# Do you really go for a real live orchestra in the final record?



## HarmonyCore (Sep 2, 2020)

Hey Everyone,

I just came across this interview with Jo Blankenburg and at 3:25 she described synth, midi, and sample libraries as FAKE. She said you can compose with them but you have to have a real orchestra to sound more big.

So, my question is, when a music sync library accept my album that is recorded in the fake world, will they pitch them to their clients as it is or re-record them with live orchestra?


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## Daryl (Sep 2, 2020)

It depends. Many music libraries have no problem pitching sample based compositions. However, in some territories, ones using recorded musicians attract a premium in licence fees. If you write track that works with samples, there is no guarantee that it will work with an orchestra, unless you write it that way.

However, the other thing to realise is that the big players in library music won't accept your album anyway. they always get composers to write to a specific brief, and in that case they will tell you whether or not there will be an orchestra.


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## Henu (Sep 2, 2020)

If it sounds like it "should", why would they care? Besides, the statement above is utter bullshit. Samples are used everywhere in the soundtracks nowadays, either to enhance or to augment the original recordings anyway.


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## HarmonyCore (Sep 2, 2020)

Henu said:


> If it sounds like it "should", why would they care? Besides, the statement above is utter bullshit. Samples are used everywhere in the soundtracks nowadays, either to enhance or to augment the original recordings anyway.



Did you mean her statement is utter bullshit? I also think so because sample libraries are growing and getting bigger everyday so I kind of disappointed from her statement.


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## HarmonyCore (Sep 2, 2020)

Daryl said:


> It depends. Many music libraries have no problem pitching sample based compositions. However, in some territories, ones using recorded musicians attract a premium in licence fees. If you write track that works with samples, there is no guarantee that it will work with an orchestra, unless you write it that way.
> 
> However, the other thing to realise is that the big players in library music won't accept your album anyway. they always get composers to write to a specific brief, and in that case they will tell you whether or not there will be an orchestra.



Thanks Daryl


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## Daryl (Sep 2, 2020)

HarmonyCore said:


> Did you mean her statement is utter bullshit? I also think so because sample libraries are growing and getting bigger everyday so I kind of disappointed from her statement.


However, if you put a sampled based composition up against a recording of an orchestra playing the same composition, if it has been written to work with live orchestra, it will sound better, no matter how good the samples are.


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## Henu (Sep 2, 2020)

HarmonyCore said:


> Did you mean her statement is utter bullshit? I also think so because sample libraries are growing and getting bigger everyday so I kind of disappointed from her statement.



Absolutely. For me, a statement like that sounds awfully pretentious and even a bit embarrassing and kind of inexperienced. But hey, who of us _hasn't_ been in that phase? :D


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## Daryl (Sep 2, 2020)

Henu said:


> Absolutely. For me, a statement like that sounds awfully pretentious and even a bit embarrassing and kind of inexperienced. But hey, who of us _hasn't_ been in that phase? :D


It depends. I always record my music. Why not? It sounds better.


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## HarmonyCore (Sep 2, 2020)

Daryl said:


> However, if you put a sampled based composition up against a recording of an orchestra playing the same composition, if it has been written to work with live orchestra, it will sound better, no matter how good the samples are.



I agree but what if you, as a composer, don't have the budget? or is it something paid by the client? Sorry I have no experience in this obviously.


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## Daryl (Sep 2, 2020)

HarmonyCore said:


> I agree but what if you, as a composer, don't have the budget?



You try to write something that doesn't sound like a cheap knock-off. Write to your samples. Do things that a rel orchestra wouldn't be able to pull off. Be creative.



HarmonyCore said:


> or is it something paid by the client?


It could be. Which is why I say you need to write to the medium you are going to be using. If you are using a real orchestra, make sure that your orchestrations aren't more suited to samples.


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## HarmonyCore (Sep 2, 2020)

Daryl said:


> You try to write something that doesn't sound like a cheap knock-off. Write to your samples. Do things that a rel orchestra wouldn't be able to pull off. Be creative.



Exactly, that's what I am trying to achieve is to produce quality records and sounds as close as possible to the real deal.


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## Henu (Sep 2, 2020)

Daryl said:


> It depends. I always record my music. Why not? It sounds better.



