# Good FMod, Fabric or Wwise online courses?



## AVaudio (Mar 29, 2016)

Hi there,

First of all, the only thread I have been able to found on VI about the topic is that one:

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/anyone-here-have-worked-with-fmod-or-wwise.32737/

So apologies if there is already a better one on VI-Control.

Long story made short, I've lost a couple of Sound Design / Composition projects lately for not knowing how to use these middleware solutions. I have worked in a few AAA projects were I only had to pass the assets to the programmers, but it looks like that kind of thing is over.

I have a solid background in linear audio treatment of all kinds, and also learned c#, Unity an Unreal, but apparently these middleware platforms are becoming essential to work in videogames/interactive audio as a Sound Designer or even Composer for a lot of projects in the mid-range market, as I am finding out in my latest applications.

So, apart from downloading and studying the platforms on your own, if any of you has done an online course on the topic that really worked for him/her, that is very cost-effective and hopefully not too long, that would be really helpful, as kids and work are quite time-consuming at the moment! (I am sure many can relate to that  ).


Thanks in advance,
Aleix


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## Kaufmanmoon (Mar 29, 2016)

Good post.
I know Thinkspace are going to start one covering some of this but I'm not sure what qualifications you may need to enter the course. (if any)


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## AVaudio (Mar 29, 2016)

Kaufmanmoon said:


> Good post.
> I know Thinkspace are going to start one covering some of this but I'm not sure what qualifications you may need to enter the course. (if any)


Thanks for that, for sure I will keep them in my radar. I heard some of the orchestral mixing ones are really good. I will keep looking but apparently there's not a lot of stuff. 

This one keeps coming up, it would be nice to hear about somebody that did it. I am bit a bit surprised that not more people is chiming in. Maybe I will try in Gearslutz, as VI seems to be more strictly music oriented. 

http://School.VideoGameAudio.com.


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## dannthr (Mar 29, 2016)

I've taught WWISE for about 4 or so years--before they started their "certification" and I can tell you that learning C#/Unity or UE4/BluePrints (or UDK/Kismet) is way more complicated than anything WWISE or FMOD can dish out.

If you can learn Unity or Unreal, you can learn the crap out of FMOD and WWISE.

You're welcome to ask me any questions you might have or you can post questions here. There are a stack of video tutorials out there on the Internets that should be able to give you a good head-start, what do you feel is missing from your info so far?


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## AVaudio (Mar 30, 2016)

dannthr said:


> I've taught WWISE for about 4 or so years--before they started their "certification" and I can tell you that learning C#/Unity or UE4/BluePrints (or UDK/Kismet) is way more complicated than anything WWISE or FMOD can dish out.
> 
> If you can learn Unity or Unreal, you can learn the crap out of FMOD and WWISE.
> 
> You're welcome to ask me any questions you might have or you can post questions here. There are a stack of video tutorials out there on the Internets that should be able to give you a good head-start, what do you feel is missing from your info so far?



Hi dannthr, thanks a lot for your reply.

My initial impression is confirmed, then, in regards of FMod or Wwise being "a lot easier" for a sound guy.

When I realized the classic audio jobs were banishing or were being heavily devaluated in my region, I had to somehow find my path into games as that was, I believed, where the revenue was going. So while working on a few linear projects, I took the plunge, downloaded Unity and did a project from scratch, covering pretty much everything save anims and shaders in detail. Because some clients wanted Unreal, I did a similar thing but shorter and with less detail (blueprints and classes only), as there's a lot of common ground.

That was 3 years ago, when I had plenty of time at night. But now I am a father of two and I am very busy with other projects, that luckily still expect only assets from me, so I can't really face another "hit and miss" time intensive process of self-teaching again. I need a course, or a tutor, that will guide me in the fastest, most flexible and effective way possible to get me there, hopefully, before the end of summer. If I end up with a finished show-reel also, it would be ideal. I need to land more gigs for the next half of the year. What I'm missing is TIME, basically  !

