# Who Really Created The 'Inception' BRAAAM? D.James - this is for you! :)



## RiffWraith (Nov 14, 2013)

Interesting read:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/who-really-created-the-inception-braaam-composer-mike-zarin-sets-the-record-straight-20131113 (http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/ ... t-20131113)


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## Lex (Nov 14, 2013)

What a great read, thanks Riff.

alex


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## korgscrew (Nov 15, 2013)

Interesting article. Whats more interesting are the comments.


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## G.R. Baumann (Nov 15, 2013)

If you fart into a ziplock bag and put the bag into a deep freezer, wait a few years, defrost it in a microwave and...

>8o 

OK, let me start again.

18 minutes and 21 seconds into the credits...

Ziplock Fart created and defrosted by Joe Soap

18 minutes and 25 seconds into the credits...

Original Fart by Edward Jonothan "Sicko" Hahnepopel-Schlotterbeck III

18 minutes 27 seconds into the credits...

Ziplock bags by Dowchemical

...


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## germancomponist (Nov 15, 2013)

And here is another one: http://www.theshiznit.co.uk/feature/trailer-trend-rise-of-the-braaahhms.php


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## aaronnt1 (Nov 15, 2013)

I don't understand the obsession with a 'sound'. It's a sound effect, that's it, why all the praise and why is it considered iconic? Buy Omnisphere and you'll hear thousands of better sound effects...


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## woodsdenis (Nov 15, 2013)

Sorry Gunther that link is just lazy and incoherent nonsense, its a f***ing Klaxon in the the "Planet of the Apes" trailer. linking it to braams is absurd.

Note to anyone reading this who is older than 10 y.o. low ominous drones have signified danger or impending danger in movies for decades.

Also in "trailer3" the Zach Hemsey one, which really popularized it , it is clearly not the same as trailer 1 and 2. A minor 3rd higher and different instrumentation.


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## Daniel James (Nov 15, 2013)

Lol this whole thing is so fucking stupid....Just seems like everyone is trying to take credit for it now...No I did it...No you didn't I did it. No but he copied me. No but he built it off of something I did here. 

I mean lets look at whats being claimed. "I invented the single hit sustained sound effect"....really? REALLY? lol xD People have been making single hit sound effects for years. Sure Inception made it popular, but when you see all this nonsense of people claiming they invented the whole concept is just silly.... and in all honesty who cares where the concept came from... AND laying claim to every single single hit sustain from that point on is just disingenuous. There are so many forms of the braaam, so many colours timbres and textures that we now call a braam that for any one person to say that they are responsible for it all is bordering on egotistical.

-DJ


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## germancomponist (Nov 15, 2013)

One thing is for sure: I will never use a Braaaahm in a trailer what I have to produce. It is outdated now!


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## Ed (Nov 15, 2013)

So what I got from this is... Hans ripped of Mike Zarin's idea for the Inception soundtrack.

Was that the interpretation I was meant to come away with?


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## synapse21 (Nov 15, 2013)

I think Daniel probably coined the term, "Braaaam". Isn't it immortalized now in Project Alpha?


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## Ed (Nov 15, 2013)

synapse21 @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> I think Daniel probably coined the term, "Braaaam". Isn't it immortalized now in Project Alpha?



Actually Im pretty sure the first time I heard the term "Braaaam" was from Hans *here *talking about it and before Dan came out with Alpha, but we know Dan had talked with Hans before that, so maybe he heard him say it before then. 

Before that, we had Hybrid Tools 1 which called them "MegaHorns". I think it was only when Hans started publically referring to them as Braaaam that we all decided that was its official name lol. 

Unless someone knows of an earlier use? Come on intrepid researchers, this is the kind of geeky investigative journalism the internet is famous for!


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## Daniel James (Nov 15, 2013)

Ed @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> synapse21 @ Fri Nov 15 said:
> 
> 
> > I think Daniel probably coined the term, "Braaaam". Isn't it immortalized now in Project Alpha?
> ...



I just went with Braaam because thats what everyone had started calling them  I am pretty sure I didn't invent it haha

And yes Ed I came away with the impression that the guy is saying everyone ripped off his idea for the single sound design hit. As I mentioned earlier the whole thing is so fucking dumb. It's ventured into petty territory.

-DJ


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## germancomponist (Nov 15, 2013)

The next theme of what we are talking about could be the overused trills from the new CineSamples string library...  (just kidding)


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## Ed (Nov 15, 2013)

Daniel James @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> And yes Ed I came away with the impression that the guy is saying everyone ripped off his idea for the single sound design hit. As I mentioned earlier the whole thing is so [email protected]#king dumb. It's ventured into petty territory.



Come on though, it is just dripping with delicious drama and we composers will argue about anything anyway, at least this has some sexy man meat to it. o=? 

Normal arguments on VI _(aside from "Abandon All Hope" ones which is what I think a good portion of the Off Topic topics should be sent to_) _ Is VSL recording style good? OMG DIE, JUST DIE YOU SCUM... VSL IS TOTALLY CRAP/ TOTALLY AWESOME_" Or the length of release sounds in Sable, I mean what kind of no life asshole would argue for pages and pages about how they could do with being a little longer and then start throwing a hissy fit about censorship and freespeech!? That guy really just needed to lie down and take some Xannax ....... :oops: :oops: :oops: :lol: Or _"DVZ... Holy crap does that suck or what?" YOU MEANY ASSHOLE!"_ ... "_Look yeh it is a bit mean to say its an expensive crappy sucky pile of poo but I mean is that really unfair??_".... "_OMG yes it is you evil scum I hope you die in a fire_",... or.... "_Hey this is my new product its $1000!_" .. "_WAT thats so expensive you suck, I hate you and your life_"..._ "ok ok ok ok ok maybe I will lower price by about 70%+ , and give money back guarantee ??_"..._"ok... i may buy it now, but Im watching you..._" or mainly its like..._"I like it, but FAAAKE I can tell because of the round robins/legato transitions_". Its to make up for lack of stimulation in our lives, from staring a screen all day. Thats my theory anyway. Then again this may all be me projecting about myself.

I want to hear Hans' side of this. We can't have an article claiming to be the full story without getting a full picture from all sides and have everyone make up their own minds. Its got to be fair and balanced, like FOX news.... :wink: 

There's also the other aspect completely seperate which is when Zach went publically mental (is calling it mental hyperbole?) at Steve Jablonsky for what he said was ripping off Mind Heist in one of the Transformers tracks. I didnt look too far into it, but I seem to recall Steve saying he didnt write that bit, cant remember what happened next.

Im glad that I probably won't get big enough to generate any drama myself. 

Thankfully I can always edit this post later if that comes back to bite me in the ass and deny all knowledge, and then claim its all 4chans fault, or at least some ghost writer did it for me so I throw my hands up and lay all the blame at some anonymous guy/girl that I will refuse to name because you know contracts and shit,


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## TheUnfinished (Nov 15, 2013)

Interesting interpretations of that article. I read it as the guy saying the braahm first came about with a track he made with others (whom he acknowledges) and he is saying that he is annoyed that Hans Zimmer has laid claim to it.

Now... that may not be true. But I don't read that article as him saying "It was me! It was me! Look at me!" He even acknowledges a form of it appeared in the Transformers trailer first.


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## korgscrew (Nov 15, 2013)

BBBRRRRAAAAHHHHHMMMMM

This thread is getting like the braaahhmmms

BBBRRRRAAAAHHHHHMMMMM

Repetitive

BBBRRRRAAAAHHHHHMMMMM


Will it end??

BBBRRRRAAAAHHHHHMMMMM

:wink:


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## synthetic (Nov 15, 2013)

Every marching band plays them all day long.


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## korgscrew (Nov 15, 2013)

http://youtu.be/G2jUhnCU9iA


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## Lex (Nov 15, 2013)

Daniel James @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> Lol this whole thing is so [email protected]#king stupid....Just seems like everyone is trying to take credit for it now...No I did it...No you didn't I did it. No but he copied me. No but he built it off of something I did here.
> 
> I mean lets look at whats being claimed. "I invented the single hit sustained sound effect"....really? REALLY? lol xD People have been making single hit sound effects for years. Sure Inception made it popular, but when you see all this nonsense of people claiming they invented the whole concept is just silly.... and in all honesty who cares where the concept came from... AND laying claim to every single single hit sustain from that point on is just disingenuous. There are so many forms of the braaam, so many colours timbres and textures that we now call a braam that for any one person to say that they are responsible for it all is bordering on egotistical.
> 
> -DJ



Stupid? Not sure who is stupid here.

The first inception teaser pretty much CEMENTED how 90% of the teasers and trailers are cut from the day it was released until today. Yes there was single hit designs before it, yes it started with what Bay did for Transformers campaign, but this teaser was the first that had that kind of braaam, that kind of tempo and more importantly that edit where the sound it self is doing accenting of cuts, instead of usual big percussion sounds, like it was until then.

