# Vi-Control's Collaborative Learning Project 7: Ostinato



## Darthmorphling (Sep 1, 2013)

Submissions:

Blender505
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F109395083&secret_url=false[/flash]
https://soundcloud.com/jivey3d/law-order-and-tyranny

David Chappell
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F110652380&secret_url=false[/flash]
https://soundcloud.com/davidchappell-2/maelstrom

Joshua
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F110687317&secret_url=false[/flash]
https://soundcloud.com/bitsofmyheart/vi ... borative-2

darthmorphling
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F110864378&secret_url=false[/flash]
https://soundcloud.com/darthmorphling/v ... -project-7

davidgary73
[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F112738488&secret_url=false[/flash]
https://soundcloud.com/davidgary73/forg ... dio-albion

In an effort to make these more focused we will compose a piece of music with the following rules:

- The piece should contain an ostinato that is present for the bulk of the piece. It can be as simple as a two note pattern, or it can be more complex.
- The piece will have a structure: a soft/mellow section followed by a loud/bombastic section. The ostinato will follow the dynamics of both sections. You are free to vary the dynamics of the pattern during each section.

The deadline will be Sept. 15.

As always, be prepared to critique the other submissions, as well as have your piece be critiqued.


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## Dan Mott (Sep 6, 2013)

Hey Darth.

This seems like a cool project. I think I will enter this one. How long should the piece be?


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## Darthmorphling (Sep 7, 2013)

No real set times. Write til it sounds good! And welcome to the project!

My interface died and I am waiting on my replacement to get shipped. Doing this with onboard audio really sucks.


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## blender505 (Sep 7, 2013)

Just finished my entry for this one. Will try to post it sometime tomorrow after I've had a fresh listen and final edit. I really need to participate in these more often, even if I don't write anything.


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## blender505 (Sep 8, 2013)

Ok, gave it a final listen and decided to post it. Unfortunately, I don't have access to speakers or monitors right now, so I can't really properly mix this other than listening through my headphones.

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F109395083&secret_url=false[/flash]

https://soundcloud.com/jivey3d/law-order-and-tyranny

Reaper. VSL SE for all strings and woodwinds. Hollywood Brass Gold for all brass. Spitfire Percussion Redux for all percussion.


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## Darthmorphling (Sep 8, 2013)

@Blender505

Updated the first post with your submission. Very nice writing. I want to listen to it a few more times before critiquing, but you've set the bar for this project!


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## Sasje (Sep 11, 2013)

Sounds amazing Blender505!


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## David Chappell (Sep 15, 2013)

Here's my submission for this one:

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F110652380&secret_url=false[/flash]

I actually kinda struggled with this one a bit for some reason... it just didn't seem to flow quite as much as I'd have liked. But ho hum, i'm happy enough with the result at least.

@Blender

I really like your track - sounds very polished. The ostinato at the beginning is very good. It sounds a little far away, but i'm not sure if that's a deliberate choice of mic placement or if that's just how that library sounds. I love the brass in particular, it's very powerful.


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## Dan Mott (Sep 15, 2013)

Mine is taking longer than I expected. I keep getting new ideas.

I will hopefully post a rough idea later on.

Nice submissions guys. Awesome!


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## joshua (Sep 15, 2013)

Here's one with an abrupt ending, or no ending  I'll review others tomorrow.

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F110687317&secret_url=false[/flash]

Library: LASS (Dry)


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## Darthmorphling (Sep 15, 2013)

Mine is taking a little longer than expected as well. Had a difficult time with this one as it was hard coming up with a pattern that sounded good mellow and bombastic. After reading the ostinato thread Sasje started, things stared clicking for me and I think I've got it. However, now the melody is not working with the bombastic. It will get posted tomorrow evening regardless of it being done. It's close though.

Will critique them all tomorrow


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## joshua (Sep 16, 2013)

blender505 @ Sun Sep 08 said:


> Ok, gave it a final listen and decided to post it. Unfortunately, I don't have access to speakers or monitors right now, so I can't really properly mix this other than listening through my headphones.
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F109395083&secret_url=false[/flash]
> 
> ...


Clean ostinato, sounds original, too, to me
I like that it stays in the background and sometimes not audible when others instruments get loud. Love that kind of layering.


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## joshua (Sep 16, 2013)

David Chappell @ Sun Sep 15 said:


> Here's my submission for this one:
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F110652380&secret_url=false[/flash]
> 
> ...


Your ostinato is really quiet here, can only hear it when no melody is playing, which is fine as it provides a nice pulse and mantains the continuity of the piece. Perhaps it's got too much reverb/tail that the notes are so not clear-cut and leaning toward muddy sound.


