# Articulation Sets not working in Logic X-VePro 7



## Amoli (Apr 10, 2020)

Hi! I'm trying to use articulation sets (Art conductor) in Logic X in combination with VePro 7in a single computer.Articulation sets only works with first set of sub 16 channels for each instance of VEPro (ex: VePro 1_1_1 or 3_1_5).Otherwise the articulation sets don't seem to work.Did anybody experienced anything similar?
Thanks


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Apr 10, 2020)

Sorry, not an Art Conductor user here. Hopefully someone will step in offer some advice, but I was going to say if you have not already... reach out to the developer with those issues. Then you have two places to keep tabs


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 10, 2020)

Tell us a little more specifics about your LogicPro project setup.


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## Amoli (Apr 10, 2020)

Sure thanks! I'm using a MacPro 5,1 6 core with 96 GB of RAM with the latest versions of Logic X and VePro 7.
I have a fairly large template using a single computer with VePro and Logic.When I open an empty Logic file without VePro and create a Kontakt instance and I use articulation sets everything works fine with all my libraries whether is Cinesamples, Berlin or Spitfire (using UACC KS).
When I reopen my template with VePro the articulation sets don't work anymore.Is there anything I'm missing?Something particular about VePro-Kontakt and articulation sets?


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 10, 2020)

We need more information about how you have your project template setup. Are you using environment objects? How many tracks per VePro instance? Are you using the AU3 plugin? Did you try to base it on VSL's beta AU3 project templates? How are your tracks configured? Are they set to midi channel ALL or a specific channel? What about the port setting? Do you have a separate articulationSet for each track?


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## Matt Riley (May 18, 2020)

Amoli said:


> Hi! I'm trying to use articulation sets (Art conductor) in Logic X in combination with VePro 7in a single computer.Articulation sets only works with first set of sub 16 channels for each instance of VEPro (ex: VePro 1_1_1 or 3_1_5).Otherwise the articulation sets don't seem to work.Did anybody experienced anything similar?
> Thanks


Did you ever figure this out? I'm thinking about buying Art Conductor.


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## Amoli (May 19, 2020)

No I haven't....:-(. Art Conductor works great when they work (for me) though...


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## babylonwaves (May 22, 2020)

Amoli said:


> No I haven't....:-(. Art Conductor works great when they work (for me) though...


you know, you really should get in touch with VSL support. I was talking to them recently and basically they've told me that as for Articulation Sets and Expression Maps, VEPRO is totally transparent. Mind that all those maps only send MIDI commands (notes, controllers etc). I'm not using VEPRO myself, so I can't give you a first hand experience but I know that loads of people who use Art Conductor do use a VEPRO based system.


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## Dewdman42 (May 22, 2020)

Well the problem here the op is having is most likely related to the midi port attribute which they may be attempting to use with AU3 In order to use more then 16 
midi channels. 

Articulation sets don’t know anything about port. In theory the track port attribute should be passed through to vepro regardless of the articulation set, but this is an area I haven’t tested extensively yet and might be a problem with Logic Pro and/or AU3 which is technically still in Beta.


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## Ashermusic (May 23, 2020)

Amoli said:


> Sure thanks! I'm using a MacPro 5,1 6 core with 96 GB of RAM with the latest versions of Logic X and VePro 7.
> I have a fairly large template using a single computer with VePro and Logic.When I open an empty Logic file without VePro and create a Kontakt instance and I use articulation sets everything works fine with all my libraries whether is Cinesamples, Berlin or Spitfire (using UACC KS).
> When I reopen my template with VePro the articulation sets don't work anymore.Is there anything I'm missing?Something particular about VePro-Kontakt and articulation sets?



Open the Smart Controls. Is MIDI Remote in red?


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## A.G (May 23, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> Mind that all those maps only send MIDI commands (notes, controllers etc).





Dewdman42 said:


> Well the problem here the op is having is most likely related to the midi port attribute which they may be attempting to use with AU3 In order to use more then 16 midi channels.
> Articulation sets don’t know anything about port.



You are posting nonsenses guys cause you are not familiar with the AU3 protocol.
Articulation Sets KNOW the Port#. This "Track based" tech was developed by Apple & VSL.

For example, AG released AU3 Orchestral templates for VEP Multi Instance v2 last year.
The Articulations are switched via Logic Articulation sets (not via AG Scripter) and all works as expected.
There are thousands of AG VEPM users who can confirm that.


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## Dewdman42 (May 23, 2020)

Articulation sets have no way to configure port. Port is set as a track attribute. I believe port is PASSED THROUGH the articulation set as is but I haven’t done an extensive test to see if the articulation set output section might in some cases overwrite the port attribute.

nobody is talking nonsense Ivan. Calm down.


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## A.G (May 23, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> I haven’t done an extensive test to see if the articulation set output section might in some cases overwrite the port attribute.


You are advised to do an extensive test before you post any info here.


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## Dewdman42 (May 23, 2020)

And you are advised to be more polite


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## babylonwaves (May 23, 2020)

A.G said:


> You are posting nonsenses guys cause you are not familiar with the AU3 protocol.


you know, you're right, I'm not familiar with AU3. and i don't have to in this case. i'm making templates. so, in the end, i will leave this to the ones who designed the communication: apple and to a degree VSL. the maps only send midi, what else would they send? they use the features available in the articulation editor in logic.

you know, ivan, i'm debating with myself if I really need to discuss this with you or if i simply accept that you are, what other people already called you: an idiot.

in which way does you post help anybody, amusement aside?


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## A.G (May 23, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> you know, you're right, I'm not familiar with AU3.


If you are not familiar with AU3, then stay away and do not post incorrect info here Mr.Preset!
Please improve your English by the way, there are tons of errors in your posts.

I confirm that my posts are always correct and helpful, cause they are based on deep technical researches and tests.


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## Dewdman42 (May 23, 2020)

Amoli said:


> Sure thanks! I'm using a MacPro 5,1 6 core with 96 GB of RAM with the latest versions of Logic X and VePro 7.
> I have a fairly large template using a single computer with VePro and Logic.When I open an empty Logic file without VePro and create a Kontakt instance and I use articulation sets everything works fine with all my libraries whether is Cinesamples, Berlin or Spitfire (using UACC KS).
> When I reopen my template with VePro the articulation sets don't work anymore.Is there anything I'm missing?Something particular about VePro-Kontakt and articulation sets?



Can you give us more specific information about what exactly you have setup and what exactly is happening. We can probably get you sorted out.


