# Ways to make quick money as a composer



## adam_lukas

Hello guys.
I'm an emerging composer based in Vienna/Europe.
Got my composition diploma in 2012, have already scored some nice film/game projects, commercials, etc. - got my music on TV and worked with live orchestra. From the beginning of my career I knew that also business development is a very very important aspect - so I programmed myself a nice website, connected with people in the film business all over the world and tried to be very active at marketing/promotion.

Sounds great for the start hm? Yup, but unfortunately I'm completely broke.

The costs are exploding - the flat(studio), equipment (you always have to have the newest stuff huh?), website, memberships, traveling to events like festivals, meetings or collaborations, FOOD!?

I fear that I might have to get a part time job to go on. I'm also at the University of music and performing arts, studying musical education. My studies will end in approx. 3 years. Then my financial help from my parents will end and I'll have to work 40 hours to make a living. 
To become a renowned composer and writing music means everything to me, but once I finish my studies and once I start working as a teacher, there will be no more time I can dedicate to my passion - creating music.

So the countdown runs, I got three years from now and I'm scared like shit that I won't make it. I'm a pure optimistic person, but the reality is starting to bother me.
I really need a change right now- I feel I'm stucked and nothing is moving.

Maybe you can share your story, I'd appreciate any input!
Thank you for your time.
Best,
-Adam


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## gsilbers

how about submitting music to music libraries?


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## adam_lukas

Hello gsilbers!
I'm on to it. Got my tracks on approx. 10 royalty free companies, but I'm also working for CouldB Entertainment and such companies in the middle class of the music licensing pyramide. 
I know that I can make some good money out of that... with 300 tracks+ and lots of time.
So I guess in a few years I got that going for me - hopefully


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## HD Audio

Make something that can beat Michael Jackson's songs or Elvis Presley's songs. 
You will be able to make some quick money. 

or alternatively you can try to write a piece that can surpass quality of Chopin's etudes. 
I'm sure it will make you a millionaire very quickly. 

o-[][]-o


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## Nick Batzdorf

Here's the way to make quick money/get rich fast:

Watch what I do with my money very carefully, and do the opposite.


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## JohnG

Prostitution is always an option. Especially if you're willing to do really weird stuff.


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## germancomponist

Buy Loops, recorded phrases, put it together very well and sell it as your own compositions!

Lol, ok, sarcasm off!
o/~ o=<


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## adam_lukas

though my situation is really problematic, i still can laugh about your creative suggestions haha


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## rgames

adam_lukas @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> I fear that I might have to get a part time job to go on.


Why be afraid of a job outside of composing? You know that pretty much every composer in history has done that, right?

As in any business, your product is only part of the reason you get hired. Your ability to get things done is another.

To that end, getting a job outside the music world and learning how to get things done as a member of a network is a skill that applies to any job you care to take. So think of the day job as an opportunity to master those skills while you're building your network within the music world. Then when the opportunities start to come in, you'll be a task manager extraordinaire.

Now here's the harsh part: nobody has a right to make a living as a composer any more than anyone has a right to make a living running a restaurant, or a bike shop. People try to run restaurants and bike shops all the time and most of them fail. Likewise, most people who try to make a living as a composer also fail. In fact, most businesses of any kind wind up as failures. Chase your dreams, sure, but don't burden the greater society while you're doing it. The best way to do that is to keep a day job until you're secure in your composing business.

rgames


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## germancomponist

adam_lukas @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> though my situation is really problematic, i still can laugh about your creative suggestions haha



O.k., without joking: Make something special, something what was never heared, mak an new (your own) style.... .


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## HD Audio

How to get a record deal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfCmoEixxro


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## Markus S

Some artist swear by the lottery..


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## Ozymandias

Hilariously, Sound On Sound once printed an article on making a living from media composing that essentially advised people not to become media composers. :lol: 

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec05/a ... icture.htm

I still read it every so often. Gotta keep that optimism at bay.


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## adam_lukas

I appreciate your suggestions - I notice that those are mainly long term goals. Is there nothing a qualified composer can do to get some instant money? That's sick haha. I mean - I could apply for a bartender job tomorrow, go to work and get some money.
There no such thing a composer can do, not a single one. It's all about long term goals.
I do not find this wrong or something - it's just.. interesting.

Maybe a market gap?!
Let's start a business where composers log in and do some arranging/synth programming/mixing for an hourly rate.

Maybe a stupid idea.. But maybe an idea stupid enough?


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## adam_lukas

PM me if you want to start a business haha


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## Reegs

How about giving music or composition lessons? 

As a music student, I assume that you play piano, guitar, or another instrument at an above-average level. It's reasonable to charge US$20-25 per half hour for younger students whose parents are happy to get them into music. And having a music degree is an advertising point that separates you from other people who give lessons. 

It's also locally based, easy to start, and you can build a self-referring client list. (Also largely a cash business.)


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## JohnG

here's some advice from another member, posted some time ago. I think it's good advice.

"i need to work, in order to proceed: 
work. 
i need to write. 
i need to write, play instruments, conceive ideas, play "live", record, play for others, etc etc etc. 
i need to write, in order to keep any possible doors of inspiration opened..... 
or get new or old ones to open, if they seem shut-to-me. 

i need to read books, walk, cook & shop for the ingredients i'll be cooking, listen to inspiring music, as well; 
i need to walk --- i write some of my best material, while walking quietly: 
even loud, bombastic, noisy stuff. 

i need solid, somewhat regular contact with my family & friends. 
i need contact with folks i dig who work in the same fields as me. 

i want new things, new purchases, new instruments (real, & virtual), 
but do not need them; 
the other things are the necessity. 

not everything i write is capable of being brilliant; 
however, when "jobs" are slim..... 
i find it necessary to write for myself, for unknown or somewhat random reasons: 
not writing models of "other music i've heard", written for primarily "professional" reasons: 
screw that, i say! 

inspiration requires its own kind of work, and some serious coddling & care: 
invite it back, as craftily, lovingly & beseechingly as you can; 
it's there, somewhere..... simply waiting. 

imo. 
ymmv, unless you never drive.
----------------------------------------------------

poseur


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## José Herring

Composing and quick money are terms that I rarely see together.

For me personally the quickest money came not as a composer but as an arranger. I eventually gave up arranging and I've been sorry ever since.

Find a pop or rock artist in your area with a record deal or touring dates and sell your services as arranger/conductor. Easiest money I ever made in the music business.


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## Waywyn

adam_lukas @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> I appreciate your suggestions - I notice that those are mainly long term goals. Is there nothing a qualified composer can do to get some instant money? That's sick haha. I mean - I could apply for a bartender job tomorrow, go to work and get some money.
> There no such thing a composer can do, not a single one. It's all about long term goals.
> I do not find this wrong or something - it's just.. interesting.
> 
> Maybe a market gap?!
> Let's start a business where composers log in and do some arranging/synth programming/mixing for an hourly rate.
> 
> Maybe a stupid idea.. But maybe an idea stupid enough?



1. If there would be an option to make quick money as a startup, LOTS of startups already would have taken advantage of this opportunity and it would have probably dried out until now!

2. NOONE would tell you about a possible marketing gap on a public forum, because this would be basically like wasting a genius idea or a lot of income!

3. Your business idea about a place to login and have people work for a hourly rate is called telephone. You pick it up and call people who either work reliable or are known for their expertise! Of course the more modern approach would probably be Facebook and the likes (and even on FB there are addons which only list studio musicians/composers and the likes)


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## handz

JohnG @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> Prostitution is always an option. Especially if you're willing to do really weird stuff.



This looks like the best advice so far, and most easy to do.


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## Blackster

I'd like to add something to the post from Alex. Your idea is already reality and it's a few years old ... :D ... one example of what I mean is www.odesk.com 

I used to hire some audio engineers there to do some cutting and editing work for me.


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## cc64

Markus S @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> Some artist swear by the lottery..



Yes! The SOCAN/ASCAP/SACEM/GEMA/PRS etc... Lottery ; )

Claude


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## germancomponist

handz @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> JohnG @ Sat Sep 06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prostitution is always an option. Especially if you're willing to do really weird stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This looks like the best advice so far, and most easy to do.
Click to expand...


Lol


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## Daryl

Stop worrying about making a living full time as a composer. Get a proper job, work as a composer in your spare time, and when there are enough Royalties coming in to take the risk, jack the full time job in.

There are plenty of ways to make money out of music, but for all of them you need a credit list and experience, so in your shoes you need to build up both of these.

D


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## Cruciform

Ozymandias @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> Hilariously, Sound On Sound once printed an article on making a living from media composing that essentially advised people not to become media composers. :lol:
> 
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec05/a ... icture.htm
> 
> I still read it every so often. Gotta keep that optimism at bay.



That's brilliant. I never realised Hilgrove was such a comedian. I need to go compliment him


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## Daniel James

Keep in mind quite a few people on this forum make money from more than just writing music. My income spreads among: composition, library music, sample libraries, bespoke sound design, Youtube, royalties. 

As you can see not all are composition based but I tried to keep it all as musical as possible. I really recommend taking the time you are financially supported to establish yourself. 

There are far to many composers just like you out there to sit back and expect people to notice you because of your website or demo reel. Why should they hire you, what makes you special, why do you stand out compared to the thousands of others just like you....these are the questions you need to know how to answer, because one day you may be in a position where you need to prove them to someone else. So take these 3 years and make sure you can answer and back up these questions.

Good luck 

-DJ


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## clarkus

"How about giving music or composition lessons? " is good advice. That's how I've done it. I actually coach jazz ensembles, which means the money is better than is typical. With an advanced degree (which I don't have) there are sexier jobs yet. But they come with more responsibilities & headaches, of course.

Running in the background of the Sound on Sound article is the fact (isn't this true? I think so) that the young man had started a family with his wife. In any event if you have NOT done that, and you really want to pursue commercial music, I think it's no more or less a gamble than any number of things. If you have, or are planning to have a family, it seems a bit like being a professional blackjack player. A few people clean up, some get by, and many go broke quickly. I hope I'm making my point regarding family: one is more justified playing long odds if you have no dependents. And (an equally important factor) kids take time.

Life is what's happening while you're busy making other plans, as John Lennon famously said. I think it's critical to have some way to make a halfway decent living that you like alright while you are pursuing what can (or could) turn into something worthwhile and rewarding. 

You're asking a great question. One that deserves to be asked here. And answered thoughtfully. I don't know what the percentages are, but I think you have an inordinately large percentage of people on this forum (including me) that make their living in some way from music. It's a skewed data-base. Other readers of this forum are hoping to get work doing soundtracks & so on, of course, and get a bit of a thrill reading notes from people who actually do it, but inevitably - because of the role that luck and talent both play - will be hobbyists for years, or will always scuffle & not find their way up any sort of ladder. 

By contrast, not all programmers make a killing: most do okay. Few (if they actually have the skills) perish. There is simply more need in this world for skilled programmers.

One last thought ('cause I'd feel wrong by not saying it): music is sublime. If you love it and can stay in it and find ways to compose & get your music played without getting cynical or desperate, you've won the game.


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## Jdiggity1

Teach, orchestrate, transcribe, work as a copyist, and win competitions.


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## mscottweber

I make a (modest) living through a combination of composition/sound design, audio engineering, teaching private lessons, and performing live. I think that, at least as you start your career, diversification is the key to making a living in music.


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## JT

I would suggest that the remaining years of college, you expose yourself to as many different aspects of music that you can. I'm a firm believer in diversifying yourself to wear as many different musical hats as possible.


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## adam_lukas

The thing is- I'm not a lazy person - definitely not, but I'm kind of picky with my projects. Submitting music to libraries was a huge step for me - I did not want that for a long time since I wanted to concentrate on scoring projects like movies (short, feature, whatever), games and other media.

I'm having trouble with diversifying too - since I try very hard to develop my own writing style.

I'm a dreamer haha. I thought I will get out there and score beautiful projects, work with talented people from the film biz, etc.
Now I woke and I realized that no one gives a shit about my dreams and plans - and I can't blame them for that - how could I?

What I can say from my current standpoint:
work very hard, be always on the prowl for projects that give you a lift and great exposure.
Market yourself wisely (to the FILM PEOPLE, not other composers) and stay true.
I just can't score shitty projects or work for dubious companies.

I've had a discussion in another forum a few years ago and I was surprised how many composers would do a commercial for a company like Nestlé, that says access to water is not a human right, just because 'the price was right'.

Thanks for your input so far. Teaching seems to be the right way definitely, arranging, orchestrating too. Music libraries too. I guess I just have to get in touch with more people and be not so picky on my projects, if I want to have more cash in my pocket,


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## Saxer

if you need fast money out of music you have to teach and play live. this are the only music jobs i know where you get paid directly after doing your job.


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## Daryl

Adam, if you are going to be "picky" forget about being a commercial composer. We all have scruples, but I bet you that most people set the bar far lower than they would like. For example, every time you score an "orchestral" project using samples you are depriving musicians of work and contributing to the downslide of the industry. However, that doesn't stop people doing it, because it is all that they can get.

In your shoes I would put together a list of what my skills were in music and first of all see if I could make a living using just those skills. Not for the future. Now. If it is not possible, get a proper job. I didn't start to write for the commercial sector until I was mid-thirties, so there is no age limit, unless you want to be in the cool/hip/trendy/happening brigade, in which case you need to make your money before you hit 30, because you won't get any work after that. :lol: 

I would also make a list of what I'm prepared to write music for and see how large or small that list is. I'm totally with you on the morality thing, BTW. There are certain sample companies that I won't buy from and when buying equipment I try to buy from companies who do the least damage. However, it is not easy, and sometimes principles have to be bent in order to achieve a worthwhile goal. All about tradeoffs, I'm afraid. You need to find where your "line that can't be crossed" is and stick to it. this may mean that you won't be a composer. Are you happy with that?

Good luck.

D


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## germancomponist

adam_lukas @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> I've had a discussion in another forum a few years ago and I was surprised how many composers would do a commercial for a company like Nestlé, that says access to water is not a human right, just because 'the price was right'.



I had a similar discussion in a "composer"group on facebook. I was laughed at and ridiculed, because I never would do such a job.


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## adam_lukas

@germancomponist
I'm pretty sure we mean the same discussion/group


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## germancomponist

adam_lukas @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> @germancomponist
> I'm pretty sure we mean the same discussion/group




I left it also for some other reasons...... .


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## adam_lukas

You can't be the perfect person in this world. But I guess there are some things one should avoid, because they do harm.

Big companies like food chains can be a huge credit and great exposure. But one has to keep in mind that you give your name for this project - you help building it up.

The thing is I work on an Apple Mac Pro so I should better shut up before I'm starting to moralize here


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## AC986

adam_lukas @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> Hello guys.
> I'm an emerging composer based in Vienna/Europe.
> Got my composition diploma in 2012, have already scored some nice film/game projects, commercials, etc. - got my music on TV and worked with live orchestra. From the beginning of my career I knew that also business development is a very very important aspect - so I programmed myself a nice website, connected with people in the film business all over the world and tried to be very active at marketing/promotion.
> 
> Sounds great for the start hm? Yup, but unfortunately I'm completely broke.
> 
> The costs are exploding - the flat(studio), equipment (you always have to have the newest stuff huh?), website, memberships, traveling to events like festivals, meetings or collaborations, FOOD!?
> 
> I fear that I might have to get a part time job to go on. I'm also at the University of music and performing arts, studying musical education. My studies will end in approx. 3 years. Then my financial help from my parents will end and I'll have to work 40 hours to make a living.
> To become a renowned composer and writing music means everything to me, but once I finish my studies and once I start working as a teacher, there will be no more time I can dedicate to my passion - creating music.
> 
> So the countdown runs, I got three years from now and I'm scared like shit that I won't make it. I'm a pure optimistic person, but the reality is starting to bother me.
> I really need a change right now- I feel I'm stucked and nothing is moving.
> 
> Maybe you can share your story, I'd appreciate any input!
> Thank you for your time.
> Best,
> -Adam



You're' an emerging composer in Vienna?