Then we have Trailer2, and this one takes things even further. The Braam becomes more refined and articulated and it's coupled with a brilliant strings/zebra sequence and this little piece of music becomes an absolute blueprint for young (and not so young) composers who start doing this, only this, in endless variations, on everything they do. It's a very simple form that is unfortunately easy to copy, incredibly effective in adding a dramatic flare to anything it's slapped under and it's payed well. It went so far and for so long that composers like yourself get very defensive every time someone points out that you are essentially just "braaaming", and try to explain how it doesn't matter who did it first, how it is a style, how that's called hybrid scoring, and bunch of other idiotic concepts. The truth is very simple, when I'm "braaaming" and when you are "braaaming" we are just ripping inception trailers, and if Zarin, Bay, Zimmer and everyone else didn't come up with this cool concept we wouldn't be doing it. You would probably still doing Batman Begins sound a likes. Now, I agree with you 100% that "braaaming" can be very creative, and you can come up with very fresh sounding music that is still following the same formula (Tron and Battleship come to mind), and I love designing my own braaams same as you do, but unlike you I never forget that without hearing Inception marketing campaign I wouldn't be making them. So, calling guys who invented a concept that pretty much enabled you to be a professional composer stupid is quite frankly stupid.

And then there is Inception score which is a different beast totally. It's smart , gorgeous and a lesson to everyone on how to glue the picture and music on a big adventure/action movie. The funny thing is that the score itself doesn't really have braaams almost at all, it has more complex low brass sequence that is directly leaning to the slowed down Piaf track. But this is not as easy to copy as braaams from the marketing campaign, so "braaamers" stay away from it, plus the marketing clients are hungry for simple braams, not some brass writing anyhow.

For those who are exclusive "Braamers" the Inception campaign combined with Transformers score gave you the blueprint for everything you do. I am not debating if this is a good thing or a bad thing, it's a solid fact that you can be original and creative no matter what concept or approach you are using, but if somebody invented a concept that you are using for your own work don't call them stupid and give credit where it's due.

alex


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## Ed (Nov 15, 2013)

TheUnfinished @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> Interesting interpretations of that article. I read it as the guy saying the braahm first came about with a track he made with others (whom he acknowledges) and he is saying that he is annoyed that Hans Zimmer has laid claim to it.
> 
> Now... that may not be true. But I don't read that article as him saying "It was me! It was me! Look at me!" He even acknowledges a form of it appeared in the Transformers trailer first.



Matthew, come now, my glorious friend I know from the internet and sometimes in real life....

...There are implicit claims, and then are explicit claims. The former in your post, is implicit, the latter explicit. 

This quote kind of says it all, in the most passive aggressive way possible:



> _It’s not the not giving the credit, it’s taking credit where it’s not due," Zarin continued, about what perturbed him most through all of this, adding: “I’m a believer in truth, I’m a believer in fairness. It’s the non-truth that bothers me. It’s the not being fair and accurate that bothers me." Pressed as to why Zimmer may be owning the creation of BRAAAM, rather than sharing the spotlight with those who built it up, Zarin simply stated, "I don't know."_



Who knows what the truth is, but its clearly implying that Zimmer stole Mike Zarin's idea for Inception which you gotta admit did play a big part in it, and credited himself for the idea (_or at least, didnt mind someone assuming he made it_). Obviously my faith is in Hans because I pray to his Shrine every night to guide me through my life, so I have no choice but to assume every word of this guys claim is a damned filthy lie designed to make our glorious leader look bad. Therefore I hope we can find him and make him learn humility for such heinous disrespectful attacks against our savior. I hope he can repent, for he knows not what he does, and I am sure there is some good in him somewhere, Hans is in everyone and you just need to look for him. Don't fight it. Just repent and you will become a limitless being of light.


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## Ed (Nov 15, 2013)

korgscrew @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> http://youtu.be/G2jUhnCU9iA



This is a weird video. I don't remember this exact sound from the the soundtrack, and also, them calling it a "BWONG" makes me want to do a violence to the guy who made this video


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## KingIdiot (Nov 15, 2013)

ITT:

o/~ o=? o=<


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## Ed (Nov 15, 2013)

Lex @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> The first inception teaser pretty much CEMENTED how 90% of the teasers and trailers are cut from the day it was released until today. Yes there was single hit designs before it, yes it started with what Bay did for Transformers campaign, but this teaser was the first that had that kind of braaam, that kind of tempo and more importantly that edit where the sound it self is doing accenting of cuts, instead of usual big percussion sounds, like it was until then.



Yea its pretty important in the history of trailers. If they were to make a university class where they studied trailer music evolution over the years they should have a main part of the syllabus dedicated to "_WTF happened with the whole Inception thing and where it came from and what trends it caused after._" Maybe they could come up with a snappier title. 

The transformers being an inspiration is quite interesting. I have listened to that trailer from Transformers quite a bit and didnt actually connect the two. Its just really bare sound design, little to no sound at all evem, and the sound has only a passing resemblance to the BRAAAM really... and it had a context this time, the sound itself was part of the sound design of the Transformers (right?)



> Then we have Trailer2, and this one takes things even further. The Braam becomes more refined and articulated and it's coupled with a brilliant strings/zebra sequence and this little piece of music becomes an absolute blueprint for young (and not so young) composers who start doing this, only this, in endless variations, on everything they do. It's a very simple form that is unfortunately easy to copy, incredibly effective in adding a dramatic flare to anything it's slapped under and it's payed well.



The thing is... Its simple ideas that just work super well that end up getting lots of licences it seems. This one idea here is about as simple as you can get. Cool sound design, then BRAMMMM (of some type)...... coool sound design.... BAAAMMMM.... coool sond design...RISER... BRAAAAAAMMMM.... --- TITLE --- etc.... I mean thats really easy to cut to..... Im surprised no one though of it before tbh


I


> t went so far and for so long that composers like yourself get very defensive every time someone points out that you are essentially just "braaaming", and try to explain how it doesn't matter who did it first, how it is a style, how that's called hybrid scoring, and bunch of other idiotic concepts. The truth is very simple, when I'm "braaaming" and when you are "braaaming" we are just ripping inception trailers, and if Zarin, Bay, Zimmer and everyone else didn't come up with this cool concept we wouldn't be doing it. You would probably still doing Batman Begins sound a likes. Now, I agree with you 100% that "braaaming" can be very creative, and you can come up with very fresh sounding music that is still following the same formula (Tron and Battleship come to mind), and I love designing my own braaams same as you do, but unlike you I never forget that without hearing Inception marketing campaign I wouldn't be making them. So, calling guys who invented a concept that pretty much enabled you to be a professional composer stupid is quite frankly stupid


.


Yea I agree, not just because Im biased because I've done the same thing. Im try and take what they like about the bramm" and try and give them something more new...



> plus the marketing clients are hungry for simple braams, not some brass writing anyhow.



You know maybe I feel like I should intentionally write a shameless braaam track, just super "screw you I dont care if you hate me" and then see how well it does. If it becomes a best seller Im probably be going through a range of emotions I may have trouble processing. .



> For those who are exclusive "Braamers" the Inception campaign combined with Transformers score gave you the blueprint for everything you do. I am not debating if this is a good thing or a bad thing, it's a solid fact that you can be original and creative no matter what concept or approach you are using, but if somebody invented a concept that you are using for your own work don't call them stupid and give credit where it's due.



Still... I think those people will be one trick ponies if they can only deliver that. Eventually clients will start to realise they are bored of it, and want some more intelligent takes on it....Remind me of that other thread saying some music supervisor got Damage and Action Strings and now he is scoring some show... I mean ... okay, .,.. but how good can it possibly be? Clients happy with someone that is arguably marginally better and cheaper than licensing music or custom music clearly are going to run into a brick wall eventually or they don't really care to much about music in the first place. All it really means is real composers need to up our game if we are better than the software where "_one button press composition make fully produced composition come out_" products,. 

Think of it as a challenge I saw! A chance to motivated an acceleration in progress!


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## Ed (Nov 15, 2013)

KingIdiot @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> ITT:
> 
> o/~ o=? o=<



Since I am self censored enough and believe that the whole world revolves round me, I take this as a perfect insult against me and my family. So I curse you with my voodoo magic. If you do not repost this to 20 Face Book status' in 24 hours you will lose everything you care about in your life


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## KingIdiot (Nov 15, 2013)

Ed @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> KingIdiot @ Fri Nov 15 said:
> 
> 
> > ITT:
> ...



downvote.


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## Ed (Nov 15, 2013)

KingIdiot @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> downvote.



OH well King I hope you enjoy living on the street scrounging rotten remnants out of cat food tins in a bin.


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## Daniel James (Nov 15, 2013)

Lex @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> Daniel James @ Fri Nov 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol this whole thing is so [email protected]#king stupid....Just seems like everyone is trying to take credit for it now...No I did it...No you didn't I did it. No but he copied me. No but he built it off of something I did here.
> ...



I am in no way getting defensive about Braaaming, I was 'braaaming' before Inception was released, I still braaam to this day. Single hit sound designs or horn blasts have been around for ages! I am not saying braaaaming is fucking stupid I am saying that fighting to convince people you came up with the concept is fucking stupid. And then going on to say that I am only _enabled_ to be a professional composer because of people who are laying claim to big sound design hits is not only, to stay in format, stupid its fucking insulting. I have no doubt that composers such as myself who enjoy a good braam every now and again would still be composing today if Inception and Mind heist had never existed. I will concede that they certainly popularized it, which will inevitably lead to me using it _more_ as directors will request it....but to say my career is based around it becoming popular is absurd. And again while I concede that they popularized it I will restate my stance that this whole argument of people trying to lay claim to the concept of a single sound design hit, which was around before all of this...is indeed stupid.

-DJ

EDIT: I wrote this in 2008 for a film released in early 09. Braaaaming way before inception. So no....I don't owe my career to Inception https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkYJLp53B6o


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## Ed (Nov 15, 2013)

Hmm the plot thickens,. It all leads back to Daniel James. 

