# New Mac Pro to finally arrive



## utopia (Jun 5, 2012)

Just saw this..for those of you who have been waiting - www.macrumors.com/2012/06/05/mac-pro-to ... next-week/


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## Tatu (Jun 5, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfiAsWR4qU

8)


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## chimuelo (Jun 5, 2012)

C608 Chipset looks old hat to me.
PCI 2.0 and USB 2.0 aren't very exciting and the Copperwire Thundebolt is not going to get much support, especially from soundcard developers.
LightPeak ( TBolt II ) is a different story, and I still don't see UADs Apollo out yet w/ TBolt Copperwire.
I love Logic and dont get to use it, but I did I would pass on this MacPro as it sure lags behind PCs and costs are the usual 30-40% higher for older parts.
The E5 is basically a higher binned CPU, unless I read the wrong Intel specs.

Just for an example, the newest Z77 CHipset with an i7 3770k can be built w/ fast ass low voltage, low profile cheap Samsung RAM, the GPU is strong enough to handle the video and audio needs, but PCI 3.0 16X slot is a direct link to the CPU. By using a PCI-e 1X Soundcared connector, you bypass the SM Bus which actually is pretty darn good already, but imagine the realtime reponse that would bring to Native Apps.
Hell I might even rethink my 13 year old DSP rig if this turns out to be a killer 1U.

Personally I'd be more excited about Apple buying Redmatica and having that w/ the EXS24 than this expensive slower hardware.


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## Maestro77 (Jun 7, 2012)

Chimuelo, you just blew a fuse in my brain with that rant.

Happy about the new Mac Pro. Waiting to upgrade from my 2007 original finally pays off. Also really looking forward to Logic X.


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## José Herring (Jun 7, 2012)

Maestro77 @ Thu Jun 07 said:


> Chimuelo, you just blew a fuse in my brain with that rant.
> 
> Happy about the new Mac Pro. Waiting to upgrade from my 2007 original finally pays off. Also really looking forward to Logic X.



I translate for Chim.

The specs posted on the new Mac Pro's are less than spectacular compared to what you're getting with a PC these days. The New Mac Pro's are already dinosaurs before they even hit the shelves. Also, most of the clock speeds on the E5 Xeon chips are dog slow. So, if you run a lot of plugins like we do, you'll actually probably see a hit on what you can currently do.

Truly these new Mac Pro's were intended to be servers.

If you have an older mac pro, there's no need to worry about updating, unless you absolutely have to have an SSD drive or Thunderbolt. In other words you're going to be paying a whole heck of a lot of money just to get those two things.

These specs are disappointing.

José


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## Maestro77 (Jun 7, 2012)

Thanks Jose. That's interesting indeed. I would imagine, though, that they're still going to be much faster than my 2007 model. I would totally switch to PC if I didn't own so many Mac only products, not to mention Logic is my primary DAW. I'm afraid they've got me.


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## José Herring (Jun 7, 2012)

I'm just really disappointed that Apple is hardly paying any attention to their high end market these days. 

Your 2007 model may be due for a CPU upgrade. If you do that, then you'll probably out perform these newer guys.

Don't give up on your machine yet. That model was the Golden age of Mac pros and for a few hundred in upgrades would probably last another 5 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYvlojzqjS8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYvlojzq ... re=related)


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## Maestro77 (Jun 7, 2012)

I've actually pondered that before but I must admit changing my processor is very intimidating, even after watching that video (thanks for the link, btw). Thermal paste?? Scary! That said, I think you're onto something and it's probably a good option. I've researched where to buy CPU upgrades for my model and they're extremely hard to find these days. Do you know where I might look?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 7, 2012)

My official opinion:

I DON'T CARE.

The days when you needed a new machine every couple of years to keep up with the software are over.

And I find that to be the most likely reason Apple hasn't come out with new Mac Pros for a long time.


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## José Herring (Jun 7, 2012)

Maestro77 @ Thu Jun 07 said:


> I've actually pondered that before but I must admit changing my processor is very intimidating, even after watching that video (thanks for the link, btw). Thermal paste?? Scary! That said, I think you're onto something and it's probably a good option. I've researched where to buy CPU upgrades for my model and they're extremely hard to find these days. Do you know where I might look?



I think you would need two of these:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EEUGOS/ref=asc_df_B004EEUGOS2045366?smid=AKYWT0D99DOE5&tag=nextagusmp0359538-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B004EEUGOS (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EEUGOS/ref ... B004EEUGOS)

But research it thoroughly. You may want to go to your mac dealer and see if they can do the upgrade for you and if this is the right chip. Mac chips are slightly different than the regular PC Xeon chips.

best,

Jose


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## José Herring (Jun 7, 2012)

Here's a blog with a few people that have successfully upgraded:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/27 ... 0&tstart=0


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## Mike Marino (Jun 7, 2012)

A little older news, but possibly some other options for folks:

Apple's Ivy Bridge-powered iMacs rumored to debut in June

By Katie Marsal

Published: 04:16 PM EST (01:16 PM PST)


Another rumor has pointed toward a June launch for Apple's updated all-in-one desktop, the iMac, featuring Intel's latest Ivy Bridge processors.

