# Am I the Only One Bothered By This?



## robgb (Jan 14, 2018)

I've listened to orchestral music all my life alongside many other genres and, despite this, it always bugs the crap out of me that the cello and basses, in normal practice, are usually to the right of the audio spectrum.

Why is it done this way?

I think the pop music world gets it correct in putting the bass in the center where it feels balanced. But in orchestral music, any time I listen to a cello/bass heavy sequence, I feel as if I'm leaning to my right, especially if there isn't much going on otherwise...

When doing midi pieces, I wrestle between what feels good to me and what is traditionally correct. Am I the only one bothered by this?

(I suspect those who grew up listening and writing orchestral music predominantly will think the traditional seating feels more natural...)


----------



## fedacuric (Jan 14, 2018)

I just recently started listening to orchestral music and found it strange that the bass-heavy instruments are not centered. I’ve read that one of the reasons bass is centered is to make vinyl-pressing easier. Something about the needle jumping off if there’s too much bass in the sides. Is this a problem with orchestral music on vinyl?


----------



## Wake (Jan 14, 2018)

Employing orchestral elements in production music, this is a pestering problem. Stereo flipping + transposition helps, centered sub synth layering helps, centered (mono) channel dedicated to harmonics of the deep end helps, but it's always a drain of time and resources.

I own no advanced room-position simulating software, and sometimes wish I did, but checking the prices of the "best" ones out there helps me go back to my workarounds with haste.


----------



## robgb (Jan 14, 2018)

fedacuric said:


> I’ve read that one of the reasons bass is centered is to make vinyl-pressing easier.


Hmm. I've never heard this. I do remember the first stereo Beatles records having the drums and bass on one side and the vocals on the other, so apparently the bass in the middle is a newer idea...


----------



## jamieboo (Jan 14, 2018)

Personally I like the 'unbalance' of the basses being off to the right. Then the music is always moving, reconfiguring, hunting for balance - less likely to stagnate etc! 
I've never been a fan of symmetry, but I suppose if I were a more bass-focused listener/composer then I would feel it should be the centre of attention.


----------



## Living Fossil (Jan 14, 2018)

robgb said:


> I've listened to orchestral music all my life alongside many other genres and, despite this, it always bugs the crap out of me that the cello and basses, in normal practice, are usually to the right of the audio spectrum.
> 
> Why is it done this way?



In the early days of audio recording, catching the bass frequencies was a huge problem. The modern placement of the orchestra is a byproduct of this fact, by concentrating the bass heavy instruments at one side. However, the main reason for the modern placement of the orchestra was the fact that Stokowski (the conductor, who cultivated the modern placement of the orchestra) thought that it's better for the intonation of the 1. and 2. violins, if they sit nearby. 
However, there are some orchestras who use again the old placement (with 1st and 2nd violins opposing), and there are pieces, where the old placement (also called Deutsche Sitzordnung) should be mandatory (Tchaikowski's "Pathétique" for example).


----------



## TGV (Jan 14, 2018)

robgb said:


> Hmm. I've never heard this.


But it's true. The needle can't track large (stereo) excursions: it would jump out of the groove. Bass waves cause large excursions. The solution was to center all bass and roll it off, and then correct it in the amplifier (the RIAA curve).

But not all orchestras have celli and basses on the right. Some have them centered, e.g. here:


----------



## reddognoyz (Jan 14, 2018)

robgb said:


> Hmm. I've never heard this. I do remember the first stereo Beatles records having the drums and bass on one side and the vocals on the other, so apparently the bass in the middle is a newer idea...



Back in the day you couldn't put too much bass on a record or the needle would literally jump out of the groove, same for putting it to one side. The Beatles releases that had dual mono tracks were released that way in error. Really. Those were originally mono recording that were sent to the US as splits, and released that way by mistake.


----------



## Sears Poncho (Jan 14, 2018)

It's not for the listener as much as the performers. It helps the players hear better, it isolates by frequency group. Cellos near basses. Basses away from fiddles etc. It happened over centuries. Think of baroque counterpoint: It's not just keeping the beat, it's intricate lines. It helps the players and the listeners to have these sounds in their own sonic space. In a polka band, the bass acts more like a timekeeper. In "The Messiah" not so much. 

