# Your orchestral templates with Cubase and multi-timbral multi-output instruments



## PeterKorcek (Mar 4, 2015)

Hey there, recently upgraded to C8 (cubase was my first DAW, later on tried Logic Pro X, which is excellent daw as well) due to generally positive feedback from many users + the combo C8 + Mac is amazing.

Anyway, I was wondering how you set up your orchestral templates, it has been discussed before and there are some videos on youtube (Blakus, etc), but I have just couple of questions, and you can shortly describe your setup for different situations (mockup, proper template, synth template, etc).

_Do you use Instrument tracks or Rack instruments? _
I am just building my basic orch. template and I have 2 rack instruments, Kontakt and Omnisphere as multi-output instances, to each of them are 4 MIDI tracks connected, I dont know if youre using maximum per instance, i.e. 8 tracks to Omni, 8 stereo tracks to Kontakt, etc

_How do you use automation in huge templates_
In terms of MIDI CC it's quite ok, you can have Quick controls setup, for my EW libraries I use mainly C1 and C11, what about automating Omnisphere in your templates - when I want to use enable host automation and tweak parameter with the knob, the automation is layered in the 'global' track of instance within VST instrument folder, on MIDI track I can use only MIDI CC, I thought that I would have MIDI CC template within Omnisphere (MIDI CC pattern that would be the same across the instances) and have QC setup for most common MIDI CC for example for Omnisphere, in Kontakt that would be more cumbersome I guess?

Do you have automation setup as well in your template or do you just adjust on the fly?
(using Nektar P1 MIDI controller which is very nice indeed, especially with Cubase, Logic as well)

Sry for the lengthy post and thanks a lot for the answers


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 5, 2015)

Hey Peter,

here are my 2 cents!

I've recently begun to build an "ALL" template, which is more or less my template having loaded everything from every sample library/Vst I need:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Kb_bbqr9V1elBHMDItUFVaVzA/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Kb_b ... sp=sharing)
(you may want to download the picture because it is too small in preview mode)

Everything in this template is instrument tracks and NO rack instruments at all, because of - as you already mentioned above - automation! It is just annoying to do the automation from the rack folder. I simply prefer to have the automation lane directly below the track itself!

Another very huge advantage is, that all of these tracks easily can be deactivated. Meaning, with a simple shortcut I can easily unload the samples and all effects ... and reload everything when needed.

So all in all the template is around 350 tracks huge but only the most important ones are activated

In case you are wondering about the memory usage of instrument tracks vs. rack isntruments, I am not pretty sure, but last thing I heard is like 45MB per empty Kontakt instance. Since I got 64GB in my machine I don't care if 4GB are wasted on instances.

For the first time ever I really feel productive. Simply because everything I need is "at hand". I don't need to waste any time loading a string patch and assign it to a bus etc. ... Does it make my music better? Of course not, but there is nothing more awesome to let your creativity go and not being locked in by technical issues!

The absolutely only downside on all of this - and I would guess that Steinberg is already working on a patch on this - once I activate tracks sometimes it looses the MIDI connections. However, it is just a mouseclick and may be solved soon. Still better than loading stuff up!


As a little extra info: all of my e.g. legato or staccato patches on Strings and Brass use layered libs. Meaning for my Violins legato patch I loaded Berlin Violins, Sable, CineStrings and Agitato in the same Kontakt instance to the same output! The simply reason to me is, that I get that rub which I miss from single patches. I feel that I create the constant tuning and random happenings of several string/brass players constantly tuning into each other. Please do not confuse that with the realism of a real orchestra. This will most likely never happen with sample libs, but to me it is one worthy step closer!

Another reason is room depth. When I use several patches combined, I get several mic distances but not from the same lib but different ones. To me it feels more advanced to simply stack a room than trying to recreated an ambience with a reverb. I simply feel more juice and depths!


