# How do you organize of synth presets and recollect what they sound like?



## prasad_v (Feb 2, 2022)

What is your process for keeping track of your favorite synth sounds/presets? Do you use adjectives to categorize them? Do you limit yourself to a certain number of presets ? 
I sometimes use a preset, may be favorite it, but when I start to work on something new it feels like I just put a Midi/pattern region in and iterate through so many presets, trying to audit them all and search from scratch. Even if it results in something fresh each time, obviously this is not an efficient/scalable solution. What do you do?


----------



## charlieclouser (Feb 18, 2022)

I definitely use descriptive adjectives and category names to organize presets. Whenever a new product comes in the door that has a bunch of content I go through it ALL and immediately delete the stuff I don't want, organize what remains into categories, and rename pretty much everything.

Some of my descriptive terms for individual sounds would only make sense to me, like naming a certain category of hard synth blasts "Cubiks" because they remind me of the sound on the 808 State track "Cubik", etc. Like, sounds that remind me of that one great sound that I'll always remember.

My categories for sounds are a little less idiosyncratic, but still a little different from what factory libraries use. For instance, in lots of Omnisphere libraries they'll have a single category for "Arps" but I break that down into Arp-Basslines, Arp-Synths, Arp-Perc, Arp-Textures, Arp-Noize, etc. I do that because if I'm looking for some rhythmic noise pattern I don't want to scroll past a zillion 303 Acid Basslines and Stranger Things Synth Arp presets trying to find that one noise pattern. So I give all of those things their own categories.

I also always rename presets so that if, for some reason, the built-in categories and folders that organize them goes away or gets messed up, I can still categorize everything purely based on the file names. I also include a two-letter abbreviation that denotes the source of the preset, so I can separate the ones from each manufacturer and from the ones I've made. I try to keep the actual descriptive preset name fairly short, so if the original name from the developer was "A Dark Star Fades In The Distance" then I'll shorten it to "DarkStar".

My naming scheme is basically [category]-[source]-[descriptive name]. So I'll have patches named like this:

ARP BASS - TU - Firestarter
ARP NOIZ - CC - FreakBeat
ARP NOIZ - TU - FaceCram
ARP SYN - PS - StrangeThing
ARP SYN - TU - CheesyPluk
SCAPE - CC - WILDGRAINS
SCAPE - PS - GrainGrinder
SCAPE - TU - Tendrils
SYN BLAST - CC - CUBIK
SYN BLAST - PS - DarkBark
SYN BLAST - TU - ShortFart

Those two-letter abbreviations tell me who made the patch - CC = me (Charlie Clouser), PS = PulseSetter Sounds, TU = The Unfinished, etc. I don't keep a spreadsheet or text file or anything, I just make up an abbreviation the first time I keep some patches from a manufacturer and then I can remember it.

This way, even if all the patches were dumped into a single folder, without any of the plugin's built-in sorting, favoriting system, "star" markings, etc. then it still won't just be a disorganized list of zillions of items. All the presets will sort by category, then within each category they will sort by manufacturer, and finally by name. I prefer this because if I'm looking for a Synth Arp then I can see ALL of them right next to each other, instead of going into the PulseSetter folder and listening to those, then up and over to the The Unfinished folder and listening to those, etc.

I use this type of system for every stored patch and preset for synth plugins and even hardware synths if I can. Some folks like to keep a spreadsheet or text file or database to help organize things, but sooner or later you'll forget to keep it updated and then it all goes to shit. Same with the internal schemes that some plugins have, like a "star rating" system, proprietary in-app folders, etc.- sooner or later those all break down as well. Some plugins, like Omnisphere and U-He synths, use folders in the computer's file system which translate into on-screen folders in the plugin's UI - if that's the case then I'm okay with using them. But in general, the ONLY thing I trust is the computer's ability to keep files organized into folder and to sort them alphabetically. I'm even so careful (paranoid?) that I include the manufacturer abbreviation and category names in each preset's file name so that even if the folders get wrecked, as long as I have the files with their names intact, I can still sort and organize everything from scratch if I have to.

