# Steinberg Iconica



## Vadium

New symphonic library from Steinberg released:
https://www.steinberg.net/en/produc..._lid=22&et_sub=Iconica Sections &amp; Players


----------



## lucor

And it's created in collaboration with Orchestral Tools! No wonder it sounds so surprisingly good.


----------



## Eptesicus

Quite like the fact it has two different flutes,oboes and clarinets.


----------



## paoling

I hope this will mark the resurrection of Halion.


----------



## Will Blackburn

Interesting move by Steinberg, perhaps they are looking to take on Kontakt . As a long time Cubaser it would be cool to have a complete Steinberg workflow. Cubase/Nuendo - Halion - Dorico all connected. Barely ever used Halion but like how user freindly it looks.


----------



## Heledir

It might be a bit pricey for a beginner, but I do think it would be very suited for those only just starting out but looking for a full orchestra.


----------



## ModalRealist

I really like that sound, blimey.


----------



## Fab

So...there isn't a discount for cubase / nuendo users?


----------



## Eptesicus

Fab said:


> So...there isn't a discount for cubase / nuendo users?



seemingly not....tight gits.


----------



## Saxer

You have to activate the kiss witches


----------



## muziksculp

This is a very good sounding orchestral library by Steinberg.

Teaming up with Orchestral Tools was a smart move, and they seem to have moved to the next level in orchestral library production, compared to the more (cheesy) watered down, economic stuff they used to offer in the past. This looks more like a serious orchestral library from Steinberg for a change.

The price is on the high side, but I think there is a good reason for that price (Quality).

The Halion platform is pretty capable, especially Halion 6, if further customization of the library is needed. I hope Steinberg and other third party developers consider the Halion platform for new more serious high-quality libraries in the future.


----------



## lucor

I honestly can't understand the complaints about the price. 699€ is incredibly low for such a huge collection, and of the top of my head can only be beat by EastWest's Hollywood Orchestra.

Maybe they should think about releasing the sections (Brass, Woodwinds, etc.) seperately, though.


----------



## muziksculp

lucor said:


> Maybe they should think about releasing the sections (Brass, Woodwinds, etc.) seperately, though.



Yes, that's a very good idea ! 

To make it more of a modular library, buy the module you need, this will make it more flexible, and affordable. They can keep adding more specialized modules to keep expanding it's capabilities. A Win Win Scenario.


----------



## Akarin

lucor said:


> I honestly can't understand the complaints about the price. 699€ is incredibly low for such a huge collection, and of the top of my head can only be beat by EastWest's Hollywood Orchestra.
> 
> Maybe they should think about releasing the sections (Brass, Woodwinds, etc.) seperately, though.



I'm waiting to see independent reviews to see if the quality matches the one from EWHO... those Hollywood Brass sound so good.


----------



## MA-Simon

From Steinberg...

would be very interesting if it came with an assortment of full Cubase templates!


----------



## benmrx

Wow...., this is amazing, and the price seems spot on IMO. I'm just gonna wait for some user reviews, but this is most likely my next purchase. Is this the first VST3 orchestral library......, that actually sounds good? VST note expression is kind of a big deal (of course..., IMO).


----------



## zolhof

Smart move by Steinberg and OT. I'm already covered by Kontakt and UVI to even consider another behemoth of a library like that, but that's some serious choice for anyone starting out. It's a big chunk of the market that Steinberg can easily grab with one mere bundle. Cubase+Iconica+student discount? Make it happen and you have a winner!


----------



## woodsdenis

Sounds great, definitely separate sections is the way to go, also don’t know how good Halion is outside of Cubase, had issues with it in Logic 10 and Studio One certainly.


----------



## JonSolo

Wow what a great sound.


----------



## cola2410

I'm waiting for the ensembles add-on (bottom of the Steinberg's Iconica page). If it's close to what ProjectSam or Sonokinetic did - I'm in for the mighty Opus (bundle).


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder what part of the development of Iconica was Orch. Tools responsible for ? I would guess that The actual Recordings/Sample Productions were OT, Steinberg in charge of all Halion Related implementations of the sampled data ? or maybe they collaborated in all aspects of the development ?


----------



## JonSolo

cola2410 said:


> I'm waiting for the ensembles add-on (bottom of the Steinberg's Iconica page). If it's close to what ProjectSam or Sonokinetic did - I'm in for the mighty Opus (bundle).


I wish they gave us more info... it would be great to know if there is break for early adopters if this is past 7/11 day.


----------



## cola2410

JonSolo said:


> I wish they gave us more info... it would be great to know if there is break for early adopters if this is past 7/11 day.



And just imagine if it's ALL BALANCED IN A SINGLE TEMPLATE...


----------



## Fab

Eptesicus said:


> seemingly not....tight gits.



...at least I don't have to buy Halion


---

Jokes aside, I do think this looks cool.


----------



## muziksculp

From the Youtube demo, The woodwinds sound very good ! Buy I wonder if there is any Vibrato / Vibrato-control ?


----------



## lucor

According to the Youtube descriptions there will also be a trial for Iconica, though I can't find anything on the Steinberg website yet.


----------



## Ryan

This looks promising & the sampling is very well done. Finally VST3 expression..


----------



## muziksculp

Q. If a DAW supports VST3, does that also mean it supports Note Expression ? 

i.e._ Studio One Pro 4_ Supports VST3, but I'm not sure if it supports Note Expression like Cubase. Any feedback on this ? 

Thanks.


----------



## fretti

lucor said:


> According to the Youtube descriptions there will also be a trial for Iconica, though I can't find anything on the Steinberg website yet.


That would be awesome! Really curious how it stands against Kontakt with a bigger orchestral piece... definitely won‘t pay 700€ without knowing that
(At least to see how my systems goes with that)
But also haven‘t found a link or so yet...


----------



## Saxer

Does Halion need a dongle?


----------



## sostenuto

Only have HALion Sonic 3 SE. Running Win10 Pro PC /Reaper v5.9.2. Will this run the complete offering or eventually need to add HALion6 ??


----------



## muziksculp

sostenuto said:


> Only have HALion Sonic 3 SE. Running Win10 Pro PC /Reaper v5.9.2. Will this run the complete offering or eventually need to add HALion6 ??



You don't need Halion 6.


----------



## sostenuto

muziksculp said:


> You don't need Halion 6.



Thank-you! 
Did not view YT yet …… is there any DIVISI ?

(edit) oops … sorry if that is a bad word in OT speak.


----------



## muziksculp

sostenuto said:


> Thank-you!
> Did not view YT yet …… is there any DIVISI ?



No.


----------



## Sami

I think the sounds are good, not as fancy as some of the high end offerings from other companies but altogether verry solid. I am not surprised by that though, this is Steinberg and OT we are talking about here. What I think is interesting is the workflow aspect. VST3 is a forward looking protocol (in some regards at least, apparently multichannel is a problem) and expression map support right from the box in what is arguably the technically most complete DAW (cubendo) is a very big step in the right direction. Dorico is set to support all of it as well which means they really have a couple of extremely strong offerings here for the beginner composer and for the professional who wants a streamlined workflow (honestly some things in kontakt are pissing me off more and more by the day) as well as for education and for notation program users. Bravi, Steinberg!

Edit: updates to reflect issues with vst3 as discussed below


----------



## muziksculp

Saxer said:


> Does Halion need a dongle?



I don't think so.

*Quote :*

_After entering the code in the eLicenser Control Center (which will be installed along automatically with your Steinberg software), the license will be downloaded and stored on your computer or a connected USB-eLicenser (dongle). _

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/207334490


----------



## Øivind

Hmm, there is no info if Dorico supports this out of the box. It seems like a wasted opportunity to not replace the halion symphonic orchestra with this if that is the case. Or at least have support on release.


----------



## DaddyO

oivind_rosvold said:


> Hmm, there is no info if Dorico supports this out of the box. It seems like a wasted opportunity to not replace the halion symphonic orchestra with this if that is the case. Or at least have support on release.



That is an important part. Perhaps this has been developed with Dorico support in mind. One can only hope. Dorico and NotePerformer 3 now work together after a fashion, but that cooperation is in it's infancy, one would think. Interesting to see how this all will play out.


----------



## DaddyO

I asked about Dorico support in the Dorico forum, here's the link. https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=140407&p=755567#p755567

Apparently the Dorico team is working on Iconia support, but it is not ready at this time, and Iconia is made to work with a DAW.


----------



## Øivind

Too bad, and very strange  They could have had something special here.


----------



## Sami

oivind_rosvold said:


> Too bad, and very strange  They could have had something special here.


The current Dorico Hangout discusses the issue, apparently it is on the way


----------



## alanb

Sami said:


> VST3 is a forward looking protocol



This made me laugh (cry), as I'd just been corresponding with Plugin-Alliance support over VST3's (and Cubase's) multichannel restrictions and how, if I want to squeeze anything other than 2CH Stereo and binaural headphone signals out of dearVR music/Pro, I'd have to either crossgrade to Nuendo (cost = $1,300 and the loss of my Cubase license... and access to everything I've ever done), or buy Reaper (cost =$60) and learn how to configure and use a second DAW.

I only hope that Iconica's success incites riotous crowds of Cubase-wielding cinematic classical composers and would-be composers demanding immediate Atmos compatibility.......


----------



## Sami

alanb said:


> This made me laugh (cry), as I'd just been corresponding with Plugin-Alliance support over VST3's (and Cubase's) multichannel restrictions and how, if I want to squeeze anything other than 2CH Stereo and binaural headphone signals out of dearVR music/Pro, I'd have to either crossgrade to Nuendo (cost = $1,300 and the loss of my Cubase license... and access to everything I've ever done), or buy Reaper (cost =$60) and learn how to configure and use a second DAW.
> 
> I only hope that Iconica's success incites riotous crowds of Cubase-wielding cinematic classical composers and would-be composers demanding immediate Atmos compatibility.......


I had not considered that since I only work in stereo. Didn’t know it was such a sticky situation...


----------



## Iskra

Iconica looks and sounds great, seems to have a huge amount of stuff... It's a game-changer...for Steinberg  And that is good. I can't think of a comprehensive collection close to this one in terms of quality-price: lots of articulations section by section, different players on the woodwind section, and the percussion sounds really nice (brass was the only section that left me a bit cold - except for the trombone, it sounds very natural to me). 
Sure, with a few independent reviews we'll all have more info, but so far it's really interesting.

Actually I like the fact is for Halion, it is a very capable sampler-synthesizer which is underused and undervalued, imho.


----------



## jamwerks

Great to see Steinberg develope Halion. Not sure vst3 note expression will ever really take-off though. Seems there's nothing special about Iconica with respect to expression maps that can't be done with other libraries in Cubase.

The instruments did sound good. Think I saw 18 arts for the Violins I! 

Surprised they did only one Horn!


----------



## Saxer

Great they have single woodwinds and included cor anglais, bass clarinet and contrabassoon! I wish they did that for brass too (i.e. tp2 & tp3 instead of 'section').

btw: I like the single sounds in the videos but not so much the sound of the audio demos.


----------



## MarcusD

If only importing expression maps was that easy for ANY product..

EDIT: Great sounding library for Steinberg. It would be nice to see more developers use Halion too.


----------



## jamwerks

That Gui seems to have borrowed lots from OT CAPSULE. Steiny is probably twisting Hendrick's arm to develop for Halion. 

With VSL and soon SF having their own full fledged sampler, might be good strategy for OT to team up with Steiny & Yamaha. 

Would like to hear this side by side with the OT Berlin range to compare overall sound.


----------



## MarcusD

jamwerks said:


> Would like to hear this side by side with the OT Berlin range to compare overall sound.



To me, it sounds like it sits somewhere between Inspire and the Berlin range.


----------



## Leo

woods and brass are lovely, smart move from Steinberg, and we also have trial  oh dear!


----------



## Ryan

jamwerks said:


> That Gui seems to have borrowed lots from OT CAPSULE. Steiny is probably twisting Hendrick's arm to develop for Halion.
> 
> With VSL and soon SF having their own full fledged sampler, might be good strategy for OT to team up with Steiny & Yamaha.
> 
> Would like to hear this side by side with the OT Berlin range to compare overall sound.



Actually makes sense!


----------



## sinkd

DaddyO said:


> I asked about Dorico support in the Dorico forum, here's the link. https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=140407&p=755567#p755567
> 
> Apparently the Dorico team is working on Iconia support, but it is not ready at this time, and Iconia is made to work with a DAW.


They will absolutely get this done. I am quite confident.


----------



## MrCambiata

I join the others wishing for separate sections. Really liked the woodwinds and harp...


----------



## Leo

wow it's not the end, soon coming 
Iconica Ensembles and OPUS with 200GB


----------



## Eptesicus

Saxer said:


> Great they have single woodwinds and included cor anglais, bass clarinet and contrabassoon! I wish they did that for brass too (i.e. tp2 & tp3 instead of 'section').
> 
> btw: I like the single sounds in the videos but not so much the sound of the audio demos.



Agreed. The demo tracks don't sound impressive (and by that I mean covincing).

I always think if I'm not convinced or impressed with the demos I certainly won't be when I'm using it!


----------



## Michael Antrum

I am intrigued as to how this will be 'protected'.

Currently I run some libraries on my DAW Mac, and others on a Slave 2009 Mac Pro via VEPro. If this is locked to a key it would make make things a bit awkward for a setup like that.

I've watched a couple of videos and it looks great - but I have my Orchestra now.

Does anyone know how much the normal price is, and what the re-sale policy is ? First impressions are that it is terrific value for money.


----------



## DaddyO

Has anyone found a US online retailer offering Iconica?


----------



## gordony

alanb said:


> This made me laugh (cry), as I'd just been corresponding with Plugin-Alliance support over VST3's (and Cubase's) multichannel restrictions and how, if I want to squeeze anything other than 2CH Stereo and binaural headphone signals out of dearVR music/Pro, I'd have to either crossgrade to Nuendo (cost = $1,300 and the loss of my Cubase license... and access to everything I've ever done), or buy Reaper (cost =$60) and learn how to configure and use a second DAW.
> 
> I only hope that Iconica's success incites riotous crowds of Cubase-wielding cinematic classical composers and would-be composers demanding immediate Atmos compatibility.......


