# M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro



## 3DC (Mar 10, 2021)

If you are in the market for 88 key midi controller check out the new M-Audio Graded Hammer-Action USB MIDI Controller with Smart Controls and Auto-Mapping. They essentially combined the M-Audio Oxygen Pro with Hammer 88. The price is 752 EUR here in EU and to me extremely competitive compared with other 88 key controllers.

More info here and on YT


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## jonathanparham (Mar 10, 2021)

interesting. I have the Pro 88 and like it


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## Nimrod7 (Mar 13, 2021)

M-Audio quality is usually meh...
I am wondering how that one stands compared to the other usual controllers in the 1k mark...


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## MusicStudent (Mar 13, 2021)

This thing is huge. My SL88iStudio would fit inside it.
Dimensions​56.0” x 11.1” x 5.0”

142.2 x 28.2 x 12.7 cm

Weight​40.8 lbs.

18.5 kg


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## Nimrod7 (Mar 13, 2021)

MusicStudent said:


> This thing is huge. My SL88iStudio would fit inside it.
> Dimensions​56.0” x 11.1” x 5.0”
> 
> 142.2 x 28.2 x 12.7 cm
> ...


It's smaller in width than the LMK4+, which doesn't even fit in the 88 keyboard tray of my desk. At least that M-Audio has 8cm left!


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## MusicStudent (Mar 14, 2021)

YouTube is starting to fill up with demos of this board. Have to admit, all is looking pretty sweet. But as often said, all this tools are great when you get them out of the box for the first time. Looking forward to the 6 and 12 month reviews.


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## Fleer (Mar 23, 2021)

Apparently the same Medeli K6S action as on the Kurzweil PC4, which I quite like, while the non-Pro Hammer 88 shares the K6 action with Kurz’s SP6 stage piano.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 29, 2021)

I just got mine yesterday. 15% off coupon ($679.15).

I had a Studiologic SL88 Studio prior to this that I sold - this isn't that much bigger.

The feel is an order of magnitude better than the SL88 - for me.

Playing the Embertone Walker 1955 D with this is an experience.

We'll see how it holds up.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 29, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> M-Audio quality is usually meh...
> I am wondering how that one stands compared to the other usual controllers in the 1k mark...


You'd be surprised how many different companies use the same Asian factories.


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## Nimrod7 (Jul 29, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> You'd be surprised how many different companies use the same Asian factories.


Asian factories have nothing to do with quality, the companies that sourcing them do. Apple is manufactured in Asia.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 29, 2021)

3DC said:


> Don't forget to upgrade your firmware for 88 Pro. They fixed tons of issues including pitch and mod wheel performance.
> Also don't live your Hammer 88 Pro ON if you don't use it. I had my Oxygen Pro 61 ON for couple of hours and I lost color shade in display.



First thing I did was the firmware update.

Nice to have a power switch.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 29, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> Asian factories have nothing to do with quality, the companies that sourcing them do. Apple is manufactured in Asia.


That's a head-shaking statement.

Apple has had their share of quality problems. Hardly an argument.

I am a product design engineer. I've done new product development for Microsoft, Amazon, etc..

I've worked with Asian manufacturing since the great offshoring in the 1990s.

The level of quality has gradually improved over time. And most of the big Asian players exhibit even quality.

Asian manufacturing has a lot to do with it.

How a company implements QC, is a factor, yes.

But until you've been to the factories to troubleshoot tooling and production lines...


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## Nimrod7 (Jul 29, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> That's a head-shaking statement.
> 
> Apple has had their share of quality problems. Hardly an argument.
> 
> I am a product design engineer. I've done new product development for Microsoft, Amazon, etc..


So what's your view? The factories control the quality?
As you're declaring below, companies dictating the QC, the components, the materials.

Apple is an example, it might be expensive, or weird or whatever, but it usually represents build quality that's hard to bypass at least with its direct competitors.

I still miss your point, something that represents quality means it should't manufactured in Asia, or that is harder to manufacture something of high quality in Asia?


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 29, 2021)

3DC said:


> Don't forget to upgrade your firmware for 88 Pro. They fixed tons of issues including pitch and mod wheel performance.
> Also don't live your Hammer 88 Pro ON if you don't use it. I had my Oxygen Pro 61 ON for couple of hours and I lost color shade in display.




that's odd - while it's nice they added the power switch, you shouldn't have to turn off these devices to avoid weird behavior.

i'll do a test and leave it on for a week.

i'll report any issues.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 29, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> I still miss your point, something that represents quality means it should't manufactured in Asia, or that is harder to manufacture something of high quality in Asia?


what?

how did you get there from my comment?

all i was saying originally, there aren't that many different big Asian manufacturing players the consumer product industry uses for production.

MEANING, the level of quality across brands is pretty much even any more.

Sure, you'll have exceptions like Apple and Microsoft - their primary focus is their Industrial Design branding and image. Their criteria is completely different, and a different level of quality (Premium) than most of the products we use daily. and which are completely fine! Their yields can be ridiculously low, hence the higher retail pricing. AGAIN, they are the exception.


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## Jorf88 (Aug 28, 2021)

Any updates about this board from you owners? I'm shopping for something with weighted keys to use as a midi controller, and while I was not particularly fond of the original hammer 88 when I tried it, I've been told that the K6S action feels much better. I have no way to test this because nowhere near me carries this in store.

Have any of you tried other similar controllers/pianos/synths that you could describe the action comparison with?


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## Zoot_Rollo (Aug 28, 2021)

i got a replacement Hammer 88 Pro - i did NOT install the firmware update.

works like a champ!

great keyboard value.


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## mjsalam (Aug 29, 2021)

I just returned a Hammer 88 (non-pro). I really liked it but it just felt too big and bulky for my space. I could figure out how to make it work comfortably.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Aug 29, 2021)

mjsalam said:


> I just returned a Hammer 88 (non-pro). I really liked it but it just felt too big and bulky for my space. I could figure out how to make it work comfortably.


odd

what are you comparing it to?

*Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2*
Height: 4.5"
Width: 54.7"
Depth: 13.6"
Weight: 29.1 lbs.

*Hammer 88 Pro*
Height: 5.00"
Width: 56.00"
Depth: 11.10"
Weight: 40.8 lbs.

*Hammer 88*
Height: 5.0"
Width: 55.9"
Depth: 11.9"
Weight: 38.5 lbs.

*Studiologic SL88 Grand*
Height: 4.9", 5.9" (with joystick)
Width: 49.6"
Depth: 12.2"
Weight: 45.8 lbs.


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## mjsalam (Aug 29, 2021)

Nothing really. It was the first full 88 key weighed Ive owned. I didn’t want it on my desk. It wouldn’t work under my desk ( either it was too low or desk was too high). Could have it parallel/extending the desk in the front as the curved top made that awkward. Didn't want it off to the side. Niggly personal things. Really liked it a lot otherwise.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Aug 29, 2021)

mjsalam said:


> Nothing really. It was the first full 88 key weighed Ive owned. I didn’t want it on my desk. It wouldn’t work under my desk ( either it was too low or desk was too high). Could have it parallel/extending the desk in the front as the curved top made that awkward. Didn't want it off to the side. Niggly personal things. Really liked it a lot otherwise.


ahhh, i see. so any 88 would probably be too big.

what did you decide on?