For orchestral sample libraries and other "ordinary" sounds like pianos or whatever, I do things a little differently. If it's a Kontakt library, I duplicate the original Instruments folder and rename the duplicates to conform to my naming scheme, which is [instrument type]-[articulation name]-[abbreviated developer name]. So I'll wind up with names like:

violin-TREMS-kh (that's a solo violin, tremolo articulation, from Kirk Hunter)
violin-TREMS-zg (that's a solo violin, tremolo articulation, from Zero Gravity)
violins-FLAUTANDO-cs (that's a violin section, flautando articulation, from CineSamples)
violins-FLAUTANDO-kh (that's a violin section, flautando articulation, from Kirk Hunter)
strings-STACCATO-ai (that's a full string section, staccato articulation, from Audio Imperia)
strings-STACCATO-cs (that's a full string section, staccato articulation, from CineSamples)
strings-STACCATO-ew (that's a full string section, staccato articulation, from East-West)

Since I have dozens of Violins Staccato instruments from different manufacturers, this naming scheme will let me put all of the instruments into a single Violins-Short folder and then all of the Staccato instruments will be right next to each other in the list, so I can use the previous+next buttons to quickly flip through them while a sequence is playing to audition how that sequence will sound with each different manufacturer's version of a Staccato patch.

I leave the original NKI files in the default location, but I also duplicate the Instruments folder that contains just the NKI files (not the samples), rename the duplicates, and then put those into a set of "master" folders that contain all of the NKI files from all my different libraries. That way I don't have to go down into the CineSamples folder, audition those, then navigate up and over to the Kirk Hunter folder to audition those, etc. (I also organize my EXS / Logic Sampler library the same way.)

I do use Kontakt's QuickLoad database to keep a "short list" of NKI files I like, sort of like a "best of the best" or "favorites" list. The only reason I trust the QL database is because on MacOS the QL folders are just normal MacOS file system folders that contain aliases / symlinks back to the original NKI files. Those aliases can be renamed differently to the original files they refer to, if you want to, but that might confuse me so I don't do that. But since the QL database can be accessed and dealt with right from the desktop, instead of only from inside Kontakt, this lets me make additions / changes to my QL database from the desktop, and those changes will be visible next time I'm inside Kontakt. So far it's worked great.

I also sometimes use the QL database to create a super-quickie folder for a handful of sounds that I'm using on a particular project, so that's sort of like a "favorites of my favorites" folder. That way I don't even have to go digging in the short list, I can just go to a single QL folder that only has a dozen or so patches in it.

If I want to "mark favorites" in Omnisphere / U-He synths / Logic Sampler, what I'll do is capitalize the descriptive pert of the file name. In the first example list above, that's why WILDGRAINS and CUBIK appear in all-caps. This lets me leave them where they belong in the list, but lets them stand out visually as being a favorite patch. If I want to mark favorites in my orchestral sounds lists, I'll capitalize the prefix, so those patch names will start with "VIOLINS" or "STRINGS" instead of "violins" or "strings". Again, it keeps the names and alphabetized sorting the same, but lets those patches stand out visually in a long list.

A little planning and organizing (okay, a LOT of planning and organizing) of my sounds, when I'm not under a deadline, really makes things easier when I'm scrambling to find the right sound in the heat of battle.


----------



## Mr Greg G (Feb 18, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Whenever a new product comes in the door that has a bunch of content I go through it ALL and immediately delete the stuff I don't want, organize what remains into categories, and rename pretty much everything.


Wow, I wonder many days you haven't slept doing that for all the Omnisphere presets + expansions!!


----------



## charlieclouser (Feb 18, 2022)

Mr Greg G said:


> Wow, I wonder many days you haven't slept doing that for all the Omnisphere presets + expansions!!


I can grind through a newly purchased Omnisphere library in anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour or so. I do it right after they come in the door and I don't put it off until later. I import the new library, open the STEAM folders on the desktop so I can see all the folders it contains, open Omnisphere in standalone mode, and just start auditioning presets. As I go, I ruthlessly delete each preset that isn't amazing, and my "keep rate" is between 5% and 30%.

