# Pricing music for direct licensing



## Jeradatherton (Feb 5, 2018)

When licensing my music directly to users (wedding, podcast, marketing, small business, etc.):

1. How do I determine fair pricing?
2. Are there pre-written contracts I could use? I saw one on www.rocketlawyer.com. Other recommendations?

Anyone advice on how to handle these transactions would be helpful.
Thank you.


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## wst3 (Feb 5, 2018)

That's how I started, and oddly enough, that's where I find myself today.

Back in the late 1980s, early 1990s it was pretty easy to determine pricing, at least in my market. There were a handful of local composers who had set pricing expectations (and set them fairly to all I might add), and I just rode on their coattails.

At the time I had a lawyer friend draw up the contract. I believe I paid $300 for that service, and then I was allowed to use the contract forever, or until such time as it needed to be updated. That happened once, and I don't remember why. But it was another $100, so it was quite reasonable.

Starting fresh today - ugh!

Pricing is a real challenge! We are competing with people that will do this for free, or for very little money, and even worse, the practice of using commercial hit music has not gone away, at least not in smaller markets. I think it is less prevalent than when I started, but you still hear local ads over music beds from pop tunes, and I'm reasonably certain they didn't license them.

Anyway, I'm still trying to figure out that part myself. I still have friends in radio, so I've asked them what their clients are paying for custom music. That'll take a while to gather, and not all their clients are likely to be forthcoming. It will be interesting.

The contract, on the other hand, is easy. You can find them on the web, but I'm going to find an attorney that is comfortable with this stuff and pay them to draw up a contract I can use. Not only do I then avoid needed to learn current contract law<G>, but I have a resource should I run into problems.

If/when you speak with an attorney let them know you want a contract that specifies at least the following (this is what I do remember):

what will be provided: 30 sec, 60 sec, donut, full mix, 5.1 mix, stems, etc
delivery format - compressed, standard def, high def, stereo, multi-channel, etc

delivery method(s) - CD, DVD, MP3 or WAV, downloads, etc

how the music will be used - soundtrack, advertising, radio, internet, etc
the duration of the initial contract, and how it can be extended
geographical limits, if applicable
optional) terms for refreshing the music
The idea is to nail down as many of the details as you can so there are no arguments later on.

Good luck!!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 8, 2018)

As far as pricing goes for these types of small businesses, you practically give it away. Just make sure you don't license it to them exclusively. If they want that, then you need to negotiate a buy-out price, which should be enough to justify. There are no "set rates".


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## GtrString (Feb 9, 2018)

why not go to stock music library sites and see what prices they have? you can then charge more or less dependent on your brand value and unique selling proposition.


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## wst3 (Feb 9, 2018)

GtrString said:


> why not go to stock music library sites and see what prices they have? you can then charge more or less dependent on your brand value and unique selling proposition.


I've been at this for more than a few days - I feel really dumb right now, I never thought of that! Absolutely spot on!


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## mc_deli (Feb 9, 2018)

GtrString said:


> why not go to stock music library sites and see what prices they have?


Because there are more stock libraries (offering music for peanuts or unlimited music for a small monthly fee) than composers!

I think we need to get out there and make the "solve the film crunch, unlimited film footage service by composers for composers, so the cost and hassle of the visuals of the movie don't hold you back"... oh and unlimited graphics, unlimited voice overs, unlimited cartoons, unlimited talking animals...

Is there anyone out there that still doesn't think this is very rapid race to the bottom?


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## Desire Inspires (Feb 9, 2018)

mc_deli said:


> Is there anyone out there that still doesn't think this is very rapid race to the bottom?



I don’t.

I often hear or read about some “race-to-the-bottom”, but never see it happen.

Is this some sort of urban legend?


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## wst3 (Feb 9, 2018)

First, checking various music libraries for pricing does not mean you have to join the race to the bottom. It is a source of marketing intelligence, that's all. And the prices from different libraries are all over the map, so it sets the top and bottom, but I don't know that it helps one set their own pricing.

