# Piano Libraries, we have loves, favourites, unloved, but which one is your go to piano library?



## Andy Davidson (Sep 4, 2020)

EDIT: I've added below this original post, a list of all the pianos mentioned in this thread, many thanks for all the comments and feedback, it's fascinating and very much appreciated!

ORIGINAL: It's fascinating listening to and reading about different piano libraries here, I love how some folk love a particular library whereas others don't warm to them at all. One persons dream piano library is someone else's worst nightmare!

All all the piano libraries out there, is there one we could all agree on being good? In other words, we all have our loves, favourites and dislikes, but is there one piano that although might not be your favourite, is still a great, almost all rounder? Rather than a polarising piano, it's one that's universally liked?

Almost your go to piano, rather than favourite?

As an example I've bought a few libraries recently, some of which are loved by many, but I've maybe not warmed to them so much, they're pristine say, they're good, but you're not drawn back to them, maybe they lack charater.

So out of all the ones I've bought lately, I've found I go back to Galaxy Vintage D more than anything else. It just works! Sounds great, low footprint, variety of sound, covers a lot of ground, it's become my go to piano.

But put on the spot, the Embertone 1955 Walker D is my (current) favourite one, I love the tone and the character, but that might not be suited to as many music styles, so my go to 'safe bet' has ended up being the Galaxy Vintage D!

I'd be fascinated to hear your choices too!

Thanks all!



PIANOS MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD (to #36):

8dio 1985 Passionate Piano

Additive Keys Modern Upright

Additive Keys Studio Grand

C. Bechstein Digital Grand

CineSamples CinePiano

CineSamples Piano in Blue

EastWest Bösendorfer 290

EastWest Pianos Platinum

Embertone 1955 Walker Concert D

Emotional Piano

Galaxy Vintage D

Garritan CFX

Impact Soundworks Pearl Concert Grand

Imperfect Samples Fazioli Grand

Ivory II American Concert D

Ivory II Italian Grand

Light & Sound Samples Steinway C

Native Instruments Alicia's Keys

Native Instruments Grandeur

Native Instruments Noire

Native Instruments The Gentleman

Native Instruments The Maverick

Pianoteq

Pianoteq Blüthner

Production Voices Something

Sampletekk TVBO (The Very Big One)

Sampletekk White Grand MK II

Simple Sam Samples Signature Grand

Sonic Atoms Novel Piano

Spitfire Originals Felt Piano

Universal Audio Ravel

UVI Augmented Piano

VI Labs Modern U

VI Labs Ravenscroft 275

VSL Synchron Blüthner

VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial

VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Upright

VSL Synchron Concert D-274 (Steinway)

VSL Synchron Piano Bundle

VSL Synchron Yamaha CFX

VSL Vienna Imperial

Waves Grand Rhapsody

Wavesfactory Tack Piano

Westwood ALT Piano

Whole Sounds Dan McKinney 1954 Baldwin Grand

Woodchester Piano

XPERIMENTA Due

XSample Steinway B


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## doctoremmet (Sep 4, 2020)

Cool thread and a very recognizable topic.

Yes, virtual pianos fascinate me, and I have a fair share of them. Also in the habit of continually acquiring more. Which seems highly correlated with @Simeon releasing new videos, @ChrisSiuMusic proclaiming his undying love for CinePiano, @CGR doing his incredibly fun “Name that piano” game, @Ben posting new teasers of cool VSL pianos,@newman directing us to incredible lists of even more cool pianos, you get the idea.

I don’t even own the Walker yet, but if it’s half as good as say Embertone’s Herring Clarinet or their solo strings, it is no doubt a terrific sounding instrument.

For me, there are a few pianos that I consider essential:

@DanMcKinney | Whole Sounds’ 1954 Baldwin - very versatile, pretty unique sound, does a lot of things in a good way. I mainly play boogie woogie, New Orleans type stuff and blues. Pentatonic scales everywhere, and lots of syncopation. This piano is very much suited for the style.

Also on the UVI platform is Augmented Piano. Maybe it is kind of weird to call it essential, but to me the basic patch is just such a beautiful Pleyel - I couldn’t live without it. Just check out that much revered showcase video by Louis Couka, and fall in love...

The piano I play most I guess is 8dio’s 1985 Passionate Piano, a Yamaha C5. Just a great sample, what can I say.

Then there is Xperimenta Due. Both of ‘em are great, but I prefer the C3 for its slightly darker timbre.

Free but absolutely cool: @Patryk Scelina | Sonic Atoms’ Novel Piano on HalionSonic. Easy on the memory, not a gazillion velocity layers, but it remains one with character and I like it a lot. For sketching purposes, this is my go to piano. But is often remains in the final mix.

Finally: Spitfire Originals Felt Piano. For $29 bucks it is an incredible bargain. For “that hip felt sound” I usually pick this one. Although I have to say lately I have also fooled around with the new Westwood ALT, which is a great addition in this particular subset of pianos. The latest Soft Piano did not grab me yet...

These have been my go to pianos. Recently I purchased the SSSG, my first Sampletekk ones (White Grand mk II and TVBO) and at last I also have just gotten the XSample Steinway B. Next on my shopping list is Light&Sound Samples’ Steinway C.

I just love to play these instruments. Each one comes with a different set of qualities and inspirations. I am not much of a real pianist and don’t really care a lot about specs, number of velocity layers. I don’t do half-pedaling and I like sympathetic resonance, but don’t really miss it when it’s not there. All of my preferences are based on gut feelings and a sense of “plonkability” I guess.

Just my 2 cents! Looking forward to more points of view. And I will ask @Andy Davidson to make a list of all pianos mentioned so I can copy/paste it to my BF shopping list. Cheers!


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## Beans (Sep 4, 2020)

Native Instruments Noire gets a lot of love on here. I'm not sure if I've seen actual, negative criticism on it. Not that it will fit every use case, but it sits at the top of my template (outside of score order) and I never get tired of it.


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## Studio E (Sep 4, 2020)

Pianoteq Bluethner.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 4, 2020)

Beans said:


> Native Instruments Noire gets a lot of love on here. I'm not sure if I've seen actual, negative criticism on it. Not that it will fit every use case, but it sits at the top of my template and I never get tired of it.


I have upgraded to Komplete 13, so I will get this October 1. Have played it before and I agree it is a great instrument. Probably one of the most universally loved pianos.


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## ptram (Sep 4, 2020)

The Grandeur is my choice for a piano loading fast, and with a sound fitting nearly all situations. A bit bass heavy, but I can deal with this.

VSL's Vienna Imperial is the piano I’m using for piano+orchestra pieces. It cuts through very well, is massive, well balanced, and plays well.

The Embertone Walker is my preferred one for classical piano solo.

Paolo


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## keepitsimple (Sep 4, 2020)

I drive many cars for fun but when it comes to a serious race competition, i drive only one: Garritan CFX.


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## GNP (Sep 4, 2020)

I seem to keep going back to Imperfect Samples' Fazioli Grand.


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## FlyingAndi (Sep 4, 2020)

My goto piano is ISW Pearl (I just hope they get the hall mics right, though).
I also love the Simple Sam Signature Grand, which to me still is the most realistic sounding VI piano I've found (although I have to humblebrag that I got 10/10 on the recent Simple Sam contest).

I also agree with @ptram that The Grandeur fits nearly everywhere. And it's fun to play. It's just not that super-impressive as some other pianos.


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## jazzbozo (Sep 4, 2020)

Pianos really started impressing jazz players with the original Ivory Steinway and things have only gotten better since then. Love the Garritan CFX, but my two desert island jazz sampled pianos are the Galaxy Vintage D and Ravencroft Grand. The Galaxy for the 1990s ECM, Verve, and Blue Note Steinway tone, and the Ravencroft feels the closest to me to playing an actual piano.


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## Alex C (Sep 4, 2020)

VI Labs Ravenscroft 275, and when I feel things are getting too sterile, VSL Bosendorfer Upright.


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## PuerAzaelis (Sep 4, 2020)

EW for everything, including the Bosendorfer sample.


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## ngineer (Sep 4, 2020)

The only two so far that made me “forget”, and just play (along with my Kawai MP11 keybed):

VSL Synchron Bosendorfer - Full
Universal Audio’s Ravel (Steinway B) (sadly only inside LUNA, their DAW) (I know, I know @ UA)

Honorable mention to SSSS. It’s an almost for me, but too much noise/hiss buildup that pulls me out of the moment.


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## PaulieDC (Sep 4, 2020)

keepitsimple said:


> I drive many cars for fun but when it comes to a serious race competition, i drive only one: Garritan CFX.


Yep, I second the motion. VSL Steinway is an close contender but the price...

One thing I learned and you were the first to point it out to me over a year ago (and it took me a while for this to sink in), the velocity capability on your controller has WAY more to do with it than anything else. As you know I bought and returned VSL Steinway last year, not understanding what I had. Turned out that my M-Audio CODE61 was the problem... I thought controllers were controllers. That thing belongs in an EDM studio with MIDI 127 velocity Krazy-glued in place, that thing is NOT for piano VSTs.

Anyway, if you had to choose one, Garritan CFX hands down. Worst load times in the industry but so worth it.


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 4, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> Yep, I second the motion. VSL Steinway is an close contender but the price...
> 
> One thing I learned and you were the first to point it out to me over a year ago (and it took me a while for this to sink in), the velocity capability on your controller has WAY more to do with it than anything else. As you know I bought and returned VSL Steinway last year, not understanding what I had. Turned out that my M-Audio CODE61 was the problem... I thought controllers were controllers. That thing belongs in an EDM studio with MIDI 127 velocity Krazy-glued in place, that thing is NOT for piano VSTs.
> 
> Anyway, if you had to choose one, Garritan CFX hands down. Worst load times in the industry but so worth it.


That’s great rig you have. Wow! It’s like too many but great.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 4, 2020)

FlyingAndi said:


> although I have to humblebrag that I got 10/10 on the recent Simple Sam contest


Nice!


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 4, 2020)

I don’t have a go to Piano library & I feel limiting myself if I stick to a particular library so I look. And there are many free ones which are far more better than the paid ones out there.


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## BassClef (Sep 4, 2020)

I do not have many piano libraries but...

1) Pianoteq 2) Noire 3) Additive Keys


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## sostenuto (Sep 4, 2020)

Have numerous with cool characteristics, but as pianist, usually return to _Ivory II _ Italian Grand_.


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## Gerbil (Sep 4, 2020)

Really difficult to choose. The superbly playable Garritan CFX, the beautiful Walker Grand and SSS ... I'm happy with any of those. VSL's Bluthner is very nice as well but not for everything. Their CFX is good with sample orchestras but I never use it for solo stuff. Cinepiano has its charms. Loads gathering dust. This James Joyce style babbling is not helping...

There can be only one: *Embertone Walker.* But if Simple Sam ever decide to expand their piano (more velocity layers etc - I would be happy to pay three or four times the price ) that might take the crown.


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## PaulieDC (Sep 4, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> That’s great rig you have. Wow! It’s like too many but great.


Thanks, but: You're absolutely right, it's "too many" like you said. That's just time and money. After a couple years of orchestration study, I'm working on my first serious piece, and I'm only using BBCSO Core and an ensemble patch in SCS to compose. MAN, if I could start again, the money and aggravation I would save.

WHICH PUTS US BACK ON TOPIC: Dear everyone, buy ONE good piano and move on from there, lol!

OK, soapbox over, lol. Aimed at ME mostly.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2020)

My absolute favourite pianos for my solo stuff would include Piano In Blue, VSL Bösendorfer Imperial and Upright, Experimenta Due C3, and Embertone Walker. I have either written pieces inspired by just loading up one of these and noodling, or chosen one based on an idea I already have in mind.

But I would maybe call my "go-to" piano the wonderful CinePiano, especially if it's going to be in a mix (it seems to automatically sit so well in anything, even in this).


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 4, 2020)

VSL Synchron Steinway D274.

There can only be one........


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## PaulieDC (Sep 4, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> VSL Synchron Steinway D274.
> 
> There can only be one........


I don't have a real wish list anymore but THAT one is #1 for the next sale. Perfect companion to the VSL CFX.


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## Buz (Sep 4, 2020)

This thread happens every month 

I'm still stuck on the VSL CFX. But if I want to play Chopin the D-274 is night and day better - there's no contest. So it's understandable that people end up with 150 piano libraries.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2020)

Buz said:


> This thread happens every month
> 
> I'm still stuck on the VSL CFX. But if I want to play Chopin the D-274 is night and day better - there's no contest. So it's understandable that people end up with 150 piano libraries.


If you want to play Chopin you need the Blüthner!


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> WHICH PUTS US BACK ON TOPIC: Dear everyone, buy ONE good piano and move on from there, lol!


Man, I don't think you have understood the ethos of VI-C at all.


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## Buz (Sep 4, 2020)

Hah! The occasional historically accurate evening with the Blüthner is a huge pleasure. Liszt seems a more natural fit perhaps. You're right there's no possible way that any two pianos could ever be sufficient!


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## vmishka (Sep 4, 2020)

Another vote for Garritan CFX. On my YouTube page in my signature, all of the classical music has been rendered with Garritan CFX except for the Mozart "Coronation" Concerto (K. 537) which used Ivory II Italian Grand.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 4, 2020)

Actually, I've fallen for the entire VSL Synchron Piano bundle in a big way. I just don't use any thing else anymore......

Except for the Ivory II upright collection - they have tack pianos that make me boogie......but in a good way.....


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## doctoremmet (Sep 4, 2020)

Buz said:


> This thread happens every month


You are right but you gotta love the phenomenon. I call it “the piano period”


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## dylanmixer (Sep 4, 2020)

My favorites currently are Piano in Blue, Addictive Keys, and Woodchester Piano for the soft felt. Might upgrade to Komplete 13 for the Noire piano (among other things), since everyone seems to love it.


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## Andy Davidson (Sep 4, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Cool thread and a very recognizable topic.
> 
> Yes, virtual pianos fascinate me, and I have a fair share of them. Also in the habit of continually acquiring more. Which seems highly correlated with @Simeon releasing new videos, @ChrisSiuMusic proclaiming his undying love for CinePiano, @CGR doing his incredibly fun “Name that piano” game, @Ben posting new teasers of cool VSL pianos,@newman directing us to incredible lists of even more cool pianos, you get the idea.
> 
> ...



Thank you! This is fantastic, lots of links and places for me to look up and find even more pianos! The list is on the way for sure, I'll likely edit the first post and keep adding it in there!


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## VladK (Sep 4, 2020)

My current favorites:
- All 6 VSL libraries (including Vienna Imperial)
- C. Bechstein Digital Grand
- Embertone Walker
- Ivory II ACD
- VI Labs Modern U
- Wavesfactory Tack Piano

Garritan CFX and 1954 Baldwin are in my short list, I don't own them yet.


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## PaulieDC (Sep 4, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Man, I don't think you have understood the ethos of VI-C at all.


I actually thought about that while typing, lol!

For the record, I'm an enormous hypocrite. I own:

Garritan CFX
VSL CFX (Steinway WILL follow on next sale)
Noire
R275
EastWest Pianos Platinum
Production Voices _Something_
Waves Grand Rhapsody
The Kontakt Bundles (Grandeur, Maverick, Gentleman, Alicia's Keys)
Whatever they threw into 0ne of the Berlin Inspires
Emotional Piano

I know I'm missing a few, and I'm sure that's a drop in the bucket compared to others on here (Rabih, lol!). So yes, that statement of mine was a bit tongue-in-cheek!


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## Andy Davidson (Sep 4, 2020)

Thanks for all the wonderful comments and feedback folks, makes for fascinating reading.

I've edited the original first post include a list of the pianos mentioned in this thread.

I've a few on the list myself, that have passed me by and I've not paid them enough attention, especially the Native Instruments ones, your comments has inspired me to revisit those and plenty of others too.

Thanks again, much appreciated!


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## PaulieDC (Sep 4, 2020)

If VSL was smart they would hop on here and offer a 40% across-the-board discount for new and upgrades on the VSL VI and Synchron piano line to the members... we are riled up now, the wallets are ready for a deal! They'd make up the discount in volume of sales that wouldn't have happened normally. Where's Ben?!?


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## Living Fossil (Sep 4, 2020)

I think sampled pianos are a difficult topic.
They simple aren't perfectly there yet. In the real thing, there is a lot of interaction going on with other strings resonating according to the texture...this interaction would require lots of additional computing.

As for my favourites, mostly i use either Ivory's American Steinway or Heavyocity's Ascend, usually with quite a bit of additional processing.

Then i like Spitfire's original Felt piano a lot. (I bought it when the LABS were still payed libraries and love it since).

At times, i added Spitfire's Felt piano softly to the Ivory one, it gives a wonderful coloration if mixed in carefully.

Funnily, the last days i was doing a cue where 8dio's "The new 1928 Steinway" was the perfect fit.
What really astonished me that i used it without any further trickery – no EQs, no Precedence, no additional reverb, no PSP piano resonances (pianoverb II), no saturation.
Only two compressors in series with -3dB gain reduction at max (bx opto and Blackrooster's VLA-3A im limiting mode).

And then, there is a dirty little friend inside of Logic's factory library.
I don't remember its exact name, but it's great since everything above soft playing has a completely smashed powerful sound. Hammer some post romantic chords and you have instant Rachmaninov. Of course, you couldn't use that for a production, but sometimes it's fun to boost the creativity. 
And in hybrid scores, they are even really well suited for limited tasks (repetitive low notes, etc.)


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## mikrokosmiko (Sep 4, 2020)

I absolutely love NI Una Corda. Very characteristic sound, not for every situation, but when I write something soft for piano solo or chamber, it is my first option


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## ratherbirds (Sep 4, 2020)

Hi,
NI MAVERICK,
VSL CFX,
IVORY II C7
are the ones I use the most. But I haven't yet found my ideal piano sound.


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## DrSgtShock (Sep 4, 2020)

I still haven’t found my dream piano library. It’s tough because as much as I like the warmer and darker sounding libraries like Emotional Piano I really need something to cut through a rock mix so I end up using a Keyzone Yamaha. Anyone have any favorites with those brighter characteristics?


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## cfodeebiedaddy (Sep 4, 2020)

After years playing with excellent but not-quite-there piano VSTs, I feel like I've started to close in on my holy grails just in the last couple of months. 

The Garritan CFX is nigh on perfect. It has some of the worst demos I think I've heard on the official site, but the rave reviews it gets made me take the plunge anyway, and I couldn't be happier that I did. It sounds amazing and is not far behind Pianoteq for responsiveness. I was late picking my daughter up from school because it was so hard to tear myself away from playing it.

The VI-labs Modern U is the best upright VI I've played. It's amazingly versatile, has the familiarity factor (i.e., when I hear it I'm taken back to lots of pianos I've played), and it feels brilliant under the fingers.

I'd give my honourable mentions to Piano in blue for my grand (it's a niche, but a lovely one) and Addictive Keys for my upright.


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## CGR (Sep 4, 2020)

DrSgtShock said:


> Anyone have any favorites with those brighter characteristics?


If you want bright but still with a lot of body, character and a good dynamic range, consider the Sampletekk White Grand WG2 - which is on sale at the moment. The best $25 you'll ever spend on a sampled piano:









Veevum Series Bundle by Audiofier - Audio Plugin Deals


For only $29.99 instead of $105, get the Veevum Series Bundle featuring a growing series of Ambient and Cinematic instruments for modern producers.




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It does require the full version of Kontakt, but there is also a more basic version which runs in Logic's EXS24MkII sampler. An oldie but a goodie!


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## CGR (Sep 4, 2020)

In response to the thread title - I'll get back to this question on the weekend. I've been mulling over a number of sampled pianos in my mind. It's a tough task!


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## Fleer (Sep 4, 2020)

One piano, two guises: C. Bechstein Digital Grand, from Bechstein and from Pianoteq.


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## Quasar (Sep 4, 2020)

Galaxy Vintage D for sonics, Pianoteq for playing.


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## DrSgtShock (Sep 4, 2020)

CGR said:


> If you want bright but still with a lot of body, character and a good dynamic range, consider the Sampletekk White Grand WG2 - which is on sale at the moment. The best $25 you'll ever spend on a sampled piano:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the rec. Killer price, too!


