# Composing vs. ability to play



## hudson (Jan 20, 2014)

I am just starting out in playing the keyboard and and am also new to composing. I was wondering how far should one take their playing on order for it still be beneficial to composing. I realize I'm at the very beginning of both fields so my playing has a long way to go, but I'm under the impression that just because one can play exceptionally well it doesn't mean their compositions are necessarily better. 

Hopefully this makes sense….can clarify if it doesn't make sense.

thanks


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## Rctec (Jan 20, 2014)

Well, simple answer: The better you get at everything, the better you are at everything 

get practicing! ...remember: 10000 hours. (read 'Outliers')

-H-


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## Graham Keitch (Jan 20, 2014)

hudson @ Mon Jan 20 said:


> I am just starting out in playing the keyboard and and am also new to composing. I was wondering how far should one take their playing on order for it still be beneficial to composing. I realize I'm at the very beginning of both fields so my playing has a long way to go, but I'm under the impression that just because one can play exceptionally well it doesn't mean their compositions are necessarily better.
> 
> Hopefully this makes sense….can clarify if it doesn't make sense.
> 
> thanks



I think it very much depends on the genre. If you're planning to write keyboard music it clearly will help if you have excellent keyboard skills.

It also depends on whether you need keyboard skills to input data into a DAW? Again, the genre will dictate this. If you want to compose keyboard style orchestral music based on chords, arpeggios and percussive technique then good keyboard skills will help. It will also help you to sound like sooo many other DAW users!! :wink: 

If you want to write well composed individual lines for each of the orchestral sections you would be better advised to put your efforts into learning composition. Notation software will probably be a better choice and will help prevent the 'keyboard' impression that dominates so many compositions with sample libraries and makes them sound synthy.

In summary - it depends on the genre.

Graham


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## The Darris (Jan 20, 2014)

I've played various instruments for the last 22 years, piano and percussion being my main ones. I don't play professional but rather as a hobby because, after all, we all love music. I started composing when I was 13 (14 years ago) and what helped me out the most of having training in improvisation and understanding the construction of a piece of music.

Sure, being able to play an instrument helped but I found that my compositions were better after I studied theory, counterpoint, and orchestration. Taking the time to learn some of the theory is a good starting point but then again, some don't have that skill set (Hans Zimmer for instance). He is a professional keyboardist and through years of just playing the instrument, he just picked it all up. He is a great example of the non-traditionalist and that you can achieve a great sounding composition without really knowing too much about theory and how to read music and all that. (just realized he posted in this forum :oops: )

My beset recommendation would be to continue learning. If you aren't taking the time to learn anything and everything about composing then you will never reach your full potential. I know I am far from the working composer but I have been doing this long enough to know that as long as I keep trying new things and maintaining a drive to learn more and more about my craft, my compositions get better and better.

The best way to learning how to compose is to just do it. Don't think about it, don't have someone teach you. Just sit down with your keyboard, sequencer, or your pencil and manuscript and write out the notes. Good luck Hudson.

PS: TL;DR = Having a basic keyboard knowledge would suffice to helping you as a composer.


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## Graham Keitch (Jan 20, 2014)

Sorry, forgot to mention in my earlier reply that another good trick (if you can sing!!) is to join a choir! That will help give you a good grounding in harmony and the importance of each line. This helps enormously when starting to compose for string orchestra especially. Getting the balance, interplay and role of each voice right is important to the choir master - and so it should be to you as a composer and orchestrator.


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## Rctec (Jan 20, 2014)

Actually, one of the best ways to learn was having to work on an 8-voice monophonic sequencer. My counterpoint was a lot more developed then, since I had to make each line count. But it helps to be able to play.

But practice your DAW! The computer is a perfectly legitimate musical instrument that takes as much study and dedication as any other instrument - if you want to be even remotely interesting and expressive on it...


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## Vlzmusic (Jan 20, 2014)

hudson

If you are still asking those questions, chances are you are not naturally improvisational character. Thats one of the most beneficial aspects of good keyboard connection, and those who has it since young age, typically improvise some music just by an inner drive, not by trying to master any profession.

If composition is the important goal in your head, the keys may serve as an introductory tool to a world of music literature, and music aspects assistant. Put weight on those rather on "performing" aspects, which will be out of your reach for some time.


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## The Darris (Jan 20, 2014)

Rctec @ Mon Jan 20 said:


> But practice your DAW! The computer is a perfectly legitimate musical instrument that takes as much study and dedication as any other instrument - if you want to be even remotely interesting and expressive on it...