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## mjsalam (Aug 29, 2021)

It was less the length and more the height and depth. Mostly height. I haven't decided. Im totally spiraling lol. I'm not a.pianist by any measure but I very quickly fell in love with the expressiveness of the weighted keys. I'm not sure can go back! But as.you suggested I don't think there is much room for improvement on the the size irrespective of the model. So I dunno. I'm torn between just spending a small amount on something like an alesis q88 or the keylab essential 88. Or spending a lot more for a keylab 88, or KK s88 or the SL88 studio. Ugh. Parlysis over here.


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## jaketanner (Oct 3, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I just got mine yesterday. 15% off coupon ($679.15).
> 
> I had a Studiologic SL88 Studio prior to this that I sold - this isn't that much bigger.
> 
> ...


How are you liking it? I’ve had the original hammer 88. It was great, but felt the keys were a tad noisy. I do a lot of late night work and wondering if this is relatively quiet?


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## Fleer (Oct 3, 2021)

Interested too. Still loving my RD-88 tho.


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## jaketanner (Oct 3, 2021)

Fleer said:


> Interested too. Still loving my RD-88 tho.


I was thinking also about the A88 MKII since it’s very quiet and MIDI proof. Still in the fence about getting a controller that is MIDI 1.0 since it won’t be long before 2.0 becomes standard. I’d rather not have to upgrade yet again in a year.


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## Fleer (Oct 3, 2021)

Thought about that too but not sure I’ll need 2.0 with my low level chops.


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## jaketanner (Oct 3, 2021)

Fleer said:


> Thought about that too but not sure I’ll need 2.0 with my low level chops.


has nothing to do with level..it's a feature, function issue. I mean, it might be a while before it's fully integrated, but it's pretty much a sure thing that it's going to happen...so best to be prepared. Besides, I really like the A88MKII anyway...just wish i was able to try the feel somewhere..


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## Fleer (Oct 3, 2021)

Should be similar to the RD-88.


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## jaketanner (Oct 3, 2021)

Fleer said:


> Should be similar to the RD-88.


Yeah...the thing I noticed with many keyboards that use the same keybeds...is that they all perform differently. The PHA-4S in the MKII seems to be quieter than the one found on the fp30x...well, not 100% sure about the (x), but the original yes. And the popular TP/100 Fatar keybed is vastly different in various keyboards...so would love to try it first. Otherwise, I may just take a leap of faith...LOL


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## Fleer (Oct 3, 2021)

That new Studiologic stage piano seems interesting too.


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## sostenuto (Oct 3, 2021)

Fleer said:


> That new Studiologic stage piano seems interesting too.


Aarrgghh !!! Choices, choices ... research, research ... 🤦🏻‍♂️  
Just getting pumped re. Hammer 88 Pro and specific deal @ <$700. Oh well ......


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## jaketanner (Oct 3, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Aarrgghh !!! Choices, choices ... research, research ... 🤦🏻‍♂️
> Just getting pumped re. Hammer 88 Pro and specific deal @ <$700. Oh well ......


I’m most likely going to get the hammer pro simply because I had a good experience with the original. And this new version looks like it’s flat on the top left so I can place an additional controller and the original Hammer 88 was a bit rounded..


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## Fleer (Oct 3, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I’m most likely going to get the hammer pro simply because I had a good experience with the original. And this new version looks like it’s flat on the top left so I can place an additional controller and the original Hammer 88 was a bit rounded..


Check out the thread over at the MusicPlayer forum, some serious flaws apparently ...


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## Jorf88 (Oct 3, 2021)

Fleer said:


> Check out the thread over at the MusicPlayer forum, some serious flaws apparently ...


Said thread also has a really fantastic post about someones' comparisons between the action of the hammer 88 pro to a bunch of other popular/well known actions.

See this thread



Fleer said:


> That new Studiologic stage piano seems interesting too.


I am really interested in the new NumaX Pianos. I want to get my fingers on the TP110 and the TP400 actions to see what they're all about.

Sure, they _say _that they're massively improved from the previous versions, but I want a third party to say those words... As much as I'd like to believe that the guys are being honest, you can never truly trust someone marketing their own brand.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 3, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> How are you liking it? I’ve had the original hammer 88. It was great, but felt the keys were a tad noisy. I do a lot of late night work and wondering if this is relatively quiet?


My previous 88 key controllers: Yamaha KX88 and StudioLogic SL88 Studio.

The Hammer 88 Pro surpasses each easily with action and features.

I work VERY early in the morning and I have never noticed key noise.

I forget sometimes I am playing a controller.

At $799 street price (you can get 15% off from time to time), it's an extraordinary value.

note: I am not a professional pianist - this is strictly for composing.


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## Fleer (Oct 3, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> My previous 88 key controllers: Yamaha KX88 and StudioLogic SL88 Studio.
> 
> The Hammer 88 Pro surpasses each easily with action and features.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. Someone compared it to the Medeli action in the Kurzweil PC4, which I really like.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 3, 2021)

Fleer said:


> Thanks for that. Someone compared it to the Medeli action in the Kurzweil PC4, which I really like.


i read the thread over at Musicplayer - seems some have issues with this unit.

I did as well and got a replacement - my first unit would slip into "Vegas Mode" - the sliders, pads, and switches would light up in a cascade until i touched a key or pad. it still performed perfectly, no stuck notes, but there was no way I could be on stage with it.

My replacement has been flawless. I leave it on 24/7 connected to Studio One Pro 5.4. DAW integration and preset mode with VIs works well.

I didn't mind giving it a second chance and Musicians Friend was fantastic with making it right.

For my use, the feel, features, cost, are great.

For others, it may be a risk not worth taking.

-

the preset editor is very nice !


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## jaketanner (Oct 3, 2021)

Fleer said:


> Check out the thread over at the MusicPlayer forum, some serious flaws apparently ...


Oh really? Will do. Won’t be until I move to my new place after the holidays but still need to plan it out.


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## sostenuto (Oct 3, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i read the thread over at Musicplayer - seems some have issues with this unit.
> 
> I did as well and got a replacement - my first unit would slip into "Vegas Mode" - the sliders, pads, and switches would light up in a cascade until i touched a key or pad. it still performed perfectly, no stuck notes, but there was no way I could be on stage with it.
> 
> ...


Re-kindles interest, as specific new instrument is discounted ~ 15% from reliable source. THX !
Moving from Roland KR-577 Dig Piano purchased decades ago. Trusting Hammer 88 Pro will be notable improvement. 🙏🏻


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## jaketanner (Dec 19, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Trusting Hammer 88 Pro will be notable improvement. 🙏🏻


Have you gotten your Hammer Pro yet?


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## jaketanner (Dec 19, 2021)

Rather than start a new thread, I was wondering if there is anyone here that upgraded the Hammer 88 to the pro version...can tell me how the keys have improved?


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## sostenuto (Dec 19, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Have you gotten your Hammer Pro yet?


Still sorting options. Big deal here to move beyond Roland KR-577, despite its lack of current MIDI Controller capabilities. Not confident that this price point will provide longer-term solution. 
Awaiting reply to inquiry, directed to Merriam Music / Stu Harrison, regarding recent YT video instrument, and possible upgrade plans.


