# Suggestions for DAW to switch to from DP between Cubase and Logic? - I'm fed up.



## T-LeffoH (Mar 4, 2020)

I really don't want to reset up my whole workflow and process but I've absolutely had it with DP and MOTU.

I simply changed the Work Priority setting in a project I was mixing due this week and upon the settings being changed, DP randomly remapped the Input/Output/Bus settings of every single aux and audio track not just in the project I was working in...but every other DP project file I've ever made. Hundreds of tracks and I had to spend over 3 hours today remapping everything - and that was for just the project I needed to finish.

Is Cubase worth checking out before diving head first into Logic?


----------



## AlexRuger (Mar 4, 2020)

I went from DP to Logic to Cubase so you might as well skip the middle step and go directly to Cubase.


----------



## T-LeffoH (Mar 5, 2020)

AlexRuger said:


> I went from DP to Logic to Cubase so you might as well skip the middle step and go directly to Cubase.



Does Cubase have more similarities to DP than Logic for film scoring purposes?


----------



## Dewdman42 (Mar 5, 2020)

There are pros and cons both ways.


----------



## Ashermusic (Mar 5, 2020)

Here are three simple facts:
1. Logic Pro X is Mac only.

2. Cubase, by Steinberg's own admission to me by a rep, is more efficient on the PC than on the Mac because it is coded first on PCs.

3. Logic is considerably less expensive.


----------



## snattack (Mar 5, 2020)

Reaper is also an alternative, I'm planning on gradually transitioning to Reaper this year.

I'm currently using Logic, and it's good in many ways, but I have a couple of problems, where the following three are the most prominent:

1. The UI gets laggy when the track count goes up. This goes for all my 3 systems (Mac Pro, iMac Pro and Macbook Pro 2019), so it's not system specific. I have a very low tolerance level for this, it might be that other people don't agree with this, it's just a personal thing.

2. I'm doing more and more sound design, and Logic is not great in that area compared to Reaper & Pro Tools.

3. Reaper has the ability to save entire "track packs" that can easily be imported in to the project on the fly, including all routing and stuff fixed when loading them. That is _possible_ in Logic through the "Import Project"-function, but it's not as smooth. Single track settings can be saved through Channel Strip Presets though, which is the method I'm currently using after leaving the "1000 track template" philosophy.

A big downside for most people with Reaper is the learning curve: You can get Reaper to do exactly whatever you want, but it requires a lot of time investment learning it, looking for plugins/modules, etc. And the UI doesn't look very good, even with the best skins  But that's just how it is.

As Jay says, Cubase is better on PC than on OSX. I switched from Cubase 5 years ago because Cubase 8 kept crashing all the time. It probably had to do with something in my quite advanced Midi routing using Transmidifier, but still, there were no problems in Logic.

I don't regret using Logic, it's been a fine DAW, but because Reaper has now evolved and is becoming more and more used in the gaming industry + customization are great, I'm moving there eventually.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Mar 5, 2020)

I will also add this. None of the other daws can compete with DP’s film scoring tools. Chunks for example. Streamers and punches, hit point calculation, etc

if you use any of those features in DP you may be frustrated. I don’t know why Dp would have done such drastic thing to your project by changing the work priority but you might want to consider reaching out to their tech support to see if it’s resolvable.

that being said, I have considered DP multiple times over the years but always end up frustrated by some little this or that thing which I find too cumbersome to stand it. I do wish I had chunks though.


----------



## JohnG (Mar 5, 2020)

In general, these discussions suffer from commitment bias (people cheer for what they chose) and lack of knowledge. Frequently, people say, "Logic can't do this..." or "DP can't do that..." when quite often those typing abandoned years ago the DAW they're criticising. So their critique is often out of date.

Sorry for the OP having that problem though. Horrible.

I'm still on DP and hope it keeps working another 20 years.


----------



## AlexRuger (Mar 5, 2020)

T-LeffoH said:


> Does Cubase have more similarities to DP than Logic for film scoring purposes?


