# Georges Bizet (Carmen) / Mozart (A little night symphony) Excerpts ---Digital Mockup---



## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 11, 2016)

Hello Everyone,

I would like to share with you two tracks I am actually working on. The 1st track is a digital sampling rendition of Goerges Bizets "Carmen". My intention was to emulate some sort of "lowfi retro sound" dumped into a "1930s smoking bar" enviroment:



The second one is a "A little Night Symphony" by Wolfgang A. Mozart:



Both tracks are very challenging - each on his own - and I am not done with them yet. I know that there are imperfections and still I think it could be worth to share the current versions to get a feedback and have a discussion - If you have questions you are welcome to ask.





_(A side note for the admins: I wasn´t sure where to put it, if you feel that belongs to sample talk or somewhere else feel free to move the topic then.)_


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## fiestared (Jan 11, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I would like to share with you two tracks I am actually working on. The 1st track is a digital sampling rendition of Goerges Bizets "Carmen". My intention was to emulate some sort of "lowfi retro sound" dumped into a "1930s smoking bar" enviroment:
> 
> ...




Wow, Excellent !


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## TGV (Jan 11, 2016)

I felt that the louder dynamics in the first track are a bit clean, as if the louder parts got through with less distortion than the softer, but the spirit is totally there. It can't be easy to imitate that sound, so well done.

Eine kleine Nachtmusik didn't convince me that much. It's fun, but very fast, a bit harsh, and too sloppy to my taste, and the balance between the sections seems a bit off. Unless you wanted it to sound like that, of course: the introduction was a bit unclear on how much the second track was meant to be in the same style as the first.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 12, 2016)

TGV said:


> I felt that the louder dynamics in the first track are a bit clean, as if the louder parts got through with less distortion than the softer, but the spirit is totally there. It can't be easy to imitate that sound, so well done.
> 
> Eine kleine Nachtmusik didn't convince me that much. It's fun, but very fast, a bit harsh, and too sloppy to my taste, and the balance between the sections seems a bit off. Unless you wanted it to sound like that, of course: the introduction was a bit unclear on how much the second track was meant to be in the same style as the first.


Thank for your feedback, TGV.

With "Eine kleine Nachtmusik" it is very challenging. I work with a reference and I rebounced indeed the click from the live track measure by measure. The live performance is very energetic and fast - for a traditional taste too much. As I am still working on the piece I am sure I can consider your ideas into my workflow. Thanks again. PS: This piece was done only with Berlin Strings. To your question: The Mozart piece wasn´t intended to sound lowfi retro like the 1st one. That are 2 different approaches. Just to let you know.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 12, 2016)

fiestared said:


> Wow, Excellent !



Thank you, but can´t be that you really like everything there? 

When I would give myself a feedback,I would say: Some things work quite descent to a certain extent. some others not. It is for me mostly the mozart piece which has this very intimate chamber sound. The tightrope walk is pretty small between beeing "expressive" enough, but not "over expressive" which sounds then: Good will, but bad execution. You know "banging" around on forte is by far easier than doing all this tiny little lines on ppp- mf parts 

Anyways: Thank you.


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## AlexandreSafi (Jan 12, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Thank for your feedback, TGV.
> 
> With "Eine kleine Nachtmusik" it is very challenging. PS: This piece was done only with Berlin Strings.



Alex! In my humble opinion, once you're done perfecting the Mozart cue, you should submit it to Hendrik S. (OrchestralTools) for their website, you're really doing the library great justice! It's one of those demos that would, for me, instantly make me want to get those strings... 
Best,
-A.-


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## Erik (Jan 12, 2016)

Hi Alex,
I loved the spirit of the Carmen track, for me the sound was very much OK in the presented context, the performance could have been even more sloppy for me. Full orchestras weren't very tightly playing in that period as they do nowadays. I couldn't resist a nice laugh anyway. Thanks for sharing.
The Mozart on the other hand is overall too sloppy (!) for me, a bit too much out of tune (at 0:003 e.g.). The fast passages don't work well with this library imo. Most (slurred, not repaeted) sixteenth notes just disappear to be honest. So maybe BS wouldn't have been my choice, to be honest, for this work. 
There is also a disbalance sometimes between sections, too much bass (0:04) for example. I know Mozart is very hard to mockup anyway. Just my 2 cents.


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## fiestared (Jan 12, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Thank you, but can´t be that you really like everything there?
> 
> When I would give myself a feedback,I would say: Some things work quite descent to a certain extent. some others not. It is for me mostly the mozart piece which has this very intimate chamber sound. The tightrope walk is pretty small between beeing "expressive" enough, but not "over expressive" which sounds then: Good will, but bad execution. You know "banging" around on forte is by far easier than doing all this tiny little lines on ppp- mf parts
> 
> Anyways: Thank you.


