# Liquidsonics announces "7th Heaven" (based on Bricasti M7)



## Garlu (Apr 17, 2017)

Just seen this:







https://www.liquidsonics.com/software/seventh-heaven-professional/#1487631437535-83647eee-05be

Would be curious to listen on how it blends with the sources...

It looks like they have improved also the capturing process (compared to Reverberate 2 or Slate's VerbSuite). I own both but I might have to try it (although I have been liking Exponential Audio's R4 lately).

Shame the Video demos are using drums only (and the audio demos have a terrible classical recording...) 

Thoughts?


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## Musicam (Apr 17, 2017)

Cool!


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## Saxer (Apr 17, 2017)

It's a pity that I don't own a hardware Bricasti to compare...


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## jamwerks (Apr 17, 2017)

Cool ! Using Reverberate 2 and love the sound.


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## colony nofi (Apr 17, 2017)

Very curious about this.

Now if only they developed a surround version.........


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## vewilya (Apr 18, 2017)

Downloading the demo now...


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## SoNowWhat? (Apr 18, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Cool ! Using Reverberate 2 and love the sound.


Snap! Me too.
I purchased it on sale a few months ago and have only recently gotten it up and running. I like it...a lot! To my ears at least it is wonderfully transparent and I haven't even started to begin tweaking settings to the extent that are available.
As I type I'm downloading the M7 IR's for Reverberate2 (from Liquidsonic) so will see how they go.


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## jamwerks (Apr 18, 2017)

Having tried the static Bricasti IR's a few years ago, I was shocked at just how good Reverberate 2 was. Haven't tested side by side, but did own an M7 for a while, and Reverberate did seem to get you 80% there, which is largely enough, especially when using samples that already have proper baked-in er's.

The only thing missing for me was the control over the different parameters, which seems to be resolved with Seventh Heaven!


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## vewilya (Apr 18, 2017)

Garlu said:


> Just seen this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hard to beat the EA verbs... At least for my taste. Though it sounds quite subtle I have to say. But it just crashed my logic session a moment ago.


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## WindcryMusic (Apr 18, 2017)

Since Reverberate 2 doesn't require iLok I was happy to purchase it at the time. How disappointing it is to see that they've added an iLok requirement for Seventh Heaven ... otherwise I'd almost certainly have been getting this.

Edit: I emailed Liquidsonics about this, and they responded almost immediately, to their credit. I was very sorry to hear from them how widely Reverberate 2 was pirated (pirates SUCK), but I nonetheless had to tell them that, unfortunately, I can only consider continuing to purchase software from them if they eventually make available a non-iLok, non-PACE alternative for copy protection.


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## Karsten Vogt (Apr 18, 2017)

Same here. iLok = no go.


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## dogdad (Apr 18, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> Since Reverberate 2 doesn't require iLok I was happy to purchase it at the time. How disappointing it is to see that they've added an iLok requirement for Seventh Heaven ... otherwise I'd almost certainly have been getting this.



I'm always surprised to see developers still supporting this. They are losing a chunk of sales due to this I'd imagine. When a plugin uses iLok I have to factor in that cost as well as have something take up a USB port. I too will avoid any plugin that requires an iLok dongle. 

Now, on the other hand I don't mind the software version of iLok. Too bad they don't support that.

The other question I have is, what is the difference between this and using the M7 IRs and Reverberate 2?


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## WindcryMusic (Apr 18, 2017)

dogdad said:


> Now, on the other hand I don't mind the software version of iLok. Too bad they don't support that.



In their email, they said that the software version isn't as secure, which is why they aren't using it.

Interestingly, they (Matt) also said that the PACE software is quite different now than it was back when I had problems. I'll admit that I have not kept up on the technology, since my level of respect for PACE as a company is less than zero, but I do now think I should at least try to do some research on any changes to their software, in terms of its invasiveness on users' systems.


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## jamwerks (Apr 18, 2017)

Can't blame them for protecting themselves using Ilok. Soooo many people use cracked sw. Even "professionals" who make good money. It's in our own interest that developers of all kinds can innovate and get paid for their innovations. And whatever they have to do to protect themselves, we should (imo) support that...


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## wst3 (Apr 18, 2017)

There are just too many tools that I depend on for me to avoid iLok or eLicenser... and it has been so long since I've experienced a problem with either! The last big problem at iLok was publicly announced by iLok, and resolved pretty quickly. The company seems to have figured out they need their customers to have customers<G>!


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## Ashermusic (Apr 18, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Can't blame them for protecting themselves using Ilok. Soooo many people use cracked sw. Even "professionals" who make good money. It's in our own interest that developers of all kinds can innovate and get paid for their innovations. And whatever they have to do to protect themselves, we should (imo) support that...




Well stated. When Logic used the XS key, I used them without problems. I have used both iLoks and e-Liscensers for years. Zero problems, but maybe I have just been lucky.


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## LiquidSonics (Apr 18, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> In their email, they said that the software version isn't as secure, which is why they aren't using it.
> 
> Interestingly, they (Matt) also said that the PACE software is quite different now than it was back when I had problems. I'll admit that I have not kept up on the technology, since my level of respect for PACE as a company is less than zero, but I do now think I should at least try to do some research on any changes to their software, in terms of its invasiveness on users' systems.



I think the iLok issues of the past were much more serious than the ones we have had recently. Their newer Eden content protection is a lot less invasive on the system than Interlok was too. They had a hicup when launching a major change to the license manager a while ago but resolved it, and occasionally a server goes down for a small amount of time, but that's not really too uncommon in the IT industry.

With the coming tide of subscription software that needs the ability to firmly lock in and out lots of products on a month by month basis, I can see iLok / soft iLok gaining traction quite quickly if they can earn back some of the reputation that I think is deserved.



dogdad said:


> The other question I have is, what is the difference between this and using the M7 IRs and Reverberate 2?


The real difference, aside from some improvements in sampling and playback resulting from customising 3 dedicated Fusion-IR convolvers to low/early/late reverbs (not practical in a general purpose convolution), is that it feels like using an M7 because of the attention paid to the controls and huge amount of multi-sampling so you can pick whatever decay time you want (try doing that on a regular convolution). Some of the controls that I think really make the M7 what it is are the roll-off filters, with convolution you're usually stuck with the filtering you get at sample time, but not here. Plus the behaviour of the pre-delay, decay time and delay are really representative of the unit. I could go on but it all adds up to a reverb that behaves like it's algorithmic, and with the sound being so close to the M7, that justifies it being its own product.


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## playz123 (Apr 18, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Well stated. When Logic used the XS key, I used them without problems. I have used both iLoks and e-Liscensers for years. Zero problems, but maybe I have just been lucky.


Same here...34 licenses on iLok...zero problems over the years. Nor do I consider an iLok invasive. Different strokes for different folks I guess!
Moving on...thanks for sharing this information, Vanessa. Interested in hearing more comments from people who have taken the time to test (or are testing) Seventh Heaven.


