# Who's the greatest NON-living film composer?



## NoamL (Jan 12, 2019)

The point of this question isn't to be morbid, it's just that our discussions focus a lot on composers who are active today and their films.

Who do you think is the greatest film composer who's passed on? Especially in terms of their movies & music continuing to have relevancy and emotional impact for us now. And are there any whose music, without alteration of style, would still be kicking ass in modern Hollywood?

EDIT: (I have a personal favorite, and also a suspicion of which composer most people shall name - which aren't the same person! - but I will leave the discussion completely open ended for the beginning...)


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## D Halgren (Jan 12, 2019)

James Horner

Did I win?


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## Nmargiotta (Jan 12, 2019)

Jerry Goldsmith imho. Would love to hear what he would do today.


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## SoundChris (Jan 12, 2019)

There are a lot of great guys so I guess it is not possible to talk of THE greatest. Hm so some of my personal heroes would be Nino Rota (Godfather II, Il Gattopardo), Jerry Goldsmith (Alien, Star Trek), Bernard Hermann (Vertigo and other Hitchcock movies), Marvin Hamlisch (The Sting) and Toru Takemitsu (for his ultra dark score for Akira Kurosawa´s RAN)


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## D Halgren (Jan 12, 2019)

My real answer is Johann Johannsson though.


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## Paul T McGraw (Jan 12, 2019)

*Miklós Rózsa*

*Alfred Newman*

*Erich Wolfgang Korngold*

*Bernard Herrmann*

I personally think the music of all of these would still work today. Especially for a director that knew how to actually pace scenes for emotional impact. The problem would be finding a director who knew how to actually put together a coherhent story, as opposed to non-stop action, all the time.


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## D Halgren (Jan 12, 2019)

Paul T McGraw said:


> *Miklós Rózsa*
> 
> *Alfred Newman*
> 
> ...


I didn't know that we could yell our answers


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 12, 2019)

Judging by the sheer number of times I hear their poor songs beaten to death in commercials, I'd say a tie between Strauss (for "Also sprach Zarathustra") and Grieg (for "In the Hall of the Mountain King").


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## CT (Jan 12, 2019)

Don't forget Alex North!


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 12, 2019)

miket said:


> Don't forget Alex North!


Best not to mention the whole "Also sprach Zarathustra" business to Alex. 



D Halgren said:


> James Horner
> 
> Did I win?


You win!

But that makes me think of Prokofiev for _some_ reason...


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## imagegod (Jan 12, 2019)

D Halgren said:


> James Horner
> 
> Did I win?



Nope...it's Beethoven, first, last and always:

9th:

"A Clockwork Orange" (1971)*
"Cruel Intentions" (1999)
"Dead Poets Society" (1989)
"Die Hard" (1988)
Fur Elise:

"Django Unchained" (2012)
"Patch Adams" (1998)
"Rosemary's Baby" (1968)
7th:

"The King's Speech" (2010)
"Mr. Hollands Opus" (1995)
"X-Men: Apocalypse" (2017)
5th:

"The Breakfast Club" (1985)
And so on, endlessly...

*“Oh bliss, bliss and heaven... Oh, it was gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flesh... And then, a bird of rarest-spun heaven metal, or like silvery wine flowing in a spaceship, gravity all nonsense now... I knew such lovely pictures - ”


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## D Halgren (Jan 12, 2019)

imagegod said:


> Nope...it's Beethoven, first, last and always:
> 
> 9th:
> 
> ...



Sorry, but he was not a Film Composer. Thank you for playing!


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## imagegod (Jan 12, 2019)

Of course he was...he just didn't know it.


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## D Halgren (Jan 12, 2019)

imagegod said:


> Of course he was...he just didn't know it.


Don't make me Rolling Stones you...


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## patrick76 (Jan 12, 2019)

Wow. It’s impossible to choose, but I would say Goldsmith and Herrmann today. ....and Horner. ......and Barry...... and Kormgold..... and...... etc. Ok, I can’t do this


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 12, 2019)

patrick76 said:


> It’s impossible to choose, but I would say Goldsmith


Whoa I was thinking the exact same person. _Joel_ Goldsmith. Stargate anyone?


