# Fender acquires Presonus



## cedricm (Nov 1, 2021)

Not a good news IMHO.
Fender To Acquire PreSonus Electronics

*HOLLYWOOD, CALIF. (NOV. 1, 2021) - *Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC), the world’s leading musical instrument manufacturers, marketers and distributors, today announced it has signed a definitive agreement of merger with PreSonus Audio Electronics, Inc. The Baton Rouge, Louisiana based brand is the leading designer and manufacturer of recording and live-sound hardware and software solutions that solve real-world problems for working creatives. 

“We are thrilled to welcome everyone on the PreSonus team to the FMIC family and excited about the future growth opportunities available to both companies," said Andy Mooney, CEO Fender Musical Instruments Corp. “Our teams share the same passion for music, the same commitment to innovation and the same desire to inspire and equip current and future generations of artists”

“I would like to extend our utmost gratitude to our loyal Baton Rouge and Louisiana community that have supported PreSonus for the last two decades,” said Kevin Couhig, Chairman of PreSonus. “It has been wonderful being a part of this incredible journey with PreSonus. I’m excited to see what the future holds going forward”

"After more than 25 years PreSonus feels it has found the right partner to support us as we continue our growth,” said Jim Odom, Founder/CSO PreSonus. “We look forward to showing our current and future music community what this opportunity means for them.” 

“PreSonus and Fender's combined vision, the way we see the future of music creation, and the fundamental alignment of goals has made this an exciting idea since the first conversation," said Jim Boitnott, CEO PreSonus.

For more than 75 years, Fender has been committed to creating tools supporting artists. With each technological advancement, the way that people create and record music is constantly evolving. While most guitar and bass players still plug into amplifiers, many also plug their instruments into interfaces, using virtual amps and effects to create their sounds. Players of all levels are spending more time online than ever before and using a variety of products and technologies to learn, practice, jam and perform, record and share. This modern workflow has expanded the traditional signal chain to include capturing and distributing creative content to the world. Fender envisions an ecosystem that seamlessly integrates hardware and software to create an effortless end-to-end experience for customers at all levels in their creative journey, and joining forces with PreSonus makes that possible. 

Founded in 1995 by Jim Odom and Brian Smith, PreSonus designs innovative audio products that provide professional sound quality and features without sacrificing affordability. Throughout its history, PreSonus has built innovative tools for musicians, content creators, producers, and audio engineers. Today, PreSonus is a leading designer and manufacturer of both recording and live-sound hardware and software solutions that solve real-world problems for real working creatives. 

Completion of this merger is subject to U.S. regulatory approvals and other customary closing conditions. At this time, FMIC and PreSonus will continue to operate as separate entities.
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP acted as legal counsel to Fender Musical Instruments Corporation.
Presonus was advised by Robert W. Baird & Co. and legal counsel was provided by Butler Snow LLP. 

For technical specs, additional information on new Fender products and to find a retail partner near you, visit _www.fender.com_. Join the conversation on social media by following @Fender.


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## RSK (Nov 1, 2021)

cedricm said:


> Not a good news IMHO.
> Fender To Acquire PreSonus Electronics


I'd have to agree. Guitar companies don't seem to know what to do with recording tech companies once they buy them.


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## wst3 (Nov 1, 2021)

I think it is unfortunate. Small companies drive the marketplace, or used to anyway, but it is difficult to survive as a small company. You reach a point where you grow too large.

Presonus has always made really good gear for reasonable prices. I thought that branching out into studio monitors made sense, I was less sure about the microphones. Both of those markets are saturated, making it difficult for them to differentiate themselves.

Fender is, well, Fender. Their history is long, and storied, and not without a couple of speed bumps. Frankly I'd rather see Fender than Gibson, but I'm not sure either of them is really equipped to deal with audio interfaces and loudspeakers and (heaven help us) software.

So yeah, it is unfortunate. I guess now all we can do is hope for the best.


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## Macrawn (Nov 1, 2021)

This seems bad. I was thinking that PreSonus might get bought by that Native Instruments group. I think that would have been a better fit. I don't think Fender has anything that might add to the subscription appeal of studio one but I imagine they will enjoy raising the price of the sub anyway. If Fender stays out of the way it should be ok but I have my doubts.


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## Zanshin (Nov 1, 2021)

I for one can't wait to buy Fender Studio One Relic Edition.



RSK said:


> I'd have to agree. Guitar companies don't seem to know what to do with recording tech companies once they buy them.


Agreed.


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## AudioLoco (Nov 1, 2021)

....expect lots of Fender branded Presonus software products probably? More digital amps?

Other than that I just have the Gibson buying Opcode scenario in mind.... ajajaiii....


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## odod (Nov 1, 2021)

Gibson bought cakewalk .. and now look what they've become .. FREE heehehe, so we are hoping soon Studio One becomes free too


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## SirkusPi (Nov 1, 2021)

I suppose this is one advantage of being a Logic user--my DAW of choice is _already _owned by a big corporation (indeed, by one of the world's biggest mega-corps), so I guess I don't really have to worry about someone bigger buying it up!


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## cedricm (Nov 1, 2021)

odod said:


> Gibson bought cakewalk .. and now look what they've become .. FREE heehehe, so we are hoping soon Studio One becomes free too


No.
Gibson bougth Cakewalk and destroyed it in a few years.
You have Sonar for free because a start-up, BandLab, bought Cakewalk, or what was left of it.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Nov 1, 2021)

Oh well. Yamaha owns Steinberg and Fender owns Studio One. I don't have any Fender guitars, but I have Jacksons, and that's owned by Fender too. I also have Yamaha guitars. So far I've been fine.


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## tcollins (Nov 1, 2021)

Is this like Gibson buying Opcode and Baldwin?


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## FireGS (Nov 1, 2021)

Oh boy....


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## RSK (Nov 1, 2021)

tcollins said:


> Is this like Gibson buying Opcode and Baldwin?


I hope not. Presonus make some excellent interfaces, and there are a lot of poor, misguided souls who use Studio One.


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## gedlig (Nov 1, 2021)

RSK said:


> there are a lot of poor, misguided souls who use Studio One


Oi


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## puremusic (Nov 1, 2021)

I can't see how this is good news.


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## ka00 (Nov 1, 2021)

From now on, Studio One crashes will be referred to as fender benders.


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## Gabriel S. (Nov 1, 2021)

Why so many negative views about this?

Yamaha bought Steinberg in 2004 and they got better and better. Yamaha sells even marine engines, motorbikes, and so on...so, what's the problem with Fender? The Gibson case well...they filed from bankruptcy a few months after Cakewalk's abandonment. I guess that speaks for itself. Fender had a great 2020 year based on what I've read. And most of the companies they bought are still active I think.

Let's hope the best.


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## HeliaVox (Nov 1, 2021)

Totally having ptsd after Gibson destroyed my beloved Studio Vision


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## JohnG (Nov 1, 2021)

puremusic said:


> I can't see how this is good news.


The logic for a deal like this — speculating — is that both companies potentially gain additional heft when negotiating with distributors — online and brick-and-mortar.

I guess another possible piece of the logic is the blurring of software and hardware when thinking of guitar amps and sound generally. Whether you’re playing a guitar through an amp emulator or a Twin Reverb feels more interchangeable than it once did, both live and in the studio.

A few years ago, I recorded a world class guitar player for a movie and he brought a Pod — that was it — sounded great.

I didn’t see in the press release whether there would be any management consolidation or not.


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## FireGS (Nov 1, 2021)

RSK said:


> there are a lot of poor, misguided souls who use Studio One


U wot m8


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## cedricm (Nov 1, 2021)

Gabriel S. said:


> Why so many negative views about this?
> 
> Yamaha bought Steinberg in 2004 and they got better and better. Yamaha sells even marine engines, motorbikes, and so on...so, what's the problem with Fender? The Gibson case well...they filed from bankruptcy a few months after Cakewalk's abandonment. I guess that speaks for itself. Fender had a great 2020 year based on what I've read. And most of the companies they bought are still active I think.
> 
> Let's hope the best.


I also hope for the best, even though I fear the worst.

Presonus has a special place in my heart, because as a long time user of Sonar, I felt trapped when Cakewalk went under, and Presonus was the fastest DAW maker to come to rescue and offer a really great deal to switch to Studio One.

And it seems the acquisition of Adam Audio by Focusrite went well.

But those kind of acquisitions are generally only motivated by money.
Fender and Presonus don't have much in the way of synergies.
The press release is super vague and doesn't even try to justify the acquisition or the vision forward. Looks to me like the founders of Presonus want to cash out. I'd be glad to be proven wrong though.

I can't believe Presonus is in financial trouble, Studio One seems to sell well, and the Sphere subscription seems popular. Plus they make great hardware that also seems to be selling well.

So I don't see the need for money, nor where enormous investments to stay in the game would be needed.

Of course, I'm no insider, so _qui vivra verra_.


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## FireGS (Nov 1, 2021)

ka00 said:


> From now on, Studio One crashes will be referred to as fender benders.


Omg, that was their whole plan this time. Logo and name placement via Crash screen leads to more brand recognition.


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## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

RSK said:


> I hope not. Presonus make some excellent interfaces, and there are a lot of poor, misguided souls who use Studio One.


To me it's the opposite. After owning a number of PreSonus interfaces including 192, I went RME and never looked back. Studio One as a DAW is coming of age and is quite good for pop and EDM and now since v5.2 is viable for Orchestral work, although I did switch to Cubase in 2019 and am 100% happy.

I suppose it's all a moot point if we can't write good music, lol!


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## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

RSK said:


> I'd have to agree. Guitar companies don't seem to know what to do with recording tech companies once they buy them.


I'm curious about the list of relevant examples you are thinking of in this context


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## paul (Nov 1, 2021)

I used *Opcode Vision* right at the start back in the 80's - *they were an extremely supportive company to all their users* _(I worked professionally in broadcast back then)_.

Their backup was second to none (I was based in the UK and I could pick up the phone any time while I was in the middle of a job and talk to Opcode technical support in America immediately - _can you do that with any company now in 2021?_)

_Sad day when Gibson took them over and "basically shafted" the product._

I sincerely hope that it will not be the same scenario with Fender?

I have been using *Presonus Studio One from it's very early days* (_after trying out others like Logic etc....)_ and I'm still fairly happy with it.

Hopefully this won't be a repeat of the shameful Opcode/ Gibson episode.


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## Technostica (Nov 1, 2021)

Unless Fender also have a history of ruining companies that they acquire, I see no reason for a knee jerk reaction just because a different guitar company screwed up.
Spock not impressed.


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## ptram (Nov 1, 2021)

As the owner of some Opcode hardware and software, I can say that I'm hoping things will become signature sooner than vintage.

Paolo


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## Dewdman42 (Nov 1, 2021)

Fender doesn’t care about studio one. They wanted all the mixers and pa stuff. We shall see what they do with the software, it will depend entirely on whether presonus continues to function as an independent entity from fender and how much fender will continue funding indirect support and dev of software products will be left to be seen.

Every buyout like this is totally different we cannot say it will go the same way as Gibson nor yamaha. Wait and see. Odds are good in my opinion that fender focus will be hardware which does not bode well for studio one and notion, but we shall see


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## ptram (Nov 1, 2021)

Gabriel S. said:


> Yamaha sells even marine engines, motorbikes, and so on


Yamaha Music is managed independently from Yamaha Motor. And Yamaha is a multifaceted company, that next to acoustic instruments has been manufacturing synthesizers for decades. Owning a music software company is not something extraneous to their mission.

