# Confused with DAW's



## ein fisch (Feb 23, 2018)

Hello Friends.

I've been looking in every forum on the internet and the opinions on what DAW to choose are different. Each got its pros and cons.

But now, as im looking forward to go study music for film and media, i heard pro tools is still kind of the "industry standard" as soon as youre becoming a professional composer. Im producing / composing with FL studio for around 6 years, and i also like it very much. i felt so hard in love with its piano roll, vocodex, harmor, and just its workflow in general. Also im quite sure im able to get a proper mix with it, no matter if its EDM or orchestral. Also alot of "cons" pedople are mentioning about FL i found my little hacks to get it working anyways.


My question is: will professional mixing engineers, film composers or sounddesigners laugh at me sooner or later when im using FL as a professional? Yes, i would jump over to pro tools if Fl is a no-go, but i really really really dont want to!

in other words: would you for example mix/master a track or record vocals in a studio where you see fl studio on the screen?

Hope any professional musican can help me with this.


Greetings,
Dennis


EDIT: and of course i know, lots of professionals are using logic, cubase and DP, but to be honest i never saw a big guy using FL, so im just scared guys who use fl are considered noobs


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## Red (Feb 23, 2018)

Not that they're noobs, FL lacks functions that will be vital to the process.

I'm not gonna say it's impossible to score films in FL, but switch to Logic or Cubase to make your life easier. (If not, just to get assistant jobs)

Protools is for deliveries. I don't play golf but I guess it's like a putter? Composing on PT would be a nightmare. Like trying to drive with a putter?
Again, not a golfer.

So yeah. Logic or Cubase, Protools, and a notation software (Sibelius) are the very basic software knowledge you'd need.


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## d.healey (Feb 23, 2018)

Use whatever you know how to use and you will be fine. Mike Verta composes with Pro-Tools and his work is awesome, Blake Robinson composes in FL and his work is awesome, Zimmer uses Cubase and his work is awesome, Elfman uses digital performer and his work is awesome, John Williams uses a pencil and his work is awesome - you get the idea?


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## Begfred (Feb 23, 2018)

Learning Pro Tools is useful to work in the industry. 

I know PT but only use it for delevering stems and for the main project containing all the music cues in a long format movie.

Since you already know FL i'd say use it. I don't know FL but frankly I don't see what could be missing from other DAWs.
They all have one or two cool features that are unique but they all have the essential tools to do a professional job.
Maybe someone else could say what is missing in FL...

If you where not familiar with any DAWs i would say : if you're on PC go Cubase, on mac, go Logic. Of course DP is great to, specially for scoring, and Reaper ...well I think it could be the best one if you want to spend time to tweak for your need. I prefer spending more time doing music.


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## ein fisch (Feb 23, 2018)

Red said:


> Not that they're noobs, FL lacks functions that will be vital to the process.
> 
> I'm not gonna say it's impossible to score films in FL, but switch to Logic or Cubase to make your life easier. (If not, just to get assistant jobs)
> 
> ...



Wow thanks for the fast reply.

I was using Logic for about a month, then went back to FL trough bootcamp because the piano roll and sample browser of logic was a nightmare to me. also i became a big fan of manipulating vocal chops / vocoding, and i was told i wont find anything better than vocodex out there - i dont know if this is true. Logic was just killing my inspiration when i had a melody in my head and needed ages to program it. I know theres a learning curve in every daw, but there are also lots of long-time Logic users telling me that it can be a pain sometimes. If i spend years learning a DAW and still have problems (some even say logic's multiprocessing is bad), that'll just be frustrating. Sibelius, of course, im using beside FL.

I guess i will wait what other Users have to say.


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## kimarnesen (Feb 23, 2018)

The main reason I don't use FL Studio is because I haven't managed to get Vienna Ensemble Pro to work on it, and it seems like most ppl haven't either. So that means you can't use a slave machine to run your libraries from, and thus it gets almost impossible to run large templates.


