# Check this composer out- never heard of him but he kicks a$$



## dcoscina (Nov 14, 2009)

http://moviescoremedia.com/redcanvas.html

I'll let his music speak for itself. I like it though. A lot.


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## IvanP (Nov 15, 2009)

James Peterson :mrgreen: 

We met this year in Spain, he received an award for his music... really a great guy, awesome talent, one of the future top composers for sure 

There are some great talents coming over in the next few years...


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## dcoscina (Nov 15, 2009)

Yes indeed.


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## dcoscina (Nov 15, 2009)

Good points John. I dont think it's an innovative score but just darn well written


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## IvanP (Nov 15, 2009)

IMHO, I got to see a few clips and I found it to be was very powerful on screen, even more than the music itself...it made the picture really BIG

A total different approach than, let's say, Marianelli or Alberto Iglesias, of course...but I thought it worked fine nonetheless...


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## dcoscina (Nov 15, 2009)

Does anyone notice how it sounds like williams' Lost World theme he way it has major chordal movement around a static pedal in th low strings. Neat. Williams' theme itself was ecocative of Miklos roszas seminal work so it's not like Peterson is ripping him off per se. I think the muscularity of this writig is striking.


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## James Peterson (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi David,

1. Compositional Process. Let me begin by saying that I didn't really ever get locked picture. It was constantly changing. My original request was to have 10 weeks to write this score given its magnitude. When all was said and done it was completed in a little over 3 weeks of very hard work. The film makers are to this day making changes to the film which will result in unknown changes to the music again. I have told them that I want to make sure the score is in good shape and revise if necessary for its theatrical release. I am happy with the Movie Score Media released version of the score. I am not sure it will be the same in the final version of the movie if and when it is released. 

I use two programs. Sibelius and Logic. I use both just about equally. My initial ideas are carved out on a piano or on the sequencer just to get a feel for what the music is going to be. I always keep the score page open in Logic as I am working because it makes me feel more comfortable. My preferred place for the real writing process is Sibelius. Mockups are done in Logic with the usual sample library suspects. (I use Euphonix controllers which really speed up workflow). I am most comfortable on the score page and so that's where I live. I wish there were Eucon controls for Sibelius. I am going to write Euphonix about it.

I studied music education at UCLA and in addition to my composing career I am currently on the music faculty at Santa Monica College where I teach music appreciation. While in school I arranged for the bands and wind ensembles. I am a trumpet player and studied composition privately and independently throughout the years. I credit UCLA music theory program for my grounding in harmony and counterpoint. I had some great teachers there including David Raksin. 

I also listen A LOT. I like music from the greats: Bach, Bartok, Barber, Copland, Harris, Hindemith, Stravinsky as well as the "real" film composers who can actually write and are properly trained not illiterate rock musicians who hum their scores to trained orchestrators. I think it is probably obvious who I mean by this and the devastating impact they have had on film music's greatness. We are in a sad sad time for film music. And people are starting to realize it. Thank God. All of us can work to make the change we want to see in the world (thanks to Gandhi for that one)

2. Both of the directors are musicians and were open to the big orchestral sound. The Miklos Rozsa references in the score were a kind of musical "joke"for me and a generous loving homage to one of my favorite composers. The film is about fighters (like gladiators of sorts) and that motive plays their entrance to the stadium to brawl. I thought wouldn't it be cool to tip my hat to Ben Hur because I knew there would be people out there who would get it. : )

3. I am American born in Los Angeles, educated at UCLA and live and work in Santa Monica.


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## dcoscina (Nov 16, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback James. I got your PM too BTW so I'll get the ball rolling in that regard.

I Appreciate your in depth answers to me questions. Very informative but I would say your philosophy is consistent with the quality of music I hear on The Red Canvas and I wholeheartdly agree.


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 16, 2009)

Some really nice work there James. And welcome to VI!


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## johncarter (Nov 16, 2009)

James Peterson @ Mon Nov 16 said:


> the "real" film composers who can actually write and are properly trained not illiterate rock musicians who hum their scores to trained orchestrators.



