# Vst2 officially ending in cubase and dorico



## Dewdman42 (Jan 19, 2022)

It’s official:



https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/4409561018258?fbclid=IwAR0C626P2_1HBG3kgwCLBUiGJsSqR9etv_26wK-jiSZL7qSGq8JdU6H9pKs


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## Markrs (Jan 19, 2022)

Isn't SINE VST 2? Hopefully they they will update it. I wonder if this will put some people off a future update where VST 2 is disabled as I am sure many plugin providers will not updated to VST 3, especially if the plugin is no longer being supported.


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 19, 2022)

it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Can't say more than that now. Die hard cubase users will be unphased.

You can always use something like BlueCatAudio Patchworks to sub host VST2 plugins inside future Cubase, which they say could be 24 months away..which would be like version 12.5 or 13 I guess.


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## homie (Jan 19, 2022)

Bad news wherever you look.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 19, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Isn't SINE VST 2? Hopefully they they will update it. I wonder if this will put some people off a future update where VST 2 is disabled as I am sure many plugin providers will not updated to VST 3, especially if the plugin is no longer being supported.


Given how much of their audience is likely on Cubase (including their biggest tier A endorser JXL), they will have no choice but to update it. Cubase is like one of the the top 3 if not most used DAW out there. The plug-in manufacturers will adapt.


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## Aldunate (Jan 19, 2022)

You can manually enable them in Dorico 4. I'm using the Sine player there.


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## doctoremmet (Jan 19, 2022)

Could Unify be a solution? As a VST2 host?


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 19, 2022)

I'm not sure if Unify ships currently in VST3 form. I don't have access to my computer to check at the moment. if so, then yes. 

BlueCatAudio Patchworks can definitely do that.


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## Mr Greg G (Jan 19, 2022)

Do you guys know any VST3 wrapper so I can use my 32bits VST2 plugins with Jbridge into this wrapper?


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## doctoremmet (Jan 19, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> I'm not sure if Unify ships currently in VST3 form. I don't have access to my computer to check at the moment. if so, then yes.
> 
> BlueCatAudio Patchworks can definitely do that.


It does


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## Markrs (Jan 19, 2022)

Mr Greg G said:


> Do you guys know any VST3 wrapper so I can use my 32bits VST2 plugins with Jbridge into this wrapper?


Possibly Kushview Element

64 bit – architecture are supported. 32/64 bit bridging is possible with jBridge.






Element | Compare | Modular Audio Plugin Host | Kushview


Compare Element versions to help decide which is best for your workflow.



kushview.net


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## Blakus (Jan 19, 2022)

I don't really understand this - it just seems like an ultimatum for other developers more than anything, and a possible inconvenience to users.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 19, 2022)

Blakus said:


> I don't really understand this - it just seems like an ultimatum for other developers more than anything, and a possible inconvenience to users.


I think you understand it perfectly!


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## Jett Hitt (Jan 19, 2022)

Oh god, does this mean I’ll have to redownload the Berlin Mains when they update?

PS. And why in the world would a newish player like Sine be using VST2?


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 19, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> PS. And why in the world would a newish player like Sine be using VST2?




VST3 is much more difficult to design and code for compared to VST2 which is very simple and straight forward.


There are some problematic midi concerns with VST3, I don't know if that was a factor for sine or not, but "keyswitching" with CC's is in particular one area where VST3 is no bueno, FWIW.


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## d.healey (Jan 19, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> VST3 is much more difficult to design and code for compared to VST2 which is very simple and straight forward.


I assume SINE (like most modern audio apps) is using JUCE, in which case VST3 is just a checkbox away.


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## Mr Greg G (Jan 19, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Possibly Kushview Element
> 
> 64 bit – architecture are supported. 32/64 bit bridging is possible with jBridge.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I will definitely check this out tomorrow!


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## dunamisstudio (Jan 19, 2022)

ooooh, hopefully Native Instruments, Soundtoys and UVI can do some updates.


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 19, 2022)

d.healey said:


> I assume SINE (like most modern audio apps) is using JUCE, in which case VST3 is just a checkbox away.


I don't assume that. Does it look like a JUCE app? If that were the case I think they'd already be shipping a VST3.


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## d.healey (Jan 19, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Does it look like a JUCE app


A JUCE app can look however the developer chooses.


