# Studio One 5.1 released!



## EgM (Oct 19, 2020)

Version 5.1 Release Notes (October 20, 2020):

*New features and improvements:

Recording and Mixing*
● Retrospective Recording
● Track/Channel search and filter options
● Bypass option for Gain Envelopes
● Copy/Paste send chains

*Arrangement and Editing*
● Improved presentation of Global Tracks
● Secondary Timeline Ruler option
● New combined Signature Track (time and key signature changes)
● Transfer key signature events using ARA
● Global Tracks in Editors (Marker, Arranger, Chords, Signature)
● Score Printing
● Score View: Key Signature Changes
● Score View: Staff Presets
● Score View: Staff Settings
● Score View: Alternative views
● Score View: Noteheads selection
● [Impact XT] Colorized events in Pattern Editor

*Live Performance*
● Edit indicator for Patches
● External instrument support for Patches

*Plug-ins and Instruments*
● [Ampire and Pedalboard] New Compressor and Gate FX pedals
● Drag & Drop FX pedals between Ampire and Pedalboard

*Workflow*
● [Start Page] Search function for songs, projects, and shows
● [Project Page] Digital Release never adds a 2-second pause

*General*
● Alternative views for Instrument Rack
● Improved ATOM integration:
▪ 4 Banks of assignable Encoders
▪ 4 Banks of assignable Pad Commands
▪ Scales in keyboard mode
▪ Open Note FX editor option
▪ Replace instrument option
● [macOS] Switchable hardware graphics acceleration
● [Windows] High-DPI scaling option re-enabled
● [Windows] Improved user experience with consumer-grade non-ASIO audio devices

*New commands*
● Edit
o Show Empty Track
o Hide Empty Tracks
o Show Tracks with Events under Cursor
o Hide Tracks with Events under Cursor
o Show Tracks with Events in Loop Range
o Hide Tracks with Events in Loop Range
o Show Soloed Tracks
o Hide Soloed Tracks
o Show Muted Tracks
o Hide Muted Tracks
o Show Disabled Tracks
o Hide Disabled Tracks
o Show Enabled Tracks
o Hide Enabled Tracks
o Show Instrument Tracks
o Hide Instrument tracks
o Show Audio Tracks
o Hide Audio Tracks
o Show Selected Tracks
o Hide Selected Track
o Show All Tracks
o Undo Visibility
o Redo Visibility
● Audio
o Bypass Gain Envelope
o Extract Key Signature from Event
● Event
o Extend by Grid
o Shorten by Grid
● Console
o Find Channel
o Filter Channel
● Track
o Find Track
o Filter Track
o Recall Retrospective Recording
● View
o Swap Ruler Formats
o Open Secondary Ruler



Spoiler: Bug fixes:



* [Windows] flickering play cursor at 175% scaling
* [Windows] Irregular grid lines at 125%, 150% and 175% scaling
* [macOS] Note event vs. audio timing off grid at high buffer settings
* [macOS HiSierra] When pinning Soothe 2, all other plug-in windows are stalled
* [macOS] Graphical performance degrades when scrolling collapsed folder
* [macOS] No redrawing of icons when switching resolution
* [macOS] Text not clipped in browser tile
* [macOS] Unwanted wrapping in certain text boxes
* [macOS] Laggy graphics with certain 3rd party plug-ins
* [Browser] Can't delete certain custom folders
* [Browser] Crash on expanding certain track folders
* [Browser] Selecting multiple items in Tree View doesn't work on first click w/ Shift
* [Mixer] Monitoring live input from bus no longer possible
* [Mixer] Multi Instrument primary/master channel name is not retained
* [Mixer] Pipeline XT not passing audio when inserted to Listen Bus
* [Mixer] Solo safe in aux channels forces realtime render when bouncing a virtual instrument track
* [Mixer] Keyboard shortcut "add gain trim" always opens 1st insert slot
* [Presence XT Editor] Decimal shift when entering tune values
* [Presence XT Editor] Wrong conversion when entering negative 'Tune' values
* [AutoFilter] Leftover TODO tooltip
* [Impact XT] Sample offset settings are not recalled
* [Exchange] .ioconfig "installs" to default "Download" folder
* [Note FX] Arpeggiator chokes up in certain situations
* Audio miscalculation on extreme tempo edits
* Audition is suspended too early on recording with Auto Punch
* Automation may migrate to a different track
* Can't create audio track above a folder track via drag and drop
* Can't duplicate a transformed Instrument Track
* Certain original audio cannot be dragged into arrangement
* Delay compensation / latency not updated unless the plugin is reset manually
* Duplicating automation sometimes not working properly
* Event text position is odd on high vertical zoom levels
* Export mixdown is longer than loop range when an AUX channel is present
* Graphic ghost and font space issue when event badges are disabled
* In Step Recording mode, cursor does not advance after input notes when the Tempo Track contains nodes
* Last track in the Arrangement cannot be resized if it has been minimized
* Listen bus metering options are following audio track metering options
* Misc 3rd party plug-in window resize issues (Kilohearts, Melda Productions, Waves...)
* Noise when loading a song w/ Ampire when Dropout Protection is set to Maximum
* Open folder range selection disappears on copy/paste command
* Potential crash when editing audio bend markers
* Second external device plugged-in is not auto-detected sometimes
* Context menu reacts differently to mouse clicks on macOS and Windows
* "Stop at Marker" is being ignored in certain situations
* Unwanted behavior when copying sections w/ enclosed automation
* Updating an Instrument+FX Preset creates .preset file instead of .instrument



Good work Presonus!


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## puremusic (Oct 19, 2020)

Retrospective Record! Yes!! Haha!


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## easyrider (Oct 19, 2020)

RR


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 19, 2020)

No one can claim that Presonus doesn't listen at least


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## Lukas (Oct 19, 2020)

Yes. And there will be some nice features for working with orchestral templates too


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## dcoscina (Oct 19, 2020)

I've gotten so spoiled creating my own presets and keyswitches. Now with RR, I'm really down with Studio One 5.1. The score editor is honestly the nicest of the daws out there. I really enjoy working in it. Great job PreSonus!


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## Mucusman (Oct 19, 2020)

I watched the preview video. This is a robust update. I've been wondering why the starting page never allowed for searches for song names... long overdue, but welcome. The music (staff) printing option looks wonderful and, honestly, was the only reason I bought Notion years ago.


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## MrHassanSan (Oct 19, 2020)

Wow, I was contemplating switching to S1 this weekend, and the lack of RR was making me a bit hesitant considering how much of a workflow improvement it's been for me the past few years. Unless something egregious happens during my trial, I guess I'm joining the S1 gang 🥳


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## Mucusman (Oct 19, 2020)

In the preview video, Retrospective Record (MIDI) was said to be one of the top three feature requests made to PreSonus.


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## Lukas (Oct 19, 2020)

Mucusman said:


> In the preview video, Retrospective Record (MIDI) was said to be one of the top three feature requests made to PreSonus.


Yes.



Highest voted questions in Studio One Feature Requests - Questions & Answers | PreSonus


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## jonathanparham (Oct 19, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> I've gotten so spoiled creating my own presets and keyswitches. Now with RR, I'm really down with Studio One 5.1. The score editor is honestly the nicest of the daws out there. I really enjoy working in it. Great job PreSonus!


not wanting to derail the announcement thread, but is there a way you can coordinate staffpad and Studio 1s notation?


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 19, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Yes. And there will be some nice features for working with orchestral templates too



What would that be, if not the track search/filter function?



jonathanparham said:


> not wanting to derail the announcement thread, but is there a way you can coordinate staffpad and Studio 1s notation?



You need Notion to get MusicXML into Studio One (you have to import MusicXML to Notion and then send that to S1).


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## dcoscina (Oct 19, 2020)

jonathanparham said:


> not wanting to derail the announcement thread, but is there a way you can coordinate staffpad and Studio 1s notation?


You can export a standard MIDI file into StaffPad


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 19, 2020)

One of their top feature requests for some time has been most custom color options, so I'm hoping for that including adjustment of transparency level of clips. 🙏


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## muziksculp (Oct 19, 2020)

Would be nice if we can setup articulation switches via Program Change messages.

Looking forward to enjoy the new features in S1Pro 5.1


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## EgM (Oct 19, 2020)

I'm surprised no one thought it was about it finally supporting 5.1 surround mixing


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## jonathanwright (Oct 20, 2020)

Gosh, quite an impressive (and free) update.


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## skythemusic (Oct 20, 2020)

I wonder if the Atom will have all 16 pads work in 3rd party instruments or only 13 like it is now.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

skythemusic said:


> I wonder if the Atom will have all 16 pads work in 3rd party instruments or only 13 like it is now.


What do you mean? I use the ATOM with 3rd party instruments (e.g. Addictive Drums) and of course I can use all 16 pads.


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## skythemusic (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> What do you mean? I use the ATOM with 3rd party instruments (e.g. Addictive Drums) and of course I can use all 16 pads.



Any program that needs to have the octave changed, such as Butch Vig drums in Kontakt, will remain in octave change mode rendering pads 14-16 useless.

I have been back and forth with Presonus tech support, their forum, Sweetwater, etc. for months with no solution. Pad 15 lowers the octave and if you get it to the correct octave for pads 1-13 pad 14 will be blank, hitting pad 15 will lower the octave further rendering it useless, and pad 16 will raise the octave rendering it useless.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

I always do that via *BANK*. Bank + Pad 1 = lowest Octave, Bank + Pad 8 = highest Octave

Does this work for you?


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## skythemusic (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> I always do that via *BANK*. Bank + Pad 1 = lowest Octave, Bank + Pad 8 = highest Octave
> 
> Does this work for you?


That does put it in the correct octave, but renders pads 13-16 not functioning. 14 is unlit, 15 is red, and 16 is orange. 15 and 16 will switch octaves.


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## shropshirelad (Oct 20, 2020)

Shame that non-Sphere users are being kept out of the loop. I've only purchased Studio One 4 Pro plus upgrade to 5, Notion 6, a Faderport 8, an Atom and a pair of Eris 5s so far this year, so clearly not a loyal enough customer!


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## ennbr (Oct 20, 2020)

I was wondering have any of the Sphere users gotten the download today and does it have everything that was listed in the initial post here. 

And I agree it's a shame that the customers who actually purchase Studio One are somehow second rate to the new customer base that rent their software.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

What's the problem that users that pay for special content get this content...?

Sphere users don't get Studio One 5.1 earlier. Nobody has access to Studio One 5.1 yet. It was just a sneak preview for Sphere users that get some insights into the new version 24 hours earlier.

Studio One 5.1 will be available for everyone at the same time.


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## easyrider (Oct 20, 2020)

Studio One 5.1 will be available for everyone at the same time.


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> What's the problem that users that pay for special content get this content...?
> 
> Sphere users don't get Studio One 5.1 earlier. Nobody has access to Studio One 5.1 yet. It was just a sneak preview for Sphere users that get some insights into the new version 24 hours earlier.
> 
> Studio One 5.1 will be available for everyone at the same time.



Nobody is disputing that. What's worrisome is that this was a live announcement for Sphere members only, and concerning Studio One.

The concern is that this maybe sets a precedent for the future, what's next, something like "New Ampire/plugin/feature, available exclusively for Sphere members!" and so on.

Presonus should be very careful how they treat their loyal base who bought their software outright when Sphere wasn't even available.

Other than that, this is an extremely nice update!


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

EgM said:


> The concern is that this maybe sets a precedent for the future, what's next, something like "New Ampire/plugin/feature, available exclusively for Sphere members!" and so on.
> 
> Presonus should be very careful on how they treat their loyal base who bought their software outright when Sphere wasn't even available.


Currently, we're speaking of a sneak preview video. It's the kind of content Sphere users pay for.


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Currently, we're speaking of a sneak preview video. It's the kind of content Sphere users pay for.



You're not getting it, that's fine. The core of the question here is why is it ok to keep Studio One owners/and Slice out of the loop? If this was new Sphere content that was added, that would be perfectly fine.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

You assume that Studio One owners are kept out of the loop. Which is not the case. You turn this one thing (a feature preview video exclusive for Sphere members) into a discussion of principles. I don't think it's the end of the world.


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## MrHassanSan (Oct 20, 2020)

> In addition to these creative tools, PreSonus Sphere members are also given cloud collaboration tools and storage, chat with Studio One experts from around the globe, *access to exclusive live streams, masterclass videos, promotions, sneak peeks, and events*—with much more being added each month—all for a low monthly or annual membership.



It's part of the deal. To me, getting a video preview a single day before a big content drop is totally fine.


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> You assume that Studio One owners are kept out of the loop. Which is not the case. You turn this one thing (a feature preview video exclusive for Sphere members) into a discussion of principles. I don't think it's the end of the world.



Of course it's not the end of the world, I never said it was nor am I angry or having a tantrum. I'm simply stating the principle like you said.


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## ennbr (Oct 20, 2020)

The reality is that Sphere users only Pay $30 more per year than what I pay for my yearly upgrade. But the none Sphere community seems to be out in the cold after supporting Presonus for many many years.

Yes I could switch over but I personally don't like renting anything.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

ennbr said:


> Yes I could switch over but I personally don't like renting anything.


I agree. I don't like it either.



ennbr said:


> But the none Sphere community seems to be out in the cold after supporting Presonus for many many years.


I don't understand. It would be true if we got *less* than before. But everything stays the same. It's only an optional service and additional thing for users that want even more. They pay for it (and it's not really expensive as you said) and get additional things. We don't complain that there is KOMPLETE Ultimate and users that pay its price get more than people that just pay for KOMPLETE - right?