I don't have Nuendo 8 but it _should_ open your Cubase projects without too many issues. There is a one month trial version of Nuendo so you could try it and see what happens.


----------



## muziksculp

mikeybabes said:


> Does anyone know how much the normal price



Intro Price *$699*. Until July 11th. Standard Price *$799 *


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I Purchased *Iconica Sections & Players*, and Look forward to to see what *Iconica Ensembles *offers*  
*
I haven't started discovering this library yet, but will do so very soon.

As far Installing the library, well.. the downloading process went pretty fast for the 150 GB of content. After Installing, I had some issues with missing sample errors, not sure why, but that got sorted out after a bit of messing around, I think Steinberg needs to further improve the install part of their Halion based Libraries.

I can use Halion 6, or Halion Sonic 3/SE to use this library. It looks like the samples are locked in Halion 6, since I see no visible samples in the keymap editor of Halion 6 for the loaded instrument. My Primary DAW is _Studio One Pro 4 _on PC.

I will post some feedback on my first impressions of Iconica once I have spent some time with it.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## sostenuto

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I Purchased *Iconica Sections & Players*, and Look forward to to see what *Iconica Ensembles *offers*
> *
> I haven't started discovering this library yet, but will do so very soon.
> 
> As far Installing the library, well.. the downloading process went pretty fast for the 150 GB of content. After Installing, I had some issues with missing sample errors, not sure why, but that got sorted out after a bit of messing around, I think Steinberg needs to further improve the install part of their Halion based Libraries.
> 
> I can use Halion 6, or Halion Sonic 3/SE to use this library. It looks like the samples are locked in Halion 6, since I see no visible samples in the keymap editor of Halion 6 for the loaded instrument. My Primary DAW is _Studio One Pro 4 _on PC.
> 
> I will post some feedback on my first impressions of Iconica once I have spent some time with it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



Looking forward .... as so many related, quality 'deals' out there right now, and some ending soon. 
Glad to see this on SAMPLE Talk for open discussion!

How the heck to sort such great stuff .... Red Room Audio _ Palette; Light and Sound_ Chamber; Symphony Series _ Collection Crossgrade; Spitfire _ Solo Strings; more ....... 

Iconica /OT connection is clear 'magnet' now. 
I remain uninformed, but is this 'lower' price mainly about switch from Kontakt5 and related costs ? Seems like content quality should remain high ....


----------



## dcoscina

DaddyO said:


> I asked about Dorico support in the Dorico forum, here's the link. https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=140407&p=755567#p755567
> 
> Apparently the Dorico team is working on Iconia support, but it is not ready at this time, and Iconia is made to work with a DAW.


Sounds great but consider the load time for an entire orchestra with all artoculations for Dorico. It could take a loooong time just to open up a full orchestra template.


Leo said:


> woods and brass are lovely, smart move from Steinberg, and we also have trial  oh dear!


have to believe they will lighten up the download with single mic or perhaps scaled down articulations. Can’t see them doing the full 150gb library


----------



## Leo

@muziksculp, I'm impatiently waiting for your review


----------



## dcoscina

Eptesicus said:


> Agreed. The demo tracks don't sound impressive (and by that I mean covincing).
> 
> I always think if I'm not convinced or impressed with the demos I certainly won't be when I'm using it!


This sounds like a very classical orchestra not film Score orchestra yet the demos seem to focus on that style
Of writing which doesn’t yield as good results as it could have. The individual videos with each choir reveal some terrific sounding samples however


----------



## sostenuto

Earlier posts leave a small '_uncertainty_' re. HALion Sonic SE 3 vs need /benefits from going up to HALion6 (on Win10 Pro PC). 
Will I get Full benefit of Iconica if staying with Sonic SE 3 .. OR .. is this a _non-issue;_ simply running VSTi /VST3 (in Reaper v5.9.2) ??

(edit) noted Iconica ships with HALion Sonic SE3, which seems to address my questions ....


----------



## sostenuto

dcoscina said:


> This sounds like a very classical orchestra not film Score orchestra yet the demos seem to focus on that style
> Of writing which doesn’t yield as good results as it could have. The individual videos with each choir reveal some terrific sounding samples however



Your comment caught my attention, as strong option before this announcement was Red Room Audio Palette _ Symphonic Sketchpad, & some Brush Packs ..... getting into the $600.+ range. 
They (RRA) speak about 'cinematic' and your observation about Iconica Demo Trks raises my interests even more ... ??


----------



## Leo

I just upgraded Steinberg download assistant and *Iconica is here*, try someone download trial yet?
Good news are that all sections are independently to download. Woods are biggest 51,93GB, strings 33,73GB, brass 44GB etc...


----------



## muziksculp

Leo said:


> I just upgraded Steinberg download assistant and *Iconica is here*, try someone download trial yet?
> Good news are that all sections are independently to download. Woods are biggest 51,93GB, strings 33,73GB, brass 44GB etc...



Yes, I noticed that the Strings was a smaller download than the Woodwinds, and Brass, I was expecting it to be larger.


----------



## dcoscina

sostenuto said:


> Your comment caught my attention, as strong option before this announcement was Red Room Audio Palette _ Symphonic Sketchpad, & some Brush Packs ..... getting into the $600.+ range.
> They (RRA) speak about 'cinematic' and your observation about Iconica Demo Trks raises my interests even more ... ??


I've gone through each of the YouTube videos and the tone and sound very much emulates more concert orchestra and not the overhyped over produced film score sound. Now don't get me wrong- I love and use those types of libraries including OT's own Ark series (fantastic quality) but their BOI and even Berlin Brass are more refined and work nicely for concert music, though I've used those sounds on film scores and game scores.....
I think this orchestra sounds quite good. I think the only thing I could note is that it would do better with someone who applies traditional arranging and orchestration practices rather than keyboard performance based composing. This library should shine when it's integrated with Dorico. I don't want to sound smug but I did predict that a big company like OT or Spitfire would at some point collaborate with Dorico to produce a custom orchestra library and I was right!


----------



## JonSolo

dcoscina said:


> I don't want to sound smug but I did predict that a big company like OT or Spitfire would at some point collaborate with Dorico to produce a custom orchestra library and I was right!


Yea, you sound smug. HA HA

Kidding aside, I agree...this sound is not the typical Hollywood sound we have heard in the past (and much of it is fantastic) from other devs. It is a bit refreshing, and I hope I can snag it before the deal is over....just like Largo, heh.


----------



## Ihnoc

Wow this one passed me by. I felt £601 is a little steep, but then I noticed the number of microphone positions (which I rarely use from other libraries). Gotta say I like the sounds here, but I really would have valued some mutes for strings and brass. Either that or some more individual brass players but I do have a selection of brass already. Having said that if I were starting out again now this is a strong starting point.

It is very tough not to be opening the wallet...


----------



## sostenuto

dcoscina said:


> I've gone through each of the YouTube videos and the tone and sound very much emulates more concert orchestra ****** I think the only thing I could note is that it would do better with someone who applies traditional arranging and orchestration practices _*rather than keyboard performance based composing.*_ This library should shine when it's integrated with Dorico.



…. heh, heh, and that's ME (keyboard performance based). These experienced _tidbits_ are really cool; and allow me to pay more attention in certain areas, for better, informed choices. 

Many thanks


----------



## CT

Leo said:


> I just upgraded Steinberg download assistant and *Iconica is here*, try someone download trial yet?
> Good news are that all sections are independently to download. Woods are biggest 51,93GB, strings 33,73GB, brass 44GB etc...



It's too bad they aren't available for purchase separately, too. All told, the price is steeper than I'd like, and while more strings would be nice, I'd rather be able to pay less for what I really need.

They would have some very strong contenders if they offered these sections individually, wouldn't they? I can't think of any other brass or woodwind options which would compete with this level of completeness and quality at what I imagine the price level would be.


----------



## Sami

Having to choose between Palette and this is like choosing which kidney to give away. In the end I went for Red Room Audio to support the smaller developer.

Then I went and bought Iconica.

Finally I preordered Spitfire Solo Strings.

Now I am thinking about which kidney to give away again...


----------



## sostenuto

Sami said:


> Having to choose between Palette and this is like choosing which kidney to give away. ***************
> Now I am thinking about which kidney to give away again...



_At my age, there are (two) other options …. a bit further south …. which may be more viable ? _


----------



## dcoscina

JonSolo said:


> Yea, you sound smug. HA HA
> 
> Kidding aside, I agree...this sound is not the typical Hollywood sound we have heard in the past (and much of it is fantastic) from other devs. It is a bit refreshing, and I hope I can snag it before the deal is over....just like Largo, heh.


Yeah I really like the sound. It's clean and I think would translate very well for orchestra mock ups, especially concert works. There are plenty of super produced orchestra libraries out there so I think it was wise of Steinberg to tap OT to produce a more classical sounding orchestra (not classical as in the era but more just the genre). 

I wonder if their demo will be the full library or a single mic scaled down deal or else just selections from the full library. I'm kind of hoping its just the single mic. I'd love to put this through its paces.


----------



## dcoscina

sostenuto said:


> …. heh, heh, and that's ME (keyboard performance based). These experienced _tidbits_ are really cool; and allow me to pay more attention in certain areas, for better, informed choices.
> 
> Many thanks


Let me re phrase this since most of us use a keyboard as entry method. I just meant adhering to a more formalized process of single line entry and then arranging subsequently would be a strength of this library. I'm not as convinced by the massive chords played but that's because ensemble patches shouldn't be played in chords....

It sounds great and I cannot wait to try out the demo...


----------



## fretti

miket said:


> They would have some very strong contenders if they offered these sections individually, wouldn't they?


Absolutely! If those woodwinds were sold separately I‘d buy them instantly. Not doing Ensembles here is really cool (and given that I don‘t want to spend 600+€ on Berlin woodwinds...).
Brass for me not so much, but it would definitely be a really strong option and opponent for Spitfire and the other big developers out there (not sure why they didn‘t do individual players there, but maybe they didn‘t want it to be a too strong contender against their „own“ Berlin Brass/Series ).


----------



## markleake

The woodwinds sound excellent! It is a shame that they don't seem to be offering it in parts. I think I'd take the woods, and maybe the brass also. I'm curious as to how many dynamic layers and RR there are though. Anyone know?


----------



## Saxer

miket said:


> They would have some very strong contenders if they offered these sections individually, wouldn't they?


They did with the woodwinds.


----------



## MarcelM

markleake said:


> The woodwinds sound excellent! It is a shame that they don't seem to be offering it in parts. I think I'd take the woods, and maybe the brass also. I'm curious as to how many dynamic layers and RR there are though. Anyone know?



https://www.steinberg.net/fileadmin/files/PRODUCTS/Sounds/VST_Sound_Instrument_Sets/Iconica_section_and_players/Downloads/Iconica_Sections___Players_Articulations.pdf

nothing about dynamic layers though :/


----------



## sostenuto

markleake said:


> The woodwinds sound excellent! It is a shame that they don't seem to be offering it in parts. I think I'd take the woods, and maybe the brass also. I'm curious as to how many dynamic layers and RR there are though. Anyone know?



I know there are many unanswered questions, this early after announcement ... but really need to choose before July 1 (NI _ Symphony Series Collection Summer promo ends).
Iconica is _additional_ $400. and I do not have the knowledge or experience to judge if it adds such obvious strengths over the older NI content (including its DIVISI). I am only asking: _given these choices, what might YOU choose_?


----------



## CT

Saxer said:


> They did with the woodwinds.



What do you mean, exactly?


----------



## markleake

sostenuto said:


> I know there are many unanswered questions, this early after announcement ... but really need to choose before July 1 (NI _ Symphony Series Collection Summer promo ends).
> Iconica is _additional_ $400. and I do not have the knowledge or experience to judge if it adds such obvious strengths over the older NI content (including its DIVISI). I am only asking: _given these choices, what might YOU choose_?


I don't think I can give you an answer there. I have looked at NI Symphony Series before, and there are some things that interest me, but I really wouldn't want it to be my main library for symphonic sounds. I think there are much better options. The woodwinds especially are very unimpressive. I am looking at it though as a supplement. Bear in mind I have plenty of other alternatives already that I think work better for me. And I've never used the the Symphony library before.

Iconica sounds a lot better, from what I've seen so far. But people are right about the demos of Iconica, they are missing the wow factor, and some actually sound pretty ordinary. The individual walk-throughs sound better.

So until I've heard more of Iconica, I can safely say neither of these libraries would be my personal first choice. How that translates to your needs and preferences... that's up to you.


----------



## sostenuto

markleake said:


> I don't think I can give you an answer there. I have looked at NI Symphony Series before, and there are some things that interest me, but I really wouldn't want it to be my main library for symphonic sounds. I think there are much better options.
> So until I've heard more of Iconica, I can safely say neither of these libraries would be my personal first choice. How that translates to your needs and preferences... that's up to you.


----------



## sostenuto

Thank-you @ markleake. 
Your assistance over time ( _and that of several others_ _here _) continues to shape my decision for adding a 'main' library. 
Since I have have several fine 'bits and pieces' now, the search will continue.

That said, the major options remain ( SFA, OT, VSL ) and are not reachable. 
It is tough, lacking necessary skills, to put separate Strings, Woods, Brass, in place to complete a quality Orchestra. 
Regards


----------



## JonSolo

sostenuto said:


> Thank-you @ markleake.
> Your assistance over time ( _and that of several others_ _here _) continues to shape my decision for adding a 'main' library.
> Since I have have several fine 'bits and pieces' now, the search will continue.
> 
> That said, the major options remain ( SFA, OT, VSL ) and are not reachable.
> It is tough, lacking necessary skills, to put separate Strings, Woods, Brass, in place to complete a quality Orchestra.
> Regards



I think pulling together a quality "main" orchestra using separate parts from different devs is a challenge for ANYBODY! That is why some go to a main library like this and then add or stack parts, or salt and pepper individual pieces in. I have several "main" libraries (HWO, SO, Inspire, etc.) that I add products from Sonokinetic, Performance Samples, Musical Sampling, etc. to fill the missing pieces, gaps, or fill the sound out.

