# ratio dry / wet in a send effect (reverb)



## darkneo57 (Jul 29, 2019)

Hi, I am a beginner in computer music, I just watch several tutorials on the internet about the reverb in send effect but there are some things that I still can not understand.

I just created a cxanal FX for my reverb (Space 2 east west), I put it in send on my violin track. For the reverb I put the dry at 0 and the wet at 100%. In fact I do not understand how the send level fader acts on the dry / wet ratio. If I set the fader to 0 the sound will be 100% dry, but if I put it 100, I do not think it's 100% wet, but when I do it the sound is much stronger, I also noticed that I could adjust the volume of the reverb.

Before I had created an FX channel with an insert reverb for my string section, but I had routed all the instrument outputs directly to my reverb, so I could adjust the dry / wet ratio as I wanted.

I am a little lost, if someone could help me it would be nice. Thanks for your help.


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## Divico (Jul 29, 2019)

Having the send at 0 will not give you 100%wet because the track sends a dry version to the copy. The normal approach is to habe wet 100% on the fx channel. Then as youbsaid the send level determines the wetness of the sognal. If the reverb effect doesnt change the volume a send level of 0 would mean 50% wet.


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## shawnsingh (Jul 29, 2019)

darkneo57 said:


> In fact I do not understand how the send level fader acts on the dry / wet ratio. If I set the fader to 0 the sound will be 100% dry, but if I put it 100, I do not think it's 100% wet, but when I do it the sound is much stronger, I also noticed that I could adjust the volume of the reverb.



The track can output the audio to multiple destinations. The main destination will be whatever bus or main output the track is connected to. Each send is like another destination for the same audio.

So it's like you're sending the same (dry) audio to both places - the main output destination and the FX channel. So by setting your FX channel to 100% wet, you can control the amount of dry (main fader for your track) and wet (the send level of the track). Or equivalently, and more simple - changing the level of the send will change the ratio between dry and wet because you'll be changing the amount of wet.


If you adjust the level of the FX reverb track itself, that would be like you're increasing the wet mix for ALL tracks that may be sending a dry copy to that FX track.


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## darkneo57 (Jul 29, 2019)

thank you very much shawnsingh, I perfectly understood everything you explained to me. I still have few questions, please.

1) not to mention generally a section of instrument (e.g. strings section) will be sent as send to the channel fx reverb, and that the send will be set separately. Concerning the dry / wet ratio, is it the same thing to increase the send fader as to increase the volume fader of the FX ?
What is the "dry wet unit", is it a ratio of volume in db between the dry and the wet, or is it a ratio between the "information" of the dry and wet signals.

2) the name of the volume fader of the FX track is "return", right?

thank you so much


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## Divico (Jul 29, 2019)

darkneo57 said:


> thank you very much shawnsingh, I perfectly understood everything you explained to me. I still have few questions, please.
> 
> 1) not to mention generally a section of instrument (e.g. strings section) will be sent as send to the channel fx reverb, and that the send will be set separately. Concerning the dry / wet ratio, is it the same thing to increase the send fader as to increase the volume fader of the FX ?
> What is the "dry wet unit", is it a ratio of volume in db between the dry and the wet, or is it a ratio between the "information" of the dry and wet signals.
> ...


1) since reverbs are not depending on the input volume Yes. If youd put a compressor or saturator there it wouldnt. The send volume determines the level before the fx chain on the track. hence those non linear fx behave differently depending on the send level.
2)The term return is imo more useful in analog realms. Think of a mixing console. You send a track to an outboard fx. The result you stear back to a new channel on your console: Your fx return. In the box imo you can see the fx channel as return.


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## shawnsingh (Jul 29, 2019)

darkneo57 said:


> Concerning the dry / wet ratio, is it the same thing to increase the send fader as to increase the volume fader of the FX ?



It is the same thing, but only if you only have one track sending to the FX. If you have multiple tracks sending to the FX, the using the FX fader will be like increasing the wet signal for all the tracks that were sending. Hope that makes sense?



darkneo57 said:


> What is the "dry wet unit", is it a ratio of volume in db between the dry and the wet, or is it a ratio between the "information" of the dry and wet signals.



I think different scenarios will have different math and different definition of wet/dry ratio. You could think of it in dB but there may be details like a gain inside the reverb plug-in that affect the levels if we and dry.

My suggestion is to not try to think of ratio. Instead just think of it as adjusting the level of two different tracks. And you'll become more comfortable over time about what levels are good for reverb.



darkneo57 said:


> 2) the name of the volume fader of the FX track is "return", right?



I don't know which DAW you are using, so I don't know for sure. But probably not. "Return" is usually a concept for insert FX, not send FX. Insert FX will output audio that "returns" to the audio track where the insert is placed. Send FX will usually be routed to a bus or master output.

Just noticed Divico's answer, great points to consider.