At least , the illiterate rock musicians know how to write memorable and simple melodies   The big artillery isnt always the best thing ! 

I think the above quote wasn't necessary . Guys like Zimmer or Elfman are not "hummers". Maybe they got a bit lazy lately, but at the peak of their career they really wrote most of their scores and MANY masterpieces came from these rock guys. The trained orchestrators often used in these scores never made a decent solo career... that means a lot of thing to me. Like for instance they're not as important in the success of these scores as some people think


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## dcoscina (Nov 17, 2009)

Who says he was talking about Zimmer or Elfman?

I also don't agree with the whole masterpiece line either. If these so-called no name or orchestrators who never had their own career didn't help out these "masters" of film scoring their music would not see the light of day or else it wid sound like a mess. It's not just ignorant to put down the skill and hard work these orchestrators bring to each project- it's downright disrespectful.


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## dcoscina (Nov 17, 2009)

As much as I enjoy Elfmans music, he's been singing the same story forever and it sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder. It's obvious he's getting work and he's highly revered so I'm not sure why he continues with this unless it's because he hasn't been awarded an Oscar. Well Danny neither has Thomas Newman and he's been doing it just as long as you have.

The other thing the seems to slip past the radar regarding hee rock musicians is who wrote what?in elfman's case, Shirley walker (God rest her soul) did alot for his Batman. She also did much work on zimmer's early forays into orchestral music like Backdraft and Radio Flyer. It gets down to who wrote what. Whether you guys at to admit it or not, ghost writing is prevelant in these cases and everyone in the Hollywood system knows it. Which is why I respect guys like Goldenthal, Shore, Yared, silvestri, shearmur, shire, of course Williams, Chris Gordon, lalo schifrin, and James Peterson- because I know the music that I hear is THEIR VISION, THEIR VOICE, not a proverbial stew made by a half dozen cooks.

But I'm sure some of you pragmatic chaps don't care. To you it's the end result that matters and that's fine I guess. Just don't shove this credo of the romanticized idea that the untrained guys are so much better than the people who dedicate themselves to the craft of music. I cannot swallow that BS.


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## johncarter (Nov 17, 2009)

Sorry but what you say about ghostwriting is based on what ? 

I mean, listen to every zimmer scores from 90 to nowadays. There's a touch. A personal touch that you find in every scores he has written. But, if you read the credits, a lot of different orchestrators worked for him. Yet, His main orchestrator is Bruce Fowler... again if you listen to Bruce solo scores, you hear nothing that reach the level of a Zimmer score ! 

Same thing of Conrad pope, listen to his solo efforts... it sounds like a carbon copy of a Star Wars score, without the inspiration.


I'm not trying to underestimate the work of the trained orchestrators, which's amazing and necessary. But I never heard a "illiterate rock musician" blaming a classical trained musician. It's always the other way around. Some kind of "music elitists" always want 
to blame the self-taught musician..


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## Franco904 (Nov 17, 2009)

Hans Zimmer is a Great composer and very kind, he is helping ou young composers, respect the man.


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## dcoscina (Nov 17, 2009)

John, I don't want to take this thread off track too much because everyone knows my position on these matters. The only thing I was saying is that it's not a clear picture when it comes to the involvement of help for getting a film score out into the public. In Williams' case, he delivers such detailed short scores that the orchestrator acts merely as a glorified copyist. In the case of less competent orchestral composers, there is much more input required from the orchestrators. 

John Williams gave a talk at USC a few years ago and he said that he admittedly was not that comfortable around computers, samplers, electronics and the like. He gets programmers to assist in the creation of the sounds and their application. So why is it so hard for self trained rock guys to acknowledge that they DO NOT do it all themselves? turn about is fair play IMO. 

Getting back on topic here, it's not the training that necessarily yields a terrific or even original composer- I grant you that. But, someone with latent talent and a natural affinity for music that has also received formal training is that much more powerful than the guy with the predisposition toward it. It's like martial arts. There are millions of people who study but only a small pecentage who are really good fighters- and they probably would be without the training but coupled with it, they are even more capable.

