# Spitfire Chamber Strings Announced



## ryanstrong (Jun 29, 2016)

"13 of the finest strings players, playing the finest instruments via the finest signal path in The Hall at Air Studios, London."

http://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/chamber-strings/

Interesting, wonder what this will sound like with Sable!


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## synthpunk (Jun 29, 2016)

Sable is such a good product, and with CSS out it better be good.


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## Øivind (Jun 29, 2016)

Seems like a compilation of Sable with new GUI, NKS features and can be used with Kontakt Player. Nice!


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## Ashermusic (Jun 29, 2016)

oivind_rosvold said:


> Seems like a compilation of Sable with new GUI, NKS features and can be used with Kontakt Player. Nice!



Apparently they are discontinuing Sable. Saw a n ad on FB "last chance to buy before discontinued."


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## Lee Blaske (Jun 29, 2016)

Just got the email about this, too. I'm a little concerned about the announcement that Sable is R.I.P. That library was a significant investment, and it's worrisome that it'll be up on blocks. I'm assuming "R.I.P." means no new versions to keep it compatible with future versions of Kontakt.


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## Øivind (Jun 29, 2016)

Hopefully those who have all the Sable volumes will get it for a very nice upgrade price. And those who have 1-x volumes get discounts based on how many they have.


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## pkm (Jun 29, 2016)

I wonder what the upgrade/crossgrade path will be for people with one or all of the volumes of Sable already.

"Spitfire Chamber Strings is a rationalisation of the 'Sable' multi volume range into a more manageable and intuitive format. BUT WITH EVERY ARTICULATION FROM THE ENTIRE SABLE RANGE 1-4 & ENSEMBLES. Presented as a Kontakt Player library so no further purchases are necessary to run the library. We're also proud that it is our first NKS release for use with NI hardware. It features a new 'intuitive' GUI with an inbuilt user manual."


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## ryanstrong (Jun 29, 2016)

OK so it doesn't sound like any new content was recorded or re-recorded?


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## ryanstrong (Jun 29, 2016)

_(I like the color scheme better)_


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## prodigalson (Jun 29, 2016)

this IS Sable.


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## Zhao Shen (Jun 29, 2016)

So they're making the CinePerc move and consolidating it all into a single library. Very exciting but I shudder to think of such a library with the Spitfire price tag.


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## prodigalson (Jun 29, 2016)

Zhao Shen said:


> So they're making the CinePerc move and consolidating it all into a single library. Very exciting but I shudder to think of such a library with the Spitfire price tag.



well you can be damned sure itll be cheaper than if you had bought the full 4 volume library like the rest of us chumps.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jun 29, 2016)

I'm really curious about pricing. Is it a single volume product? Right now their most expensive libraries are 400 pounds but I don't imagine that they'd start selling all of Sable for only 400 pounds. I've been planing to get vol 1 and 2 for a while. Now I'm not sure if this new one will be cheaper than buying both volumes.

Their new product can't possibly be cheaper than the discontinuation sale of the old.


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## mc_deli (Jun 29, 2016)

I have also been this close to 1+2. For someone thinking about pulling the trigger on Sable 1/2 this is obviously a show stopper.

It looks like Sable but better in a box. For NI users. So the big question is: what's the wonga?

Sable complete is now discounted to 839 GBP (EX VAT!).
Is this going to be silly money for the new Sable Chamber strings - is it going to be 1k ex vat plus?
Or is it going to be priced for the prosumer market at 5-800?

Presumably pricing will be announced on 14.7 when Sable dies?
Surely no one would buy Sable now? I won't, even if there was edu on top of the last chance offer price.

This is pretty crackpot product cannibalisation stuff. 
I guess they have spotted the competition and this update will keep Sable as king of chamber strings - so the price tag has to come in at 800-1200... now without the option of buying in smaller blocks... all this says... my wallet is closing :(


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## alexmshore (Jun 29, 2016)

Also curious about this release... I own all the BML range apart from Sable and have been looking to pick it up, but now I am torn whether to just wait for this.

At first glance it seems like it is mainly just Sable 1-4 all bundled into one product if I'm not mistaken, original recordings and all, with a couple of new additions? Looking forward to more details about it anyway!


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## Zhao Shen (Jun 29, 2016)

I wonder if Mural will get the same treatment...


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## Killiard (Jun 29, 2016)

Zhao Shen said:


> I wonder if Mural will get the same treatment...



I'd be very surprised if it didn't go the way of Sable.


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## studiostuff (Jun 29, 2016)

Zhao Shen said:


> I wonder if Mural will get the same treatment...



Ah, man...! Don't even suggest that.  I'm still just dusting Mural off after it's trip across the pond to me. I suppose you're right.


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## mgpqa1 (Jun 29, 2016)

I bought volumes 1 and 2 during the recent Spring Wishfest sale. Was planning to complete the collection over the next 6 months. Not sure I if should put any more money into this now.


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## playz123 (Jun 29, 2016)

Re. "We're also proud that it is our first NKS release for use with NI hardware." my S88 says "thank you". Wish other companies would pick up the pace on this as well. I too will be interested to see what the deal is re. a crossgrade from full Sable to this package. Nice too it is player compatible.


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## Neifion (Jun 29, 2016)

If there is no new sample content and no new scripting, just NKS support, a slightly altered GUI, and Kontakt Player support, I really hope that owners of Sable Vol. 1-4 + Ensembles get this upgrade for free. They even seem to have dropped the outrigger mics for some reason, which alone might make me just hold on to Sable rather than "upgrade".


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## givemenoughrope (Jun 29, 2016)

Spexit?


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## ZeeCount (Jun 29, 2016)

According to the articulations list there is new content in there. For example, they have listed legato flautando and legato con sord, both which were previously not in Sable. Looks like they have combined it all together and added in some new stuff.


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## Neifion (Jun 29, 2016)

ZeeCount said:


> According to the articulations list there is new content in there. For example, they have listed legato flautando and legato con sord, both which were previously not in Sable. Looks like they have combined it all together and added in some new stuff.



Actually, there is legato flautando and legato con sord, as well as all the other "Decorative Legatos" as they are called in Sable.

Also, there is no mention of the Jake Jackson mixes included with Sable. If they are not to be included, along with the outrigger mics, then I don't think I'd upgrade even if it is free.


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## jamwerks (Jun 29, 2016)

ryanstrong said:


> "13 of the finest strings players, playing the finest instruments via the finest signal path in The Hall at Air Studios, London."


I think you mean 16 players, not 13.


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## Confuzzly (Jun 29, 2016)

Im curious if this gives any sort of insight into why there has not been a new BML release in quite a while. The way I see it is that that it falls into two options.

Option 1: The BML line isn't providing enough revenue, thus making this a typical re-branding/consumer friendly price reduction to increase sales and help fund further volumes.

Option 2: In my opinion, the far more likely option is that this has been planned for a while and they are mostly finished with the promised volumes. They are simply waiting to release the woodwinds and brass as all-in-one packages such as this.

I suppose a third option would be that they just haven't gotten to it yet, but that wouldn't be any fun

Of course, this is all speculation based on nothing other than my non-existent business sense, but who doesn't enjoy some aimless speculation from time to time


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## tack (Jun 29, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> I think you mean 16 players, not 13.


13 _is_ what the website says. Maybe they reused some performers between sections? Or math is hard.


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## jamwerks (Jun 29, 2016)

The original 4-volume packaging is a little clumsey now in retrospect. This really seems aimed at future buyers. Strange no more stereo mixes...


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## Saxer (Jun 29, 2016)

Nice update plan... can help to get everything sorted. No more Combination Vol1+3+4 or whatever... just load and play... hopefully without the current CPU spikes! Yeah!


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## tack (Jun 29, 2016)

Saxer said:


> hopefully without the current CPU spikes!


I just wonder how much current Sable bundle owners have to pay for the privilege.


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## prodigalson (Jun 29, 2016)

Confuzzly said:


> Option 2: In my opinion, the far more likely option is that this has been planned for a while and they are mostly finished with the promised volumes. They are simply waiting to release the woodwinds and brass as all-in-one packages such as this.



I have a feeling that this is exactly what's going to happen. I suspect they are rethinking the modular approach in the face of an increasing array of competitive products that are more complete and at a far lower price point. 

