# Soundpaint discussion - Sample Talk edition



## Evans (Oct 28, 2021)

Just curious what people think of it, outside of the Commercial Announcements threads.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 28, 2021)

I'm sure sound design guys and synth heads are interested... or shall we say they are "very exited!"
Me? I'm into real natural sounds so I'm really like "it does what? with this? yea... ok... I guess "


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## Evans (Oct 28, 2021)

Honestly, I'm just antsy while waiting for AMA 1 to download from The Amazonic (40% off sale), because I don't have a lot of evening time to just _play_ these days, and I wanna _play_.

Figured I'd see if there'd be any amusement to gather about Soundpaint. So far, what I'm reading (not just here) is that the UI is pretty clean but confusing without a manual; the velocity layer marketing hoopla so far feels like marketing hoopla (for organic instruments, at least); and CPU/RAM usage seems to be fine.

EDIT: Ugh, now it's gotta install after downloading. Yeah, still talking about AMA 1.


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## Trash Panda (Oct 28, 2021)

I look forward to the clashing of the Omnisphere vs SoundPaint fanbases. It’ll be more interesting than the usual Xbox vs PlayStation arguments.


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## Casiquire (Oct 28, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> I'm sure sound design guys and synth heads are interested... or shall we say they are "very exited!"
> Me? I'm into real natural sounds so I'm really like "it does what? with this? yea... ok... I guess "


That's sort of where i am too. They played coy with what it even is, which immediately turned me off, and now as we learn more it seems like it genuinely has huge potential but it's not necessarily being used to bring greater realism but rather for sound design. Interesting, just not catering to me, which i believe is the greatest sin imaginable


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## filipjonathan (Oct 28, 2021)

I played around with the 1928 piano a bit and while it does sound nice, I don't see how it's better than Noire, for example. Sound design stuff aside, although, Noire also has tons of cool sounding presets. What I'm most interested in is Juno 60!! I'm on a hunt for the best sounding 60/106 emulation so I'm really looking forward to hearing that one!


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 28, 2021)

From a purely sound design perspective, Omnisphere will have more possibilities due to being a true synth + sample player, while Soundpaint is a sample player. Both allow you morph between multiple layers of sound sources, both have effects, both have arps / gates, mod matrix, etc. Not to say one sounds better than the other though.

I have not heard anything in playing with the piano that highlights the significance of the velocity morphing - it sounds like other pianos (and more so, not as good as some other ones I have). Perhaps that's just my ears though.

I also would not want to buy a "sample pack" of a synth (not matter how deeply sampled) - you will be greatly limited compared to what an emulation of the synth can do. Sampling a synth is essentially sampling a set of presets from the synth. Soundpaint does allow for morphing between presets, so that's nice, but something like the Softube emulation would still be my preference.

My 2 cents so far.


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## Evans (Oct 28, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I also would not want to buy a "sample pack" of a synth (not matter how deeply sampled)


This makes me think of something: while I don't have it, I totally get what Audio Ollie was going for with Scoring Synths. I'm just not willing to sacrifice the SSD space compared with the more "natural" alternative.


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## filipjonathan (Oct 28, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I also would not want to buy a "sample pack" of a synth (not matter how deeply sampled) - you will be greatly limited compared to what an emulation of the synth can do. Sampling a synth is essentially sampling a set of presets from the synth. Soundpaint does allow for morphing between presets, so that's nice, but something like the Softube emulation would still be my preference.


I would actually love to hear Troels' comment on this cause I'm also interested in the way the synths work.


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## Captain Oveur (Oct 28, 2021)

I tried to avoid the pre-release hype building and get a clean first impression. Some choice quotes from https://soundpaint.com/pages/technology



> designed to offer the highest degree of fidelity and realism possible for digital music instruments





> can sound completely realistic or synthetic


Fidelity: okay the velocity layers are smoothed out. That's cool.
Realism: The samples are... better?



> designed for fast and intuitive music making. Overall workflow is approximately 40% faster


UI looks fine to me, but learning curves can only be so shallow, and once overcome does it really matter that much? The big highlights appear to be fast load times and the morphing tech.



> The effects suite contains dozens of different analog models to augment your instruments


Pretty much table stakes at this point. I personally don't value "analog" that highly by itself.


> behaves. feels. like a _real instrument_


For some definition of "real instrument" i.e. something played with a keyboard.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 28, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> They played coy with what it even is, which immediately turned me off


100%

This sampled piano with 127 velocity layers (that alone is nonsense, but lets say it is) which loads in 94ms?
With no technical info everything Troels said in the walkthru for me sounded like "bla bla bla words bla bla radio gaga bla bla".


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## Casiquire (Oct 28, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> 100%
> 
> This sampled piano with 127 velocity layers (that alone is nonsense, but lets say it is) which loads in 94ms?
> With no technical info everything Troels said in the walkthru for me sounded like "bla bla bla words bla bla radio gaga bla bla".


To be fair the video of that piano did sound really good! But i can't stand vague hype. Does your product stand up on its own merits? Then tell me about it.

Soundpaint does seem to deliver at least


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## Bman70 (Oct 28, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> I'm sure sound design guys and synth heads are interested..


Nope not really. I watched a few videos out of curiosity and heard like hyena barks with a rhythmic gate applied. Then some strange noise effects that I couldn't see myself using musically. And a normal sounding VI piano. 

I'm not really into spending time to research libraries these days. I like to buy stuff that has a clear price and purpose and be done. But I'm sure user reports will trickle in and it will become clearer how people are using this.


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## filipjonathan (Oct 28, 2021)

Hendrixon said:


> 100%
> 
> This sampled piano with 127 velocity layers (that alone is nonsense, but lets say it is) which loads in 94ms?


I did ask about that, like how is that possible if some layers weren't even recorded. Troels replied that "creating what's not recorded is not possible...yet." So that just proves that Soundpaint plays with the volume of the velocity layers in order to blend them. At least that's what I think.


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## hoxclab (Oct 28, 2021)

I uninstalled it in about 30 minutes after fiddling around with it. The UI is not my cup of tea reminds me of Ableton Live and I'm really not a fan of that look. I will stick with Spectrasonics. I really only use Omnisphere nowadays and FL's stock VSTs, don't need anything more really.


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## sostenuto (Oct 28, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I look forward to the clashing of the Omnisphere vs SoundPaint fanbases. It’ll be more interesting than the usual Xbox vs PlayStation arguments.


Was seriously feeling this as well. Very short time now, and revered Spectrasonics Sonic EXtensions is non-event. 
EP surely lost his way down EDM road. ( YT _ respected, older dude now, paid artists, boring )
Can usually add (3) Guru ( w/Multis ) Libs for same as (1) '''' EXtension, + with UNIFY, enjoy far more. _ imho _


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## Evans (Oct 28, 2021)

I should probably finally buy that Zebra thing, eh?


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## sostenuto (Oct 28, 2021)

Evans said:


> I should probably finally buy that Zebra thing, eh?


Ha!  🤷🏻


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## Evans (Oct 28, 2021)

I've been buying a lot of real, tangible, acoustic instruments again, so maybe I buy a real zebra.


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## hoxclab (Oct 28, 2021)

Evans said:


> I should probably finally buy that Zebra thing, eh?


I'd advise against it. I owned Zebra for nine months and then sold it. I had Dark Zebra as well. For the genre of music I produce I didn't really find it fitting but your needs might be different. If you're into scoring or orchestral compositions you might like it. Personally I really only liked the weird noises in it. It's fun to program but I think you can achieve faster results in something like Omnisphere than Zebra.


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## rrichard63 (Oct 28, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> as we learn more it seems like it genuinely has huge potential but it's not necessarily being used to bring greater realism but rather for sound design.


The potential for greater realism is also there. In one of the other threads, Troels explained why they are rolling out the sound design stuff first (mostly - the 1928 piano is an exception) and leaving the unprocessed orchestral and jazz instruments for later.

I'm not sure that Soundpaint is going to be a better VI for realism than Kontakt or Falcon or Halion.(Troels has said that it won't, although he hasn't said why not.) And I'm not sure that it's going to be a better VI for synthesis and sample-based sound design than Omnisphere or any of dozens of others. But I feel somewhat confident that it's going to be a better melding of the two that anything else so far. The only thing I'm aware of that even comes close to covering the whole continuum is Falcon.

EDIT: If Spectrasonics's new line of Sonic Expansions grows over time, it might also compete for the title of best integration of sampling and synthesis. But for the moment, the Sonic Expansions rollout is being eclipsed by Soundpaint.


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## biomuse (Oct 28, 2021)

filipjonathan said:


> I did ask about that, like how is that possible if some layers weren't even recorded. Troels replied that "creating what's not recorded is not possible...yet." So that just proves that Soundpaint plays with the volume of the velocity layers in order to blend them. At least that's what I think.


I think it’s a bit more than that. From what I’ve heard so far, with the morphing demonstrations and the marketing, my best guess is that Soundpaint uses a real time convolution-based engine. The file format segments the samples at zero point crossings with amenable slope, solves for minimum time stretching to achieve consistent lengths between layers, generates a lookup table with this info plus segment amplitudes. It can then RT convolve across these windowed segments based on input velocity, yielding phase-coherent blends of the layers. RT convolution is plenty fast at this point, fast enough for a polyphonic instrument where all the setup is already done in the file format, and regardless of how many layers are in the instrument you’re always convoluting at most two of them per voice.


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## sostenuto (Oct 28, 2021)

.... may be interesting to compare ( estimated ) sales volume / piggie bank .... maybe Jan/Feb 2022 ?
Personal hard-earned , _simoleans , _go to Soundpoint.


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## Troels Folmann (Oct 28, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> The potential for greater realism is also there. In one of the other threads, Troels explained why they are rolling out the sound design stuff first (mostly - the 1928 piano is an exception) and leaving the unprocessed orchestral and jazz instruments for later.
> 
> I'm not sure that Soundpaint is going to be a better VI for realism than Kontakt or Falcon or Halion.(Troels has said that it won't, although he hasn't said why not.) And I'm not sure that it's going to be a better VI for synthesis and sample-based sound design than Omnisphere or any of dozens of others. But I feel somewhat confident that it's going to be a better melding of the two that anything else so far. The only thing I'm aware of that even comes close to covering the whole continuum is Falcon.


I probably should refrain from commenting too much on this thread, since we got our commercial thread going. But I do not recall making such a statement. SP is all about pushing and pursuing realism. We only have one Sound Design release (Beautiful Noises) and all the other instruments are all attempts at creating a new sonic super-realism. The 808 is over 16.000 RTS (Real-Time Samples).

But here is where I would make the distinction. Soundpaint is 1 day old. Kontakt is 20 years old.

Where are we gonna be say ... 2 years from now?

8Dio will continue to exclusively support Kontakt, since Kontakt has shown its longevity across the market - and SP allows me to create an entirely different experience.

Omnisphere and Falcon are both phenomenal pieces of technology. Incredible deep and versatile.

SP is more focused on the minimalistic experience. Fast, furious, fun.

Personally, I am all about speed and realism. It brings me closer to the music.


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## KEM (Oct 28, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> I look forward to the clashing of the Omnisphere vs SoundPaint fanbases. It’ll be more interesting than the usual Xbox vs PlayStation arguments.



I think I’ll stay an Omni and Xbox guy


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## sostenuto (Oct 28, 2021)

Maybe Omni v 2.8 & STEAM ?


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## Technostica (Oct 28, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> But here is where I would make the distinction. Soundpaint is 1 day old. Kontakt is 20 years old.
> Where are we gonna be say ... 2 years from now?


I alluded to this on KVR a few days ago.
A version 1.0 release for something with so much complexity and potential is always going to leave a lot on the table for future updates.


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## rrichard63 (Oct 28, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> all the other instruments are all attempts at creating a new sonic super-realism.


What Troels hears as super-realism I hear as processed. I'm basing that on the demo videos, since the piano is the only instrument I have downloaded. The four Parts of the piano are, by themselves, very natural sounding while many of the Programs are sounds that I would categorize as processed. To understand the term "super-realism" I think you have to emphasize the "super" part.



Troels Folmann said:


> The 808 is over 16.000 RTS (Real-Time Samples)


I forgot about the 808; that's another exception.


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## Casiquire (Oct 28, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> What Troels hears as super-realism I hear as processed. I'm basing that on the demo videos, since the piano is the only instrument I have downloaded. The four Parts of the piano are, by themselves, very natural sounding while many of the Programs are sounds that I would categorize as processed. To understand the term "super-realism" I think you have to emphasize the "super" part.
> 
> 
> I forgot about the 808; that's another exception.


That struck me as odd as well, that even the most natural sounding instrument we've seen (the piano) seems to focus on the sound design, not the realism


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## jneebz (Oct 28, 2021)

Hmm. I've only been playing the 1928 Grand for about 15 minutes, and obviously I didn't expect to have a HUGE aural-dream-come-true moment with a free piano, but I was hoping to experience SOMETHING different under my fingers, with you know 127 layers of dynamics....

But geesh, in all honesty, it doesn't really do much for me. I'm just not hearing timbre changes in the dynamic layers like my other "standard" piano libraries. Feels kinda lifeless, actually. Which is hugely ironic and disappointing at the same time. Am I crazy?


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## sostenuto (Oct 28, 2021)

Lots to learn, and ample time. Standalone _ Win10 Pro _ Piano, added Drums. Piano seems normal. Drums choices make no sound as Piano plays. Move to Reaper v6.38 _ same setup and both play properly. No worries, but perplexed.


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## Troels Folmann (Oct 28, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Lots to learn, and ample time. Standalone _ Win10 Pro _ Piano, added Drums. Piano seems normal. Drums choices make no sound as Piano plays. Move to Reaper v6.38 _ same setup and both play properly. No worries, but perplexed.


Forgive me if obvious. But make sure your standalone is configured correctly (see settings) for audio and midi - and make sure you don't have standalone open while you play in Reaper.


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## hoxclab (Oct 28, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> EDIT: If Spectrasonics's new line of Sonic Expansions grows over time, it might also compete for the title of best integration of sampling and synthesis. But for the moment, the Sonic Expansions rollout is being eclipsed by Soundpaint.


You're off your rocker or said I say your chair? Remember when Spectrasonics rolled out an all instrument bundle, that actually doesn't include all the instruments, and a beta version of their plug-ins and then charged users? Yeah me either.


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## sostenuto (Oct 28, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> Forgive me if obvious. But make sure your standalone is configured correctly (see settings) for audio and midi - and make sure you don't have standalone open while you play in Reaper.


Many thanks for Reply after surely tough day!
Standalone Settings was issue _ _but _ _complete menu options appeared after closing Reaper_, _then restarting Standalone.
Full list of MIDI /Audio choices and now all fine. Was concerned eariier as seemed incomplete Standalone Settings.


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## moon (Oct 28, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> You're off your rocker or said I say your chair? Remember when Spectrasonics rolled out an all instrument bundle, that actually doesn't include all the instruments, and a beta version of their plug-ins and then charged users? Yeah me either.


