks Guys. I really appreciate the advice!!


Rob


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## Frederick Russ (Aug 11, 2006)

Rob Elliott @ Fri Aug 11 said:


> Please don't ask me to stop 'staring' out the window dreaming of kicking back on the beach - that helps me - it really does :wink:



Rob, I think you need to stop staring out the window dreaming of kicking back on the beach 

2 minutes max per day is reasonable for a good mockup. After more than that I've noticed a drastic drop in quality control.


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## José Herring (Aug 11, 2006)

choc0thrax @ Fri Aug 11 said:


> Jose, how do you have any time for music? You must spend at least half the day on VI.



Time is an illusion. Once you know what the illusion of time is it's easier to control. :wink: Actually I'll give you a hint. The more you do the more time you have. Most people think that they have to conserve time. That's the trap. Truth is...there is no time. Time is just a measurement of the rate of change of objects through space. So the more particles you move the more time you have. The more task you can complete the more time you have.

In the year that I've been on VI I've completed about 6 projects and I've written about 3.5 hours worth of music. I modernized my computer music studio from the Mac G3 I was using last year and have learned from scratch how to use most of it. I have a wife and a kid and I volunteer at a church 15 hours a week.

Also I don't do things to waist time like play video games, watch tv or go to the movies. Two hours of sitting still is the death of time. I can't do it.

Last lesson about time. Do everything fast. I just keep my internet computer on while I write music and scan the board about 3 times an hour. I never know when one of the many brilliant people on this board are going to post something that will save my ass.

Jose


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 11, 2006)

Same with Fred, 2 minutes more or less. Lots of copy pasting, transposing, inverting and retrogading can give you some extra time as well. Doesn't help a lot when the music is changing all the time though,


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## Daryl (Aug 12, 2006)

There are two different questions here.

I can do around 4 minutes orchestrated mock-up stuff a day with a fairly basic programming; all instruments, but not much tweaking, and anything up to around 9 or 10 minutes for orchestral stuff, if I don't have to do a mock-up as well. If I have to do both, then this can go down to around 2½ to 3 minutes a day.

Of course, it also depends how long the day is.......... :mrgreen: 

D


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## Scott Cairns (Aug 12, 2006)

josejherring @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> Also I don't do things to waist time like play video games, watch tv or go to the movies.



Hey, I count that as research!


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## Scott Cairns (Aug 12, 2006)

jeffc @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> I find that not looking too many days ahead and just making the goal for the day at hand keeps the anxiety down.



Thats good advice. When we were writing for Stargate (computer game) ID often get freaked at the sheer amount of music required in the time given.


Its better to assign small goals, get the head down and get into it!


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## Christian Marcussen (Aug 12, 2006)

Rob - that is very good speed...

I only do half that...


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## Ashermusic (Aug 12, 2006)

Every score is different for me but as a general rule, 1st week, 1-2 minutes. After that gradually increasing as I usually do the larger cues first so up to 5 minutes per day at the end.


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## Waywyn (Aug 12, 2006)

Scott Cairns @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> josejherring @ Sat Aug 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Also I don't do things to waist time like play video games, watch tv or go to the movies.
> ...



Hehe, good point dude 
Well, but seriously. If i would just do during my day what's important or what i have to do, i would instantly die like a little spider on a too hot day which can't find a way to a shadow place.

sometimes i sit there and think, damn, during my spare time you just played that fu**ing game, or, hell you watched movies during the last three days after work, or even better .... wow, i was out with the bike today for 3 hours and now ???

i personally believe and i think it is just a simple fact that your soul/brain/mind whatever lives in your head, needs something to shut down.

and if i play video games for a whole day it is kind of the same relaxation to my musical side of the brain like i would sit outside in the park or garden. you just forget what you work ... and that's the main point.

with absolutely no offense, but who thinks that playing games, watching movies, tv or doing other multimedia stuff for fun and enjoying is a waste of time, could also say it is a waste of time to read books, meet people or have hobby xxx (no, i didn't mean watching pornos )

*everything can hurt but nothing*, if the dosis is right! (except for hard drugs, i wanna say. e.g. there is no apology for taking heroin or so)

@rob:

yes, time might be an illusion but we still have to use it as an orientation because this is the only meter we have for getting stuff done etc.

i think it would help a lot to not browse forums during working time, phoning longer than necessary, leave out small talk and let people definitely know when you don't have time and getting your work scheduled!