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## MSutherlandComp (Sep 4, 2020)

Simple Sam Signature Grand!


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 4, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> Thanks, but: You're absolutely right, it's "too many" like you said. That's just time and money. After a couple years of orchestration study, I'm working on my first serious piece, and I'm only using BBCSO Core and an ensemble patch in SCS to compose. MAN, if I could start again, the money and aggravation I would save.
> 
> WHICH PUTS US BACK ON TOPIC: Dear everyone, buy ONE good piano and move on from there, lol!
> 
> OK, soapbox over, lol. Aimed at ME mostly.


Lol!


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 4, 2020)

CGR said:


> If you want bright but still with a lot of body, character and a good dynamic range, consider the Sampletekk White Grand WG2 - which is on sale at the moment. The best $25 you'll ever spend on a sampled piano:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Steinway D grand ? That’s a damn good deal.


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## Fleer (Sep 4, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> Thanks, but: You're absolutely right, it's "too many" like you said. That's just time and money. After a couple years of orchestration study, I'm working on my first serious piece, and I'm only using BBCSO Core and an ensemble patch in SCS to compose. MAN, if I could start again, the money and aggravation I would save.
> 
> WHICH PUTS US BACK ON TOPIC: Dear everyone, buy ONE good piano and move on from there, lol!
> 
> OK, soapbox over, lol. Aimed at ME mostly.


The horror!


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## CGR (Sep 5, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Steinway D grand ? That’s a damn good deal.


It's an old Concert Grand piano (very early 1900's I think?) by the Swedish piano manufacturer Malmsjo (the same brand used in Art Vista's famous sampled piano).


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## CGR (Sep 5, 2020)

After much thought and restricting myself to just ONE sampled piano, I'm going with the 11 year old VSL Vienna Imperial. For me, it plays and sounds as close to a real piano as it gets. A huge variation in tone & dynamics (100 velocity layers), real una corda samples, re-pedalling and 3 mic positions with some beautiful built-in custom reverb impulse responses from Vienna concert halls. It can get big and bold and orchestral, but also close & warm & intimate. Also, it happily runs off a 7200 HDD, and the VSL Player is rock solid in my experience. If the release samples were a little tighter, and it had the tweaking options and individual note editing of the VSL Synchron Pianos, I'd call it a day in my search for THE ONE.


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## Pianolando (Sep 5, 2020)

Garritan CFX is my go to piano. It’s an EXTREMELY solid library, super versatile, super playable but also super clean, which sometimes makes me feel I want something with a bit more character. Garritan CFX never sounds bad or wrong, which makes it an excellent first alternative for almost anything.
Right now I’m recording an album with piano and 18 live strings and I’m leaning on using the Walker with the room mic as it sounds really beautiful and alive in such an exposed context. This thread got me interested in the Synchron D-274 though, maybe I have to buy that one to compare it. IRL I love Hamburg steinways more than anything else I’ve ever tried.


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## CGR (Sep 5, 2020)

Pianolando said:


> Garritan CFX is my go to piano. It’s an EXTREMELY solid library, super versatile, super playable but also super clean, which sometimes makes me feel I want something with a bit more character. Garritan CFX never sounds bad or wrong, which makes it an excellent first alternative for almost anything.
> Right now I’m recording an album with piano and 18 live strings and I’m leaning on using the Walker with the room mic as it sounds really beautiful and alive in such an exposed context. This thread got me interested in the Synchron D-274 though, maybe I have to buy that one to compare it. IRL I love Hamburg steinways more than anything else I’ve ever tried.


The Garritan CFX was a close 3rd for me, but I agree about it maybe lacking in character, which is why I went for the VSL Vienna Imperial. Also, my very close 2nd choice was the Embertone Walker D with my preferred Hammer & Room mic combination. It's a thing of beauty, with character and "soul" in spades. Plus the multi layered & timed release samples and staccato samples are fantastic. And it has real Una Corda Samples.


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## ptram (Sep 5, 2020)

CGR said:


> If the release samples were a little tighter, and it had the tweaking options and individual note editing of the VSL Synchron Pianos, I'd call it a day in my search for THE ONE.


You know it for sure, but I want to remind that the Key Editor page gives access to editing of volume, dynamic and EQ of each key. No chance for the release, I think, being automatically selected by the player.

Paolo


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## CGR (Sep 5, 2020)

ptram said:


> You know it for sure, but I want to remind that the Key Editor page gives access to editing of volume, dynamic and EQ of each key. No chance for the release, I think, being automatically selected by the player.
> 
> Paolo


Yes! I had forgotten about that per-note editing feature. I'm even more happy with my choice 
VSL were really way ahead of the game back in 2009, and today.


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## TomislavEP (Sep 5, 2020)

This is a very difficult question for me. I find every type as well as the brand of pianos different and unique and more or less suitable for a certain situation. However, Noire is more and more my go-to virtual piano, both sound and feature-wise.

Other than that, I extensively use all the piano libraries from Native Instruments plus a few others from Embertone, Spitfire, Sound Dust, and of course Pianobook.


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## Alex C (Sep 5, 2020)

Despite its popularity, I did end up deleting the Walker Steinway from my HD because tonally it's not even enough across the keys.


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## cfodeebiedaddy (Sep 5, 2020)

CGR said:


> The Garritan CFX was a close 3rd for me, but I agree about it maybe lacking in character, which is why I went for the VSL Vienna Imperial. Also, my very close 2nd choice was the Embertone Walker D with my preferred Hammer & Room mic combination. It's a thing of beauty, with character and "soul" in spades. Plus the multi layered & timed release samples and staccato samples are fantastic. And it has real Una Corda Samples.



Interesting to hear your take on the Embertone Walker D. I got the lite version a while ago thinking that if I liked it, I'd upgrade to the full version. Do you know if the lite version actually gives much of a sense of what to expect from the full package? It did absolutely nothing for me, but I don't know whether it's fair to judge the full library from that snippet (though if it isn't, I wonder why Embertone would have it available!).


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## Pianolando (Sep 5, 2020)

CGR said:


> The Garritan CFX was a close 3rd for me, but I agree about it maybe lacking in character, which is why I went for the VSL Vienna Imperial. Also, my very close 2nd choice was the Embertone Walker D with my preferred Hammer & Room mic combination. It's a thing of beauty, with character and "soul" in spades. Plus the multi layered & timed release samples and staccato samples are fantastic. And it has real Una Corda Samples.



Yeah, the Walker is a thing of beauty for sure, I do agree with some posters why say it’s not as even as some other offers but that adds to the character. Garritan is so even that it lacks some personality, but it always does what my fingers tell it to do!
I have to try the Hammer-Room combo, when I tried Close+Room it phased out from time to time and I’m allergic to that.
Have you tried the Steinway or CFX from VSL? Unfortunately Boesendorfers is not my preferred piano, otherwise I would definitely try the Imperial!


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## CGR (Sep 5, 2020)

cfodeebiedaddy said:


> Interesting to hear your take on the Embertone Walker D. I got the lite version a while ago thinking that if I liked it, I'd upgrade to the full version. Do you know if the lite version actually gives much of a sense of what to expect from the full package? It did absolutely nothing for me, but I don't know whether it's fair to judge the full library from that snippet (though if it isn't, I wonder why Embertone would have it available!).


The full version is a considerable upgrade from the lite version. Apart from an extra 24 velocity layers per note which is very noticeable on a weighted, hammer action keyboard, the option of adding extra mic sets really opens up the tone & depth shaping possibilities. I almost never use the default/standard mic position (which is the only mic set in the Lite version).


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## CGR (Sep 5, 2020)

Pianolando said:


> Yeah, the Walker is a thing of beauty for sure, I do agree with some posters why say it’s not as even as some other offers but that adds to the character. Garritan is so even that it lacks some personality, but it always does what my fingers tell it to do!
> I have to try the Hammer-Room combo, when I tried Close+Room it phased out from time to time and I’m allergic to that.
> Have you tried the Steinway or CFX from VSL? Unfortunately Boesendorfers is not my preferred piano, otherwise I would definitely try the Imperial!


I agree there are some slight phasing issues to watch out for when mixing mics in the Embertone Walker D. Haven't found it to be a problem with a 100% Hammer 40-50% Room mix. I have the VSL Steinway Lite which is impressive, but not the Synchron CFX or Bosendorfer Imperial. I do have the full version of the Synchron Bosendorfer Upright and the Standard Synchron Bluthner Grand, both of which are extremely well sampled and scripted, and fantastic to play and record with. The old Vienna Imperial is quite a different character to the new Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial, which from what I've heard is a more precise and chiselled sounding tone compared to the rounder & warmer Vienna Imperial, but both are distinctly "Bosendorfer".


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 5, 2020)

CGR said:


> It's an old Concert Grand piano (very early 1900's I think?) by the Swedish piano manufacturer Malmsjo (the same brand used in Art Vista's famous sampled piano).


Thanks! Never even heard about it or Art Vista.


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## Alfeus Aditya (Sep 5, 2020)

I have tried many pianos, from mini grand, embertone, garritan cfx, sampletekk, several native instruments, east west, to the phenomenal "signature grand" lately .. I try to love them, but always come back to NI grandeur. Maybe I am in the minority who like the sterile piano like the grandeur.


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## Fleer (Sep 5, 2020)

CGR said:


> It's an old Concert Grand piano (very early 1900's I think?) by the Swedish piano manufacturer Malmsjo (the same brand used in Art Vista's famous sampled piano).


An amazingly good sounding grand indeed.


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## rojarvi (Sep 5, 2020)

I'm also in the Garritan CFX camp - it's just so beautifully voiced and the most playable piano library for me. I have the full version naturally. I have one of the compact libraries loading up in Aria player startup and it's perfectly fine for casual playing. In more serious production I load up the full sample set in Cubase. I have to say Garritan is by far the best out-of-the-box experience I've encountered so far in piano libraries. I find it perfect for both classical solo pieces and modern soft piano compositions requiring bright sounding piano.

Embertone Walker D is my recent purchase (full mics) and also it sounds really good when you are after the Steinway sound. Totally different character to Yamaha CFX. I haven't had enough time to play with it yet but so far it sounds like it suits very wide range of styles and with different mics you can get lots of different sounds out of it. I can imagine it is very well suited for in-the-mix use cases whereas Garritan to me sounds more like a solo piano library. The most annoying thing so far has been the occasional cracks and pops coming out of it. Haven't found yet a good setting to allow 3-4 different mics positions playing at once. 

Then there is Impact Soundworks Pearl Grand which has a lot of potential. I find the generic sound quite Steinway-ish even if it is a Yamaha grand which has been sampled. Unfortunately there has been quite many technical issues - notes hanging in the background and the hall mic bug already mentioned here. But, it's quite pleasing sounding and I hope they get it fixed to get the full potential out.

One of the most underrated piano libraries when you consider the price is... Sonivox EightyEight. I've seen it often going for dirt cheap and it's actually pretty good sounding piano! It was one of my first piano libraries and I have warm memories from using it. 

I've got quite many more pianos but those are the ones I like to use or have been using before. I recently bough also 8Dio 1985 Passionate Piano as it seems to get quite a lot of praise around here. Haven't really tried it yet other than just try that it works - first impression was it may be something for a "character piano" type sounds for cinematic stuff etc.

As "it is known" that one cannot just have enough piano libraries I've got my eyes on Synthogy Ivory II American Grand D - and also as I haven't yet tried anything from VSL it's something that interests me. Not also counting out Pianoteq, haven't ever tried it as I've been more into sampled pianos but maybe it's at least worth trying the demos. And.. and... and...


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## RonOrchComp (Sep 5, 2020)

The SFA HZ piano is it for me.


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 5, 2020)

rojarvi said:


> I'm also in the Garritan CFX camp - it's just so beautifully voiced and the most playable piano library for me. I have the full version naturally. I have one of the compact libraries loading up in Aria player startup and it's perfectly fine for casual playing. In more serious production I load up the full sample set in Cubase. I have to say Garritan is by far the best out-of-the-box experience I've encountered so far in piano libraries. I find it perfect for both classical solo pieces and modern soft piano compositions requiring bright sounding piano.
> 
> Embertone Walker D is my recent purchase (full mics) and also it sounds really good when you are after the Steinway sound. Totally different character to Yamaha CFX. I haven't had enough time to play with it yet but so far it sounds like it suits very wide range of styles and with different mics you can get lots of different sounds out of it. I can imagine it is very well suited for in-the-mix use cases whereas Garritan to me sounds more like a solo piano library. The most annoying thing so far has been the occasional cracks and pops coming out of it. Haven't found yet a good setting to allow 3-4 different mics positions playing at once.
> 
> ...


Sonivox Piano is not just a pretty good one but a damn freakin good one. I wonder & very rarely I hear that fluidity in tone, when it comes to music sampling.


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## CGR (Sep 5, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Sonivox Piano is not just a pretty good one but a damn freakin good one. I wonder & very rarely I hear that fluidity in tone, when it comes to music sampling.


I agree - although it has no multi mic perspectives, the stereo mix they provide is very well engineered - not artificially wide, and it handles reverb well. Must call it up again and rediscover it


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## Thundercat (Sep 6, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Man, I don't think you have understood the ethos of VI-C at all.


Yeah I think he should be put on probation until he understands he needs to go bankrupt buying sample libraries. Wasn’t that in the EULA?


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## NYC Composer (Sep 6, 2020)

Art Vista VGP 2.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 6, 2020)

CGR said:


> I agree there are some slight phasing issues to watch out for when mixing mics in the Embertone Walker D. Haven't found it to be a problem with a 100% Hammer 40-50% Room mix.


Yes, I ran into some phasing when I first experimented with mixing 3 or more mics on the Embertone, but no issues with my now-preferred Hammer + Main, which sounds wonderfully rich and full-bodied.


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## kelexys (Sep 6, 2020)

Are any of you using some of these piano's to release your piano compositions, professionally ? I'm gonna start recording some solo piano pieces, but still not sure which one to take. I want to release on youtube and spotify. I own , Garritan, Noire, Ravenscroft 275 and XperimentaDue . I love playing them, they each have their own beautiful sound. But when I record my songs there's just something missing , soundwise. I also have an acoustic kawai, and I want to recreate the feelings and emotions I get when playing that piano. But maybe that will be impossible


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## doctoremmet (Sep 6, 2020)

kelexys said:


> Are any of you using some of these piano's to release your piano compositions, professionally ? I'm gonna start recording some solo piano pieces, but still not sure which one to take. I want to release on youtube and spotify. I own , Garritan, Noire, Ravenscroft 275 and XperimentaDue . I love playing them, they each have their own beautiful sound. But when I record my songs there's just something missing , soundwise. I also have an acoustic kawai, and I want to recreate the feelings and emotions I get when playing that piano. But maybe that will be impossible


I think Craig definitely does. @CGR?


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## CGR (Sep 6, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Yes, I ran into some phasing when I first experimented with mixing 3 or more mics on the Embertone, but no issues with my now-preferred Hammer + Main, which sounds wonderfully rich and full-bodied.


I think that's the key with this piano because it's so dense & rich sounding - no more than an mix of 2 mic perspectives seems to give the best results.


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## CGR (Sep 6, 2020)

kelexys said:


> Are any of you using some of these piano's to release your piano compositions, professionally ? I'm gonna start recording some solo piano pieces, but still not sure which one to take. I want to release on youtube and spotify. I own , Garritan, Noire, Ravenscroft 275 and XperimentaDue . I love playing them, they each have their own beautiful sound. But when I record my songs there's just something missing , soundwise. I also have an acoustic kawai, and I want to recreate the feelings and emotions I get when playing that piano. But maybe that will be impossible


I've used the following sampled pianos in production library music tracks:

• Garritan CFX Full
• 8dio 1928 Steinway
• 8dio 1969 Steinway
• Native Instruments Una Corda
• Native Instruments Maverick
• Production Voices Production Grand (Yamaha C7)

They have all been used within a mix, some - like the Garritan CFX - more exposed than others.
I almost always have a varying chain of EQ, compression, saturation & reverb with them, even in the more exposed tracks, which has been a lengthy process of of listening, referencing, researching/reading and trial & error. It's always a fine balance between enhancing the sound to "commercial" standards without obvious processing (unless your going for that effect or sound by design). Acoustic pianos (real & sampled) can get a little muddy or congested in the 250-275kHz range, so it's often a frequency area worth keeping a check on even in solo piano tracks, and also employing a HPF on the piano if there are other bass heavy instruments in a multi instrument track.

Of my personal album releases which are on Spotify, Apple Music, Bandcamp etc. I've used the following sampled pianos, some in solo tracks:

• UVI Augmented Piano
• UVI Keysuite Acoustic Pianos
• Cinesamples Piano in Blue
• e-instruments Session Keys Upright Piano
• Michael Picher's Basilica Grand
• Piano Premier At First Light Steinway grand
• Imperfect Samples Braunschweig Upright
• Soundiron Emotional Piano (Kawai Grand)
• VSL Bosendorfer Upright
• VSL Vienna Imperial
+ some other sampled uprights


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## JonS (Sep 6, 2020)

Favorite pianos are in order of preference:

1-VSL Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial
2-VSL Synchron Yamaha CFX
3-VSL Synchron Steinway 
4-Ivory II American Concert D
5-Ivory II Italian


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## Pianolando (Sep 6, 2020)

kelexys said:


> Are any of you using some of these piano's to release your piano compositions, professionally ? I'm gonna start recording some solo piano pieces, but still not sure which one to take. I want to release on youtube and spotify. I own , Garritan, Noire, Ravenscroft 275 and XperimentaDue . I love playing them, they each have their own beautiful sound. But when I record my songs there's just something missing , soundwise. I also have an acoustic kawai, and I want to recreate the feelings and emotions I get when playing that piano. But maybe that will be impossible



I am. I did my first album with live strings and Ivory 2 Steinway back in 2011. It’s cinematic and romantic music and heavily piano based.
Today Ivory 2 is a bit dated, but with today’s top libraries I feel confident that the result is comparable to if I booked a studio with a world class grand. The experience of playing is another thing entirely, luckily I have a Yamaha silent upright so I am performing on a real piano but obviously it’s very different from sitting in front of a real grabd without headphones.

Right now I’m working on a second album, and is planning on using Walker, Garritan CFX or possibly the Synchron D-274 if I buy that. The reason I use sample libraries is that it’s not worth it renting a top studio for the 3 days it would take me to record the music when I can do the piano myself in the box and use all the budget on one day in the studio with 18 strings and one day with four woodwind players. They will all record to my pre recorded piano tracks and occasionally a click track when the tempo is steady. I did my last album that way and it turned out pretty good, but I’m hoping for an even better result this time.


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## CGR (Sep 6, 2020)

Pianolando said:


> . . . Right now I’m working on a second album, and is planning on using Walker, Garritan CFX or possibly the Synchron D-274 if I buy that. The reason I use sample libraries is that it’s not worth it renting a top studio for the 3 days it would take me to record the music when I can do the piano myself in the box and use all the budget on one day in the studio with 18 strings and one day with four woodwind players. They will all record to my pre recorded piano tracks and occasionally a click track when the tempo is steady. I did my last album that way and it turned out pretty good, but I’m hoping for an even better result this time.


Those are solid choices. Despite the high standard of sampled pianos available, I still produce tracks for other musicians and producers using the acoustic Hamburg Steinway Model D grand in the studio at which I work. The piano has a custom fitted, high resolution MIDI record & playback mechanism. Best of both worlds - the tracks can be played, tweaked & perfected at leisure remotely, and then sent to us to record the MIDI playing back on a real piano in a recording studio with high end mics, preamps & converters. We just completed a 10 track album last month for a UK based producer who has worked with some of the biggest names in the pop world.


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## FlyingAndi (Sep 6, 2020)

kelexys said:


> Are any of you using some of these piano's to release your piano compositions, professionally ? I'm gonna start recording some solo piano pieces, but still not sure which one to take. I want to release on youtube and spotify. I own , Garritan, Noire, Ravenscroft 275 and XperimentaDue . I love playing them, they each have their own beautiful sound. But when I record my songs there's just something missing , soundwise. I also have an acoustic kawai, and I want to recreate the feelings and emotions I get when playing that piano. But maybe that will be impossible


Jordan Rudess' album Notes on a dream was recorded with synthogy ivory ii pianos.


