# Logic Pro 10.7.5 is here.



## shropshirelad (Nov 1, 2022)

Received via email a moment ago.








What's New in Logic Pro 10.7.5 Tutorial & Online Course - Logic Pro 100 Training Video By Ask.Video


Apple's Logic Pro 10.7.5 is here with a FREE update filled with new features and enhancements that users have been eagerly awaiting. Check out our 10-video cour




ask.video


----------



## Malaryjoe (Nov 1, 2022)

The updates look great. I can’t wait to see what they’re working on for 10.8 or 11. Maybe M series iPad compatibility???


----------



## Marsen (Nov 1, 2022)

_*Nested Track Stacks* - With its additional level of hierarchy, you can now place Track Stacks within a Track Stack. This makes for easier track management._

Finally…


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 1, 2022)

It's available if anyone hasn't downloaded yet.


----------



## Nimrod7 (Nov 1, 2022)

Just showed up:


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 1, 2022)

Marsen said:


> _*Nested Track Stacks* - With its additional level of hierarchy, you can now place Track Stacks within a Track Stack. This makes for easier track management._
> 
> Finally…


Just checked this out. It's only 1 level of nesting... Better than before no doubt, but it would be nice if you could nest more than one additional layer.


----------



## charlieclouser (Nov 1, 2022)

Ableton LINK!

I hope this will cure my heartbreak over ReWire being deprecated.... Although Link doesn't send audio between apps, so that's a major downside, meaning I'll have to route audio via hardware or software loopback.

... and it's not explicitly clear in the documentation if I can use Ableton and Logic via Link on a SINGLE computer, instead of the "group jam" layout with multiple computers that they seem to think is the selling point. I guess I'll just have to try and find out.

•• EDIT ••

Welp, so far Link is garbage. Although I'm relieved to find it DOES work to connect Logic and Ableton on a single computer. I may be setting something incorrectly somewhere, but in my current configuration the song position is NOT transmitted between apps. Yes, they stay in sync, but locating to a position in one app does nothing in the other app. Even worse, if Logic has Cycle enabled, when it loops around to the beginning of the Cycle Range, Ableton just keeps on playing - unless Cycle is enabled on it as well. This is really bad compared to ReWire, where the two transports behave as a single unit, permanently locked together in terms of Cycle on/off, Cycle Range, locate position, etc.

The Link workflow is missing 80% of what made ReWire so great. I am not happy.


----------



## Scottyb (Nov 1, 2022)

Quite a few things in this update that I'm super excited about! Free Record one of them.


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Nov 1, 2022)

Anyone noticing a lag when using the new recording with MIDI FX feature?


----------



## Scottyb (Nov 1, 2022)

The update hasn't even shown up for me yet, sadly!


----------



## Nimrod7 (Nov 1, 2022)

MusiquedeReve said:


> Anyone noticing a lag when using the new recording with MIDI FX feature?


Just tested it, no. Tested with just one Arp.
However I have it on my testing rig, which has nothing installed. M1 Max with Ventura.


----------



## GregSilver (Nov 1, 2022)

32bit audio. Finally! No more need to convert samples and stuff.


----------



## apollinaire (Nov 1, 2022)

GregSilver said:


> 32bit audio. Finally! No more need to convert samples and stuff.


geez....'bout time!


----------



## shropshirelad (Nov 1, 2022)

Scottyb said:


> The update hasn't even shown up for me yet, sadly!


Try going to the Logic Pro page rather than the updates page in App Store. Wasn't showing on my updates page.


----------



## Scottyb (Nov 1, 2022)

shropshirelad said:


> Try going to the Logic Pro page rather than the updates page in App Store. Wasn't showing on my updates page.


Ahhhh, yes! Will give that a try. Thanks!


----------



## jcrosby (Nov 1, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Ableton LINK!
> 
> I hope this will cure my heartbreak over ReWire being deprecated.... Although Link doesn't send audio between apps, so that's a major downside, meaning I'll have to route audio via hardware or software loopback.
> 
> ...


Yep, it will synch with Live on the same machine. As you mentioned, the downside is that you'll now need to figure out how you'll want to get audio out of Live, and into Logic. Also the transports aren't synched the way they were with Rewire... Still better than nothing though... 
(Timestamped video if you want a quick overview)...


----------



## Malaryjoe (Nov 1, 2022)

Heads up! All three Gullfoss plugins failed validation and Softube Marshall Plexi Super Lead 1959 crashed validation. Both worked with Ventura and 10.7.4 on my intel iMac. Reinstalling the Gullfosses solved the issue but not the Marshall. Still crashes validation. The rest of the AmpRoom plugs (and Softube) are fine.


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Nov 1, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> Just tested it, no. Tested with just one Arp.
> However I have it on my testing rig, which has nothing installed. M1 Max with Ventura.


Thanks - I will try again tonight and see if perhaps I was doing something wrong


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 1, 2022)

Officially supported nested track stacks is a game changer for big orchestral templates - finally!

The gain tool seems like a silly implementation though - they should support multiple nodes / points along the gain line, similar to clip gain in Pro Tools. Maybe that'll come in a future release now that the groundwork has been laid.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Nov 1, 2022)

Nested track stacks is huge! I had been toying with switching to Cubase for this alone, and almost made the switch during their last sale.

I do need to upgrade from MacOS Catalina though, but I was planning on doing that very soon anyways since it is now EOL.

Even if it is only one level of nesting as @Nimrod7 says, it will be fine for me.


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Nov 1, 2022)

Hmmmm my Settings (formerly Preferences), still only has 24-bit rather than 32-bit

Or, am I misunderstanding something?


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 1, 2022)

Bear in mind that is the file format not the DSP. Why do you need more than 24bit files?


----------



## Living Fossil (Nov 1, 2022)

MusiquedeReve said:


> Hmmmm my Settings (formerly Preferences), still only has 24-bit rather than 32-bit
> 
> Or, am I misunderstanding something?


You can bounce in 32bit.
And you can import and play files in 32bit.
For sure you don't need to record audio in 32bit.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Nov 1, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> Just checked this out. It's only 1 level of nesting... Better than before no doubt, but it would be nice if you could nest more than one additional layer.


Just wait until 2028 and we should get one more layer again


----------



## Mike Stone (Nov 1, 2022)

Malaryjoe said:


> Heads up! All three Gullfoss plugins failed validation and Softube Marshall Plexi Super Lead 1959 crashed validation. Both worked with Ventura and 10.7.4 on my intel iMac. Reinstalling the Gullfosses solved the issue but not the Marshall. Still crashes validation. The rest of the AmpRoom plugs (and Softube) are fine.


No worries, SoundTheory posted an update that fixed the issue (caused by MacOS Ventura, not 10.7.5).

Interestingly enough, 10.7.5 finally fixed the performance issues that have plagued 10.7 for me. Before I was stuck on 10.7.1.


----------



## Release (Nov 1, 2022)

Malaryjoe said:


> Heads up! All three Gullfoss plugins failed validation and Softube Marshall Plexi Super Lead 1959 crashed validation. Both worked with Ventura and 10.7.4 on my intel iMac. Reinstalling the Gullfosses solved the issue but not the Marshall. Still crashes validation. The rest of the AmpRoom plugs (and Softube) are fine.


It did the same thing here with the Plexi. I opened up Softube Central, clicked around aimlessly and then went back into Logic and it validated. No idea if that really did anything (or if it was just luck) but it worked.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 1, 2022)

You can play in without a click or any tempo reference and it lines it up for you automatically!

Fantastic feature.

You could always do that afterward, but this is what I've been wanting for years. Decades.


----------



## Malaryjoe (Nov 1, 2022)

Mike Stone said:


> No worries, SoundTheory posted an update that fixed the issue (caused by MacOS Ventura, not 10.7.5).
> 
> Interestingly enough, 10.7.5 finally fixed the performance issues that have plagued 10.7 for me. Before I was stuck on 10.7.1.


Must be why the reinstall worked.