I'm not sure what you mean by "film scoring features." I'm probably a bad guy to ask because I never use something like a tempo calculator -- I just sketch on a track with a timecode time base (as opposed to bars and beats) and fiddle with tempo until it matches my sketch, and then build from there.

No DAW besides DP does punchers and streamers, so if that's what you mean, you'll be disappointed wherever you go. Though, in the age of click tracks, I've never understood why they matter anymore, and everyone should probably just be using Video Slave (which does have punchers/streamers/more) for hosting picture anyway.

Ditto with chunks, neither of these DAWs has that feature, which is a shame. It's one of the few things that DP does that I think is totally brilliant (name aside).

Clearly great music has been made in all three, and I _really _don't care to get into an argument (because if you take offense at someone not liking your DAW, you're, like, twelve), and these sorts of discussions always tend to go that way, so if it does, I'm out. But here's my $0.02:

Cubase is just objectively more capable than Logic (and DP) in terms of MIDI workflow. Audio editing is more or less equal across the board, the pros and cons even out, but Cubase is the king of MIDI. It's also the environment best-suited for building large templates. Since you're a film composer, this all will more than likely matter to you far more than whatever you mean by "film scoring features."

I know all three DAWs very, very well, and Cubase's workflow is simply faster than both here -- manipulating MIDI data requires fewer steps and has more and more nuanced tooling. I jump back into Logic and DP every now and then after an update and give them another chance, because there are things I really like about them and Cubase isn't perfect, but I always end up missing certain features, the absence of which make it feel like I'm fighting the DAW. There's more "friction," and I don't want that -- I want my thoughts to be transferred to music as close to immediately as possible, and Cubase is the closest I've found, some quirks (as all DAWs have) aside. I was in DP and Logic for about 4 years each before moving to Cubase and have worked professionally in all three -- my point here is that you can trust me when I use the word "objective." It really is the best tool for the job if you're MIDI or template heavy.

There's a lot of info out there about this, so I'd suggest searching the forum for the million discussions of this sort that have already happened, but more importantly you should just dive in and try the 30 day trial. Logic doesn't have one, so you might as well do the free thing before committing to spending $200 on a DAW you're not sure you'll like. If you absolutely hate Cubase, Logic is the cheaper option, so this seems to be the most logical route to go.


----------



## Ashermusic (Mar 5, 2020)

Alex you’re going to have to prove it to me that you can edit MIDI faster in Cubase than I can in Logic with my key commands.

Totally agree with the brilliance of DP’s Chunks feature, would _kill_ to have it in Logic. Project Alternatives is the closest workflow but not as nifty.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Mar 5, 2020)

There are pros and cons with all of these daws no matter what anyone says it will always come down to personal preference.


----------



## stigc56 (Mar 5, 2020)

I do agre with AlexRuger on this. Also been working with all 3 for years. Cubase is "King of Midi", and The VST Expression System is better although Logic has been improving in this field too. Logic IS king on CPU use AND the visual appearance is also way more tastier in Logic I think.
Cubase has a lot of small details that I find my self using almost every day:
The Listen function in the mixer, lets you lower the volume on ALL tracks but the one selected, so in a really dense orchestral arrangement you can take a quick listen to the harp ex. So it's not solo but just a focus on the selected track!
The possibility to have the grid in the piano roll reflect the swing factor in the quantization! The possibility to color midi events to reflect how close they are to the grid, really useful for error checking. The ability to revert a crescendo to a diminuendo in the midi editor and still preserving the dynamic relation in the midi part! And all the macros with the key commands.
Go with Cubase!


----------



## JohnG (Mar 5, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> Left DP for Logic and very quickly went right back to DP.



Do you remember why? Just familiarity, or features, or something else?


----------



## dcoscina (Mar 5, 2020)

T-LeffoH said:


> Does Cubase have more similarities to DP than Logic for film scoring purposes?


