# A Mac Pro 6.1 as an interim solution?



## cato (Sep 18, 2018)

Hi,

I'm in a bit of a pickle. As I have a feature film coming up that I'll be scoring in January, I need to upgrade from my current quad Mac Mini to something that is equally portable (I have a studio in London and another in Spain so need something easy to put in a rucksack).

I've been holding out (like many people I expect) to buy the new Mac Pro when they *finally* come out, but I've run out of time now and need something considerably more powerful than my Mac Mini, so thinking about getting this refurbished dustbin-style Mac Pro:

https://www.macstoreuk.com/product/mac-pro-6-1-2-7ghz-12-core-64gb-ram-dual-d700s-1tb-ssd-7/

Is there anything I should be wary of before buying, like choosing d500 over a D700 graphics card for audio work? I heard the D700 can overheat, although I've also heard that's mainly when you're doing video work. I expect the price of the unit will plummet once the new MP comes out (another reason I wanted to hold out), but at least buying refurbished will cut the cost a bit I suppose...

Thanks for any advice!

Cato


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## Sami (Sep 18, 2018)

Wait for the updated iMacs with the 6-core Intel CPUs


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## cato (Sep 18, 2018)

Sami said:


> Wait for the updated iMacs with the 6-core Intel CPUs



Sounds like it will be a good machine, but I need to to be portable enough to chuck in a bag and travel with unfortunately...


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## Sami (Sep 18, 2018)

cato said:


> Sounds like it will be a good machine, but I need to to be portable enough to chuck in a bag and travel with unfortunately...



I heard there are some pretty good mini ITX motherboards for the 8700k as well and Logic apparently runs pretty well on z370- if you get my drift...


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## gsilbers (Sep 18, 2018)

the new mac pros might get released in july or sept of 2019. if .. and maybe. 
when they come out the price will most likley be astronomical based on the newest macbook and imacs. 
and since apple mentioned they are targeting the pro market im guessig they will go bigger so there are more options to do addons and replacements. which is something everyone hated aboutt he trashcan macs. 
performance wise that mac you linked is very good and small. so i think itll be a good option that can last a long while. specially coming from macmini youwill def feel the change. 
a lot of folks here are still on the cheesegrater and its doing very well still and those are not as good performancewise. 

as for video card, get the cheap obviously. if its audio work.


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## Damarus (Sep 18, 2018)

Personally, I don't see the point of investing so much money in a machine that is nearly 5 years old now. The base model iMac pro would be much better than the 2013 mac pro, and you can build nearly 2 great small form factor PCs at the price of that trash can. IMO at the price of that 2013 mac pro, your better off building a PC or getting the newest iMac 27"


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## Bender-offender (Sep 18, 2018)

If you’re in need of a computer now, then there’s nothing wrong with getting a Mac Pro 6,1. Personally, I feel they’re still really great and super powerful. Since technology is _always_ changing, you’re never going to be ahead of the curve, so you might as well get what you need when you need it. My only suggestion is to _consider _the 8 or 6 core Mac Pro over the 12 core. I only say that because the 8 and 6 core have better single core speeds than the 12 which will be more beneficial IMO. With audio, single core performance is usually more important than multi-core performance since you’re doing things in real-time. However, I’m sure the 12 core is still a beast if you decide to go that route. 

Also, you definitely don’t need the D700 GFX for audio. Even the D300 is more than enough for audio. 

Finally, if you can afford it, have you considered one of the new MacBook Pros? Or even one a year or two old? I have a 2013 MBPro and it’s still impressively powerful.


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## cato (Sep 18, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> the new mac pros might get released in july or sept of 2019. if .. and maybe.
> when they come out the price will most likley be astronomical based on the newest macbook and imacs.



That's a good point, I expect the new ones will come with a very heavy price tag, so I might not be able to afford it anyway! I'm hoping this MP trashcan will last me at least 3 years so I can earn back off the back of it.


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## cato (Sep 18, 2018)

Damarus said:


> Personally, I don't see the point of investing so much money in a machine that is nearly 5 years old now. The base model iMac pro would be much better than the 2013 mac pro, and you can build nearly 2 great small form factor PCs at the price of that trash can. IMO at the price of that 2013 mac pro, your better off building a PC or getting the newest iMac 27"



I agree that's it's old tech, but like @Bender-offender said, they're still super powerful... my friend is always trying to convince me to go back to PC's, but I'm so familiar with Logic and OSX now that it would be like sticking hot burning coals into my eyes to go back to Windows at this point. I'll try it one day, but too many blue screens of death for me when I was working on one.


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## cato (Sep 18, 2018)

Bender-offender said:


> _consider _the 8 or 6 core Mac Pro over the 12 core.



I was going to go for a 6 core originally, but it seems all the refurbished options I've found are only 12 core. I could try the Apple store I guess, but I'm keen to get everything set up asap and it's a bit of a lottery on their site.



Bender-offender said:


> have you considered one of the new MacBook Pros?