There are a zillion cases where a pure recording doesn't necessarily sound better than a one using the best of both worlds. Sure, a live orchestra -_if done well_- will almost always reign supreme in orchestral music compared to only samples. But in all seriousness, how many times you've replaced e.g. a tambourine or shaker take with samples later in the mix? I know I have.

Secondly, either you are the busiest guy in the industry or have a shitload of henchmen working for you, but there's no way a regular (media) composer could ever record every single instrument and group with real instruments for every single project one does.


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## HarmonyCore (Sep 2, 2020)

Henu said:


> There are a zillion cases where a pure recording doesn't necessarily sound better than a one using the best of both worlds. Sure, a live orchestra -_if done well_- will almost always reign supreme in orchestral music compared to only samples. But in all seriousness, how many times you've replaced e.g. a tambourine or shaker take with samples later in the mix? I know I have.
> 
> Secondly, either you are the busiest guy in the industry or have a shitload of henchmen working for you, but there's no way a regular (media) composer could ever record every single instrument and group with real instruments for every single project one does.



Good point!


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## Daryl (Sep 3, 2020)

Henu said:


> There are a zillion cases where a pure recording doesn't necessarily sound better than a one using the best of both worlds. Sure, a live orchestra -_if done well_- will almost always reign supreme in orchestral music compared to only samples. But in all seriousness, how many times you've replaced e.g. a tambourine or shaker take with samples later in the mix? I know I have.


Ah, but I made very clear tht if you actually write for orchestra, rather than the samples, it will always sound better with the orchesrta.



Henu said:


> Secondly, either you are the busiest guy in the industry or have a shitload of henchmen working for you, but there's no way a regular (media) composer could ever record every single instrument and group with real instruments for every single project one does.


I work on library tracks. Having previously earned my living as a conductor, why wouldn't I record everything?


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## Henu (Sep 3, 2020)

Yep, but I respectively disagree with the point that even though writing _for_ orchestra, (which was my naively basic assumption anyway) it's still horribly dependant on the performance and the recording facilities.

For what it comes to your personal preferences, I can't see how your previous career affects the current situation. To exaggerate a bit, I've previously earned my living as a recording musician, but use also a lot of VI's nowadays. But I guess you're in a very good situation if you can write only what you can record with live players!


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## Daryl (Sep 3, 2020)

Henu said:


> Yep, but I respectively disagree with the point that even though writing _for_ orchestra, (which was my naively basic assumption anyway) it's still horribly dependant on the performance and the recording facilities.



Yes, in the same way that samples are dependant on the same thing. You can have a mediocre orchestra. You can have sample libraries that have terrible QA.



Henu said:


> For what it comes to your personal preferences, I can't see how your previous career affects the current situation. To exaggerate a bit, I've previously earned my living as a recording musician, but use also a lot of VI's nowadays. But I guess you're in a very good situation if you can write only what you can record with live players!


What I'm trying to say is that swapping orchestra for samples would be a backwards step for me.


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## Saxer (Sep 3, 2020)

Daryl said:


> Ah, but I made very clear tht if you actually write for orchestra, rather than the samples, it will always sound better with the orchesrta.
> 
> 
> I work on library tracks. Having previously earned my living as a conductor, why wouldn't I record everything?


Makes sense. Not everyone has the opportunity to work with a real orchestra. But if you have: do it!


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## Bighill (Sep 7, 2020)

Henu said:


> Absolutely. For me, a statement like that sounds awfully pretentious and even a bit embarrassing and kind of inexperienced. But hey, who of us _hasn't_ been in that phase? :D


How much of your music is recorded by real orchestras?


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## Bighill (Sep 7, 2020)

Henu said:


> There are a zillion cases where a pure recording doesn't necessarily sound better than a one using the best of both worlds. Sure, a live orchestra -_if done well_- will almost always reign supreme in orchestral music compared to only samples. But in all seriousness, how many times you've replaced e.g. a tambourine or shaker take with samples later in the mix? I know I have.
> 
> Secondly, either you are the busiest guy in the industry or have a shitload of henchmen working for you, but there's no way a regular (media) composer could ever record every single instrument and group with real instruments for every single project one does.


I´m a regular film/media composer, (working in Scandinavia). Of course I use samples, also in the finished product, but I absolutely always record live strings and winds.