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## Rodney Money (Jan 12, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Judging by the sheer number of times I hear their poor songs beaten to death in commercials, I'd say a tie between Strauss (for "Also sprach Zarathustra") and Grieg (for "In the Hall of the Mountain King").


My 5 year-old baby girl said Grieg did a bang up job on the movie Trolls.


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## ptram (Jan 12, 2019)

Jerry Goldsmith. He could write in any style, and say something new in each one.

Paolo


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## ptram (Jan 12, 2019)

imagegod said:


> Of course he was...he just didn't know it.


Exactly. He was much ahead of his time, but he was already a film composer. How would one call Wellington's Victory, if not a soundtrack?



Paolo


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## Kent (Jan 12, 2019)

Goldsmith.


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## robgb (Jan 12, 2019)

Bernard Herrmann. Hands down.


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## storyteller (Jan 12, 2019)

I’m gonna go with Horner. Modern? Yes. But that’s my vote.


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## tokatila (Jan 13, 2019)

Prokofiev.

/Thread


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## Land of Missing Parts (Jan 13, 2019)

I think people aren't necessarily answering the same question here.

1) *Who is your favorite non-living film composer?*
For me, Goldsmith. Jerry, that is.  That's just personal taste though.

2) *Who is the greatest non-living film composer?*
I genuinely don't know enough history to say for sure, but if I had to guess I'd say Bernard Herrmann. Maybe Prokofiev on a technicality, since he did score films, but was much more influential with his ballets and concert work. And historically speaking film composers weren't influenced by each other's music so much as they were influenced by concert works.

Of course once the era of temp music arrived, there's the interesting question of who among the non-living has had the most influence over temp music. That's something I'd _love_ to know.

3) *Are there any whose music, without alteration of style, would still be kicking ass in modern Hollywood?*
This is the question I'm most interested to hear people's opinions on. I suppose the easy answers are Johan Johansson and Horner, but I feel like that's not the point of the exercise. So other than the recently deceased, I don't know and would be interested to hear other people's thoughts.

It seems like woodwinds would hurt a lot of people's chances. Also, the cheesiness factor. Things are a lot more serious and muscular now, less playful and cheeky.


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## Living Fossil (Jan 13, 2019)

ptram said:


> How would call Wellington's Victory, if not a soundtrack?



concert music


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## chillbot (Jan 13, 2019)

I see there are 3 groups that should be in this conversation, you have:

Korngold, Hermann, Steiner, Newman, Waxman, Rosza. Who did I forget? The greats, the classics. The greatest? Not sure. Certainly would be interesting to see what they would have done with modern synths. Give Rosza Omnisphere instead of a theramin, watch out!

Horner, Kamen, Johannsson. Died at age 61, 55, and 48 I believe? I'm not even convinced they should be in this thread. They could have and probably would have been writing music for another 20 years.

And then there is Goldsmith who is probably the correct answer but I actually wish he had retired sooner. I feel like his legacy is tarnished by taking on movies later in life that would have benefited from a fresher and more modern sound. Stick to LA Confidential and skip The Mummy. (EDIT: Dang, John Barry slipped my mind. He should be in this category with Goldsmith.)

Anyway my answer would be Kamen. But you'd probably not be wrong going with anyone mentioned here.

This is a sad thread because I'm sure it will be bumped when the only possible answer is John Williams.


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## patrick76 (Jan 14, 2019)

chillbot said:


> And then there is Goldsmith who is probably the correct answer but I actually wish he had retired sooner. I feel like his legacy is tarnished by taking on movies later in life that would have benefited from a fresher and more modern sound. Stick to LA Confidential and skip The Mummy.



I don't know, he wrote Soarin' Over California and the score for The Sum of All Fears after The Mummy and I dig those so I'm glad he was still writing. Granted, they are not LA Confidential, but really not many scores can compete with that one imho.

@NoamL what is your answer to the question you posed?


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## gregh (Jan 14, 2019)

Shostakovitch should get a nod as well but of course there are so many wonderful composers who have written for film. Another young and tragically dead composer we heard too little of is Marcus Fjellstrom


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## NoamL (Jan 14, 2019)

patrick76 said:


> @NoamL what is your answer to the question you posed?



I was going to guess that Hermann would be the consensus answer - it's seemingly not! But my personal answer would be a tie between Poledouris and Rosza.