Man, you are REALLY hung up on that bundle…


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## sostenuto (Oct 28, 2021)

You're the man ! 👏🏻
FYI _
DAW #1 has (2) complete audio systems connected. One is powered monitors from Saffire Pro14. Other is integrated stereo pwr amp /spkrs /powered sub, from different Saffire Pro14. 
One set of selections did not appear initially in Standalone setup.

Win*11* Pro desktop PC as well, and pleased that all seems good now.

Regards


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## Michel Simons (Oct 29, 2021)

moon said:


> Man, you are REALLY hung up on that bundle…


I was thinking the same. The whole bundle idea is just to give people an easy way to order all available instruments. It's hardly cheaper.


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## tritonely (Oct 29, 2021)

I'm also not so impressed by the free piano, but the $20 jazz guitar is awesome! Nice deep sound, cheap, takes less than 1 GB of space. Only weird thing is that is says in the engine that when playing big chords, it uses 60% of my disk 'power', but when I'm checking the Windows task manager, it is around 1% disk usage at the same time.


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## iMovieShout (Oct 29, 2021)

Played around with Soundpaint again today, but now written off. Its just a hyped up GUI and marketing campaign, though I suppose it does provide a cheap entry-level way in to making music and sound for students and consumers.


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## axb312 (Oct 29, 2021)

Thoughts on Palindrome from anyone whos got it?....


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## mussnig (Oct 29, 2021)

axb312 said:


> Thoughts on Palindrome from anyone whos got it?....


Now that it's out I guess I may share my experiences with it over the last couple of weeks (since I had access during the beta): Whenever I was doing tests with Soundpaint, at some point I just ended up playing around with different presets for Palindrome. Just for my own amusement. It just got to me and I would just sit around for hours enjoying the well-designed programs (especially the arps).

I haven't used it seriously in a real composition so far (but I haven't really started any new compositions since the beginning of summer) but Palindrome so far has really given me many happy hours and I see many ways where I would seriously want to use it in various tracks.

Together with the smoothness of the guitar it's my personal highlight from the launch titles.


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## DANIELE (Oct 29, 2021)

I'll try it in the weekend, I hope I'll have time.


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## holywilly (Oct 29, 2021)

Got Palindrome and Jupiter 8, very happy with the sound, endless possibilities to sculpt the sound. However, didn’t quite impress with the piano, didn’t feel the 127 velocity layers.


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 29, 2021)

I've not downloaded Soundpaint and most likely won't, but I thought I'd write a small write-up of what I think Soundpaint is since there still seems to be some sort of confusion about what it actually is since the marketing and communication has been handled quite poorly, sadly, as to be excepted.

If we look beyond all the marketing chin-wag and all buzzwords, Soundpaint is a sampler... that's it. It's not a synth nor does it do any physical modelling. It's a sampler with a special gimmick/niche: it can morph between samples in real-time. How it does the morphing, I'm not sure, but I have a pretty good idea, although that doesn't even matter, what matters the most is the end product: the sound and the playability. Right now it's missing a few features - legato for one - but it is coming next year.

What "Ultra-deep Sampling(TM)" (UDS) means, who knows, probably that it's been sampled extensively. So just lots of samples with very minimal variations between the samples.

Then we come to one of the main selling points of Soundpaint: infinite dynamic layers. Which I believe is just basically morphing between already recorded dynamic layers - which sounds less impressive. Troels said that you can get dynamic layers that haven't been recorded which means that the engine doesn't look at the change between the dynamic layers and automatically figures out what the logical next layer would be to extend the dynamics, something that could probably be done with AI. So if you have recorded p and f you can morph between those layers and get 127 "dynamics" in between, but you can for example get ppp of fff.

I remember some of the marketing was that we would get access to the "DNA" of the audio/wave which seems very vague but we've not yet seen what that means. I would have guessed it would have been a lot more advanced than what we've been shown so far. Potentially something where we can get access to the different elements of a recorded sample. For example, a way to separate fundamentals + partials from the finger noise in a guitar sample, or extract the vibrato from a violin section, so that when can then modify those parts individually, combined with something like I mentioned before with the dynamics. Then the engine could ever so slightly change the way these parts (the DNA) sound and interact to create infinite round robins with infinite variation. I've not seen anything close to this, so the product didn't exactly live up to the marketing hype they tried to create. This is verging on a semi-modelled approach, and so far not what Soundpaint is aiming for, at all. So I'm unsure what getting access to the sounds DNA means.

Some of this could probably be done with the morphing: have two very different round robins that you morph between each time you hit a note so you get "infinite round robins" or at least slight variations, or maybe even morph between non-vib and molto vib to create the sense of the section increasing their vibrato without a simple cross-fade between the layers which will hopefully sound better than the traditional morphing.

So far, I've not seen too much that's been "revolutionary". The morphing seems nice and seems to have fewer artefacts than a lot of other methods, as well as being real-time. Although, it's not been shown very extensively and so far I've only seen a few good use cases of it.

If any of my musings about the engine are wrong, please, do correct me.

Soundpaint is in its infancy and will hopefully evolve with time so it will be interesting to see what they have in store for us in the future. Troels has mentioned AI in passing so they might be looking into that for certain things.

I also wanted to add - even though it has nothing to do with the engine itself - the pricing and no-sale policy is golden. Kudos to the Soundpaint team for that.


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## gamma-ut (Oct 29, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Got Palindrome and Jupiter 8, very happy with the sound, endless possibilities to sculpt the sound. However, didn’t quite impress with the piano, didn’t feel the 127 velocity layers.


I feel the piano isn't the greatest demonstration of what Soundpaint is going to be useful for. I think they've over-egged the "realism" aspect when the morphing and the other features are IMO its stronger elements. The trouble with the piano on the own is that there isn't a great deal to monkey with on the morph - though I got some interesting honky-tonk-meets-Noire sounds by abusing the note stretch functions in the second layer.


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## Drundfunk (Oct 29, 2021)

Regarding the 127 velocity layers, I felt like the piano definitely played smoother than many other virtual pianos I have, but it definitely didn't blow me away. But I think the fault also lies at the controller. My Dopefer LMK4+ is great and I looked ages for a keyboard which would feel like a real piano at least a little bit, but it just doesn't. It just sucks slightly less than some other offerings available at that time. So I'm kinda convinced the controller plays a huge part and actually personally I'm kinda happy that it there is still a huge gap between the real and the virtual. Nothing beats the real thing and that's good and as it should be. 

That being said, Soundpaint to me is a sound design engine with lots of onboard effects, the ability to control and automate various parameters, morphing etc. and all of that in *one* engine. On top of that you can add more sounds to the engine by purchasing soundpacks you like. I don't necessarily see it as this play-engine. Maybe I'm doing it injustice by judging it like that, but the sound design possibilities are more exciting to me personally, especially since it's quite easy to set it all up.


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## holywilly (Oct 29, 2021)

maybe we can share our designed presets here.


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## rrichard63 (Oct 29, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> I probably should refrain from commenting too much on this thread, since we got our commercial thread going. But I do not recall making such a statement. SP is all about pushing and pursuing realism. We only have one Sound Design release (Beautiful Noises) and all the other instruments are all attempts at creating a new sonic super-realism. The 808 is over 16.000 RTS (Real-Time Samples).
> 
> But here is where I would make the distinction. Soundpaint is 1 day old. Kontakt is 20 years old.
> 
> ...


The first time I read and replied to this, I missed an essential point. Soundpaint is designed to make using it feel effortless. A more prosaic term for what Troels is talking about is workflow. I think it succeeds.


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## holywilly (Oct 29, 2021)

So far I like Soundpaint, the engine. The build-in effects are top notch, everything is customizable and run efficiently in DAW. I’m now looking forward to upcoming soundpaint releases.


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## hoxclab (Oct 29, 2021)

moon said:


> Man, you are REALLY hung up on that bundle…


Yes I am because they are falsely advertising... Doesn't sit well with me. Be honest and straightforward.


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## Casiquire (Oct 29, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> Yes I am because they are falsely advertising... Doesn't sit well with me. Be honest and straightforward.


I'm confused, are there available instruments that you don't get with the bundle?


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## doctoremmet (Oct 29, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I'm confused, are there available instruments that you don't get with the bundle?


No. But hoxclab somehow wants to feel duped.


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## hoxclab (Oct 29, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I'm confused, are there available instruments that you don't get with the bundle?


Yeah all the ones greyed out. They have stated they have 100+ instruments ready to go. This isn't all their plugins they are offering but just the ones that have been released. I'm not into the doublespeak.


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## Casiquire (Oct 29, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> Yeah all the ones greyed out. They have stated they have 100+ instruments ready to go. This isn't all their plugins they are offering but just the ones that have been released. I'm not into the doublespeak.


So the bundle includes all instruments that are currently available?


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## Geoff Moore (Oct 29, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> Yes I am because they are falsely advertising... Doesn't sit well with me. Be honest and straightforward.


Are they falsely advertising or did you just misunderstand? This wording is true, and always will be. The bundle will always include all available instruments. The price will increase as there are more instruments available.



Casiquire said:


> So the bundle includes all instruments that are currently available?


Yep


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## doctoremmet (Oct 29, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> So the bundle includes all instruments that are currently available?


It does. There’s a $10 price difference. Troels has explained it is there for convenience: want it all? Click the bundle. They are not aiming to lure in people under false pretenses. Noone in his right mind expects the $300 price to stay the same for all 100+ instruments.


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## hoxclab (Oct 29, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> So the bundle includes all instruments that are currently available?


Yes all the Soundpaint instruments CURRENTLY AVAILABLE not ALL the Soundpaint instruments. Like they've had to clarify for multiple customers who are confused.


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## Evans (Oct 29, 2021)

I'm usually a massive nitpicker at these sort of things, but of all the marketing garbage and policies from 8Dio/Soundpaint's history that some people call out, this is both one of the least offensive *and* also easiest to correct. Just add "from our launch date" to the first bullet.


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## Casiquire (Oct 29, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> Yes all the Soundpaint instruments CURRENTLY AVAILABLE not ALL the Soundpaint instruments. Like they've had to clarify for multiple customers who are confused.





Evans said:


> I'm usually a massive nitpicker at these sort of things, but of all the marketing garbage and policies from 8Dio/Soundpaint's history that some people call out, this is both one of the least offensive *and* also easiest to correct. Just add "from our launch date" to the first bullet.



it literally gives you a list of what's included


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## hoxclab (Oct 29, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> Are they falsely advertising or did you just misunderstand? This wording is true, and always will be. The bundle will always include all available instruments. The price will increase as there are more instruments available.
> 
> 
> Yep


Hmm I misunderstood because they are doublespeaking. I am not the only one who is confused by this... Here's several links to others who are. Why are they confused? Oh yeah because Soundpaint is using doublespeak. That's right.






What happens if I morph music into an instrument? Let's find out ...


I have this issue as well. Beautiful noises says it's 44.3 GB and 1300 soundscapes, but I only ended up with 13.2GB on disk and a handful of presets. Ruh roh, I have this problem too. Will have to figure it out tomorrow night.



vi-control.net










What happens if I morph music into an instrument? Let's find out ...


Love the website, overall design, use of colors. Fantastic feel to it and great work. But the software itself looks like complete opposite - grey, sad, lifeless (at least on videos). Never judge book by it's cover though, I'll try for sure (and another free piano is always a free piano ;)).



vi-control.net


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## Crowe (Oct 29, 2021)

It's sample based, which means the 'sound designers' probably aren't hyped at all. After all, sample library comapany licences are notoriously restrictive concerning what can be done with their recordings.

To be fair. I haven't even looked because of this.


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## Evans (Oct 29, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> it literally gives you a list of what's included


Note that I'm not agreeing with the confusion. Just saying it's easy to avoid... on both sides.

In the least, not everyone here speaks English as a first language. Keep that in mind.


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## Geoff Moore (Oct 29, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> Hmm I misunderstood because they are doublespeaking. I am not the only one who is confused by this... Here's several links to others who are. Why are they confused? Oh yeah because Soundpaint is using doublespeak. That's right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough. I don't want any trouble, mister!

*runs off to huff more soundpaint*


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## Casiquire (Oct 29, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> Hmm I misunderstood because they are doublespeaking. I am not the only one who is confused by this... Here's several links to others who are. Why are they confused? Oh yeah because Soundpaint is using doublespeak. That's right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think they clear up any confusion here


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## Kery Michael (Oct 29, 2021)

I think it’s pretty cool. Let’s not forget the engine and piano is free. So much thanks to Troels for that.

Downloaded it this morning. Little overwhelmed by the UI, lot to figure out here. But I’m sure it’ll be fun and yield some surprises.

Actually I loved the piano. Didn’t get a chance to play around with it too much yet though.

I won’t be getting the bundle, $300 is a little steep for me at the moment. But I may pick up one of the instruments, even just as a kind of thanks. Because I can’t imagine the amount of work that goes into something like this.


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## hoxclab (Oct 29, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I think they clear up any confusion here


Apparently you also get all the latest updates as well included in there... So that means all the new updates instruments right? Again more confusion and doublespeak.


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## el-bo (Oct 29, 2021)

Hmmm...my 2 cents (That's cents, as related to the Euro. I cannot be held responsible for any charges related to currency-conversion, nor to specific tax-laws in your region)

I was one of those who couldn't really keep up with the main Soundpaint teaser/development thread. I tend to find it a bit overwhelming to keep up with stuff that's already released, without having to deal with stuff that hasn't. That's absolutely my cross-to-bear, and I'm just happy these days to let people get on with it. But when I did drop in, I just got an altogether too familiar sense of dread that the way in which Troels was 'selling' this was bound to end up with disappointment. That's not because it's a disappointing instrument, but because it would be impossible to live up to that kid of hype.

This is nothing against Troels. He seems like a nice guy, and is certainly an extremely talented musician/composer. Moreover, he's at the head of a company that makes (more often than not) excellent sample libraries. But after reading a few "Revolutionary" this and "re-inventing" that, and watching a few minutes of various videos, I wanted to jump into the screen, grab him by the shoulders and shout "Stop!...Stop!" 

Of course, I'm not saying to stop making walkthrough videos, nor offering tidbits of information about the whats, whys and wherefores. Just suggesting caution to not over-sell the idea and set yourself up for a lot of people ruining your launch-day with negative posts, because the instrument doesn't live up to the hype.

This isn't just a criticism of any one person, or company. It's just becoming so common. And the real frustrating part is that it seems so unnecessary. One only has to spend a few hours on this forum, or any other music-tech (or any other techie forum), to know that these developers have a captive audience. People are going to buy it, no matter what. It's now hard-coded into out DNA  If something is good, the reviews and walkthroughs will come through thick 'n' fast and even more people will end up buying.

Instead, there's some neutral posts and some positives. But the posts that leave the longest after-echo are the "How is this revolutionary"..."Sounds just like any other piano, to me"..."Nothing mind-blowing" (These are of course not direct-quotes. Immediately, the negativity rises to the foreground, and perhaps not for no reason. It seems that the criticisms are as a direct response to the claims made in the run up to the release.

Now, of course, there are always going to be the types of folk who are waiting for the opportunity to throw negativity, for whatever reason (Not necessarily accusing anyone here of that). But it just seems so obvious to me, that unnecessary hype is directly-proportionate (in many cases) to user disappointment.