+1

That has been me for the last 3 years. I was strictly notation only but since I moved to a DAW, it has become like its own instrument in a way. When I step away from it for too long, I get rusty and stuff sounds like crap. Always keep practicing and learning everything you can about the software and hardware you use in the writing process.


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 20, 2014)

I wonder how many hours I've been playing the piano / keyboard? Must be about 10,000 I'd have thought. Started at age 10, failed Grade 5 piano as a teenager, I'm now 46. Guess what? I'm still pretty crap. I mean, it's relative. I can play and get my ideas down, but I make tols of niskates. I wish I was better, I really do - I'd be quicker and I'd swear less.

So it's pragmatism, the better you are the easier your job will be. I can't bear the thought of being any WORSE than I am, put it that way.


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## Graham Keitch (Jan 20, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Mon Jan 20 said:


> but I make tols of niskates. I wish I was better, I really do - I'd be quicker and I'd swear less.



 :D o[])


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## SymphonicSamples (Jan 20, 2014)

The way I look at it is , no matter what level your at , if you have a passion for music , you will never stop learning . Be it composition , orchestration , instruments , software , mixing , producing , studying great composers , the list goes on and on . As Rctec already stated , the more focused hours you have on the clock , the better you will become . It would be crazy to see a real-time accurate set of stats , from birth to now , showing the top 20 activities and the accumulated time spent . Coming soon .. http://www.theuniversestats.com (www.theuniversestats.com)


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## AC986 (Jan 20, 2014)

Rctec @ Mon Jan 20 said:


> Actually, one of the best ways to learn was having to work on an 8-voice monophonic sequencer. My counterpoint was a lot more developed then, since I had to make each line count. But it helps to be able to play.
> 
> But practice your DAW! The computer is a perfectly legitimate musical instrument that takes as much study and dedication as any other instrument - if you want to be even remotely interesting and expressive on it...



First paragraph. Fantastic. I did that with a mini Moog and a Teac and it helped enormously.

Second paragraph, I would just add that I agree with the computer being legit and I am about Grade 1 on a computer. But to Hudson the OP I would also add don't let the computer dominate the actual process of learning to play instruments of your choice. Don't just sit in front of a computer. These days most keyboards are computers, that's the trouble. Get all of that but put a crappy old, real piano in the corner of the room for the first 10 years and go to it in times of trouble.  If you can make that sound good, you're there. 

*The Norwegian School of Keyboard Training* is what you need. :D


http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35276


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## Daryl (Jan 20, 2014)

There is no downside to being able to play well, but there is a disadvantage in not being able to play, as has been mentioned above.

However, if you are a good keyboard performer you do have to be careful not to compose solely by improvisation, because the hands tend to fall into the well worn patterns that they have learned over the years. Get your ideas in your head, and then use your playing abilities as a tool to flesh them out.

D


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## rgames (Jan 20, 2014)

This discussion has come up several times on this board and I think the general consensus has been that pretty much every successful composer is proficient on *some* instrument. Mostly keyboards/piano but not exclusively.

rgames


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 20, 2014)

Rctec @ Mon Jan 20 said:


> Actually, one of the best ways to learn was having to work on an 8-voice monophonic sequencer. My counterpoint was a lot more developed then, since I had to make each line count. But it helps to be able to play.
> 
> But practice your DAW! The computer is a perfectly legitimate musical instrument that takes as much study and dedication as any other instrument - if you want to be even remotely interesting and expressive on it...



Very true. I am frequently asked how I know so much about Logic and when I help people they say "you are brilliant."

BiutI am FAR from brilliant and my late bass player used to have to patch my board for me. When I would ask my engineer how he got something to sound so good he would say, " Simple, I rolled of 4 dB at about 40k" and I would answer, "Stop, you are making my head hurt."

But I have spent a ridiculous amount of hours with Logic and as a result I I can create good musical pieces efficiently with it (at least I rate them so), write books and columns and I am paid to help people. 10% inspiration, 90 % perspiration.


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## reddognoyz (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm a pretty proficient guitar player, but my chops are down these days as I spend all day hacking away at a keyboard. Love guitar, but never really made any money doing it : )
My DAW is probably the device I'm most proficient at, certainly 10,000 hours on that! The keyboard is more of a typewriter for me when I am writing into my DAW(DP btw). I am playing "keyboard" parts less than 10% of the time I think. Mostly sketching in lines for other virtual instruments, and fixing in the DAW. I was a composition major at Berklee and that has helped me through a lot of situations where my weaker keyboard and arraigning skills are challenged.


