# POLL - Which artwork for RealiWhistle?



## Mike Greene (Jun 3, 2021)

We're upgrading RealiWhistle to Kontakt Player, and part of the NKS requirements is supplying artwork. We have two contenders, but the debate is heated here at RealiHeadquarters! So what better way to decide than a poll at everybody's favorite forum?

The two choices are below. Whistling artwork is a tough one, so if you're tempted to say "neither," then show me an example of what you think would be better. If we go with that, I'll hook you up with whichever Realitone library you want.

Also, since a lot of people already have RealiWhistle, then here's the answer to the obvious question: If you bought (or buy) any time after March 11, 2021, the KPlayer upgrade will be free. If you bought it before that, the KPlayer upgrade will be $10.


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## ReelToLogic (Jun 3, 2021)

Cool that you are asking the Forum! I have RealiWhistle and I've only used it in country style tracks, so in my mind I had a cowboy/cowgirl image in my head, a bit like the artwork in RealiBanjo. So neither of these images captures that vibe for me - but what the hell do I know - perhaps that's not what you are going for! If you put a cowboy hat on the second one (or made a third one) I'd vote for that.


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## Trash Panda (Jun 3, 2021)




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## Polkasound (Jun 3, 2021)

Both are good and serve the purpose well, but I favor the bottom graphic for its hometown "Andy Griffith" vibe... the same idea that makes RealiBanjo so fun to play.


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## Alex Niedt (Jun 3, 2021)

Voted for one, but they both look very "clipart" to me.


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## wilifordmusic (Jun 3, 2021)

You may have to license this one.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 3, 2021)

If we can't have @wilifordmusic 's... I like number one.

Thinking of picking up RealiWhistle. Got a corporate tune that I think it would work well in.


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## kgdrum (Jun 3, 2021)

I want to change my vote from #1 to the hot feisty grandma! 😘


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## rrichard63 (Jun 3, 2021)

The first one makes me think singer before it makes me think whistler. So I voted for the second.


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## LamaRose (Jun 3, 2021)

Lived in the deep south for 35 years... the dude strutting his stuff reminds me of my doctor, preacher, and plumber. He better fits the library, but disturbs me somethin' deep.

If the cool smiley dude was unshaven and his music notes exchanged for some chaw spittle...?

After watching the walkthrough, I'd go with Deep South.


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## Trash Panda (Jun 3, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> The first one makes me think singer before it makes me think whistler. So I voted for the second.


A little pooch of the lips on the first would fix that. I’m not sure if mentioning that the first graphic looking more professional is a point in favor of or against it.


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## Double Helix (Jun 3, 2021)




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## el-bo (Jun 3, 2021)

wilifordmusic said:


> You may have to license this one.


As much as this is a joke, the fingers in mouth would be a much clearer way of distinguishing whistling from singing.

Something a little more like this, perhaps:





Either that, or as someone else alluded to, a much more obvious pursing of the lips on the first

Edited due to having made the wrong call, with regard to the second picture


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## el-bo (Jun 3, 2021)

Actually, I’m clearly chatting shit...again. The fingered whistle is not a melodic whistle. 
I personally think the first would be a better option, if the lips could be pursed to distinguish whistling from singing.


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## nightjar (Jun 3, 2021)




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## propianist (Jun 4, 2021)




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## propianist (Jun 4, 2021)

You need another animated cartoon character like in RealiBanjo.


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## kgdrum (Jun 4, 2021)

propianist said:


> You need another animated cartoon character like in RealiBanjo.


Maybe the same guy…………….


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## Drundfunk (Jun 4, 2021)

Well this poll is helpful so far....


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## el-bo (Jun 4, 2021)

Drundfunk said:


> Well this poll is helpful so far....


I hadn’t even voted. Now that I have, it’s nudged the vote to exactly 50/50


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## PerryD (Jun 4, 2021)




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## JDK88 (Jun 4, 2021)

Second one goes better with RealiBanjo.


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## Polkasound (Jun 4, 2021)




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## Casiquire (Jun 4, 2021)

I voted for the second one for two reasons. One, the first one is kind of generic emoji looking, and emojis and smileys have an outdated feel and and any reminder of the emoji movie is better avoided. Two, the second one bears similarities to other established images you've used so there's a feeling of continuity. It's also clever marketing to draw a soft association between the whistle and the banjo which should theoretically go well together in similar musical styles. Cross-sell appeal is always wise


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## Mike Greene (Jun 4, 2021)

Thank you all for the votes and comments. Although there's no clear winner (for a while it was dead even!), this is really helpful, because at least we know neither is horrible, which is the main thing I wanted to know. (My artistic tastes can be a little weird sometimes, so that's a real concern.)