Anyway, hope it's clear that this isn't an attack on Troels, 8Dio or anyone else. Just one man's perspective

Now...onto my thoughts about Soundpaint 

First, I'll caveat by saying I'm grateful to be given both the player/engine and the piano, for free. Thanks!

However, while I'm not disappointed (The piano sounds lovely, has some very nice alternative presets and seems very playable under my amateur fingers), there is a sense of "I must be missing something". It could just be that my controller isn't the best or I'm just not experienced enough with piano VI's to notice any discernible difference (I also don't own the Kontakt version of the piano), but I was really expecting (and why I wanted to avoid the main thread) was that it would all 'click' once the instrument was 'under hand'. But alas...

My personal feeling, in line with some others', is that the piano was not the best example to show-case this new instrument, and that something that really stretched (Literally) the boundaries of what we are normally accustomed to with synths/VI's/sampled instruments.

My suggestion would be to take some ideas from the A.A.S player model (Their free player comes with a handful of presets, taken from all their sound-packs) and blend this with your older 'try packs' idea i.e to offer limited (key-range etc) versions of a small amount of sounds. In your case, it needn't be a handful of sounds, and need only offer enough notes to make a triad (perhaps mirrored a couple of octaves lower). 

But perhaps none of this is necessary, as word-of-mouth will probably do the rest of the heavy-lifting, from now on 

Some other things to say:

- I quite like the GUI, at least so far. My only issue is that there seems to be a sweet-spot missing (at least on OSX w/ Logic, on a 27" 'standard' HD screen), between the default interface size and the next step up (Doesn't fit on screen, even when removing the standard Logic instruments/FX toolbar/ Perhaps I've missed this being discussed in teh official thread, or I'm doing something wrong.

Also, really happy with the small amount of time i've played with the fc. Was never a fan of the fx in the 8Dio Kontakt instruments, but these seem great. Was especially happy at being able to control the volume of pitch-shift in the reverb (Perhaps I'll once again be able to use +12 shimmer 'verb in my tracks  )

That's it, for the moment. Will add anything I notice, once I've had a chance to play around a bit more.

Thanks to Troels and team, and I hope you take my little rant in the spirit intended


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## SupremeFist (Oct 29, 2021)

filipjonathan said:


> What I'm most interested in is Juno 60!! I'm on a hunt for the best sounding 60/106 emulation so I'm really looking forward to hearing that one!


Cherry Audio's DCO-106 is really hard to beat since the recent update, plus it is crazy cheap (and there is even a demo).


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## Casiquire (Oct 29, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Hmmm...my 2 cents (That's cents, as related to the Euro. I cannot be held responsible for any charges related to currency-conversion, nor to specific tax-laws in your region)
> 
> I was one of those who couldn't really keep up with the main Soundpaint teaser/development thread. I tend to find it a bit overwhelming to keep up with stuff that's already released, without having to deal with stuff that hasn't. That's absolutely my cross-to-bear, and I'm just happy these days to let people get on with it. But when I did drop in, I just got an altogether too familiar sense of dread that the way in which Troels was 'selling' this was bound to end up with disappointment. That's not because it's a disappointing instrument, but because it would be impossible to live up to that kid of hype.
> 
> ...


This, i agree with. I spent a couple months watching the thread waiting for information that justified the excitement i was seeing, and it just never came.


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## Technostica (Oct 29, 2021)

I thought the staccato police were vicious enough, but the bundle police will go full Guantanamo Bay on your ass.


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## SupremeFist (Oct 29, 2021)

filipjonathan said:


> I did ask about that, like how is that possible if some layers weren't even recorded. Troels replied that "creating what's not recorded is not possible...yet." So that just proves that Soundpaint plays with the volume of the velocity layers in order to blend them. At least that's what I think.


I'm not really au fait with the technical side of things but don't Kontakt piano libraries also do something like this to some extent? So it still matters how many dynamic layers you actually recorded.


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## Michel Simons (Oct 29, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> Yes I am because they are falsely advertising... Doesn't sit well with me. Be honest and straightforward.


You forgot to highlight the total size of 286.1 GB.


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## Rudianos (Oct 29, 2021)

The piano is a drastic improvement and the velocity layers have been added - refer to my previous Ultimate Piano thread to here how much more even this piano is compared to what it was. And the tone! Not to mention all the added features and LFO between mics - many colors! https://vi-control.net/community/threads/ultimate-piano-comparison-thread.115615/post-4949349 Both versions have been posted on the thread


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## Michel Simons (Oct 29, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Hmmm...my 2 cents (That's cents, as related to the Euro. I cannot be held responsible for any charges related to currency-conversion, nor to specific tax-laws in your region)
> 
> I was one of those who couldn't really keep up with the main Soundpaint teaser/development thread. I tend to find it a bit overwhelming to keep up with stuff that's already released, without having to deal with stuff that hasn't. That's absolutely my cross-to-bear, and I'm just happy these days to let people get on with it. But when I did drop in, I just got an altogether too familiar sense of dread that the way in which Troels was 'selling' this was bound to end up with disappointment. That's not because it's a disappointing instrument, but because it would be impossible to live up to that kid of hype.
> 
> ...


Even though I might not agree with everything you have said (but I did agree with most) I enjoyed reading your balanced view.


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## el-bo (Oct 29, 2021)

Michel Simons said:


> Even though I might not agree with everything you have said (but I did agree with most) I enjoyed reading your balanced view.


Well, by way of perhaps trying to balance it even further: I'm not saying that what's going on under-the-hood here is not revolutionary or re-inventing. And I understand why we shouldn't expect to get the low-down on all the proprietary tech involved. Just seemed way too much, is all


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## Jeremy Morgan (Oct 29, 2021)

tritonely said:


> I'm also not so impressed by the free piano, but the $20 jazz guitar is awesome! Nice deep sound, cheap, takes less than 1 GB of space. Only weird thing is that is says in the engine that when playing big chords, it uses 60% of my disk 'power', but when I'm checking the Windows task manager, it is around 1% disk usage at the same time.


Might be of the core it's assigned to, not across all cores.


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## Michel Simons (Oct 29, 2021)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> Might be of the core it's assigned to, not across all cores.


I also noticed a difference between Soundpaint and Task Manager. But I believe that Troels even hinted at that.


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## rrichard63 (Oct 29, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> The piano is a drastic improvement and the velocity layers have been added - refer to my previous Ultimate Piano thread to here how much more even this piano is compared to what it was. And the tone! Not to mention all the added features and LFO between mics - many colors! https://vi-control.net/community/threads/ultimate-piano-comparison-thread.115615/post-4949349 Both versions have been posted on the thread


I find the comparison hard to make. As with all comparisons, you have to level match pretty carefully and doing that is complicated by the fact that the Kontakt and Soundpaint versions respond differently to the same changes in velocity. I think I agree with @Mark Elba:



Mark Elba said:


> To me the mapping of the velocity layers seems even off. Of course I can't tell whether it's the recording or the mapping. Either way. The loud notes come in suddenly and harshly, and at the same time there's little variation going on in the soft velocities.


All of that said, the velocity layers (and/or crossfades) in the Kontakt version sound pretty good to me. I'm willing to take it on faith that the Soundpaint version is even better.


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## Evans (Oct 29, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> *I'm willing to take it on faith* that the Soundpaint version is even better.


What? Really?


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## rrichard63 (Oct 29, 2021)

el-bo said:


> Well, by way of perhaps trying to balance it even further: I'm not saying that what's going on under-the-hood here is not revolutionary or re-inventing. And I understand why we shouldn't expect to get the low-down on all the proprietary tech involved. Just seemed way too much, is all


Like @Michel Simons, I really appreciate @el-bo's thoughtful, balanced approach and thorough write-up.

I think that some (not all) of what comes across as marketing hype is actually unbridled enthusiasm, which is complicated by the need to keep some things proprietary. I work at filtering out the part that actually is marketing hype because I'm pretty sure that, in the case of Soundpaint, there are some real innovations and I would like to understand them.


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## el-bo (Oct 29, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> I think that some (not all) of what comes across as marketing hype is actually unbridled enthusiasm.


Absolutely! Perhaps even most of it. Same for Christian, Paul at Spitfire etc. And while I'm certainly not advocating killing off such enthusiasm, I still think it should be tempered against the fact that these are paid, non-refundable libraries. 

Fortunately, it seems from the little I've read that those who have bought in to the expansions are having a fine time


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## axb312 (Oct 29, 2021)

I wanted to love Soundpaint but i feel disappointed.

Q1. What do I do with infinite dynamic layers on synths? No idea...

Q2. Why are there only about 80 soundsources and about 60 presets in palindrome, which I paid 50 USD for? Soundsets from Karanyi and others are regularly priced lower with more sounds.

Q3. Is this a Synth or a sampler or just a player...? If it's a sampler, why can't I load my own samples? If it's a Synth why the limited modulation options? If it's a player then why the talk of great possibilities?

Q4. What is soundpaint? I still don't get/ hear it.

Q5. Where are the SFX as shown in the palindrome walk through video?

Q6. What is up with stupid hidden gems?

Right now soundpaint just feels like a half baked sample based Synth, with an extremely limited (and overpriced) sample set. Great UI though.


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## Jonathan Moray (Oct 29, 2021)

axb312 said:


> Q2. Why are there only about 80 soundsources and about 60 presets in palindrome, which I paid 50 USD for? Soundsets from Karanyi and others are regularly priced lower with more sounds.


What? It says you get 24.9k samples and what I would assume that means sound sources. Are you saying all you got was 80 sound sources? There's gotta be a misunderstanding.

UDS Edition / 24.9K Real-Time Samples™ / 56.6GB
STD Edition / 2.6K Real-Time Samples™ / 12.2GB

I would guess there is at least one sample per key so each preset or sound source probably contains many more actual samples.



axb312 said:


> Q3. Is this a Synth or a sampler or just a player...? If it's a sampler, why can't I load my own samples? If it's a Synth why the limited modulation options? If it's a player then why the talk of great possibilities?


For now, it's a player playing samples. They are planning on rolling out the ability to use your own samples in the engine which will open up many interesting capabilities. But I will try to keep my expectations to a minimum because I wouldn't be surprised if that somehow turned out less than great. From what I understood they were planning on releasing the ability to create complete instruments in the engine, not just a single sample import, but who knows what is really going to happen.



axb312 said:


> Q4. What is soundpaint? I still don't get/ hear it.


It's a sampler (or supposed to be it seems) with very fancy marketing and morphing. It seems capable enough for being in it's 0.x beta stage so it could very well evolve to become something really good in the future.


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## filipjonathan (Oct 29, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Cherry Audio's DCO-106 is really hard to beat since the recent update, plus it is crazy cheap (and there is even a demo).


I have it but was immediately disappointed when I compared it to Softubes Model 84. It's now on my Christmas list.


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## axb312 (Oct 29, 2021)

Jonathan Moray said:


> What? It says you get 24.9k samples and what I would assume that means sound sources. Are you saying all you got was 80 sound sources? There's gotta be a misunderstanding.
> 
> UDS Edition / 24.9K Real-Time Samples™ / 56.6GB
> STD Edition / 2.6K Real-Time Samples™ / 12.2GB
> ...


It looks like they've sampled leads, basses, pads etc on actual synths. Each pad, bass, etc is called a part (soundsource in my terminology).

Looks like multiple notes are sampled with multiple variations of the same note in the UDS versions.

I am a little disappointed when a company talks about a 35,000 USD rack of equipment and makes and samples just 80 sounds with it.


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## Auf dem Wolf (Oct 29, 2021)

I'm waiting for someone to do a deep and critical review.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 29, 2021)

The more videos I watch, the more it appears (to me) that this is simply a sample player - a proprietary sample player, with a proprietary encoding format - just like SINE, OPUS, Synchron Player, etc. Perhaps wrapped in some nice marketing - with some promise of technical revolutions that are 8 years in the making - but until there's some audible or visual proof of those - it seems like a strategy no different to the other major players.

The primary difference between this and the other players is they've added a variety of modulations and effects - but nothing new compared to many Kontakt interfaces and instruments. For example, Spitfire's eDNA engine or Sunset Strings allow you to morph between sound sources. Damage 2 allows you to apply a variety of FX on the source source. AVA Instinct has a step sequencer and LFOs. Kontakt allows you to CC automate most parameters. Soundpaint brings that all together for all sound sources / patches, but functionality-wise, it is what you can do in Kontakt today.

I wish there was more info on the smooth velocity mapping tech - as I mentioned, I don't hear a difference really in the piano - in fact, compared to libraries that have actually sampled 20-30 velocities, I hear more timbral difference in them. And that's really the crux of my interest - dynamic range also means timbral range for many instruments. How is Soundpaint going to "guess" that when moving between say an _m_ and _f_ layer? Or if it effectively doing a crossfade, then that is no different than what Kontakt and other samplers do.

As an anecdote, in terms of sound design, I loaded a quick piano patch in Omnisphere and was able to get very similar sound design-y patches - and very quickly. The one benefit I found when trying to do this in Omnisphere is just more flexibility in terms of sound source manipulation and tweaking (thanks to the synth engine).


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## Evans (Oct 29, 2021)

Get ready for it.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Oct 29, 2021)

Put me on the Soundpaint team. It's all about the morphing.

With Omnisphere, Kontakt, Falcon, HALion, etc. you can layer sounds or split the keyboard. With Soundpaint you can morph from one sound to another. You can't do that with any of the others, so I see this as a new idea. 

It's an obviously useful idea for sound design and has great potential for music too. 

This is why I will buy the guitar at some point, even though I don't "need " another guitar. It's very inexpensive and it will be fun to experiment with morphing between the piano and the guitar. I don't currently see buying the guitar in the way I currently see Kontakt instruments--where you research and buy the one you like best--at the moment it's about me increasing my supply of morphing ingredients and expanding my paintbox. That will probably change as they make instruments more attractive to me than the ones they've made so far. I think the Soundpaint engine is going to be a lot of fun and I look forward to using it. I

On top of that, I like the effects, there are some interesting ideas in the arpeggiator. But while I haven't watched the video on the matrix, if it's like everything else it will be easy to figure out without watching the videos. It's laid out in a way that even a dummy like me can figure it out.


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## Bman70 (Oct 29, 2021)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> With Omnisphere, Kontakt, Falcon, HALion, etc. you can layer sounds or split the keyboard. With Soundpaint you can morph from one sound to another. You can't do that with any of the others, so I see this as a new idea.


What do you mean by morphing, and what is happening to each sound while it's being morphed? Is it different from just fading out or in, as I can do between two sounds with Omnisphere's mod wheel?


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## Evans (Oct 29, 2021)

Looks like Simeon is also going to cover Soundpaint today, as well.


