# JW+HZ=The Dark Jedi Knight



## SymphonicSamples (Dec 27, 2013)

Hello Fellow V.I'ers ,
I wanted to share this piece . The Dark Jedi Knight , which was an exercise in combining the things I admire in both John Williams and Hans Zimmer composing styles , imagining what it would sound like if Hans Zimmer scored a Starwars Film . This is one of two 2 pieces I've written , each leaning more toward one side more than the other , but with the intent of always having a foot in each world . The idea was to take the progression we all know , develop it and then move away from it completely in a short space of time through a few themes . In the process I decided to power up one of my old Synths and make a couple of sounds to complement Vsti's which was fun , only to find all synth batteries were dead , which was a good thing in the long run and forced me to start from scratch . Goes to show how long it's been since they've been powered up  I hope you guys enjoy the first piece and all thoughts/comments are much appreciated .


https://soundcloud.com/symphonicsamples ... edi-knight

or

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/126542474=false[/flash]


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## Resoded (Dec 28, 2013)

Nice one Matthew, interesting combination!


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## SymphonicSamples (Dec 29, 2013)

Hey Eric , thanks for taking the time to listen and reply


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## Neifion (Dec 29, 2013)

I really liked this; pretty awesome stuff! Though I personally didn't hear anything that reminded me of JW or Star Wars (sounded all HZ to me). Great nonetheless though!

EDIT: Upon listening again, I definitely caught the JW, particularly in the whimsical woodblocks(?), wood winds, and soaring strings. Combined with HZ's power brass/perc, I think it's pretty brilliant!


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## Jem7 (Dec 29, 2013)

Nice piece man. It reminded me HGW in some places


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## Jdiggity1 (Dec 29, 2013)

Silvestri's Avengers even makes an appearance.
Needs some rapid triplets in the trumpets!
Trumplets!


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## SymphonicSamples (Dec 30, 2013)

Hey , thanks for listening and your comments . Neifion (by the way great first name) , indeed you are correct , also the first theme played by the French Horns has a melodic fragment from Starwars , the Binary Sunset main theme . Which is this piece's case - Eb , C ,G ,F instead of the G-Minor Williams used , if you isolate that alone you will hear it . Given what precedes it and followings , it's not so obvious but that was part of the JW connection in that section . Some JW over a dominant HZ sound world  Now I will have to checkout HGW and The Avengers .. The second piece I wrote is much the reverse , with more of a JW sound world


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## zacnelson (Dec 30, 2013)

I had to listen to this when I saw `Jedi' in the title! This is whetting my appetite for the upcoming new Star Wars movie in 2015!

I really liked the way this composition `opened' up between about 1:30 and 2:30, that minute in there was the highlight for me, some very luscious chord progressions and melodies.

I wish I could be cryogenically frozen until the new SW movie comes out


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## markwind (Dec 30, 2013)

This is incredible. At 0.35 when those Synths set in, was amazing. Very tight. 

I'm happy to be humbled enough to say that I am nowhere near being able to criticize (constructively speaking) this piece in any meaningful sense. I hope I will be able to learn alot from you guys in 2014, right now, I really can't call myself a composer if I'd be standing next to what some of you people can produce.


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## zacnelson (Dec 30, 2013)

I know exactly how you feel Mark, I am very reticent to post anything on this forum due to the incredible quality of the work frequently on here! However don't be afraid to post something, even if it's a work-in-progress, perhaps if you specifically request tips or feedback people will be more comfortable providing constructive feedback and you will learn even more quickly!


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## SymphonicSamples (Dec 30, 2013)

Hey Mark , Zac . Thanks for listening and sharing your thoughts , it's greatly appreciated . Also nice to have an Aussie chime in  I know we're all constantly trying to refine our skills and write something that connects to people , in a never ending learning curve . Actually , if any of you guys with high-end monitoring environments would be kind enough to give me some feedback , albeit a compressed to hell mp3 . But I feel my monitors are just not accurate in low frequencies and wondering if it's balanced ? Any thoughts , suggestions would be great .


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## zacnelson (Dec 31, 2013)

Hi Matthew, unfortunately I'm one of those sad characters who does all his music with headphones.... I have some Alesis M1 monitors but my room isn't `treated' and with 2 young children who go to bed very early I only get to turn on the speakers about once a fortnight!! I don't have a `studio' - just an iMac with a few plugins!!! Otherwise I would love to critique your low frequency mix. 

There are a lot of great Aussie composers on this forum and on Soundcloud! 

Also, regarding monitoring, do you get depressed when you listen back to your music on Soundcloud after listening to the proper version? I find the high end in particular gets horribly mangled by Soundcloud and I worry that when people listen to my tracks they might think I created those weird sounds deliberately.


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## markwind (Dec 31, 2013)

My studio is treated, but im working only with KRK rokit 8s. However, I like to think I know them reasonably well . 

It might, be that the low is a bit too predominant. I wouldn't want to cut it down too much, or it'll be missed. I think if you cut it down just a little, the rest of the mix would be able to shine a little bit more.


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## Mike Marino (Dec 31, 2013)

Cool stuff Matthew! That synth sound ~0:35 is kickin'; certainly caught my attention. The whole piece sound really strong. Thanks for sharing!