What I like about Peterson's work in this case is not only his confidence with the orchestra but his overall architecture of the score. There are a few central ideas and themes that he chops up, varies, and re-arranges throughout the score. We all know that introducing an musical idea and developing it will ultimately serve the film better because it lends a sense of dramatic and emotional cohesion to the score. this aids the film as much as some people here believe it's just indulgence on the part of the composer. But it is this defining musical idea that binds the music, and film, together. Scores that have a lot of unrelated incidental cues feel scattershot because the audience cannot make any connection to what's happening in the linear sense of narrative development. If you listen to any of the classic scores of even WIlliams or Goldsmith, you will hear how they manipulate their key themes in incidental cues so that the voice of their score is omnipresent. I'm not saying the training will always lead to this but when someone studies a 2 hour long Mahler symphony and uncovers the inherent structure, that can give them tools to compose better themselves.

Elfman differs from Zimmer in my book. He has learned through doing. And his influences were giants like Herrmann and Prokofiev. Not bad composers to look to in my books. Elfman has actually become a very solid composer to the point where he composed a concert work Serenada Schizophrana, which is delightful and self contained.


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## Hannes_F (Nov 17, 2009)

You guys are funny. First you are all over his music and want to know his background and opinions and when he comes here and tells his thoughts you bash him instead of trying to understand what he really meant and accept it as his opinion. 

Not everybody has to agree to everything and to every opinion that is expressed there may be a counterexample. This training vs. non-training topic is loaded with emotions obviously, otherwise it would not trigger the same reactions over and over. What about calming down and being more friendly to a guest?

Cheers everybody o-[][]-o and welcome James to a forum that usually is a great place.


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## dcoscina (Nov 17, 2009)

Thank you Hannes.


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## kdm (Nov 17, 2009)

James - excellent work - really enjoyed the clips I heard. 

- Dedric


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## James Peterson (Nov 17, 2009)

Can't a guy vent a bit. I did not choose my words wisely and I apologize if I offended anyone here. Not my intention. I expressed one line of frustration in my post and look what happens. Dissent is a good thing last I heard. 

Do Not Assume I was talking about Danny Elfman or Hans Zimmer. You don't know me or my opinions.

For the Record: I LOVE Danny Elfman. I grew up listening to Oingo Boingo. I LOVE many of his scores...Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Beetlejuice are amongst my favorite scores from any composer. He's great and creative.

For the Record. Hans Zimmer has produced some fantastic scores. He is a truly nice guy and has helped A LOT of people. I would be honored to work with him.

All best,

James Peterson


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## James Peterson (Nov 17, 2009)

Yes. There is True Strike on The Red Canvas. All of the percussion on the recording is True Strike. I find I get better results mixing sample perc with live orchestra. More control over performance and mix without the mic bleed nightmare I have experienced with live percussion.

I really like Marilyn Manson and that opening bell like theme in Resident Evil is SUPER cool.

I think that the perception that you either like "classical" or "rock" and that they are mutually exclusive is a fallacy.


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## gsilbers (Nov 17, 2009)

James Peterson @ Mon Nov 16 said:


> the "real" film composers who can actually write and are properly trained not illiterate rock musicians who hum their scores to trained orchestrators.



crap, youve discovered my secret!! :lol: 


so you do your "sequencer writing" inside the score editor in logic? thats cool. 
how do you deal with your template? or how is your template set up.. if any or do u start from scratch?


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## JohnG (Nov 17, 2009)

Some relevant thoughts from another forum member, poseur, who talks about the balance between knowledge and "that certain something."

Poseur writes:

"reading, writing and their ability to speed 
attendant analysis skills are important, 
are certainly key & helpful..... 
..... but, i think that developing one's ears 
via focused listening, playing & occasionally brutal 
self-criticism remains important, too. 