A subwoofer can be placed anywhere, the "boom boom" is felt, not heard. A bass is part subwoofer and part cello, so the players can hear the "boom boom" from anywhere but don't need to hear the rest of it as it creates conflict. Keep that sucker away from us. 

Some conductors mess with it. As a symphony violinist, I can't stand it when they do.  Some "stereo-ize" the fiddles, putting the firsts on the left and seconds on the right. If you want them to be sloppy, do this. If you want them to play together and hear each other, leave them alone.


----------



## pbattersby (Jan 14, 2018)

TGV said:


> But not all orchestras have celli and basses on the right. Some have them centered, e.g. here:




Most surprising to me is the basses standing behind the brass. I wonder if this particular seating arrangement has something to do with the narrow hall in which they are playing


----------



## C.R. Rivera (Jan 14, 2018)

robgb said:


> Hmm. I've never heard this. I do remember the first stereo Beatles records having the drums and bass on one side and the vocals on the other, so apparently the bass in the middle is a newer idea...


One example of this is the tracking on Peter Gabriel's SO album. The CD issue differed in song order from the original vinyl release in 1985. He or his Real World folks reported that it was due to the bass freqs on the vinyl...I don't have the source handy, but I noticed the tracking order when I needle dropped the original before the CD came out.


----------



## Sears Poncho (Jan 14, 2018)

pbattersby said:


> Most surprising to me is the basses standing behind the brass. I wonder if this particular seating arrangement has something to do with the narrow hall in which they are playing


Nobody can be behind the basses. They stand up, so they would block the conductor.


----------



## Rob (Jan 14, 2018)

there are different seating layouts... just the other day I went to theater to listen to Juja Wang perform with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe and the cellos were sitting near the first violins, left-center, then violas and second violins to the right. Basses back, left-centered...


----------



## thereus (Jan 14, 2018)

They all have to somewhere. The cellists won’t usually sit on the trombonists’ laps until they get to the pub afterwards.


----------



## pbattersby (Jan 14, 2018)

Sears Poncho said:


> Nobody can be behind the basses. They stand up, so they would block the conductor.



Ah, yes. Of course. I wasn't thinking. That also raises an interesting point. With samples, if the Basses are going to be moved from the far right to the center, they also need more reverb to move them to the back. As you've pointed out, they wouldn't be middle and near the front.


----------



## thesteelydane (Jan 14, 2018)

As a player I hate sitting in the old classical way with 1sts and 2nds opposite. Makes it very hard to play together.


----------



## gsilbers (Jan 14, 2018)

There are other types of orchestra layouts. with the bass in the middle. I think its called european sitting. if i am not mistaken, its the one that hans zimmer uses (or soemtimes uses)


----------



## Dietz (Jan 14, 2018)

pbattersby said:


> [...] this particular seating arrangement has something to do with the *narrow hall* in which they are playing


... which is commonly referred to as the most distinctive orchestral venue on the planet. 

-> https://www.musikverein.at/en/der-grosse-musikvereinssaal


----------



## Oliver (Jan 14, 2018)

omiroad said:


> Can you please stop it with the clickbait titles, robgb? All your threads have a non-descriptive, attention grabbing kind of title now, and it's more annoying than off-center basses.


and so?


----------



## sazema (Jan 14, 2018)

TGV said:


> But it's true. The needle can't track large (stereo) excursions: it would jump out of the groove. Bass waves cause large excursions. The solution was to center all bass and roll it off, and then correct it in the amplifier (the RIAA curve).
> 
> But not all orchestras have celli and basses on the right. Some have them centered, e.g. here:




Don't know about vinyl ... but we should think and look at positioning before recording exists.
It's all about panning, balance and strength of individual instruments on live performing in some hall.
Now, recording is something different and it has not strict rules that you need to record bass at total right etc...
Also, recording session has been changed during years... Some people follow strict rules, while some genius people broke that rules and introduced something different to our ears - move the barriers.

About Vienna Musikverein (I'm wondering about this every year ), and I believe is a matter of space, just there is no enough space at the stage for classical positioning.
Also it can be something with audition position. For sure, they have audio specialists who decided to place orchestra like this - for sound to reach each individual person in hall equally (if is possible).


----------



## robgb (Jan 14, 2018)

omiroad said:


> Can you please stop it with the clickbait titles, robgb? All your threads have a non-descriptive, attention grabbing kind of titles now, and it's more annoying than off-center basses.


