# TENET Rhythms/Arps on Virtual Synths?



## KEM (Jun 22, 2021)

How would you go about creating these complex rhythms and arps on virtual synths? I have ZebraHZ, Diva, and Omnisphere and I’d love to try and recreate this patch (and the “dark” version in the second track) or something like it but when I tried in Zebra I couldn’t figure out how to get the same arp pattern, didn’t even seem like it was possible in Zebra, anyone have any ideas? I want to delve deep into synthesis and get better at it and the synths in TENET are the pinnacle for me so that’s what I want to learn how to replicate


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## Kuusniemi (Jun 23, 2021)

I think this kind of a thing would be fairly easy to create in Omnisphere. I would try with that.


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

Kuusniemi said:


> I think this kind of a thing would be fairly easy to create in Omnisphere. I would try with that.


I’m attempting it now and I just can’t figure out how to program a complex rhythm like that in the arpeggiator of Omni or Zebra, they don’t seem to allow you to use triplets or dotted notes along with regular note values in the same sequence


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> I’m attempting it now and I just can’t figure out how to program a complex rhythm like that in the arpeggiator of Omni or Zebra, they don’t seem to allow you to use triplets or dotted notes along with regular note values in the same sequence


Saw wave. Kind of a bit supersaw detuned slightly. Lfo attached to modwheel routed to filter cutoff. Double the speed of the 16 note arp. Some pitch bend. 

I'll give it a shot and see if I'm right and post the results. 

I too am interested in this.


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Saw wave. Kind of a bit supersaw detuned slightly. Lfo attached to modwheel routed to filter cutoff. Double the speed of the 16 note arp. Some pitch bend.
> 
> I'll give it a shot and see if I'm right and post the results.
> 
> I too am interested in this.


Definitely looking forward to the results, I was able to get a similar sound in Zebra but that arp is a nightmare


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Saw wave. Kind of a bit supersaw detuned slightly. Lfo attached to modwheel routed to filter cutoff. Double the speed of the 16 note arp. Some pitch bend.
> 
> I'll give it a shot and see if I'm right and post the results.
> 
> I too am interested in this.


+ Slow port on a monophonic instrument

View attachment 2021-06-23 18-01-57.mp4


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> + Slow port on a monophonic instrument
> 
> View attachment 2021-06-23 18-01-57.mp4


So it’s not an arp then?


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## Kuusniemi (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> I’m attempting it now and I just can’t figure out how to program a complex rhythm like that in the arpeggiator of Omni or Zebra, they don’t seem to allow you to use triplets or dotted notes along with regular note values in the same sequence




Use the Step dividers. The arpeggiator in Omnisphere is very powerful and there is rhythmically nothing you can't do in there.


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

Kuusniemi said:


> Use the Step dividers. The arpeggiator in Omnisphere is very powerful and there is rhythmically nothing you can do in there.



Sweet I was totally unaware of this, thanks!!


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

Here's what I was able to come up with in ZebraHZ using MSEGS, unfortunately I ran out of points to use so I can't program a more complex rhythm I really wish Zebra had unlimited MSEGS points to use


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Here's what I was able to come up with in ZebraHZ using MSEGS, unfortunately I ran out of points to use so I can't program a more complex rhythm I really wish Zebra had unlimited MSEGS points to use


so what I did was use a CC on the LFO to change the rate (quantized to project), rather than setting up an arp. That way you can really create the rhythms exactly how you want rather than being locked into an arp. 


View attachment 2021-06-23 18-39-42.mp4


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## Mr Greg G (Jun 23, 2021)

There are videos floating around on YouTube of people recreating this exact synth pattern. One of them was using Serum I think and it sounded pretty close.


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> I’m attempting it now and I just can’t figure out how to program a complex rhythm like that in the arpeggiator of Omni or Zebra, they don’t seem to allow you to use triplets or dotted notes along with regular note values in the same sequence


Dude I'm excited. I made some real progress on this after my first initial attempt a few months ago. 

As far as the arp, I found that you need one that can subdivide. Reason has a drum sequencer than can subdivide. I used Obsession as the synth. Then modulated the filter amount after setting the filter envelope and the filter amount to get the basic pluck sound. Used some delay and some pitch bend to get that smearing sliding sound.

What do you think?


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> so what I did was use a CC on the LFO to change the rate (quantized to project), rather than setting up an arp. That way you can really create the rhythms exactly how you want rather than being locked into an arp.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2021-06-23 18-39-42.mp4


That makes a lot more sense, that way you can program the automation to have a much longer pattern than the standard 16 bars that most synths give, I’ll make sure to remember that.


Mr Pringles said:


> There are videos floating around on YouTube of people recreating this exact synth pattern. One of them was using Serum I think and it sounded pretty close.


I watched all the videos on YouTube about it and most of them were pretty good and had something I could take away from, I just wanted an in depth breakdown on how to do it with the soft synths I personally own, I still have no idea what synth Ludwig used for it


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Dude I'm excited. I made some real progress on this after my first initial attempt a few months ago.
> 
> As far as the arp, I found that you need one that can subdivide. Reason has a drum sequencer than can subdivide. I used Obsession as the synth. Then modulated the filter amount after setting the filter envelope and the filter amount to get the basic pluck sound. Used some delay and some pitch bend to get that smearing sliding sound.
> 
> What do you think?


Sounds great!! Do you have if Hive can subdivide? I just tried it in Omni like @Kuusniemi said and it definitely sounded pretty close, wish Zebra could do that…


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Sounds great!! Do you have if Hive can subdivide? I just tried it in Omni like @Kuusniemi said and it definitely sounded pretty close, wish Zebra could do that…


Not sure. I don't have Hive. I tried to think in terms of hardware so used a dedicated outside virtual cv sequencer from my Reason Rack. I'm sure Hive can do it though. 