----------



## Malaryjoe (Nov 1, 2022)

Release said:


> It did the same thing here with the Plexi. I opened up Softube Central, clicked around aimlessly and then went back into Logic and it validated. No idea if that really did anything (or if it was just luck) but it worked.


I messed around with it some more, doing my best to be aimless but no luck. Witchcraft!


----------



## Kslovelace (Nov 1, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Ableton LINK!
> 
> I hope this will cure my heartbreak over ReWire being deprecated.... Although Link doesn't send audio between apps, so that's a major downside, meaning I'll have to route audio via hardware or software loopback.
> 
> ...


I’m just curious if you have tried using the AIC bus to sync via MTC or midi clock (mtc tends to be tighter on my system).. 

As a long time lurker I know how much you love/advocate for rewire. And I agree it was great. But I out grew it long ago as max for live and third party plug ins weren’t accessible when live was slaved and the things I wanted to accomplish became hard to do with rewire. 

Though I use Cubase + Ableton combo these days, I used logic + Ableton like this for a few years with relatively little hassle. 

It is certainly not without its own issues but is another method that I rarely see mentioned whenever the conversation of rewire replacements comes up.


----------



## charlieclouser (Nov 1, 2022)

Kslovelace said:


> I’m just curious if you have tried using the AIC bus to sync via MTC or midi clock (mtc tends to be tighter on my system)..


I've used IAC busses for inter-app MIDI and sync for decades, and it works just fine. Problems versus ReWire:

• Live doesn't receive MTC, it only receives MIDI Beat Clock. Which in this case is actually an advantage, since any complex tempo map created in Logic will drive Ableton just as it would with ReWire. Another advantage to this limitation is that if you're syncing two tempo-based DAWs with MTC, you need to duplicate the tempo map from DAW-A inside DAW-B. Yes, you could export a MIDI file from DAW-A that includes the tempo map, and import it into DAW-B, and repeat that operation every time you tweak the tempo map in DAW-A, but just typing that out makes me want to jump off a cliff. Yet another advantage to this limitation is that Logic can still be slaved to incoming MTC (from my separate ProTools stem recorder) while it is simultaneously sending MIDI Beat Clock to Live, AND sending MTC to VideoSync on the third computer. That's all fine. So I guess it's a good thing Live can't receive MTC!

• But with either MTC or MIDI Beat Clock, only one app is the master. In this situation, typically Logic would be the master while Live is the slave. That means you must always locate / play / stop from Logic, which is a hassle when Live is the foreground app. Yes, it's possible to use a control surface like MCU to control locate and transport controls for Logic even when Live is the foreground app, or even use generic MIDI events from a Novation LaunchControl or whatever to activate Logic's transport controls while it's in the background, but... ugh. And constantly switching over to Logic to set a Cycle Range is a drag, but with ReWire you can set the Cycle Range. "Play From" position in either app, and transport controls in either app control BOTH apps. This is how it should be.

• Of course, inter-app MIDI and audio pipelines can be done via IAC / BlackHole / SoundFlower / whatever, but that's just more ugliness. In these situations, I simply tell Live to use a pair of outputs that go to an S/PDIF output on my MOTU rig, loop a cable back to the S/PDIF input, and record in Logic from that input. Hardware loopback, if you will.

I can deal with all of those hurdles, but the lack of linked Cycle Range / Play From / transport controls is the buzz-killer of the century. When I'm in ReWire mode I am absolutely HAMMERING on those controls at very high speeds. 

I did a little digging and the "edit Live's Preferences file in a text editor" trick that re-enables ReWire still works in Live v11, and the ReWire kernel does still work on Apple Silicon, so the whole shebang is still operational.... for now.

Another terrible thing about Ableton Link is that it's a sync mode in Logic, so you CAN NOT have Logic slaved to incoming MTC while also sending Link. This pretty much rules out any use of Link in my world. ReWire, on the other hand, is not one of Logic's sync modes - it's an entirely separate and parallel sync engine that functions regardless of whether Logic is on internal clock or slaved to MTC or even MIDI Beat Clock. Link won't do that. 

Yet another truly awful thing about Link is that it causes ALL connected DAWs, even the master (Logic) to wait for the next downbeat before play begins. The current tempo of the master DAW is always running, and when you hit play on any DAW, they all will wait until the next downbeat to begin playback!!! So no more hitting the space bar "on the beat" to start Logic playback while free-balling it against picture or anything else. And having that "wait until next downbeat" every time you initiate playback in Logic makes me want to take early retirement.

So Ableton Link is a fucking dog and is no replacement for ReWire, that's for sure. I guess it's for a bunch of laptop jockeys having a loops-n-LAN party? No real application for it in my world.


----------



## milamu (Nov 1, 2022)

with MacOS 11.7.1 I don't see the 10.7.5 version in the App-Store, do I need MacOS 12.x ?
Thanks Mike


----------



## Malaryjoe (Nov 1, 2022)

milamu said:


> with MacOS 11.7.1 I don't see the 10.7.5 version in the App-Store, do I need MacOS 12.x ?
> Thanks Mike


12.3 minimum. What’s keeping you from just going to Ventura? Don’t like the new wallpaper? Does Big Sur sound “warmer” and more “analog”?


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Nov 2, 2022)

Regarding nested track stacks, earlier versions let you nest multiple summing stacks into one folder stack. But not multiple summing stacks into another summing stack.

Now that summing stacks can be nested inside another summing stack, can anyone confirm whether those nested summing stacks can be nested one step further into a folder stack?

So, earlier versions allowed this:


```
Folder stack {
    Summing stack 1 {
        Track 1
        Track 2
    }
    Summing stack 2 {
        Track 1
        Track 2
    }
}
```

But can version 10.7.5 do this:


```
Folder stack {
    Summing stack 1 {
        Summing stack 1A {
            Track 1
            Track 2
        }
        Summing stack 1B {
            Track 1
            Track 2
         }
    }
    Summing stack 2 {
        Summing stack 2A {
            Track 1
            Track 2
        }
        Summing stack 2B {
            Track 1
            Track 2
        }
    }
}
```


----------



## Nimrod7 (Nov 2, 2022)

MusiquedeReve said:


> Hmmmm my Settings (formerly Preferences), still only has 24-bit rather than 32-bit
> 
> Or, am I misunderstanding something?


I believe your audio interface needs to support 32 bit.
I know many field recorders do, like this one, and my Univerrsal Audio for example supports up to 24-bit/192 kHz.

Despite the support of the audio interface, Logic also needs to support 32 bit recording. If anyone can confirm that it will be great.


----------



## babylonwaves (Nov 2, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> I believe your audio interface needs to support 32 bit.


No - the mixer in Logic is floating point and the interface doesn't need to support all bit depths natively.


----------



## Nimrod7 (Nov 2, 2022)

babylonwaves said:


> No - the mixer in Logic is floating point and the interface doesn't need to support all bit depths natively.


Is that the case for recording? 
I am curious how that works if the A/D converters are not 32 bit? 

E.g. this is my UA Apollo specs: 






There is a thread on gearspace also, still going through it.


----------



## babylonwaves (Nov 2, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> Is that the case for recording?
> I am curious how that works if the A/D converters are not 32 bit?


I misunderstood what you wrote, sorry. Of course, when recording in 32-bit you should use an A/D converter that supports this bit depth. I was talking about the playback.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 2, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Regarding nested track stacks, earlier versions let you nest multiple summing stacks into one folder stack. But not multiple summing stacks into another summing stack.
> 
> Now that summing stacks can be nested inside another summing stack, can anyone confirm whether those nested summing stacks can be nested one step further into a folder stack?



Doesn't look like it. It used to be possible to hack one together too using a roundabout method, but that seems to be blocked now too.... What we seem to get now are two levels deep of nesting, folder or summing.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 2, 2022)

Malaryjoe said:


> 12.3 minimum. What’s keeping you from just going to Ventura? Don’t like the new wallpaper? Does Big Sur sound “warmer” and more “analog”?



That's pretty cavalier!

Cherry Audio sent around an email advising people not to update to Ventura yet. They can't be alone.

