# RME PCI/e soundcards. HDSPe AIO vs RayDAT and other questions.



## Tom Ferguson (Jul 4, 2015)

Hi there guys.

I've recently upgraded to 32gb ram and have started making large templates (well not Junkie XL large  in cubase 8 and am using a Steinberg UR22 and a intel i5-4960 in Windows 7 to run it.

But although cubase and the ram are more than happy to load the instruments I've been having to have the buffer size at 196 with nothing written in the project and with only the standard mix and master fx. When the project starts to get bigger I will soon have to crank the latancy to more like 512 or higher.

So I'm presuming I'm going to need a new soundcard with more processing power, and the RME PCIe cards seem to be the best bet to me, I know very little about internal soundcards, or soundcards in general tbh, but I'm more than open to suggestions.
Just bare in mind that about £400 is really the max I can go as I'm going to uni soon so I only have a limited amount of money to disperse between all the gear I want for it.

I have been pretty set on the RME HDSPe RayDAT as it seems a bit more feature rich but hadn't given much thought to the in/outs I would need (TBH it's really just the stereo outs I need for the time being as I am doing most/all of my composing using just VSTi's). I have seen there are some breakout cables from RME with the functionality that I need, but they seem to only be compatible with the AIO according to the RME website. Just so you know I don't want to be having to pay £100 extra for an expansion card if I can.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick with the RayDAT (or these cards in general) and it isn't actually for the applications I need, or is it all much easier than I realise, or would the HDSPe AIO or another card be better?

Also would upgrading my CPU to the i7 4gh version be much of a power increase?


Cheers for taking the time to read and I hope my queries make sense.


----------



## Tom Ferguson (Jul 4, 2015)

I've realised that it comes with some breakout cables, which include this I believe. http://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_bo968_aesebu_breakoutkabel.htm
Would this be sufficient? I don't really want to be using phono if they are the outputs.
Would it actually be possible to use these? http://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_bo9632_breakoutkabel.htm


----------



## Gerhard Westphalen (Jul 4, 2015)

If you look at the bottom of the product pages on the RME website it shows which breakout cables are included. 

The raydat doesn't have any analogue converters so unless you have converters you'll need either the expansion card or the AIO. I'm assuming that for your needs the AIO would be better since it doesn't look like you'll be needing all the adat i/o.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2015)

I have used the HDSPe-AIO for years and it has been great.


----------



## sherief83 (Jul 5, 2015)

due to my recent experiences with the Aio. I will have to caution you a bit about a few things you may encounter. i don't know if this is an issue with all RME Pci-e cards but if you do go for the Aio, Be aware that the cards are super sensitive to noise, Meaning once you install the Aio, any noise coming from a spinning hard drive or loud fan will reflect to the card and you'll hear those noises in your headphones. even moving the mouse sometimes. 

I found out after making the purchase as I was in the same boat as you that I needed to isolate the RME card completely from the chases of the Mac pro. meaning that the only part that needs to be touching is the PCI-E plug, the metal plate that secures the card into the chases of your PC or Mac, needs to be isolated or padded to not have metal touching metal. that actually solved the noise for me completely.

Also the balanced breakout cables are recommended far more than the what comes stock with it, does help with the noise issue once you do xlr balanced out (you'll select it in the DSP tool) 

And finally, for Macs and this is actually no big deal for me at all but the RME drivers do not control the audio over all volume of the Mac, meaning you have to use the Total Mix software to control the over all volume of the Card.

I'm over all pleased with the sound and i run up to 100 instruments at once with no issues or any major cpu spikes or render issues. (minus the occasional logic hiccup)

You mentioned CPU upgrade is an option, I would actually do that as well. both upgrades will show improvements. Over all, SSD, cpu and pci would be your best route (don't put any ssds in raid, access time is slower and won't help load time)

Hope all of this helps.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Jul 5, 2015)

That was an issue with some of the earlier cards that RME resolved I believe.


----------



## sherief83 (Jul 5, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> That was an issue with some of the earlier cards that RME resolved I believe.



Right, I thought that as well before I made my purchase, I have the latest hardware revision which is 1.4 but still the same. I honestly didn't have time to deal with returning it, i tried the padding thing and it worked for me at the time and still working perfectly fine here. a bit disappointing for its price but works ok now! maybe i'll contact RME to see if they have any other solutions.


----------



## Ozymandias (Jul 5, 2015)

sherief83 said:


> meaning that the only part that needs to be touching is the PCI-E plug, the metal plate that secures the card into the chases of your PC or Mac, needs to be isolated or padded to not have metal touching metal. that actually solved the noise for me completely.