On another thread I described how I reduce the footprint of imported Omnisphere libraries, but basically the process is:

• Import new library's ".omnisphere" file.

• Open Omnisphere standalone and open the STEAM folders on my desktop so both are visible side-by-side.

• Audition presets, and after each one I'll flip over to the desktop to delete any presets I don't like and rename the ones I'm keeping. All from the keyboard commands, no mousing around.

• Sometimes I'll blast through a dozen I want to delete and then just flip over to the desktop and delete all of those at once, so I have to mentally keep track of the first and last patches I want to delete, and then grab 'em all at once. Usually this is easier than it sounds, since the last one I wanted to keep has already been renamed, so I'm really just looking at the ones that haven't been renamed yet and deleting a bunch from that list.

• Once I'm done deleting and renaming patches, I use the "Publish Library" function in Omni to export a NEW ".omnipshere" file. This will contain ONLY the patches + multis I'm keeping, and ONLY the sample content that they depend on. Any sample content that is not needed by those patches I'm keeping will not be included in that new library export.

• Of course, sometimes I might want to keep some of the sample content, even if none of my "kept" patches depend on them. So if a library contains a bunch of intriguing sample content, I'll make a blank patch and use that to audition the raw sample content. Each time I come to a sample set that I want to keep, I'll save out that blank patch with a name that indicates it's just a container for a cool sample set as opposed to an actual usable preset. (Examples are visible in the screen shot below, as patches named like "INIT - PH - Noise 01 C3" which would be a dummy container for a cool sample set from a PlugHugger library called "Noise 01 C3".)

• After I've exported the cleaned + reduced version of the ".omnisphere" library, I delete the sub-folders inside my STEAM folder that the new library had created when it was first imported.

• Then I import the new, cleaned + reduced ".omnisphere" file I just created. Now my STEAM folder contains ONLY the reduced set of multis + patches + sample content that I just created.

One side effect of my system is that if I have multiple libraries from a single manufacturer, then I can combine them all into a single ".omnisphere" file - if I want to. Or, if I want to keep them separate I can do that as well - but I can't remember a single instance where I've done that. I basically lump everything from each manufacturer into a single file and then use my naming scheme to separate things out. 

To do that, once I've reduced the presets, but *before* doing the publish+erase+import, I drag the new shortlist of presets into the corresponding folders in the pre-existing preset folders belonging to the other libraries from that same publisher. Then I publish THAT, delete ALL of the content from both libraries, and re-import the newly published bank. That's how I combine multiple libraries into one.

I kind of have it down to a system, and I don't need much time to decide if a preset is going to be useful. I hammer through those banks so fast, just being ruthless about deleting anything I know I'd never use. If I spend more than an hour reducing a new Omni library, then that means it contained a LOT of useful stuff.

If I just kept all of the patches in all of the libraries I've bought, it would be completely unmanageable, and every time I wanted to use Omni I would have to spend hours scrolling past garbage patches that have no right to be in my library. So I'd rather do it once right at the start, delete the garbage, rename the gold, and never look back. Even with just the normal factory content it's waaayyy too much to scroll through when I'm working. So I cleaned that as well, but I made a "cleaned duplicate" of the factory content, and I leave the original stuff in place since it gets reinstalled anyway whenever an update comes out.

Plus, once I'm done, I've actually listened to every single patch, and I've already decided if it's any good, what category it belongs in, and probably given it a shorter and more descriptive name. Then I'll be more likely to remember why I kept it in the first place! Like I said, my keep rate is very low - 5% to 30% depending. So the resulting cleaned + reduced libraries are quite manageable.

Because of the way Omni works, even though each manufacturer winds up having its own sub-folders inside the STEAM folder, inside Omni's browser I can view all SYN - ARP patches from ALL manufacturers in a single list. Or, if I want to, I can view JUST the contents of one manufacturer's libraries. So it's a little different from some other synths but this is actually better in the long run.