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## Chr!s (Jan 14, 2019)

Jerry Goldsmith.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 14, 2019)

There is no best, but as far as raw skill, Michael Kamen was a freak.

He'd watch a scene, ask for a click that hit x and y. Then - without watching - he'd play into the Kurzweil K250 sequencer, make maybe four passes to add some parts, and it would hit x and y (i.e. the film was running in his head). He'd hand that to an orchestrator.

I pissed him off by transcribing a cue with a lot of 64th notes into 3/2 to make them 32nds rather than 3/4 ("Bach would use 3/2 when he was fucking serious!" he said.). So that was it for me. Can't win 'em all. But it was still quite an experience.


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## Guido Negraszus (Jan 14, 2019)

Bernard Herrmann, Jerry Goldsmith, John Barry, James Horner.


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## givemenoughrope (Jan 14, 2019)

Don’t you mean...



...decomposer?
(I’ll get my hat)


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## Chr!s (Jan 14, 2019)

givemenoughrope said:


> Don’t you mean...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## givemenoughrope (Jan 14, 2019)

Oh cmon!

My vote goes to Herrmann and Goldsmith (I dont think he tarnished his legacy...Ennio has done a bunch of sappy, unmemorable lovey dovey scores in the late 70s/80s and so what)...maybe Takemitsu??

That said I dont know a whole lot about most of the Hollywood Golden Agers like Max Steiner and them. I need to though.


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## Sami (Jan 14, 2019)

William Walton


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## Christof (Jan 14, 2019)

There is no "greatest" film composer.
Each one was unique and brilliant.


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## kevthurman (Jan 14, 2019)

Would love a world where Strauss and Wagner and Mahler and so on scored films.


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## marclawsonmusic (Jan 15, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> There is no best, but as far as raw skill, Michael Kamen was a freak.
> 
> He'd watch a scene, ask for a click that hit x and y. Then - without watching - he'd play into the Kurzweil K250 sequencer, make maybe four passes to add some parts, and it would hit x and y (i.e. the film was running in his head). He'd hand that to an orchestrator.
> 
> I pissed him off by transcribing a cue with a lot of 64th notes into 3/2 to make them 32nds rather than 3/4 ("Bach would use 3/2 when he was fucking serious!" he said.). So that was it for me. Can't win 'em all. But it was still quite an experience.



Wow - great story, Nick!


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 26, 2019)

Herrmann, Goldsmith, Rozsa, Friedhofer, Korngold, Alfred Newman.


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## ProfoundSilence (Jan 26, 2019)

*sharpens dagger*

the real question, is which great composer to you want to become non-living 

everyone has their price


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 26, 2019)

3) *Are there any whose music, without alteration of style, would still be kicking ass in modern Hollywood?*

Goldsmith, Bloody Goldsmith. All day money.


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## jbuhler (Jan 26, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> Herrmann, Goldsmith, Rozsa, Friedhofer, Korngold, Alfred Newman.


I'd add Steiner and Waxman from the studio era for sure, maybe Stothart, Tiomkin, and Victor Young as well. Korngold didn't write enough scores, I think, and if you are going to include him, I think you'd have to include Copland as well, who was arguably far more influential on film music.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 26, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> I'd add Steiner and Waxman from the studio era for sure, maybe Stothart, Tiomkin, and Victor Young as well. Korngold didn't write enough scores, I think, and if you are going to include him, I think you'd have to include Copland as well, who was arguably far more influential on film music.



They're all terrific. My favorites are Alfred Newman, Goldsmith, Herrmann and Rozsa, so my post is pretty biased.


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## Parsifal666 (Jan 26, 2019)

Now that you mention it, I was thinking of Friedhofer, not Korngold. Ewps.


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## jbuhler (Jan 26, 2019)

Parsifal666 said:


> They're all terrific. My favorites are Alfred Newman, Goldsmith, Herrmann and Rozsa, so my post is pretty biased.


Yes, a very fine list!


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## robgb (Jan 26, 2019)

Goldsmith is a close second to Herrmann.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 27, 2019)

Keith Richards.


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## Fredeke (Feb 4, 2019)

imagegod said:


>




Thanks ! It's a great watch and actually helps understand some of the arrangement techniques.


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