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

ennbr said:


> The reality is that Sphere users only Pay $30 more per year than what I pay for my yearly upgrade. But the none Sphere community seems to be out in the cold after supporting Presonus for many many years.
> 
> Yes I could switch over but I personally don't like renting anything.



Paid updates aren't yearly and cost 149$ USD

Release dates for paid updates:
Studio One 5 - July 7, 2020
Studio One 4 - May 22, 2018
Studio One 3 - May 20, 2015
Studio One 2 - Oct 31, 2011

Sphere costs 180$/Year


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> We don't complain that there is KOMPLETE Ultimate and users that pay its price get more than people that just pay for KOMPLETE - right?



Two completely unrelated things. People that buy Studio One Artist don't expect the same as people who bought Studio One Pro.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

Well, Sphere is a subscription service and it includes not only software but also content. What else is different about it? Two things you can pay for voluntarily and get extra value for it.


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## dcoscina (Oct 20, 2020)

I cannot wait until this update drops... anyone know the time it's gonna land?? 
I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve....


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> I cannot wait until this update drops... anyone know the time it's gonna land??
> I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve....



Usually it's around 1pm/2pm EST


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## jonathanwright (Oct 20, 2020)

I've bought every version of Studio One outright, but this time I subscribed to Sphere, because I didn't want to buy version 5 immediately.

Subscribers don't get to _keep_ anything. Stop subscribing and they no longer get access to Studio One (unless they have a purchased version) or the extra plugins and content.

If a subscribers are paying extra for something, it stands to reason they should get something extra.

In this case it has to be said, all they've had is a video explaining the new features.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> I cannot wait until this update drops... anyone know the time it's gonna land??


It will happen in the next hour


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## InLight-Tone (Oct 20, 2020)

So glad I made the switch to S1...


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## dcoscina (Oct 20, 2020)

InLight-Tone said:


> So glad I made the switch to S1...


Yeah I'm digging it so far. I jumped in with S1 first came out back years ago, then I stopped using it when I began getting some commercial scoring gigs. I used DP and occasionally Logic. Then I moved to Cubase a couple years back and loved the work flow but not the instability of it on my Mac. Studio One runs very nicely on both my MP 6,1 and Macbook Air i7.


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

And it's out! Enjoy!


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## shropshirelad (Oct 20, 2020)

Studio One users around the world are getting ready to download the 5.1 update. What could possibly go wrong? 

Edit: Smooth, quick, painless. Good work Presonus!


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## jonathanwright (Oct 20, 2020)

Much smoother on a Mac with hardware acceleration.

RR works great, just figuring out filtering.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

And here is my video. I apologize for my English 




Have fun with the search and filter functions


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## THW (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> And here is my video. I apologize for my English
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Awesome update and thanks for your great video!


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

Alternative views for instruments rack:






This is nice!!


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## Sean J (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> You turn this one thing... into a discussion of principles. I don't think it's the end of the world.



Well.... to be fair, the less people are willing to listen to each other's principles, the more people justify tossing them and vilifying others. 2020, anyone?

I'm *very eager* to hear if my feature request will be heard, on a product I've paid for, and pay for updates for. Paying for news on top of that is odd. Subscriptions can undermine UX while raking in quick cash. Depends on the company: MS, Adobe, East West, AVID, etc. Word of mouth can suffer when you alienate users who bought from the start at full price, and now become 2nd class users. I'm not sour by this at all, just saying Sphere is new territory.


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## InLight-Tone (Oct 20, 2020)

This update is fantastic!

The one thing I'd wish they'd add though would be that visibility changes are reflected on Studio One Remote. As it stands, even though I have Visibility and Mixer Channels linked, channels hide in the S1 mixer properly (Desktop), but on Remote they don't. You still have hundreds of tracks to scroll through making it useless.


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

InLight-Tone said:


> This update is fantastic!
> 
> The one thing I'd wish they'd add though would be that visibility changes are reflected on Studio One Remote. As it stands, even though I have Visibility and Mixer Channels linked, channels hide in the S1 mixer properly (Desktop), but on Remote they don't. You still have hundreds of tracks to scroll through making it useless.



I think usually an update for Remote comes out a little while after an update to SO


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 20, 2020)

So no color palette improvements still :(


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## easyrider (Oct 20, 2020)




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## easyrider (Oct 20, 2020)




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## easyrider (Oct 20, 2020)




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## Al Maurice (Oct 20, 2020)

It's nice to see that Studio One is accomodating more composing-like features. At last the score view seems more usable, especially with pagination options. Filtering from DP -- nice to haves and a combined ruler. And at least our experimental noodling can be saved too.

Be interesting to see where we go for 5.3!


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

THW said:


> Awesome update and thanks for your great video!


Thanks


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## miguel88 (Oct 20, 2020)

look great, just I hope in the next updates I see better video support and add 5.1 mix etc


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

miguel88 said:


> look great, just I hope in the next updates I see better video support


I'm sure video and keyswitches improvements are the next big step in terms of scoring


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## axb312 (Oct 20, 2020)

Im still on S4, hoping for better articulation management before updating...


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## muziksculp (Oct 20, 2020)

axb312 said:


> Im still on S4, hoping for better articulation management before updating...



Yes, more articulation management/control features would be nice. Maybe in the next update. i.e. via Program change instead of note numbers.


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## muziksculp (Oct 20, 2020)




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## Macrawn (Oct 20, 2020)

Hide empty tracks is going to please some template folks I believe.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

Macrawn said:


> Hide empty tracks is going to please some template folks I believe.


I hope it's not the only function that's going to please the template folks.

I made a video explicitely for these template / composer features:

- Track Search Field
- Toggle Track Types
- Show Selected Tracks, Hide Empty Tracks, Hide Disabled Tracks
- Show Tracks with Events under the Cursor, Show Tracks with Events in Loop Range
- Track Visibility History
- Show Tracks by Name (only Show STRINGS or BRASS tracks)
- Find Track / Navigate to Instrument Sections




The only related feature that PreSonus didn't add is "Show Tracks with Events". That's why I created a macro for that and made my own toolbar.

I also added menus for different sample libraries developers and library names... so I can show all tracks with ProjectSAM, Orchestral Tools or Strezov Sampling libraries (if the search string applies).


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 20, 2020)

Really nice update. Not to mention that it's just x.1
I've noticed one funny thing - lots of my buddies, who use S1, and users from some other forums liked the update more than 5.0 release lol

What's more important(these days) - they are fixing bugs ASAP.

Overall, I really love the fact that they keep adding "small" features that aren't that flashy, but make workflow much more liberating and convenient, plus new features that don't clutter GUI.

If they keep going like this, I really don't see any reason to use other DAWs in near future(and I tried all major options).

Also, imagine they share User API... That's gonna kill reaper 😉


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

Agree 



Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Also, imagine they share User API... That's gonna kill reaper


There's a scripting API. It's not public though. But it's pretty powerful


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

Just added some more libraries and buttons. Takes some time when using really big templates (> 500 tracks) - but it works 






In theory, we could add macro buttons for any library to only show Symphobia or Albion or Wotan/Freyja/Arva tracks.

I made a little shop page and included the "Show Tracks Events" and three "Navigate to..." macros for free so everyone can use them, duplicate them and build custom macros, for different labelings or sample libraries. Because I got so many messages from people who wanted to use my toolbar, I also offer the whole toolbar including all sample library patches I made for the price of a coffee. But that just saves some hours of work, everyone can build this from scratch.









Studio One Orchestral Template Toolbar


A custom macro toolbar page for working with large library templates in Studio One 5 New (March 13, 2021): This macro toolbar has been updated to version 1.1 with new features and improvements. It also uses new functions in Studio One 5.2. See below ...




payhip.com





So I think for composers that work with many tracks 5.1 is really a decent one.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Agree
> 
> 
> There's a scripting API. It's not public though. But it's pretty powerful


Yeah, I know. But the publicity is the problem - we don't have it😒 
That's why I wrote "share". 

I remember some guys were digging this subject really deep on Presonus forum, but it didn't go any further than so-called "Studio one X"(which is not supported anymore) and some minor(but still useful) scripts like color pallets. So, these guys asked Presonus to share User API or maybe even Dev API with some cuts if they afraid of... of something. I don't know how it ended. Well, if we still don't have the access, ig it led to nowhere 🥴 

Anyway, it is a great DAW even without such customization options. But the options would've made it even better. Much better.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Just added some more libraries and buttons. Takes some time when using really big templates (> 500 tracks) - but it works
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't you know if they have any plans to add text filters and search option for events, and not for tracks and channels only? It can be very helpful for sketches.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> I remember some guys were digging this subject really deep on Presonus forum, but it didn't go any further than so-called "Studio one X"(which is not supported anymore) and some minor(but still useful) scripts like color pallets. So, these guys asked Presonus to share User API or maybe even Dev API with some cuts if they afraid of... of something. I don't know how it ended. Well, if we still don't have the access, ig it led to nowhere


They are not afraid. But it has never been priority.

I've worked a lot with Studio One scripting and I'm planning to release some of my MIDI editing scripts in early 2021... so if you have special ideas for custom commands or note actions, let me know. It can take some time until PreSonus will release a public SDK.



Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Don't you know if they have any plans to add text filters and search option for events, for tracks and channels only? It can be very helpful for sketches.


I can't say if there are any plans but I can add it to the FR list. Could you elaborate a bit? 5.1 added text filters and search functions for tracks (which also apply to channels if you have activated LINK). There's also a "Find Channel" command. So you miss a filter function for events? ("Only Show Tracks with Events with Name "...")?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> The only related feature that PreSonus didn't add is "Show Tracks with Events". That's why I created a macro for that and made my own toolbar.



Are you able to share that macro please? Thank you in advance!


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Are you able to share that macro please? Thank you in advance!


I'm going to publish the whole macro toolbar. But for that macro it's simple, it's just:

- Show All Tracks
- Hide Empty Tracks


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> They are not afraid. But it has never been priority.
> 
> I've worked a lot with Studio One scripting and I'm planning to release some of my MIDI editing scripts in early 2021... so if you have special ideas for custom commands or note actions, let me know. It can take some time until PreSonus will release a public SDK.
> 
> ...



Nope. I meant literally names of events. For example, you have an input box where you type any text and it will hide everything that doesn't include events with the text(basically, the same feature as the rest of the filters, but uses names of events as a filter trigger instead of channels/tracks' names). It can be very useful when you work with sound design and make versioning job(generally we do this by using folders and/or subfolders for every version, but often you need to compare certain events from different tracks and folders). There are plenty of other applications(this filtering used with macros can basically allow you to create tag system, which is one of the most simple ways of filtering stuff).
Also, I assume we can create complex filters via macros(like combining different triggers(eg name1+name2+track quality(audio, midi etc) and so on). I didn't try the update yet, but we do have this ability, this will be pretty cool combined with event view filters. Especially for mixing, sound design and all this crazy chaos stuff.

Another option that can make both: these new view filters and the filters I proposed, - to tie views with solo/mute(something like "mute hidden/solo showed items"). I assume we can try to come up with something like this via macros, but like I said, ability to use events' names as triggers would make it really useful. It's on case we will be able to mute/solo not tracks only, but events themselves.. Besides, relatively often we need to work with certain events regardless of their sound/insrument group), which is where the filter really shines.

By the way, what Presonus really missed is using color as a filter. If they finally add the ability to build pallets(per project) and allow us to use colors as filter triggers, this gonna be very useful as well.
These layers of different filters help to use then for different tasks and applying micro and macro approach toward viewing and navigating. But maybe I'm overcomplicating it...

Speaking of customization of midi editor. First of all I wound add per-project macros and made creation of macros easier, because for now it feels like the only outdated form in S1. I know that it's not directly related to midi editor and I know that we can create bars for macros and Marcos themselves, and then save them with certain name... But this is way to complicated. This is important because there are a lot(really a lot) of options in midi editor and we can create almost every thinkable operation, but crating and managing them is too complicated now. So, maybe if they add something like macros folder in project folder and update way of creating those very macros/macro bars, there won't be any need in scripts. Where scripts can really help in this case is, for example, creation of different ways of displaying your set of active macros, related to ongoing project. I tried to create a" super macro set" that supposed to cover all possible needs, but after a number of attempts and tests I realized that I'm an idiot🤧 and that it won't work because every project is unique(and even grades of this uniqueness are different from project to project) and requires its own sets of tools.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 20, 2020)

Bad news for Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass users - they still don't have a nudge by milliseconds macro to make it easier to work with advanced legato. I have a "legato" macro setup in Cubase to shift notes by specific ms based on their velocity - very handy vs trying to do it manually.


----------



## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Also, imagine they share User API... That's gonna kill reaper 😉



This a thousand times!! I think the first thing I'd do if we had access to API documentation is build a midifx transform


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

EgM said:


> This a thousand times!! I think the first thing I'd do if we had access to API documentation is build a midifx transform


What do you mean? Convert and transform CC data / Note Events / Pitchbend values etc.?


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

Lukas said:


> What do you mean? Convert and transform CC data / Note Events / Pitchbend values etc.?



Yeah like convert CC1 input to CC11 and similar


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

Mhhm yes... that's currently not possible with scripting yet because there's no access to automation data. Hopefully in the future.


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## Mucusman (Oct 20, 2020)

My understanding is that in creating song templates with many instrument tracks, that you need to create a new track for each instrument, name it, load in the actual virtual instrument, and then deactivate the track so that upon loading the template for a new song, no actual instruments are loaded (thus saving memory & time). Is this correct?

Currently, I don’t use templates in Studio One, but add each instrument as I compose from presets I have saved in the Browser. But seeing some other users’ templates, I’m wondering if this is a better workflow to embrace. Just wanting to confirm how to do it correctly.