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## vewilya (Apr 18, 2017)

Well after a bit of playing around with the Liquidsonics Seventh Heaven Pro and its smaller brother today I must say that I truly love this reverb. I never had a Bricasti M7 so I can not offer any comparisons but the 2 plugins both sound amazing. Very transparent and subtle in the mix. I am not at all an expert on Fusion IR's and the likes but compared to convolution plugins which can get messy at times this is very smooth and classy sounding and is quite tweakable. If you don't like too many knobs and options the standard version for £49.00 is just the thing. Worth checking out I think!


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## WindcryMusic (Apr 18, 2017)

LiquidSonics said:


> I think the iLok issues of the past were much more serious than the ones we have had recently. Their newer Eden content protection is a lot less invasive on the system than Interlok was too. They had a hicup when launching a major change to the license manager a while ago but resolved it, and occasionally a server goes down for a small amount of time, but that's not really too uncommon in the IT industry.
> 
> With the coming tide of subscription software that needs the ability to firmly lock in and out lots of products on a month by month basis, I can see iLok / soft iLok gaining traction quite quickly if they can earn back some of the reputation that I think is deserved.



I've been researching this today after our emails, and I'm sorry to say that I've still seen too many bad things about PACE and iLok to want to saddle my studio computer with it ... things like a system process needing to be constantly running for iLok to work (and hence drawing on system resources that I want going toward my music production), and worse, $45 cheaply-built iLok keys regularly failing after only a few months. Oh, and PACE's "support" staff claiming to not recognize simple phrases like "my iLok is broken".

Sorry ... I'd like to have had my mind changed about it so that I could look at Seventh Heaven, but I'll still be avoiding iLok-crippled software for the foreseeable future. Best of luck to you.


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## lp59burst (Apr 18, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> <snip...>
> 
> Sorry ... I'd like to have had my mind changed about it so that I could look at Seventh Heaven, but I'll still be avoiding iLok-crippled software for the foreseeable future. Best of luck to you.




In my opinion Matt makes great products and it seems to me he's just trying to protect his investment and livelihood...

Describing it as "crippled" seems a bit... well... extreme to me... but, umm...


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## elpedro (Apr 18, 2017)

I don't like dongles, but i gotta say i have used iloks for years now, with no problems, bought an ilok 3 for 29 bucks on ebay brand new at auction last month.most ilok stuff now allows more than 1 activation, so i have all i need duplicated on another ilok.I have had zero problems, and understand how crippling piracy can be for some, especially small downloads like reverb software.I guess in a world that does not need iloks, we also wouldn't need cruise missiles....


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## Ben H (Apr 18, 2017)

Developers don't really have much of a choice these days.
Lose sales to piracy, or lose sales to customers boycotting their products over their copy protection choice.

They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.


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## playz123 (Apr 18, 2017)

Since this is a commercial thread...and also out of respect to the developer..may I suggest that we return to a discussion about the product, and discuss the pros and cons of iLoks in another thread perhaps? It's worth noting though that that topic has already been discussed ad infinitum previously, and like the Mac vs. PC threads it never led to a definitive conclusion.


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## clisma (Apr 18, 2017)

Yes, sensible. Have any users of Reverberate 2 tried this yet, and could they give their opinion on the perceived differences in sound between the two sets of IRs, if any? That would be highly appreciated.


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Apr 19, 2017)

Trying out the demo at the moment. My first impression - while it's not the most transparent reverb ever, it more than makes up for that by having tons and tons of character. Some of the warmest and most colourful sounds I've ever heard form a digital reverb.. Going to do some comparisons between this and other reverbs I have..


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## MarcelM (Apr 19, 2017)

id also like to know the difference between this and reverberate 2. is it really that much better?


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## LamaRose (Apr 19, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Can't blame them for protecting themselves using Ilok. Soooo many people use cracked sw. Even "professionals" who make good money. It's in our own interest that developers of all kinds can innovate and get paid for their innovations. And whatever they have to do to protect themselves, we should (imo) support that...



iLok offers no protection. Most of this sh!t-storm that is cracked software was directly related to iLok and EastWest back around 2005. One pissed dude got the ball rolling. A heavyweight composer even admitted to using a cracked version because it didn't crash! Don't recall his name.


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## jamwerks (Apr 19, 2017)

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> Trying out the demo at the moment. My first impression - while it's not the most transparent reverb ever, it more than makes up for that by having tons and tons of character. Some of the warmest and most colourful sounds I've ever heard form a digital reverb.. Going to do some comparisons between this and other reverbs I have..


Maybe between 7th Heaven and Relab VSR S24?


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## Ian Dorsch (Apr 19, 2017)

iLok is fine. Been using an iLok 2 pretty much since it came out with very few issues. As far as I know, the second generation iLok is still pretty darn secure. 

7th Heaven looks cool.


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## ironbut (Apr 19, 2017)

Doing the demo of R4 at the moment (and loving it). 
I guess I'll download 7th and give it a try. 
I've had Reverberate for years and it's my main IR verb but if 7th Heaven is as slick as it looks, I may have to get both (R4 and 7th).

I've had and iLok and elicenser for 5 or 6 years and never had an issue with either. 
I was dead set against dongles before that but I admit that my fears never materialized.
I just can't see why some software company like Google or Microsoft couldn't create a central site where every app and plugin could be downloaded and secured. 
I have so many download managers I wouldn't guess how many there are in my system folder.
And I'm guessing that those management apps aren't free. 
All those complexities sure do make "clean installs" a pain in the ass!


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## Karsten Vogt (Apr 19, 2017)

Software security is an illusion. Everything can be cracked. It just depends on the ability of the cracker. Just look at Denuvo: "Denuvo is the global #1 Application Protection and Anti-Piracy Technology Platform with 350+ million software licenses issued and revalidated." Many, many people and developers said, their system was absolutely safe. A couple of months later it was cracked. 

Sometimes I wish the same would happen to PACE and eLicenser and developers would act for their customers and not against them. Look at Klanghelm and Hornet Audio. They have no copy protection at all and still manage to keep up their business. Or Fabfilter/u-he et al: simple serial number. Some of the best developers around and thriving.

These guys have successfully done something: they made their company likeable and their products great (dammit I start sounding like Trump). They made people want to support their work. U-he's Urs is a hell of a guy and it would hurt me to harm everything he does. The same goes for a lot of other devs: Spitfire Audio (although I dislike their Paypal issue :D), Alex (Cinematic Studio Series), Sean (ValhallaDSP), Aaron from Musical Sampling, just to name a few. Make people value your work and you will succeed, just don't "Lok" them out.

OnTopic: I'd totally get my hands on 7th Heaven.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Apr 19, 2017)

Karsten Vogt said:


> These guys have successfully done something: they made their company likeable and their products great (dammit I start sounding like Trump). They made people want to support their work.[...] Make people value your work and you will succeed, just don't "Lok" them out.



To be honest: I think they just simply get pirated and choose to suck it up.
I believe that assholes will crack and pirate software no matter how you "treat" them. There's no winning them over by being an extra cool guy.

Having that said, I absolutely agree that many "protection" solutions actually mainly piss off and criminalize honest users while the pirates continue to not give a shit.


