# Choosing the best performance (comparing strings)



## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 21, 2020)

This is a blind test again, but I'm interested to know your preferences. You can choose several options.

This is a composition I'm working on and it's in progress. It's mostly just Legato so far. I have already decided on the principle of libraries that I will use, and which will go to the trash, but I would be interested to hear public opinion. Well, it may also be interesting to find out the result after. Although for sure many of you will already be able to guess what libraries are here.





Spoiler: Answers



1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
3 - Musical Sampling - Soaring Strings
4 - Strezov Sampling - AFFLATUS CHAPTER I Strings(Scene d'Amour Legato)
5 - Cinematic Studio Series - Cinematic Studio Strings
6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings
7 - Orchestral Tools - Berlin Strings
8 - Spitfire Audio - Chember Strings
9 - Cinesamples - CineStrings Core


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## Pianolando (Oct 22, 2020)

Nice writing and recording!
1 Sounds great to me. The best low dynamics of them all.
2 is also nice nut with less top end, maybe a sordino patch? Prefer 1.
3 is kinda horrible in the start with a big, out of character, vibrato. It makes more sense later in the piece but ruins it to me.
4 sounds very subdued, sordino-like. It does not really fit the piece imo.
5 sounds good as well.
6 is good but more roomy. Lacks a bit of the detail of no 1. Guessing wildly here...maybe SSS?
7 sounds good. Great cellos. Maybe Chris Hein Ensemble strings?
8 sounds very good but like a smaller section. Maybe SCS?
9 sounds like the dynamics are higher than most of the other examples. It is also a bit louder, but it's not only that. It sounds a little bit forced to me.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 22, 2020)

Thank you for your views. These are interesting opinions, many of which I share, but not all. I will open the curtain later, but for now I will only say that you were correct in some of your guesses.


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## Artemi (Oct 22, 2020)

Last one is Cinestrings


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## awaey (Oct 22, 2020)

3


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## Stan Stewart (Oct 22, 2020)

I chose 1 and 5 -- mostly for the articulation in the moving passages and dynamic range. I have no idea what any of them are which obviously means that I need more orchestral string libraries. 🤓


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## AndyP (Oct 22, 2020)

1 + 3


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## Sips Tea (Oct 22, 2020)

No. 5 has the most natural tone to my ears. No. 1 has a nice fluid legato and sounds great at the lower dynamics.


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## awaey (Oct 22, 2020)

no 4.. sordino string ?... I liked


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## youngpokie (Oct 22, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> This is a blind test again, but I'm interested to know your preferences. You can choose several options.



2, 5 and 7 (just for the low end) for me. 

I think whatever library you end up using would need to have a well detailed and crisp low end since the piece starts out and spends a while there... 

The other thing that sticks out is the crescendo. Since the strings are legato, I am not sure how far the crescendo on legato can go until it sounds unnatural. Traditionally you would start out with smaller or fewer sections and have more players come in (in addition to natural crescendo) to get that volume and thickness. But in a couple of examples it felt like you were really cranking up the volume knob to distortion instead.

Apart from that, you have a nice theme here, I'm interested to hear where you end up taking it. Cheers!


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## Sovereign (Oct 22, 2020)

5, CSS.


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## MGdepp (Oct 22, 2020)

In the beginning, I like 1 the most. Is it Berlin Strings?


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 22, 2020)

I liked 1, 2, 5, 7. Preferred 1 and 5. In the 2. example, the legato notes were kind of running together in a strange way, almost a bit overlapping. Wonder if that had to do with some release settings or something like that.


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## RogiervG (Oct 22, 2020)

5 it sounded the best to my ears.. (overall: mixing and programming)

But wait... aren't they all secretly the exact same lib? (fooling us) 
each mixed differently, with here and there swapping of the cellos with violas or even violins.
if i take the exact moment in time with each example, and close my eyes and quickly repeat them for a brief few seconds, i hear the exact same transitions and characters (even though the instrument layouts and mixing differs here and there)

And if they are in fact different libs, it means they all catch the realism of sound characters very closely in such way, that it barely makes much difference between them in the end.