Got your composition diploma in 2012?

Get your music on TV?

Unfortunately you're completely broke?

Cost are exploding?

You may have to get a part - time job?

Your parents have given up on you financially?

Writing music means everything to you?

Your life will end when you start working as a teacher?

All this has scared the living shit out of you?

And finally, but not leastally, you feel stucked?

(I felt stucked with nothing moving once and wound up at the doctors)

The rest of you guys. Any of this sound vaguely familiar? :lol:


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## adam_lukas

So I guess.. no special case? 
That's why I wrote 'share your story'. 
A sorrow shared is a sorrow halfed haha


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## AC986

adam_lukas @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> So I guess.. no special case?
> That's why I wrote 'share your story'.
> A sorrow shared is a sorrow halfed haha



It certainly is but there's no need to get despondent. It's usually the normal progress of events early on.

What tends to happen in the world of music is, as times goes on, you will find a niche. And then as time passes some more you find another niche. And so on.

And incidentally, it doesn't matter how good you are either. That's a fallacy. It's more to do with stickability as in just about anything. Even crap teachers become headmasters if they stick at it long enough.

Just try not to get stucked. :lol:


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## Daryl

adam_lukas @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> The thing is I work on an Apple Mac Pro so I should better shut up before I'm starting to moralize here


Exactly......

D


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## Daryl

adam_lukas @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> So I guess.. no special case?
> That's why I wrote 'share your story'.
> A sorrow shared is a sorrow halfed haha


Maybe, but you haven't once said what your skills actually are. A composer? So what. Everyone is a composer. What music skills do you have and what level of experience in any of them. That information is what will enable people to give you some useful hints.

I could tell you my story, but it would be of no use to you, because it's unlikely that we have exactly the same skill-set.

D


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## Guy Rowland

Loads of good advice here. I have two broad income streams - music and audio, but only audio is quick money. Music is 95% slow money, but it's pretty good money (I do kids tv). Stuff accumulates over the years. So those library tracks you have now will probably start to he useful around about 2019, and the more you have the more you'll make (if you're with a good library).

So keep that going, and keep on the lookout for scoring jobs on shorts etc. So now you need that fast income stream. Others have said it well - in music that means teaching or playing live. If for whatever reason those aren't options, you need to look outside music and find something you can do that pays by the hour. As the years go by, you can hopefully start to shift that balance more towards music as the slow income starts to build.


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## vlad

Mozart gave piano lessons to spoiled rich kids. In Vienna btw.


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## bbunker

Quick money in music? Go to the Stadtpark, get out whatever the heck it is that you play when you aren't writing notes on yer paper, and play something to make people want to give you money.


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## Hannes_F

bbunker @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> Quick money in music? Go to the Stadtpark, get out whatever the heck it is that you play when you aren't writing notes on yer paper, and play something to make people want to give you money.



Worked for me when being a student.



adam_lukas said:


> the flat(studio), equipment (you always have to have the newest stuff huh?)



:shock: 

You have to have?
This also works for me: Only spend money that you already have. Even better: Spend money for new equipment only after you earned it with the old equipment.


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## wst3

the standard answer to the oft asked question:

"How do you make a million dollars in the music/audio/theatre business?

"Start with two!"

Funny, yes, and sadly not entirely in jest.

My story, since you asked, and maybe it will help...

When I went to college (a long long time ago) I accepted my parents and teachers advice that music was kids stuff, and I needed to grow up. That advice was not given out of malice, but rather genuine concern, I needed a real job.

I sold most of my gear, and even ended up at a college that had no music program to speak of.

So guess what happened... yup, I ended up writing drills for the college marching band, put together a college jazz ensemble, became chief engineer and later GM at the college radio station, and did sound and lighting design for the theatre company. Guess it wasn't out of my system after all?

After college I worked in a number of 'regular' jobs, mostly centered on commercial and professional audio, but the really telling thing was I've operated a side business pretty much since college. That business has provided me with the income necessary to chase my dream, or indulge my fantasy - your choice.

That wasn't the intent of course... but before I knew it I had a couple of synthesizers and a four track cassette recorded in my bedroom. Then MIDI came along and I found a MIDI keyboard and drum machine in there. You know the progression...

I started doing studio maintenance, graduated to studio design, and then that market disappeared. So I started doing circuit design for audio products. That's still pretty helpful. I also consult on product development for both hardware and software.

And I do music composition and sound design for live theatre - mostly community theatres, meaning little or no compensation, but my catalog grows with each production. And I teach, and gig when I can.

Along the way I had some success writing jingles for local advertisers as well. That was a lot of fun, and more lucrative than I would have imagined, but alas that's another market that I entered a wee bit too late.

A slew of income sources, all feeding my need to create music. It works for me. In fact my studio was built almost entirely from gear that was discarded by clients. It didn't work, but I could fix it. Not really an income stream, but a huge savings. (Remarkably, the studio still exists, although most of it is boxed up until I can build a new space.)

Would I have been happier, or more successful had I taken another route? I'll never really know, my guess is more successful, yes, happier, unknown.

I have a wife I love, four kids I adore, a day job I enjoy that keeps me challenged, and the roof over our heads, and a hobby/part time income source that supports my habbit and keeps me from going crazy.

The thing my parents and teachers did not understand 40 years ago was that music was never a choice. It is something I need to do.

My path may not work for everyone, but it works for me. Hopefully there is something in there that will help you find your path.

The only other advice I'd like to underscore is from Hannes - "Spend money for new equipment only after you earned it with the old equipment." - I know my life improved (or at least my stress decreased) when I started following that advice!


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## clarkus

Hello, Adam. I may be in a minority, here ( I don't know but I'll find out, won't I?) In that I think it is perfectly fine, and even admirable, to consider who you are working for, and if they are engaged in practices you find abhorrent, to decline a job.

It's a deep topic, of course, because to live and work and consume in today's world is to be complicit in all sort of horrendous things, and one needs to draw the line in a place where one can still function.

In any event, where I think you'll get less sympathy on this forum is with the position you articulate wherein you're willing to do X but not willing to do Y because you feel the work is beneath you: the decision there has to do not with what is morally suspect but with what you consider demeaning, silly work.

Most of us have done demeaning, silly work along the way. There are rich kids who get to do exactly what they want, up to a point, and never have to labor in the trenches, so to speak, but I believe they do themselves a disservice. 

If you are willing to do work (even underpaid work, or work that's not exactly what you hope for) in your field, you increase the chances by some significant multiple that you will be employed and be employable in the future. You create a portrait (in your resume) of someone who is versatile, and not afraid to get your hands dirty. And you'll learn a lot along the way that makes you more fit for what you do.


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## adam_lukas

Thank you all for your numerous tips and insights 

I think that ethical thing deserves it's own topic here on viControl, but I won't start it. I did it once in another group as mentioned before and it turned out people really hating each other. 

There's definitive a lot a musician/composer can do to get his money, but it's not the easiest way on earth to make a living of..


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## Blackster

If you want to have an easy life, go to McDonalds and get a job there! Probably you'll make more money in the first years, too! :D ...

edit: I should have mentioned that Adam and I know each other in person for quite a while. Otherwise I would not have written such a cheeky thing


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## karelpsota

I'm considering gogo dancing at a nightclub.

- You get to see how people react to music, thus enhancing the understanding of human behavior.
- It will also improve your conception of sub bass (and mixing in general)
- It keeps you up to date with the effective chord progressions.
- A flexible body = a flexible mind.
- And finally, the confidence you acquire with your self is re-used while networking.

Ok, I'm out ~o)


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## Hannes_F

karelpsota @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> I'm considering gogo dancing at a nightclub.
> 
> - You get to see how people react to music, thus enhancing the understanding of human behavior.
> - It will also improve your conception of sub bass (and mixing in general)
> - It keeps you up to date with the effective chord progressions.
> - A flexible body = a flexible mind.
> - And finally, the confidence you acquire with your self is re-used while networking.



Better still is DJing. I do that a lot.


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## adam_lukas

haha blackster. indeed!
you already made it, well deserved! 

But I have to confess I like the Gogo dancing idea too. But damn- can't dance, flat chested too.. this could get complicated..


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## The Darris

adam_lukas @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> But damn- can't dance, flat chested too.. this could get complicated..



Not really, I'm sure there is an app for that already and if there isn't, you should make one. I'm sure that would make you a lot of money. :wink: 

In all seriousness, to answer your question in the subject: The money I have made on my music stems from having a good relationship with people who need music written. It is related to 'who you know' but just because you may know someone doesn't mean that will get you paid. It has helped me to actually have a good working relationship as well as someone who they consider a friend so to speak. If you are a person who is approachable and fun to work with, then odds are in your favor to get paid for your work. In time, those relationships will stem out to other contacts and create more work but you have to plant the seeds first. I am far from a 'working' composer but for the gigs I get paid for, they are reoccurring clients who like my style and in their words, "Enjoy working with me." The door swings both ways as I continue to work for them because they are great to work with as well. I think this is why you see many composer/director collaborators in the main stream like Elfman/Burton, Zimmer/Nolan, etc. I'm sure others have their own formula for getting money but for me it is about making money on something I love and I personally want to enjoy it. Part of the enjoyment is working for people I like to be around and talk to.

Good luck,

Chris


----------



## wst3

clarkus @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> Hello, Adam. I may be in a minority, here ( I don't know but I'll find out, won't I?) In that I think it is perfectly fine, and even admirable, to consider who you are working for, and if they are engaged in practices you find abhorrent, to decline a job.<snip>



I doubt you are in the minority here at least, and even if you are, well, there is no need to apologize for that. FWIW, I am right there with you.

(also FWIW, violated my own rule once - learned the hard way that you really do reach a point where you can not look in the mirror without flinching. Not good!)


----------



## MichaelL

adam_lukas @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> To become a renowned composer and writing music means everything to me, but once I finish my studies and once I start working as a teacher, there will be no more time I can dedicate to my passion - creating music.




So, what you are saying is that you are more interested in being a famous composer than in merely earning a living as a composer?

I'm not sure why working would prevent you from achieving renown. http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Charles_Ives


----------



## Dean

adam_lukas @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> I fear that I might have to get a part time job to go on. I'm also at the University of music and performing arts, studying musical education. My studies will end in approx. 3 years. Then my financial help from my parents will end and I'll have to work 40 hours to make a living. To become a renowned composer and writing music means everything to me, but once I finish my studies and once I start working as a teacher, there will be no more time I can dedicate to my passion - creating music.
> So the countdown runs, I got three years from now and I'm scared like [email protected]#t that I won't make it. I
> -Adam



EDIT: I meant to say,...just go for it.  (my original comment was a tad blunt to say the least.) D

Are you f***ing serious?
If music really means everything to you then none of this crap should make any difference! Grow a pair,suck it up and make it happen! D


----------



## MrLinckus

Hi Adam,

i was in nearly the same situation as you are in now. I totally had no idea how my future will going to be. But you know what? i never gave up. I'd ask many of my composing friend what i could do because i also fell into a deep depression that time, i was not good to speak with. Now we have 8 Month later and i'm doing fine, things are much better now. 

You know i did not have the chance to teach an instrument (because i can't play any!) but i would could i would because i know between my projects i have time to do so and every extra money is good. There are many possibilities to earn money but quick? forget it.

In my case it turned out well yet and of course i don't know whats up in 2 years or so. But i got chances this year i never thought i would get.

One big tip for you ... NEVER give up. Its nothing wrong asking other composers to help you, some might not and some did!

If you love music, why you are here and discuss that? Go on and create music, bring it into good libraries and they may sell good! Try everything possible and you when you can play an instrument well or very good... f*cking teach it! Thats fixed money! You will find students and you know the good thing? they will make you even better!

What i want to say is... DONT give up on anything. But being just a composer who wants to do what everybody wants is hard. There are a lot of great composers out there... why the hell should a director for a blockbuster who don't even know should choose you? Why not Dean, or MichaelL or Blackster or whom ever here? ...  i hope you get what i want to say. You will sure get your chances but you can not have it in one or two days.

If you love music... everything whats to do with music should bring you joy and the best, you don't have to give up creating some. 

best,

-FL


----------



## Christof

Lukas, I am with MrLinckus, it takes patience and endurance, everyone went through that, from Arnold to Zimmer.
There is noting wrong in getting another part time job, I would suggest piano lessons, there is a huge market here in Vienna.
I remember being in a similar situation, but I was lucky enough to work as cellist as well, but I played gigs that I hated, like tourist concerts and weddings (background dinner music).
I know you and your work, as person you shouldn't have problems to get composing gigs, same with your musical skills.

If you have time, read this thread, it's quite long but contains some useful information:
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29524


----------



## Ryan

Get a part time job like everyone has to do once a while. There is no problem in doing that.

Other tips: Make good music, get contacts etc. 

I just licensed a score to Samsung. So that is a BIG bonus check on top of my monthly income from my part time job as a teacher.


----------



## nikolas

Adam, 

From your initial, opening post:

1. Cut down on expenses. No memberships anywhere (never needed them personally, but not saying that one doesn't need them... just that if there's not enough money to go around). No separate flat for your studio: Go back to being a bedroom composer. No moving around away from home to meet others: Yes, networking costs, but do an offset and check if you're earning more than you're spending. No FOOD (ok kidding here). 

2. Think macro, not micro! See what you will be doing in 3 years, how you will be competing with the rest of the industry.

3. Try to compose for whoever and whatever. They need baby music? Baby music it is... and so on.

4. Cut down on software/hardware purchases! Yes in high class situations you do need the latest gear and samples, but I don't think it's that urgent. At least it's not working out this way for me... Not that I'd be stuck with some outdated GPO version, but just saying...


----------



## MrLinckus

You know what, i do spend less money on equipment, because first comes my living! If i can't pay my rent i can't buy any stuff i may don't need right now, why should i?

I'm working currently with nearly 10 Libs... i don't need 100s of Libs i may never use... so i did not spend money for things i don't need. That should be also very important for you. I bought my first audio monitors in June this year... after years working as composer... i simply did not had the money for it. I could live from my music yes, but very poor. Now i spend from time to time when i know i need it and put everything else for backup, because i don't know the future and it may be possible to live from that one day because i may have no music jobs... happily this time its fine, next project is in the line and future some to come, but who knows... something can happen everytime...

-FL


----------



## cmillar

Fall in love with someone that makes great money and has a stable job!

Hopefully, someone that fully supports your dreams and ambitions.

(You're young..... think I'm joking? Not.)
(hmmm....ever wonder why most ballet dancers are married to doctors, and not musicians?)

LOL.... sort of?

Really, most of us here who are old enough to have been married at least once or twice all know of other musicians that have seemingly had an 'easier time of it', perhaps, due to their living conditions and choice of significant other.

It's hard to be productive and active when you're always struggling to pay the rent and put food on the table when your partner is having doubts about your choice to be a composer or musician of any kind.

BUT.... if you're lucky enough to share your life with another creative person or someone that will really stick with you through thick and thin, then you will indeed have a rich, fulfilling life and are indeed a very lucky person.

I'm married to a modern dancer, teacher, choreographer. As she says, that's about a step up from a poet on the monetary scale and food-chain. 

We have our ups and downs, but we stick at it because we have many more creative years ahead of us.

And, the "harder we work, the more successful we become".

You have to love what you're doing. It sounds and looks like you really do already! Great!

You can't measure all of life in terms of monetary success... but, like I said, if your partner has a steady gig, then that will be the 'quickest way to make some money'!
(..... in a 'round-about sort of way!)


----------



## The Darris

cmillar @ Tue Sep 09 said:


> Fall in love with someone that makes great money and has a stable job!
> 
> Hopefully, someone that fully supports your dreams and ambitions.



