# GPO Group buy



## MCS (May 8, 2005)

Hi!

Just found the GPO group buy, maybe someone is interessted:

https://www.amerifare.com/harps/GPO-GroupBuyForm.htm

best,
Michael


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## Waywyn (May 8, 2005)

wow really coool, ...uh... when will this thread be banned like the ew platinum group buy?


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## MCS (May 8, 2005)

hehe we will see, now it?s 30 minutes old :D


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## Waywyn (May 8, 2005)

i think i ment it more sarcastic because it is not going to be deleted.

now it is clear that gary has the ruling hand over NS

or

mr. chalk (sorry, can't name this guy papa) doesn't likes EW very much.

i am not really trying to get NS sinking but i just see whats going on there and it is really dictatorship.


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## MCS (May 8, 2005)

yes it?s not very nice what?s going on there; I think they would all benefit, if they all would work together.
EW did the right step to create their own Forum, I think....

Nevertheless I think GPO is worth a look for $139....


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## choc0thrax (May 8, 2005)

Eh, even at the group buy price it's not worth it. I can buy a good frisbee for only like 5 bucks.


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## Marsdy (May 8, 2005)

$139 sounds a bit steep to me. You could probably pick up a Proteus 2 on eBay for not much more.  :wink:


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## CJ (May 8, 2005)

Nice - EW group buy gets deleted while Garritan's group buy remains :?:


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## fst (May 8, 2005)

CJ said:


> Nice - EW group buy gets deleted while Garritan's group buy remains :?:



Larry Seyer's was deleted too.....


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## Simon Ravn (May 8, 2005)

Does it come as a surprise that Gary owns NS? Maybe not legally, but in reality he seems to be calling the shots. Makes me puke all over his harps.


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## choc0thrax (May 8, 2005)

Simon Ravn said:


> Makes me puke all over his harps.



I'd pay to see that.


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## Waywyn (May 8, 2005)

okay i will give you the video tape later because i would be the one who is holding the camera and record


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## Journeyman (May 8, 2005)

Greetings,

Out of curiousity, would there be any benefit to my buying GPO if I already own EWQLSO Gold? Here are my specific concerns:

1) Would GPO make up for any deficiencies in Gold, ie. woodwinds, etc? 
2) What about GPO's ability to be used for playback in Finale? Could that be done w/ Gold on a Mac? 
3) GPO comes with Kontakt as opposed to Gold's Kompakt. Would that serve as a useful advantage as well?

I'd appreciate your insights.

Thanks,
-Mark


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## Waywyn (May 8, 2005)

you know what. i am a little pissed about that what is going on at NS but besides that, my opinion is, if you have gold you are kinda set for a while.

maybe you would like to mix stuff up but better go and get kontakt 2 with some of the vsl samples incl. legato script etc. the price is maybe a little higher but muuuuch better than the kindergarden-orchestra.


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## Frederick Russ (May 8, 2005)

Mark,

The Kontakt Player w/GPO is ram based whereas the Kompakt Player w/Gold uses direct from disk streaming, therefore you'll need to allocate RAM to run GPO. This may be an issue if you're planning to use your sequencer to run other libraries depending upon what Mac version you have. 

If you're simply wanting sounds to go with a notation program I think GPO has one built in. Contact EW if you need to configure Gold to respond to Finale.

GPO would be fine for fleshing out a rough sketch of an orchestral arrangement on a laptop but personally I wouldn't use these sounds in the final mix simply because to my ears there are library sounds I like far better. I think I would recommend Kontakt 2 first before this and ideally perhaps VSL Opus One which to me would be a great enhancement in conjunction to Gold.

Hope this helps.


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## Journeyman (May 8, 2005)

Thanks for your response. GPO's ability to be used for playback in Finale is pretty compelling, unless you can tell me that another library can be used in the same way. I wouldn't be using GPO for the high quality mockups, but I'm thinking that it would sure be better than using the built in soundfonts that come with Finale.


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## Journeyman (May 8, 2005)

Thanks for your answers Frederick. I'll look into if and how Gold can be used with Finale. Thanks!


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## Waywyn (May 8, 2005)

sorry mark, but in between that little rage i forgot one thing 

you could also try to download marble midi drivers and do a virtual midi route from the outputs of finale to the gold stand alone.

i am not really sure how you exactly have to do it, but generally it should work by just assigning the outputs via marble-drivers.


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## synergy543 (May 8, 2005)

Frederick Russ said:


> If you're simply wanting sounds to go with a notation program I think GPO has one built in. Contact EW if you need to configure Gold to respond to Finale.


Just for the record, the GPO group buy version doesn't come with Overture.


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## synergy543 (May 8, 2005)

Waywyn said:


> sorry mark, but in between that little rage i forgot one thing
> 
> you could also try to download marble midi drivers and do a virtual midi route from the outputs of finale to the gold stand alone.
> 
> i am not really sure how you exactly have to do it, but generally it should work by just assigning the outputs via marble-drivers.


I think he's on a Mac. 

I'm not sure how you would re-route MIDI from a notation program on a Mac to EWQLSO. Anyone know? My understanding is that part of the problem is how do you select articulations or perform program changes to do so. Suggestions?


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## dcoscina (May 8, 2005)

No offence to Gary or anyone at Garritan but this is not a great deal. Over 200 people have to sign on and you still have to pay over $100 for GPO. As others have stated, I wouldn't pay $50 for it. I'd put it towards something useful like oh, EWQLSO SIlver Pro or else keep it in the piggy bank towards Opus 1/2 bundle.

And the fact that it hasn't been withdrawn from NS just reinforces the political B.S. that is stinking up that forum.

Honestly, I keep trying to find something good about GPO but, as a user of EWQLSO Gold and Silver, Project SAM, VSL from Kontakt, Prime Sounds Session Strings (which were $100), and SAM Horns, I have no use for it. The english horn on my 15 year old Proteus 2 sounds better fro cryin out loud....


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## Evan Gamble (May 8, 2005)

I just received a warning from Mr. Chalk for posting on the Group Buy thread. He said I was posting "garbage and misinformation". :D


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## Evan Gamble (May 8, 2005)

WOW both me and Alex got banned! :D GO TEAM!


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## choc0thrax (May 8, 2005)

I predicted that Alex would get banned today but I was eating chips and forgot to post my thoughts.


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## dcoscina (May 8, 2005)

Journeyman said:


> Thanks for your answers Frederick. I'll look into if and how Gold can be used with Finale. Thanks!



I'm using Overture with EWQLSO Gold. I got Vstack a while back and it works like a charm! But then again, I'm just waiting until Overture 4 comes out with its ability to directly import VSTi's. Sweeeet.


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## dcoscina (May 8, 2005)

evan gamble said:


> WOW both me and Alex got banned! :D GO TEAM!



Alex who?


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 8, 2005)

The other two Group Buy's were most likely deleted because they were unsolicited/unsponsored. 

Don't forget EW *DID* have a group buy there for Gold and it was there because it was sponsored. You can't just go in and post every group buy that exists without it being sponsered by the forum. Most forums are this way (not all).

Its funny when you guys act all like EW is the poor red-headed step-child - if only you knew. They had their Group Buy - now its someone else's turn - and if you watch - there will be more in the future. No one's being picked on here - EW already had one and if Larry Seyer wants to do one he only needs to set it up with the admins I'm sure and it will be fine.


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## choc0thrax (May 8, 2005)

Perhaps Gary should jsut get it over with and buy Northernsounds and turn it into GarySounds. Maybe paint rainbows and children from around the world holding hands all over the place with big dollar signs hidden in the background.


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## TheoKrueger (May 8, 2005)

Neutral :?


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## José Herring (May 8, 2005)

evan gamble said:


> WOW both me and Alex got banned! :D GO TEAM!



What happened? Did I miss something good today? Man, see what happens when you take your mother out.

Jose


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## Marsdy (May 9, 2005)

Mr Papa seems to be doing everything he can to destroy his own forum. This would seem like an odd thing to do seeing as he's gone out of his way to cream as much money out of it as he can at the expense of the interests of the sample using community. The GPO group buy would be even cheaper if Papa wasn't getting his cut I would think.

But when you bear in mind that the guy really is a total moron who can barely string together a cohesive sentence, his behavior becomes more understandable. I'm surprised Mr Garritan doesn't set up his own forum like EW did. I don't think he does his credibility much good being so closely associated with the likes of Mr Papa.


