# Fast, please help me! Studio One Pro 5.3 vs Cubase Pro 11



## BenjaminFisch (Jul 11, 2021)

Hello!
I'm currently on the search for a DAW and I'm undecided for which one I should go.

The price doesn't matter for me.

I do mainly film scoring and need a fast and reliable DAW.

I tried the demos of Studio One Pro 5.3 and Cubase Pro 11, but I still can't decide for which one I should go...

Please help! I will be very grateful! 

Cheers
Ben


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## Pappaus (Jul 11, 2021)

I’m an hobby guy who loves studio one. That said, the consensus of all the threads I have read say go for cubase for film work at the present. Better evolved video tools. Also it is a standard and you will find tons of tutorials using cubase. I’m not trashing my daw (studio one) in any way. Im just relaying what I have read on this board and others.


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## erodred (Jul 11, 2021)

Hello, I am in the same boat and I want to be able to score to film etc.

Cubase was very nice and you can find lots of people online to help but I found it crashed upon opening a project 90% of time on 11. Had to make a new project and import the old one to make it work. Even then I still feel the tug towards it. Maybe because I keep being influenced by all the posts that say it has superior midi tools and film tools.

I am currently using Studio One and I found with the new Sound Variations, I found it is really great. Only recently learned about saving instrument presets and assigning macros to add a Kontakt, Opus, BBCSO instance with a press of a button. I also find the midi tools seem pretty sufficient to me and I think adding tracks etc is super easy since its just instrument track or audio track, as opposed the various kinds that Cubase has available. It seems pretty quick to move around the UI for me. 

I personally think the Macros make it a huge victory for Studio One. I found it easier to work with then say the logical editor for Cubase. I plan to use that video as a huge failure for my youtube channel.

On another note for Studio One, I found this guy use it for film scoring. He seems to do it quite well. I think the video thing is coming in a future update, whether its studio 5.5 or even a flagship update for 6, I am pretty sure it will come as most of the DAWs seem to have it now. 



Studio One is much cheaper, no dongle, and I hope to install it on my future laptop and use BBC discover as a sketch tool when my wife forces me to get out of the house.


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## Al Maurice (Jul 11, 2021)

Studio One is a great DAW for music production, it's almost on par with many of the other more featured ones out there.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but in the video above, he locked the audio track from the movie from editing and being moved. Yet it still is affected by time stretching. Meaning the audio is no longer in sync with the movie any more.

I found this is an issue with SO right now, it's not easy to sync the music to the movie. Nor is the timeline that accurate with tempo, as you need to zoom right in to ensure the enlignment is correct.

Other DAWs such as DP, have various options for timestretching so that tempo changes don't affect your audio or midi unless you specify it. Which means if you are serious about scoring to picture, then right now SO for me is not in contention.

Perhaps check out other options, many of the DAWs including DP and SO have time limited demos where most of the features are available. Before committing it's advisable to download the demos and try out all the scenarios you intend to use them for to see which one works out best.


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## erodred (Jul 11, 2021)

Al Maurice said:


> Studio One is a great DAW for music production, it's almost on par with many of the other more featured ones out there.
> 
> I'm not sure if you noticed, but in the video above, he locked the audio track from the movie from editing and being moved. Yet it still is affected by time stretching. Meaning the audio is no longer in sync with the movie any more.
> 
> ...


Oh, I had no idea. I am still newb. Well, listen to this guy then! Cubase has that sale on right now so may be worth it. And if you have any other DAW, then you could get the great crossgrade price!


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## Pappaus (Jul 11, 2021)

If I can chime Back in and give props to studio one, it is really easy to use. It is also deep with features and options that I am still learning about years later. The time stretching problems can probably be handled in the deeper settings. You may want to go to the website and check out the manual to see how this is handled. Also plus one for the presets. a real time saver.


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## BenjaminFisch (Jul 11, 2021)

Thank you for the responses! I'm still completely torn between Cubase and Studio One. I tried both demos and found both to be good. So I'm sitting in the dark now, as I have no idea which I should go for. I like the workflow of Studio One, but I'm quite afraid of the CPU issues some pointed out and the missing video features, because I want to use modular templates for film scoring. In case of Cubase I like the stability, but the workflow is not so streamlined as Studio One. But also it's industry standard and some functions, Studio One is still missing. So I don't know in which I should invest for keeping it for the foreseeable future.


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## kitekrazy (Jul 11, 2021)

Neither. Go with Reaper.


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## Cass Hansen (Jul 11, 2021)

They're both good and I use both. Somethings are better on Cubase and some things are better in Studio one but none is a deal breaker either way. However, if you plan to do anything but stereo output (ambisonic, 5.1 Atmos) then choose Cubase because Studio One doesn't have an easy way to produce those. (as far as I know at least, someone else can chime in here if that's not correct.)


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## erodred (Jul 11, 2021)

Well Cubase also has macros. It is not as nice as Studio One, but I made a test track preset of Kontakt and so I can essentially make it do the same thing as Studio One for those presets. I think there was search and hide functions etc as well. 

It just doesnt look as nice as Studio one.


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## deepstate (Jul 11, 2021)

I can speak about Studio One. I was using Reaper for the past 8 months then I switched to Studio One 2 weeks ago and there's no going back to Reaper.

Studio One is super straightforward and its really versatile about dragging and dropping.
I've heard that Cubase runs on older code and hence which I why I avoided it.

Studio handling comping in a great way, it shows you all the takes and you can just highlight it accordingly and it will auto fade and its clevellr with colors.

Studio one runs with events, the audio files and midi pieces are called events. You just have to duplicate these using D and thats their philosophy.

The midi handling piano roll is not as good as fl studio which I've used years ago.

What I really like though is the dragging and dropping. You can just drag the vocal fx chain to the side and it saves. Import parts of other songs.


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## PaulieDC (Jul 11, 2021)

7-year Studio One user, 2-year Cubase user, 22-year software developer here (which really doesn't mean a thing). Cubase, hands down, because you said film scoring.

