# J. Offenbach - "Galop Infernal" / Strauss Blue D. digital mockup



## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 13, 2017)

Hej Guys,

Mocked up a few bars from the J. Offenbach "Orpheus in the underworld", act 2, the "Galop infernale". Very famous piece of music. I created a 2 minutes arrangement, this was done practically in 12 hours around (every day one hour or 2 in the morning mostly). It was fun to do as I do love those marches because they are fun to listen to and very powerful, yet very effectively written music imo.
It took me really some testing regarding the dynamics and blending of the orchestral instruments, room and weight which is always difficult to create with samples I find, especially those huge "tuttish" Baboooms.

Any thoughts?

Libraries used here:

Spitfire symphonic / Chamber strings
OT - Berlin Strings (main lib)
Spitire Symphonic Brass (exp. incl)
Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds
Spitfire Albion
OT symphonic sphere
Adventure Brass



Edit: 
And the workflow version of Strauss Blue Danube which isn´t yet complete / finished (see page 2 of the thread).


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## Paul T McGraw (Jun 13, 2017)

Great work! I wish I could hit like button two or three times!

There are so many steps that have to be done well to get to this point. Entering all of the notes. Selecting appropriate articulations, controlling dynamics, mixing, reverb, and mastering. But I find one of the most difficult, if not THE most difficult is getting the balance right. Especially when combining libraries from different sources. You did an AWESOME job with every aspect of this. It is brilliant.

Interesting that you had to resort to using Adventure Brass when you already have Spitfire Symphonic Brass. I love the trombones on the descending line first heard at 1:39. Very believable. Was that Spitfire or Adventure Brass or both? The strings also sound amazing. Were you blending all three libraries throughout?

If you don't mind my asking, how many slave computers are you using? Both Spitfire and OT are memory hogs, so I cannot imagine doing this on one computer, unless you bounced to stems, then mixed. But that would make it even harder to get the balance right. Please share your setup if you have time.


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## ctsai89 (Jun 13, 2017)

Can't get more realistic sounding than this. Bravo! Maestro Schiborr once again.


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## FriFlo (Jun 13, 2017)

Very nice work! If you want some suggestions:
I find it a bit heavy at times, I think it's the brass ...
It's lagging a bit ... IMO a little bit faster tempo and more free timing would help a lot.
The chord motive (at 0:26) could use more marcato. It feels a little bit like a swell. This is also the brass mostly, I think.
Just a few suggestions, over all I like it!


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## Saxer (Jun 13, 2017)

Well done


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## Carles (Jun 13, 2017)

I agree with Friflo.
Coincidentally I'm working on some classical renditions in my insomnia time and this is one of them 

When it comes to tempo, if I have to choose, I personally tend to slower versions than too fast ones (allowing clearer expression than if rushed up) but in this case found that mostly versions are pretty fast so my version is also (much) faster than yours (had to take the same decision with Rossini's William Tell overture where again mostly versions are -really- fast because I do intend to make these mockups profitable so find convenient to satisfy the average taste).

I think also that woodwinds could be more present (after the intro I mean. Missing all of them but piccolo specially as that little guy can easily be heard on top of a full orchestra playing FF and is barely heard here).

You first triangle hit is not in the score I have used and neither the strings end of phase heard at 1:58 and 2:02

Please let me know if you want me to send you my midifile and score so you can check versus yours.

Cheers!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 13, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Great work! I wish I could hit like button two or three times!
> 
> There are so many steps that have to be done well to get to this point. Entering all of the notes. Selecting appropriate articulations, controlling dynamics, mixing, reverb, and mastering. But I find one of the most difficult, if not THE most difficult is getting the balance right. Especially when combining libraries from different sources. You did an AWESOME job with every aspect of this. It is brilliant.
> 
> ...



Thank you for words, Paul. Much appreciated. I am a bit buzzed already, so I am coming with a more detailed explanation tomorrow. But no, I am using not at all any additional computers, just one single machine here. At that part you mentioned at 1:39 I have used both spitfire brass, and adventure brass (with quantum leap spaces) to move them a bit into the sound (also a bit eq). So in the marching parts that is mostly trombones and trumpets of Adventure brass but fattened up with spitfire symphonic brass. (mostly the fanfare patches) and some solo patches like trumpets A1 for additional room presence and bite.


ctsai89 said:


> Can't get more realistic sounding than this. Bravo! Maestro Schiborr once again.