Here's a pic of what it looks like when I'm grinding on an Omni library, with Omni standalone open beside the STEAM folders on my desktop:


----------



## Mr Greg G (Feb 18, 2022)

Any specific reason you use the built in preset rating in Omni? 
I also used to browse through presets and delete them or rating them as "1" for those I didn't like but after some time I noticed that some of the presets I have rated "1" were actually great for a specific piece I was working on. Since you're deleting everything, I guess this never happened to you?


----------



## charlieclouser (Feb 18, 2022)

Mr Greg G said:


> Any specific reason you use the built in preset rating in Omni?
> I also used to browse through presets and delete them or rating them as "1" for those I didn't like but after some time I noticed that some of the presets I have rated "1" were actually great for a specific piece I was working on. Since you're deleting everything, I guess this never happened to you?


I do NOT use the built-in preset rating in Omni, mainly because I'm convinced that as soon as I decide to rely upon it, I'll do something that completely wipes all of my saved ratings. Like, what if I want to clean and organize my library by exporting and re-importing ".omnisphere" files, or send some patches to someone else for them to tweak and send them back to me... stuff like that. So to avoid heartbreak later I just stay away from it. Plus my library is so trimmed down that I'd wind up giving every patch the highest rating! 

So essentially, my cleaning + reducing process is like going through and rating all the presets, and then deleting everything except the five-star ones. At this point, after 35+ years of scrolling and organizing presets and samples for every platform under the sun, I don't need to second-guess my hot takes on whether to delete a preset or not. Even though I'm auditioning out of context, without a cue looping in the background, I can pretty much tell if a sound is one I'm likely to use or not, or whether it might be a good starting point for further tweaking, etc. I reject piles of sounds just because they remind me of the bad old days of workstation ROMpler "cinematic pad" or "ethnic flute pad" sounds or whatever. Cheese goes straight in the bin.

Does that mean that I've probably deleted presets that might have been useful? Sure I have. But it's not like those "maybe" patches that wound up in the trash are going to make or break a cue or score. There's plenty more where they came from....

Sometimes I do use Omni's ability to create "project" folder (I forget the actual terminology) to create a sort of temporary "favorites of favorites" stash point just for a specific project in progress, similar to how I do that using Kontakt's QL database as described above.


----------



## Living Fossil (Feb 18, 2022)

Mr Greg G said:


> I also used to browse through presets and delete them or rating them as "1" for those I didn't like but after some time I noticed that some of the presets I have rated "1" were actually great for a specific piece I was working on.


I never understood (and still don't understand) the sense of a rating system for sounds.
Either a sound is the right one in a specific context, or it is not.
Often, a sound that is perfect in context is quite boring, unspectacular or even ugly on its own.
And the behaviour in a context can be extremely complex – specially when masking plays a role.

What i really love on the other hand is the colour scheme that u-He offers to mark presets.
I have a very strict concept of colouring presets (that i think could be interesting) without thinking about any rational criterium for the choice of colour. 
So, it's an absolutely intuitive and emotional process of assigning a colour.
This method is absolutely chaotic, i admit, but it works perfectly for me.

But giving ratings seems absurd to me, and the more i think about that concept the more it gets absurd.
(What "rating" would i give to the choir sound in the Genesis song "Mama"? It's a perfect sound, but is it a "good" sound??


----------



## charlieclouser (Feb 18, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> What "rating" would i give to the choir sound in the Genesis song "Mama"? It's a perfect sound, but is it a "good" sound??


I'd rate that sound a "keep"!

I'm continually reassured by the fact that even when I'm auditioning sounds rapid-fire, just playing a couple of notes and then hitting the "next" button, I can still hear a "good" sound even in the middle of an absolute pile of garbage. I keep plenty of wimpy, thin, and weak sounds - because they have a character that jumps out of the speakers at me.

I have kept plenty of sample sets of terrible string machines, Farfisa type organs, etc. because even though they're "lame" sounds, they're a *great version of a lame sound*. That choir sound in "Mama" is exactly that - a great version of a lame sound! Being able to tell a good version of a bad sound from a just plain bad sound is a key skill that's taken me decades to refine, and that skill builds with each pile of horrible sounds, with three gems lurking within, that I go through.