I personally am fine with them repackaging woods or brass, for example, into single products...as long as those of us who have purchased the BML line are treated fairly in upgrading. 

At a time when the market is saturated with competition and people like Alex Wallbank are announcing a full orchestral line this very year, I'm not sure now is the time to test the limits of their customers loyalty.

I mentioned here before that I asked an SF employee at NAMM this year about the 2nd volumes of BML and he literally had no idea what I was even talking about. He was genuinely confused. This makes a lot more sense now IF they had made the decision to abandon BML some time ago.


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## brett (Jun 29, 2016)

For those that ask for a free upgrade for existing sable complete owners that's a bit much in my opinion. Currently the whole vol 1-4 plus combo thing is a little unwieldy and so some simplification would be welcome. This is a massive amount of reprogramming I expect, so I wouldn't expect a free upgrade, however I do hope that pricing is generous to existing owners to make the upgrade worthwhile, especially if there's no new content.


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## Red (Jun 29, 2016)

Why would anyone buy this if they have sable already. If the upgrade doesn't include new content, or is over $300 (and that's still pushing it)
then, I don't see a lot of marketing value for this product.


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## Neifion (Jun 29, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> The original 4-volume packaging is a little clumsey now in retrospect. This really seems aimed at future buyers. Strange no more stereo mixes...



I think the absence of the outrigger mics is even more baffling. Sable has them, they have the recordings, so why put in the "CTA" and leave out the "O"?

I get that it's probably aimed at future buyers, and if you don't already have Sable, this is probably a great buy (especially if they lower the price).

However, if they're also intending for current full Sable users to upgrade, I think the cons outweigh the pros. I'd be giving up the very useful Outrigger mic as well as the Stereo mixes in exchange for a more unified UI.

As for asking too much, looking at what is there right now, I don't think so. Lots of companies have offered upgrades that have new sample content and a new GUI (Cornucopia Strings, for a recent example) for free. I know that every company does things differently, and maybe this rebranding did take a lot of work, but what matters on the consumer end is value.

And this seems to be REMOVING sample content (no outrigger mics). And if the rebranding ends up being cheaper than the $1000-plus that people like me paid for the entire Sable line, I think it's pretty crazy to be charging extra to "upgrade".


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jun 29, 2016)

Confuzzly said:


> Option 2: In my opinion, the far more likely option is that this has been planned for a while and they are mostly finished with the promised volumes. They are simply waiting to release the woodwinds and brass as all-in-one packages such as this.



I've always thought that it would be a bit funky with how they'd release the next volumes because I can't imagine it being all that much content so selling the vol 2's separately would have to be very cheap (compared to Mural and Sable where the other volumes are mostly the same price as the vol 1). And in that case you'd question why it wasn't just included in vol 1. Creating a single product would solve this. Hopefully it won't be absurdly expensive compared to other libraries (which you don't feel as much when buying modularly).


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## JohnG (Jun 29, 2016)

I've been very happy with my Spitfire arsenal in general. 

I'm a bit confused by the details of this announcement -- I'm a full Sable owner -- but I expect they will clarify.


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## 5Lives (Jun 29, 2016)

"Spitfire Chamber Strings is a rationalisation of the 'Sable' multi volume range into a more manageable and intuitive format. BUT WITH EVERY ARTICULATION FROM THE ENTIRE SABLE RANGE 1-4 & ENSEMBLES. " - so if I complete my bundle now to get vol 4 and ensembles, why should I pay to get Chamber Strings?


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## JohnG (Jun 29, 2016)

Well, as I said, I don't think their announcement is clear either, but I have not found Spitfire to be at all unfair so I'd wait to find out what exactly is planned before assuming it's bad.


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## Zhao Shen (Jun 29, 2016)

brett said:


> For those that ask for a free upgrade for existing sable complete owners that's a bit much in my opinion. Currently the whole vol 1-4 plus combo thing is a little unwieldy and so some simplification would be welcome. This is a massive amount of reprogramming I expect, so I wouldn't expect a free upgrade, however I do hope that pricing is generous to existing owners to make the upgrade worthwhile, especially if there's no new content.


Don't think that's the point. I don't own any of Sable but I would love to see existing owners get a free upgrade (or partial price based on how complete their collection is) because it's likely that these repackaged Chamber Strings will have a much lower cost than buying all 4 volumes separately. I don't think it's too much for those customers to ask if there is literally 0 new sample content.


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## MA-Simon (Jun 29, 2016)

Zhao Shen said:


> Don't think that's the point. I don't own any of Sable but I would love to see existing owners get a free upgrade (or partial price based on how complete their collection is) because it's likely that these repackaged Chamber Strings will have a much lower cost than buying all 4 volumes separately. I don't think it's too much for those customers to ask if there is literally 0 new sample content.


Don't forget that Sable was not a Kontakt Player library. Developers have to pay NI a fee for player licenses, per each user & matching a percentage of the sales price, so if Spitfire does not actually want to throw away money on this, they need to charge for those upgrades.


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## prodigalson (Jun 29, 2016)

that fee would be like, what? $20-$30 per customer? that's not what people are concerned about. 

Its the idea that the new product could potentially include updated patches with improved programming, bug fixes and new features but with essentially the exact same samples (in other words, an UPDATE) and provided at a significantly lower price than what early adopters originally paid for it. Its understandable that these initial customers would balk at being expected to pay for this product. Hypothetically speaking, if the new product was $600 then that would be as much as half of what early adopters paid for it that more than covers the NI Kontakt Player license fee.

Again, this is all just speculation and hand wringing until we see what SF actually has in mind for those who have already essentially purchased this product


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## 5Lives (Jun 29, 2016)

I wouldn't be mad if the new "Chamber Strings" price is cheaper than all of the volumes previously - that's to be expected. Also, for early adopters, you were able to use the library for all this time, so it's not like you didn't get something for the money. What I'm more interested in is if I complete the bundle now (even with the discount pricing), is that the right move and what will the new product contain and what cost.


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## Spitfire Team (Jun 29, 2016)

Hi guys

Sorry to break rule of posting outside commercial thread but we'll be sure to post full details of x-grades and pricing here first. We're just getting that all together and will naturally represent everyone's interests as best we can. 

The decision to do this isn't just a commercial one it is us listening to hundreds of tickets and comments from customers wanting a simpler solution to the current offering which is very much a lotus leaf like 4 year evolution. All the good bits are there but presented in a more accessible form at every level.

More news on commercial announcements soon!

Best.

C.


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## mickeyl (Jun 29, 2016)

I think it's a good thing. There's a recent trend in consolidating huge - fragmented - libraries, which, in my view, will benefit the users.


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## FriFlo (Jun 30, 2016)

mickeyl said:


> I think it's a good thing. There's a recent trend in consolidating huge - fragmented - libraries, which, in my view, will benefit the users.


Maybe, but don't expect me to pay for a product I already bought! If there is no new sample content and it doesn't look like that, it must be free and I am also not willing to pay the ensembles product in order to receive updates in the future. If any of that is the case, that thing is a rip off again!


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## FriFlo (Jun 30, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Sorry to break rule of posting outside commercial thread but we'll be sure to post full details of x-grades and pricing here first. We're just getting that all together and will naturally represent everyone's interests as best we can.


Ok, crossgrading? So, that is what you call it, when you want more money from your customers for samples they already bought? If that is what it looks like, I am sooo done with Spitfire!


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## jsp21 (Jun 30, 2016)

I never really liked the fragmented setup of Sable and Mural to begin with, so this repackaging is favourable to me—but what the content that was supposed to fill up some of the articulation gap across sections? I can't tell if that's still "missing" or included in this new package. My guess is that it's not.


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## Spitfire Team (Jun 30, 2016)

FriFlo, you haven't seen the deal yet, why are you ALWAYS so negative on threads re. Spitfire, what have we done to make you so unhappy (admittedly I only look at Spitfire threads!). Please please contact me via our support desk so I can see what we can do to make you a more content customer as most Spitfire users are. 