Ok, Dan, fess up who did you steal this from

Its going to lead back to Mozart or something I think.


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## maest (Nov 15, 2013)

DJ - didn't we just have this conversation less than a month ago? 

-Sam


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## germancomponist (Nov 15, 2013)

I am smiling and with Alex here!


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## Daniel James (Nov 15, 2013)

Ed @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> Hmm the plot thickens,. It all leads back to Daniel James.
> 
> Ok, Dan, fess up who did you steal this from
> 
> Its going to lead back to Mozart or something I think.



I know you mean this in jest but its exactly my point. No one stole it from anyone, its just one of those things that has evolved into the scene....Maybe I stole it from someone who once used a low brass sustain and a large impact...maybe he stole it from someone who used brass sustains and an impact, maybe he stole that from someone who did a single hit with a tail...but of course he stole the idea from that guy who hit a drum then just added a tail to it...but then that guy must have stolen it from that mammoth that hit a rock with its trunk. I am exaggerating a tad but can you see how pathetically pointless trying to lay claim to the concept is? Its just something that has evolved over time.

-DJ


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## Greg (Nov 15, 2013)

Just when I thought this topic was dead.. 

fuck sakes.


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## Lex (Nov 15, 2013)

Daniel James @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> EDIT: I wrote this in 2008 for a film released in early 09. Braaaaming way before inception. So no....I don't owe my career to Inception https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkYJLp53B6o



This just shows black on white what I'm talking about, sure you have very tasty low brass writing in the first third, but you don't have a single sound designed Braaam, you don't have any spicc/synth ostinato, on the other hand vast majority of your work I heard from 2009 and onward feature those elements, so please don't fool yourself that "braaam" plus ostinato was your inner composing instinct, it wasn't, you heard it in Inception campaign like everybody else...

alex


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## ProtectedRights (Nov 15, 2013)

woodsdenis @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> low ominous drones have signified danger or impending danger in movies for decades.



Lol

I name it the "C1 of doom" :D


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## KingIdiot (Nov 15, 2013)

o[]) 

Ive traded in TV for VI control reading this week.

the passion over things so vapid is better than the vampire diaries!! I only wish everyone was in there underwear as much as in that show...

wait a second...


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## RiffWraith (Nov 15, 2013)

Eh, guys.... I certainly didn't mean to start a war here. I posted this in a light-hearted, fun kinda way.....not a "jeez I am sick of these braaams!!!" kinda way. Just so you know.


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## Daniel James (Nov 15, 2013)

Lex @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> Daniel James @ Fri Nov 15 said:
> 
> 
> > EDIT: I wrote this in 2008 for a film released in early 09. Braaaaming way before inception. So no....I don't owe my career to Inception https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkYJLp53B6o
> ...



Well I certainly commend you on your detailed and intricate knowledge of my entire composition career but let me clear a a few things for you...Yes I had single sound design hits in 08...forgive me if I don't keep digging through my shitty previous work for public display. That film alone has plenty of the the Spic and Synth osinatios I clearly stole from Inception, 2 years after I wrote it...but of course you knew that too rite, I mean because you have heard all my works. But this topic isnt about Spiccatos, synth ostinatos or my body of works until today. Its about people claiming they invented the Braaaam.

Now like I mentioned earlier people can arrive at similar musical ideas from completely different musical backgrounds. I might be inspired to write one part based on something composer a did layering with something I liked from composer b and arrive somewhere new. But again back to the topic, As I clearly showed in 08 BRAAAAM was already a clearly used device, which I instinctively thought worked with the scene. Did I invent it...fuck no. And again its one of those musical elements that evolves over time until that point where someone uses it in a big way and claims they invented it. 

I love Braaaming, I love 16th Spiccatos and Synth Ostinatos...Things which were around long before they were popularized. Again I believe no one can lay claim to the concept as its evolved into the scene over time with people adding their own little take on it. I'm sure this guy got his idea based on something someone before did then he adpated it ...the hemsey takes that and adapts it, then hans takes it and adapts it..then someone else takes it and adapts it. It was evolving before Inception (as I even showed in my own fucking video) and it continues _to this day_ to evolve after Inception. Maybe in a few months someone will make an amazing Braaaaam which is nothing like the Inception Braaaam but we will have this whole conversation again because that guy might say he invented the concept of that particular type of Braaaam. Where people like you will say he stole it from Hans....Who Stole it from Hemsey...who stole it from the guy in the interview...Who stole it from something some composer did before...who stole that from composer x who based it on a technique from Bach...who stole it from a caveman...who stole it from a mammoth.

-DJ


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## Lex (Nov 15, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Lex @ Fri Nov 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel James @ Fri Nov 15 said:
> ...



Look, the fact that this pisses you off so much should tell you something. In any case, I am not trying to say that you are bad composer, all I'm saying is that I think it's not ok to call stupid those who's ideas you are using and are being inspired by, but I guess there lies the problem because you are trying very hard to convince me and yourself how this idea of single "braaam" over spicc sequence wasn't "invented" by Zimmer, Zarin and the rest involved, but it was man, and we liked it a lot and took it and started using it in our own work. 

Some evolve it forward as you say, others abuse it without adding anything new to it. You saying how you did braams and ostinatos years before Inception is the equivalent of Mr. Zimmer saying he never heard a John Carpenter score in his life.

alex


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## RiffWraith (Nov 15, 2013)

So, umm, anyway....

Who here thinks that these hits in the beginning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBJGk80ZKXo

... qualify as BRAAAAMS?

o[])


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## Lex (Nov 15, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> So, umm, anyway....
> 
> Who here thinks that these hits in the beginning
> 
> ...



I do, but they r the new wave braaams! lol
No seriously, last year and a half braaming started getting more creative and moved from MegaHorns flavour in to more electronic, dubsteppy waters...
Maybe these are from Alpha? :wink: 

alex


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## Lex (Nov 15, 2013)

This video is a great example. ALL of them are using CONCEPT INVENTED BY Zarin, Bay and Zimmer. But they also show varying degrees of innovation and originality in it's execution and design. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=830I9w7I7wM

I would love for someone to show me a trailer that is using this concept and was released before Inception teaser, or Bay's Transformers...

alex


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## Daniel James (Nov 15, 2013)

Lex @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Lex @ Fri Nov 15 said:
> ...



I am not calling the stupid in general terms I am saying its stupid they are laying claim to the concept in general. 

Like you said you accepted that the Braaam predates the Inception era, and thats my point, the fact that someone who predates the inception era is saying he invented the concept goes to show that evolution has taken place...the transformers thing doesn't really sound too much like what inception did, and I am sure there is a sound designer out there who will swear that the Transformers sounds clearly rip off something he did. The single hit sustain it to broad for anyone to lay claim to the concept itself as this whole interview is stating.

Surely you didn't listen to that track Riff just posted and go...pfft he is clearly ripping off Inception...but you will accept they are Braaaams. Which is a good example that Braaams can be totally different...as Hans' braams were different from Hemseys, His were different from the guy in teh interview and his, while most likely based on something he heard before, are different enough from Hemseys....Can you see my point...they are all so different that how can any one of them lay claim to the concept. 

Oh an I am not pissed about the whole braam thing. I was pissed how you derogatorily stated that the careers of me, and composers like me, would not have been enabled had it not been for the Braaaams and Batman scores.

And yes some of the Braaams in that track Riff posted were made by me and Aaron.

-DJ


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## Daniel James (Nov 15, 2013)

Its very possible that someone took something as simple as the music from the first Alien trailer...a single, repeating, sustained sound design and been inspired to borrow from that...maybe pitching it down a few, making it grittier...then someone borrows that pitches it down again, adds some brass... someone takes that and pitches it down again, adds a hit to it....You see where this is going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjLamj-b0I8

A Braaam is a single hit sound design. My argument is that the concept of that isnt original and was not 'invented' by anyone, but the evolution of different elements that have come before it. Just because someone made it popular, doesnt make them "INVENTORS OF THE CONCEPT" sure it may have adjusted the path of the braaam evolution but its most certainly not the concepts Inception point (excuse the pun)

-DJ


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## jleckie (Nov 15, 2013)

Brahms, Brahms, Brahms.

All this talk of Brahms.

I'm sure if he were alive today he'd be impressed!


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## Lex (Nov 15, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> I am not calling the stupid in general terms I am saying its stupid they are laying claim to the concept in general.
> 
> Like you said you accepted that the Braaam predates the Inception era, and thats my point, the fact that someone who predates the inception era is saying he invented the concept goes to show that evolution has taken place...the transformers thing doesn't really sound too much like what inception did, and I am sure there is a sound designer out there who will swear that the Transformers sounds clearly rip off something he did. The single hit sustain it to broad for anyone to lay claim to the concept itself as this whole interview is stating.
> 
> ...



I do see your point clearly I simply disagree with it. One can lay claim to an idea or concept if it is theirs. Others can embrace that idea and try to evolve it, give it new color, or use same color in a different concept and so on. That doesn't change the fact that the idea has an origin and a creator. 

So if we talk about a simple concept of making a teaser where a strong sustained "braaaam" goes on every cut then silence and so on till the end, you didn't invent it,Zarin did inspired by what Bay did before him (and he gives him credit for it), after that Zimmer comes in and turns it in to something even more new. You didn't invent neither of these concepts, if I am wrong I apologize. I do not know your entire composing career I simply assume that I would have noticed it in some trailer.