Actually, this is me to the tee. When my wife and I met, I was just starting school with the vague idea of doing music. When that didn't work out, I joined the military and she continued on through her schooling to get a degree in accounting. When I finally got the time during my service to start focusing on music again and started creating my own works in just a few hours. She asked me if I wanted to do music in college and said she would support my dream to pursue that. She works full time as an accountant while I am a student full time for composition. It is quite a luxury to be married to someone who supports my dream for which I am truly thankful for. The best part is that she is incredible critical of my music too which helps push me to do better with each piece I write. 

tl;dr = I am a lucky guy.

Best,

Chris


----------



## Stepan

Hey Lukas, 

lots of valuable stuff has been said here and although there's nothing for me to add, I really hope that one day you'll look back at this thread and have a good laugh!
(no offense to prostitutes and gogo dancers)


----------



## Ryan

The Darris @ 10/9/2014 said:


> cmillar @ Tue Sep 09 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fall in love with someone that makes great money and has a stable job!
> 
> Hopefully, someone that fully supports your dreams and ambitions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, this is me to the tee. When my wife and I met, I was just starting school with the vague idea of doing music. When that didn't work out, I joined the military and she continued on through her schooling to get a degree in accounting. When I finally got the time during my service to start focusing on music again and started creating my own works in just a few hours. She asked me if I wanted to do music in college and said she would support my dream to pursue that. She works full time as an accountant while I am a student full time for composition. It is quite a luxury to be married to someone who supports my dream for which I am truly thankful for. The best part is that she is incredible critical of my music too which helps push me to do better with each piece I write.
> 
> tl;dr = I am a lucky guy.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chris
Click to expand...


+1
Same story here. Actually, I could have told the exact thing..


----------



## Frederick Russ

Hey Adam,

All joking aside man, I really hear you. The fact that you're having this discussion here is a good first step. 

I'm sure you've heard various incarnations of the phrase: "People hire those they like. Friends hire friends." In my opinion, there is no single industry that supports that idea more than the music industry. All the more reason to do exactly what you're doing now: networking, making friends, asking for help, and being open to possibilities however remote. 

If there is anything I have learned in this industry, its this: Whenever you make a connection, please make the friendship the priority first and foremost. Let go of what this person or that can do for you or who they know. Get to really know them first. In other words, tell them by your actions that "you matter, and what goes on in your world matters too." Even if it is trading jokes, watching youTube clips of your favorite movie scores, or simply having dinner. Take the time to cultivate solid relationships even if its only by online chat. Don't fake it. Make it real. Because people really can tell if you're being sincere. 

Another piece of advice: now that you've established what your dream is, be willing to do whatever it takes to see it through to completion. One hypothetical question (please don't take this personally): what if you suck? If so, is there anything you can do not to suck? What if your mixes and production values are under par, what if your arrangements lack luster and interest, what if your orchestration sounds like a train wreck, what if your MIDI mockups sound like a farfisa organ rather than a somewhat realistic interpretation of a real orchestra? These are questions every composer worth his/her salt has asked and worked to improve. So you have to ask yourself how badly you want your dream to manifest into reality. And do whatever it takes to make it a reality.

Last but not least: listen man, you deserve to eat, keep the lights on, and enjoy life too. Sometimes the best inspiration hits when you're at a new restaurant or enjoying a ball game with people you care about. If times are slow, your dream requires you to survive the tight times too. If that means going out and getting a part-time job, editing audio samples for a pal, play at a wedding, etc, swallow the pride and just go out and do it. Who knows? Somebody there might know someone's brother who just opened a studio or who has a sister-in-law who works as a receptionist for Hans Zimmer (I'm making all of this up but you get my gist). The point is to stay true to your dream and do whatever it takes to make it real.

If you're truly serious, then, never, ever, give up on your dreams. 




adam_lukas @ Sat Sep 06 said:


> Sounds great for the start hm? Yup, but unfortunately I'm completely broke.
> 
> The costs are exploding - the flat(studio), equipment (you always have to have the newest stuff huh?), website, memberships, traveling to events like festivals, meetings or collaborations, FOOD!?
> 
> I fear that I might have to get a part time job to go on.


----------



## vasio

Stepan @ Wed Sep 10 said:


> Hey Lukas,
> 
> lots of valuable stuff has been said here and although there's nothing for me to add, I really hope that one day you'll look back at this thread and have a good laugh!
> (no offense to prostitutes and gogo dancers)



Gogo dancer by night, composer by day - go.


----------



## Mahlon

cmillar @ Tue Sep 09 said:


> Fall in love with someone that makes great money and has a stable job!
> 
> Hopefully, someone that fully supports your dreams and ambitions.
> 
> (You're young..... think I'm joking? Not.)
> (hmmm....ever wonder why most ballet dancers are married to doctors, and not musicians?)
> 
> LOL.... sort of?
> 
> Really, most of us here who are old enough to have been married at least once or twice all know of other musicians that have seemingly had an 'easier time of it', perhaps, due to their living conditions and choice of significant other.
> 
> It's hard to be productive and active when you're always struggling to pay the rent and put food on the table when your partner is having doubts about your choice to be a composer or musician of any kind.
> 
> BUT.... if you're lucky enough to share your life with another creative person or someone that will really stick with you through thick and thin, then you will indeed have a rich, fulfilling life and are indeed a very lucky person.
> 
> I'm married to a modern dancer, teacher, choreographer. As she says, that's about a step up from a poet on the monetary scale and food-chain.
> 
> We have our ups and downs, but we stick at it because we have many more creative years ahead of us.
> 
> And, the "harder we work, the more successful we become".
> 
> You have to love what you're doing. It sounds and looks like you really do already! Great!
> 
> You can't measure all of life in terms of monetary success... but, like I said, if your partner has a steady gig, then that will be the 'quickest way to make some money'!
> (..... in a 'round-about sort of way!)



Great post. ^>|


----------



## vimonster

adam_lukas @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> @germancomponist
> I'm pretty sure we mean the same discussion/group



If you put your music in music libraries, it could be used on projects that'll make Nestle look like Mother Teresa. I stopped caring about that when I was 25. A young cynic perhaps.


----------



## dpasdernick

How do you make 1 million dollars in the music industry?... Spend 2 million. 'nuff said.


----------



## dannthr

There are two objectives here:

Live

Grow

There is no pride in starving, get a job.

On the other hand, say no to no--keep saying yes until you have to say no--be smart about it, but also recognize that 100% of growing in this business is about connecting with people and proving yourself.


----------



## FredrikJonasson

adam_lukas @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> I've had a discussion in another forum a few years ago and I was surprised how many composers would do a commercial for a company like Nestlé, that says access to water is not a human right, just because 'the price was right'.



If only more people would have this attitude! I applaud it. 

However, crappy projects in other aspects such as that the film really sucks is a whole other story 

And keep in mind, you probably don't have to take a full time day job. Or at least I wouldn't do that unless it happens to be my other musical branch. I figure you have quite a great deal of gear already considering what you already have done, so the most important thing should be surviving and have your inspiration pretty much intact.


----------



## thebob

germancomponist @ Sun Sep 07 said:


> adam_lukas @ Sun Sep 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've had a discussion in another forum a few years ago and I was surprised how many composers would do a commercial for a company like Nestlé, that says access to water is not a human right, just because 'the price was right'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had a similar discussion in a "composer"group on facebook. I was laughed at and ridiculed, because I never would do such a job.
Click to expand...


this is how sick and sad the world is..


----------



## nomoremusic

i could not resist and not to include myself in this conversation.
the guy asks normal question, and bunch of dickheads avoid answer cause they are afraid that too many competitors will enter their game and market, and steal their precious informations about libraries on which they earn 50 bucks per month
if these were real players making real income ,they would not be afraid of sharing info to their mates and colleagues.
so obviously we are talking about small fishes

so i will say few words:
DO!
Apply on SOUNDTAXI. german royalty free. worth the effort
Apply on Pond5, and Audiojungle .upload regulary.
You should get some money from there.
Apply for AdRev!obligatory! 200 tracks on aj+ adRev will get you decent money. be constant with uploading!!
Partner your adRev with youtube. Upload to youtube.

Find ok guys to ask them for advice and see what they do
ALEXANDER Dimitrijevic / cool, friendly, tells you ,helps you....has reputation. has income. has huge trailer placements in blockbusters, i mean huge
his placements are really something to be proud of.
Jaap Visser /top notch. cool, high end game composer, has good studio, has the knowledge ,extremely ok and o the ground. no bulls..t . He is also in royalty free, but high end level
OSCAR FOLGESTROM / just check his Facebook. absolutely totally high end studio. real dea. besides bunch of stuff he does ,he also runs a studio in stockholm. WHE I SAY HIGH END ,I DO MEAN IT!THE GUY IS TOTALLY NORMAL
Huge SSL in studio,few bricasti reverbs, tons of mics, api the box in other room.
Ask him what to do.
BADSTRING studio . Owned by Christian or Kristian, from Croatia or Slovenia.There is a website.Unknown in trailer world,but he had two audio jungle accounts in top 10.earned fortune. Top notch gear including brauner mics, bricasti reverbs 2x Solaris synths ,big guitar collection. He has Api console in his main studio. Worked for Redbull, ESL one, Alex Jones etc etc. Find him on Facebook .
THOMAS BERGENSEN
HE is in LA, but he knows how to work. does not need introduction. Just find him and ask him for advice.

AVOID!!
Avoid CouldB since they will forget to register your tracks at Ascap. they are clumsy, they don't care about you.
Avoid Reallyslowmotion *.*They created universe for themselves thinking they are stars in their own world.
Avoid wanna be composers who think anyone gives a sh.t about his streaming and his composing workflow

AVOID MUSICLIBRARYREPORT SINCE GUYS LKE THESE PURPOSELY TEND TO GIVE FALSE INFO ABOUT
LIBRARIES THAT DO GOOD, AND VICE VERSA.

DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR.
THINK OF MAKING YOUR WEBSITE ,MAKE A GOOD MUSIC, BETTER THAN THOSE I MENTIONED, WHICH REALLY ISNT HARD.
SET ON 2/3 RF LIBRARIES FOR START,


----------



## rottoy

Take this post as a warning, kids; Don't drink and V.I Control!


----------



## musicformedia

nomoremusic said:


> i could not resist and not to include myself in this conversation.
> the guy asks normal question, and bunch of dickheads avoid answer cause they are afraid that too many competitors will enter their game and market, and steal their precious informations about libraries on which they earn 50 bucks per month
> if these were real players making real income ,they would not be afraid of sharing info to their mates and colleagues.
> so obviously we are talking about small fishes
> 
> so i will say few words:
> DO!
> Apply on SOUNDTAXI. german royalty free. worth the effort
> Apply on Pond5, and Audiojungle .upload regulary.
> You should get some money from there.
> Apply for AdRev!obligatory! 200 tracks on aj+ adRev will get you decent money. be constant in uploading!!
> Partner your adRev with youtube. Upload to youtube.
> 
> Find ok guys to ask them for advice and see what they do
> *ALEXANDER Dimitrijevic* / cool, friendly, tells you ,helps you....has reputation. has income. has huge trailer placements in blockbusters, i mean huge
> his placements are really something to be proud of.
> *Jaap Visser */top notch. cool, high end game composer, has good studio, has the knowledge ,extremely ok and o the ground. no bulls..t . He is also in royalty free, but high end level
> *OSCAR FOLGESTROM / *just check his Facebook. absolutely totally high end studio. real dea. besides bunch of stuff he does ,he also runs a studio in stockholm. WHE I SAY HIGH END ,I DO MEAN IT!THE GUY IS TOTALLY NORMAL
> Huge SSL in studio, briquets reverbs, tons of pics, api the box in other room.
> Ask him what to do.
> *BADSTRING studio .* Owned by Christian or Kristian, from Croatia or Slovenia.There is a website.Unknown in trailer world,but he had two audio jungle accounts in top 10.earned fortune. Top notch gear including brauner mics, bricasti reverbs 2x Solaris synths ,big guitar collection. He has Api console in his main studio. Worked for Redbull, ESL one, Alex Jones etc etc. Find him on Facebook .
> *THOMAS BERGENSEN*
> HE is in LA, but he knows how to work. does not need introduction. Just find him and ask him for advice.
> 
> AVOID!!
> Avoid *CouldB *since they will forget to register your tracks at Ascap. they are clumsy, they don't care about you.
> Avoid *Reallyslowmotion .*They created universe for themselves thinking they are stars in their own world.
> Avoid wanna be composers such as *Dirk Ehlert* who think anyone gives a sh.t about his streaming and his composing workflow
> Avoid any advice* from Russell Bell* , most boring guy on the market, but i mean boring in all possible way. Low end composer and guy who works all possible time to make a living.
> Don't watch what *TREVOR MORRIS does.* He is most untalented musician whose manager managed to set him several EMMY s for a tracks on two chords....i mean, whole this world turned into wicked place where we have overeating frustrated wanna be stars ,singers like that one* Aerlie Brighton *AND MANY MORE.
> *AVOID MUSICLIBRARYREPORT SINCE GUYS LKE THESE PURPOSELY TEND TO GIVE FALSE INFO ABOUT
> LIBRARIES THAT DO GOOD, AND VICE VERSA.*
> 
> *DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR.
> THINK OF MAKING YOUR WEBSITE ,MAKE A GOOD MUSIC, BETTER THAN THOSE I MENTIONED, WHICH REALLY ISNT HARD.
> SET ON 2/3 RF LIBRARIES FOR START,*



DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR....and ignore absolutely all of this person's "advice". He's clearly either a troll or very badly mis-informed about many people, companies and areas of the industry. All of the composers he mentioned are genuinely nice people, with plenty to share and very talented on top of it all. 

Just don't even respond to him. Seriously - you'll just feed the troll. Ignore him.


----------



## nomoremusic

musicformedia said:


> DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR....and ignore absolutely all of this person's "advice". He's clearly either a troll or very badly mis-informed about many people, companies and areas of the industry. All of the composers he mentioned are genuinely nice people, with plenty to share and very talented on top of it all.
> 
> Just don't even respond to him. Seriously - you'll just feed the troll. Ignore him.




Why didn't you ignore? do you also make a living from false info, or maybe from selling a guide with wrong info? 
oh, yes you DOOOO!


----------



## musicformedia

nomoremusic said:


> Why didn't you ignore? do you also make a living from false info, or maybe from selling a guide with wrong info?
> oh, yes you DOOOO!



Why didn't I ignore? Because I love chatting with trolls.

I sell a guide with wrong info do I? Please enlighten me? Have you bought my eBook? What specifically is "wrong" about it?


----------



## rottoy

musicformedia said:


> DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR....and ignore absolutely all of this person's "advice". He's clearly either a troll or very badly mis-informed about many people, companies and areas of the industry. All of the composers he mentioned are genuinely nice people, with plenty to share and very talented on top of it all.
> 
> Just don't even respond to him. Seriously - you'll just feed the troll. Ignore him.


You gotta give credit to the guy for coming up with the poetic name "nomoremusic" to accurately reflect his philosophies.


----------



## nomoremusic

rottoy said:


> You gotta give credit to the guy for coming up with the poetic name "nomoremusic" to accurately reflect his philosophies.


uh i gotta get my medicine, how tough this last post was for me...
jus kiddin. i mean, you could do it better. take some time.


----------



## musicformedia

nomoremusic said:


> uh i gotta get my medicine, how tough this last post was for me...
> jus kiddin. i mean, you could do it better. take some time.



While you're grabbing your crazy pills, why don't you post a few of your own tracks here so we can all hear how truly talented you are?


----------



## Baron Greuner

edited


----------



## Carles

nomoremusic said:


> p.s. my tracks won't help you redirect focus off the issue that is relevant here


which is...?


