# Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (released)



## Guy Rowland (Aug 22, 2014)

First leaks, folks:

Komplete 10 details (not Ultimate)
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1359

New PolyPlex UI
http://img1.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads ... cf50f7.jpg

New Rounds UI
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1358

New Kontour UI
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1360


Box and Kontrol S49:

http://img7.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads ... 50333f.jpg

Kontrol S25
http://img1.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads ... 939e6b.jpg

Close ups of above:
http://img4.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads ... f4c5b5.jpg

http://img8.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads ... 749174.jpg

Music Arts prices (now taken down at website)
http://img8.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads ... 52c8f2.jpg


No idea what those new products are really, but super-disappointed by the keyboards. Was really hoping for a lot more hands on control, essentially it looks like just another 8-knobs variation (though the display helps some).


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## Cruciform (Aug 22, 2014)

Interesting. They should have integrated Kore into keyboards instead. Oh well.


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## Daniel James (Aug 22, 2014)

Gah was hoping for Kontakt 6. 

Anyone have any ideas what those new instruments are?

-DJ


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 22, 2014)

Daniel James @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> Anyone have any ideas what those new instruments are?



Something to do with sound, I reckon. That's all I got.

Here's a couple of the new pianos, another upright and another grand (modelled this time, perhaps?):

http://img5.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads ... 3eb5eb.jpg

http://img6.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads ... 305ebe.jpg


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## pkm (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

The lights on the keys of the keyboard look interesting. Wonder if they might sync up with the key colors in Kontakt.


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## TheUnfinished (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

That Polyplex thing by Twisted Tools looks a bit like their S-Layer sampling thing.

All very Reaktor-based by the looks of it.

But might finally be time to upgrade from Komplete 7!


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## Cruciform (Aug 22, 2014)

The Polyplex is by Twisted Tools so that will be great, whatever it does.


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## woodsdenis (Aug 22, 2014)

Cruciform @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> The Polyplex is by Twisted Tools so that will be great, whatever it does.



+1 their stuff is first class, but more pianos Ugg. Unless something radically new, there are tons of excellent sampled pianos out there even in Komplete already.


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## GrimeBrett (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

I am not authorized to download this attachment? :( 
Do I need to register for an account?


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



GrimeBrett @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> I am not authorized to download this attachment? :(
> Do I need to register for an account?



I guess that's the KVR links, I guess you may need to register there for those. The others should be working though.


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 22, 2014)

woodsdenis @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> more pianos Ugg. Unless something radically new, there are tons of excellent sampled pianos out there even in Komplete already.



Indeed. But philosophically I'm at peace with knowing that if only a third of Komplete is relevant to me, it's still the best deal in town.


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## pmountford (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

@woodsdenis that was my reaction reading about another 2 pianos... 

Having been happy with Komplete 8 (standard) for a few years now and not really feeling a need to upgrade I'm wondering what products are going to be in the Komplete Ultimate 10? Any thoughts? Is it typically everything up to a particular cut off date that's been included in the past?


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## woodsdenis (Aug 22, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> woodsdenis @ Fri Aug 22 said:
> 
> 
> > more pianos Ugg. Unless something radically new, there are tons of excellent sampled pianos out there even in Komplete already.
> ...



:D it also might be tempting for me to go ultimate this time round if Rise, Molekular, Action Strike are included.


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## Marius Masalar (Aug 22, 2014)

Just the other day I was thinking (after losing more hours of fun with Ultraloop) "gee, how long's it going to take NI to collaborate with TwistedTools on an official instrument?"

Not long, I guess.

Rounds looks something like Propellerheads' Synchronous, which is very welcome. Kontour I'm not sure, but it looks neat.

The keyboards will be the thing that makes me most curious...if they bring the build quality of Maschine to a DAW controller then that'll be an impressive board at the right price. I like that the knobs have screens underneath to display parameter values...hopefully that works outside of NI plugins too, like the Nektar stuff does.

Either way, very exciting! Komplete season begins :D


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## woodsdenis (Aug 22, 2014)

Daniel James @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> Gah was hoping for Kontakt 6.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas what those new instruments are?
> 
> -DJ



Apart from bug fixes and optimisation , what do want from K6 ? It seems pretty complete feature wise as is.


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## Chriss Ons (Aug 22, 2014)

woodsdenis @ Fri 22 Aug said:


> Apart from bug fixes and optimisation , what do want from K6 ? It seems pretty complete feature wise as is.



AFAIC:
-better fx - both in terms of quality and routing options;
-creative and good sounding synthesis/filter capabilities like the ones offered in Mach5 / Alchemy;
-a more pleasant / logical / better looking environment to create your own instruments in.

P.S. thanks for the scoop, Guy.


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## bltpyro (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



pkm @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> The lights on the keys of the keyboard look interesting. Wonder if they might sync up with the key colors in Kontakt.



You would think they have to sync with kontakt, otherwise not sure why they would be there. I really like the idea. It would make it so much easier to know the exact keys you have to deal with. I always tend to forget what keys have keyswitches, and percussion always mixes me up. This would be great.


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## SirKen (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

Rounds seems like an FM synth(?) with non-traditional controls, kind of like Razor with additive synthesis.

Kontour might be some kind of Rotary simulation?..

Polyplex is possibly a sample manipulation/mangler.

Not that interested in the new pianos. However, if K10U comes with every other Kontakt library they have put out since K9U, Molekular and the 3 above, then the upgrade might be a good value. Will wait and see.


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## benmrx (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

K10 new products compared to 9:

Rounds
Kontour
The Grandeur
The Maverick
The Gentleman
Polyplex
Drumlab
Session Horns
Supercharger Driver

Really....., 3 new pianos? Curious what K10 Ultimate will offer.


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## jules (Aug 22, 2014)

woodsdenis @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> Apart from bug fixes and optimisation , what do want from K6 ? It seems pretty complete feature wise as is.



- Sub-tabs for the library tab : drums, horns, strings, etc. It will soon take 30sec to scroll down at the very bottom
- bigger gui (i mean BIGGER)
- a "glide for the dumb" function that allows you to easily implement a glide when you're, herm... dumb (meaning not a ksp scripter)
- Quick preview with a little play icon that plays a Mp3 from the sound for the big guns like abbey road drums that take ages to load
- some general randomization functions to alter the sound in small increments
- choice of different protection scheme for third party dev (ilok or whatever)

Some ideas, but room to improve, imo.


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

So what do we think about pricing? Basic Komplete 10 and the S25 $998, K10U and the S25 $1498. Basic K9 RRP is $559 (according to Amazon.com). That would make the S25 $440 if the basic prices stay the same as K9. Does that seem wildly excessive for a 25 note keyboard? The Arturia minilab 25's RRP is $130. You'd expect a premium, but that seems like one helluva premium - which makes me wonder if the basic RRPs will actually have crept up this time round. And I wouldn't blame them if they did, Komplete is stupidly cheap after all.


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## benmrx (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

The keyboards do seem rather expensive based on what we can gather thus far...., however if those lights DO reflect the various Kontakt keyswitch/trigger assignments then I'm super stoked!! That alone would be a huge workflow boost...., at least for me.


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## Marius Masalar (Aug 22, 2014)

Depends on the build quality and features. Do they have a good velocity response and healthy key travel distance? Aftertouch? The durability of Maschine/Traktor? MIDI sequencing capabilities like the BeatStep?

I could see the price being justified as long as they didn't skimp on quality.


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



benmrx @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> The keyboards do seem rather expensive based on what we can gather thus far...., however if those lights DO reflect the various Kontakt keyswitch/trigger assignments then I'm super stoked!! That alone would be a huge workflow boost...., at least for me.



Yeah, the problem there is none are big enough to be an 88 note master keyboard - the largest is the 61 note. The colours could also be a performance split thing, routed to different synths.

Incidentally, SirKen - Rounds - not sure it's a pure FM synth because it has analogue and digital components. Its an intriguing UI for sure.


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## kj.metissage (Aug 22, 2014)

Can't wait to hear the 3 new pianos, as they are recorded and edited by the guy behind the Galaxy Pianos.

If there is a FAZIOLI in there, I'm in !!!


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## proxima (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



Guy Rowland @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> So what do we think about pricing? Basic Komplete 10 and the S25 $998, K10U and the S25 $1498[...]which makes me wonder if the basic RRPs will actually have crept up this time round.


Those prices are surprising. Since I am interested in the K10U upgrade from K9, I'm hoping this doesn't mean an increase in the RRP of Komplete itself, but there's no way the S25 is a $440 addon. I'm thinking $300 addon, which puts K10 at $699 RRP. Maybe everyone would sell it for $599 or $649, but that's still a noticeable bump from K9 pricing.

