# Cinematic Studio Woodwinds



## Kony

Just wondering if anyone has a clue when this might be released? There is no info on the Cinematic Studio website and no announcement has been made yet.

--------------------------------
[MODERATOR NOTE: Developer's release announcement here: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/cinematic-studio-woodwinds.76951/post-4737533]


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## Henu

So it begins.


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## Kony

Well, it was to deal with questions being asked in a commercial announcement thread for CSB so thought I'd try to move the discussion for CSW over here in sample talk


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## constaneum

that's too quick to be discussed. probably a year or two.


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## leon chevalier

*CINEMATIC STUDIO BUMP !* 

(Still feel so good !)


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## btparic

I expect this thread will be my new home for the next 2 years xD


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## Raphioli

lol We need to think ahead and guess what the next "Cinematic Studio XXXX ?" thread will be? 

BTW, the Cinematic Studio series threads having a "?" mark at the end made me chuckle.


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## HelixK

See you all in page 19.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

I get the feeling that some people are actually more interested in buying stuff and parking their money somewhere than actually using products and making music.


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## Kony

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I get the feeling that some people are actually more interested in buying ... and ... using products and making music.


Yes, I agree


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## Lionel Schmitt

2 years more years of torture


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## lucor

I think woodwinds are a bit easier to sample than brass, which makes me cautiously hopeful that we won't have to wait for them as long as for the brass.


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## I like music

Makes me realise how bad I am at actually using and learning the stuff I already paid good money for.


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## ScoreFace

lucor said:


> I think woodwinds are a bit easier to sample than brass, which makes me cautiously hopeful that we won't have to wait for them as long as for the brass.



Don't know if I would agree here - I think in both instrument groups there are certain instruments that are a real challenge to be sampled in a realistic way. Yet I'm sure that the guys would do a great job with woodwinds!


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## rottoy

I'm just hoping Alex will sample a really great oboist.
Apart from the Berlin Woodwinds Exp B oboe and the 8Dio Claire Oboe, 
there isn't a single sampled oboe that I've taken a liking to.


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## lucor

ScoreFace said:


> Don't know if I would agree here - I think in both instrument groups there are certain instruments that are a real challenge to be sampled in a realistic way.


Definitely, I was thinking more because of logistical reasons. I'm pretty sure brass players are a lot more strained during these recording sessions, resulting in the need of more recording sessions, which results in more money and time spent... Also, creating smooth crossfades for brass is probably a lot harder due to them having much more extreme timbral changes.


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## Gerbil

lucor said:


> I think woodwinds are a bit easier to sample than brass, which makes me cautiously hopeful that we won't have to wait for them as long as for the brass.


 
I don't know...I've not really come across any library that comes close to catching the real diverse character of woodwinds and I have nearly all of them except the Fluffyaudio set. Cinewinds are much improved but still limited, Berlin and Spitfire I've been quite disappointed with given the price they cost (not that they're bad but they are quite stunted in terms of flexibility). Eastwest's Hollywood Winds aren't really any worse so I don't really get why they're considered a step down; they have their good and bad points just like the others. VSL remain the best in terms of flexibility although I find them a chore to mix so don't use them very much. Audio Modeling and Wallander are brilliantly playable with the aid of a breath controller (and inspiring to use as a result) but I think lack the sound for exposed parts.

Nobody, not one developer, has really managed to capture a fully flexible decent oboe. Berlin have done ok with their Exp B but it's very limited. The clarinet as an instrument has a fantastic dynamic range but there's nothing out there that goes from hollow whisper to raucous scream with all the beauty in between from any developer. It's usually a case of stiching bits of this and that together. Flutes and bassoons have fared a bit better but there's still massive room for improvement.

I'm not quite convined that Cinematic Samples will be the answer as they are, by nature, bare bones libraries. Great sound but basic by design. I would love for someone to come out with the mother of all woodwind libraries!


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## lucor

Gerbil said:


> I don't know...I've not really come across any library that comes close to catching the real diverse character of woodwinds and I have nearly all of them except the Fluffyaudio set. Cinewinds are much improved but still limited, Berlin and Spitfire I've been quite disappointed with given the price they cost (not that they're bad but they are quite stunted in terms of flexibility). Eastwest's Hollywood Winds aren't really any worse so I don't really get why they're considered a step down; they have their good and bad points just like the others. VSL remain the best in terms of flexibility although I find them a chore to mix so don't use them very much. Audio Modeling and Wallander are brilliantly playable with the aid of a breath controller (and inspiring to use as a result) but I think lack the sound for exposed parts.
> 
> Nobody, not one developer, has really managed to capture a fully flexible decent oboe. Berlin have done ok with their Exp B but it's very limited. The clarinet as an instrument has a fantastic dynamic range but there's nothing out there that goes from hollow whisper to raucous scream with all the beauty in between from any developer. It's usually a case of stiching bits of this and that together. Flutes and oboes have fared a bit better but there's still massive room for improvement.
> 
> I'm not quite convined that it will be Cinematic Samples will be the answer they are, by nature, bare bones libraries. Great sound but basic by design. I would love for someone to come out with the mother of all woodwind libraries!


Again, I fully agree and was thinking more in logistical terms. Easier is the wrong word, I should have said that it's probably _faster _to produce a woodwind library than a brass library.


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## ScoreFace

lucor said:


> Again, I fully agree and was thinking more in logistical terms. Easier is the wrong word, I should have said that it's probably _faster _to produce a woodwind library than a brass library.



Agree - I imagine, for brass players, these sessions might be more fatiguing than for woodwind players. Still it might be easier to catch a natural french horn sound than an oboe. On the other hand, a trumpet also can be very complex and I'm still searching for the full sample trumpet experience.


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## btparic

rottoy said:


> I'm just hoping Alex will sample a really great oboist.
> Apart from the Berlin Woodwinds Exp B oboe and the 8Dio Claire Oboe,
> there isn't a single sampled oboe that I've taken a liking to.



OMG SAME. I dunno what it is about the oboe that makes it so hard to capture its sweet, plaintive tone (especially in lower dynamics). Most of the sampled oboes I've heard have been rather quacky and obnoxious, so far away from the pure sound you ever hear in live recordings. English horn has a similar problem.



Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I get the feeling that some people are actually more interested in buying stuff and parking their money somewhere than actually using products and making music.



Guilty! xD


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## ScoreFace

btparic said:


> OMG SAME. I dunno what it is about the oboe that makes it so hard to capture its sweet, plaintive tone (especially in lower dynamics). Most of the sampled oboes I've heard have been rather quacky and obnoxious, so far away from the pure sound you ever hear in live recordings. English horn has a similar problem.



Yes, english horn! I'd love to have that one, beautifully captured!!


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## NoamL

Maybe this is the right thread for this question: take a listen to the *"Ringworld"* demo for CSS. Doesn't that sound like CSB to you all?

Perhaps there's a chance that the samples for CSB have been recorded quite a while ago, and it just takes a long time to edit and perfect them (and also go back to the studio for follow up recording sessions).

Now listen to the "The Long Road" demo for CSB. Hmm, could that be CSW?


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## Pantonal

rottoy said:


> I'm just hoping Alex will sample a really great oboist.
> Apart from the Berlin Woodwinds Exp B oboe and the 8Dio Claire Oboe,
> there isn't a single sampled oboe that I've taken a liking to.


Thanks for the tip, just bought the 8Dio Claire Oboe and it's really quite good, much better than any other that I own (and it's on sale now!).


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## ism

What is anyone hoping for in CSW that isn’t already there in Spitfire, Berlin, Fluffy, Claire etc winds?


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## Raphioli

rottoy said:


> I'm just hoping Alex will sample a really great oboist.
> Apart from the Berlin Woodwinds Exp B oboe and the 8Dio Claire Oboe,
> there isn't a single sampled oboe that I've taken a liking to.



Have to agree.

Have you heard embertones Herring Clarinet?
It really sounds great and makes me wish they'd do a Oboe too.


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## rottoy

Raphioli said:


> Have to agree.
> 
> Have you heard embertones Herring Clarinet?
> It really sounds great and makes me wish they'd do a Oboe too.


I have the Herring Clarinet, I love it.
Fluffy Audio John Diamanti Fox Clarinet and the Herring Clarinet are tied for me when it comes to terrific clarinet libraries.


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## btparic

ism said:


> What is anyone hoping for in CSW that isn’t already there in Spitfire, Berlin, Fluffy, Claire etc winds?



Honestly, just ease-of-use.

Not to say any of the products mentioned are incredibly hard to use or anything, it's just that CSS kinda made all string libraries before it feel like operating a Boeing 747. I love how neat and tidy my strings template is now compared to what it was previously with Hollywood Strings.

In terms of instrumentation and articulations, I'm expecting just the essentials with a few pieces of flair thrown in. CSS wasn't about having ALL the string articulations, just making the most common ones incredibly fast and easy to access. So I'm expecting about the same from CSB and CSW.


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## NoamL

ism said:


> What is anyone hoping for in CSW that isn’t already there in Spitfire, Berlin, Fluffy, Claire etc winds?



A no frills woodwinds library with essential articulations for solo flute, piccolo, (perhaps alto flute too?), oboe, cor anglais, clarinet, bass clar, bassoon and contrabassoon, all recorded with CONSISTENCY across the ensemble. That's where CSS excels. Spitfire and Berlin feel very modular. Some parts are great (the alto & bass flutes from Spitfire are fantastic) others aren't. Berlin WW "Revive" doesn't even have consistent mics across the entire ensemble IIRC.


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## Land of Missing Parts

ism said:


> What is anyone hoping for in CSW that isn’t already there in Spitfire, Berlin, Fluffy, Claire etc winds?


There's a lot of options to cover lyrical solo playing. Less so that cover ensembles and soloists, as well as less for when you also need agile playing and non-cookie cutter runs.


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## Scamper

rottoy said:


> Fluffy Audio John Diamanti Fox Clarinet and the Herring Clarinet are tied for me when it comes to terrific clarinet libraries.


How would you compare them or when do you choose one over the other? I'm interested in both of them, but not sure which to choose yet.


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## rottoy

Scamper said:


> How would you compare them or when do you choose one over the other? I'm interested in both of them, but not sure which to choose yet.


Herring can pull off fast passages better, but if I'm writing slower pieces I always go for the Diamanti Fox.


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## ism

btparic said:


> Honestly, just ease-of-use.
> 
> Not to say any of the products mentioned are incredibly hard to use or anything, it's just that CSS kinda made all string libraries before it feel like operating a Boeing 747



This makes sense for strings, which on the whole seem to be a lot harder to work with. I guess the context of my question is that I’d really love to be excited about a new wood library, but I’m so happy with spitfire winds, that although I have the fluffy clarinet with in some cases is incrementally better for exposed passages , and similarly for the Claire oboe, I’m almost always enormously content with the spitfire instruments. So I’m not sure how what it would mean for a winds library to be significantly easier to use.

Maybe this will change as I get more ambitious in my wind writing.



NoamL said:


> A no frills woodwinds library with essential articulations for solo flute, piccolo, (perhaps alto flute too?), oboe, cor anglais, clarinet, bass clar, bassoon and contrabassoon, all recorded with CONSISTENCY across the ensemble



That’s interesting, and I’d Love to be excited about this also, but I find winds in general (and SSW in particular) the instruments that cause me the absolute least amount of headaches in the mixing. Maybe i’ll develop a better sense of this in time.




Land of Missing Parts said:


> There's a lot of options to cover lyrical solo playing. Less so that cover ensembles and soloists, as well as less for when you also need agile playing and non-cookie cutter runs. Timbres change quite a lot in winds, so more dynamic layers and smooth transitions between those.



Yes, more dynamic layers for certain instruments is something I could get excited about, altough only occasionally. But again, winds seem to be technically simpler than solo strings - specifically conventional cros fade technique seems to work much better in winds than on, for instance solo strings. And in general, I find the dynamic cross fade on what I have to be already very good as it is (very, very good for the fluffy Clarinet). Not that I wouldn’t like more dynamic layers, just that I think it would be, in practice, a very incremental improvement.


So it’s not that I’m not excited about a new woodwind library, exactly, it’s just, I guess for one thing it’s hard to imagine a wind library that sounds better that existing Spitfire / Fluffy instruments (thought I’m complete confident that CSW will sound fantastic), and also hard to imagine anything more that a few more incremental improvements. (I am excited for the rumored update to SSW).

Hopefully - almost certainly - this is just a limitation on my own imagination. But I do appreciate the enthusiasm here for this library, and hope I’ll come to share it.


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## RandomComposer

How is this already on 2 pages? CSB isn't even out yet


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## Kony

I'm also hoping for a good oboe in CSW - only BWW has come close to getting the oboe right IMO


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## tim727

Jokes aside, what's your guys' best guess for when this lib is coming out? IIRC originally the winds were supposed to come out right on the heels of the brass, though I'm not sure if that's still the plan.


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## Kony

I think around Christmas


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## Casiquire

Gerbil said:


> I don't know...I've not really come across any library that comes close to catching the real diverse character of woodwinds and I have nearly all of them except the Fluffyaudio set. Cinewinds are much improved but still limited, Berlin and Spitfire I've been quite disappointed with given the price they cost (not that they're bad but they are quite stunted in terms of flexibility). Eastwest's Hollywood Winds aren't really any worse so I don't really get why they're considered a step down; they have their good and bad points just like the others. VSL remain the best in terms of flexibility although I find them a chore to mix so don't use them very much. Audio Modeling and Wallander are brilliantly playable with the aid of a breath controller (and inspiring to use as a result) but I think lack the sound for exposed parts.
> 
> Nobody, not one developer, has really managed to capture a fully flexible decent oboe. Berlin have done ok with their Exp B but it's very limited. The clarinet as an instrument has a fantastic dynamic range but there's nothing out there that goes from hollow whisper to raucous scream with all the beauty in between from any developer. It's usually a case of stiching bits of this and that together. Flutes and bassoons have fared a bit better but there's still massive room for improvement.
> 
> I'm not quite convined that Cinematic Samples will be the answer as they are, by nature, bare bones libraries. Great sound but basic by design. I would love for someone to come out with the mother of all woodwind libraries!



What are your thoughts on the Hein offering, which sounds great to me? I haven't played it myself however.


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## Gerbil

Casiquire said:


> What are your thoughts on the Hein offering, which sounds great to me? I haven't played it myself however.



I really like playing his libraries. I have the classical woodwinds, the solo violin and that sopranino sax that was sold for peanuts a few years ago and they are all very responsive and very flexible. Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of the sound (except the sop sax) so I never use them in recordings. But I do improvise with them for inspiration which makes them worth the purchase.

If you like the sound then you'll probably really enjoy them as they are cleverly designed for realtime performance.


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## Knomes

I'd like to CS-Bump this thread by asking about what instruments do you think will be included.

Do you think there will be only principals or also the auxiliary?

Do you think there is hope to have a bass oboe, for example, or a bass flute?


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## BradHoyt

Gerbil said:


> I don't know...I've not really come across any library that comes close to catching the real diverse character of woodwinds and I have nearly all of them except the Fluffyaudio set. Cinewinds are much improved but still limited, Berlin and Spitfire I've been quite disappointed with given the price they cost (not that they're bad but they are quite stunted in terms of flexibility). Eastwest's Hollywood Winds aren't really any worse so I don't really get why they're considered a step down; they have their good and bad points just like the others. VSL remain the best in terms of flexibility although I find them a chore to mix so don't use them very much. Audio Modeling and Wallander are brilliantly playable with the aid of a breath controller (and inspiring to use as a result) but I think lack the sound for exposed parts.
> 
> Nobody, not one developer, has really managed to capture a fully flexible decent oboe. Berlin have done ok with their Exp B but it's very limited. The clarinet as an instrument has a fantastic dynamic range but there's nothing out there that goes from hollow whisper to raucous scream with all the beauty in between from any developer. It's usually a case of stiching bits of this and that together. Flutes and bassoons have fared a bit better but there's still massive room for improvement.
> 
> I'm not quite convinced that Cinematic Samples will be the answer as they are, by nature, bare bones libraries. Great sound but basic by design. I would love for someone to come out with the mother of all woodwind libraries!


I'm curious to hear how the BWW Revive Oboe sounds like... I have a selection of oboes that comes close to your selection (and I agree with you regarding Exp B). My hunch was that the new woodwinds in the updated Revive could possibly surpass Exp. B... and would consider purchasing an upgrade to Revive since I own BWW and Exp A, B and C but alas, I missed the window and OT isn't interested in giving me that upgrade price for the time being...


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## SoNowWhat?

ScoreFace said:


> Yes, english horn! I'd love to have that one, beautifully captured!!


+3
Working on a piece with a Cor Anglais theme in it. Spitfire is best fit from my available choices and it’s not bad at all in context but I’d love a really good one. There are a couple of transitions that are rough and to cover that I have to alter phrasing to something that I suspect would be impossible for a physical player.


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## SoNowWhat?

RandomComposer said:


> How is this already on 2 pages? CSB isn't even out yet


My bad. I thought this said CSW. edited now.


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## dpasdernick

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I get the feeling that some people are actually more interested in buying stuff and parking their money somewhere than actually using products and making music.



I see no problem here...


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## Saxer

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I get the feeling that some people are actually more interested in buying stuff and parking their money somewhere than actually using products and making music.


Making what?


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## Architekton

Maybe Alex can chime in and say some ETA...? Just to know is it coming soon or not...


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## RandomComposer

Architekton said:


> Maybe Alex can chime in and say some ETA...? Just to know is it coming soon or not...


They're aiming for middle of next year, though I imagine end of next year is more realistic. Unless we get a repeat of CSB and end up waiting until the end of 2020


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## tim727

I would agree that end of next year is definitely more realistic. "Aiming for" and "expecting for" are two very different things and when he communicated with me about it he made it very clear that he was thinking the former. For me personally it probably doesn't matter a ton anymore because I just picked up BWW during the BF sale, although if CSW brought something really unique to the table I would still consider it of course. I'm so happy with BWW though that I find that unlikely at this point.


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## RandomComposer

tim727 said:


> I would agree that end of next year is definitely more realistic. "Aiming for" and "expecting for" are two very different things and when he communicated with me about it he made it very clear that he was thinking the former. For me personally it probably doesn't matter a ton anymore because I just picked up BWW during the BF sale, although if CSW brought something really unique to the table I would still consider it of course. I'm so happy with BWW though that I find that unlikely at this point.


Honestly I think BWW is worth the purchase even if CSW were to come out tomorrow, there's just so much ground that BWW covers to such a high quality.


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## tim727

RandomComposer said:


> Honestly I think BWW is worth the purchase even if CSW were to come out tomorrow, there's just so much ground that BWW covers to such a high quality.



I agree!


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## rottoy

I really hope the CSW oboe can pull of a fantastic solo like this.


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## ism

Does anyone ever thing that maybe for the really difficult to sample instruments (especially oboe and clarinet) that it might be better to have separate libraries for symphonic instruments and soloists? - in the manor of Berlin WW vs the soloist Exp B?


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## MA-Simon

Bump! Because I want them.


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## Consona




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## Brian Nowak

I think it would be wise to at least tease people a bit, honestly. Spitfire Studio Series bundle pricing will be announced this Thursday, and if the bundle price is good for professional it would pique my interest. 

It would also be nice to know if CSW will have contrabassoon and bass clarinet. It would be fantastic to have those instruments for my modern scoring needs.


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## leon chevalier

MA-Simon said:


> Bump! Because I want them.


Cinematic studio bumping is an art, and if you do it, please respect that art. You should write : "Cinematic Studio Bump". Nothing more.

The good news is : it's never too late to improve. So wait a couple of days until this thread disappear and then do it properly !


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## rottoy

The only other time I can recall wanting a bump this badly is the times my partner and I discussed potentially having a child.


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## leon chevalier

I have the feeling that we will not wait as long as CSB. But not in the next months. Maybe around september. Hopefully.


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## Land of Missing Parts

leon chevalier said:


> I have the feeling that we will not wait as long as CSB. But not in the next months. Maybe around september. Hopefully.


I can get one marshmallow now, or if I wait a short period I'll be rewarded with two marshmallo...too late.


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## Scamper

Brian Nowak said:


> It would also be nice to know if CSW will have contrabassoon and bass clarinet. It would be fantastic to have those instruments for my modern scoring needs.



True, I find the extended instruments of the woodwinds especially lovely, also the alto flute and cor anglais.
The Cinematic Studio Series seems to focus more on the bread and butter instruments and techniques, so I'm not expecting those, but I'm certainly hoping for it and I'll patiently wait, no matter what library comes before.


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## muziksculp

I'm looking forward to the release of CSW maybe later this year.

Hopefully Alex will be able to deliver the great timbre of the Flute, Oboe, English Horn, these are the ones that need more work, and attention to the type of Mics/Pres used to capture the beautiful, and detailed rich texture of their timbre. Many Woodwind libraries I feel are weak in sampling, and re-creating these solo woodwinds.


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## Rob Elliott

I used to think that the Oboe (French) was the most difficult of all woods to sample properly but I am not too sure when, with so many clarinets purchased since VSL's clarinet release (has to be 12+ years now) - I STILL find myself going back to that instrument for projects. It just seems to have that 'singing' quality that a client often wants in a clarinet. Me thinks that Alex will capture that. Mid year would be nice on release but we must all remember that Alex is a perfectionist - given the results he has been able to achieve in CSS/CSSS, CSB. My money is on 1st qtr 2020 for the release of CSW - and I am ok with that given my high expectations.


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## constaneum

Probably we'll anticipate the following list of instruments in CSW. Core woodwinds. 


1 Piccolo Flute
1 Flute

2 Flutes
1 Oboe

2 Oboes
1 English Horn

1 Clarinet

2 Clarinets
1 Bassoon

2 Bassoons
1 Contrabassoon


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## Pablocrespo

I wish they did two flutes 1 and 2 separately (and the other instruments pairs) instead of a2. 

It’s what I like the most about BWW, much more suited for choral and counterpoint.


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## NYC Composer

rottoy said:


> The only other time I can recall wanting a bump this badly is the times my partner and I discussed potentially having a child.


Clearly you didn’t live through the 80s.


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## Brian Nowak

constaneum said:


> Probably we'll anticipate the following list of instruments in CSW. Core woodwinds.
> 
> 
> 1 Piccolo Flute
> 1 Flute
> 
> 2 Flutes
> 1 Oboe
> 
> 2 Oboes
> 1 English Horn
> 
> 1 Clarinet
> 
> 2 Clarinets
> 1 Bassoon
> 
> 2 Bassoons
> 1 Contrabassoon



That is probably accurate based on CSB. Still, a man can hope for a bass clarinet.


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## rottoy

NYC Composer said:


> Clearly you didn’t live through the 80s.


 I retroactively suffer through it every day, listening to Kenny G solos while furiously typing on VI Control.


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## constaneum

Pablocrespo said:


> I wish they did two flutes 1 and 2 separately (and the other instruments pairs) instead of a2.
> 
> It’s what I like the most about BWW, much more suited for choral and counterpoint.



if i'm not mistaken, SA walkthrough video for its studio woodwinds did mention something about you can't have 2 solo flutes blends together to make it blend well as an ensemble. Something like that. Basically, they're referring to Berlin woodwinds ? lol

Talk about that, i wonder why Berlin Woodwinds has this Clarinet Ensemble but doesnt have recorded Oboe, Flute and Bassoon ensemble.


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## ionian

NYC Composer said:


> Clearly you didn’t live through the 80s.



You know how the saying goes, "If you can remember the 80s, you weren't there"


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## galactic orange

I only remember what I saw in the movies.


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## Robert_G

Sorry to bump....but is there any new info?


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## I like music

Looking forward to the CSW vs MSW comparisons soon after.


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## Bluemount Score

CSW = Cinematic Studio Wait

0 new info here!

I can't decide between Cinesamples Woodwinds and CSW, but the longer it takes...


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## Architekton

Hopefully we will see CSW this summer! Cant wait...


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## constaneum

I guess Santa might drop a xmas announcement instead. Ahha


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## constaneum

I'm not sure how complicated is sampling woodwind and brass compared to strings. The difference between CSB and CSS back then was scripting and recording methods for bow and blow may be different? With the scripting done with brass, I'm guessing woodwinds recording would be much easier coz the technology is already there and tested with brass recording? Hmmm....just my two cents.


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## cqd

Yeah, im hoping for the summer..


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## rottoy

However CSW turns out, I really hope it blows in the end.


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## RandomComposer

rottoy said:


> However CSW turns out, I really hope it blows in the end.


This just winds me up.


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## I like music

rottoy said:


> However CSW turns out, I really hope it blows in the end.


Wood you calm down please?


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## boxheadboy50

constaneum said:


> With the scripting done with brass, I'm guessing woodwinds recording would be much easier coz the technology is already there and tested with brass recording?


They actually recorded the brass and woodwinds at the same time. Assuming they did the scripting/editing/testing separately from the brass... If the brass took that long, my bet is we won't see CSW until end of the year.


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## Land of Missing Parts

boxheadboy50 said:


> They actually recorded the brass and woodwinds at the same time. Assuming they did the scripting/editing/testing separately from the brass... If the brass took that long, my bet is we won't see CSW until end of the year.


Interesting, I hadn't heard about this. Can I ask where you heard it?


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## boxheadboy50

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Interesting, I hadn't heard about this. Can I ask where you heard it?


It was actually in an email from them - I think it was right around when CSB came out - and I asked about the upcoming CSW. They said they were recorded at the same time, now over 3 years (!) ago, and that CSW should come this year.


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## Banquet

I emailed Alex today, asking about CSB and how much HD space the woodwinds library might take. I'm sure he wouldn't mind me copying the relevant part of his reply:

_'Not sure about woodwinds as it's still in product, but it will likely be our biggest library yet. We're aiming for a late 2019 release, (fingers crossed)'_


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## Robert_G

Banquet said:


> I emailed Alex today, asking about CSB and how much HD space the woodwinds library might take. I'm sure he wouldn't mind me copying the relevant part of his reply:
> 
> _'Not sure about woodwinds as it's still in product, but it will likely be our biggest library yet. We're aiming for a late 2019 release, (fingers crossed)'_



Interesting....bigger than the strings and brass libraries....now I'm even less patient.


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## I like music

Imagine if he starts one day releasing expansions where you get Horn 2, 3, 4 etc etc (but that would be spoiled for us to ask for).

But imagine, with the quality stuff he produces, to expand these libraries in this way!


----------



## cqd

Dammit!!

Although it's good to know I suppose..

But Dammit..


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

I like music said:


> Imagine if he starts one day releasing expansions where you get Horn 2, 3, 4 etc etc (but that would be spoiled for us to ask for).
> 
> But imagine, with the quality stuff he produces, to expand these libraries in this way!


I'd really like if he made CSS divisi strings. I think it would be a big seller, especially if it could have polyphonic legato.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Oh man, I need CSW so badly. My wind samples are my weakest instrument right now, and I don't feel like investing further when I know CSW is somewhat "around the corner". What to do. What to do.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'd really like if he made CSS divisi strings. I think it would be a big seller, especially if it could have polyphonic legato.


Agreed. I'd also love to eventually see a chamber string collection. I find that there are times that CSS is too big (for certain passages) and CSSS, even on the ensemble patch, is too small.


----------



## Pantonal

constaneum said:


> if i'm not mistaken, SA walkthrough video for its studio woodwinds did mention something about you can't have 2 solo flutes blends together to make it blend well as an ensemble.


In my experience you use 1 flute or 3 for that very reason. With 2 flutes there's always beating but with 3 flutes you have a choir.


----------



## Rob Elliott

mikefrommontreal said:


> Agreed. I'd also love to eventually see a chamber string collection. I find that there are times that CSS is too big (for certain passages) and CSSS, even on the ensemble patch, is too small.


One thing that I do when I need a 'tweener' size string section is to mix LESS CSS with CSSS - it's not perfect but it feels smaller - chamberish.


----------



## jamwerks

Any examples using just the Tree 2 mic ?


----------



## Bluemount Score

mikefrommontreal said:


> Oh man, I need CSW so badly. My wind samples are my weakest instrument right now, and I don't feel like investing further when I know CSW is somewhat "around the corner". What to do. What to do.


I feel this post...


----------



## The Darris

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'd really like if he made CSS divisi strings. I think it would be a big seller, especially if it could have polyphonic legato.


I'm not trying to burst your bubble but I would like to offer my opinion on this request. 

Part of why the Cinematic Studio Series is not only popular but also very successful is due to it's simplicity of functionality. This was proven with their original Cinematic Strings 1 and 2 which is still a very well received and usable library from a professional perspective. When you look at all the other libraries that have adopted the "divisi" concept, we've seen fail (not always) but because those features are a frustrating aspect of the library to use. LASS, arguably, is the only string library that got it right but even then, the complexity of that library makes it one that is frustrating to use, more many. I don't know any composers in my circle that use LASS on anything these days because of how much work it takes to set up in a template, balance, test for functionality, etc. The results, even in the hands of a very capable mock up artist, are comparable to the results of Cinematic Studio Strings. The Berlin series fails at this concept too, not only in lack of balanced articulations from instrument to instrument but also between the single instruments and their respective sections. You can't simply copy and paste from one single instrument to the next because they didn't record the same dynamic ranges with them. 

My argument is simply this, why change a formula that works very well at the core purpose of the libraries Alex makes? The long awaited Brass library has been insanely successful based on it's online reception. It offered more than we anticipated, at least for me, and it was very competitively priced. It also met loads of end user expectations from what I can tell. I've not found a rolling consensus on anything so negative to thwart sales on it other than it *not* having specific brass instruments. Just my take on this. I'd prefer, as a user of CSS, that he stick to his creative approach to this series because it's not only easy to use but sounds freaking great. 

Cheers,

Chris


----------



## Symfoniq

The Darris said:


> I'm not trying to burst your bubble but I would like to offer my opinion on this request.
> 
> Part of why the Cinematic Studio Series is not only popular but also very successful is due to it's simplicity of functionality. This was proven with their original Cinematic Strings 1 and 2 which is still a very well received and usable library from a professional perspective. When you look at all the other libraries that have adopted the "divisi" concept, we've seen fail (not always) but because those features are a frustrating aspect of the library to use. LASS, arguably, is the only string library that got it right but even then, the complexity of that library makes it one that is frustrating to use, more many. I don't know any composers in my circle that use LASS on anything these days because of how much work it takes to set up in a template, balance, test for functionality, etc. The results, even in the hands of a very capable mock up artist, are comparable to the results of Cinematic Studio Strings. The Berlin series fails at this concept too, not only in lack of balanced articulations from instrument to instrument but also between the single instruments and their respective sections. You can't simply copy and paste from one single instrument to the next because they didn't record the same dynamic ranges with them.
> 
> My argument is simply this, why change a formula that works very well at the core purpose of the libraries Alex makes? The long awaited Brass library has been insanely successful based on it's online reception. It offered more than we anticipated, at least for me, and it was very competitively priced. It also met loads of end user expectations from what I can tell. I've not found a rolling consensus on anything so negative to thwart sales on it other than it *not* having specific brass instruments. Just my take on this. I'd prefer, as a user of CSS, that he stick to his creative approach to this series because it's not only easy to use but sounds freaking great.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris



I understand the case you are making here and agree that the simplicity of CSS is a huge selling point, but to the prior poster's point, Afflatus Strings has proven that divisi strings (with polyphonic legato) can be made brain-dead simple to use and still sound very, very good.


----------



## tomhartmanmusic

The Darris said:


> I'm not trying to burst your bubble but I would like to offer my opinion on this request.
> 
> Part of why the Cinematic Studio Series is not only popular but also very successful is due to it's simplicity of functionality. This was proven with their original Cinematic Strings 1 and 2 which is still a very well received and usable library from a professional perspective. When you look at all the other libraries that have adopted the "divisi" concept, we've seen fail (not always) but because those features are a frustrating aspect of the library to use. LASS, arguably, is the only string library that got it right but even then, the complexity of that library makes it one that is frustrating to use, more many. I don't know any composers in my circle that use LASS on anything these days because of how much work it takes to set up in a template, balance, test for functionality, etc. The results, even in the hands of a very capable mock up artist, are comparable to the results of Cinematic Studio Strings. The Berlin series fails at this concept too, not only in lack of balanced articulations from instrument to instrument but also between the single instruments and their respective sections. You can't simply copy and paste from one single instrument to the next because they didn't record the same dynamic ranges with them.
> 
> My argument is simply this, why change a formula that works very well at the core purpose of the libraries Alex makes? The long awaited Brass library has been insanely successful based on it's online reception. It offered more than we anticipated, at least for me, and it was very competitively priced. It also met loads of end user expectations from what I can tell. I've not found a rolling consensus on anything so negative to thwart sales on it other than it *not* having specific brass instruments. Just my take on this. I'd prefer, as a user of CSS, that he stick to his creative approach to this series because it's not only easy to use but sounds freaking great.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris




I can't imagine doing a project without LASS strings. CSS are fine but I simply can't deal with the delay in playing the patches. I don't find setting LASS up difficult, or any more difficult than any other library. Hate the interface though, I'll give you that! 

But maybe I'm not doing things as complex as others.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

The Darris said:


> I'd prefer, as a user of CSS, that he stick to his creative approach to this series because it's not only easy to use but sounds freaking great.


Amen. CSS is my favorite of any sample library I've ever used. I'm just hoping he makes another follow up library of divisi strings to go with it. I imagine that's something you'd want too, right?



tomhartmanmusic said:


> CSS are fine but I simply can't deal with the delay in playing the patches.


Why not use the classic legato patches, which are the same thing but have no delay?


----------



## The Darris

Symfoniq said:


> I understand the case you are making here and agree that the simplicity of CSS is a huge selling point, but to the prior poster's point, Afflatus Strings has proven that divisi strings (with polyphonic legato) can be made brain-dead simple to use and still sound very, very good.


Yes, totally agree about Afflatus but it is a very stylized library where they could hyper focus on doing one thing really well concerning their divisi/poly-legato. If you want to do that to a full scale string library with all the main articulations, etc, it becomes drastically more complicated.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

The Darris said:


> Yes, totally agree about Afflatus but it is a very stylized library where they could hyper focus on doing one thing really well concerning their divisi/poly-legato. If you want to do that to a full scale string library with all the main articulations, etc, it becomes drastically more complicated.


Chris, I'm curious about how you'd typically handle mocking up a string part on CSS if the score calls for divisi. Say the cellos split into three legato parts for a bar, would you just use the CSS cellos three times, or maybe switch to SCS or Afflatus?


----------



## The Darris

tomhartmanmusic said:


> I can't imagine doing a project without LASS strings. CSS are fine but I simply can't deal with the delay in playing the patches. I don't find setting LASS up difficult, or any more difficult than any other library. Hate the interface though, I'll give you that!
> 
> But maybe I'm not doing things as complex as others.


I wasn't trying to imply that LASS doesn't serve a purpose anymore. I was simply making the point that in my experiences, the composers I've worked for and with avoid using it on productions because of the complexity of using it. It takes quite a bit of work to set it up, especially if you want to use auto-divisi. That's time consuming when you're on a tight deadline. Load and play libraries that sound great are in demand by working composers. Sure, there are still older libraries with amazing features like LASS that can still hold their own against the competition but the point is that something so simple can hold it's own too which is why I don't really want to see Alex go down that path. He's found a great business model and should stick to it for now. If he can find a way to innovate without jeopardizing the simplicity he's created with this series, then I will certainly be an early adopter and take back some of the claims I've made here. In fact, I hope that happens. 

Best,

C


----------



## The Darris

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Chris, I'm curious about how you'd typically handle mocking up a string part on CSS if the score calls for divisi. Say the cellos split into three legato parts for a bar, would you just use the CSS cellos three times, or maybe switch to SCS or Afflatus?


Depends on the situation. Are you talking about mocking up for a feature where you are recording the score or just doing mock ups of existing pieces? 

For the gigs I've done. We rarely use divisi, mainly because the type of projects I've worked on benefit from just traditional scoring within the one string section = one part mentality. If we do divisi, we tend to just turn off legato and sequence the lines polyphonic-old school style. Since I layer with other libraries, you can hide the seems very well. The orchestrators that I've worked with also make their creative decisions. In many cases, they avoid divisi, especially if we have a small recording budget and can't get a large string section. Overdub limitations make that a challenge. So, I've learned to write more simplistically whilst not trying to be creatively limited. Either way, having a good orchestrator makes a difference. Good ones take what you've done that sounds great with samples and alters it to sound great for the live players you get to record. 

If you are talking more about doing covers of existing scores. It depends on the library. For something like CSS, again, I just turn off legato and write polyphonic arco lines in a single patch. CSS has a small enough string section that you can get away with it. The same goes for other libraries like Spitfire Chamber Strings. I've also used Cinematic Strings 2 as a "B section" to CSS to write divisi harmonies with a lot of success but again, I rarely write divisi so it's not a huge concern for me. 

Best,

C


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

The Darris said:


> Depends on the situation. Are you talking about mocking up for a feature where you are recording the score or just doing mock ups of existing pieces?
> 
> For the gigs I've done. We rarely use divisi, mainly because the type of projects I've worked on benefit from just traditional scoring within the one string section = one part mentality. If we do divisi, we tend to just turn off legato and sequence the lines polyphonic-old school style. Since I layer with other libraries, you can hide the seems very well. The orchestrators that I've worked with also make their creative decisions. In many cases, they avoid divisi, especially if we have a small recording budget and can't get a large string section. Overdub limitations make that a challenge. So, I've learned to write more simplistically whilst not trying to be creatively limited. Either way, having a good orchestrator makes a difference. Good ones take what you've done that sounds great with samples and alters it to sound great for the live players you get to record.
> 
> If you are talking more about doing covers of existing scores. It depends on the library. For something like CSS, again, I just turn off legato and write polyphonic arco lines in a single patch. CSS has a small enough string section that you can get away with it. The same goes for other libraries like Spitfire Chamber Strings. I've also used Cinematic Strings 2 as a "B section" to CSS to write divisi harmonies with a lot of success but again, I rarely write divisi so it's not a huge concern for me.
> 
> Best,
> 
> C


Good info, thanks Chris.


----------



## tomhartmanmusic

The Darris said:


> I wasn't trying to imply that LASS doesn't serve a purpose anymore. I was simply making the point that in my experiences, the composers I've worked for and with avoid using it on productions because of the complexity of using it. It takes quite a bit of work to set it up, especially if you want to use auto-divisi. That's time consuming when you're on a tight deadline. Load and play libraries that sound great are in demand by working composers. Sure, there are still older libraries with amazing features like LASS that can still hold their own against the competition but the point is that something so simple can hold it's own too which is why I don't really want to see Alex go down that path. He's found a great business model and should stick to it for now. If he can find a way to innovate without jeopardizing the simplicity he's created with this series, then I will certainly be an early adopter and take back some of the claims I've made here. In fact, I hope that happens.
> 
> Best,
> 
> C



The divisi features of the new AudioBro Brass library seems wonderful, maybe the strings will get the upgrade eventually too. Meanwhile, templates solve the deadline problem in most cases for me.


----------



## The Darris

tomhartmanmusic said:


> The divisi features of the new AudioBro Brass library seems wonderful, maybe the strings will get the upgrade eventually too. Meanwhile, templates solve the deadline problem in most cases for me.


Yes, templates do but you still have to set them up (especially custom templates for the particular project) which takes time. I try to carry over as much as I can from one project to the next but there is a huge difference in writing for a suspense/adult themed thriller versus a children's animated feature involving magic. In most cases, you'd want to custom build your template for said project so you don't find yourself writing the same exact stuff. In cases like the job I'm on right now. I was brought on at the last minute. I had a day to prepare my template for the genre we are working in which was a lot different from the previous gig I had worked on. The last big project I worked on involved a lot of string FX and textures and not so much writing thematic material. This project is the opposite. It's full on Williams/Powell type stuff. Very dense. My only other argument for constructing a new template per project is that you won't be carrying over any issues or problems you had in the previous template. It allows you to develop your workflow for the better. If it's anything I learned, fixing or changing your template mid through a project can really throw a wrench into your workflow. Maybe I can share a "lessons learned" about that sometime. 

You can certainly argue that I'm set in my own ways which I totally am. I will admit that. I honestly prefer being able to just plug and play versus any additional setup outside of routing midi channels and mixing on the DAW end of things. In my experience using custom kontakt multis or saved VEPro meta frames or whatever they are called (outside of a template) has always ended in weird routing issues which is a time killer for me. When something screws you up once in this job, you tend to avoid that issues altogether, even if the company of said products with said issues say they fixed them. Find a workflow that works and stick to it. Cinematic Studio Series approach fits my workflow flawlessly which is why I've made the points I've made about it today. Sorry for the long winded responses. Haha, I've had a lot of coffee and I've been doing orchestration prep all day. 

Best,

Chris


----------



## The Darris

If we're on the topic of the Cinematic Studio Series, here is my suggestion on what I think is needed to supplement their current available and projected catalog. 

One library dedicated to musical gestures like swells, crescendos, fx, etc. This is very prominent in the new Audio Bro brass library. However, I'd love for Alex to create a library where it's all in one for each instrument section and its universal. Being one shots whether tempo sync'd or not would have a lower ram footprint than one with legato. There are great libraries already out there that do this but a one stop shop for those types of samples is lacking in this market in my opinion. Usually, FX are recorded as a, "We have left over session time, lets grab some FX." There are outliers like OT's Berlin Strings FX but even that library has a lot of short comings. 

Just my take on what I'd love to see from Alex after he completes the Studio Series.


----------



## jimjazzuk

BUMP! I wonder if it's anywhere near ready?


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

jimjazzuk said:


> BUMP! I wonder if it's anywhere near ready?


In this post Alex was quoted saying, _"We're aiming for a late 2019 release, (fingers crossed)"_


----------



## Bluemount Score

This and BBC orchestra are the only two things I'm really waiting for now.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Meetyhtan said:


> This and BBC orchestra are the only two things I'm really waiting for now.



This and the new OT shop for me


----------



## Batrawi

let's all agree on one rule shall we? 
"Never bump a Cinematic Studio thread unless you're Alex Wallbank"


----------



## Bluemount Score

Batrawi said:


> let's all agree on one rule shall we?
> "Never bump a Cinematic Studio thread unless you're Alex Wallbank"


Sounds like we destroyed somebody's hope. :D (well, mine got too, a little)


----------



## leon chevalier

Batrawi said:


> let's all agree on one rule shall we?
> "Never bump a Cinematic Studio thread unless you're Alex Wallbank"


Man, you need to experiment the guilty pleasure of a cinematic studio bump 
Wait... my bad, you just did !


----------



## constaneum

i've been waiting for the release of the woodwinds. With the pristine quality of the Cinematic Brass, i really have high expectation of the Woodwinds. I'm just hoping the flute and oboe sound great. ahaha


----------



## a113jackson

I can't wait. My only woodwind library at the moment is EastWest's Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds, and I absolutely hate them. I'm really hoping the English Horn and Bassoon sound alright.


----------



## constaneum

a113jackson said:


> I can't wait. My only woodwind library at the moment is EastWest's Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds, and I absolutely hate them. I'm really hoping the English Horn and Bassoon sound alright.



i didn't use Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds even though i got them as part of a very affordable bundle with the rest of the Hollywood series. I'm currently using Berlin Woodwinds legacy and Auddict Woodwinds. Didn't quite like the flutes of Berlin Woodwinds. The piccolo sounds a bit dull also. Auddict's flute sounds more lively.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I'm just hoping it includes English Horn, Bass Clarinet, Contrabassoon and Contrabass Clarinet. Reckon it'll include these? A lot of woodwind libraries seen to exclude them unless they're Spitfire or Orchestral tools.


----------



## clisma

I’d bet yes on English Horn, Bass Clarinet and Contrabassoon.


----------



## constaneum

i wish for a2 for flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon.


----------



## RevMa

It seems the release was postponed to the beginning of the next year.


This is the response I have got by their marketing team:

John here from CS info and marketing. Thanks for your interest in our libraries. I'm sorry but we don't have a release date yet for the woodwinds library. We're working hard every day on this, but it is most likely that CSW will be ready early next year. We'll send out emails and discount coupons to all existing customers to let them know. Sorry, I don't have more details!
All the best,
John


----------



## eli0s

Damn!


----------



## eli0s

Oh well, as long as it gets to be a solid library, what ever and however it takes!!!


----------



## Pablocrespo

hmmm, just when bbcso is tempting me!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

RevMa said:


> It seems the release was postponed to the beginning of the next year.


Thanks for sharing the info.


----------



## Gerbil

2021 it is.


----------



## NoamL

Just reaffirms I should be saving my money for this!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Gerbil said:


> 2021 it is.


I get that you're joking, since CSB kept getting pushed back and now CSW has been pushed back again.

But in the interest of keeping rumors and misinformation from appearing, what CS is currently saying is _early 2020_.


----------



## Symfoniq

Making fine wine takes time.


----------



## Tilt & Flow

Gerbil said:


> 2021 it is.


isn't 2020 "the next year"?


----------



## Consona




----------



## Gerbil

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I get that you're joking, since CSB kept getting pushed back and now CSW has been pushed back again.
> 
> But in the interest of keeping rumors and misinformation from appearing, what CS is currently saying is _early 2020_.


Yes.

It doesn't matter because there will be no fanfare, no weeks of countdowns, no hiring of the Sydney Opera House. Up it will pop as well-thought out, expertly crafted and complete as all his products are.


----------



## cqd

So, ahh, any day now?


----------



## N.Caffrey

I just bought CSB as a treat, so CSW would be very welcome!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

According to this post from Dec 13th, here is what Cinematic Studio Series told @RogiervG in a recent email:

"...I'm very sorry but no, it won't be an end-of-year release. I know we said that a while back and we were hoping to make it by then but Alex decided to add an extra instrument which meant re-starting the recording sessions a while back. Definitely only a few months off now!"


----------



## cqd

Months?..ah now..is it a bass flute I wonder?


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

cqd said:


> Months?..ah now..is it a bass flute I wonder?


Maybe he's sampling the Morphine Double Sax.


----------



## jimjazzuk

It'll be worth the wait guys, you just know it will


----------



## a113jackson

Every time this post is bumped I get supremely excited, and then supremely disappointed...


----------



## coprhead6

This has been preventing me from picking up the BWW Soloists for about a year... I have SSW and can't stand the solo oboe and flute for exposed melodies. 

Ugh, should I just grab it anyway? :\


----------



## cqd

a113jackson said:


> Every time this post is bumped I get supremely excited, and then supremely disappointed...



That was definitely not what I intended..


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

So, how much do you reckon they'll be? Same as the strings and brass?


----------



## Rob Elliott

coprhead6 said:


> This has been preventing me from picking up the BWW Soloists for about a year... I have SSW and can't stand the solo oboe and flute for exposed melodies.
> 
> Ugh, should I just grab it anyway? :\



I could recommend BWW soloists. All really good - especially the alto flute (lower range). Simply divine. Most don't get the FRENCH oboe right - but they did!!! 


I am also sure it will be worth the wait for Alex's release. Me thinks their wds will PERFECTLY sit with CSS/CSB. I also bet that the single instruments will sound good with CSSS for a small intimate vibe.


----------



## a113jackson

NeonMediaKJT said:


> So, how much do you reckon they'll be? Same as the strings and brass?



I'd assume so. WWs are usually underrecognized, but this library is supposedly MASSIVE...


----------



## cqd

Are they not going to be cheaper if you have both the strings and brass?..I got that impression at some stage..


----------



## Rob Elliott

They ALWAYS reward owners of their previous products. I bet this will continue.


----------



## NoamL

There is a long running loyalty discount of 30%, yes.


----------



## cqd

NoamL said:


> There is a long running loyalty discount of 30%, yes.



Yeah, I got the impression it might be more for these if you had the other two..


----------



## Rob Elliott

cqd said:


> Yeah, I got the impression it might be more for these if you had the other two..



Whatever it ends up being will likely be a GREAT value (price to usage weighting). At the risk of be flamed - I have always felt Cinematic Studio Series was UNDER priced. A dollar means the same to me as others - I just never have buyers remorse with this developer.


----------



## jimjazzuk

Which instruments do we think will be included?


----------



## Ashermusic

Rob Elliott said:


> Whatever it ends up being will likely be a GREAT value (price to usage weighting). At the risk of be flamed - I have always felt Cinematic Studio Series was UNDER priced. A dollar means the same to me as others - I just never have buyers remorse with this developer.



Totally agree, one of my favorite developers ever.


----------



## axb312

Great developer. Fair pricing. A little slow but the qualitys there. 

Now, please stop bumping this thread and getting my hopes up?


----------



## NoamL

> Whatever it ends up being will likely be a GREAT value
Click to expand...



Absolutely -

Right now Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds with 15 soloists/ensembles is $600. Hollywood Woodwinds Diamond with 13 soloists is $400. Berlin Woodwinds Revive with 12 soloists is $725 and a further $140 for 3 more auxiliary soloists.

CSW will _likely_ cost $280 on release & in perpetuity for loyalty customers. We're all in the dark about how the ensemble will spec out but it will _likely_ continue the "simple but deep" aesthetic of the CS series.

Purely a guess -

Very Likely: soloists for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon (+4)

Likely: soloists for common aux winds Piccolo, English Horn, Contrabassoon. (+3)

Likely: a2 or a3 ensembles for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon (+4)

Less Likely: soloists for less common aux winds Alto Flute, Bass Clarinet, Eb Clarinet (+3?)

Less Likely: second soloists for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet (+3?)

Unlikely: soloists for rare aux winds Bass Flute, Contrabass Clarinet, Bass Oboe/Heckl. (+3?)

Unlikely: soloists for eth winds Penny Whistle, Duduk, Ney, etc (+?)

So yeah anywhere from 9-ish to 15-ish soloists/ensembles, who knows


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

coprhead6 said:


> This has been preventing me from picking up the BWW Soloists for about a year... I have SSW and can't stand the solo oboe and flute for exposed melodies.
> 
> Ugh, should I just grab it anyway? :\


BWW Exp B is my current go-to for oboe and English horn, and sometimes flute.

Here's a bit of BWW Exp B English horn in action. (Along with BWW Legacy for bassoons and clarinet, CSS for strings.)


----------



## coprhead6

Land of Missing Parts said:


> BWW Exp B is my current go-to for oboe and English horn, and sometimes flute.



Sweet baby jesus, that sounds amazing. 
This library blows me away every time I hear it.... I must have it!

If a library can sound this real it will be useful for the rest of our lives! 
And it's dry!


----------



## a113jackson

cqd said:


> Are they not going to be cheaper if you have both the strings and brass?..I got that impression at some stage..



Yes they should be, I was just saying the base price will likely be the same as strings and brass.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Hope CSW does everything right and does not contain a piccolo (saxophone instead please, solo and ensemble).
Nobody ever uses piccolo in orchestral music.
Cor Anglais ensemble would be welcome... a12 or so, possibly more.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

coprhead6 said:


> Sweet baby jesus, that sounds amazing.
> This library blows me away every time I hear it.... I must have it!
> 
> If a library can sound this real it will be useful for the rest of our lives!
> And it's dry!


Sorry if I'm fueling your GAS. It's well-suited for this kind of slower lyrical writing where the parts are connected. If you want to send over a bit of midi for a part that is giving you trouble with SSW I can render it out with BWW Exp B and we can see if it's any better. Sometimes GAS makes the libraries you don't own seem like they're miracle cure-alls. They're not. No one library ever is.  (Except N.)

Here's an mp3 of just the BWW Exp B English horn in the clear with all processing removed (except I boosted the volume). The reverb is all from the IR that comes with the instrument, nothing external. It was recorded bone dry, so I boosted the wet signal.


----------



## bbunker

Bluemount Score said:


> Hope CSW does everything right and does not contain a piccolo (saxophone instead please, solo and ensemble).
> Nobody ever uses piccolo in orchestral music.
> Cor Anglais ensemble would be welcome... a12 or so, possibly more.



Without a sarcasm warning I'm not sure if I should laugh or retch.

Something I've never seen sampled but have heard many times: 3 piccolos in unison. Pucker up for that one.


----------



## ryans

Bluemount Score said:


> Hope CSW does everything right and does not contain a piccolo (saxophone instead please, solo and ensemble).
> Nobody ever uses piccolo in orchestral music.
> Cor Anglais ensemble would be welcome... a12 or so, possibly more.



People think brass/percussion are the loudest sections of the orchestra? No... The highest octave on the piccolo is... pure pain.. It shouldn't be in the orchestra, it is an instrument of death.


----------



## Ashermusic

ryans said:


> It shouldn't be in the orchestra, it is an instrument of death.




Congratulations that is one the 5 silliest comments I have ever read on this forum. Beethoven and Tchaikovsky, just for openers, clearly disagreed with you.


----------



## dcoscina

rottoy said:


> I'm just hoping Alex will sample a really great oboist.
> Apart from the Berlin Woodwinds Exp B oboe and the 8Dio Claire Oboe,
> there isn't a single sampled oboe that I've taken a liking to.


Nucleus has a very nice oboe


----------



## Ashermusic

rottoy said:


> I'm just hoping Alex will sample a really great oboist.
> Apart from the Berlin Woodwinds Exp B oboe and the 8Dio Claire Oboe,
> there isn't a single sampled oboe that I've taken a liking to.



I really like the Fluffy Audio Francesco Lovecchio oboe personally.


----------



## RogiervG

I like the one in CSW... oh wait.. that is my opinion from the future.
Currently, i also like Expansion B quite a bit.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Ashermusic said:


> Beethoven and Tchaikovsky


...bringers of *death *and *pain*


----------



## Ashermusic

Bluemount Score said:


> ...bringers of *death *and *pain*



OK, I am guessing this was satire and I didn't pick up on it.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Ashermusic said:


> OK, I am guessing this was satire and I didn't pick up on it.


Happens here from time to time, quite easily actually


----------



## pawelmorytko

God im so tempted but the Berlin Woodwinds Soloists as well. The actual Berlin Woodwinds is a bit out of my budget, but the soloists sound great, seem flexible with dry/wet options and are affordable. Painfully waiting for CSWinds though


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

pawelmorytko said:


> God im so tempted but the Berlin Woodwinds Soloists as well. The actual Berlin Woodwinds is a bit out of my budget, but the soloists sound great, seem flexible with dry/wet options and are affordable. Painfully waiting for CSWinds though


BWW Exp B is more niche. Think of it like Tina Guo vol 1. There's more performance baked in, but the trade-off is that it is less flexible. Great for solos and lyrical parts that stand out, not great for building your entire ensemble, as I'm assuming CSW will be meant to do.

I believe that players perform differently when they are playing a solo rather than blending together as a section. Also, BWW Exp B is one dynamic layer only. And the "wet option" is an impulse response, just so people are aware. I like it and think it does the job well, but the actual underlying recording is dry.


----------



## rottoy

Ashermusic said:


> I really like the Fluffy Audio Francesco Lovecchio oboe personally.


Since that entry my go-to oboe has been Oboe 1 in CineWinds Core.
The softer dynamic layers are divine!


----------



## ag75

Do the BWW Expansions ever go on sale? I would love to pick them up but I'm waiting for a sale.


----------



## Raphioli

ag75 said:


> Do the BWW Expansions ever go on sale? I would love to pick them up but I'm waiting for a sale.



I think you've got some answer in the thread you posted.





Do the Berlin Woodwind expansions ever go on sale?


I forgot to look to see if the Berlin woodwind expansions were on sale for Black Friday. I’ve been meaning to pick some of these up I absolutely love the Berlin WW library.




vi-control.net





But to give another answer, they have done a completion sales this year. Not sure if it'll happen next year, since we didn't get a discount sale for their Berlin line this year, but never say never, I guess.





Orchestral Tools Completion Days -30%


Hey everyone, we're happy to announce the Orchestral Tools Completion Days. Extend your Berlin Series or get inspired by Collections that enrich your creativity with lush strings or soloists, all captured at the Teldex Scoring Stage and its Solo Booth. Save 30% and more on selected Collections...




vi-control.net


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

Another vote for the BWW Exp. B & C for soloists, as well as the solo oboe from Nucleus.


----------



## ag75

I must be getting old. I totally forgot I posted that question a while back! Ack! Thanks for reminding me. And I will look for that sale. 



Raphioli said:


> I think you've got some answer in the thread you posted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do the Berlin Woodwind expansions ever go on sale?
> 
> 
> I forgot to look to see if the Berlin woodwind expansions were on sale for Black Friday. I’ve been meaning to pick some of these up I absolutely love the Berlin WW library.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But to give another answer, they have done a completion sales this year. Not sure if it'll happen next year, since we didn't get a discount sale for their Berlin line this year, but never say never, I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Orchestral Tools Completion Days -30%
> 
> 
> Hey everyone, we're happy to announce the Orchestral Tools Completion Days. Extend your Berlin Series or get inspired by Collections that enrich your creativity with lush strings or soloists, all captured at the Teldex Scoring Stage and its Solo Booth. Save 30% and more on selected Collections...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


----------



## purple

Oh, come on! Don't bump a thread like this!


----------



## constaneum

i can't seem to find any good sounding piccolo


----------



## CT

constaneum said:


> i can't seem to find any good sounding piccolo



It's called "alto flute."


----------



## constaneum

i thought alto flute and piccolo are 2 different instruments?

from wikipedia, "The *alto flute* is an instrument in the Western concert flute family, the second-highest member below the standard C flute after the uncommon flûte d'amour in B♭, A, or A♭.[_citation needed_] It is the third most common member of its family after the standard C flute and the piccolo "


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

constaneum said:


> i thought alto flute and piccolo are 2 different instruments?
> 
> from wikipedia, "The *alto flute* is an instrument in the Western concert flute family, the second-highest member below the standard C flute after the uncommon flûte d'amour in B♭, A, or A♭.[_citation needed_] It is the third most common member of its family after the standard C flute and the piccolo "



No! Don't believe these lies. The alto flute is the good piccolo flute. The instrument that is generally referred to as the piccolo flute is a contraption of Satan.

That's why in academic circles they always tell you never to base your research on Wikipedia articles.


----------



## N.Caffrey

NoamL said:


> Absolutely -
> 
> Right now Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds with 15 soloists/ensembles is $600. Hollywood Woodwinds Diamond with 13 soloists is $400. Berlin Woodwinds Revive with 12 soloists is $725 and a further $140 for 3 more auxiliary soloists.
> 
> CSW will _likely_ cost $280 on release & in perpetuity for loyalty customers. We're all in the dark about how the ensemble will spec out but it will _likely_ continue the "simple but deep" aesthetic of the CS series.
> 
> Purely a guess -
> 
> Very Likely: soloists for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon (+4)
> 
> Likely: soloists for common aux winds Piccolo, English Horn, Contrabassoon. (+3)
> 
> Likely: a2 or a3 ensembles for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon (+4)
> 
> Less Likely: soloists for less common aux winds Alto Flute, Bass Clarinet, Eb Clarinet (+3?)
> 
> Less Likely: second soloists for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet (+3?)
> 
> Unlikely: soloists for rare aux winds Bass Flute, Contrabass Clarinet, Bass Oboe/Heckl. (+3?)
> 
> Unlikely: soloists for eth winds Penny Whistle, Duduk, Ney, etc (+?)
> 
> So yeah anywhere from 9-ish to 15-ish soloists/ensembles, who knows



I really hope to see either an alto/bass flute - bass clarinet.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Personally, I don't really need the extra instruments like alto, bass flute, basset horn, contrabass clarinet etc. They're fun and nice to have - but if the decision was between those and having a second player for the standard instruments, I'd definitely prefer the latter. I'd even say, cut the ensembles if you can do two of each instead. It's just way more important.


----------



## N.Caffrey

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Personally, I don't really need the extra instruments like alto, bass flute, basset horn, contrabass clarinet etc. They're fun and nice to have - but if the decision was between those and having a second player for the standard instruments, I'd definitely prefer the latter. I'd even say, cut the ensembles if you can do two of each instead. It's just way more important.



if that was the case, yes! I've never really used the a2 patches for woodwinds so I hope he'll use his energy for other instruments or additional players. I, unfortunately, don't think that'll be the case this time though. Maybe when the orchestra is complete, he'll go back and add stuff to the existing libraries, who knows.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

N.Caffrey said:


> if that was the case, yes! I've never really used the a2 patches for woodwinds so I hope he'll use his energy for other instruments or additional players. I, unfortunately, don't think that'll be the case this time though.



Yes, that's my concern, but let's wait and see ... it seems counter-intuitive in the case of woodwinds though. I think ensemble patches make the least sense for woodwinds and the most for strings. VSL and OT have done it right, and so far I think their WW libraries are still the measuring stick.


----------



## gohrev

NeonMediaKJT said:


> So, how much do you reckon they'll be? Same as the strings and brass?


Most likely, yes.


----------



## Simon Schrenk

NoamL said:


> Purely a guess -
> 
> Very Likely: soloists for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon (+4)
> 
> Likely: soloists for common aux winds Piccolo, English Horn, Contrabassoon. (+3)
> 
> Likely: a2 or a3 ensembles for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon (+4)
> 
> Less Likely: soloists for less common aux winds Alto Flute, Bass Clarinet, Eb Clarinet (+3?)
> 
> Less Likely: second soloists for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet (+3?)
> 
> Unlikely: soloists for rare aux winds Bass Flute, Contrabass Clarinet, Bass Oboe/Heckl. (+3?)
> 
> Unlikely: soloists for eth winds Penny Whistle, Duduk, Ney, etc (+?)
> 
> So yeah anywhere from 9-ish to 15-ish soloists/ensembles, who knows


I really hope it will be 2 soloists for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon + 1 English Horn & 1 Piccolo Flute.
Just one soloist per instrument makes no sense to me from an orchestration stand point. In that part woodwinds are just not the same as brass instruments and need to be blended together way more than the other sections. Given the consistency of the studio series, I would think you would get a pretty good a2 sound by just copy pasting the midi of Flute 1 to Flute 2...
We will see, but I'm sure it will be well thought what they sampled...


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Simon Schrenk said:


> I really hope it will be 2 soloists for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon + 1 English Horn & 1 Piccolo Flute.
> Just one soloist per instrument makes no sense to me from an orchestration stand point. In that part woodwinds are just not the same as brass instruments and need to be blended together way more than the other sections. Given the consistency of the studio series, I would think you would get a pretty good a2 sound by just copy pasting the midi of Flute 1 to Flute 2...
> We will see, but I'm sure it will be well thought what they sampled...





Land of Missing Parts said:


> According to this post from Dec 13th, here is what Cinematic Studio Series told @RogiervG in a recent email:
> 
> "...I'm very sorry but no, it won't be an end-of-year release. I know we said that a while back and we were hoping to make it by then but Alex decided to add an extra instrument which meant re-starting the recording sessions a while back. Definitely only a few months off now!"


I really hope that this decision to record the second flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon.
Otherwise, you have to do the transposition trick.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Simon Schrenk said:


> I really hope it will be 2 soloists for Flute, Oboe, Clarinet, Bassoon + 1 English Horn & 1 Piccolo Flute.
> Just one soloist per instrument makes no sense to me from an orchestration stand point. In that part woodwinds are just not the same as brass instruments and need to be blended together way more than the other sections. Given the consistency of the studio series, I would think you would get a pretty good a2 sound by just copy pasting the midi of Flute 1 to Flute 2...
> We will see, but I'm sure it will be well thought what they sampled...


I have BWW Legacy, which I think has a breakdown that is close to what you are describing. And I _miss _having an a2 or a3. (Technically BWW has a clarinets a3, but it is missing articulations and in practice hasn't been as useful to me.)

The reason I would like the a2 or a3s is because the sounds and performances are naturally mixed together in the session. Mocking up an ensemble of soloists to me starts to run into the kind of problem you'd get if you use seven solo violins versus violins 1 recorded together. They don't add up the same. In real life the musicians hear each other, the sounds interact. In sample world, they don't. And by the time I build up the whole section of soloists, I feel like it's noticeable.

By contrast, CSB has the soloist/a2 breakdown. I use soloists for each instrument, then switch to a2 when they are playing unison. I think I prefer it this way, as the additive effect is more natural.


----------



## Pablocrespo

I think that woodwinds idiomatic writing calls more for a couple separate soloists. I don’t like unison writing in woodwinds a lot (brass is another story so I do hope we get a couple of separate players per instrument. 

I do like the flute octaves patch in BWW legacy though


----------



## Scalms

Here's some info to fan the flame on this thread. I emailed Alex about a year ago to ask him when CSW would be released and also asked him if alto flute and piccolo would be included, and he replied..."I haven't recorded alto flute yet but have certainly been considering it; I've got lots of marvellous piccolo."


----------



## Bluemount Score

Scalms said:


> Here's some info to fan the flame on this thread. I emailed Alex about a year ago to ask him when CSW would be released and also asked him if alto flute and piccolo would be included, and he replied..."I haven't recorded alto flute yet but have certainly been considering it; I've got lots of marvellous piccolo."


Thank you. I love Alto Flute and hope it's gonna make it. Piccolo on the other hand is simply essential for a complete woodwind section.


----------



## Architekton

When you guys bumped this thread I thought this library was released...but, unfortunately it is not. Really cant wait for it to be released, if it will be on same quality as css and csb, I believe my quest for orch sample libraries will be over...for a while, till csp.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Architekton said:


> ...for a while, till csp.


Took me a moment to realize you are not talking about Cinematic Studio Piano


----------



## RogiervG

Bluemount Score said:


> Took me a moment to realize you are not talking about Cinematic Studio Piano


do enlight me... what is he talking about? CineSamples Piano? Percussion?


----------



## I like music

RogiervG said:


> do enlight me... what is he talking about? CineSamples Piano? Percussion?


Cinematic Studio percussion


----------



## Architekton

Yes, Percussion!


----------



## constaneum

Architekton said:


> When you guys bumped this thread I thought this library was released...but, unfortunately it is not. Really cant wait for it to be released, if it will be on same quality as css and csb, I believe my quest for orch sample libraries will be over...for a while, till csp.



Alex mentioned it'll be released beginning of 2020. I'm guessing very soon. Either jan or feb then


----------



## Scamper

constaneum said:


> Alex mentioned it'll be released beginning of 2020. I'm guessing very soon. Either jan or feb then



Oh no. There has been a lot of patience so far, but now I feel the hype seeping through.

I'd also prefer second soloists over ensembles, but as long as the English Horn is included, I'm good.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I hope Bass Clarinet, English Horn and Contrabassoon are included. there are already lots of woodwind libraries out there that exclude these instruments.


----------



## Brian Nowak

NeonMediaKJT said:


> I hope Bass Clarinet, English Horn and Contrabassoon are included. there are already lots of woodwind libraries out there that exclude these instruments.



IMO bass clarinet and contrabassoon are a must in any modern woodwind library. This is the 21st century.


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Alas, I always get excited whenever I see this thread get updated, only to be brought down when I see it's just people speculating some more, and a vague release time being tossed around...

Never-the-less! I am _hyped _for this library. Though they both have their draw-backs, both Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass are two of my favorite sample libraries, and my standard go-to libraries for orchestral writing. I usually do supplement much of the lower range instruments with more meaty stuff from other developers - I often make use of the Celli/Basses Octaves and Low Brass from Metropolis Ark 1 for when I need a really mighty sound to round out CSS and CSB, but for everything else, these libraries fit my bill splendidly, and I have every confidence in Alex that Cinematic Studio Woodwinds will become my go-to woodwind library. 

With all that said: Let me add my own 2 cents to the Speculation Spectacle!!

There'll be 3 categories of speculations of what all instruments and ensembles I think/hope/want to be included in this library. First up:

_*What I'm Expecting the Library to Actually Have:*_

-Piccolo
-Flute 1
-Flute 2
-Flute a2
-Clarinet 1
-Clarinet 2
-Clarinet a2
-Oboe 1
-Oboe 2
-Oboe a2
-Basoon 1
-Bassoon 2
-Bassoon a2

13 instruments total: 9 soloists, 4 ensembles

Now, we have:

*What I'd Be Happy to See, and Would Be More Likely to Happen:*

-Piccolo
-Flute
-Alto Flute
-Bass Flute
-Eb Clarinet
-Bb Clarinet
-Bass Clarinet
-Contrabass Clarinet
-Oboe
-English Horn
-Bassoon
-Contrabassoon

12 solo instruments

And, finally:

*Absolute Dream Library:*

-Piccolo
-Flute 1
-Flute 2
-Flute a2
-Alto Flute
-Bass Flute
-Eb Clarinet
-Bb Clarinet 1
-Bb Clarinet 2
-Bb Clarinet a2
-Bass Clarinet
-Contrabass Clarinet
-Oboe 1
-Oboe 2
-Oboe a2
-English Horn
-Basoon 1
-Bassoon 2
-Bassoon a2
-Contrabassoon
-Tenor Sax
-Alto Sax
-Baritone Sax
-Soprano Recorder
-Tenor Recorder
-Alto Recorder
-Irish Whistle
-Penny Whistle
-Baroque Flute
-Renaissance Flute
-Border Pipes
-Uilleann Pipes
-Soprano Shawm

33 instruments total: 29 soloists, 4 ensembles


As you can see, yes, a lot of the winds in my Dream Wind Library are pulled from CineWinds PRO from Cinesamples, but that would be such a complete package, with all the core orchestral and auxiliary winds, plus a good selection of ethnic winds, too, that it would absolutely tickle me. Still, though, I expect this library to more stick with the normal and auxiliary orchestral winds.


----------



## NoamL

Would you rather have a synth with *more oscillators* or *more voices*? 

Maybe my vote shouldn't count... because I don't get to write for winds that often :( but the woodwind section are the reserve of color in the orchestra... I'd much rather have all the principal and auxiliary winds - something similar to Hollywood Woodwinds's setup, perhaps Picc Fl AFL Ob EH Cl BsCL Bsn CBsn. That is like having all the colors to paint with. A second flute is just another flute! I used to think, when using Hollywood Brass, that you need multiple soloists for realism. But with CSB, I never feel the lack of a 2nd Horn or a 2nd Trumpet, and I use CSB much much more than Berlin Brass.


Just look at John Williams' scores for the first three Harry Potter movies. John and his orchestrators Conrade Pope + Eddie Karam use the auxiliary woodwinds to great effect.

In this cue all three woodwind solos are mixed sounds (AFl+Bsn, then Cl+EH, then Fl+Cl)



Or in this cue, notice how he often uses the very creepy and stark sound of Ob+Cl, often EH+Cl in the chalumeau register:




Sure... having some a2 or a3 sections is probably in the cards for CS series to be a "complete" sample orchestra, but honestly, those doublings are used more sparingly in JW's scores for things like rips & runs during big tuttis, and there's lots of libraries out there that can do those gestures.


----------



## Robert_G

NoamL said:


>




Just watched the walkthrough on this score. Very humbling. Makes me think this level of creativity can't be learned. There are things he blends and alternates in this score that I wouldn't have thought of doing in my wildest dreams. Very humbling indeed.


----------



## jaketanner

Tinesaeriel said:


> _*What I'm Expecting the Library to Actually Have:*_
> 
> -Piccolo
> -Flute 1
> -Flute 2
> -Flute a2
> -Clarinet 1
> -Clarinet 2
> -Clarinet a2
> -Oboe 1
> -Oboe 2
> -Oboe a2
> -Basoon 1
> -Bassoon 2
> -Bassoon a2



This is a typical setup, but need to add the Car Anglais, and some bass winds...but in terms of what we need...2 soloists and an a2 is perfect. Don't need an a3 and all soloists doesn't really give an ensemble sound as if two-4 players played at once. I am also looking forward to Century Winds...seems they will come out at very similar times, curious what the competition will be like between them.


----------



## brek

I would rather have a second flute than a2 or a3 flutes. I would also rather have an alto flute than a second flute. 

The CSB solo patches really stand out for their ability to work as soloists or individual players in an ensemble.


----------



## axb312

jaketanner said:


> This is a typical setup, but need to add the Car Anglais, and some bass winds...but in terms of what we need...2 soloists and an a2 is perfect. Don't need an a3 and all soloists doesn't really give an ensemble sound as if two-4 players played at once. I am also looking forward to Century Winds...seems they will come out at very similar times, curious what the competition will be like between them.



Come. Out at similar times? Source? 

8dio does woodwinds really well...


----------



## jaketanner

axb312 said:


> Come. Out at similar times? Source?
> 
> 8dio does woodwinds really well...


Similar times meaning both are over due. I’m guessing that they’ll both be released within this year.


----------



## jules

axb312 said:


> 8dio does woodwinds really well...


Yep. The claire flutes are second to none. High expectations for Century woodwinds !


----------



## Ashermusic

Robert_G said:


> Just watched the walkthrough on this score. Very humbling. Makes me think this level of creativity can't be learned. There are things he blends and alternates in this score that I wouldn't have thought of doing in my wildest dreams. Very humbling indeed.



Bear in mind, JW was not what he became at birth. He was, however, a prodigy on the piano, was well trained, and became a studio pianist before he became a successful composer. And he still practices piano daily.

But yes, he is a marvelously inventive composer.


----------



## novaburst

Ashermusic said:


> But yes, he is a marvelously inventive composer.



This


----------



## GingerMaestro

jaketanner said:


> This is a typical setup, but need to add the Car Anglais,


----------



## jaketanner

I usually check the auto correct, but missed that one. My favorite is the sordino that turns into sardines.. LOL


----------



## jbuhler

jaketanner said:


> I usually check the auto correct, but missed that one. My favorite is the sordino that turns into sardines.. LOL


"Longs" always turns into "Kong's."


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

jules said:


> Yep. The claire flutes are second to none.


Here are the comparisons of solo flute playing Leia's Theme, including the Claire Flute.


1.CineWinds
2.Berlin Woodwinds Legacy
3.Berlin Woodwinds Exp B
4.Infinite Woodwinds
5.8Dio Claire Flute
6.Spitfire Studio Woodwinds
7.Spitfire BBC SO
8.WarpIV
9.VSL (Solo flute 1)
10.Expressive Instruments (Flute prototype. More info here.)
(Labeled in the Soundcloud comments.)

You can find other similar comparisons at this thread:





Library Comparison Thread (Audio Demos)


This is a thread for comparing and discussing different libraries. We started this topic in another thread and I thought I’d move it here to try and keep it a bit more organised. Want to do a comparison: Post a midi file of what you want to compare, and tell us what what libraries you would...




vi-control.net


----------



## jimjazzuk

The bottom note of the Claire sounds like an oboe! And very bumpy


----------



## jules

This demo don't do justice to the claire flute, imo. But every scenario is different. Having cinewinds, spitfire symphonic woodwinds, auddict, berlin ww expB and claire flutes, i just can say claire is my favorite (With berlin ww expB close second).
By the way i dream of the day i won't hear a star wars theme in a demo...  !


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

jules said:


> This demo don't do justice to the claire flute, imo. But every scenario is different. Having cinewinds, spitfire symphonic woodwinds, auddict, berlin ww expB and claire flutes, i just can say claire is my favorite (With berlin ww expB close second).
> By the way i dream of the day i won't hear a star wars theme in a demo...  !


Maybe if you get time, you can add your example to the comparison thread. We don't have any Auddict, Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds. And if you can do a better Claire example, I'll replace the one that's in there.

My goal is only to share the best information available and let people decide with their own ears. I'm tired of these themes too.


----------



## jules

I'll try to post a comparison of the libraries i own tomorrow !


----------



## purple

Would rather have multiple soloists and more instruments > more ensembles. Ensembles for woodwinds to me are a much lower priority because i rarely write them in unison unless it's a tutti moment, and in a tutti moment I don't need to have the subtle difference between an a2 patch and a solo patch.

Ideally, and hopefully:
Piccolo
Flute
Flute 2
Alto Flute
Eb Clarinet
Clarinet 1
Clarinet 2
Bass Clarinet
Oboe 1
Oboe 2
English Horn
Bassoon 1
Bassoon 2
Contrabassoon

However, CSB only had 8 patches. CSS had only 5. So I don't expect there to be 14 patches in this library, unless it ends up being more expensive. There could be, but I think it is more reasonable to expect something like:

Piccolo
Flute 1
Flute 2
Alto Flute
Clarinet
Bass Clarinet
Oboe
English Horn
Bassoon
Contrabassoon

Maybe an extra soloist or two in those sections if we're lucky.


----------



## Rob Elliott

purple said:


> Would rather have multiple soloists and more instruments > more ensembles. Ensembles for woodwinds to me are a much lower priority because i rarely write them in unison unless it's a tutti moment, and in a tutti moment I don't need to have the subtle difference between an a2 patch and a solo patch.
> 
> Ideally, and hopefully:
> Piccolo
> Flute
> Flute 2
> Alto Flute
> Eb Clarinet
> Clarinet 1
> Clarinet 2
> Bass Clarinet
> Oboe 1
> Oboe 2
> English Horn
> Bassoon 1
> Bassoon 2
> Contrabassoon
> 
> However, CSB only had 8 patches. CSS had only 5. So I don't expect there to be 14 patches in this library, unless it ends up being more expensive. There could be, but I think it is more reasonable to expect something like:
> 
> Piccolo
> Flute 1
> Flute 2
> Alto Flute
> Clarinet
> Bass Clarinet
> Oboe
> English Horn
> Bassoon
> Contrabassoon
> 
> Maybe an extra soloist or two in those sections if we're lucky.



Of course the more the merrier but we'd be able to get 'most' of it done with the lower list. (if I had to pick another 'soloist' - I vote for a Clarinet 2 - I'd even trash the EH for a BA 2 . Oh heck Alex - just give us as much as you can.


----------



## purple

Rob Elliott said:


> Of course the more the merrier but we'd be able to get 'most' of it done with the lower list. (if I had to pick another 'soloist' - I vote for a Clarinet 2 - I'd even trash the EH for a BA 2 . Oh heck Alex - just give us as much as you can.


Yeah, this is the trouble with woodwinds. I have different colors I need more of than others and so on. Some may want 2 flutes, some 2 clarinets, some 2 oboes, some 2 bassoons, hell I think I'd like 2 wildly different contrabassoons to choose from. I think I trust Alex to give us at least a very pragmatic woodwind section.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

The more I think about it, I can see a good argument for writing with separately recorded soloists, because you can feel free to move them independently, sometimes bringing them together for unisons and having them diverge.

The alternate way that I was describing before, based on having one soloist and an a2--that requires an extra step of identifying and separating out the unison parts and moving them to another track. Which also creates a break in the legato transitions

But the advantage is that things add up more naturally, especially if you are at the point where you've got something like--picc, 2 flutes, 2 oboes, eng horn, 3 clarinets, 2 bsn, cbsn--spread out as 12 solo patches! With a2 patches, you at least get it down to 7, and at least some of those players were together in a room and it's not 12 striped players.