And could be wrong, but for some to say that there is no "wow" factor here does not imply the library is weak, but just nothing notably "new to the table". With all of the libraries I have, and I have dozens upon dozens of orchestral related libraries, I would be proud to add this to the bunch. I like the way the library appears to work and plan to download and test the demo to see the workflow.

If I did not already own Berlin Woodwinds, I would buy it for the woodwinds alone. I like the intimate sound of the library as a whole and do feel this will work in an classic orchestral setting (versus theatrical or epic) quite nicely.

No one but your ears and your skills can determine which is the right fit for you. But this library does sound really good.


----------



## Ryan

This library being to much orchestral sounding is not a big deal. I think its possible to make it sound fat and cinematic. It's all about eq, mix, comp and a tad touch of reverb-tails. From what I've heard so far in the demos and YT it really got some potential.. Question is, have they re-recorded everything. Or... Have Steinberg offers OT a lot of money for their samples, to have the samples migrate to Halion sampler..


----------



## fretti

Ryan said:


> Or... Have Steinberg offers OT a lot of money for their samples, to have the samples migrate to Halion sampler..


Completely new recordings (at least they say that on their website). And also it’s not recorded in Teldex but the Funkhaus Berlin; so interesting to see how different they will actually sound (as I guess they chose at least some of the same players)


----------



## Iskra

Ryan said:


> Have Steinberg offers OT a lot of money for their samples, to have the samples migrate to Halion sampler..


A lot of money and the Delorean to get back to the past and record everything at Funkhaus instead of Teldex? 
All new samples, a month of recording at Funkhaus. No repackaging.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau

Yep, this and the Berlin/Ark series sound completely different.


----------



## muziksculp

Ryan said:


> Question is, have they re-recorded everything. Or... Have Steinberg offers OT a lot of money for their samples, to have the samples migrate to Halion sampler..



All the content of Steinberg's Iconica Library is new, non of the samples were recycled or purchased from OT. They recorded the samples in Studio 2 of the Funkhause Studios in Berlin. 

Steinberg and OT teamed up to record the samples, all are new recordings. Here is a quote from _Rekkergd.org_ website, which provided more info. about the project, and library.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From Rekkerd.org website about this library, Quote :*
_To provide this premier orchestral sample library, Steinberg approached specialist company Orchestral Tools and the collaboration came into fruition with Iconica Sections & Players. While Steinberg focused on usability and scripting through the advanced, user-friendly interface, Orchestral Tools recorded and edited over 150 GB of samples, combined with a wide range of expressions and articulations.

76 musicians were recorded in Studio 2 of the renowned Funkhaus studios in Berlin, using different microphone positions to capture every nuance of the instruments’ sound. Featuring the new Adaptive True Legato technology to ensure a realistic sound when playing legato, Iconica also provides the Tuning Scale function to tune to a number of different scales, while the VST 3 standard offers Note Expression and Expression Maps capabilities to create unique textures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_
Here is a link to the article : https://rekkerd.org/steinberg-launches-iconica-sections-players-orchestral-library/


----------



## Leo

btw Funkhause Studio sounds great - nor too wet, nor too dry (room have 1.5 sec reverberation), similar like Project Sam, what I like.


----------



## Ryan

ohh, my fault. Funkhaus Berlin and Teldex. I haven't read trough it good enough!
Promising.


----------



## Erik

[Edited] Anyone tried out different mix settings?


----------



## germancomponist

muziksculp said:


> _
> Featuring the new Adaptive True Legato technology to ensure a realistic sound when playing legato, Iconica also provides the Tuning Scale function to tune to a number of different scales, while the VST 3 standard offers Note Expression and Expression Maps capabilities to create unique textures._


_

Yeah, I like these possibilities._


----------



## jamwerks

To me, OT keeps getting better and better at the whole legato thing for solo instruments. The "cross-fading phasing" issue must not be easy to master. The BWW revamp sounds better to me than the original. I'll have to download the demo of Iconica and compare it to BWW.

I do find Berlin Brass needing some work in this respect, especially the horns. 

Granted that Iconica doesn't have the 3 distinct attack types of the Berlin range (crucial for realism imo). But if Iconica proves to sound so good, kinda hard to justify the high prices of the Berlin range.


----------



## bigcat1969

At the risk of being complete wrong, that would be a first ;P, while I love the layout / GUI, the sound doesn't seem to be at the highest level to me based on Youtube videos. Somehow the instruments sound less real to me than say Berlin though I know they are sampled by the same people. A touch synthetic.


----------



## CT

Yeah, after closer listening, there is some pretty noticeable crossfading/phasing in the woodwinds. Sigh!


----------



## sostenuto

JonSolo said:


> I think pulling together a quality "main" orchestra using separate parts from different devs is a challenge for ANYBODY! That is why some go to a main library like this and then add or stack parts, or salt and pepper individual pieces in. ****** I would be proud to add this to the bunch. I like the way the library appears to work and plan to download and test the demo to see the workflow. ****
> I like the intimate sound of the library as a whole and do feel this will work in an classic orchestral setting (versus theatrical or epic) quite nicely.



Hey @ JonSolo ..... very cool to hear your thoughts after initial audition ! 
Since focus here is Iconica, I will avoid departing much, but clear concern is imminent deadline for Crossgrading to NI _ SS Collection @ $300.
It is surely worth this very low $$ investment, but I stumble when realizing these purchases will likely be my last major additions in these specific categories. 
_BUT … $300. takes a big chunk out of Iconica Intro cost ……  _

I am impacted, _as well_, by having K11U (with it's SS-Essentials & Legacy VSL ), KH_Diamond SO (some divisi), BO_Inspire, The Orchestra, Sonokinetics (many). 

Thank-you Jon, for sharing your perspectives ! SS_Collection Crossgrade 'gas' will pass  in another day and focus will turn to Iconica. _We'll see about my 'disciplined' decision-making_.


----------



## muk

There are a few things in the walkthroughs that sound very good to my ears, and some things that sound mediocre at best. Especially the legato-patches sound troublesome to my ears. Not so much the legato-transition themselves, but the sustain parts of it. The woodwinds are strange. Is that phasing in the flute legato patch? Sounds quite strange to me. And what happened to the english horn and the contra-bassoon? Not at all an appealing sound to my ears.
The way he demonstrates the library in the walkthroughs is, maybe, not always representing the best way to use a sample library either.
All that being said it sounds like there are many very useable sounds in the package, and the programming looks clever and user friendly. Might be a very good starter package. If you already have a decent choice of libraries for each section, however, I don't hear too much that strikes me as absolutely irreplaceable.


----------



## JonSolo

I really believe the videos to be presented to show that you CAN sit down and start playing this library. However, like with most orchestral libraries, the power lies with the programming you do after you play it. So I don't think we are seeing a true representation of the power of the library. At the same time, nothing is going to easily fix a bad legato transition. The good news is that Steinberg DOES update their products regularly.


----------



## MarcelM

i wonder what "shortly" means for the demo. i guess nobody has further infos,huh?


----------



## Bill the Lesser

OK, what can I do for solo strings with Iconica?

Looks like there are a few solo horns, but no solo strings. Have become attached to the pretty decent solo strings in EW Symphonic which lean toward a Romantic Era feel but which can be stacked up very nicely for crisp, small ensembles. Will those fly in somewhat non-Romantic Iconica? What about Cinestrings Solo? Or what else...

And what size are the individual Iconica string sections?


----------



## sostenuto

Ha, ha _ I might go with KH _ Spotlight Solo Strings just now on-sale at $63.


----------



## dfhagai

Hey Guys & Girls,

Here's my raw, unbiased, unedited, 60 minute first impression screen-cast with Steinberg's Iconica.
Hope you'll find it useful.





Cheers,
HD


----------



## Leo

thnx so much @dfhagai just watching, listen now


----------



## sostenuto

Enjoying the capable, and 'casual', style of these first impressions !  Only 20 minutes in now and about to continue. 
One thing jumped out quickly …. *I* must factor in learning curve for new I/F (HALion) vs familiar K5. Obvious point, but one I should think about fairly while proceeding ….


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I noticed that the number of Mic options differs depending on the instrument type, i.e. The Woodwinds, i.e. the Piccolo has 6 mic options, the strings i.e. Cellos have 4 mic options, I'm guessing this is one of the reasons the Woodwinds download was larger than the Strings. 

Here is a summery of the number of Mics offered per instrument type. 

*Strings* : 4 Mic Options (Close, Tree, AB, Surround)
*Woodwinds* : 6 Mic Options (Close Large, CLose Small, Tree, AB, ORTF, Surround)
*Brass & Perc.* : 5 Mic Options (Close, Tree, AB, ORTF, Surround)

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Leo

Great, informative and objective video. I like it! Big plus for note expressions - the first time I saw it in action, 
Besides the great woods sounds great also harp, celesta, snares, timpani.


----------



## lucor

Just got an email that a 30 day demo for Iconica is now available (https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vst/iconica/sections_and_players.html right next to the 'Buy' and 'Audio Demos' buttons)! 
Man, I really wish this would be possible with Kontakt libraries, I would have saved so much money by now.


----------



## Sami

lucor said:


> Just got an email that a 30 day demo for Iconica is now available (https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vst/iconica/sections_and_players.html right next to the 'Buy' and 'Audio Demos' buttons)!
> Man, I really wish this would be possible with Kontakt libraries, I would have saved so much money by now.



Honestly this is a very significant point. I got the email as well and I think that this is an extremely good move on Steinberg's behalf. This and what @Red Room Audio are doing with their partial release of a free library. For all my love towards Spitfire, the statement "we have youtube videos" just doesn't cut it in my eyes. You can't decide if a pair of trousers is going to fit looking at the size and a youtube video of it either, let alone a 900+ $ library with no refund policy.


----------



## Eptesicus

lucor said:


> Just got an email that a 30 day demo for Iconica is now available (https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vst/iconica/sections_and_players.html right next to the 'Buy' and 'Audio Demos' buttons)!
> Man, I really wish this would be possible with Kontakt libraries, I would have saved so much money by now.




Yep, an example to be followed for sure. I think all developers should be able to offer some sort of trial, especially if it is an expensive library.


----------



## Anthony

When you try the demo does it download all the files shown below, or just a sample of them?


----------



## lucor

Eptesicus said:


> Yep, an example to be followed for sure. I think all developers should be able to offer some sort of trial, especially if it is an expensive library.


Actually, I'm still wondering how this whole thing can even be legal. You can't test them, you can't return them to get your money back, hell you can't even resell them in almost all cases. It's pretty f#$*&ed up if you think about it. I can't think of any other industry where this is the case.


----------



## fretti

Anthony said:


> When you try the demo does it download all the files shown below, or just a sample of them?


Normally Steinberg Demos are the full products so I guess it's all ~150 Gb,
though I think you can just download the instrument section(s) you want to try.
Would make sense at least as they split it up already


----------



## gpax

Sami said:


> Honestly this is a very significant point. I got the email as well and I think that this is an extremely good move on Steinberg's behalf. This and what @Red Room Audio are doing with their partial release of a free library. For all my love towards Spitfire, the statement "we have youtube videos" just doesn't cut it in my eyes. You can't decide if a pair of trousers is going to fit looking at the size and a youtube video of it either, let alone a 900+ $ library with no refund policy.


Lest anyone be singled out, would it not be fair to say that you wish most all orchestral developers might also entertain the idea of trials? Orchestral Tools main libraries included? Most all orchestral developers conduct sales in the manner you just described.

I’d be quite astonished if there was a 150 gigabyte “trial” of this release, though. I’m thinking it will be more in the vein of what Red Room is doing with limited flavors. I may be wrong. The above impromptu video already seems informative enough for me (scrolling through quickly, I confess), and the conclusion seems to be good news for some budgets and levels of building a template.

Which is to also stress wisdom for anyone who asks forum members’ advice about 900$ trousers that cannot be returned, lol. It’s not just lack of trials or developers pointing at YouTube, but our beloved forum has enticed me to buy things that turned out not to fit.

EDIT: I missed that the trial was available. So what does this look like?


----------



## JonSolo

gpax said:


> EDIT: I missed that the trial was available. So what does this look like?



It is the whole thing. You get a temporary license that last for 30 days (eLicenser I assume, I am just getting to it now).


----------



## sostenuto

JonSolo said:


> It is the whole thing. You get a temporary license that last for 30 days (eLicenser I assume, I am just getting to it now).



Yep ! _ Strings dnld over halfway so far ..... Very strong marketing move by Steinberg, IMHO.

Today is final day for NI_Symphony Series Collection Crossgrade at $299.50. I was leaning very hard although having several 'bits & pieces' to get by with .... incl Symphony Essentials.
This move by Steinberg has really had an impact, and no way I will have time to complete the download and fairly audition yet today.
Likely makes the $299.50 _available _to 'defray' Iconica .... 

*@ dfhagai* 'first' impressions'video (Post #106) had massive positive effect, for me. Many thanks to him and hope to see his work here often !!


----------



## Sami

gpax said:


> Lest anyone be singled out, would it not be fair to say that you wish most all orchestral developers might also entertain the idea of trials? Orchestral Tools main libraries included? Most all orchestral developers conduct sales in the manner you just described.
> 
> I’d be quite astonished if there was a 150 gigabyte “trial” of this release, though. I’m thinking it will be more in the vein of what Red Room is doing with limited flavors. I may be wrong. The above impromptu video already seems informative enough for me (scrolling through quickly, I confess), and the conclusion seems to be good news for some budgets and levels of building a template.
> 
> Which is to also stress wisdom for anyone who asks forum members’ advice about 900$ trousers that cannot be returned, lol. It’s not just lack of trials or developers pointing at YouTube, but our beloved forum has enticed me to buy things that turned out not to fit.
> 
> EDIT: I missed that the trial was available. So what does this look like?