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## Amoli (May 24, 2020)

Thanks everyone! I didn't mean to start a big discussion and to people to start fighting.As for Art Conductor I have no complain in general.I use all the time in other types of situations with different templates and everything works fine.In this particular case it's a big template using Logic X 10.5 (now) with VEPro 7.I built the template starting with the old VSL Logic Template (not AU3!!).Like I said before the Articulation Sets work well with any library when using the midi channels connected to the first instance of Kontakt in every VePro instance (that means for example channel 1_1_1 or 2_1_6 or 5_1 12 as long as the middle number is 1).The rest of the channels don't work.The Midi Remote button in the keyswitches panel doesn't seem to make a difference either way.It is obviously a problem with VePro and Logic together or something I should do in my Logic environment...


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## Dewdman42 (May 24, 2020)

They must be with the old multi port environment macros. There are some bugs in the original templates provided by vsl, FYI. Which version of Logic Pro are you using?

it’s been a while since I used those but I recall them working ok with articulation sets but what exact thing is not working right for you? You say “it doesn't work”. Please tell us exactly which aspect does not seem to be working


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## Amoli (May 24, 2020)

It is probably something to do with those templates made by vsl...I'm was using Logic 10.4.8 and now 10.5.When I say it doesn't work means exactly that, that articulations don't switch...when they work they work and when they don't they don't.


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## Dewdman42 (May 24, 2020)

Are you meaning they don’t switch when you try to play the input switches from your keyboard or do you mes that recorded tracks with articulation ids on the notes are not causing keyswitches to happen ?

have you tried to use any midi monitor to see what is happening?


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## Dewdman42 (May 24, 2020)

Could be. First I highly recommend you move away from those templates. The old ones from VSL were fundamentally broken due to bugs in LogicPro environment layer, which as far as I know have never been fixed. Also those old templates relied on an environment macro (broken), which basically inserts a CC99 event in front of every other event coming from your tracks... That CC99 event goes into VePro.AU plugin where it is converted back to a real port assignment. You can read about the "bug" as well as an improved version of that enivornoment macro that I made a few years ago..which worked around the LogicPro bug... read more here:









VEP6 Macro-based Multiport/SinglePort Templates


UPDATE: NEW THREAD: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=143416 The new AU3 plugin (currently in beta) works really well and I highly reccomend using that instead of this in the near future. You will need to be running High Sierra or newer and VePro 7 in order to use that. VSL made some new AU3 starter templa...




www.logicprohelp.com





However, I have a feeling that even my improved multiport templates may still have the problems you are having if my suspicion is correct, but I would need to load that old stuff up to try it out. I would be curious if you actually want to run an experiment using my improved version...to see if that makes any difference, but I think it might not make any difference. The reason is because what It think the problem probably is, is that when you are trying to use input keyswitches, the LogicPro engine is bypassing the environment stuff in some way such that CC99 is not getting inserted properly in front of certain keyswitches... I would have to spend a lot of time debugging that to figure it out, and honestly I think that's yesterday's news..

I recommend even more that you move to AU3 instead of the old VSL templates. With AU3 you don't have this CC99 business happening at all. VSL made AU3 templates, but alas, they are also broken due to logicPro bugs, and I have improved versions of those also here:









VEP7 AU3 Template and Instructions


In VSL's VEP7, an AU3 plugin has been introduced which provides for up to 127 midi channels over multiple ports per VEP instance. VEPAU3-1270-tracks.zip VEPAU3-1536-midi.zip Requirements OSX High Sierra or above LogicPro 10.4.5 or above Template Notes Due to bugs in LogicPro as of 10.6, the track...




www.logicprohelp.com





I'm pretty darn confident that these AU3 templates will work fine with Art Conductor, though I can't test that because I don't own Art Conductor.


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## A.G (May 24, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> I'm pretty darn confident that these AU3 templates will work fine with Art Conductor, though I can't test that because I don't own Art Conductor.


Art Conductor is nothing special and you do not need to own it to be able to test.
Art Conductor is a collection of regular Logic Articulations Sets which can be made by any Logic user (including children).


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## Dewdman42 (May 24, 2020)

Then it should work!


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## A.G (May 24, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Then it should work!


Yes, it should work. It is obvious that the problem is in the OP Orchestral template.

Amoli, please provide a detail info about your template:
- Is it a former VSL template which uses Environment transformers CC99 to switch the VEP ports?
- Is it a VSL AU3 template?
- Other?

BTW. Screenshots are welcome.


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## Ashermusic (May 25, 2020)

I just bought Art Conductor 6.1.2 for Logic Pro and I can verify that with AU 2 or VST in VE Pro 7, it works as expected in Logic Pro X 10.5


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## Amoli (May 25, 2020)

I was using the old VSL templates for Logic and it wasn't working.I created a template using the new Beta templates for Logic provided by VSL (AU3) and it seems to work fine. Ashermusic make sure you try the articulations sets with Port 2.


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## Dewdman42 (May 25, 2020)

You should use my AU3 template the ones from Vsl have a bug that might creep up. You’ve been warned


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## Ashermusic (May 25, 2020)

Amoli said:


> I was using the old VSL templates for Logic and it wasn't working.I created a template using the new Beta templates for Logic provided by VSL (AU3) and it seems to work fine. Ashermusic make sure you try the articulations sets with Port 2.


I am not using AU3 until Apple tells me it fully implemented.


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## Amoli (May 25, 2020)

ouuuukey...Thanks!
Any idea how to fix those old VSL templates so my articulations work.I'm totally illiterate with respect to the Logic Environment.


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## Amoli (May 25, 2020)

I don't see much difference between the AU2 or AU3 templates if the fundamental problem of having only 32 audio channels per VEpro instance hasn't changed...Am I missing something?


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## A.G (May 25, 2020)

Amoli said:


> I don't see much difference between the AU2 or AU3 templates if the fundamental problem of having only 32 audio channels per VEpro instance hasn't changed...Am I missing something?


Have a look at AG VEP Multi Instance. It is another approach which allows you to use up to 1024 MIDI Channels via AU2 or up to 8192 Channels per VEP Instance via AU3.
It comes with professional AU3 Logic & VST3 Cubase Orchestral templates, plus VEP Instance and Logic Art Sets templates.
VEPM allows you to switch all Kontakt Ports ABCD via a single track in your DAW.
The CC Smart Cloning is another extra which is not possible via Logic Art Sets yet.


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## Ashermusic (May 25, 2020)

Amoli said:


> ouuuukey...Thanks!
> Any idea how to fix those old VSL templates so my articulations work.I'm totally illiterate with respect to the Logic Environment.



Nope, they were garbage, IMHO. You don’t need to go into the Environment.


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## Amoli (May 25, 2020)

I don't know if they were completely garbage...I 've been using them for 5 years with absolutely no problems.My problems started when I decided to use articulation sets instead of single articulations for every track.


