# Getting a TV for my studio tomorrow, could use some input



## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

Currently working on a MacBook Pro 13" 2019. 

I'm considering a 4K TV to use as a second monitor, probably in the 40-50 inch range, to be placed behind my desk between my studio monitors.

For those of you who are using a using a TV, what should I pay attention to when picking the TV? I'm learning towards getting a dumb TV, because any onboard "smart" software will just shorten its lifespan. Anything to look for in terms of connectors / ports? 

Thank you!


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## fakemaxwell (Dec 9, 2021)

I don't think onboard smart software is going to shorten the lifespan of the TV, and tbh I doubt you can find a new TV that doesn't have some sort of OS on it.

The only thing I wouldn't recommend is an OLED TV for a monitor, as computers generally have a lot of static elements which can lead to rougher burn in. Rtings.com is a good site for sifting through what's available.


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## Daren Audio (Dec 9, 2021)

I'm using a Vizio 40" 4K HDTV with my iMac 27". It's great to split Logic panels across multiple monitors. *Kontakt* looks amazing on the 40" since its GUI is not resizable. I decided to go with the "smart TV" as I'm able to watch tv while working at times. However, I don't connect it directly to the internet. I'm planning to get a third HDTV (24") to mount vertically for using with Dorico, while the iMac displays the DAW and 40" HDTV displays multiple plugins windows, video and other apps. My desktop space is limited so I mounted the 40" on a spring-loaded desktop monitor arm mount so it's floating above the desk while I have gear below it.

*Things to look out for: *
- Make sure BOTH 4K HDTV and your MBP supports the same display resolutions / frequency refresh rate Hz. 60 Hz is most widely used.
- Make sure the HDMI cable supports 4K resolution. Some HDMI cables only support HD @720p, FHD (full HD) @1080p. Very inexpensive on Amazon (BestBuy markups like 4-5x).

Great deals can be found at the "open box" section at BestBuy if you don't mind buying returned items. Some are practically brand new and work perfectly fine.

Jef Gibbons' video inspired my own setup!


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## cedricm (Dec 9, 2021)

Do you really want a TV?
I've been using an Iiyama 40" 4K monitor for about 5 years.

With a TV, you risk having increased latency vs a monitor, and you'd better hope you can disable any picture "embellishment".

If you go the TV way, I'd recommend compatibility with HDMI 2.1& HDCP 2.2 to make it kind of future-proof.
Also, you never know, get a TV with 2, 3 or 4 if possible HDMI ports. Maybe you'll want to connect an Xbox or a PS5 or another computer.


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## Olympum (Dec 9, 2021)

Daren Audio said:


> My desktop space is limited so I mounted the 40" on a spring-loaded desktop monitor arm mount so it's floating above the desk while I have gear below it.


How do position your iMac 27’’ relative to the TV, is it on the side? How do you find the ergonomics? I am debating whether to move to a large 40’’ vs my iMac 27’’ with a side 27’’ 4K monitor, but I don’t know where to place the iMac that won’t be a pain in the neck, literally …


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## shawnsingh (Dec 9, 2021)

Things I would recommend:

Skip OLED, unfortunately, because of burn in.
Most important in my opinion: uniformity of back lighting. Rtings website rates gray uniformity. In the past I prioritized getting a 4:4:4 display, but it was edge-lit and had terrible color gradients across the screen. It was so unpleasant to use, I returned it within a few days. Heuristically, I would expect full array LED backlights to be the most uniform compared to edge lit displays.
Second most important, is a least 60hz supported at 4k? This requires an HDMI 2.0 connection, an HDMI 2.0 compatible cable, and a video card that can output HDMI 2.0. at this point in tech, probably even dining for 2.2 I don't have much experience with displayport, I think displayport might have slightly better support for [email protected], as well as better support for things like computer controlling the sleep state of the monitor.
Third most important, 4:4:4 color support, again, at 4k and 60hz. This will ensure you can get crisp small text. In my experience, since I end up zooming all websites at 4k anyway, and because I set dpi to a bit higher, I don't usually encounter the smallest text fonts very often so my lack of 4:4:4 didn't bother me to much. Anyway rtings website also has charts that show which TVs support proper 4:4:4 at 4k 60hz.
About configuring the TV - experiment with turning all image processing off (e.g. all sharpness to zero in particular)


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## dzilizzi (Dec 9, 2021)

I would get somthing like this to put between the desk and the window so you aren't on top of your monitor -






I have a 55" TV that I got a deal on and it is a little too big to look at for me. I have a backed stool that has a good height adjustment and when on it's lowest setting (normal chair height) my neck hurts looking up. It is also a lot brighter than I would like it to be, but for me, Windows doesn't seem to control the brightness.