I think Cubase is more similar than Logic. I used DP for 6 years and then moved to Logic X but then onto Cubase. For orchestral writing I find it closest to DP for workflow


----------



## dcoscina (Mar 5, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Here are three simple facts:
> 1. Logic Pro X is Mac only.
> 
> 2. Cubase, by Steinberg's own admission to me by a rep, is more efficient on the PC than on the Mac because it is coded first on PCs.
> ...


One of the things I like in Cubase are multiple midi cc lanes. DP has moved to this but LPX seems to be fixed on a single midi cc only. Workflow wise it’s a bit of a hassle compared to Cubase. Tho I just recently scored a short film in LPX because it’s video is better integrated in my experience than Cubase (i do everything on a single MP 6,1).


----------



## Symfoniq (Mar 5, 2020)

I own both Cubase and Logic, but have used Cubase for a much longer period of time. That said, recently I've been reaching for Logic first. While there are certain Cubase features I really appreciate (Control Room, Mixer), I find it generally clunky compared to Logic (a feeling that never went away after many years of use), and unlike some here, I don't find Cubase's MIDI capabilities to be appreciably better than Logic's. For example, check out Mike Baggström's video on the Logic piano roll:



Cubase does have more features than Logic, but they are sometimes half-baked (I've given up on Cubase's expression maps for this reason). When Logic gets new features, they usually seem more polished/less buggy.

The elephant in the room is that while Logic is much cheaper than Cubase, the "dongle" (Macintosh) costs quite a bit more than a comparable PC. Only you can decide if the Apple tax is worth it.

But speaking of dongles, it's another strike against Cubase if you ever intend to do any mobile composing. Sometimes I wonder what century companies like Steinberg and VSL are living in.


----------



## JohnG (Mar 5, 2020)

Honestly, if you're going to do much beyond messing around on the weekend, the up-front cost seems immaterial when balanced against the gargantuan task the OP has set himself of learning a new DAW.

I think it always ends up with one thing: familiarity.


----------



## stigc56 (Mar 5, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> Additionally, DP has excellent and very accessible tech support


From my DP time I must say that I have never experienced a more unfriendly user forum than the MotuNation, and I know that they are not to be confused with Motu.


----------



## JohnG (Mar 5, 2020)

stigc56 said:


> From my DP time I must say that I have never experienced a more unfriendly user forum than the MotuNation, and I know that they are not to be confused with Motu.



I have to agree there -- the tech support is great but there are some Class-A tools on that forum.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Mar 5, 2020)

MOTU's tech support is excellent I can definitely vouch for that. LogicPro's tech support is non-existent. User forums only. Cubase has tech support but I have found them to be scattered and never solved or answered my problem. It feels like its out-sourced to me, but who knows. MOTU has always done what they can.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Mar 5, 2020)

V-Racks are pretty cool on their own, but yes, it doesn't make up for some of what VePro can do. Also the automation options are limited, etc.. I don't think V-Racks make up for VePro personally. The main advantage of V-Racks is that you can setup your orch template and then have multiple chunks using the same V-Rack...which is a lot like VePro, but of course VePro can be put on a separate machine if desired. That and VePro has much better automation mapping support compared to V-Racks. Cubase has a rack too, but its largely irrelevant because there is nothing similar as chunks. IMHO


----------



## NYC Composer (Mar 5, 2020)

Anecdotal experience:

I’ve been using Cubase since ‘97 and mostly been happy with the revisions that actually worked  however, I stayed in Cubase 6 for the past 8 years until very recently-it rarely crashed and just worked, but my 2008 Mac Pro was pretty challenged for what I wanted to do, so 2 months ago I bought the new iMac non pro i9, loaded it with Cubase 10.5 and painstakingly built a template in VEP 6.
It’s been a nightmare.

I’m now on 10.12. My 50 GB template idles near 50%, crashes often, and both VEP and Cubase crash on load about 66% of the time unless I restart or shut down, in which case it’s more like 50% of the time. 