I have considered them - they look fantastic. The problem I had with working from a laptop previously though is that my place in Spain is il scorchio meaning I had heat issues (even with air con). The place I work from there is in the south west and called 'the frying pan of Spain', so you get the idea of how hot it can get!


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## Bender-offender (Sep 18, 2018)

cato said:


> I was going to go for a 6 core originally, but it seems all the refurbished options I've found are only 12 core. I could try the Apple store I guess, but I'm keen to get everything set up asap and it's a bit of a lottery on their site.
> 
> 
> 
> I have considered them - they look fantastic. The problem I had with working from a laptop previously though is that my place in Spain is il scorchio meaning I had heat issues (even with air con). The place I work from there is in the south west and called 'the frying pan of Spain', so you get the idea of how hot it can get!


How quickly do you need the computer? I found my Mac Pro 8 core on eBay for a surprisingly decent price. 

I’ve been using a silver Mac Pro for years (which is still a powerful computer) and it wasn’t until this year I finally needed an upgrade. I researched a lot and many audio folks (on VI Control and elsewhere) said the 8 core is a good balance of single core speed and multi core. In fact, (I know it is out-dated) when I did the Evan Logic Benchmark test with the 8 core, I was able to get the same track count as the 12 core Mac Pro — which was maxed out at 255 instrument tracks. So if you aren’t in a crazy hurry, see if you can find a reputable seller on eBay. 

Concerning the MacBook Pro, I definitely understand the heat issue. I’m outside of Los Angeles and need to work through the extremely hot summers here  Just know, the Mac Pro 6,1 puts out more heat than the MacBook Pro. When I’m stressing my MacBook Pro, I usually prop it up under the screen and place a small fan next to it to blow some heat off the bottom. Anyway, just a suggestion.


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## Damarus (Sep 18, 2018)

cato said:


> I agree that's it's old tech, but like @Bender-offender said, they're still super powerful... my friend is always trying to convince me to go back to PC's, but I'm so familiar with Logic and OSX now that it would be like sticking hot burning coals into my eyes to go back to Windows at this point. I'll try it one day, but too many blue screens of death for me when I was working on one.



Gotcha. So I would lean toward the iMac 27" (2017). I would only go for a Macbook Pro if you absolutely need the portability.

iMac 2017 vs Mac pro 2013: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/compare/3762337?baseline=9927013


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## wayne_rowley (Sep 18, 2018)

How quickly do you need it?

There are rumours of a new ‘pro’ Mac Mini due out in October. Might be worth waiting to see if that arrives rather than getting a trash can now, and regretting it in a couple of months.

Wayne


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## cato (Sep 19, 2018)

wayne_rowley said:


> How quickly do you need it?
> 
> There are rumours of a new ‘pro’ Mac Mini due out in October. Might be worth waiting to see if that arrives rather than getting a trash can now, and regretting it in a couple of months.
> 
> Wayne



That's not a bad idea actually. My Mac Mini quad server has been a fantastic and portable bit of kit that's served me well, so if they deal with the loud fans issue and make it quite a bit more powerful then it could be a great interim solution. Thanks for the tip Wayne!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 19, 2018)

The $6000+ 12-core sells for about $2600 refurbished or used on ebay in the US.

That's not holding its value like other Macs have.


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## dcoscina (Sep 19, 2018)

I got a brand new 6,1 a few weeks ago. My old 3,1 was sadly dying a slow death. I'm loving the stability and extra cores in LPX. And it's quiet!!!! I also bought a Thunderbay 4 to use my SSDs with it. NOTE- if the TB4 has a LOUD fan. I was told I could disconnect it if I wasn't running any spinning drives which I'm not. Now it's blissfully quiet.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 19, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro-6-1-12-Core-2-4GHz-CPU-64GB-RAM-256GB-SSD-Dual-D500-Late-2013/302861887758?hash=item4683f9a90e%3Ag%3AsFQAAOSw-RFafzDn&LH_BIN=1


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## Wunderhorn (Sep 19, 2018)

Yes, tough times for professionals who like to use Mac OS.
The iMac is really no option because you are stuck with a built-in screen and no expandability. They outdate themselves faster than any Mac Pro.
I am working on a 2013 Mac Pro but I wish I could upgrade to something more powerful (Not only for music). If Apple does not deliver on their promise for next year I will be forced to jump ship. I think a refurbished or used 12-core would be OK for the time being. Especially with VE-Pro you can make good use of these cores. Also, you can take a Mac Pro relatively easy through airports. Count in a bit extra time because TSA loves to look at it.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Sep 20, 2018)

Bender-offender said:


> I have a 2013 MBPro and it’s still impressively powerful.



Same here. It still takes everything I throw at it (it's no slouch). Plus, you can add PC slave if needed.

@cato if you need 32GBRam, I would look at the latest model. Just get a good cooling mat and you'll be golden.


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## jonnybutter (Sep 20, 2018)

I pulled the trigger last year and got a trashcan, and it's been perfectly fine. I plan on getting some good years out of it, then upgrading when it's a good value for _me_. LPX should run pretty well on it for a while, so..I'm happy. 

You never know what Apple's going to do, so I wouldn't (and didn't) wait, but that's just me. BTW, it is small but pretty darned heavy!