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## Rudianos (Oct 29, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> I find the comparison hard to make. As with all comparisons, you have to level match pretty carefully and doing that is complicated by the fact that the Kontakt and Soundpaint versions respond differently to the same changes in velocity. I think I agree with @Mark Elba:
> 
> 
> All of that said, the velocity layers (and/or crossfades) in the Kontakt version sound pretty good to me. I'm willing to take it on faith that the Soundpaint version is even better.


if one listens to the controlled velocity test of kontakt version - 7 instances I count of drastic tonal shift - versus 1-2 in the soundpaint. The later is something that is comparable with our top libraries. I had to kick the volume up from default this morning - and she is singing now.


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## Ciochi (Oct 29, 2021)

I did a very quick comparison between 1928 piano and others I own. In no way exhausting, I'm not 1/10 good as Simeon at playing, thus this makes me the average user. Really not impressed at this time, but I will wait for future updates.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Oct 29, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> What do you mean by morphing, and what is happening to each sound while it's being morphed? Is it different from just fading out or in, as I can do between two sounds with Omnisphere's mod wheel?


Think of an image of a face morphing into another image of a monster. It's a very smooth process. Gradually something changes into something quite different. He's doing it sonically. He demonstrates this repeatedly in his videos, and you can hear it for yourself.

If you tried to change the sound of a group of Belgian nuns, for example, into a piano sound, it wouldn't be as smooth a transition in something like Omnisphere. That's a radical transformation. It's not like adding vibrato with a modwheel.

But in terms of how the morphing is done, that's a question for Troels, but I imagine it is proprietary information.

That's what it is. The question if whether you find it useful for the music or sound design you make.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Oct 29, 2021)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> Think of an image of a face morphing into another image of a monster. It's a very smooth process. Gradually something changes into something quite different. He's doing it sonically. He demonstrates this repeatedly in his videos, and you can hear it for yourself.
> 
> If you tried to change the sound of a group of Belgian nuns, for example, into a piano sound, it wouldn't be as smooth a transition in something like Omnisphere. That's a radical transformation. It's not like adding in strings with a modwheel.
> 
> ...


Literally the most engaging thing about soundpaint for me is the beautiful noises bundle because it's fantastic morphing from instruments into natural sounds and landing somewhere to the left or right of middle. That instantly sold me on it and I forgot about the velocity stuff completely in usage.


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## Bman70 (Oct 29, 2021)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> Think of an image of a face morphing into another image of a monster. It's a very smooth process. Gradually something changes into something quite different. He's doing it sonically. He demonstrates this repeatedly in his videos, and you can hear it for yourself.
> 
> If you tried to change the sound of a group of Belgian nuns, for example, into a piano sound, it wouldn't be as smooth a transition in something like Omnisphere. That's a radical transformation. It's not like adding vibrato with a modwheel.
> 
> ...



Thanks I have watched a few videos, and didn't hear anything that seemed drastically different from a crossfade between two sounds. 

In Omnisphere I can use the wheel to fade the nuns out, while fading in a piano simultaneously. It would be hard to make a smoother transition than that. I can also make an effect, say a reverb and / or gate, be added to the piano and increase simultaneously with its volume curve. 

Looks like some new videos are coming out right now. Maybe I'll figure out if morphing is something essential to add to the toolbox.


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## wunderflo (Oct 29, 2021)

I'd usually stay out of such discussions, but some premature judgments here feel unfair to me and make me want to defend Soundpaint/8dio. Please don't badmouth a new innovative tool - without even having thoroughly tested it. And nobody has fully explored it yet, because it only has been out for 1 day!!! (beta testers excluded)

There's finally someone who has the courage to come up with something new and doesn't only create the 629362938th string library, yet there are already people complaining that it doesn't come with a real sounding orchestral instrument and another legato transition? Someone put tons of effort and passion into developing this, and some of you already know that it sucks after 1 day? Give this thing a chance ffs! 

Marketing is marketing. If you don't like it, don't read texts or watch videos by the developers, but wait for reviews. It's not their job to be objective about their products. Do you really expect the vendors to highlight every aspect you might not like, and to avoid raising any high expectations by any means? They cannot be held responsible for unrealistic expectations you dream up like 300$ bundles with lifelong free updates/additions (it says "updates", not "lifetime updates & every future release"). 

I actually want them to make bold statements, raise high expectations and show that they are proud on their products, because if they don't even believe in their stuff, why should I buy it? I didn't see any lie or completely over-the-top exaggeration. Instead, I get the feeling that some of you just want to misunderstand it, and therefore you closely examine every word that has ever been written (and even count samples/presets, wtf). Do you even ever play or create music? Maybe you should become lawyers. It's about the instrument, not the marketing. In fact, Soundpaint is even actively fighting FOMO with their "never on sale" policy and very affordable pricing. We should applaud them for that.

No one ever said it was a synth. It's a sample player / sampler (loading own samples might be possible in the future). That's not the point, though. The fuss is about the ENGINE with the new audio format and real time rendering and morphing (which is more than crossfading). Maybe, at this point, the technological innovation factor matters more to developers than to the end-users. Hard to tell, and in the long-term that's the same, anyways. 

What I can tell so far is that it feels and sounds amazing. The piano and the guitar are super expressive and full of emotion. The 808 sounds extremely authentic. Of course, you need a midi keyboard that doesn't only output velocities of 40 and 90 (and play dynamically) to actually feel a difference. It's simple, fast, fun and feels like playing an actual instrument. It invites to just play or experiment with sounds. On top of that, the morphing offers new sonic perspectives. That's the impression I got from their presentation, and that's what they delivered, imo.


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## gamma-ut (Oct 29, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> Thanks I have watched a few videos, and didn't hear anything that seemed drastically different from a crossfade between two sounds.
> 
> In Omnisphere I can use the wheel to fade the nuns out, while fading in a piano simultaneously. It would be hard to make a smoother transition than that. I can also make an effect, say a reverb and / or gate, be added to the piano and increase simultaneously with its volume curve.
> 
> Looks like some new videos are coming out right now. Maybe I'll figure out if morphing is something essential to add to the toolbox.


It is doing morphing rather than cross fading as far as I can tell: the results are broadly similar to using something like Zynaptiq's Morph. Morphing is, frankly, a bit finicky. With dissimilar sound sources – ie tonal vs noisy – this can sound an awful lot like cross-fading (though with a bit of filtering on top). 

Some things work well and a lot don't. And sometimes pitching one sound and another down suddenly results in a happy accident. There don't seem to be that many active morphing presets in the library from what I've seen, probably for this reason.


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## Bman70 (Oct 29, 2021)

gamma-ut said:


> It is doing morphing rather than cross fading as far as I can tell: the results are broadly similar to using something like Zynaptiq's Morph. Morphing is, frankly, a bit finicky. With dissimilar sound sources – ie tonal vs noisy – this can sound an awful lot like cross-fading (though with a bit of filtering on top).
> 
> Some things work well and a lot don't. And sometimes pitching one sound and another down suddenly results in a happy accident. There don't seem to be that many active morphing presets in the library from what I've seen, probably for this reason.


Actually Dirk demonstrated the difference a bit more thoroughly, in his live video. It certainly appears different from just layering / fading two sounds. Almost like some kind of EQ matching or filtering is going on.


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## rrichard63 (Oct 29, 2021)

wunderflo said:


> there are already people complaining that it doesn't come with a real sounding orchestral instrument


I can't speak for others, only for myself. I (at least) wasn't complaining. My take on the innovative technology here was that it is a step (potentially a big step) toward integrating sampled instruments and synthesizer-like sound processing in the same engine. (This integration is only one aspect of what the new engine is about.) In this context, I remarked (not complained) that the demos of the instruments available at launch showcased the processing much more than sounds of the natural, physical instruments. Afterwards, Troels explained that this is because they want to highlight what's new. He has also explained that over time they will port a lot of instruments from Kontakt (the videos make clear that some are already ported, just not released yet).

In short, I'm evaluating Soundpaint for its potential to become a very broad platform capable of everything from concert hall realism to cinematic sound design and electronic music -- and capable of blending and merging these perspectives. Everything in one player. So far, I think it's promising.


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## Auf dem Wolf (Oct 29, 2021)

Evans said:


> Get ready for it.


Some reason that link does not work for me? (just sits on a loading screen). 
This one works:


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## Evans (Oct 29, 2021)

Fixed!


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Oct 29, 2021)

I am very excited to see what I can do with this new System

As an owner of Omnisphere 2 and a guitarist, I cannot wait to see what I can do when we get o import our own audio!

Started with just the Piano, but today I just got Palindrome UDS and the 808 Drum Machine UDS
That option to go to the Shop from the App and buy so simply with Paypal is not great on the wallet

But I have disciplined myself these last few months to delete release emails, deals and stop spending samples

So this will be it for me this year... as long as 8DIO don't release Century Woodwinds to complete my collection


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## timprebble (Oct 29, 2021)

Jonathan Moray said:


> I've not downloaded Soundpaint and most likely won't, but I thought I'd write a small write-up of what I think Soundpaint is since there still seems to be some sort of confusion about what it actually is since the marketing and communication has been handled quite poorly, sadly, as to be excepted.
> 
> If we look beyond all the marketing chin-wag and all buzzwords, Soundpaint is a sampler... that's it.




Not to be pedantic but... its not a sampler, its a ROMpler
All the hardware samplers I own have a magical function: its an input socket
While Kontakt is also a ROMpler, it does also allow import of your own samples....

It will be interesting to see if SoundPaint ever does 'open up' to allow users to import and create their own sounds (rather than recalling presets and tweaking parameters of others work)


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## rrichard63 (Oct 29, 2021)

timprebble said:


> While Kontakt is also a ROMpler, it does also allow import of your own samples


Kontakt Player is a rompler. But the full version of Kontakt is a full-fledged sampler.


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## dylanmixer (Oct 29, 2021)

Here's my review -


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Oct 29, 2021)

If the special sauce tech is indeed morphing between sounds (not just crossfading), that is an interesting approach - I wonder if they're doing it similar to a wavetable synth that can morph between the periodic waveforms. Except perhaps they've figured out a way to increase the resolution of the "table" so it sounds like the normal WAV sample, but then still be able to morph between multiple points in the table (with each point being representative of the normal WAV sample) in a highly efficient way. They would still need to sample multiple layers to ensure the timbral variations are taken into account, but this would be a way to make the transitions smoother than a standard crossfade.


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## Geoff Moore (Oct 30, 2021)

timprebble said:


> Not to be pedantic but... its not a sampler, its a ROMpler
> All the hardware samplers I own have a magical function: its an input socket
> While Kontakt is also a ROMpler, it does also allow import of your own samples....
> 
> It will be interesting to see if SoundPaint ever does 'open up' to allow users to import and create their own sounds (rather than recalling presets and tweaking parameters of others work)


User sample import is coming in Q1 2022, first major update.


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## Guido Pannekoek (Oct 30, 2021)

wunderflo said:


> I'd usually stay out of such discussions, but some premature judgments here feel unfair to me and make me want to defend Soundpaint/8dio. Please don't badmouth a new innovative tool - without even having thoroughly tested it. And nobody has fully explored it yet, because it only has been out for 1 day!!! (beta testers excluded)
> 
> There's finally someone who has the courage to come up with something new and doesn't only create the 629362938th string library, yet there are already people complaining that it doesn't come with a real sounding orchestral instrument and another legato transition? Someone put tons of effort and passion into developing this, and some of you already know that it sucks after 1 day? Give this thing a chance ffs!
> 
> ...


You get a new platform for free with a piano.

You can get packs with really beautifull crafted sounds for 50$ or less.

The loadtime of a sound or preset is the same as the time leftclicking on your mouse, fraction of a second.

You can tweak the sounds how you like with lots of tweakable parameters.

You can morph sounds.

Next year, first quarter you will be able to load your own sounds.

And what some people do? Complaining about nothing like spoiled children of rich people. And this starting from one hour after the release of soundpaint with arguments like "I"m nothing goin to buy it because of blablabla", "I tested it and unistalled it",...

Thanks Troels and the other developpers for making something that is a real playground for people who like beautifull sounds and like to dive into things without a manual. Let the wankers wank, it's there reason of existence.


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## angeruroth (Oct 30, 2021)

A simple ~3' background filler with some variations.
Soundpaint: 1928, Emotions.
Spitfire (strings): BDT, Tundra, Aone.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Oct 30, 2021)

Guido Pannekoek said:


> You get a new platform for free with a piano.
> 
> You can get packs with really beautifull crafted sounds for 50$ or less.
> 
> ...


As a person who spent most of his life in the IT domain...In the world of software releases (even internal ones) in general there are no snowflakes allowed. Only yellow snow or iron rich 'The Revenant' red as you are torn asunder for the first few days post a release. As they normalize out people will normalize too and in between some criticisms will go away because they will get resolved and some will stay and be resolved later. There is nothing about soundpaint that seems limited that's for sure.

Either way how can you not want forward momentum for this product?


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## biomuse (Oct 30, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If the special sauce tech is indeed morphing between sounds (not just crossfading), that is an interesting approach - I wonder if they're doing it similar to a wavetable synth that can morph between the periodic waveforms. Except perhaps they've figured out a way to increase the resolution of the "table" so it sounds like the normal WAV sample, but then still be able to morph between multiple points in the table (with each point being representative of the normal WAV sample) in a highly efficient way. They would still need to sample multiple layers to ensure the timbral variations are taken into account, but this would be a way to make the transitions smoother than a standard crossfade.








Best Real Time Convolution Algorithm?


What is the best current algorithm computationally for implementing a zero delay (partitioned) #Convolution of an audio rate signal with a fixed...




www.dsprelated.com


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## kitekrazy (Oct 30, 2021)

I'm getting less interested in sample based Kontakt/proprietary player synths even though I wouldn't mind Omnisphere someday. There's too much gluttony when it comes to disk space. I have every popular synth out there and then some. I should be able to get along with those.


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## Futchibon (Oct 30, 2021)

Anyone got Palindrome? The demos sound pretty epic:


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## Futchibon (Oct 30, 2021)

angeruroth said:


> A simple ~3' background filler with some variations.
> Soundpaint: 1928, Emotions.
> Spitfire (strings): BDT, Tundra, Aone.



Nice! Thanks for sharing


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## timprebble (Oct 30, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Kontakt Player is a rompler. But the full version of Kontakt is a full-fledged sampler.


Thanks I use full version of Kontakt and it does not have an input.

For example, my Roland VP9000 I can plug a mic or instrument into and directly sample.
For example, my Rossum Assimilt8r module I can plug audio or cv into and directly sample
For example, my ER301 module I can plug audio into and directly sample

Kontakt does not have an input.
Yes I can record sounds into my DAW, edit them and transfer them into Kontakt.
But that is very far from real time sampling, the way every hardware sampler does.


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## rrichard63 (Oct 30, 2021)

timprebble said:


> Thanks I use full version of Kontakt and it does not have an input.
> 
> For example, my Roland VP9000 I can plug a mic or instrument into and directly sample.
> For example, my Rossum Assimilt8r module I can plug a mic or instrument into and directly sample (audio or cv)
> ...


Okay, I see what you mean. Not how I have been thinking of it, though. It doesn't seem right to call something a "rompler" that lets you build your own instruments from raw .wav files, including scripting. I guess I need another jargon word for this.

Thanks for the clarification.


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## Auf dem Wolf (Oct 30, 2021)

The term is "s'rompler", if I recall correctly.


