# Affordable 4 output audio interface with 2 Windows WDM Stereo outs



## EgM (Mar 4, 2020)

Hi there,

I'm looking for an affordable audio interface that has two stereo outs available in WDM regular windows audio because I'm coding an automation application and found out that the Steinberg UR44 I had to work with only has the main 1/2 outputs available to Windows audio...

Any suggestions? Thanks!


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## rrichard63 (Mar 4, 2020)

I can't recall ever seeing a spec sheet for an interface that mentions any details about WDM or WASAPI. So this question might require some effort to answer.

Many motherboard sound chips do this for 5.1 surround sound. (Surround is why WDM provides up to 8 channels of output.) A lot of us disable the built-in audio in favor of an external interface. But you might want to re-enable it temporarily to find out whether this works. It won't provide you with stellar audio fidelity but it might provide proof-of-concept, and for no money.


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## Technostica (Mar 4, 2020)

I doubt that motherboard 5.1 audio will offer discrete stereo outputs within windows but would be very happy to be proved wrong. 

There are some DJ focused audio interfaces that offer dual stereo outputs for mixing purposes so that might work. 
Native Instruments do the Traktor Audio 2 mk 2 that is worth investigating.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 4, 2020)

Technostica said:


> I doubt that motherboard 5.1 audio will offer discrete stereo outputs within windows


I was assuming that the application can address the rear channels as a second stereo pair. It might have to pretend to be a surround application, which might be inconvenient in other ways.

Your suggestion to look at DJ interfaces is promising, although my guess is that many of them assume that ASIO is the user's protocol of choice. I imagine that DJ's don't like latency any more than recording engineers do.


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## Technostica (Mar 4, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> Your suggestion to look at DJ interfaces is promising, although my guess is that many of them assume that ASIO is the user's protocol of choice. I imagine that DJ's don't like latency any more than recording engineers do.


I don't think the latency issue is the same for playback only scenarios but I could be wrong! 

The NI device I mentioned shows twice in the Windows audio panel and that doesn't support ASIO I presume.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 4, 2020)

Technostica said:


> I don't think the latency issue is the same for playback only scenarios


If I understand correctly what Traktor is for, it involves split-second timing during live performance. But I could be wrong! If there are any DJs in the house, please chime in now.


Technostica said:


> The NI device I mentioned shows twice in the Windows audio panel


Come to think of it, one of my interfaces does this as well: RME Multiface II. My Presonus FireStudio Mobile does not, although it has 3 stereo pairs of physical outputs.


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## Technostica (Mar 4, 2020)

ASIO is essential for multi-track recording as you need to sync recording to playback. 
For playback only I don't think it's so critical.


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## EgM (Mar 5, 2020)

Yeah I would prefer an audio interface as I need balanced outputs in 1/4 for stability, the backend of the code relies on standard wdm audio, so I can't really use WASAPI nor ASIO as we don't have time to rewrite the code. I wonder if the cheapo Behringer UMC404HD would work.

I always assumed most audio interfaces allowed WDM full outputs, my old Presonus Firepod (FP10) shows all 5 stereo pairs to be used.


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## Technostica (Mar 5, 2020)

EgM said:


> Yeah I would prefer an audio interface as I need balanced outputs in 1/4 for stability.


The Traktor I mentioned earlier doesn't have that format of outputs but this does:








Specifications







www.native-instruments.com


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## EgM (Mar 5, 2020)

Technostica said:


> The Traktor I mentioned earlier doesn't have that format of outputs but this does:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks! I'll check it out


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## rrichard63 (Mar 5, 2020)

Technostica said:


> The Traktor I mentioned earlier doesn't have that format of outputs but this does:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I own one of these. I don't remember whether the secondary outputs appear in Windows Control Panel. If I can find it today, I'll hook it up and check. I replaced it because I found the USB connection to be somewhat unstable. This was one of a couple of interfaces that convinced me to switch from USB to Firewire. That was years ago, and NI might have improved the driver software since then.