Note: above is solely based on these renders and midi programing done by OP. It doesn't say it can or can't sound more convincing in the hands of other musicians.


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## Windbag (Oct 22, 2020)

The first has both the most natural-sounding articulations and manages to carry more tension in the basses than the rest by a fair bit to my ears. It works for the passage, which I'm gonna guess was programmed using that library/patch. In any case, nice movement. Likey


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## lettucehat (Oct 22, 2020)

Curious to see which ones are using bow change legato, if any. I think 2 and 3 are underrated because they have weirder natural eq curves, but with a little sweetening they are right up there with 1 and 5 IMO.


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## Pianolando (Oct 22, 2020)

I would guess that 1 is Berlin strings as well, but quite processed with some exiter or quite a bit of eq.


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## Nate Johnson (Oct 22, 2020)

Damn, I just really like the music.


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## Arbee (Oct 22, 2020)

If we're only talking about legato then #5 was the only one that convinced me from the very start. Most of them actually sound OK otherwise. Yes, nice writing btw!


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 23, 2020)

Wow, guys! Thank you all for participating! I am very interested to read your amazing comments. Very soon I will discover the secret. Maybe after the release of CSW or OPUS which will happen any minute? 



Artemi said:


> Last one is Cinestrings


You have excellent training!




awaey said:


> no 4.. sordino string ?... I liked


Yes, it is con sordino.



MGdepp said:


> In the beginning, I like 1 the most. Is it Berlin Strings?


good effort, but no, try again



RogiervG said:


> But wait... aren't they all secretly the exact same lib? (fooling us)


Funny. These are all completely different libraries. Most of them practically sound out of the box.




Pianolando said:


> I would guess that 1 is Berlin strings as well, but quite processed with some exiter or quite a bit of eq.


No, this is a different library, (hint - newer), but the Berlin strings are also here under a different number.



Nate Johnson said:


> Damn, I just really like the music.


Thank You


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## Sips Tea (Oct 23, 2020)

I thought No. 5 was Berlin Strings and No. 1 was CSS or Con Moto, but I could be wrong.


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## Beans (Oct 23, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> No, this is a different library, (hint - newer), but the Berlin strings are also here under a different number.



#1 is much newer, yes?


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 23, 2020)

Sips Tea said:


> No. 1 was CSS or Con Moto, but I could be wrong.


Hotly! So which one?



Beans said:


> #1 is much newer, yes?


Yes, yes, much newer.


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## Sips Tea (Oct 23, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Hotly! So which one?
> 
> 
> Yes, yes, much newer.


I'm not sure! It was an educated guess based on tone and playability, as I don't own any of those libraries. Was I right with No. 5 being Berlin Strings? I would love to know as I already own that library. If it wasn't Berlin Strings then I will have to buy whichever one you used.


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## Scamper (Oct 23, 2020)

My favorites are 1 and 6.
I think they both have a great dynamic range, a lively performance and a clear sound of a larger hall with a strong low end, that lends well to the piece.
Is 6 SSS or Berlin Strings? Or perhaps 3 is SSS. Hm.

I like 5 (CSS?) as well, but I think this track works better with a bigger sound.

Anyway, I love the composition though and am looking forward to the final track.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 23, 2020)

Sips Tea said:


> I'm not sure! It was an educated guess based on tone and playability, as I don't own any of those libraries. Was I right with No. 5 being Berlin Strings? I would love to know as I already own that library. If it wasn't Berlin Strings then I will have to buy whichever one you used.


No. 5 is not a Berlin Strings. I should have reported that this number was already answered correctly earlier by Sovereign. But he didn't fully name the library. And this abbreviation can mean anything, right? 