----------



## nomoremusic

the guy asked a question. which is the topic of this thread.
he expects an answer without bulls...t


----------



## nomoremusic

i will conclude
i am no exception
lets say i represent some decent number of people who paid Music library report, who purchased Emmet book, and
who are members of mentioned libraries, and members of Unmentioned libraries in the book, which Emmet is a part of.
Lets say these people are tired of false info, of avoiding the right answers , like we see here.
No fuc...g one had balls to respond and say / I SELL HERE, AND SALES ARE GOD/BAD
what are you afraid of?
you think you joined the club and will sell info?
You will sell no info anymore.
Every info, every report will be public and free!
That is a promise

I am gone
Write back soon with more surprise
cheers fellas


----------



## germancomponist

nomoremusic said:


> AVOID!!
> Avoid *CouldB *since they will forget to register your tracks at Ascap. they are clumsy, they don't care about you.
> Avoid *Reallyslowmotion .*They created universe for themselves thinking they are stars in their own world.
> Avoid wanna be composers such as *Dirk Ehlert* who think anyone gives a sh.t about his streaming and his composing workflow
> Avoid any advice* from Russell Bell* , most boring guy on the market, but i mean boring in all possible way. Low end composer and guy who works all possible time to make a living.
> Don't watch what *TREVOR MORRIS does.* He is most-untalented successful musician whose manager managed to set him several EMMY s for a tracks on two chords....i mean, whole this world turned into wicked place where we have overeating frustrated wanna be stars ,singers like that one* Aerlie Brighton *AND MANY MORE.
> *AVOID MUSICLIBRARYREPORT SINCE GUYS LKE THESE PURPOSELY TEND TO GIVE FALSE INFO ABOUT
> LIBRARIES THAT DO GOOD, AND VICE VERSA.*
> 
> *DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR.
> THINK OF MAKING YOUR WEBSITE ,MAKE A GOOD MUSIC, BETTER THAN THOSE I MENTIONED, WHICH REALLY ISNT HARD.
> SET ON 2/3 RF LIBRARIES FOR START,*



I can underline something here...! Good post!


----------



## Carles

nomoremusic said:


> i will conclude
> i am no exception
> lets say i represent some decent number of people who paid Music library report, who purchased Emmet book, and
> who are members of mentioned libraries, and members of Unmentioned libraries in the book, which Emmet is a part of.
> Lets say these people are tired of false info, of avoiding the right answers , like we see here.
> No fuc...g one had balls to respond and say / I SELL HERE, AND SALES ARE GOD/BAD
> what are you afraid of?
> you think you joined the club and will sell info?
> You will sell no info anymore.
> Every info, every report will be public and free!
> That is a promise
> 
> I am gone
> Write back soon with more surprise
> cheers fellas


Oh, that makes sense. I understand now why I cannot get my tracks into those top libraries, it's because I bought Emmett's book and I paid MLR so I've been getting intentional misleading info all this time.
Indeed I go to delete Mr. Cooke book from my hard drive (why it has to be useful to have all that info gathered into a single source while I can find the same spread in tiny bits in the Net for free in just a few years?) and also cancel my MLR subscription ASAP (actually all opinions at MLR have to be fake, no actual users in there but Art have registered several hundred users himself and is posting intentionally wrong info in there to mislead us, now it makes perfect sense). Then a quick trip to LA to find and have a chat with Mr. Bergersen (and once in LA why not having a chat with J. Williams, then I could easily get into film scoring too!) and after that I'll try again with the top libraries as surely they will listen this time.
I'll tell you how it gone once I'm back from L.A.
Did you ever thought about writing a book with such a valuable advice?


----------



## nomoremusic

Carles said:


> Did you ever thought about writing a book with such a valuable advice?


no i did not.
i would not be able to look at myself in the mirror ,if i would charge that kind of info.


----------



## germancomponist

Carles, I am with you, but there is some truth in nomoremusic's post ... .


----------



## Carles

nomoremusic said:


> would not be able to look at myself in the mirror ,if i would charge that kind of info.


Well, you won't be charging for the info itself, but for gathering it and offer your research and experiences in an organized format so people can save their time.


----------



## Baron Greuner

edited


----------



## Guffy

nomoremusic said:


> *THOMAS BERGENSEN*
> HE is in LA, but he knows how to work. does not need introduction. Just find him and ask him for advice.



Didn't he move to Miami?

Anyway, since i'm Norwegian, i think i'll just hang around his childhood house during xmas and hope for him to arrive.


----------



## jononotbono

Ozymandias said:


> Hilariously, Sound On Sound once printed an article on making a living from media composing that essentially advised people not to become media composers. :lol:
> 
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec05/a ... icture.htm
> 
> I still read it every so often. Gotta keep that optimism at bay.




This article is hilarious, brutally honest and fills me with Optimism. haha!


----------



## AlexRuger

nomoremusic said:


> i mean, whole this world turned into wicked place where we have overeating frustrated wanna be stars ,singers like that one* Aerlie Brighton *AND MANY MORE.



Wow man, that's low. I know Aerlie--have recorded her many times--and she's awesome. She's worked her ass off to be where she is today and deserves 100% of the success she's getting. 

If you're going to name names publicly like that (a terrible idea, but then again you're hiding behind an anonymous username), at least be accurate.


----------



## Adam Lukas

Hey guys! I'm fine meanwhile. Please calm down! 

I made some really good money- not with libraries though!
Also, I got my pricing right and learned to value my work and music. That's why I'd never submit anything to Audiojungle or Pond5. Those libraries just don't work for me.

I got to know interesting people and was working on even more interesting projects. I've even won brand new speakers out of the ADAM Audio competition haha. The key to success was getting out there and introduce myself to film and media world- that, with lots of good preparation:
.) top notch website
.) top notch showreel
.) being a nice guy people want to work with (this includes not being a dick)
.) a lot of hard work

In my opinion, the film composer's job can be illustrated this way:
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4240/jgxluybe_png.htm
(I did it in online paint, sorry)

If you miss the balance point, you won't have a chance out there.
Thanks again to all people who contributed valuable content to this post. I did find A LOT of it to be very useful (fyi nomoremusic - your post was just full of hate- I couldn't get a lot out of it. Just a hint: If you're offending people on the internet by calling out their names, you should at least link to your website or say who you are. )

All the best from Vienna,
Adam Lukas


----------



## Carles

nomoremusic said:


> WE will be back with quotes and names from guys who literally told us to f..k off, and that their info is too valuable to share.
> This thread is about to explode with testimonials, quotes, names, etc etc. I mean explode.
> Every info on every library will be visible and free!
> 
> i am back in a day or two.
> bye


Seriously now, I understand your frustration, I really do because I'm in the same boat (and so many other in this forum), but I think your are blaming on the wrong recipients.

Music Library Report, is a site created for needs that nobody is covering for free at the moment. It takes time and money to maintain it and the owner is charging for it, which I see perfectly fine.
Opinions there are not coming from the owner but users (Art also writes comments of course, as everyone who wishes to). So, are you saying that all MLR members agreed misleading people intentionally?
Honestly that makes no sense to me (even less being a member myself) and sounds to me like frustration doesn't allow you to think with clarity.
Not a complot, just people having their (wrong or not) own opinion. Simple as that.

Emmett's book is no other than a guide, not a key to open the top libraries door, just a ton of information properly collected, well organized and properly presented in a manner that any beginner can understand what the business is about, how it works, the terminology used and some resources like a list with quite a few libraries.
I find the price for that book more than reasonable as it saved me tons of time of info research.
But you talk like if it was something really personal and try to convince other that's a scam as well as MLR...

Looks like it's actually you (and some other) who did not understand that no Emmett, nor MLR are selling you a guaranteed job but just some tools that might come handy, and none of them is forcing you to purchase their assets.

So what's about? did you pay for those and you still not making money? so do I.
I'm not making money because this business is not easy and works very slowly.

First thing you need is some talent (a minimum of) and second to be able to produce good quality music (I know many super talented guys with null knowledge about production).
Okay, then we have something called "product". Do you have some "product"? that's great, you're now just at the early beginning of the game.
3rd, what's your gender/s and how it sells (it can be super cool music and really well produced but with very reduced market or no market at all).
Forth, do you know someone who can introduce you to good libraries? because all the above is useless if the libraries will never listen to your music, and in my experience it doesn't happen.
I can tell you that none of the libraries I've submitted music so far (admittedly all quite high targets) none of them had a listen to my music. The link I've provided has a play counter and it has precisely 0 plays.
On two of those libraries I was introduced first by somebody else, so they didn't listen even if being recommended, so you can easily imagine what they do with those ordinary submissions (if accepting any submissions at all).

5th, find what libraries are doing well with your gender and try to target those, from more important to less important leaving several weeks between attempts as in the best cases they will take long to respond.

Indeed RF and non exclusives are easier. Through what you consider a useless site (MLR) I was contacted by AudioSparx inviting me to publish my music there, and I did publish all my public domain renditions and they featured me for a week. Quick and easy.
Do I expect to make great money from there? honestly not at all. I'd be glad if I'll grab 50 bucks eventually.

So, with the "easy" libraries possibly you won't make money unless you'll have a (really) huge amount of tracks, and with the top tier ones you can expect to never get in.

Yes, it's a tough business, but please don't blame on the moonlight, better fit your expectations in base to the informations you're gathering here and there and be (very) patient, or just quit. (i'll possibly quit within some months because I need serious rest. We'll see).

So no need to attack anyone, if you have something to tell, just tell and let anyone take their own conclusions.
And by all means do not confess who you are because otherwise you're done.
You should understand that this business is about 90% networking and 10% talent/production quality and attacking people who can be essential in your network will burn any bridges you might wish in the future.

Are you and some guys preparing a site with tons of info for the fellow composers and want to share?
I'd applaud that, count me as your member No.1, like this I'd have another source to compare.
MLR still will have members (myself included) and Emmett still will keep selling his book, because information is a valuable asset, and rather than replacing anything I find smarter to have as many sources as I can and compare between them.
So again, please peace. No need to attack anyone. People is usually smart enough as per taking their own conclusions.

Cheers,
Carles


----------



## alumo

i purchased a book few months ago.
it is a guide on libraries , and type if libraries, but thats all.
there are no key libraries included.
MLR is outdated. 
key libraries are a secret which people are not keen to share


----------



## musicformedia

alumo said:


> i purchased a book few months ago.
> it is a guide on libraries , and type if libraries, but thats all.
> there are no key libraries included.
> MLR is outdated.
> key libraries are a secret which people are not keen to share



The real problem is that the libraries that work for me, will not automatically work for you as we all write different styles of music. Take the time to start experimenting with libraries and see what works for you. 

There is no "fast lane" to success with music libraries. It takes a few years of writing, uploading and testing.


----------



## alumo

the library where you sell is not mentioned at all


----------



## musicformedia

alumo said:


> the library where you sell is not mentioned at all



*Sigh*


----------



## Carles

alumo said:


> the library where you sell is not mentioned at all



Still not getting that such a thing doesn't exist, no key libraries. That's a unique experience based on what you produce and how you manage to get it some were.
A given library can work fabulous for you and a complete disaster for me, depending on many factors.

Only your work and your own try/error will tell what's the key library for -you-, nobody can ever known that.
Assume it, there is not a golden key that everyone is keeping for themselves, only you can forge that key, so grab the hammer and begin hammering the metal yourself, only then you'll get your key.


----------



## nomoremusic

no key libraries? you gotta me kidding me.
your opinion is actually based on things written there. that is why 
you think there are no key libraries.
there are key libraries very much!!

google each library and their month traffic, and you will see for yourself


----------



## musicformedia

nomoremusic said:


> no key libraries? you gotta me kidding me.
> your opinion is actually based on things written there. that is why
> you think there are no key libraries.
> there are key libraries very much!!
> 
> google each library and their month traffic, and you will see for yourself



Hi "nomoremusic". Post a link to your music or to your website and I'll happily suggest which libraries you should join.


----------



## Carles

still not getting it. Is not about -their- traffic but -yours-! and that depends on your type of work, the marketplace, and many other variables.

Edit: extending info.

Just remembered something I was told time ago. One guy told me that a friend of him has about 200 tracks in Extreme and is not making a living from it (gender was not disclosed). On the other hand I know a guy who is making a living practically from the less than 20 tracks he has in Extreme.
Same place (one that everyone would consider "key"), very different outcome.
Extreme is not working for the former guy, for any reason. So nope, there are no key libraries. There are potential probabilities to get placements, but always depending on many factors.


----------



## doctornine

Misconception Number 1. You do not make money fast from libraries.
Be it RF or hi-end, it's a long slow game, which you can weigh in your favour by writing a lot of music.

Getting back to the OP''s question of quick way to make money as a composer : Get a job. Even a part time job, and don't quit it until you are making the same or more from music.

It's that simple. Sorry, but thats the way it is.


----------



## hummingbird

I agree there is no "quick" way to make music from music libraries. Assuming they have a good rep and accept your tracks, they'll pitch them to opportunities in the film/tv market. Assuming your track is chosen, it's added to the particular tv show and then broadcast at some point. Cue sheets are filed and your PRO will pass your royalties on to you six to nine months later. Some shows do pay sync fees, your library will cut your a check for your share as per your agreement - three or six months after they receive their payment. In many (most) cases, payouts in both sync and royalties will be small, so the secret is to write and sign a number of good quality tracks over a number of years in order to build your income from tv. 

Or, what doctornine said


----------



## Jaap

I do not fully agree on the fact that there is no quick way. There is short term strategy and long term strategy in my opinion and thanks Nomoremusic for the kind words and credits you give to me, but a small correction is in order. I have been a game composer and made for years a living out of it, but I am not a heavy weight who worked on AAA games, but made decent and good money with working on smaller games. I am not working as game composer atm (since I lost my studio 3 years ago due to a fire and had to rebuild it I started to focus on library music).
Anyway, back to the short and long term strategy. While I was building up my studio again I started writing music for libraries such as Audiojungle, Pond5 etc and mostly I am working there under a different name and I produce music that is in general popular (happy corporate music that is). This generates actually a decent income per month and it pays out per month. Of course you have to create time to work on such tracks, but a few can get you started for a bit and just produce. This music will not be used in fancy projects, tv shows etc, but more in corporate videos and youtube stuff, but if you can live with that, then nothing wrong with it.

The long term strategy is to indeed produce a really good amount of good tracks, think about spreading them around and also start writing for exclusive libraries. Setup a good system for yourself with tagging, how to describe a track in good way, a good composition process that you can write more easy with compositions where you have to create good and workable edits from etc.
You also have a few libraries like scoreAscore who will work with a brieving system (via mail) and figure out what tracks are often wanted and that will fit in your strength. Have a bunch ready that you can submit quickly (often deadlines of 1 day till a few hours to submit) and this can create work for really nice projects with very good pay.
Just my 2 cents here. Nomoremusic gave me too much credit for who I am, though I am always willing to share my thoughts and input, but I am able to make a good steady living out of library music. Just don't bet everything on one horse is my advice and be creative and do a lot of research and find your strenght, but also the will to think out of the box and to create music that is not persé oscar material. But if you do that, just work with an alias and that is just a common thing (Daryl also suggested it I think a while back in another thread).


----------



## alumo

Emmet i saw your account on Premiumbeat.what is the deal with them?


----------



## InLight-Tone

There's a lot of Truth in what nomoremusic wrote I would have to agree...


----------



## alumo

I agree pretty much
It is maybe too direct but there is truth there.
There are clans outthere.


----------



## Baron Greuner

edited


----------



## alumo

Why are there no mentions on Couldb , Premiumbeat and Shutterstock in Emmet book?


----------



## geoffreyvernon

Composing and making money quickly are rarely ever used in the same sentence. It took my company almost two years before we got our first license. Lol! We're doing fine now but it was avery bumpy start for us.

However if you're looking to stick with music and make money then you could start by sending your music to libraries* exclusive and non exclusive both help sometimes depending on what you're wanting to achieve*, working with YouTube channels with lot's of views that can afford to pay for music, giving lessons, working at studios. Stuff like that can help make money. However I go back to what I said before, rarely do you ever quickly make money in this game. It takes a LOT of patience, hard word and dedication! It's definitely possible! Just, not overnight.


----------



## C.R. Rivera

I could not resist:
_
"Composing and making money quickly are rarely ever used in the same sentence."_

That reminds me: Does anyone go to Chipotle and ask for the safest meal? 