Even being in the Music biz, I always stay spontaneous, so without any reason, sometimes I like, and sometimes I don't. I listened to your demos on my tiny ipad speaker and I liked what I heard, so spontaneously I said it. I never comment when I don't like...


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## leon chevalier (Jan 12, 2016)

fiestared said:


> Wow, Excellent !


The same for me! (Sorry Alexander if it's not a constructive feedback ) It's a long time I didn't have the "Wow effect"!

Just one things : I felt the high frequency of Carmen too agressive. But it can be due to my head phone.

Leon


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 12, 2016)

Hello there,

Thanks for the honest inputs here. I appreciate that a lot, because it will definitely help improving the sections, ecspecially in the Mozart one. This morning I was doing more bars on Mozart. I changed slightly the room Settings and tried to overwork some few sections here and there. The sloppy things are indeed true and they are obvious. I will see how I can manage to better that. Anyways here is a 2nd version. I keep the first one for your reference.



I tried to follow some of the suggestions and decreased (e.g.) the intensity of tempo change in the beginning a bit and yeah, well.. Go and have a listen. And yes: Mozarts music and all this kind of stuff is a lot of work to get some sound out of it. You have literally to sculptur the shit of out the samples. Sample Libraries are not aimed to this kind of music and still I love the challenge to see what I can do with my virtual instrument - just in case. To be honest, not to hail Berlin Strings too much here, but I am still amazed about that library. And it is BS only, so no layering with other vis or so.


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## AlexandreSafi (Jan 12, 2016)

The arrangement is of course far from perfect, I agree with the criticisms earlier (rhythm, inconsistent basses, detuning, trills, more release at 1:04 & 1:16, etc...), but the imperfection about the whole, is absolutely in a good way for me, and that's what I love with your Mozart piece... I'm usually pretty fluid and open when I hear different interpretations, way much so, maybe that's my weakness who knows... Now for sure, Solo/Chamber Music is the ultimate challenge, but it's that, as it seems in the hands of someone with a very competent ear, you can get that "live" feel very quickly and thanks to your programming, you manage to sustain that feel all the way through without, for me at least, being that distracted by what articulations would need more work here and there, it simply feels like musicians in the same room, but the best thing about it is really that it "most probably" best showcases the great-good-less good things about the product, which is what one might for hope to understand before deciding to purchase something or not...

I don't have Berlin Strings, and so:
All in all, I maintain that I think your demo would be a nice complement to those on the website... The result is simply honest!

And I agree with leon chevalier about the "wow effect", which to me would be the sonic realism! Also, I don't hear that kind of programming really often to be honest! That being said, keep working really really hard on every new piece with as much fun & objectivity as you can keep, the amount of detail to sculpt with those sample libraries is often unfair on us, so the challenge's never accomplished...
Trust yourself, let go of the piece, come back to it with a fresh ear, as you already know, it always works...
All my best, and thank you for sharing!
-a.-


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## fiestared (Jan 12, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hello there,
> 
> Thanks for the honest inputs here. I appreciate that a lot, because it will definitely help improving the sections, ecspecially in the Mozart one. This morning I was doing more bars on Mozart. I changed slightly the room Settings and tried to overwork some few sections here and there. The sloppy things are indeed true and they are obvious. I will see how I can manage to better that. Anyways here is a 2nd version. I keep the first one for your reference.
> 
> ...




I will try to exprime myself differently and you'll choose the choice you prefer: a) Wow excellent ! b) not bad, but at the second bar you should have change the tempo a bit less on the first beat and a bit more of eq on the second beat, bla bla bla etc... c) I don't like at all and think you are pretentious to dare making a Mozart mock up. 
I think you know what works and what doesn't on your tracks, my only "advice" would be listen to your tracks on a very small bluetooth speaker in mono anywhere except from your studio, and bingo everything will be clear for you. 
PS
I still prefer the a choice.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 12, 2016)

I promise I will do more versions and "better the flaws" to a "nicer imperfections" :D Btw: You learn a lot by doing that, not only how to treat your vi and get to know your vi in difficult situations but also about composing and structuring process. And this piece is also really good for that. The other day where I was orchestrating and arranging the Bizet piece I realized that there are also things in that piece which I found in film scores, e.g. that fanfare at 27 seconds is also all over the place in the classic Star Trek movies in a different context. You also learn how that fanfare is stacked and what you can do with it. So by saying that: It is not just trying to "fake" some how the real thing, it is also learning things. And I can learn the best by doing it.


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## Morodiene (Jan 12, 2016)

I'm currently in a production of Carmen, so I loved the spirit of this. I agree that it does sound a bit too "together" for the time. Perhaps a bit more separation within the sections would help this. Did you have a specific recording you were referring to for this?

