# New HS demo by Thomas J. Bergersen



## Hannes_F (May 25, 2010)

Soaring Over Hollywood 
composed by TB:

http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-strings

Direct link:

http://media.soundsonline.com/ip/mp3/24 ... lywood.mp3


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## madbulk (May 25, 2010)

Well I'll be darned. Quite listenable.


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## Marius Masalar (May 25, 2010)

Magnificent!

Really fun to listen to and impeccably executed mock-up. Thanks for pointing this out, Hannes!


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## sadatayy (May 25, 2010)

ok now he's just bragging.


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## handz (May 25, 2010)

One of his weaker ones if you ask me, but listenable, yes.


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## sadatayy (May 25, 2010)

handz @ Tue May 25 said:


> One of his weaker ones if you ask me, but listenable, yes.



weak emotionally/melodically perhaps (derivative work) but skill and technique wise it is ungodly good


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## Craig Sharmat (May 25, 2010)

This is one of thòÍ   ÔíÍ   ÔîÍ   ÔïÍ   ÔðÍ   ÔñÍ   ÔòÍ   ÔóÍ   ÔôÍ   ÔõÍ   ÔöÍ   Ô÷Í   ÔøÍ   ÔùÍ   ÔúÍ   ÔûÍ   ÔüÍ   ÔýÍ   ÔþÍ   ÔÿÍ   Ô Í   ÔÍ   ÔÍ   ÔÍ   ÔÍ   ÔÍ   ÔÍ   ÔÍ   ÔÍ   Ô	Í   Ô
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## Stephen Baysted (May 25, 2010)

Great demo.


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## Frederick Russ (May 25, 2010)

Actually I think its probably the best one to demonstrate what HS can do. That's what demos are for, no? I disagree with some of the sentiment here regarding the writing - I found it interesting harmonically and courageous in development especially to be realized in midi mockup form. So what if its not bombastic? Its still good. Good use of many articulations and for many applications of writing.


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## germancomponist (May 25, 2010)

Craig Sharmat @ Tue May 25 said:


> This is one of the best demos I have heard and a terrific and varied use of Hollywood Strings which is maybe what is most important. It seems the library can do a lot of things. So parts are derivative, I am sure that was a personal choice. The point is look what one can do with this lib in capable hands. This is a demo!
> 
> On a personal note I really love this style of writing. the melodies are developed and carried over to beautiful conclusions.



+1

And the sound / tone ..., love it!


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## johncarter (May 25, 2010)

handz @ Tue May 25 said:


> sadatayy @ Tue May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > handz @ Tue May 25 said:
> ...



Man if you can do those trumpets, horns and those trombones/tubas big accents with EW stuff. I marry you.


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## handz (May 25, 2010)

Frederick Russ @ Tue May 25 said:


> Actually I think its probably the best one to demonstrate what HS can do. That's what demos are for, no? I disagree with some of the sentiment here regarding the writing - I found it interesting harmonically and courageous in development especially to be realized in midi mockup form. So what if its not bombastic? Its still good. Good use of many articulations and for many applications of writing.




If you put it that way - the best demo would be strings only composition. 

My complaint have nothing to do with the fact that it is not bombastic but it is also have no other distinct mood, it sounds like the fill between two main themes in Wllams piece for me (which is still good) . I have listened it three times now and can recall anything from it. But thats just me 


johncarter: those first two brass hits sounds VERY EWQL like.


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## Audun Jemtland (May 25, 2010)

Aaaah delightful. Sweet and charming.

Notice how more critical people get as great music and products come out.The better you are,the harder critisism you'll get. Great products come out,new trends is instantly set,and THEN suddenly we want more,bigger and better:D
We're lucky someone sits through all that pain and agony for us,ain't no dance on roses you know;P...

A fun observation that's all.
And thank you all for your efforts in sampling.

And please the man got his own characteristic sound and style,no one can replicate it if they tried..not even those composers he's compared to. We all got our own signature voice either way.


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## handz (May 25, 2010)

Now I feel bad! 
Thomas I have folder with your music on my HDD and listen to it very often, you are the best  so please dont take my critique bad.


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## choc0thrax (May 25, 2010)

handz @ Tue May 25 said:


> Now I feel bad!
> Thomas I have folder with your music on my HDD and listen to it very often, you are the best  so please dont take my critique bad.



Don't worry, what you said was true. Ugh, I hate agreeing with you, it makes me feel weird.


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## handz (May 25, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Tue May 25 said:


> handz @ Tue May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > Now I feel bad!
> ...




Whoa, i was thinking that from that day when I first heard your music we become best friends!


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## sadatayy (May 25, 2010)

no one's dissing thomas's works. this piece is one of the greatest mockups of all time it's good it's great it's amazing. 

i'm just saying it didn't necessarily emotionally move me. not all pieces do. when was the last time you were moved by jerry goldsmith? i feel a lot of people like certain music just for the technical prowess. i'm not moved by goldsmith and he has top notch skills but i'm moved by hans zimmer's chords. 

thomas J is the best of both worlds i'm just saying this piece in particular showed elite technique but not necessarily emotional that's the point i was trying to make. 

but back to the mockup, it's very good and one of the best. thomas would be interesting to hear your input on how long it takes you to write something like that


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## choc0thrax (May 25, 2010)

handz @ Tue May 25 said:


> choc0thrax @ Tue May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > handz @ Tue May 25 said:
> ...



Since Kid-Surf has moved onto a new forum I think you could be my new online friend with benefits.


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## handz (May 25, 2010)

Kid-surf is gone? 

Ok I will take his place, I saw you recomending GOLD to someone, you become so nice person, it would be great!


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## choc0thrax (May 25, 2010)

[quote:f226f448e6="sadatayy @ Tue May 25, 2010 2:22 pm"]no one's dissing thomas's works. this piece is one of the greatest mockups of all time it's good it's great it's amazing. 

i'm just saying itòÍK   ÔiÍK   ÔjÍK   ÔkÍK   ÔlÍK   ÔmÍK   ÔnÍK   ÔoÍK   ÔpÍK   ÔqÍK   ÔrÍK   ÔsÍK   ÔtÍK   ÔuÍK   ÔvÍK   ÔwÍK   ÔxÍK   ÔyÍK   ÔzÍK   Ô{ÍK   Ô|ÍK   Ô}ÍK   Ô~ÍK   ÔÍK   Ô€ÍK   ÔÍK   Ô‚ÍK   ÔƒÍK   Ô„ÍK   Ô…ÍK   Ô†ÍK   Ô‡ÍK   ÔˆÍK   Ô‰ÍK   ÔŠÍK   Ô‹ÍK   ÔŒÍK   ÔÍK   ÔŽÍK   ÔÍK   ÔªÍK   Ô«ÍL   Ô®ÍL   Ô¯ÍL   Ô


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## handz (May 25, 2010)

Ummm... Zimmers chords over Goldsmith? on MTV maybe. 

Ugh, hope that Hans don´t chime in right now!



and yes wish they made PC version of that, Im sick of buying a new console every few years because one or two games.


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## sevaels (May 25, 2010)

Sadatayy and Choc0 - Nothin' but love for you two.


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## choc0thrax (May 25, 2010)

sevaels @ Tue May 25 said:


> Sadatayy and Choc0 - Nothin' but love for you two.



Is that sarcasm? Cuz if it is I'm opening IRC right now and someone is going to get slapped around with a large trout.


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## sevaels (May 25, 2010)

No sarcasm at all. 

You guys said it perfectly.


But I do love it when you smack me with the large trout...

:wink:


BTW - Very nice work TJ. Technically very impressive.

When do the Horns go on sale at your new Tonehammer-esque one stop shop for custom orchestral samples?


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## dcoscina (May 25, 2010)

I liked the piece. Reminds me of vintage Williams


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## handz (May 25, 2010)

sevaels @ Tue May 25 said:


> But I do love it when you smack me with the large trout...
> 
> :wink:



Ed would not be very happy when he will find out!


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## sevaels (May 25, 2010)

The 'Cheaters' episode is coming out any day now.

Was EPIC.


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## madbulk (May 25, 2010)

One of my favorite demos ever. 
Yes, firstly it demo's the hell out of the product, so it's a success.
But I can't just say, "Nice job, Man. Technically great," with a straight face. In fact, I can barely think of it now without laughing.
Even as I TRY to be critical for a second, maybe finding something to pick at, maybe. It's totally drowned out by, "Wow."


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## José Herring (May 25, 2010)

Anybody that doesn't think that this is one of the best sampled demos ever is in some serious need of a reality adjustment, imo.

Of course some of the strings sound sampled at times and of course it would sound better with really live talented players, but this demo is pretty damn close.

As for the comments of it being original or not, way too much emphasis is placed on originality. In this day and age it's more important to be badass than original. And, I place this "demo" in the badass category.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 25, 2010)

Once again the bar is set higher by the master - amazing work TJ. I will say though that I found myself paying more attention to the brass than to the strings, but that's not because the strings don't sound great.


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## Hannes_F (May 25, 2010)

josejherring @ Tue May 25 said:


> of course it would sound better with really live talented players, but this demo is pretty damn close.



R u serious?


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## germancomponist (May 25, 2010)

One thought; I would like to listen to this piece without any reverb used.... .

Is this possible, Thomas? If not, no problem! 

I ask because reverb has a large share of the overall result of the sound.

Thanks

Gunther


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## madbulk (May 25, 2010)

Gawd, how many times can we go around this? 
No, Hannes, it doesn't sound close to real. Unless you compare it to everything else you can put into an 80% empty glossy box that only a dufus would proudly display on his dorm ass looking bookshelves. When you DO compare it to everything else, on a forum dedicated to same, it sounds freakin' close.

I'm taken with the brass and the composition in general. No doubt about it.


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## noiseboyuk (May 25, 2010)

A really complex, varied demo, and not a single note sounded fake to my ears (nor would to any moviegoer, I'd imagine). In the right hands, these tools are just amazing.


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## Hannes_F (May 25, 2010)

madbulk @ Tue May 25 said:


> Gawd, how many times can we go around this?
> No, Hannes, it doesn't sound close to real. Unless you compare it to everything else you can put into an 80% empty glossy box that only a dufus would proudly display on his dorm ass looking bookshelves.



HAHAHA that is a nice signature BTW.

Actually I am happy that the "oh it sounds so real" comments are much less than with other products that deserved that comment much less ... because this means the VI community has matured in a way. Really.

I think this library is a killer product and a great tool, totally worth it and will have great impact on the industry. Scores will sound much better than they used to sound, and maybe I will finally be able to enjoy TV again. Just skip the comparision with the real thing, and everything is OK.


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## madbulk (May 25, 2010)

Hannes_F @ Tue May 25 said:


> Actually I am happy that the "oh it sounds so real" comments are much less than with other products that deserved that comment much less ... because this means the VI community has matured in a way. Really.


R u serious?


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## givemenoughrope (May 25, 2010)

Pretty darn amazing. Even with a month, 10 slaves and SSDs I wouldn't be able to create a mockup like this. But, i've never been asked to and don't really want to do. 

