# Strings moving. How do you do it?



## Asterixobelix (Jan 4, 2020)

Hi.
I wasn't sure where to post questions, but as I am newbie in this forum I will post it here.

I was always fascinated by that spiccato things moving on in the tracks, that I forgot to learn basic things about harmonizing basic melody and triads on strings.
I made an video as example of what I am saying...



First is the melody and triads without I did anything, and chord clearly stops at end making pause, and it sound very bad for ears, there is no that string flow.
Than second time I play it, it is where I tried making some notes longer, where they met same notes in next chord, and I did created some hills to create that up down dynamics, but its not as what I expect it to be.
Still I do not like how this sound, its not elegant, and still not smooth on the moves.

1. What am I missing here?

2. If I add more instruments that follow same melody and chords, I have to apply same dynamics (those hills)? - I usually do it, to avoid clashes and muddy things, so my trumpets or horns would have probably same or similar dynamics as strings.
If I do apply same dynamics to brass it still sound harsh, its not flowing, nor it sounds elegant.

3. I usually masked my bad strings and other sustained+legato instruments flow by spiccato or percussion, and its time to stop maskign and learn to do this the right way, and I can't do this alone, nor read this in any book, so I would like if someone has time to explain me why it sounds as it sound, I want this flow...


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## Zedcars (Jan 4, 2020)

My advice would be to put each string voice on its own track so that you can assign violin 1, 2, viola, cello, double bass patches to each one and have independent control over the dynamics. I apologise if you’ve already done that, but it sounds like they are all being played on one track as a pad. You haven’t said which string library you are using, but most decent ones will have legato patches designed to play one line monophonically which is what you want for these particular string parts. This will allow the note transitions to sound more realistic. Legato patches in string libraries try to simulate how a stringed instrument sounds when transitioning between two notes. It can be subtle but if it’s not there you notice it as a disconnect and the sound immediately screams SAMPLE. Sometimes there are controls for portamento which is the way a string player will sometimes glide up or down in pitch to the new note. I don’t think you want any of that here so make sure it is not triggered (some libraries have specific patches for this, others use velocity to trigger it, and others handle it differently still).

I would also play/record each line in again and do minimal editing to the note positions afterwards (no hard quantising). What you want is slight variation between each string part/line. Variation in note timing, dynamics, vibrato etc. This will help add interest, emotion and realism.

Look at the library manual to see if you have extra control over vibrato. Some libraries allow this, whereas others just tie it to the dynamics. You can also use CC11 Expression for more subtle (or extreme) volume variation and control. Pay particular attention to the start and end or the string musical phrases. They tend to taper off a bit in dynamics at the end of quiet phrases for example (unless of course it’s a climax, in which case a crescendo would be necessary).

Many people have great success layering solo, chamber or divisi violins, violas and or celli over the top of the larger string sections so that there is more intimacy and it helps add emotion and realism.

Finally, a good string sound has a multitude of factors that make it pleasant to listen to. Programming is one, which I’ve covered a bit. Also, I’m sure you know just how many sampled string libraries are on the market; almost too many to keep track of. Some are better than others so think about whether the library you have is capable of achieving the sound you want. Also try different patches within the library as some are better than others. Part-writing, arranging, mixing, and mastering are also key factors in having a nice sound.

Again, I apologise if anything I’ve said is too basic and you already know all or some of the above. I don’t know what specific level you are at so just aimed it at a beginner level.

I hope that helps.


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## Asterixobelix (Jan 5, 2020)

Zedcars said:


> My advice would be to put each string voice on its own track so that you can assign violin 1, 2, viola, cello, double bass patches to each one and have independent control over the dynamics. I apologise if you’ve already done that, but it sounds like they are all being played on one track as a pad. You haven’t said which string library you are using, but most decent ones will have legato patches designed to play one line monophonically which is what you want for these particular string parts. This will allow the note transitions to sound more realistic. Legato patches in string libraries try to simulate how a stringed instrument sounds when transitioning between two notes. It can be subtle but if it’s not there you notice it as a disconnect and the sound immediately screams SAMPLE. Sometimes there are controls for portamento which is the way a string player will sometimes glide up or down in pitch to the new note. I don’t think you want any of that here so make sure it is not triggered (some libraries have specific patches for this, others use velocity to trigger it, and others handle it differently still).
> 
> I would also play/record each line in again and do minimal editing to the note positions afterwards (no hard quantising). What you want is slight variation between each string part/line. Variation in note timing, dynamics, vibrato etc. This will help add interest, emotion and realism.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your answer.
I see at the beggining you ask for a library, I am using Metropolis Ark 1, and this is High Strings patch.
So, I can't use split instruments, and to load legato for each voice would take a lot of ram too.