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## rojarvi (Sep 6, 2020)

FlyingAndi said:


> Jordan Rudess' album Notes on a dream was recorded with synthogy ivory ii pianos.


Yes, Jordan also used Ivory pianos on the latest DT record according to an article on Synthogy web site. If it’s good enough for him... Gotta remember that when I eventually go into a debate within my mind about whether to purchase it or not.


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## kelexys (Sep 6, 2020)

Wow, that's a lot o


CGR said:


> I've used the following sampled pianos in production library music tracks:
> 
> • Garritan CFX Full
> • 8dio 1928 Steinway
> ...




Wow, that's a lot of vst's :D 
I'll check them out,thanks. What's the name of your album on Spotify?Will give it a listen


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## kelexys (Sep 6, 2020)

Pianolando said:


> I am. I did my first album with live strings and Ivory 2 Steinway back in 2011. It’s cinematic and romantic music and heavily piano based.
> Today Ivory 2 is a bit dated, but with today’s top libraries I feel confident that the result is comparable to if I booked a studio with a world class grand. The experience of playing is another thing entirely, luckily I have a Yamaha silent upright so I am performing on a real piano but obviously it’s very different from sitting in front of a real grabd without headphones.
> 
> Right now I’m working on a second album, and is planning on using Walker, Garritan CFX or possibly the Synchron D-274 if I buy that. The reason I use sample libraries is that it’s not worth it renting a top studio for the 3 days it would take me to record the music when I can do the piano myself in the box and use all the budget on one day in the studio with 18 strings and one day with four woodwind players. They will all record to my pre recorded piano tracks and occasionally a click track when the tempo is steady. I did my last album that way and it turned out pretty good, but I’m hoping for an even better result this time.



So you feel that using sample libraries doesn't take something away from the music and emotions you want to capture? Where can I listen to your album ?


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## doctoremmet (Sep 6, 2020)




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## Pianolando (Sep 6, 2020)

kelexys said:


> So you feel that using sample libraries doesn't take something away from the music and emotions you want to capture? Where can I listen to your album ?



It definitely makes it harder for me too feel the emotions while recording, but the result is just as emotional as I want and what I feel when playing is a low priority for me. My first album only exists in physical media but three of the tracks are here: https://soundcloud.com/andreas-landegren
That is with Ivory 2 and 13 live strings (overdubbed one time). That is back when I didn't have either the tools or knowledge I have now when it somes to mixing so hopefully it will be better this time around, even if I'm proud of the last album aswell.

This are two previews for my new album, this time it's the Walker piano with the room mics:


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## Joulupukki (Sep 6, 2020)

I've never spend a lot of money for piano vsts. The following budget pianos do the job well enough... 

Profonity Instruments Concert Grand
Westwood Instruments Alt-Piano
Soundiron Emotional Piano
Native Instruments Alicia Keys
Hephaestus Sounds Gran Coda


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## kelexys (Sep 6, 2020)

Pianolando said:


> It definitely makes it harder for me too feel the emotions while recording, but the result is just as emotional as I want and what I feel when playing is a low priority for me. My first album only exists in physical media but three of the tracks are here: https://soundcloud.com/andreas-landegren
> That is with Ivory 2 and 13 live strings (overdubbed one time). That is back when I didn't have either the tools or knowledge I have now when it somes to mixing so hopefully it will be better this time around, even if I'm proud of the last album aswell.
> 
> This are two previews for my new album, this time it's the Walker piano with the room mics:




Beautiful songs, thanks for sharing! 
I find the Walker has a slightly warmer, richer tone. I like those recordings. Are they dry or processed ?


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## Pianolando (Sep 6, 2020)

kelexys said:


> Beautiful songs, thanks for sharing!
> I find the Walker has a slightly warmer, richer tone. I like those recordings. Are they dry or processed ?


That's very kind of you , thank you!

The Walker is unprocessed but has 7th heaven reverb on it, Sandors hall at about -10dB. A highly recommended plugin! IMHO the Walker is much better than Ivory 2, but the question I have to find out is if it's better than Garritan CFX and Synchron D-274. Mayby I should start a thread in the Members compositions forum and post some comparisons!


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## doctoremmet (Sep 6, 2020)

Pianolando said:


> That's very kind of you , thank you!
> 
> The Walker is unprocessed but has 7th heaven reverb on it, Sandors hall at about -10dB. A highly recommended plugin! IMHO the Walker is much better than Ivory 2, but the question I have to find out is if it's better than Garritan CFX and Synchron D-274. Mayby I should start a thread in the Members compositions forum and post some comparisons!


As a Walker n00b: what mics are recommended buys? Do you need all? Or is there a way to save money


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## doctoremmet (Sep 6, 2020)

Pianolando said:


> Mayby I should start a thread in the Members compositions forum and post some comparisons!


Please do. I’m a sucker for that type of thing. Piano comparisons and reverb comparisons. A combination of both would even be better!


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## SupremeFist (Sep 6, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> As a Walker n00b: what mics are recommended buys? Do you need all? Or is there a way to save money


The full version is really incredible value, and you won't ever know if you're missing the mic that's right for you unless you have them all.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 6, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Or is there a way to save money


Of course not Emmet


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## SupremeFist (Sep 6, 2020)

CGR said:


> I think that's the key with this piano because it's so dense & rich sounding - no more than an mix of 2 mic perspectives seems to give the best results.


Agreed! By contrast I think the Synchron pianos I have (both Bosies and the Blüthner) really benefit from a mix of 5-6 mics from the full libraries.


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## Pianolando (Sep 6, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> As a Walker n00b: what mics are recommended buys? Do you need all? Or is there a way to save money


I bought all but do not use anything else than Close, room and hammer. The rest are more esoteric and not for me I think.


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## NekujaK (Sep 7, 2020)

I do most of my writing on the *Miroslav Concert Grand*. Yes, it's an old and and unsophisticated library, but it has a pleasing (to me) tone, and very consistent dynamics throughout. It responds just right to my natural playing pressure - I know exactly how it'll respond when I play it, which is more than I can say for a lot of piano libraries I've tried.

In terms of recording a pure straight-ahead piano, I usually use *Toontrack's EZkeys Upright Piano* or *Addictive Keys Studio Grand*.

For a more "crafted" tone, I lean towards *Noire *or *Death Piano*. I LOVE Death Piano's default preset.


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## CGR (Sep 7, 2020)

NekujaK said:


> I do most of my writing on the *Miroslav Concert Grand*. Yes, it's an old and and unsophisticated library, but it has a pleasing (to me) tone, and very consistent dynamics throughout. It responds just right to my natural playing pressure - I know exactly how it'll respond when I play it, which is more than I can say for a lot of piano libraries I've tried.
> 
> In terms of recording a pure straight-ahead piano, I usually use *Toontrack's EZkeys Upright Piano* or *Addictive Keys Studio Grand*.
> 
> For a more "crafted" tone, I lean towards *Noire *or *Death Piano*. I LOVE Death Piano's default preset.


I've been curious about the Miroslav Concert Grand, and like the tone I've heard in some Youtube clips. Any info you can share regarding the piano they sampled, and how many velocity layers? Does it also have release samples?


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## doctoremmet (Sep 7, 2020)

NekujaK said:


> I do most of my writing on the *Miroslav Concert Grand*. Yes, it's an old and and unsophisticated library, but it has a pleasing (to me) tone, and very consistent dynamics throughout. It responds just right to my natural playing pressure - I know exactly how it'll respond when I play it, which is more than I can say for a lot of piano libraries I've tried.
> 
> In terms of recording a pure straight-ahead piano, I usually use *Toontrack's EZkeys Upright Piano* or *Addictive Keys Studio Grand*.
> 
> For a more "crafted" tone, I lean towards *Noire *or *Death Piano*. I LOVE Death Piano's default preset.


This post really makes me want to fire up my Miroslav Philharmonik 2 once again. I haven’t been spending enough time with it lately, and I must say I haven’t tried the piano in ages. The organ is also very good in that collection. But I digress.

Slightly on topic: any love for the SampleTank pianos? I remember quite liking the Brandenburger and the Alan Parsons ones, but what about that C7 that’s in ST4? Any afficionados out there?


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## doctoremmet (Sep 7, 2020)




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## doctoremmet (Sep 7, 2020)

CGR said:


> I've been curious about the Miroslav Concert Grand, and like the tone I've heard in some Youtube clips. Any info you can share regarding the piano they sampled, and how many velocity layers? Does it also have release samples?


I quite like this!


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## Werty (Sep 7, 2020)

most vst, with sustain pedal down, they sound very realistic and pleasant. But without pedal they are all a bit boxy. On an acoustic piano the sound is huge even without pedal, so what do you think?


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## Werty (Sep 7, 2020)

Pianolando said:


> It definitely makes it harder for me too feel the emotions while recording, but the result is just as emotional as I want and what I feel when playing is a low priority for me. My first album only exists in physical media but three of the tracks are here: https://soundcloud.com/andreas-landegren
> That is with Ivory 2 and 13 live strings (overdubbed one time). That is back when I didn't have either the tools or knowledge I have now when it somes to mixing so hopefully it will be better this time around, even if I'm proud of the last album aswell.
> 
> This are two previews for my new album, this time it's the Walker piano with the room mics:




so nice, great music! if I can give you a tip, you should find a way to make it louder, we have the tendency to like things when they are loud enough, but in your tunes I had to adjust the vol, which tricks our brain into thinking that the song is good but not amazing, when in fact the tune itself is really amazing.


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 7, 2020)

CGR said:


> I've used the following sampled pianos in production library music tracks:
> 
> • Garritan CFX Full
> • 8dio 1928 Steinway
> ...


Damn! I don’t even understand why keeping so many libraries. I do agree that people like choices & yet, it looks like too many. I wonder if this hunger ends at all.


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## T-LeffoH (Sep 7, 2020)

I'm kind of surprised not to see The Giant on here.

Of all the pianos I have from Komplete, besides The Grandeur, I've used that one the most, especially if I'm going for the Thomas Newman sound.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 7, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Damn! I don’t even understand why keeping so many libraries. I do agree that people like choices & yet, it looks like too many. I wonder if this hunger ends at all.


Craig is a professional piano player and producer. Each track may ask for a specific sound or character, and each of his customers will have their own requirements, demands, wishes and taste. He can cater to those by offering them different choices. So it’s pretty clear that he would have a decent palette of choices. It’s like a professional recording studio having ten guitar amplifiers around, because some clients prefer a VOX AC30 and others swear by a Twin Reverb. It’s why guitar players own and maintain various models of Strats, etcetera.


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 7, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Craig is a professional piano player and producer. Each track may ask for a specific sound or character, and each of his customers will have their own requirements, demands, wishes and taste. He can cater to those by offering them different choices. So it’s pretty clear that he would have a decent palette of choices. It’s like a professional recording studio having ten guitar amplifiers around, because some clients prefer a VOX AC30 and others swear by a Twin Reverb. It’s why guitar players own and maintain various models of Strats, etcetera.


Yea I see guitar players do. But when it comes to Piano, I mostly think not many types yes I am addressing the Acoustic pieces but when it comes to the VIs, yea there are many but overall they possess the generic sound that a piano has to offer but yea there’s jazz, classical, rock and roll & pop yes & yea you can tell the difference like there’s from what you hear in a Natasha Bedingfield’s & Argerich’s but often I doubt how long, rather how fair a particular sample can justify the requirements of a particular project. I knew Hans got this old acoustic broken piano? for few cues in Man of Steel & that suited so well but these things, I guess, are more simplified when it comes to the sample libraries. You’re right but there are many free ones as well like few from Spitfire’s Pianobook? And sometimes, don’t you get confused with what you hear, when you have those many?


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## doctoremmet (Sep 7, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Yea I see guitar players do. But when it comes to Piano, I mostly think not many types yes I am addressing the Acoustic pieces but when it comes to the VIs, yea there are many but overall they possess the generic sound that a piano has to offer but yea there’s jazz, classical, rock and roll & pop yes & yea you can tell the difference like there’s from what you hear in a Natasha Bedingfield’s & Argerich’s but often I doubt how long, rather how fair a particular sample can justify the requirements of a particular project. I knew Hans got this old acoustic broken piano? for few cues in Man of Steel & that suited so well but these things, I guess, are more simplified when it comes to the sample libraries. You’re right but there are many free ones as well like few from Spitfire’s Pianobook? And sometimes, don’t you get confused with what you hear, when you have those many?


Exactly, the reason Pianobook exists is because there are so many nuances and differences, sometimes subtle - often pretty recognizable or even drastic - in tone, playability, response. People like to record that, sample it, in order to be able to share their experience with others. That’s why Pianobook is fun and a success. 

Of course, I’d lie if I were to say to you I could distinguish between any and all pianos I own and use - either in context or exposed - but I do hear the differences. And sometimes I need the staccatissimo of the 8dio Yamaha C5 and at other times I feel I prefer the much softer tones of the Westwood Alt piano with some textures blended in. It’s like Simeon often says in his reviews or rather play-throughs... each piano has a distinct character and invokes different emotions and hence different playing.

And there is definitely a total irrational hoarding thing going on as well. You’re absolutely right about that


----------



## NekujaK (Sep 7, 2020)

CGR said:


> I've been curious about the Miroslav Concert Grand, and like the tone I've heard in some Youtube clips. Any info you can share regarding the piano they sampled, and how many velocity layers? Does it also have release samples?


I have the old original Miroslav Gold, so I don't know if the pianos have been updated in IK's more recent Miroslav Philharmonik 2 package.

In Miroslav Gold, there are two pianos, a Steinway Concert Grand and simply a Grand Piano. I misspoke in my original post, it's not the Concert Grand that I prefer, but actually the Grand Piano, although both are very playable. These are simple and primitive instruments: 1 velocity layer and no release samples. The Grand Piano is split into two patches: Forte and MF. So between them, I suppose there are 2 velocity layers, but each patch still responds to velocity expressively.

Like I mentioned in my original post, I only use this piano for composing because I like the feel of how it plays and the consistent tone. For recording, I rely on other pianos, as mentioned in my post.


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## Hendrixon (Sep 7, 2020)

Soniccuture's The Hammersmith is my fav.

Its so rich harmonically, full of resonances and with 21 dynamic layers it has a smooth dynamic range.
It was recorded with top of the line mics, on a Neve console, in a top quality studio (Mark Knofler's), by an engineer that recorded and produced Rush, Supertramp, America, Paul McCartney, Frank Zappa, Jeff Beck to name some.
Btw, I learned all that only AFTER I concluded I liked the piano that much 

It was also recorded with a Neumann KU 100 dummy head binaural stereo microphone, an $8k+ mic in the player's position. I love this mic+position cause I like thinking its me playing lol
Also, it's a pretty dry piano, dry as in no 1.2sec tale woosh on all mics. it will work perfectly with any reverb (no room clash).

Of the deeply sampled I prefer it over Garritan CFX and Walker D.

Of the non deeply sampled pianos I like Vintage D, Signature, Granduer.
I don't like Noire, it has an auto filter on it that ruins it.


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## Living Fossil (Sep 7, 2020)

Werty said:


> most vst, with sustain pedal down, they sound very realistic and pleasant. But without pedal they are all a bit boxy. On an acoustic piano the sound is huge even without pedal, so what do you think?



That's the big problem.
In my experience, PSP's pianoverb can help a lot; but it's some fiddling until you find the appropriate settings.
I use this as an insert – with only few wet and much more dry signal – before the 3D placement (usually precedence) and the reverbs.






PSP PianoVerb2 | PSPaudioware







www.pspaudioware.com





There is also a free version (and it's really helpful too):
http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/reverbs/psp_pianoverb/
You should try this! At the point where you start hearing it, dial it back a bit.

Another thing that helps is saturation.
Although it's not "natural", it helps to get a more natural result, since the interaction of different notes brings out specific frequencies which on their part get enriched by the saturation.
So the "saturation" mimics in some way the resonances that are going on in the real thing.
(Another advantage of saturation: if you have e.g. two notes within the same velocity layer, the sample will in both cases have the same spectral content – opposed to the real thing. With saturation, the louder note gets more saturation, so the louder played sample has more additional spectral content.

Of course, what i described in regards to the saturation, is – mildly put – not exactly scientific. 
But the results you can get (specially with multiband saturation) are really good.


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## Werty (Sep 7, 2020)

Living Fossil said:


> That's the big problem.
> In my experience, PSP's pianoverb can help a lot; but it's some fiddling until you find the appropriate settings.
> I use this as an insert – with only few wet and much more wet signal – before the 3D placement (usually precedence) and the reverbs.
> 
> ...




without pedal, I like the comb between piano and 60' electric piano, I know it's not realistic, but it sounds more inspiring. Reverb it's ok with earphones, but if you use the speakers, the room is going to be your "reverb", your room is added to the vst (wich is not happening when using headphones).


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## Living Fossil (Sep 7, 2020)

Werty said:


> without pedal, I like the comb between piano and 60' electric piano, I know it's not realistic, but it sounds more inspiring. Reverb it's ok with earphones, but if you use the speakers, the room is going to be your "reverb", your room is added to the vst (wich is not happening when using headphones).




Fortunately in my studio, the room is not "my reverb", since it's treated.
However, i was writing about producing music not about playing around for fun.


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## NekujaK (Sep 7, 2020)

If MIDI is what you want, there's this. But I can't figure out where to download the files. I think you need to become a supporter on Patreon:









Fast Orchestral MIDI Runs


As a gift in March to my Patrons, 10 fast orchestral MIDI runs that you can use in any of your orchestral compositions. Thanks for your support! https://youtu.be/SJ5SZgVgh5U Don’t forget to hit that like button if




gh0stwrit3r.com


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## CGR (Sep 7, 2020)

Hendrixon said:


> Soniccuture's The Hammersmith is my fav.
> 
> Its so rich harmonically, full of resonances and with 21 dynamic layers it has a smooth dynamic range.
> It was recorded with top of the line mics, on a Neve console, in a top quality studio (Mark Knofler's), by an engineer that recorded and produced Rush, Supertramp, America, Paul McCartney, Frank Zappa, Jeff Beck to name some.
> ...


I'm a big fan of the Hammersmith Pro. The mic selection, signal path, sampling and scripting is top notch. Playability is excellent, and having proper sustain pedal down samples really does make a difference to the "3D-ness" of the piano sound. The clarity and depth of the bass in that sampled piano is fantastic, and the mid range sounds open and natural, unlike many sampled pianos which really struggle with this region and have a hollow sound an octave either side of middle C. If the treble was a bit more full & resonant I think it would be my equal first choice with the VSL Vienna Imperial. I'm really glad to have both as they suit different types of material.


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## CGR (Sep 7, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Craig is a professional piano player and producer. Each track may ask for a specific sound or character, and each of his customers will have their own requirements, demands, wishes and taste. He can cater to those by offering them different choices. So it’s pretty clear that he would have a decent palette of choices. It’s like a professional recording studio having ten guitar amplifiers around, because some clients prefer a VOX AC30 and others swear by a Twin Reverb. It’s why guitar players own and maintain various models of Strats, etcetera.


What he said!


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## artomatic (Sep 7, 2020)

Depending on the project, here are my go-to:

Ravenscroft 275
Noire
Embertone Walker D
Emotional Piano
Garritan CFX
Spitfire Originals Felt


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## mgnoatto (Sep 7, 2020)

My favs are Keyscape Cinematic (with tweaks), Heavyocity Ascend and Westwood Upright. I like Grandeur too but I don't use it as much


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## damayor (Sep 7, 2020)

Noir always gets loaded first... Actually I get loaded first lol but noir is my first piano choice then cinepiano. They never let me down. Very playable and have a good sound that I have in my head when I think of piano. I tried Hammersmith, pearl, production voices Gold and almost every other piano on market including embertone walker none sounded great to me. I have garritan but haven't installed yet. I always forget I bought it.


