# Begging the directors for silence!!!



## Studio E (Sep 10, 2019)

Lol, I just basically finished a horror short for a couple directors who I've worked for a lot. The film starts with two minutes of just life happening, some family dialogue, at a fairly quick pace, people talking over each other etc... So I tell the directors right up front, this front-end of the film doesn't really need music. They told me that while the real need for the major music is after the first two minutes, they'd be fine with me working on the rest of the film and circling back around for the beginning scene(s).

So i go onto the task of scoring about 10 minutes of quiet horror with a few big bangs along the way. I hit a tone that the directors (there's two of them) just totally love. They like the motifs, they like the sounds..... They give me a few notes and adjustments, but everything is going extremely well. 

After about ten days of off and on work, I finish all of the film except that front end. I then reiterate to the directors that it does not need music, but they still want something. I still had a couple corrections to do plus the mix, so I told them I'd figure something out and just had it in my mind that the additional music was just part of the overall punch list at this point. 

So then I'm down to ONLY having to do that part. I watch it and watch it and watch it. I improvise but everything that comes to me intuitively really lessens the film. I mean, their edit is perfect, the acting is really freaking good, as is the timing of the lines. The silence even adds to the tension of a light-hearted moment.

So finally, after all of the other facebook messages we had sent back and forth in short discussions, I wrote them a short book about how passionate I was as their friend, as a fan of the film, and as the composer they love and trust to all their projects. I basically said that I thought that the film was amazing and that anything I would do at that point would lessen the film, would make it a cheap caricature of the film it's supposed to be. I begged them as someone with total respect for the film and their craft, to leave it alone to let the film be what it was made to be.

They said they would consider it, lol. Ugh..... fingers crossed. I LOVE writing music for film when it calls for it, and sometimes it can be tricky. It can be hard to find the tone, the pace, to stay ambiguous, etc etc....but this film NEEDS this silence and I don't think I've ever fought for silence so much before, lol. It feels great to work on something good enough that it instills that level of confidence over what is right and wrong.

I hope I can post the film sometime in the near future. It's heading off to the HP Lovecraft film festival this week.


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## gsilbers (Sep 11, 2019)

i think there should be more music in film school courses. they probably just think that the moments of silence need something over it because the original audio sounds like crap and have an unconcious urge to burry it w something. kinda like how reality tv shows are. and also those action films where is always that chug spicc strings underneath dialogue for a sense of urgency.


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## jononotbono (Sep 11, 2019)

It’s their film. Just give them what they want.


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## markd (Sep 11, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> It’s their film. Just give them what they want.


I agree. It's their film. They're your boss. They're the one that's paying you. 

Express your opinion and discuss it. But at the end of the day, they make the decisions. I've found that the more you "argue" about things like that, the less amicable the relationship becomes.


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## Studio E (Sep 11, 2019)

Sorry but I have to disagree for art’s sake. What’s best for the film is what’s best for the film, and pointing that out is my duty as a collaborator. In the end, had they disagreed, I would have done what they wanted, but as it stands, they have agreed with me.

From last night’s communication:

“_We both agreed that we really trust your judgement too, so the fact that you can't come up with a musical idea you feel works there probably means it doesn't exist.”_


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## Crowe (Sep 11, 2019)

markd said:


> I agree. It's their film. They're your boss. They're the one that's paying you.
> 
> Express your opinion and discuss it. But at the end of the day, they make the decisions. I've found that the more you "argue" about things like that, the less amicable the relationship becomes.



Sorry, but the way this advice is presented makes it *bad advice*. I see what you're trying to say, but rolling over because the customer says 'play dead' when they're paying you to be a cat is not professionalism.

I've found that POCs (Proof of Concepts) are extremely useful to illustrate what you mean. Never just give in to what you perceive to be a bad decision. Explain why you're hesitant, and *show* the customer what you mean and what you're talking about. This part is vital, you need to fully illustrate why you're *advising* something. You're gonna have to make two cuts.

The bottom line is that, if you've shown them and they still want what they said they want, you do it. No questions asked. But this is supposed to be your area of expertise. Be professional. I will never just do a bad implementation because the customer demands it without a fight. There's a reason I'm doing *this* job, not something else. Because if they figure out that was indeed a bad idea, it's going to be on you.

Always give customers a choice, but make them acutely aware of what they're choosing. This is your reputation we're talking about.

Of course, be subtle. Don't say 'this is stupid, don't do that'. Say, 'this is what it's going to be like with what you're asking, it's possibly going to cause this, and I, as a consultant, advise you to try this different thing'. And then show them the difference. Ask them after if they still stand by their decision. Don't ever flat out refuse though.

Edit: I realise that I'm not completely sure just how adamant you've been until now. It's quite possible that you've already played your cards and now you'll just have to do it because they've already refused a change once. It's a social game, after all. Maybe in this particular case, just give them what they want to the best of your ability and write the addendum that you still really advise them to reconsider. That way, all your bases are covered.

Musical advise: You can try to go for very subtle backdrops that are opposite to the themes you've introduced later on, just to accent the juxtaposition. I guess I'd default to that idea, in this case.