Agreed it's most majors, I am just thinking spitfire cause i own so much by them


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I have been experimenting with Steinberg's *Iconica* Library, and decided to use a Breath Controller (BC) instead of the Modwheel for Legato, and Sustain Articulations, the results are very rewarding, I was able to achieve much more realistic legato, and sustain phrases using the BC in realtime, compared to the standard MW on a keyboard. Which imho. is not well suited for creating fluid legato note CC1 data in realtime, when compared with a BC.

I will be posting additional tips/notes from my experimentation with Iconica, and eventually an audio demo/s to show what is possible to accomplish with this library.

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## MarcelM

i think its a quite nice library. i havent played much yet with it, but the first look was promising.

what i didnt like were the loading times of the patches. it loads to 100% and then there is some delay. hard to describe, but maybe you know what i mean. is there some kind if batch resave or some magic trick with halion se?

oh, yes. iam using ssd ofcourse


----------



## gpax

JonSolo said:


> It is the whole thing. You get a temporary license that last for 30 days (eLicenser I assume, I am just getting to it now).


That is impressive. Eager to hear your impressions.


----------



## kavinsky

Sorry if this was answered before, but is this based on a new set of recordings compared to the previous OT libraries?
I wonder if they really went and rerecorded everything again from scratch?


----------



## lucianogiacomozzi

kavinsky said:


> Sorry if this was answered before, but is this based on a new set of recordings compared to the previous OT libraries?
> I wonder if they really went and rerecorded everything again from scratch?



Says it was recorded entirely in a different studio, does it not?


----------



## kavinsky

lucianogiacomozzi said:


> Says it was recorded entirely in a different studio, does it not?


Yes I've missed it, thanks
It still sounded too wet to my taste so I assumed it was Teldex again
But Funkhaus is huge, its ridiculously massive


----------



## sostenuto

Plz help ! Trial downloaded and installed. Very early days with HALion Sonic SE 3 v3.1.15. 
Everything is in place in Steinberg Folder (Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussions and sizes are correct.
With HALion 3 loaded in Reaper (PC _ Win10 Pro) I can only get Strings to appear. I can select and play all String instruments; change articulations, etc. BUT CANNOT DISPLAY OR SELECT ANY OTHER INSTRUMENT SECTIONS (Brass, Woodwinds, Percussions).!
The 'recycle' button seems to work, but always returns to only the STRINGS section.

Will go to the User Manual now, but something to get me going will help a lot !!


----------



## muk

kavinsky said:


> But Funkhaus is huge, its ridiculously massive



The picture you posted is Funkhaus Studio 1. Iconica was recorded in Funkhaus Studio 2:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0j0MJWDwC...AABe8/IQQNoehV8AY/s1600/Funkhaus_hall_2-3.jpg


----------



## InLight-Tone

Sounds too traditional for my jaded ears...


----------



## jamwerks

Even Studio 1 is fairly small. Considerably smaller than Teldex I'd say.


----------



## Saxer

As far as I know Teldex has 450 sqm and Funkhaus Studio 2 has 400 sqm. Funkhaus Studio 1 has 800 sqm.
I have been in Studio 2 and though it is really decades ago I rememer it wasn't 'small'.


http://teldexstudio.wixsite.com/teldexstudio/services
http://www.funkhaus-berlin.net/p/studio1-facts.html
http://www.funkhaus-berlin.net/p/studio-2-facts.html


----------



## kavinsky

jamwerks said:


> Even Studio 1 is fairly small. Considerably smaller than Teldex I'd say.


nope
"The live area at Teldex is almost exactly the same size and shape as Abbey Road Studio One"
Funkhaus: "For a sense of how large an operation this was, its largest room is almost twice the size of Abbey Road’s Studio 1"
source - sound on sound magazine


----------



## Heinigoldstein

sostenuto said:


> Plz help ! Trial downloaded and installed. Very early days with HALion Sonic SE 3 v3.1.15.
> Everything is in place in Steinberg Folder (Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Percussions and sizes are correct.
> With HALion 3 loaded in Reaper (PC _ Win10 Pro) I can only get Strings to appear. I can select and play all String instruments; change articulations, etc. BUT CANNOT DISPLAY OR SELECT ANY OTHER INSTRUMENT SECTIONS (Brass, Woodwinds, Percussions).!
> The 'recycle' button seems to work, but always returns to only the STRINGS section.
> 
> Will go to the User Manual now, but something to get me going will help a lot !!



In Logic I have to close Halion and open it again every now and then to view it´s whole content.


----------



## sostenuto

Heinigoldstein said:


> In Logic I have to close Halion and open it again every now and then to view it´s whole content.


THX. I tried this in Reaper, and also in HALion Sonic SE 3 Standalone. No change. SE 3 sees only Strings, even though Steinberg Download Folder has all the others, and the content looks correct.
I think somehow the Downloader worked, but the 'Open? (_forget the name_)' Command only ran properly on the Strings Download and not the others? Went to Download Assistant and only option now seems to be Download again.


----------



## sostenuto

Anyone running the Trial with HALion Sonic SE 3, Win10 Pro, and/or Reaper ? 
So puzzling that Strings works well, but other sections in same download folder are not seen by Sonic SE 3.


----------



## lucianogiacomozzi

Comparing sizes, eh? Not good for egos!


----------



## robgb

sostenuto said:


> Ha, ha _ I might go with KH _ Spotlight Solo Strings just now on-sale at $63.


I have SSS. Good library. But untouched since I got the Audio Modeling SWAM strings.


----------



## muziksculp

Looking forward to see Steinberg release *Iconica Ensembles* Library. 

I wonder if they have plans to add some *Solo Strings* to Iconica via an expansion, they could act as first-chairs to add more realism and definition to the ensembles.


----------



## Erik

sostenuto said:


> THX. I tried this in Reaper, and also in HALion Sonic SE 3 Standalone. No change. SE 3 sees only Strings, even though Steinberg Download Folder has all the others, and the content looks correct.
> I think somehow the Downloader worked, but the 'Open? (_forget the name_)' Command only ran properly on the Strings Download and not the others? Went to Download Assistant and only option now seems to be Download again.


I had the same issue. Please go to one of the other folders, click on one of the files, you'll see that this folder will be added to (what I call here) the _database_. Repeat for the two folders left. This (strange) procedure solved it for me (Win7-64bit).
Good luck.


----------



## sostenuto

Erik said:


> I had the same issue. Please go to one of the other folders, click on one of the files, you'll see that this folder will be added to (what I call here) the _database_. Repeat for the two folders left. This (strange) procedure solved it for me (Win7-64bit).
> Good luck.



I HOPE !!! Did TeamViewer with STB Support and nothing worked so was told to delete all the nonworking downloads and start over !!  Fortunately, I had copied to HDD and will try your advice ….


----------



## sostenuto

Erik said:


> I had the same issue. Please go to one of the other folders, click on one of the files, you'll see that this folder will be added to (what I call here) the _database_. Repeat for the two folders left. This (strange) procedure solved it for me (Win7-64bit).
> Good luck.



*@ Erik* __ YOU ARE THE MAN !!  
Did this with each 'section' Folder an all is now visible in SONIC SE3 in Reaper. I am cool now, as this is a Trial and plenty to work with for next 30 days.

I did call STB Support and fedback your info.


----------



## MarcelM

i have read on some german forum that there is also an elements (smaller) and opus (bigger) version coming. not sure if its true, but i guess it is. seems steinberg has some plans.


----------



## pinki

Wow a trial! 
I just hope one thing..that this puts the wind up other developers to offer trials too. But I guess that's a Kontakt problem in fairness. So maybe Kontakt 6 will allow demos, that would be great.


----------



## pinki

Heroix said:


> i have read on some german forum that there is also an elements (smaller) and opus (bigger) version coming. not sure if its true, but i guess it is. seems steinberg has some plans.



Yes they are on the site now..but not for sale


----------



## leon chevalier

pinki said:


> Yes they are on the site now..but not for sale


It's at the bottom of the product page :
https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vst/iconica/sections_and_players.html

Iconica Ensemble :
An ensemble lib for fast writing
Iconica Opus:
A bundle with iconica and iconica ensemble


----------



## procreative

Interesting, but not for me, for someone starting out possibly. I think Cubase users will find this the most interesting.

Thing is how much effort will be put into fixing issues and how hard will OT try to make it better if its going to compete with their own stuff?

For an all in one package I think Palette is better value, or even EW Hollywood Orchestra...

Watched a review, the noise build up reminds me a bit of MA2. Legato is "okay", nothing stellar. Don't like the GUI personally, a bit Garritan looking and somehow slightly dated.

The demo idea is excellent though, even though downloading 150GB is such an epic... I think they are gambling on the fact that having a library on your drive you can no longer use after 30 days will tempt some to buy.


----------



## pinki

procreative said:


> The demo idea is excellent though, even though downloading 150GB is such an epic... I think they are gambling on the fact that having a library on your drive you can no longer use after 30 days will tempt some to buy.



Ha this is a good point! I will download the demo anyhow just to play around with it.

I do like the GUI but that legato worries me. Too expensive I think for me.


----------



## pinki

What's the resale policy for this?
A full demo and easy resale is a huge change in sampled orchestra policy!


----------



## gyprock

Have expression maps for Iconica been provided by Steinberg?


----------



## sostenuto

procreative said:


> *******
> For an all in one package I think Palette is better value, or even EW Hollywood Orchestra...
> The demo idea is excellent though, even though downloading 150GB is such an epic... I think they are gambling on the fact that having a library on your drive you can no longer use after 30 days will tempt some to buy.



For me, your Palette comment rings true, but only early days with Primary Colors;
and very recent Saga video Wallkthroughs.


----------



## procreative

I used to hoover up every new library as I am such a gear(slut). But I have been trying to be more selective and keep my addiction in check. Otherwise...

I think two things helped me here: the Legato and the fact its Hallion which does not play so well with Logic.

If you are on Cubase, perhaps if it comes with pre-made expression maps, its almost a no-brainer.

£600 pre-sale is very good for the amount of content, but not quite "what the heck count me in" territory if you already have other libraries.


----------



## Saxer

procreative said:


> I think two things helped me here: the Legato and the fact its Hallion which does not play so well with Logic.


I never tried Halion in Logic. What's the problem there compared to others (like Kontakt)?


----------



## procreative

Someone else mentioned GUI issues in this thread. Other than that maybe nothing else, never tried...


----------



## robgb

I didn't even realize this wasn't a Kontakt library. Count me out. I like the flexibility of Kontakt.


----------



## sostenuto

robgb said:


> I didn't even realize this wasn't a Kontakt library. Count me out. I like the flexibility of Kontakt.



I was attracted a bit by the 'Capsule' comments, but already needing to spend more time learning deeper info re. HALion Sonic SE3. 
One (1) Instrument loads and works well, but adding several more in one instance is not as expected. 
Surely MY problem, but I'm a dedicated Win10 Pro /Reaper User and no clue whether the HALion /Cubase orientation gap will close quickly or easily …. ??


----------



## emasters

gyprock said:


> Have expression maps for Iconica been provided by Steinberg?



When running Cubase, you can dynamically import Expression Maps (see their overview video to see how this works). Really a great feature if you're using Cubase.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

robgb said:


> I didn't even realize this wasn't a Kontakt library. Count me out. I like the flexibility of Kontakt.



Yep, unless you are married to Cubase, this library is useless.


----------



## korruptkey

Wolfie2112 said:


> Yep, unless you are married to Cubase, this library is useless.



Well... it's not useless. You don't need cubase to use it, just missing a lot of workflows you could benefit from.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

korruptkey said:


> Well... it's not useless. You don't need cubase to use it, just missing a lot of workflows you could benefit from.



My bad, I didn't realize Halion could be used outside Cubase. In that case...


----------



## MarcelM

i get better loading times between using cubase pro instead of studio one 4 pro. a bit weird, but true


----------



## sostenuto

Wolfie2112 said:


> My bad, I didn't realize Halion could be used outside Cubase. In that case...



Would be interesting to see Steinberg make a notable push toward Win10 Users, of which there are massive numbers, who are always watching for affordable, quality Orchestral libraries.


----------



## robgb

Wolfie2112 said:


> My bad, I didn't realize Halion could be used outside Cubase. In that case...


I use Halion SE for a couple free instruments, but for me, Kontakt is irreplaceable. I like being able to go behind the wrench and tweak my libraries. Don't believe that can be done with Halion SE. But, of course, I could be wrong.


----------



## sostenuto

robgb said:


> I use Halion SE for a couple free instruments, but for me, Kontakt is irreplaceable. I like being able to go behind the wrench and tweak my libraries. Don't believe that can be done with Halion SE. But, of course, I could be wrong.



Recent Sample Fuel offerings have been fine exposure to HALion for me, but otherwise would have had no reason to move away from Kontakt5.


----------



## pinki

Steinberg's website says:
"HALion Sonic SE 3 is available for free as a plug-in for any VST3, VST2, AU and AAX compatible host and as a stand-alone application for macOS and Windows."

So downloaded all day, but there _is_ _no_ VST2 version of HalionSE...so that's me out as I use Notion which won't see VST3.
So Bitwig will load VST3 but it crashes within minutes and consistently.
I'll try DP next...edit..yes very stable with DP9


----------



## sostenuto

pinki said:


> Steinberg's website says:
> "HALion Sonic SE 3 is available for free as a plug-in for any VST3, VST2, AU and AAX compatible host and as a stand-alone application for macOS and Windows."
> 
> So downloaded all day, but there _is_ _no_ VST2 version of HalionSE...so that's me out as I use Notion which won't see VST3.
> So Bitwig will load VST3 but it crashes within minutes and consistently.
> I'll try DP next



Both VSTi2 and VSTi3 running in Win10 Pro Reaper 64 now. 
Minor issues weeks ago with VSTi3, but coincident with Updates for Reaper and Win10 Pro. Now all seems resolved.


----------



## pinki

Hmm well not VST2 for Mac then. 

So my initial impressions are this is a great library..the only two misgivings I have are the legato transitions..but with a bit of tweaking it's possible to improve them, and some of the dynamic crossfading is super jumpy..legato french horn for example is almost unusable due to the dynamic jumps.
The percussion is fabulous as is the low woodwind. The mic selection is also wonderful with the ability to really shape the sound in a deep way...the combination of close and surround mics is amazing.


