# Agents for representation



## Allen Constantine (Feb 19, 2019)

Hi guys, 

Does anyone know a good agent for representation which you might recommend? 
I'm constantly searching for agencies and from time to time it works pretty well, scoring commercials and shorts, but I was looking for an agent that could bring some constant work, of course, by taking it's share percentage out of the deals he gets. 

Any tips, suggestions?


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## Beluga (Feb 19, 2019)

While in any other domain agents will happily look at the quality of your work and, if you are good, will - OFFER - work opportunities to you, put you in the pitching process, introduce you to new clients, this, as well, is different in the music business. In the music business, it's you who finds the work for your agent. Meaning, and this has been stated many times and it's also my experience, once you have too much work on your hands and are very much in demand, you can get an agent to take a percentage of your agreements, but not before. This may still take your career to the next level, but in the meantime, you have to do all the work. What fascinates me when reading a certain group with a certain agent in it, is that so many musicians feel this is the most natural thing in the world while agents in other domains absolutely find work for you, it's even the very definition of an agent to my understanding.
There may be other experiences and maybe I'm wrong, but this seems to be the general consensus.
Every successful composer seems to have an agent and I believe they were quite successful before they hook up with them. I really do wonder about Hans Zimmer, though. Does he have an agent? Is he such a business monster that can handle all this by himself?


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## erica-grace (Feb 19, 2019)

My understanding is that you don't find agents - they find you.

My understanding is also that in order to get an agent worth their weight, you need to have a decent resume.


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## BenG (Feb 19, 2019)

As others have mentioned, you'll need an agent when you don't need an agent anymore... Basically, they'll look to represent you once you start making it worth their while and bringing in serious paychecks. That said, music agents/lawyers can be great when it comes to negotiating big contracts, reviewing agreements, advice, etc. 

The Gorfaine/Schwartz Agency seems to be a great place for composers of different levels/styles and have a bunch of well-known clients as well.


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 21, 2019)

erica-grace said:


> My understanding is that you don't find agents - they find you.
> 
> My understanding is also that in order to get an agent worth their weight, you need to have a decent resume.



That would make sense, they want to make sure you are a good asset for them, like buying stocks, they'd feel more comfortable signing someone who is already successful and as BenG said, probably don't really need an agent. However, this is not a rule, maybe an agent will simply appreciate your talent and see the potential, so keep at it.


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## dgburns (Feb 21, 2019)

All IMHO and in my travels-

Agents call their composer roster ‘clients’. (and yes, the A listers have Agents)

Agents with a busy roster are street smart, intelligent, have an ear for talent and know what it takes to sell a composer. But they are also constantly getting pummelled by their composers for work. It’s a strange relationship in that the Agent is really only interested in those ‘clients’ that are active.

Some agents, like Richard Kraft, are scary innovative. They spend their time building relationships both to those who need score, and those who do it. Richard, Laura or even Vasi would be my choices if I went for an Agent. Maybe Vasi first. 

I think the best and most productive approach is to view an Agent as facilitator. Not a boss, you’re the boss. So as a boss, the client, make yourself marketable-whatever that means.

Agents do a good job of being bad cop to your good cop. They can go into a negociation on your behalf. Trust me, it’s better when the Agent is the hard line, not you. It’s not only tough askng for what you think you’re worth, it’s difficult to keep the relationship positive once you’ve gone through a hard negociation and then need to do the work. Hard discussions are better left to a third party...enter the Agent.

Agents are instrumental in collecting and billing the work and then pay you, minus their fee. You concentrate on the work. They also help when you need players and orchestra, which is alot of work and they take more of a fee for it.

I’ve never met an Agent I truly liked as a person, yet. It’s because the ‘clients’ are just a means to an end for them, and I take that too personally. You are either a money making asset, or dead weight. Nothing in between. More often then not, they are skeptical, have little interest in you as there is a glut of composers out there. Even with a track history and awards up the wazoo, it means nothing. Do you have work? And not just work, but if it’s television, do you have a line on a few hundred episodes? If not, they won’t be too interested. It’s based on the what’s in it for them. One indie film? At 12 percent of 5k, not worth the paper the contract is signed on. Nor their time.

What matters most is the relationships you develop, like directors, producers, and people who want you to work for them.

Agents are like bloodhounds, if they smell money...

Some days I really hate Agents. And no I don’t have one. But I have in the past. I can read contracts pretty well. I can bill, and I can talk english (really, lol), so I can usually figure out where a producer is headed and what they want. Producers are MY clients, I never trusted anyone else to act on my behalf to represent me better then I can myself. I’ve made a shit ton of mistakes, some I wish I could take back. I’ve signed bad contracts (eveyone should do this to learn), and usually I do more work then I’m asked to or paid for.