Thank you charles Tsai,

Very nice words from you, hope you are allright? Wasn´t easy to implement the different samplers though.



FriFlo said:


> Very nice work! If you want some suggestions:
> I find it a bit heavy at times, I think it's the brass ...
> It's lagging a bit ... IMO a little bit faster tempo and more free timing would help a lot.
> The chord motive (at 0:26) could use more marcato. It feels a little bit like a swell. This is also the brass mostly, I think.
> Just a few suggestions, over all I like it!



Hi Fire Flo ,that is again my misstypo, but still I like fire-flo, I inherently read the fire there, because you do tremendous cool compositions which I think are really top notch. No shit, thats true, checked out several works from you, top notch.
Besides that: Thank you for the tips and hints. Mabye the low brass could be more gentle? Yes, good idea. Even Faster? I don´t know if the samples can handle that? Maybe with the timemachine patches?



Saxer said:


> Well done



Cool Picture..definitely not that flexible and I dance like shit..lol! :D



Carles said:


> I agree with Friflo.
> Coincidentally I'm working on some classical renditions in my insomnia time and this is one of them
> 
> When it comes to tempo, if I have to choose, I personally tend to slower versions than too fast ones (allowing clearer expression than if rushed up) but in this case found that mostly versions are pretty fast so my version is also (much) faster than yours (had to take the same decision with Rossini's William Tell overture where again mostly versions are -really- fast because I do intend to make these mockups profitable so find convenient to satisfy the average taste).
> ...



Hi Carles,
Thank you for chiming in. Its been a while since we spoke. Well, sure feel free to send me a midi over, I will check that then. Thank you very much. Curious: Do you have a rendition to post here? Just curious about your interpretation. You do fantastic mockups, I remember listening to your mars Mockup of holst and the synchronisation you did on YT which was top notch holy moly! Highest respect there.


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## Illico (Jun 13, 2017)

Big job
Good result
Nice choice.


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## Carles (Jun 13, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hi Carles,
> Thank you for chiming in. Its been a while since we spoke. Well, sure feel free to send me a midi over, I will check that then. Thank you very much. Curious: Do you have a rendition to post here? Just curious about your interpretation. You do fantastic mockups, I remember listening to your mars Mockup of holst and the synchronisation you did on YT which was top notch holy moly! Highest respect there.



Yeah, it's been a while!
Ok, I've sent them via your regular mail.
(snare drum was not in the score so I wrote what I could hear in some recordings)

My rendition is still in progress so take it with a grain of salt! (but possibly enough to illustrate the points above).
- VSL woodwinds (doubled with some OT)
- Hollywood Brass with SF bass bones and PSAM tuba
- SF Percussion with Cineperc triangles and VSL bass drum
- Mural+Sable



As it is WIP and still can fix things some feedback also on mine would be welcome. It's always great having some extra pairs of ears!

Cheers!


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## Paul T McGraw (Jun 13, 2017)

Carles said:


> Yeah, it's been a while!
> Ok, I've sent them via your regular mail.
> (snare drum was not in the score so I wrote what I could hear in some recordings)
> 
> ...




Wow, another great performance! Your woodwinds sound fantastic. Strings also sound great. I like your tempo and the tempo variations. The first 20 seconds are truly excellent. 

When you get to the full tutti sections the mix sounds sort of muddy to my ears. I am not great with mixing and engineering, so I am not sure why. As soon as we get back to strings and woodwinds, it clears up again.

As I listen now for the third time I just can not tell where the muddiness is coming from. I listened on my Sennheiser and AKG headphones as well as my AudioEngine 5+ monitors just to be sure.


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## ctsai89 (Jun 13, 2017)

@AlexanderSchiborr I've always listened carefully for what sounds organic and what doesn't when it comes to mockups and compared to actual performances/recordings. Second by each milliseconds of these mockups I'm listening very carefully. You and Andy Blaney are probably the only composers whose mockups are indistinguishable from what's real as I've noticed so far, to my ears. I assume this mockup is in the early stage? only thing is I think yea I do agree with fire flo about the brass but I think it's the Trumpets playing those marcatos too long in the high dynamic on a few notes. Obviously I am a no one compared to you at mockups but at the part where your trumpets play D... E G F# E A. A. ABF#G etc: the quarter notes that play the A sounded like the high dynamics were sustained for too long. Not saying it needs to be an accent but it can sound a bit more like if the trumpet players blowing hard into the note and immediately relaxes to have a smooth release. So that the brassy bright sound only lasts on the first half of the quarter note. I may be wrong but do you think that would make more sense?


