# The problem with piracy: ATTITUDE



## RiffWraith (Jan 19, 2011)

I think we all know what torrent sites are, and their purpose. And I think we all know that every torrent/file sharing site claims that they are not in violation of any laws nor copyright infringement; that they are just providing a means and a way for people to get together and share files, and that they (the site) can not control what people do with those files. Ok, you can say that is part of the problem. But I think the bigger problem is people's attitudes towards file sharing - when you have people screaming about a democratic government legally taking down a torrent site being "loss of freedom", and making insinuations of Communism, _that_ is the real problem.

Case in point - a popular torrent site was recently taken down, apparently via a court-ordered seizure warrant. While I do not know for a fact that this was done with a warrant, I am going to give the US Govt the benefit of the doubt here.

And then what happens? People start complaining - but not just, "oh - that's too bad", and "ah well, there goes my free ride" - no. If you listen to these complaints, you would think that the US is about to turn into Nazi Germany - or some other like dictatorship. In fact, there were actually several references to Hitler and N.G. Just look at some of these comments:

The end of internet freedom? Back to Soviets?

U$A = worse than nazi totalitarian imperialist dictatorship...

You can thank the liberal voters who voted Barrak Insane Obama into the white house. The biggest gangster in American History. The undisputed king of Audacity to take it upon himself to order any seizure without due process. (_Last I checked, court orders were in fact due process_)

your freedom isl under attack AGAIN

How unfair,companies put very very very high prices which we can't afford,so everyone buys what s/he can buy then share it with others...

As long as we did not burn this files and mass produce to be sold at the market, I think there is no piracy if we use those software for ourselves. (_WHAT?!?!?_)

Another blatant violation of civil rights that our forefather's fought and died for. George Washington how does it feel to have the country you founded spit on your grave

I know this is just one form of usage for torrents but...Torrents help in so many ways, look at all the students who use them for projects for school and research....so we gotta pay for that now???? I fail to see how torrents do harm sorry but I just don't see it.

One step at a time, America, the socialist nation.

Land of the free my arse!!!!!!!!!!

Totaly out of order! Where is the free internet? (_That a joke?_)

Governments need to PISS-OFF and leave the Torrent sites alone. The GREED of the Record and Movie Industries is mind boggling. I OWN all my CD's and DVD's. Paid for. If I feel like sharing them, then I will. 

For a second i thought i was living in a communist country..

That's bs. We don't live in a communist country!

Welcome to a totalitarian state!

Demonoid is providing a great service to developing countries like India by providing a lot of nice material through internet. 

Let Freedom Ring. Leave our rights alone as long as we are in infringing on anyone elses. (_Gee, isn't theft infringing on the rights of others?_)

I would not have believed anyone if they told me how much the US govt already censors anò 9   ÆÜ 9   Æ 9   Æ* 9   Æn 9   Æ	t 9   Æ	¤ 9   Æâ 9   Æû 9   Æ m 9   Æ ¢ 9   Æ î 9   Æ 9   Æo 9   Æ™ 9   Æõ 9   Æ* 9   ÆM 9   Æj 9   ÆŸ 9   Æ¼ 9   Æ¹ 9   Æ½ 9   Æ 9   Æ· 9   Æi 9   Ær 9   Æ( 9   ÆF 9   Æ` 9   Æ| 9   Æê 9   Æ 9   Æº 9   Æ! 9   Æ” 9   ÆÌ 9   Æ  9   Æ C 9   Æ y 9   Æ ¡ 9   Æ ó 9   Æ!1 9   Æ!™ 9   Æ"9 9   Æ$ƒ 9   Æ$Ë 9   Æ% 9   Æ%¯ 9   Æ'o 9   Æ'³ 9   Æ(M 9   Æ(Š 9   Æ*s 9   Æ*Ù 9   Æ+Û 9   Æ,  9   Æ,. 9   Æ,G 9   Æ,´ 9   Æ,ë 9   Æ.æ 9   Æ/D 9   Æ0” 9   Æ0© 9   Æ3t 9   Æ3Õ 9   ÆD 9   ÆDí 9   ÆSæ 9   ÆT  9   ÆTw 9   ÆU  9   ÆW
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## NYC Composer (Jan 21, 2011)

Dude, I agree with your premise, but really-read the postings after any CNN.com article.

Regardless of the topic, they are rife with bigotry, hate, political ranting, misogyny and a whole lot of general dumbness.


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## synergy543 (Jan 21, 2011)

NYC Composer @ Fri Jan 21 said:


> Dude, I agree with your premise, but really-read the postings after any CNN.com article.
> 
> Regardless of the topic, they are rife with bigotry, hate, political ranting, misogyny and a whole lot of general dumbness.


 :D 

That was a good one Larry. And too true!


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## SergeD (Jan 21, 2011)

So easy to mix up "free" and "freedom". ..

The key to slow down piracy is to force (by law) internet providers to control their traffic content. If anti-virus softwares works fairly well so why not anti-torrents sites do the same ? Already, I just Googled torrents warez and got 90,600,000 results ! 