I'm still crossing my fingers for a Black Friday 50% off K9->K10U upgrade.


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## Ryan99 (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



proxima @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Fri Aug 22 said:
> 
> 
> > So what do we think about pricing? Basic Komplete 10 and the S25 $998, K10U and the S25 $1498[...]which makes me wonder if the basic RRPs will actually have crept up this time round.
> ...



So soon after release? You can forget this 100% for sure.. Maybe Black Friday 2015...


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## bigcat1969 (Aug 22, 2014)

I got much more interested in the pianos after it was mentioned that they were done by Uli Baronowsky. He did a great job on The Giant.
Anyone with deep piano knowledge care to hazard a guess on what the new pianos will be based on the pictures? What grand piano has 4 wooden beams bolted to the underside of the lid?


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## proxima (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



Ryan99 @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> So soon after release? You can forget this 100% for sure.. Maybe Black Friday 2015...


You're probably right. I see a $650-800 upgrade in my future.


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## kj.metissage (Aug 22, 2014)

bigcat1969 @ Fri Aug 22 said:


> I got much more interested in the pianos after it was mentioned that they were done by Uli Baronowsky. He did a great job on The Giant.
> Anyone with deep piano knowledge care to hazard a guess on what the new pianos will be based on the pictures? What grand piano has 4 wooden beams bolted to the underside of the lid?


Hell yeah !

I hope there is a modern Upright (The Gentleman ?). The Grandeur may be a FAZIOLI (I hope it is). And The Maverick, no idea...

But as I'm killer at these guesses, I bet there will be no Upright nor FAZIOLI :(...


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## Echoes in the Attic (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

Disappointing all around. More reaktor ensembles and some more Kontakt instruments. Another generic keyboard with 8 knobs. No 8 buttons to go with the knobs? I don't understand how they've fallen so far from the usefulness of Kore, which altough it only had 8 knobs, it had buttons, and morphing, and a useful screen for presets, page scrolling etc. These keyboard even have left/right arrows for page scrolling. Seriously? Scroll one page of parameters at a time. If there is no direct page access, that is the biggest workflow filler in hardware. You think I'm going to hit the page over button 7 times to get to the page I need rather than grab the mouse and just go right to the parameter? And maybe have more parameters on big keyboards so there's less paging around, like the Novation SL.

I thought they were going to make a useful keyboard integrated with their stuff when they finally did it. Bleh.


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## BGvanRens (Aug 22, 2014)

Makes me wonder if I should get Komplete 9 now...or just wait for 10 =/

Looking forward to those piano patches though.


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## bigcat1969 (Aug 22, 2014)

The closest thing I could find to a four board piano lid was this three boarder from Mason and Hamlin.

http://pianosmusic.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/selecting-from-the-best-the-journey-to-a-concert-grand/ (http://pianosmusic.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... ert-grand/)

And a four boarder, that's merely another Steinway. :cry: 
http://www.gistpianocenter.com/pianos/steinway/custom-steinway-pianos.php (http://www.gistpianocenter.com/pianos/s ... pianos.php)
Look at the Roger Wiliams Gold

And a very similar look at a less exotic Steinway.
http://www.houstonpianocompany.com/gran ... -steinway/

So the Grandeur might be a custom Steinway.
And I think the Maverick is a Blüthner
http://www.pianelli.de/de/bluethner-flu ... 13608.html


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## Lode_Runner (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

[rant] I'm really really hoping that there will be a software only version of K10U, the screenshot of the website prices didn't look promising. 

I have no use for another MIDI controller - unless of course it features 88 realistically weighted wooden keys (or maybe seaboard style ), polyphonic aftertouch, integrated touch OSC, a maschine like beat pad, several pedals including an expression pedal, tonnes of assignable controls and costs less than $500 :wink: the idea of lights that correspond to what's in Kontakt however could be very useful.

The new pianos could be interesting, they were due to replace the Akoustic pianos. The advertising shots don't make it look like it's sitting in Kontakt? I was actually hoping for Discovery Series Japan, Discovery Series Persia/Turkey/Arabia/North Africa, or Elektrik Guitar Collection.... but there's still lots of great stuff released since K8 (for me Abbey Road 50s Drummer, Kinetic Metal, Evolve, Rickenbacker Bass, the Giant, Session Horns Pro, Cuba, Action Strikes, Session Strings Pro, Rise and Hit, Monark, Skanner XT, Classic Reverbs and Premium Tubes... not to mention a lot of the stuff that was in K8U that I don't already have), so I'll definitely upgrade to K10U if it's software only.

Edit - I just saw on KVR that NI now has prices specifically for Australians that are considerably more expensive than buying in US and paying exchange rates and conversion fees (close to 50% extra) :-( not so sure I'll be buying a software upgrade anymore either, really unhappy about this.
[/rant]


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## dathyr1 (Aug 22, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

Only thing I will be interested in only is what the new Kontakt has to offer if it is to be Kontakt 6.

I dont need any other control keyboards even though these are dedicated to NI. I have enough keyboards already. Dont think I see any packages without keyboard. Hope the software works without needing their keyboards.

If NI is reading any of these posts, I wish the new kontakt would provide some cc external control over "buttons" that are created on GUIs. Seems like everything else can be controlled through CC's but not buttons.

I wonder how much memory this Komplete 10 is going to take up on the computer?
Right now I have the Komplete 8 ultra.

thanks for the prelim news on Komplete 10.

DT


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## mk282 (Aug 23, 2014)

jules @ 22.8.2014 said:


> - a "glide for the dumb" function that allows you to easily implement a glide when you're, herm... dumb (meaning not a ksp scripter)



It's already there, Glide modulator.


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 23, 2014)

Lode and DT - it's inconceivable to me that NI would only release Komplete 10 with hardware, I think that's a misreading of the scattershot nature of these leaks.


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## mk282 (Aug 23, 2014)

Ditto. Of course regular Komplete upgrades without Kontrol will be available.


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## JPQ (Aug 23, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

btw i hope we get upgrades without keys when i get time upgrade. And i hope then is time to upgrade to me its not too pricey. Not going upgrade soon my most important samples in me is played another player. And most important synth is also non NI product. btw i also bope they offer komplete 10 and komplete 10 for users which buy their first komplete without keys. if komplete upgrade is more thana 300euros i going upgrade my komplete if possible single time for 3-5 years (i hope kontakt going get more stable has still problems here,and only big reasons why i care it Galazy II pianos need it) becouse becouse is music is at least currently hobby for me i cannot buy all possible things and there is more important things.


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## Soundhound (Aug 23, 2014)

A bit of topic here, sorry. I just bought session horns pro yesterday, and I'm wondering if that will be included in komplete 10/u. I have 9u. I didn't see a full listing of what the software will be in any of the links?

If so, anyone know if NI let's you return for refund, esp if an update is coming soon?


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## proxima (Aug 23, 2014)

Soundhound @ Sat Aug 23 said:


> A bit of topic here, sorry. I just bought session horns pro yesterday, and I'm wondering if that will be included in komplete 10/u. I have 9u. I didn't see a full listing of what the software will be in any of the links?


I don't think anyone knows with certainty, but Session Horns Pro seems like a very likely candidate for 10U: NI tends to put all their libraries in 10U available at the time. I'd expect the following new stuff in 10U versus 9U:

Session Horns Pro
Rise & Hit
Molekular
Supercharger
Action Strikes
Kinetic Metal
Drumlab

not including the new rumored products in this thread.


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 23, 2014)

proxima @ Sat Aug 23 said:


> Soundhound @ Sat Aug 23 said:
> 
> 
> > A bit of topic here, sorry. I just bought session horns pro yesterday, and I'm wondering if that will be included in komplete 10/u. I have 9u. I didn't see a full listing of what the software will be in any of the links?
> ...



Yup, plus Cuba.

Molekular is the product that most seem excited about of that lot.


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## woodsdenis (Aug 23, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Aug 23 said:


> proxima @ Sat Aug 23 said:
> 
> 
> > Soundhound @ Sat Aug 23 said:
> ...



You can demo Molekular, it's coded by Denis from Zynaptic, who is a bit of a genius. Very original and special. One of the reasons I would go Ultimate this time.


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## Soundhound (Aug 23, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

Thanks Proxima and Guy, looks like I might have jumped too soon for those horns. I wanted them for a job I'm doing this week though, oh well.


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## muziksculp (Aug 23, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

No *Kontakt 6 *? I find that quite odd.


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## Cruciform (Aug 23, 2014)

woodsdenis @ Sun Aug 24 said:


> You can demo Molekular, it's coded by Denis from Zynaptic, who is a bit of a genius. Very original and special. One of the reasons I would go Ultimate this time.