Scamper said:


> I like 5 (CSS?) as well, but I think this track works better with a bigger sound.


Bingo!


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## GingerMaestro (Oct 23, 2020)

No 1 is Con Moto I think ? Sounds pretty distinctive to me, I use it nearly every day..


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## GingerMaestro (Oct 23, 2020)

GingerMaestro said:


> No 1 is Con Moto I think ? Sounds pretty distinctive to me, I use it nearly every day..


The Suspense is Killing me !


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 23, 2020)

GingerMaestro said:


> No 1 is Con Moto I think ? Sounds pretty distinctive to me, I use it nearly every day..


Yes, number 1 is Con Moto!


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## Sips Tea (Oct 23, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> No. 5 is not a Berlin String. I should have reported that this number was already answered correctly earlier by Sovereign. But he didn't fully name the library. And this abbreviation can mean anything, right?
> 
> 
> Bingo!


That's surprising! A pleasant surprise of course. I was playing along to your composition using the Berlin Celli Legato patch and they sounded so similiar! I know @ChrisSiuMusic uses both libraries together. I think they would blend fairly well. It doesn't sound as dark as most people say it does. Did you have to use a lot of EQ?


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 23, 2020)

Sips Tea said:


> That's surprising! A pleasant surprise of course. I was playing along to your composition using the Berlin Celli Legato patch and they sounded so similiar! I know @ChrisSiuMusic uses both libraries together. I think they would blend fairly well. It doesn't sound as dark as most people say it does. Did you have to use a lot of EQ?


In this CSS example, I didn't use the equalizer at all. Everything sounds out of the box


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## Sips Tea (Oct 23, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> In this CSS example, I didn't use the equalizer at all. Everything sounds out of the box


Which option do you prefer out of all the examples? Seeing as you are so well acquainted with these libraries, it would be nice to know which one you would choose.


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## Beans (Oct 23, 2020)

It's funny how everything has at least one vote.


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## minhoson (Oct 23, 2020)

3 is Soaring Strings, and 7 is Berlin?


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 23, 2020)

minhoson said:


> 3 is Soaring Strings, and 7 is Berlin?


Exactly!)



Sips Tea said:


> Which option do you prefer out of all the examples? Seeing as you are so well acquainted with these libraries, it would be nice to know which one you would choose.


I'm leaning towards a few of them, and maybe I'll experiment with mixing and layering them together. The result of the vote has already shown these favorites. Number 1 and 5 leaders, this is my choice too. But I also feel the potential in number 3, both as a mid-and upper-range (MP-FF) and excellent Legato with molto vibrato. Also number 2 can be very useful for less pronounced vibrato and without vibrato.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 23, 2020)

ka00 said:


> My gut reaction on initial listening, when listening on iPhone speakers was to make the following notes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. yes Con Moto
2. no
3. yes
4. ?
5. yes
6. ?
7.  
8. yes
9. no


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## Beans (Oct 23, 2020)

2. Nashville Chamber Strings
4. Infinite Strings
6. Abbey Road One legato expansion
7. EWHO Opus update
9. John Powell Strings

Now, let's get those answers!


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 23, 2020)

Okay, here they are:

1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
3 - Musical Sampling - Soaring Strings
4 - Strezov Sampling - AFFLATUS CHAPTER I Strings(Scene d'Amour Legato)
5 - Cinematic Studio Series - Cinematic Studio Strings
6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings
7 - Orchestral Tools - Berlin Strings
8 - Spitfire Audio - Chember Strings
9 - Cinesamples - CineStrings Core


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## Beans (Oct 23, 2020)

After falling back in love with EWHO this summer and after picking up Synchron Strings Pro (enjoying it a good bit), I'd not opened CSS much for a while. Last night, I was tooling around with an abandoned project and fell into a hole of playing with CSS for an hour instead of being productive. 

It sounds lovely here, and great work on your new composition thus far!