As for that video actually using Alpha, that's just golden, considering I was joking. So you get insulted, but here we have an intro that uses Zarin/Zimmer concept without doing anything new to it, and it's done by triggering sounds he bought form you.

So what is being evolved here exactly? 

alex


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## Ed (Nov 15, 2013)

I dont think the fact that they are" braams" thats issue, its how editors use them. Its just a really good way to accent edited, just like crazy hard hitting bang bang bang sound...


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## oxo (Nov 15, 2013)

i think he is the origin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Brahms

:mrgreen:


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## Lex (Nov 15, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Its very possible that someone took something as simple as the music from the first Alien trailer...a single, repeating, sustained sound design and been inspired to borrow from that...maybe pitching it down a few, making it grittier...then someone borrows that pitches it down again, adds some brass... someone takes that and pitches it down again, adds a hit to it....You see where this is going.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjLamj-b0I8
> 
> ...



Yes, braaam is a single hit sound design, but if you are using it in the same way Zarin used it (braaam, cut, silence, braam, cut, silence) then you are using HIS idea/concept. And you can kick and scream all you want but that's a simple fact. Now, of course you will use your own sound design (others will just buy the ones you sell them) but the idea on how you use it is not yours. Why is this soooooo hard for you to say/face?

I knew you'r gonna pull out Alien, cause that's the only thing close....Try finding any trailer that uses that concept between 2005 and 2009...

alex


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## Daniel James (Nov 15, 2013)

Lex @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > I am not calling the stupid in general terms I am saying its stupid they are laying claim to the concept in general.
> ...



I never once denied that Braaams are very popular these days because of Inception, Mind Heist etc....where there is a demand there is supply. We created those sounds because people wanted them...The don't sound like the Inception sound, I could jsut as easy say they were inspired by that work I did in '08. But thats not the point of the conversation...and while I admire your persistance in trying to make this personally about me an my work it doesnt change the fact that just because the braaaaam was popularised by the Inception era, it doesnt mean the concept was invented by them.

They can lay claim to the concept all they like, I am stating and defending the fact that their concept comes from a type of sound that had been evolving long before they did it. You could feesably by your reasoning lay claim to the concept of the braam when you change it even slighy....From now on anyone who layers brass with a synth and a fart noise will forever be imitating me as I created this concept... You see how dumb that sounds. So lets say Transformers is the first one to layer a drum hit with a sound design...they are now laying claim to that one tiny stream of many streams and saying thats their concept? well what about crediting the people who came before them with the ideas that lead to the ideas. Thats why I say its stupid to say you invented the whole concept out right when in fact there is a whole lot of concept coming from else where.

And again, I appreciate you constant attempts to attack me on a personal level but no I did not invent the concept, I never claimed to nor will I ever. I truly don't believe anyone did invent the concept. I believe it naturally evolved from lots of people experimenting until someone popularized it. I mean if the guy who did the Transformers one invented it...why were we not ripping it off or gushing over it back then? because it wasnt popularized...that doesnt make it any less of a braaam, nor do any of the experiments that pre date it.

Like I said earlier I am not getting insulted or pissed off at the topic only when you keep trying to debate the topic by attacking me personally.

-DJ


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## germancomponist (Nov 15, 2013)

Alex, relax!
We Pros have noticed all this! It isn't worth to discuss!


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## Daniel James (Nov 15, 2013)

Lex @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Its very possible that someone took something as simple as the music from the first Alien trailer...a single, repeating, sustained sound design and been inspired to borrow from that...maybe pitching it down a few, making it grittier...then someone borrows that pitches it down again, adds some brass... someone takes that and pitches it down again, adds a hit to it....You see where this is going.
> ...



Thats exactly my point! if you are conceding that Alien is infact 'close' in your words then you should also be able to accept that could also be considered *A* starting point of the Braaaam (although I imagine that idea was inspired by something before it). The *CONCEPT* is there. Now over time it will slowly evolve up until the point transformers comes out. So how can that guy now say HE invented the concept when there are examples from that far back.

And fuck no. You can't ask me to find another example after I already found one...just because you don't like that it serves my point. And why should I have to find one between 05 and 09 when you can clearly see my point in '79

-DJ


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## Lex (Nov 15, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Lex @ Fri Nov 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> ...



Well, if it evolved over time it would be easy to find in between stages wouldn't it? Like from 2005 to 2009? Unless, somebody just had an idea in 2009 , inspired by something done in '79?

But anyhow, you see this as personal attacks, which they aren't , it's a simple fact that you are the only one who said that it's stupid to claim an idea, and I'm the only one who openly disagrees, so here we are, providing cheap entertainment for the rest of the forum. Therefor we can stop, or continue in mails or private msgs....

alex


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## Greg (Nov 15, 2013)

WTF i just put my popcorn in the microwave.. now its over?!1 THIS CANT BEEEE


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## Daniel James (Nov 15, 2013)

Lex @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Lex @ Fri Nov 15 said:
> ...



No lets keep this public so that other people can chime in. I am fine with people disagreeing with me so long as they keep it about the topic and not me!

Yes I said claiming the concept was stupid, because I see it as a non argument. I think that because there are examples of what could be considered braams or at least inspiration for braaams that exist as far back as 79, saying that the idea is yours alone is stupid.

And yes of course someone can be inspired today by something done in '79 I could take that sustained, repeating, sound design element and instead of taking it in down pitched gritty direction which leads to the braaams of today I might take it in a higher softer way....but would I lay claim to being the inventor of the higher softer single sustained sound? Fuck no, its based on what came before....but if it what I created became popular and everyone started ripping off what I had made, and even said I want that Daniel James high pitched soft sound design element....STILL doesn't mean I INVENTED the concept, I just evolved it.

-DJ


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## Lex (Nov 15, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> No lets keep this public so that other people can chime in. I am fine with people disagreeing with me so long as they keep it about the topic and not me!
> 
> Yes I said claiming the concept was stupid, because I see it as a non argument. I think that because there are examples of what could be considered braams or at least inspiration for braaams that exist as far back as 79, saying that the idea is yours alone is stupid.
> 
> -DJ



No, they don't exist as far back as 79 cause we can't find any in between. I'll try to simplify even more. If Zarin makes Inception teaser inspired by Alien and Transformers trailers, that is inspired creation of something new. If dozens of composers buy Alpha and use braams same way Zarin did, they are not creating much and simply using concept Zarin created. You see, I am guessing the answer to that is _"..because he made the concept popular!!!"_ ...well exactly...Zarin didn't simply took what was already popular in 2009, he did something NEW

The idea that you push so hard how this concept slowly evolved would be cool if there was any proof for it. 

alex


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## Daniel James (Nov 15, 2013)

How about having a single hit with a bell. That could be considered an inspiration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S014oGZiSdI

Thats what I am saying. At what point to you stop crediting every concept you borrow from and start claiming it was all your idea.

-DJ


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## jleckie (Nov 15, 2013)

oxo @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> i think he is the origin:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Brahms
> 
> :mrgreen:



Ah- EXACTLY my point. Everything cool has been created by the Germans!


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## maraskandi (Nov 15, 2013)

If a tree falls in the fo... oh, wait for it.....


...what else is all this fireworks about?

It is just like music in this ecstatic thing going off..

and you have to be certainly careful here that..
any initiation, into a deep wisdom, is apt at first, to demotivate you.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFWCDfymmY4


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## ryanstrong (Nov 15, 2013)

The braaams always reminded me of Terminator 2...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eajuMYNYtuY


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## KingIdiot (Nov 15, 2013)

hipsters.


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## G.R. Baumann (Nov 16, 2013)

You are all wrong, all of you, every single one of you, ALL WRONG...:

:wink:


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## Guy Rowland (Nov 16, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> How about having a single hit with a bell. That could be considered an inspiration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S014oGZiSdI
> 
> Thats what I am saying. At what point to you stop crediting every concept you borrow from and start claiming it was all your idea.
> 
> -DJ



Lordy, I shouldn't post in this thread. But I'm closer to Matt's interpretation of that article - he wasn't saying "it was all me", he credited several others in the gradual evolution of the concept. In fact, you could argue that was his whole point - it wasn't any one person.

However, I do agree its all now pretty boring, especially as the whole thing has reached "more cowbell" proportions in public consciousness. Next....


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## G.R. Baumann (Nov 16, 2013)

Now seriously, farts in a ziplock bag, or the Eroica chord, you name it. 

I can hear a great many "quotes" or perhaps better to say "lean to's" in Hans Zimmer's music from Ravel to Wagner and back.

Do you see in the credits "inspired by Ravel or Wagner"? Nope!

Do Wagner's descendants come out like a Jack in a box slapping Hans over the head to give credit to Richard? Of course not!

I am certainly with Daniel here, and I too think this whole coming out like "It wasn't Hans it was me thing" is nothing but a sad reflection on the claimants thought process and self understanding and perhaps as well a sad reflection of the way this business, this industry works, isn't it cut throat stuff?


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## Saxer (Nov 16, 2013)

looking forward to the thread about the invention of a string section playing a 16th-note-ostinato.


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## Daniel James (Nov 16, 2013)

Saxer @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> looking forward to the thread about the invention of a string section playing a 16th-note-ostinato.



We have done that one a few times!!! I do enjoy a good passionate debate though 

-DJ


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## Lex (Nov 16, 2013)

G.R. Baumann @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Now seriously, farts in a ziplock bag, or the Eroica chord, you name it.
> 
> I can hear a great many "quotes" or perhaps better to say "lean to's" in Hans Zimmer's music from Ravel to Wagner and back.
> 
> ...



