# I’ve been learning so much about orchestration by doing this



## leslieq (Dec 13, 2019)

So a few months ago, I came across Wallanders NotePerformer and after listening to some of their demos, knew it was a tool I could really benefit from. I decided to buy it and have consequently opened a door to a whole new level of learning.

I started making demos of some of my favourite orchestral scores and cues — copying each instrumental part into Sibelius from printed music, building up until I’d inputted all the instruments.

Here’s one example of a music cue from Home Alone (John Williams)




I made sure to keep all articulations, expressions and dynamics exactly as they appeared in the scores. The playback using NotePerformer has been eye-opening. Especially the ability to isolate individual instruments, groups or combinations of instruments and listen to what they sound like together — the textures and orchestral colours the combinations create. All amassing to the complete orchestral palette.

Literally, if you have the means and the time, I strongly recommend doing similar with your favourite pieces. So much to discover!


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## Paul T McGraw (Dec 13, 2019)

NotePerformer is wonderful. Thanks for sharing this. I also have done similar things with NotePerformer and learned immensely in the process.


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## premjj (Dec 13, 2019)

Do they have sales at any point of time during the year?


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## Henu (Dec 13, 2019)

I've never used Noteperformer- is it some sort of "sample player" which works with many notation softwares? And is the reason to use it the lightweightness, compared to using e.g. Cubase and Kontakt libraries?

I tried to check out their website for more information but it seems to assume everyone knows what it is, so there's no description for dummies included anywhere. And if I don't use any notation software, would Noteperformer be futile? I've been lately trying to adjust my workflow more into notation-based approach, so this sounds really interesting.


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## leslieq (Dec 13, 2019)

premjj said:


> Do they have sales at any point of time during the year?



Hey, if you mean Wallander's NotePerformer, I'm not sure... I've never noticed any sales but that‘s not to say it doesn’t happen.


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## leslieq (Dec 13, 2019)

Henu said:


> I've never used Noteperformer- is it some sort of "sample player" which works with many notation softwares? And is the reason to use it the lightweightness, compared to using e.g. Cubase and Kontakt libraries?
> 
> I tried to check out their website for more information but it seems to assume everyone knows what it is, so there's no description for dummies included anywhere. And if I don't use any notation software, would Noteperformer be futile? I've been lately trying to adjust my workflow more into notation-based approach, so this sounds really interesting.



Hey Henu, 
I'm definitely *not* an expert in this but I believe NotePerformer can be described as: 

A lightweight soundset of expanded orchestra sounds (plus other instruments) that you can use to play back your music from score notation programs. It only works with notation programs like Sibelius, Dorico and Finale. 

It has almost zero set up to get it up and running. Simply install the software, open your notation program and choose NotePerformer for your playback. It cleverly reads and interprets the notes, expressions, articulations, dynamics etc that you put in your notation – all automatically without you having to do anything extra – and produces quite a realistic playback of your music.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 13, 2019)

I'm so lost, and feel really dumb.


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## Henu (Dec 13, 2019)

Thanks @leslieq ! I recently switched into a "quick and shitty template" for my arranging/notation needs, where I have the basic orchestral setup with the most playable sounds I could mold out (no articulations, legatos etc) to concentrate on _actual orchestration and arranging_ instead of getting lost in an endless swamp of technical or timbral choices. (which will be done later when the actual arrangement is 100% ready)

I absolutely love it, but the only thing I'm missing is the notation part, as I still need to play everything in, including the dynamics, when I just would love to have stuff notated and then played back with reasonable-sounding samples. Do you think e.g. Dorico's own sounds are so much worse and unrealistic than Noteperformer's that people want to use NP instead, or do you think I could survive with Dorico (or similar) alone if I just want to hear my arrangement being played while I notate?


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## NoamL (Dec 13, 2019)

I've used Noteperformer for some pieces that were later recorded in a concert hall and found NP to be a pretty good program as long as you have an orchestral imagination and can listen "past" the residual sound-font-iness of it. It'll never be as good as mockups but it's a definite improvement over Garritan or General MIDI.