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## lpuser (Apr 19, 2017)

Ian Dorsch said:


> iLok is fine. Been using an iLok 2 pretty much since it came out with very few issues.



THAT exactly is the point. Every manufacturer is somehow protecting their plugins, either by serial numbers or by license control software.

iLok has proven here on many occasions that it is the only (!) solution which absolutely survives systems updates, hard disk exchanges etc. All iLok protected plugins are usable from the 1st second onwards with my new, updated computer - while all serial number protected plugins have been a PITA searching license numbers, entering them one by one, activating stuff again and - in rare cases - even running into issues where deactivation whould have to take place prior to installing a new OS so that the new serials simply won´t work.


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## SoNowWhat? (Apr 19, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> Since Reverberate 2 doesn't require iLok I was happy to purchase it at the time. How disappointing it is to see that they've added an iLok requirement for Seventh Heaven ... otherwise I'd almost certainly have been getting this.
> 
> Edit: I emailed Liquidsonics about this, and they responded almost immediately, to their credit. I was very sorry to hear from them how widely Reverberate 2 was pirated (pirates SUCK), but I nonetheless had to tell them that, unfortunately, I can only consider continuing to purchase software from them if they eventually make available a non-iLok, non-PACE alternative for copy protection.


The iLok put me off too I'm afraid. But that is so very disappointing to hear about the pirating. Reverberate 2 was one of the most affordable (unbelievable really considering what you get) convo reverbs around. I picked it up on sale and it was ridiculously cheap. I don't understand the need to pirate when devs offer excellent products at very fair prices. On this occasion I feel their pain and understand why they have done it this way. Sad for the rest of us.

Edit - just seen @playz123 post and you are quite correct. This should be about 7th Heaven.


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## SoNowWhat? (Apr 19, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Can't blame them for protecting themselves using Ilok. Soooo many people use cracked sw. Even "professionals" who make good money. It's in our own interest that developers of all kinds can innovate and get paid for their innovations. And whatever they have to do to protect themselves, we should (imo) support that...


Couldn't agree more. Don't blame them one bit for taking steps to protect their IP.


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## sostenuto (Apr 19, 2017)

playz123 said:


> Since this is a commercial thread...and also out of respect to the developer..may I suggest that we return to a discussion about the product, and discuss the pros and cons of iLoks in another thread perhaps? It's worth noting though that that topic has already been discussed ad infinitum previously, and like the Mac vs. PC threads it never led to a definitive conclusion.



Lots with opinions and past bitches! Other Forums too. So much for dogs with bones ........
Made 'early' mistake _ COMMERCIAL Announcements _ (violating decorum) and got shite on quickly! Guess same source has no concern here ....

Thanks so much for at least standing up and trying !!


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 19, 2017)

Let me say up front, I have used iLok and eLicenser with no issues. But this paranoia about people stealing your software and almost putting you out of business I do not buy. I write software. What I have found is that about 1% steal. Because people cannot stand that 1% stealing, they punish the other 99% with "You must have iLOK 2, You must have iLOK3, you cannot use computer authentication because the pirates may go from 1% to 1.1%. They seem to say "We hate pirates so much, we are going to punish our paying customers for their evil deeds." In the 1960s, there was this store near my grandma's house, Walton's, who sold candy. Some kids stole candy from him. I did not. Most kids did not. I would say less than one percent of children stole candy from Mr Walton. Did he ban all children? Did he require that all children have a dongle before they entered his store because he distrusted all children because of the evil 1%. No. He wrote the 1% off and catered to the 99% who made him a tidy profit. I have iLok 3 now. I don't care how good this software is. I won't buy it because this policy of "we don't trust computer authentication" is so paranoid and ridiculous. I don't use computer authentication for iLok, only the dongle, but the fact that they are denying it makes me go to principle (a little kid once said "Ma, it's not the school. It's the principal of the thing"). They won't see one dime of my money, even if it means my tracks are worse than the norm. Paranoid narcissists is what I am thinking about the LS policy. Of course all the other narcissists will disagree, so y'all all jump in and disagree. The water is fine. After all, it is all about you so my opinion does not count.


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## SoNowWhat? (Apr 19, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> Let me say up front, I have used iLok and eLicenser with no issues. But this paranoia about people stealing your software and almost putting you out of business I do not buy. I write software. What I have found is that about 1% steal. Because people cannot stand that 1% stealing, they punish the other 99% with "You must have iLOK 2, You must have iLOK3, you cannot use computer authentication because the pirates may go from 1% to 1.1%. They seem to say "We hate pirates so much, we are going to punish our paying customers for their evil deeds." In the 1960s, there was this store near my grandma's house, Walton's, who sold candy. Some kids stole candy from him. I did not. Most kids did not. I would say less than one percent of children stole candy from Mr Walton. Did he ban all children? Did he require that all children have a dongle before they entered his store because he distrusted all children because of the evil 1%. No. He wrote the 1% off and catered to the 99% who made him a tidy profit. I have iLok 3 now. I don't care how good this software is. I won't buy it because this policy of "we don't trust computer authentication" is so paranoid and ridiculous. I don't use computer authentication for iLok, only the dongle, but the fact that they are denying it makes me go to principle (a little kid once said "Ma, it's not the school. It's the principal of the thing"). They won't see one dime of my money, even if it means my tracks are worse than the norm. Paranoid narcissists is what I am thinking about the LS policy. Of course all the other narcissists will disagree, so y'all all jump in and disagree. The water is fine. After all, it is all about you so my opinion does not count.


Some good points there but maybe tone down the rhetoric(?). Nobody has gone over the top in the thread yet IMHO. This thread should be about 7th heaven. Any discussions about iLok and piracy probably belong in their own thread in another section. As I said, you have some good points and would be worth airing them elsewhere.

Edit - I just bumped an old iLok thread in SampleTalk to perhaps continue the disucssion (or not).


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## lp59burst (Apr 19, 2017)

anthraxsnax said:


> Any reason for me to pick it up? I have reverberate 2, and numerical''s hollywood ir's


Same here... and I'd like to know too...


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## Patrick de Caumette (Apr 19, 2017)

Every time a product is protected by ILok, we get the same tired argument.
I am more interested with feedback about the product, rather than the same old bitching.

Developers need to protect their investment, whether it is efficient or not.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 19, 2017)

OK @SoNowWhat, but my discussion was not about iLok. It was about Liquid Sonics not allowing computer authorization because of the 1% of pirates who stole their software and iLok computer authorization not being secure enough because there are soooooo many evil pirates out there. There are more pirates than honest people according their policy and they are the most paranoid kid on the block so they take my hit.. After building new computer, I love iLok and eLicenser because it eased my non-pirate woes. I disagree. It belongs here because this is not an iLok issue or complaint against them. It is a Liquid Sonics paranoia issue and a complaint against against them. To "down the rhetoric" is a nice way of saying "shut up." OK, I'll shut up. Did you ever write software and sell it and worry about people stealing it? I did, so I get a say. Do you have a say? If so, I'd love to hear your story. What is the software scene down under? Love to hear how it is different from America and Europe and Middle East and Far East.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 19, 2017)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Every time a product is protected by ILok, we get the same tired argument.
> I am more interested with feedback about the product, rather than the same old bitching.
> 
> Developers need to protect their investment, whether it is efficient or not.



iLok 3 is solid. No problems with it so far. They at least offer protection from failure for a few dollars per year. With eLicenser and VSL, you are screwed if it fails, or so it seems. Don't know why that is. Is this what you wanted to hear?

