# Stop buying new sample libraries. It ain't helping ya!



## Desire Inspires (Oct 21, 2016)

The problem isn't with the sample libraries themselves. I think people who use sample libraries don't really invest into using what they have. People just buy and buy and buy stuff and end up unsatisfied. It's like an addiction of sorts.

What works best is to actually make music!

Yes, make music with what you have instead of worrying about what you do not have. I hear good music that goes to waste because of insecurities and nit-picking when it comes to sounds. Too much tweaking and knob-turning and obsessing over details. Just make songs with the things you have and enjoy yourself.

People become rock stars from using the same drum kit or guitar or keyboard for years. So why is there a need to constantly upgrade VSTs and sample libraries? It doesn't help to improve your skill set. Each new piece of equipment requires time to adjust and learn. 

So buy one or two new libraries a year and actually make music. No more anger and frustration and depression over sounds. People all around the world who don't even have access to electricity and indoor plumbing are creating great music with the simple but quality tools that they have. More tools does not create a better craftsman.

Make some music, then make some more, then some more. The tools will matter less and less once you get a work ethic and some discipline.


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## Mike Fox (Oct 21, 2016)

Great points! I will say that buying new libraries for me has opened up new possibilities, and ways to do things I couldn't have done without them. So it's a double edged sword. After the thousands of dollars I've spent on software, and in retrospect, I easily could have gotten by with just Symphobia and TS1. But I find myself wanting more libraries as opposed to needing them. I've also purchased a couple of libraries on impulse, and ended up regretting it. It can be distracting, and can actually hurt the creative process. I will say that I've never paid full price for a library, and that I always wait for sales. I also wait a couple of years until the price comes down. This is one way I've been able to justify my addictive habit. I have recently made myself the promise that I won't buy anything else for a VERY long time. I have everything I need, plus some.


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## dpasdernick (Oct 21, 2016)

Desire Inspires said:


> The problem isn't with the sample libraries themselves. I think people who use sample libraries don't really invest into using what they have. People just buy and buy and buy stuff and end up unsatisfied. It's like an addiction of sorts.
> 
> What works best is to actually make music!
> 
> ...



Yup, yup and yup,

I got into buying old hardware synths and have monkeyed around for close to two years inserting them into my DAW workflow. I love them but they have been an albatross around my neck for sure. Omnisphere, a decent orch library and most of the free stuff that you get with your DAW software should have you writing masterpieces. 

And in other news I just bought a Yamaha DX7 II FD with Grey Matter E! to add to the 4 other hardware synths I bought in 2016... I don't write a lot of music but my studio looks bitchin...


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## muk (Oct 22, 2016)

The difficult part is to know what you need, as opposed to what you simply want. One telltale sign is if you are reading online forums, learn about a new library and want to buy it instantly. Chances are you don't really need it. On the other hand, if you are making music, write a piece, want to mock it up and realize that you either don't have any samples at all for a certain part, or the samples you have for that part don't let you do something you have written even after tweaking and fiddling for hours on end. You then start searching for the most inexpensive library that lets you do exactly what you've written. These often are the cases were you really could use a new sample library.

The second case above tends to become increasingly rare though, once you built a good stock of samples.


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## mc_deli (Oct 22, 2016)

Desire Inspires said:


> The problem isn't with the sample libraries themselves. I think people who use sample libraries don't really invest into using what they have. People just buy and buy and buy stuff and end up unsatisfied. It's like an addiction of sorts.
> 
> What works best is to actually make music!
> 
> ...


Not really off topic is it? It's bang on. The topic


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## Saxer (Oct 22, 2016)

It's a bit like gambling. You know what's possible and you know what's missing or is uncomfortable to use. Every next step could be a step forward but mostly it isn't. I have a lot of libraries I opened and played just to realize that there was too much hope. On the other hand there are often some pearls I recognize after a long while of non-using.
I find it hard to listen to some mockups I did ten years ago. Even if they are musically ok I can't stand the sound. 
The libraries doesn't make the composition better. But sometimes they improve the orchestration just by making things possible you would have avoided with libraries that sound bad in that context.
But you have to know what you need and even more what you already have! Would save a lot of money, download time and templating.


