# ?!? Books? Teachers??



## lydianchromaticconcept (Jul 11, 2009)

I've just now discovered the EIS thing. I'm VERY interested in learning about this. I haven't been able to find a place to buy the first book. Any help??


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## Leandro Gardini (Jul 12, 2009)

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3251


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## lydianchromaticconcept (Jul 12, 2009)

i appreciate the reply. but it say nowhere on that page WHERE or HOW i can get the books.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 12, 2009)

The books are sold to students of the course. One cannot buy the books unless one studies with a teacher. A teacher must be a graduate of the course. A list of potential teachers can be found here.

http://equalinterval.com/

There may be some new graduates recently and they need to be added to the teaching list. Once you decide on a teacher, he/she will help you make contact with the book seller. 

Hope this helps


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## rJames (Jul 12, 2009)

IMHO...at least the first book should be sold to anyone who wants it. (If I had a vote)

I mean book 1 & 2 combined.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 12, 2009)

It might be a good idea but Spud only wanted graduates teaching the course so I do not think there will be anyway of getting around that roadblock at this time. You would have to get the approval of graduates and Lilith. Also there have been cases where a student received the book, went ahead on his own, proudly handed in the assignments and was informed he missed so much of the material he had to go back to the beginning and start again.


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## jsaras (Jul 12, 2009)

I'll tell you one thing for certain; EIS is much deeper than Geroge Russell's Lydian Chromatic Concept. No insult to your handle intended.

One thing that I wish was included in the EIS brochure is a short summary of "change of position contrary to the bass (basically the material in pages 25-25A) and an explanation of how this theory is used to voice-lead all three and four-note structures. A potential student could then get a glimpse into the basic mechanism that undergirds the system and there would be a lot less confusion/mystery about the course. 

Perhaps Lyle felt that allowing someone to peek under the hood would be "giving away the farm" or that "a little bit of knowledge" would be a dangerous thing. Regardless, I understand and deeply respect that this theory is Lyle's brain-child. 

The basic theory behind EIS is truly the "Occam's Razor" of music. The Occam's Razor principle is defined as "of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable, provided that it takes all circumstances into account."


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## lydianchromaticconcept (Jul 12, 2009)

jsaras @ Sun Jul 12 said:


> I'll tell you one thing for certain; EIS is much deeper than Geroge Russell's Lydian Chromatic Concept. No insult to your handle intended."



oh yeah, no insult taken. i do really like the LCC, but it didn't DO for me what i thought it would. i do use a few ideas from the book, but in general it's just different names for the same "stuff." i'm hoping the EIS will be more of what i'm looking for.


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## lydianchromaticconcept (Jul 12, 2009)

thanks guys. i spoke with david blumberg today. great guy, and it looks as though i'll be starting the course very soon. as soon as i can get the $$ together. (it IS expensive, but it seems like it's worth it).


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## rJames (Jul 13, 2009)

jsaras @ Sun Jul 12 said:


> The basic theory behind EIS is truly the "Occam's Razor" of music. The Occam's Razor principle is defined as "of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable, provided that it takes all circumstances into account."



Well put. I like that explanation.


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## careyford (Jul 24, 2009)

Definitely worth the money.

Richard


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## vintagevibe (Nov 4, 2009)

This system looks quite interesting but I can't get past the cult-like aspect of it.


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 4, 2009)

vintagevibe @ Wed Nov 04 said:


> This system looks quite interesting but I can't get past the cult-like aspect of it.



Its just a unique approach - not mind-control. If anything, its musically freeing. In actuality, nothing can make you a better composer - that's up to you - and helpful tools to help get there can be found in EIS and in other odd cult-like resources such as Jack Smalley's Composing for Film along with more mainstream diatonic compositional and orchestration books.


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## midphase (Nov 4, 2009)

I think he's referring to the somewhat secretive way in which the material is propagated, to which I kinda agree. The idea that you can't figure out what EIS is about with private tutoring is faintly reminiscent of Scientology. I agree with Craig on his assessment that without private tutoring the books are pretty useless, but that's part of the problem -- there are no books that can teach you the basics of this method!!!