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## Waywyn (May 9, 2005)

heyjo i got banned too 

it is really funny because the only solution for him is just to get rid of everyone who is not fitting in the picture.

even ewqlso got their group buy and gary is now next in the row, i can't understand why larry's groupbuy was deleted.

NS is dead for my (oh, really? sure you are banned!), and this place is really not living any longer. maybe just filled with children and rainbows all over it etc. 

the funny thing i received two messages from papa chalk and i can't even read it :lol: 

long live V.I. :!:

edit: oh by the way, why did he send me two private messages when i get banned anyway? let me guess, the first one was to ask me if i delete my posts or edit them and if i not do so he would warn me again and then bann me  the funny thing is, as it seems, he wasn't aware of the time zones  even i have to sleep 

anyway, i am off there and maybe it is better so the world over at NS can start to fill with big funny colored flowers and may everybody live in piece over there.


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## Evan Gamble (May 9, 2005)

i got both of them and read them..there wasnt anything interesting, he asked if i was aware of the rules, and if i had anyother questions. YOu also missed a post that chalk put on that thread that said something like "Waywyn seeya later dude, I dont know what hot air has been going through your head" or something like that. Since then he has edited to say "do not hi-jack this thread". Then he banned my IP address. 8)


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## Marsdy (May 9, 2005)

You probably haver a dynamic IP address so next time you boot up/log on/reset your modem/whatever you can get back on. Not that there's a good reason to get back on NS.


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## Waywyn (May 9, 2005)

Marsdy said:


> You probably haver a dynamic IP address so next time you boot up/log on/reset your modem/whatever you can get back on. Not that there's a good reason to get back on NS.



if you would ask me: not really :? 

what is left? i am banned on the gpo forum before by just saying that gpo is a cool tool but i still don't own it (let me think about that: i got banned because i don't have anything?)

east west forum is gone anyway and the only thing which is really interesting there is that eric persing and his stuff is still discussed there but he got his own community.

so what else is left? only gpo kids telling "wow, great composition" about nearly everything which is posted there and pushing themselves up to a level that they call themselves professionals on their websites.


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## lux (May 9, 2005)

evan gamble said:


> i got both of them and read them..there wasnt anything interesting, he asked if i was aware of the rules, and if i had anyother questions. YOu also missed a post that chalk put on that thread that said something like "Waywyn seeya later dude, I dont know what hot air has been going through your head" or something like that. Since then he has edited to say "do not hi-jack this thread". Then he banned my IP address. 8)



..so young...already banned...

...ah...those times...


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## dcoscina (May 9, 2005)

Lincoln Flesch said:


> The other two Group Buy's were most likely deleted because they were unsolicited/unsponsored.
> 
> Its funny when you guys act all like EW is the poor red-headed step-child - if only you knew. They had their Group Buy - now its someone else's turn - and if you watch - there will be more in the future. No one's being picked on here - EW already had one and if Larry Seyer wants to do one he only needs to set it up with the admins I'm sure and it will be fine.



I don't think it's a question of "poor East West" Lincoln. It's more to do with how arbitrary PapaChalk is with his compulsive banning of members. On most boards, someone is banned if they are consistently insulting other members or generally trolling. Northern Sounds bans people at the drop of a hat for a variety of reasons.

Are the developers too senstive to take criticism? I know that both Herb and Dietz on the VSL forum are pretty patient with their customers and have even allowed a Platinum Group Buy thread to remain active on their website. I doubt many other sites would do the same for their competition. And I'm not saying this because I'm an avid VSL user- I do have their sounds by way of Kontakt 2 and Gigastudio only. East West has more of my hard earned cash. And I think Doug and Nick are pretty good guys too.

Ultimately, I think most posters are vocal about the lack of tolerance at NSS over what comes down to opinions. My feeling is that they are losing a lot of very incisive people with the constant banning. Their loss.


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 9, 2005)

*Northern Sounds bans people at the drop of a hat for a variety of reasons... Are the developers too senstive to take criticism? *

Maybe. I honestly don't know. I read all the posts before they were removed and some of them were just annoying in how ignorant (uninformed) they were. And yes it was posting misinformation as truth. Ignorance (uninformed) is annoying. Perhaps those who were banned were done so just so NS wouldn't have to deal with annoying misinformation anymore?

*I know that both Herb and Dietz on the VSL forum are pretty patient with their customers and have even allowed a Platinum Group Buy thread to remain active on their website. I doubt many other sites would do the same for their competition. *

I agree that's pretty cool of them. I have always thought developers should first be friends before anything else, its such a small market to be cut-throat in. Other developers feel differently. Live and let be.

*Ultimately, I think most posters are vocal about the lack of tolerance at NSS over what comes down to opinions. My feeling is that they are losing a lot of very incisive people with the constant banning. Their loss.*

If they chose to lose these people that is their choice. I would assume they don't see it as a loss if they are so fast to ban. I like the VI moderation team, they seem easy going. But you also see some disrespect in some posts because of it.

Besides that, it seems everyone takes this stuff WAY too seriously. I think everyone needs to lighten up their online persona. It just isn't that important. Really. I mean, if NS is as worthless and dead and uncool as everyone says it is - then why is everyone so worried about being or not being allowed there?


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## Frederick Russ (May 9, 2005)

Marsdy said:


> Mr Papa seems to be doing everything he can to destroy his own forum........ But when you bear in mind that the guy really is a total moron who can barely string together a cohesive sentence, his behavior becomes more understandable



I don't pretend to agree with what happens on NS, but the point is that it is their forum - they can do what they want. I wouldn't go so far as the "total moron" bit because he was instrumental in implementing the idea of NS which - for good or ill - brought composers together from around the world into one place. 

I was a johnny-come-lately in 2002 so I wasn't there during the beginnings which I'm told were very similar to VI in many respects. Part of the change may have been by making the site more or less like a showroom floor commercial for developers. Another challenge was the competitive rivalry between two major developers and between the groups that would line in behind them which can change a culture overnight.

The term "Papa" denotes family. Traditionally families are not a democracy at all because a lot of the parameters are set by those in charge. Why? Because children do not know any better. Punishment is meted out "for their own good" - and admittedly in this construct sometimes its needed. The system works until the child is old enough to self-govern and can start their own lives. 

Personally I have better things to do than complain about what happens on another forum - they are what they are. Whether or not I agree with them really doesn't matter because truly it's their place. 

Solution? Create our own place here at VI and make it the best we can. It's already happening. :D


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## Waywyn (May 9, 2005)

thanks for your answer lincoln but honestly, i don't care anymore.

when i first discovered NS it was like composers paradise. an international world full of composers and people to share opinions with. also i met really nice people i have steady contact with and learn a loooot of stuff.

but ...

my feeling is that all this stuff started with the post when bela posted the 500th post about a diva demo. it was so much that even i got bored and i don't care about diva because i don't like it ...anyway, a member posted some earplugs pic as a joke and he got banned because of this.

banned, because of some earplugpics?

frederick was banned over at NS because he did a post about his forum or so. i think people should there to help and support each other but all what chalk wants is money ... and this is definitely obvious.

i got banned of gpo forum because i just stated that i don't have it but it is okay at a tool. what is so bad about that? what makes this argument wrong, that i have to get banned?
do you know how many times i posted in german forums that gpo is cool and cheap, guys, get it if you want a cool tool to start with? too much. i guess mr. garritan made a lot of money from me by just posting in some german forums when gpo was released. that was before silver came out and to this point it was really a cool sketching tool. gpo is not more for me but why is it wrong to state that like this?

there are so many people who got banned because of just some little statements about plugins and compositions.

what is wrong about telling critics or comments on libraries or even demos or user compositions? does it help when people just tell you "great, awesome, cool, wow, glorious"

i remember quite a few user demos and official demos who were really bad, no matter which library. so what was wrong about helping or support this guys to make the next one better?

i really liked it a lot when people came up to me and were critising my demos, because that is the way you learn.

honestly i think that NS destroyed a lot by banning members and don't let people speak their free will.

okay it is maybe not allright to post earplugs or it may not be alright to give a useless comment to something, but bann somebody because of this ??? lool, sorry, i don't understand.


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 9, 2005)

Alex,

I completely understand what you are saying.

As for the ear plugs pic, I didn't see that, but if I had made that demo song I would have been really hurt if someone posted that. It isn't constructive like someone saying "hey I don't like this because the strings are too loud," or "I don't think the legato patch on the flute is working, you may want to try..." that stuff helps. Posting a picture of earplugs just seems mean and thoughtless. Did whoever post that have a history of those kinds of actions?