On the plus side, there is a lot of real estate to use, which will be huge coming from 13" and the 4K is pretty clear.

edit - having problems with the link - made a copy of the image. it is just a portable TV stand


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## Kent (Dec 9, 2021)

I9 10900k OpenCore/Catalina Hackintosh Build Journal


Following with great interest!




vi-control.net


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

fakemaxwell said:


> I don't think onboard smart software is going to shorten the lifespan of the TV, and tbh I doubt you can find a new TV that doesn't have some sort of OS on it.


At least that was how it was when I was looking for my previous TV. Laggy Android menus on chips that could barely run the software out of the factory. Maybe that's changed. But life's too short for laggy menus...  



fakemaxwell said:


> The only thing I wouldn't recommend is an OLED TV for a monitor, as computers generally have a lot of static elements which can lead to rougher burn in. Rtings.com is a good site for sifting through what's available.


So the preferred options would be LCD or... ULED, which I'm not familiar with?


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

Daren Audio said:


> I'm using a Vizio 40" 4K HDTV with my iMac 27". It's great to split Logic panels across multiple monitors. *Kontakt* looks amazing on the 40" since its GUI is not resizable. I decided to go with the "smart TV" as I'm able to watch tv while working at times. However, I don't connect it directly to the internet. I'm planning to get a third HDTV (24") to mount vertically for using with Dorico, while the iMac displays the DAW and 40" HDTV displays multiple plugins windows, video and other apps. My desktop space is limited so I mounted the 40" on a spring-loaded desktop monitor arm mount so it's floating above the desk while I have gear below it.
> 
> *Things to look out for: *
> - Make sure BOTH 4K HDTV and your MBP supports the same display resolutions / frequency refresh rate Hz. 60 Hz is most widely used.
> ...



Great info, thank you! His setup is more or less what I would like, however placed a little lower on a floor stand. This is my laptop, so it seems like i'm good?


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

cedricm said:


> Do you really want a TV?
> I've been using an Iiyama 40" 4K monitor for about 5 years.
> 
> With a TV, you risk having increased latency vs a monitor, and you'd better hope you can disable any picture "embellishment".
> ...


It doesn't have to be a TV. I've been using laptop screen only for quite a long time, so maybe I'm just out of sync, but my understanding is that TVs are cheaper? I'll look into monitors, too.


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## Wedge (Dec 9, 2021)

I noticed a few people have stated to turn off picture enhancement to remove latency. It's easier to just to make sure the TV has a 'game' mode and use it instead.


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

shawnsingh said:


> Things I would recommend:
> 
> Skip OLED, unfortunately, because of burn in.


LCD then?



shawnsingh said:


> Most important in my opinion: uniformity of back lighting. Rtings website rates gray uniformity. In the past I prioritized getting a 4:4:4 display, but it was edge-lit and had terrible color gradients across the screen. It was so unpleasant to use, I returned it within a few days. Heuristically, I would expect full array LED backlights to be the most uniform compared to edge lit displays.


How do I identify if it's backlit instead of edge lit? Probably a very basic question, but I don't watch TV so I'm very out of the TV loop :D 



shawnsingh said:


> Second most important, is a least 60hz supported at 4k? This requires an HDMI 2.0 connection, an HDMI 2.0 compatible cable, and a video card that can output HDMI 2.0. at this point in tech, probably even dining for 2.2 I don't have much experience with displayport, I think displayport might have slightly better support for [email protected], as well as better support for things like computer controlling the sleep state of the monitor.


These are is the video support specs of my Mac. I many need a thunderbolt to HDMI converter here? Not if the Apply dongle I have (1 power, 1 hdmi, 1 usb) will support hdmi 2.0.



shawnsingh said:


> Third most important, 4:4:4 color support, again, at 4k and 60hz. This will ensure you can get crisp small text. In my experience, since I end up zooming all websites at 4k anyway, and because I set dpi to a bit higher, I don't usually encounter the smallest text fonts very often so my lack of 4:4:4 didn't bother me to much. Anyway rtings website also has charts that show which TVs support proper 4:4:4 at 4k 60hz.



What I worry is that i'll be walking into a store and they won't know or be able to confirm 4:4:4 color support.



shawnsingh said:


> About configuring the TV - experiment with turning all image processing off (e.g. all sharpness to zero in particular)


Good point!


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I would get somthing like this to put between the desk and the window so you aren't on top of your monitor -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I'm aiming for. I don't want to look up. My plan is to place it behind the desk, with center of screen being a little lower, which will work because my desk isn't very deep.