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## Dewdman42 (May 25, 2020)

If you are trying to choose between AU3 or the old multi port macro, definitely choose AU3, as long as you aren’t needing to use the transport inside your plugins it will work fine. The old multi port macros are problematic.

you don’t need either one if you constrain yourself to 16 instruments or less per vepro instance then use the AU2 version.

articulation sets work fine with AU2 and AU3

i reccomend strongly against using the templates from vsl

If you want to share the logicpro project you are having trouble with we can try to help you diagnose what is going on.


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## Ashermusic (May 25, 2020)

Amoli said:


> I don't know if they were completely garbage...I 've been using them for 5 years with absolutely no problems.My problems started when I decided to use articulation sets instead of single articulations for every track.



if memory serves the used the old MIDI instruments? Never want to look at those again.


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## Dewdman42 (May 25, 2020)

its worse then that, they use an environment macro with some transforms on each track too.


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## Ashermusic (May 25, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> its worse then that, they use an environment macro with some transforms on each track too.



When you die, if you have been a bad person, you work with that through eternity.


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## Dewdman42 (May 25, 2020)

hehe. maybe so. hehe. I don't find it that bad, there are a few advantages to using environment midi objects actually. Some disadvantages..I see it as a personal preference, and I'm not even sure what mine is. But the CC99 multiport macros...while they were fine enough a few years ago..they were not without drawbacks..including unnecessary complexity...I feel AU3 is a better alternative to those.. (if you are needing or wanting more than 16 instruments per VePro Instance, otherwise, stick with AU2).


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## Dewdman42 (May 25, 2020)

I just ran a quick test with the old multiport macro template. They are not fully compatible with Articulation Sets under LPX 10.5. The keyswitches generated somehow are bypassing the environment and not being transformed (with CC99 inserted), which is necessary for those old templates to work on multi ports.

This is very interesting, because I can't see any reason why the keyswitches would not route through the environment..it doesn't make sense to me right now, but anyway, that appears to be the case.

so as noted before, if you want to use Articulation Sets, either use no more than 16 instruments per VePro instance with the AU2 plugin, or use AU3.


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## Amoli (May 25, 2020)

Exactly what the problem is.Finally we get to an agreement.Articulation sets don't work with AU2 but are working fine with AU3 templates.
Now that we figured that out , the big issue with VePro and Logic is not whether to have 16 or 1027 midi channels per instance but the limitations of audio outputs.


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## Dewdman42 (May 25, 2020)

Amoli said:


> Articulation sets don't work with AU2 but are working fine with AU3 templates.



Well that's not quite accurate. Articulation Sets are working fine with AU2. AU2 is limited to 16 midi channels. Articulation Sets are also working with AU3 plugins, which can use much more than 16 midi channels.

Articulation Sets are NOT compatible with VSL's old multiport environment templates because apparently ArticulationSets bypass the environment when it is being used as the track destination.


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## Dewdman42 (May 25, 2020)

There is also one more possibility for you to avoid AU3, but I have no experience with it. You can use the VSL Event Input plugin and that can enable more than one midi port using AU2.


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Well that's not quite accurate. Articulation Sets are working fine with AU2. AU2 is limited to 16 midi channels. Articulation Sets are also working with AU3 plugins, which can use much more than 16 midi channels.
> 
> Articulation Sets are NOT compatible with VSL's old multiport environment templates because apparently ArticulationSets bypass the environment when it is being used as the track destination.



Not quite accurate? How about totally inaccurate.  AU 2 works fine, has a 16 part limitation.

But to use AU 3 in Logic, you have to use the old MIDI Instruments because when you create a multi-tombral instrument it only gives you up to 16 parts, correct?


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## Dewdman42 (May 26, 2020)

That’s not correct either. AU3 does not require any enviornment stuff. 

in order to get more then 16 midi channels with AU2, that is when the environment objects are needed.

And specifically, AU2 has no understanding of midi port, so in order to use more then 16 midi channels the environment has to use midi transforms to insert CC99 events, etc. That is why the old Vsl templates are complicated and as it turns out they don’t seem to work right with articulation sets.


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> That’s not correct either. AU3 does not require any enviornment stuff.



Then how do you do it without the VSL template?


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## Dewdman42 (May 26, 2020)

AU3 plug-ins support a midi port attribute in the track inspector. Simple as that. Create a track, set the port in the inspector. Create another track, etc


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## Dewdman42 (May 26, 2020)

In other words you don’t actually need ANY template to use AU3 and build up your project track by track without ever touching the environment. I wrote specific instructions for how to do that on the logicpro forum.

AU3 templates are just a convenience, it takes only a few minutes to build up hundreds of tracks without touching the environment.


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## babylonwaves (May 26, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> And specifically, AU2 has no understanding of midi port, so in order to use more then 16 midi channels the environment has to use midi transforms to insert CC99 events, etc. That is why the old Vsl templates are complicated and as it turns out they don’t seem to work right with articulation sets.


which is still odd. because by the time the MIDI data leaves the channel object, it's just MIDI. just two notes for instance. one to trigger a sound, the other one to choose the articulation.

say, you insert scripter as a MIDI monitor and you see the the two notes in there, what do you see in a midi monitor environment object placed before the final output object?


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## Dewdman42 (May 26, 2020)

Yesterday I just stuck a monitor in the environment to check out the old VSL templates to see what happens.

Normally those are setup so that the track routes through the environment with a transform in between the track the mixer channel...


```
track-->midi inst object-->transformer-->mixerchannel
```

The mixer channel is where the actual plugin is hosted.

Fine so far..so when you play back your tracks...the midi goes through the environment before hitting the instrument plugin in the mixer channel.

However, it looks to me that when articulation set is adding keyswitches, somehow they bypass the environment entirely and go directly to the mixer channel. And I agree it doesn't make any sense and its something to keep an eye on, because generally we should expect that to go through the environment along with the rest of the track data..but somehow, its not. But its not even clear to me how LogicPro would even know which mixer channel to route it to when its going through the environment like that...in order to bypass it... Which tells me this is some internal stuff and honestly I consider it a bug...


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## Dewdman42 (May 26, 2020)

I'm doing some more testing on this, stay tuned...the problem might be only specifically related to the transformer object in the environment.


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## Dewdman42 (May 26, 2020)

So yea I think the problem is a general bug in Environment transformer, not surprising. I setup a simple test as follows....

Simple Articulation Set:







Simple Environment with a transformer object that attempts to insert CC99 in front of every event:













Without diving too much deeper, you can see straight away that we should expect to see CC99 inserted in between every midi event flowing from the track, including both track events as well as keyswitches generated by the articulation set. But we don't. So straight away I say there is a bug in transformer.