----------



## arnau (Mar 5, 2015)

Hi Alex, thanks for your comments!
Lately I've been thinking about automation and the best way to do it. I use Rack Instruments only with VEPRO5 instances that connect my master PC with two Slaves. But I edit my automation in automation tracks instead of inside every MIDI track. But sometimes I find that some instruments, from different developers, and randomly, do not read the automation. Normally I setup filter cut off in Kontakt to CC1 in Cubase 7.5. As you can see in this video, I have to click again and create a point in the lane to hear the desired cut off. Have you ever had any problem like this? 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35354500/VID_20150227_184921.mp4

Best!


----------



## brett (Mar 5, 2015)

Hi Alex

I'm yet to jump on Cubase 8 (still on 6.0.x) so am unfamiliar with the new version of instrument tracks. That said I'm curious if you host all your Kontakt VSTi in cubase itself or VEP? I use VEP extensively and am trying to understand your template setup

Cheers


----------



## Martin K (Mar 5, 2015)

Thank You Alex!

I’m using Instrument Tracks as well and my main template is approx. 20-25 tracks (only the main orchestral instruments). If I need additional instruments I will duplicate a track I’ve already set up and load the instrument I need into it. That way the routing, effects etc are already in place. I’ve wanted to expand my template for a long time, but since I want to stick to Instrument Tracks, VEP is not an option and with 100+ tracks the saving time in Cubase is way too long.

You my good sir made me realize that in Cubase 8 you can actually disable Instrument Tracks, which effectively solves the problem of long saving times.

Now off to build a new (big) template 

Thank You!

all the best,
Martin


----------



## PeterKorcek (Mar 5, 2015)

Waywyn @ Thu Mar 05 said:


> In case you are wondering about the memory usage of instrument tracks vs. rack isntruments...
> 
> The absolutely only downside on all of this - once I activate tracks sometimes it looses the MIDI connections.
> 
> As a little extra info: all of my e.g. legato or staccato patches on Strings and Brass use layered libs.



Hey Alex, you were always helpful, thanks very much for the info, if that is the case with memory usage, I might be OK with Instrument tracks for a start, as it is easier to setup and everything, will try it at least, automation will be then non-problematic.

Is it like a bug or something when you activate instrument tracks? others experienced it as well?

Very good tip on using multiple libraries in 1 instance - right now I have only EW stuff and Symphobia 1, but when money will allow will buy some additional libraries for more depth and "inconsistency".


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 6, 2015)

arnau @ Thu Mar 05 said:


> Hi Alex, thanks for your comments!
> Lately I've been thinking about automation and the best way to do it. I use Rack Instruments only with VEPRO5 instances that connect my master PC with two Slaves. But I edit my automation in automation tracks instead of inside every MIDI track. But sometimes I find that some instruments, from different developers, and randomly, do not read the automation. Normally I setup filter cut off in Kontakt to CC1 in Cubase 7.5. As you can see in this video, I have to click again and create a point in the lane to hear the desired cut off. Have you ever had any problem like this?
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35354500/VID_20150227_184921.mp4
> ...



Check your prefs under MIDI. Do you chase those CC or events? This is the only thing I could think of.


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 6, 2015)

brett @ Thu Mar 05 said:


> Hi Alex
> 
> I'm yet to jump on Cubase 8 (still on 6.0.x) so am unfamiliar with the new version of instrument tracks. That said I'm curious if you host all your Kontakt VSTi in cubase itself or VEP? I use VEP extensively and am trying to understand your template setup
> 
> Cheers



All inside Cubase, no VEPro, no nothing, just plain instrument tracks, one Kontakt instace for each articulation. In case of the question if this is a waste of RAM, YES, but I don't care. I can not imagine the difference that much in comparison to multitimbral hosted instruments. I would love to see some testing results but it is actually that important since it does not affect me. Last thing I heard it that one empty instance of Kontakt needs 45MB of memory. However, if you start loading several channels, I am not sure of the amount starts to add up (could be that 45MB are added because of having another channel inside Kontakt) ... which would be as much as two instrument tracks. Just assumptions here, but in times where 64GB are cheap as fuck, I don't care about this!