Denis G also did the brilliant Deep series of effects for Kore. They may still be available as Reaktor effects. I use them constantly. 

Molekular is definitely an interesting product. Only thing that has stopped me buying it before now is that there should be enough in K10U this time around to tempt me. Used the demo to good effect in some library cues. 0oD (printing through the bus, nothing dodgy)


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## Guido Negraszus (Aug 24, 2014)

Mmh, a bit disappointed too that there is no Kontakt 6. I also think that the core library could have been updated but we don't know that yet. But either way, I find the upgrade always worth the money as long as it has at least 2-3 instruments/libraries that I would have bought anyway.


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## kj.metissage (Aug 28, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

Hey guys,

Courtesy of *ASICE*, the 3 new pianos !

Looks like there is no FAZIOLI, but there is an Upright, yeah 8) !


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## Lode_Runner (Aug 29, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

Thanks KJ. Judging by the UI, looks like the new 3 are relatives of the Giant, therefore maybe also produced by Galaxy. My curiosity is sparked. I wonder what the three pianos are (I haven't seen the real models to be able to tell from the GUIs).


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## Pietro (Aug 29, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

Anyone please explain, why on earth midi keyboard producers tend to end on 61 keys? :/

Every time I see a new keyboard (this particular one having some interesting controllers on the left), it most likely has no 88 key version.

- Piotr


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 29, 2014)

Amen, Piotr.


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## stonzthro (Aug 29, 2014)

I have no idea other than we are not the target market. I guess most DJs have no real need for 88 keys...


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## gbar (Aug 29, 2014)

Saw NI's teaser in my mailbox this morning.

All I get from it, though, is "Oooh, pretty lights!" lol.

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/komplete-coming-soon/?content=2769&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=KOMPLETE+Teaser+new&utm_source=newsletter (http://www.native-instruments.com/en/sp ... newsletter)


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## Pietro (Aug 29, 2014)

gbar @ Fri Aug 29 said:


> "Oooh, pretty lights!"



"Oooh, pretty lights, knobs and shit!"

Those touch faders for mod wheel and pitch bend (I guess) keep intriguing me though.

- Piotr


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## mk282 (Aug 29, 2014)

That's the thing. Composers needing 88 weighted keys are in the minority. Electronic music producers rarely need more than 61 keys, and lighter touch suffices them well.


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 29, 2014)

mk282 @ Fri Aug 29 said:


> That's the thing. Composers needing 88 weighted keys are in the minority. Electronic music producers rarely need more than 61 keys, and lighter touch suffices them well.



Honestly, the gap in the market is a well made semi weighted 88 keyboard. It simply doesn't exist, and lord knows I've looked. There are loads of weighted options already. Conceptually I have a real problem with weighted keyboards when we spend 95% of our time playing violins, French horns, drums and synths with it, not the piaons that the weighted keys emulate.

Also missing is a genuine synth programmer. Something not with 8 measly knobs, but 40. And a scribble strip. So the dream would be to combine these - maybe a 61 and 88 key version, and a keyboardless expander.


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## eric aron (Aug 29, 2014)

yes indeed.. and why 88? i would wish even more keys, 92 being the ideal, reaching the low F.. 

as for synth programmer, the coming Ipad Pro should be perfect, combined with several XKeys 37 + Touch Keys, and a big ribbon as in the seaboard. 

waiting impatiently for all this to build the setup... 

also some interesting project here: http://www.nonlinear-labs.de/projects/emphase.html


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## wst3 (Aug 29, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Fri Aug 29 said:


> Honestly, the gap in the market is a well made semi weighted 88 keyboard. It simply doesn't exist, and lord knows I've looked. There are loads of weighted options already. Conceptually I have a real problem with weighted keyboards when we spend 95% of our time playing violins, French horns, drums and synths with it, not the piaons that the weighted keys emulate.



My current setup is an Ensoniq EPS Classic sitting on top of a Roland MK-80. I love the weighted action on the Roland, and The EPS makes a decent controller - although setting up splits and the like is annoying. It supports poly aftertouch, but my chops aren't really good enough to take advantage or it.

Biggest problem is it takes up a LOT of space.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/da5u4z16lbje5 ... t.jpg?dl=0

I used to use an Oberheim xK as my synth/organ keyboard, but I prefer the mod/pitch wheels on the EPS - and ain't no way I'm stacking three keyboards<G>!



Guy Rowland said:


> Also missing is a genuine synth programmer. Something not with 8 measly knobs, but 40. And a scribble strip. So the dream would be to combine these - maybe a 61 and 88 key version, and a keyboardless expander.



While there is hardly a mountain of options, there are some pretty good synth programmers. If you are adventurous you can build your own, to your exact specifications, and there are designs at several Arduino and similar sites.

If you are in a hurry there is the Novation SL-Zero, which I really like. And KiwiTechnics (formerly Painting with Sound) has a really cool "Patch Editor" although it seems like you have to be pretty sharp to create your own control surface.
(http://kiwitechnics.com/patcheditor.htm)


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## Pietro (Aug 29, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Fri Aug 29 said:


> Honestly, the gap in the market is a well made semi weighted 88 keyboard. It simply doesn't exist, and lord knows I've looked. There are loads of weighted options already. Conceptually I have a real problem with weighted keyboards when we spend 95% of our time playing violins, French horns, drums and synths with it, not the piaons that the weighted keys emulate.



Absolutely that! I'm ready to spend money, there's just nothing really to spend on. I was hoping last NAMM would bring some options, but not really. Personally, I found keystation 88es to still fit me best. But it's not built that well... And they just made mkii, which is dark blue. So no new kestation for the next 10 years. Come on! :D

For my perfect keybaord, I'd need - semi-weigted 88-keys, modwheel, pitchweel (both physical), two assignable touch faders, say for cc7 and cc11 on the left side. About the size of keystation, minimalistic design, no hundreds of faders or knobs. There's nothing even close to that. Alesis V series look quite fine - I'd actually buy one... If there was an 88-key version.

The NI Kontrol keyboard seems to have some nice features. We'll see what these really are. The lights would be perfect to indicate keyswitches range, but I assume that wouldn't be very easy to make work in any sequencer. Sequencers don't seem to receive much info from multitimbral VST's, especially depending on assigned midi channel. But who knows, maybe it's doable.

Anyway, still no Kontakt 6... I can think of at least a couple improvements, that we could use. Backwards compatibility, for one. And interface overhaul. And VST 3 support. And different buffer settings for different hard drives. Global purge (multi-instance). More ideas, the more I think .

- Piotr


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## stonzthro (Aug 29, 2014)

How about just a small bank of 8 in-line knobs with scribble strips so I can easily tweak the parameters they've already set up - and actually see what I'm tweaking.


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## Guy Rowland (Aug 30, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

Agree with Piotr (as usual). Excellent point about multitumbral Kontakt instances not passing info, that'll be a crucial detail to look out for in Kontrol.

Either I want the es88 but built properly, or something at the other end of the scale with 50 controls not 8. The critical things there are displays - you have to easily see what you're doing - and responsive faders / knobs so they are always set correctly (with a dumb fader it won't be - as you move it the value will jump). This is where Novation stuff falls down. Eric's link looks interesting conceptually, but it seems a bit inelegant and huge. In the meantime, the Avid Artist in cubase is excellent for display and responsiveness of midi data with motorised faders, with the obvious proviso that it's only 8 faders. The Kontrol's endless rotary knobs will do the same thing cheaper, though perhaps it is not as tactile.

Probably it's best to keep the keyboards and controllers separate. I too think the iPad is the answer for a controller - build hardware around an iPad (room for about 40 controllers), with custom screens displaying the info for each plugin.

Leaving me back to wanting a simple es88 built properly.


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## mk282 (Aug 30, 2014)

Pietro @ 29.8.2014 said:


> Backwards compatibility, for one.



Kontakt has always been backwards compatible. Forwards compatibility is unfortunately not really that easy to do and I can understand why NI won't do it. Too much trouble for too little gain (or actual usability).


----------



## Guy Rowland (Aug 30, 2014)

Doesn't Piotr mean backwards compatibility in that the latest version is launched in old projects? I may have misunderstood, but that would be good. Both Play and EZ Drummer do that in my setup, and it seems to work without a hitch. Not sure NI can do much there now though, since all past versions have the product number in the dll.


----------



## mk282 (Aug 30, 2014)

That's a whole other thing related to plugin versioning. It's already possible with the AU plugin since I think Kontakt 5.2 or so. Not sure if VST format is making it easier or worse to do, seems worse otherwise NI would have done it at the same time they did for AU.


----------



## mk282 (Aug 30, 2014)

Pietro @ 29.8.2014 said:


> The lights would be perfect to indicate keyswitches range, but I assume that wouldn't be very easy to make work in any sequencer. Sequencers don't seem to receive much info from multitimbral VST's, especially depending on assigned midi channel. But who knows, maybe it's doable.