But you find that you can't lower your 55" TV just enough? I definitely want to avoid looking up, I've tried that in the past, it's horrible for the neck.


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

kmaster said:


> I9 10900k OpenCore/Catalina Hackintosh Build Journal
> 
> 
> Following with great interest!
> ...


Great info. My thoughts align with yours on this, including getting a floor stand and also not looking straight or up at it, but actually a little down. As you can see, my desk is not very deep, so I plan to have the bottom of the TV be below the height of the desk, but a bit away so that the desk doesn't block it.

Your post was from July 2020 and your situation was a little in flux. Could you maybe share an update on the setup and if you've gotten the flat desk and how it works for you? I hear picture(s) says more than a thousand words...


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

Wedge said:


> I noticed a few people have stated to turn off picture enhancement to remove latency. It's easier to just to make sure the TV has a 'game' mode and use it instead.


Good point!


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## dzilizzi (Dec 9, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> This is exactly what I'm aiming for. I don't want to look up. My plan is to place it behind the desk, with center of screen being a little lower, which will work because my desk isn't very deep.
> 
> But you find that you can lower your 55" TV just enough? I definitely want to avoid looking up, I've tried that in the past, it's horrible for the neck.


Because of my setup, I can't really lower it much. Fortunately, I bought this stool to support my standing desk I use for work, so I am able to raise the chair to match the TV. It works well for me.


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## Kent (Dec 9, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Great info. My thoughts align with yours on this, including getting a floor stand and also not looking straight or up at it, but actually a little down. As you can see, my desk is not very deep, so I plan to have the bottom of the TV be below the height of the desk, but a bit away so that the desk doesn't block it.
> 
> Your post was from July 2020 and your situation was a little in flux. Could you maybe share an update on the setup and if you've gotten the flat desk and how it works for you? I hear picture(s) says more than a thousand words...


I love my setup! Here's my potato-quality picture from a few seconds ago:






I can't imagine going back to a smaller screen. This is ergonomically ideal.


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

kmaster said:


> I love my setup! Here's my potato-quality picture from a few seconds ago:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And the tv is behind the desk? A little hard to see…


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## Kent (Dec 9, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> And the tv is behind the desk? A little hard to see…


It is—the front face is probably 5 or 6 inches behind the edge of the desk


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 9, 2021)

I had a similar discussion recently.

About monitors (remember I'm a PC user, so better check with Apple users): you can probably choose any brand (I like Samsung and LG) and any 4K TV (or 8K if you can find one) will do (with or without tuner) as long as it has HDMI inputs. There are also DisplayPort to HDMI 2.x converting dongles if needed because very few TVs have DisplayPort inputs directly on them. Be mindful that there are different versions of HDMI. Same thing for DisplayPort a.k.a. Thunderbolt in Apple parlance.

The thing to be careful about is that it should have 4:4:4 chroma sub-sampling but _most_ TVs are and have it. It makes text and symbols much clearer. It's like having WAV compared to mp3 or full quality uncompressed image versus a jpeg. If you don't know about this check this good article with pictures:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling

(btw great site to shop for monitors & TVs) for a clear explanation.

The last thing is the monitor panel technology. If you're directly facing it when working any technology will do but if it will be at an angle other than 90° then the best ones are IPS. Because of my wide setup you've seen above I went also IPS otherwise I would have lost contrast and legibility on the external monitors like show below here:














IPS vs TN vs VA - Which Is Best? [Ultimate Guide] - DisplayNinja


What is the difference between IPS, TN, and VA panels, and which one is most suited for YOU? Read our simple guide here and find out.




www.displayninja.com





Sorry to the long post. My husband explained all of this to me a few years back and helped me choose because I was not aware of _any_ of this before. It's useful to have your personal in-house tech. 

Added: I forgot to say that if money is really no object then an OLED monitor (e.g. by LG) offers the best image quality around BUT will burn-in if you leave the same image parts on the screen for long times, like menu bars, buttons, etc. So not a good idea for computer use. Beware! More about it here:








OLED screen burn-in is rare, but it could still ruin your TV (or Nintendo Switch)


You’ve heard about image retention and burn-in. Should you be worried? Here are the facts.




www.cnet.com


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 9, 2021)

Oops, I refer to my setup in the previous post so here it is. My main workstation is three 49" 4K Seiki monitors plus (not visible) two touchscreens, a 24" Asus and a 55" Samsung used as a touch mixer:


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## fakemaxwell (Dec 9, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> What I worry is that i'll be walking into a store and they won't know or be able to confirm 4:4:4 color support.