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## darkneo57 (Jul 30, 2019)

thank to you two, i think i got it, have a nice week


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## darkneo57 (Aug 17, 2019)

Hi, I was on vacation, I just returned to my music, I have other questions, if someone could help me it would be nice, thank you. Thank you very much for your patient and your kindness.

1. on my violin track for example, if I set the send fader to - ∞ (the minimum), my signal will be 100% dry, right?

2. if i set the send fader to 0, the signal will be 50% dry 50% wet, is this correct?

3. by default in my DAW anyway, the send fader is at - 6, I guess it's a basic setting, where the signal is more dry than wet, is this correct?

4. when my send fader is at - ∞, the signal is 100% dry (if I'm not mistaken), so the sum of the two signals (dry & wet) is the basic signal volume. If I start to push the send fader to the right to add wet, the total volume of the two signals (dry & wet) will increase, finally in my main output the violin will be louder, is this correct? the more I add wet and the more the violin will be loud compared to the basic signal 100% dry, right?

5. To adjust the amount of dry, I use the volume fader of my violin track. To adjust the amount of wet, I adjust with the send fader of my violin. To adjust the wet, I can also use the volume fader of my FX channel reverb, but this will also affect all the sent signals that have been routed to the FX channel. Is it correct?


6. The dry / wet ratio adjusts the depth of the instruments in the space. (not to mention the predelay). The more the sound is wet, the further it is, the more dry the sound, the closer it is. That's why for orchestral music, there is often one reverb FX channel per section. right?

thank you a thousand times, I hope someone will answer me because it's really complicated. Good weekend, and good luck for the music.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 17, 2019)

darkneo57 said:


> if I set the send fader to - ∞ (the minimum), my signal will be 100% dry, right?



Think of sends on channel strips as separate mixes going to different destinations from your main stereo mix. These submixes can go wherever you need them - reverb in your case, or you could make a separate headphone mix, or many other things.

If you turn the send off (-∞) on a channel, you're not sending anything to that submix.

The reverb processor itself also has a wet/dry mix. There are exceptions, but if you're just using it inside your DAW, you'd normally leave it 100% wet (because the dry signals are on your channel strips). The wet/dry mix in the reverb would be useful if you had it inserted on a musician's headphone monitor mix, for example, so only that person would hear it.

Sends in channel stips can either be pre- or post-fader. If you want the balance between reverb and the dry signal to stay the same when you slide your fader, you make it post-fader.


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## darkneo57 (Aug 18, 2019)

thanks for you reply, , yes on my channel Fx i set my reverb 100 % wet, and i'm in post fader. Please, could you reply my questions 2. 3. 4. 5. 6 .. thank you 

1. on my violin track for example, if I set the send fader to - ∞ (the minimum), my signal will be 100% dry, right?

2. if i set the send fader to 0, the signal will be 50% dry 50% wet, is this correct?

3. by default in my DAW anyway, the send fader is at - 6, I guess it's a basic setting, where the signal is more dry than wet, is this correct?

4. when my send fader is at - ∞, the signal is 100% dry (if I'm not mistaken), so the sum of the two signals (dry & wet) is the basic signal volume. If I start to push the send fader to the right to add wet, the total volume of the two signals (dry & wet) will increase, finally in my main output the violin will be louder, is this correct? the more I add wet and the more the violin will be loud compared to the basic signal 100% dry, right?

5. To adjust the amount of dry, I use the volume fader of my violin track. To adjust the amount of wet, I adjust with the send fader of my violin. To adjust the wet, I can also use the volume fader of my FX channel reverb, but this will also affect all the sent signals that have been routed to the FX channel. Is it correct?


6. The dry / wet ratio adjusts the depth of the instruments in the space. (not to mention the predelay). The more the sound is wet, the further it is, the more dry the sound, the closer it is. That's why for orchestral music, there is often one reverb FX channel per section. right?


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## shawnsingh (Aug 18, 2019)

darkneo57 said:


> 2. if i set the send fader to 0, the signal will be 50% dry 50% wet, is this correct?



So I think you're trying too hard to think about wet/dry mix as some kind of x% wet and y% dry. It doesn't work because wet/dry % is not enough information.

Concrete example. A violin dry signal, fader at 0 dB, with a 0 dB send to reverb FX. Person A could say that's a 50% wet, 50% dry mix, because you're sending the same amount of dry signal into the reverb. But then let's say the reverb FX channel is actually set to -6 dB (50% volume). Then that means the dry channel is at full volume and the reverb signal is at half volume of the reverb signal going to the output. So Person B would call that a 33% wet, 67% dry mix. But really there are many other places that volume can be changed, too. The reverb plugin may have an input gain or an output gain knob. If Person C changes that gain knob inside the reverb plugin, the wet/dry mix has definitely changed, but there wouldn't be an easy way to describe it as "X% wet, X% dry". Even more blatant, what if a different reverb algorithm itself has a different natural level of output? then the real wet/dry mix for Reverb A would be different than for Reverb B, even though they would be labeled with the same % wet/dry?