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 6, 2015)

Martin K @ Fri Mar 06 said:


> You my good sir made me realize that in Cubase 8 you can actually disable Instrument Tracks, which effectively solves the problem of long saving times.




Thanks Martin, I actually consider the disable tracks function one of the most powerful new tools in Cubase EVER! By using this your template could even like 1000+tracks huge, even by having a not very powerful machine!


----------



## Piano & Strings (Mar 6, 2015)

Thanks so much for sharing your workflow Alex! This template solution sounds like a potentially game changer for me and I'm extremely excited to try it out! I hope you can disabld instrument tracks in Cubase 7 too (bites nails)!


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 6, 2015)

Marc Filmer @ Fri Mar 06 said:


> Thanks so much for sharing your workflow Alex! This template solution sounds like a potentially game changer for me and I'm extremely excited to try it out! I hope you can disabld instrument tracks in Cubase 7 too (bites nails)!



Nope! New feature in 8 (and only Pro as far as I know!)


----------



## Piano & Strings (Mar 6, 2015)

Arrrggghhhh! Still, might have to take a trial and upgrade lol


----------



## Martin K (Mar 6, 2015)

Marc Filmer @ Sat Mar 07 said:


> Arrrggghhhh! Still, might have to take a trial and upgrade lol



Hi Marc.

I just found, sort of, a work-around to that. Not sure if it works in Cubase 7 as I'm currently on 7.5 (I have 8, but still working with 7.5 while waiting for the March maintenance update).

If you create a little event on the tracks you wanna "disable" and freeze the tracks with the unload instrument option checked, it kind of do the same thing. Not as ideal as disabling, but something worth trying maybe 

Hope this helps.

best,
Martin


----------



## Piano & Strings (Mar 6, 2015)

Thanks Martin! Sounds like something to tide me over... the update fee isn't as very much for me and thanks for the heads up about the March maintenance update - sounds like it's worth waiting for that


----------



## Piano & Strings (Mar 6, 2015)

Martin K @ Fri Mar 06 said:


> Marc Filmer @ Sat Mar 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Arrrggghhhh! Still, might have to take a trial and upgrade lol
> ...


Wowzers! I just tried this out - it really works a charm! Free's up the RAM! I am not concerned about the loading time of patches - that doesn't get me out of the flow - it's the searching and routing that bugs me. I wonder... is this really freeing up the cpu and just writing to a file?! I can't wait to have a go and building a super huge template... I can imagine going up and over a thousand instrument tracks (frozen), but I wonder if I'd start running into other issues at this size! I guess I should plan start smaller, than loading everything I own to freeze! Feels like Cryogenic Suspension hahaha!


----------



## tokatila (Mar 6, 2015)

Waywyn @ Fri Mar 06 said:


> Martin K @ Fri Mar 06 said:
> 
> 
> > You my good sir made me realize that in Cubase 8 you can actually disable Instrument Tracks, which effectively solves the problem of long saving times.
> ...



This. I love instrument racks, disabling, direct automation, same channel in the mixer window (not a separate midi and VST track like with rack). 

I see no point using rack instruments.


----------



## brett (Mar 6, 2015)

Hi Alex

Wow. I'd be loath to let go of VEP but maybe there's something I'm missing here. 
I understand the advantages of the new instrument tracks with respect to automation (a real plus IMO) but are there any disadvantages? Load times and save times of course. But what about system / ASIO performance? Does hosting ~50GB samples inside cubase rather than VEP improve overall performance / latency or make things slightly worse? 

I ask because I'm on a brand new dual Xeon rig that should be amazing but CPU overheads mean I have to run at 256 samples or even 512 to give me enough headroom to avoid pops and clicks. I'm beginning to suspect VEP but more homework is needed yet

Thanks all


----------



## Guy Rowland (Mar 6, 2015)

brett @ Fri Mar 06 said:


> Hi Alex
> 
> Wow. I'd be loath to let go of VEP but maybe there's something I'm missing here.
> I understand the advantages of the new instrument tracks with respect to automation (a real plus IMO) but are there any disadvantages? Load times and save times of course. But what about system / ASIO performance? Does hosting ~50GB samples inside cubase rather than VEP improve overall performance / latency or make things slightly worse?
> ...