Well, be glad VI is here for when people want to post ear plug responses. Just kidding. I've only posted one demo here so far and recieved many helpful suggestions.


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## Leon Willett (May 9, 2005)

Heheheh 

I find it hillarious that so many of us have been banned from NS :D My last two posts there were deleted and then I was banned... I didn't know there were so many of us! 

One of my last two posts was deleted as part of a thread. A chinese sample developer "Kong Audio" came on advertising a 15$ chinese flute. I bought it and reposted saying it was a good buy and I recomended it. Next I know it was deleted because they hadn't paid for advertising. You would think NS would have the sense to support a brand new, tiny developer trying to sell his first instrument for 15$ until his business was up and running. 

Anyway, it's nice having our ex-NS forum here


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## Marsdy (May 9, 2005)

Frederick Russ said:


> Marsdy said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Papa seems to be doing everything he can to destroy his own forum........ But when you bear in mind that the guy really is a total moron who can barely string together a cohesive sentence, his behavior becomes more understandable
> ...



Well that's true but... NS had become a major hub for the sample user and developer community and was promoted as such. Musicians relied on it as a source of information and forum for discussion. As such, I feel the owners had a responsibility to treat everyone in an even handed and consistent way, they were a sort of UN for musicians in many ways! Sadly they failed and abused the position they found themselves in. If they choose to act the way they do and appear to promote their own commercial interests over and above any other considerations then they reap what they sow.

In short, NS had become the main means musicians and developers interacted with each other. Unfortunately the owners seem to have gone out of their way to alienate the people who put them where they are in the first place. I still look in there from time to time but for me it has long since lost it's usefulness.


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## Waywyn (May 9, 2005)

Lincoln Flesch said:


> Alex,
> 
> I completely understand what you are saying.
> 
> ...



lincoln,

yes you are kinda right. i would also feel a little hurt, but wouln't you get bored if a developer posts 100 demos of one library and you always here different music with the same "oohoohoooo". i know it is not right and very sarcastic BUT this is no reason to ban somebody. of course there should be respect but this is still no reason to ban somebody.

i guess there will be some more story come up like leon posted right now.

you know simply what th future will be of NS?
i just had a little chat with a buddy and we brought it to some down to something really simple:

- more pros, helpful composers and people with a free meaning are get banned, because they not fit the picture because critisizing a demo could be making the product bad (or simply don't post anymore)

- sample devs who are not willing to pay (or not enough) or are very small/starting a career don't able to get even a foot on NS

- the hobby composers will grow bigger on NS and you know what then happens ??

- libraries getting worse and really cheap on NS because it will be ruled by one person with a big G

NS will get uninteresting because no one buys the big stuff anymore and all pros are gone!

... and then it will be just a kindergarden place and maybe the kids really start what was already a wrong spreaded rumor who we and some others were accused by chalk and garritan:
people start to trade cracked stuff in chat channels, because hobby kids won't have too much money, to spend on libs. they are happy with gpo and thats it, but not selling libs for a couple of thousand bucks

i may not be right, but this is a ways it could happen and NS will go down slowly.


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 9, 2005)

> ...it will be ruled by one person with a big G...



Well, I doubt that's true. EW may be gone (by their choice according to their public statemnets anyway) but you still have 

**Sonic Implants* 
**Bela D Media* 
**PMI Post* 
**SampleTekk* 
**Spectrasonics* 
**VSL* 
**ArtVista* 
**Bardstown Audio* 
**Project SAM*
**Scarbee*
**Dan Dean*
**Chicken Systems*
**Samplicity*
*that *LPC* guy

and others, among Garritan.

NS might have lost a few people to the SoundsOnline forum - but I would bet most still visit NS and NS was built with everyone working together to figure all this stuff out in the beginning, nothing wrong with that continuing. You too were a newbie once don't forget. We all were.


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## Waywyn (May 9, 2005)

Lincoln Flesch said:


> > ...it will be ruled by one person with a big G...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you may be right with Sonic Implants. they have a forum, but all the others? no! they just there.

and yes, i am aware of that i once was a newbie and i still have a lot and tons of stuff to learn but i am just talking that people, even IF or WHEN they get professional (or are just a little clever) leave this place because you cant learn or improve if you only hear "awesome, astonishing, sounds great, wow, impressing) 60% of the stuff which is posted there is just 2-10 tracks in cubase and stuff which is done within a few hours

"look what i can do, i can also open my sequencer and import the string section and add a few horns with percussion"

then someone comes up to him and tries to help:
"dude, try to get this and this right and maybe try that and that, it should sound better etc"

but then suddenly people get pissed or just not insightful

there are some people who really understand how it works, but i once made the experience that a really bad demo was posted and the developer really kinda praised the composer, what great stuff he had done. it wasn't even a matter of taste, it was just BAD and crap, then i just gave a few comments and helpful critics and the developer just moaned about what i am saying there... damn is that helpful? 

i mean look whats going on? there are also a lot of the big guys gone. do you see maarten posting there? jazz? i am sure besides they have a lot of work, they don't have fun to post there unless they have to.

it is just a matter of time and more people will recognize that after a while and one is also fact: there were never so many people got banned from the forum like in the last months/last year


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## choc0thrax (May 9, 2005)

Waywyn, it's just a forum! Maybe you need some time off from the internet to think about other things. Take a walk on a beach or kill some hobo's...or better yet kill some beach hobo's. This thread is fun and all but i'd much rather see posting in the custom library area which seems to have died.


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## Waywyn (May 9, 2005)

yeh you right 

but the funny thing is that letters and written words look more angry and aggressive in the readers head - can't help but it is always like this.

i am calm like a palm  ... but the thing which is just going on since the last year on this forum is somehow strange ...

the thing which even more bugs me is that we are the bad guys now, but all we try is to open some eyes or ask questions and say thing nobody seems to dare ... but it is so important to not just bann and accuse, but to LISTEN to someone. NS showed that this is not possible over there. so we will see whats happening in the future.


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## Marsdy (May 9, 2005)

It seems the the GPO apologists have had their cage rattled.

"WE REALLY LOVE YOU PAPA,
WE LOVE YOU GARRITAN,
WE WISH THOSE VI PEOPLE
WOULD GET RUN OVER BY A VAN

YA BOO, YA BOO
VI REALLY SUCKS
YA BOO, YA BOO
LET'S HIT THEM WITH A TRUCK..."

For the first time ever I wish was I wasn't banned so I could have some fun over there.


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## Simon Ravn (May 9, 2005)

Marsdy, yeah they're having a good time in their coffee club. Francis is rather cute, really.


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## Waywyn (May 9, 2005)

ya know, the thing which bugs me even more is that all those people having gpo think they have some high quality and somewhat high class sample instrument like vsl, ewql or si but just cheaper.

so they think the rage or anger is coming from us by just making gpo down.

but i remember it all started by the gpo peps who felt attacked if somebody said something like, okay gpo is good but, hey...it is not high class professional software ...

surely there are some hobbytalents out there who know maybe even more than i do, but those are a minority and wouldnt certainly attack other peoples opinion.

i remember there was one post at NS who was about "fighting in the honor of GPO", the thread the guy posted sounded like he would go into (flaming)war to defend gpo in all honor...

this is laughable and shows again how stupid some people are..


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## choc0thrax (May 9, 2005)

Hey where did Lincoln's post go?


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 9, 2005)

I removed it. At first it made me chuckle - but I didn't want to deal with the posts that would follow.

I mean:* it's a conspiracy - my posts are disappearing - can you believe the level of intollerance - I only wanted to... FREEDOM OF etc, etc!!!*


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## choc0thrax (May 9, 2005)

Simon apparently you are scottnorma on NS?


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## Scott Rogers (May 9, 2005)

..........


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## Scott Rogers (May 9, 2005)

..........


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## Marsdy (May 9, 2005)

Scott Rogers said:


> choc0thrax said:
> 
> 
> > Simon apparently you are scottnorma on NS?
> ...



Is Bela D the guy that did the singing cat library?


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## Simon Ravn (May 9, 2005)

I read it :D


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## Simon Ravn (May 9, 2005)

Marsdy said:


> Scott Rogers said:
> 
> 
> > choc0thrax said:
> ...



Is Bela D the guy that did12201585684418de7bca015.jpg < @÷ú zú  ’ t›#G4f1463ed 150825718746cf6c097bf90.jpg


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## choc0thrax (May 9, 2005)

Hmm apparently he's not calling you Simon but is talking to Simon who isn't even a part of the thread over there.