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## GtrString (Sep 11, 2019)

If not music, you could still underscore with some ambiance and sound design and give them some sound that a way. Should be an easy thing to do, then they can decide if they need/ like it when editing. Things can change up a lot in the final edit anyway, so it could be good for everyone to have an abundance of options.. dont you think?


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## markd (Sep 11, 2019)

Ok, I worded my response badly...oops! 

I definitely don't mean to "roll over" and do as you're told"! Absolutely discuss your ideas and concerns with the directors/producers  I do that all the time, Sometimes the director changes their mind and uses the composer's idea, other times, the director is adamant about what he/she wants.

At the end of the day, it's all about expressing artistic ideas and nobody's right or wrong


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## Crowe (Sep 11, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> It’s their film. Just give them what they want.



That's odd. I've been reliably informed that film-making is a team sport .


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## markd (Sep 11, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> That's odd. I've been reliably informed that film-making is a team sport.


Oh, how I wish that was true sometimes! lol!


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## d.healey (Sep 11, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> That's odd. I've been reliably informed that film-making is a team sport .


Yup... depending on the person "in-charge". I have shot a few short films and each time I treat everyone involved as a "film maker". We are all making the film and sometimes the people in charge recognize that, sometimes they don't. If you're part of a good production then you're a collaborator, the rest of the time you're work for hire.


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## Crowe (Sep 11, 2019)

Something that just occurred to me:

Look at it from a different angle, is there a possibility the film-makers want to add music to the beginning of the film because having 10 minutes of musical silence in an otherwise music-filled _horror _film can lead to some weird overal effects to how the film is (subconsciously) percieved?


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## markd (Sep 11, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> Something that just occurred to me:
> 
> Look at it from a different angle, is there a possibility the film-makers want to add music to the beginning of the film because having 10 minutes of musical silence in an otherwise music-filled _horror _film can lead to some weird overal effects to how the film is (subconsciously) percieved?


That's a good possibility. I just scored a short drama film and I left two small spots without music (for dramatic effect). The director asked me to put music in both places because "both those places stood out as wrong because the rest of the film had music".


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## NoamL (Sep 11, 2019)

In the end it's the director's film but you should absolutely make the case that selective spotting is effective spotting.

Scoring every scene is like if you were studying a textbook and highlighted every sentence in magic marker. When everything is highlighted nothing is highlighted.

I wouldn't make the conversation about "THIS scene doesn't need music" or "I can't think of something for THIS scene." I would make it about, where is the music most needed and how do we get in and out of those moments.

It's also worth flipping the script and looking at it from their POV. They made this film they really want to be proud of, but maybe the beginning of the film is a little mundane and doesn't really grab the audience. They don't want people to judge the film by the first 2 minutes or the first 30 seconds so they're leaning on you the composer to add production value. I'm not saying this is what's going on for certain but it seems possible. How can you as the composer solve that problem for them.


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## Loïc D (Sep 11, 2019)

Inverse psychology : score some loud techno-polka and they’ll probably eventually choose the silent option.
Or keep the techno-polka.
Or fire you.
Or ask for grindcore-menuet instead...


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## jononotbono (Sep 11, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> That's odd. I've been reliably informed that film-making is a team sport .



I haven’t said anything about film making not being a team endeavour. I thought that was obvious hence why I didn’t say it. “The Director” is the author of a film. Therefore it is their film. Nothing “odd” about anything I have said. Each to their own though.

Glad the OP has come to an accord with his suggestions and ideas. It’s a good feeling.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Sep 11, 2019)

gsilbers said:


> i think there should be more music in film school courses. they probably just think that the moments of silence need something over it because the original audio sounds like crap and have an unconcious urge to burry it w something. kinda like how reality tv shows are. and also those action films where is always that chug spicc strings underneath dialogue for a sense of urgency.


Regretfully I went to a ~top film school~ and the one music for film class I took completely fucking sucked. But I think teaching a director how to use music is tough. It’s something you have to develop a feel for (or perhaps either you have a feel for it or you don’t).


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## robgb (Sep 11, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> It’s their film. Just give them what they want.


I disagree. When you're hired as composer, you aren't just providing background music, you are a member of the filmmaking team. Sure, they can overrule you, but there's nothing wrong with fighting for what you feel is right for the film.



jononotbono said:


> “The Director” is the author of a film.



Oh, and as a former screenwriter, I resent this statement. The director is a guiding force, but not the author. He or she would have nothing to direct without the real author of the film. And the days of the "auteur" are long over.


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## Studio E (Sep 12, 2019)

Hey guys, long story short, they agreed to leaving the music out of the section I was referring to. Hopefully I'll be able to share the film sometime soon.


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## staypuft (Sep 12, 2019)

robgb said:


> I disagree. When you're hired as composer, you aren't just providing background music, you are a member of the filmmaking team. Sure, they can overrule you, but there's nothing wrong with fighting for what you feel is right for the film.



Agreed. The concept that composers are blind sheep following a mythical unicorn (the director) is wrongly overstated. Good for you Eric.


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## jononotbono (Sep 12, 2019)

robgb said:


> I disagree



Cool


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