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## thorwald (Sep 7, 2020)

HarmonyCore said:


> I just came across this interview with Jo Blankenburg and at 3:25 she described synth, midi, and sample libraries as FAKE. She said you can compose with them but you have to have a real orchestra to sound more big.
> 
> So, my question is, when a music sync library accept my album that is recorded in the fake world, will they pitch them to their clients as it is or re-record them with live orchestra?


Wow, that really shows that she has absolutely no, or very little experience with sample-based instruments. This is a very foolish thing to say.

I would be very interested to hear what she thinks of HZ Strings vs. a live orchestra, if she wants big. 🤣

Don't get me wrong, a live orchestra is, if you have the chance to record your piece with one, going to sound better, in most cases. You can coax specific emotions out of live players that would be quite time-consuming, or impossible to program. You also get nuances that normally you can't find in a sample library. So no, sample-based instruments are not a replacement, but at the same time, not every composition needs a live orchestra. A lot of movie soundtracks have samples alongside a real orchestra, for example. The reason is that it saves a lot of money, think of percussion, for example. it all comes down to whether the strengths of one approach is going to be adequate for your and your client's needs.

Answering your question, the most important thing that a client is going to go for is the composition. If needed, and if possible, they can request a live orchestra, perhaps request different instrument variations, but your work is never going to be ditched because you are using samples. A live orchestra is going to cost more, of course, but ultimately that should not be your problem. Keep in mind, however, that if you use samples, you might need to reorchestrate your piece(s) for a real orchestra, so that could also mean more work on your part.


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## GNP (Sep 7, 2020)

To me, the ones who keep going on and on about the "samples vs. live" debate, but not about the composition, tells me they utterly lack something in the latter department.....

It's like if I keep talking about how garden-grown spices are better than supermarket-bought spices, but never ever about my own actual cooking skills, or being able to work with what I have.......


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## Bighill (Sep 7, 2020)

GNP said:


> To me, the ones who keep going on and on about the "samples vs. live" debate, but not about the composition, tells me they utterly lack something in the latter department.....
> 
> It's like if I keep talking about how garden-grown spices are better than supermarket-bought spices, but never ever about my own actual cooking skills, or being able to work with what I have.......


Your spice analogy is a little flawed. It´s not about garden grown vs supermarked bought. Canned vs fresh would be more precise when comparing all sample made music to actually recorded. But there is a lot of nuances. Nearly all media composers have extensive experience using samples. All who get a chance are delighted when they can throw out samples in favour of an orchestral recording. How people with no orchestral experience can say that canned is as good as real is beyond me. A lot of composers are guitar players. Do you really think sampled guitars are es good as a well played actual instrument? It´s the same for most orchestral instruments.


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## NoamL (Sep 7, 2020)

100% replace samples with live anywhere, any chance you can get, and it's not a tough decision for me!! 

This discussion isn't about mixing orchestra with software synths, or leaving in programmed percussion, or leaving in things like sampled orchestral fx. Those are fine... the real question is, would you leave your core performances of strings+brass+winds as samples, or mix them with live, or 100% replace with live. Live musicians are simply superior in phrasing, and every other aspect of musicianship IMO.

It is possible to write something that is unperformable, or to write something that goes so hard against the grain of the instruments that the musicians struggle to get a good sound, or to write a piece on an unrealistic template so that the orchestra can't balance the sound in real life. In that case the sample version may "sound better" but only because the writer has left realistic orchestration principles behind.

No shame in writing on a budget or in any other scenario where live isn't possible, but to have live orchestra available and turn it down? No way!!


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## GNP (Sep 7, 2020)

Bighill said:


> Your spice analogy is a little flawed. It´s not about garden grown vs supermarked bought. Canned vs fresh would be more precise when comparing all sample made music to actually recorded. But there is a lot of nuances. Nearly all media composers have extensive experience using samples. All who get a chance are delighted when they can throw out samples in favour of an orchestral recording. How people with no orchestral experience can say that canned is as good as real is beyond me. A lot of composers are guitar players. Do you really think sampled guitars are es good as a well played actual instrument? It´s the same for most orchestral instruments.



1. I would put the "Canned VS. Fresh" in the composition department, and not the samples/live department.

2. Not really, there have been times when I (plus director, producer) preferred the sample mockup over the live performance. Not everybody is desperate to jump on anything live.