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## SMOKE (May 9, 2005)

if you read - it looks like Simon insluted bela first and bela was "returning" the love - but I guees you guys look past that.

I guess posting a picture of headphones on a product demo isnt an insult. Come on guys - take off the blinders


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## Simon Ravn (May 9, 2005)

SMOKE said:


> if you read - it looks like Simon insluted bela first and bela was "returning" the love - but I guees you guys look past that.
> 
> I guess posting a picture of headphones on a product demo isnt an insult. Come on guys - take off the blinders



I criticised his DIVA library on several occasions. That, as a professional developer, is something you have to deal with. Francis is clearly not up to the task of separating his personal feelings from his professional career as a developer. I felt compelled to warn people about the TURKEY that DIVA is. He later went on and accused me of hacking. Maybe I should sue him? That's what you do in the US, isn't it? :D

Bottom line is, you can't post criticism about a paying customer's product at NS without being either censored or banned. So calling the forum a discussion forum is a bit farfetched.


----------



## SMOKE (May 9, 2005)

Well Simon, maybe you are wrong about your criticism. I own DIVA and love it. It's also all over the the place. I hear on TV all the time. Bela D just another 200 in a GB. I think they win


----------



## choc0thrax (May 9, 2005)

They win what?


----------



## Simon Ravn (May 9, 2005)

SMOKE said:


> Well Simon, maybe you are wrong about your criticism. I own DIVA and love it. It's also all over the the place. I hear on TV all the time. Bela D just another 200 in a GB. I think they win



It sounds horrible. There's a lot of bad stuff being used and bought by plenty of composers. And lots of bad composers composing for TV/films/games/you name it. That is not an argument. Either way, I'm entitled to my criticism.


----------



## choc0thrax (May 9, 2005)

Speaking of bad music for games has anyone ever gone to www.gametrailers.com ? Lots of Diva and very bad use of EWQLSO going on there. *shudders.


----------



## José Herring (May 9, 2005)

SMOKE said:


> if you read - it looks like Simon insluted bela first and bela was "returning" the love - but I guees you guys look past that.
> 
> I guess posting a picture of headphones on a product demo isnt an insult. Come on guys - take off the blinders



Bella? Francis? is that you?


----------



## SMOKE (May 9, 2005)

josejherring said:


> Bella? Francis? is that you?



nope.
just a user.... 

I can only think of one reason why anyone wouldn't like a female voice.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (May 9, 2005)

Smoke,

I'll give you one reason: if it's bad. I've yet to hear a single voice virtual instrument that is not bad. Sorry. It's just like virtual sax, IMHO. We just can't fool our ears with sounds that are in those formant/frequency ranges. We are programmed to be particularly sensitive to human (and human-like) sounds.

Do you like bad food, bad drinks, bad sleeps, bad trips, bad samples, bad relationships? Did ,http://www.decamusic.com/images/portrait.gif     @ÿú@{ / ö ¡-&G5ac87533


----------



## Ed (May 9, 2005)

Lincoln Flesch said:


> Of course they delete it - just because it isn't being posted by Doug or Nick do you know how easy it is to have someone post something for you? It looks 'unofficial' but half the developers write it for people and give them an NFR to post a thread. Its like free advertising.
> 
> That's why those threads get removed - sure there may be 1 out of every 10 that was some innocent guy that didn't knwo any better and the admins I'm sure always explain it to them in a PM - but the other 9 are getting an NFR for their "work" posting whatever the developers tell them to.



Right, so you arent allowed to talk about any sample library unless the developers paid the forum for the privilege. Despite the fact that they market themselves as a sample based discussion forum. 

So lets say that was true for every forum including this one.

Would you be cool with that? You think thats a honest way to conduct a forum like theirs? Ignore any idea you have about "its their forum they can do what they like" because its true, but is it right?

Ed


----------



## jc5 (May 9, 2005)

dcoscina said:


> On a different note, back to the GPO thing, I believe Gary should have offered a group buy on his strings or something. GPO is already cheap and the numbers required to get the thing to move down to $140 is ridiculous. Absolutely. I'm curious as to what demographic he's trying to appeal to. Students? Amateurs?



That is the true tradgedy in this - a Garritan hosted group buy really should have been for GOS and not GPO... I doubt we'll see a GOS group buy now...


----------



## Lincoln Flesch (May 9, 2005)

But its not true of every forum. That's the point - you have choice. Some sites are more free than others - KVR is anything goes and because of it very few group buys are as successful as the ones at NS. THeir approach is one at a time and that works for them. I'm sure EW could have done their Platinum GB if they would have just waited instead of trying to overshadow/stop the Bela D/GPO GBs with theirs. But they didn't wait and they had to live with the recourse.

Whether its right or not? This isn't Moral Court and I can't judge that. I like it just fine only having one or two a month to focus on - better than trying to wade thru a sea of group buys in which I might miss one or two that I really wanted to take poart in cause they are all at the same time and my income sucks.


----------



## Ed (May 9, 2005)

Lincoln Flesch said:


> But its not true of every forum. That's the point - you have choice. Some sites are more free than others - KVR is anything goes and because of it very few group buys are as successful as the ones at NS. THeir approach is one at a time and that works for them. I'm sure EW could have done their Platinum GB if they would have just waited instead of trying to overshadow/stop the Bela D/GPO GBs with theirs. But they didn't wait and they had to live with the recourse.



I know it isnt like that in every forum, thats the point. 
If it was, no one would like it much, which is why people dont like what NS has turned into.

I started posting there in 2002, and it used to be a nice light hearted place much like this is. Guys like King, Thomas, Maarten and Simon used to post all the time. There are only a few really knowledgeable regulars left now the developers have taken it over and its become motivated by money only. Bruce R is really the only one left, but he is just an internet addict, and I believe, cant help himself. :D 



> Whether its right or not? This isn't Moral Court and I can't judge that. I like it just fine only having one or two a month to focus on - better than trying to wade thru a sea of group buys in which I might miss one or two that I really wanted to take poart in cause they are all at the same time and my income sucks .



What it comes down to is that NS does describe itself as a great place to discuss sample libraries, but what they dont tell you is you can only talk about ones when the developers have paid them. I mean why have a section entitled "sample library discussion" when its only certian samples you can talk about? That to me, is deceptive.

Ed


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 9, 2005)

Good night all, sleep well.


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## choc0thrax (May 9, 2005)

*Kisses Realdoll and turns off the lights.


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## Hans Adamson (May 9, 2005)

OK, 400 to choko!


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## choc0thrax (May 9, 2005)

There have been many a time when I couldn't decide wether to buy some sample libraries or save up for "Charlie".


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## Waywyn (May 10, 2005)

ya know, all assumings and thinking ... the maybes and possibilities, the ifs and the whens ...

leave all beside and just look how NS treats their members. you get banned if you givin critics and you got banned if you don't lick a paid devs a$$ ... that's a fact.

i also had a big laugh about belas open letter to NS, but later on he started to attack scottnorma, a member of NS personally !! therefore he should have been banned for that because it is made clear in the rules.

but there is no single rule which allowes the devs to attack forum member, or is there somehwere ? maybe hidden and written in white letters on a white background?


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## Marsdy (May 10, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> There have been many a time when I couldn't decide wether to buy some sample libraries or save up for "Charlie".



Is it me or does Charlie look a bit like Sharmy? And why are there no fat ones..... doh!!


----------



## Craig Sharmat (May 10, 2005)

i'll be staying clear of Choco if that's the case.


----------



## Scott Cairns (May 10, 2005)

Wow, I was away for one week and look what I missed! :shock: :lol:


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 10, 2005)

Choc0,

How did you know about my RealDoll? Is that webcam you gave me for Christmas routing the signal to you as well? :oops:


----------



## choc0thrax (May 10, 2005)

Of course, why else would I give you a webcam. It is truly sad that there are no fat ones but i've been thinking...if you were to take two Realdolls and put them on top of each other and leave them in the sun for a long time would they melt together? Then you'd have a nice fat deformed blob for your pleasure.


----------



## Ed (May 10, 2005)

Scott Cairns said:


> Wow, I was away for one week and look what I missed! :shock: :lol:



Yes but look at your new pic!


----------



## choc0thrax (May 10, 2005)

Well maybe I could hang around outside the factory where they make the Realdolls and wait for them to throw out defective torsos and legs. Melt it all together over a garbage fire and i'm done.


