# Looking to buy my first VEP server - would a budget of $1500 USD be enough for a decent machine?



## osterdamus (Dec 30, 2021)

I don't have many requirements, but I'd like to have:

* 32GB ram, upgradable to 128GB
* 500MB-2GB internal storage
* Mini-ATX form factor
* 8 Cores, maybe more (but I read elsewhere on here that CPU clock might be more important)

If anyone has built a machine recently that matches this, I'd love to see your pcpartpicker list.


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## JohnG (Dec 30, 2021)

Hi there — I don’t have a recent Partpicker list, but you should be able to build a good computer for that, or close to it.

Personally, I go for at least 4 GHz on the clock, because I have the impression that the scripting is fairly heavy on some libraries these days. I am on i9 series CPUs and they perform well.


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## KEM (Dec 30, 2021)

With todays current tech, absolutely!! My computer was almost exactly $1,500 when I got it for my birthday in 2015, and the only thing I’ve had to upgrade is the ram and of course adding more storage, everything else has been completely fine and my VEP template has hundreds of tracks. If you’re spending that much on current tech you’ll have no issues


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## osterdamus (Dec 30, 2021)

JohnG said:


> Hi there — I don’t have a recent Partpicker list, but you should be able to build a good computer for that, or close to it.
> 
> Personally, I go for at least 4 GHz on the clock, because I have the impression that the scripting is fairly heavy on some libraries these days. I am on i9 series CPUs and they perform well.


Do you have any suggestions on specific brand of the cpu? I could really use a recommendation on cpu or motherboard to get started, I feel surprisingly out of the loop. 🤦🏼‍♂️😄


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## KEM (Dec 30, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Do you have any suggestions on specific brand of the cpu? I could really use a recommendation on cpu or motherboard to get started, I feel surprisingly out of the loop. 🤦🏼‍♂️😄



Mines an Intel 6700k, I’m sure a lot of people will tell you to go AMD these days but I still don’t know if I full trust them, I’d go with Intel personally


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

KEM said:


> Mines an Intel 6700k, I’m sure a lot of people will tell you to go AMD these days but I still don’t know if I full trust them, I’d go with Intel personally


Thanks for sharing. Do you know what the modern equivalent is these days, then I’ll try to put a list together around that cpu?


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## KEM (Dec 31, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Thanks for sharing. Do you know what the modern equivalent is these days, then I’ll try to put a list together around that cpu?



12700k, although I should mention a huge check of the original cost of my PC was due to my graphics card, which doesn’t have any use for VEP so you could spend the money saved on an i9 or a lot of ram or storage, your pick really


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

Based on that I tried to put something together here, I’d appreciate any feedback: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kgxBfP

I opted for 64Gb, 1TB for internal storage (I have one 1TB disk with samples already). The CPU is somewhat guesswork, so open to adjustments.

I notice that the cpu has integrated graphics chipset, i speculate if this means that I could avoid buying a dedicated graphics card? I would need some hdmi ports though, so wondering if I need to change the motherboard to make use of this?


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## Bear Market (Dec 31, 2021)

I built a VEP machine earlier this year and I've been quite happy with its performance. It is extremely quiet as well! It runs the backbone of my orchestral template without any fuss (Spitfire SSO, HZS, CSS, CSB, JXL Brass, EWC among others, but obviously not all used at the same time).

I don't have a list on PC PartPicker, but these are the components I used:

Case: Loque Ghost S1 Mk3
CPU: Intel i7-10700K
MB: ASUS ROG Strix B560-I Gaming (I chose this because I wanted a TB port for my Multidock)
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX Black DDR4 3200MHz 2x32GB
SSD: Samsung 970 EVO Plus Series MZ-V7S250BW 250GB 
PSU: Corsair SF600 80+
Radiator: Fractal Design Celsius S24
Fan: 2 x Noctua NF-A12x25


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

Bear Market said:


> I built a VEP machine earlier this year and I've been quite happy with its performance. It is extremely quiet as well! It runs the backbone of my orchestral template without any fuss (Spitfire SSO, HZS, CSS, CSB, JXL Brass, EWC among others, but obviously not all used at the same time).
> 
> I don't have a list on PC PartPicker, but these are the components I used:
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, really interesting. And nice with the Thunderbolt 👍🏻

Don’t see a graphics card on here, was it built into the motherboard / cpu?