3. Again, money problems. Not everybody can afford live. We can be connoiseurs of the finest caviar all we want, but that's not what a majority of composers have.


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## Bighill (Sep 7, 2020)

GNP said:


> 1. I would put the "Canned VS. Fresh" in the composition department, and not the samples/live department.
> 
> 2. Not really, there have been times when I (plus director, producer) preferred the sample mockup over the live performance. Not everybody is desperate to jump on anything live.
> 
> 3. Again, money problems. Not everybody can afford live. We can be connoiseurs of the finest caviar all we want, but that's not what a majority of composers have.


I storgly disagree on your first point. Canned versus fresh very much belong to the realm of production. A chef can have brilliant, fresh ideas, but he or she will need high quality produce to make them come alive. The same with a composer. I can relate to the other two


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## thorwald (Sep 7, 2020)

Bighill said:


> Your spice analogy is a little flawed. It´s not about garden grown vs supermarked bought. Canned vs fresh would be more precise when comparing all sample made music to actually recorded.



I think this depends. Not all supermarkets have fresh spices. Canned is very common.



Bighill said:


> Nearly all media composers have extensive experience using samples. All who get a chance are delighted when they can throw out samples in favour of an orchestral recording.



This is not true. I had the not so fortunate fortune to hear an orchestra that sounded worse than my worst sample library (minus legatos). This really depends on whether you want realism, and whether a live orchestra can provide more than existing sample libraries for your current needs. If not, then it's obviously not worth recording, as much as making most composers' dream of having their piece performed live become true.

This does not mean that sample libraries are better than live players, I don't think that this was ever argued.


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## Henu (Sep 7, 2020)

Bighill said:


> How much of your music is recorded by real orchestras?



Not much, probably under ten sessions. But I've also been producing and mixing other peoples' compositions and orchestral recordings.


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## MartinH. (Sep 7, 2020)

GNP said:


> It's like if I keep talking about how garden-grown spices are better than supermarket-bought spices, but never ever about my own actual cooking skills, or being able to work with what I have.......



Getting a bit offtopic here, but if you haven't already, you should watch an anime series called "Food Wars!". It's about high stakes cooking duels.


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## Bighill (Sep 7, 2020)

thorwald said:


> I think this depends. Not all supermarkets have fresh spices. Canned is very common.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you have such a bad experience you have either worked with a really bad orchestra, or you don´t know how to get the best from them through your writing. Or both. Thats not nice. But I thought it was given that we were talking about high standard professional musicians who know how to make music shine.....


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## Dracarys (Sep 7, 2020)

Daryl said:


> However, if you put a sampled based composition up against a recording of an orchestra playing the same composition, if it has been written to work with live orchestra, it will sound better, no matter how good the samples are.



Really? I've heard many sample productions sound just as good, or better, than this big budget game and recording:


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## rpaillot (Sep 7, 2020)

Dracarys said:


> Really? I've heard many sample productions sound just as good, or better, than this big budget game and recording:




Well, I hear a lot of sampled strings and brass in this main title.
Maybe a recording that went bad ? :D


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## JohnG (Sep 7, 2020)

The top libraries do hire large orchestras and choirs for their flagship cues, and they charge a ton of money to license them.

Not every cue needs a 100 piece orchestra, naturally, or is even written for orchestra. I didn't listen to the exact wording she used (in the film clip) so I'm not endorsing or rejecting what she said, but if you want "that sound" you just can't quite get there without the real thing. Sort-of-almost, but not there.

Someone else made a fair point that you really need very good / great players to make your work sound better than a really well-done mockup, and it definitely can sound worse. I've been at this for some time and have witnessed some hilarious-but-painful fiascos.


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## thorwald (Sep 7, 2020)

Bighill said:


> If you have such a bad experience you have either worked with a really bad orchestra, or you don´t know how to get the best from them through your writing. Or both. Thats not nice. But I thought it was given that we were talking about high standard professional musicians who know how to make music shine.....



We indeed are. My point is that you can have good or bad in both worlds. If you have the budget, and you can afford an orchestra, go for it. But it's not going to be needed all the time, because sample libraries can provide adequate results. Sometimes they are even preferred over a real orchestra, either full or in parts.

I don't have to go far, see Mulan and the soon to be released Phoenix Orchestra.