And better, those anti-torrents softwares should be free so they could not complaint about their loss of freedom !

SergeD


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## Mike Greene (Jan 21, 2011)

I don't think the problem with piracy is attitude so much as it's wimpiness on the part of the U.S. government. A few commenting nutjobs to the contrary, just about everybody knows that they shouldn't be downloading Ironman 2 or Windows 7 for free.

Even if the public doesn't agree, it doesn't matter. Like with drug laws that many may disagree with, law enforcement still steps in.

I really don't see why these sites seem to carry on without consequences. Maybe copyright law is civil, rather than criminal (I'm not sure.) But even if that were the case, new laws can be written.

I would think the major studios would be lobbying for this. It's certainly something that's doable.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 21, 2011)

At this point, it's the Hydra problem-cut off a head, two more spring up in its place.

I for one would have liked to see much more stringent enforcement early on when it might have been more effective, but I still would like to see it now.


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## Mike Greene (Jan 21, 2011)

If all they do is simply shut down sites without any other consequence, then I think we'd be looking at a Hydra situation. But if they added real consequences, even as little as $1,000 fines per site, then people will be less inclined to start new sites.


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## snowleopard (Jan 21, 2011)

Replace the word "Pirate" with "Tea Party" and...


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## NYC Composer (Jan 21, 2011)

Mike Greene @ Sat Jan 22 said:


> If all they do is simply shut down sites without any other consequence, then I think we'd be looking at a Hydra situation. But if they added real consequences, even as little as $1,000 fines per site, then people will be less inclined to start new sites.



I'm for any sort of punitive measures, whether they're effective or not. I think it's a criminal matter. Theft of services, theft of copyrighted material,whatever. I am tired of the easy way people slough off their responsibility to pay for the use of digital media.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 22, 2011)

The problem is also that the internet is global. Shut down one site and another just springs up.

I questioned on the other piracy thread whether Google should take a lot more responsibility. Just search for almost any sample library (or any software for that matter), and if torrent sites aren't at or near the top of the list, Google ACTIVELY SUGGESTS "did you mean xxx torrent" or several other euphemisms for the same thing. This is crazy - you're bombarded with illegal activity even on basic legit searches and actively encouraged to search again with this illegal critera added. It would be the work of a Google employee's morning to code those suggestions out at least, and I think blocking the torrent sites from searches wouldn't be that hard either. Google is the conduit for some 90% of searches. Doing this wouldn't eliminate piracy, but I'm sure it would greatly reduce it - maybe some people have this warped sense of entitlement cos it is dropped in their virtual laps every time they search for anything. As others have said here, theft isn't the same as freedom of speech. Oh, and other main search engines should follow suit.

I mentioned this re Google before and no-one here seemed to even want to discuss it.... this is the lowest hanging fruit for the piracy battle imho.


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## lee (Jan 22, 2011)

Noiseboy: Problem is, piracy doesnt depend on google. It doesnt depend on torrents either! Before google, before torrents, piracy was still a big problem. You just have to have the right contacts, and get the right passwords to the right ftp-sites.




RiffWraith @ Sat Jan 22 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sat Jan 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Dude, I agree with your premise, but really-read the postings after any CNN.com article.
> ...



The comments after the cnn-articles have the same attitude as the comments after a torrent taken down, is what I think he meant.

/Johnny


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## wst3 (Jan 22, 2011)

kb123 @ Sat Jan 22 said:


> There is some merit in what noiseboy says about the visibility of such sites. There was a day when every search result returned 100 pages of porn no matter what the search criteria was, that has largely been addressed. Search engines could apply the same principles to torrent sites.


Couldn't agree more! When it required a certain level of computer savvy - and not everyone understood how to access ftp sites or binary news groups, nor did they have to tools to reassemble a multi-part download - then piracy was limited by technology. Over time a lot of very generous folks wrote tutorials to teach wannabe pirates the ropes... so much for technology as a limiting factor!

If search engines would stop promoting illegal torrent sites it would diminish piracy. It would stop folks who weren't serious about stealing - which may sound strange, but a lot of people collect cracked software just to be cool, they don't even use it. You stop them when you make it more difficult to steal... same idea as locking your car. If an experienced car thief wants your car they are going to get your car, you can make them work for it, but you can't stop them.



kb123 @ Sat Jan 22 said:


> I also believe that the methods of copy protection have remained relativelty static for a while and need to be seriously advanced. Anything else is catching the horse after it has bolted. If there is nothing out there that can be easily pirated, there will be no more torrent sites


Not sure this is true. There are some really sharp programmers out there, and they will always find a way around software based copy protection schemes. They can usually find ways around hardware based schemes as well, except for DSP cards like the UAD-1 & 2. You'd have to build the card, and while it can be done it requires a great deal more knowledge, and a lot of money for the tools.

The real problem is that it is a game of sorts, and it has been since the days of the C-64. I used to know a bunch of folks that competed to see who could crack the latest protection scheme... it was done for bragging rights. You aren't ever going to stop these folks, you may make them work harder, but they like that.

