# K2: Getting Westgate winds non-X-fade patches to crossfade dynamics?



## JT3_Jon (Mar 22, 2009)

Hello everyone,

First off, let me say I LOVE the Westgate winds! They sound amazing! However, not all their patches have dynamic crossfades, which IMO is a MUST! Of course they have X-fade patches, but some of my favorite patches, (e.g. the Non-vibrato to vibrato X-fade) uses mod wheel for a different purpose at the sacrifice of dynamic control. Perhaps I'm spoiled by VSL VI where every patch has dynamic crossfades, but I would like to re-program these patches to use a midi CC, perhaps Expression CC#11, to control the dynamics of the Westgate winds. 

However, I'm a complete newbe when it comes to programing patches in Kontakt. How doable is this undertaking? Any advice on how to go about this would be GREATLY appreciated! Thank you in advance for your help and reply.


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## lee (Mar 22, 2009)

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## Camus (Mar 24, 2009)

I use Nil´s Xfade script for the Westgate Woods. They work almost fine even together with the sripted Legato patches of the Westgate woods. Just insert the xfade script in slot 2 behind the WG-script. 

One big benefit is, that the Xfade script can be enabled/disabled via midi. So you can assign a CC (like a pedal switch cc4) to switch between Velocity-patch and crossfade patch on the fly.

You can also assign any CC for the crossfade. Maybe that works to have both: the dynamic crossfade (to be newly assigned) and the NV - Vib crossfade (with the existing CC1).
I just did a quick check. It seems to work.

Hope that helps


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## Mr. Anxiety (Mar 24, 2009)

Hey Camus,

I just re-tried putting the XFade script in slot 2 after Westgate's Legato script, and the dynamic layering works, but the legato aspect from the original script stops working, so I'm not able to have both things I need simultaneously.

Would you check yours again and see if that's the case with you as well. If you have both, then I need to find out what's different.

BTW- I'm on K2.2.4 and Nils' script for K2.2.

Thanks,

Mr. A.


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## Aaron Dirk (Mar 24, 2009)

No worries Mr. A

I posted the thread here too

I have since picked up the woodwind DVD's
But I've been working on different ways of programming them

gone is the expression pedal use.
you do need a mod wheel, pitch bend, sus pedal for realtime control

Modwheel contols the XF sustains (vib and non)
Pitch bend controls timemachine with the vibrato sus (pitchbending disabled)
0 is normal vib. 
push up and the vibrato increases in speed
pull back and the vib slows and halfway down it xf to no vib.
both wheels work together really nicely

press sustain pedal to get staccato/marcato
mod up - staccato, mod down -marcato 
pitch bend again works timemachine
push up speeds the short notes into shorter notes
pull back just slightly makes them longer

no keyswitches or expression pedals to deal with
only con, is it uses time machine on the vib sustain and the short notes, and it loads the entire sample into ram (409mb for english horn)

Please try it out (everyone interested) and throw back some feedback
perhaps I'll finish the others and throw them up too if everyone is interested

Westgate English Horn
www.AaronDirk.com/Westgate/EnglishHorn_Time.nkm


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## Mr. Anxiety (Mar 24, 2009)

Hey Aaron,

Yeah, I've used your patches from time to time. Nice work!

BTW- I was starting to do your treatment on some of the other winds, and ran into one snag. How do you get the NV and Vib instruments to play in mono mode? Can't seem to find it; they always play in poly mode for me.

Anyway, I'll check out your English Horn programming and give you some feedback.

Keep it up!

Mr. A.


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## Camus (Mar 25, 2009)

Hey Mr.A.

I doublechecked now, what happens when putting Nils Xfadescript behind the Westgate Leg-script.

You are right, that it is not the same in total. The Legato script is affected in terms of Monomode. You are getting polyphonic. That´s right. 
So the transient sound changes a little bit.
But the transient noise samples that are triggered when playing legato do work. 
And these transients are the most important thing. 
The almost Monophonic - sound is left to the playing style, beeing accurate. But for sure there is a little difference.