Good questions...

You know what would be perfect? When you click on a track, you automatically activate it. You could start essentially empty - or all unloaded rather. It would load in a snap. Then as you click around as you compose, you start loading up. A downside is that it might slow you up in practice, I'm such an impatient sod... If I want a flute I want it NOW not in 6 seconds time or anything.


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 7, 2015)

brett @ Fri Mar 06 said:


> Hi Alex
> 
> Wow. I'd be loath to let go of VEP but maybe there's something I'm missing here.
> I understand the advantages of the new instrument tracks with respect to automation (a real plus IMO) but are there any disadvantages? Load times and save times of course. But what about system / ASIO performance? Does hosting ~50GB samples inside cubase rather than VEP improve overall performance / latency or make things slightly worse?
> ...



Okay, here is my personal take on this. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I see all this:

Why should having two applications open (Cubase and VEPro) on the same computer increase the performance? You need the CPU and RAM no matter if it is inside Cubase or outside of it. It is still the same machine. Of course Cubase just needs to take care of processing plugins and effects while VEPro takes care of the samples, but your computer still has to handle it. To me it makes way more sense if you have one or a couple of slaves so the main DAW is totally free to take care of the processing.

Regarding loading times and stuff. This is something I never understood. All in all I am aware that unconnecting VEPro and reloading another project which uses the same template is the fastest solution, but how many times a day do you open projects? I mean, the loading times of a template may be very long but just for the very first time after you boot up your machine, after that all samples are kind of stored in a memory footprint and reload way faster. Yes, it still loads a minute or two, but it is not that I am glued in front of the computer. I have a drink, go to the toilet, answer a mail or whatever 

I mean if I would have to open and close 100 projects a day and I can clearly see, I am losing 4 hours only because of the opening and closing and reloading samples, VEPro to me makes total sense on one machine, but I personally work on one or two tracks a day. Even when I do reworks on tracks I never work on more than 3-5 tracks and this does not happen every day anyway. So all in all I am losing maybe 10 mins during the full day when I open my project inside Cubase without the help of VEPro!

All in all my new template works pretty well, but to be honest I do not have the time to recreated the exact sample template with VEPro again and check how things compare to each other! Besides that if I see that performance goes down I can simply disable unneeded tracks anyway or use the freeze function. However, so far, even on busy projects I didn't need to do any of this!


----------



## dgburns (Mar 7, 2015)

A stupid question- how do you de-activate a intr track exactly? do you just turn off the power button? or....?

as to the one cubase versus cubase and vepro on the same machine-there are some plugins,such as Arturia for example that don't play well at all in Cubase(or LPX for that matter) but do work well in vepro.The arp solina is one example.So for me,I load it in vepro instead of inside cubase.Royal pita.

I gather that you are doing library music and not scoring to picture lock? yes?

until we have substantially more scale cpu/ram etc,the multi pc slave vepro thing is the best for me at the moment.I just can't imagine trying to do it all in the one daw.Having stubbornly tried to do just that for many years until I finally gave up and went multi pc.

I admit that as kontakt instr get more complex,it becomes harder to manipulate them without seeing the gui right in the daw...

mtc guys


----------



## Daryl (Mar 7, 2015)

Waywyn @ Sat Mar 07 said:


> Okay, here is my personal take on this. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I see all this:
> 
> Why should having two applications open (Cubase and VEPro) on the same computer increase the performance?


For some products VEP handles the processing more efficiently than Cubendo. Multiple SM instruments, is one example.

D


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 7, 2015)

Daryl @ Sat Mar 07 said:


> Waywyn @ Sat Mar 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, here is my personal take on this. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I see all this:
> ...



Ah I see, well mostly all works fine here, but then again I am just having the Trumpet and Trombone by SM!


