# MuseScore 4 Release Candidate 1 Now Available



## soundofmaw (Dec 4, 2022)

Another step closer to the final release…






MuseScore 4.0 Release Candidate 1


MuseScore 4.0 Release Candidate 1 Windows 64-bit macOS Linux More info Enjoy!




musescore.org


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## mopsiflopsi (Dec 4, 2022)

soundofmaw said:


> Another step closer to the final release…
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not seeing any updates in MuseHub. Is this meant to be installed independently?


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## soundofmaw (Dec 4, 2022)

You have to download the installer and manually install. I'm not sure this RC1 update comes through MuseHub automatically. If you're interested to know what's been fixed and what bugs are still present, see this page...









[MU4.0 RELEASE] · musescore/MuseScore


MuseScore is an open source and free music notation software. For support, contribution, bug reports, visit MuseScore.org. Fork and make pull requests! - [MU4.0 RELEASE] · musescore/MuseScore




github.com


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## dcoscina (Dec 4, 2022)

Downloaded it and loving it. 

**


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## mopsiflopsi (Dec 4, 2022)

Performance is still not great with a large score. Tried importing a music xml file from StaffPad, it seems to have managed after some drama (complained about corrupt file but opened it). The instrument assignments are a mixed bag of muse sounds and MS basic. For some reason it can understand Berlin Woodwinds Clarinet should map to MuseSounds Clarinet, but Berlin flutes are stuck with the basic sound. Hope they make the interoperability smoother between the two apps. 

Edit: To clarify, you can still manually set the flute to the correct sound, but it's a hassle having to do that with many instruments. There's also some confusion about strings where sections get assigned solo instruments, but that might be to blame on StaffPad side, as NotePerformer seems to make the same call in Dorico.


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## Cdnalsi (Dec 4, 2022)

Any news on an universal binary for Apple Silicon?


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## VSTHero (Dec 4, 2022)

Muse hub is a little behind Musescore RC1 on updates/issues before major release but estimated on the discord to just be a few weeks aways for the public release


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## TonyZem (Dec 4, 2022)

Downloaded it too. I've been testing it on one of my orch. arrangements. Wow, what a difference. It is indeed getting better each day! Congrats to MuseScore team.


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## Chi (Dec 5, 2022)

I can't believe they're supporting VSTi now. The lack of VST integration was what drove me to finally buy Dorico lol.


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## Jett Hitt (Dec 5, 2022)

Chi said:


> I can't believe they're supporting VSTi now. The lack of VST integration was what drove me to finally buy Dorico lol.


I think it is going to be a while before it’s useful. As far as I can tell, you can load and play a VST, but there is no way to edit the CC data. Dynamics and hairpins don’t seem to affect anything. It’s probably going to be a while before it’s usable. The prospect sure makes it hard to get excited about Dorico expression maps, though.


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## Chi (Dec 5, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I think it is going to be a while before it’s useful. As far as I can tell, you can load and play a VST, but there is no way to edit the CC data. Dynamics and hairpins don’t seem to affect anything. It’s probably going to be a while before it’s usable. The prospect sure makes it hard to get excited about Dorico expression maps, though.


For sure. Since I own Dorico, I won't conceivably be using Musescore, but it is cool they have it. I'm pretty sure that only libraries with built in dynamic integration, like BBCSO and such, will respond to dynamic input. If they do incorporate CC event editing then Finale will basically die, and Sibelius will also probably suffer. Dorico will actually fare better most likely, since it has a lot of features that its competition does not, such as the built in effects VSTs, the intuitive CC editor, and the easily designed templates. But who's to say.


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## Jett Hitt (Dec 5, 2022)

Chi said:


> For sure. Since I own Dorico, I won't conceivably be using Musescore, but it is cool they have it. I'm pretty sure that only libraries with built in dynamic integration, like BBCSO and such, will respond to dynamic input. If they do incorporate CC event editing then Finale will basically die, and Sibelius will also probably suffer. Dorico will actually fare better most likely, since it has a lot of features that its competition does not, such as the built in effects VSTs, the intuitive CC editor, and the easily designed templates. But who's to say.