What if this virtual orchestra was reduced in size to about 20 players (playing a different piece, of course)? How do you mock THAT up to perfection? Or is it even possible? Or would anyone even want to try without adding at least couple real players?


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (May 25, 2010)

The demo starting out a bit fake, but then when everything came in..wow.

I want those horns.


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## Hannes_F (May 25, 2010)

madbulk @ Tue May 25 said:


> Hannes_F @ Tue May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > Actually I am happy that the "oh it sounds so real" comments are much less than with other products that deserved that comment much less ... because this means the VI community has matured in a way. Really.
> ...



Absolutely.


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## Frederick Russ (May 25, 2010)

midphase @ Tue May 25 said:


> Oh please...gag me with a spoon!



I always suspected you to be a valley girl - now we know.


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## Guy Bacos (May 25, 2010)

Fantastic demo! Thomas J. Bergersen is so talented!


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## José Herring (May 25, 2010)

Hannes_F @ Tue May 25 said:


> josejherring @ Tue May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > of course it would sound better with really live talented players, but this demo is pretty damn close.
> ...



I'm just hearing some phrasing and expression that I previously only heard with live players. I'm not really comparing this to a live ensemble. Just to be clear.


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## Guy Bacos (May 25, 2010)

The demo is very good, but seems to me a string demo alone, showing the technical range of the instrument would be more appropriate for a string library, in all fairness.


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## Dr.Quest (May 25, 2010)

That's all fair and good but this shows how most people that would buy it and use it how it sounds in context. Working composers are going to use it as part of their tools. I want to hear how it works with those tools. This showcases that. 
J


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## Guy Bacos (May 25, 2010)

Well that's all very nice if you have the same lib as TJ. I would have put both.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (May 25, 2010)

Once again I'm convinced those other libs are EW libs in the works. I'm sure of it now.

The strings are great, but there's a straightness to them at times that sounds very EW. The strings go from "wow" to "stale" at times.


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## sadatayy (May 25, 2010)

TJ man seriously, when you gonna start scoring movies? Enough with these demos they need to put you in charge of the next epic bruckheimer/michael bay movie. i know you work with hans now why isn't he getting you any work. he got movies for all his other underlings and they're not close to as talented as you.


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## midphase (May 25, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Tue May 25 said:


> The strings are great, but there's a straightness to them at times that sounds very EW. The strings go from "wow" to "stale" at times.




Thank you.


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## sadatayy (May 25, 2010)

midphase @ Tue May 25 said:


> Nathan Allen Pinard @ Tue May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > The strings are great, but there's a straightness to them at times that sounds very EW. The strings go from "wow" to "stale" at times.
> ...



i very much agree with you by the way (what you said before). the straight tone of the strings is beautiful with good detail but when they start moving around they don't sound that great to me. i'm almost inclined to say that LASS has better legato in my opinion whereas HS has better straight sustain tone


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## Patrick de Caumette (May 25, 2010)

Great work TJ!
Your execution (not ejaculation Choco!) speed always kills me.

No matter what, this is one big step closer to the dream strings library...


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## Dave Connor (May 25, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue May 25 said:


> Once again the bar is set higher by the master - amazing work TJ. I will say though that I found myself paying more attention to the brass than to the strings, but that's not because the strings don't sound great.



Me too Ned. I thought the strings were mixed down which is a bit curious for a demo specific to strings.

I should add that the trumpets were stealing the show for me. They sounded great.


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## P.T. (May 25, 2010)

The brass was very loud.


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## Guy Bacos (May 25, 2010)

My apology Nick, I hadn't gone to the website, just listening to the one posted here.


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## midphase (May 25, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Tue May 25 said:


> This is actually a divisi demo, hence the somewhat smaller tighter sound. We have plenty of string only demos, so I think this one was pretty damn cool.
> 
> Midiphase, You should give it a rest. What would you guys think if my wife posted every five minutes about how lame lass sounds?



Damn Nick...relax, I can see that it must be more than a bit frustrating to not have the power to ban anyone who rubs you the wrong way around here..huh?

I have been fair and have complemented HS (and many other products of yours), as well as been a client. I have gone as far as saying that I will probably pick up HS when the time comes.

I'm hearing some things that are not sounding to me as amazing as you guys seem to think and I believe it's my right to express my opinion in a respectful manner.

If your wife has issues with LASS, she should absolutely come on VI Control and contribute to the threads.

This is not an either/or scenario as you guys seem to think, I have stated multiple times that I see both HS and LASS as being valuable tools in a composer's quiver.


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## midphase (May 25, 2010)

Nick, perhaps you should go back and read my post, I even urged people to go out and buy HS, and complimented TJ on a fantastic composition. The "gag me" statement was meant as a joke to Jose's statement which you have to agree is somewhat over the top.


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## chimuelo (May 25, 2010)

. .


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## Guy Bacos (May 25, 2010)

I could understand if this was on EW or HS forum this could be argued, but since it's an independent forum, don't really the problem.


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## José Herring (May 25, 2010)

It's one of the best sampled demos EVER!!!


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## choc0thrax (May 25, 2010)

Nick, you should really reconsider being more like Eric Persing.


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## Dynamitec (May 25, 2010)

I'm not an expert when it comes to strings, nor do I want to take any side in this discussion, but I want to share my opinion:

I think this demo sounds great in terms of sound quality/mix, but I don't think that it's one of the most realistic ever. Especially since this one is supposed to demo the strings and not brass. If the focus would be on brass, I think it did a very good job


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## midphase (May 25, 2010)

Nick,

Nobody wants you to be an ass kisser. But you have to understand that if you appreciate all the accolades and praises that people give you (including myself from time to time), you have to be equally gracious about criticisms.

Nobody is disputing that you guys have put a lot of time and effort into HS or anything else that you do. But time and effort does not automatically grant anyone immunity from criticism (as Uwe Boll knows very well).

Sorry if my posts are coming across as malicious, but I once again would like to state that along with criticism, I'm always careful to give credit where credit is due and that I am not politically motivated despite my friendships with other developers.


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## midphase (May 25, 2010)

and your point is? Grow up Nick.


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## givemenoughrope (May 25, 2010)

Anyone feel like doing a quick mockup of Music for Strings, Percussion and Celeste with HS? Maybe Adagio for Strings? etc?


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## choc0thrax (May 25, 2010)

This is why I suggested the Eric Persing approach - so he wouldn't eventually slip into a full blown Francis Belardino incident. 

I've got my credit card in hand, about to order more chicken and lube.


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## midphase (May 25, 2010)

As I said Nick, grow up.

Or maybe I should be flattered that you consider me influential enough on this forum to go through this nonsense? 

Most of my praises regarding LASS were written well before HS was out and in many cases were candid comments based on LASS and CS demos and most before I even owned LASS.

Instead of blindly copying and pasting...how about reading my posts beyond the first sentence? You might be surprised that I'm not nearly as critical of HS as you make me out to be.

On the other hand...if you feel that this is winning you some more sales...indulge yourself (and thank you for giving me way more credit than it's worth).


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## givemenoughrope (May 25, 2010)

hey Nick, how about you address some of the negatives/questions midphase has about HS instead. Nowhere in there did he insult you are anyone of your team. 

For the record, I DID get banned for a week or something from the EW forum b/c Doug wouldn't answer my question about how PLAY uses RAM even though he would chime in and pat himself on the back. Turns out it works great in Windows 7 so it doesn't matter but that experience left me feeling weary about anything from EW even if it sounds great. 

For me, it's about how HS and LASS can compliment each other. I own LASS but I'm not ready to make the leap to HS until it seems like that is something that is possible. So far, the demos, even the patch demos, haven't totally convinced me of that. It's kind of tough when you don't have them side by side to mix together. I'd like to hear some "smaller" more divisi demos.


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## givemenoughrope (May 25, 2010)

....


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## Guy Bacos (May 25, 2010)

midphase @ Wed May 26 said:


> Or maybe I should be flattered that you consider me influential enough on this forum to go through this nonsense?



This is what I was wondering. Is Kays some guru around here? lol


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## givemenoughrope (May 25, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Tue May 25 said:


> I didn't see any valid questions or criticisms. He's trying to help his good friend. If you don't hear reasons to buy HS from the demos then be happy with LASS.



Well, he brought up the divisi mic positions for one. 

I don't need to hear reasons as much as demos. So far, all that is up there are demos for people making BIG-sounding mockups. I'm never going to write for more that 30 some string players if I'm lucky. The demos up there sound great, but they don't address me or a lot of people who don't want to sound like Hans Williams Newton Howard.

edit- Also, I don't know what you mean by "helping his friend". If you mean the creator of LASS, I don't think he needs any help.


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## midphase (May 25, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Tue May 25 said:


> Midphase, My point is simply that LASS and HS are different tools and try as you may, your efforts to boost your friends library and caution all the suckas against HS are silly. LASS is great and you should be happy you have it. Just give us a break.



Nick, 

The suckahs comment was an obvious joke (apparently totally missed on you), I've been called that many times myself for jumping on a new operating system or software. I've been saying that HS and LASS are different but complementary tools all along if you ever managed to read what I write and not just see in it what you want to see.

This type of posturing gives me quite an allergic reaction which undoubtedly biases me, but as I said before, if the hype is warranted I have no problem giving credit where credit is due.

If you go back and read my posts (especially the ones I wrote after your new demos have come out) and including my most recent one on this very thread, I think you'll find some fair assessments and a good deal of praise alongside the criticism. Compared to some of the other things that people have said about you guys (both in public and behind closed doors), I think you have to agree I'm pretty mild.


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## givemenoughrope (May 25, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Tue May 25 said:


> If you want a small sound, then LASS is the way to go. Not that it can't also sound big.
> 
> I like our divisi approach because the samples are in tune. I didn't answer his questions on divisi because it would sound critical of LASS.



Fair enough but I doubt it would come off like that. Like, I said x times already, to me it would be about using both. Maybe some layered demos will pop up here soon.


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## midphase (May 25, 2010)

Ok, one more thing and then I will seriously give it a rest.

Let me state for the record that I'm glad that HS exists, and I definitely see myself purchasing it in the future, I think it offers things that LASS does not, and I think that there is plenty of room for both libraries to co exist and not compete.

Let me also say that I think TJ is one of the most talented SOB's that I have ever had the pleasure to shake hands with. I think he's made an art out of orchestral simulations and he has an obviously amazing understanding of composition and orchestration (and yes...he is on my iPod).

Let me lastly say that friends or no friends, if LASS wasn't a good product I would not have been so vocal about it. I have been involved with products by friends of mine which I didn't necessarily feel were particularly worthy, and have not praised publicly or privately regardless of how much I was influenced by said friendship.

Maybe you and I should have a beer together, make fun of Sarah Palin for a couple of hours, and then we'll be friends too and if I criticize HS you'll know it'll be said with lots of love!


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## midphase (May 25, 2010)

"NO one has done more for film composers than me."


~o)


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## givemenoughrope (May 25, 2010)

PLAY was a disaster sampler for years and on Mac it still is.