----------



## Marsdy (May 10, 2005)

Jeez... What is up with that NS guy? :roll: 

First the strangled cat library guy's thread gets closed and because he pays Papa the Hutt money, (allegedly,) he doesn't get banned even though he breaks forum rules. Then the thread gets opened again a people justifiably ask WTF is going on. Now it has completely disappeared off the face of the earth. EDIT: I stand corrected it is still there apparently but I can't see an off topic forum.

"Something is a foot and it smells." Well he got that bit right in what was a rare moment of semi-coherence.

I'd ignore all these bizarre acts of moderation and NS in general if it wasn't all so entertaining. I was wrong, the chap isn't a moron, he's certifiably insane.

I find it rather sad that what was once such a healthy and useful forum has ended up like this.


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 10, 2005)

It's now in the off topic section - PaPa posted twice that it would be moved there before it was actually moved.


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## Waywyn (May 10, 2005)

uhm, pardon ? i don'treally see an offtopic section.

maybe when i was banned he exclusively superbanned me from the offtopic section also.

mr. papachalk is really the best joke ever. he is all the time "forcing" to the rules and then this stupid bela donna is breaking them in nearly every post. i would like to see him banned! 

madhouse!


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 10, 2005)

You can only see the Off Topic section when you are logged in. If you are banned I assume it would be impossible for you to view it. Why its the only section that you need to be logged in to see I don't know. But I would assume there are many hidden sections that one must be of a certain importance/clearance to see.


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## José Herring (May 10, 2005)

Lincoln Flesch said:


> ... But I would assume there are many hidden sections that one must be of a certain importance/clearance to see.



:o You didn't know about the secret section where after 500 posts you get your very own realdoll.


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## choc0thrax (May 10, 2005)

I had over 500 posts at NS and I never saw that section. :(


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## Hardy Heern (May 10, 2005)

Just to be a little fair here, I don't think that anyone can say that GPO isn't a _*fantastic *_library for the group buy price of $140 and even the normal $200 price (in the USA)

The problem is that most folk here already have much more expensive libraries, as far as I can see, so there would be little point. However, a lot of people reckon it's great for quick sketching and for some types of 'classical' of music as opposed to some types of 'film' music. 

When it first came out it was a complete price/ performance breakthrough for a lot of us. There really was nothing to compare to it when it was released.

Frank


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## Evan Gamble (May 10, 2005)

Waywyn said:


> uhm, pardon ? i don'treally see an offtopic section.
> 
> maybe when i was banned he exclusively superbanned me from the offtopic section also.
> 
> ...



Your IP address didnt get banned?


----------



## Doug Rogers (May 10, 2005)

Lincoln Flesch said:


> They weren't allowed to post anything about their group buy per NS's rules, correct. They have to obey those rules they agreed to when they decided to rent a spot at NS.



Are you sure you're not Mark Simon (PaPa Chalk) in disguise? You seem to know a lot about this.

FYI, there was no such rule when we joined NS.

- Doug


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## Doug Rogers (May 10, 2005)

Lincoln Flesch said:


> Of course they delete it - just because it isn't being posted by Doug or Nick do you know how easy it is to have someone post something for you? It looks 'unofficial' but half the developers write it for people and give them an NFR to post a thread. Its like free advertising.
> 
> That's why those threads get removed - sure there may be 1 out of every 10 that was some innocent guy that didn't knwo any better and the admins I'm sure always explain it to them in a PM - but the other 9 are getting an NFR for their "work" posting whatever the developers tell them to.



We have NEVER given anyone anything to write something on our behalf - PaPa.

- Doug


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## Doug Rogers (May 10, 2005)

Lincoln Flesch said:


> Their approach is one at a time and that works for them. I'm sure EW could have done their Platinum GB if they would have just waited instead of trying to overshadow/stop the Bela D/GPO GBs with theirs. But they didn't wait and they had to live with the recourse.



Another false statement - NS hadn't had a group buy for months and no one was waiting. We had the next scheduled group buy for platinum but Mr. Greedy wanted between $90 (if it reached it's maximum discount) to $225 "per copy" just for hosting it. That would have cost us over $30,000 based on how many we eventually sold at the lowest price! Then, because we told him we would take it elsewhere if he was going to extort us like that, they introduced the new "group buy" rule to muzzle us. Exit, stage left! 

Anyway, they did us a favor, the platinum group buy at the EW forum was as successful financially as the gold group buy at NS, which was surprising considering our forum was launched at the same time as the platinum group buy.

Now, like many of you, we have been banned from posting at NS - Apparently they don't like the concept of us challenging their lies!!

Anyway, this is a great forum (thanks to Frederick) with many familiar members, and with freedom of speech!

- Doug


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## Scott Rogers (May 10, 2005)

..........


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 10, 2005)

Doug Rogers said:


> Are you sure you're not Mark Simon (PaPa Chalk) in disguise? You seem to know a lot about this.
> 
> FYI, there was no such rule when we joined NS.
> 
> - Doug



I am not Mark, I actually use punctuation and proper spacing in my posts. :wink: (just kidding PaPa)

I know alot about alot. What else would you like to discuss? Or maybe we should take this to the SO forums and show all your sheeple just how fast you guys are to ban when misinformation and ignorance run rampant?

Either way - I think I'm done with this thread - we've all had our fun and the bumps must be driving Gary's Group Buy thru the roof.


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## Doug Rogers (May 10, 2005)

Lincoln Flesch said:


> Doug Rogers said:
> 
> 
> > Are you sure you're not Mark Simon (PaPa Chalk) in disguise? You seem to know a lot about this.
> ...



Sure PaPa, for your information not one person has been banned at soundsonline-forums unlike Putin's Russia (NS). 

"I know alot about alot" is proper spacing?? Where, in the outskirts of Ohio!!

- Doug


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 10, 2005)

Doug, as I stated previously, I'm done with this thread, please see your PMs.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 10, 2005)

Dear Lincoln,

I thought I'd take this opportunity to tell you that I just banned myself from NS. I used to visit very, very regularly, but now, I think you have gone off the deep end ($$$ greed can do that). I didn't even bother posting a goodbye on NS, as I figured it would be deleted anyways. You remind of Bush, the way he can never, ever accept any blame whatsoever. Very small, very small.

NS will grow, no doubt about it, but I've always prefered quality to quantity. I'll take 300 VI members instead of 30,000 NS members (or whatever) any day. I hope you don't make too much money off the backs of our past quality postings.


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## Evan Gamble (May 10, 2005)

I think what Really pissed off Papa is that I posted that East West Did fine without NS selling over 300 copies of a $1200 piece of software. :D 

Congrats to Doug by the way


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## Lincoln Flesch (May 10, 2005)

Hey Ned, check your PMs.


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## synergy543 (May 10, 2005)

Mr. *Lincoln "Flesch"* appears to be someone else in the real flesh....

His music is hosted on a site called "Lastlibs.com". Ring a bell?

If not, have a look here at Lastlibs.com own signature:
http://www.soniccontrol.com/cgi-bin/ubb ... 4;t=000530

*Alan Lastufka* | www.BelaDMedia.com
Producer & Project Consultant

Well Doug, you were close....very close.

Mr. Lastufka, your behavior goes beyond "playful" and you've been deceitfully representing yourself and lying to VI Control members and should be ashamed of yourself. I am a customer of your company's products and was a proud owner until... the last few days when the true colors of your company gang are starting to look pretty disgraceful.

BelaD makes some fine products in my opinion and its too bad you feel it necessary to attempt to disguise yourself and take untasteful pot shots at both individuals and other developers with such a deceitfully cocky and arrogant attitude.

Certainly you are not responsible for your employers antics but your own behaviour does not add much value or credibility to your own reputation nor that of your company. Your dishonesty makes a mockery of the name "Lincoln".

A sad BelaDMedia customer,

Gregory D. Moore

Maybe I should call customer support and complain? :cry:


----------



## Aaron Sapp (May 10, 2005)




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## Alan Lastufka (May 10, 2005)

Well, calling tech support you'd only get me anyway - but I'd love to talk if you have some time. But maybe tomorrow - its getting late here.

Well - it took long enough and the cover has been blown. But for the record:

1. I _never_ lied. Everything is as far as I know the truth. If others have tainted the story before presenting it to me I certainly can't be held accountable for that.

2.* I never decieved. *The admins of VI knew Link was me from Day #1 and has never _ever_ had a problem with me using him to post. The dilemma is that as someone in the business you are expected not to post personal stuff too. Well, too bad. I wanted to have opinions outside of my job and official title. So Link was born. It allowed me to post as a normal user, just like you or anyone else.