Studio One is still primarily a pop and EDM DAW but has made great strides to accommodate MIDI Orchestration and film scoring, but not quite yet. There are more and more using Studio One, but the SUPPORT for Cubase... the mega-ton of videos and forums and tutorials and articles out there pertaining to Cubase for film scoring makes it a no-brainer. Just a thought.

And as of v11 Pro, Steinberg has implemented Drag-n-Drop in a ton of places (FINALLY), enough to make this former Studio One snob fully switch to Cubase. It's still a little klunkier, Studio One wins for ease of use, but at the end of the day when you hit a snag and the deadline looms, you need to be able to get your answer QUICK with a search. Plus, when you watch Guy Michelmore vids, you'll be familiar with his screen! 🤣


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## erodred (Jul 12, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> And as of v11 Pro, Steinberg has implemented Drag-n-Drop in a ton of places (FINALLY), enough to make this former Studio One snob fully switch to Cubase. It's still a little klunkier, Studio One wins for ease of use, but at the end of the day when you hit a snag and the deadline looms, you need to be able to get your answer QUICK with a search. Plus, when you watch Guy Michelmore vids, you'll be familiar with his screen! 🤣


I had no idea cubase 11 added the drag and drop feature as well. Just tested it on a demo. I wonder how many people are going to get sold from this thread...

I also love watching Guy Michelmore


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## mussnig (Jul 12, 2021)

BenjaminFisch said:


> I still can't decide for which one I should go...


I'm wondering about the same. Since I am eligible for the EDU discount and have Ableton Live 10 Suite, both Studio One as well as Cubase would cost roughly the same for me at the moment.

There are a lot of things I like about Studio One and which seem to be handled in a more "modern" way than in Cubase. Still, I would like to score some videos from time to time and Studio One still seems to be in its infancy with respect to that ...


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## mussnig (Jul 12, 2021)

One question for the experts (I've been trying to find this info on the internet): I know that I can have Markers or Hitpoints in Cubase that are locked to the picture and which I can later snap to the grid and the tempo will adjust accordingly. However, in these cases the tempo makes jumps and stays constant between the markers. Is it also possible to do that with a tempo ramp?


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## BenjaminFisch (Jul 12, 2021)

mussnig said:


> I'm wondering about the same. Since I am eligible for the EDU discount and have Ableton Live 10 Suite, both Studio One as well as Cubase would cost roughly the same for me at the moment.
> 
> There are a lot of things I like about Studio One and which seem to be handled in a more "modern" way than in Cubase. Still, I would like to score some videos from time to time and Studio One still seems to be in its infancy with respect to that ...


Yes, that is my same problem.

I think I will get Cubase for now, and eventually look at Studio One in the future.


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## mussnig (Jul 12, 2021)

I am playing around with the Studio One Demo for now. In principal you can lock markers to time/frames but then all of them are locked to time. However, you can have the parts of your arranger locked to beats/bars. It's not too bad.
Also, you can warp tempo according to your makers etc.


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## samphony (Jul 12, 2021)

mussnig said:


> I am playing around with the Studio One Demo for now. In principal you can lock markers to time/frames but then all of them are locked to time. However, you can have the parts of your arranger locked to beats/bars. It's not too bad.
> Also, you can warp tempo according to your makers etc.


You can work around this for now by adding as many unassiggned instrument tracks and and use events as markers.


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## DCPImages (Jul 12, 2021)

Cubase requires a USB dongle for activation. 😩


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## BenjaminFisch (Jul 12, 2021)

DCPImages said:


> Cubase requires a USB dongle for activation. 😩


I already have one because of VSL


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## stigc56 (Jul 12, 2021)

DCPImages said:


> Cubase requires a USB dongle for activation.


It's no problem. I never experienced any issues, and I honestly don't understand all the complaining. I have been using Cubase/Nuendo professionally - 8 hours a day - for the last 8 years.


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## BenjaminFisch (Jul 12, 2021)

Thank you all!

_currently downloading Cubase_


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## mussnig (Jul 12, 2021)

BenjaminFisch said:


> _currently downloading Cubase_


Doing the same


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## RogiervG (Jul 12, 2021)

DCPImages said:


> Cubase requires a USB dongle for activation. 😩


not for long


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## greggybud (Jul 12, 2021)

RogiervG said:


> not for long


Yes, Steinberg has already said there will be an alternative. They did not say when, but this statement was released in the past few months.

I just hope whatever alternative doesn't allow it to be cracked. Due to the dongle, it hasn't been cracked since many versions...5 or 6? I have read just a couple replies saying C10 is cracked, but when I ask if they actually were able to download and use it, there was no reply.


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## greggybud (Jul 12, 2021)

erodred said:


> I found it crashed upon opening a project 90% of time on 11. Had to make a new project and import the old one to make it work.


I would think this might have something to do with corrupted preferences. When you installed C11 and assuming you had C10.5, C10, C9.5 did you first hide any of those to make sure C11 isn't sucking any preferences at all?




erodred said:


> I personally think the Macros make it a huge victory for Studio One. I found it easier to work with then say the logical editor for Cubase. I plan to use that video as a huge failure for my youtube channel.


As said prior, Cubase has Macros. And agreed, Cubase Macros aren't as ellegant, but very functional. The Logical Editor, and Project Logical Editor go far beyond any macro. The fun just begins when you combine Macros with the Cubase LE and PLE using Metagrid.


erodred said:


> Studio One is much cheaper, no dongle,


It is less expensive. There are several links/websites where you can do a comparison as to whether or not you desire the missing features. Here is just one which I think gives a good overall view of each DAW.




__





The DAW Feature Chart


Things that you want which you can't find anywhere else




www.admiralbumblebee.com









Site Map


Things that you want which you can't find anywhere else




www.admiralbumblebee.com





As said above, an alternative to the dongle is in the works.


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## erodred (Jul 12, 2021)

greggybud said:


> I would think this might have something to do with corrupted preferences. When you installed C11 and assuming you had C10.5, C10, C9.5 did you first hide any of those to make sure C11 isn't sucking any preferences at all?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I addressed the macro thing in a follow up post. I was super surprised it existed as well as the drag and drop.