So I can see advantages and disadvantages either way. One thing I will say is that there's nothing wrong or unusual about writing winds in unisons, providing that it's only some of the time. From what I see in concert music, winds might be in unison 25-50% of the time, though it's never 100% through an entire piece.


----------



## constaneum

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Maybe if you get time, you can add your example to the comparison thread. We don't have any Auddict, Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds. And if you can do a better Claire example, I'll replace the one that's in there.
> 
> My goal is only to share the best information available and let people decide with their own ears. I'm tired of these themes too.



i have Auddict Flute. I can make one tonight thought. out of those comparisons, i think Berlin Woodwinds B sounds the best. I'm surprised with the BBC SO flute. Sounds rather bumpy and choking. Rather disappointing.


----------



## constaneum

Since what we've seen so far from CSS and CSB, i guess CSW will be having the fundamental instruments and articulations (not those extended techniques). Fundamental instruments wise, i'm referring to piccolo, flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon. Unless Alex intends to have extra bass clarinet or contrabass bassoon. I also foresee he'll have a2 patches for flutes, oboes, clarinet and bassoon (referencing from CSB setup)


----------



## cqd

constaneum said:


> Since what we've seen so far from CSS and CSB, i guess CSW will be having the fundamental instruments and articulations (not those extended techniques). Fundamental instruments wise, i'm referring to piccolo, flute, oboe, clarinet and bassoon. Unless Alex intends to have extra bass clarinet or contrabass bassoon. I also foresee he'll have a2 patches for flutes, oboes, clarinet and bassoon (referencing from CSB setup)



This is what I'd be expecting too..

What I'm really wondering is what colour it's going to be..


----------



## constaneum

tired of these themes....ahahah. Can i use other theme ?


----------



## awaey

short comparison (flute) just to show different color in tone ...
A- Flute -
B-Chris Hine1-
C-Chris Hine 2--
D-Cine wind -
E-Orch- Essentials 2--
F-Synchron SE--
G-Claire Flute


----------



## Kent

jaketanner said:


> I usually check the auto correct, but missed that one. My favorite is the sordino that turns into sardines.. LOL


“Auto” correct indeed.


----------



## galactic orange

kmaster said:


> “Auto” correct indeed.


That’s correct... the response I was hoping someone would post!


----------



## N.Caffrey

purple said:


> However, CSB only had 8 patches. CSS had only 5. So I don't expect there to be 14 patches in this library, unless it ends up being more expensive. There could be, but I think it is more reasonable to expect something like:
> 
> Piccolo
> Flute 1
> Flute 2
> Alto Flute
> Clarinet
> Bass Clarinet
> Oboe
> English Horn
> Bassoon
> Contrabassoon
> 
> Maybe an extra soloist or two in those sections if we're lucky.


This would be perfect.


----------



## constaneum

N.Caffrey said:


> This would be perfect.



indeed. this would be great.


----------



## a113jackson

It goes without saying that a contrabass piccolo is pretty much a guarantee, correct?


----------



## IdealSequenceG

I tried it with Claire Flute.


----------



## I like music

nawzadhaji said:


> short comparison (flute) just to show different color in tone ...
> A- Flute -
> B-Chris Hine1-
> C-Chris Hine 2--
> D-Cine wind -
> E-Orch- Essentials 2--
> F-Synchron SE--
> G-Claire Flute



Orch essentials one sounds pretty nice here ...

EDIT: no wait, I think I picked out the wrong one. That might have been the Cinewinds one.


----------



## I like music

IdealSequenceG said:


> I tried it with Claire Flute.




Wow, sounds pretty damn good. This isn't one of those instruments that was on a massive 8dio sale was it? One question, is that the only vibrato speed sampled?


----------



## Robert Kooijman

Hmm, just wondering, is the vibrato amount CC controllable on Claire?


----------



## I like music

Robert Kooijman said:


> Hmm, just wondering, is the vibrato amount CC controllable on Claire?



Hah, just wrote the very same thing.


----------



## IdealSequenceG

I like music said:


> Wow, sounds pretty damn good. This isn't one of those instruments that was on a massive 8dio sale was it? One question, is that the only vibrato speed sampled?


Vibrato is a recorded sample, each adjusting its speed in Melodyne.


----------



## muk

Separate soloists for each section would indeed be great. So flute 1, flute 2, oboe 1, oboe 2, clarinet 1 clarinet 2, bassoon 1, bassoon 2. I don't understand why almost all libraries were recorded flute 1, 2 flutes a 2 etc. instead. Using the transposition trick and different spatialization to create a second instrument is somewhat tedious. And it is nice to have two different colors of the same instrument to choose from.
Must be some reason I am not aware of why almost all woodwind libraries were recorded with unison patches, but no second individual player.

Given the standard of woodwind libraries I would assume that Cinematic Studio Woodwinds will have the same layout with 1 soloist, and an a2 patch. I haven't bothered to ask the company directly yet, so it's pure speculation on my part.


----------



## jules

I did a short test of the libraries i own this morning. Out of the box sound, no tweaking of any sort, single pass, same midi file routed towards different libraries. I still prefer claire because it's very agile, but there's some serious contenders. A bit of topic since this thread is about cinematic studio woodwinds, but i'll post here anyway :


----------



## jules

5 files limit...


----------



## RogiervG

When doing these compares, please make sure you are using the same kind of mics. E.g. close mics, or Decca Tree, or ambient. I hear some examples using different mics, making it sound very different than others. Which is a bit unfair when comparing.


----------



## jaketanner

I like music said:


> One question, is that the only vibrato speed sampled?


Vibrato speed is sampled HOWEVER, there are different speed articulations that you can use. For instance, a soft articulation, will give a lot less vibrato. Also the ARCs articulations start slow and go into vibrato, but I think he used the "lyrical" patch, which has a ton. So there are options for sure. Not stuck with it.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Thanks Jules and @IdealSequenceG , these are very well done. Thanks for taking the time. I added them to this post.

Solo Flute Comparisons Made by @jules (posted here)

1.Auddict Master Solo Flute
2.CineWinds
3.8Dio Claire Flute
4.EW Hollywood Woodwinds
5.Berlin Woodwinds Exp B
6.Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds
7.Symphobia 2

I apologize that I'm going so far off topic from Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.


----------



## jules

RogiervG said:


> When doing these compares, please make sure you are using the same kind of mics. E.g. close mics, or Decca Tree, or ambient. I hear some examples using different mics, making it sound very different than others. Which is a bit unfair when comparing.


It's not unfair, it's out of the box  !No tweak, loading, playing. Claire is very dry and there's no way to make it sound like spitfire or cinesample without adding a third party reverb (which is unfair because we probably don't own the same reverbs).


----------



## jules

Land of Missing Parts said:


>



Thanks for putting it on soundcloud ! Easier to compare !


----------



## constaneum

jules said:


> I did a short test of the libraries i own this morning. Out of the box sound, no tweaking of any sort, single pass, same midi file routed towards different libraries. I still prefer claire because it's very agile, but there's some serious contenders. A bit of topic since this thread is about cinematic studio woodwinds, but i'll post here anyway :



Wow. You're faster than me. Oh well...since you made an addict demo, guess I dont need to upload anymore. Ahha


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

All this talk of different instruments that may or may not be in the package, potentially doubling the amount of included articulations is exactly why I asked if you guys reckon the price would be more expensive?
Can't imagine it including Piccolo, Flute, Oboe, Bassoon, Clarinet, Bass Clarinet, English Horn, Contrabassoon AND a2 versions of Flute, Clarinet, Oboe and Bassoon for the same price?

I don't know. Lol.


----------



## Billy Palmer

If we keep bumping this thread Alex will reply with an official announcement sooner. I'm sure of this!


----------



## Ashermusic

I suspect, not knowledge based, no a2.


----------



## ism

jules said:


> It's not unfair, it's out of the box  !No tweak, loading, playing. Claire is very dry and there's no way to make it sound like spitfire or cinesample without adding a third party reverb (which is unfair because we probably don't own the same reverbs).




More complex that than even i’m afraid. For instance the spitfire flute needs both tree and close mics to be remotely comparable to the Claire’s out of the box ‘mix’ mic - That is to have any kind of up front presence. Its just very differently conceived. Tree only and its good for ambient ensemble, but lack the presence for anything soloistic. Whereas the SF close mics make no sense, sonically, without at least some tree, and probably a bit of either ambient or long reflection reverb. Which is a consequence of being recorded to work in orchestral contexts, completely unlike the Claire, or Berlin exp B.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

William Palmer said:


> If we keep bumping this thread Alex will reply with an official announcement sooner. I'm sure of this!


I hope so. But it's easy to forget that Cinematic Studios is based in Australia, which is currently undergoing castrophic bush fires (an area roughly equal to the size of the entire country of Belgium), and which could continue for months.

I do hope everyone at Cinematic Studios is doing well, along with their family and friends.


----------



## Hadrondrift

William Palmer said:


> If we keep bumping this thread Alex will reply with an official announcement sooner.


One can only hope that his business and/or he himself is not affected by those horrible bush fires in Australia.

EDIT/@Lands of M.P.: Two people, one thought


----------



## Symfoniq

Hadrondrift said:


> One can only hope that his business and/or he himself is not affected by those horrible bush fires in Australia.
> 
> EDIT/@Lands of M.P.: Two people, one thought



I corresponded with Alex a few days ago (he provides top-notch support if you ever need it). I didn't think to ask about the brushfires, but he said he was still plugging away on CSW and really happy with how it was coming along. It sounds like he's safe for now.


----------



## jaketanner

As long as we are speculating and asking. I see many only want 2 flute solos along with a2, but reality is that there are usually 4 flutes, clarinets and oboe players. So why only have flutes 1& 2? We should have clarinets and oboes to choose from as well. )along with the bass instruments of course and an alto flute.


----------



## cqd

I want my choice of four bass clarinets as well ideally..


----------



## Manuel Stumpf

I like music said:


> Wow, sounds pretty damn good. This isn't one of those instruments that was on a massive 8dio sale was it?


It is one of those. Normally the individual Claire Woodwinds go on flash sale between $18 and $38.
The Claire Flute sounds a bit oboeish in the lower register.
Secret tip: I consider the Claire Alto Flute even more lovely than the flute.

The legato patches have many keyswitches for different note attacks. So always bear in mind just throwing a midi (without keyswitches) against that instrument can't reveal its true capability.
Also the vibrato kicks in earlier or later and also more/less pronounced depending on what is being used.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

jaketanner said:


> but reality is that there are usually 4 flutes, clarinets and oboe players.


My understanding is that traditional orchestras might have closer to two or three of those players. And when there's three, one will often double as the auxiliary instrument (flute 3 will double as piccolo, oboe 3 as English horn, etc). And Cinematic Series seems to be in line with traditional orchestra. (There are four horns in CSB for example).


----------



## a113jackson

NeonMediaKJT said:


> All this talk of different instruments that may or may not be in the package, potentially doubling the amount of included articulations is exactly why I asked if you guys reckon the price would be more expensive?
> Can't imagine it including Piccolo, Flute, Oboe, Bassoon, Clarinet, Bass Clarinet, English Horn, Contrabassoon AND a2 versions of Flute, Clarinet, Oboe and Bassoon for the same price?
> 
> I don't know. Lol.



I suppose this makes sense. It's just hard for me to imagine a WW library costing more than strings and brass, lol


----------



## a113jackson

Also, no one is talking about what's truly important - what color will the GUI theme be?


----------



## cqd

a113jackson said:


> Also, no one is talking about what's truly important - what color will the GUI theme be?



I brought that up a couple of pages ago..I'm thinking a light blue for some reason..


----------



## a113jackson

cqd said:


> I brought that up a couple of pages ago..I'm thinking a light blue for some reason..



That sounds similar to CSSS. I was expecting WWs to be a dark green, and percussion to be yellow.


----------



## cqd

a113jackson said:


> That sounds similar to CSSS. I was expecting WWs to be a dark green, and percussion to be yellow.



Damnit, you're right.. forgot about CSSS..my next guess would be a kind of yellow..


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

The winds GUI will of course have the color of beans! Because... winds... y'know... ok, more beer for me!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

a113jackson said:


> Also, no one is talking about what's truly important - what color will the GUI theme be?


Green, I reckon


----------



## jaketanner

Land of Missing Parts said:


> My understanding is that traditional orchestras might have closer to two or three of those players. And when there's three, one will often double as the auxiliary instrument (flute 3 will double as piccolo, oboe 3 as English horn, etc). And Cinematic Series seems to be in line with traditional orchestra. (There are four horns in CSB for example).


It all depends on size. CSS seems to be on the smaller side of symphonic, so perhaps a smaller WW section might fit better.


----------



## constaneum

jaketanner said:


> It all depends on size. CSS seems to be on the smaller side of symphonic, so perhaps a smaller WW section might fit better.



smaller section with a2 patches would be great. I was actually comparing it with SSW. i have to say SSW sounds soo much better than SStW in terms of legato.


----------



## cqd

Well, you can be sure that the legato on this is going to be so good that a month after it's out I'll be sick of people telling newbs that the legato is the best..


----------



## constaneum

there's no doubt that CSS has one of the finest legato sound but the only patch i dont like is the Marcato patch. The timbre of the strings suddenly sounds way different from the normal legato patch. it's like the normal legato is up to FF and then Marcato starts with FFF (for example) and heavier vibrato. I was expecting the Marcato patch to be a faster legato playable patch but with tone not too far off from the normal legato patch. Suddenly you felt that those 2 articulations sound like from 2 different string libraries.

You dont see that happening in CSB though. Marcato can indeed reach a higher dynamic range than the normal legato patch but the sound of the brass didn't differ to much. hmm..


----------



## jaketanner

constaneum said:


> smaller section with a2 patches would be great. I was actually comparing it with SSW. i have to say SSW sounds soo much better than SStW in terms of legato.


I think it might sound smoother because of the room. One has more ambience that can help smooth things out, the other is drier...I have the Pro Studio Series, not the Symphonic, but I would imagine that could be a factor.


----------



## purple

jaketanner said:


> As long as we are speculating and asking. I see many only want 2 flute solos along with a2, but reality is that there are usually 4 flutes, clarinets and oboe players. So why only have flutes 1& 2? We should have clarinets and oboes to choose from as well. )along with the bass instruments of course and an alto flute.


For bigger pieces yes, but the traditional orchestra would only have two full time players and maybe an auxiliary player for the woodwinds. 4 or more flutes is rare unless you have multiple auxiliary instruments. You'd most certainly be hard-pressed to find many examples of flutes a4 in unison in orchestral writing, that's for sure.


----------



## purple

a113jackson said:


> Also, no one is talking about what's truly important - what color will the GUI theme be?


I think it will be a nice forest greenish. We already have reddish orange and a couple shades of blue. Green seems to complement those the most. Maybe yellow/gold for percussion?


----------



## Robert_G

I'm thinking about the overloaded server for the first week or so.


----------



## jaketanner

purple said:


> You'd most certainly be hard-pressed to find many examples of flutes a4 in unison in orchestral writing, that's for sure.


Absolutely...not suggesting to have an a4 patch, but 2 soloists and an a2 patch would be more helpful...across the board for oboe and clarinet. OR have different types of clarinets..just looking for variety as it would be for live.


----------



## purple

jaketanner said:


> Absolutely...not suggesting to have an a4 patch, but 2 soloists and an a2 patch would be more helpful...across the board for oboe and clarinet. OR have different types of clarinets..just looking for variety as it would be for live.


Oh I get you now. But I doubt we could have all of that and keep the same price point. 2 soloists for even a couple sections might be pushing it.


----------



## jaketanner

purple said:


> Oh I get you now. But I doubt we could have all of that and keep the same price point. 2 soloists for even a couple sections might be pushing it.


CS gave us soloists for brass at the same price....and I think the WW recording costs are less...Taking a guess here. Far less musicians to pay...and perhaps faster in the studio to record the parts. I am judging by other libraries...WWs are usually the same or less expensive across the board. Also, I am pretty sure that they wouldn't make their WW library more money than Strings or brass...And if we examine the price per library, the strings are more money as a whole, because the solo strings is a separate library. Brass has solo built in for the same $399...so I don't think it would be a stretch to either give us a similar breakdown as in the brass, or two separate libraries...all speculation.. LOL But fun to imagine anyway.


----------



## brek

It seems common to keep WW costs down by sampling fewer dynamic layers.

They could do:

flute 1
flute 2
piccolo
Alto flute
Oboe 1
Oboe 2
Eng horn
Bb Clarinet 1
Bb Clarinet 2
Bs clarinet
Bassoon 1
Bassoon 2
contrabassoon

13 patches, 8-13 musicians.

Compare that to CSB:

9 musicians, 8 patches

But, CSB is, I think, 5 dynamic layers?

They could keep it to 3 for CSW and end up with around the same number of samples (that's a WAG on my part).

On top of that, CSB also adds mutes (though maybe those are emulated like in CSS?).


All of which is to say, I don't think it's unreasonable to hope for more than a "bare bones" library. Either way, I'm excited to see what they come up with.


----------



## leon chevalier

brek said:


> flute 1
> flute 2
> piccolo
> Alto flute
> Oboe 1
> Oboe 2
> Eng horn
> Bb Clarinet 1
> Bb Clarinet 2
> Bs clarinet
> Bassoon 1
> Bassoon 2
> contrabassoon


It would be ideal!


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

I wonder if the oboe CSW can be no worse than the Berlin soloist 1. So far, this layer has not been surpassed by anyone in my opinion. We will find out soon. I look forward to this library. I have the most anticipated this year.


----------



## jaketanner

brek said:


> They could do:
> 
> flute 1
> flute 2
> piccolo
> Alto flute
> Oboe 1
> Oboe 2
> Eng horn
> Bb Clarinet 1
> Bb Clarinet 2
> Bs clarinet
> Bassoon 1
> Bassoon 2
> contrabassoon


So this is a solo library you are hoping for? CS is cinematic, so I would imagine they'd do ensembles first, but my best guess, is it would be very similar in layout to CSB. 1-2 soloists and ensemble patches. This covers most things without getting too nuts...lol


----------



## Bluemount Score

brek said:


> But, CSB is, I think, 5 dynamic layers?


4, just like CSS.


----------



## purple

jaketanner said:


> So this is a solo library you are hoping for? CS is cinematic, so I would imagine they'd do ensembles first, but my best guess, is it would be very similar in layout to CSB. 1-2 soloists and ensemble patches. This covers most things without getting too nuts...lol


I hope they didn't waste time on ensemble patches tbh... The only time it's generally useful to write a2 woodwinds is in tutti orchestra moments for the sake of volume, but in VI world, we have faders...


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

jaketanner said:


> So this is a solo library you are hoping for? CS is cinematic, so I would imagine they'd do ensembles first, but my best guess, is it would be very similar in layout to CSB. 1-2 soloists and ensemble patches. This covers most things without getting too nuts...lol



Well not "solo library". Can you really do your woodwinds harmony and voicings with a2 patches? It just doesn't make sense to me. What do people do with woodwinds ensemble patches? Give the higest note to two flutes in unison, the note below that to the oboes etc.? Is this how people prefer to do their woodwinds stuff with samples? I don't quite get it. Are woodwinds only ever used in tutti? It's just not how it's done, which it why it always puzzled me why any library wood have an ensemble patch, but not feature two single players. I mean "cinematic" doesn't have to mean "woodwinds as an afterthought" either, surely there's film music with proper woodwinds orchestration out there?


----------



## ridgero

jaketanner said:


> So this is a solo library you are hoping for? CS is cinematic, so I would imagine they'd do ensembles first, but my best guess, is it would be very similar in layout to CSB. 1-2 soloists and ensemble patches. This covers most things without getting too nuts...lol



I am no expert, but I don‘t need Woodwind ensembles, I rather take soloist. How often do Woodwinds play unisono?


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Are woodwinds only ever used in tutti? It's just not how it's done, which it why it always puzzled me why any library wood have an ensemble patch, but not feature two single players.


In concert music it's common for woodwinds to play a2 some of the time. Here's an example from Daphnis and Chloe.






You can see clarinets in unison during bar one, and oboes in unison in bars two through four. So if you are asking how I'd use an a2 patch, I'd use it for those bars. In my DAW, I'd have solo clarinet 1, solo clarinet 2, then I'd have a separate patch for clarinets a2. When they play independently, I use solo 1 and clarinet 2. When they play unison, I'd drag those midi notes into the a2 patch. It's the same concept in CSB too.


----------



## ism

Land of Missing Parts said:


> In concert music it's common for woodwinds to play a2 some of the time. Here's an example from Daphnis and Chloe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see clarinets in unison during bar one, and oboes in unison in bars two through four. So if you are asking how I'd use an a2 patch, I'd use it for those bars. In my DAW, I'd have clarinet 1, clarinet 2, then I'd have a separate patch for clarinets a2. When they play independently, I use solo clarinet 1 and solo clarinet 2. When they play unison, I'd drag those midi notes into the a2 patch. It's the same concept in CSB too.



The next question is just how much of a difference does an a2 patch make vs 2 solo patches?


----------



## purple

Land of Missing Parts said:


> In concert music it's common for woodwinds to play a2 some of the time. Here's an example from Daphnis and Chloe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see clarinets in unison during bar one, and oboes in unison in bars two through four. So if you are asking how I'd use an a2 patch, I'd use it for those bars. In my DAW, I'd have solo clarinet 1, solo clarinet 2, then I'd have a separate patch for clarinets a2. When they play independently, I use solo 1 and clarinet 2. When they play unison, I'd drag those midi notes into the a2 patch. It's the same concept in CSB too.


I'm not going to claim that no good composer has _ever_ written a unison in the woodwinds, of course that happens from time to time, sometimes even exposed. I won't comment on specific pieces but I imagine it is rarely a very deliberate choice unless it's for the purpose of balance. But the reality of a sample library at $400 before discounts is we are not likely to get 2 soloists _*and* _ensembles for each section _and_ have auxiliaries, and I'd much rather have 2 soloists than a soloist and ensembles. To be completely honest, I'd go even further and say I'd rather have 3 soloists, more articulations, deeper sampling, or more auxiliaries than 2 soloists and an ensemble patch.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Land of Missing Parts said:


> You can see clarinets in unison during bar one, and oboes in unison in bars two through four. So if you are asking how I'd use an a2 patch, I'd use it for those bars. In my DAW, I'd have solo clarinet 1, solo clarinet 2, then I'd have a separate patch for clarinets a2. When they play independently, I use solo 1 and clarinet 2. When they play unison, I'd drag those midi notes into the a2 patch.



That's how I do it as well. If there truly is a unison, I'll reach for the ensemble patch of course. But often times it's gonna be a particular type of voicing where the instruments are going to be spread out as a superposition, in an interlocking manner etc. So having the solo players as well as the ensembles would of course be ideal, but if corners needed to be cut, I must say I'd definitely prefer having the two soloists and "faking" the ensemble. Sure, with one solo player, there's still the transposition trick route, but I always feel a bit uncomfortable with that.


----------



## jaketanner

ridgero said:


> I am no expert, but I don‘t need Woodwind ensembles, I rather take soloist. How often do Woodwinds play unisono?


Soloists are great, but a bunch of soloists do not create an ensemble sound though. And 2 players in unison in not that uncommon...this all comes down to the size of the orchestra being used.


----------



## jaketanner

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I must say I'd definitely prefer having the two soloists and "faking" the ensemble.


agreed here.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Sure, with one solo player, there's still the transposition trick route, but I always feel a bit uncomfortable with that.


No need for the transposition trick if they are playing different notes, right? And if they play the same notes, use the a2 patch for those notes.

The way I see it, there are ups and downs to either two soloists versus solo and a2 method. Two soloists allows you to save a step of separating out the unisons, but they are two striped players versus two players who are in a room together, hearing each other. Also, solo and a2 method means a break in the legato each time you need to switch patches. Two soloists save you a step, but a2 gives more realism. 

I do think that having two soloists can put you in a mindset of writing more independently, since you can easily go in and out of unisons. I also think players performing in a room together will change their mindset and their performance, rather than performing in isolation, and that it's worth thinking about the nature of the performance that is being captured as well.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Land of Missing Parts said:


> No need for the transposition trick if they are playing different notes, right? And if they play the same notes, use the a2 patch for those notes.



Yes, but I'd still always prefer to have two different players. Just adds to the realism and liveliness if you're not actually listening to the same sample set twice, but mainly because with two different players, there is the possibility of doing long and intricate lines where you'd want to pass on the line to the other player every few measures because realistically the first one would run of of breath. Like The Moldau where the flutes just go on forever, and the passing occures on a shared pitch. Of course for the sake of the mockup you can just do it with one player, but it's nicer and more musical if you can truly alternate.

But as someone already said, we're talking about a very affordably priced series here, so I'm aware that it probably isn't very sensible to expect a full range of soloists AND ensemble patches .. and perhaps bonus instruments on top of that. Realistically it's probably gonna be like CSB with one soloist of each and ensemble patches.


----------



## Ashermusic

jaketanner said:


> agreed here.



AND there is nothing wrong with using the soloists in the more exposed passages with ensembles in the less exposed from other libraries. I have been doing that for years.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Got curious and contacted the support. They are very friendly, even though I'm slightly disappointed that we have to wait even longer  


"We originally thought we'd have CSW finished by now, but we're a very small team and Alex really puts his heart and soul into the work, so it always takes longer than we expect. We definitely (hopefully) expect it to be ready by the middle of the year, and will send out discount coupons to all our customers on the day it's released. Sorry I can't be more precise!"


----------



## N.Caffrey

Bluemount Score said:


> Got curious and contacted the support. They are very friendly, even though I'm slightly disappointed that we have to wait even longer
> 
> 
> "We originally thought we'd have CSW finished by now, but we're a very small team and Alex really puts his heart and soul into the work, so it always takes longer than we expect. We definitely (hopefully) expect it to be ready by the middle of the year, and will send out discount coupons to all our customers on the day it's released. Sorry I can't be more precise!"



Middle of the year!? Damn, I thought we'd have seen it next month :(


----------



## Leandro Gardini

It's impressive how many misconceptions are there when it comes to woodwinds. Based on a single comment we can see if the guy studies orchestration on scores or not. 
Computer music certainly puts us on a weird track of orchestration.


----------



## BassClef

Yes. Their customer service is great, but this is very disappointing. Early last month I purchased their full library (strings, solo strings, brass, piano) after checking with them on the woodwinds projected arrival. I was told that they originally planned late 2019, they were pushing that back to early 2020... Feb. I have no other woodwinds library so I thought I could handle that wait. Now I may have to wait another six months and look for a woodwind library.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

One thing you might want to keep in mind is that this is what was happening in Alex's neighborhood






as well as other large swaths of Australia.






Australia Safety Check!


Really sorry for the natural disaster currently happening in Australia. Not sure about the impact on urbanized areas but hope the whole country recovers from this soon. Hope all members from Australia (@Cory Pelizzari and @Alex W the ones I know/on top of my head) and their loved ones are safe...




vi-control.net


----------



## Scamper

Even then, that's why they are likely hesitant to give out release dates.
Also, didn't they go back to the studio for additional recordings? Nothing disappointing about that. 
In the end, the quality will be worth the wait and patience.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

More time = greater quality. Sounds good to me. 

There are other solid WW libs out there that don’t cost a fortune, so those can hold you over until CSW arrives.


----------



## tim727

I think the frustration is not in how long it's taking as much as the consistently incorrect release date predictions. Back around Black Friday 2018 I was looking for a woodwind library and trying to decide whether to take advantage of OT's BWW sale or wait for CSW. I emailed support and Alex responded and told me the lib should be out in a few months. I decided to jump on BWW because I had no clue how long it would actually be ... and it turns out that it was the right decision because they didn't either 

I'm not trying to rag on Alex or Cinematic Studio. I love their products and fully support them taking as long as they need to get things right. I wish more developers did that rather than rushing to market with a bunch of bugs. My advice to them though would be to stop giving out even vague release dates, since even those seem to end up way off most of the time. Just tell people you're working on it and you'll let them know once it's done!


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Truthfully, I was fully expecting something like this to happen. Just look at the wait we all went through with CSB. So when I saw an "early-2020 release date" floating around, I estimated that it would actually translate something more along the lines of "anywhere from late-Q1 2020 to late-Q2 2020." 

Even now, with them saying "middle of the year," I've set my expectations that the library will actually be released sometime in early or mid-autumn.

Still, though, if the rest of the Cinematic Studio Series is anything to go off of, this library will be more than worth the wait, and worth every penny. Besides, I get great use out of CineWinds, Berlin Expansion B, Metropolis Ark 2, and the tutti winds in libraries like Albion ONE, Symphobia, and Hollywoodwinds. I'm covered for woodwind options for right now, so now I'm just waiting on this library to give something better quality than everything else I have right now, and I'm content to wait.


----------



## gussunkri

tim727 said:


> I think the frustration is not in how long it's taking as much as the consistently incorrect release date predictions. Back around Black Friday 2018 I was looking for a woodwind library and trying to decide whether to take advantage of OT's BWW sale or wait for CSW. I emailed support and Alex responded and told me the lib should be out in a few months. I decided to jump on BWW because I had no clue how long it would actually be ... and it turns out that it was the right decision because they didn't either
> 
> I'm not trying to rag on Alex or Cinematic Studio. I love their products and fully support them taking as long as they need to get things right. I wish more developers did that rather than rushing to market with a bunch of bugs. My advice to them though would be to stop giving out even vague release dates, since even those seem to end up way off most of the time. Just tell people you're working on it and you'll let them know once it's done!


Is Alex the GRR Martin of sample libraries? (Winds of winter, where are you?!)


----------



## Robert_G

gussunkri said:


> Is Alex the GRR Martin of sample libraries? (Winds of winter, where are you?!)



He is overweight and old....and he is a procrastinator. He will die before the last book is complete.


----------



## tim727

gussunkri said:


> Is Alex the GRR Martin of sample libraries? (Winds of winter, where are you?!)



Haha he very well could be. Hopefully CSW will turn out better than the end of GoT ...


----------



## yiph2

asked them about woodwinds and percussion
here is their reply:
John here from CS Info and Marketing, thanks for your inquiry. Yes, we're working on woodwinds right now and should have it ready for release in a few months. We'll be working on percussion after that but I'm afraid I don't have a timeline for that library yet. We're a very small team so it does take us a while between releases. Please let me know if you have any further questions.


----------



## Pantonal

Bluemount Score said:


> Got curious and contacted the support. They are very friendly, even though I'm slightly disappointed that we have to wait even longer
> 
> 
> "We originally thought we'd have CSW finished by now, but we're a very small team and Alex really puts his heart and soul into the work, so it always takes longer than we expect. We definitely (hopefully) expect it to be ready by the middle of the year, and will send out discount coupons to all our customers on the day it's released. Sorry I can't be more precise!"





yiph2 said:


> asked them about woodwinds and percussion
> here is their reply:
> John here from CS Info and Marketing, thanks for your inquiry. Yes, we're working on woodwinds right now and should have it ready for release in a few months. We'll be working on percussion after that but I'm afraid I don't have a timeline for that library yet. We're a very small team so it does take us a while between releases. Please let me know if you have any further questions.


Regarding CSW we've received mixed messages. So is it "middle of the year" or "in a few months"? Of course it doesn't surprise me that support and marketing would have different ideas regarding release date. But, "in a few months" was the more recent information. Clarity please!


----------



## Robert_G

Its easier to say that "it will be released in the future".


----------



## BassClef

"in a few months"... same answer I got last October. I've been holding off buying a woodwinds library... getting by with Kontakt Basic library and ensemble patches in the Albion's. So I'll see CSW when I see it!


----------



## pawelmorytko

I'm so close to getting Berlin Woodwinds Soloists but keep hoping that CSW will be out by march/April....


----------



## N.Caffrey

pawelmorytko said:


> I'm so close to getting Berlin Woodwinds Soloists but keep hoping that CSW will be out by march/April....


I don’t think it’s coming out before June..


----------



## I like music

gussunkri said:


> Is Alex the GRR Martin of sample libraries? (Winds of winter, where are you?!)



Patrick Rothfuss I'd say!


----------



## Michael Stibor

pawelmorytko said:


> I'm so close to getting Berlin Woodwinds Soloists but keep hoping that CSW will be out by march/April....


I'm actually trying to delay the completion of my next album, in the hopes that CSW comes out soon so that I can replace all my VSL/Spitfire samples with it. I doubt that's going to happen.


----------



## Kubler

mikefrommontreal said:


> I'm actually trying to delay the completion of my next album, in the hopes that CSW comes out soon so that I can replace all my VSL/Spitfire samples with it. I doubt that's going to happen.



Exact same thing for the exact same reason… I just can't wait


----------



## coprhead6

Spitfire has left me borderline angry that there are no re-tongue legatos!

So stoked for this release.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Pantonal said:


> Regarding CSW we've received mixed messages. So is it "middle of the year" or "in a few months"? Of course it doesn't surprise me that support and marketing would have different ideas regarding release date. But, "in a few months" was the more recent information. Clarity please!


"In a few months" and "middle of the year" could very well be the same thing, in the end.


----------



## purple

Well, "middle of the year" is in the late spring-summer-ish. May-july I guess. May is in 2 months. In a few months sounds like the middle of the year to me. But I will also echo what was said above: "in the future"
Until they officially state anything about a release date or window, all we can do is expect it in the future. Anything else is just setting yourself up for disappointment.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

purple said:


> Well, "middle of the year" is in the late spring-summer-ish. May-july I guess. May is in 2 months. In a few months sounds like the middle of the year to me. But I will also echo what was said above: "in the future"
> Until they officially state anything about a release date or window, all we can do is expect it in the future. Anything else is just setting yourself up for disappointment.


At any given moment it's a few months away. It's the Zeno's Paradox of sample libraries.


----------



## axb312

Any updates on this? (Don't kill me!)


----------



## I like music

axb312 said:


> Any updates on this? (Don't kill me!)



It'll be released within the next 2 months to 5 years.


----------



## Bluemount Score

I like music said:


> It'll be released within the next 2 months to 5 years.


That would be lucky!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

axb312 said:


> Any updates on this? (Don't kill me!)


Feb 27: "Should have it ready for release in a few months." According to this post.


----------



## purple

I spoke personally with Alex and he said it could come any time in the next decade


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

purple said:


> I spoke personally with Alex and he said it could come any time in the next decade



Next gen library!


----------



## jimjazzuk

You know what would perk me up no end in these dark and difficult times....


----------



## pawelmorytko

All these sales being thrown around and the only things I'm waiting for is CSW and an OT port to SINE (with a hopeful sale)


----------



## I like music

jimjazzuk said:


> You know what would perk me up no end in these dark and difficult times....



CSB low brass patch?


----------



## cqd

I like music said:


> CSB low brass patch?



I half made one myself by taking the trumpets and horns out of the ensemble patch..


----------



## purple

Why would you bump this thread... Curse you....


----------



## RogiervG

purple said:


> Why would you bump this thread... Curse you....




ok.. i'll bump it too..  (Alex? hello? any updates yet?)


----------



## purple

Knock knock....
Oh, nobody's home...yet..........


----------



## emilio_n

I talked with Cinematic Studio guys a couple of days ago and they told me that they are working hard to have ready in a few months but all depends on how the Coronavirus affect their work.


----------



## axb312

emilio_n said:


> I talked with Cinematic Studio guys a couple of days ago and they told me that they are working hard to have ready in a few months but all depends on how the Coronavirus affect their work.



Not quite sure what that means. I think recording for the Woodwinds was finished a while ago. Most of the other stuff can be done from a home studio I believe.

Perhaps the wildfires and now Corona have had a much more adverse effect on their personal lives.

Difficult times - was also hoping for CSW to be out by now....


----------



## emilio_n

axb312 said:


> Not quite sure what that means. I think recording for the Woodwinds was finished a while ago. Most of the other stuff can be done from a home studio I believe.
> 
> Perhaps the wildfires and now Corona have had a much more adverse effect on their personal lives.
> 
> Difficult times - was also hoping for CSW to be out by now....


Yeah... not sure. I suppose they are working in the scripting. In any case, I am glad to know they are not hurried and will make a very good product. I didn't buy CSB yet, so I can wait


----------



## purple

Don't see the point of asking them when it'll be done. If it's close and they know, they will just post a demo. Otherwise they are just pulling answers out of their ass so they can get back to actually working on it. Let them take their time and get it right. If these crises affect the deadline, then so be it!


----------



## David Kudell

If I had a nickel for every time someone brought up CSW, I could have bought everyone Berlin Woodwinds...and you’d all be extremely happy with it. 👍


----------



## scoringdreams

Whoever that revived this thread gave me a mini heart attack. I am in no condition yet to spend during COVID-19.


----------



## Michael Stibor

purple said:


> Don't see the point of asking them when it'll be done. If it's close and they know, they will just post a demo. Otherwise they are just pulling answers out of their ass so they can get back to actually working on it. Let them take their time and get it right. If these crises affect the deadline, then so be it!


Well I guess it’s because they were giving estimated deadlines for a while and so many of us having been holding out from buying other options due to their “fall of 2019, January of 2020” answers. But yeah otherwise I agree with you. At this point, all we can do is be patient. 
I remember last time though when CSB came out, it just shot out of nowhere. They announced it, had demos, and a week later it was out. I loved that. There was none of that Spitfire hype machine crap.


----------



## Eptesicus

emilio_n said:


> I talked with Cinematic Studio guys a couple of days ago and they told me that they are working hard to have ready in a few months but all depends on how the Coronavirus affect their work.



Wasnt that the line a few months ago ?


----------



## dcoscina




----------



## BassClef

I wish it was TOMORROW, but I'm just a hobbyist so I get by with the woods from Kontakt Factory Library and a few Albion's.


----------



## Billy Palmer

Stop bumping this thread!!!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

William Palmer said:


> Stop bumping this thread!!!


bruh I'm bumping this POST


----------



## purple

Cinematic studio bump time


----------



## lgmcben

What make this series so popular amongst professionals?

I mean, I'm a hobbyist. I still don't have any lib that provide separate section patches. After some research I'm pretty much set for Cinematic Studio Series. It's not too large (30gb), not too expensive (compared to those heavyweight like Berlin or BBC). I still haven't bought any of this though, saving up money for it. 

For me working on a laptop, those library of 200-300GB is ridiculous. But for professionals isn't stuff like Berlin or BBC more preferable?


----------



## jaketanner

lgmcben said:


> What make this series so popular amongst professionals?
> 
> I mean, I'm a hobbyist. I still don't have any lib that provide separate section patches. After some research I'm pretty much set for Cinematic Studio Series. It's not too large (30gb), not too expensive (compared to those heavyweight like Berlin or BBC). I still haven't bought any of this though, saving up money for it.
> 
> For me working on a laptop, those library of 200-300GB is ridiculous. But for professionals isn't stuff like Berlin or BBC more preferable?


Laptop has nothing to do with the library size...you should be working off external drives anyway. Where a laptop will bottleneck is if you are stuck with anything less than 32 gigs of RAM and at least an i7 processor.

Honestly, BBC wouldn't be a professional's choice, in the sense that it's meant to be used as a complete orchestral solution. Not that you'd take strings from there because they're better, or woodwinds and then combine them with another great library...it's meant to be kept all in one...that's how it's going to shine most. Which means that you'd have to be happy with the BBC sound for the most part. Many pros wouldn't necessarily do that, most importantly because they are already invested in combining libraries, and I don't think BBC on it's own is better than others. (I don't have it, but have heard demos and been reading lots of threads since before it came out).

Berlin is excellent, and pricey...and it's definitely on a professional level, but a lot of pros also use CSS, and Spitfire libraries as well as LASS and VSL. It all comes down to what you intend to write with it.

CSS and CSB just sound great, and the legato engine is among the best out there. They're a bit darker than most libraries but functional and can sound realistic if programmed correctly especially if you add the CSSS as first chairs...libraries like Berlin and Spitfire, have a lot more articulations, for more detailed work. 

Hope this helps a bit.


----------



## dcoscina

lgmcben said:


> What make this series so popular amongst professionals?
> 
> I mean, I'm a hobbyist. I still don't have any lib that provide separate section patches. After some research I'm pretty much set for Cinematic Studio Series. It's not too large (30gb), not too expensive (compared to those heavyweight like Berlin or BBC). I still haven't bought any of this though, saving up money for it.
> 
> For me working on a laptop, those library of 200-300GB is ridiculous. But for professionals isn't stuff like Berlin or BBC more preferable?


Most libraries aren't that huge. The multiple mics are the reason why they are getting larger insofar as memory footprint.


----------



## purple

lgmcben said:


> What make this series so popular amongst professionals?
> 
> I mean, I'm a hobbyist. I still don't have any lib that provide separate section patches. After some research I'm pretty much set for Cinematic Studio Series. It's not too large (30gb), not too expensive (compared to those heavyweight like Berlin or BBC). I still haven't bought any of this though, saving up money for it.
> 
> For me working on a laptop, those library of 200-300GB is ridiculous. But for professionals isn't stuff like Berlin or BBC more preferable?


Hard drives are cheap these days. You can get a terabyte internal SSD for like $130 last time I checked. Even cheaper external or hard disk. I store all my big libraries on the internal drives with an extra external one for the samples that don't have as big a footprint. You can probably use an external one if you're worried about not having space for libraries on your laptop. I wouldn't install big collections on your boot drive because that'll slow things down. 

The CS series is popular because it just works. It's insanely consistent across all keys and samples and has by far the most realistic and butter smooth legato on the market. You can copy and paste midi data from instrument to instrument and key to key and collection to collection within the series and just know that it will work. The retongue articulation in the legato patches is not something that I have found anywhere else as well, might be wrong. Add to all that that it's cheap and gets cheaper after you;ve bought one, and it becomes a great pickup for anyone from a beginner to a hollywood award-winner.


----------



## Symfoniq

purple said:


> Cinematic studio bump time



So evil.


----------



## Robo Rivard

I'm pretty sure CSW will meet all of our expectetions and will find its way in most professionnal templates. My worry is with CSP (Cinematic Studio Percussion). People already own quite a lot of percussion libraries, and I wonder what CSP will offer that other developpers don't... They will have to stick out from the crowd. I guess they will concentrate on chromatic percussions to make a difference.


----------



## muziksculp

dcoscina said:


> Most libraries aren't that huge. The multiple mics are the reason why they are getting larger insofar as memory footprint.



I think more than three mic positions is an overkill.


----------



## Symfoniq

Robo Rivard said:


> I'm pretty sure CSW will meet all of our expectetions and will find its way in most professionnal templates. My worry is with CSP (Cinematic Studio Percussion). People already own quite a lot of percussion libraries, and I wonder what CSP will offer that other developpers don't... They will have to stick out from the crowd. I guess they will concentrate on chromatic percussions to make a difference.



I think the desire to "complete the set" will be high. In fact, I'll probably skip the current offer on CinePerc just because I'm pretty sure I'd rather have CSP.


----------



## filipjonathan

Imagine if one of these days CS releases CSW and all of us get a free copy as an apology for waiting for so long..... Eh a guy can dream right? 😂


----------



## Gingerbread

It will get released, and because anticipation and expectations are running so high, everyone will complain that it doesn't live up to their dream. "I don't like the tone", "Not enough solo patches", etc.

Taking bets now.


----------



## Robo Rivard

Gingerbread said:


> It will get released, and because anticipation and expectations are running so high, everyone will complain that it doesn't live up to their dream. "I don't like the tone", "Not enough solo patches", etc.
> 
> Taking bets now.


It didn't happen with Cinematic Studio Brass...


----------



## Symfoniq

Gingerbread said:


> It will get released, and because anticipation and expectations are running so high, everyone will complain that it doesn't live up to their dream. "I don't like the tone", "Not enough solo patches", etc.
> 
> Taking bets now.



I "merely" expect Alex to do what he's already done three or four times: Turn out a high-quality, polished product that's so easy to use and so reasonably priced, it sells itself. No posh marketing or limited-time offers necessary.

If it isn't perfect, I won't care. Because it will be very good.


----------



## RonOrchComp

muziksculp said:


> I think more than three mic positions is an overkill.



No way! If the pros use more than 3 mic positions, I want more than 3 mic positions


----------



## emilio_n

Gingerbread said:


> It will get released, and because anticipation and expectations are running so high, everyone will complain that it doesn't live up to their dream. "I don't like the tone", "Not enough solo patches", etc.
> 
> Taking bets now.


The perfect library doesn't exist but Cinematic Studio showed in the past their products have the perfect combination of quality, features and price. They don't need to sell their products like "the definitive thing" or "reinventing the VI". You just need to see the care and time that they take to polish the product before put in the market and how they don't feel rush with the press of everybody asking for the release


----------



## jaketanner

What are the thoughts on libraries that come out over the course of years...because by the time CSP (percussion) comes out, CSS will already be old...not useless old of course, but maybe technology/technique old? I am guessing that Alex has learned a lot since CSS...maybe we will see an upgraded version? But not that there's anything wrong with is...just wish there was a vibrato crossfade of course, and maybe some other enhancements to workflow.


----------



## emilio_n

jaketanner said:


> What are the thoughts on libraries that come out over the course of years...because by the time CSP (percussion) comes out, CSS will already be old...not useless old of course, but maybe technology/technique old? I am guessing that Alex has learned a lot since CSS...maybe we will see an upgraded version? But not that there's anything wrong with it...just wish there was a vibrato crossfade of course, and maybe some other enhancements to workflow.


I think yes, but not until all the collection is finished. I prefer this than new libraries. I think paid updates if have new funtionallities is a win-win for everybody. Said that, with this development pace, we will need to wait decades!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

lgmcben said:


> What make this series so popular amongst professionals?
> 
> I mean, I'm a hobbyist. I still don't have any lib that provide separate section patches. After some research I'm pretty much set for Cinematic Studio Series. It's not too large (30gb), not too expensive (compared to those heavyweight like Berlin or BBC). I still haven't bought any of this though, saving up money for it.
> 
> For me working on a laptop, those library of 200-300GB is ridiculous. But for professionals isn't stuff like Berlin or BBC more preferable?



Soundwise, CS Series truly does not have to shy away from the comparisons. Let's not forget that especially for pros, speed and ease of workflow are also a big factor. CS Series kind of hits the sweet spot - the sound is really good and the libraries are just sturdy, reliable, no nonsense. All the essential stuff is there without any of the fluff. It loads fast, it doesn't bug around, you set them up real quickly and you're getting quick results.


----------



## Bluemount Score

purple said:


> Cinematic studio bump time


Why?


----------



## eli0s

jaketanner said:


> just wish there was a vibrato crossfade


There is a vibrato crossfade in CSS, by default is CC2. The are no true legato transitions with out vibrato though.


----------



## I like music

eli0s said:


> There is a vibrato crossfade in CSS, by default is CC2. The are no true legato transitions with out vibrato though.



I can't remember if that sampled legato disappears at a 0 value or something higher? Meaning can you can still have a _low_ vibrato going on _and_ the different transitions?


----------



## eli0s

Anything with CC2≥8 value will trigger the true legato transitions, which inherently have a lot of vibrato backed in. However, at this low CC2 values, as the sound progresses when you hold the note down, the sound crossfades to a non vibrato sound quite organically after a second or two. To my ears, the vibrato becomes audible again with values above 30 or so.
Any transition with CC2 values of 7 or below will trigger the artificial legato.


----------



## I like music

eli0s said:


> Anything with CC2≥8 value will trigger the true legato transitions, which inherently have a lot of vibrato backed in. However, at this low CC2 values, as the sound progresses when you hold the note down, the sound crossfades to a non vibrato sound quite organically after a second or two. To my ears, the vibrato becomes audible again with values above 30 or so.
> Any transition with CC2 values of 7 or below will trigger the artificial legato.



Thank you, that's really helpful!


----------



## eli0s

You are welcome!


----------



## Michael Stibor

Robo Rivard said:


> My worry is with CSP (Cinematic Studio Percussion). People already own quite a lot of percussion libraries, and I wonder what CSP will offer that other developpers don't... They will have to stick out from the crowd. I guess they will concentrate on chromatic percussions to make a difference.


A lot can happen in the six years before that comes out.


----------



## pawelmorytko

mikefrommontreal said:


> A lot can happen in the six years before that comes out.


I can't wait till Alex starts his next project, the Cinematic Symphonic Series, coming 2030


----------



## jaketanner

eli0s said:


> There is a vibrato crossfade in CSS, by default is CC2. The are no true legato transitions with out vibrato though.


That is only on off crossfade...it's not a crossfade in intensity though...or am I mistaken?


----------



## Eptesicus

I would love it if they released some preliminary information at this stage.

Mainly i would like to know what the orchestrations/patches will be. Being only a few months away, they must know this by know.

Will it just be ensembles? Just 1 of each instrument? A mixture of solos and ensembles?

Personally I'm really hoping for solos (similar to BWW) so something like this:

Piccolo
Flute 1
Flute 2
Cor Anglais
Oboe 1
Oboe 2
Clarinet 1
Clarinet 2
Bassoon 1
Bassoon 2
Contra


----------



## axb312

@Alex W Give the people something ?


----------



## Brian Nowak

Eptesicus said:


> I would love it if they released some preliminary information at this stage.
> 
> Mainly i would like to know what the orchestrations/patches will be. Being only a few months away, they must know this by know.
> 
> Will it just be ensembles? Just 1 of each instrument? A mixture of solos and ensembles?
> 
> Personally I'm really hoping for solos (similar to BWW) so something like this:
> 
> Piccolo
> Flute 1
> Flute 2
> Cor Anglais
> Oboe 1
> Oboe 2
> Clarinet 1
> Clarinet 2
> Bassoon 1
> Bassoon 2
> Contra



If it doesn't include great a2 patches I won't be getting it. I've been considering grabbing SSW if it goes on sale in order to compliment Revive. But specifically, I'd like it so I can have some good a2 patches. 

I would be surprised if it wasn't a2 and a soloist in each woodwind family, however.


----------



## Symfoniq

I'm _pretty sure_ that Alex already stated somewhere that CSW will be the largest library yet in terms of instruments.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Symfoniq said:


> I'm _pretty sure_ that Alex already stated somewhere that CSW will be the largest library yet in terms of instruments.


Yes, but still not large enough to be seen in the distant future

- Me, an intellectual


----------



## axb312

Does anyone have any examples of woodwinds recorded at Trackdown?


----------



## Michael Stibor

Bluemount Score said:


> Yes, but still not large enough to be seen in the distant future
> 
> - Me, an intellectual


Touché


----------



## Brian Nowak

Symfoniq said:


> I'm _pretty sure_ that Alex already stated somewhere that CSW will be the largest library yet in terms of instruments.



He did. But... wouldn't that be true even if there were just soloists and a2 patches, given the variety of woodwinds in a standard setup?


----------



## Eptesicus

Brian Nowak said:


> He did. But... wouldn't that be true even if there were just soloists and a2 patches, given the variety of woodwinds in a standard setup?



i guess it depends.

If he just does piccolo, flutes, oboes, clarinets and bassoons then solo and ensembles of them wouldnt make it any bigger than the brass library. 

I guess it depends on how expansive it is and whether alto flute, bass clarinet, cor anglais, contra is included etc.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Eptesicus said:


> i guess it depends.
> 
> If he just does piccolo, flutes, oboes, clarinets and bassoons then solo and ensembles of them wouldnt make it any bigger than the brass library.
> 
> I guess it depends on how expansive it is and whether alto flute, bass clarinet, cor anglais, contra is included etc.


I'm pretty sure it was already stated that Alto Flute was being recorded, but I can't remember how far back in the thread


----------



## Brian Nowak

Eptesicus said:


> i guess it depends.
> 
> If he just does piccolo, flutes, oboes, clarinets and bassoons then solo and ensembles of them wouldnt make it any bigger than the brass library.
> 
> I guess it depends on how expansive it is and whether alto flute, bass clarinet, cor anglais, contra is included etc.



I was assuming English horn as a guarantee. But I also seem to recall he was talking about content as well - like it's the largest sample content they've done so far. We will eventually (?) see.


----------



## eli0s

jaketanner said:


> That is only on off crossfade...it's not a crossfade in intensity though...or am I mistaken?


I think you are referring the way vibrato works in Cinematic Studio _Solo_ Strings (CSSS). In the ensemble strings (CSS) the vibrato behaves as said before, with no real legato transitions in non vibrato.
In contrast, CSSS does have real legato transitions with both vibrato and non vibrato playing. And yes, it is something like an on/off crossfade. When the vibrato is on, the legato is slurred, when the vibrato is off, the legato is with a bow change (so it sounds detache).


----------



## Matheus Wittmann

Sometimes I just click on the grayed link "Woodwinds" in Cinematic Studios site, expecting it to enter.


----------



## Vangance

emilio_n said:


> The perfect library doesn't exist but Cinematic Studio showed in the past their products have the perfect combination of quality, features and price. They don't need to sell their products like "the definitive thing" or "reinventing the VI". You just need to see the care and time that they take to polish the product before put in the market and how they don't feel rush with the press of everybody asking for the release


Let's not go too overboard. A significant amount of users are still waiting for a fix for the infuriating hanging notes problem. I have several libraries and no other has this problem. A fix was promised some time ago. I'm a great believer in making sure what's already out there is working correctly before moving on to something else! The expectations of CSW seem highly likely to exceed what the product will actually deliver in reality judging by the fever of excitement generated here. 
If it's on a par with Berlin Woods then who could complain....


----------



## Robert_G

Vangance said:


> Let's not go too overboard. A significant amount of users are still waiting for a fix for the infuriating hanging notes problem. I have several libraries and no other has this problem. A fix was promised some time ago. I'm a great believer in making sure what's already out there is working correctly before moving on to something else! The expectations of CSW seem highly likely to exceed what the product will actually deliver in reality judging by the fever of excitement generated here.
> If it's on a par with Berlin Woods then who could complain....


Weird....100s of hours into it...only once ever had a hanging note


----------



## Brian Nowak

Robert_G said:


> Weird....100s of hours into it...only once ever had a hanging note



In my case, it was more a problem when I had MIDI chase on. Same with CSS. Once I removed any chase settings it has decreased to a nearly nonexistent problem.

With chase settings on it was damn near every time I stopped play. If I understand correctly it is a more common problem in Logic.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

The only issue I've had with CSB or CSS is some kind of memory leak problem where the project got continuously laggy and unusable until I re-opened the project. Contacted Alex and he said he had experienced it himself but I haven't had the issue since.


----------



## purple

RonOrchComp said:


> No way! If the pros use more than 3 mic positions, I want more than 3 mic positions


Honestly, beyond 3 or 4 mics, anything else is just gonna sound the same as one of the main 3. There may be subtle differences when you do an A/B comparison, but in the context of a mix, forget about it! I'd rather have the library load fast and take up less space than have 6 different ambient stereo pairs in the balcony of the hall they recorded in.


----------



## purple

Symfoniq said:


> So evil.


Hey, I didn't start it this time!


----------



## ChristianM

Symfoniq said:


> I'm _pretty sure_ that Alex already stated somewhere that CSW will be the largest library yet in terms of instruments.


That would be amazing. Brass are the basic instruments, nothing more.


----------



## Go To 11

Matheus Wittmann said:


> Sometimes I just click on the grayed link "Woodwinds" in Cinematic Studios site, expecting it to enter.


I understand you. On that note, looks like CS2 has recently been added to the site. https://cinematicstudioseries.com/cs2/


----------



## pawelmorytko

Brian Nowak said:


> With chase settings on it was damn near every time I stopped play. If I understand correctly it is a more common problem in Logic.


Yep, having a few issues on Logic, not sure if they are Logic specific though:

- Like you said, hanging notes when stopping play back
- When playing back a legato phrase, it will often play the transition from the last note to the first as you stop and start again, making sure sustain pedal is off before the first note seems to fix it though
- Weird bug with key switches, mainly the legato on/off and repetition overlay on/off not triggering the first time they are pressed, seems a bit random after spamming the key a few times


----------



## Bluemount Score

Robert_G said:


> Weird....100s of hours into it...only once ever had a hanging note


If at all. Nothing I would see as one of the few downsides I have with the CS series, personally.

20 pages about a library that isn't even released yet, not bad


----------



## Bluemount Score

Go To 11 said:


> I understand you. On that note, looks like CS2 has recently been added to the site. https://cinematicstudioseries.com/cs2/


I thought I was alone, senseless clicking on that Woodwind tab. But yea, the website got updated recently... and the piano has the solo strings description added currently


----------



## purple

Bluemount Score said:


> If at all. Nothing I would see as one of the few downsides I have with the CS series, personally.
> 
> 20 pages about a library that isn't even released yet, not bad


Well it seems to have turned into a CS worship thread, which I don't mind.


----------



## cqd

He could get a move on though..


----------



## jamwerks

Imo in sample-land, a3 patches are more useful than a2 patches


----------



## RonOrchComp

purple said:


> Honestly, beyond 3 or 4 mics, anything else is just gonna sound the same as one of the main 3.



Wrong. All you need do is get Mike Verta's "The Race" class, where you get all of the mic positions.


----------



## Batrawi

any news about CS Woo...


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

What color will this woodwind series look like? Yellow?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> What color will this woodwind series look like? Yellow?


Risky discussion, but I'm used to BLUE woodwinds in my template. Because it's air and I consider air as blue. Regarding CSW - could be yellow, even though brass should have been yellow in my head.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Bluemount Score said:


> I consider air as blue.


I would have guessed you'd consider mountains blue. Which is a hazard for airplanes, when they camouflage with the sky.


----------



## purple

I think woodwinds will be green and percussion gold.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I would have guessed you'd consider mountains blue.


Touché


----------



## Robo Rivard

Which one will come out first: CSW or 8DIO Century Woodwinds? 

(I'll get them both for sure)


----------



## filipjonathan

Bluemount Score said:


> even though brass should have been yellow in my head


BRASS IS YELLOW IN MY HEAD AS WELL!! WHAT IS THIS SORCERY??!!!!


----------



## Anders Wall

filipjonathan said:


> BRASS IS YELLOW IN MY HEAD AS WELL!! WHAT IS THIS SORCERY??!!!!


The colour of the instruments?
That is, unless your trombone is red.
Sorry for the bump.
Tada,
/Anders


----------



## RonOrchComp

Anders Wall said:


> The colour of the instruments?
> That is, unless your trombone is red.


----------



## RonOrchComp

IMO - 

Brass is gold
Woods are silver
Strings are brown (or wood color)
Percussion is.... well.... I haven't quite figured out percussion should be yet


----------



## Anders Wall

RonOrchComp said:


>


I should have written “red as Nils’s are”...

/A


----------



## Anders Wall

RonOrchComp said:


> Percussion is.... well.... I haven't quite figured out percussion should be yet


The colour of dreams?
/Anders
Edit I use different for tuned/wood and metal.
Harp and Piano also gets different colours.


----------



## Robert_G

Robo Rivard said:


> Which one will come out first: CSW or 8DIO Century Woodwinds?
> 
> (I'll get them both for sure)








8Dio Century Series Woodwinds


So, I've been getting disgruntled with CSW taking longer and longer each time someone asks, so I'm thinking why don't I see if 8dio is closer along and I'll just buy the whole Century Series. So I asked the chat guy point blank, and even though I didn't like his answer, I do appreciate his...




vi-control.net


----------



## Matheus Wittmann

What are we expecting? Something around $399?


----------



## Eptesicus

Matheus Wittmann said:


> What are we expecting? Something around $399?



Well i would hope so. I reckon it will be the same as brass and strings - $399 and $279 for those with one of the other libraries. Dont see any reason for them to break with that pricing model.


----------



## Matheus Wittmann

Eptesicus said:


> Well i would hope so. I reckon it will be the same as brass and strings - $399 and $279 for those with one of the other libraries. Dont see any reason for them to break with that pricing model.


That would be amazing. I’m in that moment that I don’t know if I still wait and hope for CSW or I use my savings to buy CinePerc. I only need to buy perc and woodwinds 😪


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Matheus Wittmann said:


> That would be amazing. I’m in that moment that I don’t know if I still wait and hope for CSW or I use my savings to buy CinePerc. I only need to buy perc and woodwinds 😪


I was the same but ended up succumbing to the CinePerc sale. So I'll have to make do with Cinewinds Core for now lol


----------



## Eptesicus

Matheus Wittmann said:


> That would be amazing. I’m in that moment that I don’t know if I still wait and hope for CSW or I use my savings to buy CinePerc. I only need to buy perc and woodwinds 😪



Ha, same. Im sorted for strings and brass but need winds and perc.

Decided to skip the Cinesamples sale and wait for CSW and maybe a sale on True Strike.


----------



## Giscard Rasquin

Eptesicus said:


> Ha, same. Im sorted for strings and brass but need winds and perc.
> 
> Decided to skip the Cinesamples sale and wait for CSW and maybe a sale on True Strike.



I’ve been told a couple of days ago that there won’t be any in the foreseeable future


----------



## axb312

GuitarG said:


> I’ve been told a couple of days ago that there won’t be any in the foreseeable future



Any what?


----------



## Eptesicus

GuitarG said:


> I’ve been told a couple of days ago that there won’t be any in the foreseeable future



Oh , thats a shame.

Guess they don't want my money


----------



## Giscard Rasquin

axb312 said:


> Any what?


Sale on True Strike, as Eptesicus said he was waiting for that


----------



## Abdulrahman

rottoy said:


> I'm just hoping Alex will sample a really great oboist.
> Apart from the Berlin Woodwinds Exp B oboe and the 8Dio Claire Oboe,
> there isn't a single sampled oboe that I've taken a liking to.


The Oboe from OT is absolutely amazing! The emotions in it are on a level I've never heard before!
But I'm getting used to it and need something else to quench my thirst.


----------



## Robert_G

Abdulrahman said:


> The Oboe from OT is absolutely amazing! The emotions in it are on a level I've never heard before!
> But I'm getting used to it and need something else to quench my thirst.


Lumina oboe is pretty nice. Not a lot for articulations, but full of life.


----------



## Abdulrahman

Robert_G said:


> Lumina oboe is pretty nice. Not a lot for articulations, but full of life.


As far as articulation goes, I have the full list. I only need the legato.


----------



## Robert_G

Abdulrahman said:


> As far as articulation goes, I have the full list. I only need the legato.



Then Lumina Oboe is a good addition for you


----------



## Abdulrahman

Robert_G said:


> Then Lumina Oboe is a good addition for you


Thank you!
Someone else mentioned the Oboe from 8dio as well.


----------



## constaneum

Abdulrahman said:


> Thank you!
> Someone else mentioned the Oboe from 8dio as well.



i owned both 8dioboe and claire oboe. I didn't quite like them though. they're left aside, collecting dust instead.


----------



## muziksculp




----------



## axb312

Anyone have examples of woodwinds playing/ recorded at Trackdown?


----------



## Kubler

I love how out of frustration about waiting the thread is turning into a general woodwinds topic (a)


----------



## Abdulrahman

muziksculp said:


>



OMG is this a real instrument or what?!


----------



## Abdulrahman

Kubler said:


> I love how out of frustration about waiting the thread is turning into a general woodwinds topic (a)


Well... technically, we're still on the topic which is "Woodwinds" haha.


----------



## Architekton

I still havent found oboe that I am fully satisfied with so, yes, I hope CSW will have quality one


----------



## Abdulrahman

I just want to update you guys about CSW.

The release was delayed due to extra recordings. We could expect a mid-year launch, but now with the outbreak, things may change. On the bright side, CS customers would still get discount codes just like what happened when they released CSB.

As for the people who are worrying about the Oboe, I've already addressed the issue to them. They are very much satisfied with the recording and we may get our hands on the Oboe we all dreamed of.

I hope my message brightened your day.

Stay safe and healthy everyone!

Abdulrahman

P.S. I posted this score two days ago with the London strings


----------



## constaneum

Abdulrahman said:


> I just want to update you guys about CSW.
> 
> The release was delayed due to extra recordings. We could expect a mid-year launch, but now with the outbreak, things may change. On the bright side, CS customers would still get discount codes just like what happened when they released CSB.
> 
> As for the people who are worrying about the Oboe, I've already addressed the issue to them. They are very much satisfied with the recording and we may get our hands on the Oboe we all dreamed of.
> 
> I hope my message brightened your day.
> 
> Stay safe and healthy everyone!
> 
> Abdulrahman
> 
> P.S. I posted this score two days ago with the London strings



guess either Q3 or Q4 2020 then. ehhe


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

axb312 said:


> Anyone have examples of woodwinds playing/ recorded at Trackdown?



"Open Season: Scared Silly" was recording scores in 2015 at Trackdown


You can find more by looking at the entire list of projects on the site: https://www.trackdown.com.au/
If you have time to look, we can all together probably find more different examples of woodwinds


----------



## Abdulrahman

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> "Open Season: Scared Silly" was recording scores in 2015 at Trackdown
> 
> 
> You can find more by looking at the entire list of projects on the site: https://www.trackdown.com.au/
> If you have time to look, we can all together probably find more different examples of woodwinds



Thanks for sharing. They do sound really nice!
But if my ears are not mistaking, the room seems not that large. I feel like it's more dryer than CineCamples, Orchestral Tools and Spitfire Audio. We can all tell that from the sound of CSS. But that doesn't mean I don't like it. On the contrary, it has more of that "scoring studio" feel to it which is what I love about it. I think the percussion will sound awesome in this room! I'm curious to know if they ever going to release a Harp library and Choir?


----------



## Scamper

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> "Open Season: Scared Silly" was recording scores in 2015 at Trackdown



Is it just me or do CSS and CSB have a noticeably different sound compared to this recording? 
Not sure, if it's the processing on the soundtrack or a matter of recording setup, but while this sounds very nice, I'm not sure, if it gives a good impression of the upcoming libraries.


----------



## purple

Well I think it's that there's so many variables in how the recordings will sound. Mic choices, Micing techniques, how everyone is sat in the room, processing, etc. Can also be the individual players.


----------



## Brian Nowak

Scamper said:


> Is it just me or do CSS and CSB have a noticeably different sound compared to this recording?
> Not sure, if it's the processing on the soundtrack or a matter of recording setup, but while this sounds very nice, I'm not sure, if it gives a good impression of the upcoming libraries.



To me it just sounds like the woodwinds are really close mic'ed.


----------



## Robert_G

It would still be nice if Alex would let us know what kind impact covid19 is having on production.


----------



## Brian Nowak

Robert_G said:


> It would still be nice if Alex would let us know what kind impact covid19 is having on production.



Man, I think it's safe to assume EVERYTHING is being impacted. Everything has slowed down. 

I feel even worse for people that were in the middle of recording sample projects of large ensembles. Nobody knows when ensembles will resume. 

So for now we just have to hang tight because there's too many unknowns regarding the issue.


----------



## Abdulrahman

Scamper said:


> Is it just me or do CSS and CSB have a noticeably different sound compared to this recording?
> Not sure, if it's the processing on the soundtrack or a matter of recording setup, but while this sounds very nice, I'm not sure, if it gives a good impression of the upcoming libraries.


Yeah, I think I agree with you there.
But like most of the sample library companies, when it comes to a real live recording, many factors affect how the sound changes and that includes the human expression (regardless if they are the same musicians or not), mics setup (recording engineer), players setup and of course, the mix engineer.


----------



## Abdulrahman

Robert_G said:


> It would still be nice if Alex would let us know what kind impact covid19 is having on production.


But I've already given you an update about it. My comment is above. Don't forget that they have been affected not only by the virus, but also by the bushfires. That was what slowed them down.


----------



## Abdulrahman

Brian Nowak said:


> Man, I think it's safe to assume EVERYTHING is being impacted. Everything has slowed down.
> 
> I feel even worse for people that were in the middle of recording sample projects of large ensembles. Nobody knows when ensembles will resume.
> 
> So for now we just have to hang tight because there's too many unknowns regarding the issue.


I am one of those people who got affected. I was supposed to record with 18 players from Brass and Woodwind in Budapest ;(


----------



## Robert_G

Abdulrahman said:


> But I've already given you an update about it. My comment is above. Don't forget that they have been affected not only by the virus, but also by the bushfires. That was what slowed them down.



I did read your post, but I dont rememember you saying what your relationship with Alex or CS is....you could have true 1st hand info, but lots of people claim they know exactly what is going on but really dont know anything.

Im not saying thats the case with you but I dont know and/or you havent said how you came into first hand info on this subject.


----------



## Abdulrahman

Robert_G said:


> I did read your post, but I dont rememember you saying what your relationship with Alex or CS is....you could have true 1st hand info, but lots of people claim they know exactly what is going on but really dont know anything.
> 
> Im not saying thats the case with you but I dont know and/or you havent said how you came into first hand info on this subject.


No worries, my man! I'm not here to spread false rumors. I've been in touch with them. I even suggested that they consider working on a Harp and Choir library to complete the orchestral lineup.


----------



## Rob Elliott

I've said it before I'll say it again. The wait will be worth it.


----------



## Robert_G

Abdulrahman said:


> No worries, my man! I'm not here to spread false rumors. I've been in touch with them. I even suggested that they consider working on a Harp and Choir library to complete the orchestral lineup.


Awesome. If you spoke with him directly, then that is good info. 
Thank you.


----------



## cqd

I was totally expecting them to fire the harp into the percussion library to be sound..


----------



## Illico

Abdulrahman said:


> ... many factors affect how the sound changes and that includes the human expression (regardless if they are the same musicians or not), mics setup (recording engineer), players setup and of course, the mix engineer.



This library will be marked by History. Hope in good way.


----------



## Nemoy

A harp and choir library from them would be a dream come true! Now just patiently waiting for the Woodwinds to get announced like everyone else here.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Officials warn that realistically we might not be seeing a CSW on the market for another 12 to 18 months. There's just a lot of rigorous testing that needs to be done to determine the efficacy, and it'll need approval from Native Instruments before it can be released as 100% stable for Kontakt Player.


----------



## lgmcben

He can put pre-order page up with no demo. Maybe someone will pre-order and he can use the money to fund the development during this harsh times. 😷


----------



## purple

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Officials warn that realistically we might not be seeing a CSW on the market for another 12 to 18 months. There's just a lot of rigorous testing that needs to be done to determine the efficacy, and it'll need approval from Native Instruments before it can be released as 100% stable for Kontakt Player.


I wouldn't mind doing some testing...


----------



## pawelmorytko

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Officials warn that realistically we might not be seeing a CSW on the market for another 12 to 18 months. There's just a lot of rigorous testing that needs to be done to determine the efficacy, and it'll need approval from Native Instruments before it can be released as 100% stable for Kontakt Player.


Is this for real? I really hope not...

Also, sorry to bump the thread again, but I could really use some winds on some projects, do you think there's any point to getting Berlin Soloists Expansion with CSW potentially around the corner, or will it end up being collecting dust once CSW comes out?


----------



## N.Caffrey

pawelmorytko said:


> Is this for real? I really hope not...
> 
> Also, sorry to bump the thread again, but I could really use some winds on some projects, do you think there's any point to getting Berlin Soloists Expansion with CSW potentially around the corner, or will it end up being collecting dust once CSW comes out?



In my opinion they have both their purposes. Not 100% sure, but CSW could be considered like the main BWW library, while the soloist are different, actually some of the best samples for woodwinds, haven't heard anything that can achieve that realism so far (specially the oboe).


----------



## constaneum

N.Caffrey said:


> In my opinion they have both their purposes. Not 100% sure, but CSW could be considered like the main BWW library, while the soloist are different, actually some of the best samples for woodwinds, haven't heard anything that can achieve that realism so far (specially the oboe).



the oboe and english horn are very well done. the rest a bit so so.


----------



## Fry777

pawelmorytko said:


> Is this for real? I really hope not...
> 
> Also, sorry to bump the thread again, but I could really use some winds on some projects, do you think there's any point to getting Berlin Soloists Expansion with CSW potentially around the corner, or will it end up being collecting dust once CSW comes out?



I'm fairly sure @Land of Missing Parts is making a joke matching the development of a COVID vaccine, and these words do not come from Alex's team. And now that I explained the joke I ruined it...
You're welcome @Land of Missing Parts


----------



## N.Caffrey

constaneum said:


> the oboe and english horn are very well done. the rest a bit so so.



I thought the bass clarinet was alright too, from what I heard. Not a huge fan of the flute though.


----------



## constaneum

N.Caffrey said:


> I thought the bass clarinet was alright too, from what I heard. Not a huge fan of the flute though.



yes. the solo flute from exp b....i nickname it depressing flute. For really solo and expressive line, I can't recommend this enough, Auddict's Solo Flute. It's the only flute which i'll feature in expose context. It's very beautiful sounding. I really hope CSW will nail it.


----------



## N.Caffrey

Bump


----------



## Eptesicus

N.Caffrey said:


> Bump


----------



## rottoy

N.Caffrey said:


> Bump


----------



## ProfoundSilence

N.Caffrey said:


> Bump


that's a good way to he found days later washed up on shore


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

We could bridge the time by playing stupid games. Forget all your music and sample libraries knowledge and read library names like an uninitiated person.

Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.

What the hell is that?

Or even better: Fluid Shorts. Yikes, that sounds nasty.
Berlin Strings First Chairs. Do I get these in the furniture department?
VSL Heckelphone. What's that - maybe a type of bullhorn which I can use to disrupt standup comedians more effectively?
Jaeger - do I need to show my ID?


----------



## Eptesicus

I would genuinely love to know if their is an update/whether CSW is imminent though.


----------



## lgmcben

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> We could bridge the time by playing stupid games. Forget all your music and sample libraries knowledge and read library names like an uninitiated person.
> 
> Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.
> 
> What the hell is that?
> 
> Or even better: Fluid Shorts. Yikes, that sounds nasty.
> Berlin Strings First Chairs. Do I get these in the furniture department?
> VSL Heckelphone. What's that - maybe a type of bullhorn which I can use to disrupt standup comedians more effectively?
> Jaeger - do I need to show my ID?


How do you explain to your wife when you use credit card to pay for Damage.


----------



## Simon Schrenk

"What is an Omnisphere? Are you planning to leave the planet?"


----------



## Fry777

lgmcben said:


> How do you explain to your wife when you use credit card to pay for Damage.



I guess that would be easier than to explain you just paid 299 for "ASS"


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

In my opinion, this color suits him.


----------



## Eptesicus

Muted flute and flute rips ay..


----------



## Grizzlymv

I especially love the flute motif in the background


----------



## RogiervG

i also like the french horn ehm well.. ehm.. "french bassoon" in the right handside of the background


----------



## Bluemount Score

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> In my opinion, this color suits him.


For a second, I thought this was real.
I got excited, but the disappointment afterwards was bigger.


----------



## purple

every time this thread gets bumped the release date moves back a month


----------



## RogiervG

i know from a conversation with them about two possible release dates.. but am not allowed to say them here...


----------



## cqd

RogiervG said:


> i know from a conversation with them about two possible release dates.. but am not allowed to say them here...



You can't just do that..


----------



## RogiervG

i just did...

but ok... you didn't have it from me... but.......




Spoiler: here are the dates...



it's
xx-xx-2020
and 
xx-xx-2020

but hush hush....


----------



## cqd

Probably mid 2021 so..


----------



## RogiervG

cqd said:


> Probably mid 2021 so..



all previous jokes aside, i did had a conversation with them about how things are getting along
They still intent to release it in 2020, aiming for the summer period (jul/aug/sept).. but it might, put back, to late of 2020 (nov-dec). It's unsure how the covid-19 situation evolves and disrupts the developement schedule, because Australia is still under a lockdown.

a side remark i got was: Alex, as a perfectionist, is currently not fully satisfied with the results and is still working on it for more perfection.


----------



## rottoy

If I don't get a "Flautando" articulation on the Solo Flute, I'm going to spit fire!


----------



## STec

RogiervG said:


> side remark i got was: Alex, as a perfectionist, is currently not fully satisfied with the results and is still working on it for more perfection.



He's clearly a perfectionist


----------



## Robo Rivard

Hoping for Century Woodwinds too (I will get both for sure).


----------



## Robert_G

Robo Rivard said:


> Hoping for Century Woodwinds too (I will get both for sure).



Nope






8Dio Century Series Woodwinds


So, I've been getting disgruntled with CSW taking longer and longer each time someone asks, so I'm thinking why don't I see if 8dio is closer along and I'll just buy the whole Century Series. So I asked the chat guy point blank, and even though I didn't like his answer, I do appreciate his...




vi-control.net


----------



## Robo Rivard

Robert_G said:


> Nope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8Dio Century Series Woodwinds
> 
> 
> So, I've been getting disgruntled with CSW taking longer and longer each time someone asks, so I'm thinking why don't I see if 8dio is closer along and I'll just buy the whole Century Series. So I asked the chat guy point blank, and even though I didn't like his answer, I do appreciate his...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


That is supposed to be a fake news.


----------



## Robert_G

Robo Rivard said:


> That is supposed to be a fake news.



I wish it was too.


----------



## purple

rottoy said:


> If I don't get a "Flautando" articulation on the Solo Flute, I'm going to spit fire!


I really want to see super sul tasto bassoon


----------



## purple

You know, I've been seeing this in my notifications all day, and still managed to get excited when I saw the thread at the top of the SAMPLE TALK forum.


----------



## N.Caffrey

RogiervG said:


> all previous jokes aside, i did had a conversation with them about how things are getting along
> They still intent to release it in 2020, aiming for the summer period (jul/aug/sept).. but it might, put back, to late of 2020 (nov-dec). It's unsure how the covid-19 situation evolves and disrupts the developement schedule, because Australia is still under a lockdown.
> 
> a side remark i got was: Alex, as a perfectionist, is currently not fully satisfied with the results and is still working on it for more perfection.



Nov-Dec? Man, I thought we would have seen it next month


----------



## Robo Rivard

Anytime in 2020 will be fine I guess. Incomes are low these days.


----------



## Eptesicus

N.Caffrey said:


> Nov-Dec? Man, I thought we would have seen it next month



Me too.

It was a few months away... a few months ago.

Every update puts it further and further back.

Shame.

If it means it is a fantastic product in the end though, then it will be worth the wait.


----------



## Eptesicus

RogiervG said:


> all previous jokes aside, i did had a conversation with them about how things are getting along
> They still intent to release it in 2020, aiming for the summer period (jul/aug/sept).. but it might, put back, to late of 2020 (nov-dec). It's unsure how the covid-19 situation evolves and disrupts the developement schedule, because Australia is still under a lockdown.
> 
> a side remark i got was: Alex, as a perfectionist, is currently not fully satisfied with the results and is still working on it for more perfection.



I guess everyone's situation is different but i would have thought the final editing of a sample library is literally the perfect work to be doing in lockdown and would likely get done quicker baring any personal/health/family complications.

I guess if they need to re-record stuff then that would be a big issue.


----------



## purple

Eptesicus said:


> I guess everyone's situation is different but i would have thought the final editing of a sample library is literally the perfect work to be doing in lockdown and would likely get done quicker baring any personal/health/family complications.
> 
> I guess if they need to re-record stuff then that would be a big issue.