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## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


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## José Herring (May 25, 2010)

Well Nick I think you did a fantastic job with HS.


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## choc0thrax (May 25, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Wed May 26 said:


> That's right let me say it again. No one has done more for film composers ( sample wise ) than me. It's not ego. It's just a fact. I've busted my ass for years on this stuff and it has paid off with my sounds being used more than any others. Some of you are really mean. I'm really hurt.



Ehhh I think that's debatable. I think Spectrasonics(run by that dude that you should be at least 50% more like than you currently are) has had a large impact.(Their products contain samples).

Nick, does anyone participating in this phony argument HS demo publicity generator thread get an HS discount? Just pm us the 50% of promo code when ready.


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## givemenoughrope (May 25, 2010)

Nick, 

EW touted PLAY as the RAM workaround on Mac years ago. It still doesn't work. That's the single biggest thing that people have hoped for in order to load and use your sounds easily. That right there is talking a big game and not delivering. 

What about Project Sam, Kontakt, Digidesign, Apple and Microsoft? Haven't they done anything for Film Composers. And we're not saying that these things have been necessarily good by the way. 

How about electronic mockups becoming de facto standard for film scoring? It could be said that you and others fill a need and therefore no one has done more for you than film composers.


----------



## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it


----------



## Nick Phoenix (May 25, 2010)

Not worth it.


----------



## givemenoughrope (May 25, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Tue May 25 said:


> Insert giant donkey penis here. Good luck guys.



Maybe Doug can help you script that one. 

Good luck helping out all those film composers.


----------



## Lpp (May 25, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Tue May 25 said:


> Not worth it.



Are you sure, this Nick Phoenix is the real one ? No one with a company who wants to sell a product to hundreds of people on this forum can behave like this.

Let me guess... "Not worth it"...


----------



## IvanP (May 25, 2010)

huh...getting back on topic, if I may...

I'm quite impressed, actually, because of some things a few consider wrong...

To me, the impressive thing here is the phrasing and bowing of the string lines (besides that awesome brass, of course !!!)

Obviously, the demo has an enormous balance in the orchestral spectrum and the strings lay where they should...I don't think that's an easy task and I can't imagine how I would achieve a template like that without help...still, I'm sure some guys would and do things differently...maybe that's why the violins sound a bit "different". 

BUT...I am hearing real bowing here!! I can't pull that correctly with the libraries I have...maybe with a lot of hours, putting a down bow sample here, then up there, a up bow crescendo, down bow resolution there from another library...so, it could take what? three weeks to complete the mock up?

If you guys tell me all that phrasing and ultra fast real phrasing + use of dynamics are possible with just using 2-3 different violins patches....I'M SOLD!!

So...Thomas or Nick...any info on this regarding the demo?

Thks, 

Iván


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## lux (May 26, 2010)

Soaring is a pretty nice piece of music. I think we should stop dissecting those type of tracks to check how much original or derivative or whatever work has been used. I think its a bit unrespectful of the artist itself whose first goal is express his own musicality and show off the new library. 

Lets give an artist, was Thomas or everyone else, the right to post "music" instead of tickling your orchestration fireworks need bells at every cost. I find this an enjoyable piece of work which gives me real pleasure listening.


Personally i hear the strings a bit back in the mix and with a less wide-spreading stereo appeal than the brass (on headphones). I guess is just a matter of levels and mic choices probably or just a blend of different ambiences. 

In general i like how they sound and move, probably a complex library like this will offer more and more chowcases for months.

Luca


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## futur2 (May 26, 2010)

i really like the demo, not so much the music but the sound. but you know it already, i'm ... not worth it


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## Dan Mott (May 26, 2010)

I liked how HS was used in this demo, although it was a little too typical for my liking.


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## Tanuj Tiku (May 26, 2010)

Thats a fantastic demo! 

Can someone tell me - what the hell is that brass? Its awesome! I suspect, the trumpets are custom recorded patches. 

I bow to TJB for programming and producing sampled music of this quality! 

HS is doing some nice tricks - but they were still the weakest in the chain. I dint hear stuff that other libraries cannot do - very difficult to make out since its a full blown composition for the entire orchestra. The tone is great and the playability seems quite nice. 

But again - its a little weak in certain areas it seems - but I cannot say for sure till I hear other naked demos. We already have great legatos from Vienna - I still prefer Vienna over even LASS for most things - but thats just me. Most people here seem to be using Lass - I rarely read people talk about Vienna Instruments anymore.

All demos are Demos at the end of the day. I think - people expect too much sometimes - its obviously not a live string section sitting in our computers - but its a good library with a great tone and some nice tricks.

The strings are mixed just fine as far as this piece is concerned. But for a demo of a string library - I have to agree that some naked demos will help. 

Congratulations to everyone involved on HS. You guys have been getting a lot of heat but I am sure the product will be great.

In fact, I might consider buying this a little later - after 5 years of only using Vienna Instruments.

Actually in some places, the strings are pretty good - and you dont notice them that much - thats probably because it flows nicely.

I am a new fan of TJB!



Best,

Tanuj.


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## NYC Composer (May 26, 2010)

Good lord. THIS again??

Anyone who doesn't think Nick has done a tremendous amount to advance sampling for composers hasn't been listening, or is deaf. Anyone who doesn't own and appreciate EW products(is there anyone?) is missing out.

That said, Play was a mess for a long time (it's been relatively stable for me since 1.2.5), there was a lot of denial and obfuscation about it, and there's never been a satisfactory mea culpa about any of that. Additionally, this thin-skinned forum stuff is beneath anyone, let alone someone of Nick's status. I still remember the sniff and the walkaway some time ago. My feelings about all of that are the same now as thy were then-simply ridiculous.

On topic, the demo sounds friggin' great to me. H.S. sounds very impressive, and I'm sure the demos are just scratching the surface. Not to mention, this is essentially a 1.0 version- I imagine things will expand and improve incrementally.

LASS is great, H.S. is great, it all raises the bar. These personal exchanges and sensitivities are unfortunate and bizarre.


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## Jaap (May 26, 2010)

Maybe a bit off topic, but going to comment the demo 

Wonderfull demo, showing a lot of great insights on how the strings can be used. Not going to comment the composition itself since it's not relevant I think since it's a demo to show the capabilities of what the strings can do.
Only comment I have it that the brass sounds too damn good and is really really distracting from the strings somethimes :mrgreen:


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## handz (May 26, 2010)

WOW looks like there was quite a fun overnight! (and I missed it :( )
Hey choc - Who won?


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## Justus (May 26, 2010)

I think Nick's account has been hacked...


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## noiseboyuk (May 26, 2010)

I know I shouldn't encourage this soap opera, but just for clarification - are the 200 "not worth it"'s the original posts or have they been subsequently edited by Nick (or anyone else?)

It does all seem very bizarre.


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## ChrisAxia (May 26, 2010)

Hey guys,

I think the demo is excellent and I bow down before TJ's mastery! How many more naked demos do you need? TJ did a lovely strings only demo several months ago, and we have many articulation demos also. Isn't it time to hear them in context as well?

I have just started using HS and I'm loving them. The tone is beautiful, especially the cellos where I can now achieve a sound I previously only dreamt of hearing with samples. Yes, it needs a powerful system, but I am producing a song at the moment, all running on a previous generation Mac Pro 8 core with 14 Gb RAM, with PLAY in Bidule running 4 legato patches as well as the QL Steinway and some percussion. Logic meanwhile is hosting over a hundred sounds in Kontakt (LASS, Spitfire Perc etc) Omnisphere, Trillian and Ethno and various reverbs and it's all working very nicely. HS sits on a separate Seagate 7200 drive to the other samples. I will wait a while before I feel it necessary to buy an SSD.

Play appears to be working very well for me now, where previous versions were causing stability issues. I'm a very happy HS user!

~Chris


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## Sovereign (May 26, 2010)

I caved in, just ordered HS.


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## JBacal (May 26, 2010)

How can one man compose and produce 4 minutes of such spectacular music in just 2 days? Heck sometimes it takes me 2 days just to boot up my computer! Thomas -- awe-inspiring work as always!

Best wishes,
Jay


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Tue May 25 said:


> I'll take Zimmer's Journey to the Line over Goldsmith's entire oeuvre.



Congrats, that may be the silliest comment anyone has ever made here, and it has a lot of competition :lol:


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2010)

JBacal @ Wed May 26 said:


> How can one man compose and produce 4 minutes of such spectacular music in just 2 days? Heck sometimes it takes me 2 days just to boot up my computer! Thomas -- awe-inspiring work as always!
> 
> Best wishes,
> Jay



This guy has mad skills. I am in awe.


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## handz (May 26, 2010)

HS is great sounding library indeed - this nice movie cello sound is problem to remade with samples and HS sounds like first lib that is close enough. 

But no Im not friend of so HUUUUGE libs. Yeah there is trend that developers want us to use 128 bit and 20 mic perspectives (and I see that even some users found that very usefull), but I simply don´t need that, don´t want that. When HS lite will be aviable I start to be really excited and probably buy it instantly. I understand that it is a PRO but why not to make it aviable to us lesser beings as well.


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## sadatayy (May 26, 2010)

random comments regarding all the action taht's taken place in this thread:


-Since this demo was posted on a neutral site (vi-controll not soundsonline) and posted by somebody OTHER than EWQL staff (TJB, Nick, etc) then i feel it is open game for anyone to express their opinion in any way. i agree it would be disrespectful to TJB for example if he were to post this demo as a demo of HS and not as a demo of his skills, it would be disrespectful and offtopic to talk about his skills of the mockup and the other instrument sounds like brass, choir, etc. but this was NOT posted by TJB and this is NOT soundsonline. this is a neutral post by a 3rd party and therefore has no inherent goal other than for people to commetn on whatever they want. so if i feel that the brass and horns should be the main focus of my posts about this demo since they stole the show. then that's what i will post 

-no disrespect to nick phoenix but you can't stop people's opinion and my opinion is that the strings are the weakest part of that demo period flat out. if you took the strings out and just played the demo alone, people would be convinced it's real. but due to the HS strings being there is what gives it away that it's a mockup. 
yes HS strings are a good leap forward but they're not the end all be all period. in fact they're even with LASS from all that i can see and all the demos that i can hear. each library has its ups and its downs. 

-on the other hand to defend Nick P., i think some of you are having unfair expectations, nick is just a normal man like you and i and he does everyone here a favor by coming here (he doesn't have to come here) and answering your questions and talking amongst you like equals. don't expect him to be this glossy image of perfection like the going eric persing joke entails. that's what we like about nick is that he's honest down to the bone and is down to earth like us. i've seen him outright say what's weak about EWQL SO Plat. for example, etc. he obviously takes it personally because he worked so hard on this library so let him be. 

-also though i must agree there was a huge amount of deception and evasion in the whole Play debacle but that's another story and shouldn't really be brought into this thread topic.