There is another problem too in that some of the CC99 events being inserted don't have the value set to 5, as specified in the transformer, which is a separate bug and the primary reason why the old VSL multi-port macro templates were flawed. I had worked around that with a more elaborate macro in the environment that handled note on and note off events better and made sure CC99 was always inserted properly..but even that work around does not seem to address this situation with articulationSet's where CC99 is not even always inserted at all by transformer when the event originates from articulation set rather then from the track. I'm not too motivated to solve this any further because AU3 is working fine for me without any elaborate transforms, but I see this as something to keep an eye on...and basically makes the old multiport macros incompatible (both VSL's and mine) with ArticulationSets for multiport usage.


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## A.G (May 26, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> But to use AU 3 in Logic, you have to use the old MIDI Instruments because when you create a multi-tombral instrument it only gives you up to 16 parts, correct?



Jay, AU3 is the perfect way to use the Logic Articulation Sets straight away and to ignore the 16 MIDI Channels limitation.

There are two working AU3 setups at the moment:

1. You can build Standard Multi timbral Instruments and set them to VEP Ports 1-8 or 1-48 as it is shown in the VEP Beta demo template.

2. You can also use old school Environment Multi Instrument objects cabled to Channel Strips which are set to VEP Ports 1-8 or 1-48 for example. I prefer this old school AU3 setup cause the Solo, Mute, Vol & Pan and not locked.

By the way AG VEPM comes with such AU3 and VST3 professional Orchestral templates.
We added both AU3 template types in the upcoming X-DAW Orchestral templates library.

It is a shame that you have not updated to AU3 yet. It works very well - trust me.


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## Dewdman42 (May 26, 2020)

A.G said:


> Jay, AU3 is the perfect way to use the Logic Articulation Sets straight away and to ignore the 16 MIDI Channels limitation.



I think so too




> 1. You can build Standard Multi timbral Instruments and set them to VEP Ports 1-8 or 1-48



with one caveat. The way most people build up multi instrument tracks in LobicPro is by creating an instrument track, setting the midi channel then using "*create track with next midi channe*l" to create the next track on midi channel 2, then again on midi channel 3, etc. 

Unfortunately in LogicPro, currently when you are on midi channel 16 and you attempt to use "*create track with next midi channel*", logic pro does the wrong thing for AU3 and creates a new inst2 channel, (rather then going to port2, channel1). 

That is a usability bug that I was hoping they would fix in 10.5, but they did not. So you have to do a little tap dance to get past that, its not hard... 

After you create the track for midi channel 16, change it to Port 2, channel 1. Then go back to the channel 15 track and hit the "*new track with next midi channel*" again to create the channel 16 track again. Then you can use the "new track with next midi channel" again 16 more times starting on port 2, channel1.

Its not hard, but it is a little tap dance you need to do when attempting to create up to 127 tracks per VePro instance without touching the environment.



> as it is shown in the VEP Beta demo template.



yes. VSL used that approach, but be advised, the VSL templates were created with an older version of LogicPro prior to 10.4.5, and because of that there is a bug in LogicPro when you try to use older project files created before 10.4.5 with LogicPro 10.4.5+. It has to do with the fact they changed 10.4.5 to allow 1000 instrument channels a new internal allocation system for assigning instrument objects to tracks as you go, etc.. Its complicated to explain, but if you use older projects created before 10.4.5, you may run into weird problems where the metronome stops working and stuff like that. For that reason, VSL's posted templates should be avoided IMHO. But the good news is that its really easy to recreate them from scratch using the procedure I just explained, you can basically create the same structure as the VSL template in 5 minutes time...and since you would be doing it with a new version of LogicPro, the project-file-bug I am talking about will not be present.



> 2. You can also use old school Environment Multi Instrument objects cabled to Channel Strips which are set to VEP Ports 1-8 or 1-48 for example. I prefer this old school AU3 setup cause the Solo, Mute, Vol & Pan and not locked.



Yep. There are pros and cons to using midi instrument objects, but as noted, the solo, mute and vol/pan work... There is another advantage too, if you use Multi-instrument objects you can have 768 tracks per VePro instance. If you use VSL's beta template approach...the simple way...you are limited to 127 tracks per VePro instance (_though you can also stretch that out a bit too if you are using channels for your articulation handling, then you can have 127 source tracks feeding up to 768 total midi channels, without ever using anything special in the environment; but that's a more complicated topic_.)


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## Dewdman42 (May 26, 2020)

A.G said:


> It is a shame that you have not updated to AU3 yet. It works very well - trust me.



AU3 works very well, i agree... AS LONG AS you don't need to use any transport oriented plugins. If you are using a plugin that has arp or anything at all that is tempo based, then you should not use AU3 with VePro yet, as of now, the transport does not start and follow tempo inside VePro properly when using AU3. This is not needed for most orch work, but just to be advised...that is one thing that is broken with either AU3 or Vepro.AU3 specifically, we don't really know whether its logic or Vepro that is broken, but it is broken right now for sure.

Also the above thing i said about the tap dance to create instrument tracks.. Its not a hard tap dance, but if you don't know about it and know to do it...could easily get confused while creating tracks.

Also, if you accidentally try to create a 128th track, LogicPro will go into a complete break down, and the only way out is to go into the environment knowing exactly what you're doing to remove the 128th track.

So.. its not perfectly usable in a generally user friendly way yet. I can easily see why Jay would not be recommending it for his clients just yet. But its also true that if you know a little bit what your'e doing, it works very very well, handles many tracks into VePro...and other then the Transport issue mentioned above, seems to work perfectly with articulation Sets, scripter and everything else you might need to do.

Using environment multi-instruments instead of directly creating multi-instrument tracks, removes the 127 track limitation. This is quite a bit more safe to do without accidentally going past the limit because basically you only use 48 out of the 127 limit. Each one of those 48 goes through the multi-instrument to assign the midi channel, and thus you get 768 midi channels. But...it does mean you have to use the multi-instrument approach, which is not for everyone.

I have free clean templates, both with and without the multi-instruments, here:

https://gitlab.com/dewdman42/Logic-VEP-MultiPort-templates
More instructions about how to manually add tracks (up to 127 instead of 16 channel limit), here:









VEP7 AU3 Template and Instructions


In VSL's VEP7, an AU3 plugin has been introduced which provides for up to 127 midi channels over multiple ports per VEP instance. VEPAU3-1270-tracks.zip VEPAU3-1536-midi.zip Requirements OSX High Sierra or above LogicPro 10.4.5 or above Template Notes Due to bugs in LogicPro as of 10.6, the track...




www.logicprohelp.com


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## A.G (May 26, 2020)

Hey Dewdman42, do not try to teach the TEACHER .

I had a look at your LPH AU3 template building instructions and I must say that they are very complicated and having some errors in the Environment ordering.

There are much more intelligent ways to build AU3 templates (I do not have time to outline such tutors about that now). I prefer to release Professional AU3 templates for the AG customers.

In short, the AU3 is fully functional with Logic Articulation Sets and it knows the VE Port number assignment without any preparations (it is a simple AU3 Port # transformation powered by the track Inspector).