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## Thundercat (Sep 7, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Yea I see guitar players do. But when it comes to Piano, I mostly think not many types yes I am addressing the Acoustic pieces but when it comes to the VIs, yea there are many but overall they possess the generic sound that a piano has to offer but yea there’s jazz, classical, rock and roll & pop yes & yea you can tell the difference like there’s from what you hear in a Natasha Bedingfield’s & Argerich’s but often I doubt how long, rather how fair a particular sample can justify the requirements of a particular project. I knew Hans got this old acoustic broken piano? for few cues in Man of Steel & that suited so well but these things, I guess, are more simplified when it comes to the sample libraries. You’re right but there are many free ones as well like few from Spitfire’s Pianobook? And sometimes, don’t you get confused with what you hear, when you have those many?


Mmmm that's like saying all chocolate cake tastes the same. Sure, all pianos have a certain "sound" - they sound like a piano. But there are infinite variations in tone, playability, artistic inspiration, and sheer joy or lack thereof, when playing on them. And as an artist, I like different sounds available. They very much do not all sound the same to me.

I like all flavors.


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## Thundercat (Sep 7, 2020)

My utter fav right now is Simple Sam Samples Steinway. Love!!

Close contenders:

Ravenscroft
Piano in Blue
Walker D
CinePiano
Garritan CFX full


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## doctoremmet (Sep 7, 2020)

Living Fossil said:


> That's the big problem.
> In my experience, PSP's pianoverb can help a lot; but it's some fiddling until you find the appropriate settings.
> I use this as an insert – with only few wet and much more wet signal – before the 3D placement (usually precedence) and the reverbs.
> 
> ...


Awesome post! I like tips like yours - very curious to try this out. Any saturators you prefer? I think I’ll try the Softube knob first.


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## GtrString (Sep 7, 2020)

I like a lot of the pianos, and try to use a variety and audit in context. If Im sketching, I often use the EZ Keys grand on the live setting. It has a good natural sound, responds really well and is very light on the cpu. I also like the Keyscape offerings, and often use those. And sometimes I like the pianos in my Roland Juno DS, tracked through a nice stereo compressor


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## doctoremmet (Sep 8, 2020)

Off-topic - but this IS the current active piano thread. Look what I just noticed. The 1988 Baldwin is coming. @DanMcKinney posted this on the Whole Sounds FB:






“Final beta testing stage for our Connelly Chapel Grand is happening as I write this. And this is the final, FINAL GUI design below. 

For those who are familiar with our Baldwin Parlor Grand, you'll see familiar features, plus some new ones.

The new piano features a "room" sample layer, which is the sound of the chapel at rest. It can be modulated with a simple tilt shift eq.

Also new are three impulse 'verb effects. The "strings" effects are derived from various combinations of open resonating strings - all strings open, top half open, bottom half open, only black keys, and only white keys.

The "air" impulses were derived from various locations inside the chapel itself at different distances from the mics.

Also, you'll see a representation of piano pedals, including sostenuto and una corda (soft) pedals, fully functional if you've got a 3 pedal piano, or they can be triggered by midi CC if you don't.

The "standard" sample layers have 15 velocity levels, while the una corda layer has 6 velocity levels. 

That's the new stuff! Once testing is done and final tweaks are made, it's off the UVI for the final product to be rolled out!”


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## Nate Johnson (Sep 8, 2020)

My go-to is the fastest loading one I’ve got - LPX Factory Steinway II.


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## keepitsimple (Sep 8, 2020)

tomorrowstops said:


> My go-to is the fastest loading one I’ve got - LPX Factory Steinway II.


Makes sense 💪🏻 🎸🕺


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## doctoremmet (Sep 9, 2020)

Ok. This is a great deal.


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## CGR (Sep 9, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Ok. This is a great deal.


Wow! Amazing deal for such high quality sampled pianos.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 9, 2020)

Anyone who doesn't buy these immediately hates pianos.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 9, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Anyone who doesn't buy these immediately hates pianos.


That C3 is ridiculous really. Love it.


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## rojarvi (Sep 9, 2020)

Very tempting indeed and both pianos in the bundle sound excellent according to samples I managed to find. Simeon really got beautiful sounds out of them in his review, for example. But then, he does that for all pianos. 🤔 I’m much better at buying pianos than playing them - let’s see if I use my talent again.


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## Alex C (Sep 9, 2020)

CGR said:


> Wow! Amazing deal for such high quality sampled pianos.



How's the pedal resonance of the Xperimenta Due pianos? Is it as good as Ravenscroft 275? It's impossible to judge from the demos.


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## CGR (Sep 10, 2020)

Alex C said:


> How's the pedal resonance of the Xperimenta Due pianos? Is it as good as Ravenscroft 275? It's impossible to judge from the demos.


Very natural sounding - they are based on sampled resonances, not modelled. Very different sounding pianos to the Ravenscroft 275 - not as tight and 'perfect', but with more warmth and character for me - especially the 2nd piano - a Yamaha C3.


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## Alex C (Sep 10, 2020)

New demo for the 2nd piano. It's very warm sounding for sure.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 10, 2020)

Alex C said:


> New demo for the 2nd piano. It's very warm sounding for sure.



That second piano is in my all-time top 5


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## cqd (Sep 10, 2020)

I dunno..I got the xperimenta due a while ago, and I struggle to like it..I don't know what it is, but I find I have to be pissing around with it for 15 minutes before it's workable..


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## Alex C (Sep 10, 2020)

cqd said:


> I dunno..I got the xperimenta due a while ago, and I struggle to like it..I don't know what it is, but I find I have to be pissing around with it for 15 minutes before it's workable..



What's the problem?


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## alanmcp (Sep 10, 2020)

cqd said:


> I dunno..I got the xperimenta due a while ago, and I struggle to like it..I don't know what it is, but I find I have to be pissing around with it for 15 minutes before it's workable..


Exactly the same here, bought it yesterday at AudiopluginDeals and so glad I didn't purchase when it was on sale a few weeks back. If a piano plugin doesn't make me want to play I lose interest very quickly. Pearl is my goto, then Garritan CFX then Ivorys 2. It got great reviews but I'm not liking it at all. It may be something to do with me still using a Yamaha KX88 as my mother but the action and touch feels superb on any of these three I've mentioned.


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 10, 2020)

I just checked the WWI Upright felt piano on their website but I couldn’t find which piano they used. I know it’s from their Alt Piano. They only mentioned that it’s an old piano just there in this church. They did not mentioned the manufacturing company. Do you have any idea?


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## doctoremmet (Sep 10, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> I just checked the WWI Upright felt piano on their website but I couldn’t find which piano they used. I know it’s from their Alt Piano. They only mentioned that it’s an old piano just there in this church. They did not mentioned the manufacturing company. Do you have any idea?


I’ve wondered about this. @Westwood Rob, care to lift the veil off of this mysterious but cool sounding instrument? There’s only the one picture... and some remarks that it’s old


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## rojarvi (Sep 10, 2020)

cqd said:


> I dunno..I got the xperimenta due a while ago, and I struggle to like it..I don't know what it is, but I find I have to be pissing around with it for 15 minutes before it's workable..



I’m also interested to hear what the problem is. Have already way too many pianos gathering virtual dust because even after spending an hour moving knobs and sliders around I can’t make them sound good to my ear. Or, if I can tune in a great sound I run into technical issues that prevent fully enjoying the sound.

I have no problem spending 15 minutes to find a setting I like and then saving it as my default preset. But if I have to spend 15 minutes every time I load the instrument to make it tolerable it tells me I just don’t like it...


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## decredis (Sep 10, 2020)

Hmm, I've just now bought the Xperimenta Due and immediately encountered a problem... repedalling brings in release sounds much louder than realistic, and switching off the repedalling function doesn't seem to make a difference. Hopefully there's a way round this, because the way I tend to play this would kind of make it unusable for me. Also weird choppy release sound when lifting the sustain pedal after having released notes. No sign of CPU issues in audio performance monitor, so it's not a CPU issue.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 10, 2020)

Well this is an excellent illustration of why we are all doomed to buy All The Pianos, because you just never know whether you'll click with a library till you have it under your fingers.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 10, 2020)

This is one of my "while my son was napping" pieces done with the Due C3 (temporary link):


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## Ben (Sep 10, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> Where's Ben?!?


I'm here! A little bit late, but please excuse me: Currently I'm testing the next big library as well as preparing some other nice things I hope some of you will enjoy 

If you are a student or teacher, you'll get a 40% discount on everything this month. Just log-in here and upload your valid ID. Within a working day you will get approved and you'll see the discount in the price box!


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## decredis (Sep 10, 2020)

decredis said:


> Hmm, I've just now bought the Xperimenta Due and immediately encountered a problem... repedalling brings in release sounds much louder than realistic, and switching off the repedalling function doesn't seem to make a difference. [...] Also weird choppy release sound when lifting the sustain pedal after having released notes.


Oddly (and gladly) these issues don't seem to be present in many of the patches in the patches folders, only in the default instruments in the top level of the folder.

Some lovely sounding instruments, but the way the default ones are playing on my system, for whatever reason, is really weird.


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## Buz (Sep 10, 2020)

decredis said:


> Also weird choppy release sound when lifting the sustain pedal after having released notes. No sign of CPU issues in audio performance monitor, so it's not a CPU issue.


Yeah this one is common. Piano is hard to really do properly. You're supposed to drown it in reverb so you don't notice, which might be the case with the other presets?


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## cqd (Sep 10, 2020)

Can you not turn down the volume on the pedal in the settings somewhere?..I think you can..


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## decredis (Sep 10, 2020)

cqd said:


> Can you not turn down the volume on the pedal in the settings somewhere?..I think you can..


The pedal volume is just the mechanical sound of the pedal. There's repedalling, which can be switched off or the volume reduced... I had tried switching it off, which seemed to make no difference, but actually leaving it on and reducing the volume does seem to improve it! Thank you!!

EDIT: sorry for tangenting the thread. Also, the issue I'm having with some of the patches seems to be specific to live/playback use of the instrument: when mixing down from cubase, the resulting audio does not have the same issues with over-loud and choppy repedalling releases. I'm going to have to figure out what's going on there, because I can't see any CPU spikes. Anyway, I'll stop derailing there.


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## PaulieDC (Sep 10, 2020)

Ben said:


> I'm here! A little bit late, but please excuse me: Currently I'm testing the next big library as well as preparing some other nice things I hope some of you will enjoy
> 
> If you are a student or teacher, you'll get a 40% discount on everything this month. Just log-in here and upload your valid ID. Within a working day you will get approved and you'll see the discount in the price box!



Oh great, "next big library", back to Ramen and PB&J for two months... 

Question about the student discount... I'll be signing up this month for several for-credit courses at BerkleeOnline to obtain a Prof certificate, but the first class doesn't start until January. I'll have an ID card this month but is an active course required? If so that's fine, just wanted to clarify, if you even see this.  Thanks!


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## Ben (Sep 10, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> Question about the student discount... I'll be signing up this month for several for-credit courses at BerkleeOnline to obtain a Prof certificate, but the first class doesn't start until January. I'll have an ID card this month but is an active course required?


As long as it is a valid ID it should work. My advice: try uploading your ID. 



PaulieDC said:


> If so that's fine, just wanted to clarify, if you even see this.


I don't validate the IDs, but my colleagues from sales will check it out and contact you if something needs to be clarified.


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## Michael Antrum (Sep 10, 2020)

Ben said:


> As long as it is a valid ID it should work. My advice: try uploading your ID.
> 
> 
> I don't validate the IDs, but my colleagues from sales will check it out and contact you if something needs to be clarified.



Ben, I've misplaced my student ID, but will this picture of me in my uniform do.....I could really use that 40% student discount....



​


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## Alex C (Sep 11, 2020)

Bought Experimenta Due (via plugin mega deals) and I'm experiencing notes being quickly cut off (piano 2), comparable to staccato. The pianos are also slow to respond, as if there's like 50ms silence before the notes starts. Changing the Feeling knob makes it even slower. I also had to change my keyboard's velocity response from 'normal' to 'soft' otherwise it was unplayable. Maybe it was programmed while using a cheap synth keyboard? My other pianos react very well to the normal vel. repsonse setting. Going to try other patches now.


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## decredis (Sep 11, 2020)

After initial teething problems, which to be honest I'm still not sure where they came from, I'm starting to really like the Due.

I can easily see this becoming my main piano library for cases where the natural tone really matters, because it's a lovely tone throughout its range. (My choices are PianoTeq Pro and the pre-Noire NI pianos; previously I would have used PTQ where possible, and NI reluctantly when I couldn't get the tone I wanted in PTQ.)

I found the notes were too lagged initially... for what it's worth, in my case this was because I had set my buffer size fairly high to cope with the CPU demand of PianoTeq; not so high that it made anything else seem lagged to me, until the Due. But reducing it to 256 samples brought the Due in line (to my ears).

EDIT: just doodled a thing with AmpleSound's upright bass, SonicCouture's Moonkits drums, and Due's first piano, and they worked wonderfully together. Not musically worth sharing, just a doodle, but I'm really pleased with the sound of the piano now.


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## javarnayu (Sep 11, 2020)

I have tried many of the pianos that you mention here and it is very surprising to me that nobody has mentioned what for me is the best piano by far Walnut Steinway from Imperfect Samples:



I am the one that I use the most, in the end after trying to use others I always end up returning to it.


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## ngineer (Sep 11, 2020)

javarnayu said:


> I have tried many of the pianos that you mention here and it is very surprising to me that nobody has mentioned what for me is the best piano by far Walnut Steinway from Imperfect Samples:
> 
> 
> 
> I am the one that I use the most, in the end after trying to use others I always end up returning to it.



That one has been on my list for a bit, so thanks for sharing your positive experience.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 11, 2020)

javarnayu said:


> I have tried many of the pianos that you mention here and it is very surprising to me that nobody has mentioned what for me is the best piano by far Walnut Steinway from Imperfect Samples:
> 
> 
> 
> I am the one that I use the most, in the end after trying to use others I always end up returning to it.



Nice. Never been on my radar but I like what I hear... thanks!


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## doctoremmet (Sep 11, 2020)

javarnayu said:


> I have tried many of the pianos that you mention here and it is very surprising to me that nobody has mentioned what for me is the best piano by far Walnut Steinway from Imperfect Samples:
> 
> 
> 
> I am the one that I use the most, in the end after trying to use others I always end up returning to it.



Can I ask which version is the best value / is considered the most optimal? Their website offers up to four versions, and the price points of the pro and extreme versions are quite high


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## PaulieDC (Sep 11, 2020)

Ben said:


> As long as it is a valid ID it should work. My advice: try uploading your ID.


Will do. I think it was Wayne Gretzky who said you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


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## MarcHedenberg (Sep 11, 2020)

Alicia's Keys and the Giant used to be my go-to's, but ever since I got CSP, I've never looked back.


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## Alex C (Sep 11, 2020)

decredis said:


> After initial teething problems, which to be honest I'm still not sure where they came from, I'm starting to really like the Due.



Same here. I restarted my computer and things appear to be much better now.


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## Living Fossil (Sep 11, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Any saturators you prefer? I think I’ll try the Softube knob first.



Sorry, i guess i've overseen the notification...

With saturators, the thing is that i'm trying out different constellations all the time, so preferences change.
The softube knob has a very nice sparkle, but iirc it has rather a "hifi" sound than something "warm".
Ozone's exciter works great on the piano, since with its multiband-multialgorithm concept you get some great choices (the "warm" setting in the mids works great). I've been using it on pianos since over ten years and still often come back to it.
True Iron works great on piano; but the choices are endless (this week i've used the Omega 458A from Kush in combination with the clariphonic, made me happy...).

However, one thing is important:
Sometimes you got those typical distortions that you may remember from days where we used to record the piano with a cassette recorder [at least i did in the 80ies, but my guess is you did too...].
And those distorted attacks may pass under the radar on speakers, but be quite annoying on headphones.
– It's good practise to check the sound with headphones when applying saturation.

So i really think it's more about dialling in the appropriate settings than about the specific tool.
I try to get as much sound as possible while avoiding the mentioned artefacts.


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## HeliaVox (Sep 11, 2020)

keepitsimple said:


> Makes sense 💪🏻 🎸🕺



All through my music degree I used The Steinway Hall for my stock piano sound, and my professors kept complimenting me on my piano sound. 
I was like, thank Logic, not me!


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## jafhouse (Sep 11, 2020)

Ahhhh! If I had a dollar for every minute spent trying to find the...

My primary go to Piano's for sample quality and playability:

- VSL CFX
- Garritan CFX 

Noire and Ascend for their additional effects engine. I have a buffet of other libraries that I don't use very often. Really just depends on the piece and my mood!


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 11, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I’ve wondered about this. @Westwood Rob, care to lift the veil off of this mysterious but cool sounding instrument? There’s only the one picture... and some remarks that it’s old


Sorry for my spelling. And a million thanks God coz am Human.


----------



## doctoremmet (Sep 12, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Sorry for my spelling. And a million thanks God coz am Human.


?

I actually liked your question and repeated it towards the developer. I did not comment on your spelling...


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## CGR (Sep 12, 2020)

javarnayu said:


> I have tried many of the pianos that you mention here and it is very surprising to me that nobody has mentioned what for me is the best piano by far Walnut Steinway from Imperfect Samples:
> 
> 
> 
> I am the one that I use the most, in the end after trying to use others I always end up returning to it.



It's a sampled piano with a lot of body & resonance - really enjoyable to just call up and get lost in, especially for sparse & slow ballade type music. Not something I'd use for more precise rapid-fire playing though. I have the Complete version (3 mic sets). I find the Kontakt scripting a little buggy, but it's worth the hassle IMHO.

As a side note, about 7 years ago I worked for the Australian Steinway Agents, and our 2nd showroom housed a Walnut Hamburg Steinway D from 1910 - almost identical to the Imperfect Walnut Steinway - which was owned by the landlord of the building we leased. He was a Lawyer who absolutely loved music and pianos in particular, but didn't play an instrument. The sound Imperfect Samples captured with the Walnut Grand is so close to my memory of playing that piano it's uncanny.


----------



## VSriHarsha (Sep 12, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> ?
> 
> I actually liked your question and repeated it towards the developer. I did not comment on your spelling...


Yea I knew that I just thought may be it’s better to apologize from my side but sorry for that & Thanks everyone this forum is filled with really good people. You can totally delete that post if it’s ok. Thanks.


----------



## doctoremmet (Sep 12, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Yea I knew that I just thought may be it’s better to apologize from my side but sorry for that & Thanks everyone this forum is filled with really good people. You can totally delete that post if it’s ok. Thanks.


No need for apologies, like you I would love to know make and model of the Westwood ALT. I’m a sucker for such things. Back stories are cool hehe.


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## markleake (Sep 13, 2020)

The Xperimenta Due Pianos and the Simple Sam Signature Grand are easily my current favs.

If the Due Pianos are on sale for that price, they are an amazing deal, worth way more than that. I posted some examples in Duncan's thread using his Rachmaninoff midi, if you want to compare to other pianos he rendered, including the Hammersmith. The Dues and the Signature Grand are all stunning in their own way. And arguably this piece doesn't show any of them off at their best even.

Here's some of the ones I rendered...


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## Andy Davidson (Sep 13, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Ok. This is a great deal.



Thank you! I looked, I almost resisted, I caved, it's downloading as we type! For £40 it would be silly not too! Thank you! I've not been around so much lately, been out running of all things! Half marathon virtual event run today, so back on the pianos this evening, if I keep awake!!

Thanks again! Another one to play with!


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## doctoremmet (Sep 13, 2020)

Andy Davidson said:


> Thank you! I looked, I almost resisted, I caved, it's downloading as we type! For £40 it would be silly not too! Thank you! I've not been around so much lately, been out running of all things! Half marathon virtual event run today, so back on the pianos this evening, if I keep awake!!
> 
> Thanks again! Another one to play with!


Despite some people apparently experiencing some (start-up?) problems with these two pianos, I cannot recommend them highly enough. For me these are triple A tier stuff...


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## Loïc D (Sep 13, 2020)

In my template, I have :
- Spitfire Felt Piano
- NI Noire
- The jazz piano from Project Sam Swing More

The latter one being incredibly easy to put in a tight mix. It’s not for Chopin, but if you have simple repetitive motives, it works really well.