I would agree, but who knows exactly where they are in the process at this point. The very fact of not being in the same room with each other can slow down collaborative work like this. And that's assuming they aren't having their own complications or having to deal with family members' complications.


----------



## artomatic

I had an issue with NI with CSS needing authorization. Wrote support at Cinematic Studio Series. Alex wrote back that resolved my issue. 
I mentioned that I was very excited about the upcoming CSW!
He responded with this:

"... back to grinding away on the woodwinds - sounding better every day but still a few months off!"

So there's the update from Alex. So looking forward to this!


----------



## Eptesicus

artomatic said:


> I had an issue with NI with CSS needing authorization. Wrote support at Cinematic Studio Series. Alex wrote back that resolved my issue.
> I mentioned that I was very excited about the upcoming CSW!
> He responded with this:
> 
> "... back to grinding away on the woodwinds - sounding better every day but still a few months off!"
> 
> So there's the update from Alex. So looking forward to this!



A few months? Boo 

I have no doubt it will be very good though and worth the wait.


----------



## Robert_G

artomatic said:


> I had an issue with NI with CSS needing authorization. Wrote support at Cinematic Studio Series. Alex wrote back that resolved my issue.
> I mentioned that I was very excited about the upcoming CSW!
> He responded with this:
> 
> "... back to grinding away on the woodwinds - sounding better every day but still a few months off!"
> 
> So there's the update from Alex. So looking forward to this!



'A few' could mean as many as 4 or 5 months but probably less than 6. I think any earlier than September is a pipe dream.


----------



## purple

artomatic said:


> I had an issue with NI with CSS needing authorization. Wrote support at Cinematic Studio Series. Alex wrote back that resolved my issue.
> I mentioned that I was very excited about the upcoming CSW!
> He responded with this:
> 
> "... back to grinding away on the woodwinds - sounding better every day but still a few months off!"
> 
> So there's the update from Alex. So looking forward to this!


So we can officially move our projection date to.....
Some time in 2020


----------



## axb312

Anyone have any further updates on this? 

Apologies in advance for the heart attack...


----------



## rottoy




----------



## Patryk Scelina

axb312 said:


> Anyone have any further updates on this?
> 
> Apologies in advance for the heart attack...


Oh man. I just can't ...... wait any longer :D


----------



## José Herring




----------



## filipjonathan

axb312 said:


> Anyone have any further updates on this?
> 
> Apologies in advance for the heart attack...


I've been waiting for someone to comment ANYTHING 😂


----------



## Giscard Rasquin

filipjonathan said:


> I've been waiting for someone to comment ANYTHING 😂



Dammit, you beat me to comment #500 😂😂


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

We need Operation Warp Speed for CSW.


----------



## purple

Just finish one of the instruments and release it. Give us the oboe or something. Anything! I'll even pay full price for just the one!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

purple said:


> Just finish one of the instruments and release it. Give us the oboe or something. Anything! I'll even pay full price for just the one!


If this years is anything like the past three years, Orchestral Tools will have a Completion Days sale and you can snag Berlin Woodwinds Exp B. Last year it started June 13.


----------



## purple

Land of Missing Parts said:


> If this years is anything like the past three years, Orchestral Tools will have a Completion Days sale and you can snag Berlin Woodwinds Exp B. Last year it started June 13.


I was considering between that and a couple of westgate instruments for the short term... I might be going the berlin route if this is true. Frees up some money to spend on other much needed upgrades. I really only want oboe and english horn for my current project anyways, with clarinet as a bonus in a couple of tracks. The bassoons and concert flutes in EWHO and the various flutes I have in ERA II are good enough for me. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## José Herring

purple said:


> I was considering between that and a couple of westgate instruments for the short term... I might be going the berlin route if this is true. Frees up some money to spend on other much needed upgrades. I really only want oboe and english horn for my current project anyways, with clarinet as a bonus in a couple of tracks. The bassoons and concert flutes in EWHO and the various flutes I have in ERA II are good enough for me. Thanks for the tip!


I'm leaning towards SStWW. Any experience with those? They sound remarkable to me.


----------



## Robert_G

josejherring said:


> I'm leaning towards SStWW. Any experience with those? They sound remarkable to me.



I have the SStWW core. The one mic doesn't work in a mix. You'll have to go pro. With that said....a friend of mine recently got the VI series Woodwinds I and II from VSL. The SStWW IMHO have gone from fair to lifeless since using the VI series Woodwinds. There is no comparison.


----------



## jimjazzuk

Spoke to Alex and there's been a change of plan. He's seen a gap in the market and it's now a slide saxophone library.


----------



## José Herring

Robert_G said:


> I have the SStWW core. The one mic doesn't work in a mix. You'll have to go pro. With that said....a friend of mine recently got the VI series Woodwinds I and II from VSL. The SStWW IMHO have gone from fair to lifeless since using the VI series Woodwinds. There is no comparison.


Good to know. Thx.


----------



## filipjonathan

GuitarG said:


> Dammit, you beat me to comment #500 😂😂


Sorry 😅


----------



## Michael Stibor

What do you mean? It’s out already. I’ve been really enjoying it. You guys should try it.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Robert_G said:


> There is no comparison.


There is a comparison thread.





Library Comparison Thread (Audio Demos)


This is a thread for comparing and discussing different libraries. We started this topic in another thread and I thought I’d move it here to try and keep it a bit more organised. Want to do a comparison: Post a midi file of what you want to compare, and tell us what what libraries you would...




vi-control.net


----------



## Robert_G

Land of Missing Parts said:


> There is a comparison thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Library Comparison Thread (Audio Demos)
> 
> 
> This is a thread for comparing and discussing different libraries. We started this topic in another thread and I thought I’d move it here to try and keep it a bit more organised. Want to do a comparison: Post a midi file of what you want to compare, and tell us what what libraries you would...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



There may be a comparison 'thread', but no one is going to recommend SStWW over the VI series Woodwinds from VSL. You'd have to be tone deaf to do that.


----------



## cqd

Robert_G said:


> There may be a comparison 'thread', but no one is going to recommend SStWW over the VI series Woodwinds from VSL. You'd have to be tone deaf to do that.



Spitfire fanboys can get emotionally involved though..


----------



## Michael Stibor

Robert_G said:


> There may be a comparison 'thread', but no one is going to recommend SStWW over the VI series Woodwinds from VSL. You'd have to be tone deaf to do that.


I have the VSL Synchron winds and SStWW basic and while conceptually I like SStW, tone wise there is no comparison. Sadly. Because if they were just a bit stronger, my woodwind issues would be solved and I wouldn’t be so desperately holding on to the idea of CSW.


----------



## purple

josejherring said:


> I'm leaning towards SStWW. Any experience with those? They sound remarkable to me.


Eh. I've never found any of the spitfire instruments particularly exciting. They have this strange sterile character to them and the tone is typically harsh to my ears. The legato is in the best cases average but buggy and at worst just plain bad. 

I have always gotten the impression from their demos and walkthroughs that their (the developers') "ears" are very much baked into the sound of the libraries. I think this is why they are popular (lots of people people like that "sound") but I don't like it, so it's just not for me. That's also probably why so many people simply can't stand their libraries despite overwhelming popularity 

Berlin EXP B (and a lot of OT stuff really) is similar in that a lot of mojo is baked into the samples, but I quite like the sound of some of their collections and I think that particular style of mojo is much more idiomatic in the context of orchestral writing and gels with what I write best. That's my two cents.


----------



## Michael Stibor

purple said:


> Eh. I've never found any of the spitfire instruments particularly exciting. They have this strange sterile character to them and the tone is typically harsh to my ears. The legato is in the best cases average but buggy and at worst just plain bad.
> 
> I have always gotten the impression from their demos and walkthroughs that their (the developers') "ears" are very much baked into the sound of the libraries. I think this is why they are popular (lots of people people like that "sound") but I don't like it, so it's just not for me. That's also probably why so many people simply can't stand their libraries despite overwhelming popularity
> 
> Berlin EXP B (and a lot of OT stuff really) is similar in that a lot of mojo is baked into the samples, but I quite like the sound of some of their collections and I think that particular style of mojo is much more idiomatic in the context of orchestral writing and gels with what I write best. That's my two cents.


Can they be used in a more John Williams orchestral style? That’s what I’m looking for. So far VSL is the clear winner over Spitfire but still not quite there


----------



## purple

Michael Stibor said:


> Can they be used in a more John Williams orchestral style? That’s what I’m looking for. So far VSL is the clear winner over Spitfire but still not quite there


I mean any of these can be used in that style. It's a very subjective matter. I would go the berlin route over spitfire but I don't have either of their woodwinds so I can't really speak with much behind my words other than my opinions of demos. Don't have VSL either but what I have heard from them is workable.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Michael Stibor said:


> Can they be used in a more John Williams orchestral style? That’s what I’m looking for. So far VSL is the clear winner over Spitfire but still not quite there


Here's BWW Exp B (flute and oboe) playing some John Williams.


----------



## Robert_G

Michael Stibor said:


> I have the VSL Synchron winds and SStWW basic and while conceptually I like SStW, tone wise there is no comparison. Sadly. Because if they were just a bit stronger, my woodwind issues would be solved and I wouldn’t be so desperately holding on to the idea of CSW.
> So far VSL is the clear winner over Spitfire but still not quite there


I agree that VSL isn't perfect....but for samples they are close, with that said I would advise in not hoping that CSW is going to be the holy grail of Woodwinds. I hope they are....but in the world of samples.....the only holy grail so far...and this is just my opinion is the Genesis Children's Choir from Audiobro. There is nothing more or better I want from a children's choir. Unforunately I can't say that about any other instrument (CSB is close though). Will CSW change that opinion? I hope it does, but with an expected price point of $399 ($279 loyalty) when VSL (full lib) is right now on newly lowered prices for $1200....again....expectations need to met with caution.



purple said:


> Eh. I've never found any of the spitfire instruments particularly exciting. They have this strange sterile character to them and the tone is typically harsh to my ears. The legato is in the best cases average but buggy and at worst just plain bad.


+1. Sterile is probably the most fitting word for what I think of SStWW....especially after using VSL VI Series Woodwinds. Glad I only bought the core and on the spring wish list...but its still...$120 I'll never get back.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Robert_G said:


> I agree that VSL isn't perfect....but for samples they are close, with that said I would advise in not hoping that CSW is going to be the holy grail of Woodwinds. I hope they are....but in the world of samples.....the only holy grail so far...and this is just my opinion is the Genesis Children's Choir from Audiobro. There is nothing more or better I want from a children's choir. Unforunately I can't say that about any other instrument (CSB is close though). Will CSW change that opinion? I hope it does, but with an expected price point of $399 ($279 loyalty) when VSL (full lib) is right now on newly lowered prices for $1200....again....expectations need to met with caution.
> 
> 
> +1. Sterile is probably the most fitting word for what I think of SStWW....especially after using VSL VI Series Woodwinds. Glad I only bought the core and on the spring wish list...but its still...$120 I'll never get back.


I actual think VSL woodwinds are _very_ good. Incredibly underrated. I wish their shorts were a little shorter, but otherwise, no complaints. But I do like the mic positioning of the cinematic stuff, which is why I have high hopes. But I don’t think the company is infallible either. CSSS was a particular disappointment for me. But otherwise, I have a lot of confidence that what they put out is quality stuff.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Michael Stibor said:


> CSSS was a particular disappointment for me.


Really? I used it on my last track after having just acquired it and it is by far the best first chair/solo library I've heard (with the exception of dedicated expressive solo instruments like Virharmonic for that one purpose). It is the most consistent and competent library (especially regarding legato) on the market by a country mile.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Do the VSL full Woods come with extra dynamic layers? I bought the SE woodwinds last year and honestly don't like them at all. I find the Westgate stuff to be much better.


----------



## purple

I'm thinking we should just rename this thread to "woodwinds discussion with occasional false hope"


----------



## Michael Stibor

purple said:


> I'm thinking we should just rename this thread to "woodwinds discussion with occasional false hope"


It’s like CSW has become the_ Chinese Democracy_ of virtual instruments.


----------



## Architekton

Any news? :(


----------



## Bluemount Score

Architekton said:


> Any news? :(


haha, good one!

Middle of the year was last thing I heard, so maybe in a few mo... oh, it_ is_ middle of the year!


----------



## filipjonathan

Architekton said:


> Any news? :(


ooooh got me there 😅


----------



## Architekton

Bluemount Score said:


> haha, good one!
> 
> Middle of the year was last thing I heard, so maybe in a few mo... oh, it_ is_ middle of the year!



Yes, if I remember correctly it was a bit postponed due to corona virus situation to middle of the year, early summer and here we are, still nothing? :( And I am having major woodwinds "G.A.S."...


----------



## filipjonathan

Architekton said:


> And I am having major woodwinds "G.A.S."...


Tell me about it...


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Good that not only advertisement-crazy British developers get huge threads before hearing a note of their product.


----------



## filipjonathan

DarkestShadow said:


> Good that not only advertisement-crazy British developers get huge threads before hearing a note of their product.


I can only imagine what it's gonna be like when they finally announce it 😂


----------



## Bluemount Score

filipjonathan said:


> I can only imagine what it's gonna be like when they finally announce it 😂


I don't think they'll announce it, one day you'll wake up and it's there, just like that.


----------



## purple

Hey, guys! I've just noticed something. If you go to the cinematic studio series website, there's a greyed out "Woodwinds" tab. From this, we can be absolutely certain they are at least planning to release the woodwinds at some point!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

purple said:


> Hey, guys! I've just noticed something. If you go to the cinematic studio series website, there's a greyed out "Woodwinds" tab. From this, we can be absolutely certain they are at least planning to release the woodwinds at some point!


Where?


----------



## filipjonathan

purple said:


> Hey, guys! I've just noticed something. If you go to the cinematic studio series website, there's a greyed out "Woodwinds" tab. From this, we can be absolutely certain they are at least planning to release the woodwinds at some point!


WHAT??!!! IT CAN'T BE!!! IT'S COMING GUYS!!!!!!!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

filipjonathan said:


> I can only imagine what it's gonna be like when they finally announce it 😂


Figure they'll just drop it without notice!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

The greyed out sections on the site are the since years LOL.


----------



## Manaberry

I got John by email back in March. Expect it for late Q3 or Q4 due to the pandemic situation, but definitely this year.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Everyone will have bought and been disappointed by at least 2 other woodwind libraries by the time CSW releases


----------



## filipjonathan

Just realized this thread has been going for two years and the subject doesn't even exist yet for what we know 😂


----------



## purple

I'm going to buy a new woodwinds library soon, and the release of CSW will naturally be the day after that, given my luck. So when I do buy a new library, I'll let you guys know a day early about its release!


----------



## filipjonathan

purple said:


> I'm going to buy a new woodwinds library soon, and the release of CSW will naturally be the day after that, given my luck. So when I do buy a new library, I'll let you guys know a day early about its release!


Please do!


----------



## cqd

It'll surely come out within a week of the hollywood orchestra opus too..just to piss me off..


----------



## Peter Wayne

Please ONLY POST IF YOU HAVE ACTUAL NEWS! Stop getting all our hopes up every few weeks by asking "when will it be released" because NO one knows, not even the developer. LOL

/rant btw, of course it's an instant buy and we are all waiting, just be patient . It will be worth the wait . And please stop posting in this thread, it's torture.


----------



## jaketanner

Peter Wayne said:


> of course it's an instant buy and we are all waiting, just be patient . It will be worth the wait


I think that expectations are SO HIGH, that Alex is probably afraid to release it...it's been done for about a year and half now, but because of the hype, he's hesitant  LMFAO!! Imagine if that's the case?


----------



## purple

jaketanner said:


> I think that expectations are SO HIGH, that Alex is probably afraid to release it...it's been done for about a year and half now, but because of the hype, he's hesitant  LMFAO!! Imagine if that's the case?


The samples have been recorded, edited, and programmed in since last november. They've been spending the last several months arguing over what color to make the UI.


----------



## YaniDee

jaketanner said:


> LMFAO


Anyone have the time to spell this out? I did a search, and got:
_"LMFAO_ is an American electronic dance music duo consisting of uncle Redfoo and nephew SkyBlu"


----------



## jaketanner

purple said:


> The samples have been recorded, edited, and programmed in since last november. They've been spending the last several months arguing over what color to make the UI.


I'll believe that.


----------



## ScarletJerry

YaniDee said:


> Anyone have the time to spell this out? I did a search, and got:
> _"LMFAO_ is an American electronic dance music duo consisting of uncle Redfoo and nephew SkyBlu"



LMFAO=Laughing my freaking ass off.
OK - The F doesn’t really stand for freaking, but you can figure it out.


----------



## David Kudell

Some of you need to stop torturing yourselves - break down and get Berlin WW. Probably the most beautiful sample library I own (especially the solo instruments).


----------



## pawelmorytko

David Kudell said:


> Some of you need to stop torturing yourselves - break down and get Berlin WW. Probably the most beautiful sample library I own (especially the solo instruments).


I already gave in and got the BWW soloists 1 :( I’m worried because I love it so much that I really want to get the BWW Revive now...


----------



## Eptesicus

David Kudell said:


> Some of you need to stop torturing yourselves - break down and get Berlin WW. Probably the most beautiful sample library I own (especially the solo instruments).



But BWW + the solos is incredibly expensive. 

This will be $279 for those with another CS library....and likely might be just as good, if not better.


----------



## Gerbil

Eptesicus said:


> But BWW + the solos is incredibly expensive.



I have BWW and, while they are among the best, I think they're overpriced. I find myself using cinewinds just as much and they cost less than OT's Exp B.


----------



## RogiervG

I, among others _(any customer of their other products)_ am on their "early adopters" list.. getting a pre-release email announcement with coupon code_, once it's there._


----------



## filipjonathan

RogiervG said:


> I, among others _(any customer of their other products)_ am on their "early adopters" list.. getting a pre-release email announcement with coupon code_, once it's there._


Wait, if we own some of their products we'll get an email?


----------



## Supremo

pawelmorytko said:


> I already gave in and got the BWW soloists 1 :( I’m worried because I love it so much that I really want to get the BWW Revive now...


I listened to some Revive demoes and to my ears it doesn't sound as good as the BWW Legacy: too wet and too quiet.


----------



## RogiervG

filipjonathan said:


> Wait, if we own some of their products we'll get an email?



yes, eventually: a while ago, In a conversation i had with John (from cinematic studio series), he stated: just before the release Woodwinds, all customers will receive an email with a loyalty discount coupon code.


----------



## Bluemount Score

I hope there will be Saxophones and no Piccolo flute


----------



## axb312

Does anyone have any actual updates from Alex and Co.?


----------



## Symfoniq

axb312 said:


> Does anyone have any actual updates from Alex and Co.?



Alex told me in December work was ongoing, and that he was very happy with how the woodwinds were sounding. If it's taking longer than we'd like, that's because excellence and polish take time.


----------



## RogiervG

axb312 said:


> Does anyone have any actual updates from Alex and Co.?



Mine above is from not long ago.. guessing two or thee months ago.


----------



## filipjonathan

I think we all should tag @Alex W in every comment and force him to tell us at least roughly when it's coming out 🤔


----------



## averystemmler

Let the man work, you incorrigible hobgoblins.


----------



## jaketanner

Symfoniq said:


> Alex told me in December work was ongoing, and that he was very happy with how the woodwinds were sounding. If it's taking longer than we'd like, that's because excellence and polish take time.


This is one thing that I love about Alex and his company...when it's done, it's done. No real bugs to fix, and doesn't use us as beta testers to report issues.


----------



## filipjonathan

jaketanner said:


> This is one thing that I love about Alex and his company...when it's done, it's done. No real bugs to fix, and doesn't use us as beta testers to report issues.


No, I totally agree. I'm. Just. So. Damn. Impatient. (And in dire need of a (good) WW library)


----------



## jaketanner

filipjonathan said:


> No, I totally agree. I'm. Just. So. Damn. Impatient. (And in dire need of a (good) WW library)


you and me both! LOL I have the SStW pro and not great...useable for now, but really need better. I have come to the conclusion that woodwind ensembles are not the way to go...because I have also been using my Claire solo winds, and they're awesome. So I think the approach of soloists (different soloists with different instruments), will blend nicely within the context of an orchestration. I do not believe the same holds true for strings or brass...but winds can pull it off. SO might just consider accumulating several solo libraries to create my own..unless CSW drops within a month


----------



## Architekton

Ok, someone pls send an email to Alex and ask him what is going on? We'll soon have a riot here if it doesnt get released soon...  :D


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Architekton said:


> Ok, someone pls send an email to Alex and ask him what is going on? We'll soon have a riot here if it doesnt get released soon...  :D


From this post:
"I got John by email back in March. Expect it for late Q3 or Q4 due to the pandemic situation, but definitely this year."

Cool?


----------



## filipjonathan

Land of Missing Parts said:


> From this post:
> "I got John by email back in March. Expect it for late Q3 or Q4 due to the pandemic situation, but definitely this year."
> 
> Cool?


not. good. enough. We want the date and the hour!!!


----------



## David Kudell

While I love CSS and am waiting for CSW, there are still a couple really annoying issues that I hope will be fixed.

- Stuck notes in Logic (this is an annoying issue that affects CSB and CSSSS too. Does anyone have a fix for this?)

- Short articulations mod wheel control: Sometimes this is great, but it's a big pain when you're trying to key switch between legato parts and shorts. If you're riding the mod wheel on the sustain, it's anyone's guess which short articulation you might get when you key switch back to the shorts. I'd like a way to load just one of the shorts or else "lock" it to one type.


----------



## David Kudell

Also, anyone know if they're doing solo woodwinds? Hopefully there's a CSSW like the solo strings.


----------



## Symfoniq

David Kudell said:


> While I love CSS and am waiting for CSW, there are still a couple really annoying issues that I hope will be fixed.
> 
> - Short articulations mod wheel control: Sometimes this is great, but it's a big pain when you're trying to key switch between legato parts and shorts. If you're riding the mod wheel on the sustain, it's anyone's guess which short articulation you might get when you key switch back to the shorts. I'd like a way to load just one of the shorts or else "lock" it to one type.



I agree with this. One of the few pain points in an otherwise highly usable library.


----------



## Supremo

David Kudell said:


> Also, anyone know if they're doing solo woodwinds? Hopefully there's a CSSW like the solo strings.


Why don't you just remove the short articulations' modwheel link from the Midi Automation tab in the Kontakt player?


----------



## Supremo

Like this:


----------



## brek

David Kudell said:


> While I love CSS and am waiting for CSW, there are still a couple really annoying issues that I hope will be fixed.
> 
> - Stuck notes in Logic (this is an annoying issue that affects CSB and CSSSS too. Does anyone have a fix for this?)
> 
> - Short articulations mod wheel control: Sometimes this is great, but it's a big pain when you're trying to key switch between legato parts and shorts. If you're riding the mod wheel on the sustain, it's anyone's guess which short articulation you might get when you key switch back to the shorts. I'd like a way to load just one of the shorts or else "lock" it to one type.



I get stuck notes in Cubase too. Since they tend to be the same notes and not random, I add a little dab of CC123 (all notes off) at those spots. Not a fix, but gets the job done.

You can also right click on the wheel with the shorts selected and "unlearn" the CC1 assignment. I dislike that it is the default.


----------



## David Kudell

Supremo said:


> Why don't you just remove the short articulations' modwheel link from the Midi Automation tab in the Kontakt player?


Boom, I just discovered a whole new tab in Kontakt!  Thanks! 

It would still be a little more elegant if this was an option in the interface, but it's cool to have the ability now.


----------



## David Kudell

Ok so next question, now that we've disabled the mod wheel controlling the short articulation, is it possible to key switch between them?


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

David Kudell said:


> Ok so next question, now that we've disabled the mod wheel controlling the short articulation, is it possible to key switch between them?


You can use cc 58 as a UACC. Last page of the manual.






For your stuck notes, there's a thread.




__





CSS/ CSB Hanging Notes


I'm having a strange thing happen with CSB with the muted brass patches... the notes don't play when you press the keys down, but only when you release the key. Anyone else have this? Very frustrating! Any idea what this could be @Alex W ? Edit: only with muted sustains, using Logic Pro x




vi-control.net


----------



## brek

David Kudell said:


> Boom, I just discovered a whole new tab in Kontakt!  Thanks!
> 
> It would still be a little more elegant if this was an option in the interface, but it's cool to have the ability now.


You can do it in the interface!

One of the fun things about the automation tab is setting different percentages for "from" and "to" in the bottom left.

The keyswitch is also velocity dependent, so you can select them that way.


----------



## David Kudell

Land of Missing Parts said:


> For your stuck notes, there's a thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CSS/ CSB Hanging Notes
> 
> 
> I'm having a strange thing happen with CSB with the muted brass patches... the notes don't play when you press the keys down, but only when you release the key. Anyone else have this? Very frustrating! Any idea what this could be @Alex W ? Edit: only with muted sustains, using Logic Pro x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



Thanks, so Alex posted in that thread in March that they have an update that will fix the hanging notes issue. I'm looking forward to that!!


----------



## purple

David Kudell said:


> Also, anyone know if they're doing solo woodwinds? Hopefully there's a CSSW like the solo strings.


I think these are intended to be solo woodwinds. I hope it's not a bunch of ensemble patches. Something like what CSB is, with some a2 patches maybe is what I'm expecting. I hope they actually just include more instruments or 2nd chair players rather than a2 patches though.


----------



## filipjonathan

purple said:


> I think these are intended to be solo woodwinds. I hope it's not a bunch of ensemble patches. Something like what CSB is, with some a2 patches maybe is what I'm expecting. I hope they actually just include more instruments or 2nd chair players rather than a2 patches though.


This!


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

purple said:


> I think these are intended to be solo woodwinds. I hope it's not a bunch of ensemble patches. Something like what CSB is, with some a2 patches maybe is what I'm expecting. I hope they actually just include more instruments or 2nd chair players rather than a2 patches though.


I use to enjoy the freedom of single instruments, but I am definitely starting to see/hear a fairly noticeable difference when you use a2 patches for unison work rather than a bunch of single instruments. 

Personally I am hoping for a mix of solos and a2


----------



## Pablocrespo

David Kudell said:


> Boom, I just discovered a whole new tab in Kontakt!  Thanks!
> 
> It would still be a little more elegant if this was an option in the interface, but it's cool to have the ability now.


you can do it from the interface, right click on that big wheel and "unlearnd cc#1"


----------



## purple

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I use to enjoy the freedom of single instruments, but I am definitely starting to see/hear a fairly noticeable difference when you use a2 patches for unison work rather than a bunch of single instruments.
> 
> Personally I am hoping for a mix of solos and a2


I find that especially with woodwinds, unison is far rarer than divisi. I'd rather the majority of what I'm writing sound good rather than those few instances where I need specifically an exposed flute unison. In a full orchestra the difference is negligible, which is where I would write a2 if I had a live orchestra to work with.


----------



## Eptesicus

David Kudell said:


> While I love CSS and am waiting for CSW, there are still a couple really annoying issues that I hope will be fixed.
> 
> - Stuck notes in Logic (this is an annoying issue that affects CSB and CSSSS too. Does anyone have a fix for this?)
> 
> - Short articulations mod wheel control: Sometimes this is great, but it's a big pain when you're trying to key switch between legato parts and shorts. If you're riding the mod wheel on the sustain, it's anyone's guess which short articulation you might get when you key switch back to the shorts. I'd like a way to load just one of the shorts or else "lock" it to one type.



One other thing, is that CSS is a bit "pithchy" in places. It could do with a bit of "fine tuning" (lol),


----------



## David Kudell

Actual footage of me trying to hit the CSS legato on the beat.


----------



## Eptesicus

David Kudell said:


> Actual footage of me trying to hit the CSS legato on the beat.




Further footage of endlessly moving the start of each note:


----------



## Odum Abekah

Eptesicus said:


> Further footage of endlessly moving the start of each note:



LOL I remember when I first bought this and CSSS, and thought “What do you mean I can’t quantize? I have to use my EARS?”


----------



## Ashermusic

Odum Abekah said:


> LOL I remember when I first bought this and CSSS, and thought “What do you mean I can’t quantize? I have to use my EARS?”




Monk! I loved Tony Shaloub.


----------



## Symfoniq

Re: the legato latency, I'd love to see an update to the CS series that has a feature akin to the "Sample Start" dial in Audio Imperia's Nucleus.

Being able to pull the dial all the way down, compose without any sample latency, then pull the dial up and type in an equivalent time offset for the track would be an awesome workflow enhancement.

Edit: Audio Imperia has a video showing how it works


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

(Sorry, off-topic for CSW)


Symfoniq said:


> Re: the legato latency, I'd love to see an update to the CS series that has a feature akin to the "Sample Start" dial in Audio Imperia's Nucleus.
> 
> Being able to pull the dial all the way down, compose without any sample latency, then pull the dial up and type in an equivalent time offset for the track would be an awesome workflow enhancement.
> 
> Edit: Audio Imperia has a video showing how it works


Having a dial would be nice, although in practice you can accomplish the same thing by using the Classic Legato patches, which has very little latency, then switching back. (Or you can even just disable legato when playing in). I don't own Nucleus, but it seems like the dial control in CSS might be more complicated to implement because the amount of latency varies depending on the legato type.


----------



## David Kudell

This is where I feel technology in 2020 should be able to fix this problem. There needs to be a communication between the DAW and the VI where the VI can tell the DAW to move the notes after the recording to be in time automatically.

The only way I can think of now would be for sample players to have their own recording/piano roll similar to Toontrack's stuff, where you could play it in, quantize it, then hit a button and send the MIDI to your DAW with the proper delays.

I like to layer Berlin Strings with CSS. And I love the legato of the CSS series, but in practice if I was working on a deadline, I would always use Berlin because it has a much better balance between nice sounding legato and responsiveness.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

David Kudell said:


> This is where I feel technology in 2020 should be able to fix this problem. There needs to be a communication between the DAW and the VI where the VI can tell the DAW to move the notes after the recording to be in time automatically.


There are two separate problems. One is playing in live, which has no solution per-say, other than balancing the trade-off of realism vs responsiveness.

The other is playback; and for this it would be nice if the DAWS can look ahead and pass that information into Kontakt, so that notes can be activated before the playhead actually reaches them. I know there are compressor plugins that can do this. (Obviously, there is no such thing as looking ahead when playing in live though, since Kontakt would have to look into the future and activate a note before you play it.) 

The workaround is to use negative delay, of course, but then it interferes with the ability to play things in live. Also, it cannot give @Symfoniq the functionality that they were requesting.


----------



## Symfoniq

Land of Missing Parts said:


> (Sorry, off-topic for CSW)
> 
> Having a dial would be nice, although in practice you can accomplish the same thing by using the Classic Legato patches, which has very little latency, then switching back. (Or you can even just disable legato when playing in). I don't own Nucleus, but it seems like the dial control in CSS might be more complicated to implement because the amount of latency varies depending on the legato type.



I think you are right that this wouldn't be a silver bullet for the legato in CSS, since the different legato speeds have different latencies (I believe all the samples in Nucleus are at 150ms).

But it would still help in situations where you have a lot of legato transitions, most of which are at a certain speed. Then you'd only need to manually adjust the relatively few transitions that are faster or slower.

I do use the Classic Legato patches the way you suggest, and then switch them out. But it'd be nice to have something a little less fiddly.

Still, I'm not really complaining. The sound of the CS series is worth the workflow tradeoffs.


----------



## Fry777

Land of Missing Parts said:


> since Kontakt would have to look into the future and activate a note before you play it



I'm fully expecting this to be part of Kontakt 7


----------



## filipjonathan

Symfoniq said:


> The sound of the CS series is worth the workflow tradeoffs.


And on that note...any sign of the woodwinds??? 😂😂😂


----------



## ethormusic

My Kawai VPC1 which isn't even designed for non-piano libraries has this triple sensor technology that has made the control between velocities much easier for me, so now I can only play on advanced legato patches for both CSS and CSSS because I have gotten so used to it. My old Yamaha P200 didn't have such precise velocity control so using the anything but the classic patches was for a long time a big pain in the ass.
I made the mistake of buying what is now the "Professional" version of Spitfire BBCSO, and it can't even come close to competing with the Cinematic Studio series. The BBCSO woodwinds are generally okay and so I use them and the percussion alongside the CSS, CSSS, and CSB in my template, but I'm refraining from making any more plugin and library purchases so that I can save up for CSW.


----------



## filipjonathan

ethormusic said:


> but I'm refraining from making any more plugin and library purchases so that I can save up for CSW.


Literally me.


----------



## Saxer

I think as long as this thread is active the woodwinds won't be published. They are ready since month but it's too funny for Alex to read here daily.


----------



## purple

Saxer said:


> I think as long as this thread is active the woodwinds won't be published. They are ready since month but it's too funny for Alex to read here daily.


Maybe there's an official thread already and we are all too busy checking this one waiting to notice


----------



## CT

If this were to come out in the next couple weeks or so, I think I'd probably just get the whole shebang at once.


----------



## jaketanner

Symfoniq said:


> The sound of the CS series is worth the workflow tradeoffs


I think for any true legato library...like Performance Samples and Audio Imperia...there HAS to be a lag if you want true note start.


----------



## averystemmler

Saxer said:


> I think as long as this thread is active the woodwinds won't be published. They are ready since month but it's too funny for Alex to read here daily.



Like my grandmother used to tell me, a watched woodwind sample library never releases.


----------



## adfh adl

David Kudell said:


> Thanks, so Alex posted in that thread in March that they have an update that will fix the hanging notes issue. I'm looking forward to that!!


You're the dude who won the Spitfire Westworld Competition?? Congrats!


----------



## Eptesicus

Another sneaky bump! damn it 

Hope this comes out before my birthday in a few months time!


----------



## Casiquire

David Kudell said:


> Actual footage of me trying to hit the CSS legato on the beat.




Honestly it's a big factor keeping me from getting it.


----------



## filipjonathan

adfh adl said:


> You're the dude who won the Spitfire Westworld Competition?? Congrats!


🤫🤫🤫🤫 we don't want riots in this thread as well


----------



## Mars

Casiquire said:


> Honestly it's a big factor keeping me from getting it.



I don't know which DAW you're using but there are few differents scripts which are working pretty well with CSS. With Reaper, I just have to quantize the note start on the grid and hit a button with the script, and I'm done.
The first year without the script has been frustrating, I have to admit


----------



## Jay Panikkar

Every time you bump this thread and destroy people's hopes and dreams, a wee kitten gets strangled in cold blood.

Oh shit, I just strangled a kitten. :(


----------



## purple

Casiquire said:


> Honestly it's a big factor keeping me from getting it.


I don't know why people complain so much about this. It took me about half an hour of working on a cue to get confident playing CSS in with delay. Maybe I'll have to pencil in a velocity or shift a note back here and there, but it's not hard. If you want to hard-quantize, just use scripts like what someone said above. All of this is well worth it for the legato. It's literally impossible to get legato that good _without _the delay.


----------



## Simon Schrenk

Mars said:


> I don't know which DAW you're using but there are few differents scripts which are working pretty well with CSS. With Reaper, I just have to quantize the note start on the grid and hit a button with the script, and I'm done.
> The first year without the script has been frustrating, I have to admit


Yes, I do the same with Cubase! It analyzes which velocity the note is and adds the corresponding delay to it and lengthens the note a bit so legato would still be overlapping. Works like a charm!


----------



## Rob Elliott

purple said:


> I don't know why people complain so much about this. It took me about half an hour of working on a cue to get confident playing CSS in with delay. Maybe I'll have to pencil in a velocity or shift a note back here and there, but it's not hard. If you want to hard-quantize, just use scripts like what someone said above. All of this is well worth it for the legato. It's literally impossible to get legato that good _without _the delay.




Same exact experience. It's just an 'instrument' you have to learn how to 'play'. The end result is WELL worth it. For me, what happens BEFORE the APEX of the 'sample' is so important for ANY stringed instrument (especially.)

If this is just too problematic.... play with 'sustain' samples - cut the attack to '0' - set the release samples to shorter (all controllable by CC assignment) and write away. Apply your Daw's 'logical preset', inbed a legato switch (KS) and viola!!! I am so fast at this now I don't even think about it - and if I find myself complaining I just have to mix the cue/track and realize it was all worth it!.


----------



## Robert_G

Rob Elliott said:


> Same exact experience. It's just an 'instrument' you have to learn how to 'play'. The end result is WELL worth it. For me, what happens BEFORE the APEX of the 'sample' is so important for ANY stringed instrument (especially.)
> 
> If this is just too problematic.... play with 'sustain' samples - cut the attack to '0' - set the release samples to shorter (all controllable by CC assignment) and write away. Apply your Daw's 'logical preset', inbed a legato switch (KS) and viola!!! I am so fast at this now I don't even think about it - and if I find myself complaining I just have to mix the cue/track and realize it was all worth it!.



"Boom". It really is that simple.


----------



## Supremo

Mars said:


> I don't know which DAW you're using but there are few differents scripts which are working pretty well with CSS. With Reaper, I just have to quantize the note start on the grid and hit a button with the script, and I'm done.
> The first year without the script has been frustrating, I have to admit



Reaper user here. Would you please elaborate what script it is?


----------



## jaketanner

Casiquire said:


> Honestly it's a big factor keeping me from getting it.


Really not that hard to manage if you like the sound. Depends on how skilled of a keyboardist people are I guess...you can always step record the notes, move them by the 300ms or so, and done.


----------



## DexiMas

Simon Schrenk said:


> Yes, I do the same with Cubase! It analyzes which velocity the note is and adds the corresponding delay to it and lengthens the note a bit so legato would still be overlapping. Works like a charm!


I use Cubase but have never used this feature. Can you point me in a direction to learn more about it?


----------



## Kony

Rob Elliott said:


> inbed a legato switch (KS) and viola!!!


What about the violins, celli and bass...? (I'll get my coat)


----------



## Michael Stibor

jaketanner said:


> Really not that hard to manage if you like the sound. Depends on how skilled of a keyboardist people are I guess...you can always step record the notes, move them by the 300ms or so, and done.


Exactly. You don’t even have to be that skilled. Once you play with it for a bit, you get used to the delay. It’s the 100% quantize crowd that have issues with it.


----------



## purple

jaketanner said:


> Really not that hard to manage if you like the sound. Depends on how skilled of a keyboardist people are I guess...you can always step record the notes, move them by the 300ms or so, and done.


My only keyboard experience when I started this was faking my way through the general piano classes everyone at my music school were required to take. You only need to play one line at a time for legato anyways.


----------



## Simon Schrenk

DexiMas said:


> I use Cubase but have never used this feature. Can you point me in a direction to learn more about it?


It's a couple of midi logical editor presets combined to a macro. If you haven't dived into Midi Logical Editor and Project Logical Editor yet, fasten your seatbelt: this will change your life :D


----------



## Mars

Supremo said:


> Reaper user here. Would you please elaborate what script it is?


Sure, it's a script made by a forum member, @calebfaith. The google drive link seems still active :




__





Google Drive: Sign-in






drive.google.com




(go to CRT Folder and take a look at the manual).


----------



## Supremo

Mars said:


> Sure, it's a script made by a forum member, @calebfaith. The google drive link seems still active :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Drive: Sign-in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (go to CRT Folder and take a look at the manual).



Thanks bro!


----------



## DexiMas

Simon Schrenk said:


> It's a couple of midi logical editor presets combined to a macro. If you haven't dived into Midi Logical Editor and Project Logical Editor yet, fasten your seatbelt: this will change your life :D


Thank you, I'll look into these!


----------



## GingerMaestro

We are just about to enter quarter 3 on first of July..I feel it was mentioned by someone that Q3 might be an early Christmas present for many of us...


----------



## Robert_G

GingerMaestro said:


> We are just about to enter quarter 3 on first of July..I feel it was mentioned by someone that Q3 might be an early Christmas present for many of us...


Yup they said 3rd quarter. I expect to wake up Wed morning and it will be for sale.


----------



## purple

Yes I agree... It will certainly be some time in the next year or two or maybe more!


----------



## amorphosynthesis

Robert_G said:


> 3rd quarter


When they said 3rd quarter,were there wildfires and COVID present in Australia,or did it happen afterwards?


----------



## Robert_G

amorphosynthesis said:


> When they said 3rd quarter,were there wildfires and COVID present in Australia,or did it happen afterwards?



Lol. Im just being hopefully sarcasticly optimistic. In reality...Sept is probably even a bit too hopeful.


----------



## NoOneKnowsAnything

Kony said:


> Just wondering if anyone has a clue when this might be released? There is no info on the Cinematic Studio website and no announcement has been made yet.


Last year they said late summer this year. Who knows.


----------



## mojamusic

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Everyone will have bought and been disappointed by at least 2 other woodwind libraries by the time CSW releases



Ugh. That would be me!


----------



## cyrene

Are we there yet?


----------



## constaneum

Probably December 2020


----------



## Supremo

Everything happening in 2020 turns out to be a shit. So let’s hope CSW gets released no earlier than 2021.


----------



## Patryk Scelina

Another heart attack after seeing this post update. You're guys killing me :D


----------



## cqd

I was just coming to bump this thread thinking no one had in a couple of weeks..so no one's found any reason to email him?.. like, it's July now..


----------



## constaneum

Patryk Scelina said:


> Another heart attack after seeing this post update. You're guys killing me :D



Killing you softly.. 🎶🎼🎵


----------



## mcalis

Anyone want to speculate on articulations and instruments? Like, I don't think flutter tonguing is particularly essential on clarinets or bassoons, really. Double and triple tonguing are more useful, but the most useful would be to have extensive (measured) trills, beyond just major and minor 2nd. 

I'm secretely hoping we will get double woods instead of ensembles, but I doubt that will happen. In terms of instruments, my guess is:
Piccolo
Flute
Flute ensemble
Oboe
Oboe Ensemble
Clarinet
Clarinet Ensemble
Bassoon
Bassoon Ensemble
Contrabassoon

I don't think we'll see any Eb clarinets, alto/bass flutes, cor anglais (that one is iffy), bass clarinet or saxophones. 

What does everyone else think? I know it's pointless speculation, just curious what the consensus is.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

mcalis said:


> Anyone want to speculate on articulations and instruments? Like, I don't think flutter tonguing is particularly essential on clarinets or bassoons, really. Double and triple tonguing are more useful, but the most useful would be to have extensive (measured) trills, beyond just major and minor 2nd.
> 
> I'm secretely hoping we will get double woods instead of ensembles, but I doubt that will happen. In terms of instruments, my guess is:
> Piccolo
> Flute
> Flute ensemble
> Oboe
> Oboe Ensemble
> Clarinet
> Clarinet Ensemble
> Bassoon
> Bassoon Ensemble
> Contrabassoon
> 
> I don't think we'll see any Eb clarinets, alto/bass flutes, cor anglais (that one is iffy), bass clarinet or saxophones.
> 
> What does everyone else think? I know it's pointless speculation, just curious what the consensus is.



Consistency is the staple of the Cinematic Studio series, so I'd be very surprised if there are any "extras." Almost perfect bread and butter articulations; nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Eptesicus

mcalis said:


> Anyone want to speculate on articulations and instruments? Like, I don't think flutter tonguing is particularly essential on clarinets or bassoons, really. Double and triple tonguing are more useful, but the most useful would be to have extensive (measured) trills, beyond just major and minor 2nd.
> 
> I'm secretely hoping we will get double woods instead of ensembles, but I doubt that will happen. In terms of instruments, my guess is:
> Piccolo
> Flute
> Flute ensemble
> Oboe
> Oboe Ensemble
> Clarinet
> Clarinet Ensemble
> Bassoon
> Bassoon Ensemble
> Contrabassoon
> 
> I don't think we'll see any Eb clarinets, alto/bass flutes, cor anglais (that one is iffy), bass clarinet or saxophones.
> 
> What does everyone else think? I know it's pointless speculation, just curious what the consensus is.



like you i am hoping for double winds (ie multiple solos) but i think it will be more like how you have described it.

Im hopeful it may well include alto and cor though. I dont think it will have anything further than just normal clarinets though.


----------



## mcalis

Jay Panikkar said:


> Consistency is the staple of the Cinematic Studio series, so I'd be very surprised if there are any "extras." Almost perfect bread and butter articulations; nothing more, nothing less.


Yeah, I'm not counting on any ham for my bread and butter . Not all articulations from either strings or brass translate in a meaningful way though. I wouldn't exactly consider flutter tonguing or multiphonics to be bread and butter articulations. So if those are skipped (thereby reducing production time) I'm hoping we'll get a greater variety of trills instead.


----------



## averystemmler

mcalis said:


> I don't think we'll see any Eb clarinets, alto/bass flutes, cor anglais (that one is iffy), bass clarinet or saxophones.



Unfortunately, I'm expecting the same re: the flutes. I love having a full "flute section," so I hope I'm wrong.

Cor anglais and bass clarinet feel a little more likely to me, but I'm not entirely sure why. Saxophones though, I think, would be an entirely different product.

My expectations are pretty much in line with yours: Solo and ensemble versions of the basic piccolo, flute, oboe, clarinet, and bassoon. I feel like they'll all have near identical articulations, and probably including major and minor 2nd trills, repetitions/double tonguing, and some sort of flutter or similar across the board. The brass is surprisingly comprehensive with the flutter and rip effects.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I'd rather have the Cor Anglais and Bass Clarinet over ensembles, tbh. Feels like most Woodwind libraries leave out these instruments. Don't want more of the same.


----------



## CT

It would be great if this is one of the rare woodwind libraries that *doesn't* suffer from any of the usual cut corners. I'll be quite disappointed otherwise, honestly.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Mike T said:


> It would be great if this is one of the rare woodwind libraries that *doesn't* suffer from any of the usual cut corners. I'll be quite disappointed otherwise, honestly.


Which cut corners are you referring to?


----------



## purple

Mike T said:


> It would be great if this is one of the rare woodwind libraries that *doesn't* suffer from any of the usual cut corners. I'll be quite disappointed otherwise, honestly.


I think the CS series has avoided cutting corners up to this point. I am confident they won't here either. They seem to be really proud of their libraries and they deserve to be so. The only corner I want to see cut is the release date.


----------



## ethormusic

mcalis said:


> Anyone want to speculate on articulations and instruments? Like, I don't think flutter tonguing is particularly essential on clarinets or bassoons, really. Double and triple tonguing are more useful, but the most useful would be to have extensive (measured) trills, beyond just major and minor 2nd.
> 
> I'm secretely hoping we will get double woods instead of ensembles, but I doubt that will happen. In terms of instruments, my guess is:
> Piccolo
> Flute
> Flute ensemble
> Oboe
> Oboe Ensemble
> Clarinet
> Clarinet Ensemble
> Bassoon
> Bassoon Ensemble
> Contrabassoon
> 
> I don't think we'll see any Eb clarinets, alto/bass flutes, cor anglais (that one is iffy), bass clarinet or saxophones.
> 
> What does everyone else think? I know it's pointless speculation, just curious what the consensus is.




Honestly I hope it's more among the lines of:

Flute Solo
Flutes a2
Piccolo
Alto Flute?
Oboe Solo
Oboes a2
Cor Anglais
Clarinet Solo
Clarinets a2
Bass Clarinet
Bassoon
Bassoons a2
Contrabassoon

Cor Anglais and Bass Clarinet are MUSTS for CSW, otherwise I will be sorely disappointed. Alto Flute would be a bonus, but I wouldn't be upset if it wasn't included.

As for articulations, I think it's most likely going to be similar to CSB's articulations.


----------



## Robert_G

ethormusic said:


> Honestly I hope it's more among the lines of:
> 
> Flute Solo
> Flutes a2
> Piccolo
> Alto Flute?
> Oboe Solo
> Oboes a2
> Cor Anglais
> Clarinet Solo
> Clarinets a2
> Bass Clarinet
> Bassoon
> Bassoons a2
> Contrabassoon
> 
> Cor Anglais and Bass Clarinet are MUSTS for CSW, otherwise I will be sorely disappointed. Alto Flute would be a bonus, but I wouldn't be upset if it wasn't included.
> 
> As for articulations, I think it's most likely going to be similar to CSB's articulations.



Good list...very much what I'm hoping for too, but if I had to choose between a Bass Clarinet and an Alto Flute for inclusion in CSW....I'm going to choose Alto flute every time.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Someone said that they recorded Alto Flute in this thread I think.


----------



## pawelmorytko

This is what makes me hopefull for expansions for CSB and CSW, if they do end up having just the bread and butter instruments and articulations. A sort of expansion system similar to Orchestral Tools would be a great way for Alex to be able to add some more brass and wind instruments and possibly more articulations (not that I need them personally really)


----------



## wst3

This is a good list:
Flute Solo
Flutes a2
Piccolo
Oboe Solo
Oboes a2
Cor Anglais
Clarinet Solo
Clarinets a2
Bass Clarinet
Bassoon
Bassoons a2
Contrabassoon 

I'd also be fine with a second solo player in place of the a2 versions, although having two separate players and an a2 patch would be ideal.

Alto Flute and Eb Clarinet would be a very nice additions.

As far as articulations, if they follow the pattern they used for brass and strings I think I'd be quite happy. I have a couple libraries that have woodwind effects, what I am looking for is a woodwind section that blends easily with CSS and CSB.

All crazy speculation, and at this point I imagine the sampling part of the project is long since finished...


----------



## Tinesaeriel

I posted this earlier in this thread, but it's been mentioned a few times that this is reported to be the Cinematic Studio Series' biggest library yet, so here's a list of what I think/would really like to see happen for this library:

Piccolo
Flute 1
Flute 2
Flute a2
Alto Flute
Bass Flute
Oboe 1
Oboe 2
Oboe a2
English Horn
Clarinet 1
Clarinet 2
Clarinet a2
Bass Clarinet
Contrabass Clarinet
Bassoon 1
Bassoon 2
Bassoon a2
Contrabasoon

15 soloists; 4 ensembles; 19 instruments total

This would be such a godsend to have, especially given the Cinematic Studio Series superb programming and playability. For both the strings and brass, I've yet to encounter better legato. I barely even notice the delay anymore.

I know everyone's harping on about there being an Alto Flute and Bass Clarinet, and I'm fairly certain those are a done deal, given that it was revealed earlier in the thread that they indeed recorded an alto flute, but what I'd be thrilled to see is if they recorded a Bass Flute and Contrabass Clarinet. I personally love the tone of the Contrabass Clarinet more than the Contrabasoon, so I'd be thrilled to have that option available to me on top of the Contrabasoon. 

Likewise for the Bass Flute - it's a sound I absolutely love, and want to hear done well in a library outside of EastWest Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds. It sounds good there, and Metropolis Ark 2 does the a3 Bass Flute ensemble decently, too, but I want a Bass Flute instrument done with the quality I know the Cinematic Studio Series is known for. So, pretty please let there be a Contrabass Clarinet and Bass Flute in this library, too!

Best,
Adam/Tines


----------



## Simon Schrenk

I'd really prefer the multiple solo instruments over the ensembles. Much more flexibility in the orchestration!


----------



## Eptesicus

Tinesaeriel said:


> I posted this earlier in this thread, but it's been mentioned a few times that this is reported to be the Cinematic Studio Series' biggest library yet, so here's a list of what I think/would really like to see happen for this library:
> 
> Piccolo
> Flute 1
> Flute 2
> Flute a2
> Alto Flute
> Bass Flute
> Oboe 1
> Oboe 2
> Oboe a2
> English Horn
> Clarinet 1
> Clarinet 2
> Clarinet a2
> Bass Clarinet
> Contrabass Clarinet
> Bassoon 1
> Bassoon 2
> Bassoon a2
> Contrabasoon
> 
> 15 soloists; 4 ensembles; 19 instruments total
> 
> This would be such a godsend to have, especially given the Cinematic Studio Series superb programming and playability. For both the strings and brass, I've yet to encounter better legato. I barely even notice the delay anymore.
> 
> I know everyone's harping on about there being an Alto Flute and Bass Clarinet, and I'm fairly certain those are a done deal, given that it was revealed earlier in the thread that they indeed recorded an alto flute, but what I'd be thrilled to see is if they recorded a Bass Flute and Contrabass Clarinet. I personally love the tone of the Contrabass Clarinet more than the Contrabasoon, so I'd be thrilled to have that option available to me on top of the Contrabasoon.
> 
> Likewise for the Bass Flute - it's a sound I absolutely love, and want to hear done well in a library outside of EastWest Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds. It sounds good there, and Metropolis Ark 2 does the a3 Bass Flute ensemble decently, too, but I want a Bass Flute instrument done with the quality I know the Cinematic Studio Series is known for. So, pretty please let there be a Contrabass Clarinet and Bass Flute in this library, too!
> 
> Best,
> Adam/Tines



This would be great, but I would be very surprised if it went as far as bass flute and contrabass clarinet!

I hope you are right about the two solosist and 1 a2 ensemble for flute,oboe,clarinet and bassoon though.


----------



## Supremo

I am pretty sure CSW will contain cor anglais because this instrument has pretty much replaced oboe in today's movie industry and being belonged to the 'Cinematic Studio' line, it is a MUST have.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Tinesaeriel said:


> I posted this earlier in this thread, but it's been mentioned a few times that this is reported to be the Cinematic Studio Series' biggest library yet, so here's a list of what I think/would really like to see happen for this library:
> 
> Piccolo
> Flute 1
> Flute 2
> Flute a2
> Alto Flute
> Bass Flute
> Oboe 1
> Oboe 2
> Oboe a2
> English Horn
> Clarinet 1
> Clarinet 2
> Clarinet a2
> Bass Clarinet
> Contrabass Clarinet
> Bassoon 1
> Bassoon 2
> Bassoon a2
> Contrabasoon
> 
> 15 soloists; 4 ensembles; 19 instruments total
> 
> This would be such a godsend to have, especially given the Cinematic Studio Series superb programming and playability. For both the strings and brass, I've yet to encounter better legato. I barely even notice the delay anymore.
> 
> I know everyone's harping on about there being an Alto Flute and Bass Clarinet, and I'm fairly certain those are a done deal, given that it was revealed earlier in the thread that they indeed recorded an alto flute, but what I'd be thrilled to see is if they recorded a Bass Flute and Contrabass Clarinet. I personally love the tone of the Contrabass Clarinet more than the Contrabasoon, so I'd be thrilled to have that option available to me on top of the Contrabasoon.
> 
> Likewise for the Bass Flute - it's a sound I absolutely love, and want to hear done well in a library outside of EastWest Hollywood Orchestral Woodwinds. It sounds good there, and Metropolis Ark 2 does the a3 Bass Flute ensemble decently, too, but I want a Bass Flute instrument done with the quality I know the Cinematic Studio Series is known for. So, pretty please let there be a Contrabass Clarinet and Bass Flute in this library, too!
> 
> Best,
> Adam/Tines


I would absolutely love to see that... would pay an extra 100 bucks for that instrument list. Really liking Alto and Bass Flute as well and currently using those from Ark 2, however I prefer soloists.


----------



## purple

I hope there are no ensembles personally. They are far less useful with woodwinds. When I'm writing for exposed woodwinds, they are either solo or playing in harmony for the most part. Who the hell uses oboes a2 more than one in a blue moon? Is it enough to warrant needing an ensemble patch over 2 separate soloists? I think not. The only time I would ever write them in unison over an entire phrase would be when it's a big tutti moment so they cut through, and in such a moment the subtle nuance of differences between an ensemble patch and 2 solo patches are irrelevant. Not to mention the fact that we don't need multiple players to cut through the orchestra when we have faders... I don't see them satisfying both of these desires at the same price point, so I hope they prioritize soloists.


----------



## jamwerks

I imagine that there will be both soloists and either a2 or a3 ensembles of the 4 main instruments, plus Picc., English horn, Bass Clarinet & Contrebasson.

Both soloists and ensembles are necessary to write "correctly" for WW's. Of course anything we want to get the effect we want is "correct", but people who know how to orchestrate (in the traditional sense) know how to use both. Just as adding voices with a slight detune on a synth patch will "fatten" the sound, giving it weight (without necessarily giving more volume) the same thing happens with these instruments even when they aren't that exposed.


----------



## Jaap

Can we lock this thread till it’s released @Mike Greene ? Seeing this thread brought up is bad for my heart


----------



## filipjonathan

Anytime now boys, anytime!!!


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Can we make a Cinematic Studio Support Group or something?


----------



## Symfoniq

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Can we make a Cinematic Studio Support Group or something?



You mean CSSG?


----------



## cqd

I can't wait for someone to start the perc thread..


----------



## Robert_G

cqd said:


> I can't wait for someone to start the perc thread..



For every 1 person that cares about CSP there are 50 people who care about CSW. Good cheap Perc is easy to find. Price friendly quality woodwinds.....not so much.


----------



## purple

cqd said:


> I can't wait for someone to start the perc thread..


I think someone already started a choir thread...


----------



## cqd

purple said:


> I think someone already started a choir thread...



What colour do they think it's going to be?..


----------



## jaketanner

After ALL Cinematic libraries are released, we then will need ONE GUI to house them all...alla BBCSO... LMAO


----------



## NoamL

pawelmorytko said:


> This is what makes me hopefull for expansions for CSB and CSW, if they do end up having just the bread and butter instruments and articulations. A sort of expansion system similar to Orchestral Tools would be a great way for Alex to be able to add some more brass and wind instruments and possibly more articulations (not that I need them personally really)



What would you like to see added for the brass Pawel? I'd like horns a2 but other than that CSB seems pretty complete?


----------



## NoamL

Supremo said:


> I am pretty sure CSW will contain cor anglais because this instrument has pretty much replaced oboe in today's movie industry and being belonged to the 'Cinematic Studio' line, it is a MUST have.



Yes out of all the auxiliaries, EH and Alto Flute would be the nicest to have. I think Contrabsn almost goes without saying...


----------



## pawelmorytko

NoamL said:


> What would you like to see added for the brass Pawel? I'd like horns a2 but other than that CSB seems pretty complete?


For CSB, the perfect line up for me would be having 2 solo options for trumpets and horns, so something like

Solo Horn 1
Solo Horn 2
Horns a4
Solo Trumpet 1
Solo Trumpet 2
Trumpets a2

and obviously the rest as it is, but with this line up, you could do solo lines for more than one horn/trumpet, without the transpose trick, and then not only that, you could stack the 2 solo trumpets with a2 to make a nice a4 trumpet section, same with the horns to make a very common a6 horn section. I guess you could also have a2 horns, but you could simply just layer the 2 solo horns together (although they wouldn't be playing as an ensemble unfortunately) Would be sweet to see a potential cimbassi in there also!


----------



## pawelmorytko

I would also love to see an a3 Bass Trombone patch, but think what I really want is Cinematic Symphonic Brass, recorded in a bigger hall, with bigger sections, and part of a Cinematic Symphonic Series....


----------



## I like music

Imagine if you found out that Alex was actually working on his own player (e.g. SINE) and that CSW wouldn't be released until he had released and tested that with the original libraries...


----------



## purple

I like music said:


> Imagine if you found out that Alex was actually working on his own player (e.g. SINE) and that CSW wouldn't be released until he had released and tested that with the original libraries...


Seems like an odd choice to me... The CS series is so simple I doubt kontakt is technically limiting to them. The only advantage to that would be security, but with such a reasonable price with loyalty discounts I doubt piracy is as rampant as it is with, say, orchestral tools and spitfire. Nor do I think they are a big enough company to have the resources for that.


----------



## I like music

purple said:


> Seems like an odd choice to me... The CS series is so simple I doubt kontakt is technically limiting to them. The only advantage to that would be security, but with such a reasonable price with loyalty discounts I doubt piracy is as rampant as it is with, say, orchestral tools and spitfire. Nor do I think they are a big enough company to have the resources for that.


Hah I know. Was just joking, thinking about what could delay CSW further and give people palpitations!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

NoamL said:


> What would you like to see added for the brass Pawel? I'd like horns a2 but other than that CSB seems pretty complete?


Cimbasso


----------



## ethormusic

NoamL said:


> What would you like to see added for the brass Pawel? I'd like horns a2 but other than that CSB seems pretty complete?


For me personally I'm happy with what's already there. Horns a2 would be nice for flexibility purposes but I also have to trust Alex's work with the virtual orchestra he's been building, in terms of balance. The string section is not huge, so the maximum number of horns that makes sense relative to the strings is 4, for example.

I would expect the number of woodwinds that Alex recorded for CSW will be appropriately relative to the strings and brass sections.


----------



## jaketanner

ethormusic said:


> For me personally I'm happy with what's already there. Horns a2 would be nice for flexibility purposes but I also have to trust Alex's work with the virtual orchestra he's been building, in terms of balance. The string section is not huge, so the maximum number of horns that makes sense relative to the strings is 4, for example.
> 
> I would expect the number of woodwinds that Alex recorded for CSW will be appropriately relative to the strings and brass sections.


yes makes sense to me. I think it's the instruments and articulations that is most concerning, and if there is going to be solo instrument as well.


----------



## cqd

There's going to be solos and A2 I reckon..

How extensive the list, we'll see..


----------



## Blatter Works

Any new updates? Come on guys, I am starving for meaningless conspiracy hints!


----------



## I like music

Wow, talk about timing guys. Have you seen their website here?


----------



## Sovereign

I like music said:


> Wow, talk about timing guys. Have you seen their website here?


Posting such a link should be a bannable offense.


----------



## I like music

Sovereign said:


> Posting such a link should be a bannable offense.



I knew, as I was posting it, that I was probably about to make myself a pariah here. At this point, between Trump, Brexit, COVID-19, Russia with its nukes, Pakistan and India and China about to have a big fight, I reckon the world will end before I face any repercussions for that post.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

I like music said:


> I knew, as I was posting it, that I was probably about to make myself a pariah here. At this point, between Trump, Brexit, COVID-19, Russia with its nukes, Pakistan and India and China about to have a big fight, I reckon the world will end before I face any repercussions for that post.


Maybe the world will end before the library gets released too!


----------



## rottoy

Seeing this thread reappear with absolutely no news:


----------



## filipjonathan

Blatter Works said:


> Any new updates? Come on guys, I am starving for meaningless conspiracy hints!


LOL I'm so glad someone else posted! I'm desperate for some info on it!!!


----------



## filipjonathan

Anyone wanna contact CS to ask them??? Please 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻😅


----------



## Andrew0568




----------



## filipjonathan

Andrew0568 said:


>


We've already had this answer 😢 Thanks for posting anyway!


----------



## I like music

Andrew0568 said:


>



"We're super happy with how it's sounding so far"

I love this dev. Rather than bang on about the next big thing in huge promotions, they're just giving you an honest appraisal of their own work. They're not saying "you'll be blown away" but that they _hope_ you like them too.

Humble (and smart in many ways)


----------



## Michael Stibor

I like music said:


> "We're super happy with how it's sounding so far"
> 
> I love this dev. Rather than bang on about the next big thing in huge promotions, they're just giving you an honest appraisal of their own work. They're not saying "you'll be blown away" but that they _hope_ you like them too.
> 
> Humble (and smart in many ways)


You mean it’s not a “game changer”?


----------



## jaketanner

We all need to buy Synchronized Winds from VSL and call it good. Lol. It’s most likely what I’m gonna do.


----------



## I like music

Michael Stibor said:


> You mean it’s not a “game changer”?


Most devs now believe they ARE the game!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Michael Stibor said:


> You mean it’s not a “game changer”?


----------



## Supremo

Michael Stibor said:


> You mean it’s not a “game changer”?


But it’s a new chapter, after all.


----------



## I like music

Supremo said:


> But it’s a new chapter, after all.


Slowest serialised novel ever.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Michael Stibor said:


> You mean it’s not a “game changer”?


It's still woodwinds like we've never heard before.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Cinematic Studio Winds of Winter.


----------



## rottoy

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Cinematic Studio Winds of Winter.


----------



## Steve Lum

Rottoy, winner of the Internet, July 29 2020


----------



## filipjonathan

jaketanner said:


> We all need to buy Synchronized Winds from VSL and call it good. Lol. It’s most likely what I’m gonna do.


Noo why did you put this idea in my head now 😩


----------



## mcalis

rottoy said:


>


Honestly, thank you for that haha. I haven't laughed so hard at a picture in a long time!

For everyone else waiting, just set your expectation to December 31st 2020 and you won't have any sleepless nights anymore. I mean, it would be almost cathartic to end this fuck-off year with the coveted CSW loaded in our DAWs...Fireworks would be appropriate. That said, I won't complain if I get my hands on it sooner


----------



## constaneum

ok folks. since it's winter at certain part of the world, let's just hibernate for a while and wait till summer time and bump this thread again. * signing off *


----------



## purple

So we have once again reached the conclusion that CSW will be released at some point.


----------



## gyprock

Yoo Hoo - just been released. Details on website shortly ...zzzzzz


----------



## jaketanner

filipjonathan said:


> Noo why did you put this idea in my head now 😩


Because they’re awesome. Lol.


----------



## Kent

I _think_ I may have accidentally stumbled upon the first inkling of this on the forum:



paulcole said:


> I think Cinematic (Alex Walbank) _may_ also be thinking of a woodwind library.



From 2012...


----------



## doctoremmet

kmaster said:


> I _think_ I may have accidentally stumbled upon the first inkling of this on the forum:
> 
> 
> 
> From 2012...


By now someone really should write a book about this. Or at least a long read article for NYT, like the one they did on the NI Stradivari Violin... nice find!


----------



## filipjonathan

kmaster said:


> I _think_ I may have accidentally stumbled upon the first inkling of this on the forum:
> 
> 
> 
> From 2012...


Well great. Now I'm back thinking about this bloody library all the time 😂


----------



## Michael Stibor

purple said:


> So we have once again reached the conclusion that CSW will be released at some point.


----------



## filipjonathan

Well we only got 4 months left in this year. So I guess, it's coming soon 😄


----------



## Kent

Conversely, here’s the latest:



Alex W said:


> This is a strange issue, I've been trying to figure out what's going on here, as it seems that the update has certainly changed some MIDI behaviour. I checked out the list of additions for version 6.4 (https://www.native-instruments.com/...l-update-status-kontakt-6-current-6-4.336867/) and couldn't see anything concerning, but I'm not as fluent in KSP as others around here.
> 
> Based on what I've seen in Ron's video, it appears that some notes are taking a long time to fade out after releasing the key. It's important to distinguish this from a "hung note" - these are not hung notes, they're just notes that are taking way too long to fade out; it sounds as though the release setting has been set to maximum, even though it hasn't.
> 
> The release setting is actually tethered to CC81, so whenever you're adjusting the release setting, it is sending CC81 messages that modulate a release dial inside the patch. It's a fairly simple setup - setting release to maximum causes a CC81 message with a value of 127 to be sent, while the minimum setting of course sends a CC81 value of 0. It's also worth noting that CC80 controls attack, so it would be interesting to hear from any affected users as to whether or not they can hear the attack of the notes being similarly affected. Different controller numbers are used for each articulation too, so it would also be helpful to know if any other articulations (eg tremolo, trills etc) exhibit the same behaviour.
> 
> For some notes to sound as though the release setting has been set to maximum, it's possible that it's being caused by an erroneous CC81 message with a value of 127 being sent from somewhere, for some reason. The fact that it only occurs for some notes and not others is also quite strange. So I guess my question for NI is: can you think of any function that has been added to version 6.4 that could potentially cause a CC81 @127 value to be sent? Of course it could also be totally unrelated to CC behaviour altogether, but this seems to be a logical place to work back from.
> 
> Lastly, to anyone experiencing this issue, I'm sorry for the inconvenience. I'm entering the late stages of programming and tweaking for CSW now, so hopefully with NI's help, we can get this all sorted and I can get back to the task at hand!


----------



## VSriHarsha

I don’t have CSW but how does it sound outta box? I guess someone in the forum should make a video about it or may be there is already? Can it survive without reverb(built in or the external)?


----------



## muziksculp

VSriHarsha said:


> I don’t have CSW but how does it sound outta box? I guess someone in the forum should make a video about it or may be there is already? Can it survive without reverb(built in or the external)?



CSW has not been released yet.


----------



## VSriHarsha

muziksculp said:


> CSW has not been released yet.


 Damn! Sorry for that.


----------



## I like music

VSriHarsha said:


> Damn! Sorry for that.


It sounds damn good out of the box, even though no one has heard it yet.


----------



## VSriHarsha

I like music said:


> It sounds damn good out of the box, even though no one has heard it yet.


Good to hear.


----------



## Eptesicus

kmaster said:


> Conversely, here’s the latest:




Oh ****. Stupid kontakt bug delaying CSW even further .


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> CSW has not been released yet.


It still sounds good though


----------



## purple

VSriHarsha said:


> I don’t have CSW but how does it sound outta box? I guess someone in the forum should make a video about it or may be there is already? Can it survive without reverb(built in or the external)?



I've certainly never used any reverb with it. Your mileage may vary!


----------



## doctoremmet

purple said:


> I've certainly never used any reverb with it. Your mileage may vary!


Can any woodwind sample survive without reverb though? I have seen many an oboe die when I turned off 7H.


----------



## filipjonathan

While we're at it, anyone care to contact Alex? 😂


----------



## ScarletJerry

VSriHarsha said:


> I don’t have CSW but how does it sound outta box? I guess someone in the forum should make a video about it or may be there is already? Can it survive without reverb(built in or the external)?


Out of the box? it’s not even in the box yet!


----------



## Jdiggity1

filipjonathan said:


> While we're at it, anyone care to contact Alex? 😂



Alex posted this in another thread just yesterday:



Alex W said:


> ...I'm entering the late stages of programming and tweaking for CSW now, so hopefully with NI's help, we can get this all sorted and I can get back to the task at hand!



So maybe hold off on the bombardment of eager emails for now.


----------



## filipjonathan

Jdiggity1 said:


> Alex posted this in another thread just yesterday:
> 
> 
> 
> So maybe hold off on the bombardment of eager emails for now.


I was hoping that by now they were all ready for the marketing phase... Oh well, better late than never.


----------



## purple

doctoremmet said:


> Can any woodwind sample survive without reverb though? I have seen many an oboe die when I turned off 7H.


I've seen them die in the studio without the reverb turned up!


----------



## VSriHarsha

purple said:


> I've certainly never used any reverb with it. Your mileage may vary!


That’s good!


----------



## VSriHarsha

ScarletJerry said:


> Out of the box? it’s not even in the box yet!


Lol!


----------



## Eptesicus

filipjonathan said:


> I was hoping that by now they were all ready for the marketing phase... Oh well, better late than never.



Yeh I was rather hoping for a nice surprise this month. Sounds like it will still be another few months at least.


----------



## Peter Wayne

Eptesicus said:


> Yeh I was rather hoping for a nice surprise this month. Sounds like it will still be another few months at least.


Does anyone know exactly what instruments will be in this library? Will it have solo and ensemble as the one product like CSB or will they do solo separately like with CSSS?


----------



## Supremo

Just received this e-mail update.


----------



## axb312

Supremo said:


> Just received this e-mail update.


Haha. For real?


----------



## filipjonathan

Supremo said:


> Just received this e-mail update.


Lol! For a second I thought it was real 😂


----------



## IdealSequenceG

I think CSW sound can be heard a little from CSSS demo song Tokyo Sunset.


----------



## Bluemount Score

IdealSequenceG said:


> I think CSW sound can be heard a little from CSSS demo song Tokyo Sunset.


That demo is very old. I think it's a different library as CSW probably isn't in development since then.


----------



## Eptesicus

Supremo said:


> Just received this e-mail update.



You somewhat had me in the first paragraph, I'm not gonna lie .


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Peter Wayne said:


> Does anyone know exactly what instruments will be in this library? Will it have solo and ensemble as the one product like CSB or will they do solo separately like with CSSS?


We don't know this yet, but the library will look and sound something like this:


----------



## GoatTheWise

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> We don't know this yet, but the library will look and sound something like this:


I hope it will be yellow/gold instead of green. 
I have no clue about the articulation though (I hope there will an overblow articulation, but I don't think so)


----------



## Pantonal

filipjonathan said:


> I was hoping that by now they were all ready for the marketing phase... Oh well, better late than never.


Marketing?! With all the eager souls here who are desperate to have CSW (myself included) who needs to spend money on marketing? Just put it out (when it's ready) and watch the cash flow in. Then when the Tsunami of orders slows down you can spend a bit on marketing. Coincidentally the ad showing up just below as I type this is for CSS, change that to CSW and watch people feverishly click the link.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

GoatTheWise said:


> I hope it will be yellow/gold instead of green.


Hmm ... do you think so? With this color it sounds different. Although a little stressful, I like it. The playability is good. Although green is certainly calmer. Hey, but who said that woodwind instruments are only calm?


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

So, random music pieces as demos and fake screenshots... people have finally lost their mind over this.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Should be 'pink' - cause that's what color my WDS tracks are in my template.  Plus is WILL sound better.


----------



## filipjonathan

Pantonal said:


> Marketing?! With all the eager souls here who are desperate to have CSW (myself included) who needs to spend money on marketing? Just put it out (when it's ready) and watch the cash flow in. Then when the Tsunami of orders slows down you can spend a bit on marketing. Coincidentally the ad showing up just below as I type this is for CSS, change that to CSW and watch people feverishly click the link.


You are so right!


----------



## Architekton

So, It will be released between 12-20 and 02-21! Waiting is killing me...


----------



## Eptesicus

Architekton said:


> So, It will be released between 12-20 and 02-21! Waiting is killing me...



Who said that?


----------



## Architekton

Eptesicus said:


> Who said that?



Check post 724:




__





Cinematic Studio Woodwinds


I've certainly never used any reverb with it. Your mileage may vary! Can any woodwind sample survive without reverb though? I have seen many an oboe die when I turned off 7H.




vi-control.net


----------



## Eptesicus

Architekton said:


> Check post 724:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cinematic Studio Woodwinds
> 
> 
> I've certainly never used any reverb with it. Your mileage may vary! Can any woodwind sample survive without reverb though? I have seen many an oboe die when I turned off 7H.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net



Oh, yeh ive seen that. I was wondering where you got the Dec - Feb window from?


----------



## Architekton

Eptesicus said:


> Oh, yeh ive seen that. I was wondering where you got the Dec - Feb window from?



Just an assumption...man can dream, right?


----------



## Eptesicus

Architekton said:


> Just an assumption...man can dream, right?



Oh i see. Well, i was hoping for it earlier than that (ie next month or so)! That is still potentially 6 months away if it comes out in Feb! :(


----------



## doctoremmet

Every time someone bumps up this thread my mind just replaces the title with “Century Woodwinds”... I guess the profound sense of really missing something is the same...


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

OMG Alex just announced the release date!!!!!



























Is what I am going to say when they announce the release date, probably


----------



## Gerbil

I hate this thread.


----------



## I like music

Gerbil said:


> I hate this thread.


But you need this thread. And therein lies the tragedy.


----------



## filipjonathan

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> OMG Alex just announced the release date!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is what I am going to say when they announce the release date, probably


Whyyy?!!!


----------



## Rob Elliott

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> OMG Alex just announced the release date!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is what I am going to say when they announce the release date, probably


Genuinely funny AND at the same time, sick!


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

filipjonathan said:


> Whyyy?!!!


It hurts me as much as it does you


----------



## I like music

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> It hurts me as much as it does you



A problem shared is a problem halved, they said.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Maybe it's time to lock this thread till there are some actual new developments.


----------



## Robo Rivard

No news is good news.


----------



## José Herring

After all this if CSW doesn't write its own arrangements and have my coffee ready in the morning, I'll be a bit disappointed.


----------



## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> After all this if CSW doesn't write its own arrangements and have my coffee ready in the morning, I'll be a bit disappointed.


The clarinet can never be as good as the one they named after you. Although I’ve never seen it poor me a coffee, come to think of it.


----------



## Thunderous Light

Saw this thread got my hopes up. *Looks* No release date......


----------



## purple

José Herring said:


> I think there could be improvements made in clarinet sampling to be honest. There are so many tones and articulations that can be explored. 4 or 5 different tongued articulations come to mind that I thought of when doing The Herring Clarinet but didn't do because it would have taken me months to record it all and probably even more years for Embertone to figure out how to script it all.
> 
> I think the future in sampling and taking it to the next level is a pretty simple one actually. Has nothing to do with technological advancements. It has everything to do with the performers and the samplist coming together to really explore how an instrumentalist achieves a musical expression and it what context.
> 
> But things like hairpins, slap tongues dah, tah, la tonguing are completely missing from 99.9% of the woodwind libraries out there.
> 
> For strings there was some attempt to do that with HS. I can tell. It lead to an unwieldy amount of patches and a totally confusing situation for the programmer. I think with expression maps though it could be managed easily though.
> 
> Whether or not a developer deems it worthy to do all that exploration is up for debate. But, we are beyond the time where sampling can be just the basic articulations done out of context.


 I think the future is more in the vein of sample modeling brass. Modeled instruments which have been recorded really well have a lot of potential. I think a lot of the issues people have with SM results from odd recording techniques, especially the horn which sounds like the mic was inside the bell.


----------



## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> The clarinet can never be as good as the one they named after you. Although I’ve never seen it poor me a coffee, come to think of it.


I had answered this but deleted because I misspoke in my text but I feel that it is important to address. 

There are a lot of improvements that can be done in woodwinds sampling. It is best that the sample developer consult with the actual player and ask the right questions. Not mundane questions either. But, articulations are best thought of in categories rather than as straight out of context articulations.

For example, go to a player and ask if you were performing the Mozart Flute Quartet, how would you articulate, stacc? The player would be like, "light and bouncy" or something similar to that. Now if you were performing the Rite of Spring? The stacc would be abrupt and bitey, ect...


The players don't know they do this generally. They pick it up after years of practice and forget. Kind of like Bruce Lee when he said, when he first learned how to kick a kick was a kick. Then he studied all different kinds of kicks. After that a kick was a kick. So a player won't necessarily know what kind of articulation they are using. A tongue is a tongue to them. But, get them to demonstrate how they would use tonguing in Mozart compared to Barktok and you'll get two different kinds of tonguing. Maybe not as simple as that because of course Barktok can be played as delicate as Mozart in some sections and Mozart as aggressive as Stravinsky ect. depending on the music, but generally they are two different styles of articulations even if you take into account Stravinsky's neo classical work which still is performed kind of in a modernist style.

It's not really "contextual" sampling but rather getting at the different ways that players express themselves to express music.

Right now, we use 10 different libraries hoping that each library has a slightly different approach to articulations that were captured. It isn't ideal really, but it is workable. I still remember the Ravel quartet Rob mocked up using about 3 or 4 different libraries some of which I would have never have guessed at, but that's part of the art of being a good mockup artist.