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## midphase (Aug 12, 2006)

> Also I don't do things to waist time like play video games, watch tv or go to the movies.



Ok, I have to take issue with that one! You could have put it differently, but by saying waste (or waist) you're passing judgement on something that I think is an ejoyable past time, a way to keep current, and a necessity for work!

You may have kids and church to "waste" your time on...but I love to head to the Arclight to submerge myself in a delicious 2 hours of alternate reality away from this crappy world that we live in. Same goes with games or some TV. As long as your life doesn't become ruled by a particular thing, all is good!

It also helps that when a client references a particular film soundtrack or TV music, I know what the hell he's talking about.


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## José Herring (Aug 12, 2006)

So true Alex P.

Actually I should mention that total I usually don't spend more than 45 minutes a day on the forum. I just visit for 5 min then leave come back then leave, ect.

Also, I don't experience much mental fatigue anymore so I do a lot of "reasearch" between the hours of 11pm and 1 or 2am.
 
And, I never carefully think about what I write so each post takes me about 1 to 2 minutes to complete.


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## PaulR (Aug 12, 2006)

Waywyn @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> Scott Cairns @ Sat Aug 12 said:
> 
> 
> > *everything can hurt but nothing*, if the dosis is right! (except for hard drugs, i wanna say. e.g. there is no apology for taking heroin or so)
> ...



The dosis? Hehehe! You realize I read this in a German accent right Alex?

What are you guys on about?

How many films and games do you generally watch a day?

You know what brought about the invention of time Alex?


:mrgreen:


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## José Herring (Aug 12, 2006)

midphase @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> > Also I don't do things to waist time like play video games, watch tv or go to the movies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



edit: Never mind. Best of luck to you.

José


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## midphase (Aug 12, 2006)

HE HE!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 12, 2006)

The true secret to greatness: re-use cues whenever possible.


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## Waywyn (Aug 12, 2006)

PaulR @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> The dosis? Hehehe! You realize I read this in a German accent right Alex?



ah i checked the word, wasn't it "dothith" ... that thoundth more englithh ... no? 



PaulR @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> How many films and games do you generally watch a day?
> 
> You know what brought about the invention of time Alex?



arg, sorry my english is leaving me also on the last sentence,

... but i think we, my "soon-wife"  and me, watch about 3 to 4 movies a week. then some tv, but not THAT much. i mostly watch documentaries and news. ... oh, and i love black&white movies.


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## midphase (Aug 12, 2006)

> The true secret to greatness: re-use cues whenever possible.



That is actually a valid point. Last year I was working on an insane project where I needed to score about 12 minutes of big orchestral cues in about 4 days (all mixed and ready for broadcast)....did I mention it had to be in 5.1 surround?

Well, about halfway through, I realised that I had enough material there to recycle some stuff or at least make some small changes but essentially re-use some of the main thematic portions which ended up saving me a bit of time and making the whole thing possible.

If there's one good thing to say about tight deadlines is probably that you're done quickly, you get paid more quickly, and there's lless time for the director to over-analyze stuff and ask for changes!

One last point (which I'm sure Mike will agree on)...you guys have no idea how many times I've had to bust my ass to deliver on some impossible deadline, only to find out later that once I delivered the tracks, they actually didn't get around to laying them in for days beyond when they told me they needed them by. This also happened to me as recently as yesterday. 

Trust me...the more you bust your ass for those bozos, the more they take you for granted and the less respect they have for you (generally....of course there are exceptions).

Ok....one more last point...I also follow Scotty's rule (from Star Trek....yeah....I know....) about over-estimating the time needed to procure something to the client. So if something might take me 3 days...I'll quote them a week....and so on. You have no idea how much this has saved my ass in the past when all of a sudden the phone rings with another great gig (and tight deadline) which I would normally have to pass on but that instead I'm able to do because I gave myself some extra breathing room.

