# Please, looking for a one-time, paid, short professional experience.



## Studio E (Dec 19, 2018)

Ok guys, this feels a little weird asking but here's the deal. I am turning 50 this year. I have been scoring smaller projects, mostly local, for about a decade and a half now. I am the poster child for every guy that ever figured out too late in life, what he wanted to do.

I feel like I've told this story before and I don't want pity or to bore anyone so I will keep it short. The fact is that, although I have the strongest of musical passions and have done a decent amount of paid-work that I've been praised upon heavily for, I am still just a small-town guy, working in his basement, about to do my first two feature-length films (supposedly) in this next year.

I have prioritized supporting my family over the incredible risks of relocation and dragging my extremely supportive wife through the lengths I'd be willing to go to, on my own, to make coffee for Hans were it an option.

I am looking for (dreaming of) the experience of being mentored for somewhere between a day to a week by someone that is willing, who is also doing some major work in the industry. Someone who is willing to talk with me, help me fill-in some holes in my composition game and maybe help me and perhaps most of all, inspire me to push forward for the rest of my years. 

Let me just mention what a "dream scenario" would look like to me. A dream scenario would be to sit in the same place that Hans, or Harry Gregson-Williams, or Thomas Newman, or John Powell, or Danny Elfman (to name a few) and be able to ask questions, observe, and maybe even just experiment on that level, discuss some of my current projects, see how things work, etc..... I know this may sound insane and no, I don't expect this to happen on THAT high of a level, but this is an example of what I want more than anything for my 50th and my wife is desperately trying to find anything like this to make it happen for me, but she is also a working professional, swamped at work, and not at all connected to the industry.

I am not asking for this as a favor. I am willing to pay a pretty penny for the experience. As I consider my age now and where I will predictably be financially in the future, this may be my only realistic chance to do something like this. 

Things I would really love to experience the most are either just observing and being able to interact in a professional composing environment and/or working within a professional score recording environment with real musicians, especially an orchestral setting. 

Please, if you are someone who can, and is willing to help provide this for money, or if you know someone, or even know someone who knows someone who can help, I'd love to hear about it! I have paid tens and tens of thousands of dollars into equipment and software over the years. I basically have all the "stuff" I need (haha, that's laughable right?), but now the only thing I really want to spend money on is experience.

Finally; I'm not a freak or scary person at all, lol. I can be vetted. I have LOTS of professional references. I am a building inspector in Decatur Illinois and a small-time composer/producer, locked between the soybean fields of the Midwest. All I want is to hang with a professional or two, to get inspired and maybe learn a thing or two along the way. I could take as much as two weeks off to get it done and I can talk money with anyone that is willing to oblige their time, but I am indeed looking for professionals doing industry-level work.

Thanks for listening through this everyone. I'm just a nice guy that's trying to have a once-in-a-lifetime experience and I know there are people connected to this forum that could make it happen if they were so inclined. 

Obviously feel free to private message me, email me at [email protected], or Facebook message me.


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## chillbot (Dec 19, 2018)

Wait... so, I guess it's implied... but you don't actually come out and say it... you would travel to LA for this? Or London? Or somewhere else? For how long?

And you want to PAY to be an unpaid intern somewhere? But then, afterwards, you're going to go back to Illinois where your family is, therefore being of no further use to said composer.

Unless you intend to make enough contacts (quantity) or the proper contacts (quality) to work remotely via the intergoogles...? Which is possible, but then you're just one of 1,000s of other composers out there hoping to have a shot at working remotely without actually translocating. (See the 10,000 threads here "should I move to LA or no".)

Sorry if I am being skeptical, I'm not sure I understand the situation correctly, hence the heavy use of question marks.

OK here's what I would do:

1) If you are looking to make contacts and drum up some potential work, and you're also looking to travel to LA, I would forget the pay-to-be-a-fly-on-the-wall approach and just message everybody you know and meet with anyone willing to spare an hour and go to any and all events in town... the usual networking drivel.

2) If you really just want the "experience" thing, I think you have to give up the dream of actually being *mentored* by an A-list composer, and/or possibly a B-list composer as well. There are some that will mentor you... though in my personal experience, the ones that will mentor you are the ones that just like to hear themselves talk... usually about themselves. The people you really want to be mentored by, unfortunately, are too busy to actually do it.