Finale still has a bit of a stranglehold on the publishing world. Apparently, there are lots of publishers who only accept Finale files, or so I am told. But that industry is dying, too. Apart from this, Finale is gasping for its last breaths. I think that the best hope they (and Sibelius) have is that Noteperformer 4 hits it out of the park. If it can produce playback as good as Musescore, both Finale and Sibelius will be granted some repreive. In the meantime, I don't think even Musescore can compete with StaffPad's playback--not yet anyway.


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## Chi (Dec 5, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Finale still has a bit of a stranglehold on the publishing world. Apparently, there are lots of publishers who only accept Finale files, or so I am told. But that industry is dying, too. Apart from this, Finale is gasping for its last breaths. I think that the best hope they (and Sibelius) have is that Noteperformer 4 hits it out of the park. If it can produce playback as good as Musescore, both Finale and Sibelius will be granted some repreive. In the meantime, I don't think even Musescore can compete with StaffPad's playback--not yet anyway.


I’m not saying Musescore will be able to match its competitors’ features: but it will beat their prices. For anyone getting started in notation, they’d pick Musescore over finale easily if they’re on a budget. I know I would.


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## mducharme (Dec 5, 2022)

The problem for using something like MuseScore as a DAW is their data model. Like you find with other notation programs, with the exception of Dorico, the data model in MuseScore is based on bars, and you can't change the number of beats in a bar without everything after that shifting forward or backward. In DAW environments, you can change the number of beats in a bar and everything stays put and sounds as before, just that the bar line appears in a different place than before. It think it would not be easy for MuseScore to change this as it would probably require rewriting a lot of the program. They are more likely to just add some reduced functionality when it comes to piano roll / CC editing and not really allow the same sort of flexibility you can get with something like Dorico or a DAW.


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## Jett Hitt (Dec 5, 2022)

mducharme said:


> The problem for using something like MuseScore as a DAW is their data model. Like you find with other notation programs, with the exception of Dorico, the data model in MuseScore is based on bars, and you can't change the number of beats in a bar without everything after that shifting forward or backward. In DAW environments, you can change the number of beats in a bar and everything stays put and sounds as before, just that the bar line appears in a different place than before. It think it would not be easy for MuseScore to change this as it would probably require rewriting a lot of the program. They are more likely to just add some reduced functionality when it comes to piano roll / CC editing and not really allow the same sort of flexibility you can get with something like Dorico or a DAW.


Interesting. I have seen this problem before. However, StaffPad does not have this problem, so you have to wonder if they addressed this at the outset.


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## Chi (Dec 5, 2022)

mducharme said:


> The problem for using something like MuseScore as a DAW is their data model. Like you find with other notation programs, with the exception of Dorico, the data model in MuseScore is based on bars, and you can't change the number of beats in a bar without everything after that shifting forward or backward. In DAW environments, you can change the number of beats in a bar and everything stays put and sounds as before, just that the bar line appears in a different place than before. It think it would not be easy for MuseScore to change this as it would probably require rewriting a lot of the program. They are more likely to just add some reduced functionality when it comes to piano roll / CC editing and not really allow the same sort of flexibility you can get with something like Dorico or a DAW.


I hate piano roll: and adding a time signature to the bar after the one you want to change mitigates the problem. For 4/4, just add an extraneous 4/4 time sign before adding the new time sign right before it


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## mducharme (Dec 5, 2022)

I can't really comment on StaffPad as I have never used it and so I don't really know what it can or can't do.

The issue fundamentally is that a piano roll is a different representation of the music than the actual notation. Notation is prescriptive in that it is telling the performers how to play a work, and the piano roll is descriptive in that it gives details of an interpretation of the piece that normally would be left up to performers. If the notation is your master and the piano roll is the "slave", you start to run into issues like, if you make a note longer or shorter in the piano roll, what should the notation do? Dorico solved this problem by basically making the MIDI piano roll the master and having the notation as more or less a dynamically generated offshoot of the piano roll. Adding notes to the piano roll or making them longer doesn't cause a big issue here as Dorico already stores notes this way and it knows based on a musical ruleset how it should render these notes. MuseScore works the other way, with the engraved notation as the master, and so there is no good way for it to know what to do when a note in the piano roll is lengthened or shortened or deleted or added. They would have to add a lot of functionality to get there. More likely, their "piano roll" will only show the notes, not allow editing or adding, and would only be used to show where the notes are to allow adding CC lanes.