So what are you saying exactly? If Zarin made the first Inception teaser, making something that was embraced and then developed in to something even greater by Zimmer, he should just shut up about it? Say he didn't really make it, it evolved by it self, he just made it popular? I truly don't understand why is this itching some of you?

I mean, I don't pretend to know who did what first in this case, but there is a fundamental difference of opinion here because what you two are saying is "It doesn't matter who did it first", well to me it does, I don't even have to know who actually did it first, it's not about the name, it's about acknowledging the fact that it was someones IDEA. 

The hypocrisy of it all is that I didn't see either you or Daniel come over here and say _"..he invented the Braaam?? What a pompous, idiotic thing to say! He didn't invent shhit , he just made it popular!"_ when Mr. Zimmer said how it feels horrible to hear everybody stealing and misusing Inception Braaams. Why is that? Huh? 

alex


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## korgscrew (Nov 16, 2013)

What are we defining as a Braaam though?

There seems to be 2 schools of thought.

1) A low punch sound design hit.
2) An accent in a trailer.

Accenting cuts in a trailer has been around for donkeys as pointed out by DJ with the shining trailer.

So, does accenting a cut with a sound be it a bell, Cat noise, finger cymbal or a fart define it as a braaam?

I know the whole thread is about who invented the braam, but i genuinely believe it has evolved over time. Its just become a bit stale of late.

Fuck sake, its just a low accent! A Trailer is a trailer. To promote a film. I don't make my decision to see the film on how many breams there are in it, maybe it should have a braam rating! 

I don't see why people are getting so angry about it. Go use that anger to create some new breams! Or write some music.


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## Lex (Nov 16, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Thats what I am saying. At what point to you stop crediting every concept you borrow from and start claiming it was all your idea.
> 
> -DJ



At point where you have created something NEW and original out of all the various influences that inspired you. You know, like Dark Knight, like Inception, like Man of Steel, like all the Inception trailers....

alex


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## Daniel James (Nov 16, 2013)

> So what are you saying exactly? If Zarin made the first Inception teaser, making something that was embraced and then developed in to something even greater by Zimmer, he should just shut up about it? Say he didn't really make it, it evolved by it self, he just made it popular? I truly don't understand why is this itching some of you?



Well thats the thing...you are drawing a line with Zarin....who, as I keep saying, took ideas that I have demonstaited more than once now...'Embraced and then developed them into something greater' (to use your term) but is now trying to claim he came up with the concept and that is what I am saying is stupid...what is he laying claim to? The sustained sound design ...like in Alien? ....The impact with a sound on a cut? like The Shining trailer? Can you see what I am getting at now? there are people before Zarin who, if they so desired, could claim that he took the _concept_ (which is the banner you seem to rally behind) from them...which I why I am saying trying to say that claiming you invented the concept is just silly. There are to many stages where someone could claim the idea came from them...as Zarin is claiming of Hans



> I mean, I don't pretend to know who did what first in this case, but there is a fundamental difference of opinion here because what you two are saying is "It doesn't matter who did it first", well to me it does, I don't even have to know who actually did it first, it's not about the name, it's about acknowledging the fact that it was someones IDEA.



And THAT is the crux of my point. There are too many people who could legitimately say they inspired what became the popular braaaam because the *concept* borrowed/stole ideas from them. So I don't think there is one genious who went from nothing and went BRAAAAAM. Like I keep saying, it evolved through various stages, even upto and beyond Inception. Sticking a fork in Transformers and saying this is where it started is a bit silly considering all the various tracks we have posted that could easily be claimed to have been an earlier stage of the braaam



> The hypocrisy of it all is that I didn't see either you or Daniel come over here and say "..he invented the Braaam?? What a pompous, idiotic thing to say! He didn't invent shhit , he just made it popular!" when Mr. Zimmer said how it feels horrible to hear everybody stealing and misusing Inception Braaams. Why is that? Huh?



If Hans said something I disagreed with I would happily call him out on it and I am alost certain he would welcome the challenge. He is a guy with a strong opinion but so am I, if we disagree...we debate it. I havn't read the Hans interview but I imagine its not taking the same vein as Zarin saying 'He stole the idea from me I was the first to do it' I think even Hans would agree there were braaams before Inception...It sounds to me the intervew he did was along the same vein as the 16th note osinato thing with Batman where he is tired of people doing not just doing braaaams but pretending to be Hans doing braaaams. And like I say that isnt laying claim to inventing the braaam thats being irritated that people are imitating the way you do the concept. And going back to everything said before there are MANY forms of braaam that have come before and have gone on since. 

-DJ


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## Daniel James (Nov 16, 2013)

Lex @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Thats what I am saying. At what point to you stop crediting every concept you borrow from and start claiming it was all your idea.
> ...



Well thats a misleading set of examples because you are now referring to someones writing style and not a compositional concept. The copying of a sound track, which is a very specific collection of compositional techniques is alot less ambiguous when it comes to laying claim to it.

Braaams however are a composition concept. Which I am still saying evolved over time.

-DJ


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## Lex (Nov 16, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> If Hans said something I disagreed with I would happily call him out on it and I am alost certain he would welcome the challenge. He is a guy with a strong opinion but so am I, if we disagree...we debate it. I havn't read the Hans interview but I imagine its not taking the same vein as Zarin saying 'He stole the idea from me I was the first to do it' I think even Hans would agree there were braaams before Inception...It sounds to me the intervew he did was along the same vein as the 16th note osinato thing with Batman where he is tired of people doing not just doing braaaams but pretending to be Hans doing braaaams. And like I say that isnt laying claim to inventing the braaam thats being irritated that people are imitating the way you do the concept. And going back to everything said before there are MANY forms of braaam that have come before and have gone on since.
> 
> -DJ



_"Composer Hans Zimmer is the one credited for coming up with that noise, a noise that was then mixed into Zack Hemsey's "Mind Heist" music which became the iconic theme from the "Inception" trailer.

The noise has then showed up in trailers for practically every action movie of the past few years from "World War Z" and "Star Trek Into Darkness," to "Prometheus," "The Avengers," "Super 8," "Pacific Rim" and so many more.

Speaking with Vulture about his career, Zimmer bemoans the way the sound has been overplayed:

"Oh, it's horrible!. This is a perfect example of where it all goes wrong. That music became the blueprint for all action movies, really.

And if you get too many imitations, even I get confused!. By the time we got to The Dark Knight Rises, the studio sent over a trailer with that temp track, and they actually apologized for it.

They said, 'We put the Inception music in there because we didn't know what else to do, so could you guys maybe come up with something else?' So we came up with a trailer that was just a few lonely notes — it couldn't have been more opposite."_


source 
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/29577/ ... n-trailers


alex


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## Daniel James (Nov 16, 2013)

Lex @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > If Hans said something I disagreed with I would happily call him out on it and I am alost certain he would welcome the challenge. He is a guy with a strong opinion but so am I, if we disagree...we debate it. I havn't read the Hans interview but I imagine its not taking the same vein as Zarin saying 'He stole the idea from me I was the first to do it' I think even Hans would agree there were braaams before Inception...It sounds to me the intervew he did was along the same vein as the 16th note osinato thing with Batman where he is tired of people doing not just doing braaaams but pretending to be Hans doing braaaams. And like I say that isnt laying claim to inventing the braaam thats being irritated that people are imitating the way you do the concept. And going back to everything said before there are MANY forms of braaam that have come before and have gone on since.
> ...



That sounds to me like Hans is complaining that people are imitating the Inception soundtrack...not that he created the concept of the braaaam. Which is the point at hand here.

It is totally different to be temped with, or imitate, a specific track that has Braaaams in it (Like as Hans refers to the spesific Inception score).....than to lay claim to the compositional concept of the braaaam itself.

-DJ


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## FatPablo (Nov 16, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> > Well thats the thing...you are drawing a line with Zarin....who, as I keep saying, took ideas that I have demonstaited more than once now...'Embraced and then developed them into something greater' (to use your term) but is now trying to claim he came up with the concept and that is what I am saying is stupid...what is he laying claim to?
> >
> > -DJ



It's been said more than once now, and has also been dismissed as many times, that Zarin isn't really claiming that he invented some new type of sound and wants full credit for it. Zarin's problem with the whole thing is that many people worked on it and according to the article, it's implied that Zimmer is the one claiming it by not telling the whole story.

Just from the point of view of the article that Zimmer is claiming the sound as his creation, it seems like you're inadvertently making your case against Zimmer instead of Zarin, about how stupid it is to claim something that's already been done.


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## Lex (Nov 16, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> > And THAT is the crux of my point. There are too many people who could legitimately say they inspired what became the popular braaaam because the *concept* borrowed/stole ideas from them. So I don't think there is one genious who went from nothing and went BRAAAAAM. Like I keep saying, it evolved through various stages, even upto and beyond Inception. Sticking a fork in Transformers and saying this is where it started is a bit silly considering all the various tracks we have posted that could easily be claimed to have been an earlier stage of the braaam
> >
> >
> > -DJ



You haven't demonstrated a damn thing. You found couple of very old pieces that could be the inspiration point (and I'm sure they weren't). Again if this thing evolved over time ,like you are desperately trying to convince yourself, why is it impossible to do this with the trailers made before Inception campaign?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=830I9w7I7wM

And don't forget that Zarin is actually clearly crediting Dave Rosenthal for coming up with the concept/idea.