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## tmhuud (Sep 20, 2018)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro-6-1-12-Core-2-4GHz-CPU-64GB-RAM-256GB-SSD-Dual-D500-Late-2013/302861887758?hash=item4683f9a90e%3Ag%3AsFQAAOSw-RFafzDn&LH_BIN=1 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro-6-1-12-Core-2-4GHz-CPU-64GB-RAM-256GB-SSD-Dual-D500-Late-2013/302861887758?hash=item4683f9a90e:g:sFQAAOSw-RFafzDn&amp;LH_BIN=1)


 
great price for 64gigs 12 core.


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## Olfirf (Sep 21, 2018)

I am about to buy a used trash can as well, as I had several kernel panics on my old Mac Pro during the job. Could be a ram stick, could also be the graphic card or heat issues ... anyway, I have investigated this thoroughly and I tell you, don't get a 12-core. Take a 6-core or 8-core, maybe a 10-core, but these are rare. The best clockspeed to core-count performance is certainly the 8-core @3,3 GHz (not the usual 3,0GHz). It is a possible processor upgrade you can do yourself, but sometimes there are machines with exactly that a CPU offered on eBay. You will also be fine with any off the shelf 6-core or 8-core. To buy the CPU for the best possible upgrade is something like $250, so, no big investment as swapping the graphic card! That is why you should not buy any 4-core (or rather any d300 Mac Pro). And I would not advice for the 12 core, as its Logic performance is actually worse than the 6 or 8 core where it counts.


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## Wunderhorn (Sep 21, 2018)

Especially with VE-Pro I think the more cores the merrier. Just MHO.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 21, 2018)

Olfirf said:


> And I would not advice for the 12 core, as its Logic performance is actually worse than the 6 or 8 core where it counts.



Because the clock speed is slower?

I don't know that to be wrong, but I am skeptical. There are tricks to get Logic to divide certain things among cores rather than spiking individual ones, and then more cores is more.


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## Olfirf (Sep 22, 2018)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Because the clock speed is slower?
> 
> I don't know that to be wrong, but I am skeptical. There are tricks to get Logic to divide certain things among cores rather than spiking individual ones, and then more cores is more.


In theory, that should be true, but from what i have read and tried out myself - obviously not yet on the Mac Pro 2013 - is that the Kontakt voice limit is far earlier reached to other factors, before any 8-core would run out of processing power. On the other hand, a single core might break just due to one plugin, like a u-he synth or any hungry effect. It is true of course that you cannot generally claim an 8-core is better than a 12-core. But it is true for most cases in audio. There are many factors to consider, like using VEpro or not, other plugins in the template, buffer size usually used ... to be sure, you would probably have to compare two identical logic sessions on each machine. Zi. am not gonna do that just yet, but all facts I came across point to the 8-core be the better choice for audio work in general. Especially the unofficial intel CPU with 3,3 GHz clock speeed, as it has almost the same clock speed as the 6-core, 2 more cores and more cash memory than the 6-core, wich seems to be relevant for real time processing.


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## whinecellar (Sep 22, 2018)

Olfirf said:


> ...That is why you should not buy (any d300 Mac Pro)...



Why is that? In all the research I did, it appears the infamous graphics card issues were related to the D500 or D700 made between Feb-May of 2015... the D300 is supposed to be fine. What was your experience?


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## Olfirf (Sep 22, 2018)

whinecellar said:


> Why is that? In all the research I did, it appears the infamous graphics card issues were related to the D500 or D700 made between Feb-May of 2015... the D300 is supposed to be fine. What was your experience?


No personal experience, of course, as I do not have the trash can, yet. But I found several people with the d300 models with exactly the same problems. Yet, those models were not included in Apples free exchange program. I even contacted some owners from this place and two of them reported they could not solve the problems. A replacement graphic card for a Mac Pro is insanely expensive - not justifiable for that old machine IMO. That is why I read countless times, buying a used d300 Mac Pro is potentially a can of worms. If you could be sure, a d300 would be more than enough for my purposes, as well. It is just the risk, that the whole machine could be unreliable (kernel panics!).


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## Olfirf (Sep 22, 2018)

By the way, I just figured out the problems with my old Mac Pro. I am pretty sure, now, it was only a 7-port USB hub I recently bought ... I hate computers!


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## samphony (Sep 23, 2018)

I have the d300 model since it came onto the market and never had one kernel panic or graphics issue!


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## Soundhound (Sep 24, 2018)

Keep us updated, thank you all! I have my finger itching for the ebay trigger for a 6.1 as well...

Anyone have any info on whether it's better to get a later year 6.1 rather than the ones that first came out in 2013? I'd read somewhere about some differences but not finding it...


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## Damarus (Sep 24, 2018)

I'm still confused if I'm missing something here. The 6.1 Mac pro is 5-year-old technology.. why are we spending so much money on it? No doubt its a workhorse if you already bought it years ago, but why consider it now?

We are aware that our DAW's benefit the most from single core speeds correct?