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## Bear Market (Dec 31, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Thanks for sharing, really interesting. And nice with the Thunderbolt 👍🏻
> 
> Don’t see a graphics card on here, was it built into the motherboard / cpu?


Yep, I only use the integrated graphics. The MB has an HDMI port but I only access the machine remotely from my DAW machine (Trashcan Mac).


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

Bear Market said:


> Yep, I only use the integrated graphics. The MB has an HDMI port but I only access the machine remotely from my DAW machine (Trashcan Mac).


If you don’t mind me asking, since I chose cpu with graphics chipset, would I be able to ditch the graphics card? Do I need to make any changes to the motherboard?

I’m planning to do the same as you, maybe use a screen while setting it up, but remote access thereafter.


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## Bear Market (Dec 31, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> If you don’t mind me asking, since I chose cpu with graphics chipset, would I be able to ditch the graphics card? Do I need to make any changes to the motherboard?
> 
> I’m planning to do the same as you, maybe use a screen while setting it up, but remote access thereafter.


I'm far from a tech guy, but I don't see why not.


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## jeffreycl (Dec 31, 2021)

Generally speaking on the Intel processors a suffix of K means unlocked to overclock if wanted. If it includes a suffix of F, then it means the processor does not support onboard graphics and you will have to buy a separate graphics card. Try going to https://pcpartpicker.com/list/. It is generally pretty good at telling you if you have incompatability or other issues with components you choose. It also gives prices of the components. I still wouldn't trust it 100% and do my research on the parts, but a good place to start. It was recommended to me by our company's contract IT rep. for specifying a computer build. Hoping late 2022 or early 2023 I'll actually get to use it to build one.


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

jeffreycl said:


> Generally speaking on the Intel processors a suffix of K means unlocked to overclock if wanted. If it includes a suffix of F, then it means the processor does not support onboard graphics and you will have to buy a separate graphics card. Try going to https://pcpartpicker.com/list/. It is generally pretty good at telling you if you have incompatability or other issues with components you choose. It also gives prices of the components. I still wouldn't trust it 100% and do my research on the parts, but a good place to start. It was recommended to me by our company's contract IT rep. for specifying a computer build. Hoping late 2022 or early 2023 I'll actually get to use it to build one.


My current list can be seen here: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kgxBfP

I’d love to add thunderbolt and somehow verify that I use graphics built into the cpu, so that I can exclude the dedicated graphics card (don’t need it).


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

jeffreycl said:


> Generally speaking on the Intel processors a suffix of K means unlocked to overclock if wanted. If it includes a suffix of F, then it means the processor does not support onboard graphics and you will have to buy a separate graphics card. Try going to https://pcpartpicker.com/list/. It is generally pretty good at telling you if you have incompatability or other issues with components you choose. It also gives prices of the components. I still wouldn't trust it 100% and do my research on the parts, but a good place to start. It was recommended to me by our company's contract IT rep. for specifying a computer build. Hoping late 2022 or early 2023 I'll actually get to use it to build one.


sorry, I zoomed so much into the pcpicker part of the comment, that I didn’t really internalize your explanation about the suffixes. 😄 Thank you for this!


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 31, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> If you don’t mind me asking, since I chose cpu with graphics chipset, would I be able to ditch the graphics card? Do I need to make any changes to the motherboard?
> 
> I’m planning to do the same as you, maybe use a screen while setting it up, but remote access thereafter.


Sorry if this has been explained before.... I just woke up from a belated christmas dinner and, well... 







But NO, you don't need a separate graphics card for your VEPro machine. Just go for a decent CPU (I tend to go with Intel - K versions, overclock them a tiny bit) with graphics built in and connect using Remote Access. Works like a charm. 

Good to see you going up to 64gB RAM. Depending on how big you want to go, it's very easy to fill up 32 gigs. To counter this you can do things like purge all your samples, then save your instances and disable the stuff you don't need right away.


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

quickbrownf0x said:


> Sorry if this has been explained before.... I just woke up from a belated christmas dinner and, well...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the input, I'll post an updated list momentarily. 

Is this your friend, btw?