You might check by turning the volume of the attack group in group editor down, so you can hear the transients better.Or you select let´s say the "Leg up 12" group and òã™   šXÂãš   šXÃãš   šXÄãš   šXÅãš   šXÆãš   šXÇãš   šXÈãš   šXÉãš   šXÊãš   šXËãš   šXÌãš   šXÍãš   šXÎãš   šXÏãš   šXÐãš   šXÑãš   šXÒãš   šXÓãš   šXÔãš   šXÕãš   šXÖã›   šX×ã›   šXØã›   šXÙã›   šXÚã›   šXÛã›   šXÜã›   šXÝã›   šXÞã›   šXßã›   šXàã›   šXáã›   šXâã›   šXãã›   šXäã›   šXåã›   šXæã›   šXçã›   šXèã›   šXéã›   šXêã›   šXëã›   šXìã›   šXíã›   šXîã›   šXïã›   šXðãœ   šXñãœ   šXòãœ   šXóãœ   šXôãœ


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## Mr. Anxiety (Mar 25, 2009)

Thanks Camus, for verifying this info. 

I'll have a play and see how the transitions behave, polyphonically. I guess that could be a benefit, but having to be accurate with the mono lines just takes more time. That's my negative to it. At least the XFade script is behaving, which is great.

Check out Aaron's programming. It's very cool, and helpful, keeping things on one midi track.

Mr. A


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## Aaron Dirk (Mar 25, 2009)

To get the XF to be monophonic, you need to account for the all the voices it needs to use. 
basically with the XF, you're controlling the volume of each velocity layer (which is separated into groups)
In most cases with Westgate, there's just 4 velocity groups in the xf patches
So then the XF nki would need 4 voices to be monophonic.

I really like Nil's XF script, but haven't been posting multis with them, being I'm a commercial developer.
But now that I think about it, I'm not affiliated with Westgate, I'm just a happy user.
So I don't think there would be any harm in it as I'm not technically using it commercially.

Unless anyone objects, I'll try incorporating Nils XF script into the above English Horn and post it


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## Aaron Dirk (Mar 25, 2009)

To use Nil's XF script in just the Westgate Legato instrument in a monophonic manner, with 4 velocity layers, limit the voices to 8.

This is the above English Horn using Nil's XF script
www.AaronDirk.com/Westgate/EnglishHorn_Time_Nils.nkm

I am however experiencing problems with Nil's script, it seems to quit working after a few minutes. 
I tried it on several other instruments, but found the same results kept happening.
If I reset the engine or reload the script it works fine again, but only for a short time.
It does sound better with Nil's XF script than normal XF, as long as it's working
I'm currently using it in Kontakt 2.2.4

Is anyone else having this problem with Nil's XFade V0.6 K22 script?


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## Hannes_F (Mar 31, 2009)

Aaron,
I tried your other script for the Oboe and think it is very good. Would you mind to post your Nils XF version for Oboe? Thank you.


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## Aaron Dirk (Mar 31, 2009)

I just made two different versions for Oboe with Nils XF script
www.AaronDirk.com/Westgate/Oboe_Time_Nils.nkm 
www.AaronDirk.com/Westgate/Oboe_Nils.nkm

Gone is the expression pedal use (from the previous Oboe).
You do need a mod wheel, pitch bend, sus pedal for realtime control
Everyone should at least have these (you're pretty lame if you don't :twisted: )
*
Oboe_Time_Nils.nkm* (0.51gb)
Using Kontakt's Timemachine to control vibrato speed and short note length

Modwheel contols the XF sustains (vib and non)
Pitch bend controls timemachine with the vibrato sus (pitchbending disabled)
0 pb is normal vib.
push up pb and the vibrato increases in speed
pull back pb and the vib slows and halfway down it xf to no vib.
both wheels work together really nicely

press sustain pedal to get staccato/marcato
modwh up - staccato, modwh down - marcato
pitch bend again works timemachine
push up pb speeds the short notes into shorter notes
pull back pb just slightly makes them longer

no keyswitches or expression pedals to deal with 

*Oboe_Nils.nkm* (166.59mb)
Same as above, but DFD version, you can't control vibrato speed, nor short note length
But uses less ram

If you're using 32bit OS, obviously the Timemachine multi will tax you on ram, especially once I get the other winds done. I made a normal DFD version for situations like this. You can either just stick with the DFD version(s), or perhaps load the Timemachine and bounce down when finished. The expressive benefits with Timemachine are well worth it IMO.


Next up is the Clarinet, which will be just like the above, but will also incorporate the Glissando's into the multi =o


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## Hannes_F (Mar 31, 2009)

Aaron, very much appreciated, thank you!


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