The iMac is the fastest single core machine Apple makes. They have arguably the best display of any computer.
The iMac Pro (10core) is the best balance between both those and just overall a beast. This is the best choice if money was not part of the equation. 
The MacBook Pro i7 would be the best next choice for portability.


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## GtrString (Sep 24, 2018)

... while waiting for a MacMini pro launch in October18


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## Soundhound (Sep 24, 2018)

The answer is......money.



Damarus said:


> I'm still confused if I'm missing something here. The 6.1 Mac pro is 5-year-old technology.. why are we spending so much money on it? No doubt its a workhorse if you already bought it years ago, but why consider it now?
> 
> We are aware that our DAW's benefit the most from single core speeds correct?
> 
> ...


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## tmhuud (Sep 24, 2018)

Damarus said:


> The iMac Pro (10core) is the best balance between both those and just overall a beast. This is the best choice if money was not part of the equation.
> The MacBook Pro i7 would be the best next choice for portability.



Portability is a major concern for the OP so I would actually place the lap top first. I’m hearing the laptop just screams with Logic Sesssions. This is the first time in my half century on this planet that I’m really considering the laptop for music production. Great times. I’d pimp that MAC Book Pro out though so it would get quite pricey.


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## whinecellar (Sep 24, 2018)

tmhuud said:


> Portability is a major concern for the OP so I would actually place the lap top first. I’m hearing the laptop just screams with Logic Sesssions. This is the first time in my half century on this planet that I’m really considering the laptop for music production. Great times. I’d pimp that MAC Book Pro out though so it would get quite pricey.



Man that wouldn’t surprise me. I’m still totally happy with a mid-2014 MBP with just 16 GB RAM that runs my ~750 track Logic template (thanks to VEP). Well, 64 GB RAM would be nice but 32 is at least a step up from 16! That’s really the only bottleneck...


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## Damarus (Sep 24, 2018)

Soundhound said:


> The answer is......money.



yet.. 3600 for a mac pro?



tmhuud said:


> Portability is a major concern for the OP so I would actually place the lap top first. I’m hearing the laptop just screams with Logic Sesssions. This is the first time in my half century on this planet that I’m really considering the laptop for music production. Great times. I’d pimp that MAC Book Pro out though so it would get quite pricey.



Agreed, as long as you don't opt for the i9 processor!


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## whinecellar (Sep 24, 2018)

Damarus said:


> ...3600 for a Mac Pro?



I’ve seen maxed out 6-cores with 128 GB RAM, D300, and 1TB SSD for the low $3k neighborhood, properly refurb’d with an Apple Warranty through OWC. That’s a lot of machine for the money - an iMac Pro configured like that would be WAY more, and you’re paying for a screen you might not want... 

There’s a lot to be said for the tiny and silent form factor of the trashcan. Tons of ports, somewhat modular, etc. 

YMMV!


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## Soundhound (Sep 24, 2018)

Yah, it gives me pause too. but i’m seeing 8/10/12 core 64gig 6.1s on ebay well under $2500 now. 




Damarus said:


> yet.. 3600 for a mac pro?


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## cato (Sep 27, 2018)

Thanks for all the discussion on this, it's really useful to read. I've come across two options so far, but what @Olfirf has mentioned about 12 cores being a bit rubbish has me thinking... These are two that I've come across:

*6 Core Mac Pro* (seems to fit the bill regarding a D500 etc. right?)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro-6-Core-3-5-512GB-32GB-RAM-D500-Graphics-Late-2013-Mint/312248817223?hash=item48b37ad647:g:IdgAAOSwZk1bdbGi

*12 core refurbished* (D700 and 12 core seems overkill though right?)
https://www.macstoreuk.com/product/mac-pro-6-1-2-7ghz-12-core-64gb-ram-dual-d700s-1tb-ssd-7/

_or with this company with a D500 card, 3.0 GHz 10 cores and 1 TB of SSD goodness):_

https://create.pro/configure_macpro61?cat=pro_audio_macpro61#config

I used to work on a laptop and love the idea, but I ran into overheating problems previously because Spain can get hotter than a Miles Davis trumpet, so I'm wary. Also like that the Mac Pro is pretty silent from what I hear.

Decision decisions. I am upgrading from a Mac Mini though, so even a calculator would probably impress me at this point.


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## cato (Sep 27, 2018)

whinecellar said:


> I’ve seen maxed out 6-cores with 128 GB RAM, D300, and 1TB SSD for the low $3k neighborhood, properly refurb’d with an Apple Warranty through OWC.



I see what you mean - $3,600 for a 6 core with 128gb RAM, 1TB OWC SSD and D500 video card:

https://eshop.macsales.com/configure-my-mac/UAGA3LP6IXXXXXB

Why don't we have those deals in the UK? Although customs would probably push that up to same as UK prices I expect.


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## wayne_rowley (Sep 27, 2018)

I know what you mean. I'm in the same position, except I'm on a 2011 MacBook Pro. 

I too am tempted by a Mac Pro, but I am going to wait to see if a Mac Mini appears in the next few weeks. I am put off slightly by the high price for 5 year old tech.