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

Alright folks, how am I doing so far? https://pcpartpicker.com/user/christerdk/saved/ZFtt3C

Change log: 
* Changed to mini-ATX for smaller size (good or bad idea?).
* Ensured Rocket Lake architecture, which seemingly was necessary for the M.2 port to work(?)
* Removed graphics card
* Upgraded to 2TB disk. I thought I might as well, because since I need a disk in there anyway taking up a slot, I could use it for some sample libs (maybe the lesser used ones). Or should I opt for a smaller system disk, and then spend the saved money for a separate samples disk (as mentioned, I have a 1TB disk already)

I found that this MB has a Thunderbolt "header", but as I read it no actual thunderbolt port? But I'm admittedly also a little confused about the thunderbolt/USB 3.2/USB-C port/standard menagerie. Could someone enlighten me?

Gentle ping to @jeffreycl @quickbrownf0x @Bear Market @KEM


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## Ben (Dec 31, 2021)

The Intel 11th gen CPUs are waste of sand. Go for the 10th or 12th gen instead - you will get better performance with both.


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## Loerpert (Dec 31, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Thanks for sharing. Do you know what the modern equivalent is these days, then I’ll try to put a list together around that cpu?



I own both a new top end intel and AMD machine. Since VSL is good with multi core processing, the obvious choice would be a 16 core AMD cpu. But if you want 8 cores then both is fine. Be sure to pick the latest AMD generation though. In case of Intel pick gen 11x not 12 since DDR5 memory is extremely expensive right now and probably won't change too soon.


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## Ben (Dec 31, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> In case of Intel pick gen 11x not 12 since DDR5 memory is extremely expensive right now and probably won't change too soon.


You can use DDR4 RAM with the 12th gen Intel CPUs as well. Just make sure to get a board that is DDR4, not DDR5.
DDR5 currently is expensive and has almost no advantage (this will change over time, but for now you are better off with DDR4).


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## Loerpert (Dec 31, 2021)

Ben said:


> You can use DDR4 RAM with the 12th gen Intel CPUs as well. Just make sure to get a board that is DDR4, not DDR5.
> DDR5 currently is expensive and has almost no advantage (this will change over time, but for now you are better off with DDR4).



Good one! I didn't know there were DDR4 compatible boards.


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## Ben (Dec 31, 2021)

Loerpert said:


> Since VSL is good with multi processing, the obvious choice would be a 16 core AMD cpu. But if you want 8 cores then both is fine. Be sure to pick the latest AMD generation though.


Personally also my recommendation. I run a 5950x now for a year, and I'm super happy with it. But of course you don't have to go that crazy, a 5900x or 5800x will probably be just as fine (was the only CPU I could get during the shortage back then; I'm still looking to get a decent graphics card [~RTX 3070] at a decent price. I'm not willing to pay the scalpers tax).


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 31, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Alright folks, how am I doing so far? https://pcpartpicker.com/user/christerdk/saved/ZFtt3C
> 
> Change log:
> * Changed to mini-ATX for smaller size (good or bad idea?).
> ...



* Changed to mini-ATX for smaller size (good or bad idea?).
I'd go for just regular old ATX because it's just more common, so updates etc. are probably more frequent and you're less likely to encouter compatibility issues - BUT I could be wrong here, that's my train of thought, anyway.

* Ensured Rocket Lake architecture, which seemingly was necessary for the M.2 port to work(?)
Ehr..... don't think so. I think it's more a question of how many PCIE4 lanes you have available. Maybe @easyrider can help out?

* I found that this MB has a Thunderbolt "header", but as I read it no actual thunderbolt port?
A Thunderbolt header means that the motherboard has an internal connector (4 or 5-pin or sometimes both) ready to connect things like a TB PCI expansion card to it. So that's what you need to do - add like a Maple Ridge card.


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

quickbrownf0x said:


> * Changed to mini-ATX for smaller size (good or bad idea?).
> I'd go for just regular old ATX because it's just more common, so updates etc. are probably more frequent and you're less likely to encouter compatibility issues - BUT I could be wrong here, that's my train of thought, anyway.


Yeah, I get what you mean. It's going to be out of the way anyways, so form factor is not of highest importantance. 



quickbrownf0x said:


> * Ensured Rocket Lake architecture, which seemingly was necessary for the M.2 port to work(?)
> Ehr..... don't think so. I think it's more a question of how many PCIE4 lanes you have available. Maybe @easyrider can help out?


