# Building a decent Surround Homestudio



## Luke Christensen (Sep 24, 2022)

Hello everybody, 

I'm building my first own studio on a more professional level and I would like to get some advice from those of you who are already working in surround .

I'm ready to buy new gear. My goal is not to build a studio thats super high end, but one that solid and professional enough to deliver good work for film and television as a composer. I would like to buy gear thats reasonable and not gear that necessary to help me to achieve the last 5% of perfection for the money.

I'm looking for recommendations for 
a) studio monitors to choose (I think a quad setup would be enough?)
b) audio interface to choose

What is the typical standard gear amongst composers used by professionals?

Do you have some additional advice on room treatment? I can imagine room treatment for a quad setup is a lot harder than for a stereo setup...
I'm planning to use additionally the new multichannel feature by Sonarworks. 

Thank you all for your advice!
Best regards
Luke


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## Luke Christensen (Oct 4, 2022)

No one working in quad or higher?


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## muk (Oct 4, 2022)

Hi Luke,

Over at gearspace.com are probably more people who can help you with these kind of questions. For studio speakers, check out audiosciencereviews.com. For audio interfaces, RME has a good reputation for low-latency, stable drivers. There is a latency-database for audio interfaces on gearspace. Definitely a good resource to check out.


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## CSS_SCC (Oct 4, 2022)

I don't know what you mean by "solid" studio but here is a good starting point:








Mixing Music For Dolby Atmos - The ADAM Audio Guide | Production Expert


With streaming platforms offering Dolby Atmos and major record company support from the likes of Universal, it is clear Dolby Atmos is here to stay. This 4 part free video series from ADAM Audio is aimed at Music mixers who want to know more about Dolby Atmos.




www.pro-tools-expert.com





Personally, and I am just dipping my toes in this, I am using Nuendo 12, Focusrite Red and RedNet gear (the Red 16Line that was supposed to be the core of the setup is now 6 months overdue from the original delivery date), 7.1.4 speaker setup (Focal) and Denon AVR. But there is so much to learn.


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## CSS_SCC (Oct 4, 2022)

P.S.: https://learning.dolby.com/hc/en-us/sections/4406037447828-Dolby-Atmos-Music-Training


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## Luke Christensen (Oct 11, 2022)

@CSS_SCC Wow thanks a lot for the video. Very helpful!


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## fakemaxwell (Oct 11, 2022)

My decent surround home studio is this:

5X Neumann KH 80
2X Neumann KH 750
RME UFX+

A subwoofer is definitely necessary. I would recommend getting a 5th speaker for the C channel and routing your dialogue to it, it's how it will be mixed. Fine to then deliver in quad.

Room treatment isn't any harder- the more bass traps you have is always better, especially in small rooms. That being said, save yourself the anxiety headache over everything being perfect. You're at home, it's very unlikely that you're going to erect a perfect studio.


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## Fitz (Oct 11, 2022)

I disagree that a sub is necessary at home… In fact I would advise against it. Your mix will live on the mains.
whats your budget on the speakers? And you absolutely need to treat the room…


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## Luke Christensen (Oct 12, 2022)

@Fitz Thanks for your reply. I hear a lot of different opinions concerning a sub. Thanks for your input. 

Regarding my budget for the speakers, I'm willing to spend as much as necessary to get a decent professional setup to compete in the industry. But I don't want to spent several thousands extra to get the last 10% of perfection. If I have to drop a number I was imagining around 1k to 1.5k per speaker. If more is necessary to get a good setup I will also consider this. 

So far I'm considering Genelecs, Neumann, Focal and also Adams. Especially the new A7v have drawn my attention due to the SonarWorks DSP possibility. But I have not find many reviews about them so far....


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## Fitz (Oct 12, 2022)

You need to hear the speakers you will be using, and compare. Do you live near a place you can test studio monitors?

you Need to treat your room as well, so save budget for that. And not just “egg crate foam”. You need proper treatment, you can build these yourself with proper fiberglass foam if you search YouTube.

at the end of the day, no One but you will see your setup 99% of the time. So “competing” in this industry is less about your gear, and more about what you can do with the gear you have. So get Decent professional monitors, treat your room, and start writing!

oh and one more thing, you “surrounds“ don’t need to be the same as your mains. You can get cheaper JBL surrounds to start to do the trick.


