# Wrath of Khan Now Available



## ed buller (Dec 2, 2022)

Just in time for Santa !









Horner's "Star Trek II" Full Orchestral Score


Without using any of Goldsmith’s themes or motives from the first picture, Horner was still able to mimic his style perfectly, while simultaneously preserving his own unique voice as a composer. The results are a powerful statement from a man who was one year away from turning thirty.




omnimusicpublishing.com





Best

e


----------



## Gingerbread (Dec 2, 2022)

Yep, that's a no-brainer.


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 2, 2022)

Crazy great score. The writing is top-notch. The end credit scherzo material that includes many key music figures/themes and motives from the score is nothin short of incredible. This is how you write orchestral music folks... except, most of us cannot to this degree.


----------



## LatinXCombo (Dec 2, 2022)

KHAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## LatinXCombo (Dec 2, 2022)

Yes.


----------



## Trash Panda (Dec 2, 2022)

When is the Wrath of Capslock going to release?


----------



## LatinXCombo (Dec 2, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> When is the Wrath of Capslock going to release?


I don't even have Caps Lock on my keyboard - I have a Happy Hacking Keyboard, so I have to hold shift down manually. It gives me the ability to modulate the release time for added realism. 

I hear good things about using a breath controller, though.


----------



## tebling (Dec 2, 2022)

Fastest purchase ever.


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 2, 2022)

tebling said:


> Fastest purchase ever.


I held out for a solid 2 hours… then I played this and it was all over


----------



## ed buller (Dec 2, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> I held out for a solid 2 hours… then I played this and it was all over



His fav Lydian frenzy !

e


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 2, 2022)

I took the opportunity to pick this up along with Alan Menkin's Tangled. 

Well worth it despite the postage to the UK costing the same as the GNP of Switzerland....


----------



## gussunkri (Dec 2, 2022)

I should buy this immediately, but since Star Trek 1 came to Presto music I might try to wait for this one to appear there. Actually, I ought to ask the Omni guys whether it will.


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 2, 2022)

Michael Antrum said:


> I took the opportunity to pick this up along with Alan Menkin's Tangled.
> 
> Well worth it despite the postage to the UK costing the same as the GNP of Switzerland....


well, thanks to Canadian currency having as much value as Monopoly money, this book ran me $200.... but it's still worth it.


----------



## gussunkri (Dec 2, 2022)

Tim is so fast with his answers. This is what he said regarding a European release.
"Thank you for your inquiry. Unfortunately the Star Trek book will not be available through Presto music. However, at some point Schott Music will add it to their catalog. I can’t be sure of when but early next year is probable."

I didn't even know Schott Music carried Omni stuff. And they have North by Northwest... interesting! 
Now, can I really hold off until next year for Khan? Not sure.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Dec 2, 2022)

One of my absolute favorites I am definitely going to get this score. Do you know if this is the authentic original score or was it transcribed by someone?


----------



## liquidlino (Dec 2, 2022)

Just sent to my wife as an idea for my xmas present this year, sounds amazing!


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 2, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> One of my absolute favorites I am definitely going to get this score. Do you know if this is the authentic original score or was it transcribed by someone?


Half the fun is reading through it and working that out.....


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 2, 2022)

Michael Antrum said:


> Half the fun is reading through it and working that out.....


I'm really obsessed with woodwind scoring these days. They are the hardest thing to get right in real life as compared to samples. Like Conrad Pope once said "brass and strings balance themselves naturally... woodwinds do not". If anyone would be an authority on orchestration, it's the Pope!


----------



## mducharme (Dec 2, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> One of my absolute favorites I am definitely going to get this score. Do you know if this is the authentic original score or was it transcribed by someone?


Of course it is not a transcription. All Omni Publishing and Chris Siddall Music and Neumation Music scores are based on the original manuscript. I would be absolutely livid to pay for a transcription at that cost, without it being clearly labelled as a transcription or arrangement. These vendors would not lie and pass off a transcription as the original score, or they would get so much bad publicity that nobody would buy from them again.