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## ein fisch (Feb 23, 2018)

d.healey said:


> Use whatever you know how to use and you will be fine. Mike Verta composes with Pro-Tools and his work is awesome, Blake Robinson composes in FL and his work is awesome, Zimmer uses Cubase and his work is awesome, Elfman uses digital performer and his work is awesome, John Williams uses a pencil and his work is awesome - you get the idea?



Wait, i thought Zimmer is using DP? I think i got your point, thanks for your opinion. But im mainly worried about my Image in the Industry - using FL Studio. Im sure, i can get sweet tunes out of it.




Begfred said:


> Learning Pro Tools is useful to work in the industry.
> 
> I know PT but only use it for delevering stems and for the main project containing all the music cues in a long format movie.
> 
> ...



Couldnt agree more with you on the last one. I hate tweaking around for hours in a moment of inspiration. What i know so far is, that you cant really change the time signature trough automation in FL. There are a couple workarounds but im sure logic is way better in that regard. Some also say FL offers bad MIDI routing functions. I cant speak for other daws but when you finally got used to it you can really speed up that process with various shortcuts and workarounds.

Another thing i really love with FL is the easy to use sample browser (the one in logic is seriously a joke)

Logic offers more functions than fl - in a way more complicated way. FL gives you the basics but you can have sick workflow.




I'll take it. Will probably grab Pro Tools as my Mixing-DAW then. Not sure yet if its really necessary to change from FL to another DAW for scoring. If so i would love to make the right choice. Thanks all. Feel free to post further replies, and make sure to mention the DAW youre using


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## d.healey (Feb 23, 2018)

DennisL said:


> But im mainly worried about my Image in the Industry


If you want respect then pencil and paper and a real orchestra is the way to go 

If you want to write music quickly and efficiently use the tool that you know


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## august80 (Feb 23, 2018)

DennisL said:


> Wait, i thought Zimmer is using DP?
> I think i got your point, thanks for your opinion. But im mainly worried about my Image in the Industry - using FL Studio. Im sure, i can get sweet tunes out of it.



Nah - he's been on Cubase forever. His whole Remote Control facility is basically Windows & Cubase.

Don't concern yourself with 'image in the industry'. You'll never satisfy everyone's irrational expectations of what is the wrong / right way of doing things. Be concerned with doing good work that means something to you...and pick the best tools FOR YOU to make that happen. Witnessed countless composers jump through hoops trying to satisfy people's expectations (the 'right' equipment, the 'right' DAW, the 'right' city to work in, the 'right' people to work with, etc....and become miserable in the process, because their choices aren't artistic, they are utilitarian. And their music usually reflects that.

You learn very quickly that if you are reliable and consistently writing good music, the people your working for will not give a flying **** what tools you're using. Your jealous colleagues will of course say you're doing everything wrong. Hehe.


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## chrisphan (Feb 23, 2018)

I don't know about FL sequencing capability, but it sure has some of the most creative stock synths eg Harmor


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## ein fisch (Feb 24, 2018)

august80 said:


> Nah - he's been on Cubase forever. His whole Remote Control facility is basically Windows & Cubase.
> 
> Don't concern yourself with 'image in the industry'. You'll never satisfy everyone's irrational expectations of what is the wrong / right way of doing things. Be concerned with doing good work that means something to you...and pick the best tools FOR YOU to make that happen. Witnessed countless composers jump through hoops trying to satisfy people's expectations (the 'right' equipment, the 'right' DAW, the 'right' city to work in, the 'right' people to work with, etc....and become miserable in the process, because their choices aren't artistic, they are utilitarian. And their music usually reflects that.
> 
> You learn very quickly that if you are reliable and consistently writing good music, the people your working for will not give a flying **** what tools you're using. Your jealous colleagues will of course say you're doing everything wrong. Hehe.



Gold! Ill keep that in mind, thanks for those wise words. I will keep it going with FL. But im considering to workout some kind of Combination for workflow and proper mix. E.G compose with FL, always bounce my stuff to audio and then arrange/mix it in Pro Tools. I dont see any Problem with that so far except the extra 700$ for PT.