While Spud's philosophy helped preserve a high degree of accuracy in the way the material was transmitted from teacher to student, it was also (IMHO) short-sighted. IMHO, this is the very reason why EIS is doomed to extinction unless someone decides to write a comprehensive book about the compositional method which could at least impart the basics to a perspective student.

Don't get me wrong, EIS rocks. Some of the best music I have ever written is due to what I have learned in the course, and while I'm on a hiatus on my learning, I know that what I have learned so far is enough to last me a lifetime if I wanted.


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 4, 2009)

I'm forced to agree actually. I wish it was more mainstream in the delivery.


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## jsaras (Nov 5, 2009)

It's a complex subject for me. On one hand, I am studying this course and I aspire to teach this material in the future to recoup my investment. 

The thoroughness of the course is a blessing and a curse. Bach, Brahms, Beethoven, Ellington and Monk never transcribed their compositional process into a written method. As a result, theorists observed certain phenomena after the fact and made their best guess as to what rules/principles could be derived from their finished compositions. 

Conversely, Spud "transcribed" his musical mind as thoroughly as he could, which is fantastic because we don't have to guess as to what his thought processes were. However, everyone's mind is wired differently ....and Spud's mind was certainly wired differently than mine! 

It is tempting to think that having an easier to read method, or perhaps a companion volume (The EIS Reader's Guide?) would be helpful to continue the propagation of this material in the future. Just as there are numerous books on harmony, counterpoint, orchestration, etc. there may be other versions of this in the future which illuminate the same material using different language. 

That said, the flip-side is, how helpful is any book on it's own? The proliferation of jazz theory books has not produced better jazz players. If anything, it's gotten worse. I know that for me personally, I learned more by hanging with Barry Harris for 8 hours than I did in four years of college. The mentor relationship that comes from a good teacher is invaluable.

As far as the "cult-like" aspect of the course, I feel that that can be attributed at least partially to the existing web site. For many, it generates more questions than answers. All the information on the site is quite correct, but it doesn't answer the question "What the heck IS EIS?" 

I'd love the EIS site to be upgraded to include its own forum, blogs by teachers and students, and a place for MP3s and scores to be uploaded, i.e., all the things that make the website an active one and give you reason to visit it again and again. I currently have an automatic weekly Google news alert for the terms "EIS" and "Equal Interval System". None of the results that come to me have anything to do with music. Typically, it's about physics! Internet marketing and search engine optimization are subjects that cannot be ignored.

Peace,
J


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## Craig Sharmat (Nov 5, 2009)

the problem with the course from a book standpoint was that it was never intended to be a book. these were all individual lessons placed in a book so of course the flow is not like a text. EIS would need to rewritten from the ground up to accomplish this. I have no idea who would be dedicated enough to do this especially with no sure reward for the effort. This is one of the reasons why things come across cryptically and may seem like a cult. The biggest reason though is simply dealing with intervals and calling them E1 E2 etc. this immediately alienates all who are not aware of Spud's language giving the course a cult feel though it is just simply another way of calling A Spud A Spud.


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## midphase (Nov 5, 2009)

"I have no idea who would be dedicated enough to do this..."

I can think of one person


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## rJames (Nov 5, 2009)

vintagevibe @ Wed Nov 04 said:


> This system looks quite interesting but I can't get past the cult-like aspect of it.



Its not a cult.

I suppose it might look that way sometimes because we all lay down a rug, point it towards Spuds house and pray 5 times a day.

But other than that, why would you insult our homogenous community like that?


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## jsaras (Nov 6, 2009)

Is today yellow or orange toga day?


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## Craig Sharmat (Nov 6, 2009)

jsaras @ Fri Nov 06 said:


> Is today yellow or orange toga day?



no one sent you the secret password?


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## jsaras (Nov 6, 2009)

I'll settle for the secret decoder wheel. Doh!


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## tfishbein82 (Nov 11, 2009)

I agree with what others have stated in this thread. If the first book or two were available, I'd buy them. I'd like to get more of a window into the concept and process of EIS before engaging in the private tutoring.

It's not about trying to self-teach with the books, it's about understanding if I'd enjoy the whole process.


