# Why so much orchestra talk here?



## Hannes_F (Mar 26, 2009)

Hi,

I am wondering why there is so much interest in orchestral music in this forum (plus some fusion with rock elements for trailer and action music, and some jazz now and then).

I mean, where are the pop and rock music guys? Aren't they using virtual instruments? What about experimental synth stuff? Ethnic/world music, relaxation/meditation music, alternate tuning systems music, dance/trance/house music, RnB, Hip Hop?

I read a production note recently about a Seal recording where they used a quite some samples and synths before bringing in the live guys. And there was a discussion recently at gearslutz where many producers said that they often use sampled drums even if they are drummers, just for the sake of speed. So I guess samples are an everyday reality in most studios. Why is there so little talk about that here?

I would not expect that in a forum that theoretically deals with virtual instruments of all kinds most members dedicate themselves into emulating the most acoustical of acoustical music. I mean, have all your cradles been standing in some orchestra pit or what? :mrgreen:


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## lux (Mar 26, 2009)

i guess mostly because people tend to aggregate themselves on the basis of a common root. I wondered the same many times being myself mostly a pop/rock musician.

Vi-control is definitely not the place to get updated about synths, drums, guitar gear, playboy covers, good food, tattoos and a few more things.

Vi control is though the best place about orchestral samples. Nothing more nothing less.

For the rest, Zebra 2 covers it all :mrgreen: 

~o)


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## synergy543 (Mar 26, 2009)

The forum motto is "Musicians helping musicians". However, I think by default over the years the focus has narrowed down to essentially "Film Composers discussing Orchestral Sampling". Maybe this was due to a mass exodus from the genocide of high-octane sample users over on NS at one point?

Aside from cryptic EIS discussions, I've seen extremely little discussion about composition here. It almost seems anathema to discuss here as there are others forums for this. I guess its like hunters talking about booze and women instead of uzis and bambis.

btw, what's a real guy like you doing on a virtual site anywho? They call you the "smilin assassin" you know? Takin a virtual potshot are ya?


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## david robinson (Mar 26, 2009)

hi guys,
i guess i, personally, like art that gets me off in some way.
could be orchestral, could be rap???? eh! or pop/rock.
could be real, or VI's, don't really care.
has to speak to me.
DR9.


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## Hal (Mar 26, 2009)

i see this,a rap/hiphop or rock guy will come here listen to some of the Demos around he will get scared,wont post his trance and know that the place isnt for him.

second: i would say 95% of the member are composers who compose for movies,tv and advertising so they discuss what they r interested in the most orchestral or orchestral hybride tracks

this made..

third: most of the adds here are usually orchestral,choir,cinematic percussion and the like stuff.this is what everybody think of the place.

easy with the forums in here talking about postproduction,scripting,orchestration technic and gigastudio ur finally sure "as a new member" posting ur electronica will be kinda missplaced and weird !?

however no one said he cant do it...


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## Niah (Mar 26, 2009)

Even if there are producers and pop musicians using vst's I'm pretty sure that nobody uses more vst's and sample libraries than composers for media, who most of the times are completely dependent on them to produce music.

But I guess that you can also ask the same question when it comes to gearslutz or kvr-vst as to why aren't these forums more orchestral oriented? And the reason is...the people

I kind of look at forum boards as night clubs

you can go into one and ask yourself "oh no, techno again?" yea but the people dig it

truth of the matter is VI has alot of members put only a handful are active posters, and they set the tone of this place


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## Hannes_F (Mar 26, 2009)

synergy543 @ Fri Mar 27 said:


> btw, what's a real guy like you doing on a virtual site anywho?



Errr ... I am composing with samples as anybody else here. Only difference is that a) I can record live strings _additionally _(but not always do) and b) I stopped posting own music when I came here because I decided I should really learn to miditweak and mix first trying to match the overall quality level here.



> They call you the "smilin assassin" you know?



Ouch. No, I didnt. I am a musician and addicted to sound, and using whatever tool I can get hold of. Of course this includes samples.