Original design manufacturer Quanta Computer and chassis supplier Foxconn Technology are expected to be key suppliers for the new iMacs, according to the Chinese-language Economic Daily News, via DigiTimes. The report issued Friday cited sources in Apple's upstream supply chain.

The latest report comes on the heels of a separate rumor issued Wednesday that also claimed Apple is planning to release new Ivy Bridge-powered iMacs in the coming months. That report claimed the new desktops would arrive in June or July, while Friday's latest support singled out June as the month for them to launch.

Both reports said that the new iMacs would feature Intel's Core i5 and Core i7 processors, based on the new Ivy Bridge architecture. Those chips are expected to launch later this month on April 29.

Friday's report also reiterated its previous claim that the next iMac will be thinner and feature anti-reflective glass displays. That would be a first for Apple, which has previously only offered anti-glare purchase options on its MacBook line of notebooks.

The iMac lineup was last updated in May of 2011, when Apple added high-definition FaceTime cameras as well as high-speed Thunderbolt ports. The current iMacs are powered by Intel's Sandy Bridge processors and AMD Radeon HD graphics.

Finally, DigiTimes also said that Apple is set to launch new MacBook Pro notebooks, which will also feature Ivy Bridge processors, at the end of the second quarter of calendar 2012, which concludes at the end of June.

Here's the link: http://www.appleinsider.com/article...e_powered_imacs_rumored_to_debut_in_june.html


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 7, 2012)

No Rosetta.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 7, 2012)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Jun 07 said:


> No Rosetta.



Anyone still using PPC software?

Anyway, Rosetta is not tied to specific hardware, it's a software solution. So if the new Macs run Leopard (possibly Snow Leopard too, can't remember), they will support Rosetta. And I can't imagine that any new Macs won't be able to run Snow Leopard at the very least.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 7, 2012)

I'm still using a whole lot of it. Not music software, but everything else. It would cost a ridiculous amount of money to update everything.

My guess is that new Mac Pros (assuming the rumors are true) will come with Lion like all the others have been doing for a while already, and usually the current Macs won't run previous OS X versions. Never mind iCloud, that's especially likely to be the case if they have Thunderbolt, USB 3, faster PCI, better wider deeper harder SSD support...you get the idea.


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## Mossad (Jun 11, 2012)

Maestro77 @ Thu Jun 07 said:


> I've actually pondered that before but I must admit changing my processor is very intimidating, even after watching that video (thanks for the link, btw). Thermal paste?? Scary! That said, I think you're onto something and it's probably a good option. I've researched where to buy CPU upgrades for my model and they're extremely hard to find these days. Do you know where I might look?



As someone who just upgraded their processors in their old Mac Pro 1,1 last week, I can tell you the most difficult thing BY FAR about the procedure was finding a Torx T-15 screwdriver that was long enough to get the heat sinks out. Everything else was, honestly, quite easy.


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## jleckie (Jun 11, 2012)

Did not know Apple was planning on phasing 17" Mac book pro out.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/350811/ ... s-wwdc.htm


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## gsilbers (Jun 11, 2012)

kinda sucks were apple has been going for a while. im a big apple fan but the icloud debacle just pissed me off. 

there is progress and then there is real progress. 

real progress is anywere between windows updates and apple updates. somewhere in the middle there is stability. 


as for the new mac pros.. even the most knowledable PC guy will just make blanket statements about mac being just more expensive than the same model in pc version. 

this statement is half true. 


the quad core mac pro 2010 in pc counterpart cost about the same. the 8 core cost about 30% more than the pc counterpart. 

also take into account that mac parts are custom and mostly higher end than a pc counterpart. plus the software and hardware stability is hard to get with windows out fo the box. so for most folks who dont give a rats ass about cmoputers and just want to work mac is just amazing. 

with that said... its hard to "get to work" when apple is updating major OSX every year. not a problem for the office guy who used office andf email. but sucks for us.


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## Simplesly (Jun 11, 2012)

WWDC keynote is over, no Mac pros announced....maybe a silent update?


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## utopia (Jun 11, 2012)

ok....apple site up and NO NEW MAC PRO???


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## midphase (Jun 11, 2012)

Hate to say it...but the writing might be on the wall. If there is no Mac Pro announcement at all this week, I think it'll be pretty safe to say that the product is an EOL. If the announcement is extremely quiet, and if it's a fairly ho hum refresh, I would take that to mean that Apple will no longer be putting resources into it.

IMHO...good riddance!


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## Simplesly (Jun 11, 2012)

Yup - silent update, check the site...