I'm pretty sure Zebra can do it too. You'd have to change the little sequencer note in Zebra to a 32 note to get that rapid flam sound.

I got to go to bed but I will try it with Zebra in the morning see if I have any luck.


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Not sure. I don't have Hive. I tried to think in terms of hardware so used a dedicated outside virtual cv sequencer from my Reason Rack. I'm sure Hive can do it though.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Zebra can do it too. You'd have to change the little sequencer note in Zebra to a 32 note to get that rapid flam sound.
> 
> I got to go to bed but I will try it with Zebra in the morning see if I have any luck.


Alright great thanks! I was having a lot of trouble with Zebra’s arpeggiator, since it only allows you to make notes slower once you’ve chosen the value (as far as I’m aware) I tried to set it to 32nd notes and use that for the bursts and then make all the others half length but it just didn’t sound right to me, if you can get something more accurate definitely let me know how


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## Kuusniemi (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Sounds great!! Do you have if Hive can subdivide? I just tried it in Omni like @Kuusniemi said and it definitely sounded pretty close, wish Zebra could do that…


This is in no particular way connected to the Tenet sounds, just wanted to show some of rhythmic synth you could create with Omnisphere. The beginning of the video shows the Arps I created for my sound set "Omnidose" (which is a D-50 reimagining) and there's quite a bit of rhythmic play:


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

Kuusniemi said:


> This is in no particular way connected to the Tenet sounds, just wanted to show some of rhythmic synth you could create with Omnisphere. The beginning of the video shows the Arps I created for my sound set "Omnidose" (which is a D-50 reimagining) and there's quite a bit of rhythmic play:



That first patch sounds awesome!! Almost sounds glitchy when the filter opens up, Omni really has so much capabilities I still don’t even know exist


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## Kuusniemi (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> That first patch sounds awesome!! Almost sounds glitchy when the filter opens up, Omni really has so much capabilities I still don’t even know exist


Omnisphere is really powerful when you starts to delve into it. People tend to think it's just a preset rompler. :D


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## Manaberry (Jun 23, 2021)

I've created a patch on u-he repro-1 a few months ago, based on Ludwig's work. Fairly easy to achieve.
Once you have the correct settings with ADSR and the base filter, you just have to play with the pitch wheel and the clock knob (with a controller of course).


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

Manaberry said:


> I've created a patch on u-he repro-1 a few months ago, based on Ludwig's work. Fairly easy to achieve.
> Once you have the correct settings with ADSR and the base filter, you just have to play with the pitch wheel and the clock knob (with a controller of course).


Can you post a clip of that patch? Would love to hear it!


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## Manaberry (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Can you post a clip of that patch? Would love to hear it!


I'm currently changing my setup (both machine and OS) so I won't be able to provide anything until next week. I will share something as soon as I have everything operational!


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## tomosane (Jun 23, 2021)

Listening to the saw arp/rhythm in the first video, I think the "function generators" in Hive could be good for a sound like that, or maybe even just the step sequencer with proper modulation on its speed(?)


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## AdamKmusic (Jun 23, 2021)

If you have ZebraHZ there is a patch called flamcomb or something which sounds really similar. Just set it to arp & change it slightly.

I did a whole album & some extra tracks heavily inspired by Tenet! Made this patch with my moog grandmother, which should be easily ported to zebra / diva etc


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

Manaberry said:


> I'm currently changing my setup (both machine and OS) so I won't be able to provide anything until next week. I will share something as soon as I have everything operational!


Awesome thank you, I’ll be on the lookout for that


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

AdamKmusic said:


> If you have ZebraHZ there is a patch called flamcomb or something which sounds really similar. Just set it to arp & change it slightly.
> 
> I did a whole album & some extra tracks heavily inspired by Tenet! Made this patch with my moog grandmother, which should be easily ported to zebra / diva etc


Sounds sick!! Send those tracks my way, would love to hear them and talk to you about them


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## Manaberry (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Awesome thank you, I’ll be on the lookout for that


Managed to record my old stories from Instagram but the volume is really low, sorry.
(You can check it in the Studio Time highlights at the very end, to get a better volume level).

That was a quick Sunday doodle. With proper editing on a midi track, you can get a surgical result with the clock parameter.


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## AdamKmusic (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Sounds sick!! Send those tracks my way, would love to hear them and talk to you about them


They’re not released yet so can’t send any tracks but here’s another little tease! When I’m at my PC I’ll let you know about the patches!


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## Jonathan Moray (Jun 23, 2021)

Why use an (inbuilt)arp at all? I personally often feel a bit too confined when using the built-in arp in synths if I want to create more complex pattern. Especially when I need more than a couple of bars of pattern, or want a pattern that changes a lot.

This very quick example I made is really simple but could be expanded however you want.


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## LudovicVDP (Jun 23, 2021)

During the time I'm regularly losing on Youtube, I've see an ad a few times lately for an arpeggio/trancegate/Synth VST and the trailer for it was a total rip off of TENET soundtrack. 
Damn, I can't remember the name right now... If it comes back I'll chime in again.


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## D Halgren (Jun 23, 2021)

I think it's Hive's shape sequencer controlling a filter.

https://youtu.be/F7AcV_ql26o


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## Dr.Quest (Jun 23, 2021)

This arp has some Tenet like stuff going on in one of the demo/trailers. Seems pretty powerful.








Animation Station


Sample Logic is proud to debut their first plugin – ANIMATION STATION – the next step in assisted music creation. With its intelligent “Step Animator” engine, creating powerful MIDI arpeggiation patterns and step sequences has never been easier.




www.samplelogic.com


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## LudovicVDP (Jun 23, 2021)

Dr.Quest said:


> This arp has some Tenet like stuff going on in one of the demo/trailers. Seems pretty powerful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the one I was talking about. 
For the first time ever I was like "Damn, I want to see that ad again on Youtube".
You were faster than the Google ad algorithm


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## el-bo (Jun 23, 2021)

LudovicVDP said:


> For the first time ever I was like "Damn, I want to see that ad again on Youtube".