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## Darthmorphling (Sep 16, 2013)

Here is mine. It's still not finished. There is some CC editing to be done, and I'm not sure about the piano in the beginning. This was harder than I thought. I have been listening to a lot of game music the past two weeks, and I have noticed that the more complex an ostinato is, the less melodic the track is. Not sure how I did on this one, but please tell me where it needs improvement. I will do the same!

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F110864378&secret_url=false[/flash]
https://soundcloud.com/darthmorphling/v ... -project-7

Libraries:
Spitfire Audio Albion 1
Zebra 2
Project Alpha's Sad Piano
Kontakt Library Piano
Composed in Reaper


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## Darthmorphling (Sep 17, 2013)

@David Chappell

What I like about this piece is that the ostinato is there, but it is not overpowering. The melody if terrific and I like how you used different instruments throughout so the repetition of the motif remained fresh. I was listening to it while my students were working and one of the kids asked what movie it was from.

@blender505

This is a well written track. The melody is strong. Your production skills are top notch as usual. The ostinato never causes the piece to become repetitive as you have so many other things going on. The only thing I am not sure about is that harp/synth like sound that pops in and out. 

@Joshua

The slow part in the beginning is my favorite part. The way you have a pattern using longer notes is a welcome change from the staccato ostinatos that are so prevalent. I would love to hear you finish this piece as the parts are all good, but they don't seem to flow as one. You did say it wasn't finished though.

My piece

I'm quite happy with the ostinato and how it is slightly different in the beginning than it is in the bombastic part. The more I listen to it, the more the piano and the low bass line in the beginning is just not working. I like the sound of the bass, but the execution needs some finesse. The piano sounds like something written by someone who doesn't play piano, which I don't.


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## blender505 (Sep 17, 2013)

Thanks for the comments and I'll get to listening to each one of the entries in detail as soon as I get the time.


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## Dan Mott (Sep 17, 2013)

Hello

Well... I will post a rough outline. I'm not sure what I want to turn this into. So. I'll post what I have.

https://soundcloud.com/destaana/ostinato-project


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## joshua (Sep 18, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Mon Sep 16 said:


> Here is mine. It's still not finished. There is some CC editing to be done, and I'm not sure about the piano in the beginning. This was harder than I thought. I have been listening to a lot of game music the past two weeks, and I have noticed that the more complex an ostinato is, the less melodic the track is. Not sure how I did on this one, but please tell me where it needs improvement. I will do the same!
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F110864378&secret_url=false[/flash]
> https://soundcloud.com/darthmorphling/v ... -project-7
> ...


The ostinati snippet at 0:25-0:27 is good. What follows (0:27-0:29) is what I'm not fond of. Is that supposed to be an "echo" or "call-and-response" thing? If so, I would make the second half sound in different color.

I don't know your intention, but you have the ostinato only change slightly between the first and second half of the piece, so even though you got more instruments playing on the second half, the piece is stuck in the same mood throughout. 

If you want more contrast, I would probably add higher notes on the second half of ostinato, and perhaps with shorter (something with more accents) string patch.


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## joshua (Sep 18, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Tue Sep 17 said:


> @Joshua
> [...]
> I would love to hear you finish this piece as the parts are all good, but they don't seem to flow as one. You did say it wasn't finished though.



My goal was to play as many variety of ostinati. So, yeah, I didn't have time to make the piece more cohesive or flow better.


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## Darthmorphling (Sep 19, 2013)

joshua @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> The ostinati snippet at 0:25-0:27 is good. What follows (0:27-0:29) is what I'm not fond of. Is that supposed to be an "echo" or "call-and-response" thing? If so, I would make the second half sound in different color.



Not really a call and response, but just an interesting rythmic effect. I grew up listening to a lot of '80s thrash metal and I just love wierd rythmic lines. People like Brian tyler and Lorne Balfe really know how to write that way. I'm quite torn as I also find myself drawn to the Williams of the composing world as well.



> I don't know your intention, but you have the ostinato only change slightly between the first and second half of the piece, so even though you got more instruments playing on the second half, the piece is stuck in the same mood throughout.



This was by design as the requirements for the project were to have the ostinato present throughout the piece. The beginning ostinato is the same as the end, I only removed some of the notes in the beginning.



> If you want more contrast, I would probably add higher notes on the second half of ostinato, and perhaps with shorter (something with more accents) string patch.



I will try it with some higher notes and see how that effects it.