I would not offer to pay for the experience, that will not go over well. Like a tourist paying for a studio tour, ugh. And you will need an "in" (which I think you understand, with your post here) as cold calling is probably not going to get you in the door. You really need a friend-of-a-friend or friend-of-an-acquaintance situation.

If it was me, I would present myself as a "fellow professional composer" (albeit from Illinois) and offer to hang around the studio for a bit... and, in exchange, go and pick up (and pay for) lunch and coffee for the staff every day. Basically I would say, hey who's the lowest on the totem pole... let me be their assistant for a week, I'll get them coffee every morning and run and pick up lunch every day. A composer might enjoy having someone around to make their employees happy, like a gift to them for a week. And, you could present it as, not only will I assist your assistants getting coffee and lunch, but I can help them do anything else from orchestration to copying to comping audio to taking out the trash. Honestly, you may very well pick up the most info and experience from the staff, in terms of real-world mentoring. And if you get the "in" or the invite, be a problem solver. Be The Guy that can get anything done. If you have free time and extra cash and no other obligations/deadlines you can solve anything... which is fairly rare in LA and could be your biggest commodity... making their lives easier for them. Even if it means sitting in traffic for a couple hours (LAs biggest and literal roadblock to most solutions).

Well anyway that's just one thought...

I'm sensitive to your plight as I did NOT take turning 40 well at all. And that was a few years back. 50 is not going to be pretty.


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## Studio E (Dec 19, 2018)

It is indeed about just having the experience. Not gaining contacts. Not establishing myself. It’s been my dream to be a film composer for almost 20 years. All I want to do is be able to hang on the highest rung I can for a few days or more. Yes, I had planned on flying out to LA assuming that that’s where it was most likely to happen. Probably not overseas. Yes, I do understand that most are too busy and I can’t afford their time otherwise. When it’s all said and done, i just want to be able to say I got to do it. Oh, and yes, I’m basically offering to pay to work. I’m a freaking building inspector. Working on music is what I do with all my time off, lol.


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## chillbot (Dec 19, 2018)

I totally get swinging for the fences... you'll never get what you don't ask for. It's probably worth it alone for the 1-in-1,000 chance that HZ sees this here.

I would not offer to pay, though. I think anyone worth one's salt will find that insulting. Either you will find someone or you won't... I wish you luck. But I can guarantee it won't be because of offering to pay. (And, if it is because of pay, RUN FAR AWAY!!) In LA, willingness to pick up a lunch tab or two is plenty.


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## Studio E (Dec 19, 2018)

I’m a midwestern blue collar guy. I just can’t imagine not offering someone compensation for their time. I’m just trying to show my sincerity.hopefully it doesn’t come off as insulting, contentious, or otherwise offensive. It’s a different culture here, and I’m
sure I’d be a fish out of water, but then that’s kind of the point. Thanks Chillbot


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## chillbot (Dec 19, 2018)

Appreciate it, I grew up in St. Paul MN. Different way of life there for sure.

The expense of LA is something else. It's not remotely comparable. To be blunt, the kind of composers you would like to meet... I mean how much would you be willing to pay them. No. They don't need it. It's just not really feasible, and yes, it can be a bit insulting. LA is built on a favors-for-favors system. Seriously, lunch would be plenty. And maybe even better. You know what the biggest favor you can ever do for someone in LA is? Offer to pick up their family member from LAX. No joke. It would be a blood bond for life.

Sorry for monopolizing your thread, I'll bow out now.


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## Studio E (Dec 20, 2018)

No problem. Thanks for the input! Mid-life crisis is in full swing, and perhaps 10 years late, haha!


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## Beluga (Dec 20, 2018)

Whishing you that your dream comes true, life is short and yes, experience what you can and make the best of it. Can’t help you there, unfortunately.


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## brek (Dec 20, 2018)

We have some biographical similarities, so I completely understand this. What you're looking for kind of reminds me of those fantasy baseball camps back in the 90s.

Anyway, Norman Ludwin may not be the household name, but he's entrenched in the "industry" and offers skype lessons. Don't see why those couldn't happen in person.