I've never tried something like that, but wouldn't you still have continuity between the card and chassis via the PCI-E ground and motherboard?


----------



## playz123 (Jul 5, 2015)

I've been using an RME Multiface II in a variety of computers for several years now....and it's performed flawlessly. I had no noise problems at all in my 2008 Mac Pro, and with my new 2014 Mac Pro the PCIe card is housed in an OWC enclosure and connected via Thunderbolt with absolutely no issues either. As for using Total Mix ("meaning you have to use the Total Mix software to control the over all volume of the Card"), personally I consider that as a 'positive'. It can be a bit daunting the first time one opens TM though.


----------



## Tom Ferguson (Jul 5, 2015)

Cheers for the replies guys!

Yep it seems the aio is what I have been looking for 




sherief83 said:


> due to my recent experiences with the Aio. I will have to caution you a bit about a few things you may encounter. i don't know if this is an issue with all RME Pci-e cards but if you do go for the Aio, Be aware that the cards are super sensitive to noise, Meaning once you install the Aio, any noise coming from a spinning hard drive or loud fan will reflect to the card and you'll hear those noises in your headphones. even moving the mouse sometimes.
> 
> I found out after making the purchase as I was in the same boat as you that I needed to isolate the RME card completely from the chases of the Mac pro. meaning that the only part that needs to be touching is the PCI-E plug, the metal plate that secures the card into the chases of your PC or Mac, needs to be isolated or padded to not have metal touching metal. that actually solved the noise for me completely.
> 
> ...




The noise problems have worried me slightly as I have a pretty noisy computer with 4 fans excluding the graphics card's 2 and the big CPU water cooler.

I do have a 1tb SSD but I have also got a 2tb hd for backup and stuff.

Is there anyone else out there with these problems? Or anyone with a noisy computer that works fine? I really don't want to have to do any work arounds if I don't have too. Hopefully (well for me... haha) it might just be a defect in your card.

Seems a little bizarre for a company as renowned as RME to have an issue like that.


----------



## chrysshawk (Jul 7, 2015)

I was in the same situation as the OP, RayDat vs AIO. Since the card would be used for mostly samples, I was happy to go with the latter and have not regretted this since. 

The main limitation with the AIO would be what you're going to do if you have much external gear (synths, guitars, mics) which needs be routed to the sound card. And you probably want a digital signal for that too (just for good A-D conversion, which one cannot expect from an internal soundcard). In my current setup I route two mono channels into the card digitally (through a focusrite ADC) and that works flawlessly. Just so that everything is hooked up, I also have a couple synths connected to the analogue inputs, what can I say, they're not great but get the work done.

CH


----------



## wpc982 (Aug 15, 2015)

Good thread here; an update re the HDSPe AIO and noise. I've had exactly the same problem, with low-level noise coming through headphones and also through the stereo out. Got very little help from RME support, they blamed it (maybe correctly, who knows) on other people and the PCI express design. It's an odd issue, sometimes it goes away for a long time, sometimes it comes back. Very irritating, and I'm certainly not buying the same card for a future build, though other than the noise it's a great audio interface. It seems to be worse when windows 7 Aero is turned on, and that's necessary for cubase ... vicious circle. I tend to turn aero on and off and on and off and on and off (off by setting the color depth to 16 for my video adapter settings for each monitor).


----------



## SEA (May 26, 2017)

Old thread I know, but I'm looking at picking up the HDSPe AIO for getting my latency down and having and extra ADDA is nice to be able to switch and listen from a different perspective. For now, I'll be running my UR28M S/PDIF out to the HDSPe AIO.

In the near future I'm picking on a Hilo and Prism Lyra 2 (or Prism's latest interface coming out at the end of the year).

So with that said, would it be best to connect one converter (let's say the Hilo) via ADAT (or whatever) and then the other (PRISM) through AES (etc.,) then switch between converters using TotalMix?

I know the Hilo offers routing as well so, perhaps it's best to connect the Prism to the Hilo and let the Hilo do all the work.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated. I know some end-users have complained about noise with it. Not that's it happens to everyone.

Is there a better option? The converters are nice but not necessary if another card is better overall.

Thanks!


----------



## JohnG (May 26, 2017)

if you are building a new computer you can use one of the ASUS boards that has a PCI slot (not even PCIe) and pick up an old 9652 card from RME for cheap on eBay.


----------



## SEA (May 26, 2017)

Isn't PCIe faster?


JohnG said:


> if you are building a new computer you can use one of the ASUS boards that has a PCI slot (not even PCIe) and pick up an old 9652 card from RME for cheap on eBay.