That's why I still buy tons of libraries and don't get upset if I only keep 5% of their sounds, and I still look forward to the process of auditioning and culling these massive incoming sound sets. That process helps build that skill and train my ears.

And of course it's a pleasure to scroll through a well-manicured sound set after I'm done reducing it. Instead of thinking, "This sound is bad, that one is good" my mind can focus on "This sound is not quite right for this piece of music, that sound is a better choice." It becomes a more narrow and focused thought process, and keeps my mind on the piece of music at hand. Hard to explain, but it's the only way I can work effectively.


----------



## dgburns (Feb 18, 2022)

@charlieclouser I am practicing the art of being brief, call it Audio Haiku.

A sound has value when it is needed.
Not before, and not after.
Quantity has no value.
Relevancy is all that matters.

Now Ima gonna go grab a Sapporo.


----------



## anp27 (Feb 18, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> SYN BLAST - TU - ShortFart


Amazing post as always @charlieclouser, just wondering which score of yours showcases this particular patch? 😂


----------



## Fidelity (Feb 18, 2022)

Memory? What's that? Where am I? What time is it?

I let Komplete Kontrol do most of this for me. Automate NKS import from sound banks with macros that copy + paste names from the original patches and go through them one category at a time with AHK on windows, or "Repeater" on OSX despite the negative reviews (using intel / mojave tho) - Automator is just a nightmare to me.


----------



## charlieclouser (Feb 18, 2022)

anp27 said:


> Amazing post as always @charlieclouser, just wondering which score of yours showcases this particular patch? 😂


Hahaha the only place that patch could ever be used would be on a South Park episode! 

(actually it's just a dummy example, I checked - there is no patch called ShortFart in my library, thank goodness!)


----------



## Pat Maddox (Feb 19, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Even with just the normal factory content it's waaayyy too much to scroll through when I'm working. So I cleaned that as well, but I made a "cleaned duplicate" of the factory content, and I leave the original stuff in place since it gets reinstalled anyway whenever an update comes out.


Can you describe how you do that? I am curious to know how to have a cleaned version of the factory library. Also I would like to keep the sound sources, even if I’m not keeping a patch that uses a particular sound source.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Feb 19, 2022)

Pat Maddox said:


> Can you describe how you do that? I am curious to know how to have a cleaned version of the factory library. Also I would like to keep the sound sources, even if I’m not keeping a patch that uses a particular sound source.



I believe you just need to find where the installed versions of the libraries are. Your edited version of factory libraries could go in with the 3rd party soundsets.


----------



## Mr Greg G (Feb 19, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> I do NOT use the built-in preset rating in Omni


Yes sorry there was a "not" missing in my sentence. I typed too quickly, I was about to leave and head to traffic jams to go see a show (Hooverphonic) for the first time in ... phew.. way too long!


charlieclouser said:


> Does that mean that I've probably deleted presets that might have been useful? Sure I have. But it's not like those "maybe" patches that wound up in the trash are going to make or break a cue or score. There's plenty more where they came from....


Well, I think you're right. Removing uninspiring presets allows one's creativity to not get cluttered by these presets. It may feel time consuming at the beginning but in the end it's a time saver. I will probably do the same from now on. Thanks for your detailed input Charlie, very interesting.


----------



## charlieclouser (Feb 19, 2022)

Pat Maddox said:


> Can you describe how you do that? I am curious to know how to have a cleaned version of the factory library. Also I would like to keep the sound sources, even if I’m not keeping a patch that uses a particular sound source.


To clean and reduce the factory content I just made a set of folders inside the STEAM folder to hold all of my favorites, then I followed the same procedure outlined above - I auditioned each one and as I found the ones I liked I option-dragged them from their original location to one of the new folders, and renamed the duplicate. I just opened two windows on the desktop, one showing the factory patches folders inside the STEAM folder, and another showing my new renamed folders, which are also inside the STEAM folder but it's a little easier to option-drag from one window to another than from one folder at the top of a window to another folder farther down that same window.