If you do go with Cubase, I’d buy the latest and downgrade to the last version of 10.05 until they straighten this craziness out.

Oh-and if you’re planning on using a lot of CPU and want to run at low latency, I’d go with Logic. I may actually try to switch though the last thing I want to do is start over. It’s just frustrating.


----------



## musicalweather (Mar 5, 2020)

Lots of good info on this thread. If you're interested in taking a deep dive into each DAW and doing an apples-to-apple comparison, I'd suggest heading over to Admiral Bumblebee's site. He's got a DAW Features chart that rates the capabilities of each DAW. And he's got _tons_ of articles and videos on each DAW which provide lots of really helpful information. Highly recommended.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 5, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Frequently, people say, "Logic can't do this..." or "DP can't do that..." when quite often those typing abandoned years ago the DAW they're criticising. So their critique is often out of date.



Or more often than not there's a different way of doing whatever it is that's just as good.

Logic, DP, Cubase, and Pro Tools have all been worked on for decades by people who are not the least bit stupid, under intense competition. They're all highly refined, but they're still software - and there is no software that doesn't have bugs.


----------



## T-LeffoH (Mar 5, 2020)

I appreciate the various feedback and, admittedly, didn't mean to stoke any heated apples vs oranges vs pears comparison which has occurred multiple times already on this forum - given I was typing the original post amidst being more than moderately annoyed, sleep deprived and simultaneously typing up the support ticket to MOTU.

I've used DP for over 15 years and appreciate a lot about it; however, the idea that one setting change broke unrelated detail in countless other project files is just inexcusable to me. I have no idea how stuff like that gets into production software releases.

I guess the positive is I have a week of vacation coming up to think about it.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Mar 5, 2020)

Well the only thing I can think is for some reason it changed your bundle settings, but doubt it touched any actual dp project files. You should really contact motu support and try to get to the bottom of it


----------



## Alex Fraser (Mar 5, 2020)

I'm not qualified to comment on Cubase as the last time I used it was in 1999. 

IMO, it's less about the specific features of each DAW (unless there's something _really particular_ you want to do) but more about the DAW matching your mindset and logic.

The best software matches "how you would do things" - with the developers solving problems and introducing new features and processes you understand intuitively. Using software that's designed by someone who thinks differently to you can be a nightmare.

So my suggestion to the OP would be to somehow test-drive both Logic and Cubase and see which is the natural fit, rather than laser focusing on individual features.


----------



## jcrosby (Mar 5, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> I'm not qualified to comment on Cubase as the last time I used it was in 1999.
> 
> IMO, it's less about the specific features of each DAW (unless there's something _really particular_ you want to do) but more about the DAW matching your mindset and logic.
> 
> ...


Very well said. This is exactly why I wound up not liking cubase. Just seemed like they’ve tried to cram way to many ideas into one daw, and at least for me the implementation seemed erratic...

logic isn’t perfect, but one thing I will give the logicteam credit for is that when they do add a feature it basically stays the same way as when implemented. And, in the rare instance they change or update something it’s usually very well thought out. It’s definitely not everyone’s cup of tea for sure, but it’s evolution is at least some what logical and consistent


----------



## T-LeffoH (Mar 5, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Well the only thing I can think is for some reason it changed your bundle settings, but doubt it touched any actual dp project files. You should really contact motu support and try to get to the bottom of it



As I mentioned, I did submit a ticket. They asked for a copy of the file so will wait to hear back from them. I've opened a few dozen older projects which were using the same template and contained in the same storage folder, they all have the same issue. I finally found an older project, contained in a different folder, which appears to have not been impacted in the same way. It's just bizarre.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Mar 5, 2020)

It’s the way they are referencing a more global setting. Fix the global setting. Hopefully motu can help you


----------



## T-LeffoH (Mar 5, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> It’s the way they are referencing a more global setting. Fix the global setting. Hopefully motu can help you



Maybe, tho I'd be surprised. It's the same unchanged template I've used for over a year. The only modified settings are sometimes the buffer size and in this instance the Work Priority value was the only thing changed which led to the issue.