"maybe we can can gain much by remembering this: 
maybe it can bring us closer to stronger internalisations 
of core musical concepts: 
harmony, melody, rhythm, arr & orch: 
over and above intellectualised analyses, 
which certainly can lead to the lionisation of the 
analytical approaches at the cost of something dear 
to the root-impulse to create works of un-prefabricated 
feeling. 

"that said, 
i read & write, & still have some cause to sight-read..... under pressure, with the red-light on. 

"it might be seen as important that our paths 
are founded on the bases of the creation of original works, 
sincere works that offer 
our own personal viewpoints and perspectives; 
i think it can be dangerous to suggest that 
good composition absolutely requires reading & writing, 
first & foremost: 
i don't believe that the basic, childlike impulse to compose should be overlooked as an absolutely primary factor 
worthy of work & development. 

"i also think that any instrument that one plays well 
--- the more, the merrier --- 
can, indeed, be folded into the approach through 
which we compose, 
and can thereby enrich both our understanding 
of our own writing, as well as its reach & potential: 
i suggest continuing to use those instruments in one's compositional flow, and pursuing them. 

"unlike many, 
i don't believe there's a fundamental problem 
with composing-by-ear..... 
if, 
a) you're increasing the capacity of your ear, and 
b) you simultaneously develop various methods of 
intra-musical communication..... 
..... including (but, not limited-to) reading & writing. 

..... seems like what's primary to music of value is that 
1) we actually have something to say, and 
3) we can say it. 

"so, yeah: 
do learn to read & write, so that you can study & analyse scores, & cmprehend harmony & rhythm..... 
but, listen more & with greater concentration, 
sing more melodies (alone, without any instrument to hand), and continue to play all your instruments 
with musical vigor: 
internalise the feelings of 
isolated pieces of music. 
everything you learn 
--- no matter how, or in what chronological order --- 
it's all important. 

sorry for the potentially useless babble; 
i'm tired..... 

d"


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## dcoscina (Nov 17, 2009)

Great post John.


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## James Peterson (Nov 17, 2009)

gsilbers @ Tue Nov 17 said:


> James Peterson @ Mon Nov 16 said:
> 
> 
> > the "real" film composers who can actually write and are properly trained not illiterate rock musicians who hum their scores to trained orchestrators.
> ...




I use two 30 inch Apple Cinema Displays in my rig so I can see the arrange window on one, the mixer below it and a full score page on the second display. Once you have two large displays you'll wonder how you got by without them.

As far as templates go I usually start from scratch and then create a specific template on a per project basis. Every score is pretty different so I find it most efficient to wait see what it is going to be.


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## dcoscina (Nov 17, 2009)

Nice. I have two 22" monitors and I agree that separating the arrange and notation windows in imperative. I use DP but the same rules applies.


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## bryla (Nov 17, 2009)

dcoscina @ Tue Nov 17 said:


> ...Which is why I respect guys like ... silvestri,...- because I know the music that I hear is THEIR VISION, THEIR VOICE, not a proverbial stew made by a half dozen cooks.


yeah right.... ever heard of Bill Ross?


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## synergy543 (Nov 17, 2009)

Hannes_F @ Tue Nov 17 said:


> You guys are funny. First you are all over his music and want to know his background and opinions and when he comes here and tells his thoughts you bash him instead of trying to understand what he really meant and accept it as his opinion


Yeah, really interesting responses before-and-after "the man of mystery" revealed himself. There is an interesting thread related to this topic over on gearslutz called The "Real" Killer of Music.. Its kind of long but they touch on the aspect of an artists appeal being partly the "unknowable mystique". Well James, glad you're a strong enough artist to throw yourself to the vi-wolves and survive. Thanks for sticking around and sharing your thoughts.

*Questions*: 

1. So if I understand correctly, your composition process is three steps, 1) sketching ideas on paper, 2) orchestrating in Sibelius, 3) realizing in Logic. Certainly this process is rather time-consuming although you must find the results worth the effort. So what tips (or snags) do you have regarding this process? And how well integrated is it? For example, is it a linear process (do you complete the Sibelius score before moving over to Logic?) or an interactive one where you keep Sibelius open and continue to edit and make changes to the score while you're realizing the mockup in Logic?