The answer, I think, is education... teach people values, teach them to respect the intellectual rights of developers, and then there won't be as many folks out there who think stealing is their entitlement.


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## lee (Jan 22, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Sat Jan 22 said:


> lee @ Sat Jan 22 said:
> 
> 
> > Noiseboy: Problem is, piracy doesnt depend on google. It doesnt depend on torrents either! Before google, before torrents, piracy was still a big problem. You just have to have the right contacts, and get the right passwords to the right ftp-sites.
> ...



True. Google makes it available to alot of people who dont have a clue about ftp.

/Johnny


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## NYC Composer (Jan 22, 2011)

lee @ Sat Jan 22 said:


> Noiseboy: Problem is, piracy doesnt depend on google. It doesnt depend on torrents either! Before google, before torrents, piracy was still a big problem. You just have to have the right contacts, and get the right passwords to the right ftp-sites.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep. Or really, anywhere on the 'net. It's as if every idiot who can't spell has an opinion they simply must share.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 22, 2011)

Oh, and btw, RW? It's sort of hard to offend me, but I amused by ?????.
To me, multiple question marks ="you are a hopeless, incomprehensible assclown".

(which, of course, might have been exactly what you meant, but if not-I'm just sayin').


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## RiffWraith (Jan 22, 2011)

NYC Composer @ Sun Jan 23 said:


> To me, multiple question marks ="you are a hopeless, incomprehensible assclown".



LOL - no, that's not what I meant by that at all. I was just confused by your remark at the time, is all. Apologies if it came across as condescending - not the intent at all.

Cheers.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 22, 2011)

Hehe. Cheers, indeed!


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 23, 2011)

OK. Hot to harp on, but...

The more I think about the Google situation the more I think it's mad how everyone just accepts this. It's like going into a store and browsing, then a sales assistant comes up:

SALES ASSISTANT: Hi there - just wondering if you'd prefer to have all this stuff for free?

YOU: Huh?

SALES ASSISTANT: Sure, just ask and I'll tell where you can get all this stuff ripped off for nothing! "Buying" is for squares and bores...

I'm not saying it totally explains the misplaced sense of entitlement, but it sure doesn't help...

So why is it ok to do this in the virtual realm? Why aren't retailers clubbing together to put pressure on Google to stop this? Everyone seems to just shrug their shoulders like its inevitable when it's just the policy of one virtual monopoly to actively encourage illegal trade. Some huge percentage of online sales start with a Google search, it has to be the most popular way in.... and at that first contact (for software), Google gently takes you by the hand and first of all actively SUGGESTS you get it illegally, even if that thought never even occurred to you, and then secondly takes you right there if you take them up on their kind offer. WTF?

If there isn't already a lobbying group regarding this, why not?


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## Mike Greene (Jan 24, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Mon Jan 24 said:


> Mike Greene @ Fri Jan 21 said:
> 
> 
> > If all they do is simply shut down sites without any other consequence, then I think we'd be looking at a Hydra situation. But if they added real consequences, even as little as $1,000 fines per site, then people will be less inclined to start new sites.
> ...


I'm no internet expert, so don't quote me on any of this, but I think that the U.S. government can block certain IP addresses if they want to. They can simply have a (constantly updated) list they give to all the domestic internet providers. They may not be able to prosecute people in uncooperative countries, but at least the availability of sites could be slowed.

Plus I'm not sure how many countries there are that are truly uncooperative when it comes to stuff like this. I think most countries want to "do the right thing," if only someone (not necessarily the U.S.) would just take the lead.

For example, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that child pornography is pretty much gone from the internet altogether. I don't know what was involved in making that happen, but it's gone. (At least I hope it is. I ain't doin' a Google search to test this theory. :mrgreen: )

Even if there are uncooperative countries, I think they're not that big a problem, because my guess is that the brains behind most of the cracks live in countries that would want to participate in cleaning up the problem. Tons of people can *find* a crack for various apps, but only a handful of people can *make* those cracks. Sure, if one of these guys has a good buddy who lives in Crackylvania, he can then distribute his work that way, but if IP addresses keep getting blocked and his work doesn't get seen like it used to, then he's no longer the underground celebrity he once was and his motivationò O    7 O    8 O    9 O    : O


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## dp_audio (Jan 24, 2011)

NYC Composer @ Mon Jan 24 said:


> I suppose it's to much to ask to try to attach the idea of moral hazard to the next generation, like "stealing is wrong, as you know-well, watching a movie you haven't rented or downloading a song you don't pay for =stealing".



I think the moral battle has already been lost. People are going to continue to do it until they believe there are real, serious legal risks involved. I know there have been some lawsuits and arrests, but obviously not enough to get people scared.


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## schatzus (Jan 24, 2011)

> Crackylvania...



Nice place but I wouldn't want to live there...
Kidding..it's been a long day.


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## shadoe42 (Jan 24, 2011)

the problem with site banning IP addresses is you run the risk of blocking legit users. Which despite piracy you do not want to do.


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## Mike Greene (Jan 24, 2011)

I used the wrong term when I said IP addresses. What I meant was url's or whatever the unique numbers or identifiers that web sites have.


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