I would not recommend walking into a store that sells TVs without knowing exactly what you want to look at/purchase already.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 9, 2021)

fakemaxwell said:


> I would not recommend walking into a store that sells TVs without knowing exactly what you want to look at/purchase already.


Absolutely. That's why the table under "Test Results" in this page I referred to is invaluable:



https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

fakemaxwell said:


> I would not recommend walking into a store that sells TVs without knowing exactly what you want to look at/purchase already.


Indeed, however, there's a time constraint component as well unfortunately, so I need to make the best decision I can under circumstances.



Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Absolutely. That's why the table under "Test Results" in this page I referred to is invaluable


Absolutely valuable, thank you!

I just came out of the store, having looked at 55" versions of:
Sony X90J
LG Nano 80
Samsung AU8000

According to the store assistant, only the Sony is full array. I'll go into the their respective details. 

Do you see any red obvious flags in the list above? Also, I'm not really buying this for a viewing experience, so things like dolby atmos what not don't really have value here. So please tell me if I'm shooting over the target in terms of budget. 

Thank you for the inputs!

cc @kmaster @shawnsingh @Daren Audio


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## Kent (Dec 9, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Indeed, however, there's a time constraint component as well unfortunately, so I need to make the best decision I can under circumstances.
> 
> 
> Absolutely valuable, thank you!
> ...


Of those three I'd get the Sony, hands down.


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

kmaster said:


> Of those three I'd get the Sony, hands down.


Ok. "hands down" calls for a few extra words... preferably about why you say so?


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## Kent (Dec 9, 2021)

Number of reasons, but for me the most salient features are:

LG:
not VA, so will eventually experience burn-in. Disqualified.

Then, compare:

Samsung:


> The Samsung AU8000 is good for use as a PC monitor. It has low input lag for a responsive desktop experience, but the slow response time makes motion look blurry. It has great reflection handling if you want to use it in a fairly well-lit room. It displays chroma 4:4:4, which helps with text clarity. Sadly, it has narrow viewing angles, so the image looks washed out at the side if you sit too close.


vs Sony:


> The Sony X90J is good for use as a PC monitor. It has low input lag and a quick response time, and it supports most common resolutions as well as chroma 4:4:4 for better text clarity. There aren't any issues with 4k @ 120Hz signals with chroma 4:4:4 either. Its reflection handling is only decent, but it gets more than bright enough to combat glare. Unfortunately, it has pretty narrow viewing angles, so the image looks inaccurate at the edges if you sit up close.


So... Sony, hands down.


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

kmaster said:


> Number of reasons, but for me the most salient features are:
> 
> LG:
> not VA, so will eventually experience burn-in. Disqualified.
> ...


Thank you, I appreciate the rapid response!


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 9, 2021)

Agree on:LG = OLED = Out
Disagree: I take Samsung over Sony here. 
That's also the way I went for best 55" 4K.

Slow response time: only important for games.
Narrow angle: not important for normal PC usage

Sony for this application (PC monitor):




Not impressive! 

Your best tool: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/recommendation

With these criteria:




Results:




All top models are Samsung here.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 9, 2021)

A more complete list, sorted by suitability for criteria above (best PC usage):


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 9, 2021)

But I wouldn't go for model AU8000 necessarily.

In my case I chose an IPS panel because it's used as a touch mixer.
My model is Samsung 55" IPS 4K UN55JS7000FXZA (several years old model)
Details here: https://vi-control.net/community/th...-portal-to-control-cubase.106101/post-4771885


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## osterdamus (Dec 9, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> But I wouldn't go for model AU8000 necessarily.
> 
> In my case I chose an IPS panel because it's used as a touch mixer.
> My model is Samsung 55" IPS 4K UN55JS7000FXZA (several years old model)
> Details here: https://vi-control.net/community/th...-portal-to-control-cubase.106101/post-4771885


Thank you, I’ll go back to the store and check the Samsungs againg. One thing I did notice was that they said the Samsung wasn’t full array LED, which was recommended here. But that might just have that particular model. 

I don’t need touch for this one, maybe in a future purchase.

Is there a filter for full array on rtings?


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## cedricm (Dec 9, 2021)

Wedge said:


> I noticed a few people have stated to turn off picture enhancement to remove latency. It's easier to just to make sure the TV has a 'game' mode and use it instead.


It isn't only a question of latency. Some TVs are, or at least used to, automatically apply sharpening filters and/or other "enhancements" such as motion blur that may be fantastic for sports and movies but not for their use as computer screens.