Re. Sable, all we are doing is listening to people's feedback and adjusting the way things are built to make them better, more accessible and not a total PITA every time we need to update this wonderful library. We are admitting that we could have done it better, but its been an evolutionary project, so we have made a better product, and as you will see not only will some customers be getting all of these (two, yes two!) products for free, we will in fact be paying for the Kontakt Player licensing and a totally new download for everyone! I don't see how you can go ranting on without us even having fully announced this yet... There's bug fixes, NKS, better GUI, inline help and soon loads of free tutorials on how to get the best out of the library. 

Sorry I'll get back in my box. This process of evolution is Spitfire spreading love as fellow composers who love this lib more than any other of our string libs but knowing it can be a bit of a pain sometimes... Kind of like a younger sibling, wouldn't dream of abandoning but sometimes you'd wish they'd just behave!

CH.


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## Thorsten Meyer (Jun 30, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> FriFlo, you haven't seen the deal yet, why are you ALWAYS so negative on threads re. Spitfire, what have we done to make you so unhappy (admittedly I only look at Spitfire threads!). Please please contact me via our support desk so I can see what we can do to make you a more content customer as most Spitfire users are.
> 
> Re. Sable, all we are doing is listening to people's feedback and adjusting the way things are built to make them better, more accessible and not a total PITA every time we need to update this wonderful library. We are admitting that we could have done it better, but its been an evolutionary project, so we have made a better product, and as you will see not only will some customers be getting all of these (two, yes two!) products for free, we will in fact be paying for the Kontakt Player licensing and a totally new download for everyone! I don't see how you can go ranting on without us even having fully announced this yet... There's bug fixes, NKS, better GUI, inline help and soon loads of free tutorials on how to get the best out of the library.
> 
> ...



My reaction was simple:
Sable was on my list to buy, however I waited for the next sale. After the announcement and the sale kicking I purchased Sable (complete) today.

Sable was two days ago one of the best String Libraries in it's class, that did not change) 

About the new one I do not worry that I will get some kind of a good deal to cross migrate. Spitfire Audio will announce when appropriate 

Thanks Christian for the Sable discount 

Thorsten


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## FriFlo (Jun 30, 2016)

In all fairness, Christian, I admit I should have waited for the offer to arrive, so I will take it back until then. But as a matter of fact pretty much all SF offerings recently have been quite a disappointment to me. So maybe, that in combination with the teasing of yours has to do with my reaction. And nothing you have done recently would make me think you would not want to charge customers with all volumes except ensembles to recieive further updates. But by all means: please surprise me!
As for my comments regarding SF: they were not all negative. But recently most of them were and I was not the only one complaining, was I? So, let us just see what the future brings.


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## jamwerks (Jun 30, 2016)

@CH

Why not have given all the details at once; product announcement, offers, upgrade schemes, etc. Might have avoided you guys a lot of grief?!


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## procreative (Jun 30, 2016)

I have to say I much prefer the Cinematic Strings/Sonokinetic* way (* apart from the WW library) of just releasing the product. No pre-launch teasers, mis-information etc.

I find developers releasing tit-bits of info counter productive. Yes it generates pages of PR and keeps a thread at the top, but also a lot of misunderstandings, frustration and desperation for the facts.


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## prodigalson (Jun 30, 2016)

As I


5Lives said:


> I wouldn't be mad if the new "Chamber Strings" price is cheaper than all of the volumes previously - that's to be expected. Also, for early adopters, you were able to use the library for all this time, so it's not like you didn't get something for the money. What I'm more interested in is if I complete the bundle now (even with the discount pricing), is that the right move and what will the new product contain and what cost.



noones complaining about not getting value from the money spent, thats ridiculous. And also noone's bitching about the possibility of lower prices for the product. That happens. What IS a concern is the IDEA of having to pay MORE for improvements to the product.

BUT as I already mentioned earlier, and to be fair to Christian, this is all just speculation until we see what they're going to do.


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## Spitfire Team (Jun 30, 2016)

Hi jamwerks - we have always trailed before releasing (HZP we trailed a year before!) so we can get a feeling for expectations, needs and wants. Feedback often gives us a final angle on exactly where we should pitch a price or how the final package should shape up. I think all tech companies struggle with pricing so for us this is a way of listening to feedback before presenting fait accompli... We feel it has worked well for many releases not least the immensely nerve wracking Albion - Albion ONE last year. So as always thanks for your contributions.


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## tack (Jun 30, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> Sorry I'll get back in my box.


I rather hope you stay. I like the idea of developers joining in Sample Talk threads where the dialogue is implicitly allowed to be more broad.

Thanks Christian for chiming in. I'm happy to sit tight and see how the details unfold. The only real suggestion I have is that some of the details might have been fleshed out before the initial announcement, because I think the reaction here on this thread is relatively predictable given the contents of the email that was distributed.

Have you considered assembling an external beta team? This team could provide valuable testing, but also be used as a sounding board for these kinds of product announcements, before it hits the larger public audience.


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## 5Lives (Jun 30, 2016)

I too will be sitting tight until Spitfire unveils all of the details. Hopefully that is prior to the Sable sale ending (which I think would be fair).


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## tack (Jun 30, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> we have always trailed before releasing (HZP we trailed a year before!) so we can get a feeling for expectations


Let me share my expectations then:

If there's no new sample content and this release is primarily scripting and UI improvements, I'd expect a free crossgrade for existing owners of all Sable volumes (excluding Sable ensembles). I don't personally attach much value to Kontakt Player support.

If there are new articulations and especially if there's new sample content, I'd understand a modest crossgrade price for existing owners. OTOH, it looks like some mic positions have been dropped? So you'd need to do something to overcome the feeling that existing customers would be paying for less capabilities.

P.S. Sable is the crown jewel in my template. I gush over its sound.


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## pmountford (Jun 30, 2016)

I find it really bizzar how anyone can 'expect' these things for free. If it's an update that goes beyond what was in the original purchased product description then I certainly don't expect it to be free. Someone has to pay the developers and overheads surely?

On the other hand if CH is reading this thread to gauge feedback to determine future pricing then I demand it to be free and all future SF libraries to be no more than $10 and all updates free, ideally with cashback..


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## ryanstrong (Jun 30, 2016)

The lack of a Outrigger mic alone is enough for me not to want the library, it's my favorite mic position. Not to mention the beautiful CR and Gallery mics in the Alt microphones. So all that said this would be a total _downgrade_ for me.

Why dumb the product down? You have beautiful sample content... just make it _*ALL*_ more intuitive if you are of the spirit of progress. Otherwise I would definitely amend your marketing speak to position this as the more 'consumer version' of Sable. 

That said... if you want positive feedback I would totally be excited about this if you were able to take *ALL mic positions*, and ALL articulations, packaged nicely.

But currently this would be a downgrade as I adore your alt mic positions. Removing mic positions goes against where you've been taking things as a developer, the 'Hans Zimmer way' of having loads of mic positions which I'm a fan of.


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## bbunker (Jun 30, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> Hi jamwerks - we have always trailed before releasing (HZP we trailed a year before!) so we can get a feeling for expectations, needs and wants. Feedback often gives us a final angle on exactly where we should pitch a price or how the final package should shape up. I think all tech companies struggle with pricing so for us this is a way of listening to feedback before presenting fait accompli... We feel it has worked well for many releases not least the immensely nerve wracking Albion - Albion ONE last year. So as always thanks for your contributions.



I think part of the problem with this launch (or pre-launch?) is that there's a call to action (the sale on existing Sable products, and the impending date of removal of Sable from the catalog) without information to guide consumers to the action that fits best with their position. The point of the call to action is to incite movement on the part of the consumer - but without information for consumers to act on, it just creates churn and unrest.

I got the e-mail about Sable's discounting - but I can't act on it because I don't know any number of things. I don't know if there is a path to upgrading or crossgrading, and what sorts of financial gain or loss would come from that. I don't know what the relationship will be between products available now and their replacements are. I don't know what ongoing support will be in place for buyers coming in at the last minute. I don't know what the comparison is between the outgoing and incoming products to know which is actually the best fit for me. I don't know what sort of participation in bundles and discounting offers based on multiple products will be in place for Sable after its discontinuation.

I guess if I was going to sum up, I'd say that my Spitfire e-mail about Chamber Strings has told me to act soon to buy one of two product threads, one of which has a solid history but a nebulous future, and one of which is nebulous in details about content and pricing. How am I meant to respond to that?