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 19, 2022)

I still see no reason to assume its JUCE. If so, like you said, they could have already provided VST3 with a simple checkbox. JUCE has pros and cons, not everyone is using JUCE. Also, a JUCE-produced VST3 plugin is not really a true VST3 plugin. Its a wrapped one. The guts of JUCE are using VST2 paradigm, and in fact some of the advanced features of VST3 that would be worth considering such as multi midi ports, etc..are not provided by JUCE at all.


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## Virtuoso (Jan 19, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> ooooh, hopefully Native Instruments, Soundtoys and UVI can do some updates.


I did a quick scan of VST2 and 3 plugins on my system the other day to see what impact this would have. Surprisingly, some major developers have yet to catch on to this 14 year old format!

*No VST 3:-*
Audioease
Korg
Lexicon
Native Instruments (except Kontakt)
Orchestral Tools
Relab
Soundtoys
Synthogy Ivory
Toontrack (except EZ-Bass)
Ujam
Universal Audio
UVI

*VST 3 Available:-*
Acon Digital
Apogee
Arturia
Audio Modeling
Boom Library
Celemony
Eventide
Exponential Audio
Fabfilter
Heavyocity
IK Multimedia
iZotope
Leapwing
Liquidsonics
Native Instruments Kontakt
Oeksound
Overloud
Plugin Alliance
Reverb Foundry
Roland
Sonible
Sonnox
Soundtheory
Softube
Spectrasonics
Spitfire Audio
SSL
TC Electronic
u-He
VSL
Waves
Zynaptiq


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 19, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Possibly Kushview Element
> 
> 64 bit – architecture are supported. 32/64 bit bridging is possible with jBridge.
> 
> ...


I am a huge fan of Kushview Element. And that would be the cheapest way to sub-host VST2. Its nearly free. Its based on JUCE and works inside VePro, which a lot of sub-hosters don't. Unify and and Kushview are both based on JUCE and work pretty well inside VePro...seperate discussion, but still.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jan 19, 2022)

My Cubase template is all VST 3 Kontakt, Synchron Player and utilizes expression maps based on CC values to keyswitch - works perfectly fine.


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## Jett Hitt (Jan 19, 2022)

So if Dorico is going to require VST3, will Sine instruments still work if hosted in VEPro? (It’ll be my luck that after finally getting all of the Berlin Mains, I won’t be able to use them.🙄)


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 19, 2022)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> My Cubase template is all VST 3 Kontakt, Synchron Player and utilizes expression maps based on CC values to keyswitch - works perfectly fine.


happy to hear that, but there are design problems you are apparently not aware of that may eventually cause you grief in certain situations related to using CC's as instrument switches.

By the way, Kontakt actually has the same design flaw as VST3 does generally...even in the VST2 version of Kontakt.


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 19, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> So if Dorico is going to require VST3, will Sine instruments still work if hosted in VEPro? (It’ll be my luck that after finally getting all of the Berlin Mains, I won’t be able to use them.🙄)


as long as they continue to ship VST2, you will be ok in VePro. VSL does not have any timeline for VST3 support in VePro. Presumably they will eventually


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## AllanH (Jan 19, 2022)

I am by no means a JUCE/VST. pro, but VST3 has several limitations with midi-CC for automation compared to VST2. VST3 is explicitly designed to not use, i.e. pass, CC automation for FX inserts, which seems counter to many common uses of CC messages. Every so often the issues gets brought up on the JUCE forums, as new developers only have access to VST3. For the few things I've written, I ended up just relying on Cubase's automation infrastructure


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## dunamisstudio (Jan 19, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> ooooh, hopefully Native Instruments, Soundtoys and UVI can do some updates.





Virtuoso said:


> I did a quick scan of VST2 and 3 plugins on my system the other day to see what impact this would have. Surprisingly, some major developers have yet to catch on to this 14 year old format!
> 
> *No VST 3:-*
> Native Instruments (except Kontakt)


@Faheem Hasan Another topic that some are curious, will there be VST3 support for the rest of your products in the future?


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## Faheem Hasan (Jan 19, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> @Faheem Hasan Another topic that some are curious, will there be VST3 support for the rest of your products in the future?