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## EgM (Mar 5, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> I own one of these. I don't remember whether the secondary outputs appear in Windows Control Panel. If I can find it today, I'll hook it up and check. I replaced it because I found the USB connection to be somewhat unstable. This was one of a couple of interfaces that convinced me to switch from USB to Firewire. That was years ago, and NI might have improved the driver software since then.



I'd appreciate that, thanks a lot!


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## Technostica (Mar 5, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> I own one of these. I don't remember whether the secondary outputs appear in Windows Control Panel. If I can find it today, I'll hook it up and check. I replaced it because I found the USB connection to be somewhat unstable. This was one of a couple of interfaces that convinced me to switch from USB to Firewire. That was years ago, and NI might have improved the driver software since then.


This is newer hardware as well as I think this model was only released in the last year or so.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 5, 2020)

Technostica said:


> This is newer hardware as well as I think this model was only released in the last year or so.


Yes, I think NI released a Version 2 of this. Mine is definitely Version 1. I'll still look for it this morning.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 5, 2020)

(1) My search for my old Komplete Audio 6 failed to find it -- sorry. The spec sheet for the new version on the NI website mentions WASAPI but not WDM. You'd have to contact NI technical support to find out.

(2) I was wrong about my Presonus FireStudio Mobile. It does support WDM and even has a nifty dialog in the control panel app for mapping WDM surround channels to physical outputs. It would be worth contacting Presonus support about which of their current products do what you need. Their hardware is generally a good value for the money.

(3) I now think that "Manage Audio Devices" in the Windows Control Panel might not tell us anything about WDM support. I have a feeling that, at least in Windows 7 and 10, what it tells us about is WASAPI support. Among DAWs, Reaper is one that supports virtually all types of drivers, and has a very understandable configuration dialog that shows you exactly what each hardware device has to offer.

(4) Based on some Googling, it appears that the users who care about WDM with more than two channels are gamers. If there are interfaces marketed specifically to that crowd, I would look at them. Come to think of it, hard core gamers might have forums where this is discussed.


EgM said:


> I wonder if the cheapo Behringer UMC404HD would work.


(5) Behringer's description of the UMC404HD says that it works under Windows XP and above (most gear these days specifies Windows 7 and above). While that essentially guarantees WDM compatibility, it does not guarantee four channels via WDM -- as you discovered with your Steinberg.


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## Technostica (Mar 5, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> (1) My search for my old Komplete Audio 6 failed to find it -- sorry. The spec sheet for the new version on the NI website mentions WASAPI but not WDM. You'd have to contact NI technical support to find out.


It states:

"Compatible with Mac and PC (ASIO/Core Audio/DirectSound/WASAPI)"

DirectSound might do the job as it is a part of WDM.








Wave and DirectSound Components - Windows drivers


Wave and DirectSound Components



docs.microsoft.com


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## rrichard63 (Mar 5, 2020)

Technostica said:


> DirectSound might do the job as it is a part of WDM.


I didn't know that. Thank you for the correction. But @EgM should still contact NI about using two stereo pairs.

Another possibility worth contacting the manufacturer about is the Tascam US-4x4, which I think costs less than the NI. But, here too the spec sheets and manuals don't answer our question.


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## EgM (Mar 5, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> (1) My search for my old Komplete Audio 6 failed to find it -- sorry. The spec sheet for the new version on the NI website mentions WASAPI but not WDM. You'd have to contact NI technical support to find out.
> 
> (2) I was wrong about my Presonus FireStudio Mobile. It does support WDM and even has a nifty dialog in the control panel app for mapping WDM surround channels to physical outputs. It would be worth contacting Presonus support about which of their current products do what you need. Their hardware is generally a good value for the money.
> 
> ...



Thank you for checking it out @rrichard63, I really appreciate it! I'll contact Tascam and ask them about it.


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## EgM (Mar 5, 2020)

Technostica said:


> It states:
> 
> "Compatible with Mac and PC (ASIO/Core Audio/DirectSound/WASAPI)"
> 
> ...



True, though it would still mean I'd have to recode the player if I'd switch to DirectSound 

Edit: Hmm, by DirectSound they might mean standard wdm audio, as Microsoft describes it as such:


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## Technostica (Mar 5, 2020)

EgM said:


> True, though it would still mean I'd have to recode the player if I'd switch to DirectSound
> 
> Edit: Hmm, by DirectSound they might mean standard wdm audio, as Microsoft describes it as such:


I presume you aren't coding at a very low level as you would know if you were using the legacy wavOut or the newer DirectSound?