Whistlin' Dude (which I like, but wasn't my idea - mine was the emoji) is definitely more fun, as well as more memorable, so I'm kinda leaning that way now. My concern, though, and the reason for this thread, is that some people don't like cartoon graphics on their "professional" instruments. (I intentionally waited for people's first responses before mentioning that, because I didn't want to tilt the scale.)

The original artwork for Realivox Ladies, for instance, was an anime/manga singer, which I really loved, but a lot of people didn't.






Same with RealiBanjo. I was soooo pleased with myself (I've always been my own biggest fan), but we got a lot of complaints about the graphics on that one. Enough that I started a poll in this thread, about whether animated graphics made you more or less likely to buy a product. The poll results got erased in the forum update, but I remember the results were that more people said the foot stompin' hillbilly made them _less_ likely to buy than more likely.

I was surprised, but I can understand it. A lot of people don't want an instrument to scream "Toy!" at them.

But ... no matter what that poll said, RealiBanjo is our second best seller, and I can't help but think the hillbilly had a major role in that. Sure, lots of people are turned off by him, but he does get attention, and attention leads to sales, so in that particular case, I think it was a net gain.

With Whistlin' Dude, though, he won't attract as much attention, so I don't think he's going to sell more copies like the hillbilly did. He's also not as "in your face," either (this would just be for NI materials, not the GUI), so I suspect he won't _prevent_ many sales, either. So I'm probably overthinking this.

Although ... I could try to make his head bob from side to side with the beat (Kontakt can alway follows tempo, even if the instrument isn't rhythmic), and I could animate his lips as he whistles.

No wonder it takes me years to release anything ...


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## R. Soul (Jun 4, 2021)

I wouldn't pick the first one.
It looks too similar to the Best service one.


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## lucky909091 (Jun 4, 2021)

R. Soul said:


> I wouldn't pick the first one.
> It looks too similar to the Best service one.


Yes, take the second one!


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## propianist (Jun 4, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> ... the reason for this thread, is that some people don't like cartoon graphics on their "professional" instruments....


Don't worry, most people only use "professional" instruments to make Star Wars mockups, and they've already got Baby Yoda's all around their bedroom studio...


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## Alex Niedt (Jun 4, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> My concern, though, and the reason for this thread, is that some people don't like cartoon graphics on their "professional" instruments.


I'm definitely that guy, haha. When I see those graphics, my brain automatically assumes "poor quality product", even though I know you make great stuff, and I think Sunset Strings is fantastic.


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## Toecutter (Jun 4, 2021)

I was going to suggest something based on whistling birds but I'm sure a lot of ppl would assume it's a bird fx library 

The Malabar whistling thrush is majestic





You probably seen the Vienna Whistler artwork?


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## Smikes77 (Jun 4, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> Thank you all for the votes and comments. Although there's no clear winner (for a while it was dead even!), this is really helpful, because at least we know neither is horrible, which is the main thing I wanted to know. (My artistic tastes can be a little weird sometimes, so that's a real concern.)
> 
> Whistlin' Dude (which I like, but wasn't my idea - mine was the emoji) is definitely more fun, as well as more memorable, so I'm kinda leaning that way now. My concern, though, and the reason for this thread, is that some people don't like cartoon graphics on their "professional" instruments. (I intentionally waited for people's first responses before mentioning that, because I didn't want to tilt the scale.)
> 
> ...


I much preferred the cartoon for The Ladies. I thought it fitted the vibe perfectly.


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## pmountford (Jun 5, 2021)

I really am not a fan of the cartoon graphics or animation in a gui and it does put me off buying libraries like this, or atleast forcing a deeper evaluation. But I concede it's crazy really. If anything I suspect it requires more effort and shows more dedication by the developer!
I have the banjo library, which is great, and when I was in the market for one I thought there's not that large a choice for this instrument, so that may have contributed more to its success?


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## R. Soul (Jun 5, 2021)

Yeah, I agree with Alex Niedt and pmountford above.
Cartoony graphics puts me off. So does these super basic graphics like for example Valhalla uses. Not a huge fan of skeumorphic graphics either, but for other reasons.
But cartoony comes across as a bit 'toy-ish' or 'amaturish', which is probably not the vibe you want to portray.