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## Baron Greuner (Oct 22, 2016)

Saxer said:


> I have a lot of libraries I opened and played just to realize that there was too much hope. On the other hand there are often some pearls I recognize after a long while of non-using.
> I find it hard to listen to some mockups I did ten years ago. Even if they are musically ok I can't stand the sound.
> The libraries doesn't make the composition better. But sometimes they improve the orchestration just by making things possible you would have avoided with libraries that sound bad in that context.
> But you have to know what you need and even more what you already have! Would save a lot of money, download time and templating.



"just to realise there was too much hope" Percy Shelly would have loved that line and I know from family genes!! 

Some great things to talk about in there Saxer. The issues of hope after watching sample library videos is a deep subject to me. A lot of what it boils down to is a lot of people are not planning. They do not try and work out what they want a particular sound for in the first place. They are not looking at what they write in relation to what they are listening to. They are not setting realistic goals. They are divorcing what they have done in the past with what they think they can do in the future. For example, through reasons such as wishful thinking, they are buying an orchestral library when they should be buying Omnisphere. Or they are getting a really complicated VST synth because they liked one sound on the video, when they should be having piano lessons. And many other reasons.
I like to think that sample library developers know all of the above, and exploit it. I would.

If you do writing for a living, then you should work out what your next 15 tracks are about and ask yourself if you already have the sounds necessary. Apparently though, for a lot of people, that's much too simple.

Sample libraries sit on hard drives and are not physical. That is another problem, especially for older school people.


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## G.R. Baumann (Oct 22, 2016)

Apart from all said being true, I find the market, especially in the orchestral domain way overpriced. Without naming a particular one, self agrandising marketing and one superlative after the other, it's utterly ridiculous what you get for the cash they are asking for.

There are others, where this is not the case of course.

But frankly I am sick of the slice and dice salami sale tactics and boring to the bone "walkthroughs", goofing on a patch for 2-3 seconds, next patch, and a lot of marketing blah blah in between.

Others will see that different, but I stopped buying in a reflexive manner when the latest, and of course greatest, is launched, especially if resale of the product is prohibited. I ended up with dead meat on the HD too often before. I might need a particular library for a single project, and afterwards it's no use to me anymore.

If I compare the mileage I get out of Omnisphere in terms of bang for the buck compared to already overpriced sample libs, the picture is pretty clear.

To me it's a cash cow that is milked over and over again, while what is offered is very limited, and of course if you want more details, articulations etc. need to buy more, and more, and more....did I say more?

Know what? I predict this market will change radically rather sooner than later, with new technology on the horizon that may allow articulations and recording of samples to be performed different, much more efficient as well, only a matter of time.....


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## erica-grace (Oct 22, 2016)

Desire Inspires said:


> The problem isn't with the sample libraries themselves. I think people who use sample libraries don't really invest into using what they have. People just buy and buy and buy stuff and end up unsatisfied. It's like an addiction of sorts.
> 
> What works best is to actually make music!
> 
> ...



Problem with this theory is as follows:

If you are using sample libraries as your final product - ie, if you do TV Library cues, and ad work, chances are your final product uses little to no live players; it's almost all (if not all) samples. Now we all know that adding more sample libraries will not make you a better composer, but clients expect the latest and the greatest. If a potential client goes to your website and doesn't see Berlin Brass (just using that as an example), they may say "well, why does this person not have it?" Now,if you have other good brass libraries, it may not be necessary to have BB to get the job done. But if the client thinks it is, he/she may look elsewhere.

So, while I appreciate the "go make some music" approach, you do need to have a certain number of high-profile and "latest and the greatest" libraries in your arsenal if you expect to make a living off of music.


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## erica-grace (Oct 22, 2016)

G.R. Baumann said:


> Apart from all said being true, I find the market, especially in the orchestral domain way overpriced.



No way. As saturated as the orchestral domain market is, it way UNDERpriced. How much was EWQLSO 10 years ago? About $6,000 if you wanted the entire package, with the add-ons. Great sound, but no legato, only sparse RRs here and there, limited articulations. Nowadays, prices have come down so much - which is what the market demanded - but no way are orchestral libraries overpriced. I think a lot of people are spoiled by what we have available to us nowadays, and fail to realize that we are getting so much more for our money than in days past.