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## mducharme (Dec 5, 2022)

Chi said:


> I hate piano roll: and adding a time signature to the bar after the one you want to change mitigates the problem. For 4/4, just add an extraneous 4/4 time sign before adding the new time sign right before it


I'm not sure I understand what you mean really. Can you give an example?

As an example of what I mean, suppose you are scoring a film and have a bar of 4/4 that fits the initial edit perfectly. Then maybe there are a few changes and you find that you need to lengthen the bar, so you increase it to a bar of 5/4. Then maybe the same thing happens again and you don't want to have to make major changes and so you go to 6/4 even though the beat pattern isn't really what you want. Then it happens again, and 7/4 is not really readable, so instead of a 7/4 bar you want a bar of 4/4 followed by a bar of 3/4. Now you have to make all sorts of edits and slices to move notes and dynamics and other symbols from the last two quarters of the old 6/4 bar to the first two beats of the 3/4 bar, effectively doing a bunch of editing just to get it to sound the same as it did before. Once the last two beats of the old 6/4 bar are vacated of notes and other markings, then you can shorten the 6/4 to 4/4, and worry about adding ties to the following bar where necessary. Then you can re-add any hairpins etc that you had to delete to re-engrave that portion. After 15 minutes of work, you finally get it sounding like it did before, but across two bars instead of one.

Now, compare the workflow in a DAW. Going to 5/4 is something you still might do if you just need one more beat, but instead of going up to 6/4, you can simply take two seconds to make the first bar 4/4 and the second bar 2/4 and everything is fine. You don't need to move notes and markings around, just change the time signatures. You can change all of these time signatures without the hit points changing and without the score coming out of sync with the picture. This is something that DAWs can do and Dorico can do and most notation programs cannot, because notation programs deal with measures as containers that notes go into, rather than notes sitting on a timeline. When measures act as containers for notes, you can't do operations like shrink or expand the measure and have the notes all sound as they did before. Flexibility for edits is a big thing when you are scoring to picture.


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## fakemaxwell (Dec 5, 2022)

Yeah, in the Musescore docs or support? I remember reading that the fastest way to adjust a bar is sometimes to just rewrite the whole thing. Coming from a DAW first, that feels like madness.

Interesting that Dorico works more like a DAW. Reaper also has a decent notation system built in but it's not an engraver in any way. You can see the noteheads + the piano roll on top of each other. Haven't done a dive but it could be a fun system.


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## Chi (Dec 5, 2022)

mducharme said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you mean really. Can you give an example?
> 
> As an example of what I mean, suppose you are scoring a film and have a bar of 4/4 that fits the initial edit perfectly. Then maybe there are a few changes and you find that you need to lengthen the bar, so you increase it to a bar of 5/4. Then maybe the same thing happens again and you don't want to have to make major changes and so you go to 6/4 even though the beat pattern isn't really what you want. Then it happens again, and 7/4 is not really readable, so instead of a 7/4 bar you want a bar of 4/4 followed by a bar of 3/4. Now you have to make all sorts of edits and slices to move notes and dynamics and other symbols from the last two quarters of the old 6/4 bar to the first two beats of the 3/4 bar, effectively doing a bunch of editing just to get it to sound the same as it did before. Once the last two beats of the old 6/4 bar are vacated of notes and other markings, then you can shorten the 6/4 to 4/4, and worry about adding ties to the following bar where necessary. Then you can re-add any hairpins etc that you had to delete to re-engrave that portion. After 15 minutes of work, you finally get it sounding like it did before, but across two bars instead of one.
> 
> Now, compare the workflow in a DAW. Going to 5/4 is something you still might do if you just need one more beat, but instead of going up to 6/4, you can simply take two seconds to make the first bar 4/4 and the second bar 2/4 and everything is fine. You don't need to move notes and markings around, just change the time signatures. You can change all of these time signatures without the hit points changing and without the score coming out of sync with the picture. This is something that DAWs can do and Dorico can do and most notation programs cannot, because notation programs deal with measures as containers that notes go into, rather than notes sitting on a timeline. When measures act as containers for notes, you can't do operations like shrink or expand the measure and have the notes all sound as they did before. Flexibility for edits is a big thing when you are scoring to picture.


Basically, this. On measure five, you feel like you want to cut a beat out of your 4/4. So if you add an extraneous 4/4 time sign to measure six, then when you turn measure five into 3/4 the rest of the following measures remain unchanged. Does that make sense in any way shape or fashion?