Usually people running Big Sur have machines that won't run Ventura. My previous one wouldn't run Mojave without an updated video card, and it couldn't run Catalina without a bunch of unsupported boot ROM backward-cap crap that I wasn't interested in.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Nov 2, 2022)

Ventura and Logic combo running fine here. Spitfire/Kontakt all good. Can’t speak for any other third parties etc.


----------



## Malaryjoe (Nov 2, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> That's pretty cavalier!
> 
> Cherry Audio sent around an email advising people not to update to Ventura yet. They can't be alone.
> 
> Usually people running Big Sur have machines that won't run Ventura. My previous one wouldn't run Mojave without an updated video card, and it couldn't run Catalina without a bunch of unsupported boot ROM backward-cap crap that I wasn't interested in.


Maybe, but I also think some people have unnecessary upgrade paranoia, in part, because of the Monterey, AS transition headache. Plus, there’s a lot of conventional wisdom about waiting to upgrade being passed down by pros who rightfully are afraid of breaking current or even past projects that shouldn‘t necessarily be followed by everyone. I think the reality is that staying current has its advantages too because old OSes have their own issues and some of them have been resolved in newer version. And, I don’t think anyone’s really working on Big Sur problems anymore. Their attention is on the new stuff. Finally, it seems like Ventura and 10.7.5 are offering real performance gains.


----------



## fiction (Nov 2, 2022)

I just decided to go from Catalina to Big Sur two months ago and already need to go Monterey for this update. 

I don't like to upgrade OS that often but this update really improves workflow and organisation so it will have to be done.


----------



## apollinaire (Nov 2, 2022)

fiction said:


> I don't like to upgrade OS that often but this update really improves workflow and organisation so it will have to be done.


I could really use these new feature as well, but I am still on Catalina. What's the general consensus these days on Monterey and 3rd party software compatibility? I'm still on Intel Mac's.


----------



## studioj (Nov 2, 2022)

ha, they killed Big Sur already too? This is a big reason I stopped using Logic last year. I like new features, but don't like to upgrade OS's very often, too many compatibility problems. I am also still on Catalina and won't be moving until perhaps a new apple silicon Mac Pro comes about.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 2, 2022)

Malaryjoe said:


> Maybe, but I also think some people have unnecessary upgrade paranoia, in part, because of the Monterey, AS transition headache. Plus, there’s a lot of conventional wisdom about waiting to upgrade being passed down by pros who rightfully are afraid of breaking current or even past projects that shouldn‘t necessarily be followed by everyone. I think the reality is that staying current has its advantages too because old OSes have their own issues and some of them have been resolved in newer version. And, I don’t think anyone’s really working on Big Sur problems anymore. Their attention is on the new stuff. Finally, it seems like Ventura and 10.7.5 are offering real performance gains.











Should You Update to macOS Ventura?


Look before you leap, because haste makes waste and an Apple update another day keeps the doctor away Apple released a new version of macOS on Monday, called Ventura. It is safe to update? The only company that has circulated an email – as far as we know – warning about macOS Ventura is Cherry […]




synthandsoftware.com





It's not paranoia, it's rational caution. This is a case of the conventional wisdom being right more often than not.

And as a practical matter, you haven't even been able to run the latest versions of Logic on Mojave for at least a year anyway, probably longer, never mind Big Sur.

I personally would like to start off with my new Mac running the latest macOS - after all, it would ship with it if I bought it today rather than a few weeks ago - but I'm waiting to go from Monterey at least until Cherry Audio gives the all-clear.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 2, 2022)

Security updates are another matter, of course. I do those without asking questions (although I do have back-ups).

For that matter I let my iPhone and Apple Watch update automatically, or I do the updates right away. Same with my laptop, which I only use for general computer things. But not on a Mac you rely on to get work done.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Nov 2, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Security updates are another matter, of course. I do those without asking questions (although I do have back-ups).
> 
> For that matter I let my iPhone and Apple Watch update automatically, or I do the updates right away. Same with my laptop, which I only use for general computer things. But not on a Mac you rely on to get work done.


100% agreed. I use whatever version of MacOS that came with my machine until it goes EOL, then I upgrade to one version behind the current version. So that was Catalina with my iMac, which I am still running right now. Since it is now EOL, I will be upgrading to Monterey in the near future.

Security updates I install immediately. MacOS continues to get security updates until it is goes EOL. I just had a security update for Catalina in late July actually.

There would have to be a _really_ breakthrough 'killer feature' in the latest version of MacOS to make me consider using the current version. The way I do things, by the time I upgrade, all or nearly all of the kinks and incompatibilities have been ironed out. In the off case that there is an incompatibility due to a developer not updating their software, I look for alternatives before I upgrade.

This method has been pretty much flawless for me.


----------



## fiction (Nov 2, 2022)

apollinaire said:


> I could really use these new feature as well, but I am still on Catalina. What's the general consensus these days on Monterey and 3rd party software compatibility? I'm still on Intel Mac's.


From what I've gathered Monterey should be stable with everything by now. 

I don't mind upgrading but it's very unfortunate to be forced to do it just to be able to go from 10.7.4 to 10.7.5.


----------



## Nimrod7 (Nov 2, 2022)

fiction said:


> From what I've gathered Monterey should be stable with everything by now.
> 
> I don't mind upgrading but it's very unfortunate to be forced to do it just to be able to go from 10.7.4 to 10.7.5.


Monterey is stable on my (Intel Mac) system. I have over 1700 AUs (yes I know, I need to clean it up).
It actually feels better than Big Sur.

GeForce plugins for example they had an issue with Big Sur and the GUI was not loading correctly. GeForce said is an OS bug that (Apple) fixed in Monterey, and they were right, I updated and it was gone.

Also try backing up to a time machine, do the update, test, if you're unhappy you can always roll back. Worst scenario is that you will loose a few days backing up / restoring to a previous version.


----------



## HCMarkus (Nov 2, 2022)

MainStage Update dropped as well. MainStage is my live keyboard sound source. 

Running on an M1 MacBook Air, new version 3.6.2 seems happy.


----------



## GingerMaestro (Nov 2, 2022)

Hi, Has anyone update to Logic and/or Ventura specifically on a Macbook Pro M1 Max 64Gb etc...I've been having major issues particularly with Kontakt since I bought my new computer and really hope these updates might fix all that ? Thanks in anticipation


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 2, 2022)

Monterey has been stable on my Mac Studio too.

By the way - not that anyone cares (I hope!) - I got Big Sur and High Sierra confused. Big Sur was after Mojave.

So that means I was using Mojave for four years.


----------



## rsg22 (Nov 2, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Security updates I install immediately. MacOS continues to get security updates until it is goes EOL. I just had a security update for Catalina in late July actually.


It’s important to know that only the most recent macOS is fully protected with security updates. Apple just clarified this recently. 









Apple clarifies security update policy: Only the latest OSes are fully patched


New document confirms what security researchers have observed for a few years.




arstechnica.com


----------



## Alex Fraser (Nov 2, 2022)

I've upgraded MacOS more or less immediately for about half a decade now. I even scored an hour long film last month on the Ventura public beta - although that was bad planning on my part (!)


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 2, 2022)

fiction said:


> From what I've gathered Monterey should be stable with everything by now.
> 
> I don't mind upgrading but it's very unfortunate to be forced to do it just to be able to go from 10.7.4 to 10.7.5.



You only need Monterey in order to run the latest logic pro. My gut feeling is that 10.8 will require ventura around the time the next OS version comes out this time next year.

Even some features related to atmos only work now if you are on Ventura.

I also highly recommend running one year behind at least from apple’s latest major OS version. It takes half that much time just for all third party software to catch up it. 

In the past Apple has allowed logic pro to run on OS two versions behind but they seem to tightening that gap, which I think is a mistake but what do I know. Part of why I am switching to DP which by the way runs on much older MacOS.


----------



## Malaryjoe (Nov 2, 2022)

Alex Fraser said:


> I've upgraded MacOS more or less immediately for about half a decade now. I even scored an hour long film last month on the Ventura public beta - although that was bad planning on my part (!)