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## Casiquire (Oct 30, 2021)

Auf dem Wolf said:


> The term is "s'rompler", if I recall correctly.


Isn't that like a onesie?


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## Auf dem Wolf (Oct 30, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> Isn't that like a onesie?


Totally. I knew I'd seen it somewhere...


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## Troels Folmann (Oct 30, 2021)

Auf dem Wolf said:


> The term is "s'rompler", if I recall correctly.


I like it! Add an "h" somewhere and we are almost there!


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## gamma-ut (Oct 31, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Okay, I see what you mean. Not how I have been thinking of it, though. It doesn't seem right to call something a "rompler" that lets you build your own instruments from raw .wav files, including scripting. I guess I need another jargon word for this.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification.


I think I’ve seen RAMpler suggested. But the bigger question is: who the hell cares? The whole Kontakt can’t be a sampler because it doesn’t have a direct input thing has been legislated countless times on the interwebs and it wasn’t interesting the first time around. People argue the toss over semantics but it’s not as it using the term sampler for Kontakt and products like it causes any confusion. Someone raising it for the 646th time doesn’t add much in the way of value.


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## Zedcars (Oct 31, 2021)

To aid my uncontrollable anal OCD tendencies when naming folders, please could someone tell me is it officially:

"Soundpaint"
or
"SoundPaint"

I have seen it written both ways on the website.

I apologise for the banality and pointlessness of my post.


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## jules (Oct 31, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Anyone got Palindrome? The demos sound pretty epic:



It's good but very focused (distorded bass/leads/arps/pads) and the footprint is astonishingly high : around 250 presets for 55 go. They need a compression algo asap, lol. And they should consider adding the smaller version to the account of buyers of the uds one.


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## jaketanner (Oct 31, 2021)

I find some sounds okay I guess from the video, but I really don't like the name...LOL. Just weird, and the GUI is terrible...not modern or fun looking...very industrial and uninspired. Maybe stupid reasons not to like something, but I also don't use mixing plugins if they don't look a certain way...LOL. Also, most of it, from what I can tell, is simply a string of effects plugins that I can create most of it in a template if I wanted to...not the morphing of course, but adding the effects and auto-panning...etc, is easy to setup. Some sounds so sound interesting....but is it better than what i already have? Is it "different" enough for me to use instead of what I have?...that's the real question that I think many of us are contemplating.


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## gamma-ut (Oct 31, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> To aid my uncontrollable anal OCD tendencies when naming folders, please could someone tell me is it officially:
> 
> "Soundpaint"
> or
> ...


It’s clearly SOUNDPAINT.

Seriously, the home page seems to have it mostly as Soundpaint, so I’d go with that. Also, just say no to UnnecessaryCamelCase.


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## Markrs (Oct 31, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> GUI is terrible


I love the interface and would take it over the interface of most sample libraries. However, I work in UX and fond of interfaces that are very easy to use and understand. To me it is very simple and clean interface with no unnecessary extras.


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## jaketanner (Oct 31, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I love the interface and would take it over the interface of most sample libraries. However, I work in UX and fond of interfaces that are very easy to use and understand. To me it is very simple and clean interface with no unnecessary extras.


it's definitely simple looking. Just seems outdated to me...most of their interfaces are not inspiring...I have several of their libraries...I just wish they would spend some more time developing something that is more engaging AND functional.


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## Dirtgrain (Oct 31, 2021)

I love the UI and color scheme--very smooth and practical.


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## Michel Simons (Oct 31, 2021)

Maybe it's because of all the videos I watched, but that UI makes even me want to do a bit more sound design instead of just using presets and only slightly tweaking them (what I normally do).


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## gamma-ut (Oct 31, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> it's definitely simple looking. Just seems outdated to me...most of their interfaces are not inspiring...I have several of their libraries...I just wish they would spend some more time developing something that is more engaging AND functional.


There are a bunch of functions I'd like but I don't have many complaints about the way the UI is presented. Sampler/Rompler UIs generally aren't very inviting overall just because of the sheer number of moving parts they generally need. Halion and Kontakt are hardly works of art – but they are trying pack a lot into a small space. Roland's Zenology is basically a sea of sliders with some not entirely great colour choices.

Some aspects of Soundpaint aren't immediately obvious but I've not had to refer to any manual or videos to get stuff done so far. I couldn't even get started with Halion without dipping into the manual.


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## Double Helix (Oct 31, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> "Soundpaint"
> or
> "SoundPaint"







. . . and don't neglect the *TM*


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## Double Helix (Oct 31, 2021)

Perhaps if someone were to buy in here at the beginning and spring for the All Bundle, the company could consider allowing early adopters to acquire future instruments at a significant discount (e.g., 50%)

For ol' Double Helix the heavy footprint (281GB) is something to consider: The piano does sound nice, but I can't justify getting the whole enchilada; there are definitely some cool highlights, but other components (drums and effects, for example) would likely never get used. I guess à la carte would be the most cost & footprint effective for my modest "requirements."


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## Colin66 (Oct 31, 2021)

$300. Bargain.


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## KEM (Oct 31, 2021)

The 808 cowbell is the most obnoxious and annoying sound I’ve ever heard, I hate it with a passion, makes me mad every time I hear it


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## doctoremmet (Oct 31, 2021)




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## el-bo (Oct 31, 2021)

KEM said:


> The 808 cowbell is the most obnoxious and annoying sound I’ve ever heard, I hate it with a passion, makes me mad every time I hear it


Even with 127 velocities? 😁


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## Trash Panda (Oct 31, 2021)

KEM said:


> The 808 cowbell is the most obnoxious and annoying sound I’ve ever heard, I hate it with a passion, makes me mad every time I hear it


Suddenly, I’m very interested in this cowbell and want to include it in everything I make.


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## KEM (Oct 31, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


>




I’ll take this one instead


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## doctoremmet (Oct 31, 2021)

I bet all of them like cowbells.


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## Dirtgrain (Oct 31, 2021)

Double Helix said:


> . . . and don't neglect the *TM*


Oh, now you are really messing with us. All those capital letters, like one would expect in a title, but the "i" in "is" is not capitalized? Grrrrrr.


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## el-bo (Oct 31, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Some sounds so sound interesting....but is it better than what i already have? Is it "different" enough for me to use instead of what I have?


For me, there has been very little new 'under the sun', sound-wise, for a while. But ever since I got my Seaboard, along with Equator and the 2 FXPansion synths, I realised that even the most basic sound become a 'real' instrument when given added expressivity. 

What I'm looking for in SP (And I'm pretty sure it's a big part of the approach) is that these sounds will be much different in feel when playing.


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## el-bo (Oct 31, 2021)

Double Helix said:


> the heavy footprint (281GB)


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## Zedcars (Oct 31, 2021)

Dirtgrain said:


> Oh, now you are really messing with us. All those capital letters, like one would expect in a title, but the "i" in "is" is not capitalized? Grrrrrr.


“is” should not be capitalised in that context.

Edit: It seems the rules here are not set in stone. Some guidelines recommend not capitalising verbs shorter than 5 letters, whereas others do.


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## Double Helix (Oct 31, 2021)

Zedcars said:


> “is” should not be capitalised in that context.
> 
> Edit: It seems the rules here are not set in stone. Some guidelines recommend not capitalising verbs shorter than 5 letters, whereas others do.


Nor should articles and prepositions (as I realize you are well aware)


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## KEM (Oct 31, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I bet all of them like cowbells.



There is not a single cowbell (especially that disgusting 808 cowbell) anywhere on Yeezus, I rest my case


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## doctoremmet (Oct 31, 2021)

KEM said:


> There is not a single cowbell (especially that disgusting 808 cowbell) anywhere on Yeezus, I rest my case


I always liked Yeezus but felt there was just _something_ lacking, and now my years-long subliminal thought process comes to an end! Thanks Kenneth!


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## JDK88 (Oct 31, 2021)

I would think that the morphing tech would eliminate the need for gigabytes and gigabytes worth of samples. Why not demonstrate its power? Unless, it's not that amazing to begin with.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 31, 2021)

JDK88 said:


> I would think that the morphing tech would eliminate the need for gigabytes and gigabytes worth of samples. Why not demonstrate its power? Unless, it's not that amazing to begin with.


The morphing tech doesn’t have anything to do with the actual sources it morphs. These could be either 1 Mb samples or one individual 1 Mb patch (or 10 Gb patch for that matter) that stems from a 55 Gb library containing hundreds of patches all consisting of multiple parts, chromatically sampled across 88 keys with 5 round robins. In other words: it may or may not be amazing tech, but the storage footprint of the sound sources being morphed has nothing to do with the tech itself or how good it works.


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## Geoff Moore (Oct 31, 2021)

JDK88 said:


> I would think that the morphing tech would eliminate the need for gigabytes and gigabytes worth of samples. Why not demonstrate its power? Unless, it's not that amazing to begin with.


What the Doc said. Nobody is claiming it's magic haha. Troels has been very open and said the more samples you put in, the better it works. Obviously it can't guess how any instrument will sound at any velocity based on one sample, that would be absurd.

Or would it........

(yes)


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## doctoremmet (Oct 31, 2021)

Meldaproduction MMorph offers functionality to morph various soundsources as well. Soundpaint’s abilities seem to be pretty similar:


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## doctoremmet (Oct 31, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> Obviously it can't guess how any instrument will sound at any velocity based on one sample, that would be absurd.


The morphing and the infinite velocity layers are two completely separate features of the engine I gather.


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## Zedcars (Oct 31, 2021)

Anyone remember TC PowerCore Assimilator from way back? I used it a lot. It was able to learn the EQ fingerprint of one audio source and adjust another to match. You could also morph between 2 different EQ fingerprints. I wonder if this tech is related to that?





__





TC Electronic | Product | ASSIMILATOR POWERCORE







www.tcelectronic.com





Nowadays I use Voxengo CurveEQ for the same task.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Oct 31, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> The morphing and the infinite velocity layers are two completely separate features of the engine I gather.


I suspect under the hood it's using the exact same technology though.


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## b_elliott (Oct 31, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Meldaproduction MMorph offers functionality to morph various soundsources as well. Soundpaint’s abilities seem to be pretty similar:



MMorph currently marked 50% off (5 hours remaining per countdown.)

I believe it's not improper to ask since this is a sample talk page, but I have a Melda question for the Doctor: What does its MSoundFactory bring to the table that its MPower synth can't handle? Also not sure whether MSoundfactory LE is too crippled (minimal editing features) to consider. (will delete in case this thread is paid for by SP)

Sorry, now back to Soundpaint.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 31, 2021)

b_elliott said:


> What does its MSoundFactory bring to the table that its MPower synth can't handle?


A LOT. But I’m off to a 10CC concert shortly. So super brief. 

Most importantly: ALL Melda’s fx are in there (including MMorph), 8 operator FM is in there and physical modelling as well. Even MPowerSynth is IN MSoundFactory, lol. It is a ridiculous beast of a synth. It just so happens I’m patching a couple of banks for it as we speak.


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## doctoremmet (Oct 31, 2021)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> I suspect under the hood it's using the exact same technology though.


Could be. But the velocity layer ‘interpolation lookup table data’ (HIGHLY speculative!) seems to be stored in the proprietary wave file whereas the morphing of parts is done in real time. Which -a priori- makes me doubt your statement?


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## Trash Panda (Oct 31, 2021)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> I suspect under the hood it's using the exact same technology though.


Based on the videos and prior posts, I believe you are correct. 

Another poster explained as the audio version of morphing a picture of a woman into a man. 

Take each frame of that morphing process with your ppp sample as the start and your fff sample as the end. Slice it into 127 “frames” as the sound is morphed between them of the morphing and you basically have your 127 velocity layers. Add a few additional reference points along the way (pp, p, mf, f, and ff) so you’re morphing between closer timbral intervals and it should sound more natural. 

Add in more steps for finer control and you’re achieving that “infinite” velocity layers even though in an image we’re talking a few pixels of difference between frames. 

Now throw in some variations in the algorithm to introduce some differences to the timbral color of the morphing and you can achieve that infinite round robins effect.


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## Junolab (Oct 31, 2021)

I'd take a sample with 20 fantastic recorded velocity layers any day over a 1 million layered good sounding samples. IMO new tech is great and it's fun for exploration, but its a "nice to have" compared to the million other factors that are involved in using samples for whatever project.


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## Geoff Moore (Oct 31, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Based on the videos and prior posts, I believe you are correct.
> 
> Another poster explained as the audio version of morphing a picture of a woman into a man.
> 
> ...


This is my understanding. I suppose a better analogy would be keyframes in 3d or vector animation, where the software tweens between them to fill in the gaps - since when morphing a photograph you aren't providing the middle points.


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## Markrs (Oct 31, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> But I’m off to a 10CC concert


Wow! Got to love a bit of 10CC. I used to listen to their albums quite a bit.


----------



## molemac (Oct 31, 2021)

KEM said:


> There is not a single cowbell (especially that disgusting 808 cowbell) anywhere on Yeezus, I rest my case


You can never get enough cowbell


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## SupremeFist (Oct 31, 2021)

Junolab said:


> I'd take a sample with 20 fantastic recorded velocity layers any day over a 1 million layered good sounding samples. IMO new tech is great and it's fun for exploration, but its a "nice to have" compared to the million other factors that are involved in using samples for whatever project.


My impression is that 8dio make great recordings that are not always ideally served by the subsequent programming, so if they are offloading more of that to clever algorithms it might be an improvement?


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## doctoremmet (Oct 31, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Wow! Got to love a bit of 10CC. I used to listen to their albums quite a bit.




It was fantastic!


----------



## Markrs (Oct 31, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> It was fantastic!



Wow, Graham Gouldman's vocals are still amazing! The band sound really good.


----------



## doctoremmet (Oct 31, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Wow, Graham Gouldman's vocals are still amazing! The band sound really good.


It was like a total hi-fi sound, I was amazed at how good it was in terms of sheer audio quality. Music is great as well of course, nothing but bonafide 1970s hits.


----------



## Futchibon (Oct 31, 2021)

jules said:


> It's good but very focused (distorded bass/leads/arps/pads) and the footprint is astonishingly high : around 250 presets for 55 go. They need a compression algo asap, lol. And they should consider adding the smaller version to the account of buyers of the uds one.


Cheers, downloaded it last night, looking forward to checking Palindrome out!


Markrs said:


> Wow! Got to love a bit of 10CC. I used to listen to their albums quite a bit.


I wonder if 10CC use CC11 much?


SupremeFist said:


> My impression is that 8dio make great recordings that are not always ideally served by the subsequent programming, so if they are offloading more of that to clever algorithms it might be an improvement?


My thoughts too, can't wait to see their orchestral offerings!



doctoremmet said:


> nothing but bonafide 1970s hits.


U2 had quite a few 'bonofied' hits in the 80s, terrible mullets though!


----------



## sinkd (Oct 31, 2021)

@Troels Folmann damn. All I have is the free piano so far but, seriously, this is is going to be inspirational and useful.