Thanks for the feedback![/quote]


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## Darthmorphling (Sep 19, 2013)

joshua @ Wed Sep 18 said:


> Darthmorphling @ Tue Sep 17 said:
> 
> 
> > @Joshua
> ...



I think you have something with the piece. The writing is quite good. Please do finish it, or cannibalize the parts for other pieces.


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## blender505 (Sep 22, 2013)

Ok, now for my critiques and suggestions.

David Chappell:
Overall a very nice piece. You've got a great theme that doesn't really get boring or overly repetitive. Some suggestions I would make is to make the first 30 seconds or so louder and more defined. I have to turn up the volume quite a bit to hear everything that's going on during that first bit. I would also say that fading in the ostinato from that soft sounds a little weird to me. Maybe keep the drums and the rhythmic synths at the beginning but have the ostinato come in softly, but a little more defined around the time the piccolo plays the melody (maybe right after it plays it the first time). When you start to transition to the big section (around 1:04 to 1:50 or so), I feel as though there's something missing in the middle ground. The ostinato could probably be a little louder, or something (maybe a trombone section) holding out the chords in the middle.

Joshua:
I realize this is not a finished piece, but I think the sound could be improved drastically if you layered more instruments and gave the chords a little more structure. You started to do that during the last part. Again, since this was more of a series of tests than a single cohesive piece, I can't find much else for me to critique.

Darthmorphling:
Pretty good piece, but there are some things I would like to suggest. The first thing I noticed while listening to the piece was the lack of some legato transitions, especially in the low strings during the softer parts and the brass at the beginning of the louder part. Also, it seems to me that when the brass comes in (starting around 0:55), it seems to lag slightly behind everything else. As for the arrangement and orchestration, I think it's not bad, but there could probably be a little more in the mid-background. A couple of suggestions. You've got a nice rhythmic synth starting at 0:23. Maybe double some of those hits with some small drum of some sort. Also, your low brass staccatos could be doubled with big drums.

Hope I was helpful and not just critical.



David Chappell @ Sun Sep 15 said:


> @Blender
> 
> I really like your track - sounds very polished. The ostinato at the beginning is very good. It sounds a little far away, but i'm not sure if that's a deliberate choice of mic placement or if that's just how that library sounds. I love the brass in particular, it's very powerful.


Thanks. I think part of it is that my string section was too soft in general (something I noticed after I posted). However, In the future, I might experiment with creating different mic positions with reverb. VSL is completely close mic'd and dry.



joshua @ Mon Sep 16 said:


> Clean ostinato, sounds original, too, to me
> I like that it stays in the background and sometimes not audible when others instruments get loud. Love that kind of layering.


Thanks.



Darthmorphling @ Tue Sep 17 said:


> @blender505
> 
> This is a well written track. The melody is strong. Your production skills are top notch as usual. The ostinato never causes the piece to become repetitive as you have so many other things going on. The only thing I am not sure about is that harp/synth like sound that pops in and out.


Thanks. The sound you are probably referring to are the woodwinds doing a diminished 7th chromatic scale run (or at least that's how I'm going to describe it).


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## David Chappell (Oct 3, 2013)

Please excuse my lateness in giving feedback - I've just moved into a new flat and been without internet for the past 2 weeks. :(

@Joshua
It'll be good to hear what it sounds like as a finished piece. Definitely with more layering of instruments it will sound a lot better. I like the ostinato in the beginning more than the later one, maybe just because the later stacatto sounds a little bare without much instrumental layering. Whereas the beginning, legato one sounds fine on its own.

@Darth
very good track! Loving the synth elements in particular. The ostinato sounds very good in that it develops well from the quiet to bombastic without needing to change much at all, rather with the bombastic coming from the other instruments. I really like the the ending too, very dark and moody. One thing i would suggest is that maybe the string sustains from 0:44 to 0:54 would sound good as tremelo to give a bit more suspense which I think, given the overall tone of the piece would fit quite well.

Thank you everyone for the feeback on my piece as well!


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## davidgary73 (Oct 3, 2013)

Thought of sharing my simple arrangement   

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F112738488&secret_url=false[/flash]

https://soundcloud.com/davidgary73/forg ... dio-albion

Library: Spitfire Audio | Albion 1 Redux 
Choral and SSD 4 drums for enhancement.

Do comment.


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## Darthmorphling (Oct 3, 2013)

davidgary73 @ Thu Oct 03 said:


> Thought of sharing my simple arrangement
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F112738488&secret_url=false[/flash]
> 
> ...



Updated the first post with your submission.

