# New controller: Komplete Kontrol S88 vs stage piano



## evilantal (Jul 25, 2018)

I'm buying a new controller and considering my options.
I think I've narrowed it down to two:
- NI Komplete Kontrol S88
- Kawai MP7 stage piano

I like the idea of the level of integration of the S88 but fear that I would not like the key action.

I was using a Kawai ES100 as controller and really like the keybed but miss having pitch and mod wheels.

Key action is my prime concern, but having onboard sounds is a great bonus when playing live.

Anyone facing a similar dilemma? How is the S88 when you're used to maybe more piano-y keybeds?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 25, 2018)

I personally LOVE the fatar keybed on the S88, especially for piano work. I still occasionally slide over to the nectar LX88 for synth and drum stuff (if I need a faster key response), but I am impressed. My only gripe is the goofy mod and pitch touch strips. They work okay, but they are too close together and I find myself touching the pitch strip by accident when using the mod strip. I fixed that by running TouchOSC from my iPhone; I made a big virtual mod wheel and the phone sits perfectly on the S88 (don't have to reach way over). Also, integration with Cubase, Logic, and nks instruments is wonderful. I rarely touch my trackpad anymore.


----------



## Silence-is-Golden (Jul 25, 2018)

evilantal said:


> Key action is my prime concern


then you will probably not favour the NI s88.
I use the MP7 myself and am glad with the piano like feel of the keybed. The fatar on the S88 is semi weighted if I recall correctly and will not (not for me) generate the needed response when playing a vi piano.

In arnhem is still a music instrument shop (eiland muziek?) if they still exist ,that may provide a demo model for you to try out one or both models......

off course the nks integration is one of the great benefits of the NI keyboards. But who knows,.... if you want to wait awhile and see if they come out with a s88 MK2 model whether that would improve things on the keybed end?

maybe @EvilDragon will want to inform us of any rumours? :D


----------



## Garry (Jul 25, 2018)

You may find this thread helpful.

I was not initially a fan (the keys are just ok, nothing wonderful), but once I more fully appreciated the value of Komplete Kontrol and its integration in Kontakt & Logic, now I really like it. Using the light guide to show key switches, instrument ranges, etc is great. Having 8 knobs to control parameters is useful. I find the touch strips for pitch bend and modulation awful, but I use a Korg nanokontrol2 for fader control, and find this much better than a mod wheel anyway. 

So, if lost/stolen/damaged, I would replace the s88 with another.


----------



## ZOZZ (Jul 25, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I personally LOVE the fatar keybed on the S88, especially for piano work. I still occasionally slide over to the nectar LX88 for synth and drum stuff (if I need a faster key response), but I am impressed. My only gripe is the goofy mod and pitch touch strips. They work okay, but they are too close together and I find myself touching the pitch strip by accident when using the mod strip. I fixed that by running TouchOSC from my iPhone; I made a big virtual mod wheel and the phone sits perfectly on the S88 (don't have to reach way over). Also, integration with Cubase, Logic, and nks instruments is wonderful. I rarely touch my trackpad anymore.


I pretty much have had the same experience with my S88. I think the keybed is great on the S88.


----------



## EvilDragon (Jul 25, 2018)

Once you try a very good stage piano, action on S88 is quite funny. I don't like it at all...


----------



## Michael Antrum (Jul 26, 2018)

The Roland RD700 GX/NX have a terrific hammer action keybed and can be picked up quite cheaply now, but curses on them for their silly addiction to a sprung joystick for modulation/pitch bend. Of course if you map CC's to another control they are terrific keybeds.

Personally I have a Nord Stage 2 EX, which I also use for VI's - I find that sometimes I want a hammer action keybed, and other times I want a synth action keyed. The Fatar keyed on the Stage II EX is a happy medium for me. If I didn't have the Nord, I'd likely buy a NI S88, but I'd wait until they update it as the MK II cannot be far off now and they have dumped those touch ship thingies and gone to proper mod/pitch wheels now.

I have, however, picked up a second hand Seaboard Rise 25, and I am looking (when I get some time) to set that up with some of my string libraries with MPE. I've seen some very expressive lines delivered from a Roli, it looks really interesting at what some people have got out of them. This kind of blew me away....


----------



## evilantal (Jul 26, 2018)

Hmmm, that's what I was sort of afraid of.
A modwheel I could miss (I have a Faderport and Miditech MTB), but a spring loaded pitch wheel or stick is needed for synth leads.