And what a vote of confidence in JW's orchestration this is, honestly. He could turn in "mockups" straight from Sibelius and get approved.


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## DavidRubenstein (Dec 13, 2019)

Leslieq, I've been doing exactly the same thing, from scores in the book "Scoring the Screen" by Andy Hill. This book contains short excerpts from lots of scores by the great film composers of the past.

The wonderful thing about NotePerformer, is that the instrument sounds are all balanced. If you carefully key in all the dynamics exactly as written in the score, it comes out sounding just right. Like you, I find that this is a great learning approach; by keying everything into your notation program, you learn about the voicings and the effects and the balance between sections. And you see how film composers have achieved particular moods and emotions.


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## bryla (Dec 13, 2019)

I've been using NotePerformer for some years now delivering demos to soloists and symphony orchestras. No complaints ever and I've not been doing any polishing at all (except for maybe raising soloist volume).


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## Uiroo (Dec 13, 2019)

I am doing something similar as a daily routine, I take a few bars (Hedwigs Theme in my case) and do a mockup in my DAW, not with note performer.

It doesn't just help getting into the composition, but also learning the limitations of the VI's you own, and how you need to treat them to match the tone.

Here's a 4 bar for example, first Mockup, then the real version:








Transcription_Hedwigs Theme_Bar 35ff.wav


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com




It's really interesting how some parts sound decent with VI, while others just don't no matter how hard you try.


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## bvaughn0402 (Dec 13, 2019)

I thought this was Artificial Intelligence?

If so, why do they make it sound like NO AI when talking about their demos?

Our demos represent playback of scores in their original form.

When other orchestral libraries feature classical music demos, they were made in a DAW.

Those demos were *carefully sequenced by hand by a very skilled individual, manually adding musical phrasing to each instrument, and bear no resemblance to how that library would perform the same music directly from score in a notation software.*

Our demos are an honest representation of how NotePerformer can be expected to sound. Even for a composer with no sample library experience.


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## Paul T McGraw (Dec 13, 2019)

@Uiroo that was really interesting. Really shows how close NotePerformer can get to the sound of expensive samples.


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## leslieq (Dec 13, 2019)

Henu said:


> Thanks @leslieq ! I recently switched into a "quick and shitty template" for my arranging/notation needs, where I have the basic orchestral setup with the most playable sounds I could mold out (no articulations, legatos etc) to concentrate on _actual orchestration and arranging_ instead of getting lost in an endless swamp of technical or timbral choices. (which will be done later when the actual arrangement is 100% ready)
> 
> I absolutely love it, but the only thing I'm missing is the notation part, as I still need to play everything in, including the dynamics, when I just would love to have stuff notated and then played back with reasonable-sounding samples. Do you think e.g. Dorico's own sounds are so much worse and unrealistic than Noteperformer's that people want to use NP instead, or do you think I could survive with Dorico (or similar) alone if I just want to hear my arrangement being played while I notate?



Glad to hear your workflow is kinda working for what you need initially. I don't have any experience with Dorico as I've always been a Sibelius user. 

For sure, in Sibelius (and I'm sure in Dorico too) the default sounds are adequate – you'll get an accurate sense of rhythm, counterpoint and harmony etc; but not colour, dynamics, expression or timbre/texture. Not as good when compared with NotePerformer's sound in my opinion. But definitely workable.


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## leslieq (Dec 13, 2019)

Uiroo said:


> I am doing something similar as a daily routine, I take a few bars (Hedwigs Theme in my case) and do a mockup in my DAW, not with note performer.
> 
> It doesn't just help getting into the composition, but also learning the limitations of the VI's you own, and how you need to treat them to match the tone.
> 
> ...



That Hedwigs Theme mock up is sounding really good! I have/tried Logic Pro X but I literally couldn't get my head around DAW – all that key-switching and patches etc lol – so have huge admiration for anyone that can tame those powerful programs. Out of curiosity, I think I'll do a little bit of the same section of Hedwig's Theme in Sibelius/NP to see how it stacks up with your excellent DAW version.