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## KEM (Oct 31, 2021)

I went to watch some YouTube videos on Soundpaint and saw one of the instruments was called “Palindrome” and I was like “oh yeah, there’s no way this isn’t inspired by TENET” and sure enough right away he mentioned Ludwig as a big influence for it, so obviously that means I have to buy it!!

That being said though, I hate how everyone keeps pronouncing Ludwig Göransson wrong


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## Nico5 (Oct 31, 2021)

One thing I find rather unfortunate about the naming of the instrument Palindrome is, that there's already a https://glitchmachines.com/products/palindrome/ (plugin instrument by Glitchmachines called Palindrome), which has been around for over 3 years.


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## Futchibon (Oct 31, 2021)

KEM said:


> I went to watch some YouTube videos on Soundpaint and saw one of the instruments was called “Palindrome” and I was like “oh yeah, there’s no way this isn’t inspired by TENET” and sure enough right away he mentioned Ludwig as a big influence for it, so obviously that means I have to buy it!!


Been playing with it today, it's awesome


----------



## KEM (Oct 31, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Been plaing with it today, it's awesome



I finished watching the walkthrough of it and it’s definitely right up my alley, and $50 isn’t a bad price at all so I’ll be picking it up soon


----------



## doctoremmet (Nov 1, 2021)




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## Geoff Moore (Nov 1, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Been playing with it today, it's awesome


Palindrome feels like Troels sat down with me and asked me exactly what a sampled synth would need to do for me to buy it. And then exceeded my every expectation. It can go to unexpectedly fragile, beautiful places, and feel like it's breathing. Never got such a strong analog feeling from a library (or a softsynth) before - the variations per note are magical. Deep emotional connection for me.

When sample import arrives I'm looking forward to morphing it with Eric Whitacre Choir


----------



## Monkberry (Nov 1, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> It was fantastic!



Did not know these guys were still around. What a great band! I used to play Dreadlock Holliday & I'm Not In Love back in my cover band days.


----------



## doctoremmet (Nov 1, 2021)

Monkberry said:


> Did not know these guys were still around. What a great band! I used to play Dreadlock Holliday & I'm Not In Love back in my cover band days.


The renditions of those two songs were very good as well. Last songs before the encore of course 

Donna (acapella) was the first song after the encore.


----------



## b_elliott (Nov 1, 2021)

KEM said:


> That being said though, I hate how everyone keeps pronouncing Ludwig Göransson wrong


That gave me a laf but I well remember Linus Torvalds stepping in to clarify how to correctly pronounce Linux -- no folks, it is not _Line-knocks_.

So, for those who may need some help, here is Troels pronouncing Ludwig's full name.

Note: The 2nd time Troels says Ludwig's name (in this mp3) I time stretched it for clarity only. 

edit: added note


----------



## doctoremmet (Nov 1, 2021)

I’d expect a Dane to be able to pronounce this Swedish name correctly though…


----------



## Drumdude2112 (Nov 1, 2021)

Is anyone running soundpaint on a regular drive ?…The ‘full’ versions will certainly take up alot of my SSD real estate.😳


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## b_elliott (Nov 1, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Is anyone running soundpaint on a regular drive ?…The ‘full’ versions will certainly take up alot of my SSD real estate.😳


I have SP on a 7200 HDD == no issues so far. Note: Using the 1928 Pno only ATM.


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## Drumdude2112 (Nov 1, 2021)

b_elliott said:


> I have SP on a 7200 HDD == no issues so far. Note: Using the 1928 Pno only ATM.


Rad 👍🏻.


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## Drumdude2112 (Nov 1, 2021)

i dig hybrid emotions a WHOLE lot.
I definitely dont have anything that sounds like it (especially when you start morphing the parts) 
Soundpaint definitely has some bugs to be worked out for sure (i found a nasty one in studio one 5 ) but its a first version so thats to be expected.
Being i’m only 50 bucks invested in the platform thus far , i definitely can’t complain lol …Having a great time with it, i like it alot.


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## Geoff Moore (Nov 1, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> i dig hybrid emotions a WHOLE lot.
> I definitely dont have anything that sounds like it (especially when you start morphing the parts)
> Soundpaint definitely has some bugs to be worked out for sure (i found a nasty one in studio one 5 ) but its a first version so thats to be expected.
> Being i’m only 50 bucks invested in the platform thus far , i definitely can’t complain lol …Having a great time with it, i like it alot.


Studio One 5 user here too, what bug did you find? Monoglide wasn't working properly for me until I update Studio One to the latest build from a few weeks back. The arp skips and goes out of time fairly frequently, but only on playback - not when recording. Haven't found any other issues. On the same PC, FL Studio has no issues with the arp whatsoever. As you say Soundpaint is new software and in beta, so I'm not surprised or annoyed (and I can always use an external arp for now) but would be great to know if other Studio One 5 users are having the same issues so I can update support.


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## Drumdude2112 (Nov 1, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> Studio One 5 user here too, what bug did you find? Monoglide wasn't working properly for me until I update Studio One to the latest build from a few weeks back. The arp skips and goes out of time fairly frequently, but only on playback - not when recording. Haven't found any other issues. On the same PC, FL Studio has no issues with the arp whatsoever. As you say Soundpaint is new software and in beta, so I'm not surprised or annoyed (and I can always use an external arp for now) but would be great to know if other Studio One 5 users are having the same issues so I can update support.


When i use soundpaint in studio one 5.4.1 on my (intel) 2020 imac running OS 11.5.2 , if i drag ANY other instument into the session , it’ll crash completely, immediately….(like S1 will completely go away lol ) If i drag soundpaint in , and i already have other instruments running in the session , if i put any other instrument into input , it’ll do the same thing (POOF 💨) So it’s unusable for me in S1 at the moment unless its the ONLY instrument i’m using in a session.
Luckily i still use cubase too , and it does NOT exibit this behavior in cubase..Hope i explained it well .
I Did contact support about it to let then know.


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## Geoff Moore (Nov 1, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> When i use soundpaint in studio one 5.4.1 on my (intel) 2020 imac running OS 11.5.2 , if i drag ANY other instument into the session , it’ll crash completely, immediately….(like S1 will completely go away lol ) If i drag soundpaint in , and i already have other instruments running in the session , if i put any other instrument into input , it’ll do the same thing (POOF 💨) So it’s unusable for me in S1 at the moment unless its the ONLY instrument i’m using in a session.
> Luckily i still use cubase too , and it does NOT exibit this behavior in cubase..Hope i explained it well .
> I Did contact support about it to let then know.


Oof, yeah I don't have that bug. On PC here. Lucky we're both multi-DAW users haha. Annoyingly I jumped to Studio One 5 recently because FL was crashing with Eastwest Opus. So no orchestral/Palindrome experiments for me until one of them gets fixed


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## X-Bassist (Nov 1, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> The potential for greater realism is also there. In one of the other threads, Troels explained why they are rolling out the sound design stuff first (mostly - the 1928 piano is an exception) and leaving the unprocessed orchestral and jazz instruments for later.
> 
> I'm not sure that Soundpaint is going to be a better VI for realism than Kontakt or Falcon or Halion.(Troels has said that it won't, although he hasn't said why not.) And I'm not sure that it's going to be a better VI for synthesis and sample-based sound design than Omnisphere or any of dozens of others. But I feel somewhat confident that it's going to be a better melding of the two that anything else so far. The only thing I'm aware of that even comes close to covering the whole continuum is Falcon.
> 
> EDIT: If Spectrasonics's new line of Sonic Expansions grows over time, it might also compete for the title of best integration of sampling and synthesis. But for the moment, the Sonic Expansions rollout is being eclipsed by Soundpaint.


Sound paint seems like hype and nothing new or innovative, if nothing else than the filters and fx don’t sound as good as Omni or U-He, which is why those synths are worth the price. Soundpaint seems to be surviving on Troells enthusiasm and money from their most popular instruments. Which is ironically orchestral instruments in Kontakt.

How many sold Adagio sets and revisions were made to bring you this…. Synth? 😀

i think he just loves synths so much, he really wants to make one. He should take Urs to lunch and offer him a giant commission. SP Zebra is born… then maybe I can finally get some use out of mine after I upgrade. 😂


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## Troels Folmann (Nov 1, 2021)

To me, SP is an analog-style Hybrid Sampler. I already made two analog-digital hardware synths (Prophet X/XL) together with Dave Smith / Sequential, so my desires for creating synths (in a traditional sense) are fulfilled.

My journey - and obsession - is more towards a pursuit of realism. So things feel and sound more realistic. I feel we are starting to hit the roof of what is achievable with conventional sampling technologies and therefore decided to create a more liquid audio format.


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## KEM (Nov 1, 2021)

b_elliott said:


> That gave me a laf but I well remember Linus Torvalds stepping in to clarify how to correctly pronounce Linux -- no folks, it is not _Lying-knocks_.
> 
> So, for those who may need some help, here is Troels pronouncing Ludwig's full name.
> 
> ps. Possibly this will stand as my greatest contribution to the vi forum.





doctoremmet said:


> I’d expect a Dane to be able to pronounce this Swedish name correctly though…



To be fair though he might be doing it on purpose because Ludwig himself says his name wrong in videos and interviews, I’d imagine it’s because non-Nords wouldn’t know how to pronounce it correctly


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## axb312 (Nov 1, 2021)

If I may offer a different opinion, while Sound paint seems extremely cost effective at first, I am starting to have my doubts. 

Palindrome has 60 sound sources, at 50 USD. 

Hybrid emotions is drones, booms and impact (no whooshes, risers or slams) for 50 USD. 

Apparently a palindrome 2 is planned. And a modern analog percussion. 

I think the particular synths used in Palindrome 1 should have been encompassed in one volume to maximize value for money and truly make soundpaint affordable. 

I also think releasing commonly used trailer FX as sets for 50 USD each will prove expensive. 

From Troels thoughts earlier I thought this was truly going to affordable for all. 

I'm also quite sure most people will not agree with me. Time will tell though, Once a lot more soundpaint instruments that we'll all want are out.


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## Geoff Moore (Nov 1, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> Sound paint seems like hype and nothing new or innovative, if nothing else than the filters and fx don’t sound as good as Omni or U-He, which is why those synths are worth the price. Soundpaint seems to be surviving on Troells enthusiasm and money from their most popular instruments. Which is ironically orchestral instruments in Kontakt.
> 
> How many sold Adagio sets and revisions were made to bring you this…. Synth? 😀
> 
> i think he just loves synths so much, he really wants to make one. He should take Urs to lunch and offer him a giant commission. SP Zebra is born… then maybe I can finally get some use out of mine after I upgrade. 😂


The way a filter or effect works when placed in a synth's signal chain is completely different to how they work when applied to samples. Also you seem to be making a comparison based on price? But Soundpaint and its effects are free - so I'd be interested to see your working 

I honestly don't know if this is down to excellent effects, excellent source material (which of course often already has all kinds of 'effects' that make up the sample synth sound) or excellent preset design (I suspect a combination of all three), but I think the effects in Soundpaint sound wayyy better than the ones in Kontakt. Palindrome is just blowing my mind.

That said, if you have EW Spaces II, throw one of the instrument showcase piano presets on the free Soundpaint piano and bliss...

The 'hype' isn't about filters and effects anyway, it's mostly about the morphing and the dynamic response. There's lots to discover in Soundpaint.


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## Bman70 (Nov 1, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> The 'hype' isn't about filters and effects anyway, it's mostly about the morphing and the dynamic response. There's lots to discover in Soundpaint.


From what I've read, the main hype seems to be increased realism also. As someone mentioned, this seems somewhat at odds with the morphing feature, which seems to be the opposite of realism (pianos don't morph with wind in real life).

Frankly I think the soundscape / abstract / atmospheric library market has been saturated for a while. Between Etheras, Omnisphere, Falcon, and all the Neos etc., if you can't make enough strange gated hybrid sounds, pads, arps, then buying another library won't help.

That leaves hyper realism as I think the most standout feature of Soundpaint. I don't know if I've seen much yet that really demonstrates this to a revolutionary degree. One marketing point has been things "feeling" more realistic as well as sound realism. I get that this could happen with a piano, but with a sampled guitar for instance, a keyboard will never feel realistically like a guitar. So I'm still curious to hear users' experiences with that.


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## rrichard63 (Nov 1, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> From what I've read, the main hype seems to be increased realism also. As someone mentioned, this seems somewhat at odds with the morphing feature, which seems to be the opposite of realism (pianos don't morph with wind in real life).
> 
> Frankly I think the soundscape / abstract / atmospheric library market has been saturated for a while. Between Etheras, Omnisphere, Falcon, and all the Neos etc., if you can't make enough strange gated hybrid sounds, pads, arps, then buying another library won't help.
> 
> That leaves hyper realism as I think the most standout feature of Soundpaint. I don't know if I've seen much yet that really demonstrates this to a revolutionary degree. One marketing point has been things "feeling" more realistic as well as sound realism. I get that this could happen with a piano, but with a sampled guitar for instance, a keyboard will never feel realistically like a guitar. So I'm still curious to hear users' experiences with that.


I suspect that Troels is using the words "realism" and "realistic" in a rather idiosyncratic way, and that he doesn't mean what most of us mean when we say that violin library XYZ sounds very realistic. I don't think I know exactly what he does mean. Maybe something like "finally, this is the [hybrid] sound I am hearing in my head and have been trying to learn how to produce in software". Or maybe something like "this sound makes the emotional content of the music feel real and alive to me".


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## Colin66 (Nov 1, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Wow! Got to love a bit of 10CC. I used to listen to their albums quite a bit.


They're touring the UK next year. I'm probably going to see them in Croydon, Oct. 2022!


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## Colin66 (Nov 1, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> Sound paint seems like hype and nothing new or innovative, if nothing else than the filters and fx don’t sound as good as Omni or U-He, which is why those synths are worth the price. Soundpaint seems to be surviving on Troells enthusiasm and money from their most popular instruments. Which is ironically orchestral instruments in Kontakt.
> 
> How many sold Adagio sets and revisions were made to bring you this…. Synth? 😀
> 
> i think he just loves synths so much, he really wants to make one. He should take Urs to lunch and offer him a giant commission. SP Zebra is born… then maybe I can finally get some use out of mine after I upgrade. 😂


The least you could do is spell the guys name correctly.


----------



## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)




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## Futchibon (Nov 1, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> Sound paint seems like hype and nothing new or innovative


I think that's unfair. Have you tried it? I'm more of an orchestral than synth guy so the initial offerings weren't exactly what I was expecting, but I've been blown away by Palindrome.

Soundpaint is

* Free!
* Loads super fast!
* Has a great FREE Steinway!
* Doesn't have phasing
* Has an amazing mophing feature
* Apparently will be able to accept other samples in a future update



X-Bassist said:


> if nothing else than the filters and fx don’t sound as good as Omni or U-He,


Omisphere 2 is good, but way overpriced IMO and many of the sounds sound like they're a decade old. I would have sold it if it wasn't for the 3rd party patches, which are about the same price as the SP libraries.


X-Bassist said:


> How many sold Adagio sets and revisions were made to bring you this…. Synth? 😀


I'd wait and see what the orchestral offerings are before passing judgement. Curious to see how the choir performs!





axb312 said:


> From Troels thoughts earlier I thought this was truly going to affordable for all.