Paolo


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## JohnG (Nov 1, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> Odds are good in my opinion that fender focus will be hardware which does not bode well for studio one and notion, but we shall see


Not sure what leads you to that opinion, Dewd? Maybe it’s the other way around, that they are primarily a hardware company and want to diversify into software?

MOTU seems to me to be a relevant corollary, since they make very good interfaces and software as well. Since I use DP I’m very stoked that DP 11 has added so many new (and appetising) features lately.s

Whether any of these companies survives independently is always fun for speculation.


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## ptram (Nov 1, 2021)

JohnG said:


> I guess another possible piece of the logic is the blurring of software and hardware when thinking of guitar amps and sound generally. Whether you’re playing a guitar through an amp emulator


Fender is indeed experimenting with virtual amps and apps. Maybe they are deciding they want to go massive in this field, and found the company that could help them make the full chain – from software, to preamps, to computer/tablet interfaces.

Paolo


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## Dewdman42 (Nov 1, 2021)

@JohnG Well you know what they say about opinions and assholes, everyone has one 

As I said, wait and see, but if I were betting on it my bet would be the software will languish on the vine. We just have to wait and see.

As I said before, presonus sells a lot of hardware. That’s what fender wanted


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## lux (Nov 1, 2021)

dont make me slide back to Cubase please...dont


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## José Herring (Nov 1, 2021)

Oh no! Isn't that the same company that bought Opcode back in the day then killed it?


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## José Herring (Nov 1, 2021)

cedricm said:


> I also hope for the best, even though I fear the worst.
> 
> Presonus has a special place in my heart, because as a long time user of Sonar, I felt trapped when Cakewalk went under, and Presonus was the fastest DAW maker to come to rescue and offer a really great deal to switch to Studio One.
> 
> ...


I got the Quantum 2020 and it's a great interface. If FendSonus wants to make more like that I'm all in.


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## TintoL (Nov 1, 2021)

Well, in the history of mergers and acquiring companies, the potential of increased revenue will have to be quite substantial to justify the debt necessary for the acquisition. 

I honestly don't see this as a potential success story. 

I mean, fender guitars are practically intact in development to me. There is no important move in their technology from what I can see. I mean the stratocaster and telecaster are basically exactly the same.

And the floid rose implementation has been, well, almost none. Maybe except for the recent american ultra lux series. When ibanez has decades on it and even have their own patent for lower level floids. 

Their electronic experience is only with amps and pedals. I mean, what experience can they bring to this game other than seeking revenue.....?

Man, feels like autodesk acquiring softimage... which eventually died. LOL


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## Trash Panda (Nov 1, 2021)

Oh no! How will I write music anymore?


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## Dewdman42 (Nov 1, 2021)

Fender might be thinking they will get into the amp modeling space more which presonus could bring a lot of value, but honestly I see this as two very different companies, one perhaps bigger then the other and just trying to be like the borg

Most likely this merger is not at all about the tech it’s more about dollars and cents.

With any luck presonus will continue to operate totally independently from fender as a subsidiary of some kind and as long as they do well fender will keep feeding them R and D money


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## JohnG (Nov 1, 2021)

TintoL said:


> Well, in the history of mergers and acquiring companies, the potential of increased revenue will have to be quite substantial to justify the debt necessary for the acquisition.


That's not true, Tinto. First of all, not all acquisitions involve debt. Second, there can be cost cutting or margin improvements from other areas that can pay handsomely.

Obviously, the deal has to make sense financially, but typically in a deal like this there is a strategic rationale that dominates the thinking -- that both companies' efforts will work better because of adopting the best of each company's products, technology, distribution relationships, and people.


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## TintoL (Nov 1, 2021)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Oh well. Yamaha owns Steinberg and Fender owns Studio One. I don't have any Fender guitars, but I have Jacksons, and that's owned by Fender too. I also have Yamaha guitars. So far I've been fine.


I didn't know jackson was owned by fender. I guess they are keeping the fender brand untouched.


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## dcoscina (Nov 1, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Oh no! Isn't that the same company that bought Opcode back in the day then killed it?


no that was Gibson. They just acquired Mesa Boogie and it's been a nightmare...

Not good news here either. Studio One is my go-to DAW. The only silver lining is that Steinberg is making huge strides with Dorico so perhaps I just can use that in the future.... one can hope...


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## TintoL (Nov 1, 2021)

JohnG said:


> First of all, not all acquisitions involve debt. Second, there can be cost cutting or margin improvements from other areas that can pay handsomely.


I hope you are right John. In that sense you are right. Not all acquisitions are financed by debt.

I just find that I have seen this before, an acquisition, then shelved. Or crashes into been forgotten. 

I don't use presonus products, but, I find it's healthy to have few competitors seeking independent mindsets. I just find fender to be a dinosaur in comparison.


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## gsilbers (Nov 1, 2021)

RSK said:


> I'd have to agree. Guitar companies don't seem to know what to do with recording tech companies once they buy them.



true. Seems the whole point of buying these audio interface/daw companies is to bundle them up with their existing products.

buy a fender squire presonus package for $200 less than if you bought them separately. Thats about how baby boomers see these tech companies. And having access to their emailing list for spam.

And thats it. Any new idea from presonus will be AXED.


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## Alchemedia (Nov 1, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Oh no! How will I write music anymore?


Trade in Studio One for a Strat!


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## Technostica (Nov 1, 2021)

Stop rubbing your crystal balls so hard guys, you'll go blind.


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## AudioLoco (Nov 1, 2021)

About the Steinberg Yamaha aquisition:
Although they did not destroy the company, it's actually doing pretty, pretty well, they haven't added what was needed and expected from them:
The tightest integration ever between a digital mixer behemoth manufacturer like Yamaha and a very popular software company. They could have been the kings of...everything... 
With a perfect integration between software and a serious, not too expensive HW controller it would have been amazing....


So, it might be just a finance matter at play here, without an actual sinergy between the various components of the companies.


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## Technostica (Nov 1, 2021)

Fender had a record year in 2020 in terms of sales volumes. 
They do online guitar lessons I believe. 
Even guitar players like to use computers and record themselves. 
So there is the potential for synergy there. 
It could be good both for both companies! 
Sorry I don't have anything negative to say.


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## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

Maybe Fender will put a DAW into a car?
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/volkswagen-unveils-beetle-fender-edition-71501/?


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## Hendrixon (Nov 1, 2021)

TintoL said:


> I didn't know jackson was owned by fender. I guess they are keeping the fender brand untouched.


Jackson, Charvel, Gretsch, Bigsby, Tacoma, Ovation, Hamer...


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## easyrider (Nov 1, 2021)

I really hope S1 doesnt focus its developments on just guitarist….


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## Alchemedia (Nov 1, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I really hope S1 doesnt focus its developments on just guitarist….


As a guitarist I'm looking forward to a DAW with a whammy bar!


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## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

Speculation/comparison is entertaining but it all comes down to the deal that has already been agreed upon and signed by both sides. It could be horrible if the PreSonus owners want to retire and give up stuff/rights. OR, if they still have full hands-on with development, it could be great, all depends. When I worked for the original Kramer Guitars for years back in the 80s, we acquired Spector basses which were hand-built by Stuart Spector and his partner, nice fella whose name I forget. We all thought the Kramer marketing machine was going to destroy the manufacturing of those extremely nice basses. Turns out the Kramer CEO had us clear an entire section of the "new" factory at that time, and had Stuart bring in all of his lathes and machinery, the entire process, and NO changes were made. Stuart was simply building the instruments in NJ, not in NY now. If Fender is willing to do that and even add capital for more development resources, that would be nice. But I agree, whenever you hear _merger_, it's a veritable Twilight Zone that often doesn't work, but not saying never.


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## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> As a guitarist I'm looking forward to a DAW with a whammy bar!


ARRRRGGGHHHHH!!! I was working on a joke like that, and you beat me to it!


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## DaddyO (Nov 1, 2021)

Bought into Studio One this spring on a spectacular crossgrade sale that coincided with the release of their new auto-expression map capability with VSL. Also, I had great hope that the future looked bright for further development for orchestral work. Not so hopeful now.

I ended up sticking with Cubase with an eye of future Studio One features that would tip the scales. Not so sure now how much to expect adventurous new features.

We'll see how it goes, but today I suspect this news means I wasted my investment.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 1, 2021)

Yamaha's music division is pretty high tech, doing electronics and even their own semiconductors.
What FMIC is good at, sourcing wood?
At least they are better as a company then Gibson.

Honestly Gibson is the devil


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## dts_marin (Nov 1, 2021)

Let's hope the development budget won't get cut in half like Anakin


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## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> Jackson, Charvel, Gretsch, Bigsby, Tacoma, Ovation, Hamer...



I think Ovation has moved on:

https://int.gewamusic.com/brands


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## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> Yamaha's music division is pretty high tech, doing electronics and even their own semiconductors.
> What FMIC is good at, sourcing wood?
> At least they are better as a company then Gibson.
> 
> Honestly Gibson is the devil


If Leo was alive he'd be like "Pre-WHAT? Studio WHO?? Why is my Bassman tweed amp on a flat TV set, better yet HOW is my Bassman tweed on a flat TV set?? And why on earth is there a Gumbo recipe on the last page of this user manual??"


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## Technostica (Nov 1, 2021)

Fender like to reissue models from the 50s that have been artificially aged. 
So maybe we'll see Studio One 1.0 re-released as 16 bit only, without any of the bugs fixed to give it that vintage feel. 
Only available in a tweed flight case on floppy discs.


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## José Herring (Nov 1, 2021)

AudioLoco said:


> About the Steinberg Yamaha aquisition:
> Although they did not destroy the company, it's actually doing pretty, pretty well, they haven't added what was needed and expected from them:
> The tightest integration ever between a digital mixer behemoth manufacturer like Yamaha and a very popular software company. They could have been the kings of...everything...
> With a perfect integration between software and a serious, not too expensive HW controller it would have been amazing....
> ...


Yes, I was hoping to see them make strides in hardware as well. Integrating mixers, audio interfaces, with software ect.. They've done very little and what they have done isn't doing well. Really odd because they could have rocked it between Yamaha, Steinberg, Dorico and Neve collaborations we could have the best most comprehensive music systems ever, but instead they've kept all the products kind of separate.


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## Alchemedia (Nov 1, 2021)

Fender has already released a teaser for the new Studio One 6.0 Strat Edition.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

I'm not gonna lie - that's scary.

Before that S1 looked like the most promising DAW. Don't know about that anymore.
I wish they've made some better statement. Because you can get literally nothing from what they have said so far. Just "We are happy to announce bluh bluh bluh, we hope blah blah, and we believe blah blah".

On the bright side S1 dev team was a separated entity from the very beginning. And they were doing very well so far. So, if things go down with Fender, ig they always can stand on their own.


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## José Herring (Nov 1, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> On the bright side S1 dev team was a separated entity from the beru beginning. And they were doing very well so far. So, if things go down with Fender, ig they always can stand on their own.


Problem is that then Fender owns the code and if they decided to strike out on their own they'll have a hard time keeping the same product. 

