# Heavyocity Symphonic Destruction Rescore Competition!



## Leslie Fuller (Nov 5, 2021)

Another competition to get our teeth into!

Heavyocity have just announced a free to enter competition to rescore their Symphonic Destruction Trailer!


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## pranic (Nov 6, 2021)

This has a heft of a grand prize behind it. The trailer is also pretty dynamic, so should be fun to get lost in the DAW on this one.


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## John Judd (Nov 16, 2021)

I decided to throw down on this one!


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## pranic (Nov 17, 2021)

John Judd said:


> I decided to throw down on this one!



Nicely done, John. That's nothing if not epic! Great transitions between sections!


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## John Judd (Nov 17, 2021)

pranic said:


> Nicely done, John. That's nothing if not epic! Great transitions between sections!


Thanks Andrew. That’s kind of you.


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## Taron (Nov 18, 2021)

What a nice one to play with! Good job on this, @John Judd !

Took me a few days, really, because it has gotten oddly complex, but here's what I've got thus far:


I've listened to some reviews on Symphonic Destruction and tried to stay within the realm of its content, more or less trying to simulate some of its traits, because I just don't have it, haha. However, I also tried to stick with orchestral instruments for almost everything, which was really fun.

Well, I hope, you like it.  (And, of course, I hope Heavyocity likes it A LOT, hahahahaha...ah well...)


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## blaggins (Nov 19, 2021)

I took a crack at this one too, probably spent the better part of a week on it all told.  

Funnily enough I had originally decided *not* to do this contest when I first heard about it (been entering a lot of them lately and feeling like I want to work on something just for myself)... but then I was noodling around with Symphonic Destruction and happened across a patch called "Across the Mountains". It kinda inspired the whole damn piece and I went with it. Even though I'm not actually sure that what I've done fits the video as well as it should, I had a hell of a lot of fun writing the track. 

The choirs are all Strezov, though I mainly just used the Wotan performance patch since I couldn't for the life of me get the syllable builder to work properly. It was skipping around like it was possessed and I got frustrated and gave up after Googling around for the issue didn't turn anything up, so I just left everything on the performance patch and let it choose random syllables for me. The guitar is Evolution Dracus which I freaking love, and the orchestra is all BBCSO. Drums are a mix and match Damage 2 and Spitfire stuff.

I'd love to hear any feedback if anyone is so inclined. I spent a long time trying to get the mix right (meaning getting it LOUD enough to sound epic but without compressing all the excitement out of it, not to mention getting things sounding clear which I continue to struggle with in all my mixes). I ended up with a hodgepodge of dynamic EQ moves in an attempt to tame resonances and prevent mid-range buildup. But I don't know, maybe it feels a little dry to me? In any case it's about the best I can do given my current skillset but I think overall it's less "epic" sounding than a lot of the other tracks that have been entered so far, (despite there being a giant chorus and a full size orchestra in it).

Anyway, for whatever it's worth, here it is:


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## Taron (Nov 20, 2021)

Hey @tpoots Isn't Strezov wonderful?! I haven't encountered any troubles with their syllable builder, but only briefly played with it anyway ("Kantabilum" on my SC) and I think, I just played the syllables to sync things.

However, initially I started mine with a boys choir, but after looking into the symphonic destruction library, I realized that it doesn't feature any choirs as far as I could tell and felt that it was kind of wrong to use them in a trailer for this library, you know. So I replaced it with some flutes, because those it does have.

Also, as far as the good reviews showed, symphonic destruction appears to boast some wonderful playable orchestral patches, making me wonder why you wouldn't reach for those instead? They're pretty awesome sounding and would naturally fit the bill perfectly for a trailer!? 
(...I just don't have it, so.... )

The guitar lead is cool, though. Could take its time before coming in and gets a bit much toward the end and sort of washes over things when the trailer tries to punctuate and especially put the stamps on it all to top things off at the end.