3. This isn't the first, nor the last time people have used aliases - there are well known developers (whom I will not name) who have carried on entire three and four person conversations WITH THEMSELVES, all differrent aliases, to boost their products. I don't use Link for that - I use him to strip off the Bela D name and be a regular user again. I hope you can understand that.

I will appologize if anyone feels "deceited" or "unable to go on living" knowing that I am Link. But the truth remains: I have not lied, VI admins knew all along I was Link (and it was free for any moderator to do a IP check) and it doesn't change anything of what Link said.

Don't judge Bela D based on me - I was simply looking for an outlet to post as a user - Frank didn't know I was Link. 

I hope that clears everything up - any questions, just ask.


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## José Herring (May 10, 2005)

And the plot thickens as all the sordid little attempts to conceal aliases gets revealed.

Stay tuned for tomorrow when Sharmy reveals to us all the he's really Scott Cairns pretending to post from Austrialia while living in LA :shock: .

Jose


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## chickeneps (May 10, 2005)

I didn't see any potshots that Alan - I mean Link - made. If there was anything negative it seemed to be constructive criticism and opinion, which should be the "default setting" here I suppose.

All secrets eventually get uncovered... =)


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## Alan Lastufka (May 10, 2005)

chickeneps said:


> I didn't see any potshots that Alan - I mean Link - made. If there was anything negative it seemed to be constructive criticism and opinion, which should be the "default setting" here I suppose.
> 
> All secrets eventually get uncovered... =)



Thanks Garth. Goodnight everyone, stay healthy and have fun.


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## synergy543 (May 10, 2005)

Chickeneps wrote:
*I didn't see any potshots that Alan - I mean Link - made. If there was anything negative it seemed to be constructive criticism and opinion, which should be the "default setting" here I suppose.*

In "honest" Link's own words:



Lincoln Flesch said:


> I removed it. At first it made me chuckle - but I didn't want to deal with the posts that would follow.
> 
> I mean: it's a conspiracy - my posts are disappearing - can you believe the level of intollerance - I only wanted to... FREEDOM OF etc, etc!!!
> _________________
> - Link F.



Chickeneps wrote:
*All secrets eventually get uncovered... =)*

Yeah, I've got a nice one for you too...but I won't reveal it publicly for the sake of our mutual friend. 
E-mail me if you really want to know....but you already do...so we'll keep it burried. But hey, maybe you'll send me an NFR like Lincoln says? :wink:


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## chickeneps (May 11, 2005)

I should of said "in context" or "most of the time".

Given 20 posts and one of them says something a little "red", I'll just read the other 19.


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## synergy543 (May 11, 2005)

Alan Lastufka said:


> Goodnight everyone, stay healthy and have fun.


Linc,

If Choco really sent you that Real Doll, I'd be careful.... You got to watch out for that Choco guy...he's officially our "Resident Hobo Apprentice"....he was talking about retrieveing torsos and limbs from the garbage bins....and besides....... I'm sure its "really used". :lol:


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## Waywyn (May 11, 2005)

Hardy Heern said:


> Just to be a little fair here, I don't think that anyone can say that GPO isn't a _*fantastic *_library for the group buy price of $140 and even the normal $200 price (in the USA)
> 
> The problem is that most folk here already have much more expensive libraries, as far as I can see, so there would be little point. However, a lot of people reckon it's great for quick sketching and for some types of 'classical' of music as opposed to some types of 'film' music.
> 
> ...



frank, with all kinds of respect and don't see that post personal against you, but gpo compared to some other libraries like gold, vsl or si does really sound bad and is not usable for really professional work, like you already kinda mentioned.

i had a listen to your recent piece on NS and it was composed okay with a few things here and there but the sound was so thin compared to other libs etc. especially compared to gold, (like mr. garritan always compares gpo to gold because gpo has more articulations).

i didn't see one single critic on your piece, nothing. even garritan said that it was awesome and excellent. sorry, frank, again with all respect, but on a forum with pros and on the "best composers" community i got more useful critics and comments a few years ago. today on NS nobody dares anymore to compare instruments or how to compose because everybody is living in fear to get banned or hitted by the big censors. (it is like in the US today as we could see on "bowling for columbine")


i also could create a library which has like 1000 of articulations more than gpo, but that doesn't makes it a better sounding library.
again, gold may not be everyones taste too, but you can't compare like 1 second loops from gpo to other libs.


like i once said on the garritan section on NS (therefore i got banned a long time ago on the garritan forum): i don't own gpo and it is really a cool tool to do layouts and sketches and whatever, but (i even didn't add this following sentence on the gpo forum) if it comes to real composing and professional work, there is no use for gpo.

i know no pro who is using gpo as a fulll library. probably like a few instruments of it here and there but as a full library? sorry!
i wouldn't even take it if somebody would gift it to me.

howevery this is just a personal opinion and again, i don't go against you, frank, i am just talking about the lib.

the problem is everybody having on NS in the garritan section is, that every composition, even if it would be stuff with just 2 or 4 tracks made with a few single instruments and maybe some wrong notes in it would be an "amazing and outstanding" composition.

you know what? this is just no helping each other. this is to just write something and to the composer feel better.

i can divide the "sounds great" posts from real critics. these "sounds great" posts mean nothing else than just "yeah, whatever cool, i like it but i don't like to think about anymore on this nor make some efforts to critisize anything, but anyway i have one more post and i wrote somthing."

if you want real helpful, friendly and USEFUL critics, comments or whatever, stay here and go to the user section and post your stuff here (like you maybe did already) .... but i am definitely sure, there is a difference in the comments ...


----------



## Waywyn (May 11, 2005)

evan gamble said:


> Waywyn said:
> 
> 
> > uhm, pardon ? i don'treally see an offtopic section.
> ...



apparently not  i can still read the crap which is going on there and it makes me laugh more and more how chalkieboy reacts to the users and how "EQUAL" people are on this forum. the banning just opened my eyes ... if he would treat everyone equal there he would have banned bela after the second or third accusation against scottnorma in his "open letter" (i can't say that enough)


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## dcoscina (May 11, 2005)

I think we, as open minded, evolved V.I. forum posters, can forgive Alan for his posting under a pseudonym. I can understand why he would want to use an alias- just as he described, for the purpose of discussion things without the bias against him because of his developer ties. And I found his posts pretty innocuous to be honest. Most seemed rational. 

And, as a free thinking person, and after reading his views on NSS, and Doug Rogers' and Nick Phoenix's, I still side with East West on this particular matter. And I'm not speaking out of spite or animosity towards NSS because I got banned- I must point out that I ASKED PapaChalk to remove me from that site. 

And, for the record, PapaChalk was never rude or abusive in his correspondences. Just matter-of-fact. I honestly believe that he's a little over-reactive about banning other members though. I'm not sure if he's a little intoxicated with the power he wields, or is simply overzealous. I cannot make any flat proclaimations since I don't know the man.

One thing I do dislike is how some developers are incredibly over-sensitive so criticism of their products. For the record, I find GPO to be quite poor sounding. I have heard every single demo on the website and I haven't heard one that doesn't scream "cheese". And I'm not insulting the musical content. some pieces would be beautiful if played by a real orchestra or a better sample orchestral library. But GPO is just not good. I got excited when they announced the "aggressive" samples- only to find that my EWQLSO Silver brass still sounded better! Comparing GPO to Gold is just plain wrong. There is a bloody huge chasm of a difference between the two libraries. 

Getting back to the criticism thing. I know some posters have accused me of endorsing East West products throughout different boards on the web because I'm getting free products from Doug. This is NOT true. I have paid for every single library that I currently use. The reason why I say good things about EWQLSO is because I enjoy using it and it sounds pretty darn good. And I must point out that, right after getting Gold, I was very vocal about my disappointment. I originally didn't think it sounded that much better than Silver. And I even posted a comparison piece using VSL on one version and Gold one the other. And the Gold version wasn't flattering. I even had the gall to post it on the Gold Group Buy thread at NSS. And did Doug or Nick ban me? NO. Did they delete my post? NO. I think Doug said something like "this really isn't the thread for this" or something really benign like that. And I apologized when I realised I'd made a bad judgement.

As developers, I have found East West to be very open-minded and willing to entertain all viewpoints, good and bad, about their products. Hence, I have a lot of respect for them.


----------



## Marsdy (May 11, 2005)

Well I wouldn't say I was particularly evolved but I still think Alan's a really nice bloke even though I don't agree with him hiding behind a pseudonym.


