# Underwater Wonderscapes - Live Recording feat. Budapest Scoring



## FredericBernard (Apr 16, 2021)

Hey folks,

Within the quarantine I found the time to work-out on a new piece for live orchestra (based on an piano solo piece of mine), which we recorded in Budapest.




If you should be interested in the printed score let me know, so I'll drop it in this thread.

Feedback (as always) much obliged.

Rock on,
-Frederic

EDIT: here's the printed score, which I'll keep for free here, for a few weeks: https://fredericbernardmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Underwater-Wonderscapes-v8.2.1-Final-Full-Score.pdf


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## reborn579 (Apr 16, 2021)

some really beautiful themes here! i really love the strings in this piece: very dramatic and quite original. and the pizzicato bass line does make the song feel like it's 'swimming', you know?


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## Gil (Apr 17, 2021)

FredericBernard said:


> If you should be interested in the printed score let me know, so I'll drop it in this thread.


Hello @FredericBernard,
Congrats, great piece! And great sounding!

First, a request: it would be very great if you can share the score please!

Then...a few questions if you don't mind 😊
It seems the orchestra involved is the Budapest Scoring Orchestra:
- How much did it cost (with and without video)?
- How was the mixing process (with metronome studios)? What was the price?
- Did you add percussion afterwards (Glock, Cymbals, Tubular bells)?
- What is the composition of the orchestra (I would say 3220-4031-timp-str)? Especially for the strings (I didn't notice any double basses...)?

Congrats again for your piece and thank you for your answer!
Regards,
Gil.

PS: I dare to say again here how great is your tutorial on legato: I hope that some others will follow 😇


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## patrick76 (Apr 17, 2021)

This is sooooo good. I hope to hear your work more in films. Great stuff! I would love to see the printed score as well. Thanks


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## FredericBernard (Apr 17, 2021)

@Gil and @patrick76 I am glad you enjoy the score that much!

I am more then glad to address your questions directly:

*- How much did it cost (with and without video)?*

I think all in all we've spent around 2k USD more or less, including orchestration, mix/master, proof-reading, filming - which was only 100 USD extra.

*- How was the mixing process (with metronome studios)? What was the price?*

Frankly I can't speak about his exact pricing openly. Don't hesitate to contact him, he's amazing to work with, and a true mixing wizard!

*- Did you add percussion afterwards (Glock, Cymbals, Tubular bells)?*

Yes! Any percussion except the timpani was added later as VST. Especially as percussion is always risky and plainly really super-easy to emulate with virtual instruments - you just have to hit the timing!  We've scored the timpani live though, as it is the most important percussion instrument of the full orchestra ever-since! For instance Bruckner wasn't a fan of percussion, but used a timpani in most (or all?) of his symphonies.

*- What is the composition of the orchestra (I would say 3220-4031-timp-str)? Especially for the strings (I didn't notice any double basses...)?*

Almost right  - we scored with 3.2.2.2 - 4.0.3.1. - timp - str: 12/10/8/6/4

We've added quite a plethora of percussion and misc instruments, including:

-crash cymbal
-sus cymbal
-gong
-mark tree
-triangle
-glockenspiel
-bass drum
-string overdubs
-contra bassoon
-low brass overlays
-two harps

I'd also like to mention that it is the first work I didn't use any piano. All my orchestra works usually have 1-2 pianos. Not necessarily for solo-esque piano usages at all, but in order to double the orchestra's main lines. This is super-typical even for Hollywood style recording, where it can not be directly made out at all. For instance in JW's Star Wars theme. The famous Carmina Burana opening scene uses even two pianos in background just in order to enrich the sound.

On a side note: take into account that orchestras which contain flutes, oboes etc., will normally also include bassoons, so it is well-balanced. For bassoons, having 2-3 of them (often 2nd/3rd is contra-bassoon) is standard size, but 4 are rare (Verdi did this)...you'll find 1 bsn in musical etc. scores - for lush scores like the above, or film scores not very common. Bassoons are quite easy to score. E. g. if you have 3 bassoons (3rd contra bassoon), 2 will often double the cellos (you can break up stuff into two different parts - remember different to the cellos all kind of winds have to BREATHE, flutes even more), while as the third one typically doubles the double basses note by note.