2. In addition, you say that you're mixing samples with live orchestral recordings. That sounds like quite a tedious editing process. Do you replace entire orchestral stems or are you syncing up click tracks and audio wavs and time-aligning the samples with recorded material?

Sorry if my questions are confusing but I don't know how to ask simply.


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## Niah (Nov 17, 2009)

Hey but look at the bright side greg, at least we don't have many NS-sheep :mrgreen: 

besides they are so darn cute :lol: 

http://aprilwine.files.wordpress.com/20 ... owolve.jpg


but anyways you peeked my curiosity about that GS thread, I'll look into it.


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## synergy543 (Nov 17, 2009)

Niah @ Tue Nov 17 said:


> Hey but look at the bright side greg, at least we don't have many NS-sheep :mrgreen:


I can't de'Niah your point, but do you have to be so obvious?


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## Niah (Nov 17, 2009)

ahahhahaa :lol: 

man that was genious ! great photo :mrgreen:


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## dcoscina (Nov 17, 2009)

here's a link to a lengthy cue for more enjoyment
I friggin love this music. I'm like a little kid after hearing Star Wars for the first time again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Zborrjv94


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## James Peterson (Nov 17, 2009)

1. So if I understand correctly, your composition process is three steps, 1) sketching ideas on paper, 2) orchestrating in Sibelius, 3) realizing in Logic. Certainly this process is rather time-consuming although you must find the results worth the effort. So what tips (or snags) do you have regarding this process? And how well integrated is it? For example, is it a linear process (do you complete the Sibelius score before moving over to Logic?) or an interactive one where you keep Sibelius open and continue to edit and make changes to the score while you're realizing the mockup in Logic?

2. In addition, you say that you're mixing samples with live orchestral recordings. That sounds like quite a tedious editing process. Do you replace entire orchestral stems or are you syncing up click tracks and audio wavs and time-aligning the samples with recorded material?

Sorry if my questions are confusing but I don't know how to ask simply.[/quote]

Actually I no longer write on paper except if I am at a piano away from the studio and I just want to jot something down (pretty rare occurrence for me these days). Ideas start on the piano (real or sampled) move to basic sequences then to more elaborate sequences to flesh it out a bit more (like the interactive approach you pose in your question). I will quantize all of this material for easy midi import into Sibelius. Once it's in Sibelius and I can really see it, I realize how much is missing and/or what is overdone/underdone and this is where the detail work comes. This is where you can actually see if your voice leading is correct and how well your counterpoint is working. Things like blend and balance that you can never hear on a sequencer are all right there in front of your eyes/ears. I find that there is a lot of detail work here that actually never makes it back into the mock up. You can "fake" a lot of stuff in a mockup and it means the same thing sonically to a director. You obviously want your mockup to sound as close as possible to the orchestral recording and a good director will know that things will only get better. : )

Regarding mixing samples with live orchestra. So far the only samples that I like to use with the orchestra are percussion sample libraries. They sound great! I am hesitant to use much "synth" stuff because I think it really dates scores. 

I perform the sampled percussion tracks against the edited live orchestral performance. I work with engineers to mix and master the final materials. There is so much Pro Tools editing required for live scores in my experience that these overdubs don't seem to make that much difference to the overall workflow. I only had three weeks to write the score to meet the recording date. There was about 2 weeks of editing and overdubs. Crazy.


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## synergy543 (Nov 17, 2009)

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## Guy Bacos (Nov 19, 2009)

Wow, so many great composers out there.


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## Hal (Nov 19, 2009)

Hannes_F @ Wed Nov 18 said:


> dcoscina @ Tue Nov 17 said:
> 
> 
> > here's a link to a lengthy cue for more enjoyment
> ...



i havent seen the movie but i feel like the music is ten times better then the the movie
GREAT track


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## dcoscina (Nov 19, 2009)

actually the reviews for the film have been okay too...in spite of the generic trailers


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