----------



## jonathanwright (Nov 3, 2022)

GingerMaestro said:


> Hi, Has anyone update to Logic and/or Ventura specifically on a Macbook Pro M1 Max 64Gb etc...I've been having major issues particularly with Kontakt since I bought my new computer and really hope these updates might fix all that ? Thanks in anticipation


I’m on Logic/Ventura here, M1 Max, no issues I’ve found so far. Kontakt works normally.


----------



## GingerMaestro (Nov 3, 2022)

jonathanwright said:


> I’m on Logic/Ventura here, M1 Max, no issues I’ve found so far. Kontakt works normally.


Thank you ! I upgraded Logic last night, seemed maybe a bit more stable, will do Ventura this morning. The issue I am having is clicks and pops and the playhead stalling ever so slightly at times. Seems fine when I start a project for a few mins, but then as time goes on gets worse. 

I also noticed the Disk i/o seems to be popping up at times like 10% but I've not noticed that before. I have all audio settings set to max etc...

May this be a hardware issue ? I feel it may be something regarding how Logic distributes amongst the Cores. When I use less cores, I feel performance improve. I'm not running a big template.

Any insight would be appreciated
Thanks


----------



## jonathanwright (Nov 3, 2022)

GingerMaestro said:


> Thank you ! I upgraded Logic last night, seemed maybe a bit more stable, will do Ventura this morning. The issue I am having is clicks and pops and the playhead stalling ever so slightly at times. Seems fine when I start a project for a few mins, but then as time goes on gets worse.
> 
> I also noticed the Disk i/o seems to be popping up at times like 10% but I've not noticed that before. I have all audio settings set to max etc...
> 
> ...


That does sound very unusual and not something I've experienced, even before upgrading.

That said, I did have a few wobbles way back, which seemed to be connected to running Logic in native mode rather than Rosetta. Some plugins seemed to struggle with that.

Also, make sure that 'MIDI 2.0' is not checked in settings; that caused an awful lot of instability and plugin problems on my system.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 3, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> You only need Monterey in order to run the latest logic pro. My gut feeling is that 10.8 will require ventura around the time the next OS version comes out this time next year.
> 
> Even some features related to atmos only work now if you are on Ventura.
> 
> I also highly recommend running one year behind at least from apple’s latest major OS version. It takes half that much time just for all third party software to catch up it.



The key word is "major." Ventura probably doesn't fall into that category, at least not as far as music and audio software is concerned.

Or does it? We civilians don't have any way of knowing.

The one thing I wonder about is Metal 3. What does that mean as a practical matter?




Dewdman42 said:


> In the past Apple has allowed logic pro to run on OS two versions behind but they seem to tightening that gap, which I think is a mistake but what do I know. Part of why I am switching to DP which by the way runs on much older MacOS.



A friend who works for Apple (and used to work on Logic documentation) would respond with technical reasons for that. He is prejudiced by the way his bread being buttered, but he's had a totally reasonable explanation every time I've groused about not being able to run the latest version of Logic.

It irritated the f out of me when Logic was the only program I rely on that wouldn't run on my 5,1, but he always had a good answer.

Having said that, I'm sure DP is as good, just different.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 3, 2022)

since you quoted me....



Nick Batzdorf said:


> The key word is "major." Ventura probably doesn't fall into that category, at least not as far as music and audio software is concerned.



you don't like my word choice and I don't particularly care but since you quoted me...MacOS is typically released with up to three numerical digits: x.x.x

The first x is a "major" update. That is like from Monterey to Ventura... 12 to 13. And yes that is major. I has nothing to do with how much work was involved behind the scenes, that is irrelevant, it has to do with the amount of new features, the amount of compatibility that Apple chooses to draw a line in the sand around, changes in architecture, etc.. Every change in the first x, is a major release...and should be done conservatively...as I said before, I typically run my Mac a year behind schedule on that first x. Ie....major updates. Third parties will generally lag behind getting their stuff updated to run on the last "major" release... and depending on what you're running this can take half a year! That alone is reason to wait.

When the other two X's change...its more of a minor release and generally no problem to update your OS.

Regarding your new Studio I think it will run Ventura just fine, but you still need to be concerned about all the third party software you use.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> It irritated the f out of me when Logic was the only program I rely on that wouldn't run on my 5,1, but he always had a good answer.
> 
> Having said that, I'm sure DP is as good, just different.



LogicPro does not need to have that requirement, your friend is full of it. They could easily choose to implement things in such a way as to preserve much more backwards compatibility then they do, but that is been part of apple culture for decades to NOT EVEN TRY to do so. The other daws are generally all able to add many features while maintaining much more backwards compatibility then Apple does. On top of that, Apple has a clear conflict of interest...backwards compatibility does not earn them new revenue nearly as much as forcing everyone to upgrade their hardware constantly does. Pretty nice selling model they have there, but technically..bah..your friend is full of it. There is no technical reason. it is always a matter of what Apple is willing to do. And for the most part they have never been willing to preserve backwards compatibility. it is a clear and present pattern with them going back decades. They have so sold this mindset to themselves that they will even evangelize to you about why skipping backwards compatibility is somehow better for you. its not! Its easier for them.

By the way I'm still running the latest LogicPro on my 5,1. Screw what apple says..they are full of it anytime they want to sell you something new.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 3, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> you don't like my word choice and I don't particularly care


Is that what it sounded like?

I have absolutely no problem with your word choice, nor am I impugning the strength of your pee stream.

All I'm saying is that some updates have been major and some not. For example, going from Sierra to High Sierra wasn't major, if I remember right, and there wasn't much reason to give it a years. But going past Mojave meant giving up 32-bit programs.



Dewdman42 said:


> Regarding your new Studio I think it will run Ventura just fine, but you still need to be concerned about all the third party software you use.


Not only will it run Ventura just fine, it is now shipping with it installed.

And no shit I have to be concerned with the third-party software I use! As I posted, Cherry Audio circulated an email saying not to update.









Should You Update to macOS Ventura?


Look before you leap, because haste makes waste and an Apple update another day keeps the doctor away Apple released a new version of macOS on Monday, called Ventura. It is safe to update? The only company that has circulated an email – as far as we know – warning about macOS Ventura is Cherry […]




synthandsoftware.com







Dewdman42 said:


> LogicPro does not need to have that requirement, your friend is full of it. They could easily choose to implement things in such a way as to preserve much more backwards compatibility then they do, but that is been part of apple culture for decades to NOT EVEN TRY to do so.


A a matter of fact he isn't full of it. He had a totally reasonable technical explanation every time.

I'm not saying that to be an Apple Zombie at all, I'm saying that he was able to come up with a reason for me to stop twitching whenever I said what you're saying.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 3, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I'm not saying that to be an Apple Zombie at all, I'm saying that he was able to come up with a reason for me to stop twitching whenever I said what you're saying.



He is an apple zombie though hehe

by the way I have several apple employee friends going over decades...every last one of them....zombie


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 3, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> By the way I'm still running the latest LogicPro on my 5,1. Screw what apple says..they are full of it anytime they want to sell you something new.


Presumably because you're running OpenCore or whatever it is?

If so I have no idea what it would involve for Apple to make that official. But I wasn't willing to take the risk of running an unsupported macOS. I'd sooner build a Hackintosh, but that's just me (meaning that's my tolerance of risk, not that it's the only reasonable conclusion).


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 3, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> He is an apple zombie though hehe


In some ways, absolutely, in others he's not.

You know the saying: "It's hard to convince a man of something when his paycheck depends on his not understanding it," or something like that.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 3, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Presumably because you're running OpenCore or whatever it is?
> 
> If so I have no idea what it would involve for Apple to make that official. But I wasn't willing to take the risk of running an unsupported macOS. I'd sooner build a Hackintosh, but that's just me (meaning that's my tolerance of risk, not that it's the only reasonable conclusion).


And Ventura will not ever run on the 5,1 by the way even with OpenCore, it truly is a "major" update..a lot of Macs are going to fall off the list of even being able to use Opencore to run Ventura reliably.