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## Kevinside (Oct 23, 2020)

Really interesting to see, that CSS got so much love here. For me, the CSS Example is not the best, suiting this compostion... EQ HO sounds terrible...i think, this kind of composition does not work with Hollywood Strings...I like Berlin Strings and SSS... Berlin, cause it sounds intimitate and SSS, cause the room is perfect for such "lines"....

Con Moto and Soaring Strings give the compostion the emotion, it needs to evolve... And this needs the lyrical aspect (vibrato and more...) to work at all... Which library did you use first, to write this piece...?


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## Sovereign (Oct 23, 2020)

Kevinside said:


> Really interesting to see, that CSS got so much love here. For me, the CSS Example is not the best, suiting this compostion... EQ HO sounds terrible...i think, this kind of composition does not work with Hollywood Strings...I like Berlin Strings and SSS... Berlin, cause it sounds intimitate and SSS, cause the room is perfect for such "lines"....
> 
> Con Moto and Soaring Strings give the compostion the emotion, it needs to evolve... And this needs the lyrical aspect (vibrato and more...) to work at all... Which library did you use first, to write this piece...?


CSS not lyrical enough? Not enough vibrato? C'mon man!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Oct 23, 2020)

2 sounds best to me. Sounds like CSS.

Edit:
Oh it’s been revealed already what is what? 
Just added comment without reading other comments.

Edit2:
Wow, 2 is HS Diamond! Nice! I actually have that  Vintage mic sounds amazing, I found out myself too by experimenting.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 23, 2020)

Kevinside said:


> Which library did you use first, to write this piece...?


The first was CSS.


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## Trash Panda (Oct 23, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Okay, here they are:
> 
> 1 - Performance Samples - Con Moto
> 2 - EastWest - Hollywood String Diamond(Vintage + a little Close mic)
> ...


Do you have AI Areia? I'm curious how it would hold up.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 23, 2020)

The Serinator said:


> Do you have AI Areia?


Nope.


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## José Herring (Oct 23, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> This is a blind test again, but I'm interested to know your preferences. You can choose several options.
> 
> This is a composition I'm working on and it's in progress. It's mostly just Legato so far. I have already decided on the principle of libraries that I will use, and which will go to the trash, but I would be interested to hear public opinion. Well, it may also be interesting to find out the result after. Although for sure many of you will already be able to guess what libraries are here.




(** edit: All this was written before I saw the post with the reveal. Interesting)


** 1 and 2 equal to me in terms of quality. Neither good nor bad. Passable.

3 -- nice tone, low dynamics don't work. but the cello line is the best so far.

4 nice dark tone, doesn't connect well

5-- my favorite until now. Good sound.

6 -- Dark and ominous. I love the sound. Connection good in the vlns but not good in the cellos. Then falls apart after the cresc. Not connected at all. But, with a little work you could make this the best example for this piece.

7 -- low stings awesome. Not a fan of the violins/violas synthy sounding. Cells and basses are great.

8 -- Nice. Bit of a sucking sound in the low dynamics. Dead give away for bad legato. Kind of noticed that throughout but really nice tone of the strings. Most natural sounding like in a good recording studio.

9 -- I kind of dig the sound though I know some won't. Nasaly in the cellos though. Very good connection. Upfront but I like it a lot.

Overall most of the libraries could do it. The only real problem is the arps at the end. No library did that at all convincingly with just one patch.

I wouldn't trash any of these libraries. They all have a certain quality that makes them pretty good. You could find a use for them in the right context.