Anyone compare the S88 keybed to a Studiologic S990 Pro or Numa Nano which I owned previously? Since it has a Fatar keybed.

Interesting. I was also thinking about coupling with a Seaboard. The 25 wouldn't be big enough probably so I'd have to go for a 49. But that's a bit too expensive for me. Maybe two Seaboard blocks?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 26, 2018)

Silence-is-Golden said:


> The fatar on the S88 is semi weighted if I recall correctly



The S88 is fully weighted, to me it feels like a real piano.


----------



## EvilDragon (Jul 26, 2018)

Except that action is quite sluggish to spring back compared to a real piano... a real problem with TP/100 actions by Fatar (Kurzweil Artis uses the same action and has exactly the same problem). Kawai MP7 has leaps and bounds better action than S88. Hell, even the cheap (when compared to Kawai or upper tier RD-2000) Casio PX5S to me has a better action than S88...


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 26, 2018)

It's really comes down to personal preference. I prefer the S88 action over the MP7 (I don't find it sluggish at all). Always try before you buy.


----------



## Jan16 (Jul 27, 2018)

I think NI is about to release a MkII S88 since the current S88 is down 200 Euros, so if I were contemplating a new controller I'd wait a month or two.


----------



## agarner32 (Jul 27, 2018)

I had to stop using my NI S88 because the keys started making loud clicking noises. I never really did like the action and thought it was sluggish. No way does it compare to a real piano. I have 7 foot Mason and Hamlin next to my work desk when I want a real piano sound and feel. If you’re a pianist you will be limited with what you can do technically in my opinion. But then again, there isn’t any digital piano that feels like the real thing to me.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 27, 2018)

agarner32 said:


> I had to stop using my NI S88 because the keys started making loud clicking noises



You should contact NI, that's sounds like a defective keybed.


----------



## agarner32 (Jul 27, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> You should contact NI, that's sounds like a defective keybed.


Maybe I'll give that a shot, but I'm way over the warranty period. Perhaps it can be fixed. If not, it's just sitting collecting dust. I'm now using a Yamaha CP4 which is pretty decent.


----------



## novaburst (Jul 27, 2018)

mikeybabes said:


> The Roland RD700 GX/NX have a terrific hammer action keybed and can be picked up quite cheaply now, but curses on them for their silly addiction to a sprung joystick for modulation/pitch bend. Of course if you map CC's to another control they are terrific keybeds.
> 
> Personally I have a Nord Stage 2 EX, which I also use for VI's - I find that sometimes I want a hammer action keybed, and other times I want a synth action keyed. The Fatar keyed on the Stage II EX is a happy medium for me. If I didn't have the Nord, I'd likely buy a NI S88, but I'd wait until they update it as the MK II cannot be far off now and they have dumped those touch ship thingies and gone to proper mod/pitch wheels now.
> 
> I have, however, picked up a second hand Seaboard Rise 25, and I am looking (when I get some time) to set that up with some of my string libraries with MPE. I've seen some very expressive lines delivered from a Roli, it looks really interesting at what some people have got out of them. This kind of blew me away....




nord is a top controller but mainly synth work, but I am seeing more and more of the RSB in use these days seems to be a slam dunk for orchestral work and as you can see live


----------



## Erick - BVA (Jul 27, 2018)

I'm a fan of Kawai pianos/keyboards, but have not tried NI offerings. Yeah, if there's any way that you can test it out. I just got a new Alesis Recital Pro for cheap, and it's funny how much better it is than my Roland EP97 that just died. You don't really feel the difference until you try it side by side. I had been using the EP97 for the last 4+ years (and it's a 15+ year old keyboard). So switching to even a modern cheap stage piano was leaps and bounds above the old Roland. And different strokes for different folks.


----------



## Rob Elliott (Jul 27, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Once you try a very good stage piano, action on S88 is quite funny. I don't like it at all...


My feelings exactly. I kept my S88 for a year - 11 months too long. Keybed is noisey and funky, inconsistent. Went back to my Yamaha S90es (best ever) - Hoping for NI to come up with a true professional keybed. The integration on the S88 is awesome though. Kinda sad they can't get the action right.


----------



## EvilDragon (Jul 27, 2018)

I mean, Fatar has some great keybeds, don't misunderstand me. It's just that TP/100 that NI chose is not it. They should've went with the same one used in Studiologic's SL88 Grand (triple sensor, graded hammer).