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

Mucusman said:


> My understanding is that in creating song templates with many instrument tracks, that you need to create a new track for each instrument, name it, load in the actual virtual instrument, and then deactivate the track so that upon loading the template for a new song, no actual instruments are loaded (thus saving memory & time). Is this correct?
> 
> Currently, I don’t use templates in Studio One, but add each instrument as I compose from presets I have saved in the Browser. But seeing some other users’ templates, I’m wondering if this is a better workflow to embrace. Just wanting to confirm how to do it correctly.



I have a setup for both scenarios, one full of disabled tracks, the other with all my presets from the browser. I find myself never using the full disabled tracks template because of the clutter...

The presets also work pretty awesomely with VEP as well, I make presets per folder depending on what machine they're hosted on like this: (Local, Dell-ip251, Mac-ip250) To me, it's much faster and cleaner.


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## Lukas (Oct 20, 2020)

Mucusman said:


> My understanding is that in creating song templates with many instrument tracks, that you need to create a new track for each instrument, name it, load in the actual virtual instrument, and then deactivate the track so that upon loading the template for a new song, no actual instruments are loaded (thus saving memory & time). Is this correct?


You can do it like that. Or you would rather drag an instrument from the Instrument Browser to the arrangement to add a track with this instrument. If you drag a preset, you don't need to name anything because the preset name will become the track name. Then you can deactivate these tracks and save the template.

I don't always work with large templates. I have saved Studio One presets for my most used library patches so I can just start an empty song (with basic bus and FX routings) and drag presets into the song.

...pretty similar to @EgM 's workflow. Only that I updated most of my presets to Instrument+FX presets so that keyswitch maps are recalled with the preset automatically.


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## EgM (Oct 20, 2020)

Also, Studio One instrument presets load the VEP instance even if nothing is loaded in the slave so no RAM/CPU overhead.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 20, 2020)

Must say the score editor is a lot easier to use than Logic's, so that's a win. Now if only they allow us to nudge midi notes by milliseconds, it won't be a non-starter to use for Cinematic Studio Strings / Brass.


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## jonathanwright (Oct 20, 2020)

My only issue with larger templates is that the auto save time can become intrusive, even with all tracks disabled.


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## Lukas (Oct 21, 2020)

jonathanwright said:


> My only issue with larger templates is that the auto save time can become intrusive, even with all tracks disabled.


Does the "Use cached plug-in data on save" help in your case?


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## jonathanwright (Oct 21, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Does the "Use cached plug-in data on save" help in your case?



I didn't know that existed! I'll give it a try.


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## Lukas (Oct 21, 2020)

It should decrease save times a lot.

Make sure to make a backup of your template before. It seems to work flawlessly for most people but in the first version I had a problem with Kontakt instances being empty when I used this option. In the latest version it works well for me too.


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## jonathanwright (Oct 21, 2020)

Lukas said:


> It should decrease save times a lot.
> 
> Make sure to make a backup of your template before. It seems to work flawlessly for most people but in the first version I had a problem with Kontakt instances being empty when I used this option. In the latest version it works well for me too.



That's made a big difference, thanks!


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## easyrider (Oct 21, 2020)

I was annoyed the other night using S1 and I love it with my FP 16 and Console one ,such tight integration.

However I was vamping on a VI piano,came up with something I thought was half decent and was annoyed as I didn’t hit record....

I then hit record and tried to do what I was doing again and it wasn’t the same...

Then a free update hits unlike Cubase or Pro Tools that charge for drip feeding their customers and voila! Not only do I get cool new features but retrospective record.

I love the ethos, the tech support and the DAW.....The other devs are greedy old code hugging munchkins IMO


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 21, 2020)

EgM said:


> I have a setup for both scenarios, one full of disabled tracks, the other with all my presets from the browser. I find myself never using the full disabled tracks template because of the clutter...
> 
> The presets also work pretty awesomely with VEP as well, I make presets per folder depending on what machine they're hosted on like this: (Local, Dell-ip251, Mac-ip250) To me, it's much faster and cleaner.



Btw, people often forget that there is an "import song data" option. I use it a lot. It's very handy when you have 100s of different libs and instruments in general and useful in creating all kinds of sets that fit different tasks. This way we can create lots of different templates and just d&d selected tracks in the ongoing project. I used to be a big fan of big templates, but when S1 added this ISD feature, I changed my workflow.


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## Macrawn (Oct 21, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Btw, people often forget that there is an "import song data" option. I use it a lot. It's very handy when you have 100s of different libs and instruments in general and useful in creating all kinds of sets that fit different tasks. This way we can create lots of different templates and just d&d selected tracks in the ongoing project. I used to be a big fan of big templates, but when S1 added this ISD feature, I changed my workflow.


Tell me about this. You mean if you have say a template saved separately as a project of some libraries not in your main template, you use this function to "import" the parts of the template you want. Is that how it works?


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## Lukas (Oct 21, 2020)

You can use the Import Song Data dialog for that... if you want to just import one preset, channel strip (insert FX etc.) or performance, it's easier to use the browser. You can open your songs and they behave like a folder so you can just drag certain elements into your song.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 21, 2020)

Macrawn said:


> Tell me about this. You mean if you have say a template saved separately as a project of some libraries not in your main template, you use this function to "import" the parts of the template you want. Is that how it works?


Yup. I just drug and drop from browser. Import Window can be useful when you need to import a lot of stuff, but when you add tracks\instruments\FX etc. during working process, it is much easier to use browser. And yes, I'm creating templates for all kinds of processes(mixing, scoring and so on).
The main problem with ISD is that it doesn't import routing. This is the only thing that drives me crazy because you can't save complext things in this regard to recall it later, so you have to make routing again every time. For example, you can create a delay template with different delays and different methods of usage of the processors, often you do this with cross-sends(one delay is sent to another delay or to another FX send(eg reverb) and you can't save and recall that. This sucks because you have to stick to certain go-tos instead of being able to try different setups and to experiment in general.

Anyway, if we talk about instruments only, this is a no-brainer option(for me at least).
And, like Lucas mentioned, you can also import presets, chains etc. It's always useful.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 21, 2020)

Really wish they would adopt the Cubase approach for MIDI CC / velocity transform instead of needing to select it with the transform tool. It's an extra step for a very frequent action. Or even how Logic does it - all without changing tools or anything.

And something silly I found - if you use the pencil tool, you can draw in MIDI CC data even if you start over an existing point. However, if you try to use the mouse modifier to temporarily switch to the pencil tool, as soon as you approach a point, it switches you back to the pointer tool even with the modifier held down.

Lot of composer-related features recently, but probably could use some more composers in their beta group. Ah well, back to trusty Logic.


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## Lukas (Oct 21, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Really wish they would adopt the Cubase approach for MIDI CC / velocity transform instead of needing to select it with the transform tool. It's an extra step for a very frequent action. Or even how Logic does it - all without changing tools or anything.


You know Alt+T? (Option+T)


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## Lukas (Oct 21, 2020)

I can't reproduce what you describe. Everything fine here.






Pretty fast and easy. Don't really see the problem.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 21, 2020)

Lukas said:


> You know Alt+T? (Option+T)



Yes, thank you. That is the extra step I was referring to (select all and then select with transform).




Lukas said:


> I can't reproduce what you describe. Everything fine here.



You are not trying to start the pencil on an existing point.

Also, for some reason, my Omnisphere is blocked. Anybody else?

Is there a keyboard shortcut for navigating between the automation tabs in the piano editor btw? Couldn't find one.


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## Lukas (Oct 21, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You are not trying to start the pencil on an existing point.


No, why should I? The pencil is for adding new points. Otherwise I just edit an existing one.

Studio One is not Cubase  And both have their own workflow. You can't expect every click to be the same (usually in Studio One you need less clicks..).



ALittleNightMusic said:


> Also, for some reason, my Omnisphere is blocked. Anybody else?


That means Omnisphere crashes during scan. It's fine here... nothing blocked.



ALittleNightMusic said:


> Is there a keyboard shortcut for navigating between the automation tabs in the piano editor btw? Couldn't find one.


Not yet. Do you need one?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 21, 2020)

Lukas said:


> No, why should I? The pencil is for adding new points. Otherwise I just edit an existing one.
> 
> Studio One is not Cubase  And both have their own workflow. You can't expect every click to be the same (usually in Studio One you need less clicks..).
> 
> ...



Well we clearly have different ideas about workflow - and that's ok  I like to flow from recorded MIDI CC data when editing - starting on a point is how to do that. Given the dedicated pencil tool in S1 does allow this, I would guess it is a bug or an oversight.

And yes, having a keyboard shortcut to quickly traverse between automation parameters in the piano editor would be very handy. Similar to that, would be something like a "Show all used parameters" or parameter presets that I could recall. These are all workflow improvements that speed things up.


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## Lukas (Oct 21, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Given the dedicated pencil tool in S1 does allow this, I would guess it is a bug or an oversight.


I tried to reproduce it here but I couldn't :( Are you on Windows or Mac?


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## shropshirelad (Oct 21, 2020)

Lukas said:


> It should decrease save times a lot


Wow, it really does. Thank you Lukas.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 21, 2020)

Lukas said:


> I tried to reproduce it here but I couldn't :( Are you on Windows or Mac?



I'm on a Mac.


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## Lukas (Oct 21, 2020)

Will check on my MacBook later.


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## kclements (Oct 21, 2020)

Maybe not the place to ask this - but what the heck. Is there a key command to toggle audition notes in the editor on and off? Sometimes I want to hear what I am working on and other times not so much. I use this all the time in Logic, so I can select a lot of notes and not hear them all as I select. Cheers.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 21, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yes, thank you. That is the extra step I was referring to (select all and then select with transform).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Smart Tool" for midi editor is one of the most upvoted feature in the features request section. Considering how PreSonus were implementing basically every requested feature, I assume we will see it very soon(probably in the next .x update or in .5). This thing will make it even better and more convinient than in Cubase(well, if PreSonus won't f this up🤭).

Here's this request:




__





Smart Tool for MIDI [Completed 5.2] - Questions & Answers | PreSonus


So 3.2 introduced a Smarter Tool for audio, but the same principal can be applied to MIDI editing ... list about how a feature like this might work.



answers.presonus.com


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## FrogZone (Oct 21, 2020)

Just tried the demo...is it just me or Studio One auto-saves with the "Use cached plug-in data on save" is much quicker than in Cubase in a large project?


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## samphony (Oct 21, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Also, for some reason, my Omnisphere is blocked. Anybody else?


Omnisphere crashes Studio One if it can’t find the steam folder.


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## Lukas (Oct 21, 2020)

kclements said:


> Is there a key command to toggle audition notes in the editor on and off?


Not yet ... one more feature request to note


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## EgM (Oct 21, 2020)

FrogZone said:


> Just tried the demo...is it just me or Studio One auto-saves with the "Use cached plug-in data on save" is much quicker than in Cubase in a large project?



Extremely quicker!


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## FrogZone (Oct 21, 2020)

EgM said:


> Extremely quicker!


I'm actually impressed...Of course my test was not a real life scenario but I tried loading 10 instances of Noire, as well as 20 empty Kontakt, then 5 bus with Spaces 2 on them, and the save time is practically instantaneous, while in Cubase the same project takes maybe a second to save (on a hard drive) on my modest CPU. Did anyone else tried a similar comparison?


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 21, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> "Smart Tool" for midi editor is one of the most upvoted feature in the features request section. Considering how PreSonus were implementing basically every requested feature, I assume we will see it very soon(probably in the next .x update or in .5). This thing will make it even better and more convinient than in Cubase(well, if PreSonus won't f this up🤭).
> 
> Here's this request:
> 
> ...



By the way, just saw a reply under the request. This feature is also would be very useful:


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## EgM (Oct 21, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> By the way, just saw a reply under the request. This feature is also would be very useful:



I prefer a setting where you specify the length you want for new notes, I remember Cakewalk resizing notes to last touched and it annoyed the hell outta me when I touched a 2 measure note...


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 21, 2020)

EgM said:


> I prefer a setting where you specify the length you want for new notes, I remember Cakewalk resizing notes to last touched and it annoyed the hell outta me when I touched a 2 measure note...


Yes, me too, but sometimes I want that exact behavior. Like this guy wrote - "have an option". Maybe a switcher in midi editor's inspector or something like that.


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## EgM (Oct 21, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Yes, me too, but sometimes I want that exact behavior. Like this guy wrote - "have an option". Maybe a switcher in midi editor's inspector or something like that.



As long as it's a switchable option I'm all for it


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 21, 2020)

What do folks set their dropout protection at typically? Mine defaulted to minimum but my fully loaded BBCSO template totally choked on playback even with a couple of midi regions. Guessing I need to increase that?


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## EgM (Oct 21, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> What do folks set their dropout protection at typically? Mine defaulted to minimum but my fully loaded BBCSO template totally choked on playback even with a couple of midi regions. Guessing I need to increase that?



I keep mine at minimum, I've never had any success with any other mode enabled. Are you running BBCSO off a fast SSD? Enough RAM?

Might wanna check the CPU usage per plugin to see what's up


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 21, 2020)

EgM said:


> I keep mine at minimum, I've never had any success with any other mode enabled. Are you running BBCSO off a fast SSD? Enough RAM?
> 
> Might wanna check the CPU usage per plugin to see what's up



Yes off an SSD with 64GB RAM. Same template works without issue in Logic and Cubase at the same buffer size.


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## easyrider (Oct 22, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Just added some more libraries and buttons. Takes some time when using really big templates (> 500 tracks) - but it works
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Lukas said:


> I can't reproduce what you describe. Everything fine here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How are you creating these little gifs?


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 22, 2020)

easyrider said:


> How are you creating these little gifs?



I'm quite satisfied with ScreenToGif (that can generate 'normal' videos too).