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## Lupez (Jan 20, 2014)

just curious, is there any single succesful composer who cannot play some basic piano ?


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## Jdiggity1 (Jan 20, 2014)

If you are a good player, then you are more familiar with good music due to your repertoire, which shows through when you write.
But, being a bad performer does not stop you from listening to good music.

Listen and learn.


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## kdm (Jan 20, 2014)

The better player you are, the faster and more creative you can be. Technology makes it look like, and sound like there are shortcuts. And there are more now than 10, 25 or 50 years ago, but they will only take you as far as the 100,000 other aspiring "composers" with little actual playing or composition skill. But these are shortcuts to becoming average. There is no shortcut to being great, or successful. Applying music theory and arranging simply isn't going to be as easy without instrumental performance skill. Some things become intuitive after years of playing Chopin, Bartok, Debussy, et al; sight reading, and improvisational performance experience. And it isn't just about the complexity of the music, but the emotion - writing melodies, feeling the flow and variation of music. 

And we need more artists in music and fewer "sounds like music" design technicians. Like the saying/anecdote goes, "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" "Practice, practice, practice." (attributed to Arthur Rubinstein).


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## wst3 (Jan 20, 2014)

I think composition is aided by two related things... first is being proficient at a musical instrument, and second, using that instrument in a group setting.

The first - well it lets you translate that which is in your head to a medium that others can hear. That is not to discount writing it out on paper so that others can make the translation, but for ME I find that my writing improves as my ability to play the stuff in my head improves.

The second? That's all about learning to hear and interact with others. I think it helps both composition and arranging/orchestration.

Can you compose and orchestrate without playing an instrument? Certainly. In fact I think it is an essential exercise to write things without touching an instrument... but that exercise becomes easier - for ME at least - as my playing skills improve.

As an aside - the observation from RTec probably applies to many (most?) here. I know that I was much more productive when all I had was an 8 track recorder, a couple of synthesizers, and my guitars. The quality (my perception) of my productions has improved as the tools have gotten better, but I spend a lot more time getting the tools to work together than I used to. And I do think that the limitations forced me to work smarter too.


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## rgames (Jan 20, 2014)

Lupez @ Mon Jan 20 said:


> just curious, is there any single succesful composer who cannot play some basic piano ?


I've wondered that myself - I think the answer is "no". In fact, I'd be willing to bet that most successful composers have more than basic piano chops. There are exceptions, of course, but if you're looking at averages and odds then I'd have to say success in compostion is heavily weighted to those who have decent piano chops. My piano chops are horrible - block chords with left hand and melody on right is about it for me - and I definitely feel it limits my productivity. It takes me a while to get the music out of my head and onto the page.

I think Hans' comment about using the computer as an instrument is a good one - technology often moves faster than our ability to figure out how to use it expressively. Brass instruments didn't always have valves, for example, so once they started adding them, the expressive possibilties increased and it took people a while to figure out what they could do with it. Pianos had fewer keys back in the day because they didn't have materials strong enough to support the string tensions needed for extended ranges, etc.

Most traditional instruments have centuries of practical experience behind them, so lots of people have figured out what expressive possibilities are available. That knowledge is transferred to each successive generation of musicians. The computer is so new (relatively) that I think we're still figuring it out, some faster than others (e.g. Mr. Zimmer himself!).

I've been doing music on computers for only 8 or 10 years, so I'm definitely in the camp of those who are still figuring out what I can do with them. I have decades of experience in live performance with traditional acoustic instruments, though, so the vast majority of my musical ideas are generated based on that experience base.

One thing is for certain - the computer as an expressive tool isn't going anywhere. In fact, it is likely only to increase in prominence, so those who figure out how to use it are going to be ahead of the curve.

Off the top of my head, I think music is one of the top three adopters of new technology. The other two are length of life and sex. People seem to apply new technologies in those three areas faster than anywhere else.

rgames


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## germancomponist (Jan 20, 2014)

rgames @ Mon Jan 20 said:


> Off the top of my head, I think music is one of the top three adopters of new technology. The other two are length of life and sex. People seem to apply new technologies in those three areas faster than anywhere else.
> 
> rgames


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## Jetzer (Jan 20, 2014)

I do think playing well helps with writing, but there is a difference between playing well for writing and playing well for recording. 

