# Compositional Approach: Poly-clusters



## Frederick Russ (Sep 18, 2004)

Sid's recent mp3 submission, _Conference of the Birds_, explores poly-clusters:

http://82.157.32.167/downloads/the_conference_of_the_birds.mp3 (http://82.157.32.167/downloads/the_conf ... _birds.mp3) 




Sid_Barnhoorn said:


> Basically what I do is modulate now and then but what I also do is use clusters. I mostly do this with clarinet and bassoons played at piano velocity. For example:
> 
> I'll use 2 or 3 clarinets which play a chord of 3 tones. Under that I'll put 2 or 3 bassoons also playing 2 intervals or a 3 tone chord but one that totally differs from the one the clarinets plays and maybe even in another key.
> 
> ...



I like the way you're exploring polytonality and appreciate you sharing this glimpse into the mindset behind what's you're doing. Like the Vulcan motto: infinite possibilities in infinite combinations.

Thanks again! This is helpful.

(Original Topic split into new topic by administrative team in its exploration of _poly-topics_ lol)


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Patrick, Frederick,

Thanks for the words. Maybe this technique is worthy material for a post in the *Composition, Orchestration & Technique *section. What ya say?

Take care,
-Sid.


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## Frederick Russ (Sep 19, 2004)

Done :D


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## Mike M (Sep 19, 2004)

"I'll use 2 or 3 clarinets which play a chord of 3 tones. Under that I'll put 2 or 3 bassoons also playing 2 intervals or a 3 tone chord but one that totally differs from the one the clarinets plays and maybe even in another key. Put those together playing at piano velocity and you'll get a very interesting ambience. And with "Conference" I'd let the oboe and the English horn play 2 diffirent melodies at the same time. At the end the oboe playing a wholetone-scale structure and the English Horn playing something totally diffirent."

:D This is a very different and refreshing approach. Nice work! 

Is this something you learned in theory or something you're pioneering?


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Mike,

This has evolved after alot of experimenting with it. I got interested in the technique after I heard the soundtrack of 2001 - A Space Odessey, where Ligeti used very colourful and interesting "clustering" to get that eerie and other-worldy feel to it. I began playing with this technique and found it to be very useful to creat colourful passages and a interesting plane for theme's. I got a little clusters-test which might be interesting for people who which to learn more about it:

http://82.157.32.167/downloads/clusters.mp3

It's very simple and I use 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons and 2 oboes in it. They all change tone in intervals.

For example you can let the clarinets hold the tone for 1 bar, then it modulates to another interval. The bassoons hold their tone for 3/4 of a bar and then modulate and the oboes do this for 2/4 and so on. At the end you'll get a mixture of palets that makes you wanna listen where this is going.

But these are just the basics. It becomes more interesting when you weave melodies onto these clusters. I hope this is informative. If there you wanna know anymore, don't hestitate.

BTW, I also got msn... [email protected]

Take care,
-Sid.


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## Niah (Sep 20, 2004)

I don't know why, but I can't download sid's mp3.
Anyways so that I can understand what everyone is talking about, wasn't that poly-clusters "technique" widly explored by gy?rgy ligeti?


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## Niah (Sep 20, 2004)

Oups! I guess I didn't read sid's post very carefully heehhe

I've been interessed in clustering for a while, and since I have imerged myself onto the orchestral sample library realm I've been dying to explore some of this. 
Unfortunatly there is always little time for explorations so, I put it on hold.
But I am happy to heard that I am not alone on this 

Now I haven't heard the mp3s because I couldn't download it, but judging from the comments from other users it could only be good.

I would also like to see people experimenting stuff with strings in penderecki-style


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Sep 20, 2004)

Hi Niah,

My server was probably down but I'm gonna get other webspace on a fast Linux server which will make my stuff available all day.

And answer to your query: Yes, it was explored by Ligeti and it was because of him that I'l began exploring it myself when I first heard 2001 - A Space Odessey soundtrack. I was facinated by the colouring and pallets of tones he composed for the score.

I hope you get time to download "Conference of the Birds" and "Clusters". I've implimented these clustering techniques into them and I'm currently busy with a new suite (opus) inwhich I will use this technique more extensively. If you've got any questions, just burst it out. 

I also got msn btw: [email protected]

Take care,
-Sid.


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## Niah (Sep 21, 2004)

Thank you very must for your atention. I heard the mp3s and they sound great, congratulations for your great job.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Sep 21, 2004)

A technique that I learned back in my school days that is not directly cluster based but might give controlled dissonant results:
Write a lead line that appeals to you. Then write a bass line totally independent from the lead (don't even try to remember the lead line while writing the bass) then look at the two combined and fill in the middle part with voicings that reconcile the lead and bass part.
I was very surprised back then at the cool results one could come up with when using this independent voices writing technique.
I recommend starting with a 2 bar exercise with quarter notes/8th notes lead voice...


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## Frederick Russ (Sep 21, 2004)

Great tip Patrick. I'll try this in the next few days and see how it goes.

~Frederick


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Sep 22, 2004)

Interesting approach, Patrick. I used to do that to in my early days. It works surprisingly well too indeed. Thanks for the input...

Take care,
-Sid.


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