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## Lukas (Oct 22, 2020)

Yep, ScreenToGif.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 22, 2020)

I have to say I am impressed by the enthusiasm level from people who are switching from their present DAW to this. Questions for Studio One converts from Logic:

1. Does it have anything like Take Folders for swipe comping audio, like in Logic, which I think is brilliant?
2. No Drummer equivalent correct?
3. No built in Score Editor, links with Notion only right?
4. Summing Stacks equivalent?
5. Didn't support Articulation IDs, not does correct?

I would download the free version and try it out but it says there is no VST instrument utilization in the free version, so I cannot test out how many software instruments I can load compared to Logic, which is a big deal to me.


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## Lukas (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> 3. No built in Score Editor, links with Notion only right?


Built-in Score Editor:








Ashermusic said:


> 2. No Drummer equivalent correct?


That's correct.



Ashermusic said:


> 4. Summing Stacks equivalent?


It has Multi-Instruments. Don't know the exact function of summing stacks - some Logic user have to step in here 



Ashermusic said:


> 5. Didn't support Articulation IDs, not does correct?


Articulation IDs is a Logic feature. Expression Maps is the Cubase feature. Studio One's articulation management supports only keyswitches right now.


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## Lukas (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I would download the free version and try it out but it says there is no VST instrument utilization in the free version, so I cannot test out how many software instruments I can load compared to Logic, which is a big deal to me.


The Prime (free) version does not support 3rd party plugins but you can run it in Demo mode (same installation) so you can use everything for 30 days.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> 3. No built in Score Editor, links with Notion only right?



You need Notion to do MusicXML import and export. You can also send the whole Notion project to S1 including all instruments, but no support for Notion's expression maps.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 22, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Built-in Score Editor:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So when you click on a note, do you always hear the correct articulation or does the key switch note have to be triggered first?


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## Lukas (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> So when you click on a note, do you always hear the correct articulation or does the key switch note have to be triggered first?


When you click on a note, only this note is played - so it will sound with the articulation that is active at the position the play cursor currently is. It's more like the "directions" workflow in Cubase.

I'm sure more keyswitches enhancements are coming so I hope we also get a way to attach keyswitches to notes. Then it should hopefully behave the way you describe it.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 22, 2020)

Lukas said:


> When you click on a note, only this note is played - so it will sound with the articulation that is active at the position the play cursor currently is. It's more like the "directions" workflow in Cubase.



Dealbreaker for me until they implement it so that you always hear the correct articulation without it having to chase a key switch note. I _never_ want to return to that nightmare.


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## Lukas (Oct 22, 2020)

What I usually do is select the note and press "L". This moves the cursor to the selected note so I can directly play from this position and then of course the note plays with the correct articulation. The playback doesn't have to pass the keyswitch (note).



I don't like every note to be played when I click it so I disabled this option. But I agree if you're used to that, notes should be played with the correct articulation once you click them.


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## Andy_P (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I have to say I am impressed by the enthusiasm level from people who are switching from their present DAW to this. Questions for Studio One converts from Logic:
> 
> 
> 4. Summing Stacks equivalent?
> a big deal to me.




In Logic terms, yes there is folder stack and summing stack. With a click you can change a folder stack to summing stack or vice versa. You also have nested folders.


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## khollister (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I would download the free version and try it out but it says there is no VST instrument utilization in the free version, so I cannot test out how many software instruments I can load compared to Logic, which is a big deal to me.



So I have LPX, Cubase and S1 v5 running on my iMac Pro 10 core. I have a test project that was a result of some discussion on Gearslutz about CPU performance on Xeon's vs i7/i9's when the new MP's arrived. It is 12 tracks of Diva and 6 tracks of Repro-5 with identical MIDI regions of sustained 6 note chord progressions. Multi core support is on in Diva and Repro, Diva is in Great mode and HQ is off in Repro.

Focus during playback is on an empty audio track, nothing record armed. ASIO Guard is on in Cubase, DP is enabled in S1 (have tried all settings). Buffer is set to 128 on my Apollo X6, macOS Catalina

Both Cubase 10.5 and LPX perform quite similar CPU-wise. 11 tracks of Diva plus 6 tracks of Repro play indefinitely without issue, indicated CPU load is about 85-90%. Enabling the 12th Diva track causes playback issues on both.

Trying this on S1 yields very odd results. The first time I hit play, everything freezes for 2-3 seconds and then the project plays fine (indicated CPU is about the same as LPX & Cubase). However if I have cycle mode on, or I stop, reset the playhead and start again, S1 will freeze and stutter for a few seconds either at the very end of the region or at the beginning when the cycle starts again. During those periods, S1 is completely unresponsive and the CPU meter is pegged.

As I recall, I had to disable at least half of the Diva tracks to get it to play normally.

And S1 multi instruments are basically the equivalent of summing stacks. However, my experience with multis is they seem to be placed on the same thread, even in playback mode. There is a huge difference in CPU load with a multi vs multiple separate tracks (at least in macOS). I haven't used summing stacks a lot in LPX, but I don't recall that happening there - I need to go test it specifically.

I also noticed that some of the torture test Omnisphere multi's had much higher CPU loads in S1 than LPX or Cubase. On the other hand, the Spitfire Performance Legatos in SSS use less CPU on a record armed track in S1 than LPX/Cubase.

While I like a lot of the S1 approach, the articulation management and CPU behavior are show stoppers for me at this point.


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## samphony (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Summing Stacks equivalent?


Jay as a long time Logic supporter and User (started with 4.0) i have to say Studio Ones summing stack equivalent (Turning a Folder into a vca or bus) is superior and more flexible including deep stacking 

I’m so fast in it that i prefered doing my mockups/ work in it over Cubase and Logic while collaborating with Jóhannsson.

coming from Logic made using Studio One so easy. I even was one of the initiators for Studio Expert. There are still articles of mine helping people coming from or working alongside Logic.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 22, 2020)

samphony said:


> Jay as a long time Logic supporter and User (started with 4.0) i have to say Studio Ones summing stack equivalent (Turning a Folder into a vca or bus) is superior and more flexible including deep stacking
> 
> I’m so fast in it that i prefered doing my mockups/ work in it over Cubase and Logic while collaborating with Jóhannsson.
> 
> coming from Logic made using Studio One so easy. I even was one of the initiators for Studio Expert. There are still articles of mine helping people coming from or working alongside Logic.




I am fooling around with it and I have to say, so far, I am impressed. Is there anyway to change the way the Mixer looks though, and why don't I see the software instruments in it?


----------



## EgM (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I am fooling around with it and I have to say, so far, I am impressed. Is there anyway to change the way the Mixer looks though, and why don't I see the software instruments in it?



Marked with arrows the areas where the instruments are marked  You can also easily rename 'Kontakt' and 'Kontakt 2' to what you want


----------



## Ozinga (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I am fooling around with it and I have to say, so far, I am impressed. Is there anyway to change the way the Mixer looks though, and why don't I see the software instruments in it?



You are seeing it  Unless you mean something else.
The left channel in the mixer that says Out 1-2 is your Play Instrument
How do you want to change the mixer look?


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I am fooling around with it and I have to say, so far, I am impressed. Is there anyway to change the way the Mixer looks though, and why don't I see the software instruments in it?


Yes, you can. There are actually plenty of options.
1)You see these bidirectional arrows - click them. Also, on different views of stripes you'll have some additional behavior that can be chosen in a drop down menu that triggered by clicking on this little key in the same area of interface.
2)Generally, try different options font this DDM. Aka not all options, related to mixer, placed in this menu.
3)Also, check some options in settings/advanced/mixer.

And there is very convenient I/O settings window(and i/o options themselves).


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## EgM (Oct 22, 2020)

Also, if you change the track name (on top left) it will reflect in the mixer track name, or if you want your arranger tracks to have the same as the mixer tracks, just select them all and choose this:


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## Ozinga (Oct 22, 2020)

By the way you can disable vst2 and vst3 if you prefer to use AU only so you do not see 2-3 of the same plugin in the browser. (From the Preferences/Advanced Tab)

Also from the browser wrench icon you can hide them or any plugin you do not want to see.


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## EgM (Oct 22, 2020)

Ozinga said:


> By the way you can disable vst2 and vst3 if you prefer to use AU only so you do not see 2-3 of the same plugin in the browser. (From the Preferences/Advanced Tab)
> 
> Also from the browser wrench icon you can hide them or any plugin you do not want to see.



I do the exact opposite and disable AU so all my projects work flawlessly in Mac and Windows


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## Ashermusic (Oct 22, 2020)

Ozinga said:


> You are seeing it  Unless you mean something else.
> The left channel in the mixer that says Out 1-2 is your Play Instrument
> How do you want to change the mixer look?



Ahhhh, that's what confused me. I want the mixer to look less cartoonish and more like a real hardware mixer.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 22, 2020)

To be honest, there is a pretty cool official manual. Better than pdf.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Ahhhh, that's what confused me. I want the mixer to look less cartoonish and more like a real hardware mixer.


Yeah, there is an options to switch off coloring of stripes. It's in that drop down menu.


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## EgM (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Ahhhh, that's what confused me. I want the mixer to look less cartoonish and more like a real hardware mixer.



This maybe? Click the wrench on top to bring the menu


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## easyrider (Oct 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Ahhhh, that's what confused me. I want the mixer to look less cartoonish and more like a real hardware mixer.



The cubase mixer looks like it’s been drawn by a 3 year old.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 22, 2020)

@Lukas don't you know if they plan to add text in score editor? That would be really useful for writing vocals. I was surprised that they didn't add it in the first place.


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## Lukas (Oct 22, 2020)

khollister said:


> I also noticed that some of the torture test Omnisphere multi's had much higher CPU loads in S1 than LPX or Cubase.


Where did you see this, in the internal DAW meter? That does not say anything... every DAW has its own method to measure that so you can't compare these values. They indicate different things.



Ozinga said:


> By the way you can disable vst2 and vst3 if you prefer to use AU only so you do not see 2-3 of the same plugin in the browser. (From the Preferences/Advanced Tab)


Yes. But speaking of AU and VST. Don't use AU in Studio One. Just don't do it!  Only use VST 3 (prefered) or VST 2. Only use AU if there's no VST version or if there are special issues with it.


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## Lukas (Oct 22, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> @Lukas don't you know if they plan to add text in score editor? That would be really useful for writing vocals. I was surprised that they didn't add it in the first place.


I can't say anything about future plans. But I think the real question is more about the "when" than "if" 

Did you already vote?





__





Lyrics inside the Score Editor - Questions & Answers | PreSonus


It would be a really great feature to enter lyrics (to the notes) inside the score editor, like it is possible in any other notation program.



answers.presonus.com


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 22, 2020)

Lukas said:


> I can't say anything about future plans. But I think the real question is more about the "when" than "if"
> 
> Did you already vote?
> 
> ...


Oh, I didn't see that. Thanks


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## khollister (Oct 22, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Where did you see this, in the internal DAW meter? That does not say anything... every DAW has its own method to measure that so you can't compare these values. They indicate different things.



The Omni patch I'm talking about is "Golgular" from the Unfinished's "Colossus II" soundset. On Cubase, I can play 16 voices and while the performance meter is pretty high, Cubase never clicks or pops or indicates an overload. On S1, I can't get 3 notes before it is snap, crackle, pop and the performance meter is pegged and indicates overload. Screw the meter, 16 voices vs 2 is a huge difference.

Look, I get that you guys are passionate about S1, but this is getting to be like "Mac vs PC".


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## EgM (Oct 22, 2020)

khollister said:


> The Omni patch I'm talking about is "Golgular" from the Unfinished's "Colossus II" soundset. On Cubase, I can play 16 voices and while the performance meter is pretty high, Cubase never clicks or pops or indicates an overload. On S1, I can't get 3 notes before it is snap, crackle, pop and the performance meter is pegged and indicates overload. Screw the meter, 16 voices vs 2 is a huge difference.
> 
> Look, I get that you guys are passionate about S1, but this is getting to be like "Mac vs PC".



To be fair, what Lukas said is true though... those meters within DAWs are very poor indicators of what's truly happening.

You're not the first one to report some issues using Multi-Instruments core performance, did you ever write a support ticket to Presonus about it? I've never needed to use those so have no idea, but I'll give a try this evening, good luck with it.


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## khollister (Oct 22, 2020)

EgM said:


> To be fair, what Lukas said is true though... those meters within DAWs are very poor indicators of what's truly happening.
> 
> You're not the first one to report some issues using Multi-Instruments core performance, did you ever write a support ticket to Presonus about it? I've never needed to use those so have no idea, but I'll give a try this evening, good luck with it.



Let me clarify I'm talking about 2 different issues:
1) There seems to be a core loading issue with S1 multi-instruments vs the same VST's in individual tracks. This is in playback, not a record armed live track.
2) I used an Omnisphere multi patch (not the S1 multi-instrument) as an example of very different CPU behavior compared to LPX and Cubase. This is a record armed track played live.

I have submitted 2 tickets in the last week - one for why S1 was sending continuous poly pressure events to my Faderport8 (response was "that's normal") and another to clarify exactly what is happening with DP, buffer settings and low latency mode. I got an RTFM response to that. I'm not sure I want to fool with this any more, but I may put a couple tickets in just to see what happens.


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## Lukas (Oct 22, 2020)

khollister said:


> The Omni patch I'm talking about is "Golgular" from the Unfinished's "Colossus II" soundset. On Cubase, I can play 16 voices and while the performance meter is pretty high, Cubase never clicks or pops or indicates an overload. On S1, I can't get 3 notes before it is snap, crackle, pop and the performance meter is pegged and indicates overload. Screw the meter, 16 voices vs 2 is a huge difference.
> 
> Look, I get that you guys are passionate about S1, but this is getting to be like "Mac vs PC".