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## brett (Jun 30, 2016)

You guys don't know what you're asking for. If you had a sable patch with every articulation and all mic positions the RAM overhead would be huge even fully purged!

Test it with the existing legato combos and you'll see what I mean - and that's on a small scale


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## tack (Jun 30, 2016)

pmountford said:


> I find it really bizzar how anyone can 'expect' these things for free. If it's an update that goes beyond what was in the original purchased product description then I certainly don't expect it to be free.


I only expect bug fixes to be free. If bug fixes are wrapped up in a new product with a nonzero cost and there is no other way to acquire the bug fixes in my existing product, then it begins feeling like vendors are charging customers to resolve defects.

Free updates with new content generate goodwill toward the vendor, however, assuming they weren't previously promised. These kinds of intangibles are hard to quantify but they definitely have value.


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## tack (Jun 30, 2016)

ryanstrong said:


> Why dumb the product down? You have beautiful sample content... just make it _*ALL*_ more intuitive if you are of the spirit of progress. Otherwise I would definitely amend your marketing speak to position this as the more 'consumer version' of Sable.


I agree the outriggers sound great. Perhaps customers are put off by the sheer size of Sable with all the mic positions? It really is a beast. I don't mind personally, because it's a lovely beast, but I can imagine there could be a business incentive to slim it down a bit.


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## Spitfire Team (Jun 30, 2016)

Thanks ryan, you'll see it isn't a dumbing down when we get our PR statement out on the comm thread soon. Several comments on this thread have made us get our big spreadsheet out for a couple of tweaks that benefit anyone interested in cross-grading. I guess it is worth bearing in mind some people do and some people don't value certain aspects of the library and this will gear whether people want to cross-grade or not. I think for most it will either be seen as an absolute bargain, a lovely gift, others as an incentive to 'complete' in the most cost effective way... because as users of all volumes we do think all 5 volumes is the best way to use the lib... to others who'll go, no thanks not worth it, I'm happy with the way it is... Which is fine... Although there may be a new feature that we're going to try and announce before the end of the promo which may make some of you guys "heck, for only ££s its probably worth it". Thats what we're hoping anyway. But as I've said Paul and I have literally had a spreadsheet the size of a map of the world looking at e v e r y possible outcome and working out what is the fairest solution for a b s o l u t e l y everyone. Waffling now... 

My personal feeling from a composer standpoint is quite clearly those who have invested the most into Sable get rewarded the most, those who have invested a little less have to pay a little bit, then its a margin call on their part (I think worth it) those who only have one or two vols now have an excellent couple of options to 'complete' their collections... 

Thanks Tack. It's been kind of fun getting back into the ring here. The Spitfire marketing manager has been on holiday and is going to have a stroke when he reads all this. I'm already preparing the antiseptic cream for when I get drawn across the coals!!! Announcement coming soon... and thanks again, a last minute change happened 'cos of you guys.

CH


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## tack (Jun 30, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> The Spitfire marketing manager has been on holiday and is going to have a stroke when he reads all this. I'm already preparing the antiseptic cream for when I get drawn across the coals!!!


But wait, surely you outrank the Spitfire Marketing Manager.


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## Ashermusic (Jun 30, 2016)

Christian, I don't own any of your libraries, but I admire Spitfire, as I told you at NAMM.

Some words from the late great Rick Nelson:

"Well it's alright now. I learned my lesson well. You see, you can't please everyone so you've got to please yourself."


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## Yogi108 (Jun 30, 2016)

I own the complete Sable. It's great that Spitfire sees how they need to change and update this amazing library based on user feedback, but remember we bought the library before Brexit.

Paying that much for Sable complete is a vote of confidence that the developer will continue to support the library. As stated earlier, more details are needed. I'm confident Spitfire will do the right thing for those who invested such a substantial amount for such a wonderful library. Is Brexit spreading?... Even to VI Control...? From the sounds of it, it's already made an impact... #Sablexit


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## jamwerks (Jun 30, 2016)

I use the stereo mixes for all the BML stuff that it's out on. It would take me 3 x the samples to get the same sound with only C-T-A.

And lots of free stuff has already been given out since the original Sable Vol. I. I'm sure we'll all be happy with the new proposal.


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## tack (Jun 30, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> And lots of free stuff has already been given out since the original Sable Vol.


Fair enough. I joined the Sable party extremely late (only last fall).


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## ryanstrong (Jun 30, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> Thanks ryan, you'll see it isn't a dumbing down when we get our PR statement out on the comm thread soon.



Christian thank you for your response, if this truly isn't a dumbing down, only including 3 mic positions out of 10, as a composer how do you view it.

Again I really do not see why you wouldn't leverage assets you've already paid for/recorded to make a library that much better.

I wouldn't be so moved if you said Sable would continue to live, but saying it's future is dead and then only bringing 3/10ths of it to it's next life is disturbing.

To be clear here are the Mic positions currently offered for Sable for those reading, in italics is what will be missing from Chamber...


*Close*
*Tree*
*Ambient*
_Outrigger_
_Stereo Mic_
_Close Stereo Ribbon_
_Gallery_
_3 x Jake Jackson Mixes_


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## Spitfire Team (Jun 30, 2016)

all will become apparent very soon... just finishing press release now.


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## ryanstrong (Jun 30, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> all will become apparent very soon... just finishing press release now.


Thanks!


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## playz123 (Jun 30, 2016)

On a personal note, I'm really pleased to read your comments, Christian, and do hope some of the sniping that goes on here on occasion won't discourage you from stepping in again in the future. Sadly some other developers disappeared due to that sort of thing in the past, but I also hope that someday they will discover that most of the comments offered on this forum are fair ones, are meant to be respectful, and come from respondents who care passionately about our common interest....music.
What the recent announcement did was encourage a lot of speculation based on only a few facts. Whether that was intentional or not, I cannot say. But the additional information you were able to provide today will, hopefully, encourage further discussions based on facts.
I, for one, have no bones to pick with Spitfire and have always been treated fairly and courteously by your company, and am more than happy with all my purchases. Some updates have taken time, but when they do arrive, they are always worth the wait. Looking forward to learning more about this 'revised' library, and will wait patiently for information to be released. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts with us and, as always, all the best to you and Paul and your team. Cheers!


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## Saxer (Jun 30, 2016)

I'm really looking forward to the update! Soundwise Sable was top notch from the beginning. Content developed over the years to one of the most flexible string libraries (exept section size). The only pita was creating templates because of the overwhelming possibilities. A bit like synths in Reaktor: everybody knows the potential but only a few nerds really dive into. So having a mature GUI and workflow would be very welcome to me.


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## prodigalson (Jun 30, 2016)

I encourage everyone to check out the release. A very reassuring one at that. 

"All current users of Sable will have a discounted crossgrade to both products with owners of all 5 volumes getting both Spitfire Chamber Strings and the Expansion Pack for free. We have also paid for the Kontakt Player license for all existing users and will not pass that cost on to you."

The expansion pack is the Alt mics. 

Thank you for the info Christian/SF. And thank you for including the cost of the K Player license. Much appreciated.


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## mickeyl (Jun 30, 2016)

As someone who could only afford the ensembles, I'm looking forward to that package, since the original Sable 1-4 was too expensive for me. Alas, if only the outriggers could be part of the base package... Oh well.


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## Luke W (Jun 30, 2016)

mickeyl said:


> As someone who could only afford the ensembles, I'm looking forward to that package, since the original Sable 1-4 was too expensive for me. Alas, if only the outriggers could be part of the base package... Oh well.


Mickeyl - I want your opinion on the Sable string ensemble. Sending a PM rather than hijacking the thread.


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## Zhao Shen (Jun 30, 2016)

Wow. That's $500 USD for all of Sable (CTA) with educational discount...


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## RCsound (Jun 30, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> all will become apparent very soon... just finishing press release now.



Now everything gets clear, for new buyers of sable its a nice move and very welcome. Thanks.


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## mc_deli (Jun 30, 2016)

Zhao Shen said:


> Wow. That's $500 USD for all of Sable (CTA) with educational discount...


