# Notes From The Front Line



## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 1, 2005)

Hey gang,

I'm a day or two away from finishing a blues/rock style score I'm doing for a Canadian feature film. I thought I'd share some of my experiences with you and... huh... actually, I just want to rant!!! :evil: :lol: 

- First of all, most of the 'score' is made up of songs by local bands on labels/publishers that don't charge much for their use. There's soooo much of that going on these days! What this translates into, at least in my experience, is that the composer is called upon to write mostly transition music, and the emotion-filled scenes are the ones where the licensed music is used. :roll: 

- I had the director tell me that I should try drums-only for a few of the scenes, because he/she didn't like what the pitched notes were doing to the scene. Fortunately, I managed to please him by using only 2-3 chords/notes for some of the cues. Less was so much more here. Not that I am happy mind you. But I'm reminded, once again, that film is a collaborative medium, and that the score is only one part of a greater whole. I keep telling myself this when the director suggest only keeping the triangle for another cue. :( 

- How easy it is to assume that everyone thinks like you when it comes to music as score. In one case, I thought the music should convey the atmosphere of a given scene. Turns out both the director and the producer think that the music is actually tied to a specific character. So, when the character leaves the room, so does the music. OK, ok, I know all about leitmotifs, but there's also something to be said for consistency of mood.

- Unless you have a big name, and corresponding moneys in your bank account, you sure have to a chameleon to stay in this game. The director has a completely different personality than mine. Opposite almost. And of course, this shows in the choices that he/she makes. So instead of being dynamic, my stuff has to be laid-back. Interestingly, then I find that people are finding dynamics in the simplest of lines/arrangements. Not a bad exercise, actually, but one that I find myself going into kicking and screaming!

- It took me quite a while to shake off my television writing influence. I found that I was underlining stuff in this feature with much too thick a hand. In my experience at least, I've found that the mediums require completely different approaches, and it can take a while to make the switch. I had to lay off the pedal, a lot! Maybe it's the influence of the ads (with their bombastic soundtracks) that call for less subtle work in tv scoring.

That's it for now. Maybe I should start a blog?! :lol:


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## Niah (Jun 1, 2005)

Thanks for sharing your experiences Ned, I hear it's a jungle out there :wink: 

I think more people should do more posts like this telling their experiences. Either positive or negative.


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## Dr.Quest (Jun 1, 2005)

Thanks for sharing Ned. I don't want to highjack your thread but I just came off a grueling deadline for 40 minutes of music in about 3 weeks.
These are interesting times.
J


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 1, 2005)

Jamie,

Wow, that's a lot of music for that short a time. You're not threadjacking at all! In fact, if you share some of your good and bad experiences, you'll be very OT (On Topic!).


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## José Herring (Jun 1, 2005)

I find that was the case when I was doing more independently minded films Ned. Now though I'm still doing independents everybody I work for wants their movie to sell.

So now I find the complete opposite is going on. Now everybody wants a big ass wall to wall music score where the music doesn't let up.

I'm still trying to figure film makers out. I've finally come to the conclusion that 90% of them just have bad taste in music. So half of my time I spend showing them films and having them isolate the music. Because believe it or not most film makers aren't really aware of the music in their favorite films.

For what it's worth here's my conclusions. Film makers aren't like musicians. Musicians have to know their craft inside out in order to produce a result. The "art" of film making is the craft of putting something on a moving picture. Now anybody can write a script, hold and camera and shoot. Some people are good at it. Some people aren't. But that doesn't stop them from making a movie. So, you're job is to make that movie the best that it can be.

With that thought often I'll tell filmmakers something like this. 

Me: "You see that scene"
Director: Yeah
Me: It ain't workin'
Director: Yeah I know. Don't know what to do about that.
Me: We'll that hip triangle that you want for 2 mins is going to make your movie sound cheesy and all those songs you have-- sounds like your making an MTV video. Do you really want your film to sound like Limp Bizkit all the time?
Director: Well, that's what's hip. The kids dig it.
Me: Well the kids aren't going to care if your film doesn't work
Dir: Ah,
Me: Let me do my job and I can give you something that will elevate the scene to a professional level.
Dir: What do you mean?
Me: I mean that if this thing doesn't sound like a really good film then it won't sell. If it won't sell then you'll loose big money. We gotta sell the genre.
Dir: Ah, alright.



Some variation of that always gets their attention. I learned this the hard way. I had a guy in here that insisted that I do a solo guitar score. He wanted all these cheezy songs and stuff too. I just did it and didn't really care about fighting with him on anything or enlightening him. Then after I'm finished a few months goes by and he's ready for distribution. He sells the film but he tells me that if he had it to do all over again he would have given me the time and resources to to a really great job. He says he feels like he shorted me and hemmed me in and he didn't realize how important sound and music are to film.

That's when I came to the conclusion that THEY JUST DON'T KNOW. And, It's up to me to enlighten them. Since then I've gotten a lot of freedom to do as I please. But it takes some communication with the filmmakers.