But the bright side is that they use to work for Steinberg and they left and started their own thing so they know how to strike out on their own and start from scratch. Perhaps if they did that they could make it even better. 

but I hear you. I've been slowly learning Studio One because I really like it. No learning curve really because it was close to Cubase. Even most of the shortcuts are the same key commands. But, now I'm a little worried that Studio One will be put on the dust bin of history with the likes of Studio Vision, Sonar and Whatever happened to Cakewalk.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Problem is that then Fender owns the code and if they decided to strike out on their own they'll have a hard time keeping the same product.
> 
> But the bright side is that they use to work for Steinberg and they left and started their own thing so they know how to strike out on their own and start from scratch. Perhaps if they did that they could make it even better.
> 
> but I hear you. I've been slowly learning Studio One because I really like it. No learning curve really because it was close to Cubase. Even most of the shortcuts are the same key commands. But, now I'm a little worried that Studio One will be put on the dust bin of history with the likes of Studio Vision, Sonar and Whatever happened to Cakewalk.


I think they shoud release a statement related to S1 in particular. S1 became too big of a software to be sidelined in this whole story. 
What all users supposed to feel, think and do now?

We had future, perspective, hopes, faith, TEMPLATES(!!!). And now what🥲


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## easyrider (Nov 1, 2021)

Loads of branded Fender crap all over S1…..🤢


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## gyprock (Nov 1, 2021)

RSK said:


> I hope not. Presonus make some excellent interfaces, and there are a lot of poor, misguided souls who use Studio One.


Original Fender guitars will now use Studio One to record themselves. The Squire brand will need a baby brother DAW as well. Perhaps Fender should buy Cockos so that they can get their hands on Reaper.🤭


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## Architekton (Nov 1, 2021)

Oh no, I dont want to see S1 die, its great daw!


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

Guys, guys, there's gonna be the statement!


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## b_elliott (Nov 1, 2021)

gyprock said:


> Original Fender guitars will now use Studio One to record themselves. The Squire brand will need a baby brother DAW as well. Perhaps Fender should buy Cockos so that they can get their hands on Reaper.🤭


Would that not be a ReaFender. Lotta baggage on that. Jes' sayin'.

fwiw My $ is on NI-Izotope-Reaper Group = all bases covered. Hard to resist. Some miles to go....

EDIT: For some reason I missed the earlier postings. vi is rife with savvy people. Respect.


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## easyrider (Nov 1, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Guys, guys, there's gonna be the statement!


Post a link please


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Post a link please


It's under the first post in their Instagram account.


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## easyrider (Nov 1, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> It's under the first post in their Instagram account.


I’ll go to twitter as a last resort…. but avoid Instagram like the plague….


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## Hendrixon (Nov 1, 2021)

gyprock said:


> Perhaps Fender should buy Cockos so that they can get their hands on Reaper.🤭


Hell no!
Thank god Justin didn't make Reaper to seek fortune, he did (and does) it for his own use.
He made enough money from Winamp


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 1, 2021)

S1 has been on such a positive, upward trajectory I can't help but only see this as a negative.

My bet is the first thing they announce is a price increase to sphere.


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## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

DaddyO said:


> ...We'll see how it goes, but today I suspect this news means I wasted my investment.


Your full post made me realize that the key player is always the one with the vision... if it's the main PreSonus human, things may stay mostly the same. If Fender sticks a human body or team in that position, they either will take it to new heights or have zero clue and blow it.

Personally I'd like to see the person now in charge say "Let's peruse VI-C and find the ones who have written the best reviews and suggestions and even complaints on Studio One, and let's get them contracted in and do weekly Zoom calls to talk about the 5 year plan". First, that would show a clue. I know, that won't happen. You can bet that Marketing right now is brainstorming on how to integrate it into their product line and NO DOUBT a 12/31 deadline by the VP, not realizing that us MIDI musicians are a fussy sort who embrace change as much as a tax audit while having a root canal. If Steinberg changes the Cubase _icon_, we freak. The worst horror story: If Fender ever eventually decides to change the name... then we know the party's over. "Announcing Fender Studiocaster v12.001". Ugh.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

I disliked capitalism before, now I hate it. 😔


----------



## jon wayne (Nov 1, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> I disliked capitalism before, now I hate it. 😔


Free DAWs for Everybody!!!!!!! (Not)


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

jon wayne said:


> Free DAWs for Everybody!!!!!!!


And stable development based on everybody's needs with no marketing and profiting tricks! 😎


----------



## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Problem is that then Fender owns the code ...


Bingo. That's a contract point I'd like to know and was probably the biggest discussion between lawyers. I highly doubt Fender would agree to a merge without code rights, and they have the money to pay for it because of all of the guitar sales in 2020, stores were cleaned out. Yeah, that's a HUGE one, you definitely get a gold quarter-note on your collar for mentioning that. 👍🏼


----------



## sinkd (Nov 1, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> I'm curious about the list of relevant examples you are thinking of in this context







__





GUITAR MAKER GIBSON BUYS MIDI MUSIC HOUSE OPCODE


Gibson Musical Instruments Inc, makers of the legendary Gibson Les Paul guitar, has acquired Opcode Systems Inc, the Palo Alto- based producer of MIDI




techmonitor.ai


----------



## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> I disliked capitalism before, now I hate it. 😔


Without it we wouldn't have 28 DAWs to choose from, you know that.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Without it we wouldn't have 28 DAWs to choose from, you know that.


No, I don't. And we probably wouldn't need 28 DAWs to choose from. You know that😉


----------



## jon wayne (Nov 1, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> No, I don't. And we probably wouldn't need 28 DAWs to choose from. You know that😉


I have seen products that are marked Slate, but not State.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 1, 2021)

Look they already brought in their corporate manufactured stooge to replace Gregor



im just kidding...i hope


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)

Sad


----------



## José Herring (Nov 1, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Bingo. That's a contract point I'd like to know and was probably the biggest discussion between lawyers. I highly doubt Fender would agree to a merge without code rights, and they have the money to pay for it because of all of the guitar sales in 2020, stores were cleaned out. Yeah, that's a HUGE one, you definitely get a gold quarter-note on your collar for mentioning that. 👍🏼


I wish I could take credit. I honestly lived through this in the 90's when Gibson bought Studio Vision. I had invested all my money back then in a Mac, Studio Vision, a Studio 3 serial port interface. Shit wasn't cheap back then either. All the money that I had working little gigs here and there while going to school only to see it all go up in smoke because Gibson bought Opcode along with all the code to the program then shelved it. 

But there is a bright silver lining. You can still download Studio Vision for free. Anybody got a Mac IICX I can borrow along with a serial port midi interface?


----------



## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

sinkd said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is would be a sample size of 1 guitar company royally screwing up an acquisition of similar nature. 

I’m not able to deduce from that single company example, that all guitar companies are bound to end up with similar failures.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

You know, reading all those stories about Gibson made me realize that magic does exist - how else can you explain that whatever they touch turns shit?


----------



## José Herring (Nov 1, 2021)

A lot of people think that free enterprise and capitalism are the same. Free enterprise leads to 28 DAWs to choose from. Capitalism leads to accountants making all the decisions based on numbers crunching, shareholder value and bottom line profits along with taking into account money borrowed and interest rates. It's a pure money, lending and interest game that has little do with the production of products and when people look only at the numbers, bad things happen. Like our little nitch composer products get tossed into the bin because they usually cost more to develop and maintain than the little $150 upgrade fees generate.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)

As long as Fender keep the Studio One Pro development team in Hamburg intact, happy, and moves development of Studio One forward at a good pace, I will be happy.

I'm sad this happened, but at the same time, I'm still cautiously optimistic of the future of S1Pro.


----------



## dcoscina (Nov 1, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Look they already brought in their corporate manufactured stooge to replace Gregor
> 
> 
> 
> im just kidding...i hope



I think Gregor still covers Studio One... he never covered hardware


----------



## dcoscina (Nov 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> As long as Fender keep the Studio One Pro development team in Hamburg intact, happy, and moves development of Studio One forward at a good pace, I will be happy.
> 
> I'm sad this happened, but at the same time, I'm still cautiously optimistic of the future of S1Pro.


Yes me too. I really don't want to move back to LPX or Cubase... I love the macros, the customization of presets and everything being so bloody easy! Great work flow .


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Yes me too. I really don't want to move back to LPX or Cubase... I love the macros, the customization of presets and everything being so bloody easy! Great work flow .


I don't see myself using any other DAW but S1Pro as well. Let's be optimistic. I'm sure Fender realizes that they have a Gem of a DAW with Studio One, it is not some side line product line they can ignore.

But shit happens, so I'm again very cautiously optimistic.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 1, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I think Gregor still covers Studio One... he never covered hardware


Poor Lee Boylan just trying to do his job and I come a long and shit on him


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)

Plus, on top of that ... I would hate to change my Forum Signature from Presonus Studio One Pro 5 to Fender Studio One Pro 5. But that might be something I will have to do.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> Just curious:
> 
> Who should decide what everybody needs?
> Who gets to decide where the boundaries are between making a legitimate livelihood vs. profiteering tricks?
> And who decides where the boundary is between information sharing and marketing?


That's very simple - use all the tools available to collect data from public demands. If they are not capable enough for this job - update it. But I can assure you - they're. 
The rest is explained with taking pfofit out of the equation. 

Not to mention that principals of building a dev team would change dramatically as well. Same goes to the very process of development, that can and prolly will include user base and their feedback all the way.


----------



## Technostica (Nov 1, 2021)

Gibson can't even make good guitars, so no wonder they can't make good use of an acquisition.
They had the cheek to make two ten grand Jimi Hendrix models, even though he was very much predominantly a Strat guy.
Bunch of wannabees.

(Runs for cover from the Les Paul underclass.)


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> Sounds like you should start a company based on those ideals and principles.


Sound like a common sense 😉


----------



## Trash Panda (Nov 1, 2021)

Technostica said:


> Gibson can't even make good guitars, so no wonder they can't make good use of an acquisition.
> They had the cheek to make two ten grand Jimi Hendrix models, even though he was very much predominantly a Strat guy.
> Bunch of wannabees.
> 
> (Runs for cover from the Les Paul underclass.)


Epiphone Les Pauls for life!


----------



## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Epiphone Les Pauls for life!


I’m just not a Les Paul type of player, and haven’t had the stomach to buy from the Gibson empire for a long time, but I’ve long found Epiphone guitars quite a bit more interesting than Gibsons.

p.s. glad to already have my dream Mesa Boogie, purchased many years ago - otherwise I would now be seriously conflicted after that particular acquisition.


----------



## Hendrixon (Nov 1, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> I disliked capitalism before, now I hate it. 😔


Sure sure, compared to the plethora of DAWs coming from China Russia and North Korea...


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> Sure sure, compared to the plethora of DAWs coming from China Russia and North Korea...


Yeah, because North Korea is a socialist coutry. 🤡


----------



## Trash Panda (Nov 1, 2021)

Y’all know there is a political forum, right?


----------



## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

One never knows how these things evolve. 

The software part of Presonus might even be sold off one day, if Fender really only wanted the Presonus hardware parts.

Studio One users may be able to take some hope from some history?

Many years ago (2003) Steinberg was acquired by Pinnacle, and I started to contemplate jumping ship from Cubase. But about a year later (2004), Yamaha acquired Steinberg from Pinnacle and the rough patch gave way to a generally much better product evolution.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

I think we should wait for their statement regarding Studio one that they're about to release. It should(hopefully) give us the idea what comes next. 