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## jaketanner (Dec 19, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Still sorting options. Big deal here to move beyond Roland KR-577, despite its lack of current MIDI Controller capabilities. Not confident that this price point will provide longer-term solution.
> Awaiting reply to inquiry, directed to Merriam Music / Stu Harrison, regarding recent YT video instrument, and possible upgrade plans.


What solution are you looking to fulfill long term? Does Merriam have a video on the 88 Pro? I ad the original Hammer 88 and was great...slightly noisy keys, but not intolerable like the Casio...man are those terrible...can't play a ballad with those at all.


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## sostenuto (Dec 19, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> What solution are you looking to fulfill long term? Does Merriam have a video on the 88 Pro? I ad the original Hammer 88 and was great...slightly noisy keys, but not intolerable like the Casio...man are those terrible...can't play a ballad with those at all.


So far not finding Hammer 88 Pro vid. Too bad, as Stu H has done so many. Will keep checking for personal interests as well.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 10, 2022)

Hammer 88 Pro update:

I was on my second Hammer 88 Pro when 2 issues popped up:

1. Over time, the Hammer 88 Pro would lose connection with my DAW. I would have to turn it off, wait a few seconds, and turn it back on.

It never lost connection while I was using it.

I tried every USB port on my ASRock Tai Chi x299 motherboard. I even bought a 24 gauge, ferrite beaded USB cable. No change, still disconnected after a few hours of idle time.

2. the LCD was losing pixels - I could still read it, but it was lookin' pretty bad.

This time, I was well past my 45 day return window with Musician's Friend.

I figured I was out of luck and had to live with it.

Which I was prepared to do since I like the feel and the features of the unit - very much!

Last gasp attempt with M-Audio support. The website was ZERO help.

So,

I called their support phone number.

Within a few minutes, a human answered. I explained the problems, confirmed my serial number and purchase date (2nd purchase - replacement), and described my attempts to fix it.

She quickly mentioned something about a power supply issue and emailed me an RA and FEDEX shipping label.

She said, once they received the unit, they would replace it with a brand new, fully tested A stock unit from their Nevada facility.

I shipped the unit that day. I just received the tracking number for the new replacement.

I should get it this week.

Proof will be in the behavior of the new unit, of course. 

Pretty amazing customer support.

I'll give a final update when I receive the unit.


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## jaketanner (Jan 11, 2022)

I'm still interested to know if the keys live up to the original Hammer 88? I quite enjoyed the action of the original, but had to sell it...lack of room. I will have the room back in a month or so and looking to purchase another one.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 12, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> I'm still interested to know if the keys live up to the original Hammer 88? I quite enjoyed the action of the original, but had to sell it...lack of room. I will have the room back in a month or so and looking to purchase another one.


I don't have experience with the Hammer 88.

my most recent 88 was a StudioLogic SL88 Studio - I did not like it.

according to this video, the 'key' difference between the Hammer 88 and Hammer 88 Pro is aftertouch with the Pro.


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## jaketanner (Jan 12, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I don't have experience with the Hammer 88.
> 
> my most recent 88 was a StudioLogic SL88 Studio - I did not like it.
> 
> according to this video, the 'key' difference between the Hammer 88 and Hammer 88 Pro is aftertouch with the Pro.



Thanks. I saw all the videos, and I think the keys are also graded. I’m just wondering how much of a feel difference the aftertouch makes since it’s not a dead stop at the bottom. I may still give it a go.


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## jaketanner (Jan 12, 2022)

3DC said:


> Bare in mind you are looking at 625EUR 88 keys graded hammer action midi controller with 8 knobs, 9 faders and 16 pads. At this price you will get some quirks no matter what so make sure you can return or exchange the product if you must.
> 
> The notable problems for M-Audio are not so precise pitch bend, midi hangs and if you don't upgrade your firmware display problems.
> 
> ...


I have a Monogram CC controller...I also have an Arturia keylab MKII 49 for most things. My concerns are mostly about the feel of the keys, BUT, I don't need it to feel like a real piano, that's just not going to happen...LOL. I am a pianist, but i won't be playing anything classical or extremely demanding for film music. 

The M Audio hammer 88 (original), was very accurate with the dynamics, and my only two gripes were that it wasn't flat on top, so can't really place the Monogram on it, and the keys were slightly noisier than what I would like since I use headphone a lot, and it's often disturbing. But now that I think about it, we are moving into a small house and I'll have my own room and can soundproof more...If I go the route of a DP, I would opt for the Yamaha P515, the fp60x or the RD88. Otherwise, the other controller only choice would be the Roland A88 MKII...I would even opt for the Keylab 88 MKII, and sell my 49 key, but if I recall, the keys were noisy, and still suffers from QC issues. Wish the local stores carried these, but worst case scenario, I get a good semi-weighted 88 controller and forget about the weighted keys.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 12, 2022)

Quirky is accurate for the Hammer 88 Pro.

I updated the firmware and it had zero effect on my display problem.

As I said, I am on my 3rd unit. I am committed at this point and very fortunate to get a new replacement from M-Audio - fully tested.

Still waiting. FEDEX Ground hell.

I tried a lot of controllers and DPs, i didn't like any of the keybeds until the price became a non-starter. 

The Hammer 88 Pro is perfect and affordable.

Would I take this on the road? Nope. Not only because of its potential quirks, but it's a beast to carry.

I tried the Korg Nano with my SL88 Studio and absolutely hated it.

The Hammer 88 Pro is for home studio/composing only - it feels great, I forget I'm playing a controller.

Would I recommend the Hammer 88 Pro? Not without referencing this thread. And NEVER a used one.


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## jaketanner (Jan 12, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> my SL88 Studio





3DC said:


> These are all well above 1000EUR so in you place I would go for Studiologic SL88 Grand (Fatar TP40Wood+Aftertouch) with optional Mixface DAW controller and Magnetic Computer Plate or
> Yamaha MODX8 (FM synth workstation + Excellent with Cubase DAW - no aftertouch ) or
> Roland RD-88 (ZEN-Core Sound Engine - no aftertouch) or
> Korg Krome EX 88 or Korg Kross 2-88 ( excellent entry level workstations - no aftertouch )
> ...


I don't really need all bells and whistles, and happy with my Monogram controller for now...so all I really need is a slab. I thought I would use the pads, and sliders with my Keylab, but it just never comes into play. The only reason I am considering a DP, is so that I don't need to have my DAW on all the time to get ideas, and also because I am looking at possibly giving piano lessons remotely, and on-board sounds might be useful...otherwise, I would never use them.

The NEW Sl88 Grand will have an upgraded Tp40...so if anything, I would wait for that...or even the new TP/100 that will be coming out. Unfortunately, even though the key beds are the same, they do not feel nor sound that same (key noise). The enclosure plays a huge role in the overall feel and key noise. The biggest draw about the A88 MKII is the MIDI 2.0 capability...at least it's future proof.

The other thing that i never got along with, maybe because I don't really use many synth sounds, is aftertouch...just not sure how much I will use it...I have it now, but never comes into play...lol


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 14, 2022)

funny update:

FEDEX lost the package from M-Audio.

Going through the claim process.

I guess the Hammer 88 Pro wasn't meant to be.

HA!

So, what's the best graded hammer action 88 key controller without escapement?


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## jaketanner (Jan 14, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> funny update:
> 
> FEDEX lost the package from M-Audio.
> 
> ...


