# Outnumbered and Surrounded (Adagio, HS, HB, HOW, BWW, Spitfire, Diva, Omnisphere; VSS)



## Mihkel Zilmer (Nov 6, 2012)

Hi everyone,

Here's a new short piece of mine, something sci-fi / horror inspired, featuring some synths
alongside all the usual orchestral suspects. 

I've now also started incorporating some parts of Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds into my template - 
though this time around it's only the contrabassoon that's from HOW, the rest of the woodwinds are BWW.

Also, I've switched to Virtual SoundStage for Adagio positioning. 

Thank you for listening and I would love to hear your thoughts!

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F66130711&secret_url=false[/flash]

http://soundcloud.com/mihkelz/outnumbered


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## jamwerks (Nov 6, 2012)

Sounds great. You're a talented guy.

You're mix is also top notch !


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## Gerald (Nov 6, 2012)

Very good job as usual!, and very clever use of the sounds of the orchestra


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## Resoded (Nov 6, 2012)

Great work Mihkel!


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Nov 7, 2012)

Thank you so much for your comments!


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## R.Cato (Nov 7, 2012)

You're really a talented artist, Mihkel. Very atmospheric track. Your orchestral writing skills are amazing.


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Nov 8, 2012)

R.Cato @ Wed Nov 07 said:


> You're really a talented artist, Mihkel. Very atmospheric track. Your orchestral writing skills are amazing.



Thank you so much, you are too kind. I always feel like there is much room for improvement still, and lots to learn..


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## ghostnote (Nov 14, 2012)

I'm not a big fan of woodwinds and don't use them quite often but I really like the use of Woodwinds in this piece. very nice, thanks for sharing mihkel!


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Nov 15, 2012)

Michael Chrostek @ Wed Nov 14 said:


> I'm not a big fan of woodwinds and don't use them quite often but I really like the use of Woodwinds in this piece. very nice, thanks for sharing mihkel!



Thank you Michael! I have to admit I feel the opposite way about woodwinds, even though that does not mean that I use them very prominently all the time - sometimes they just provide that little bit of extra colour I'm looking for.


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## ghostnote (Nov 16, 2012)

I know what you mean. woodwinds can really add fullness (when doubed with the strings) but they color the sound aswell, that's what I dislike. Of course it always depends on which timbre you are looking for and flute-runs are great for adding movement to the composition. I often use woodwinds for RPG stuff but it wouldn't cross my mind to use them in an orchestral hybrid context. I think they just sound too positive, too good to be true (if you know what I mean ). I'm trying to avoid trumpets aswell (I use them only to double the strings). They sound too elevated + I can't find trumpet samples that sound realistic to my ears. I think it's more a personal taste.


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## danielcartisano (Nov 17, 2012)

This is excellent! Love the dynamics especially!

How do you like VSS? I've been thinking about getting it... Do you know how it compares to Ircam Spat?


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Nov 20, 2012)

danielcartisano @ Sat Nov 17 said:


> This is excellent! Love the dynamics especially!
> 
> How do you like VSS? I've been thinking about getting it... Do you know how it compares to Ircam Spat?



Thank you!

VSS is a great piece of software (especially for the price). It sounds great. It's missing a few features I'd love to have, but most of these seem to be on the to-do list. 

SPAT offers a lot more flexibility and functionality, of course, but that makes it more difficult to use. I should add that the reverb that comes with SPAT didn't really impress me too much (I know some people who love it, though), so I ended up using my own reverbs on top of the spatialization anyway. Also, Flux promised 64 bit support on Macs in August, but has still not delivered.

You should really give both of these plugins a try - demos are available for both of them.


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## JoKern (Nov 20, 2012)

Hey Mihkel, 

wow! Nothing more to say - love the strings sound, the brutal brass, ...


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## leafInTheWind (Nov 20, 2012)

Sounds awesome dude


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Nov 21, 2012)

Glad to hear you've enjoyed it! Thank you!


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## zacnelson (Nov 22, 2012)

As usual, a very professional sounding and entertaining piece from you Mikhel!


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Nov 23, 2012)

zacnelson @ Thu Nov 22 said:


> As usual, a very professional sounding and entertaining piece from you Mikhel!



And as usual, very kind comments from you Zac. Thank you!


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## jhansson (Nov 24, 2012)

Excellent work , very good mixing ! perfect !


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Nov 27, 2012)

I hate to piss on your work, friend, but, while I agree that you have orchestral chops, the whole thing just feels like a parade of effects (well done, I might add). I guess I'm missing an Ariadne's thread, some melodic fragment or repeated harmonic progression that would tie everything together.


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Nov 27, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Nov 27 said:


> I hate to piss on your work, friend, but, while I agree that you have orchestral chops, the whole thing just feels like a parade of effects (well done, I might add). I guess I'm missing an Ariadne's thread, some melodic fragment or repeated harmonic progression that would tie everything together.



Thank you for your comments Ned, 

You are of course completely right. Apart from the quaver ostinato pulse and a simple three-chord progression of superimposed triads there is hardly any other material to provide any cohesiveness to the piece.

I've been posting these little template tests for a few months now and should probably have included a description of their purpose and context. This, and the other pieces I've posted are primarily meant to test the sonic capabilities of my orchestral template. They are also exercises in speed-writing. I pick a genre (in this case sci-fi & horror) and allow myself a set number of hours to explore the different sides of the specific genre, trying various orchestral combinations at different dynamics to see how they react and fill their role in the orchestral template. I consider it a valuable experience because it has led me to discover short-comings and weaknesses in my setup, while helping creativity and speed. But of course, experimenting with numerous different approaches within a single short piece won't help its cohesiveness.. but that's not something I'm looking for to begin with.

Cheers,
Mihkel


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## JPQ (Nov 28, 2012)

What is used for which sound ?


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Nov 29, 2012)

JPQ @ Thu Nov 29 said:


> What is used for which sound ?



The list of the instruments used is in the thread title..

Here's a more detailed break-down:

Vln I and II - 8Dio Adagio Violins
Vla, Vlc, Cb - HS Gold
Percussion - Spitfire Percussion, 8Dio Epic Toms
Woodwinds - All woodwinds are Berlin Woodwinds, except for Contrabassoon, which is HOW Gold
Brass - HB Gold
Synths - uHe Diva and Spectrasonics Omnisphere


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