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## lux (Mar 27, 2009)

synergy543 @ Thu Mar 26 said:


> The forum motto is "Musicians helping musicians". However, I think by default over the years the focus has narrowed down to essentially "Film Composers discussing Orchestral Sampling". Maybe this was due to a mass exodus from the genocide of high-octane sample users over on NS at one point?


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## bryla (Mar 27, 2009)

But still, I got confused and thought about this, when a guy posted a question about Reason synths in the off topic ?!?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 27, 2009)

I regularly post about synths here - nothing weird about that, I think. :D Many of us combine orchestral and electronic sounds.


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## bryla (Mar 27, 2009)

The weird thing was that the poster posted in off topic, and not in any music related forum


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 27, 2009)

Oh right, good point! I think we had a separate synth section at one point, but it got folded into Sample Talk.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 27, 2009)

Nah, you need Omnisphere and Reaktor too.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 27, 2009)

".. sure but why is there not more talk about synth samples, drum samples, guitar samples ... and not only samples but all sorts of virtual instruments / vst synths / instrument plugins ... "

I don't necessarily agree with that assessment, Hannes. This isn't really a synth nut forum, but you see posts about all kinds of things.

Off the top of my head, there have been posts about Omnisphere and RMX (does anybody here not use RMX?), I recently posted about Scarbee's basses...okay, there's not a lot of Reason posting here, but I suspect that a lot of people here have it too.

I think what you see here is mostly composers, and that's what shapes the discussion. It's not that they're - we're - only interested in orchestral music, just that it's the most exhilarating.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 27, 2009)

Very good points by Nick.

I think the fact that with an orchestra, everyone is basically using the same _synths._ We are all using an identical palette: the orchestra (sure, different libraries but you know what I mean.) So the discussion easily moves to what you are doing with those sounds. With rock or pop etc., the palette is far more varied with elements that may be off the radar for some. With the orchestra everyone is pretty well versed with each and every instrument so no one is left out due to unfamiliarity or lack of interest. It may be just a percentage thing at this forum where orchestral guys are the majority.


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## R. Soul (Mar 28, 2009)

My low post count might indicate that I drop by here once a month, but I'm actually on here several times a day. 
Why? Apart from SOS's business forum and the ocassional posts on Gearslutz this is the most music business minded virtual instrument/music production forum I've encountered and I always enjoy reading up on the discussions regarding that. 
However as I don't really do much in regards to orchestral compositions I skip all these discussions about articulations/scripts etc but it's always interesting to read about new products regardless of whether it's orchestral/drums/synths etc.

I totally agree with with Hannes, apart from a couple of Spectrasonics' VSTi's, Eastwest's non-orchestral VSTi's and perhaps Zebra you rarely hear about anything other than orchestral sample libraries. I mean, I just can't imagine those page long discussions which you have on KVR about which compressor have what "flavour" (there's currently a 100+ pages discussion about a new compressor), analog vs. digital, comparing additive synthesis against subtractive, how to make a kickdrum phat (haha) etc. 
But let's face it KVR is a hobbyist's playground; never have I seen eg. rates for 1 min. music for TV and other things business related mentioned, and that really doesn't suit people who are actually trying to break into the industry. So KVR is definitely lacking something which this forum has.

For Rock and Pop I think SOS and Gearslutz are very good. Sure there's hobbyist's but there's quite a lot of Pro's there. This place is good for Orchestral, but that's about it.
For Electronic music, I just haven't found a forum with a fair amount of Pro's. 

I wonder how many people here who are aware of the 100s of synths out there made from companies other than Native instruments and Spectrasonic?
How about synths like: Sylenth1, Gladiator, Imposcar, Predator, Albino 3 and Rapture?

And for drums: BPM, Guru and Addictive drums?

And the 100s of effects other than from UAD and Waves (and Altiverb)?

How about Audio damage, Ohmforce, Acoustica audio etc.


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## lux (Mar 28, 2009)

In my humble opinion it has to do only with the fact most musicians here do not release electronic/rock/pop stuff as per se. I mean, i can count on my fingers the times electronic or pop or rock (non score related) works have been posted. The fact sometimes musicians here do post stuff that includes synths or guitar because trends and clients or the work itself call for those has nothing to do with being really a pop/electronica/rock musician imho. Not automatically at least. its more a kind of flexibility and being able to surf within genres thats asked.

