# Epic but not dull



## lux (May 16, 2009)

when having lunch tv was airing Spiderman 3, and while watchin in again i noticed how many parts of the score have the current "epic" ingredients, like big choirs, ostinato strings, powerful horns and the like.

Fact is that Elfman never sounds "dull" to me. It means to me that probably there is more than one chance to obtain whats considered "current" without sounding stupid enough. Elfman uses lot of modulations harmonically and this is probably one of the main reasons his music sounds always challenging. Another reason probably is introducing small cool things in arrangement thats produces an unique signature and increases listening fun. 

So, after reading on this board every day the old debate about old school and new school, about "if you want to be current to have to be simple or you'll never find a girlfriend" versus the Zimmer haters probably we could all find a few minutes to focus on how we could try to be current, engaging and fun at the same time. How same ingredients could produce really different things.And how sometimes "old" things like harmony affect today's film music.

Whats you opinion?


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## TheoKrueger (May 16, 2009)

I believe that things like trailer cues with big choirs and the rest make an impact while you are watching the movie and cause some tension and release mostly that helps elevate a feeling of grandoire and puts you in the film.. but temporarily.

While harmony is something that you carry inside of you after the film is finished. Its like harmony has the "essence" while trailer music has the impact.

Truth is that not only the music has changed, the films themselves have changed and the general mentality nowadays. Everything is faster, shallower, and the music has to suit the film.

In the past there were films about love, deep stories, human feelings. Now its mostly about Action, on-screen elements, CG graphics... there are ofcourse films that look on the human sides and are more dramatic, but they are the few in the lot. Compared to the past at least.

I guess the composers need to serve the film industry, if the film industry has changed, it is inevitable for the composers to follow the new mentality as well, and perhaps put aside temporarily their classical past and the hours of listening to music with meaning.

Perhaps, hopefully, one day the gap between emotion and relentless action will be bridged to something more... sane and human.

On a last note, simplicity is really what's left when everything useless has been cast out. Its perhaps the most difficult thing to be a simple person, let alone to write simple music, but it should be the most natural thing.

Edit: A "simple" person can be taken in many ways. When i imagine of a simple person i think of someone without pride, without an ego obscuring everything in their way and without a big idea of one's own self. 

I once told a girl "I like you because you are so simple". Needless to say she took it the wrong way :lol:


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## bluejay (May 16, 2009)

One quick point, Spiderman 3 is Christopher Young not Danny Elfman.


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## lux (May 16, 2009)

bluejay @ Sat May 16 said:


> One quick point, Spiderman 3 is Christopher Young not Danny Elfman.



oh...it sounded a lot like elfman. Probably he took parts from the old stuff, i dunno.

Well, this applies to the previous movies too (that i hope is elfman )


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## Farkle (May 16, 2009)

TheoKrueger @ Sat May 16 said:


> I believe that things like trailer cues with big choirs and the rest make an impact while you are watching the movie and cause some tension and release mostly that helps elevate a feeling of grandoire and puts you in the film.. but temporarily.
> 
> While harmony is something that you carry inside of you after the film is finished. Its like harmony has the "essence" while trailer music has the impact.
> 
> ...



Theo, your points really resonate with me. My other passion is martial arts (specifically, Jeet Kune Do Concepts and Filipino Martial Arts), and much of my compositional philosophy derives from Bruce Lee's writings and conversations on art. 

What I really love about Bruce Lee is what he comes back to, time, and time, again. This quote is lifted from one of his interviews:

"To me, ultimately, martial arts means honestly expressing yourself. Now, it is very difficult to do. It has always been very easy for me to put on a show and be cocky, and be flooded with a cocky feeling and feel pretty cool and all that. I can make all kinds of phony things. Blinded by it. Or I can show some really fancy movement. But to experience oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, and to express myself honestly, now that is very hard to do." (Bruce Lee)

That quote is pretty much one of the most important tenets that I have taken away from my journey as a composer, and as a martial artist. To really look inside oneself, peel away the non-essential techniques that may look flashy, but, in essence, stem from the artist's desire to impress others... that is so hard to do, but is so rewarding.