----------



## Rob Elliott (Jul 27, 2018)

Agreed. To keep the price points under a grand they opted for the cheaper version. :( Anyone hear any rumors that they might reconsider that short-sightedness and release a 'pro' version? I'd buy it yesterday!


----------



## EvilDragon (Jul 27, 2018)

That's anyone's guess... But I don't think it'd cost that much more to go with SL88 keybed...


----------



## Rob Elliott (Jul 27, 2018)

Much of my gut says - from a business perspective - not a good one for NI to invest in the re-design using a more pro keybed. 'Most' don't complain about the keybed problems and the NKS integration is worth the 'compromise' (at least that is what they are probably thinking about the lion's share their customer base.) :(


----------



## Leon Portelance (Jul 27, 2018)

My main keyboard is a Yamaha P-240, 88 fully weighted keys, being a piano player it made me happy. I also have a Nektar 25+ for ARTzID and synth leads.


----------



## evilantal (Jul 28, 2018)

Yes, I imagine "producers" wouldn't value a realistic piano feel much...

Reading all this has made up my mind, I think.
I'll go for the MP7. But now the seller I found has gone non-responsive :/
Better look for a backup plan...
Fingers crossed.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Jul 28, 2018)

This could be the perfect answer, and it only costs................ Oh dear....

https://www.korg.com/uk/products/synthesizers/kronos2_ls/


----------



## evilantal (Jul 28, 2018)

The Roland FP-90 could've been a contender...only, it also doesn't have pitch and mod wheels.

How's the Kawai MP6 vs the MP7?


----------



## jaketanner (Aug 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> I mean, Fatar has some great keybeds, don't misunderstand me. It's just that TP/100 that NI chose is not it. They should've went with the same one used in Studiologic's SL88 Grand (triple sensor, graded hammer).



Their SL88 Studio is also TP/100 but has triple sensors and after touch. I emailed studio logic once about their Keybeds and asked why will the exact same key type (TP/100), feel and sound different in other keyboards. They said it’s because of the enclosure that’s used and triple sensor seems to be an option. So judging all TP/100 actions by one failed controller isn’t fair. Arturia seems to also use the same Keybed, yet it’s inferior to NI and much noisier. 

I’m toying with the idea of getting the SL Studio just because it might be a better all arounder than the Grand. Piano is the least instrument used for me, and I’m a classically trained pianist. Lol but I do scoring work, and I think the Studio is better suited for controlling strings, and other orchestral elements as well as synths for trailers work. 

Any other contenders in that $500-800 range? Also key noise is also a concern. So if you say the Grand is much quieter than the Studio, I’d opt for quite. Thanks


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 6, 2018)

No I tried TP/100 in some other boards (including the SL Studio, as well as Kurzweil Artis) and it was sluggish as well. Definitely disliked that action completely.


----------



## jaketanner (Aug 6, 2018)

So you have t tried the Grand version as comparison? You are just familiar with the TP/40 wood in other boards? I’m in PA, and no local store here has anything decent to try out.


----------



## jaketanner (Aug 6, 2018)

I know that triple sensors are a thing...and I am sure they are very relevant. But in the Greg Phillinganes Keyscape video, they use a Roland A88...not triple sensor. If it's good enough to show off a great PIANO library, wouldn't it be good enough to play piano without the triple sensors?


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 6, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> So you have t tried the Grand version as comparison?



Yes, I did, it's better to me than the Studio. Still, RD-2000 beats any Fatar action I've tried so far, my 2c.



jaketanner said:


> If it's good enough to show off a great PIANO library, wouldn't it be good enough to play piano without the triple sensors?



Well first off I wouldn't say Keyscape is a great piano library (it's missing things like sympathetic resonance and continuous pedalling to be considered great in my view). But really, triple sensor is important in certain aspects of playing, like being able to do very fast trills or key repetitions, or playing legato in ppp, which is very hard and some things are near impossible to play with dual sensor boards. If you're not using those techniques you should be fine with a dual sensor board. But hey, triple sensor is one more - it's gotta be better, yeah?


