# To transcribe or not to?



## I like music (Jul 12, 2019)

Hi everyone,

Would you say there's a minimum threshold of "musical understanding" (perhaps orchestration?) that you should have before transcribing music becomes beneficial?

Here's why I ask: there are lots of things that I'd like to transcribe, but given that I'm still a relative beginner, I feel like I would be doing nothing more than guessing (especially in music where there are dense harmonies, and a ton of instruments). I feel like I'd essentially be guessing, and the guessing part isn't really transcription. It feels like a ridiculously difficult thing to do.

So the question is, should I still plod on and keep doing it? I find it enjoyable, if very slow (I've spent hours on a couple of bars where there were only a couple of sections playing).

And by the way, when I say transcribe, I mean straight into my DAW (not onto paper, yet).

Curious to know if there are dos and don'ts around this, and what I should keep in mind!


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## Rob (Jul 12, 2019)

I think that's one of the best ways to improve in every aspect of your musical education... keep doing it


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## I like music (Jul 12, 2019)

Rob said:


> I think that's one of the best ways to improve in every aspect of your musical education... keep doing it


Thank you. And in terms of 'difficulty' of what I'm trying to transcribe (or just general tips around how to do it, how not to) if you have any advice, I'd love to hear it!


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## Vardaro (Jul 12, 2019)

Study classical symphonic scores vs piano reductions.
And Ravel's La Valse, Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, exist in piano and orchestral versions.


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## bryla (Jul 12, 2019)

My advice:
1: Play along with regular pop songs on a piano. Start with melody, then bass and chords
2: Write those melodies down in a lead sheet form

As you progress you will start to notice more and more details and slowly you can write many elements of an orchestral arrangement. When you do that you can input it in you sequencer (or better yet Sibelius with Noteperformer). Then you'll notice certain things that don't sound quite the same despite you've done the best you could to transcribe it. This is the point you get the score and compare those sections. Adjust your transcribtion and behold this new orchestrational technique you've acquired. Now you'll be better able to listen for that the next time.

I spent maybe 5 years on each of the first steps before beginning with orchestral music and still then it started with melody and bass.


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## I like music (Jul 12, 2019)

Vardaro said:


> Study classical symphonic scores vs piano reductions.
> And Ravel's La Valse, Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, exist in piano and orchestral versions.



Thank you - will add this to the daily queue of things to do!


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## I like music (Jul 12, 2019)

bryla said:


> My advice:
> 1: Play along with regular pop songs on a piano. Start with melody, then bass and chords
> 2: Write those melodies down in a lead sheet form
> 
> ...


Ahhh - makes a lot of sense. Yes, this is something I can get started with easily I feel. Thanks!


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## Kent (Jul 12, 2019)

"Slow and with much guessing" is how everyone starts off their transcription abilities. It's the repeated mistakes that train you how to be quicker and more accurate!

Why not transcribe straight onto paper? Use your DAW to check the sounds, but there is something to be said about internalizing knowledge by physically writing it down. It's why people still often take notes with a pen, even if it's onto digital paper!

Also, I recommend an app like Anytune - it can loop sections of, isolate by frequency or by position in the stereo spectrum in, and slow down playback of audio recordings. Very helpful to find hidden inner voices.


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## bryla (Jul 12, 2019)

I've used Transcribe! almost every day for 12 years https://www.seventhstring.com/


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## I like music (Jul 12, 2019)

kmaster said:


> "Slow and with much guessing" is how everyone starts off their transcription abilities. It's the repeated mistakes that train you how to be quicker and more accurate!
> 
> Why not transcribe straight onto paper? Use your DAW to check the sounds, but there is something to be said about internalizing knowledge by physically writing it down. It's why people still often take notes with a pen, even if it's onto digital paper!
> 
> Also, I recommend an app like Anytune - it can loop sections of, isolate by frequency or by position in the stereo spectrum in, and slow down playback of audio recordings. Very helpful to find hidden inner voices.



Amazing, thank you. Yeah, just printing off a ton of staff paper as we speak


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## I like music (Jul 12, 2019)

bryla said:


> I've used Transcribe! almost every day for 12 years https://www.seventhstring.com/



Wow, had no idea something like this existed!


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## JJP (Jul 12, 2019)

I've used Transcribe as well, but it is important to know that you still need to use your ears on polyphonic material. Resonances, reverb, and phase cancellations can cause the program to think it's hearing one pitch when your ears will clearly tell you it's something else because of the context.

That's not to say Transcribe! isn't a great tool. I still once or twice a year throw something into Transcribe! when I'm handed something particularly tricky, and I do this work almost every day.


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## bryla (Jul 12, 2019)

I only use it for looping. It's simply the easiest wav-player for me.