Where do you see educational discount Zhao?

(Overall awesome news. I commented earlier expecting the price to be double so I am very happy and will be buying. I don't need the extra mics. And the price makes it sooooo easy for me now! Only question is if there is edu discount for us poor impoverished students @Spitfire Team ?????)


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## mc_deli (Jun 30, 2016)

mc_deli said:


> I guess they have spotted the competition and this update will keep Sable as king of chamber strings - so the price tag has to come in at 800-1200... now without the option of buying in smaller blocks... all this says... my wallet is closing :(


Actually I won't be so hard on myself. Chamber Strings maxx will be 900 squid so by next week when the pound is shaved again that'll be 1000 eurons, bang in the middle of my guess.
But where the guys and girls of Spit mansions have really crushed it here is in giving us mere mortals Ram-jam-friendly-Sable with all the artics and less mics for close to 500 euros intro offer - when Sable 1 was 450 euros. My wallet is open like a foyer.


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## Zhao Shen (Jun 30, 2016)

Quite liking how they're giving this library the EastWest treatment with prices according to included mics. The new CTA base price will be a huge game changer for orchestral VSTs. For me personally Spitfire's always been seen as that distant goal because the prices for its orchestral products haven't been particularly forgiving. With this... that's a lot of bang for your buck. 



mc_deli said:


> Where do you see educational discount Zhao?


http://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/chamber-strings/


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## tack (Jun 30, 2016)

Replying from the commercial thread:



jononotbono said:


> I am planning on buying vol 1 - 4. Curiously, is the Ensembles library worth getting? Isn't it just a selection of what you get in vol 1 - 4?


Yes there's really no new content in Ensembles.

I have it because I bought the bundle and, at least at the time, it was cheaper overall to buy the bundle. (Isn't it still the case?) I use it for basic sketching, and it's quite nice for that, although the ensembles patch from CSS is tempting me away.

If you already own Sable 1-4, Ensembles isn't worth the money, in my opinion.


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## jononotbono (Jun 30, 2016)

I mean no disrespect asking whether "it's worth it". I'm sure it's badass but I Plan on buying all 4 so I can just create Multis and get the same thing. I now wonder how much it would cost to upgrade when only missing the Ensembles library. Time will tell. Can't put into words how excited I am to finally be able to afford Sable (in the next couple of weeks)!


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## kevinlee87 (Jun 30, 2016)

Spitfire... I'm Sable 1-4 owner from the beginning. Did you remove all the annoying squeaks from Con sordino, tick noise from Marcato and CPU spikes from Legato in the new Chamber Strings? Is this entirely new recording and script? If these are cleaned up, I'll consider it.


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## Soundhound (Jun 30, 2016)

Are prices up for this? I didn't find a press release, just the announcement email from yesterday?


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## wbacer (Jun 30, 2016)

I posted this in another thread but in case you missed it.

I went back and did the math so depending on the exchange rate,

Before July 14, Sable complete bundle = 839 pounds (approx. $1120 USD) No EDU Discount available

Once released and until the end of July
Chamber strings 412 (Promo) plus expansion pack 349 (no Promo) = 761 pounds (approx. $1016 USD)
Expansion pack available later in 2016.

After the end of July, Chamber strings 549 plus expansion pack 349 (no Promo) = 898 pounds (approx. $1199 USD)
Their website says, "SCS plus Expansion £998)" but I don't think that adds up...

If you want all that Sable has to offer minus the Outriggers, Close Ribbons, Gallery, Stereo, Broad, Medium and Fine Stereo Mixes then Chamber strings at 412 pounds (Promo) (approx. $550 USD) looks pretty attractive and you can always go back later and add the expansion pack with the extra mic setups.


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## Soundhound (Jun 30, 2016)

Thank you very helpful!! Do you have a link for where you got that info?


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## wbacer (Jun 30, 2016)

Soundhound said:


> Thank you very helpful!! Do you have a link for where you got that info?


You can find it here,
http://www.spitfireaudio.com/spitfire-sable-rip-press-release/


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## Soundhound (Jun 30, 2016)

Thank you sir. I wonder what the crossgrade discounts will be, I have just Sable volume 1.


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## Carbs (Jul 1, 2016)

(I initially put this in the commercial thread, but decided against it as I didn't want to break any rules...)

This isn't right. Those of us they purchased sable complete before ensembles ever came out really had NO REASON to buy ensembles. I literally have 10 other libraries (from strings to pianos) that I use/could use for sketching. Including Albion ONE/1. Hell, 90% of the time my go to is a piano included with Logic! 

I didn't bitch when the money I had reserved for spitfire labs libraries up and vanished after spitfire revamped their website, and I didn't bitch that mural evolutions was made super exclusive. I didn't bitch that it took around 2 years to get my BML trumpet corps stereo samples (got em last week!!) - and so I hate having to bitch about this, but man, this really isn't right. This shouldn't be how you treat longstanding customers.


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## ModalRealist (Jul 1, 2016)

Have to say it's exciting to see SF approach their pricing and content in a new way. Cutting mic positions but retaining articulations while lowering prices really makes SCS a terrifically tempting deal for anyone who is interested in deep articulations more than a billion sonic perspectives. I won't lie: if SF created similar Brass and Woodwind sets - CTA mics with all the articulations at a lower price - I'd seriously have to get back into their products. SCS on promo price has just jumped to the top of my to-buy list. I've always wanted all those different legato speeds, but the pricing and mode of packaging just put it outside my reach. Roll on July!


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## jamwerks (Jul 1, 2016)

kevinlee87 said:


> Is this entirely new recording and script? If these are cleaned up, I'll consider it.


New recordings? Have you read any of the info here?


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## procreative (Jul 1, 2016)

This announcement runs the risk of going the same way as Albion ONE/1.

New customers will rejoice at their new found ability to buy in, old customers will feel aggrieved to either feeling they paid over the odds for the original or being charged more because they did not buy the Ensembles.

I think Sable was a turning point for Spitfire, they over promised on content which they later regretted.

I also think Sable and HZP01 as examples, over delivered on Mic positions with way too many choices and GB of data.

Its questionable for existing owners whether this really adds a lot, especially if they have to pay for it. Without much detail to go on, a GUI refresh and Mic position rationalisation alone do not seem very compelling reasons to pay for an upgrade.

On the other hand if there have been some re-edits of sample content and improvements to scripting…

I live in hope they might revamp HZP01 and add Kickstarter to it...


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## kevinlee87 (Jul 1, 2016)

jamwerks said:


> New recordings? Have you read any of the info here?


I don't have time to read every single word here. Anyway thanks for the information. So it is just the same Sable I own. with all the annoying chair squeaks and noises. Hopefully Spirfire remove them.


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## rocking.xmas.man (Jul 1, 2016)

I think the ensembles library is somewhat less understood than Paul and Christian might have hoped for. The Ensembles Library surely is something they came up with because of their workflow - not just to have something for sketching. In many of their videos they are generally working with a two handed string bed first without caring about which section gets which note because in many cases that's not that important. they afterwards enhance this performance with detailed lines of the different sections. This workflow surely speeds up things where a distinction between the sections is not crucial.


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## Luke W (Jul 1, 2016)

I'm considering whether to pickup up the Ensembles at sale price ($250) or just sinking that cash into the promo price of SCS ($550). For you Sable users, am I crazy to spend $250 when $550 gets me everything (minus expansion mic positions)?

(I posted this question in the Commercial announcement too)


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## tack (Jul 1, 2016)

Luke W said:


> I'm considering whether to pickup up the Ensembles at sale price ($250) or just sinking that cash into the promo price of SCS ($550). For you Sable users, am I crazy to spend $250 when $550 gets me everything (minus expansion mic positions)?


Tough question. I think it ultimately depends on how much value you would get from Ensembles. I think Christian said previously he _mostly_ uses Ensembles, while others (including myself) have said it's just a sketching tool and still lean on the sections for real work.

If you're in Christian's camp, it sounds like you could spend $250 and be done with it. But if you want all the sections, it sounds like you're better off waiting for SCS.