If you make some tweaks to the factory presets and then save them without giving them a new name, when an update is installed there is the possibility that your edited versions will be replaced by a new version from the update. So I just consider the factory set as if it were a read-only volume, and any time I want to edit a preset's settings I only do that to a renamed copy of the preset that's been saved to a new, non-factory folder.

I did not attempt to reduce the factory sample content set, since I knew it would only get re-installed with some update. But I also did not have to worry about those files, because they will always be there in the factory location.

I also did not have to do the export-erase-reimport process, whose main function is to reduce the footprint of a library by eliminating unwanted sample content.

So cleaning the factory content was actually the same as just saving the presets I liked to a new location and renaming them. But I do it from the desktop because for me that's a little quicker than doing a "Save Preset As..." from within Omni.

However because there are sooooo many factory presets it did take longer than going through some third-party libraries, but I did that waaayyy back when I first got Omni, before I realized what a chore it would be. Enthusiasm for a shiny new toy and all....


----------



## Fidelity (Feb 19, 2022)

dgburns said:


> @charlieclouser I am practicing the art of being brief, call it Audio Haiku.
> 
> A sound has value when it is needed.
> Not before, and not after.
> ...


So..."why use many note when few do trick"?


----------



## dgburns (Feb 20, 2022)

Fidelity said:


> So..."why use many note when few do trick"?


Ok, so as Haiku :

A sound discovered,
Each single note played,
Reveals an endless universe

-edit-

My first one was not in the correct format, lol


----------



## Hywel (Feb 21, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> ...Sometimes I do use Omni's ability to create "project" folder (I forget the actual terminology) to create a sort of temporary "favorites of favorites" stash point just for a specific project in progress...


This is what I have been doing recently when I have needed an omnisphere patch for a project
1. Select the broad category in the browser eg synth bass or brass pad
2. Use the search function within that category for keywords like light, heavy, pulse etc, etc until I get a workable size of list that I can audition.
3. Go through the resulting list using the "mark" function within omnisphere to get a "shortlist"
4. Save all the "marked" presets to an omnisphere "project" named the same as the project I am working on so that I can refine which of the shortlisted sounds I can use or modify.
To me this has two major benefits...
A. If at a later stage I need a similar type of preset to one I used previously, I can usually remember which project of mine had that type of sound - like the Mama example above.
B. My shortlists will perhaps inevitably exclude some golden patches that don't feature in my search but hey - life's just too short and this process doesn't take too long.

My hat goes off to you Charlie for your dedication to curating your omnisphere library and tailoring it to your specific needs.


----------



## charlieclouser (Feb 21, 2022)

Hywel said:


> This is what I have been doing recently when I have needed an omnisphere patch for a project
> 1. Select the broad category in the browser eg synth bass or brass pad
> 2. Use the search function within that category for keywords like light, heavy, pulse etc, etc until I get a workable size of list that I can audition.
> 3. Go through the resulting list using the "mark" function within omnisphere to get a "shortlist"
> ...


I've also started doing what you're doing, using the "Project" function in Omni to store a short list of presets I found while browsing for a particular project. Mainly because as I'm browsing I'll find a bunch of stuff that isn't what I'm looking for at the moment, but I'll want to come back to them in a few hours when I'm done with the track at hand. So that Project feature is a great tool for that.


----------



## Pier (Feb 21, 2022)

Charlie, your approach seems fascinating. Like a Samurai with no doubts that just acts.

Do you always trust your initial decision and never consider going back? And have you ever gone back to revisit a library and found sounds that you like now but had initially dismissed? Or maybe sounds you selected but then don't like that much?

My perception of stuff (anything from synths, movies, books, food, etc) changes constantly. I like to think it's because my taste/perception gets better, but I'm not always sure about that. Sometimes I dismiss a book and then a couple of months/years later I revisit it and see how good it is. It's just that I wasn't ready for it yet.


