# Booking an Orchestra for Promo purposes



## IvanP (May 1, 2012)

Hi!

I was thinking of updating my lame reel with a proper, live symphonic collage. 

I am thinking of booking a very short session with a European Film Orchestra, aka Prague or Kiev, and would try to close a deal for half a session with a full orchestra (2 WWs - or 3...do you think it's worth it?-) and the other half with a chamber orchestra or a reduced string ensemble. I was also thinking of conducting it so I could also save on the conductor's fee. 

The point is to try and assemble a proper 5-7 minute, live, orchestral reel that could allow me, meanwhile, to get closer to some better orchestration, conducting and composing gigs, which I am struggling to get at the moment with the crisis and lame, unpowerful marketing. aka...for promo purposes. 

Do you think it could be wiser to write some 30s-1minute max snippet-pieces, featuring different genres (full symphonic, terror, trailer, drama) and then do a collage, or rather to properly record and rehearse two finished pieces? (which I guess it's what I coud achieve with a single session?). 

Thank you guys.

Best regards, 

Iván


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## jamwerks (May 1, 2012)

Hi Ivan,

Give these guys a call http://www.fames-project.com/
Next to London, they are undoubtedly the best. And it's not me who says so, it's the folks who record all over (read the info on the site).
Several top Spanish guys use them also, and you can either go there in person, or do the session via net.

And surprisingly the prices are very low !


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## bryla (May 1, 2012)

I've worked with - and also several top Spanish guys - the East Connection studio in Budapest. They are very flexible in orchestra size and session time.

http://eastconnection.org/

How you break up your demo is up to you, but let me tell you that it's not the conductors fee that is going to tip the budget.

btw I see that the link you provide is to Macedonia, which I have heard very mixed experiences with.


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## Gerd Kaeding (May 1, 2012)

Hello Ivan ,

I don't want to hijack your thread ( ... well, I might do it right now), but I would like to ask if some of you have recorded with the "Moscow Studio Symphony Orchestra" in Moscow ? http://www.orcrecording.com/msso.html


I'm interested in recording very soft and romantic Cues , and I remember that someone that I met by accident on a festival told me that he just recorded something like that with this orchestra from Moscow, and he was very very pleased with the (musical) quality.

( I assume they are far more expensive than orchestras from Budapest, or from Macedonia. )

So , if some of you know some anectodes concerning that orchestra , I'd love to hear it.

Best
Gerd


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## IvanP (May 1, 2012)

Thank you, guys, for your great suggestions  

@Jamwerks: I will! Thank you for the suggestions. I will ask Arnau and Alfons as well, great guys!

@Bryla: I know, but conductor's fee would give me the possibility of going in place instead of doing it remote...not to mention the fun!! Although I agree that it would be better to leave the baton to someone who already knows the orchestra...But did I mention the fun? :mrgreen: 

@Gerd: No problem, mate 

What about 2WWs VS 3 (per family)? Is it worth it? I've recorded only once with 3...everybody says that with 2 balance is quite set, assuming you orchestrated well, but when doing it bigger, even with a solid orchestration, there are balance issues = time. 

And what about snippets VS completed pieces? Any advantages / drawbacks?

Thanks!

Iván


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## windshore (May 1, 2012)

I hope you're a very good orchestrator and copyist. The copying fee for this could be one of your 2 biggest costs. And if you're trying to do a lot in one session, you can't afford mistakes.

For your purposes you should consider using someone like Hans to put live strings on a your pieces.


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## Daryl (May 1, 2012)

windshore @ Tue May 01 said:


> I hope you're a very good orchestrator and copyist. The copying fee for this could be one of your 2 biggest costs. And if you're trying to do a lot in one session, you can't afford mistakes.


If you type the score properly in Sibelius, the copying bill will be hardly anything. Even the printing bill is relatively small these days.

D


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## IvanP (May 1, 2012)

Daryl @ Tue May 01 said:


> windshore @ Tue May 01 said:
> 
> 
> > I hope you're a very good orchestrator and copyist. The copying fee for this could be one of your 2 biggest costs. And if you're trying to do a lot in one session, you can't afford mistakes.
> ...



Thank you, guys. 

I write everything on Sibelius, so hopefully that shouldn't be much of a problem...I'm far from being the best proofreader available, in all honesty, and definitely not the fastest one, but I need to save as much money as possible, so I'll be doing everything I am supposed to know by myself 8)


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## Daryl (May 1, 2012)

IvanP @ Tue May 01 said:


> I write everything on Sibelius, so hopefully that shouldn't be much of a problem...I'm far from being the best proofreader available, in all honesty, and definitely not the fastest one, but I need to save as much money as possible, so I'll be doing everything I am supposed to know by myself 8)


OK, I would say that assuming that your orchestration skills are good enough, and the music prep is up to standard, the next think you should worry about is who is going to produce your music, if you are conducting? I am an extremely experienced conductor, yet I still pay someone to produce my sessions. Once you have the cans on and that dratted click going in your ears, it is really difficult to make decisions on what takes were the cleanest/best performance etc. Obviously with enough takes you can choose afterwards, but doing 2 or 3 safety takes wastes a lot of recording time, and is pretty much demoralising for the musicians, particularly if you can't tell them what was wrong with the previous take, because you didn't really hear it properly. :wink: 

D


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## Cinesamples (May 1, 2012)

Demo rate in Los Angeles is $30 per hour, as long as you book more than 30 musicians. And you can call a 1 hour. You don't need to call a 3 hour (as is required in other situations)

Drop Noah a line and he can get you started.