Jose


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## Dr.Quest (Jun 1, 2005)

Well, for me the fortunate part of the project was that I had it because the people directing it worked with me before and I had really all the freedom I wanted to do as I saw fit. They trusted me. But this is from a relationship developed over years. The killer part for me was the deadline. From Mid-march til mid May they were to deliever a 40 minute animated cartoon for DVD. Not only was I Composer but Sound superviser and video editor for the first act. This is the way modern deadlines are...they want it now and if you can't deliver they go somewhere else. The people funding the project did not want me on it because they always used their own post house with composer but because of the schedule (he would only work to locked picture.) and the fact that my director want me so much I got the job. By the time I got any picture (mid-April) I was hip deep in responsibilities.
The genre was super-hero/spy circa late 60's with a dose of just cartoon-type elements. I could not have done it if I was constantly making changes based on wim. As it was, since I cut Act one I could steer it the way I thought was good. I would have liked that on Acts 2 and 3 but time didn't permit.
Developing a trusted relationship with a director is a great thing, especially one willing to take input. I don't know how many times I heard "We're counting on you to make sense of this scene." Not always a good thing to hear.
The nice part is I got to upgrade my libraries for this project. Now I just need to learn them for the next one. :wink: 

Cheers,
J


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## groove (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi Dr quest & Jose,

thanks for sharing your experience, it is really a source of knowledge for all of us.

i just finished mixing the all soundtrack today (with fx etc...) of my last short movie score (i'll post it soon over here) and was amazed how the director was re considering all is previous option (both musically and sound wise) when it came to mixing !!!

i allready had to rescore this movie because he changed is opinion in the way and was a bit upset about the lack of experience this guy had but i also understood that most director (youngs & crafted) are afraid of music, untill they trust a composer or have a rel good musical culture and taste.

often we have to think for them and sometimes more than them, but hey we need movies to score, so unless we do the job of director it is hard to complain, even if we are all trying to make the best music feeting the movie.

anyway this one for me is finished and now i'll go to sleep


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## José Herring (Jun 1, 2005)

groove said:


> Hi Dr quest & Jose,
> 
> thanks for sharing your experience, it is really a source of knowledge for all of us.
> 
> ...



Your experience is pretty typical. I spent 6 grueling weeks on a project once that yielded 61min. of music. Sleepless nights and everything. Then when I was mixing with the director he couldn't even remember the work that was done!! Hardly recognized one cue or where it went.

Comments like," was that the same cue you played before? Did you change anything from the time I approved it?"

THEY JUST DON'T KNOW. One of these days when I have the clout and bank account to maybe loose a few gigs I swear to you that I'm gonna stop listening to them. Ah, maybe I'll need a little more guts too.

Here's where we can learn from Zimmer. Zimmer typically blows them so far away with his mock up scores that they don't even sometimes show up for the scoring date! How cool is that!

Okay, back to the mock ups.


Jose


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## fictionmusic (Jun 1, 2005)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> 
> - First of all, most of the 'score' is made up of songs by local bands on labels/publishers that don't charge much for their use. There's soooo much of that going on these days! What this translates into, at least in my experience, is that the composer is called upon to write mostly transition music, and the emotion-filled scenes are the ones where the licensed music is used. :roll:
> ...



Hey Ned, congratulations on almost finishing the score! I know exactly what you mean about scores being mostly tunes these days. I blame it on a variety of factors and one of the terms I have come to distrust is "music supervisor". I worked on a series called "Get A Life", which was overseen by a supervisor, and his main goal was getting music for free, under the auspices of helping promote local talent. I had to write transistions, and often was called upon to write replacement music in the style of the band who had either decided not to keep their music in, or who the networks refused to accept. Whenever he told me I didn't have to "re-invent the wheel", I knew he meant "copy that music please". 

A lot of times, I find that the only reason a particular song has been used, is because its lyrics fit the onscreen action. So for a very short time the words and action jibe, and then the tune either gets edited, abandoned, or ceases to make any emotional or subtextual sense.

The other problem is, I think directors and producers view music written to picture differently than music written for its own sake. I think they think of it as being less artistically valid. I find this to be true working with animators especially. They very often confess they were thinking of such and such a tune when they were creating the storybords etc. They kind of think of animation as music videos in that way (like Fantasia). Whenever they put music to it, they seem to want to recreate the stuff they would rather have had (but can't afford). I try to find out what kind of music they like, and if I have any of that kind, I'll slip them some cds so they can animate and visualize to that instead.

I also sympathise with you about using Leitmotifs. While they seem to be appropriate from a conceptual point of view, the actual use of them seems to leave the subtext high and dry. I watched Lawrence of Arabia a couple of nights ago and thoroughly enjoyed the film, except for the music. There was a Lawrence theme (the main one) and while wasn't exactly a leitmotif as such, was used over and over again in different moods and contexts. I hated it the first time I heard it, and after about 20 cues of the same descending interval (in the same key each time too) I was ready to quit watching.

Hmmm...my turn to rant eh?

So what is the name of the film BTW?...I'll keep a look out for it. Having heard some of your stuff already, I'm sure that even with all the hassles you endured, the finished result will be stellar nonetheless.