-i agree with the last comment by Handz. HS is great but really it's not a big enough leap over LASS FOR THE COMMON MAN to warrant such huge expenditures for new hard drives and new computers and such. it's a shame that HS Gold was killed just because as nick said they were afraid it would overshadow diamond like gold did to EWQL SO platinum. it's a shame because they lost a lot of sales from guys like me that doesn't want all the damn mic positions and all the 24bits samples.
fact of the matter is that lass and cinematic strings have been shown to be comparable and even favorable to HS in many isolated demos and are priced far far cheaper so in that regard i must side with LASS as the best value string set currently.

-one final note though, Nick you shouldn't take it too personally that what you perceive as midphase allegedly going around and demeaning HS because there's PLENTY of guys going around doing the same to LASS. it's just the name of the game. 
just look at some of the threads here like the recent one where the guy goes on and on about berating LASS for its "tuning issues" and how much better HS is in every way than "unprofessional LASS" and how no professional would ever use such a badly tuned library etc etc etc...........


----------



## chimuelo (May 26, 2010)

Excellent demos like this make one realize just how valuable time really is.
I for one enjoy getting my ass kicked like this. It makes me practice and motivates me.
I enjoy threads like this. It reveals those who truly love music.


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2010)

sadatayy @ Wed May 26 said:


> -because there's PLENTY of guys going around doing the same..



That is the worst reason to allow yourself to do something. We should all hold ourselves to a higher standard.


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## handz (May 26, 2010)

thankys sadatayy, Im glad Im not alone on this boat here. Dedicated HDD, multiple PCs... whoa..

I found it absolutely insane to just not made Lite verison of the lib because previous lite version was much more succesfull than full thing. What does it mean - majority of users want lite version. Simple. 

BTW - So it is official that tehre will be no "GOLD" version? If yes - damn!


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## JohnG (May 26, 2010)

Reading through this thread, I can hardly believe it.

Nick's samples are simply spectacular. I just bought HS and am barely scratching the surface; the sheer beauty of them already is producing lines that are leaps and bounds beyond anything I've been able to pull off previously, short of a very good live performance.

I think the demos speak for themselves, including Dave Coscina's quick improvisations.

I have a lot of libraries, like many here. HS is magic.


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## OB.one (May 26, 2010)

+ 1 with John

I made a test yesterday playing the strings part of the Imperial March with the stacatto and stacatissimo : i was reallt amazed with the result !
The balance between sections is really nicely done.

Need time to continue my tests and discovering all articulations.

It's just a pity to have 7200 drives and have to wait the patches to be loaded.
Also in Logic with Mac OSX the more am loading patches the more the amount of RAM increases EVEN when i unload the patches ...
Have to restart my computer !

Best

Olivier


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## Guy Bacos (May 26, 2010)

JohnG @ Wed May 26 said:


> Reading through this thread, I can hardly believe it.
> 
> Nick's samples are simply spectacular. I just bought HS and am barely scratching the surface; the sheer beauty of them already is producing lines that are leaps and bounds beyond anything I've been able to pull off previously, short of a very good live performance.
> 
> ...



Perhaps everybody's needs aren't the same, with all due respect to what's been presented.


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## Gerd Kaeding (May 26, 2010)

OB.one @ Wed May 26 said:


> Also in Logic with Mac OSX the more am loading patches the more the amount of RAM increases EVEN when i unload the patches ...
> Have to restart my computer !
> 
> Best
> ...



Hi Olivier ,

instead of restarting the Mac you can also "Repair Disk Permission" 
( Finder Menue -> Go -> Utilities -> Disk Utility -> Select your System Drive -> choose "Repair Disk Permissions" )

Although this will take several minutes ( ... depending on the amount of System RAM you might have enough time for a croissant and a Latte Macchiatto ... ) this will free your System Ram again .

You can leave your Logic session open during this operation , but you shouldn't touch it or play back your session .

Best

Gerd


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## sadatayy (May 26, 2010)

handz @ Wed May 26 said:


> thankys sadatayy, Im glad Im not alone on this boat here. Dedicated HDD, multiple PCs... whoa..
> 
> I found it absolutely insane to just not made Lite verison of the lib because previous lite version was much more succesfull than full thing. What does it mean - majority of users want lite version. Simple.
> 
> BTW - So it is official that tehre will be no "GOLD" version? If yes - damn!



nick said they will consider gold version in the future. 


they have to understand that like 10% of the market is profesional. 90% is prosumer or consumer. the masses want gold and the masses don't have 2 octocores sync'd together with raided SSD's like i'm sure nick and TJB use


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## JohnG (May 26, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ 26th May 2010 said:


> Perhaps everybody's needs aren't the same, with all due respect to what's been presented.



Of course people prefer different things. If people don't care for demos or libraries or whatever, of course they don't have to. That's what v.i. is all about, open and free discussion with no censorship.

I am almost shocked, however, at the level of scorn shown by some who don't seem to own the library. In some cases people seem to dislike EW or Nick or Doug. In other instances, some are speculating -- for example, about the system required.

You don't need to own a brand new computer to run the program. Period.

I am running it straight off the hard drive on which it ships and getting over 100 voices of just HS, even though I'm still working it into my template and I still am running LASS and EWQLSO Platinum (with 3 mic positions) as well.

I am going to get more drives, but that's because I can't wait to hear more of this absolutely beautiful-sounding library, not because it doesn't work or can't be used as-is. I have been running LASS and EWQLSO off multiple drives, so it's hardly surprising to me that a new library would need an extra disk drive or two.

Chris Axia wrote: "I am producing a song at the moment, all running on a previous generation Mac Pro 8 core with 14 Gb RAM, with PLAY in Bidule running 4 legato patches as well as the QL Steinway and some percussion. Logic meanwhile is hosting over a hundred sounds in Kontakt (LASS, Spitfire Perc etc) Omnisphere, Trillian and Ethno and various reverbs and it's all working very nicely. HS sits on a separate Seagate 7200 drive to the other samples. I will wait a while before I feel it necessary to buy an SSD. "

And yet I read people disparaging the library because of its resource requirements when they haven't even tested it or asked a user about it.

Other libraries showed very obvious defects -- very obvious -- when first released and then were updated. I didn't see them get pounded this hard.


----------



## sadatayy (May 26, 2010)

Gerd Kaeding @ Wed May 26 said:


> OB.one @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Also in Logic with Mac OSX the more am loading patches the more the amount of RAM increases EVEN when i unload the patches ...
> ...



is there any way to dump ram like this in pc windows 7???


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## OB.one (May 26, 2010)

Merci sadatayy :wink: 

Hope i won't eat too many croissants ...

I will try this next time !

Best Regards

Olivier


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## Gerd Kaeding (May 26, 2010)

sadatayy @ Wed May 26 said:


> Gerd Kaeding @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > OB.one @ Wed May 26 said:
> ...



I never used this tool here , and can not say how good or bad it is ,
but here's the link :

http://www.windows7download.com/win7-ram-memory-cleaner-and-optimizer/tckiswub.html (http://www.windows7download.com/win7-ra ... iswub.html)


Best ,

Gerd


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## madbulk (May 26, 2010)

JohnG @ Wed May 26 said:


> Other libraries showed very obvious defects -- very obvious -- when first released and then were updated. I didn't see them get pounded this hard.



There is little doubt in my mind that EW has the toughest time impressing this board. Partly the result of their greatness. Any great company faces this. 
("iPad? It's just a big iPod Touch! meh.")
Partly the cost of their business practices, none of which I begrudge them, as I've said before. It's just a natural and predictable effect.

Partly it's that Nick just needs to try to be more like Spectrum. If he would just be more like Spectrum, I'm tellin ya, great things might finally begin to happen for this poor guy.


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## sbkp (May 26, 2010)

handz @ Wed May 26 said:


> majority of users want lite version. Simple.



No, not exactly simple. The number of people pre-ordering the Gold version was miniscule compared to the number pre-ordering Diamond.


----------



## choc0thrax (May 26, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Wed May 26 said:


> choc0thrax @ Tue May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll take Zimmer's Journey to the Line over Goldsmith's entire oeuvre.
> ...



Thanks, I put a lot of effort into that one. I even went through the trouble of finding the correct spelling to 'oeuvre', and then I had to ask someone what oeuvre meant.


----------



## Guy Bacos (May 26, 2010)

I find it interesting how people are becoming more knowledgeable with sampling, and this has nothing to do with HS, just a general observation which is as valid for VSL as all other lib. Developers are going to be challenged more than ever, unlike 5-10 years ago, which is very healthy for the industry. I'm glad I'm not a developer in these times.


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## choc0thrax (May 26, 2010)

sbkp @ Wed May 26 said:


> handz @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > majority of users want lite version. Simple.
> ...



That's odd, how do you know that?


----------



## Tanuj Tiku (May 26, 2010)

JohnG @ Wed May 26 said:


> Reading through this thread, I can hardly believe it.
> 
> Nick's samples are simply spectacular. I just bought HS and am barely scratching the surface; the sheer beauty of them already is producing lines that are leaps and bounds beyond anything I've been able to pull off previously, short of a very good live performance.
> 
> ...




+1 to that. HS does sound like a great library - I went to the web site and checked out the Naked demos - they sound great. I was hoping to hear some staccato - so I have downloaded the video with stac. expalined. Gonna watch it now.


I agree that people have been too hard on EW. They have had problems with Play (including myself) but HS seems like a good string library. I am going to have to think about how to fit it in my template with Vienna though.


I am waiting to hear some user demos - its a lot of fun!


Tanuj.


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## sadatayy (May 26, 2010)

sbkp @ Wed May 26 said:


> handz @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > majority of users want lite version. Simple.
> ...



wow you have detailed knowledge of EWQL's private sales records? that's impressive. :roll:


----------



## José Herring (May 26, 2010)

sadatayy @ Wed May 26 said:


> sbkp @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > handz @ Wed May 26 said:
> ...



He works for EW. Don't be a prat.

I'm quite dismayed at the level of disrespect that crops on on this board from time to time. C'mon guys. You can do better than this.

Jose


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## handz (May 26, 2010)

There is another diamond other than Kirk Hunters lib?! *Curious*


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## choc0thrax (May 26, 2010)

Let's see those sales records. Pics or it didn't happen!


Handz I think platinum changed to diamond maybe? Not sure.


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## midphase (May 26, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Wed May 26 said:


> Thanks, I put a lot of effort into that one. I even went through the trouble of finding the correct spelling to 'oeuvre', and then I had to ask someone what oeuvre meant.



I think that's hilarious...and you caused me to have to go and look up what oeuvre means.

FWIW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhoa7oWPPhk

(gets really good at :45 in).


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## Dave Connor (May 26, 2010)

Just listened again. Some lovely stuff in there with everything well handled from writing to orchestration - and in two days that's all done!? Wow. I would have liked the strings up more in the mix in many places but they obviously sound very good.


----------



## Hannes_F (May 26, 2010)

JohnG @ Wed May 26 said:


> I am almost shocked, however, at the level of scorn shown by some who don't seem to own the library.
> 
> ....
> 
> Other libraries showed very obvious defects -- very obvious -- when first released and then were updated. I didn't see them get pounded this hard.