This is completely doable if it's done from the product's side, not relying on sequencers at all. So I would bet Kontakt will support these lights via KSP or something.


----------



## Pietro (Aug 30, 2014)

mk282 @ Sat Aug 30 said:


> Pietro @ 29.8.2014 said:
> 
> 
> > The lights would be perfect to indicate keyswitches range, but I assume that wouldn't be very easy to make work in any sequencer. Sequencers don't seem to receive much info from multitimbral VST's, especially depending on assigned midi channel. But who knows, maybe it's doable.
> ...



I hope so. Last time. I requested a similar PLAY feature, so It would always open the VST window on the instrument, for which selected midi channel was assigned to, there was no way to do it. But maybe with a custom keyboard controller (like the NI one), that would occassionally send out an otherwise never used by anyone else CC, as a prompt for data, and receive it back on the same channel - maybe that would be possible.

There would need to be a Kontakt update, so it would actually start sending the data. But yeah, maybe you are right, that it would be possible.

Regarding backwards compatibility - I ment, that it would be lovely if Kontakt 6 would open projects, created with Kontakt 5, 4, 3.5 . At least .

- Piotr


----------



## mk282 (Aug 30, 2014)

Pietro @ 30.8.2014 said:


> Regarding backwards compatibility - I ment, that it would be lovely if Kontakt 6 would open projects, created with Kontakt 5, 4, 3.5 . At least .



Right. As above, AU plugins already do it. As far as VST is concerned, this is already possible with Reaper (which I know you don't use, but oh well). Since Reaper's project files are unencrypted text files, it's completely easy to do a mass find&replace on all your project files, searching for Kontakt 4.dll and replacing that with Kontakt 5.dll, etc. Done in seconds.  I know it doesn't help you, but I'm putting it out there for other Reaper users, at least. I do agree it would be a nice feature (but only if it's optional, latest isn't always the greatest as far as stability is concerned, that's why I still have both K4 and K5 installed).


----------



## Guy Rowland (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

Well boys and girls, Komplete 10 day is here. A Dutch site, http://www.bax-shop.nl (www.bax-shop.nl) , is first out of the blocks. No suprises for me except the price - K10U upgrade from K8U looks a steal. New instruments for Komplete 10 regular:

DRIVER
DRUMLAB
KONTOUR
POLYPLEX
ROUNDS
SESSION HORNS
SUPERCHARGER
THE GENTLEMAN
THE GRANDEUR

New for Komplete 10 Ultimate

ABBEY ROAD 50S DRUMMER
ACTION STRIKES
DISCOVERY SERIES CUBA
DRIVER
DRUMLAB
KINETIC METAL
KONTOUR
MOLEKULAR
POLYPLEX
RISE & HIT
ROUNDS
SESSION HORNS PRO
SUPERCHARGER GT
THE GENTLEMAN
THE GRANDEUR
THE MAVERICK 

Prices, all on this Dutch site and in Euros:

K10 regular

Full version - 489 euros
Update pricing for regular edition - 189 euros

K10 Ultimate

Full version - 979 euros
Update pricing from Komplete 10 regular - 489 euros
Update pricing from K8U / K9U - 336 euros

Kontrol series keyboards

S61 - 679 euros
S49 - 579 euros
S25 - 489 euros

Availability currently saying 5 weeks, not sure if that's accurate.

No updates to the regular series. No word yet on this Dutch site on the Komplete Browser - this was mentioned in a German magazine (excuse the translation and formatting - "The*selection*of*sounds*is done*via*the*new*Komplete browser.*He*offers*a tag-based*search system*and*is*comatible with*all*of the*tools*contained*in*the*software suite.") Not clear if this applies only via the new Kontrol keyboards, or if it launches new instances or what have you. But potentially this could be a new Kore Player, that would be super-useful.

Here's a direct link to the Ultimate uograde from K8U / K9U for your translation enjoyment:

http://www.bax-shop.nl/samplers/native-instruments-komplete-10-ultimate-update-van-ultimate-8-9 (http://www.bax-shop.nl/samplers/native- ... timate-8-9)

EDIT - just checked the NI site, and K9 has now been removed in the last hour or two, so looks like their official site will be live shortly.

EDIT II - NI site now live with demos and full info. Komplete Kontrol software looks like it is included with software only packages - great news. K8U - K10U really is an absolute steal.


----------



## Echoes in the Attic (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

Lots of info about the keyboards up. So I guess there's a single plug-in used as a browser for all of Komplete? Which says that it's like a wrapper for everything. So it's like they have Kore again but without all the great functionality.
http://www.native-instruments.com/en/pr ... -s-series/

Ha, Page 1/16, with arrow buttons! So then we simply need to press right arrow 16 times to get to the parameter on that page we want I guess 



[img=http://s12.postimg.org/vrinao6h5/Screen_Shot_2014_09_02_at_9_43_29_AM.jpg]


----------



## Guy Rowland (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 02 said:


> Lots of info about the keyboards up. So I guess there's a single plug-in used as a browser for all of Komplete? Which says that it's like a wrapper for everything. So it's like they have Kore again but without all the great functionality.
> http://www.native-instruments.com/en/pr ... -s-series/
> 
> Ha, Page 1/16, with arrow buttons! So then we simply need to press right arrow 16 times to get to the parameter on that page we want I guess
> ...



The keyboards aren't so interesting to me. They'll be great as far as they go, but without a) an 88 note version or b) one with far more controls, they're not so exciting.

The software on the other hand - very interesting indeed. From the first rumour of the Komplete Browser I thought "ah, it's Kore Player all over again". But it isn't, clearly. As you say, it looks like a host or wrapper for the other products. So in that sense its a lot better than Kore Player, because you can edit absolutely everything. I'm guessing it'll be monotimbral but not 100% sure. But I love the idea I could have a dozen of these in the template, tag search for what I want and it automatically opens the right instrument. There's great stuff in Prism or Razor for example that I rarely touch cos there's no fast way to search - you have to open one by one and go through them. Sounds like all those sounds are now tagged. This is powerful stuff, tbh I'd consider buying it for this alone if it works smoothly.


----------



## gbar (Sep 2, 2014)

For me, this all comes down to... do I want to pay 400 bucks for Session Horns Pro, Rise & Hit and Action Strikes, and Cuba. Could care less about more pianos, and I have other things that are new, and not sure I care about new synths as I never use the old ones really 

So... 400 bucks for Cuba, Action Strikes and Rise & Hit + another 70GB of drive space for K10U.

Have to think a while on that. I think drive space might be the hardest pill to swallow


----------



## Cruciform (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 02 said:


> Lots of info about the keyboards up. So I guess there's a single plug-in used as a browser for all of Komplete? Which says that it's like a wrapper for everything. So it's like they have Kore again but without all the great functionality.



"Browse and load sounds with the push of a button – KOMPLETE KONTROL manages the entire KOMPLETE universe in a single plug-in, thanks to the tag-based browsing system. "

Yup. Kore.... without the good bits. :roll:


----------



## Echoes in the Attic (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



Guy Rowland @ Tue Sep 02 said:


> Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 02 said:
> 
> 
> > Lots of info about the keyboards up. So I guess there's a single plug-in used as a browser for all of Komplete? Which says that it's like a wrapper for everything. So it's like they have Kore again but without all the great functionality.
> ...



If you have K9 you get a free download for the browser plug-in. I'm curious about it, I'll try it out, but I am skeptical. Will I still be able to use Novation automap for NI plug-ins within this Komplete wrapper? I am curious abou tthe keyboard, those lights would be very handy for Kontakt zones., I'd love that. But with the wrapper all the "most important" parameters are already mapped, so can you edit those assignments? And if you can only go to different pages by pressing left/right buttons, that alone is a deal breaker. I already hate that about the Novation, but at least the SL's have 24 controls, so that's 3x less paging around. Plus, the SLs have over 24 buttons, the Kontrol keys have no buttons with the knobs! At least Kore had 8 buttons with it's 8 knobs and you could scroll pages. They have taken a step backwards. Way backwards.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



Cruciform @ Tue Sep 02 said:


> Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 02 said:
> 
> 
> > Lots of info about the keyboards up. So I guess there's a single plug-in used as a browser for all of Komplete? Which says that it's like a wrapper for everything. So it's like they have Kore again but without all the great functionality.
> ...



I think that's waaaaay too hasty. We haven't seen how it works in practice. I think the potential is huge, possibly considerably better than Kore from a software perspective.

I can well understand the scepticism for the hardware, mind.


----------



## Echoes in the Attic (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

How could it be better than Kore in software? It's just a browser. Kore did that already and a lot more.


