# Sedentary practice: Anyone here (not disabled) choose to work horizontally, ie lying down on sofa/recliner/bed etc?



## nonchai (Dec 12, 2021)

I started working horizontally ( programming aka coding not music ) almost two decades ago - initially and in part - still - because a broken coccyx made it uncomfortable to sit upright in an office chair for a long period of time.

But then - probably cos I'm not lets say "into exercise" - or for whatever reason I just found that more blood supply would go to my head when laying down and I just felt more "clear" and able to work.

Anyone else do the same?

( or am I just a lazy git who should go get some exercise ? )


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## Tralen (Dec 12, 2021)

nonchai said:


> I started working horizontally ( programming aka coding not music ) almost two decades ago - initially and in part - still - because a broken coccyx made it uncomfortable to sit upright in an office chair for a long period of time.
> 
> But then - probably cos I'm not lets say "into exercise" - or for whatever reason I just found that more blood supply would go to my head when laying down and I just felt more "clear" and able to work.
> 
> ...


I'm specialized in anatomy, in anatomical illustration in particular, and worked for a long time in recovery of elderly/frail people.

What you describe as working horizontally shouldn't be a problem, except that, when people speak about something like this, it usually means that their cervical spine is still vertical, so they can look forward to the screen.

Since you are sedentary, that will probably mean that you have no strengthening to speak of, and your cervical spine will be in constant flexion. That will potentially lead to degeneration of the intervertebral discs (degenerative discopathy). That could aggravate to a radiculopathy (impingement of the nerves that run down the spine) and, in that region, that usually entails pain and numbness in the arms, or even loss of function (usually if there is trauma).

In any case, you should *stop being sedentary* regardless if you work horizontally or not.

Having said all that, I also work horizontally most of the time, usually on a hammock, and for the same exact reason, a fractured coccyx (and also a sacroiliac lesion). But I'm very active, I'm a strength athlete, and the hammock allows me to keep my neck neutral.


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## Learningtomix (Dec 12, 2021)

For some reason , those rare times when I hear new music in my head happen most often when lying down, prior to sleep. Then I usually forget the idea before the next day, unless l rehearse the melody, riff, or sequence sufficient times in my head before sleep!


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## MartinH. (Dec 12, 2021)

Tralen said:


> and your cervical spine will be in constant flexion. That will potentially lead to degeneration of the intervertebral disks (degenerative discopathy). That could aggravate to a radiculopathy (impingement of the nerves that run down the spine) and, in that region, that usually entails pain and numbness in the arms, or even loss of function (usually if there is trauma).


Sounds like this may be what may have contributed to my own neck problems. So +1 on the warning against doing this.
Is there anything that can be done to reverse such disk damage? I assume no, but doesn't hurt to ask I guess.


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## Tralen (Dec 12, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Sounds like this may be what may have contributed to my own neck problems. So +1 on the warning against doing this.
> Is there anything that can be done to reverse such disk damage? I assume no, but doesn't hurt to ask I guess.


Strengthening of the muscles that support the cervical and upper thoracic spine will probably alleviate the symptoms, as it will enable you to maintain a better posture. When the spine is in flexion, the nerves are stretched against the herniated material, so proper posture is crucial for avoiding pain and inflammation. Also, maintaining good posture will prevent further degeneration of the discs which could lead to spontaneous resorption of the herniation.

If the case is severe, however, the last recourse would be surgery.


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## jcrosby (Dec 12, 2021)

Learningtomix said:


> For some reason , those rare times when I hear new music in my head happen most often when lying down, prior to sleep. Then I usually forget the idea before the next day, unless l rehearse the melody, riff, or sequence sufficient times in my head before sleep!


Phone audio memos


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## JamelaBanderson (Dec 12, 2021)

I have a recliner chair with adjustable height swinging table, which I use with my laptop or ipad when my back is really bad. Most of the time though, I use a sit/stand desk and ergonomic office chair. My speakers are on stands attached to the desk so that they're always at the right level.
Really wish I could lower both the desk and chair heights, as I'm 5'2. But I guess manufacturers still expect that women should conform to the average male height 😕


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## cloudbuster (Dec 13, 2021)

I (health professional) have been working mainly from the couch or a recliner with my legs up for decades without any ill effects whatsoever. I get up every 30 minutes for some little exercise and do resistance training twice a week but apparently that's not for everyone 😜


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## MartinH. (Dec 13, 2021)

nonchai said:


> initially and in part - still - because a broken coccyx made it uncomfortable to sit upright in an office chair for a long period of time.


Have you tried those special ergonomic cushions that have a gap to not put pressure on that area? 







nonchai said:


> But then - probably cos I'm not lets say "into exercise" - or for whatever reason I just found that more blood supply would go to my head when laying down and I just felt more "clear" and able to work.


That's interesting. I wonder if you could get the same benefit in a sitting working position if you occasionally get up and do a handstand or similar.




nonchai said:


> Anyone else do the same?
> 
> ( or am I just a lazy git who should go get some exercise ? )


I have neck and back issues and I can't flex my neck forward for extended periods, so I was looking for a solution where I can lie down on my bed, keep the neck very straight and still look at a monitor. I managed to jury-rig something together that works for gaming with a gamepad or just watching netflix, but it felt too unhealthy. I think if I overdid this it would give me nerve damage in my arms because of the new pressures on the ulnar nerves from lying down on a soft mattress. I also got a different weird sensation from it, that feels like I'd imagine very low blood sugar to feel, with sweaty trembling hands and some dizzyness.

