# Is "interesting" a euphemism for "sucks"?



## Dear Villain (Jul 12, 2021)

I've noted over the years, when someone says, "interesting piece" or something similar, it inevitably precedes a lot of negative commentary. I've heard the word thrown around as a the only comment, as in, "interesting," which also feels like a subtle indication that the person either doesn't like the music, or maybe doesn't get it.

Has interesting become the backhanded compliment of choice?


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## jbuhler (Jul 12, 2021)

That’s long been the case in academia, where saying “that’s interesting” often means the opposite, namely that it’s not. But that is not the only or even dominant usage in academia. Indeed “interesting” usually implies there’s more to be said. Sometimes “interesting” means something more like I’m not quite sure what I think but there’s definitely something worth contemplating in this, but I need more before I know what I think. You can still take that as backhanded or as the person not getting it. But it might be it’s taking time to register. Then too sometimes interesting means something worth talking about rather than something to pass immediate judgment on, Where for whatever reason saying that’s good or that’s bad seem beside the point. There’s an implicit “but” with this usage and the seeming negative comment that follows may not in fact be that at all but only a discursive challenge that seeks to spark discussion.


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## puremusic (Jul 12, 2021)




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## JohnG (Jul 12, 2021)

from the immortal "Hollywood Dictionary"

COMMON PHRASES:

You can trust me = You must be new

It needs some polishing = Change everything

It shows promise = It stinks rotten

It needs some fine tuning = Change everything

I'd like some input = I want total control

It needs some honing = Change everything

Call me back next week = Stay out of my life

It needs some tightening = Change everything

Try and punch it up = I have no idea what I want

It needs some streamlining = Change everything


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## Dear Villain (Jul 12, 2021)

Hmmm, some interesting responses.


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## Rasoul Morteza (Jul 12, 2021)

Still better than this look you sometimes get:


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## JDK88 (Jul 12, 2021)

When I use it, it's more like "I'm impressed by your effort, but it's not for me."


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## Trash Panda (Jul 12, 2021)

Dear Villain said:


> I've noted over the years, when someone says, "interesting piece" or something similar, it inevitably precedes a lot of negative commentary. I've heard the word thrown around as a the only comment, as in, "interesting," which also feels like a subtle indication that the person either doesn't like the music, or maybe doesn't get it.
> 
> Has interesting become the backhanded compliment of choice?


Interesting question and topic.


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## Polkasound (Jul 12, 2021)

I remember once a talk show host revealed that the worst thing a guest can do in an interview is describe something as "interesting" because it says absolutely nothing and leaves the host with no conversation to build on.

When it comes to works of art such as music, "interesting" is undoubtedly the most ambiguous adjective there is, so I read it as neither praise nor criticism. I really like jbuhler's explanation of, _"...there’s definitely something worth contemplating in this, but I need more before I know what I think."_


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## CT (Jul 12, 2021)

When I describe music as "interesting," I think I usually mean that it's... interesting. There's something curious about it that I want to look closer at, but it doesn't make much of a strong aesthetic or emotional impression beyond that.


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## Nico5 (Jul 12, 2021)

I'm having flashbacks to the legendary musical battle-cry of the 80s: "Disco is interesting!"


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## ryans (Jul 12, 2021)

Mike T said:


> When I describe music as "interesting," I think I usually mean that it's... interesting. There's something curious about it that I want to look closer at, but it doesn't make much of a strong aesthetic or emotional impression beyond that.


I use "interesting" pretty much the same way.

If I really hate something I'll say "fascinating"


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## bill5 (Jul 12, 2021)

Curious. If I really hate something, I'll say I hate it (or say nothing, esp if in the presence of the person who created it). If I find it interesting, I'll say it's interesting. Weird that way. I abhor phoniness and these silly games. Say what you mean or stfu.


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## bill5 (Jul 12, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> I'm having flashbacks to the legendary musical battle-cry of the 80s: "Disco is interesting!"


