# Mixing electric guitar with orchestral trailer music??



## eross2121 (May 8, 2018)

I have a mixing question. I am trying to mixing high gain electric guitar, with strings/ brass and synth instrumenst in trailer music. 
I have two things that happen. I EQ the guitar and it either falls to far back, or It sits on top of the rest and or overpowers the rest of the mix. 
Do you have any tips or trick for this anybody?


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## fixxer49 (May 8, 2018)

eross2121 said:


> I have a mixing question. I am trying to mixing high gain electric guitar, with strings/ brass and synth instrumenst in trailer music.
> I have two things that happen. I EQ the guitar and it either falls to far back, or It sits on top of the rest and or overpowers the rest of the mix.
> Do you have any tips or trick for this anybody?


* without hearing any audio example, I'd say you are most likely over-distorting the guitars + giving it the "smiley-face" eq? roll back the gain and put some mid-range back in. cleaner = bigger.


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## eross2121 (May 8, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> * without hearing any audio example, I'd say you are most likely over-distorting the guitars + giving it the "smiley-face" eq? roll back the gain and put some mid-range back in. cleaner = bigger.


So more of a sad face eq? cool. thanks


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## fixxer49 (May 8, 2018)

eross2121 said:


> So more of a sad face eq? cool. thanks


"trailer music = sad face". ha. jk.


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## TimCox (May 8, 2018)

What fixxer said, guitar is a mid-range instrument in a mix so keeping the mids and rolling off on the bass should gel it in pretty well.

Source: I'm a stubborn guitarist


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## eross2121 (May 8, 2018)

TimCox said:


> What fixxer said, guitar is a mid-range instrument in a mix so keeping the mids and rolling off on the bass should gel it in pretty well.
> 
> Source: I'm a stubborn guitarist


interesting advice guys.Im gonna try it out.


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## Zak Rahman (May 8, 2018)

Just want to echo what people said about keeping the gain down. If you want heavy guitars, I've always found it's best to layer them. Also, make careful EQ changes depending on what else is there.

But one of the most important factors is actually simply orchestration. Electric guitars can fill the roll of many orchestral instruments. If there's too much going on, it will get lost.


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## gsilbers (May 8, 2018)

try and listen to a lot of trailer tracks w electric guitar. ninja tracks does this a lot. 
import into your daw one of those tracks that sounds similar to yours and use it to copy the mix.


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## eross2121 (May 8, 2018)

Zak Rahman said:


> Just want to echo what people said about keeping the gain down. If you want heavy guitars, I've always found it's best to layer them. Also, make careful EQ changes depending on what else is there.
> 
> But one of the most important factors is actually simply orchestration. Electric guitars can fill the roll of many orchestral instruments. If there's too much going on, it will get lost.


yeah, I usually leave the distortion down pretty low, and let the power side of the amp make the tone. 
I think it may be just to much going on. I think i need to either write around the guitar. or cut out certain orchestral instruments


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## eross2121 (May 8, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> try and listen to a lot of trailer tracks w electric guitar. ninja tracks does this a lot.
> import into your daw one of those tracks that sounds similar to yours and use it to copy the mix.


ninja tracks?


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## gsilbers (May 8, 2018)

https://www.ninjatracks.com


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## Zak Rahman (May 8, 2018)

eross2121 said:


> I think it may be just to much going on. I think i need to either write around the guitar. or cut out certain orchestral instruments



I think this will definitely help you. I always try to treat guitars as part of the orchestra (and synths too). So if I'm playing around some palm muted bits, then I need to be very careful with not overloading that frequency range with celli doing low ostinato or something.

It will likely lead to better compositions too, just as you're thinking about it a bit more. At least, these are my experiences thus far


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## ryans (May 8, 2018)

eross2121 said:


> I think it may be just to much going on. I think i need to either write around the guitar. or cut out certain orchestral instruments



I'm going to quote this again  because even without hearing your mix, I'm fairly sure this is your problem...

In my experience, usually when I'm fighting with a mix, it's because the arrangement is bad... this goes for any genre... 

Ryan


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## eross2121 (May 9, 2018)

i ag


ryans said:


> I'm going to quote this again  because even without hearing your mix, I'm fairly sure this is your problem...
> 
> In my experience, usually when I'm fighting with a mix, it's because the arrangement is bad... this goes for any genre...
> 
> Ryan


yep, I think you might be right. i have a lot of cello and guitar fighting with each other. thanks for the tips


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## nas (May 18, 2018)

First and foremost, listen to the orchestration to determine what instruments may be in the name frequency range of your guitar parts. More than likely, you're going to get some frequency masking. High pass filter your guitars - you don't need the full range that is recorded - especially if you have a large orchestration where a lot of the bass frequencies are being taken up by other low freq. instruments. Don't go too far with the HPF though as it can make the guitar sound thin. just get rid of the low frequencies and then dip the low-mid with a peak EQ if you find they clash with other instruments/parts that need to be heard more clearly in that range. 