I needed to look up scorn in the dictionary.

John, as I appreciate your work and opinions very highly I wonder ... I could not find much scorn here. I think the first demos of HS were received very positive, also the first user demos. Now with this one a bigger part has said they are wowed but a certain part of the comments said it left something to desired. Is that already scorn?

I don't think there is a conspiracy going on against EW. Most here are clients (me too).


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## sadatayy (May 26, 2010)

if it's true that diamond pre-orders was more than gold, all that means is exactly what i said because only pros pre-order. a regular consumer/prosumer usually doesn't have the money or interest to pre-order something before they know everything about it and see tons of demos and basically sit on it for a good long while. yes there's many prosumers on this site that pre-ordered it but people on this are are the fanatical/elite prosumers/consumers. a normal consumer/prosumer usually isn't an active member of sites like this otherwise if that were the case this site would have thousands of more members and be far more active. 
so the point is, all the industry pros pre-ordered diamond, that's not a big surprise seeing as how they have the money to spend on it. 

but a few months down the line i guarantee gold will have eclipsed diamond sales due to all the consumer/prosumer market finally getting in on it just like how LASS initially was purchased mostly by all the top pros and prosumers but then a year down the line everybody and their grandma is using it now including hobbyists etc. 

that would be the same case for hollywood strings gold but now EWQL lost out on that entire consumer/prosumer market.


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## zvenx (May 26, 2010)

sbkp @ Wed May 26 said:


> handz @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > majority of users want lite version. Simple.
> ...



That might be because ppl who can afford Diamond have a lot more expendable income than those who would buy the cheaper version.


For instance I make most of my money from music production and I am quite willing to pre-order Nuendo 5 without even trying it, whilst someone who doesn't earn as much from music as I do, may want to try cubase 5 before they upgrade from Cubase 3/4..

For me I can easier justify the blind preorder vs others earning less or not as dependent on music as much for their living?

maybe?

rsp


----------



## handz (May 26, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Wed May 26 said:


> Let's see those sales records. Pics or it didn't happen!
> 
> 
> Handz I think platinum changed to diamond maybe? Not sure.




But then Gold did not ruined Platinum sales as "they" were saying. 
I want to knowww


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## zvenx (May 26, 2010)

I think I was saying the same thing sadatayy is saying, although I didn't see his post till after I posted mine.
rsp


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## zvenx (May 26, 2010)

I love how this library sounds.....but even if I could justify the cost of the library, I can't justify the cost of the added resources to run the library. I rarely if ever do purely orchestrated music.....If there was a gold I would definitely be interested. Less cost/less resources.

rsp


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## sadatayy (May 26, 2010)

zvenx @ Wed May 26 said:


> I think I was saying the same thing sadatayy is saying, although I didn't see his post till after I posted mine.
> rsp



yep we said same things o-[][]-o


----------



## Ashermusic (May 26, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Wed May 26 said:


> Ashermusic @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > choc0thrax @ Tue May 25 said:
> ...



That's French for eggs, right?


----------



## choc0thrax (May 26, 2010)

midphase @ Wed May 26 said:


> choc0thrax @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, I put a lot of effort into that one. I even went through the trouble of finding the correct spelling to 'oeuvre', and then I had to ask someone what oeuvre meant.
> ...



Yeah that's okay sounding but still pales in comparison to Journey to the Line. Check this out: You take Journey to the Line http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG9-j3eevL4 and as soon as it reaches 3:32 you press play on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUCRZzhbHH0 (mute the sound on this video). 

This basically sums up what I do in the off hours when I'm not posting.


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## sadatayy (May 26, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Wed May 26 said:


> midphase @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > choc0thrax @ Wed May 26 said:
> ...



ha..i actually did it. it was epic. :lol:


----------



## Patrick de Caumette (May 26, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Wed May 26 said:


> choc0thrax @ Tue May 25 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll take Zimmer's Journey to the Line over Goldsmith's entire oeuvre.
> ...



+1


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## midphase (May 26, 2010)

"Check this out: You take Journey to the Line http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG9-j3eevL4 and as soon as it reaches 3:32 you press play on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUCRZzhbHH0 (mute the sound on this video). "

Fucking brilliant....need to Tweet that one right away!


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## choc0thrax (May 26, 2010)

sadatayy @ Wed May 26 said:


> choc0thrax @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > midphase @ Wed May 26 said:
> ...



Yeah it is. Normally I use the the cue in Itunes along with the video instead of playing two videos and it seems to line up better.


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## Patrick de Caumette (May 26, 2010)

handz @ Wed May 26 said:


> thankys sadatayy, Im glad Im not alone on this boat here. Dedicated HDD, multiple PCs... whoa..
> 
> I found it absolutely insane to just not made Lite verison of the lib because previous lite version was much more succesfull than full thing. What does it mean - majority of users want lite version. Simple.
> 
> BTW - So it is official that tehre will be no "GOLD" version? If yes - damn!



You guys crack me up!

What do you expect?

This is about emulating an ORCHESTRAL STRING SECTION.
The complaint that it takes too demanding of a computer setup is ridiculous.
Yes, in 5/10 years it will run off a flashdrive (or whatever the nu thing will be called) but for now, if you want the cutting edge technology, you gotta be willing to do what it takes to run it.

Physical modeling is not quite there yet...


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## sadatayy (May 26, 2010)

Patrick de Caumette @ Wed May 26 said:


> handz @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > thankys sadatayy, Im glad Im not alone on this boat here. Dedicated HDD, multiple PCs... whoa..
> ...



the point is none of that would of mattered if they listened to the demands of customers and released a gold version because that would not require all this 'new technology' you speak of


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## Patrick de Caumette (May 26, 2010)

As much as I think Nick's handling of criticism is less than mature, you guys should try to get in his shoes for a change.

And it shouldn't be to hard to relate, since we all go through a similar situation when we submit work to clients.

We work our butt off and then await anxiously for the verdict...

It never feels good when the client rejects our work.

And most of the time, we spend from a day to a few weeks on a project.
Now imagine having spent over a year, or two or three on one project and having people pissing all over it...
(There is some ground breaking stuff in there people!)

That can't feel god.

That being said, there's got to be a better way to address criticism (some of it justified) than the "it's not worth it" line... :roll:


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## Craig Sharmat (May 26, 2010)

from what i read you don't have to install the whole lib so you can create your own gold version.


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## Patrick de Caumette (May 26, 2010)

sadatayy @ Wed May 26 said:


> Patrick de Caumette @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > handz @ Wed May 26 said:
> ...



The lib just came out, and you're having a fit because you don't have a system that can handle it?
Guess what?
You're just gonna have to wait until they come up with a lighter version, or until you can afford a new computer.
Period.


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## handz (May 26, 2010)

Patrick de Caumette @ Wed May 26 said:


> handz @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > thankys sadatayy, Im glad Im not alone on this boat here. Dedicated HDD, multiple PCs... whoa..
> ...



What are you talking about? 
It takes extremly big setup because the style how is it made - 24 bit and very much MIC positions + who knows what else. Without this the lib will be X times(where x are the mic positions) smaller and easier to handle.

OMG it is NOT about that I dont have system to run it - its about that i dont want lib that will eat almost all of my system resources. And I dont want to use multiple computers at once. 

Craig: That would be too much luxury solution...


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## Nick Phoenix (May 26, 2010)

A Gold version of HS is impossible because we need to make the Current version all it can be before thinking about Gold. It was purely a decision based on exhaustion. I'm not a fan of trickle down economics, but in this libraries case, it is best that we iron out all issues and explore all possibilities in the big version before building the Gold version. It might be a while. I also don't know what mic positions to put in Gold because one day I prefer one and the next day I like another. Building the over the top version first, benefits everyone in the end.

About PLAY. I am often confused with EW as a company and Doug or others. I've been pretty straightforward about PLAY and have no connections to any censorship that happened. I've been PLAYs biggest critic over at EW over the years. I think all their hard work is really paying off. You also have to realize that software is tough. Sometimes Kontakt when using Symphobia effects behaves very strangely for me and only gives me 40 voices. For the vast majority Kontakt is very stable and powerful. Does my experience make Kontakt bad software? No it doesn't. Kontakt also locks mac memory making PLAY the second wheel. This makes us look bad when really, it's just an unfortunate clash of the power hungry apps.

I'm not looking for praise here. I get enough of that at sounds online. I just want to be able to talk honestly. Some of you just won't let me do that. And if you are friends with a developer and post dozens of positive posts about his product and dozens of cautionary and somewhat negative posts about my competing product that he doesn't own, that stinks.
There is nothing good or honest about that. I hope everyone will see that LASS and HS are different takes, both very valid, and go from there. And when I am called a snake oil salesman, I wil always freak out. That's not me.


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## lux (May 26, 2010)

Patrick de Caumette @ Wed May 26 said:


> +
> 
> The lib just came out, and you're having a fit because you don't have a system that can handle it?
> Guess what?
> ...



well the fact the library is extremely demanding cannot be denied, even with the most favour to the library and its makers. Expecially considering that nobody will just place a few strings lines, but you have a full orchestra and more madness to run along with it.

Its a lib which is ahead of probably one or two years. That doesnt mean that it cannot be used today, but that it has a good influence on the number of computers and stuff you need to setup to use it actually.

More easy if you have already a complete computer chain running in your room, uneasy if you have more of a contained and more classic approach machines-wise imo.


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## Patrick de Caumette (May 26, 2010)

handz @ Wed May 26 said:


> Patrick de Caumette @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > handz @ Wed May 26 said:
> ...



without this, the lib wouldn't sound the way it does.
What's so extraordinary about 24bits?! :roll: 

This wasn't meant to be a swiss army knive.
The majority of users are not working professionals.
And you seem to miss the fpoint that the mike positions give you extra flexibility in terms of production/mixing :roll: 

If you don't like the concept, just move on... or wait a few years for the lite version...


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## handz (May 26, 2010)

Nick - use that mic position tah is most similar to EWQL GOLD mikes - easy choice


Pete - It will be still lib with all its functions, articulations etc + cheaper and lighter. Not so many mixing options but hey - many great libs are recorded in ONE position and its sufficient, so no problem for me, its just a good bonus, notmust have function, not for me, not fore users who are happy with gold etc...


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## noiseboyuk (May 26, 2010)

Nice post, Nick - I know you don't need praise or validation from me or anyone, but it's great to see a little straight talking. No product or company is perfect, I always appreciate being in the loop and honest... I see it as a strength.

EWQL has some of the best libs out there, HS looks and sounds absolutely incredible. Without being sycophantic, I really appreciate the developers input on these boards - I think it really can make a difference to purchasing decisions, actually.

FWIW, when the time is right, my own personal wishlist for Gold would be 16 bit, 1 mic position, all articulations.


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## germancomponist (May 26, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Wed May 26 said:


> ... I also don't know what mic positions to put in Gold because one day I prefer one and the next day I like another. Building the over the top version first, benefits everyone in the end... .