The only aspect of things that might integrate a bit of ear-based transcription is determining what changes were made on the fly during the session (ex. the composer told the horns "rest during bars 33-38 instead of playing what is there"). They don't always get those last minute changes in there correctly because there may be no audio recording of the session that would allow them to determine what on-the-fly changes were requested by the composer, and in most cases these on-the-fly changes never got marked in the score.


----------



## Digivolt (Dec 2, 2022)

mducharme said:


> I would be absolutely livid to pay for a transcription at that cost


If I hadn't check I would have been disappointed they're not hardcover books at that cost unless I checked incorrectly


----------



## mducharme (Dec 2, 2022)

Digivolt said:


> If I hadn't check I would have been disappointed they're not hardcover books at that cost unless I checked incorrectly


Scores are expensive to print, you won't find them hardcover at that cost. Also, they have to license the music to be allowed to print them, so they have to recoup that cost as well and not just the printing costs.


----------



## Gingerbread (Dec 2, 2022)

mducharme said:


> Scores are expensive to print, you won't find them hardcover at that cost. Also, they have to license the music to be allowed to print them, so they have to recoup that cost as well and not just the printing costs.


Yep. It may not be hardcover, but their books have good quality binding. I've bought their "Poltergeist" and "How to Train Your Dragon" scores, and they are superb.

I do wish they would consider printing them with a spiral binding option. Maybe it's just me, but I love spiral binding for such thick books---you can lay them flat, and never a worry that the binding will give out.


----------



## Digivolt (Dec 2, 2022)

mducharme said:


> Scores are expensive to print, you won't find them hardcover at that cost. Also, they have to license the music to be allowed to print them, so they have to recoup that cost as well and not just the printing costs.


It doesn't change the fact if I hadn't checked I would have been disappointed, I'd actually rather pay extra for a hardcover copy


----------



## liquidlino (Dec 2, 2022)

Gingerbread said:


> Yep. It may not be hardcover, but their books have good quality binding. I've bought their "Poltergeist" and "How to Train Your Dragon" scores, and they are superb.
> 
> I do wish they would consider printing them with a spiral binding option. Maybe it's just me, but I love spiral binding for such thick books---you can lay them flat, and never a worry that the binding will give out.


Yep, I would love spiral bound, so much easier to handle.


----------



## mducharme (Dec 2, 2022)

You can probably get scores spiral-bound inexpensively by a local music bookstore. That's what I do.


----------



## Gingerbread (Dec 2, 2022)

mducharme said:


> You can probably get scores spiral-bound inexpensively by a local music bookstore. That's what I do.


Could you expand on that? Do you mean there are spiral-bound editions available at local music bookstores, or do you mean taking my existing copy there and having them spiral-bind it?


----------



## synthetic (Dec 2, 2022)

I haven’t bought a score in years but I hit purchase a minute after that hit my inbox.


----------



## mducharme (Dec 2, 2022)

Gingerbread said:


> Could you expand on that? Do you mean there are spiral-bound editions available at local music bookstores, or do you mean taking my existing copy there and having them spiral-bind it?


I mean take your existing copy there and have them spiral-bind it. A lot of music bookshops have spiral-binding machines because people trying to put a book on a music stand often want it to be able to sit properly flat on the stand. Trying to play from something like "The Well-Tempered Clavier" is difficult if there is no coil or ring binding, so music bookstores will typically invest in a binding machine so that customers can get the book bound at the time of purchase.


----------



## Gingerbread (Dec 2, 2022)

mducharme said:


> I mean take your existing copy there and have them spiral-bind it. A lot of music bookshops have spiral-binding machines because people trying to put a book on a music stand often want it to be able to sit properly flat on the stand. Trying to play from something like "The Well-Tempered Clavier" is difficult if there is no coil or ring binding, so music bookstores will typically invest in a binding machine so that customers can get the book bound at the time of purchase.