I just explained that you can't compare the actual performance by just comparing the CPU performance meters in different DAWs. To get a really meaningful result, you need to build the same song (add the same amount of tracks, instruments, effects) with the same settings and see how many elements you can add before you get dropouts. That's the only valid method of comparing the performance. But this is what you did here (16 voices in Cubase, only 3 notes in Studio) so it's exactly what I mean 

But it's indeed weird that you get these different results ... I've never had similar issues with Omnisphere in Studio One, I have not yet managed to push my computer to its limit (and it's an old one) even with full voicings. However, I'm on PC / Windows 10 and although I have a Mac Book, I'm not really a Mac guy so I cannot say much here.


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## chocobitz825 (Oct 22, 2020)

Lukas said:


> I just explained that you can't compare the actual performance by just comparing the CPU performance meters in different DAWs. To get a really meaningful result, you need to build the same song (add the same amount of tracks, instruments, effects) with the same settings and see how many elements you can add before you get dropouts. That's the only valid method of comparing the performance. But this is what you did here (16 voices in Cubase, only 3 notes in Studio) so it's exactly what I mean
> 
> But it's indeed weird that you get these different results ... I've never had similar issues with Omnisphere in Studio One, I have not yet managed to push my computer to its limit (and it's an old one) even with full voicings. However, I'm on PC / Windows 10 and although I have a Mac Book, I'm not really a Mac guy so I cannot say much here.



have to agree here. I tried testing the same multi patch using it two instances of the same multi, a 3rd multi from the same library, some XO drums, and a trillian bass patch...and while I'm getting the high meter, there are no dropouts and performance seems fine. I don't know how we can really talk about the performance of a DAW vs. others when there are so many variables. I can understand if people just don't like studio one, but with my system, studio one has never failed, and since I maxed out my system, I've been able to run projects without ever needing to bounce VI tracks.


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## khollister (Oct 22, 2020)

Lukas said:


> I just explained that you can't compare the actual performance by just comparing the CPU performance meters in different DAWs. To get a really meaningful result, you need to build the same song (add the same amount of tracks, instruments, effects) with the same settings and see how many elements you can add before you get dropouts. That's the only valid method of comparing the performance. But this is what you did here (16 voices in Cubase, only 3 notes in Studio) so it's exactly what I mean
> 
> But it's indeed weird that you get these different results ... I've never had similar issues with Omnisphere in Studio One, I have not yet managed to push my computer to its limit (and it's an old one) even with full voicings. However, I'm on PC / Windows 10 and although I have a Mac Book, I'm not really a Mac guy so I cannot say much here.



When I get some time I'll put S1 & Cubase on an older PC I was using as a VEP slave a couple years ago and run the projects to seee how they compare.

I just created a project with 38 Omnisphere instances of a single patch (not the multi from hell), 4 voices per track and both Cubase & S1 crapped out at 39, so I'm very confused. Maybe it is a Mac thing for S1 - the irony is that everyone always seems to say Cubase sucks on Macs, so go figure.


----------



## Lukas (Oct 22, 2020)

Okay, that's interesting. Worth investigating further!


----------



## samphony (Oct 23, 2020)

khollister said:


> When I get some time I'll put S1 & Cubase on an older PC I was using as a VEP slave a couple years ago and run the projects to seee how they compare.
> 
> I just created a project with 38 Omnisphere instances of a single patch (not the multi from hell), 4 voices per track and both Cubase & S1 crapped out at 39, so I'm very confused. Maybe it is a Mac thing for S1 - the irony is that everyone always seems to say Cubase sucks on Macs, so go figure.


Can you send me that project to test?


----------



## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

I just did a simple test (maybe I don't know what I am doing - having just started using S1)

I created a track with Omnisphere using a guitar patch - _Christmas in Grenada_ and played in a simple 4 bar phrase arpeggio holding notes and such. I duplicated that track 60 times all playing the same thing. Repeated this in Logic Pro 10.5.1

Both Logic and S1 were able to play 52 tracks before crackling (S1) and throwing the Audio Engine error (logic). I will say that Logic stopped with the dialog box, S1 kept playing, just with crackling and breaking up. 

They seem about the same to me.


----------



## khollister (Oct 23, 2020)

kclements said:


> I just did a simple test (maybe I don't know what I am doing - having just started using S1)
> 
> I created a track with Omnisphere using a guitar patch - _Christmas in Grenada_ and played in a simple 4 bar phrase arpeggio holding notes and such. I duplicated that track 60 times all playing the same thing. Repeated this in Logic Pro 10.5.1
> 
> ...


 I also got similar results using a lightweight Omni patch. The problems I'm experiencing are mostly with heavier instruments like Diva, Repro or Omni multi's.

I'll try to post my Diva+Repro test that started all this later today. The studio is pretty torn apart awaiting my new desk today  Then the real fun starts by reassembling everything, finding a good spot for the subwoofer and rerunning Sonarworks to calibrate the monitors - there goes the weekend.


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## Lukas (Oct 23, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> And yes, having a keyboard shortcut to quickly traverse between automation parameters in the piano editor would be very handy.


I thought about this again. You can add as many automation lanes as you want (and there are also keyboard shortcuts for "Add automation lane" and "Remove automation lane") so you could quickly add the next parameter in a new automation lane by shortcut. Now if you say, you want to traverse between automation parameters - which of the displayed automation lanes should this applied to?



ALittleNightMusic said:


> Similar to that, would be something like a "Show all used parameters" or parameter presets that I could recall. These are all workflow improvements that speed things up.


Actually this already happens automatically. If you record some CCs like CC14, CC15, Attack Time, Sustain Pedal, these are automatically added to the tab bar.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 23, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Actually this already happens automatically. If you record some CCs like CC14, CC15, Attack Time, Sustain Pedal, these are automatically added to the tab bar.



Yes, but you have to click each of them. _One_ single button for 'all (with data)' would be better.


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## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

Or simply toggle between them all, one after the other?


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## Lukas (Oct 23, 2020)

kclements said:


> Or simply toggle between them all, one after the other?


In which lane (if you have opened five)?


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## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

Lukas said:


> In which lane (if you have opened five)?


Yeah - I see what you mean. In Logic - I don't open more than one lane and just switch between views (cc11, ModWheel....)

Maybe they could make a lane "active" and have key commands for the active lane?


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## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

Maybe th


khollister said:


> I also got similar results using a lightweight Omni patch. The problems I'm experiencing are mostly with heavier instruments like Diva, Repro or Omni multi's.
> 
> I'll try to post my Diva+Repro test that started all this later today. The studio is pretty torn apart awaiting my new desk today  Then the real fun starts by reassembling everything, finding a good spot for the subwoofer and rerunning Sonarworks to calibrate the monitors - there goes the weekend.



Ahh - sorry. I tried again using a Multi from The Unfinished (I don't have Colossal) But Studio one starts cracking at 5 tracks where Logic makes it to 10. So I can see what you are saying.


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## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

I should add, that Studio One is the first DAW that has got me seriously thinking about leaving Logic. I tried (and bought) Reaper, and there are things to like about it. But it quickly faded when I needed to get work done. S1 seems to fit a bit better with a)what I'm used to with Logic and 2) how my brain works.

I do find it a bit ironic that the menu command for Keyboard Shortcuts... doesn't have one itself. I made one but seems kind of funny. Unless I am missing it. 

Still, really impressed with S1

One thing that is going to take some work - Logic: the pointing tool is at the top of the region. S1 the pointer tool is at the bottom.


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## Ivan M. (Oct 23, 2020)

Love it so far! 
It isn't as flexible as Reaper, and I miss some features, but overall a more pleasant and convenient experience.


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## Ivan M. (Oct 23, 2020)

Maybe someone knows, can I select a few notes and stretch them as the whole phrase (not individual notes)?


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

kclements said:


> I do find it a bit ironic that the menu command for Keyboard Shortcuts... doesn't have one itself. I made one but seems kind of funny. Unless I am missing it.



Could you clarify what exactly do you mean?


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## khollister (Oct 23, 2020)

Here is the Diva + Repro test project that started the performance discussion in this thread. I'm including the S1 and Cubase versions. On my system, Cubase can play all 12 Diva instances and 6 Repro instances without issue. In S1 I have to disable 6 of the Diva tracks to get it to reliably play.

Or maybe not - it appears the forum won't let me upload Cubase or S1 project files. Here's a Dropbox link to my public folder with the 2 files.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 23, 2020)

I am enjoying using it a bit and learning about it and there is a lot to like. But not enough to make me switch from Logic and for new people, Logic is $200 less, and gives you stuff it doesn’t, notably Drummer and Quick Sampler.

In my upcoming book, I do write about Live Loops and the Step Sequencer, which many users are excited about but I will probably never use personally, but they re there for those who want them.

But I think Studio One has taken some good things from both Logic and Cubase and developed a smart DAW, aand I understand that if you buy a Presonus audio interface, you can upgrade from the free version for a discount, and their audio interfaces are damned decent for the money.

I am amused that once again, the developers are German


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I am enjoying using it a bit and learning about it and there is a lot to like. But not enough to make me switch from Logic and for new people, Logic is $200 less, and gives you stuff it doesn’t, notably Drummer and Quick Sampler.
> 
> In my upcoming book, I do write about Live Loops and the Step Sequencer, which many users are excited about but I will probably never use personally, but they re there for those who want them.
> 
> ...



Yes, developers are located in Germany. And one or two of main devs were developing Cubase before.

And what's the problem with Sample One in Studio one? AFIK it has all functions QS has.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 23, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I am amused that once again, the developers are German


But to be honest, of both ex-employee ĝerman DAWs I prefer Bitwig.



Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Yes, developers are located in Germany. And one or two of main devs were developing Cubase before.


Two prominent ones, but one left (to EW, IIRC) years ago.


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## Ozinga (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> And what's the problem with Sample One in Studio one? AFIK it has all functions QS has.



Slicing and auto key detection of Logic Q Sampler comes to mind.


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## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Could you clarify what exactly do you mean?



The menu doesn't have a default key command to open the Key Commands window. I made one on the Mac, but it seems funny. Unless there is one and it doesn't show up?









in other words, can you open the Key Commands window without going to the menu?


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## Lukas (Oct 23, 2020)

kclements said:


> I do find it a bit ironic that the menu command for Keyboard Shortcuts... doesn't have one itself. I made one but seems kind of funny. Unless I am missing it.


 I assigned Ctrl+K to it (I'm on Windows).



Ivan M. said:


> Maybe someone knows, can I select a few notes and stretch them as the whole phrase (not individual notes)?


Yes, sure. Select the notes, click there end, then hold Alt (Option on Mac) while dragging the note. Does not only work with the last note of the selection, you can also drag a note in the middle... to correct the timing in some passages. I often use that.


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## Lukas (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Yes, developers are located in Germany. And one or two of main devs were developing Cubase before.


More than four...


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

kclements said:


> The menu doesn't have a default key command to open the Key Commands window. I made one on the Mac, but it seems funny. Unless there is one and it doesn't show up?
> 
> 
> 
> ...








There are two options:
"App." stands for the menu of shortcuts
"Help" stands for HTML file with all your present shortcuts(if you want to print it or something). 

There is also an option to import and export shortucts. You can import shortcuts from Cubase, ProTools, Logic and some other DAWs.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

Lukas said:


> More than four...


Wow, I didn't know that. That's a lot. No wonder Cubase was going down for a long period of time🤭


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## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> There are two options:
> "App." stands for the menu of shortcuts
> "Help" stands for HTML file with all your present shortcuts(if you want to print it or something).
> 
> There is also an option to import and export shortucts. You can import shortcuts from Cubase, ProTools, Logic and some other DAWs.



Ah - thanks. I did a search and must have missed it. Does seem funny, though, that you have to assign it and it is "hard-wired" into the program, like Prefs is. Thanks.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

Ozinga said:


> Slicing and auto key detection of Logic Q Sampler comes to mind.



But there is slicing in Sample one, too. But there isn't key detection(honestly, I don't see the point having it in such samplers - it can be important in browsers and in processors, but not sure about samplers).


----------



## Andy_P (Oct 23, 2020)

There must really be some stubborn people at Steinberg and Ableton as both Studio One and Bitwig fulfills the long requested workflow features of the aforementioned ones


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## Ozinga (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> But there is slicing in Sample one, too. But there isn't key detection(honestly, I don't see the point having it in such samplers - it can be important in browsers and in processors, but not sure about samplers).



Slicing as for example slice a drum loop and play each slice with a different key and create a midi file of it if you like. (Like Ableton Live Simpler) which Sample One does not have
Key Detection is extremely useful for example drag a one shot sample file with pitch and Q Sampler puts it automatically to the right key so you can play immediately and if you change it with another file which has a different pitch it adjusts again so you do not constantly transpose the sample to correct key.
Also throw a bunch of samples to Logic Sampler(big brother) it automatically finds the root keys and creates the zones and everything and in an instance you have your full range instrument. You should really watch some tutorials to appreciate it.

For example:


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

Ozinga said:


> Slicing as for example slice a drum loop and play each slice with a different key and create a midi file of it if you like. (Like Ableton Live Simpler) which Sample One does not have
> Key Detection is extremely useful for example drag a one shot sample file with pitch and Q Sampler puts it automatically to the right key so you can play immediately and if you change it with another file which has a different pitch it adjusts again so you do not constantly transpose the sample to correct key.
> Also throw a bunch of samples to Logic Sampler(big brother) it automatically finds the root keys and creates the zones and everything and in an instance you have your full range instrument. You should really watch some tutorials to appreciate it.
> 
> For example:



Ok, have to agree, Logic samplers are better.