When you say "horizontal", how horizontal exactly was your position really in your setup?





Tralen said:


> Strengthening of the muscles that support the cervical and upper thoracic spine will probably alleviate the symptoms, as it will enable you to maintain a better posture. When the spine is in flexion, the nerves are stretched against the herniated material, so proper posture is crucial for avoiding pain and inflammation. Also, maintaining good posture will prevent further degeneration of the discs which could lead to spontaneous resorption of the herniation.
> 
> If the case is severe, however, the last recourse would be surgery.


Thanks! Roughly 5 years ago I tried some supervised strength training at a place specializing in excercise for neck and back issues, but it made my symptoms considerably worse, so I stopped quickly. The symptoms usually are pain in one of my fingers, either slowly creeping in or like a needle suddenly jabbed in there. 

When it was at its absolute worst, about 7 years ago, it had me jump up from the couch screaming in pain a few times. That was before I knew for sure what caused it. I eventually figured out it was posture related and as long as I manage to always sit up straight, I don't get the pain in my hands. I only get pain in my back, but that's a different issue. That means certain chairs and virtually all couches don't work for me anymore and I need to be mindfull of how I sit, which gets really exhausting and I had hoped lying down flat was a good way to rest the strained back, but the downsides outweigh the benefits for me as it seems. 

There's one thing I still have issues with: playing guitar requires me to look down and to the left to see the fretboard. I played frequently for a while and noticed the pain in the fingers came back more often, even when not playing. I found the best thing to get some short-term relief is doing a handstand and trying to relax my neck while doing this, or gently pulling my head upwards with both hands while sitting. 
Do you think there's a way to sufficiently counter the damage from looking down and to the left, or do I need to learn to play without looking at the fretboard, or hold the guitar in an awkward position where I can see the fretboard without bending my neck much?

I had an MRI scan done some years ago and they found spinal disc protrusions, in case it matters.


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## Tralen (Dec 13, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Thanks! Roughly 5 years ago I tried some supervised strength training at a place specializing in excercise for neck and back issues, but it made my symptoms considerably worse, so I stopped quickly. The symptoms usually are pain in one of my fingers, either slowly creeping in or like a needle suddenly jabbed in there.
> 
> When it was at its absolute worst, about 7 years ago, it had me jump up from the couch screaming in pain a few times. That was before I knew for sure what caused it. I eventually figured out it was posture related and as long as I manage to always sit up straight, I don't get the pain in my hands. I only get pain in my back, but that's a different issue. That means certain chairs and virtually all couches don't work for me anymore and I need to be mindfull of how I sit, which gets really exhausting and I had hoped lying down flat was a good way to rest the strained back, but the downsides outweigh the benefits for me as it seems.
> 
> ...


There are cervical traction devices that produce a result similar to what you are attempting with the handstand and pulling your head up, but in a progressive and measured manner. In any case, that is all good practice and you shouldn't stop. A good exercise is to have someone raise your head with both hands from behind, while you are sitting in front of them. You can do this progressively, increasing the time every couple of days.

About strength training for the neck. First, if you are feeling pain and numbness in the hands, you are already in a state where the nerves are being impacted by the herniation. In this situation, you *cannot* *train your neck directly*, so I'm really suspicious of the kind of training they gave you. Training with a herniation means training isometrically, that is, without ever taking the spine out of its neutral position, and I don't think you should give up on this.



MartinH. said:


> I had an MRI scan done some years ago and they found spinal disc protrusions, in case it matters.


Yes, these are the whole problem. To clear up the jargon, when the thick outer rim of the discs degenerates (anulus fibrosus), the inner soft material (nucleus pulposus) protrudes out (herniation) and starts interfering with the nerves (radiculopathy).


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## Tralen (Dec 13, 2021)

nonchai said:


> I started working horizontally ( programming aka coding not music ) almost two decades ago - initially and in part - still - because a broken coccyx made it uncomfortable to sit upright in an office chair for a long period of time.
> 
> But then - probably cos I'm not lets say "into exercise" - or for whatever reason I just found that more blood supply would go to my head when laying down and I just felt more "clear" and able to work.
> 
> ...


One thing I forgot to say to the OP:

If you have a broken coccyx, you* cannot be overweight*. The pain and discomfort you feel (and any ensuing inflammation) are always going to be proportional to the weight you are applying to the coccyx.


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## zigzag (Dec 13, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> I found the best thing to get some short-term relief is doing a handstand and trying to relax my neck while doing this, or gently pulling my head upwards with both hands while sitting.
> Do you think there's a way to sufficiently counter the damage from looking down and to the left, or do I need to learn to play without looking at the fretboard, or hold the guitar in an awkward position where I can see the fretboard without bending my neck much?


I was advised not to lift anything above shoulder level, so a handstand might not be the best idea. I have herniated cervical disc (C6-7 if I remember correctly) and bulging C5-6. 



MartinH. said:


> gently pulling my head upwards with both hands while sitting.



I do the same thing haha  Its easier, if you lie down on flat, not too soft surface. That way you don't need to counter the gravity. Also try to keep elbows close to the body and neck relaxed while you're pushing the head away with your hands.



MartinH. said:


> Do you think there's a way to sufficiently counter the damage from looking down and to the left, or do I need to learn to play without looking at the fretboard, or hold the guitar in an awkward position where I can see the fretboard without bending my neck much?


I try to avoid doing anything that worsens my condition. Maybe a mirror could help? 
(I'm not a guitar player)


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