But I think the real test is the next couple of updates(5.5, 5.6, and maybe even 6).


----------



## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Y’all know there is a political forum, right?


you’re right - I shouldn't have responded to those posts - and accordingly have just deleted my replies


----------



## Tim_Wells (Nov 1, 2021)

Gabriel S. said:


> Why so many negative views about this?


Because it's the internet.


----------



## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> No, I don't. And we probably wouldn't need 28 DAWs to choose from. You know that😉


Agreed. That could make us go bonkers.


----------



## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Y’all know there is a political forum, right?


Sure do, you're in one.

  

Sorry... couldn't resist.

Hey, how about that new version of Reaper, is that a Jim Dandy or what??

(Ed. Note: I have no idea if there's actually a new version of Reaper. I've never even _seen _Reaper.)


----------



## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> *I think we should wait for their statement regarding Studio one *that they're about to release. It should(hopefully) give us the idea what comes next.


Yep. You're right!


----------



## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I wish I could take credit. I honestly lived through this in the 90's when Gibson bought Studio Vision. I had invested all my money back then in a Mac, Studio Vision, a Studio 3 serial port interface. Shit wasn't cheap back then either. All the money that I had working little gigs here and there while going to school only to see it all go up in smoke because Gibson bought Opcode along with all the code to the program then shelved it.
> 
> But there is a bright silver lining. You can still download Studio Vision for free. Anybody got a Mac IICX I can borrow along with a serial port midi interface?


I have a Mac SE/30 with an ADP MIDI interface and MasterTracks Pro on it, only wrote one song in 1993 with a Proteus MPS+. Then I went AWOL until 2016, lol. Still have the Mac, literally have to slap it after powering on to get the hard drive to spin up. I could gut it and put my goldfish in there I suppose.


----------



## TintoL (Nov 1, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> Jackson, Charvel, Gretsch, Bigsby, Tacoma, Ovation, Hamer...


Holy crap, every minor brand.... thanks for sharing


----------



## kitekrazy (Nov 1, 2021)

Technostica said:


> Gibson can't even make good guitars, so no wonder they can't make good use of an acquisition.
> They had the cheek to make two ten grand Jimi Hendrix models, even though he was very much predominantly a Strat guy.
> Bunch of wannabees.
> 
> (Runs for cover from the Les Paul underclass.)


There was a joke on the Gibson forums at one time that Fender bought them and replaced the Gibson logo with Squier


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 1, 2021)

kitekrazy said:


> There was a joke on the Gibson forums at one time that Fender bought them and replaced the Gibson logo with Squier


Studio One Artist ---> Squier One


----------



## labornvain (Nov 1, 2021)

I just found this little press release blurb. It provides slightly more information. Specifically about Studio One.









Fender acquires Presonus: What does the future hold for musicians?


Fender's new acquisition is a bold and exciting move, but what could it mean for PreSonus as a brand and the rest of the industry as a whole.




www.gearnews.com





"Fender acquires Presonus in a game-changing power play, the question is why?
Although PreSonus has always been a producer of consistent quality hardware, it’s their software development division that has created more waves than many in the industry since the introduction of Studio One in late 2009. This is a massive expansion for Fender, as the Studio One user base is a dynamic and steadily growing community this provides the perfect platform for the development of new virtual instruments and audio processing tools as well as hardware peripherals. Fender’s extensive history provides all the market data necessary to turn this merger with PreSonus into a launching pad for exciting new developments in the future.

Were it not for the overwhelming success of the Studio One DAW software system, it seems unlikely that an acquisition of this nature would have taken place. The move is certainly an exciting prospect for Studio One users, as there will be interesting developments on the horizon, but this could also be the first of many acquisitions for Fender, as they continue to diversify into the world of music production software and DSP solutions. Nevertheless, it is an interesting shift in the market, and we’ll keep an eye on the Fender newsroom feed in the next few months."


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

labornvain said:


> I just found this little press release blurb. It provides slightly more information. Specifically about Studio One.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, this is interesting. I didn't know Fender was after "DSP solutions" before, not that deep at least. 

Reading between the lines we probably can make a conclusion that it was the S1's dev team who they wanted to get/partner with. It means, at the very least, that they are interested in these people, not the brand and userbase only. Which, hopefully, means they won't interfere in the development process and listen to the developers. 

It sounds much better than I thought after reading the news. 

Now it's really interesting what they gonna tell in that statement of theirs about Studio One.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

By the way, that part about Fender being "innovative" is funny.
It seems all what Fender can do these days is to paint. 👨‍🎨🎨


----------



## andyhy (Nov 1, 2021)

Hopefully it means good things for Studio One users. The ultimate parent company is the Japanese group Servco Pacific who apart from Fender have business interests in the automotive sector like Harley-Davidson.


----------



## Rmgatl (Nov 1, 2021)

tcollins said:


> Is this like Gibson buying Opcode and Baldwin?


Yes probably or maybe and btw I’m cursed Was an early Vision user (1990ish) and my first grand was a Baldwin I got in 1983, which became a PSO I can’t reasonably get rebuilt after Gibson did their magic on the Baldwin brand.

So after being covered up running my own tech company, I finally retired (after we were acquired) and have time for DAW stuff and picked S1. I’ll tell everyone where I end up so you’ll know what daw to avoid.

I assume all the usual stuff is in the press releases. I read studies - average time for principles/key employees post acquisition is 3-4 years. Parent company imposing a different culture, acquired company employees passed over for key jobs etc. Software different from hardware.

I stayed 4 years post acquisition but mostly played golf the last two years waiting for package. But you never know, if top engineers stay around, it might take quite a while to fall apart. All we need are decent updates. And all cynicism aside, roughly 20% or so of acquisitions are really successful, so we’ll see.


----------



## odod (Nov 1, 2021)

Presonus Strato One -- and later .. JagLab (free version)


----------



## Tronam (Nov 1, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Your full post made me realize that the key player is always the one with the vision... if it's the main PreSonus human, things may stay mostly the same. If Fender sticks a human body or team in that position, they either will take it to new heights or have zero clue and blow it.


The founder/CEO of Emagic, Gerhard Lengeling, is still at Apple 20 years after being acquired and continues to drive the Logic team. The same is true for Ben Gillett of CamelAudio. Not all acquisitions are just IP harvesting. Some just want to hire smart people and give them the resources to keep making cool stuff.


----------



## Rmgatl (Nov 1, 2021)

“we believe in infusing our investments with Servco’s core strengths, building on a foundation of strong company culture and values.”








Servco Pacific Capital - Servco


Servco's investment division offers a highly differentiated option to growing businesses who are seeking capital partners within the Pacific.




www.servco.com





Based on the absence of synergy with other operating units, you’d have to assume the PE financial ownership model: leveraged buyout, focus on ebitda, spiff it up, flip in 7-8 years. I wonder who they think might buy the Fender/Presonus combo. Hard to believe they expect an ipo (see below).

My quick read of Fender ownership: PE buyout by Weston Presidio, a couple of abandoned IPO attempts, then Servco bought out Weston and brought in TPG (another PE), then they bought out TPG.

The story behind Presonus going to servco is probably interesting, maybe I’ll hear something.

Oh well, have other DAWs on my machines and switching isn’t that bad.


----------



## PaulieDC (Nov 1, 2021)

Tronam said:


> The founder/CEO of Emagic, Gerhard Lengeling, is still at Apple 20 years after being acquired and continues to drive the Logic team. The same is true for Ben Gillett of CamelAudio. Not all acquisitions are just IP harvesting. Some just want to hire smart people and give them the resources to keep making cool stuff.


I hope that's the case... this all feels weird because PreSonus is like these relatives we have down in Louisiana that you simply haven't met, there's always been a smaller familiar feel to the company. And now it's like your favorite store got torn down and "Walmart SuperCenter coming in Spring 2022" is posted on a huge sign. I want you to be right! 

I have to admit (good night this is so weird), the day I got Cubase Pro in 2019 and installed it, I actually felt sad like I was losing a friend by leaving Studio One. I mean, PreSonus hadn't fixed the issues where Notion wouldn;t run on an i9 and utilizing CPU cores was a joke (this was version 4) and there really wasn't that big of a community of S1 users on here... I'd mention it in a thread back in 2017 and heard crickets often. But it was my first DAW and I learned to mix on a DAW using S1 and I was so committed to using it, even though, in 2019, I had to switch. So now Fender comes along and the bubble has kind of burst and it just feels weird. I'm fully on Cubase now and pulling out to 30,000 feet, a software/hardware company merged with another, ho hum. But for personal reasons, I think we feel like our kid brother just got picked on and hauled off to boarding school.


----------



## chocobitz825 (Nov 1, 2021)

Meh. I’m all for it. Tired of everyone bringing theories of doom and gloom every time something changes. Eventually something like this was bound to happen. I’ve worked with fender before. Pretty good folks there. I’ll hope they keep presonus moving in a good direction, and if it does turn to shit, I’ll move on to another daw. Not the end of the world.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)

chocobitz825 said:


> Meh. I’m all for it. Tired of everyone bringing theories of doom and gloom every time something changes. Eventually something like this was bound to happen. I’ve worked with fender before. Pretty good folks there. I’ll hope they keep presonus moving in a good direction, and if it does turn to shit, I’ll move on to another daw. Not the end of the world.


This reminds me of Yamaha taking over Steinberg. Cubase is still alive, and well. 

So, It might be a positive thing for Studio One. Fender has the $$$ so that might be a good thing for Studio One. 

I'm usually an optimist, so I see the bright side of things more than the dark side.


----------



## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

andyhy said:


> The ultimate parent company is the Japanese group Servco Pacific who apart from Fender have business interests in the automotive sector like Harley-Davidson.


So Yamaha isn't the only Japanese conglomerate making musical instruments as well as motorcycles.

EDIT: Correction: They are from Hawaii


----------



## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

Rmgatl said:


> Based on the absence of synergy with other operating units, you’d have to assume the PE financial ownership model: leveraged buyout, focus on ebitda, spiff it up, flip in 7-8 years. I wonder who they think might buy the Fender/Presonus combo. Hard to believe they expect an ipo (see below).


I'm not convinced that's a reasonable assumption after reading about their history:

https://www.servcocapital.com/our-legacy/
p.s. While their founder had emigrated from Japan, they are actually from Hawaii.


----------



## Fizzlewig (Nov 1, 2021)

I think Notion will be scrapped. To begin with. That’s my gut feeling.


----------



## chocobitz825 (Nov 1, 2021)

Fizzlewig said:


> I think Notion will be scrapped. To begin with. That’s my gut feeling.


Scrapped? Seems more logical to consolidate it with any relevant fender alternatives and improve its ability for guitar tabs.


----------



## Alchemedia (Nov 1, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Look they already brought in their corporate manufactured stooge to replace Gregor
> 
> 
> 
> im just kidding...i hope



Lee Boylan with PreSonus since 2014.




__





Lee Boylan Joins the PreSonus Europe Team | Press Releases | PreSonus







www.presonus.com


----------



## Alchemedia (Nov 1, 2021)

Fizzlewig said:


> I think Notion will be scrapped. To begin with. That’s my gut feeling.


I hope not!


----------



## Fizzlewig (Nov 1, 2021)

chocobitz825 said:


> Scrapped? Seems more logical to consolidate it with any relevant fender alternatives and improve its ability for guitar tabs.