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## chimuelo (Jun 11, 2012)

Fine by me, I'd drop Reaper and Scope's STS5000 Sampler in a heartbeat for the old EMagic fellows to come back home to PC.
I used Logic Silver years ago as I didn't need lots of editing or even the instruments, but Logic IMHO is the best host around, and EXS is a monster sampler.

I'd love Logic as a host with Scope DSP for mastering.
Live, I am sure it's a pleasure to use.
Saw a guy with Charlie Daniels recently ( R.I.P. Taz DiGregorrio ) who used a Mac tower and a CME contoller. Just B3 and Piano stuff mostly, but it sounded great and was so portable I was envious.
I need to get back into the Joe Bob stuff, as these racks of synths are becoming a major hassle. :(


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## Simplesly (Jun 11, 2012)

Specs don't appear to be updated yet though....

Edit: yes they have, though not by much looks like slightly higher clocked westmeres and no thunderbolt. Way to go.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 11, 2012)

It still says USB 2 - no thunderbolt, no nothing. I don't think they updated them. Maybe just a small CPU update. This means either that they are coming out with a redesigned next year or that they are just killing it off.... :evil:


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## Simplesly (Jun 11, 2012)

It does appear that you can get a 12 core for less than before?


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 11, 2012)

I think it's dead. Really. Their "Pro" machine now comes without USB3, Thunderbolt and 6gbps SATA. They are letting it die. The lowered the price quite a bit - they are squeezing the last life out of it.


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## utopia (Jun 11, 2012)

ok...is this a joke? no thunderbolt and usb3 in their most expensive computer? Glad I bought a pc with 3930 for a slave instead of waiting for a mac pro update..


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## midphase (Jun 11, 2012)

Yup...

On the other hand, I think we should all make some effort to wrap our heads around the fact that a laptop can and will be a good DAW computer. Sure it'll be connected to an external monitor and use USB3 connected external drives for samples and storage, but think how cool it is that you can now quite literally carry your entire studio with you with no compromises!


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## Mike Marino (Jun 11, 2012)

And they've removed the 8-core from the site as well.....


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm trying really hard to get excited about Retina displays. So far I haven't had any luck, but I'm sure that'll change if I keep up the discipline.


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## muziksculp (Jun 11, 2012)

Simon Ravn @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> I think it's dead. Really. Their "Pro" machine now comes without USB3, Thunderbolt and 6gbps SATA. They are letting it die. The lowered the price quite a bit - they are squeezing the last life out of it.



I totally agree. I feel they are slowly putting their Mac Pro line to sleep. 

I was going to pull the trigger on a new Mac Pro, but after checking the specs, I feel that a Mac Book Pro is a far more solid investment into Apple's line of products, and has the big advantage of mobility when you need it. 

On the other hand, the new generation Server-Class PCs, with TBolt, USB3 look more in tune with the times, and would probably cost less than a new gen. Mac Pro. More PC Server-Class computers will begin surfacing on the market, that's most likely my better choice if I need another monster machine. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## germancomponist (Jun 11, 2012)

They earn much more money with their i-pads, i-phones e.t.c. . 

And we all know that all big companies are at first looking to make the most money with the least expenditure.

A wide field! Isn`t it?


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## jleckie (Jun 11, 2012)

Yes I figured this weekend the Mac Pro was dead. I wondered into an Apple store and there was NO Mac Pro ANYWHERE to be found inside. 

Table after table of IPads and lap tops though. 

Oh-yes plenty of iMacs too.

Too bad.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 11, 2012)

I think one telling question will be whether Mac Pros return to the Apple Store. They could just have removed the old models while they update.

To me the most interesting thing is their new maps program. Hopefully there'll be a jailbreak for iOS 6 so I can install it without giving up my tethering program, which I'd never dream of using because it's illegal and I don't dream of doing things that are illegal.

And the new MacBook Air looks good. My daughter needs a new laptop to take to college. 1.8GHz dual-core i5, 7-hour battery life, 128GB flash storage, 8GB RAM for an extra $90 over the stock 4GB (which itself is okay), only 3 pounds...that's hard to beat.


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## mushanga (Jun 11, 2012)

I think the OP should re-title the name of this thread...."new" mac pro my a$$


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## Daryl (Jun 11, 2012)

I think that it just goes to prove that Apple believes most people don't need a Mac Pro, and most of those who do, don't need any more power than they already have.

D


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## Tatu (Jun 11, 2012)

orchestranova @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> I think the OP should re-title the name of this thread...."new" mac pro my a$$



:lol: 
Oh well..


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## mushanga (Jun 11, 2012)

Daryl @ Mon 11 Jun said:


> I think that it just goes to prove that Apple believes most people don't need a Mac Pro, and most of those who do, don't need any more power than they already have.
> 
> D



So you're saying that their belief is right? Or that they are deluded?!


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## Mike Marino (Jun 11, 2012)

I guess we'll reconvene again in 6 months and either host the funeral or throw a party.


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## jleckie (Jun 11, 2012)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> I think one telling question will be whether Mac Pros return to the Apple Store. They could just have removed the old models while they update.
> 
> 
> > See. It's pondering like that that keeps rumors alive.