I'll certainly share with the forum any specific feedback I get from MOTU support.


----------



## Dave Connor (Mar 5, 2020)

T-LeffoH said:


> I simply changed the Work Priority setting in a project I was mixing due this week and upon the settings being changed, DP randomly remapped the Input/Output/Bus settings of every single aux and audio track not just in the project I was working in...but every other DP project file I've ever made. Hundreds of tracks and I had to spend over 3 hours today remapping everything - and that was for just the project I needed to finish.


You are in DP9 or above no doubt. I still use DP8 because that sort of crippling behavior was happening on a few fronts. DP10 had a very rough launch as I understand. I wonder if Pros have settled on a later version of 10.

I’m always completely sympathetic when someone rails against later versions of DP. Very nice features have been gone for years including a remote DAW control app which has caused me endless grief.

I go to Motunation with a question now and then. There are some civil chaps over there but it is one of the more insular forums and people can be more critical than helpful at times.


----------



## jmauz (Mar 5, 2020)

Well, for what it's worth, over the past 10 years or so I've gone from DP to Logic to PT to Logic to Cubase. 

For me, being what I call a music maker (composer, drummer, producer, arranger...in that order mostly) Cubase has been the best DAW in terms of workflow and reliability. Logic is a close second, but I find Cubase to be easier in terms of customizability.


----------



## Monkey Man (Mar 5, 2020)

stigc56 said:


> From my DP time I must say that I have never experienced a more unfriendly user forum than the MotuNation, and I know that they are not to be confused with Motu.


A few bad apples don't an unfriendly forum make, of course.

Sounds like you may have encountered an untamed beast or two, and honestly, I'm sorry the whole community somehow came across as unfriendly. It was the first forum I ever joined, and my sensitive, naive self only felt violated once, and that was after many years there. As I suggested - untamed beast.

Overall the support and understanding, as well as in-depth knowledge of many things including DP over there, did me the world of good and I therefore look fondly upon the place. There is a good number of very-decent folk over there, so again, I'm so sorry to hear that you were spooked.

You're far from the first to say this, but I felt it fair to point out that it's _never_ the majority that's responsible for this sort of thing, and invariably a roll of the dice between a couple of members. You could count their number on one hand twice, so as I've implied, it irks me somewhat that a whole forum tends to be judged harshly for the _few_ bad apples.


----------



## kgdrum (Mar 5, 2020)

Monkey Man said:


> A few bad apples don't an unfriendly forum make, of course.
> 
> Sounds like you may have encountered an untamed beast or two, and honestly, I'm sorry the whole community somehow came across as unfriendly. It was the first forum I ever joined, and my sensitive, naive self only felt violated once, and that was after many years there. As I suggested - untamed beast.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with my Monkey friend 😘

I’ve been a Motunation member for too many years.
There’s some very knowledgeable helpful people over there and it’s really a great forum.
Yes it’s members tend to have a DP-centric orientation and a few can be opinionated,dismissive on things not DP but on the whole it’s great resource.
fwiw over the years I see this on every forum in some shade or form.
There’s always some great helpful members, a few characters and a few morons. Each forum has a particular 
ratio of these type of members ,the other variable is the forums focus or premise.
Here @ VI-C it’s VI’s midi Samples
@ Motunation it’s primarily DP / MOTU relative to DAW/midi
But I’ll find great member at both forums as well as characters and a few morons.
It comes with the territory.
If you have a major problem with DP MOTU tech support is great but every now and then some very smart DP users on Motunation will come through with a tip or knowledgeable solution that you might not figure out anywhere else.
And believe it or not a few members there are some of my favorite oldest internet friends.