----------



## Ozymandias (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 02 said:


> If you have K9 you get a free download for the browser plug-in.



Echoes,

Where does the link for that appear? Service Center or elsewhere?


----------



## jcs88 (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*

I think I'll hold off on the Keyboards - they look nice and shiny, but I think the v2 and up will work better. Want to see some pads and an 88 key version. 

I've got K8U, so think I'll be upgrading; a lot of new stuff there (lots of cool synths).


----------



## Guy Rowland (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 02 said:


> How could it be better than Kore in software? It's just a browser. Kore did that already and a lot more.



I like to just work with the DAW and the synth. I never really liked the idea of something else in between the two, it always seemed kinda clunky. Here (presumably) you audition the preset, it loads the synth itself and you're away. It just seems very simple and elegant - at least in theory. The devil will be in the detail, how quick and responsive it is to use etc.

That said, I never owned Kore 2, perfectly possible that I never really got what was great about it.


----------



## germancomponist (Sep 2, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Fri Aug 29 said:


> mk282 @ Fri Aug 29 said:
> 
> 
> > That's the thing. Composers needing 88 weighted keys are in the minority. Electronic music producers rarely need more than 61 keys, and lighter touch suffices them well.
> ...



+1000!


----------



## GrimeBrett (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

I'm intrigued that these keyboards have ribbon controllers for Modulation and Pitch Bend, rather than physical controllers. Anyone have experience using something like that before?
I like the tactile feel of my physical mod wheel, so I'm not so sure I would like this as well.

~Brett


----------



## Ozymandias (Sep 2, 2014)

I take it K9 users will have to wait a while for this newfangled browser plugin. No sign of it in Service Center at any rate.

Shame that Reaper has been passed over on the "advanced integration" front.


----------



## j_kranz (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

Interesting to point out that for both the keyboard (software I presume) and Komplete 10... Mac OS 10.8 is the minimum spec... so no Lion or Snow Leopard support.


----------



## Pietro (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*



GrimeBrett @ Tue Sep 02 said:


> I'm intrigued that these keyboards have ribbon controllers for Modulation and Pitch Bend, rather than physical controllers. Anyone have experience using something like that before?
> I like the tactile feel of my physical mod wheel, so I'm not so sure I would like this as well.
> 
> ~Brett



I'm intrigued as well. Especially, that they will most likely be programmable. So CC1 and CC11 shouldn't finally be a problem. What I like about that concept is that they will actually display the values and make it possible to catch up. Mod wheel can't do it. I haven't seen a motorized mod wheel.

Though, I use Steinberg CMC series controller with a touch fader, and I have to say, it quickly gets very uncomfortable for your fingers. Not to mention troubles with precision.

I also like the little displays under knobs. This is perfect, if you work with N.I. synthesizers. 

Just out of curiosity. Is there a simple but working iPad app for CC input? Like. Mod wheel on X axis and Expression on Y axis? That would kinda solve my controller needs.

- Piotr


----------



## j_kranz (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

Some more details and hands on info:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2014/09/e ... -pictures/


----------



## Cruciform (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



Guy Rowland @ Wed Sep 03 said:


> Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Sep 02 said:
> 
> 
> > How could it be better than Kore in software? It's just a browser. Kore did that already and a lot more.
> ...



What Echoes said. I use Kore 2 constantly. I wouldn't bother using it between a single synth and the DAW, though it can do that simply for integrating all sounds into the one taggable, searchable database. Kore's power is in creating complex stacked instruments and effects and automating them.

The Komplete controllers do look interesting as hardware but not enough to shell for one.


----------



## Penthagram (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

Perhaps this time i go for the komplete 10,

as i really like how kontour sounds, and the other new synths seem very cool. And for the piano libraries, im addicted to piano libraries so, they are welcomed. The vertical piano one, have a really interesting sound.

As for the controllers, i need to try it, but i will like a "PRO" or "PIANO" version of this controllers with weighted keys. why not complement what it seems a great technology with the best keys possible... i understand the public they are aiming...


but so far for me seems a great update. I don´t own any komplete as i prefer to buy separate products that i need, as massive, razor, but this time im tempted.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Sep 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

There's a useful hands-on first look at the S25 here - http://createdigitalmusic.com/2014/09/e ... -pictures/ . Worth looking at even if you're not interested in the hardware, as there's a good overview of the Komplete Browser too. Essentially it looks like the Maschine 2.0 browser (not that I have any first hand experience of that. but this shows it in action - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HyDCcUMfMc ). Pretty basic, but bound to be useful, especially for that currently untagged Reaktor stuff.

One important thing that came out of the article for anyone interested in the hardware - for all the fancy features to work, the plugin needs to be loaded within Komplete Kontrol.


----------



## TakeABow (Sep 3, 2014)

Does anyone know if the lights on the keyboard will work with Kontakt?

And the follow-up: will the light-up keys work with non-NI kontakt libraries.

I'm drooling over the idea of having the keyswitches/groups light up


----------



## Guy Rowland (Sep 3, 2014)

TakeABow @ Wed Sep 03 said:


> Does anyone know if the lights on the keyboard will work with Kontakt?
> 
> And the follow-up: will the light-up keys work with non-NI kontakt libraries.
> 
> I'm drooling over the idea of having the keyswitches/groups light up



a) - yes; b) probably not.

Read the review linked in the post above yours for more info.


----------



## mk282 (Sep 3, 2014)

b) yes - if Kontakt Player libraries coming with Komplete can make use of it, it's 100% done via KSP, so this means that the same commands will be available to 3rd party Kontakt devs, too.


----------



## bltpyro (Sep 3, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

From the linked article about the lights "Inside the Komplete library, they indicate splits and switches, so that very complex percussion patches are at last understandable."

Non player libraries still show colored keys inside Kontakt, I would think they would still show them on the keyboard, hopefully.

Would love an 88key version, but it would probably way too expensive given the current prices for what you get. I mostly wan't it for the colored keyswitching and percussion mapping.


----------



## JPQ (Sep 3, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

New piano sounds good. Btw still very likely next time i upgrade i still buy reqular one. I dont care much NI samples...


----------



## TakeABow (Sep 3, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

I read that as supporting Battery, but hopefully it means Kontakt too.


----------



## benmrx (Sep 4, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

not sure if this has been posted yet, but I just stumbled across a quick overview of the new keyboard from Guitar Center:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bWdGnjNBag

It gets into the good stuff around 3:30. Killer integration with keyswitches! There's also some pretty neat chord/scale options that would make programming runs or a gliss much easier IMO. 

They also go into some of the new instruments.

And frankly, the touch strip mod/pitch bend is pretty awesome IMO in how they've done it.


----------



## Mystic (Sep 5, 2014)

The key lighting is the only thing that really looks interesting to me and due to the limitation (I doubt anything but NI will ever be able to use them for things like key switch lighting), I really can't justify the absurd cost of this. The FATAR keybed is nice but not $800 nice. Especially when I expect this thing won't be supported for more than 2 years in which it will become a nice paperweight.


----------



## TakeABow (Sep 5, 2014)

I'm in the market for a new keyboard, and IF!? this thing will color code the keys for non-NI Kontakt instruments, I might be on board.

I got burned on the Maschine -> Maschine 2.0 where suddenly I didn't have all the features anymore and that took less than 2 years. 

I will be updating to 10Ultimate though. Looks like a solid update for anyone with K8.


----------



## mk282 (Sep 5, 2014)

It CAN color-code for 3rd party Kontakt libraries, but this has to be specifically scripted on library side (I think).


----------



## benmrx (Sep 5, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

I wonder though if the colored key switches will still come across when dealing with multiple MIDI tracks that are associated with a single instance of Kontakt, or this new browser plugin. I.E. will this only work with "instrument" tracks?


----------



## newtonbach (Sep 5, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

I'm not seeing 10 as a "must have" at this point, guess I need to be convinced, but thank God kontakt is still on 5 IMHO. I've never looked with relish at the stock komplete instruments quite frankly, I'm not seeing a "reason" (I guess that's an antipun) to upgrade


----------



## TakeABow (Sep 30, 2014)

An update for anyone interested - I went ahead and got the Komplete Kontrol 49 Key keyboard since I needed a new midi controller anyhow.

The color coding WORKS natively with any Kontakt Library that has color coding set up (e.g. the keyboard you can see in Kontakt normally - the dev's don't have to specially set up for this keyboard.

You have to load the library as a 'user' library in the Komplete Kontrol plugin, and it just works out of the box.

I tested Spitfire Sable vol.II, Symphobia, Adagio Violins, and a few Soundiron libs. (I haven't updated anything in some time, I need to remember to do that actually...) and they just work.