I found this. I can't vouch for it, but it seems they do actual tests:








The 6 Best 4k Gaming TVs - Winter 2022: Reviews


The best 4k TV for gaming we've tested is the Samsung S95B OLED. It's an amazing TV for gaming thanks to its low input lag and near-instantaneous response time, resulting in crystal-clear motion with no ghosting around fast-moving objects.




www.rtings.com





Apparently, there are even TVs compatible with G-Sync and/or Freesync.


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## shawnsingh (Dec 10, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> How do I identify if it's backlit instead of edge lit?


I think from the last round of shopping I've done, it seems like edge-lit is becoming less common. "Full array LED backlight" is probably most common now and will be proper back lighting. There also "micro led array" these days, while it is likely to be even better for some scenarios, you don't have to worry about the"micro" unlees you really like it more!



osterdamus said:


> What I worry is that i'll be walking into a store and they won't know or be able to confirm 4:4:4 color support.


If you are able to check rtings.com on a phone while your out shopping, you could confirm in real-time. I think someone on this thread already linked to the rtings chroma subsampling page.

Good luck, cheers!


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 10, 2021)

I stand corrected, the LG NANO 80 is not OLED but Nanocell (duh!) and does NOT suffer from burn-in according to this article








NanoCell vs. OLED: Which TV Tech Should You Choose?


In this article, we explain what NanoCell and OLED screens are, how they work, and the differences between them.




www.makeuseof.com




BUT the quality off this model is less than stellar as a PC monitor and in general:








LG NANO80 2020 Review (49NANO80UNA, 55NANO80UNA, 65NANO80UNA, 75NANO80UNA)


The LG NANO80 2020 is a lower-midrange 4k TV with okay overall performance. It's a larger variant of the LG NANO81 and offers similar performance and features, e...




www.rtings.com





You can also check this comparison








The 5 Best 4k TVs For PC Monitors - Winter 2022: Reviews


The best TV monitor we've tested is the Samsung QN90B QLED. It's a high-end TV that's available in a wide range of sizes, so you're sure to find something that meets your needs.




www.rtings.com




So I'm still in the Samsung camp here


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## osterdamus (Dec 11, 2021)

Thank you all for your helpful inputs! After walking back and forth with my laptop in the store, I decided to go for a Samsung. Can't wait to set this up.


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 11, 2021)

Cool! Maybe I ask which model did you get?


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## osterdamus (Dec 11, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Cool! Maybe I ask which model did you get?


Sure, I went with a Q70A 55".


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 11, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Sure, I went with a Q70A 55".


Excellent choice as a PC monitor! Have fun with it and please compose more Bossa music, I love it!


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## osterdamus (Dec 11, 2021)

Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Excellent choice as a PC monitor!


Good to hear.

I've been in 13" space for so long on my laptop, it's going to be interesting to experiment with all this screen estate with Logic... and if there's something I'll keep on the laptop screen (thinking maybe the Piano roll). 


Tatiana Gordeeva said:


> Have fun with it and please compose more Bossa music, I love it!


Haha, I promise, a lot more Bossa and neighboring genres coming up, stay tuned! 🙂


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 11, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> I've been in 13" space for so long on my laptop, it's going to be interesting to experiment with all this screen estate


It will really change the way you work! That's what it did for me anyway.


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## davidson (Dec 11, 2021)

Regards LG oled tvs, I've used them for years now and have a 48" with my mac which is on for 16 hours a day and not an ounce of burn-in. The scare mongering is way overhyped, mostly by people who have never even owned an oled!

Wouldn't consider using anything else at this point.

Edit: If you left the youtube logo on the screen (red is the worst culprit) for 24 hours a day at max brightness (I have mine at 50% and its as bright as the sun), then yeah, you'll get some burn in after a few months and you probably deserve it :D


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## Tatiana Gordeeva (Dec 11, 2021)

You're lucky but you're careful too  I would love a bright, contrasted OLED monitor but I stayed away because of what I read in technical reviews everywhere.

LG, no doubt in a move to reassure customers, have extended their G1 warranty to 5 years recently (parts and labor) but no mention of burn-in:


> _The company does not call out burn-in or image retention in the document that is posted on its official website._











LG's 2021 OLED TVs in the US has an Extended Warranty of Up to Five Years, But Under Some Conditions


LG's premium OLED TVs now come with a five-year warranty, so any defects within that time period will be fixed free of charge.




www.techtimes.com




But before burn-in was explicitly _excluded_ from the warranty coverage afaik.

OLED phones and tablets do burn-in, usually visible if you look at top, where the battery indicator is, even though they're normally ON much less often than TV's.


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