----------



## Nate Johnson (Nov 3, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Nick Batzdorf said:
> 
> 
> > You can play in without a click or any tempo reference and it lines it up for you automatically!
> ...





Nick Batzdorf said:


> You can play in without a click or any tempo reference and it lines it up for you automatically!
> 
> Fantastic feature.
> 
> You could always do that afterward, but this is what I've been wanting for years. Decades.


THIS

I definitely gotta update now!


----------



## Nimrod7 (Nov 3, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> A a matter of fact he isn't full of it. He had a totally reasonable technical explanation every time.


I had glimpses myself into Apple (through previous co-workers and pre-Covid visits to WWDC which there is access to Apple engineers) and my experience is similar. They have good technical reasons. 

They can probably develop whatever they need and still keep backward compatibility, but those kind of massive software code bases are in risk of cluttering if you don’t constantly cleanup and move forward. Also higher risk of bugs which for Apple is a red flag for their systems to appear unstable (not that they are future proof now, it will just be worst if they don’t do so).

See what happened to Kontakt.


----------



## oeholmen (Nov 3, 2022)

shropshirelad said:


> Received via email a moment ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Testing this weekend


----------



## oeholmen (Nov 3, 2022)

Nate Johnson said:


> THIS
> 
> I definitely gotta update now!


Ah, very cool! Can’t wait to test that.


----------



## jonathanwright (Nov 4, 2022)

My personal (and completely uninformed) opinion, is that Apple are heading towards all of their apps - Logic, Final Cut, etc - working across all devices, from macOS to iOS and iPadOS. Carrying Logic around on an iPhone or iPad, and plugging it into an external monitor whenever you need it.

In the process this may mean backward compatibility has to be sacrificed for forward compatibility.

As I say, I could be completely wrong, but it’s just the impression I get.


----------



## CShorte (Nov 4, 2022)

fiction said:


> From what I've gathered Monterey should be stable with everything by now.
> 
> I don't mind upgrading but it's very unfortunate to be forced to do it just to be able to go from 10.7.4 to 10.7.5.


The Monterey v12.6.1 dropped support for NI Kore. The Kore controller was dropped several years ago but the software was still useable.


----------



## GingerMaestro (Nov 4, 2022)

GingerMaestro said:


> Thank you ! I upgraded Logic last night, seemed maybe a bit more stable, will do Ventura this morning. The issue I am having is clicks and pops and the playhead stalling ever so slightly at times. Seems fine when I start a project for a few mins, but then as time goes on gets worse.
> 
> I also noticed the Disk i/o seems to be popping up at times like 10% but I've not noticed that before. I have all audio settings set to max etc...
> 
> ...


Hey again,
Thanks all for your assistance. This maybe a bit crazy, but I think the issues I've been having are related to the USB C cable to my Samsung SSD Drive. I swapped out the cable for a Thunderbolt 3 40gb cable and things seem to be running much smoother without crackles and pops etc...Is that even a thing ? Has anyone had a similar experience ?

Anyhow fingers crossed, things seem more stable...Thank you


----------



## Nimrod7 (Nov 5, 2022)

GingerMaestro said:


> Thanks all for your assistance. This maybe a bit crazy, but I think the issues I've been having are related to the USB C cable to my Samsung SSD Drive. I swapped out the cable for a Thunderbolt 3 40gb cable and things seem to be running much smoother without crackles and pops etc...Is that even a thing ? Has anyone had a similar experience ?


I did had issues with Samsung drives myself:





Issue with Samsung T5 & T7 on a Mac when downloading Libraries (RESOLVED).


Hey all, I am facing a really weird issue. I have 5 in total external drives, a mix of Samsung T5s and Samsung T7s connected each on a different thunderbolt port on a Mac Pro 2019. When using the drives to stream samples, via Kontakt, Sine, Spitfire Player, they behave correctly to normal DAW...




vi-control.net





It's more stable with the Element Hub in between but not resolved. Still have issues but not that crazy.
I am not sure of the reason, probably what's mentioned in my thread.
The cable that you changed might indeed make a difference.


----------



## GingerMaestro (Nov 5, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> I did had issues with Samsung drives myself:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi @Nimrod7 Thanks for the info...Interesting, I've had issues with regular USB power on another computer in the past and am indeed running my ilok Key, Audio Interface & slider from a powered hub..

So the Element Hub you talk of is the one below ? I think this might be worth a try as well. I've been looking for a faster hub anyway...

Can anyone recommend the fastest SSD drive they are using at the moment. when I google it, the SansDisk ones seem to come out on top.

Thanks
GM


----------



## Nimrod7 (Nov 5, 2022)

GingerMaestro said:


> So the Element Hub you talk of is the one below ? I think this might be worth a try as well. I've been looking for a faster hub anyway...


Yep that's it!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 5, 2022)

GingerMaestro said:


> Hi @Nimrod7 Thanks for the info...Interesting, I've had issues with regular USB power on another computer in the past and am indeed running my ilok Key, Audio Interface & slider from a powered hub..
> 
> So the Element Hub you talk of is the one below ? I think this might be worth a try as well. I've been looking for a faster hub anyway...
> 
> ...




Three things.

1. 4TB drives similar to the one above sell for about $60 more.

2. No Macs that I know of support USB 3.2 Gen 2, which is up to 2000 MB/S - and why that USB 3.2.2 drive is able to spec it. The Mac Studio's USB ports jump from USB 3.1 (10 MB/S) to USB 4.0/Thunderbolt (40GB/S), for example.

3. Ergo you don't care which drive is the fastest.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 5, 2022)

I'm personally rolling back LogicPro to 10.7.4 until further notice. Apple broke compatibility with VePro7.AU3 plugin which is entirely broken under LogicPro 10.7.5. That is a show stopper for me.

Rather strange that they broke that plugin while simultaneously fixing one of the bugs in LogicPro related to creating many AU3 tracks across ports... hehe. Oh well...at least they fixed that thing, but the only AU3 plugin that anyone is really using on the Mac is VePro7 and now its broken...so....


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 5, 2022)

Last time I tried the AU3 version of VE Pro, it flat out didn't work. That was a long time ago, but I've been using the regular AU version.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 5, 2022)

You weren’t using it right I told a long time ago how to make it work. Numerous people have been using it fine until now. LogicPro 10.7.5 completely broke it and Vsl has already acknowledged this through support emails in the past few days


----------



## Alex Fraser (Nov 5, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> You weren’t using it right I told a long time ago how to make it work. Numerous people have been using it fine until now. LogicPro 10.7.5 completely broke it and Vsl has already acknowledged this through support emails in the past few days


A graphic demonstration of where the music making market is, then. Apple rolls out new features to aid Ableton workflows, but forgets about VSL.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 5, 2022)

More than likely it’s an oversight of some kind, when Apple added AU3 support to LogicPro numerous things were overlooked, rendering AU3 support in LogicPro as pretty much beta quality. Little by little they have addressed some of those things but AU3 support in LogicPro has generally been incomplete and half baked. Ironic since AU3 is Apple’s specification, not VSL’s. And just like steinberg’s vst, hardly anyone has upgraded their plugins to AU3 except on iOS. Vepro happens to be one of the only AU3 plugins because it benefits greatly from multi input ports. Vsl also labeled it officially as beta. This does not mean it’s being left behind or abandoned, it means it’s still in development for the future.

We don’t know the source code as to why vepro broke with this LogicPro update. It could very well be bugs in LogicPro, or it could be vsl had to do some hack around since LogicPro previously was not entirely supporting its own AU3 capability; and now maybe Apple fixed LogicPro to be “proper” and broke vepro7. I’m just hypothesizing, we don’t know. Point is it could be apple’s problem to fix or could be vsl’s problem to fix; but until further notice AU3 is no longer usable with LogicPro 10.7.5. Well at least vepro is broken. I only have one other AU3 plug-in: midifxfreeze which I should have tried before rolling back LogicPro but I’ll leave that for someone else to figure out; I’m sticking with 10.7.4 until these problems are resolved.


----------



## Loïc D (Nov 6, 2022)

Anyone has performance issues with nested folder tracks?