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## Nite Sun (Feb 24, 2018)

I also found my love of composing through FL Studio and to this day it still gives me greater sense of freedom than any other DAW or tool i've used. I guess it's my mother tongue. However now that I'm focusing on film composition i'm mainly using Cubase. Cubase (and Logic) lead the way when it comes to big orchestral templates, performance/reliability and complex video scoring tasks. FL studio falls completely short in this regard IMO. So I would say that if you are planning to master the art of MIDI mockups and film scoring with lots of sample libraries then learn Cubase or Logic. If you're not particularly interested in this quasi-orchestral approach then stick with FL studio. But why not learn something new? It'll only help in the long run. What I often do is combine Cubase and FL studio with ReWire to get the best of both worlds.


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## paulmatthew (Feb 24, 2018)

d.healey said:


> Use whatever you know how to use and you will be fine. Mike Verta composes with Pro-Tools and his work is awesome, Blake Robinson composes in FL and his work is awesome, Zimmer uses Cubase and his work is awesome, Elfman uses digital performer and his work is awesome, John Williams uses a pencil and his work is awesome - you get the idea?


Best response to the DAW question I've ever heard.


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## KV626 (Feb 24, 2018)

Red said:


> Protools is for deliveries. I don't play golf but I guess it's like a putter? Composing on PT would be a nightmare. Like trying to drive with a putter?



Maybe a nightmare for you, for me it's more like a dream to compose in Pro Tools. It never (or very rarely ) "gets in my way" and I can concentrate on _making music_. Also using LPX and, sadly, DP. Whatever works best for us, as always.


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## khollister (Feb 24, 2018)

All good advice to use whatever works for you as a composer. However, assuming you are studying to become a composer, not an engineer, do not feel obligated to purchase and/or learn Pro Tools at this point. While PT may be ubiquitous in mix down and mastering, that is not your primary field of focus. If you are bound and determined to "learn an industry standard DAW" pick LPX or Cubase and go for it. I suspect the majority of professional film composers are on one of those 2 platforms with DP bringing up 3rd place. But there are plenty of talented folks turning out great work with Reaper, Sonar, FL and other less mainstream tools.


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## Quasar (Feb 24, 2018)

Reaper is the one true DAW. All other DAWs are false tools, the work of the devil, and their users are condemned to everlasting hell... 

More seriously, I am aware that Blake Robinson uses FL Studio and his orchestral stuff sounds superb, at least to me. And I've always heard that the piano roll in FL is peerless, so I've kept it in the back of my mind to check it out one day, even though Reaper is the only DAW I've ever learned how to use with any degree of competency, and in my case the critical customization stuff is essentially done, so I can just do the most basic things without thinking about it. But the MIDI side of Reaper never seems to get the same attention as the the audio side, and a few things about the ME continue to frustrate me.

Maybe use a cheap version of FL as an external MIDI editor in Reaper? Is this possible?


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## InLight-Tone (Mar 23, 2018)

Quasar said:


> Reaper is the one true DAW. All other DAWs are false tools, the work of the devil, and their users are condemned to everlasting hell...
> 
> More seriously, I am aware that Blake Robinson uses FL Studio and his orchestral stuff sounds superb, at least to me. And I've always heard that the piano roll in FL is peerless, so I've kept it in the back of my mind to check it out one day, even though Reaper is the only DAW I've ever learned how to use with any degree of competency, and in my case the critical customization stuff is essentially done, so I can just do the most basic things without thinking about it. But the MIDI side of Reaper never seems to get the same attention as the the audio side, and a few things about the ME continue to frustrate me.
> 
> Maybe use a cheap version of FL as an external MIDI editor in Reaper? Is this possible?


You can use FL Studio as a VST plugin and route the audio into Reaper, best of both worlds. I'm curious what frustrates you about the ME in Reaper? I'm making a second go at it because of the customization aspect and the plethora of scripts for midi composition and control but wonder about potential roadblocks...


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## Quasar (Mar 23, 2018)

InLight-Tone said:


> You can use FL Studio as a VST plugin and route the audio into Reaper, best of both worlds. I'm curious what frustrates you about the ME in Reaper? I'm making a second go at it because of the customization aspect and the plethora of scripts for midi composition and control but wonder about potential roadblocks...