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## Luke Christensen (Oct 12, 2022)

Yeah I plan to do a comparison testing at a music store and I try also to get temporary two or three models in my own room to do the final selection. I'm just curios what others recommend... And also considering my researches so far the process of picking speakers seems to be just a personal preference thing and does not really matter on a engineering / scientific level?? You just pick which speaker sounds best to you? I have imagined there a certain speaker classics which are well known for translating very well?

Yes I will do of course room treatment. I'm aware that the room is way more important than the speaker. I planning to build my own acoustic panels as you have mentioned above. At the moment I'm only concerned about the typical used mineral wool due to possible fibers flying around.... I researched also about alternative materials like e.g. denim insulation but it seems to be not available in my country....


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## Fitz (Oct 12, 2022)

I used the fiber material. As long as you wrap it, I wouldn’t be overly concerned. 

FWIW, I use Questeds as my mains


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## gsilbers (Oct 12, 2022)

Luke Christensen said:


> Yeah I plan to do a comparison testing at a music store and I try also to get temporary two or three models in my own room to do the final selection. I'm just curios what others recommend... And also considering my researches so far the process of picking speakers seems to be just a personal preference thing and does not really matter on a engineering / scientific level?? You just pick which speaker sounds best to you? I have imagined there a certain speaker classics which are well known for translating very well?
> 
> Yes I will do of course room treatment. I'm aware that the room is way more important than the speaker. I planning to build my own acoustic panels as you have mentioned above. At the moment I'm only concerned about the typical used mineral wool due to possible fibers flying around.... I researched also about alternative materials like e.g. denim insulation but it seems to be not available in my country....



For speakers theres been some very good offerings lately from Focal, Eve audio, Hedd, Barefoot, Adam and Neuman. JBL is also good for the 7 and 5 series. 
Yes its about preference and also budget. The thing is... that currently these companies have released a new type of spekaers based on Class D amps, a tech previously regarded as cheap and low quality compared to class a/b now class d is everything. Focal shapes, all of hedd and eve audio, barefoot footprints02, dynaudio lyd48.
I had some focals solo6 and changed to eve audio sc307 and they where great. So depending on what you want to spend but sometimes the class d will be about as good as the class a/b (focal be6 line, neuman, etc) but more affordable. 
At the same time, its no where near the real "pro" monitors starting at $3-5k each. So id say anyhting above the yamaha, event, krk, jbl305 stuff youd be in profesional territory. 

Also, you can spend big bucks on the stereo fronts and get smaller surrounds. like focal offers the big chapes 3 way and the smaller 2 way shapes. Same with eve audio sc3070 and sc205 and each company has something like this.. jusrt don't mix and match outside the model line or brand. 

For surround work i think quad is enough, but many poeple find the center speaker usefull and also a subwoofer. Subwoofer in movies will not have music except in rare ocassions and normally the rerecording engineer will do that as they have a much bigger space to mix and can see if there are effects that can be better there. 

Translation is a funky word as learning your speakers and listening in others devices will help with that using any speakers. With that said, most mixers use something like yamaha ns10 or auratone or even TV speakers to make sure the mid range sounds acurate and balanced. But any of the aformentioend spekaers do a good job of having a balanced freq response and a lot of times its very subjective and even diferent on specific rooms. 

Its a lot to ponder and theres a lot of options out there. The speakers above are the ones ie seen the most in studios from all range of composers. (neuman is also another one). And also different brands get better marketing or chnage over time like hans zimmer having the quested speakers which are a little higher priced than some of the above but not by much. or Genelecs might be more famous from commercial studios up to 2008.. and for example joe trapanese started using the jbl 705 series because those are the ones being used the most in los angeles post studios and he wanted to make sure his mixes sounded good in the rerecording stage. 

The room acustics is a big grey area where everyone assumes you want a super duper sound proof and treated area or that you are a moron and dont know anything. The truth lies in a huge area where it depends. You can see junkie xl videos and studios where he doesnt pay too much attention to acoustics and noramlly a decent room that sounds ok will be adequate and some room treatment to avoid echo or sub bass getting out of hand will be more than enough. I suggest checking out instagram accounts of studios pictures and seeing kinda what poeple have for acoustics. Get one of those packages from these acoustic companies and just work it out w/o going too deep.