Carlos


----------



## geoffreyvernon

C.R. Rivera said:


> I could not resist:
> _
> "Composing and making money quickly are rarely ever used in the same sentence."_
> 
> That reminds me: Does anyone go to Chipotle and ask for the safest meal?
> 
> Carlos


I tried one time. They didn't really like it though.. It might have been the way I asked for no ecoli. Not sure though!


----------



## alumo

musicformedia said:


> *Sigh*


Is Premiumbeat and Couldb too private to be a public matter?
How much do people earn there?


----------



## Baron Greuner

edited


----------



## alumo

Baron Greuner said:


> Millions!!!!


well this information will come out sooner or later


----------



## musicformedia

alumo said:


> Why are there no mentions on Couldb , Premiumbeat and Shutterstock in Emmet book?



I guess when I wrote the list of 200 music libraries, I missed out on 3. Please forgive me. 

Send me your email address - I'd like to refund you, as clearly you feel its an awful guide.


----------



## Rodney Money

Before I personally answer this question from my perspective, are you really asking, "What are ways to make quick money with my DAW and samples?" Or are you asking, "What are ways to make quick money as a composer, which includes everything?"


----------



## alumo

musicformedia said:


> I guess when I wrote the list of 200 music libraries, I missed out on 3. Please forgive me.
> 
> Send me your email address - I'd like to refund you, as clearly you feel its an awful guide.


no refund necessary.can you give us a tip for Premiumbeat?
I see you sell there.
So what is that library like?


----------



## alumo

musicformedia said:


> I guess when I wrote the list of 200 music libraries, I missed out on 3. Please forgive me.
> 
> Send me your email address - I'd like to refund you, as clearly you feel its an awful guide.


no refund necessary.can you give us a tip for Premiumbeat?
I see you sell there.
So what is that library like?


----------



## alumo

musicformedia said:


> I guess when I wrote the list of 200 music libraries, I missed out on 3. Please forgive me.
> 
> Send me your email address - I'd like to refund you, as clearly you feel its an awful guide.


----------



## Baron Greuner

edited


----------



## alumo

Baron Greuner said:


> Premiumbeat?
> 
> Best library in the world. You'll love it. Let me know what you think of it and how much you make.





Baron Greuner said:


> Premiumbeat?
> 
> Best library in the world. You'll love it. Let me know what you think of it and how much you make.


yo do not have to answer me ,but to other who might be interested. 
i sell there .5 tracks per month. you probably then know that i love it.
i would like Emmet to tell us more about it. He is library expert. 
Well he works there longer than me, and has a book about libraries. 
You paid the guy, let him tell you about Premiumbeat.I am sure he knows absolutely 
every detail about working with them


----------



## Chris D

Work as hard as you can. Long nights when you are really tired keep on going. If you have any work on the go don't waste time, get it done. If you need a part time job get one and live cheap - but keep composing. Pick out what your weeknesses are and accept them as a flaw in your profession, Then use that flaw as a weapon to learn and get better at Your profession.

I work part time one day a week (paying the bills), used to work full time but got to a low point mentally so changed up my life and now feel amazing because I have confidence in what I am learning that I will become more professional every day. There is a lot of acceptance of harsh realities that play a massive part in improving through hard work. Once you've thought all that through do what you do best, write music. Write more and then more 

Best of luck!!


----------



## D.Salzenberg

Agree with the post above, if you need a part time job, take one to pay the bills. If you are trying to make money doing composing, with one eye on when all your money runs out, you are probably highly unlikely to succeed under the extreme pressure of that financial disaster timeline. I recently cut back my full time web design day job to part time, which pays the bills etc while giving me much more time to work on music without being too knackered to do any music after eight hours design work. Best thing I ever did. Much happier now! even though I don't have lots of spare cash, I can work on my dream and still pay the bills, and still have some sort of social life away from the computer.


----------



## Johnny

Ozymandias said:


> Hilariously, Sound On Sound once printed an article on making a living from media composing that essentially advised people not to become media composers. :lol:
> 
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec05/a ... icture.htm
> 
> I still read it every so often. Gotta keep that optimism at bay.


Lol, Actually I remember HZ was once quoted saying, "If you can do anything else to make a living and still be happy? Do it!!!"


----------



## Johnny

Johnny said:


> Lol, Actually I remember HZ was once quoted saying, "If you can do anything else to make a living and still be happy? Do it!!!"


Realistically, the modern day composer (unless you are at the top of the food chain?) should honestly be more focused on making their income from a variety of musical income streams. The most business savvy composers that I have ever met, always dabble in three to four revenue streams to make up their yearly pie: composing, arranging, mixing and mastering (other client's work, not your own), audio restoration, performing, teaching, music licensing, CD sales, sample development, field recording, SFX libraries, you name it!!! Think of music and composing as a way of life- multiple ingredients that make up your yearly music revenue pie! You'll do just fine! Never forget to use your local contacts whenever possible! (Meetups.com, local film and game development schools etc... Distribute your music and don't be afraid to be a bottom feede! There are always many, many more smaller paying gigs that can definitely add up and become more than enough income to pay your monthly bills! (And network, network, network!) You'll never have to worry about calling it a day job when you love what you do for a living- no matter what related aspect it is that you financially choose earn your living! It will always be connected to your dream job and the more experiences you obtain alongside of your passion the better!
All of the best!


----------



## dan1

*1. industry has no soup for newcomers
2. only composers on imdb can be called composers
3. 1% of all music makers get rich and 99% die trying (or try dying)*

a composer becomes a composer after years of experience, years of connections and close relationships with their clients.. not to mention you need very polished skills writing to picture!! years if not decades

test yourself:
- download a copy of your favorite movie
- separate the audio and remove all music
- score the film

have you managed to score the film? do you like the result? can you imagine the film being played in theatre or tv with your sound? how would you rate overall result from 1 to 10? if it is less than 10 its a dead end. otherwise, the industry will want you.. now do another one... and another one. do at least three min 2-hour films from start to end it is the only way for you to know at least if you have the skills. getting films is another story, for that you will mainly need connections with the right people and great communication skills, but if your music speaks for itself then it's only a matter of time until you get your first job as a composer

I discovered @JohnG 's website and wasn't surprised to find yet another diamond and great example. what is common for @Rctec and JohnG? their site is fancy? no! they do promotions..? no! they go to festivals/events? yes! but only to grab an award not to introduce themselves 

i post random shit to my soundcloud and if someone ever reaches out to me from disney, then welcome.. if not, what happens? will i be broke? no!! because i wasn't expecting it anyway so there is no fall (or no ladder to climb...you get the point) the higher the hopes the harder you fall

my suggestion for you and all those 99% music makers: music is your hobby and not your income, never ever count on making a living doing music

*remember: 1% of all music makers get rich and 99% die trying (or try dying)*
(lol i lmao'ed roflin chokin, almost pooped)


----------



## Rodney Money

dan1 said:


> 2. only composers on imdb can be called composers


----------



## Michael K. Bain

dan1 said:


> a composer becomes a composer after years of experience, years of connections and close relationships with their clients.. not to mention you need very polished skills writing to picture!!


Someone should've told Bach that. He never wrote a score; I guess he wasn't a composer.

A composer becomes a composer when he/she first creates original music.


----------



## Vin

dan1 said:


> *1. industry has no soup for newcomers
> 2. only composers on imdb can be called composers
> 3. 1% of all music makers get rich and 99% die trying (or try dying)*
> 
> a composer becomes a composer after years of experience, years of connections and close relationships with their clients.. not to mention you need very polished skills writing to picture!! years if not decades
> 
> test yourself:
> - download a copy of your favorite movie
> - separate the audio and remove all music
> - score the film
> 
> have you managed to score the film? do you like the result? can you imagine the film being played in theatre or tv with your sound? how would you rate overall result from 1 to 10? if it is less than 10 its a dead end. otherwise, the industry will want you.. now do another one... and another one. do at least three min 2-hour films from start to end it is the only way for you to know at least if you have the skills. getting films is another story, for that you will mainly need connections with the right people and great communication skills, but if your music speaks for itself then it's only a matter of time until you get your first job as a composer
> 
> I discovered @JohnG 's website and wasn't surprised to find yet another diamond and great example. what is common for hans zimmer and JohnG? their site is fancy? no! they do promotions..? no! they go to festivals/events? yes! but only to grab an award not to introduce themselves
> 
> i post random shit to my soundcloud and if someone ever reaches out to me from disney, then welcome.. if not, what happens? will i be broke? no!! because i wasn't expecting it anyway so there is no fall (or no ladder to climb...you get the point) the higher the hopes the harder you fall
> 
> my suggestion for you and all those 99% music makers: music is your hobby and not your income, never ever count on making a living doing music
> 
> *remember: 1% of all music makers get rich and 99% die trying (or try dying)*
> (lol i lmao'ed roflin chokin, almost pooped)



And did you managed to get Hans' template in the end?


----------



## InLight-Tone

dan1 said: "my suggestion for you and all those 99% music makers: music is your hobby and not your income, never ever count on making a living doing music"

...and that will be exactly YOUR outcome. You attract what you radiate...


----------



## Daryl

dan1 said:


> *2. only composers on imdb can be called composers*


Actually that's 100% wrong. They're film composers, which in mathematical terms is not a subset of composers; it's an intersection.


----------



## RiffWraith

dan1 said:


> *1. industry has no soup for newcomers*



Disagree completely. Sorry.


----------



## Rodney Money

Michael K. Bain said:


> Someone should've told Bach that. He never wrote a score; I guess he wasn't a composer.
> 
> A composer becomes a composer when he/she first creates original music.


I was so stinking close to writing the same thing.


----------



## Noam Guterman

dan1 said:


> *1. industry has no soup for newcomers
> 2. only composers on imdb can be called composers
> 3. 1% of all music makers get rich and 99% die trying* (or try dying)



Wow, very inspirational. You should write an e-book.
(Just kidding, I think it's one of the dumbest things I've read around here. Why will you discourage newcomers? In what position are you to think that you can do that? And to even *Bold it as if it were something of great importance*)


----------



## dan1

I feel dumb for what I said :(

maybe not all composers are on imdb I dnot know, just assumed

Didn't mean to break hopes for people but I'm a very passimist person so don't take me seriously,if you believe in you do you and you are really talented then you will get a job

and lol I didn't got Hans templot , I'm too shy to ask him in pm but it needs 10 pcs to even run so I pooped gave up on it


----------



## Red

I doubt that Hans is doing some 'crazy secretive thing that no other composer knows' with his templates. 
All I expect to see is efficient bussing, well programmed synths, and his own orchestral samples and plugins which you won't be able to play.
His music, although I'm not always fond of, goes beyond a mere template. He's not writing to a template.
The template comes as a tool for speed in the middle of the process.


----------



## dan1

Noam Guterman said:


> Wow, very inspirational. You should write an e-book.
> (Just kidding, I think it's one of the dumbest things I've read around here. Why will you discourage newcomers? In what position are you to think that you can do that? And to even *Bold it as if it were something of great importance*)



I'm in no position because music isn't my job, but do you want to encourage people to keep buying more and more samples going in debt then end up broke hungry for bread? starters should only invest in 3-4 libraries and if they start making money then buy more, don't keep buying if it doesn't return the investment..otherwise they end up with scheisseload of samples dreams and debts .. the OP was wondering why he isn't seeing money thats how I saw it

I didn't mean to discourage, I meant to set hopes for people who thought getting a JOB in music is easy pasy

כמה תפקידים יש בארץ למלחינים לטלוויזיה כמו של האח הגדול או הישרדות? כמה מהם פנוים?? אפשר לספור על 10 אצבעות
איזה אחוז מהמוזיקה שאתה שומע בסרטים וטלוויזיה הוא מאנשים חדשים?? 1% בלחץ


----------



## Vin

dan1 said:


> I'm a very pessimist person



Work on that, change it. It won't do you any good.

If Hans and other great artist were pessimists, they wouldn't be who they are.


----------



## elpedro

It's easy to make a million in the music industry!....just invest two million!


----------



## givemenoughrope

^oldest joke ever...but true. 

I was going to say sell all or your gear. Or be a sample developer?


----------



## dan1

I pooped this thread sorry didn't mean
don't take anything from me even in real life I fail I have no girl no job no nufing
i encourage you stars keep doing what you do best and may god be with you and blessings
OP , money talking I saw your pic and you can be modeling it's easier money at least for yoy


----------



## Vakhtang

This thread is fucking hilarious in a good way


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

dan1 said:


> I have no girl



That's your problem right there. Look for a cheap flat, find a stripper to live with who will support you so you can stay home and write history. It might take time, but if you stick at it, you'll eventually see the light at the end of the tunnel and you'll know you're on your way to the top.


----------



## Prockamanisc

Rodney Money said:


> "What are ways to make quick money as a composer, which includes everything?"


I'd personally like to see this one answered, if you're up to it, Rodney.


----------



## patrick76

You can make money as a composer? I think most composers have to print their own money. Even if you get caught and sent to federal prison, you will get free housing, food, an interesting sex life, and a lot of time to write. Some might look down on this approach, but screw them. Quick tip - most prisoners won't be interested in fugues.


----------



## synergy543

Michael K. Bain said:


> Someone should've told Bach that. He never wrote a score; I guess he wasn't a composer.



Actually, J.S. Bach currently has 986 film credits on IMDB.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001925/


----------



## Michael K. Bain

synergy543 said:


> Actually, J.S. Bach currently has 986 film credits on IMDB.
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001925/


He may have music that is in movies, but how many times did he write a movie score? I'd say somewhere south of none.


----------



## muk

dan1 said:


> otherwise they end up with scheisseload of samples dreams and debts



That is utterly hilarious. You can always buy only libraries from companies that allow reselling though. That way you can at least reduce your scheisseload of debts and samples a bit if it doesn't work out as planned.


----------



## meaks

Hello,
Quite an outstanding topic, so many things going on here !

I will share my experience because for the first years, it has been fast for me.
Coming from jazz, i decided 9 years ago to learn how to write classical music, so i came back to school learning harmony, counterpoint, orchestration, composition, etc...
3 years !! :-0 ! later, i got the opportunity to work as assistant with an actual composer for movies, and he pay me for that, i had his contact because we knew each other from a friend. 2 Years later i got an other opportunity, to arrange a part of his music for a movie, so i sent him a demo made with software libraries, he liked it, and i became arranger for him, then he ask me if i would like to become his assistant, musical editor and arranger, i said yes, until then, we have worked together on several international and national movies, and we now have a team working with different arrangers, orchestrators, sound engineers, etc... so i think my experience tells that sometimes it can be very very fast !!...
But...
Then he asked me if i wanted to start orchestrating, and here is the point, i said NO, because i thought i was not enough well-skilled for that... Why the hell i told him NO, now i'm stuck as an arranger and musical editor, it's very cool but i would have learned so much with the top orchestrators we work with !!! Experience, nothing replace experience, that is the real knowledge...

So...
Can you arrange ? If so, you can help a lot of people working in the industry, and be paid for that.
Can you edit music on computers and produce good demos ? If so, you can help a lot of people working in the industry, and be paid for that.
Can you orchestrate ? If so, you can help a lot of people working in the industry, and be paid for that.
Can you assist a composer ? If so, you can help a lot of people working in the industry, and be paid for that.

If you're working hard, then you will evolve in a social context with plenty of producers, supervisors, conductors, orchestras, players, composers, arrangers, sound engineers, assistant, lawyers, etc...
That means you could have the opportunity to be placed on a project as composer yourself, because opportunities often comes from the people around you...

Now, i know that it is difficult to work with your own name, i don't have succeeded myself on that part, but with credits, i think it's more "easy"...

So, you should focus on your social opportunities, and ask if someone is searching for help or assistant, a lot of composers needs orchestrators, editors, arranger, assistant, as composing for media is always short in time and a lot of composers working for movies or other medias work with a team to assure the deadline.