WOW! Sorry. If you are staying within that $800 budget, there aren't many options. Unless you are willing to go to a DP...then you can look at the Yamaha series P, and dare I say it...Casio. Casio action isn't bad, BUT...lately they have changed it so that the black keys are lighter than the white...I know this for a fact...I tried one in a store. AND, they make a shit ton of noise, that overpowers any quiet playing.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 14, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> WOW! Sorry. If you are staying within that $800 budget, there aren't many options. Unless you are willing to go to a DP...then you can look at the Yamaha series P, and dare I say it...Casio. Casio action isn't bad, BUT...lately they have changed it so that the black keys are lighter than the white...I know this for a fact...I tried one in a store. AND, they make a shit ton of noise, that overpowers any quiet playing.


thanks.

i've heard the Akai MPK88 is good, but seemingly unavailable.

i'd jump to $1,500 if i can get similar features - hammer, sliders, A/T, etc.


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## jaketanner (Jan 14, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> thanks.
> 
> i've heard the Akai MPK88 is good, but seemingly unavailable.
> 
> i'd jump to $1,500 if i can get similar features - hammer, sliders, A/T, etc.


The Sakai is noisy as hell. Lol. And if you’re jumping up, then the Roland DS88 might be good. Most others have escapement. The Arturia is similar to the SL88 which I think you said you didn’t like.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 14, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> The Sakai is noisy as hell. Lol. And if you’re jumping up, then the Roland DS88 might be good. Most others have escapement. The Arturia is similar to the SL88 which I think you said you didn’t like.


Wow, the Juno DS88 looks great. If there is a version that is strictly a controller...

Fingers crossed FEDEX doesn't find the 88 Pro!


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## jaketanner (Jan 14, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Wow, the Juno DS88 looks great.
> 
> Fingers crossed FEDEX doesn't find the 88 Pro!


Lol. Personally I like the feel of the DS88 even over that of the PHA4, but I don’t mind escapement so I have few more options. But I did consider the DS myself. Just not sure if I’m going to put it encased in a desk or exposed.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 14, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> Lol. Personally I like the feel of the DS88 even over that of the PHA4, but I don’t mind escapement so I have few more options. But I did consider the DS myself. Just not sure if I’m going to put it encased in a desk or exposed.


I would consider escapement models.

I discounted escapement hearing it would add to the heaviness of the feel.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 14, 2022)

if there was a DS88 version as a controller...


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## jaketanner (Jan 14, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I would consider escapement models.
> 
> I discounted escapement hearing it would add to the heaviness of the feel.


Not on any model I've heard of, and especially not on the Roland models PHA-4 and up. They are not heavy at all...compared to the Yamaha p515...even though the escapement is barely noticeable, the weight is much heavier. If you are able to try the DS88, that would be the best scenario. It's the same keybed that is on the OLD A88 by Roland...it's the one that Keyscape uses in their videos to show of the software.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 14, 2022)

Looks like the DS88 has the "Ivory Feel G" keybed.

Not even the base PHA-4 Standard.


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## jaketanner (Jan 14, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Looks like the DS88 has the "Ivory Feel G" keybed.
> 
> Not even the base PHA-4 Standard.


Right. But still excellent feel. The PHA-4 has eacapement. Best to try it out. I think it’s a good medium between all instruments. Unless you’re looking for a dedicate controller for piano only. I’ve given up any notion of a keyboard feeling like an acoustic…I just need accurate velocity triggers and decent feel for instruments that are not piano also.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 14, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> Right. But still excellent feel. The PHA-4 has eacapement. Best to try it out. I think it’s a good medium between all instruments. Unless you’re looking for a dedicate controller for piano only. I’ve given up any notion of a keyboard feeling like an acoustic…I just need accurate velocity triggers and decent feel for instruments that are not piano also.


after digging a bit, I see the DS88 gets pretty high marks for feel and features.

Roland supposedly updated the G Feel for the DS88 and not other products.

of course, now that I am interested in this, FEDEX will show up at my door with the 88 Pro.

not complaining, just typical and comical.


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## jaketanner (Jan 14, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> after digging a bit, I see the DS88 gets pretty high marks for feel and features.
> 
> Roland supposedly updated the G Feel for the DS88 and not other products.
> 
> ...


Well, major difference between these, aside from price, is that the DS is a true workstation synth as well...if that's something that interests you. I dig the ability to just plug in headphones and start improving for ideas...if not mistaken, there is an on-board sequencer of sorts. While it doesn't have built-in sounds, I was thinking of getting the iLoud Micro Monitors (had them once), and use them as the dedicated speakers for the unit.


----------



## jaketanner (Jan 14, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> after digging a bit, I see the DS88 gets pretty high marks for feel and features.
> 
> Roland supposedly updated the G Feel for the DS88 and not other products.
> 
> ...


If you ever do get your M Audio...I'd love feedback on the keys and how well it responds to VIs...The original Hammer 88 was fantastic in this category...wondering if the Pro version, with it's aftertouch and graded action live up to the original's dynamic response.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 14, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> If you ever do get your M Audio...I'd love feedback on the keys and how well it responds to VIs...The original Hammer 88 was fantastic in this category...wondering if the Pro version, with it's aftertouch and graded action live up to the original's dynamic respon


using the 88 Pro with VIs is my main focus - piano libs too, of course.

i LOVE the action with VIs - again, i don't have experience with the original 88.


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## jaketanner (Jan 14, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> using the 88 Pro with VIs is my main focus - piano libs too, of course.
> 
> i LOVE the action with VIs - again, i don't have experience with the original 88.


did you find you can get velocities from 1-2 all the way to 127 with very little effort? The original was very smooth and effortless in this respect. I will wait to hear back about your experience IF you ever get it...I am going to keep my options open. Oh, one thing that I did love about the Hammer 88, is that while it is dual sensored, I found that it had a very high placed sensor which made repeated notes easier to perform.


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## Freudon33 (Jan 14, 2022)

and what do you think of the arturia keylab mk2 88?


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## jaketanner (Jan 15, 2022)

Freudon33 said:


> and what do you think of the arturia keylab mk2 88?


I haven’t played the MKII, but the original was clunky and noisy from what I remember. Not sure how much that’s improved. Even though it’s the same action as many others on the market, I think it’s the enclosure that causes these issues. At least with the old model. I have the MKII49 key and so far so good with the feature set.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 15, 2022)

side note:

FEDEX is terrible to deal with when a package is lost.

Since the package hasn't been scanned for 7 days, it is up to the SENDER to file a claim through fedex.com.

This will take the usual 7 to 10 business days.

The sender gets the refund.

Thank goodness the support person at M-Audio has been fantastic through this process.

All the while, though, I'm out the cash and the keyboard.

A cautionary tale.


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## Guavadude (Feb 7, 2022)

Did you ever receive the M88?


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 8, 2022)

Guavadude said:


> Did you ever receive the M88?


i assume you were asking me about my Hammer 88 Pro.

i did, after escalating the lost package with FEDEX.

this was my THIRD Hammer 88 Pro, and now, this one is going back as defective for a fourth!

i'm too deep into this to stop now!

;P


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## Baronvonheadless (Feb 8, 2022)

Holy crap you finally got your third one and it’s defective? That sucks…

I was hoping this model would be legit


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 9, 2022)

My experience with the firmware update:

It triggers "Vegas Mode" after 10 minutes of inactivity.

