# Composing with no metronome



## igwanna (Oct 5, 2018)

Sorry the noob question.

but,

i hate to be stuck to the metronome's command. I believe much of the character of the mockup comes from the swaying around of the tempo, that in order to feel more emotional, should be sort of elastic.

What techniques should i employ to take the squareness away of the metronome, but still be able to compose within "a" tempo without losing track of the speed of the music?

should i just compose with no metronome at all? should i vary the tempo in the project as many times as necessary? how about "per phrase" variations in tempo? like for example when you just stretch a little bit of the tail of that phrase just to make it more emotional= because that sure sound like way too much extra work to me.-..


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## germancomponist (Oct 5, 2018)

I mostly start composing without a metronome, because I mostly start composing in my head. But when I start to write the first notes, I set a tempo. Very often, I change it. Luckily last week we sat down and listened to a song idea, what was and is great, but it worked not as well as it did in my head. Then we experimented with the tempi and now it is much slower and works perfect.
Sometimes there is, for example, a big different between 90 and 90,3 ..... .


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## Rodney Money (Oct 5, 2018)

I compose without a metronome all the time. I simply play in my main themes live without a click then weave the harmony, percussion, and counter-melodies around them all playing in live. Here's an example:


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## igwanna (Oct 5, 2018)

is that iliya efimovs duduk=?


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## Rodney Money (Oct 5, 2018)

Another thing you can do is have one track in tempo, and on the grid, then play in the main theme live. In this example, the bass clef, left hand accompaniment, is on the grid while the right hand and the flute soloist are played in live and freely:


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## Rodney Money (Oct 5, 2018)

igwanna said:


> is that iliya efimovs duduk=?


CineWinds Pro.


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## artmuz (Oct 5, 2018)

You can also play the piece freely and then tempo-map it, in cubase it's very easy.


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## Markus Kohlprath (Oct 6, 2018)

artmuz said:


> You can also play the piece freely and then tempo-map it, in cubase it's very easy.


This is what I do as long as the music demands it.
On the other hand for more pop style or rhythmic stuff I would say a click track is mandatory these days if you don’t want to sound like the beatles. Which is not a bad thing of course.


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## igwanna (Oct 6, 2018)

i normally work with orchestral or emotional piano... sentences tend to stretch and shrink in tempo often, also im with studio one im not acquainted with the tempo map but i supposed it makes oyou determine the tempo at any given time..


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## Soundhound (Oct 6, 2018)

This is the best argument I have ever heard for not working to a click track.



Markus Kohlprath said:


> This is what I do as long as the music demands it.
> On the other hand for more pop style or rhythmic stuff I would say a click track is mandatory these days if you don’t want to sound like the beatles. Which is not a bad thing of course.


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## germancomponist (Oct 6, 2018)

Rodney Money said:


> Another thing you can do is have one track in tempo, and on the grid, then play in the main theme live. In this example, the bass clef, left hand accompaniment, is on the grid while the right hand and the flute soloist are played in live and freely:



What library did u use in the first part, Rodney?


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## Markus Kohlprath (Oct 6, 2018)

igwanna said:


> i normally work with orchestral or emotional piano... sentences tend to stretch and shrink in tempo often, also im with studio one im not acquainted with the tempo map but i supposed it makes oyou determine the tempo at any given time..


In cubase you can adjust every beat of the grid to what you have played. If you want to laydown the foundation for an orchestral track with a lot of instruments I couldn’t get along without doing it.


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## Rodney Money (Oct 6, 2018)

germancomponist said:


> What library did u use in the first part, Rodney?


Wavesfactory music box, and it's free!


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## Mike Fox (Oct 6, 2018)

I hate the metronome, and refuse to record with one. I just play and then adjust the notes to the grid. That way the dynamics are still there, but the timing is perfect. You can offset the notes a tad if you want more "realism", but that really is the easiest way (for me) to get things done. Fu$! the metronome.


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## germancomponist (Oct 6, 2018)

Rodney Money said:


> Wavesfactory music box, and it's free!


Thanks Rodney! Downloaded and inserted it in my project where I need it. Works perfect! I also would buy this library with money, sounds very good!


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## Thomas Kallweit (Oct 6, 2018)

I can absolutely understand, why it can be great to compose without a metronome. So you can get into a flow which can be mainly directed by the notes and note-interactions and how this develops. 