I have written some pieces for piano that I have played in with a sampled piano in DAW, but I can always go back and program them, and always have to. I think programming piano is quite painful actually. It never sounds as good as when I play it on the grand piano. 

If I had the opportunity to record a real piano I would never play it on my own, except for the most simple pieces. 

I mean I could play Chopins's Nocturne Op. 9 No. 2 for my own enjoyment, but nobody would buy a cd with a recording of it  

It helps, but is a different discipline in the end.


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## cmillar (Jan 20, 2014)

Several years ago, the great Quincy Jones said it best:

He was very saddened that so many young so-called 'musicians' don't actually play any musical instruments...... and he feared for music's future.

Regarding some current musicians/producers:

.... they're missing out on a physical connection to music.... many so-called 'musician's' don't even try to hum or sing!.... they just manipulate samples or loops.

.... they're missing out on what it's like to actually relate making live music with another human being

.... etc, etc.

Meaning, why limit yourself? 

Why be at the mercy of someone else's 'loops' and samples? At least make your own! Play something! Sing! Breathe! Dance! Blow! Strum!..... get a physical attachment to something!

We're people... we're supposed to sing and dance!

Quincy's the man. Words from the very wise and experienced.


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## Waywyn (Jan 20, 2014)

I would second that being able to play an instrument (or record your stuff in realtime) always helps, but in the end it counts what your outcome is.

If your string lines turns out to be awesome on a specific track, then why worry?
On the other hand, sometimes I feel that playing or recording something in realtime can be tricky. Why? Simply because lots of people play and record their stuff and it simply sounds as this: Recorded everything on a keyboard instead of e.g. hearing a string section playing something.

To me personally putting the notes in is just a fraction of what's coming next. The most time goes to tweaking the midi controllers to really make it breathe or work and in my opinion this is how you should treat a library. No matter how experienced or what a virtuoso you are. A human is simply not able to play chords/notes with a strings sound that sound connected or even more ... to get 2-5 controllers right at the same time while recording which are absolutely necessary!!


Due to the few of my tutorials I receive lots of messages from people sending me tracks asking what they could improve. The moment you click on play, you hear that 90% give a sh*t about controllers or even velocity. Horns blow for 3 mins in one bit while string players play ff for 5 mins all the way through a track and so on.


So in the end, as Hans said, whatever skill you achieved is an achieved skill, ... but it can all sound wrong if you don't know how to actually tweak or care about your outcoming wav file you are going to present/deliver etc.


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## germancomponist (Jan 20, 2014)

Waywyn @ Mon Jan 20 said:


> Due to the few of my tutorials I receive lots of messages from people sending me tracks asking what they could improve. The moment you click on play, you hear that 90% give a sh*t about controllers or even velocity. Horns blow for 3 mins in one bit while string players play ff for 5 mins all the way through a track and so on.



I want to add something about that ff/fff notes: 

I think many people have not set the optimum volume in their monitoring system. If a note is ff or fff, then it must also be very loud in the studio! If the listening volume is set "too soft", this will inevitably lead to these ff/fff notes.


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## sourcefor (Jan 20, 2014)

Yeah All i can say is when I first started I started as a drummer and went to about 2 semesters of music school ( i regret quitting by the way)..I did whatever sounded good to me without knowing what I was doing...I happened to be a good sequencer. As time went on, I learned Theory and piano as well as all the skills I need to compose, mix and record music. It is a definite PLUS to know as much as you can and play an instrument with some sort of facility especially when you are trying to compose for them! Just sayin! For me I love learning and playing! I say go for it and learn your instrument of choice and learn it well!


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## G.E. (Jan 20, 2014)

The more you can do,the better.But there are workarounds for this kind of thing.For example,my piano skills are very basic at the moment but I can play a bass line or chords with the left hand while playing a melody with the right hand.That way I can at least sketch an idea and if I want to do more with that idea I always know in my head what I realy wanted to do(but couldn't play on the piano) and I can work on those details later in my daw.


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## JT (Jan 21, 2014)

Can someone be a chef but not eat their own food?
Can someone design a race car but not know how to drive?
Can someone design a home but not understand how to use a hammer?

Probably yes in these examples, but they will never be as proficient as they could be.