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## ZeroZero (Oct 12, 2022)

I regularly compose in stereo first and then transition to 5.1. Listening with a big sub can be wearyiing. I turn mine off. I have pm'd you my system


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## fakemaxwell (Oct 12, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> Subwoofer in movies will not have music except in rare ocassions





Fitz said:


> I disagree that a sub is necessary at home… In fact I would advise against it. Your mix will live on the mains.


I think we're talking about different things. The subwoofer isn't for sending to the Lfe channel, it's for bass management. None of these 4-6 inch speakers are going to accurately output below 100Hz, and there's a ton of information there for low strings, low brass, low everything. 

I don't have my surrounds plugged into the subwoofers and it's a world of difference. It also shouldn't be wearying to listen to correctly tuned speaker/subwoofer combos.


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## HCMarkus (Oct 12, 2022)

You don't have to run the sub all the time, but I find a sub is critical when checking low-end balances doing mixing, no matter the format, and to be sure no thumps or bumps or rumbles slip into the mix. Footswitch or button on your monitor controller is great for turning sub on and off.

I work mostly in stereo (with subs) but, if I need to deliver surround, have a consumer surround setup that I use to spread selected elements of the stereo mix around once everything is sounding solid in stereo.


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## cedricm (Oct 13, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> For speakers theres been some very good offerings lately from Focal, Eve audio, Hedd, Barefoot, Adam and Neuman. JBL is also good for the 7 and 5 series.
> Yes its about preference and also budget. The thing is... that currently these companies have released a new type of spekaers based on Class D amps, a tech previously regarded as cheap and low quality compared to class a/b now class d is everything. Focal shapes, all of hedd and eve audio, barefoot footprints02, dynaudio lyd48.
> I had some focals solo6 and changed to eve audio sc307 and they where great. So depending on what you want to spend but sometimes the class d will be about as good as the class a/b (focal be6 line, neuman, etc) but more affordable.
> At the same time, its no where near the real "pro" monitors starting at $3-5k each. So id say anyhting above the yamaha, event, krk, jbl305 stuff youd be in profesional territory.
> ...


That's the difference between film and audio surround : as far as I know for movies, you don't touch the center channel, which is reserved for dialogs, and use the sub woofer channel very sparsely, if at all. 
I assume it's not the case for pure music.


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## CSS_SCC (Oct 13, 2022)

When I went from 5.1 (all Focal) to 7.1.4 I have asked Focal support about their opinion on the rest of the setup (about two years ago, before the current Evo and ST6 series) and, at least the support person that I have talked to, was of the opinion that adding any four Focal Shape speakers for the height channels would be fine. I have added the smallest ones - Focal 40 - that I found in a local store on quite a heavy discount as they were display models.

With regards to sub/no sub, my prefference is to have the sub always on even though my main speakers Focal Trio 6BE are rated 35Hz - 40kHz and the Focal Sub6 is "only" 5Hz lower (30Hz - 250Hz). To my ears it makes a difference. Center, rear and side speakers are Focal Solo6 BE (40Hz - 40kHz)

Before I went one price bracket up, I have tried two other different setups on 5.1 (Focal that I had, plus Adam Audio and Yamaha - at the time they were on almost identical budgets) and I was not pleased with how they sounded. But, as always, the sound quality to your ears is very subjective and it's beyond any hard numbers. Not saying to ignore the technical details but just try to get the setup (or at least part of it) and test it for a few days on your own space. It's a mess to set them up side by side and do A/B/C testing but it's really worth it long-term. In my case I really took advantage of the Mackie Big Knob Studio+ to test the speakers.

As test pieces I am using (if possible I am listening to the whole albums):
- Nicanor Zabaleta - Boieldieu, Saint-Saëns, Tailleferre, Ravel: Harp Concertos - Concerto in C major for Harp and Orchestra - 3. Rondeau. Allegro agitato
- Kitaro - Oasis - Aqua
- Kodō – Honoka - Mikuni, O-Daiko
- Mercedes Sosa - Acústico En Vivo - El Cosechero
- Louis Armstrong – The Great Chicago Concert (1956) - Clarinet Marmalade (Live)
- Devin Townsend Project - The Retinal Circus (Live) - War

When I am testing, I go to my car (compact 2008 model, standard speakers), my old Logitech X-530 (5.1) and Logitech Z-523 (2.1), to the integrated speakers in my 32" Benq monitor and to my different headphones and smartphones. If it sounds decent, then it's fine.