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## RogiervG (Jun 5, 2021)

i don't like both of them. but if i have to choose: the second one


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## MarcusD (Jun 5, 2021)

Second one is better of the two, but also agree with what’s been echoed above.

Some people see cartoon graphics and instantly associate the library has been purposely built for comedy or cartoons. When in fact it’s more versatile than that.


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## propianist (Jun 5, 2021)

I loved the animated cartoon graphics of RealiBanjo, when I first saw it years ago.
It stuck in my memory. It cheers you up and make you wanna play some banjo.
It inspires playfulness.

I thought for 100% sure, come the day whenever I need to buy a dedicated banjo VST, that's the one that I wanna buy, with that cartoon, absolutely no question!

Even if years later I could no longer remember the exact product name or company name, I could still Google search for Banjo VST, search images, and quickly recognize it when I saw it. Stands out a mile from the crowd.

Also I vaguely remembered years ago seeing the same company that sold the animated cartoon Banjo VST also sold a fantastic solo lead trumpet VST with millions of great articulation, which I loved(!) and always knew I wanted to buy one day - but having completely forgotten what the company or product name was, I could just search Google and look for that easy to find animated Banjo plugin, then I've found the weblink for the same company Realitone who also make "Screaming Trumpet" - yep, that's the fantastic trumpet I vaguely remember - which I happily purchased earlier this year when it was on sale.

The world is sadly full of loads of very dull, boring charcoal grey VST's which consume loads of valuable screen real estate area just to waste it filled with an empty, soulless void of lifeless blank grey for an uninspiring GUI with one knob and a couple of sliders.. (cough* Spitfire* cough) so I think the brilliant RealiBanjo cheerful animated cartoon character brings a smile to my face, and makes me happy... (happy I'm not a redneck slowpoke) and that's a magnificent GUI to be very proud of.


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## Drundfunk (Jun 5, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> [...] My concern, though, and the reason for this thread, is that some people don't like cartoon graphics on their "professional" instruments. (I intentionally waited for people's first responses before mentioning that, because I didn't want to tilt the scale.


I'm not sure I'm following this logic tbh. Why would an emoji be an improvement to a cartoon? An emoji is even worse imo. If you had an option C) neither, I'd have voted for this I guess. That being said, I personally don't necessarily dislike cartoon graphics, as long as they are being used for fun and quirky instruments. So for something like a fun whistle library it's kinda okay I guess (I could get used to it, but it would be listed at the very bottom), but I'd never buy a string library with cartoon graphics for example (exception: Something like a Tom & Jerry's cartoon string toolkit or something like that).


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## TeamLeader (Jun 5, 2021)

bottom one is more you Mike!


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## David Cuny (Jun 5, 2021)

Saturday morning, and I've got lots of unasked for opinions to share! Will my not being anything close to a professional designer deter me? Not in the slightest! 

I was going to be more polite about it, but I'll just say it: I _really_ don't like Option #1.

All in all, Option 1 _looks_ like it was done quickly and with less artfully.

The biggest issue is that the yellow on yellow means the emoji doesn't contrast with the busy, busy background. If you're really in love with this, adding a thick border to the emojii would help it stand out. Using flat shading in contrast to the textured background might make the image less busy and easier to read.

Not a fan of the yellow background color at all, but that's hardly objective.

The highlight of the gradient on the sunglasses is right next to the gap between the headphone band and earpiece. So the gap looks like it's part of the sunglasses.

The placement of the headphones indicate where the ears would go. But that conflicts with the placement of the glasses and mouth, which seem to be trying to have the emoji head rotate slightly toward the viewer.

But the glasses are rendered flat (as if they are looking straight toward the viewer), and tilted to give them a 3D look. It looks... wrong.

There are conflicting directions of the light sources - the head is lit over the right shoulder, while the sunglasses indicate it's in the front to the left of the emoji.

The mix of three _different_ effects - the flat look of the headphones, the gradient of the sphere, and the gradient on the glasses - end up clashing with each other.

Option #2 breaks many 3D "rules" as #1 - the rotation of the right foot, the right arm - but as a callback to the rubber hose animation of the 1930's I'm more willing to forgive it. The design here feels intentional, while on #1 the conflicts seem like they're accidental.

Plus, it's well drawn.

But... if I pay to much attention, it _also_ starts to make my head hurt. 

The strobe effect feels out of place (sort of Mr. Natural meets retro 70's effects), and that wipe behind is going in the wrong direction - he'd be moving horizontally, not down. It feels busy, without really adding anything to the design.

Most importantly, the second design looks more _fun_, while the first looks like it was cheaply put together, making me wonder if perhaps the library also failed to get attention to details.


