# How to approach a composer about an assistant position?



## tarantulis (Jul 30, 2018)

And am I even qualified? I can read/write music, play piano, and am well-versed in Logic, Pro Tools, Cubase, Ableton and Reason. I went to school for film score engineering/mixing, and have a large portfolio of solo works in various genres. I've scored a few short films, one of which had some mild success on Youtube. Are there other skills or experience beyond this, such as an internship, that I would need in order to be considered?

Beyond that, how does one go about approaching a composer for a position like this? Are there other similar entry-level positions where I might get a foot in the door?

Thanks!


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## Daryl (Jul 31, 2018)

Where do you live?


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## MatFluor (Jul 31, 2018)

I have no idea - I'm interest in the answers here as well.

But yeah, where you live seems pretty much essential. And "getting a foot in the door" is the thing to do - since those positions are not often publicly "advertised" - either you know a guy who knows a guy whose second cousin was at a bbq where the sister of a composer was picking up her son, and your guy happens to have heard that that composer might need a hand, or you get asked 

Honestly, I've seen a few composers who in their contact info on their webpage explicitly stated "I will not take assistant, please do not contact me for this matter, thank you".

So yeah - I'm curious what the experienced people here say


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## fretti (Jul 31, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> Honestly, I've seen a few composers who in their contact info on their webpage explicitly stated "I will not take assistant, please do not contact me for this matter, thank you".


I could imagine the flood of E-Mails for known composers if they don't put something like that on their website (though probably only those who had issues with the amount of applications put that on their site?!).

Though I think it's for many also a question of money and need, unless you have revenues and huge projects like HZ, JXL or people of that kind I can't imagine you would want to be responsible and pay for an employee who has to live on his own with that money (unless maybe part time as a basic income). Not to forget all the legal documents and files involved...
+especially in the film and music industry (afaik) most work is based on projects (or a series of projects?!) so it's imo not really economical for most composers to always have a lot of permanent employees/assistants when not knowing what and when the next project will even be

I can imagine the best way to get into something like that though is probably to work on your own stuff, try to get a (long) list of (small/er) projects you've worked on, ask for internships (if possible money wise), trying to establish a network with fellow composers, engineers, producers, artists, maybe even other assistants etc..
And who knows, sooner or later there'll be someone who either asks you directly, or proposes you to someone they know, or at least you have a better chance of hearing about an opening of a position


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## Saxer (Jul 31, 2018)

Sorry, doesn't help... but I just had a good laugh how this thread was listed in the side bar...


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## studiostuff (Jul 31, 2018)

If an assistant brings an endless supply of really funny, dirty jokes, and can, of course, make killer coffee... they can be taught everything else in a very short time.

I see many young composers make their way by getting on at film/video post production houses. They meet composers that come in to work with agency/film clients, they get a chance to sweeten w/music agency spots that start wanting SFX design only. If you're good and a fun hang, it doesn't take long to find a spot as an assistant or doing your own thing.


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## tarantulis (Jul 31, 2018)

Daryl said:


> Where do you live?



Just moved to LA.


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## tarantulis (Jul 31, 2018)

fretti said:


> I could imagine the flood of E-Mails for known composers if they don't put something like that on their website (though probably only those who had issues with the amount of applications put that on their site?!).
> 
> Though I think it's for many also a question of money and need, unless you have revenues and huge projects like HZ, JXL or people of that kind I can't imagine you would want to be responsible and pay for an employee who has to live on his own with that money (unless maybe part time as a basic income). Not to forget all the legal documents and files involved...
> +especially in the film and music industry (afaik) most work is based on projects (or a series of projects?!) so it's imo not really economical for most composers to always have a lot of permanent employees/assistants when not knowing what and when the next project will even be
> ...



Great advice!

Another route I was considering was an internship with Remote Control or a post-production company. Even if it's unpaid, I could make it work. I do make a mean cup of coffee! 

Is there any harm in just showing up to one of these places to ask if there's anything like this available, maybe shake some hands and leave a resume?

Best,
Dave


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## fretti (Jul 31, 2018)

tarantulis said:


> Great advice!
> 
> Another route I was considering was an internship with Remote Control or a post-production company. Even if it's unpaid, I could make it work. I do make a mean cup of coffee!
> 
> ...