😍


----------



## Michael Antrum (Mar 7, 2020)

T-LeffoH said:


> I've used DP for over 15 years and appreciate a lot about it; however, the idea that one setting change broke unrelated detail in countless other project files is just inexcusable to me. I have no idea how stuff like that gets into production software releases.
> 
> I guess the positive is I have a week of vacation coming up to think about it.



I remember when a VE Pro update (v6 I think it was) broke everyone's internet connection and prevented you from getting online..... I think it was a Mac only issue - but of course if you don't have internet access and only one computer it makes getting the fix (which took a couple of days) rather awkward.

They took a fair bit flack over that one.

But as for DAW's, you should definitely choose Cubase. You will be more attractive to hot women, it will reduce your appetite and help with weight loss, and of course my favourite feature is the new 'auto create a platinum seller whilst making no effort whatsoever' button, which is a personal favourite.

As we all know, the grass is always greener on the other side....

Personally, since Staffpad came out, I've been using that more and more, but of course its primarily only for orchestral composition


----------



## snattack (Mar 8, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Alex you’re going to have to prove it to me that you can edit MIDI faster in Cubase than I can in Logic with my key commands.



I find the "editing midi" term a bit vague. But: One big downside with Logic compared to Cubase is that the Transformer presets cannot be called with keyboard shortcuts. That is very much in favor of Cubase for advance midi editing and repetitive tasks that can be automated and called. I don't understand why this isn't an option in Logic.


----------



## InLight-Tone (Mar 8, 2020)

Also in Logic, I do miss Cubase' CC box that let's you skew midi CC's in all sorts of directions and proportionately fluidly...


----------



## vewilya (Mar 8, 2020)

snattack said:


> I find the "editing midi" term a bit vague. But: One big downside with Logic compared to Cubase is that the Transformer presets cannot be called with keyboard shortcuts. That is very much in favor of Cubase for advance midi editing and repetitive tasks that can be automated and called. I don't understand why this isn't an option in Logic.


Yes you can call transformer presets with keyboard shortcuts!


----------



## Ashermusic (Mar 8, 2020)

The Logic Pros: Automate tedious MIDI edits into a single-click with Logic's Transform feature


In this week’s episode of The Logic Pros, we will be looking at ways to speed up our editing and song creation with LPX’s MIDI Transform feature. In many cases, manually working Logic’s Piano Roll editor will get the job done, but there are certainly times when editing MIDI performances/events...




9to5mac.com


----------



## samphony (Mar 8, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> The Logic Pros: Automate tedious MIDI edits into a single-click with Logic's Transform feature
> 
> 
> In this week’s episode of The Logic Pros, we will be looking at ways to speed up our editing and song creation with LPX’s MIDI Transform feature. In many cases, manually working Logic’s Piano Roll editor will get the job done, but there are certainly times when editing MIDI performances/events...
> ...


The whole transform approach needs an overhaul. I’ve sent various feature requests that allow transform set management as well as renaming transform sets so we don’t need to remember “what was transform set 12 again???”

same goes for logic remote key commands. We s should have the ability to rename key commands or in an ideal world we would create a transform set > it’s name gets projected in the key commands > gets projected in logic control!

and of course everyone reading this if you want things to be improved in logic please use the feedback feature in the logic menu bar!


----------



## Ashermusic (Mar 9, 2020)

Sure it could be improved. But for now, as is usually the case with Logic Pro, there is a workaround. Just type the names of the Transform sets in the Notepad in a Logic project.


----------



## InLight-Tone (Mar 9, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Sure it could be improved. But for now, as is usually the case with Logic Pro, there is a workaround. Just type the names of the Transform sets in the Notepad in a Logic project.


I use labeled buttons in a page in Metagrid...


----------



## Supremo (Mar 9, 2020)

No other DAW will beat Reaper in terms of functionality + CPU efficiency + versatility. An aggregate of all these components makes Reaper to stand out in the competition. Switch to Reaper and you'll never regret.


----------



## Ashermusic (Mar 9, 2020)

Supremo said:


> No other DAW will beat Reaper in terms of functionality + CPU efficiency + versatility. An aggregate of all these components makes Reaper to stand out in the competition. Switch to Reaper and you'll never regret.