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## Luke W (Jul 1, 2016)

tack said:


> Tough question. I think it ultimately depends on how much value you would get from Ensembles. I think Christian said previously he _mostly_ uses Ensembles, while others (including myself) have said it's just a sketching tool and still lean on the sections for real work.
> 
> If you're in Christian's camp, it sounds like you could spend $250 and be done with it. But if you want all the sections, it sounds like you're better off waiting for SCS.



I may well be a user who could be happy with just Ensembles. If it had legato patches, I'd be in. But lack of legato and the fact that the product is technically being retired makes me question whether it's wiser to just go whole hog with SCS. It would completely fulfill my string needs and then some.

Decisions, decisions.


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## Zhao Shen (Jul 1, 2016)

Luke W said:


> I'm considering whether to pickup up the Ensembles at sale price ($250) or just sinking that cash into the promo price of SCS ($550). For you Sable users, am I crazy to spend $250 when $550 gets me everything (minus expansion mic positions)?
> 
> (I posted this question in the Commercial announcement too)


The heart of the question is "legato or nah?"


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## tack (Jul 1, 2016)

Luke W said:


> But lack of legato and the fact that the product is technically being retired makes me question whether it's wiser to just go whole hog with SCS. It would completely fulfill my string needs and then some.


It's not just legato. There are some really nice articulations not in Ensembles, like measured trem, more trill intervals, and a myriad very lovely and usable textures like tremolo con sord sul pont.

I personally would wait, but that's because I know I couldn't be without all those lovely sounds knowing they're there to be had. It's like after I bought my last car and I realized there was an option for heated and cooled cup holders: once I knew that feature was available, it was a source of anguish to be forced to live without it.


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## tack (Jul 1, 2016)

Zhao Shen said:


> The heart of the question is "legato or nah?"


For me, it's legato. I just do not understand the why-bother-with-legatos camp.

Not long ago I mocked up a couple minutes of Appalachian Spring and of course Sable is perfect for that kind of thing. Here is an excerpt from my mockup that I believe makes the case for legato:

https://helix.urandom.ca/public/Appalachian_Spring_mockup_excerpt.mp3

Listen to the celli. Now pay attention to the bassoon, which is so lovely in its highest registers, and the character of its legato transition.

This little clip would be so boring and lifeless without sampled legato transitions. Samples need all the help they can get.


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## FriFlo (Jul 1, 2016)

Spitfire Team said:


> FriFlo, you haven't seen the deal yet, why are you ALWAYS so negative on threads re. Spitfire, what have we done to make you so unhappy (admittedly I only look at Spitfire threads!). Please please contact me via our support desk so I can see what we can do to make you a more content customer as most Spitfire users are.
> 
> Re. Sable, all we are doing is listening to people's feedback and adjusting the way things are built to make them better, more accessible and not a total PITA every time we need to update this wonderful library. We are admitting that we could have done it better, but its been an evolutionary project, so we have made a better product, and as you will see not only will some customers be getting all of these (two, yes two!) products for free, we will in fact be paying for the Kontakt Player licensing and a totally new download for everyone! I don't see how you can go ranting on without us even having fully announced this yet... There's bug fixes, NKS, better GUI, inline help and soon loads of free tutorials on how to get the best out of the library.
> 
> ...


So, Christian, why then did you stop me then and told me to wait for the good news? It clearly looks as I predicted: I have all genuine sable volumes, I just refused to pay for ensembles as it doesn't have any genuine sample content and I refuse to pay for such.
Now, to get continued updates and bug fixes, you urge me to pay an upgrade fee, because I don't have ensembles. That is exactly what I expected and criticized, so I have nothing to take back.
And why oh why do you think I knew right away, that this repackaging would NOT be good news for me? I like to tell you: fool me once ...


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## Zhao Shen (Jul 1, 2016)

tack said:


> For me, it's legato. I just do not understand the why-bother-with-legatos camp.
> 
> Not long ago I mocked up a couple minutes of Appalachian Spring and of course Sable is perfect for that kind of thing. Here is an excerpt from my mockup that I believe makes the case for legato:
> 
> ...


Great little demo! I'm in the "legato is 40% of the reason I even buy these" camp. Don't think I'd have a reason to purchase many new libraries if I was happy with just sustains.


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## scientist (Jul 1, 2016)

fwiw, the various upgrade prices are posted now. http://www.spitfireaudio.com/spitfire-sable-rip-press-release/

imo, as a longtime owner of 1-4, ~90USD to get the revised instruments (including ensembles) and another ~75USD for additional mics seems like a fair deal. i put a ton of time into organizing the current patches to match my workflow, so having it all cleaned up at the instrument level is totally worth it.

my only complaint: assuming that this is a 100% replacement of the old stuff (including sample folder), i'm not looking forward to migrating all of my old projects to the new patches.


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## muziksculp (Jul 1, 2016)

Hi scientist,

Thanks for the heads up regarding the upgrade prices.

Will surely go for the upgrade, since I own Sable 1,2,3, and 4. Not sure I need the additional Mic expansions.

imho. this is a very smart, and very good move by Spitfire, to improve their Sable line.

Their Sable line is one of the most complex, and kind of convoluted libraries to update. I always wished they will consolidate/re-organize it, but wasn't counting on that they will actually do it, so this is great news from Spitfire, and proof they are always trying to improve their products, regardless how hard, or costly it may be. I respect, and Thank them for their dedication to excellence.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## jamwerks (Jul 1, 2016)

tack said:


> ...Not long ago I mocked up a couple minutes of Appalachian Spring and of course Sable is perfect for that kind of thing.


Yes Sable sounds great in that context!


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## 5Lives (Jul 1, 2016)

How do folks like the ALT mics for Sable? I only tend to use C, T, A and haven't tried the ALT / stereo mixes yet. Worth the space and SCS expansion?


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## bap_la_so_1 (Jul 1, 2016)

The problem with Spitfire's libraries is that they provide lots of mics, which take a lot of spaces. I think they should let user decide whether to download additional mics or just get the traditional mics


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## tack (Jul 1, 2016)

bap_la_so_1 said:


> I think they should let user decide whether to download additional mics or just get the traditional mics


Agreed. It happens that they do.


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## Neifion (Jul 1, 2016)

5Lives said:


> How do folks like the ALT mics for Sable? I only tend to use C, T, A and haven't tried the ALT / stereo mixes yet. Worth the space and SCS expansion?



For my full orchestral template I use the stereo mixes exclusively. They're great and I'm definitely thankful to be having them once the SCS expansion arrives.


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## The Darris (Jul 1, 2016)

Okay, maybe this is a little sense of entitlement on my part but I can't help but feel a little hurt by the fact that Ensembles was never sent to the owners of Sable who bought the full range when only Volume 1 was released. I understand that is sits as a solitary library but, it does contain the original samples that I own thus making it redundant, aside from having everything wrapped up into one full range patch. I've had a few conversation with fellow composers who also bought into the full range and are displeased by that move as well. Again, it makes total sense to charge full price for people who DO NOT own any of the Volumes but I feel like they could have at least offered a very reasonable cross-grade option for those of us who invested early on into this series. They included those Ensemble patches into their Albion series at no extra cost, though that may not have been such a big undertaking but I recall some public comments from the SF team saying that they reedited samples to help blend them into an ensemble patch. Sorry to be echoing @FriFlo's concerns but as someone who invested a lot of money up front for the whole series and knowing I have to spend more to keep full support of it, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm looking forward to seeing what options are available soon as well as seeing and hearing the changes made to the series. 
_::waits patiently to be crucified by the entitlement Gods::_


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## Brendon Williams (Jul 2, 2016)

The Darris said:


> Okay, maybe this is a little sense of entitlement on my part but I can't help but feel a little hurt by the fact that Ensembles was never sent to the owners of Sable who bought the full range when only Volume 1 was released. I understand that is sits as a solitary library but, it does contain the original samples that I own thus making it redundant, aside from having everything wrapped up into one full range patch. I've had a few conversation with fellow composers who also bought into the full range and are displeased by that move as well. Again, it makes total sense to charge full price for people who DO NOT own any of the Volumes but I feel like they could have at least offered a very reasonable cross-grade option for those of us who invested early on into this series. They included those Ensemble patches into their Albion series at no extra cost, though that may not have been such a big undertaking but I recall some public comments from the SF team saying that they reedited samples to help blend them into an ensemble patch. Sorry to be echoing @FriFlo's concerns but as someone who invested a lot of money up front for the whole series and knowing I have to spend more to keep full support of it, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm looking forward to seeing what options are available soon as well as seeing and hearing the changes made to the series.
> _::waits patiently to be crucified by the entitlement Gods::_



I'd feel the same way if I were in your position.