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## AMBi (Jun 5, 2021)




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## Trash Panda (Jun 5, 2021)

propianist said:


> Don't worry, most people only use "professional" instruments to make Star Wars mockups, and they've already got Baby Yoda's all around their bedroom studio...


I feel attacked.


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## alcorey (Jun 5, 2021)

My take


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## David Cuny (Jun 5, 2021)

R. Soul said:


> Cartoony graphics puts me off.


Checks *R. Soul's* avatar. 




... Sorry, couldn't resist! I'll go sit in the corner now.


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## R. Soul (Jun 5, 2021)

David Cuny said:


> Checks *R. Soul's* avatar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know what is really funny?
I don't even like South Park


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## NekujaK (Jun 5, 2021)

​


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## JDK88 (Jun 5, 2021)

When I think "virtual instrument with a cartoon character" RealiBanjo is the first thing that pops in my head. So regardless of what people think about cartoon graphics in their virtual instruments, it's good for marketing.


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## Tralen (Jun 5, 2021)

Hello, everyone. I'm a painter and decided to take a shot at this. Here is my attempt:


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## Mike Greene (Jun 6, 2021)

Tralen said:


> Hello, everyone. I'm a painter and decided to take a shot at this. Here is my attempt:


Wow, that's really cool! I think it might cause confusion with the Realivox Ladies (this stuff gets complicated with all the factors that have to be considered), but it's so cool that it's worthy of a free library anyway, so send me an email at mike at realione and let me know which one you want.


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## Mike Greene (Jun 6, 2021)

I think we're going to go with the Whistlin' Dude. That seems to be the most popular option, and although some people don't like cartoon graphics, there's never a _perfect_ choice, so the input everyone gave here has been really valuable in figuring out what our best (least bad?  ) option would be. Thank you!


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## chillbot (Jun 6, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> it's so cool that it's worthy of a free library anyway, so send me an email at mike at realione and let me know which one you want.


Wow Mike that's really generous! I hereby submit my artwork to be considered for the RealiWhistle™ logo and will accept a copy of Sunset Strings in return. Thanks again!!


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## el-bo (Jun 6, 2021)

I don't mind cartoon graphics, at all. But I think my issue with the second option is that it's not as bold as the first. If cartoon-dude's head were zoomed-in, for instance, it would be a much bolder statement, while not losing the charm of the character.


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## Trash Panda (Jun 6, 2021)

Will true legato be added as part of the update and will there be an NI Store super bundle to celebrate the release?


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## Saxer (Jun 6, 2021)




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## kgdrum (Jun 6, 2021)

Saxer said:


>


Even though this is a late entry,this is definitely my favorite of them ALL! 😘


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## Mike Greene (Jun 6, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> Even though this is a late entry,this is definitely my favorite of them ALL! 😘


I'm so used to doing knockoffs for commercials and cues (only been sued once!), that I actually started looking at this and wondering how close I could get without getting in trouble. 

Sadly, I think the answer is _"Not close enough to be worth it."_


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## Marsen (Jun 6, 2021)

I do have RealiBanjo and do like the cowboy. 
So the second one with a hat?


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## Tralen (Jun 6, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> Wow, that's really cool! I think it might cause confusion with the Realivox Ladies (this stuff gets complicated with all the factors that have to be considered), but it's so cool that it's worthy of a free library anyway, so send me an email at mike at realione and let me know which one you want.


Thanks a lot, Mike!


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## kgdrum (Jun 6, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> I'm so used to doing knockoffs for commercials and cues (only been sued once!), that I actually started looking at this and wondering how close I could get without getting in trouble.
> 
> Sadly, I think the answer is _"Not close enough to be worth it."_


That’s a good point,if my memory serves correct is that a masterpiece from one of my all time favorite artists of the early 20th Century,Max Fleischer ?
If so is it old enough for the copyright to have expired and be public domain ? I don’t know if this applies to media/animations etc……but I suspect it’s it’s pretty old.
Obviously I don’t want you to expose yourself to potential lawsuits but what an animation!
Betty Boop,Popeye,was it Coco the inkwell clown etc………..
For me he was an absolute artistic genius!


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## kgdrum (Jun 6, 2021)

* update *

it wasn’t Fliescher but the early Felix the Cat are public domain,they were created around 1918.

*Felix the Cat/Creators*

Pat Sullivan
Otto Messmer
Joe Oriolo

See here :

Is felix the cat in the public domain?