Definitely beats the many ads for MIDI chord pads


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## el-bo (Jun 23, 2021)

Jonathan Moray said:


> Why use an (inbuilt)arp at all? I personally often feel a bit too confined when using the built-in arp in synths if I want to create more complex pattern. Especially when I need more than a couple of bars of pattern, or want a pattern that changes a lot.
> 
> This very quick example I made is really simple but could be expanded however you want.


Arps are good for generating inspiration when you have none. But this seems a much better idea for when one knows exactly what the desired pattern and sound should be. I guess the downside bing that it doesn't automatically follow the chords of the piece.

What do you have in your automation lanes?

Many thanks


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## LudovicVDP (Jun 23, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Definitely beats the many ads for MIDI chord pads


It was just so I could reply to this post.
I still hate all those ad... Even this one  
But I might hate this one a bit less than the midi chords packs indeed


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## Jonathan Moray (Jun 23, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Arps are good for generating inspiration when you have none. But this seems a much better idea for when one knows exactly what the desired pattern and sound should be. I guess the downside bing that it doesn't automatically follow the chords of the piece.
> 
> What do you have in your automation lanes?
> 
> Many thanks


It's rather simple really.

VEL = ENV Filter (How much the filter opens depends on high or low velocity)
CC1 = ENV Decay (A very plucky/percussive sound or a longer/more drawn out)
CC2 = General Filter (Depending on what type of sound I want, I would have done this differently)
PITCH = Well, pitch.

Some of these CCs are also a bit transverse where they control multiple functions, but each CC has a main function as stated above.


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## el-bo (Jun 23, 2021)

Jonathan Moray said:


> It's rather simple really.
> 
> VEL = ENV Filter (How much the filter opens depends on high or low velocity)
> CC1 = ENV Decay (A very plucky/percussive sound or a longer/more drawn out)
> ...


Excellent info! Many thanks


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## lux (Jun 23, 2021)

that arpeggio always sounded to me like sorta Trap Hi-Hats pattern converted to melodic.


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## Jonathan Moray (Jun 23, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Excellent info! Many thanks


It's the usual way I do it for more simple synths, but it has _a lot_ of potentials and can be adapted to fit many different scenarios.

For example, here's a quick Tom like synth that is similar to what I usually layer with more traditional percussion - or as its own percussive element depending on context. It can also be perfectly tuned to whatever note you want and play high and low or anywhere in between.

With this setup, I can control how hard the "tom" is struck (VEL) and how much decay the tom has (CC1). Then I just automate these to give it a bit more life instead of the static, too-perfect sound that often accompanies synths.


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## el-bo (Jun 23, 2021)

Jonathan Moray said:


> It's the usual way I do it for more simple synths, but it has _a lot_ of potentials and can be adapted to fit many different scenarios.
> 
> For example, here's a quick Tom like synth that is similar to what I usually layer with more traditional percussion - or as its own percussive element depending on context. It can also be perfectly tuned to whatever note you want and play high and low or anywhere in between.
> 
> With this setup, I can control how hard the "tom" is struck (VEL) and how much decay the tom has (CC1). Then I just automate these to give it a bit more life instead of the static, too-perfect sound that often accompanies synths.


Simple, but very effective! Thanks again, for the ideas


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## Pier (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Here's what I was able to come up with in ZebraHZ using MSEGS, unfortunately I ran out of points to use so I can't program a more complex rhythm I really wish Zebra had unlimited MSEGS points to use


This is how I would have done it.

Actually my upcoming Zebra library uses a LOT of these types of patterns with MSEGs.


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## classified_the_x (Jun 23, 2021)

I think you might be able to get similar sounds way easier with a Roland SE-02 or DSI Prophet 06.. also similar to Stranger Things.

I don't know if Ludwig used hardware synths, maybe modulars? But sounds similar to those 2, specially P06


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## Bansaw (Jun 23, 2021)

I can do these rhythmic patterns in VPS Avenger synth (you could do it in Omnisphere too) with the step sequencer (Trancegate):
e.g.


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Alright great thanks! I was having a lot of trouble with Zebra’s arpeggiator, since it only allows you to make notes slower once you’ve chosen the value (as far as I’m aware) I tried to set it to 32nd notes and use that for the bursts and then make all the others half length but it just didn’t sound right to me, if you can get something more accurate definitely let me know how


Did a version with ZebraHZ. It can certainly handle the synth line. It's a little bit harder on this synth which is why I probably don't reach for it often. Also, it was just a bit harder to dial in the right filters, settings, ect... But with a little more work it can do the Tenet synth for sure. 

The trick with the Arp is you need to set the sync to the minimum value you need. In this case it's 32nd notes. Then you put that little note in the Arp to 1/8 notes (which sounds like 16th because of the synch) and then the 16th note at the end for the burst which will come out as 32nd notes because that's the sync value and 16th's is a low as you can go in the Arp. It's a little weird but not too bad. 

ZebraHZ is a beast though. I need to get at it a bit more than I do. It's a cool synth.


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## DUBFRED (Jun 23, 2021)

Jonathan Moray said:


> Why use an (inbuilt)arp at all? I personally often feel a bit too confined when using the built-in arp in synths if I want to create more complex pattern. Especially when I need more than a couple of bars of pattern, or want a pattern that changes a lot.
> 
> This very quick example I made is really simple but could be expanded however you want.



You're a purist! Love that!  I was doing a similar thing and automating the note value on a delay plugin to make the 32/16th stutter more unpredictable, and get the delay internal hp/lp filter involved as well to make it more interesting without having to rely just on the cutoff filter in the synth.