It would soon get unwieldy as the list of articulations would be long. But, I'd like to see up to 4 or 5 different staccs all about 8 dynamic layers each. 3 or 4 different tongued (what we call sustain) articulations about 5 to 6 dynamic layers ect... Slow "huff" or tongueless attacks, quick tongueless attacks, ect....When developers start thinking in that magnitude then they will start to approach what woodwinds are really capable of.


----------



## Beans

José Herring said:


> For example, go to a player and ask if you were performing the Mozart Flute Quartet, how would you articulate, stacc? The player would be like, "light and bouncy" or something similar to that. Now if you were performing the Rite of Spring? The stacc would be abrupt and bitey, ect...



Yes, and I appreciate it when patch names reflect this. If I recall right, some Spitfire libraries occasionally use names like that (like a "light and loose col leg" in Tundra). Blurring the lines between a legitimate technique name and a lay term description, especially where techniques are often subject to interpretation.


----------



## José Herring

Beans said:


> Yes, and I appreciate it when patch names reflect this. If I recall right, some Spitfire libraries occasionally use names like that (like a "light and loose col leg" in Tundra). Blurring the lines between a legitimate technique name and a lay term description, especially where techniques are often subject to interpretation.


This is something I need to do more research on. Libraries that were recorded with a specific type of performance in mind.


----------



## Kent

José Herring said:


> I had answered this but deleted because I misspoke in my text but I feel that it is important to address.
> 
> There are a lot of improvements that can be done in woodwinds sampling. It is best that the sample developer consult with the actual player and ask the right questions. Not mundane questions either. But, articulations are best thought of in categories rather than as straight out of context articulations.
> 
> For example, go to a player and ask if you were performing the Mozart Flute Quartet, how would you articulate, stacc? The player would be like, "light and bouncy" or something similar to that. Now if you were performing the Rite of Spring? The stacc would be abrupt and bitey, ect...
> 
> 
> The players don't know they do this generally. They pick it up after years of practice and forget. Kind of like Bruce Lee when he said, when he first learned how to kick a kick was a kick. Then he studied all different kinds of kicks. After that a kick was a kick. So a player won't necessarily know what kind of articulation they are using. A tongue is a tongue to them. But, get them to demonstrate how they would use tonguing in Mozart compared to Barktok and you'll get two different kinds of tonguing. Maybe not as simple as that because of course Barktok can be played as delicate as Mozart in some sections and Mozart as aggressive as Stravinsky ect. depending on the music, but generally they are two different styles of articulations even if you take into account Stravinsky's neo classical work which still is performed kind of in a modernist style.
> 
> It's not really "contextual" sampling but rather getting at the different ways that players express themselves to express music.
> 
> Right now, we use 10 different libraries hoping that each library has a slightly different approach to articulations that were captured. It isn't idea really, but it is workable. I still remember the Ravel quartet Rob mocked up using about 3 or 4 different libraries some of which I would have never have guessed at, but that's part of the art of being a good mockup artist.
> 
> It would soon get unwieldy as the list of articulations would be long. But, I'd like to see up to 4 or 5 different staccs all about 8 dynamic layers each. 3 or 4 different tongued (what we call sustain) articulations about 5 to 6 dynamic layers ect... Slow "huff" or tongueless attacks, quick tongueless attacks, ect....When developers start thinking in that magnitude then they will start to approach what woodwinds are really capable of.


This is great. I completely agree.


----------



## Casiquire

After all this time, why do new posts on this thread still get people's hopes up?!


----------



## Michael Stibor

Casiquire said:


> After all this time, why do new posts on this thread still get people's hopes up?!


Because one day, sometime in the future, and I’m not saying it’s tomorrow, or even the next day, or the day after that. But ONE DAY, all those false hopes that we’ve experienced throughout these dark times will turn into bright sunshines and new tomorrows. And we'll click on this thread cynically expecting it to be another funny man with their funny “gotchas”, but this time it will truly be... the announcement of Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Michael Stibor said:


> but this time it will truly be... the announcement of Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.


why did this give me goosebumps


----------



## muziksculp

Well, Alex W. informed us that he is in the polishing, and finalizing stages of CSW a week ago or so, I think we will see CSW released soon, maybe this month. He also will be updating the Legato system of his other libraries shortly after CSW is released. 

I'm just guessing that it will be a one negative delay value setting for all legatos. We shall see when he announces the updates after CSW is out. I would even suspect that CSW will have this new Legato feature.


----------



## purple

Based on all the stuff I'm hearing from this thread I am still optimistic that CSW _will_ certainly be released.


----------



## Geocranium

I like how the size of this thread topples the vast majority in this forum and it's about a product that _doesn't even exist yet and has had 0 marketing_


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Geocranium said:


> I like how the size of this thread topples the vast majority in this forum and it's about a product that _doesn't even exist yet and has had 0 marketing_


0 Marketing?? pshaa. What do you call this?


----------



## Michael Stibor

Geocranium said:


> I like how the size of this thread topples the vast majority in this forum and it's about a product that _doesn't even exist yet and has had 0 marketing_


Zero marketing. We don’t know what instruments are included, how much it will cost, or what it sounds like.

And yet, we all want it. What does that say about the quality of their products? Who needs marketing when you have a reputation for delivering virtual instruments that are among the best in the business (if not THE best), at rock bottom prices?

Consistently great products + reasonable pricing = brand loyalty. Now, if we can only get certain other companies who overhype and under deliver to realize this...


----------



## purple

Geocranium said:


> I like how the size of this thread topples the vast majority in this forum and it's about a product that _doesn't even exist yet and has had 0 marketing_


The marketing is them releasing consistently good products for years and having some of the best customer service and amazing pricing.


----------



## paulmatthew

This thread has been temporarily closed until further notice. Feel free to check out the ongoing thread about N.


----------



## Bluemount Score

purple said:


> The marketing is them releasing consistently good products for years and having some of the best customer service and amazing pricing.


Quality is the best marketing!


----------



## Bluemount Score

I'm gonna be that person who starts the Cinematic Studio Percussion pre-release thread at the same day CSW is getting released.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Bluemount Score said:


> I'm gonna be that person who starts the Cinematic Studio Percussion pre-release thread at the same day CSW is getting released.


Why wait........


----------



## Drundfunk

I think this library actually doesn't exist....like the moon.


----------



## Robert_G

Michael Stibor said:


> Now, if we can only get certain other companies who overhype and under deliver to realize this...



You wouldnt be talking about the company with the guy who starts every new product video with "Im really excited today"?


----------



## Michael Stibor

Robert_G said:


> You wouldnt be talking about the company with the guy who starts every new product video with "Im really excited today"?


I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## I like music

I swear, if I don't hear woodwind heavy compositions, mockups, and demos for the 6 months after this is released, I'm cursing you all to hell.

With this much excitement and demand on the forum, the BRAHHHMMS better take a backseat for a moment. Otherwise, we're all just GAS monkeys who like collecting shit.


----------



## awaey

Waiting for CSW = Waiting for Godot.....


----------



## Michael Stibor

I like music said:


> I swear, if I don't hear woodwind heavy compositions, mockups, and demos for the 6 months after this is released, I'm cursing you all to hell.
> 
> With this much excitement and demand on the forum, the BRAHHHMMS better take a backseat for a moment. Otherwise, we're all just GAS monkeys who like collecting shit.


Forty pages? C'mon, Spitfire could release Flautando Farts and it would hit over a hundred. This is modest overall.


----------



## I like music

Michael Stibor said:


> Forty pages? C'mon, Spitfire could release Flautando Farts and it would hit over a hundred. This is modest overall.


OK, you got me.


----------



## Robert_G

muziksculp said:


> Well, Alex W. informed us that he is in the polishing, and finalizing stages of CSW a week ago or so, I think we will see CSW released soon, maybe this month.



Everyone interprets 'time' differently in words like what you posted from Alex.

For me 'polishing' and 'final stages' mean like putting the icing on a cake.....you know....like finishing it the that afternoon.

Obviously, for Alex it means something different. I wonder what Alex's interpretation of 'polishing' and 'final stages' mean? They are sure different than my interpretation.


----------



## Michael Stibor

I remember last time with CSB, Alex mentioning that he was just awaiting final approval (if that’s the right term) from Native Instruments and that it would be a couple weeks from there, so it’s probably still weeks away. Wasn’t CSB released on the fall too?


----------



## jamwerks

I really have high hopes for this new library. Wonder who will make it out first, this or Century WW's (or maybe a SF BBC WW's Pro?)?

I'm also curious to see if anyone decided to go the extra mile and do 4 velocity layers (instead of the usual 2-3) for at least some of the instruments?


----------



## Robert_G

jamwerks said:


> I really have high hopes for this new library. Wonder who will make it out first, this or Century WW's (or maybe a SF BBC WW's Pro?)?



I don't think 8dio Century WWs have even been confirmed yet. Only their WW Ostinatos are for sure.


----------



## muziksculp

I have a feeling CSWW will be released this month, but that's a pure, and wild guess.

Meanwhile, for those who are desperately waiting for its release, what woodwind libraries are you using at this time ? and what are your expectations about CSWW ?


----------



## Robert_G

muziksculp said:


> Meanwhile, for those who are desperately waiting for its release, what woodwind libraries are you using at this time ? and what are your expectations about CSWW ?



It's kind of sad actually.
Oboe, Bassoon, and Alto flute from Symphobia 3 Lumina
Flute from VSL Kontakt library
Clarinet and Piccolo from Spitfire Studio Woodwinds although I try to avoid that library like the plague.


----------



## Michael Stibor

muziksculp said:


> I have a feeling CSWW will be released this month, but that's a pure, and wild guess.
> 
> Meanwhile, for those who are desperately waiting for its release, what woodwind libraries are you using at this time ? and what are your expectations about CSWW ?


Great question. I’m using VSL Synchron winds, the 8DIO Claire Flute, herring clarinet, Popelka bassoon, and sometimes (but rarely) Spitfire Studio woodwinds.
VSL gets the most use out of the bunch.

As for what I’m expecting, I’m expecting Alex and his team to get woodwinds right, and at a reasonable price. I’m expecting there to be the usual flexibility with mic placement. I expect the legatos to be to be top notch, and their shorts to be exquisite. I expect it to sound perfectly in a mix, especially when used with the other cinematic instruments. I’m sure there’s more expectations that I have but that’s all I have for now.


----------



## Drundfunk

muziksculp said:


> I have a feeling CSWW will be released this month, but that's a pure, and wild guess.
> 
> Meanwhile, for those who are desperately waiting for its release, what woodwind libraries are you using at this time ? and what are your expectations about CSWW ?


I don't use woodwinds. Who am I? Mozart?! I'll buy this solely to brag.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Aside from a few single instruments (VSL). The BEST wds library to date IMHO is Berlin. Their add-on solo series is also quite good. For me, anything in the future, is measured against them. Beat that benchmark and well, it's going to be good ladies and gentlemen.


----------



## ethormusic

Honestly for those who are frustrated about getting notifications from this forum and not hearing much news about when CSW will be released, don't expect there to be an actual official release date. One day this fall or early winter AW is gonna send an email to all who have purchased one of the other libraries from the Cinematic Studio Series that it's been released and upload his walkthrough and demo videos on youtube. If there's one thing we know with AW, it's that he's consistent, and his CSW will be consistently top notch with the rest of the series.


----------



## purple

Robert_G said:


> Everyone interprets 'time' differently in words like what you posted from Alex.
> 
> For me 'polishing' and 'final stages' mean like putting the icing on a cake.....you know....like finishing it the that afternoon.
> 
> Obviously, for Alex it means something different. I wonder what Alex's interpretation of 'polishing' and 'final stages' mean? They are sure different than my interpretation.


We should email him again and ask


----------



## Robert_G

purple said:


> We should email him again and ask



We might have to. I dont think 500 emails a week from us is enough


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

purple said:


> We should email him again and ask


The CSW is so late because of your emails because Alex spends too much time reading your stupid questions. Calm down already! Don't distract the person.


----------



## I like music

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that CSW existed.


----------



## purple

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> The CSW is so late because of your emails because Alex spends too much time reading your stupid questions. Calm down already! Don't distract the person.


Relax, it was only a joke! I haven't emailed him about it yet myself and don't plan to.


----------



## Robert_G

*looks around*

Anybody.....something?

*runs*


----------



## Bluemount Score

I bet it will be the best release of the series yet because

- I believe that the mid-rangy room tone will treat winds better than brass and strings (lack of low end and very high sizzle is probably not that big of a deal)
- we already heard that it will be the biggest of the libraries so far
- alex has even more experience than before


----------



## pawelmorytko

I also think it will do well because it won't be suffocated by the room as much as the brass. That's the only problem with the cinematic studio series/trackdown, the bass is really lacking in the low range instruments because of the room. But hopefully the woodwinds will be okay


----------



## Bluemount Score

pawelmorytko said:


> I also think it will do well because it won't be suffocated by the room as much as the brass. That's the only problem with the cinematic studio series/trackdown, the bass is really lacking in the low range instruments because of the room. But hopefully the woodwinds will be okay


Needs more sub in that piccolo!!!


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Ah. I was wondering when this thread would get resurrected. It is almost Spooky Season, after all...


----------



## ricoderks

Bluemount Score said:


> Needs more sub in that piccolo!!!


Just use a contrabass piccolo!


----------



## coprhead6

ricoderks said:


> Just use a contrabass piccolo!



You mean an alto flute?


----------



## Bluemount Score

ricoderks said:


> Just use a contrabass piccolo!


I think we need an octobass piccolo for that


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

View attachment New video.mp4


----------



## Bluemount Score

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> View attachment New video.mp4


Imagine if you started recording this video, already planned the joke, but at this exact moment the library got released.


----------



## Peter Satera

I'm thinking if picking up CSB with 30% off as I have CSS. However, im likely to get CSW too, do you all think its cheaper to get them together or just pick up the brass now?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Peter Satera said:


> I'm thinking if picking up CSB with 30% off as I have CSS. However, im likely to get CSW too, do you all think its cheaper to get them together or just pick up the brass now?


You would get a discount on both i think. I'm also curious if CSS and CSB owners get a discount on the old CS2 at all or if it's just the other way round.


----------



## pawelmorytko

NeonMediaKJT said:


> You would get a discount on both i think. I'm also curious if CSS and CSB owners get a discount on the old CS2 at all or if it's just the other way round.


You do  I recently got the same loyalty discount on CS2 as a CSS owner


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

pawelmorytko said:


> You do  I recently got the same loyalty discount on CS2 as a CSS owner


Ohhh boyyyy


----------



## purple

Peter Satera said:


> I'm thinking if picking up CSB with 30% off as I have CSS. However, im likely to get CSW too, do you all think its cheaper to get them together or just pick up the brass now?


You should receive a code for each for being an owner of CSS. I don't think they do package deals or anything but you get 30% off any of them for having any of them.


----------



## Peter Satera

purple said:


> You should receive a code for each for being an owner of CSS. I don't think they do package deals or anything but you get 30% off any of them for having any of them.



Ahh I see! It also looks like discounts on other products are the same too, 30% when I put something in my cart. So it seems to make no difference then, now or later.


----------



## NoamL

That's right. They're one of the best developers for consistent, non-expiring loyalty discounts.


----------



## BassClef

They are a very good company. I bought the full Cinematic Studio package last November on sale. The deal was for 25% off of the first item and then the 30% loyalty discount on everything else. Actually they gave me the piano for FREE for ordering strings, solo strings and brass all at once.


----------



## Robert_G

So they were on the 'final' polishing stages over 2 weeks ago...not the 'main' polishing stages....but the 'final' polishing stages. How long do 'final' polishing stages take? I'm going to be dead before this gets released.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Robert_G said:


> How long do 'final' polishing stages take?


yes


----------



## Guffy

Robert_G said:


> So they were on the 'final' polishing stages over 2 weeks ago...not the 'main' polishing stages....but the 'final' polishing stages. How long do 'final' polishing stages take? I'm going to be dead before this gets released.


According to Nashville Strings, anywhere between next week to December 2040.


----------



## purple

Peter Satera said:


> Ahh I see! It also looks like discounts on other products are the same too, 30% when I put something in my cart. So it seems to make no difference then, now or later.


You also can get a retroactive code if you ask their customer service. I was able to get $100 off on CSSS despite the fact that I had only bought CSS about a year after they were both out. They also offered me a deal on CSP which I don't need yet but will use when I do.


----------



## purple

Robert_G said:


> So they were on the 'final' polishing stages over 2 weeks ago...not the 'main' polishing stages....but the 'final' polishing stages. How long do 'final' polishing stages take? I'm going to be dead before this gets released.


They've still got the "absolute final polishing" and "pre-relase polishing" and "final delivery polishing" stages to go!


----------



## Michael Stibor

Robert_G said:


> So they were on the 'final' polishing stages over 2 weeks ago...not the 'main' polishing stages....but the 'final' polishing stages. How long do 'final' polishing stages take? I'm going to be dead before this gets released.


At this point, it doesn’t matter. I’ve started saving into a basic savings account so that I can eventually buy my own piccolo, flute, oboe, clarinet, and bassoon. I’ll start taking lessons so that I can master each instrument shortly after that (once I’ve learned how to read music of course). 

So while I know we can’t advertise our services on this forum, get ready guys. I’m accepting preorders on my live studio recordings of all your woodwind needs. I should be up and running way before CSW will ever come out.


----------



## muziksculp

The Cinematic Studio Series Website seems to be down, I get a security alert when I go to the site. 

Could it be they are uploading something interesting  or is it just a website issue/maintenance ?

https://cinematicstudioseries.com/


----------



## lgmcben

muziksculp said:


> The Cinematic Studio Series Website seems to be down, I get a security alert when I go to the site.
> 
> Could it be they are uploading something interesting  or is it just a website issue/maintenance ?
> 
> https://cinematicstudioseries.com/


Sorry to crush your hope but it's just an expired ssl certificate. Most likely this has nothing todo with uploading new content.


----------



## VSriHarsha

When will it be out?


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

VSriHarsha said:


> When will it be out?


tomorrow maybe? Maybe not? ...buy maybe


----------



## jimjazzuk

The amount of hours I've spent looking at woodwind libraries, almost buying them, and then holding off for this one... I could've been on my 5th symphony by now!


----------



## VSriHarsha

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> tomorrow maybe? Maybe not? ...buy maybe


Lol!


----------



## ethormusic

jimjazzuk said:


> The amount of hours I've spent looking at woodwind libraries, almost buying them, and then holding off for this one... I could've been on my 5th symphony by now!


lol the libraries I've gotten over the last few years have given me little satisfaction while I've been waiting for CSW to be released. I don't want to say I've wasted my money on certain libraries but I've kept myself from buying anything else until CSW is released. I can still use my other woodwind libraries to help beef up woodwind runs as needed, since those are difficult to make sound realistic (unless of course AW has been spending extra time getting in good scripting for woodwind runs built-into the library... that would be killer).


----------



## VSriHarsha

jimjazzuk said:


> The amount of hours I've spent looking at woodwind libraries, almost buying them, and then holding off for this one... I could've been on my 5th symphony by now!


You wrote Symphonies?


----------



## jaketanner

We are all waiting for CSW...but is it because we think the price will be reasonable, or because we truly believe it's going to be better than OT, or VSL? Because those are some serious shoes to fill...I think they have the best winds out there so far. Personally I am waiting on Century Winds...I think 8dio does winds right. But as of right now, there ARE usable wind libraries...this is not going to change the game I don't think. It may be great for sure...but the pressure on CS to make these winds live up to the hype they're getting might be what's delaying them LOL


----------



## I like music

jaketanner said:


> We are all waiting for CSW...but is it because we think the price will be reasonable, or because we truly believe it's going to be better than OT, or VSL? Because those are some serious shoes to fill...I think they have the best winds out there so far. Personally I am waiting on Century Winds...I think 8dio does winds right. But as of right now, there ARE usable wind libraries...this is not going to change the game I don't think. It may be great for sure...but the pressure on CS to make these winds live up to the hype they're getting might be what's delaying them LOL



I expect for many people it would be about getting really consistent patches that also fit sonically very well with the other cinematic series sections.

Edit - and yes, price point especially given how expensive Berlin is.


----------



## Beans

As much as I keep trying to stick with EWHO Brass or Infinite Brass, CSB keeps creeping back in. That's why I'm interested in CSW.

I'm also weak-ish on woodwinds. EWHO, BBCSO Pro, and Spitfire Symphony. Oh, and Infinite Woodwinds, but I'm waiting for the update to try again.

I'd like some well QA'd patches and solo options with a smaller room sound.


----------



## jaketanner

I like music said:


> I expect for many people it would be about getting really consistent patches that also fit sonically very well with the other cinematic series sections.
> 
> Edit - and yes, price point especially given how expensive Berlin is.


I think the consistent space is true...but wondering how well that space they have is going to be for winds. Also OT will eventually port over the winds to be sold individually...making them much more affordable I think.


----------



## jaketanner

Beans said:


> I'm also weak-ish on woodwinds. EWHO, BBCSO Pro


I can understand EW winds being weak for sure, but BBCSO is pretty decent...VSL Synchronized is definitely great also, but pricey compared to CSW...well...actually it's speculation. We don't really know what price they will be at. I'd image not less than the brass if this is their largest library.


----------



## I like music

jaketanner said:


> I think the consistent space is true...but wondering how well that space they have is going to be for winds. Also OT will eventually port over the winds to be sold individually...making them much more affordable I think.


Fair points! I think the a la carte option from Berlin is going to put a big dent in many a plan.


----------



## purple

jaketanner said:


> We are all waiting for CSW...but is it because we think the price will be reasonable, or because we truly believe it's going to be better than OT, or VSL? Because those are some serious shoes to fill...I think they have the best winds out there so far. Personally I am waiting on Century Winds...I think 8dio does winds right. But as of right now, there ARE usable wind libraries...this is not going to change the game I don't think. It may be great for sure...but the pressure on CS to make these winds live up to the hype they're getting might be what's delaying them LOL


Yeah, but the woodwinds currently available are the weakest section of the orchestra. CSS and CSB and CSSS have so far beaten out every other workhorse so I have no reason to believe CSW won't be as good or better than these others and will cost way less.


----------



## shponglefan

purple said:


> I have no reason to believe CSW won't be as good or better than these others



I dunno, it feels like there is so much anticipation and hype for CSW that there is no way it's going to live up to expectations.

I suspect that inflated expectations around here will inevitably lead to disappointment.


----------



## Casiquire

jaketanner said:


> I can understand EW winds being weak for sure, but BBCSO is pretty decent...VSL Synchronized is definitely great also, but pricey compared to CSW...well...actually it's speculation. We don't really know what price they will be at. I'd image not less than the brass if this is their largest library.





purple said:


> Yeah, but the woodwinds currently available are the weakest section of the orchestra. CSS and CSB and CSSS have so far beaten out every other workhorse so I have no reason to believe CSW won't be as good or better than these others and will cost way less.




Synchronized Winds aren't more expensive than CSS or CSB


----------



## Drundfunk

shponglefan said:


> I dunno, it feels like there is so much anticipation and hype for CSW that there is no way it's going to live up to expectations.
> 
> I suspect that inflated expectations around here will inevitably lead to disappointment.


NOOOOOOOOOO! Just by saying that you single-handedly delayed the release of CSW for another year. Now Alex will lock himself in his room again, full of self-doubt, and will meticulously tweak every single sample again and again until those dark thoughts vanished from his mind...... . What have you done?!


----------



## jaketanner

Casiquire said:


> Synchronized Winds aren't more expensive than CSS or CSB


True...$379 at Sweetwater.


----------



## Robert_G

Anyone got updated knowledge on a release date? Its been in the 'final polishing' stage for months.


----------



## I like music

Robert_G said:


> Anyone got updated knowledge on a release date? Its been in the 'final polishing' stage for months.


Either on a weekday or a weekend, that's the latest from Alex. 😂


----------



## jaketanner

purple said:


> Yeah, but the woodwinds currently available are the weakest section of the orchestra


Not sure I agree...they may be the least talked about, but the ones available are not weak. OT, VSL and even the SFA winds are not really all that bad. OT I think being the best, then VSL currently. And I am certain that once 8dio released Century winds, they will be up there are well...CSW might be great, but there is also so much that can be done if they want to keep a reasonable price point. I can't imagine CSW having all solo instruments for winds, plus ensembles plus runs patches or whatever for the same price point as their other libraries. Seems like asking for a lot...now if it's priced higher, and they included all the instruments we asked for, then I can see it being the go to...or maybe they will split it up like they did with the strings...ensembles + solos.


----------



## eli0s

I hope that this long delay will signify not only the arrival of a stellar product (the woodwinds), but also some overall improvements throughout the Cinematic Studio Series products (and perhaps the addition of a Solo Double Bass )


----------



## Michael Stibor

jaketanner said:


> We are all waiting for CSW...but is it because we think the price will be reasonable, or because we truly believe it's going to be better than OT, or VSL?


I feel that Cinematic Studio seems to get my needs perfectly in terms of price, instrument selection, and articulations. There’s no excess fluff which keeps the price down, and everything sounds top notch. Though there are some sounds that are not always perfect for my music (IE I prefer a more subdued trumpet sound). And of course, the legatos. I haven’t heard anyone that can do it as good as them. So yeah, I’m excited.


----------



## Patrick.K

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I get the feeling that some people are actually more interested in buying stuff and parking their money somewhere than actually using products and making music.
> [/
> 
> I think the same thing, we have entered a dark period, uncertain times, I have the impression that everything is wrong, people are sad, too many disasters in addition to the You in the US have been hit hard by the fires, now the political uncertainties ...
> and in France, it is not really better with after the drought. the dramatic floods ...the Covid which is gaining ground again !.
> So Michel not mine to buy libraries and make Music the Covid which is gaining ground again...


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Can we just take a moment to acknowledge the true villain of the piece








@Kony


----------



## Kony

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Can we just take a moment to acknowledge the true villain of the piece
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Kony


Guilty as charged! I started this thread around the time CSB was released


----------



## Drundfunk

I'm already looking forward to the "Cinematic Studio Percussion?"-Thread. Not gonna lie.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Drundfunk said:


> I'm already looking forward to the "Cinematic Studio Percussion?"-Thread. Not gonna lie.


We are about to get the most pure snare legato in sampling history


----------



## Rob Elliott

eli0s said:


> I hope that this long delay will signify not only the arrival of a stellar product (the woodwinds), but also some overall improvements throughout the Cinematic Studio Series products (and perhaps the addition of a Solo Double Bass )


A solo double bass would be wonderful!


----------



## ethormusic

jaketanner said:


> We are all waiting for CSW...but is it because we think the price will be reasonable, or because we truly believe it's going to be better than OT, or VSL?


I just want my woodwinds to sound like they're in the same room as CSS, CSSS, and CSB. Plenty of libraries have pretty good legatos but the biggest advantage with Cinematic Studio Series is that the delay when playing legato is the same between brass and strings (on standard legato) and the Woodwinds will likely have that similar delay which I am now so used to. I also benefit from Cinematic Studio Series having all the articulations mapped to CC assignments, which helped me quickly make TouchOSC pages for Strings, Brass, and when the time comes, making a page for Woodwinds will take virtually no time at all.


----------



## jaketanner

ethormusic said:


> I just want my woodwinds to sound like they're in the same room as CSS, CSSS, and CSB. Plenty of libraries have pretty good legatos but the biggest advantage with Cinematic Studio Series is that the delay when playing legato is be same between brass and strings (on standard legato) Woodwinds will likely have that similar delay which I am now so used to. I also benefit from Cinematic Studio Series having all the articulations mapped to CC assignments, which helped me quickly make TouchOSC pages for Strings, Brass, and when the time comes, making a page for Woodwinds will take virtually no time at all.


good points.


----------



## Bluemount Score

It's not released yet. Just thought it would be a good idea to inform you all about that.


----------



## Eptesicus

Bluemount Score said:


> It's not released yet. Just thought it would be a good idea to inform you all about that.



You monster.


----------



## filipjonathan

Bluemount Score said:


> It's not released yet. Just thought it would be a good idea to inform you all about that.


Thanks! I was wondering what was going on but didn't wanna be the guy 😂


----------



## MarcHedenberg

It was never about the library coming out. It was about the friends we made along the way.

(proceeds to puke from generic cliche)


----------



## I like music

MarcHedenberg said:


> It was never about the library coming out. It was about the friends we made along the way.
> 
> (proceeds to puke from generic cliche)



By the time this comes out, it'll include all the kids, grandkids and memories we made along the way, too!


----------



## Michael Stibor

I counted. Spitfire has released exactly 386 “game changers” since this thread started. Let’s get them to 400!


----------



## mojamusic

Michael Stibor said:


> I counted. Spitfire has released exactly 386 “game changers” since this thread started. Let’s get them to 400!



You have to admit they have figured it out... They have an incredible marketing strategy AND the instruments are fantastic. I'm always intrigued.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Michael Stibor said:


> I counted. Spitfire has released exactly 386 “game changers” since this thread started. Let’s get them to 400!


Are the "next chapters" included in your "game changer" count or do you have them separately?


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Michael Stibor said:


> I counted. Spitfire has released exactly 386 “game changers” since this thread started. Let’s get them to 400!


"Game changers" in capital quotes lol


----------



## RogiervG

mojamusic said:


> You have to admit they have figured it out... They have an incredible marketing strategy AND the instruments are fantastic. I'm always intrigued.



correction: "are _marketed_ as fantastic".


----------



## mojamusic

RogiervG said:


> correction: "are _marketed_ as fantastic".



Fair enough!


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

f*ck y'all -let's lock this thread finally


----------



## RogiervG

DarkestShadow said:


> f*ck y'all -let's lock this thread finally



correction: "let's rock this thread"


----------



## Michael Stibor

mojamusic said:


> You have to admit they have figured it out... They have an incredible marketing strategy AND the instruments are fantastic. I'm always intrigued.


I’ll admit to the part about them being masters of marketing.


----------



## rmak

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? are the winds here yet?

I’ve been reading about rule of thirds recently.


----------



## Yogevs

It is crazy to me this thread is 44 pages long.
Personally I would be much more excited about an Audio Imperia woodwinds library


----------



## Beans

This thread is pretty difficult to dig through. Is there any *official *information on timing for this library?


----------



## Scalms

Here’s my email response from Alex from my Oct29th inquiry...

“We've been working hard and CSW is definitely in the final stages of development - we're hoping to have it finished before the end of the year. I'm sorry but I'm not able to give a date yet.”

So there you go, start taking out your credit cards...


----------



## Michael Stibor

Scalms said:


> “...we're hoping to have it finished before the end of the year. I'm sorry but I'm not able to give a date yet.”


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

He probably hired someone just to respond to CSW questions. Thus there is no money for re-recordings and it's gonna come out in a half year


----------



## Manaberry

Scalms said:


> “*We*'ve been working hard and CSW is definite*l*y in the f*i*nal stag*e*s of *d*evelopment - we're hoping to h*a*ve it finished *b*ef*o*re the end of the year. I'm sorry b*ut* I'm not able to g*i*ve a date ye*t*.”




My Hidden Messages & Language Expert Department has found the true meaning of this message. I'm sorry guys but actually, it does say: "We lied about it."


----------



## Simon Schrenk

Scalms said:


> Here’s my email response from Alex from my Oct29th inquiry...
> 
> “We've been working hard and CSW is definitely in the final stages of development - we're hoping to have it finished before the end of the year. I'm sorry but I'm not able to give a date yet.”
> 
> So there you go, start taking out your credit cards...


deja vu from last year ^^


----------



## Scalms

Simon Schrenk said:


> deja vu from last year ^^



sorry, yeah, forgot to mention it was from my Oct 29th, _2019_ inquiry


----------



## pawelmorytko

DarkestShadow said:


> He probably hired someone just to respond to CSW questions. Thus there is no money for re-recordings and it's gonna come out in a half year


Poor John from Cinematic Studios customer support...



Yogevs said:


> Personally I would be much more excited about an Audio Imperia woodwinds library


What I'd really be interested to see is Jasper Blunk/Performance Samples do a woodwinds library


----------



## purple

I wonder if I could create a cult around the release of CSW and get people to perform rituals to try and conjure it into existence


----------



## Bluemount Score

purple said:


> I wonder if I could create a cult around the release of CSW and get people to perform rituals to try and conjure it into existence


I'm interested. Where can I join?


----------



## Grilled Cheese

Scalms said:


> Here’s my email response from Alex from my Oct29th inquiry...
> 
> “We've been working hard and CSW is definitely in the final stages of development - we're *hoping* to have it finished before the end of the year...”
> 
> So there you go, start taking out your credit cards...


When I hear a developer use the word “hoping” in relation to a product launch date, I immediately translate that to “not expecting”. 

I’m hoping I am wrong.


----------



## Bluemount Score

chrispire said:


> When I hear a developer use the word “hoping” in relation to a product launch date, I immediately translate that to “not expecting”.
> 
> I’m hoping I am wrong.


So you are not expecting to be wrong?


----------



## Grilled Cheese

Bluemount Score said:


> So you are not expecting to be wrong?


Exactly. Irony intended.


----------



## axb312

Scalms said:


> sorry, yeah, forgot to mention it was from my Oct 29th, _2019_ inquiry



Really?


----------



## Scalms

axb312 said:


> Really?


joking actually, it was from just a couple days ago


----------



## Bluemount Score

Scalms said:


> joking actually, it was from just a couple days ago


It still says a lot that we believed you


----------



## gohrev

It's done when it's done. Stellar team with excellent support and a great product. We have every reason to believe it will be worth the wait.


----------



## purple

berlin87 said:


> It's done when it's done. Stellar team with excellent support and a great product. We have every reason to believe it will be worth the wait.


It's done when enough of us email Alex asking him for it


----------



## ricoderks

pawelmorytko said:


> Poor John from Cinematic Studios customer support...
> 
> 
> What I'd really be interested to see is Jasper Blunk/Performance Samples do a woodwinds library


Both! Totally worth both. Hands down!


----------



## JeffvR

Still nothing? Maybe they can hire some folks from Spitfire. They know how to release 1000 libraries a year.


----------



## yiph2

JeffvR said:


> Still nothing? Maybe they can hire some folks from Spitfire. They know how to release 1000 libraries a year.


I swear OT released more than Spitfire this year


----------



## Casiquire

Scalms said:


> joking actually, it was from just a couple days ago


Oh i literally believed it


----------



## purple

I have a good feeling it will release tomorrow.


----------



## axb312

purple said:


> I have a good feeling it will release tomorrow.



based on?


----------



## Beans

Nah, HOOPUS will come out tomorrow.


----------



## BassClef

purple said:


> I have a good feeling it will release tomorrow.



I heard... 10:00am pacific time.


----------



## purple

axb312 said:


> based on?


I swear, I saw a "cinematic studio woodwinds" banner appear in my KONTAKT instrument browser. May have just been a dream.


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Gosh darn it, why did you revive this thread??!! Arrrgh!!

Also, that claim that it's coming out tomorrow:

It's either BS, and you're just messing with us,

Or it's true, and you're saying it to make us _think_ you're lying, but then tomorrow comes around, and - surprise, surprise! It's actually arrived!

Either way: no fair. 😭😭😭


----------



## Kony

I also heard a rumour that it's going to be released tomorrow.


----------



## Yogevs

OH MY GOD IT'S RELEASED!


----------



## Gingerbread

Yogevs said:


> OH MY GOD IT'S RELEASED!


Good god, it's $1,100. And no bassoon??


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Kony said:


> I also heard a rumour that it's going to be released tomorrow.


I heard a rumour that that rumour is false.


----------



## mybadmemory

Gingerbread said:


> Good god, it's $1,100. And no bassoon??



I think you misread. It’s apparently $11,000 and ONLY bassoon!


----------



## I like music

mybadmemory said:


> I think you misread. It’s apparently $11,000 and ONLY bassoon!



Australian dollars though, so a quite a bit more reasonable than you're making it out to be.


----------



## Kony

hbjdk said:


> I heard a rumour that that rumour is false.


But I heard it from @purple


----------



## purple

I like music said:


> Australian dollars though, so a quite a bit more reasonable than you're making it out to be.


What is that, about $14.90 U.S.?


----------



## purple

Yogevs said:


> OH MY GOD IT'S RELEASED!


Told you guys!


----------



## I like music

purple said:


> What is that, about $14.90 U.S.?


Starting a war now mate.


----------



## FinGael

mybadmemory said:


> I think you misread. It’s apparently $11,000 and ONLY bassoon!



Yuuup. Only bassoon, but there will be DOZENS (or was it hundreds?) of expansions coming, only $47 (48 was reserved to 8DIo and 49 to Spitfire...) a pop.

just heard that the first nine will be flutes: expansion pack 1 flute longs(!), expansion pack 2 flute staccatos(!) etc. Exciting times!

In 2022 they are planning to release the PRO exp packs: with a totally overrated legato and and a random room generator! (only $147 per pack)

<3


----------



## Jaap

My heart can't handle this....


----------



## JeffvR

It's coming...


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Okay, but, actually, though?

Just checked the CSS website, and I think we just got a possible time frame for release, and it may very well be within a month.


----------



## Drundfunk

Tinesaeriel said:


> Okay, but, actually, though?
> 
> Just checked the CSS website, and I think we just got a possible time frame for release, and it may very well be within a month.


That's a ballsy prediction! I mean they kinda have the whole rest of the year to release it and to stay true to their word, and you think it will be released within a month?!


----------



## Eptesicus

I just hope it is out before Christmas as it would make a nice Christmas present for me :D

Never know what to ask for, so this would fit the bill nicely.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Surprising everyone, they will release Woodwinds and Percussion at the same time here in 2020  

That's why it's taken so long. We're gonna get it all!


----------



## purple

JeffvR said:


> It's coming...


I heard somewhere there is a cheat code you can enter and it lets you click the greyed out libraries there


----------



## Raphioli

purple said:


> I heard somewhere there is a cheat code you can enter and it lets you click the greyed out libraries there



Yeah, I think I've heard that too. Think it goes something like, 
Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A


----------



## I like music

Clicking this in 3 ... 2 ... 1


----------



## filipjonathan

Raphioli said:


> Yeah, I think I've heard that too. Think it goes something like,
> Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A


Wait, I've tried it like 5 times, what am I doing wrong??!!!


----------



## FinGael

purple said:


> I heard somewhere there is a cheat code you can enter and it lets you click the greyed out libraries there



I heard it's for V7P customers only.


----------



## EgM

filipjonathan said:


> Wait, I've tried it like 5 times, what am I doing wrong??!!!



You need a Game Genie for it to work


----------



## filipjonathan

EgM said:


> You need a Game Genie for it to work


ahh...gotcha!


----------



## Go To 11

Raphioli said:


> Yeah, I think I've heard that too. Think it goes something like,
> Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A


Man I haven't seen that typed out in decades... Goldeneye anyone?


----------



## Saxer

Nobody will ever buy this library because nobody will believe that it's out when it's out.


----------



## Rob Elliott

BassClef said:


> I heard... 10:00am pacific time.


Source?


----------



## Yogevs

Tinesaeriel said:


> Okay, but, actually, though?
> 
> Just checked the CSS website, and I think we just got a possible time frame for release, and it may very well be within a month.



So weird to give such a heads up


----------



## ZenFaced

Yogevs said:


> So weird to give such a heads up



Hmmmmm.........


----------



## cqd

I don't think that's a heads up.. they do a sale every year..


----------



## Yogevs

cqd said:


> I don't think that's a heads up.. they do a sale every year..



Saying on November 9th that there's a 25% discount starting November 23rd means dead two weeks for them. So that's why.


----------



## Kurosawa

Yogevs said:


> Saying on November 9th that there's a 25% discount starting November 23rd means dead two weeks for them. So that's why.



That's really weird.


----------



## Fry777

They do this heads up every year as far as I remember. They don't want people to buy the libs full price mere days before a sale


----------



## Kurosawa

Sadly no 50%


----------



## RogiervG

here is a snipped from john in a response i got today.
".... and we're drawing towards the finish. We will indeed be very happy when it's out! We are trying very, very hard to make it before the end of the year. ...."


----------



## Yogevs

RogiervG said:


> here is a snipped from john in a response i got today.
> ".... and we're drawing towards the finish. We will indeed be very happy when it's out! We are trying very, very hard to make it before the end of the year. ...."



So tomorrow?


----------



## RogiervG

if tomorrow is mid december, then yes... 

but then again, it might be end of november too... 

whichever it is, they are trying really hard and are nearly there.


----------



## Gingerbread

RogiervG said:


> here is a snipped from john in a response i got today.
> ".... and we're drawing towards the finish. We will indeed be very happy when it's out! We are trying very, very hard to make it before the end of the year. ...."


If they're admitting it will be a struggle to get it out before January 1st, then the idea it will be out in November is absurd. At best, it will be released around Christmas. At _best_. 

More likely after the new year.


----------



## RogiervG

Gingerbread said:


> If they're admitting it will be a struggle to get it out before January 1st, then the idea it will be out in November is absurd. At best, it will be released around Christmas. At _best_.
> 
> More likely after the new year.


Ofcourse, they won't do november, i know that. I was just playing a tease here.
Hence i said mid december (as first realistic time indication), meaning nearing 20th dec and upwards.
but it might just as well be somewhere later...


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Gingerbread said:


> More likely after the new year.


Cool. I'll be tuning out the nonsense until then.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Wasn't that what they said _last_ year also? "We hope to have it out by the end of the year" ?


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

They deserve the Spitfire style hype. Their commercial thread better be 1000 pages long...


----------



## Rob Elliott

Gingerbread said:


> If they're admitting it will be a struggle to get it out before January 1st, then the idea it will be out in November is absurd. At best, it will be released around Christmas. At _best_.
> 
> More likely after the new year.


Yep


----------



## prodigalson

I have a hunch it'll be out early December. Based on absolutely nothing bar the flimsy data point that CSB was released in December 2018...


----------



## Pantonal

Didn't we see information it would be released around New Years 2020 (a year ago) and haven't we been expecting this library since 2018, maybe earlier? I'm as anxious as anyone else, and I will buy this the moment I can, but... it better be absolutely bulletproof. Otherwise why the long wait?


----------



## ansthenia

Pantonal said:


> Otherwise why the long wait?



Covid has delayed quite a few things.


----------



## Jay Panikkar

Just bought it and I have to say I'm disappointed. The legatos are not as good as I expected and the shorts are all over the place. The velocity layers are kinda wonky. The sustains are good, but there's no vibrato control.









































I'm not talking about Cinematic Studio Woodwinds, of course.


----------



## ethormusic

ansthenia said:


> Covid has delayed quite a few things.


For AW and team it's been COVID plus the bushfires they had last year in Australia that have resulted in the longer-than-planned development time.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

ansthenia said:


> Covid has delayed quite a few things.


+i was chatting with Alex and apparently the bushfires we had in Australia months back directly affected them as well.


----------



## Bluemount Score

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> +i was chatting with Alex and apparently the bushfires we had in Australia months back directly affected them as well.


Not only woods, but also woodwinds burn well, apparently

Just one more reason to assume CSW will be fire


----------



## BassClef

Burning woodwinds... a horrible sight!


----------



## purple

I think my original prediction was off because I had the date mixed up with how timezones work and all. Surely the "good feeling" I had really meant tomorrow. So everyone get excited, it's releasing tomorrow.


----------



## Allegro

Bluemount Score said:


> Not only woods, but also woodwinds burn well, apparently


Eric Persing from Spectrasonics would know. Could very well be their intro patch for Omnisphere 3


----------



## Robert_G

Gingerbread said:


> If they're admitting it will be a struggle to get it out before January 1st, then the idea it will be out in November is absurd. At best, it will be released around Christmas. At _best_.
> 
> More likely after the new year.



When they they said last fall it would be out in late winter 2020, I skipped buying a woodwinds lib on BF/Christmas 2019 being under the impression of a short wait. If I had known that it would be realistically Spring 2021 or later, I would have bought something else already. I won't be making that mistake this year. If OT or VSL puts on a super good WW sale this BF or Christmas....they'll get my money instead.


----------



## jaketanner

Robert_G said:


> If OT or VSL puts on a super good WW sale this BF or Christmas....they'll get my money instead.


You literally just missed a killer sale from VSL.


----------



## Toecutter

Robert_G said:


> When they they said last fall it would be out in late winter 2020, I skipped buying a woodwinds lib on BF/Christmas 2019 being under the impression of a short wait. If I had known that it would be realistically Spring 2021 or later, I would have bought something else already. I won't be making that mistake this year. If OT or VSL puts on a super good WW sale this BF or Christmas....they'll get my money instead.



Similar situation here. I've been holding off on buying Aaron Venture Woodwinds for a year, not sure I will be able to pass a BF or Christmas sale if Aaron puts on a super good one.


----------



## Lode_Runner

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> +i was chatting with Alex and apparently the bushfires we had in Australia months back directly affected them as well.


Given the crazy amount of smoke pollution we had in Sydney, that may have effected the woodwind players?


----------



## mybadmemory

Lode_Runner said:


> Given the crazy amount of smoke pollution we had in Sydney, that may have effected the woodwind players?



When it finally get released: A library of smoke induced coughing and sneezing.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Lode_Runner said:


> Given the crazy amount of smoke pollution we had in Sydney, that may have effected the woodwind players?


well actually some of their property (private or commercial I cannot recall) was burnt in the fires.


----------



## purple

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> well actually some of their property (private or commercial I cannot recall) was burnt in the fires.



I hope it wasn't the secret legato scripts


----------



## Lode_Runner

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> well actually some of their property (private or commercial I cannot recall) was burnt in the fires.


Oh. I was thinking of TrackDown being in around Moore Park. I work not far from there and I remember the sore throat I was getting from weeks of smoke inhalation, so I thought maybe that was impacting the wind players. Burnt property is a far worse scenario, sorry to hear that.


----------



## muziksculp

So.. Are we going to hear lots of Woodwind centric tracks after CSW is released ?


----------



## RogiervG

muziksculp said:


> So.. Are we going to hear lots of Woodwind centric tracks after CSW is released ?


sure, we need more woods in our compositions/renders.. it's time for less brassy compositions.


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

NO ANNOUNCEMENT, that I know of.

A question: What was the intro price for the CSB? Was it different for the new customers vs the owners of other CS products? Do customers get loyalty discount if they buy their first CS product on sale (BF or Intro)?


----------



## RogiervG

Existing licensees of their products, get a loyalty discount on other products. (personal discount code)
Not sure if that counts on top of any introduction price (if they even have one).

Afaik, it doesn't matter if you purchase the first library during sales or not. Once you are a customer you are entitled for a discount coupon for a next purchase. (not sure if the piano counts though, since it's cheap)

i go mine when i purchased a license


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

Thank you.


----------



## filipjonathan

RogiervG said:


> Existing licensees of their products, get a loyalty discount on other products. (personal discount code)
> Not sure if that counts on top of any introduction price (if they even have one).
> 
> Afaik, it doesn't matter if you purchase the first library during sales or not. Once you are a customer you are entitled for a discount coupon for a next purchase. (not sure if the piano counts though, since it's cheap)
> 
> i go mine when i purchased a license


I actually got the piano for 50% off.


----------



## RogiervG

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Thank you.


If you want to know for sure, please ask them directly through their website.
They respond rather quickly, and are friendly folks. (i had mail contact with Alex and John)


----------



## RogiervG

filipjonathan said:


> I actually got the piano for 50% off.


Yes, the piano is the cheapest of the bunch, so i recon they give the biggest discount (with or without other sales).

For their bigger libs the discount is lesser.. but still a good deal nonetheless.
And the best part: they don't expire..


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

RogiervG said:


> If you want to know for sure, please ask them directly through their website.
> They respond rather quickly, and are friendly folks. (i had mail contact with Alex and John)


I feel, they get enough questions lately; mostly one question really...


----------



## purple

They will also bundle things so that you don't have to buy one and then wait for the codes. Just contact customer support and they might even give you a better deal if you want to buy the whole collection than you would get normally.


----------



## muziksculp

OK, so while we wait for CSW to be released. Here is a question to keep us busy that's related to woodwinds:

Q. Which Orchestral woodwind instrument/s do you think are the ones sample developers don't get right most of the time, I mean sonically ?

for me, it's the Oboe, and English Horn. Sometimes the Flute.


----------



## borisb2

To me thats clearly the oboe. i got VSL, Cinewinds, EWHO, Fluffy, Claire and BWW expansion.

The nicest in sound for sure its BWW but for more agile stuff its not the best. VSL is too sterile, Cinewinds and Fluffy have almost zero vibrato, sounds too synthy, EW has.. well lets not talk about that, and Claire is somewhere in between ok-ish but not really great


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> OK, so while we wait for CSW to be released. Here is a question to keep us busy that's related to woodwinds:
> 
> Q. Which Orchestral woodwind instrument/s do you think are the ones sample developers don't get right most of the time, I mean sonically ?
> 
> for me, it's the Oboe, and English Horn. Sometimes the Flute.


Haven't heard a _really _convincing sampled English Horn so far.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Definitely the oboe/English horn, but I'm a sucker for a nice Flute/Alto Flute so I hope those are done well!


----------



## Robert_G

I agree about the oboe, but one that is overlooked is Symphobia Lumina. Their oboe has a lot of character.


----------



## muziksculp

I personally think that sampling alone is not the best way to re-create woodwind instruments. We will always feel something is off. Lots of example to support this. 

(Sampling + Physical Modeling) when combined/integrated is imho. the way to proceed forward. You get the agility of performance similar or close to the real thing, and realm of timbre.


----------



## purple

muziksculp said:


> OK, so while we wait for CSW to be released. Here is a question to keep us busy that's related to woodwinds:
> 
> Q. Which Orchestral woodwind instrument/s do you think are the ones sample developers don't get right most of the time, I mean sonically ?
> 
> for me, it's the Oboe, and English Horn. Sometimes the Flute.


I actually really like the OT BWW EXP B oboe and english horn, but they do have some quirks. For me the worst offenders are usually bassoons. Don't get me started on saxophones though, which are probably the hardest thing to sample aside from solo vocals but to be fair those aren't considered a "standard" orchestral instrument as much as the others so I doubt as much thought has gone into them.

I think the trouble with the double reeds and the saxophone is the wide range of tones they create throughout a phrase. Without these subtle fluctuations the sound is quite sterile to my ears and that's what makes them so fake-sounding. That's also I think what makes the EXP B soloists work better for me than most (there is more performance baked in to those).

Most of all I hope CSW delivers superior agility and legato. Those are the things that no WW sample library can do for me yet.


----------



## purple

muziksculp said:


> I personally think that sampling alone is not the best way to re-create woodwind instruments. We will always feel something is off. Lots of example to support this.
> 
> (Sampling + Physical Modeling) when combined/integrated is imho. the way to proceed forward. You get the agility of performance similar or close to the real thing, and realm of timbre.


I hope to see modeling tech improve. I think it's the future, but so far the results have been quite synthy tone-wise. I hope one of the big companies invests into it because they have the resources to do it right.


----------



## muziksculp

purple said:


> Most of all I hope CSW delivers superior agility and legato. Those are the things that no WW sample library can do for me yet.



My expectations are down to earth, I'm not expecting any miracles from CSW.


----------



## muziksculp

purple said:


> I hope CSW delivers superior agility and legato



Agility and Legato, are super important, Yes.

But, don't forget the timbre, if that's not modeled very well (in PM), or captured very accurately (in sampling) the results are not going to sound natural or as realistic as we expect them, no matter how good the legato scripting is.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Alex said he was really happy with the results of CSW thus far - I am inclined to believe it will be a very solid product.


----------



## filipjonathan

It will be the greatest library ever made. Nothing will ever come close to it.


----------



## Windbag

Bluemount Score said:


> Haven't heard a _really _convincing sampled English Horn so far.



This one's workin pretty well for me


----------



## Geocranium

purple said:


> I actually really like the OT BWW EXP B oboe and english horn, but they do have some quirks. For me the worst offenders are usually bassoons. Don't get me started on saxophones though, which are probably the hardest thing to sample aside from solo vocals but to be fair those aren't considered a "standard" orchestral instrument as much as the others so I doubt as much thought has gone into them.
> 
> I think the trouble with the double reeds and the saxophone is the wide range of tones they create throughout a phrase. Without these subtle fluctuations the sound is quite sterile to my ears and that's what makes them so fake-sounding. That's also I think what makes the EXP B soloists work better for me than most (there is more performance baked in to those).
> 
> Most of all I hope CSW delivers superior agility and legato. Those are the things that no WW sample library can do for me yet.



Maybe it's because I play the saxophone so I have higher standards than most, but I completely agree with you there. I have _never_ heard a saxophone library that I liked the tone of or thought was convincing in any way. The sample modeling ones are probably the best and even then, their tone sounds like an absolutely amateur player.


----------



## Windbag

Geocranium said:


> [...] The sample modeling ones are probably the best and even then, their tone sounds like an absolutely amateur player.



I think you're more right than you know...these models require a lot of realtime input to steer convincingly and that takes both specialized gear and practice. Most of the demos you're hearing are a keyboard player taking a first whack at it, but I have found patience to be very rewarding with the other winds (I don't have the saxes)


----------



## BassClef

purple said:


> They will also bundle things so that you don't have to buy one and then wait for the codes. Just contact customer support and they might even give you a better deal if you want to buy the whole collection than you would get normally.



Yes... I bought Strings, Brass and Solo strings all at once and they gave me the piano for free!


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> OK, so while we wait for CSW to be released. Here is a question to keep us busy that's related to woodwinds:
> 
> Q. Which Orchestral woodwind instrument/s do you think are the ones sample developers don't get right most of the time, I mean sonically ?
> 
> for me, it's the Oboe, and English Horn. Sometimes the Flute.


I have Infinite Woodwinds, and oddly enough the Oboe and English Horn sound better than the Flutes and Piccolo. Aaron Venture does a much better job at tackling the playability aspect of sampled instruments than a company like Spitfire Audio, but the sound itself is more in line with VSL, because of the samples being based on bone dry recordings. I'm not a huge fan of only having close mics on everything... especially on brass, but AV explained to me that it was the only way he could phase align the instruments.

I'm still excited for CSW though... especially because the woodwinds will have realistic legato AND mic positions that capture the instruments interacting with the room at Trackdown.


----------



## JeffvR

Latest news:

We're working really hard to get woodwinds finished and will hopefully have the library ready for release before the end of the year. Unfortunately Covid lockdowns meant we had to suspend recordings for percussion, but we'll get back to that early next year.


----------



## purple

JeffvR said:


> Latest news:
> 
> We're working really hard to get woodwinds finished and will hopefully have the library ready for release before the end of the year. Unfortunately Covid lockdowns meant we had to suspend recordings for percussion, but we'll get back to that early next year.


That's good to hear as I could really use it before the end of the year. I'm putting off a larger project because I want to wait for CSW before I make a new template for it. It's a long term projects so I will either start without it and end up having to redo stuff with it later or wait for it and start fresh. Might as well wait.


----------



## RMH

I've been longer really waiting for CSW.


----------



## muziksculp

JeffvR said:


> will hopefully have the library ready for release before the end of the year.



That's good news. 

The end of the year is not too far. Looking forward to seeing CSW released soon.  

Hmmm... and Less than 6 weeks left for 2020, I can't believe that we will soon be in 2021.


----------



## RMH

muziksculp said:


> I can't believe that we will soon be in 2021.


 yeah! Time flies.


muziksculp said:


> The end of the year is not too far. Looking forward to seeing CSW released soon.


And I heard too. 😎


----------



## Pianolando

purple said:


> That's good to hear as I could really use it before the end of the year. I'm putting off a larger project because I want to wait for CSW before I make a new template for it. It's a long term projects so I will either start without it and end up having to redo stuff with it later or wait for it and start fresh. Might as well wait.



Not that you asked for advice, and I’m sorry if you don’t want it, but personally I think it’s a very bad idea to wait for an upcoming sample library. Even ten year old libraries are perfectly good enough to get good results if you work on it hard enough and learn the skill, and even the latest generation cannot replace real players.

I am also very exited about this library, but in all honesty: we don’t know how good it will sound or even what instruments will be included in it. It will probably be very good but soon the next cool thing will be announced and then everyone will be waiting for that next game changer.

*Don’t let any tools or lack of tools stop you from writing cause the music you don’t write today might never be written.*

But, maybe you and I are very different and it’s not procrastination at all, in that case just ignore my rambling


----------



## Supremo

Date: 30 December 2020

Message from Alex Wallbank:

We're working really hard to get CSW finished and will hopefully have the library ready for release before the end of the year. 

Sincerely,
John


----------



## jamwerks

Seeing as they are this close to being done, they could surely share some audio with us!


----------



## purple

Pianolando said:


> Not that you asked for advice, and I’m sorry if you don’t want it, but personally I think it’s a very bad idea to wait for an upcoming sample library. Even ten year old libraries are perfectly good enough to get good results if you work on it hard enough and learn the skill, and even the latest generation cannot replace real players.
> 
> I am also very exited about this library, but in all honesty: we don’t know how good it will sound or even what instruments will be included in it. It will probably be very good but soon the next cool thing will be announced and then everyone will be waiting for that next game changer.
> 
> *Don’t let any tools or lack of tools stop you from writing cause the music you don’t write today might never be written.*
> 
> But, maybe you and I are very different and it’s not procrastination at all, in that case just ignore my rambling


The music is mostly written. Just all in the form of piano sketches for now. I don't want to start orchestration until I have my template done and I don't want to do my template until I have everything that will go into it. If CSW isn't good I'll have to buy something else anyways. I don't want to buy something else before CSW because I am not completely satisfied with what's out there now.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Pianolando said:


> we don’t know how good it will sound or even what instruments will be included in it.


We know that woodwind instruments will be included for sure, but we don't know anything about the harp.


jamwerks said:


> Seeing as they are this close to being done, they could surely share some audio with us!


As with previous CSS, CSSS and CSB releases, audio demos and walkthroughs will appear instantly and immediately on the same day as the CSW release. I'm sure they will, because they're pretty damn consistent.


----------



## tcb

Date: 30 December 3020

Message from Alex Wallbank:

We're working really hard to get CSW finished and will hopefully have the library ready for release before the end of the year.

Sincerely,
John


----------



## Toecutter

Alex and Jasper are competing to see who takes longer to release. At least we know it's damn worth the wait!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Toecutter said:


> Alex and Jasper are competing to see who takes longer to release. At least we know it's damn worth the wait!


Alex, Jasper and Aaron. Let's see who's first / last


----------



## MOMA

Could the enthusiasts, as we all seem to be, assist Alex in any way?

Crowdfunding?

*MOMA*
Stockholm,Sweden


----------



## Bluemount Score

MOMA said:


> Could the enthusiasts, as we all seem to be, assist Alex in any way?
> 
> Crowdfunding?
> 
> *MOMA*
> Stockholm,Sweden


I'm assuming lack of money is not the reason for the delays


----------



## Grilled Cheese

tcb said:


> We're working really hard to get CSW finished and will *hopefully* have the library ready for release before the end of the year.


There’s that word again.


----------



## Scalms

Alex circa Nov 25, _2018_.

"We started woodwinds a couple of years ago, alongside brass, and we've done quite a bit of recording and editing, but haven't finished the recording sessions yet. I'm really *hoping* to get the library out in the first half of next year, but realistically closer to mid-year at this stage. I haven't recorded alto flute yet but have certainly been considering it; I've got lots of marvellous piccolo."

Don't worry, it's almost here!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Scalms said:


> Alex circa Nov 25, _2018_.
> 
> "We started woodwinds a couple of years ago, alongside brass, and we've done quite a bit of recording and editing, but haven't finished the recording sessions yet. I'm really *hoping* to get the library out in the first half of next year, but realistically closer to mid-year at this stage. I haven't recorded alto flute yet but have certainly been considering it; I've got lots of marvellous piccolo."
> 
> Don't worry, it's almost here!


I hope the alto flute made it! Bass flute as well perhaps? One can always hope. I love both instruments and I think both are still quite uncommon, which makes them even more interesting to me


----------



## Scalms

Bluemount Score said:


> I hope the alto flute made it! Bass flute as well perhaps? One can always hope. I love both instruments and I think both are still quite uncommon, which makes them even more interesting to me


me too! Alto flute is my favorite


----------



## jaketanner

I don't think you can consider a woodwind library complete without an Alto Flute...such a nice tone for lyrical work. I also would imagine that there SHOULD be the low-boys of the winds...contra clarinet, contra bassoon...etc. I would also consider it not complete without a Cor Anglais...but I am sure Alex took all these into consideration. ("hopefully") LOL


----------



## prodigalson

jaketanner said:


> I don't think you can consider a woodwind library complete without an Alto Flute...such a nice tone for lyrical work. I also would imagine that there SHOULD be the low-boys of the winds...contra clarinet, contra bassoon...etc. I would also consider it not complete without a Cor Anglais...but I am sure Alex took all these into consideration. ("hopefully") LOL



I'd be surprised if there was a contrabass clarinet but Bass Clarinet and contrabassoon for sure (hopefully)


----------



## jaketanner

prodigalson said:


> I'd be surprised if there was a contrabass clarinet but Bass Clarinet and contrabassoon for sure (hopefully)


Contraclarinet is my favorite for some serious low end power...it's so smooth sounding also...would be a shame. I mean in today's market, having ALL winds (like Spitfire) is important. I also hate it when developers split up the libraries...like OT...forcing you to buy expansions, when it should really just be all in one.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

jaketanner said:


> I don't think you can consider a woodwind library complete without an Alto Flute


I think alto flute is more of a thing in the sampling world. I don't see it in real-life orchestral scores nearly as often. So I'd say a woodwinds library can be considered complete without alto flute.


----------



## Bluemount Score

jaketanner said:


> Contraclarinet is my favorite for some serious low end power...it's so smooth sounding also...would be a shame. I mean in today's market, having ALL winds (like Spitfire) is important. I also hate it when developers split up the libraries...like OT...forcing you to buy expansions, when it should really just be all in one.


Is it just me or do Contrabass Clarinet and Contrabassoon sound like the drill in the wall of your hated neighbors?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I think alto flute is more of a thing in the sampling world. I don't see it in real-life orchestral scores nearly as often. So I'd say a woodwinds library can be considered complete without alto flute.


I think so too! As I said before, I still consider it as pretty uncommon, which makes it even more interesting to me. Of course I also really like the tone, for me it's almost like flutes are _supposed_ to play in that lower register more often...


----------



## jaketanner

Bluemount Score said:


> Is it just me or do Contrabass Clarinet and Contrabassoon sound like the drill in the wall of your hated neighbors?


The contrabassoon is a bit harsh but adds strength to the low end...I like the upper range on the Contra Clarinet...adds nice body...depends on the library of course..


----------



## muziksculp

My gut feeling, CSW will be out in December.


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> My gut feeling, CSW will be out in December.


Which year?


----------



## VivianaSings

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I think alto flute is more of a thing in the sampling world. I don't see it in real-life orchestral scores nearly as often. So I'd say a woodwinds library can be considered complete without alto flute.



You'd be surprised how often it shows up in orchestral scores. My fiancee is a professional full time flutist and so I get to see first hand how often she uses her alto. In fact I have to drive her to the flute center in Manhattan tomorrow to pick up two Alto flutes to demo because she's gonna drop another 5 figures on a new one for an orchestral recording session she's on in December that has alto flute front and center.


----------



## lettucehat

Toecutter said:


> Alex and Jasper are competing to see who takes longer to release. At least we know it's damn worth the wait!



Funny, the correlation between that and quality...


----------



## Tremendouz

8Dio's alto flute is one of my favourite solo instruments so I definitely hope CSW will have one too.


----------



## muziksculp

Tremendouz said:


> 8Dio's alto flute is one of my favourite solo instruments



Talking about 8dio woodwinds, they have already begun working on Century Woodwinds, my guess we will see it released during Q1-2021.


----------



## Kent

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I think alto flute is more of a thing in the sampling world. I don't see it in real-life orchestral scores nearly as often. So I'd say a woodwinds library can be considered complete without alto flute.


It’s all over 60s scores, along with bass flute and piccolo quartet. They liked flutes back then


----------



## VivianaSings

kmaster said:


> It’s all over 60s scores, along with bass flute and piccolo quartet. They liked flutes back then



70s, too. I think what a lot of people mistake for a flute playing in its lower range is actually an alto flute. I used to also until I met my fiancee ages ago and she started pointing out the alto in tons of stuff I used to listen to that I thought was just a flute playing in the lower half of its range. There's a distinct timbre difference between the two even in the same range and now that I'm all too familiar with both I can hear the difference easily.


----------



## Bluemount Score

VivianaSings said:


> 70s, too. I think what a lot of people mistake for a flute playing in its lower range is actually an alto flute. I used to also until I met my fiancee ages ago and she started pointing out the alto in tons of stuff I used to listen to that I thought was just a flute playing in the lower half of its range. There's a distinct timbre difference between the two even in the same range and now that I'm all too familiar with both I can hear the difference easily.


Time to bring back these times!


----------



## Tremendouz

I'm just a little concerned about the possible lack of alto flute because the approach of the Cinematic Studio series seems to be having just the bare minimum instruments you need to get the job done. So I'm expecting piccolo, flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon and contrabassoon (Cinewinds CORE for example doesn't even have the last one iirc)


----------



## muziksculp

Once Orchestral Tools ports its Berlin Woodwinds into the SINE player format. You can buy a-la Cart Woodwinds from OT, and they are excellent !


----------



## Tremendouz

muziksculp said:


> Once Orchestral Tools ports its Berlin Woodwinds into the SINE player format. You can buy a-la Cart Woodwinds from OT, and they are excellent !


I wasn't even thinking about that but now my wallet is already screaming in agony.


----------



## Michael Stibor

muziksculp said:


> Once Orchestral Tools ports its Berlin Woodwinds into the SINE player format. You can buy a-la Cart Woodwinds from OT, and they are excellent !


Is that supposed to happen?


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

muziksculp said:


> Once Orchestral Tools ports its Berlin Woodwinds into the SINE player format. You can buy a-la Cart Woodwinds from OT, and they are excellent !


Having just used Berlin Woodwinds Revive on my track for OT competition, I have to say I am quite disappointed in them. The legato and a moderate pace sounds dreadful on the tree/ab/srnd mics and there's an annoying amount of inconsistency.


----------



## muziksculp

Michael Stibor said:


> Is that supposed to happen?



Yes. Their entire Berlin Orchestral line will be eventually ported to the SINE player, with more improvements than the Kontakt version.


----------



## muziksculp

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Having just used Berlin Woodwinds Revive on my track for OT competition, I have to say I am quite disappointed in them. The legato and a moderate pace sounds dreadful on the tree/ab/srnd mics and there's an annoying amount of inconsistency.



Which Instrument/s were you disappointed with ?


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

muziksculp said:


> Which Instrument/s were you disappointed with ?


It's a big list of small grievances but they add up to the point where I was changing my music to fit the samples which to me is a cardinal sin of sampled orchestral instruments.

Of the top of my head, clarinets had very poor legato at the medium pace I also think between Marc Long on those Cl 1 has mf-ff whilst Cl 2 has mp-ff, Flute 2 has no runs, the bassoons lack agility, the legacy instruments just aren't blending as nicely as I'd like. I could go on but I don't want to derail.

Just wanted to say Orchestral Tools are one of my top favourite sample companies - I just want them to do better.


----------



## muziksculp

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> It's a big list of small grievances but they add up to the point where I was changing my music to fit the samples which to me is a cardinal sin of sampled orchestral instruments.
> 
> Of the top of my head, clarinets had very poor legato at the medium pace I also think between Marc Long on those Cl 1 has mf-ff whilst Cl 2 has mp-ff, Flute 2 has no runs, the bassoons lack agility, the legacy instruments just aren't blending as nicely as I'd like. I could go on but I don't want to derail.
> 
> Just wanted to say Orchestral Tools are one of my top favourite sample companies - I just want them to do better.



Yes, they are not perfect, and need to be polished to shine. 

I'm hoping that's exactly what they are doing, and will be releasing a much more refined, and perfected version of them in SINE player format. Not only their Woodwinds, but all of their Berlin Orchestra catalog. It is going to take a while, but I really hope they will begin releasing a good chunk of that catalog during Q1-2021 and the following quarters of 2021.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

muziksculp said:


> Yes, they are not perfect, and need to be polished to shine.
> 
> I'm hoping that's exactly what they are doing, and will be releasing a much more refined, and perfected version of them in SINE player format. Not only their Woodwinds, but all of their Berlin Orchestra catalog. It is going to take a while, but I really hope they will begin releasing a good chunk of that catalog during Q1-2021 and the following quarters of 2021.


Me too, BS + expansions being able to xfade from any between samples from expansions would be awesome


----------



## purple

If it has the same amount of patches as CSB it would have 8 which is enough for one of each of the "main four" woodwinds as well as one of each of the aux. instruments associated with them. If they go that route that might mean alto flute, english horn, bass clarinet, contrabassoon. I'd rather have piccolo than contrabassoon (I say this even though I play the contrabasoon a lot) simply because I think it's more useful and is more relevant when used than the contrabassoon. Ideally there'd be 2 individual players for each section _and_ some aux instruments but I don't want it to cost more than the same price as the other CSS series...


----------



## jimjazzuk

NOW what the hell do we do?!


----------



## Kurosawa

Should I buy Berlin WWs or wait for CSW?


----------



## Andrajas

jimjazzuk said:


> NOW what the hell do we do?!


m----uuu--ssstt----re---sis---t! !!!


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

Kurosawa said:


> Should I buy Berlin WWs or wait for CSW?


I don´t own BWW (yet), but I would assume that they include more instruments and/or articulations than CSW will. The recording quality of both libraries is (going to be) pretty great and for 50% off BWW is in the same price range we assume CSW will be in, so it might be a good idea to just go for it and get BWW now.
This conclusion is derrived from a lot of assumptions though, so you should not rely on this statement exclusively
😅


----------



## Kurosawa

Laurin Lenschow said:


> I don´t own BWW (yet), but I would assume that they include more instruments and/or articuolations than CSW will. The recording quality of both libraries is (going to be) pretty great and for 50% off BWW is in the same price range we assume CSW will be in, so it might be a good idea to just go for it and get BWW now.
> This conclusion is derrived from a lot of assumptions though, so you should not rely on this statement exclusively
> 😅


Thank you!


----------



## ricoderks

Staaahpp giving me hope when this thread updates!! xD


----------



## Architekton

I'd rather wait for CSW.


----------



## ethormusic

Kurosawa said:


> Should I buy Berlin WWs or wait for CSW?


With CSW (hopefully) around the corner, if it were me I would just wait for CSW.


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

ethormusic said:


> With CSW (hopefully) around the corner, if it were me I would just wait for CSW.


CSW has been just around the corner for several years though, hasn't it?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Laurin Lenschow said:


> CSW has been just around the corner for several years though, hasn't it?


But this time reeeaalllyyy. I can smell it


----------



## muziksculp

Bluemount Score said:


> But this time reeeaalllyyy. I can smell it



So.. How does it smell ?


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> So.. How does it smell ?


Sorry, it wasn't CSW that I smelled, I forgot pizza in the oven


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Stand your ground everyone.


----------



## ricoderks

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Stand your ground everyone.


Extra like for you: +1


----------



## Eptesicus

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Stand your ground everyone.



Sums it up pretty much :D

God damn it OT. Big decision to make in the next 6 days...


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

ricoderks said:


> Extra like for you: +1


Haha thanks man! I'd also take a free lesson of how to make my mockups sound as good as yours! 



Eptesicus said:


> Sums it up pretty much :D
> 
> God damn it OT. Big decision to make in the next 6 days...



Honestly, I don't think this is a coincidence ... OT's no slouch, I'd reckon they are aware of their competitors and are smartly discounting their flagship woodwind library to put a dent into the sales of CSW.
Or, maybe I'm just reading too much into things


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Honestly, I don't think this is a coincidence ... OT's no slouch, I'd reckon they are aware of their competitors and are smartly discounting their flagship woodwind library to put a dent into the sales of CSW.
> Or, maybe I'm just reading too much into things


I Remember the same being said about SStW a few months ago.


----------



## Michael Stibor

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> I Remember the same being said about SStW a few months ago.


Oh man, I hope not. If someone bought SStW as a temporary replacement for CSW then they’re going to be sorely disappointed! I have it and it sucks.


----------



## Robert_G

Michael Stibor said:


> Oh man, I hope not. If someone bought SStW as a temporary replacement for CSW then they’re going to be sorely disappointed! I have it and it sucks.



+1. Stay far away from them.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Laurin Lenschow said:


> CSW has been just around the corner for several years though, hasn't it?


But after several years we are now closer to the corner than ever!


----------



## eli0s

Let's hope this corner isn't a round one!


----------



## Tremendouz

I have a lowkey good feeling about it releasing soon... I mean, 2020 can't possibly get any more disappointing, can it?


----------



## cqd

Tremendouz said:


> I mean, 2020 can't possibly get any more disappointing, can it?



Dude.. what are you doing tempting fate like that,.. Jesus..


----------



## Bluemount Score

With 53 pages before the library or even a teaser of it is released, is this the most anticipated library in sample history? Or are we all just a little goofy?


----------



## Tremendouz

Bluemount Score said:


> With 53 pages before the library or even a teaser of it is released, is this the most anticipated library in sample history? Or are we all just a little goofy?


Why not both


----------



## purple

I will probably wait until the last day of the BWW sale. If there is still no info about CSW by then what I will probably do is still wait for CSW anyways.


----------



## pawelmorytko

Honestly, a few months ago if this Berlin Series sale happened I think I would have probably bought the Woodwinds and the Brass, but now.... I really think I will hold off for CSW because I really think they are just about ready, and Abbey Road modular orchestra is also very exciting which I would rather get over the Berlin stuff


----------



## cqd

I just checked the website..

It's not out yet..


----------



## ethormusic

cqd said:


> I just checked the website..
> 
> It's not out yet..


Check again every hour that will help Alex Wallbank finish it faster.


----------



## purple

ethormusic said:


> Check again every hour that will help Alex Wallbank finish it faster.


Every click on the site generates more ad revenue for them maybe? Even if it doesn't I will just tell myself it does.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Every time we click on the site, a little woodwind note dies out somewhere.


----------



## Tinesaeriel

cqd said:


> I just checked the website..
> 
> It's not out yet..



Not cool, man. Not cool. 

😭😭😭


----------



## RMH

Has anyone inquired this month?


----------



## axb312

I too have decided to wait for CSW considering the potential consistency across the lib and it's ease of use. Tone is the only reason for doubt at the moment (for me).


----------



## purple

axb312 said:


> I too have decided to wait for CSW considering the potential consistency across the lib and it's ease of use. Tone is the only reason for doubt at the moment (for me).


I agree. I think the hall they recorded in was underwhelming for brass. That's my only problem with CSB. I don't see that being an issue with CSW given the fact that woodwinds can be dry as hell and aren't as space-dependent as brass. Worst case scenario I just use the close mics with reverb. Probably would sit well in my mix. However if the scripting and sample set is even 75% as good as CSB it would be worth the poor tone anyways.


----------



## pawelmorytko

purple said:


> I agree. I think the hall they recorded in was underwhelming for brass. That's my only problem with CSB. I don't see that being an issue with CSW given the fact that woodwinds can be dry as hell and aren't as space-dependent as brass. Worst case scenario I just use the close mics with reverb. Probably would sit well in my mix. However if the scripting and sample set is even 75% as good as CSB it would be worth the poor tone anyways.


100% agree, CSB I great but I only ever end up using the Horns and Trumpets because the low brass doesn't have enough space in the room to project the sound, so I usually turn to JXL low brass for stuff like that. But hopefully the woodwinds don't need as much space as brass, especially the higher range woodwinds


----------



## Alex W

Hi everyone,

First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!

Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...

As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.

The instrument list is as follows:

Solo Flute
2 Flutes
Solo Oboe
2 Oboes
Solo Clarinet
2 Clarinets
Solo Bassoon
2 Bassoons
Solo Piccolo
Solo Cor Anglais
Solo Alto Flute
Solo Bass Clarinet
Solo Contrabassoon

And of course, a full ensemble patch.

We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).

Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.

-Alex


----------



## Kent

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


Thanks @Alex W!


----------



## Eptesicus

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex



Thanks for this!

Wow at those demos. Beautiful. The woodwinds so organic!

You may have just prevented me from buying BWW and waiting for this instead!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


Thanks a lot for the update, I think I can speak for us all if i say it is really appreciated.
Good luck finishing the product. "Demos" sound amazing.

Also fun to hear you are enjoying this chaotic thread!


----------



## Laurin Lenschow

That instrument list exceeded my expectations by far!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Laurin Lenschow said:


> That instrument list exceeded my expectations by far!


I'm very happy with it as well. Alto Flute and Bass Clarinet!!


----------



## RogiervG

Thank you Alex for the update and music snippets.
Sounds amazing!


----------



## axb312

Great instrument list. Great sound.


----------



## Peter Satera

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


I love the sound! Looking forward to picking up both the woodwinds and brass! Thank you so much for the update, this series is certainly something special.


----------



## FrozenIcicle

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


WHO KEEPS BUMPING THIS THREAD...oh


----------



## Tremendouz

I have to say the instrument list is *exactly* what I hoped it would be. Stoked to have the alto flute and contrabassoon especially.


----------



## Scamper

What a treat! The instrument list really doesn't leave much to be desired and the demos sound great. Especially the sweet sound of the reeds is lovely.

I'm starting to get hyped now and actually hope, that it won't come out for the next 2-3 weeks. This would not be good for the thesis I have to finish.


----------



## Toecutter

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


*furiously throws money at the screen* XD

Thanks for the update Alex, sounding good! Stay safe.


----------



## Vik.Pr

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex



Okay... I love it ! 

Very nice job !


----------



## RMH

Alex W said:


> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.


Amazing Alex! 
I've been waiting a long time.
Thank you.
I think I can wait a little longer.
I look forward to meeting CSW.


----------



## jimjazzuk

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex



Sounds fab! I hope it does nice runs too! 🏃


----------



## Raphioli

its finally here...(although its previews I'm excited)
but damn, all these companies announcing/releasing new appealing libraries...

There might be no black friday for me this year...



Alex W said:


> However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit,


I'm not one of the people who sent you e-mails, but I appreciate your generosity.
I wish some other developers would follow, before Black Friday ends (I'm looking at you Audiobro lol).

Really enjoyed listening to those pieces. Not just as a preview but as a composition


----------



## Eptesicus

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Stand your ground everyone.



Had to be done


----------



## GingerMaestro

The library sounds amazeballs which we all knew it would) congratulations.

Also thanks for the inspiring compositions I really love your writing, which is ultimately what it’s all about.

Chookas for the final few weeks of work before the release. I hope you will finally be able to have a restful Christmas.