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## Daryl (Jun 11, 2012)

orchestranova @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> Daryl @ Mon 11 Jun said:
> 
> 
> > I think that it just goes to prove that Apple believes most people don't need a Mac Pro, and most of those who do, don't need any more power than they already have.
> ...


I think that they are almost certainly right, and there is no profit to be made in further development of the Mac Pro for them.

D


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## Theseus (Jun 11, 2012)

A POSITIVE NOTE

My guess is that Apple simply hinted at the thousand users that have been complaining about the lack of update and worried they would kill it off.

Seriously, there's no way they would actually make such minor update if they were planning to stop production of high end Mac Pros.

The problem isn't Apple so far, but Intel, whose timeline to release decent motherboards to go along the Xeon processors is super shabby.

Seriously, again, check Intel's website : they don't have yet motherboards for Xeons that support thunderbolt.

So, here's the deal : Apple is waiting for Ivy Bridge Xeon processors and motherboards so they can make a real quantum leap upgrade with USB 3, PCI 3 and of course Thunderbolt. All of this might happen later this year or next year. And meanwhile, Apple just wanted users to know Mac Pros are still going to be around. Clearly they underestimated the griefs and the expectations people had about this particular update, but I'm pretty sure all this is going to be forgotten once we see the new killer design and horsepower they'll come up with.

Only time will tell. But I'm pretty confident


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## Mike Marino (Jun 11, 2012)

+1


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## Daryl (Jun 11, 2012)

Theseus @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> A POSITIVE NOTE
> 
> My guess is that Apple simply hinted at the thousand users that have been complaining about the lack of update and worried they would kill it off.
> 
> ...


Most of the things you mention have already been released. PC builders like ADK are already offering dual Xeon Octacore computers. I'm afraid that Mac Pros are just falling further behind.

D


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## synergy543 (Jun 11, 2012)

Unfortunately the corporate buffoons seem to have taken over - with only quarterly re$ult$ in sight. :( I guess the new "think different" campaigns might be:

"No one needs more than an iPad and 640k of RAM".

"Customers don't create stuff - they consume!"

"Couch Potatoes want iTV, not iMacs"

I wonder what would Steve say? Now more than ever, we really need a Mac "for the rest of us".


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## artinro (Jun 11, 2012)

Theseus @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> A POSITIVE NOTE
> 
> My guess is that Apple simply hinted at the thousand users that have been complaining about the lack of update and worried they would kill it off.
> 
> ...



I know what you're saying and you may, indeed, be correct. The problem is that by the time Apple do release a substantial upgrade, it may be too late. Many pro studios are already in the process of making the switch to PC and many more will do so after today's announcement (or lack thereof). Daryl is correct, you can purchase a windows machine now which covers many of the points this latest mac pro missed. For folks who love working on a mac workstation, it's a frustrating day.


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## stonzthro (Jun 11, 2012)

This is a bit of a bummer for sure - I love Logic, but not that much. Maybe it is time to start looking to Cubase... 

and maybe this is why DP is being developed for PC...

Dang, the sky really IS falling.


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## charlieclouser (Jun 11, 2012)

I think Apple won't "re-invent" the Mac Pro until it can be an absolutely smoking machine that destroys the competition - which isn't really practical at the moment. Thunderbolt on copper-wire doesn't really leapfrog the competition, as we are starting to see PC mobos with copper-wire TB on them. Optical TB might provide the speeds needed to shut up all the Red Camera guys shooting 4k at 60fps - copper TB is barely enough to achieve lift-off for those guys...

I think the next Mac Pro we see will implement optical TB, PCI 3.0, Apple's in-house flash chips (maybe on the mobo to lessen the load on SATA), etc. Possibly the current power supply and case are at the limits of what is practical in terms of cooling and power for big honkin' Intel chips - maybe that's why the 12-core machines are only available at slightly lower clock speeds than the single 6-core machines? Not that my machine even gets warm though....

Waiting another X months will allow prices and yields on Intel chips and Apple's flash memory to stabilize, and give them the time to perfect a machine that PC makers can't match for a couple of years. If they had just thrown copper TB, SATA3, and USB3 out the door today it wouldn't be a machine that's years ahead of the competition, like the retina MacBook is. This is exactly in line with what Apple's always done - minor speed bumps are all you get until they can engineer a product that will give them a couple of years head start on the rest of the industry. They also like to keep a consistent price point for each line, and maybe they need to wait a while until they can deliver something truly massive at the current price points....

As to the "by the time they do it, it may be too late" argument - heh. When the impatient folks who switch to Cubase on Windows see Logic X on the next Mac Pros, they will shit a brick! Those patents on polyphonic pitch-detection and the purchase of Redmatica mean SOMETHING is up over there....