----------



## Ozinga (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Ok, have to agree, Logic samplers are better.



Yeah but I am sure Presonus is at works about Sample One and Impact


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> There is also an option to import and export shortucts. You can import shortcuts from Cubase, ProTools, Logic and some other DAWs.



Actually, no. You can import Studio One keymaps ('.keyscheme') and use the default keymaps of Cakewalk, Cubase, Logic and Pro Tools.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

Ozinga said:


> Yeah but I am sure Presonus is at works about Sample One and Impact


Btw, the problem with impact is not impact itself, but how multi channel plugins work on S1. This is probably one of a very few awfully implemented things in Studio one. To work with multi channel instruments(in both - midi and audio regard) is an endless pain. You can't recall multi channel instruments as a preset, it's a problem to work with audio channels of these instruments from arrange window and generally the more you add those instruments and the moral you work with them, the bigger mess you create. There are certain work arounds, but I wish they actually did something like a new type track or channel, that will work like Drum Rack from ableton or something like that. 
Actually I wound change some things in impact as well. For example, why would you use such big pads on a plugin that is barely played via touchscreen? Why not to copy Battery's approach? Maybe they should hire Battery's developers🤧


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Actually, no. You can import Studio One keymaps ('.keyscheme') and use the default keymaps of Cakewalk, Cubase, Logic and Pro Tools.


I was sure you can import those keymaps from other daws. I never used it, so I assumed that if you can import S1 keymap and they placed other daws in the list, we can import them. 

Sorry guys.


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## Lukas (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Btw, the problem with impact is not impact itself, but how multi channel plugins work on S1. This is probably one of a very few awfully implemented things in Studio one. To work with multi channel instruments(in both - midi and audio regard) is an endless pain. You can't recall multi channel instruments as a preset, it's a problem to work with audio channels of these instruments from arrange window and generally the more you add those instruments and the moral you work with them, the bigger mess you create.


Actually I find working with multi out instruments extremely convenient in Studio One. It's wrong that you can't recall multi out instruments as a preset. You can - and I do it every day with Kontakt, Addictive Drums, Impact XT etc.


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## Lukas (Oct 23, 2020)

Not quite sure what's not possible about this


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Actually I find working with multi out instruments extremely convenient in Studio One. It's wrong that you can't recall multi out instruments as a preset. You can - and I do it every day with Kontakt, Addictive Drums, Impact XT etc.


You mean with routing and all the plugins in inserts, with all sends, and you can actually having an audio channel being tied to its midi channel from different libraries? One of the main problems is that you can't tie audio channel from mixer with midi channel in arrange window, thus you have to open mixer every time you need work something out. This is a very confusing layout of the features. Don't get me wrong, it is still better than most daws, but it's not as good as it could and, probably, should be. 
Btw, like I said in one of my comments, we can't recall the entire routing via import sing data, which is weird. I assume they decided that it can problematic because those sends, that exist in original project, could or couldn't be presented in the project you're importing the data in. But why not making it like they do with plugins - just turn labels of those sends into red color and, if you need, just create those sends again.


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## Lukas (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> You mean with routing and all the plugins in inserts, with all sends, and you can actually having an audio channel being tied to its midi channel from different libraries? One of the main problems is that you can't tie audio channel from mixer with midi channel in arrange window, thus you have to open mixer every time you need work something out.


Of course you can save an instrument as a preset including all instrument output channels and their channel strips (volume, pan, insert FXs). See screenshot above. But this is a workflow for *one* instrument. It won't create you a bunch of different instrument tracks for several instruments. But I'm not sure why you would need to do this.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Of course you can save an instrument as a preset including all instrument output channels and their channel strips (volume, pan, insert FXs). See screenshot above. But this is a workflow for *one* instrument. It won't create you a bunch of different instrument tracks for several instruments. But I'm not sure why you would need to do this.



Ok, when I'm at my PC, I'll make some screenshots and show you what I mean.


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## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

Is there a way to move a region (is that what S1 calls them) to meet the playhead? So, if I use retro record, get a nice long region. I split the region at measure 12 - the front half isn't good. move my playhead to measure 1 and want the region I just split to move from 13 to measure 1 (or where ever the playhead is)

Thanks


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## Ivan M. (Oct 23, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Yes, sure. Select the notes, click there end, then hold Alt (Option on Mac) while dragging the note. Does not only work with the last note of the selection, you can also drag a note in the middle... to correct the timing in some passages. I often use that.



You even made a gif! Thanks! It works, but if you have a legato note after the note you attempt to drag, it will only adjust those two, maintaining legato, and ignore the rest. So what I need to do is move some surrounding notes for it to work on my selection.


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## Ivan M. (Oct 23, 2020)

@Lukas regarding the post above (the forum is embedding it but there are more images at the link):


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## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

Lukas said:


> I can't reproduce what you describe. Everything fine here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How do you get that yellowish box to show up and allow you to shape things? What is that box called?


----------



## EgM (Oct 23, 2020)

kclements said:


> How do you get that yellowish box to show up and allow you to shape things? What is that box called?



Transform. I actually forget that it's there, it's quite a nice feature!


----------



## Ashermusic (Oct 23, 2020)

Oh, and no Smart Tempo equivalent?


----------



## Stillneon (Oct 23, 2020)

Recent S15 convert here. Is there a way to save a preset for an External Instrument that would include its associated Aux track?


----------



## Lukas (Oct 23, 2020)

kclements said:


> Is there a way to move a region (is that what S1 calls them) to meet the playhead? So, if I use retro record, get a nice long region. I split the region at measure 12 - the front half isn't good. move my playhead to measure 1 and want the region I just split to move from 13 to measure 1 (or where ever the playhead is)


Yep. The command is "Move to Cursor" (Strg+L... or Cmd+L on Mac). This will move an event / instrument part (that's what they are called in Studio One) to the cursor. Or, if you have selected a note, this will move the note to the cursor. Related to that: If you press L, the cursor is set to the selected event or note.



kclements said:


> How do you get that yellowish box to show up and allow you to shape things? What is that box called?


The transform tool as @EgM said - but I never use this menu, I just select my notes and press Alt+T (Option + T). Much faster.



Stillneon said:


> Is there a way to save a preset for an External Instrument that would include its associated Aux track?


Do you mean the External Instrument itself or several presets with different settings for one instrument? You can configure an External Instrument and create an AUX track for this instrument (assigned to the right input of your audio interface). Then save the AUX channel as a default for this instrument and the next time you drag this External Instrument into a song, the AUX track will automatically be added (and linked to the instrument track so you can adjust the volume, pan, effects in the arrangement).


----------



## Stillneon (Oct 23, 2020)

Lukas said:


> You can configure an External Instrument and create an AUX track for this instrument (assigned to the right input of your audio interface). Then save the AUX channel as a default for this instrument and the next time you drag this External Instrument into a song, the AUX track will automatically be added (and linked to the instrument track so you can adjust the volume, pan, effects in the arrangement).
> 
> Perfect. Thank you.


----------



## macmac (Oct 23, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I am enjoying using it a bit and learning about it and there is a lot to like. But not enough to make me switch from Logic and for new people, Logic is $200 less, and gives you stuff it doesn’t, notably Drummer and Quick Sampler.


The best feature is the "Transform to audio track". Lets you convert the instrument track to audio, but it doesn't stop there. You can modify it, move it around chop out parts, etc.,...then if you convert it back to MIDI, the changes you made are reflected back in the MIDI. That's how freeze / conversions should work in all DAWs. I'm hoping Cubase will get that.


----------



## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

Logic has a Zoom selected track. Does S1 have anything like that? So I can have my tracks a smaller to medium size - when I select a track it zooms up to a size I determine. Select another track, that track zooms, the other track goes back to the smaller size. Very handy.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

kclements said:


> Logic has a Zoom selected track. Does S1 have anything like that? So I can have my tracks a smaller to medium size - when I select a track it zooms up to a size I determine. Select another track, that track zooms, the other track goes back to the smaller size. Very handy.


Yes. If I remember correctly a default shortcut is shift+s.


----------



## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Yes. If I remember correctly a default shortcut is shift+s.


Thanks - not not exactly the same, but that is better than nothing. Cheers


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## Ozinga (Oct 23, 2020)

Ivan M. said:


> @Lukas regarding the post above (the forum is embedding it but there are more images at the link):




Yes
Click and hold the right side of last selected note ( you should see the sizing tool)
Press alt/option while holding
and drag now









Dropbox - File Deleted


Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again!




www.dropbox.com


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## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

OK - between Macros and Better Touch Tool - S1 can be made to do a lot of things very quickly. Thanks for your help everyone.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

kclements said:


> Thanks - not not exactly the same, but that is better than nothing. Cheers


There are additional shortcuts for zoom options. At the bottom of arrange window you can see a zoom slider. On the slider you can find zoom options from tiny to large. For each of those zoom options you can assign a shortcut. Maybe it'll fit your workflow better, because from S1's feature set perspective it's kind of pointless to zoom one track(be it audio or midi) as it's much more convenient to work with events in an editor(you can sync editor and arrange - tap this bidiractional horizontal bars icon in midi or audio editors). I myself don't use this shift+s zoom. I assume it's a legacy option.


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## kclements (Oct 23, 2020)

Yeah - it might be a habit breaking thing. But it is fairly handy in Logic.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Oh, and no Smart Tempo equivalent?


I'm not using recording often in S1, but AFAIK "smart tempo" in Logic is implemented via ARA2 and with Celemony algorithms. ARA plug-in standard was developed by PreSonus in collaboration with Celemony(this is why S1 is far ahead of everybody else in regard of how deep all those instruments and features are integrated). So, I assume it does work in S1 as well. Also, those who new to S1 should understand that the DAW highly relies on Melodyne in advanced audio features. S1 Pro has Melodyne Essential as part of the program. To use it - just choose an audio even and hit cntr+M.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 23, 2020)

kclements said:


> Yeah - it might be a habit breaking thing. But it is fairly handy in Logic.


You know, from this perspective I think S1 could use a bunch of new features. For example, we really need this "lock height of a track" option. And this option should be... Optional - "lock folders height; lock chosen tracks' height" and so on. It's especially important for folder tracks because they're basically a dead space.


----------



## macmac (Oct 23, 2020)

kclements said:


> OK - between Macros and Better Touch Tool - S1 can be made to do a lot of things very quickly. Thanks for your help everyone.


Are you using BTT with a trackpad or the [Magic] mouse?


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## tjr (Oct 23, 2020)

I've been using Studio One for a few years now; this 5.1 update looks awesome. Thank you Presonus!


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## Ashermusic (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> but AFAIK "smart tempo" in Logic is implemented via ARA2 and with Celemony algorithms.



And you know that how? I am considered something of an Apple insider and I have no idea if that is correct or not, and the only people I know that _would_ know would never tell me because it would violate their NDAs.


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## Andy_P (Oct 23, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> I'm not using recording often in S1, but AFAIK "smart tempo" in Logic is implemented via ARA2 and with Celemony algorithms. ARA plug-in standard was developed by PreSonus in collaboration with Celemony(this is why S1 is far ahead of everybody else in regard of how deep all those instruments and features are integrated). So, I assume it does work in S1 as well. Also, those who new to S1 should understand that the DAW highly relies on Melodyne in advanced audio features. S1 Pro has Melodyne Essential as part of the program. To use it - just choose an audio even and hit cntr+M.



Hi,

I understand you are enthusiastic about Studio One but giving false or uneducated information without knowing Logic Pro or any other DAW at all is just wrong and wastes peoples time. 
Smart tempo has nothing to do with Melodyne and no Studio One does not have it (If you knew what smart tempo in Logic is you wouldn't say Studio One has it too anyway)
Or Auto Track Zoom
You do not know Logic Q Sampler's features but yet you say Stdio One Sampler has them all.

Please.
Thank You.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 24, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> And you know that how?


Because Presonus advertises (or advertised) that. Same as DP with Zynaptiq (which is really embedded). In reality ARA as standard is already dead, there are IIRC two more programs/plugins that use it.

Oh, it's 3 more (Spectralayers also supports it) 








Audio Random Access - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Ozinga (Oct 24, 2020)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Because Presonus advertises (or advertised) that. Same as DP with Zynaptic (which is really embedded). In reality ARA as standard is already dead, there are IIRC two more programs/plugins that use it.
> 
> Oh, it's 3 more (Spectralayers also supports it)
> 
> ...



I don't think Presonus advertised that Logic Smart Tempo is powered by ARA 
Also what do you mean by ARA is dead? It is far from it.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 24, 2020)

Ozinga said:


> I don't think Presonus advertised that Logic Smart Tempo is powered by ARA


Ah  



Ozinga said:


> Also what do you mean by ARA is dead? It is far from it.


There are 4 programs that use it and the implementation in anything but S1 (I haven't used ARA in Logic, so maybe there are 2 DAWs) is useless with Melodyne (the other 3 I don't use) . So that situation also won't change if it hasn't by now (ARA is almost ten years by now) 
And I prefer using Melodyne standalone or in Bitwig (that survives Melodyne crashing because of their really, really, really good plugin sandboxing), just yesterday evening Melodyne crashed S1 (which I've been using for the faster melodyne Integration :D


----------



## Ozinga (Oct 24, 2020)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Ah
> 
> 
> There are 4 programs that use it and the implementation in anything but S1 (I haven't used ARA in Logic, so maybe there are 2 DAWs) is useless with Melodyne (the other 3 I don't use) . So that situation also won't change if it hasn't by now (ARA is almost ten years by now)
> And I prefer using Melodyne standalone or in Bitwig (that survives Melodyne crashing because of their really, really, really good plugin sandboxing), just yesterday evening Melodyne crashed S1 (which I've been using for the faster melodyne Integration :D




It is more than 4 but I have to agree, none of the DAWs work with ARA2 as good as Studio One


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## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 24, 2020)

Ozinga said:


> It is more than 4 but I have to agree, none of the DAWs work with ARA2 as good as Studio One


So you have a list of other ARA plugins? 
I'm really asking out of interest, because yes, with S1 ARA actually has a great benefit.