I hated disco as a kid. Because I was "serious" about music.  I love it now. And frankly musically, for all its flaws, it beats the living hell out of the vast majority of stuff coming out now IMO.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 12, 2021)

Actually the fact that words are so frequently misused so that one wouldn't have to be forward with their thoughts feels somewhat disheartening. I like to be authentic and precise with my language, it's kind of a thing I believe in. If I say "interesting", it'll mean that there's something about the subject that wakes my interest. That's an unreservedly positive thing.

But in the end you can't stop people from projecting their own crap onto others.


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## wahey73 (Jul 12, 2021)

Mike T said:


> When I describe music as "interesting," I think I usually mean that it's... interesting. There's something curious about it that I want to look closer at, but it doesn't make much of a strong aesthetic or emotional impression beyond that.


Even me I use "interesting" if someting wakens my curiosity but didn't really hit me on an emotional level. Maybe it depends even on the fact if you are mother language or not. Many expressions are used differently in various languages. Then of course it even makes a difference in spoken or written language. One has to be even so careful what to write once in a while as the facial expression and tone of the voice are missing if writing and written words can me misunderstood so easily...


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## Nico5 (Jul 13, 2021)

bill5 said:


> I hated disco as a kid. Because I was "serious" about music.  I love it now. And frankly musically, for all its flaws, it beats the living hell out of the vast majority of stuff coming out now IMO.


I feel similarly to you. However, I think old music seems better now, is because generally only the best songs from an era survive to be remembered and played in later decades. And I wouldn't be surprised, if in a couple of decades there will be some songs from now that will be considered great.


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## Crowe (Jul 13, 2021)

I'm with demonboy on this one; I like my words to mean something. If something isn't at least 'interesting' it's generally not worth my time.


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## Nico5 (Jul 13, 2021)

wahey73 said:


> Maybe it depends even on the fact if you are mother language or not.


I'm not sure if there even is a single "correct" answer to the original question across time and geography even within the English language. Language is a living thing that evolves over time and over different cultural and other contexts. Even here in a relatively niche forum with a rather narrow audience focus, we are from many different backgrounds and environments.

And in addition to our individual differences along the "polite lying" vs. "blunt honesty" axis, there are cultural differences of what's considered polite and what's considered blunt and hurtful.


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## pinki (Jul 13, 2021)

This thread is amazing.


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## el-bo (Jul 13, 2021)

It can mean that. 

But even music that I don't like can pique my interest. In such a case, "interesting" is perfectly valid.


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## CeDur (Jul 13, 2021)

When I started working in corporate environment with English as the main language, it took me a week or two to realize that 'nice', 'amazing' etc. are being used to comment almost everything and have no actual meaning.
" - I've finally resolved that critical issue.
- Niiiceeee!"
or
" - I've bought a new pair of socks yesterday.
- Amazing!"

I find it fake and it irritates me personally, but I get that huge part of it comes from cultural difference. The less sugar-coated, direct communication (which I prefer) can hurt people who are not used to it and can be seen as aggressive. There are a few studies covering the topic. I remember the results showing that for example, on average, people form Eastern Europe tend to be more emotional and less 'nice' with their words (which is not always better in business world  ) compared to US citizens.


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## cygnusdei (Jul 13, 2021)

I recently rewatched some Leave it to Beaver episodes, it's interesting (ha!) how Ward uses _fine_ as a compliment, as in "That's fine, Beaver." I don't know if it's just him or there has been a shift in connotation, but fine now means more like _adequate_, as in "a perfectly fine performance" or "I'm doing fine, thanks."

What I'm getting at is words can mean any number of things.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 13, 2021)

This is an interesting thread.


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## Dear Villain (Jul 13, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> This is an interesting thread.


You can always tell who didn't read the thread before posting


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 13, 2021)

Yeah, that was a slow pitch. Someone must have beaten me to it.


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## Wally Garten (Jul 13, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> But it might be it’s taking time to register. Then too sometimes interesting means something worth talking about rather than something to pass immediate judgment on, Where for whatever reason saying that’s good or that’s bad seem beside the point.


These are the ways I use it, I think.