I understand this to 100% and do not want to be in your skin. o/~ 

Nick, if I would be allowed, I would suggest: Do a 16bit version, with perhaps 220.- € price advantage?


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## choc0thrax (May 26, 2010)

germancomponist @ Wed May 26 said:


> Nick Phoenix @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > ... I also don't know what mic positions to put in Gold because one day I prefer one and the next day I like another. Building the over the top version first, benefits everyone in the end... .
> ...



I've often fantasized about being in his skin, I think he'd make a good light autumn jacket since it's made out of such thin skin.. get it? /\~O 

On a less serious note I think Gold should be all arts, 16 bit, one mic position and $999.00


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Wed May 26 said:


> I'm not looking for praise here. I get enough of that at sounds online. I just want to be able to talk honestly. Some of you just won't let me do that. And if you are friends with a developer and post dozens of positive posts about his product and dozens of cautionary and somewhat negative posts about my competing product that he doesn't own, that stinks.
> There is nothing good or honest about that. I hope everyone will see that LASS and HS are different takes, both very valid, and go from there. And when I am called a snake oil salesman, I wil always freak out. That's not me.



This is only a good place to talk honestly if you are one of the "right" developers or have the "right" opinions about certain products. 

Not to say that there are not some open minds here, because there are, but frequently they are drowned out by the noise of the fanboys.


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## gsilbers (May 26, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Wed May 26 said:


> About PLAY. I ing Symphobia effects behaves very strangely for me and only gives me 40 voices. For the vast majority Kontakt is very stable and powerful. Does my experience make Kontakt bad software? No it doesn't. Kontakt also locks mac memory making PLAY the second wheel. This makes us look bad when really, it's just an unfortunate clash of the power hungry apps.
> 
> .



in theory, a 64 bit-non memory server- play and 64 bit non memory server kontakt would fix a lot of issues regaring play (and kontakt) right? 
(under mac leopard)


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## wqaxsz (May 26, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Wed May 26 said:


> Ashermusic @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > choc0thrax @ Tue May 25 said:
> ...



ah, ok you meant œuvre !


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## dcoscina (May 26, 2010)

I appreciate Nick's post. Every developer has their own style and personality. It's not right to superimpose Eric's personality onto Nick or Gary Garritan or Doug Rogers or vise versa. 

I have been treated very well by all of these developers. Kirk Hunter is very hands on and responds to emails with fixes for his stuff. Eric is terrific. I dunno, maybe it's just me but I have had no hassles with any of these guys....except the guys at Kurzweil. They seem a little snotty.


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## Christian Marcussen (May 26, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Wed May 26 said:


> Nick Phoenix @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not looking for praise here. I get enough of that at sounds online. I just want to be able to talk honestly. Some of you just won't let me do that. And if you are friends with a developer and post dozens of positive posts about his product and dozens of cautionary and somewhat negative posts about my competing product that he doesn't own, that stinks.
> ...



You keep saying that. Examples?

I find the majority of people here are pretty balanced in their opinions.


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## givemenoughrope (May 26, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Wed May 26 said:


> I'm not looking for praise here. I get enough of that at sounds online. I just want to be able to talk honestly. Some of you just won't let me do that. And if you are friends with a developer and post dozens of positive posts about his product and dozens of cautionary and somewhat negative posts about my competing product that he doesn't own, that stinks.
> There is nothing good or honest about that. I hope everyone will see that LASS and HS are different takes, both very valid, and go from there. And when I am called a snake oil salesman, I wil always freak out. That's not me.



Instead of actually talking about HS, you came on here to pick at midphase's observations, painted yourself insulted and hurt and then fired back about how much we all owe to you. No one said that your product wasn't worth it. It sounds incredible. We just want to know how it will work with our current arsenals before dropping $3k for the library and an SSD among other things.

Getting back to the library, couldn't we control tuning via PLAY's scripting eventually? That seems like it would be a possibility. 

Also, what about dividing up the library across drives? Any working strategy on that for those who don't have SSDs yet?

Anyone have any HS/LASS blended demos up yet?


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2010)

Christian Marcussen @ Wed May 26 said:


> Ashermusic @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > Nick Phoenix @ Wed May 26 said:
> ...



I have gone through and quoted posts numerous times when discussing this before and I am not willing to take the time again. The majority, as you say, are but unfortunately those who are not frequently post the most frequently. 

I can tell you that a number of participants have commented to me either on the phone or in PMs that they share my perception of this but do not wish to go public with it because they do not want to cause friction. I would be wise to follow their example but the unfairness of it gets my hackles up.


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## Audun Jemtland (May 26, 2010)

What ever happened to TJ's supercomputer of 70+ GB RAM? Ever went through with that? You said you wanted to build one computer and asked if it would hold it...think it was about 2 years ago

AJ


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## JohnG (May 26, 2010)

givemenoughrope @ 26th May 2010 said:


> We just want to know how it will work with our current arsenals before dropping $3k for the library and an SSD among other things.



yes -- on this thread and another one on this forum I went through this. I'm using HS on the drive it came on. 



givemenoughrope @ 26th May 2010 said:


> Also, what about dividing up the library across drives? Any working strategy on that for those who don't have SSDs yet?



Others have posted that you can spread the library out across drives. I am not sure if they have to be RAID 0 to do that or not.


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## givemenoughrope (May 26, 2010)

Is there an actual list of which files point to which sections or something in the ballpark?

John, how does it blend with LASS if you've tried that at all?

thanks


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## Frederick Russ (May 26, 2010)

givemenoughrope @ Wed May 26 said:


> John, how does it blend with LASS if you've tried that at all?



Wondered that myself. I'm sure it can be done - blending HS & LASS, although HS already has its own divisi and was built from the ground up to be self-sufficient as a stand-alone string library. I am curious too though regarding layering lass first chair solo strings with HS. 

So many string options these days - good times.


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## synthetic (May 26, 2010)

How about we don't talk about LASS in an official HS demo thread and vice versa? Make a new thread for "LASS versus HS," or post in one of the billion other ones.

Here's the professional answer: buy both. And two others. 

Back on topic, the demo is stunning as always, Thomas. I've listened a dozen times and I keep forgetting to critique the samples because the composition and orchestration are so great. Maybe that's the mark of true realism in samples, you don't even notice it after a while. But it shows that the strings can sound small and sound big. Great stuff.


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## sadatayy (May 26, 2010)

synthetic @ Wed May 26 said:


> How about we don't talk about LASS in an official HS demo thread and vice versa? Make a new thread for "LASS versus HS," or post in one of the billion other ones.
> 
> 
> .



because this is not an "official" thread as you claim. this thread was made by hannes_F to my knowledge he has no affiliation with HS. 

as i said in previous post. it is very disrespectful to post other products of competition in an "official" thread i.e. if nick or TJB were to make a thread posting their stuff. but this thread is in a neutral site (vi-control) posted by neutral parties open to neutral discussion so i feel that lass or anything else is OK to be posted here because we're all grown men discussing products here. if you want to have rules then go to soundsonline where no LASS discussion is allowed


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## JohnG (May 26, 2010)

A shower of riches indeed! As I think TJB's various demos illuminate.

LASS and HS complement each other, to my ears; very different sound, which I think can be heard in the demos. 

Blending is always a tough topic because some guys perceive a nice sound that to others sounds too fat / muddy / cluttered. If by "blend," one means "plays in unison," i haven't tried that because I almost never do that. If "blend" means violins from HS and violas from LASS, that is working for me, with a number of caveats:

1. HS is so huge that I am just starting to use it. Because I'm writing to deadline, I take the first thing and just use it. I am not methodically sifting the library, as I will do when I have the time. 

2. Also, I'm not at all clear on which are my favourite mic positions yet, though I do like using more than one;

3. I am EQing LASS a fair amount, so it is not the out of the box sound;

4. Haven't yet tried the solo LASS instruments in unison with HS, which might be an interesting experiment -- hard to predict the outcome;

5. Haven't yet really plumbed HS' divisi.


Because the HS strings were recorded in a studio, not a big hall like EWQLSO Platinum, they are closer cousins than EW's older strings and LASS were.

Synthetic I am sympathetic but I do think these questions are natural. 

I am thrilled with HS.


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## givemenoughrope (May 26, 2010)

John,

very good to hear. I'm not sure that I would layer the two in unison either since they seem like almost all-in-one solutions. I meant more like using the FC, shorts from LASS with the legato from HS or some variation. 

eager to hear what you think of HS' divisi.

thanks


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## Hannes_F (May 26, 2010)

sadatayy @ Wed May 26 said:


> hannes_F to my knowledge he has no affiliation with HS.



For the records - no. I own quite some EW libraries as a client and also had a very nice mail exchange with TJ about violin technique before he went to the US but that is all.

Nevertheless maybe I have anticipated their own announcement of this demo here, so a certain decency in comparing to different products would still be in order, methinks.


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## givemenoughrope (May 26, 2010)

Thomas,

eager to hear more (articulations)!
thanks


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## Marius Masalar (May 26, 2010)

"If you simply embrace samples as another tool and instrument, where the ultimate goal isn't to create something that sounds like a real orchestra, but rather something that conveys your musical ideas in a tasteful, musical and expressive way, then you stand to gain a lot more from it than if you obsess over the insignificant details of perceived realism."

^ I'm thrilled that someone with Thomas' skill, craft, and credibility came out and said that. It's something that I identify with very closely so it's encouraging to hear when one of the industry's finest mock-up artists is on the same page. Thank you.


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## givemenoughrope (May 26, 2010)

Thomas, 

the measured tremolo sounds great. (I wonder if these really eat up the voice count or just level out..?)

thanks


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## noiseboyuk (May 26, 2010)

I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to explain why the measured tremolos don't sound real, but they sound absolutely fantastic to me....


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## José Herring (May 26, 2010)

Thomas_J @ Wed May 26 said:


> If you simply embrace samples as another tool and instrument, where the ultimate goal isn't to create something that sounds like a real orchestra, but rather something that conveys your musical ideas in a tasteful, musical and expressive way, then you stand to gain a lot more from it than if you obsess over the insignificant details of perceived realism.
> 
> Thomas



Well said. 
Jose


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## handz (May 26, 2010)

josejherring @ Wed May 26 said:


> Thomas_J @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > If you simply embrace samples as another tool and instrument, where the ultimate goal isn't to create something that sounds like a real orchestra, but rather something that conveys your musical ideas in a tasteful, musical and expressive way, then you stand to gain a lot more from it than if you obsess over the insignificant details of perceived realism.
> ...



Very well said


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## Guy Bacos (May 26, 2010)

Thomas_J @ Wed May 26 said:


> If you simply embrace samples as another tool and instrument, where the ultimate goal isn't to create something that sounds like a real orchestra, but rather something that conveys your musical ideas in a tasteful, musical and expressive way, then you stand to gain a lot more from it than if you obsess over the insignificant details of perceived realism.
> 
> Best,
> Thomas



Well, yes and no. The difference is, a real orchestra can give you so much more expression, so it is normal to use it as the ultimate model and constantly strive to get closer to that.