I'm curious to know what price you think is affordable to all?


axb312 said:


> I'm also quite sure most people will not agree with me.


Agreed!


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## Futchibon (Nov 1, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> Palindrome is just blowing my mind.


The word that comes to mind when I play it is WOW

It loads faster than a RACECAR

For those who like TENET this should definitely be on your RADAR

See what I DID there?


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## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)

OK, I installed SoundPaint, and the Free Piano.

Which Expansion Library would you recommend adding to it ?

One comment. I find it a bit difficult to buy Synths that need 80+ GB of sample content for SoundPaint, when I have fantastic sounding VST Synths that require zero samples.


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## Double Helix (Nov 1, 2021)

When it comes to acquiring the funds for Soundpaint *TM* "BORROW OR ROB"?


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## Bemused (Nov 1, 2021)

The whole effects section I think is worthy of being ported to it's own vst. I would love to insert it on other instruments/channels.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 1, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> Sound paint seems like hype and nothing new or innovative, if nothing else than the filters and fx don’t sound as good as Omni or U-He, which is why those synths are worth the price. Soundpaint seems to be surviving on Troells enthusiasm and money from their most popular instruments. Which is ironically orchestral instruments in Kontakt.
> 
> How many sold Adagio sets and revisions were made to bring you this…. Synth? 😀
> 
> i think he just loves synths so much, he really wants to make one. He should take Urs to lunch and offer him a giant commission. SP Zebra is born… then maybe I can finally get some use out of mine after I upgrade. 😂


Odd. I would never think of Soundpaint as a synth. It has sample libraries of synth sounds, and it enables one particular form of resynthesis. It is definitely a playground for sound shaping and customisation.

What makes it most special is the infinite velocity layers. That's great for sample libraries. It is this and the morphing that attracts me. The internal effects are convenient and useful for presets. I have my own filters, EQ and so on. 

Time will tell if Soundpaint's approach to velocity works for people. I'm still working on getting my libraries installed and working, so I don't have much of a view yet. I like it so far.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Nov 1, 2021)

X-Bassist said:


> Sound paint seems like hype and nothing new or innovative, if nothing else than the filters and fx don’t sound as good as Omni or U-He, which is why those synths are worth the price. Soundpaint seems to be surviving on Troells enthusiasm and money from their most popular instruments. Which is ironically orchestral instruments in Kontakt.
> 
> How many sold Adagio sets and revisions were made to bring you this…. Synth? 😀
> 
> i think he just loves synths so much, he really wants to make one. He should take Urs to lunch and offer him a giant commission. SP Zebra is born… then maybe I can finally get some use out of mine after I upgrade. 😂





Futchibon said:


> I think that's unfair. Have you tried it? I'm more of an orchestral than synth guy so the initial offerings weren't exactly what I was expecting, but I've been blown away by Palindrome.
> 
> Soundpaint is
> 
> ...



I'm not one who got Palindrome at all I just think people are completely missing an aspect of it that whatever you make in it you can further modify with morphing and with anything you have creating more sounds not in the package. So really you have a synth with parts that can be re-contextualized in as many ways as you have additional libraries in soundpaint and in varying degrees along a morphline. The variations on that are enormous.


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## José Herring (Nov 1, 2021)

Ummmmm.....just downloaded it and trying it out. It's cool. It sounds fantasticly pristine. The arpeggiator is fantastic. The FX are crystal clear. This could be a game changer. I want to try and get the synths and see what can be done with those. The piano was nothing special but then what you can do with those samples is pretty cool. Potential money pit for me though but 8dios prices have always been good. 

Wonder what's going to happen to 8dio now? Soundpaint is clearly a future path extending sampling beyond what is currently happening. Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned but what is the possibility for 3rd party devs?


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## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned but what is the possibility for 3rd party devs?


If you haven’t seen it yet, there’s a page on the Soundpaint site:









Wanna become a Soundpaint Developer?


Soundpaint™ is advanced artistic expression in your computer. Designed by artists and for artists. There are no VC investors here. Soundpaint is entirely a community-sponsored platform. We take pride in our independence and being able to develop creative tools designed around everyday workflow...




soundpaint.com


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 1, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Ummmmm.....just downloaded it and trying it out.  It's cool. It sounds fantasticly pristine. The arpeggiator is fantastic. The FX are crystal clear. This could be a game changer. I want to try and get the synths and see what can be done with those. The piano was nothing special but then what you can do with those samples is pretty cool. Potential money pit for me though but 8dios prices have always been good.
> 
> Wonder what's going to happen to 8dio now? Soundpaint is clearly a future path extending sampling beyond what is currently happening. Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned but what is the possibility for 3rd party devs?


I believe Troels himself said that they are already working with third-party developers.

I disagree about the piano not being something special. It’s the nicest playing sample-library piano I’ve tried. Of course, the sound won’t be to everyone’s taste. Old strings mean a less bright sound.


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## Futchibon (Nov 1, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> I disagree about the piano not being something special. It’s the nicest playing sample-library piano I’ve tried. Of course, the sound won’t be to everyone’s taste. Old strings mean a less bright sound.


Yeah I love it! 


José Herring said:


> The piano was nothing special


I'm guessing you have Embertone's Walker? Which sounds pretty amazing, have to get it soon...


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## Futchibon (Nov 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> OK, I installed SoundPaint, and the Free Piano.
> 
> Which Expansion Library would you recommend adding to it ?
> 
> One comment. I find it a bit difficult to buy Synths that need 80+ GB of sample content for SoundPaint, when I have fantastic sounding VST Synths that require zero samples.


Apparently new instruments will be released weekly, so if none grab you I'd wait. I'm looking forward to the orchestral ones. An appealing one should come along sooner than Berlin ports to Sine


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## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Apparently new instruments will be released weekly, so if none grab you I'd wait. I'm looking forward to the orchestral ones. An appealing one should come along sooner than Berlin ports to Sine


I will be in a convalescent home, sipping tea, and playing bingo when they release Berlin Series in SINE.


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## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Apparently new instruments will be released weekly, so if none grab you I'd wait. I'm looking forward to the orchestral ones


I don't know when some great orchestral instruments will be made available for Soundpaint, I just wish some of the Synth libraries were not so much SSD space demanding. 

Anyone buy *Palindrome* ? 

At $50. and needs 60.7 GB of disc space. Is the only one that I might entertain at this point.


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## Nico5 (Nov 1, 2021)

Maybe I missed it, or has anyone done a side by side audio comparison between a UDS and a regular version of a Soundpaint instrument yet?


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## poly6 (Nov 1, 2021)

OK, I was really, really hoping for something magical with the 1928 Vintage Grand Steinway. I know it is based on the 8dio 1928 piano, which I have but I have given up on. But it basically has the same problem, even with all its supposed layers. My problem with it is that it has uneven notes such that you can't play smoothly on it without some notes sticking out. I challenge anyone to play a smooth C scale from C2 to C3. There are others but that section seems to be the worst to me.

So the 127 velocity layer are great, but if the original instrument is uneven (or the original samples were uneven) such that side by side notes played with the same velocity don't have the same timbre then the 127 velocity layers don't help. Given that the original piano is almost 100 years old and still is with its original strings, this just may be how the piano sounds. And I know I'm probably being incredibly picky but it just bothers me when I'm playing and then suddenly a note just sticks out. 

Don't get me wrong - for the most part it is an beautiful sounding piano, especially over its mid and upper octaves. And at least the piano was free..... It just shows that Soundpaint may be an incredible tool but it is still limited if the original instrument was flawed (or the original samples are flawed). I'm pretty sure at some future point, there will be another piano released for Soundpaint and I look forward to that, as I don't think this is fundamentally a problem with Soundpaint itself.


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## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)

I find the highest dynamics of the free Piano sound odd, unnatural sounding to my ears. I try to avoid playing at those higher dynamics, not that easy though.


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## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)




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## muziksculp (Nov 1, 2021)

Hi,

I got Palindrome installed, and had a few minutes to play some programs, I love the sounds, very high quality, full bodied, not thin, or tinny. I guess the large sample pool Soundpaint uses is for a good cause, nice analog character, which is what the samples are from. 

With the great effects of Soundpaint, and the other sound sculpting option, and rea time controls, it can deliver a lot. I will be using it for Hybrid Scoring applications, and sonic ambiences. Love the GUI, and CPU utilization is pretty low, so having a few instances of Soundpaint loaded with Palindrome can do quite provide a lot of sonic power. 

Oh, and a few times I was typing Soundpaint in a rush, I kept typing 'Soundpain' instead. Hehe.. It's easy to rename it Soundpain by mistake  

If you are looking for a useful synth/sound design type of instrument, I do recommend Palindrome. 

Hope this is helpful feedback. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## Guido Pannekoek (Nov 1, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Omisphere 2 is good, but way overpriced IMO and many of the sounds sound like they're a decade old. I would have sold it if it wasn't for the 3rd party patches, which are about the same price as the SP libraries.


I listend to a lot of soundpacks for Omnisphere abd watched some video's about it and I got to the same conclusion like before. It's nice to make sounds for games on a Atari 2600, it sounds outdated and very non natural, not realistic and clumqy. I'm still waiting for somebody who can show or make me listening to something made with Omnisphere that does not sound like sounds from before 1950.


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## Junolab (Nov 2, 2021)

Guido Pannekoek said:


> I listend to a lot of soundpacks for Omnisphere abd watched some video's about it and I got to the same conclusion like before. It's nice to make sounds for games on a Atari 2600, it sounds outdated and very non natural, not realistic and clumqy. I'm still waiting for somebody who can show or make me listening to something made with Omnisphere that does not sound like sounds from before 1950.


So a big portion of Top 100 billboard tracks sounds like something from before 1950? That's new to me :D It's awesome there are new players in this field and you gotta give Soundpaint that their marketing is absolutely pristine. Perhaps their product is as well, but personally, its a warning sign (might be wrong though) that there is so much focus on the infinite layers and tons of samples instead of the quality of each sample. But the more competition the better for us audio nerds...


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## doctoremmet (Nov 2, 2021)

Guido Pannekoek said:


> It's nice to make sounds for games on a Atari 2600, it sounds outdated and very non natural, not realistic and clumqy.


¿Que? It becomes apparent you may have never heard an actual Atari 2600. Nor Omnisphere. I don’t get the juxtaposition frankly. Is there a need for it?


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## Fizzlewig (Nov 2, 2021)

I think we are all going to need new / larger hard drives! I wish 8dio could follow what UVI have been able to achieve with their own compression format. I love Soundpaint so far, but the size of the libraries and storage space required for them could end up being a sticking point. I’m surprised @Troels Folmann has not been able to achieve this with a new audio format? Having a lot of fun so far though.


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## IgneousOne (Nov 2, 2021)

Could someone point me to a video that hilights the morphing features, as somewhat underwhelmed so far.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 2, 2021)

IgneousOne said:


> Could someone point me to a video that hilights the morphing features, as somewhat underwhelmed so far.




This video showcases the morphing a lot. However, this mostly shows morphing untuned sounds with tuned, musical ones. 

As someone who has a lot of morphing software, this was a big deal for me. The velocity layers that it enables is really the major innovation for realism; but my preference for realism would be to spend the money on more acoustic instruments. That's not much good for those making orchestral music, though!


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## Werty (Nov 2, 2021)

Morphing needs to be exploited differently, but not with reverb and effects. Especially for piano, where a chord sounds totally different from layers of single notes samples. Midi can't predict if you will play a single note or a chord, but after you have played them, the morphing could trigger different samples, for example a single note sample could morph into a chord sample, this would be revolutionary for piano vst.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 2, 2021)

Werty said:


> Morphing needs to be exploited differently, but not with reverb and effects. Especially for piano, where a chord sounds totally different from layers of single notes samples. Midi can't predict if you will play a single note or a chord, but after you have played them, the morphing could trigger different samples, for example a single note sample could morph into a chord sample, this would be revolutionary for piano vst.


I'm not sure what you mean about reverb and effects - I'd think of those a separate way of developing the sound. Reverb and delay marry very well with morphing. Delay is great because it enables you to get multiple stages of the morph playing at the same time.

Your points about the piano, and any instrument that resonates differently with multiple notes, is excellent and I completely agree. I think that 127 velocity layers is a major innovation in itself, which we've just had; and that the chord samples should be entirely possible with this new technology, though I expect a lot of work would have to go in to reducing any increased CPU burden. So the revolution may have already happened, so that we just have to watch the follow through as it develops.


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## Werty (Nov 2, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Your points about the piano, and any instrument that resonates differently with multiple notes, is excellent and I completely agree. I think that 127 velocity layers is a major innovation in itself, which we've just had; and that the chord samples should be entirely possible with this new technology, though I expect a lot of work would have to go in to reducing any increased CPU burden. So the revolution may have already happened, so that we just have to watch the follow through as it develops.


yes, I suppose they will introduce the new samples gradually, using shortcuts, starting with two notes chord maybe.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 2, 2021)

Werty said:


> yes, I suppose they will introduce the new samples gradually, using shortcuts, starting with two notes chord maybe.


I think they have maybe taken on too much all at once. It may be a few years more before we see the most exciting things that Soundpaint can do if they are devoting a lot of their attention to releasing libraries. But maybe it is all in hand.

And I realise what you meant about other effects, such as reverb, now. Yes, they won't provide anything like multiple string resonances feeding off each other.


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## Geoff Moore (Nov 2, 2021)

Werty said:


> Midi can't predict if you will play a single note or a chord, but after you have played them, the morphing could trigger different samples, for example a single note sample could morph into a chord sample, this would be revolutionary for piano vst.



Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I follow - how would the engine know what chord to morph into? Would there be a multi-sample for every common chord (in every inversion? Imagine the space required per instrument...), so you have your normal piano in one slot and one chord loaded into the other? And then what happens when you want a different chord to morph into, a new instance of Soundpaint? I might be completely misunderstanding, just curious as to you'd imagine this might work in practice.



Bee_Abney said:


> I think they have maybe taken on too much all at once. It may be a few years more before we see the most exciting things that Soundpaint can do if they are devoting a lot of their attention to releasing libraries. But maybe it is all in hand.



Apparently a huge amount of the ~100 currently planned Soundpaint libraries are finished and ready for release. I heard that 1-2 libraries will be released a week on the Discord. So that should allow time for a lot of focus on the engine. Poly legato approaches! Troels mentioned somewhere having plans for the next eight generations of Soundpaint, I get the impression he's just getting started


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 2, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I follow - how would the engine know what chord to morph into? Would there be a multi-sample for every common chord (in every inversion? Imagine the space required per instrument...), so you have your normal piano in one slot and one chord loaded into the other? And then what happens when you want a different chord to morph into, a new instance of Soundpaint? I might be completely misunderstanding, just curious as to you'd imagine this might work in practice.
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently a huge amount of the ~100 currently planned Soundpaint libraries are finished and ready for release. I heard that 2 libraries will be released a week, I think on the Discord. So that should allow time for a lot of focus on the engine. Poly legato approaches! Troels mentioned somewhere having plans for the next eight generations of Soundpaint, I get the impression he's just getting started


Dear, sweet, elusive Poly?!?!?!