I'm also still considering a 5.1 Mac Pro. Nearly as powerful as the trash can, but much, much cheaper! Not an option for you of course if you need portability.

Wayne


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## cato (Sep 27, 2018)

wayne_rowley said:


> I'm also still considering a 5.1 Mac Pro. Nearly as powerful as the trash can, but much, much cheaper! Not an option for you of course if you need portability.



A Pro Mac Mini would be great, but there's no guarantee that Apple will even bring those out from what I've been reading. One article I read also said it's possible Apple will remove them entirely from their line of products, although I think that would be a mistake.

I currently have the quad core server edition of the Mac Mini which has served me well and also have an 8 core Mac Pro 5,1 in my London studio. However, as the latter doesn't have thunderbolt 2 and I'm using SSD's in a Blackmagic multidock in both studios and an Apollo UAD Twin via Thunderbolt as my sound card, I now need to move across to the dark side and get Darth Vader's helmet (or another powerful portable rig).

To be honest, although it's powerful, the Mac 5,1 was a poor investment for me as I left it in London and ended up composing more on my MM in my Spanish studio because it is so easy to move around. That's why the 6,1 sounds like a great interim solution until the new ones come out, assuming the new ones will also be portable and cheap enough to buy without remortgaging my house... I could literally chuck the 6,1 in my laptop rucksack along with my SSD's and Apollo sound card and be set up in minutes in Spain if need be. That would be tough with an iMac even though it sounds like a good option too.


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## cato (Sep 27, 2018)

Quick question for those of you with 6,1 Mac Pro's already - I'm seeing a lot of 256gb HD MPro's on eBay (together with D300 video cards), I'm assuming I should steer clear of those as the extra space will be needed for apps and OS right? 512gb or 1tb minimum?


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## tmhuud (Sep 27, 2018)

I would say it really depends. If your just making music your fine. Mine came 256 and I got by on it for years. I think I recently went to 4tb for ridiculous elbow space. But if your logic (sorry didn’t read thru whole thread) then your even in a better place as now you can move library stuff externally.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Sep 27, 2018)

cato said:


> Sounds like it will be a good machine, but I need to to be portable enough to chuck in a bag and travel with unfortunately...



https://www.google.com/search?q=ima...i61j69i60l3.2376j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I actually think an iMac is a great solution if you need to be portable. I sometimes assist on photo shoots where we use one as a capture computer and it's actually pretty easy to lug around in its travel case which also holds a keyboard and mouse. I was using a maxed out Mac Pro 5,1 before I switched to PC, the 8700k PC blows the 12-core Mac out of the water. I'd stay away from the cheese graters at this point. If they put an 8700k or better in an iMac it would be a great music computer. 7700k iMacs aren't bad either.


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## Olfirf (Sep 27, 2018)

cato said:


> Quick question for those of you with 6,1 Mac Pro's already - I'm seeing a lot of 256gb HD MPro's on eBay (together with D300 video cards), I'm assuming I should steer clear of those as the extra space will be needed for apps and OS right? 512gb or 1tb minimum?


I will break down my thoughts on buying a Mac Pro for you: I estimate a used price, I would pay at most, based on the prices I saw on ebay in Europe (private sales). This is for a base model with 256gb SSD and up to 16 gb of ram. The 4-core usually always has the D300 - all other models should at least have the D500. If that graphic card works, you are lucky! But I told you, there are many people who had bad luck with it and are now stuck with a badly working Mac Pro with a lot of cost to replace the graphic card. So, you can either take that risk or stay out of it ... your choice. 
4-core: 1400€
6-core: 1600€
[email protected] 3.0 GHz: 1800€
[email protected] 3.3 GHz: 1900€
10-core/12-core: 2000€
You might find more expensive offers and sometimes people paying more, but that is madness, as I have seen auctions selling for about that kind of money and those processors (6-core to 12-core) can be bought for 200-300€ and are not that hard to change.
From that, you might add up to 350€ for a bigger SSD and maybe 400€ for 64gb of ram. The 128Gb ram kit from OWC can be bought for under 1000€ from alternate. Since High Sierra you can buy Samsung Evo SSDs (up to 2Gb of internal memory, I believe). So, the included SSD should not matter that much, IMO.
If the machine still has a year or two of Apple care, that might be worth a bit more, as you have less risk.
Other thoughts:
Some used Mac pros are already user upgraded - which is more risk, I would say ... Most of the time, that is pretty obvious for Mac Pros with a D300 and more than 4 cores. You can be pretty sure, the CPU has been upgraded by the user or company. For all D500s and D700s there is an Apple exchange program, in case it has problems. As far as I know, it is still valid.
My best bet is the [email protected] 3.3 GHz the next best thing would be the 10-core and the [email protected] 3.0 GHz. Before I would consider a 12-core, I would buy a 6-core and maybe upgrade the processor later. Most important to me would be Ram, I would go for 128Gb. I never found a machine above 64 gigs online, so, I actually prefer less ram, as it will be useless to me anyway. 
Most of the time, there are 4-cores and 6-cores offered on ebay, that is why it is your best chance to get one of those for the price I estimated. With the 4-cores, you always get a D300 (never saw a 4-core with D500). So, my suggestion is: look for a 6-core with D500. That is a pretty safe bet, can be bought for not to much money and is upgradable in every way: 1.600€ + 1000€ for 128Gb if ram (or about 400€ for 64gb) + 600€ for a 2Tb SSD (you need an adapter, but that can be both really cheap) + 300€ for a new CPU
IMO, this is not REALLY well invested money, as it is really old hardware, but that is just the it is with Apple. For a iMac pro with 128Gb and 2 Tb SSD you will pay almost 10.000€ (vs 4.000€ for this machine). The iMac pro will be a bit better, but also more then two times the price.
Then again ... if you would consider going Windows, for 4.000€ you would get a machine (without monitor) that would outperform the iMac pro. But that is due to the fact, that Windows 10 performs better for audio than Mac. I still like Mac OS, as I am used to it. But the more I think about it, the more I see that I will probably jump for Windows in the end. The chances that Apple will really have better offerings for pro users in the future seems slim to me. At least, I am already using Cubase, so, there is no fear of having to learn a new DAW! 
I hope my thoughts help!