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## Double Helix (Jul 13, 2021)

cygnusdei said:


> . . .I don't know if it's just him or there has been a shift in connotation, *but fine now means more like adequate*, as in "a perfectly fine performance" or "I'm doing fine, thanks."


When wife/gf/significant other asks how this new outfit looks, do NOT say that it "looks fine"--just don't.
Better to say that it "looks interesting"


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## kgdrum (Jul 13, 2021)

maybe it’s my simple mind but I often use the word: interesting and to me it means interesting.
Typically thought provoking,intriguing certainly not boring or disliked


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## TGV (Jul 13, 2021)

Not too long ago, stackoverflow had hired a new VP for client communication, or something similar. That used to mean Vice-President, but now is a salary-saving euphemism for medior management. She was heralded as a "veteran story-teller", which is a lot of empty words, if you ask me. But the phrasing that really got to me was the level of interest they had in this new "acquisition". They were, and I quote, "beyond excited" to inform us about this. In what perverted universe does one have to live to get even excited about a new employee, let alone be exalted beyond that, I hope to never understand. Anyway, enough about transparent attempts at stock-price manipulation via overblown propaganda.

When I use the word "interesting", it means I found it interesting. The music piqued my interest, was worthy of my attention, appealed to me, had a fascinating aspect, engrossed and tantalized me, held some allure, intrigued me, amused me at an intellectual level, whetted my appetite, riveted, floated my boat and tickled my fancy. The piece lit my fire. It was an interesting track.


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## b_elliott (Jul 13, 2021)

Recently while looking at an album listing which has the one song of Lana Del Rey's I've ever heard 'Ultraviolence':

LP listing: "9. Fucked My Way to the Top" (Auerbach)...

Me: "Interesting."

I now have heard exactly two songs by this artist! Sorry, if this is offensive, but I legit thought that.


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## Bman70 (Jul 13, 2021)

All this (over?) emphasis on words themselves may be, in part, an artifact of online communication. Without body or facial language, it's natural to strain sometimes to interpret between the lines, and glean more from a message than perhaps is even intended by the writer. 

In real life, for instance, I don't understand how CeDur is irritated by the common use of words like "nice" or "amazing!" It's fairly easy to tell by someone's tone of voice, demeanor, eye contact, and vocal inflection what their real meaning is... whether it is indeed a trivial comment, a verbal nod or wink, so to speak, or an attempt to connect with more substance. 

You walk into work, for instance, and say "I got Starbucks, losers!" And several people roar "Niiice!" "F---ing_ amazing_!" It's clear that those are just friendly greetings. Content isn't as important as verbal acknowledgement. But, if a colleague approaches your desk, looks over your shoulder at your work, and says "That's really nice..." Or, "Man, you did an amazing job." You know it's an actual compliment. I don't think the words suffer due to the immense flexibility available in interpersonal communication. The compliment, especially if accompanied by body language like sitting down, looking you in the eye, touching your shoulder, isn't diminished by the same words being used in other, more trivial contexts. However, online this is not the case.


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## cygnusdei (Jul 13, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> However, online this is not the case


But online you can do this


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## NoamL (Jul 13, 2021)

JohnG said:


> from the immortal "Hollywood Dictionary"
> 
> COMMON PHRASES:
> 
> ...



Hi JohnG, thanks for your post! I read it several times to absorb all the details. You've made a great effort here and I can tell you're on the right track and thinking artistically. Your post is overflowing with amazing creativity! Unfortunately, this isn't exactly what we were looking for. Some parts of your post were a little distracting, while others felt like they could have more energy. Keep on thinking outside the box! I think what we really need is a version of your post that's mostly like your first attempt, but jazzed up a bit more (I don't mean _jazz_ jazz, though!). So, you don't have to throw out everything you wrote the first time, and I hope you're not too crestfallen. Looking forward to reading version 2 of your post!


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## NoamL (Jul 13, 2021)

also, this will always be evergreen. The leaked music direction document from the guy who tried to create a trailer for the failed Fyre Festival:







_Hi All,


I hope this email finds everybody well this morning. It was a pleasure to meet yesterday— everything looks very strong and we’re excited to keep the momentum as we move through this process.