----------



## Frederick Russ (May 11, 2005)

I've had some private chats with Alan and you're right, he is a cool guy and always welcome to be part of VI. That goes for Aaron Dirk, who I was behind the Bela guitar lib and a talented musician as well (he played me Rachmaninoff's Symphony No. 2 on piano - he's good.) Frank is also welcome to be here as well as far as I'm concerned. 

Because VI isn't first motivated by money it's become a place where we can discuss samples and vi instruments honestly and its really nothing personal against anyone. People are entitled to their opinion about the samples available - and people are entitled to disagree. That's what a forum is for :!: 

VI's motto is musicians helping musicians. If we cannot be honest with one another then its a little difficult to help one another, you know? Bruised feelings aside, I think we have a great and talented group of people here - developers and musicians alike - and having a place to hang your hat and call home is nice (since some of us were ousted from other communities and became like forum hobos.)

Thanks everyone for helping make VI a cool community 8)


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## Ed (May 11, 2005)

josejherring said:


> And the plot thickens as all the sordid little attempts to conceal aliases gets revealed.
> 
> Stay tuned for tomorrow when Sharmy reveals to us all the he's really Scott Cairns pretending to post from Austrialia while living in LA :shock: .
> 
> Jose



And I am, in fact, Thomas J and Maarten.

Simon is my alias when Im feeling cheeky.

Ed


----------



## Ed (May 11, 2005)

Marsdy said:


> Well I wouldn't say I was particularly evolved but I still think Alan's a really nice bloke even though I don't agree with him hiding behind a pseudonym.



I like Alan too, from what Ive seen :D. It was strange though talking to "Link" as I thought he agreed with us

Ed


----------



## Ed (May 11, 2005)

dcoscina said:


> But GPO is just not good. I got excited when they announced the "aggressive" samples- only to find that my EWQLSO Silver brass still sounded better! Comparing GPO to Gold is just plain wrong. There is a bloody huge chasm of a difference between the two libraries. .



Yea I agree. Comparing it to Gold is pretty silly. Having said that I dont think its quite as bad as some people make out. Certian string demos have held their own with other libaries quite well I felt. Now this is probable down to the demo makers. Anyone can make even the best libraries sound like total crap. I myself am very capable of doing so.  The point is that the reason why so many GPO demos sound bad is because so many inexperienced people are using the library, whereas with Gold many more semi-professional and professionals use it and those that understand how to do a good midi mockup. Clearly GPO and Gold arent really comparable, however for this reason I think GPO isnt quite as bad as all that. 

And to be fair to GPO, it is a *great *tool for someone that cant afford to buy any more libraries and I would reccomend it to someone in that situation. You do after all get a lot of support, and free stuff. Though it is a little silly when some of its users think they have managed to get thousands of dollars worth of software for a few hundred.

Ed


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## zion15 (May 11, 2005)

it's kind of sad to see this kind of greediness and stupidity going on... not having been a NS regular i didn't know about these events until today.

i was actually thinking of joining the GPO group buy just to get something to sketch compositions on with my meager laptop setup - be GPO a "toy" or not, i can't even dream of running something bigger and fully-fledged like EWQLSO gold on it - but seeing the situation "behind the scenes" i'll have to pass.


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## synergy543 (May 11, 2005)

Just for the record, I have no hard feeling against Alan either. So if it seemed like I was trying to chastise him, I'm not that kind of guy. Maybe I was indulging in a little sadastic American mean-spiritedness with my new discovery - if so I'm sorry. I think Alan has a lot to share about music and BelaD is doing some exciting work.

No hard feeling mate.

Welcome aboard Alan!


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## Hardy Heern (May 11, 2005)

Waywyn said:


> Hardy Heern said:
> 
> 
> > Just to be a little fair here, I don't think that anyone can say that GPO isn't a _*fantastic *_library for the group buy price of $140 and even the normal $200 price (in the USA)
> ...



frank, with all kinds of respect and don't see that post personal against you, but gpo compared to some other libraries like gold, vsl or si does really sound bad and is not usable for really professional work, like you already kinda mentioned.

i had a listen to your recent piece on NS and it was composed okay with a few things here and there but the sound was so thin compared to other libs etc. especially compared to gold, (like mr. garritan always compares gpo to gold because gpo has more articulations).

i didn't see one single critic on your piece, nothing. even garritan said that it was awesome and excellent. sorry, frank, again with all respect, but on a forum with pros and on the "best composers" community i got more useful critics and comments a few years ago. today on NS nobody dares anymore to compare instruments or how to compose because everybody is living in fear to get banned or hitted by the big censors. (it is like in the US today as we could see on "bowling for columbine")


i also could create a library which has like 1000 of articulations more than gpo, but that doesn't makes it a better sounding library.
again, gold may not be everyones taste too, but you can't compare like 1 second loops from gpo to other libs.


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## José Herring (May 11, 2005)

We do get hot headed from time to time, but from what I know of Alan he's a good guy. He too can get hot headed from time to time. But, he's doing what we all do. You got to believe in what you're doing in order to convince others that you know what you're doing. If he or any of us weren't tempermantal beast from time to time when people criticize our work we wouldn't be musicians we'd be mild mannered office employees chugging away until retirement.

Let's not forget that anybody is welcome here.

Jose


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## Evan Gamble (May 11, 2005)

*Raise your Glasses!*

I this time I but a round of beers at the VI bar! 8)


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## Waywyn (May 11, 2005)

Hardy Heern said:


> Waywyn said:
> 
> 
> > Hardy Heern said:
> ...



oh my god!!! i maybe was so tired that i thought you are the poster of the composition "return of the heroes".
wow, now i am really small :oops: 

i just confused you with John Hawksleywww.splitoctave.com/images_folder/SO_avatar.gif [email protected]þú‡ƒm  +  M²GG46518ece   [email protected]öúˆƒm  H žÓGG458c8e36 18400164404592a88ab8e67.jpg [email protected]öú‰ƒ½ / ŠéGG525d50c0 1826751054473e1e097bac0.jpg [email protected]þúŠƒÇ   a ”îGG55b55541   < @÷ú


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## Doug Rogers (May 11, 2005)

Hardy Heern said:


> Gary is very protective of his business as is Doug of SOL (but wouldn't we all?).....I've had posts deleted and or edited by both without explanation......it is really irritating to say the least.
> 
> Frank



Hmmm.... which post was that Frank? I don't recall editing or deleting any of your posts.

- Doug


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## KingIdiot (May 11, 2005)

Alan, you have balls

thats a compliment

I bet some people wouldnt really care if YOU used an alias to voice your opinion.

Me on the other hand, well we know how that story would go.

as for the crap going on, this is god damn highschool antics, all hidden behind the guise of professionalism.

Just let the fucking thing go. We're all better off for it.

I havent been around much because of some major life issues that have been going on this past month and a half, but reading this is proves that the internet while extremely convenient, is one of the worst forms of communication ever on a personal level.

I think both VI and NS have done amazing things, some of the people posting have issues, and really need to stop all the damn dissent (both camps). I think most of whats going on is miscommunication and the lack of direct contact and discussion. Lots of behind the scenes bickering and name calling, that builds up outside of whats seen on the public forums, and fuels more problems over all, when anything is said publically

The whole "band together/family" aspect is very skewed. There is really none of that, its a buisness to some of the people in these groups, developers included.

I'm proud to be a red headed step child to just about all developers, it means I've probably voiced my opinion and only that aloud, and yah, I've irritated Doug and Nick too, by posting publically, so dont think I'm some east/west chocolate fed baby.

I used to look at the whole music making community as a family. Whether it was NS, VSPLanet, theory groups, tech mail listings....

I'm sorry to say that it doesnt feel that way anymore. Both due to developers and users alike. I think we all need to check ourselves.

Anyway,

In the end, I think most people need ot get over themselves. I can be a moron and I know it, but I also know that most other people can be too. Atleast I'll admit to it. I'm glad to know the other few that do too.


(BTW, I've never used an Alias other than KingIdiot on forums. KI is handle I've used for about 8 years now. I did use Tragic Comic back in the Compuserve chat room days when I had a top of the line 386 33 mhz computer.... but well... I doubt any of you hung out in those great teen chat rooms, where I learned to spell, oh so well....like..."jsut")

while I dont post so much , I'll still try and answer PMs if you send them. If I dont, it means I just could get to it, or I did and the internet ate my super long reply and I didnt feel like typing it again (it happens alot to me)


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## KingIdiot (May 11, 2005)

oh yah....and peace man....

lets go to woodstock....