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 13, 2017)

I'm a fan of yours, you regularly show impressive abilities and wonderful cinematic pieces. In this case, I'm half impressed, If you are going to post famous classical mock ups, it is expected that some will be more critical. I enjoyed very much until at 45sec and every time the loud section occurs, the big section didn't do it for me. Ok, it's louder with heavier texture, but still needs to feel light and fun, what I'm hearing here is heavy and harsh sounding (to my ears), like pounding accents. I remember I felt the same about the mock up you did with the William Tell Overture, I was hearing these heavy compressed accents which sucked all the charm out of the the light string motif. I know it's not easy to pull off, I don't think I'd try it myself. Hope you don't mind my criticism.  I'm still a fan.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 14, 2017)

Guy Bacos said:


> I'm a fan of yours, you regularly show impressive abilities and wonderful cinematic pieces. In this case, I'm half impressed, If you are going to post famous classical mock ups, it is expected that some will be more critical. I enjoyed very much until at 45sec and every time the loud section occurs, the big section didn't do it for me. Ok, it's louder with heavier texture, but still needs to feel light and fun, what I'm hearing here is heavy and harsh sounding (to my ears), like pounding accents. I remember I felt the same about the mock up you did with the William Tell Overture, I was hearing these heavy compressed accents which sucked all the charm out of the the light string motif. I know it's not easy to pull off, I don't think I'd try it myself. Hope you don't mind my criticism.  I'm still a fan.



Guy, no problem at all. Yes I remember you mentioned very similiar things on the Rossini Piece a while ago. I guess the heavy feel on those accents is a matter of mixing (maybe I should lower the ambience mic of Bassdrum e.g. a little) in combination with the compression on the masterbus. Still it is not easy to blend all those sounds together..I find it sometimes extremely hard to find that right balance.
Overall what I often see and once again noticed also here that the live orchestra is capable of loud dynamics which the sampled orchestra is also but it often struggles with the musicality there because it is not performed in context. And believe me, I try to do some tricks to fake things..sometimes it is hilarous what I do with my samples as they were not intended to use it this way or the other..:D


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## Paul T McGraw (Jun 14, 2017)

Guy Bacos said:


> I'm a fan of yours, you regularly show impressive abilities and wonderful cinematic pieces. In this case, I'm half impressed, If you are going to post famous classical mock ups, it is expected that some will be more critical. I enjoyed very much until at 45sec and every time the loud section occurs, the big section didn't do it for me. Ok, it's louder with heavier texture, but still needs to feel light and fun, what I'm hearing here is heavy and harsh sounding (to my ears), like pounding accents. I remember I felt the same about the mock up you did with the William Tell Overture, I was hearing these heavy compressed accents which sucked all the charm out of the the light string motif. I know it's not easy to pull off, I don't think I'd try it myself. Hope you don't mind my criticism.  I'm still a fan.



I firmly acknowledge that there are people on this forum with much better musical "ears" than I and you are most definitely one of those people. That said, I hope you will not discourage others from doing midi performances of classical works. For those of us who have not attained the level of skill we hope to attain, I think doing a midi performance of a known work is a great way to stretch ourselves and better learn how to use our instruments. 

I know it is really hard for me after hours and hours of time spent working on a midi performance to maintain perspective about the objective quality of the sound. As a result, in my opinion, doing a classical piece or film score mockup, is a great way to improve skills because we have a real performance with real musicians for comparison. And upon posting on this forum, masters such as yourself can offer tips for further improvement because you have actual performances for reference.


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## Carles (Jun 14, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> When you get to the full tutti sections the mix sounds sort of muddy to my ears. I am not great with mixing and engineering, so I am not sure why. As soon as we get back to strings and woodwinds, it clears up again.