Excellent! I hadn't realized that was an option. Thanks!


----------



## Zedcars (Dec 3, 2022)

mducharme said:


> I mean take your existing copy there and have them spiral-bind it. A lot of music bookshops have spiral-binding machines because people trying to put a book on a music stand often want it to be able to sit properly flat on the stand. Trying to play from something like "The Well-Tempered Clavier" is difficult if there is no coil or ring binding, so music bookstores will typically invest in a binding machine so that customers can get the book bound at the time of purchase.


But what if the machine destroys my expensive book through mechanical failure, or even just destroys 1 page. Isn’t this a bit risky? Seems like they would have to cut the pages out first and then punch holes through them all. There may not be enough empty page on the left to do this.

Unless they could scan them first?


----------



## mducharme (Dec 3, 2022)

I've never had any issues, myself, after having my local music bookstore bind dozens of score books in this way. Yes, they do have to remove the very far edge binding, but they don't have to remove much of it.

I would trust them more than some copy shop where some kid working the binding machine has possibly never even done it before. The music bookstore owners have a vested interest in not screwing up a binding.


----------



## Zedcars (Dec 3, 2022)

I’ve just ordered this along with a few other titles. Unfortunately I didn’t realise Poltergeist is only available in the US and I’m in the UK but they went ahead and charged me anyway. Should I cancel my whole order or will I get this money refunded? It’s the first time I’ve ordered anything there so not sure how that works.


----------



## Zedcars (Dec 3, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> I’ve just ordered this along with a few other titles. Unfortunately I didn’t realise Poltergeist is only available in the US and I’m in the UK but they went ahead and charged me anyway. Should I cancel my whole order or will I get this money refunded? It’s the first time I’ve ordered anything there so not sure how that works.


I contacted them on their online message page. Seems a bit bad that they didn’t just point it out before I finalised the checkout stage.


----------



## ed buller (Dec 3, 2022)

mducharme said:


> Of course it is not a transcription. All Omni Publishing and Chris Siddall Music and Neumation Music scores are based on the original manuscript. I would be absolutely livid to pay for a transcription at that cost, without it being clearly labelled as a transcription or arrangement. These vendors would not lie and pass off a transcription as the original score, or they would get so much bad publicity that nobody would buy from them again.
> 
> The only aspect of things that might integrate a bit of ear-based transcription is determining what changes were made on the fly during the session (ex. the composer told the horns "rest during bars 33-38 instead of playing what is there"). They don't always get those last minute changes in there correctly because there may be no audio recording of the session that would allow them to determine what on-the-fly changes were requested by the composer, and in most cases these on-the-fly changes never got marked in the score.


The amount of effort that goes into these scores is immense. It starts with actually getting the license , then you have to track down the score !...might be under somebody's bed or lost ( some scores have been halted for this reason ). Then with a score like this it's the fiddly details. How do you transcribe a "Blaster Beam !"...or some of the odd , no longer made synths.....or this !!



best

e


----------



## mducharme (Dec 3, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> Unfortunately I didn’t realise Poltergeist is only available in the US and I’m in the UK but they went ahead and charged me anyway.


I think you read something wrong. Their page for Poltergeist says:

Available:

United States, Canada, *United Kingdom*, European Union, Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, Gibraltar, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Macedonia, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Hong Kong, People’s Republic of China, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, Laos, Brunei, Burma, Cambodia, Indonesia and the Philippines.


----------



## ed buller (Dec 3, 2022)

Zedcars said:


> I contacted them on their online message page. Seems a bit bad that they didn’t just point it out before I finalised the checkout stage.


Poltergeist is available in the UK...I bought it

besat

e


----------



## Zedcars (Dec 3, 2022)

mducharme said:


> I think you read something wrong. Their page for Poltergeist says:
> 
> Available:
> 
> United States, Canada, *United Kingdom*, European Union, Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, Gibraltar, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Macedonia, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Hong Kong, People’s Republic of China, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, Laos, Brunei, Burma, Cambodia, Indonesia and the Philippines.





ed buller said:


> Poltergeist is available in the UK...I bought it
> 
> besat
> 
> e


----------



## ed buller (Dec 3, 2022)

Back atcha !