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 7, 2015)

dgburns @ Sat Mar 07 said:


> A stupid question- how do you de-activate a intr track exactly? do you just turn off the power button? or....?
> 
> as to the one cubase versus cubase and vepro on the same machine-there are some plugins,such as Arturia for example that don't play well at all in Cubase(or LPX for that matter) but do work well in vepro.The arp solina is one example.So for me,I load it in vepro instead of inside cubase.Royal pita.
> 
> ...



I understand, makes sense regarding specific instruments which do not run well inside a sequencer!

Regarding deactivate: It is a command in Cubase which let's you simply switch off the track, unloads the connected vsti (and therefore frees the ram) and insert fx! If you need the track again you can simply activate it, the vsti will load again and all fx become active also.

Further up I was reading about freezing the tracks to save ram. I also tried that but at some point it horribly went wrong. I am not sure when this happened and I am not sure if that bug is already solved but at large setups Cubase sometimes tends to connect VSTis to other channels when you reload the session. I am not sure if this is just happening with rack instruments or instruments tracks also. I simply stayed away from using freeze unless I just wanted to get rid of some channels with e.g. lots of insert fx to process something intensively.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Mar 7, 2015)

I've been playing around with this today on-and-off, some really promising stuff. I tried Track Presets again first before I remembered why I don't use them (no routing info is passed on). Then i discovered that when I switch off a Rack instrument in the rack, it doesn't unload from RAM in the same way that a Track Instrument does (you all probably knew that already, I'm still catching up).

Basically track instrument disabling seems great - pretty quick, you just need to set a key command. The only very minor issue I have when re-opening a project (or loading new from template) is disabled instrument tracks with multi outs. In that case, a prompt appears saying it can't connect the multi out tracks, should Cubase delete them? Just clicking "no" works fine - when you then enable a track, all the multi outs connect correctly. It's just a minor bore to get that window every time you load a project - anyone have any idea if there's a way round that?


----------



## Mahlon (Mar 7, 2015)

So, I'm still trying to wrap my head around one aspect of Track Instruments vs Rack Instruments. I've always used Rack Instruments.

So, say I have all five voices of Berlin Strings (Vlns 1,2; Violas; Cellos; Basses) running in VE Pro on a slave. If I use Track Instrument, I can't access VE Pro MIDI Ports (the plug-in ports) to put all the voices in one instance of VE Pro. I would need 5 instances, right. Because from the DAW, I can't access VE Pro's MIDI ports separately. 

Whereas, if I use a Rack instrument, I can. Is that right?

That seems like an organizational disadvantage for Track Instruments in this situation because you'd have to have so many more instances of VE Pro open across the whole orchestra.

Am I seeing that right? I've done some little tests with Track Instruments and Berlin Strings and it seems like Expression Maps works more reliably using Track Instruments. But I'm not absolutely certain about that until I re-work all the BST.

Help my poor mind understand. :? 

Thanks,
Mahlon


----------



## PeterKorcek (Mar 7, 2015)

Mahlon @ Sat Mar 07 said:


> So, say I have all five voices of Berlin Strings (Vlns 1,2; Violas; Cellos; Basses) running in VE Pro on a slave. If I use Track Instrument, I can't access VE Pro MIDI Ports (the plug-in ports) to put all the voices in one instance of VE Pro. I would need 5 instances, right. Because from the DAW, I can't access VE Pro's MIDI ports separately.



I was wondering the same as I have my EW samples on PC slave using VEP - sure we can do 1 instance for 1 articulation of an instrument, but that would be a lot of tracks, right? its better to have most common articulations in 1 instance, and then using Rack instrument option inside Cubase.


