# Audio Interface is dying, questions about budget replacements



## Mornats (Nov 30, 2022)

My Focusrite Forte interface is dying. Without going into too much detail it keeps malfunctioning, shutting off and weirdly, prevents my PC from booting when it's connected. It's discontinued so no chance of support.

I'm on a tight budget of ideally, nothing but that won't get me anything. So I'm trawling the budget end - £200 or less. Focusite Scarlet 2i2 3rd gen, Motu M2, Presonus Studio 26c, Audient id14 mkii are contenders to give you an idea.

So, my question is, at this end of the scale, are they all much of a muchness? My main considerations are latency for using virtual instruments, TRS outputs (x2), I should only need 2 inputs (XLR) and nothing fancy pre-amp wise. I'm on Windows 10. If they're all the same I'll probably look for a bargain or base the decision on the included software (Studio One constantly tempts me).


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## Soundbed (Nov 30, 2022)

If you don't need MIDI and want TRS the Audient gets very high reviews (I don't have one).

I have the MOTU and it's pretty darn good (don't clip the mic inputs though; they don't gracefully or musically "clip" when pushed, like my Digidesign 003 did). It has MIDI but only RCA. I'm on Mac. Windows compatibility might be slightly different -- I think you need to download a driver. On Mac it is plug and play. It has good "podcast" style controls too so you can record and save the audio in and the computer sounds at the same time. Not sure if the Scarlett or the others have that.

I didn't go for the Scarlett but I got a used Clarett2Pre and if I had to do it over again I'd probably stick with the MOTU M2 (I don't use it for audio out, though, so...) I had some issues with the USB only self-powering of the Calrett, sent it back, and it still had a bit of an issue, so I always plug it in to the wall as well. It's supposed to be able to get power from the USB but mine never worked, The Scarlett may not have the same issue because it's newer.

I'm guessing the Presonus is good too. I always consult Julian Krause before making these decisions:


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## paulmatthew (Nov 30, 2022)

They all apparently have their own little issues but I've been happy with my Focusrite and Motu interfaces. My only complaint about the Motu is they don't seem to update their drivers often and with Focusrite the pots are a little the pot on my main volume gets crackly when turning it and needs to be cleaned every so often. Not deal breakers by any means. Sound quality is excellent with both Focusrite and Motu.


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## Pier (Nov 30, 2022)

I'm very happy with my Motu M4 on both Windows and macOS. I think the Motu M2 is probably the best in your price range.

Audient is also excellent in terms of audio quality but the drivers on Windows are not great. I had an issue with my iD4 mk1 where it would disconnect randomly. I don't know if this issue has been solved in newer models.

If you use headphones it's worth checking out which interfaces have the best amps. Check those Julian Krause videos!


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## Pier (Nov 30, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> (don't clip the mic inputs though; they don't gracefully or musically "clip" when pushed, like my Digidesign 003 did)


Hmm this is standard digital clipping.

Maybe the Digidesign had some analog clipping before hitting the AD clipping?


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## davidgary73 (Nov 30, 2022)

Audient iD14 is great and i'm using it. Check out Solid State Logic SSL 2 Audio Interface.


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## danielh02 (Nov 30, 2022)

Another vote for the Audient iD14. Using it on an M1 Mac and it's been great. Read a lot of good reviews before I bought it and don't regret it.


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## AceAudioHQ (Nov 30, 2022)

Behringer uphoria umc202hd/umc204hd is pretty solid, better reviews in in-depth tests than most others in its price class, I have the 204hd, if it broke, I would probably just buy another one


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## Sunny Schramm (Nov 30, 2022)

Motu M2 🥰 

Great hardware, great driver- and firmware-support, amazing sound!


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## LA68 (Nov 30, 2022)

Personally, I think it's worth supporting companies that keep their products usable for a long time. MOTU, RME, ESI, Yamaha / Steinberg...Maybe some others, idk. That also makes it possible to buy older, used interfaces - sometimes for very little money...Maybe an option for you?

If that's not a concern you have, the Behringers AceAudioHQ mentioned seem to be good value for money, with decent drivers for Win.