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2020)

Well I have learned some things here but with the possible exception of Cinematic Studio Strings with all its different legatos, I can't think of an case where I want moire than 16 MIDI channels, because I still think like a score page


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## Dewdman42 (May 26, 2020)

I’m only clarifying things for everyone Ivan I could care less if you in particular are able to understand. The pros and cons of AU3 do need to be acknowledged. I provided some templates as a courtesy and convenience, as well as proof of concept.

If there is something specifically wrong or that could be done better with the templates I shared, then please enlighten us all. As usual I think you are just blowing a lot of hot air.

There are two different templates by the way. One uses multi instruments in order to achieve 768 midi channels despite logicpro’s current limitation of 127. The other one does not use multi instruments. What is it specifically you think could be different or better? I am always willing to learn if there is something specific you can point out?


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## Dewdman42 (May 26, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Well I have learned some things here but with the possible exception of Cinematic Studio Strings with all its different legatos, I can't think of an case where I want moire than 16 MIDI channels, because I still think like a score page



As do I and I’m not sure why you always use that description on this topic because it’s not mutually exclusive. The point of AU3 is not whether you will have one track per inst like a score page. The question is only whether you will have 16 or less of those in each vepro instance or perhaps able to put 100 or more into one vepro instance while still retaining in logicpro one track per instrument, like a score page.


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> As do I and I’m not sure why you always use that description on this topic because it’s not mutually exclusive. The point of AU3 is not whether you will have one track per inst like a score page. The question is only whether you will have 16 or less of those in each vepro instance or perhaps able to put 100 or more into one vepro instance while still retaining in logicpro one track per instrument, like a score page.



Understood. I guess instead of having separate instances I could for instance combine the strings, but then they come into Logic on the same channel strip, unless I start using it multi-output with auxes or that thing VE Pro has for for that, I forget the name. And unless something has drastically changed, once you start doing that, performance degrades considerably, not to mention the routing is now much less straight ahead.


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## Dewdman42 (May 26, 2020)

yes you're right if you also want all the audio coming back to be one audio channel per staff on the score page, then you would want to limit yourself to 25 instruments per VePro instance, though if some of those are multi-channel articulation instruments, then it could theoretically be more than 25 midi channels. Since current Logic pro can handle 25 stereo audio returns from VePro. I haven't experienced performance problems at all with that. But... I don't use a VePro slave, which might have more of a network impact with many audio channels streaming back over the the network.


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## Ashermusic (May 26, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> yes you're right if you also want all the audio coming back to be one audio channel per staff on the score page, then you would want to limit yourself to 25 instruments per VePro instance, though if some of those are multi-channel articulation instruments, then it could theoretically be more than 25 midi channels. Since current Logic pro can handle 25 stereo audio returns from VePro. I haven't experienced performance problems at all with that. But... I don't use a VePro slave, which might have more of a network impact with many audio channels streaming back over the the network.



I guess for me it’s a case of it isn’t broken so I don’t need to fix it. One VE Pro instance coming into one VE Pro plugin instance in Logic is just so simple and straightforward.

Occam’s Razor. But I never say never.


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## Wunderhorn (May 26, 2020)

So far I have also been more on the conservative side regarding AU3 and have not used it.

Reading this here I got curious and just did a test:
Based on @Dewdman42's advice I assigned port1 ch1 to one Kontakt instance within a VE-Pro AU3 instance and another track to port2 ch1. For each I loaded a Kontakt instrument with keyswitches. Then I loaded the articulation set into the respective track (in this case Art Conductor) and it all worked flawlessly.
I was able to switch articulations regardless whether the instrument was situated in port1 or port2.

Note: I did not need to use any pre-made template whatsoever. It worked in a very straight-forward manner.

Next I'll try to incorporate such an instance into my template and see if it still works (it should work because aside from summing stacks and 2-3 auxes per VE-Pro instance I have nothing fancy going on at all.)
On most instances I won't need to exceed the limit of 16, just on a few I always thought it would be nice to be able to load a few more. It looks like I can do that now...


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## babylonwaves (May 26, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Without diving too much deeper, you can see straight away that we should expect to see CC99 inserted in between every midi event flowing from the track, including both track events as well as keyswitches generated by the articulation set. But we don't. So straight away I say there is a bug in transformer.


thanks @Dewdman42 - that would explains a lot.


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## Horvath (May 27, 2020)

Hello everybody,
I have a simple question, slightly off topic though. Is there any way, besides VEP Pro, to get around the limitation of recording more than 16 MIDI Channels with Logic at the same time? Let me explain: I use Divisimate, which allows splitting one keyboard performance on up to 32 MIDI Channels in DAWs that allow it. What Logic can't, limiting the templates with Divisimate to 16 MIDI Channels only... I understand I could use VEP Pro, but there is a price and a learning curve that I can't really afford right now. All suggestions are welcome. Thank you in advance.


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## Dewdman42 (May 27, 2020)

I haven’t ever tried it but no I don’t think you can record more then 16 channels at once. Vepro will not help either. I think there might be some older threads in this topic search the forum for divisimate


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## A.G (May 27, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> So yea I think the problem is a general bug in Environment transformer, not surprising. I setup a simple test as follows....
> 
> Without diving too much deeper, you can see straight away that we should expect to see CC99 inserted in between every midi event flowing from the track, including both track events as well as keyswitches generated by the articulation set.



Dear Dewdman42, you continue to post NONSENSES. There is no bug in the Environment Transformer, there is a bug in your mind.

This time I will ask you to post officially: I'M SORRY APPLE, THERE IS NO BUG IN YOUR TRANSFORMER, if you want to be a good VI supporter here. 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Here is a true information about the Environment processing and the Articulation Sets routing.

The Logic track Inspector, Channel Strip and the Environment are powered by internal/invisible MIDI processing which contains of:
- MIDI Macros/Schemes.
- Articulation Sets MIDI FX.
- Etc.
All internal schemes use custom routings, so some are PRE, other are POST etc.

Logic Articulation Sets cannot be processed by the Environment objects, because the Art Sets are POST (regarding the Enviro processing). This is the reason that CC99 is not added to the Articulation Set output KS.

There is an extra method which can solve that (E.g the Logic users who use the old AU2 with CC99 will be able to update their templates to make them working with Logic Articulation Sets system).
I may post a tutor or include instructions/tools in the AG upcoming products.

_BTW. Dewdman42, you are welcome to contact me and ask for any technical support before you post another nonsense. You are an AG user, so I'll do my best to assist you. By the way I highly appreciate your efforts to help the people, but all must be correct without errors..._


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## Dewdman42 (May 27, 2020)

You are incorrect. Yes there bugs in transformer for quite some time. Secondly the art set is sending keyswitches through the environment you can see that clearly in the monitor (see earlier post). But transformer is not processing them.

third, articulation sets are attached to track properties, and the track is assigned to something, in this case the environment transformer, where there is a bug.