And I am not sure what caused the crashing issue. It was indeed an upgrade from 10, and I imagine there was some preferences that were disrupting it. I have tried to do a fresh install but I imagine some previous preference folder still existed. I have gotten the demo version and it seems to be working quite well though. May have to pick it up during the studio weeks sale again.

I had a template of VEP instruments and when I switched it all to local, it seemed to work a bit better. So I think it was something to do with VEP not liking one of my kontakt instances.

And I also have the elicensor already (had two for VEP). I personally never minded it, except when it may be difficult for some to acquire. But with online shopping, seems pretty easy to find a store to ship it to you.


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## mussnig (Jul 12, 2021)

So I'm toying around with Cubase. It seems that in the piano roll in the controller lanes you can automate MIDI CCs but not host automation parameters (e.g. which are provided by the VST). I can only manage to get these parameters as automation lanes but not in the piano roll. Am I not seeing something?


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## easyrider (Jul 12, 2021)

BenjaminFisch said:


> Hello!
> I'm currently on the search for a DAW and I'm undecided for which one I should go.
> 
> The price doesn't matter for me.
> ...


Studip One

Free meaningful updates until v6

Sound Variations with EastWest and VSL auto populating the articulation lists.


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## DCPImages (Jul 12, 2021)

stigc56 said:


> It's no problem. I never experienced any issues, and I honestly don't understand all the complaining. I have been using Cubase/Nuendo professionally - 8 hours a day - for the last 8 years.



Yes, it works if you compose at a desk and have plenty of USB ports available but I note that well-known composers like Guy Michelmore switches to Logic when he travels to prevent dongle problems - namely work comes to a standstill if the dongle gets misplaced or damaged and most Mac laptops have limited USB ports. It also seems anomalous that most Steinberg software (including Dorico) does not require a dongle.


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## PaulieDC (Jul 12, 2021)

DCPImages said:


> Cubase requires a USB dongle for activation. 😩


I know, hate that, BUT, they are working to switch to iLok, and if they do it *right *it'll be like East West where you just use the iLok app and no hardware.

THAT'S where Studio One is the clear winner... username and password, that's it. When you log into the website, you have all of your activations there to manage, all FIVE of them. PreSonus gives you five installs, how crazy good is that. If Steinberg adopted that model, that'd be an interesting thing to see would happen to Cubase sales, I believe many more would jump on board. In fact, if they increased Cubase Elements to 128 MIDI Tracks and turned on Tempo maps and adopted a normal licensing model, Elements would fly off the shelf for newbies who would eventually upgrade to Pro.


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## erodred (Jul 12, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I know, hate that, BUT, they are working to switch to iLok, and if they do it *right *it'll be like East West where you just use the iLok app and no hardware.
> 
> THAT'S where Studio One is the clear winner... username and password, that's it. When you log into the website, you have all of your activations there to manage, all FIVE of them. PreSonus gives you five installs, how crazy good is that. If Steinberg adopted that model, that'd be an interesting thing to see would happen to Cubase sales, I believe many more would jump on board. In fact, if they increased Cubase Elements to 128 MIDI Tracks and turned on Tempo maps and adopted a normal licensing model, Elements would fly off the shelf for newbies who would eventually upgrade to Pro.


Why havent they hired you yet? Great Ideas!


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## mussnig (Jul 12, 2021)

The more I compare DAWs for Windows the more I am inclined to switch to a MAC alltogether in order to use Logic. 🤔


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## PaulieDC (Jul 12, 2021)

mussnig said:


> The more I compare DAWs for Windows the more I am inclined to switch to a MAC alltogether in order to use Logic. 🤔


I don't know... just seems like you'll have a different headache at a higher cost for hardware.


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## mussnig (Jul 12, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I don't know... just seems like you'll have a different headache at a higher cost for hardware.


Exactly. This together with the fact that their latest Macbooks are limited to 16 GB RAM (although that will change sooner or later) prevents me from switching.


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## Al Maurice (Jul 12, 2021)

The more I look at the latest crop of DAWs, I realise one thing, they all want us to keep upgrading or pay for an update plan -- as that's their key revenue generator.

Steinberg has plenty of promotions throughout the year, right now it's buy Artist and get Pro. At another time they offer cross-grades to get those on Cubase to transition to Nuendo. As you move up the product offerings, the update costs increase.

So the question comes, which has the key features and is stable enough to cater for 80-90% of your daily needs within your budget -- none of the above does it all well.


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## Markrs (Jul 12, 2021)

Al Maurice said:


> The more I look at the latest crop of DAWs, I realise one thing, they all want us to keep upgrading or pay for an update plan -- as that's their key revenue generator.


With the exception of Cakewalk which is free and Reaper which is only $60 and the license lasts for 2 full versions (which is about 4 years), plus Reaper never does big releases (just regular updates every few weeks) even when it goes to a full version, it is normally still a smallish update.


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## Markrs (Jul 12, 2021)

I have also taken the advice to learn one DAW well, then you will know the things you like and don't like, making comparisons easier.

Reaper is what I have chosen to learn, though not sure I would recommend that as it can be harder to learn as you often need to use Reaper scripts to compensate for certain lack of features. On the plus side, I have never not been able to do something in Reaper.

I also have Cubase 10.5 pro, Cakewalk, Mixcraft and Studio One Artist (which is surprisingly full featured, and can be got free with a Presonus audio interface or cheap on KVR)


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## PaulieDC (Jul 12, 2021)

Al Maurice said:


> ... they all want us to keep upgrading or pay for an update plan -- their key revenue generator.


Without it, they close their doors. The balance is, they need to offer value to these upgrades. They keep growing, we keep growing. If the value isn't there then that's a problem. Here's where Studio One, actually PreSonus, was one of the best things to come along in recent years because it stuck it to the Industry, both in providing a functional DAW and a ton of free upgrades that were added from suggestions on their website! I mean, they added CC control to the FaderPort 8 and 16, free of charge with a firmware update (although I'd pay to have programmable controls and fader location retention, but that's a different thread. lol). What amazed me was jumping to the newly released Cubase 10 Pro after 5 years on Studio One, and Steinberg was touting all these new features, and I'm going "wait, S1 has had that since version 3", whatever it was. Then 10.5 and now 11 have added pretty much a boatload of S1 features. The drag and drop in Cubase works great now, thanks PreSonus! But they also have added other features in the past couple versions, such as Control Room, that I won't work without.