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## Soundbed (Nov 30, 2022)

Pier said:


> Hmm this is standard digital clipping.
> 
> Maybe the Digidesign had some analog clipping before hitting the AD clipping?


I’d be really interested in doing a shootout with my umpteen budget interfaces. The 003 had some great musical clipping. I could overdrive it singing and it could go on vinyl presses. The M2 has the “standard” I’d rather hear nails on a chalkboard digital distortion. I wonder how many of my others do this. I have an Apogee, the Clarett, a Yamaha/Steinberg, some older ones. I do wonder if, like you mention, the 003 had analog clipping, or if the A/D did some “musical clipping” I’ve read about. Not in the studio now.


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## Soundbed (Nov 30, 2022)

LA68 said:


> Personally, I think it's worth supporting companies that keep their products usable for a long time. MOTU, RME, ESI, Yamaha / Steinberg


On this point, I have some very old MOTU and Yamaha/Steinberg hardware that is still supported and very much appreciate that. I was shocked when I found drivers from MOTU for something that was built in the year 1512. I was only 18 when I bought it.


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## Pier (Nov 30, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> I found drivers from MOTU for something that was built in the year 1512


Are you like a vampire or sumthin?


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## Soundbed (Nov 30, 2022)

Pier said:


> Are you like a vampire or sumthin?


After the purchase, I recall that, following the death of Svante Nilsson, Eric Trolle was elected the new Regent of Sweden. He was, however, ousted after only six months in favour of Sten Sture the Younger. Turbulent times.


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## Mornats (Dec 1, 2022)

Thank you all for your input, I'm going to dig deeper into these suggestions. One thing I forgot to mention is that I need it to drive 250ohm DT 880 pro headphones which I've found some can do quite well and others can't.

ID14 mkii is a current front runner but I need to consider it's cheaper sibling the ID4.


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## devonmyles (Dec 1, 2022)

I've been using Steinberg UR's for a few years now. I 've just upgraded to the UR22C. Rock solid with zero problems (as was my previous version).









UR22C: The Perfect Portable Interface


The UR22C brings you amazing sound quality in a remarkably compact, tough and versatile package for composing and recording anywhere.




www-origin.steinberg.net













Steinberg UR22C review


A rugged interface packed with features that you'd normally find on much more expensive models




www.musicradar.com


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## danielh02 (Dec 1, 2022)

Mornats said:


> Thank you all for your input, I'm going to dig deeper into these suggestions. One thing I forgot to mention is that I need it to drive 250ohm DT 880 pro headphones which I've found some can do quite well and others can't.
> 
> ID14 mkii is a current front runner but I need to consider it's cheaper sibling the ID4.


I have the DT880's with the ID14 and have no issues with volume. The only negative is the output gets reset to zero when the unit is powered down, so you have to dial it up again when it's powered up again.


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## Pier (Dec 1, 2022)

Mornats said:


> Thank you all for your input, I'm going to dig deeper into these suggestions. One thing I forgot to mention is that I need it to drive 250ohm DT 880 pro headphones which I've found some can do quite well and others can't.
> 
> ID14 mkii is a current front runner but I need to consider it's cheaper sibling the ID4.


One thing to note is that driving headphones is more than the gain. My iD4 mk1 could perfectly well drive the 250ohm DT990 in terms of gain, but I swear the sound with the Motu M4 in comparison is night and day.

If you need to drive headphones really check the measurements by Julian Krause before deciding. That was really one of the factors that pushed me towards the Motu vs other interfaces. Also the ASR review:









Motu M4 Audio Interface Review


This is a review of Motu M4 4x4 audio interface (DAC and ADC). It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $220. The enclosure is heavy gauge metal and sturdy: The front inputs are for microphones with higher gain. For my testing I used the Line in (and out) in the back: For testing I...




www.audiosciencereview.com





BTW I'm not saying the iD14 mk2 cannot drive your headphones properly. I really don't know.