I will check other things that you mentioned for MA1, I am sure I tried changing some settings, but I did not found any option to make transitions more "mellow" and not so "harsh and obvious".

But, hey, I am new and I don't know stuff much, so I don't know MA1 yet well.


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## Kobiy86 (Jan 5, 2020)

Hello Asterixobelix, 
recently I stumpled into the same problem - I also consider myself as a newbie, so take everytI say with a grain of salt  If you haven’t already watched it, check out the tutorial by alex moukala. It helped me a lot:


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## Ben (Jan 5, 2020)

Add solo string instruments as first chair (don't use the same automation curve as for the section). If possible use vibrato control to shape the sound, then mix it with the sections. 
Also layering additional string libraries with different articulations and automation may help. I like to use the VSL Dimension Strings for this, because it gives high flexibility and control, and it already has a first chair player.


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## BassClef (Jan 5, 2020)

In most strong libraries, the transition from one note to the next will sound MUCH smoother when each note slightly overlap the next one. Look at the notes in your piano roll. Zoom in if necessary and edit the end of notes so that they extend slightly past where the next one begins. This usually improve the transitions whether using a sustain or a legato articulation.


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## Zedcars (Jan 5, 2020)

Asterixobelix said:


> Thank you for your answer.
> I see at the beggining you ask for a library, I am using Metropolis Ark 1, and this is High Strings patch.
> So, I can't use split instruments, and to load legato for each voice would take a lot of ram too.
> 
> ...



You may want to invest in a string library that will allow you control over the individual string sections. Until then, there are actually some great free libraries out there that you could try:


Palette Primary Colors that offers a good basic orchestra (the demos sound pretty amazing btw):









Palette - Primary Colors - Red Room Audio


A FREE taste of Palette! This small sampling of our larger Palette Orchestral Series features strings, woodwinds and brass ensembles recorded using our True Ensemble Recording technique, with one microphone position and an abbreviated set of articulations. Now updated to v1.2!



redroomaudio.com






Sonuscore orchestral chords library:






Free Orchestra Chords - Sonuscore







sonuscore.com






Spitfire have some great string packs in their labs collection (more ensemble strings rather than individual string section instruments though, but there is an 'Amplified Cello' Labs pack):
https://www.spitfireaudio.com/labs/

Here is a free solo cello library by Blakus, aka Blake Robinson:









pocketBlakus Cello - Free Cello Kontakt Library


The "pocketBlakus Cello" is a stunning free solo cello library for Kontakt created by Australian composer Blake Robinson.




vstbuzz.com






Project Sam offer some free orchestral patches including sordino strings (= muted strings):






The Free Orchestra - ProjectSAM







projectsam.com






I'm sure there are others around, but that's just a starter for you.


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## MartinH. (Jan 5, 2020)

Asterixobelix said:


> So, I can't use split instruments, and to load legato for each voice would take a lot of ram too.



If you load several instances of the same patch in the same Kontakt instance, I think it shares the loaded samples so that the memory increase isn't as high.
I recommend the single articulation patches for this.


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## muk (Jan 5, 2020)

@Zedcars is giving very sound advice in my opinion. Do *not* buy new libraries or effects. If you can not make Metropolis Ark sound good, you do not need more tools, but to learn to use them effectively. In your situation, telling you to buy new libraries is terrible advice in my opinion. Nor will any mixing or layering tricks help you. First your mockup needs to be good.

Learn to use the modwheel (=cc1 data) to mimick a realistic performance as closely as possible. You are clearly on the right track with this. You know how you want your strings to sound, and you hear that you are not there yet. That's important. But it needs practice. So create a lot of mockups. Use real recordings as reference, and try to make your sample library sound as close to it as you can (exactly as you did with the videos you poste in your first post). I'm sure your mockups will improve very quickly if you do.

Here are two videos that might give you an idea how a pro is using the modwheel:





Search for more videos where you can see how cc1 was used to create a mockup. That can be hugely helpful if you are stuck and don't know what you need to change in your mockups.

Most of all, enjoy the journey and keep making music.


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## Tatu (Jan 5, 2020)

You have pretty much all the necessary (harmonic) building blocks there. You just aren't using them to their full potential.

Here's your small piece divided and arranged to a string orchestra:


Notice what we have here instead of just those blocks of chords below the melody. Those are the thing you need to focus most: Turn them into something other than just that; a block of chords. You don't even have to do much, just ad some movement in there.

But do pay attention to a couple of things: 
1. Ad counter movement against your melody - compare what the Violas and Cellos are doing against the Violins.
2. don't be afraid to use "an odd" note in between there as well every now and then: see what the Violas and 2nd Violins are doing in bar 9.
3. When someone tells you, that you can't use parallel fifths etc - simply ignore them (there's at least one in my example as well  , so I kind of had to mention that "rule").