----------



## robgb

I've decided to download and give it a try. So far I like the strings (still waiting on other downloads), although the close mics are too wet and too narrow, so you really have no choice but to use the tree mics. If you can deal with the baked-in ambience, the strings sound very nice if a little sterile. Based on using the strings, however, I can't say that this library is worth the $699 price tag. MAYBE half that. Or maybe a third.

Also, the close samples are very noisy.
Legato transitions (testing violas) are not very smooth. P to MP especially.


----------



## pinki

Noisy yes. Wait for the woodwind and percussion...I think they are great but ymmv.


----------



## robgb

pinki said:


> Noisy yes. Wait for the woodwind and percussion...I think they are great but ymmv.


Downloading now.


----------



## sostenuto

Looking forward to your comments after you experience all of Iconica.
My early thoughts are two-fold: 1) Unlikely to go at $700. 2) As a committed Win10 Pro /Reaper /Kontakt5 User, having one key Orchestral Library running in HALion Sonic SE would only make sense if it is 'unsurpassed' in its capabilities.

While I do appreciate this 30-day opportunity to experience Iconica, the current offers for:
Light & Sound Chamber Strings, @ $149. _as well as_
Spitfire Audio Solo Strings, @ $339. ($488. total) are very 'GASifying' ….


----------



## robgb

Re: Woodwinds

I hate to say it, but I'm not impressed by the woodwinds at all. I think the woodwinds in the Kontakt Factory library sound far better, although, admittedly, with fewer articulations. So, so far, strings: nice. woodwinds: shop elsewhere.


----------



## pinki

mmm interesting..even the bass clarinet and bassoon? Flute is a bit odd I think.


----------



## JonSolo

There is a lot to like about this library. I think the sound in general is really good. But on playing, I have to agree, it is overpriced for what it is. Additionally, I have so much already to choose from, this does not fill any missing holes. There are aspects that make this much easier to use, that have already been touched on. The two-part matrix for example is a great idea. But I own Berlin Inspire, Berlin Woodwinds, everything by EWQL, Musical Sampling, Performance Samples, etc. and this just does not fill any need.

Great starter library, but if you can deal with Play, I think EWQL Hollywood Orchestra Platinum is a better value.


----------



## Bill the Lesser

JonSolo said:


> Great starter library, but if you can deal with Play, I think EWQL Hollywood Orchestra Platinum is a better value.


Thanks so much for that! I just bought my own personal copy of Platinum about an hour before Iconica hit!

I recently noticed NI's new Session Strings 2 has implemented a very similar two-part matrix scheme.


----------



## dfhagai

gyprock said:


> Have expression maps for Iconica been provided by Steinberg?


No need. They are automatically generated once you hit "Import Key Switch" on the Expression tab in the inspector.


----------



## robgb

pinki said:


> mmm interesting..even the bass clarinet and bassoon? Flute is a bit odd I think.


There is an odd ambience to them that I really dislike. Once again proof that dry samples are best. I didn't bother with the brass and uninstalled it.


----------



## MarcelM

after playing a few days with it i have to agree that for the price its not worth it. i mean the sound is "ok", but not more. steinberg asks too much money for this one i guess.


----------



## robgb

Heroix said:


> after playing a few days with it i have to agree that for the price its not worth it. i mean the sound is "ok", but not more. steinberg asks too much money for this one i guess.



I think this is a MUCH better value for a starter/sketching library, and I bought it at 70% off, so...

https://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/products/virtuoso-ensemble/


----------



## MarcelM

robgb said:


> I think this is a MUCH better value for a starter/sketching library, and I bought it at 70% off, so...
> 
> https://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/products/virtuoso-ensemble/



if i were starting out i would get a composer cloud subscription and then wait for a deal on kontakt 5 and get some black friday deals. but even with only CC you can do ALOT. and iam not the biggest fan of eastwest or play, but for the money you cannot get better value.


----------



## robgb

Heroix said:


> if i were starting out i would get a composer cloud subscription and then wait for a deal on kontakt 5 and get some black friday deals. but even with only CC you can do ALOT. and iam not the biggest fan of eastwest or play, but for the money you cannot get better value.


Makes sense. Although I tried CC for a month and was really not impressed by any of it.


----------



## MarcelM

robgb said:


> Makes sense. Although I tried CC for a month and was really not impressed by any of it.



the hollywood orchestra alone is worth the money. it takes a bit of work to make it sound good, but it can sound awesome. on top you get alot of other stuff aswell. spaces for example or RA, stormdrum etc.

really best advice for beginners imho.


----------



## sostenuto

robgb said:


> I think this is a MUCH better value for a starter/sketching library, and I bought it at 70% off, so...
> 
> https://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/products/virtuoso-ensemble/



Aaaaarrrgggghhhh !! So close on that one when @ -70% and too ignorant to grab. Maybe promo'd again ?

Iconica will likely be fine for many, but I bailed as well ….. partly because already using BO_Inspire and/or The Orchestra, with KH_Diamond SO, NI_Symphony Essentials, K11U_ K5FactLib for other fine content. 

*@ robgb* …… until KH_Virtuosos Ens is offered again ….. I am sorely tempted by _Light & Sound Chamber Strings_, at current $149. Does this add nicely to what I list above, or are these 'essential' capabilities already there ?


----------



## robgb

sostenuto said:


> I am sorely tempted by _Light & Sound Chamber Strings_, at current $149


Well, we never have enough, right? I'm tempted by L&S, too, but honestly with KH Diamond and Virtuoso and Opus 1 (still amazing) and Hyperion and Red Room and Adagietto and CS2, I'm really not sure there's much it can do for me.


----------



## robgb

Heroix said:


> it takes a bit of work to make it sound good, but it can sound awesome.


I think it sounded great, but I didn't like the lack of control like you have with Kontakt instruments. I'm a tweaker. I mean... well, you know what I mean.


----------



## muk

To my ears the Light & Sound Chamber Strings sound way better than anything I have ever heard with Kirk Hunter Strings. 'Way better' like in a completely different league, really. I suspect I'd like them better than Iconica Strings too. Iconica sounds decent and might be a good option to start building your orchestral samples toolbox. Light & Sound Chamber Strings on the other hand are capable of sounding excellent when used well in my opinion.


----------



## robgb

muk said:


> To my ears the Light & Sound Chamber Strings sound way better than anything I have ever heard with Kirk Hunter Strings. 'Way better' like in a completely different league, really.


We'll have to disagree. They do sound different, but not necessarily better. It all depends on what you're going for. I do like the way they sound, but I have so many strings at this point I really need to move along.


----------



## muk

Yes, differing opinions here, which is completely fine. You have a few options for chamber strings already, and if you are happy with them there is indeed little need to add another one.


----------



## sostenuto

muk said:


> To my ears the Light & Sound Chamber Strings sound way better than anything I have ever heard with Kirk Hunter Strings. 'Way better' like in a completely different league, really. I suspect I'd like them better than Iconica Strings too. Iconica sounds decent and might be a good option to start building your orchestral samples toolbox. Light & Sound Chamber Strings on the other hand are capable of sounding excellent when used well in my opinion.



As learner/neophyte, with orchestral/epic/trlr interests, Chamber is a true puzzle. The current L&S pricing is a major factor, but I have tried to move toward the very best affordable content now. OT, SFA, VSL, LASS remain out of reach except when major promos offered, ___ 
_but 'full' String Libs, which offer divisi, can essentially do Chamber work... right ?? _

GAS is disturbing my judgement but $149. for L&S Chamber Strings is definitely comfortable .......


----------



## JonSolo

I am not going to be an Iconica hater. It IS a good library. But as I mentioned before, EWQL Hollywood Platinum can be found cheaper occasionally (such as this past week) and is a better deal for the money.

L&S is new to me. Will check it out. I have so many strings, heh.


----------



## muk

sostenuto said:


> but 'full' String Libs, which offer divisi, can essentially do Chamber work... right ??



It depends. A chamber orchestra sound does not solely come from the number of players. The recording venue, recording technique, and the way the players play are just as important. That's why smaller sections can sound pretty large and not like a chamber sized string orchestra at all.

Personally if I had to choose the best value strings options I would go for Light & Sound for Chamber Strings for the chamber strings sound, and either Cinematic Studio Strings (awesome sound, easy to use) or Hollywood Strings Gold (much more complex to use, but more flexible due to sheer amount of articulations and options) for the symphonic strings sound.

But it comes down to what kind of sound you are after (I enjoy 'classically' sounding libraries, like an orchestra in a concert hall would), your personal workflow, how many articulations you need, and so on.


----------



## sostenuto

muk said:


> It depends. A chamber orchestra sound does not solely come from the number of players. The recording venue, recording technique, and the way the players play are just as important. That's why smaller sections can sound pretty large and not like a chamber sized string orchestra at all.
> 
> Personally if I had to choose the best value strings options I would go for Light & Sound for Chamber Strings for the chamber strings sound, and either Cinematic Studio Strings (awesome sound, easy to use) or *******



Many thanks! Your Chamber comments are clear, and L&S is a comfortable step forward ( NOT simply cost  ).

CSS has been shortlisted for some time, and will revisit. A key point with CSS is separation from CSSS, with later crossgrade. 
LASS has been top of list, but its divisi is not present in Lite, so $$ commitment is ^^^

Regards


----------



## markleake

I have to dissagree with Rob here, my opinion is L&S Chamber Strings are right up there as one of the best in terms of chamber string sections. The sounds is great and the multiple microphones are great. Kirk Hunter isn't really a good comparison... I don't have KH, but I've never heard any examples of them that sounds close to that same level. I think it's a bit silly to lump them into the same bucket as L&S or CSS.


----------



## markleake

On topic, how do people think Iconica compares to OT Inspire?

It seems to me like Inspire is going to suit some people better than Iconica.


----------



## robgb

markleake said:


> I think it's a bit silly to lump them into the same bucket as L&S or CSS.


To each his own. I do have KH strings, among many others, and they hold up quite well. They're especially good for layering, which is what I do with all my string libraries anyway. By the way, I never said L&S wasn't good. I think it sounds damn good, and if I could justify buying it, I would.

I find that most who dismiss KH strings don't own them. I do agree that his demos aren't the best representation of the strings.


----------



## MarcelM

robgb said:


> To each his own. I do have KH strings, among many others, and they hold up quite well. They're especially good for layering, which is what I do with all my string libraries anyway. By the way, I never said L&S wasn't good. I think it sounds damn good, and if I could justify buying them, I would.
> 
> I find that most who dismiss KH strings don't own them. I do agree that his demos aren't the best representation of the strings.



can the concert strings really sound as good as css does? i highly doubt that. with all respect, i believe most people think that css is the best string library so far overall. i agree with this actually.

still, iam tempted to give concert strings 3 a chance, but the demos arent really convincing tbh.


----------



## robgb

Heroix said:


> can the concert strings really sound as good as css does?


Probably not. But I have no experience with CSS. As for Concert Strings 3, I don't have it and from what I've heard, I wouldn't recommend it either. But many of the strings (not all) in Diamond sound great, and the strings in Virtuoso are nice, too. Like any dry recorded strings, Hunter's take some work to make them sound good. But that's the fun of it.


----------



## sostenuto

robgb said:


> Probably not. But I have no experience with CSS. As for Concert Strings 3, I don't have it and from what I've heard, I wouldn't recommend it either. But many of the strings (not all) in Diamond sound great, and the strings in Virtuoso are nice, too. Like any dry recorded strings, Hunter's take some work to make them sound good. But that's the fun of it.



This is so confusing as I have no serious issues with Diamond SO.
I appreciate the positives re. Virtuoso Ensembles and Spotlight Solo Strings, but then criticisms of CS3 make me bonkers. No provider is prefect, but I do not understand how KH would/could put out something so inconsistent with his normal fare ????
If I cannot get comfortable with purchasing CS3, then a major 'shift' is in order __ maybe to LASS First Chair 2 and Lass Lite Bundle. 
($188. to $338 is not a trivial jump with no clue if it helps ….)

KH responded to my e-mail that there is no 'overlap' of CS3 with Diamond SO.


----------



## robgb

Here's a quick example of KH Diamond violins with Divisi Live, playing slowly up the scale. Sounds quite lovely to me. Certainly can't say it sounds bad or worse than many other string libraries. But what do I know? Maybe my ears are shot.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/kh-violin-test-mp3.14337/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## robgb

sostenuto said:


> This is so confusing as I have no serious issues with Diamond SO.


I don't have issues with the strings. The woodwinds are unusable for me, and the brass doesn't sound the best. I think the brass in Virtuoso is much, much better, and the woodwinds are fantastic.


----------



## Tod

robgb said:


> Here's a quick example of KH Diamond violins with Divisi Live, playing slowly up the scale. Sounds quite lovely to me. Certainly can't say it sounds bad or worse than many other string libraries. But what do I know? Maybe my ears are shot.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/kh-violin-test-mp3.14337/][/AUDIOPLUS]



So rob, how many layers do you have with the Diamond violins?


----------



## markleake

robgb said:


> Here's a quick example of KH Diamond violins with Divisi Live, playing slowly up the scale. Sounds quite lovely to me. Certainly can't say it sounds bad or worse than many other string libraries. But what do I know? Maybe my ears are shot.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/kh-violin-test-mp3.14337/][/AUDIOPLUS]


I just did a quick comparison to several other ensemble libraries with violin 1 sections. I think this shows why I don't find them very convincing - at least for my personal taste.

The KH Diamond violins sound filtered to me. They are missing a fair bit of the more open tone other libraries have. CSS for example, which is darker in tone than most string libraries, so should theoretically be a good comparison, has more of that feathery openness typical of violins and also more direct detail. Other libraries, including ones recorded fairly dry like L&S, also aren't missing so much of that open tone vs. the KH strings.

Personally I prefer strings recorded with a more natural tone, where you can hear the airiness and detail in the bowing better. That should be achievable even when recording a reasonable sized ensemble. It is this tone in the library recordings that you need to give it some realism.