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## Markus Kohlprath (Dec 13, 2019)

Henu said:


> Thanks @leslieq ! I recently switched into a "quick and shitty template" for my arranging/notation needs, where I have the basic orchestral setup with the most playable sounds I could mold out (no articulations, legatos etc) to concentrate on _actual orchestration and arranging_ instead of getting lost in an endless swamp of technical or timbral choices. (which will be done later when the actual arrangement is 100% ready)
> 
> I absolutely love it, but the only thing I'm missing is the notation part, as I still need to play everything in, including the dynamics, when I just would love to have stuff notated and then played back with reasonable-sounding samples. Do you think e.g. Dorico's own sounds are so much worse and unrealistic than Noteperformer's that people want to use NP instead, or do you think I could survive with Dorico (or similar) alone if I just want to hear my arrangement being played while I notate?


As far as I know about it and as my experience with it tells me Note performers instruments are completely modeled. No samples. But it is extremely sophisticated and somehow manages to replicate a true performance and especially the balancing and interaction of the instruments very accurate. Much better than the native sounds of e.g. sibelius or dorico. So you can get a pretty accurate sense of what your arrangement will sound in real life. And it does it without any midi editing. It just interprets the dynamics and the writing style a bit like artificial intelligence if you will. Arne Wallander sometimes chimes in here on the forum and can tell a lot more about it.


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## leslieq (Dec 13, 2019)

leslieq said:


> That Hedwigs Theme mock up is sounding really good! I have/tried Logic Pro X but I literally couldn't get my head around DAW – all that key-switching and patches etc lol – so have huge admiration for anyone that can tame those powerful programs. Out of curiosity, I think I'll do a little bit of the same section of Hedwig's Theme in Sibelius/NP to see how it stacks up with your excellent DAW version.




@Uiroo Attaching a Sibelius+NotePerformer version of the same extract (with a little lead-in) from Hedwig's Theme


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## Eduardo Lopez (Dec 13, 2019)

premjj said:


> Do they have sales at any point of time during the year?


I remember emailing them a few years ago about this and they responded that "discount sales" is not part of their business model at the moment (maybe that has changed now, idw). But the monthly payment option to buy is really affordable, bought my copy a few years ago and it´s been fantastic, love Noteperformer!


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## JJHLH (Dec 13, 2019)

The more I see and hear of Noteperformer the more I want to buy it. It looks like an amazing tool that will help facilitate learning.


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## giwro (Dec 13, 2019)

I’m a huge Noteperformer fan - it does really give an accurate idea of balance, and the sounds are realistic enough that it doesn’t bother me... I’ve done some of the same thing: http://www.evensongmusic.net/?page_id=2933
A short excerpt from a romantic symphony and an organ piece I arranged for sax quartet. If I later go to higher-quality samples, I use the Noteperformer balances to inform how I mix.

The only challenge of using Noteperformer is that if you are strictly a “play it into a DAW” with no knowledge of notation, it will be like starting over. I always start with writing a score, so I love it.


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## gohrev (Dec 16, 2019)

Another NotePerformer fan here. Truly a remarkable piece of software and a real must-have for any Sibelius composer. For those of us (still) composing in Sibelius, it's a great tool to quickly make a very realistic sounding mock-up. Add a bit of EQ and reverb to taste, and your "pre-mock-up" is good to go. 

You can then tell your client: "Now imagine how this would sound after I spent hours with state-of-the-art samples." Or a real orchestra!


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## Maxtrixbass (Dec 27, 2019)

JJHLH said:


> The more I see and hear of Noteperformer the more I want to buy it. It looks like an amazing tool that will help facilitate learning.



I'm somewhat old school in that I started way back with pencil and paper and moving to Finale in 1993. That required a great deal of imagination to get balances and orchestration right. Even checking the notes with only paper is a challenge, although history has shown it to be a very workable method.

Simple early playback in notation software gave a great tool to check the notes. Having recently purchased Noteperformer (for Sibelius) I would say it adds a better tool to check orchestration. The balance it renders is much closer to what would happen with a live group and although I wouldn't consider the sounds quite up to a finished product, is well worth the asking price for this aspect alone.


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