I still don't understand really, how insecure you need to be to find it impossible to say "..yes these guys had an idea so attractive that we all started doing it.."
I mean is this what's bothering you most? *"So I don't think there is one genious who went from nothing and went BRAAAAAM."* No there were obviously a few, Zarin, Zimmer, Rosenthal, Nolan...but not me, and not you, we just heard the damn thing and started using it in our own productions, without even asking people who made it if it's ok. Again the only thing we disagree on is that you have this ridiculous idea how this concept doesn't come directly from all things Inception.

alex


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## Daniel James (Nov 16, 2013)

FatPablo @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > > Well thats the thing...you are drawing a line with Zarin....who, as I keep saying, took ideas that I have demonstaited more than once now...'Embraced and then developed them into something greater' (to use your term) but is now trying to claim he came up with the concept and that is what I am saying is stupid...what is he laying claim to?
> ...




From the article:

_"Mike Zarin, after reading Zimmer's comments, reached out to us to finally clear the air on how the BRAAAM was made and the journey it took through the advertising campaign for "Inception." If you're wondering why *Zarin should know, it's because he created it.*"_

I get the impression from this statement, that this is what Zarin was trying to get across.


----------



## FatPablo (Nov 16, 2013)

[/i]


> From the article:
> 
> _"Mike Zarin, after reading Zimmer's comments, reached out to us to finally clear the air on how the BRAAAM was made and the journey it took through the advertising campaign for "Inception." If you're wondering why *Zarin should know, it's because he created it.*"_
> 
> I get the impression from this statement, that this is what Zarin was trying to get across.



IDK, I get the impression from that statement that those are the author's words, not Zarin's.

I also _still_ get the impression, logically, that you're making a case against Zimmer. What do I know; I just read a couple of articles.


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## Daniel James (Nov 16, 2013)

Lex @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > > And THAT is the crux of my point. There are too many people who could legitimately say they inspired what became the popular braaaam because the *concept* borrowed/stole ideas from them. So I don't think there is one genious who went from nothing and went BRAAAAAM. Like I keep saying, it evolved through various stages, even upto and beyond Inception. Sticking a fork in Transformers and saying this is where it started is a bit silly considering all the various tracks we have posted that could easily be claimed to have been an earlier stage of the braaam
> ...



Again why are you going after me....I openly said many times that I braaam. I like Braaams. And again fuck you for going at me personally saying i'm insecure about the subject! Its not about what I think of the braaam, the topic is about where did it come from...I posted a few cues where the composer could easily come to this debate and say that the _concept_ of what we now know as braaaams was stolen from their ideas. I doubt they would but the fact that they could and would have a pretty legitimate case is cause enough for me to totally stand by my point that the whole claiming the concept of the repeating one hit sound design (braaaam) as a compositional element was first invented with transformers/inception is just not true.

Many have imitated the tracks and style of Mind Heist and Inception, but imitating tracks that contain the braaaam does not mean that is where the braaam began (which is the question of the post) its simply where it became popular and was used most effectively.

-DJ


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## Daniel James (Nov 16, 2013)

FatPablo @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> [/i]
> 
> 
> > From the article:
> ...



I read that sentence as that the author was given the impression, by the interviewee, that what he said was the situation.

And I am not making a case again Hans unless he is also claiming to be the sole inventor of the Braaaam concept. I will fully concede that he made it popular, which led to it being temped into everything...but even the fact I used braaams in my shitty score from 08 imply's that I didn't steal the _concept_ from Inception a few years later. And no I am not claiming to have invented the concept either, just stating that I used it.

-DJ


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## Lex (Nov 16, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Lex @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> ...



I'm not going after you, this turned in to private convo pages ago, which is why I suggested we take it private, you insisted otherwise, so now, f#!k you for being a f#!ing baby.

It just sounds like you don't understand the problem at all, nobody is trying to figure out who made the low brass sounding tone as an accent on bar one. That is idiotic. What we are talking about is who came up with a specific concept of using that sound the way it was in Inception. That is what's being copied for years, as the video I posted shows black on white, that is what Zarin, Rosenthal, Zimmer, Nolan and others created. You call this "..they just made it popular", if it makes you happy sure thing, it was always there it's just that these guys are so hot that they made it popular, and then we all started doing the same thing, we all knew it's there evolving for years, but once it was popular, 'cause these guys are just hot like that, we started putting braaams all over the place. Talk about denial...

alex


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## Daniel James (Nov 16, 2013)

Lex @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Lex @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> ...



And it sounds to me like you are thinking that because we are talking about the way braaams sound in inception means that, that is where the braaam as a concept within itself comes from.

-DJ


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## Lex (Nov 16, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> And it sounds to me like you are thinking that because we are talking about the way braaams sound in inception means that, that is where the braaam as a concept within itself comes from.
> 
> -DJ



Daniel this is where our wires get crossed. Making the braaam WORK so well is the creation! That's what Inception did, that's whats being copied. It's the context, it's how u use a specific element or compositional tool/color.No one ever said that Inception team invented the low brass sounding drone??? 

alex


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## FatPablo (Nov 16, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> FatPablo @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > [/i]
> ...



Zarin almost profusely said it was a group effort in the article, but you still want him to be claiming the sound for himself. You even implied it again at the beginning of the second paragraph.

I'm really just trying to stick up for Zarin here, so you guys can continue to have your discussion.


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## woodsdenis (Nov 16, 2013)

Good lord, a couple of thoughts on this.

The original article to me sounds like a sound designer trying to take credit for something he was only part of.

Trailer 1 all sound design elements from Zarin and co.

Trailer 2. HZ music with sound design elements from Zarin and co (he admits his draft for this trailer was rejected!!). He dismisses the music element and emphasises that is was all his sound design underneath it. 

Trailer 3. Mind heist with a completely different Braaam at the end !!! A minor third up and a different sound. He again emphasises that is was all his sound design underneath it. But a different Braaam , where did that one originate, he freely admits that this is the trailer that brought it into the public consciousness. In my recollection this Braaam is the HZ one, please correct me if I am mistaken.

What made trailers 2 and especially 3 was the music in addition to the stellar sound design.

So if I am correct, the sound that by his admission is the signature one is in fact from HZ, he is claiming that punctuation a cut/reveal with perc and ominous drone in a trailer is unique to him and his team, sorry BS.


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## Dan Mott (Nov 16, 2013)

o[])


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## Daniel James (Nov 16, 2013)

Lex @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > And it sounds to me like you are thinking that because we are talking about the way braaams sound in inception means that, that is where the braaam as a concept within itself comes from.
> ...



Then finally we find a mutual understanding! I 100% accept that Inception did the braaam better than anything before it! however I will continue to maintain thats not where it originates from. Maybe we are arguing different interpritations of the question. I am saying that no one can really lay claim to the Inception Braaam (speaking geneal term...ie the inception braaam being the name given to braaams in general but popularized by inception) and you are arguing the more literal who made that one specific braaam sound found in the specific inception trailers.. 

In which case we may very well both be right and both be wrong 

-DJ


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## Lex (Nov 16, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Lex @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> ...



Then there is no argument really. Nobody ever said they invented a low brass sounding tone. They invented a very specific concept/musical idea of how to use that sound. And we started stealing it. I completely agree with you that a low brass sounding drone/tone has been present for a long time, it's just that this was never the point of the article or the discussion. 

alex


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## Daniel James (Nov 16, 2013)

Yeah, you see I read into it that they were making the claim that the created the braaaam from scratch...as in the general concept of a braaam...in all its forms: Low Brass, sound design, hits on cuts etc. And even the question of the article lead me to think it was a large general industry discuession...."Who Really Created The Inception Braaaaam" as if to imply it origins.

But nope I guess I was reading to much into it and the whole thing is just petty in-fighting on the creation of one specific sound. 

Even still Lex...was awesome fun debating with you. Love the passion 

-DJ


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## Tatu (Nov 16, 2013)

o[]) 
keep it going, girls.


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## Ed (Nov 16, 2013)

Daniel James @ Fri Nov 15 said:


> I know you mean this in jest but its exactly my point.



Im deadly serious Daniel. I absolutely hate your guts. 8) 



> No one stole it from anyone, its just one of those things that has evolved into the scene....Maybe I stole it from someone who once used a low brass sustain and a large impact...maybe he stole it from someone who used brass sustains and an impact, maybe he stole that from someone who did a single hit with a tail...but of course he stole the idea from that guy who hit a drum then just added a tail to it...but then that guy must have stolen it from that mammoth that hit a rock with its trunk. I am exaggerating a tad but can you see how pathetically pointless trying to lay claim to the concept is? Its just something that has evolved over time.-DJ



In all seriousness,

All music is an evolution. In fact, everything is an evolution. There are people who have taken genuine leaps forward in terms of innovation and creativity, but it was still always on the backs of others. 

Its kind of like looking at evolution and an individual species out of context. You could say this is clearly unrelated to anything else. But if you continue you look you start seeing it isnt so unique after all, and its morphology has been based on species that came before it, or even that there are cousin species that exist at the same time right now. Only problem here is its harder to piece together some extinct species to do this as fossils arent quite as easy to analyze as a living breaking animal.