----------



## mscp (Feb 21, 2022)

prasad_v said:


> What is your process for keeping track of your favorite synth sounds/presets? Do you use adjectives to categorize them? Do you limit yourself to a certain number of presets ?
> I sometimes use a preset, may be favorite it, but when I start to work on something new it feels like I just put a Midi/pattern region in and iterate through so many presets, trying to audit them all and search from scratch. Even if it results in something fresh each time, obviously this is not an efficient/scalable solution. What do you do?


By mood/theme for the sake of simplicity.


----------



## charlieclouser (Jul 15, 2022)

Pier said:


> Charlie, your approach seems fascinating. Like a Samurai with no doubts that just acts.
> 
> Do you always trust your initial decision and never consider going back? And have you ever gone back to revisit a library and found sounds that you like now but had initially dismissed? Or maybe sounds you selected but then don't like that much?
> 
> My perception of stuff (anything from synths, movies, books, food, etc) changes constantly. I like to think it's because my taste/perception gets better, but I'm not always sure about that. Sometimes I dismiss a book and then a couple of months/years later I revisit it and see how good it is. It's just that I wasn't ready for it yet.


I always trust my initial decision. That is the essence of curation. That is one thing I've always been good at - forming an opinion quickly and without regret or second-guessing. I can hear a sound or a song once and decide if I think it is awesome or if it sucks balls. 

Of course, when it comes to sounds, that decision is tempered by experience - if I think Juno-106 pads suck and therefore didn't buy the synth when it was brand-new, but then later find them useful when playing one at an outside studio, then maybe I update my preferences. (But this example actually never happened. I think the Juno-106 is weak sauce and although I got one in a trade at one point it never made it onto a track and I swapped it for an MS-50 I think.) 

I still like all the stuff I liked when I was young: Boston's first album, AC/DC, 1970 Plymouth 'Cuda convertibles... but things get added as they appear: My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts, Simple Minds "Sons And Fascination", 2006 Dodge Magnum SRT-8, etc. Those new things don't replace old things, and they don't make me like the old things any less.

Like, I don't know how to make music like AC/DC, I don't want to know how, and I would never need to know how to do that - but I can tell that the music is good in more ways than it needs to be.

In terms of sounds, early on it was kicks and snares from Zeppelin, then add to that the drums from The Power Station's "Some Like It Hot" and Bowie's "Let's Dance", etc. They all stack up in my preferences file. That's why I need such big hard drives!

This past couple of weeks I've been transferring tons of DAT tapes into the computer, and I found complete versions of sample libraries that I had previously culled ruthlessly, like Zero-G DataFile 1+2, X-Static Goldmine, etc. Stuff from v1 of the sample CD era. I had reduced these collections massively, discarding about 80-90% of the sounds, but when I found the complete DAT tapes I transferred them into the computer, did a "strip silence", re-evaluated what to keep, and then compared my 2020 picks to my 1995 picks. Almost identical. Like, scary accurate. 

So I guess I am lucky that my tastes don't really change. They might expand, but still... suck is suck regardless of decade.


----------



## jbuhler (Jul 15, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> I always trust my initial decision. That is the essence of curation. That is one thing I've always been good at - forming an opinion quickly and without regret or second-guessing. I can hear a sound or a song once and decide if I think it is awesome or if it sucks balls.
> 
> Of course, when it comes to sounds, that decision is tempered by experience - if I think Juno-106 pads suck and therefore didn't buy the synth when it was brand-new, but then later find them useful when playing one at an outside studio, then maybe I update my preferences. (But this example actually never happened. I think the Juno-106 is weak sauce and although I got one in a trade at one point it never made it onto a track and I swapped it for an MS-50 I think.)
> 
> ...


I find a difference between this sound sucks and this sound is not right for my music. Am I correct in presuming that you do a lot of culling of sounds that you don’t think suck outright so much as you just know they will never find a place in your music? Or is there no real difference to you between those categories?


----------



## charlieclouser (Jul 15, 2022)

jbuhler said:


> I find a difference between this sound sucks and this sound is not right for my music. Am I correct in presuming that you do a lot of culling of sounds that you don’t think suck outright so much as you just know they will never find a place in your music? Or is there no real difference to you between those categories?