This makes the unit unusable for video shoots where I am away from the keyboard for other activities.

Plus the intermittent USB connectivity was a problem.

Using MIDI cables into my Babyface Pro solved that. I would use USB for the PC editing software only.

I had zero mechanical issues with the keybed. I love the feel.

It's a compromise, but with this next one:

1. No firmware update
2. MIDI cables
3. Occassional USB for Windows Preset editing

I can't get a refund, or trash this and spend over a grand on another controller.

So...


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## poly6 (Feb 9, 2022)

@Zoot_Rollo So aside from Vegas Mode, what resulted in the most recent return? The mixing pixels? Or the intermittent USB connectivity? Still seriously considering this board but I don't think I'd have the patience to deal with returning the device 3 times.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 9, 2022)

poly6 said:


> @Zoot_Rollo So aside from Vegas Mode, what resulted in the most recent return? The mixing pixels? Or the intermittent USB connectivity? Still seriously considering this board but I don't think I'd have the patience to deal with returning the device 3 times.


Vegas mode and intermittent USB

That's it

The display was good with the 3rd

If I hadn't updated the firmware, I would have been ok with this one

They couldn't tell me how to turn off or bypass Vegas Mode

Vegas Mode may not be an issue for some users, but annoying AF for me


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## Stevie (Feb 9, 2022)

Not trying to be negative, but from all the stories I would say that M-Audio is not ready for prime time…


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 9, 2022)

Stevie said:


> Not trying to be negative, but from all the stories I would say that M-Audio is not ready for prime time…


Perhaps

I may just have gotten lucky 

From all the reviews, no one else seems to have had my issues

As I mentioned, I have been very fortunate to have a fantastic M-Audio support person helping me out

Feature set, keybed, and price-point are perfect.

But if the software is touchy...


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## Stevie (Feb 9, 2022)

Well, definitely crossing my fingers and curious about your feedback.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 17, 2022)




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## Stevie (Feb 17, 2022)

Oh well! One of them should work? Otherwise, you could Frankenstein them together!


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 17, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


>



As you can see, M-Audio sent me TWO brand new Hammer 88 Pro units.

Your guess is as good as mine.

I assume they will ask me to ship one of them back, eventually.

So, I opened the higher serial number, plugged it in at 3:00pm PST today.

I left it as shipped - no firmware update, no preset nonsense.

We shall see.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 17, 2022)

Stevie said:


> Oh well! One of them should work? Otherwise, you could Frankenstein them together!


176 Key Controller

it really is a lovely keybed


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## Stevie (Feb 17, 2022)

How does the keybed feel, can you easily play double / triple tongue repetitions?


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 17, 2022)

Stevie said:


> How does the keybed feel, can you easily play double / triple tongue repetitions?


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 17, 2022)




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## Baronvonheadless (Feb 17, 2022)

So uhhhh. If they don’t. Wanna sell one at a discount? 😎😬🤞🏼


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## Stevie (Feb 17, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


>



That’s not what I was asking for.
I wanted to know if YOU can easily perform fast repetitions on the keyboard 😉


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 18, 2022)

Stevie said:


> That’s not what I was asking for.
> I wanted to know if YOU can easily perform fast repetitions on the keyboard 😉


I know it wasn't. I don't usually use my tongue when playing piano.

Define fast.

My technique is more of a limiting factor than the keyboard.


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## Stevie (Feb 18, 2022)

I will record a video in a few.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 18, 2022)

Stevie said:


> I will record a video in a few.


great - i'm curious to see how it holds up.

didn't you end up buying another keyboard?

update with the newest H88P:

No Vegas Mode!

Still connected via USB to Studio One and PianoTeq after 17 hours.


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## Stevie (Feb 18, 2022)

I ordered a Dexibell S7 Pro and the action was quite nice, however I did my multi tongue test and it failed miserably. The hand gets tired extremely fast.

This is on the S7 Pro (I can play this with ease on my old Yamaha P-300):









IMG_2020.MOV


Nextcloud - a safe home for all your data




nextcloud.stephanroemer.net


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 18, 2022)

Stevie said:


> I ordered a Dexibell S7 Pro and the action was quite nice, however I did my multi tongue test and it failed miserably. The hand gets tired extremely fast.
> 
> This is on the S7 Pro (I can play this with ease on my old Yamaha P-300):
> 
> ...



i need to setup video to capture this.

i don't have the facility to do that single handed as fast as you'd like to see.

would the two index finger approach work for ya?

maybe this weekend.

in the video i posted above, the guy says this technique can't be done on uprights.


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## Stevie (Feb 18, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i need to setup video to capture this.
> 
> i don't have the facility to do that single handed as fast as you'd like to see.
> 
> ...


Ah you don’t need to record a video. This was just for reference.
Need to check the upright piano video you posted.


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## Stevie (Feb 23, 2022)

Watched the video about the repetitions. Good one! That's exactly how I play the repetitions, as well:
with two fingers.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 26, 2022)

*Final update with the Hammer 88 Pro.*

M-Audio sent two units by mistake; I will send the second unit back next week.

I tested the 4th unit using just a USB connection to the rear motherboard USB 2 connector of my ASRock Tai Chi XE X299.

No Vegas mode – I will not update the firmware

Within 12 hours, the Hammer 88 Pro lost USB connection.

My initial workaround is to use MIDI cables into my Babyface Pro and a power adapter. Works great.

I would only use USB for preset editing.

Not satisfied, however, I did one last search about losing USB connections with Windows 10.

I came across a thread where someone posted a suggestion: use a PCIe USB 2 card.

I found a PCIe USB 2 card (not USB 3) made by StarTech.

I installed it and hooked up the Hammer 88 Pro early Thursday.

It has not disconnected.

Needless to say, I am pleased, but baffled.

None of my other USB controllers disconnected from my motherboard USB ports.

From my searches, USB connectivity is a widespread issue, and not just with MIDI instruments,

M-Audio support has been stellar. I’ve never worked with a company who worked so hard to make this right.

So, I am finally ecstatic about this controller.



Solved.


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## Stevie (Feb 26, 2022)

Sounds like a happy end! You are happy with the action of the H88?


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## Zoot_Rollo (Feb 26, 2022)

Stevie said:


> Sounds like a happy end! You are happy with the action of the H88?


i am!

past controllers were a Yamaha KX88 and a StudioLogic SL88 Studio.

The Hammer 88 Pro is a far above those for me.


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## sostenuto (Feb 26, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i am!
> 
> past controllers were a Yamaha KX88 and a StudioLogic SL88 Studio.
> 
> The Hammer 88 Pro is a far above those for me.


Soooooooo timely !! Was almost hitting 'BUY' for Roland A-88 MKII. Will really appreciate comment based on your ongoing Hammer 88 Pro experiences. 

M-Audio Axiom Pro61 user 'forever' .... amazing longevity, reliability.


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## Stevie (Feb 26, 2022)

Might want to read my short review on the A-88 MK2:





"really good" keyboard?


Well, I'd actually be totally happy with the action of my P-300. The problem just is, that it doesn't fit under my desk. So it doesn't necessarily be better, I'm already happy if it is equally good. But I just noticed that pretty much all Yamaha keyboards are above 14 cm in height. Therefore, I...




vi-control.net


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## I like music (Mar 2, 2022)

I'm looking for a "cheap" controller which I can use exclusively for practice (picked up a jazz course lately so want to work through that). I am a beginner at the piano in general. So I'm trying to find something which gives a close-enough piano feel so that my practice can be meaningful, but also something that doesn't break the bank.