But with music you could pick out some random piece of music and style and if you've never heard anything like that before you might think "thats very original!", but you could probably point to loads of other tracks that sound more or less exactly the same. Or you could look back in time and see what sort of music led up to it. Electronic music evolution is really quite interesting for this reason and how it fractured into all these different styles. Drum and bass, dub step etc, especially for very recent examples from the 90s/s and the last 10 years. 

(and BTW I consider myself "stealing" things all the time, so don't read too much more into that word)

Anyway back to the Braam.

Most people would agree that this trailer for Prometheus is basically ripping off a bit of the bRAAAAAMms style.... You'd not be wrong.... BUUUTTT....



....You could say its much closer to this track mixed with the original Aliens trailers scream sound FX. 
Even without Inception trailer as an inspiration at all, all you'd need to get the Prometheus trailer track from this is to restrict it to just one bowed note, add big drum hit on each bow, add sound design and a riser. Done. And nothing necessarily to do with Inception at all.




And obviously this was written long before Inception was even imagined.

But why did the "Inception thing" catch on in all these ways? Because it just works so well. Its easy to edit to, it works for some many things. Simple. Its really no different to anything else its just THIS idea just happens to be particularly simple. Frankly its a fad... it will change and evolve and it has been quite a bit actually since those Inception trailers.... if it stagnated totally people would get bored, even those lazy ad agencies.

But when simple ideas are used over and over people start to get irritated which is why all the talk about this one particular sound even the general public has noticed.


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## Ed (Nov 16, 2013)

FatPablo @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> IDK, I get the impression from that statement that those are the author's words, not Zarin's.
> 
> I also _still_ get the impression, logically, that you're making a case against Zimmer. What do I know; I just read a couple of articles.



The problem is that part might be a paraphrase, but this below is meant to be a real quote from Zarin at the end of the article. So unless he was misquoted, Im not sure how else one can interpret what he is saying as anything other than him being upset/frustrated/annoyed (whatever) that Hans "took credit" for "his" idea. I guess you could also say Zach also tried to take credit for it as well, but probably just by omission as he never really said how he was hired or what directions he was given, and there's loads of people that still think Zach came up with the whole idea on his own. (_though these are typically YT commenters that tend to have a collective IQ of 7_)



> _“*It’s not the not giving the credit, it’s taking credit where it’s not due,*" Zarin continued, about what perturbed him most through all of this, adding: “I’m a believer in truth, I’m a believer in fairness.* It’s the non-truth that bothers me. It’s the not being fair and accurate that bothers me*."_



And then it even goes on further, asking the question as to why Hans is taking credit for the idea, and Mike says "_I don't know ... *shakes head as a single tear appears in his eye*"_ (sorry that last part is just how I read it)



> _Pressed as to why Zimmer may be owning the creation of BRAAAM, rather than sharing the spotlight with those who built it up, *Zarin simply stated I don't know.*_



Personally... Hans didnt invent the braam as it is copied in trailers. Thats really just Mark and Zach (mostly Zach's) doing. The way Hans used the braaams was more subtle (because hey, its not a trailer track it doesnt need to bash you over the head quite so much). But.... I wouldnt want to argue that it has no relation to whoever came up with the idea first, I mean I think it would be quite difficult for me to argue that the "braaam" in the Inception score was not a major idea inside it. I have no idea what to believe in who really came up with these ideas first. We know Hans comes up with these "suites" of random ideas early on, so I can believe he really did already have this idea first. Who knows really. 

We need to take this to Judge Judy and let her sort it out. All 3 guys (Hans, Mark and Zach) arguing their case. I don't even really care that much, it would just be fun to see.

Anyway, we already know that Hans doesn't write any of his own music anymore and pays underage slaves working 18 hour days to massage his feet while he watches more slaves write his music for him. Then the orchestrators take that work and throws it all out and rewrites it again so a real orchestra can play it. Then they throw that out, because obviously real orchestras cant play anything Hans writes because as soon as they see the name Hans Zimmer they vomit, and its just too hard to get any good performances out of the impossible things Hans' slaves want them to play. Thats why Hans has to have such a good sample library. So... after that... they take whatever few mins of recordings they can salvage out of the 500 hour sessions and then rewrite the whole soundtrack with samples while Hans drinks Jack Daniels and occasionally visits the "special room" in his Brothel of a studio where he keeps a few sexy eastern european girls on full time, occasionally taking a break to whip the ghost writers with a towel tied around his waste, whist swearing in German.

One thing is for certain, unless anyone can show me an earlier use of the word. Hans did come up with the word BRAAAAM.


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## KingIdiot (Nov 16, 2013)

It's wild how quotes from the movie work with the stuff going on in this thread.

"An idea can transform the world and rewrite all the rules."

BRRAAAAWWWMM

"The seed that we planted in this man's mind may change everything. "

BRRRAAAWWWWWWWM

(di do do doo di do do doo DI DO DO DOO)

" If we are gonna perform Brrawmception then we need imagination.

BBRRRRAAAAAAAWWWWWWMMMMMM!!!!

(meep mohp moop moop meep mohp moop moop MEEP MOHP MOOP MOOP)

BBBRRRRRAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWMMMM!!!


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## Astronaut FX (Nov 16, 2013)

I've lost track...are we debating who gets _credit_ or _blame_ for BRAAAM?


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## lux (Nov 16, 2013)

it took me like five seconds to figure out it wasn't about Brahms


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## Ed (Nov 16, 2013)

I hate it when my friends fight. Lex and Daniel, stop it. Dont make me turn this car around, or no one is going to Disney land. 
Also, Im not quite sure you disagree as much you seem to think you disagree, but maybe Im wrong about that. 
(edit: OK I see you came to an understanding, I will allow you to continue to be my internet friends, I realise this would have been very traumatic if I had to break up with you guys)

As everyone knows, I never ever fight on the internet........... ...


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## Ed (Nov 16, 2013)

lux @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> it took me like five seconds to figure out it wasn't about Brahms



There's a really fun nerdy joke in there somewhere...


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## Ryan (Nov 16, 2013)

Put this thread to a big-screen and you guys got your self a trailer with a lot of "BRAAAAM!!$" Very intense, indeed!!

o[])


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## scientist (Nov 16, 2013)

Some detective work:

Inception teaser trailer 1, featuring the sound design of Mike Zarin and company: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5VDKVqvo8M
Uploaded on *August 24th 2009*


Quoted from the first indiewire article, Mr. Zimmer states:
“I remember before we made the movie, *Chris and I were in London at the 'Sherlock Holmes' premiere*, and of course it ends up with the two of us in the corner somewhere talking about the movie we're about to make while everyone else is around us at the premiere going wild. We’re such party animals. And I said, 'I'll tell you what, let's just go and book a studio and get a couple of brass players.' The sound, really, is that I put a piano in the middle of a church and I put a book on the pedal, and these brass players would basically play into the resonance of the piano. And then I added a bit of electronic nonsense. But really, it just came from saying, 'Let's experiment.'”

Sherlock Holmes world premiere date: *December 15th 2009* according to this article.

Conclusion: Colonel Mustard, in the Conservatory, with the Lead Pipe.


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## Lex (Nov 16, 2013)

Daniel James @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Even still Lex...was awesome fun debating with you. Love the passion
> 
> -DJ



Likewise Daniel, stay well. 

alex


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## woodsdenis (Nov 16, 2013)

http://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ

As a fitting end to this , proof that braaams were used years before Inception.


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## Ed (Nov 16, 2013)

woodsdenis @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> http://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
> 
> As a fitting end to this , proof that braaams were used years before Inception.


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 16, 2013)

woodsdenis @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> http://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
> 
> As a fitting end to this , proof that braaams were used years before Inception.



I invented the first BRAAAM many years ago after ingesting some bad tacos


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## jleckie (Nov 16, 2013)

Tatu @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> o[])
> keep it going, girls.



:lol: o[]) o[]) o[]) o[])


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## Greg (Nov 16, 2013)

Here ya go 

Altered States 
1980

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyBE_aKg858#t=25

Not quite the same effect but perhaps it helped plant a seed in someones psyche?


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## dannthr (Nov 16, 2013)

Braaam is just the most accurate word to use--that's how I make the sound with my mouth.


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## korgscrew (Nov 16, 2013)

dannthr @ Sun Nov 17 said:


> Braaam is just the most accurate word to use--that's how I make the sound with my mouth.



But who made it?!?

:lol:


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## dannthr (Nov 16, 2013)

My mouth?

That's a great question!


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## korgscrew (Nov 16, 2013)

But was it you or your mouth that made it? I just want everyone to be clear on the matter. I know your mouth is you by the way....


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## Diffusor (Nov 16, 2013)

Death metal/me†al bands were doing Bramm power hits back in the 80
's. So was the band Swans.


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## RiffWraith (Nov 16, 2013)

Just add a little more fuel to the fire here (because that is one of the things I do best!)

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/hans-zimmer-feels-horrible-when-his-inception-bramms-are-used-in-movie-trailers-20131106 (http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/ ... s-20131106)


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## Jimbo 88 (Nov 16, 2013)

I started it! Well I wasn't the only one, but bunch of composers who where all listening and feeding off of each other. 

Back in the 90's it started as a piano hit. Low notes usually in Octaves. It was used to punctuate a moment and became very cliche quickly. I had to do it so often I started looking for variations. 

I remember it morphing into analogue synths imitating low strings/brass. 

I remember a patch called "Wespan" or something like that, created for GigaStudio by a British sound design company in a package called "Media Blocks"

That was the 1st real "Brammm". It was all over TV and films for awhile and composers started improving on it slowly but surely. 

