# Dorico 2.2 released



## S4410

A major update for Dorico 2 was released today from Steinberg

At last -among other things- we got real-time Midi recording.The list of new features and improvements is impressive for a free update.

More info here


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## devonmyles

S4410 said:


> A major update for Dorico 2 was released today from Steinberg
> 
> At last -among other things- we got real-time Midi recording.



At last...


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## joebaggan

S4410 said:


> A major update for Dorico 2 was released today from Steinberg
> 
> At last -among other things- we got real-time Midi recording.The list of new features and improvements is impressive for a free update.
> 
> More info here



The update is only free if you already have Dorico 2. If you're on Dorico 1, then it'll cost you $100.


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## Manaberry

I want this software so bad but it's pricey, demet..


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## Rob Elliott

Thanks for the heads up.


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## bryla

Finally I can assign a custom shortcut for accidentals! Danish keyboard has not been recognized so my accidentals have been all across the keyboard and not next to each other. Honestly the sole reason I have never finished a project in dorico.


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## SimonCharlesHanna

I only just realised you can (easily?) load your own VST instruments into Dorico!

Is it simple to integrate say Berlin Orchestra or Spitfire Orchestra into Dorico for playback? Are there limitations?


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## Nathanael Iversen

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I only just realised you can (easily?) load your own VST instruments into Dorico!
> 
> Is it simple to integrate say Berlin Orchestra or Spitfire Orchestra into Dorico for playback? Are there limitations?


There are definitely limitations. There's a sticky thread at the top of the Dorico forum on Steinberg's site. Bottom line, you won't want to use it that way yet. It isn't "notation with a full Cubase-like mockup capability yet."

The expression map set up is doable, but a pain. It is NOT the same as Cubase. You can use a Cubase expression map to start. To make it work you would not be able to use Berlin, anyway. Each instrument is limited to one MIDI channel in Dorico. That doesn't work when you have violin shorts and longs on separate patches (like Berlin). You could build a matrix in VSL instruments that would work. Steinberg knows about all this. Read the thread. What is missing is well documented and understood. They will get there. But I bet more people wanted MIDI input than the ability to do full mockup from a notation package.

The other frustrating thing is that you can have whatever number of CC lanes you want. But only one visible at a time! Given that almost everything gets CC1 and CC11 (and possibly others), this is just a workflow killer.

So tantalizing. Happily, the core notation function is really quite nice. No regrets about moving on from Sibelius. As a compositional tool, Dorico + NotePerformer makes me very happy. But it isn't a mockup tool yet.


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## SimonCharlesHanna

Nathanael Iversen said:


> Each instrument is limited to one MIDI channel in Dorico.


I thought I saw something in the 2.2 update about multi channels or ABCD or something? Is that not related?

I love noteperformer but not being able to record in real time completely kills my workflow.


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## SimonCharlesHanna

Also, does slur activate a legato patch? Sorry am I derailing this thread.


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## Nathanael Iversen

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I thought I saw something in the 2.2 update about multi channels or ABCD or something? Is that not related?
> 
> I love noteperformer but not being able to record in real time completely kills my workflow.


I think you are confusing things. on multichannel, I was referring only to how expression maps work.

And Dorico 2.2 supports live MIDI recording. That's the headline feature.


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## Nathanael Iversen

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Also, does slur activate a legato patch? Sorry am I derailing this thread.



Right now, you use written playing techniques to map to a playing technique that maps to an expression map that goes to your samples. It is not a fully baked workflow. Hence my comment.

The flying unicorn we all want in a notation program is still mythical. On the other hand, it is an excellent notation program. I am not an engraver however. That crew has its own special advanced needs. I use the program to write music, which is not an overly complex ask.


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## Wolf68

I hope they offer soon an reduced update Price from Dorico1. Perhaps at Christmas?


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## Markus Kohlprath

Now there are barnumbers across the staff. This really is one of the most important improvements fo me.


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## joebaggan

Be careful on this update. The update crashed my pc and doesn't reliably start up.


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## Manaberry

How tf a software update makes your computer fcked?


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## shnootre

As far as I can tell, you still can't edit key velocity for individual notes - is that right? I also don't see that swing feel in playback has been implemented. I know they'll get there - but those are the changes I need to really consider switching from 26 years of Finale...


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## jamwerks

Being a long time Finale user, I found this video really informative about Dorico.


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## shnootre

Actually Swing playback has been implemented - I was wrong on that, it's been here since 2.1 But velocity is still wanting (i.e. you can't edit velocity of individual notes)


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## jeremiahpena

I decided to jump in now that realtime MIDI recording is in. Got Noteperformer too (which works great with live MIDI input) and while I'm still learning the program, I'm surprised just how quickly I'm getting accustomed to writing with it. It's nice to go back to notation after years using only a DAW.