Don't kid yourself. Playing an instrument is more than just being able to plunk out ideas. Playing an instrument teaches phrasing, listening skills, balance, intonation, emotion, etc......

If you don't play an instrument now, then start. On anything. Buy a $10 plastic recorder if nothing else, and discover the difference between just playing a melody and making that melody come alive. Breathe life into it.


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## Daryl (Jan 21, 2014)

JT @ Tue Jan 21 said:


> If you don't play an instrument now, then start. On anything. Buy a $10 plastic recorder if nothing else, and discover the difference between just playing a melody and making that melody come alive. Breathe life into it.


Or even better (as has already been pointed out) sing. After all, when one is learning a instrument, singing is the way to improve expressiveness.

D


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 21, 2014)

Daryl @ Tue Jan 21 said:


> JT @ Tue Jan 21 said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't play an instrument now, then start. On anything. Buy a $10 plastic recorder if nothing else, and discover the difference between just playing a melody and making that melody come alive. Breathe life into it.
> ...



True that. Singers by necessity understand phrasing very well and apply that to their composing/orchestration.


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## Waywyn (Jan 21, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Jan 21 said:


> Daryl @ Tue Jan 21 said:
> 
> 
> > JT @ Tue Jan 21 said:
> ...



.. and they have to breathe!


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## sourcefor (Jan 21, 2014)

Yes i agree Sing..Sing.. Sing Even if you have choir samples you should sing on them if you can to add realism and soul.....and with audio to MIDI feature in logic you should be composing in no time...haha!


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## peksi (Feb 1, 2014)

to my experience the advantage in the ability to play is exactly what it is sounds like. ability to transfer your ideas from your mind to the your DAW without letting it interfere with your composing process. 

otherwise it gets more or less technical and you may lose your scwartz in translation.


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## Saxer (Feb 2, 2014)

beginners who know three chords and a pentatonic scale compose music with three chords and melody/bassline based on a pentatonic scale.
this can be nice tracks but they are limited after a while. so how do you get out of this? learn more chords and more scales. same with rhythm. same with sound. same with articulation. same with instrumentation. same with counterpoint. same with style.

playing around with rhythms or a scale or a chord progression can't be done in a daw. 
it's like learning a language using a typewriter only. you can't be an author of french books if you never talk french. you don't have to be virtuos but you at least you must imagine how it sounds and feels if you were.

and why do you want to be a composer if you don't know how it feels to make music?


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## Guy Rowland (Feb 2, 2014)

Now I think of it, wasn't there a story a few years back of someone who composed a symphony in his head and couldn't play a note? I may be misremembering but I think he dictated / sung the notes to someone who wrote it all down and it took years... it was very good... Google has failed me, am I making it all up or does it ring any bells with anyone?


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## rayinstirling (Feb 2, 2014)

Guy,
I think you've answered your own question, it was that good you can't remember. 

The fact is, there may be exceptional circumstances where someone reaches an acceptable level of expertise in music composition and sound design never having performed publicly using voice or other instrument either solo or probably more importantly in an ensemble but, apart from anything else, they are missing or have missed out on what music is all about.
Everyone should do it or they will forever regret it.

disclaimer: I now miss performing but not all the other stuff that goes with it.


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## AlexandreSafi (Feb 2, 2014)

I'll give your question a shot 

As someone very wise on this forum immediately said to you:
10000 hours (Outliers or Mastery by R.Greene which goes further to a 20000 hours hypothesis)
But here is my very own heart-felt philosophical 2-part answer to this topic to whether good or great playing is really needed or not:

When you want, like all of us, "better compositions", what do you mean by that emotionally & intellectually?
State it in your mind first!
Forget any genres, what is it, that to you, to your heart will make a single composition better?

What you want is to figure out first, what is it that you want to express as a musician, composition & performance-wise, (On paper/DAW & Playing in front of people)

Music is like, "not like", IS a language...
I'm writing to you as the result of me knowing how to "feel and spell and compose" English words, but that's the writing part...

And you need to be fluent at that, how? 
Like i said, feel internally English as if you would feel Music as a musician, which starts with an absolute clarity of your internal ear that allows you to go from "within to without"...

That, as it is for any linguistic language of the world, takes time. 
In schools, i always resented the fact that they always teach to read first instead of speaking first...
And even "Speaking isn't just speaking"! It's a craft. A combination of buttloads of words that you start making sense of through social context with repetitive, concentrated (even a lot of times subconscious) listening...