As a matter of fact, if there is enough interest, we can book a whole day with an orchestra at Warner Bros Studios, and get a bunch of you guys to record stuff for your demo reels. We can stream the whole thing live to everyone participating.

http://hollywoodscoring.com

Mike


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## Cinesamples (May 1, 2012)

And if you want, all you would have to deliver is an mp3 of your piece, and a messy midi file. We clean up the midi and turn it into a score.


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## IvanP (May 2, 2012)

Thanks, Mike, I will contact him 

Thks for the suggestion, 

What would you say is the average amount of time expected to be recorded with the LA musicians per hour (assuming an standard, symphonic film music work)? I assume the musicians would be picked from the same pool for Demo purposes as if it was a "real" OST recording, wouldn't they?

Thks,

Iván


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## IvanP (May 2, 2012)

Daryl @ Tue May 01 said:


> OK, I would say that assuming that your orchestration skills are good enough, and the music prep is up to standard, the next think you should worry about is who is going to produce your music, if you are conducting? I am an extremely experienced conductor, yet I still pay someone to produce my sessions. Once you have the cans on and that dratted click going in your ears, it is really difficult to make decisions on what takes were the cleanest/best performance etc. Obviously with enough takes you can choose afterwards, but doing 2 or 3 safety takes wastes a lot of recording time, and is pretty much demoralising for the musicians, particularly if you can't tell them what was wrong with the previous take, because you didn't really hear it properly. :wink:
> 
> D



Great advice, Daryl, thks. 

I don't think I would use a click track on this one, since it would be for demo purposes...hopefully that would leave musicians with more ease performance wise, and to me enough air to listen to what should be corrected. 

But yes, I agree that an in house conductor should prove more efficient than a guest star 8) 

I'll just check on the fee...

Also, anyone has used any remote recordings? Unless it would be for an LA session, with a quality you can expect, I am a bit reluctant of doing it for European ones...not sure how good one would listen from the home studio and be able to tune / correct things properly.
I have a friend composer who told me that a "certain" Caucasian orchestra he recorded with used lame musicians for his session (someone revealed to him they were students) and if he wouldn't have been there to complain and ask for a change, his soundtrack would have been trashed.


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## Daryl (May 2, 2012)

IvanP @ Wed May 02 said:


> I don't think I would use a click track on this one, since it would be for demo purposes...hopefully that would leave musicians with more ease performance wise, and to me enough air to listen to what should be corrected.
> 
> But yes, I agree that an in house conductor should prove more efficient than a guest star 8)


If there is no click track, you definitely need an experienced conductor. Many composers can pretend to conduct when there is a click track for the orchestra to play to, but take that away and it is often a disaster. :shock: 

D


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## IvanP (May 2, 2012)

LOL...that statement made my day :lol: 

I would create a click track just in case 

I have studied 4 years of conducting but I'm "still" far from being Pekka Salonen 8) ...and yep, you just made a point on confident composers hahaha


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## John Rodd (May 16, 2012)

generally speaking... I would recommend a click track.... it makes editing much more possible.... and with MANY orchestras around the world... there will be editing.

:shock: 

and...

I have recorded orchestras in many places in the world.... and have mixed & mastered live orchestral recordings from just about every place in the world that you can imagine.... and my general advice would be: be sure to know the capabilities of your orchestra, and do NOT write above that level.

For example... if you take a fast, action, John Williams type score to certain orchestras (I wont say what ones) .... they will do very poorly with it, and you will be very, very unhappy with the results. Take a lush, soft, romantic score to that same orchestra(s) and you'll be quite happy.

As as many composers as possible, and do a lot of research. :wink: 

cheers

John


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## IvanP (May 16, 2012)

Great advice, John, thank you


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## John Rodd (May 21, 2012)

IvanP @ Wed May 16 said:


> Great advice, John, thank you



You are very welcome.


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## christianhowes (May 30, 2012)

Using remote overdubbed tracks with a scaled down section can work very well and this may be the answer if your budget is the main issue.

Here's an example of a string section (24 tracks) combined through overdubs, using only 7 players..

http://soundcloud.com/christianhowesstr ... game-score


Christian Howes
http://christianhowes.com/christian-how ... /ensembles /


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