@dunamisstudio I'm afraid I cannot be a spokesperson for all of the company's pending topics, but from what little I can share to the outside world, VST3 support is indeed a high priority for our teams. As you may have noticed, some of our plugins have already started to support VST3, and where feasible, we hope to continue this trend. Unfortunately, I can't reveal any timelines for doing so here. Hope that helps!


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## Henu (Jan 19, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> Lexicon


Hell freezes over before they will make a VST3 version for the Lexicon bundle. It's my absolute workhorse reverb and nothing beats it certain things IMO, so I'm already superpissed about this.


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## dunamisstudio (Jan 20, 2022)

I reached out to a few companies I mentioned earlier, here's their responses:

Soundtoys


> Thanks for reaching out to Soundtoys Support!
> 
> We are working on updating our plug-ins to VST3 for future compatibility with DAWs that will stop supporting VST2. We don't have an exact timeframe for when that will be out, but it is in the pipeline. You can read more about that in our last newsletter which talked about our native M1 work as well as a mention of our VST3 development.
> 
> ...


UVI


> Thanks for reaching out,
> 
> I have been confirmed by our team that we do not have a specific ETA regarding VST3 support on all UVI products at the moment,
> 
> ...


Just in case people wanted to know.


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## chocobitz825 (Jan 20, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> I reached out to a few companies I mentioned earlier, here's there responses:
> 
> Soundtoys
> 
> ...


so they'll get to it at the last minute, or a few months after its too late.


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## Vlzmusic (Jan 20, 2022)

They mention a 24 months period, probably won't happen overnight.


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## Al Maurice (Jan 21, 2022)

It will be nice, when the VST developers finally get round to conforming to the VST3 spec properly.

Rather than just treating it as a container for VST2. Kind of reminds me of USB-C, when is a socket just a socket, when it has nothing to do with what protocol the device speaks.

Then we can all move on, and gain from the benefits VST3 gives for orchestral sampling.


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## easyrider (Jan 21, 2022)

Henu said:


> Hell freezes over before they will make a VST3 version for the Lexicon bundle. It's my absolute workhorse reverb and nothing beats it certain things IMO, so I'm already superpissed about this.



Vep?


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 21, 2022)

Al Maurice said:


> Then we can all move on, and gain from the benefits VST3 gives for orchestral sampling.



What benefits exactly?

This is unlikely to happen at this point. My prediction is that most will convert their vst2 plugins to CLAP to avoid licensing problems and will provide vst3 wrappers from that. We shall see though


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## INCIRIOS (Jan 21, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> I don't assume that. Does it look like a JUCE app? If that were the case I think they'd already be shipping a VST3.


Pretty sure it's JUCE, unless they happened to design a lot of elements specifically like JUCE ones. Additionally, they specifically advertised for developers on the JUCE forum, along with Spitfire and 8dio, among others.

And to clarify, VST3 does have a little bit of a different architecture to VST2 even when using JUCE - but most of it is abstracted out within the JUCE framework.


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## Crowe (Jan 21, 2022)

So if I understand correctly, whatever version comes out within the next 24 months will still support vst2?

I only update once every 4 to 5 years or so so I'll be fine for the foreseeable future XD.


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## mscp (Jan 21, 2022)

I failed to understand the logic behind ending VST2. It's not like they're rewriting the entire software to maximise efficiency in modern computers anyway...


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## homie (Jan 21, 2022)

> Moreover, within the next 24 months, Steinberg's host applications and plug-ins across macOS and Windows will offer VST 3 compatibility only.


What i understand is that the next version of Cubase is VST3 only.


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## homie (Jan 21, 2022)

mscp said:


> I failed to understand the logic behind ending VST2. It's not like they're rewriting the entire software to maximise efficiency in modern computers anyway...


They are talking about stability not performance gains. Without knowing any details that sounds fairly reasonable to me. On the other hand it's a nightmare for backwards compatability of old projects.


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## zvenx (Jan 21, 2022)

homie said:


> What i understand is that the next version of Cubase is VST3 only.


This is not true.. I can say with 100% certainty. 

What is true is the Native Apple Silicon version of Cubase, wouldn't be able to run native Apple Silicon vst2 plugins (but can run many/most vst plugins via the rosetta 2 layer).
rsp


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## homie (Jan 21, 2022)

One wish regarding backwards compatibilty (if technically possible of course):

Dear Steinberg please consider a migration tool to help replacing VST2 for VST3 plugin instances without losing any data for old project files. Something like a missing font replacer found in graphic software. Ideally doing the job automatically for us.