And, yeah, it's almost fascinating how dry it all sounds. I find it a quality of sorts, but then it also kind of should support the idea of being dry, which I would find the real challenge then. One massive power of having dryness is the sense of closeness, too, which then allows you to gain massive depth with elements that get more reverb and distance, but to orchestrate that properly means also to make sense of the nature of the sounds and their placement. You have these super dry spiccato strings like tiny insects in your left ear, which is a fun idea, but really weird, too. This way you almost instantly exclude these moments from any hope to get "epic". It's almost intimate in a surreal way. Like a little voice on your left shoulder, also squashing what certainly were a group of violin players into a single, raspy voice, throwing a moderate tantrum, hihi.

I would say: Do not be afraid of reverb! But if you are hesitant, put it on a bus and make sure the bus is either ducked or treated in such a way that it doesn't blur into the rest. This is partially an EQ matter, but also a stereo treatment, assuming most would watch/listen to it in stereo and not mono. And just make the tails as short, but also as long, as it takes to convey the space you imagine.

Overall, I think, you've done a really nice job with the kind of music style you are creating. Sounds like you know what you are really after, and that's a massive power to hold. I can't quite see this fit really with the subject of the trailer and- while there are a few deliberate timings to sense- they never quite seem to connect with the energy of what's visible, if you know what I mean. And you have some great energy in there, but thanks to the guitar, it sort of always hovers between 9 and 10 somehow, while the trailer goes from -2 to 11, really.

I've now made you read all of this (if you are still reading this) only to tell you that I know "jack-shit" about making trailers... ... ... ... ...but I'm practicing scoring lately by joining these competitions since SA's Stargirl challenge and I would've been thrilled, if anyone at all would've ever told me anything about what I'm doing, be it "wrong" or "right". So... I figured, why don't I be anyone for you then! 

I hope, you could do something with my observations or get something out of them. It's awesome fun and a fantastic vehicle to learn, taking part in these things. Apparently I'm quite hooked now.


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## blaggins (Nov 20, 2021)

Thanks for the listen and the very detailed feedback @Taron, that was kind of you to do and much appreciated!



Taron said:


> Hey @tpoots Isn't Strezov wonderful?! I haven't encountered any troubles with their syllable builder, but only briefly played with it anyway ("Kantabilum" on my SC) and I think, I just played the syllables to sync things.


Kantabilum is a lovely track, and I think you displayed a a very nice delicate use of the Strezov choirs. I enjoyed it.



Taron said:


> However, initially I started mine with a boys choir, but after looking into the symphonic destruction library, I realized that it doesn't feature any choirs as far as I could tell and felt that it was kind of wrong to use them in a trailer for this library, you know. So I replaced it with some flutes, because those it does have.
> 
> Also, as far as the good reviews showed, symphonic destruction appears to boast some wonderful playable orchestral patches, making me wonder why you wouldn't reach for those instead? They're pretty awesome sounding and would naturally fit the bill perfectly for a trailer!?
> (...I just don't have it, so.... )



Haha yes I totally agree. I had the same thought (that choir doesn't really "go" with the SD trailer) but I'll be damned if I could get the idea out of my head once I played a big fat chord with the Wotan patch and the mod wheel turned up all the way. So epic.



Taron said:


> The guitar lead is cool, though. Could take its time before coming in and gets a bit much toward the end and sort of washes over things when the trailer tries to punctuate and especially put the stamps on it all to top things off at the end.


Good feedback. When I was mixing I was afraid the guitar wasn't going to be "enough" and ended up adding more flourishes and bringing it more forward in the mix, but in the end I may have put a bit too much into it. I guess I've created more of a screaming guitar solo than a symphonic track... 



Taron said:


> And, yeah, it's almost fascinating how dry it all sounds. I find it a quality of sorts, but then it also kind of should support the idea of being dry, which I would find the real challenge then. One massive power of having dryness is the sense of closeness, too, which then allows you to gain massive depth with elements that get more reverb and distance, but to orchestrate that properly means also to make sense of the nature of the sounds and their placement. You have these super dry spiccato strings like tiny insects in your left ear, which is a fun idea, but really weird, too. This way you almost instantly exclude these moments from any hope to get "epic". It's almost intimate in a surreal way. Like a little voice on your left shoulder, also squashing what certainly were a group of violin players into a single, raspy voice, throwing a moderate tantrum, hihi.