Komplete Kontrol as a plugin cannot handle more than one instrument layer at a time - so no multiple instance compatibility.


----------



## Echoes in the Attic (Oct 1, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*

Is it only possible to import one preset at a time? I tried importing some sample modelling brass via the folder, but the presets inside didn't come in.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Oct 1, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards (officially announced)*



Echoes in the Attic @ Wed Oct 01 said:


> Is it only possible to import one preset at a time? I tried importing some sample modelling brass via the folder, but the presets inside didn't come in.



I don't think so - from what I understand, you point the browser at your libraries and it installs the whole thing. Early reports of users struggling to get this working right on 3rd party stuff too.

K10U just arrived, no time to install yet but hope to later and report back.


----------



## Echoes in the Attic (Oct 1, 2014)

TakeABow @ Tue Sep 30 said:


> An update for anyone interested - I went ahead and got the Komplete Kontrol 49 Key keyboard since I needed a new midi controller anyhow.
> 
> The color coding WORKS natively with any Kontakt Library that has color coding set up (e.g. the keyboard you can see in Kontakt normally - the dev's don't have to specially set up for this keyboard.
> 
> ...



Can you tell us something about how the parameter page navigation works? Is it really just a left and right button to jump one page at a time? The thought of going through 16 pages by hitting a button 16 times is nauseating. I don't know how any company could create a hardware device without allowing direct navigation to a page or by a dial at least. Is there such a function in the Kontrol keyboards?


----------



## Guy Rowland (Oct 1, 2014)

Couldn't quite face trying third party stuff this evening, but I did have some initial thoughts on Komplete Kontrol. And they are - "it's very version 1.0".

Specifically:

1 - You can only search by everything, or three broad categories (drums, synths, sampled), or an individual product (then you can also further drill down into, say, the Reaktor factory synths). You can't choose, say, three Reaktor synths such as the new 3, as they are separate products.

2 - Search results are alphabetical only. Which gives rise to a problem connected with:

3 - The loading times when switching instruments can be high, even on SSD (some here take 5-10s to load). So browsing alphabetically becomes an interminable bore, and probably the single biggest reason this won't get used much. Simple solution - arrange results by instruments, so you're only switching once in a while. Speaking of which:

4 - There's no indication where the patch is from until you load it. A 2nd column with the name of the product is essential. (There is a details pane to further crowd the browser, which - unbelievably - STILL doesn't have the name of the associated product with it. What were they thinking?!)

5 - You can't resize the browser. This is very odd, and the LHS panes get incredibly crowded.

6 - In Cubase, the quick controls don't seem to be mapped to the 8 rotaries. The default for Massive etc does map the basic 8 macros.

I've not yet attempted to load third party stuff...

All very 1.0. Here's hoping these things get addressed for the next version - it does have potential. One thing that won't change though is the quality of the tagging - next to Spectrasonics, it's sadly a very poor relation. Obvious musical terms such as "warm" / "aggressive" etc are entirely absent, there's no poly synth category (only lead, pad and misc), no way I can find to differentiate between regular ARPs and melodic sequences etc.


----------



## Cowtothesky (Oct 1, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



Pietro @ Fri Aug 29 said:


> Anyone please explain, why on earth midi keyboard producers tend to end on 61 keys? :/
> 
> Every time I see a new keyboard (this particular one having some interesting controllers on the left), it most likely has no 88 key version.
> 
> - Piotr



Yep. It's frustrating. None of the major players are even in the 88 key midi keyboard market. There is so much you could do, such as include a mixing board in the keyboard, make slim lines, mod wheels that don't feel like a toy, etc. It is crazy that you have to find a 15 - 20 yr old keyboard on Ebay, rather than buying something new and awesome. 

If I had the capital and time, I would seriously think about designing an 88-key controller.


----------



## germancomponist (Oct 1, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



Cowtothesky @ Thu Oct 02 said:


> Yep. It's frustrating. None of the major players are even in the 88 key midi keyboard market. There is so much you could do, such as include a mixing board in the keyboard, make slim lines, mod wheels that don't feel like a toy, etc. It is crazy that you have to find a 15 - 20 yr old keyboard on Ebay, rather than buying something new and awesome.
> 
> If I had the capital and time, I would seriously think about designing an 88-key controller.



+1000!

Some years ago I asked "Yamaha" for a good one. I never got an answer... . Why not?


----------



## Dryden.Chambers (Oct 1, 2014)

Could someone please kindly go over what the new browser plugin does and how to download it if on K9 ? TX


----------



## karmadharma (Oct 1, 2014)

has NI ever discussed why ultimate is only shipped on a usb hard drive? it does not sit well with my environmental self to have a usb2 hd shipped to me which I'd never use again post installation when it could be put on a couple of blu-rays (plastic, same env impact of normal dvds) or simply offered for download (where I'd download the pieces as I need them)


----------



## eric aron (Oct 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



germancomponist @ Wed Oct 01 said:


> Cowtothesky @ Thu Oct 02 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep. It's frustrating. None of the major players are even in the 88 key midi keyboard market. There is so much you could do, such as include a mixing board in the keyboard, make slim lines, mod wheels that don't feel like a toy, etc. It is crazy that you have to find a 15 - 20 yr old keyboard on Ebay, rather than buying something new and awesome.
> ...



there is less and less interest for making such keyboards because the cheap toy crap for mediocre musicians is a far more juicy market


----------



## Guy Rowland (Oct 2, 2014)

The weird thing is that someone has already done the heavy lifting, since Fatar make the actual keyboard components in both 88 weighted and semi-weighted variants. So the dream ticket is for a manufacturer to make 2 versions of a single 88 key model. Gimmie a mod and pitchwheel in the body, and I'd buy the unweighted one in a millisecond.


----------



## G.R. Baumann (Oct 2, 2014)

*Re: Komplete 10 and new Kontrol Keyboards*



eric aron @ Thu Oct 02 said:


> germancomponist @ Wed Oct 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Cowtothesky @ Thu Oct 02 said:
> ...



It is really frustrating! Perhaps the old Roland A-90 was the last built in that respect? I used a Kurzweil PC-88 back then.


----------



## jdawg (Oct 2, 2014)

So far I have only 3 issues. 

- black keys in kontakt show up as PURPLE. Which is useless. Most people use black for "nothing" so the purple lights blend into the blue which is usually "samples" all too easily. Any one else experiencing this?

-how on earth do you import 3rd party libs into the kontrol browser?

-how on earth do 3rd party libraries work with the dials? is this a scripting thing developers will have to pre consider?


----------



## Guy Rowland (Oct 2, 2014)

jdawg @ Thu Oct 02 said:


> -how on earth do you import 3rd party libs into the kontrol browser?



I can answer this one at least - in standalone, go to Edit / Preferences / Library / User tab, then add your libraries. I only did a test on a couple which sort of worked - there's no nice icon or anything, even with a Player library, but it broadly works - you need to click the person icon when searching, not the NI one. The problem, of course, is that most 3rd party libs aren't tagged (though some are).


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## TakeABow (Oct 2, 2014)

Echoes in the Attic @ Wed Oct 01 said:


> Can you tell us something about how the parameter page navigation works? Is it really just a left and right button to jump one page at a time? The thought of going through 16 pages by hitting a button 16 times is nauseating. I don't know how any company could create a hardware device without allowing direct navigation to a page or by a dial at least. Is there such a function in the Kontrol keyboards?



It is one page at a time, per button press. And I'd say from my limited testing that the parameters that it assigns for most things aren't exactly the most important. On their 'flagship' stuff e.g. massive presets, they seem pretty darn good, but in Kontakt and Reaktor instruments its much less elegant.

Trying to get used to a touch modwheel is driving me crazy. Is there a standalone midi-modwheel I can buy someplace?


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## Dryden.Chambers (Oct 2, 2014)

Is the new Browser just in the latest version of Kontakt ? I would like to try it on K9U if possible.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 2, 2014)

Dryden.Chambers @ Thu Oct 02 said:


> Is the new Browser just in the latest version of Kontakt ? I would like to try it on K9U if possible.



It's also available for K9 users - you should have got a link I think.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Oct 2, 2014)

TakeABow @ Thu Oct 02 said:


> Echoes in the Attic @ Wed Oct 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Can you tell us something about how the parameter page navigation works? Is it really just a left and right button to jump one page at a time? The thought of going through 16 pages by hitting a button 16 times is nauseating. I don't know how any company could create a hardware device without allowing direct navigation to a page or by a dial at least. Is there such a function in the Kontrol keyboards?
> ...