My signature on any contract is MINE, and my seal of intent. I take that seriously.

my two cents for the day (take with a grain of salt)


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 21, 2019)

One think you might want to think about is the commitment you make once you signed with an agent. The agent takes a cut of all your professional revenus, so you could find yourself in a scenario where he got you 3 jobs during the year while you managed to get 12 jobs through your personal contacts, you still have to give the agent his cut of your 12 jobs despite he did nothing for that. This is a bit extreme as an example, but just so you are aware of this.


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## JohnG (Feb 21, 2019)

dgburns said:


> I never trusted anyone else to act on my behalf to represent me better then I can myself.



I don't doubt what you write. That said, you probably would agree that, sometimes, if things get frustrating or sideways, even a representative who's semi-inept is better as a buffer.

*Getting an Agent*

Really though, the general sentiment many have expressed about getting an agent is accurate. Unless you are about to commence:

1. a main-line (network or Netflix or something else with a big name) TV series; or

2. are about to score a (studio) feature; or

3. a big-budget game...

...you don't need an agent and an agent can't really do much for you.

*Being There*

When an agent puts you out there, he's risking _his_ reputation. Why would he do that?

As painful as it is to take on board, many excellent composers simply can't "get there" on a personal level, a sales level. It's a weird combination of cooperation and opinion and confidence-inspiring behaviour.

Very often it's that magic "first" project we all need, but, to be blunt, "first" in this context means: "someone spent millions of dollars on some movie/game/series, then trusted you, and then _you successfully scored it_." 

Big budget situations are merciless. If you need 8 hours' sleep, you have a substance or emotional or other health deficit, or you can't work out how to navigate sometimes-serious problems, translate producer-speak into a positive response, and cope with unexpected, sometimes unwelcome behaviour from colleagues, it is really daunting.

They're your clients, but you're supposed to be the musical expert, with all that that implies. Yes, they are paying; yes, they may have worked on the project for years; yes, they may want you to ape some previous successful project. How and when to you say, "no?" How do you win and maintain trust with a team that doesn't watch you work and whom you may know only slightly? And you may have four weeks to write an ocean of music to meet a release date that can't and won't budge for you to find your muse.

I guess that package can be learned to some extent, but it can take years and many simply don't / can't learn it. Agents know that. That's why they want you when you've proven you can _get_ the job and _keep_ the job -- and write good music too.


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## dgburns (Feb 21, 2019)

Well written @JohnG once again


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## charlieclouser (Feb 22, 2019)

One aspect of the agent>producer relationship that might not be obvious is that it's a little "creepy" and/or off-putting for the people who will actually be making the decisions (both who to hire as well as creative decisions down the road) to actually talk to a composer before they've decided who to go with - besides the inevitable first meeting / interview of course.

Scenario #1: You're the seasoned film/tv producer and somehow you've been cornered into talking to an actual composer before you've made your short list and set up meetings with your top three candidates or whatever. Maybe your kids play soccer with their kids, maybe they've weaseled their way into a DGA event, maybe they stalked you at the grocery store. You've got something he/she wants very much - a gig. The chances that such an encounter is going to be a positive experience for both of you is... slim. But if the producer is talking to an agent, they can speak bluntly about the gig, their impression of the composer, what they heard on the composer's reel, etc. - and the agent can speak (a little less) bluntly about these issues, and counter them with a casual air, and at no point is either party going to risk poisoning the well of future creative collaborations. The producer might say, "I'm hearing lots of good stuff on that reel, but how is he on brutal schedules? Is he some kind of introverted cave-dweller, or can he make nice to a room full of junior producers who haven't figured out what they want?" - and the agent can answer frankly, and whatever they say will be received differently than if those answers were coming from the actual composer, who would always be perceived as trying to "sell themselves" no matter if they're speaking truth or frantically flinging bull-pucky.

Scenario #2: You're the director whose passion project is finally happening, after you've had the script under your pillow for a decade. It's precious to you in a way that nobody else will ever be able to understand. You're searching for a composer who's a kindred spirit, someone who "gets it". If you wind up cornered at your kid's soccer game by a composer, you're both going to be making verbal love to the concept, usually in a way that has little resemblance to what the actual working relationship might be. It's love at first sight! I think I've found "the one"! But when you actually get to working it's like finding out that your new love leaves wet towels on the bed and squeezes the toothpaste from the bottom of the tube. An agent inserted in the middle of this relationship right at the beginning can answer the question, "Does he leave wet towels on the bed?" with "He would never do such a thing!" and promptly get you on the phone and tell you, "Whatever you do, don't leave wet towels on the bed or you'll screw up this whole thing!". This avoids poisoning the composer-director relationship, which is even more precious and fragile than the composer-producer relationship. The agent can get in between any moments of doubt, so that the director doesn't have to directly express to you every one of their massive doubts about whether you're the right choice, both on creative or logistic issues. This can help preserve that "love's first flowering" feeling in the relationship between the director and the composer, and keep everything lovey-dovey when talking about the creative side of the project.