Bottom line: it's better to think of the wet signal as a separate audio signal that you combine at the end, and you can adjust the send level to change the volume of the wet signal relative to the dry one.




darkneo57 said:


> 3. by default in my DAW anyway, the send fader is at - 6, I guess it's a basic setting, where the signal is more dry than wet, is this correct?



"more dry than wet" is the same problem as X% wet, Y% dry. It's not really meaningful to compare the wet and dry levels like that. It's much more natural to hear it and say "I wish the wet signal were a bit louder compared to the dry signal". In that case you would increase the amount of send, or adjust the level of the reverb FX channel.



darkneo57 said:


> 4. when my send fader is at - ∞, the signal is 100% dry (if I'm not mistaken), so the sum of the two signals (dry & wet) is the basic signal volume. If I start to push the send fader to the right to add wet, the total volume of the two signals (dry & wet) will increase, finally in my main output the violin will be louder, is this correct? the more I add wet and the more the violin will be loud compared to the basic signal 100% dry, right?



This is technically true, yes. But often times the volume difference is not that significant, just depends on the reverb and the scenario. I've had some situations where I needed to re-adjust the level after reverb, but other situations it didn't matter. If you're concerned about it, it is totally OK to readjust levels after you have set send levels to the reverb =)



darkneo57 said:


> 5. To adjust the amount of dry, I use the volume fader of my violin track. To adjust the amount of wet, I adjust with the send fader of my violin. To adjust the wet, I can also use the volume fader of my FX channel reverb, but this will also affect all the sent signals that have been routed to the FX channel. Is it correct?



This is correct if you are using a "pre-fader send". i.e. the send level is determined before considering the volume change caused by the track's fader.

But actually I think "post-fader send" is more common, and I think most people may find it more natural. With post-fader send, the track fader adjusts the volume of the track and all of its send FX together. And you can adjust the relative amount of FX by adjusting send levels.



darkneo57 said:


> 6. The dry / wet ratio adjusts the depth of the instruments in the space. (not to mention the predelay). The more the sound is wet, the further it is, the more dry the sound, the closer it is. That's why for orchestral music, there is often one reverb FX channel per section. right?



Not quite, but close. It's true, more wet mix can make things sound more distant, but it depends on the reverb algorithm. There is more to the "distance" effect than just wet/dry mix. The way that echoes are distributed will change depending on where the instrument is located - front center of the stage, back, side of the stage, etc. People use different reverbs to represent these differences as well, and people also use different reverbs because generally the sound is different and it's useful to have several of them waiting to be used in a project.


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## darkneo57 (Aug 18, 2019)

really thank you very much Shawnsingh, your answers and your advices really helped me to understand, I'll put it into practice. Another little bonus question if possible



> I've had some situations where I needed to re-adjust the level after reverb, but other situations it didn't matter. If you're concerned about it, it is totally OK to readjust levels after you have set send levels to the reverb =)



how to readjust the volume after the reverb?

I hope someday I can help people like you do, especially people who start computer music. In any case it's not for tomorrow.  thank you


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 18, 2019)

darkneo57 said:


> thanks for you reply, , yes on my channel Fx i set my reverb 100 % wet, and i'm in post fader. Please, could you reply my questions 2. 3. 4. 5. 6 .. thank you



The answers are contained in what I wrote. I think if you try to understand the bigger picture, this will all fall into place. It actually isn't complicated - as shawnsingh says, it seems like you're overthinking it. 



> 1. on my violin track for example, if I set the send fader to - ∞ (the minimum), my signal will be 100% dry, right?
> 
> 2. if i set the send fader to 0, the signal will be 50% dry 50% wet, is this correct?




Yes, but it doesn't matter what the ratio is or what the basic level is or anything else. You just have to listen and adjust the amount of reverb you want.

The fun part comes after that - tweaking the reverb parameters, etc.



> 6. The dry / wet ratio adjusts the depth of the instruments in the space. (not to mention the predelay). The more the sound is wet, the further it is, the more dry the sound, the closer it is. That's why for orchestral music, there is often one reverb FX channel per section. right?



Yah. You might do a search for Beat Kauffman's tutorials on this site.



Search results for query: tutorial


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## darkneo57 (Aug 18, 2019)

thank you Nick Batzdorf, have a nice sunday !


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## JohnG (Aug 18, 2019)

darkneo57 said:


> The more the sound is wet, the further it is, the more dry the sound, the closer it is.



This is "sort of" true, but remember that the proximity to the instrument of the microphone that originally recorded the sample has a lot to do with how far away the sound feels to the listener.


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