----------



## dgburns (Mar 7, 2015)

Mahlon @ Sat Mar 07 said:


> So, I'm still trying to wrap my head around one aspect of Track Instruments vs Rack Instruments. I've always used Rack Instruments.
> 
> So, say I have all five voices of Berlin Strings (Vlns 1,2; Violas; Cellos; Basses) running in VE Pro on a slave. If I use Track Instrument, I can't access VE Pro MIDI Ports (the plug-in ports) to put all the voices in one instance of VE Pro. I would need 5 instances, right. Because from the DAW, I can't access VE Pro's MIDI ports separately.
> 
> ...



I might be misunderstanding here,but I use track not rack instruments and can access all vepro ports and multi outs.

@Guy - been using track presets to import instrument sections for a while now.Works great for me.Now that we can de-activate tracks as well,I might still prefer to import tracks using track presets because you can start with smaller templates and build up quickly,ie a track that started off as a country tune,and turned out to need full blown orchestra as well is now no big deal.What I did was create a "all" template first,and then saved sections as multi track presets,then blew them all out of the template,leaving empty folders to populate if needed.
multi track preset scan include midi and vepro instances,so I just include the vepro intrument rack that is connected to another pc and when you recall the preset and import the tracks,it all comes back up like it should.Also,if for some reason the midi gets disconnected,simply recalling the preset can get you a new set of tracks rather then manually reconfiguring all the mdi by hand.can save time.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Mar 7, 2015)

But dg - how does that work with routing? I don't get any routing info when I load in a preset.

Track Archives seemed more promising as they did load the routing, I might well make use of those too.


----------



## dgburns (Mar 8, 2015)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Mar 07 said:


> But dg - how does that work with routing? I don't get any routing info when I load in a preset.
> 
> Track Archives seemed more promising as they did load the routing, I might well make use of those too.



yup,I think you're right-you maybe need to re-route.

The track archive is a bit tricky because I think it also imports tempo data,which is not what you always want.But Track archive is fantastic if you need to import a cue from a previous session along with audio files and what not.Not sure I'd use track archive for importing tempate tracks into an existing cue that has a bit of tempo data etc.still trying to work out the details myself in all this.but all very promising it seems


----------



## PeterKorcek (Mar 8, 2015)

So dg, can I ask, how would you setup your template if using VEP on slave computer - I can use Rack instrument, Instrument tracks to which I can route MIDI tracks as well, but the instance of VEP will be only on the instrument track itself and then instrument track for 1 vep instance where only 1 patch/articulation is

Alex, do you disable multithread support on Kontakt if you have just 1 patch on Kontakt instance?


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 8, 2015)

PeterKorcek @ Sun Mar 08 said:


> Alex, do you disable multithread support on Kontakt if you have just 1 patch on Kontakt instance?



No, but out of curiosity, wouldn't that be unlogical if 1 core takes care of around all 350 Kontakt instances (assuming I would have enough RAM to have them all enabled?


----------



## dgburns (Mar 8, 2015)

PeterKorcek @ Sun Mar 08 said:


> So dg, can I ask, how would you setup your template if using VEP on slave computer - I can use Rack instrument, Instrument tracks to which I can route MIDI tracks as well, but the instance of VEP will be only on the instrument track itself and then instrument track for 1 vep instance where only 1 patch/articulation is
> 
> Alex, do you disable multithread support on Kontakt if you have just 1 patch on Kontakt instance?



edit after the fact- One instrument track with vep
and a bunch of midi tracks assigned to it.I don't write midi to the instrument track-I leave it alone,perhaps for automation,but I treat the instrument track like an audio in only.

I use track instruments for VEP to other pc slaves.I think you're asking about how the audio comes back in? In my case I just send audio back through the one stereo return from vep-mostly because of offline bouncing allows me to refine further if I want to make everything audio before mix-which I don't always have time to do.I carried over the concept of more VEP connections a la LPX,so many VEP's rather then lot's of multiport use in C8 with fewer connections.All because of track presets and the speed at which you can add in tracks rather fast.If I was to collate the tracks and use less VEP connections,I'd find it less flexible adding in just exactly what is needed.You could take the concept further and pre-save lot's of multi's such as Symphobia etc,and recall in one instrument track along with the properly named midi tracks pre-routed and off you go.But then,I'm experimenting with selecting tracks via remote,so maybe having all the tracks defined but de-activated will retain their track number.Again still digesting the concepts being discussed here.Alex has me rethinking some stuff too.