You are right. I brought up what I did not know was an old point. Oops. Didn't know it was old and stale to the legacy members. Only been a member since 2012 and I don't read every post. Forgive me for my repetition and boredom to you.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 19, 2017)

anthraxsnax said:


> is having an ilok really that uncommon these days? I hate it because it makes transferring licenses more difficult(and thus companies are less likely to allow it) but on the flip side - if the developer sleeps better at night with the safety blanket, then they'll write better code when they wake up. Piracy is a real issue, period - and if that's a problem, then don't use software.
> 
> if it's not profitable to make software - people stop doing it...




Yes, I agree. But is it true that most people are evil and will steal software if given the chance? That is what the people who use extravagant protection, like iLok think. They think that if they do not protect their software, most people will steal it. For me, I do not need iLok or any protection. I have paid to use this software every time and will continue to do so. But I also hate that I have to jump through these hoops because the developers cannot stand even one person stealing their software.

I will remind anyone who thinks that this should not be in a commercial announcement post that it was not started by Liquid Sonics but by a member who likes them, @Garlu But Liquid Sonics did reply defending their copy protection decision, so it belongs here. I'll just say to them "You have the right to protect yourself. Lock it down so not even one evil person can steal your software. I am for you protecting yourself from them, but because by keeping them out, you also punish me, a potential buyer, you shan't see any of my money." That is my right, just as it is their right to make sure not even one person steals their software. I won't steal it. I won't even be using it.


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## kgdrum (Apr 20, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> Yes, I agree. But is it true that most people are evil and will steal software if given the chance? That is what the people who use extravagant protection, like iLok think. They think that if they do not protect their software, most people will steal it. For me, I do not need iLok or any protection. I have paid to use this software every time and will continue to do so. But I also hate that I have to jump through these hoops because the developers cannot stand even one person stealing their software.
> 
> I will remind anyone who thinks that this should not be in a commercial announcement post that it was not started by Liquid Sonics but by a member who likes them, @Garlu But Liquid Sonics did reply defending their copy protection decision, so it belongs here. I'll just say to them "You have the right to protect yourself. Lock it down so not even one evil person can steal your software. I am for you protecting yourself from them, but because by keeping them out, you also punish me, a potential buyer, you shan't see any of my money." That is my right, just as it is their right to make sure not even one person steals their software. I won't steal it. I won't even be using it.




Seriously?????? There's *way more than "1 evil person"* using pirated software.
Developers have every right imo to earn $$ from their work,you're not being *"punished."*
You have choice whether to buy or not buy software & the developer has the choice if they want to actually sell their products instead of having it stolen by hundreds if not thousands of thieves on the internet.

*Do you and would you happily work for free if people wanted to utilize your works and not pay you for your time or service??*

The developer is also making a choice that he wants to sell his hard work and try to avoid having it stolen.

Speaking for myself, I want talented developers to make as much $$ as the market will allow so they can stay in business and keep producing innovative products.

The reality imo is there are dishonest people who will steal software if it's easy enough to do..............................
If something like iLock deters some of the thieves so a good company can stay in business,I'm all for it.

I've never had a problem with any iLock dongles and several times I've found myself setting up a new computer or installing a new boot drive I have loved the time saved with getting up and running via iLock and often think it would be great if all software authorizations were that easy to implement.........

Do I like Pace or their no downtime paradigm? Absolutely not but I'd really be bummed out if good developers couldn't stay productive,in business and turn the profit they're entitled to because pirates were stealing their products.

It sounds like you're actually offended that a developer wants to protect their work,imagine how they feel seeing pirated copies all over the internet...........


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## Hannes_F (Apr 20, 2017)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Every time a product is protected by ILok, we get the same tired argument.
> I am more interested with feedback about the product, rather than the same old bitching.
> 
> Developers need to protect their investment, whether it is efficient or not.


This, and the iLok discussion is really getting old. No problems here whatsoever since many years.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 20, 2017)

Hannes_F said:


> This, and the iLok discussion is really getting old. No problems here whatsoever since many years.





kgdrum said:


> Seriously?????? There's way more than "1 evil person" using pirated software.
> Developers have every right imo to earn $$ from their work,you're not being "punished."



I just built a new computer. It took every spare hour that I had for two months entering serial numbers and installing software. Even the iLok developers made me install software that looked for the ilok to make it work. Maybe you don't feel punished kgdrum, but I do. So let me feel punished. Yes it is old to you, Hannes. It is very old but yet very real to me now. Don't read my posts. That is what I suggest to both of you. That way you won't feel violated. Then you won't grow tired and weary of my opinion about this. I never said 1 evil person kgdrum. I said 1 percent. Huge difference. One percent of 10,000 people is 100 evil people. OK maybe 99% of people are evil, so 9900 out of 10,000 will steal software, if given the chance so the software developers have to protect themselves from the 99%. I have trouble believing that. That thinking is what fuels racial profiling and make people who do that feel justified.

I could not do that with my software. I got a pretty fun job to make money to live and survive. Not as fun as music and nuclear software, but still fun. Then I wrote software that was really fun for me to do and gave it away for free. 30,000 unique visits per month on my free nuclear software site and fans from all over the world send me thanks all the time. I won't do what I love for money because it taints the fun. It is OK to disagree with me though. So you'll do what's fun for money, but you will punish your good hearted users as well as the pirates. No way to get around that, at least no way that I have thought of.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 20, 2017)

anthraxsnax said:


> News flash, nobody cares
> 
> Again, how does this reverb compare to the reverberate 2 banks?



I tried the 14 day demo. It is good but really no better than or not even a good as Eventide, UAD Lexicon or Vahalla Vintage Verb. Eventide and Lexicon are emulations of expensive studio boxes that are tried and true. So is this one. Bricasti. Box for box, is the expensive Bricasti better than Lexicon or Eventide? Depends on what you like. If you like it, buy it, then brag about owning it, if anybody really cares what you buy or think. ☺ (sorry friend, had to nudge you on that) My favorite DAW verb is still EastWest Quantum Leap Spaces. It is beyond transparent. It is natural and if you mix it so that you can't really hear it, unless you turn it off, then it shines. I may still buy this Liquid Sonics product because it has a sound of its own that is unique and in some ways probably better than the studio Bricasti black box. I mean really, which reverb depends on the track you are mixing, so they are all good. I never downloaded or bought Reverberate 2 so I can't answer your question about that. But from listening to this new plugin, I can say that Liquid Sonics are smart and solid programmers. They know what they are doing and it sounds great. I'll give them some of my money and put it on my iLok 3, in spite of my disagreement with their protection policy.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 20, 2017)

Personally, I am happy with the reverbs I have and not interested. (UAD verbs, QL Spaces, PSP 2445, Adaptiverb, Logic verbs)

That said, our member Jack Weaver owns not only a lot of software verbs but several expensive hardware reverbs, including the Bricasti, and I believe he thinks it is pretty much the top dog. Engineer John Rodd, who has popped in from time to time, told me the same thing. 