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## gussunkri (Oct 23, 2020)

Thanks for doing this. My favorites were 1 and 5, with 7 being a runner up. Which is too bad because I do not own any of those. In fact, it turns out I only have 8 and I didn't like that here. For what it's worth, here are my notes while listening:



Lively, but struggles with the fast bit in the end.
Duller.
Did not like, but great at the fast end.
Muted and dull sounding. Pretty real sounding. Fast end, was indistinct but real sounding.
Distinct, and intimate. Smaller ensemble? I like these. Can handle the faster end quite well. (Guessing Berlin strings.)
Really fat bass. Slightly indistinct. Some odd volume envelopes. Uneven in the dynamics? Bumpy? Nice tone. Fast end was very blurry. (Guessing SSS)
Quite distinct, but not as intimate as 5. Lusher than five. Smooth. Struggles a bit with the fast end. Similar to how 1 did.
More detailed and intimate. Perhaps slightly odd release-tails. Sounds a bit chopped off. Some odd notes sticking out in the fast bit. (Guessing SCS.)
Quite distinct cello which is popping out a lot. Less even? Very indistinct fast bit at the end.


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## lettucehat (Oct 23, 2020)

Glad to see my ears are consistent with what OP likes, even if I didn't guess the libraries per se. I voted for 1, 2, 3, and 5. You can definitely hear the bow change making a big difference in 1 (Con Moto, proud owner!), and I feel validated in sticking up for 2 (Hollywood Strings, proud owner!), which just needs the right mic mix and/or eq. You can hear the actual performance quality is there, though not sure if this is a bow change patch from Diamond. Of course, Soaring Strings (3) is great for this type of writing and CSS (5) needs no introduction. I'm not sure if it has bow change but it more than makes up for it with its overall realism and polish. Great little exercise, thanks OP!


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## AndyP (Oct 23, 2020)

Of the 9 String Libraries I have 4.
1 Con Moto, 2 HOS Diamond, 3 Soaring Strings and 9 Cinestrings.
It reassures me that I do not need all the others when I hear the comparison.

I would be interested to know how VSL Synchron Strings I or Pro, Century Strings and Areia would do in this comparison.


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## filipjonathan (Oct 23, 2020)

Areia would not hold up well cause of the crappy legato transitions, I don't know why you guys keep bringing it up.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 23, 2020)

AndyP said:


> I would be interested to know how VSL Synchron Strings I or Pro, Century Strings and Areia would do in this comparison.



To be honest, most of all I would really like to hear how it sounds with Vista or Nashville Chamber Strings. Does anyone have them?

Anyway, as soon as I get them, I'll make this comparison.


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## Zero&One (Oct 24, 2020)

Choice 1. Then maybe 6, they all had merits but 1 drew me back each time. 

Didn't see the reveal until later. Wish I hadn't looked as PS code might be getting used today


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 24, 2020)

José Herring said:


> Overall most of the libraries could do it. The only real problem is the arps at the end. No library did that at all convincingly with just one patch.


I wonder what kind of patch/articulation would be suitable for a more convincing result?


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 24, 2020)

ALTM said:


> Ha! Now I see why OP liked this comment. Glad to see my ears are consistent with what they like, even if I didn't guess the libraries per se. I voted for 1, 2, 3, and 5. You can definitely hear the bow change making a big difference in 1 (Con Moto, proud owner!), and I feel validated in sticking up for 2 (Hollywood Strings, proud owner!), which just needs the right mic mix and/or eq. You can hear the actual performance quality is there, though not sure if this is a bow change patch from Diamond.


As for HS, I used Leg BC + Slur + Port patches. For me, it was like a regular Leg Slur and I didn't notice the difference between them. I haven't tried Leg BC yet. As far as I understand from the manual BC + Slur are selected automatically by scripts. That is, with slow intervals played legato bow change, with fast legato slur, or am I wrong? I have Hollywood Strings recently and I'm still learning them.

As an alternative, I made a different mix with Hollywood Strings (priority in descending order Mid+Close+Main+SRND) Leg BC + Slur + Port patches still without equalizer


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## GtrString (Oct 24, 2020)

6-5-9 in that order for me. I try to listen fast and establish my preferences before rationalization sets in.

I have no idea which is which, and I probably dont own any of them. 