That's not to say that huge and epic is not honest or authentic... but it has to come from our internal desire to say something, not our desire to appear "flashy". Listen to the end of Beethoven's 9th. That's epic...really huge! Or, finale of "Firebird" by Stravinsky. Huge, and epic. But both those pieces bring tears to my eyes, because they are so emotionally powerful, and feel like they come straight from the artist's heart.

And, when an artist starts to truly express one's self honestly and simply (meaning, stripping away what the artist feels are non-essentials), some truly memorable and powerful art is created.

And, IMHO, how fulfilling is that, when an artist can truly take those first steps towards writing something that expresses what he is truly feeling? That, to me, is what we, as artists all strive for. Whether it's a beautiful blues guitar solo, or an epic trailer... as long as we listen to our work, and feel those "goosebumps" from having said something true, honest, and authentic to ourselves... well, that is the greatest thing in the world, IMHO.

I will say that one composer I really respect, who (I think) has really expressed himself authentically is Bear McCreary. His themes, orchestration, and drama are very powerful, and feel like they speak to me. And, when I read his blog, and read how he came up with his cues, I can sense his excitement and artistic commitment to how he wrote his music. And, it's still very commercially appropriate to the project. Best of both worlds!

Anyways, this is me rambling on a rainy Saturday in Philly. Long and short... study JKD! 

Mike


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## bluejay (May 16, 2009)

lux @ Sat May 16 said:


> bluejay @ Sat May 16 said:
> 
> 
> > One quick point, Spiderman 3 is Christopher Young not Danny Elfman.
> ...



Yeah the first two were Elfman and yes Christopher Young did get to re-use some of the older stuff. 

Actually if Wikipedia is correct (and it frequently isn't) it seems that Elfman did help out on Spidey 3 but also Young helped work on Spidey 2 as well.

Anyway I think the Spiderman music is pretty cool overall and uses a lot of Elfman trademarks (not least being big tritone chord changes!)


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## Frederick Russ (May 16, 2009)

Its seems that some of the Epic things that are happening lately borrow the musical language syntax used in the trailers which isn't the same thing. Trailers do have risers and emotional builds but the time line for doing so is vastly accelerated - cutting to the climaxes at a far faster rate and then get out. 

I think Elfman and Young do a great job at building themes using the emotional ebb and flow of dynamic writing but can still bring it up to emotional crescendos which should be the language of film anyway imo. Don't get me wrong - I do like some trailer music done masterfully as its a different genre altogether. Trying to build a movie soundtrack using trailer props however can get dull fast because the emotional resonance has nowhere else to go because everything seems written full blast for 20 minute intervals which may also have a lot to do with how the film editing is done. The last Pirates movie - if memory serves well - had a sequence of at least twenty to twenty five minutes of action so as a composer trying to keep the energy up without getting boring is a true challenge. I truly wonder how others would approach adding music to film editing like that. 

Elfman is super-detailed in his writing and orchestration in the Spiderman franchise - especially the action sequences - but again the film editing does seem to have a higher emotional dynamic lending more opportunities to do likewise with the music. That said, Elfman is a superb film composer and seems to take advantage of every opportunity to make scenes shine to make the movie better.


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## TheoKrueger (May 16, 2009)

Farkle @ Sat May 16 said:


> Theo, your points really resonate with me. My other passion is martial arts (specifically, Jeet Kune Do Concepts and Filipino Martial Arts), and much of my compositional philosophy derives from Bruce Lee's writings and conversations on art.
> 
> What I really love about Bruce Lee is what he comes back to, time, and time, again. This quote is lifted from one of his interviews:
> 
> ...



Thanks for understanding and being able to empathize my view point Mike,

I believe that martial arts and the other arts share a lot in common. Discipline, focus, creativity, expression, balance, fullfilment... a higher purpose of refining our own perfection. They do also complement one another well, martial arts for the spirit and the body, music for the mind and the soul.