So if it is a faithful rendition, maybe worth considering if you are not 100% happy with the ones you have.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 20, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Personally, I am happy with the reverbs I have and not interested. (UAD verbs, QL Spaces, PSP 2445, Adaptiverb, Logic verbs)
> 
> That said, our member Jack Weaver owns not only a lot of software verbs but several expensive hardware reverbs, including the Bricasti, and I believe he thinks it is pretty much the top dog. Engineer John Rodd, who has popped in from time to time, told me the same thing.
> 
> So if it is a faithful rendition, maybe worth considering if you are not 100% happy with the ones you have.



Excellent advice as always Jay. Vox causa.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 20, 2017)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Every time a product is protected by ILok, we get the same tired argument.
> I am more interested with feedback about the product, rather than the same old bitching.
> 
> Developers need to protect their investment, whether it is efficient or not.



Yep.


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## quantum7 (Apr 20, 2017)

I've been using seventh heaven for a couple of months now (beta team) and is become one of my favorite reverbs now, along with R4. Liquidsonics did an excellent job!!! 

Also, enough with the stupid iLok dissing already. I and probably 95% of everyone else has rarely, if never, had a problem with iLok.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 20, 2017)

This is a commercial announcement. Please start an iLok hate thread if you want - and I seriously hope you don't want - but it doesn't belong in this one.


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## MarcelM (Apr 20, 2017)

quantum7 said:


> I've been using seventh heaven for a couple of months now (beta team) and is become one of my favorite reverbs now, along with R4. Liquidsonics did an excellent job!!!
> 
> Also, enough with the stupid iLok dissing already. I and probably 95% of everyone else has rarely, if never, had a problem with iLok.



can you say how does it compare against reverberate 2 and its m7 impulses?


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## SoNowWhat? (Apr 20, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> OK @SoNowWhat, but my discussion was not about iLok. It was about Liquid Sonics not allowing computer authorization because of the 1% of pirates who stole their software and iLok computer authorization not being secure enough because there are soooooo many evil pirates out there. There are more pirates than honest people according their policy and they are the most paranoid kid on the block so they take my hit.. After building new computer, I love iLok and eLicenser because it eased my non-pirate woes. I disagree. It belongs here because this is not an iLok issue or complaint against them. It is a Liquid Sonics paranoia issue and a complaint against against them. To "down the rhetoric" is a nice way of saying "shut up." OK, I'll shut up. Did you ever write software and sell it and worry about people stealing it? I did, so I get a say. Do you have a say? If so, I'd love to hear your story. What is the software scene down under? Love to hear how it is different from America and Europe and Middle East and Far East.


I really didn't mean for you to shut up at all. I thought you had good points to make and said as much. I am not a software developer so can't comment on that front. I've said earlier in this thread that iLok dongle means no-go for me but, I can appreciate that devs need to take whatever steps they deem necessary to protect their IP. I didn't intend to offend you so if I did my sincere apologies.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 20, 2017)

Okay, but as I moderator I am saying - asking politely - to please shut up in this thread. 

Developers invest a lot of money, time, and heart in their products. Let's stick to the commercial announcement here, please.

The Gear Talk or OT sections would be appropriate for this kind of banter if you want to start another thread about iLoks. I happen to suspect that nobody cares, but that's not the point.


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## sostenuto (Apr 20, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Okay, but as I moderator I am saying - asking politely - to please shut up in this thread.
> 
> Developers invest a lot of money, time, and heart in their products. Let's stick to the commercial announcement here, please.
> 
> The Gear Talk or OT sections would be appropriate for this kind of banter if you want to start another thread about iLoks. I happen to suspect that nobody cares, but that's not the point.



In addition to _Like_ your Post ... and as a very new User here .... puzzled a bit by 'high traffic' COMMERCIAL Announcement Threads (ex. BT Phobos) which have good content, yet go on and on and never appear in SAMPLE Talk. Easy to depart from COMMERCIAL intent/benefit and then _zapped_.


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## playz123 (Apr 20, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> In addition to _Like_ your Post ... and as a very new User here .... puzzled a bit by 'high traffic' COMMERCIAL Announcement Threads (ex. BT Phobos) which have good content, yet go on and on and never appear in SAMPLE Talk. Easy to depart from COMMERCIAL intent/benefit and then _zapped_.


Just in case you are a bit puzzled by "Commercial" threads...I may be misunderstanding the content of your post...the idea is to keep comments focused on a discussion of the product itself and not go off on tangents about other developer's products or, as you've noticed, things like complaints about iLok. This thread is indeed in the Commercial announcements, but there's a wee bit of a 'grey' area in this one, because Vanessa (Garlu) posted it, not the developer. Nevertheless, the consensus seems to be to respect the developer, focus on the product as usual (I agree), and if one insists, discuss other things elsewhere. Threads like the Phobos one can occasionally go off track too, but also can be dragged back fairly quickly. In general, the interest in the product is usually so high at the time, that the discussion threads about problems or complaints may not show up until later (or not at all), and are then posted in Sample Talk. Does that, in any way, address your puzzlement?


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 20, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Okay, but as I moderator I am saying - asking politely - to please shut up in this thread.
> 
> Developers invest a lot of money, time, and heart in their products. Let's stick to the commercial announcement here, please.
> 
> The Gear Talk or OT sections would be appropriate for this kind of banter if you want to start another thread about iLoks. I happen to suspect that nobody cares, but that's not the point.



Take a really close look at the very first post Nick. This was not a commercial announcement posted by the developer, Liquid Sonics, but by a normal, everyday user. If you are upset by this, really, you are a moderator. You have the power in your hands to move it to Sample Talk or gear talk, or another topic where it should be. If you are going to weigh in, at least do your research. You were probably too busy to read the first post and made assumptions by coming in during the middle of the discussion. I understand and forgive you for that.

To all who got upset by my opinions, if you take a suspected warlock and put him in a barrel of water and hold his head down for three minutes and he drowns, that means that he is not a warlock. Give me the warlock test and I'll drown and then you will be rid of me my controversial opinions. OK, now I'll shut up.


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## MarcelM (Apr 20, 2017)

if it was posted by the developer or not... it became a (senseless for me) dongle discussion. questions are overlooked and not answered.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 20, 2017)

I know Garlu posted it, SpeakPP, and it became a commercial announcement as soon as she did (because Liquidsonics then didn't need to do it themselves).

As with iLoks, if you want to talk about how the forum is moderated, please post in another area. The topic here is Liquidsonics' new reverb.