Second thing is, I'd like it to simply record ideas as and when they come to me. So it wouldn't be used for my usual DAW work, but just to get my piano-version of my ideas down and recorded, before orchestrating them separately with mouse-clicking etc.

Are there any more seasoned pianists here that can comment on if the M-Audio Hammer 88 can suffice for now? I live in the middle of nowhere and can't visit any shops to try one.

Any help hugely appreciated!


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## jaketanner (Mar 2, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Soooooooo timely !! Was almost hitting 'BUY' for Roland A-88 MKII. Will really appreciate comment based on your ongoing Hammer 88 Pro experiences.
> 
> M-Audio Axiom Pro61 user 'forever' .... amazing longevity, reliability.


I’m gonna get the Roland as well. I had the original Hammer 88. Liked it a lot but sold it due to space issues. But I don’t need the bells and whistles of the Pro, however the Hammer 88 action was a bit noisy for me. The Roland is very quiet.


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## ZTime (Mar 2, 2022)

Could please someone measure the height of the Hammer 88 like this:
From the bottom of the chassis (excluding the rubber legs) to the most protruding knob - slider on the top of the keyboard. Trying to find the way to fit it on my under keyboard shelf.

Many thnx!


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 2, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> I’m gonna get the Roland as well. I had the original Hammer 88. Liked it a lot but sold it due to space issues. But I don’t need the bells and whistles of the Pro, however the Hammer 88 action was a bit noisy for me. The Roland is very quiet.


I don't mic the Hammer 88 Pro, so this is not an issue for me.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 2, 2022)

ZTime said:


> Could please someone measure the height of the Hammer 88 like this:
> From the bottom of the chassis (excluding the rubber legs) to the most protruding knob - slider on the top of the keyboard. Trying to find the way to fit it on my under keyboard shelf.
> 
> Many thnx!


the knobs above the pads are taller than the sliders.

a quick check: about 5-1/2".


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 2, 2022)

I like music said:


> I'm looking for a "cheap" controller which I can use exclusively for practice (picked up a jazz course lately so want to work through that). I am a beginner at the piano in general. So I'm trying to find something which gives a close-enough piano feel so that my practice can be meaningful, but also something that doesn't break the bank.
> 
> Second thing is, I'd like it to simply record ideas as and when they come to me. So it wouldn't be used for my usual DAW work, but just to get my piano-version of my ideas down and recorded, before orchestrating them separately with mouse-clicking etc.
> 
> ...


I just went through a Udemy Jazz Piano course last year to get some keyboard facility back after many years away.

I really like the action of the Hammer 88 Pro - but I'm hardly "seasoned".

Many have mentioned it is noisy, but I don't find it to be any louder than some of the uprights I used to play.

The Hammer 88 Pro sells for $799.00. But I got a 15% coupon from Musicians Friend when I bought mine.

$679.15 plus tax.

Read through the thread for my issues that were ultimately resolved.

The Roland A-88 MK2 sells for $1149.99 - no aftertouch.


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## I like music (Mar 2, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I just went through a Udemy Jazz Piano course last year to get some keyboard facility back after many years away.
> 
> I really like the action of the Hammer 88 Pro - but I'm hardly "seasoned".
> 
> ...


Thank you. Right. I'm not fussed in aftertouch and so basically was interested only in the Hammer 88 and not the pro. Do you happen to know if the key actions are the same (minus after touch?) 

In any case, glad you got your issues sorted. I'm also pleased to see their commitment to sorting your issues out. Makes me meow comfortable about buying their stuff.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 2, 2022)

I like music said:


> Thank you. Right. I'm not fussed in aftertouch and so basically was interested only in the Hammer 88 and not the pro. Do you happen to know if the key actions are the same (minus after touch?)



I have no experience with the Hammer 88.

From the BH Photo website:

*Hammer 88 Pro:*

88 Full-Size Keys
Graded/Scaled-Hammer Action with Aftertouch
Velocity
Location Sensing

*Hammer 88:*

88 Piano Keys
Hammer Action


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## jaketanner (Mar 2, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I don't mic the Hammer 88 Pro, so this is not an issue for me.


i meant key noise for when I use headphones that others can hear. Was a bit clunky. However, it's no where near as loud as the Casio series...man are those things a noise hazard..LOL. Ballads with headphones had to be cranked...forget about playing soft and intimate in the studio...LOL. At least the Hammer is not that bad.


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## Jrides (Mar 2, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> *Final update with the Hammer 88 Pro.*
> 
> M-Audio sent two units by mistake; I will send the second unit back next week.
> 
> ...



what is the model number of the card, for reference. In case anyone of us wants to follow your example.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 2, 2022)

Jrides said:


> what is the model number of the card, for reference. In case anyone of us wants to follow your example.


StarTech.com 4 Port PCI Express Low Profile High Speed USB Card​PCIe USB 2.0 Card - PCI-E USB 2.0 Card (PEXUSB4DP)​



I think Sweetwater sells this model as well.


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## I like music (Mar 2, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I have no experience with the Hammer 88.
> 
> From the BH Photo website:
> 
> ...


Ah thank you for this. Hmmm concerned that "full sized" keys isn't mentioned with the regular keyboard. I hope it doesn't mean the keys are narrower or anything. Will email them and report back here in case anyone else is also looking at getting one.


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## poly6 (Mar 2, 2022)

I've never heard anyone mention a key size difference between the H88 and H88Pro so I'm pretty sure they're the same. But you should be aware of the graded action of the H88Pro and the ungraded action of the H88. The graded action will be closer to a true piano action.


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## I like music (Mar 24, 2022)

So I bought a Hammer 88 from eBay. I've tried it on two macs but seems that the laptops just aren't picking it up (e.g. they don't see it connected as an input).

Literally no idea what to do. Anyone had experience here? Is there some kind of a reset on the controller itself?

It definitely lights up when I plug it into the laptop, so there is power. Also, that cable works just fine with those laptops and another controller. Hmmm...


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## jaketanner (Mar 24, 2022)

I like music said:


> So I bought a Hammer 88 from eBay. I've tried it on two macs but seems that the laptops just aren't picking it up (e.g. they don't see it connected as an input).
> 
> Literally no idea what to do. Anyone had experience here? Is there some kind of a reset on the controller itself?
> 
> It definitely lights up when I plug it into the laptop, so there is power. Also, that cable works just fine with those laptops and another controller. Hmmm...


the laptop might not have enough juice to properly power it. Are they old? If it lights, then it's getting some power...what library are you using that it's not seeing it?


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## I like music (Mar 24, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> the laptop might not have enough juice to properly power it. Are they old? If it lights, then it's getting some power...what library are you using that it's not seeing it?


Interesting! It is a Macbook Pro (early 2015) and the other one is a Macbook Air (M1, 2020)
First, I just checked the general inputs and it didn't show. But otherwise I was using the standalone trial version of Pianoteq. But also tried Reaper, where I've got a Sampletekk piano.

Good to know that there's a possibility that it is a 'power' issue. I wonder if getting a MIDI cable + interface might do the trick (though I'd much rather not do that if I can avoid it, as the interface is for my proper composing computer which is in a different building lol)

Thanks for the help.