Oh oh....if I don't shut up I'm letting all my tricks out of the bag! :shock:


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## PaulR (Aug 12, 2006)

Waywyn @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> i mostly watch documentaries and news. ... oh, and i love black&white movies.



I watched a new documentary this evening about New York - a subject I'm very interested in. It was colourful and the New Yorker who made it and commented all through the programme was genuine. Unfortunately he was also way too nostalgic and subjective.

And now if you'll excuse me - back to my Astronomy.

Good evening.


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## kid-surf (Aug 12, 2006)

Good points all......


Alex -- I read "dosis" with a German accent too. :D... Ah well, "dosis", "dothtih", "doses"... all means the same ffing.  I'm like you in that I have a life away from music. Hobbies I'm very serious about. Mainly surfing. (And i love reòwE   B‘wE   B’wE   B“wE   B”wE   B•wE   B–wE   B—wE   B˜wE   B™wE   BšwE   B›wE   BœwE   BwE   BžwE   BŸwE   B wE   B¡wE   B¢wE   B£wE   B¤wE   B¥wE   B¦wE   B§wE   B¨wE   B©wE   BªwE   B«wE   B¬wE   B­wE   B®wE   B¯wE   B°wE   B±wE   B²wE   B³wE   B´wE   BµwE   B¶wE   B·wE   B¸wE   B¹wE   BºwE   B»wE   B¼wE   B½wE   B¾wE   B¿wE   BÀwE   BÁwE   BÂwE   BÃwE   BÄwE   BÅwE   BÆwE   BÇwE   BÈwE   BÉwE   BÊwE   BËwE   BÌwE   BÍwE   BÎwE   BÏwE   BÐwE   BÑwE   BÒwE   BÓwE   BÔwE   BÕwE   BÖwE   B×wE   BØwE   BÙwE   BÚwE   BÛwE   BÜwE   BÝwE   BÞwE   BßwE   BàwE   BáwE   BâwE   BãwE   BäwE   BåwE   BæwE   BçwE   BèwE   BéwE   BêwE   BëwE   BìwE   BíwE   BîwE   BïwE   BðwE   BñwE   BòwE   BówE   BôwE   BõwE   BöwE   B÷wE   BøwE   BùwE   BúwE   BûwE   BüwE   BýwE   BþwE   BÿwE   B‚               òwE   B‚wE   B‚wE   B‚wE   B‚wE   B‚wE   B‚wE   B‚wE   B‚	wE   B‚
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## Scott Cairns (Aug 12, 2006)

Mike Greene @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> But if you're looking for secrets about GETTING gigs, all of a sudden, I become a little less giving! :mrgreen:
> 
> - Mike Greene



Its funny, cause Ive never been cagey about how I get my work. It just seems that so many of the composers/sound designers I tell, just dont have the motivation and/or right personality for the networking, schmoozing, building relationships, doing favors for clients on occasion, etc, etc.

I heard a really good saying that has stuck with me; It can take forever to land a client and five minutes to lose them.

Or something like that. I think you really need to value your clients, and look after them.


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## Evan Gamble (Aug 12, 2006)

Scott Cairns @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> josejherring @ Sat Aug 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Also I don't do things to waist time like play video games, watch tv or go to the movies.
> ...



yeah i just got hitman 2 as research  

I think if you aren't obsessed with the medium in which you are writing for (video games, tv, movies or whatever) than I think it makes life a lot harder imho. If I'm not working on a movie or whatever than Im watching one, or playing a game. (Occasionally I eat)

BTW I saw that Ian was the "Product Acquisition Director" for HItman 2-what's the position Ian? (if you read this)


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## midphase (Aug 13, 2006)

> Its funny, cause Ive never been cagey about how I get my work. It just seems that so many of the composers/sound designers I tell, just dont have the motivation and/or right personality for the networking, schmoozing, building relationships, doing favors for clients on occasion, etc, etc.