I'm permanently stuck with Logic, as EXS is the key to everything I do. Kontakt and VEP is just too fiddly and complex for the way I work, and I'm fine with that, as I don't ever have to worry about being tempted to jump ship. If the Mac Pro dies, I'm going into early retirement!

At the end of the day, despite all the talk of the sky falling, I'm not afraid for the future of the Mac Pro.


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## Jack Weaver (Jun 11, 2012)

More grist for the mill:


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12 ... _2013.html

.


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## artinro (Jun 11, 2012)

charlieclouser @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> Waiting another X months will allow prices and yields on Intel chips and Apple's flash memory to stabilize, and give them the time to perfect a machine that PC makers can't match for a couple of years. If they had just thrown copper TB, SATA3, and USB3 out the door today it wouldn't be a machine that's years ahead of the competition, like the retina MacBook is. This is exactly in line with what Apple's always done - minor speed bumps are all you get until they can engineer a product that will give them a couple of years head start on the rest of the industry. They also like to keep a consistent price point for each line, and maybe they need to wait a while until they can deliver something truly massive at the current price points....
> 
> As to the "by the time they do it, it may be too late" argument - heh. When the impatient folks who switch to Cubase on Windows see Logic X on the next Mac Pros, they will [email protected]#t a brick! Those patents on polyphonic pitch-detection and the purchase of Redmatica mean SOMETHING is up over there....



Not sure I agree. I love the Mac Pro, but it has never been "years ahead" of its windows machine counterparts. On par with, yes, but not ahead. Of course I'm talking about purely technical specifications. The OSX Vs. Windows debate is a separate issue. As for your optimism regarding Logic X, I'm afraid the FCX debacle has made me skeptical. Having said that, I hope you are correct on all accounts.


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## gsilbers (Jun 11, 2012)

artinro @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> charlieclouser @ Mon Jun 11 said:
> 
> 
> > Waiting another X months will allow prices and yields on Intel chips and Apple's flash memory to stabilize, and give them the time to perfect a machine that PC makers can't match for a couple of years. If they had just thrown copper TB, SATA3, and USB3 out the door today it wouldn't be a machine that's years ahead of the competition, like the retina MacBook is. This is exactly in line with what Apple's always done - minor speed bumps are all you get until they can engineer a product that will give them a couple of years head start on the rest of the industry. They also like to keep a consistent price point for each line, and maybe they need to wait a while until they can deliver something truly massive at the current price points....
> ...



i agree 

apple bases its products on established new technologies and builds upon that to make it reachable to the consumer. 



but new mac pros with no thunderbolt?!?!!?

i still not sure what changed on the new models. the chip is still xeon right?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 11, 2012)

I've said it again and I'll repeat it before: the next generation of tower computers will not be towers. Or at least the generation after that.

If we can send men to the moon, Apple can design a better way to cool off processors and memory and house storage.


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## utopia (Jun 11, 2012)

Apparently someone wrote an email to Tim Cook asking about the future of macpro and got an answer. Guess there's some hope then. Here's the article - http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/11/dav ... y-in-2013/


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 12, 2012)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Jun 12 said:


> I've said it again and I'll repeat it before: the next generation of tower computers will not be towers. Or at least the generation after that.
> 
> If we can send men to the moon, Apple can design a better way to cool off processors and memory and house storage.



I don't care if they call them towers or whatever... the fact is that the current Mac Pro is the only solution (OS X) which suits me at the moment. With an iMac, I don't get the power, I don't get the expandability etc - same for the Macbooks - no way am I gonna work on a laptop with that keyboard and trackpad + a small display. And how am I gonna get all the drives + DSP audio + video out working with that? I don't care if it might be possible through some weird, crazy setup with daisy-chaining a ton of Thunderbolt - and even with that, one Thunderbolt controller won't give you as much throughput as PCIe 2.0 (or 3.0) - especially if you also use your Thunderbolt for displays - this will severely limit your bandwidth for audio, DSP, drives and so on.

This is my current Mac Pro setup:

- Mac Pro 6-core.
- 24 GB RAM.
- 3 256GB SSD's.
- 2 regular HD's.
- 27" + 24" displays.
- UAD-2 for DSP plugins.
- MOTU PCI-424 with two 2408's connected.
- Blackmagic Intensity for video output.
- A proper keyboard and mouse, thank you!
- Gigabit network for Vienna Ensemble Pro use mainly.

So anyone believing or trying to tell me that I can do what I am doing now on a Macbook Pro - no I can't. And I am certainly not alone, I am sure. There are plenty of people working with audio and video in particular that NEEDS this kind of stationary setup. Photographers and image artists might not, although they will probably want a bigger, external display, which is no problem on a laptop.

In the future, with lightpipe Thunderbult and more vendors coming out with actual Thunderbolt solutions for audio and video it might be possibly, but certainly not in the foreseeable future. 

So I will hang on to my current Mac Pro - at least Apple just saved me $4000. And then I'll have to see in a year or two what I do to upgrade my system. If a new Mac Pro (in some form) appears, great, that might be the solution, if not, I'll have to give up and turn to Windows, unfortunately.