----------



## jaketanner (Aug 6, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Yes, I did, it's better to me than the Studio. Still, RD-2000 beats any Fatar action I've tried so far, my 2c.
> 
> 
> 
> Well first off I wouldn't say Keyscape is a great piano library (it's missing things like sympathetic resonance and continuous pedalling to be considered great in my view). But really, triple sensor is important in certain aspects of playing, like being able to do very fast trills or key repetitions, or playing legato in ppp, which is very hard and some things are near impossible to play with dual sensor boards. If you're not using those techniques you should be fine with a dual sensor board. But hey, triple sensor is one more - it's gotta be better, yeah?



I don’t have keyscape. I plan on buying the Embertone Walker and I agree triple is better.


----------



## sostenuto (Aug 6, 2018)

FYI _ at the moment, B&H Photo in USA has SL88 Grand at popular price _and tosses in_ E/W Hollywood Strings Gold Ed.


----------



## jaketanner (Aug 6, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> FYI _ at the moment, B&H Photo in USA has SL88 Grand at popular price _and tosses in_ E/W Hollywood Strings Gold Ed.



I’ve been to BHphoto many times. Not too far from me. Thanks for heads up. Hopefully it’s set up to trigger so piano. Playing a dead keybed doesn’t tell you how it triggers MIDI data.


----------



## sostenuto (Aug 6, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> I’ve been to BHphoto many times. Not too far from me. Thanks for heads up. Hopefully it’s set up to trigger so piano. Playing a dead keybed doesn’t tell you how it triggers MIDI data.



Oops !!! NO ModWheel …..  Wanting to move on from nice Roland KR577 Digi Piano, but need Mod Wheel & Pitch Bend.


----------



## tcollins (Aug 6, 2018)

I use an older version, an MP5 for live playing, and it feels great. I haven't tried the S88, though.


----------



## evilantal (Aug 8, 2018)

I took ED's advice (among others) and skipped the S88 due to the expected disappointment with the key action.
I bought a B-Stock Kawai MP7 SE (the new version) and it should arrive this week.

For what it's worth, I've used Studiologic/Fatar keybeds in the past (SL990 PRO, Numa Nano) and was pretty happy with them. Pretty heavy action though if you're not used to it and quite noisy action as well when the keys hit the bottom, which was the main reason for me to switch to Kawai.


----------



## 5Lives (Aug 18, 2018)

Anybody have the Kawai VPC1? Don't hear much about that one.


----------



## Josh Richman (Aug 19, 2018)

YA MA HA

Say it with me folks!


----------



## ratherbirds (Aug 19, 2018)

The Roland A88 seems not to be marketed anymore. No Yamaha midi controller keyboard either. Can we expect new releases next? I hope so. Otherwise, we will be obliged to play piano or virtual synth libraries on keyboards (digital piano, cheaper) with built-in sound generator and MIDI control external module (wheel, rotary knobs ..). Not a progress!


----------



## banes (Aug 20, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Yes, I did, it's better to me than the Studio. Still, RD-2000 beats any Fatar action I've tried so far, my 2c.



I agree with you, if only Roland could do a high end midi keyboard/controller from the RD-2000


----------



## steveo42 (Aug 20, 2018)

banes said:


> I agree with you, if only Roland could do a high end midi keyboard/controller from the RD-2000



I felt the same way because I have gazzillions of sounds. Even still, I sprang for the RD-2000 and it's incredible IMHO. Not perfect, but action wise it's the best out there and all the sounds are icing on the cake. If I was stranded on a desert island, this would be the keyboard I would want.


----------



## jononotbono (Aug 20, 2018)

agarner32 said:


> No way does it compare to a real piano



Yeah. When I tried one I thought it felt like a toy. No way did it feel like a real Piano.
Thinking about getting an S61 mk2 at some point for a Synth action/Drum programming Controller etc though so I can also make use of the Lightguide. For Perc Libraries that must be a very handy feature.
Would love to know what the S88 mk2 will be like and if the action is improved but I can't help but feel it will be exactly the same as the mk1 but with the trimmings of the mk2 Controllers. Time will tell.


----------



## mordonez52 (Aug 29, 2018)

Greetings- first post, just joined (just bought Keyscape, haven't had a ton of time to learn much about it, integrate into Logic, etc). From a controller standpoint, maybe this is not a common choice, but I have a Casio PX-5s (88 key, weighted, a crap ton of assignable sliders and knobs). There's a huge community of folks with this board- (the Facebook group has a 4000 people in it, and Casio is VERY active in it) using it as both a pretty powerful sound source and a controller, and from what I can tell it is triple sensor. I like the feel of it. 

You can likely find one for about $700 used--excellent budget option, I'd think.


----------