Calling sample libraries outright fake is a very disrespectful thing to do. They clearly have their place in the music industry. It's like dissing robotics and calling robots fake humans.


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## Bighill (Sep 8, 2020)

thorwald said:


> We indeed are. My point is that you can have good or bad in both worlds. If you have the budget, and you can afford an orchestra, go for it. But it's not going to be needed all the time, because sample libraries can provide adequate results. Sometimes they are even preferred over a real orchestra, either full or in parts.
> 
> I don't have to go far, see Mulan and the soon to be released Phoenix Orchestra.
> 
> Calling sample libraries outright fake is a very disrespectful thing to do. They clearly have their place in the music industry. It's like dissing robotics and calling robots fake humans.


I dont´t understand how calling fake for fake should be so offensive, even if it is the preferred choice. I normally use a mix of sampled and real, and play to the strenghts of both, but I always record strings. Going back to the coocing metaphor, I happily use canned tomatoes in a sauce, but I would never dream of serving canned aspargus. What started this whole thread was the very correct observation that if you wanted to take what they worked on to the next level, they relly needed a large orchestra.


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## Bighill (Sep 8, 2020)

Dracarys said:


> Really? I've heard many sample productions sound just as good, or better, than this big budget game and recording:



Doesn´t sound big budget to me......


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## thorwald (Sep 8, 2020)

Bighill said:


> I dont´t understand how calling fake for fake should be so offensive, even if it is the preferred choice. I normally use a mix of sampled and real, and play to the strenghts of both, but I always record strings. Going back to the coocing metaphor, I happily use canned tomatoes in a sauce, but I would never dream of serving canned aspargus. What started this whole thread was the very correct observation that if you wanted to take what they worked on to the next level, they relly needed a large orchestra.


Yes, and that's how it should be. Use what you need. But on the other hand, imagine if sample library developers had marketed their libraries as "fake". In this regard, electronic music is also "fake", right? Since it does not have any real orchestra behind it.

The whole video, her entire approach to sampling and the use of sample libraries is very arrogant to me. It just tells you that "Hell yeah, I have the money, I can do it, and since I can, if you want to be cool, just leave the fake world behind, with all the fake composers and their fake samples."

Then again, I don't know. Maybe I am alone with this view.


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## Daryl (Sep 8, 2020)

thorwald said:


> Yes, and that's how it should be. Use what you need. But on the other hand, imagine if sample library developers had marketed their libraries as "fake". In this regard, electronic music is also "fake", right? Since it does not have any real orchestra behind it.


Electronic music is not trying to sound like something else, so no, it's not fake.

In any case, so what if sampled orchestra is fake? If it sounds good, it is good. As I keep saying, write to the samples, do something that won't work as well with a real orchestra. Take advantage of the things samples do well.


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## Bighill (Sep 8, 2020)

thorwald said:


> Yes, and that's how it should be. Use what you need. But on the other hand, imagine if sample library developers had marketed their libraries as "fake". In this regard, electronic music is also "fake", right? Since it does not have any real orchestra behind it.
> 
> The whole video, her entire approach to sampling and the use of sample libraries is very arrogant to me. It just tells you that "Hell yeah, I have the money, I can do it, and since I can, if you want to be cool, just leave the fake world behind, with all the fake composers and their fake samples."
> 
> Then again, I don't know. Maybe I am alone with this view.


Electronic music is it´s own realm and not fake at all. Sampled instruments, used to make a "realistic" rendition of traditional music is no less fake than a vinyl floor with a printed wooden surface. Just go to any sample developer´s site and listen to the painful performances of great classical works. There is the real offence. It observation of facts is arragant, so be it.....


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## toomanynotes (Sep 8, 2020)

Daryl said:


> Ah, but I made very clear tht if you actually write for orchestra, rather than the samples, it will always sound better with the orchesrta.
> 
> 
> I work on library tracks. Having previously earned my living as a conductor, why wouldn't I record everything?