----------



## Ozinga (Oct 24, 2020)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> So you have a list of other ARA plugins?
> I'm really asking out of interest, because yes, with S1 ARA actually has a great benefit.



No. My bad. I though you were talking about ARA supporting DAWs.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 24, 2020)

Andy_P said:


> Hi,
> 
> I understand you are enthusiastic about Studio One but giving false or uneducated information without knowing Logic Pro or any other DAW at all is just wrong and wastes peoples time.
> Smart tempo has nothing to do with Melodyne and no Studio One does not have it (If you knew what smart tempo in Logic is you wouldn't say Studio One has it too anyway)
> ...



You do realize what ARA is? It's not necessary Melodyne. For example, Studio one has features like chord and tone detection in audio and midi material(and an option to change that), it's integrated into the DAW, but had nothing to do with any plugins, but, on the same time, it uses Melodyne's algorithms. 

And yes, I've made a mistake - because Flex is an outdated thing, so I assumed that "Smart tempo" uses Melodyne algorithms, which aren't as destructive as Flex. This is really weird that they they decided to go with Flex. 

In S1 you can basically drop the file on tempo line and it will write down the entire tempo map, chasing the project's tempo. I'll spend some time in this subject and drop results here. 

Speaking of sampler. Yes, Sample One has them all(except tone detection), but some of them are not as advanced as in Logic's sampler. 

A trillion year ago I used to work on Logic and every time have an update, I watch some videos and read their release notes. This is why every time I wrote about Logic I add "As far as I know", and not "I'm sure that..." or any alternatives that imply that. Some of my assumptions were wrong, but they came from common sense(for example, why would you use Flex to timestretching these days - it ruins the sound so bad, that most of this "Smart tempo" features don't make sense(but again, from solely my point of view of course)).


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 24, 2020)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Because Presonus advertises (or advertised) that. Same as DP with Zynaptiq (which is really embedded). In reality ARA as standard is already dead, there are IIRC two more programs/plugins that use it.
> 
> Oh, it's 3 more (Spectralayers also supports it)
> 
> ...


ARA is not dead, it's just making its way to the industry. Like VST3 it was ignored for a long time. It is pointless to ignore this standart as it gives a much deeper access to audio related data, which allows much more sophisticated solutions. One of the reason people are begging iZotope to develop an ARA version of RX is exactly because of the opportunities it gives to an end user.

So ARA is as important as VST3, but DAW developers were failing to implement that(see Reaper, Logic and so on - there is an integration, but clunky one; the only developers who came close to S1 level of ARA implementation is Cubase, which is funny tbh). Just read DAW forums - literally everywhere people are begging their devs to integrate this standart.
When more and more DAWs have ARA, you'll see cascades of new plugins working via ARA.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Oct 24, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> It is pointless to ignore this standart as it gives a much deeper access to audio related data, which allows much more sophisticated solutions.



Yes, and that's also the main problem implementing it, because you have to _deeply_ integrate it in your audio engine. That's why it is a problem for DAWs that haven't been designed with such a possibility in mind (like S1 did).

What missing is a real integration of Notion and S1 (no, the 'Send to S1' and 'Send to Notion' are not what I'd call integration).

And the plugin API I have problems with is AU, because that doesn't support MIDI generation. But I've just been fiddling a bit with JUCE and MIDI plugins and in no way know múch about the VST APIs.

But don't get mé wrong, I'd love to see better integration of Melodyne and RX (use both) in all DAWs (at least that I use :D


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 24, 2020)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Yes, and that's also the main problem implementing it, because you have to _deeply_ integrate it in your audio engine. That's why it is a problem for DAWs that haven't been designed with such a possibility in mind (like S1 did).
> 
> What missing is a real integration of Notion and S1 (no, the 'Send to S1' and 'Send to Notion' are not what I'd call integration).
> 
> And the plugin API I have problems with is AU, because that doesn't support MIDI generation. But I've just been fiddling a bit with JUCE and MIDI plugins and in no way know múch about the VST APIs.



Agree. But like I said - VST3 was as problematic as ARA now(ok, maybe not that bad, but devs were trying to ignore it really hard🥴). And like I said - they'll have to find a way to implement that, because it is a next step that you just have to make, like it or not. And Cubase, despite my absolute lack of love toward this software, proved that it can be implemented as good as PreSonus(or to be very close to that level).


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 24, 2020)

@Lukas hi again. As promised, here's an explanation of what is wrong with 1)Import Song Data and 2)Routing.

*1.ISD*

I created a small test project for the example. On the first screenshot you can see the project from which we supposed to import data to another project(aka from Template to Ongoing project).
Pay attention to Sends:





Let's start to list the problems
1)These folder icons(SC and CC) do now work as folders, instead they just import the folder itself without anything it includes in the template. It is very counterintuitive, but not that problematic as you can just select the folder+the tracks\channels it includes. Unpleasant but very minor thing.





2)A more serious problem is how it imports routing. Look at the first screenshot again and pay attention to Sends, and now look at how it imports the same tracks and channels in a new project:





As you can see it doesn't import Sends at all. That makes this feature near to useless from Mixing and Sound design templates perspective.
This is the only serious problem with ISD I've stumbled upon. The rest of its features are working greate - all states of plugins are the same, I/Os are the same, multichannel instruments import with dedicated channels are in place and so on.

And actually there is another very minor problem is you can't choose where to put those channels and tracks in the arrange window - it imports everything at the end of the list and you have to move it to the right place manualy.


*1.Routing *

1)You see this "Close" track and 3 channels in a mixer, dedicated to this instrument? It's Kontakt with 3 mics output routing. I renamed the first channel to "Close" because it's the first stereo output in Kontakt and I see this name in an Arrange window which confuses a little bit. And the more project builds up, the more confusing it becmoes. Another minor, but unpleasing thing.

2)Using this "Close" track example again, imagine that you have to add a number of different instruments in the same Kontakt, each of them has at least 2 mics, but it's impossible to see them at the same time in an Arrange window(something you would want in big projects and if you aren't a big fan of classic mixing layout). The best you can do is to switch between those mics in an inspector. It would be soooo much easier if the audio channels were tied to certain midi channels. I don't know how they can implement that(maybe making automation tracks under midi channels more functional(like when you clicking on it, it shows you certaion audio channel) or something like that).

The point is to be able to create something I would call "Packs" inside the project. Where everything is logically connected and "packed". 

Regarding of routing, I would agree with you generally - S1 is indeed a better option comparing to most of other DAWs, but there are still things to improve. Besides S1 is famous for exactly this reason - making your life and work easier😎


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## Ashermusic (Oct 24, 2020)

Ozinga said:


> I don't think Presonus advertised that Logic Smart Tempo is powered by ARA



They most certainly didn’t. And what I DO know, is that APPLE says it is derived from the IOS app Music Memos.


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## Ivan M. (Oct 24, 2020)

Ozinga said:


> Yes
> Click and hold the right side of last selected note ( you should see the sizing tool)
> Press alt/option while holding
> and drag now
> ...



Ah, yes, if you click first, and then alt, it will do what it's supposed to, thanks!


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 24, 2020)

Ok, speaking of Tempo(Smart and not that Smart). 

Here's a bunch of videos about S1 Tempro features and about Smart Tempo for comparison. 
Decide what you life more. 

Also, don't forget about Groove Q feature in Studio one, that allows us to use any midi or audio file as a guiding groove for 1)the entire project or 2)particular track(s).


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## Ashermusic (Oct 24, 2020)

Faruh, Logic also has Groove quantize that works with any MIDI or audio file.

Just saying, not trying to discourage anyone from Studio One. With the little I have worked with it, I already see that if Logic were to go away, it would be my DAW.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 24, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Faruh, Logic also has Groove quantize that works with any MIDI or audio file.
> 
> Just saying, not trying to discourage anyone from Studio One. With the little I have worked with it, I already see that if Logic were to go away, it would be my DAW.



I didn't mean anything "anti-" in my posts as well 😉 
In this case I'm just implying that these two DAWs are different in their approach in this case and everyone can decide which one is better for their workflow. Or at leats to know what they sucrifice. 

I've made a mistake by judging Logic based on old memories about it and about a bunch of videos from updates. Now I spent some time watchign a reading more about these Logic's features and realized that it'll take me a few hours to sum up everything(compare it to S1, how we can do something like this in S1(and if we need it in the first place) and so on), so I just decided to give some general videos and people can look up more details themselves(if they need to). 

We almost slipped into another DAW war🤐


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## Ashermusic (Oct 24, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> We almost slipped into another DAW war🤐



Not me, ever. I candidly tell people what I like and don't like about Logic. Over the years I have been very candid about how I wished it had a "Chunks" feature like DP, how I wish we could have the Mixer instruments order separate from the Track List, how I wished it didn't frequently misbehave if you start a project before bar 1 or have more than one project open at the same time.

There are no perfect DAWs.


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## easyrider (Oct 24, 2020)

Before I submit my video to Presonus...just wanted to check if people are using quick load with latest Kontakt in Studio 1 5.1

cheers


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 24, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> There are no perfect DAWs.



Exactly. All we can do is to decide which trade-offs we can live with.


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## Lukas (Oct 24, 2020)

@Faruh Al-Baghdadi Okay, it seems to me that you have not yet internalized the concept of working with multitimbral instruments with multiple outputs in Studio One.



Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> *1.Routing *
> 
> 1)You see this "Close" track and 3 channels in a mixer, dedicated to this instrument? It's Kontakt with 3 mics output routing. I renamed the first channel to "Close" because it's the first stereo output in Kontakt and I see this name in an Arrange window which confuses a little bit. And the more project builds up, the more confusing it becmoes. Another minor, but unpleasing thing.


I'm not sure why it confuses you. Of course you have an instrument track in the Arrangement, otherwise you wouldn't be able to send notes to Kontakt. If you want your track to have a different name than your channel and/or you don't want track and channel to be linked, you can set the channel to "None" in the inspector. Of course you don't see the channelstrip in the inspector anymore... well, if that's what you want  Additionally, I think "Close" is not the right name because it does not say anything about your instrument. You would end up having 200 "Close" channels in the console.



Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> 2)Using this "Close" track example again, imagine that you have to add a number of different instruments in the same Kontakt


Why do you have to add a number of different instruments in the same Kontakt? I understand that if you want to layer them... but otherwise you could also have different instruments in different Kontakt instances. It's more flexible, easier to route in the mixer and easier to remove and add new instruments.



Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> 2)Using this "Close" track example again, imagine that you have to add a number of different instruments in the same Kontakt, each of them has at least 2 mics, but it's impossible to see them at the same time in an Arrange window(something you would want in big projects and if you aren't a big fan of classic mixing layout).


Why is it impossible? When I want all instrument outputs to be mirrored in the Arrangement, I just add some more instrument tracks and link them to the corresponding channel. You don't need to do this but you can.



Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> The best you can do is to switch between those mics in an inspector. It would be soooo much easier if the audio channels were tied to certain midi channels. I don't know how they can implement that(maybe making automation tracks under midi channels more functional(like when you clicking on it, it shows you certaion audio channel) or something like that).


I'm not totally sure if know what MIDI channels are...? "Audio channels tied to MIDI channels" does not make any sense to me. An audio channel can be linked to an instrument track. You can have one instrument track but many instrument outputs. You can have many instrument tracks going to the same instrument (on different MIDI channels if you want) but only one instrument output. And you can have as many instrument tracks as you want and multiple output channels... then you can link them if you want to, but you don't need to.

Please correct me if I'm missing your point.


----------



## samphony (Oct 24, 2020)

kclements said:


> Logic has a Zoom selected track. Does S1 have anything like that? So I can have my tracks a smaller to medium size - when I select a track it zooms up to a size I determine. Select another track, that track zooms, the other track goes back to the smaller size. Very handy.


Also option + shift will temporarily change the arrow tool into a magnifying glass which behaves the same way logic does = drag to zoom in and click to undo zoom steps!!!

also assigning Z as the toggle zoom is easy. You can also range select and zoom to the range


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 24, 2020)

Lukas said:


> @Faruh Al-Baghdadi Okay, it seems to me that you have not yet internalized the concept of working with multitimbral instruments with multiple outputs in Studio One.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure why it confuses you. Of course you have an instrument track in the Arrangement, otherwise you wouldn't be able to send notes to Kontakt. If you want your track to have a different name than your channel and/or you don't want track and channel to be linked, you can set the channel to "None" in the inspector. Of course you don't see the channelstrip in the inspector anymore... well, if that's what you want  Additionally, I think "Close" is not the right name because it does not say anything about your instrument. You would end up having 200 "Close" channels in the console.
> ...



Like I wrote, I created this project just as an example. Ofcourse I'm not naming every instrument "Close, Amb and Tree" :D 

Adding different instruments in Kontak is a pretty common practice. One instance of Kontakt takes about 400mb of RAM. Also, it is much easier to layer different instruments for one purpose(sound or SFX) in one instance of the plugin. 