Mira not clear to me why you would want to argue this point and lead people further astray.


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## A.G (May 27, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Secondly the art set is sending keyswitches through the environment you can see that clearly in the monitor (see earlier post). But transformer is not processing them.


I do not want to argue with a person who is trying to say that the black is white and vice versa.

There is no bug in the Transformer, just the Art Sets processing is POST (cabled) after the Environment processing. Here is an example:

Event Note => Environment Transformer => Articulation Sets
(As I mentioned before these are internal routings which can not be changed).

How the Articulation Set Key Switches (or what else output mapping) will add CC99 in case that the Environment Transformer is patched before the Articulation Sets MIDI FX?


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## Dewdman42 (May 27, 2020)

Also there is another bug you are ignoring now but I also mentioned earlier which is that transformer is not correctly adding cc99 for note off. As to all your other rude commentary and really false commentary I have no comment


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## A.G (May 27, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Also there is another bug you are ignoring now but I also mentioned earlier which is that transformer is not correctly adding cc99 for note off.


I asked you politely (in my previous BTW) not to post incorrect info here.
It is obvious that there is a need of a 2nd Transformer to process Data 2!

Steve, I highly recommend to contact and visit your psychologist.
Please let him know about your Logic Environment Transformer mirages.

Finally I will be highly appreciated if you publish here:
"I'm so sorry Apple, the Logic Environment Transformer has no bugs"


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## Dewdman42 (May 27, 2020)

Look Ivan this is quickly becoming another one of your adolescent discussions going round in circles where you try to claim everyone else is stupid and you are a genius so everyone should buy your software, usually with many false accusations. It’s very baffling to me. Do you honestly think you will sell more software that way?

You are very much muddying the waters with incorrect information which is of no help to anyone.

i spent a lot of time figuring out a work around for VSL’s broken multiport templates, which are broken precisely because of the transformer bug you are unwilling to acknowledge. Yes of course it can he worked around with transformers which is exactly what I did and shared for free a long time ago as alternative multiport templates, and they work generally fine notwithstanding the transformer bug. They are still available for anyone that doesn’t want to use AU3, but not advised.

however the multiport CC99 trick will not work with articulation sets because of a different bug which you are also not acknowledging. The environment templates should not be used with articulation sets if they invoke a transformer. I’m sure you are going to call me stupid again because you seem to like doing that, but that is fact. I have documented it here and anyone can replicate the scenario I posted earlier to verify.

The good news is that AU3 works well. The OP should strongly consider using that instead of the old environment templates and they should avoid using any LogicPro templates from the VSL website as of today because they have problems which I have already explained. Anyone is welcome to take my free advise and use it or ignore it But I stand by everything I have said, and hope that it helps someone.


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## Hans-Peter (May 27, 2020)

Ivan, as much as we all appreciate your input (and I DO! really mean that!), please try to tone down your sarcasm. You release great products and have impressive expertise in Logic, but I sense a certain insensitivity with regards to expressions that have been accepted across cultures. I’m also hot-tempered (+ traveling across places and being frustrated; and thus I believe to follow your feelings very well), but let’s just remind ourselves that the internet is a transcultural place. What may seem to you as a slightly provocative response, is being considered as an insult to people from other places. I know the latter is not your intention as you are a) too well-meaning/altruistic (otherwise you wouldn’t even care to help) and b) too smart to get yourself into arguments like this and waste the time of both of you on it (again, I do really mean this).

As for me, I really appreciate the input of both of you and find your discourses quite educative for my own purposes. And that’s what you guys are actually having - a discourse based on your research. Let’s keep the emotions out of this, you can do so much better.

Oh, btw, I’m (also) a Psychologist by education. In case you haven’t noticed .

PEACE!


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## A.G (May 27, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> The good news is that AU3 works well.


Say "Thanks" to Ivan who let you know that AU3 KNOWS the Articulations Sets Port #.
If you read your posts in this tread carefully, you will find that you posted that the Art Sets does not know the AU3 Port #.

Say "Thanks" to Ivan who let you know that there is no bug in the Logic Environment Transformer.

Say "I'm sorry" to Apple. They are reading this VI posts and fix all we need.


BTW. I'm so sorry for my "hard" inputs here guys (thanks for your notes Hans-Peter)!
Most of you know my kind support. In many cases I support non AG users a lot, via Emails, PMs here etc.
REMEMBER! I will not give any chance, to anybody on this planet to provide incorrect information!
Any incorrect technical info pushes the users to a wrong direction and harms the developers!


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## Dewdman42 (May 27, 2020)

A.G said:


> Say "Thanks" to Ivan who let you know that AU3 KNOWS the Articulations Sets Port #.
> If you read your posts in this tread carefully, you will find that you posted that the Art Sets does not know the AU3 Port #.



Yes that is correct, Articulation Set's know nothing about port#, they are unable to specify or see anything related to port#. 



> Say "Thanks" to Ivan who let you know that there is no bug in the Logic Environment Transformer.



not correct



> Say "I'm sorry" to Apple. They are reading this VI posts and fix all we need.



I say to Apple "you're welcome, please fix the bugs"


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## Ashermusic (May 27, 2020)

I would hope a moderator would step in here.

I don’t know who is correct, and frankly, I don’t care because my way works.

But Ivan, you used to do this with Peter, and Marc occasionally, and now Dewdman, essentially anyone who can cost you a buck. It doesn’t play out well. Why not just let your satisfied customers trust you, as they do, and ignore the rest. Apple doesn’t need you to carry their water.

And Dewdman perhaps resist having to have the last word. That also doesn’t wear well.

Of course you are both free to ignore my advice, which you probably both will


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## Dewdman42 (May 27, 2020)




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## Amoli (May 27, 2020)

Since I started this discussion I have to thank everybody...it's been very informative.I actually started building a new template from scratch using AU3 and following Dewdman22 instructions.Articulations Sets are working in Port2!! Keep your fingers crossed!


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## Amoli (May 28, 2020)

It all works fine (articulation sets!) but it is not a practical solution since all MUTE and SOLO buttons work on tandem for ALL the tracks.
Is there a way to build a template with AU3 that works like the old model ,with Environment Multi Instrument objects cabled to Channel Strips? 
I know Dewdman42 has a template but it only has 2 Vepro instances and that is not enough because of the limited audio outputs...Thanks


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## Ashermusic (May 28, 2020)

Amoli said:


> It all works fine (articulation sets!) but it is not a practical solution since all MUTE and SOLO buttons work on tandem for ALL the tracks.
> Is there a way to build a template with AU3 that works like the old model ,with Environment Multi Instrument objects cabled to Channel Strips? Thanks



Make sure that you have the Power buttons in the Track Header to turn the individual tracks flowing through the Channel Strip on or off.