I organized my template using the 2-level (around 400 tracks).
New template loading time : 45s and 5Gb in RAM
Old template : 2s and 500Mb in RAM.
Exactly the same instruments & routing.

Logic hangs out sometimes when copying tracks by drag’n’drop too.

I’ll keep 10.7.5 which works well otherwise but will stay away of nested folder tracks.


----------



## re-peat (Nov 6, 2022)

There’s two things that have been changed since LogicPro 9 became LogicPro 10 — the former is still a vivid memory since it hasn’t been all that long since I made the switch — and which Apple, for reasons only known to themselves, seems to stick to, and those are: *(1)* the severely limited Color Palette (severely limited compared to what it used to be) and *(2)* the incomprehensible decision to make the MasterOut sit all the way down at the bottom of the tracklist (in the Arrange Window), whence it can’t be moved. For neither I can come up with even a hint of argumentation that makes any sense.

Everytime there’s an update, those are the first things I look for: has the Color Palette been restored to its former glory, and is the position of the MasterOut no longer fixed at the bottom of the tracklist? It hasn’t happened with 10.7.5 and I don’t have much hope that it ever will, and this I find really strange as both would improve working with Logic substantially. In my opinion anyway.

I know that by routing everything to a bus instead of the MasterOut (and from that bus into the MasterOut), you can have a substitute for the MasterOut anywhere you like in the tracklist — which is exactly how I have it set up since moving to Logic 10 — but that still doesn’t help in those cases where you want or need to automate the MasterOut (say, for a fade-out) or any plugin that might be instantiated there. If, as I often have, you happen to have a lot of 'No Output'-tracks (where you place regions that you don’t immediately need or that already have been bounced to audio), it can take some serious scrolling before you reach the MasterOut. And again … why?

The limitations of the Color Palette can be somewhat countered by using Logic Colorizer but that software can only do so much, which, alas, isn’t a lot. At least, it allows you to make the colors less loud, which is something.

_


----------



## samphony (Nov 6, 2022)

Oh hell yes I remember all prior Logic versions vividly. I still have the packages of Logic EXS, EVP88 and 
Soundtrack Pro in the basement 

Especially the fact that Logic prior to v10 didn’t allow the user - who lives mainly in the arrangement view/ tracks view - to select multiple tracks at once!

I do miss Logic 7’s Database Browser sometimes, which got axed with Logic Pro 8.


----------



## SupremeFist (Nov 6, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> Yep that's it!


Using an Element hub here with a variety of T5/T7 drives hanging off it: rock-solid.


----------



## Karmand (Nov 7, 2022)

10.7.5 not working well with VEP7 - While troubleshooting with Divisimate people they confirmed issues with the two. No other word from me at this point - I've been troubleshooting all weekend. Time to roll back and work now.


----------



## Bear Market (Nov 7, 2022)

re-peat said:


> here’s two things that have been changed since LogicPro 9 became LogicPro 10 — the former is still a vivid memory since it hasn’t been all that long since I made the switch — and which Apple, for reasons only known to themselves, seems to stick to, and those are: *(1)* the severely limited Color Palette (severely limited compared to what it used to be) and *(2)* the incomprehensible decision to make the MasterOut sit all the way down at the bottom of the tracklist (in the Arrange Window), whence it can’t be moved. For neither I can come up with even a hint of argumentation that makes any sense.


I hear you. The first grievance can be remedied by using this nifty tool though:









LPX Colorizer


The Logic Pro styling app




www.creationauts.com


----------



## dgburns (Nov 7, 2022)

@re-peat Man oh man, how many times have I provided feedback to Apple about that damn Master. I think there must be people who work top down, where the last tracks are the subs going into the Master fader. I work the other way, the top track is my Master, then subs, then source tracks. Funny, cause in the mixer, they put the Master far right, not far left.
Colourizer is my friend, I have the app looking the way I want. Well, as best I can with what colourizer will allow.

@Dewdman42 So I bailed on the Au3 version of Vepro after setting up a template only to find out all sorts of issues, like stuck notes etc etc. I searched and found one guy online who had created a nice simple transformer that allows the old one port system to access the multiple ports. i know you know this hack, and many have thought it was the lousier way to go, given the event limit of an object in LPX. Gotta say however, that this setup with the new transformer is working well for me. It is not done the same way the Vienna transformer was done, it is a different method from what I can tell. I like it. It allows me to cable midi objects to the instrument that has the vepro plugin. It takes way less real estate on the screen in the environment, and I can leave tons of stuff offline by simply not connecting the Vepro connection. It will be a long time before I abandon this approach. Note that I am still Catalina and 10.6.? cause I have other hardware reasons not to upgrade to latest.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 7, 2022)

Show us what you’re using


----------



## dgburns (Nov 7, 2022)

@Dewdman42 Not sure you directed that question at me? If so, here's what I'm using, see the screen shots. The open transformer is port 1, showing how they are all set. I can't open the Vienna transformers, they are protected, but I'm told this is not how they were set up.
Also, the top transformer 'to instr' just let's everything pass through.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 7, 2022)

Can you please share the project to have a look at it? I can tell you that there are problems with this that will show up for you eventually. There are bugs in the transformer that will show up in certain situations with dropped and hanging notes. But good luck if yours working well for you then by all means enjoy yourself.


----------



## dgburns (Nov 7, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Can you please share the project to have a look at it? I can tell you that there are problems with this that will show up for you eventually. There are bugs in the transformer that will show up in certain situations with dropped and hanging notes. But good luck if yours working well for you then by all means enjoy yourself.


Sharing the template is not gonna happen, sorry. That said, it's been the best approach for me. I just couldn't make the Au3 thing work. In fact the whole idea behind this new template was to go all AU3, but in a real world situation, it fell down hard - stuck notes, dropped notes and BAD timing for midi, horrible in fact !!! Went back to the old port way and was not only able to work, but Logic became invisible to the work process again. Not sure what else to say, but I'm not on the 10.7 train, so not sure what dangers may lurk ahead there.
I don't think I'm writing so densely that the event limits are gonna cause me problems, and frankly if they ever did, I'd just render out the midi in sections first. I do tend to just hit play and record the stems right in LPX, then transfer to PT. Never had an issue with this approach. 

'famous last words, and 'knock on wood'...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 7, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> You weren’t using it right I told a long time ago how to make it work. Numerous people have been using it fine until now. LogicPro 10.7.5 completely broke it and Vsl has already acknowledged this through support emails in the past few days


Me?

How do you use it right? I don't remember what you said (if you do mean me), but early VE Pro 7 versions simply didn't work when you inserted the AU3 plug-in.

Again, that was probably four years ago. In 10.7.5 it can't be loaded.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 7, 2022)

yes it has worked great. You are the only person I ever heard of that couldn't seem to use it right. 

10.7.5 broke it.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 7, 2022)

dgburns said:


> Sharing the template is not gonna happen, sorry.



You could easily just save an empty project with just that little environment circuit to inspect if you want. Its been a number of years since I used any of that CC99 crap, so I will have to to back to old notes to give you precise explanation about why the transformer is broken in LogicPro and will cause you problems. its also slightly possible that Apple fixed the transformer bug since then, but I doubt it. 

Anyway, if you are happy with it don't let me talk you out of it, whatever works...but I can say that I put a lot of hours into this issue years ago....and will say confidently that the transformer was broken at that time and there were many people having lots of problems with it. I made a hacked environment macro which works around the transformer bug, But there were still some other problems making it less then perfect, I have to consult my old notes to say anymore than that now.