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## javarnayu (Sep 14, 2020)

CGR said:


> It's a sampled piano with a lot of body & resonance - really enjoyable to just call up and get lost in, especially for sparse & slow ballade type music. Not something I'd use for more precise rapid-fire playing though. I have the Complete version (3 mic sets). I find the Kontakt scripting a little buggy, but it's worth the hassle IMHO.
> 
> As a side note, about 7 years ago I worked for the Australian Steinway Agents, and our 2nd showroom housed a Walnut Hamburg Steinway D from 1910 - almost identical to the Imperfect Walnut Steinway - which was owned by the landlord of the building we leased. He was a Lawyer who absolutely loved music and pianos in particular, but didn't play an instrument. The sound Imperfect Samples captured with the Walnut Grand is so close to my memory of playing that piano it's uncanny.


Totally agree, although it is a matter of having the library optimized, I have it installed on SSD and although I am not a virtuous pianist, it goes as fast as other libraries, but I recognize that there are those with a faster response.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 14, 2020)

javarnayu said:


> Totally agree, although it is a matter of having the library optimized, I have it installed on SSD and although I am not a virtuous pianist, it goes as fast as other libraries, but I recognize that there are those with a faster response.


I guess you’re misquoting me? I repeated a question where someone asked about what actual piano was sampled for the ALT library. So make & model. Just for those who love their trivia... I did not say anything about response, library optimization of whatever... it appears I must have not been very clear, since so many people now seem to not have understood a thing I said... apologies


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## javarnayu (Sep 14, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I guess you’re misquoting me? I repeated a question where someone asked about what actual piano was sampled for the ALT library. So make & model. Just for those who love their trivia... I did not say anything about response, library optimization of whatever... it appears I must have not been very clear, since so many people now seem to not have understood a thing I said... apologies


Forgive me, I quoted you by mistake.
Sorry.
I have already corrected it


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## doctoremmet (Sep 14, 2020)

javarnayu said:


> Forgive me, I quoted you by mistake.
> Sorry.
> I have already corrected it


Np. I was just slightly puzzled hehe


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## Beans (Sep 14, 2020)

I keep seeing reference to the Xperimenta Due set being on sale still (and I could swear it was yesterday, though I was admittedly looking at about five different pianos last night), but today that seems to not be the case. Did I just barely miss it?


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## decredis (Sep 14, 2020)

Beans said:


> I keep seeing reference to the Xperimenta Due set being on sale still (and I could swear it was yesterday, though I was admittedly looking at about five different pianos last night), but today that seems to not be the case. Did I just barely miss it?


Looks like it's still there at APD for another week: https://audioplugin.deals/due-grand-pianos-by-xperimenta-project/


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## Beans (Sep 14, 2020)

decredis said:


> Looks like it's still there at APD for another week: https://audioplugin.deals/due-grand-pianos-by-xperimenta-project/



THAT's where I saw it. Thank you. I became confused among the several (great) threads on these topics.


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## Mark Kouznetsov (Sep 14, 2020)

My favourite: NI The Grandeur (Custom preset)
2nd place: Fracture Sounds - Midnight Grand.
Although, judging by sound, the 2nd one is better. The Grandeur is not perfect.


----------



## Westwood (Sep 14, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I’ve wondered about this. @Westwood Rob, care to lift the veil off of this mysterious but cool sounding instrument? There’s only the one picture... and some remarks that it’s old


It's a Kemble - Made in London and we think made sometime in the 60s according to the owner. It was purchased by his grandfather and been in the family ever since. You can normally age Kemble's to the exact year by their serial number, but no one can find one on the frame or cover anywhere!


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## Westwood (Sep 14, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> I just checked the WWI Upright felt piano on their website but I couldn’t find which piano they used. I know it’s from their Alt Piano. They only mentioned that it’s an old piano just there in this church. They did not mentioned the manufacturing company. Do you have any idea?


As per other reply - A Kemble made in London sometime in the 60s!

The mics on the picture are the Coles 4038s - Detailed on the interface as "C" / "Close".


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## doctoremmet (Sep 15, 2020)

Westwood said:


> It's a Kemble - Made in London and we think made sometime in the 60s according to the owner. It was purchased by his grandfather and been in the family ever since. You can normally age Kemble's to the exact year by their serial number, but no one can find one on the frame or cover anywhere!


Very cool intel. Henceforth I shall refer to ALT Piano as “the Kemble”! ❤


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 15, 2020)

VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial because it makes me feel like a greater human being.
Sampletekk Rain Piano MkII because it makes me feel like a lesser human being.


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 16, 2020)

Westwood said:


> As per other reply - A Kemble made in London sometime in the 60s!
> 
> The mics on the picture are the Coles 4038s - Detailed on the interface as "C" / "Close".


Thanks @Westwood 

I read that Yamaha then bought Kemble. Is that true. Btw that’s a nice instrument there.


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 16, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> No need for apologies, like you I would love to know make and model of the Westwood ALT. I’m a sucker for such things. Back stories are cool hehe.


Thanks. I just came to know about that instrument.


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 16, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Mmmm that's like saying all chocolate cake tastes the same. Sure, all pianos have a certain "sound" - they sound like a piano. But there are infinite variations in tone, playability, artistic inspiration, and sheer joy or lack thereof, when playing on them. And as an artist, I like different sounds available. They very much do not all sound the same to me.
> 
> I like all flavors.


That’s right! Oh btw I love cakes. Yea Chocolate cakes absolutely. I can eat the whole damn cake the morning & eat nothing for few more hours & eat another Chocolate cake then lol!


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## fcangia (Sep 16, 2020)

decredis said:


> Hmm, I've just now bought the Xperimenta Due and immediately encountered a problem... repedalling brings in release sounds much louder than realistic, and switching off the repedalling function doesn't seem to make a difference. Hopefully there's a way round this, because the way I tend to play this would kind of make it unusable for me. Also weird choppy release sound when lifting the sustain pedal after having released notes. No sign of CPU issues in audio performance monitor, so it's not a CPU issue.



Hi! Here's Flavio from XPERIMENTA.

Note for Due users:
If you are using Kontakt 6, I _highly recommend_ to turn off the Knob next to the "Resonance" label. I've just found this little bug which emphasizes the re-pedaling in the newer version of Kontakt, probably due to a different response of the convolution plugin. I've fixed this by turning the knob off by default.

Usually, there are really different feedbacks about piano libraries, because the sound of the piano is such a personal thing. I took months to find the sound I had in mind, and I'm really glad to know that someone loves the tone of Due as other developers are glad to hear positive feedback on their products (i guess). And, please, if you have some feedback write to me, I listen to everyone! Making a VI Piano for me is like building a violin starting from the wood: each instrument is so personal and has such a unique tone.

As a musician, my favorite piano is the main piano of the Yamaha P255 - and Due, but I'm biased


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## Alex C (Sep 16, 2020)

fcangia said:


> Note for everyone:
> If you are using Kontakt 6, I _highly recommend_ to turn off the Knob next to the "Resonance" label. I've just found this little bug which emphasizes the re-pedaling in the newer version of Kontakt, probably due to a different response of the convolution plugin. I've fixed this by turning the knob off by default.



Hi Flavio, turning it 'off' means turning it all the way to the left? I haven't read the manual so I don't really know what this knob does. I do often hear strange errors with the pedal resonance when pedaling.

BTW, I'm going to go against the grain and say that the First Piano is my favorite of the two. I do think it's slower to respond compared to what I'm used to.


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## Stan Stewart (Sep 16, 2020)

I so surprised to discover this thread and -- having discovered it -- to find that SonicCouture Hammersmith Pro has not been mentioned. By _far_ my favorite piano VI. Since playing it, I keep *trying* to like other pianos, but they pale by comparison for me.
Here's my review: https://muz4now.com/2016/review-hammersmith-piano-soniccouture/


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## themixtape (Sep 16, 2020)

I don't know how much it's been mentioned as I'm still digging through the pages but..

*Spectrasonics Keyscape!* The C7 sounds wonderful. The upright is also sincerely dope.

I'm a HUGE fan of *Sampletekk's* quality and work. I own most of their sampled pianos... TBO MKII, 7CG MKII, White Grand MKII, Black Grand MKII, Blue Grand MKII, and their older stuff, the Old Lady MKII (same exact piano as inside the Nord Pianos, "Grand Lady D"), and Emperor MKII (apparently same as Nord's "Grand Imperial").

Highly underrated.. they work great in Kontakt... superbly. Truly amazing.

www.sampletekk.com



Other pianos I love:


*Simple Sam Vintage Upright* (probably my favorite upright of ALL-time). Set the semitone shift to -15 as it's a bit sharp, but wow, what character!

*Piano in 162* (phenomenal... absolutely phenomenal and FREE).

*Chocolate Audio* (the Steinway D, "88" or something)

*Noire* is cool... not a huge fan, though.... haven't spent enough time with it.

NI's *The Grandeur*, once tweaked a little bit, also is AWESOME... really playable, great dynamics. Across the board, awesome. Same with Maverick, Gentleman.

*Una Corda* is TREMENDOUS. Such warmth, mood... character. And the Giant... I've not spent a ton of time with that one, but loved what I initially heard.

Ok, about to check out the rest of the posts!


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## doctoremmet (Sep 16, 2020)

themixtape said:


> I don't know how much it's been mentioned as I'm still digging through the pages but..
> 
> *Spectrasonics Keyscape!* The C7 sounds wonderful. The upright is also sincerely dope.
> 
> ...


Feeling your enthusiasm! I have only very recently become a Sampletekk owner and I love my White Grand and Very Big One


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## Stan Stewart (Sep 16, 2020)

themixtape said:


> I'm a HUGE fan of *Sampletekk's* quality and work. I own most of their sampled pianos... TBO MKII, 7CG MKII, White Grand MKII, Black Grand MKII, Blue Grand MKII, and their older stuff, the Old Lady MKII (same exact piano as inside the Nord Pianos, "Grand Lady D"), and Emperor MKII (apparently same as Nord's "Grand Imperial").
> 
> Highly underrated.. they work great in Kontakt... superbly. Truly amazing.
> 
> www.sampletekk.com



I just recorded an improvisation with Black Grand MKII (with lots of tweaks). It was much more realistic and pleasing to play than I had remembered from previous sessions, so thanks for the reminder!


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## Stan Stewart (Sep 16, 2020)

Alex C said:


> Bought Experimenta Due (via plugin mega deals) and I'm experiencing notes being quickly cut off (piano 2), comparable to staccato. The pianos are also slow to respond, as if there's like 50ms silence before the notes starts. Changing the Feeling knob makes it even slower. I also had to change my keyboard's velocity response from 'normal' to 'soft' otherwise it was unplayable. Maybe it was programmed while using a cheap synth keyboard? My other pianos react very well to the normal vel. repsonse setting. Going to try other patches now.


I found Due to be a bit glitchy, too. I really wanted to like it. The C3 still has possibilities, but the C7 is nowhere to be found in my QuickList.


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## fcangia (Sep 16, 2020)

Stan Stewart said:


> I found Due to be a bit glitchy, too. I really wanted to like it. The C3 still has possibilities, but the C7 is nowhere to be found in my QuickList.





Alex C said:


> Bought Experimenta Due (via plugin mega deals) and I'm experiencing notes being quickly cut off (piano 2), comparable to staccato. The pianos are also slow to respond, as if there's like 50ms silence before the notes starts. Changing the Feeling knob makes it even slower. I also had to change my keyboard's velocity response from 'normal' to 'soft' otherwise it was unplayable. Maybe it was programmed while using a cheap synth keyboard? My other pianos react very well to the normal vel. repsonse setting. Going to try other patches now.



About Stan's request: The Main piano has a lot of samples and maybe can be difficult to manage in a slow computer, even with the self-masking; this is why there's a "Light" and "Ultra Light" patch available. Still, in my Ryzen 5 CPU and i74790, the First Piano at 48 buffer size (the minimum!) reaches a maximum of 20/25% of CPU usage, 15/17% with the Light Patch. At 256 buffer size, First Piano reaches a maximum of 9% CPU with two mic settings on. I can recommend you to switch off overtones, use only 1 microphone position, and set the buffer size at 128 or higher! For live performances, the Light patch would be the best.

*"Feeling" *is a feature that delays intentionally the sound in lower velocities, so you can have a natural response of the keyboard on pianissimo, and it also simulates the delay between the noise of the hammer and the string. I personally love playing with feeling at 20/30%, it's quite a unique control.

If you had a look at the samples, there's a bit of silence before the "start" of the sound, to preserve the noise of the finger on the keyboard, which is added only when Feeling is on. When Feeling is off (by default), the start of the sample is immediate, even more in the update 1.9.
In the image, Due in layer with an impulse. The average delay is 2ms, which is impossible to hear.







The pianos were recorded using the Disklavier system by Yamaha, which is quite affordable in terms of response. I limited by default the maximum velocity on the First Piano because the highest velocities were a bit too sharp. But I can understand that some keyboards may react differently, so you can shape the response with the Velocity Table and the Curve/Min/Max settings.

About the staccato release, there's a "Release" control in the ADSR in the "Sound" menù. Some people prefer it longer, some slower. Depends on the genre! 

If you need more assistance, I think this is not the right place, so I created a thread about XPERIMENTA Due, we can talk there about the piano. Or you can always write to [email protected] 






XPERIMENTA Due tech assistance thread


Here's Flavio from XPERIMENTA Project. If you need assistance with XPERIMENTA Due, you can write here or to our e-mail [email protected] Enjoy the pianos!




vi-control.net


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## SF_Green (Sep 16, 2020)

Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned my favorite: SonicCouture's Hammersmith Pro.
I do like others for special sounds: Spitfire Cinematic Soft Piano, Spitfire Oliver Patrice Weder, NI Una Corda, The Giant. The Arturia Piano V2 is pretty good too, though it often takes a bit of tweaking to sound like I want it. NI The Maverick is pretty good too.


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## mgnoatto (Sep 16, 2020)

themixtape said:


> I don't know how much it's been mentioned as I'm still digging through the pages but..
> 
> *Spectrasonics Keyscape!* The C7 sounds wonderful. The upright is also sincerely dope.



Agreed! I think I was the only one that mentioned it till now


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## Carol rein (Sep 16, 2020)

For me Fazioli Grand by Imperfect Samples!!! So warm and realistic!! And for those days I want to play an actual "on the face" hyperrealistic piano, I go for its rough brother, the Braunschweig Upright.


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## CGR (Sep 16, 2020)

fcangia said:


> . . . When Feeling is off (by default), the start of the sample is immediate, even more in the update 1.9.


Hi Flavio - has the v1.9 update been released, and if so, how do I access it?


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## fcangia (Sep 16, 2020)

CGR said:


> Hi Flavio - has the v1.9 update been released, and if so, how do I access it?



for Due support move let's to this thread! https://vi-control.net/community/threads/xperimenta-due-tech-assistance-thread.98532/#post-4641908


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## Stan Stewart (Sep 16, 2020)

SF_Green said:


> Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned my favorite: SonicCouture's Hammersmith Pro.
> I do like others for special sounds: Spitfire Cinematic Soft Piano, Spitfire Oliver Patrice Weder, NI Una Corda, The Giant. The Arturia Piano V2 is pretty good too, though it often takes a bit of tweaking to sound like I want it. NI The Maverick is pretty good too.


Hammersmith is my favorite as well. 👍🏻


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## NickA (Sep 17, 2020)

For me it depends on style of music. For anything classically-oriented it's Vienna Imperial. For a more ballad-style, probably Alicia's, as I like that Element of Freedom sound. But I've yet to upgrade to Komplete 13 and try Noire.


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## CGR (Sep 17, 2020)

NickA said:


> For me it depends on style of music. For anything classically-oriented it's Vienna Imperial. For a more ballad-style, probably Alicia's, as I like that Element of Freedom sound. But I've yet to upgrade to Komplete 13 and try Noire.


I don't understand the negative comments I've read in various forums about the Alicia's Keys sampled piano. I rate it very highly, and I can only guess that maybe the users which don't get along with it are using a non weighted keyboard, or expect a perfect "air-brushed" sound. To my ears, it's very alive with a warm & rich tone, and I enjoy playing it every time I return to it.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 17, 2020)

So, for those wanting to get UVI Augmented Piano (in my top 5 for sure):


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## Jerry Growl (Sep 17, 2020)

+1 for Xperimenta Due

The best sampled piano I hear out there is imo the Ravel. (Judged by ear, not by play) For some reason Universal Audio has kept it solely for their Luna platform...  (which is Mac only and needs a Thunderbolt Apollo or Arrow interface)


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## Alex C (Sep 17, 2020)

Jerry Growl said:


> +1 for Xperimenta Due
> 
> The best sampled piano I hear out there is imo the Ravel. (Judged by ear, not by play) For some reason Universal Audio has kept it solely for their Luna platform...  (which is Mac only and needs a Thunderbolt Apollo or Arrow interface)



I was impressed with the Ravel too but I'm not going to buy a mac and a new interface.


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## cfodeebiedaddy (Sep 18, 2020)

CGR said:


> I don't understand the negative comments I've read in various forums about the Alicia's Keys sampled piano. I rate it very highly, and I can only guess that maybe the users which don't get along with it are using a non weighted keyboard, or expect a perfect "air-brushed" sound. To my ears, it's very alive with a warm & rich tone, and I enjoy playing it every time I return to it.


I think Alicia's Keys is just a very different library from many others. I didn't care for it at first because it didn't have the immediately impressive "thunderous" sound or concert hall ambience that grabs you with some other packages. The dynamic range also seemed harder to tweak to taste. But it does sound nice, and it's responsiveness is good. It deserves a better reputation that it has IMO.


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## ngineer (Sep 18, 2020)

cfodeebiedaddy said:


> I think Alicia's Keys is just a very different library from many others.
> 
> But it does sound nice, and it's responsiveness is good. It deserves a better reputation that it has IMO.


Agreed. I can take or leave most of the other NI pianos, but I leave Alicia’s Keys in Kontakt because it loads quickly, plays well, and sounds good. It isn’t my “desert island” piano, but it gets plenty of use because it just works.


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## Stan Stewart (Sep 19, 2020)

ngineer said:


> Agreed. I can take or leave most of the other NI pianos, but I leave Alicia’s Keys in Kontakt because it loads quickly, plays well, and sounds good. It isn’t my “desert island” piano, but it gets plenty of use because it just works.


Good point. I also like piano (and other) sounds that “just work”. If I have to spend my creativity time to tweak the sound or make it playable, I won’t keep it at the ready. And so, I agree with you about Alicia’s.


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## FlyingAndi (Sep 19, 2020)

Stan Stewart said:


> Good point. I also like piano (and other) sounds that “just work”. If I have to spend my creativity time to tweak the sound or make it playable, I won’t keep it at the ready. And so, I agree with you about Alicia’s.


Actually, this is how I work with synths. I go through the presets and I'm happy if I find something that works (and I'm even more happy if interesting modulations are assigned to modwheel or aftertouch).
Sometimes I feel bad for not digging deeper into doing sound desing with the synths I have (most of these even have a documentation!).


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## Vstforever (Sep 21, 2020)

Synthogy Ivory One was my first piano library, I bought it 20 years ago I believe. I’ve tried Garritan cfx, Keyscape c7, bechstein, pearl, tonehammer, they all sound great but I still prefer Ivory for its sound, versatility and kind cpu usage.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 22, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> For me, there are a few pianos that I consider essential:
> 
> @DanMcKinney | Whole Sounds’ 1954 Baldwin - very versatile, pretty unique sound, does a lot of things in a good way. I mainly play boogie woogie, New Orleans type stuff and blues. Pentatonic scales everywhere, and lots of syncopation. This piano is very much suited for the style.


So a while ago, I posted the lines above. In the mean time Dan has told me about a new dream he’s pursuing. And I’m with him. It’s a cool story which I will not repeat here in its entirety. Let me just politely point y’all to this Kickstarter.

I’ve backed this. Who’s with me? It can be done pretty riskless, by merely “purchasing” one of the already brilliant piano samples he has done. As a particular afficionado of the Baldwin sound, I cannot recommend this highly enough. Sorry to spam you lot like this. But Whole Sounds is not some evil mega corporation, but a one-man operation and very much these instruments are a labor of love. So I figured my “slightly evil” commercial break won’t be too annoying. (I hope! If it was, my apologies!!)