Even the skill of being aware of the music behind any language using your vocal cords and mouth helps you be a better speaker:

So, same for the language of music. 
My belief is that you get better at the "expression of music" as a composer through practicing hearing/listening and understanding what it is you're listening to from the simple all the way to the complex levels of music.. 

...and so through that can you start making newer musical sentences/phrases/melodies/harmonies/countrapuntal stuff, etc... 

...and, and, and of course a cause for which will also lead to "better playing", and will probably be enough for others to feel you and understand you, to connect with you...

To me, it seems,
Better playing comes though understanding the importance of the art of listening internally and desconstructively.

That is why i think for example a Danny Elfman, (great hero of us all) who, so i heard is a so-so player, can cook you a great load of expressive and yes,... sometimes very virtuosic notes... 

Then you have John Williams...
Ok him? He's not from this planet, ok?!
But i guess what i want to say is that for him, mastery of piano playing leads to incredible, faster, better communication of his ideas to Spielberg, but also through paper for musicans...

Did Hedwig's theme and his infinited-number of Celesta-violin notes come as a result of master playing? I don't think so, he still had to write them down remember? So, he listened first...

I cannot imagine the amount of listening that great man put himself through...

And this is the short answer:
In our modern world, imagine a skilled John Williams, not only his playing in piano of course, but in computer, in front of a DAW, he'll be fast inputting those notes trust me, so that helps and it helps also in those moments when you're expressing a musical idea which hasn't been written or sequenced, 

but is it the 1st step for "better composing"? 

I will say,
Listening and hearing is the key to better compositions because it is the most immediate skill that always stays connected to what we call metaphysically "the heart"!

2 movie examples for this:


Remember "Amadeus (1982)", watch these 2 gems again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u4Mmv90BWc

--> Pay attention to his eyes movement while "bettering" Salieri's composition, that's not his piano playing he's listening to, he's going inside his head...
And this totally goes reverse when you think of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNaXQQbcgw0

--> Salieri can litteraly "feel" the entire score through visual-listening internally..

I read here somewhere that mr. Zimmer wrote saying that he had the rare profound opportunity to see the great Ennio Morricone sight-read an entire score in front of him... What a profound experience, indeed! There I'd think It's not JUST sight-reading again, it's "aurally" sight-reading 

-->so what do you think happens when you can skillfully listen that well to composing...


Maybe a more useful answer to you:
-Compare the different skills between each other
-Figure out which would serve you best in you life and career

-> It's like figuring out which human skills are necessary for you because they will allow/guarantee you to be a better husband, love your wife even better every day no matter what are the lows and highs and make her love you back... -- Forget being a composer, then, that would be an anti-skill in this case :D

Giving Love no matter what domain is a skill that first takes some inward and outward observing & listening practice...

Whatever that means...

You'd be suprised as a musician how musical mastery inventiveness & expression isn't something that's technology-related like a piano, but PLEASE, do practice your DAW indeed, that's a harsh beast not to neglect at any costs... 

Sorry for the redundant length, always had terrible marks on my french dissertations, however i'm realizing this is quite theraputic for me though! 

.AS.


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## jonathanwright (Feb 3, 2014)

I had two piano lessons when I was about seven, threw a strop because I 'didn't like it' and stopped!

So I'm pretty much 'self-taught' - which probably means I'm technically rubbish. I get by though.

The DAW is a wonderful thing and with my keyboard playing, it's the equivalent of airbrushing in photoshop.

:D 

As the previous guys have said though, it's a case of playing, playing and playing. The more you do, the better you'll get.


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## R. Soul (Feb 3, 2014)

If you want to be good at composing - compose.
If you want to be good at playing - play.

Obviously a composer who can play has the edge over the composing-only guy, but I think you should focus on composing first.


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## KingIdiot (Feb 3, 2014)

the better you play, the better you'll be able to work with the new realtime scripted instruments, and adjust to their quirks.. Your phrasing and realism in mockups will benefit.

it's NOT jsut about being a ood keyboard (or whatever midi instrument in( player. It's about learning to play the tools you are using.

This goes for learning to "play" the DAW.

limit yourself like hans said, if you want to work on counterpoint and such.

do all you can to get batter. 

It's fucking limiting to think that one isn't gonna help the other. They both go hand in hand and help to push each one to get better if you approach it as a learning and working experience.

write like a piano player, you're gonna voice like a piano player. Play like a VI instrument player and you're going to be more flexible.


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