Same goes for string setups. Meaning if you have 1vl - 2vl - vlas - cell, you'll most likely have a section of basses as well. Sometimes this traditional convention is broken though (as in a string orchestra complementing a big band, or pop ensemble, with even just violins + violas, or just violins), but for film scores it is very unusual, meaning that orchestras without double basses are rather rare. However, with brass it is super common to just leave out the trumpets, or use just the 4 horns plus no other brass. This setup type is fantastic for soft type of scoring, as horns blend in extremely-well with the woodwinds. If you apply some con-sord on all strings it's pure cotton bliss. A scoring setup like this is commonly used by John Williams. While as John Powell or Danny Elfman sometimes use INSANE amounts of brass! Speaking of 12 horns alone in some Dreamworks scores, or 6 trombones, which is absolutely nuts. Two tubas at times as well, so it is well-balanced, but be aware - even one tuba is a pure power-machine. But I've lost my train of thought, well...

Anyways, here's a direct link for the printed score (I'll keep it available as a free download for 1-2 months): https://fredericbernardmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Underwater-Wonderscapes-v8.2.1-Final-Full-Score.pdf

Happy Studying, 
-Frederic


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## Noeticus (Apr 17, 2021)

FredericBernard said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Within the quarantine I found the time to work-out on a new piece for live orchestra (based on an piano solo piece of mine), which we recorded in Budapest.
> 
> ...



You are a genius!

This a very, very impressive!


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## reimerpdx (Apr 18, 2021)

FredericBernard said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Within the quarantine I found the time to work-out on a new piece for live orchestra (based on an piano solo piece of mine), which we recorded in Budapest.
> 
> ...



This is super!
Thank you for sharing the additional information as well.

How big was your time slot for them to record this piece?


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## Ivan M. (Apr 18, 2021)

Hey sounds fantastic!



> Feedback (as always) much obliged.


Ok then, if I may be nitpicky and play smart, here it goes: :D 

In the opening theme, violins are masking the oboe and the flute a bit, by being too loud (relative to winds), and playing in the same register. The lines violins play don't quite fit the melody in the winds. Howevr, I imagine if these same lines were played lower by cellos, it might sound fantastic!
Also, while starting impressive, it kinda lost it's impact on me in the middle, because of the simple harmony and the lack of a more dramatic movement in the melody.

Other than that, fantastic work, congrats! 
And the sound of a real orchestra and a real space is so pleasing to the ears


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## Ivan M. (Apr 18, 2021)

FredericBernard said:


> I think all in all we've spent around 2k USD more or less, including orchestration, mix/master, proof-reading, filming - which was only 100 USD extra.


I'm really curious, how do you organize all this? Do you go through online orchestration services, and they do it for you? Or do you have to know certain people? Can all of this be done online? And just get the recording and stems in a cloud transfer?


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## FredericBernard (Apr 19, 2021)

Ivan M. said:


> I'm really curious, how do you organize all this? Do you go through online orchestration services, and they do it for you? Or do you have to know certain people? Can all of this be done online? And just get the recording and stems in a cloud transfer?


Your feedback is much obliged!

As well as the orchestration- and writing routine goes, it isn't that easy, unfortunately. It's always a quite complex multi-layered workflow. Compare the model to creating a video-game or a film. But obviously creating a single piece of orchestral music is far less complex.

When recording live you will always find things that could be improved. Actually I've had no single recording session which went perfectly, but with additional VST-programming you can change a lot. Fast-paced/high strings for instance are almost always super-tricky to get a clean recording! But over time you will learn what works, and what doesn't, also in terms of orchestration (even at Disney they improve their world class orchestrations...e.g. compare the old vs. new orchestrations for Aladdin or Beauty and the Beast...incredible how they even improve something as perfect).