Cheers! Proceed!


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## jazzbozo (Sep 24, 2020)

This thread made me dust off my Garritan CFX to install on my recent Macbook Pro 6 core (was previously using on an old octacore mac pro 2.8 ghz and had been a few years since I've used that computer for music) and it FLIES. Loads up in no time and the response is freaking amazing. I got lost in playing it, the Abby Road sound adds so much. The piano itself doesn't have as much color as some of the other pianos I have, but close your eyes and you are literally there playing it in that space. It's taken my top position.


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## Scalms (Nov 27, 2020)

Touching on this thread again as the are a number of sales going on. Wonder if anyone can comment on the Xperimenta Due pianos. It has incredible tone, _*but*_ most, if not all, of the demos have a fair amount of noise. Is this built into the recordings (to add character), or is this fully customizable? I have heard a couple recordings that had limited noise, but wasn't sure if there was a lot of 3rd party processing to remove it. thanks in advance!


----------



## andrzejmakal (Nov 27, 2020)

For now (as I got Full Kontakt finally) it's Signature Grand by Simple Sam Samples. 
Walker D by Embertone almost as good.
cheers


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## cqd (Nov 27, 2020)

Scalms said:


> Touching on this thread again as the are a number of sales going on. Wonder if anyone can comment on the Xperimenta Due pianos. It has incredible tone, _*but*_ most, if not all, of the demos have a fair amount of noise. Is this built into the recordings (to add character), or is this fully customizable? I have heard a couple recordings that had limited noise, but wasn't sure if there was a lot of 3rd party processing to remove it. thanks in advance!



I tried, but I am not a fan of the due piano's.. everything is pretty much customizable, the noise can be removed..

I was thinking about bumping this thread earlier.. I've been mainly playing the simple Sam for a while now, but broke out the Light and sound concert grand again last night and remembered why I loved it..

It really is just wonderful..


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## fcangia (Nov 27, 2020)

Scalms said:


> Touching on this thread again as the are a number of sales going on. Wonder if anyone can comment on the Xperimenta Due pianos. It has incredible tone, _*but*_ most, if not all, of the demos have a fair amount of noise. Is this built into the recordings (to add character), or is this fully customizable? I have heard a couple recordings that had limited noise, but wasn't sure if there was a lot of 3rd party processing to remove it. thanks in advance!



Hi, thanks! probably because the noise in some demo was added from the GUI, and in others you are hearing the previous versions of the piano (recently the samples have been de-noised)


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## germancomponist (Nov 27, 2020)

SUPERGRAND Piano Plugin (artvista.net) 

This piano is a "Swiss Army Knive".


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## Scalms (Nov 27, 2020)

fcangia said:


> Hi, thanks! probably because the noise in some demo was added from the GUI, and in others you are hearing the previous versions of the piano (recently the samples have been de-noised)


thanks much Flavio, it's a steal at the current price


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## Scalms (Nov 27, 2020)

cqd said:


> I tried, but I am not a fan of the due piano's.. everything is pretty much customizable, the noise can be removed..
> 
> I was thinking about bumping this thread earlier.. I've been mainly playing the simple Sam for a while now, but broke out the Light and sound concert grand again last night and remembered why I loved it..
> 
> It really is just wonderful..


Hmm, I had the Light and Sound one on my buy-list for awhile but recently removed it, not sure why. What is it you like most about it (number of mics flexibility, tone, dynamics, etc)? From what I can hear and what people have said, is the tone is great


----------



## Thundercat (Nov 27, 2020)

andrzejmakal said:


> For now (as I got Full Kontakt finally) it's Signature Grand by Simple Sam Samples.
> Walker D by Embertone almost as good.
> cheers


Hands down my fav piano ever! SSS!!!!


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 28, 2020)

I have been using the Ravencroft 275 for several years. It is a little bit too perfect and somehow lacks character. I purchased the VSL Synchron Bösendorfer when it came out, and though it was a considerable improvement on the Ravenscroft, I found it to be too bright and, somehow, still lacking character. In the end, I returned it because it was just much too expensive to not be fully happy with it. I eyed the old Vienna Imperial as well, but it too is pretty expensive and fairly old to still be commanding such a price. The Walker 1955 and the Garritan CFX were also in the back of my mind, but somehow it is really hard to get excited by a digital instrument when you have a Kawai KG 800 sitting beside your computer, and so I labored on with my Ravenscroft.

To my surprise, the Walker 1955 popped up in a Black Friday ad, and at $74.50, I couldn't resist. I will report back on my satisfaction once this 200 GB monster finally downloads.


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## Thundercat (Nov 28, 2020)

Jett Hitt said:


> I have been using the Ravencroft 275 for several years. It is a little bit too perfect and somehow lacks character. I purchased the VSL Synchron Bösendorfer when it came out, and though it was a considerable improvement on the Ravenscroft, I found it to be too bright and, somehow, still lacking character. In the end, I returned it because it was just much too expensive to not be fully happy with it. I eyed the old Vienna Imperial as well, but it too is pretty expensive and fairly old to still be commanding such a price. The Walker 1955 and the Garritan CFX were also in the back of my mind, but somehow it is really hard to get excited by a digital instrument when you have a Kawai KG 800 sitting beside your computer, and so I labored on with my Ravenscroft.
> 
> To my surprise, the Walker 1955 popped up in a Black Friday ad, and at $74.50, I couldn't resist. I will report back on my satisfaction once this 200 GB monster finally downloads.


Do check out the cheap $ Simple San Samples Signature Grand. I own many piano libraries way more expensive but it’s my all time fav. Has a fab tone you can get lost in...


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 28, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Do check out the cheap $ Simple San Samples Signature Grand. I own many piano libraries way more expensive but it’s my all time fav. Has a fab tone you can get lost in...


I own SSS, and it is a lovely piano. I find that it works well with Spitfire's SSO, but I do not find that it works well with extreme piano writing in an orchestral context. (It might fare better in the hands of a more adept mockup artist.) The Ravenscroft was much more useful to me in this regard. I am hopeful that the Walker 1955 will fill that void.


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## jazzman7 (Nov 28, 2020)

dylanmixer said:


> My favorites currently are Piano in Blue, Addictive Keys, and Woodchester Piano for the soft felt. Might upgrade to Komplete 13 for the Noire piano (among other things), since everyone seems to love it.


I Love my NOIR, but one problem I have is the D3. The sample at that key is....well the first word that comes to mind is.... Tubby. I know, a subjective word...maybe muffled. The sample Never hits the ring at the highest Vel layer. Feels out of place at all layers. Something's off. Otherwise, NOIR is really beautiful and versatile


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## Stan Stewart (Nov 29, 2020)

Scalms said:


> Touching on this thread again as the are a number of sales going on. Wonder if anyone can comment on the Xperimenta Due pianos. It has incredible tone, _*but*_ most, if not all, of the demos have a fair amount of noise. Is this built into the recordings (to add character), or is this fully customizable? I have heard a couple recordings that had limited noise, but wasn't sure if there was a lot of 3rd party processing to remove it. thanks in advance!


Xperimenta has gone to some effort to remove more of the noise in subsequent updates. Though I really wanted to love this piano set, it continues to be waiting in the wings for me. It has great promise, but nothing to bring it to the top of the list for any of my projects. YMMV.
Personally, I'd wait for the SonicCouture sale that starts Tuesday (December 1). Hammersmith Pro is still my go-to piano libary.


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## Jett Hitt (Dec 1, 2020)

I've had the Walker 1955 for a few days, and I've had some time to play with it and integrate it into my orchestral template. It wasn't instantly gratifying, but thanks to @CGR I was able to quickly hone in on the hammer and room mics and make my way from there. In the end, I came up with settings that I like significantly more than the Ravenscroft 275. 

My only criticism is that the interface is a bit primitive. I was surprised that all of the mics weren't displayed on the interface, and instead, I just had to add additional mics to a Kontakt multi. Otherwise, the only caveat when buying this is that you need 400GB free on a drive to install it. When I realized that I was running out of space during the lengthy install process (not the download process), I was able to note the parts that had already installed and delete those files to make more space on the drive. It is possible, but it was pretty nerve-racking because I was days downloading this beast at 8 Mbps. 

At the end of the day, this was my most-bang-for-your-buck purchase of the year for $74.50 on a Black Friday deal.


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## cloudbuster (Dec 1, 2020)

Never felt the need to move up from Addictive Keys' Studio Grand (and some older pianos) and a collection of felt pianos followed by the channel strip du jour for a bit of EQ and a touch of modelled color here and there.


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## anjwilson (Dec 1, 2020)

Jett Hitt said:


> My only criticism is that the interface is a bit primitive. I was surprised that all of the mics weren't displayed on the interface, and instead, I just had to add additional mics to a Kontakt multi.


I can't remember where I read this, but Embertone explained that they overran Kontakt's limit for samples in a single nki (36 velocity levels for each note, una corda, pedal/no pedal, etc); that's why the mics are split into separate nkis.


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## Marcus Millfield (Dec 1, 2020)

For a sample library, it depends on my mood and/or what type of music I'm playing/making.

Embertone's Walker D or CineSamples Piano in Blue are my go-to for jazz(y) music. The tone and color can be silky smooth, just the way I like it. Although Piano in Blue has some quirks, it sounds beautiful.

VSL Synchron Blüthner goes anywhere where Romantic style classics are involved. Just fits the style like a glove, although I don't use it much as of late.

For felt piano, Fracture Sounds Woodchester. Such a warm tone. I wish they made a normal (unprepared) library of this piano, in the same style of intimate recording. Oh well.

Finally, for practicing, I find most libraries too slow to respond which makes me feel I'm starting samples, not playing an instrument. I hate that "out-of-touch" feeling, which is why I mostly play the onboard sound of my Kawai DP, which has a beautiful Shigeru Kawai EX Grand sample. If ever Kawai would release a VI of one of the Shigeru Kawai grand, I'd be the first customer

For another flavor: Pianoteq. Although it doesn't sound like any sample library, the playability is unmatched and thus, I tend to use the new NY Steinway on Pianoteq 7 for classical pieces. On Pianoteq 6, I mostly used a modified Steingaerber. Version 7 is absolutely a step up soundwise.


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## hessproject (Dec 1, 2020)

I haven't felt the need to go much further than Komplete for pianos so far. I'm mostly using Noire for cinematic stuff, and Alecia's Keys for everything else.


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## Lukas Vokrinek (Dec 10, 2020)

Ravencroft 275 is still really good IMO. Noire is great too. I think we're so spoilt for choice s pretty much just picking straws here :3


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## DovesGoWest (Dec 10, 2020)

My Current List of Pianos:

Spitfire Originals Felt Piano
Spitfire Original Cinematic Soft Piano (Bought recently to replace the Piano Book Air Piano)
4Front True Pianos 
Spitfire LABS Felt Piano
Native Instruments The Gentleman
Piano Book (1911 Bechstein Upright, Kristiansand Concert Steinway, 9000ft, Air Piano)
HALion Raven
HALion Eagle

I tend to use the Spitfire Originals for cinematic\ambient stuff and the 4Front for EDM stuff, for a more classical sound i normally look to the Piano Book libraries.


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## Thundercat (Dec 10, 2020)

Lukas Vokrinek said:


> Ravencroft 275 is still really good IMO. Noire is great too. I think we're so spoilt for choice s pretty much just picking straws here :3


LOVE Ravenscroft! American is nice too!


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## Gamma1734 (Dec 18, 2020)

Does the Hammersmith Pro have continuous pedal support?


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## keepitsimple (Dec 18, 2020)

Fun tip about the Garritan CFX. Change the lid from "open" to "half", you might be pleasantly surprised by how cozy the tone becomes, as opposed to being sometimes too pensive and aggressive. 

If you tend to EQ the Garritan CFX to bring up some body, try this first.


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## cfodeebiedaddy (Dec 18, 2020)

keepitsimple said:


> Fun tip about the Garritan CFX. Change the lid from "open" to "half", you might be pleasantly surprised by how cozy the tone becomes, as opposed to being sometimes too pensive and aggressive.
> 
> If you tend to EQ the Garritan CFX to bring up some body, try this first.


Thanks for the tip - will have to try this! I'm not sure I've ever changed the lid...honestly, the defaults sound so good I usually leave 'as is' unless I'm shortening release times.


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## keepitsimple (Dec 19, 2020)

cfodeebiedaddy said:


> Thanks for the tip - will have to try this! I'm not sure I've ever changed the lid...honestly, the defaults sound so good I usually leave 'as is' unless I'm shortening release times.


It's a feature that i've always overlooked until recently. And i'm sure many do as well. What's good is that the lid function is not just a low pass filter, they sampled the impulse responses of all lid positions.


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## PaulieDC (Dec 19, 2020)

keepitsimple said:


> It's a feature that i've always overlooked until recently. And i'm sure many do as well. What's good is that the lid function is not just a low pass filter, they sampled the impulse responses of all lid positions.


Cool! Didn’t know that, will try that tomorrow. 3am here, just turned off the SL88Grand for the night. 😀


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## EvgenyEmelyanov (Dec 19, 2020)

I used to work with Fazioly by Imperfect Samples before as the main piano instrument. But now I use Woodchester Piano more and more and open it as the first instrument in a template.


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## Mark Kouznetsov (Jan 22, 2021)

C. Bechstein Digital Grand (custom settings), hands down. Every other feels synthy/artificial after a while. And that's after tweaking. I was initially impressed by NI's The Grand and Noire, but that feel of novelty quickly wore off. Bechstein, however, remains beloved to this day.

Also, can highly recommend Woodchester Piano & Midnight Grand, but those are obviously on the soft/felt side. If you need a crisp and sparkling concert grand - Bechstein is the way to go. I've tried and tested it in various compositions and situations and it always comes out on top. No matter how much I try to be critical about it. I mean, it still isn't a real deal, but damn it's good. 

The library itself isn't perfect. It can be quite heavy and you have to tweak it. There were some little annoying bugs as far as I can remember, too. But the sound + the amount of options to customize the sound and the space are absolutely a marvel.


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## sostenuto (Jan 22, 2021)

Mark_Kouznetsov said:


> C. Bechstein Digital Grand (custom settings), hands down. Every other feels synthy/artificial after a while. And that's after tweaking. I was initially impressed by NI's The Grand and Noire, but that feel of novelty quickly wore off. Bechstein, however, remains beloved to this day.
> 
> Also, can highly recommend Woodchester Piano & Midnight Grand, but those are obviously on the soft/felt side. If you need a crisp and sparkling concert grand - Bechstein is the way to go. I've tried and tested it in various compositions and situations and it always comes out on top. No matter how much I try to be critical about it. I mean, it still isn't a real deal, but damn it's good.
> 
> The library itself isn't perfect. It can be quite heavy and you have to tweak it. There were some little annoying bugs as far as I can remember, too. But the sound + the amount of options to customize the sound and the space are absolutely a marvel.


Thomann US has for $254. at present. Concerned about earlier review making strong note re. CPU requirement. 
Woodchester / Midnight are interesting. Current go to is IvoryII - Italian Grand.
Appreciate your comment here !


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## Fleer (Jan 22, 2021)

I can only say this C. Bechstein Digital Grand is quite amazing, even allowing for sound design if you’re so inclined. And there’s a light version. Plus one from Pianoteq. All-in-all pretty unmitigated.


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## CGR (Jan 22, 2021)

A tip for using the C.Bechstein Digital Grand: The .nki's with 'SP' in the name sound more natural on the hammer attacks because they keep the subtle pre-attack sound. From the website:


_New TOP and SIDE instruments with adjusted sample starting points (SP). With these instruments, the starting points of all samples have been shifted in such a way that an improved touch behaviour results during playing. The resulting phase shift also allows tonal alternatives when combining instruments (e.g. with multis)._

The default .nki sounds a little artificial to my ears on the attacks - very good response with minimal lag, but I prefer hearing or sensing the pre-attack and sacrificing a little of the immediate response (or I record with the tighter standard .nki and render to audio with the SP version).


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 20, 2021)

T-LeffoH said:


> I'm kind of surprised not to see The Giant on here.
> 
> Of all the pianos I have from Komplete, besides The Grandeur, I've used that one the most, especially if I'm going for the Thomas Newman sound.


I'm a huge TN fan - The Giant is interesting.

Just might be a winner.






THE GIANT


The software instrument captures the sound of the world's biggest upright piano to deliver an intense, dynamic playing experience.




www.native-instruments.com


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## TomislavEP (Jul 20, 2021)

Although I use it less often than other pianos from Native Instruments, "The Giant" is definitely an undeserving underdog. I like its chameleon-like sound quality that is something in between upright and grand pianos. I find it perfect for ambient works and also as a much deeper replacement to hardware workstation piano sounds used by many composers of the '80s and '90s. Furthermore, its alter ego (the cinematic version) is often overlooked.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 20, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> Soniccuture's The Hammersmith is my fav.
> 
> Its so rich harmonically, full of resonances and with 21 dynamic layers it has a smooth dynamic range.
> It was recorded with top of the line mics, on a Neve console, in a top quality studio (Mark Knofler's), by an engineer that recorded and produced Rush, Supertramp, America, Paul McCartney, Frank Zappa, Jeff Beck to name some.
> ...


interesting that Hammersmith Free is no longer available.

So, I checked my Soniccuture account page, sure enough Hammersmith Free is in there waiting for me to download and auth.

Impressive for free:
The Hammersmith Model D Grand has featured in countless productions & won many fans since its release.

Now you can experience the same performance thrill with _*Hammersmith Free*_.


Free Download
4.8 GB Library
21 Velocity layers
Schoeps MK4 Mic Pair
Kontakt Player 6 NKS Compatible

and with that in my account, the upgrade to Pro is $155.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 20, 2021)

TomislavEP said:


> Although I use it less often than other pianos from Native Instruments, "The Giant" is definitely an undeserving underdog. I like its chameleon-like sound quality that is something in between upright and grand pianos. I find it perfect for ambient works and also as a much deeper replacement to hardware workstation piano sounds used by many composers of the '80s and '90s. Furthermore, its alter ego (the cinematic version) is often overlooked.


the Cinematic really caught me by surprise - superb!


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 20, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> interesting that Hammersmith Free is no longer available.
> 
> So, I checked my Soniccuture account page, sure enough Hammersmith Free is in there waiting for me to download and auth.
> 
> ...


That’s few of the Best Pianos. But you gotta check out their website for the serial.


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## KEM (Jul 20, 2021)

Malmsjö


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 20, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> That’s few of the Best Pianos. But you gotta check out their website for the serial.



installed and running.


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## VSriHarsha (Jul 20, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> installed and running.


That’s good to know.


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## _Adam_ (Jul 21, 2021)

Piano in Blue is the one I go to the most.


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## TomislavEP (Jul 21, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> interesting that Hammersmith Free is no longer available.
> 
> So, I checked my Soniccuture account page, sure enough Hammersmith Free is in there waiting for me to download and auth.


I grabbed this one when it was first released but didn't like it very much compared to the other Steinway libraries that I have (a bit bright and metallic-sounding for my taste). However, it's a truly rare case of a free piano library with a high level of detail so I'll give it a second glance.



KEM said:


> Malmsjö


The other day, I've pondered quite a bit whether to finally purchase this one as it was on a discount. In the end, I've passed it again. Mostly due to all the notoriety and hype surrounding this library as well its technical limitations, at least for today's standards. On the other hand, I understand and appreciate its value, emphasized by the scarcity of the original instrument. However, considering the amount of fine characterful releases on Pianobook these days, I feel that I can do without this one in my substantial virtual piano collection.


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## mickeyl (Jul 21, 2021)

(Meta: I'm afraid given enough time, almost every available product will receive a mention in such a thread, so I wonder how about the information depth for product-questions of that kind.)

That said, depending on the style of music I'm after, I usually go with the Emotional Piano or HZP.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Jul 21, 2021)

Having a sideaffair with ALT Piano now, cute thing it is.