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## Daryl (Jun 12, 2012)

Simon Ravn @ Tue Jun 12 said:


> If a new Mac Pro (in some form) appears, great, that might be the solution, if not, I'll have to give up and turn to Windows, unfortunately.


Not necessarily. I think that if the Mac Pros disappear, we will see many more PC builders offering Hackintoshes. Obviously there will be a small element of risk, because Apple tends to break things with every OS update, and with a 3rd party machine it could become a problem. However, if your machine is just for studio use, there will be no reason to upgrade every time another animal or point animal is released, so you would still be able to get a very powerful machine.

The only slight fly in the ointment might be that if Apple doesn't have any 16 core (or more) machines. It is unlikely that Logic will be updated to run on such machines, meaning that the power of the machine would not be utilised properly. Hopefully VE Pro would be able to take up the slack in those cases.

I also think that people waiting for a super Mac Pro to arrive are living in cloud cuckoo land. Macs have not been faster than generic PCs for years, and have usually lagged behind. Unless Apple switches to non-generic hardware (other than just using hardware to try to stop people installing OSX onto non-Apple machines) it is unlikely that a new improved Mac Pro will ever be faster than a Windows based machine. Of course that doesn't matter, as long as you don't need the extra power, and here we come full circle.

D


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 12, 2012)

Daryl @ Tue Jun 12 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Tue Jun 12 said:
> 
> 
> > If a new Mac Pro (in some form) appears, great, that might be the solution, if not, I'll have to give up and turn to Windows, unfortunately.
> ...



You are forgetting one thing. If Apple stops supporting new chip sets + CPU's, I assume those will not just work in a Hackintosh...Someone have to do the drivers and support, and if it's not present in OS X, who will?



> I also think that people waiting for a super Mac Pro to arrive are living in cloud cuckoo land. Macs have not been faster than generic PCs for years, and have usually lagged behind.
> 
> D



I don't think any pro user thinks that their Macs are faster than PC's. They use Macs because of the OS, "feel", clever hardware design and such, I presume. Raw CPU speed would not be the main reason for me to get a new Mac Pro - SATA3, Thunderbolt, USB3 and PCI 3.0 would mean a lot more to me.


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## Daryl (Jun 12, 2012)

Simon Ravn @ Tue Jun 12 said:


> You are forgetting one thing. If Apple stops supporting new chip sets + CPU's, I assume those will not just work in a Hackintosh...Someone have to do the drivers and support, and if it's not present in OS X, who will?


True, but I think that is a discussion more for the future. If Apple stops fully supporting Intels products at OS level, then that would be the time to get out and switch to Windows, IMO.

D


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 12, 2012)

stonzthro @ Mon Jun 11 said:


> This is a bit of a bummer for sure - I love Logic, but not that much. Maybe it is time to start looking to Cubase...
> 
> and maybe this is why DP is being developed for PC...
> 
> Dang, the sky really IS falling.



Oh,, for crying out loud. As I said in my column:http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=8886

This may be a big deal for video guys but for 95% of music creators when you eventually have Mac Minis and/or iMacs and/or MacBook Pros with really fast powerful chips, the ability to put a lot of RAM into each, Thunderbolt connectivity for everything that is as good or better than pci-e, etc. then you will actually have a more powerful and more flexible, probably less expensive, Mac setup.

Hooked up to a PC slave of course. :D


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## gsilbers (Jun 12, 2012)

yep. your right. 

the new mac minis are more powerful than my 2010 quad core mac pro 2.66 with 16gb of ram. 

and i can run a lot of things on my mac pro. 

i dont have any cards inside. 

now of course the issues is dealing with all the peripherals... 
audio cards, hard drives, usb connected devices like kore2 , midi controllers, virus ti etc
i have 4 HD internal. having that on a mac mini is a bit of a pita.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 12, 2012)

Simon, I'm not telling you to use a laptop or an iMac.

I'm saying that the odds of Apple never coming out with another high-end machine that's more powerful than what we're using today are very small.

My comment is in response to all the talk about Apple abandoning the high end because they make more money with other products. I just don't see that as being likely at all.

And by the way I tend to believe what David Pogue writes and what Tim Cook is purported to have written in that email. Tim Cook can't kill off Mac Pro sales by saying they're coming out with a new one tomorrow, but he can say they're working on something for later next year.


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## midphase (Jun 12, 2012)

This is mildly amusing:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/12/app ... -that-new/


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## Jack Weaver (Jun 12, 2012)

Apparently this guy is also plenty upset about the lack of Thunderbolt in the Mac Pro update too!

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/06/12/apple_inc_and_the_lack_of_creativity_at_the_highest_levels_of_our_government

Maybe Nick B can get together with him and commiserate over a brew. o-[][]-o 

.


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## midphase (Jun 12, 2012)

How soon before we start seeing those "Hitler responds to Mac Pro update..." videos on YouTube?