I do have a few immediate questions:

1. Do you really think Wwise / FMod knowledge is essential to land more SFX / Composer gigs in the videogame industry today as a Sound Designer? Talking about mid-market range here, as I realize most AAA projects develop custom tools.
2. Which one do you think is the most likely to win the upper hand, in other words, which one to prioritize?
3. I have been asked generically if I knew about any other "plugins" for mixing in Unreal, in one of my past job interviews. Other than Wwise, FMod or Fabric. Do you know of any other tools worthy of study to enhance a resumé?
4. Is the Wwise certification worth it?

Thanks a lot in advance, and apologies if my english is a bit faulty, as it's not my main language.

Aleix


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## dannthr (Mar 30, 2016)

Hey Aleix, great questions!

1) There are many things at play here in your first question, so I will try to address them one at a time:
- Mid-market gigs are far and few between, a lot of the contract SFX/Composer work is for smaller indie houses who probably have a project that sits just above the licensing threshold for WWISE and FMOD and won't license them for use.
- In-House gigs at larger studios will have HR people looking for keywords on your resume who have no insight into actual audio production and are just checkboxing your skills--this is where putting FMOD and WWISE on your resume is most important.
- AAA Projects may or may not have custom tools (Mass Effect 2 and 3, for example, used WWISE for its music system and Unreal Engine 3's native audio engine for sound), but saying you know how to use tools does clue the hiring manager in that you can handle what they throw your way.

2) FMOD Designer was a bit of a bust, as far as I'm concerned, learning certain things were pretty quick, but for music it was abysmal. FMOD Studio is much improved in this area. Personally, I prefer WWISE--it has a very non-audio-person interface, but once you wrap your head around the logical hierarchy, you can build just about anything. FMOD's interface is more audio-person-friendly, but you have to bend a bit more to get the interaction you want.

I don't think one is better than the other, generally speaking. FMOD has been releasing plug-in versions of its software for UE4 for longer than WWISE (WWISE is still developing theirs), so that's one thing FMOD has over WWISE.

3) WWISE and FMOD are the main cats on the stage for audio middleware, Fabric is up-and-coming, there are old classics like Miles Sound System which is the audio companion to Bink Video, but I've never used it. I actually LIKE Unreal Engine's internal/native mixing hierarchy (its SoundClass system), but it's a network node system, not an audio summing system.

4) Hmmm, I might be a bad person to ask about that one. I would not get the certification for its own sake (that is to say, I am not going to pay to be certified), but if AudioKinetic wants to certify me for free, I'll do it, why not? However, for you, if you feel strongly about tackling this with a teacher, then a certification attached to a proper course might be a nice path to take. It might be resume glitter for the HR person, but I don't think an audio director would take it too seriously.

Kind of like how no studio cares if you have a Pro Tools certification, it's just something for Avid to sell.


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## AVaudio (Mar 31, 2016)

dannthr said:


> Hey Aleix, great questions!
> 
> 1) There are many things at play here in your first question, so I will try to address them one at a time:
> - Mid-market gigs are far and few between, a lot of the contract SFX/Composer work is for smaller indie houses who probably have a project that sits just above the licensing threshold for WWISE and FMOD and won't license them for use.
> ...



Hey Dan,

That's a great post, thanks a lot.

1.I have personally found a couple market projects that were actually using them, but I can understand that most indie companies don't have the money to license that on top of whatever engine they use. Thanks for the tip on how important is it for recruiters, and also the one about AAA's wanting you to be at least engine-savvy, even if they don't use them.

2. Sounds like I need to learn both, but probably FMOD is more of a priority for me, then.

3. Will read a bit more about Fabric: I also like the UE Class approach, but as you say, it's a bit tricky in terms of summing.

4. I understand the title it's just glitter, I was just concerned about it featuring useful content.

I will try to find a course that introduces me to both and that hopefully provides indications and material to end up with a nice looking reel.

Thanks a lot for such a detailed and insightful response. That was most helpful.

Aleix


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## Kaufmanmoon (Jan 24, 2017)

Hey @AVaudio Did you wrap your head around FMOD?


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