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## dcoscina (Sep 27, 2018)

cato said:


> Quick question for those of you with 6,1 Mac Pro's already - I'm seeing a lot of 256gb HD MPro's on eBay (together with D300 video cards), I'm assuming I should steer clear of those as the extra space will be needed for apps and OS right? 512gb or 1tb minimum?


you can change out the PCI-E SSD with a hex screw driver on the MP 6,1


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## dcoscina (Sep 27, 2018)

wayne_rowley said:


> I know what you mean. I'm in the same position, except I'm on a 2011 MacBook Pro.
> 
> I too am tempted by a Mac Pro, but I am going to wait to see if a Mac Mini appears in the next few weeks. I am put off slightly by the high price for 5 year old tech.
> 
> ...


I couldn't wait for another year as my 3,1 bit the dust. The 6,1 has been great so far. Quiet as all get out. I bought the base 6 core and upgraded the RAM to 64gb (128 means slower RAM). Quiet, powerful, works nicely with LPX and DP (Cubase is still funky...), and small footprint.


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## cato (Sep 28, 2018)

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on this @Olfirf - sounds like the 6-core I linked to above could be a good option with some OWC RAM then! It has a 512gb SSD HD although the 32gb of RAM is only 1066 MHz so spending £350 or so on 64gb of RAM would make it a decent machine for my needs and total around £2400. I know it's more expensive than the base model you mentioned, but 6-core MPros don't seem to pop up much on eBay in the UK from what I can see and this one seems in good nick.

@dcoscina what kind of sessions do you run on your machine out of interest (track count, AU instruments / VEPro etc.)? I tend to do relatively 'mild' hybrid orchestral work (around 50-60 track counts together with synths) but I want to get into doing some bigger sessions with some bigger templates.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 28, 2018)

cato, are you planning on this being a several-year investment?

£2400 isn't bad - looking at that machine as pure value, rather than a good price relative to what those are going for.

However, if it's just a stopgap until new models come out, a 12-core 3.46GHz 5,1 Mac Pro with 64GB of RAM is going to be under $1500 (that's about £1950). I paid $1350 for mine a 1-3/4 years ago, and they haven't lost value.

It's debatable whether you'll notice a meaningful difference in horsepower between that upgraded 5,1 and the 6,1 configuration you're looking at.

I went through the same thing when I bought the 5,1. Right now Apple isn't really offering the ideal computers for our uses.


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## cato (Sep 28, 2018)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I went through the same thing when I bought the 5,1. Right now Apple isn't really offering the ideal computers for our uses.



Hi Nick,

I actually have a 5,1 Mac Pro 8-core (I left it in London as have been mainly working in Spain on the MM), but because I now run my samples off SSD’s on a Thunderbolt 2 Blackmagic Multidock and have a Thunderbolt soundcard, I’m a bit stuck with that machine as it doesn’t support Thunderbolt...

I suppose I could try USB3 enclosures for the SSD’s (I heard that’s a viable way to use them even for streaming, right?) but I’d still need to get a new sound card. Plus Firewire isn’t supported in High Sierra I’m told meaning my options are reduced considerably and I’m keen to keep my rig portable.

You’re right when you say Apple isn’t offering the ideal computers for us at this point!


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## dcoscina (Sep 29, 2018)

cato said:


> Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on this @Olfirf - sounds like the 6-core I linked to above could be a good option with some OWC RAM then! It has a 512gb SSD HD although the 32gb of RAM is only 1066 MHz so spending £350 or so on 64gb of RAM would make it a decent machine for my needs and total around £2400. I know it's more expensive than the base model you mentioned, but 6-core MPros don't seem to pop up much on eBay in the UK from what I can see and this one seems in good nick.
> 
> @dcoscina what kind of sessions do you run on your machine out of interest (track count, AU instruments / VEPro etc.)? I tend to do relatively 'mild' hybrid orchestral work (around 50-60 track counts together with synths) but I want to get into doing some bigger sessions with some bigger templates.