Thanks Paul!
I understand "muddiness" (and I might be wrong) as when the low end takes too much of the dynamic field not allowing room enough for the high frequencies, and indeed the forte moments meet all the requirements for such circumstance (double basses, tuba and bass drum all playing forte together) however I'm not getting muddiness here but just a messy low end (as it happen with the real thing on a big hall).
Beyer Dynamic DT 770, DT 880 and AKG Q(K)701 here, no surprise with the AKG (as I'm not using any pre-amp and perhaps because of that I always felt these lacking low end), but the Beyerdynamic, specially the 770 deliver a quite rich low end so I don't know what else to use for checking.
Certainly you listening in three different devices (thanks a lot for that) and getting muddiness in all three it's a bit concerning (my speakers are pair of previous generation ADAM A7, nice highs but also no much low end either).

I'll try to cut some more frequencies even I cannot hear them just in case (I'm doing that lately because sometimes I get clippings in places where I cannot hear audible abusive frequencies).
Again thanks for your input Paul, much appreciated.


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 14, 2017)

That's interesting Paul, you probably have better equipment than I do, and I remember you were right about a piece where I had too much lows, but in Carles mock up, I'm not hearing any muddiness at all. Maybe there is some, but I just wanted to say that I'm not hearing it.


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## Paul T McGraw (Jun 14, 2017)

Carles said:


> Thanks Paul!
> I understand "muddiness" (and I might be wrong) as when the low end takes too much of the dynamic field not allowing room enough for the high frequencies, and indeed the forte moments meet all the requirements for such circumstance (double basses, tuba and bass drum all playing forte together) however I'm not getting muddiness here but just a messy low end (as it happen with the real thing on a big hall).
> Beyer Dynamic DT 770, DT 880 and AKG Q(K)701 here, no surprise with the AKG (as I'm not using any pre-amp and perhaps because of that I always felt these lacking low end), but the Beyerdynamic, specially the 770 deliver a quite rich low end so I don't know what else to use for checking.
> Certainly you listening in three different devices (thanks a lot for that) and getting muddiness in all three it's a bit concerning (my speakers are pair of previous generation ADAM A7, nice highs but also no much low end either).
> ...



It may just be my equipment, or my ears! It is always amazing to me how different a midi mix can sound with different speakers or different headphones. This seems to be more exaggerated with midi than a live recording. I don't know why.

Anyway, I suggest not making any major changes unless someone else reports hearing the same thing. 

I am thinking about getting Sonarworks so that I can have perfectly flat monitors, just for this reason.


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## Paul T McGraw (Jun 14, 2017)

Guy Bacos said:


> That's interesting Paul, you probably have better equipment than I do, and I remember you were right about a piece where I had too much lows, but in Carles mock up, I'm not hearing any muddiness at all. Maybe there is some, but I just wanted to say that I'm not hearing it.



If you do not have better equipment than I, you should! Because you have MONSTER composition and midi performance chops. I'm glad I could help you a little bit on that one mix, and I guess we all need friends to help us now and then, and some like me need more help than most. 

For Carles mix, it could just be me, or my equipment. 

Have you noticed that midi performances seem more sensitive to the play back equipment than live performances, or is it my imagination?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 16, 2017)

@Guy Bacos @Paul T McGraw @Carles

I have also been working on Strauss - Blue Danube Waltz and a bit more than 2 minutes done (6 or something more to go), it is still in a production stage, but in case you guys have interest in the production process, I could upload it or sent to you. I know...this track should be better not done with samples..but I try hard..as hell to make at least a descent impression, sure with your input it could get even better. Just let me know if you are interested. Thank you.


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## patrick76 (Jun 17, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> @Guy Bacos @Paul T McGraw @Carles
> 
> I have also been working on Strauss - Blue Danube Waltz and a bit more than 2 minutes done (6 or something more to go), it is still in a production stage, but in case you guys have interest in the production process, I could upload it or sent to you. I know...this track should be better not done with samples..but I try hard..as hell to make at least a descent impression, sure with your input it could get even better. Just let me know if you are interested. Thank you.


Hi Alexander,
I can't speak for Guy, Paul, and Carles, but if you were inclined to post the Strauss here I would enjoy seeing your process. I would imagine many people on VIC would. Thanks for sharing. All the best.


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## Paul T McGraw (Jun 17, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> @Guy Bacos @Paul T McGraw @Carles
> 
> I have also been working on Strauss - Blue Danube Waltz and a bit more than 2 minutes done (6 or something more to go), it is still in a production stage, but in case you guys have interest in the production process, I could upload it or sent to you. I know...this track should be better not done with samples..but I try hard..as hell to make at least a descent impression, sure with your input it could get even better. Just let me know if you are interested. Thank you.