One quote ithat comes to mind is from Jesus, who says

"26 And how do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul in the process?"

I believe that sometimes we need to take a hard look at ourselves and judge against our ambitions and expectations to realize what path we are treading on. To not expect anything from oneself and otheròÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡	ÿR   ¡ ÿR   ¡	!ÿR   ¡	"ÿR   ¡	#ÿR   ¡	$ÿR   ¡	%ÿR   ¡	&ÿR   ¡	'ÿR   ¡	(ÿR   ¡	)ÿR   ¡	*ÿR   ¡	+ÿR   ¡	,ÿR   ¡	-ÿR   ¡	.ÿR   ¡	/ÿR   ¡	0ÿR   ¡	1ÿR   ¡	2ÿR   ¡	3ÿR   ¡	4ÿR   ¡	5ÿR   ¡	6ÿR   ¡	7ÿR   ¡	8ÿR   ¡	9ÿR   ¡	:ÿR   ¡	;ÿR   ¡	<ÿR   ¡	=ÿR   ¡	>ÿR   ¡	?ÿR   ¡	@ÿR   ¡	AÿR   ¡	BÿR   ¡	CÿR   ¡	DÿR   ¡	EÿR   ¡	FÿR   ¡	GÿR   ¡	HÿR   ¡	IÿR   ¡	JÿR   ¡	KÿR   ¡	LÿR   ¡	MÿR   ¡	NÿR   ¡	OÿR   ¡	PÿR   ¡	QÿR   ¡	RÿR   ¡	SÿR   ¡	TÿR   ¡	UÿR   ¡	VÿR   ¡	WÿR   ¡	XÿR   ¡	YÿR   ¡	ZÿR   ¡	[ÿR   ¡	\ÿR   ¡	]ÿR   ¡	^ÿR   ¡	_ÿR   ¡	`ÿR   ¡	aÿR   ¡	bÿR   ¡	cÿR   ¡	dÿR   ¡	eÿR   ¡	fÿR   ¡	gÿR   ¡	hÿR   ¡	iÿS   ¡	jÿS   ¡	kÿS   ¡	lÿS   ¡	mÿS   ¡	nÿS   ¡	oÿS   ¡	pÿS   ¡	qÿS   ¡	rÿS   ¡	sÿS   ¡	tÿS   ¡	uÿS   ¡	vÿS   ¡	wÿS   ¡	xÿS


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## Farkle (May 17, 2009)

Hi, Theo!

And, let me return the compliment. Your post above is spot on. Thank you for some new thoughts and adages to further give me some great philosophical guidance! 

I agree with your point about the parallels between martial arts and composing. Much of my daily "drills" in music look a lot like my martial arts drills, (jab-cross to the piano, kicks to the drum kit)... 

Seriously, the idea of isolating techniques, and drilling them, then putting them into a "real world" matrix, is a common technique for learning how to compose, and to train the martial arts. Leon Willett's posts on his film scoring blog are exactly the way to train those ideas.

Anyways, good to share a little philosophy with a fellow composer!

Mike


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## kid-surf (May 17, 2009)

Theo --

Your first post resonates with me, particularly this...



> Truth is that not only the music has changed, the films themselves have changed and the general mentality nowadays. Everything is faster, shallower, and the music has to suit the film.
> 
> In the past there were films about love, deep stories, human feelings. Now its mostly about Action, on-screen elements, CG graphics... there are ofcourse films that look on the human sides and are more dramatic, but they are the few in the lot. Compared to the past at least.
> 
> ...



This is one (HUGE) aspect I rarely see addressed here. In many ways I "try" to be altruistic, authentic, honest, sincere in my own work [now screenwriting] in an attempt to create something "sane and human". Problem is NOBODY WANTS TO MAKE THOSE SORTS OF MOVIES ANYMORE...well, very few do. _Almost_ nobody.