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Wed May 26 said:


> Thomas_J @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > If you simply embrace samples as another tool and instrument, where the ultimate goal isn't to create something that sounds like a real orchestra, but rather something that conveys your musical ideas in a tasteful, musical and expressive way, then you stand to gain a lot more from it than if you obsess over the insignificant details of perceived realism.
> ...



Thomas is right. I have been preaching this for a while: worry less about making it sound real, more about making it sound good.


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## Guy Bacos (May 26, 2010)

This is basic knowledge, I hope this isn't new for you Jay. But I'm saying we must use the real thing as a guide to improve. I have been doing this for a long time and I think I've been doing something right.


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Wed May 26 said:


> This is basic knowledge, I hope this isn't new for you Jay. But I'm saying we must use the real thing as a guide to improve. I have been doing this for a long time and I think I've been doing something right.



The word Thomas used however was "obsess" and for many here that is accurate. I cannot speak for you or your career. That is a judgement only you can make. 

I don't think in terms of real much at all and also "I have been doing this for a long time and I think I've been doing something right."


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## Guy Bacos (May 26, 2010)

Fair enough, I will speak for myself only. It is my obsession that has made me improve enormously. There you go! Having said that, I do exactly what Thomas is preaching and I'm sure he knows it and also understand what I'm saying here. The key is a just balance between the 2. So I'm not contracting him, just adding something. One does not interfere with the other. It's not like you have to choose between A and B. You could work with A while using B to improve some aspects.


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Wed May 26 said:


> Fair enough, I will speak for myself only. It is my obsession that has made me improve enormously. There you go! Having said that, I do exactly what Thomas is preaching and I'm sure he knows it and also understand what I'm saying here. The key is a just balance between the 2.



I don't really know you as a composer, only as a mockup artist, which you are very good at. If you feel it has helped you grow as a composer, that is good and I take you at your word for it.

My main growth as a composer came when largely I was composing for real players, before samples were such a big factor so maybe that is why my perspective is different. That said, there is a lot of bad composition going around that is nonetheless well manipulated by samples so I am less sure that the agreed goal of "balance between the 2" is happening.


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## Guy Bacos (May 26, 2010)

Ok, you have your opinion and I have mine. We'll agree to disagree. 

Cheers! o-[][]-o


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Wed May 26 said:


> Ok, you have your opinion and I have mine. We'll agree to disagree.
> 
> Cheers! o-[][]-o



Works for me, monsieur.


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## Peter Alexander (May 26, 2010)

> I'm not looking for praise here. I get enough of that at sounds online. I just want to be able to talk honestly. Some of you just won't let me do that. And if you are friends with a developer and post dozens of positive posts about his product and dozens of cautionary and somewhat negative posts about my competing product that he doesn't own, that stinks.
> 
> There is nothing good or honest about that. I hope everyone will see that LASS and HS are different takes, both very valid, and go from there. And when I am called a snake oil salesman, I will always freak out. That's not me.



As an unrecognized investor in your work considering the money my company spends promoting your libraries, I'm responding to your above points.

1. There is nobody not letting you say what you want, including when in a fit of anger you told a customer on this forum how to have sex with a CD. Which, I might add, was a low point in customer relationship building, no matter how much you were being razzed.

2. Excluding pianos, what other company directly competes with your PLAY libraries especially now that the prices have been lowered? No one. There are a group of string libraries out of which Hollywood Strings is a new competing entrant. You've launched this library at a time when not only the country is in bad shape, so is the film/tv community, hence the new attempt to start a composers union. 

So people are asking harder questions! 

3. As a new entry, you have to work harder right now because dollars are committed, in the US, people have just paid taxes and are waiting for refunds, and the stock markeòÏ   Ô…œÏ   Ô…Ï   Ô…òÏ   Ô…óÏ   Ô…ôÏ   Ô…õÏ   Ô…öÏ   Ô…÷Ï   Ô…øÏ   Ô…ùÏ   Ô…úÏ   Ô…ûÏ   Ô…üÏ   Ô…ýÏ   Ô…þÏ   Ô…ÿÏ   Ô† Ï   Ô†Ï   Ô†Ï   Ô†Ï   Ô†Ï   Ô†Ï   Ô†Ï   Ô†Ï   Ô†Ï   Ô†	Ï   Ô†
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## sadatayy (May 26, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Wed May 26 said:


> Nick Phoenix @ Wed May 26 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not looking for praise here. I get enough of that at sounds online. I just want to be able to talk honestly. Some of you just won't let me do that. And if you are friends with a developer and post dozens of positive posts about his product and dozens of cautionary and somewhat negative posts about my competing product that he doesn't own, that stinks.
> ...




wow. best most accurate and most commendable post of the entire thread.


>8o


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## lux (May 26, 2010)

do you have more fun if you have sex with a Blu-Ray instead?


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## noiseboyuk (May 26, 2010)

lux @ Thu May 27 said:


> do you have more fun if you have sex with a Blu-Ray instead?



Up to 4x the fun, I believe.


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## IvanP (May 26, 2010)

Thomas or Nick, could you share how that piece was programmed in terms of bowing?

excluding the spiccati, I would like to know how many patches you had to load to achieve that balance between legato lines, up bow, down bow, fast ascending/descending licks, if it's a matter of how you play while sequencing it or if there are tons of kswtches /patches used.

Thks 

Ivan


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## Nick Phoenix (May 27, 2010)

Time for a change. I'm not really sure what you mean. We just set out to build a new standard in strings. We just assume the sales will happen automatically if it's a good product and lives up to our expectations.There are a few demos and tutorials already. Doug is a good business man, but he never mentioned sales angles or any that stuff when we were making HS. It was all about the sound and abilities. Now it is out, but we are still improving the programs and when it is all up to snuff I suppose we can concentrate on selling it, but I will have moved on to something else by then. Doug will do a good job of that Im sure. He's no fool. And yes, eventually well have a gold version. Adding Sean Murphy and Thomas Bergersen to the team put this library in another league than it would have been, if I had done it alone. I'm lucky to have gotten them on board. I'm not worried really. Peter, you should talk to Doug about selling this library, which people assume needs a super computer. It doesn't. It runs fine on fast computers and it's only 10 percent of it that is mega power hungry. I did my demos on 2 normal macs. 
I'm kind of a crazy unconventional person. You'll never figure me out from what I post on a forum. And I have a lot of flaws, but I do know we did most everything right with HS. I will try not to implode on the forums too often, but if I do, you gotta just laugh. When I told all those Republicans to f off and not buy my products, years ago on a forum, sales went up. I have recently joined the Republican Party and begun digging for crude oil in the backyard. Go figure.


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## IvanP (May 27, 2010)

Wow!

now I'm sold 

You only need to tell me it'll work on a single Mac with 16 Gig ram :mrgreen:


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## Steve Martin (May 27, 2010)

Hi Thomas,

fantastic demo! Sounds just brilliant!

Is it possible for you to give us some details about the Brass samples you used?.

As I said before, but I will say it differently this time - WOW!


best,


Steve :D


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## JohnG (May 27, 2010)

I don't bounce, so can't address that.

From auditioning them, the lite patches sound good to me personally, quite a bit better than the EWQLSO strings I've been using for years. And they are not so 'lite' actually -- quite a bit richer than what I've been using for the same thing. They don't use 13 voices per mic position per note.


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## givemenoughrope (May 27, 2010)

13?! 

By bounce, I just meant the final product.


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## JohnG (May 27, 2010)

sorry, I misunderstood.

I hope they are good enough! I am going to use some of them on this movie.


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## Vision (May 27, 2010)

Wow, this is just a fun track.  Thanks for sharing this "demo" TJ. I'd love to see your templates man. Great stuff.


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## noiseboyuk (May 27, 2010)

Vision @ Thu May 27 said:


> I'd love to see your templates man.



I bet you say that to all the composers....


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## Vision (May 27, 2010)

:lol:


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## Peter Alexander (May 27, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Thu May 27 said:


> Time for a change. I'm not really sure what you mean. We just set out to build a new standard in strings. We just assume the sales will happen automatically if it's a good product and lives up to our expectations.



Under "normal" economic conditions, that's how it used to work - sales automatically happening. But we're not under normal conditions right now, and based on what's happening globally, we may not get back to what we remembered as "normal" for some time. 

Consequently, your expectations are from yesterday. Today, you have to work harder to get the sale. When money is tight, people really want to be sure the first time before they spend a lot of money.



> ...which people assume needs a super computer. It doesn't. It runs fine on fast computers and it's only 10 percent of it that is mega power hungry. I did my demos on 2 normal macs.



The assumption came from EW and the manual which emphasizes SSD drives in a hardware RAID 0 config. This is why I've been asking, for nearly two months now, to give us information that explained how Hollywood Strings could be setup to run on a fast computer using 7200RPM hard drives. 

As a co-producer you are the perfect person to settle those issues before they become an unnecessary squall which creates the kind of "buzz" that stalls sales instead of builds them.

I strongly suggest to you again, that you start a thread on Hollywood Strings and answer the most basic questions from potential customers. May 31 is looming for people who want to take advantage of the $200 opening order savings.


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## givemenoughrope (May 27, 2010)

+1 to above


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## Nick Phoenix (May 27, 2010)

Peter, the library runs fine on normal computers. I am completely unqualified to answer all kins of technical questions. And I am still working on the first program update.


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## Peter Alexander (May 27, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Thu May 27 said:


> Peter, the library runs fine on normal computers. I am completely unqualified to answer all kins of technical questions. And I am still working on the first program update.



Then just tell people what your system setup is for Hollywood Strings on two Macs. I'm sure a lot of folks here would be genuinely interested in reading that.


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## Nick Phoenix (May 27, 2010)

2 older quad cores with 12 gigs of ram each and 7200 drives, rme sound cards running PLAY standalone will get you pretty far with Hollywood Strings.


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## midphase (May 27, 2010)

Does PLAY access all the available RAM? Is this a Standalone function only or will that also work when PLAY is used as an AU?

Also, I assume that right now to run with that configuration one would need 2 iLok authorizations? I know from the other thread that you guys are working on a network enabled solution...but as of right now that is not possible or is there a quick and dirty workaround while you guys figure out the more elegant solution?


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## Peter Alexander (May 27, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Thu May 27 said:


> 2 older quad cores with 12 gigs of ram each and 7200 drives, rme sound cards running PLAY standalone will get you pretty far with Hollywood Strings.



That's _very_ useful.

Out of curiousity, why did you decide to stay with 12GB instead of expanding to 24 or 32 within the same system? Did you see this as a polyphony vs. RAM issue?


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## lux (May 27, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Thu May 27 said:


> 2 older quad cores with 12 gigs of ram each and 7200 drives, rme sound cards running PLAY standalone will get you pretty far with Hollywood Strings.



does it include the rest of the orchestra and stuff or are the two computer needed to run only HS?


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## NYC Composer (May 27, 2010)

lux @ Thu May 27 said:


> Nick Phoenix @ Thu May 27 said:
> 
> 
> > 2 older quad cores with 12 gigs of ram each and 7200 drives, rme sound cards running PLAY standalone will get you pretty far with Hollywood Strings.
> ...