If you don't like my "click bait" titles, why not simply ignore them rather than troll the thread? I mean seriously, if you don't have anything worthwhile to contribute, why even comment? Jesus.


----------



## NoamL (Jan 14, 2018)

thesteelydane said:


> As a player I hate sitting in the old classical way with 1sts and 2nds opposite. Makes it very hard to play together.



As a cellist, same.

I'm skeptical of the technology-based explanations. There are lots of older pieces like the Brandenburg Concertos where it seems clear that Vln1+2 and Cellos+Basses is the musically intended seating.


----------



## robgb (Jan 14, 2018)

Apparently there are many different seating arrangements. The French seatings are interesting.

http://www.jdsmusic.co.uk/Orchestral%20Seating%20-%20JDS%202009.pdf (http://www.jdsmusic.co.uk/Orchestral Seating - JDS 2009.pdf)


----------



## Sears Poncho (Jan 14, 2018)

Dietz said:


> ... which is commonly referred to as the most distinctive orchestral venue on the planet.
> 
> -> https://www.musikverein.at/en/der-grosse-musikvereinssaal


I played there 2x on tours. It's awesomeness, especially its history. On one occasion, there was some band finishing their afternoon show while we were arriving, I could hear them outside. Vienna Phil playing Mahler 3.


----------



## muk (Jan 15, 2018)

In practice there are countless different seatings, many more than the two which are thought to be 'standard'. One famous opera conductor insists to have all the winds seated to the left, and all the strings to the right for certain repertoire. Our orchestra usually has the celli and violas swapped from the 'usual' layout for concerts. I. e. the celli are center right, and the violas front right. The double basses are in their usual position. We do that for balancing reasons, with the violas often being overpowered by the bigger celli when seated behind them. In day to day playing setups are constantly changed, based on the conductors whishes, and - most importantly - in order to keep the players hearing save. If the bassoons are seated directly in front of the trumpets and trombones you bloody won't seat them there again the next evening. So there are many practical reasons that play into the seating layout.

The orchestral seating layouts were developed in and for concert situations. An orchestra playing in a concert hall. How can they be seated to a) have the orchestra play together the best (intonation is a very important factor here), and b) have it sound as good as possible in the specific hall. In a live situation I have never been bothered by the celli and basses being to the right. In fact, in a good concert hall and if the orchestra is going for a Mischklang rather than a Spaltklang, with eyes closed you probably won't even be able to make out the seating layout with certainty. If you are bothered by it, it most probably has to do with a recording being different than a live situation, and/or you being more familiar with centered bass of modern music recordings.


----------



## Darren Durann (Jan 15, 2018)

robgb said:


> I've listened to orchestral music all my life alongside many other genres and, despite this, it always bugs the crap out of me that the cello and basses, in normal practice, are usually to the right of the audio spectrum.
> 
> Why is it done this way?
> 
> ...



It is strange, but I just center the double basses anyway (I first started out with Rock , so doing that for my orchestral ensembles just sounded good to me by that time). Celli I put a small bit to the left.


----------



## Darren Durann (Jan 15, 2018)

Sears Poncho said:


> Vienna Phil playing Mahler 3.



That's my favorite Mahler symphony...that and the 9th. Awesome.


----------



## paoling (Jan 15, 2018)

Sonically speaking the seating position doesn't affect the very low range which tends to be omnidirectional. Sure you listen the notes and the harmonics coming from the right, but the lower frequencies are impossible to determine where they are coming from. I like this traditional setting, which is often used by composers to make a kind of meaningful dialogue between sections.


----------



## Perry (Jan 16, 2018)

robgb said:


> I've listened to orchestral music all my life alongside many other genres and, despite this, it always bugs the crap out of me that the cello and basses, in normal practice, are usually to the right of the audio spectrum.
> 
> Why is it done this way?
> 
> ...



Yes I don't like that either. I have a Picture on my wall of the seating plans of an orchestra is, and I've been mixing mine that way Basses RT Cellos closer to center etc.


----------



## shapednoise (Jan 16, 2018)

robgb said:


> Hmm. I've never heard this. I do remember the first stereo Beatles records having the drums and bass on one side and the vocals on the other, so apparently the bass in the middle is a newer idea...