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## babylonwaves (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Did a version with ZebraHZ.


well done. I think it's actually two sound source. A lower "thump" and soothing that sits on top. they both have different amounts to drive/distortion to it.


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

AdamKmusic said:


> They’re not released yet so can’t send any tracks but here’s another little tease! When I’m at my PC I’ll let you know about the patches!


That sounds awesome I’m definitely looking forward to hear the full thing!! Also really excited to talk about those synth patches as well


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## pkm (Jun 23, 2021)

lux said:


> that arpeggio always sounded to me like sorta Trap Hi-Hats pattern converted to melodic.


Yeah it sounds more Note Repeat than Arpeggiator to me. I don’t know how Ludwig approached it but with his background, this would be my bet.


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

Jonathan Moray said:


> Why use an (inbuilt)arp at all? I personally often feel a bit too confined when using the built-in arp in synths if I want to create more complex pattern. Especially when I need more than a couple of bars of pattern, or want a pattern that changes a lot.
> 
> This very quick example I made is really simple but could be expanded however you want.


Sounds awesome!! The main reason I use a built in arp is because I’ve had trouble in the past getting programmed midi to behave the same as a built in arp with the way it interacts with the patch, but yours sounds awesome so I’m going to fool around with it again as I do want longer drawn out rhythms


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

LudovicVDP said:


> During the time I'm regularly losing on Youtube, I've see an ad a few times lately for an arpeggio/trancegate/Synth VST and the trailer for it was a total rip off of TENET soundtrack.
> Damn, I can't remember the name right now... If it comes back I'll chime in again.





Dr.Quest said:


> This arp has some Tenet like stuff going on in one of the demo/trailers. Seems pretty powerful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





LudovicVDP said:


> That's the one I was talking about.
> For the first time ever I was like "Damn, I want to see that ad again on Youtube".
> You were faster than the Google ad algorithm


I did see a post about this product her on VI and my immediate thought was “Can it do TENET rhythms?” But I couldn’t tell if it was an effect plugin or a separate instrument so I didn’t look much into it, if I could use it as an arpeggiator for Zebra or Hive or something I’ll definitely have to get it!!


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

lux said:


> that arpeggio always sounded to me like sorta Trap Hi-Hats pattern converted to melodic.


That’s exactly what it is actually, don’t forget Ludwig is Childish Gambino’s producer, so he’s well versed in Hip-Hop drum production and he uses them on all of his scores, including TENET, this synth patch is basically a just taking a classic Trap hat rhythm and making a synth play it instead which is why it’s so cool and intriguing to me!


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

D Halgren said:


> I think it's Hive's shape sequencer controlling a filter.
> 
> https://youtu.be/F7AcV_ql26o


Hive is definitely next on my list of things to get!!


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

Pier said:


> This is how I would have done it.
> 
> Actually my upcoming Zebra library uses a LOT of these types of patterns with MSEGs.


Keep me posted on that!! Hopefully one day we’ll get a Zebra update with unlimited MSEGS, hell at least give us double that’s available now…


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Did a version with ZebraHZ. It can certainly handle the synth line. It's a little bit harder on this synth which is why I probably don't reach for it often. Also, it was just a bit harder to dial in the right filters, settings, ect... But with a little more work it can do the Tenet synth for sure.
> 
> The trick with the Arp is you need to set the sync to the minimum value you need. In this case it's 32nd notes. Then you put that little note in the Arp to 1/8 notes (which sounds like 16th because of the synch) and then the 16th note at the end for the burst which will come out as 32nd notes because that's the sync value and 16th's is a low as you can go in the Arp. It's a little weird but not too bad.
> 
> ZebraHZ is a beast though. I need to get at it a bit more than I do. It's a cool synth.


Sounds awesome!! Would you mind sending me the patch? Or at least taking a pic of the arp settings for me? Would really appreciate it!!


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

classified_the_x said:


> I think you might be able to get similar sounds way easier with a Roland SE-02 or DSI Prophet 06.. also similar to Stranger Things.
> 
> I don't know if Ludwig used hardware synths, maybe modulars? But sounds similar to those 2, specially P06


He does use modular!!


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## Pier (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Keep me posted on that!! Hopefully one day we’ll get a Zebra update with unlimited MSEGS, hell at least give us double that’s available now…


Zebra 3 will save us all!


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## lux (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> That’s exactly what it is actually, don’t forget Ludwig is Childish Gambino’s producer, so he’s well versed in Hip-Hop drum production and he uses them on all of his scores, including TENET, this synth patch is basically a just taking a classic Trap hat rhythm and making a synth play it instead which is why it’s so cool and intriguing to me!


it may sound crazy but my impression is that it may be some vocoder-like effect with a trap hihats sequence as a carrier and with melodies and/or harmonies triggered by midi. Many vocoders have also portamento which may explain what we hear. Also it may explain why it has definitely an unique sound.


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

Pier said:


> Zebra 3 will save us all!


I’ll be dead before I actually see Zebra 3 lol


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## lux (Jun 23, 2021)

Sorry fot the most stupid example ever but I had only 3 minutes to create this on the fly using the free Tal Vocoder and a trap hihats sequence. I know it doesn't sound even close to the original sound but the behaviour somehow recalls me of it.

View attachment example(2).mp3


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## Pier (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> I’ll be dead before I actually see Zebra 3 lol


LOL I have some KVR posts from 2010 discussing Zebra 3 with Urs. He told me it was coming probably around 2014.

But I do think it will be finally released in 2022.


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Sounds awesome!! Would you mind sending me the patch? Or at least taking a pic of the arp settings for me? Would really appreciate it!!


If I could figure out where Zebra keeps it's presets then I would send you the patch. But, I also think it's important that you pick it out by ear as well. You may never nail that exact sound but getting close you will learn a lot. I know I did.

Here's a screenshot.