----------



## PeterKorcek (Mar 8, 2015)

Waywyn @ Sun Mar 08 said:


> PeterKorcek @ Sun Mar 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Alex, do you disable multithread support on Kontakt if you have just 1 patch on Kontakt instance?
> ...



I know, just read it today somewhere on Steinberg forum, that if using 1 patch per 1 instance of Kontakt, one may disable this so that it wont "fight" with multi-thread support in Cubase. I found it "odd", so I thought I might ask. thanks


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 8, 2015)

PeterKorcek @ Sun Mar 08 said:


> Waywyn @ Sun Mar 08 said:
> 
> 
> > PeterKorcek @ Sun Mar 08 said:
> ...



Oh ok, I see ... so that would be, just in case you have issue etc. then switch it off. I never had any issues so probably that's why I never cared about switching it off or not.


----------



## PeterKorcek (Mar 8, 2015)

thanks Alex...basically I am just trying to collect some ideas how to set up my template in Cubase when using Slave PC with VEP hosting my EW libraries - For Kontakt and Omnisphere libraries I might use 1 instance per patch setting, but what about all the articulations that I want to have access to from Cubase through VEp5 - I might use approach I had in LPX - load f.e. 1 instance of VEP for First Violins and the most common articulations and patches I use with them, routed to 1 output as it is the same instrument - by using Instrument track and multiple MIDI tracks routed to this Instrument track, having one common output in mixer.

What do you think about this - Having 1 instrument track for 1 VEP instance hosting 1 articulation of 1 seciton of 1 instrument - it would be crazy lots of tracks, right?


----------



## Piano & Strings (Mar 16, 2015)

Waywyn @ Thu Mar 05 said:


> Hey Peter,
> 
> here are my 2 cents!
> 
> ...



Hi Alex,

In Cubase 7, I attempted a template with frozen Virtual Instrument tracks and sure enough, by the time I got to 200 tracks, the metrenome was dropping out again, playback was sluggish, probably from trying to play back 2bars of silence on 200 tracks! I'm now ready to upgrade to Cubase 8 and try out this 'deactivate track' feature, but I have a question for you: when you say you loose midi input sometimes on these tracks, is it one click to reconnect all the virtual instrument tracks in one go, or do you have to do this on every track that looses its midi input?


----------



## Waywyn (Mar 16, 2015)

Marc: since I most of the time reactivate just one or two tracks, I usually reassign them real quick with a mouse click ... however, if you are about to reactivate several ones, you can, as about everything in Cubase, shift select everything and activate every input to, let's say "all inputs" by holding down shift+alt and click!


----------



## Piano & Strings (Mar 16, 2015)

Waywyn @ Mon Mar 16 said:


> Marc: since I most of the time reactivate just one or two tracks, I usually reassign them real quick with a mouse click ... however, if you are about to reactivate several ones, you can, as about everything in Cubase, shift select everything and activate every input to, let's say "all inputs" by holding down shift+alt and click!



Thanks Alex!


----------



## fantasiom (Mar 16, 2015)

I still use rack instruments mostly. I have about 200 midi tracks routed to VE Pro and I have an individual return for EVERY instrument, so 200 audio returns back from ve pro. I'm quite amazed that one ethernet cable and do it, but it works. I then place each vst return underneath each MIDI track so that I can automate quickly and easily. Having a VST return underneath each MIDI track can look ugly and cluttered so I use track visibility agents to hide the vst returns when i don't need to automate which is assigned to a key command. then when I need to automate I just hit that command the vst returns appear. In the inspector I then assign the outputs to each instrument so that I can add plugins and sends without needing to go the vst return track.