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## danielh02 (Dec 1, 2022)

Pier said:


> One thing to note is that driving headphones is more than the gain. My iD4 mk1 could perfectly well drive the 250ohm DT990 in terms of gain, but I swear the sound with the Motu M4 in comparison is night and day.
> 
> If you need to drive headphones really check the measurements by Julian Krause before deciding. That was really one of the factors that pushed me towards the Motu vs other interfaces. Also the ASR review:
> 
> ...



Good advice!


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## sostenuto (Dec 1, 2022)

Pier said:


> One thing to note is that driving headphones is more than the gain. My iD4 mk1 could perfectly well drive the 250ohm DT990 in terms of gain, but I swear the sound with the Motu M4 in comparison is night and day.
> 
> If you need to drive headphones really check the measurements by Julian Krause before deciding. That was really one of the factors that pushed me towards the Motu vs other interfaces. Also the ASR review:
> 
> ...


600 ohms here _ using Schitt Audio - Asgard Headphone Amp. 
Posted grumbles earlier re. difficulties comparing specs of most Audio I/F(s) versus many dedicated Headphone Amps. Would like something beyond just cranking output to accpetable level _ with no clue about impact on relevant audio specs /qualty. 
(2) older Focusrite Saffire Pro14 to be replaced with planned PC upgrade. Not comfy yet with I/F headphone specs.


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## Pier (Dec 1, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> 600 ohms here _ using Headphone Amp. Posted grumbles earlier re. difficulties comparing specs of most Audio I/F(s) versus many dedicated Headphone Amps. Would like something beyond just cranking output to accpetable level _ with no clue about impact on relevant audio specs.
> (2) older Focusrite Saffire Pro14 to be replaced with planned PC upgrade. Not comfy yet with headfone specs.


I just look at Julian's chart for as much green as possible 😂

He posts his measurements in all his reviews. These are the latest ones:


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## cacophonix (Dec 1, 2022)

Although I use RME for me, I would go for Audient (bought one for my elder son, and use 2 in the music conservatory where I teach) and recommend there products to all my students


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## ZeroZero (Dec 1, 2022)

i love focusrite. When I get a new audio device, the first thing I listen to is the sound of their silence. In a bad device it’s like a bad mic, there is a conditioning of the silence, a kind synthetic silence. I don’t get this with focusrite, just a touch of warmth. Second Focusrite service is outstanding. They do things like remote in to help you with software issues. I had an old FireWire device that was causing some issues, five years in, they took it in, put it on their test benches for a week. Totally free of charge.

Z


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## Mornats (Dec 1, 2022)

Sorry that I've been a bit quiet on this thread, I've been busy at work today.

So here's where I'm at now. I did a bit more troubleshooting on my Focusrite Forte. It seems it doesn't like being plugged into USB 3.0 ports so I tried it with a USB 2.0 port and got the same malfunction error. Then I thought aha, I've just moved house and everything's in boxes and there's a couple of power adapters in the box so maybe I'm using the wrong one. So I put the other one in, the lights on the interface flickered, died and smoke came out of the back. So that's that. IT couldn't handle being unplugged from the PC and plugged in again a week or so later and now my troubleshooting has killed it for good. So I definitely need a new interface. Focusrite discontinued the Forte a year after I bought it with no driver updates after that so I'm ditching them. I know their support is good, but the Forte was as dead to them as mine is to me now.

So, on to new ones. This was an interesting video.



My conclusion from this is that the Audient comes out as the best, but I just think that "best sounding" isn't what I need, but the more neutral sound of the M2 is. I don't want colouring in my audio interface, that's what my Asus Xonar Essence is for. The M2 nailed it for latency which is a top priority for me. Headphone output for high impedance headphones was good too. And from comments above, drivers on the Audient on Windows don't seem great (the reviewer was on a Mac so this never came up). But also, the headphone output of the Audient, which appears great, is only available over USB-C and I only have USB-A on my 2014 Asus Maximum Ranger motherboard.

So Moto M2 is top of my list. But I had to take a look at the cheaper Presonus as a) it's cheaper - £106 compared to around £175 for the M2 and b) it comes with Studio One Artist and I've got my eye on Studio One 6. However, headphone output isn't great for my DT 880 Pros. So I'm off to stalk M2's to see if anyone has a lingering Black Friday sale...