Just adding instrument tracks and adding audiochannels to them it is what creates the mess. 
For example, I want to use Battery as a multi output instrument(audio outputs). There can be up to 32 mono or 16 stereo audio channels. I want to use all of them. It means I'll have to create 16 or 32 midi tracks every time I need those audio channels *manualy*(*because now this feature doesn't work via Import Song Data: every time I import created layout with Battary, it adds the instrumet, the channels and the tracks, but all these tracks are imported with default 1/2 stereo pair instead of the routing I assigned to it in the template from which I import stuff). *This stuff makes your suggestion unusable in most cases. 
If PreSonus fix this thing(when routing keeps its state, that was created in a template(same goes to Sends btw)), we can live with that(it's still not perfect solution of multi-channel instruments, but it's pretty acceptable). But it would be much better if they work out something more sophisticated regarding multi channel instrumets alongside with fixing these ISD problems. Now we can't even save multi-output preset for Drum Machines and Samplers like Battery, XLN XO and so on. Every time we need MO instrument, we have to make it manualy. Not to cool, man, not cool 😏

Linking audio outputs with midi tracks was just a suggestion(as a new option). Besides we already can do this, but it feels like a halfway solution. Like I said, we have to do all this job manually and can't even recall it later. I meant that we could have something like "special audio output" or something like that. It's a new category for audio outputs, tied to certain instrument. 

Generally, good organization and features for multi audio channel instruments is a very import part of any music and audio production environment. General templates(in which you start every project) is not the best alternative(at least, from samplers and drum machines perspective). 


Summing it all up
I truly love Studio one, but it has blind spots like these problems with ISD(doesn't import sends and drops outputs of multichannel instruments to default St1/2) and a very primitive way of handling multi channel instruments(especially in regard of I/Os).


----------



## Lukas (Oct 24, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Like I wrote, I created this project just as an example. Ofcourse I'm not naming every instrument "Close, Amb and Tree" :D


Ok 



Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Adding different instruments in Kontak is a pretty common practice. One instance of Kontakt takes about 400mb of RAM. Also, it is much easier to layer different instruments for one purpose(sound or SFX) in one instance of the plugin.


It was pretty common 15 years ago, in times when RAM was very limited and software workstations like HyperSonic, Bandstand, SampleTank were en vogue. Nowadays RAM is not a big issue anymore so everyone can have the workflow he prefers. In terms of CPU utilization, some companies (not sure if I recently read it on Native Instruments' or Spectrasonics' website) recommend using multiple plug-in instances if a multi core system is used. On my system, one instance of Kontakt takes about 120 MB of RAM. If 34 instances of Kontakt use 4 GB, I'm okay with that.



Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Just adding instrument tracks and adding audiochannels to them it is what creates the mess.
> For example, I want to use Battery as a multi output instrument(audio outputs). There can be up to 32 mono or 16 stereo audio channels. I want to use all of them. It means I'll have to create 16 or 32 midi tracks every time I need those audio channels manualy(because now this feature doesn't work via Import Song Data: every time I import created layout with Battary, it adds the instrumet, the channels and the tracks, but all these tracks are imported with default 1/2 stereo pair instead of the routing I assigned to it in the template from which I import stuff).


Well... that's not really the purpose of arrangement. If you don't have any note data (or automation data) on a track, you don't need it actually. If you want to mix these audio outputs, that's what the mixer is for. The arrangement is for... you know. Sure, everybody has his workflow. That's why you can do this. But I see the Song Data Import does not provide what you need. Did you check if there's already a feature request for that so we can push that one?


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 24, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Ok
> 
> 
> It was pretty common 15 years ago, in times when RAM was very limited and software workstations like HyperSonic, Bandstand, SampleTank were en vogue. Nowadays RAM is not a big issue anymore so everyone can have the workflow he prefers. In terms of CPU utilization, some companies (not sure if I recently read it on Native Instruments' or Spectrasonics' website) recommend using multiple plug-in instances if a multi core system is used. On my system, one instance of Kontakt takes about 120 MB of RAM. If 34 instances of Kontakt use 4 GB, I'm okay with that.
> ...




Fair point on RAM/CPU. But system's performance is not the main issue here. I understand the idea behind this classic separation and where it comes from. But S1 already has almost everything for "one window" layout. It just needs a few tweaks here and there. It's just when you're in the production process, such one window approach feels much more natural and keeps you in a flow better.

No, I didn't find any requests in this regard and I think it's pointless to make them because I'm sure they'll get lost in a million of other requests because it is not a major feature and they closed main feature request related to Import Song Data(well, technically they already implemented that, so why would they keep it opened...). But I know for sore they pay attention to forums😌

Btw, Lukas, don't you think that PreSonus have an advertising problem? Like why don't they advertise features like Import Song Data(especially the ability to just take whatever you need right from the browser). This is such a cool feature, but people often find out about by accidents and on forums 🙃.


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## Lukas (Oct 24, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> No, I didn't find any requests in this regard and I think it's pointless to make them


Not at all! I'd recommend you create one. It's not only about the number of votes... when PreSonus think about a certain feature, it's good for them to have more information about how users expect it to work.



Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Btw, Lukas, don't you think that PreSonus have an advertising problem? Like why don't they advertise features like Import Song Data(especially the ability to just take whatever you need right from the browser). This is such a cool feature, but people often find out about by accidents and on forums 🙃.


Hmmm, I don't think they have a general advertising problem... there are many people making YouTube tutorials. Gregor Beyerle did a great video on that, Marcus Huyskens did a great video... and PreSonus did a video on Song Data Import when Studio One 4 was released. I did a video (in German)... I think YouTube is a great place to explore Studio One features. But I agree... Song Data Import and especially the browser feature is worth making better known.


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## lucor (Oct 25, 2020)

Been playing around with the new update and quite enjoy it! I always preferred the Studio One workflow over Cubase and seems like that hasn't changed. 

My biggest issue so far is with the automation lanes in the midi editor. As far as I can see there is no way to assign shortcuts to different automation lane views, no? In Cubase I have a few keyboard shortcuts assigned to show "Modulation", "Velocity", "Expression" etc. and IMO it's absolutely vital for fast midi editing.
Also, why can't I remove all those automation tabs in the automation lane? I'll rarely to never use things like "After Touch", "Keyswitches" or "Pitch Bend", yet they clutter the view and make it harder to spot the things that I DO actually use.


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## Lukas (Oct 25, 2020)

lucor said:


> My biggest issue so far is with the automation lanes in the midi editor. As far as I can see there is no way to assign shortcuts to different automation lane views, no? In Cubase I have a few keyboard shortcuts assigned to show "Modulation", "Velocity", "Expression" etc. and IMO it's absolutely vital for fast midi editing.
> Also, why can't I remove all those automation tabs in the automation lane? I'll rarely to never use things like "After Touch", "Keyswitches" or "Pitch Bend", yet they clutter the view and make it harder to spot the things that I DO actually use.


Both are valid points!

@lucor Although - as I said earlier - automation lanes can't have a focus currently... so if you have opened five automation lanes... which one should chang its active tab when you press these key commands? How does that work in Cubase?


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 25, 2020)

lucor said:


> Been playing around with the new update and quite enjoy it! I always preferred the Studio One workflow over Cubase and seems like that hasn't changed.
> 
> My biggest issue so far is with the automation lanes in the midi editor. As far as I can see there is no way to assign shortcuts to different automation lane views, no? In Cubase I have a few keyboard shortcuts assigned to show "Modulation", "Velocity", "Expression" etc. and IMO it's absolutely vital for fast midi editing.
> Also, why can't I remove all those automation tabs in the automation lane? I'll rarely to never use things like "After Touch", "Keyswitches" or "Pitch Bend", yet they clutter the view and make it harder to spot the things that I DO actually use.


Yes, but there's something better(at least in my taste).
Tap plus icon and change height as you need. Then you can assign a hotkey for "show/hide" those lanes. It allows us to see automation and midi editor opened on almost entire screen. And what I like about this is I don't have to endlessly switch between those automation tabs.

Edit
The only problem with the feature that hotkey somehow doesn't work in Pattern editor. Don't know why they added it for midi editor, but didn't for the pattern one.


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## Lukas (Oct 25, 2020)

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> The only problem with the feature that hotkey somehow doesn't work in Pattern editor. Don't know why they added it for midi editor, but didn't for the pattern one.


Works fine here.


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## Faruh Al-Baghdadi (Oct 25, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Works fine here.


 The point is to make it work like in midi editor where with dedicated shortcut you can hide these lanes completely.


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## Lukas (Oct 25, 2020)

Well, what you said before is the key command wouldn't work at all  It does - but the Pattern Editor apparently needs to have at least *one* automation lane which can't be removed.



Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Don't know why they added it for midi editor, but didn't for the pattern one.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 25, 2020)

So my CPU issues were solved by setting the dropout protection to maximum with block size 1024. I _believe_ this is what Logic does automatically for you in the background.

Must say that note input in the score editor is very fast - really like that. Cubase's note editor is horrible and needs an update in comparison.

Edit: May have spoke too soon. Is there an easy way to change the note duration in the score editor without deleting the note and re-inserting?


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## Ashermusic (Oct 25, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> So my CPU issues were solved by setting the dropout protection to maximum with block size 1024. I _believe_ this is what Logic does automatically for you in the background.
> 
> Must say that note input in the score editor is very fast - really like that. Cubase's note editor is horrible and needs an update in comparison.
> 
> Edit: May have spoke too soon. Is there an easy way to change the note duration in the score editor without deleting the note and re-inserting?




Turn on Duration Bars. Or open the Event List or an Event Float in tandem with the score editor.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 25, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Turn on Duration Bars. Or open the Event List or an Event Float in tandem with the score editor.



In studio one?


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## kclements (Oct 26, 2020)

Sounds like Logic to me.


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## Blakus (Oct 26, 2020)

I installed S1 today to check it out. I was impressed and am going to try and run a big template in it for fun soon. I found one issue though that might be a dealbreaker for me. I use analysers on my master bus as an integral part of my workflow. When dropout protection and low latency is active on any given armed track, these analysers down the chain (either on a bus, or Main out don’t work at all for the armed track, which makes working in real-time while playing an instrument more difficult. Kinda strange since ASIO guard in Cubase has no issues with this.


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## Lukas (Oct 26, 2020)

Hi Blakus,

why analyzer do you use?

Studio One automatically bypasses plug-ins which are inserted on a channel with activated low latency monitoring if these plug-ins introduce a latency of 3 ms or higher. I'm not sure if that's the case for your analyzer... but you can easily find out the latency of your analyzer ... either by opening the Performance window and select "Show Devices" or just by looking at the "Total Plug-In Delay" panel below the Sample Rate in the status bar.

For example, as soon as I insert Ozone into my master FX chain, the latency suddenly increases from 0 to > 100 ms (!).






I recently did some tests with Pro Q3 and had latencies over 1500ms. No low latency monitoring possible in this case...


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## Blakus (Oct 26, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Hi Blakus,
> 
> why analyzer do you use?
> 
> ...


The plugins are all 0 latency And that latency report says 0ms also for me. It’s something to do with the way S1 routes armed channels with low latency, it seems to go through a separate unseen processing chain or something, which I understand ASIO guard does also - except Cubase’ s works as expected. It just seems silly that it would ignore any analysers down the signal chain. If I insert the analyser on the armed channel (as opposed to the master channel) it works fine, (but that’s not practical). The problem disappears as soon as I turn off dropout protection. Btw, this is with any analyser, including one that comes with S1, I’ll keep experimenting, thanks for the help.


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## Lukas (Oct 26, 2020)

Also... did you check out the Studio One internal analyzer? I don't know your exact requirements but I really like the Studio One analyzer... it even has the "segments" algorithm (you now... the one from RME's DigiCheck  I love it).


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## kclements (Oct 26, 2020)

How are people finding Sphere? Is the additional content worth the price? I don’t think I’ll get much use from Notion, and I can cross grade to S1 but I kind of like the colab features and maybe the workshops.

Do wish Presonus had some mechanism for switching from Sphere to a full version of S1 after some time.


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## Lukas (Oct 26, 2020)

Blakus said:


> The plugins are all 0 latency And that latency report says 0ms also for me. It’s something to do with the way S1 routes armed channels with low latency, it seems to go through a separate unseen processing chain or something, which I understand ASIO guard does also - except Cubase’ s works as expected. It just seems silly that it would ignore any analysers down the signal chain. If I insert the analyser on the armed channel (as opposed to the master channel) it works fine, (but that’s not practical). The problem disappears as soon as I turn off dropout protection. Btw, this is with any analyser, including one that comes with S1, I’ll keep experimenting, thanks for the help.


Which low lacency monitoring mode do you use? Green or blue Z?

Z Mode = Single routing. Without bus / master chain on the monitoring. I normally just drag the analyzer to the single channel temporarily. Alternatively you could use Sends to send the signal to the analyzer.

Sorry...written quickly from the smartphone on the go...


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## Blakus (Oct 26, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Which low lacency monitoring mode do you use? Green or blue Z?


its just the virtual instrument monitoring while dropout protection is on. I don’t think it’s green or blue. I think I know what the problem may be, it looks like it just directly monitors the track and doesn’t process through the mix buses while the track is armed. This is a bit of a bummer! Guess I’m back to Cubase. 😂

btw the inbuilt analyser is great! There’s definitely a lot to like about S1


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## Lukas (Oct 26, 2020)

Blakus said:


> its just the virtual instrument monitoring while dropout protection is on. I don’t think it’s green or blue.


It depends on the Dropout Protection settings (Options -> Audio Setup -> Processing).



Blakus said:


> I think I know what the problem may be, it looks like it just directly monitors the track and doesn’t process through the mix buses while the track is armed. This is a bit of a bummer!


Not at all...  That would mean all reverbs / delays I have on busses wouldn't apply while I'm recording on an instrument track. Of course they do.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 26, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> In studio one?



Oops, no Logic, sorry, lost track


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## kclements (Oct 26, 2020)

macmac said:


> Are you using BTT with a trackpad or the [Magic] mouse?



Magic Mouse


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## Babe (Oct 26, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Oops, no Logic, sorry, lost track


Should be able to find your lost track with S1's new track filter feature.


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