Use panning.

Don't use too much gain, especially if you're stacking guitar parts or it will be too messy and lack articulation and clarity. Focus on boosting a little on the mid freq around 1.3K and maybe around 3k-5k for a little definition and pick attack if needed. Roll off the very high frequencies as you don't need them and they can also clash with cymbals, hi percussion, strings etc..

You don't need to drench rhythm parts with too much reverb. I know you want it to sound like it's in the same space, but you'll get better results if you use less reverb and shorter decay times, especially if the parts are in a faster tempo. Also EQ your reverbs - HPF frequencies lower than say 120 HZ and perhaps LPF higher freq. if needed.

These are basic guidelines to try out. A lot is dependent on the Gtr parts themselves, the orchestration, and your own personal taste.


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## bap_la_so_1 (May 20, 2018)

Depends on what kind of music you are after
If the song focus is the orchestration, leaving the guitars darker than usual usually helps. Automating volume between sections also help when changing dynamics in the song


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## Uncle Peter (May 20, 2018)

eross2121 said:


> I have a mixing question. I am trying to mixing high gain electric guitar, with strings/ brass and synth instrumenst in trailer music.
> I have two things that happen. I EQ the guitar and it either falls to far back, or It sits on top of the rest and or overpowers the rest of the mix.
> Do you have any tips or trick for this anybody?



Rhythm or lead? Either way to make room - double track, pan hard left and right. Have the orchestra 'in the middle'
Really depends on the instruments that are playing in the orchestra - but broad brush - I'd have a low cut - remove the mud, and focus on the hearing the mids.


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## wst3 (May 20, 2018)

pretty solid advice so far!

Distortion adds harmonics, which makes the guitar take up a bigger portion of the audible spectrum, so it fights with more instruments. So you want to shape the distortion, with the choice of fuzz box, amp settings, or (dare I say it?) cut filters.

The low end of the guitar doesn't really add a whole lot (most of the time, it depends on the context of course) so using a high pass filter can be a big help.

Placement can solve the problem too, sometimes instantly. Try double tracking and panning to the extremes, as mentioned earlier, or just use a single mono track and place it somewhere that it doesn't interfere.

When I think of electric guitar with orchestra the first name that pops to mind is Michael Kamen. Check out some of his albums, specifically "Edge of Darkness" and Concerto for Electric Guitar". The cool thing about these tracks is that the guitar sort of weaves from background to foreground. The music itself probably isn't for everyone, but the technique is brilliant.

EDIT - just found a video for the Concerto, which I am now listening to (yes, too lazy to go find the CD at the moment). Thanks for the reminder!!!


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## dgburns (May 20, 2018)

Don’t overthink it. 

I use heavy guitar as a support instrument in heavy dense orchestrations. So even if you use it but it isn’t the thing that gathers attention, you def notice it when it’s muted. Just like low end sine bass.

I’d also tend towards more modern sounds with plenty of life to them. Distortion tends to muddy things up. I also prefer 8 strg guitars as the extended low end of the B and F# strings puts it in the cello range.

Maybe also think about what you want the guitar to bring out from what you have already. If you want that heavy influence, aka Metallica meets Orchestra, then put them front and centre, loud and proud. If you just want to dust up the string short strokes with a bit of meat behind them, then feather the tracks under the strings. If the role is higher register, it’s ok to really roll up the bottom out of the guitars. So think of the usef first, then mix them into that role. 

There is no such thing as a democratic mix, make the effort to allow something to be upfront and other elements to simply support. Guitar in orchestra can be either role imho.


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## eross2121 (Jun 11, 2018)

really great advice guys. thanks. yes panning left and right, and knocking of just a little low end let’s it nuzzle
down in the mix much better. thanks


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## enyawg (Jun 11, 2018)

I go more for the clean tones and record loud... listen to Richie Blackmore’s recording with London Symphony Orchestra. No square wave distortion processor... just clean with sustain to burn.
If adding too much distortion, to my ears, the guitar gets thinner and distant. 
Cleaner tones are so much easier to mix with orchestra arangements too! 
Good preamps like Neve, API or Cranesong can help a lot with the mix balance.


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