Yes I would be very interested in your production process. Please share what you have so far.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Jun 17, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> I am thinking about getting Sonarworks so that I can have perfectly flat monitors, just for this reason.



I also use Sonarworks but with headphones only (Senn HD280 PRO and HD800 for mixing/mastering) as it is very difficult to calibrate/measure headphones in-house. They offer a whole list of them in the setup (and you can even have your own pair measured).

For monitors/speakers in the studio I use IK ARC 2 which works very well in correcting the room response below 300Hz especially.

@Alexander : very well done !! A bit slow sometimes (a personal choice) and somehow heavy/muddy at times but this is a very difficult piece to mix I'm sure. You composing and mixing skills never cease to amaze me.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 19, 2017)

Hi @Paul T McGraw & @patrick76

Ok, I was hesitating to post it, I had some real struggle if I really should because the chances are pretty high to look like a midi douchebag. Anyways please consider guys that this is an excerpt, Plus in a state of production. My workflow experience thus far: It´s incredibly hard (for me) to mock that piece up with samples.


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## Marcin M (Jun 19, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hi @Paul T McGraw & @patrick76
> 
> Ok, I was hesitating to post it, I had some real struggle if I really should because the chances are pretty high to look like a midi douchebag. Anyways please consider guys that this is an excerpt, Plus in a state of production. My workflow experience thus far: It´s incredibly hard (for me) to mock that piece up with samples.




Sounds really good, I would believe that these strings are real, what library did You used?


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 19, 2017)

Alexander. sounds good so far, I like it. Slightly on the heavy or dark side in places, I know I keep saying that like a broken record, sorry. At 1:41, is it a mistake? It seems quite off the rhythm for a sec or 2.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 19, 2017)

Guy Bacos said:


> Alexander. sounds good so far, I like it. Slightly on the heavy or dark side in places, I know I keep saying that like a broken record, sorry. At 1:41, is it a mistake? It seems quite off the rhythm for a sec or 2.



Hi Guy,
Thanks. No, its fine and thanks helping.Dark and heavy? Can you explain a little to me. Not sure what you mean here. Thank you. Yes..there is this 1 second thing which I need to fix in the tempo curve.



Marcin M said:


> Sounds really good, I would believe that these strings are real, what library did You used?



I used here:
Spitfire Chamber Strings, symphonic strings, Cinematic Studio Strings, Berlin Strings & Kirk Hunter Violins.


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## patrick76 (Jun 19, 2017)

Well for it being in a state of production it is sounding quite nice. As for being heavy, maybe when it is building and into the first forte part, in the trem strings part, not sure it is actually the strings making it a touch heavy or if it is from brass or winds, like maybe it could use a little cut of eq? (btw, could be the room I'm listening in too, so take my observation with a grain of salt!) but overall is great and really this is a minor minor thing especially in a work in progress. Thanks a lot for sharing it. It's nice to see what people can accomplish with these pieces using samples. Great job!

Also, the term "midi douchebag" ..... fantastic!


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## Guy Bacos (Jun 19, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hi Guy,
> Thanks. No, its fine and thanks helping.Dark and heavy? Can you explain a little to me. Not sure what you mean here. Thank you. Yes..there is this 1 second thing which I need to fix in the tempo curve.



At 37 sec, for instance, instead of distinctly hearing the timp roll, I'm hearing a scary dark sound in which I have a hard time distinguishing the instruments. I know you want to get a bigger sound, but I think in classical music, more than in film music, or epic scores, you don't want to lose the individuality of each section too much, and I find when to go for the bigger sound, in your classical mock ups, we lose that sometimes. Having said that, you still achieve a great sound, just not the classical sound for me. That's why I don't touch this stuff.  But it's still enjoyable to listen to and in the lighter places I have nothing to say.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 19, 2017)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> I also use Sonarworks but with headphones only (Senn HD280 PRO and HD800 for mixing/mastering) as it is very difficult to calibrate/measure headphones in-house. They offer a whole list of them in the setup (and you can even have your own pair measured).
> 
> For monitors/speakers in the studio I use IK ARC 2 which works very well in correcting the room response below 300Hz especially.
> 
> @Alexander : very well done !! A bit slow sometimes (a personal choice) and somehow heavy/muddy at times but this is a very difficult piece to mix I'm sure. You composing and mixing skills never cease to amaze me.