"a single, raspy voice, throwing a moderate tantrum". Hahahah. Yup I see what you mean. I think this is yet another artifact of my trying to keep things clear. I did do quite a bit of panning to clear up space in the center and with those spiccatos I also pushed the close mics way up and reduced the room tone a lot to crisp them up. The effect is a little strange I do agree. Very likely that I took things too far in the quest for clarity.



Taron said:


> I would say: Do not be afraid of reverb! But if you are hesitant, put it on a bus and make sure the bus is either ducked or treated in such a way that it doesn't blur into the rest. This is partially an EQ matter, but also a stereo treatment, assuming most would watch/listen to it in stereo and not mono. And just make the tails as short, but also as long, as it takes to convey the space you imagine.


Lol, I was afraid of the reverb! It's very possibly an arrangement thing but I was fighting against the reverb making mud of the midrange (even after EQing it a fair bit). I'll admit to not really knowing how to properly balance early reflections and tail to get a sense of space but without making a mess.I am however trying to learn. I have my eyes on the Thinkspace mixing class with Jake Jackson.



Taron said:


> Overall, I think, you've done a really nice job with the kind of music style you are creating. Sounds like you know what you are really after, and that's a massive power to hold. I can't quite see this fit really with the subject of the trailer and- while there are a few deliberate timings to sense- they never quite seem to connect with the energy of what's visible, if you know what I mean. And you have some great energy in there, but thanks to the guitar, it sort of always hovers between 9 and 10 somehow, while the trailer goes from -2 to 11, really.


Yup definitely see what you mean, and thank you for the kind words. Despite the flaws I *am* mildly proud of the track since it represents an improvement for me personally. 



Taron said:


> I've now made you read all of this (if you are still reading this) only to tell you that I know "jack-shit" about making trailers... ... ... ... ...but I'm practicing scoring lately by joining these competitions since SA's Stargirl challenge and I would've been thrilled, if anyone at all would've ever told me anything about what I'm doing, be it "wrong" or "right". So... I figured, why don't I be anyone for you then!
> 
> I hope, you could do something with my observations or get something out of them. It's awesome fun and a fantastic vehicle to learn, taking part in these things. Apparently I'm quite hooked now.



Me too @Taron, mee too. Thanks for the detailed feedback! It was very helpful.


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## Taron (Nov 20, 2021)

You are very, very welcome, @tpoots .
Mixing can be so intimidating, especially when it comes to reverbs, because we think of them as some "effect", almost like it's this "thing" we add. But try to distance yourself from all such thoughts and let your mind fall back into the concept of "recreating reality". (Lot's of quotes, I know, haha, sorry)

What you are really trying to do is to recreate a real, believable space with the added benefit of idealizing it, so that it's not muddying up the rest. While you can and should make sure that resonances don't build up too much, most reverbs are tailored in such a way that they diffuse everything quite well. EQ will and does help you plenty, but it's also important to consider the pre-delay time to early reflections to control the distance of the source to the walls to the audience. Simply use logic along with feeling to estimate what makes the most sense, how fast does sound travel and how big is the space. That's why it's also quite important to create a kind of consistency, rather than smashing various different reverbs into a mix without care. And the biggest trick to me for the last few years has been "mid-side processing", where I would take the stereo-mid down to leave that to the instruments. There are cases where you want to do the opposite, depending on the distance you wish to convey. If things are far away enough, sound isn't all that different to pictures, you know. The width or size of an object in the distance is smaller than what's close, hence, if something is far enough away it wouldn't fill too much in stereo width.

Reverb is a wonderful topic to explore, but I wouldn't want to throw this thread into too exciting a tangent, woops. 

Oh, the great many threads I would want to start here, hehehehe.... maybe one day. But I haven't even explore it all here, yet. Maybe this thread exists already under mixing/engineering ???


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## blaggins (Nov 20, 2021)

Taron said:


> Oh, the great many threads I would want to start here, hehehehe.... maybe one day. But I haven't even explore it all here, yet. Maybe this thread exists already under mixing/engineering ???