Now a days I'm the guy at the very beginning of this [film] process, so I can tell you that it's not looking good out there. Obviously, the screenwriter is years ahead of where the composer comes in. So, doing the math, this [shallowness] is not something that is going to change in the next 2-4 years...at the very least...for composers. You can look forward to several more years of shallow films to score.

I just wrote something that is "human", it's akin to The Departed/Heat/Chinatown etc., and is driven by a strong "emotional core" and doesn't have a gratuitous [shoot everyone in sight] ending. I could see Mann directing this. Problem is, I seriously doubt it gets made. 10 years ago I imagine it would have flown into production. But now? I'm not so confident. Despite the fact that industry professionals are telling me it's some of my strongest work. Oh the irony. 

So.........Now I'm gearing up to write the next one. This one has a dirt SIMPLE storyline, is high-concept, is not grounded in an "emotional core", and is more or less a shallow action flick (compared to everything else I've written). I would bet the farm that this one will get made before any of the previous scripts. 

THE SCORES: How would they differ between the two projects?

1) The previous script calls for a fantastic, more traditional score. It would be an opportunity for a composer to really dig in and "leave it all there", as they say.

2) The new one will call for a SIMPLE paint by numbers score, something that fits the marketplace. Likely based on the temp to whatever other film just did some business, which was based on a previous film that did business, etc.

I agree, it's hard to write a score that "matters", now a days, when so many of these films are only about popcorn. I would be shocked to find out that any writer's DREAM of writing these shallow films, but that's what the studio 'wants'. These shallow films are even what Indie producers want in today's marketplace. So, you dumb down your work, or you don't work. Sadly.

Swear to god, my approach to studio films is to first come up with the tittle then figure out what the movie is based on the splashy title. Sad huh... (yet my writing style is closer to someone from the mid 70's where things happened for a reason, where characters weren't one-dimensional cardboard cutouts)

My POV changes day to day, but at this time I'm willing to sell-out until (hopefully) this crap blows over and once again folks aren't terrified of making a quality film. Once a year I'll write the quality film knowing it'll likely never get made.

It's like, the shittier your script is, the better your odds it'll get made.

Not to be a wet towel, but that's what's going on out there...


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## kid-surf (May 17, 2009)

BTW -- knowing me, I'll try to force in an emotional core into this popcorn flick (Think: glossy, slick, thriller). But I've been told by many high-profile writeòÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡%ÿ©   ¡% ÿ©   ¡%!ÿª   ¡%2ÿª   ¡%3ÿª   ¡%4ÿª   ¡%5ÿª   ¡%6ÿª   ¡%7ÿª   ¡%8ÿª   ¡%9ÿª   ¡%:ÿª   ¡%;ÿª   ¡%<ÿª   ¡%=ÿª   ¡%>ÿª   ¡%?ÿª   ¡%@ÿª   ¡%Aÿª   ¡%Bÿª   ¡%Cÿª   ¡%Dÿª   ¡%Eÿª   ¡%Fÿª   ¡%Gÿª   ¡%Hÿª   ¡%Iÿª   ¡%Jÿª   ¡%Kÿª   ¡%Lÿª   ¡%Mÿª   ¡%Nÿª   ¡%Oÿª   ¡%Pÿª   ¡%Qÿª   ¡%Rÿª   ¡%Sÿª   ¡%Tÿª   ¡%Uÿª   ¡%Vÿª   ¡%Wÿª   ¡%Xÿª   ¡%Yÿª   ¡%Zÿª   ¡%[ÿª   ¡%\ÿª   ¡%]ÿª   ¡%^ÿª   ¡%_ÿª   ¡%`ÿª   ¡%aÿª   ¡%bÿª   ¡%cÿª   ¡%dÿª   ¡%eÿª   ¡%fÿª   ¡%gÿª   ¡%hÿª   ¡%iÿª   ¡%jÿª   ¡%kÿª   ¡%lÿª   ¡%mÿª   ¡%nÿª   ¡%oÿª   ¡%pÿª   ¡%qÿª   ¡% ÿª   ¡%¡ÿª   ¡%¢ÿª   ¡%£ÿª   ¡%¤ÿª   ¡%¥ÿª   ¡%¦ÿª   ¡%§ÿª   ¡%¨ÿª   ¡%©ÿª   ¡%ªÿª   ¡%«ÿª   ¡%¬ÿª   ¡%­ÿª   ¡%®ÿª   ¡%¯ÿª   ¡%°ÿª   ¡%±ÿª   ¡%²ÿª   ¡