I think everyone has a bit of a different take on getting work. I know guys who are horrible at networking and schmoozing but do very well for themselves...and others who love to go to parties and "work the room".

Then there are the ones whoòwQ   B…wQ   B…wQ   B…wQ   B… wQ   B…!wQ   B…"wQ   B…#wQ   B…$wQ   B…%wQ   B…&wQ   B…'wQ   B…(wQ   B…)wQ   B…*wQ   B…+wQ   B…,wQ   B…-wQ   B….wQ   B…/wQ   B…0wQ   B…1wQ   B…2wQ   B…3wQ   B…4wQ


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## Hermitage59 (Aug 13, 2006)

Interesting comments on work practises, and time taken here. The time i take is dependent entirely on the project and how much work needs doing, so i couldn't give an average. I have discovered however that writing for ads and short films, as i'm doing now, is a little quicker than working my way through my symphonic projects. Probably 2 to 1 in terms of minutes as an approximate number.

Too many variables to answer this one more precisely.

Alex.


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## kid-surf (Aug 13, 2006)

Ashermusic @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> Mike Greene @ Sat Aug 12 said:
> 
> 
> > Lots of good stuff here. I recycle like crazy and I definitely second what Kays said.
> ...



I aspire to be as good as you 'think' you are..... :mrgreen: :razz:


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## kid-surf (Aug 13, 2006)

wonshu @ Sat Aug 12 said:


> kid-surf @ Sun Aug 13 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a habit of getting files at 5:00 PM (or there about) and them wanting to hear the first pass the next day. Guess where that puts me. I honestly believe that some clients "think" that writing music happens in "real time". They think "it's not that much music, If I hand the file over at 5:00 he can have something for me at 8:00 am".
> ...



Yeah probably... 

In general I'm pretty amazed at what people can create so quickly under these conditions. I know we slam people left and right (maybe under our breath for some). But we all deserve a little credit, IMO.

JNH is a friggn maniac, though... Wow. Impressive.


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## kid-surf (Aug 13, 2006)

Mike -- funny stuff man! Oh wait, it wasn't a joke. 

Scott -- some good thoughts there. I have the same work ethic. I like for people to walk away feeling good... yet, without me feeling like their puppet. "Look after them", that's a good way to put it.

Kays -- True. Whatever works for the individual. Many ways to climb this ladder. I'd say I'm more in the "likes parties" camp.  Not a lush, just enjoy a good party with interesting people to rap with. 

So... talking to some hot chick at a party... now that's my idea of research. :twisted:


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## Waywyn (Aug 13, 2006)

midphase @ Sun Aug 13 said:


> I think everyone has a bit of a different take on getting work. I know guys who are horrible at networking and schmoozing but do very well for themselves...and others who love to go to parties and "work the room".



the hardest thing i find personally, that we earn our money with feelings.
so now we put all this blood and effort into a piece and in the next moment we have to talk about contracts etc.

sometimes for me it is a little bit hard to switch these sites, especially when i started being in the bussiness.
i am a composer and this is what i do, but you HAVE TO be also good at being a tough salesman ("wow, you are really good but 5000 bucks is way to much" ... "yeeeeh, well, i can make it cheaper, no problem ..." )

it is a little bit like hans zimmer said in that one video:
the child says, "mum, when i am grown up i want to be a musician" and the mother says "but you can't be both"


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## tobyond (Aug 13, 2006)

Waywyn @ Sun Aug 13 said:


> it is a little bit like hans zimmer said in that one video:
> the child says, "mum, when i am grown up i want to be a musician" and the mother says "but you can't be both"



:mrgreen: 


As far as how much music fully orchestrated, it really depends on the style and a little luck. I recently had a 1 minute spot fully completed in less than an hour, and yet a little 30 second spot took me a whole week to get comfortable with. It also depends on the clients needs and their ability to communicate, some clients are just happy with anything and some never are.

Great topic BTW :smile:


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 13, 2006)

"I aspire to be as good as you 'think' you are..... "

I would think you'd aspire to be as good and fluent a musician as Jay actually is.