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## Dr.Quest (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Did a version with ZebraHZ. It can certainly handle the synth line. It's a little bit harder on this synth which is why I probably don't reach for it often. Also, it was just a bit harder to dial in the right filters, settings, ect... But with a little more work it can do the Tenet synth for sure.
> 
> The trick with the Arp is you need to set the sync to the minimum value you need. In this case it's 32nd notes. Then you put that little note in the Arp to 1/8 notes (which sounds like 16th because of the synch) and then the 16th note at the end for the burst which will come out as 32nd notes because that's the sync value and 16th's is a low as you can go in the Arp. It's a little weird but not too bad.
> 
> ZebraHZ is a beast though. I need to get at it a bit more than I do. It's a cool synth.


Great job, Jose´!


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> If I could figure out where Zebra keeps it's presets then I would send you the patch. But, I also think it's important that you pick it out by ear as well. You may never nail that exact sound but getting close you will learn a lot. I know I did.
> 
> Here's a screenshot.


Thank you!! If you’ve ever bought any sound banks or anything then your user presets would be in a folder right next to those and the factory presets, I know exactly where it’s at on Mac but I’m not sure where it’d be located on PC.


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Thank you!! If you’ve ever bought any sound banks or anything then your user presets would be in a folder right next to those and the factory presets, I know exactly where it’s at on Mac but I’m not sure where it’d be located on PC.


Cool. I'll look for it. I don't use ZebraHZ enough so this has been a great experience. 

Here's another version with some additional parts. Not following the score exactly but getting the feel of the thinking behind it. 

I actually think the score is brave and brilliant. Not sure why it got some negative buzz. Wolfgang didn't play it safe and in this case I think it paid off.


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Cool. I'll look for it. I don't use ZebraHZ enough so this has been a great experience.
> 
> Here's another version with some additional parts. Not following the score exactly but getting the feel of the thinking behind it.
> 
> I actually think the score is brave and brilliant. Not sure why it got some negative buzz. Wolfgang didn't play it safe and in this case I think it paid off.


Wolfgang lol

But yeah it’s an awesome score!! Throw some 808s in there and you’re set!!


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## lux (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Cool. I'll look for it. I don't use ZebraHZ enough so this has been a great experience.
> 
> Here's another version with some additional parts. Not following the score exactly but getting the feel of the thinking behind it.
> 
> I actually think the score is brave and brilliant. Not sure why it got some negative buzz. Wolfgang didn't play it safe and in this case I think it paid off.


this sounds great


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## Wunderhorn (Jun 23, 2021)

I could imagine that sound-wise the Knifonium (Plugin Alliance) could be a good contender to do some Göransson-esque sounds.


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## ed buller (Jun 23, 2021)

This is relatively easy to do in Zebra. You must get good with the MSEG...THEY ARE THE KEY!

best

ed


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## jcrosby (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I actually think the score is brave and brilliant. Not sure why it got some negative buzz. Wolfgang didn't play it safe and in this case I think it paid off.


100% agree. The reality is he was hired to fulfill the vision of the film, not write music other composers could high five him about... I think it's a badass score, not to mention that it fits the film incredibly well.


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2021)

KEM said:


> Wolfgang lol
> 
> But yeah it’s an awesome score!! Throw some 808s in there and you’re set!!


Oops. I mean Ludwig.


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

ed buller said:


> This is relatively easy to do in Zebra. You must get good with the MSEG...THEY ARE THE KEY!
> 
> best
> 
> ed


I got pretty close but I ran out of MSEG points to use, we need an update with unlimited MSEG points!!


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## KEM (Jun 23, 2021)

Wunderhorn said:


> I could imagine that sound-wise the Knifonium (Plugin Alliance) could be a good contender to do some Göransson-esque sounds.


I watched a few videos on it recently and it sounds so good, super brutal, I’ll pick it up eventually


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## José Herring (Jun 23, 2021)

Wunderhorn said:


> I could imagine that sound-wise the Knifonium (Plugin Alliance) could be a good contender to do some Göransson-esque sounds.





KEM said:


> I watched a few videos on it recently and it sounds so good, super brutal, I’ll pick it up eventually


It's a great synth and I used it for the additional parts in my latest example. And I just used the presets in the bass folder. It could have done the lead line really well. It's already crackly by default. I love that synth. I'm determined to get my synths down to the 5 synths that I actually use. So far I've only picked out 3 and Knifonium made it to the top 3. Now I just need to pick two more.


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## AdamKmusic (Jun 23, 2021)

José Herring said:


> If I could figure out where Zebra keeps it's presets then I would send you the patch. But, I also think it's important that you pick it out by ear as well. You may never nail that exact sound but getting close you will learn a lot. I know I did.
> 
> Here's a screenshot.


Right click a patch & click view in explorer / folder & it will take you to where the patches are saved


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## José Herring (Jun 24, 2021)

AdamKmusic said:


> Right click a patch & click view in explorer / folder & it will take you to where the patches are saved


Thanks. I found it was right on my Library drive. Right where I put the UHE folder when I installed it a couple of weeks ago. 


KEM said:


> Sounds awesome!! Would you mind sending me the patch? Or at least taking a pic of the arp settings for me? Would really appreciate it!!


Modwheel controls the brightness by modulating the filter envelope amount.


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## InLight-Tone (Jun 24, 2021)

KEM said:


> He does use modular!!


I think a DEEP dive in Reaktor is in order...


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## stixman (Jun 24, 2021)

In isolation it doesn’t work for me...I only listened to the first vid posted audio only ...I haven’t seen the film...sounds like an Euclidean sequencer to me...this easily done tbh...hardware check out Torso Electronics T1...I haven’t delved very deep with it so far as busy but it I think these rhythms will be commonplace quite soon.


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## SupremeFist (Jun 24, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I'm determined to get my synths down to the 5 synths that I actually use. So far I've only picked out 3 and Knifonium made it to the top 3. Now I just need to pick two more.