Glad to help
I'm actually not working in the industry, but from my experience with companies (which most likely apply to most other industries and companies) is that they are less likely to turn you down if going there directly; shows interest in the thing you're asking for, and if there is someone responsible for HR talking to you, it's always a good way to leave a good impression and they may keep you in mind even if nothing is open atm --> also always good as you can reference that talk/contact about a position/internship etc. in an application or email later on.

That'll probably mostly applies for companies more public than RC (don't think they even have a website right now?!). Though Hans is afaik known for giving young composers chances; I think @ashtongleckman did an internship there last year or so (not sure, just recalling an Instagram post here); so companies/Persons like that are a great chance.

JunkieXL for example (or his management/studio in general?) has a contact form just for things like those on their website actually:
http://www.junkiexl.com/submission-portal/
And as the media capital of the world (well at least the US, which kind of is the world in those areas) I believe there are many companies to offer internships and part time jobs; and once proven you're talented and a nice guy to work and hang out with I'm sure there will be many possibilities for you!

Wish you luck and all the best,
Frederik


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## MPortmann (Jul 31, 2018)

The ability to blend in, get along with others, work in close quarters (hygiene important), be honest and trustworthy and most importantly offer quick help and solutions to your composer’s problems are important. 

I can’t tell you how many assistants over the years that I’ve worked with had a bad attitude (arrogant, entitled, thought the work was below them), showed up late or sometimes slept in without calling, lied about their skill sets and countered work requests with too many questions, personal rants and unrelated opinions. How I was taught coming up? My mentors were incredibly tough on me at all times and the work was taken seriously. You had to deliver the goods quickly. Every situation was high pressure. We never wasted any time in the studio. Afterwards, meals and such were a bit different and more loose. 

When I came up, the answer was “yes, how soon do you need it” and you figured it out as quick as possible or you were replaced. Clients left me alone with big time people because I did my work , didn’t intrude on their conversation unless asked and did not solicit myself unless my client offered. It’s a team atmosphere. Just sharing my experiences. I’m sure everyone has different ones.


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## JJP (Jul 31, 2018)

tarantulis said:


> Is there any harm in just showing up to one of these places to ask if there's anything like this available, maybe shake some hands and leave a resume?



I would advise against showing up unannounced. Many composers run small operations and you could be intruding at a busy time. You don't want to be a nuisance.

It's better to find a way in through someone who knows someone. You can try calling or emailing if you have contact info, but don't expect a reply. If a composer is not looking for anyone, she may not take the time to reply to every random inquiry.

Since you are in LA, have you looked into the Society of Composers and Lyricists? They run a mentor/intern program that selects about 5 people twice a year for a series of workshops with various folks in the scoring world. It's a good way to get a feel for the industry and meet some people. My wife and I do the music preparation workshop.

The SCL can also be a way to meet others and keep your ear to the ground for opportunities. I know some composers will contact the SCL directors looking for assistants.

Since you said you went to school for film score engineering and mixing, contact your school's alumni network to connect with other graduates working in the industry who would be willing to meet with you. Many alumni and willing to meet with recent grads to give them a heads-up on the business and let them know of opportunities. "I have a friend who is looking for someone..." can be a golden foot-in-the-door.


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## tarantulis (Jul 31, 2018)

MPortmann said:


> The ability to blend in, get along with others, work in close quarters (hygiene important), be honest and trustworthy and most importantly offer quick help and solutions to your composer’s problems are important.
> 
> I can’t tell you how many assistants over the years that I’ve worked with had a bad attitude (arrogant, entitled, thought the work was below them), showed up late or sometimes slept in without calling, lied about their skill sets and countered work requests with too many questions, personal rants and unrelated opinions. How I was taught coming up? My mentors were incredibly tough on me at all times and the work was taken seriously. You had to deliver the goods quickly. Every situation was high pressure. We never wasted any time in the studio. Afterwards, meals and such were a bit different and more loose.
> 
> When I came up, the answer was “yes, how soon do you need it” and you figured it out as quick as possible or you were replaced. Clients left me alone with big time people because I did my work , didn’t intrude on their conversation unless asked and did not solicit myself unless my client offered. It’s a team atmosphere. Just sharing my experiences. I’m sure everyone has different ones.