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## ZenBYD (Dec 6, 2022)

you can do that kind of time sign edit quite easily in staffpad because it doesn't insist on rewriting measures after you change the time signature... and you get the tempo mapping thing that afaik no other notation program has. it will kill when they add picture support.

actually even in sib you can shuffle stuff in time now quite easily through a key command.

but anyway... back to musescore... rc1 seemed to update through the hub for me... along with a bunch of other instrument and effects updates. looks like they're gearing up for release any day now.

there is VST support but it is extremely poor. its ok for some mix effects but without automation or cc data or key mapping of any kind there is limited point.

that said the muse sounds are simply spectacular! sure... not quite as slick as staffpad... but its free which is a big difference. probably worth the sib and dorico guys getting musescore 4 just to use the sounds tbh which I guess was the plan.


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## Chi (Dec 6, 2022)

ZenBYD said:


> you can do that kind of time sign edit quite easily in staffpad because it doesn't insist on rewriting measures after you change the time signature... and you get the tempo mapping thing that afaik no other notation program has. it will kill when they add picture support.
> 
> actually even in sib you can shuffle stuff in time now quite easily through a key command.
> 
> ...


I thought the sounds were alright. They're definitely a huge improvement over the previous sf they were using, and they're better than unedited stock halion sounds.


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## Noeticus (Dec 9, 2022)




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## Noeticus (Dec 14, 2022)

It looks like MuseScore 4 has officially launched today.

🍷 🍷 🍷 🍷 🍷


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## YaniDee (Dec 14, 2022)

Noeticus said:


> It looks like MuseScore 4 has officially launched today.


Does anyone know the difference between downloading with or without Musehub?


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## VSTHero (Dec 14, 2022)

YaniDee said:


> Does anyone know the difference between downloading with or without Musehub?


Nothing except you can only download Musesounds from Musehub. But for Musescore 4 itself you’re good either way.


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## TonyZem (Dec 15, 2022)

Installed it now from Muse Hub, but my Muse Sounds library are not showing up in the mixer sounds option anymore.


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## wcreed51 (Dec 15, 2022)

They show up for me, but had to re-select them in a score


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## TonyZem (Dec 15, 2022)

Wow! Accel..... and Rit..... now do what they were supposed to. What a change. And I just started watching the Musescore 4 announcing video. I'm impressed!


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## TonyZem (Dec 15, 2022)

wcreed51 said:


> They show up for me, but had to re-select them in a score


That's what I thought too, but unlike yours, they are not showing up for me. I wonder if the reason was that I moved the library to another location...


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## VSTHero (Dec 15, 2022)

Definitely issues with moving the folders - I’ve had to keep them in the same spot for it to work but some folks say as long as it’s on internal drive it should still work. Hopefully they’ll get that fixed soon.


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## TonyZem (Dec 15, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> Definitely issues with moving the folders - I’ve had to keep them in the same spot for it to work but some folks say as long as it’s on internal drive it should still work. Hopefully they’ll get that fixed soon.







Muse sounds are inactive in the Playback setup. How do I make it active now?
Update: I moved one sound to the defaut location to no avail.


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## VSTHero (Dec 15, 2022)

Try putting them all back in the correct location, and then try redownloading them through Muse Hub, it should realize the files are there as it tries to and then I think it'll recognize them again. If not, definitely jump on the support section on the discord.


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## Noeticus (Dec 15, 2022)

I say, I say, I say. 

I just spent some time with "MuseScore 4" and I must say it is the balls!!!


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## JimDiGritz (Dec 16, 2022)

Any idea when they plan to fix all the audio issues? Pretty much unusable (am on latest nightly build from Github).

I've tried every setting in I/O and even put the buffer up to 4096...


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## VSTHero (Dec 16, 2022)

They are pretty much constantly working on it. No timelines released, but you can see issue tracking and prioritization on GitHub and follow along with work being done. 4.0 released to increase testing base and Muse Sounds is still in Beta so in some ways the main use purpose right now is to help identify new issues for the dev teams.


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## Noeticus (Dec 16, 2022)




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## Noeticus (Dec 16, 2022)

I am so impressed with MuseScore 4 that I hereby give it a Nobel prize!

And, the fact that it is free is mind bending!


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