Hi Tatjana,
Thanks a lot for the words. Yes, its not that easy in some spots to get the sound and balance right.


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## Paul T McGraw (Jun 20, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hi @Paul T McGraw & @patrick76
> 
> Ok, I was hesitating to post it, I had some real struggle if I really should because the chances are pretty high to look like a midi douchebag. Anyways please consider guys that this is an excerpt, Plus in a state of production. My workflow experience thus far: It´s incredibly hard (for me) to mock that piece up with samples.




Delightful, thank you! I do think Guy is correct that something is off at 1:41. I found the mix to be very clear and well balanced. At this point it sounds like a full symphony orchestra. You might bring out the woodwinds a bit more.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jun 26, 2017)

Hey Guys,
Like promised I keep you updated on my progress, actually the first version I posted last was Version 7, now here is version 17,stopping at 4:04. There is still 4 min to render. After that I have to rescan and sculpture some details. I keep the old version online, just for comparison purpose. Version 8-16 are on my stick as workflow version. Anyone who is interested in them, I could up them on DB.
Here we go:
Update Version V17

Old Version V7


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## patrick76 (Jun 27, 2017)

The overall sound I think is nice on both versions. Is there a recording to which you are trying to match the sound? Just curious how you are going about deciding that here. And it may be because I have had very little sleep, but on first listen to the new version I thought a couple parts might have sounded a little bit out of tune? Not sure, will have to listen again when my head isn't so foggy. 

Thanks for posting! It is cool to see how you are evolving this piece. I did notice a bit less heaviness of the louder parts so whatever you have done there seems to have succeeded well! Good luck on the rest of this project. I cannot imagine the massive amount of work involved.


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## Marcin M (Jun 29, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hey Guys,
> Like promised I keep you updated on my progress, actually the first version I posted last was Version 7, now here is version 17,stopping at 4:04. There is still 4 min to render. After that I have to rescan and sculpture some details. I keep the old version online, just for comparison purpose. Version 8-16 are on my stick as workflow version. Anyone who is interested in them, I could up them on DB.
> Here we go:
> Update Version V17
> ...




I don't know if it's on purpose, but for me percussion at 1:40 is a bit off, and also don't remember how it was in original, but for me at 2:06 could be cymbal hit


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 10, 2017)

Hey Guys,

Here is a BIG update on the Piece, I tried to even out the sound to match more a classical live recording:

But don´t ask me about the work..it is hefty what is going on behind the playback here...almost working with 6-7 different string libraries at the same time..makes it working like on a puzzle with 10K little pieces of samples put together . The tempo Curve contains I am not sure, but I guess around 1K Nodes+. 

I hope I don´t get crazy with that one 



That was btw Version 27.


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## Ben E (Jul 13, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Hej Guys,
> 
> Mocked up a few bars from the J. Offenbach "Orpheus in the underworld", act 2, the "Galop infernale". Very famous piece of music.



Hey this might seem like a weird question, but how are you processing/mixing/miking the triangle near the beginning of the Offenbach piece? It sounds so much better than when I use triangle. (I struggle with triangle and glock.) For me it's either too present and dry or too "reverbed" and never sits in the room/hall realistically. I use Spitfire and no mic combo seems to do the trick. Is there a secret or is this just a case of the Sandwich Psychology: sandwiches always seem to taste better when someone else makes them for you.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 13, 2017)

Ben E said:


> Hey this might seem like a weird question, but how are you processing/mixing/miking the triangle near the beginning of the Offenbach piece? It sounds so much better than when I use triangle. (I struggle with triangle and glock.) For me it's either too present and dry or too "reverbed" and never sits in the room/hall realistically. I use Spitfire and no mic combo seems to do the trick. Is there a secret or is this just a case of the Sandwich Psychology: sandwiches always seem to taste better when someone else makes them for you.



You are right,no mic combo does the trick, because the triangle micing isn´t accurate at all, so what I do is to take most ambient setting I get out plus I eq the triangle to fake the proximity effect of distance more. Also I add an instance QL Spaces dial back the direct signal aswell.


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