That is my advice...
Meaks, AzVO.


----------



## dannymc

> Why the hell i told him NO



fear. a natural reaction we all have to fear of failure or being found out. we just dont like to get out of our comfort zone but this is the one thing we need to do so as to keep moving forward. 

i had the same type of reaction in my day job as an engineer. you often look at the specialist guys and say to yourself they have masters degrees and PHD's there's no way i could do that. but the truth is when you start any new position whether it be music based or not nobody expects you to come in as a know-it-all. in fact they nearly prefer the opposite so that you grow into the role or position organically over time. next time it comes your way say yes, then shit your pants, then get on with being the best composer you can be. 

Danny


----------



## AlexRuger

dan1 said:


> I pooped this thread sorry didn't mean
> don't take anything from me even in real life I fail I have no girl no job no nufing
> i encourage you stars keep doing what you do best and may god be with you and blessings
> OP , money talking I saw your pic and you can be modeling it's easier money at least for yoy



Oof. Dan, for what it's worth, I listened to your UP re-score and it was fantastic. Don't be so hard on yourself. You do fantastic work. Go apply your hard-earned skills to some original projects and not just re-scores. I'd love to hear what you'd come up with.


----------



## Bradley Swaff

Jdiggity1 said:


> Teach, orchestrate, transcribe, work as a copyist, and win competitions.


Are there any websites that hire copyists, or get you work?


----------



## reddognoyz

JohnG said:


> Prostitution is always an option. Especially if you're willing to do really weird stuff.



I have barked Jingle Bells for money (toy company)... pretty sure that qualifies.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Bradley Swaff said:


> Are there any websites that hire copyists, or get you work?


Sort of. There are a large number of websites designed to help freelancers connect with employers such as elance, oDesk, Guru etc, but you might only get little bits of work from there every now and then. But don't expect to earn premium rates. The website you should put most time into is your own. Remember, people search google for services they want. You want to come up in those search results.

Like everything else in this industry, the best jobs come from who you know and word of mouth.


----------



## Desire Inspires

Wild thread here!

For me, there really isn't a way for me to become a full time musician besides luck. There is no way in the world I would ever quit a steady day job to do music full time. 

I have music in a lot of shows and with all of the pages of statements I get from ASCAP, I have almost zero chance of going full time. Financially it just would not make any sense. 

I just don't even see the need to stress about it anymore. I know that my music is licensable. I see the proof every quarter. But the money is not big enough to even imagine doing music only for a living. 

Being a professional hobbyist is good enough for me. I don't want to worry about paying bills and go without things I like just to pursue music. That is not a path to happiness for me these days. It just ain't worth it.

So don't ever feel bad for not hitting the big time. All you will do is work, work, work anyway. People get burned out from pursuing their passions too. I'd rather keep some money in my pocket than live out some dream of being an artist. I am not willing to go broke trying. 

I know enough to realize that going broke for art's sake is a silly game played by people who put dreams before reality. People play this game until they are middle-aged, wake up broke, have no transferable skill set, and wonder what happened with their lives. Forget it.


----------



## storyteller

Desire Inspires said:


> Wild thread here!
> ...
> I know enough to realize that going broke for art's sake is a silly game played by people who put dreams before reality. People play this game until they are middle-aged, wake up broke, have no transferable skill set, and wonder what happened with their lives. Forget it.


Or people hit middle age, realize that money doesn't mean anything and that they have wasted away part of a life when they could have been joyful doing what they love.  Just saying. It's all about perspective my friend.

*EDIT*: I'm 35 just to add clarity/point-of-view to the above statement.

*EDIT AGAIN*: I also don't mean become a slave to the industry. I agree that'd be worse than working a job but still enjoying music as a hobby. I guess I'm saying I hate that the need for money hinders pursuing passions for most. But it won't for long.

*EDIT AGAIN AGAIN*: After having posted about my life in another thread just prior to replying to this thread, and now seeing the comments about family and failed marriages come up, i have to say that you can give everything you have for a marriage, but it always takes two. You can give up everything for your family, and have that come to a blindsided halt. You will never lose the love of your child, and that should always be your priority. Prioritize God > Family > Self Joy > Money and you will be blessed with whatever path you choose. Change the order and it is destined for hurt. If any family member has this out of order and you have it in order, it will also lead to hurt. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Some may question self joy > money, but that order is critical, even with compromises made. For when money is placed over self joy even in compromise for family, it will inevitably cause hurt somewhere, even if it is just to yourself because that means someone else in your family has money > self joy.


----------



## jononotbono

Desire Inspires said:


> Wild thread here!
> 
> For me, there really isn't a way for me to become a full time musician besides luck. There is no way in the world I would ever quit a steady day job to do music full time.
> 
> I have music in a lot of shows and with all of the pages of statements I get from ASCAP, I have almost zero chance of going full time. Financially it just would not make any sense.
> 
> I just don't even see the need to stress about it anymore. I know that my music is licensable. I see the proof every quarter. But the money is not big enough to even imagine doing music only for a living.
> 
> Being a professional hobbyist is good enough for me. I don't want to worry about paying bills and go without things I like just to pursue music. That is not a path to happiness for me these days. It just ain't worth it.
> 
> So don't ever feel bad for not hitting the big time. All you will do is work, work, work anyway. People get burned out from pursuing their passions too. I'd rather keep some money in my pocket than live out some dream of being an artist. I am not willing to go broke trying.
> 
> I know enough to realize that going broke for art's sake is a silly game played by people who put dreams before reality. People play this game until they are middle-aged, wake up broke, have no transferable skill set, and wonder what happened with their lives. Forget it.



Anywhere online I can hear your music?


----------



## chillbot

Solid bump backed by great advice.


----------



## JohnG

I wouldn't be too hard on Desire Inspires. He seems to be honestly expressing his risk preference instead of parroting the movie-of-the-week homily of "follow your passion," oft-mouthed advice that has propelled many down a path to misery, vanity, self-delusion, and crushed hopes.

I have talked to older musicians whose marriages are falling apart and who can't pay for their kids' university or who risk losing homes. Unfortunately, as one ages, poverty becomes less appealing, not only to oneself but to others. The world loves you even if you are 50, 60, 70 years old, if you're Keith Richards. But if you are 70 and you _look_ like Keith Richards and you're -- not Keith Richards -- it's less cool.

I am very lucky to have a nice thing going on but hey, it could be all over in five minutes. And it took a while to get anywhere. I was incredibly lucky to have good teachers, a few key guys who helped me along (at the time I knew I was lucky they helped me, but only later did I realise just _how_ lucky), and I also was and am willing to work 110 hours a week to do something better than I did it the last time.

And one last thought: we are not on the earth to amuse ourselves. We are here to do our duty and, if possible, do something to amuse ourselves when we can. People with obligations can't be so free with their risks as those without.


----------



## Mike Fox

Desire Inspires said:


> Wild thread here!
> 
> For me, there really isn't a way for me to become a full time musician besides luck. There is no way in the world I would ever quit a steady day job to do music full time.
> 
> I have music in a lot of shows and with all of the pages of statements I get from ASCAP, I have almost zero chance of going full time. Financially it just would not make any sense.
> 
> I just don't even see the need to stress about it anymore. I know that my music is licensable. I see the proof every quarter. But the money is not big enough to even imagine doing music only for a living.
> 
> Being a professional hobbyist is good enough for me. I don't want to worry about paying bills and go without things I like just to pursue music. That is not a path to happiness for me these days. It just ain't worth it.
> 
> So don't ever feel bad for not hitting the big time. All you will do is work, work, work anyway. People get burned out from pursuing their passions too. I'd rather keep some money in my pocket than live out some dream of being an artist. I am not willing to go broke trying.
> 
> I know enough to realize that going broke for art's sake is a silly game played by people who put dreams before reality. People play this game until they are middle-aged, wake up broke, have no transferable skill set, and wonder what happened with their lives. Forget it.



Great post! I actually think I would hate to be a professional musician. I would hate for all the fun of writing music to disappear, and I think thats what would happen If I were to pursue a career in it. I really don't care about making money with music, but I do care about writing quality music! Being a probyist is where it's at (at least for me anyways). There's zero pressure involved, and I don't have to worry about where the next gig will come from. That kind of peace of mind is priceless.


----------



## chillbot

JohnG said:


> And one last thought: we are not on the earth to amuse ourselves. We are here to do our duty and, if possible, do something to amuse ourselves when we can.


Disagree. I like to think that you all are on earth to amuse ME.


----------



## Mike Fox

chillbot said:


> Disagree. I like to think that you all are on earth to amuse ME.


Yep. You just lost all credibility.


----------



## chillbot

mikefox789 said:


> Yep. You just lost all credibility.


So excited that at one point I had credibility! (Please tell me that's what you meant...?)


----------



## Mike Fox

JohnG said:


> I wouldn't be too hard on Desire Inspires. He seems to be honestly expressing his risk preference instead of parroting the movie-of-the-week homily of "follow your passion," oft-mouthed advice that has propelled many down a path to misery, vanity, self-delusion, and crushed hopes.
> 
> I have talked to older musicians whose marriages are falling apart and who can't pay for their kids' university or who risk losing homes. Unfortunately, as one ages, poverty becomes less appealing, not only to oneself but to others. The world loves you even if you are 50, 60, 70 years old, if you're Keith Richards. But if you are 70 and you _look_ like Keith Richards and you're -- not Keith Richards -- it's less cool.
> 
> I am very lucky to have a nice thing going on but hey, it could be all over in five minutes. And it took a while to get anywhere. I was incredibly lucky to have good teachers, a few key guys who helped me along (at the time I knew I was lucky they helped me, but only later did I realise just _how_ lucky), and I also was and am willing to work 110 hours a week to do something better than I did it the last time.
> 
> And one last thought: we are not on the earth to amuse ourselves. We are here to do our duty and, if possible, do something to amuse ourselves when we can. People with obligations can't be so free with their risks as those without.


Well said! Family is at the top of my priority list, and a failing marriage, or having kids who don't know their Dad because hes too damn busy trying to become the next Williams just wouldn't be worth it.


----------



## Mike Fox

chillbot said:


> So excited that at one point I had credibility! (Please tell me that's what you meant...?)


 Good point! I guess you can't lose what you never had.


----------



## Rodney Money

mikefox789 said:


> Well said! Family is at the top of my priority list, and a failing marriage, or having kids who don't know their Dad because hes too damn busy trying to become the next Williams just wouldn't be worth it.


So many stories of my life that I could tell y'all...


----------



## Desire Inspires

jononotbono said:


> Anywhere online I can hear your music?



Yes: https://soundcloud.com/desire_inspires


----------



## jononotbono

Desire Inspires said:


> Yes: https://soundcloud.com/desire_inspires



Thanks but too late. I found the link as soon as I asked the question. Still listening now actually. You have had your music licensed on 220 TV shows? That's a lot of TV Shows.


----------



## jononotbono

JohnG said:


> am willing to work 110 hours a week to do something better than I did it the last time.



Well, there's the difference. Great post!

I have no Plan B. Why would I? How on Earth could I achieve Plan A if I spent any of my time on any other plans? Fuck that.


----------



## Smikes77

jononotbono said:


> Well, there's the difference. Great post.
> 
> I have no Plan B. Why would I? How on Earth could I achieve Plan A if I spent any of my time on any other plans? Fuck that.



Absolutely.


----------



## Desire Inspires

jononotbono said:


> Thanks but too late. I found the link as soon as I asked the question. Still listening now actually. You have had your music licenced on 220 TV shows? That's a lot of TV Shows.



Yes. Getting placements isn't a problem. It'sjust that the backend royalties aren't enough for me to work full time on music.

Here is the list per ASCAP:

10 ON TOP 

100 DAYS OF SUMMER

40 GREATEST TRL MOMENTS

40 GREATEST YO MTV RAPS MOMENTS

40 MOST SHOCKING HIP HOP MOMENTS

50 GIRLS WHO RUN THE WORLD

50 RIDICULOUSLY RICH PEOPLE

90210

90210 (REMIX A)

90210 AMXT VERSION

ABOUT THE BUSINESS

ACCESS HOLLYWOOD

ALL ON THE LINE WITH JOE ZEE

AMERICAN PICKERS

AMERICAN RESTORATION

AMERICAN WEED

AMERICAS PREGAME

BAYOU BILLIONAIRES

BEHIND THE MUSIC

BEST IN BRIDAL

BEST WEEK EVER

BIG RICH ATLANTA

BIG RICH TEXAS

BLACK AND SEXY

BLACK INK CREW

BLOOD SWEAT AND HEELS

BOSS NAILS

BOTCHED 

BOTCHED PRESENTS PERFECT

BRACKET

BRAIN GAMES

BREAKING GREENVILLE

BRIDGE ON FUSE

BROOKLYN 11223

CASE OF JONBENET RAMSEY

CAUGHT ON CAMERA

CBS SPORTS SPECTACULAR

CEDRIC S BARBER BATTLE

CELEBRITY HOME RAIDERS

CHIQUIS N CONTROL

CHRISSY AND MR JONES

COMEDIANS IN CARS GETTING COFFEE

CONCACAF GOLD CUP

COUNTDOWN TO UFC

COUNTING CARS

CRIBS PRICIEST PADS COUNTDOWN

CURVY BRIDES

CUTTING IT IN THE ATL

CYNDI LAUPER STILL SO UNUSUAL

DANCE MOMS

DANDO CANDELA

DEMONS IN THE CITY OF ANGELS

DIAGNOSE ME

DISH NATION

DON T BE TARDY FOR THE WEDDING

DOUBLE DIVAS

DRAMA QUEEN

DUB LATINO

DUKES OF MELROSE

E! NEWS LIVE

EJNYC

EVIL TWINS

FA CUP

FAILOSOPHY

FASHION HUNTERS

FASHION POLICE

FASHION STAR BEHIND THE SCENES

FINDING MY FATHER

FIX MY MOM

FLIPPED OFF

FLIPPING OUT

FOOD PORN

FOX LIVE SPORTS

FOX SPORTS LIVE

FRIDAY NIGHT TYKES

FRIENDS OF THE PEOPLE

FUNNIEST WINS

FUSE NEWS

G THING

GANGSTERS AMERICA S MOST EVIL

GIRL CODE

GIRL GET YOUR MIND RIGHT

GIRLS WHO LIKE BOYS WHO LIKE BOYS

GOING DEEP WITH DAVID REES

GOSSIP GAME

GREATEST PARTY STORY EVER

GUY CODE

GWRU

HARD CORE PAWN

HEADHUNTRESS

HERD

HEY GIRL

HILLBILLIES FOR HIRE

HOLLYWOOD EXES

HOME GROWN MAKEOVER WITH FREDERIQUE AND

HOT LISTINGS MIAMI

HOTEL IMPOSSIBLE

HOUSE OF CURVES

HUSTLE AFTER PARTY

I FOUND THE GOWN

I LOVE JENNI

IMPRACTICAL JOKERS

INTERIOR THERAPY

JERSEY BELLE

JERSEY COUTURE

JERSEYLICIOUS

JOBS THAT DON T SUCK

JOKING OFF

K MICHELLE MY LIFE

KATHY

KEEPING UP WITH THE KARDASHIANS

KIMORA HOUSE OF FAB

KINGIN WITH TYGA

KNIFE FIGHT

LAST CALL WITH CARSON DALY

LEVANTATE

LONG ISLAND MEDIUM

LOVE AND AMP HIP HOP 5

LOVE AND AMP HIP HOP 6

LOVE AND HIP HOP

LOVE AND HIP HOP ATLANTA

LOVE AND HIP HOP HOLLYWOOD

LOVE LUST

MADE

MANZO D WITH CHILDREN

MARRIED TO MEDICINE

MARRY ME IN NYC

MARY MARY

MASTER P S FAMILY EMPIRE

MIAMI MONKEY

MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT SHOW

MLB PREGAME

MLB WHIPAROUND

MOB WIVES

MONEY POWER RESPECT

MTV2 QUICK HITS

MY FAIR WEDDING DAVID TUTERA: UNVEILED

NATE BERKUS SHOW

NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE

NELLYVILLE

NEW MONEY

NY INK

OBSESSED WITH THE DRESS

OFF THE BAT FROM THE MLB FAN CAVE

OUTRAGEOUS BIRTHS TALES FROM THE CRIB

OUTRAGEOUS KID PARTIES

PASION PROHIBIDA

PAWN STARS

PL WORLD

PREMIER LEAGUE WORLD

PRETTY STRONG

RANDY TO THE RESCUE

REAL HOUSEWIVES OF ATLANTA

REAL HOUSEWIVES OF MIAMI

REAL HOUSEWIVES OF POTOMAC

REINAS DE REALTY

RELATIVE INSANITY

REMODELED

REVEALING

RISKY LISTING

RITMO DEPORTIVO

ROCCO S DINNER PARTY

ROCK DINNER

ROSA DIAMANTE

SAY IT IN SONG

SAY YES TO THE DRESS (SEASON 8)