Some of the best advice I've ever heard! Thanks, Mark!

Did most of your assistants have internships, and if so, how important do you consider this? It seems that an internship might be a good first step to making some friends and showing how hard I'm willing to work.


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## MPortmann (Jul 31, 2018)

Also learn everything you can about your client. How they work, how they came up, where they are from, all their music, etc...Even an obscure track, referencing it when you get your moment will gain you points. 

There is work out there. Someone is getting those jobs. Be enthusiastic, as if you’re life depended on it. Hopefully it is genuine and not feigned. 

Extraordinary results take extraordinary actions. Take extraordinary action! I once got onto a soundstage to meet an A list composer while in session by throwing water on my face and pleading to security that I was very late delivering scores to a session (not recommending this at all). Had met the composer once before and when he saw me at his session (very perplexed) he gave me a score and sat me down in front of the Mixing console. He couldn’t believe I had found a way into his session. This could have backfired too. I was young and had little to lose. 

Be original. Find your way in, there’s endless ways. Real and in person seems like the best way rather than internet and social media. I used to find out where people would eat. You don’t want to be a stalker. If you’re cool and just want a few minutes of their time (don’t ask them for anything, offer them something). 

Also, it always better to be recommended by a peer or someone close to your composer that they respect then just cold calling/contacting. You can also befriend those people and let them know your ultimate goal. 

Brian Grazer has some great insight on this I’m his podcast w Tim Ferris. 

good luck!


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## tarantulis (Jul 31, 2018)

JJP said:


> I would advise against showing up unannounced. Many composers run small operations and you could be intruding at a busy time. You don't want to be a nuisance.
> 
> It's better to find a way in through someone who knows someone. You can try calling or emailing if you have contact info, but don't expect a reply. If a composer is not looking for anyone, she may not take the time to reply to every random inquiry.
> 
> ...



Wow, didn't know about the SCL—will definitely investigate this.

As for showing up in person, I definitely wouldn't do this for a composer—what about for an internship at RC or a post-production company?

I wish my university had a better alum, unfortunately it was a small and short-lived program at the University of Texas. I did get to study under Steve Krause (Mark Isham's engineer) who has since become a fantastic mentor and friend.


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## MatFluor (Jul 31, 2018)

tarantulis said:


> Wow, didn't know about the SCL—will definitely investigate this.
> 
> As for showing up in person, I definitely wouldn't do this for a composer—what about for an internship at RC or a post-production company?



I don't know how you americans are tuned to this - but here if you just show up at the door wanting to leave a resumée, you will be politely asked to leave without leaving anything behind - there are official channels for applications. As said - that's what happens here, no idea about the US.

Just remember, that Composers (RC is a composers house, so that counts) and post-production companies, if they don't have a lobby or the like, might be working under NDA on a current movie, ad or whatever, and anyone "walking in" is a security risk which can cost a ton of money.
From my view - as swiss - if I wanted to "drop in", I would personally give a call in advance that you would like to come by and say hello or something. I don't know - but I would definitely ask before I just stand there and get a door slapped into my face and afterwards having a bad reputation like "Hey, if that guy comes over to you, just close the door, he's trying to get a job and just wanted to come in here".

Of course, as said earlier, I have no Idea how the US works in that regard nor have I had an internship/assistant position somewhere (although I always keep my eyes open, but switzerland is a dead country) - so, don't take my advice/opinion as "experienced".


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## tarantulis (Jul 31, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> I don't know how you americans are tuned to this - but here if you just show up at the door wanting to leave a resumée, you will be politely asked to leave without leaving anything behind - there are official channels for applications. As said - that's what happens here, no idea about the US.
> 
> Just remember, that Composers (RC is a composers house, so that counts) and post-production companies, if they don't have a lobby or the like, might be working under NDA on a current movie, ad or whatever, and anyone "walking in" is a security risk which can cost a ton of money.
> From my view - as swiss - if I wanted to "drop in", I would personally give a call in advance that you would like to come by and say hello or something. I don't know - but I would definitely ask before I just stand there and get a door slapped into my face and afterwards having a bad reputation like "Hey, if that guy comes over to you, just close the door, he's trying to get a job and just wanted to come in here".
> ...