I know one outstanding question mark with regard to the video is music. I know that we touched on this a bit during our meeting yesterday, but wanted to provide further clarity on direction as I do know time is of the essence.


With regard to the brand piece, we’re all in agreement that an original composition is the way to go here. Would love to lock down a composer as soon as possible. I know you mentioned having a few shortlisted composers— would love to hear their work. Ideally, these individuals will have a strong theoretical background with a diverse knowledge of classical, popular and world music._ 


_As far as the musical direction for the brand piece is concerned, we really need to pushy the sonic boundary. The track should work at most points, synergistically with the visual composition; however, at key moments having the music and visual composition run in parallel to create moments of tension (to be sonically resolved) would strengthen the overall work as a whole. Although some of the inspirations below are quite global, I think we need to develop a track with mass appeal. When global music elements are leveraged properly, the bits of unfamiliarity perhaps enhance listener attention. Cohesiveness of the overall work is so important.


Elements and inspirations:_ 



_Use of odd-meters (i.e. compounded time signatures or something like 5/4 for more exploratory elements) with global music elements can help to inform the more “exploratory” bits of the work, where use of even meters (i.e. 4/4 straight ahead) can inform the more “emotional” segments. Use of strings in odd meter is quite effective_
_Use of reverberation during water sequences (i.e. how this is achieved in genres such as tropical house) adds a more “suspended” element to the work_
_Employing the use of modulation to transition in and out of various sections is good— also is the use of modulation in unexpected places (however this is cautioned as it can be quite jagged)_ 
_Instrumentation inspirations_
_Xylophone_
_Sudro (Brazilian drum)_ 
_Tiko drums (especially during more exploratory elements)_ 
_Tabla (which can be filtered)_
_Fretless bass (as opposed to p or jazz bass would add more of a ‘glue’ specially with the more global elements— I would listen to Bakithi Kumalo on Graceland as this is the ultimate exemplar)_ 

_String segments which fall somewhere in between_ _bright blue music_
 _[Torke] (during the build sections) and_ _Hassan learns French Cooking_

 _(this is perhaps overly exaggerated staccato; however, dialing back 25% on staccato will land in a nice place) is good_
_Use of extremely consonant key signatures (i.e. D or G) would really help to provide “resolution” after the more “exploratory” elements— likely the composer will need to back into this compositionally if they are using an odd key (however use of borrowed chords, parallel keys, secondary dominants) would prove to be helpful_ 
_Lack of repetition is quite important_ 
_Heavily cutting elements (i.e. how Kiiara’s_ _Gold_
 _is cut in the first 2-3 seconds) would also serve as good transition elements_
_Global inspiration_
_Rhythm of the Saints (specifically the track_ _Can’t Run But_

_)_ 
_Hamadoun Toure_
 _by Sidiki Diabete— this is the classic expression of West African Kora playing which is very combinative with Brazilian Sudro and more percussive elements such as marimba_ 
_Cool Papa Bell_


_Aevintyr_

_— the use of percussive elements and ambient accessorial elements in the extreme right or left of the sonic field // soundstage is great)_