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## jorgen (Jun 2, 2005)

I met an LA composer who quit writing his own scores and retired to orchestrating. 

"Then I don't have to deal with directors - I HATE DIRECTORS"

-were his words. Seems to be a general experience - not mine yet though.


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## PaulR (Jun 2, 2005)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> - First of all, most of the 'score' is made up of songs by local bands on labels/publishers that don't charge much for their use. There's soooo much of that going on these days! What this translates into, at least in my experience, is that the composer is called upon to write mostly transition music, and the emotion-filled scenes are the ones where the licensed music is used. :roll:



Yes - very interesting post Ned. And do most of us think that syle in flm and TV actually works most of the time - answer - probably not when you sit down and really analyse it. Modern times - yeah baby! :shock: 



Ned Bouhalassa said:


> - I had the director tell me that I should try drums-only for a few of the scenes, because he/she didn't like what the pitched notes were doing to the scene. Fortunately, I managed to please him by using only 2-3 chords/notes for some of the cues. Less was so much more here. Not that I am happy mind you.



That could be because a lot of so-called directors these days appear to have been given birth in a night club during the middle of a rave! :twisted: 



Ned Bouhalassa said:


> But I'm reminded, once again, that film is a collaborative medium, and that the score is only one part of a greater whole. I keep telling myself this when the director suggest only keeping the triangle for another cue. :(



Definitely - the undying rule in my book. Without further quotes from your post - there is a world of difference to writing cues to spots as opposed to the general mock-ups that are done for, and with sample libraries. Mock-ups are nice to listen to in general - but have little or nothing to do with cues. 

In terms of writing what one would wish, as opposed to what is required - hahaha! 

Recently, I watched Collateral, and while it's a pretty good film in that style - the soundtrack and the score (I think it was JNH??) comes across as a complete mish mash to my ears, anyway. This mixing of styles and genres is not a new thing though - in the late fifties and into the sixties, producers sometimes insisted that the film have a potential 'hit song' in the middle of it - obviously for financial reasons.

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## jorgen (Jun 2, 2005)

BTW - NED, It's great to see some real experiences shared here - sharing the knowledge is how we all get better little by little - thanks for that!


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## Buckles (Jun 2, 2005)

Nice post Ned! Thanks!

I have just completed my first feature length flick, but my experience has been pretty smooth. I had the priviledge of working with someone who was both intelligent and appreciative about music for film.

One thing I do have to say, is don't score feature length films while undergoing your final year of University. Im borderline fail this semester thanks to alot of my time being chewed up scoring this film. But hopefully it will get picked up for distribution and it will all be worth it.

-s


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## Niah (Jun 2, 2005)

PaulR said:


> Recently, I watched Collateral, and while it's a pretty good film in that style - the soundtrack and the score (I think it was JNH??) comes across as a complete mish mash to my ears, anyway.



This is a characteristic in all of Michael Mann's films. He assigns one or two composers to do the score and completes the rest with songs from other artists. Sometimes these songs are very filmic and cinematic like in "Heat" and sometimes these are more popular like in "Collateral".

Since "Collateral" is set in the crazy and ecletic city of LA I wasn't really suprised by the mix, it made perfect sense to me.


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## José Herring (Jun 2, 2005)

I just think that Micheal Mann is the perfect example of a great director/film maker who has poor taste in music.

He's good at picking out Jazz tunes as he comes from that background but for score--well all I can say is that he hated and threw out about half of Tevor Jones's score to Last of the Mohicans. What was left in rocked so I have a hard time believing that the rest was any less.

It's a shame. Even Heat which I loved could have been better served with a more lively soundtrack at times.

He's lucky that his movies are so good. Probably doesn't need great music and he probably takes it as an insult to his film making abilities if music has to do too much.

Jose


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## PaulR (Jun 2, 2005)

Niah said:


> Since "Collateral" is set in the crazy and ecletic city of LA I wasn't really suprised by the mix, it made perfect sense to me.



Well, that's right of course. It's a question of taste I suppose. I don't like, and this is just personal taste, soundtracks being mixed with scores. It comes across as an unfinished mess at times. Consistency may be the word I'm struggling for.

Here, you could debate, you have pretty good scoring and pretty good 'inserted' soundtracks that add up to perhaps what LA is supposed to represent in this particular film - a bit of a mess. :wink: 

Mann didn't juxtapose the scoring with the soundtracks against the two almost, pretty well defined central characters of the film either - maybe that was not the way it even should have been or was meant to be. Let's give him credit. lol

Crazy soundtracks played against the hit man's character and more formal scoring against the taxi driver's character, for instance.

Instead, it didn't seem to matter either way, so you get this slight confusion of - uncertain, opaque characterization as opposed to any form of leitmotif - which is fine btw - I don't have a worry about it - but it can drag from pillar to post if you are bothering to notice it - which naturally guys like us do. :lol: 

Soundtracks are fine for me, like say in, 2001 -but I don't like it when it's mixed - but that's purist old me. lol


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