- Mike


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## SymphonicSamples (Jan 1, 2014)

Hey, thanks again for sharing your thoughts .
Zac , I know what you mean when it comes to headphones , ironically I have the same monitors as you , I seriously need to update , it's long overdue , and I normally only get a chance to write from 12-3 at night , so I feel you pain . And yes , as you would know with your recent upload , so much gets lost in the compression when uploading to soundcloud . But the plus is , SC is a great service to put your music out there and allows for you to hopefully get work and be noticed by the right people  
Mark , thanks for taking the time to reply , it's crazy I got another message from someone who said I needed to add more bass . I'll take a look at it , and Mike , thanks for listening , I must say I enjoyed writing this piece , given Hans Zimmer and John Williams are vastly different composers , there was plenty of inspiration to draw from . 


If anyone else can offer a third opinion on the low end that would be much appreciated . The jury's still out on this one . Cheers .


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## zacnelson (Jan 1, 2014)

Yeah, I do a lot of my work around midnight and into the small hours of the morning, and then up early again for my day job! PRetty exhausting! I don't know if it matters WHAT monitors you have really, so I wouldn't assume you need an upgrade. For example, Yamaha NS10 monitors became an industry standard in mixing studios despite the fact they are pretty average; however the fact that everybody had the SAME monitors meant it was logical to be able to recognise the sounds no matter which studio you were mixing in. So all of a sudden one type of speaker becomes the `standard' for no other reason than the ubiquity of it! I think the most important factor for accurate bass monitoring is having a well set up and treated room. Aside from that, you may have to rely on spectrum analysis which will identify stuff below 50hZ which may not be very noticeable audibly but will play havoc with your master bus compressors/limiters.


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## zacnelson (Jan 1, 2014)

Matthew, here is an interesting article about the issue of monitoring low frequencies:

http://www.recordingreview.com/blog/recording-equipment-reviews/do-i-really-need-a-subwoofer-for-my-studio-monitors/

You should also check some of the other articles by Brandon Drury on his Recording Review website, he writes some fantastic stuff, particularly exposing a lot of the myths about gear people think they HAVE to own in order to be `professional'. If you subscribe to his free weekly newsletter there is always a good short read once a week which entertains and informs.

Enjoy!

Zac


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## markwind (Jan 2, 2014)

Hey Matthew, 

I listened to the track again, and I can see where he or she is coming from in saying that a bit of extra low end might be beneficial.

I was just moreso thinking of the crowdedness of the mix, rather then the punch. If it is more punch you crave in your track, then by all means boosting the low end is exactly right .

When I listened to the track I noticed however that the mix is a little crowded, so reducing the bass was my first idea of opening up some space. I might have been wrong in that though  it might very well be either SC compression thats throwing me off, or other points in the mixing stage that can be adressed to give everything a little more clarity/it's own space.

Someone please tell me i'm talking out of my *** if you think so .


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## Penthagram (Jan 2, 2014)

Hey Matthew, 

fantastic one. congratulations¡

i realliy dig the part at 1:30

my minor comments just trying to help and just my opinion:

you can work with dynamics so for example at the 1:30 entrance you notice a crescendo in dynamics not only inh density. also there are some parts where the low percussion is a bit blurred and don´t help defining the low end, and rest lot´s of space.

but you have done an impressive job. 

regards


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## SymphonicSamples (Jan 3, 2014)

Hey , thanks for taking the time to reply.
Zac , I totally understand your thoughts on monitors  I have the original version of the Monitor Ones , that makes them rather old now  and over the years I've had to fixed dry joints in the amp a few times , ironically it's been playing up recently , and I'm near the point where I couldn't be bothered spending the time pulling it apart again . It's service days are numbered . Haha . It would be nice to update .. Also thanks for the links , I'm checking them out now , much appreciated . If you have any other sites , please pass them on . 
Mark ,I'm gonna have another crack at it , and look at what you have mentioned . It's so strange to go back since I wrote it a little while back now , and the current piece's I'm working on are worlds away from this , and it's like I'm seeing a new women 
Penthagram , thanks for your kind comments , I'll look at this also .
Cheers .


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## TeroV (Jan 5, 2014)

Convincing stuff and great sound. A well chosen title, too.

Just a couple of comments concerning the harmony and melody:

At 1:10, the F major chord with A in bass was quite surprising considering what had preceded it in terms of harmony. I believe that I also hear an E-flat in some instrument, making it an F7 chord, and if true, I would leave the E-flat away.

At 1:41-1:42, there's a rather surprising D-flat major to G major chord change but it works in this context. What kind of sticks out though is the melody which goes a-flat_g_f-sharp_g, two minor seconds after each other. That interval sequence is... not very Jedi-like. :D


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## SymphonicSamples (Jan 7, 2014)

Hey TeroV , thanks for taking to time to listen so intently , you are indeed correct with the Eb , but in this case it was a specific choices made .I understand what you have suggested , but if I was to use F major instead , the essence of what I wanted would be lost , intern a person preference  In the second example I originally only had strings playing the notes to outline the shift of harmony but added some synths since it got lost in the mix . Hopefully you enjoyed the rest of the piece . And in reference to the 2nd example not being very Jedi like ... May the force be with you


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## TeroV (Jan 7, 2014)

Hi Matthew, yes, I very much enjoyed the rest of the piece, thank you for sharing it with us. Why I said that about the 2nd example was because the rest was very much Jedi-like (heroic, bold) and that particular strand of notes sticked out as very different. May the force be with you too. :D


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## SymphonicSamples (Jan 7, 2014)

Hey TeroV, yeah the first time the figures used is easy on the ears . The second time the figure gets used it was pretty much a brute force modulation  I suppose like most things I became used to it after hearing it a number of times before finishing the piece a few days later , but to fresh ears , it's all different  Thanks for listening , and your thoughts .


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