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## Scamper (Jul 2, 2016)

Neifion said:


> For my full orchestral template I use the stereo mixes exclusively. They're great and I'm definitely thankful to be having them once the SCS expansion arrives.



How would you compare the M mix to the regular tree mics? I barely notice a difference there, but I would have loved more of the close mics in the M mix to save some resources.


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## Baron Greuner (Jul 2, 2016)

tack said:


> It's like after I bought my last car and I realized there was an option for heated and cooled cup holders: once I knew that feature was available, it was a source of anguish to be forced to live without it.



You've got me worried now.


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## tokatila (Jul 2, 2016)

5Lives said:


> How do folks like the ALT mics for Sable? I only tend to use C, T, A and haven't tried the ALT / stereo mixes yet. Worth the space and SCS expansion?



For me; the outriggers alone (O mics) are worth it and I prefer them to the Tree mics. This is because most film/video game scores have very wide soundstage and Outriggers sound much wider than tree mics.


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## jamwerks (Jul 2, 2016)

The Darris said:


> _::waits patiently to be crucified by the entitlement Gods::_


People that say that are usually just looking to do some e-fighting...


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## TeamLeader (Jul 2, 2016)

We use the great JJ's stereo mixes exclusively here. At least for all the libs that they actually finished them on. Hint hint hint ...


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## ryanstrong (Jul 2, 2016)

I at first didn't think I needed the Alt mics, so I didn't download them the first few months of owning Sable, then I decided to give them a shot and I love them! The Gallery mics are great to almost add a hint of natural reverb, the Outriggers on the other hand get used exclusively.


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## tack (Jul 2, 2016)

I like the sound of JJ's stereo mixes but I have just found one too many problems with them across the BML range that I generally avoid them just to spare the hassle. So I tend to stick to the main CTAO mics. The outriggers are a really nice balance between tree and ambient that you can't really get by mixing T+A. For that "natural reverb" I use the ambients.

If the stereo mics quality was more consistent, I would use them though because I really like the sound.


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## 5Lives (Jul 2, 2016)

Turns out I don't even have the ALT mics installed - just CTAO and the Stereo Mixes. I've never tried the Stereo Mixes, but I suppose they would be good in terms of being lighter on computer resources.


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## Scamper (Jul 2, 2016)

5Lives said:


> Turns out I don't even have the ALT mics installed - just CTAO and the Stereo Mixes. I've never tried the Stereo Mixes, but I suppose they would be good in terms of being lighter on computer resources.



As far as I can judge, the stereo mixes contain:
F (Fine): Using the ALT mics, mostly CR (Close Ribbon) and ST (Stereo)
M (Medium): Mostly Tree or Outrigger sound
B (Broad): Tree/Outrigger with a lot more Ambient mic

Please correct me.
A useful collection, but I'm still curious what the Medium sound is really made of.


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## jamwerks (Jul 2, 2016)

I hear a little Ambient in all of them, with more of course for the broad.


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## The Darris (Jul 2, 2016)

Here is the list of crossgrade paths. I am happy that it will be cheaper for me to wait for the cross-grade versus finishing my bundle now.
[Edit: I read it wrong, it actually won't cost me anymore or less if I were to complete my bundle or go for the Crossgrade option.] https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...ulator-full-crossgrade-details-for-cart-1.jpg


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## FriFlo (Jul 2, 2016)

Do any of you guys understand, what this full upgrade spreadsheet means in regards to the Expansion pack? If you own all volumes except for the chamber strings, would you then have to purchase the upgrade to SCS for 91.44 pounds and then pay another 58,13 pounds to get the full functionality of the expansion back? That would mean 150 pounds for getting continued updates and getting the ensemble patches ... too much IMO.


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## 5Lives (Jul 2, 2016)

FriFlo said:


> Do any of you guys understand, what this full upgrade spreadsheet means in regards to the Expansion pack? If you own all volumes except for the chamber strings, would you then have to purchase the upgrade to SCS for 91.44 pounds and then pay another 58,13 pounds to get the full functionality of the expansion back? That would mean 150 pounds for getting continued updates and getting the ensemble patches ... too much IMO.



I'm assuming you meant Sable Ensembles instead of "Chamber Strings". If you get it during the SCS promo, you would pay 68 pounds not 91. With the expansion pack, that would be 126 total. Given that Ensembles right now is listed at 189 pounds on the Spitfire site (down from 249), that is a saving of more than 60 pounds (and almost 50% off the standard retail price). Up to you if that is worth it to you.


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## The Darris (Jul 2, 2016)

@5Lives; it is actually a dollar for dollar cross-grade for the SCS promo upgrade + SCS expansion compared to the "Complete my bundle" discount for Sable, available now. I believe it is 127 pounds for those who own Vol 1-4 but wish to get the rest of the bundle. So, technically, if I were to buy Ensembles now, via the complete my bundle, I wouldn't save anymore money than if I were to get the promo cross-grade plus the expansion in the future. I could save money by not getting the SCS expansion when it releases but I miss out on the Outriggers which have become a standard option in my current use of Sable. For me, in the end, I feel like I am somehow being overlooked as an early investor. But, that is the way these business decisions go sometimes. At least, for those who own everything, they don't have to spend a dime. That's great.


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## playz123 (Jul 2, 2016)

The Darris said:


> @5Lives; it is actually a dollar for dollar cross-grade for the SCS promo upgrade + SCS expansion compared to the "Complete my bundle" discount for Sable, available now. I believe it is 127 pounds for those who own Vol 1-4 but wish to get the rest of the bundle. So, technically, if I were to buy Ensembles now, via the complete my bundle, I wouldn't save anymore money than if I were to get the promo cross-grade plus the expansion in the future. I could save money by not getting the SCS expansion when it releases but I miss out on the Outriggers which have become a standard option in my current use of Sable. For me, in the end, I feel like I am somehow being overlooked as an early investor. But, that is the way these business decisions go sometimes. At least, for those who own everything, they don't have to spend a dime. That's great.


I concur! (See also posts 93 and 94 @ http://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-audio-sable-r-i-p.54270/page-5 ). If someone doesn't own S 1-4 and the Ensembles, 'you' pay.


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## Neifion (Jul 2, 2016)

Scamper said:


> How would you compare the M mix to the regular tree mics? I barely notice a difference there, but I would have loved more of the close mics in the M mix to save some resources.



Sorry for the late reply. In my opinion, the M mix is quite close to the T. I think I hear a little bit of C and a little bit of A maybe, but it's like 90% T to my ears.


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## Batrawi (Dec 26, 2016)

Am about to buy SCS mainly because of the "performance legato" which -for me- is a dream that finally came true.

Still however I need your feedback guys if the V2, Va and Cb sections work just as well/flexible as the V1 and Vc sections(the only 2 sections that were presented/used in the walkthroughs for performance legato)

Any feedback (short-phrase-demo if possible) would be highly appreciated.


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## Scamper (Dec 27, 2016)

Batrawi said:


> Still however I need your feedback guys if the V2, Va and Cb sections work just as well/flexible as the V1 and Vc sections(the only 2 sections that were presented/used in the walkthroughs for performance legato)
> Any feedback (short-phrase-demo if possible) would be highly appreciated.


I can do this, when I'm back home tomorrow.


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## Batrawi (Dec 27, 2016)

Scamper said:


> I can do this, when I'm back home tomorrow.


Would be very nice of you @Scamper. Thanks!


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## Scamper (Dec 28, 2016)

Batrawi said:


> Any feedback (short-phrase-demo if possible) would be highly appreciated.


Ok, here's a quick live played performance legato demo for each section without optimizing MIDI or CC1. For me, every section generally plays about equally well. Maybe the basses aren't quite up to speed sometimes, but well, they're the basses. I've used the same MIDI data for each section, but had to edit a few tiny things because other sections seemed to react a tad differently in fast passages. Mics are full Close and Tree. Let me know, if you need something else.