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## EgM (Mar 5, 2020)

Technostica said:


> I presume you aren't coding at a very low level as you would know if you were using the legacy wavOut or the newer DirectSound?



No, not at low level at all. Simple Visual Studio C# using the common API available from it, time is an issue as I have to have this ready for next week and all's working perfectly with windows audio, I just don't want to end up using unbalanced 1/8 plugs, too fragile for the customer.


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## Technostica (Mar 5, 2020)

EgM said:


> No, not at low level at all. Simple Visual Studio C# using the common API available from it, time is an issue as I have to have this ready for next week and all's working perfectly with windows audio, I just don't want to end up using unbalanced 1/8 plugs, too fragile for the customer.


DirectSound should be fine I suspect unless you need legacy support for ancient hardware and operating systems.

Take a look at this link as it allows you to select AIs by features such as the number of Audio Outputs:








Thomann USB Audio Interfaces


USB Audio Interfaces at Europe's largest retailer of musical instruments - fast delivery, 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee and 3-year Thomann warranty




www.thomann.de





It won't tell you what driver support the outputs have but at least it narrows it down to what hardware to investigate.
You can tinker with the selector further.
The Roland Rubix24 is one to investigate.


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## Darez (Mar 15, 2020)

EgM said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I'm looking for an affordable audio interface that has two stereo outs available in WDM regular windows audio because I'm coding an automation application and found out that the Steinberg UR44 I had to work with only has the main 1/2 outputs available to Windows audio...
> 
> Any suggestions? Thanks!



Hello Folks,

Im looking for the same Audio-Interface for a longer time now. 4x TRS balanced outputs / with seperate WDM, MME, Direct Sound,... use.

What I know so far for SURE:

Im currently using an old *ESI MAYA44 PCI* (Yes PCI! not PCIe) and it does support the feature you want to have. It has one Main Mix Output and seperate 1/2 and 3/4 Outputs in Windows. But it comes with several problems. First it's an EndOfLife Product and its latest drivers are from 2016... . Second i sometimes get interference/noise with the card beeing 'too close' to other cards or the PSU in the system. And for the last point, i don't know why but sometimes the sound get's really crispy, distorted and broken if i play f.e. a youtube video (several times play/pause helps to let the card find its way).
[picture1]

*ESI* still has a refreshed version of the *MAYA44ex* [https://www.thomann.de/gb/esi_maya44_ex.htm] as a PCIe card and a USB Interface type* U86xt* [https://www.thomann.de/gb/esi_u86_xt.htm], which will support what you want to do. Downside: Just 24bit/96kHz max.

I personally don't want to have a PCI card anymore, but was looking for a more portable allrounder.
=> So i tried the* Roland Rubix 24* and got disappointed.
It has a nice look, nice metal casing, pretty neet options, BUT a miserable driver/control panel and again just one WDM multichanneling I/O under Windows.

What I know so far with some gaps:

I've seen a video on Youtube, where somebody was working with the *Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6* [youtube : EEok44nti3E?t=457] (MK1 or MK2?? don't know for sure) and he had multiple WDM devices under Windows.
But again there is a HUUUGE BUT. Because Ive heard from couple of tests that the NI Komplete Audio 6 is a slick looking Audio Interface, but it doesn' have a really solid casing, some minor -not nice to listen- boost in mid frequencies (compared to similar interfaces form presonus/scarlett/...), bad support, NOT EVEN A MANUAL (srsly...).
I'm not that pretty sure if the multiple devices under Windows got removed on the MK2.
[picture2]

What I've heard:

Best to go is *RME*. I don't know one single musician/engineer/producer who said that RME is sh..bad.
RME delivers a good set of drivers and good support, but in the other hand is not that cheap (500€< and up for normal). And to the point i know is that they aswell support multiple WDM channels.

I was looking forward to test the *Steinberg U44C, *because 4 analog outputs, USB 3.0 connectivity, 32bit/192kHz. But like you tested no multiple WDM devices under Windows so...