I need to do the same! Diva, bx_oberhausen, and Alchemy for sure but then... I need to have a deeper look at Knifonium since you rate it so much. (Love all these variations on the arp sound — seems like Logic's step sequencer might be useful here but I haven't had time to try it yet.)


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## doctoremmet (Jun 24, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I need to do the same! Diva, bx_oberhausen, and Alchemy for sure but then... I need to have a deeper look at Knifonium since you rate it so much. (Love all these variations on the arp sound — seems like Logic's step sequencer might be useful here but I haven't had time to try it yet.)


Knifonium is a beauty. Absolutely NO aspirations here to slim down my synth collection to a mere 5, but as a Gedankenexperiment here’s my (current) list:

1. MSoundFactory
2. f.’em
3. Equator 2
4. Falcon 2
5. Hive 2 / Pigments 3 / Generate / Cypher 2 / Bazille battle for fifth place

And modular stuff excluded


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## KEM (Jun 24, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Thanks. I found it was right on my Library drive. Right where I put the UHE folder when I installed it a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> Modwheel controls the brightness by modulating the filter envelope.


Thank you very much!! I downloaded it and made a few tweaks to it, first I switched it from arp to retrigger and then wrote out my own midi sequence that was longer than what the stock Zebra arp allows, then I added a huge reverb after the delay to give it the ambience that the original has, and finally I added just a little bit of OTT to glue it together and make it sound really huge, here's what I was able to get from it


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## José Herring (Jun 24, 2021)

KEM said:


> Thank you very much!! I downloaded it and made a few tweaks to it, first I switched it from arp to retrigger and then wrote out my own midi sequence that was longer than what the stock Zebra arp allows, then I added a huge reverb after the delay to give it the ambience that the original has, and finally I added just a little bit of OTT to glue it together and make it sound really huge, here's what I was able to get from it


Love it. 

I love OTT. The only reason why I sometimes like using the apr's and cv sequencers is because for some reason it sounds a little tighter to me than midi. But, I've also been know to psych myself out over trivial issues that in the end when I step away realize it didn't make any difference.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 24, 2021)

José Herring said:


> realize it didn't make any difference.


Been there. But doing stuff like that IS extremely gratifying isn’t it.


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## gsilbers (Jun 24, 2021)

maybe this will help


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## KEM (Jun 24, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> maybe this will help



Oh believe me, I have this video and the other Rolling Stones one he did permanently opened on my computer so I can watch them at any moment lol


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## gsilbers (Jun 24, 2021)

As how to make those inside a computer i woudl venture to say max for live has tons of those types of sequencers that go for that sound, and from what i can gather seems to be one sequencer for pitch and another sequecner for the timing of the first sequencer. 
or one of those sequencer that each step can vary its timing. 

i could be wrong and even sound wierd but devastator and some other keep forest instruments have a sequencer where you can subdivide each step sequence. Plus also a filter sequencer to affect the overall sound and maybe get something simialr? 
im not sure if its outside percussion.


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## Mike Fox (Jun 25, 2021)

KEM said:


> How would you go about creating these complex rhythms and arps on virtual synths? I have ZebraHZ, Diva, and Omnisphere and I’d love to try and recreate this patch (and the “dark” version in the second track) or something like it but when I tried in Zebra I couldn’t figure out how to get the same arp pattern, didn’t even seem like it was possible in Zebra, anyone have any ideas? I want to delve deep into synthesis and get better at it and the synths in TENET are the pinnacle for me so that’s what I want to learn how to replicate



Sounds like they were listening to too much Meshuggah.


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## Mr Greg G (Jun 25, 2021)

Yeah it sounds a bit like it, but the pattern is WAY easier than in the one in Bleed


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## KEM (Jun 25, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> Sounds like they were listening to too much Meshuggah.



Ludwig is a Swede and has said many many times that he’s a massive Meshuggah fan, and if you watch his Rolling Stones breakdown videos for TENET he even talks about how he used the Ibanez Stoneman for the film and he picks it up to play one of the riffs on it!!


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## Dan Light (Jun 26, 2021)

Try using Hive. Ludwig used it on Tenet. The shape sequencer makes patterns like this super easy.


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## KEM (Jun 26, 2021)

Dan Light said:


> Try using Hive. Ludwig used it on Tenet. The shape sequencer makes patterns like this super easy.


Yeah I saw him using it on the behind the scenes video, I don't currently have it but that's next on my list of things to buy!!


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## boinzy (Jun 26, 2021)

Have you seen this video? Different tracks than what you listed in the OP, but maybe some clues here just the same:


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## KEM (Jun 26, 2021)

boinzy said:


> Have you seen this video? Different tracks than what you listed in the OP, but maybe some clues here just the same:



Definitely!! Trust me I’ve watched every video about TENET lol, main reason I made this thread is because there are some real synth wizards on here so I knew I could get a much more detailed description on how to make synths like that and the guys here are nice enough to share their patches with me as well!!


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## gsilbers (Jun 26, 2021)

ultimate sounds genesis 2 soundest for prophet rev2 has it.









DSI PROPHET Rev2 / GENESIS SOUNDBANK / PATCHES / PRSETS


Sequential PROPHET Rev2




www.ultimatexsounds.com





just in case you said no modular but expensive hardware synth


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## Soundbed (Jun 26, 2021)

I’m late to this thread but anyone looking for a 2 minute video on tuplets in Omnisphere — I’ve got this older video of mine (before Tenet) queued up to the relevant mouse clicks.


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## KEM (Jun 26, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> ultimate sounds genesis 2 soundest for prophet rev2 has it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds pretty good! Not that I'd ever get a hardware synth, but it definitely sounds accurate!!