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## Mike Marino (Jun 12, 2012)

hahahahaha......3-6 weeks


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## Marius Masalar (Jun 12, 2012)

Good news, guys:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/11/30795 ... esign-2013

Redesigns for Mac Pro & iMac coming next year, officially confirmed by Apple and even unofficially by Tim Cook. That's as good as we're going to get.

Also, they might finally be killing Ping!


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## germancomponist (Jun 12, 2012)

People have an insatiable desire to believe in one thing (Apple). Enthusiasm seems to be more important than logic and rationality. ...


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## Daryl (Jun 13, 2012)

Mathazzar @ Wed Jun 13 said:


> Good news, guys:
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/11/30795 ... esign-2013
> 
> Redesigns for Mac Pro & iMac coming next year, officially confirmed by Apple and even unofficially by Tim Cook. That's as good as we're going to get.


Actually that's not quite what he said. He said "something really great", and everyone assumed it was a new Mac Pro. Let's look at what that actually means:

Currently the top end computers (not Macs) have 16 cores (32 inc. Hyperthreading), Thunderbolt, USB 3 and many other things. In order to be "really great" Apple would have to top that by a fair margin. I don't see that happening. I think that Nick is right, in that the new exciting stuff will not be a traditional Mac Pro, but more probably a way of working to harness the power of multiple machines. Don't forget that the timescale that Tim Cook is alluding to may also see the next version of the OS after Mountain Lion as well, so it may be part and parcel off the same thing.

I think all Mac users would be wise just to get on with what's available now, buy new machines when they need them and stop worrying about what may or may not happen. All this hanging around waiting for refreshes (what stupid terminology) is a waste of energy. :wink: 

D


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## synapse21 (Jun 13, 2012)

I am so glad I built my i7 PC tower over the New Year's break with quality components. I contemplated waiting on the new Mac Pro tower back then and am now glad that I didn't. 

If I were using Pro Tools at home, I still would have went for the Mac, but since I am using Nuendo, it's another story. I have zero problems with stability or performance with this setup, and aside form the occasional PLAY crash within VE Pro, it is an absolutely solid system for sound design and music composition. 

I think the folks that use Macs nowadays might be rethinking their approach in the future for their main machine as PCs are easily eclipsing the Mac Pro 's capabilities. Many are already running slave PCs for their libraries anyway; nothing going wrong with Win 7 x64 here. 

- Rodney


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## Marius Masalar (Jun 13, 2012)

That's true enough.

Despite the anemic refresh, the new Macbook Pro actually inspires some confidence in me about what the Mac Pro equivalent might look like — Apple really hit it out of the park with the new Macbook line as far as I'm concerned.

I'm still rocking a 2008 8-core and it's holding up just fine, so I'm not in a huge hurry to upgrade, I just love technology


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 13, 2012)

> Maybe Nick B can get together with him and commiserate over a brew.



I'd be too nauseated to commiserate, Jack. Even his personality smells really bad. 

Meanwhile, why doesn't he just stick an eSATA card in his Mac Pro and STFU! What a slut.


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## midphase (Jun 13, 2012)

I have to wonder if there is room for a Mac Mini Pro? Something slightly larger, with perhaps room for 2 internal full size drives (or 4 laptop size ones), possibly 1 PCIe card slot, and able to access 32gigs of RAM or more?

I could see such a product taking the place of the Mac Pro, priced from the $1299 range up to maybe $2199 depending on the configuration. I picture it about half or a third the size of the current Mac Pro, except with an exterior more reminiscent of the Mac Mini.

TB, USB3 and HDMI would take care of most of the other connection needs.

I honestly feel that this type of product would make a lot of sense, and possibly allow more people to access a faster more powerful and expandable machine.

Meanwhile, I remain pretty confident that my next full blown main DAW machine will be a Mac Mini.


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## gsilbers (Jun 13, 2012)

id dig it.


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## givemenoughrope (Jun 13, 2012)

My next machine will probably be two Mac Minis.


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## mac4d (Jun 13, 2012)

midphase @ Wed Jun 13 said:


> I have to wonder if there is room for a Mac Mini Pro? Something slightly larger, with perhaps room for 2 internal full size drives (or 4 laptop size ones), possibly 1 PCIe card slot, and able to access 32gigs of RAM or more?
> 
> I could see such a product taking the place of the Mac Pro, priced from the $1299 range up to maybe $2199 depending on the configuration. I picture it about half or a third the size of the current Mac Pro, except with an exterior more reminiscent of the Mac Mini.
> 
> ...


People have been talking about wanting a mac between the pro and mini (your mac mini pro) for years now. The general consensus seemed to be that Apple hasn't made one cause it would compete with imacs. Which seems to make sense. I'd buy it instead of a imac.