I wouldn't worry about roadblocks. You _can_ do pretty much anything. What I'm mainly unhappy about is the inability to natively draw bezier-like envelopes in the CC lanes, but I've already complained about this too much...

...And this may sound trivial, but: I'd like to make a toolbar icon that can toggle whether or not left-drag midi note movement is constrained on either the x or the y axis, and, while you can customize the mouse modifiers to govern this behavior (the default is CTRL+SHFT to constrain, and no key command lets you drag the note freely) I can't find a way to toggle it off and on similar to the way you can, for example, enable/disable snap to grid.


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## Lassi Tani (Mar 24, 2018)

I used FL Studio for many years before starting to compose orchestral music and building templates. I think I had FL Studio 11, when I moved to Cubase mainly because building a big orchestral template wasn't FL Studio's forte. I'm not sure, how it is now, but I remember it was quite hard to compose complex pieces, because FL Studio's workflow is about loops and patterns. Though very handy for certain type of music, but not for music that I compose. Also it started to become unstable and crashing with big templates.

When I moved to Cubase, my first impression was, I hate the piano roll! I want to move back to FL Studio just because of the amazing piano roll. But other features, like folders, routing, overall template setup, expression maps, mixer made me stay with Cubase.


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## peter5992 (Mar 27, 2018)

ein fisch said:


> Hello Friends.
> 
> I've been looking in every forum on the internet and the opinions on what DAW to choose are different. Each got its pros and cons.
> 
> ...



If you want to cover all edges, I'd suggest

a. Pro Tools for deliveries (it's still the standard with large studios, even if you don't use it for composing music it's useful to be able to deliver PT sessions to remixers or when you collaborate with other people)

b. a good sequencing program, like Cubase, or DP, or Logic (mac only), or Reaper (which I really like). Or just continue with FL if that's what you are used to. Nobody cares what you use. If you want to work for Hans Zimmer, get Cubase, that's what they use at Remote Control.

c. get a good engraving program. The two main programs now are Finale and Sibelius, and Dorico is coming up fast and has a lot of promise for the future, but still lacks some features that are very useful for film composing or orchestration (no large time signatures, no video sync).


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## ranaprathap (Mar 27, 2018)

paulmatthew said:


> Best response to the DAW question I've ever heard.



To watch Blake Robinson use Fl Piano roll, click and draw every single note like on a notation paper and pencil, its just pure magic.


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## Vik (Mar 27, 2018)

ein fisch said:


> i heard pro tools is still kind of the "industry standard" as soon as youre becoming a professional composer.


That’s wrong, twice. 
Pro Tools isn’t the industry standard for composers or pro composers, and have never been that either. It’s not even the industry standard among DAW users - but it has been the industry standard among engineers in high end studios, which is about something very different than composing. 

The reason PT became the industry standard in professional studios was that it was the only DAW that could handle many audio files/tracks - due to TDM and integrated DSP cards.

Go for any DAW you want... send them audio files, not project files - and you’re good.

https://vi-control.net/community/th...ram-for-work-with-orchestral-libraries.43016/


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## KV626 (Mar 28, 2018)

At the end of the day, it depends on how you work. 

I work in film music, so I need to do both MIDI and a lot of audio editing. That's how I _compose_. I'm always amused when people say you can't _compose_ in Pro Tools. And when it comes to audio editing, Pro Tools is so far ahead the competition it's not even funny.

_Pro Toos is for deliveries, Pro Tools is not composing. You can't do "serious" MIDI with Pro Tools_. Please. 

Use any DAW you want indeed, but don't think for one second that you can't compose music in Pro Tools. This is 2018, not 1998.


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## robgb (Mar 30, 2018)

Just get Reaper and watch these videos. This way you can avoid going from one DAW to the next until you find one that YOU control rather than it controlling you. I went through several different DAWs (including Logic and Cubase) before I found my true home. I'm saving you some of the headache. Trust me.


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