# SSD reliability after heat exposure?



## ka00 (Jun 17, 2022)

I have a 4TB Samsung QVO SSD. Has been working well for over a year. Recently started getting data corruption. Sample libraries wouldn't play back, some NKIs would throw an error message, or mic positions wouldn't load, or there would be weird digital sounding glitches.

I took the SSD in for testing at a computer shop that acts as regional gatekeeper before Samsung will do a replacement. They tested it out and the drive passed all of their tests apparently. So no replacement for me.

Now I'm left with a 4TB drive I do not fully trust. I've replaced the enclosure and cable just in case.

One possible culprit for the data corruption could be heat. I had the enclosure velcro'd to the stand of my iMac. But as it turns out, that's roughly where the heat exhausts from the computer. And it's been somewhat hot in my room recently.

So, maybe it was heat exposure that created the problem. Okay, but *now that the drive is moved away from a heat source, does any expert out there know if it's safe to trust this SSD again?* Also, did I severely reduce its lifespan by running it hot for a long time?

Thanks!


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## Technostica (Jun 17, 2022)

SSDs usually have internal sensors that measure their temperature and they will throttle performance if they get too hot to help cool down. 
So the drive shouldn't have been damaged irreparably. 
Have you used a software tool to check the SMART data? 
That will report all kinds of internal error stats.


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## ka00 (Jun 17, 2022)

Technostica said:


> Have you used a software tool to check the SMART data?


Just looking into this now. I'm trying to understand if I need to convert my SSD's file system to APFS for the SMART features to work. Let me see what happens after I convert.


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## Technostica (Jun 17, 2022)

ka00 said:


> Just looking into this now. I'm trying to understand if I need to convert my SSD's file system to APFS for the SMART features to work. Let me see what happens after I convert.


The SMART data is for the hardware level rather than the software level. 
Try Samsung's own tool as well as that may report hardware errors and have a test facility.


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## MartinH. (Jun 17, 2022)

ka00 said:


> Recently started getting data corruption.


I would never trust that drive again and it's a joke that samsung doesn't replace the drive yet because they have been becoming increasingly infamous for unreliable SSDs. I would save what you can, replace the drive, and then maybe try to provoke more errors on the drive to get it replaced under warranty. I had a samsung SSD that was in a similar state as well and I couldn't be bothered to replace it because it wasn't a lot of important stuff on it, and it only took a few months till it was super broken and I got it replaced under warranty.


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## EgM (Jun 17, 2022)

ka00 said:


> Just looking into this now. I'm trying to understand if I need to convert my SSD's file system to APFS for the SMART features to work. Let me see what happens after I convert.


I would think a filesystem convert is very stressful for a dying SSD, like @Technostica said, SMART data is hardware it doesn't care about what's on the disk


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## ka00 (Jun 17, 2022)

Technostica said:


> The SMART data is for the hardware level rather than the software level.
> Try Samsung's own tool as well as that may report hardware errors and have a test facility.


On Mac OS, under SMART status: it says "Not Supported" for my various SSDs. Not sure why. Also, Samsung's Magician tool doesn't seem to run on Mac OS.



MartinH. said:


> I would save what you can, replace the drive, and then maybe try to provoke more errors on the drive to get it replaced under warranty.


Yeah, I think that has to be the plan now. Use it until it fails but make sure everything is backed up. I was able to redownload a lot of my libraries. There's one dev who is charging a little fee for a re-download so I have to do that once I know the drive is fully working again.



EgM said:


> I would think a filesystem convert is very stressful for a dying SSD, like @Technostica said, SMART data is hardware it doesn't care about what's on the disk


Could be, that's true. Except that the computer technicians said it isn't dying. And they wiped the SSD clean apparently, so not to stressful in fact.

Thanks everyone!


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## MartinH. (Jun 17, 2022)

ka00 said:


> And they wiped the SSD clean apparently, so not to stressful in fact.


How long did that take? There is a difference between a quick format and writing 0's into every bit of the drive. It should take hours to do a full format, and more like seconds for a quick format. 



ka00 said:


> On Mac OS, under SMART status: it says "Not Supported" for my various SSDs. Not sure why. Also, Samsung's Magician tool doesn't seem to run on Mac OS.


All external? Could be the fault of the drive enclosures. Afaik they often don't allow reading out SMART status.