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## HCMarkus (Oct 13, 2022)

cedricm said:


> That's the difference between film and audio surround : as far as I know for movies, you don't touch the center channel, which is reserved for dialogs, and use the sub woofer channel very sparsely, if at all.
> I assume it's not the case for pure music.


As has been mentioned, inmost smaller studios, the sub is sourced via bass management due to the lack of lowest octaves reproduction from the main and surround speakers. No music is put in the sub track. No music is put in the center track either, but it is nice to be able to hear the dialog there when mixing.


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## gsilbers (Oct 14, 2022)

cedricm said:


> That's the difference between film and audio surround : as far as I know for movies, you don't touch the center channel, which is reserved for dialogs, and use the sub woofer channel very sparsely, if at all.
> I assume it's not the case for pure music.


Its not set in stone or any specs what happens in the center channel. Sometimes there is some sfx or mx. But yeah, filmscore deliveries should remain out of the center.
At the same time, having a center speaker can be great to use for the dialogue/fx you get from the editors and easy to just mute/unmmute/reference. 

Same with sub, there is no real spec as to what gets sent there or how much but normally filtered out so its only sub freq. For action films its very active. but also, nothing for music. With that said, its so cool to have the sub for music as it makes you "feel it"... yet.. deliveries should remain without stuff there and have a stem deliverable for sub and have the mixer decide.


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## AR (Oct 14, 2022)

Well, I have a "uncertified" Dolby Atmos 7.1.2 setup. It consists of 2 Neumann Kh120 with a KH805 Bass Extender (not 0.1 Sub), a K+H center speaker (pretty much the same as the KH120), 4 KRK Rokits for the Mid and Surrounds (I know shame on me for those), a JBL Subwoofer for the LFE and 2 ESI nEar 05 for the ceiling speakers. 
Why not 7.1.6 you may ask? Well, I have a RME Adat card in my computer which can deliver so many outputs, but I only have 2 great RME DA converters. Then I need some extra stereo outputs for headphones, monitoring in the room next door and musician headphones. Plus, Spitfire and Orchestral Tools libraries come mostly in 6.0 (except for some, that have Gallery mics). 
For this, I had to swith from Cubase to Nuendo. Pitty. But well, I got over it. I do the 6.0 upmixing with Cinematic Rooms, which ads the ceiling "atmos". The center will be untouched and therefor I dailed the center down in Cinematic Rooms (by default it is switched on).
The center and the sub are only for movie dialogs or some very lo end percussion. You have to be careful how you print those perc. stems. The wrong way would be leaving all the lo freq for the 0.1 sub, and narrowing the sound of a taiko towards the center speaker. The right way would be, doubling the frequencies from the stereo source to the sub and making a strong cut @ 80-120hz, dailing it back a bit while spreading the stereo source across LCR. The worst scenario would be: The dubbing mixer doesn't like your taiko fiddling around in the center speaker. So he mutes that part. Or the taiko sub interferes with some fx. So he mutes that one. But your overall sound stays the same.

Ok, so back to some of your questions. Quad won't be enough. I'd say at least 5.0. You have to think of it as your music (let's say in Quad) against the center speaker (dialog). And dialog is king. So you will mix and compose your music quite different. I don't know if you'll need a subwoofer. I have one just for entertainement purpose. The movie scenes I get at that early stage have no LFE mixed in yet.

Soundcard: You need one that has 8 or more outputs. Why so? Lets say you stay in 5.1 that takes 6 outputs. You still need 2 more outputs to check your stereo downmix on headphones or stereo monitors back. While your template will be in surround you'll need another 2.0 channel which has some Downmix plugin on it (I use one by NuGen Audio). 

I took Alan Meyerson's advice and invested in better room treatment, than in expensive speakers and I'm happy about it.