----------



## robgb

Tod said:


> So rob, how many layers do you have with the Diamond violins?


Those are just the standard Diamond VTec violins, dry, with a convo verb added on a buss and some PuigTec EQ for a bit of warmth.

Oh, if you're talking about velocity layers, I have no idea. I think it's four, but I could be wrong.


----------



## robgb

markleake said:


> The KH Diamond violins sound filtered to me. They are missing a fair bit of the more open tone other libraries have. CSS for example, which is darker in tone than most string libraries so should theoretically be a good comparison


These are the kind of things that can be fixed. EQ is your friend. You can also find instrument IRs to warm them up if you like. There's no reason to accept any sound out of the box. Learn to shape it to your taste.



markleake said:


> Personally I prefer strings recorded with a more natural tone, where you can hear the airiness and detail in the bowing better.



Well, they're all recorded differently, so to each his own. But again, EQ is your friend.


----------



## CT

I don't think the particular sonic qualities that markleake is talking about can just be EQ'd back in. If they're not there, they're not there. Another reason why this idea of "blank slate" VI's doesn't convince me in the least, appealing as it is on paper.

As for Iconica, I was as interested as everyone else, but yeah... I really don't hear upwards of $700 here, not by a long shot.


----------



## Tod

robgb said:


> Those are just the standard Diamond VTec violins, dry, with a convo verb added on a buss and some PuigTec EQ for a bit of warmth.
> 
> Oh, if you're talking about velocity layers, I have no idea. I think it's four, but I could be wrong.



What I mean is how many velocity layers, I've got the Diamond Orchestra, and I could only find one velocity layer for the instruments. Consequently no crossfades for dynamics.


----------



## markleake

I don't have any KH library, so I really don't know if EQ could bring back some of that missing detail. But I'm with @miket, I kind of doubt that it's possible.


----------



## Tod

markleake said:


> I don't have any KH library, so I really don't know if EQ could bring back some of that missing detail. But I'm with @miket, I kind of doubt that it's possible.



Yes, that's what my Diamond library used was EQ for the dynamics. It was just not enough so I added my own script for the EQ and made it little better but not much. EQ just doesn't substitute for real played velocity levels.


----------



## markleake

Tod said:


> Yes, that's what my Diamond library used was EQ for the dynamics. It was just not enough so I added my own script for the EQ and made it little better but not much. EQ just doesn't substitute for real played velocity levels.


Yes, agreed. Real recordings of the various dynamics are important. If KH Diamond doesn't have them, well, good luck... there's no amount of EQing that will get back what is missing. I guess that's why they sound filtered then - they are! 

So if that is the case, I don't don't understand why KH is being used here as a comparison to Iconica, CSS or L&S Chamber.
All of these will be miles better, given they all have real recorded dynamic layers.


----------



## muk

So here is the same phrase with Light & Sound, and Cinematic studio Strings:

Light & Sound:
https://app.box.com/s/hzukxqkn9h1ky9a9ofn9llhqrw2zkvnx

Cinematic Studio Strings:
https://app.box.com/s/jck8rprkq6lky87f4uss8o9r1cw7oq4n

Thanks to @robgb for presenting the Kirk Hunter example. Does somebody have the time and motivation to do the same with the Iconica strings?


----------



## MarcelM

muk said:


> So here is the same phrase with Light & Sound, and Cinematic studio Strings:
> 
> Light & Sound:
> https://app.box.com/s/hzukxqkn9h1ky9a9ofn9llhqrw2zkvnx
> 
> Cinematic Studio Strings:
> https://app.box.com/s/jck8rprkq6lky87f4uss8o9r1cw7oq4n
> 
> Thanks to @robgb for presenting the Kirk Hunter example. Does somebody have the time and motivation to do the same with the Iconica strings?



both example sound ALOT better than the KH strings.

already uninstalled iconica, so i cannot help here.


----------



## markleake

I'd be interested in a similar demo for Iconica, please anyone? If @robgb has the midi, he may be willing to pass it on? I find these quick comparisons very useful.


----------



## muk

Heroix said:


> both example sound ALOT better than the KH strings.



That's my impression as well. Curious to hear how Iconica would fare.


----------



## robgb

Tod said:


> What I mean is how many velocity layers, I've got the Diamond Orchestra, and I could only find one velocity layer for the instruments. Consequently no crossfades for dynamics.


In Kontakt you can crossfade between groups instead of layer zones (in fact, I find this way much easier to set up), and there are several groups per articulation (at least four), so I'm assuming that's how KH does it. It's hard to tell because of the way his samples are named. He also does some trickery with EQ, which you can adjust yourself. But again, whatever his method or velocity layer count, if the example I posted doesn't show the beauty of the sound, then I'm either crazy, have really bad ears, or am just not as hard to please as others might be. I'm less concerned about what's going on inside than I am with what comes out when you play.

By the way, I rarely play only one sample library. I tend to layer them, depending on the type of sound I'm looking for. If I want something a little rawer, for example, I might layer in some chamber strings or a solo violin, or another library with a different sound.


----------



## robgb

markleake said:


> I'd be interested in a similar demo for Iconica, please anyone? If @robgb has the midi, he may be willing to pass it on? I find these quick comparisons very useful.


Here's the midi file. Keep in mind I used the sustain pedal, so adjust your library accordingly. I'd do the Iconica version, but I deleted it from my drive.


----------



## sostenuto

robgb said:


> Here's the midi file. Keep in mind I used the sustain pedal, so adjust your library accordingly. I'd do the Iconica version, but I deleted it from my drive.



Good ( for me, at least ) to see this continuing. Last night got a bit late, some helpful KH comment, but still nothing truly helpful about criticisms of KH_CS3.
I'm not put off at all about my KH_Diamond SO (_different strokes for different folks_) but, with some positive support for much of KH libs, how does CS3 'fail' by comparison ?? This is key right now, with the current promo.


----------



## muziksculp

More posts about Iconica rather than other libraries would be appreciated.


----------



## robgb

sostenuto said:


> how does CS3 'fail' by comparison


It just "sounds" different to me. More synthetic. And I don't say that lightly, because I think the synthetic accusation is often a bogus one.



muziksculp said:


> More posts about Iconica rather than other libraries would be appreciated.



I think we're probably beyond that at this point. Like all long threads, they tend to morph.


----------



## muziksculp

robgb said:


> Like all long threads, they tend to morph.



I think it is called *Off Topic* at some point.


----------



## muziksculp

I was in the process of making a demo track using only Iconica, started the track yesterday, but unfortunately I cut the side of my right hand's index finger, it's quite a deep cut using a very sharp knife while cooking last night, so I am not able to perform on the keyboard for a few days, until the cut heals, but from my short experience with the library, I feel it sounds pretty good, especially if you use it creatively, and add some third party reverb to process the sounds using independent outs, ..etc. Also layering can be quite interesting.


----------



## sostenuto

I feel the 'control' point is COMMERCIAL Announcements vs SAMPLE Talk. Early on I had my hands smacked a couple times, and learned to stay on-topic when on COMMERCIAL. 
I would hate to see people starting new Threads, in SAMPLE Talk, everytime each person wishes to comment on something they feel is related …. _at least from their POV_.


----------



## sostenuto

muziksculp said:


> I was in the process of making a demo track using only Iconica, started the track yesterday, but unfortunately I cut the side of my right hand's index finger, it's quite a deep cut using a very sharp knife while cooking last night, so I am not able to perform on the keyboard for a few days, until the cut heals, but from my short experience with the library, I feel it sounds pretty good, especially if you use it creatively, and add some third party reverb to process the sounds using independent outs, ..etc. Also layering can be quite interesting.



Ooooouch !!  I am avid foodie and Japanese cutlery /sharpening hobbyist. Accidental cuts are magnified manyxxxx ! 
Superglue is your friend … right ?? 

Take care and heal quickly! (( _Sorry for OT !_ ))


----------



## muziksculp

sostenuto said:


> Ooooouch !!  I am avid foodie and Japanese cutlery /sharpening hobbyist. Accidental cuts are magnified manyxxxx !
> Superglue is your friend … right ??
> 
> Take care and heal quickly! (( _Sorry for OT !_ ))



Cool. 

Thanks. I actually sharpened the knife real well before I cut my index finger, the knife slipped and chopped off the side of my index finger. It was supposed to land on some New Zealand Lamb Chop.


----------



## lumcas

Ok, back on topic. I think Iconica will be a good deal in a year or two at 50% off sale. I like the sound but legato and velocity transitions don't cut it.


----------



## iMovieShout

Yep the YouTube videos and tutorials sound good. Shame I can't get it to come up in Haliion6 or SE. Just doesn't appear. I guess I'm doing something wrong. I've activated it in eLicenser and then started up Nuendo 8.5, but loading Halion SE as a new instrument doesn't display Iconica. 
Any one else having this problem?


----------



## iMovieShout

jpb007.uk said:


> Yep the YouTube videos and tutorials sound good. Shame I can't get it to come up in Haliion6 or SE. Just doesn't appear. I guess I'm doing something wrong. I've activated it in eLicenser and then started up Nuendo 8.5, but loading Halion SE as a new instrument doesn't display Iconica.
> Any one else having this problem?



PS: Oh and I've re-scanned the instruments and effects in the PlugIn Manager.


----------



## muziksculp

jpb007.uk said:


> Yep the YouTube videos and tutorials sound good. Shame I can't get it to come up in Haliion6 or SE. Just doesn't appear. I guess I'm doing something wrong. I've activated it in eLicenser and then started up Nuendo 8.5, but loading Halion SE as a new instrument doesn't display Iconica.
> Any one else having this problem?



No problems here, Iconica shows up and works fine in both Halion 6 and Halion Sonic/HS SE. In Halion 6 it should appear with other libraries if you click the media-bay tab. I use Studio One Pro 4 on PC.


----------



## emasters

jpb007.uk said:


> Yep the YouTube videos and tutorials sound good. Shame I can't get it to come up in Haliion6 or SE. Just doesn't appear. I guess I'm doing something wrong. I've activated it in eLicenser and then started up Nuendo 8.5, but loading Halion SE as a new instrument doesn't display Iconica.
> Any one else having this problem?



One thing I've read that you might try -- go into each of the four sound folders (where the VST Sound files were downloaded and unpacked). In each of those folders, double-click on one of the VST Sound files. For some folks, doing this registers all the sounds with HALion. Don't know if that's the issue you're experiencing, but may be worth a try.


----------



## muziksculp

emasters said:


> In each of those folders, double-click on one of the VST Sound files. For some folks, doing this registers all the sounds with HALion.



Yes, this is an important step to register Iconica to Halion, make sure you do it, otherwise Iconica won't show up in Halion.


----------



## robgb

muziksculp said:


> Yes, this is an important step to register Iconica to Halion, make sure you do it, otherwise Iconica won't show up in Halion.


Wouldn't it be nice if we could forego all this registering crap?


----------



## muziksculp

robgb said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if we could forego all this registering crap?



Yeah, that would be refreshing , and with Iconica having an odd procedure to register the library, from the sample level, rather than from the Instrument, so a bit tricky, especially if you didn't read the manual/install instructions, you would expect the instrument to register the library, not the other way around.


----------



## pinki

muziksculp said:


> Yes, this is an important step to register Iconica to Halion, make sure you do it, otherwise Iconica won't show up in Halion.



Yes I had to do this. 

I think Iconica is good, just too expensive. The velocity XFade is not good on some instruments but I think the basic sound I like a lot actually. If it were $300-400 I might of bitten but $700 is too much.


----------



## Dani Donadi

I'm very interested to hear other demos, so far i'm not convinced and $700 is a heavy price.
The special sales ends in a few days....... hmmmm!!!!


----------



## Tod

Dani Donadi said:


> I'm very interested to hear other demos, so far i'm not convinced and $700 is a heavy price.
> The special sales ends in a few days....... hmmmm!!!!



The demos seem to have the same sequence, is that listed some where, maybe a midi file?


----------



## lastmessiah

After playing with the demo, I strongly disagree with the assessments in this thread. Iconica sounds great, just the right amount of dryness but with character too. The percussion in particular is exceptional. If anything this is underpriced considering the mic positions that are included.

I'm considering getting this along with Halion 6.


----------



## dcoscina

I wish more developers would do what SF audio originally did which was release the mic settings in different batches. I think it would dramatically reduce the memory footprint to have just stereo mic’s on these beasts that would move away from the 100+ GB footprint. If Steinberg comes out with Inconica Elements perhaps they would just release it with stereo Mic’s which would reduce the price and disk space requirements l


----------



## richardt4520

dcoscina said:


> I wish more developers would do what SF audio originally did which was release the mic settings in different batches. I think it would dramatically reduce the memory footprint to have just stereo mic’s on these beasts that would move away from the 100+ GB footprint. If Steinberg comes out with Inconica Elements perhaps they would just release it with stereo Mic’s which would reduce the price and disk space requirements l



Fantastic idea! As it goes, I've got some libraries that have as many as 8 mic positions and I always prefer just using close mics and throwing some reverb on it. That would be a real space saver


----------



## dcoscina

richardt4520 said:


> Fantastic idea! As it goes, I've got some libraries that have as many as 8 mic positions and I always prefer just using close mics and throwing some reverb on it. That would be a real space saver


Yeah maybe have scalable pricing so level one is main mics, level 2 is close or Deccan or whatever.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I'm actually liking *Iconica* *Section & Players* Library so far, and have decided to go forward, and produce a demo track using only Iconica Sections & Players, now that my index-finger has healed, I can perform on my keyboard without worrying about my finger.  I will post the Iconica demo here when it's ready. 

OH.. I'm still discovering this library, currently using the new EW-Spaces II as my main reverb/s when using Iconica, which sounds great with Spaces II, . I'm also looking forward to the upcoming *Iconica Ensembles *library. Which will add 50 GB additional ensemble sample content. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## Wolf68

...are there any user Demos to be heard yet...demonstrating the strings?