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## Technostica (Jun 17, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> How long did that take? There is a difference between a quick format and writing 0's into every bit of the drive. It should take hours to do a full format, and more like seconds for a quick format.
> 
> 
> All external? Could be the fault of the drive enclosures. Afaik they often don't allow reading out SMART status.


You 'secure erase' an SSD which is very quick from memory.

I have a few USB enclosures and they both pass SMART data. 
Any decent modern enclosure should support it. 
No idea how macOS handles it though. 
I use CrystalDiskInfo on Windows.
​


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## ka00 (Jun 17, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> How long did that take? There is a difference between a quick format and writing 0's into every bit of the drive. It should take hours to do a full format, and more like seconds for a quick format.


The initial wipe of my corrupt data was done by the techs without me being present. As for converting it to APFS, I just reformatted the SSD using APFS as the file system. Took a few seconds.



MartinH. said:


> All external? Could be the fault of the drive enclosures. Afaik they often don't allow reading out SMART status.


Yeah, I don't know too much about this, but from what I think I read, Apple discontinued support for SMART on external SSDs. I found an app out there that apparently will let you run some diagnostics, but I think I'll just run with this drive (backed up elsewhere) until it dies. I'm really hoping it was just some momentary indigestion due to being placed next to the exhaust vents of my iMac and the fact that the ambient temp in my room is around 26c.

I also read that APFS is better for SSDs and less prone to data corruption than HFS+. So hopefully this will help.


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## Technostica (Jun 17, 2022)

Most drives develop some faults over time but they are often handled invisibly by the drive.
There is spare area on drives which is mapped in to replace faulty areas which are then no longer used.
Sometimes these faults result in the operating system seeing a drive error if the firmware alone cannot resolve it.
At this point you may lose data although maybe not much.
So the odd issue doesn't necessarily mean that the whole drive is close to failing or that more errors will occur soon.

The SMART data gives low level diagnostic info and that can point to a drive that is at risk.
If a drive has a significant number of blocks that have been removed from service and not many left in reserve, that's the time to be concerned.


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## ssnowe (Jun 17, 2022)

Could be an issue regarding TRIM, typically external drives don't get trimmed/garbage collected on a mac. Regarding heat, stick a heatsink to the outside of the drive enclosure (can be found on Amazon for a few dollars). I have these on my external enclosures and they run a lot cooler.


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## ka00 (Jun 17, 2022)

ssnowe said:


> Could be an issue regarding TRIM, typically external drives don't get trimmed/garbage collected on a mac. Regarding heat, stick a heatsink to the outside of the drive enclosure (can be found on Amazon for a few dollars). I have these on my external enclosures and they run a lot cooler.


I'll look into that, thanks! The enclosures I have are cheap clear plastic Orico ones. I think maybe I should drill some small air holes in them if the plastic is soft enough not to crack.


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## Technostica (Jun 17, 2022)

It's useful being able to run a utility such as CrystalDiskInfo as it also shows drive temperatures.
My previous PCIe boot drive idled at ~50C, whereas my current one which has a heatsink is currently at 35C.
My other 4 SSDs including one just plugged into to use for a daily backup are in the range 22 - 29 centigrade.


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## ssnowe (Jun 18, 2022)

ka00 said:


> I'll look into that, thanks! The enclosures I have are cheap clear plastic Orico ones. I think maybe I should drill some small air holes in them if the plastic is soft enough not to crack.


I have been using external metal enclosures since they seem to transfe heat better then plastic.

I also use the double sided heat transfer tape (usually comes with the heatsinks) attached to the nvme inside the enclosure and then sticking to the inside of the enclosure cover. On the outside of the enclosure I attach the heatsink with the same double sided heat transfer tape directly above the nvme drive. This works well to radiate the heat out to the heatsink fins.

I use owc thunderbolt 3 external enclosures for the nvme drives and have been seeing really good read/write times.


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## Technostica (Jun 18, 2022)

ssnowe said:


> I have been using external metal enclosures since they seem to transfe heat better then plastic.
> 
> I also use the double sided heat transfer tape (usually comes with the heatsinks) attached to the nvme inside the enclosure and then sticking to the inside of the enclosure cover. On the outside of the enclosure I attach the heatsink with the same double sided heat transfer tape directly above the nvme drive. This works well to radiate the heat out to the heatsink fins.


Temperature is often an issue with NVMe drives but rarely with 2.5" SATA drives.


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## ssnowe (Jun 18, 2022)

Technostica said:


> Temperature is often an issue with NVMe drives but rarely with 2.5" SATA drives.