You make a good point! I hadn't considered this.

As far as I know, RC has a receptionist, but I definitely wouldn't want to come across as unprofessional or disruptive. Perhaps a phone call in advance is the way to go.


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## stonzthro (Jul 31, 2018)

Lots of advice here already - I'd add this: just contact composers directly (you'll likely not be starting at the top, but ask anyway) and see if they need any help. If they do, they'll let you know; if you don't hear back they didn't need help. Asking about how to ask has only put that many more people in front of you. Worrying about seeming unprofessional is fruitless - you're a new guy, play that card and just say "Gosh, I had no idea - what do you suggest?" if people look at you funny. Keep in mind that everyone knows how hard it is to make a living.

If that's the route you want - just get going.


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## JJP (Jul 31, 2018)

tarantulis said:


> it was a small and short-lived program at the University of Texas.



Texas is a big school regardless of the size of your program. Tap that network. The probably have a contact in LA.


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## Desire Inspires (Jul 31, 2018)

MPortmann said:


> How I was taught coming up? My mentors were incredibly tough on me at all times and the work was taken seriously. You had to deliver the goods quickly. Every situation was high pressure. We never wasted any time in the studio. Afterwards, meals and such were a bit different and more loose.



That sounds rough.


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## chillbot (Aug 1, 2018)

Saxer said:


> Sorry, doesn't help... but I just had a good laugh how this thread was listed in the side bar...


Hm. @Jdiggity1


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## chillbot (Aug 1, 2018)

I thought MPortmann's first post was spot on and second post a bit dudgy.


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## erica-grace (Aug 2, 2018)

Your best bet here is to read the posts here by Hans Zimmer in the "I want to get a job at RC" thread - or something like that. He explains pretty well what it takes.


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## Strezov (Aug 2, 2018)

Work a lot and be ready to sacrifice a lot of your personal time. Then approach composers.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Aug 2, 2018)

Sure you wanna do it? Sounds like tons of ass-kissing and drudgery.


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## MPortmann (Aug 2, 2018)

Desire Inspires said:


> That sounds rough.



Honestly I loved every second of it. I have found I do my best work under pressure. Learning to handle high pressure situations and still be able to perform, be creative and relax was key. Most of my key breakthroughs and best work came from these situations where it was all on the line. Helps today too when a director expects 2:00min a day of original scores orchestral music


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 2, 2018)

MPortmann said:


> Honestly I loved every second of it. I have found I do my best work under pressure. Learning to handle high pressure situations and still be able to perform, be creative and relax was key. Most of my key breakthroughs and best work came from these situations where it was all on the line. Helps today too when a director expects 2:00min a day of original scores orchestral music



You must be the man! How are you able to thrive under all of that pressure? Your workload must be montrous. Are your clients taking good care of you financially?


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## MPortmann (Aug 2, 2018)

Desire Inspires said:


> You must be the man! How are you able to thrive under all of that pressure? Your workload must be montrous. Are your clients taking good care of you financially?



Thanks but I wouldn’t say that. I just need to push myself to get the best out. I watched many mentors and musical hero’s of mine absolutely soar under (what I thought) insane pressure. For them it was fun. Like HBO filming live a 90piece orchestra on Hollywood soundstage, Friday night, contractor warning we are about to go into Golden time (triple union pay whole orchestra). Engineer had erased an elaborate click track with a score that had about 20 time signatures and tempo changes just in the intro. My boss asked for score, sight read it and manually tapped in a click for the orchestra. Finished the take 1minute before midnight. Great teachers! 

Financially, sometimes yes, sometimes not. I won’t be abused financially but sometimes the job is worth more than the pay. You get experience, meet new connections that lead to next steps. I saved my money. Live below my means so that I don’t panic and choose quality jobs. Many which I don’t win. Gain experience, learn what you have to do better. For me the right job is one that will lead to more opportunities and work that I emotionally connect to.


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