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## Amoli (May 28, 2020)

??


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## Ashermusic (May 28, 2020)

Amoli said:


> ??


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## Amoli (May 28, 2020)

Sorry Ashermusic,that doesn't make any difference,I'm talking about something else...


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## Ashermusic (May 28, 2020)

Amoli said:


> Sorry Ashermusic,that doesn't make any difference,I'm talking about something else...




Oops, I did not read what I thought I read  That's what happens to me when I am doing three things at a time, sorry.

I saw this:"it is not a practical solution since all MUTE and SOLO buttons work on tandem for ALL the tracks" and thought you were looking to be able to effectively solo/mute tracks flowing through the same Channel Strip, which this allows you to do.


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## A.G (May 28, 2020)

Amoli said:


> It all works fine (articulation sets!) but it is not a practical solution since all MUTE and SOLO buttons work on tandem for ALL the tracks.
> Is there a way to build a template with AU3 that works like the old model ,with Environment Multi Instrument objects cabled to Channel Strips?


Yes there is a way to use Environment Multis and build such AU3 Template.
By the way AG VEP Multi Instance v2 comes with a complete AU3 Orchestral template which is based on that method.

You can try to build one by yourself by following my instructional animated image below.
Click the animated image to watch it in full screen:







BTW. The new AG AU3 Orchestral templates will be included in the upcoming X-DAW Art Pro 7 (for Cubase<=>Logic). VEP VST3 Orchestral templates will be included too for the Cubase users.


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## Dewdman42 (May 28, 2020)

Take the template I made called 1536 something er other and use that as an example. If you want independent mute/solo on the track header then you need to use midi or multi instruments in the environment. That example only uses two vepro instances with 48 ports and 768 channels each but if you want to less ports and more vepro instances it’s not hard.

when I get back to my computer I will write step by step instructions


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## Amoli (May 28, 2020)

Thanks everyone!!!


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## Dewdman42 (May 28, 2020)

Alright I promised some step by step instructions, but in thinking this through I realized its not simple to explain. also, the truth is there are some pros and cons no matter what you do, so I guess you need to know what you want and which approach you prefer to use. My recommendation is that unless you understand some stuff about the environment you are probably better off avoiding that approach. I will say a few comments at the end about that.

Read this post before going on:\








Multitimbral struggles


I've been trying to get a template setup for LPX 10.3.2 that uses multitimbral instances of Kontakt, since some testing I did showed there were memory use and loading time benefits to doing so. But I've been stopped in my tracks twice now, and I am wondering if there is something I am missing, or...




www.logicprohelp.com





So one important thing to mention is that the thing you are complaining about mute/solo buttons all being linked is the way LogicPro is designed to work by default for any multi-timbral instruments, both AU2 and AU3 work that way.

Secondly, the work around, which is to do stuff in the environment, can work splendidly, but there are pros and cons (read above link). when you use that approach, the tracks in LogicPro become pure midi tracks that are disconnected from the audio channels. So the mute/solo buttons will be isolated per track, but they will be MIDI mute and MIDI solo.....and have no connection at all to the audio coming back from VePro.

And if you want to add non-midi automation through VePro, you would have to add more tracks that correspond directly to the instrument channels in order to create automation lanes, etc..

If your head is already spinning off your head wondering what I'm talking about, I can say you are a prime candidate to avoid the environment trickery for now. You can use one instrument per VePro instance, as AshMusic prefers...then your mute and solo will be isolated. Its very simple and straightforward and there are many benefits to the that approach, the only downside is that you only have one instrument per VePro Instance and lose the ability to mix your tracks in VePro if you desire. If you don't care about that, then I highly recommend you follow AshMusic's preference, one instrument track per VePro Instance.


Pros and Cons, there is no perfect answer and I am totally on the fence about which I prefer...But I generally don't like having complex environment stuff in my projects honestly speaking. But I also think its a real buzz kill that the mute/solo buttons are not isolated when using multi-timbral instruments in LogicPro. So..

for now I will just say if you want to use the environment cabling to get more then 16 tracks per VePro instance with isolated midi mute/solo, that you need to setup something like the following in the environment, in this example there would be 3 VePro instances with 32 midi channels each. So create more if you need more.






now if you look at hte above and think to yourself, "I don't understand WTF any of that means!". Then I recommend you don't go down that rabbit hole until you do. So I am going to refrain from trying to write out detailed instructions for how to set it up, which would be complicated to explain to anyone that doesn't already know enough to figure it out...and frankly I think unless you kind of know what you're doing with it, you probably should use one of the other multi-timbral approaches...or else use Ash's preferred method of one instrument per VePro instance.


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## Amoli (May 28, 2020)

Thanks for your explanation...I may venture into the dark side of the Environment.In the meantime...what do you exactly mean by the Ashermusic method of having one instrument pero VePro Instance? A 16 channel multi like Kontakt for example per VePro instance? or many single Kontakt instruments?


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## Dewdman42 (May 28, 2020)

Take Kontakt and VePro out of the discussion for a moment...

If you have any instrument that can handle different sounds at the same time on different midi channels, that is a so called "multi-timbral" instrument. If you then setup multiple tracks in LogicPro feeding into that one single multi-timbral instrument.... that is NOT the simple method. that is multi-timbral approach.

With multi-timbral approach, all of the multiple tracks...are linked to one single instrument channel which happens to be hosting a multi-timbral instrument. the mute/solo buttons will effect the entire multi-timbral instrument from all those tracks...the problem you noted earlier...they are move together because they are all linked to the same audio controls of that one multi-timbral instrument.

The most simple scenario, is one single non-multi-timbral instrument per track. Never more then one track feeding a single non-multi-timbral instrument, but all tracks are single instrument tracks... then they have a 1:1 correspondence, the mute/solo/fader on the track header are directly connected to mixer fader of that one single instrument channel, hosting a single non-multi-timbral instrument.

if you instead attempt to use Kontakt, for example, in a multi-timbral fashion, then you no longer have that 1:1 correspondence...and the mute/solo buttons will be as you noted.

VePro as a plugin can function as either a multi-timbral instrument or not. If its not, then basically it would have one solitary instrument channel in each instance. And in LogicPro you create a track, put the VePro plugin on it, connect to that one instance with that one solitary non-multi-timbral instrument, and then you have the simple case..

Alternatively, if you need to have multiple tracks feeding into a single VePro instance as a multit-timbral instrument, each with different midi channel, then the above problem about mute/solo will exist...

Unless you get deep into the environment with the pros and cons about that.


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## A.G (May 28, 2020)

Amoli said:


> what do you exactly mean by the Ashermusic method of having one instrument pero VePro Instance?