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## zvenx (Jan 21, 2022)

homie said:


> They are talking about stability not performance gains. Without knowing any details that failry sounds reasonable to me. On the other hand it's a nightmare for backwards compatability of old projects.


I keep older versions of Cubendo around for older projects (like I have Nuendo 6.5 still on my PC for older projects that had 32 bit only plugins), on my mac, I have up to Cubase 9. I had up to Cubase 8 until a month or less ago. 
Of course at some point Apple will come with an OS version that will make all of that moot.

rsp


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## homie (Jan 21, 2022)

zvenx said:


> This is not true.. I can say with 100% certainty. What is true is the Native Apple Silicon version of it wouldn't be able to run native Apple Silicon vst2 plugins (but can run many/most vst plugins via the rosetta 2 layer).
> rsp


Ok thanks. If true they should consider to rework that text to avoid misunderstandings. But maybe it just me being to stupid to grasp the meaning.


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## d.healey (Jan 21, 2022)

zvenx said:


> This is not true.. I can say with 100% certainty.


Depends on when they release the next version...

"Moreover, within the next 24 months, Steinberg's host applications and plug-ins across macOS and Windows will offer VST 3 compatibility only."


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## homie (Jan 21, 2022)

d.healey said:


> Depends on when they release the next version...
> 
> "Moreover, within the next 24 months, Steinberg's host applications and plug-ins across macOS and Windows will offer VST 3 compatibility only."


I think you're perfectly right. They are just deliberately vague. The only thing clear is that VST3 only happens within 24 months. That leaves the possiblity of 1 or 2 versions still having VST2 support. I'd say the next version still has VST2 support and then next one after that is VST3 only.


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## zvenx (Jan 21, 2022)

homie said:


> Ok thanks. If true they should consider to rework that text to avoid misunderstandings. But maybe it just me being to stupid to grasp the meaning.


I know there was a bit confusion earlier on, but I think it was rewritten to clarify..

rsp


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## zvenx (Jan 21, 2022)

d.healey said:


> Depends on when they release the next version...
> 
> "Moreover, within the next 24 months, Steinberg's host applications and plug-ins across macOS and Windows will offer VST 3 compatibility only."


Cubase 12 I imagine will come out within the next few months, it does allow vst2 on intel (and amd) based cpus.

Think of why I, or someone can say this with absolute certainty.
rsp


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## pixel (Jan 21, 2022)

I hope that Relab is planning to do vst3 of Sonsig-A. I don't know if their other plugins are vst3 or not. 

It looks like Best Service Engine 2 is vst2 only. I have a bad feeling that they will not make vst3 version. I can't exist without Eduardo's libraries!


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 21, 2022)

Light and Sound said:


> And to clarify, VST3 does have a little bit of a different architecture to VST2 even when using JUCE


like what? Sorry no. Juce takes the abstracted midi info, converts SOME of it to midi in order to process in Juce, and then converts SOME of it back to VST3 abstractions. When you code a juce plugin you are in no way whatsoever using the VST3 paradigm.

If Sine is indeed coded with JUCE, then they can potentially produced a VST3 version very easily. I'm sure they will produce a VST3 either way sometime before Cubase drops VST2, I would not worry about that one.


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## INCIRIOS (Jan 21, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> like what? Sorry no. Juce takes the abstracted midi info, converts SOME of it to midi in order to process in Juce, and then converts SOME of it back to VST3 abstractions. When you code a juce plugin you are in no way whatsoever using the VST3 paradigm.
> 
> If Sine is indeed coded with JUCE, then they can potentially produced a VST3 version very easily. I'm sure they will produce a VST3 either way sometime before Cubase drops VST2, I would not worry about that one.


You quoted part of my message saying it was wrong, and then said JUCE abstracts the midi info back to process in JUCE.... which is what the rest of my message said..? The intent behind my post is that the difference in coding (from a JUCE developer standpoint) _is_ a bit different than a normal VST2 (though not by much, and it all depends on how you're handling automation, for simple plugins you could use the same code).