At the moment I am searching the internet for videos/forums for compability of the following Interfaces:
*- Scarlett 4i4 3rd gen.
- Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen.
- Scarlett 8i6 3rd gen.
- Presonus Studio 26c
- Presonus Studio 86c
- MOTU M4*

Cheers!


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## rrichard63 (Mar 15, 2020)

Darez said:


> At the moment I am searching the internet for videos/forums for compability of the following Interfaces:
> *- Scarlett 4i4 3rd gen.
> - Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen.
> - Scarlett 8i6 3rd gen.
> ...


I've had reasonably good luck with both Focusrite and Presonus tech support (on other issues). I'd suggest contacting them directly. I can't comment on MOTU's support, though.

I agree with everything you say about RME.


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## Darez (Mar 16, 2020)

rrichard63 said:


> I've had reasonably good luck with both Focusrite and Presonus tech support (on other issues). I'd suggest contacting them directly. I can't comment on MOTU's support, though.
> 
> I agree with everything you say about RME.


Focusrite seems like the way to go. Just captured a picture out of one of their FocusriteHelp video's, somehow proving that it's supported. [picture1]
I guess i'll call them tommorow.


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## EgM (Mar 16, 2020)

Darez said:


> Focusrite seems like the way to go. Just captured a picture out of one of their FocusriteHelp video's, somehow proving that it's supported. [picture1]
> I guess i'll call them tommorow.



Awesome!! Thank you Darez! Do you happen to know which model Focusrite it is?


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## Darez (Mar 17, 2020)

EgM said:


> Awesome!! Thank you Darez! Do you happen to know which model Focusrite it is?


Well good news on that. Had a nice chat with one of their technical support employee.
He stated that at the moment it is possible with the current BETA drivers and will be a feature in the next upcoming driver:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for getting in touch via chat today.

I can confirm that the next release driver will likely have multiple WDM inputs and outputs and will work with all Scarlett and Clarett USB interfaces. In the meantime, the BETA driver is perfectly fine to use.

I hope that answers your question fully, here is the link to the driver once again for your convenience:
http://beta.focusrite.com/file.php?id=1367 

Best regards
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll go for the Scarlett 8i6 3rd gen for now


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## sssseb (Jul 25, 2022)

Hello,

is there any news on this research?

I am also looking for a Interface which is able to provide at least 2 WDM channels under Windows10.
I need 1 for normal speaker and 1 for headphone out.
(And it must be at least supported in ubuntu as normal soundcard).

I can say that my old MOTU Microbook II has all these (3 separate WDM channels in total) .. but has driver problems in Linux -> bad for me.

I also tested some devices, which dont support multi WDM:
- Presonus Studio 26c
- Steinberg UR12
- Native Instruments Komplete Audio 1


IIRC, the "MOTU M2" did support at least 2 WDMs...


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## EgM (Jul 25, 2022)

For my customer's application that I coded for them on measure in 2020: 1 output from projector playing movies, and the 2nd running the PA announcing in the museum ceilings (both scheduled over time) I ended up using a Behringer UMC404HD and it has been working splendidly since then. I highly recommend it. This is government facility in Tourism.

It allowed me to use Output 1/2 and Output 3/4 independently from the Windows Mixer from different sources or from the same using different output ports, ALL in WDM.

Hope this helps


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## sssseb (Jul 26, 2022)

Darez said:


> Well good news on that. Had a nice chat with one of their technical support employee.
> He stated that at the moment it is possible with the current BETA drivers and will be a feature in the next upcoming driver:
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...



BTW, i also checked with Focusrite about this.
Their answer:
The Scarlett 8i6, Scarlett 18i8, Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen models will allow for independent control between the line outs and the headphone outs. The Scarlett 2i2 and the Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen do not offer such capability. 

There is also a way to expose all the WDM channels for the interface. You will simply need to follow the steps from the article below:

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en...t-inputs-outputs-in-non-ASIO-apps-on-Windows-


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## sssseb (Jul 26, 2022)

I would like to know if the Rubix24 could maybe support 2 WDM channels... hmm, who knows?


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