----------



## Jaap (Mar 16, 2015)

Waywyn @ Mon Mar 16 said:


> Marc: since I most of the time reactivate just one or two tracks, I usually reassign them real quick with a mouse click ... however, if you are about to reactivate several ones, you can, as about everything in Cubase, shift select everything and activate every input to, let's say "all inputs" by holding down shift+alt and click!



This is a lifesaver!! I knew this with assigning with midi outputs in my (old now) VEP template, but never thought to do this with the inputs.... Cheers o-[][]-o


----------



## Piano & Strings (Mar 18, 2015)

Marc Filmer @ Mon Mar 16 said:


> Waywyn @ Thu Mar 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Peter,
> ...


Here's what's very interesting... I started a new blank project and gave myself a decent 512 buffer. I created a new blank midi track, not associated with any vst. I started playback with metronome at 120bpm and kept duplicating tracks. By the time I got to around 200 blank midi tracks, the metronome was dropping out and playback was getting progressively more sluggish if I added even one or two more tracks! I wonder... is this a Cubase 7 limitation or a system limitation? Of course, I'm expecting the later, but I'm pretty stunned that with no musical events, samples or vst engines loaded, I can't play 200 empty midi tracks?!

*DAW:* _Cubase 7.0.2 Build 2107 64bit_
*Audio Interface:* _Steinberg UR22_
*System OS:* _Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit, Service Pack 1_
*System Model:* _ASUS Desktop PC CM1740 Series_
*Processor:* _AMD A8-3800 APU with Radeon HD Graphics 2.40ghz_
*RAM Installed:* _16gb_


----------



## Guy Rowland (Mar 18, 2015)

Something very wrong there, Marc. Just did a quick 7.5.2 test to be sure and it plays 200 unrouted midi tracks normally with close to 0% on the vst meters, 256 buffer with RME drivers. Not sure where your problem might lie - I remember 7.0.2 as being pretty stable - something definitely sounds screwy somewhere.


----------



## Piano & Strings (Mar 18, 2015)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Mar 18 said:


> Something very wrong there, Marc. Just did a quick 7.5.2 test to be sure and it plays 200 unrouted midi tracks normally with close to 0% on the vst meters, 256 buffer with RME drivers. Not sure where your problem might lie - I remember 7.0.2 as being pretty stable - something definitely sounds screwy somewhere.



Oh god... Thanks for that quick test Guy... time to go troubleshooting methinks, but I'm glad I know it's not the action of freezing/deactivating tracks itself, as it gives me hope for that large template, once I find the culprit here.


----------



## Piano & Strings (Mar 18, 2015)

Marc Filmer @ Wed Mar 18 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Wed Mar 18 said:
> 
> 
> > Something very wrong there, Marc. Just did a quick 7.5.2 test to be sure and it plays 200 unrouted midi tracks normally with close to 0% on the vst meters, 256 buffer with RME drivers. Not sure where your problem might lie - I remember 7.0.2 as being pretty stable - something definitely sounds screwy somewhere.
> ...



Hmm... Ok... So instead of going back to my own default 'Blank' template, that has all my settings tweaked and video, tempo tracks (etc) layed out, project ready, I tried repeating the test on one of the stock Cubase 7 templates.

I left the metronome clicking away as I duplicate and duplicated the tracks and I got to 1000 empty midi tracks with no metronome dropout and no sluggish playback! Go figure! I'm still not sure what *exactly* caused this issue (which has blighted MANY of my large template attempts, but the obvious thing to do now, is to start over and import my frozen tracks as archived into a Cubase Default template and take it from there. Verrryyyy interesting!


----------



## esencia (Oct 24, 2016)

I was looking for an improvement on my workflow between Cubase and VEP 6 but also for RAM management, and I've found this old post

I'm creating a big template using VEP instances that are connected to Cubase using VST VEP Instrument. So on my project I have a lot of midi tracks connected to each of the VEP Instrument tracks. My whole template will exceed my 64GB of RAM, so I wonder if there is a way to freeze VEP instances (deactivate them), directly from Cubase in a similar way as Cubase allows you to disable VST Instruments.

Any tips?

Thanks


----------