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## KEM (Jun 27, 2021)

Currently working on my own TENET track based on the tweaked version of the patch @José Herring made, I think it sounds pretty cool so far, it’s almost done so I’ll be posting it soon


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## KEM (Jul 16, 2021)

Here's the track!!


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## José Herring (Jul 16, 2021)

KEM said:


> Here's the track!!



Can't believe more people haven't commented on this. This really is an incredible job.


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## el-bo (Jul 17, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Can't believe more people haven't commented on this. This really is an incredible job.


I'm not at all familiar with the source of inspiration, but enjoyed the track nevertheless


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## doctoremmet (Jul 17, 2021)

Still haven’t watched the film. Did enjoy the soundtrack. And @KEM: awesome job! ❤️


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## KEM (Jul 17, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Can't believe more people haven't commented on this. This really is an incredible job.





doctoremmet said:


> Still haven’t watched the film. Did enjoy the soundtrack. And @KEM: awesome job! ❤️


Really appreciate the kind words guys, thank you!!


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## el-bo (Jul 17, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Still haven’t watched the film. Did enjoy the soundtrack. And @KEM: awesome job! ❤️


Yeah! Likewise, still not seem the film. Decided to avoid the soundtrack so I could experience them fresh, at the same time. Will likely be some time.


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## KEM (Jul 17, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Yeah! Likewise, still not seem the film. Decided to avoid the soundtrack so I could experience them fresh, at the same time. Will likely be some time.


I think you should watch it ASAP!!


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## el-bo (Jul 18, 2021)

KEM said:


> I think you should watch it ASAP!!


Not in the right frame-of-mind to appreciate it right at this moment, but it's definitely on a list


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## el-bo (Jul 18, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Not in the right frame-of-mind to appreciate it right at this moment, but it's definitely on a list


Actually, I just looked for it but it doesn't seem to be streaming outside of the U.S.


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## rhizomusicosmos (Jul 19, 2021)

This reminds me of the drums-and-vocoder effect Carl Palmer got on a Mike Oldfield track back in '82:


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## Ahmad Ali (Aug 14, 2021)

I tried to recreate this sound in Massive a while ago, but it was apparent to me that it would be much easier to just do it in the piano roll. That way you can have full control over the notes. 

This was my attempt. Haven't figured out the rest of the elements of "Freeport" so I just abandoned the project.


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## KEM (Aug 14, 2021)

Ahmad Ali said:


> I tried to recreate this sound in Massive a while ago, but it was apparent to me that it would be much easier to just do it in the piano roll. That way you can have full control over the notes.
> 
> This was my attempt. Haven't figured out the rest of the elements of "Freeport" so I just abandoned the project.



I say go for it!! I had a ton of fun recreating it, of course I did my own interpretation of it but I tried to stay faithful to the original and I had a great time making it


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## gamma-ut (Aug 14, 2021)

I don't think anyone's mentioned it, but the grandparent of that effect is the Tangerine Dream/Berlin School analogue-sequencer ratchet (eg Diamond Diary in the Thief soundtrack), where a control signal divides the pulses feeding a synth: https://learningmodular.com/patching-a-ratcheting-sequence/

The advantage of doing it the modular way is that the player can have control over when the ratchet pops, using an external control instead of just relying on an LFO: just dial in the points where you want the ratchet. You can do it in Reason's rack by toggling between two step sequencers: https://www.reasonexperts.com/ratchet-sequencer.html


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## doctoremmet (Aug 14, 2021)

Cool! Off to Voltage Modular to make this. Thanks @gamma-ut - it is the sharing of this kind of knowledge that makes this forum great ❤️


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## José Herring (Aug 14, 2021)

Ahmad Ali said:


> I tried to recreate this sound in Massive a while ago, but it was apparent to me that it would be much easier to just do it in the piano roll. That way you can have full control over the notes.
> 
> This was my attempt. Haven't figured out the rest of the elements of "Freeport" so I just abandoned the project.


You just needed to put a short delay on the patch and modulate the filter cutoff with the modwheel and you would have had it.


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## KEM (Aug 15, 2021)

From 12:26-13:18 he plays the main TENET arp that’s used all throughout the film (also my favorite synth patch/motif of all time), but he doesn’t say anything he used to create it, but he does show the patch filtered and unfiltered for those who are interested in hearing the patch by itself


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## KEM (Aug 15, 2021)

Here's my best attempt at recreating it in ZebraHZ (with a lot of post-processing effects), if only I could talk to Ludwig... first thing I'd ask him would be to show me this patch in detail, I'd do anything to get this patch!!


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## José Herring (Aug 15, 2021)

KEM said:


> Here's my best attempt at recreating it in ZebraHZ (with a lot of post-processing effects), if only I could talk to Ludwig... first thing I'd ask him would be to show me this patch in detail, I'd do anything to get this patch!!


Watch this guys video until the end.


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## KEM (Aug 15, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Watch this guys video until the end.




I have!! I’m friends with Jon on Facebook, I tried to take as much as I could from his video while making any adjustments I thought worked better for me, you can see me in the comments as well lol


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## Ahmad Ali (Aug 16, 2021)

José Herring said:


> You just needed to put a short delay on the patch and modulate the filter cutoff with the modwheel and you would have and it.


Yup. That was a very primitive version I printed before I did any additional work.

@KEM

I ended up going back to the session and it was fun indeed. Here's an updated version. Not 100% happy with the mix though.

Also, ditto on that RNIT arp. I ended up using a random old Massive patch I made long time ago that seem to have a certain quality I liked.


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## José Herring (Aug 16, 2021)

KEM said:


> if only I could talk to Ludwig... first thing I'd ask him would be to show me this patch in detail, I'd do anything to get this patch!!



Have you tried calling him or messaging him on social media? You'd be surprised how accessible people are if you approach them in a kind way with a sincere question about their work.