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## Dave Connor (Aug 13, 2006)

Interesting thread. I'm sure it depends on the style of music, size of the ensemble and the quality of the mockup or sampled based final score. I get the basic idea down in a good hurry but polishing is my favorite black hole to fall into.

The issue of not enough time and people delivering great scores in spite of it may sometimes be true but it seems to me that many scores are suffering under the tremendous time constraints.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 13, 2006)

Nothing would get done if it weren't for the last minute.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 14, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Aug 13 said:


> "I aspire to be as good as you 'think' you are..... "
> 
> I would think you'd aspire to be as good and fluent a musician as Jay actually is.



Why, thank you Nick. That's very nice.


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## Ed (Aug 14, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Aug 13 said:


> Nothing would get done if it weren't for the last minute.



I would always leave my homework till the last minute!


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## kid-surf (Aug 15, 2006)

Ashermusic @ Mon Aug 14 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Aug 13 said:
> 
> 
> > "I aspire to be as good as you 'think' you are..... "
> ...



Jokes... just jokes... 

The set up was too easy, Jay, couldn't resist.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 15, 2006)

kid-surf @ Mon Aug 14 said:


> Ashermusic @ Mon Aug 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Aug 13 said:
> ...



I understand Kid, no problem.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 15, 2006)

What makes you think that was a compliment, Jay? I was insulting Kid, of course!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## Ashermusic (Aug 17, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Aug 15 said:


> What makes you think that was a compliment, Jay? I was insulting Kid, of course!
> 
> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:



Too late, Nick, You said something nice and you are just going to have to live with the consequences


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## kid-surf (Aug 17, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Aug 15 said:


> What makes you think that was a compliment, Jay? I was insulting Kid, of course!
> 
> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:




:lol: :twisted: :lol:


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## PaulR (Aug 20, 2006)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Aug 20 said:


> ) Start writing and avoid "through composing." Peter



That's an Americanism for what?


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## Thonex (Aug 20, 2006)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Aug 20 said:


> Here's what I learned from Jerry Goldsmith.
> 
> .......
> 
> ...



But one of the things I like most about Goldsmith *are* his "through composed" melodies that span 16 to 32 bars as opposed to the 2 to 4 bar melodies.

Once you write long and strong themes like that... "economy writing" can go much faster :smile: 

T


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## Thonex (Aug 20, 2006)

PaulR @ Sun Aug 20 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Sun Aug 20 said:
> 
> 
> > ) Start writing and avoid "through composing." Peter
> ...


Basically, through written means that there were little or no repeated parts... writing from beginning to end as an evolving and changing piece.

What he learned from Goldsmith is that repetition is a good thing


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## Peter Alexander (Aug 21, 2006)

By "through composed" I mean starting at bar one and writing with no plan in mind.


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## Rob Elliott (Aug 23, 2006)

Thanks guys for all the helpful posts. This has been quite an experience scoring this 60 min film. I have close to 40 mins of music and have had eight days to complete. The Director is very pleased and wants me to do his next film (shooting in early Oct.) But between you and me :oops: - I really wish I had more time to tighten things up a bit.

One thing that I have learned is because of time - my writing actually allowed the film to 'breath' more. I found myself forcing less and letting the scene develop more.

I think I have learned good things as far as writing / orchestrating. Still wish I had a better solution for strings - they, by far take the most time to get right. It is frustrating to 'hear' a part and it takes 30-45 mins to make it sound even close.


--Again, becuase of time, I used only one project (SX) and had the 60 min AVI file in that project. Everything tracked and worked great - but aside from having seperate projects - seperate cues - what do you guys do for tempo adjustments (from cue to cue).


i.e. - you work on a cue in the 'middle' - set the tempo. go back and work on a cue in the beginning - set a new tempo for that beginning cue and this creates problems for everything 'downstream'. I ended up just performing without a click track on the frontside cues (which I actually liked). 

I just didn't have time to constantly open up new project files, etc. Given more time I would do this for the major cues - but somehow I don't think this will be the last rush job I get.

Your ideas are welcomed.

Thanks again for your comments.