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 21, 2022)

Light and Sound said:


> You quoted part of my message saying it was wrong, and then said JUCE abstracts the midi info back to process in JUCE.... which is what the rest of my message said..? The intent behind my post is that the difference in coding (from a JUCE developer standpoint) _is_ a bit different than a normal VST2 (though not by much, and it all depends on how you're handling automation, for simple plugins you could use the same code).


The coding approach in Juce is different yes, but the original point that I was trying to make and will make again, is that JUCE's approach is more like VST2 then it is like VST3. They are miles apart from VST3. People can produce essentially VST-wrapped plugins with JUCE by checking a checkbox, but they are not really using the features of VST3, nor the approach, nor anything about VST3 that is supposed to make it better. They are only adding more unnecessary complexity in order to provide an actual VST3 plugin that can be hosted by a VST3 host.


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## homie (Jan 22, 2022)

pixel said:


> I hope that Relab is planning to do vst3 of Sonsig-A. I don't know if their other plugins are vst3 or not.


I've two newer Relab plugins which are both VST2 only. I think they don't support VST3 for any of their plugins currently.


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## homie (Jan 22, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> People can produce essentially VST-wrapped plugins with JUCE by checking a checkbox, but they are not really using the features of VST3, nor the approach, nor anything about VST3 that is supposed to make it better.


Interesting. IIRC I've read somewhere that a VST3 plugin can be disabled by the host when inactive in order to save CPU. That could explain why some VST3 plugins tax the CPU nevertheless. They are simply not build like a proper VST3 plugin, just wrapped. I may be wrong though.


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## AllanH (Jan 22, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> What benefits exactly?
> 
> This is unlikely to happen at this point. My prediction is that most will convert their vst2 plugins to CLAP to avoid licensing problems and will provide vst3 wrappers from that. We shall see though


I had not given the CLAP initiative much thought, but this actually looks interesting. MIT licensing is certainly favorable so if it's possible to write a clean wrappers (incl VST3), that is actually a good way forward. I'm a little concerned that Steinberg is making their own life difficult with the very standoff'ish position on VST3 features, or lack thereof, more accurately.


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## Jerry Growl (Jan 22, 2022)

How many UAD plugin licences did I buy over recent years? They are not going to be VST 3 anytime soon, I fear. There's tons of other 3rd party plugins that aren't supporting VST3. 64-bit only, I get that. It makes sense. But this is madness.

So I won't be buying the +-100,- EUR upgrades anymore as soon as VST2 is actually no longer supported... ok. Done.

I wonder if there is going to be that much of improvements in the next Cubase editions to make up for that VST2 loss.


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## homie (Jan 22, 2022)

It would be nice if they would offer a VST2 legacy support mode you have to enable instead of scrapping it completely.


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## lokotus (Jan 22, 2022)

Could somebody please clarify if i understand this correclty. Steinberg will eventually Kill ALL VST2 Support meaning the media bay with all the track presets that I have build for years will not be able to be loaded up ? that would suck tremendously :(


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## d.healey (Jan 22, 2022)

lokotus said:


> Steinberg will eventually Kill ALL VST2 Support


Yes, in their own software. Other developers can still support it in existing apps but will probably also drop support too.


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## pixel (Jan 22, 2022)

homie said:


> I've two newer Relab plugins which are both VST2 only. I think they don't support VST3 for any of their plugins currently.


This makes me worried. I hope that updating to vst3 is not something that Relab is not willing to do.


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## lokotus (Jan 22, 2022)

Does it mean that projects which contain vst2 instruments won't load any longer at all ?
There seems to be no easy way to convert any vst2 tracks to vst3 tracks oven when both dlls are available...?
I am also thinking about all the Synths etc. I used inside Komplete Kontrol, which is only a VST2 plugin, meaning almost nothing will ever load without legacy vst2 support ?


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## d.healey (Jan 22, 2022)

lokotus said:


> Does it mean that projects which contain vst2 instruments won't load any longer at all ?
> There seems to be no easy way to convert any vst2 tracks to vst3 tracks oven when both dlls are available...?
> I am also thinking about all the Synths etc. I used inside Komplete Kontrol, which is only a VST2 plugin, meaning almost nothing will ever load without legacy vst2 support ?