AU3 doesn't have any of the stuck note problems you are talking about now though, something else was causing that. You'd have to show us an example project to say any more, but in my own testing any many other people using it, AU3 doesn't have that problem with stuck notes...except for one thing, if you stop the project while notes are sustaining, sometimes they will be stuck...and the same problem exists with the CC99 approach. You can hack around that with a Scripter script BTW in either case. AU3 has other known problems such as plugin transport sync doesn't work properly if you're using a plugin with transport action in it, and also LogicPro patches haven't in the past saved AU3 settings properly...and a few things like that. Generally those have been preferable things to live without in order to have easy and reliable multi-port VePro7 usage with AU3... But hey..what is working for you, if you like using the CC99 trick and have no complaints and like the music you're producing then that is great, keep at it! This whole discussion has become kind of pyscho with certain people on the forums that seem to want to dredge up this old issue and make fights about it. So whatever you want that works for you... I can only report my findings....which I spent a lot of hours determining..you can listen to me, or ignore me or ague...I don't really care.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 7, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> yes it has worked great. You are the only person I ever heard of that couldn't seem to use it right.
> 
> 10.7.5 broke it.


How do you not use it right?

You insert it and it either works or it doesn't!

Thinking about it, VSL was aware of the problems I was having at the time anyway.


----------



## re-peat (Nov 7, 2022)

dgburns said:


> Man oh man, how many times have I provided feedback to Apple about that damn Master. I think there must be people who work top down, where the last tracks are the subs going into the Master fader. I work the other way, the top track is my Master, then subs, then source tracks. Funny, cause in the mixer, they put the Master far right, not far left.



Prior to Logic 10, I had the MasterOut as a sort of separator between the Audio tracks (top half of my Arrange Window) and the Instrument tracks (bottom half). Very convenient, I thought, as you were never too far away from the MasterOut track. Since Logic 10, that center position is now taken by a high-numbered Aux track which I’ve called Sum Bus and which receives everything that is meant for the MasterOut (the Sum Bus being routed to the MasterOut). It’s a solution. But not ideal, cause I prefer to do my fades on the actual MasterOut and there’s also a couple of plugins inserted there — an audioburst protector and an audio analyzer — which I prefer disabled at the time of mixdown.

In combination with the Sum Bus trick, I’ve also created a screenset which takes me straight to the bottom of the Arrange Window (I have to adjust that screenset in every project though, depending on how many tracks I’m using).

So, all in all, the fixed position of the MasterOut track isn’t a nuisance that can’t be worked around, it’s just that I do not understand why it has to be the way it is.

- - - -

Something else: anyone else notice that the tool cursors in 10.7.5 no longer change instantly if you change tools? When I switch, say, from pointer to scissors, the cursor will only change to a scissor after I’ve first clicked somewhere. And reverting to the pointer again only starts showing the arrow icon after first clicking somewhere. Mild annoyance.

(All of this on a MacStudio Ultra and Monterey.)

__


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 7, 2022)

re-peat said:


> All of this on a MacStudio Ultra and Monterey


The tool cursor doesn't seem to be doing that on my Mac Studio Max/Monterey, in fact a couple of other cursor issues I was having went away with the latest update (most likely just because of the fresh program, not because of a bug fix).

But this is how Logic has always been - something gets corrupted and the result is subtly strange behavior like you're describing.


----------



## dgburns (Nov 7, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> you can listen to me, or ignore me or ague...I don't really care.


Oh man, I won’t be aiming to create drama. Over and out.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 7, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> How do you not use it right?
> 
> You insert it and it either works or it doesn't!
> 
> Thinking about it, VSL was aware of the problems I was having at the time anyway.



You are not going to be using it now it seems so I'm not sure there is any point to tell you again, seems like you just want to argue. But there was a setting in the plugin Manager you needed to set right, and also there is a permissions you needed to set in System Preferences. it didn't work for you because you were not that interested to figure out how to use it properly, as everyone else did that has been using it perfectly well prior to v10.7.5


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 7, 2022)

dgburns said:


> Oh man, I won’t be aiming to create drama. Over and out.


Here is a thread to read regarding the related transformer bug. I leave it to you to decide if the version of LogicPro you are using has this problem or not. I have moved on from this approach years ago already..









Environment Transformer question


Alright, another question for old school environment experts... I think this might be a bug or flaw in LPX, but I would love to have someone tell me a work around... Basically let's take a very simple example. I want a transformer in the environment which will insert CC1=100 event in front of eve...




www.logicprohelp.com


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 7, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> You are not going to be using it now it seems so I'm not sure there is any point to tell you again, seems like you just want to argue. But there was a setting in the plugin Manager you needed to set right, and also there is a permissions you needed to set in System Preferences. it didn't work for you because you were not that interested to figure out how to use it properly, as everyone else did that has been using it perfectly well prior to v10.7.5


I do not want to argue. You're wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong and I'm right right right right right.


----------



## AudioBrewers (Nov 8, 2022)

Just as a heads-up we found in Development, when running in Native mode (not Rossetta), this version of Logic identifies itself as "Garageband", so if you have any plugin that does something specific for Logic and you have issues, it MIGHT be related to this, try to run Logic in Rossetta mode and compare results, if it works, I guess time to wait for a fix.

Logic's (Native) kAudioUnitProperty_AUHostIdentifier is returning com.apple.garageband instead of com.apple.logic.pro

Logic in Rossetta mode works fine.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 8, 2022)

How can you tell whether that's going on?

I posted a screenshot of the Get Info and Activity Monitor showing that it knew Logic was running, but it sounds like kaudiounit'apsdoajdsf is something else.

(Then I realized that there was deep secret stuff showing in that screenshot, so I deleted it.)


----------



## AudioBrewers (Nov 8, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> How can you tell whether that's going on?
> 
> I posted a screenshot of the Get Info and Activity Monitor showing that it knew Logic was running, but it sounds like kaudiounit'apsdoajdsf is something else.
> 
> (Then I realized that there was deep secret stuff showing in that screenshot, so I deleted it.)


Let me make a quick empty plugin that reports your daw, etc so that you can check. Will do tomorrow first thing (🇪🇺)


----------



## dgburns (Nov 8, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Here is a thread to read regarding the related transformer bug. I leave it to you to decide if the version of LogicPro you are using has this problem or not. I have moved on from this approach years ago already..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So the whole objection is to a duplicated note off event? Am I missing something ? 

( said the guy with a working setup)


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 8, 2022)

yes you are missing it. Read the other thread more carefully. There is a problem where the value of the CC is always set to zero, thus resulting in hung notes. if you read back to the VSL forum back then you can see a lot of people complaining about hanging notes.

You can code around that but then you get problems with inconsistent NoteOff's, it was actually two separate but related problems.

also if you hit stop while notes are sustaining and some of them are on other ports, then they will be left hanging...or were back in 2018. This was because LogicPro did not send out ALL NOTES OFF to all the other ports.

Maybe Apple has fixed this bug since 2018 also...which might be whey its working for you. I haven't used it in a long time. Anyway like I told you before. I don't want to argue with you, if you like what you're doing then enjoy. I can only express that in the past it was broken.


----------



## dgburns (Nov 8, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> yes you are missing it. Read the other thread more carefully. There is a problem where the value of the CC is always set to zero, thus resulting in hung notes. if you read back to the VSL forum back then you can see a lot of people complaining about hanging notes.
> 
> You can code around that but then you get problems with inconsistent NoteOff's, it was actually two separate but related problems.
> 
> ...


I can report I don’t have hung notes. And I’ll be on the lookout for issues, but so far it’s solid for me. Thanks for the clarifications.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 8, 2022)

@dgburns I just did a quick test....as far as I can see, as of LogicPro 10.7.4, the transformer bug is still there. I have no idea why you're not experiencing hung notes...but here is a screen shot showing the result...






as you can see, what happens in this case is that a CC99=5 is sent in front of the NoteOn...and then later CC99=0 is sent in front of the NoteOff.

That means the NoteOn would be sent to VePro port 6, and the NoteOff would be sent to VePro port 1. Thus resulting in hanging notes. that is when played from the midi keyboard.

When the event is trigged from a region, however, the transform works correctly as far as I can see now. Well that explains why no hung notes when playing back projects, where its all coming from regions... I think you should be experiencing some hung notes while trying to use a midi keyboard.

also...when stopping the transport with sustaining notes...quite probably some hung notes should still be happening...that can be worked around with a Scripter script in case that comes up for you.