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## sostenuto (Apr 20, 2017)

playz123 said:


> Just in case you are a bit puzzled by "Commercial" threads...I may be misunderstanding the content of your post...the idea is to keep comments focused on a discussion of the product itself and not go off on tangents about other developer's products or, as you've noticed, things like complaints about iLok. This thread is indeed in the Commercial announcements, but there's a wee bit of a 'grey' area in this one, because Vanessa (Garlu) posted it, not the developer. Nevertheless, the consensus seems to be to nevertheless respect the developer, focus on the product as usual (I agree), and if one insists, discuss other things elsewhere. Threads like the Phobos one can occasionally go off track too, but also can be dragged back fairly quickly. In general, the interest in the product is usually so high at the time, that the discussion threads about problems or complaints may not show up until later (or not at all), and are then posted in Sample Talk. Does that, in any way, address your puzzlement?



Sure. I do understand (now) the relative 'sanctity' of COMMERCIAL Announcement Thread. As a really 'new' member, some hesitation to initiate such a new SAMPLE Talk thread unless having purchased the product. I guess 'puzzlement' will pass .... whenever a BT Phobos SAMPLE Talk thread appears. Often seems like such should open along with n_ew COMMERCIAL intros. _


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## playz123 (Apr 20, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> but by a normal, everyday user.



LOL, are you implying Vanessa is "normal".. and an 'everyday user' as well?  Not going to touch that one myself, since she's quite capable of coming to her own defense if necessary!

(Just kidding here, of course. No disrespect to either party!)


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## Ashermusic (Apr 20, 2017)

playz123 said:


> LOL, are you implying Vanessa is "normal".. and an 'everyday user' as well?  Not going to touch that one myself, since she's quite capable of coming to her own defense if necessary!
> 
> (Just kidding here, of course. No disrespect to either party!)



Vanessa is an exceptional composer and musician.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 20, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I know Garlu posted it, SpeakPP, and it became a commercial announcement as soon as she did (because Liquidsonics then didn't need to do it themselves).
> 
> As with iLoks, if you want to talk about how the forum is moderated, please post in another area. The topic here is Liquidsonics' new reverb.



Fantastic. Now I know that I can post anything in commercial announcements and it will be treated as gold. Can't say anything negative about any product posted in commercial announcements, even if the company did not post it, lest you be chastised by a moderator. Gonna give it a try now. By the way, my post was not anti-iLok. I have no problem with them. I love iLok. My problem as expressed was with developers who are convinced that they need it. Everyone who hates my post are proving my point. We are all honest. We pay them the software costs. But they think that we are all dishonest and will steal their software so they protect themselves from us. But they What you are saying is that shall be no dissenting views on VI Control, even if it is posted by a user, not the developer. will sell it to us dishonest sorts as long as we make them their tidy profit. Liquid Sonics defended their copy protection scheme so I responded as a software developer, not a user.

Sorry, gotta go. They are trying to put a Chick-fil-A in my small town and that makes me feel unsafe. Gotta go protest. In my country, the USA, conservatives disagree with liberals all the time and always have. What you are saying is there shall be no dissenting views on VI Control, especially on the Commercial Announcement page, even if it is posted by a user, not the company? I think what you are saying is dissenting views make you feel unsafe, like Chick-fil-A. Wow. Good thing the new Vice President of the USA has not scheduled a visit to your company. He would find everyone hiding under their desk in fear.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 20, 2017)

No


playz123 said:


> LOL, are you implying Vanessa is "normal".. and an 'everyday user' as well?  Not going to touch that one myself, since she's quite capable of coming to her own defense if necessary!
> 
> (Just kidding here, of course. No disrespect to either party!)



No disrespect taken. I always love your opinion. Yours often changes mine. Maybe a bad example, Vanessa. Maybe I should have said James Stewart or Carol Lombard. That would have made my point and threw you off guard.


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## guydoingmusic (Apr 20, 2017)

Two bits of good news in this thread. 

1. New reverb that I'm looking forward to trying.
2. "Look, kids! A troll!!"


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 20, 2017)

guydoingmusic said:


> Two bits of good news in this thread.
> 
> 1. New reverb that I'm looking forward to trying.
> 2. "Look, kids! A troll!!"




Speaking words of wisdom, let it be, let it be.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 20, 2017)

SpeakPP, you can insult me any way you want, but accusing me of being conservative is over the line.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 20, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Vanessa is an exceptional composer and musician.



So if you are an incredible composer, like Vanessa, you are allowed an opinion on this site, but if not, your opinion is not allowed? Sounds a lot like Fascism to me. Oh darned. I'll bet you can't say Fascism on this forum, mush less Castro and Cuba. Five years ago, I overheard some doves talking about Castro. They were saying "coup, coup...."


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 20, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> SpeakPP, you can insult me any way you want, but accusing me of being conservative is over the line.



I know that you are not conservative Nick, so you just proved my point. We speak different versions of English. I would never want to insult you. I would never want to upset you. But I have. For that, I apologize to you. It feel strange apologizing for something that I did not do but that was perceived as my intentions. But that is OK. I have actually said worse things to my mom and sisters, whom I adore. So apologizing to you is like apologizing to them.

I am sorry. Are you nice? Then forgive me.


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## Saxer (Apr 20, 2017)

I don't own a Bricasti and I never worked with one.
I know the Lexicon stuff and as far as I know the secret of the Lexi reverb is - beside a clear sound and not too much treble - the slight pitch modulation of the reverb tail. That makes the Lexicons rather resistant against impulse response sampling because the modulation can't be captured.
Does the Bricasti work in the same way? And if so, does Seventh Heaven also modulate the impulse responses?


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## jtnyc (Apr 20, 2017)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> So if you are an incredible composer, like Vanessa, you are allowed an opinion on this site, but if not, your opinion is not allowed? Sounds a lot like Fascism to me. Oh darned. I'll bet you can't say Fascism on this forum, mush less Castro and Cuba. Five years ago, I overheard some doves talking about Castro. They were saying "coup, coup...."



Ohhhhh, such a poor poor victim being persecuted by the horrible fascists of VI-Control. Give it a break man! You hijacked this thread, insisted on keeping it way off topic, and have been carrying on like an adolescent with belittling comments, insults, and not "clever" quips the whole way. The smartest "cleverest" guy in the world who can't resist an opportunity to attempt to display it any way he can. You moan that people are trying to stifle your opinions. That's not it at all. It's that your opinions have nothing to do with the OP. People click on this thread to see what people think of 7th Heaven, not listen to your off topic, nonsensical pontifications. 

Maybe you should change your screen name because you hardly speak pianissimo. A more appropriate name might be, SpeakForteAndBelittleAndInsult... Oh what the internet is breeding...


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## jamwerks (Apr 20, 2017)

Saxer said:


> Does the Bricasti work in the same way? And if so, does Seventh Heaven also modulate the impulse responses?


Pretty sure that Fusion sampling should capture anything, modulation included. Maybe similar to how "the sound" of a compressor can be modeled, by taking hundreds(?) of pictures (in delayed time intervales) of what is going on...


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## SoNowWhat? (Apr 20, 2017)

anthraxsnax said:


> Remember, flaming weapons... fire stops troll regeneration


What if they make the saving throw? Does it still apply?