Oy vey, how did that paragraph get so long?! Bottom line is, I'm fine with paying for upgrades as long as they have value. The other reason is, upgrades are going to have undocumented bug fixes and other stuff that were found when testing (common as a house fly, believe me), and they also will/should stay current with the OS changes and other junk that Microsoft and Apple pull out of the hat.


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## PaulieDC (Jul 12, 2021)

Markrs said:


> ...and Studio One Artist (which is surprisingly full featured, and can be got free with a Presonus audio interface or cheap on KVR)


Exactly, comes free with hardware, and a couple times a year, the Pro upgrade is half price, $149 and includes a Mastering section. Can't really beat that with a Chapman Stick...
(there's one to google, lol)


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## Markrs (Jul 13, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Chapman Stick


Very cool 🙂


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## easyrider (Jul 13, 2021)

Al Maurice said:


> The more I look at the latest crop of DAWs, I realise one thing, they all want us to keep upgrading or pay for an update plan -- as that's their key revenue generator.
> 
> Steinberg has plenty of promotions throughout the year, right now it's buy Artist and get Pro. At another time they offer cross-grades to get those on Cubase to transition to Nuendo. As you move up the product offerings, the update costs increase.
> 
> So the question comes, which has the key features and is stable enough to cater for 80-90% of your daily needs within your budget -- none of the above does it all well.


Studio One offers free updates….


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## greggybud (Jul 13, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Then 10.5 and now 11 have added pretty much a boatload of S1 features. The drag and drop in Cubase works great now, thanks PreSonus! But they also have added other features in the past couple versions, such as Control Room, that I won't work without.



Control Room, iirc, was added with Cubase version 6.5 in 2012. 

Regarding drag & drop, PreSonus had little to do with it. The absence of D&D would be a competitive stumbling block. Another example is in 2002-3 when Cubase SX finally released the feature "unlimited undo." When Steinberg finally added it...they lost the fantastic Cubase-Wavelab integration that wasn't re-introduced until a few years ago and still is a bit less elegant.

Features/functions such as D&D are sometimes late to be added. My guess is that it's due to some older code foundation in Cubase, and Windows. Certain "simple" things can be very difficult and expensive to implement in a Cubase feature-rich environment.


PaulieDC said:


> Bottom line is, I'm fine with paying for upgrades as long as they have value.


Value for you is what's important. Keep in mind there are many different groups of Cubase users. EDM production is different than film scoring, and both of those are different than a PT tracking environment. Value is relative.

Unfortunately, this industry is driven by hobbyists. Personally I wish new features would stop, especially features/functions achieved by 3rd party. And IMO, the focus has been changing a bit since C9. I think they need to address current unfinished features, and long-standing issues. But stopping is not a survivable business paradigm...unfortunately.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 13, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Studio One offers free updates….


You have to pay for major version upgrades.


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## easyrider (Jul 13, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You have to pay for major version upgrades.


Yes…but the updates in between are meaningful….unlike other daws.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 13, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Yes…but the updates in between are meaningful….unlike other daws.


…Logic. But agree compared to Cubase - but S1 has a lot more to add vs. Cubase which is feature-rich.


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## easyrider (Jul 13, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> …Logic. But agree compared to Cubase - but S1 has a lot more to add vs. Cubase which is feature-rich.


Cubase is bloat….


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 13, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Cubase is bloat….


And yet people use those features and are asking for them in S1...imagine that.


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## easyrider (Jul 13, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> And yet people use those features and are asking for them in S1...imagine that.


And people in Cubase asking for S1 features…..

swings and roundabouts…

I have both….doing Things in Cubase is clunky compared to S1….

There is no perfect DAW and suggesting Cubase is feature rich over other daws is BS.

Cubase lacks in other areas….the whole DAW war discussion is dull and boring….

use what’s works for you…


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## NeonMediaKJT (Jul 13, 2021)

I'm currently in the same boat. I downloaded both trials and preferred Studio One. Started paying for it monthly via Splice. I have noticed, however, that compared to Reaper, my CPU usage in S1 is pretty high. Then Cubase went on sale for the competitive cross grade price and now I'm wondering if it'll just be worth buying and learning it.

what interested me most about these daws were the articulations features. I'm currently trying to streamline my workflow as well as lower my track count. I found both Sound variations and expression maps to be extremely useful, however, Studio One allowed me to bind keys to different articulations allowing me to quickly try different articulations in my music without having to go to the piano roll to change it. Can't figure out how to do that in Cubase.

I'm still undecided, lol. Personally, I'd rather just stick with Reaper because it's totally customised to my workflow, but it lacks an articulations feature and I find the setup of reaticulate to be very confusing.


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## Markrs (Jul 13, 2021)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> but it lacks an articulations feature and I find the setup of reaticulate to be very confusing.


The lack of a GUI is an issue for adopting Reatictulate, though that is often the price you pay with the free Reaper Scripts, especially as they are done in people's spare time. Once I got the hang of Reatictulate I found it more powerful than many others as you can send lots of types of messages and send multiples with one command.

The below video was very helpful in getting started with Reatictulate.





A video by @tack shows some of the advanced features it can do.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 13, 2021)

easyrider said:


> And people in Cubase asking for S1 features…..
> 
> swings and roundabouts…
> 
> ...


I own both too. So it isn’t BS when I say Cubase is more feature rich than S1. It’s not a war - just factual. You seem very sensitive towards being corrected.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Jul 13, 2021)

Markrs said:


> The lack of a GUI is an issue for adopting Reatictulate, though that is often the price you pay with the free Reaper Scripts, especially as they are done in people's spare time. Once I got the hang of Reatictulate I found it more powerful than many others as you can send lots of types of messages and send multiples with one command.
> 
> The below video was very helpful in getting started with Reatictulate.
> 
> ...



Thanks! 

Yeah, the second video I did watch while researching it. I just can't wrap my head around the notepad stuff. When I did try it myself, I had wrong articulations playing etc. I found it easy to do something wrong.