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

What a great list of instruments, and lovely tracks to boot. Thank you Alex!


----------



## Tom Ferguson

Sounds perfect for my tastes. GG!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

He replied!!! *faints*


----------



## Symfoniq

This sounds stunningly beautiful. And I'm not surprised at all.

Fantastic job, Alex!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Alex W said:


> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).


Knock on wood...winds


----------



## Raphioli

Oh! I forgot to mention!



Alex W said:


> I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious.


I think he might be curious at how much this threads going to grow from now till release.

Lets make it happen! I say at least 200 pages =D


----------



## Beans

If I buy this library, maybe I can write for woodwinds this well, too. 

Haha.


----------



## Casiquire

Eptesicus said:


> Had to be done


Eh, i don't even have the slightest tinge of regret going with BWW. The individual players really sold it for me


----------



## Eptesicus

Casiquire said:


> Eh, i don't even have the slightest tinge of regret going with BWW. The individual players really sold it for me



Im still tempted to get both to be honest, but i cant really justify the expense so i really need to limit myself to one or the other .


----------



## Beans

I struggled with woodwinds for a long time, because I couldn't get what I had to sit well with my strings and brass. Let's just say that my mixing skills haven't scaled at the same pace as my writing, at my own fault. 

BWW solved that instantly. I should have bought it full price years ago. 

With that said, I have complete confidence that CSW will have its place on my PC, as well. I probably would have picked it up demo unheard.


----------



## jamwerks

Perfect instrument list. Sound-wise that's really the best sounding scoring stage of any developer. If Synchron sounded as good as that, they'd put everyone else out of business.

And some great composing there also!!


----------



## Pantonal

Casiquire said:


> Eh, i don't even have the slightest tinge of regret going with BWW. The individual players really sold it for me


Keep telling yourself that. I did likewise with Aaron Venture Woodwinds, but even on my laptop I can hear CSW will be fantastic and Alex will get my $$ anyway.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Great demos Alex. Really shows off how CSW 'sits' with CSB/CSS. Congratulations on what should be a successful release.


----------



## Casiquire

Pantonal said:


> Keep telling yourself that. I did likewise with Aaron Venture Woodwinds, but even on my laptop I can hear CSW will be fantastic and Alex will get my $$ anyway.


There's nothing to "tell myself", just last night I was doing a mockup with two separate flutes. But it does indeed sound fantastic!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen




----------



## ism

And after 55 pages of "are we there yet", "are we there yet", "how about now? Are we there yet?" ... actual content!

And wow, these demos sound great!


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex



Ah, man, Alex, you know how to keep the CSS users sated and yet frothing for more!

The instrument list is great. I would've loved to see Bass Flute and Contrabass Clarinet on there, but I will absolutely make do with this list! Glad to see Alto Flute and English Horn on there!

But looking past the instrument list, the tone might be the best thing about the library - especially, from what I can hear, the clarinet, the oboe, and the flute. I'm especially picky about the tones on these 3 instruments, most of all clarinet and oboe because I played those 2, and still play the clarinet occasionally (poorly XD ), and gosh, you absolutely _nailed _the tone of these instruments. I am also loving the super agile legato I'm hearing in these demos. The legato on both CSS and CSB are absolutely unparalleled, but they're not the most agile legatos out there, but they also didn't need to be, necessarily. For winds though, I was hoping that wouldn't be the case, and aw man, you guys went and made a great agile legato for the woodwinds. 

I am suddenly super hyped to snag these once they're released. It'll be nice to have just a single primary woodwinds library that I can reliably use than having to pick and choose from multiple different libraries.


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Alex W ,

Looking forward to the release of CSW, the demos sound wonderful. 

Thanks,
Muziksculp


----------



## NoamL

Wow  The instrument list is good, the short notes sound great and the fast legatos are convincing. Really great demos too! The tone is different from SSW (my current most-used winds), which is cool, one more tool in the toolbox.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Alex W said:


> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex



the *MEMES? *

Here, king. Have another one.







Thank you Alex for posting this incredible update ... can't wait for the release! The demos sound incredible and well worth the wait!


----------



## Michael Stibor

Are we allowed to swear, ‘cause holy shit, I’m excited. The demos sound great! Better then I expected them to. Though I had a feeling that Cinematic would nail this.


----------



## muziksculp

I wonder if there will be a loyalty discount for CSW, if you own other Cinematic Studio Series libraries ? 

Plus a special Holiday discount on top of that would be super cool.


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if there will be a loyalty discount for CSW, if you own other Cinematic Studio Series libraries ?


There will be. Just like with CSB. -25% if I remember correctly


----------



## Drundfunk

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


I'm sold!


----------



## jamwerks

What excellent timing. It's been ages since anyone came out with a WW library. Should sell like pancakes!


----------



## muziksculp

jamwerks said:


> What excellent timing. It's been ages since anyone came out with a WW library. Should sell like pancakes!



Yes, but no one is using woodwinds these days


----------



## ag75

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


This is an instant buy for me. Just love everything you guys do. And thank you for not making us pay extra for an alto flute, bass clarinet and contrabassoon!


----------



## Scamper

Bluemount Score said:


> There will be. Just like with CSB. -25% if I remember correctly



The discount should be at 30% and it's even more for the smaller libraries.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Scamper said:


> The discount should be at 30% and it's even more for the smaller libraries.


I wasn't sure if it was 25 or 30, but even better! And yes, I got the piano cheaper as well, bought together with CSB.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

muziksculp said:


> Yes, but no one is using woodwinds these days


"Hey, Hey, Hey, speak for yourself!"
These days, few people write true music, they are few, but they are there!
Many people even say that they cannot write music for woodwind, don't know how to write. Most modern composers just need to learn a lot more, but the first step is to get rid of bad taste and cultivate a sense of beauty.


----------



## muziksculp

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> "Hey, Hey, Hey, speak for yourself!"
> These days, few people write true music, they are few, but they are there!
> Many people even say that they cannot write music for woodwind, don't know how to write. Most modern composers just need to learn a lot more, but the first step is to get rid of bad taste and cultivate a sense of beauty.



Don't get me wrong, I love woodwinds. But, given they don't get enough attention most of the time in modern scores, I just jokingly made that comment. Most of my favorite scores have a good doze of Woodwinds, and strings, with less Boom-bastic Brass, and Perc.


----------



## Blakus

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


Very nice, Alex - can tell you’ve been busy! Those quiet legatos at the end of the second example are some of the smoothest ww transitions I’ve heard. Super difficult to get those dynamics to match properly! Maybe I won’t have to hide woodwinds soon? Ha!


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

muziksculp said:


> Don't get me wrong, I love woodwinds. But, given they don't get enough attention most of the time in modern scores, I just jokingly made that comment. Most of my favorite scores have a good doze of Woodwinds, and strings, with less Boom-bastic Brass, and Perc.


Ah, this is another joke. This time I got caught!


----------



## Eptesicus

Blakus said:


> Very nice, Alex - can tell you’ve been busy! Those quiet legatos at the end of the second example are some of the smoothest ww transitions I’ve heard. Super difficult to get those dynamics to match properly! Maybe I won’t have to hide woodwinds soon? Ha!




Yeh, that quiet passage really stood out. Sounded incredibly realistic.


----------



## jaketanner

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


Awesome, thanks for the info.


----------



## muziksculp

So... Is it time for a *Cinematic Studio Percussion* thread ?


----------



## Scalms

muziksculp said:


> So... Is it time for a *Cinematic Studio Percussion* thread ?


maybe that's what we were hearing in the background of the demos


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> So... Is it time for a *Cinematic Studio Percussion* thread ?


Not yet! Wait for the day of release. I wonder if the percussion you hear in the examples are actual samples from Cinematic Studio Percussion, by that I mean recorded in the same studio? Or from a different library?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Scalms said:


> maybe that's what we were hearing in the background of the demos


Damn, you were seconds faster


----------



## muziksculp

Scalms said:


> maybe that's what we were hearing in the background of the demos



Given Alex W. has been working super hard, and as fast as possible during these Covid times, to complete CSW, I would be surprised if he had the extra time to record some of the Orch. Perc. we hear in the demos. Maybe it is, but I would guess not.


----------



## Pianolando

Wonderful to get an update! And the instrument list is much more comprehensive than I had dared to hope!


----------



## Scalms

muziksculp said:


> Given Alex W. has been working super hard, and as fast as possible during these Covid times, to complete CSW, I would be surprised if he had the extra time to record some of the Orch. Perc. we hear in the demos. Maybe it is, but I would guess not.


yeah I was just joking, the thought had crossed my mind when listening to the demos "wonder what percussion he uses"


----------



## Bluemount Score

Scalms said:


> yeah I was just joking, the thought had crossed my mind when listening to the demos "wonder what percussion he uses"


I mean it_ sounds_ like it's in the same space...
Nah, screw it, we first got something else to look forward to


----------



## col

Good on yer Alex - got that teaser out just in the nick of time - I was looking at blowing my dough on some BF retail therapy. 
I can wait.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

So fkn good.

The beauty of the player count is we can quite easily duplicate a solo player to create say flute 2 for non-unison lines. I've experimented with the different players in product like BWW and honestly, the difference is hardly worth it imo (especially when taking inconsistencies into account)


----------



## mcalis

muziksculp said:


> So... Is it time for a *Cinematic Studio Percussion* thread ?


You evil, evil man.


----------



## Sovereign

This was always an instant buy from the beginning.


----------



## ethormusic

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex



Thank you for sharing the update, Alex. These two pieces showcase how good CSW will sound with the CSB, CSS, and CSSS.

Excellent instrument list. Pretty much exactly what I thought it would be. All I can say I can't wait to replace BBCSO's woodwinds with yours in my template, Alex. Thank you for working so hard to get CSW released this year!


----------



## Rob Elliott

muziksculp said:


> So... Is it time for a *Cinematic Studio Percussion* thread ?


That's like asking your wife - giving birth to TWINS - "hun, how about triplets next time!"


----------



## sylent01

Tinesaeriel said:


> Ah, man, Alex, you know how to keep the CSS users sated and yet frothing for more!
> 
> The instrument list is great. I would've loved to see Bass Flute and Contrabass Clarinet on there, but I will absolutely make do with this list! Glad to see Alto Flute and English Horn on there!
> 
> But looking past the instrument list, the tone might be the best thing about the library - especially, from what I can hear, the clarinet, the oboe, and the flute. I'm especially picky about the tones on these 3 instruments, most of all clarinet and oboe because I played those 2, and still play the clarinet occasionally (poorly XD ), and gosh, you absolutely _nailed _the tone of these instruments. I am also loving the super agile legato I'm hearing in these demos. The legato on both CSS and CSB are absolutely unparalleled, but they're not the most agile legatos out there, but they also didn't need to be, necessarily. For winds though, I was hoping that wouldn't be the case, and aw man, you guys went and made a great agile legato for the woodwinds.
> 
> I am suddenly super hyped to snag these once they're released. It'll be nice to have just a single primary woodwinds library that I can reliably use than having to pick and choose from multiple different libraries.


My feelings to a ‘T”. As a flute player, I’ve been waiting years for somebody to get the tones and legato right. I love the shorts as well. Just waiting to see how the vibrato is handled, which I’m sure will be great.


----------



## Robert_G

Rob Elliott said:


> That's like asking your wife - giving birth to TWINS - "hun, how about triplets next time!"



I think most of us know that CSP will probably be a great product, but good percussion is not hard to find. I doubt there will be even a fraction of the hype surrounding it as there is for these woodwinds. These woodwinds are approaching the Holy Grail status of VIs. CSP will not even be close to this.


----------



## muziksculp

Robert_G said:


> I think most of know that CSP will probably be a great product, but good percussion is not hared to find. I doubt there will be even a fraction of the hype surrounding it as there is for these woodwinds. These woodwinds are approaching the Holy Grail status of VIs. CSP will not even be close to this.



I agree, I think I'm pretty set as far as Orch. Perc is concerned. 

But if Alex Releases a surprise Cinematic Studio Percussion library later today, I might still buy it


----------



## Bluemount Score

Robert_G said:


> I think most of know that CSP will probably be a great product, but good percussion is not hared to find. I doubt there will be even a fraction of the hype surrounding it as there is for these woodwinds. These woodwinds are approaching the Holy Grail status of VIs. CSP will not even be close to this.


CSP... here comes in the confusion between Percussion and Piano


----------



## NoamL

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> So fkn good.
> 
> The beauty of the player count is we can quite easily duplicate a solo player to create say flute 2 for non-unison lines. I've experimented with the different players in product like BWW and honestly, the difference is hardly worth it imo (especially when taking inconsistencies into account)



I feel it's worth it for some instruments, the horns and trumpets... not so much the low brass and winds though.... The player lineup for CSW is great and exceeds my expectation.

It's going to be their largest library, CSS was 5 sections, CSB was 8 sections/solos, CSW will be 13.


----------



## lettucehat

Just asking for a friend, who lives in the future... the immediate loyalty discount is 30% right? So theoretically he could take an intro deal on CSW and turn it into a better CSS deal than Black Friday? He needs to see how other upcoming string libraries shape up...


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> So... Is it time for a *Cinematic Studio Percussion* thread ?


Can we get a moderator in here? I'm pretty sure that "true and utter evil" goes against forum rules right? 😆


----------



## purple

Well now I _know_ I don't have to buy BWW while it's on sale! Those demos are AMAZING. The instruments sound just so consistent and flexible, just like the brass do. And the tone is certainly one of the best.


----------



## purple

Also must say I'm happy with the list of aux. instruments. It has all the staples in my mind. And happy to see bass clarinet as I was not expecting it but really wanted it. And it blends so well with CSS by the sound of it. couldn't be much happier.


----------



## Noc

Hot dang, yesterday I get the email announcement for Audiobro’s new strings library before year’s end, and now I find the holy grail of woodwinds VSTis is also right around the corner. I think 2020 is trying to make up for its sins a little.

The instrument list is solid – doesn’t include my entire wishlist (would’ve liked to see the bass flute and Eb & contrabass clarinets), but it’s also not as limited as I feared, so I’m happy – and those demos are just fantastic. (Loveliness of the woodwinds aside, “Northern Lights” is a beautiful piece of music; I could easily see it playing during the credits of a major Hollywood film, and I hope you don’t mind if I grab it and drop it into my music playlist.)

From now on I’m just gonna keep this thread pinned in my browser on auto-refresh, same with the MSS thread.


----------



## purple

muziksculp said:


> Yes, but no one is using woodwinds these days


Now they will... Now they will.......


----------



## ricoderks

I rarely watch a thread as often as this one. Fun times!
Gonna miss it when CSW is out (im not crying, you are)


----------



## Ashermusic

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex



Oh, dear lord, that sounds gorgeous.


----------



## purple

ricoderks said:


> I rarely watch a thread as often as this one. Fun times!
> Gonna miss it when CSW is out (im not crying, you are)


We should make a spinoff thread where we just continue to make jokes about CSW not being released yet even after it's released


----------



## ricoderks

purple said:


> We should make a spinoff thread where we just continue to make jokes about CSW not being released yet even after it's released


Lets call that thread cyberpunk 2077


----------



## patrick76

purple said:


> Now they will... Now they will.......


 You will be. You Will Be...... Yoda.


----------



## dcoscina

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


Alex, you know what I like most about your and your stuff? Your compositions are always MUSIC first and I love your style. It sounds great. Looking forward to Cinematic Woodwinds debut


----------



## gohrev

Beautiful, beautiful sounds.

Question: I already own CSS, and was looking to grab CSB this Black Friday. 
Would both libraries come with a -30% discount for me? If so, how would one go about that?


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

purple said:


> We should make a spinoff thread where we just continue to make jokes about CSW not being released yet even after it's released


----------



## Rob Elliott

purple said:


> We should make a spinoff thread where we just continue to make jokes about CSW not being released yet even after it's released


Check your drip - it seems to have stopped flowing.


----------



## purple

Many people in this thread now:


----------



## shponglefan

purple said:


> Many people in this thread now:


----------



## CT

muziksculp said:


> So... Is it time for a *Cinematic Studio Percussion* thread ?


----------



## markleake

Lol. I've been deliberately ignoring this thread for months because I didn't want to be teased any more. And even now I was just thinking it'll be the same tease, I will ignore.... but then I read another thread that said Alex had posted demos.... OMG, I couldn't have come in here faster to find them!! 

These sound beautiful. Very smooth, with the legato and vibrato sounding together like a real player would express them. Sounds like magic to me, because the tone of the instruments here sound so very professional. This is excellent news.

And a clarinet player with a smooth tone, and yet expressive -- this is rare in sample land. Very promising. Bring it on, I want to hear more!


----------



## Nils Neumann

This will be a perfect addition to BWW, very excited Alex!
Demos sound gorgeous!


----------



## GtrString

Great choice of instruments, great sounds! I almost went with the Cinesamples cores (which I also like the sound of), untill I heard this. But I own CS2 and will pick this up along with the brass, if it comes around before new years..


----------



## makimakimusic

Wow ! Nothern Lights is gorgeous ! I'm new to the Cinematic Studio Serie's world (just pick up CSSS two days ago) but I'm excited to ear more about CSW !


----------



## Bluemount Score

makimakimusic said:


> Wow ! Nothern Lights is gorgeous ! I'm new to the Cinematic Studio Serie's world (just pick up CSSS two days ago) but I'm excited to ear more about CSW !


You are lucky to join us now, not 2 years ago... it has been a long way (but a funny one)!


----------



## coprhead6

I had BWW EXP B for a few months since I really needed some good soloists. I picked up BWW and EXP A a few days ago but left out EXP C..... Now I can put that extra $187 towards CSWW!

No regrets!!!


----------



## Gingerbread

This thread reminds me of the lead-up to Christmas 1981, when I desperately wanted an AT-AT. The wanting was so much more fun than the having.


----------



## Pianolando

Gingerbread said:


> The wanting was so much more fun than the having.



Isn’t it always?


----------



## RogiervG

Pianolando said:


> Isn’t it always?


no  i will be happier IF i actually have what i want.
Waiting is just annoying haha


----------



## Raphioli

I think this is the worst Black Friday season I've ever experienced.
New appealing releases left and right...
I'm holding my BF budget and I'm like "what do I do!"


----------



## zolhof

Raphioli said:


> I think this is the worst Black Friday season I've ever experienced.
> New appealing releases left and right...
> I'm holding my BF budget and I'm like "what do I do!"


----------



## RogiervG

Raphioli said:


> I think this is the worst Black Friday season I've ever experienced.
> New appealing releases left and right...
> I'm holding my BF budget and I'm like "what do I do!"


I'm in the same boat.. so many amazing offers.. and introductions of new goodies soon to be released.. hmmm i think i'll wait till i am certain what i want (and when). I think i won't purchase anything this BW (black weekend/cyber monday)
Even if it would cost me more money (no sales anymore).. if it's worth the price, it's worth the price...


----------



## jamwerks

Yeah BF purchases affected by CSW & MSS announcements. Looking forward to Ark 3 on Sine with intro discount. And thought we'd have Century WW's by now.


----------



## Raphioli

zolhof said:


>


The things on sale this years are the ones I've been eying on for a long time and the new announcements and releases are also something I've been eying for a long time and they all came at once lol
(In regards to MSS, I was curious about LASS, then MSS/LASS3 was announced)

GAS might be the path to the dark side.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

When people still doubt Alex will have the library out by the end of the year


----------



## I like music

Suddenly gone very quiet in here. I'm assuming that everyone is either listening to those demos on repeat, or now that the mystery has been partially revealed, you can't bump this anymore to annoy people :D

If there aren't 1,000 demos being posted every single day for the whole month after this is released, I'll be very disappointed in you all!!!


----------



## Beans

I like music said:


> Suddenly gone very quiet in here. I'm assuming that everyone is either listening to those demos on repeat, or now that the mystery has been partially revealed, you can't bump this anymore to annoy people :D
> 
> If there aren't 1,000 demos being posted every single day for the whole month after this is released, I'll be very disappointed in you all!!!



Most people are

Digging into the Orchestration Recipes site;
Wondering where the Zodiac walkthrough is;
Stressing out over the Orchestral Tools sale final hours;
Stressing out over the Afflatus sale final hours; and/or
Trying to figure out how to use VEP.
Definitely not writing music.


----------



## I like music

Beans said:


> Most people are
> 
> Digging into the Orchestration Recipes site;
> Wondering where the Zodiac walkthrough is;
> Stressing out over the Orchestral Tools sale final hours;
> Stressing out over the Afflatus sale final hours; and/or
> Trying to figure out how to use VEP.
> Definitely not writing music.


Haha. It never stops!


----------



## Bluemount Score

I like music said:


> Suddenly gone very quiet in here. I'm assuming that everyone is either listening to those demos on repeat, or now that the mystery has been partially revealed, you can't bump this anymore to annoy people :D
> 
> If there aren't 1,000 demos being posted every single day for the whole month after this is released, I'll be very disappointed in you all!!!


It certainly feels a bit like relief since Alex posted


----------



## dbudimir

Bluemount Score said:


> It certainly feels a bit like relief since Alex posted


Until he doesn't post again until January or February!!!


----------



## Bluemount Score

dbudimir said:


> Until he doesn't post again until January or February!!!


whoopsie


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

Do you know, if one supposed to get a loyalty discount after a BF purchase? I bought CSB last Friday but didn't get any codes yet.


----------



## Beans

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> Do you know, if one supposed to get a loyalty discount after a BF purchase? I bought CSB last Friday but didn't get any codes yet.



I would imagine that any such codes for CSW would go out once there's an actual release. I believe the one for CSSS, for example, went out the day of release.

Now, as for retroactive stuff, I'm not certain. It's a good company with nice support, so emailing them won't hurt.


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

That makes sense. Thank you. I just want to make sure before I make any demands.


----------



## Fry777

ScrltPumpernickel said:


> That makes sense. Thank you. I just want to make sure before I make any demands.



You can definitely get your loyalty codes from their support, just tell them which product you want to buy on top.


----------



## Virtuoso

Do they only sell direct? I cracked yesterday and put CSS in my basket, but after checking out through PayPal, the price bumped up by 10% as I got hit with sales tax (despite this being an Australian company and I'm in the US). Probably because they use FastSpring, which is taxed as a 'marketplace facilitator'.


----------



## Mitch Gardner

Beans said:


> Most people are
> 
> Digging into the Orchestration Recipes site;
> Wondering where the Zodiac walkthrough is;
> Stressing out over the Orchestral Tools sale final hours;
> Stressing out over the Afflatus sale final hours; and/or
> Trying to figure out how to use VEP.
> Definitely not writing music.



You missed out:


Furiously refreshing this thread incase Alex posts something else


----------



## Ian Dorsch

My God those demos sound gorgeous. Alex does it again.


----------



## Gmetcalfe

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex





Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First things first, woodwinds is NOT released yet. Sorry!
> 
> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious. I know a number of people are no doubt getting somewhat frustrated with the wait too, and I totally get that. Believe me, I get frustrated with myself for taking this long too, as does the rest of my small team. I remember when I first started recording CSS back in April of 2014 I honestly thought at that time that I would have the whole orchestra, including percussion, done and dusted by now. Time makes fools of us all...
> 
> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready. However, having received a number of emails from people stressed out about Black Friday deals and so on, I decided that we should break with tradition a bit, and at least release some preliminary info and a couple of test pieces. These aren't necessarily demos, just literally the first couple of things I created to test out the library with the other sections. Don't worry, there's definitely more to come, but hopefully these are useful in getting a basic feel for how it's sounding.
> 
> The instrument list is as follows:
> 
> Solo Flute
> 2 Flutes
> Solo Oboe
> 2 Oboes
> Solo Clarinet
> 2 Clarinets
> Solo Bassoon
> 2 Bassoons
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon
> 
> And of course, a full ensemble patch.
> 
> We're doing everything we can to have the library out before the end of the year, and I have a good feeling this will be the case, barring some unforeseen catastrophe (knock on wood).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


Thanks Alex. Great instrument selection and wonderful compositions highlighting the beautifully realized samples. I absolutely can't wait!


----------



## ScrltPumpernickel

Virtuoso said:


> Do they only sell direct? I cracked yesterday and put CSS in my basket, but after checking out through PayPal, the price bumped up by 10% as I got hit with sales tax (despite this being an Australian company and I'm in the US). Probably because they use FastSpring, which is taxed as a 'marketplace facilitator'.


Man... I first got 7% bump because of mesmerizing exchange rate (Fastspring wouldn't charge me in USD) and than another 20% tax. Oh, how I wish that CS libraries would be available through resellers.


----------



## Gingerbread

I will absolutely be buying CSW, and am very excited!

I'll say, though, that I don't really understand the thinking behind the "1 solo, and a2" patch approach. Doubling woodwinds is relatively rare, and usually not encouraged. I'd rather have had two independent solo instruments (ie. Flute 1 and Flute 2).

It would've been the _same amount of work_ for Alex to make another solo patch, instead of an a2 patch, and if you wanted to double the instrument like an a2, then you could just play the two solo patches together. The only advantage the approach used in CSW provides is getting 3 unison woodwinds, which...well, that's not very typical.

Just a minor nitpick. Like I said, this is a guaranteed purchase for me regardless.


----------



## CT

Gingerbread said:


> Doubling woodwinds is relatively rare, and usually not encouraged.



That's not really true at all, though....



Gingerbread said:


> 3 unison woodwinds, which...well, that's not very typical.



Nor is that!


----------



## Kent

Mike T said:


> That's not really true at all, though....


Except in piccolos, except if Mancini


----------



## CT

Or ol' Gustav....


----------



## jbuhler

Gingerbread said:


> I will absolutely be buying CSW, and am very excited!
> 
> I'll say, though, that I don't really understand the thinking behind the "1 solo, and a2" patch approach. Doubling woodwinds is relatively rare, and usually not encouraged. I'd rather have had two independent solo instruments (ie. Flute 1 and Flute 2).
> 
> It would've been the _same amount of work_ for Alex to make another solo patch, instead of an a2 patch, and if you wanted to double the instrument like an a2, then you could just play the two solo patches together. The only advantage the approach used in CSW provides is getting 3 unison woodwinds, which...well, that's not very typical.
> 
> Just a minor nitpick. Like I said, this is a guaranteed purchase for me regardless.


a2 doubling is not that uncommon and it sounds quite different from playing two samples in unison, IMHO. But individual players on parts is more common still and for woodwinds I find using the same sample set for parts does not always work so well. So it’s a question of whether it’s preferable to have two individual players but no a2 or a2 and one solo player. Two individual players and a2 would be the best solution, but then you’d have a library roughly half again as large...


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Gingerbread said:


> I will absolutely be buying CSW, and am very excited!
> 
> I'll say, though, that I don't really understand the thinking behind the "1 solo, and a2" patch approach. Doubling woodwinds is relatively rare, and usually not encouraged. I'd rather have had two independent solo instruments (ie. Flute 1 and Flute 2).
> 
> It would've been the _same amount of work_ for Alex to make another solo patch, instead of an a2 patch, and if you wanted to double the instrument like an a2, then you could just play the two solo patches together. The only advantage the approach used in CSW provides is getting 3 unison woodwinds, which...well, that's not very typical.
> 
> Just a minor nitpick. Like I said, this is a guaranteed purchase for me regardless.


See in my view we get the best of both worlds. Well... almost. 

You want 2 independent flutes? Use two solo patched. yes not as "realistic" with two separate players but after having worked with BWW, that means nothing if they are uttetly inconsistent.

Need a2? Here it is.

Need a3? Done


----------



## purple

I'd rather have 2 players. Very rarely is it necessary to have the "exact sound" of 2 players together with winds. If I were writing for orchestra live I might use 2 flutes or 2 oboes on the same line to cut through for the sake of balance but I don't need to do this with samples. In a tutti moment like that, winds are just a color anyways. I can just turn the fader up if I need more oboe in the sound. a2 or a4 and so on patches for winds are not anywhere near as important as it is with brass. Intimate moments and chorales with split parts (where woodwinds really need to be more realistic) would benefit greatly from 2 separate players.


----------



## tcb

a2 or 2 different soloists doesn't matter to me..
Use KONTAKT's tune function can change one semitone but hardly break the realism,then do transpose for compensate in DAW.You will get a new soloist.Only breakes the register range a bit.


----------



## Kent

tcb said:


> a2 or 2 different soloists doesn't matter to me..
> Use KONTAKT's tune function can change one semitone but hardly break the realism,then do transpose for compensate in DAW.You will get a new soloist.Only breakes the register range a bit.


In an orchestral ensemble setting this might be fine, but woodwinds are so variable throughout their tessituras that it can be a tricky game to play.


----------



## Pianolando

In my experience last 300+ years of orchestral music is full of examples with ww in unison, both a’2 and 3. And what I’ve been thought it’s not for extra volume but for the sound of it that blends differently than a solo instrument. Generally, adding an octave adds much volume and “punch” while stacking unis mostly changes the sound. Huge generalization of course, but something like that. 
So IMO one solo and one a’2 patch is a great compromise, and also one some other libraries have chosen, it’s the logical choice if you don’t do three separate of each wind like BWW.


----------



## brek

tcb said:


> a2 or 2 different soloists doesn't matter to me..
> Use KONTAKT's tune function can change one semitone but hardly break the realism,then do transpose for compensate in DAW.You will get a new soloist.Only breakes the register range a bit.



Where I run into issues with this approach is expression maps that are mapped to keyswitches.


----------



## Tremendouz

brek said:


> Where I run into issues with this approach is expression maps that are mapped to keyswitches.


It's not as fast as simply transposing the whole MIDI item but you can just select all the non-keyswitch notes and transpose them which is usually easy enough when the keyswitches are below the playable range


----------



## jamwerks

a2 & a3 is very common. Just take a look at about any score.

It's a tad louder (in a live setting), but more importantly it's "wider" & "thicker", just like in the synth world of 2 or 3 unison voices.


----------



## muk

A due is very common. A tre is common in certain styles. If you look through the scores though, writing two individual lines for two flutes will most often cover about 90% of the score, and a due the remaining 10%. While a2 and a3 do occur in many scores, individual lines are almost always there, and almost always will take up more space than a2/a3. On top of that, a2/a3 is often used in tutti or otherwise busy passages where it is not prominently heard.

So personally I'd much rather have two soloists, so I am covered for 90% of the score and have to 'trick' for the remaining 10%, rather than the other way around. Playing two solo flutes together doesn't quite sound like recorded a2. But using the transposition trick on one solo flute to create two doesn't exactly sound like two different flute players either. Pick your poison.

Given that both options are valid - and two soloists playing happening over larger stretches in the score usually - I find it odd that almost all woodwind libraries go for the a2 patch instead of two soloists.


----------



## Bluemount Score

It's still by far the biggest library of the Cinematic Studio series. Even more instruments would have meant longer production time, costs, you name it... I'm happy with the selection, however I generally rarely like non-soloists for my own woodwind writing.


----------



## Saxer

I'd also prefer single instruments. But in the end it really doesn't matter a lot. In a woodwind section using the á2 flutes as a second flute doesn't make much difference. It's a two voice section sound. For my taste it's easier than dealing with transposed solo patches and switching back and forth between three tracks for two flutes. Same for the other instruments. As long as I don't have an exposed part of two solo flutes playing independent lines it's ok. And for exposed multiple solo parts I would use different libraries anyway.


----------



## erikradbo

I resisted Afflatus, the sale is over. I deserve CSW even more now.


----------



## Bluemount Score

erikradbo said:


> I resisted Afflatus, the sale is over. I deserve CSW even more now.


Same, I even resisted BWW!


----------



## Ashermusic

Saxer said:


> I'd also prefer single instruments. But in the end it really doesn't matter a lot. In a woodwind section using the á2 flutes as a second flute doesn't make much difference. It's a two voice section sound. For my taste it's easier than dealing with transposed solo patches and switching back and forth between three tracks for two flutes. Same for the other instruments. As long as I don't have an exposed part of two solo flutes playing independent lines it's ok. And for exposed multiple solo parts I would use different libraries anyway.



Bingo.


----------



## Leequalizer

Im building a tent out of my old WW libraries instruments to make it comfy in this thread. A place to chill. Better than netflix.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

I cannot wait to play lines with this new library and just let them sit in the mix ... and I look forward to not having to mess around with getting them to sound balanced in a hall with extra reverb tails, crazy eq curves, just playing them in and actually enjoy writing for woodwinds again .... and if the great tone and flexibility of the legatos and articulations in the demos are any indication- then we are in for a treat my friends.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

NathanTiemeyer said:


> I cannot wait to play lines with this new library and just let them sit in the mix ... and I look forward to not having to mess around with getting them to sound balanced in a hall with extra reverb tails, crazy eq curves, just playing them in and actually enjoy writing for woodwinds again .... and if the great tone and flexibility of the legatos and articulations in the demos are any indication- then we are in for a treat my friends.


For Alex & his customers it's a wind-wind situation!


----------



## Grizzlymv

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> See in my view we get the best of both worlds. Well... almost.
> 
> You want 2 independent flutes? Use two solo patched. yes not as "realistic" with two separate players but after having worked with BWW, that means nothing if they are uttetly inconsistent.
> 
> Need a2? Here it is.
> 
> Need a3? Done


In order to use 2 solos in such case, I would probably do a neat trick that someone posted in how to reuse the same instrument twice without having phasing issues. you load the instrument twice, but on one, you lower tone by 2 semi tone on the instrument, and then in Kontakt, you raise it 2 semi-tone, and then on the second instance, you do the other way around. Obiously not as sweet has having 2 standalone recording from 2 different players, but it can work since it won't trigger the same samples for the same note. Anyway, just a thought. That's in part how I cheated a bit with CSS to create a fake Divisi within my sections (A/B). Does the job for my taste.


----------



## Geocranium

I'm not worried about sections vs soloists because my other woodwinds libraries will just become my 2nds/3rds. BWW flute 1? Sorry you've just been demoted to flute 2. I can use the a2 patch if I want to write a2 lines, but my 2nds and 3rds for each instrument family will come from the plethora of other woodwind libraries I own.


----------



## ethormusic

Grizzlymv said:


> In order to use 2 solos in such case, I would probably do a neat trick that someone posted in how to reuse the same instrument twice without having phasing issues. you load the instrument twice, but on one, you lower tone by 2 semi tone on the instrument, and then in Kontakt, you raise it 2 semi-tone, and then on the second instance, you do the other way around. Obiously not as sweet has having 2 standalone recording from 2 different players, but it can work since it won't trigger the same samples for the same note. Anyway, just a thought. That's in part how I cheated a bit with CSS to create a fake Divisi within my sections (A/B). Does the job for my taste.


Interesting idea.


----------



## José Herring

I think the studio is the absolute perfect sound for woodwinds.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

No see if the 2 soloists ever play in unison you switch to the a2 patch. No need to do any transposition tricks (actually you might need it if you play minor 2nds - I hate whole tone sampling)


----------



## purple

I don't disagree that an a2 patch is better than just turning up a fader... I just don't think a2 patches for winds are going to get as much value as 2 seperate soloists. There are cases where both are needed but the amount of cases where searate soloists are needed is greater IMO


SimonCharlesHanna said:


> No see if the 2 soloists ever play in unison you switch to the a2 patch. No need to do any transposition tricks (actually you might need it if you play minor 2nds - I hate whole tone sampling)


That would be an abrupt change in the sound that would stand out. Much easier to use the transposition trick if you're writing a line that goes in an out of unison.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

purple said:


> I don't disagree that an a2 patch is better than just turning up a fader... I just don't think a2 patches for winds are going to get as much value as 2 seperate soloists. There are cases where both are needed but the amount of cases where searate soloists are needed
> 
> That would be an abrupt change in the sound that would stand out. Much easier to use the transposition trick if you're writing a line that goes in an out of unison.


No issues when I do it and I am very critical (but what ever works for ya). With Alex's attention to detail it should only be easier to do.


----------



## LamaRose

Sounds wonderful, Alex. I trust you and the kangaroos have recovered from the 2019 inferno.


----------



## jbuhler

erikradbo said:


> I resisted Afflatus, the sale is over. I deserve CSW even more now.


That’s the spirit! Your GAS credentials are fully reinstated!


----------



## antames

Grizzlymv said:


> In order to use 2 solos in such case, I would probably do a neat trick that someone posted in how to reuse the same instrument twice without having phasing issues. you load the instrument twice, but on one, you lower tone by 2 semi tone on the instrument, and then in Kontakt, you raise it 2 semi-tone, and then on the second instance, you do the other way around. Obiously not as sweet has having 2 standalone recording from 2 different players, but it can work since it won't trigger the same samples for the same note. Anyway, just a thought. That's in part how I cheated a bit with CSS to create a fake Divisi within my sections (A/B). Does the job for my taste.



And you can also offset the delay of each solo just a tad by a few ms so they are playing just the slightest of slighty's out of time with each other.


----------



## Grizzlymv

antames said:


> And you can also offset the delay of each solo just a tad by a few ms so they are playing just the slightest of slighty's out of time with each other.


That's a nice trick I didn't think about. Would definitely help as well. thanks for that.


----------



## Casiquire

The point of putting two players on the same line isn't always volume, in fact it doesn't make as much of a volume difference as you'd think. The bigger point is the tone color change. It's like double tracking. I'd rather have a separate player that blends well though versus a recorded a2. I tend to feel that too many recorded groups like that can start to sound like an organ, versus several players played in separately with slight CC variation


----------



## jamwerks

In the real world, going from solo to à2 only adds about 10% in volume iinm. When there are 2 (Fl.) solo parts, I prefer to use separate libraries anyway.


----------



## Rob Elliott

antames said:


> And you can also offset the delay of each solo just a tad by a few ms so they are playing just the slightest of slighty's out of time with each other.


Hmmm - hadn't thought to do that. For long sustaining parts is there ANY phasing using this method?


----------



## Ashermusic

Casiquire said:


> The point of putting two players on the same line isn't always volume, in fact it doesn't make as much of a volume difference as you'd think. The bigger point is the tone color change. It's like double tracking. I'd rather have a separate player that blends well though versus a recorded a2. I tend to feel that too many recorded groups like that can start to sound like an organ, versus several players played in separately with slight CC variation



In a big sounding piece, I will take the a2 gratefully. In a more intimate piece, the two solos.


----------



## erikradbo

jbuhler said:


> That’s the spirit! Your GAS credentials are fully reinstated!



I caved and got Afflatus today, after the official sale was done. I feel dirty.


----------



## Robert_G

erikradbo said:


> I caved and got Afflatus today, after the official sale was done. I feel dirty.



That's insanity. Paying double 2 days after the sale was over....how will you sleep at night?


----------



## erikradbo

Robert_G said:


> That's insanity. Paying double 2 days after the sale was over....how will you sleep at night?



The reason I didn’t buy it earlier was that I by mistake had a Sonarworks systemwide headphone preset on my monitors, affecting everything that came out of my browser for at least a couple of days. I didn’t like the timbre of Afflatus at all, not until I realized what was going on and turned it off. True story. 

I emailed them, and they were very nice and gave me a grace period on the sale price.


----------



## RMH

The banner came up first. Oh, my God... I can't wait any longer. Come on!!!
This time woodwind color is green.


----------



## I like music

RMH said:


> The banner came up first. Oh, my God... I can't wait any longer. Come on!!!
> This time woodwind color is green.



Has to be imminent. You (generally) don't want to spend your marketing budget leading people to a site, with no option to buy. Although, I see it is leading you to the main site, so they're just making sure that the hype generated by the winds can be leveraged as a reminder to people that CSS and CSB exist, and are right there to buy.

But still, the banners have changed from CSS to CSW on _my_ end any way. Super duper close I'd say.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

RMH said:


> The banner came up first. Oh, my God... I can't wait any longer. Come on!!!
> This time woodwind color is green.




Somebody hold me. I think I might faint 

EDIT: Just saw the banner ad pop up for me now too! This is probably the happiest I've ever been to see a banner ad ....


----------



## ethormusic

I like music said:


> Has to be imminent. You (generally) don't want to spend your marketing budget leading people to a site, with no option to buy. Although, I see it is leading you to the main site, so they're just making sure that the hype generated by the winds can be leveraged as a reminder to people that CSS and CSB exist, and are right there to buy.
> 
> But still, the banners have changed from CSS to CSW on _my_ end any way. Super duper close I'd say.


I'm prepared for it to be another week or two away, but if it comes out sooner than that even better!


----------



## VivianaSings

I also prefer 2 soloists as well. I think the only solution to this would be a CSW second winds to be released before Percussion! I know Alex wants nothing more than to get back into the studio with more winds. 

Actually I prefer soloists for most of my writing so it'd be amazing to get a CSW/B second instruments with second and thirds for the brass (and a 4th for the horn) and seconds for the winds.

It's probably not as hard as you think - he's already got his leadsheets worked out for what the soloists need to play and all the scripting for the soloists is already done. It's just a matter of calling in a couple of more musicians for each instrument, having them play down the music, and then editing and plugging in the samples to existing scripting.


----------



## Buz

I like music said:


> Has to be imminent. You (generally) don't want to spend your marketing budget leading people to a site, with no option to buy.


On the other hand, observing the reaction would be totally worth the price of admission.


----------



## Bluemount Score

RMH said:


> The banner came up first. Oh, my God... I can't wait any longer. Come on!!!
> This time woodwind color is green.



Hold up, I don't want the library, I just want this thread!


----------



## Architekton

My wallet is ready!


----------



## muziksculp

Please make a line ... The cash register will open soon


----------



## Bluemount Score

Architekton said:


> My wallet is ready!


These ~ $300 (?) will be instantly gone for me

Let it be $400, I don't care.


----------



## purple

VivianaSings said:


> I also prefer 2 soloists as well. I think the only solution to this would be a CSW second winds to be released before Percussion! I know Alex wants nothing more than to get back into the studio with more winds.
> 
> Actually I prefer soloists for most of my writing so it'd be amazing to get a CSW/B second instruments with second and thirds for the brass (and a 4th for the horn) and seconds for the winds.
> 
> It's probably not as hard as you think - he's already got his leadsheets worked out for what the soloists need to play and all the scripting for the soloists is already done. It's just a matter of calling in a couple of more musicians for each instrument, having them play down the music, and then editing and plugging in the samples to existing scripting.


I'd like that but honestly I'd rather they make a symphonic series or something to give them an excuse to record brass in a bigger room.


----------



## pawelmorytko

purple said:


> I'd like that but honestly I'd rather they make a symphonic series or something to give them an excuse to record brass in a bigger room.


Me too, there's nothing I'd like more than for Alex to do a Cinematic Symphonic Series. Okay maybe there's one thing... AR One - the symphonic modular sections, provided those are extremely well recorded and deeply sampled, consistent across articulations, dynamics, legato etc, and also nice and playable with easy workflow


----------



## purple

pawelmorytko said:


> Me too, there's nothing I'd like more than for Alex to do a Cinematic Symphonic Series. Okay maybe there's one thing... AR One - the symphonic modular sections, provided those are extremely well recorded and deeply sampled, consistent across articulations, dynamics, legato etc, and also nice and playable with easy workflow


I'd kill to have an alternate timeline where instead of the buggy spitfire microtransaction library having an exclusivity deal with AR it was CS series instead...


----------



## Bluemount Score

I bet Alex is stalking this thread, checking if we noticed the banner as quickly as it was released


----------



## Robert_G

That banner should be good for another 200 posts before morning.....


----------



## Bluemount Score

Robert_G said:


> That banner should be good for another 200 posts before morning.....


Alex W.: _*sneezes*_

Half VI-Control: OMG the best sampled legato I have ever heard!!


----------



## Michael Stibor

The timing is perfect. Just got paid on a composing job I did. I have money to spend. Just release it already!


----------



## muziksculp

Michael Stibor said:


> The timing is perfect. Just got paid on a composing job I did. I have money to spend. Just release it already!



Please wait in line.. The Cash Register is not open yet.


----------



## Architekton

So, no one opened Cinematic Studio Percussions thread yet? Blasphemy!!!


----------



## Michael Stibor

muziksculp said:


> Please wait in line.. The Cash Register is not open yet.


I am not against budding in line. I have no shame!


----------



## muziksculp

Architekton said:


> So, no one opened Cinematic Studio Percussions thread yet? Blasphemy!!!



Do it !


----------



## Thundercat

Forgive me gang; I can't seem to find the root of this thread - are y'all saying there is an upcoming CWW? I see ppl talking about it but I can't find the announcement...thx


----------



## Bluemount Score

Thundercat said:


> Forgive me gang; I can't seem to find the root of this thread - are y'all saying there is an upcoming CWW? I see ppl talking about it but I can't find the announcement...thx


That's the funny part, no announcement needed for the hype of this one


----------



## Thundercat

Bluemount Score said:


> That's the funny part, no announcement needed for the hype of this one


K thx. I went back to page 40 and ppl were talking as though it had been announced...scratching my head ta


----------



## Cheezus

I don't own a single Cinematic Studio library and even I got excited to see that banner. I'm so happy for everyone in this meme thread.


----------



## dbudimir

M.....U.....S.....T t...r...y t...o g...e...t t...h...i...s t...h...r...e...a...d t...o 1...0...0 p...a...g...e...s b...e...f...o...r...e t...h...e r...e...l...e...a...s...e


----------



## jbuhler

erikradbo said:


> The reason I didn’t buy it earlier was that I by mistake had a Sonarworks systemwide headphone preset on my monitors, affecting everything that came out of my browser for at least a couple of days. I didn’t like the timbre of Afflatus at all, not until I realized what was going on and turned it off. True story.
> 
> I emailed them, and they were very nice and gave me a grace period on the sale price.


I mean, you do realize that buying Afflatus in no way alleviates you of the requirement to buy CSW if you want to keep your GAS in good standing, right?


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

RMH said:


> The banner came up first. Oh, my God... I can't wait any longer. Come on!!!
> This time woodwind color is green.


Hey, wow! As for the green color, I hit the bull's-eye at the end of August this year on *page 37!*
Alex high five buddy!


----------



## cqd

I still haven't seen the banner!.. not cool..


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

cqd said:


> I still haven't seen the banner!.. not cool..


It appears on the right side. If you have an ad blocker enabled, you won't see it.


----------



## ProfoundSilence

A banner without any updates? Alex you're a terrible human. XD


----------



## cqd

Announced Monday surely..

Out the 21st is my final prediction..


----------



## RMH

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Hey, wow! As for the green color, I hit the bull's-eye at the end of August this year on *page 37!*
> Alex high five buddy!


WOW!!! Amzaing! It's really pretty. Thank you!


----------



## Gerbil

Oh no ... why did I discover the demos!


----------



## Casiquire

ProfoundSilence said:


> A banner without any updates? Alex you're a terrible human. XD


What do you mean no updates? He dropped the instrument lineup and two mini demos just a few days ago


----------



## Fox

Casiquire said:


> What do you mean no updates? He dropped the instrument lineup and two mini demos just a few days ago


Anyone have links? We’re they posted here? Must have missed it. Thanks!


----------



## Adam Takacs

Fox said:


> Anyone have links? We’re they posted here? Must have missed it. Thanks!








Cinematic Studio Woodwinds


With 53 pages before the library or even a teaser of it is released, is this the most anticipated library in sample history? Or are we all just a little goofy? Why not both




vi-control.net


----------



## Fox

Adam Takacs said:


> Cinematic Studio Woodwinds
> 
> 
> With 53 pages before the library or even a teaser of it is released, is this the most anticipated library in sample history? Or are we all just a little goofy? Why not both
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vi-control.net


Thank you!


----------



## Michael Stibor

cqd said:


> Announced Monday surely..
> 
> Out the 21st is my final prediction..


I predict it will be sooner than that. The 21st is very close to Christmas. A little too close. At that point, it'd probably be better to wait until January when everyone is sitting around with Christmas money in hand and nothing to do. Not that I want to give them that idea! My point is the opposite Alex! Release it sooner!


----------



## prodigalson

I think itll be earlier than the 21st. I imagine they wont want to be dealing with support requests over the christmas period and definitely don't want to wait until Jan. 

just my 2c


----------



## jamwerks

It's probably at NI for encoding.


----------



## ridgero

Can we please rename the title of the thread to "Cinematic Studio Woodwinds!" when it's released


----------



## Michael Stibor

jamwerks said:


> It's probably at NI for encoding.


My thoughts too. If I'm not mistaken, for CSB it was about a week between announcement and release.


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Well, well, well! I was waiting for this banner to appear, and lo and behold!!


----------



## RogiervG

ridgero said:


> Can we please rename the title of the thread to "Cinematic Studio Woodwinds!" when it's released



Nah.. just a completely new thread.
"Cinematic studio woodwinds released!"


----------



## Tremendouz

What excites me the most about this library is that I get a good reason to learn to write for woodwinds... And put them *everywhere*


----------



## muziksculp

Hopefully it will be released any day next week.


----------



## Rob Elliott

RogiervG said:


> Nah.. just a completely new thread.
> "Cinematic studio woodwinds released!"


Yes - my vote for this. Let's archive this behemoth thread. A new thread will have more relevancy.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Eventually, there will be multiple threads anyways after it's released..


----------



## cqd

Michael Stibor said:


> My thoughts too. If I'm not mistaken, for CSB it was about a week between announcement and release.


It was definitely a couple of weeks..


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

I can’t afford it after getting a big dentist bill the other day. But I‘m so much looking forward to hearing the library in action, so you guys gotta post tons of examples of you using it when it’s released


----------



## I like music

hbjdk said:


> I can’t afford it after getting a big dentist bill the other day. But I‘m so much looking forward to hearing the library in action, so you guys gotta post tons of examples of you using it when it’s released



Who needs teeth anyway?

Sorry to hear that. I'm also in a similar boat right now due to car trouble, so will have to push this purchase off somewhere deep into 2021.

Looking forward to the demos.


----------



## Robert_G

I've had this money put away in a container for almost 6 months now. Instabuy.


----------



## cqd

Robert_G said:


> I've had this money put away in a container for almost 6 months now. Instabuy.



Jeez.. I thought your sig was a link to the site for a minute.. nearly had a heart attack..


----------



## ansthenia

I can't wait to buy CSW and immediately feel like I still need more woodwind libraries ❤


----------



## Bluemount Score

ansthenia said:


> I can't wait to buy CSW and immediately feel like I still need more woodwind libraries ❤


Well, CSS is my favorit workhorse string library, same for CSB. So I can hope same goes for CSW!


----------



## constaneum

And we need CSH, Cinematic Studio Harp. Eheh


----------



## Bluemount Score

constaneum said:


> And we need CSH, Cinematic Studio Harp. Eheh


I thought about this and maaayyybe there could be a Harp in the percussion library? I know it's not really a percussion instrument, but e.g. BBCSO handled it that way. If not, I at least hope for a nice Celeste. Wait, wrong thread...


----------



## cqd

Imagine Hollywood Woodwinds were better than it when they come out..


----------



## Sebanimation

I can't wait to finally leave the limited woodwinds of Albion behind and dive into some deeper woodwind scoring! Those Sound Demos sound really motivating


----------



## jneebz

If you hover over "WOODWINDS" on the top menu of the CS website, *THE CURSOR NOW CHANGES TO INDICATE A LINK* rather than remaining a mouse pointer.

JUST SAYING.


----------



## Robert_G

jneebz said:


> If you hover over "WOODWINDS" on the top menu of the CS website, *THE CURSOR NOW CHANGES TO INDICATE A LINK* rather than remaining a mouse pointer.
> 
> JUST SAYING.



Not for me..... 

Edit: Didn't it always do this? The Percussion does the same thing....


----------



## Robert_G

Anyways......could there be a chance of a Monday release?


----------



## RogiervG

Robert_G said:


> Anyways......could there be a chance of a Monday release?


not monday, but tuesday! or was it wednessday or thursday or friday or...


----------



## jneebz

Robert_G said:


> Edit: Didn't it always do this? The Percussion does the same thing....


On my Mac it was always just a mouse pointer


----------



## ethormusic

Out of curiosity I was looking up in my email what the loyalty discount price was for Cinematic Studio Brass... if CSW's loyalty discount ends up being similarly priced... I will be all the more excited on release day.


----------



## I like music

Woah! Check out the website...!!!

This developer seems to have a really good sounding strings library there called Cinematic Studio Strings. Definitely worth checking it out.


----------



## I like music

ethormusic said:


> Out of curiosity I was looking up in my email what the loyalty discount price was for Cinematic Studio Brass... if CSW's loyalty discount ends up being similarly priced... I will be all the more excited on release day.



Fingers crossed it'll be a similar sort of discount for owners. Throws a wrench into a few other life plans.


----------



## Eptesicus

ethormusic said:


> Out of curiosity I was looking up in my email what the loyalty discount price was for Cinematic Studio Brass... if CSW's loyalty discount ends up being similarly priced... I will be all the more excited on release day.



I'm assuming and fully expecting it to be the the same. 

Cant see why they would upend their so far pretty consistent pricing structure.


----------



## I like music

Eptesicus said:


> I'm assuming and fully expecting it to be the the same.
> 
> Cant see why they would upend their so far pretty consistent pricing structure.


Expecting their discount policy to be as consistent as the legatos.


----------



## fourier

Eptesicus said:


> I'm assuming and fully expecting it to be the the same.
> 
> Cant see why they would upend their so far pretty consistent pricing structure.



They have confirmed that CSS customers will automatically receive an email with a discount code for CSW.


----------



## Bluemount Score

I like music said:


> Woah! Check out the website...!!!
> 
> This developer seems to have a really good sounding strings library there called Cinematic Studio Strings. Definitely worth checking it out.


----------



## purple

I'm getting _even more_ confident the library will release at some point...


----------



## Rob Elliott

Can I ask a favor of this community. Once it is release, go ahead a buy away, but don't start your download UNTIL I have completed mine. Servers are going to fry on this one and I just want to be sure I maintain my place at the head this line. Besides, I know for sure Alex likes me best - he's as much told me so.

Once I have confirmed that all files have been successfully grabbed - I'll do the right thing and IMMEDIATELY let everyone know they can NOW start the download.

Thank you in advance.


(notice the lack of emojis - I am dead serious.)



EDIT: I just realized this came off a bit like I have a narcissistic personality disorder. For that I am not sorry, because it really is all about me. However, I am not above other desirable human traits to offer my thank you once AGAIN for my request above.


----------



## ethormusic

Eptesicus said:


> I'm assuming and fully expecting it to be the the same.
> 
> Cant see why they would upend their so far pretty consistent pricing structure.


Exactly. I was really just curious how much the last loyalty discount was. $279 is a fantastic loyalty discount!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

When I saw that CSW was going to have a green UI, all I could think about was this:


----------



## Altauria

Oh dear, that jacket...


----------



## Peter Wayne

constaneum said:


> And we need CSH, Cinematic Studio Harp. Eheh


Honestly, that's exactly what I need! I've never really found a good harp sound that I like. Surely they can get a harp done fairly quickly before the percussion .


----------



## ethormusic

Peter Wayne said:


> Honestly, that's exactly what I need! I've never really found a good harp sound that I like. Surely they can get a harp done fairly quickly before the percussion .


More importantly than a harp, AW should make a competator specific to some of Cineperc's instruments. I'm personally hoping for Cinematic Studio Typewriters before the end of 2021!


----------



## constaneum

fourier said:


> They have confirmed that CSS customers will automatically receive an email with a discount code for CSW.



CSS only? i wonder whether CSS+CSSS+CSB+CSP owners will get special discount or not. hehe


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

constaneum said:


> CSS only? i wonder whether CSS+CSSS+CSB+CSP owners will get special discount or not. hehe


Alex will have to pay _us _to take CSW


----------



## antames

I am also looking forward to CSA, CSC, CSD, CSE, CSF, CSG, CSH, CSI, CSJ, CSK, CSL, CSM, CSN, CSO, CSP, CSQ, CSR, CST, CSU, CSV, CSX, CSY, and CSZ.


----------



## CATDAD

antames said:


> I am also looking forward to CSA, CSC, CSD, CSE, CSF, CSG, CSH, CSI, CSJ, CSK, CSL, CSM, CSN, CSO, CSP, CSQ, CSR, CST, CSU, CSV, CSX, CSY, and CSZ.



I think _everyone_ here is growing impatient for Cinematic Studio Zithers by now.


----------



## Tremendouz

I don't know, I'm more about the upcoming Cinematic Studio Kazoo.


----------



## Leequalizer

What instrument would Alex release in collab with Patrik Star? Cinematic Studio Mayonnaise!


----------



## Fry777

Tremendouz said:


> I don't know, I'm more about the upcoming Cinematic Studio Kazoo.



The only missing tool to mock up Chicken Run's Main Title track :


----------



## Bluemount Score

CSB was released on December 10th 2018. Maybe we get CSW exactly two years later?


----------



## Beans

Bluemount Score said:


> CSB was released on December 10th 2018. Maybe we get CSW exactly two years later?



Releasing near the end of the week isn't necessarily ideal, since it means you're loading your first few days of support over the weekend.


----------



## wst3

Beans said:


> Releasing near the end of the week isn't necessarily ideal, since it means you're loading your first few days of support over the weekend.


I heard support folks LOVE that!!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Beans said:


> Releasing near the end of the week isn't necessarily ideal, since it means you're loading your first few days of support over the weekend.


Makes sense to me, didn't think that far!

Fine, I can wait till next monday


----------



## Tremendouz

I just want it before leaving for xmas holidays with a laptop that has neither sufficient RAM or storage


----------



## prodigalson

Beans said:


> Releasing near the end of the week isn't necessarily ideal, since it means you're loading your first few days of support over the weekend.



Except, Spitfire Audio at least virtually ALWAYS release on a Thursday at 5pm their time


----------



## Casiquire

I like music said:


> Woah! Check out the website...!!!
> 
> This developer seems to have a really good sounding strings library there called Cinematic Studio Strings. Definitely worth checking it out.


It must not be too good, otherwise I'm sure people would talk about it more


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

Cinematic Su-Su-Studio


----------



## RSK

Rob Elliott said:


> Can I ask a favor of this community. Once it is release, go ahead a buy away, but don't start your download UNTIL I have completed mine. Servers are going to fry on this one and I just want to be sure I maintain my place at the head this line. Besides, I know for sure Alex likes me best - he's as much told me so.
> 
> Once I have confirmed that all files have been successfully grabbed - I'll do the right thing and IMMEDIATELY let everyone know they can NOW start the download.
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> 
> (notice the lack of emojis - I am dead serious.)
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: I just realized this came off a bit like I have a narcissistic personality disorder. For that I am not sorry, because it really is all about me. However, I am not above other desirable human traits to offer my thank you once AGAIN for my request above.


Anyone who has a problem with this request obviously doesn't understand the concept of "dibs."


----------



## Rob Elliott

RSK said:


> Anyone who has a problem with this request obviously doesn't understand the concept of "dibs."


For sure. I 'called it'. Nuff' said.


----------



## ethormusic

Beans said:


> Releasing near the end of the week isn't necessarily ideal, since it means you're loading your first few days of support over the weekend.


Based on the release dates of CSS, CSSS, and CSB if CSW doesn't come out tomorrow (Wednesday) it'll probably be released sometime next week.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Why should CSW be released on the same number date as CSB? 
How bored do you have to be to come up with that idea?  Alex, the numeric mysticist?  I don't think so haha... it will be released when it's ready. Period.


----------



## Bluemount Score

DarkestShadow said:


> Why should CSW be released on the same number date as CSB?
> How bored do you have to be to come up with that idea?  Alex, the numeric mysticist?  I don't think so haha... it will be released when it's ready. Period.


Not bored, but for sure procrastinating. Small but important difference!


----------



## I like music

DarkestShadow said:


> How bored do I have to be to respond to that idea?



Fixed it for you


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

I like music said:


> Fixed it for you


well, it's a boring thread! Easy!


----------



## Bluemount Score

DarkestShadow said:


> well, it's a boring thread! Easy!


Some may say so, others don't 


Alex W said:


> Now that that's out of the way, I do follow this thread because let's face it, it's fun and hilarious.


----------



## ethormusic

DarkestShadow said:


> Why should CSW be released on the same number date as CSB?
> How bored do you have to be to come up with that idea?  Alex, the numeric mysticist?  I don't think so haha... it will be released when it's ready. Period.


Because Jesus said so.


----------



## I like music

DarkestShadow said:


> well, it's a boring thread! Easy!


Haha. I hope it spices up nicely after all these buyers put their demos up.


----------



## Toecutter

DarkestShadow said:


> Why should CSW be released on the same number date as CSB?
> How bored do you have to be to come up with that idea?  Alex, the numeric mysticist?  I don't think so haha... it will be released when it's ready. Period.


Found the party pooper!


----------



## tcb

kmaster said:


> In an orchestral ensemble setting this might be fine, but woodwinds are so variable throughout their tessituras that it can be a tricky game to play.


Agree with you.

And I found another thing.
After seaching on the internet and checking my librarys,I find most librarys sampled whole tone instead of semi-tone.Not sure if it is the case for CSW,but if they sampled whole tone,tune in KONTAKT is useless.It will cause phasing.（or tune a minor third??)


----------



## jamwerks

Imo it's probably better that they sample whole tone or even every minor-third. The timbral changes are minimal-to-impercievable shifting a sample by only a semi-tone, and it greatly reduces ram usage.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

jamwerks said:


> Imo it's probably better that they sample whole tone or even every minor-third. The timbral changes are minimal-to-impercievable shifting a sample by only a semi-tone, and it greatly reduces ram usage.


I disagree for a variety of reasons. Minor 2nds are essentially out of the question with this sort of sampling. As great as Cinematic Studio Series is, the whole tone sampling is a let down.

The last thing sampling needs is more shortcuts.


----------



## Trash Panda

I’ve read this entire thread from the beginning (not in one sitting), and I just want to say thank you to all the fanatics for the entertainment.


----------



## Casiquire

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I disagree for a variety of reasons. Minor 2nds are essentially out of the question with this sort of sampling. As great as Cinematic Studio Series is, the whole tone sampling is a let down.
> 
> The last thing sampling needs is more shortcuts.


Minor seconds aren't out of the question, but in general i agree with you, I'm not a huge fan of whole tone sampling as a concept even though it's true that you can't necessarily "tell"


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Casiquire said:


> Minor seconds aren't out of the question, but in general i agree with you, I'm not a huge fan of whole tone sampling as a concept even though it's true that you can't necessarily "tell"


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Casiquire said:


> Minor seconds aren't out of the question, but in general i agree with you, I'm not a huge fan of whole tone sampling as a concept even though it's true that you can't necessarily "tell"


If you can't really tell why are you against it?

I prefer whole tone sampling because

- Semi-tone sampling is essentially twice the work for a minimal to non-existent effect. As you said, one can barely tell. 

- Because it's twice the work it's kinda like making the same library twice and thus most likely there will be some missing finesse in some areas. It's always easier to focus on getting a smaller workload truly right rather than a much larger one, in the knowledge that barely anyone will care/notice. So the slightly better sound quality could easy be outweighed by less finesse and more bugs due to having to deal with so many samples.

- The musicians will get even more bored than from a normal session, leading to less expressive samples. Certainly sampling sessions are already frustrating enough for many musicians, no need to double on that for a slightly better sonic quality. Which, if my points are accurate, will be swallowed by the other issues I noted.

- The download, storage and RAM count will also be doubled - which is especially dramatic for legatos. One legato patch can easily fill 1 GB Ram, with whole tone sampling it's 2 GB. So if you have an orchestral piece with 20 legato patches, your RAM could go from 20 GB to 40. 

- If the same finesse applied to a semi-tone sample library is the same as for a whole tone lib the production time will also double. So, we might get CSB now and then wait for 2 years for CSW.

- The price will certainly be way higher too because much more money has to be "recouped". 

I'd say for these massive hurdles the effect better be a bit bigger than _well, you can't necessarily tell, but whole-tone sampling just not a cool concept._


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

SimonCharlesHanna said:


>



Well, duh... you can't do clusters with sustain patches ... terrible!  
Easy to work around that... transposition trick, different sections etc.. 
Not a justification for the insane task of doing twice the work.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

DarkestShadow said:


> Well, duh... you can't do clusters with sustain patches ... terrible!
> Easy to work around that... transposition trick, different sections etc..
> Not a justification for the insane task of doing twice the work.


Yeah because that's what I love doing after spending hundreds if not thousands on samples.. to mangle them so they sound like they are suppose to.

Also no idea what you're talking about regarding sustain patches - it's an issue across every articulation.


----------



## Casiquire

DarkestShadow said:


> If you can't really tell why are you against it?
> 
> I prefer whole tone sampling because
> 
> - Semi-tone sampling is essentially twice the work for a minimal to non-existent effect. As you said, one can barely tell.
> 
> - Because it's twice the work it's kinda like making the same library twice and thus most likely there will be some missing finesse in some areas. It's always easier to focus on getting a smaller workload truly right rather than a much larger one, in the knowledge that barely anyone will care/notice. So the slightly better sound quality could easy be outweighed by less finesse and more bugs due to having to deal with so many samples.
> 
> - The musicians will get even more bored than from a normal session, leading to less expressive samples. Certainly sampling sessions are already frustrating enough for many musicians, no need to double on that for a slightly better sonic quality. Which, if my points are accurate, will be swallowed by the other issues I noted.
> 
> - The download, storage and RAM count will also be doubled - which is especially dramatic for legatos. One legato patch can easily fill 1 GB Ram, with whole tone sampling it's 2 GB. So if you have an orchestral piece with 20 legato patches, your RAM could go from 20 GB to 40.
> 
> - If the same finesse applied to a semi-tone sample library is the same as for a whole tone lib the production time will also double. So, we might get CSB now and then wait for 2 years for CSW.
> 
> - The price will certainly be way higher too because much more money has to be "recouped".
> 
> I'd say for these massive hurdles the effect better be a bit bigger than _well, you can't necessarily tell, but whole-tone sampling just not a cool concept._


Because we need more samples, not fewer. We need more things like round robin legato and more variation of note onsets, not half the number of sampled attacks and the like


----------



## Land of Missing Parts

SimonCharlesHanna said:


>



Rockin' tune.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Rockin' tune.


Thanks man! Took me all day but it's really starting to come together.


----------



## Casiquire

SimonCharlesHanna said:


>



Eh, there's a reason I opt for libraries that don't require stacking the same players so many times. Divisi and individual players all the way!


----------



## Robert_G

Did anyone email Alex today?


----------



## ethormusic

How do we even know that whole tone sampling was the method Alex used when the back end to Cinematic Studio Series in Kontakt is locked?


----------



## purple

ethormusic said:


> How do we even know that whole tone sampling was the method Alex used when the back end to Cinematic Studio Series in Kontakt is locked?


You can hear that the samples are the same if you go a half step up or down...


----------



## Casiquire

Robert_G said:


> Did anyone email Alex today?


Who's on rotation? Check the calendar


----------



## mojamusic

Man, those demos from Alex are fantastic!


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Casiquire said:


> Who's on rotation? Check the calendar


I live in Australia. Maybe it's time for in-person visits?


----------



## ethormusic

purple said:


> You can hear that the samples are the same if you go a half step up or down...


Ah okay.

But I think AW's superb scripting for Cinematic Studio Series makes up for this... limitation... that plenty of other libraries seem to have too.


----------



## Geocranium

It's funny, I've owned all of the cinematic series products as long as they've been released, and it wasn't until now that I learned they were sampled that way. I think that's pretty good evidence, at least to myself, at how subtle the negatives are to the technique.


----------



## Tremendouz

Geocranium said:


> It's funny, I've owned all of the cinematic series products as long as they've been released, and it wasn't until now that I learned they were sampled that way. I think that's pretty good evidence, at least to myself, at how subtle the negatives are to the technique.


Same. But, the sampling really has to be top notch for this to work. I have Auddict's solo woodwinds and there's quite a noticeable volume bump in the middle of a certain non-legato flute sustain sample (and there are only 2 dynamic layers afaik) which really sticks out if you somehow happen to play 2 (3?) notes one after another that are one semitone apart from each other.


----------



## I like music

Whole tone sampling would have been problematic if, when the woodwinds are released, you could hear someone shouting "Crickey, we gotta fackin' hurry up if we wanna release these by Christmas shrimp time. Bonza!" in the background of both C3 _and _C#3.

However, if we can't hear Alex's very Australian urgings to his players during the sampling sessions, we'll be OK.

That said, something about semi-tone sampling I like the idea of, even though I had no idea that the Cinematic Serie was stretched this way.


----------



## ThomasNL

I like music said:


> Whole tone sampling would have been problematic if, when the woodwinds are released, you could hear someone shouting "Crickey, we gotta fackin' hurry up if we wanna release these by Christmas shrimp time. Bonza!" in the background of both C3 _and _C#3.
> 
> However, if we can't hear Alex's very Australian urgings to his players during the sampling sessions, we'll be OK.
> 
> That said, something about semi-tone sampling I like the idea of, even though I had no idea that the Cinematic Serie was stretched this way.


Thanks to you i will now be let down if this isn't in the library.

All jokes aside, the whole tone discussion shows why we should be glad there are so many library companies. If you really want semi-tone libraries, go to orchestral tools. If you want light weight stuff, check out the Infinite series. Etc, etc etc. I do think they should be transparent about the method they used so we can ajust accordingly.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

ThomasNL said:


> If you really want semi-tone libraries, go to orchestral tools. If you want light weight stuff, check out the Infinite series.


Well umm... Orchestral Tools don't do semi-tone sampling and Infinite series do.

but I do agree with you, they should be much more transparent.


----------



## purple

ethormusic said:


> Ah okay.
> 
> But I think AW's superb scripting for Cinematic Studio Series makes up for this... limitation... that plenty of other libraries seem to have too.


I haven't noticed or cared up until this thread... I don't think it matters at all. If it ever does, there are workarounds anyways.


----------



## cqd

I think they should sample microtonally..


----------



## Dima Lanski

ThomasNL said:


> If you really want semi-tone libraries, go to orchestral tools.


The OT's Berlin series and Arks are major scale sampled. Spitfire libraries that I know of are whole-tone sampled. So is the Cinematic Studio series. And Strezov as well. It seems to be the industry standard for the moment. I wonder if there are any "wet" recorded libraries that do semi-tone sampling at all?

Apart from phasing in the minor seconds, the main issue of this approach is somewhat unrealistic room tone on the stretched notes. Especially when a note hits a resonant frequency of the room. You can hear the resonance going a semi-tone up, instead of staying on the same frequency.

Another problem is the open strings for the string section. They have no vibrato and are doubled a semi-tone up in some libraries. It's easy to fix by either recording a separate sample for the open strings or stretching down the note above instead of stretching up the lowest note. Some libraries do that, but many don't.


----------



## jamwerks

Well with semi-tone sampling we get: twice the ram hit & much more expensive to produce, for a difference we can't even hear. If you want more realism, it's not there you need to be looking...


----------



## Dima Lanski

jamwerks said:


> Well with semi-tone sampling we get: twice the ram hit & much more expensive to produce, for a difference we can't even hear. If you want more realism, it's not there you need to be looking...


I agree, it's a compromise.

But I think most of us can hear the difference, we just don't always know what it's caused by. People often refer to this kind of issues as "inconsistencies". Or they just say it doesn't feel/sound right. I'm pointing out the issues, so that the next time someone encounters them, they can have an idea of what the cause is and how to deal with it.

I also wish library developers payed attention to the special notes of the sampled instruments, like the open strings of the string section, and to resonant frequencies of their rooms. This doesn't require twice as much samples, but just a little bit more for a few special notes.


----------



## thesteelydane

Dima Lanski said:


> I also wish library developers payed special attention to the open strings of the string section and resonant frequencies of their rooms, and recorded additional samples to avoid the issues mentioned above. This doesn't require twice as much samples, but just a little bit more for a few special notes.



I agree with this, and it’s my only issue with CSS, which would otherwise be a perfect library. The second to lowest note in all sections is an open string stretched up, so it has no vibrato - seems like a bizarre oversight (or deliberate decision?), for such a otherwise perfect product. I mentioned it to Alex a long time ago, so maybe we’ll get a fix.

Apart from that I sample in whole tones myself. Sampling chromatically not only doubles recording time, and all associated costs, but also editing time. That would have made Bunker Strings a well over 1000 working hour project, and I wouldn’t have been able to sell it at the price I do.

Sampling chromatically is of course better for realism, but in the end I just don’t think most people are willing to pay for chromatic sampling, or take double the RAM hit, when the difference in sound quality is so negligible.

Sorry to go of ok a tangent, back to CSW which I’m very, very much looking forward to!


----------



## jamwerks

Imo, when you hear inconsistencies, it's not because the note has been tuned-up. We'd have to do a blind test though. And there's so much going on in a mix, there's nothing wrong or unmusical about all these micro-micro "artifacts". With multi-mic's (and multiple libraries) we already have dozens of different "ambiences" going on, and that's what we want to hear! Sounds better that way.

For the strings, they don't usually record open strings (except obviously the lowest), because string players avoid those pretty much anyway. That's not usually something we "want" to hear.


----------



## Sovereign

thesteelydane said:


> I agree with this, and it’s my only issue with CSS, which would otherwise be a perfect library. The second to lowest note in all sections is an open string stretched up, so it has no vibrato - seems like a bizarre oversight (or deliberate decision?), for such a otherwise perfect product. I mentioned it to Alex a long time ago, so maybe we’ll get a fix.


I discussed this with Alex too, actually (you're not the only one). He feels - given there's no dedicated sample - stretching the open string up just sounded better than stretching the next note down. Who knows, if Alex ever gets the opportunity again (CSS string expansion would be an insta-buy, Alex!), perhaps he can fix this by sampling those 'missing' notes.


----------



## I like music

Sovereign said:


> CSS string expansion would be an insta-buy, Alex!



My lord, this would be incredible.


----------



## mcalis

Stars must have aligned because I was just about to mention that whole-tone vs semi-tone sampling matters when it comes to open strings. It would also have helped in the way I currently use CSS, which is with two instances of each section, but with the transposition trick applied. Technically this means that on some notes a sample may be pitch-shifted up to 4 semitones which does get somewhat noticeable (though not necessarily unpleasant). 

It also gives us, as end-users more samples to play with so that if we don't like a particular sample, we can grab a neighbouring one and stretch it up or down a semitone. Arguably, not many people are going to get this detailed however.

The EW hollywood series are one of the few libraries that I know of that are fully semi-tone sampled (and takes into account open strings & finger positions)


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Is there a deep dive article / video about the benefits and disadvantages of sampling Chromatically vs Whole Tone / Major Scale ? 

Would love to read more in to it, find out who is doing what , and why etc


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Yeah because that's what I love doing after spending hundreds if not thousands on samples.. to mangle them so they sound like they are suppose to.
> 
> Also no idea what you're talking about regarding sustain patches - it's an issue across every articulation.


Yea, crazy world where you have to put some effort into things 
Unless the dev says so it's not supposed to do clusters with sus patches, because whole tone sampling is the norm. It's a global limitation across most libraries. So it either requires awareness on the buyers end or 90-95% of devs must out some warning about it on their page. Well, I prefer the first one.

The doubled workload doesn't seem worth it considering the very occasional and quite fixable issues, especially since it can easily compromise other aspects about the library - less finesse due to having to work with twice the samples unless you take twice the time, in which case many libraries we have now would not exist, musician frustration and less expressive samples, etc etc... better to fuzz with it a bit! :D

Sustains includes articulations like trem, harmonics etc. Just means that it's no legato patch.
It's not a thing with legato ofc (except polyphonic) and with shorts I generally don't encounter it due to the RR's. But yea, it's possible if you hit exactly the same RR order. 

Would actually be great to have a script take a low or higher note when playing 2 notes in the same zone to avoid the phasing. Of course that means even more unnatural samples though haha


----------



## Nils Neumann

ThomasNL said:


> Thanks to you i will now be let down if this isn't in the library.
> 
> All jokes aside, the whole tone discussion shows why we should be glad there are so many library companies. If you really want semi-tone libraries, go to orchestral tools. If you want light weight stuff, check out the Infinite series. Etc, etc etc. I do think they should be transparent about the method they used so we can ajust accordingly.


OT samples also in wholetone steps, sometimes even thirds.


----------



## jamwerks

There are lots of good cluster libraries for those moments!


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

DarkestShadow said:


> Yea, crazy world where you have to put some effort into things
> Unless the dev says so it's not supposed to do clusters with sus patches, because whole tone sampling is the norm. It's a global limitation across most libraries. So it either requires awareness on the buyers end or 90-95% of devs must out some warning about it on their page. Well, I prefer the first one.
> 
> The doubled workload doesn't seem worth it considering the very occasional and quite fixable issues, especially since it can easily compromise other aspects about the library - less finesse due to having to work with twice the samples unless you take twice the time, in which case many libraries we have now would not exist, musician frustration and less expressive samples, etc etc... better to fuzz with it a bit! :D
> 
> Sustains includes articulations like trem, harmonics etc. Just means that it's no legato patch.
> It's not a thing with legato ofc (except polyphonic) and with shorts I generally don't encounter it due to the RR'
> 
> Would actually be great to have a script take a low or higher note when playing 2 notes in the same zone to avoid the phasing. Of course that means even more unnatural samples though haha


I dont think it's fair to call me lazy because i dont want to dick around in kontakt to fix something that shouldn't happen in the first place

There's a reason Hollywood strings is still one of the best string libaries out there and semitone sampling is part of that reason.

I do like your idea though of a smart detection of clashing samples.

To be honest I'm surprised composers are playing it down as though its nothing. It sounds horrible and personally for me a constant issue.

Also a minor 2nd is not a cluster


----------



## Knomes

thesteelydane said:


> Sampling chromatically not only doubles recording time



I am not sure it just doubles the recording time because of legato patches. To take an easy example, let us suppose of doing a 1-layer instrument with only a legato patch and just 12 notes. With whole-tone sampling, you must record 6x5=30 legato transitions, while with half-tone sampling you should record 12x11= 132 legato transitions, which is more than four times the samples of the other case.

Am I considering something wrong?


----------



## Casiquire

Knomes said:


> I am not sure it just doubles the recording time because of legato patches. To take an easy example, let us suppose of doing a 1-layer instrument with only a legato patch and just 12 notes. With whole-tone sampling, you must record 6x5=30 legato transitions, while with half-tone sampling you should record 12x11= 132 legato transitions, which is more than four times the samples of the other case.
> 
> Am I considering something wrong?


No, you need to record 6x23 legato transitions. You're skipping every other note, but you still need to record a full octave of transitions up and a full octave down. Your starting sample for C and C# may be the same, but you still need every single transition


----------



## Knomes

Casiquire said:


> No, you need to record 6x23 legato transitions. You're skipping every other note, but you still need to record a full octave of transitions up and a full octave down. Your starting sample for C and C# may be the same, but you still need every single transition



In my example, the instrument has just 12 notes, less than an octave. So, you cannot record one octave up and one octave down. I made a toy-example instrument just to have easier math. Probably it just made the thing harder than necessary ahah.