Thanks. That is a mind bogglingly terrible design decision, especially for a controller with only 8 knobs. With Novation Automap it's bad enough but there are three times as many continuous controls and an equal amount of accompanying buttons. With Komplete Kontrol, even buttons need to be assigned to knobs. The amount of pages for only 8 controls could be outrageous and navigating to them totally impractical. With Kore at least you could scroll directly to the page you wanted and even use buttons for the first IIRC.

They should have called this Keyboard Impraktical Klunky Kontrol.

I love the idea of the lights behind the keys and wouldn't mind a Keyboard specifically for Komplete but what's the point if navigating controls is that annoying.

The worst part is that they don't distinguish between buttons and continuous controls. So even using it with a sensible controller like Novation SL or Nektar Panorama that actually has buttons would be impossible to have them mapped to buttons because all the different plug-ins have buttons in different places in the parameter order, so you're still stuck using knobs and sliders for button functions. how has hardware control gone so far backwards in usefulness?


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## TakeABow (Oct 2, 2014)

Echoes in the Attic @ Thu Oct 02 said:


> Thanks. That is a mind bogglingly terrible design decision, especially for a controller with only 8 knobs. With Novation Automap it's bad enough but there are three times as many continuous controls and an equal amount of accompanying buttons. With Komplete Kontrol, even buttons need to be assigned to knobs. The amount of pages for only 8 controls could be outrageous and navigating to them totally impractical. With Kore at least you could scroll directly to the page you wanted and even use buttons for the first IIRC.
> 
> They should have called this Keyboard Impraktical Klunky Kontrol.
> 
> ...



I got it for the lights, I (for whatever reason) have trouble keeping track of keyswitches on the fly and having those keys light up is SO useful for me.

I work mainly in Ableton and have a Push, as well as a BCF2000 that I use to control stuff, and I'm used to just mapping things on the fly, so I don't 'miss' the features that NI built into the keyboard, but I agree that if the implementation has been as good as advertised it would be game-changing. Instead its mainly just a keyboard with lights.

I haven't looked to see if there is a way for me to tag/assign/build my own custom presets so things I use frequently are set up in a convenient fashion, but maybe that is the case and MAYBE (hardy harr harr) we could start building intuitive presets to share for common products.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 2, 2014)

Train journey boredom – thought I'd share some initial thoughts on K10U, upgrading from K8U, so focusing on the new stuff.

KOMPLETE KONTROL

Said more about this elsewhere. As of v1.0, it's not very useful, but it shows future promise if they address several fairly obvious flaws.

POLYPLEX

I like this, I think. Perfect when you need some electronic drum / percussion / fx something, but aren't quite sure what. Fairly simple to get your head around, plenty of possibilities both for randomising and shaping. Easy to not sound like everyone else.

ROUNDS

This is a tricksier beast. Don't have a full handle on it yet, though I'm getting some of the concepts and they're cool enough. Sound is pretty good, but not insta-love. Like that its trying a different approach, will spend more time with it to figure out how and where I'd use it.

KONTOUR

Not sure this is doing it for me sonically. It's not bad, but not sure it brings much new to the party.

MONARK

I wanted to be unimpressed – yawn another old emulation. But dammit, I'm starting to believe the hype. It does sound and FEEL like a hardware synth as you play (not any old one of course, a MiniMoog). Arguably, emulations are most effective for the simpler synths and clearly there's a whole ton of work gone into this under the hood. I played the first patch that comes up and fell a bit in love. Cos I'm not a purist, I'd have loved an ARP and fx engine right there, but it's easy enough to add outside the plugin. Oh, and a "poly" button. Polyark would be a stupid name though.

THE GENTLEMAN, THE MAVERICK, THE GRANDEUR, THE GIANT

I'm no piano connoisseur, but these all sounded very very good to me, all have good character without that being a euphemism for anything bad. I so don't want any more pianos though.

SESSION BRASS PRO 

Now this was a surprise. I wasn't expecting much, and the first stuff I played suggested my expectations were about right. But as I fiddled around, I got to being rather impressed. While it doesn't raise the bar in terms of pure realism, I think it does offer something new for best-writing-at-speed. Both the legato unison and auto-arrange modes work really rather well, and for many ensemble parts its going to work as well as my usual laborious stacking of BBB and CHH vol2, but with a whole lot less effort. Found myself more grateful than excited.

ACTION STRIKES

Very well executed. It's well trodden ground, but it's UI is excellent, the way you can build dynamics, accents and patterns all on the fly is very well thought through.

ACTION STRINGS

Less impressed with this – feels v1.0 compared to Action Strikes, similar concepts but not as well executed. Sonically it's not as good as the best orch libraries either, so it might not always blend as well (I found the distant mic position better of the two). The most useful stuff by far – as I expected – are the less standard loops with fast runs / grace notes such as the sci-fi patch – it's probably better than anything I already have for that.

CUBA

Remarkably well made, giddily infectious. NI's most recent releases really are incredibly slick and sonically strong.

KINETIC METAL

Another surprise, I'd barely looked at this. It's a niche product for sure, but what it does, it does very well. Really liked the mangling of typewriters and other mechanical oddities with other sources. I'd imagine it would be a goldmine on the right project – pleasingly quirky.

BATTERY 4

Yes, yes, yes – much better than Battery 3. The tagging is welcome, if strangely fussy – only 5 vocal samples came up on a search, even though I'd found several other ones in basic browsing (turns out those were subtags of other categories). But I think this might end up as my goto for non-loop electronic fare.

That's all I've checked out thus far, yet to even look at the effects and some of the other instruments. The USB 3 drive is neat and quick, installs are a breeze.

It hardly bears repeating, but Komplete is simply staggering value. Although not everything hits it out of the park, an awful lot does – overall very happy with this upgrade.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Oct 2, 2014)

TX Guy, no email from NI here, I submitted a request to NI but who know how long that will take. if anyone has anymore info on the new browser with K9 it would be helpful.



Guy Rowland @ Thu Oct 02 said:


> Dryden.Chambers @ Thu Oct 02 said:
> 
> 
> > Is the new Browser just in the latest version of Kontakt ? I would like to try it on K9U if possible.
> ...


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## TakeABow (Oct 3, 2014)

Try these:
http://www.native-instruments.com/go-kontrol

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/getting-started-with-komplete-kontrol-s-series/ (http://www.native-instruments.com/en/sp ... -s-series/)


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 3, 2014)

Dryden.Chambers @ Thu Oct 02 said:


> TX Guy, no email from NI here, I submitted a request to NI but who know how long that will take. if anyone has anymore info on the new browser with K9 it would be helpful.



Try this link - http://www.native-instruments.com/filea ... 101_PC.zip

There's not an awful lot to describe with regard to features above Takeabow's links. Read back on this thread for my issues.


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## Guido Negraszus (Oct 3, 2014)

Are Round and Kontour both Reaktor instruments? I can't find them. Even if I look at the installer window (K10U) they are not listed under the Reaktor instruments. Can anyone shine some light on this?


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## Ryan99 (Oct 3, 2014)

Guido Negraszus @ Fri Oct 03 said:


> Are Round and Kontour both Reaktor instruments? I can't find them. Even if I look at the installer window (K10U) they are not listed under the Reaktor instruments. Can anyone shine some light on this?



You can go to the links from Takeabow posted earlier. They will lead you to the links to download them both.


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## Dryden.Chambers (Oct 3, 2014)

Heard back from NI sales service within a day, They emailed me my serial number for Komplete Kontrol.

Use this link to download manuals, install guide (important), and plugin:
http://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/getting-started-with-komplete-kontrol-s-series/komplete-9-setup-instructions/ (http://www.native-instruments.com/en/sp ... tructions/)

Not sure If I will use it going forward seeing there does not seem show 3rd party libraries in any special way and I do not plan on K10U or NI the Keyboards this year.



Guy Rowland @ Fri Oct 03 said:


> Dryden.Chambers @ Thu Oct 02 said:
> 
> 
> > TX Guy, no email from NI here, I submitted a request to NI but who know how long that will take. if anyone has anymore info on the new browser with K9 it would be helpful.
> ...


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## Guido Negraszus (Oct 3, 2014)

Ryan99 @ 4th October 2014 said:


> Guido Negraszus @ Fri Oct 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Are Round and Kontour both Reaktor instruments? I can't find them. Even if I look at the installer window (K10U) they are not listed under the Reaktor instruments. Can anyone shine some light on this?
> ...


Ah, thanks. Missed that.


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## Soundhound (Oct 11, 2014)

The KOmplete Kontrol software works without the Komplete keyboard doesn't it? I downloaded the 'Control Editor' file and installed, but it doesn't come up as a plugin in Logic X. ?


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 12, 2014)

Soundhound @ Sun Oct 12 said:


> The KOmplete Kontrol software works without the Komplete keyboard doesn't it? I downloaded the 'Control Editor' file and installed, but it doesn't come up as a plugin in Logic X. ?