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## creativeforge (Apr 20, 2017)




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## Stiltzkin (Apr 21, 2017)

Got the chance to test this out last night, am incredibly impressed! It's just.. fits better than my other reverbs, without being able to REALLY tell what it is that sounds better.

In addition I'm liking longer tails still sounding great, which is generally a problem I find with many other reverbs.

Has my vote and I'll be buying it when the demo runs out.


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## wst3 (Apr 21, 2017)

I'm kinda sorry I downloaded the demo... it is a very nice reverb, and it does things that none of my current go-to stable can do, which isn't terribly surprising, he's a pretty clever guy!!

But, it isn't different enough, to my ears, as of last night, to justify the investment. Which is a shame, I'd love to support his efforts (and I'd love to have a shiny new reverb<G>!)

If you don't own a reverb that you can use almost anywhere it is worthy of serious consideration! If I did not own Exponential Audio R4 and Nimbus along side Reverberate (and a hardware PCM-90) I'd probably get it. Between those three I think I am pretty well covered for now.

If it were less expensive I'd probably get it, but I'm not sure what "less expensive" really means.

One thing I really like about it is the UI, as much as I love what Reverberate can do I dread opening the UI because I'm going to spend a fair chunk of time tweaking.

I don't own a Bricasti, so I can't compare it to the hardware, but I do own, and use, a PCM-90, and I think this is the closest thing to a hardware reverb I've heard.

Don't know if that helps anyone, but that's my take.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 21, 2017)

wst3 said:


> 1. But, it isn't different enough, to my ears, as of last night, to justify the investment.
> 
> 2. I think this is the closest thing to a hardware reverb I've heard.




I am confused Bill. these seem to me to be contradictory statements.


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## wst3 (Apr 21, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> I am confused Bill. these seem to me to be contradictory statements.


Sorry, didn't mean to be confusing, but we are treading very close to "dancing about architecture"...

Let me try!

The reason I jump through hoops to use the PCM-90 hardware (and working with outboard gear is not as easy as working with plugins!) is that it behaves differently than any of my reverb plugins. It is difficult to describe it, it's even difficult to demonstrate it unless you are sitting next to me, but there is a "dynamic randomness" (yes, I invented that term, I think) that is present in the hardware, but not yet present in any of my plugins. This is especially true for convolution reverb plugins, and that makes sense, the whole convolution process is based on a time invariant sample... sure it can be LOTS of time invariant samples, but that's just a limitation of the approach. Which is why (I think) most of us use both algorithmic and convolution reverb plugins?

So the thing that struck me first was that 7th Heaven behaves more like a hardware reverb, or specifically my hardware reverb.

Which is bizarre - the Bricasti and the later Lexicon reverbs are, for lack of a better term, algorithmic reverbs. They are running on specialized hardware (Lexi does, never pulled the cover off a Bricasti). At least in theory there shouldn't be that big a difference.

I should also point out the audibility of any differences between reverbs (hardwave vs software or software vs software) is dependent on the program material. 

And of course there is the "shiny new" factor to consider. I'm no more immune that anyone else! But, based on a couple hours of poking and prodding I'd have to say that (a) 7th Heaven is a top tier reverb plugin, absolutely worthy of consideration if you are unhappy with your current tools, and (b) one of the more striking impressions is that it behaves more like dedicated hardware than anything I own. Not a replacement, yet, but dang it is close.

And by that I mean closer than R4, Nimbus, Reverberate, the UA Lexi 224, or Valhalla Vintage Verb. All of which are first rate reverb plugins! But not MILES closer. Or rather not closer enough to justify the investment today.

I'll spend some more time with it since I still have time on the demo, because I'd be thrilled to be able to put the PCM-90 up on eBay, or at least not have to mess with external inserts as often. 

I have no idea if that helps, it's really difficult to describe some of these things. I will spend some time this weekend trying to record a couple tracks to try to demonstrate what I'm hearing. (And of course the caveat applies - I spent the majority of my studio life working with hardware reverb processors, that has to have left a mark<G>!)


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## Ashermusic (Apr 21, 2017)

It does help, thanks. Bottom line for me is that while I am indeed happy with my reverbs, if I can get a software reverb at that price that _truly_ rivals boxes that cost over 3k, I might consider it. Keep us updated, please.


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## Øivind (Apr 21, 2017)

Darnit, i just bought VSS3 native a couple of weeks ago. Just the GUI of this makes me wanna buy it ^^.
Gonna download the demo this weekend and try.


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## wst3 (Apr 21, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> It does help, thanks. Bottom line for me is that while I am indeed happy with my reverbs, if I can get a software reverb at that price that _truly_ rivals boxes that cost over 3k, I might consider it. Keep us updated, please.



And there's the rub!

In all candor the PCM-90 is not a M-7, it isn't even the best reverb Lexicon ever sold. And yet it adds something to the mix that I've been unable to add with a plug-in (and that could be entirely on me and a lack of skill, but since I can get that extra little bit of magic with the PCM-90 that's what I do.)

Will any plug-in ever replace hardware?

I think it does happen from time to time. I think the UAD dBX 160 sounds better than most of the hardware 160s I've used - it's kind of an "idealized" version. Same goes for the UAD LA-2 and probably the UAD 1176, and some of the API and Neve preamps, although I would never turn down the hardware versions - and in some cases the imperfections in the hardware provide character that the model does not.

The UAD Lexicon 224 is amazing, but it behaves differently than the 224s that I used years ago - or at least it behaves differently than I remember the hardware behavior. Which is better? Is there a "better"?

Without a Bricasti M7 in my studio I'm afraid I can't say "truly rivals". Heck with my monitors and ears I might not be able to answer. And my version of "truly rivals" might be different than your version. I'm familiar with some of your plugins, and I've heard a number of your mixes. And I still can't say with any certainty that 7th Heaven will up your game. It will add to your tools, and you'll use it, but will it up your game?

These days I try to think less about "does this plugin replace the hardware?" and more about "does this plugin add to my capabilities?" or even "does this plugin (or library) just sound really cool?" It's a matter of mindset, and discipline (I could easily go broke on software alone!)

The 7th Heaven plugin is fantastic, and sounds awesome, and it's easy to use. But I haven't begun to wring every last ounce out of Nimbus or R4.

If only I were independently wealthy.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 21, 2017)

wst3 said:


> And there's the rub!
> 
> In all candor the PCM-90 is not a M-7, it isn't even the best reverb Lexicon ever sold. And yet it adds something to the mix that I've been unable to add with a plug-in (and that could be entirely on me and a lack of skill, but since I can get that extra little bit of magic with the PCM-90 that's what I do.)
> 
> ...



Thanks, if I don't download the demo, I won't have to decide


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## wst3 (Apr 21, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Thanks, if I don't download the demo, I won't have to decide


Proving once again that you are the much wiser man!


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## malachy (Apr 21, 2017)

Saxer said:


> I don't own a Bricasti and I never worked with one.
> I know the Lexicon stuff and as far as I know the secret of the Lexi reverb is - beside a clear sound and not too much treble - the slight pitch modulation of the reverb tail. That makes the Lexicons rather resistant against impulse response sampling because the modulation can't be captured.
> Does the Bricasti work in the same way? And if so, does Seventh Heaven also modulate the impulse responses?