Agreed. Nvmes like to run hot.

I have been using external thunderbolt connected nvme drives for a couple of years now and have gotten used to the difference in speed over the sata ssd's.

You wouldn't think the speed difference would matter all that much but I found waiting on loads from some of the bigger kontakt libraries feels like it takes forever off a sata ssd versus what seems like instant loading from nvme.


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## charlieclouser (Jun 18, 2022)

I have a single QVO 8tb drive in my rig, in a BlackMagic MultiDock, but I'm using only for the least-write-intensive libraries - basically just "ROMpler" type stuff like Sine + Play/Opus + Spitfire Player + Vienna. Nothing that I'm likely to do much writing to except for downloading, installing, and updates. 

For moderate-write stuff, like Kontakt libraries, I use EVO drives, and for write-intensive stuff like EXS24 / Logic Sampler libraries, my WAV loops, and project files, I only use PRO series drives.

All Samsung, all the time. 

I've never had any errors like what OP is describing - weird noises, clicks, or semi-corrupted files. If a drive goes bad, it disappears from the desktop completely! However I suspect that the few times this has happened, it's been a software corruption issue as I've almost always been able to reformat the drive and get it back in service, although the files are gone. Only once have I completely bricked a drive so badly that it couldn't be re-formatted, so that one might have been an actual hardware failure. Into the e-waste bin it went.

Backup, backup, backup. I just ordered another stack of HGST UltraStar 16tb CMR SATA3 mechanical hard drives to expand my six-copy, Pelican-case, safe-deposit-box backup array. It's painful and slow, but better than losing data! As I'm backing up my stuff I'm seeing files from 30+ years ago being copied intact, so my caution is still paying off...


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## ka00 (Jun 18, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> I suspect that the few times this has happened, it's been a software corruption issue as I've almost always been able to reformat the drive and get it back in service,


That’s good to hear, Charlie. Hopefully I’ll have the same experience. 


charlieclouser said:


> Backup, backup, backup.


Yeah, good advice. Just bought a 5TB portable hdd to back this ssd up.


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## HCMarkus (Jun 18, 2022)

Did Mr. Clouser say "Backup?" 

YES! 

While most of us may not need _quite_ the extent of backup capacity Charlie requires, keeping a couple of large external spinners around and backing up everything there regularly saves time and money and is proven to reduce hair loss. 

The data you save may be your own.

I've been using 8TB Seagate Externals for several years now. Last time I checked, Costco had these for a really nice $120/ea price, and they include a 2-port USB Hub. I also use BackBlaze as my cloud backup. My studio burned to the ground once. Tears were shed. Need I say more?

I must throw in my concerns re: QLC SSDs. Large capacity, yes, but not nearly as robust as TLC SSDs, and certainly not good if they get a lot of write activity. The aforementioned lack of Mac Trim support over USB is also a potential issue. I try to use USB-connected SSDs only for read-only (or read-mostly) data. Thunderbolt does support Trim, so is the preferred mode of external SSD connection when there is a lot of disk read/write activity.


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## Pictus (Jun 20, 2022)

If TRIM is not available, no problem for reading stuff, but to write...
You can remediate the lack of TRIM with an enterprise class drive.
The Kingston DC500M is optimized for writing https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/sedc500r_us.pdf 


https://pcpartpicker.com/products/internal-hard-drive/#c0=di_sata.60&t=0&sort=-a_capacity&m=23&page=1


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## ssnowe (Jun 20, 2022)

One other thought.

It appears that Apple has been adjusting the latest versions of MacOS to be more conservative when powering external usbc/usb3 drives. Long story short, there have been numerous stories where mac based usb external ssd drives are having power related problems and failing on a mac. 

The fix seems to be using the external drive attached to a powered hub rather than directly to the mac. As always, your mileage may vary.


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## kitekrazy (Jun 21, 2022)

It is a faulty drive. You can reformat run diagnostics all day and it will pass. The only accurate test is when it completely dies. This has been my experience with all drives.
SSDs are expensive and the only speed measurement I care about is the speed of RMA service. Looks like Samsung is a fail here. I had an Intel drive fail and sure it passed those test and the only test it was bad is when it crashed. All of the support yada yada works but since it was Intel I told them I prefer to have it replaced and end of story. Since Intel sold off their SSD I will probably only stick with WD because of their RMA service.


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