----------



## arvfur

Here's Elgars Nimrod, all Iconica. Just entered the notes and dynamics as in the score:

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/iconica_nimrod_mp3-320-kbps-mp3.15058/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## dcoscina

arvfur said:


> Here's Elgars Nimrod, all Iconica. Just entered the notes and dynamics as in the score:
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/iconica_nimrod_mp3-320-kbps-mp3.15058/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Sounds actually very good. I wish the tempo was a little slower however. Just a personal preference.


----------



## pinki

Sounds great..well done. I think Iconica works..just too expensive. (ooh Nimrod always give me the creeps..Wagner for the Home Counties!)


----------



## arvfur

dcoscina said:


> Sounds actually very good. I wish the tempo was a little slower however. Just a personal preference.


Here is a slower version:

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/iconica_nimrod_slower_mp3-320-kbps-mp3.15060/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## Michael Antrum

I've got to say, if that is from just the score with dynamics and no mixing/reverb/processing then I think that sounds great too.

I'm not sure why people think this is over priced - It's a pretty comprehensive 150Gb library of Woodwinds, Brass, Strings and Percussion. With the exception the East West Stuff, where else are you going to get all that for £ 600 ?

I'm pretty much set now as regards libraries, but if I were just coming into this I would be very interested, particularly as there is a trial - and don't Steinberg allow you to re-sell ?

They should definitely sell the sections separately though - though I can see that Orchestral Tools might not want that to happen.


----------



## JamieLang

I am doing my 30 day trial...my first impression was that it sounded really wonderful....and having the VST3 inform Cubase of it's articulation needs...I didn't even GET to the note expression yet...and ran into...that there's no portamento on the strings? Seriously? Am I missing something? If so, I'll delete the 150gb and call this demo done. Am I missing something? Is it handled differently than having a separate articulation like most would?


----------



## muziksculp

JamieLang said:


> there's no portamento on the strings? Seriously? Am I missing something?



No, you are not missing something, they don't have portamento.


----------



## rocking.xmas.man

JamieLang said:


> .that there's no portamento on the strings?


there is no Portamento in there.
Maybe that's not a bad Thing. I've heard soooo many Mockups lately that have been completely ruined by Portamento transitions


----------



## muziksculp

rocking.xmas.man said:


> I've heard soooo many Mockups lately that have been completely ruined by Portamento transitions



I agree.


----------



## JamieLang

I can't work without it. But, then I do pop/R&B strings...the Iconica section size was already a little too big, but frankly--I LOVE the VST3 integration...I'd been waiting around for SOMEONE to support it...I guess Steinberg got tired of waiting, too. I was excited the I could spend the money to sit it inside my 2010 Cubase6. Where, I'll add for the record, it worked marvelously. Grabbed the articulations I set up to auto make an articulation map...per note CC and pitchbend…


----------



## Fry777

@muziksculp Were you able to finish your track ?


----------



## muziksculp

Fry777 said:


> @muziksculp Were you able to finish your track ?



Unfortunately, no. I have been out of town, so I haven't been able to continue working on the Iconica demo track. I will continue working on it as soon as I'm back home in my studio.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

the season of the orchestral sketch tool.


----------



## Akarin

Zoot_Rollo said:


>




Currently downloading Ensembles. I love Iconica. This is a great addition.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Akarin said:


> Currently downloading Ensembles. I love Iconica. This is a great addition.



did you get the clip-on man-bun?


----------



## Akarin

Zoot_Rollo said:


> did you get the clip-on man-bun?



Just awesome. So lush.


----------



## JEPA

does iconica works on Logic Pro X?


----------



## Akarin

JEPA said:


> does iconica works on Logic Pro X?



I don't know. It _should_ as HALion is available as AU.


----------



## Akarin

Here's a track I've made for a virtual orchestration contest using nearly only Iconica (I've layered the low brass with Albion One towards the end): 



It really is a fantastic library. I absolutely love working with it.


----------



## Michael Antrum

Thanks for posting this. It does have a nice tone, and seems pretty cohesive. I'm pretty certain that had I been in the market for a whole orchestra, I would have ordered Iconic. However, like many on her, I've got more than I need anyway.

I've never really used Halion - how do you find it ?

When it was launched I remember many people posting that it was overpriced, which I could not get my head around. I think the whole Sections and Players was around £ 500 at launch - for the whole orchestra. I think the only better deal around is from East West.

Thanks for posting.


----------



## Akarin

Michael Antrum said:


> Thanks for posting this. It does have a nice tone, and seems pretty cohesive. I'm pretty certain that had I been in the market for a whole orchestra, I would have ordered Iconic. However, like many on her, I've got more than I need anyway.
> 
> I've never really used Halion - how do you find it ?
> 
> When it was launched I remember many people posting that it was overpriced, which I could not get my head around. I think the whole Sections and Players was around £ 500 at launch - for the whole orchestra. I think the only better deal around is from East West.
> 
> Thanks for posting.



HALion is quite different than Kontakt and needs a bit of getting used to it. I find it very flexible and the way you can choose how much RAM to allocate to it and how much should be streamed from disk rather than loaded is very convenient. On the downsides, you can't purge samples as you can in Kontakt so a full HALion based cue is taking way much more RAM than it should. Note that I'm using the free edition that comes with Cubase/Iconica so I don't know if the full version offers purging.

Iconica is a really different beast than EWHO. I have it too. EWHO is definitely not balanced between sections and even between different articulations of the same instrument. It requires a ton more work than Iconica but I think the end result will sound better in the hands of a capable orchestrator/MIDI programmer due to the sheer number of capabilities and articulations that Iconica doesn't have.

As for the price, all things considered, Iconica may seem like a huge chunk of money but yes, factor in that you get a whole orchestra, recorded by OT, completely balanced and very easy to work with. You even have things like Flute I and Flute II on separate patches which even EWHO doesn't have. There are libraries out there that cost the same for just one instrument (yeah, I'm looking at you, Afflatus.)

All in all, I'm still in the early stages of my path to learn composition, MIDI, and all things orchestral (been at it for less than a year, you can hear that from my track) and Iconica removes the need for me to try and match and balance libs from different vendors so that I can concentrate on learning how to write rather than fiddle with technical things. And it will sound decent out of the box.


----------



## arvfur

Akarin said:


> Note that I'm using the free edition that comes with Cubase/Iconica so I don't know if the full version offers purging


You can purge in Halion 6 using RAM-save function.


----------



## Akarin

arvfur said:


> You can purge in Halion 6 using RAM-save function.



Thanks. Unfortunately, it's like the Play engine: it's an "after the fact" purging. Meaning that you need to have everything fully loaded, play the part and then unload the unused samples. Kontakt first unloads everything and then loads the required samples as you play. That means you can have a purged instrument ready to play but not consuming any RAM.


----------



## RogiervG

arvfur said:


> Here's Elgars Nimrod, all Iconica. Just entered the notes and dynamics as in the score:
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/iconica_nimrod_mp3-320-kbps-mp3.15058/][/AUDIOPLUS]




Amazing sounding... Especially in the higher registers/strings. Very realistic (like in a real orchestra setting.. not the hollywood polished sound)


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

I'm still not feelin' the love with Iconica. I have yet to hear a demo that sounds convincing.


----------



## RogiervG

Wolfie2112 said:


> I'm still not feelin' the love with Iconica. I have yet to hear a demo that sounds convincing.


convincing? depends on what you are after. the lush polished movie sound, or the more classical sound.
Iconica sounds more like the latter imho. (and does it quite well, beyond what i'd expected)
but it lack the polished movie sound. (blockbuster lushness).


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

I think it's the lack of realism, to me it sounds like a mid-grade string library, even when I listen to the "pro" demos in the Steinberg videos.


----------



## RogiervG

Wolfie2112 said:


> I think it's the lack of realism, to me it sounds like a mid-grade string library, even when I listen to the "pro" demos in the Steinberg videos.



Hmm.. when used properly it sounds stunningly real (melodical and articulative):


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

RogiervG said:


> Hmm.. when used properly it sounds stunningly real (melodical and articulative):




Nice!!! If people would produce their VI comparison videos with proper programming, it would show a libraries' true capabilities. This is a perfect example.


----------



## ShikiSuen

arvfur said:


> You can purge in Halion 6 using RAM-save function.


Would you please tell me exactly what the RAM-save function you are talking about?
You can quote the contents from its Steinberg official online manual, so I can see whether we are thinking of similar thing. One of my friend in Beijing who tried to add hundreds of Iconica VST instances to his Nuendo template, but he got 128GB ram filled up. He read your post and he wants to ask about this, but his English expression is not good. I will help him translating your reply to him.


----------



## Geomir

Many experienced users here mention that EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Platinum sounds much better (more realistic) than Steinberg Iconica! Is this true also for the GOLD Edition of EWHO?

Just to add here that for me 16-bit is not a problem, because in the end my songs are going to end as 320kbps MP3 files, which is already lower quality than 16-bit (i.e. Audio CD). Also the "only one" mic is not a problem for me, because it is exactly what I need (not extremely wet like EWQLSO Gold, but not extremely dry as well)! And if it's a little drier than I need, I can always add some convolution reverb, PLAY 6 offers many options for this.

So my question has only to do about sound quality and realism! Do you believe that even the Gold Edition of EWHO can beat Steinberg Iconica?

And yes, the timing of my question is not random, I am asking this now because EWHO Gold Edition is on sale in VSTBuzz (240 euros)!


----------



## markleake

Geomir said:


> Many experienced users here mention that EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Platinum sounds much better (more realistic) than Steinberg Iconica! Is this true also for the GOLD Edition of EWHO?
> 
> Just to add here that for me 16-bit is not a problem, because in the end my songs are going to end as 320kbps MP3 files, which is already lower quality than 16-bit (i.e. Audio CD). Also the "only one" mic is not a problem for me, because it is exactly what I need (not extremely wet like EWQLSO Gold, but not extremely dry as well)! And if it's a little drier than I need, I can always add some convolution reverb, PLAY 6 offers many options for this.
> 
> So my question has only to do about sound quality and realism! Do you believe that even the Gold Edition of EWHO can beat Steinberg Iconica?
> 
> And yes, the timing of my question is not random, I am asking this now because EWHO Gold Edition is on sale in VSTBuzz (240 euros)!


I don't have Iconica to compare to, but the strings and brass in the Hollywood series are very good, right up with the best. They have a fairly big learning curve compared to some other libs, and if you are fine with using the Play engine, all is good.

However, I have them (EWHO), and hardly use them, because I have other libraries that are just as good, I struggled with them usability wise, and I eventually got fed up with Play. Some people love these libs, some hate them.

The percussion in Hollywood is fine, but I think there are better alternatives out there, and the Gold version I wouldn't recommend as you really want the extra mics for the percussion especially.

The woods in EWHO are not good, except for maybe as just in the deep background. They are not instruments you want exposed at all in your tracks.

I think Iconica would be fine, from the demos and walk-through, but you would loose out a bit given the quality and greater flexibly of strings and brass in EWHO.

It's all personal choice though, and which library you think suits you better in terms of sound and usability/workflow.


----------



## Geomir

@markleake

Thank you for your valuable help! I consider myself not experienced enough to struggle to make EWHO Gold sound so nice! It seems that Iconica is easier to use and sound very nice right out of the box!

Also my big love will always be the woodwinds, and it seems that everyone says that EWHO totally fails at the woodwinds sections! Exactly the opposite happens with Steinberg Iconica: Everyone says how beautifully recorded are all the woodwind instruments (see Orchestral Tools)! 

So I am leaning to Iconica right now! Also a plus is that it is perfectly combined with Iconica Ensembles, which offer some very nice sounding ready-to-use full orchestral patches!

Again thank you for your help! Being low budged right now, searching for a full orchestral bundle library, I cannot afford a "wrong choice"! But it is just so f. difficult to ignore the amazing price of EWHO Gold right now as we speak!


----------



## Michael Antrum

Remember - If you have an e-licencer you can download a full 30day trial, and currently there is 30% off sections and players until Sept 5th.

I'm pretty sure that you can re-sell it too..... 

Whilst I have EWHO, and I love the string and brass, I think I'll be getting a lot more use from Iconica.

I've recently bought it and although I've only had a small amount of time to play with it, I'm very happy with what Ive seen/heard so far....

My best advice - Get the trial - even if you have you buy an e-licencersto test it with and make up your own mind. If you are going EWHO - you really ned to go platinum.


----------



## Geomir

Michael Antrum said:


> Remember - If you have an e-licencer you can download a full 30day trial, and currently there is 30% off sections and players until Sept 5th.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that you can re-sell it too.....
> 
> Whilst I have EWHO, and I love the string and brass, I think I'll be getting a lot more use from Iconica.
> 
> I've recently bought it and although I've only had a small amount of time to play with it, I'm very happy with what Ive seen/heard so far....
> 
> My best advice - Get the trial - even if you have you buy an e-licencersto test it with and make up your own mind. If you are going EWHO - you really ned to go platinum.



I am not sure about that, especially with Iconica! I remember people being disappointed by the inability to sell it!

I know about the demo trial (150GB download) and I know about this summer sale ending soon! I wish it was 50% or 60% sale though! Then I would stand a chance to buy it! I think Steinberg must hire some employees from EastWest Sales department and let them do the job as they know!  

Do you own also the "Ensemble Iconica" Library also? Does it deliver? The demos sound impressive (LOL as always)! Does it combine perfectly with "Iconica Players"?

About EWHO, I would be lying if I try to tell that you are wrong! I mean - by definition - Platinum is the best choice! And - especially during sales - the price difference is not even big! The only think that's big is its size! I am sure that Gold would run much better in my PC, and my 1TB SSD would still continue breathing! Also 16-bit is not a big problem for me, and the 1 mic is also OK (and less complicated) for me! I would NOT say the same thing if we were talking about EWSO! There 1 mic only is a huge problem because it's too wet! But in EWHO I think they chose a very nice, neutral not too wet not too dry mic! And right now Gold costs less than $300!

By the way, is the Convolution Reverb in Play 6 passable? I mean, does it do the basic job?


----------



## Michael Antrum

I do have the ensemble library too - bought it during a previous 30% off sale.