Regardless of VST2 support you should render all your tracks as audio and use a DAW that provides a human readable save file format (such as xml) if you want any hope of opening your project long into the future.

Software and hardware will always change and there is no certainty that any piece of software will be around forever and definitely not that it will be backwards compatible with saved projects from all previous versions.


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## lokotus (Jan 22, 2022)

d.healey said:


> Regardless of VST2 support you should render all your tracks as audio and use a DAW that provides a human readable save file format (such as xml) if you want any hope of opening your project long into the future.
> 
> Software and hardware will always change and there is no certainty that any piece of software will be around forever and definitely not that it will be backwards compatible with saved projects from all previous versions.


Yes I understand that, but in this case even xml files exported from cubase won't help ,because re importing the vst2 version from the xml file will also not be possible if that is what you meant..


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## RogiervG (Jan 22, 2022)

homie said:


> Bad news wherever you look.


Why? VSt3 is already multiple years old (vst3 was 2008!, vst3.5 2011!). Time enough for developers to make a vst3 version of their plugin, i would say.


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## d.healey (Jan 22, 2022)

lokotus said:


> xml files exported from cubase won't help


It will when Cubase no longer exists and someone develops a converter to bring those projects into another DAW. But yes, won't help you get VST2s working in a future version of Cubase.


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## lokotus (Jan 22, 2022)

d.healey said:


> It will when Cubase no longer exists and someone develops a converter to bring those projects into another DAW. But yes, won't help you get VST2s working in a future version of Cubase.


do you know of anybody who does this or anything similar? I have been trying to find a way to convert track presets to the presonus studio one format but there does not seems to be any solution. I can imagine converting a cubase xml into another daw xml format is even more complicated...
But yea, a workaround that is most likely not going to work in the future  :(


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## d.healey (Jan 22, 2022)

lokotus said:


> do you know of anybody who does this or anything similar?


There was an open DAW format type thing a few years ago, I don't know if it still exists or how many DAW developers were part of it. I don't know anything specifically about Cubase, I haven't used it over a decade. I know that Ardour can open Pro-Tools sessions so that's something but doesn't help much with the VST2 situation!


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## lokotus (Jan 22, 2022)

d.healey said:


> There was an open DAW format type thing a few years ago, I don't know if it still exists or how many DAW developers were part of it. I don't know anything specifically about Cubase, I haven't used it over a decade. I know that Ardour can open Pro-Tools sessions so that's something but doesn't help much with the VST2 situation!


ok thanks for the input


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## KEM (Jan 23, 2022)

Isn’t VST3 just better in every way though?


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 23, 2022)

In every way? no.


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## zvenx (Jan 23, 2022)

KEM said:


> Isn’t VST3 just better in every way though?


Depends on who you ask apparently.
rsp


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## José Herring (Mar 11, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Isn't SINE VST 2? Hopefully they they will update it. I wonder if this will put some people off a future update where VST 2 is disabled as I am sure many plugin providers will not updated to VST 3, especially if the plugin is no longer being supported.


Did Sine ever update to VST3? I just installed Cubase 12 and it doesn't see Sine at all. So I updated and reinstalled Sine but it just installed VST2 version. Major bummer if Sine isn't VST3.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 11, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Did Sine ever update to VST3? I just installed Cubase 12 and it doesn't see Sine at all. So I updated and reinstalled Sine but it just installed VST2 version. Major bummer if Sine isn't VST3.


Just looked through my system. I have the latest version of Sine installed and it didn't come with a vst3 plugin. So, dll/vst2 only according to my installation. I definitely didn't delete it, installed it fresh a few days ago.
Also no vst3 option when running the latest installer.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 11, 2022)

The problem is - there are a lot of smaller developers and even free plugins that may not ever or any time soon update their plugins to vst3. So for the time being it won't be possible to properly run old projects.
It easy to say - just update it! But some might simply not do it, or take a long time. Meanwhile the user will suffer. Plain and ugly.

It's also a burden on users with low budged who can no longer use the great wealth of free plugins that mostly come in vst2. There are also always some odd and unique old plugins but inactive developers that will be a shame to trash.

But I hope there will be an incentive for someone to figure out a vst3 wrapper. It is possible to run vst2 projects with vst3 versions of the same plugins (at least in the case of Kontakt and some other plugins that automatically updated somehow) thus perhaps it's also possible to convert them somehow.