Second, the race to the bottom is very real. It is happening in all sorts of places, music composition and production is but one.


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## Desire Inspires (Feb 9, 2018)

wst3 said:


> First, checking various music libraries for pricing does not mean you have to join the race to the bottom. It is a source of marketing intelligence, that's all. And the prices from different libraries are all over the map, so it sets the top and bottom, but I don't know that it helps one set their own pricing.
> 
> Second, the race to the bottom is very real. It is happening in all sorts of places, music composition and production is but one.



So when will we get to this proverbial “bottom”? I just think people say things like this out of fear or frustration or boredom. 

People are living relatively comfortable lives but always seem worried and scared about the future. Is the sky really falling? No, but people somehow see one small thing and turn it into the end of the world.

Relax, everything is fine.


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## Nmargiotta (Feb 9, 2018)

I got into this business on direct licensing and I always had to play the “what’s your budget” game. Now I was licensing custom music for ad campaigns, so it is a different beast, but getting an idea of what your client has in mind as far as cost goes along way. There is a reason they are approaching you as opposed to goin to a library. Determining why, and the what benefit they have in licensing from you, is key. 

If it’s just a friend who is an editor or director you can always ask them what they are currently paying or what they feel is the ballpark they are working in. Looking at libraries as a reference works as well. I’ve even offered my services as “music supervisor” by working with the clients to find the right price of music (they couldn’t afford custom) and charge a percentage of the total license cost. I typically work with a library like extreme music for those where it becomes worth my while.


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## GtrString (Feb 10, 2018)

I understand the race to the bottom feeling, it is very real also. But it is not something any one composer can solve on a global level. It will be more efficient to back up and get involved with the organizations that work to circumvent this, your PRO, vote for politics that support intellectual rights ect. That can provide larger scale change.

As an individual you have to navigate the market there are right now, and support long term changes.


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## wst3 (Feb 10, 2018)

Desire Inspires said:


> So when will we get to this proverbial “bottom”? I just think people say things like this out of fear or frustration or boredom.
> 
> People are living relatively comfortable lives but always seem worried and scared about the future. Is the sky really falling? No, but people somehow see one small thing and turn it into the end of the world.
> 
> Relax, everything is fine.


We will have to respectfully agree to disagree.

I can think of a number of examples of the race to the bottom - also known as "good enough it the new quality" - and I know a lot of folks who are not living as comfortably as they'd like, one of the core components of that comfortable life is security that it won't go away if a blink. No, none of these folks own, or even want 105 foot yachts!

But if you don't find it a matter of concern none of them will make much of an impression.

For a lot of my friends everything is decidedly not fine.


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## Daryl (Feb 12, 2018)

Desire Inspires said:


> So when will we get to this proverbial “bottom”? I just think people say things like this out of fear or frustration or boredom.
> 
> People are living relatively comfortable lives but always seem worried and scared about the future. Is the sky really falling? No, but people somehow see one small thing and turn it into the end of the world.
> 
> Relax, everything is fine.


Not that I want to be controversial, but from memory you are not yet really successful as a media composer, so I would wait until that happens before, you sit on your laurels. In my time in the industry I have seen incomes reduced to a quarter of what they used to be, yet people are working harder than ever. Streaming may be the future, for example, but so far it represents another income cut for composers.

Certinaly there is no cause for panic, but we must keep vigilant, and not just sit around, assuming that the world owes us a living.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 12, 2018)

Desire Inspires said:


> So when will we get to this proverbial “bottom”? I just think people say things like this out of fear or frustration or boredom.
> 
> People are living relatively comfortable lives but always seem worried and scared about the future. Is the sky really falling? No, but people somehow see one small thing and turn it into the end of the world.
> 
> Relax, everything is fine.



Yep, it's not THAT bad. The work is there, just depends how hard you want to work for it.


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## Desire Inspires (Mar 2, 2018)

Sorry, I do not want to derail this post.


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