Yes, the M7 has a set of clean tail presets and one with modulation so you'll see preset banks like Chambers1 and Chamber2. The convolution sampling does capture the Bricasti default modulation. AFAIK in SH you can't change that amount like you could in an algo reverb but it's fine, subtle but present. 

From the SH Pro manual: "The number after the category indicates the version of the M7 algorithm used in the presets. The v1 algorithm presets have static tails, and the v2 presets have modulated tails. All have modulated early reflections and very low frequency reverb components."
https://downloads.liquidsonics.com/software/seventh-heaven-professional/manual/Seventh_Heaven_Professional_Manual-v1.000.pdf


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## MarcelM (Apr 21, 2017)

sooo again... iam not at home and cant try the demo yet.
is it alot better than reverberate 2? 

maybe someone has an audio comparison file?


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## Silence-is-Golden (Apr 21, 2017)

For those who might not seen this,
This what the highly critical yet always amusing forum member "repeteer" wrote at 'the other vi forum":

_The first few hours I wasn’t too impressed with this plug-in, even to the point of thinking: I hope this doesn’t sound anything like a Bricasti, because if this is what a Bricasti sounds like, I honestly don’t understand what the fuss is all about.

But those first few hours have passed, and I’ve grown rather more enthusiastic. And accustomed to the tune, it whistles night and noon.
While I’m still not sure about several of the larger spaces — there’s something whirly going in some of these long tails which might work very well in a mix (haven’t tried that yet), but which, on its own, I don’t really like the sound of —, the short reverbs however are rrrrreally good. 

I also like the ‘Ambience’ category very much. Some of these presets don’t generate a discernible reverb, but more a sort of suggestion of air around a source signal. Very, very useful. (To give one example: a great way to push a bass back in the mix without having to give it potentially dangerous amounts of reverb.)

Well designed, very versatile — with lots of control of just about everything you ever might want to control (except stereowidth), good sound (not quite “Wow! Never heard reverb like this before!”-good perhaps, but still pretty good and sounding really different from everything else I own), so I switched the demo license for a permanent one. I'm already using it on a job, and to good effect, which was an extra stimulant._


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 21, 2017)

wst3 said:


> Proving once again that you are the much wiser man!



I enjoyed your exchange with Jay. Really, reverb should be used so subtlety, if used properly, it can be difficult to tell one from another. Yet, I can still tell when QL Spaces did a better job than B2. But the truth is, nobody else could tell.....my best guess. I am going to give them some money to keep them going though going against what I said in my first post. They are on the right track and I feel guilty about all of my toxic posts now. This seems to be a big step up from their previous software so the next big step, in a few years, may be the killer VST reverb that we all want and that everyone can hear the difference. I am not saying you guys should buy it. But I should buy it just because them allowing me to express my anti-software protection opinion. I had no idea that I was the only person out of billions who felt that way. Now I know. Sorry Liquid Sonics. You do good work. You will see my money soon.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 21, 2017)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> For those who might not seen this,
> This what the highly critical yet always amusing forum member "repeteer" wrote at 'the other vi forum":



@Repeteer is something else. I love him because he is a bass player and they all rock!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 21, 2017)

Continuing wst3 and Jay's discussion here:

http://vi-control.net/community/thr...ardware-continued-from-bricasti-thread.61479/


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## garylionelli (Apr 21, 2017)

I own an actual Bricasti M7, and without a doubt, it's been my most important studio acquisition in the last 3 years. Nothing sounds as good as an M7, in my opinion, and part of the reason for that is how the M7 melds with the source. All other reverbs sound like the source plus reverb on top, almost as a separate layer that you can hear apart from the source. This is the reason so many love the M7, it solves this problem. I was talking to Brian from Bricasti about this and he said it was one of their prime directives in its design.

I've been thinking about getting a second M7 for the six months, but I bought Seventh Heaven Pro and compared dozens of its presets to their counterparts on the actual M7. It's so incredibly close, and most of the time completely indistinguishable from the hardware. It also has that same source-melding characteristic. I'm thrilled with it.


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## wst3 (Apr 21, 2017)

Thanks Gary, I think your "source-melding" is very descriptive. I don't own the M7, but I am trying 7th Heaven, and I think the description fits. I find that Nimbus and R4 have a similar impact, curious if you've ever tried them?

Sadly I'm still not sure that 7th Heaven would improve my mixes (not suggesting my mixes can't benefit from improvements, rather that my skills aren't yet up to the task!). But you've given me something to think about, put words to an impression I couldn't put into words.


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## garylionelli (Apr 21, 2017)

wst3 said:


> Thanks Gary, I think your "source-melding" is very descriptive. I don't own the M7, but I am trying 7th Heaven, and I think the description fits. I find that Nimbus and R4 have a similar impact, curious if you've ever tried them?
> 
> Sadly I'm still not sure that 7th Heaven would improve my mixes (not suggesting my mixes can't benefit from improvements, rather that my skills aren't yet up to the task!). But you've given me something to think about, put words to an impression I couldn't put into words.



I have Nimbus and haven't really given it a fair shake yet, and not sure I'll get around to it (too into the M7 and Seventh Heaven for now). I do own Exponential's M7 Control for use with my actual M7 though, it's great.


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## guydoingmusic (Apr 21, 2017)

garylionelli said:


> I own an actual Bricasti M7, and without a doubt, it's been my most important studio acquisition in the last 3 years. Nothing sounds as good as an M7, in my opinion, and part of the reason for that is how the M7 melds with the source. All other reverbs sound like the source plus reverb on top, almost as a separate layer that you can hear apart from the source. This is the reason so many love the M7, it solves this problem. I was talking to Brian from Bricasti about this and he said it was one of their prime directives in its design.
> 
> I've been thinking about getting a second M7 for the six months, but I bought Seventh Heaven Pro and compared dozens of its presets to their counterparts on the actual M7. It's so incredibly close, and most of the time completely indistinguishable from the hardware. It also has that same source-melding characteristic. I'm thrilled with it.



any chance you could post a couple of side by side examples? I know that may be asking a lot with busy schedules and all. So please feel free to decline my request. I'm just curious to hear the similarities/differences.


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## garylionelli (Apr 21, 2017)

guydoingmusic said:


> any chance you could post a couple of side by side examples? I know that may be asking a lot with busy schedules and all. So please feel free to decline my request. I'm just curious to hear the similarities/differences.


Not sure I can do that at the moment, thx.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Apr 21, 2017)

garylionelli said:


> Not sure I can do that at the moment, thx.



Thanks for the input Gary. Much appreciated. It will ease many minds I am sure, even without demos representing what you said.


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## Frederick Russ (Apr 21, 2017)

Just so we don't get into any illusions here, the original poster is a not a developer. Why it ended up in commercial announcements is a mystery. Looks like Liquidsonics got a treasure chest of free advertising. Thread locked. If Matt wants to get advertising, he'll let us know. In the interim, regarding commercial announcement protocol, since this wasn't really, no harm no foul. And no more comments.


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