Rob


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## Rob Elliott (Aug 29, 2006)

I really never had so much as a hiccup with that 60 min avi. Worked like a charm (except ofcourse if I altered the tempo track - and moving things.)


Rob


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## Thonex (Sep 1, 2006)

Remy @ Tue Aug 29 said:


> Rob Elliott @ Wed Aug 23 said:
> 
> 
> > --Again, becuase of time, I used only one project (SX) and had the 60 min AVI file in that project.
> ...



I do all of my movie score in 1 project in Nuendo. 90 minute movies, 2500 bars long no problems. I used to have 1 project per act, but I don't do that since Cubase VST because back then I was able to have multiple arrangements open... but now with Cubase/Nuendo.... you and only have 1 active project open and so I put the whole thing on 1 project.... and do MANY incremental saves... although no problems really.

T


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## Remy (Sep 1, 2006)

Do you bounce stuff when you work with a 90min project?
Cause me, once i have like 30tracks i start get some lagging on the video, and that is very unpleaseant way of working.
Well... at the same time i got a shit computer, so maybe thats the real reason :mrgreen:


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 1, 2006)

Thonex @ Fri Sep 01 said:


> Remy @ Tue Aug 29 said:
> 
> 
> > Rob Elliott @ Wed Aug 23 said:
> ...




T - thanks for this. Maybe you said somewhere but how do you deal with the 'tempo track' issue. On this last project I found myself freewheeling it on a number of cues (away fromt he main one.


I really like having one project (no hiccups here) but yes multiple saves and new project numbers to have options 


Rob


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## homebilly (Sep 7, 2006)

Rob Elliott @ Wed Aug 23 said:


> i.e. - you work on a cue in the 'middle' - set the tempo. go back and work on a cue in the beginning - set a new tempo for that beginning cue and this creates problems for everything 'downstream'. I ended up just performing without a click track on the frontside cues (which I actually liked).



rob, as i use DP it's pretty easy using chunks. chunks are basically sub sequences within a project. so each cue is an independent entity (chunk) with its own tempo, key, track layout etc..... i just copy and repeat then stir
before i started using chunks i had the same problems that you are running in to.


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## SvK (Sep 16, 2006)

I can do a minute a day..........the frustrating thing is that the actual writing of that minute takes no time (between 30 minutes to 3 hours)

It's the dang mocking-up that takes 10 to 12 hours....in a way all the brilliant Vienna stuff is a curse. Don't get me wrong, I love it. 

But you know the drill...Once you get into really perfecting those swells everywhere its 15 hours later...ON 60 seconds!!!........and then programming in the rubatos after all is done......and dang that crescendo just doesn't "explode yet".....ohhhhh wait sordinos or flauts?? Ohh wait they should really morph into ponticello trems....nah that doesn't work......go smoke a cigarette! come back listen again, SH%T what was I thinking, it's thick soup now! must remember that I liked it when I first started.....

hehe

SvK


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 17, 2006)

"must remember that I liked it when I first started"

That's the whole thing right there, isn't it. When I forget that, I just keep playing the thing over and over getting increasingly frustrated.


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## Ed (Sep 17, 2006)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Sep 17 said:


> "must remember that I liked it when I first started"
> 
> That's the whole thing right there, isn't it. When I forget that, I just keep playing the thing over and over getting increasingly frustrated.



Recently thats been a big problem for me :evil: :razz:


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 18, 2006)

homebilly @ Thu Sep 07 said:


> Rob Elliott @ Wed Aug 23 said:
> 
> 
> > i.e. - you work on a cue in the 'middle' - set the tempo. go back and work on a cue in the beginning - set a new tempo for that beginning cue and this creates problems for everything 'downstream'. I ended up just performing without a click track on the frontside cues (which I actually liked).
> ...




Yea homebilly sounds like a nice solution. Anyone have this type of solution figured out in Cubase. I probably need to get my brain wrapped around the 'time warp tool'.


Rob


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## SvK (Sep 18, 2006)

Food For Thought...That I need to LEARN TO FOLLOW:

Perfectionism, leads to procrastination, leads to paralysis....


SvK


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