Yes, that would make a lot of sense, but my feeling is Notion will be implemented more so into Studio One.


----------



## lucor (Nov 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> This reminds me of Yamaha taking over Steinberg. Cubase is still alive, and well.


Is it though? Painfully slow development, an obscene amount of bugs that never get fixed, only one measly content update per year which you also have to pay for everytime (while other DAWs get several per year, most often being free) ....
Of course one can only speculate how much of that is due to Yamaha's influence, but definitely feels like it's mainly their doing.

Still, I also try to stay optimistic about this whole thing. Maybe this will open up funds to hire some new people for the supposedly quite small S1 dev team? 
Then again, I also wouldn't be suprised if S1 updates will become less frequent and won't be free that often anymore...


----------



## Alchemedia (Nov 1, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Studio One Artist ---> Squier One


"You know their business, you think it's a bore
They make you restless, it's nothin' you ain't seen before."


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

Fizzlewig said:


> I think Notion will be scrapped. To begin with. That’s my gut feeling.


More likely it's the opposite. They are into tutorials and stuff like that. They can use some integrated solution for tabs, drums and so on. Also, don't forget endless possibilities of S1's midi editor, which could be utilized for educational purposes as well(like composing tutorials and so on). 

Theoretically there's a huge potential, but Gibson's example puts a shadow on such endeavors. 
On the other hand I can't belive that the devs are braindead and haven't made their research on the subject. They're probably more than enough aware of Gibson case. 
This is why we are waiting for clarification from S1 dev team. They promised to release it "very soon".


----------



## Fizzlewig (Nov 1, 2021)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> More likely it's the opposite. They are into tutorials and stuff like that. They can use some integrated solution for tabs, drums and so on. Also, don't forget endless possibilities of S1's midi editor, which could be utilized for educational purposes as well(like composing tutorials and so on).
> 
> Theoretically there's a huge potential, but Gibson's example puts a shadow on such endeavors.
> On the other hand I can't belive that the devs are braindead and haven't made their research on the subject. They're probably more than enough aware of Gibson case.
> This is why we are waiting for clarification from S1 dev team. They promised to release it "very soon".


I really hope that Notion and Studio One remains intact and ongoing development moves forward. I have to have more faith, that this will be a good outcome for all concerned.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)

https://rekkerd.org/fender-musical-instruments-corporation-to-acquire-presonus/


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 1, 2021)

Fizzlewig said:


> I really hope that Notion and Studio One remains intact and ongoing development moves forward. I have to have more faith, that this will be a good outcome for all concerned.


I'm not a prophet, but AFAIK lots if unis and colleges around the world use Notion as their go-to. Ig we can allow ourselves a thought that they are not gonna abandon them(right?).


----------



## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

lucor said:


> Is it though? Painfully slow development, an obscene amount of bugs that never get fixed, only one measly content update per year which you also have to pay for everytime (while other DAWs get several per year, most often being free) ....
> Of course one can only speculate how much of that is due to Yamaha's influence, but definitely feels like it's mainly their doing.
> 
> Still, I also try to stay optimistic about this whole thing. Maybe this will open up funds to hire some new people for the supposedly quite small S1 dev team?
> Then again, I also wouldn't be suprised if S1 updates will become less frequent and won't be free that often anymore...


Your criticisms of Steinberg are partially valid.

But in my (obviously subjective) opinion, Cubase continues to be the overall most functionally rich DAW in the market, while some other DAWs have specific strengths that make them more desirable for particular use cases.

And agreed, Cubase is also not the least expensive in the long haul. But I've always found the upgrades worthwhile to pay for and have done so each time since my first purchase of the VST 5 version about a couple of decades ago (except for Cubase SX2, which was - not co-incidentally I think - the year Steinberg was owned by Pinnacle).

Cubase is just a functionally rich beast for better and worse with a high quality audio engine. And it allows me to hop between MacOS and Windows. I appreciate it for those things.

But I'm also not evangelizing it, since it won't fit everyone. -- I'm probably a good customer, but not a good fanboy 🤷


p.s. For a least cost music making environment, I might start with the Tracktion DAW free version and add a whole bunch of the numerous free FX and instrument plugins available. And then buy string libraries on sale


----------



## cedricm (Nov 1, 2021)

chocobitz825 said:


> Meh. I’m all for it. Tired of everyone bringing theories of doom and gloom every time something changes. Eventually something like this was bound to happen. I’ve worked with fender before. Pretty good folks there. I’ll hope they keep presonus moving in a good direction, and if it does turn to shit, I’ll move on to another daw. Not the end of the world.


It's not doom and gloom. It's based on the fact that many M&A don't go well, except for the managers getting big bonuses at the time of the deal, and huge fees to lawyers and advisory banks.
And that I've rarely read a press release so vague in that circumstance.
Again, I'm rooting for the success of the acquisition to work for the entity previously known as Presonus.

Changing DAW isn't a matter of life and death, but it's at a minimum a waste of hundreds of hours of training, finding techniques and workarounds against bugs and limitations, plus troubles with the conversion of all existing projects.

Maybe Covid-19 hit harded than I thought, accelerating the music's industry consolidation, from Sweetwater to Adam Audio to Presonus, Woodbrass almost going down, and so forth.


----------



## chocobitz825 (Nov 1, 2021)

cedricm said:


> It's not doom and gloom. It's based on the fact that many M&A don't go well, except for the managers getting big bonuses at the time of the deal, and huge fees to lawyers and advisory banks.
> And that I've rarely read a press release so vague in that circumstance.
> Again, I'm rooting for the success of the acquisition to work for the entity previously known as Presonus.
> 
> ...


I feel like with the speed of tech change is inevitable. Whether it be the gradual change to your usual daws with new and retired features, or just the inevitable risk that your favorite tools might one day be discontinued.

Behringer just bought up my favorite mic maker…fender bought up presonus….optimistically this extends their options and leads to better products. If not, I’ll at some point lose a month or two to learning a new daw someday. Think I’d consider jumping on the reason subscription or maybe try bitwig. Silver linings right?


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## SteveC (Nov 2, 2021)

Finally it will be easier to use keyswitches while playing guitar.


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## TonalDynamics (Nov 2, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> Fender doesn’t care about studio one. They wanted all the mixers and pa stuff. We shall see what they do with the software, it will depend entirely on whether presonus continues to function as an independent entity from fender and how much fender will continue funding indirect support and dev of software products will be left to be seen.
> 
> Every buyout like this is totally different we cannot say it will go the same way as Gibson nor yamaha. Wait and see. Odds are good in my opinion that fender focus will be hardware which does not bode well for studio one and notion, but we shall see


Well Notion is already dog-tier software IMO, but if they muck up my beautiful S1, let's just say I'll be a sad panda.


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## Nando Florestan (Nov 2, 2021)

Most people think Studio One is the best Presonus product, but the real star is Notion. I use Notion for all my music. (And I host all VIs in Reaper. But all MIDI is sent from Notion to Reaper.) Studio One can be replaced with any sequencer, but Notion has unique features nobody else has.

Notion is not a feature-rich notation editor -- if compared to Dorico, Sibelius or Finale. But it has 2 things:

1. *The best workflow for composition in a score editor.* For instance, removing notes from bar 2 does not result in any changes to measure 3. You can have a measure with more tempi than the time signature allows, and all that happens is, the extra tempi are marked red. The tool isn't over-correcting you and allows you to have temporary stages of music development.

2. *The best MIDI generation in a score editor.* I use it to create mockups such as this and I feel it is missing only a few key features that sequencers have. The MIDI rule file format is particularly powerful, although this is certainly misunderstood by users who are familiar only with expression maps. They don't grok that Notion rules allow me to say "if the score has a tremolo sul ponticello and the dynamic is above forte, then play it with this specific patch; and if the note velocity is above 64, then add this CC message". I write such a rule once and then I can use it in many scores and it cuts down on the MIDI editing I need to do.

Unfortunately it has one more thing:

3. *The worst features for editing MIDI messages in a score editor.* Notion currently has the ability to record MIDI CC messages from the user's performance, but lacks any serious ability to adjust those CC messages or even copy and paste them correctly.

To me, these are the things that should change in this ecosystem:

1. All notation editors should learn from the above features and implement them to liberate composers from the need to use sequencers.
2. Companies must abandon the mistaken idea that it is a good workflow for a composer to be switching between a notation editor and a sequencer. In reality that is a horrible way to work.
3. Composers should realize that the piano roll is an illiterate representation of music, much worse, much less abstract, much less expressive, than traditional music notation. Composers should refrain from getting used to understanding music represented as a piano roll. One of the problems with the piano roll is that time is always represented proportionally; notation has the ability to compress the representation of time. In notation, the compositional information is intact; a piano roll can only represent a performance of that compositional information, and this happens because MIDI is all about performance, not about composition.
4. The name of the thing was always "sequencer". "DAW" is just marketing babble, it caught on because musicians are gullible, but it sounds bad, can be confused with the first of the seven notes, and is just in bad taste.

Notion is currently developed at a very slow pace, which is a pity. I assume the acquisition by Fender will make matters worse, that's what usually happens.


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## TonalDynamics (Nov 2, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> 3. Composers should realize that the piano roll is an illiterate representation of music, much worse, much less abstract, much less expressive, than traditional music notation. Composers should refrain from getting used to understanding music represented as a piano roll. One of the problems with the piano roll is that time is always represented proportionally; notation has the ability to compress the representation of time. In notation, the compositional information is intact; a piano roll can only represent a performance of that compositional information, and this happens because MIDI is all about performance, not about composition.


I agree about the certain advantages music notation has, but a lot of those drawbacks you listed which are worse for composers are actually favorable features for producers, such as having a linear/absolute measure of time.

Writing music? Use notation. Editing music? MIDI becomes a *vastly *superior tool very quickly.

Mixing/producing/recording music is _very_ different from composing music, which is what DAWs are primarily for. I'm afraid us folks are too niche of a market for most of them to cater to, apart from Studio One (which I desperately hope continues after this buyout)


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## Nico5 (Nov 2, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> The name of the thing was always "sequencer". "DAW" is just marketing babble, it caught on because musicians are gullible, but it sounds bad, can be confused with the first of the seven notes, and is just in bad taste.


A digital audio workstation (DAW) is an electronic device or application software used for recording, editing and producing *audio *files.

A *music sequencer* (or *audio sequencer* or simply *sequencer*) is a device or application software that can record, edit, or play back music, by handling note and performance information in several forms, typically CV/Gate, MIDI, or Open Sound Control (OSC)


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## Nando Florestan (Nov 2, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> A digital audio workstation (DAW) (...) *audio *files.


You are correct and at the same time you made me remember my original reasoning, which is this:

Cakewalk was, once upon a time, just a sequencer. Suddenly it gained a few of the features of Sound Forge, which was unavoidable by the way. But on that day the marketing team rose and yelled, "this is a different product! It is not a sequencer anymore, it is something else, something that will blow your mind, something that does everything -- a complete DIGITAL AUDIO WORKSTATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and by the way its name is now Sonar"

Nah, a sequencer with audio features can still be called a sequencer, that's what it is. People don't even know how to pronounce the other name.


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## sinkd (Nov 2, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> That is would be a sample size of 1 guitar company royally screwing up an acquisition of similar nature.
> 
> I’m not able to deduce from that single company example, that all guitar companies are bound to end up with similar failures.