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## spectrum (Jun 13, 2012)

midphase @ Wed Jun 13 said:


> I have to wonder if there is room for a Mac Mini Pro? Something slightly larger, with perhaps room for 2 internal full size drives (or 4 laptop size ones), possibly 1 PCIe card slot, and able to access 32gigs of RAM or more?
> 
> I could see such a product taking the place of the Mac Pro, priced from the $1299 range up to maybe $2199 depending on the configuration. I picture it about half or a third the size of the current Mac Pro, except with an exterior more reminiscent of the Mac Mini.
> 
> ...


I concur! 

This would be a great way to go for the future, especially if they can design the expandability (more raw processing power/multiple threads) into the system. =o


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## sbkp (Jun 13, 2012)

I concur, as well. I thought this was cool at the time, and it would be even cooler now!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4_Cube

:D


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## gsilbers (Jun 13, 2012)

History and salesApple targeted the Cube at the market between the iMac G3 and the Power Mac G4, and was the first desktop configuration offering since the discontinued Power Macintosh G3 almost two years earlier. Despite its innovative design, critics complained that it was too expensive[citation needed]. It was initially priced US$200 higher than the comparably-equipped and more-expandable base Power Mac G4 of the time (450 MHz CPU, 64 MB RAM, 20 GB hard drive) and did not include a monitor, thus leading to slow sales[citation needed]. Additionally, early Cubes suffered from a manufacturing issue that led to faint lines (referred to as "cracks" or "mold lines") in the clear plastic case. This was often considered damaging to the aesthetic quality of the computer.[2]

After seeing low profits, Apple attempted to increase sales by bundling more software with the Cube,[citation needed] lowering the price of the base model, incorporating a CD-RW drive standard for the 500 MHz version, and offering an improved Nvidia graphics card as an option. These efforts could not offset the earlier perception[citation needed] of reduced value compared to the iMac and Power Mac G4 lineup. In July 2001 Apple issued a short and slightly unusual press release announcing the product was to be put "on ice".[3]

In 2003, the G4 Cube received a brief return to the spotlight after a series of articles in Wired charted its cult popularity. The articles, focusing on upgrades installed by individual users and retailers such as Kemplar, led to a sharp rise in the Cube's resale value. Nevertheless, with the release of the relatively inexpensive Mac Mini (seen by some[4] as a replacement), coupled with Apple's switch to G5 processors and eventually Intel Core-based processors, the Cube again faded into the background.


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## Daryl (Jun 14, 2012)

spectrum @ Wed Jun 13 said:


> midphase @ Wed Jun 13 said:
> 
> 
> > I have to wonder if there is room for a Mac Mini Pro? Something slightly larger, with perhaps room for 2 internal full size drives (or 4 laptop size ones), possibly 1 PCIe card slot, and able to access 32gigs of RAM or more?
> ...


Being able to add an expansion unit, or units to a core machine in order to give more cores/threads would be a winner, providing that the OS would see them as one machine. It could also help to negate the threading problems that OSX already suffers from, because these expansions would be physically different machines. Couple that with a snug chassis to put them into, and most composers wouldn't notice that they weren't using a Mac Pro, except that performance would be better. :wink: 

D


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## midphase (Jun 23, 2012)

FYI:

Neither Mac Pro models are able to surpass the overall score of the new 2.6GHz Core i7 MacBook Pro with Retina display (). The Retina MacBook Pro is 30 percent faster overall than the new quad-core Mac Pro. The performance from the Retina MacBook Pro’s flash memory crushes the internal hard drive of the Mac Pro; the Retina MacBook Pro completed the file duplication and file unzip test 65 percent faster than the new low-end Mac Pro. The quad core Mac Pro was faster in just three of our tests: iMovie export (16.9 percent), Portal 2 (11.6 percent), and Cinebench’s OpenGL tests (2.5 percent).

The Retina MacBook Pro is also faster overall than the new 12-core Mac Pro, with a 27 percent higher Speedmark 7 score. Again, faster flash memory and faster (though fewer) processing cores helps the Retina laptop best the 12-core Mac Pro in all but our three most processor-intensive tasks: Cinebench CPU, MathematicaMark 8, and Handbrake.


Full Article:

http://www.macworld.com/article/1167386/meet_the_new_mac_pro_about_the_same_as_the_old_mac_pro.html (http://www.macworld.com/article/1167386 ... c_pro.html)


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## chimuelo (Jun 23, 2012)

MacPro should have had a Xeon E5-2600/C602 Chipset from Foxconn.
There's the Haswell CPU and it's Xeon counterparts coming up.
My friend in Cupertino won't talk, but only tells me to wait for Thunderbolt II.
So it's a hint if some in which I don;t understand, but i seems to apply to a MacPro, PC and XITE-1. 
I just need to see the link, sounds l,ike Haswell though.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 23, 2012)

Kays, I posted that link in a different context in another thread.

But it's always important to remember that those benchmark programs have at best an indirect relationship to what we need computers to do. What we care about is how many Omnispheres and heavily scripted Kontakts we can run, etc.


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## passenger57 (Jun 23, 2012)

The solution - Hackintosh!


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