SAY YES TO THE DRESS 2

SAY YES TO THE DRESS ATLANTA

SAY YES TO THE DRESS BIG BLISS

SAY YES TO THE DRESS RANDY KNOWS BEST

SAY YES TO THE DRESS UNVEILED

SAY YES TO THE DRESS: SINCE THE BIG DAY

SAY YES TO THE DRESS: THE BIG DAY

SECRET GUIDE TO FABULOUS

SHAUNIE S HOME COURT

SHE S GOT GAME

SNACK OFF

SORORITY SISTERS

SOUTH BEACH TOW

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF WITH COWHERD AND WHIT

SPECIALS

START UPS SILICON VALLEY

STARTER WIVES CONFIDENTIAL

STATEN ISLAND LAW

STEVE HARVEY S3

STEVE HARVEY SHOW (2012)

SUBSTITUTE

SUELTA LA SOPA

SWAB STORIES

TEXAS WOMEN

THE DAILY HELPLINE

THE MESSAGE

THE SHEARDS

THE SISTERHOOD

THIS IS HOT 97

THIS WEEK IN WWE

TI AND TINY THE FAMILY HUSTLE

TODDLERS AND TIARAS

TOP 20 COUNTDOWN (FUSE)

TOSH 0

TRUE LIFE

TRUE LIFE PRESENTS

U S NATIONAL TEAM PREGAME

UEFA EUROPA LEAGUE PREGAME

UFC ULTIMATE INSIDER

UN NUEVO DIA

UNCOMMON SENSE

UNCOVERED

VICTORIOUS

VINDICATED

WELCOME TO FAIRFAX

WELCOME TO LOS VARGAS

WHAT NOT TO WEAR

WHEN I WAS 17

WORLDWIDE DAY OF PLAY

WRECK CHASERS

WWE COUNTDOWN

WWE LEGENDS HOUSE

XTREME WATERPARKS

YOUNG BROKE AND BEAUTIFUL


----------



## Rodney Money

Here's one way I make money. I'm not proud of it, but writing for high school and college marching bands. I've been doing it since 2000 ever since I was in college that now it takes hardly any thought to it. Write 3 charts, sometimes in just 5 to 6 days, boom $2000+. It takes longer making the sheet music look good than actually arranging the music. It makes me feel guilty seeing the crowd cheer so much, because to me I'm like, "What's the big deal?"


----------



## jononotbono

Desire Inspires said:


> Yes. Getting placements isn't a problem. It'sjust that the backend royalties aren't enough for me to work full time on music.
> 
> Here is the list per ASCAP:
> 
> 10 ON TOP
> 
> 100 DAYS OF SUMMER
> 
> 40 GREATEST TRL MOMENTS
> 
> 40 GREATEST YO MTV RAPS MOMENTS
> 
> 40 MOST SHOCKING HIP HOP MOMENTS
> 
> 50 GIRLS WHO RUN THE WORLD
> 
> 50 RIDICULOUSLY RICH PEOPLE
> 
> 90210
> 
> 90210 (REMIX A)
> 
> 90210 AMXT VERSION
> 
> ABOUT THE BUSINESS
> 
> ACCESS HOLLYWOOD
> 
> ALL ON THE LINE WITH JOE ZEE
> 
> AMERICAN PICKERS
> 
> AMERICAN RESTORATION
> 
> AMERICAN WEED
> 
> AMERICAS PREGAME
> 
> BAYOU BILLIONAIRES
> 
> BEHIND THE MUSIC
> 
> BEST IN BRIDAL
> 
> BEST WEEK EVER
> 
> BIG RICH ATLANTA
> 
> BIG RICH TEXAS
> 
> BLACK AND SEXY
> 
> BLACK INK CREW
> 
> BLOOD SWEAT AND HEELS
> 
> BOSS NAILS
> 
> BOTCHED
> 
> BOTCHED PRESENTS PERFECT
> 
> BRACKET
> 
> BRAIN GAMES
> 
> BREAKING GREENVILLE
> 
> BRIDGE ON FUSE
> 
> BROOKLYN 11223
> 
> CASE OF JONBENET RAMSEY
> 
> CAUGHT ON CAMERA
> 
> CBS SPORTS SPECTACULAR
> 
> CEDRIC S BARBER BATTLE
> 
> CELEBRITY HOME RAIDERS
> 
> CHIQUIS N CONTROL
> 
> CHRISSY AND MR JONES
> 
> COMEDIANS IN CARS GETTING COFFEE
> 
> CONCACAF GOLD CUP
> 
> COUNTDOWN TO UFC
> 
> COUNTING CARS
> 
> CRIBS PRICIEST PADS COUNTDOWN
> 
> CURVY BRIDES
> 
> CUTTING IT IN THE ATL
> 
> CYNDI LAUPER STILL SO UNUSUAL
> 
> DANCE MOMS
> 
> DANDO CANDELA
> 
> DEMONS IN THE CITY OF ANGELS
> 
> DIAGNOSE ME
> 
> DISH NATION
> 
> DON T BE TARDY FOR THE WEDDING
> 
> DOUBLE DIVAS
> 
> DRAMA QUEEN
> 
> DUB LATINO
> 
> DUKES OF MELROSE
> 
> E! NEWS LIVE
> 
> EJNYC
> 
> EVIL TWINS
> 
> FA CUP
> 
> FAILOSOPHY
> 
> FASHION HUNTERS
> 
> FASHION POLICE
> 
> FASHION STAR BEHIND THE SCENES
> 
> FINDING MY FATHER
> 
> FIX MY MOM
> 
> FLIPPED OFF
> 
> FLIPPING OUT
> 
> FOOD PORN
> 
> FOX LIVE SPORTS
> 
> FOX SPORTS LIVE
> 
> FRIDAY NIGHT TYKES
> 
> FRIENDS OF THE PEOPLE
> 
> FUNNIEST WINS
> 
> FUSE NEWS
> 
> G THING
> 
> GANGSTERS AMERICA S MOST EVIL
> 
> GIRL CODE
> 
> GIRL GET YOUR MIND RIGHT
> 
> GIRLS WHO LIKE BOYS WHO LIKE BOYS
> 
> GOING DEEP WITH DAVID REES
> 
> GOSSIP GAME
> 
> GREATEST PARTY STORY EVER
> 
> GUY CODE
> 
> GWRU
> 
> HARD CORE PAWN
> 
> HEADHUNTRESS
> 
> HERD
> 
> HEY GIRL
> 
> HILLBILLIES FOR HIRE
> 
> HOLLYWOOD EXES
> 
> HOME GROWN MAKEOVER WITH FREDERIQUE AND
> 
> HOT LISTINGS MIAMI
> 
> HOTEL IMPOSSIBLE
> 
> HOUSE OF CURVES
> 
> HUSTLE AFTER PARTY
> 
> I FOUND THE GOWN
> 
> I LOVE JENNI
> 
> IMPRACTICAL JOKERS
> 
> INTERIOR THERAPY
> 
> JERSEY BELLE
> 
> JERSEY COUTURE
> 
> JERSEYLICIOUS
> 
> JOBS THAT DON T SUCK
> 
> JOKING OFF
> 
> K MICHELLE MY LIFE
> 
> KATHY
> 
> KEEPING UP WITH THE KARDASHIANS
> 
> KIMORA HOUSE OF FAB
> 
> KINGIN WITH TYGA
> 
> KNIFE FIGHT
> 
> LAST CALL WITH CARSON DALY
> 
> LEVANTATE
> 
> LONG ISLAND MEDIUM
> 
> LOVE AND AMP HIP HOP 5
> 
> LOVE AND AMP HIP HOP 6
> 
> LOVE AND HIP HOP
> 
> LOVE AND HIP HOP ATLANTA
> 
> LOVE AND HIP HOP HOLLYWOOD
> 
> LOVE LUST
> 
> MADE
> 
> MANZO D WITH CHILDREN
> 
> MARRIED TO MEDICINE
> 
> MARRY ME IN NYC
> 
> MARY MARY
> 
> MASTER P S FAMILY EMPIRE
> 
> MIAMI MONKEY
> 
> MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT SHOW
> 
> MLB PREGAME
> 
> MLB WHIPAROUND
> 
> MOB WIVES
> 
> MONEY POWER RESPECT
> 
> MTV2 QUICK HITS
> 
> MY FAIR WEDDING DAVID TUTERA: UNVEILED
> 
> NATE BERKUS SHOW
> 
> NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE
> 
> NELLYVILLE
> 
> NEW MONEY
> 
> NY INK
> 
> OBSESSED WITH THE DRESS
> 
> OFF THE BAT FROM THE MLB FAN CAVE
> 
> OUTRAGEOUS BIRTHS TALES FROM THE CRIB
> 
> OUTRAGEOUS KID PARTIES
> 
> PASION PROHIBIDA
> 
> PAWN STARS
> 
> PL WORLD
> 
> PREMIER LEAGUE WORLD
> 
> PRETTY STRONG
> 
> RANDY TO THE RESCUE
> 
> REAL HOUSEWIVES OF ATLANTA
> 
> REAL HOUSEWIVES OF MIAMI
> 
> REAL HOUSEWIVES OF POTOMAC
> 
> REINAS DE REALTY
> 
> RELATIVE INSANITY
> 
> REMODELED
> 
> REVEALING
> 
> RISKY LISTING
> 
> RITMO DEPORTIVO
> 
> ROCCO S DINNER PARTY
> 
> ROCK DINNER
> 
> ROSA DIAMANTE
> 
> SAY IT IN SONG
> 
> SAY YES TO THE DRESS (SEASON 8)
> 
> SAY YES TO THE DRESS 2
> 
> SAY YES TO THE DRESS ATLANTA
> 
> SAY YES TO THE DRESS BIG BLISS
> 
> SAY YES TO THE DRESS RANDY KNOWS BEST
> 
> SAY YES TO THE DRESS UNVEILED
> 
> SAY YES TO THE DRESS: SINCE THE BIG DAY
> 
> SAY YES TO THE DRESS: THE BIG DAY
> 
> SECRET GUIDE TO FABULOUS
> 
> SHAUNIE S HOME COURT
> 
> SHE S GOT GAME
> 
> SNACK OFF
> 
> SORORITY SISTERS
> 
> SOUTH BEACH TOW
> 
> SPEAK FOR YOURSELF WITH COWHERD AND WHIT
> 
> SPECIALS
> 
> START UPS SILICON VALLEY
> 
> STARTER WIVES CONFIDENTIAL
> 
> STATEN ISLAND LAW
> 
> STEVE HARVEY S3
> 
> STEVE HARVEY SHOW (2012)
> 
> SUBSTITUTE
> 
> SUELTA LA SOPA
> 
> SWAB STORIES
> 
> TEXAS WOMEN
> 
> THE DAILY HELPLINE
> 
> THE MESSAGE
> 
> THE SHEARDS
> 
> THE SISTERHOOD
> 
> THIS IS HOT 97
> 
> THIS WEEK IN WWE
> 
> TI AND TINY THE FAMILY HUSTLE
> 
> TODDLERS AND TIARAS
> 
> TOP 20 COUNTDOWN (FUSE)
> 
> TOSH 0
> 
> TRUE LIFE
> 
> TRUE LIFE PRESENTS
> 
> U S NATIONAL TEAM PREGAME
> 
> UEFA EUROPA LEAGUE PREGAME
> 
> UFC ULTIMATE INSIDER
> 
> UN NUEVO DIA
> 
> UNCOMMON SENSE
> 
> UNCOVERED
> 
> VICTORIOUS
> 
> VINDICATED
> 
> WELCOME TO FAIRFAX
> 
> WELCOME TO LOS VARGAS
> 
> WHAT NOT TO WEAR
> 
> WHEN I WAS 17
> 
> WORLDWIDE DAY OF PLAY
> 
> WRECK CHASERS
> 
> WWE COUNTDOWN
> 
> WWE LEGENDS HOUSE
> 
> XTREME WATERPARKS
> 
> YOUNG BROKE AND BEAUTIFUL



Thanks! Although I wasn't asking for proof/evidence! I only asked because 220 TV Shows is a lot. Does it make me a bad person if I haven't watched any of these shows? Sorry, there's just not enough time in my day to do so. It's amazing how much stuff is out there really! Incredible times.


----------



## storyteller

Though I edited my last post to include this, I thought it was important to add here for those that might not go back and reread previous posts.

Just to clarify, my previous post didn't mean to become a slave to the industry. I agree that could be worse than working an alternative job but still enjoying music as a hobby. I guess I'm saying I hate that the need for money hinders pursuing passions for most. 

After having posted about my life in another thread just prior to replying to this thread, and now seeing the comments about family and failed marriages come up, i have to say that you can give everything you have for a marriage, but it always takes two. You can give up everything for your family, and have that come to a blindsided halt. You will never lose the love of your child, and that should always be your priority. Prioritize God > Family > Self Joy > Money and you will be blessed with whatever path you choose. Change the order and it is destined for hurt. If any family member has this out of order and you have it in order, it will also lead to hurt. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Some may question self joy > money, but that order is critical, even with compromises made. For when money is placed over self joy even in compromise for family, it will inevitably cause hurt somewhere, even if it is just to yourself because that means someone else in your family has money or self joy > family.


----------



## chillbot

mikefox789 said:


> Well said! Family is at the top of my priority list, and a failing marriage, or having kids who don't know their Dad because hes too damn busy trying to become the next Williams just wouldn't be worth it.


I'm confused though... what if I told you you could both follow your passion AND balance and support a happy family? That would be a pretty good option. You make it sound like it's one or the other.


----------



## jononotbono

chillbot said:


> I'm confused though... what if I told you you could both follow your passion AND balance and support a happy family?



Which one? Spitfire or 8Dio?


----------



## Mike Fox

chillbot said:


> I'm confused though... what if I told you you could both follow your passion AND balance and support a happy family? That would be a pretty good option. You make it sound like it's one or the other.



I'd call you a liar, because you can't do both! Just kidding. I know it's definitely possible, and I gotta hand it to the guys that have made that dream a reality for them, but they are the exception to the rule.


----------



## SillyMidOn

mikefox789 said:


> Well said! Family is at the top of my priority list, and a failing marriage, or having kids who don't know their Dad because hes too damn busy trying to become the next Williams just wouldn't be worth it.


It is possible, but by no means easy to have both. I gave up performing, because it was wholly incompatible to me with having a decent family life - you are always working nights and weekends, very antisocial, but hey, some people make it work.

If you are working as a composer, make sure your studio is actually at home, not in a separate location (I realise this complicates things in terms of finding the right house that can both be a family home and have a decent studio space), that way you can do long hours and still see a lot of your loved ones.


----------



## Parsifal666

Find a really good costume designer, skilled camera person, and wardrobe technician. Have a friend book you for a gig, then dress up like a zombie and throw around bloody lamb meat on stage. You'll almost certainly made a decent amount of quick cash. People won't be listening much to your music at the show because of the spectacle, but once on youtube there will be more people interested.