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## Markrs (Aug 16, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Have you tried calling him or messaging him on social media? You'd be surprised how accessible people are if you approach them in a kind way with a sincere question about their work.


Completely agree, Hans has replied many times on here about a particular cue or sound, so there is a chance that Ludwig might reply and explain how he created the sound.


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## KEM (Aug 16, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Have you tried calling him or messaging him on social media? You'd be surprised how accessible people are if you approach them in a kind way with a sincere question about their work.





Markrs said:


> Completely agree, Hans has replied many times on here about a particular cue or sound, so there is a chance that Ludwig might reply and explain how he created the sound.



True, whenever I messaged Hans on here I didn't even expect a response at all but he actually got back to me within 10 minutes, so I really don't have anything to lose, and anything can happen. But that being said I feel like a serf walking into the kings castle lol


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## Markrs (Aug 16, 2021)

KEM said:


> But that being said I feel like a serf walking into the kinds castle lol


I think we all feel like around the film and TV composers. In fairness I feel like that when talking to all the experience people in this forum 🙂


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## KEM (Aug 16, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I think we all feel like around the film and TV composers. In fairness I feel like that when talking to all the experience people in this forum 🙂



Yeah same, anytime I put in my two cents on here I make sure to put a disclaimer that I’m just a stupid kid with a computer haha


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## KEM (Aug 23, 2021)

I just had an idea… maybe we should ALL message Ludwig, I mean, he has to see at least one of our messages right?!


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## georgewmusic (Mar 14, 2022)

I realise I'm very late to this thread but was just listening to the Far Cry 4 soundtrack and was reminded of your question. The track titled "Every Road an Exit" has basically the exact same sound that Lud uses in TENET which makes me feel either its quite an easy sound to put together or there's an actual preset somewhere out there that both composers have used. Make of it what you will.


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## Pier (Mar 14, 2022)

georgewmusic said:


> I realise I'm very late to this thread but was just listening to the Far Cry 4 soundtrack and was reminded of your question. The track titled "Every Road an Exit" has basically the exact same sound that Lud uses in TENET which makes me feel either its quite an easy sound to put together or there's an actual preset somewhere out there that both composers have used. Make of it what you will.


It's not a difficult sound to make but it's uncanny how close it is to the one from Tenet.

I think @KEM actually made a version of it at some point?

I loved the FC3 and FC4 soundtracks back then. Now I need to listen to those again!


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## KEM (Mar 14, 2022)

Pier said:


> It's not a difficult sound to make but it's uncanny how close it is to the one from Tenet.
> 
> I think @KEM actually made a version of it at some point?
> 
> I loved the FC3 and FC4 soundtracks back then. Now I need to listen to those again!



Well @José Herring made the patch for me, I just recreated the pattern as close as I could using his patch and then I did the rest of the track afterwards

I’ve never heard the Far Cry scores before but that specific part is very close @georgewmusic and it sounds awesome, so if the rest of the music is at that level I’ll for sure give it a listen


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## D Halgren (Mar 14, 2022)

Ah, it's Cliff, the master! So good! @KEM Cliff is right in your wheelhouse 👍


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## KEM (Mar 14, 2022)

D Halgren said:


> Ah, it's Cliff, the master! So good! @KEM Cliff is right in your wheelhouse 👍



Didn’t know it was Cliff Martinez, he’s awesome!!


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## D Halgren (Mar 14, 2022)

KEM said:


> Didn’t know it was Cliff Martinez, he’s awesome!!


Synth master!


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## KEM (Mar 14, 2022)

D Halgren said:


> Synth master!



That’s an understatement!!


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## José Herring (Mar 14, 2022)

georgewmusic said:


> ...... makes me feel either its quite an easy sound to put together or there's an actual preset somewhere out there that both composers have used. Make of it what you will.


It took me about a decade to understand that the patches that work in film/tv/game/trailer music aren't complicated but are simple, clever and use motion to be expressive and are generally a bit darker than what is used as synth patches in other genres that use synths. That sound isn't a preset because most present designers tend to lean in the direction of more complicated sounds.


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## KEM (Mar 14, 2022)

José Herring said:


> It took me about a decade to understand that the patches that work in film/tv/game/trailer music aren't complicated but are simple, clever and use motion to be expressive and are generally a bit darker than what is used as synth patches in other genres that use synths. That sound isn't a preset because most present designers tend to lean in the direction of more complicated sounds.



Hans said stock presets are brighter to wow and impress, the patches they use in films are darker to blend better with the orchestra


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## KEM (Mar 15, 2022)

Now they’re even asking Hans Zimmer to sound like TENET!!

0:26


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## ryan-Phayder (Mar 20, 2022)

apologies if this was already posted


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## vitocorleone123 (Mar 20, 2022)

Wouldn’t something like ShaperBox make it pretty easy? Synth doesn’t have a good arpeggiator? Use BlueArp. Admittedly, my work tends to not follow good tenets…..


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## olvra (Mar 21, 2022)

KEM said:


> Now they’re even asking Hans Zimmer to sound like TENET!!
> 
> 0:26



fr


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## georgewmusic (Mar 21, 2022)

KEM said:


> Now they’re even asking Hans Zimmer to sound like TENET!!
> 
> 0:26



After years of everyone following his lead, its kind of nice to see someone else setting the trends and him following them for a change.


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## Fang (Nov 22, 2022)

KEM said:


> Yeah I saw him using it on the behind the scenes video, I don't currently have it but that's next on my list of things to buy!


Where is this behind the scenes video? couldnt find it


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## KEM (Nov 22, 2022)

Fang said:


> Where is this behind the scenes video? couldnt find it



It’s on the blu-ray/digital copy, you have to buy the movie to watch it


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## Fang (Nov 22, 2022)

KEM said:


> It’s on the blu-ray/digital copy, you have to buy the movie to watch it


oh right, thanks


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