For more rhythmic stuff and motives a metronome could help, though. So maybe for some sections put it on and for others put it off? 
The question is still open for myself, too. So it depends.

"should i vary the tempo in the project as many times as necessary?"
Yes, I can imagine that it can be good to compose without click and experimenting with different tempos at places.


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## Rodney Money (Oct 6, 2018)

germancomponist said:


> Thanks Rodney! Downloaded and inserted it in my project where I need it. Works perfect! I also would buy this library with money, sounds very good!


My pleasure, and I personally think it's the best music box out there. I'm happy to hear that it worked out for you.


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## germancomponist (Oct 6, 2018)

Rodney Money said:


> My pleasure, and I personally think it's the best music box out there. I'm happy to hear that it worked out for you.


https://app.box.com/s/x8vlb98bulaj2oyt2836ysgqj7f04piy


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## Rodney Money (Oct 6, 2018)

germancomponist said:


> https://app.box.com/s/x8vlb98bulaj2oyt2836ysgqj7f04piy


Oh yeah! That music box sounded great in your mix!


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## gregh (Oct 6, 2018)

Mostly I just play in freely and then overdub to that but I sometimes work to a simple groove track rather than a metronome. I haven't used a traditional metronome since we could so easily program beats or just use grooves/loops to play along to


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## gtrwll (Oct 6, 2018)

Interesting topic. Anyone working primarily on production music wanna chime in? I've gathered that the click track is pretty much mandatory there (even in orchestral pieces) given the purpose, but feel free to enlighten me.


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## mikeh-375 (Oct 7, 2018)

Composing without a click to picture encourages rubato and for me, a far more musical result. One can then create phrases that are malleable and adaptable to last minute changes in edits. I'm out of the game now, but when I was in the thick of it, rubato, ralls, accells, often saved the day and kept the integrity of the line without having to resort to weird time signatures. I fear sometimes that this way of writing could be missed by a computer composer brought up on those damned spiccatos, but hope not. I do understand though that sometimes precision is required - but surely not always!


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## Divico (Oct 7, 2018)

Tempo maps are great for this. You can play in tightly and still have rubato etc by slightly changing the tempo envelope. I always hated the metronome but when I started recording I realized how important it can be. Playing tight is very important in some genres like metal or more rythmic and uptempo stuff.


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## gregh (Oct 7, 2018)

Divico said:


> Playing tight is very important in some genres like metal or more rythmic and uptempo stuff.



Do you use an actual metronome/click or do you use a relevant "beat" to play to?


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## Vik (Oct 7, 2018)

I just did a quick experiment with Logic's smart tempo function - a short improv played without a click - which Logic then analysed and tried to 'beat map' automatically. Here's the result. As you can hear it's not perfect, but this first suggestion done by Logic's algorithm can be fine tuned by the user. I'm glad Apple has implemented this. It won't replace the Beat Mapping function, but can be a good time saver for those of us who live relatively clickless lives.


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## Fab (Oct 7, 2018)

For composing, I often see people do a 'free time' sketch using their 1st instrument, either in their DAW or outside of it. To me, this seems to be a good compromise.


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## Erick - BVA (Oct 7, 2018)

I find it more difficult to overdub with no metronome. Since using no metronome is sporadic, there is simply no way to memorize all of the subtle changes in tempo. So the overdubbed parts end being out of sync. I honestly prefer to record without a metronome, but it's simply difficult due to the above issue. So I've actually been trying to use one more often. And sometimes, I find it easier and less constrained feeling to build a track over a groove track, as gregh suggested (at least the first few layers). If you get just one or two layers pretty well metered, then it can be more inspiring to take out the metronome and groove track, and just use those layers as the "metronome" from there on out.


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## Divico (Oct 7, 2018)

gregh said:


> Do you use an actual metronome/click or do you use a relevant "beat" to play to?


Sometimes metronome. Sometimes Drums. 
If you want to be tight a metronome is better imo.


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## styledelk (Oct 7, 2018)

Outside of a conductor, I don't think I've ever tried playing or composing to a metronome. That said, it's probably why I end up naming so many things "bad timing, out of time, we don't need time."
Basically, bad habits stick, but can probably be both a creative crutch and a boon. Laziness means I probably don't go back to align anything to the measure grids.
This is probably more of an endorsement for playing _with_ a click track than not.


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