I always thought that was more about Tech limitations.?


----------



## JJP (Jan 16, 2018)

I wrote a rather long response to this question several years ago and included a few crude diagrams. You can find it here:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/orchestral-layouts.21840/#post-3572927


----------



## GdT (Jan 17, 2018)

Living Fossil said:


> Stokowski (the conductor, who cultivated the modern placement of the orchestra) thought that it's better for the intonation of the 1. and 2. violins, if they sit nearby.
> However, there are some orchestras who use again the old placement (with 1st and 2nd violins opposing), and there are pieces, where the old placement (also called Deutsche Sitzordnung) should be mandatory (Tchaikowski's "Pathétique" for example).


Ah but if the second Violins are on the right the sound boards of their Violins, which transmit the sound, are facing towards the back of the hall. So their sound does not project forwards to the audience but bounces off the back walls.

I was seated 6 rows back dead center from the conductor in a concert with Violins-II on the right (due to stage being wide and not deep), and I thought I could not hear them clearly. I actually got to talk to one of them after the concert and he concurred with my point.

So maybe Stokowski did something special - maybe he had an extra numbers of second Violins, or got them to play a bit louder (orchestral balancing) or maybe he had sound reflectors at back.


----------



## Jos Wylin (Jan 17, 2018)

I think there's a distinction between real live recordings and a mock-up. In a mock-up, you can practically achieve every seating and balance whereas in a real recording acoustics determine partly the balance laws (not to mention the practical objections as visibility for the conductor). But as said here, there has been many group placements through history (in the early baroque musicians even tended to sit in horizontal rows behind the harpsichord/conductor).
I prefer the opposite seatings for 1st and 2d violins mainly for chamber music, with violas and cellos in between. Basses slightly off center in the back (that is in most cases behind the cellos). In larger scores, that would be more difficult from the practical point of view, but the videos show that it is possible. And they show clearly that the distance between 1st and 2d violins is rather minimal (from the precision point of view absolutely desirable). However, the visual contact is better in opposite seating...
I guess it's more a matter of personal preferences, certainly for sampled music.

Jos


----------



## JJP (Jan 17, 2018)

Jos Wylin said:


> I prefer the opposite seatings for 1st and 2d violins mainly for chamber music, with violas and cellos in between. Basses slightly off center in the back (that is in most cases behind the cellos). In larger scores, that would be more difficult from the practical point of view, but the videos show that it is possible...



Jos' post reminded me that I also posted a followup discussing these issues as well.

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/orchestral-layouts.21840/#post-3572961


----------



## Nuno (Jan 17, 2018)

Very interesting discussion here!

So, maybe you can help me. Didn't read the whole thread but I dare to ask anyway..
.

I recentely bought Audio Imperia Jaeger and noticed that the orchestra was recordered in centered seating position. Until now i was working with libraries that have all sections naturally placed in their positions so i never bothered with panning. But with Jaeger I am not sure if i should pan violins, for instance, to get a wider sound. Why did they decided to record in this way? Is it because it is aimed at trailer tracks (never explored this genre myself so I am noob here) and in the center it can deliver more power? Or did they recorded in this way to give us more creative choices? What do you think


----------



## robgb (Jan 17, 2018)

Nuno said:


> I recentely bought Audio Imperia Jaeger and noticed that the orchestra was recordered in centered seating position. Until now i was working with libraries that have all sections naturally placed in their positions so i never bothered with panning. But with Jaeger I am not sure if i should pan violins, for instance, to get a wider sound. Why did they decided to record in this way? Is it because it is aimed at trailer tracks (never explored this genre myself so I am noob here) and in the center it can deliver more power? Or did they recorded in this way to give us more creative choices? What do you think



I suspect they recorded it that way because it gives you greater control and flexibility over the sections. I personally dislike pre-panned instruments.