I was not asserting that--you just asked for an example, because I guess you couldn't think of one. It might also go the way of AVID acquiring Sibelius. Maybe there will be a rogue team of S1 devs who wait out their non competes and start a new project with another company, as the Sibelius team did with Dorico and Steinberg. Who knows?


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## Soundbed (Nov 2, 2021)

I am also having PTSD-like flashbacks to Cakewalk and Studio Vision Pro going the way of the Dodo bird after Gibson acquired both of them. 

I hope the software development within Presonus continues to evolve. Even their Revelator is an interesting product, coming with a software mixer for podcasts and Zoom calls with multiple audio sources and a USB mic with a Fat Channel. 




labornvain said:


> I just found this little press release blurb. It provides slightly more information. Specifically about Studio One.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That doesn’t look like a press release blurb … it looks like some opinions by a writer speculating, like much of this thread.


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## Wedge (Nov 2, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> You are correct and at the same time you made me remember my original reasoning, which is this:
> 
> Cakewalk was, once upon a time, just a sequencer. Suddenly it gained a few of the features of Sound Forge, which was unavoidable by the way. But on that day the marketing team rose and yelled, "this is a different product! It is not a sequencer anymore, it is something else, something that will blow your mind, something that does everything -- a complete DIGITAL AUDIO WORKSTATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and by the way its name is now Sonar"
> 
> Nah, a sequencer with audio features can still be called a sequencer, that's what it is. People don't even know how to pronounce the other name.


They added features with Sonar, but Cakewalk Pro Audio did audio (Pro Audio started at v. 6.0 in I think 1997), I used an eq, compressor, flanger, phaser, and a limiter back then with it. The same year, 1997, Roland put out the VS-840 which was an 8-track that that recorded to Zip Disks and they called it a Digital Audio Workstation https://www.roland.com/us/products/vs-840/support/, I'm pretty sure they weren't the first either. I owned both, I'm old. So I'm going to say, Cakewalk did not coin the term with Sonar.


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## Rossy (Nov 2, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> S1 has been on such a positive, upward trajectory I can't help but only see this as a negative.
> 
> My bet is the first thing they announce is a price increase to sphere.


I hope not because I'm ditching it if they do.


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## GtrString (Nov 2, 2021)

Hmm, I love Fender guitars, and I love Studio One (and own a Quantum 2626 interface), but I can't see the synergy here? Will Studio One get more TWANG? Hoping for the best (while secretly learning another daw)..


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## Nico5 (Nov 2, 2021)

sinkd said:


> I was not asserting that--you just asked for an example, because I guess you couldn't think of one. It might also go the way of AVID acquiring Sibelius. Maybe there will be a rogue team of S1 devs who wait out their non competes and start a new project with another company, as the Sibelius team did with Dorico and Steinberg. Who knows?


If you care to re-read my question, I had asked for "the list of relevant examples"

i.e. a plural and a list - not just the single instance that is very well known.


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## Nico5 (Nov 2, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> You are correct and at the same time you made me remember my original reasoning, which is this:
> 
> Cakewalk was, once upon a time, just a sequencer. Suddenly it gained a few of the features of Sound Forge, which was unavoidable by the way. But on that day the marketing team rose and yelled, "this is a different product! It is not a sequencer anymore, it is something else, something that will blow your mind, something that does everything -- a complete DIGITAL AUDIO WORKSTATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and by the way its name is now Sonar"
> 
> Nah, a sequencer with audio features can still be called a sequencer, that's what it is. People don't even know how to pronounce the other name.


You seem to be intent on creating a nefarious narrative for the evolution of technology and associated terminology. So I won't argue ...


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## Nando Florestan (Nov 2, 2021)

Although I misremembered some of the details, I am not "creating" the nefarious narrative. Ask yourself, who talks like this? "Digital Audio Workstation". Who says that??? A real person would say either sequencer or audio editor etc. The expression is infused with marketing and maybe I am alone, but I never swallowed that.


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## ennbr (Nov 2, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Cakewalk was, once upon a time, just a sequencer. Suddenly it gained a few of the features of Sound Forge, which was unavoidable by the way. But on that day the marketing team rose and yelled, "this is a different product! It is not a sequencer anymore, it is something else, something that will blow your mind, something that does everything -- a complete DIGITAL AUDIO WORKSTATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and by the way its name is now Sonar"


History lesson the first product that Cakewalk released with Audio was Pro Audio they followed up with Sonar that was a complete rewrite of the audio engine. I was a beta tester from v1 - v6 and know the product well.


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## Al Maurice (Nov 2, 2021)

Many of composers favourite tools started their life as sequencers, at some point the gained audio when the developers came to the realisation, users wanted to combine both or saw that as an excellent opportunity to expand their horizons.

Actual DAWs came from the other way. Hence why I prefer to use tools that work best for the original intention of the underlying design.

Studio One gained midi later, which explains why it still for me is not the best fit for midi composition.

And I agree composing with notation in many cases is preferable, especially when you want your parts eventually recorded by musicians. But equally the piano roll is quite effective, considering enharmonically two notes chromatically speaking can be the same: Beethoven often played on this effect.


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## sinkd (Nov 2, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> If you care to re-read my question, I had asked for "the list of relevant examples"
> 
> i.e. a plural and a list - not just the single instance that is very well known.


Sorry that I couldn't be of more help.


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## estevancarlos (Nov 2, 2021)

cedricm said:


> No.
> Gibson bougth Cakewalk and destroyed it in a few years.
> You have Sonar for free because a start-up, BandLab, bought Cakewalk, or what was left of it.


Cakewalk was struggling at the time. When in music school we studied on Cakewalk and even the professors acknowledged that it was some redheaded step child... with great features. This was the early 2000s. I started using Cakewalk in 1997.


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## SteveC (Nov 2, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Most people think Studio One is the best Presonus product, but the real star is Notion. I use Notion for all my music. (And I host all VIs in Reaper. But all MIDI is sent from Notion to Reaper.) Studio One can be replaced with any sequencer, but Notion has unique features nobody else has.
> 
> Notion is not a feature-rich notation editor -- if compared to Dorico, Sibelius or Finale. But it has 2 things:


I like Notion, but I chose Dorico. In conjunction with Noteperformer, this program has an incredible workflow. I think the things you like about Notion you can also find in Dorico. Or not? Studio One offers a few features that I haven't found anywhere else. Greetings


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## Phillip Dixon (Nov 2, 2021)

Are presonus going to make some sort of announcement or just leave it's user base hanging.. Bad show


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## Tim_Wells (Nov 2, 2021)

Tronam said:


> The founder/CEO of Emagic, Gerhard Lengeling, is still at Apple 20 years after being acquired and continues to drive the Logic team. The same is true for Ben Gillett of CamelAudio.


Was it their idea to tell PC users to go screw themselves?

Sorry... couldn't resist


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## dcoscina (Nov 2, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I don't see myself using any other DAW but S1Pro as well. Let's be optimistic. I'm sure Fender realizes that they have a Gem of a DAW with Studio One, it is not some side line product line they can ignore.
> 
> But shit happens, so I'm again very cautiously optimistic.


Gregor just posted a new video 22 hrs ago so I hope that they will leave the software side alone. If they want to screw with their hardware line, fine with me


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## muziksculp (Nov 2, 2021)

I'm hoping Presonus will post an official statement soon, to assure us that all will be going forward as usual with respect to Studio One Pro development, support, etc.


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## Nando Florestan (Nov 2, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I think the things you like about Notion you can also find in Dorico. Or not?


Dorico is much better for notation. But the playback rules feature of Notion can be found nowhere else. (Expression maps do not nearly have as much power.) Also, if I add let's say, a quarter note to bar 2, I believe in Dorico this affects all subsequent measures, with durations sliding from one bar to the next... maybe that's useful for someone somewhere, but not me when I am composing.

The workflow of composition is different from the workflow of engraving. Notion allows a measure to have fewer or more beats than the time signature states, which is something you can use temporarily while you compose, or even, leave it there forever.

As impressive as Noteperformer is, if I have invested so much money in the best virtual instruments available, I want to use them, and use them easily. This is why I use Notion + Reaper.

Finally, not a fan of Vienna keys, e-licenser etc. Anti-piracy software is extremely inconvenient and goes against a basic tenet that I have, that I must be the one in control of my computer. Not a fan of having to dial a number to beg someone to use something I paid for. Dorico uses anti-piracy software and is super difficult to install; Notion is fine.


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## CSwaf (Nov 2, 2021)

Fender and PreSonus are in a really different position to other acquisitions mentioned - both are in a good place, have great products and talented people. We are all pretty excited about the possibilities here in the software team. 

As for an official statement - the OP pasted it. There'll not be much more news until things are completed.

(btw - as some have posted above, we should remember acquisitions are not always bad news. PreSonus acquired what became Studio One, and Notion after all )


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## dcoscina (Nov 2, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Dorico is much better for notation. But the playback rules feature of Notion can be found nowhere else. (Expression maps do not nearly have as much power.) Also, if I add let's say, a quarter note to bar 2, I believe in Dorico this affects all subsequent measures, with durations sliding from one bar to the next... maybe that's useful for someone somewhere, but not me when I am composing.
> 
> The workflow of composition is different from the workflow of engraving. Notion allows a measure to have fewer or more beats than the time signature states, which is something you can use temporarily while you compose, or even, leave it there forever.
> 
> ...


I've been using Notion since its inception in 2005. It does have some great playback rulz. However, Dorico is fast becoming very capable at performance playback. I have no doubt it will eclipse its competition soon.


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## Tronam (Nov 2, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> Was it their idea to tell PC users to go screw themselves?
> 
> Sorry... couldn't resist


Some wounds will never heal, even after two decades of therapy and deep reflection.


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## Rmgatl (Nov 2, 2021)

Technostica said:


> Unless Fender also have a history of ruining companies that they acquire, I see no reason for a knee jerk reaction just because a different guitar company screwed up.
> Spock not impressed.


The owners are private equity investors, not strategic. They have some premise for getting a return on their investment looking out usually 7-8 years. Probably not an IPO unless they can quickly bundle up enough acquisitions to make another run at it before that window closes again.

Typical leverage (debt) on PE has been around 50%. Leverage means the company has to be managed tightly to maximize cash flow - so you might look for that behavioral change Presonus probably didn’t have nearly as much debt baked into it.









Debt Levels in Private Equity Investments Have Dropped Significantly - American Investment Council


Private equity uses significantly less leverage today than 15 years ago. Average loan-to-value on new private equity investments was 53 percent in 2020, down from 68 percent in 2005. This […]




www.investmentcouncil.org





In 2006, I got unsolicited PE offers at ebitda multiples far higher than historical norms, leverage on deals was at record highs. Sure enough, we were near the end of a financial cycle. Maybe it’s smart to take a PE exit now (feels like another end of cycle again to me) although strategic buyer valuations are always higher (maybe there were none). 

Mergers always have some projected accretive benefit - reduced personnel by merging redundant overhead operations between Fender and Presonus. Merge sales forces and support. Product development hopefully not touched. Creates a scramble for top jobs (only need one VP of whatever, one CFO etc).

Anyway sorry about long post - long way to say Apple buying you vs PE is apples and oranges.

It’ll be fine, we can switch daws if necessary. The Baldwin/Gibson thing actually hurt me the most. I put whatever money into my Steinway D and it makes sense. The 5’8” Baldwin is sitting there begging for a $15-20k rebuild, but piano won’t even be worth $20k when done. Should have bought a Mason, oh well.