EDIT: btw I also did try it with the mains power in (so both mains power + a USB cable). At a complete loss to be honest. Was hoping there would be some kind of a hardware reset on the device that might help but it doesn't seem so.


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## jaketanner (Mar 24, 2022)

I like music said:


> Interesting! It is a Macbook Pro (early 2015) and the other one is a Macbook Air (M1, 2020)
> First, I just checked the general inputs and it didn't show. But otherwise I was using the standalone trial version of Pianoteq. But also tried Reaper, where I've got a Sampletekk piano.
> 
> Good to know that there's a possibility that it is a 'power' issue. I wonder if getting a MIDI cable + interface might do the trick (though I'd much rather not do that if I can avoid it, as the interface is for my proper composing computer which is in a different building lol)
> ...


So you're not seeing it in standalone? what general inputs are you looking at? Each library has it's own MIDI section that you need to check off the controller to activate it.


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## jaketanner (Mar 24, 2022)

I like music said:


> I wonder if getting a MIDI cable + interface might do the trick


it will still end up on the same USB port...whether direct connect or through an interface. The interfaces don't provide power, unless you get a powered interface, but that defeats the purpose of the laptop..LOL


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## I like music (Mar 24, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> So you're not seeing it in standalone? what general inputs are you looking at? Each library has it's own MIDI section that you need to check off the controller to activate it.


As an example. With the hammer plugged in, I see this...





But with the much smaller Alesis 49, as soon as I plug it in, I see this. I remember that with the Alesis, I didn't have to configure anything. The mac seemed to just recognise it... see below:


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## I like music (Mar 24, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> it will still end up on the same USB port...whether direct connect or through an interface. The interfaces don't provide power, unless you get a powered interface, but that defeats the purpose of the laptop..LOL


haha yeah, fair point.


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## jaketanner (Mar 24, 2022)

I like music said:


> As an example. With the hammer plugged in, I see this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


if the Alesis also does not work, it might be a cable or the port. Can you try different ports? Also, you already said the Hammer works on your desktop right? So then it may be either the port, or not enough power. Have you installed the Hammer software? Maybe try that, and also make sure you are on the latest firmware...it might need an update.


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## I like music (Mar 24, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> if the Alesis also does not work, it might be a cable or the port. Can you try different ports? Also, you already said the Hammer works on your desktop right? So then it may be either the port, or not enough power. Have you installed the Hammer software? Maybe try that, and also make sure you are on the latest firmware...it might need an update.


Sorry, the Alesis works immediately. Hammer I haven't tried on my desktop (had to put that old thing in storage). Might have to go dig it out! 

When you say port, do you mean USB port? 

Thank you for trying to fix. Very much appreciate it!


----------



## poly6 (Mar 24, 2022)

Do you have a MIDI adapter for your Mac? Maybe try to connect the keyboard using a MIDI cable. In the Amazon reviews for the H88, there were some reports of USB port problems.


----------



## jaketanner (Mar 25, 2022)

I like music said:


> Sorry, the Alesis works immediately. Hammer I haven't tried on my desktop (had to put that old thing in storage). Might have to go dig it out!
> 
> When you say port, do you mean USB port?
> 
> Thank you for trying to fix. Very much appreciate it!


yes, USB port...hopefully you can try other ports on your laptop/desktop to see if it the keyboard or your computer...also swap the cable.


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## I like music (Mar 28, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> yes, USB port...hopefully you can try other ports on your laptop/desktop to see if it the keyboard or your computer...also swap the cable.


Deleting my last msg. I am somehow (after plugging and unplugging the new MIDI-to-USB cable) getting some kind of signal, but I don't know what this signal is?

Is anyone able to help please? I feel like I'm close...


----------



## jaketanner (Mar 28, 2022)

I like music said:


> Deleting my last msg. I am somehow (after plugging and unplugging the new MIDI-to-USB cable) getting some kind of signal, but I don't know what this signal is?
> 
> Is anyone able to help please? I feel like I'm close...


Looks like a MIDI monitor. Tells you MIDI information like note and velocity values. I’m on a Mac, so might be a bit different…but my Hammer 88( when I had it), worked flawlessly. Plug and play. If you are getting signal, there is no reason that your VIs aren’t seeing it. Last thing to try is to open an actual MIDI channel instead of an instrument channel. Assign the sounds that way. Depending on your DAW, you will need a MIDI and Aux track. I use Pro Tools mostly.


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## jaketanner (Mar 28, 2022)

I like music said:


> Deleting my last msg. I am somehow (after plugging and unplugging the new MIDI-to-USB cable) getting some kind of signal, but I don't know what this signal is?
> 
> Is anyone able to help please? I feel like I'm close...


If you do it the way I mentioned, via a MIDI track, you are bypassing the need to have the VI recognize the H88. See if that works. Try a built in VI from your DAW as well.


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## I like music (Mar 28, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> If you do it the way I mentioned, via a MIDI track, you are bypassing the need to have the VI recognize the H88. See if that works. Try a built in VI from your DAW as well.


Fantastic, thank you so much. I will try tomorrow. Off to bed. Met someone two days ago who then tested positive for covid. Last few hours I feel rough as hell.


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## jaketanner (Mar 28, 2022)

I like music said:


> Fantastic, thank you so much. I will try tomorrow. Off to bed. Met someone two days ago who then tested positive for covid. Last few hours I feel rough as hell.


get rest...


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## I like music (Mar 29, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> get rest...


Thanks!
So it turns out that no signal is received until I first hit the pitch-bend wheel. And for some reason (randomly) in hours of messing around, the signal did change twice. Once the MIDI monitor told me the signal was a "note on" and "note off" but it only registered on some of the keys, and even then the key I was pressing e.g. E3 is not what it was sounding.

And then (I don't know how) the input chnaged to "Aftertouch"

I've been in touch with m-audio but haven't heard from them at all. There has to be a way - via the hardware - to change the incoming message. I feel I'm close, but don't know how to get closer!

At the very least, something is being transmitted through the cable. Just what that signal is, isn't under my control. Hopefully they can advise!


----------



## jaketanner (Mar 29, 2022)

I like music said:


> Thanks!
> So it turns out that no signal is received until I first hit the pitch-bend wheel. And for some reason (randomly) in hours of messing around, the signal did change twice. Once the MIDI monitor told me the signal was a "note on" and "note off" but it only registered on some of the keys, and even then the key I was pressing e.g. E3 is not what it was sounding.
> 
> And then (I don't know how) the input chnaged to "Aftertouch"
> ...


Have you considered that you got a faulty unit from ebay? You bought second hand right?


----------



## I like music (Mar 29, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> Have you considered that you got a faulty unit from ebay? You bought second hand right?


Yeah, I've been in touch with the seller and they are trying to help me too. If I can't resolve, I may send back.


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## jaketanner (Mar 29, 2022)

I like music said:


> Yeah, I've been in touch with the seller and they are trying to help me too. If I can't resolve, I may send back.


Hope you can get it sorted out. The unit itself was great when I had it...It gave me exactly the velocities I wanted when I wanted them with little effort. The Roland unit I got now isn't as great with the velocity settings and requires a bit more effort to reach min and max ranges...but it's easy to switch between curves.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 29, 2022)

final update:

USB finally gave out on the 5th unit. It reconnects after cycling the power, but only for a period of time.

using a power adapter and MIDI cables into my Babyface Pro - it's a workaround, but it does work.


