# 6 months in..... any advice???



## Chris Hutchinson (Jan 15, 2020)

Hello VI Control!

I've got back into production about a year ago. 6 months ago I saw a Daniel James vid on youtube and had no idea what these new libraries could do. (I've been out the game and in a classroom for a long time)

I've been really inspired by what I've seen and learned over that 6 months that I've started getting much more serious about composing and production, and had my fair share of GAS. so this year I thought I'd step things up and try my stuff out online.

I just got my first rejection from Pond5 today and given they have nothing in the way of useful feedback, I thought I'd try my luck throwing these tracks out to you guys and seeing if you have and advice for me?

I have Albion 1 & Solo Strings from Spitfire & Novo, Vocalise and Gravity from Heavyocity. I'm determined to call that a day for now. (like I said, mad GAS).

So yeah, would love to hear your ideas on these tracks. Is it mixing? Musical ideas? orchestration? Sound design? All of the above?? Any ideas where I should focus my efforts over the coming months before my next round of rejection would be greatly received.

Thank you all in advance!

Epic-ness




Stringyness


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 15, 2020)

Glad you got back into it, never stop!!! And don't worry about GAS, the amount of libraries you have is a fart in the wind compared to my collection. I would probably look into purchasing additional orchestral libraries, that way you can focus on your orchestration skills (Albion 1 is mostly ensemble patches). 

As far as the tracks are concerned, you are off to a good start. I have two comments...

1) They are too monotonous. In other words, they seem to drag on without any dynamics. I would also try and develop those themes a bit more.

2) Although I hear what you're trying to achieve, your programming doesn't sounds very realistic. I highly recommend scouring Youtube for videos on MIDI orchestrating; this includes understanding how to program your specific libraries. Once you start getting the hang of this, it will breath life into your sequences and your orchestral music will sound more realistic. 

I'm sure others will give you more educated advice, but these are what I think you should focus on. You're definitely off to a good start.


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## Chris Hutchinson (Jan 15, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Glad you got back into it, never stop!!! And don't worry about GAS, the amount of libraries you have is a fart in the wind compared to my collection. I would probably look into purchasing additional orchestral libraries, that way you can focus on your orchestration skills (Albion 1 is mostly ensemble patches).
> 
> As far as the tracks are concerned, you are off to a good start. I have two comments...
> 
> ...



Hi Wolfie,

Thanks for feedback. Awesome stuff. The programming has definitely not been a focus so I'll get on that and see what I can find. 

Any obvious libraries you think I should check out? You say Albion is mainly ensemble patches, how do you mean? what is it lacking in your opinion?

Thanks again man, I appreciate it.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 15, 2020)

By ensemble patches, they are just that. In Albion 1, you have no access to individual string or woodwind patches (not sure about brass). For proper orchestration, you ideally want to have the ability to program each section on it's own. In Albion 1, they blend high strings, low strings for example, so the strings are playing the exact same dynamic; and it certain circumstances, ensemble patches can start sounding like a big organ (for lack of a better term). This is great for sketching, but not ideal for the finished rendering. I often use ensemble patches when I can get away with it (of if I'm feeling lazy) for certain pieces. For full libraries, there are a lot of great contenders. For starters (and to see what I mean), have a look at EW Hollywood Orchestra, Spitfire BBCSO, 8Dio Anthology Strings, etc. If you look at the patch listings, you'll see what I mean.


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## Chris Hutchinson (Jan 15, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> By ensemble patches, they are just that. In Albion 1, you have no access to individual string or woodwind patches (not sure about brass). For proper orchestration, you ideally want to have the ability to program each section on it's own. In Albion 1, they blend high strings, low strings for example, so the strings are playing the exact same dynamic; and it certain circumstances, ensemble patches can start sounding like a big organ (for lack of a better term). This is great for sketching, but not ideal for the finished rendering. I often use ensemble patches when I can get away with it (of if I'm feeling lazy) for certain pieces. For full libraries, there are a lot of great contenders. For starters (and to see what I mean), have a look at EW Hollywood Orchestra, Spitfire BBCSO, 8Dio Anthology Strings, etc. If you look at the patch listings, you'll see what I mean.


Ah yeah, got you. That makes sense. Any links to your stuff that shows off how the orchestra should really sound?


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## mohsohsenshi (Jan 15, 2020)

I agree that you'd go for libraries with individuals sections if you compose in a more classical way.

But in modern sample library composing, ensemble patches don't always mean sounding muddy or lack of detail, it depends on how your arrangement going and how well you manage your library.