Then Hans came along and created the ultimate version we all know and love.


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## korgscrew (Nov 16, 2013)

"And thus, here we are two years later with a foghorn of sound we seemingly can't escape. Now before our comments section lights up, yes, Zack Hemsey did create the trailer music for "Inception"where the BRAAM phenomenon first gained traction. But, as Zimmer explained, he came up with the crucial notes featured in the movie which you can hear in "Half-Remembered Dream" from the soundtrack."


Doesn't that settle it?!?


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## Hannes_F (Nov 16, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> So, umm, anyway....
> 
> Who here thinks that these hits in the beginning
> 
> ...




He will never get that sword out. Not in a lifetime.


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## Ed (Nov 16, 2013)

Greg @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> Here ya go
> 
> Altered States
> 1980
> ...



Ah yes! I remember seeing this posted in one of these discussions before actually but I'd forgotton...

See.... its like I say its all an evolution. Even if no one involved with Inception ever heard this (_or that other track I posted on the other page regarding Prometheus_), ideas don't just come out of a vacuum, most of them were based on a very slightly different version that came before it. Most of the things you like that you may think are really unique and original probably only seem like that because you don't know the inspirations or maybe you aren't familiar enough with other music that other people are making and have been making that sounds very similar for a long time, suddenly then it seems not so unique anymore. I've seen that loads of times in my life. I think there may be some in history that have had more unique ideas than others, in that the "slightly different" variation of what already was a bigger leap than normal, but really thats as best as we can hope for. Interestingly even in actual biological evolution we have "convergent evolution". In that very similar adaptations evolved independently in completely different lineages. Eye's being a really obvious example, or some form of flight/gliding mechanism is another. The reason I mention this is that it can also in a sense be true psychologically. That people and societies in different parts of the world can have independently come up with the same ideas throughout history. So if you imagine you were a god and were able to start another earth somewhere and see if it would all turn out the same, I think it would, just maybe not exactly the same. Even if those we consider to have pioneered some major technological breakthrough didnt exist or died before they could finish it. Someone else would have eventually figured it out and come up with the same thing. Its like... inevitable you know? 

Now blah blah blah accidentally starting to talk about determinism and I actually just wanted to get to this point.... This is slightly different to what we're talking about here though. This was an ad campaign for a film. So the idea that two or more people independently came up with the same basic idea for the "braaaams" is I think quite unlikely. Mark's version is obviously way more subdued and sound design, but I would find it quite unlikely that Hans just so happen to have a very similar idea with deep brass braaaams for his score. Yes its not exactly the same... but I think its close enough that to me seems unlikely that Mark's early teaser trailer track just so happened to have this idea in it, and then for the actual film score also just so happen to have a very similar idea in it, and for there to have been no common link.

So if we're talking about the "chances" of differently people coming up with similar ideas independently of each other, I totally believe that. But those chances go down when you see the context. So to me the only question is who actually came up with the idea. If it was Mike and he wrote that track without any outside influence at all, to what extent was Hans influenced by this? Or maybe Mike is telling porkies. Trying to convince me at least that they both had the same chances of coming up with this idea is I think a stretch.... :D


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## RiffWraith (Nov 16, 2013)

Hannes_F @ Sun Nov 17 said:


> RiffWraith @ Sat Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > So, umm, anyway....
> ...



Not in 100 lifetimes.

Hey - good title for a trailer track! :D


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## Ed (Nov 16, 2013)

korgscrew @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> "And thus, here we are two years later with a foghorn of sound we seemingly can't escape. Now before our comments section lights up, yes, Zack Hemsey did create the trailer music for "Inception"where the BRAAM phenomenon first gained traction. But, as Zimmer explained, he came up with the crucial notes featured in the movie which you can hear in "Half-Remembered Dream" from the soundtrack."
> 
> Doesn't that settle it?!?



Well it would have if Mike Zarin hadn't said actually he did it first for the first Inception teaser.


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## Rctec (Nov 16, 2013)

...I think I'll let this percolate for a little while before I comment 
-Hz-


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## RiffWraith (Nov 16, 2013)

Rctec @ Sun Nov 17 said:


> ...I think I'll let this percolate for a little while before I comment
> -Hz-



Right - because it's plainly obvious this hasn't percolated enough.... :lol:


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## Ed (Nov 16, 2013)

Well I'm out of ideas. 

Im pretty sure no one will come up with anything else that hasnt already been mentioned.


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## dannthr (Nov 16, 2013)

If I read the articles correctly, they're both talking about producing different sounds.

I don't see "lying," I just see different references to different sounds.

It's neat to learn about how both sounds were made.


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## Rctec (Nov 16, 2013)

Well, who do you think got to read the script? I did check with the Nolans. I was one of the very few people who even got to read the whole thing. In the movie the "Braaahm" sound is actually a story point - its not a random sound effect. The mechanism of "The Kick" actually is tied to the Piaf/Brass Braahm. Trailers are using something like it just for effect. So you do have to think of them as different beasts. With us its a plot point...But we where obviously working on the idea before there was any footage to even make a trailer. It's really Chris', since he wrote the story and wrote a description into the script...the rest is just a bit of blowing and banging 
Anyway, who cares? That was four years ago. But what is the most dangerous virus? An idea. Once you get it into your brain, you can't let it go...


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## dannthr (Nov 16, 2013)

I'm just waiting for the ultra high pitched TING! to take hold of the entertainment world.


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## KingIdiot (Nov 16, 2013)

Rctec @ Sat Nov 16 said:


> But what is the most dangerous virus? An idea. Once you get it into your brain, you can't let it go...



I think everyone here has lost their totem.


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## ProtectedRights (Nov 16, 2013)

Man, I don't manage to read all of this massive text here. Can somebody sum up what the focusing expert's community intelligence has derived?


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## Daniel James (Nov 16, 2013)

tl;dr Two members of the forum interpret the article in different ways. And passionately debate completely separate points that are basically irrelevant from each other. Realize mistake, make up, skip happily through fields. 

Hans enters, tells story. Inception puns begin. This is where we are now.

-DJ


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## FatPablo (Nov 16, 2013)

Well, now... here's what _*I*_ read... :wink:


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## Lex (Nov 16, 2013)

dannthr @ Sun Nov 17 said:


> I'm just waiting for the ultra high pitched TING! to take hold of the entertainment world.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AXbiCdmXgw

alex


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## germancomponist (Nov 16, 2013)

Lex @ Sun Nov 17 said:


> dannthr @ Sun Nov 17 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just waiting for the ultra high pitched TING! to take hold of the entertainment world.
> ...



"Sweet".


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## Ed (Nov 17, 2013)

Lex @ Sun Nov 17 said:


> dannthr @ Sun Nov 17 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just waiting for the ultra high pitched TING! to take hold of the entertainment world.
> ...



:lol: :lol:


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## korgscrew (Nov 17, 2013)

Thats a braaam, just pitched


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## DanielBeijbom (Nov 18, 2013)

Small side note,

I've always wanted to know what string library is used here: http://youtu.be/K1w3bP1Lwyg?t=43s --- the violins.

Still the best sounding spiccato violin sample I've heard to date.


Anyone know? 


Thanks!


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## Ed (Nov 18, 2013)

DanielBeijbom @ Mon Nov 18 said:


> Small side note,
> 
> I've always wanted to know what string library is used here: http://youtu.be/K1w3bP1Lwyg?t=43s --- the violins.
> 
> Still the best sounding spiccato violin sample I've heard to date.



Dunno about that mate.... What string libraries do you currently have?


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## Leo Badinella (Nov 21, 2013)

I had always thought those low brass thunderous single notes in Inception were the in-dream interpretation of the Edith Piaf song. As such they are a brilliant and elegant analogy to the way the dream-state brain interprets non-dream sounds in reality. Because of that, and because of how well those notes work within the movie I really doubt their inclusion was influenced by previous trailer work. That would be a marketing decision, and as brilliant as those can sometimes be, they usually can be discerned by their lack of substance. Which is clearly not the case with inception.


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## guydoingmusic (Nov 21, 2013)

Wait... I thought we were talking Johannes Brahms...


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## SymphonicSamples (Nov 21, 2013)

I'll end it now . IT IS . Wait for it . A clever sound design on section of a voice , slowed down and pitch shifted , and I give you . Jean-Claude Braaam Damme . o[])


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## park bench (Nov 21, 2013)

These threads get better every year...


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## mark812 (Nov 21, 2013)

DanielBeijbom @ Mon Nov 18 said:


> Small side note,
> 
> I've always wanted to know what string library is used here: http://youtu.be/K1w3bP1Lwyg?t=43s --- the violins.
> 
> ...



Pretty sure it's VSL.


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## Mike Connelly (Nov 22, 2013)

They put together a killer first trailer, and he did a killer soundtrack for it (which has been widely imitated since then). I can see why the guy wouldn't be happy about people getting the impression that someone else put together those sounds, and I think it's a bit ridiculous to direct so much anger at the guy for wanting to set the record straight.

In the article he never claimed to have invented the idea, nor created the sound that was used in the movie. He's just saying that he did the sounds for the original trailer, including that particular "braam". And it seems like nobody has disputed that. Frankly I think it's nice to have the transparency of how exactly the process went. And it's refreshing to see the guy bending over backwards to give credit to others who were involved in the process.


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## KingIdiot (Nov 22, 2013)

It's the internet.

It blames Christopher Nolan for stealing Inception from Scrooge McDuck.


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