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## SimonCharlesHanna

jeremiahpena said:


> I decided to jump in now that realtime MIDI recording is in. Got Noteperformer too (which works great with live MIDI input) and while I'm still learning the program, I'm surprised just how quickly I'm getting accustomed to writing with it. It's nice to go back to notation after years using only a DAW.


There's no lag with Noteperformer like there is with Sibelius?
(recording in real time)


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## jeremiahpena

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> There's no lag with Noteperformer like there is with Sibelius?
> (recording in real time)



I'm not sure how much lag there is in Sibelius. There's maybe 50 or so ms of lag with realtime recording in Dorico, similar to sample libraries like CSS (not the legatos, just the shorts and such), but it's totally playable. Dorico's rhythmic interpretation is quite strict which sometimes causes weird rhythms, but it has a requantize function (Edit -> Requantize) that works quite well for fixing it up.


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## SimonCharlesHanna

jeremiahpena said:


> I'm not sure how much lag there is in Sibelius. There's maybe 50 or so ms of lag with realtime recording in Dorico, similar to sample libraries like CSS (not the legatos, just the shorts and such), but it's totally playable. Dorico's rhythmic interpretation is quite strict which sometimes causes weird rhythms, but it has a requantize function (Edit -> Requantize) that works quite well for fixing it up.


Awesome 

Noteperformer in Sibelius isn't "bad", it's unplayable. Good to hear it's working in Dorico.


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## Jaap

jamwerks said:


> Being a long time Finale user, I found this video really informative about Dorico.



Watched only a part, but thank you! That is a very good video showcasing things. Also long time Finale user here since 1998 and this looks a hell lot smoother on a lot of things.


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## ptram

shnootre said:


> you can't edit velocity of individual notes


Can't you use the classical dynamic markings, like pp, p, mf, ff?

Paolo


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## TimCox

I have 10 days left on my demo, I'm loving Dorico. I haven't enjoyed a notation software this much since my days of using Notion and with this new update it's sounds like it's inching ever so closer to the 'perfect' software


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## Manaberry

TimCox said:


> I have 10 days left on my demo, I'm loving Dorico. I haven't enjoyed a notation software this much since my days of using Notion and with this new update it's sounds like it's inching ever so closer to the 'perfect' software



Haha, I felt exactly the same during my demo period. Know I'm still trying to find money to get the software!


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## Nathanael Iversen

ptram said:


> Can't you use the classical dynamic markings, like pp, p, mf, ff?
> 
> Paolo


Of course. NotePerformer does a great job tracking all these markings.


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## prodigalson

Nathanael Iversen said:


> There are definitely limitations. There's a sticky thread at the top of the Dorico forum on Steinberg's site. Bottom line, you won't want to use it that way yet. It isn't "notation with a full Cubase-like mockup capability yet."
> 
> The expression map set up is doable, but a pain. It is NOT the same as Cubase. You can use a Cubase expression map to start. To make it work you would not be able to use Berlin, anyway. Each instrument is limited to one MIDI channel in Dorico. That doesn't work when you have violin shorts and longs on separate patches (like Berlin). You could build a matrix in VSL instruments that would work. Steinberg knows about all this. Read the thread. What is missing is well documented and understood. They will get there. But I bet more people wanted MIDI input than the ability to do full mockup from a notation package.
> 
> The other frustrating thing is that you can have whatever number of CC lanes you want. But only one visible at a time! Given that almost everything gets CC1 and CC11 (and possibly others), this is just a workflow killer.
> 
> So tantalizing. Happily, the core notation function is really quite nice. No regrets about moving on from Sibelius. As a compositional tool, Dorico + NotePerformer makes me very happy. But it isn't a mockup tool yet.



I'm going to dive into that sticky to see what the known issues are but FWIW, I've just started creating expression maps in Dorico for my VSTs and I've actually found it relatively straightforward so far in 2.2. Ive used KS patches in Spitfire Chamber Strings with basic playing techniques and so far dorico seems to play back through the samples relatively easily. I haven't tried Berlin yet but in capsule you're not limited to shorts and longs being on separate patches so I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to use an expression map triggering KS in Berlin too?


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## Nathanael Iversen

prodigalson said:


> I haven't tried Berlin yet but in capsule you're not limited to shorts and longs being on separate patches so I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to use an expression map triggering KS in Berlin too?



Berlin Strings Multi-Articulation 2.0 patches do not mix shorts and longs. The dynamics are yet another patch. The other option is the single articulation patches, but that is even worse for Dorico as each is on a separate channel. The BWW instruments mix short and long, but the strings don't. I could set up my Vienna Dimension strings for Dorico, but honestly, being able to only deal with a single expression lane at a time is just clunky. I'll use it for notation where it is great, and use Cubase for MIDI for the time being.