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## kid-surf (May 17, 2009)

Frederick --

I hear you. Just, in an epic (or plain studio film) it's a very thin grey line. By "emotional core" I don't mean "love story", I simply mean an emotionally charged reason why this story is taking place.

For example: I have a script that is somewhat violent [Indie]. Yet the way we get into this story is that a guy desperately wants to be something/someone he's not, in fact he wants to live someone else's life. He is presented with that opportunity then ends up having to pay the consequences of mistaken identity. Where as, it could have been a story about a guy who needs to find the "MacGuffin" for no other reason than for us to see violence, which is shallow. Too often we're getting away from "emotionally charged" reasons for these story to exist. And/or, the emotionality is forced and cliche...

If the emotionality happens to be a love story, cool. Whatever is organic to the story and not forced. Epic or otherwise. This is how the score will feel like it matters. Starts with the script.


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## lux (May 17, 2009)

Theo put some interesting point here. but i believe its not only a matter of depth in sceenplays that explains how musicians do approach things related to movies today.

I'm not an expert but a couple of things catched my curiosity.

1) Professionalism
As much as industry has taken a root where non matter related managers are put everywhere, mostly to cut costs and keep things safe, musicians are changing their mind in order to sync. Reading most posts here (and speaking here and there) i rarely find "artistic" considerations in approaching film scoring. And most of times this is spontaneous to the musician, more than inducted by his job situation. Its a lazy approach. And the most you go up in the food chain the laziest it becomes. Professionalism is more or less treating a music job like if you were selling apples because "i've been asked that by those pricks and i'm making them happy with the minimum effort". I often find this here as a ruling concept. Now how could we be concerned with the industry while our own mentality helps driving this situation?

2) Puppet directors
Here's where Theo and Kid make the point. There are a lot of puppet directors out there. Crappy films have always been part of the game, but the effect industry changed things a bit. Big blockbusters based on crappy format and effects are a bit overloading the market. Attached to those best sellers are often crap music efforts done in a couple weeks and glowing in cliches. When I think to old blockbusters with great music my mind goes to pretty decent (not to say a few amazing) directors. I think John Mc Tiernan, I think Steven Spielberg, Zemekis, Badham, Demme, Scott, Cameron, Raimi, . People with a cool talent. At least not puppets.

Paradoxally comedy, more than drama, could be the key to install again an "artistic" vision of film scores. Thats because it pays less cliches music wise imho


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 17, 2009)

lux @ 17/5/2009 said:


> "i've been asked that by those pricks and i'm making them happy with the minimum effort".



In my experience at least, it's never minimum effort. I may not always like what I'm delivering style-wise, but it's most often hard work.


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## lux (May 17, 2009)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun May 17 said:


> lux @ 17/5/2009 said:
> 
> 
> > "i've been asked that by those pricks and i'm making them happy with the minimum effort".
> ...



You saved the prick part it seems :mrgreen: 

Seriously, I was meaning "the minimum effort necessary". That changes the sense of the quoted sentence.
I mostly mean that the general approach is giving just what one thinks will shut up every complaints from client, without any in-depth attempt. And in general i believe is kind of a lazy, un-artistical and professionalist approach. Of course i put myself into as well so i'm insulting myself on top of anybody else. But at least this can focus away our attention from being just an "industry" related issue and someone else's fault.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 17, 2009)

You know, of course Luca, that in-depth = time. There's often not enough of that. There's often not much time for trial and error, for days of 'mistakes', the basis for getting in-depth.