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## tony10000 (Dec 5, 2022)

AceAudioHQ said:


> Behringer uphoria umc202hd/umc204hd is pretty solid, better reviews in in-depth tests than most others in its price class, I have the 204hd, if it broke, I would probably just buy another one


I use a UMC204HD as well and it is rock solid, affordable, and feature rich for the price.


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## Mornats (Dec 16, 2022)

Anyone know if any UK retailers or online stores put these things (Motu M2) on sale over Christmas or in the January sales? I'd like one asap but would kick myself for missing out on any savings.


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## GtrString (Dec 16, 2022)

You can't really go wrong with soundcards right now, most of them are good, so just pick to your needs/ specs. Regarding midi latency, I've often preferred a soundcard with midi in.


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## ZeroZero (Dec 16, 2022)

I always use DV27/7 otherwise know as Music Store. A Huge company with very keen prices and great service. They have a store in Romford and you can pretty much get solid advice from them. Been with them 25 years now. Focusrite is my goto


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## muk (Dec 16, 2022)

Depending on your system you could also look at used RME interfaces. They are top in terms of stability and low latency (best drivers). Also they are very durable. I just bought an RME Multiface including a pci to pci-e adapter for 80$.. The interface works like a charm. You can't beat that set of features and drivers at that price.


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## ptram (Dec 16, 2022)

The audio interface that I have in studio is the Steinberg UR824. When new it had an incredible quality/price ratio. The software is still compatible with the most current operating systems, ten years after. I hope to be able to keep it still for years, because I like it very much.

On the paper, the replacement interface (UR816C) is slightly worse, with worse D/A converters and one ADAT port less. At the same time, it seems, by reading the reviews, that the audio shortcoming is not resulting in a bad-sounding interface. It might be that the older specs were even excessive.

What I've not liked is in the software: it has not worked flawlessly with my older Mac mini, but I have nothing bad to say about compatibility with the Mac Pro 2013. And the remote control panel is both ugly looking, and not particularly usable. It does its job, without using too much grace.

I don't know how this line compares with other current products. Something that I would recommend, in your choice, is not to rely on a notorious test often cited, with a comparison made on numbers out of the human perception. We are talking about musical instruments, not atomic clocks.

Paolo


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## Mornats (Dec 16, 2022)

ptram said:


> I don't know how this line compares with other current products. Something that I would recommend, in your choice, is not to rely on a notorious test often cited, with a comparison made on numbers out of the human perception. We are talking about musical instruments, not atomic clocks.


Wise words! One of the comparison videos had audio clips of recording bass (and other things but I'm a bass player so that stood out for me) into the interface so you could judge yourself how it sounded. That made much more sense than any of the numbers.


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## Sombreuil (Dec 16, 2022)

All the interfaces listed would perform well. Now, what I can tell is that MOTU on Windows and/or AMD has been a nightmare for many people, just so you know.

Whether it's the Presonus, Audient, MOTU, etc, they're all pretty much the same, it's on you to see which features you want (loopback, etc) and the software bundle you'd get.


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## Mornats (Dec 16, 2022)

Sombreuil said:


> All the interfaces listed would perform well. Now, what I can tell is that MOTU on Windows and/or AMD has been a nightmare for many people, just so you know.
> 
> Whether it's the Presonus, Audient, MOTU, etc, they're all pretty much the same, it's on you to see which features you want (loopback, etc) and the software bundle you'd get.


Is that just Windows PCs using AMD CPUs/GPUs or Windows in general? I have Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU and really don't want issues.


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## Sombreuil (Dec 16, 2022)

Mornats said:


> Is that just Windows PCs using AMD CPUs/GPUs or Windows in general? I have Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU and really don't want issues.


One or the other, both is even worse from what I've read. You can probably find more information about that somewhere, that shouldn't be too difficult.


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## Mornats (Dec 16, 2022)

Thanks for the heads-up, I'll check it out before buying.