I'll be using it for my current system that has PCIe only. Plus the new MB I'm getting only has PCIe as well.

One thing to note about PCI vs. PCI is this:



> When you compare *PCI Express* video to *PCI* Video the difference is enormous: *PCI Express* 16x video is over 29x*faster than PCI* Video. ... A 16x *PCI Express* connection is at least 190%*Faster than* AGP 8x but this is the connection between the system and the video card.


----------



## TintoL (May 26, 2017)

I used a raydat for about 2 years. And now i have been using a aio for about 1 year. They behave exactly the same. Same driver, same latency (aio slightly better). Probably due to the clean integration of the analog converter. 

Keep in mind that the price difference is minimal between the two. The converter has a super clean sound. 

You will need the additional breakout cable. The one included has missing the xlr female and male if you are using them. 

Finally, the noise issue is not a problem anymore. With current cases full of issolating pads etc....is almost imposible. Plus rme hardware and drivers are flawless. It's the only flawless thing in my setup.

I can share my setup if you are intrested. Honestly, i wouldn't consider anything other than the aio because of transparency and reliability.


----------



## JohnG (May 26, 2017)

SEA said:


> One thing to note about PCI vs. PCI is this



I don't know about all the technical details, but I've been using Hammerfall cards on PCs for ages, and they absolutely rock at extremely low latency. Again, without knowing the technical details, I doubt that the throughput of PCI is inadequate to handle audio.


----------



## SEA (May 26, 2017)

JohnG said:


> I don't know about all the technical details, but I've been using Hammerfall cards on PCs for ages, and they absolutely rock at extremely low latency. Again, without knowing the technical details, I doubt that the throughput of PCI is inadequate to handle audio.



Good to know John! Thanks!


----------



## chimuelo (May 27, 2017)

PCI 32bit and PCI-e are the best options if you want to avoid packet burst USB MIDI.
Waiting for the AIO as we speak.
I'm making Chimuelo Jr. Build his own so to make things even easier he decided to stay with Logic and make it a Hackintosh.

My only question is who uses the RME Remote and is it worth having or just a luxury?

TonyMacx86 has a few ProTools and Lynx/RME builds posted.
We went with ASRock Z97 Extreme6/i7 4790k.

Can't wait to see AIO with external hardware and Tubes in action.


----------



## Badracket (Nov 19, 2019)

PCI has been more stable for me at my recording studio.


----------



## edding (Jul 30, 2020)

TintoL said:


> I used a raydat for about 2 years. And now i have been using a aio for about 1 year. They behave exactly the same. Same driver, same latency (aio slightly better). Probably due to the clean integration of the analog converter.


Sorry for write an old thread, but I'm really interested in the AIO vs Raydat comparison according only to latency performance.
Your comment is the only information I could find in internet comparing latency of both.
How is this "slightly better" performance for latency? do you have any number or any more information about this latency difference?


----------



## TintoL (Jul 30, 2020)

edding said:


> Sorry for write an old thread, but I'm really interested in the AIO vs Raydat comparison according only to latency performance.
> Your comment is the only information I could find in internet comparing latency of both.
> How is this "slightly better" performance for latency? do you have any number or any more information about this latency difference?



No problem, I enter old threads when I find something helpful. The apparent "better" performance between the two is actually "apparent", because I judged it by remembering more or less the real time performance I got when I had the ray dat. 

The only explanation for judgement I can give you is my setup compared to the previous one. 

I run about 1000 tracks. All instruments hosted in VEP. Only one audio track per vep instance. I could run about 50 tracks at medium speed with quick staccato notes on all tracks without hiccups at 1024 buffer size. With the AIO I could do the same, but I could get to 512 with hiccups, but not too many. 

So, it that sense, they were both very close. Where the AIO makes a difference is in the fact that you are paying the same but the AIO gives you the converters included. And that to me is the value. 

I wouldn't think one is better than the other one. Simply the AIO gives you the converter, and the AIO, in my view, was design to connect multiple cards with it having multiple additional channels. In my view, for a single card setup, the AIO is the proper product. 

One thing to know is that even though the rme aio is mega stable, window is very clunky at managing when to use a microphone for lets say a webcam and when to use it for recording. The setup gets destroyed often by windows, and I had to switch to an additional usb mic just to get proper stable audio on web calls. 

I hope that helps.


----------



## AR (Jul 31, 2020)

I actually use the aio, raydat and the 9652. All running simoultanesly in one machine. No performance issues. The raydat has more outputs than the aio and that's it. To me it's the same card but not so versatile. They have the same CPU usage which is in cubase idle 1-3%. Had them running one by one to test it.


----------