Hi, 
I’m writing 10 tracks a month for libraries, I agree orchestra recordings are best, so could you work out how enconomical it would be to use your orchestra to record each piece. Could you give me a rough estimate of how much it would cost me to record, mix and master a full album a month before any of my tracks get placed or make even one penny?
Thanks


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## Bighill (Sep 8, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> Hi,
> I’m writing 10 tracks a month for libraries, I agree orchestra recordings are best, so could you work out how enconomical it would be to use your orchestra to record each piece. Could you give me a rough estimate of how much it would cost me to record, mix and master a full album a month before any of my tracks get placed or make even one penny?
> Thanks


That´s an entirely different discussion


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## toomanynotes (Sep 8, 2020)

Bighill said:


> That´s an entirely different discussion


Fairplay!


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## thorwald (Sep 8, 2020)

Daryl said:


> Electronic music is not trying to sound like something else, so no, it's not fake.


Delia Ann Derbyshire would disagree with this, namely because of the software-generated nature of electronic music, which is an imitation of hardware. So in this regard, you could easily say that electronic music is fake, following her logic.



Daryl said:


> In any case, so what if sampled orchestra is fake? If it sounds good, it is good. As I keep saying, write to the samples, do something that won't work as well with a real orchestra. Take advantage of the things samples do well.


I absolutely agree with you, except, this is really not what we're hearing her say.



Bighill said:


> Sampled instruments, used to make a "realistic" rendition of traditional music is no less fake than a vinyl floor with a printed wooden surface. Just go to any sample developer´s site and listen to the painful performances of great classical works. There is the real offence. It observation of facts is arragant, so be it.....


You know, 15 years ago, I would have agreed. Still, composers used early generations of sample libraries for mockups. Nowadays, you see games having either partial or full use of sample libraries, which suggests that sample libraries are certainly capable in their own right. Are they the same as a real orchestra? No, but they can get close, certainly closer than 15 years ago.

What is implied in the video is that you should entirely forget about sample libraries, leave the fake world behind, because a real orchestra is better. As a result, you see OP's question, and possibly worry, will be my compositions recorded with a real orchestra? Essentially, is it even worth composing with sample libraries at all?

This is like the ever-present question of "will I need music education to be a successful composer?" While there is no doubt that music education will help, it does not mean that it's the only way.

You know, I'd have had absolutely no issues at all, if she said, "Look, my composition was lacking, and I felt that it could get a lot better when played by a real orchestra." This message would suggest, especially to aspiring composers, that yeah, try and get a real orchestra if you can, but it's not the end of the world if you can't, for whatever reason. Just use whatever strengths a method provides. This was not the message I was getting at all.

Music is such a complex art, and I think that some of us just gets lost in realism, forgetting that without good composition, it does not matter how real your orchestra/sample libraries are, it won't work. But this is also true the other way around. If your piece is written for an orchestra, it can be very difficult or impossible to replicate it with sample libraries. And then, like me, you could always get a horrible orchestra, and it will just sound better with a sample library or two.


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## Bighill (Sep 8, 2020)

thorwald said:


> Delia Ann Derbyshire would disagree with this, namely because of the software-generated nature of electronic music, which is an imitation of hardware. So in this regard, you could easily say that electronic music is fake, following her logic.
> 
> 
> I absolutely agree with you, except, this is really not what we're hearing her say.
> ...


I won´t say so much about games, as I don´t know that world so well. It just seems like that music is listened to in a home environment. But in my experience, even the best all sample productions, produced with the last generation technology, will fall very short in a movie theather compared to a (partly) orchestral track. This is what the people in the video is talking about. They are no strangers to using samples, and seem to be very informed about the differences. Do you really think people shell out all this money on orchestral perfomances out of vanity?


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## Daryl (Sep 8, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> Hi,
> I’m writing 10 tracks a month for libraries, I agree orchestra recordings are best, so could you work out how enconomical it would be to use your orchestra to record each piece. Could you give me a rough estimate of how much it would cost me to record, mix and master a full album a month before any of my tracks get placed or make even one penny?
> Thanks


Yes I could. First tell me your budget, then I will work out whether or not it's worth my time.


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## thorwald (Sep 8, 2020)

Bighill said:


> I won´t say so much about games, as I don´t know that world so well. It jyst seems like that music is listened to in a home environment. But in my experience, even the best all sample productions, produced with the last generation technology, will fall very short in a movie theather compared to a (partly) orchestral track. This is what the people in the video is talking about. They are no strangers to using samples, and seem to be very informed about the differences. Do you really think people shell out all this money on orchestral perfomances out of vanity?