_Classical inspiration_
_The string segments in_ _Glory_


 _if dialed back 30% would be right on point_


_Elements to avoid in the track include:_



_Regal (i.e. Hans Zimmer) style french horns— using them in the cut would be a bit “over the top” and stress “emotion” rather than imply and allow the listener to “feel”. Moreover, as french horn will likely be sampled, i’m not sure how “live” the horn lines will feel (even with sampling systems such as East/West, Vienna, Kontak, the lack of “breath” and variance with live recorded french horn will draw away from the incremental benefit of using phrases and themes. Caution against the use of english horn; however, bassoon would be a good use of woodwinds. Clarinet when combined with bass clarinet and bassoon are incredible. Would not use saxophone._ 
_Rock drums— sometimes in more modern composition, rock drums are contrasted with luscious string arrangements— while the final result is impactful, I do not think this method will add to the overall work_
_Overly luscious string elements— all too often, it comes across as sappy and too ‘gushy’. Instead, I would recommend something a bit more reserved (i.e. leveraging an arrangement such as 5 violins, 2 violas, 2 cello and contrabass)—I know the is difficult as we are recording strings in the box via same, as opposed to live; however, in string sampling plug-ins, often times, the composer can throttle up and down the lusciousness_ 
_Themes which are too “quest driven”— i.e. take inspiration from video games like Zelda and the like. While we do have “quest driven elements” (i.e. treasure hunt), we need to come across more as “exploratory” and less “driven on a mission.” This is where the use of unfamiliar global music elements (please see above) will come in. Most prominently, the use of xylophone (or other percussive melodic instruments) and traditional instruments from Brazil (Sudro) or West Africa (Kora) is great— luckily the global music plugins for Logic are quite amazing_ 
_Ending on a I chord or square endings (I think ending on some variance of a IV chord can be interesting, or a subtly pickety third contrasted with another compositional element as not to make things so “square”_ 

_Although the compositional elements to this work will be important, the sound design and mix are an equally important exercise! Proper placement of instruments in the sound field allowing for not such a straight ahead compressed mix is important. White space and breath is crucial!_ 


_The above was meant to provide some frame of reference from the composer. I do think the best tracks are ones which are briefed prior to the composer putting pen to paper— that being said, I really want them to inject their own style and methods— the above is just a collection of thoughts I’d find helpful if I was writing._ 


_With regard to the_ *hype track, Father Stretch My Hands Part I* _is the track of choice. Looking forward to information regarding music publishing or licensing. If you could recommend some other track (I think use of soul samples with a contemporary lyrical approach) it’d be great.


Thanks,


Grant

-----_


Lots of good advice here, when in doubt dial back 25% on the staccatos, and avoid regal (i.e. Hans Zimmer) horns.


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## Loïc D (Jul 13, 2021)

I usually mean what I’m saying too.
But I also know the etiquette of foreign countries and can read between the lines.

Japanese also have this kind of attitude.
ちおっと (chotto…) litterally “it’s a bit…” means “I’m not comfortable with this”
面白い (omoshiroi) litterally “interesting” is something you’d say when you are at best mildly concerned.


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## rudi (Jul 13, 2021)

Well, "interesting" worked out for the Eagles :


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## JohnG (Jul 13, 2021)

NoamL said:


> Hi JohnG, thanks for your post! I read it several times to absorb all the details. You've made a great effort here and I can tell you're on the right track and thinking artistically. Your post is overflowing with amazing creativity! Unfortunately, this isn't exactly what we were looking for. Some parts of your post were a little distracting, while others felt like they could have more energy. Keep on thinking outside the box! I think what we really need is a version of your post that's mostly like your first attempt, but jazzed up a bit more (I don't mean _jazz_ jazz, though!). So, you don't have to throw out everything you wrote the first time, and I hope you're not too crestfallen. Looking forward to reading version 2 of your post!


...and this ^^ ladies and gentlemen, is why someone saying "interesting" is the least of our problems.

Most directions we get are just thoughtless. It's not that they are wrong or even bad exactly, it's just that they leave you really on your own.

I've had directions like, "scary, but no TOO scary. But very scary. Not 'I'm gonna scream' scary, but still really scary. With a sense of humour."

In the end, it's a good idea to do what we think is right for the game / movie etc., while incorporating what we think the producer or director means. Obviously, it's _their_ project, but we're supposed to be active contributors, not just wallpaper salesmen.

[note: possibly the funniest part to me is "overflowing with amazing creativity," since I pasted it in from something someone sent me about 20 years ago]


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## ryans (Jul 13, 2021)

NoamL said:


> As far as the musical direction for the brand piece is concerned, we really need to pushy the sonic boundary. The track should work at most points, synergistically with the visual composition; however, at key moments having the music and visual composition run in parallel to create moments of tension (to be sonically resolved) would strengthen the overall work as a whole. Although some of the inspirations below are quite global, I think we need to develop a track with mass appeal. When global music elements are leveraged properly, the bits of unfamiliarity perhaps enhance listener attention. Cohesiveness of the overall work is so important.