----------



## Jeremy Gillam (Jan 17, 2018)

I once spent some time trying to study this video of Howard Shore recording for The Hobbit to try to figure out his seating pattern so I could pan my samples similarly:



Whether for pop music or orchestral I like to create a sort of inverted triangle of frequency, with the lows in the center and mono and the frequencies spreading wider as the pitch rises, so I enjoy enjoy the seating arrangements with violins 1 & 2 sitting opposite and celli and basses more towards the middle, which Shore seems to favor. I'm in the midst of reading "The Music of the Lord of the Rings Films" by Doug Adams from which the following excerpt was taken:

"'Orchestration is, in essence, about range,' explains Shore. 'People think it's color, but it actually is range.' This range-based orchestration divided the orchestral into degrees of low, middle, and high sounds regardless of instrument type. Each layer of range could include any combination of instruments, resulting in an interconnected sense of ensemble unity."​I wonder if the seating arrangement Shore chose is connected with his approach to orchestration. It seems to me part of the fun of making music that's intended to be recorded rather than performed is in experimenting with different seating arrangements and therefore instrument placement in the mix, and in seeing how seating and panning might inform compositional choices.

Oh and those early stereo Beatles records with the drums and bass panned hard left and right — no thanks. Give me the mono versions any day.


----------



## JJP (Jan 17, 2018)

jrgillam said:


> I wonder if the seating arrangement Shore chose is connected with his approach to orchestration.



Oh my, so many stories I could share about Howard and orchestration.

For LOTR (didn't do the Hobbit films) the orchestra layout I recall us using was violins divided left and right, with violi conductor's right and celli and basses left. That's the reverse of many traditional setups for low strings. Brass were on the right side, and the 5 horns were fairly central across the back or perhaps a bit left to avoid the perc. (Horns hate to have perc right behind them. It blocks their reflections and perc vibrations can travel up the bells and affect intonation. Though, they had a few pints in them most afternoons so they might not have noticed after lunch. )

The layout wasn't done for orchestration reasons as much as getting a good sound in the hall. We recorded at Watford, Abbey, Phoenix (CTS Lansdowne), and Air on ROTK alone. Those halls each have different sonic behaviors, so some things were done a bit differently make the orchestra sound the same in each location. It was a real challenge for the engineers.

That became the LOTR sound, so things were done similarly on The Hobbit.


----------



## Ivan Duch (Feb 6, 2022)

JJP said:


> Oh my, so many stories I could share about Howard and orchestration.



So enlightening, thanks for sharing.

I always wondered about what was recorded in each location and why so many. 

Some sources say only choirs were recorded in Air?


----------



## KEM (Feb 6, 2022)

Yes it does and I believe some film composers started putting the basses in the middle for this very reason, it makes more sense that way


----------



## robgb (Feb 7, 2022)

KEM said:


> Yes it does and I believe some film composers started putting the basses in the middle for this very reason, it makes more sense that way


Thanks for revisiting this old thread. There are several comments I missed, including the one of Howard Shore with his low strings in the middle. I think it was Anne-Kathryn Dern who said that with film scores we're creating RECORDED music not LIVE music, so the rules are different. I noticed that Howard had the first violinist in a booth. Nice.

I think if I were to record an orchestra (as if), I would probably record the different sections separately, placed optimally on the sound stage, and mix it all together later.


----------



## CT (Feb 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> including the one of Howard Shore with his low strings in the middle


Except this wasn't the case, nor is it what any comment said. The celli and basses were off to the left, which is somewhat less common than them being on the right, but not unheard of. They were not centered. The celli were a bit more to the middle than the most common seating places them, but flip the low strings as Shore had them to the right, and that's still probably the second most common seating you'll see in an orchestra for those two sections.



robgb said:


> I noticed that Howard had the first violinist in a booth. Nice.


Not a first violinist, but a featured soloist, who are pretty typically put in a booth. Doesn't really have any bearing on the question of recording larger sections separately.


----------



## robgb (Feb 7, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> Except this wasn't the case, nor is it what any comment said. The celli and basses were off to the left, which is somewhat less common than them being on the right, but not unheard of. They were not centered. The celli were a bit more to the middle than the most common seating places them, but flip the low strings as Shore had them to the right, and that's still probably the second most common seating you'll see in an orchestra for those two sections.
> 
> 
> Not a first violinist, but a featured soloist, who are pretty typically put in a booth. Doesn't really have any bearing on the question of recording larger sections separately.


Hmm. From the video it looked to me like they're right in front of him, but okay. You win.


----------



## CT (Feb 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> Hmm. From the video it looked to me like they're right in front of him, but okay. You win.


"Low strings in the middle" would to me imply that the celli and basses were... in the middle, not that the basses were on the left and part of the celli section extended to the middle-left in front of the conductor. Just seemed to me like you were misconstruing some things to make your own points.