I don't have Ark 1, but I did notice that it has a legato patch. Use that on multiple tracks and divide your chords to those, and do not forget to use the one for lower strings as well.

This example uses pretty much similar CC-data to yours (and that's the only CC I used here), though I did make some very small tweaks here and there to different instruments. For example, I boosted the counter melody on Violas at the beginning of bar 9 a bit to get them through better - use your ears!

And use your ears again! Listen to your melody and harmony. Listen and repeat. Let it take over. 
Try to imagine something contrasting your melody within the basic harmony and you'll get there.

Libraries: 
Spitfire Mural (full, these days it's called Symphonic Strings or some such)
Good old Cinematic Strings 2.

-Tatu


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## Asterixobelix (Jan 8, 2020)

Tatu said:


> You have pretty much all the necessary (harmonic) building blocks there. You just aren't using them to their full potential.
> 
> Here's your small piece divided and arranged to a string orchestra:
> 
> ...



OmG, man, I love you!
Edit: I was struggling right now for hour, just to realize I should omit 3rds and leave 5ths.


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## Geomir (Jan 8, 2020)

Ben said:


> Add solo string instruments as first chair (don't use the same automation curve as for the section). If possible use vibrato control to shape the sound, then mix it with the sections.
> Also layering additional string libraries with different articulations and automation may help. I like to use the VSL Dimension Strings for this, because it gives high flexibility and control, and it already has a first chair player.


Ben, I would like to ask you about VSL Synchronized Special Edition: 
In my DAW, in order to achieve legato sound, do I need to overlap the notes, or just I need to connect them without any gap in-between?


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## Ben (Jan 9, 2020)

Geomir said:


> do I need to overlap the notes, or just I need to connect them without any gap in-between


Try both, also try it with a little gap. The legato will sound differently and it depends on the situation which legato you are looking for. 
The smoothest / most connected legato can be achieved when overlapping the notes. 
Also there is a parameter called legato blur that you can control with a cc to further influence how the legato sounds.


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## Geomir (Jan 9, 2020)

Ben said:


> Try both, also try it with a little gap. The legato will sound differently and it depends on the situation which legato you are looking for.
> The smoothest / most connected legato can be achieved when overlapping the notes.
> Also there is a parameter called legato blur that you can control with a cc to further influence how the legato sounds.


Thank you for your reply! I have already tried legato blur, it's a really nice feature that I use some times! OK so I will try to overlap the notes for connected/smooth legato! I thought I had read (in a VSL forum thread) that VSL products "recognize" when you connect the notes and they play legato without the need to overlap the notes! But most probably I remember something wrong!


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## Ben (Jan 9, 2020)

Geomir said:


> Thank you for your reply! I have already tried legato blur, it's a really nice feature that I use some times! OK so I will try to overlap the notes for connected/smooth legato! I thought I had read (in a VSL forum thread) that VSL products "recognize" when you connect the notes and they play legato without the need to overlap the notes! But most probably I remember something wrong!


That's true, but the sample player plays the legato differently depending on how much the notes are overlap. So a tiny gap between these notes can also result in a legato, but with other characteristics.
I did not try this one yet with the Dimension Strings, but I know it works with the Solo Strings: If you want to have a legato on the same note (re-bow), use the sustain pedal / sustain CC and the player will play a re-bow. I don't have the time to test this at the moment, so would be nice if you could try this out on your own


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## Geomir (Jan 9, 2020)

Ben said:


> That's true, but the sample player plays the legato differently depending on how much the notes are overlap. So a tiny gap between these notes can also result in a legato, but with other characteristics.
> I did not try this one yet with the Dimension Strings, but I know it works with the Solo Strings: If you want to have a legato on the same note (re-bow), use the sustain pedal / sustain CC and the player will play a re-bow. I don't have the time to test this at the moment, so would be nice if you could try this out on your own


Thanks for the tip, I don't own the Dimension Strings, but the Synchronized Special Edition (1+2) have been my best purchase ever!  

So the Synchron Player plays a true legato transition if the notes are perfectly connected (no gaps at all and no overlapping), and a slightly different legato transition (more connected) when the notes overlap?


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## Ben (Jan 9, 2020)

Geomir said:


> So the Synchron Player plays a true legato transition if the notes are perfectly connected (no gaps at all and no overlapping), and a slightly different legato transition (more connected) when the notes overlap?


I don't know the exact details of what happens with the signals, best way is to try it out and listen to it. Both, VI and Synchron Player have legato handling, but the legato handling of the Synchron Player is far more advanced compared to the Vienna Instruments Player.


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