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## DocMidi657 (Dec 28, 2016)

You gotta love the Performance Legatos. Sounds great Scamper! Game changer for Spitfire in playability for the Legato patches. So hope they update them in their Brass and add them to their Woodwinds library!


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## Batrawi (Dec 28, 2016)

Scamper said:


>



Excellent. Exactly what I needed to hear, thanks bro!
I agree with you, it's not that crucial for basses, but still they're doing just well (for basses)
@DocMidi657 yes, SF changed the game, a very clever move from them to raise the bar just with scripting without even recording a single new note!


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## Karsten Vogt (Feb 5, 2017)

Got to dig up this thread: did anyone else notice the wrong note playing on G0 and G#0 with the f-Ensembles patch on every second round robin?


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## Kaufmanmoon (Feb 5, 2017)

Karsten Vogt said:


> Got to dig up this thread: did anyone else notice the wrong note playing on G0 and G#0 with the f-Ensembles patch on every second round robin?


Just tried this. You're not going mental. It does exactly that.


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## AllanH (Feb 5, 2017)

the lowest octave in the ensemble patch is nearly useless for me. I also have strange phasing, long release tails etc.

EDIT: the G0/G#0 is an "oldie" and one of the carryovers from Sable Ensemble


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## Matt Riley (Feb 6, 2017)

Here's another problem that I wish they would fix. I've sent bug reports and and they haven't fixed it in two years.


David Lee said:


> There are still bugs on the very lowest notes of the Ensemble patch, long articulation. These bugs only happen with the vibrato (CC#21) set somewhere in between far left (0) and far right (127). (The extremes of both no vibrato and full vibrato work fine, but any mix of them does not.) Below MIDI note A0 is where things get weird.
> 
> Weirdness includes what sounds like both the G#0 and G0 playing when only pressing G#0 or G0, and the sound suddenly dropping way down with the appearance of a high pitch on several of the lowest notes. (This high pitch sounds like one of those high sine wave tones from a hearing test.) This high pitch always or often appears often appears on notes G#0, G0, E0, D#0, D0, C#0, C0. It is clearly a bug and not a part of the original samples, and it is quite annoying.


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## Maximvs (Feb 6, 2017)

Matt Riley said:


> Here's another problem that I wish they would fix. I've sent bug reports and and they haven't fixed it in two years.



+1... They are too interested to bring out new libraries then sorting out the bugs in the old ones


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## Raphioli (Feb 6, 2017)

Massimo said:


> +1... They are too interested to bring out new libraries then sorting out the bugs in the old ones



I wonder if Chris or Paul have anything to say about this. 2 years is extremely long.
Because if this were true, its quite disappointing since I purchased their full Symphonic library and have submitted a bug report.
Fixing bugs is part of the "support" devs need to provide imho and if thats lacking, Symphonic library will be my last purchase from them. Which would be quite unfortunate since the sounds of their libraries are good.


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## Rohann (Feb 6, 2017)

+1 to the above. I'm close to purchasing a string library and a lack of fixes/support with the purchase of a relatively expensive product is a definite turn-off *cough*EW solo instruments*cough* . I'm more and more interested in supporting companies that listen to their customers and give loyalty benefits, rather than "yeah you've already given us money".


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## Zhao Shen (Feb 6, 2017)

Rohann said:


> +1 to the above. I'm close to purchasing a string library and a lack of fixes/support with the purchase of a relatively expensive product is a definite turn-off *cough*EW solo instruments*cough* . I'm more and more interested in supporting companies that listen to their customers and give loyalty benefits, rather than "yeah you've already given us money".



A lot of companies such as Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, CineSamples, etc. have done this at a reasonable rate. You have to remember that these are businesses. They would love to reward their existing customers, but their primary goal is to make a profit so that they are able to pay their employees to go make more awesome libraries for you.


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## galactic orange (Feb 6, 2017)

Zhao Shen said:


> A lot of companies such as Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, CineSamples, etc. have done this at a reasonable rate. You have to remember that these are businesses. They would love to reward their existing customers, but their primary goal is to make a profit so that they are able to pay their employees to go make more awesome libraries for you.


I agree with your point, but 2-year outstanding bugs in a product are far from awesome.


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## Rohann (Feb 6, 2017)

Zhao Shen said:


> A lot of companies such as Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, CineSamples, etc. have done this at a reasonable rate. You have to remember that these are businesses. They would love to reward their existing customers, but their primary goal is to make a profit so that they are able to pay their employees to go make more awesome libraries for you.


Certainly true, and I commend them for doing so. However, when looking to pull the trigger on a big purchase, basic bugs in articulations that are 2 years old and still unaddressed make me (unfortunately) slightly leery about continued updating/support for the instrument.

In terms of "loyalty", absolutely, and I think it's most certainly a two-way relationship. I'm happy to support a company and give them my support if they do so in return. Something I fail to understand is upgrade prices being more expensive (collectively) than retail prices, during sales, etc. Despite being a great company, I've seen this with Toontrack a few times, where one can "upgrade" from EZ Drummer 2 to Superior Drummer 2 for, say, "50% off", but then the full SD2 is on sale for $105 (which is less than an upgrade). I remember reading a few complaints in regard to Sable users from Spitfire. I really have no qualms with them, they seem like a truly fantastic company, but as I said -- unsolved issues are a tick in the "cons" box when deciding what to purchase.


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## Rohann (Feb 27, 2017)

Any fix to the annoying sine wave thing? Trying to use the Ensembles patch and I keep getting that horrid ringing.


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## ctsai89 (Feb 27, 2017)

Zhao Shen said:


> A lot of companies such as Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, CineSamples, etc. have done this at a reasonable rate. You have to remember that these are businesses. They would love to reward their existing customers, but their primary goal is to make a profit so that they are able to pay their employees to go make more awesome libraries for you.



they should all charge just a bit more for the newer products (to be released) as extra funds to have the time to go back to the older libraries to fix the minor or even major issues. It's not a good gesture that it's the old customers that gets left unheard after they supported the companies for for the companies to be able to make more money and continue their businesses.

but again, some of these issues are so small and easily fixed. That leads me to believe that there's a sample library developer conspiracy where the developers competing against each other have agreed to leave all of their products "imperfect" because it would help each of them by creating necessities from customers to buy another library to cover up what was imperfect about the original library he/she/they purchased.

again, it's alll about the money.


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## ctsai89 (Feb 27, 2017)

and i don't know why updates are always named "free" update. All updates should be free regardless unless the product has evolved from for example: cinematic strings 2 to Cinematic Studio Strings. Any updates besides that should be completely... FREE and the word "free" should never be used before the word "update"


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## jtnyc (Feb 27, 2017)

The velocity curves in Albion One still do not work. They acknowledged the issue after I pestered them for a couple of months, but point blank stated that they didn't have any idea when it would be fixed... that was at least 7 months ago. It's not the worst bug in the world, but how complicated can it be to get those curves working? It's clearly not a priority. Releasing 10 or so new products since then is. 

Spitfire are in a league of their own as far as cool, different and very lovely sounding libraries. I really like what they do a lot, but I see many threads about long standing unresolved bugs, and it feels like they release a new library every couple of months. They are not lacking motivation or resources. Someone suggested they charge more upfront in order to be able to fix these bugs. Huh? Really? They already are on the higher side price wise, and deservedly so, but bug fixes for existing customers should be as high on the priority list as new releases are. It's really that simple. Reading that SCS still has legato bugs from 2 years ago makes me not want to go near it, as I have to wonder if it will ever get fixed... 

Tundra demos sound fantastic! I'm hesitant, I just am... Any bad bugs in there?...


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## Rohann (Feb 28, 2017)

I submitted a report for the incorrect mapping of tense longs in the celli folder of SCS so I'll see what happens. I'll do the same for the bass glitch.
I love their products but whether or not they fix issues that make entire patches unplayable will dictate whether I drop another $500 on their products in the future. They've been great to deal with so far so I hope it's the case, but my loyalty will depend on this. To see a small company like Virharmonic delay their free update on their violin because they found a small bug in the engine and want to fix it is something I really admire. Surely Spitfire has the resources to do the same.


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