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## stigc56 (Nov 2, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Dorico is much better for notation. But the playback rules feature of Notion can be found nowhere else. (Expression maps do not nearly have as much power.) Also, if I add let's say, a quarter note to bar 2, I believe in Dorico this affects all subsequent measures, with durations sliding from one bar to the next... maybe that's useful for someone somewhere, but not me when I am composing.
> 
> The workflow of composition is different from the workflow of engraving. Notion allows a measure to have fewer or more beats than the time signature states, which is something you can use temporarily while you compose, or even, leave it there forever.
> 
> ...


No Dorico lets you work in Insert mode - notes are moved according to your edits of the timing, and without insert, which does the opposite.


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## SteveC (Nov 2, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Dorico is much better for notation. But the playback rules feature of Notion can be found nowhere else. (Expression maps do not nearly have as much power.) Also, if I add let's say, a quarter note to bar 2, I believe in Dorico this affects all subsequent measures, with durations sliding from one bar to the next... maybe that's useful for someone somewhere, but not me when I am composing.
> 
> The workflow of composition is different from the workflow of engraving. Notion allows a measure to have fewer or more beats than the time signature states, which is something you can use temporarily while you compose, or even, leave it there forever.
> 
> ...


I like NotePerformer because of the quick and good results, but of course that depends on how you like to work! But Dorico also lets you work quite extensively with VSTs and expression maps. With Dorico you can choose quite a lot as far as the input method is concerned. But I am glad that there are supporters of Notion, I also really liked the program when I tried it out! What I miss most of all with Dorico is the direct export to Studio One.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 2, 2021)

CSwaf said:


> Fender and PreSonus are in a really different position to other acquisitions mentioned - both are in a good place, have great products and talented people. We are all pretty excited about the possibilities here in the software team.
> 
> As for an official statement - the OP pasted it. There'll not be much more news until things are completed.
> 
> (btw - as some have posted above, we should remember acquisitions are not always bad news. PreSonus acquired what became Studio One, and Notion after all )


I guess people wanna know what's gonna change. 

Will S1 keep the same direction of development or they'll be focused more on band music?
What will happen with feature requests section?
What about business model - PreSonus promised that they would never move into Avid Evil path with subscription model. Will it change?
Is sphere still a thing?
What are the plans of Fender and S1 teams for the next few years?
And so on. 

Lots of questions. That's why people are waiting for something more specific than that press release. 

I suppose PreSonus Fender is gonna release a video that addresses those questions after the deal is officially done, right?🌚


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 2, 2021)

Rossy said:


> I hope not because I'm ditching it if they do.


Well I've noticed paid ads for Sphere popping up everywhere since the announcement of the merger and Joe Gilder was pushing it at the start of his latest vid. 

Could be coincidence but, well, I've seen this song n dance before.


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## Fenicks (Nov 2, 2021)

I'm a bit beside myself with this news. Studio One is my first and only DAW and the thought of it going down the drain because of executive meddling by Fender is terribly sad.



CSwaf said:


> Fender and PreSonus are in a really different position to other acquisitions mentioned - both are in a good place, have great products and talented people. We are all pretty excited about the possibilities here in the software team.
> 
> As for an official statement - the OP pasted it. There'll not be much more news until things are completed.
> 
> (btw - as some have posted above, we should remember acquisitions are not always bad news. PreSonus acquired what became Studio One, and Notion after all )


The official statement isn't enough to reassure people. It's vague and provides no information about how Studio One will be managed going forward which is what people are invested in. All of the feedback on this merger in various forums that I've read is negative. People want assurance that the development team in Hamburg will be left alone and that the DAW isn't going to change to a subscription model. I'm already starting to consider what other DAWs I'll have to jump to if Fender starts screwing with Studio One's development which I presently have no assurance they won't do, especially since they don't seem to have much experience with this kind of software. Surely you can understand why a corporate merger like this makes users nervous absent of any further information.


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## Kevin Fortin (Nov 2, 2021)

Something to remember is that the acquisition still needs to be approved and even after that it might take months before anything really happens in any practical sense. 

But I am glad people are posting their thoughts about it here. Tea all around for the tiller-peeps.


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## IFM (Nov 2, 2021)

Kevin Fortin said:


> Something to remember is that the acquisition still needs to be approved and even after that it might take months before anything really happens in any practical sense.
> 
> But I am glad people are posting their thoughts about it here. Tea all around for the tiller-peeps.


It's already done. Those press releases come out after all the legal documentation is done and the deal signed. My peers have spoken with some inside people at Presonus and they give the usual response that they say it will be business as usual but as you know it's never that way. Fender is going to wreck them IMO and I hope I'm wrong.


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## dozicusmaximus (Nov 2, 2021)

Time to pick up a cheap license.


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## CSwaf (Nov 3, 2021)

IFM said:


> It's already done. Those press releases come out after all the legal documentation is done and the deal signed. My peers have spoken with some inside people at Presonus and they give the usual response that they say it will be business as usual but as you know it's never that way. Fender is going to wreck them IMO and I hope I'm wrong.


A definitive agreement has been signed but the acquisition won't be completed for a little while, as outlined in the official statement. In the meantime the companies continue as is. I can only speak for myself and my peers when I say we are pretty excited about the possibilities.


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## sinkd (Nov 3, 2021)

Nando Florestan said:


> Dorico is much better for notation. But the playback rules feature of Notion can be found nowhere else. (Expression maps do not nearly have as much power.) *Also, if I add let's say, a quarter note to bar 2, I believe in Dorico this affects all subsequent measures, with durations sliding from one bar to the next...* maybe that's useful for someone somewhere, but not me when I am composing.


This only happens if you invoke insert mode, it is not the default.


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## Trancer (Nov 3, 2021)

A very sad news which unfortunately most certainly announces the downfall of a really excellent daw.

This kind of merger never bodes well, or at least not for long.

Gibson example.

For Native-instruments to buy Presonus it would have been more logical and certainly more logical, a good mix of talent and in the same vein.

I wanted to upgrade to the pro version of Studio One and well I'll change my mind, too many uncertainties and the subscription system isn't for me.

That leaves a boulevard for Cubase all that. Besides, even if not really a fan of this daw (not evolving, many bugs which by dint of new updates add others, etc ...), it does not really enchant me but for a pc user, it remains the only option apparently.

We'll see the rest of it soon anyway


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## easyrider (Nov 3, 2021)

After sleeping on it…I think all this doom and gloom is an over reaction. Everyone knows that S1 is a brilliant DAW and loads of people I know are switching to it for a reason. It’s not in Fenders best interest to jeopardize that. Adding Fender Amps to Ampire would be fine with me.

Fender play service could be incorporated into Sphere etc…

S1 Artist being shipped free with New Fender guitars is no big deal. My only concern is the midi aspect. Presonus have made some cool Midi features over the past few updates, sound variations, auto population with VSL sample libraries etc…They were developing midi to compete with Cubase etc…and developing composer tools….If they change direction and make it geared towards live recording and put midi development on the back burner this would suck. I do both live recording and midi composition. Having a dedicated video track is long time overdue but will this be deemed valuable coding time to fender? I doubt it….at the end of the day we have choices…S1 will just continue to get better or we will just ditch it….let’s hope it the former and not the latter.


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## mixedmoods (Nov 3, 2021)

At first I was aswell very scared by this announcement – looking at it from a consumer perspective.
But on a second thought it might make more sense ...
Looking at how for example Universal Audio is expanding their business model by developing their own DAW and developing Guitar FX modules next to a new range of "vintage style" audio interfaces. Like this they're extending their product range and reach new audiences.
Presonus and Fender might just aim for a similar concept – and from this perspective the merger might be a better fit than we might think? Time will tell ...


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## LynxUK (Nov 3, 2021)

Could be much worse, and could have been Gibson making the acquisition. From my experience in the past, software acquisitions don't usually end well. Generally what happens the focus and direction changes, so the type of user it attracted are no longer attracted to it. Sales decrease and the software essentially dies.
I have no doubt Presonus know their core users very well. What they have done to this point with S1 has been well received, but if pressure from Fender moves them away from that core base in an effort to satisfy their own demands, then I think we can say good bye to S1.
It really all depends on how hands on Fender want to be, and only time will tell.


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 3, 2021)

Gibson killed Cakewalk (it came back). Mackie killed Tracktion (it came back). If Fender kills Studio One, hopefully it, too, will come back.

It can be hard for hardware companies (ha) to understand software. If they don't fully empower and trust the people in charge of the software, it'll be game over for the software. The opposite would also be true, with software companies acquiring hardware.

I'll be cautiously optimistic.


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## easyrider (Nov 3, 2021)

Presonus are not just software….they are hardware too.


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 3, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Presonus are not just software….they are hardware too.


Yep.


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## SteveC (Nov 4, 2021)

Are the heads behind S1 not in Hamburg? If that's the case then I don't have to worry. The people in northern Germany are pretty stubborn.


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## Technostica (Nov 4, 2021)

It’s all been a terrible misunderstanding, Fender just acquired a single Presonus audio interface to go with the new fangled computing device in accounts.
As you were.


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## easyrider (Nov 4, 2021)

New Presonus video coincidentally with Fender gear


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Nov 4, 2021)

easyrider said:


> New Presonus video coincidentally with Fender gear



I love people in the comments begging Fender to "not f*ck this up*.


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## Rmgatl (Nov 4, 2021)

Not the end of the world. Fender is hopefully running things day to day, but remember Servco owns all of it. Servco will control the BOD and will have a hand in any major strategic decisions. If something funny happens, attribution to Fender will be our first instinct but in some cases, Fender might be told what to do by Servco. 

Everybody is sold on synergies and benefits and usually in a pretty good mood at first. I can imagine various internal political scenarios, but will spare you that speculation. Plenty of reasons to love a software business - higher margins than hardware, no sourcing/supply chain issues. I guess the challenges include piracy, support costs, figuring out a recurring revenue model, niche business with lots of competitors. 

The only way this thing works out for all concerned is to grow the business. We'll hope for the best. 

Thanks for the positive comments on Notion - I have it, need to play with it more. I generally sketch onto manuscript (by hand), then at some point it's in my head and just start playing in parts. S1 has been fine with me - midi editing features perfectly adequate for my work flow. But maybe I should get into Notion.


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## Pier (Nov 8, 2021)

Trancer said:


> For Native-instruments to buy Presonus it would have been more logical and certainly more logical, a good mix of talent and in the same vein.


What would NI gain from acquiring Presonus?

NI has had a hardware division for almost 2 decades now. Software wise, they are perfectly capable of making their own DAW. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if NI was already working on a full featured DAW (they've had a Maschine mini DAW for years).

Fender is a super popular old school audio company that wants to get into the 21st century audio. Presonus is a relatively small company that will get a huge boost by operating under the Fender brand. The acquisition makes total sense.

I'm not a S1 user, but I feel the acquisition is going to be good for Presonus and S1.


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## José Herring (Nov 9, 2021)

easyrider said:


> New Presonus video coincidentally with Fender gear



I'm a very optimistic guy usually, but....there is no scenario where this bodes well for us.


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## gedlig (Nov 9, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I'm a very optimistic guy usually, but....there is no scenario where this bodes well for us.