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## Tremendouz (Dec 16, 2022)

I've personally been happy with my UMC202HD which I got for 65 euros. Sadly it's gone up in price but it's still under 90€ it seems.

UMC204HD has some extra features for extra cost such as MIDI input


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## John Longley (Dec 16, 2022)

Soundbed said:


> On this point, I have some very old MOTU and Yamaha/Steinberg hardware that is still supported and very much appreciate that. I was shocked when I found drivers from MOTU for something that was built in the year 1512. I was only 18 when I bought it.


I was still running a 424 based rig (with several interfaces) a few years ago. It holds up.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 19, 2022)

Mornats said:


> Thanks for the heads-up, I'll check it out before buying.


You'd be taking a bigger risk with MOTU + Windows, over time, given their history.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 19, 2022)

muk said:


> Depending on your system you could also look at used RME interfaces. They are top in terms of stability and low latency (best drivers). Also they are very durable. I just bought an RME Multiface including a pci to pci-e adapter for 80$.. The interface works like a charm. You can't beat that set of features and drivers at that price.


One could read your post as if RME had the "top" "low latency" - as in, the lowest latency. I'd say that's pretty much true for USB interfaces, though some others are competitive. But they don't have the lowest latency drivers... that's where something like the Quantum 2626 comes in via Thunderbolt.


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## sostenuto (Dec 19, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> One could read your post as if RME had the "top" "low latency" - as in, the lowest latency. I'd say that's pretty much true for USB interfaces, though some others are competitive. But they don't have the lowest latency drivers... that's where something like the Quantum 2626 comes in via Thunderbolt.


Will Quantum 2626 run 'adequately' _ at lower speeds /other specs _ into Desktop PC USB 2 (with USB C adapter) ? 
Would add now, for later PC build, with Thunderbolt.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 19, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Will Quantum 2626 run 'adequately' _ at lower speeds /other specs _ into Desktop PC USB 2 (with USB C adapter) ?
> Would add now, for later PC build, with Thunderbolt.


A great question I unfortunately don't know the answer to. In theory, anything Thunderbolt SHOULD be backward compatible. But audio interfaces are finnicky things. You'd need to find an owner of said interface. Maybe on Gearspace?

PreSonus don't have the quality of drivers that RME are known to have.

An RME is probably the best overall, with really low latency and really stable drivers and support.


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## sostenuto (Dec 19, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> A great question I unfortunately don't know the answer to. In theory, anything Thunderbolt SHOULD be backward compatible. But audio interfaces are finnicky things. You'd need to find an owner of said interface. Maybe on Gearspace?
> 
> PreSonus don't have the quality of drivers that RME are known to have.
> 
> An RME is probably the best overall, with really low latency and really stable drivers and support.


THX much ! Had line on good 2626, but Presonus says no _ must have MB with Thunderbolt support.
RME remains top of short list, for now. 
Staggering - what (home build) updated Win11 Pro DAW Desktop PC is gonna cost !!  🥴


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## Pier (Dec 19, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> One could read your post as if RME had the "top" "low latency" - as in, the lowest latency. I'd say that's pretty much true for USB interfaces, though some others are competitive. But they don't have the lowest latency drivers... that's where something like the Quantum 2626 comes in via Thunderbolt.


Yeah but in practice does that distinction matter?

Honestly I'm very skeptical anyone can perceive the difference between 1ms and 5ms. And if they truly can (demonstrated by proper blind AB tests) does it matter? If you have a speaker 3 meters from you the latency is already around 10ms.

Don't get me wrong, the Quantum seems like a great product but if anyone has the budget IMO they should totally go with RME. It's really one of the top brands in driver reliability, conversion, etc, in this price range.

Edit:

Sorry, I was writing this and hadn't read your following comments.


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## Mornats (Dec 19, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> You'd be taking a bigger risk with MOTU + Windows, over time, given their history.


Yeah that's the steer I'm getting. My new favourite is now the Audient ID14 mkii.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 19, 2022)

Pier said:


> Yeah but in practice does that distinction matter?
> 
> Honestly I'm very skeptical anyone can perceive the difference between 1ms and 5ms. And if they truly can (demonstrated by proper blind AB tests) does it matter? If you have a speaker 3 meters from you the latency is already around 10ms.
> 
> ...