I haven’t pushed it yet but I was getting 50 tracks on my MacBook Air i7 2.2ghz with only 8gb of Ram so I’m assuming my 6,1
With 64gb of ram will decimate that no problem.


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## Soundhound (Oct 20, 2018)

Another wrinkle in the mac space-time continuum. If Macs go to AMD chips in 2020—a rumor that seems to be gaining more traction—does it make sense to wait for that? And if needing something sooner, go with a used 6.1 or maybe the souped up Mac Mini if it's powerful enough when announced in 10 days?


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## Hunter123 (Oct 23, 2018)

I just bought a Mac Pro late 2013 off ebay for what seemed like a pretty good deal. 
6 core 3.5 ghz
32 gb RAM
512gb PCIe SSD 
D500
6GB GDDR5

Got it for $1,838 US. I'm currently on a 2015 Macbook Pro with 8gb ram guys, this should be big upgrade for me  I should be able to upgrade to 64ram if need be.


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## cato (Oct 25, 2018)

Ok, so an update: I too just got a Mac Pro late 2013 from eBay - has exactly the same specs as you @Hunter123 ! It was time and I managed to get it for £1550 + insured postage which cost me £115, so all in all, £1665 which I'm ok with. Fingers crossed it doesn't bum out on me! Hunter, if you're going for a RAM upgrade, I've been told OWC are decent and have good deals (that's where I'll be going anyway).

While I was waiting for the chance to get the MP late 2013, I bought a Sabrent USB 3 SSD dock here to use with my old Mac Pro 5,1 so I'm leaving a mini review for @christianb who was talking about it in another thread with me. Here's the unit:



I have had mixed experiences so far. Initially, the drives dismounted when the machine went to sleep, but I knew about that behaviour and apparently the 'disk not ejected properly' errors can be safely ignored. In terms of mounting, there's been no problem so far and the speeds seem quick. I've been able to run projects and stream a bunch of Kontakt instruments off my Samsung EVO SSD's without issue...

...however, just tonight when saving a session in Logic Pro X, I've had a few crashes which I think is due to trying to push all that read/write stuff through my Mac Pro 5,1's https://www.amazon.co.uk/Support-Inateck-Ports-Expansion-Version/dp/B00HJ1DULE/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1540506539&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=inateck+usb3+pcie+mac+pro (Inateck USB3 PCIE card). I read that unless you have individual buses for each USB3 port, then everything gets routed through the same bus and it causes problems.

I'm also using an Apogee Ensemble via Firewire on the Mac Pro 5,1 so it could well be that causing the issues as it's not supported on High Sierra (my OS) and I've had the sound cut out a few times on me.

On to the "new" Mac Pro I got off eBay and time to sell the old gear I think!

Thanks again for all the pointers here, just waiting for an insanely powerful Mac Mini (or Mac Pro!) to come out next week to pop this happiness bubble I'm in.


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## Hunter123 (Oct 26, 2018)

cato said:


> Ok, so an update: I too just got a Mac Pro late 2013 from eBay - has exactly the same specs as you @Hunter123 ! It was time and I managed to get it for £1550 + insured postage which cost me £115, so all in all, £1665 which I'm ok with. Fingers crossed it doesn't bum out on me! Hunter, if you're going for a RAM upgrade, I've been told OWC are decent and have good deals (that's where I'll be going anyway).
> 
> While I was waiting for the chance to get the MP late 2013, I bought a Sabrent USB 3 SSD dock here to use with my old Mac Pro 5,1 so I'm leaving a mini review for @christianb who was talking about it in another thread with me. Here's the unit:
> 
> ...



Hi Cato, are you planning to copy your old hard drive to the new mac pro? I'm going to do this to avoid re-installing things but I've never done it before. I was wondering if anyone knows if Migration Assistant does the same thing as something like Carbon Copy Cloner?


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## cato (Oct 26, 2018)

Hunter123 said:


> Hi Cato, are you planning to copy your old hard drive to the new mac pro? I'm going to do this to avoid re-installing things but I've never done it before. I was wondering if anyone knows if Migration Assistant does the same thing as something like Carbon Copy Cloner?



To be honest, I want to install everything from scratch as my experience is that lots of things start to (inadvertently) clutter up a system over time, but it has crossed my mind as it's a pain to reinstall everything. I usually use a bit of software called Super Duper that is similar to Carbon Copy Cloner, but it creates a bootable drive and, I think, is good for cloning only essential stuff:

https://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html

I use it for my back ups, although I'm old fashioned in that way as I do all this stuff manually and I'm sure there's a better way to automatically back things up (like Time Machine)!

Let me know what you decide in the end, I'm about to embark on setting up my Mac Pro late 2013 as well soon so will post the approach I end up on once I'm finished.


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## arwyn (Jan 3, 2019)

Hi Cato and Hunter123. A few months have passed and I was wondering how the Mac Pro 6.1 is holding up? I am looking to get a refurbished trashcan (6core/d500 card/256 int memory) Very similar to what you went for. How do you find it? Does it handle large templates?