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## Markrs (Jul 13, 2021)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Yeah, the second video I did watch while researching it. I just can't wrap my head around the notepad stuff. When I did try it myself, I had wrong articulations playing etc. I found it easy to do something wrong.


Worth following the first video, before I did that I couldn't figure it out but after that it was easier. Though since then I have been using 1 articulation per tracks, though I might go back to articulation maps.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Jul 13, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Worth following the first video, before I did that I couldn't figure it out but after that it was easier. Though since then I have been using 1 articulation per tracks, though I might go back to articulation maps.


I'm pretty new to articulation mapping. One of my fears is I'll get deep into a project and find things going wrong or bugging out. Did you ever find the articulation mapping to do any of that?


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## PaulieDC (Jul 13, 2021)

greggybud said:


> Control Room, iirc, was added with Cubase version 6.5 in 2012.


Ha! Shows you what I know! For some reason I thought that popped in around v8 or 9.

As a software developer I really took to Studio One when I started recording church services live and then mixed the music parts afterwards. It's a wonderful environment/UI to mix straight up audio tracks. It was fine too when I discovered MIDI orchestration a few years back. At first. But now after two years on Cubase, it really seems to scratch my itch as I learn each new thing.


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## Markrs (Jul 13, 2021)

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I'm pretty new to articulation mapping. One of my fears is I'll get deep into a project and find things going wrong or bugging out. Did you ever find the articulation mapping to do any of that?


Not had that problem, especially when using CC as the DAW will chase them, so you don't even have to start the playback at the CC trigger point. I have to admit I am not the most knowledgeable on articulation maps, but there are lots on here that can help you if you did have problems.


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## easyrider (Jul 13, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I own both too. So it isn’t BS when I say Cubase is more feature rich than S1. It’s not a war - just factual. You seem very sensitive towards being corrected.


Corrected about what?

A random vi user spouting BS….

Just because you say something doesn’t make it correct….the features of any DAW are used by some and ignored by others….everyone’s workflow is different…If you think your opinion and workflow are the only way things should be done then you are deluded.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 13, 2021)

easyrider said:


> A random vi user spouting BS….


I’m glad you can be self-reflective.

*Functionality* is not an opinion. You may want to take a look at Presonus Answers board and then you’ll understand where so much of S1’s recent evolution has derived from. Did I say Cubase’s workflow is superior? I said it was feature rich compared to S1 which is an objective fact. Your reading comprehension really needs work.


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## easyrider (Jul 13, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I said it was feature rich compared to S1 which is an objective fact.


The term Feature Rich is in itself arbitrary….So wind your neck in with your objective fact…..

What are valuable features for some are meaningless to others…that’s my point.


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## Toecutter (Jul 13, 2021)

BenjaminFisch said:


> I do mainly film scoring and need a fast and reliable DAW.


Cubase.

I don't know how else to test a DAW if not by using it in real work so I tried Studio One 5.3 during the weekend to mockup a few short cues that I had to deliver yesterday (living on the edge XD) it was a fun experiment. Had no trouble adapting to the basic music writing workflow, Cubase and Studio One share a lot of similarities.

My favorite things in S1: Score Editor! Custom shortcut-macros toolbar! Sound Variations! Track List in the Note Editor!!!! This is soooo usefull, wish Cubase had something similar but that would probably require a rewrite because the editor in Cubase is event based instead of track based like Studio One and Digital Performer. The one thing that would make the Note Editor perfect is Logic's "double click a note to focus". In Logic, when editing multiple tracks at once, you double-click a note to work on a single region. To go back to editing all the selected regions, double-click the background. So convenient! Cubase feels outdated here.

Unfortunately for film scoring, working with SMPTE, etc Studio One has a lot of catching up to do before it can be used like Cubase or Digital Performer. It also falls apart after a few hundred tracks (had to do the music and sound design in one of the cues) it becomes sluggish with huge save times and the CPU hit was much higher compared to Cubase in my 3950X. Cubase was engineered to handle anything you throw at it and SMOKES Studio One in my experience. I think S1 is currently great for small projects or pop stuff but if you need specific film features or to keep throwing stuff in your DAW without thinking about it, Cubase is the way to go, feels robust and reliable.


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## kitekrazy (Jul 13, 2021)

I only recommend Reaper because of price, licensing, constantly updated. Sure there is a learning curve but which DAW isn't. There is also the long term cost of a license.


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## BenjaminFisch (Jul 13, 2021)

I'm currently diving into Cubase and like what I see 
Glad I bought it.


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## erodred (Jul 13, 2021)

All this talk is making me want to repurchase Cubase again. Especially since I hope to score to some videos as well as a hobby. I am purely orchestral/hybrid/film. Dont plan on doing EDM or the sorts.


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## DCPImages (Jul 13, 2021)

Like many people I waver between several DAWS always looking for the one best for my workflow. Constant innovation means when I start to settle on one DAW, software and hardware changes gives advantage to another. For me focussing on features can distract from workflow. Some people are theory trained, some are keyboard experts and others are instumentalists (like me in woodwinds). The best DAW for me offers composition tools that compensate for my weak keyboard skills. That and the link with Notion is why I gravitated towards S1 originally. But I do use Logic, Reaper and Tracktion Waveform too. The current issue for me is which one handles Apple silicon (Not using Rosetta, which messes with my ability to use Spitfire Libraries)


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## PaulieDC (Jul 13, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> …Logic. But agree compared to Cubase - but S1 has a lot more to add vs. Cubase which is feature-rich.


Bingo.


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## PaulieDC (Jul 13, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Cubase is bloat….


I’ve seen people say that in the past. Been around for 30 years, makes sense. I’m still trying to find out where that’s a problem, lol. So far every crazy thing I wanted to do and even things I didn’t know I could do, are available. More than half the time when I want to watch a tutorial on something with orchestration or film scoring, they’re using Cubase and I learned about Cubase watching them. So that’s why I’m not sure with the bloat thing is all about, what are the symptoms and what problem does it create?