Anyway, it's more or less the double because you have to record the same intervals twice with half-tone sampling. Ok, got it!


----------



## Casiquire

Knomes said:


> In my example, the instrument has just 12 notes, less than an octave. So, you cannot record one octave up and one octave down. I made a toy-example instrument just to have easier math. Probably it just made the thing harder than necessary ahah.
> 
> Anyway, it's more or less the double because you have to record the same intervals twice with half-tone sampling. Ok, got it!


Oh lmao true, I see what you mean now. But yes you'd still need to record transitions for each interval, even if it lands on a note that was "skipped". For example if you record C and skip C#, you still need to record the minor second transition of C to C#. So it's closer to double as opposed to more than quadruple the samples.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I dont think it's fair to call me lazy because i dont want to dick around in kontakt to fix something that shouldn't happen in the first place
> 
> There's a reason Hollywood strings is still one of the best string libaries out there and semitone sampling is part of that reason.
> 
> I do like your idea though of a smart detection of clashing samples.
> 
> To be honest I'm surprised composers are playing it down as though its nothing. It sounds horrible and personally for me a constant issue.
> 
> Also a minor 2nd is not a cluster


Then it's some dissonant thing that would generally be written for 2 parts/different patches.

The reason it's not really widely considered a large issue is probably just that it isn't.. for most. 
I have no idea how this can be a constant issue since I personally have never been bothered by it in 6 years, despite very much hearing it when provoking it consciously. 
It could also work to slightly offset the clashing notes against each other to break up the phasing.

Actually I had no idea that HS is chromatically sampled, I love it but this has nothing to do with it. Meanwhile I moved to other libraries that I know are whole-tone sampled and barely use it anymore.
Now I'm not surprised anymore Thomas Bergersen said HS costed over a million dollar to make. 
I personally hope that no other developer gets that idea for such a large project because no matter the advantages, the drawbacks will certainly be much greater.


----------



## Toecutter

By now all libraries should be sampled chromatically. Sure if you write EPIC deafening wall of sound you will barely notice or care. I can hear the difference and it bugs the crap out of me.

RAM and disk space are the laziest excuses to not do it. Hello it's 2021, we have the hardware  Session time? Plan ahead, plan smart. Musicians getting tired or bored??? Plenty of pros out there looking for work. Editing? Other than Alex Wallbank all devs are sloppy anyway, that's not the issue. Price? It's a competitive market, price it right and profit.


----------



## muziksculp

So.. Is tomorrow the BIG Day ? Dec. 10th ?


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Toecutter said:


> By now all libraries should be sampled chromatically. Sure if you write EPIC deafening wall of sound you will barely notice or care. I can hear the difference and it bugs the crap out of me.
> 
> RAM and disk space are the laziest excuses to not do it. Hello it's 2021, we have the hardware  Session time? Plan ahead, plan smart. Musicians getting tired or bored??? Plenty of pros out there looking for work. Editing? Other than Alex Wallbank all devs are sloppy anyway, that's not the issue. Price? It's a competitive market, price it right and profit.


Easy to just sit on your arse and throw demands in the world. Your points are just thoughtless witty remarks. Nothing practical, specific or executable. 
(Even the hardware one - there are still plenty of people who don't "have the hardware", I was one of them for 6 years till a few days ago)

So, libraries will keep bugging the crap out of your for a while till you can actually sport some practical points.


----------



## thesteelydane

Knomes said:


> I am not sure it just doubles the recording time because of legato patches. To take an easy example, let us suppose of doing a 1-layer instrument with only a legato patch and just 12 notes. With whole-tone sampling, you must record 6x5=30 legato transitions, while with half-tone sampling you should record 12x11= 132 legato transitions, which is more than four times the samples of the other case.
> 
> Am I considering something wrong?



No, you’re right. I haven’t done legato sampling (yet!), so let’s just say it at minimum doubles the recording time, potentially quadruples it or more. Player fatigue is also a real thing, so you would have to split it into several days.
And on top of that keep in mind that recording time is but a fraction of editing time when producing a sample library. My little Bunker Strings library with no legato, whole tone sampling and only 5 articulations was at least 700 work hours - I didn’t keep track, because it was my first library and I didn’t know if it would be my last, but at least that! Had I sampled it chromatically I would probably have been insane long before finishing it.


----------



## Beans

Toecutter said:


> RAM and disk space are the laziest excuses to not do it. Hello it's 2021, we have the hardware



I dunno, I bought VEPro and am setting up a second PC because my template is stretching my resources enough as is.


----------



## Bluemount Score

This thread went from _hilarious_ to _boring_ to _heated up_ pretty quick!


----------



## NoamL

mcalis said:


> Stars must have aligned because I was just about to mention that whole-tone vs semi-tone sampling matters when it comes to open strings. It would also have helped in the way I currently use CSS, which is with two instances of each section, but with the transposition trick applied. Technically this means that on some notes a sample may be pitch-shifted up to 4 semitones which does get somewhat noticeable (though not necessarily unpleasant).
> 
> It also gives us, as end-users more samples to play with so that if we don't like a particular sample, we can grab a neighbouring one and stretch it up or down a semitone. Arguably, not many people are going to get this detailed however.
> 
> The EW hollywood series are one of the few libraries that I know of that are fully semi-tone sampled (and takes into account open strings & finger positions)



Hi @mcalis I'm curious to hear why you use the transposition trick with divisi strings? As long as they are playing different notes then there isn't really a problem because you are using different samples?

I use CSS with divisi often, I just copy out a new instance of the instrument and make sure both instruments have their CC11 lowered for the divisi notes equivalent to a 3dB drop.


----------



## thesteelydane

Toecutter said:


> RAM and disk space are the laziest excuses to not do it. Hello it's 2021, we have the hardware  Session time? Plan ahead, plan smart. Musicians getting tired or bored??? Plenty of pros out there looking for work. Editing? Other than Alex Wallbank all devs are sloppy anyway, that's not the issue. Price? It's a competitive market, price it right and profit.



Believe me, if there was a competitive advantage to chromatic sampling, we’d all be doing it. Apart from that a blanket statement like all devs, except for one, being sloppy, is simply not true. Editing is by far the most time consuming part of the process, so dismissing it like that misses the point entirely. 

And as a former orchestral pro, with a near career ending playing induced injury, I can assure you there’s more to it than musicians “getting tired”. Sampling is excruciatingly painful, which you wouldn’t know if you haven’t done it. And no, I don’t think the right price will make it a viable business, because the difference in quality is negligible, and the market is saturated.

I’d love for you to prove me wrong though - we all want sampling to progress, but I also have to make it a viable business.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Bluemount Score said:


> This thread went from _hilarious_ to _boring_ to _heated up_ pretty quick!


It was never boring!  Would be nice if we could get back to the subject of CSW though.


----------



## ka00

Maybe in the cases where you want chromatic sampling on a solo instrument, you'd be better served by the developer having provided a second one of those instruments instead? Like flute 1 and flute 2. And when it's a section, maybe you'd be better served by the developer making divisi sections instead of sampling chromatically? Probably just as much work, but perhaps more flexible.


----------



## Nils Neumann

thesteelydane said:


> Sampling is excruciatingly painful, which you wouldn’t know if you haven’t done it.



I once sampled an organ. I thought it would be an easy job, I mean you just had to sit there and press a key. But ohh boy I underestimated this. Pressing a key for 4 hours and hearing out for any possible problems was extremely taxing on me. 

Can't imagine how this is for delicate instruments like the violin where you actually need an excellent technique.


----------



## ethormusic

I think what's more important than whole tone sampling vs chromatic sampling, is the scripting and consistency of the final result with sampled instruments. Alex Wallbank has done a terrific job on Cinematic Studio Series, especially with how clean and consistent the instruments and interface are. THAT is the reason why at least I am on here excited about the release of CSW.


----------



## Rob Elliott

ethormusic said:


> I think what's more important than whole tone sampling vs chromatic sampling, is the scripting and consistency of the final result with sampled instruments. Alex Wallbank has done a terrific job on Cinematic Studio Series, especially with how clean and consistent the instruments and interface are. THAT is the reason why at least I am on here excited about the release of CSW.


Ok - this is a nice final statement on sampling - NOW BACK TO THE MEMES......


----------



## Robert_G

hbjdk said:


> It was never boring!  Would be nice if we could get back to the subject of CSW though.



I can fix that. Did anyone email Alex today?


----------



## Bluemount Score

hbjdk said:


> It was never boring!  Would be nice if we could get back to the subject of CSW though.


I must admit I found the whole tone sampling discussion quite interesting to some part, something I haven't thought about a lot myself before. But right! So I guess it's gonna be released soon? I see the CSW banner on the right side as I'm writing this.


----------



## Eptesicus

Rob Elliott said:


> Ok - this is a nice final statement on sampling - NOW BACK TO THE MEMES......



Ok


----------



## thesteelydane

Nils Neumann said:


> I once sampled an organ. I thought it would be an easy job, I mean you just had to sit there and press a key. But ohh boy I underestimated this. Pressing a key for 4 hours and hearing out for any possible problems was extremely taxing on me.
> 
> Can't imagine how this is for delicate instruments like the violin where you actually need an excellent technique.



Exactly. And it's even harder for non-symmetrical instrument, especially violin and viola, being held on the shoulder. Sitting still, like frozen after a short note to not get any rustling noise in the tail of the note, very quickly becomes painful. Times this by number of round robbins, and double that if sampling chromatically, and it becomes a real issue of work safety.


----------



## Toecutter

DarkestShadow said:


> Easy to just sit on your arse and throw demands in the world. Your points are just thoughtless witty remarks. Nothing practical, specific or executable.


We got a feisty one here! You are too busy trying to shove your points down the throat of others to make any sense of what I said.


----------



## Toecutter

thesteelydane said:


> Apart from that a blanket statement like all devs, except for one, being sloppy, is simply not true.


Sorry if I hit a nerve, it wasn't my intention but that's my experience and I have samples from most if not all developers, including yours, and other than Alex, all are sloppy to some extent. User experience, I hope you don't take it personally


----------



## Geocranium

Toecutter said:


> Price? It's a competitive market, price it right and profit.



Except the market has basically already determined that whole tone sampling has won. If this theoretical semi-tone library is competing with all the other whole-tone sampled ones, they're going to easily be able to undercut its price. You're right that it's a competitive market, but whole-tone sampling is clearly the superior method in this market because it's cheaper and basically no one cares about or notices the difference.


----------



## thesteelydane

Toecutter said:


> Sorry if I hit a nerve, it wasn't my intention but that's my experience and I have samples from most if not all developers, including yours, and other than Alex, all are sloppy to some extent. User experience, I hope you don't take it personally


Sorry but I do, because I take great pride in my quality control, and everything is checked again and again and again. If you have found sloppy editing, please tell me where and I will fix it.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Rob Elliott said:


> Ok - this is a nice final statement on sampling - NOW BACK TO THE MEMES......


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Toecutter said:


> We got a feisty one here! You are too busy trying to shove your points down the throat of others to make any sense of what I said.


For that it has to make sense first!

I also like how removed the lower part of my post to make it look like all I did was being feisty. :D

There is nothing practical or executable in your points, while I mentioned about 4 reasons practical why it isn't a good idea.

Your refutation about musicians bored by twice the already long sampling session times was that there are plenty of pro's looking for work. What is that? That's not a point. Of course developers will work with pro's but they are not robots. Even the most professional musicians can get frustrated from playing single notes for many hours, even with whole tone sampling. Twice the session will certainly have an impact on the performance regardless of how professional the musicians are. They have not practiced, studied to play single notes but to play music! Thus being a pro has actually has zero to do with sampling.

With pricing you would have to recoup twice the cost.. or at least pretty close. There is no substance to your proposition of "price it right, make profit". What would be the right price for a semi-tone sample library in the sea of whole tone libraries? A normal price despite having spent twice the money? There is no way they will make back their money to the same extent as with a whole tone library. If they price it way higher they'll make fewer sales and thus don't profit as much. If they price it similarly they'd have to make about 50% more sales, just for the semi-tone thing. Which just won't happen considering how few people care about it. And thus they won't profit as much. 
So, they will most likely make less money overall one way or another. 
And therefore they will have less budged for future productions. Which is especially dramatic considering they'd have to sample every note for you again..
So they'd have to make short cuts in other areas, areas which most people will consider more important than whole tone sampling. Fewer articulations, dynamics, instruments... so they'll make even less money. And there it all goes down. While the devs doing whole tone sampling will laugh and dance.
You don't think about any of that and just go "price it right, and profit". ????

Sloppy devs? Well, if your standards are so high that every developer except Alex is sloppy then they will be even sloppier with twice the samples to handle and thus you'll probably get a heart attack from frustration before appreciating how half of the minor 2nd doubles you hold don't phase.
So you should really hope that they won't give themselves twice the work and thus be even sloppier overall.

It's maybe a bit out there, but I think it's possible that we'd still be in 2015 in terms or released libraries if all libs would be chromatically sampled because it can easily take twice as long.


----------



## Toecutter

DarkestShadow said:


> Your refutation about musicians bored by twice the already long sampling session times was that there are plenty of pro's looking for work. What is that? That's not a point.




Mmmmm you said it yourself. Read



DarkestShadow said:


> The doubled workload doesn't seem worth it considering the very occasional and quite fixable issues, especially since it can easily compromise other aspects about the library - less finesse due to having to work with twice the samples unless you take twice the time, in which case many libraries we have now would not exist, *musician frustration *and less expressive samples, etc etc... better to fuzz with it a bit! :D






DarkestShadow said:


> There is nothing practical or executable in your points, while I mentioned about 4 reasons practical why it isn't a good idea.



XD Hilarious coming from a guy who a few pages ago said



DarkestShadow said:


> Yea, crazy world where you have to put some effort into things



Feisty! XD You contradict yourself too much. 



DarkestShadow said:


> Sustains includes articulations like trem, harmonics etc. Just means that it's no legato patch.
> It's not a thing with legato ofc (except polyphonic)



Keep poking other members all you want but at least try to make some sense... because I don't think you know what you are talking about. Not a thing with legato? I suggest you to look at Afflatus, Swing More! and Chamber Strings to name a few


----------



## pawelmorytko

In other news, I'm super excited to see more about the new rumoured runs mode for CSW which will probably be the basis of the CSS update where it will have a new runs mode


----------



## cqd

pawelmorytko said:


> In other news, I'm super excited to see more about the new rumoured runs mode for CSW which will probably be the basis of the CSS update where it will have a new runs mode



I'm kind of psyched about this too.. they're surely all getting an update I would think..


----------



## Marsen

hbjdk said:


>


You wanna eat the woodwinds?


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Toecutter said:


> Mmmmm you said it yourself. Read
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XD Hilarious coming from a guy who a few pages ago said
> 
> 
> 
> Feisty! XD You contradict yourself too much.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep poking other members all you want but at least try to make some sense... because I don't think you know what you are talking about. Not a thing with legato? I suggest you to look at Afflatus, Swing More! and Chamber Strings to name a few


(quoting destroys quotes, so won't look very cool lol)

I have no idea what you are addressing there. Yea, in both quotes I said that musicians will be frustrated from twice the session time (= less expressive samples)
How does this substantiate your "pro's looking for work" thing or refute my points?

I don't know what you mean by this contradiction. And it looks like you don't disagree with me saying that there is nothing practical and executable in your points. Maybe you are troubled by me just saying "you have to put work into things" without making suggestions? That would be wrong, because I made several suggestions (perhaps only in follow up posts, but still). Transpose trick, offsetting conflicting (midi) notes against each other, or good ol part writing (with different patches of course). 
I'll add that one could also use a higher or lower dynamic layer for the conflicting notes, if it's on different tracks and if it works musically. Which would then be unique samples ofc and get rid of the phasing. 

Kinda funny how you at the end dig out some part from a previous comment. Always cool to select a few things that you can actually find arguments against and ignore everything else :D
The phasing of minor 2nds clashing obviously doesn't happen with normal legato.
I don't have these libraries. Afflatus has polyphonic legato, in which case it can happen of course, but I mentioned that in my comment. Otherwise I have no idea what you mean since legato are single notes. Unless you use the exact same patch on another track to write these minor 2nd doubles.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

pawelmorytko said:


> In other news, I'm super excited to see more about the new rumoured runs mode for CSW which will probably be the basis of the CSS update where it will have a new runs mode


That would be so good


----------



## ethormusic

pawelmorytko said:


> In other news, I'm super excited to see more about the new rumoured runs mode for CSW which will probably be the basis of the CSS update where it will have a new runs mode


I'd love for a runs mode in both CSW and CSS!


----------



## filipjonathan

pawelmorytko said:


> In other news, I'm super excited to see more about the new rumoured runs mode for CSW which will probably be the basis of the CSS update where it will have a new runs mode


I'm really excited for that CSS update!!!


----------



## pawelmorytko

The CS2 is already really nice, blending trills into the Marcato notes (I think?), which gives a nice runs articulation, and you can send more or less of the trills depending on how messy you want it to sound. Hoping CSS has something similar! Wonder what CSW runs could sound like though....


----------



## Gingerbread

Hurry and release it, Alex! The natives are clearly getting restless and agitated.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

pawelmorytko said:


> The CS2 is already really nice, blending trills into the Marcato notes (I think?), which gives a nice runs articulation, and you can send more or less of the trills depending on how messy you want it to sound. Hoping CSS has something similar! Wonder what CSW runs could sound like though....


It's surprising that the older library has this feature but CSS doesn't. Hope it does get implemented at some point.


----------



## muziksculp

Was there a recent announcement regarding new Runs-Mode for CSS via an update ? or is this pure speculation ?


----------



## GingerMaestro

muziksculp said:


> Was there a recent announcement regarding new Runs-Mode for CSS via an update ? or is this pure speculation ?


I had an email with John from support asking about runs mode in CS2 and he said that Alex was working on a runs mode for CSS, although wouldn’t be able to complete it until after CSW is released (obviously!) pretty busy time for them right now...will be a great addition to the library though


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Ah well. Might as well post one more meme before this thread goes even more bonkers after release day.


----------



## MaxOctane

In semi-tone argument, someone made the point that semi-tone sample increases disk space.

My dream is to someday see a ridiculously, unbelievably huge sample lib, like a string quartet library clocking in at 4TB compressed. Dozens of vibrato start times and vibrato strengths, legatos out the wazoo, 20 different staccatos, 20 different spiccatos, deep-deep-deep sampling of all articulations. Like, let's quit screwing around with 100GB libs that all fall short, and just record all the waveforms that an instrument can produce!


----------



## Beans

MaxOctane said:


> In semi-tone argument, someone made the point that semi-tone sample increases disk space.
> 
> My dream is to someday see a ridiculously, unbelievably huge sample lib, like a string quartet library clocking in at 4TB compressed. Dozens of vibrato start times and vibrato strengths, legatos out the wazoo, 20 different staccatos, 20 different spiccatos, deep-deep-deep sampling of all articulations. Like, let's quit screwing around with 100GB libs that all fall short, and just record all the waveforms that an instrument can produce!



But my CPU. And my RAM. They're not gonna like this. 

Perhaps in the year 2030.


----------



## jneebz

Wait, what thread is this?


----------



## MaxOctane

Beans said:


> But my CPU. And my RAM. They're not gonna like this.
> 
> Perhaps in the year 2030.



It's totally doable today. All you need ("_all you need_") is a playback engine that supports a low-res mode while you're working, and high-res playback when bouncing.


----------



## Tremendouz

I love the runs mode in CS2 so if that gets added to CSS which is already my favourite... oh boy

EDIT: where did all these comments before mine come from haha. I can't keep up with the thread anymore


----------



## Dima Lanski

MaxOctane said:


> It's totally doable today. All you need ("_all you need_") is a playback engine that supports a low-res mode while you're working, and high-res playback when bouncing.


You don't even have to have the bouncing happen locally. Look at Roland's Tera Piano as an example.


----------



## MaxOctane

Dima Lanski said:


> You don't even have to have the bouncing happen locally. Look at Roland's Tera Piano as an example.



I'm surprised we haven't seen a cloud-based sample engine. Like, you download a 10GB library for working inside the DAW, but then the engine renders high-res audio and legatos etc in the cloud. Again, totally doable today.


----------



## Tremendouz

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I mean... are we just ignoring Hollywood strings?


How much did Hollywood Strings cost at launch anyway? I'm too young to remember such things.


----------



## JEPA

why is this thread SOOO LONG before the product EVER was released??


----------



## Kony

Because I started it 2 years ago


----------



## dbudimir

JEPA said:


> why is this thread SOOO LONG before the product EVER was released??



Excitement.....Talk about strings relating to woodwinds....Argue about samples... Lull in the moment....Then repeat until 100 pages.......Release product!


----------



## prodigalson

While you're all waiting for CSW, try out how the BBCSO Woodwinds fit with the Cinematic Studio Series. I think they work really well. 

Here's one of my favorite JNH cues, "Beauty Killed the Beast" from King Kong. Incredible he only had a few weeks to write more than 200 mins of music and this is the final cue. 

CSS, CSB, BBCSO (Winds, Harp and Percussion.)


----------



## Bluemount Score

prodigalson said:


> While you're all waiting for CSW, try out how the BBCSO Woodwinds fit with the Cinematic Studio Series. I think they work really well.
> 
> Here's one of my favorite JNH cues, "Beauty Killed the Beast" from King Kong. Incredible he only had a few weeks to write more than 200 mins of music and this is the final cue.
> 
> CSS, CSB, BBCSO (Winds, Harp and Percussion.)



Yes, I've combined these two before as well! The extra mics in BBCSO Pro offer even more flexibility. Worked nicely for me

EDIT: Wow, really good job on the track!


----------



## prodigalson

Bluemount Score said:


> Yes, I've combined these two before as well! The extra mics in BBCSO Pro offer even more flexibility. Worked nicely for me
> 
> EDIT: Wow, really good job on the track!



Thanks


----------



## Rob Elliott

prodigalson said:


> While you're all waiting for CSW, try out how the BBCSO Woodwinds fit with the Cinematic Studio Series. I think they work really well.
> 
> Here's one of my favorite JNH cues, "Beauty Killed the Beast" from King Kong. Incredible he only had a few weeks to write more than 200 mins of music and this is the final cue.
> 
> CSS, CSB, BBCSO (Winds, Harp and Percussion.)



Big JNH fan but this also is another argument for trusting your FIRST instincts on projects. I have a long-standing client that to this day says one of his favorite scores of mine is where he gave me 1/10th of the time I needed. Subsequently, I usually LOVE projects that need to be done 'yesterday' - it is easier to get out of my own way.

I digress.

Please continue with the thread.


----------



## prodigalson

Rob Elliott said:


> Big JNH fan but this also is another argument for trusting your FIRST instincts on projects. I have a long-standing client that to this day says one of his favorite scores of mine is where he gave me 1/10th of the time I needed. Subsequently, I usually LOVE projects that need to be done 'yesterday' - it is easier to get out of my own way.
> 
> I digress.
> 
> Please continue with the thread.



Theres also something nice about having a director that doesn't have time to make you redo everything 10-20 times!

Although, I know JNH has said the King Kong experience was something he'd never want to have to do again!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

It's pretty interesting that Aaron Venture does chromatic sampling for his libraries, but the library size is quite small. Of course, he's doing super fancy real-time convolution and scripting stuff, which probably requires a lot less core sample content than for folks going the traditional route.


----------



## Casiquire

jneebz said:


> Wait, what thread is this?


It's a 72 paged thread about a library that has barely been announced, about which we have nearly no details, and no official demos. How on topic do you expect it to be!


----------



## CATDAD

Kony said:


> Because I started it 2 years ago


Honestly I feel by now @Kony should get a free copy for starting this incredible self-marketing hype thread!


----------



## muziksculp

It's Dec. 10th, almost Noon in Australia. Do we need to wait any longer ?


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

prodigalson said:


> While you're all waiting for CSW, try out how the BBCSO Woodwinds fit with the Cinematic Studio Series. I think they work really well.
> 
> Here's one of my favorite JNH cues, "Beauty Killed the Beast" from King Kong. Incredible he only had a few weeks to write more than 200 mins of music and this is the final cue.
> 
> CSS, CSB, BBCSO (Winds, Harp and Percussion.)




Man, JNH is SO underrated. I remember reading that too- he did the score for Kong in less than six WEEKS. And it's such a beautiful score. Great mockup btw!


----------



## ethormusic

prodigalson said:


> While you're all waiting for CSW, try out how the BBCSO Woodwinds fit with the Cinematic Studio Series. I think they work really well.
> 
> Here's one of my favorite JNH cues, "Beauty Killed the Beast" from King Kong. Incredible he only had a few weeks to write more than 200 mins of music and this is the final cue.
> 
> CSS, CSB, BBCSO (Winds, Harp and Percussion.)



BBCSO is a HUGE disappointment to me. I got the Pro edition last year, and the concept is great, execution is average. The woodwinds don't all have performance legato when imo they all should. Only the Flute, Piccolo, and Oboe do.


Nice mockup btw!


----------



## Casiquire

ethormusic said:


> BBCSO is a HUGE disappointment to me. I got the Pro edition last year, and the concept is great, execution is average. The woodwinds don't all have performance legato when imo they all should. Only the Flute, Piccolo, and Oboe do.


I genuinely don't understand what the library is even trying to be.


----------



## ethormusic

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It's pretty interesting that Aaron Venture does chromatic sampling for his libraries, but the library size is quite small. Of course, he's doing super fancy real-time convolution and scripting stuff, which probably requires a lot less core sample content than for folks going the traditional route.


The playability is really good... better than Spitfire's performance legato patches in any of their big libraries... but the sound while improved still sounds a bit... too sterile to my ears. I bought both IW and IB and on the off chance that CSW does NOT have any sort of runs mode, Infinite Woodwinds will easily cover that without breaking a sweat.


----------



## ethormusic

Casiquire said:


> I genuinely don't understand what the library is even trying to be.


It was supposed to be a library that captures the sound and essence of the place where the BBCSO recorded in for many years. I'm not British so I didn't grow up watching shows where the BBCSO recorded the score like Paul Thomson and Christian Henson did, but I was desparate for a library with decent woodwinds, and unfortunately wasted my money on BBCSO Pro. I still use the percussion and the woodwinds in my template.

Seems like Spitfire has abandoned BBCSO for their latest library recorded in Abbey Road. I'm not even thinking about buying it because I dislike only having section ensemble patches (ie. hi strings, low strings, hi woodwinds, lo woodwinds, etc.).


----------



## CT

Casiquire said:


> I genuinely don't understand what the library is even trying to be.



Then you're probably overthinking it.


----------



## youngpokie

Casiquire said:


> I genuinely don't understand what the library is even trying to be.



Well, it used to be a universal starting point. But after it was portioned into editions, it became clear that no, it's way bigger than that - it's actually The New Gold Standard.

It's so obvious, it says so on the damn website!!! Learn to read people... and don't overthink it


----------



## CT

youngpokie said:


> Well, it used to be a universal starting point. But after it was portioned into editions, it became clear that no, it's way bigger than that - it's actually The New Gold Standard.
> 
> It's so obvious, it says so on the damn website!!! Learn to read people... and don't overthink it



I'm not sure one needs a single consistent marketing narrative to be able to decide what the potential uses of a product are, but maybe I'm a huge lunatic!


----------



## Casiquire

Mike T said:


> Then you're probably overthinking it.


I don't think so, it has no legato in the viola or half the woodwinds? I think a bit of head scratching is fair


----------



## Toecutter

ethormusic said:


> The woodwinds don't all have performance legato when imo they all should.


The upcoming update will address that.

The brass needs a lot of work to be usable, dynamics are horrible. I don't know if SF will keep expanding the existing instruments now that Abbey Road is a thing, they need to go back to MVS when the pandemic allows and fix the horns at least.


----------



## CT

Casiquire said:


> I don't think so, it has no legato in the viola or half the woodwinds? I think a bit of head scratching is fair



I'm not exactly sure where you're getting this information, but it's no wonder you're scratching your head. I'd check the actual product page to see what really is there....


----------



## Casiquire

Mike T said:


> I'm not exactly sure where you're getting this information, but it's no wonder you're scratching your head. I'd check the actual product page to see what really is there....


From users here


----------



## CT

Casiquire said:


> From users here



I have an important hint: VI-Control is surprisingly unreliable at times for a forum about virtual instruments....


----------



## youngpokie

Mike T said:


> I'm not sure one needs a single consistent marketing narrative to be able to decide what the potential uses of a product are, but maybe I'm a huge lunatic!




of course not. But if you promise Gold Standard to people you better mean what you say


----------



## CT

youngpokie said:


> of course not. But if you promise Gold Standard to people you better mean what you say



So is the problem that nobody knows what the product is trying to be, or that it's the first time in history something advertised as Gold Standard is perhaps not exactly an indisputable embodiment of that?


----------



## Toecutter

Casiquire said:


> I don't think so, it has no legato in the viola or half the woodwinds? I think a bit of head scratching is fair


The only instruments that don't have legato are the contrabass tuba and bass flute. ethormusic was talking about the performance legato presets, the update will add the missing ones.


----------



## CT

Close but no cigar... the contrabass tuba has normal legato. Only the bass flute lacks it at this point.


----------



## Casiquire

Ah so it's continuously being updated with patches?


----------



## Toecutter

Mike T said:


> Close but no cigar... the contrabass tuba has normal legato. Only the bass flute lacks it at this point.


I must be tripping! The CIMBASSO and bass flute don't have legato.


----------



## CT

Casiquire said:


> Ah so it's continuously being updated with patches?



Yes, but sadly it has indeed simultaneously been abandoned in favor of the Abbey Road series by the easily distracted Spitfire team as some have lamented.


----------



## Toecutter

Casiquire said:


> Ah so it's continuously being updated with patches?


It's the second content update and Christian said more will come once covid give us a break.


----------



## ethormusic

Toecutter said:


> The upcoming update will address that.
> 
> The brass needs a lot of work to be usable, dynamics are horrible. I don't know if SF will keep expanding the existing instruments now that Abbey Road is a thing, they need to go back to MVS when the pandemic allows and fix the horns at least.


Oh man don't even get me started on the French Horn(s).


----------



## yiph2

Casiquire said:


> I don't think so, it has no legato in the viola or half the woodwinds? I think a bit of head scratching is fair


Um, there is though...


----------



## CT

yiph2 said:


> Um, there is though...



Nonsense, it's VI-Control, where the brass is unusable and the facts don't matter!


----------



## jneebz

Why do we drive on parkways and park in driveways?


----------



## CT

jneebz said:


> Why do we drive on parkways and park in driveways?



Because of whole-tone sampling.


----------



## jbuhler

Mike T said:


> Because of whole-tone sampling.


Where’s the rimshot emoji when you need it?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

ethormusic said:


> The playability is really good... better than Spitfire's performance legato patches in any of their big libraries... but the sound while improved still sounds a bit... too sterile to my ears. I bought both IW and IB and on the off chance that CSW does NOT have any sort of runs mode, Infinite Woodwinds will easily cover that without breaking a sweat.



Nothing wrong with Spitfire's performance legatos IMO. In fact, I think most developers lack an all-in-one patch that is significantly better for as broad a set of libraries / instruments. Aaron Venture certainly is doing some more complex scripting (which shows itself most in runs), but as an example, Symphonic Strings' performance legato does very similar stuff to IB / IW - varying note attacks based on velocity, portamento with low velocity legato, shorts based on note length, legato speed based on playing speed, etc.


----------



## RonOrchComp

jneebz said:


> Why do we drive on parkways and park in driveways?



Why is transporting something by car called a shipment, where transporting something by ship is called cargo?

Why are they called apartments if they are all stuck together?

Why is lemon juice made with artificial flavor and dishwashing liquid made with real lemons?


----------



## Toecutter

ethormusic said:


> Oh man don't even get me started on the French Horn(s).


Yeap horns are bad. But better keep it low otherwise Bernstein here will throw a koala at us!


----------



## ethormusic

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Nothing wrong with Spitfire's performance legatos IMO. In fact, I think most developers lack an all-in-one patch that is significantly better for as broad a set of libraries / instruments. Aaron Venture certainly is doing some more complex scripting (which shows itself most in runs), but as an example, Symphonic Strings' performance legato does very similar stuff to IB / IW - varying note attacks based on velocity, portamento with low velocity legato, shorts based on note length, legato speed based on playing speed, etc.


I never said there was anything wrong with Spitfire's performance legato... when they actually implement it... at least as an option for all of their instruments. My biggest criticism with Spitfire's BBCSO is that they DIDN'T include in all their woodwinds (yet). I can play beautiful passages with a flute in performance legato, but not a clarinet?


----------



## purple

Toecutter said:


> they need to go back to MVS when the pandemic allows and fix the horns at least.


Spitfire? Go back and fix something?


----------



## CT

jbuhler said:


> Where’s the rimshot emoji when you need it?



I am in desperate need of an eye-roll reaction!


----------



## mcalis

NoamL said:


> Hi @mcalis I'm curious to hear why you use the transposition trick with divisi strings? As long as they are playing different notes then there isn't really a problem because you are using different samples?
> 
> I use CSS with divisi often, I just copy out a new instance of the instrument and make sure both instruments have their CC11 lowered for the divisi notes equivalent to a 3dB drop.


Because when I want to have the Violins I play a unisono C for example, I have the C note on both Divisi A and B with different CC. In other words: they do play the same notes from time to time. Also, they way I have them set up I use the close Mic predominantly which makes the sections sound smaller, so they behave more like half sections anyway.


----------



## purple

mcalis said:


> Because when I want to have the Violins I play a unisono C for example, I have the C note on both Divisi A and B with different CC. In other words: they do play the same notes from time to time. Also, they way I have them set up I use the close Mic predominantly which makes the sections sound smaller, so they behave more like half sections anyway.


Just use violin II as your second violin I section. That's what I do.


----------



## mcalis

purple said:


> Just use violin II as your second violin I section. That's what I do.


That's not functionally equivalent.


----------



## jamwerks

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It's pretty interesting that Aaron Venture does chromatic sampling for his libraries, but the library size is quite small. Of course, he's doing super fancy real-time convolution and scripting stuff, which probably requires a lot less core sample content than for folks going the traditional route.


Yeah, very very little core content I believe. But definitely very musical and worth having.


----------



## pawelmorytko

I clicked on this thread because it was in my notifications and honestly after catching up on the last 2 pages I still don't know what thread I'm on...


----------



## Bluemount Score

pawelmorytko said:


> I clicked on this thread because it was in my notifications and honestly after catching up on the last 2 pages I still don't know what thread I'm on...


The boring whole-tone-sampling BBCSO hybrid thread! From time to time, you may also find guesses about the release of CSW (which always turn out to be wrong).


----------



## cqd

Yeah, who cares.. whatever way Alex does it works..
Let's get back to arguing about there being a2 vs another solo, what colour the percussion should be, and why it wasn't released today. 
Based on the approaching conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter I'm still saying the 21st..


----------



## ethormusic

cqd said:


> Yeah, who cares.. whatever way Alex does it works..
> Let's get back to arguing about there being a2 vs another solo, what colour the percussion should be, and why it wasn't released today.
> Based on the approaching conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter I'm still saying the 21st..


What color should the percussion be?


----------



## Tremendouz

ethormusic said:


> What color should the percussion be?


Purple. There's simply no other way.


----------



## Noc

Tremendouz said:


> Purple. There's simply no other way.


<meme of Mandalorian in purple armor, head replaced by “Cinematic Studio Percussion”, and text reading “This is the way”, which I am far too lazy to actually make>


----------



## Bluemount Score

Tremendouz said:


> Purple. There's simply no other way.


CSS is purple already! I guess it's gonna be yellow.


----------



## RMH

prodigalson said:


> While you're all waiting for CSW, try out how the BBCSO Woodwinds fit with the Cinematic Studio Series. I think they work really well.
> 
> Here's one of my favorite JNH cues, "Beauty Killed the Beast" from King Kong. Incredible he only had a few weeks to write more than 200 mins of music and this is the final cue.
> 
> CSS, CSB, BBCSO (Winds, Harp and Percussion.)



Wonderful! It's your mockup?
I have too CS series and BBSCO!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Tremendouz said:


> Purple. There's simply no other way.


I like how this post about color was liked by the user @galactic orange !


----------



## Grizzlymv

ethormusic said:


> What color should the percussion be?


Yellow?


Bluemount Score said:


> CSS is purple already! I guess it's gonna be yellow.


I vote for this as well...but I'm a little biased, only because the percs in my template are already in yellow!


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Marsen said:


> You wanna eat the woodwinds?


Well, I always liked flutes


----------



## galactic orange

hbjdk said:


> I like how this post about color was liked by the user @galactic orange !


I was going to say “orange, obviously” but thought it a bit too cheeky.


----------



## prodigalson

RMH said:


> Wonderful! It's your mockup?
> I have both library!



thanks, yes it’s mine.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Bluemount Score said:


> CSS is purple already! I guess it's gonna be yellow.





Tremendouz said:


> Purple. There's simply no other way.


There are many shades of purple and there are also many paths. What are we arguing about? Are we running out of colors? We don't know what color will be the percussion, but this guy is clearly emotional color to the face.


----------



## ricoderks

Release day


----------



## ethormusic

Glad we're finally back to the memes again!


----------



## Fry777

Come on Alex !


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Fry777 said:


> Come on Alex !


No, Chuck says it's a clarinet!


----------



## cqd

It just occurred to me that he might just drop it..No announcement that it's out in 2 weeks time.. Everyone here would be delighted..It would simultaneously be two weeks early and a year late..

Could be a bit of a master stroke..


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

cqd said:


> It would simultaneously be two weeks early and a year late..


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

It was crazy the other day - we’d been posting page after page with jokes and memes, and then all of a sudden, bam, a post from Alex, with audio demos even!


----------



## Rob Elliott

cqd said:


> It just occurred to me that he might just drop it..No announcement that it's out in 2 weeks time.. Everyone here would be delighted..It would simultaneously be two weeks early and a year late..
> 
> Could be a bit of a master stroke..


...nice try with the Jedi Mind Trick. Alex does not strike me as 'weak-minded'.


----------



## Fry777

hbjdk said:


> It was crazy the other day - we’d been posting page after page with jokes and memes, and then all of a sudden, bam, a post from Alex, with audio demos even!



And why do you think we're summoning our best memes now ?


----------



## purple

mcalis said:


> That's not functionally equivalent.


Maybe I don't understand the premise here then.
So you duplicate the Violin I patch to have 2 separate voices in your writing and presumably the same for the violin II patch. Why not organize it like this:

Violin I upper divisi (Violins 1 patch)
Violin I lower divisi (Violins 2 patch)
Violin II upper divisi (Violins 1 patch)
Violin II lower divisi (Violins 2 patch)

This way you eliminate the phasing on unisons but maintain the same size of section in terms of the sound when you go to and from unison. This is how I do it by default most of the time as it gives a fuller sound overall.


----------



## Casiquire

So the clarinets *don't* have legato? And you all wonder why people are confused!


----------



## ethormusic

Casiquire said:


> So the clarinets *don't* have legato? And you all wonder why people are confused!


The clarinets DO have legato if you're talking about BBCSO, but they do NOT have _performance_ legato.

All the instruments that do have _performance legato_ don't have normal legato. I would prefer if there was an option for choosing between one or the other for every instrument in BBCSO, but it matters not, because CSW will be my main woodwinds library even if Spitfire updates BBCSO.


----------



## CT

ethormusic said:


> The clarinets DO have legato if you're talking about BBCSO, but they do NOT have _performance_ legato.
> 
> All the instruments that do have _performance legato_ don't have normal legato. I would prefer if there was an option for choosing between one or the other for every instrument in BBCSO, but it matters not, because CSW will be my main woodwinds library even if Spitfire updates BBCSO.



I see, so what you're saying is that the clarinet is the only instrument in BBCSO with legato? I get it now.


----------



## peladio

Alex W said:


> As you know, we don't tend to hype much, and instead just release the product when it's ready.



No abrasive marketing, hype, just superior product..you are as classy as your products and deserve all the success..

Can't wait for CSW..

Also could you people not spam this thread with BBC again and keep it about CSW?


----------



## CT

peladio said:


> Also could you people not spam this thread with BBC again and keep it about CSW?



Just for you, no.


----------



## peladio

José Herring said:


> I think the studio is the absolute perfect sound for woodwinds.



Agreed..and percusssion as well..Cineperc and Hollywood Percusssion are the best orchestral percusssion libraries to my ears and I can't wait to hear the magic Alex will bring with percusssion

Percusssion samples recorded in big halls always end up sounding washy and anemic..


----------



## Robert_G

Even mentioning Spitfire Audio in a Cinematic Studios thread is as wrong as it gets. Its like trying to convince Corvette owners that a Ford Focus is cool too.


----------



## clisma

Robert_G said:


> Even mentioning Spitfire Audio in a Cinematic Studios thread is as wrong as it gets. Its like trying to convince Corvette owners that a Ford Focus is cool too.


Perhaps, but I'll take a Ford Focus ST over the Corvette, thank you. Hot Hatch = super fun drive that can go around bends. Though I get your metaphor, and yes, CSW all the way. Spitwho?


----------



## pawelmorytko

peladio said:


> Agreed..and percusssion as well..Cineperc and Hollywood Percusssion are the best orchestral percusssion libraries to my ears and I can't wait to hear the magic Alex will bring with percusssion
> 
> Percusssion samples recorded in big halls always end up sounding washy and anemic..


I dunno AR One per sounds great to me! But I can see why some think Spitfire Percussion is too wet.


----------



## CT

Robert_G said:


> Even mentioning Spitfire Audio in a Cinematic Studios thread is as wrong as it gets. Its like trying to convince Corvette owners that a Ford Focus is cool too.



Wow, I'd never thought about it this way before. I have a lot of soul-searching to do. In the meantime, would you like to talk about Spitfire Audio?


----------



## peladio

pawelmorytko said:


> I dunno AR One per sounds great to me! But I can see why some think Spitfire Percussion is too wet.



Abbey Road sounds good indeed..but it's a drier sound compared to that usual hall sound that works best for strings imo..

Same reason why I much prefer Damage to Strikeforce for example..quite a washy sound

I'm sure that CSP will be superior to any orchestral perc library currently available


----------



## VivianaSings

Robert_G said:


> Even mentioning Spitfire Audio in a Cinematic Studios thread is as wrong as it gets. Its like trying to convince Corvette owners that a Ford Focus is cool too.



So in the spirit of this forum and its obsession with acronyms, is Spitfire now "SFFF"?


----------



## purple

I think we should start fresh with a new thread when it releases.


----------



## Tremendouz

peladio said:


> sure that CSP will be superior to any orchestral perc library currently available


Now this made me wonder. We already have CSP (piano) so what's the percussion gonna be called? CSPrc? 😄


----------



## Noc

Tremendouz said:


> Now this made me wonder. We already have CSP (piano) so what's the percussion gonna be called? CSPrc? 😄


Maybe “Cinematic Studio Orchestral Percussion”, or CSOP? Similar to how EW named their Hollywood Orch. Percussion (I always wondered why they slapped on “Orchestral” to their Hollywood woodwinds and perc. libraries’ names, but not for the brass, strings and others …).


----------



## Robert_G

Well......it's well into business hours for a Friday in Australia, so I'm thinking this week isn't happening.


----------



## lettucehat

Noc said:


> (I always wondered why they slapped on “Orchestral” to their Hollywood woodwinds and perc. libraries’ names, but not for the brass, strings and others …).



1. Hollywoodwinds, I imagine
2. Hollywood Woodwinds is somehow worse than just putting Orchestral between the two words

Perc I have no idea


----------



## Michael Stibor

peladio said:


> No abrasive marketing, hype, just superior product..you are as classy as your products and deserve all the success..
> 
> Also could you people not spam this thread with BBC again and keep it about CSW?


Agreed. I think there's enough threads about Spitfire products already. Maybe it's the result of that abrasive marketing.


----------



## CT

Michael Stibor said:


> Agreed. I think there's enough threads about Spitfire products already. Maybe it's the result of that abrasive marketing.



Or this is a forum about virtual instruments and discussions are bound to bleed into each other.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Mike T said:


> Or this is a forum about virtual instruments and discussions are bound to bleed into each other.


True. I suppose I'd rather read about Spitfire products and how they might relate to CSW, more than four pages about whole tone sampling.

Actually I'd just rather CSW come out, so I don't have to _read_ about anything for a while.


----------



## Casiquire

Michael Stibor said:


> True. I suppose I'd rather read about Spitfire products and how they might relate to CSW, more than four pages about whole tone sampling.
> 
> Actually I'd just rather CSW come out, so I don't have to _read_ about anything for a while.


I don't know, I think whole tone sampling is worth discussing. Just like every other aspect of virtual instruments. That particular discussion may not have been the most constructive but as a topic it's interesting to learn both sides of


----------



## pawelmorytko

Since CSW didn't release on the 10th like people predicted, I've had my money on it for a while that it will be releasing on the 14th. Will see!


----------



## muziksculp

Well.. I'm hoping it will be released before the big announcement by OT on Dec. 17th.

I'm also guessing that CSW will (hopefully) be released any day between (Dec. 11th and Dec. 16th.)

The sooner the better.


----------



## Eptesicus

Im hopeful for next week at some point.


----------



## CT

More time to talk about Spitfire, nice!


----------



## muziksculp

I wish *VSL Synchron Woodwinds Pro* will be released soon. VSL Woodwinds are always great sounding.


----------



## RogiervG

muziksculp said:


> I wish *VSL Synchron Woodwinds Pro* will be released soon. VSL Woodwinds are always great sounding.


stop hijacking this thread with other products than Alex his products


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> I wish *VSL Synchron Woodwinds Pro* will be released soon. VSL Woodwinds are always great sounding.


There are no "other" woodwind libraries than CSW. And as CSW isn't released, there are no woodwind libraries.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Casiquire said:


> I don't know, I think whole tone sampling is worth discussing. Just like every other aspect of virtual instruments. That particular discussion may not have been the most constructive but as a topic it's interesting to learn both sides of


Is it though? I mean, at the end of the day, what does it change? Either a program sounds good or it doesn’t. I think a lot is on the programming and execution. How many tones are sampled MAY or may not have an effect on the results as much as other factors. But hey if it’s interesting to other by all means. I’m just stating my own little opinion.


----------



## muziksculp

RogiervG said:


> stop hijacking this thread with other products than Alex his products



I was just trying to speed up the release of CSW.


----------



## Casiquire

Michael Stibor said:


> Is it though? I mean, at the end of the day, what does it change? Either a program sounds good or it doesn’t. I think a lot is on the programming and execution. How many tones are sampled MAY or may not have an effect on the results as much as other factors. But hey if it’s interesting to other by all means. I’m just stating my own little opinion.


It changes how how can use the library (the transposition trick, neighbor round robins, open strings, etc), the size and hardware hit of the libraries, there are a lot of differences.


----------



## Robert_G

How many times has everyone hovered over the 'woodwinds' upcoming link at Cinematic Studios and 'clicked' a few times 'just in case' ??


----------



## ricoderks

Robert_G said:


> How many times has everyone hovered over the 'woodwinds' upcoming link at Cinematic Studios and 'clicked' a few times 'just in case' ??


I even tried to replace the word in the link from strings/brass to woodwinds... no luck


----------



## ZeeCount

ricoderks said:


> I even tried to replace the word in the link from strings/brass to woodwinds... no luck



I'm guilty of this as well


----------



## muziksculp

For your convenience, will post one on every new page of this topic : 

https://cinematicstudioseries.com/


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Robert_G said:


> How many times has everyone hovered over the 'woodwinds' upcoming link at Cinematic Studios and 'clicked' a few times 'just in case' ??


Wait a second ... you mean to tell me constantly pushing the woodwinds button on the site won't make them release any faster?!


----------



## CATDAD

Robert_G said:


> How many times has everyone hovered over the 'woodwinds' upcoming link at Cinematic Studios and 'clicked' a few times 'just in case' ??



Or staring at the top banner ad wondering if it'll suddenly just flip to green!

(for those of you who WEREN'T doing that but now are, I am so sorry)


----------



## CT

Michael Stibor said:


> Is it though? I mean, at the end of the day, what does it change? Either a program sounds good or it doesn’t. I think a lot is on the programming and execution. How many tones are sampled MAY or may not have an effect on the results as much as other factors. But hey if it’s interesting to other by all means. I’m just stating my own little opinion.



There are a lot of harmonic possibilities that include two or more adjacent notes. If each note hasn't been sampled, or individual players haven't been provided, those close harmonies are just going to sound crummier than they should. No way around it.

Everybody has different priorities with sampling, but wishing for more chromatic libraries isn't some esoteric concern. It's another one of those little things that contributes to a plastic, fake effect, when missing.


----------



## shponglefan

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Wait a second ... you mean to tell me constantly pushing the woodwinds button on the site won't make them release any faster?!



Well, we don't know that it won't. Keep clicking just to be sure.


----------



## ricoderks

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Wait a second ... you mean to tell me constantly pushing the woodwinds button on the site won't make them release any faster?!


Haha. Yes strange. I imagine Alex has this huge red alarm light flashing when someone tries to access the woodwinds page now


----------



## purple

Mike T said:


> There are a lot of harmonic possibilities that include two or more adjacent notes. If each note hasn't been sampled, or individual players haven't been provided, those close harmonies are just going to sound crummier than they should. No way around it.
> 
> Everybody has different priorities with sampling, but wishing for more chromatic libraries isn't some esoteric concern. It's another one of those little things that contributes to a plastic, fake effect, when missing.


I just doubt it's a priority issue with sample libraries. Whole tone sampling is not the limiting factor for realism with a library and even with a great library the limiting factors are likely skill and more importantly how much time you have to spend on the mockup.


----------



## CT

purple said:


> I just doubt it's a priority issue with sample libraries. Whole tone sampling is not the limiting factor for realism with a library and even with a great library the limiting factors are likely skill and more importantly how much time you have to spend on the mockup.



Of course. Which is why I didn't say it's a priority issue, but one of those "little things" that add up to what is, for me, a noticeable and undesirable effect.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

I hope the Contrabassoon has an incredible tone.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I hope the Contrabassoon has an incredible tone.


Depends on if it’s whole tone sampled or not! *quickly ducks*


----------



## Symfoniq

hbjdk said:


> Depends on if it’s whole tone sampled or not! *quickly ducks*



Now that’s a low blow...


----------



## ZeeCount

Symfoniq said:


> Now that’s a low blow...



So is a Contrabassoon!


----------



## CATDAD

ZeeCount said:


> So is a Contrabassoon!



Wait now I'm confused, how is a contrabassoon also an oboe?


----------



## Neifion

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but I got this ad in another thread:


----------



## Noc

Neifion said:


> Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but I got this ad in another thread:


Yep, it’s been appearing at random in the sidebar for a few days now.

Naughty Alex, teasing us so.


----------



## RMH

It's harder to wait because I know it's coming out.


----------



## Creoin

Maybe this is going too far, but I edited the page in my browser to better imagine what it may look like when it does release...


----------



## RogiervG

Creoin said:


> Maybe this is going too far, but I edited the page in my browser to better imagine what it may look like when it does release...



that doesn't make it being released sooner 

btw still weird there are string players only in the big "banner" on that website, considering there is also brass and piano (and very soon woodwinds)


----------



## ATWComposer

Hey guys! My name's Aaron, I just joined VI. I've always come here to look around for technical help (and to look at this hilarious thread), but I figured why not sign up and say something! Time to (officially?) join the hype train that is Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.


----------



## Tremendouz

ATWComposer said:


> Hey guys! My name's Aaron, I just joined VI. I've always come here to look around for technical help (and to look at this hilarious thread), but I figured why not sign up and say something! Time to (officially?) join the hype train that is Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.


Hello Aaron, the train welcomes you. Choo choo!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Creoin said:


> Maybe this is going too far, but I edited the page in my browser to better imagine what it may look like when it does release...


Yup, we _are_ becoming a little crazy


----------



## Creoin

RogiervG said:


> that doesn't make it being released sooner



...but I can imagine that it's released, and downloading now, but somehow it seems it'll take a week or two to finish downloading... 



RogiervG said:


> btw still weird there are string players only in the big "banner" on that website, considering there is also brass and piano (and very soon woodwinds)



Hmm, I suppose there's only one section in the studio at a time, but he could do 3 columns of images by now...


----------



## Creoin

Bluemount Score said:


> Yup, we _are_ becoming a little crazy



Glad we have this thread to help us deal with it


----------



## Bluemount Score

Creoin said:


> Glad we have this thread to help us deal with it


I have the fear this thread is making it worse


----------



## davidhewitson

Creoin said:


> Maybe this is going too far, but I edited the page in my browser to better imagine what it may look like when it does release...


Get out the house for a bit!


----------



## Jaap

All posts after this post untill Alex posts that it is released, will be put at the back of the line of purchases (mention Spitfire, VSL and anything else and you won't be able to purchase it till N is released...)


----------



## prodigalson

Creoin said:


> Maybe this is going too far, but I edited the page in my browser to better imagine what it may look like when it does release...



...maybe you could write some music either inspired by your joy and love for CSW or by your obvious descent into madness with some woodwinds you already own.


----------



## ethormusic

We're so close to CSW being released... I can almost taste it...


----------



## Creoin

Hmm, it only takes 30 seconds to do what I did if you know what you're doing. I thought the result was funny and wanted to share it, that's all. I imagine that it can be an alarming image, so I'm sorry for any confusion caused. The effect is only local, and doesn't affect the site at all.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

If woodwinds cause a 79 page thread before there is any idea about the release, what will happen if CSS2 is announced?


----------



## davidhewitson

Creoin said:


> Hmm, it only takes 30 seconds to do what I did if you know what you're doing. I thought the result was funny and wanted to share it, that's all. I imagine that it can be an alarming image, so I'm sorry for any confusion caused. The effect is only local, and doesn't affect the site at all.


Don't worry, I had tried changing the URL myself - that's when I realised I was getting too obsessed


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Symfoniq said:


> Now that’s a low blow...


Meant no harm, just having some fun that’s all


----------



## dts_marin

ATWComposer said:


> Hey guys! My name's Aaron, I just joined VI. I've always come here to look around for technical help (and to look at this hilarious thread), but I figured why not sign up and say something! Time to (officially?) join the hype train that is Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.


Hi Aaron! Good luck in your Venture on VIControl! Oops wrong Aaron and thread...


----------



## Symfoniq

hbjdk said:


> Meant no harm, just having some fun that’s all



Copy that! I was playing along, if you can forgive the pun:



> I hope the Contrabassoon has an incredible tone.





> Depends on if it’s whole tone sampled or not! *quickly ducks*





> Now that’s a low blow...


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Me getting ready to start page 80 of this thread


----------



## ethormusic

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Me getting ready to start page 80 of this thread


Place your bets ladies and gentlemen. Will this thread reach 100 pages _before_ or _after_ Cinematic Studio Woodwinds is released?


----------



## ATWComposer

dts_marin said:


> Hi Aaron! Good luck in your Venture on VIControl! Oops wrong Aaron and thread...


That took me a second to get, but I get it now 😆


----------



## muziksculp

DarkestShadow said:


> If woodwinds cause a 79 page thread before there is any idea about the release, what will happen if CSS2 is announced?



LOL.. You gave me an idea for a new topic.


----------



## cqd

The 'Coming soon..' in the ad is almost taking the piss out of us..


----------



## ethormusic

The one thing I wonder about is, what version of Kontakt is CSW going to be running on? I read in another thread on here (VI Control) that there are some issues with Kontakt 6.4.2. Is AW waiting for an update to Kontakt before releasing?


----------



## muziksculp

ethormusic said:


> The one thing I wonder about is, what version of Kontakt is CSW going to be running on? I read in another thread on here (VI Control) that there are some issues with Kontakt 6.4.2. Is AW waiting for an update to Kontakt before releasing?



I hope NI is not holding us hostage for the release of CSW. That would be such a bummer.


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> I hope NI is not holding us hostage for the release of CSW. That would be such a bummer.


Me either. But AW also tends to release on the latest version of Kontakt... and I can't blame him, because piracy is still difficult to stop with Kontakt libraries (part of the reason why Spitfire and Orchestral Tools are moving away from Kontakt). For him, widespread piracy of his libraries would ruin him and his company.


----------



## CT

It's out 

























of control how long this thread is already!


----------



## tack

Mike T said:


> It's out


Reminiscent of


----------



## Robert_G

Mike T said:


> It's out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of control how long this thread is already!




It's 3 AM where Alex lives. You need to at least get the time of day right to be convincing.


----------



## Tremendouz




----------



## CT

Robert_G said:


> It's 3 AM where Alex lives. You need to at least get the time of day right to be convincing.



Wow you're right. I must be on Spitfire time. Speaking of Spitfire, managing some beautiful stuff today thanks to them!


----------



## ansthenia

Mike T said:


> Wow you're right. I must be on Spitfire time. Speaking of Spitfire, managing some beautiful stuff today thanks to them!


Pfft get that Spitfire crap out of this beautiful Cinematic Studio thread.


----------



## CT

ansthenia said:


> Pfft get that Spitfire crap out of this beautiful Cinematic Studio thread.



No!


----------



## muziksculp

Alex W. Needs to have his own Cinematic Studio Forum


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Every time someone posts in this thread, Alex delays the library by an extra day ......


Whoops.


----------



## muziksculp

While we wait for CSW to be released. I thought it might fun to listen to some Woodwind music. 

Here is a Bassoon Concerto by *Vivaldi*, I don't usually listen a lot to Bassoon centric music, so this was very entertaining to listen to, the Bassoon can get quite emotional, and expressive, it's like talking to us. saying a lots of interesting things ... Listen


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> While we wait for CSW to be released. I thought it might fun to listen to some Woodwind music.
> 
> Here is a Bassoon Concerto by *Vivaldi*, I don't usually listen a lot to Bassoon centric music, so this was very entertaining to listen to, the Bassoon can get quite emotional, and expressive, it's like talking to us. saying a lots of interesting things ... Listen



Thanks for sharing! I neither hear a lot of Bassoon focused music.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

Robert_G said:


> It's 3 AM where Alex lives. You need to at least get the time of day right to be convincing.


3 AM is when I do my best work, so.-....


----------



## muziksculp

Hi @Bluemount Score , You are very welcome.

I really felt that with all this waiting, and related posts, we are forgetting what it's all about ...

The Music ! 

Listening to her Bassoon performance made my day, and put a big  on my face.


----------



## ZeeCount

muziksculp said:


> While we wait for CSW to be released. I thought it might fun to listen to some Woodwind music.
> 
> Here is a Bassoon Concerto by *Vivaldi*, I don't usually listen a lot to Bassoon centric music, so this was very entertaining to listen to, the Bassoon can get quite emotional, and expressive, it's like talking to us. saying a lots of interesting things ... Listen




I'll raise you with my favorite Oboe Concerto by Vaughan Williams:


----------



## filipjonathan

muziksculp said:


> While we wait for CSW to be released. I thought it might fun to listen to some Woodwind music.
> 
> Here is a Bassoon Concerto by *Vivaldi*, I don't usually listen a lot to Bassoon centric music, so this was very entertaining to listen to, the Bassoon can get quite emotional, and expressive, it's like talking to us. saying a lots of interesting things ... Listen



Wow... I never really thought of the bassoon as this agile... Beautiful music of course


----------



## Bluemount Score

DarkestShadow said:


> 3 AM is when I do my best work, so.-....


Weirdly enough, me too


----------



## ThomasJ.Curran

ZeeCount said:


> I'll raise you with my favorite Oboe Concerto by Vaughan Williams:



That Vaughan Williams concerto is such a beautiful work


----------



## coprhead6

John Williams Bassoon Concerto
My ex played this with the man himself conducting!


----------



## muziksculp

The Bassoon can get very lyrical, emotional, and expressive. 

I personally, most of the time, used to give more attention to the Flute, Oboe, and English Horn, than the Bassoon. 

But that's surely not the case any more. It's very surprising how beautiful the Bassoon sounds, it's not just a low-register double reed instrument to double celli, or fill out the bottom register. It can play a leading role if that is needed. Beautiful for melodic lines.


----------



## Rob Elliott

IMHO - Powell's Bourne theme (nearly 20 yrs ago) made the Bassoon 'cool' again. One of my personal favs to lead out a theme.

CSW instruments FIRST tried out (in order)

Bassoon
Oboe
Clarinet
Flute

after that, no matter....(Honorable mention is to check the 'tone' on Contrabassoon and Bass Clarinet - that they are 'full bodied' and not vacant like so often heard in samples... :( )


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Mike T said:


> Wow you're right. I must be on Spitfire time. Speaking of Spitfire, managing some beautiful stuff today thanks to them!


We're all saying silly things to get us through this difficult CSW-less period.


----------



## CT

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> We're all saying silly things to get us through this difficult CSW-less period.



I would be happy to come to feel that my very narrow window of virtual instruments with a reasonable ratio of satisfaction to annoyance being filled predominantly by a single developer is silly, but alas!


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Mike T said:


> I would be happy to come to feel that my very narrow window of virtual instruments with a reasonable ratio of satisfaction to annoyance being filled predominantly by a single developer is silly, but alas!


Your lack of zealous devotion to CSW is troubling


----------



## CT

Oh don't worry, I hover around the thread because I maintain hope that this may in fact be the woodwind library to beat....


----------



## cqd

Announced tomorrow I reckon..


----------



## Bluemount Score

Mike T said:


> Oh don't worry, I hover around the thread because I maintain hope that this may in fact be the woodwind library to beat....


Beautiful new profile picture, Sir Mike T!


----------



## madfloyd

What makes you guys think that this is coming out this year? And what are the chances it will be the quality of CSS vs CSB?


----------



## Bluemount Score

madfloyd said:


> What makes you guys think that this is coming out this year?


Alex W. said he had a good feeling about it (like in fall 2019)!!


madfloyd said:


> And what are the chances it will be the quality of CSS vs CSB?


Trust!


----------



## JEPA

Bluemount Score said:


> Alex W. said he had a good feeling about it (like in fall 2019)!!
> 
> Trust!


“A good feeling” and “Trust”, 81 thread pages, two years ... interesting how Human Being behaves, worth a study 🤪


----------



## Tremendouz

This time around we got more detailed info such as the patch list and a couple of demos, however. So, all in all I have a pretty good feeling about 2020 release as well


----------



## Bluemount Score

JEPA said:


> “A good feeling” and “Trust”, 81 thread pages, two years ... interesting how Human Being behaves, worth a study 🤪


perhaps exchange "trust" with "despair"


----------



## CT

Bluemount Score said:


> Beautiful new profile picture, Sir Mike T!



Courtesy of one of our VI-Control Discord friends (don't think he is on the forum).


----------



## muziksculp

So.. Is tomorrow the BIG Day ?


----------



## purple

I'll set my clock ahead several hours and see if that works...


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> So.. Is tomorrow the BIG Day ?


Yes... again


----------



## Eptesicus

muziksculp said:


> So.. Is tomorrow the BIG Day ?



Maybe




Maybe not


----------



## jules

Well... with each and every CS release, the problem remains the same : what are we supposed to do with our _other _libraries ?


----------



## Casiquire

Why is everyone thinking it'll be tomorrow?


----------



## Robert_G

Casiquire said:


> Why is everyone thinking it'll be tomorrow?



Because it didn't happen today


----------



## pawelmorytko

Casiquire said:


> Why is everyone thinking it'll be tomorrow?


Everyone's always thinking it will be tomorrow every day 

Edit: However, saying that, I still think it will be announced tomorrow, I just have a feeling you know!


----------



## Bluemount Score

pawelmorytko said:


> Everyone's always thinking it will be tomorrow every day
> 
> Edit: However, saying that, I still think it will be announced tomorrow, I just have a feeling you know!


Except there is not gonna be any announcement, it's just gonna be there


----------



## Noc

Bluemount Score said:


> Except there is not gonna be any announcement, it's just gonna be there


Alex’s plan for gauging how attentive we are: Quietly post it on the site, and then count the seconds/minutes before people here catch on. Anything above five minutes would mean our dedication is lacking (or our page-auto-refresh plugins are broken) …


----------



## borisb2

Isnt that like with these minutes just before a (rock-) concert is starting? waves of people suddenly start to clap and cheer, expecting a start.. then the waves fade off in disappointment until the next one starts a few minutes later - louder .. until the lights finally go off and people go crazy 

to that analogy:
lighting guys climb on top of the truss to reach their position <> changes on cinematic website
lights go off <> the CSW release announcement
people go crazy <> people go crazy
first minutes sound like sh*t <> why is the download not working


----------



## Tremendouz

Hmm, the site has been updated and it seems like there's been a change of plans?


----------



## CATDAD

Tremendouz said:


> Hmm, the site has been updated and it seems like there's been a change of plans?


Zithers getting delayed _*yet again* _for this kind of novel trash... I'm starting to think even their woodwinds might come out before CSZ is released! 




For real though, the legato programming required for a convincing kazoo solo library would actually probably be pretty challenging and I'm not sure any other developer would be a better fit for the task than Cinematic Studio.


----------



## Symfoniq

Tremendouz said:


> Hmm, the site has been updated and it seems like there's been a change of plans?



And the surprises just keep coming:


----------



## borisb2

you scared the heck out of me


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Tremendouz said:


> Hmm, the site has been updated and it seems like there's been a change of plans?



Absolute genius move by Alex. Literally, no one has yet to conquer the Mount Everest that is Kazoo sampling. But if there's anyone that can nail it, it's Alex and his team.


----------



## Robert_G

Symfoniq said:


> And the surprises just keep coming:



That isn't even funny....


----------



## muziksculp

Here is some C.P.E. Bach Flute music, Performed using the Baroque Flute, which is a one-keyed flute. (aka Traverso), usually made of boxwood, rosewood or ebony.

I personally prefer the way it sounds to the modern silver flute. I know this is not the type of flute in the upcoming CSW, but I just wanted to share the sound of this beautiful, and very lyrical flute with you. 

It also happens to be my favorite woodwind instrument. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## muziksculp

Here is a pic of my Baroque Flute


----------



## antames

Hmm, it appears their website has just been updated again:


----------



## dbudimir

muziksculp said:


> Here is a pic of my Baroque Flute





muziksculp said:


> Here is a pic of my Baroque Flute
> 
> 
> antames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, it appears their website has just been updated again:
Click to expand...


If it’s not baroque don’t fix it..... Couldn’t resist.🙃


----------



## muziksculp

dbudimir said:


> If it’s not baroque don’t fix it..... Couldn’t resist.🙃


----------



## CT

muziksculp said:


> Here is a pic of my Baroque Flute



Sample that thing! We really need some great period instrument libraries.


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> Sample that thing! We really need some great period instrument libraries.



By the way.. VSL has sampled a Baroque Flute, plus other Baroque woodwinds. 

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Additional_Winds_Bundle/Historic_Winds_I


----------



## muziksculp

I'm a big fan of Period Instruments, mainly the Baroque Period.

Woodwinds, and Strings. They had a more pleasing timbre, more singing to my ears, less harsh, and very soothing. They didn't project as much as their modern counterparts, which were better at projecting their sound further during the 19th, century, when concert halls were getting larger, and larger. The price modern instruments had to pay to get louder is their Timbre.

Also to note that Baroque Instruments were tuned to a lower reference tone of a=415 instead of 440 Khz.


----------



## CT

muziksculp said:


> By the way.. VSL has sampled a Baroque Flute, plus other Baroque woodwinds.
> 
> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Additional_Winds_Bundle/Historic_Winds_I



I'm familiar with those, yes.

Always room for more! I also have a special fondness for the Baroque sound, well, our understanding of what the Baroque sound was.


----------



## muziksculp

Mike T said:


> I'm familiar with those, yes.
> 
> Always room for more! I also have a special fondness for the Baroque sound, well, our understanding of what the Baroque sound was.



It would be interesting to see if VSL would sample them again in their Synchron Stage. That would be wonderful.

Anyways.. I don't want to go too off topic here. Since we are all waiting for the release of CSW, and they are not Baroque Woodwinds


----------



## CT

This reminds me, I need to write the Netherlands Bach Society to see if they want to work with me on a sample library.


----------



## purple

Symfoniq said:


> And the surprises just keep coming:








They finally really did it. YOU MANIACS! YOU FINALLY BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU!!!! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!!!!


----------



## Creoin

Oh my goodness!!! I was not expecting this update!!


----------



## ricoderks

Creoin said:


> Oh my goodness!!! I was not expecting this update!!


Finally! Symphony Zithers!


----------



## Jaap




----------



## Kurosawa

Not funny.


----------



## jimjazzuk

Will you all bloody stop it


----------



## constaneum

It's getting annoying and frustrating with all these countless spams. Ahahah


----------



## Beans

VI Control: Musicians Misinforming Musicians.


----------



## stodesign12

This is a bit off topic, but it's one of my favorite woodwinds pieces, I wish I could get the same vibes with CSW


----------



## Bluemount Score

Jaap said:


>


Stop, I'm getting crazy!!! Nobody is gonna believe it or buy the library when it's actually out.


----------



## Beans

Bluemount Score said:


> Stop, I'm getting crazy!!! Nobody is gonna believe it or buy the library when it's actually out.



I imagine there will be a new thread once it's released. In the very least, there will be a post in one of the Commercial Announcements boards. No reason to check this one.


----------



## JonS

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Man, JNH is SO underrated. I remember reading that too- he did the score for Kong in less than six WEEKS. And it's such a beautiful score. Great mockup btw!


Interestingly, Peter Jackson said after the score was complete that if JNH had more time perhaps the score would have been better. This implied he did not love the score. I was surprised he said this given how many hours he worked on the score non-stop. Why complain about this when you only give a composer a short window to write an enormous amount of original music. Often, composers are asked to do the impossible and yet others think it's easy work when in actuality its incredibly long hours and no days off.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Hmmm . Just an outside possibility - a tiny one - That CSW , or perhaps Jaspers Performance Strings or less likely AudioBRO new library has something to do with the Thursday announcement by O.T ?
Could that be a partnership announced ? Sine version of CSW free for all buyers of the Kontakt version .

Arghh we need more info !


----------



## Bluemount Score

Paul Jelfs said:


> Hmmm . Just an outside possibility - a tiny one - That CSW , or perhaps Jaspers Performance Strings or less likely AudioBRO new library has something to do with the Thursday announcement by O.T ?
> Could that be a partnership announced ? Sine version of CSW free for all buyers of the Kontakt version .
> 
> Arghh we need more info !


Eh... what?


----------



## MGdepp

I hope CSW scripting will finally allow the user to freely assign midi CC (and maybe also automation, although this is not a must to me) to ALL parameters. I found this to be the only weak point in the CS series, as I load my template without looking at the GUI and want to be able to tweak all possible settings via Midi (custom Lemur touch surface) and save them within the sequence per project. Also, it find it a bad decision to let CC1 control dynamics with the longs and at the same time choose the exact notes with the shorts. That always leads to unnecessary mistakes in complex sequences. It could easily be solved by letting the user decide, what CCs to use for what parameter. It would be great, if that could also happen for CSS, CSSS and CSB.

Otherwise, I am looking forwards to this release! Apart from those problems, the CS Series is one of my best sample library buys of all time, I suppose.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Here is some C.P.E. Bach Flute music, Performed using the Baroque Flute, which is a one-keyed flute. (aka Traverso), usually made of boxwood, rosewood or ebony.
> 
> I personally prefer the way it sounds to the modern silver flute. I know this is not the type of flute in the upcoming CSW, but I just wanted to share the sound of this beautiful, and very lyrical flute with you.
> 
> It also happens to be my favorite woodwind instrument.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp



It's a beautiful instrument! And of course VSL sampled it, and it really sounds good to my ears






HISTORIC WINDS I - Vienna Symphonic Library


This Collection features recordings of five rare instruments from the Renaissance and Baroque periods: Transverse flute, Baroque oboe, oboe da caccia, ophicleide, and serpent.




www.vsl.co.at





Edit: you already beat me to it!


----------



## ethormusic

Paul Jelfs said:


> Hmmm . Just an outside possibility - a tiny one - That CSW , or perhaps Jaspers Performance Strings or less likely AudioBRO new library has something to do with the Thursday announcement by O.T ?
> Could that be a partnership announced ? Sine version of CSW free for all buyers of the Kontakt version .
> 
> Arghh we need more info !


I'm doubtful that any company other than OT is going to be moving their libraries to SINE.


----------



## ethormusic

Jaap said:


>


This is just evil!


----------



## Loïc D

muziksculp said:


> Here is a pic of my Baroque Flute


It has keys ? 🤣


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

The Cinematic studio Woodwinds thread in a nutshell:


----------



## ethormusic




----------



## Bluemount Score

Anybody has a clue when Sandwiches are available again?


----------



## muziksculp

Loïc D said:


> It has keys ? 🤣



Yes, and if you play the keys it whistles back at you.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Bluemount Score said:


> Anybody has a clue when Sandwiches are available again?



Just emailed Alex, he told me the ham and cheese on rye has true legato. Oh, we are in for a treat.


----------



## Kaiuttaja

stodesign12 said:


> This is a bit off topic, but it's one of my favorite woodwinds pieces, I wish I could get the same vibes with CSW



Zelda Breath Of The Wild music is also so nicely mixed. You can hear every single instrument so clearly. Also I love that clarinet in Rito village day theme.


----------



## Beans

Kaiuttaja said:


> Zelda Breath Of The Wild music is also so nicely mixed. You can hear every single instrument so clearly. Also I love that clarinet in Rito village day theme.



It really is. It's also a good example of the value of simplicity. Some interesting doubling, but not a whole lot else going on.


----------



## Rob Elliott

JonS said:


> Interestingly, Peter Jackson said after the score was complete that if JNH had more time perhaps the score would have been better. This implied he did not love the score. I was surprised he said this given how many hours he worked on the score non-stop. Why complain about this when you only give a composer a short window to write an enormous amount of original music. Often, composers are asked to do the impossible and yet others think it's easy work when in actuality its incredibly long hours and no days off.


May be wrong but I wonder how much Jackson thought the score would save an otherwise mediocre film? It felt like he 'divorced' his first score only to find the second score/wife didn't fix everything. 


I guess we do the same by 'fixing it in the mix'.


----------



## ChickenAndARoll

Kaiuttaja said:


> Zelda Breath Of The Wild music is also so nicely mixed. You can hear every single instrument so clearly. Also I love that clarinet in Rito village day theme.


I think Pokemon games also have great music as well. Here's a good example of lyrical woodwind lines, and if I remember correctly, the composer used VSL Special Edition 1 and 2 for the woodwinds: *Littleroot Theme*


----------



## averystemmler

MGdepp said:


> I hope CSW scripting will finally allow the user to freely assign midi CC (and maybe also automation, although this is not a must to me) to ALL parameters. I found this to be the only weak point in the CS series, as I load my template without looking at the GUI and want to be able to tweak all possible settings via Midi (custom Lemur touch surface) and save them within the sequence per project. Also, it find it a bad decision to let CC1 control dynamics with the longs and at the same time choose the exact notes with the shorts. That always leads to unnecessary mistakes in complex sequences. It could easily be solved by letting the user decide, what CCs to use for what parameter. It would be great, if that could also happen for CSS, CSSS and CSB.
> 
> Otherwise, I am looking forwards to this release! Apart from those problems, the CS Series is one of my best sample library buys of all time, I suppose.



I'm not at my PC at the moment, but I think you can reassign the dynamics CC within the settings panel in the instruments, and you can right click on just about any other control and reassign it within Kontakt. I removed CC01 from the shorts "wheel" in the interface, and just select them via UACC.


----------



## muziksculp

So... What are we waiting for ?


----------



## RogiervG

muziksculp said:


> So... What are we waiting for ?


for the moment we all can say: "i.. got woodwinds"


----------



## ricoderks

muziksculp said:


> So... What are we waiting for ?


waiting for 16 more pages with memes, to get to 100 before release


----------



## muziksculp

ricoderks said:


> waiting for 16 more pages with memes, to get to 100 before release



But that will put us in 2021


----------



## Fitz

Do people like Spitfire Studio Woods or should I wait to see what might be offered here? I'm in the market for a studio woodwind library.


----------



## muziksculp

Fitz said:


> Do people like Spitfire Studio Woods or should I wait to see what might be offered here? I'm in the market for a studio woodwind library.



*WAIT !*


----------



## ricoderks

Goo


Fitz said:


> Do people like Spitfire Studio Woods or should I wait to see what might be offered here? I'm in the market for a studio woodwind library.


Good meme! You have more?


----------



## Robert_G

Fitz said:


> Do people like Spitfire Studio Woods or should I wait to see what might be offered here? I'm in the market for a studio woodwind library.



They are lifeless and the core doesnt give you a proper mic mix


----------



## I like music

Fitz said:


> Do people like Spitfire Studio Woods or should I wait to see what might be offered here? I'm in the market for a studio woodwind library.


Can't go wrong with waiting. It'll only be a couple more years.


----------



## CT

Fitz said:


> Do people like Spitfire Studio Woods or should I wait to see what might be offered here? I'm in the market for a studio woodwind library.



They're a perfectly solid option for woodwinds in a non-spotlighted orchestral context, but we're so close with this one, why not wait if you can?


----------



## N.Caffrey

TOMORROW!!


----------



## Bluemount Score

N.Caffrey said:


> TOMORROW!!


LIKE ALWAYS!!


----------



## muziksculp

aka. MANIANA


----------



## Rob Elliott

Second Tuesday of next week......


----------



## constaneum

It'll definitely be out b4 Xmas!


----------



## muziksculp

constaneum said:


> It'll definitely be out b4 Xmas!



Which Year ?


----------



## MGdepp

averystemmler said:


> I'm not at my PC at the moment, but I think you can reassign the dynamics CC within the settings panel in the instruments, and you can right click on just about any other control and reassign it within Kontakt. I removed CC01 from the shorts "wheel" in the interface, and just select them via UACC.


Yes, you are right. But I would like to be able to do that with all the controlls provided for the CS series. E.g., I also want to be able switch legato on/off via midi CC.
You are right that I could prevent that conclict between shorts notes selection and dynamics by changing dynamics to another CC. But I would rather keep dynamics on CC 1, as that is my modulation wheel. Hence, give me ALL the flexibility!


----------



## jneebz

RELEASE DATE IS DECEMBER 15th.


The 15th of Never.


----------



## MGdepp

Oh, and I forgot: I don't want that niente (fading from silence with dynamics) for the brass. It just isn't realistic and it stops me from using the lowest dynamic settings in fear of reaching zero. For all brass instruments that is not possible and with some woodwinds it won't happen either ... so, please, make that an option!

Ok, apart from those the CS series is near perfect, though!