First, before you put him in your gritty reboot/reimagining with pirate robots, you must be aware that only the very, very early *Felix* silent cartoons are *public domain*. Most of the pop-culture presence the character has today dates not from those early cartoons, but from a TV series from the 1950s.Jan 9, 2015




https://catflag.wordpress.com › thin...
https://catflag.wordpress.com/2015/01/09/things-you-wont-believe-are-or-arent-copyrighted/ (Things You Won't Believe Are (or Aren't) Copyrighted | Cat Flag)​

*Not Copyrighted: Felix the Cat**





*Though there are a few strings attached.

*Felix the Cat has been around for a very long time. Long enough, in fact, that the copyright has expired on his earliest cartoons. You can watch or download one of them here. Here’s another. Here, have a third.*

Having said that, there are a few things you need to know before you go hog-wild on Felix the Cat. First, before you put him in your gritty reboot/reimagining with pirate robots, you must be aware that only the very, very early Felix silent cartoons are public domain. Most of the pop-culture presence the character has today dates not from those early cartoons, but from a TV series from the 1950s. Felix’s voice, the characters he hangs around during his misadventures, and his “Magic Bag of Tricks” that he uses to get out of any jam all come from the TV show. You guessed it, that TV show is still copyrighted, and off-limits.

Second, DreamWorks took out a trademark on Felix in 2007. The trademark covers DVDs, CDs, and various types of electronic devices such as cameras, camcorders, audio recording equipment, and data storage devices. It looks like DreamWorks is planning to make some Felix-branded devices for making and distributing digital media. The trademark also gives DreamWorks exclusive right to distribute DVDs, CDs, and TV compilation shows containing old Felix cartoons. Also, the trademark covers guitars. For some reason. If you want to do anything with Felix, you need to be mindful of these restrictions so you don’t violate DreamWorks’s rights and end up in court.


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## David Cuny (Jun 7, 2021)

Well, that design for Felix is the 1953 Joe Oriolo version, so I'm sure it's still under copyright.

Love the "double bounce" animation!

The good news is that since that article was posted in 2015, "Happy Birthday" was ruled to be in the public domain.


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## Mike Greene (Jun 7, 2021)

That's interesting about Felix the Cat. The earlier drawings are pretty different from what we're used to, although that first cartoon is the Felix we're used to. But ... the date on that one is 1930, which makes me question how sure these guys are that the first cartoon is really public domain, since the PD cutoff before the copyright act of 1998 was 1923.

What made Felix's whistling cool was the animation (static Felix wouldn't be as interesting) which NI won't take, so we've already submitted whistler dude. This may be useful later, though, and I appreciate the info, so send me an email (that same tricky mike at realitone address) and I'll hook you up with whatever library you want.


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## jbuhler (Jun 8, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> That's interesting about Felix the Cat. The earlier drawings are pretty different from what we're used to, although that first cartoon is the Felix we're used to. But ... the date on that one is 1930, which makes me question how sure these guys are that the first cartoon is really public domain, since the PD cutoff before the copyright act of 1998 was 1923.
> 
> What made Felix's whistling cool was the animation (static Felix wouldn't be as interesting) which NI won't take, so we've already submitted whistler dude. This may be useful later, though, and I appreciate the info, so send me an email (that same tricky mike at realitone address) and I'll hook you up with whatever library you want.


The date recently started moving again on US copyrights. I believe anything published in 1925 and before is now in the public domain.


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## Mike Greene (Jun 8, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> The date recently started moving again on US copyrights. I believe anything published in 1925 and before is now in the public domain.


You're right, I forgot about that, although I think that post for works after 1923, it's now more complicated than the simple "75-years" that the copyright term used to be. Now you have to look at when the composer died or some other factors to determine the copyright expiration.


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## jbuhler (Jun 8, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> You're right, I forgot about that, although I think that post for works after 1923, it's now more complicated than the simple "75-years" that the copyright term used to be. Now you have to look at when the composer died or some other factors to determine the copyright expiration.


The copyright period is 95 years for works published between 1923-1963, different rules apply for works copyrighted between 1964-1977, and different rules still for works created and published after 1978. Works made after 1978 are the ones that qualify for life plus 70. But works for hire are covered for 95 years if published, and 120 years if unpublished. Recordings have different rules, and they are a mess if published before 1972, because they fall under state law. As far as I can tell you can't now be guaranteed any recording is out of copyright until 2067.


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## Mike Greene (Jun 9, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> The copyright period is 95 years for works published between 1923-1963


Oh! That's good to know.


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