----------



## SillyMidOn

Rodney Money said:


> Here's one way I make money. I'm not proud of it,




Hey man, don't be hard on yourself, that IS something to be proud of: you are making a full-time a career out of something creative you love.


Rodney Money said:


> It takes longer making the sheet music look good than actually arranging the music. It makes me feel guilty seeing the crowd cheer so much, because to me I'm like, "What's the big deal?"




Haha, I commiserate. I just had that the last two days. My idea of hell: editing individual parts in Sibelius once you've hit that dreaded "Extract Parts" button, and finding what an utterly awful layout Sibelius has come up with, when I spent all that time making the full score looking so neat, finding Coda signs way outside the margins so I can't get to them, etc etc....

That "Extract Parts" button should come with the high strings theme from Psycho, so when you click it, it goes : shriek, shriek, shriek....

Or maybe the theme from Jaws, as your mouse button starts hovering over it.... Dum Dum Dum Dum...

Arghhhhh!


----------



## Parsifal666

All of my (bad) jokes aside, in today's music world I honestly have no idea how to make quick cash as a composer. The market is so, insanely stuffed. I guess if you became the Brahms of movie trailers you'd make out good, but I seriously doubt in the short term.

Very sorry, I just know one heck of a lot of musical people whom are struggling to make any money from what they love today. As great as the laptop revolution in music has been, it means the competition is beyond fierce (not that the said competition are altogether good composers...nuh uh).

Every now and then I take a gander at youtube and check out some of the latest stuff that's popular. Every time I do this I end up a bit mortified; there is a plethora completely unoriginal, expressionless hunks of musical garbage out there that garner over a million views.

Please don't take the above as a discouragement, instead turn it into further motivation.

Be the most incredibly best you can be, and at least a modicum of success (i.e. being able to at least pay your bills) is possible.


----------



## chillbot

There is a gigantic hole in this forum, at least in the 2 1/2 years or so I've been here... which is that people either discuss on the one end writing for film or on the other end writing for libraries. No one ever talks about writing for television. I suspect that most people here think "writing for television" equals "writing for libraries" and then getting placements in television shows.

Not that I really want this to get out there, but if you want to make quick money as a composer it's writing for television. You can make nice money upfront and then again on the backend. In some [getting much rarer] cases you can even keep ownership of the music. So in the best-case scenario you can get paid $200/minute up-front to write music, then get paid royalties as both a composer AND a publisher, and you still own all the music, you're out zero and up big. More common you don't retain ownership or get royalties as a publisher but it's still a hell of a lot better than writing for libraries, which is ALL I ever hear about on here (EDIT: OR EPIC TRAILERS!). Why stress about all the different library companies and give away such a huge percentage of your music and hope that somebody buys it and you build up enough of a library to make a few bucks when you can get paid to write music and have guaranteed royalties at the same time.

Go get hired to write music for a TV show it seems to be a well-kept secret. Not saying it's easy but given all of the effort everyone seems to put into libraries maybe that effort could be refocused a bit...


----------



## JohnG

jononotbono said:


> Does it make me a bad person if I haven't watched any of these shows?



Yes. If you haven't watched YOUNG BROKE AND BEAUTIFUL, you are a bad person.


----------



## Mike Fox

chillbot said:


> There is a gigantic hole in this forum, at least in the 2 1/2 years or so I've been here... which is that people either discuss on the one end writing for film or on the other end writing for libraries. No one ever talks about writing for television. I suspect that most people here think "writing for television" equals "writing for libraries" and then getting placements in television shows.
> 
> Not that I really want this to get out there, but if you want to make quick money as a composer it's writing for television. You can make nice money upfront and then again on the backend. In some [getting much rarer] cases you can even keep ownership of the music. So in the best-case scenario you can get paid $200/minute up-front to write music, then get paid royalties as both a composer AND a publisher, and you still own all the music, you're out zero and up big. More common you don't retain ownership or get royalties as a publisher but it's still a hell of a lot better than writing for libraries, which is ALL I ever hear about on here (EDIT: OR EPIC TRAILERS!). Why stress about all the different library companies and give away such a huge percentage of your music and hope that somebody buys it and you build up enough of a library to make a few bucks when you can get paid to write music and have guaranteed royalties at the same time.
> 
> Go get hired to write music for a TV show it seems to be a well-kept secret. Not saying it's easy but given all of the effort everyone seems to put into libraries maybe that effort could be refocused a bit...


And where exactly are these get rich quick jobs? Seems like the most difficult part about this is developing a solid network that opens doorways. I dunno?


----------



## InLight-Tone

Don't forget that YouTube is the new "TV". Sure there are tons more composers out there competing but there is also a ton more media that needs music written. Sure it's not the same as the "good old days" but opportunities abound. Glass half empty? Impressive resume there Desire...


----------



## Rodney Money

You know a trick that some composers do is hang out at other forums that concentrate on developing music for games, smaller budget films, and other forms of media. Also, there is even a market out there for doing trailers for book releases.


----------



## chillbot

mikefox789 said:


> And where exactly are these get rich quick jobs?


You are correct, they do not exist! Please disregard my post my apologies.


----------



## JohnG

As comforting as it may be to hang around with musicians, they don't hire us. Directors and producers hire us, whether it's games, TV, or movies. So think about how to meet that crowd and go do it. If you live in a big city, go to the film school and hang around with people, or just go to screenings if you can. Filmmakers don't (typically) like talking about music, they like talking about films. 

Game guys actually _do_ like talking about music, from what I've seen. There are video game programs at some major universities now; the son of one of my friends enrolled in one at Chicago, an excellent school.

But the point is you have to find those people, not -- us.

PS -- also, you can get great tips from YOUNG BROKE AND BEAUTIFUL. Not about music jobs, but about _life!_


----------



## Mike Fox

chillbot said:


> You are correct, they do not exist! Please disregard my post my apologies.


It was a legitimate question.


----------



## chillbot

mikefox789 said:


> It was a legitimate question.


My apologies (again), Trump has made me overly snarky I’m not usually like this.

You seem like a bit of a pessimist, demanding to know where these “get rich quick jobs” are. I can’t tell you that I don’t even know where you live. Yes you have to work at it and put yourself out there and make connections and get lucky like anything else.

I made an observation, that the possibility exists of getting paid a lot of money to write music in what I perceive to be a widely untapped market (at least around this forum). I also observed that it is possible to balance a fulfilling career with a happy family and you seemed skeptical of that as well. Maybe I am too much the optimist but I don’t consider either of these things to be the “exception to the rule”.

If you continue to be skeptical you are always welcome to compete with everyone else in the library music sweepstakes. Certainly give them your music for free and give them a cut of it while you’re at it, instead of getting rid of the middleman and going directly to the source. There’s always the day job, right?

I’m not sure that one approach is any more or less difficult than the other approach, it’s just an option to consider.

Also I couldn’t golf if I wasn’t an optimist. I can't even imagine.


----------



## Parsifal666

I pay my rent and bills with music (my wife has to work too, for everything other than), and I'm grateful. But I spent years studying...I'm still studying.

I made a few good choices (and a mythically huge stroke of luck) early on, and that's how I've been able to at least survive, since late 2010.

I started out trying to find a Rock vocalist to do session work for my music; he was in an old 70s band I liked and I just loved his voice and style. Well, I just researched like heck and found one of his distributors. I lucked out as the distributor did, indeed, know not just this one singer but several others I had grown up listening to.

I was worried when I first started sending them demos/vocal sketches because they were all Rock stars back when I was a little boy, but I did well enough to not only get past their quality control, but to have them hounding me for new stuff all this time.

So, there was luck in stumbling upon a connection, but if I hadn't had at least acceptable music (and that pretty much describes it imo), I never would have made such a continually paying score.

Okay everyone can take a nap if they want.


----------



## Mithrandir

Parsifal666 said:


> I guess if you became the Brahms of movie trailers you'd make out good, but I seriously doubt in the short term.



There are enough braahms in movie trailers already.


----------



## Parsifal666

Mithrandir said:


> There are enough braahms in movie trailers already.



POST OF THE DAY! SOUND THE EAST WEST HOLLYWOOD LOW BRASS!


----------



## mac

chillbot said:


> There is a gigantic hole in this forum, at least in the 2 1/2 years or so I've been here... which is that people either discuss on the one end writing for film or on the other end writing for libraries. No one ever talks about writing for television. I suspect that most people here think "writing for television" equals "writing for libraries" and then getting placements in television shows.
> 
> Not that I really want this to get out there, but if you want to make quick money as a composer it's writing for television. You can make nice money upfront and then again on the backend. In some [getting much rarer] cases you can even keep ownership of the music. So in the best-case scenario you can get paid $200/minute up-front to write music, then get paid royalties as both a composer AND a publisher, and you still own all the music, you're out zero and up big. More common you don't retain ownership or get royalties as a publisher but it's still a hell of a lot better than writing for libraries, which is ALL I ever hear about on here (EDIT: OR EPIC TRAILERS!). Why stress about all the different library companies and give away such a huge percentage of your music and hope that somebody buys it and you build up enough of a library to make a few bucks when you can get paid to write music and have guaranteed royalties at the same time.
> 
> Go get hired to write music for a TV show it seems to be a well-kept secret. Not saying it's easy but given all of the effort everyone seems to put into libraries maybe that effort could be refocused a bit...



I'm sure Ramin Djawadi would agree with this, he seem's to be doing ok for himself.


----------



## Mike Fox

chillbot said:


> My apologies (again), Trump has made me overly snarky I’m not usually like this.



You and me both!


----------



## Baron Greuner

chillbot said:


> Also I couldn’t golf if I wasn’t an optimist. I can't even imagine.



You have to be an optimist with your swing. Whaaaaaaaaat?


----------



## Greg

Just get a real part time job. Great art always comes out of oppression


----------



## chillbot

Baron Greuner said:


> You have to be an optimist with your swing. Whaaaaaaaaat?


Two buddies are out on the golf course and step up to a short par 4.
One of the men absolutely crushes a drive... 310 yards down straight down the middle. He is looking at a little 40 yard chip shot at the perfect angle to get close for birdie.
He stands over his ball and instead of beaming about hitting such a beautiful shot, his legs get a little weak... the first thing he thinks to himself is: now how can I f**k THIS up!

Sorry this is not a joke... this is golf. The punchline is he scalds it over the green and into the lake, takes a drop, duffs a chip, three putts, and cards a snowman on the hole.

Why do I keep going back for this?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Chill, you need to get some lag in your life.


----------



## dcoscina

Depends on what is important to you. If it's artistic integrity and the ability to have your creation unscathed by other opinions that might influence it, yeah, try teaching and then composing for orchestra competitions or get commissions. If you want to pursue commercial music, well, as many have said, that's a field that has tons of competition so you might need to make ends meet with some non music occupations. 

Assassin is a pretty flexible schedule provided you have ample training in weapons and hand to hand combat. 

Or do what Charles Ives did which is work at a totally non related day job and compose whatever the hell you feel like at night.


----------



## ravelfan

It's been over 2 years since this thread started. I wonder how things have turned out?


----------



## Bradley Swaff

Desire Inspires said:


> Wild thread here!
> 
> For me, there really isn't a way for me to become a full time musician besides luck. There is no way in the world I would ever quit a steady day job to do music full time.
> 
> I have music in a lot of shows and with all of the pages of statements I get from ASCAP, I have almost zero chance of going full time. Financially it just would not make any sense.
> 
> I just don't even see the need to stress about it anymore. I know that my music is licensable. I see the proof every quarter. But the money is not big enough to even imagine doing music only for a living.
> 
> Being a professional hobbyist is good enough for me. I don't want to worry about paying bills and go without things I like just to pursue music. That is not a path to happiness for me these days. It just ain't worth it.
> 
> So don't ever feel bad for not hitting the big time. All you will do is work, work, work anyway. People get burned out from pursuing their passions too. I'd rather keep some money in my pocket than live out some dream of being an artist. I am not willing to go broke trying.
> 
> I know enough to realize that going broke for art's sake is a silly game played by people who put dreams before reality. People play this game until they are middle-aged, wake up broke, have no transferable skill set, and wonder what happened with their lives. Forget it.



Thank you sir, for your reply! I really appreciate it. I've only had one song licensed so far, but I've only gotten my music represented by one publishers so far, K&W Publishing. Are there any others you suggest I work with, or a list of them anywhere?


----------



## Desire Inspires

Bradley Swaff said:


> Thank you sir, for your reply! I really appreciate it. I've only had one song licensed so far, but I've only gotten my music represented by one publishers so far, K&W Publishing. Are there any others you suggest I work with, or a list of them anywhere?




There is a long list of companies for you to research. Here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12211039-post14.html


----------



## Desire Inspires

Do the work


----------



## Jdiggity1

Desire Inspires said:


> Do the work


Damn man. You jumped the gun by about a week.
At least wait til the anniversary


----------



## Desire Inspires

Jdiggity1 said:


> Damn man. You jumped the gun by about a week.
> At least wait til the anniversary



Hell no!


----------



## ptram

The only way I can think of is this one:

http://i.imgur.com/iZc7h.jpg


----------



## AdamAlake

adam_lukas said:


> You can't be the perfect person in this world. But I guess there are some things one should avoid, because they do harm.
> 
> Big companies like food chains can be a huge credit and great exposure. But one has to keep in mind that you give your name for this project - you help building it up.
> 
> The thing is I work on an Apple Mac Pro so I should better shut up before I'm starting to moralize here



Literally irrelevant. If you pass up the job, someone else will do it, you are not stopping anything. Aside from cash entering your wallet


----------



## GtrString

I don't know of any other line of work that is slower to generate money than composing music. I don't think your need for money can sustain your motivation for doing this, because it can take a long long time, if you're able to monetarize your work at all.

I like the way Walt Disney put it - I don't do movies, to make money. I make money to do movies.

The same, pretty much, applies to music.


----------



## Christof

adam_lukas started this thread 3 years ago!
As far as I know he found his way into the film music business...sucessfully!


----------



## adam_lukas

Christof said:


> adam_lukas started this thread 3 years ago!
> As far as I know he found his way into the film music business...sucessfully!



Hi guys! Yes, I started this thread 3 years ago. Wow, so much happened since then - I can say that I'm perfectly fine now.

1.) I just kept on doing. I can tell from now that I've just been impatient. 
2.) I learned my craft. Everyday - reading along the scores of the masters, experimenting with music production techniques when I was sitting there without a job. 
3.) People helped me out! @Christof for example connected me to some great people I constantly now work with.
4.) I connected to real people and attended festivals/screenings. Emails just don't work, even if you write them as personally as it gets via mail.
5.) I had luck. But I put myself in a position where I really would get lucky and things might happen at all.

Thank you all for your contributions to this thread! 
I hope that others that currently or temporally need advice on acquisition will benefit from it.

All the best from Vienna,
Adam


----------



## MatFluor

Great to hear Adam!

As starting out guy myself, that takes some gloom away 

I hope to be able to say the same in a few years. Greets from Switzerland


----------



## Vicky

adam_lukas said:


> Hi guys! Yes, I started this thread 3 years ago. Wow, so much happened since then - I can say that I'm perfectly fine now.



So this makes it evident that a dream can come true and real in a three years period, so great and inspiring


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

3 years is nothing when you’re trying to build a successful career. My first 3 years were up, up, up... for the first 6 months. This was followed mostly by the sound of crickets for the next 2.5 years. Luckily, I had some financial and emotional support from friends and family. My income only became steady and reliable after 10 years. So hang in there, folks!


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

adam_lukas said:


> 4.) I connected to real people and attended festivals/screenings. Emails just don't work, even if you write them as personally as it gets via mail.
> 5.) I had luck. But I put myself in a position where I really would get lucky and things might happen at all.



IMO, these points (plus persistence) are the biggest factors.

regarding emails...you just never know. The best contact I ever made was because of a cold email I sent, but again, it was being in the right place at the right time.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

It doesn’t hurt to have/make friends who are editors.


----------