Here's a view of the layout he uses. Basses off-screen to the left.


----------



## robgb (Feb 7, 2022)

Michaelt said:


> "Low strings in the middle" would to me imply that the celli and basses were... in the middle, not that the basses were on the left and part of the celli section extended to the middle-left in front of the conductor. Just seemed to me like you were misconstruing some things to make your own points.


Nope. Just relating what I saw. If I saw it wrong, so be it. My point is still valid. But Howard is only one example. Herrmann used to play around with placement and volume of specific instruments in the mixing stage (if not during recording) and I'm pretty sure Zimmer plays around a lot as well. The point that RECORDING is different from LIVE still holds, and that's the only point I was making.


----------



## MauroPantin (Feb 7, 2022)

Doug Adams has a seating plan in his book about the music of LOTR.

- 1st and second violins are opposed, hard left and right of the conductor as previously stated.

- Basses are right behind the 1st violins, about 45 degrees off-center.

- Celli and Violas are right in front of the conductor to the left and right, respectively, about 15 degrees or so removed from the centerline.

Can't post a pic for copyright reasons, but that's the gist of it.

On the topic I hand, I use Nugen's Monofilter. I don't care if it's unrealistic to nudge them a little, bass frequencies have to have at least SOME presence in the middle of the stereo field IMO, and that's how I mix. It's a creative decision like everything else.

Also, with enough reverb it shouldn't sound too out of balance. Bass frequencies are harder to locate in a large room.


----------



## CT (Feb 7, 2022)

robgb said:


> Nope. Just relating what I saw. If I saw it wrong, so be it. My point is still valid. But Howard is only one example. Herrmann used to play around with placement and volume of specific instruments in the mixing stage (if not during recording) and I'm pretty sure Zimmer plays around a lot as well. The point that RECORDING is different from LIVE still holds, and that's the only point I was making.


Sure, there's any number of interesting possibilities when it comes to ensemble layout, whether for recording or live performance. They all have their own character, and potential performance issues. Just wanted to make sure the record was clear in this specific instance, for anyone reading this thread in the future.


----------



## JJP (Feb 7, 2022)

Ivan Duch said:


> Some sources say only choirs were recorded in Air?


There were some vocal recordings at Air, but I recall we did most of the the choir recordings at Abbey.


----------



## JJP (Feb 7, 2022)

Ivan Duch said:


> I always wondered about what was recorded in each location and why so many.


I forgot to answer this. Basically, it was whatever we could get. We were recording for months so we had to get dates wherever we could. We did most of the time at Abbey and Watford.

I see so many people hyper-analyzing why certain soundtracks are recorded in certain studios. Usually the answer is, "That's what was available and could meet our needs and schedule."


----------



## Rowy van Hest (Feb 8, 2022)

Most conductors are right-handed. The right hand is strong, the left hand is weak, so all strong sounds are at the right and feeble sounds are at the left.

I should stop drinking...


----------



## SDCP (Feb 9, 2022)

"Am I the Only One Bothered By This?"​
Yes


----------



## Crowe (Feb 9, 2022)

SDCP said:


> "Am I the Only One Bothered By This?"​
> Yes


I came here to say this. Now I don't have to.


----------



## Babe (Feb 13, 2022)

I played in a concert band where the individual clarinet sections were split up. Half the 1st on the left, the others on the right. Same for the 2nd and 3rds. Tough to play together as a section. The conductor was a very experienced musician. Played trumpet in the world's best orchestras.


----------



## JTB (Feb 13, 2022)

MIR 3D's just around the corner and will enable the user to load different seating positions for the entire orchestra with a few clicks. How cool will that be?.


----------



## Ivan Duch (Feb 18, 2022)

JJP said:


> I forgot to answer this. Basically, it was whatever we could get. We were recording for months so we had to get dates wherever we could. We did most of the time at Abbey and Watford.
> 
> I see so many people hyper-analyzing why certain soundtracks are recorded in certain studios. Usually the answer is, "That's what was available and could meet our needs and schedule."


Thanks a lot for the answer, very enlightening to the realities of that sort of recording. Also, it must have been amazing to be part of the production of those movies and soundtrack. 

I'd listen to stories of the behind-the-scenes of that soundtrack all day long.


----------