Nahhhh, You don’t have to answer that, it’ll just start the tic-tac-toe game and we’ll never get to sleep! 😂


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## dcoscina (Jul 13, 2021)

I’ve been immersed in S1 since last fall and love it. I find orchestral composing a snap on it because of its layout. However I’ve not tried it with media- then again I never used Cubase for scoring- it was always DP or LPX, both of which handled video much better on my Mac systems. But for PC I’m sure Cubase is pretty solid.


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## InLight-Tone (Jul 13, 2021)

mussnig said:


> The more I compare DAWs for Windows the more I am inclined to switch to a MAC alltogether in order to use Logic. 🤔


That's not a bad move IMO...


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## InLight-Tone (Jul 13, 2021)

IMO, Cubase is ugly with it's millions of tabs, but S1 is even harder to look at for long periods of time...


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## cqd (Jul 14, 2021)

Picked up a copy of studio one yesterday for handy money..
I've been using Pro tools for years,..I tried cubase a while ago but ended up getting rid of it again..
Like the idea of scratch tracks and a few other bits..
Hoping it will be more resource friendly than Pro tools at a higher track count..
Somewhat wary of trying to learn another daw though, although I can probably sell it on for a profit if I don't take to it..


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## Crossroads (Jul 14, 2021)

No matter how much I love Studio One and Presonus, right now, for film scoring, Cubase is where it's at, speaking between those two.

More stability with large projects is absolutely the biggest reason. More tiny little features that will save you time when you're neck deep inside a project is a second.

The choice boils down to how serious you are about film scoring RIGHT NOW. Because I'm sure Studio One will get there, it is far along the path to become an absolutely serious contender. It's not there yet, however. The way it handles video is just not up to par. The way it handles large projects isn't either, and the save and loading times really need to get fixed. It just can't do it.

To sum up, in order to even have a chance, Presonus should look at these three:

1) Video Track. No way around it.
2) Stability with very large projects. Absolute must.
3) A forever fix for those saving and loading times. Speaks for itself.

Mind you, what I just summed up is the absolute minimum of work required to even have a chance of competing in this field. I could list a gazillion other tiny little things, but they aren't absolute musts, either because you can work around them or they simply will be missed but aren't THAT important.

I'm thinking not all three of these things will just pop out of nowhere. Presonus have other customers to take care of, too. For us, these things are most important, but we are in a minority compared to other DAW use cases. Always mind that when an update isn't exactly addressed towards you. They can't do everything for everyone at the same time.

For me, in the future, the deciding factor between these two will be who comes first; either Presonus catch up by implementing these, or Steinberg catches up by streamlining Cubase, which they already started doing.

Whatever the case is, exciting times are ahead, and I'm glad for Presonus for catching Steinberg by surprise and actually pushing them towards innovation again. Competition is good for all of us, in this field.


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## Crossroads (Jul 14, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I’ve seen people say that in the past. Been around for 30 years, makes sense. I’m still trying to find out where that’s a problem, lol. So far every crazy thing I wanted to do and even things I didn’t know I could do, are available. More than half the time when I want to watch a tutorial on something with orchestration or film scoring, they’re using Cubase and I learned about Cubase watching them. So that’s why I’m not sure with the bloat thing is all about, what are the symptoms and what problem does it create?
> 
> 
> Nahhhh, You don’t have to answer that, it’ll just start the tic-tac-toe game and we’ll never get to sleep! 😂


It becomes apparent when Presonus implement yet another feature that Cubase has that simply requires less clicks and less menu diving. Steinberg like to overengineer to the point of hilariousness. Some features are just really overthought.

Sometimes, that overengineering is a godsend. However, lots of things could be streamlined. One aspect that is truly overengineered is it's automation system, for example. VST Quick Controls, Track Quick Controls, manually adding automation, Remote Control Editor... this just feels like four different ideas from four different timelines just mashed together to create, well, one completely incoherent whole. Trying to wrap your head around this sometimes feels like trying to study Quantum Physics.

I was extremely glad to hear that they are working towards changing this.


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## cqd (Jul 14, 2021)

Hearing of stability issues in large projects is not inspiring confidence..


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## easyrider (Jul 14, 2021)

cqd said:


> Hearing of stability issues in large projects is not inspiring confidence..


I believe this to be the case on MAC….


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## easyrider (Jul 14, 2021)

Crossroads said:


> To sum up, in order to even have a chance, Presonus should look at
> 
> 1) Video Track. No way around it.


I‘m sure Presonus are working on the video track feature….the updates geared toward composing of late is surely a missed opportunity for Presonus to not implement a more comprehensive video track.


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## Jackdnp121 (Jul 14, 2021)

BenjaminFisch said:


> Hello!
> I'm currently on the search for a DAW and I'm undecided for which one I should go.
> 
> The price doesn't matter for me.
> ...


i Was on the same Boat and I tried them both as well, in short, for film scoring go for cubase. so much better. studio one decides what to update according to the customers request voting , and video or any film score stuff is no where near the top of the list. gonna be a while till them have some cool video feature I’m afraid


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## easyrider (Jul 14, 2021)

Jackdnp121 said:


> i Was on the same Boat and I tried them both as well, in short, for film scoring go for cubase. so much better. studio one decides what to update according to the customers request voting , and video or any film score stuff is no where near the top of the list. gonna be a while till them have some cool video feature I’m afraid


How do you know…..?

and the latest S1 update incorporates sound variations and works directly with VSL and EastWest composer libraries….

So the latest update is geared toward film scoring….

😂


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## easyrider (Jul 14, 2021)

I just loaded up Cubase 10.5 after months of not using it….Got a timeout error on BBC Orchestra and it crashed….

Classy

😂


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## Jackdnp121 (Jul 14, 2021)

easyrider said:


> How do you know…..?
> 
> and the latest S1 update incorporates sound variations and works directly with VSL and EastWest composer libraries….
> 
> ...


well if you go to their forum 
There is actually a voting list ….😂



Highest voted questions in Studio One Feature Requests - Questions & Answers | PreSonus


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## easyrider (Jul 14, 2021)

Jackdnp121 said:


> well if you go to their forum
> There is actually a voting list ….😂
> 
> 
> ...