Yeah, there are actually lots of wonderful threads on reverb on vi-control, I've even started a few myself, but it's one thing to read about things to learn, and quite another to put the learning into practice (as I have discovered)


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## Taron (Nov 20, 2021)

Maybe by now I just know too much about handling plugins and such things, but what I find most important is to truly understand what this is all about. Many tutorials tend to go into details without reminding people of the truly fundamental thought-processes, you know, hints as to what to imagine in order to come to the right decisions. But then, I haven't even watched any tutorials on reverb, tssssss....just something I remember noticing back in the day when I was checking into mixing tutorials.

Anyway, I hope, I could inspire some thoughts in you and you gain more confidence in your experimentation with this stuff. Confidence in this stuff itself comes later then, hehehe. But it will come!


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## freecham (Nov 20, 2021)

Ouch, impressives entries ! I like how you all interpreted the video with different approaches ! Here mine :


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## blaggins (Nov 20, 2021)

Not bad @freecham!! I like the ominous tone. The strings during the section with that crackly flamey things was also very nice.


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## purplehamster (Nov 22, 2021)

Here's my take - just a mixmash of orchestral and hybrid sounds.


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## topijokinen (Nov 24, 2021)

Had a bit of fun and also rescored this. Of course had to make it MASSIVE! Would love to hear your thoughts!


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## OstrovskyiComposer (Nov 25, 2021)

Hi to everyone,
I'd love to share my work with you.


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## stixman (Nov 25, 2021)

Here is my entry...lots of fun.....great learning experiences doing these.


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## Baronvonheadless (Nov 25, 2021)

Well, a bit late in the game but threw my name in the hat!

This was a fun one! Cheers


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## Rory Sade (Nov 25, 2021)

Here's my entry. I've purposefully not let myself listen to anyone else's entries whilst putting mine together, but now that I'm finished I'll give your entries a listen! Good luck to all!


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## John Judd (Nov 26, 2021)

Rory Sade said:


> Here's my entry. I've purposefully not let myself listen to anyone else's entries whilst putting mine together, but now that I'm finished I'll give your entries a listen! Good luck to all!



Love the opening rhythms….and that synth riff is so nasty! That was fun to listen/watch!


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## Rory Sade (Nov 26, 2021)

John Judd said:


> Love the opening rhythms….and that synth riff is so nasty! That was fun to listen/watch!


Thank you! NI Monark synth. Makes a surprisingly good acid bass


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## NekujaK (Nov 26, 2021)

Threw my hat in the ring as well. Lots of great entries out there - good luck!


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## Rory Sade (Nov 26, 2021)

Hey, general question. I sent my submission email a moment ago because I just noticed that I have to do that (not just use the hashtag). The deadline for submission according to the website is 11:59:59 EST. 
IS THAT AM OR PM??
Sweating buckets over here.


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## NekujaK (Nov 26, 2021)

Rory Sade said:


> Hey, general question. I sent my submission email a moment ago because I just noticed that I have to do that (not just use the hashtag). The deadline for submission according to the website is 11:59:59 EST.
> IS THAT AM OR PM??
> Sweating buckets over here.


I assumed they meant PM, to indicate the very last minute of the 26th. But don't know for sure.
Hopefully, they'll accept your submission!


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## Rory Sade (Nov 26, 2021)

NekujaK said:


> I assumed they meant PM, to indicate the very last minute of the 26th. But don't know for sure.
> Hopefully, they'll accept your submission!


Ok, that was my assumption as well, haha. We'll see...


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## Xiheua (Nov 26, 2021)

Here's mine!


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## purplehamster (Nov 26, 2021)

Rory Sade said:


> Here's my entry. I've purposefully not let myself listen to anyone else's entries whilst putting mine together, but now that I'm finished I'll give your entries a listen! Good luck to all!



"_I'm here to kick ass and chew bubble gum_" music. Those 303s are delicious.


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## Mr Sakitumi (Nov 26, 2021)

With the time zone differences, I managed to start last night and get my entry in just in time before the EST deadline.
Good luck everyone!


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## mgaewsj (Mar 11, 2022)

definitely late to the party but given that learning trailer (re)scoring got me involved in recent weeks I gave a try to this too  
I used mostly SD plus just a bit of Damage 2 and a couple of Zebra patches


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