----------



## Zedcars (Dec 3, 2022)

ed buller said:


> Back atcha !


Thank you. Now I’m confused. Do you think it might be referring to the Back To The Future Score I ordered? It’s not clear at all to me.


----------



## ed buller (Dec 3, 2022)

Ahh!

almost certainly :






Tim is restricted sometimes as to where he can sell these. It's a shame as this is a must have. I got mine sent to a mate in the US. But yes I am sure that's what it is. Write to TIM, lovely fellow he will sort it out. [email protected]

Best

e


----------



## Zedcars (Dec 3, 2022)

ed buller said:


> Ahh!
> 
> almost certainly :
> 
> ...


Thank you Ed.


----------



## Zedcars (Dec 3, 2022)

mducharme said:


> I think you read something wrong. Their page for Poltergeist says:
> 
> Available:
> 
> United States, Canada, *United Kingdom*, European Union, Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, Gibraltar, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Macedonia, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Hong Kong, People’s Republic of China, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, Laos, Brunei, Burma, Cambodia, Indonesia and the Philippines.


Thank you. Figured it out it was BTTF!


----------



## mducharme (Dec 3, 2022)

ed buller said:


> Then with a score like this it's the fiddly details. How do you transcribe a "Blaster Beam !"...or some of the odd , no longer made synths.....or this !!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is an immense effort, but for the most part they are just having to indicate the "fiddly details" as you call them the way the original composer did. For instance, Horner just wrote these simple repeating loop patterns somewhat resembling the letter "e" in cursive for the plastic pipes whirling around (from your Youtube clip) at the opening of ST2 where they were used.


----------



## ed buller (Dec 3, 2022)

mducharme said:


> It is an immense effort, but for the most part they are just having to indicate the "fiddly details" as you call them the way the original composer did. For instance, Horner just wrote these simple repeating loop patterns somewhat resembling the letter "e" in cursive for the plastic pipes whirling around (from your Youtube clip) at the opening of ST2 where they were used.


it's the keyboard patches that are problematic. Tim actually sent me a clip for this and wanted to know what made it ?.....I wrote to the original player but he couldn't remember. And quite often the score will say something useless like "Big Moog. Patch 23" !!. Or worse "BUCHALA..."SCARY RAIN"

best

e


----------



## mducharme (Dec 3, 2022)

In the case of Wrath of Khan, according the original handwritten manuscript for the main title, the second Jupiter 8 synth enters at the beginning and is labelled something like "(thu)mping bass effect" (I put the thu in parentheses because I'm not 100% sure that is what the handwriting says). Then in bar 6, the first Jupiter 8 enters with the "Electronic Ocarina" sound, presumably the same one he used outside of the intended register in his "Aliens" score. Then in bar 10, the "Serge Synth" comes in with "fluttering bell tree type sound" and the ARP 2600 comes in with "gunshot effect". Because he used the Ocarina in a few scores, I'm guessing it is a preset on the Jupiter 8. For the others, I'm not sure.


----------



## ed buller (Dec 3, 2022)

mducharme said:


> Then in bar 10, the "Serge Synth" comes in with "fluttering bell tree type sound"









mducharme said:


> ARP 2600 comes in with "gunshot effect"











Good Luck !

best

e


----------



## mducharme (Dec 3, 2022)

ed buller said:


> Good Luck !
> 
> best
> 
> e


Yes, I know these are modular synths, but it generally shouldn't have to be the responsibility of the score to exactly explain the patch diagram used to get that sound...

These days you can download "presets" for the ARP 2600 VST that have various sounds. Using those as a starting point, someone could try to get something that sounds like a "gunshot", if they really wanted to represent it in a mockup or something. But again, I would not expect this detailed information to be in a score. You would not include patch diagrams for a modular synth in the full score. Also, I don't think Horner really came up with these sounds himself, he had a synth person figure out how to configure/patch things to get close to the sound he wanted.