----------



## antames




----------



## jon wayne

Alex is making a list and checking it twice. Hey Alex, Whenever you want to deliver is fine. Just remember, I have been nice in this thread! Ho Ho!


----------



## I like music

lol maybe he Staypuft us with those demos ...


----------



## antames

I actually don't mind when it gets released. All of the memes are just for fun and does not actually reflect how I feel. I hope Alex takes his time and doesn't feel any sense of pressure from this forum, despite the fun and games.


----------



## muziksculp

antames said:


> I hope Alex takes his time



Sure, we can wait a couple more years. No Problem


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

muziksculp said:


> Sure, we can wait a couple more years. No Problem


Hope not - I've already decided my latest video game work will not be delivered until CSW is in it.


----------



## constaneum

muziksculp said:


> Which Year ?



2020. lol


----------



## muziksculp

Funny, we have a little over two weeks left for this year to end, and a bunch of sample libraries are expected to be out before 2021. 

Sadly, non of them is out yet, it seems like we have a major case of sample library release constipation  Laxatives might help at this point.


----------



## RMH

I feel like I'm going to pass this year. I'm nervous.


----------



## stodesign12

muziksculp said:


> Funny, we have a little over two weeks left for this year to end, and a bunch of sample libraries are expected to be out before 2021.
> 
> Sadly, non of them is out yet, it seems like we have a major case of sample library release constipation  Laxatives might help at this point.


Which libraries? I only know about CSW and the big OT announcement.


----------



## muziksculp

stodesign12 said:


> Which libraries? I only know about CSW and the big OT announcement.



Also, 

* Performance Samples : Vista
* AudioBros : MSS
* Strezov Sampling : JADE Ethnic Orch. (Update). 
* Organic Samples : Vivid Keys (Update)
* Maybe something form VSL . Pure speculation.


----------



## stodesign12

muziksculp said:


> Also,
> 
> * Performance Samples : Vista
> * AudioBros : MSS
> * Strezov Sampling : JADE Ethnic Orch. (Update).
> * Organic Samples : Vivid Keys (Update)
> * Maybe something form VSL . Pure speculation.


Oh I see, thank you for your answer. I actually would love something new from VSL.


----------



## muziksculp

stodesign12 said:


> I actually would love something new from VSL.



Yes, same here. Now that they are done with their BBO library line.

I think it's about time they continue releasing their Core Synchron Library sections.


----------



## mafan

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Hope not - I've already decided my latest video game work will not be delivered until CSW is in it.


I’m on the same boat. Please Alex! Not another couple of years.


----------



## borisb2

I heard Alex is thinking of merging the release of CSW with CSP - when that's ready.


----------



## VivianaSings

Not sure if it'd happen but I'd love to see that this new legato time compensation system Alex is working on where there's just a single compensation amount in ms, would be instituted in CSW. Then it's just a matter of porting the code over to CSB, CSS, and CSSS.


----------



## purple

muziksculp said:


> Also,
> 
> * Performance Samples : Vista
> * AudioBros : MSS
> * Strezov Sampling : JADE Ethnic Orch. (Update).
> * Organic Samples : Vivid Keys (Update)
> * Maybe something form VSL . Pure speculation.


HOOPUS was originally for a fall release iirc as well


----------



## muziksculp

purple said:


> HOOPUS was originally for a fall release iirc as well



That's right, Let's hope they can release it in Jan.


----------



## ethormusic

VivianaSings said:


> Not sure if it'd happen but I'd love to see that this new legato time compensation system Alex is working on where there's just a single compensation amount in ms, would be instituted in CSW. Then it's just a matter of porting the code over to CSB, CSS, and CSSS.


I've gotten used to the delay in CSB, CSS, and CSSS. So much so that I have a difficult time using anything but the adv legato for CSS and CSSS.


----------



## Thundercat

muziksculp said:


> Also to note that Baroque Instruments were tuned to a lower reference tone of a=415 instead of 440 Khz.


So...Queen of the Night aria is actually a tad bit lower if played in Mozart's tuning?


----------



## I like music

Delay settings:
CSS = Upto 333ms
CSB = Upto 333ms
CSW = Upto 333 years


----------



## purple

Thundercat said:


> So...Queen of the Night aria is actually a tad bit lower if played in Mozart's tuning?


There wasn't a single standard number at that time. Would have been different from region to region, country to country, orchestra to orchestra, and I'm sure also unfortunately player to player in some of the worst orchestras.


----------



## CT

Thundercat said:


> So...Queen of the Night aria is actually a tad bit lower if played in Mozart's tuning?



Not necessarily. By that time there's actually a chance it was a little higher than you'd typically hear it today.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

muziksculp said:


> Also,
> 
> * Performance Samples : Vista
> * AudioBros : MSS
> * Strezov Sampling : JADE Ethnic Orch. (Update).
> * Organic Samples : Vivid Keys (Update)
> * Maybe something form VSL . Pure speculation.




Let us not forget O.T. announcement on the 17th which will be another one surely


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Hmmm I wonder if Beethoven or Mozart, would spend their day reading every page of the local newspaper music section / village notice board , desperately waiting for the latest and greatest Woodwind section to come to town .... "Vienna Woodwinds - Arriving for hire before the end of the year" 

"I really should be writing some music, but I must work with those Vienna Woodwinds - Maybe today is the day they arrive ...... Ah S#[email protected]$, another days wait"


----------



## N.Caffrey

Any moment now


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Come on Alex, release the library already


----------



## Michael Stibor

Benjamin Duk said:


> Come on Alex, release the library already


Lol. Such an honest comment. That’s what we’re all thinking.


----------



## fourier

Interesting trend. (Highest peak 17-23.december of 2017)


----------



## Bluemount Score

N.Caffrey said:


> Any moment now


Like always


----------



## RogiervG

I will say TODAY (when the release day is actually today)


----------



## stodesign12

Imagine having the beautiful CSW green cover in Kontakt... today?


----------



## awaey




----------



## muziksculp

So.. MANIANA again ?

Or will it finally be released TODAY ?


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Ladies and gentlemen, it's officially bad. I had a dream last night that I woke up, went to my studio, and was downloading and playing CSW ... I have never had any composing/sample library related dreams before. Somebody send help


----------



## RogiervG

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, it's officially bad. I had a dream last night that I woke up, went to my studio, and was downloading and playing CSW ... I have never had any composing/sample library related dreams before. Somebody send help


You are loosing it... as a helping member: give me that csw, no, let met grab it .. No more csw for you!


----------



## muziksculp

This forum needs to add a dedicated Therapy Section.


----------



## Rob Elliott

muziksculp said:


> So.. MANIANA again ?
> 
> Or will it finally be released TODAY ?


Yes.


----------



## muziksculp

Rob Elliott said:


> Yes.



Yes to which one ?


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> So.. MANIANA again ?
> 
> Or will it be finally released TODAY ?


Possibly both, because Alex Wallbank lives in Austrailia.









Honestly I think either next week or when the next version of Kontakt 6 is released will be the likely release date of CSW. If it ends up being sooner, that's even better.


----------



## muziksculp

What's the next version of Kontakt 6 have to do with this release ? isn't he using the current latest version of K6 for CSW ?


----------



## RogiervG

i guess it's kontakt 5 series geared.. since the previous released are too. (compatibility, consistency etc)


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> What's the next version of Kontakt 6 have to do with this release ? isn't he using the current latest version of K6 for CSW ?


AW always releases on the latest version of Kontakt.


----------



## Paul Jelfs

Just to keep it in perspective, Alex lives in Australia right? So he is around 10-12 hours ahead of UK time, which is 6 in the evening. So that makes it around 4-6am in the morning there. 

Now I have no idea what times the other CS libraries came out, or whether he could sign the project off before going to sleep (if he is getting any at the moment!) but I would of thought the most likely time would be 9-5 in Aus. But thats a lot of speculation !


----------



## muziksculp

ethormusic said:


> AW always releases on the latest version of Kontakt.



Which might not happen this year


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> Which might not happen this year


It depends. What I am saying, like many others, is pure speculation.


----------



## RogiervG

if Alex is smart (and he surely is).. with the commercial momentum it has at present:
He will release it in 2020, either somewhere between now and christmas: this is most likely, because then you can have csw as christmas present! (or get it from someone)
Or.. between christmas and dec 30. (new years present)


----------



## Rob Elliott

muziksculp said:


> Yes to which one ?


Exactly, Yes.


----------



## muziksculp

Well, it makes no sense to me that AW is waiting for the next update version of Kontakt 6 to release the library that he has been testing, and working on using the current version of Kontakt 6.4.2


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> Well, it makes no sense to me that AW is waiting for the next update version of Kontakt 6 to release the library that he has been testing, and working on using the current version of Kontakt 6.4.2


I honestly couldn't care less what version he releases on.


----------



## muziksculp

ethormusic said:


> I honestly couldn't care less what version he releases on.



Yes, I agree. So... He should just release it TODAY


----------



## Paul Jelfs

I dont know too much about the final (infact any ) stage of making a sample library, but I guess once is it ready, the last parts of the process are very much in other peoples hands. 

Native Instruments probably needs to give it a seal of approval, as well encode NKS files etc if they have not done so already, and then there will be legal and publishing things to tie up, web design updates, hosting services arranged. 

The thing is , because this year has slowed EVERYTHING down, all these final stages will be on minimum staff, will probably have a huge backlog, and will take longer than usual. 

Alex is probably MORE frustrated than everyone on here , if that is the case, and he is held up by one part of the process.


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> Yes, I agree. So... He should just release it TODAY


You mean tomorrow.


----------



## muziksculp

ethormusic said:


> tomorrow



I don't like that word


----------



## RogiervG

Paul Jelfs said:


> I dont know too much about the final (infact any ) stage of making a sample library, but I guess once is it ready, the last parts of the process are very much in other peoples hands.
> 
> Native Instruments probably needs to give it a seal of approval, as well encode NKS files etc if they have not done so already, and then there will be legal and publishing things to tie up, web design updates, hosting services arranged.
> 
> The thing is , because this year has slowed EVERYTHING down, all these final stages will be on minimum staff, will probably have a huge backlog, and will take longer than usual.
> 
> Alex is probably MORE frustrated than everyone on here , if that is the case, and he is held up by one part of the process.



Well, some little things about this:
As i've heard from someone that has experience in this area:
As a certified (and granted developer) the Encoding of kontakt files is done automatic (by NI servers). No human hands involved. Just upload them.. and process them (queue). Then download the encoded files. How the payment works is not told.

Legal and stuff should already have been done now. (it's also needed to hire musicians, recording space, etc etc etc)

Web design should be done too, just a matter of uploading (which is quick enough).

The hosting of the samples is third party and i asume cloud based, so room enough there. Just pay up and get it. Matter of minutes to have it assigned. (mostly automatic i recon)

Adding the product to the payment process party is also quick to do. (same as adjusting it during sales)

Now here comes the part that might take longer.. the upload of the library to NI and later the encoded files to the hosting service. Depending on the upload speed, it can take a few minutes or several hours for them.

Not everything is slowed down though..

all in all, i guess it's not too much waiting for third party hands... at this point. (if even any still).


----------



## muziksculp

Well, let's think logically about this. 

If CSW is all done, and ready, then it will/should be released TODAY, why delay it any further if it is all ready to be released. 

Unless... There is something holding the library from being released, then we won't see it released today, We don't know what the reason is, but there surely is something that's holding it back. 

I'm sure AW would like it to be released Today if he could do that. 

We shall see, today is not over yet.


----------



## RogiervG

or he waits for a good moment to release it. (a certain day, for a certain reason)


----------



## muziksculp

RogiervG said:


> or he waits for a good moment to release it. (a certain day, for a certain reason)



= NOW


----------



## muziksculp

Let's not forget that the OT event is happening on Dec. 17th. So, that's not the best day to release CSW.


----------



## RogiervG

muziksculp said:


> Let's not forget that the OT event is happening on Dec. 17th. So, that's not a good day to release CSW.


well yes and no..
They might not be related sonically... so no overlap, or choosing between wood from OT or alex' wood. (oh that came out wrong.... i mean.. well.. woodwinds..)


----------



## muziksculp

OK.. I won't bother posting on this topic until it's released.  

Hopefully today.


----------



## RogiervG

hahaha, i like it how you manage to squeeze in the word today in every post you make


----------



## muziksculp

RogiervG said:


> hahaha, i like it how you manage to squeeze in the word today in every post you make



I told you, I don't like the word 'Tomorrow'


----------



## I like music

Everyone...!


----------



## Rob Elliott

I wouldn't release yet. Alex has so many 'marketing' for him - why stop that.  It could mean fewer sales. I would want to keep the frenzy alive!!!!!!!!

You want the library in the next few days - close this thread, stop talking about it....


----------



## Denkii

Rob Elliott said:


> I wouldn't release yet. Alex has so many 'marketing' for him - why stop that.  It could mean fewer sales. I would want to keep the frenzy alive!!!!!!!!
> 
> You want the library in the next few days - close this thread, stop talking about it....


Yeah...no. This forum (nor the others) is not representing the rest of the world. There's not enough data on similarweb or google trends to backup that claim. Edit: Not even enough to give you anything. Not even after the release got teased. That's kinda bad.
What's there in sistrix, searchmetrics and the like is kinda negligible.

Can't speak for the direct b2c marketing impact but as a returning customer I know that they barely do anything ever. Edit: Or maybe I am just not worthy? 

So everyone grab your keyboards and go fight the good fight.


----------



## ethormusic

As great as this thread has been, along with the hilarious comments and memes, this is not where I will first find out that CSW has released no matter how much I convince myself otherwise. Ultimately anyone who has a Cinematic Studio Series library will receive an email from AW's team with a loyalty discount. As soon as that happens, CSW will be officially released.


In the meantime, I'm going to have to take a break from following this thread so closely. I've turned off email notifications for the time being, so I apologize in advance if I don't reply to anybody else on any of my comments.

Cheers!


----------



## Casiquire

Thundercat said:


> So...Queen of the Night aria is actually a tad bit lower if played in Mozart's tuning?


Last I've heard, and I'm going from memory so I could be wrong, but our tuning today is on average higher than back then and yes the aria would have been easier back then. The reason I've heard floated around is in the fact that orchestras starting in the late 1800s or so realized that tuning slightly higher results in a slightly brighter sound and that became more popular and wound up with the standard of 440 in the early to mid 1900s. Austria and France in the early 1800s were standardized to 435, and before that it could be as low as 415 in some areas of the world but I don't see much reference showing it being significantly higher than 440. I think it's largely agreed that our tuning today is higher.


----------



## youngpokie

muziksculp said:


> Also to note that Baroque Instruments were tuned to a lower reference tone of a=415 instead of 440 Khz.



Well, very strictly speaking the 415 is the modern standard taken for baroque pitch because it's half a step lower than 440 and some historic instruments can switch between the two more easily. 

I understand that there was no standard whatsoever at the time and some locations used pitches even lower than 415...


----------



## CT

Casiquire said:


> Last I've heard, and I'm going from memory so I could be wrong, but our tuning today is on average higher than back then and yes the aria would have been easier back then. The reason I've heard floated around is in the fact that orchestras starting in the late 1800s or so realized that tuning slightly higher results in a slightly brighter sound and that became more popular and wound up with the standard of 440 in the early to mid 1900s. Austria and France in the early 1800s were standardized to 435, and before that it could be as low as 415 in some areas of the world but I don't see much reference showing it being significantly higher than 440. I think it's largely agreed that our tuning today is higher.



Mozart supposedly "preferred" A=422, but 450 was possible as a standard into the 19th century before it gradually came down again, largely at the urge of vocalists.


----------



## purple

I wonder if we can get to 100 before it even releases!


----------



## Casiquire

Mike T said:


> Mozart supposedly "preferred" A=422, but 450 was possible as a standard into the 19th century before it gradually came down again, largely at the urge of vocalists.


Idk what all the fuss is about, just about anyone can sing it


----------



## rudi

purple said:


> I wonder if we can get to 100 before it even releases!


Hz or pages?


----------



## Denkii

rudi said:


> Hz or pages?


Dollars on discount


----------



## jneebz

purple said:


> I wonder if we can get to 100 before it even releases!


Alex will release it on the 100th page...


----------



## Noc

jneebz said:


> Alex will release it on the 100th page...


Then we better get a move on. Single-word posts everyone!

EDIT: I’d like to thank myself for getting us onto page 89. Only 11 to go before CSW!


----------



## antames

Right


----------



## antames

then


----------



## antames

.


----------



## antames

Let


----------



## antames

us


----------



## antames

see


----------



## antames

how


----------



## col

I have no meaningful contributions.

But wait ...I can now look back and say " I was there in that moment in time and space, when a defining era in history was created by a select band of brothers. My VI-C handle immortalised alongside a glorious roll call of fearless Legends who put their lives and reputations on the line to make the world a more .....blah blah blah


----------



## Kony

muziksculp said:


> We don't know what the reason is, but there surely is something that's holding it back


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Vista is out ... Can we get a 2 for 2 with a CSW release on the same day? COME ON ALEX! We all believe in you!


----------



## JEPA

Was it a strategic move before OT event?


NathanTiemeyer said:


> Vista is out ... Can we get a 2 for 2 with a CSW release on the same day? COME ON ALEX! We all believe in you!


----------



## Jaap

2 hours of non posting... did they release it or something?

And here some nice music in the meantime (some great examples posted earlier) as I love how Vaughan Williams used the woodwinds here


----------



## JEPA

Jaap said:


> 2 hours of non posting... did they release it or something?
> 
> And here some nice music in the meantime (some great examples posted earlier) as I love how Vaughan Williams used the woodwinds here



Silence is the previous phenomenon before an earthquake...


----------



## Benjamin Duk

Come on Alex, release the library already


----------



## Toecutter

Let's try reverse psychology and ignore this thread #nocswchallenge


----------



## Dima Lanski

Toecutter said:


> Let's try reverse psychology and ignore this thread #nocswchallenge


I support this. #nocswchallenge


----------



## cqd

Toecutter said:


> Let's try reverse psychology and ignore this thread #nocswchallenge



I was considering this a couple of days ago..

Fine Alex..I don't want your bleeding woodwinds..


----------



## stodesign12

#nocswchallenge I totally don't want CSW...


----------



## Jaap

Who needs woodwinds anyway...


----------



## ysnyvz




----------



## AudioLoco

NeonMediaKJT said:


> When I saw that CSW was going to have a green UI, all I could think about was this:



Why am I watching his other videos now?


----------



## AudioLoco

Jaap said:


> Who needs woodwinds anyway...


Woodwinds are overrated: go!


----------



## Casiquire

Jaap said:


> 2 hours of non posting... did they release it or something?
> 
> And here some nice music in the meantime (some great examples posted earlier) as I love how Vaughan Williams used the woodwinds here



RVW is one of my favorites


----------



## Bluemount Score

AudioLoco said:


> Woodwinds are overrated: go!


In other words: The most underrated section of the orchestra is overrated. Go!


----------



## RogiervG

Guys, i have to admit, i'm weak.. after 10 seconds of not following this thread.. i just couldn't help myself: i want csw and need to follow this thread so badly.
i am a fail..


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

This will end up like Cyberpunk.


----------



## RogiervG

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> This will end up like Cyberpunk.


In the good sense of the word that is (bug free, good performing)


----------



## Bluemount Score

RogiervG said:


> Guys, i have to admit, i'm weak.. after 10 seconds of not following this thread.. i just couldn't help myself: i want csw and need to follow this thread so badly.
> i am a fail..


We are all in the same boat, buddy


----------



## Eptesicus

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> This will end up like Cyberpunk.



It better not!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

AudioLoco said:


> Why am I watching his other videos now?


Because he's very funny 😂


----------



## novaburst

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> This will end up like Cyberpunk.



 What a joke, i was really looking forward to this glad i did not pre order, hope for fixes in the not to far distant future


----------



## Marsen

But what if...
CSW will be the Jar Jar Binks of the cinematic series? *





* originally was "Jaja Bings" from noobish me - thanks @VivianaSings


----------



## Denkii

Marsen said:


> But what if...
> CSW will be the Jaja Bings of the cinematic series?


impossible. it was written in Jawa Script.


----------



## Robert_G

Just a thought....but since CSW is advertised for over a week now....it would make no sense to wait until after Christmas....no sense at all. People have Christmas money now. Take my money now.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Given MSS is delayed until end of January, I wonder if CSW will slip too now. Sunset Strings needed encoding from NI and won’t have that until Mid-January.


----------



## Robert_G

With only 16 days left in the month (year) it would be great for Alex to give us a '10 seconds of his day' update
@Alex W

Some of us are losing our minds.


----------



## VivianaSings

Marsen said:


> Jaja Bings



This is the best interpretation of his name I've ever seen.


----------



## Marsen

VivianaSings said:


> This is the best interpretation of his name I've ever seen.


Lol, I just screwed it up!

This happens, if a Trekkie tries, making a joke about Star Wars.
Parallel universes does exists. *editing my post...


----------



## VivianaSings

Marsen said:


> Lol, I just screwed it up!
> 
> This happens, if a Trekkie tries, making a joke about Star Wars.
> Parallel universes does exists. *editing my post...


I still think "Jaja Bings" has a better feel to it.


----------



## RMH

It takes a few more weeks.I inquired about cs2 and got a reply.


----------



## constaneum

RMH said:


> It takes a few more weeks.I inquired about cs2 and got a reply.



so wont be this year then. probably stuck at NI there.


----------



## Leequalizer

VivianaSings said:


> I still think "Jaja Bings" has a better feel to it.





VivianaSings said:


> I still think "Jaja Bings" has a better feel to it.


But Alex is more like NeinNein Bings when it comes to releasing the library..


----------



## Eptesicus

RMH said:


> It takes a few more weeks.I inquired about cs2 and got a reply.


----------



## N.Caffrey

Got a good feeling about today


----------



## Bluemount Score

RMH said:


> It takes a few more weeks.I inquired about cs2 and got a reply.


I don't know whats serious or not in this thread anymore, so is it true?


----------



## RMH

Bluemount Score said:


> I don't know whats serious or not in this thread anymore, so is it true?


I'm sure they didn't lie...


----------



## ethormusic

RMH said:


> It takes a few more weeks.I inquired about cs2 and got a reply.


cs2??


----------



## Mr Sakitumi

Maybe @Alex W is waiting for this thread to hit 100 pages before dropping CSW


----------



## RMH

ethormusic said:


> cs2??


Cinematic Strings 2.
Legacy strings before CS Series.


----------



## ethormusic

RMH said:


> Cinematic Strings 2.
> Legacy strings before CS Series.


So you inquired about CS2 and Alex told you CSW is a few weeks away?


----------



## Toecutter

RMH said:


> It takes a few more weeks.I inquired about cs2 and got a reply.


Real information or just messing around? I was counting on CSW for this project


----------



## RMH

ethormusic said:


> So you inquired about CS2 and Alex told you CSW is a few weeks away?


Right!


----------



## I like music

RMH said:


> Right!


We like to shoot the messenger here, you know!


----------



## ethormusic

RMH said:


> Right!


You're original wording was unclear, which is why I asked for clarification. I hope you're trolling.


----------



## RMH

ethormusic said:


> You're original wording was unclear, which is why I asked for clarification. I hope you're trolling.


Calm down, everyone.
I apologize if the explanation was not enough.

That's right. I e-mailed a question about cs2 and was kind enough to give me an additional answer because they knew I was waiting for csw.


----------



## Fry777




----------



## cqd

goddammit..


----------



## JeffvR

Come one guys. We've been waiting for 2 years for this, we can wait an additional 2 weeks :D


----------



## cqd

I had been getting my hopes up.. I've an awful feeling my earlier prediction of it being released within a week of the new EWHO will be proven to be correct..


----------



## zolhof

RMH said:


> It takes a few more weeks.I inquired about cs2 and got a reply.


----------



## Benjamin Duk

JeffvR said:


> Come one guys. We've been waiting for 2 years for this, we can wait an additional 2 weeks :D



2 weeks feels longer than 2 years when you've been teased and are anticipating it


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Cmon. None of you people write for woodwinds anyway.


----------



## constaneum

it's alright. by then, we'll hit 100 pages and that's gonna mark "100%" release ! we're "92%" at the moment. keep posting. haha


----------



## FinGael

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Cmon. None of you people write for woodwinds anyway.



C'mon man.

Schweettt flautandos, overrated gelatos and woody winds are the new emotional, epic, game changer, paradigm shift, new black, new world order, quantum shift and so on.


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

FinGael said:


> C'mon man.
> 
> Schweettt flautandos, overrated gelatos and woody winds are the new emotional, epic, game changer, paradigm shift, new black, new world order, quantum shift and so on.


And don't forget: Alex recorded these woodwinds at the edge of silence.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

FinGael said:


> C'mon man.
> 
> Schweettt flautandos, overrated gelatos and woody winds are the new emotional, epic, game changer, paradigm shift, new black, new world order, quantum shift and so on.



I never understood why people use the term quantum shift, quantum leap etc. It's such a miniscule event which happens all the time and it makes it sound as if you were viewing something as an entirely insignificant, unremarkable and hardly notable development.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

When you hear CSW won't be out for another few weeks


----------



## Tremendouz

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Cmon. None of you people write for woodwinds anyway.


That's because we're waiting for a woodwind library worth writing for 😎


----------



## Beans

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I never understood why people use the term quantum shift, quantum leap etc. It's such a miniscule event which happens all the time and it makes it sound as if you were viewing something as an entirely insignificant, unremarkable and hardly notable development.



But quantum events and quantum-sized things aren't insignificant! They're quite remarkable and can have gigantic consequences despite the "small" or localized nature of them. Being able to understand or measure something at the quantum level (the new definition of a kilogram, for example) is groundbreaking.


----------



## Casiquire

Beans said:


> But quantum events and quantum-sized things aren't insignificant! They're quite remarkable and can have gigantic consequences despite the "small" or localized nature of them. Being able to understand or measure something at the quantum level (the new definition of a kilogram, for example) is groundbreaking.


Our knowledge of such things is significant, but I believe the events themselves really aren't. That's according to my professional opinion from my 4 entire minutes at Google University


----------



## Beans

Casiquire said:


> Our knowledge of such things is significant, but I believe the events themselves really aren't. That's according to my professional opinion from my 4 entire minutes at Google University



Pssh, I've got you beat. I'm subscribed to the /science subreddit and occasionally read a posted article.


----------



## Knomes

Beans said:


> But quantum events and quantum-sized things aren't insignificant! They're quite remarkable and can have gigantic consequences despite the "small" or localized nature of them. Being able to understand or measure something at the quantum level (the new definition of a kilogram, for example) is groundbreaking.



I would have never thought of reading about quantum mechanics in the CSW related thread. Ahahah


----------



## Paul Jelfs

The weird thing is Alex said he closely follows this thread, so would of thought he would of mentioned by now it had been delayed to the new year ? 

Maybe he just likes watching us suffer


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Knomes said:


> I would have never thought of reading about quantum mechanics in the CSW related thread. Ahahah



By the time the damn thing finally comes out, you'll probably have read about the best outdoor survivalist strategies, doing your beard the old fashioned way, the forgotten art of shoemaking, the differences between concrete used in european buildings vs. idonesian ones, and discussions about how the final season of Charmed ended.


----------



## Tremendouz

Knomes said:


> I would have never thought of reading about quantum mechanics in the CSW related thread. Ahahah


The things people do when bored...


----------



## ethormusic

Paul Jelfs said:


> The weird thing is Alex said he closely follows this thread, so would of thought he would of mentioned by now it had been delayed to the new year ?
> 
> Maybe he just likes watching us suffer


'A couple' weeks from today is still technically "before the end of the year" depending on where you live.
'A few' implies 3 weeks which would mean it's just after the new year. Hopefully it's the former that is _actually_ true.


I was really hoping to get CSW next week so that I could spend my winter break writing music with woodwinds that blend perfectly with CSS, CSSS, and CSB. The Cinematic Studio Series fits my writing style extremely well and I'm very happy with those three main libraries so far!

But alas, nobody wants CSW to be finished 100% and released to everybody more than Alex Wallbank.


----------



## dbudimir

Of course you know what Nico's assistant Bob would say.... Stop reading the CSW thread now and go start writing some great music! .......................Of course without great woodwinds


----------



## Virtuoso




----------



## Bluemount Score

Virtuoso said:


>


Ah yes, my favorit woodwind instrument. The kangaroo-dubstep flute!


----------



## stodesign12

So we have to wait a few more weeks? That's a bit sad tbh, it felt it was really close, but I hope it ends up being the most inspiring woodwind library ever!


----------



## jimjazzuk

Virtuoso said:


>


Didgeridon't


----------



## Marsen

hbjdk said:


> And don't forget: Alex recorded these woodwinds at the edge of silence.


And don't forget: Jar Jar Binks might have played them.


----------



## Toecutter

stodesign12 said:


> So we have to wait a few more weeks? That's a bit sad tbh, it felt it was really close, but I hope it ends up being the most inspiring woodwind library ever!


Every time someone complains Alex delays CSW by another week. According to my calculations, we are looking at a 2025 release (it will still come out before MSS)


----------



## RogiervG

*But it's going to be this year.. i won't believe it's not going to be... (still days to go... )
are we on the release page already? (page 100) *


----------



## mojamusic

Everybody... take a deep breath. It's gonna be alright.


----------



## dts_marin

Alex conspired with Orchestral Tools with a fancy key-jingling release to deflect us for a while from CSW.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Perhaps we should consult the 'book of secrets'... President Trump *will *spill the beans on the CSW controversy once he leaves office in late January (when he will be exempt from his BOS - NDA). I for one, cannot wait to hear the 'real story' about the CSW delays.

(on a related note - I call this gig when the documentary goes into production - just back off you other composers!!!! ....Cue the tight low harmonies in the low woods......)


----------



## mcalis

Well, and here I was getting my hopes up for a 2077 release of Cinematic Studio Choirs!


----------



## RogiervG

Rob Elliott said:


> ....... President Trump *will *spill the beans on the CSW ......


leave political monky business out of this thread


----------



## shponglefan

VI-Control right about now...


----------



## Bluemount Score

RogiervG said:


> leave political monky business out of this thread


If I see this correctly, this thread was even started by a monkey. Sorry, ape I mean.


----------



## I like music

shponglefan said:


> VI-Control right about now...


What the hell have I just missed? Is this real?


----------



## shponglefan

I like music said:


> What the hell have I just missed? Is this real?



Oh, it's very real: https://vi-control.net/community/th...c-strings—intro-offer-ends-jan-3-2021.103066/


----------



## I like music

shponglefan said:


> Oh, it's very real: https://vi-control.net/community/th...c-strings—intro-offer-ends-jan-3-2021.103066/


Jeez, nice! Honestly though, I am actually not going to listen to a single demo or even look at the product page. This way I never have to wonder about whether I should buy these or not!


----------



## RogiervG

the longer the release takes, the more i start to look into something else instead.. and buy csw later (eg. second half) in 2021 or 2022 (i want some christmas presents and such)


----------



## I like music

RogiervG said:


> the longer the release takes, the more i start to look into something else instead.. and buy csw later in 2021 or 2022 (i want some christmas presents and such)


LOL at you thinking it'll be released by 2022...


----------



## stodesign12

RogiervG said:


> the longer the release takes, the more i start to look into something else instead.. and buy csw later in 2021 or 2022 (i want some christmas presents and such)


Same here, there are other libraries and software I need, and christmas sales...


----------



## MA-Simon

shponglefan said:


> VI-Control right about now...


Lies!


----------



## ethormusic

shponglefan said:


> Oh, it's very real: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/orchestral-tools-berlin-symphonic-strings—intro-offer-ends-jan-3-2021.103066/


To be honest the sound of those strings doesn't impress me all that much. I can achieve more desirable results (for me personally) with CSS and CSSS.


----------



## Spices

shponglefan said:


> Well, we don't know that it won't. Keep clicking just to be sure.



I´ve been hitting that button since June 2018...


----------



## muziksculp

Did anyone email Alex.W. to find out why it's not released yet ?


----------



## I like music

muziksculp said:


> Did anyone email Alex.W. to find out why it's not released yet ?


Apparently you have to ask him about CS2 and then he gives you the update!


----------



## muziksculp

I just emailed them. 

Let's see what they say in their reply.


----------



## Jaap

MA-Simon said:


> Lies!


+1


----------



## filipjonathan

I like music said:


> Apparently you have to ask him about CS2 and then he gives you the update!


Is that like a secret code for CSW???


----------



## I like music

filipjonathan said:


> Is that like a secret code for CSW???



Hehe, exactly. Like a puzzle game cheat code.


----------



## ansthenia

For super secret insider discount code for CSW, you need to email Alex - "Hi, my download link for Solo Strings doesn't seem to be working"

When he replies with "Sorry about that, try again later" You need to reply "I've been waiting 15 years"

CSW for $10 fellas


----------



## Virtuoso




----------



## Peter Satera

Virtuoso said:


>



That is so disturbing.


----------



## Virtuoso

Peter Satera said:


> That is so disturbing.


This is what happens when you delay a release. Plenty more Australian cultural icons to feature...


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

It's like poetry- it rhymes.


----------



## GingerMaestro

CINEMATIC STUDIO VOICES


----------



## Eptesicus

GingerMaestro said:


> CINEMATIC STUDIO VOICES



Russel Crowe's singing performance in Les Mis was utterly atrocious. He sounded like a bunged-up bear.


----------



## Virtuoso




----------



## VivianaSings

Virtuoso said:


>


----------



## Kony

@Virtuoso any reason why you're posting pics of a convicted pedophile (Harris)?


----------



## Virtuoso

Kony said:


> @Virtuoso any reason why you're posting pics of a convicted pedophile (Harris)?


I just Googled 'Australian Cultural Icons'. Not much came up, but there were lots of pictures of that Harris guy with the Queen and Prince Charles.


----------



## Michael Stibor

NathanTiemeyer said:


> It's like poetry- it rhymes.


I know it’s just a joke, but BSS sounds like it showed up about 8 years to late to the party. At least Vista has something unique about it (even if it is a one trick I pony). I’ll wait the two weeks more for CSW.


----------



## muziksculp

Michael Stibor said:


> I’ll wait the two weeks more for CSW.



hehe.. and what makes you think it is only a two weeks wait ?


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Virtuoso said:


> I just Googled 'Australian Cultural Icons'. Not much came up, but there were lots of pictures of that Harris guy with the Queen and Prince Charles.


Australia? Culture?

Crikey


----------



## JeffvR

So, with the Berlin Symphonic Strings introduced I have the option to complete the Teldex family, as I already have BWW and BB. Or wait for CSW to complete the Cinematic Studio family...


----------



## jimjazzuk

Cultural Ambassador Les wants a word with you about getting wood(s)


----------



## Michael Stibor

muziksculp said:


> hehe.. and what makes you think it is only a two weeks wait ?


That’s been my time line for the last two years.


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> I just emailed them.
> 
> Let's see what they say in their reply.


News?


----------



## MA-Simon

Guys. Mike already mentioned that *"Sunset Strings"* is beeing delayed to mid january, because Native Instruments is likely understaffed and can not handle the amount of new products at this time.

The same applies for Cinematic Studio Woodwinds. It is going to be a player library, it needs to be encoded by NI. So my guess is, it also applies for this. Moving to january.


----------



## Drundfunk

zolhof said:


>


Alex be like


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Drundfunk said:


> Alex be like


This thread just has the best memes!


----------



## muziksculp

Toecutter said:


> News?



Nope. No reply at all.


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> Nope. No reply at all.



Be patient. It's still fairly early in the morning over in Australia right now. He'll probably get back to you as soon as he can (probably when it's mid-day over there).


----------



## Leequalizer

How have some guys in here survived this Thread for more than 2 years, when they can't wait more than a few hours for an answer? Big yikes. Stay calm and don't read this thread. Don't.


----------



## muziksculp

Well.. If it will be out in 2020, there are only 12 days left.


----------



## ricoderks

Maybe Alex works for NASA in secret too


----------



## RogiervG

Alex, please let us have a very nice holiday present. You can do it, i know the library is done, and all.. don't be afraid.. the longer you wait the higher the hype.. just release it.. take a deep breath.. close your eyes.. breath out... and press that button to release the library..
3
2
1
go!

Aaaand we have a launc... wait.. Alex? hello? where did you go? Alex?


----------



## muziksculp

So how many days does the usual reply take from CS/ Alex W. ?


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> So how many days does the usual reply take from CS/ Alex W. ?


6:43am in Australia right now as of this reply.


----------



## prodigalson

Probably longer than usual considering how often he's being emailed about it. 

Just let them finish it, for god's sake.


----------



## lettucehat

Honestly, anyone emailing about it at this point should be blacklisted from owning the product.


----------



## muziksculp

prodigalson said:


> Probably longer than usual considering how often he's being emailed about it.
> 
> Just let them finish it, for god's sake.



Yes, I can imagine the number of emails they are getting regarding CSW and its release status. 

Well they can ignore all the emails until they release it, and then reply. 

But... Why aren't they releasing it ??? The library is still not done ??? That can't be the issue, something else is holding them back from releasing it, either something related to Kontakt, or They just want to see this thread burst before they release it


----------



## pawelmorytko




----------



## ZeeCount




----------



## JEPA

Still page 96?


----------



## CT

I'll see you again in 25 years. Meanwhile....


----------



## pawelmorytko

Not gonna lie, Vista nearly had me, and I might still get it (as well as CSW) if the reviews/walkthroughs convince me, but I really have no interested in BSS, don't think I'm a fan of the tone or the legato.

Or maybe I just want some woodwinds in my template already


----------



## Eptesicus

pawelmorytko said:


> Not gonna lie, Vista nearly had me, and I might still get it (as well as CSW) if the reviews/walkthroughs convince me, but I really have no interested in BSS, don't think I'm a fan of the tone or the legato.
> 
> Or maybe I just want some woodwinds in my template already



Same. BSS does nothing from me. Just sounds like Synchron Strings round 2.

Not sure what is with these big experienced companies managing to flub sampling strings all of a sudden, after having decent prior releases.


----------



## CT

Is it really a flub if some people don't like what they're hearing, but others do?


----------



## pawelmorytko

I know as soon as I get my hands on CSW I will be trying to play this with the instruments



Such a great use of woodwinds. Not often do you hear a battle track for a game made with almost purely woodwinds.


----------



## ansthenia

JEPA said:


> Still page 96?



I remember when this thread was still just on page 1...


----------



## muziksculp

pawelmorytko said:


> I know as soon as I get my hands on CSW I will be trying to play this with the instruments
> 
> 
> 
> Such a great use of woodwinds. Not often do you hear a battle track for a game made with almost purely woodwinds.




One of my favorite Soundtracks lately.

But.. CSW is no where in sight, and we don't have a clue when it will be.


----------



## Symfoniq

Eptesicus said:


> Not sure what is with these big experienced companies managing to flub sampling strings all of a sudden, after having decent prior releases.



I’m beginning to wonder if there is a relationship between large section sizes and these kinds of results (synthy and sterile to my ears). For whatever reason, relatively small sections can sound quite large when sampled. Large sections just sound...weird, fake, characterless. Nothing like the concert hall.


----------



## CT

Symfoniq said:


> I’m beginning to wonder if there is a relationship between large section sizes and these kinds of results (synthy and sterile to my ears). For whatever reason, relatively small sections can sound quite large when sampled. Large sections just sound...weird, fake, characterless. Nothing like the concert hall.



Well, it definitely plays a role. Inevitable buildup of voices will create the (usually unwelcome) illusion of larger sections. Also, I doubt many people are used to hearing some of these novelty-sized groups in a real situation anyway (even recordings), which no doubt contributes to it seeming like a hyped and fake sound.


----------



## prodigalson

Mike T said:


> Is it really a flub if some people don't like what they're hearing, but others do?



this is the internet. A few people declared it a miss from listening to some demos, therefore, it’s a flub.


----------



## Living Fossil

AudioLoco said:


> Woodwinds are overrated: go!



The issue with Woodwinds is not that they are overrated.
The problem is that their name is deceptive, fake and wrong.

An honest name wood be: _Metalwinds that may contain small particles of wood_.
(actually, there are several "woodwinds" made of wood, but i prefer to ignore them. They are ugly.
The only woodwinds that are worth of mentioning are flutes and saxophones. The rest is useless)

But in all fairness: it's not the only orchestral section with an euphemistic name;
it's also absurd that the section of _"saliva tanks"_ is called "brass".

However, both instrument families produce at least nice timbres.

Which cannot be said of the percussion family.
Those "instruments" create plain noise – specially drums.
I think they could be used in aggression therapies.
But i don't see their place in a civilized orchestra.
Ask a percussionist who plays the Gran Cassa to play a _very simple tune; _like e.g. Old McDonald had a farm. Will he be able to play it?
No.
What he plays will sound like: Buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff.
That's not music. That's garbage.


----------



## Kony

Virtuoso said:


> I just Googled 'Australian Cultural Icons'. Not much came up, but there were lots of pictures of that Harris guy with the Queen and Prince Charles.



That's odd, I Googled "Australian Cultural Icons" and got the following pic - which is ironic as I'd heard there might be a CSW bagpipes expansion in the near future.


----------



## purple

pawelmorytko said:


> I know as soon as I get my hands on CSW I will be trying to play this with the instruments
> 
> 
> 
> Such a great use of woodwinds. Not often do you hear a battle track for a game made with almost purely woodwinds.



Hey, that's the mobile game that I will never download but makes up half of my youtube ads! (the other half of my youtube ads is AFK arena of course, which I will also never play)


----------



## Leequalizer

This thread is sponsored by Raid shadow woodwinds.


----------



## AudioLoco

Living Fossil said:


> The issue with Woodwinds is not that they are overrated.
> The problem is that their name is deceptive, fake and wrong.
> 
> An honest name wood be: _Metalwinds that may contain small particles of wood_.
> (actually, there are several "woodwinds" made of wood, but i prefer to ignore them. They are ugly.
> The only woodwinds that are worth of mentioning are flutes and saxophones. The rest is useless)
> 
> But in all fairness: it's not the only orchestral section with an euphemistic name;
> it's also absurd that the section of _"saliva tanks"_ is called "brass".
> 
> However, both instrument families produce at least nice timbres.
> 
> Which cannot be said of the percussion family.
> Those "instruments" create plain noise – specially drums.
> I think they could be used in aggression therapies.
> But i don't see their place in a civilized orchestra.
> Ask a percussionist who plays the Gran Cassa to play a _very simple tune; _like e.g. Old McDonald had a farm. Will he be able to play it?
> No.
> What he plays will sound like: Buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, buff.
> That's not music. That's garbage.


Long live metalwinds that may contain small particles of wood!


----------



## Gmetcalfe

pawelmorytko said:


> I know as soon as I get my hands on CSW I will be trying to play this with the instruments
> 
> 
> 
> Such a great use of woodwinds. Not often do you hear a battle track for a game made with almost purely woodwinds.



That’s a beautiful soundtrack! I haven’t heard it before, thanks for posting.


----------



## muziksculp

Every morning, I wake up hoping to see this thread buzzzing with posts about how great CSW sounds, and how much users are enjoying playing these woodwind instruments, Just to find out nothing has changed CSW is still Vaporware ...


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> Every morning, I wake up hoping to see this thread buzzzing with posts about how great CSW sounds, and how much users are enjoying playing these woodwind instruments, Just to find out nothing has changed CSW is still Vaporware ...


I still have faith in AW and his team that it will be released before the end of the year. It may be a 'photo finish' though.


----------



## muziksculp

ethormusic said:


> I still have faith in AW and his team that it will be released before the end of the year. It may be a 'photo finish' though.



What do you think is holding AW back from releasing it ? What is he waiting for ?


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> What do you think is holding AW back from releasing it ? What is he waiting for ?


I know very little about developing a sampled library, but it doesn't seem like it's finished yet.


----------



## muziksculp

ethormusic said:


> I know very little about developing a sampled library, but it doesn't seem like it's finished yet.



Well.. if it not finished yet, I would not expect it to be released this year.


----------



## Dima Lanski

muziksculp said:


> What do you think is holding AW back from releasing it ? What is he waiting for ?


Obviously, he's waiting for this thread to get to a 100 pages.


----------



## shponglefan

Dima Lanski said:


> Obviously, he's waiting for this thread to get to a 100 pages.



Quick people, more posts! We can do it!


----------



## muziksculp

shponglefan said:


> Quick people, more posts! We can do it!



Here you go.  ... Next Please !


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> Well.. if it not finished yet, I would not expect it to be released this year.


We'll see. It's not "delayed" until we wake up on December 31st in our respective time zones and _still _don't receive an email from AW with CSW's release announcement along with a loyalty discount code.


----------



## Beans

muziksculp said:


> What do you think is holding AW back from releasing it ? What is he waiting for ?



There's also a rumor that things are behind on the Native Instruments side for multiple releases.


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> What do you think is holding AW back from releasing it ? What is he waiting for ?


They longer AW holds back the release = the more memes in this thread for him to enjoy


----------



## muziksculp

Beans said:


> There's also a rumor that things are behind on the Native Instruments side for multiple releases.



The only thing NI can hold back is Kontakt. So, if AW is waiting for the next Kontakt version, we are stuck, and even if the next Kontakt update is released, AW will have to spend a good chunck of time re-testing that everything works as it should using the new Kotakt version. 

Hence, I doubt it will be released this year, if this is the scenario. 

I'm checking the status of NI-Kontakt 6 on their forum everyday, to see if there is a new version.


----------



## erikradbo

muziksculp said:


> Well.. if it not finished yet, I would not expect it to be released this year.



Let's assume they release it when it's possible, then it's - for whatever reason - by definition not ready for release yet, and then it will be one day. How we would know if that date is before or after new year is beyond me.


----------



## Fry777

muziksculp said:


> The only thing NI can hold back is Kontakt. So, if AW is waiting for the next Kontakt version



He might just be waiting for the file encryption and release from NI actually


----------



## muziksculp

erikradbo said:


> Let's assume they release it when it's possible, then it's - for whatever reason - by definition not ready for release yet, and then it will be one day. How we would know if that date is before or after new year is beyond me.



In the scenario AW is waiting for a Kontakt 6 update, there are 11 days left in 2020., not much time, given there is no K6 update version yet, and who knows when it will be released by NI. That surely doesn't make me optimistic it will be released this year. Unless it is something else.


----------



## muziksculp

Fry777 said:


> He might just be waiting for the file encryption and release from NI actually



That shouldn't take that long. I doubt that's what's holding it back.


----------



## erikradbo

muziksculp said:


> In the scenario AW is waiting for a Kontakt 6 update, there are 11 days left in 2020., not much time, given there is no K6 update version yet, and who knows when it will be released by NI. That surely doesn't make me optimistic it will be released this year. Unless it is something else.



Yea agreed, there a lots of scenarios where it won't be released in quite some time, and then just as many where it will (really, infinite number of scenarios on both sides). Do we know anything that makes one or the other more likely?


----------



## I like music

Wondering if the legato will be more agile than the release 😂


----------



## Michael Stibor

Kony said:


> That's odd, I Googled "Australian Cultural Icons" and got the following pic - which is ironic as I'd heard there might be a CSW bagpipes expansion in the near future.


When I think of Australian icons:






Are there others?


----------



## Fry777

muziksculp said:


> That shouldn't take that long. I doubt that's what's holding it back.



But he might be waiting for this topic to reach page 100 to send the files...


----------



## muziksculp

Fry777 said:


> But he might be waiting for this topic to reach page 100 to send the files...



Three more pages to go !


----------



## ysnyvz

Fry777 said:


> But he might be waiting for this topic to reach page 100 to send the files...


Meanwhile at Cinematic Studio HQ:


----------



## MartinH.

muziksculp said:


> That shouldn't take that long. I doubt that's what's holding it back.



It has already been confirmed, that _exactly this_ is what's holding another library back from release as a Kontakt player library. Iirc it was Mike's Sunset Strings library, you might find more info in that thread.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Me until December 31, 2020


----------



## filipjonathan

Is it out yet?


----------



## filipjonathan

Now?


----------



## filipjonathan

How about now?


----------



## Batrawi

Maybe it means anything but "soon"


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Somebody made the joke before in this thread, so I'll bravely step up and make it again:

*The Woodwinds of Winter*


----------



## Bluemount Score

Batrawi said:


> Maybe it means anything but "soon"


I'm seeing this side by side to the real banner right now and it makes it even better


----------



## ethormusic

MartinH. said:


> It has already been confirmed, that _exactly this_ is what's holding another library back from release as a Kontakt player library. Iirc it was Mike's Sunset Strings library, you might find more info in that thread.


I did some digging, and apparently Mike is releasing a "pre-release" version until NI can finish encoding his library, which won't be done until January. So for the time being Sunset Strings requires the full version of Kontakt.

I have no idea where CSW is at in terms of this process, but hopefully its well ahead of Sunset Strings in the NI encoding prcoess cue.


----------



## Tremendouz

Tinesaeriel said:


> Somebody made the joke before in this thread, so I'll bravely step up and make it again:
> 
> *The Woodwinds of Winter*


Don't play with my feelings like that, I wasn't even in high school when the previous book released D:


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Tremendouz said:


> Don't play with my feelings like that, I wasn't even in high school when the previous book released D:



Hey, don't blame me! Blame the first guy who made this joke way back when in this thread. XD


----------



## cqd

Hopefully they'll end up better than game of thrones did anyway..


----------



## MGdepp




----------



## JEPA

*BEWARE OF:*


----------



## cqd

I apologise...that was crass..


----------



## muziksculp

MartinH. said:


> It has already been confirmed, that _exactly this_ is what's holding another library back from release as a Kontakt player library. Iirc it was Mike's Sunset Strings library, you might find more info in that thread.



Wasn't Sunset Strings Released just recently ?


----------



## ricoderks

muziksculp said:


> Wasn't Sunset Strings Released just recently ?


Pre released. Official native release is in januari


----------



## MartinH.

muziksculp said:


> Wasn't Sunset Strings Released just recently ?



Not the Kontak Player version that needs to be encoded by NI, only the version for Kontakt Full that a developer can just make themselves and give you. If NI can't keep up with whatever work they have to do for the encoding process, then all releases of Kontakt Player libraries will get delayed inevitably.


----------



## Trash Panda

Living Fossil said:


> An honest name wood be: _Metalwinds that may contain small particles of wood_.


And thus Metallicawinds was born into the universe, making the inevitable all Woodwinds cover of Enter Sandman entirely @Living Fossil’s fault.


----------



## Casiquire

Are we really talking about Australian cultural icons and not bringing up @Cory Pelizzari ?!


----------



## Kony

Casiquire said:


> Are we really talking about Australian cultural icons and not bringing up @Cory Pelizzari ?!


Or Blakus?


----------



## Casiquire

Kony said:


> Or Blakus?


Yesss!


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

You guys are all way off base.

May I present to you, an historic Australian Icon:












For the uninitiated


----------



## pawelmorytko

Since people seemed to enjoy the woodwinds track I posted from Genshin Impact, here's another favourite of mine. Again, really cool woodwinds textures created with those rhythms. 1:40 - 2:10 always gets me, really beautiful. Yu-Peng Chen has done phenomenal work on this soundtrack and it makes me ever more so excited for CSW.


----------



## Tom Ferguson

pawelmorytko said:


> Since people seemed to enjoy the woodwinds track I posted from Genshin Impact, here's another favourite of mine. Again, really cool woodwinds textures created with those rhythms. 1:40 - 2:10 always gets me, really beautiful. Yu-Peng Chen has done phenomenal work on this soundtrack and it makes me ever more so excited for CSW.



Cheers for the recommendations. Love me some minimalism influences in my music and this sounds like a great soundtrack from what you've posted! 

And I agree, CSW sounds (from the demos) that it will be perfect for this kind of thing. Can't wait!


----------



## davidhewitson

Sorry if this has already been posted - I really love the woodwinds in this video (great explanation from Mattia too)


----------



## Tremendouz

Page 99 😰


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Tremendouz said:


> Page 99 😰


Let's see who gets the first post on page 100


----------



## MrCambiata

I have a feeling that tomorrow is the day


----------



## cqd

MrCambiata said:


> I have a feeling that tomorrow is the day


I had a feeling last Monday was the day..


----------



## ysnyvz

hbjdk said:


> Let's see who gets the first post on page 100


Post #1981 is coming soon.


----------



## Bluemount Score

cqd said:


> I had a feeling last Monday was the day..


I had a feeling Wednesday, the 23th of July was the day (2019)


----------



## rottoy

MrCambiata said:


> I have a feeling that tomorrow is the day


----------



## dbudimir

Merry Woodwinds week!!!!! Ohhhhh not yet!


----------



## Trash Panda

Y’all gave up on page 99? This is why it hasn’t released yet. You’re not dedicated enough to the cause.


----------



## stodesign12

Tomorrow!!






...is Monday again


----------



## DarkShinryu

Tomorrow is the day we will be disappointed again!


----------



## Thysmusic.com

Steve Irwin is the gateway drug. And before you know it you're mainlining Chopper Riley. 

#ozzieicons


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Welcome to page 100.

Edit:
Argh, not yet


----------



## Bluemount Score

99


----------



## Bluemount Score

100


----------



## Michael Stibor

Trash Panda said:


> Y’all gave up on page 99? This is why it hasn’t released yet. You’re not dedicated enough to the cause.


If it would change something, I’d happily post all day long.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Bluemount Score said:


> 100


Not yet!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Michael Stibor said:


> Not yet!


100 for me! Perhaps reload the page


----------



## Michael Stibor

Geez, is it me or is page 99 extra long?


----------



## Tremendouz

Page 100 and no CSW? Who woulda thought?!?


----------



## Michael Stibor

Bluemount Score said:


> 100 for me! Perhaps reload the page


Ah! So I assume we can go to the CSW download page now?


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

When the CSW thread finally reaches page 100


----------



## Jaap




----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Oh guys, I’m laughing so hard here!


----------



## Tremendouz

And the "Coming soon" ad is still teasing me in the bottom of the page


----------



## Mr Sakitumi

⚡️💯⚡️


----------



## stodesign12

And here we... go


----------



## ChristianM

they forgot the flutes, they have to redo the recordings


----------



## Markastellor

OK now that we're up to page 100 he has to release it. That's a legal requirement in the United States. I think Australia has the same regulation.


----------



## shponglefan

Markastellor said:


> OK now that we're up to page 100 he has to release it. That's a legal requirement in the United States. I think Australia has the same regulation.



Commonwealth countries use the metric system. They're only at page 60.


----------



## Markastellor

shponglefan said:


> Commonwealth countries use the metric system. They're only at page 60.


OK That explains it! Another 40 pages to go.


----------



## muziksculp

Oh.. no, another CSWLess Morning.


----------



## Peter Satera

Looking forward to it Alex!



Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thanks to everyone for your support. Release is soon! We've agreed after such a build up in anticipation, we'll release upon hitting 200 pages!
> 
> -Alex



/......


----------



## RogiervG

Peter Satera said:


> Looking forward to it Alex!
> 
> 
> 
> /......



your computer is broke.. the number is wrong.. here let me quote his correctly:



Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> The library will be out just before Chrismas or if this thread reaches page 120. Whichever comes first.
> Thanks to everyone for your support, patience, and most importantly, the memes.
> 
> -Alex


----------



## Drundfunk

When Alex still didn't release CSW although we reached page 100




(Disclaimer: Before there are any comments from people who don't know much about memes, this is NOT meant as a threat! It's how this meme works and it's still meant as a joke).


----------



## Casiquire

Bluemount Score said:


> 100


Be honest. How long did you sit around refreshing staring at the screen waiting for the moment?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Casiquire said:


> Be honest. How long did you sit around refreshing staring at the screen waiting for the moment?


Honestly, not at all! I just randomly saw post 1979 and thought alright, let's do this!


----------



## cqd

*Kicks over table in frustration*


----------



## pawelmorytko

Today's the day!


----------



## Paul Jelfs

I think at this point, it is going to be next year realistically :( 

I hope I am wrong, and maybe there is a chance , seems as Alex has not posted anything official. 

But with Modern Scoring Strings, coming out next year, Vista taking a lot longer than people had thought, I really think there is a back log at Native Instruments etc . 

I do think we are torturing ourselves keeping this thread going!


----------



## JeffvR

Paul Jelfs said:


> I think at this point, it is going to be next year realistically :(
> 
> I hope I am wrong, and maybe there is a chance , seems as Alex has not posted anything official.
> 
> But with Modern Scoring Strings, coming out next year, Vista taking a lot longer than people had thought, I really think there is a back log at Native Instruments etc .
> 
> I do think we are torturing ourselves keeping this thread going!


I think so too!


----------



## gpax

I think we need a new category of thread called “Vigils.”

Then, when the imminent product is actually released, members don’t have to mine backwards from page 100 to read through first impressions or to find information about early release issues.

It gets its own label “New Release.” Or, maybe if we just put those words in parentheses in the thread titles, it would help, lol.

Think about it: speculation, hype and anticipation all seem to spiral and throttle forward, actually ramping up; a new release starts with a burst of energy that then ramps down. Yet, if you click on a thread simply named for that product, you are dropped somewhere towards the later posts and then have to figure out which way to go.

Only I clicked on the last post today, only to realize candles and incense were still being lit in hopes of coaxing Alex to miraculously appear, like Father Christmas, with woodwinds for all.


----------



## prodigalson

Paul Jelfs said:


> But with Modern Scoring Strings, coming out next year, Vista taking a lot longer than people had thought, I really think there is a back log at Native Instruments etc .



Just as a point of information though, Vista was not due to NI as it is not a kontakt player library so didn't need to be encoded by them. I think the suggestion is because MSS and CSW need to be encoded, a potential backlog at NI might be delaying them


----------



## Casiquire

gpax said:


> I think we need a new category of thread called “Vigils.”
> 
> Then, when the imminent product is actually released, members don’t have to mine backwards from page 100 to read through first impressions or to find information about early release issues.
> 
> It gets its own label “New Release.” Or, maybe if we just put those words in parentheses in the thread titles, it would help, lol.
> 
> Think about it: speculation, hype and anticipation all seem to spiral and throttle forward, actually ramping up; a new release starts with a burst of energy that then ramps down. Yet, if you click on a thread simply named for that product, you are dropped somewhere towards the later posts and then have to figure out which way to go.
> 
> Only I clicked on the last post today, only to realize candles and incense were still being lit in hopes of coaxing Alex to miraculously appear, like Father Christmas, with woodwinds for all.


A new thread will certainly be made when it drops


----------



## RogiervG

Casiquire said:


> A new thread will certainly be made when it drops


any day now... any day...


----------



## Grizzlymv

Guys...it isn't Christmas yet. We can't really unwrap our gift before that day as Santa may not be happy about it.  so I wouldn't expect anything before after Christmas.


----------



## muziksculp

Another CSWLess morning  

10 Days left for 2020.


----------



## Leequalizer

Warning: If this thread extends 2020 posts, the library will release in the year equal to the #number of posts in this thread. One post one year. How do i know? Basic maths. So stop at 2020 and we are fine


----------



## ysnyvz

muziksculp said:


> Another CSWLess morning
> 
> 10 Days left for 2020.


So 2020 is an endless loop now?


----------



## Tremendouz

Release date: 22.13.2020


----------



## ricoderks

C = 3
S = 19
W = 23
_________+
2021


Damnit


----------



## pawelmorytko

It's coming out in 2020 NG+ guys


----------



## dts_marin

This legato is so advanced it has a delay of 6.307e+10 ms.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Post 2020! This is it! Isn't it?


----------



## RogiervG

i asked Alex for a copy.. and got it, and it's very good...


then i woke up.. and realised i had a dream, for the very near future


----------



## Rob Elliott

RogiervG said:


> i asked Alex for a copy.. and got it, and it's very good...
> 
> 
> then i woke up.. and realised i had a dream, for the very near future


...it's ok I guess....


----------



## Henrik B. Jensen

Tomorrow peeps


----------



## muziksculp

Another CSWLess morning 

No news, no CSW, no reply from Alex, .... Sad.


----------



## Everratic

The url https://cinematicstudioseries.com/woodwinds now displays the home page instead of "page not found" :o


----------



## Casiquire

Oops guess it'll be 2026 now, sorry everyone!


----------



## muziksculp

Honestly, an update from Alex W. on this forum would be a nice gesture. We deserve some feedback on what's happening.


----------



## lucor

Everratic said:


> The url https://cinematicstudioseries.com/woodwinds now displays the home page instead of "page not found" :o


It's also adding "?cue_playlist=woodwinds" to the url...


----------



## pawelmorytko

muziksculp said:


> Honestly, an update from Alex W. on this forum would be a nice gesture. We deserve some feedback on what's happening.


Let’s not pressure the devs and give them unnecessary stress of having to reassure the customers every step of the way. It’ll be ready when it’s ready, whether that’s this year or next year. Alex already gave us a huge update on how it’s going, with a whole instrument patch list and demos, which he really didn’t have to do.


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

Of course, we do not need his absolutely magnificent demonstrations to prove that the library will be amazing. But still, deep down, we would love them, and I think Alex is currently composing some great music and making a Technical Walkthrough video . This is exactly what OT didn't bother to do before releasing their new string library. I wish Alex a lot of inspiration, he is not only a great developer, but first of all a talented composer!


----------



## Tremendouz

As much as I want to have CSW, I can't understand harassing Alex about this after receiving the full instrument list, 2 demos and a confirmation that it's on the final stages of development.

It's coming when it's coming


----------



## Toecutter




----------



## Saxer

Tremendouz said:


> It's coming when it's coming


Like in real life...


----------



## muziksculp

Sorry, I don't think it is a big deal for A.W. to just give us another status update of CSW.

No need to be specific, just that all is moving forward, and it will be out this year, or next year. Any kind of communication is nice at this point.


----------



## pawelmorytko

muziksculp said:


> Sorry, I don't think it is a big deal for A.W. to just give us another status update of CSW.
> 
> No need to be specific, just that all is moving forward, and it will be out this year, or next year. Any kind of communication is nice at this point.


I totally get you, but I feel like at this point we all know it’s coming either in December or January. Being any more specific than that would have to be actually just giving us a release date. And no point telling us a rough date now if it might change and be delayed, leading to more agitated and frustrated customers, leading to a rushed product...(looking at you Cyberpunk)

What I’m trying to say is, is that it’s easy to give an update on when its coming, but harder to actually keep that promise


----------



## muziksculp

It could also be June 2021


----------



## mcalis

muziksculp said:


> Sorry, I don't think it is a big deal for A.W. to just give us another status update of CSW.
> 
> No need to be specific, just that all is moving forward, and it will be out this year, or next year.


Maybe so, but I'd wager that the next thing we'll hear from him will be the release. Nothing in Alex's history of making sample libraries indicates that he's keen on making forum posts about his products, in fact the exact opposite is true. Super responsive the few times I had to email support, but otherwise just not much of a forumgoer or poster. I just don't think that will change all of a sudden and I imagine he's more comfortable working how he works and refraining from interaction unless he has something to announce.


----------



## Michael Stibor

I keep thinking of the main chorus lyric to this song every time I think of CSW. Ironically, also Australian


----------



## muziksculp

mcalis said:


> Maybe so, but I'd wager that the next thing we'll hear from him will be the release. Nothing in Alex's history of making sample libraries indicates that he's keen on making forum posts about his products, in fact the exact opposite is true. Super responsive the few times I had to email support, but otherwise just not much of a forumgoer or poster. I just don't think that will change all of a sudden and I imagine he's more comfortable working how he works and refraining from interaction unless he has something to announce.



OK, then ... I guess we have to live with A.W's MA. and just wait for it to show up, hopefully before 2021.


----------



## shponglefan

muziksculp said:


> Sorry, I don't think it is a big deal for A.W. to just give us another status update of CSW.
> 
> No need to be specific, just that all is moving forward, and it will be out this year, or next year. Any kind of communication is nice at this point.



The challenge with updates is that it creates expectations. And expectations can rapidly turn into disappointment if those expectations aren't met.

Look at what already happened when he mentioned they are trying to get it out before the end of the year. That immediately translates into people expecting it before the end of the year and invariably they'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen.


----------



## muziksculp

shponglefan said:


> The challenge with updates is that it creates expectations. And expectations can rapidly turn into disappointment if those expectations aren't met.



I understand, but here is the deal. If CSW as a library project is completed, then the only thing I can think of that's holding it back is NI, and NI is taking their time to complete whatever they need to do to approve it for release, So technically, we are stuck because of NI, not A.W. 

I think if it was something related to the actual library that was not completed, i.e. AW was responsible for it, maybe a major delay because they found a sample editing issue ,or ..etc. , then some feedback/update from AW. would be a nice gesture.


----------



## Toecutter

I'm curious, what difference it makes if CSW gets released tomorrow, in a week or in a month? Are you depending on a specific thing that CSW does that no other ww library does to get a job finished or something? That's the only scenario I'd understand this level of despair and anxiety XD

Damn you Alex, I won't get my Oscar because I don't have CSW!!!!!!!!


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> I understand, but here is the deal. If CSW as a library project is completed, then the only thing I can think of that's holding it back is NI, and NI is taking their time to complete whatever they need to do to approve it for release, So technically, we are stuck because of NI, not A.W.
> 
> I think if it was something related to the actual library that was not completed, i.e. AW was responsible for it, maybe a major delay because they found a sample editing issue ,or ..etc. , then some feedback/update from AW. would be a nice gesture.



If it's just NI going through the encoding process, I doubt AW would have info on when that will be finished, since that is beyond his control. I would say his "Cinematic Studio Woodwinds Coming Soon" ad on this site is a _good_ sign. Nothing more, nothing less. It hasn't even been a full month since it started appearing. 

AW doesn't owe us anything. Given all the sh*t he has had to deal with over the past year in Australia (between the bush fires and then COVID19), we're incredibly lucky CSW is so close to release with his small team.

Yes, it sucks that CSW is not out yet. I'm disappointed and a little frustrated too, but there's been a global pandemic going on. It's become all too easy to fixate on one single library that is highly anticipated because most of us are stuck inside somewhere all day waiting for a single piece of potential happiness. While I am plenty guilty of doing this myself, it's important for us to remind ourselves that these are only tools to help us get compositional ideas across better. If you have other woodwind libraries, use them for a little bit longer, learn to program them even better than you already have, and you may find that CSW will be a 'nice to have' library rather than a 'I DESPERATELY NEED THIS' type of library. And who knows, it may come out sooner than we all expect.


----------



## dts_marin

muziksculp said:


> I understand, but here is the deal. If CSW as a library project is completed, then the only thing I can think of that's holding it back is NI, and NI is taking their time to complete whatever they need to do to approve it for release, So technically, we are stuck because of NI, not A.W.
> 
> I think if it was something related to the actual library that was not completed, i.e. AW was responsible for it, maybe a major delay because they found a sample editing issue ,or ..etc. , then some feedback/update from AW. would be a nice gesture.



Imagine if Alex did the encoding of all libraries for Native Instruments.
 No offence to Alex, he is awesome. Some things require a lot of time to get done properly. But the memes are funny as well so no complaints. What's the fun with a half-baked product that doesn't even inspire some memes?


----------



## prodigalson

ethormusic said:


> you may find that CSW will be a 'nice to have' library rather than a 'I DESPERATELY NEED THIS' type of library. And who knows, it may come out sooner than we all expect.



The reality is there’s no such thing as an “I DESPERATELY NEED THIS” library unless its something very niche for a very specific project. 

If one cares this much about an effing woodwind sample library, the chances are one already has at least 1 if not 8 woodwind sample libraries.


----------



## ethormusic

prodigalson said:


> The reality is there’s no such thing as an “I DESPERATELY NEED THIS” library unless its something very niche for a very specific project.
> 
> If one cares this much about an effing woodwind sample library, the chances are one already has at least 1 if not 8 woodwind sample libraries.


I was referring to “I DESPERATELY NEED THIS” as more of an attitude than an _actual_ reality.


----------



## Robert_G

Just a thought. The first demos of CSB were exactly 23 days before the release. Someone do the math.


----------



## quickbrownf0x

So ehrm...., what's up with CSW, any word? 😂


----------



## Jdiggity1

Robert_G said:


> Just a thought. The first demos of CSB were exactly 23 days before the release. Someone do the math.


Yep, 23 does in fact equal 23.


----------



## purple

prodigalson said:


> The reality is there’s no such thing as an “I DESPERATELY NEED THIS” library



There isn't one yet, but there will be when this releases!


----------



## Robert_G

This might come across as a bit selfish....but I think we are all guilty a little bit with CSW. 
I hope the CSW is in the hands of NI, because they are predicting a nasty wildfire season again this year in Australia, and fire season is only a few weeks away. If it goes down like last year and Alex gets put on hold, we could be looking at summer....


----------



## ethormusic

Robert_G said:


> This might come across as a bit selfish....but I think we are all guilty a little bit with CSW.
> I hope the CSW is in the hands of NI, because they are predicting a nasty wildfire season again this year in Australia, and fire season is only a few weeks away. If it goes down like last year and Alex gets put on hold, we could be looking at summer....


Yeesh. CSPerc probably won't come out then until 2021 at the _earliest. _I think with so many percussion libraries out there it is not going sell as well as CSW because it'll likely be less of a priority...unless of course Alex has found a way to allow us to program bass drum with the really smooth and realistic legato.


----------



## Robert_G

ethormusic said:


> Yeesh. CSPerc probably won't come out then until 2021 at the _earliest. _I think with so many percussion libraries out there it is not going sell as well as CSW because it'll likely be less of a priority...unless of course Alex has found a way to allow us to program bass drum with the really smooth and realistic legato.



Again....trying not to sound selfish, but I could care less about their percussion. Good percussion is easy to find and I'm sure CSP will be great probably phenomenal, but CSP is not a necessity....nor will I be paying attention to it's release even a fraction of what I have with CSW. *CSW IS A NECESSITY.*


----------



## ethormusic

Robert_G said:


> Again....trying not to sound selfish, but I could care less about their percussion. Good percussion is easy to find and I'm sure CSP will be great probably phenomenal, but CSP is not a necessity....nor will I be paying attention to it's release even a fraction of what I have with CSW. *CSW IS A NECESSITY.*


That's exactly my point. There are so many percussion libraries out there already.


----------



## cqd

I've a feeling the new EWHO Woodwinds are going to give them a run for their money..


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

cqd said:


> I've a feeling the new EWHO Woodwinds are going to give them a run for their money..


Ah finally...we're back to the memes


----------



## cqd

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Ah finally...we're back to the memes


I'm serious..


----------



## purple

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Ah finally...we're back to the memes


hard post


----------



## Michael Stibor

purple said:


> hard post


But fair


----------



## Noc

cqd said:


> I've a feeling the new EWHO Woodwinds are going to give them a run for their money..


Is this referring to some announcement or is just a joke/meme I’m too dumb to get?


----------



## purple

Noc said:


> Is this referring to some announcement or is just a joke/meme I’m too dumb to get?


There are some new recordings and fixes to be delivered with the new opus edition of hollywood orchestra (releasing soon).


----------



## Noc

purple said:


> There are some new recordings and fixes to be delivered with the new opus edition of hollywood orchestra (releasing soon).


Huh, nice. This is the first I’m hearing of the Opus Edition (just Googled it now) – wonder why I didn’t get an EW email about it.


----------



## ricoderks

Csw release


----------



## muziksculp

Another CSWLess morning.


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

But I thought CSW was going to release if we hit page 100 on this thread ...


----------



## RogiervG

f it isn't released before or at christmas day or boxing day (uk time)... or Alex didn't chime in with some very current release information (not too much to ask i think), well i *think*.. i'll go shopping for something else instead.
Have my eye on several products from several developers...

See it as: "i can't stand the waiting anymore without any release schedule present.. and with all the sales going on..i would be hurting myself for not buying anything of the list i have.. " - still i *want csw* ofcourse and i will still *get csw* ofcourse.. question now is when. If Alex can provide a defenitive release date, i can plan the purchase (you can only spend money once)... either buy from the sales list.. OR if the release is within a few days (before dec 31), i likely will buy csw on release day..


----------



## muziksculp

Again, I feel developers sometimes need to say something, provide some feedback, I feel this is a good time for AW. to do so, of course, we can just wait, and not hear any feedback from him, but it's not the same type of waiting experience. 

i.e. he doesn't have to give us any release date, or promises, but maybe just give us a status update of the library, i.e. it's at NI, and we are waiting for them to finish encoding it. Please be patient. ... , imho. this will only help, (not hurt anyone), it will help all of us wait patiently for the release of CSW.


----------



## RogiervG

I think he already can tell us what the release week is.. (maybe not the day) but the week is wide enough for a very good prediction from his side. He knows where the library is at in the current phase. And if the encoding is busy, i bet NI has a progression meter on a dashboard OR a finish date provided per mail to him.
If Alex is still developing the library, it's not realistic to think it will be released within 2 weeks from now e.g. or heck, even more (depending on how much there is still to be developed).
Whatever the case is.. Alex should indeed chime in, with some more information, and realistic expectations (no promises, unless he actually knows ofcourse)
And its always nice to have have a close connection with your customers and vice versa. A forum is a good way of accomplishing a close and stable connection


----------



## Bluemount Score

Despite the memes, which I do very much enjoy, I'm more on the "it will be released whenever it's done" side. There is nothing I would need CSW for right now and as a hobbyist, question is if I ever gonna _need_ it anyways. I have other options. I'm just lazy. Do I still want CSW right NOW? Hell yes! But I'm 100% sure Alex and his small team are doing their very best. And if the release is already in the hands of NI, you know, no reason to push anything further either.


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I feel like this thread is on a constant loop.


----------



## RogiervG

well.. yes and no...

every day is *different* day here in this thread...*different* memes *different* hopes on release dates
The only *common thing* we do *each day* is the *waiting* and telling fellow *waiting* persons here about the fact that we are still *waiting* as they are doing too..


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet?

Fin.


----------



## ethormusic

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet?
> 
> Fin.


lol accurate.


----------



## Bluemount Score

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet?
> 
> Fin.


Guilty! I mean, respect to us if a 100+ thread about a non-existing library would be filled with new content on every page


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet?
> 
> Fin.


This needs to be a pinned post, if that's even possible


----------



## muziksculp

Is the library out yet ?


----------



## RogiervG

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet?
> 
> Fin.



But still it's different memes, and different ways of expressing the waiting. It's a suprise each day!

_ps.. i haven't seen a "sick" meme anywhere? only funny ones and somewhat lesser funny ones.. but sick (aka negative) i haven't seen yet... _


----------



## Gingerbread

While we're waiting....Does anyone familiar with developing a library have a theory on why Alex's libraries (and in particular his legato) is top-of-class? Does he have some secret formula that no other developer (even the big companies) have figured out? Is it merely the time and effort he puts into perfecting every edit and recording sample? Is it some magical coding he figured out? All of the above?

In short, is it the time he takes, or is it secret sauce?


----------



## RogiervG

Gingerbread said:


> While we're waiting....Does anyone familiar with developing a library have a theory on why Alex's libraries (and in particular his legato) is top-of-class? Does he have some secret formula that no other developer (even the big companies) have figured out? Is it merely the time and effort he puts into perfecting every edit and recording sample? Is it some magical coding he figured out? All of the above?
> 
> In short, is it the time he takes, or is it secret sauce?



oh that answer is simple: it's Alex and team! they just have magic hands coding away.. the world has no clue on how they have these super powers.


----------



## Gingerbread

RogiervG said:


> _ps.. i haven't seen a "sick" meme anywhere? only funny ones and somewhat lesser funny ones.. but sick (aka negative) i haven't seen yet... _


Sick = slang for "cool" or "amazingly good"

Ex. "That song has a sick bass line."


----------



## VivianaSings

Gingerbread said:


> While we're waiting....Does anyone familiar with developing a library have a theory on why Alex's libraries (and in particular his legato) is top-of-class? Does he have some secret formula that no other developer (even the big companies) have figured out? Is it merely the time and effort he puts into perfecting every edit and recording sample? Is it some magical coding he figured out? All of the above?
> 
> In short, is it the time he takes, or is it secret sauce?



Vegemite.


----------



## prodigalson

muziksculp said:


> it will help all of us wait patiently for the release of CSW.



Or alternatively, you could just wait patiently for the release of CSW


----------



## RogiervG

Gingerbread said:


> Sick = slang for "cool" or "amazingly good"



Ah thanks for pointing that out. i thought more in the sense of "you have a sick mind.." aka negative/mean/offensive etc .. my bad


----------



## muziksculp

prodigalson said:


> Or alternatively, you could just wait patiently for the release of CSW



That's what I have been doing for a few years already.


----------



## RogiervG

muziksculp said:


> That's what I have been doing for a few years already.



Yes the waiting room.. here on Vi-control, i am part of it too


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

RogiervG said:


> But still it's different memes, and different ways of expressing the waiting. It's a suprise each day!
> 
> _ps.. i haven't seen a "sick" meme anywhere? only funny ones and somewhat lesser funny ones.. but sick (aka negative) i haven't seen yet... _


'Sick' meant in a positive way 😂


----------



## RogiervG

NeonMediaKJT said:


> 'Sick' meant in a positive way 😂


Yeah, i know now.. haha


----------



## Leonard Wolf

muziksculp said:


> Again, I feel developers sometimes need to say something, provide some feedback, I feel this is a good time for AW. to do so, of course, we can just wait, and not hear any feedback from him, but it's not the same type of waiting experience.
> 
> i.e. he doesn't have to give us any release date, or promises, but maybe just give us a status update of the library, i.e. it's at NI, and we are waiting for them to finish encoding it. Please be patient. ... , imho. this will only help, (not hurt anyone), it will help all of us wait patiently for the release of CSW.



Would you be satisfied if CSW had the same big marketing nonsense as Spitfire has (no offense) for example with millions of teaser of a teaser and trailer videos? Seriously, let Alex and his team breathe guys! Keep calm, they are also humans just as we are. Holidays are right at our doorsteps and I don't have to introduce this year's difficulties to anyone. I'm also looking forward to CSW of course, I have everything from them and I am sure it will be as fantastic as the others in the series, if not better. We know Alex's philosophy about sampling so, if it takes another year in production it's totally fine for me, just be good. I don't wanna listing companies who give life to 10-15 new sample library per year and has a ton of bugs, glitches and anomalies and they almost NEVER fix some of the bugs, instead of that they jumping on another "brand new/ground-breaking and game changer" library, just the 10th in a row in just that specific year.
Long story short, stop everyone crying here about "When will CSW be released?", just go spend some time with your family, write some wonderful music and have fun in life! CSW will be out whenever it has to be released, just be patient.
Cheers!


----------



## muziksculp

Here is some waiting room Strings & Oboe music to keep you entertained, and enlightened, and inspired while we wait for CSW to arrive.