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## OHjorth (Oct 25, 2021)

Pianolando said:


> It definitely makes it harder for me too feel the emotions while recording, but the result is just as emotional as I want and what I feel when playing is a low priority for me. My first album only exists in physical media but three of the tracks are here: https://soundcloud.com/andreas-landegren
> That is with Ivory 2 and 13 live strings (overdubbed one time). That is back when I didn't have either the tools or knowledge I have now when it somes to mixing so hopefully it will be better this time around, even if I'm proud of the last album aswell.
> 
> This are two previews for my new album, this time it's the Walker piano with the room mics:



Late on the ball here but lovely piece!

OT: You never know where you might stumble upon your old ping-pong coach from the hometown :D


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## tritonely (Oct 25, 2021)

Not very surprising:
Just to play/study: Pianoteq 7 Stage (NY Steinway D)
For recording:
- natural: VI-Labs Modern U
- felt: Olafur Arnalds Composer Toolkit (love to combine it with the Crumar from SC The Attic 2) 

I hope Soundpaints grand and upright can shift those favourites this week! Hopefully it can combine the best playability and great sound aspects.


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 25, 2021)

As my music and I evolve, so do the piano libraries I own, use and love.

I hardly play Pianoteq anymore, purely because of the sample libraries I own now and like for their sound. Pianoteq is still the best choice for playability in my opinion, but the ears want what sounds best, and at the moment those are:

Still Cinesamples Piano in Blue for those moody nights of jazz.

Teletone Audio Golden Age Grand certainly stole my heart recently. Although it has some drawbacks, it sounds so classy.

AcousticSamples Kawai-Ex Pro. Certainly not the best piano lib, but it still pulls me in from time to time. I just like playing it for some repertoire.

For felt: still the good old Fracture Sounds Woodchester. I'm a bit sick of felt piano's at the moment, but when I need one, this is it.

Newcomer: UVI Austrian Grand. Still taking this one for a testdrive. Rich low end (Bösendorfer off course) for sure and with a little tweaking, nice dynamic range.

Will be nice to see how this list has faired around the end of next year


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## antret (Oct 25, 2021)

Hi! I don’t have 1 particular go to piano, but I have a ‘tier 1’ group. :

Imperfect Samples Fazioli
Sampltekk white grand 2 MK2
Xperimenta Due Pianos

I just picked up the Loft Piano from Echo Sound Works. It’s seems to be a nice upright with just enough character. Too early to say if it will make ‘tier 1’, but I enjoy it so far.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 26, 2021)

antret said:


> Hi! I don’t have 1 particular go to piano, but I have a ‘tier 1’ group. :
> 
> Imperfect Samples Fazioli
> Sampltekk white grand 2 MK2
> ...


Cool tier 1!


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## easyrider (Oct 26, 2021)

My view is this:

If these were real pianos taking up
Space in a room would you have so many ?

It’s like guitars. I have 6 electrics, 4 acoustics and a Fender P bass. Because they are in the room I use them. They all cover the foundation sounds. And if I couldn’t I would seriously wonder why lol

Imagine walking into a space with 30 pianos in ?

When you think about it that would be insane.

I get a vibe from this thread that people are just chasing a piano sound rather than just getting on with it.

You could take The Granduer and make it into anything you want with reverb , delay , distortion and compression

Spitfire Felt and an upright would cover 99% of things IMO.


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## CGR (Oct 26, 2021)

easyrider said:


> My view is this:
> 
> If these were real pianos taking up
> Space in a room would you have so many ?
> ...


I hear what you're saying, but comparing being content with a range of 11 physical guitars - and a few amps and pedals I'm assuming? - to what appears to some a crazy pursuit of a piano sound by purchasing sampled pianos is not a balanced comparison.

Apart from the advances of sampling & scripting technology over the years, the vast majority of sampled pianos will lack in a few or several aspects, and unlike being able to walk into a physical store and try before you buy, a certain leap of faith is required when purchasing (VSL and Pianoteq are an exception here with their trial periods).

Even after careful listening to demos & walkthroughs and reading user feedback & opinions, it's not until I have a sampled piano under my fingers, on my keyboard playing my music that the issues present themselves, and sometimes leads to searching for a better option.

For me, finding virtual instruments which gel with what I'm trying to achieve, inspire me when I use them and have minimal technical issues to interrupt my creative flow involves a process of trial and error to a degree, which can be frustrating and expensive. Then again, it keeps me interested and curious.


----------



## easyrider (Oct 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> I hear what you're saying, but comparing being content with a range of 11 physical guitars - and a few amps and pedals I'm assuming? - to what appears to some a crazy pursuit of a piano sound by purchasing sampled pianos is not a balanced comparison.


As a guitar player my search for more guitars ended when I realised it was a futile pursuit. I just put down £5000 on a Martin and was done with it. The 3 other acoustics don’t compare. They are played on camping trips. One is tuned to Nashville tuning for recording etc…

The electrics cover the bases, Fender Strat, Fender Tele, Gibson SG, Gibson Les Paul Fender Music Master and Fender P Bass.With amps, pedals and millions of Plugins delays reverbs everything is covered.

If I was a real pianist and it was my main instrument I’d just go looking for a real piano one that I connected with. The Virtual world of Anything you want anytime you want it makes people flippant and I experience this myself.I have tons of VIs loads of pianos I don’t use. Think I’ve loaded Noire once…I’m sure I could cover 90% of my needs if I only had Noire. But because SF Felt was only 29 I bought it…and because cinesamples Abby Road pianos was 49 I bought that….and so on…my point is where does it end….I just keeping buying pianos over and over again….? This is depressing imo.



CGR said:


> Apart from the advances of sampling & scripting technology over the years, the vast majority of sampled pianos will lack in a few or several aspects, and unlike being able to walk into a physical store and try before you buy, a certain leap of faith is required when purchasing (VSL and Pianoteq are an exception here with their trial periods).
> 
> Even after careful listening to demos & walkthroughs and reading user feedback & opinions, it's not until I have a sampled piano under my fingers, on my keyboard playing my music that the issues present themselves, and sometimes leads to searching for a better option.
> 
> For me, finding virtual instruments which gel with what I'm trying to achieve, inspire me when I use them and have minimal technical issues to interrupt my creative flow involves a process of trial and error to a degree, which can be frustrating and expensive. Then again, it keeps me interested and curious.


I understand where you are coming from but Piano in Blue is old….and yet it is some peoples first choice….so the scripting thing can be subjective.

if I was serious about piano I would save and buy real one, enjoy recording it and processing it to get a sound that no one else had.

In fact if I won the lottery I’d probably buy a https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/CFX-Concert-Grand-Piano/pidPCFXPE

And never load a Virtual Piano ever again. 😂


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## StefVR (Oct 26, 2021)

Pianoteq is by far my favorite. Its the one I can play Closest to my real Yamah CX 6 grand piano. Most sample libraries sound like they have
a dynamic autotune build in… They dont have enough dynamic layers and round robins.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 26, 2021)

Craig has a couple of real ones. Sounds to me you’re projecting some of your own ‘depression’ regarding past purchasing decisions pertaining to VIs 

Having multiple sampled pianos can just be very useful and does not necessarily mean it is an endless journey or pursuit for no reason.


----------



## easyrider (Oct 26, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Craig has a couple of real ones. Sounds to me you’re projecting some of your own ‘depression’ regarding past purchasing decisions pertaining to VIs
> 
> Having multiple sampled pianos can just be very useful and does not necessarily mean it is an endless journey or pursuit for no reason.


Lol, The addict chasing the ultimate high…

In the words of John Lennon: “ life is what happens to You while you’re busy chasing piano vi’s “ 😂

In my opinion when you reach over 30 piano libraries the paradox of choice must read its ugly head surely?

How many Felt Pianos do we need?

in fact in a blind test..I would argue many wouldn’t be able to identify the VI with any accuracy if they couldn't see what was loaded.


----------



## doctoremmet (Oct 26, 2021)

easyrider said:


> in fact in a blind test..I would argue many wouldn’t be able to name the VI with any accuracy if they could see what was loaded.


Oh, I’m the first one to agree there haha. The very same applies to synths and many other instruments. Including acoustic guitars 

Just saying that your “guitar essentials collection” does include at least a couple of models. The same applies to synths, pianos and electromechanical pianos too imho. It is useful to have a couple of various models. And since Craig is a professional piano producer who has to cater to a lot of people’s various tastes and preferences, to him VIs are also “mere” tools. In his case I’d likely approach them with that in mind. Every time something new hits the market, it may imply saving time, a better playability, etc.

Of course there are also people who are just hoarders. Pssst, wanna see my saxophone samples? Lol.


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## CGR (Oct 26, 2021)

easyrider said:


> if I was serious about piano I would save and buy real one, enjoy recording it and processing it to get a sound that no one else had.


And down the rabbit hole you could go with mics, pre-amps, a suitable recording space etc.

I own an acoustic upright (in my home studio) which I use for rehearsing with a singer/guitarist and for teaching once a week, and a small grand (in my home) which I use for playing/messing around, mainly on weekends. I very rarely record with them, due to setup time and having the option to work efficiently in a DAW with a range of sampled pianos, with all the editing options available.


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## easyrider (Oct 26, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Oh, I’m the first one to agree there haha. The very same applies to synths and many other instruments.


I got Omnisphere, UHE collection , then Dune 3. I then stopped. I have no urge to get any more. 

I did the same with pianos and bought Keyscape. The Depth of the sound of some of the pianos destroys anything I already have. I really don’t need anything else.


doctoremmet said:


> Just saying that your “guitar essentials collection” does include at least a couple of models. The same applies to synths, pianos and electromechanical pianos too imho. It is useful to have a couple of various models. And since Craig is a professional piano producer who has to cater to a lot of people’s various tastes and preferences, to him VIs are also “mere” tools. In his case I’d likely approach them with that in mind. Every time something new hits the market, it may imply saving time, a better playability, etc.


I agree, I see no problem with a couple of Felt pianos…..but things start getting daft and obsessive when you have 20 felt pianos….lol


doctoremmet said:


> Of course there are also people who are just hoarders. Pssst, wanna see my saxophone samples? Lol.


If you show me yours…I’ll show you my ridiculous compressor collection…in fact I’m ashamed of it…😱


----------



## doctoremmet (Oct 26, 2021)

At least compressing stuff is fun…


----------



## CGR (Oct 26, 2021)

I envy the flexibility guitarist have to alter their sound, often at low cost. New strings, alternate tunings, tone shaping with pickups, pedals, amps etc. An acoustic piano is what it is, and any modifications (or even to tune it!) require a skilled piano tech. And taking a piano on a camping trip just ain't gonna happen!


----------



## Fleer (Oct 26, 2021)

The only thing we can’t collect are sets of ears. We’re stuck with the pair we got. And the peculiarities that come with it.


----------



## easyrider (Oct 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> And down the rabbit hole you could go with mics, pre-amps, a suitable recording space etc.
> 
> I own an acoustic upright (in my home studio) which I use for rehearsing with a singer/guitarist and for teaching once a week, and a small grand (in my home) which I use for playing/messing around, mainly on weekends. I very rarely record with them, due to setup time and having the option to work efficiently in a DAW with a range of sampled pianos, with all the editing options available.


See that’s the key….you always have it ready to record with a signal chain that satisfies.

I just finally finished my permanent Drumkit mic setup.Had to dig 25m underground outside under grass to lay 6 cat6 cables to get 24 channels of audio permanently wired into my Interface so I can record drums instantly….before this I had to take a laptop into the live room plug in the mic pres into ADAT of the second interface load a session in studio one record the drums….upload the session . Go to main computer in the house download the session , load it then play it. If I wanted to re-record it was a pure PITA so I stopped doing it and just used Eazy Drummer instead.

Christian Henson has his piano permanently miked up 24/7

I now live the dream, walk into the live room and record the drums over to the house on my main PC in seconds. No faff, no setup time it’s a revelation ! 🤓


----------



## Fleer (Oct 26, 2021)

I guess there’s truth in both approaches. Having an “ideal” set up on one hand and continuing a never-ending search for inspiring instruments on the other.


----------



## easyrider (Oct 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> I envy the flexibility guitarist have to alter their sound, often at low cost. New strings, alternate tunings, tone shaping with pickups, pedals, amps etc. An acoustic piano is what it is, and any modifications (or even to tune it!) require a skilled piano tech. And taking a piano on a camping trip just ain't gonna happen!


I could have your piano sounding how I wanted it in minutes with array of plugins and effects and compressors I have. There is nothing stopping you putting your piano through guitar pedals etc…

You have the same felxibilty as a guitar player…Just ask @christianhenson hes earned hundreds of thousands of pounds putting pianos through just that !


----------



## doctoremmet (Oct 26, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Just ask @christianhenson hes earned hundreds of thousands of pounds putting pianos through just that !


By selling dozens and dozens of them to us. Wait…


----------



## sostenuto (Oct 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> I envy the flexibility guitarist have to alter their sound, often at low cost. New strings, alternate tunings, tone shaping with pickups, pedals, amps etc. An acoustic piano is what it is, and any modifications (or even to tune it!) require a skilled piano tech. And taking a piano on a camping trip just ain't gonna happen!


Apologies for fading recall, but do you have relative impressions for Keyscape ? Your past advices, comments have been solid for several recent piano VI additions. 
With no hardware synths here, and pushing aside ~ 1,200 to 1,400 Keyscape Creative Patches, do Keyscape 'pianos' bring notable additions, to your other preferred piano /keyboard VI(s) ?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 26, 2021)

I enjoy trying the latest amp sims or piano Vis.

I like supporting developers who are passionate about their craft.

Could I blind A/B identify amp sims or piano Vis?

No.

Do I discover something about my playing with each one?

Yes.

My day job is mechanical design.

I enjoy exploring the latest 3D CAD innovations as well.

Do I use them all on a daily basis?

No

Do I discover a new and unique 3D modeling technique with each of them?

Absolutely!

Each of us are on our own journeys and have workflows that suit our needs.


----------



## OHjorth (Oct 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> I envy the flexibility guitarist have to alter their sound, often at low cost. New strings, alternate tunings, tone shaping with pickups, pedals, amps etc. An acoustic piano is what it is, and any modifications (or even to tune it!) require a skilled piano tech. And taking a piano on a camping trip just ain't gonna happen!


I played Yamaha CP80 in a two-man rock band with my brother. The day after every gig, when we carried it to our tiny car, with mandatory severe hangover, we sang a mantra: "Recorder, recorder, I should have played the recorder"


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Oct 26, 2021)

OHjorth said:


> I played Yamaha CP80 in a two-man rock band with my brother. The day after every gig, when we carried it to our tiny car, with mandatory severe hangover, we sang a mantra: "Recorder, recorder, I should have played the recorder"



And here I was thinking I had it tough with my 70LBS Kawai... I'll stop moaning now.


----------



## OHjorth (Oct 26, 2021)

Marcus Millfield said:


> And here I was thinking I had it tough with my 70LBS Kawai... I'll stop moaning now.


Yamaha could at least have spent some design funds on fluffy handles. 

On topic I'm looking for a good "Rachmaninov"-piano and something to place in a shimmer eg black hole


----------



## easyrider (Oct 26, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> By selling dozens and dozens of them to us. Wait…


We all know Spitfire Libraries are like crack….🤣


----------



## doctoremmet (Oct 26, 2021)

easyrider said:


> We all know Spitfire Libraries are like crack….🤣


LABS are like the meth labs, with their lab lords giving away a little crack rocks. Gateway drugs I tell you…


----------



## easyrider (Oct 26, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> LABS are like the meth labs, with their lab lords giving away a little crack rocks. Gateway drugs I tell you…


Absolutely! Soft drugs like labs you can get freely on the market turns into SSO down the line….then you need the extra mics. Then the Chamber then the AR1 and all the different hits you get with that….then you need all the originals cause they are only 29 so it won’t harm….then the Ton then the freebie BF offer that hooks you into spending even more…God Damn it! I need more SF libraries shut up I’m fine it’s not an addiction….I’m in control I can stop buying them when I want…..it’s easy….I’m ok…I’m on this….I’m fully aware of what I’m doing….I’m not as bad as others , I still have hard drive space free…just one more little Spitfire hit….it would be mad not to get HZ Strings at 50% off wouldn‘t it….? I want want HZ percussion and piano to complete my collection….I’m in control….my last hit will be the ton this BF I promise….I’ll never use again….I’ll get to know what I already have an explore them…..I promise…..please believe me…I’ve got this….😝


----------



## sostenuto (Oct 26, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Absolutely! Soft drugs like labs you can get freely on the market turns into SSO down the line….then you need the extra mics. Then the Chamber then the AR1 and all the different hits you get with that….then you need all the originals cause they are only 29 so it won’t harm….then the Ton then the freebie BF offer that hooks you into spending even more…God Damn it! I need more SF libraries shut up I’m fine it’s not an addiction….I’m in control I can stop buying them when I want…..it’s easy….I’m ok…I’m on this….I’m fully aware of what I’m doing….I’m not as bad as others , I still have hard drive space free…just one more little Spitfire hit….it would be mad not to get HZ Strings at 50% off wouldn‘t it….? I want want HZ percussion and piano to complete my collection….I’m in control….my last hit will be the ton this BF I promise….I’ll never use again….I’ll get to know what I already have an explore them…..I promise…..please believe me…I’ve got this….😝


😴 _ Nuther Labs plz _ 😪 _ 💤


----------



## Thundercat (Oct 26, 2021)

easyrider said:


> As a guitar player my search for more guitars ended when I realised it was a futile pursuit. I just put down £5000 on a Martin and was done with it. The 3 other acoustics don’t compare. They are played on camping trips. One is tuned to Nashville tuning for recording etc…
> 
> The electrics cover the bases, Fender Strat, Fender Tele, Gibson SG, Gibson Les Paul Fender Music Master and Fender P Bass.With amps, pedals and millions of Plugins delays reverbs everything is covered.
> 
> ...


Yeah. How many spices does a chef have? Special kinds of salts? I can think of Rosemary Salt, Garlic Salt, Lemon Salt, Himalayan Salt, Real Salt, Celtic Sea Salt, Crystal Salt...and I'm not a chef. There is no one "holy grail" of salt that will satisfy.

And how expensive would it be to just lay out $100K to buy that amazing Bozendorfer and "be done with it" as you say? You can buy an awesome guitar for $5K but not a piano. And to date, there is no "holy grail" VST piano that I'm aware of, only favorites (One of mine is Simple Sam Samples).

And as pointed out, each instrument fails in some ways but inspires in others. We are not talking about spending a huge amount for these piano libraries. Why not get a collection and use what inspires when it does?

I get the utilitarian approach and there's merit to it. But some artists want to have 47 different shades of (Piano in) Blue to paint with.


----------



## easyrider (Oct 26, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> Yeah. How many spices does a chef have? Special kinds of salts? I can think of Rosemary Salt, Garlic Salt, Lemon Salt, Himalayan Salt, Real Salt, Celtic Sea Salt, Crystal Salt...and I'm not a chef. There is no one "holy grail" of salt that will satisfy.
> 
> And how expensive would it be to just lay out $100K to buy that amazing Bozendorfer and "be done with it" as you say? You can buy an awesome guitar for $5K but not a piano. And to date, there is no "holy grail" VST piano that I'm aware of, only favorites (One of mine is Simple Sam Samples).
> 
> ...


Well that’s me told….

I’ll get my coat….😂


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Oct 26, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> ...use what inspires...
> 
> I get the utilitarian approach and there's merit to it. But some artists want to have 47 different shades of (Piano in) Blue to paint with.



👏🏻

This combination should end this discussion. Go for the approach that inspires you.

Regards,

The owner of:
1 trumpet
1 flügelhorn
1 digital piano
2 synthesizers
2 drummachines
A dozen harpsichord and organ libraries
A gazillion electric and acoustic piano libraries
A lot of inspiration


----------



## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 26, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Well that’s me told….
> 
> I’ll get my coat….😂


I'm right behind ya - I sold my Suhr and kept my Squier.

Hold the door please.


----------



## Marcus Millfield (Oct 26, 2021)

Ahw guys, can't we just get along? Here, have a beer/coffee/chai latte with dubble fudge cream and hot chocolate sauce on the side from me!


----------



## Thundercat (Oct 26, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Well that’s me told….
> 
> I’ll get my coat….😂


Sorry if I came off too strong...I appreciate your posts and perspective!