I only ever use headphones, and that may be one reason I can "feel" the difference. Can't hear it. I also can't compare 1ms vs 5ms, though! If using hardware and no plugins, I can get my Clarett4pre down to 5ms round trip, and I can feel that vs. 7.5ms or higher. 

But I'm satisfied with the Clarett latency, though, of course, would like lower latency. Just not enough to spend 2x the amount to get the same or less I/O.


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## Pier (Dec 19, 2022)

Mornats said:


> Yeah that's the steer I'm getting. My new favourite is now the Audient ID14 mkii.


Personally I didn't have a great experience on Windows with my Audient iD4 mk1.

I mean, it's totally possible Audient have improved their driver game in the past years, but in general I'd trust MOTU over Audient any day.

MOTU has been in software and digital audio since the 90s IIRC whereas Audient released their first interface in 2013.


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## Pier (Dec 19, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I only ever use headphones, and that may be one reason I can "feel" the difference. Can't hear it. I also can't compare 1ms vs 5ms, though! If using hardware and no plugins, I can get my Clarett4pre down to 5ms round trip, and I can feel that vs. 7.5ms or higher.


Lies!!!

I'm joking 

Honestly I've never seen anyone passing a proper AB test regarding very low latency which is why I'm so skeptical.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 19, 2022)

Pier said:


> Lies!!!
> 
> I'm joking
> 
> Honestly I've never seen anyone passing a proper AB test regarding very low latency which is why I'm so skeptical.


That would be interesting. If using other people's gear, you'd probably be less likely to feel the difference than your own.

I suspect it would be possible to feel the difference, but it'd be negligible, unless maybe you're a seasoned professional _______ (e.g., guitar player, vocalist, etc.).

10ms vs 5ms is very noticeable to me, though 10ms is "ok". Doesn't prevent me from plonking keys on the Keystep 37. Closer to 5ms feels more "lively" where my MIDI controller starts to feel like it's a coherent, integrated keybed in the synth. That "tightness" is definitely desirable. I've been toying with connecting the Keystep 37 via MIDI insetad of USB to see if it feels faster, as well. But that'd be 2 cables attached to it then, which would be even more annoying.

A top-end RME is on my "someday wishlist," perhaps when my Clarett4pre starts to die. But I'd also need more I/O at that point, which is even more $$. Trading up for similar features and moderate improvements is of questionable value. Who knows, maybe by then Focusrite will have tuned their drivers even further, or gone full USB-C. That's my hope: that the whole market will have shifted to full USB-C with even lower latency by the time I need another new interface.


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## Pier (Dec 19, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> 10ms vs 5ms is very noticeable to me, though 10ms is "ok". Doesn't prevent me from plonking keys on the Keystep 37. Closer to 5ms feels more "lively" where my MIDI controller starts to feel like it's a coherent, integrated keybed in the synth. That "tightness" is definitely desirable. I've been toying with connecting the Keystep 37 via MIDI insetad of USB to see if it feels faster, as well. But that'd be 2 cables attached to it then, which would be even more annoying.


I'm pretty sure this is a placebo since you're personally setting up the latency. The brain is very powerful in creating illusions, specially with sound.

Tell someone else to change the buffer size and do 20 tests between 5ms and 10ms. To be able to claim you can perceive it, you should get +90% of the answers right. Anything closer to 50% would be just random.


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## dunamisstudio (Dec 19, 2022)

AceAudioHQ said:


> Behringer uphoria umc202hd/umc204hd is pretty solid, better reviews in in-depth tests than most others in its price class, I have the 204hd, if it broke, I would probably just buy another one


I have a Behringer Uphoria UMC404HD, and had no issues either. I needed something to use until I could save up for the new Neve.


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## Mornats (Dec 19, 2022)

Pier said:


> Personally I didn't have a great experience on Windows with my Audient iD4 mk1.
> 
> I mean, it's totally possible Audient have improved their driver game in the past years, but in general I'd trust MOTU over Audient any day.
> 
> MOTU has been in software and digital audio since the 90s IIRC whereas Audient released their first interface in 2013.