This was a reaction to a warning on pcpartpicker.



quickbrownf0x said:


> * I found that this MB has a Thunderbolt "header", but as I read it no actual thunderbolt port?
> A Thunderbolt header means that the motherboard has an internal connector (4 or 5-pin or sometimes both) ready to connect things like a TB PCI expansion card to it. So that's what you need to do - add like a Maple Ridge card.


I see, thank you for this.


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

Ben said:


> The Intel 11th gen CPUs are waste of sand. Go for the 10th or 12th gen instead - you will get better performance with both.


Thanks for the heads up.

How does one easily identify the generation of an intel CPU? I read from your warning that the i9 I've picked is 11th gen, but didn't spot that info on pcpartpicker. I had to find it on Amazon and search on page, and it was quite difficult to spot, really 😄


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

Ben said:


> The Intel 11th gen CPUs are waste of sand. Go for the 10th or 12th gen instead - you will get better performance with both.


Ah... it's the 11***? ... man, it's been a while since I've had anything to do with PC parts... 🤦🏼‍♂️😅


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

Now updated to Gen 10 per input from @Ben (gen 12 is a little out of my budget) and back to ATX per input from @quickbrownf0x 

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/christerdk/saved/ZFtt3C

Only thing that worries me a little right now is the "The motherboard M.2 slot #1 requires an Intel Rocket Lake-based CPU. When an Intel Rocket Lake-based CPU is not used, the M.2 slot is disabled."


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## iMovieShout (Dec 31, 2021)

I run x12 VEPro7 servers, of which 10 are running on dedicated Dell Enterprise Servers, 1 on my studio workstation PC (which also runs Nuendo), and 1 on an Apple MacPro 6,1.
The Dell servers are the workhorse, each with dual Xeon CPUs, 224GB RAM, 256GB SSD (only running Windows Server and VEPro7 (Vienna Ensemble Pro7)), whereby VST instruments are loaded across the network from a dedicated RAID0 SSD file server (easier to backup and easier to scale storage this way). 
But it is just as easy to have SSD storage on each server, but less easy to move VST libraries around (especially Spitfire) should I want to change server templates etc.
Each of the Dell servers is dedicated to an orchestra section or synths or effects etc, and has its own dedicated VEPro7 template.

These days its fairly easy to get a hold of a Dell server from eBay with 1,2 or 4 server modules built in. Something like the older 12th generation Dell C6100 series are good (which I use). Old but still very reliable and scalable up to 24 threads per module and up to 512GB DDR3 RAM. But anything above 256GB and it operates at half speed (800MHz). This spec if fine for running VEPro7 and the audio quality is perfect with low latency and buffering. A C6100 or C6110 is harder to come by these days, but for around £400 you can get a good one but you'll need to spend another £1000 to upgrade CPUs and memory. 
You'll need the faster Xeon 56775 or 5680 version 2 CPU's and 1333MHz DDR3 RAM (32GB modules are best).

The newer 14th generation Dell servers are more expensive but with DDR4 RAM and up to 64threads CPU, they are very very fast and even more scalable.

Lastly, you'll need to hide these away in a separate room with god ventilation. They run loud and hot.

Hope that helps.


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 31, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Now updated to Gen 10 per input from @Ben (gen 12 is a little out of my budget) and back to ATX per input from @quickbrownf0x
> 
> https://pcpartpicker.com/user/christerdk/saved/ZFtt3C
> 
> Only thing that worries me a little right now is the "The motherboard M.2 slot #1 requires an Intel Rocket Lake-based CPU. When an Intel Rocket Lake-based CPU is not used, the M.2 slot is disabled."


What about this one; https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z590-AORUS-PRO-AX-rev-10#kf 

Got this one myself.... will definitely work. I also have an 11900K btw.


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## JohnG (Dec 31, 2021)

Ben said:


> The Intel 11th gen CPUs are waste of sand. Go for the 10th or 12th gen instead - you will get better performance with both.


I agree with Ben. We rarely need the "most up to date." Very up to date is usually much cheaper.

Only other point is maybe you don't need 1 TB for boot drive but drives are so cheap maybe it's fine.