The Control Editor is something different, you need the Komplete Kontrol software. Try the link a couple of posts above this.


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## Ozymandias (Oct 12, 2014)

FWIW, here's my verdict (so far) on Kontrol without the keyboard:

It's my Reaktor Quickload. For everything else, I don't really care for it. If I was really scratching around for the right sound, I might turn to it as a last resort.

I'm not disappointed, though. Reaktor desperately needed something along these lines and this is definitely better than nothing.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 12, 2014)

Ozymandias @ Sun Oct 12 said:


> FWIW, here's my verdict (so far) on Kontrol without the keyboard:
> 
> It's my Reaktor Quickload. For everything else, I don't really care for it. If I was really scratching around for the right sound, I might turn to it as a last resort.
> 
> I'm not disappointed, though. Reaktor desperately needed something along these lines and this is definitely better than nothing.



Yes, absolutely - definitely the best use of 1.0.

Wish there was a way to search in Prism, Kontour etc as well as the factory ensembles all in one hit, as it is you have to do those separately.


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## Soundhound (Oct 12, 2014)

Ah, thanks Guy.



Guy Rowland @ Sat Oct 11 said:


> Soundhound @ Sun Oct 12 said:
> 
> 
> > The KOmplete Kontrol software works without the Komplete keyboard doesn't it? I downloaded the 'Control Editor' file and installed, but it doesn't come up as a plugin in Logic X. ?
> ...


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## muziksculp (Oct 12, 2014)

Hi,

I have _Komplete 9 Ulitmate_. Not sure if I will rush to upgrade to 10 Ultimate. (Yet). I feel there is not much tempting me to do so. Or am I missing something super awesome in Komplete 10 Ultimate that you feel is worth the price of the upgrade ? 

Plus... Any idea when *Kontakt 6* will be released ? I was surprised that it was not part of Komplete 10. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


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## Ryan99 (Oct 12, 2014)

muziksculp @ Sun Oct 12 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have _Komplete 9 Ulitmate_. Not sure if I will rush to upgrade to 10 Ultimate. (Yet). I feel there is not much tempting me to do so. Or am I missing something super awesome in Komplete 10 Ultimate that you feel is worth the price of the upgrade ?
> 
> ...



It depends of what are your needs. I just upgraded from Komplete Ultimate 8 to 10 and got around 30 new products, so totally worth it for me. For example, Action Strikes and Session Brass Pro are excellent and were released after KU9.


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## blougui (Oct 13, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Thu Oct 02 said:


> Train journey boredom – thought I'd share some initial thoughts on K10U, upgrading from K8U, so focusing on the new stuff.
> 
> It hardly bears repeating, but Komplete is simply staggering value. Although not everything hits it out of the park, an awful lot does – overall very happy with this upgrade.



Thanx for that, Guy. Looking forward to reading you about Rise & hits and Molekular.
- Erik


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 14, 2014)

blougui @ Mon Oct 13 said:


> Thanx for that, Guy. Looking forward to reading you about Rise & hits and Molekular.
> - Erik



Ah yes, hadn't got round to those, had I? Here's a handful more first glances:

RISE & HIT

Just fantastic. Huge variety of patches - orchestral, hybrid, organic etc - that can all be perfectly customised. Very logical interface where you can work in beats or seconds to define your rise time, offset the starts, decays, volume or swap out the individual samples (there are 4 layers per attack portion and 4 per decay). I use Whoosh for Reaktor quite a bit for sound design stuff and I really like that, but I find that best for dedicated creating-new-sound-effects sessions, rather then using within an existing session - Rise and Hit will be much simpler to use within a piece.

MOLEKULAR

I spent a happy hour with this, coming up with mind blowing sounds and generally having a fine old time, while at no point did I have any clear idea about what I was doing. I'm not sure how much patience I will have to truly master it, in my case I think it'll be for when I want something fairly wild in one way shape or form, find a patch close then start tweaking just to see what happens and automating the XY display thing. Great sonics, but its a monster.

VARIOUS OTHER FX

Gave quick listens to the Solid series, Supercharger and Lexicon reverb clones, and they all sounded very good. I had a good chat recently with a dubbing mixer who works on huge blockbusters, and I was specifically asking about an effect he'd used on one which I really liked. Turns out it was a hardware Lexicon, but he brought up the subject of NI's Lexicons saying he was very impressed with them. Indeed to my ears they sound like great algorithmic reverbs, and seem dead easy to use. Really I find with FX I need to play with them over time in context to get a good sense of how much / often I use them - I feel swamped by the amount I already got, but there's no denying the quality here.

SCARBEE RICKENBACKER

I don't have a Rickenbacker, and this played great once I got my head round it. I don't naturally get on with the way Scarbee uses the pedal for slides, whereas you have to hold down A-1 to get a sustain, seems totally the wrong way round to me. But given that, plays really well and sounds great.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Oct 14, 2014)

Yeah the RC reverbs are some of my favourites. And Supercharger is excellent. You upgraded from K8U? Yeah that's boatload of new stuff. I guess you got Evolve and Damage too to check out. DrumLab seems like it could be cool for things like Maschine and Ableton or Bitwig drum racks since the drums come in single drum modules.

I think I'll skip this one having K9U currently. I'd like Rise & Hit, Molekular and some other stuff but always best to skip a version.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 14, 2014)

Echoes in the Attic @ Tue Oct 14 said:


> Yeah the RC reverbs are some of my favourites. And Supercharger is excellent. You upgraded from K8U? Yeah that's boatload of new stuff. I guess you got Evolve and Damage too to check out. DrumLab seems like it could be cool for things like Maschine and Ableton or Bitwig drum racks since the drums come in single drum modules.
> 
> I think I'll skip this one having K9U currently. I'd like Rise & Hit, Molekular and some other stuff but always best to skip a version.



I already had Damage (terrific). Evolve - must admit I haven't installed that, I never really got on with the 2 mutations series. It does sound dated to me. I haven't installed Drumlab either, I'm struggling to imagine a use for it given everything else I have. I'm a Toontrack lover for acoustic stuff, and between Stylus, Battery 4, Polyplex, DM307 and now I've just gone an ordered Breaktweaker Expanded, I just can't imagine what more it could give me. But hey it's just sat there, perhaps I should give it a whirl.

It's almost like I have too much stuff. Almost.


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## 5Lives (Oct 14, 2014)

I was contemplating upgrading from K8, but instead just upgraded my Battery 3 to Battery 4 (which is awesome). Not sure I'd use the new synths and any of the sample libraries I don't have, I'd rather pick and choose which ones I want and buy those when on sale (for example, Session Horns Pro). Komplete is amazing, but almost too much when coupled with the VSTs I already have - trying to limit my options for once


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## artmanjam (Oct 15, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Oct 01 said:


> 3 - The loading times when switching instruments can be high, even on SSD (some here take 5-10s to load). So browsing alphabetically becomes an interminable bore, and probably the single biggest reason this won't get used much.
> 
> One thing that won't change though is the quality of the tagging - next to Spectrasonics, it's sadly a very poor relation. Obvious musical terms such as "warm" / "aggressive" etc are entirely absent, there's no poly synth category (only lead, pad and misc), no way I can find to differentiate between regular ARPs and melodic sequences etc.



Hi Guy, that's the first question I had in mind when looking to the "cross-product" browsing. I was guessing it should take a while and reminds me Omnisphere painful and time wasting browsing.

And I agree with your comment about tagging. It looks like Maschine's one which is very poor and I don't like to use it...


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 15, 2014)

artmanjam @ Wed Oct 15 said:


> I was guessing it should take a while and reminds me Omnisphere painful and time wasting browsing.



Actually Omni is very fast for me off SSD (the only exceptions being some of the very large bass patches in Trilian). Switching between synths in Kontrol is waaaaay slower.


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## j_kranz (Oct 15, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Oct 15 said:


> Switching between synths in Kontrol is waaaaay slower.



Painfully slow here as well... although I get that it is loading the plugin and the patch, so doing twice the work it appears.

So far I love the keyboard... although using the KK plugin itself is somewhat mixed.

To be honest, my favorite use of the keyboard right now is in it's MIDI mode. With their "Controller Editor" program you can create your own light-guide schemes. So in my case, I've made a few quick templates (which you can name and use the up-down errors to swap) that I can switch to with keyswitches already lit-up (for instance I have one for Symphobia, as most patches uses the same keys for keyswitches, etc.). I can even use it for some PLAY libraries this way as well.... quite useful so far.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Oct 15, 2014)

I wish they sold the key lights separate! Like band of lights you could string along the top of your own keyboard. 

Nothing else appeals tome about that keyboard, though the lights would be very useful indeed.


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