----------



## easyrider (Oct 26, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> Sorry if I came off too strong...I appreciate your posts and perspective!


Everyone is on their own journey….no worries!


----------



## SupremeFist (Oct 26, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> Yeah. How many spices does a chef have? Special kinds of salts? I can think of Rosemary Salt, Garlic Salt, Lemon Salt, Himalayan Salt, Real Salt, Celtic Sea Salt, Crystal Salt...and I'm not a chef. There is no one "holy grail" of salt that will satisfy.
> 
> And how expensive would it be to just lay out $100K to buy that amazing Bozendorfer and "be done with it" as you say? You can buy an awesome guitar for $5K but not a piano. And to date, there is no "holy grail" VST piano that I'm aware of, only favorites (One of mine is Simple Sam Samples).
> 
> ...


Absolutely. I have a similar set of guitars to @easyrider but a good piano is vastly more expensive, and requires a lot of space, and is really fiddly to mic well (especially in a domestic setting). Having a collection of top-tier piano VIs, on the other hand, enables me to concentrate on writing and releasing my music.


----------



## chopin4525 (Oct 26, 2021)

OHjorth said:


> I played Yamaha CP80 in a two-man rock band with my brother. The day after every gig, when we carried it to our tiny car, with mandatory severe hangover, we sang a mantra: "Recorder, recorder, I should have played the recorder"


Recorder players don't like this post.


----------



## timbit2006 (Oct 26, 2021)

Sampletekk TVBO's beautiful sound inspired me to actually learn how to play the piano instead of just playing dang tubas with it.


----------



## CGR (Oct 26, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Apologies for fading recall, but do you have relative impressions for Keyscape ? Your past advices, comments have been solid for several recent piano VI additions.
> With no hardware synths here, and pushing aside ~ 1,200 to 1,400 Keyscape Creative Patches, do Keyscape 'pianos' bring notable additions, to your other preferred piano /keyboard VI(s) ?


I don't own Keyscape, and haven't looked into its pianos. A friend of mine who runs a pro studio is a fan of it, particularly the custom Yamaha C7.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Oct 26, 2021)

Thundercat said:


> And how expensive would it be to just lay out $100K to buy that amazing Bozendorfer and "be done with it" as you say?


LOL exactly! I have a baby grand in my living room, but it would not even fit down the stairs just to get it into the studio. Plus, I already have a guitar/bass collection, six drumsets, 40+ cymbals, and ethnic instruments.


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 26, 2021)

chopin4525 said:


> Recorder players don't like this post.



I see you and raise you a contratuba


----------



## sostenuto (Oct 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> I don't own Keyscape, and haven't looked into its pianos. A friend of mine who runs a pro studio is a fan of it, particularly the custom Yamaha C7.


Thank-you Craig ! More checking here, and much more clear now. C7 and Wing Upright _ many 'presets'. 
Helps a great deal to know where Keyscape truly fits now. Will refocus and rest up for BlkFri onslaught.

Regards
Thom B


----------



## stevenson-again (Oct 26, 2021)

What an awesome thread. I've just picked up "Loft Piano" thinking it might be a nice variation on my go to piano which is one I sampled myself. I gave it away free here some time ago "Parlour Piano". For the kinds of things I am doing at the moment it's just...well maybe not unbeatable, but currently unbeaten.

The other piano I use most often is Emotional Piano from SoundIron. I did a piece some time ago in which I used 6 different pianos at the same time....Ivory, Black, Emotional Piano, Fluffy and 1 extra of Ivory and Emotional in different configurations. Yeah. Interesting if a little pointless.

So you can add "Loft Piano" to the list, and "Parlour Piano" which is not currently available. Though....if I was asked nicely....maybe...


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## easyrider (Oct 26, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Absolutely. I have a similar set of guitars to @easyrider but a good piano is vastly more expensive, and requires a lot of space, and is really fiddly to mic well (especially in a domestic setting). Having a collection of top-tier piano VIs, on the other hand, enables me to concentrate on writing and releasing my music.


Wimp….😂😝


----------



## Kery Michael (Oct 27, 2021)

While listening to the Embertone Walker D demos, I’m hearing an almost sitar like twang to the strings on Schubert Impromptu no. 3. Other than that annoying twang, I think it sounds great! Very full and rich, without sounding dull.

Is that just me, or can anyone else hear that? Maybe it’s because this is a close mic demo? But even still, once I noticed it I couldn’t un-notice it. 

Can find the demo track here:





Walker 1955 Concert D







www.embertone.com


----------



## chopin4525 (Oct 27, 2021)

Kery Michael said:


> While listening to the Embertone Walker D demos, I’m hearing an almost sitar like twang to the strings on Schubert Impromptu no. 3. Other than that annoying twang, I think it sounds great! Very full and rich, without sounding dull.
> 
> Is that just me, or can anyone else hear that? Maybe it’s because this is a close mic demo? But even still, once I noticed it I couldn’t un-notice it.
> 
> ...


Sympathetic Resonance. They probably emphasized it because it's a Close perspective.


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## SupremeFist (Oct 27, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Wimp….😂😝


I have two Les Pauls and you only have one, so who's the wimp now?


----------



## easyrider (Oct 27, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I have two Les Pauls and you only have one, so who's the wimp now?


😝


----------



## Leon Portelance (Oct 27, 2021)

Wavefactory Mercury


----------



## Leon Portelance (Oct 27, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I have two Les Pauls and you only have one, so who's the wimp now?


I only have 1 Les Paul, but it is a 1955.





Me in 1970.


----------



## SupremeFist (Oct 28, 2021)

Leon Portelance said:


> I only have 1 Les Paul, but it is a 1955.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, you are officially the coolest dude on the forum.


----------



## Leon Portelance (Oct 28, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Ok, you are officially the coolest dude on the forum.


Unfortunately I had a severe accident in 2013 and can no longer play guitar.


----------



## Double Helix (Oct 28, 2021)

Leon Portelance said:


> I only have 1 Les Paul, but it is a 1955.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's that amp behind you? Looks like a double-Dual Showman (no, not the little one on the right)


----------



## Leon Portelance (Oct 28, 2021)

Double Helix said:


> What's that amp behind you? Looks like a double-Dual Showman (no, not the little one on the right)


I think it’s just a Bandmaster.


----------



## KMA (Nov 1, 2021)

There are so many incredible libraries out there these days. So when you’re auditioning piano libraries (if auditioning is even an option), I suggest trying them on as many different controllers as you can manage.

I’d used Ivory for a decade, and I gradually convinced myself that it was old tech that had to go. I've struggled for years to get realistic velocities into the computer, whether it was curves on my previous controllers, velocity processing in Logic, or velocity processing in the libraries themselves - but it was heavy lifting to get realistic performances. 

Well, I picked up a new keyboard recently (Fantom-8), and it’s brought Ivory back into contention! What a huge difference.

(NOTE: the Fantom-8 keybed doesn't really deliver usable aftertouch at all, but that's another story)


----------



## Vik (Dec 2, 2022)

Pianolando said:


> IMHO the Walker is much better than Ivory 2


It sounds much better than my old favorite Ivory 2 – more presence, warmth and clarity. But are there any libraries out there which sounds like the Walker, but with a more 'purist' approach in terms of tuning and artifacts?


----------



## Alex C (Dec 5, 2022)

These last few months it has been the VILabs Ravenscroft 'Room' perspective. That's right! The one nobody uses. This perspective kinda obscures that special tone of the Ravenscroft. It might be a bit roomy (farther away instead of closeby) but it's a pretty convincing piano and quite suitable for soundtracks or in a mix with other instruments.


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## Tanarri (Dec 6, 2022)

Sampletekk Black Grand MkII, White Grand MkII and Blue Grand MkII. After all those years, still my fave and go to pianos.

Plus, you can get them for like 90% off during the sales.


----------



## chet.d (Dec 6, 2022)

I haven't tried Teletone's latest grand but I do like and use Postcard Piano a Bunch. Still using the Imperfect Piano stuff as well.


----------



## thesteelydane (Dec 7, 2022)

I always come back to the Ravenscroft 275, Fracture Sounds Woodchester if I need felt piano. I have loads of others, but I always return to these two. I'm not a piano player though, and have limited experience with playing on real pianos, so there's that...


----------



## slobajudge (Dec 7, 2022)

Alex C said:


> These last few months it has been the VILabs Ravenscroft 'Room' perspective. That's right! The one nobody uses. This perspective kinda obscures that special tone of the Ravenscroft. It might be a bit roomy (farther away instead of closeby) but it's a pretty convincing piano and quite suitable for soundtracks or in a mix with other instruments.


When I use Ravenscroft I exclusively use room and player position. I agree with you that it gives a more realistic sound. I don't use close and side microphones because they give a different sound color that I don't like too much. The combination of all 4 microphones does not give a good result in my opinion.


----------



## AMas (Dec 7, 2022)

Thank you for this, as we’ve been working for the past couple of months on not one but TWO piano libraries, this gives me a really cool list to check out (and I already own most of the ones mentioned)


----------



## Alex C (Dec 10, 2022)

slobajudge said:


> When I use Ravenscroft I exclusively use room and player position. I agree with you that it gives a more realistic sound. I don't use close and side microphones because they give a different sound color that I don't like too much. The combination of all 4 microphones does not give a good result in my opinion.



I still want them to release a Steinway though. Don't quite understand why VILabs is so slow in releasing a new product.


----------



## CGR (Dec 10, 2022)

slobajudge said:


> When I use Ravenscroft I exclusively use room and player position. I agree with you that it gives a more realistic sound. I don't use close and side microphones because they give a different sound color that I don't like too much. The combination of all 4 microphones does not give a good result in my opinion.


I’ve had a love-hate-like-love relationship with the VI Labs Ravenscroft. After the initial honeymoon period, I grew tired of its tone, regardless of what settings I tried (including tone, timbre shift, individual mics and mic combinations) and eventually sold my license.

After hearing other people creating wonderful music with the Ravenscroft (@keepitsimple) and battling with inconsistencies of numerous other sampled pianos, I bought a license again through the Forum here, and am keeping it this time. It’s probably the most completely sampled & scripted virtual piano I know of, considering the 4 mic positions, 19 velocity layer chromatic sampling, real una corda samples, half pedaling & gradated re-pedaling, silent key and muted strike samples, and fine control of sympathetic resonances, mechanical noises etc. It also responds incredibly well to touch & dynamics. As a bonus, it’s very efficient with computer storage and CPU requirements.

After much tweaking and comparing, I’ve settled on using the Side mics only, particularly for live use when playing solo or with a singer/guitarist. The stereo image works perfectly for me, giving a natural width & dimension without an artificial bass-notes-left, treble-notes-right panning. It’s a very clean, modern and somewhat clinical tone, but it’s a real joy to play, and with a quality keyboard or controller, gives back what you put in to it.


----------



## CGR (Dec 10, 2022)

Alex C said:


> I still want them to release a Steinway though. Don't quite understand why VILabs is so slow in releasing a new product.


+1 . . . a 5-6 year old Hamburg Steinway B which has “opened up” and gained some depth and complexity of tone, sampled and scripted to the standard of the Ravenscroft and Modern U would be ideal


----------



## tack (Dec 10, 2022)

So many purchases over the 13 years since it was released, but nothing has yet displaced the Galaxy Vintage D for me. Most sample-based pianos suffer from inexcusable playability problems, unpalatable noise build up, or just an uninspiring sound. The Vintage D is not without its problems (including one very annoying bug that goes away when I reload the patch) but even today it ticks more of my boxes than any purchase since in terms of my go-to VI piano.

I use Pianoteq for practice, but the Vintage D when I want a playable, good sounding piano.


----------



## SupremeFist (Dec 10, 2022)

CGR said:


> +1 . . . a 5-6 year old Hamburg Steinway B which has “opened up” and gained some depth and complexity of tone, sampled and scripted to the standard of the Ravenscroft and Modern U would be ideal


I'm a big fan of the (I think) underrated Fluffy Audio Scoring Piano, and would also love a really deeply sampled B...


----------



## CGR (Dec 10, 2022)

tack said:


> So many purchases over the 13 years since it was released, but nothing has yet displaced the Galaxy Vintage D for me. Most sample-based pianos suffer from inexcusable playability problems, unpalatable noise build up, or just an uninspiring sound. The Vintage D is not without its problems (including one very annoying bug that goes away when I reload the patch) but even today it ticks more of my boxes than any purchase since in terms of my go-to VI piano.
> 
> I use Pianoteq for practice, but the Vintage D when I want a playable, good sounding piano.


Yes, Galaxy Instruments got a lot of things right with the Vintage D. To my ears it still lacks that immersive 3D image which separate full sustain pedal down samples provide, but overall stands proudly amongst today’s competition.


----------



## CGR (Dec 10, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> I'm a big fan of the (I think) underrated Fluffy Audio Scoring Piano, and would also love a really deeply sampled B...


Yes, although skewed more towards the softer side, it’s surprising flexible and very well scripted, and can punch a bit with the right settings. Still doesn’t hit the wild resonances of FF-FFF playing, so there’s still a place for VI Labs to have a go!


----------



## slobajudge (Dec 10, 2022)

CGR said:


> I’ve had a love-hate-like-love relationship with the VI Labs Ravenscroft. After the initial honeymoon period, I grew tired of its tone, regardless of what settings I tried (including tone, timbre shift, individual mics and mic combinations) and eventually sold my license.
> 
> After hearing other people creating wonderful music with the Ravenscroft (@keepitsimple) and battling with inconsistencies of numerous other sampled pianos, I bought a license again through the Forum here, and am keeping it this time. It’s probably the most completely sampled & scripted virtual piano I know of, considering the 4 mic positions, 20+ velocity layered chromatic sampling, real una corda samples, half pedaling & gradated re-pedaling, silent key and muted strike samples, and fine control of sympathetic resonances, mechanical noises etc. It also responds incredibly well to touch & dynamics. As a bonus, it’s very efficient with computer storage and CPU requirements.
> 
> After much tweaking and comparing, I’ve settled on using the Side mics only, particularly for live use when playing solo or with a singer/guitarist. The stereo image works perfectly for me, giving a natural width & dimension without an artificial bass-notes-left, treble-notes-right panning. It’s a very clean, modern and somewhat clinical tone, but it’s a real joy to play, and with a quality keyboard or controller, gives back what you put in to it.


Yes, Ravenscroft always somehow reverts back to the computer, I guess because it's flawlessly optimized and works perfectly. In combination with the Modern U piano, it forms an almost perfect duo grand - upright and plus take up very little space. Honestly, I'm not sure there are better optimized sampled pianos on the market. I usually have two phases, one when I play the so-called character pianos and others when I tire of their bugs and then I usually go back to Ravenscroft or Garritan. There is also a new Meldwey piano which is currently my favorite Steinway. I honestly wish Vilabs would make a new Steinway in the quality range of the Modern U piano.


----------



## river angler (Dec 10, 2022)

I think the quality of most piano libraries these days is pretty high now and one can achieve fantastic results from a lot of the ones mentioned on the list at the top of this thread. 

Sometimes a software VST can yield better results than a real miced up piano in the studio if only because there are less things that can go wrong along the recording/production process let alone the vastly reduced time factor using software VSTs. 

Can't say I have a "favourite" as for sure no one library fits all jobs sonically nor inspirationally while actually playing them within a project. Wether one is able to use the actual inspired, played in take on a finished recording as opposed to having to doctor the sound in some way both notationally and sonically may be the deciding factor between choosing between one or another. 

As you can tell I don't really look at a piano library in terms of each ones raw sound or even playability for even if noodling around (which I rarely have time to do these days anyway!) depending on what mood/feel I'm seeking I might choose any one of the 5 libraries in my working pallet to fit the way I am addressing the keyboard at the time! It doesn't usually take too much time to discover which one is at least in the right ballpark!

Certainly between all five I can conjure up literally any piano vibe I could ever want sonically and be sufficiently inspired while actually playing the parts in.

I find it crazy how so many seem to keep buying piano libraries but hey! I'm not a hobbyist!


----------



## fan455 (Dec 10, 2022)

CGR said:


> +1 . . . a 5-6 year old Hamburg Steinway B which has “opened up” and gained some depth and complexity of tone, sampled and scripted to the standard of the Ravenscroft and Modern U would be ideal


Have you tried the new Steinway B sample library by Dore on pianobook?





The Experience – New York S&S Model B – pianobook







www.pianobook.co.uk


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## fan455 (Dec 10, 2022)

Among many Yamaha and Steinway pianos, I find myself prefer the tone of Yamahas. Yamahas (particularly the old CFIIIS and new CFX) are generally more sparking in the treble and more smooth in the low-mid and bass, whereas a lot of Steinways, though fuller and less strident sounding, have rounder, less wood-like (or say more glassy) and faster-decaying sound and more dissonant bass (due to more inharmonic higher frequencies I guess).

Not all Steinways sound like that and Steinway pianos are known to be unique. Piano in 162, maybe an aged Steinway B, has that more woody and soothing feel I love, I find.


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## CGR (Dec 10, 2022)

fan455 said:


> Have you tried the new Steinway B sample library by Dore on pianobook?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have – it's a fine effort and my favourite sampled piano by Dore to date. It's sampled in thirds so there is some note stretching in Kontakt, and the samples aren't full length (I think they are 8-12 sec long *) but it has a very natural tone. It's pretty raw sounding but in a good way. Reminds me a little of the Wholesounds Baldwin Parlour Grand. Here's a little Xmas tune with Dore's Steinway B, with reverb from Tai Chi:

View attachment Dore Mark Steinway B - Silent Night.mp3


* Correction: the samples are about 7-9 sec in length at middle C, and around 15-16 sec in length in the lowest A to A octave.


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## Alex C (Dec 11, 2022)

slobajudge said:


> Yes, Ravenscroft always somehow reverts back to the computer, I guess because it's flawlessly optimized and works perfectly. In combination with the Modern U piano, it forms an almost perfect duo grand - upright and plus take up very little space. Honestly, I'm not sure there are better optimized sampled pianos on the market. I usually have two phases, one when I play the so-called character pianos and others when I tire of their bugs and then I usually go back to Ravenscroft or Garritan. There is also a new Meldwey piano which is currently my favorite Steinway. I honestly wish Vilabs would make a new Steinway in the quality range of the Modern U piano.



The Ravenscroft has one technical flaw though. One of the notes in the Room Perspective has a click at the beginning of the sample. It's only a problem if you, like me, use the Room as your main or dominant perspective. I too have Modern U and regard it as a perfect sampled instrument, but it is and it will always be an upright.


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## slobajudge (Dec 11, 2022)

Alex C said:


> The Ravenscroft has one technical flaw though. One of the notes in the Room Perspective has a click at the beginning of the sample.


What  ? Let me see, some 17000 samples, so approximately 4250 samples per microphone, if it's only one with a click I'm selling everything and moving in an unknown direction without electricity


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## Alex C (Dec 11, 2022)

slobajudge said:


> What  ? Let me see, some 17000 samples, so approximately 4250 samples per microphone, if it's only one with a click I'm selling everything and moving in an unknown direction without electricity


But what if that click happens to be in your choice of perspective? Then there's no escaping it. It's there every time you play the piano, almost to a point that you want to avoid that note in your improvs. Most people don't know this because they are probably playing the Close, Player and Side perspectives.


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## slobajudge (Dec 11, 2022)

Alex C said:


> But what if that click happens to be in your choice of perspective? Then there's no escaping it. It's there every time you play the piano, almost to a point that you want to avoid that note in your improvs. Most people don't know this because they are probably playing the Close, Player and Side perspectives.


Then the only thing left for me is to compose a melody around that click and give it special importance in the song, so that when you hear the click, the peak of emotion will follow and you will wish there were more of them.


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## Alex C (Dec 23, 2022)

My current favorite piano was actually right under my nose this whole time. It's .... Garritan CFX! I always thought it was a good piano but ultimately it sounded a bit too mid-rangy for my taste. However, a few days ago I discovered that changing the Velocity Curve from Default to Medium 1 makes all the difference.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 23, 2022)

I've recently used the C. Bechstein Digital on a few things and am loving it anew. I guess it's not often mentioned here because it's never on sale, but in my opinion it can still hold its own against anything from VSL or other devs.


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