I usually tend to invest plenty of time on the stem editing process too. The final version I think uses five different takes. Overall we've had 11 takes for this track, which means about 500 wav files to deal with. At the end the mixing engineer gets only 40 files, for all different mic positions. I also always do the video cutting, but it is maybe 3-6 days of work, while as the production of the music takes longer. I also have to again credit Andrew and Max. They did a superb job!

Maybe you would like to hear all major versions from start to finish? I could check if I can find all versions. I think you would be surprised in how the music evolved.


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## Ivan M. (Apr 19, 2021)

FredericBernard said:


> Maybe you would like to hear all major versions from start to finish? I could check if I can find all versions. I think you would be surprised in how the music evolved.


Oh, you don't have to bother so much for me, you already shared a lot of info! I was just curious about the overall process. Thanks!


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## FredericBernard (Apr 20, 2021)

reimerpdx said:


> This is super!
> Thank you for sharing the additional information as well.
> 
> How big was your time slot for them to record this piece?


Just dropping by. Totally forgot to adress this. We've booked just one 1/2 hour slot.

-F


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## BenG (Apr 20, 2021)

Beautiful as always, Frederic! Thank you for sharing


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## smoothielova (Apr 21, 2021)

FredericBernard said:


> @Gil and @patrick76 I am glad you enjoy the score that much!
> 
> I am more then glad to address your questions directly:
> 
> ...


Beautiful piece! Thank you very much for getting to study your score!


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## Pianolando (Apr 22, 2021)

Wonderful piece, beautifully written and recorded, thanks for sharing! The orchestra sounds really great. Do you have any idea how much of the cost was recording/musicians vs. orchestration/proofreading/mix/master etc? I'm just finishing a project with a live orchestra in Sweden, the cost per track ended up at about 1200 USD, but that's with a smaller orchestra but 4-5 minute long tracks so it would be super interesting to compare prices. In my case I'm doing all orchestration and mixing myself.


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## Henk (Apr 24, 2021)

I like it, your music is wonderful
I also plan to use the Budapest Orchestra


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## MattGibsonMusic (Apr 24, 2021)

That was truly beautiful, made my morning


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## FredericBernard (Apr 24, 2021)

Pianolando said:


> Wonderful piece, beautifully written and recorded, thanks for sharing! The orchestra sounds really great. Do you have any idea how much of the cost was recording/musicians vs. orchestration/proofreading/mix/master etc? I'm just finishing a project with a live orchestra in Sweden, the cost per track ended up at about 1200 USD, but that's with a smaller orchestra but 4-5 minute long tracks so it would be super interesting to compare prices. In my case I'm doing all orchestration and mixing myself.


As written above my production costs were around 2k$ at least. I would never do the final mix on my own and would certainly go crazy with 50 to 100 different stems. :D Actually I do rough mixes all the time before I send stems to the engineer, but just as a guideline for the engineer they can help. Though I don't doubt that some composers have great mixing skills as well.

...Sweden sounds certainly like a completely new venue! How big is the orchestra and do they shared sessions? I've rarely heard much about "affordable" shared full orch. sessions which not take place in Eastern Europe. Only from Dynamedion, which record as well in Germany. Benny Oschmann's Raven Overture was certainly one of the best I saw. Great is that with Dynamedion mix/master/editing is (...or was?) all included, but I have no idea if they still do recordings, especially not in times of Corona. The studio sound quality is really fantastic:





PS: for new tutorials, what would you like me to write on? I am too busy at the moment, but generally love to write tutorials and would keep it in mind! Maybe about stem editing, leading an orchestra session, or rather about orchestration? Let me know your ideas.

Best,
Frederic


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## reimerpdx (Nov 6, 2021)

FredericBernard said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Within the quarantine I found the time to work-out on a new piece for live orchestra (based on an piano solo piece of mine), which we recorded in Budapest.
> 
> ...



Hey Frederic,
You wouldn't happen to have an example of any of the exported parts you could share, do you?


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## FredericBernard (Nov 19, 2021)

reimerpdx said:


> Hey Frederic,
> You wouldn't happen to have an example of any of the exported parts you could share, do you?


Of course. Which would you prefer to check out?

Cheers!
-Frederic


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