A couple years ago I was out in LA, naively trying to drum up film work to bring back east. A high school friend of mine was a PA on an ABC show and he got me in touch with the show's composer, who graciously offered to let me come by his studio and hang out for a bit. Not too much different than what you're looking for. It was an awesome experience, and he gave me some perspective on how fortunate I am to write music for a living - even if it means sacrificing the opportunity to really work on films in order to prioritize family and geography.


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## Mike Fox (Jan 1, 2019)

Just wanted to wish you the very best of luck with your dream!


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## Studio E (Jan 2, 2019)

brek said:


> What you're looking for kind of reminds me of those fantasy baseball camps back in the 90s.



I think this is exactly how I was thinking of it.


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## Studio E (Jan 2, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> Just wanted to wish you the very best of luck with your dream!



Thanks Mike! Probably not going to happen but when it doesn't, maybe it'll just make me wake up and work harder to get as close as I can on my own.


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## Mike Fox (Jan 2, 2019)

Studio E said:


> Thanks Mike! Probably not going to happen but when it doesn't, maybe it'll just make me wake up and work harder to get as close as I can on my own.


The fact that you have paid gigs under your belt is already leaps and bounds ahead of a lot of composers. I say stick with it, keep improving your craft, and keep making contacts. Something is bound to happen through persistence.


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## teraslasch (Jan 2, 2019)

You could definitely try going for one of the Hollywood Music Workshops (or maybe you already have!) and getting to know more industry veterans there who might be able to help you out on your journey (if you are able to add value to what they do  )


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## JT (Jan 2, 2019)

I hope you get what you want, but IMO, you have a wife and family who are supportive of your dreams. That alone is worth more in life than any film score could ever be.


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## Mike Fox (Jan 2, 2019)

JT said:


> I hope you get what you want, but IMO, you have a wife and family who are supportive of your dreams. That alone is worth more in life than any film score could ever be.


Truth.


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## Desire Inspires (Jan 6, 2019)

What a sad thread. A 50 year old man is willing to basically pimp himself out just to gain an “experience”.

Take your money and go on a fun trip with your wife. You can go somewhere awesome and film your whole trip with a iPhone. Turn that video footage into a mini movie and throw it up on YouTube. Create all of the music yourself. 

Basically you would be making your own movie and could use that as proof that you are capable at scoring. Even something like this will provide more long term satisfaction than getting coffee and donuts for some composer who will forget about you as soon as you are out of sight.

I swear musicians are some of the worst business people out here. SMH at such a waste of talent.


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## storyteller (Jan 6, 2019)

Man these last several posts are gnarly. The man has a dream and it makes complete sense what he wants to do. As anything in life, support people chasing their passions and joys and never judge a situation. Everyone is different, pursuing different aspects of life... a life which is about finding happiness and what brings a person joy. His current situation is probably already more wonderful than you can imagine.

To @Studio E - Good luck brother. I hope you get that doorway in. Maybe shoot Christian (at Spitfire) or Troels (at 8dio’s) a message. They may be able to point you in a direction of a composer friend. They each truly enjoy helping others find their joy.


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## Studio E (Jan 6, 2019)

Hey guys, thanks for the suggestions for those of you who understand my position. Yup, just trying to make something happen as a personal thing for me. Not for development, not for networking, not to become the next Hollywood A-lister. Here's how I should have put it. You know how you wanted to vacation in France, Morocco, a Mexican beach, Climb Everest, go skiing in the Alps? Yeah, that's what this is for me.

Thank you @storyteller for stating what you did. It's pretty much a perfect summary of where I am at and coming from. I would add to the pursuit of joy, the pursuit of your art at the highest level possible, and to me, this would be a part of that.

@Desire Inspires I'm not sure where to start. This forum has almost ALWAYS seemed more professional and encouraging than your suggestion that I've written a "sad thread" as a "_A 50 year old man (who) is willing to basically pimp himself out just to gain an experience_". I am slow to brag or dote on myself. I am a humble, fairly private, and giving individual. It's part of my strength as whatever level of artist I am. Perhaps that equates into the lack of self-marketing and being one "_of the worst business people out here_". I try not to judge others for really anything other than just not being a decent human themselves.

I am regretting writing this response as I don't really know you at all and any response at all is probably too much energy, but it's also cathartic for me today in particular so I'll save my regret and spend it later on the next demo I listen to with an 808 on it.