Thats the reason most musicians here are probably not really interested to get deep into soft/gear related to those genres. In a good number of cases they feel covered by a very good couple synths and a couple guitar/bass libs. And probably theyre really covered by that according to what they do every day. 

At the same time asking about orchestra on places like the gear page or kvr will never lead to detialed and deep replies as you could get here. No way. 

This is a forum for the Media industry Composers, with, of course, some exceptions. And probably this is one of its points of strenght.

Ned, what is Reaktor? :?: 

Luca


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 28, 2009)

I think that it's also a reflection of the industry. I can't remember the last time a director or producer asked me to do something with synths. All I ever hear is, "Oh, and please don't use any synths...". Very different, IMO, from 7-8 yrs ago, when electronica/techno was more popular in the mainstream. This will change again in the future, no doubt. That said, I just finished a soundtrack where I used synths in a supporting (creepy pads) role, under orch and/or big percs. I guarantee no one at the network will notice.

Luca, I'm sure you know or have seen http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=reaktor5_us (Reaktor).


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## TheoKrueger (Mar 28, 2009)

On a second note, I think it might have to do with the way the forum is divided.

There is one huge forum called "Sample Talk" so the largest percentage of the posts go on that forum. If someone wants to talk about a VST effect they would probably post in "Post Pro and mixing discussion". If they wanted to talk about a VSTi there's no such suitable place.

My oppinion is that it would be better to divide the "Sample talk" into these areas:

a) Sample Talk
Samples and Sample libaries.
b) VST/RTAS/AU Instruments or *PC / MAC Soft Synths
Virtual instruments, Soft Synths, Hardware synths, Players and such. 
c) VST/RTAS/AU Effects or *PC / MAC Effects
Software Effects, Hardware effect units. Mastering and audio manipulation plug-ins.

I think that the Post Pro & Mixing Discussion covers the use of the above mentioned Effects.

What do you think? I think it would be easier and perhaps more friendly/clear to newcomers that way.

Cheers,
Theo.


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## lux (Mar 28, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sat Mar 28 said:


> Luca, I'm sure you know or have seen http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=reaktor5_us (Reaktor).



you think? :twisted: 









seriously, i think i will never get really into deep with it, i couldnt either find the time to try all the ensembles that are out there...


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 28, 2009)

All you have to do is ask someone to recommend some of the better ones... 8)


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## lux (Mar 28, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sat Mar 28 said:


> All you have to do is ask someone to recommend some of the better ones... 8)





i was considering starting a thread about best reaktor ensembles, (i have a very few to share too, but really not much) but...where? once members decided to kill the synth forum long time ago no place seems suited for this kind of discussion... :(


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 28, 2009)

I disagree. The Sample Talk section is defined by this line: 


> General discussion area all about samples, sample libraries, virtual instruments, *synths*, players and such.



So basically, if you (and I mean all who are interested) want more synth talk, just post about it! Those of us who are into it will participate and make this aspect of compoing/scoring (using electronic sounds) more visible here.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 28, 2009)

BTW, I've made several my-favourite-ensembles lists that I posted on bigbluelounge (now macosxaudio) that I could find and post here, if you're interested.


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## lux (Mar 28, 2009)

That would be great Ned, thanks


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## lux (Mar 28, 2009)

lux @ Sat Mar 28 said:


> That would be great Ned, thanks for offering


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## Stevie (Mar 31, 2009)

Ned, where's the list? *searching the whole fred*


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## Hannes_F (Mar 31, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sat Mar 28 said:


> BTW, I've made several my-favourite-ensembles lists that I posted on bigbluelounge (now macosxaudio) that I could find and post here, if you're interested.



+1 Mr. Ned o-[][]-o


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 31, 2009)

Whoa, friends! I forgot - thanks for reminding me. I'll get on it before the weekend. Sorry can't go any faster, too much work.


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