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## lux (May 17, 2009)

so basically youre sayin' that all can be issued to clients and nothing to composers?


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## kid-surf (May 17, 2009)

I believe what these threads are really about, at the core, is that we (artists) recognize that there is a significant problem "out there" - one which is preventing us from doing what we do, authentically and sincerely.

When we stop to think about the issue (which largely stems from art vs commerce - and to what degree) we probably realize that it, more then ever, has to do with the "money guys", the financiers. The chicken and the egg thing in that, is it true that audiences don't want quality films? I dunno, maybe the climate demands that? Or, it could be that the money folks are too terrified to take, what looks to be ANY risk, in this climate preventing audiences from seeing what they'd otherwise LOVE. Perhaps it's both. But the worse the economy gets the sillier the films will get (which may mean the same for the scores..?)

When we boil it down to the common denominator the economy issue is likely the crux of the issue we're all battling. 

I know there are crap directors out there, crap producers, crap writers and composers etc. There always will be. But when I look at writers and directors (the first guys in) it seems to me that MANY feel they have no choice but to create crap if they wish to be paid for this. The deeper I delve into this process and the more established/higher-profile the folks are that I deal with, the more I believe this to be the issue. In other words, it's getting really hard (impossible?) to NOT be a puppet...so long as you care about paying the bills.

I feel as though I've given it my best effort to circumvent meaningless films, while each time out of the gate getting more and more commercial in order to get beyond "I love it..but it's a tough sell" to "I love it...let's make it". If you would have presented me (or just about anyone I know) my latest script just 2 years ago, they likely would have said "Great..that's a slam dunk!". Things have changed THAT much in only 2 years. So here I am all these scripts later with the realization that, NO, there's probably no getting around writing crap - hard as that is for me to swallow. ---- Then again, my version of crap is likely someone else's favorite film. In other words, the more commercial something gets, the less "voice/POV" I see, the more bland the story, the less I care.

*Although, I should say that only one producer has read my latest script (only half because I pulled it back to tweak some things) and loved it so far. So, for all I know folks will flip over it. The point is; I'm not expecting that to happen, due to the climate -- Which is a sad way to create.

The point is: This climate is forcing many of us to do marginal work in order to receive a paycheck. The less I can, in good conscience, blame the director - perhaps leaving many crap directors 'off the hook' amongst the chaos of the industry trying to calibrate. 

Having said that; I think we'd see these goofy films tapper WAY back if the climate were different. Less GOOD writers would be forced to write them in order to get paid. Less GOOD directors would seek to directed them in order to get paid. Less GOOD producers would seek to make them in order to get paid. Less GOOD agents and managers would seek out clients who write/direct them. Thus, less GOOD composers would be forced to copycat on them. It's like a disease nobody can escape at this point.

Anyway...we artists know there is something really wrong with what's going on right now. It makes perfect sense we'd speak out against it's validity, if only amongst ourselves. After all...when I'm out there in the world there's no way in hell I'm going to raise any red flags. "Of course I love this project...I think it's going to be a BIG HIT...!!!"

Do I want the title of a commercial film etched into my gravestone once I'm Six Feet Under? Probably not.

LASTLY -- TV, earlier this year I looked at it like a salvation. The place I could go a bit darker, a bit more off the wall. Seems like that opening is closing quick, too. Seems like even the risky HBO/SHOWTIME folks are picking up more comedies, less dramas. Why? Economy...give the audience more fluff to distract them.

This economy thing is the bane of my creativity right now. You? Thus, I would suggest, as a composer, to link up with a comedy filmmaker. :D


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## kid-surf (May 17, 2009)

BTW -- if you're thinking "what the hell does any of that have to do w/this thread!?": Has to do with the idea of "everything" getting more simple and dumbed down. And considering the script is the first thing to go...the score follows.

My comments are designed to look at the reasons why this is taking place, but that's probably obvious.