My wife supports me more than I could ever expect. Between my time scoring, recording artists, mixing albums, and studying craft, I also work a full-time 40 hours+ per week job. One that pays the bills rather well in fact and also has a real retirement pension attached to it. That job has allowed her and I many vacations, including on that beach you mention, only instead of filming it and "_pimping out_" my personal life in order to advance my music career, we just enjoyed the trip and embedded beautiful memories of our time there, plus a few select pictures. She also bought me tickets to see Hans in Nashville last year which was a dream come true. My dream, not hers, but she was happy to support driving 6 hours and spending the money to make it happen.

What "long term satisfaction" I derive from "_getting coffee and donuts for some compose_r" is personal to me. It's not even my choice, it's just what I want to do. Of course I would be disappointed if that's what it truly ended up being, but then again, would I really? If I was a fly on the wall while some seriously amazing artistry was created, or maybe even got to be the smallest part of the process? Would that be so bad? If it was, should you really care? 

Finally, if you are interested, you can take a look at a few (out of hundreds now) projects I have scored. Nothing Earth-shattering in here, but have worked for national brands and scored for video production companies who have worked with Marvel, Disney, Lucasfilms, etc etc.... Again, I don't derive joy from showing what I've done. In fact, I really detest the whole look-at-me attitude, and that may be one of my great downfalls in the pursuit of being a major star of the scoring world, but I kind of feel that, based on your comments, maybe you need a direct link to what I have done (below). Then again you could have just hovered over my profile pick and clicked the same link.

As for everyone else, sorry for the shit-show. I hope everyone is having a good Sunday 

https://ericwatkinsmusic.com/videos


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## Desire Inspires (Jan 6, 2019)

Studio E said:


> I am not asking for this as a favor. I am willing to pay a pretty penny for the experience.



The thread title says "Please, looking for a one-time, paid, short professional experience."

So which is it, you want to be paid or pay for an experience?

Sorry, but you make no sense.

Your desparation is hurtful to other hard-working musicians who are willing to put in the work to make things happen. This "woe-is-me" attitude is exactly why people can't find decent paying work these days. You'll pay to get people coffee and complain on forums instead of picking up the phone and cold-calling people in the industry? This is sad indeed.


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## Studio E (Jan 6, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> The thread title says "Please, looking for a one-time, paid, short professional experience."
> 
> So which is it, you want to be paid or pay for an experience?
> 
> ...



And this is why my reply was a waste. I have explained it clearly and you just don't get it, and that's fine. There's really no need for you in particular to understand.


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## jononotbono (Jan 6, 2019)

Studio E said:


> And this is why my reply was a waste. I have explained it clearly and you just don't get it, and that's fine. There's really no need for you in particular to understand.



Hey man, Happy New Year and I hope you find the right dirty composer to hang out with. Free or not, sometimes all it takes is to be surrounded by highly driven, motivated, working and positive (on the surface haha) people! I reckon you should pick someone and B line for them. Nobody is gonna call you so you have to do the knocking yourself


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## chillbot (Jan 6, 2019)

If there's one thing we've learned on this forum isn't it to ignore anything posted by Deisre Inspires? I didn't even read the posts and I know how it went. Ignore and move on...


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## Desire Inspires (Jan 30, 2019)

So did the OP ever get his “experience”?


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## Studio E (Jan 31, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> So did the OP ever get his “experience”?



I wouldn’t want to further burden you with more of this “sad thread”.


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## Desire Inspires (Jan 31, 2019)

Studio E said:


> I wouldn’t want to further burden you with more of this “sad thread”.



I take that as a no.

It’s all good, man.


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## impressions (Feb 7, 2019)

Go to a masterclass. 
There are online and real. Probably through some global IP legal companies who take care of royalties like ASCAP. They might have a newsletter in these areas. 

Another options is to search for a kickstarter project of said Hollywood composer which one of the rewards for backing him could probably be just that. Drinking tea with him. 

I did a few masterclasses with some Hollywood hot shots. They listened to some of my work and encouraged me/ gave me the assurance I’ve got what it takes. Heh. Almost.


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## Desire Inspires (Feb 8, 2019)

impressions said:


> I did a few masterclasses with some Hollywood hot shots. They listened to some of my work and encouraged me/ gave me the assurance I’ve got what it takes. Heh. Almost.



Almost? What happened?


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