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## adg21 (Dec 16, 2010)

EIS sounds interesting, but I too can't get over how much it sounds like a cult.



midphase @ Thu Nov 05 said:


> I think he's referring to the somewhat secretive way in which the material is propagated, to which I kinda agree. The idea that you can't figure out what EIS is about with private tutoring is faintly reminiscent of Scientology. I agree with Craig on his assessment that without private tutoring the books are pretty useless, but that's part of the problem -- there are no books that can teach you the basics of this method!!!



I agreed with you up until the last sentence, of course a well-written book could teach you the basics, it sounds like dictating to us what we can and can't understand. Why not sell the first books (I and II) and give people a chance to make up their own mind, at least as to whether they might enjoy the process - provided it's well written, perhaps people might be able to understand it, and might be more interested in the course. If it's badly written then I might not be interested in the course either way. Until that happens, i wont touch it with a barge pole (and i think I'm not alone) - which is a shame, as it might be very good. If it's to sell it as complete package, then that's fine, but I'd have to know exactly what it is, and selling a book is a pretty good place to start - that website and few testamonials alone can't sell it to me.



[email protected] Thu Nov 05 said:


> It's a complex subject for me. On one hand, I am studying this course and I aspire to teach this material in the future to recoup my investment.



This feels wrong somehow, you're doing to recoup investment, or to learn something?


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## adg21 (Dec 16, 2010)

Craig Sharmat @ Thu Nov 05 said:


> the problem with the course from a book standpoint was that it was never intended to be a book. these were all individual lessons placed in a book so of course the flow is not like a text. EIS would need to rewritten from the ground up to accomplish this.



but EIS has been around for ages!...why hasn't someone written it down yet? especially if so many people are passionate about it.


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## adg21 (Dec 16, 2010)

System of horizontal composition based on equal intervals - Lyle Murphy 
was listed on a reading list here http://decamusic.com/images/VI_book_recommendations.htm

I can't find it anywhere however
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1882597001?tag=openlibr-20 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188259 ... penlibr-20)

I guess that's the end of my research - about 3 hours trying to find enough material to get me interested and I couldn';t find enough.


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## rJames (Dec 16, 2010)

Adg,
One problem is that the "books," are really workbooks. There is some basic introductory remarks but ther is no statement of theory per se.

each lesson begins with insights but I do believe that it might be hard to see the big picture in the first two books. I still think they should be available to the general public. There are insights in them that could help many arrangers and composers but it consists, mainly, of a very,very simplistic review of triads (thru all extensions) and simple writing methods. It's kind of a new look at a different kind of grammar for music. So, it may seem to be simplistic at the beginning.

I believe that Spud wanted to make a complete break from keys and diatonic thought even though he states a few times that it still is the only way to communicate with peers and players... So he always maintains the connection.


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## adg21 (Dec 16, 2010)

Ok well I'll wait for a statement of theory. Until then, it's voodoo to me


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## adg21 (Dec 17, 2010)

As I said all along I think it sounds interesting, I just need more than the website and the endorsements. I'd love to talk to an EIS teacher, or if you have any reading material you could sell me, including the System of horizontal composition based on equal intervals which was publicly available a few years ago please PM me.


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## jsaras (Dec 17, 2010)

I'll try to shed some light on this, even though I probably won't be successful 

Spud's definition of the course is "A 12 volume music composition course of horizontal line writing based on equal intervals". 

At its core, the term “Equal Interval” refers to the motion of root tones. In traditional “tonal harmony” the root tones of chord progressions generally come from the tones of a major or minor scale. By definition, major and minor scales are different combinations of half-steps and whole-steps. The interval formula for a major scale is whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half. So the intervalic terrain for root tones within tonal harmony is “unequal” by design.

At the very outset of EIS, one begins by learning to voice lead three note chord structures using “equal interval” root motions. There are six possible equal interval root motions. Using “C” as our starting point, they are:

1.	Half-Steps, e.g., C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, C.
2.	Whole-Steps, e.g, C, D, E, F#, Ab, Bb, C.
3.	Minor Thirds, e.g., C, Eb, Gb, A, C.
4.	Major Thirds, e.g., C, E, G#, C.
5.	Fourths, e.g., C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, B, E, A, D, G, C.
6.	Augmented Fourths, e.g., C, F#, C

EIS uses its own terminology for interval spacing. Within the EIS system, interval spacing begins with a “zero”, just as a ruler begins with a “zero”. So a unison is called “E0”, a half-step is called “E1”, a whole step is “E2”, a minor 3rd is “E3” and so on up to E6. 