A free Fender strat with a dark fretboard, stacked single coils, dark red finish and satin neck for owning S1 pro would be very good personally 😁


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## StillLife (Nov 9, 2021)

Trancer said:


> A very sad news which unfortunately most certainly announces the downfall of a really excellent daw.
> 
> This kind of merger never bodes well, or at least not for long.
> 
> ...


Don't know if you know, but Steinberg (Cubase) is owned by Yamaha, for years already. As long as each division within such a company keeps doing what it does best, I don't see a problem for us users.
As for Fender/Presonus. The latter are doing very well, not in the least due to S1, the daw of the future. I totally understand Fender. If I had had the money, I would have bought Presonus myself. Still, teacher's salary - made me come up short, just.


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## Tren (Nov 10, 2021)

Trancer said:


> A very sad news which unfortunately most certainly announces the downfall of a really excellent daw.
> 
> This kind of merger never bodes well, or at least not for long.
> 
> ...


It would have been illogical for NI to buy PreSonus, as they would put themselves in competition with the industry that they court. Hard to get competitors to get on board with NKS, etc. when you're basically selling a competing DAW. Competing companies naturally are averse to endorsing the standards of each other.

I'm not so sure it signals the downfall of anything. PreSonus has already been far more successful than Cakewalk at convincing the general public that Sphere is a "great deal." This is really what killed Cakewalk. They couldn't get people to buy into their Annual Upgrade Plan, and then they threw a Hail Mary for users by selling lifetime licenses which basically delivered the final blow to any hopes of a rebound.

PreSonus has better momentum going into this than Cakewalk, and a better reputation, as well. They're also better set up, technologically. Better support from third parties, they're on Windows and macOS, etc.

I really wonder what this bodes for the Notion product line, though, since Notion 7 was supposedly in development but no where near completion. I wonder if there will be some recalibration, there.


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## Trancer (Nov 12, 2021)

The future will tell...


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## nolotrippen (Nov 12, 2021)

cedricm said:


> Not a good news IMHO.
> Fender To Acquire PreSonus Electronics
> 
> *HOLLYWOOD, CALIF. (NOV. 1, 2021) - *Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC), the world’s leading musical instrument manufacturers, marketers and distributors, today announced it has signed a definitive agreement of merger with PreSonus Audio Electronics, Inc. The Baton Rouge, Louisiana based brand is the leading designer and manufacturer of recording and live-sound hardware and software solutions that solve real-world problems for working creatives.
> ...


Fender, like Gibson, is where small companies go to die.


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## Trancer (Nov 12, 2021)

Yes, but Yamaha do synths among other things, a kind of added value in a way having taken over Steinberg.

Yes for the competition, you have NI, but beyond that, a merger on an instrument point of view.
music and future products certainly more interesting than with a guitar company ....

Not a great interest to merge with a company which certainly makes musical instruments, but diametrically opposed.


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## StillLife (Nov 12, 2021)

Trancer said:


> Yes, but Yamaha do synths among other things, a kind of added value in a way having taken over Steinberg.
> 
> Yes for the competition, you have NI, but beyond that, a merger on an instrument point of view.
> music and future products certainly more interesting than with a guitar company ....
> ...


I think many guitarists would disagree about them being diametrically opposed . S1/Sphere is a great recording platform for guitarists/singer-songwriters. I eagerly await the Fender-pack for amp room.


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## nightjar (Nov 12, 2021)

StillLife said:


> I think many guitarists would disagree about them being diametrically opposed . S1/Sphere is a great recording platform for guitarists/singer-songwriters. I eagerly await the Fender-pack for amp room.


Not just guitarists... I think most anyone with a love of creating music would consider organic and virtual instruments to be complementary to each other rather than opposing.


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## gedlig (Nov 15, 2021)

Imagine thinking guitar is not modern

Edit: the post I was referencing was deleted 😅


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## musicmakerbird (Nov 15, 2021)

gedlig said:


> Imagine thinking guitar is not modern
> 
> Edit: the post I was referencing was deleted 😅


Of course. Let's see how the guitar focus approach (possibly) does against music production/podcasting right now, and how fender can balance various users bases that use Presonus products. Especially the Atom line, podcasters etc.


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## nightjar (Nov 15, 2021)

musicmakerbird said:


> Of course. Let's see how the guitar focus approach (possibly) does against music production/podcasting right now, and how fender can balance various users bases that use Presonus products. Especially the Atom line, podcasters etc.


Looking back in a few years, Podcasting will be just a tiny blip in overall product planning. It's not anything functionally unique from general purpose music/audio production devices. It's fundamentally a marketing term.


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## MarcusD (Nov 15, 2021)

Fellow forum user, let’s not jump to conclusions. I’m sure the good people at Presonus know what they’re doing. 

Unless they start posting social photos of super cars, wodds of cash and random flour spillages, we have nothing to worry about.


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## gedlig (Nov 15, 2021)

musicmakerbird said:


> Of course. Let's see how the guitar focus approach (possibly) does against music production/podcasting right now, and how fender can balance various users bases that use Presonus products. Especially the Atom line, podcasters etc.


 First, I think, you should rethink what you consider „music production“. It's not just edm/trap/rap or whatever currently popular genre that I hate with all my gut (I'm a 90s kid metal head, so I have my biases with this). Rock, metal, orchestral, folk, edm, rnb, all of those fall under music production.
Secondly, podcasting requires only the most basic daw functionality. No special midi functionality, MPE, glitch effects. There's a reason a lot of people do well with Audacity and Adobe Audition for podcasts.
If you want to talk only about the "dem sick beatz" portion of the user base, (I think) you can already do most an electronic music composer would realistically need in S1. Yeah, it's not as focused on that market as Fruity Loops (evil smile) or Ableton Live, but I don't see S1 losing functionality in favour of another type of composer. Plus the current metal and rock, and cinematic scoring scenes have a fair bit of synth and electronic beat usage, so those types of features are useful for everyone.

I think I had something else to write, but my attention wandered off and forgot, so whatever

Edit: also there's a lot of metal, rock, country, whatever bands currently, so the possible guitar focus wouldn't go against „music production right now“.


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## musicmakerbird (Nov 15, 2021)

nightjar said:


> Looking back in a few years, Podcasting will be just a tiny blip in overall product planning. It's not anything functionally unique from general purpose music/audio production devices. It's fundamentally a marketing term.


I'm talking in general with what's popular in the market now.


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## musicmakerbird (Nov 15, 2021)

gedlig said:


> First, I think, you should rethink what you consider „music production“. It's not just edm/trap/rap or whatever currently popular genre that I hate with all my gut (I'm a 90s kid metal head, so I have my biases with this). Rock, metal, orchestral, folk, edm, rnb, all of those fall under music production.
> Secondly, podcasting requires only the most basic daw functionality. No special midi functionality, MPE, glitch effects. There's a reason a lot of people do well with Audacity and Adobe Audition for podcasts.
> If you want to talk only about the "dem sick beatz" portion of the user base, (I think) you can already do most an electronic music composer would realistically need in S1. Yeah, it's not as focused on that market as Fruity Loops (evil smile) or Ableton Live, but I don't see S1 losing functionality in favour of another type of composer. Plus the current metal and rock, and cinematic scoring scenes have a fair bit of synth and electronic beat usage, so those types of features are useful for everyone.
> 
> ...


I'm talking about what's popular now. Things always change. Metal isn't as popular as hip hop etc right now. That's why you see many companies asking them to demonstrate the products. For better example this is what Steve Slate said whose an actual engineer/plugin developer etc 
"*When you look at the industry as a whole, where do you think we’re heading? What’s going to change?*


“We’re going to see a lot more music creators and producers, and fewer engineers. It’s going to be more about music production, and less about engineering.” 









Plugin mogul Steven Slate: "You don’t need external DSP for tracking, you don’t need it for mixing, and it just doesn’t make sense to me"


Best of 2019: The Slate Digital boss on emulation, motivation and why the future of making music isn’t about audio engineering




www.musicradar.com





Looking at the products he's releasing should give you idea. More producer tools, loops/samples etc.


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## musicmakerbird (Nov 15, 2021)

MarcusD said:


> Fellow forum user, let’s not jump to conclusions. I’m sure the good people at Presonus know what they’re doing.
> 
> Unless they start posting social photos of super cars, wodds of cash and random flour spillages, we have nothing to worry about.


Yes Presonus are good people, but that has nothing do with if Fender if they go in another direction with Studio One etc.


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## MarcusD (Nov 15, 2021)

musicmakerbird said:


> Yes Presonus are good people, but that has nothing do with if Fender if they go in another direction with Studio One etc.


Speculating about directions when we have no tangible clue about Fenders intentions, is pointless.

Would like to think a discussion would’ve taken place, prior to any merger, as to what direction Fender would move, to ensure the best possible future for Presonus products and not have Fender screw it up.

Until things start happening we won’t really know what to expect. For all we know, could actually be a good thing!


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## musicmakerbird (Nov 15, 2021)

MarcusD said:


> Speculating about directions when we have no tangible clue about Fenders intentions, is pointless.
> 
> Would like to think a discussion would’ve taken place, prior to any merger, as to what direction Fender would move, to ensure the best possible future for Presonus products and not have Fender screw it up.
> 
> Until things start happening we won’t really know what to expect. For all we know, could actually be a good thing!


No need to speculate. You already see it. One thing is for sure Studio One beats Cubase!


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## gedlig (Nov 15, 2021)

musicmakerbird said:


> Metal isn't as popular as hip hop etc right now.


Which I personally give 0 @#^% about what's popular.



musicmakerbird said:


> More producer tools, loops/samples etc.


Again, you're mistakenly thinking that „producer tools“ or „producing“ in general means only currently popular common denominator genres. Moving to more producers really means moving towards creators, where a single person is the composer, arranger, musician, sound designer, mixing and mastering engineer all in one. Which is in no way exclusive to hip hop or whatever. Plus popular genres change, sometimes drastically, so don't get hung up on the idea that everything will revolve around the current mass produced genres.

Also Slate is one of many "actual" engineers/plugin developers and is in no way the best of either, and his opinion isn't something you should believe and follow blindly.

You just need to have a wider perspective on the whole industry and not just go full bUt ThIs Is WhAt'S pOpUlAr


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## gedlig (Nov 15, 2021)

musicmakerbird said:


> Studio One beats Cubase


That I can agree with :D


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## MarcusD (Nov 15, 2021)

musicmakerbird said:


> One thing is for sure Studio One beats Cubase!



One thing for certain, that was cringe.


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## muziksculp (Nov 16, 2021)




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## seclusion3 (Nov 16, 2021)

So an O1V studiolive IIII, O2V studiolive IIII


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## dcoscina (Nov 16, 2021)

I agree with other forum members' sentiments- wait to see what happens. I love Studio One and it seems so far that Fender is letting the software division continue to do what they did prior to the acquisition. 

now, that's not to say that I haven't been re-acquainting myself with LPX these past few weeks... coincidence? Perhaps.


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## musicmakerbird (Nov 17, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I agree with other forum members' sentiments- wait to see what happens. I love Studio One and it seems so far that Fender is letting the software division continue to do what they did prior to the acquisition.
> 
> now, that's not to say that I haven't been re-acquainting myself with LPX these past few weeks... coincidence? Perhaps.


I moved over to FL with hoping to learn logic/pro tools in the next several months. Smart move.


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## musicmakerbird (Nov 17, 2021)

muziksculp said:


>



Right on the money at the end.


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