I don’t see sound variations there….Presonus know what they are doing when it comes to updates…

A dedicated video track will be incoming….


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## Jackdnp121 (Jul 14, 2021)

I


easyrider said:


> How do you know…..?
> 
> and the latest S1 update incorporates sound variations and works directly with VSL and EastWest composer libraries….
> 
> ...





easyrider said:


> How do you know…..?
> 
> and the latest S1 update incorporates sound variations and works directly with VSL and EastWest composer libraries….
> 
> ...





easyrider said:


> I don’t see sound variations there….Presonus know what they are doing when it comes to updates…
> 
> A dedicated video track will be incoming….





easyrider said:


> I don’t see sound variations there….Presonus know what they are doing when it comes to updates…
> 
> A dedicated video track will be incoming….


Yeah dedicated video track will be a great way to “start” then you also will want time lock and other things. Look man , I love studio one , I own a bunch of VSL , sound variation is amazing , they will eventually puzzle all the film score tool piece together but I just don’t see that will be anytime soon. but hey we all could be wrong. Cheers


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## easyrider (Jul 14, 2021)

Jackdnp121 said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it’s coming in V6


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## Erik (Jul 14, 2021)

Hi,
I am a Cubase user since version 5 up to 11 now. Last year I seriously tried out Studio One 5 with all its free (!) updates. I don't do any video scoring, mostly mockup's.

Although there are many appealing features in Studio One there are some for me important gaps.

- no midi sends, a feature that I often use to send data from a track to other instruments. I do this for layering reasons, very handy working with many VSL libraries, especially when combined with VEP. It can be solved somehow in S1, see: multi instrument tracks, but mixing layers remains easier for me in Cubase.
- no midi inserts: there are some fine easy to use performer scripts in the logical editor to randomize things or change CC numbers
- no saving of controller lane presets (in a basic xml file, what is supposed to be I guess). I have many of them working in Cubase, a huge time saver. The absence of this in S1 was very often a negative factor in my workflow.

Cubase however misses that great feature that indicates a specific parameter in many plugin's while adding them. If you work in S1 with e.g. SWAM, all, yes all parameters are indicated by name in the add/remove section of controller lanes. I wish Cubase had something like this. Up to now there is only a CC number indication (next to program change etc.).
The same work can be done also in the VST instrument part in the main screen, but for me it feels very different, mainly because I tend to miss out things.
Other pro for S1 is that when you move notes horizontally all relevant CC data join the party.

It eventually comes down to the job that your DAW has to do for you. I think for elaborate and complex, let's say: EDM work S1 is preferrable. The GUI is more appealing anyway than the one of Cubase.

Again, for me personally, working with mainly CC data and expressions maps (sound variations in S1) Cubase wins here.

Both DAW's are great, to conclude. We should be happy with all these possibilities.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Jul 14, 2021)

what do you guys mean by dedicated video track? 

you can add videos to Studio One right?

What film scoring tools is Studio One missing that Cubase has?


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## PaulieDC (Jul 14, 2021)

Crossroads said:


> *Steinberg like to overengineer* to the point of hilariousness. Some features are just really overthought.


OH yeah, you said it... that you definitely see. Perfect example: 

CUBASE:
Drag and drop my Lexicon reverb into the editor and BOOM, it's an Aux Send , ready to go. Ok, not quite... select the track, click the inspector, add the Send, turn it ON and slide up the volume. And that's actually better than the first iteration when there were 7 steps, lol!

STUDIO ONE: Hold my root beer
Alt-Drag the Reverb, add it on the channel (volume is already up).


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## PaulieDC (Jul 14, 2021)

easyrider said:


> A dedicated video track will be incoming….


It will... more and more scoring features are being added. v4 was all for the EDM crowd, now it's our turn. v5 has added the a lot for us... better multicore, built in scoring, Sound Variations... it will get there. I say "our" because even though I'll all Cubase for my tower and mobile rig, my Acer gamer laptop is my workhorse with the entire Adobe Suite for photo and video work, my remote machine, and when the itch hits, Studio One and Notion, along with Albione One and EWSO... I mean, c'mon, you can never really part with your first lov... er.. DAW, right?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 14, 2021)

On JXL’s live Q&A today, he mentioned that he is part of Cubase’s beta team and Steinberg has implemented a number of his feature requests from a film composer’s perspective. He also hinted at some good stuff coming up in the next release which should be out in a few months. Point being that Steinberg isn’t sitting around, twiddling their thumbs.

Not sure who Presonus has on their beta team in terms of film composers, but hopefully they have some experienced ones!


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## Crossroads (Jul 15, 2021)

With hearing all that's going on... I believe for once that the next Cubase update is going to be huge.


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## Headlands (Sep 10, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> 7-year Studio One user, 2-year Cubase user, 22-year software developer here (which really doesn't mean a thing). Cubase, hands down, because you said film scoring.
> 
> Studio One is still primarily a pop and EDM DAW but has made great strides to accommodate MIDI Orchestration and film scoring, but not quite yet. There are more and more using Studio One, but the SUPPORT for Cubase... the mega-ton of videos and forums and tutorials and articles out there pertaining to Cubase for film scoring makes it a no-brainer. Just a thought.
> 
> And as of v11 Pro, Steinberg has implemented Drag-n-Drop in a ton of places (FINALLY), enough to make this former Studio One snob fully switch to Cubase. It's still a little klunkier, Studio One wins for ease of use, but at the end of the day when you hit a snag and the deadline looms, you need to be able to get your answer QUICK with a search. Plus, when you watch Guy Michelmore vids, you'll be familiar with his screen! 🤣


Which places have they added drag and drop? I'm a longtime Cubase user and am stuck in some old ways...am not aware of the new drag and drop features as far as where they've been added.


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## PaulieDC (Sep 10, 2021)

Headlands said:


> Which places have they added drag and drop? I'm a longtime Cubase user and am stuck in some old ways...am not aware of the new drag and drop features as far as where they've been added.