----------



## Gingerbread

*VI C:* Developers should stop rushing their products so they aren't filled with glitches and bugs!

*Also VI C:* Hurry up, Alex! Faster! You're taking too long! Release it immediately!!


----------



## muziksculp

Leonard Wolf said:


> Long story short,



You seem to have time to write a long post teaching us how to wait.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Gingerbread said:


> While we're waiting....Does anyone familiar with developing a library have a theory on why Alex's libraries (and in particular his legato) is top-of-class? Does he have some secret formula that no other developer (even the big companies) have figured out? Is it merely the time and effort he puts into perfecting every edit and recording sample? Is it some magical coding he figured out? All of the above?
> 
> In short, is it the time he takes, or is it secret sauce?



Because Alex is a brilliant composer himself. He understands what is needed from a composer's perspective, and not just 'what the consumers want'. We only need to listen to his demos to see that he has the musical sensibilities to match the instruments he creates. His expertise spans from both the development of the instruments, and the *usage *of the instruments.
Instead of surveying customers on what _they_ want, I suspect Alex develops what _he_ wants.

Developers who 'think like a business' rarely release anything extraordinary. They set superficial deadlines for themselves instead of prioritizing the perfection of a product. They release products based on demand and not their own expertise.
Based on appearance, Alex does not fit this profile.

Not trying to bash other devs, but if I'm honest, I simply don't get the same impression from all others.


----------



## ChristianM

Everratic said:


> The url https://cinematicstudioseries.com/woodwinds now displays the home page instead of "page not found" :o


Library not found


----------



## redlite

Leonard Wolf said:


> Would you be satisfied if CSW had the same big marketing nonsense as Spitfire has (no offense) for example with millions of teaser of a teaser and trailer videos? Seriously, let Alex and his team breathe guys! Keep calm, they are also humans just as we are. Holidays are right at our doorsteps and I don't have to introduce this year's difficulties to anyone. I'm also looking forward to CSW of course, I have everything from them and I am sure it will be as fantastic as the others in the series, if not better. We know Alex's philosophy about sampling so, if it takes another year in production it's totally fine for me, just be good. I don't wanna listing companies who give life to 10-15 new sample library per year and has a ton of bugs, glitches and anomalies and they almost NEVER fix some of the bugs, instead of that they jumping on another "brand new/ground-breaking and game changer" library, just the 10th in a row in just that specific year.
> Long story short, stop everyone crying here about "When will CSW be released?", just go spend some time with your family, write some wonderful music and have fun in life! CSW will be out whenever it has to be released, just be patient.
> Cheers!


----------



## ProfoundSilence

Jdiggity1 said:


> Developers who 'think like a business' rarely release anything extraordinary. They set superficial deadlines for themselves instead of prioritizing the perfection of a product.



While I don't agree that the devs don't use their own products - this is part of the puzzle when companies get bigger and work on strict deadlines. Higher profit margins but not always higher quality.


----------



## muziksculp

I hope we don't get more posts lecturing us to wait patiently, that's what we are doing, and have been doing for over 2 years. Please have some respect for the waiting room audience.


----------



## Bluemount Score

RogiervG said:


> Yes the waiting room.. here on Vi-control, i am part of it too


Just imagine this thread as a real physical room with real patients, sitting in a circle and repetitively talking about the same topics, waiting until the doctor comes and calls them up. But the doctor never comes. Yea, that's us!


----------



## muziksculp

Soon we will need a real doctor to deal with our CSW waiting syndrome side effects


----------



## Robert_G

I don't want Alex to rush CSW either, but the fact that he's already told us before Christmas, and now we know that there are NI coding delays.....for him to take 30 seconds of his day to give us an update would be really appreciated.


----------



## muziksculp

Robert_G said:


> I don't want Alex to rush CSW either, but the fact that he's already told us before Christmas, and now we know that there are NI coding delays.....for him to take 30 seconds of his day to give us an update would be really appreciated.



Exactly my point earlier. What's the big deal, he can just type ... we are just waiting for NI to finish encoding the library.


----------



## RogiervG

yeah.. after a few years i dare to admit, i hate waiting, but i am also addicated to it in a weird way (the memes etc.. )

But some little update here from our super developer Alex, is indeed appreciated. (and won't take long for him to do on a regular basis)


----------



## Jdiggity1

muziksculp said:


> Exactly my point earlier. What's the big deal, he can just type ... we are just waiting for NI to finish encoding the library.



When did this become the official status, by the way?
You realise the developer has not confirmed that the library has been finished, right?

As it stands, this is just speculation, and speculation is fine! But the amount of times you've said this by now is pushing it into "misinformation" territory, which is unhelpful and potentially misleading.


----------



## Casiquire

Yeah I'm loving this thread. I'm unlikely to get CSW so as far as I'm concerned Alex can take his sweet time. Don't release it yet Alex, it'll ruin all the fun 😛


----------



## muziksculp

If AW. provides some feedback here, there won't be speculation.


----------



## Gingerbread

Alex owes us nothing. He was generous enough to personally drop us a note a few weeks ago regarding the timetable. There's no need for more until it drops. We have no leverage over him, nor should we.


----------



## muziksculp

Gingerbread said:


> Alex owes us nothing. He was generous enough to personally drop us a note a few weeks ago regarding the timetable. There's no need for more until it drops. We have no leverage over him, nor should we.



No, surely he doesn't. 

Why is it so difficult to get some status feedback from a developer ? Do you think that keeping us waiting in the dark is a better way to tackle this ? 

Anyways.. I'm OFF posting here, I have better things to do, so happy waiting.


----------



## filipjonathan

Leonard Wolf said:


> I don't wanna listing companies who give life to 10-15 new sample library per year and has a ton of bugs, glitches and anomalies and they almost NEVER fix some of the bugs, instead of that they jumping on another "brand new/ground-breaking and game changer" library


I have NO idea who you're talking about


----------



## Gingerbread

Jdiggity1 said:


> Because Alex is a brilliant composer himself. He understands what is needed from a composer's perspective, and not just 'what the consumers want'. We only need to listen to his demos to see that he has the musical sensibilities to match the instruments he creates. His expertise spans from both the development side, AND the usage of the instruments.
> Instead of surveying customers on what _they_ want, Alex develops what _he_ wants.
> 
> Developers who 'think like a business' rarely release anything extraordinary. They set superficial deadlines for themselves instead of prioritizing the perfection of a product. They release products that they themselves will not use or have expertise about.
> Based on appearance, Alex does not fit this profile.
> 
> Not trying to bash other devs, but if I'm honest, I simply don't get the same impression from most others.


Then it is a matter of his having a particularly good aesthetic ear, knowing exactly what he wants, and committing whatever time needed to do it. Not a technological or scripting advance per se, but rather a uniquely refined aesthetic sensibility guiding each decision.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Gingerbread said:


> Then it is a matter of his having a particularly good aesthetic ear, knowing exactly what he wants, and committing whatever time needed to do it. Not a technological or scripting advance, but rather a uniquely refined aesthetic sensibility guiding each decision.


It's as you alluded to earlier - likely a case of "All of the above"


----------



## Sovereign

Gingerbread said:


> While we're waiting....Does anyone familiar with developing a library have a theory on why Alex's libraries (and in particular his legato) is top-of-class? Does he have some secret formula that no other developer (even the big companies) have figured out? Is it merely the time and effort he puts into perfecting every edit and recording sample? Is it some magical coding he figured out? All of the above?


What Alex did is not difficult to grasp. Three legato speeds, retaining much more of the transition (before and after the destination note) and high-quality takes and edits. Oh and a good ear on how he wanted the players to play. That is it. It surprises me that, to date, none have copied this exact system. Although SSB is somewhat of an attempt, you only get two legato speeds, and the quality of some of the takes and edits, well ... It seems Alex sat in the recording booth until the material he wanted was near perfect.

That said, I would love a pro update to CSS with more articulations, such as flautando legato, 'pattern' legato, violins with a tad less vibrato, and more ..


----------



## filipjonathan

Sovereign said:


> That said, I would love a pro update to CSS with more articulations, such as flautando legato, 'pattern' legato, violins with a tad less vibrato, and more ..


Ooooh me like!!!


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Gingerbread said:


> While we're waiting....Does anyone familiar with developing a library have a theory on why Alex's libraries (and in particular his legato) is top-of-class?



I have no idea .... but for me personally, I think a lot of the success for the Cinematic Studio Series comes down to product quality and customer service.
Alex and his team are so darn friendly I feel like I'm actually friends with them- and I've only exchanged like 3 or 4 emails with them over the past 4 years. But on top of that, their libraries are world-class. They have yet to release a product that is disappointing and doesn't deliver. There's a good reason their libraries are the backbone for orchestral templates of so many composers including myself, so in this case, for me, the developer-consumer relationship goes a long way. They have made a name for themselves in the sample library world, despite being a smaller developer, the excellence of their products, not to mention the quality of them over quantity of them, is very notable.


----------



## Beans

As a casual observer, this thread really sucks. And it has nothing to do with Alex or the long wait.


----------



## Leonard Wolf

muziksculp said:


> You seem to have time to write a long post teaching us how to wait.



I don't teach you anything, it was just a kind suggestion. By the way I don't get why some people acts like there's no tomorrow without CSW, and literally dying throughout the waiting. Is CSW the only product which is in your way to be able to write world class music? I don't think so. I just repeat myself before you get me wrong, I am also a big fan of the Cinematic Series and Alex has all of my faith, but we have no right for rushing Alex. Don't you think he's the one who wants it to be released ASAP? If he's in silence, that can mean that the development lagging furthermore, or he came accross with some problem. He could public a note everyday about the progress but why? People would be still complaining for sure. The Cinematic Series is still my favourite company, quality over quantity, no senseless marketing campaign for months before the release and always kind and helpful support assistance. It's far more than enough, instead of claiming the next library to be out.


----------



## timbit2006

I'm in the market for a serious bread 'n' butter type woodwinds library and have been holding off on purchasing one until CSW is released or we at least get a proper date but I think I'm giving up hope and going with one of the alternatives that are on sale at this point. I mainly just want something to layer with SWAM anyways, if anyone has good recommendations there let me know.


----------



## Batrawi

geez... calm down everyone.. here, have some memes..


----------



## markleake

Hey @Kony 

To help those of us who just want to know when CSW is released, I have a request... could you remove the question mark from the thread title once it is released?

That way I don't need to come check this thread and be dissapointed every day.


----------



## Martin Nyrwal

Leonard Wolf said:


> Would you be satisfied if CSW had the same big marketing nonsense as Spitfire has (no offense) for example with millions of teaser of a teaser and trailer videos? Seriously, let Alex and his team breathe guys! Keep calm, they are also humans just as we are. Holidays are right at our doorsteps and I don't have to introduce this year's difficulties to anyone. I'm also looking forward to CSW of course, I have everything from them and I am sure it will be as fantastic as the others in the series, if not better. We know Alex's philosophy about sampling so, if it takes another year in production it's totally fine for me, just be good. I don't wanna listing companies who give life to 10-15 new sample library per year and has a ton of bugs, glitches and anomalies and they almost NEVER fix some of the bugs, instead of that they jumping on another "brand new/ground-breaking and game changer" library, just the 10th in a row in just that specific year.
> Long story short, stop everyone crying here about "When will CSW be released?", just go spend some time with your family, write some wonderful music and have fun in life! CSW will be out whenever it has to be released, just be patient.
> Cheers!



Here we can see why Jasper Blunk has left the forum for the time being or how much work/money has to be spent to create AND maintain a hype train. That is what espacially Spitfire is doing really well. And it costs some bucks to do so, by the way. I personally got my Woodwinds fix in the meantime with SSW and BWW at the lowest prices ever. And I will pick up CSW very relaxed some time in 2021 when everything is sorted out. If you bet all your money on just one horse, it better wins. And if it should not win, for some reason, then please don't slaughter it in the end. The hype in this thread has some unhealthy qualities at times.

I personally wish Alex all the best to succeed with this library. But if it should take until 2023 and take a one year vacation from the hype, then just do it. I can wait for the product that you want to create for as long as it takes.


----------



## Bluemount Score

markleake said:


> Hey @Kony
> 
> To help those of us who just want to know when CSW is released, I have a request... could you remove the question mark from the thread title once it is released?
> 
> That way I don't need to come check this thread and be dissapointed every day.


How about a new thread after it's released, called "Cinematic Studio Woodwinds!"


----------



## RogiervG

Beans said:


> As a casual observer, this thread really sucks. And it has nothing to do with Alex or the long wait.


sucks? awwwww isn't that a bit too harsh? or do you mean.. sucks as in it sucks you in to be part of the thread.. you cannot resist anymore.


----------



## RogiervG

Bluemount Score said:


> How about a new thread after it's released, called "Cinematic Studio Woodwinds!"


Ofcourse there will be a new thread once it is released, with CSW in the title and/or Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> Anyways.. I'm OFF posting here, I have better things to do, so happy waiting.


hey don't let other people dictate what you do here. You are not harming anyone, you are actually the one keeping this thread alive otherwise we'd be bored to death waiting. This is supposed to be fun, in a few days, weeks or months CSW will be old news and this forum will be obsessing about something else. 

And you don't fool me, you will return!! XD


----------



## RogiervG

Martin Nyrwal said:


> Here we can see why Jasper Blunk has left the forum for the time being or how much work/money has to be spent to create AND maintain a hype train. That is what espacially Spitfire is doing really well. And it costs some bucks to do so, by the way. I personally got my Woodwinds fix in the meantime with SSW and BWW at the lowest prices ever. And I will pick up CSW very relaxed some time in 2021 when everything is sorted out. If you bet all your money on just one horse, it better wins. And if it should not win, for some reason, then please don't slaughter it in the end. The hype in this thread has some unhealthy qualities at times.
> 
> I personally wish Alex all the best to succeed with this library. But if it should take until 2023 and take a one year vacation from the hype, then just do it. I can wait for the product that you want to create for as long as it takes.



Ofcourse, if it takes longer, it will take longer.. we all know that.
If it doesn't deliver once released (aka the hype was too big), we won't blame Alex and team at all.
No.. we are just doing the waiting game.. (for a long term already mind you)
and have fun doing so.


----------



## Beans

RogiervG said:


> sucks? awwwww isn't that a bit too harsh? or do you mean.. sucks as in it sucks you in to be part of the thread.. you cannot resist anymore.



I'm not even looking at the names, to be honest, but even just one person practically demanding that Alex provides an update is ridiculous and childish. As Martin said, it's easy to see why some developers may choose to leave or never post here in the first place.


----------



## RogiervG

Beans said:


> I'm not even looking at the names, to be honest, but even just one person practically demanding that Alex provides an update is ridiculous and childish. As Martin said, it's easy to see why some developers may choose to leave or never post here in the first place.



I disagree on some parts.
Namely "ridiculous and childish", it isn't. It's a request from several people, including me. Ofcourse the longer the respons remain absent, the more "demanding" we get (but not in a very serious manner, mind you!).. But it's also a form of meme in a way, if you think about it.
And i really don't see why developers would, because of these requests, leave the forums. THAT is childish imho.. leaving, because people request things. (especially if a product is being marketed/hyped by these people for free!! It's sales departments wet dream: get all the buzz/hype/marketing done for you, in return for some tiny updates)


----------



## Kony

markleake said:


> Hey @Kony
> 
> To help those of us who just want to know when CSW is released, I have a request... could you remove the question mark from the thread title once it is released?


Will do!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Man, I remember the 80s and 90s. We used to just wait for stuff. Music, movies, anything. It was fine, nothing bad ever happened to anybody. We didn't need representatives whispering something comforting in our ear on a daily basis.


----------



## RogiervG

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Man, I remember the 80s and 90s. We used to just wait for stuff. Music, movies, anything. It was fine, nothing bad ever happened to anybody. We didn't need representatives whispering something comforting in our ear on a daily basis.


but.. things where slower (internet was not a common thing still. Also software development was not as common/demanding as nowadays, No live streams, no social media, and other things we now take for granted) back then too... Modern life is fast paced, the well known 24 hour economy/life.

Heck online/modem banking was a new thing (mid/late nineties), and processing took quite long, compared to nowadays.


----------



## ricoderks

NeonMediaKJT said:


> Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet? > No > I feel like Alex should give us an update > I'm sure Alex is working very hard, leave him alone > Ok, fine. > Sick meme > Is the library out yet?
> 
> Fin.


I'm only here for sick memes at the moment.
Agree on library is out when its out.


----------



## markleake

Kony said:


> Will do!


Awesome, thanks!


----------



## Toecutter

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Man, I remember the 80s and 90s. We used to just wait for stuff. Music, movies, anything. It was fine, nothing bad ever happened to anybody. We didn't need representatives whispering something comforting in our ear on a daily basis.


----------



## Michael Stibor

Poor Alex is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. If he says something like “I’m hoping to have it out by the 13th”, then when that day comes and goes with no release, everyone is up in arms. If he says nothing at all, then it’s “Alex owes us an answer!” When in reality the only reason we even _think_ he owes us anything is because it’s a small operation. Hey, I want to know when GTA 6 is coming out, but I’m sure nobody is going to tell me, nor am I expecting anyone to!

Having said that, I do understand where the impatience is coming from. I mean it has been a freakin’ long time. But again, there are lots of reasons for that. Some are obvious (ie COVID), some less so. You know, behind the scenes stuff that we don’t know about. But I know there are many like me who have been putting off buying other woodwinds programs due to the hope that CSW is coming out “soon” but the date of “soon” keeps changing.

So let’s try and cut each other some slack. I’m sure Alex wants it out as much as we do. Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all!


----------



## NeonMediaKJT

I like how I made that comment and about 1 hour later the loop commenced 😂


----------



## jamwerks

cqd said:


> I've a feeling the new EWHO Woodwinds are going to give them a run for their money..


I've read that there won't be any new WW's. Did I miss something?


----------



## mcalis

Gingerbread said:


> While we're waiting....Does anyone familiar with developing a library have a theory on why Alex's libraries (and in particular his legato) is top-of-class? Does he have some secret formula that no other developer (even the big companies) have figured out? Is it merely the time and effort he puts into perfecting every edit and recording sample? Is it some magical coding he figured out? All of the above?
> 
> In short, is it the time he takes, or is it secret sauce?


Not a developer but if I'm not mistaken, the CSS and CSB legatos were recorded as long-form legato, meaning it is recorded as a full sustain into another full sustain.

Most libraries are recorded in such a way that sustains and legatos are recorded separately. That is to say: they first record all the sustain notes and then record all the transitions between notes separately. Obviously, long form legato takes significantly more time to record and the risk of player fatigue is much more prominent.

Another suspicion I have is that CSS and CSB have actual legato transitions for every dynamic layer. Believe it or not: some libs may claim 4 or 5 dynamic layers on the sustains but only have recorded legato transitions at 2 dynamic layers, usually at mp and f. 

Finally, there could be some clever phase aligning going on, but phase aligning usually kills timbre and I don't hear that.

All that and a perfectionist (in the best possible way) editing & scripting attitude are what makes these libs so good


----------



## cqd

jamwerks said:


> I've read that there won't be any new WW's. Did I miss something?



The solo winds there now are getting reprogrammed, and there will be new sections..


----------



## Kony




----------



## Kony




----------



## Bluemount Score

Kony said:


>


The power of legato shall be left to him alone!

Oh... I remember power legato was a thing already before


----------



## X-Bassist

Kony said:


>


What? Got it 2 days ago when the website lite up. Where have you been?






I've heard the link doesn't work (or light up) on some browsers. Are you using the right browser?


----------



## Bluemount Score

X-Bassist said:


> What? Got it 2 days ago when the website lite up. Where have you been?


Moments like these make me miss an "angry" type of reaction button


----------



## Casiquire

Bluemount Score said:


> The power of legato shall be left to him alone!
> 
> Oh... I remember power legato was a thing already before


Idk why everyone gave them such a hard time over Power Legato in the first place haha they're an exaggerated legato, the name kind of makes sense to me!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Casiquire said:


> Idk why everyone gave them such a hard time over Power Legato in the first place haha they're an exaggerated legato, the name kind of makes sense to me!


Yea it's a cool playing technique that I do enjoy in Ark 4 :D Perhaps the word "power" sounds a bit silly for an actual muscial term in that context..


----------



## jbuhler

Casiquire said:


> Idk why everyone gave them such a hard time over Power Legato in the first place haha they're an exaggerated legato, the name kind of makes sense to me!


It’s kind of amusing as a concept, at least I think it is.


----------



## Kony




----------



## CT

In honor of page 108






I'll do another one if we get to 815.


----------



## timbit2006

I'm sure glad the forum went down for a bit, I was actually able to fight the urge to check this thread every 5 minutes and get some work done.


----------



## Kony

CSW Kontakt encoding is almost complete


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

RogiervG said:


> but.. things where slower (internet was not a common thing still. Also software development was not as common/demanding as nowadays, No live streams, no social media, and other things we now take for granted) back then too... Modern life is fast paced, the well known 24 hour economy/life.
> 
> Heck online/modem banking was a new thing (mid/late nineties), and processing took quite long, compared to nowadays.



I'm happy to have online banking, but what does that have to do with grown-ass men acting like children? Is that what people call "fast-paced life"?


----------



## Loïc D

Leave Alex alone please...
He’s too busy writing the music of Half Life 3 and Beyond Good&Evil 2.


----------



## redlite




----------



## RogiervG

I think i'll stop posting here..it's getting pointless for many reasons. And well, to be frank as funny as many memes and reactions are.. it won't influence the release date in any way.
So, i'll wait for my discount codes to arrive in the mail and for the new thread once it's released.
See ya guys and lads...it was funny/nice for as long as it lasted.
see you in the "csw released!" thread 

*pressing the unwatch button*

_Ps. Besides that.. i noticed since like a few weeeks: people start to become more and more grumpy and telling others what to and not to do (and verdict them), if they disagree on opinions/suggestions they don't like imho.._


----------



## Alex W

Hi everyone,

Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.

So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!

In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.

Thanks again and happy holidays!

Alex


----------



## filipjonathan

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex


Oh how this message makes me happy 

Merry Christmas Alex!!


----------



## tcb

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex


CSW GOGO


----------



## N.Caffrey

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex


What a gent. Merry Christmas Alex!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex


Thanks for the heads up! I'm sure you did your best so far and will continue to do so. Looking forward to the release, Merry Christmas and enjoy the holidays! Take some time of, you deserve it.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex



I feel bad for you having to babysit here on a Dec 24th. Enjoy your holidays, dude.


----------



## MartinH.

Alex W said:


> Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch.


Come on, enjoy some proper days off during the Holidays, you've earned them! I'm sure CSW will have been worth the wait and a couple days more or less really don't matter at this point. You've done plenty of great and hard work for us, you deserve some rest!


----------



## Batrawi

Bluemount Score said:


> Looking forward to the release, Merry Christmas and enjoy the holidays!


Yes enjoy the release.... I mean the workingdays... I mean the holiday release... I mea... just enjoy, enjoy


----------



## Bluemount Score

Batrawi said:


> Yes enjoy the release.... I mean the workingdays... I mean the holiday release... I mea... just enjoy, enjoy


Just enjoy whatever!


----------



## mcalis

Enjoy your well-deserved holidays Alex, and permit yourself some time off, I'd say, but naturally that's your decision to make. January will be a terrible month for my wallet with HOOPUS, CSW, LASS3/MSS and the first of the Spitfire abbey road selections coming to market.

But only one of those is guaranteed to get my cash


----------



## Eptesicus

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex




Thanks for the update! I would much rather it was right and released a bit later.

Cant wait to buy it in the new year.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!


----------



## Toecutter

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I feel bad for you having to babysit here on a Dec 24th. Enjoy your holidays, dude.




It is called having consideration for others. You should try it sometime, dude.


----------



## Toecutter

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex


Thanks for the update Alex, you are a class act!! Happy holidays 🎄


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

Toecutter said:


> It is called having consideration for others. You should try it sometime, dude.


 I sometimes lack empathy. I'm sorry you're going through this difficult time.


----------



## Toecutter

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I sometimes lack empathy. I'm sorry you're going through this difficult time.


hey there is no better time to change than right now and today, Dec 24th. I hope whatever you're going through loosens up its grasp soon 🤗


----------



## Rob Elliott

Merry Christmas Alex to you and yours.


----------



## Casiquire

RogiervG said:


> I think i'll stop posting here..it's getting pointless for many reasons. And well, to be frank as funny as many memes and reactions are.. it won't influence the release date in any way.
> So, i'll wait for my discount codes to arrive in the mail and for the new thread once it's released.
> See ya guys and lads...it was funny/nice for as long as it lasted.
> see you in the "csw released!" thread
> 
> *pressing the unwatch button*
> 
> _Ps. Besides that.. i noticed since like a few weeeks: people start to become more and more grumpy and telling others what to and not to do (and verdict them), if they disagree on opinions/suggestions they don't like imho.._


You picked the exact wrong moment to unfollow


----------



## constaneum

Keep posting guys.. Alex gonna come back and update us again once we've hit 150 pages !!🤣🤣 Merry Xmas everyone.


----------



## RogiervG

Casiquire said:


> You picked the exact wrong moment to unfollow


Yeah, i noticed.. haha
Well.. uhmm guess what! I AM BACK AGAIN! :-D


----------



## RogiervG

Alex W said:


> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex



Alex and family, friends and all the staff at cinematic studio series:
Have a very nice Christmas and thank you for your feedback! 👍


----------



## rmak

mcalis said:


> Enjoy your well-deserved holidays Alex, and permit yourself some time off, I'd say, but naturally that's your decision to make. January will be a terrible month for my wallet with HOOPUS, CSW, LASS3/MSS and the first of the Spitfire abbey road selections coming to market.
> 
> But only one of those is guaranteed to get my cash



May I ask what hoopus is?


----------



## DarkShinryu

rmak said:


> May I ask what hoopus is?


Eastwest hollywood orchestra opus.


----------



## muziksculp

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex



Hi Alex,

Thank You Very Much for updating us on CSW's Status. 

Wishing You Happy Holidays, and a Happy New Year. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex


Thank you Alex! Merry Christmas! 2021 is already off to a great start!


----------



## Drundfunk

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex


Happy Holidays Alex!


----------



## David Kudell

I’m hoping this will help fuel a surge in woodwind usage in film music. I’ve never seen such excitement for a sample library of a group instruments many composers don’t even use these days! 😂


----------



## muziksculp

2021 will be the year of woodwind centered scores. Especially if composers go easy on brass, to let the woodwinds say something.


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> Hi Alex,
> 
> Thank You Very Much for updating us on CSW's Status.
> 
> Wishing You Happy Holidays, and a Happy New Year.
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


That's on you! Thanks for your work on this thread


----------



## muziksculp

Toecutter said:


> That's on you! Thanks for your work on this thread



Thanks. See... the wait in the waiting room is so much more enjoyable now


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> Thanks. See... the wait in the waiting room is so much more enjoyable now


Yep! Didn't hurt Alex or took him more than 2 minutes to write that and now everyone is happy...until tomorrow, another CSWless Xmas morning


----------



## RogiervG

Toecutter said:


> Yep! Didn't hurt Alex or took him more than 2 minutes to write that and now everyone is happy...until tomorrow, another CSWless Xmas morning


Nah.. no not me, seriously i am patient again... 



*repeating to myself over and over: be patient, be patient, be patient, be patient, release is very close... be patient*


----------



## Michael Stibor

Mike T said:


> In honor of page 108
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll do another one if we get to 815.


CSS DOES do a great Giacchino/LOST sound!


----------



## Michael Stibor

At this point I’m happy it’s coming out in January. It’s such a depressing month. At least now I have something to look forward to (and play with too, hopefully!).


----------



## pawelmorytko

David Kudell said:


> I’m hoping this will help fuel a surge in woodwind usage in film music. I’ve never seen such excitement for a sample library of a group instruments many composers don’t even use these days! 😂


What if it's a weird paradox where nobody uses them because there aren't many great options out there, and most of them super expensive. And every developer skips out on sampling them because nobody uses them...


----------



## purple

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex


----------



## ridgero

Don’t make the same mistake as Project Red with Cyberpunk.


----------



## RMH

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex


Thank you for letting me know. I think it would be a great comfort just by watching what it looks like and what it sounds like!


----------



## muziksculp

*Happy Holidays & Happy New Year Wishes to all.*


----------



## RMH

Merry Christmas to all!!


----------



## filipjonathan

RMH said:


> Merry Christmas to all!!


Lovely! 😊


----------



## Rufus Loacker

Merry Christmas, fellow woodwinds lovers!


----------



## Toecutter

muziksculp said:


> *Happy Holidays & Happy New Year Wishes to all.*


@Mike T approves this message


----------



## Casiquire

I think a lot of people here are overestimating samples' effects on orchestration. I don't think this library will change writing trends but it will give us another color to choose from and might offer some better sounding mockups! I think trends get set more in the realm of sound design than single libraries. Like Hollywood Strings was a HUGE library but it didn't change the landscape of string writing. The processed sounds of Damage though? I think they made an impact (lol see what i did?)


----------



## Ishouldwritemore

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex


Please take more than a few hours off. Take a few days off! We’re all going to buy the library anyway. Happy Holidays!


----------



## Bluemount Score

Casiquire said:


> I think a lot of people here are overestimating samples' effects on orchestration. I don't think this library will change writing trends but it will give us another color to choose from and might offer some better sounding mockups! I think trends get set more in the realm of sound design than single libraries. Like Hollywood Strings was a HUGE library but it didn't change the landscape of string writing. The processed sounds of Damage though? I think they made an impact (lol see what i did?)


What? Do you mean there is some sort of... how do I say it..._ CSW overhype _going on in this thread?


----------



## purple

Accessing the native instruments mainframe...

And...

I'm in!

Attempting to manually bypass the KONTAKT encryption....

DAMN! Firewall! Quick, someone send me a few more gigs of ram so I can brute force this thing!


----------



## Kony




----------



## Lazeez

Does anybody know if CSW will have run patches? I looked through this thread but couldn't find anything conclusive. I could wait but I'm currently working on a project that would greatly benefit from natural sounding runs. I can go ahead and buy something now (something very runs specific like Cinesamples Hollywoodruns) but I can also wait if I know CSW will have them. Thanks!


----------



## cqd

Lazeez said:


> Does anybody know if CSW will have run patches? I looked through this thread but couldn't find anything conclusive. I could wait but I'm currently working on a project that would greatly benefit from natural sounding runs. I can go ahead and buy something now (something very runs specific like Cinesamples Hollywoodruns) but I can also wait if I know CSW will have them. Thanks!


Yup..
New runs patches coming for the strings too..


----------



## lettucehat

Where do people learn about these CSS updates coming?


----------



## constaneum

lettucehat said:


> Where do people learn about these CSS updates coming?


I think it was mentioned by Alex himself previously.


----------



## benatural

Alex W said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Firstly I want to thank everybody for their patience and support. Right up till today we were hoping it might be possible to release CSW before the end of 2020, but I'm afraid we're not going to make it. We tried _really_ hard to get it all ready in time, and it came right down to the wire in the end; unfortunately we took a bit too long getting everything just right, and missed the pre-Christmas deadline. So now we're just waiting on final approvals and so on - this is the same process every developer has to go through to ensure that a library is completely ready for distribution.
> 
> So once again, I'm very sorry - I know folks will undoubtedly be disappointed at this, but hang in there, it should only be a couple of weeks away now!
> 
> In the meantime I wish you all a nice relaxing holiday break. Apart from taking a few hours off over Christmas, I'll continue to work around the clock to make sure everything goes smoothly for the launch. If I get a chance to make some videos or demos in the next week or so I'll post them here to give you a bit more of an idea of how the library looks and sounds.
> 
> Thanks again and happy holidays!
> 
> Alex


@Alex W can't wait for your library but I also feel compelled to say, I'm worried about you. You say you're working night and day on CSW, and I can't go but feel concerned for your health. On behalf of me, please take care of yourself. We can wait for CSW - we're all going to buy it in a heartbeat when it comes out, and if you can have a few restful nights and release this thing later, we'll still be here.

Of course you may have business reasons for pushing so hard to get this thing done. And if that's the case, it's hard to argue against it and you should know we all support you in any case.

Really looking forward to this new library, love all your previous ones (use them all the time). Hope you and yours have a great, safe, and healthy holiday and New Year.


----------



## Lazeez

cqd said:


> Yup..
> New runs patches coming for the strings too..


Nice! Thanks.


----------



## purple

benatural said:


> @Alex W can't wait for your library but I also feel compelled to say, I'm worried about you. You say you're working night and day on CSW, and I can't go but feel concerned for your health. On behalf of me, please take care of yourself. We can wait for CSW - we're all going to buy it in a heartbeat when it comes out, and if you can have a few restful nights and release this thing later, we'll still be here.


No! We all must make sacrifices for the ultimate woodwind library. CSW can wait for no mere mortal... Blasphemy!


----------



## benatural

purple said:


> No! We all must make sacrifices for the ultimate woodwind library. CSW can wait for no mere mortal... Blasphe



😆

I just don't want Alex and crew to feel the pressure from us because we're all so hyped up about this library. Reading between the lines it sounds like he's taking it hard that he couldn't deliver the library ASAP and, well, it just sounds like the guy is under a lot of pressure at the moment

Or I'm just full of it... That happens a lot too


----------



## JEPA

I don't want to be a game spoiler but... Did you already noticed this on their website?


----------



## Eptesicus

JEPA said:


> I don't want to be a game spoiler but... Did you already noticed this on their website?



Yet another Spitfire woodwind library vs Cinematic Studio Woodwinds?

Lol...


----------



## Goldenork

Casiquire said:


> I think a lot of people here are overestimating samples' effects on orchestration. I don't think this library will change writing trends but it will give us another color to choose from and might offer some better sounding mockups! I think trends get set more in the realm of sound design than single libraries. Like Hollywood Strings was a HUGE library but it didn't change the landscape of string writing. The processed sounds of Damage though? I think they made an impact (lol see what i did?)


As an orchestrator I would love it if composers would use more woodwinds, especially double reeds. Strings and brass are a constant, HO or no. I recall way back in the day that there were not decent ww libraries so people stopped using them...


----------



## purple

Goldenork said:


> I recall way back in the day that there were not decent ww libraries so people stopped using them...


I feel this may be the same reason horns are used so prominently in film scores where trombones or trumpets might also be appropriate. It seems horn libraries just sound way better.

Hopefully CSW will lead the charge and cause a resurgence in woodwind usage.


----------



## muziksculp

What is your current go-to Woodwinds Library ?


----------



## Rob Elliott

cqd said:


> Yup..
> New runs patches coming for the strings too..


Awesome - I have gotten some good uses of the 'marc patch' (with no overlays) as a runs tool - but heck, this will be great!


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> What is your current go-to Woodwinds Library ?


CSW


----------



## Everratic

muziksculp said:


> What is your current go-to Woodwinds Library ?


BBCSO Core


----------



## mybadmemory

Perhaps this was already posted but if not... I’m getting CSW banner as we speak!


----------



## Bluemount Score

mybadmemory said:


> Perhaps this was already posted but if not... I’m getting CSW banner as we speak!


Yes, one could say it was mentioned here one or two times


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> What is your current go-to Woodwinds Library ?


BBCSO for orchestral blending, Claire Series for expressive solo lines


----------



## Rob Elliott

Currently Berlin Wds / Their solo series for showcasing moments.


----------



## makimakimusic

Spitfire studio and Nucleus.


----------



## Saxer

ethormusic said:


> CSW


Cinematic Studio Waiting


----------



## Tremendouz

Lazeez said:


> Does anybody know if CSW will have run patches? I looked through this thread but couldn't find anything conclusive. I could wait but I'm currently working on a project that would greatly benefit from natural sounding runs. I can go ahead and buy something now (something very runs specific like Cinesamples Hollywoodruns) but I can also wait if I know CSW will have them. Thanks!


I remember seeing a mention of a run mode somewhere (probably similar to how Cinematic Strings 2 does it) but I have no real info.

Edit: oops, I didn't notice I was reading old messages


----------



## I like music

Likely won't go for these soon. Happy enough with infinite woodwinds. Guess I'm too married to being able to control vibrato, even if there's a slight hit to tone (not much to ky amateur ear).

That said, very very sure that they'll be excellent!


----------



## purple

muziksculp said:


> What is your current go-to Woodwinds Library ?


I use BWW EXP B and fill in the rest with EW HWW


----------



## muziksculp

Saxer said:


> Cinematic Studio Waiting


🤣


----------



## Tremendouz

muziksculp said:


> What is your current go-to Woodwinds Library ?


Auddict solo woodwinds, 8dioboe , Embertone's Popelka Bassoon. Contrabassoon from Sonuscore The Orchestra (not amazing but does its job for doubling the bassoons).

8dio Claire alto flute!!


----------



## muziksculp

I decided to give my old VSL Woodwinds II (VI-Pro) based library a little test drive, and was very surprised at how good the woodwinds sound, with a high-quality reverb, since they were sampled in their silent stage, almost bone-dry. 

Anyone here have the older VSL woodwind libraries (Woodwinds I, Woodwinds II) , if Yes, do you still use them ?


----------



## Bluemount Score

muziksculp said:


> I decided to give my old VSL Woodwinds II (VI-Pro) based library a little test drive, and was very surprised at how good the woodwinds sound, with a high-quality reverb, since they were sampled in their silent stage, almost bone-dry.
> 
> Anyone here have the older VSL woodwind libraries (Woodwinds I, Woodwinds II) , if Yes, do you still use them ?


I got VSL woodwinds in my Kontakt Factory Library, but I think those are even older


----------



## muziksculp

Bluemount Score said:


> I got VSL woodwinds in my Kontakt Factory Library, but I think those are even older



Those are very old, and very different to what their VI/VI-Pro based Woodwinds I & II sound like.


----------



## BlueStar

muziksculp said:


> I decided to give my old VSL Woodwinds II (VI-Pro) based library a little test drive, and was very surprised at how good the woodwinds sound, with a high-quality reverb, since they were sampled in their silent stage, almost bone-dry.
> 
> Anyone here have the older VSL woodwind libraries (Woodwinds I, Woodwinds II) , if Yes, do you still use them ?


I still use my SE Woodwinds Standard/Extended. I had tried other options, but always came back to them. My only VSL product in use actually. - I definitely plan to buy CSW..


----------



## gohrev

muziksculp said:


> What is your current go-to Woodwinds Library ?



Spitfire Studio WW Pro. I dislike it, like I dislike the entire Studio Series. Sadly, I didn't know much about samples a year ago, and the prices were so attractive...

Flutes: Meh, but not horrible.
*Alto: Actually kind of beautiful!*
Bass flute: OK

Oboe: Kill me now. Terrible tone.
Cor Anglais: Mmmm no.

*Clarinet: Very, very pretty. Timbre a bit unstable.
Bass clarinet: Fine!*
Bassoon: OK
*Contrabassoon: Pretty.*


----------



## filipjonathan

berlin87 said:


> Kill me now


😂


----------



## Kony




----------



## Michael Stibor

muziksculp said:


> What is your current go-to Woodwinds Library ?


VSL SE. Definitely still crazy good considering it came out in what? 2008?


----------



## I like music

muziksculp said:


> I decided to give my old VSL Woodwinds II (VI-Pro) based library a little test drive, and was very surprised at how good the woodwinds sound, with a high-quality reverb, since they were sampled in their silent stage, almost bone-dry.
> 
> Anyone here have the older VSL woodwind libraries (Woodwinds I, Woodwinds II) , if Yes, do you still use them ?


I know a pro that uses them exclusively. He bought Berlin recently since a game dev requested that he use those (I think so that the libraries used were consistent with the other composers on the project). Berlin is now collecting dust on his machine. I actually prefer the sound of those VSLs maybe! Definitely more balanced!


----------



## I like music

Michael Stibor said:


> VSL SE. Definitely still crazy good considering it came out in what? 2008?


Yes! I don't own them but a friend does. They sound absolutely incredible to my ear!


----------



## muziksculp

Actually, a lot of the original VSL VI /VI-Pro based libraries sound pretty good, provided you know how to put them in a nice sounding space, and position them in the stage. MIR-Pro is good for positioning, and to add a bit of the early-reflections of the venue. 

Then using a dedicated high-quality Reverb for the tails is a must. Also EQ, Compression, Exciter, ...etc. basically more DSP treatments will be needed, they are not plug-and-play libraries. You need to set up their acoustic spaces, and engineer their sound. 

Those were the days when multi-mic options were not used with libraries, I actually can't recall which library started the multi-mic phenomena ... anyone know who started this ?


----------



## constaneum

muziksculp said:


> Those were the days when multi-mic options were not used with libraries, I actually can't recall which library started the multi-mic phenomena ... anyone know who started this ?



Is it East West's Symphonic Orchestra ?


----------



## muziksculp

constaneum said:


> Is it East West's Symphonic Orchestra ?



Hmmm.. Maybe, but I'm not sure.


----------



## jon wayne

I have BWW plus exp B, but for some reason I always end up using my Xsamples clarinet. I love the tone and dynamic range.


----------



## Bluemount Score

jon wayne said:


> (...) but for some reason I always end up using my Xsamples clarinet. I love the tone and dynamic range.


Yet another woodwind library I didn't even hear of before


----------



## DarkShinryu




----------



## Casiquire

I like music said:


> I know a pro that uses them exclusively. He bought Berlin recently since a game dev requested that he use those (I think so that the libraries used were consistent with the other composers on the project). Berlin is now collecting dust on his machine. I actually prefer the sound of those VSLs maybe! Definitely more balanced!


I strongly disagree regarding the balance. All the VSL winds are the same level as one another. The Alto flute in the low register is as loud as the oboe. BWW is really naturally balanced by comparison in my opinion


----------



## muziksculp

jon wayne said:


> I have BWW plus exp B, but for some reason I always end up using my Xsamples clarinet. I love the tone and dynamic range.



Interesting, the BWW and Exp. B have great sounding woodwinds. Does their Clarinet not sound good to you ?


----------



## purple

Bluemount Score said:


> Yet another woodwind library I didn't even hear of before


It has great tone but no legato.


----------



## Bluemount Score

purple said:


> It has great tone but no legato.


Legato is overrated


----------



## Dhruv

DarkShinryu said:


>



Even I was curious, so I reached out to CSS folks.
Expected release date: 15 Jan '21

Instruments:
Solo Flute
Flutes(x2)
Solo Oboe
Oboes(x2)
Solo Clarinet
Clarinets(x2)
Solo Bassoon
Bassoons(x2)
Solo Piccolo
Solo Cor Anglais
Solo Alto Flute
Solo Bass Clarinet
Solo Contrabassoon


----------



## Gmetcalfe

Toecutter said:


>


Hmmm “boomer” is not applicable to the 80s and 90s...now if we’re talking about the 60s and 70s (two truly great decades BTW) then “Boomer” is applicable (he says in a Boomer lecturing tone of voice...hahahahaha)


----------



## Teldex

muziksculp said:


> Anyone here have the older VSL woodwind libraries (Woodwinds I, Woodwinds II) , if Yes, do you still use them ?


I still use the VSL woodwinds (the originals, not the synchron-ized versions). This isn’t because I purchased them long ago and haven’t bothered to update to something newer/supposedly better, but because I personally believe they are as good as anything that has come out since. Yes, some of them I purchased years ago—a la carte—but recently I added more to my collection, and that was after doing quite a lot of research into the alternatives.

With Strings and Brass I combine instruments from different companies, but with woodwinds it’s more or less exclusively VSL.


----------



## jon wayne

purple said:


> It has great tone but no legato.


What is this?


----------



## purple

jon wayne said:


> What is this?


Glide mode


----------



## muziksculp

Teldex said:


> I still use the VSL woodwinds (the originals, not the synchron-ized versions). This isn’t because I purchased them long ago and haven’t bothered to update to something newer/supposedly better, but because I personally believe they are as good as anything that has come out since. Yes, some of them I purchased years ago—a la carte—but recently I added more to my collection, and that was after doing quite a lot of research into the alternatives.
> 
> With Strings and Brass I combine instruments from different companies, but with woodwinds it’s more or less exclusively VSL.



Hi @Teldex ,

I'm not surprised to read this. VSL Woodwinds sound wonderful. I have their VI-version Woodwinds II extended version, and have been thinking of getting Woodwinds I (Standard version). But I decided to wait for CSW before I add anything to my Woodwinds. I think Woodwinds I (Standard version) would be good enough for my needs. 

Do you think you will get CSW ? or stick to VSL ? and do you have both VSL Woodwinds I, and Woodwinds II, standard or extended ? 

Thanks for the feedback,
Muziksculp


----------



## CT

Teldex said:


> (the originals, not the synchron-ized versions).



You may want to actually upgrade though, as apparently the Sychronized version has improved crossfading over the original, something which turned me off to these otherwise really nice winds some years back.


----------



## Casiquire

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Teldex ,
> 
> I'm not surprised to read this. VSL Woodwinds sound wonderful. I have their VI-version Woodwinds II extended version, and have been thinking of getting Woodwinds I (Standard version). But I decided to wait for CSW before I add anything to my Woodwinds. I think Woodwinds I (Standard version) would be good enough for my needs.
> 
> Do you think you will get CSW ? or stick to VSL ? and do you have both VSL Woodwinds I, and Woodwinds II, standard or extended ?
> 
> Thanks for the feedback,
> Muziksculp


I'm a huge fan of their winds too but i do think they've been beat in some ways. For one thing i prefer the tone and smoothness of the dynamic layers in BWW and i think the same will happen again with CSW. I set them up in MIR Teldex and adjusted the dynamic range until it was as well matched as possible and there's still just a liveliness of expression and superiority of tone from BWW (in most but not necessarily all instruments). They're still top tier, they just aren't necessarily the best one in that tier


----------



## VivianaSings

Dhruv said:


> Even I was curious, so I reached out to CSS folks.
> Expected release date: 15 Jan '21
> 
> Instruments:
> Solo Flute
> Flutes(x2)
> Solo Oboe
> Oboes(x2)
> Solo Clarinet
> Clarinets(x2)
> Solo Bassoon
> Bassoons(x2)
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon


Hmmm... Just realized, no english horn. Usually that's a double for the second oboe.


----------



## ethormusic

VivianaSings said:


> Hmmm... Just realized, no english horn. Usually that's a double for the second oboe.


Cor Anglais is another name for English Horn.


----------



## VivianaSings

ethormusic said:


> Cor Anglais is another name for English Horn.


Lol well f**k me. I guess that's what I get for scoring regular stuff and not classical.


----------



## lettucehat

Dhruv said:


> Even I was curious, so I reached out to CSS folks.
> Expected release date: 15 Jan '21
> 
> Instruments:
> Solo Flute
> Flutes(x2)
> Solo Oboe
> Oboes(x2)
> Solo Clarinet
> Clarinets(x2)
> Solo Bassoon
> Bassoons(x2)
> Solo Piccolo
> Solo Cor Anglais
> Solo Alto Flute
> Solo Bass Clarinet
> Solo Contrabassoon



God I'm getting anxiety thinking about the window where CSW, MSS, HOOPUS, and Vista's intro periods might all potentially overlap ("Black Friday 2"), not to mention product announcements that may also happen by then (Voyage?), and I have just a week or two to game it all out. I think I need to make a flow chart before I lose my mind.


----------



## yiph2

lettucehat said:


> God I'm getting anxiety thinking about the window where CSW, MSS, HOOPUS, and Vista's intro periods might all potentially overlap ("Black Friday 2"), not to mention product announcements that may also happen by then (Voyage?), and I have just a week or two to game it all out. I think I need to make a flow chart before I lose my mind.


There's also Abbey Road stuff and also the Berlin to Sine stuff 😂


----------



## ChickenAndARoll

Anyone have any opinions on VSL Synchronized Woodwinds? I think I may pick that up to 1: help me hold over till CSW comes out 2: They may be nice to use in tandem with each other


----------



## lettucehat

yiph2 said:


> There's also Abbey Road stuff and also the Berlin to Sine stuff 😂


 Hm yeah... not so much anxiety about those, to be honest  In the case of Berlin to Sine, it's the a la carte thing that takes the pressure off.


----------



## muziksculp

Casiquire said:


> I'm a huge fan of their winds too but i do think they've been beat in some ways. For one thing i prefer the tone and smoothness of the dynamic layers in BWW and i think the same will happen again with CSW. I set them up in MIR Teldex and adjusted the dynamic range until it was as well matched as possible and there's still just a liveliness of expression and superiority of tone from BWW (in most but not necessarily all instruments). They're still top tier, they just aren't necessarily the best one in that tier



Hi @Casiquire ,

Thanks for your feedback. 

I'm also wondering if VSL Synchron Woodwinds Pro might be out during Q-1 of 2021, and how they will compare to BWW in SINE (when released), also to CSW, plus there might be some others.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

ChickenAndARoll said:


> Anyone have any opinions on VSL Synchronized Woodwinds? I think I may pick that up to 1: help me hold over till CSW comes out 2: They may be nice to use in tandem with each other



CSW is literally coming out in like two weeks per Alex.


----------



## rudi

purple said:


> It has great tone but no legato.


If we are talking about BBWW B it does have legato


----------



## pawelmorytko

Been using BWW soloists for exposed solo/lead lines, Albion one woodwinds for the ensembles/hall tone, and hollywoodwinds for the runs. Bit of everything for all kinds of things, but I still feel like I need a proper dedicated woodwinds library.


----------



## cqd

Dhruv said:


> Even I was curious, so I reached out to CSS folks.
> Expected release date: 15 Jan '21


Within a week of ewhoopus..
Like I said during the summer..
Typical..


----------



## Johnny

I heard that if we get to 200 pages in this thread, only then, will they finally release the Woodwinds!!!


----------



## I like music

Casiquire said:


> I strongly disagree regarding the balance. All the VSL winds are the same level as one another. The Alto flute in the low register is as loud as the oboe. BWW is really naturally balanced by comparison in my opinion


Fair point. I don't know them nearly as well as I know Berlin. There are articulation imbalances in BWW which I remember bugging me a lot.


----------



## Casiquire

I like music said:


> Fair point. I don't know them nearly as well as I know Berlin. There are articulation imbalances in BWW which I remember bugging me a lot.


That could well be the case and i might not even notice it since I'd mess with shorts separately from longs. I do know VSL would be flawlessly consistent there


----------



## ahorsewhocandrive

tried BWW for a winds chamber ensemble piece this weekend and the noise buildup - without a full orchestra to mask it - was as intense as though i'd put tape sims on each track


----------



## muziksculp

Looking forward to CSW, OT-BWW (SINE), and VSL Synchron Woodwinds Pro.


----------



## I like music

Casiquire said:


> That could well be the case and i might not even notice it since I'd mess with shorts separately from longs. I do know VSL would be flawlessly consistent there


Yep. There's one instrument I do want to buy, which is the oboe d'amore they have. Lovely tone. 

If I had the RAM and CPU I'd get Berlin back into my template as I feel they'd be a good partner to infinite, covering things infinite may not. 

All in all, I shouldn't need csw but then I think to myself "imagine one day having Berlin with all the articulations, infinite with all the control, and csw with all the (something)... You'd be unstoppable"

Lol reality is I've written about 3 mins of music on 2020 so I simply cannot justify another library.


----------



## Tremendouz

I like music said:


> Lol reality is I've written about 3 mins of music on 2020 so I simply cannot justify another library.


Why would you call me out like that, not nice!


----------



## I like music

Tremendouz said:


> Why would you call me out like that, not nice!


Lots of guilty faces in this thread I imagine haha


----------



## Teldex

muziksculp said:


> Do you think you will get CSW ? or stick to VSL ? and do you have both VSL Woodwinds I, and Woodwinds II, standard or extended ?


I have Woodwinds 1 and about half the instruments of Woodwinds 2 that I got as separate purchases over the years. I buy the extended (Full Library) versions because the more articulations the better. (I know what it’s like to try and get a library to render a particular phrase and despite its great overall sound it just doesn’t contain the articulation for the job.)

I can’t say whether I would buy the CSW library or not as I haven’t heard it yet. I also have to consider whether I am willing to go through the latency correction process that I went through when I bought their Cinematic Studio Strings.


----------



## Teldex

Mike T said:


> You may want to actually upgrade though, as apparently the Sychronized version has improved crossfading over the original, something which turned me off to these otherwise really nice winds some years back.


I tried the Synchronized versions and compared them alongside the originals of instruments I already owned. To my ears they weren’t the same so I had them refunded. Other folks prefer them. To me they are like an airbrushed photo: I can see why people like the flawless, smooth look, but some of the character is erased in the process.


----------



## muziksculp

Teldex said:


> I also have to consider whether I am willing to go through the latency correction process that I went through when I bought their Cinematic Studio Strings.


I know what you mean, hopefully CSW won't be a pain to work with even if it has a slight latency for legatos, but having a major latency while playing woodwinds would make them less attractive to me as well.


----------



## muziksculp

I'm not a fan of any VSL-Synchronized libraries, that's the reason I didn't bother buying any of their Synchronized woodwinds, or any of the other Synchronized libraries. 

I'm really looking forward to VSL Synchron Woodwinds Pro. Hopefully they will release it during Q1-2021. Pure speculation.


----------



## purple

muziksculp said:


> I know what you mean, hopefully CSW won't be a pain to work with even if it has a slight latency for legatos, but having a major latency while playing woodwinds would make them less attractive to me as well.


Well... Woodwinds can't really portamento so I seriously doubt there will be much delay if at all. Brass players can also kind of slide between intervals as well but with woodwinds it's one note or the other with not much of a transition aside from key clicks and the air being redirected. (there are special techniques like clarinet gliss for example but this will likely not be a part of the legato patch if it's there at all.)


----------



## Beans

Before Cinematic Studio Percussion arrives, which orchestral percussion library does the groupthink believe will most easily blend with CSS, CSB, and CSW?


----------



## purple

Beans said:


> Before Cinematic Studio Percussion arrives, which orchestral percussion library does the groupthink believe will most easily blend with CSS, CSB, and CSW?


Not hard to mix percussion... Whatever you like the sound of.


----------



## DarkShinryu

Beans said:


> Before Cinematic Studio Percussion arrives, which orchestral percussion library does the groupthink believe will most easily blend with CSS, CSB, and CSW?


Personally i use a combination of cineperc and hollywood percussion diamond.


----------



## Noc

DarkShinryu said:


> Personally i use a combination of cineperc and hollywood percussion diamond.


Same. Mostly CinePerc, though I prefer HOP’s bass drum.
Also some Stormdrum 3 when I want taikos – its selection puts most other libraries to shame.


----------



## Beans

purple said:


> Not hard to mix percussion... Whatever you like the sound of.


I strongly disagree. In some cases, percussion can be more difficult to mix than other instruments. The proximity of the mics or long tails can create some pretty big hurdles. A snare that was mic'd up the player's nose simply can't be pushed back, and the bloom in something like Abbey Road One is always going to exist in the recording.

So, back to my original question, it's more about what sits well out of the box.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Beans said:


> Before Cinematic Studio Percussion arrives, which orchestral percussion library does the groupthink believe will most easily blend with CSS, CSB, and CSW?


This very much depends on the context for me...

Mostly NI Symphony Series Percussion and BBCSO Percussion for traditional orchestral stuff. Covers it very well.

For Epic / Cinematic / Hybrid... well, Damage, Metropolis Ark Percussion and some bits and pieces from basically everywhere.


----------



## makimakimusic

Spitfire Percussion mostly. Sometime I use stuff from Strezov Orchestral Percussion.
For Epic stuff, mainly Damage and other stuff from 8Dio.
I find myself using Kontakt Factory chrom percs very often.


----------



## wst3

Beans said:


> So, back to my original question, it's more about what sits well out of the box.


I used to use a variety of libraries for percussion, and I still turn to a couple of the old 8Dio and SoundIron libraries, but mostly I use Toontrack Orchestral Percussion these days. It is extremely flexible, and plays well with others.

I probably would not shell out for Superior3 if I had no other use for it, but since it is my first call drum plugin for everything else I figured why not try the Orchestral Percussion library. And I have been quite happy with it.

Absent that I think you have a choice of cobbing together a collection from a variety of sources and libraries - which can work, or choosing a single developer, in which case I'd be hard pressed to dismiss CinePerc (disclaimer - one of only two of their libraries I do not own).


----------



## Tremendouz

I would imagine hollywood percussion (diamond) mixes well with CSS and CSB due to being recorded in a relatively small space, anyone using that particular combo?


----------



## Ashermusic

Tremendouz said:


> I would imagine hollywood percussion (diamond) mixes well with CSS and CSB due to being recorded in a relatively small space, anyone using that particular combo?


I do sometimes. Works fine.


----------



## filipjonathan

My main percussion lib is True Strike 1 and I haven't had any problems blending it with other stuff. Although to be honest, I don't use organic percussion that much.


----------



## FelixDeepTerror

Teldex said:


> I have Woodwinds 1 and about half the instruments of Woodwinds 2 that I got as separate purchases over the years. I buy the extended (Full Library) versions because the more articulations the better. (I know what it’s like to try and get a library to render a particular phrase and despite its great overall sound it just doesn’t contain the articulation for the job.)
> 
> I can’t say whether I would buy the CSW library or not as I haven’t heard it yet. I also have to consider whether I am willing to go through the latency correction process that I went through when I bought their Cinematic Studio Strings.


How did you "correct" the CSS latency?


----------



## Kony

FelixDeepTerror said:


> How did you "correct" the CSS latency?


@NoamL created a script - details available here:



https://vi-control.net/community/threads/free-permanent-fix-for-css-legato.71972/



@Ihnoc also has a solution in this thread:





CSS (Cinematic Studios) Control Panel - CSS/CSSS/CSB/CSW legato delay solution + other features (1.8, now with Winds!)


Hi, This community is grand and has provided so many useful things for me. I have been tooling with a script to automatically offset the notes in CSS, based on what articulation you have set and I would like to share this with you. A control panel for Cinematic Studio Strings, Cinematic Studio...




vi-control.net


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

what's going on? Percussion discussion??

Guess CSW has become boring.


----------



## Tremendouz

DarkestShadow said:


> what's going on? Percussion discussion??
> 
> Guess CSW has become boring.


The more actual info we have, the less we feel like speculating. Facts are boring!


----------



## constaneum

DarkestShadow said:


> what's going on? Percussion discussion??
> 
> Guess CSW has become boring.


Coz we now know it'll be out 15 Jan 2021. 2 more weeks to go.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Tremendouz said:


> I would imagine hollywood percussion (diamond) mixes well with CSS and CSB due to being recorded in a relatively small space, anyone using that particular combo?


Yep. Typically blending CSS/CSB with Hollywood Orch and even CineSamples. All decent "scoring stage" options.


----------



## Lionel Schmitt

constaneum said:


> Coz we now know it'll be out 15 Jan 2021. 2 more weeks to go.


Isn't that just an estimate?
I know it's a date but still... can't take any CS estimates seriously


----------



## constaneum

Well. It's Jan 2021 for sure ? Haha


----------



## RogiervG

DarkestShadow said:


> Isn't that just an estimate?
> I know it's a date but still... can't take any CS estimates seriously


Well, if it's not.. we'll start speculating again


----------



## Kony

DarkestShadow said:


> Isn't that just an estimate?
> I know it's a date but still... can't take any CS estimates seriously


----------



## FelixDeepTerror

Kony said:


>


When CSW finally arrives...


----------



## FelixDeepTerror

I definitely did not spend 15 minutes on that...


----------



## Bluemount Score

FelixDeepTerror said:


> I definitely did not spend 15 minutes on that...


Could have been worse!


----------



## Vladimir Bulaev

FelixDeepTerror said:


> When CSW finally arrives...


This was to be published when CSW really came out!


----------



## Bluemount Score

I heard it's coming next week


----------



## Casiquire

FelixDeepTerror said:


> I definitely did not spend 15 minutes on that...


It was worth every second!


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

my deadline is the 16th of Jan.

I am starting to panic.


----------



## ansthenia

I just got an email from Alex saying he got really drunk and deleted all the work he's done on CSW in a game of truth or dare.

Oh well.


----------



## Kubler

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> my deadline is the 16th of Jan.
> 
> I am starting to panic.


For real though, I've wanted to kick off a personal project of mine since forever now, but there's no way I put any other woodwinds than CSW into the template. So I'm just sitting there waiting for january 15th like


----------



## Rob Elliott

ansthenia said:


> I just got an email from Alex saying he got really drunk and deleted all the work he's done on CSW in a game of truth or dare.
> 
> Oh well.


rebook the sessions - he's got all the learning curve behind him - it will only take a month to release.


----------



## Kurosawa

Is the 15th officially mentioned as a release date?


----------



## Bluemount Score

Kurosawa said:


> Is the 15th officially mentioned as a release date?


People here mention many official release dates. It is not


----------



## ka00

I thought today would be the day, what with it being 11th day of Christmas. 11 pipers piping and all that.


----------



## Noc

Kurosawa said:


> Is the 15th officially mentioned as a release date?


IIRC, a user previously said they emailed Alex and received a reply stating he was aiming for Jan. 15. There’s no other independent confirmation and certainly nothing official, though, so we’ll see.


----------



## purple

Noc said:


> IIRC, a user previously said they emailed Alex and received a reply stating he was aiming for Jan. 15. There’s no other independent confirmation and certainly nothing official, though, so we’ll see.


He did say they were just waiting on NI's end... So I doubt it's far off and seems unlikely there could be further delays at this point.


----------



## Rob Elliott

As history has proven, It will just 'show up' one day.


----------



## Kony

Rob Elliott said:


> As history has proven, It will just 'show up' one day.


----------



## Noc

Has Alex said (or anyone else heard) what the expected size of the library will be in GB?


----------



## Mark Schmieder

Already 116 pages and it's the first I've seen this thread. I don't dare read it or I will automatically be let down no matter how good the product is. Maybe the biggest hype of anything in forum history?


----------



## Kony

Mark Schmieder said:


> Already 116 pages and it's the first I've seen this thread. I don't dare read it or I will automatically be let down no matter how good the product is. Maybe the biggest hype of anything in forum history?


If you want to cut to the chase, it's possible to search this thread just for posts from Alex W 

EDIT: Here's a link to the two recent posts from Alex W

https://vi-control.net/community/search/513781/


----------



## Mark Schmieder

That's funny; I clicked and it said "Oops, we ran in to some problems".  

Perhaps this has all been a sly joke...


----------



## Kony

It works for me - must be specific to my account? If the link doesn't work, it's easy to do the search


----------



## Tinesaeriel

Mark Schmieder said:


> That's funny; I clicked and it said "Oops, we ran in to some problems".
> 
> Perhaps this has all been a sly joke...


Ask, and ye shall receive: :3






Cinematic Studio Woodwinds


With 53 pages before the library or even a teaser of it is released, is this the most anticipated library in sample history? Or are we all just a little goofy? Why not both




vi-control.net


----------



## Kony

And here's the other post 






Cinematic Studio Woodwinds


What? Got it 2 days ago when the website lite up. Where have you been? Moments like these make me miss an "angry" type of reaction button




vi-control.net





EDIT: @creativeforge the post preview (above) is from another post - ditto with the post before mine. Might be a bug from the forum upgrade? Clicking the link works fine though.


----------



## EricValette

Hi,

Maybe this has already been said in the course of this so long thread, but here is the response from support today regarding the price of CSW when I asked them if I could get a discount being a CSB owner:

_"Thanks for getting in touch. Yes, on the day that the woodwinds library is released you will automatically receive an email with your discount coupon which will bring the price of CSW down to _*US$279*_* (excl. tax)*. We're hoping that the release will be in the next few weeks."_


----------



## ricoderks

EricValette said:


> Hi,
> 
> Maybe this has already been said in the course of this so long thread, but here is the response from support today regarding the price of CSW when I asked them if I could get a discount being a CSB owner:
> 
> _"Thanks for getting in touch. Yes, on the day that the woodwinds library is released you will automatically receive an email with your discount coupon which will bring the price of CSW down to _*US$279*_* (excl. tax)*. We're hoping that the release will be in the next few weeks."_


What a great deal that is!


----------



## EricValette

ricoderks said:


> What a great deal that is!


Indeed... it seems to be a totally no brainer deal!


----------



## Tremendouz

EricValette said:


> Hi,
> 
> Maybe this has already been said in the course of this so long thread, but here is the response from support today regarding the price of CSW when I asked them if I could get a discount being a CSB owner:
> 
> _"Thanks for getting in touch. Yes, on the day that the woodwinds library is released you will automatically receive an email with your discount coupon which will bring the price of CSW down to _*US$279*_* (excl. tax)*. We're hoping that the release will be in the next few weeks."_


So I guess the MSRP is something like $399


----------



## constaneum

EricValette said:


> Hi,
> 
> Maybe this has already been said in the course of this so long thread, but here is the response from support today regarding the price of CSW when I asked them if I could get a discount being a CSB owner:
> 
> _"Thanks for getting in touch. Yes, on the day that the woodwinds library is released you will automatically receive an email with your discount coupon which will bring the price of CSW down to _*US$279*_* (excl. tax)*. We're hoping that the release will be in the next few weeks."_


Next few weeks....probably looking at end of Jan or early Feb then.


----------



## Kony




----------



## Bluemount Score

I'm going into hibernation, wake me up when it's released


----------



## Robert_G

EricValette said:


> _We're hoping that the release will be in the next few weeks."_


He’s said this exact same response dozens of times now week after week after week. He started telling us it would be winter 2020....then late winter....then spring....then hopefully mid year.....and so on and so on blah blah blah...etc...etc. I wonder how many VI members have died since his original planned release date for CSW.

Lets start facing reality. Alex himself has no freaking clue when this is coming out.


----------



## unclecheeks

Hopefully there will also be a complete orchestra bundle discount for those of us who don’t own any CS titles but might want to get all 4 in one go.


----------



## BassClef

I do not believe CS has ever done a bundle. After you buy one, all subsequent ones that you buy get a loyalty discount. They will sometimes do a sale where you get one a discount on the first one. I bought strings, solo strings, brass and piano all at the same time when they had such a sale.


----------



## shponglefan

unclecheeks said:


> Hopefully there will also be a complete orchestra bundle discount for those of us who don’t own any CS titles but might want to get all 4 in one go.



That's sort of how things currently work on their site. If you go to order one library, they immediately offer you discounts on the others.


----------



## Grizzlymv

I wonder if the discount is based on whether you had any Cinematic Studio lib already, or will vary depending on how many you already have. For instance, if someone just have 1 lib vs someone who has the whole set (CSS, CSB, CSS, CSPiano) is the discount will the same for both? I don't remember how it was for CSB.


----------



## unclecheeks

shponglefan said:


> That's sort of how things currently work on their site. If you go to order one library, they immediately offer you discounts on the others.


True, but that means someone who wants the full package of 4 would still have to purchase one at full price. I think those of us who might be reckless enough to go for the whole shebang should be rewarded more handsomely. 🙂


----------



## I like music

unclecheeks said:


> True, but that means someone who wants the full package of 4 would still have to purchase one at full price. I think those of us who might be reckless enough to go for the whole shebang should be rewarded more handsomely. 🙂


Haha, you'll be super pleased when you buy the whole thing. The flipside is that you get the luxury of going for the full shebang because a number of others took a risk in the early days! I find their policy quite fair, all in all.


Or even if not, at least it is simple. I love the confusing discussions around 8dio's deals (and EW too!)


----------



## unclecheeks

I like music said:


> Or even if not, at least it is simple. I love the confusing discussions around 8dio's deals (and EW too!)


Why I won't touch Adagio/Adagietto/Anthology/Agitato/Arigato demos with a 10-foot pole. I'm sure there's lovely stuff in there, but my OCD can't take it.


----------



## cqd

So..are we on for next Friday so?..


----------



## Lazeez

unclecheeks said:


> Why I won't touch Adagio/Adagietto/Anthology/Agitato/Arigato demos with a 10-foot pole. I'm sure there's lovely stuff in there, but my OCD can't take it.


I hear their Arigato sounds lovely but a bit roboto :D Just kidding. I own a couple of them and they do sound lovely.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

Why is this thread only 118 pages? Doesn't anybody care?


----------



## jeremyr

Maybe the real woodwinds are the friends we make along the way


----------



## boxheadboy50

jeremyr said:


> Maybe the real woodwinds are the friends we make along the way


Okay, I think this is the first post in my time on VI:C that has ever made me laugh out loud


----------



## rottoy

jeremyr said:


> Maybe the real woodwinds are the friends we make along the way


Maybe the real woodwinds are the reeds we made along the way*


----------



## Krayh

I'm wondering what people are going to do with their time when itts finally released 😂


----------



## Bluemount Score

Krayh said:


> I'm wondering what people are going to do with their time when itts finally released 😂


Make lot's of great music, because CSW is the only reason they (and me) don't already do so


----------



## Tremendouz

Krayh said:


> I'm wondering what people are going to do with their time when itts finally released 😂


Start a thread about Cinematic Studio Percu- nvm it already exists.


----------



## purple

Tremendouz said:


> Start a thread about Cinematic Studio Percu- nvm it already exists.


2 of them in fact!


----------



## Bluemount Score

purple said:


> 2 of them in fact!


----------



## Marsen

Krayh said:


> I'm wondering what people are going to do with their time when itts finally released 😂


Asking for the percussion.


----------



## Rob Elliott

Bluemount Score said:


>



Oh man perfect -1 track so I can sing like Tom Jones in the shower. it's gonna be so good!


----------



## Jaap

Asking for a friend. Is it released yet? 

Serious note: happy with the update Alex posted before Christmas and looking forward to see it coming when it's done, whether that is this week, this month, next month etc


----------



## purple




----------



## philthevoid

I remember a time long ago (on page 1) when someone said "See you all in page 19."
Oh how we laughed.


----------



## lucor

Has there been any word by Alex if CSW will already include the new legato engine, that's also supposed to come to CSS? Very curious how it will work.


----------



## yiph2

lucor said:


> Has there been any word by Alex if CSW will already include the new legato engine, that's also supposed to come to CSS? Very curious how it will work.


John said all the improvements to be made for CSS would be there for CSW


----------



## muziksculp

yiph2 said:


> John said all the improvements to be made for CSS would be there for CSW


Cool. But who is John ?


----------



## ethormusic

muziksculp said:


> Cool. But who is John ?


You would have had to bother Alex Wallbank and team enough times via email about CSW these past few years to earn a response from John.


----------



## muziksculp

ethormusic said:


> You would have had to bother Alex Wallbank and team enough times via email about CSW these past few years to earn a response from John.


Ok.. Now I know who is John.


----------



## Rob Elliott

yiph2 said:


> John said all the improvements to be made for CSS would be there for CSW


'Improvements'???? Man, I hope it doesn't get 'sanitized' so it's easy to play in parts. The way it is now is a feature in my mind - so far as final results.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Rob Elliott said:


> 'Improvements'???? Man, I hope it doesn't get 'sanitized' so it's easy to play in parts. The way it is now is a feature in my mind - so far as final results.


Yeah I am also very concerned all the moaning regarding timing might have convinced Alex to degrade his product to please them.


----------



## purple

What "improvements" are they talking about?


----------



## Casiquire

I highly doubt they'd downgrade their own product. If anything, make a consistent number of MS of delay and a global switch between immediate playing and delayed should pretty much please everyone, right?


----------



## Tremendouz

Casiquire said:


> I highly doubt they'd downgrade their own product. If anything, make a consistent number of MS of delay and a global switch between immediate playing and delayed should pretty much please everyone, right?


I'd love this for all articulations, shorts included. Just nudge everything back the same amount and boom.

Split-point legato would make this even nicer if possible to implement (no need to overlap notes, just have them quantized to grid so that one ends where next one starts)


----------



## NathanTiemeyer

muziksculp said:


> Cool. But who is John ?


John? He's a Cinematic Studio Series legend. It's not a story VI Control users would tell you.


----------



## Trash Panda

purple said:


> 2 of them in fact!


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

NathanTiemeyer said:


> John? He's a Cinematic Studio Series legend. It's not a story VI Control users would tell you.


You DARE to ask about John? NO CSW FOR YOU!


----------



## GingerMaestro

JOHN !


----------



## FelixDeepTerror

I now have official release date from CS employee: February 29


----------



## Toecutter

FelixDeepTerror said:


> I now have official release date from CS employee: February 29


Thanks for the update, see you in 3 years!


----------



## ysnyvz

Toecutter said:


> Thanks for the update, see you in 3 years!


----------



## ethormusic

Introducing Cinematic Studio Legends

Instruments: John
Articulations: John
RAM Requirements: John
CPU Requirements: John
Storage Requirements: John


----------



## Fry777

Meanwhile, John answering the countless support tickets about CSW's release :


----------



## Reid Rosefelt

From now on, all questions about the release of CSW should go to the John.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Who is John? I only know Alex W. (and "his small team")


----------



## GingerMaestro

FelixDeepTerror said:


> I now have official release date from CS employee: February 29


Is this genuine or speculation ? Thanks


----------



## Bluemount Score

GingerMaestro said:


> Is this genuine or speculation ? Thanks


Hint: There might or might not be a February 29th (this year)


----------



## Jaap




----------



## Mark Schmieder

Hmm, not quite as full of an instrument set for Berlin as I would have expected. Oh well, I'm still perfectly happy with VSL Woodwinds.


----------



## court++

unclecheeks said:


> True, but that means someone who wants the full package of 4 would still have to purchase one at full price. I think those of us who might be reckless enough to go for the whole shebang should be rewarded more handsomely. 🙂


Here's a pro-tip, you can get a 20% discount if you register for the education discount. You only need to be registered for one class at an institution to qualify. Afterwards, you will still receive the $279 price tag when buying the other libraries. So go take that cooking class or something haha.


----------



## ethormusic

court++ said:


> Here's a pro-tip, you can get a 20% discount if you register for the education discount. You only need to be registered for one class at an institution to qualify. Afterwards, you will still receive the $279 price tag when buying the other libraries. So go take that cooking class or something haha.


Now that I think about it, I probably did get CSS originally at the education pricing, since I was still in grad school at that time. They even offered Cinematic Studio Piano for like $30? (which I decided not to purchase) if I bought it at the same time as CSS.


----------



## Kurosawa

court++ said:


> Here's a pro-tip, you can get a 20% discount if you register for the education discount. You only need to be registered for one class at an institution to qualify. Afterwards, you will still receive the $279 price tag when buying the other libraries. So go take that cooking class or something haha.


Wasn't educational something like 30%?


----------



## filipjonathan

Kurosawa said:


> Wasn't educational something like 30%?


It was, I was about to say it.


----------



## court++

Kurosawa said:


> Wasn't educational something like 30%?


It's 20% for part time and 30% for full time.

The pro-tip is mainly for people who may not be in school but want to take advantage of the discount. Sign up for a community college class you'd like and boom, discount. Spitfire and Orchestral Tools also have discounts.


----------



## stodesign12

I almost bought Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds last month, but finally decided to wait for CSW... I hope I made the correct decision! I can't wait to have it!


----------



## Eptesicus

stodesign12 said:


> I almost bought Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds last month, but finally decided to wait for CSW... I hope I made the correct decision! I can't wait to have it!



You have made the correct decision. I have little doubt based on previous products and the demos we have heard, that this will be very good.


----------



## muziksculp

I'm a bit worried that the WWW might crash during the download period of CSW. Given the expected download frenzy that's going to happen.


----------



## Tremendouz

muziksculp said:


> I'm a bit worried that the WWW might crash during the download period of CSW. Given the expected download frenzy that's going to happen.


I mean it can't be worse than eastwest installation center download speed. Downloaded some of hollywood orchestra yesterday and it felt like I was back in 2010 😄


----------



## muziksculp

Tremendouz said:


> I mean it can't be worse than eastwest installation center download speed. Downloaded some of hollywood orchestra yesterday and it felt like I was back in 2010 😄


Haha.. I wish them good luck with Hoopus downloads. I can see a drama building up already.


----------



## Bluemount Score

Tremendouz said:


> I mean it can't be worse than eastwest installation center download speed. Downloaded some of hollywood orchestra yesterday and it felt like I was back in 2010 😄


Downloading was one thing, unpacking felt like it took twice as much


----------



## Rob Elliott

muziksculp said:


> I'm a bit worried that the WWW might crash during the download period of CSW. Given the expected download frenzy that's going to happen.


Yep - servers are going to crash. Alex - might I make a suggestion that 'loyal' previous owners get a 1/2 day head start to DL. All kidding aside.


----------



## Robert_G

stodesign12 said:


> I almost bought Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds last month, but finally decided to wait for CSW... I hope I made the correct decision! I can't wait to have it!


It depends. How many years do your hearing and eyesight have left? I’ve never seen a release of anything drag on so long and painfully past it’s original planned release date.


----------



## Kurosawa

All the waiting will be worth, I trust Alex and his team!


----------



## jneebz




----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

Imagine if @Kony decided not to pick up CSW at release


----------



## lettucehat

You can really sign up for an unrelated basket weaving class at community college, and what, upload verification that you're in some kind of class?


----------



## ansthenia

Awww crap, I forgot to cancel all my porn subscriptions before they auto-renewed. I won't be able to afford CSW on release, make sure you all post plenty of demos and stuff!


----------



## Kony

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Imagine if @Kony decided not to pick up CSW at release


Haven't you heard, I already have a complimentary copy for starting this thread


----------



## Beans

Kony said:


> Haven't you heard, I already have a complimentary copy for starting this thread


You know you're the worst person at VI-Control, right?


----------



## FelixDeepTerror

stodesign12 said:


> I almost bought Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds last month, but finally decided to wait for CSW... I hope I made the correct decision! I can't wait to have it!


Duuuhuhudeee you saved yourself a big throwaway. The legato on SSW is very bad. We'll all wait for CSW together. Kumbaya


----------



## court++

lettucehat said:


> You can really sign up for an unrelated basket weaving class at community college, and what, upload verification that you're in some kind of class?


Yes. I was signed up for an unrelated Math class. Add to this, you can also use those discounts with other libraries from a few other companies, saves you a bundle after all is said and done.


----------



## Tinesaeriel

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


----------



## Noc

Tinesaeriel said:


> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



Oh HELLO


----------



## stodesign12

YEEAAAH BOOIII


----------



## Kony

Yay!!!


----------



## Mike Greene

Golly, only 200 pages? Disappointing to see so little interest in Alex's woodwinds library. 

This is a loooong thread, so to make things easier for people looking for discussion of the actual release, I've spun off the posts starting with Alex's announcement into a new thread, here:





Cinematic Studio Woodwinds - SPINOFF AFTER RELEASE


Hi everyone, you heard it here first. :) CSW is here. No, really, it is! We’re sending out coupons to all of our customers, so please check your spam folder if it’s not in your inbox within the next couple of hours. If it’s not in either of those places, please contact us via the support button...




vi-control.net


----------