I have been doing a lot of orchestral restorations from old recordings this year and features like m/s is easy to enable as well.

When I studied I transcribed a lot of jazz piano solos. There I used to set playback speed to 70% and I learned to listen for bass lines by employing the octave transposition feature.


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## MatFluor (Jul 12, 2019)

Transcribe! is golden - but I never use its predictive functions. But the easy loop-selection and slowdown can be a life-saver on dense stuff.


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## Rob (Jul 12, 2019)

And there's an app too that does a great job at slowing down music and much more, called Audiostretch. Almost a mobile Transcribe...


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## I like music (Jul 12, 2019)

It is encouraging to know that things like this exist precisely because it is hard to actually hear what's going on in a number of cases (just by ear). It at least makes me feel that I'm not totally useless, and it is a challenge even for gifted-and-or-experienced musicians.


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## JJP (Jul 12, 2019)

I like music said:


> It is encouraging to know that things like this exist precisely because it is hard to actually hear what's going on in a number of cases (just by ear). It at least makes me feel that I'm not totally useless, and it is a challenge even for gifted-and-or-experienced musicians.



That is exactly why I charge hourly for the time it takes to transcribe. Even the simplest things can take a lot of time if the recording or performance isn't the best, or there are other elements obscuring things. I can't tell you how many times I've had to tear into harmonies wondering "What is that?" only to find that it's something simple but one person is out of tune, or the balance is off or the mix has been compressed beyond all recognition and is slightly distorting.


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## JT (Jul 12, 2019)

Transcribing is very useful as everyone has said. But if you're a beginner, take it slow. Do simple ear training exercises and combine that with sight singing. Start with melodies. Learn to hear intervals. Learn to transform a rhythm you hear into a rhythm you can write down.

As a composer it's invaluable to be able to hear a melody in your head while you're driving and then seeing that melody in your head as notation, without using a piano, DAW, nothing.


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## JJP (Jul 12, 2019)

douggibson said:


> "My ears have joined the Metoo movement"



 I'm stealing that line because it is perfect.


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## I like music (Jul 13, 2019)

douggibson said:


> Many great pieces of advice above from really wonderful musicians.
> 
> I too get hired often as a transcriber. The "benefit" side is an interesting one.
> 
> ...





Thank you for your thoughtful and comprehensive response. Some of the things you said, I really need to go back to, and make a part of a routine. In particular, writing onto paper rather than into the DAW.

This is particularly scary because I can barely read (you know, I still have to use mnemonics to know which note is which, and even though on basic rhythmic stuff I'm getting better, when I look at scores, I have to spend a good 5-10 seconds per note just to be sure of what it is, and I often make mistakes on rhythm)

That said, I'm taking violin lessons, and also have started taking 1-to-1 theory lessons, so this will certainly help!


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## I like music (Jul 13, 2019)

JT said:


> Transcribing is very useful as everyone has said. But if you're a beginner, take it slow. Do simple ear training exercises and combine that with sight singing. Start with melodies. Learn to hear intervals. Learn to transform a rhythm you hear into a rhythm you can write down.
> 
> As a composer it's invaluable to be able to hear a melody in your head while you're driving and then seeing that melody in your head as notation, without using a piano, DAW, nothing.



This might sound like a silly question, but any pointers on what might be considered good ear training exercises? Anything at all on ear training (even if it is super super simple) would be hugely appreciated!


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## JT (Jul 13, 2019)

I like music said:


> This might sound like a silly question, but any pointers on what might be considered good ear training exercises? Anything at all on ear training (even if it is super super simple) would be hugely appreciated!


Ear training 101 usually consists of identifying intervals used in common songs.
Did a quick google search and found this site:
https://flypaper.soundfly.com/tips/interval-cheat-sheet-songs-to-help-you-remember-common-intervals/

After you're comfortable with these and can hear the intervals, then take a song of your choice and try to write the melody on music paper using you ear, no piano. When you're done, then play it on piano and see how you did. See if certain intervals are easier or harder to hear, then concentrate on the difficult ones.


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## bryla (Jul 13, 2019)

Although I'm 100% in the movable do camp I completely agree with @douggibson


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## I like music (Jul 14, 2019)

douggibson said:


> Honestly..... just try and pick out songs / melodies on your instrument and reading music, and sing
> what you hear.
> 
> Don't worry or get distracted by anything else.
> ...



Thank you. With all the things I'm trying to do, the hardest part is to try to figure out a structure around my general learning (I'm learning the violin with a teacher, starting theory lessons, learning the piano (on my own), trying to write music, trying to learn more about mixing etc, and even though I'm in it for the long game, I want to enjoy the journey, so I don't want to spend all my time practising across all of these areas. But I feel that getting my 'ear' up to scratch should be a first priority.


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