Be aware how much more CPU horse power you will need, to playback all these microphone signals! I was really shocked by the amount of poly voices that came together in a tutti passage. Not to mention the energy the whole studio sucks up, when all these monitors and computers are fired on.

Personally I wanned the Dolby Atmos mix sound polished and not raw out of the box. My main computer plays back all the samples. There is just some eqing going on before they are summed to sub-busses, which leave the computer via VEPro to several dedicated computers that handle only mixing of the busses with several compressors, saturation, widening, etc. These stems come back in 7.1 to my main computer in several groups like bells, harps, hi strings leg., hi strings short, etc. Then they are summed to their dedicated group busses like "hi perc", get their proper reverb and are printed out as stems (dry/reverb). So on my main computer, there is no limiter, compressor or so on my "main out". That is very important for the dubbing mixer. Only if he/she unmutes all these stems, he/she gets the "true" sound.


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## gsilbers (Oct 23, 2022)

AR said:


> Well, I have a "uncertified" Dolby Atmos 7.1.2 setup. It consists of 2 Neumann Kh120 with a KH805 Bass Extender (not 0.1 Sub), a K+H center speaker (pretty much the same as the KH120), 4 KRK Rokits for the Mid and Surrounds (I know shame on me for those), a JBL Subwoofer for the LFE and 2 ESI nEar 05 for the ceiling speakers.
> Why not 7.1.6 you may ask? Well, I have a RME Adat card in my computer which can deliver so many outputs, but I only have 2 great RME DA converters. Then I need some extra stereo outputs for headphones, monitoring in the room next door and musician headphones. Plus, Spitfire and Orchestral Tools libraries come mostly in 6.0 (except for some, that have Gallery mics).
> For this, I had to swith from Cubase to Nuendo. Pitty. But well, I got over it. I do the 6.0 upmixing with Cinematic Rooms, which ads the ceiling "atmos". The center will be untouched and therefor I dailed the center down in Cinematic Rooms (by default it is switched on).
> The center and the sub are only for movie dialogs or some very lo end percussion. You have to be careful how you print those perc. stems. The wrong way would be leaving all the lo freq for the 0.1 sub, and narrowing the sound of a taiko towards the center speaker. The right way would be, doubling the frequencies from the stereo source to the sub and making a strong cut @ 80-120hz, dailing it back a bit while spreading the stereo source across LCR. The worst scenario would be: The dubbing mixer doesn't like your taiko fiddling around in the center speaker. So he mutes that part. Or the taiko sub interferes with some fx. So he mutes that one. But your overall sound stays the same.
> ...


Im assuming filmscore. Do re-recording mixers talk about this before hand and what they need and do you have "objects" stems? Do you mostly use the front left/right and the rest is practically Ciematic Rooms reverb?

Ive heard some mixers rather dial in their own reverb or pan stuff and also use stereo stems in case of edits etc.
I know they can create several 7.1 beds so maybe they just drop in music to one of these and thats it or theres more 

My post days are far being in 5.1 days so not sure whats the standard and if its for all distributors levels.


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## wsimpson (Oct 31, 2022)

What are you all using for monitor control? As I understand it that is for adjusting the volume on monitors without messing up the callibration, but I could have that wrong. Pretty new to all of this.


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## AudioLoco (Nov 1, 2022)

So, people who deliver deliverables in 5.1(or more) directly to the dubbing mixer:

-Do you just mute the center channel and send absolutely nothing to it?
-Or you (gently) do spread stuff on it with panning, and/or with a dedicated mono reverb or divergence? Do you use divergence?

Is there a general consensus on this or are there different schools of thought?

Cheers!


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## CSS_SCC (Nov 2, 2022)

wsimpson said:


> What are you all using for monitor control? As I understand it that is for adjusting the volume on monitors without messing up the callibration, but I could have that wrong. Pretty new to all of this.