Argh! Just when I thought I'd settled on one 

Having the interface work without issues is a key thing for me. My Focusrite was a bloody nightmare if I ever unplugged it. As I mentioned in my first post, my attempts to troubleshoot it ended up killing it altogether. 

I know any of them can have issues and sometimes it's just down to luck.

Another contender is the Universal Audio Volt 276. I quite like the idea of the inbuilt compressor even though my main use will be for VIs.


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## fakemaxwell (Dec 19, 2022)

Mornats said:


> Having the interface work without issues is a key thing for me.


The most broken of broken records but... if this is your key issue, find a used RME Babyface.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 19, 2022)

fakemaxwell said:


> The most broken of broken records but... if this is your key issue, find a used RME Babyface.


As long as the weird form factor works for the person.

That’s why I don’t have it. Bonus was that my Clarett4pre (which has been flawless in functionality) also has more I/O that I ended up making use of down the road with hardware synths and fx.


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## Mornats (Dec 19, 2022)

fakemaxwell said:


> The most broken of broken records but... if this is your key issue, find a used RME Babyface.


It did cross my mind but they're still pricier than my budget and there's not many about. I do feel that any interface should just work but that's not the reality. Top of the feature list should be "it works" surely? 

Behringers have been mentioned favourably here and I do like the ethos of the company. However they seem to score low in headphone output and I need to drive 250ohm DT 880 Pros quite well.

I think it's possibly still a shootout between the Audient ID14 mkii and the Motu M2 in terms of what may cause me less grief on Win 10.


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## Pier (Dec 19, 2022)

Mornats said:


> Another contender is the Universal Audio Volt 276. I quite like the idea of the inbuilt compressor even though my main use will be for VIs.


If you mostly need good monitoring with headphones your priority should be the DAC, the headphones amp, and the Windows driver.

Obviously with your budget you can't get it all.

The Julian Krause videos are really the best.


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## Mornats (Dec 19, 2022)

From what I've seen in the many YouTube videos I've watched, the Audient and Motu both seem to have the DAC and headphone amp sorted.

Here's my more thorough thinking of the two.


Latency - Motu M2 seems to win. Will this work out well with an orchestral template? Hopefully.
Sound quality for output - both seem to be excellent. Audient tends to come out on top.
Headphone output - both good. Audient has two headphone outputs but my headphones are 250ohm and 38ohm so I'm not really going to have both pairs plugged in using the same output volume. Audient needs USB-C (which I'd need to buy a USB-C card for) to really boost the headphone output for high impedance headphones. I'll have to see how well it does on USB-A.
Loopback - both have this and I really like the idea of having it.
Software - Audient's control panel software looks really good and having the ability to change the function of the big dial button could be very handy.
Monitor mix control - none on the M2, software controlled on the Audient. I can't recall using it when I had it on an older interface though.
Inputs - both seem great and will outperform any mic I own that I'll plug into them. Should handle my bass via DI from a jack lead and via my pre-amp pedal into an XLR.
Audient can add many more input channels via ADAT. I doubt I'd use more than the two though.
Audient has two extra monitor outputs. They can be sent to a headphone amp which got me interested if I ever want to drive my headphone through one. Or maybe input a clean guitar, send the output out to and effects board and back into the other channel. This may open up doors for me to mess around a bit more.
Both are comparable on price.
I'm tempted to download and install both sets of drivers to see how well they work but I suspect I won't find anything out unless I plug the interface in.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 19, 2022)

Mornats said:


> From what I've seen in the many YouTube videos I've watched, the Audient and Motu both seem to have the DAC and headphone amp sorted.
> 
> Here's my more thorough thinking of the two.
> 
> ...


Many people like Audient's pres (a touch "softer" than, say, Focusrite, which are "crisp").

Do you play instruments live? If not, a little latency won't matter much.