Well, I do keep some sounds that are "a great version of a lame sound", like really characterful samples of an Arp Solina string ensemble keyboard for instance. And from working on tv series that have a wide range of needs and some "wild card" cues that are out of character, you never know what you're going to need. That's why I have stuff like "Austin Powers / Carnaby Street 1964" drum loops, or wah-wah guitar chicka-chicka loops, etc. Stuff that I might only need once in a decade, but only for a few seconds, and would take half an hour to make from scratch or 15 seconds to find the loop, and they're really only worth 15 seconds of my time....

When I needed to come up with tons of high-energy screwball casino caper jams for the series "Las Vegas", I could fire up Ableton and very quickly grab some drum loops from the "Oh Behave!" folder and some wacky bongo solos from the "Barney Rubble" folder, throw down a bass part using Trilogy acoustic bass, some Wurlitzer chords from Logic's Vintage Electric Piano, some zany organ stabs from Logic's B-3 emulation, and drop a few horn hits with ping-pong delay and... DONE. Three minutes of zany screwball caper music in the can. Half an hour, tops.

So I do keep things that are not right for my style of music... as long as they're a great version of whatever they are.

But to me, soooooo many sounds are just plain NOT GOOD. Weak, lame, half-assed, under-nourished.... like they're going to need so much help, and it's going to be such a struggle to make them work... and at this point I can kind of tell. But so could anyone else (I would hope). Plus, if the only sounds you have in the browser are all fantastic, with no suckage to be found, then life gets a little easier, but it's still a chore sometimes to get to the bottom of the list even after that list has been ruthlessly shortened.

So I guess there's not really that much difference between those categories you mentioned.

Good = I like it, even if I might not know whether / when I'll ever use it. Keep it around just in case.

Bad = I think it's lame / I don't like it / even if I had to use it I would want a better version or would rather hear silence.


----------



## ZeroZero (Dec 9, 2022)

dgburns said:


> @charlieclouser I am practicing the art of being brief, call it Audio Haiku.
> 
> A sound has value when it is needed.
> Not before, and not after.
> ...


A sound has value ONLY if you can find it! That is why we categorise


----------



## ZeroZero (Dec 9, 2022)

Peoples:

I have a different approach to all this, that I am developing. I will link the thread below. Appreciate your comments. After some discussion of usibng Excel, or a database, I finally decided to work this way

1] A Master Audition Template with ALL my sounds. Categorized, folderised, subfolderised, according to score order and more. Using Keyswitched masters (with expression maps)
2] Copying this folder then culling it and making "Sub-Master Audition Templates" . For example I am creating one for Aleotoric Orchestral sounds (only) , Another perhaps for only legato strings. Etc etc. These folders are easy to create after creating the main Master Audition Template. It's mostly a matter of deletion.

Note: When I have a new library, I first create a template with "Only [orchestra name]" in it. I then use Cubase's import Tracks from project, to import these tracks into my Master Audition Template, then I distribute these sounds into their relevent categories in the master. That way I awlays have access to all my sounds.

I use a similar strict naming system to above. I don't cull sounds because I agree that a naff sound in one context can be great (or even funny) in another context.
I think orchestral and "real" instrument sounds need a different categorisation method than synths. Orchestral instruments have pretty familar aerticulation categories.
Basically, my view is that it's a fools errand to try to categorise every synth sound. I have over a hundred synths and Omnisphere alone has 13.8 gazbillion sounds - one for every year since creation began.

Therefore, I shall be creating a Sub-Master Template for Favorite synth sounds - cross platform across all synths, with no intention to go through every sound, more to keep "found" sounds as i come across great patches not for use in my present moment. I might simply use track presets or archives for this task, then perhaps import these presets into a single Template.

For a full discussion of the in's and outs of all the issues, here is my (our) thread here:






How to effectively organise notes about libraries and compositions? Help me clarify my thoughts?


Like many here, I have a large library of sounds. I have decided I want to try categorizing the sounds, making personal notes as I go. I already have a template with the sounds categorised in score order and beyond. Even this is not enough as I have used keyswitched instruments for each...




vi-control.net





Z


----------