In terms of the "liaison" or "go-between" aspect of having an agent, I've only had a couple of instances where my agents have had to get involved after a project has started, but it was always because the people on the other side of the table didn't want to say what they really felt for fear of bruising me and ruining any chance of a happy, loving marriage. It's like I'm the lazy husband to whom they're afraid to say, "Have you gained weight?" - but it's somehow easier to say to my agents, "He's getting fat. Tell him to hit the gym, like... NOW." and that won't instantly cause some wound that can never heal. The agent might translate that into, "Those guys think you're getting fat... crazy, right? Yeah, I know, they're insane. But it is what it is. You just gotta hit the gym. Do it for you, do it for me, just don't think that you're doing it for them otherwise it will piss you off. But it's gotta be done. Can I tell them you'll do it?"

Like, if your wife tells you that you look a bit chubby you might think she's got divorce papers under her pillow or Tinder on her phone, but your best friends will not hesitate to say, "Hey, Dale Gribble! What's with the paunch, fat-ass? Better get on that grind, son. Come over my place on Saturday and I'll show you how to lift without pulling a muscle in your old lame ass." (Well, my friends talk to me like that anyway...)

Not like I need that kind of soft-pedaling though - I'm fine with being shot in the face repeatedly. But the producers/directors don't know that - not all composers / creatives can take a punch, and it can easily backfire and poison the well. It can take a while to get to the point in that relationship where they really, truly believe that they're not ruining the marriage by calling you fat.


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## Pablocrespo (Feb 22, 2019)

Charlie, golden as usual


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## JohnG (Feb 22, 2019)

Pablocrespo said:


> Charlie, golden as usual



yes indeedy


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 22, 2019)

Great insight.

BTW Allen, I've been listening to your music on your website, really enjoyed your style and sound. I'll keep you in mind if ever something comes up.


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## vgamer1982 (Feb 22, 2019)

Been with a number of the major agencies.

If you have to ask about how to get on their roster, you're unlikely to have what they're looking for at this point. But the good news is, they wouldn't do jack sh*t for you anyhow, so don't worry about it, nothing will change; you still have to find the work yourself even when you're on the roster.

The best you get as one of the lower down clients is put into shotgun pitches where the very few jobs that genuinely are "open" and where the filmmakers really don't know who to go after - or gigs where they want demos - but then you're in a pool with forty or fifty other people. Seriously. Most of those demos you won't even get a thank you. Quite a number I sent in never even got listened to in the early days. For major studio gigs. They were overwhelmed with submissions from the bigger agencies. I once saw the box one agency sent a director in the CD days. It was a large fedex box with literally 150-200 CD's in it.

Most of the time you won't hear from them and it'll be hard to get them on the phone. It's pretty frustrating.

It will make little to no difference to your career until you're at a point where you really don't need them per se and then they do EVERYTHING to keep those clients happy. Everybody else can take a hike, basically.

Never heard _anybody_ say - honestly - that they loved, loved, loved their agent, or that they were the main reason they were working, and I've seen them do easily as much damage to their client's careers as they do good. Heard A-listers bitch and moan. In many parts of the industry they are somewhat ridiculed. A lot of network producers can't stand them in the TV world, for example. Ignore the schmoozing. Composer agents are like D-list in terms of power in the film industry. Actor and director agencies are the only really powerful agencies, by and large.

And their job is to get ONE of their clients on the job, not you specifically. They're also some of the best paid people who do the least work.....especially on gigs you bring in. They're moving to commissioning package budgets and walking off with a percentage of the entire music budget...they aren't lawyers, they can't really advise on contracts (not legally allowed to!). They sometimes make 50k or more for being on a couple of phone calls that really nobody wanted them on in the first place.

They rarely negotiate fees that far upward because most jobs are presented as "we have X"...there are no magic money trees, especially in the kind of films or projects you start out with. In truth, there's little to no negotiation on any of this stuff. I've also known of situations where they've been the first to throw their own clients under the buss when something went wrong. When everything's going right...nobody cares about them. No director ever hired a composer they didn't want to, because of the agent doing a great sales job.

Really, they're something you should worry very little about until such time as they beat your door down.


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## charlieclouser (Feb 23, 2019)

vgamer1982 said:


> Never heard _anybody_ say - honestly - that they loved, loved, loved their agent, or that they were the main reason they were working,



From one point of view, most of what you say in your post is true. Few would dispute that.

But there's a first time for everything - I love my agents.


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## dgburns (Feb 23, 2019)

@charlieclouser @JohnG @vgamer1982 

pass me another beer fellas, I’m eating all the chips on the table and I think I need to order some munchies.


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