That sounds like something straight out of the Contemporary Classical Composers Bullshit Generator: http://www.dominicirving.com/cccbsg/


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## Wally Garten (Jul 13, 2021)

NoamL said:


> Hi JohnG, thanks for your post! I read it several times to absorb all the details. You've made a great effort here and I can tell you're on the right track and thinking artistically. Your post is overflowing with amazing creativity! Unfortunately, this isn't exactly what we were looking for. Some parts of your post were a little distracting, while others felt like they could have more energy. Keep on thinking outside the box! I think what we really need is a version of your post that's mostly like your first attempt, but jazzed up a bit more (I don't mean _jazz_ jazz, though!). So, you don't have to throw out everything you wrote the first time, and I hope you're not too crestfallen. Looking forward to reading version 2 of your post!


Hi Noam,

Thanks for spearheading this, and I think you’ve really put your finger on what can be improved in the draft. I think a rewrite is exactly what’s needed. Unfortunately, we’re only budgeted for one draft — do you know whether John is willing to do a little extra work to really make this project a success without increasing the budget?


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## JohnG (Jul 13, 2021)

Wally Garten said:


> Hi Noam,
> 
> Thanks for spearheading this, and I think you’ve really put your finger on what can be improved in the draft. I think a rewrite is exactly what’s needed. Unfortunately, we’re only budgeted for one draft — do you know whether John is willing to do a little extra work to really make this project a success without increasing the budget?


After all, think of all the exposure? I mean, it's possible up to 20 people will see this on cable. At 3 AM. In a drunken stupor.

PSYCHED!


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## Rich4747 (Jul 13, 2021)

A point of interest is good. I may not like it or understand it now but its interesting and that is something and something is better then nothing. If a fool tells me something is spectacular ok but if someone I respect tells me its Interesting now that means something.


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## BlackDorito (Jul 13, 2021)

wahey73 said:


> Even me I use "interesting" if someting wakens my curiosity but didn't really hit me on an emotional level.


I think this response, similar to @Mike T and @JDK88, is *for sure fabulous*, but perhaps *needs some honing*. Protocol-wise on VI-C, if we have the impression that a track exhibits admirable craft, but it doesn't move us emotionally, should we respond to it? If we feel, for one reason or another, compelled to respond, should we avoid "interesting" and give the author something more?


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## cygnusdei (Jul 13, 2021)

BlackDorito said:


> should we avoid "interesting" and give the author something more?


I agree, call it what it is: it sucks!


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## wahey73 (Jul 14, 2021)

BlackDorito said:


> I think this response, similar to @Mike T and @JDK88, is *for sure fabulous*, but perhaps *needs some honing*. Protocol-wise on VI-C, if we have the impression that a track exhibits admirable craft, but it doesn't move us emotionally, should we respond to it? If we feel, for one reason or another, compelled to respond, should we avoid "interesting" and give the author something more?


Interesting point  But to remain serious,You are right: if we feel compelled to respond we should take the time to make a detailed comment that might lead to a constructive conversation


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## MartinH. (Jul 19, 2021)

puremusic said:


>



As a German who has worked for over 10 years with American clients, this had me questioning a decade of "positive" feedback. :(


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## cygnusdei (Jul 19, 2021)

If you ever posted stuff, I think you know that even if the person reviewing your work doesn't say anything useful, he's already done you a favor by bumping up the thread.


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## José Herring (Jul 19, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> As a German who has worked for over 10 years with American clients, this had me questioning a decade of "positive" feedback. :(


When I was in college I interned at a commercial jingle company. The owner always made the statement that the job isn't fully yours until the last check clears. I always kept that in mind. I've expanded that over the years to once the final check clears wait for the release. If you're music is still in there then they liked it well enough no matter what abuse you suffered to get there.


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