With strings I listen to the mids a lot, and I dont like pushed mids in an orchestra sound. Also smooth, natural sounding transitions is important, so thats my deduction and preferences.


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## Sips Tea (Oct 24, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> To be honest, most of all I would really like to hear how it sounds with Vista or Nashville Chamber Strings. Does anyone have them?
> 
> Anyway, as soon as I get them, I'll make this comparison.


Looking forward to hearing this with Vista.


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## Sips Tea (Oct 24, 2020)

A question for those who have voted. If you had to chose between No. 1 (Con Moto) and No. 5 (CSS) from this example, which one would you choose and why? I like the expressiveness of Con Moto and I think it is the only example that has performed the romantic melody appropriately. I'm sure you've heard the saying "horses for courses", well I think this library feels right at home in this passage. CSS got a bit lower mid-range heavy as the dynamics increased and doesn't shine very well in the upper ranges of each instrument, although I do like the tone of the celli.


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## Scamper (Oct 24, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> 6 - Spitfire Audio - Symphonic Strings


Nice, I was hoping the 6 to be SSS.
If this is the very low end of dynamics for Berlin Strings, it's a bit disappointing.

For this kind of thing, I think Con Moto has a leg up against even CSS, so I'm also curious what Vista will be like after those promising teasers.


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## JonS (Oct 24, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> This is a blind test again, but I'm interested to know your preferences. You can choose several options.
> 
> This is a composition I'm working on and it's in progress. It's mostly just Legato so far. I have already decided on the principle of libraries that I will use, and which will go to the trash, but I would be interested to hear public opinion. Well, it may also be interesting to find out the result after. Although for sure many of you will already be able to guess what libraries are here.
> 
> ...



Any of these strings are fine. It goes to show you how one can’t really mess this up if you think you bought the wrong library, you probably didn’t.


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## Sovereign (Oct 24, 2020)

Sips Tea said:


> A question for those who have voted. If you had to chose between No. 1 (Con Moto) and No. 5 (CSS) from this example, which one would you choose and why? I like the expressiveness of Con Moto and I think it is the only example that has performed the romantic melody appropriately. I'm sure you've heard the saying "horses for courses", well I think this library feels right at home in this passage. CSS got a bit lower mid-range heavy as the dynamics increased and doesn't shine very well in the upper ranges of each instrument, although I do like the tone of the celli.


I have both and quite frankly I'd go with CSS, for multiple reasons. I prefer the smoothness of the CSS legatos, CM is more abrupt and bumpy. And there's a reason Jasper dialed back the vibrato a bit for Vista, at times it's too much. Quite frankly in hindsight I would not have purchased CM, since it does nothing CSS can't do and lacks many things which CSS does do.


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## Kevinside (Oct 24, 2020)

deleted


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Oct 24, 2020)

To me, 
#1 sounds great until the fast violins come in near the end,
#5 sounds best overall.
Strangely, I also quite like #4 in spite of the artifacts.


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## José Herring (Oct 25, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> I wonder what kind of patch/articulation would be suitable for a more convincing result?


I did a quick little fast vln line. I used HS stacc legato slur plus Syspro agile legato. Not sure if it is any more "convincing" but it kind of sounds cool.

One of my secret weapons for doing fast string lines is the stacc legato slur patches in HS layered with another regular slur patches. Then ride the mod wheel or cc 11 or both up and down. Kind of do what our teachers taught is not to do, when the line goes up get louder when it goes down get softer. If it was in the context of a piece I would also get a little faster then slower as it went up and down. Too bad our daws don't give is independent tempo control over each track then we cold rush and then slow down to catch up like real people do.


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Oct 25, 2020)

Sovereign said:


> I have both and quite frankly I'd go with CSS, for multiple reasons. I prefer the smoothness of the CSS legatos, CM is more abrupt and bumpy. And there's a reason Jasper dialed back the vibrato a bit for Vista, at times it's too much. Quite frankly in hindsight I would not have purchased CM, since it does nothing CSS can't do and lacks many things which CSS does do.