I would, and here is why:

The simple fact is that for most users who use a DAW for a very long time, it conditions you to think the way _it_ thinks. so now when you go to another and it does things differently, your first reaction may well be, "Well, that's wrong!"


I have used Logic for _thousands_ of hours. The only way I would ever use another is if someone were to contact me and say,"Jay I need your help with a project. It pays $10,000 but you have to do it in (fill in the blanks.)"


----------



## snattack (Mar 12, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> The Logic Pros: Automate tedious MIDI edits into a single-click with Logic's Transform feature
> 
> 
> In this week’s episode of The Logic Pros, we will be looking at ways to speed up our editing and song creation with LPX’s MIDI Transform feature. In many cases, manually working Logic’s Piano Roll editor will get the job done, but there are certainly times when editing MIDI performances/events...
> ...


!!!???

Didn't you and I talk about this in a PM a while back @Ashermusic ?  I had no idea. Thanks!


----------



## T-LeffoH (Mar 17, 2020)

UPDATE

I received an initial response from MOTU support asking me to send back an affected DP project file.

Upon sending it, the response I received from the MOTU support technician was this...

"I took a look at this project, and specifically, the Bundles window. I'm not quite sure what's going on here. It looks like you might be playing Tetris...? 😂"​
And yes, I was sent an emoticon in a support ticket...

I'm not sure what bothers me more about it - a) the lack of serious inquisitiveness to determine the root cause of the issue or b) the fact that I told them what setting I changed, then what happened after changing it, and the first step they took was to look at the state of the Bundles window in the project file - which I haven't touched in this template in over a year.

It seems like a better first step was to attempt doing what I told them I did in another project file of their own and see what happens. The last response I received from them was *10 days ago*.

I just got back from vacation and have constant deliverables over the next two weeks so really don't feel compelled to babysit getting a response from them but this is probably the last straw for me in dealing with MOTU and I will likely switch to something else.


----------



## Monkey Man (Mar 17, 2020)

Didn't you say your routings got screwed up?

If so, it'd make sense to look at the Bundles window 'cause it might provide a clue to someone in-the-know as to what / how it happened.

That support-ticket thing is strange; it's not what we DP users have experienced over many years. Is the quote out-of-context or something? If not, as I said, it sure is strange.

Sad to see you leave the fold, mate. Good luck with the switch. ❤


----------



## T-LeffoH (Mar 17, 2020)

Monkey Man said:


> Didn't you say your routings got screwed up?
> 
> If so, it'd make sense to look at the Bundles window 'cause it might provide a clue to someone in-the-know as to what / how it happened.
> 
> That support-ticket thing is strange; it's not what we DP users have experienced over many years. Is the quote out-of-context or something? If not, as I said, it sure is strange.



Yes, nearly every single routing was screwed up but then I would _expect_ the Bundles settings to be screwed up as a byproduct of the issue that was caused. However, given I did not touch any of the Bundles settings directly, I would never think of it as a root cause of the issue. In all of the unaffected previous projects using the same template, there was nothing unusual in the Bundles settings.

And the quote is literally word-for-word from the ticket, the rest was - _"Am I missing something? Please let me know if this looks correct or not." - _which in its entirety, to be quite frank, I found a bit insulting more than strange.


----------



## Monkey Man (Mar 21, 2020)

I didn't say or imply it could've been a root cause, only that "it _might provide a clue_ to someone in-the-know as to what / how it happened".

You can see echoes of practically any toxicity, disease or trauma a body experiences by looking closely at, say, the eyes, finger nails, hair... anything I can think of, really; it's just a matter of knowing what to look for.

That's the mode of thinking I was in when I suggested that. Unless there're other areas of the app that were commensurately-corrupted, the Bundles Window is the obvious, logical candidate for inspection, at least at the GUI level where undercurrents are revealed.


----------