The ensembles are useful for sketching, but some of the patches are not my cup of tea - and to my ears a bit artificial sounding. So I've found the ensembles a bit of a mixed bag, but for what I paid for them I'm reasonably content.

If you are considering an ensemble library then there are other choices out there I would pick first if it were my only one.

I've never used the Play 6 convolution reverb - so I can't help there. I bought a copy of Spaces before I used the EWHO, and it's so good I've used it for most things ever since.

I doubt you'll see Iconica on a 50% sale though....

BTW, Iconica is balanced - making it much easier to get cracking.

EWHO is a fabulous piece of kit - but it takes a lot more time and effort to use. With Brass & Strings this effort it worth it. Percussion & Woodwinds far less so.


----------



## Geomir

Michael Antrum said:


> I do have the ensemble library too - bought it during a previous 30% off sale.
> 
> The ensembles are useful for sketching, but some of the patches are not my cup of tea - and to my ears a bit artificial sounding. So I've found the ensembles a bit of a mixed bag, but for what I paid for them I'm reasonably content.
> 
> If you are considering an ensemble library then there are other choices out there I would pick first if it were my only one.
> 
> I've never used the Play 6 convolution reverb - so I can't help there. I bought a copy of Spaces before I used the EWHO, and it's so good I've used it for most things ever since.
> 
> I doubt you'll see Iconica on a 50% sale though....
> 
> BTW, Iconica is balanced - making it much easier to get cracking.
> 
> EWHO is a fabulous piece of kit - but it takes a lot more time and effort to use. With Brass & Strings this effort it worth it. Percussion & Woodwinds far less so.



Wow Iconica Ensembles would be really affordable with a 30% sale! I understand it's not the best sounds you have ever heard in your life, but for a not-so-experienced user like me, don't you believe that it sounds better than, say, if I mix myself Full Strings + Full Brass + Woodwinds in 3 different patches? Isn't it true that in most of these ensembles products, the musicians are actually playing at the same time, sitting in the ideal positions? And isn't it less power hungry to have one patch of a full symphony than, 5-10 (or many more) patches of violins, violas, celli, honrs, trombones, bassoons, etc...?

I am struggling to save money to buy my first semi-pro full orchestral library (including the extra sketch library for fast workflow and nice inspirations - come on, this "Pirates" ensemble of Iconica Ensembles is really catchy!), and I think a bonus for Iconica Players is the fact that it can be "naturally combined" with Iconica Ensembles!

Isn't the above a more "sure" combination, than say (just a random not-so-expensive example will follow) combining Spitfire Studio Orchestra Core (or EWHO Gold) with Sonuscore the Orchestra?

Crap, I am sure we will need a few years to see Iconica with a 50% sale, it's a nice new product, and already very reasonable priced!

I know, EWHO gets all this respect, but aside from the simplicity to use more modern libraries and have nice results much faster, there is another factor that I am leaning towards Iconica Players! It's because I love woodwinds, and as far as I know (from EVERYONE, now including also you), woodwinds are the worst part of EWHO, and at the same time the best part of Iconica Players (which is anyway a balanced and easy-to-use library as you mentioned)...

Thank you so much for your input! It's nice to have all this help from people who have actually used these products! So now I can tell you my secret: It's NOT that I am LAZY to download 150GB and try it myself, it's the fact that I am afraid to have this experience, because I am sure that I am going to love it (unless you tell me that Iconica sounds worse that Garritan Personal Orchestra 5!!!!), and it's almost impossible that I can afford it before the sale expires...


----------



## synergy543

Geomir said:


> I am sure we will need a few years to see Iconica with a 50% sale



Iconica is on sale for 50% off until Dec 9 with the code "BLACKDEALS2019"


----------



## Geomir

synergy543 said:


> Iconica is on sale for 50% off until Dec 9 with the code "BLACKDEALS2019"


I know, thanks for the information though! In the end they did it faster than expected!


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Just trying out the demo of Sections and Players - Every Single patch "Repetitions" causes Pops and Clicks for me- and i dont think it did that when i first downloaded it at the weekend (Had the Flu Since then so maybe just going mad! ) I did update to the newest Halion Sonic SE, so that might be it. 

If you have this library or the demo, please try the REP patches and see if you get clicks and pops with latest Halion SE. All other stuff seems to work


----------



## Michael Antrum

Paul Jelfs said:


> Just trying out the demo of Sections and Players - Every Single patch "Repetitions" causes Pops and Clicks for me- and i dont think it did that when i first downloaded it at the weekend (Had the Flu Since then so maybe just going mad! ) I did update to the newest Halion Sonic SE, so that might be it.
> 
> If you have this library or the demo, please try the REP patches and see if you get clicks and pops with latest Halion SE. All other stuff seems to work



Mac or PC ?


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Michael Antrum said:


> Mac or PC ?


Sorry PC. Told ya i was going Mad. Its probably something i have done, but i cant think right !


----------



## newman

Paul Jelfs said:


> Just trying out the demo of Sections and Players - Every Single patch "Repetitions" causes Pops and Clicks for me- and i dont think it did that when i first downloaded it at the weekend (Had the Flu Since then so maybe just going mad! ) I did update to the newest Halion Sonic SE, so that might be it.
> 
> If you have this library or the demo, please try the REP patches and see if you get clicks and pops with latest Halion SE. All other stuff seems to work


Let us know if the clicks get sorted. I was considering this library for a Win10 laptop.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Well they did get sorted - By re downloading all 3 of the Iconica Libraries - Ouch 150gb . 

It must of been something i did , but no idea how and why it just affected those patches . 

I would get a demo of the Library ASAP , and if you like it buy before it goes to full price on monday. 

Overall its an excellent , very playable library, that sounds really good out of the box, and together. 

Some of the Ensemble patches are very inspiring and sound good enough to use in a mix tbh. 

While i have been playing with it , i also like the Halion Sonic SE player. If you have Halion Sonic 3, then you get to use their built in Arpgeggiator with the libraries , and it is very powerful. Starting to prefer alot of what it does (Halion) to Kontakt, things just seem slicker and easier to do. Very easy to set up Multis with Keys zones, +8va on the trumpets . or maybe Brass stabs above 70 Velocity. You will see what i mean if you check out the demo. 

You aint got long though to decide. At around 430 for everything, it seems like great value for an all in one on a second machine.


----------



## Michael Antrum

I'm a fan, and it works great on my Laptop (Razer Blade 15" i7/64gb/2Tb Nvme. Glad you got the pops sorted out. For the money I'd really pleased and I only got a 30% discount on it earlier this year !

(I'm a recent refugee from Apple.....)


----------



## Akarin

Paul Jelfs said:


> Sorry PC. Told ya i was going Mad. Its probably something i have done, but i cant think right !



Check your preload value in HALion. Load as much as you can in the RAM.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Hi Akarin, Yeh i did try that and everything else - in the end i just dowloaded it again and now it all works fine !! 

So strange. Lovely Library though.


----------



## newman

I recenty installed Steinberg Iconica Opus as my first orchestral VI. Install has a few steps and Steinberg's documentation is a bit scattered. So I thought this post might help.

There are some in-depth reviews on Youtube. But Steinberg has been offering a 30 day free demo as noted above for those who are on the fence.

*1 minute highlight of the install process. *Install is relatively simple and quick:


A few links and videos I found helpful that might save someone a few minutes:

*How to install Iconica sound libraries and HALion* Sonic (SE)








How to install Iconica sound libraries for HALion and HALion Sonic (SE)


This article describes how to install Iconica sound libraries for HALion, HALion Sonic and HALion Sonic SE. 1. Preparing download and installation Download and install the Steinberg Download Assis...




 helpcenter.steinberg.de





*User manuals in PDF*








Iconica Opus Documentation


Iconica Opus: Get quick and easy access to all the relevant manual resources on steinberg.help.




steinberg.help












HALion Sonic SE 3 Documentation


HALion Sonic SE 3: Get quick and easy access to all the relevant manual resources on steinberg.help.




steinberg.help





Install required the *Steinberg elicenser dongle* to run (~25$). The FAQ and embedded video are helpful.








eLicenser Control Center - Lizenzmanagement


⬇ eLicenser Control Center herunterladen Über das eLicenser Control Center Das eLicenser Control Center ist ein Dienstprogramm, mit dem sich Musiksoftware-Lizenzen unterschiedlicher Hersteller komf...




www.steinberg.net





*20m tutorials of Iconica*. This site has other Steinberg tutorials



The following are supplemental sources you might safely ignore

Steinberg Download Assistant to download the files.








Steinberg - Creativity First


Steinberg Download Assistant




www.steinberg.net





Steinberg Library Manager instructions (this installs with HALion)





Steinberg Library Manager


The standalone Steinberg Library Manager application that is installed together with your Steinberg DAW or plug-in allows you to register and manage your VST Sound libraries.




steinberg.help





Software/license activation (how to use activation codes)








Software/license activation (how to use Activation Codes)


What does Activation mean? Any Steinberg software needs to be activated by downloading and storing the required license. The Activation is done in the utility eLicenser Control Center that is bein...




helpcenter.steinberg.de





Download Access Code FAQ








Download Access Code FAQ


<p><span class="wysiwyg-font-size-x-large">Thank you for purchasing Steinberg software!</span></p> <p>You've received a Download Access Code with which you c...




helpcenter.steinberg.de





Register at MySteinberg


Steinberg ID



Steinberg forums








Steinberg Forums


A place to discuss and assist with Steinberg products and services.




www.steinberg.net


----------



## newman

I recently installed Steinberg Iconica Opus as my first orchestral VI. I have several piano VIs so am not completely clueless on music software but am a novice on the orchestral world.

Opus includes: Iconica Ensembles, Iconica Sections & Players, Halion Sonice SE3 (player)

After a few hours of playing, I find Iconica is inspiring and a lot of fun to noodle on. Overall, I like the sound of the instruments, the room, and how they fit together. This is a full orchestra so I can try to focus on music making and reduce GAS.


----------



## newman

I will try to provide some preliminary insight into low-latency performance of Iconica on an older laptop as I have seen this question pop up on the forums several times. I have only been noodling on Iconica for a few hours, playing half-dozen tracks simulatenously live in HALion but have not tried this with more tracks in a DAW.

I am using a Dell XPS laptop (Skylake i5 6300HQ, 32GB RAM, fast 1TB nvme SSD) with a RME BabyFace Pro interface. This has most of the low-latency tweaks I can think of (disabled c-states, etc.). I can run piano VIs live all day at 44.1KHz/64 buffer with virtually no dropouts. 

With Iconica, I have tried layering half-dozen instruments in HALion and play live at 44.1KHz/256 buffer with no crackles; buffers of 128 are borederline but frankly crackly at the inception of some notes so irritating. I have tried tweaking some settings in HALion. I have not tried Iconica in a DAW yet with more tracks so the buffers will rise. The instruments each load in a few seconds but that is helped by a very fast, very empty SSD (AData SX8200 Pro). 

The Iconica instruments were fine to play live with the 256 buffer IMHO and the latency did not bother me.

So, I would guess, without pushing the limits much, Iconica might work OK for light sessions with a few tracks on a modern powerful laptop with a lot of RAM, a higher-end nvme drive running x4, some performance tweaks, and good ASIO drivers (e.g RME). This will vary by user and I will update in the future if my opinion changes relating to performance on my XPS laptop.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I thought this video might be useful to post here, showing Steinberg's *Iconica* Orchestral Library :


----------



## ZeroZero

Hi Have any of you guys developed an Iconica Template for Cubase, that your willing to share?


----------



## Michael Antrum

ZeroZero said:


> Hi Have any of you guys developed an Iconica Template for Cubase, that your willing to share?



There is a template and a demo file you can download on the Steinberg Website - though for the life of me I cannot find it - I remember stumbling upon it a while ago . I downloaded it on my desktop, but I'm stuck in a hotel in London at the moment, so I can't tell you the file name (in case you could do a search for it).

I'd have a good search around the Steinberg website it I were you....


----------



## Paul Jelfs

There is also one for Dorico 3 but not official yet


----------



## ZeroZero

Michael Antrum said:


> There is a template and a demo file you can download on the Steinberg Website - though for the life of me I cannot find it - I remember stumbling upon it a while ago . I downloaded it on my desktop, but I'm stuck in a hotel in London at the moment, so I can't tell you the file name (in case you could do a search for it).
> 
> I'd have a good search around the Steinberg website it I were you....



Had a good search did not really know where to look. Entered "template" into search bar - no results. If you have a link it would be appreciated (non dorico template) , otherwise I build myself

Thanks

Z


----------



## newman

It seems something is in the works.








Iconica Template


I noticed in some of Anthony’s new videos that his computer contained an Iconica Template. Did that happen when he installed Iconica? Did he make it himself? Or is Anthony the Team Member who is working on future compatibility between Dorico and Iconica fro a future upgrade? (Just my...




www.steinberg.net





Some Iconica expression maps for Dorico








Expression Maps for Dorico 3.5+


Contents EastWest Hollywood Strings BBC SO Spitfire Solo Strings VSL Synchron Strings Iconica Sections and Players Embertone’s Joshua Bell violin EWQL Brass In this post I’ll give an overview of the process of creating Expression Maps for Dorico 3.5. Some of the following may also be...




www.steinberg.net


----------



## ZeroZero

newman said:


> It seems something is in the works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iconica Template
> 
> 
> I noticed in some of Anthony’s new videos that his computer contained an Iconica Template. Did that happen when he installed Iconica? Did he make it himself? Or is Anthony the Team Member who is working on future compatibility between Dorico and Iconica fro a future upgrade? (Just my...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.steinberg.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some Iconica expression maps for Dorico
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Expression Maps for Dorico 3.5+
> 
> 
> Contents EastWest Hollywood Strings BBC SO Spitfire Solo Strings VSL Synchron Strings Iconica Sections and Players Embertone’s Joshua Bell violin EWQL Brass In this post I’ll give an overview of the process of creating Expression Maps for Dorico 3.5. Some of the following may also be...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.steinberg.net



I had already spotted these, the threads are old and one is about expressions maps not templates. I am in the middle of creating one and could post it here. 
not sure how well templates travel, for example my samples are on an F drive


----------