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## kid-surf (May 17, 2009)

lux @ Sun May 17 said:


> Ned Bouhalassa @ Sun May 17 said:
> 
> 
> > lux @ 17/5/2009 said:
> ...



You saved the prick part it seems :mrgreen: 

Seriously, I was meaning "the minimum effort necessary". That changes the sense of the quoted sentence.
I mostly mean that the general approach is giving just what one thinks will shut up eveòÿÐ   ¡/·ÿÐ   ¡/¸ÿÐ   ¡/¹ÿÐ   ¡/ºÿÐ   ¡/»ÿÐ   ¡/¼ÿÐ   ¡/½ÿÐ   ¡/¾ÿÐ   ¡/¿ÿÐ   ¡/ÀÿÐ   ¡/ÁÿÐ   ¡/ÂÿÐ   ¡/ÃÿÐ   ¡/ÄÿÐ   ¡/ÅÿÐ   ¡/ÆÿÐ   ¡/ÇÿÐ   ¡/ÈÿÐ   ¡/ÉÿÐ   ¡/ÊÿÐ   ¡/ËÿÐ   ¡/ÌÿÐ   ¡/ÍÿÐ   ¡/ÎÿÐ   ¡/ÏÿÐ   ¡/ÐÿÐ   ¡/ÑÿÐ   ¡/ÒÿÐ   ¡/ÓÿÐ   ¡/ÔÿÐ   ¡/ÕÿÐ   ¡/ÖÿÐ   ¡/×ÿÐ   ¡/ØÿÐ   ¡/ÙÿÐ   ¡/ÚÿÐ   ¡/ÛÿÐ   ¡/ÜÿÐ   ¡/ÝÿÐ   ¡/ÞÿÐ   ¡/ßÿÐ   ¡/àÿÐ   ¡/áÿÐ   ¡/âÿÐ   ¡/ãÿÐ   ¡/äÿÐ   ¡/åÿÐ   ¡/æÿÐ   ¡/çÿÐ   ¡/èÿÐ   ¡/éÿÐ   ¡/êÿÐ   ¡/ëÿÐ   ¡/ìÿÐ   ¡/íÿÐ   ¡/îÿÐ   ¡/ïÿÐ   ¡/ðÿÐ   ¡/ñÿÐ   ¡/òÿÐ   ¡/óÿÐ   ¡/ôÿÐ   ¡/õÿÐ   ¡/öÿÐ   ¡/÷ÿÐ   ¡/øÿÐ   ¡/ùÿÐ   ¡/úÿÐ   ¡/ûÿÐ   ¡/üÿÐ   ¡/ýÿÐ   ¡/þÿÐ   ¡/ÿÿÐ   ¡0 ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0	ÿÐ   ¡0
ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0 ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ   ¡0ÿÐ


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## Ned Bouhalassa (May 17, 2009)

DUDE!! You have GGTTC VIII? Upload it!!!!


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## watikutju (May 19, 2009)

I'm sure most muso's of worth in any genre could have the same conversation as this thread. But at the end of the day, the everyday punters do find simple music memorable, so why wouldn't movies targetted at that audience demand it? 

I think the following sums it up perfectly...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCud8H7z7vU


:shock: 


Cheers


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## kid-surf (May 19, 2009)

Ned -- I threw it onto BitTorrent. Enjoy!!!

Lux -- I hear you and agree. Normally I'm the guy espousing many (in my view) altruistic (and to others here, naive) views as to what this is all about. I'm simply seeking out ways to do MY thang. So I generally do not agree with those of us who feel we should "act professional" if that means convincing ourselves that protocol dictates we do not attempt to forge a unique path.

Anyway...

Agreed, I believe it's our job to educate (directly or indirectly) those who surround us, particularly when it's clear they do not decipher particular aspects of this process [creation]. Not to mention, people become spoiled. Hollywood is very spoiled this way. Imagine the world's best material delivered to you on a silver plater and your job is to say "no" to most of it. Promise, that's not nearly as hard as creating it.

So, you have my word, I promise to never succumb to this brainwashing disease entirely. :D


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