My thought exactly, upon reading Nick's response.


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## ChrisAxia (May 28, 2010)

midphase @ Thu May 27 said:


> Does PLAY access all the available RAM? Is this a Standalone function only or will that also work when PLAY is used as an AU?



Hi Kays,

I'm still on Leopard and Play does indeed access all available ram when used within Bidule which was a very pleasant surprise!

~Chris


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## Tanuj Tiku (May 28, 2010)

TJB,

I am just in love with this piece of music - I am listening to it everywhere - in my car, in the studio - at home! 

Its got such a wonderful positive feeling to it. Its very John Williams inspired but yet you take it in your own direction! 

And its also the best mock up I have heard till now - period. And its not just the mock up - I think its just damn good music - well orchestrated - good structure - modulations etc.

Strings sound good too - and as soon as I have some extra cash lying around - I will try to pick up HS. Not yet though because I already have the complete VSL strings. 

Its really an eye-opener in terms of what can be done with samples. Programming and Production is top-notch.


Good luck!


Best,

Tanuj.


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## Nick Phoenix (May 28, 2010)

NYC Composer @ Thu May 27 said:


> lux @ Thu May 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Nick Phoenix @ Thu May 27 said:
> ...



I only used strings in my demos. Plus harp or Celeste. I was going for the exposed thing. I'm still building my template. More on systems later.


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## NYC Composer (May 28, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Fri May 28 said:


> NYC Composer @ Thu May 27 said:
> 
> 
> > lux @ Thu May 27 said:
> ...



Clarification is really helpful. Thanks, Nick.


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## Steve Martin (May 31, 2010)

Hi to the forum,

I have really enjoyed all the demos of HS. All very well done and great sounding.

I am hoping that it is possible to hear some demo's with just the slurred runs patch that was used in the first HS tutorial? I believe it is the patch that only occurs in the 1st and 2nd violins. It was used to play a musical demonstration of that patch that was in the style of something akin to "Flight of the Bumble-Bee" by Rimsky Korsakov in the tutorial that I mentioned just before.

Thanks if someone is able to help out here. I'd love to hear more of this patch.

best,


Steve


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## germancomponist (May 31, 2010)

Thomas_J @ Fri May 28 said:


> :oops: Thank you Vibrato! I'm really glad you like the music! HS was running in Cubase on a PC with 12gb of ram and it worked just fine, so maybe that's why it came out sounding positive?



In Cubase on a PC? But Thomas... :mrgreen: o/~ o-[][]-o


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## Justus (May 31, 2010)

germancomponist @ Mon May 31 said:


> Thomas_J @ Fri May 28 said:
> 
> 
> > :oops: Thank you Vibrato! I'm really glad you like the music! HS was running in Cubase on a PC with 12gb of ram and it worked just fine, so maybe that's why it came out sounding positive?
> ...



Indeed! Nobody uses Cubase on PC these days (except me) :mrgreen:


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## Ed (May 31, 2010)

Justus @ Mon May 31 said:


> Indeed! Nobody uses Cubase on PC these days (except me) :mrgreen:



Why wouldnt you use Cubase on a PC? For Mac I thought the standard was Logic, so whats the standard on the PC if not Cubase?


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## lux (May 31, 2010)

Ed @ Mon May 31 said:


> Justus @ Mon May 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed! Nobody uses Cubase on PC these days (except me) :mrgreen:
> ...



Sonar.


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## Ed (May 31, 2010)

lux @ Mon May 31 said:


> Ed @ Mon May 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Justus @ Mon May 31 said:
> ...



lol seriously?


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## handz (May 31, 2010)

You guys mean I STILL LOOK LIKE SHAREWARE APP FROM 1990´S SONAR? LOL


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## lux (May 31, 2010)

Ed @ Mon May 31 said:


> lux @ Mon May 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Ed @ Mon May 31 said:
> ...



of course. 

Sonar has a widespread users base and is largely sold. Its a pretty good software with a long history. Maybe it hasnt landed your town yet.

from a personal point of view Cubase is the best headache a guy can have out of a daw. It also earns the price for crappiest supporting brand of the entire world. But fans are fans...


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## handz (May 31, 2010)

Yeah fans are fans, GPO and even SONAR could have some, surpsrisingly


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## lux (May 31, 2010)

hehe...he....

he.


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## Ed (May 31, 2010)

lux @ Mon May 31 said:


> of course.
> 
> Sonar has a widespread users base and is largely sold. Its a pretty good software with a long history. Maybe it hasnt landed your town yet.
> 
> from a personal point of view Cubase is the best headache a guy can have out of a daw. It also earns the price for crappiest supporting brand of the entire world. But fans are fans...



My perspective has always been... Mac = Logic .... PC= Cubase.


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## dcoscina (May 31, 2010)

Okay this is a major OT but why do you guys keep complaining about GPO? The thing costs like $150 and some of the ideas that Gary applied are sound. Hell, I would love it if other developers decided to apply his idea of sampling different instruments so that part building sounds like a real orchestra rather than a big organ with weird chorusing because that's what happens when you layer the same sample. 

I'm not saying it's perfect by any stretch but it works well enough for my when using Sibelius (and it doesn't take a super computer to run either with 5000 shamillion GBs of RAM). 

It's one thing to compare apples with apples but honestly guys, GPO is not anywhere in the same league as EWQLSO Platinum or VSL or Sonixov so it's really not fair to compare or keep getting these jabs in.

Back to Thomas' awesome demo which sounds amazing. I'm not a huge fan of his Media Ventures type demos but I totally dig it when he's channeling John Williams circa the '70s. I think this is a super solid composition. Doesn't just show off the library but shows off his writing skills. Terrific stuff.


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## lux (May 31, 2010)

Ed @ Mon May 31 said:


> lux @ Mon May 31 said:
> 
> 
> > of course.
> ...



i can see that as of course Cubase is considered a standard. Still Cakewalk serie is worth good consideration and has a good fan base. Personally i'm still in love with my little Project 5 as one of the most stable and easy to use toys out there, so sad they discontinued it.


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## Justus (May 31, 2010)

Ed @ Mon May 31 said:


> Justus @ Mon May 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed! Nobody uses Cubase on PC these days (except me) :mrgreen:
> ...



Yes, Cubase, I guess! I thought I was ironic enough...


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## dcoscina (May 31, 2010)

If I was back on PC I would be using Sonar or Pro Tools. I have Cubase 5 but it didn't work too terrifically on my PC.


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## Dr.Quest (May 31, 2010)

Curious why you wouldn't go with Studio Pro on PC?
It runs on both as I recall.


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## dcoscina (May 31, 2010)

Whoops totally forgot about that. I guess I'm so Mac-centric these days...I actually use Studio One Pro the most. I went back to PT8LE because I was working with someone who uses that but I found it slower than S1Pro. I haven't used Studio One on the PC since I bought it though- my PC is in the closet gathering dust.


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## handz (May 31, 2010)

I must confess that when I was absolute beginner I was using SONAR for a while, because each midi chanel have his own color in key editor and it was so coulourfull and happy (but cubase could do that too now )

About the GPO and the sections etc - Hmm - I dont know, but i absolutely dont feel that with normal libs your music must sound like organ. If you make chord from patch that uses 10 cellos will it sound like when you in real world play chord with 30 cello? Sorry but I dont think so. If that would work there will be no problem of the string libs sounds small. 
Its same like when you take three solo trumpets an let them play one tone - will it sound like recorded trumpet ensemble playing one tone? No. 
GPO sounds maybe a bit better than some synth emulation or MIDI but still it sounds week to my ears. Now you can get SILVER or GOLD for similar money and there is no comparsion. 

But with this debate we are stepping onto bridge that I thought we all crossed years ago...


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## dcoscina (May 31, 2010)

EW Silver is quite good but does not have the breadth of instruments that GPO has- GPO has multi players for each instrument group with different instrument samples to avoid that layered problem. It's not perfect but I like the idea of it- building an orchestra with different instruments. It doesn't have section samples except for the strings and brass (Project SAM which are leagues better than the previous brass).

I don't want to divert this thread from its original topic which is Thomas' great demo though.


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## choc0thrax (May 31, 2010)

sadatayy @ Mon May 31 said:


> dcoscina @ Mon May 31 said:
> 
> 
> > EW Silver is quite good but does not have the breadth of instruments that GPO has- GPO has multi players for each instrument group with different instrument samples to avoid that layered problem. It's not perfect but I like the idea of it- building an orchestra with different instruments. It doesn't have section samples except for the strings and brass (Project SAM which are leagues better than the previous brass).
> ...



Strangely I agree with Heres-- err Requi-- errr I mean Sadatayy. It's time to embrace other topics!


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## sadatayy (May 31, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Mon May 31 said:


> sadatayy @ Mon May 31 said:
> 
> 
> > dcoscina @ Mon May 31 said:
> ...



what??


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## José Herring (May 31, 2010)

Don't ban him this time. He may be annoying but I doubt that heresy is a troll. Plus it's too hard to keep up with his many names.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 31, 2010)

dcoscina @ 31/5/2010 said:


> EW Silver is quite good but does not have the breadth of instruments that GPO has- GPO has multi players for each instrument group with different instrument samples to avoid that layered problem.



OK, but what if the samples themselves sound bad?


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## Pzy-Clone (May 31, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Mon May 31 said:


> sadatayy @ Mon May 31 said:
> 
> 
> > dcoscina @ Mon May 31 said:
> ...



... you just couldnt resist, huh? :lol:


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## choc0thrax (May 31, 2010)

Pzy-Clone @ Mon May 31 said:


> choc0thrax @ Mon May 31 said:
> 
> 
> > sadatayy @ Mon May 31 said:
> ...



Never can!


On the topic of GPO vs EWQLSO Silver I'd have to go with GPO. I'd rather have a ton of bad sounding samples than a few okayish sounding ones. Plus I just hate sections. The ability to layer bad samples over bad samples allows me to build the orchestra of my nightmar-- err dreams-- err Requie-- ahhhhhhhhhhhh!


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## Ed (May 31, 2010)

dcoscina @ Mon May 31 said:


> Okay this is a major OT but why do you guys keep complaining about GPO? The thing costs like $150 and some of the ideas that Gary applied are sound.



Because of how Gary has acted over the years since it was released, this has been discussed many times


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 2, 2010)

So sad that I missed all the fireworks before they were mostly deleted...looks like it was a pretty hilarious show.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 2, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Wed Jun 02 said:


> So sad that I missed all the fireworks before they were mostly deleted...looks like it was a pretty hilarious show.



I posted somehing that I quickly realized was in poor taste, and deleted it two minutes later. There were fireworks?


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 2, 2010)

Considering how many posts were self censored and the little snippets that were quoted or referred to, sure looks like things got pretty crazy.


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## choc0thrax (Jun 2, 2010)

This is why I always quote crazy posts. There's always a chance someone will self censor at some point. Gotta preserve these precious moments.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 2, 2010)

Darn. Missed the whole thing.


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