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## cato (Jan 4, 2019)

Hi Arwyn


arwyn said:


> Hi Cato and Hunter123. A few months have passed and I was wondering how the Mac Pro 6.1 is holding up? I am looking to get a refurbished trashcan (6core/d500 card/256 int memory) Very similar to what you went for. How do you find it? Does it handle large templates?



Hi Arwyn,

It's holding up well actually. So far, I haven't pushed it as far as I normally do, but it's not shown any signs of struggle with quite a few instances of kontakt, omnisphere, UVI, Engine (Best Service) and Play. However, what would you consider a large template? I'd be happy to do a little test if you let me know how many tracks / instances you would consider taxing on a machine like this.

So far, it's been lightning quick to load up, render tracks and do pretty much everything else, especially in comparison to my previous quad core MMini server (and also compared to the old cheesegrater Mac). Sorry if that's not very specific or helpful, but let me know the answer to the above and I'll do my best to answer!

Thanks,

Cato


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## arwyn (Jan 4, 2019)

Hi Cato.

Thanks for the reply. I normally run a large template for orchestral mock ups.My Template runs up to around 700 tracks, but the majority of that is streamed in from a PC slave running VEPRO
I do have a number of instruments in the main DAW running kontakt/omnisphere etc and disabled tracks that I use as and when I need them. I obviously don't use everything at once but like to have it all up and running for convenience. The reason for upgrading is that I have recently bought an Apollox 8 so of course I need thunderbolt. At the moment I use a MacPro 5.1 with 2 3.33 6-core processors and 64gig of ram. It's great but I needed to upgrade the interface and the capability of doing live stuff.Plus been wanting to use UAD plug ins for a long time.
My gut feeling is that the 6 core trashcan would work fine as I would also run VEPRO on the cheesegrater. It's just the 256 flash memory that concerns me a bit.It has 32gigs of ram.
Thanks again for your time. I get really twitchy when choosing hardware as I am not that much of a tech guy.
All the best
Arwyn


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## cato (Jan 4, 2019)

Hey Arwyn,

That sounds like quite a large template! If you're running a 6-core Mac Pro 5.1 with that set up and are merely swapping out your main system t a 6.1 to use with a slave PC, then I doubt you'll have many problems to be honest. That said, the 256gb hd sounds a bit small if I'm honest as I find software using up more and more space on my main HD these days.

Either way, it's a very capable machine, I'd just advise against Mojave and stick with something like Sierra or High Sierra as I've heard things are more stable with those (I use High Sierra and no problems so far).

I'm jealous (in a healthy way) of your Apollo X! I'm running an Apollo Twin but have been eyeing up the Apollo X since UAD announced it. Looks like a great bit of kit.

I'm looking into getting a portable slave set up soon for VEPro, either using my old Mac Mini (not sure how that would fare) or one of these:



Out of interest, what set up on your PC slave are you using?


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## arwyn (Jan 4, 2019)

Yes Cato the hd is a worry you're right. There are others available which are more expensive but at the moment the only others have the d300 graphics card. I have heard and read from earlier posts in this thread that there can be an issue with these cards. Again not being technically minded a little knowledge can make you paranoid. I basically want to be able to do what I'm doing now mock up wise but with the Apollo thrown in. I can push a bit further budget wise but also don't want to overspend on what is by now "old gear". Although I know that a new Mac/Imac pro is beyond my budget at the moment. Maybe a PC as a DAW computer??!! And so it all starts again!!!

Talking of PC's My Slave set up is an i7-3930k @ 320ghz with 64 gigs of ram. It's a good 5yrs old by now but still going strong. I basically have nothing on it except for VePro and a load of libraries.It runs Play with Hollywood orchestra and numerous other libs, Berlin woodwinds, Lass etc.


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## arwyn (Jan 4, 2019)

Just checked the invoice for the pc slave-make that 7 years.


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## Michael Antrum (Jan 5, 2019)

I've just (last night) stuck 2 x 3.46 Ghz Xeon CPU's in my 2009 Mac Pro Cheesegrater. 

It's giving a result of 1585cb on Cinebench, and on Geekbench it's 21,890 which is rather surprising when you consider the Coffee grinder Mac Pro 2013 3 Ghz 8 core is 23,380. Apparently If I removed some RAM (2009 is triple channel) from slots 4 & 8 it would be even faster still.

I'm pretty much astounded by this from a nearly ten year old Mac. I've got a USB 3 card in it, and it's stuffed full of PCI cards running SSD's in SATA 3, and some big mechanical drives in the normal drive bays.

The only real fly in the ointment is Thunderbolt, but since I mainly use the Mac Pro as a slave to my iMac 4Gz i7 5k, I use that to host my UAD plugins with an Apollo Twin Thunderbolt

However, I understand that UAD on USB is now supported by Mac ?

If you flash the firmware to 1.40, then you get NVME support, which means speeds of around 1200 mb/s write and 1500 mb/s read.

I'm greatly looking forward to the new Mac Pro, but now I will have lots of time to save up for one and will be in no hurry.....


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