This is a very nice sounding track. You have created a piece using Albion in a way that I have yet to come close to. Nothing stands out as needing improvement that I can hear.

Would you mind sharing your midi? I always have a hard time with CC curves and making the lines seem realistic. You seem to have that down.

I listened to some of your other tracks and they are just as good. Are they official demos or just works focusing on each of your libraries?


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## blender505 (Oct 3, 2013)

davidgary73 @ Thu Oct 03 said:


> Thought of sharing my simple arrangement
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F112738488&secret_url=false[/flash]
> 
> ...


A very nicely put together piece. Obviously you know what you're doing and I'm afraid that commenting on it would make me sound like I know what I'm doing (which is a lie, I only pretend to know what I'm doing). That being said, here are some things I might have done differently.

The part at 0:33 until about 1:00 (especially the first half of that), I would maybe doubled the melody on the violas (or whatever is left in the palette that goes to that D below middle C) an octave lower than the main melody. It won't give it a bigger sound, but it will make it stronger and fill in any gaps between the violins and the cellos/basses.

I'm not sure how well albion does the loudest dynamics of brass, but when it comes in at 1:01, I would suggest making the brass louder and brassier. This is it's time to shine in the center of everything. Also, I had the idea of maybe changing the first two notes it plays to a dotted quarter and an accented 8th note staccato (instead of two quarter notes). I'm also not sure I like the flute playing that counter melody by itself. The brass pauses for long enough that that voice needs to be able to hold it's own. Maybe double it with the string section at a lower volume (and perhaps an octave lower than when it plays in the next section so that the buildup has the same effect).

Again, these are just suggestions of things I may have done differently if I ever attempted something like this. Also, some of these things might be difficult to do with albion (because of the ensemble approach). I'm use to orchestrating with the individual sections, so some of what I said may not translate over well, but I still hope it was helpful and not just nitpicky.


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## davidgary73 (Oct 3, 2013)

Darthmorphling @ Fri Oct 04 said:


> Updated the first post with your submission.
> 
> This is a very nice sounding track. You have created a piece using Albion in a way that I have yet to come close to. Nothing stands out as needing improvement that I can hear.
> 
> ...



Thank you sir for having me onboard. Am still learning to create realistic/melodic lines. Some good videos i always refer to are Mike Verta's VI tutorials and his online masterclasses. Not forgetting, i'm using Logic Pro 9 with VEP 5. 

As for the midi, which section would you like to checkout? 

These are only work focusing on individual libraries but Blake Ewing hosted a soundcloud group whereby we can share our library demos @ https://soundcloud.com/groups/sample-library-demos




blender505 @ Fri Oct 04 said:


> A very nicely put together piece. Obviously you know what you're doing and I'm afraid that commenting on it would make me sound like I know what I'm doing (which is a lie, I only pretend to know what I'm doing). That being said, here are some things I might have done differently.
> 
> The part at 0:33 until about 1:00 (especially the first half of that), I would maybe doubled the melody on the violas (or whatever is left in the palette that goes to that D below middle C) an octave lower than the main melody. It won't give it a bigger sound, but it will make it stronger and fill in any gaps between the violins and the cellos/basses.
> 
> ...



Thank you blender505 for every input and is indeed very helpful. I'm still in the midst of learning orchestration and it's really fun and yet challenging. 

The violas are indeed missing in this track and a great idea to double the melody line on that section   

The dynamics for mid brass is kinda mellow but i can always add a Hi brass to make it brassier and also try out the 2 dotted quater notes (8th note staccato) as you suggested. 

For counter melody, what would suit best? Hi strings? 

The later brass section, i kinda dip it to give way for the melody. I can push the brass louder :wink: :wink:


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## Darthmorphling (Oct 4, 2013)

davidgary73 @ Thu Oct 03 said:


> As for the midi, which section would you like to checkout?



I'd like to see the 1:15-1:30 section if you wouldn't mind.

Mike Verta's video is great, but it focuses more on playing live. I am not a keyboard player by any means other than being able to noodle melodies with one hand. haven't perfected the modwheel while playing yet. Getting there.


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## davidgary73 (Oct 4, 2013)

Playing with the modwheel while recording it's still a challenge for me too but getting a hang of it also  

Another way i go about is to play the melody/lines in and later record the dynamics via modwheel after.

Mid file sent via pm. 

Anyway, will be away for the weekend. Have a great weekend everyone   

Cheers


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## Darthmorphling (Oct 5, 2013)

@davidgary73 

Thanks for sharing the midi. You have some interesting CC curves going on. They are definitely giving me somethings to try out in my future pieces.


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