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## José Herring (Mar 11, 2022)

DarkestShadow said:


> The problem is - there are a lot of smaller developers and even free plugins that may not ever or any time soon update their plugins to vst3. So for the time being it won't be possible to properly run old projects.
> It easy to say - just update it! But some might simply not do it, or take a long time. Meanwhile the user will suffer. Plain and ugly.
> 
> It's also a burden on users with low budged who can no longer use the great wealth of free plugins that mostly come in vst2. There are also always some odd and unique old plugins but inactive developers that will be a shame to trash.
> ...


Exactly! There may be a wrapper. I just saw mention of a vst host that you can use as a plugin. I will look for it again when I am back in my home studio tonight. 

If not then majorly bummed because I do use Sine a lot and I want the new features in Cubase 12


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## zolhof (Mar 11, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Exactly! There may be a wrapper. I just saw mention of a vst host that you can use as a plugin. I will look for it again when I am back in my home studio tonight.
> 
> If not then majorly bummed because I do use Sine a lot and I want the new features in Cubase 12


Same thing here, I was going to hold on the upgrade but the two video tracks feature turned out to be more necessary than I anticipated. Lost several VST2 in the process, including Sine. VEPRo to the rescue 

I'm testing Blue Cat Patchwork, and it kinda works, until it doesn't hehe It doesn't solve backwards compatibility and I'm trying to figure out surround. What host are you going to use? Curious if there are better alternatives.

The ideal scenario would be to have a wrapper from Steinberg that keeps the original unique ID to at least being able to load settings from previous projects.

Same thing happened in Dorico, but thankfully the one plugin I can't live without (TXL Timecode) was VST3 ready.


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## Markrs (Mar 11, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Exactly! There may be a wrapper. I just saw mention of a vst host that you can use as a plugin. I will look for it again when I am back in my home studio tonight.
> 
> If not then majorly bummed because I do use Sine a lot and I want the new features in Cubase 12


You could try Kushview Element which is open source though they ask for a small donation ($5) to have the binary files.









Kushview


Kushview is developing pro audio software. Check us out!



kushview.net





Also Unify from PluginGuru can work as a host/wrapper and has lots of other benefits









Unify (Standard Edition) - PluginGuru.com


Unify 1.9.1 is here with Apple Silicon support and a new MIDI Effect called CC RIDER that changes EVERYTHING!!!




www.pluginguru.com


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## José Herring (Mar 11, 2022)

zolhof said:


> What host are you going to use?


Cubase 11.



Markrs said:


> You could try Kushview Element which is open source though they ask for a small donation ($5) to have the binary files.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks bro. Heading back to C11 but will check these out as well.

Funny that I had anticipated the migration to VST3 so all my plugins are now VST3. I never imagined that Sine being the "cutting" edge of sample players according to OT would over look VST3. Especially when plugins that are nearly 15 years old like Zebra have VST3 already. Seems like a major oversight on OT's part.


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## KEM (Mar 11, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Cubase 11.
> 
> 
> Thanks bro. Heading back to C11 but will check these out as well.
> ...



Someone tell them that!!


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## AllanH (Mar 12, 2022)

lokotus said:


> Does it mean that projects which contain vst2 instruments won't load any longer at all ?
> There seems to be no easy way to convert any vst2 tracks to vst3 tracks oven when both dlls are available...?
> I am also thinking about all the Synths etc. I used inside Komplete Kontrol, which is only a VST2 plugin, meaning almost nothing will ever load without legacy vst2 support ?


No - VST2s load just fine in Cubase 12 at least on Windows. Steinberg's announcement about the ultimate deprecation of VST2 is over two years. My guess is that C12 is the last cubase that supports VST2, but only the Steinies know.

On the new Macs, the official statement is something like: VST 2 plug-ins will only run in Cubase 12 in Rosetta 2 mode on Apple silicon Mac computers. Cubase 12 will not support VST 2 when running natively on Apple silicon Macs.


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## zolhof (Mar 12, 2022)

False alarm, the issue was that Dorico and Cubase blacklisted all my VST2 plugins. That's a first after an update, so silly me assumed that they stopped working and didn't bother checking the plugin manager. Everything loads fine now, including Sine.


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