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## prodigalson

Nathanael Iversen said:


> Berlin Strings Multi-Articulation 2.0 patches do not mix shorts and longs. The dynamics are yet another patch. The other option is the single articulation patches, but that is even worse for Dorico as each is on a separate channel. The BWW instruments mix short and long, but the strings don't. I could set up my Vienna Dimension strings for Dorico, but honestly, being able to only deal with a single expression lane at a time is just clunky. I'll use it for notation where it is great, and use Cubase for MIDI for the time being.



Ah yes, I didn’t realize the latest version of BS had that limitation. That would def rule it out for use in dorico as of now.


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## Maximvs

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> There's no lag with Noteperformer like there is with Sibelius?
> (recording in real time)


What do you mean "there is no lag with NotePerformer (recording in real time)"... I have been using NP in Sibelius for a long time and what frustrates me the most is the impossibility to record in real time due to the 2-3" delay that NP requires to read and interpret the music... Is this the same in Dorico or recording in real time it's actually possible now in Dorico with NP? Many thanks for any feedback, Max T.


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## joebaggan

For me using Dorico with NP is at least a 1 sec delay. The version of NP for Dorico is in Beta so there are some other issues with it, e.g. problems with playback if multiple articulations on a note etc.


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## jeremiahpena

I recorded a quick video showing how it works for me (apologies for the audio only on the right side):


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## ptram

Nathanael Iversen said:


> Berlin Strings Multi-Articulation 2.0 patches do not mix shorts and longs. The dynamics are yet another patch.


I wonder if you can create your own banks from articulations in different instruments. This should be doable both in Kontakt alone, and with the help of Mind Control from Orange Tree Samples.

Paolo


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## Maximvs

jeremiahpena said:


> I recorded a quick video showing how it works for me (apologies for the audio only on the right side):



Thanks Jeremia for your kindness in making this video... The issue I see when using NP even in Dorico is when you need to record while an existing music passage plays back, like for example when recording a clarinet while existing instruments play back. I found this not possible to do in Sibelius when using NP. I have asked many times the NP developer to include an on/off switch to temporary disable the latency, but I have been told that this is not possible to do and implement...


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## jeremiahpena

Massimo said:


> Thanks Jeremia for your kindness in making this video... The issue I see when using NP even in Dorico is when you need to record while an existing music passage plays back, like for example when recording a clarinet while existing instruments play back. I found this not possible to do in Sibelius when using NP. I have asked many times the NP developer to include an on/off switch to temporary disable the latency, but I have been told that this is not possible to do and implement...



That isn't happening for me in Dorico. There's no latency when recording alongside other instruments.


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## Maximvs

jeremiahpena said:


> That isn't happening for me in Dorico. There's no latency when recording alongside other instruments.



Thanks a lot Jeremia for posting this other demonstration... So something has definitely been changed! Cheers, Max


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## mventura

shnootre said:


> As far as I can tell, you still can't edit key velocity for individual notes - is that right? I also don't see that swing feel in playback has been implemented. I know they'll get there - but those are the changes I need to really consider switching from 26 years of Finale...


 Any updates on editing note velocity? I still use Notion and love/need this feature as I need it to trigger articulations with some VIs.


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## Gerbil

Massimo said:


> Thanks Jeremia for your kindness in making this video... The issue I see when using NP even in Dorico is when you need to record while an existing music passage plays back, like for example when recording a clarinet while existing instruments play back. I found this not possible to do in Sibelius when using NP. I have asked many times the NP developer to include an on/off switch to temporary disable the latency, but I have been told that this is not possible to do and implement...



It's a shame Sibelius isn't customisable like Reaper otherwise you could have a hot key that temporarily switches noteperformer with a generic piano sound for realtime no-latency recording, enabling it again when you're done.


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## Maximvs

Gerbil said:


> It's a shame Sibelius isn't customisable like Reaper otherwise you could have a hot key that temporarily switches noteperformer with a generic piano sound for realtime no-latency recording, enabling it again when you're done.


Sibelius is what it is, we need to accept it and if we find something better just have the courage to move on, I am very close to do exactly that... I have noticed that with Dorico and NP the recording latency is no longer an issue, which is great. Cheers. Mx


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## Gerbil

Massimo said:


> Sibelius is what it is, we need to accept it and if we find something better just have the courage to move on, I am very close to do exactly that... I have noticed that with Dorico and NP the recording latency is no longer an issue, which is great. Cheers. Mx



Yes, I'm of the same mind. Fortunately, I have a subscription with Sibelius that runs out in a couple of months so I may make the switch then.

I have to say that Dorico looks fantastic.


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## Maximvs

Gerbil said:


> Yes, I'm of the same mind. Fortunately, I have a subscription with Sibelius that runs out in a couple of months so I may make the switch then.
> 
> I have to say that Dorico looks fantastic.


I also think that Dorico score output look is great!


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