There really isn't a root movement larger than an E6 (augmented fourth) in this system, because a fifth is really just an inverted fourth interval. At the beginning of the course you learn to voice-lead chord structures through all the “equal interval” root movements using ascending and descending motion, so you automatically learn to voice lead chord structures using every possible root motion, including those that are found in the “unequal” tonal systems. Complete freedom! 

Here's a link to a portion of a homework assignment from page 30 of the course that I did about 3 years ago: 

PDF
http://www.audiorecordingandservices.co ... tRoots.pdf

MP3
http://www.audiorecordingandservices.co ... tRoots.mp3

The first seven bars are from the "original" homework. They're all simple minor triads and the roots are ascending E2 (whole steps), a progression that doesn't exist in traditional/tonal systems of harmony. The treble triads are voice-lead according to the basic EIS theory called "Change of Position, Contrary to the Bass". There are passing tones inserted to make it smoother, more interesting and wonderfully symmetrical. I'll leave it to you to dissect what is going on from a vertical and horizontal basis. Note that all of this was conceived horizontally, one line at a time. So if you start your analysis from that basis, you'll have a chance of figuring out what is going on.

I then took that basic seven-bar progression and dressed it up three different ways (simple techniques from later on in the course). The resulting complexity and beauty is quite astonishing, especially considering the simple techniques that are used to compose it. There are at least seven MORE root structures that I could have used, and they could have been mixed randomly. This stuff spins out into "infinity" pretty quickly. 

This is just a minuscule glimpse into the very beginning of the course. Hopefully you're intrigued enough to contact a teacher, order the Book 1/Book 2 combo and get started on your journey.

Peace,
Jonas


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## sbkp (Dec 17, 2010)

In a vertical structure, such as

5
3
1

If the bass moves down, the treble voices go up that ladder. So imagine starting on C in the bass with a C triad on top:

G
E
C

If the bass moves down to Ab, then "1 becomes 3, 3 becomes 5, 5 becomes 1" (up that vertical structure).

For example

G (5 becomes 1) Ab
E (3 becomes 5) Eb
C (1 becomes 3) C

Bingo. Good voice leading. If Ab were then to go up to Db, then voice leading goes down the ladder:

Ab (1 becomes 5) Ab
Eb (5 becomes 3) F
C (3 becomes 1) Db



Here's what "change of position" means. In EIS the position of the chord is a different way of expressing an inversion. Instead of root position, first inversion, second inversion, you name it by what voice is on top (I think... it's been a while). So a standard triad is the "position of the 5th". First inversion is "position of the root". Second inversion is "position of the 3rd". So one way to look at the voice leading is that in moving from one chord to the next, we change position in order to achieve smooth voice leading.

It works for other structures, too (3 5 7, 5 7 9 11, etc). In some kinds of vertical structures you get better voice leading by doing "double 2 voice voice leading" (that's probably not the name... my books are elsewhere). For example:

13 <-> 9
10 <-> 7
9 <-> 13
7 <-> 10

This stuff, all from books 1 and 2 is all basic building blocks - the mechanics of how things move when things get really wild later on. But it does straighten things out and explain things like voice leading in a way that makes a lot of sense to me (and a lot of other people). Up or down, regardless of key or interval, there's really just the one approach.


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## sbkp (Dec 17, 2010)

By the way, Jonas, cool polytonal stuff in that example!

I think that's not a DCA in the first bar. I think that's a CA and a DPT.

---

Terminology for the uninitiated:

CA: chromatic alteration
DCA: double chromatic alteration
DPT: diatonic passing tone


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## jsaras (Dec 18, 2010)

At this point, I think that anyone who may be interested in the course has had enough of a "peek under the hood" to determine if they want to start the course with a qualified teacher.

'Nuff said!


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