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## jaketanner (Mar 29, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> final update:
> 
> USB finally gave out on the 5th unit. It reconnects after cycling the power, but only for a period of time.
> 
> using a power adapter and MIDI cables into my Babyface Pro - it's a workaround, but it does work.


Damn. Get the Roland. Lol.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 29, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> Damn. Get the Roland. Lol.


ha! then i'd have to get some kind of slider/fader unit - ugh, F that.

nahhh, i'm done.

i love the keyboard - i'll use USB for library utility functions only.

again, it works great with MIDI cables.

since i switched i haven't given it a second thought and it's been running flawlessly for weeks.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 30, 2022)

plus i like having aftertouch.

i don't understand why Roland skips this with many of their controllers.

it's a compromise with most of these 88 key devices.

i didn't have USB with my KX88.


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## jaketanner (Mar 30, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> plus i like having aftertouch.
> 
> i don't understand why Roland skips this with many of their controllers.
> 
> ...


I have AT with my Arturia, but i find it a pain...if i press heavy it writes information that's not there. Also, AT on a weighted keybed (sometimes) creates sponginess...since it can't bottom out, so when you play hard, you're gonna get AT all of the place. I know it can be disabled, but I'd rather not mess with that on an 88.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 30, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> it writes information that's not there.



?


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## jaketanner (Mar 30, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> ?


I mean it writes aftertouch info, when I am not using aftertouch...simply because of the pressure.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 31, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> I mean it writes aftertouch info, when I am not using aftertouch...simply because of the pressure.


ooofah, i don't experience that with the Hammer 88 Pro - AT is very nice.


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## jaketanner (Mar 31, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> ooofah, i don't experience that with the Hammer 88 Pro - AT is very nice.


I guess with a synth type it’s more sensitive. Especially when I play a bit harder for short string dynamics.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Mar 31, 2022)




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## I like music (Apr 1, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> Damn. Get the Roland. Lol.


Bought another MIDI cable from Amazon. Plugged it in, and I have been in heaven for the last 10 minutes. This combined with Pianoteq feels incredible.

(Have never had a weighted MIDI keyboard before). 

Thank you for all your help. I'm off to butcher some very simple Grade 1 piano pieces!


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## jaketanner (Apr 1, 2022)

I like music said:


> Bought another MIDI cable from Amazon. Plugged it in, and I have been in heaven for the last 10 minutes. This combined with Pianoteq feels incredible.
> 
> (Have never had a weighted MIDI keyboard before).
> 
> Thank you for all your help. I'm off to butcher some very simple Grade 1 piano pieces!


I’m glad. Have fun.


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## poly6 (Apr 1, 2022)

I like music said:


> Bought another MIDI cable from Amazon. Plugged it in, and I have been in heaven for the last 10 minutes. This combined with Pianoteq feels incredible.
> 
> (Have never had a weighted MIDI keyboard before).
> 
> Thank you for all your help. I'm off to butcher some very simple Grade 1 piano pieces!


And since the H88 is a pretty basic board in that it doesn't have very much you can edit/tweak on it, you should be fine never needing to connect to it over USB. 

ENJOY!


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## I like music (Apr 1, 2022)

poly6 said:


> And since the H88 is a pretty basic board in that it doesn't have very much you can edit/tweak on it, you should be fine never needing to connect to it over USB.
> 
> ENJOY!


Right, exactly! I bought it so that I can practise piano while I'm taking short breaks from work. It'll just be there next to me, connected to pianoteq. When a particularly boring zoom call happens at work, I can listen in and play at the same time!


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## andyhy (Apr 1, 2022)

When considering a new midi keyboard don't overlook 2nd hand synths like the old Roland Fantom G8 I use as my midi controller. All I had to do was modify the driver so it works with Windows 10. Has everything I need, CC faders/knobs, aftertouch adjustment, the lot. The weighted keys make it just like playing a real piano. I've looked at new midi controllers but they don't offer anything additional and most offer less control and poorer quality keybeds. My credit card is grateful!.


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## I like music (Apr 2, 2022)

While we're here, what do you all put your controllers on? 

I can't have it on a desk. Will need some kind of (cheap but durable) stand. 

Any recommendations? 

Thanks!


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## jaketanner (Apr 2, 2022)

I like music said:


> While we're here, what do you all put your controllers on?
> 
> I can't have it on a desk. Will need some kind of (cheap but durable) stand.
> 
> ...


I use a heavy duty Z stand. Trust me, it’s worth the extra to get it. It’s rock solid, doesn’t move and adjustable width. Get it from Amazon.


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## I like music (Apr 2, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> I use a heavy duty Z stand. Trust me, it’s worth the extra to get it. It’s rock solid, doesn’t move and adjustable width. Get it from Amazon.



Perfect, this will do nicely. Thank you!


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## gbar (Aug 16, 2022)

I like music said:


> While we're here, what do you all put your controllers on?
> 
> I can't have it on a desk. Will need some kind of (cheap but durable) stand.
> 
> ...


I am about to order a Hammer 88 PRO, and I am going to put it on the keyboard shelf of this custom design workstation from mgeardesign.ca

Jamie at mgeardesign.ca does have a number of workstation designs that will work, and you can have him tweak designs if you like. You get favorable conversion rates from US dollars to Canadian, so that helps because shipping is pricey 

There is a 6-8 week lead time for custom work. Not sure about his designs in terms of time until shipping. You pay half up front, and half when the thing is ready to ship.

He will probably assemble it, send you pics, then break it down, flat pack it in boxes, send you pdf instructions *basically all the 1 sticker piece go together, 2 stickers together, etc).

You need a Robertson #2 Screwdriver and a very short Roberton #2 (or some kind of short ratchet with a square number 2 bit) to put the wood pieces together. Kind of an IKEA moment there.

I pad 1200 for this custom design, but shipping via UPS was 400 bucks.

If you need the unit/shelf to be wider or something, they will do that. I made my unit deeper, and had monitor stands replaced with a monitor bridge with 3, 3U racks instead. The unit is deeper to allow for a rail-mounted server chasis with server rails running from front to back rack rails. I also requested square hole rack rails so I could put cage nuts in (don't like the idea of rack rails getting threads stripped). My custom unit took about 6 weeks.






Workstations


Handcrafted Technical & Recording Studio Furniture including workstations, audio racks, stands, lecterns & more.



mgeardesign.ca


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## I like music (Aug 17, 2022)

gbar said:


> I am about to order a Hammer 88 PRO, and I am going to put it on the keyboard shelf of this custom design workstation from mgeardesign.ca
> 
> Jamie at mgeardesign.ca does have a number of workstation designs that will work, and you can have him tweak designs if you like. You get favorable conversion rates from US dollars to Canadian, so that helps because shipping is pricey
> 
> ...


That looks beautiful! Currently saving up for pacific strings and a new computer so the budget would have to go that way. 

Hilariously, had the controller perched on a couple of boxes until recently haha. 

If you ever get sick of your setup and want to donate it to charity, ping me and I'll give it to a guy in need for you 😂


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## gbar (Aug 31, 2022)

Well, got the new controller, and now it makes me want a triple pedal and pianoteq because now that is possible.


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