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## Sombreuil (Dec 19, 2022)

It's just a matter of luck or bad luck at this point. Drivers stability is what makes an interface usable and you've probably read both good and bad things about these interfaces.
Buy the one you think suits you the best, see how it works (or not) the first month and make your decision to return it or not based on that.

I'm pretty sure you already know deep inside which one you want to buy, so why not? You won't get a clear answer because there is not, it might work or it might not, sadly the only way to know is to plug the interface into your computer.


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## fakemaxwell (Dec 19, 2022)

Mornats said:


> I'm tempted to download and install both sets of drivers to see how well they work but I suspect I won't find anything out unless I plug the interface in.


This won't do anything. If you're set on Motu vs Audient just flip a coin, buy one, and then return it if you hate it. Or get both and return one.


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## ptsmith (Dec 20, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> You'd be taking a bigger risk with MOTU + Windows, over time, given their history.





vitocorleone123 said:


> One could read your post as if RME had the "top" "low latency" - as in, the lowest latency. I'd say that's pretty much true for USB interfaces, though some others are competitive. But they don't have the lowest latency drivers... that's where something like the Quantum 2626 comes in via Thunderbolt.


This Dawbench chart of RTL suggest that some RME models are the fastest, although the Quantum is also very fast.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 20, 2022)

ptsmith said:


> This Dawbench chart of RTL suggest that some RME models are the fastest, although the Quantum is also very fast.


Quantum has the lowest latency - lower than RME. But isn't the most efficient. Record one instrument and the Quantum will have lower latency. Fill up the ports and start recording, and RME will power through. Overall, RME has the better driver, which is what's showing up in the chart.

Also, supposedly, due to chip shortages, TB audio interfaces are going away. In other words, the Quantum 2626 may be EOL. Which, by default, will revert the crown to RME I believe.

I know RME fans want it to be the fastest. It isn't* (see above). But it will probably be again. But fans can rest assured RME creates better overall interfaces... more "professional".


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## Mornats (Dec 29, 2022)

I picked up the Audient ID14 mkii from my local shop (PMT in Bristol, UK) today. First impressions:

Installation went well, despite the instructions in the quick start not being quite right.
Firmware update was available and worked.
Registration was straightforward.
It can drive my Beyerdynamic DT880 Pros very well even with a USB-C to USB-A cable going into a USB 3 port.
I set the samples to 256 and it managed to play back a track with Neutron and Ozone (and some other effects) on the master bus just fine. My Focusrite Forte could not do that. I'll still set it at 2056 for mixing anyway but it's a good sign that it can handle busy tracks.
It sounds incredible. I played back a track I was happy with and went back in and fixed it as I could hear so much more in there. It was a "wow" moment. Just to point out, the sound quality on the Forte was excellent so I wasn't expecting such night and day results.
I can actually hear when I have too much reverb on when listening via headphones. That's something I usually have to switch to monitors for. I always overdo it with reverb so this is a plus, especially as I have to do most music stuff late at night whilst my child sleeps so headphones are my main thing.
No issues so far!
Overall I'm very happy but I'll report back if things change.

Thanks again to everyone for your input, it's been incredibly helpful.


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## Pier (Dec 29, 2022)

Mornats said:


> Just to point out, the sound quality on the Forte was excellent so I wasn't expecting such night and day results.


Budget interfaces have become really good in the last 10 years.

Back in 2007 I spent like $1000 on an RME Fireface 400 and it was night and day vs a Motu 828. I'm pretty sure a $200 Motu M2 rivals the quality of that RME and maybe even surpasses it.

I'm not sure why honestly. Maybe it's because there's more people doing music production and buying interfaces.


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## Mornats (Dec 29, 2022)

Pier said:


> Budget interfaces have become really good in the last 10 years.
> 
> Back in 2007 I spent like $1000 on an RME Fireface 400 and it was night and day vs a Motu 828. I'm pretty sure a $200 Motu M2 rivals the quality of that RME and maybe even surpasses it.
> 
> I'm not sure why honestly. Maybe it's because there's more people doing music production and buying interfaces.


I wonder if it's a case of there being more better quality DACs being made these days.


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