----------



## ed buller (Dec 3, 2022)

mducharme said:


> These days you can download "presets" for the ARP 2600 VST that have various sounds. Using those as a starting point, someone could try to get something that sounds like a "gunshot", if they really wanted to represent it in a mockup or something. But again, I would not expect this detailed information to be in a score. You would not include patch diagrams for a modular synth in the full score. Also, I don't think Horner really came up with these sounds himself, he had a synth person figure out how to configure/patch things to get close to the sound he wanted.


you do know that I know all this right ?

best

e


----------



## mducharme (Dec 3, 2022)

ed buller said:


> you do know that I know all this right ?
> 
> best
> 
> e


Yes, I figured, but you seemed to think I was some kind of idiot who didn't realize that these were modular synths being used, so I figured I should add more detail so that you didn't think I was clueless about all this.

At first, I didn't have enough detail, so it seemed I was just some stupid person who didn't know anything. I added more detail when obviously that was misinterpreted, and made it seem like I was trying to explain to you things you already knew. I can't win either way. Either I give too little information and make it seem like I don't know what I'm saying, or I give too much and make it sound like I'm lecturing people who already know this stuff.

Also, it isn't all about you, but may be helpful information for other people reading this thread who might not actually know...


----------



## Markrs (Dec 3, 2022)

If it make you both feel better, even though neither of you needed the extra info you both gave each other I found it really useful 😊


----------



## ed buller (Dec 3, 2022)

mducharme said:


> Yes, I figured, but you seemed to think I was some kind of idiot who didn't realize that these were modular synths being used, so I figured I should add more detail so that you didn't think I was clueless about all this.
> 
> At first, I didn't have enough detail, so it seemed I was just some stupid person who didn't know anything. I added more detail when obviously that was misinterpreted, and made it seem like I was trying to explain to you things you already knew. I can't win either way. Either I give too little information and make it seem like I don't know what I'm saying, or I give too much and make it sound like I'm lecturing people who already know this stuff.
> 
> Also, it isn't all about you, but may be helpful information for other people reading this thread who might not actually know...


sending hugs !

e


----------



## mducharme (Dec 3, 2022)

Also, just to clarify, when I said: "For the others, I'm not sure."

What I really meant here (and I didn't provide enough detail) is that, although I have not seen the user manual for any of these original modular synths and have no idea what they came with in terms of documentation, it could be that the printed documentation that came with the devices included some example patch diagrams to give the user a starting point, and to demonstrate some of the things that were possible. I am certainly not sure about this as I've never owned any type of hardware modular synth, I've only had them in the form of VST plugins. But in the same way that VST synth plugins come with a bunch of presets as examples, it stands to reason that some of the earlier modular synths could have included some patch diagrams in the printed manual as examples to use as a starting point. Whether they did or did not, and if they did, whether any of these were used directly by Horner, I have no idea. i.e. could there be an example patch diagram in the ARP 2600 documentation for "gunshot"? Maybe, maybe not... Or, in the same way as you might buy preset packs these days for a VST plugin, someone theoretically might have sold patch examples in print for various sounds, outside of the bundled documentation, for operators to use as starting points. Again, this may not be the case - I'm just extrapolating based on the fact that in the modern day, VST synths come with presets and you can often buy 3rd party preset packs, and so this opens up the possibility that something similar used to exist in the form of patch diagrams on paper.


----------



## ed buller (Dec 3, 2022)

For some certainly. The ARP 2600 was to a degree "pre-patched". The Serge Not. Jerry Goldsmith was good at making his own patches, I am not sure about James Horner. I'll ask Chriss as he has spoken to his wife. This was a time when Keys and Synths were recorded with the orchestra. Alas those days are gone.

best

e


----------



## LatinXCombo (Dec 5, 2022)

mducharme said:


> I think you read something wrong. Their page for Poltergeist says:
> 
> Available:
> 
> United States, Canada, *United Kingdom*, European Union, Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, Gibraltar, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Macedonia, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Hong Kong, People’s Republic of China, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, Laos, Brunei, Burma, Cambodia, Indonesia and the Philippines.