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

JohnG said:


> I agree with Ben. We rarely need the "most up to date." Very up to date is usually much cheaper.
> 
> Only other point is maybe you don't need 1 TB for boot drive but drives are so cheap maybe it's fine.


Agree. I’m not the first mover type, I don’t have time for any issues. So I’m good with better price and close to the best performance.


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

quickbrownf0x said:


> What about this one; https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z590-AORUS-PRO-AX-rev-10#kf
> 
> Got this one myself.... will definitely work. I also have an 11900K btw.


Very interesting... will look into this now.


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

quickbrownf0x said:


> What about this one; https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z590-AORUS-PRO-AX-rev-10#kf
> 
> Got this one myself.... will definitely work. I also have an 11900K btw.


It seems like there's no HDMI port on this motherboard, can you confirm?
Not that I'm going to use it much, but I'd prefer that it has.


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

Where does one procure Windows 10 (OEM) at a affordable price these days?


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 31, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> It seems like there's no HDMI port on this motherboard, can you confirm?
> Not that I'm going to use it much, but I'd prefer that it has.


Oh yeah, you're right. Had no idea.


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## 3CPU (Dec 31, 2021)

osterdamus said:


> Alright folks, how am I doing so far? https://pcpartpicker.com/user/christerdk/saved/ZFtt3C
> 
> Change log:
> * Changed to mini-ATX for smaller size (good or bad idea?).
> ...


Not so good! The 10900K or 12900K requires a larger cpu cooler such as the NH-D15 and higher-end motherboard with beefier power stages, such as the Gigabyte Aorus Pro 12 gen. In a nutshell, the 12900K is a hot sun of a beast. I'm afraid the 12900K build will blow your budget, you need to spend more.


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## quickbrownf0x (Dec 31, 2021)

3CPU said:


> Not so good! The 10900K or 12900K requires a larger cpu cooler such as the NH-D15 and higher-end motherboard with beefier power stages, such as the Gigabyte Aorus Pro 12 gen. In a nutshell, the 12900K is a hot sun of a beast. I'm afraid the 12900K build will blow your budget, you need to spend more.


Can I suggest the NZXT Kraken X73?
Not just because of really good cooling, but also because it looks so pwetty 
(Edit*- even on its side, apparently)


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

quickbrownf0x said:


> Can I suggest the NZXT Kraken X73?
> Not just because of really good cooling, but also because it looks so pwetty
> (Edit*- even on its side, apparently)


Holy moly, that's awesome... happy new year to you @quickbrownf0x ! 

PS. I bought my components, fun times ahead putting it all together!


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## jmauz (Dec 31, 2021)

FWIW I'm running almost all my orchestral samples on a slave that's running an old i7 and 64GB of ram. SSD's of course, and no graphics card. The machine is bare-bones, just CPU/RAM/MB and 2 drives. Never a hiccup.


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 31, 2021)

I feel like it's always my job to just say "invest the money you're about to spend on a server machine into your main machine". At least look at the price difference and see if it's worth the extra hassle. For me, it was not.


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## osterdamus (Dec 31, 2021)

Prockamanisc said:


> I feel like it's always my job to just say "invest the money you're about to spend on a server machine into your main machine". At least look at the price difference and see if it's worth the extra hassle. For me, it was not.


I appreciate the voice of reason! 

Currently I work on a MacBook 2019 16GB as my main machine, and while I'm not opposed to upgrading it, I've looked into the prices, and 32GB and upwards is just not worth it for me, not at this point at least. I'm happy with the fact that I have alternative way way to expand, but of course, time will tell if this will work for me.


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## Prockamanisc (Dec 31, 2021)

I hear you. I think back and thought about how much software I had to purchase, like MacDrive, which I have no use for since ditching the server computer. 

I would suggest 2 things: if possible, buy RAM that would be compatible with Macs, so you can swap it over if you ever decide to upgrade your main rig.

Also, I suggest a mini-ITX computer in a small case. I think that technology would more than suit your needs. The case I put it in is no bigger than a shoebox, so it's super small. And when I ditched the server machine, I still kept it around for gaming (on the rare day when I allow myself a break).









SilverStone SG13B-Q Black Computer Case - Newegg.com


Buy SilverStone SG13B-Q Black Plastic front panel, steel body Mini-ITX Computer Case Optional standard PS2(ATX) Power Supply with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




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