I got some killer Acid man!!!


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## Alan Lastufka (May 11, 2005)

KingIdiot said:


> Alan, you have balls
> 
> thats a compliment
> 
> ...



Won't you be at summer NAMM? That's much sooner than Woodstock. :wink: 

I thought owning up was the best thing I could do - whether that's balls or plain stupidity... eh. Good times.


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## Scott Cairns (May 11, 2005)

Man this is all TOO good. I need some popcorn.....


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## Waywyn (May 12, 2005)

i think king idiot is right,

we all know what he have, being part of this community and we all know that at least something (of all the stuff which is happening on NS) is not right.

also most or some of us had some anger and were dissapointed what was going on on NS the last days. i am not pretty sure how it will end up on NS but i can't think of something good if chalk doesn't rethink his postition as a moderator.

i also think a forum, where the moderator and some developers show emotions is definitely not serious and i don't like to be part of that community anymore. (even tho i am banned i still can read )

i really like a lot of people over there (which are not here or anywhere else) but let's just go on and waste our energy on music


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## Hardy Heern (May 12, 2005)

_
oh my god!!! i maybe was so tired that i thought you are the poster of the composition "return of the heroes".
wow, now i am really small :oops: 

i just confused you with John Hawksley on NS in the gpo demo section, but i remember you were posting on this thread.

so i was listening to that demo and i really couldnt find anything which is brilliant, big sounding or whatever.

sorry to messs you up kinda. i must have been very tired_

No probs Waywin.....I like a man who can admit to a mistake.  I ought to know, I've made hundreds in my lifetime! :( 

BTW, I really rate John Hawksley work. He doesn't only use GPO either.

Frank


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## Hardy Heern (May 12, 2005)

Doug Rogers said:


> Hardy Heern said:
> 
> 
> > Gary is very protective of his business as is Doug of SOL (but wouldn't we all?).....I've had posts deleted and or edited by both without explanation......it is really irritating to say the least.
> ...



Oh no!, it's worse than I thought!!...you are deleting them without remembering!! :D 

Seriously though, it was the one about shipping to England and various cost issues etc. within the last few weeks, couple of months. I wouldn't worry about it as I've forgiven you already!  

Cheers 

Frank


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## Doug Rogers (May 12, 2005)

Hardy Heern said:


> Doug Rogers said:
> 
> 
> > Hardy Heern said:
> ...



Wasn't me Frank, maybe the NS admin who constantly deleted posts in our forum. It probably had some reference to something we weren't allowed to talk about.

Anyway, King's right, none of this will be on our radar screens in a months time. Time to move forward.

- Doug


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## dcoscina (May 12, 2005)

Yup. In a months time, we'll all hopefully be discussing how awesome those new Qlegato patches are in the Pro upgrades for EWQLSO.

Or perhaps how freakin' amazing John Williams' score is for War of the Worlds....or James Newton Howard/Hans Zimmer's collaboration on Batman Begins!

Lots of great music to discuss!


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## Evan Gamble (May 12, 2005)

Im REALLY Curious what the batman begins score is going to sound like...as of right now, Im think Danny Elfman, with a media Ventures Phat compressed the shit out of sound..maybe?


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## choc0thrax (May 12, 2005)

Zimmer + Newton Howard = not as good as Elfman.


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## Evan Gamble (May 12, 2005)

Newton howard is better than elfman in my opinion..but with zimmer you could be right


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## choc0thrax (May 12, 2005)

James Newton Howard better than Elfman!??? I think not!


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## Aaron Sapp (May 12, 2005)

Elfman is definitely better.


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## dcoscina (May 13, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> James Newton Howard better than Elfman!??? I think not!



Both are talented composers and deciding which one is "better" is really splitting hairs. Elfman works more motivically, in short cells whereas Howard has long fluid themes. I don't think Elfman could have done a score like SIGNS or UNBREAKABLE, but by the same token, I don't think Howard could have done something like HULK or EDWARD SCISSORHANDS.

They're both top notch composers for different reasons.


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## lux (May 13, 2005)

Dunno if they fight on a wrestling ring whos better..

...but If we talk about music the word "better" become "I prefer"...
Better hasnt any sense itself.

Luca


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## IvanP (May 13, 2005)

lalalalala! :twisted:


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## Hardy Heern (May 13, 2005)

Wasn't me Frank, maybe the NS admin who constantly deleted posts in our forum. It probably had some reference to something we weren't allowed to talk about.

Anyway, King's right, none of this will be on our radar screens in a months time. Time to move forward.

- Doug[/quote]

Damn NS admin, eh! :? 

I don't agree that King's right, I like to look back the best. Recrimination, regrets....that's where all the fun is....AND we're sure of the past and NOT sure of the future. Give me the past any time, the future's a lottery!

Just my tanner's worth.  

Frank


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## choc0thrax (May 13, 2005)

dcoscina said:


> choc0thrax said:
> 
> 
> > James Newton Howard better than Elfman!??? I think not!
> ...




So they are exactly as good as each other then? What is this NS? 8) Elfman owns Howard easily. Sure Howard is very talented but just not on the same level as Elfman.


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## José Herring (May 13, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> I'm not sure if you're joking or not but if not then which scores? I'd be interested to hear something good from him.



I liked his two minute synth drones in "Dead Calm".


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## dcoscina (May 13, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> Yes it is my opinion that Elfman is much better, you don't have to get upset. 8) We all like different stuff, some people even like Philip Glass and Graeme Revell! It's a crazy world out there!



I was simply reacting to the inference that there was a qualitative difference between the two. I think they have vastly different styles. I love Elfman's HULK. For 2 weeks of crazy writing, it's pretty damn great. And you'll get no arguments out of me that Elfman's BATMAN will always be the definitive score. 

But James Newton Howard has done some exceptional scores too. Like Falling Down. THis to me is the perfect post-modernist score because it takes a bit of everything and molds it into a cohesive whole. There's synth timbres, modernist brass writing, Latin beats, martial snare rhythms. I also think The Village is a beautiful score with some exceptional violin writing.

But I know that I prefer fluid themes as opposed to short motivic statements which were the foundations of Elfman's style. Then again, he comes out with something like Edward Scissorhands which has a gorgeous main theme. I still think it's his best score. That and Nightmare Before Christmas.

I'm sorry if I suggested that you aren't entitled to your opinion. I guess I was irritated because I misinterpretted the tenor of your post as a proclamation rather than supposition.

Cheers!


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## Journeyman (May 13, 2005)

Do we know who did the new Batman movie?


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## dcoscina (May 13, 2005)

Journeyman said:


> Do we know who did the new Batman movie?



Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard...

Personally, I'm dreading this score. I cannot see how a collaboration such as this will be bear a cohesive, cogent score with consistent thematic development. But I'm on the "glass is half empty" side of the fence today.

And I'm not a huge Zimmer fan as previous posts attest.


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## Lex (May 13, 2005)

choc0thrax said:


> I'm not sure if you're joking or not but if not then which scores? I'd be interested to hear something good from him.



I like Chronicles Of Riddick and most of The Crow...

aLex


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## jc5 (May 13, 2005)

dcoscina said:


> Journeyman said:
> 
> 
> > Do we know who did the new Batman movie?
> ...



Indeed, I cannot say that things are boding well.... this film was supposed to be a rehabilitation of the franchise after the last two dragged it down into the sewers... The first two on the other hand are just about as interesting as any comic book super hero based films have ever been, in all areas. I guess we shall see.


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## choc0thrax (May 13, 2005)

Yeah The Crow is the only thing that i've heard from him that is not bad. I certainly won't be watching Chronicles Of Riddick as I hate Vin Diesel, I remember watching triple X and I and everyone was rooting for the bad guy cause Diesel sucks. The Hulk is not one of Danny's better scores if you ask me but is very good for how loncf6c097bf90.jpg ÀÿúMˆß ? ¤ IkVG43b73c8a    < @÷úNˆ,   ’ .uVG57095cc4 150825718746cf6c097bf90.jpg [email protected]öúOˆß ? F ÇzVG50f14902 198803797646ea4897e76b8.jpg   @ÿúPˆ-  / ©	 A|VG52ad302a     @ÿúQˆ-  / ö  ~VG5ac87583   [email protected]öúRˆ   F ]~VG50f14902 198803797646ea4897e76b8.jpg [email protected]þúSˆß ? ,  z~VG5512885d 


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