----------



## AudioBrewers (Nov 9, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> How can you tell whether that's going on?
> 
> I posted a screenshot of the Get Info and Activity Monitor showing that it knew Logic was running, but it sounds like kaudiounit'apsdoajdsf is something else.
> 
> (Then I realized that there was deep secret stuff showing in that screenshot, so I deleted it.)


Here you go:








Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.


Store photos and docs online. Access them from any PC, Mac or phone. Create and work together on Word, Excel or PowerPoint documents.



1drv.ms





Simply uncompress the AU and put it with your other AU.
It's called 'ab Checker', as soon as you open it, it should tell you which DAW you're on (according to what the DAW itself reports).

You'll see as soon as you open Logic in native mode, it reports Garageband (facepalm).
If you open it in Rossetta, it reports Logic.


----------



## IFM (Nov 9, 2022)

Anyone getting cursor/pointer shifts when editing? I‘m getting this now when editing notes and having to re-click to actually make the edit.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 9, 2022)

AudioBrewers said:


> Here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## dcoscina (Nov 9, 2022)

IFM said:


> Anyone getting cursor/pointer shifts when editing? I‘m getting this now when editing notes and having to re-click to actually make the edit.


I have had non stop issues with the piano roll window not refreshing when I move a note. It's been a problem since LPX.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 9, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> I have had non stop issues with the piano roll window not refreshing when I move a note. It's been a problem since LPX.


Unless your issue is different from what I think it is, that sounds like a corrupted screenset or something - preferences maybe?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 9, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> I have had non stop issues with the piano roll window not refreshing when I move a note. It's been a problem since LPX.


One time I watched a friend do something in one of the editors that I assumed you just couldn't do, because it didn't work in my system.

It turned out to be a single corrupted screenset in my autoload - which I'd been using for several years.


----------



## re-peat (Nov 9, 2022)

I never experienced the non-refreshing issue. What irritates me rather a lot in the Piano Editor though, are two things, just two: (1) the difference between selected and not-selected muted notes is barely visible (they're both a very similar medium grey) — again: in Logic 9, that difference was plain as day (why people decide to change these important details, is more than I can understand) — and (2) if you’re editing a note that happens to be positioned near the bottom of the Editor, the balloon with the value settings often pops up right in front of the note you’re editing. (Which forces you to interrupt your editing, do some scrolling first and then continue working.)

Also annoying, but much less so than the two previous points: if you copy a note by Option-clicking it and you drag the copy _in a straight line_ to a different place (horizontally or vertically), Logic will almost always move the original, instead of creating a copy and move that one. The only way to avoid this, is to deviate from the straight line motion. In other words, drag the copied note a bit up or down, or left or right, depending on the direction, before starting on the straight trajectory to its destination.

_


----------



## charlieclouser (Nov 9, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> It turned out to be a single corrupted screenset in my autoload - which I'd been using for several years.


Thou shalt rebuild your template from scratch upon every first-decimal-point version upgrade of Logic, or a plague of fuckery shall trouble your lands for all of your days.

So sayeth the lord.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 9, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Thou shalt rebuild your template from scratch upon every first-decimal-point version upgrade of Logic, or a plague of fuckery shall trouble your lands for all of your days.
> 
> So sayeth the lord.



Sing it Brother Charles.


----------



## IFM (Nov 9, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Thou shalt rebuild your template from scratch upon every first-decimal-point version upgrade of Logic, or a plague of fuckery shall trouble your lands for all of your days.
> 
> So sayeth the lord.


I’m going to have to as this update has FUBAR’d my screenset.


----------



## tmhuud (Nov 9, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Thou shalt rebuild your template from scratch upon every first-decimal-point version upgrade of Logic, or a plague of fuckery shall trouble your lands for all of your days.
> 
> So sayeth the lord.


Unfortunate but true.


----------



## charlieclouser (Nov 9, 2022)

Sorry, my post should have read "Thou shalt rebuild THY template..."


----------



## tmhuud (Nov 9, 2022)

_And do everything you can to avoid “The Plague of fuckery”…_


----------



## Soundhound (Nov 10, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Sorry, my post should have read "Thou shalt rebuild THY template..."


thou art forgiven. this time.


----------



## dgburns (Nov 10, 2022)

tmhuud said:


> _And do everything you can to avoid “The Plague of fuckery”…_


 Thou should also consider placing the Pref file in the chamberpot. Once your business is done, chuck it out the castle window whilst exclaiming ‘Gardez-loo’.


----------



## gst98 (Nov 10, 2022)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> One time I watched a friend do something in one of the editors that I assumed you just couldn't do, because it didn't work in my system.
> 
> It turned out to be a single corrupted screenset in my autoload - which I'd been using for several years.


I get this very occasionally - did you have to trash the whole Logic pref file? or something just related to the screenset? thanks


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 10, 2022)

gst98 said:


> I get this very occasionally - did you have to trash the whole Logic pref file? or something just related to the screenset? thanks


This was years ago, but I'm pretty sure I just made a new template. I know it wasn't the prefs file, so I know I didn't have to replace that.


----------



## charlieclouser (Nov 10, 2022)

dgburns said:


> Thou should also consider placing the Pref file in the chamberpot. Once your business is done, chuck it out the castle window whilst exclaiming ‘Gardez-loo’.


Agreed. Not sure exactly what-all is in the Prefs file, but I've fixed weirdness in the past by trashing and manually setting all Preferences and Project Settings. 

Also, thou shouldst export and store thy Key Commands file on thy desktop for safety, and also in thy DropBox in case thou travels to foreign lands and desireth to use the Logic rig of another. Otherwise thy fingers will not land on the buttons as laid out in scripture.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Nov 10, 2022)

So let it be written, so let it be done


----------



## tmhuud (Nov 10, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Agreed. Not sure exactly what-all is in the Prefs file, but I've fixed weirdness in the past by trashing and manually setting all Preferences and Project Settings.
> 
> Also, thou shouldst export and store thy Key Commands file on thy desktop for safety, and also in thy DropBox in case thou travels to foreign lands and desireth to use the Logic rig of another. Otherwise thy fingers will not land on the buttons as laid out in scripture.


Yeah, and every control surface you get complicates things. I have a Behringer, a keypad, metagrid, a stream deck and low and behold, its the kensington Orbital that that cant get the left button to double click (NO MATTER WHAT I DO). And its literally killing my workflow. The gods are not kind. And yes Key Commands for Logic are ALWAYS backed up (in several places lol)


----------



## samphony (Nov 11, 2022)

First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out.


----------



## dgburns (Nov 11, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> and desireth to use the Logic rig of another.


Thou shalt not covet… Blasphemy!!


----------



## Malaryjoe (Nov 16, 2022)

Oh…. Now you don’t have to try to sync your pedals to Logic‘s tempo because Logic can now sync to your pedals’ tempo…


----------



## FreddySmith (Nov 17, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Ableton LINK!
> 
> I hope this will cure my heartbreak over ReWire being deprecated.... Although Link doesn't send audio between apps, so that's a major downside, meaning I'll have to route audio via hardware or software loopback.
> 
> ...


Rewire works with Ableton Live 11 and Logic. Watch this video.


----------



## Malaryjoe (Nov 22, 2022)

Softube just released an update that cured the Plexi Super Lead validation issue for 10.7.5 or Ventura or whatever….


----------



## re-peat (Nov 26, 2022)

Upgraded my old silver Apollo UAD2 to an Apollo 8x this afternoon, and while setting it up, I discovered something which puts an end to one of those two irritations I mentioned earllier — the Stereo Out insisting on sitting all the way at the bottom of the Arrange Window — and, well, maybe some of you might find it useful too:

If you give the Stereo Out a different output assignment than the default Output 1-2 — I've got it now routed to virtual channel pair 3-4 in UAD's Console — you can move the Stereo Out anywhere you like on the Arrange Window. No longer needs to sit all the way down at the bottom of the page. (From which I gather that is merely its Output 1-2 assignment, rather than the function of the Stereo Out, which forces the bottom-of-the-page position.)

Anyway, nice bit of news for me. I hope for some of you too.

__


----------