As I think Con Moto can give more assertiveness for CSS due to its expressiveness, especially in the ff range. This is his passion for vibrato and the change of bow that he has. No other library is capable of transmitting this like this.


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## erikradbo (Nov 20, 2020)

This was just the medicine for not caving in and getting Afflatus on the BF deal. I already have HO and CSS which sounds much more fluid here. I also have SCS but it just doesn't sound very good. Granted, Afflatus strength might lie elsewhere, but I realize I still have miles to go exploring especially HO.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 20, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> As I think Con Moto can give more assertiveness for CSS due to its expressiveness, especially in the ff range. This is his passion for vibrato and the change of bow that he has. No other library is capable of transmitting this like this.


Sorry I missed this earlier. I _love_ your writing in this piece. And this comparison is awesome and super useful, thank you for doing it.


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## Unknown (Feb 27, 2021)

I accidentally voted for the best number


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## muziksculp (Feb 27, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> I have both and quite frankly I'd go with CSS, for multiple reasons. I prefer the smoothness of the CSS legatos, CM is more abrupt and bumpy. And there's a reason Jasper dialed back the vibrato a bit for Vista, at times it's too much. Quite frankly in hindsight I would not have purchased CM, since it does nothing CSS can't do and lacks many things which CSS does do.


@Sovereign ,

Interesting what you wrote above. 

I was tempted to buy Con Moto given I like the way they sound in many demos, and they are on sale. I don't hear bumpy legatos, and love their timbre, and expressive quality. 

So, should I not bother buying them since I already have CSS ? 

Thanks.


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## Sovereign (Feb 28, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> @Sovereign ,
> 
> Interesting what you wrote above.
> 
> ...


Well they're 'bumpy' because they're supposed to be, as each new note is a new bow stroke and therefore accented. I merely expressed my preference that I would not go for a detache bowing (one bow per note) in an emotional phrase per se.

Calling the CM bowings 'legato' is IMO a real misnomer. The bowed legatos in CM are really detache bow strokes, and as such indispensable as much of what violin players do is detache bowing. Since CSS does not have that articulation (sadly) they complement one another just fine.

Here's an audio example, first is CM second is Vista. You can clearly hear the individual bowings in the CM example, compared to the slurred Vista legatos.

So would I recommend these? Yes, if you're after more realism.


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## muziksculp (Feb 28, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> Well they're 'bumpy' because they're supposed to be, as each new note is a new bow stroke and therefore accented. I merely expressed my preference that I would not go for a detache bowing (one bow per note) in an emotional phrase per se.
> 
> Calling the CM bowings 'legato' is IMO a real misnomer. The bowed legatos in CM are really detache bow strokes, and as such indispensable as much of what violin players do is detache bowing. Since CSS does not have that articulation (sadly) they complement one another just fine.
> 
> ...


Hi @Sovereign ,

Thanks for the helpful feedback. 

I think Con Moto's Detache bowing style is better suited for slower moving phrases, vs Vista, or CSS fingered legatos where notes are played legato within one bow stroke, tend to work better for faster notes phrases. 

I hear quite a smooth bow transition in the demos of CM when the bow changes direction, but it is more audible in your audio demo, I'm guessing that can be controlled via Dynamics. (CC1) ? 

I also like CM's Timbre quite a bit. I'm still undecided if I need them, but hope to decide before the discounted price expires. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## FireGS (Feb 28, 2021)

Sovereign said:


> Well they're 'bumpy' because they're supposed to be, as each new note is a new bow stroke and therefore accented. I merely expressed my preference that I would not go for a detache bowing (one bow per note) in an emotional phrase per se.
> 
> Calling the CM bowings 'legato' is IMO a real misnomer. The bowed legatos in CM are really detache bow strokes, and as such indispensable as much of what violin players do is detache bowing. Since CSS does not have that articulation (sadly) they complement one another just fine.
> 
> ...