Ya, the Mozart (I listened to your 2nd version) is so exposing. Mozart really liked to do that: leave you hanging out to dry (ala Ach, ice fuhl's) - there's just no hiding in his stuff within a big texture whatsoever, even in tutti parts.

Still, an excellent job doing this and I admire your handiwork. Maybe someday I'll be able to do this too!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 12, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> I'm currently in a production of Carmen, so I loved the spirit of this. I agree that it does sound a bit too "together" for the time. Perhaps a bit more separation within the sections would help this. Did you have a specific recording you were referring to for this?
> 
> Ya, the Mozart (I listened to your 2nd version) is so exposing. Mozart really liked to do that: leave you hanging out to dry (ala Ach, ice fuhl's) - there's just no hiding in his stuff within a big texture whatsoever, even in tutti parts.
> 
> Still, an excellent job doing this and I admire your handiwork. Maybe someday I'll be able to do this too!



Yes that "a bit too together" was mentioned by the other guy as well and that is very true. I think I can handle that by spreading a bit the notes here and there or make it more sloppy. For the retro sound I didn´t had any reference. It was done from my feel. But from the track (normal orchestra performance) I had a reference from YT though.

Yeah...Mozart, tomorrow I will polish all the problems. Wish me luck, but I am confident. ..ah no..I shouldn´t be too sure. But I bite myself through problems until they are solved (part of my nature) :D


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 12, 2016)

AlexandreSafi said:


> Alex! In my humble opinion, once you're done perfecting the Mozart cue, you should submit it to Hendrik S. (OrchestralTools) for their website, you're really doing the library great justice! It's one of those demos that would, for me, instantly make me want to get those strings...
> Best,
> -A.-



Maybe I will sent it to Hendrik when he is back from the NAMM.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 13, 2016)

Hi Everyone,

Here you will find version 3 from this morning:



Let me know what you think. I really tried hard improving some of the sections (also the sloppiness). All made with Berlin Strings only.For your reference I kept the old version so you can see what changed to better hopefully..:D I am going to revise more the next sessions. 

Thx.


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## paoling (Jan 13, 2016)

Alexander, that's finally great!


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## Morodiene (Jan 13, 2016)

Nicely done!


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## Fer (Jan 13, 2016)

Awesome!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 13, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> Nicely done!





Fer said:


> Awesome!


Thank you Paolo and Morodiene. Kind words.

I am going to keep refining the tracks in some of the next sessions. I think for now on the bizet tracks needs a bit of more treatment..


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## JF (Jan 13, 2016)

Alexander, that last Mozart was amazing. Which mic positions are you using with BS? Again, fantastic mockup.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 13, 2016)

Hello John,

You are welcome.

Here are the Micings:

Tree (-15 to -20 dB) varies a bit in dB depends on patch (I go by ear)
CM when available (0 to -3 db) same as mentioned above
Close (0 dB)
Noise when available (0 dB)

Best Greetings,
Alex


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## novaburst (Jan 13, 2016)

Sounds great, also your sound cloud stuff Man !!!!!!

Feel you need to do a before and after on the Carmen (Bizet) 1931
as the low fi or old radio sound is spoiling it for me,


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 14, 2016)

novaburst said:


> Sounds great, also your sound cloud stuff Man !!!!!!
> 
> Feel you need to do a before and after on the Carmen (Bizet) 1931
> as the low fi or old radio sound is spoiling it for me,



Hi Novaburst, 

Ah you checked out other tunes. Great.

I have done a regular version before though before putting the effects over the track.


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## TGV (Jan 14, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Here you will find version 3 from this morning:


I think that sounds pretty good. It sounds like an enthusiastic orchestra that didn't polish the performance: sometimes the bass growls a bit, sometimes the violas accentuate the middle voice, but overall it feels fine and natural. One thing: the melody loses repeated notes in some places.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 14, 2016)

TGV said:


> I think that sounds pretty good. It sounds like an enthusiastic orchestra that didn't polish the performance: sometimes the bass growls a bit, sometimes the violas accentuate the middle voice, but overall it feels fine and natural. One thing: the melody loses repeated notes in some places.



Yes sometimes the bass is somehow slightly growling. I am aware of that. I will go an do a revision of that for sure. Thank you, TGV


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## apessino (Jan 14, 2016)

The final version of the Mozart is a HUGE improvement over the previous ones - sounds great now and the pacing, while still really on the quick side (a bit rushed, even), has a much more natural beat to it.

Fantastic work!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jan 14, 2016)

apessino said:


> The final version of the Mozart is a HUGE improvement over the previous ones - sounds great now and the pacing, while still really on the quick side (a bit rushed, even), has a much more natural beat to it.
> 
> Fantastic work!



Thanks a lot. Though I won´t consider it as a final version. More things to work on..there is some more to do.


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## novaburst (Jan 15, 2016)

Well I can see your hands are full, some nice stuff you have dont stop


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