Take that UK! We're listing Gibraltar separate!






I also like how they alphabetized Taiwan as if it were called "Republic of China".


----------



## synthetic (Dec 5, 2022)

What’s the best case scenario for notating a synth patch? A string of SYSEX? “A good keyboardist can type that in two bars before the next downbeat.” Unless it’s a D50 preset, I think you’re just taking a best guess.


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 7, 2022)

Hell yeahhhhh


----------



## synthetic (Dec 9, 2022)

Trills everywhere, especially in the strings. Guess they’re out of fashion but so effective in the Main Title and Enterprise Clears Moorings.


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 9, 2022)

synthetic said:


> Trills everywhere, especially in the strings. Guess they’re out of fashion but so effective in the Main Title and Enterprise Clears Moorings.


I don’t know why ornamental writing fell out of favor. Fingered trems are another terrific device


----------



## MusicIstheBest (Dec 9, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> I don’t know why ornamental writing fell out of favor. Fingered trems are another terrific device


Longs and shorts. That's it. Save the trills for Mozart. (...the soulless producers and marketing department would say)


----------



## Mitchell Gibbs (Dec 10, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> I held out for a solid 2 hours… then I played this and it was all over



From about 2:45, I hear a bit of 'Futile Escape' from Horner's 'Aliens' score.


----------



## synthetic (Dec 10, 2022)

Yeah Horner was environmentally conscious, he recycled a lot of score paper. From his own scores and Prokofiev. Not difficult to find the direct quote from Battle on the Ice in that cue.


----------



## Tanarri (Dec 10, 2022)

Mitchell Gibbs said:


> From about 2:45, I hear a bit of 'Futile Escape' from Horner's 'Aliens' score.


Star Trek 2, Star Trek 3, Battle Beyond the Stars, Krull, Aliens... they all share similar (euphemism) writing. All scores are great, nonetheless.


----------



## mducharme (Dec 10, 2022)

synthetic said:


> Yeah Horner was environmentally conscious, he recycled a lot of score paper. From his own scores and Prokofiev. Not difficult to find the direct quote from Battle on the Ice in that cue.


Battle on the Ice isn't the only quote there, there is also the quote from the Dies Irae movement of Britten's _Sinfonia da Requiem _(in "Genesis Countdown").


----------



## José Herring (Dec 19, 2022)

This was the score that started it all for me. I wore this record out in high school. Love this score.


----------



## Tronam (Thursday at 2:23 PM)

I still think this is among Horner's best scores and its influence can be heard on so many of his others.


----------



## José Herring (Friday at 1:43 AM)

dcoscina said:


> I held out for a solid 2 hours… then I played this and it was all over



The writing on this is insane. Still as fresh today as when I first heard it in '82.


----------



## dcoscina (Friday at 5:00 AM)

Horner wasn’t the most original composer but he was able to transform material so beautifully to match the film . Additionally he wrote extremely long cues and had a solid grasp of extended symphonic form perhaps like no other composer we have seen in the last 40 years.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Saturday at 7:18 AM)

This is one of my all time favorite scores. This was my first purchase from Omni and happy about it. Anyone know if its possible to purchase from them in larger format print? This 9x12 format is very squinty for me, like I can't possibly read this music without holding the book 5 inches from my face.


----------



## rmak (Saturday at 8:37 AM)

Are there sometimes sales in the website or is it $85 all year round? Thanks


----------



## dcoscina (Saturday at 9:15 AM)

rmak said:


> Are there sometimes sales in the website or is it $85 all year round? Thanks


Haven’t seen sales ever. Likely because this is the minimum Omni can make any money on their product since they have hefty copyright license fees to shell out to publish scores like these


----------