I really don't think that with a video like this they prove that they are no strangers to sample-based instruments. If anything, they might be stuck in early 2000s.

Especially in the trailer genre, where the trailer music itself for a movie is not made by the main composer, it can happen that the entire cue is based on sample-based libraries. They certainly don't fall flat in any cinema/theatre, when used within their limitations. And that's the keyword.

While I obviously can't speak for any professional composer, I would not be surprised if vanity was a partial reason at times, simply because orchestral recordings can be afforded.

I realize that I am probably alone with this, and my past stated views here, and obviously what people think is their own business, I just voiced my opinion on the matter. Take away what you will ☺️


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## Bighill (Sep 8, 2020)

The woman is clearly a producer for this company. http://positionmusic.com. Jo Blankenburg is one of the composers they work with. Their stuff seem to be all over the place, byt mainly hybrid. Does it look like they are stuck in the early 2000 and generally have no idea of the latest developments om music technology?


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## thorwald (Sep 8, 2020)

Bighill said:


> The woman is clearly a producer for this company. http://positionmusic.com. Jo Blankenburg is one of the composers they work with. Their stuff seem to be all over the place, byt mainly hybrid. Does it look like they are stuck in the early 2000 and generally have no idea of the latest developments om music technology?


Based on the video, yes. But you have clearly made up your mind. If prestige and reputation means more to you, then you are certainly entitled to that opinion, and we agree to disagree.


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## Bighill (Sep 8, 2020)

thorwald said:


> Based on the video, yes. But you have clearly made up your mind. If prestige and reputation means more to you, then you are certainly entitled to that opinion, and we agree to disagree.


To confuse my sense of quality with desire for prestige and reputation is actually offensive. Sorry, I just think you are the inexperienced and uninformed one. And did you check out their site?


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## thorwald (Sep 8, 2020)

Bighill said:


> To confuse my sense of quality with desire for prestige and reputation is actually offensive. Sorry, I just think you are the inexperienced and uninformed one. And did you check out their site?


I don't think that expecting knowledge of something based on a website, and on reputation and prestige has anything to do with your sense of quality, which was never questioned, unlike my experiences.

I formed my opinion solely on an interview, or part of an interview that has been posted and stated that I think that the knowledge and experience given, based on outside factors, e.g. a website, reputation and prestige, was not lived up to in the video. As I said, we agree to disagree.


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## Bighill (Sep 8, 2020)

thorwald said:


> I don't think that expecting knowledge of something based on a website, and on reputation and prestige has anything to do with your sense of quality, which was never questioned, unlike my experiences.
> 
> I formed my opinion solely on an interview, or part of an interview that has been posted and stated that I think that the knowledge and experience given, based on outside factors, e.g. a website, reputation and prestige, was not lived up to in the video. As I said, we agree to disagree.


Fair enough


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## Satorious (Sep 8, 2020)

I believe live players bring nuance/personality which is tricky to replicate in most sample libraries. That said both have their place and these libraries are getting more and more sophisticated. I see no problem combining the strengths of both or using one over the other - depending on the project/time/budget. The reality is that general audience members simply do not care if it's sampled or not - providing the music works!


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## Daryl (Sep 8, 2020)

thorwald said:


> Especially in the trailer genre, where the trailer music itself for a movie is not made by the main composer, it can happen that the entire cue is based on sample-based libraries. They certainly don't fall flat in any cinema/theatre, when used within their limitations. And that's the keyword.



And part of the reason for that is that much trailer music is not really orchestral, in a traditional sense, even if an orchestra is eventually hired. For example, the repeated string staccatos, that we often hear, cannot be played like that in real life. It just isn't possible. The _*ffff*_ Brass chords that last more than a couple of seconds. Same thing. So the sound we have become used to is the sample sound.


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## SamC (Sep 10, 2020)

As someone who has written a lot for both samples and live players, I would go live every time. There is a certain satisfaction in producing top notch mock ups, but then you start getting into the realm of clients not even noticing the difference.

That’s when you crave for live players more; because your samples really shape your writing and there’s nothing worse than feeling like you're compositions are restrained in some way.

Collaboration and real people playing real instruments should be done as much as possible. Especially when these days individualism and creativity is the biggest asset. Everyone using the same string libraries and percussion patches can really stifle that, imo.


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