Monitor Controller Systems That Support Formats Like Dolby Atmos In 2022 | Production Expert


Following our article Six Monitor Controllers You Need To Check Out In 2022 we were asked for an article covering monitor controllers that support immersive audio formats like Dolby Atmos. Take a look at Dolby Atmos monitor controllers available in 2022.




www.pro-tools-expert.com





For room correction in software that is compatible with some AV receivers (includes VST, AAX, and AU plugins):








Studio Audio for Creatives - Dirac


Studio Audio for Creators Dirac Live takes your soundstage to the next level Dirac Live applies its patented algorithms, years of audio research, and cooperation with studios worldwide to bring you a level of clarity and a soundstage that will take your breath away.




www.dirac.com





Professional AV preprocessor that can be integrated in a studio with Dante and balanced XLR out (but they are very pricy):
https://www.jblsynthesis.com/products/electronics/SDP58-.html (approx £6000)
https://www.jblsynthesis.com/products/electronics/SDP-55-.html (approx £5500)

AVRs with balanced XLR out at lower prices and obviously way less functions and integration (be careful about their firmware updates - some of them are quite buggy):
https://emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xmc-2 (approx £2,100)
https://www.iotaenterprises.co.uk/products/iotavx-avx17 (approx £1,600)
https://en.tonewinner.com/tonewinne...-9-3-4-7-3-6-bluetooth-pre-amplifier_p14.html (about (£1,400)


Some prices (in UK):





Atmos - Atmos - Monitor Controllers - SX Pro







sxpro.co.uk





Depends on what you already have as hardware and software and, as always, your budget...


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## AR (Nov 2, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> Im assuming filmscore. Do re-recording mixers talk about this before hand and what they need and do you have "objects" stems? Do you mostly use the front left/right and the rest is practically Ciematic Rooms reverb?
> 
> Ive heard some mixers rather dial in their own reverb or pan stuff and also use stereo stems in case of edits etc.
> I know they can create several 7.1 beds so maybe they just drop in music to one of these and thats it or theres more
> ...


Well, the Spitfire libraries come in 5.1/7.1 (even some in atmos) and I use these mics in that way. Cinematic Rooms is just the best sounding surround reverb on all these channels. That's why I use it. I sometimes use a bit of Altiverb or others to give the sound a little bit of movement but never think of these reverbs as "surround-makers". The mix will get all muddy and reverb-ish.

The thing about mixers is...if you give them a stereo soundtrack, they (best case) do just a upmix with plugins. That is so terrible. There is no movement of sound throughout the whole theater. Plus, the music will be killed by sound effects, cause theses for sure are in created in surround. I'm taking about dB and sound pressure levels.

You have to listen to a 5.1 soundtrack on a 5.1 system to understand what I mean. You literally get the feeling of being in the recording room or a concert hall. But in Atmos? That is even more delightful. 

So, speaking of a good compromise 5.0 is a good budget speaker system (counting the room treatment in). From there on the dubbing mixer can do upmixes that can keep up with the rest of sound design.
Plus, your CPU will be happy about the ressources and voice-counts on projects.


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## AR (Nov 2, 2022)

AudioLoco said:


> So, people who deliver deliverables in 5.1(or more) directly to the dubbing mixer:
> 
> -Do you just mute the center channel and send absolutely nothing to it?
> -Or you (gently) do spread stuff on it with panning, and/or with a dedicated mono reverb or divergence? Do you use divergence?
> ...


Some Contrabasses or Taikos or low low stuff go in there (I'd say 20%). I sometimes use the Leapwing CenterOne plugin. It has a LCR option. It gives a little bit more punch. BUT, the dubbing mixer can mute this channel for music, so you have to mix the music that it won't fall apart.

I hope that answers your question.


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## AR (Nov 2, 2022)

wsimpson said:


> What are you all using for monitor control? As I understand it that is for adjusting the volume on monitors without messing up the callibration, but I could have that wrong. Pretty new to all of this.


I use the RME Arc USB controller. I know some say you loose sound information by dialing down gain, but all the great monitor controllers cost huge amount of money, that is better spent on speakers. With the Arc USB I'm able to have many configurations in no-time. Say, I just wanna hear the surround mics, I push the programmed button and off I go. Cool little thing, if you work with RME gear.


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## AudioLoco (Nov 3, 2022)

AR said:


> Some Contrabasses or Taikos or low low stuff go in there (I'd say 20%). I sometimes use the Leapwing CenterOne plugin. It has a LCR option. It gives a little bit more punch. BUT, the dubbing mixer can mute this channel for music, so you have to mix the music that it won't fall apart.
> 
> I hope that answers your question.


Thanks!


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