Go on with AU3 - this is the future. Do not listen what Ashermusic says (he mentioned that he stays away of AU3).

The old school Environment setup is better than the Standard Multi setup regarding Mute, Solo etc linking. Just follow my animated image example and you will be there...


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## Amoli (May 28, 2020)

I have to say I don't understand how can you have single instance of VePro with one instrument and build a 300 track template...
I do that directly in Logic where I have all single tracks using one Kontakt (single instrument) n each track.It actually works great since you can unload your samples until you need them.All automation,Solo,Mute and actually mixing works great because they are single audio tracks.It doesn't make sense to create that with VePro.Does it?
The idea of using VePro is to be able to have big templates and to keep the samples in RAM while you work so your workflows is not interrupted every time you load a new song.


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## Dewdman42 (May 28, 2020)

There are Pros and Cons, you can search this forum and find many opinions on the matter. I personally think like you, there is less advantage if you are going to put one instrument per instance, then what's the point? There is still a few things you get from that though...


If VePro is on a slave, then you are offloading CPU to the slave


You can leave your VePro server instances all loaded all the time while you switch which LogicPro project you are working on that reuses the same template.


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## Amoli (May 29, 2020)

Neither Dewman42 or A.G really explains how to create Port 2 and subsequent ports for a VePro instance using AU3 versions...I'm trying in the environment but no success here.It's not as simple as creating a mutiinstrument and connecting.So I'm back again to my first 16 channels with port 1.Ughh.


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## Wunderhorn (May 29, 2020)

Amoli said:


> Neither Dewman42 or A.G really explains how to create Port 2 and subsequent ports for a VePro instance using AU3 versions...I'm trying in the environment but no success here.It's not as simple as creating a mutiinstrument and connecting.So I'm back again to my first 16 channels with port 1.Ughh.



Yes, Dewdman explained it in detail via a link he shared: http://uii.io/hK6Th
You do not need the environment to do it at all and it does work.


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## Ashermusic (May 29, 2020)

A.G said:


> Go on with AU3 - this is the future. Do not listen what Ashermusic says (he mentioned that he stays away of AU3).
> 
> The old school Environment setup is better than the Standard Multi setup regarding Mute, Solo etc linking. Just follow my animated image example and you will be there...



If you don’t need more than 16 MIDI channels and you don’t want to have to create separate audio channels so that you have more control, which taxes your system more, than AU 3 brings little to the table over AU 2 With single instances.

And with the newer method of multitimbral instruments, the Power button is fine for turning on/off tracks flowing through the same Channel Strip. I use it daily. It’s just a matter of what you get used to.

And I would never be so disrespectful to say “don’t listen to Ivan.”


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## Dewdman42 (May 29, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> And with the newer method of multitimbral instruments, the Power button is fine for turning on/off tracks flowing through the same Channel Strip. I use it daily. It’s just a matter of what you get used to.



That's a good point! 

I think its important to point out you are talking about 3 possible modes of operation, (I can think of two more on top of that, I will elaborate in a minute).


One and only one track per VePro instance. One midi channel, one instrument in VePro instance with one audio return.


Multi-timbral AU2 (limited to 16 source tracks on 16 channels)


Multi-timbral AU3 (limited to 127 source tracks on up to 768 channels)
What I would say is that there is little or no difference between options 2&3 above, except Au2 only allows for 16 midi channels and Au3 allows for 8x more source tracks, and even 48x more midi channels if you use something like Scripter or articulationSet to channelize articulations that way. 

Otherwise they work fundamentally the same way. They are both constrained to 25 stereo return channels. Option 1 stands out as its own thing, distinct from multi-timbral operation, with pros and cons related to multi-timbral vs non-multi-timbral instrument channels.

Two more modes of operation are:


Using Logic's hidden AUX track trick to build up a multi-timbral track stack up to 16 parts. Pros and cons to that one too.


Environment midi or multi-instrument based tracks. Again, more pros and cons....and more complexity.

As far as how to setup multi-port tracks, I did explain that on the Logicforum and posted earlier here a link to that post. 









VEP7 AU3 Template and Instructions


In VSL's VEP7, an AU3 plugin has been introduced which provides for up to 127 midi channels over multiple ports per VEP instance. VEPAU3-1270-tracks.zip VEPAU3-1536-midi.zip Requirements OSX High Sierra or above LogicPro 10.4.5 or above Template Notes Due to bugs in LogicPro as of 10.6, the track...




www.logicprohelp.com





that should be enough to get you going. Just follow the instructions there and do it N number of times for however many VePro instances you want to use. You can create up to 127 tracks per VePro instance, following the instructions on that post. I provided there an example project already created with 10 VePro instances and 1270 tracks. You can also start with that one and continue adding more VePro instances using the instructions I provided on the same forum thread.

You can also go ahead and delete any of those tracks from those example projects that you want, for example if you only want 20 or 30 tracks per VePro instance, then just delete the others, no problem. And if you need more than 10 VePro instances, then follow the instructions to add more.

I specifically did those instructions in a way that you should not have to go into the environment AT ALL. 

But if you want to build up a larger template using environment objects, etc..as we previously discussed, then you have to go into the environment and it becomes much more complicated and basically I would not mess with that unless you kind of know what you're doing in the environment, at least for basic stuff, and understand the relationships between various environment objects and the track/mixer pages of LogicPro, how instrument channels and objects are allocated and assigned automatically by logicPro when you create tracks, etc..


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## A.G (May 29, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> And I would never be so disrespectful to say “don’t listen to Ivan.”


You are welcome to say that in case you see that I push the people in a wrong direction .


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## A.G (May 29, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> I think its important to point out you are talking about 3 possible modes of operation, (I can think of two more on top of that, I will elaborate in a minute).
> 
> 1. One and only one track per VePro instance. One midi channel, one instrument in VePro instance with one audio return.
> 
> ...



Let me add two advanced methods powered by AG VEP Multi Instance (Kontakt only):

4. Multi-timbral AU2: 16 source channels => 1024 target MIDI Channels (up to 16 Kontakts per VEP instance).

5. Multi-timbral AU3: 16 source channels and 8192 target MIDI Channels (up to 128 Kontakts per VEP instance).

AG methods 4 & 5 ignore the 16 Channels limitation and allow you to switch up to 64 Kontakt MIDI tracks (Kontakt Ports ABCD) via a single track in your DAW.
AU3 is physically limited to 16 MIDI Channels and you cannot switch all Kontakt channels 1-64 via a single track, which is a big inconvenience for large sample libraries. Using all Kontakt Ports saves CPU 1:4 as well.
The other advantage is the CC Smart cloning which multiplies a single Controller# stream to the MIDI channels of the currently sustaining Notes only. This tech saves a lot of CPU and MIDI band width.

BTW. All methods 1-5 are user's specific so everyone can decide which is best for his specific project.


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