I think I should have said v10... I'm pretty sure that's the first version where you can drag an effect like a reverb onto the track list and have an Aux Send in every other channel ready to go. I can't remember specifics now but when I cross-graded to Cubase it was v10 and the tutorials I watched showed a few features including some drag-n-drop, claiming they were new when we had been doing that same stuff since Studio One 3. 

Let me know what you are trying to do but can't and maybe I can find it. I'm in a Mixing class at Berklee Online (where ProTools rules the day) and I thought Cubase couldn't do multiple fader movements at once and there was no Undo for fader movements. Turns out it CAN, just implemented a bit different. In fact the Cubase History is excellent. One thing I noticed about Cubase: no matter what feature it shares with another DAW, Cubase will always require an extra click or modifier key, nearly 90% of the time it seems!


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## Headlands (Sep 10, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I think I should have said v10... I'm pretty sure that's the first version where you can drag an effect like a reverb onto the track list and have an Aux Send in every other channel ready to go. I can't remember specifics now but when I cross-graded to Cubase it was v10 and the tutorials I watched showed a few features including some drag-n-drop, claiming they were new when we had been doing that same stuff since Studio One 3.
> 
> Let me know what you are trying to do but can't and maybe I can find it. I'm in a Mixing class at Berklee Online (where ProTools rules the day) and I thought Cubase couldn't do multiple fader movements at once and there was no Undo for fader movements. Turns out it CAN, just implemented a bit different. In fact the Cubase History is excellent. One thing I noticed about Cubase: no matter what feature it shares with another DAW, Cubase will always require an extra click or modifier key, nearly 90% of the time it seems!



Ah, didn't realize that, thanks! It would be great to be able to drag and drop FX/FX presets directly onto audio parts like you can in Studio One -- I don't see a way to do that though. Is there a way?

And yes, Cubase requires more futzing in some ways than most other DAWs I've tried, but overall it's worth it for me.

I do wish they would do a version where ALL they do is make existing features as fast and modern as it can be speed and workflow-wise. But it's always getting better, bit by bit.


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## PaulieDC (Sep 10, 2021)

Headlands said:


> Ah, didn't realize that, thanks! It would be great to be able to drag and drop FX/FX presets directly onto audio parts like you can in Studio One -- I don't see a way to do that though. Is there a way?
> 
> And yes, Cubase is old code and requires more futzing in some ways than most other DAWs I've tried. It's maddening and very old-feeling that way, even considering macros and PLEs/LEs which are great.
> 
> I keep wishing they would do a version where ALL they do is make everything as fast and easy as it can be with the least amount of clicks and mousing around -- that would make a speed and workflow difference more than anything else IMO.


So with Studio One you can Alt-Drag an effect and drop it anywhere... mixer on the bottom, the editing areas, track list on the left. And when you assign a Send in a channel it's on and ready to go, right?

With Cubase you just find an effect or sampler (Kontakt, Sine, FabFilter Pro Q, Lexicon Reverb, WHATEVER) in the Right-side list and you can drag it ONLY to the track list to the left of the big center space where you see waveforms and MIDI files (always want to call it the Timeline from working with Premiere Pro). Once you are hovering the mouse over the track headers or folders to the left of the waveform forms or MIDI data, you'll see the colored line appear showing where the effect or sampler will land. But Cubase does set it up as an Aux Send in the mixer, ready to go. When you go to a channel Send, you simply find the effect in the dropdown list. The one extra step is to turn "on" the Send after you select it. Not a bad extra step, maybe you are listening to a mix and don't want to send the reverb until you are ready.

The other thing Cubase has _right _now is Ripple Delete (I think it's Ripple Edit in the audio world... another Premiere term there), where you can select a whole section or even space before the piece starts, using the range tool, then cut it out and all of the tracks slide left staying in sync. I'm pretty sure they didn't have that all there until v10, but v11 works very well regardless. FINALLY. Studio One 4 didn't have that, maybe 5 does.


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## Headlands (Sep 10, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> So with Studio One you can Alt-Drag an effect and drop it anywhere... mixer on the bottom, the editing areas, track list on the left. And when you assign a Send in a channel it's on and ready to go, right?
> 
> With Cubase you just find an effect or sampler (Kontakt, Sine, FabFilter Pro Q, Lexicon Reverb, WHATEVER) in the Right-side list and you can drag it ONLY to the track list to the left of the big center space where you see waveforms and MIDI files (always want to call it the Timeline from working with Premiere Pro). Once you are hovering the mouse over the track headers or folders to the left of the waveform forms or MIDI data, you'll see the colored line appear showing where the effect or sampler will land. But Cubase does set it up as an Aux Send in the mixer, ready to go. When you go to a channel Send, you simply find the effect in the dropdown list. The one extra step is to turn "on" the Send after you select it. Not a bad extra step, maybe you are listening to a mix and don't want to send the reverb until you are ready.
> 
> The other thing Cubase has _right _now is Ripple Delete (I think it's Ripple Edit in the audio world... another Premiere term there), where you can select a whole section or even space before the piece starts, using the range tool, then cut it out and all of the tracks slide left staying in sync. I'm pretty sure they didn't have that all there until v10, but v11 works very well regardless. FINALLY. Studio One 4 didn't have that, maybe 5 does.


Got it, thanks!

Yes, Ripple Delete has been a godsend for me since it was introduced. I'm hoping a full-on Ripple Edit (using only one track if one desires, instead of needing to open up all automation and then selecting all tracks, groups, auxes) function will make its way in there soon, but Ripple Delete is a great start.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Sep 11, 2021)

Jackdnp121 said:


> well if you go to their forum
> There is actually a voting list ….😂
> 
> 
> ...


But that's not all. They use those requests as part of development, not as its foundation.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Sep 11, 2021)

Headlands said:


> Got it, thanks!
> 
> Yes, Ripple Delete has been a godsend for me since it was introduced. I'm hoping a full-on Ripple Edit (using only one track if one desires, instead of needing to open up all automation and then selecting all tracks, groups, auxes) function will make its way in there soon, but Ripple Delete is a great start.


This feature is implemented much better in S1 via Arranger. You can replace the whole section(from anywhere to anywhere), you can flip places of two sections, and of course you can delete the whole section and everything will move by the length of deleted section.


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