Have a look at this Spitfire's in action video, she's doing a great job and the piece sounds detailed and well balanced. I guess you can learn many useful tricks to organise your sections, to develop your theme, to improve the dynamic:


In my opinion, what you have are decent libraries, they provide the quality you need to produce nice result. The problem is the writing technique itself but not the library's limite.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 15, 2020)

mohsohsenshi said:


> I agree that you'd go for libraries with individuals sections if you compose in a more classical way.
> 
> But in modern sample library composing, ensemble patches don't always mean sounding muddy or lack of detail, it depends on how your arrangement going and how well you manage your library.
> 
> ...




Maybe it's just me, but that video doesn't help. The piece itself is not very uninspiring and it sounds very "MIDI". Just my $.02. But you are right, it also boils down to technique.


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## Chris Hutchinson (Jan 15, 2020)

mohsohsenshi said:


> I agree that you'd go for libraries with individuals sections if you compose in a more classical way.
> 
> But in modern sample library composing, ensemble patches don't always mean sounding muddy or lack of detail, it depends on how your arrangement going and how well you manage your library.
> 
> ...



Thanks Mohso, her track sounds great! I take your point. I still have a long way to go before I've exhausted what my libraries can do. Got to get stuck into the editing stuff.


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## jbuhler (Jan 15, 2020)

mohsohsenshi said:


> I agree that you'd go for libraries with individuals sections if you compose in a more classical way.
> 
> But in modern sample library composing, ensemble patches don't always mean sounding muddy or lack of detail, it depends on how your arrangement going and how well you manage your library.
> 
> ...



Also sometimes ensemble libraries, layered with libraries in parts, provide some glue to make everything a bit more cohesive. So often I find myself adding to a sketch made with Albion One, say, as much as I replace the Albion One patches with more detailed patches from something like SSO.

You can also compose very quickly to a finished track with ensemble libraries like Albion One if you compose to the library's strengths. And Albion One, for instance, is designed to fit together so the sound collectively of the patches playing together almost always sounds better (and less synthy) than the patches in isolation. You do lose quite a lot of control with an ensemble library. That is, you get the woodwinds, and an ensemble sound of them, not, say, the flutes or oboes, or a solo flute or oboe. (The various ensemble libraries take different approaches on how they divide up the ensembles into patches and in general more detail means more complexity.)


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## nolotrippen (Jan 15, 2020)

First one sounds great to me with the exception that at about the one minute mark, you could slow it down a bit and play with the dynamics (if possible) so it breathes a bit more. But overall, nice job.


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## Chris Hutchinson (Jan 15, 2020)

nolotrippen said:


> First one sounds great to me with the exception that at about the one minute mark, you could slow it down a bit and play with the dynamics (if possible) so it breathes a bit more. But overall, nice job.


Great, thanks. I think I kept things loud as my insecurities lead me to believe loud=interesting


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## Chris Hutchinson (Jan 15, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> Also sometimes ensemble libraries, layered with libraries in parts, provide some glue to make everything a bit more cohesive. So often I find myself adding to a sketch made with Albion One, say, as much as I replace the Albion One patches with more detailed patches from something like SSO.
> 
> You can also compose very quickly to a finished track with ensemble libraries like Albion One if you compose to the library's strengths. And Albion One, for instance, is designed to fit together so the sound collectively of the patches playing together almost always sounds better (and less synthy) than the patches in isolation. You do lose quite a lot of control with an ensemble library. That is, you get the woodwinds, and an ensemble sound of them, not, say, the flutes or oboes, or a solo flute or oboe. (The various ensemble libraries take different approaches on how they divide up the ensembles into patches and in general more detail means more complexity.)


I've been struggling with that 'synthy' sound a lot. It seems a fine balancing act with the volume and automation from what I can tell. It takes more time than I've given it credit for. I just can't get the woodwind patches sounding any good at all, I never touch them!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 15, 2020)

Chris Hutchinson said:


> Ah yeah, got you. That makes sense. Any links to your stuff that shows off how the orchestra should really sound?



On my website you can visit the Music page to hear some of my samples. This is probably not how an orchestra should really sound LOL! But, you can hear some dynamics and different sections in action.


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## jbuhler (Jan 15, 2020)

Chris Hutchinson said:


> I've been struggling with that 'synthy' sound a lot. It seems a fine balancing act with the volume and automation from what I can tell. It takes more time than I've given it credit for. I just can't get the woodwind patches sounding any good at all, I never touch them!


And I find the woodwinds—especially the shorts and the legatos—to be pretty easy to use. I also find the Live patch for the woodwinds in the Originals to be excellent for sketching woodwinds. I find the brass in particular don't sound especially good alone but in a full mix they usually sound ok. (The brass is still the first thing I replace, and I almost always replace the A1 brass rather than simply supplementing with layers.) The strings alone can sound synthy, especially if you don't keep the modwheel and expression sliders moving, but to a lesser degree than the brass. At least in my experience.


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