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## Hannes_F (Oct 22, 2016)

erica-grace said:


> but clients expect the latest and the greatest. If a potential client goes to your website and doesn't see Berlin Brass (just using that as an example), they may say "well, why does this person not have it?" Now,if you have other good brass libraries, it may not be necessary to have BB to get the job done. But if the client thinks it is, he/she may look elsewhere.



Potential clients check your library list, really?


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## chimuelo (Oct 22, 2016)

Keyscape Rhodes was a new must have, but Im pretty sure everything I need has been covered.
Hell I still use the Emulator II Sledgehammer Shakuhachi ported to Kontakt.
Sometimes less is more.


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## chimuelo (Oct 22, 2016)

I was denied gigs at a Club Circuit because I didnt have Chris Hein Complete.
Once I upgraded from Chris Hein 2 I e mailed the reciept to the owner of the Chain of clubs and we got 6 dates out of him.


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## erica-grace (Oct 22, 2016)

Hannes_F said:


> Potential clients check your library list, really?



Was that supposed to be sarcastic?

Some have told me that they do, yes.


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## Hannes_F (Oct 22, 2016)

erica-grace said:


> Was that supposed to be sarcastic?
> Some have told me that they do, yes.


No it was an honest question.


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## Baron Greuner (Oct 22, 2016)

Erica, I've never known Hannes to be sarcastic.

Surprising that clients even know, or think they know what the difference is between one sample library to another. This is based on the real knowledge that audiences don't really know the difference between Bach and rap music.


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## erica-grace (Oct 22, 2016)

Hannes_F said:


> No it was an honest question.



Oh, ok. Couldn't tell. 

But yes, I have had some people say that the "like my list", or that they are "glad I have abc".... So, yes, it helps, I think.


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## Hannes_F (Oct 22, 2016)

erica-grace said:


> Oh, ok. Couldn't tell.
> But yes, I have had some people say that the "like my list", or that they are "glad I have abc".... So, yes, it helps, I think.


And would you say it had a considerable impact on decisions, e. g. hiring you? Again, this is not sarcastic but an honest question.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 22, 2016)

I haven't heard this one before either, so I'm curious as well.


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## erica-grace (Oct 22, 2016)

Hannes_F said:


> And would you say it had a considerable impact on decisions, e. g. hiring you?



Well, I haven't heard anyone tell me that they hired me specifically because I have xxx. But I have gotten the impression that what I have has at least helped at times. Although I would like to think that my compositional skills have more to do with getting hired on a gig than anything else, sometimes you just don't know with people.



Baron Greuner said:


> Surprising that clients even know, or think they know what the difference is between one sample library to another.



Many do not, but there are some who do.


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## chimuelo (Oct 22, 2016)

Club owners are even pickier.
Tonight the guy wanted to make sure I had Zebra 2 HZ.

Just kiddin....

I can see clients as liaisons being former composers themselves representing jingle house or broadcast companies.


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## G.R. Baumann (Oct 23, 2016)

Reminds of that old funny story amongst photographers.  Goes like this...

On his first major venue, exhibiting his large format prints, the photographer finished addressing the crowd, when a world famous cook came to him and asked him about his pictures. 

Cook: "Wow, they are really good pictures. I am deeply impressed. I guess you must have a very expensive camera."

Photographer: ....smiles, raises eyebrow, remains silent, turns around....

Few weeks later, the same photographer visits a restaurant where the famous cook from the exhibition was the owner. So he ordered a sumptuous 5 course meal, and when he finished he demanded the chef. Cook came to his table and asked if everything was to his orders, and he answered that everything was just perfect. 

Photographer: ....smiles.... "Really, I mean REALLY exceptionally good food, outstanding, unique so to speak. Thank you very much Chef!! and btw.... I am certain.... you must have very expensive pots! "...


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## G.R. Baumann (Oct 23, 2016)

Thing is, the challenge is to find the very best samples for your kind of music, getting them balanced to sound like a cohesive orchestra sitting in the same room. Right?

You can expect to spend thousands of dollars to get that right. The market is not as saturated as some may want to believe, but is dominated by a handfull of players.

There are wonderful exceptions to be found of course. Like this baby, with a footprint of 571 Gigabyte...no just kidding.... 105 megabyte, and selling for 15 bucks....

I am not affiliated! Just saying...


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