Different mics loaded here?


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## curry36 (Jun 3, 2022)

Thanks for your work, this is a very good comparison! I wish there was more of these in that quality out there. Any plans of doing another one with a different bpm? I am asking because I feel that very realistic sounding libraries like CSS force me to compose in certain tempi in which the legato transitions just sound right, and it doesn't surprise me that you scored this one with CSS, as it sounds just perfect compared to the others when it comes to realism of the playing.

Though I have to say that Vista nailed it as well - I am very surprised about that one.

I would rank like this (ignoring the fast violin part in the ending because obviously that needs some individual treatment):

Favorite: *CSS* - even without shining on the climax part (which is such a pitty trade off in honor to your nice composition) it's overall the most enjoyable to my ears, because I just don't question the realism and I'm not trying to find the MIDIness in there. I would be very interested to know if Cinematic Strings 2 would get the climax done because of it's brighter sound in comparison to CSS.

Second: *Vista* - and I was even considering putting this one on number 1, because it even got the climax done due to the wider dynamic range. For your composition, this might be even the better choice, but as an overall convincing tool for underscoring I'd put CSS a tiny bit above Vista.

Third: *Con Motto* - it did everything right besides the realism within the legato transitions. The sound is rich, big, expensive, dynamic. I think it's a perfect addition to CSS for cutting through and getting this rich and powerful top-end, when needed. And for less intimate scores with lots of other things happening, I could easily see this one to be the most rewarding, most user friendly and efficient solution.

Damn, I had no idea of how good Performance Samples products are. I thought that the combination of CSS and Berlin Strings was the thing, but after this demo I am considering to swap Berlin Strings with either Con Motto or Vista as my 2nd go-to library. But one thing I noticed there, I think that you didn't use the strong vibrato setting on Berlins violins and violas, right? For me this is what makes them sound so great and def helps to fight against the known claims that Berlin Strings can sound like a synth sometimes. If you still got the project it would be great to have another export run with those settings.

Btw I am also glad to see that I don't need to stress myself anymore with laying eyes on Afflatus or Nashville Scoring Strings - thank you for that. 

I hope that you are planning more comparisons like this one, especially for woodwinds and brass. That would be really great!


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## doctoremmet (Jun 4, 2022)

I gather you already have Con Moto then? Because it is a retired product that can’t be purchased anymore. But maybe keep an eye out for Pacific Strings.


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## curry36 (Jun 5, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> I gather you already have Con Moto then? Because it is a retired product that can’t be purchased anymore. But maybe keep an eye out for Pacific Strings.


I just realised that after writing this post. Damn. But I think I am prefering Vista over Con Motto anyways. 

Pacific Strings sound promising as well. I wonder if it got the human feel of Vista (nice amount of vibrato and nice legato transitions) and comes just with a different ensemble size.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 5, 2022)

curry36 said:


> comes just with a different ensemble size.


This. Plus it has way more to offer in terms of articulations of course.


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## Batrawi (Jun 5, 2022)

strange I haven't noticed this old post from Vladimir until recently. Some very useful comparisons as usual! 
I voted 2.... by far it sounds the best to me in terms of legato as well as overall sound. Legatos just sound "on-spot"! they are effortlessly natural and don't suffer from any noticeable sluggishness or rushing-over which are usually a pitfalls which exposes the majority of the libraries. Soundwise, very cohesive and balanced across the sections. The vibrato is just with the right amount to hear the different sections play hand-in-hand without fighting or trying to blur each others' performance. The low ends are also just excellent, giving the right amount of beefiness/power to the piece, which uplifts the other sections rather than burying them.


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## Orpheus Glory (Jun 5, 2022)

I only recvently got into this world, and enjoy the AI sound. Anyway, despite the old post I listened to it blind and liked #7 best, which was Berlin strings.


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