Troels is certainly not guilty of thinking small; and I like it! (Details like having products downloadable at launch and retroactively calling the launch a public Beta,...)


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 2, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I follow - how would the engine know what chord to morph into? Would there be a multi-sample for every common chord (in every inversion? Imagine the space required per instrument...), so you have your normal piano in one slot and one chord loaded into the other? And then what happens when you want a different chord to morph into, a new instance of Soundpaint? I might be completely misunderstanding, just curious as to you'd imagine this might work in practice.


Here's my thinking. You teach the AI to morph any collection of X number of notes into a plausibly realistic simulacrum of playing those notes on a real piano. So, it is like the infinite velocity layers - you don't need samples for all of the velocity layers, you morph into them, rendering in real time.


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## Geoff Moore (Nov 2, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Here's my thinking. You teach the AI to morph any collection of X number of notes into a plausibly realistic simulacrum of playing those notes on a real piano. So, it is like the infinite velocity layers - you don't need samples for all of the velocity layers, you morph into them, rendering in real time.


Neat concept! And of course could be extended to strings resonating etc etc... One of the most amazing features for me is the analog variations 'taught to the AI' in Palindrome, so who knows what's possible?

I really hope you get your products downloaded and installed soon, must be incredibly frustrating. Is there any possibility of trying to download and install them on another PC, copy the files over to your music machine on a flash drive and 'locate' the libraries? (I don't know if Soundpaint can do this, but other players can).


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 2, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> Neat concept! And of course could be extended to strings resonating etc etc... One of the most amazing features for me is the analog variations 'taught to the AI' in Palindrome, so who knows what's possible?
> 
> I really hope you get your products downloaded and installed soon, must be incredibly frustrating. Is there any possibility of trying to download and install them on another PC, copy the files over to your music machine on a flash drive and 'locate' the libraries? (I don't know if Soundpaint can do this, but other players can).


Various problems have been solved since the launch; some things improved and some got worse! I think - I hope - that the remaining issue is easily fixable by Support. It should just be a matter of revising my account now to give me access to everything I bought.

And, hey, I got the piano, drums and nuns to play with while working on it!


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## Evans (Nov 2, 2021)

Are there any good user examples of Palindrome floating around, yet?


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## Dirtgrain (Nov 2, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> However, this mostly shows morphing untuned sounds with tuned, musical ones.


I've used Zynaptic Morph some over the years, and I get the best results with this combo--morphing a tonal sound with something atonal, like a synth lead with a drum loop. I am curious about successes others have with morphing. I tend to spend some time in just choosing samples to morph, then getting disappointed--repeat. Any good combinations? Any theory or concepts that govern decisions in choosing samples to morph?

I was just thinking that multiband morphing might be cool. Or maybe a way to EQ each sample before morphing.


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## gamma-ut (Nov 2, 2021)

Dirtgrain said:


> I've used Zynaptic Morph some over the years, and I get the best results with this combo--morphing a tonal sound with something atonal, like a synth lead with a drum loop. I am curious about successes others have with morphing. I tend to spend some time in just choosing samples to morph, then getting disappointed--repeat. Any good combinations? Any theory or concepts that govern decisions in choosing samples to morph?
> 
> I was just thinking that multiband morphing might be cool. Or maybe a way to EQ each sample before morphing.


This is the reality of morphing. Sometimes vocoding works better; sometimes morphing works better; sometimes it just sounds like you've added a noise layer. Sometimes it just doesn't work at all (and it's a similar story for convolution). I don't think there's a hard and fast rule on what works and what doesn't - some things I'd expect to provide usable results just winds up as indistinct noisy burble. The G-Brass parts provide some examples there if you try them (not in the presets - this is if you try to combine some of the synthetic sources with the acoustic sources).

A lot of it, I think, comes down to a difference between how the DSP works and how people perceive the results. Sometimes the harmonics just don't line up well between the two sources and the algorithm doesn't have a way to compensate. Pitchshifting the secondary source can make a big difference because it helps the harmonics align.

It's possible better morphing techniques will come from the world of machine learning. Something like a generative adversarial network can use other ways of linking two sounds that aren't just based on frequency bins: but the CPU demand might make it tricky to pull off.


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## Werty (Nov 2, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I follow - how would the engine know what chord to morph into? Would there be a multi-sample for every common chord (in every inversion? Imagine the space required per instrument...), so you have your normal piano in one slot and one chord loaded into the other? And then what happens when you want a different chord to morph into, a new instance of Soundpaint? I might be completely misunderstanding, just curious as to you'd imagine this might work in practice.
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently a huge amount of the ~100 currently planned Soundpaint libraries are finished and ready for release. I heard that 2 libraries will be released a week, I think on the Discord. So that should allow time for a lot of focus on the engine. Poly legato approaches! Troels mentioned somewhere having plans for the next eight generations of Soundpaint, I get the impression he's just getting started


The engine would know which chord you are playing, but morphing into a new sample needs a lot of shortcuts, because you can't sample millions of combinations. So it would be nice to start from a few combinations, giving priority to what's happening in the mid range of the keyboard, ignoring the treble, and ignoring maybe chords with more than 2 notes at once. Or maybe they will find different solutions, I really don't know.


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## jneebz (Nov 2, 2021)

Guido Pannekoek said:


> I listend to a lot of soundpacks for Omnisphere abd watched some video's about it and I got to the same conclusion like before. It's nice to make sounds for games on a Atari 2600, it sounds outdated and very non natural, not realistic and clumqy. I'm still waiting for somebody who can show or make me listening to something made with Omnisphere that does not sound like sounds from before 1950.


Pfffft…..yeah that old dusty Omnisphere….what a junker. Nobody is using that anymore….. 

#sarcasm


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 2, 2021)

Dirtgrain said:


> I've used Zynaptic Morph some over the years, and I get the best results with this combo--morphing a tonal sound with something atonal, like a synth lead with a drum loop. I am curious about successes others have with morphing. I tend to spend some time in just choosing samples to morph, then getting disappointed--repeat. Any good combinations? Any theory or concepts that govern decisions in choosing samples to morph?
> 
> I was just thinking that multiband morphing might be cool. Or maybe a way to EQ each sample before morphing.


I like the multiband idea. Lower frequencies in brass and rock, higher frequencies in strings and glass, all sounding like one instrument? Oh, I'm going to have to try that now, aren't I?

My most musical successes have been taking two midi instruments with similar attack and sustain and morphing those in real time. Then you can play, say a singing trumpet, or an overblown viola. I have also done a lot of work morphing voices to create new voices that are as realistic as possible. I can rarely shed the tonal aura of artifice, but I am amazed at what can be done. In certain musical contexts, the slight ring of effects work can even be very desirable - something you'd do for an unmorphed voice.

What I haven't done is much monster/robot style voice work. Except when playing. But that is an area I want to get into also.

The attached MP3 is very much a work in progress. Please forgive the horrible timing on the rhythm, that is all yet to be fixed. The voice is made out of two separate vocal libraries, Celtia from Medievial Legends Vocal Codex and Voices of Empire. This enables me to have the basic timbre of Celtia, but the vocal inflections at the end of Voices of Empire.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 2, 2021)

It brings back memories of the late 1970s, when Digital Native Dance was all over my game soundtracks.


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## ControlCentral (Nov 2, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> Actually Dirk demonstrated the difference a bit more thoroughly, in his live video. It certainly appears different from just layering / fading two sounds. Almost like some kind of EQ matching or filtering is going on.


So...something like AET in Kontakt?


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 2, 2021)

ControlCentral said:


> So...something like AET in Kontakt?


Yes, basically. The physics isn't new to music technology, but the technology is a new and much more effective way of achieving this. 

I don't know enough of the underlying science, but I know that spectral information can be gathered and used more or less effectively and in different ways. I should think that the new audio format provides a more efficient route to real time morphing that we are more likely to find semi-natural sounding.


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## Bman70 (Nov 2, 2021)

ControlCentral said:


> So...something like AET in Kontakt?


Not familiar with that so I can't speculate. From what I saw / heard, the morphing has quite mixed results, and appears to require a lot of experimentation before you hit on something pleasant... During which a lot of strange, noisy, even unpleasant sounds can get generated. So it's not as easy to use or as immediately musical as something like crossfading, which leaves each sound intact. But it's clearly a powerful tool, probably not as useful for a live performance due to unpredictability.


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## WindcryMusic (Nov 2, 2021)

The Palindrome walkthrough had rekindled my interest in Soundpaint … up until I signed up for an account and the resulting download email said that I wouldnt be able to run it on MacOS 10.13.6 (High Sierra). I’m pretty disappointed in that, although their chat support suggested they may expand the supported OS versions in the future. I do wish the Soundpaint website had listed the OS requirements somewhere (or if they are there, then somewhere easier to find).

On a positive note, I guess I shouldn’t be spending more money on stuff like this anyway, so maybe this limitation did me a favor.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 2, 2021)

WindcryMusic said:


> The Palindrome walkthrough had rekindled my interest in Soundpaint … up until I signed up for an account and the resulting download email said that I wouldnt be able to run it on MacOS 10.13.6 (High Sierra). I’m pretty disappointed in that, although their chat support suggested they may expand the supported OS versions in the future. I do wish the Soundpaint website had listed the OS requirements somewhere (or if they are there, then somewhere easier to find).
> 
> On a positive note, I guess I shouldn’t be spending more money on stuff like this anyway, so maybe this limitation did me a favor.


They ran into problems with some Macs, I guess they aren't expecting to fix it soon. That's very frustrating.


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## ControlCentral (Nov 2, 2021)

*el-bo* pretty much nailed my initial feelings about this item at this early juncture yet I feel somehow compelled to chime-in anyway. =)
I purposely stayed away from the hubbub until a product was ready to drop for multiple reasons, partly related to the provenance of the product (which I'll address below.)
From my background as an audio guy vs composer:
This seems to be sort of a Nebula/ Acustica/ Acqua convolution-kernal approach to synthesis/ sampling which seems like a great idea.
Just tried the piano and, although I wasn't thrilled with it's "realism", I was thrilled with it's (what I'm calling) _fidelity_.
One issue that I have with Kontakt is that, although it's the workhorse that we all know and love, the fidelity kind of blows.
I once tried to figure out if it was a DFD or SRC thing but my results were inconclusive. Anyone use Engine? I don't know what the secret sauce is but it's just cleaner and clearer, like 24 bit vs 16 bit, like a Whirlwind DI vs a custom Neve transformer DI. Many won't care but that floats my boat.
So from that perspective I feel like this product has potential for me personally (esp with user sample ability) since I really like the sound-design-as-music nexus.
That said, I was pointedly not impressed with the demos I've seen, the "morphing" just sounded like cross fading and I'm quite happy with my old Galaxy-X.
TBH I was hoping for a feeling like I had when I went to see Pat Metheny do a live demo of the Synclavier where he played a marching band sample on his guitar (yes, I'm that old) but stirrings came there none.
Also, dead-honest, I've cometo have a bit of disdain 8DIO. I feel like they are overpromisers who underdeliver or, as others have perhaps more charitably put it, Troels is just very _enthusiastic. _Which I agree with-- one of his mutant powers seems to be to get everyone hyped on his vision-- but beyond the sizzle, I have judged the steaks I've bought from them in the past and found them wanting, which is why I'm wary. The complaints I've seen about "50 Braaaahms for $50" totally comport with that. I can see this is a razor-and-blade type endeavor.
I didn't come here to dunk on them but wanted to be honest about my potential misgivings.
Soooo, bottom line initial impression: Seems fun, has potential, *love the "sound" (*which will probably be the thing that gets me aboard), and interface but hype notwithstanding I doubt this will be much of a game changer for me although I've added it to my list of proprietary downloader password managers.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 2, 2021)

Dirtgrain said:


> I've used Zynaptic Morph some over the years, and I get the best results with this combo--morphing a tonal sound with something atonal, like a synth lead with a drum loop. I am curious about successes others have with morphing. I tend to spend some time in just choosing samples to morph, then getting disappointed--repeat. Any good combinations? Any theory or concepts that govern decisions in choosing samples to morph?
> 
> I was just thinking that multiband morphing might be cool. Or maybe a way to EQ each sample before morphing.


Okay, I know you didn't ask for this... But, here is a very rough ditty with a sample instrument made from low bands morphing bras and rock and high bands mixing strings and rung glass, and a little cross over in the middle. I don't know if it was worth the effort! I did this with public domain samples as I originally was just going to post a single sample. I think better results could come with better brass and strings.


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## Dirtgrain (Nov 2, 2021)

Cool sounds, showing the potential of multiband morphing. I'll mess around with a jury rigged, multi-track setup with Soundpaint in Ableton Live.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 2, 2021)

Dirtgrain said:


> Cool sounds, showing the potential of multiband morphing. I'll mess around with a jury rigged, multi-track setup with Soundpaint in Ableton Live.


Good plan! And thanks!


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## IgneousOne (Nov 3, 2021)

Cheers,
The morphing isn't as dramatic as I thought it may be.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 3, 2021)

IgneousOne said:


> Cheers,
> The morphing isn't as dramatic as I thought it may be.


It can add a new flavour, though, and give you sounds you can't get with layering. Try adding modulation to the morph level.


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## Dr.Quest (Nov 3, 2021)

WindcryMusic said:


> The Palindrome walkthrough had rekindled my interest in Soundpaint … up until I signed up for an account and the resulting download email said that I wouldnt be able to run it on MacOS 10.13.6 (High Sierra). I’m pretty disappointed in that, although their chat support suggested they may expand the supported OS versions in the future. I do wish the Soundpaint website had listed the OS requirements somewhere (or if they are there, then somewhere easier to find).
> 
> On a positive note, I guess I shouldn’t be spending more money on stuff like this anyway, so maybe this limitation did me a favor.


I am running just fine on High Sierra. You need to unpack the libraries manually from the downloaded zip files but that’s all. Runs beautifully here. Fast, low cpu. No problems.


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## WindcryMusic (Nov 3, 2021)

Dr.Quest said:


> I am running just fine on High Sierra. You need to unpack the libraries manually from the downloaded zip files but that’s all. Runs beautifully here. Fast, low cpu. No problems.


That's interesting. So evidently there are problems on some High Sierra systems, but not all. I'm still inclined to wait until their support for High Sierra has been made official. After all, it's not like I'm being rushed by trying to get in on a sale price or anything.


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## Geoff Moore (Nov 3, 2021)

WindcryMusic said:


> That's interesting. So evidently there are problems on some High Sierra systems, but not all. I'm still inclined to wait until their support for High Sierra has been made official. After all, it's not like I'm being rushed by trying to get in on a sale price or anything.


The engine and piano are free, if you can get those running you should be good to go


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## WindcryMusic (Nov 3, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> The engine and piano are free, if you can get those running you should be good to go


But do we know what the specific problem that it has on some High Sierra systems is? Support was non-specific about that. If it is a simple case of it really running or crashing, that's one thing ... if having it installed takes down the DAW, that's quite another.


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## Geoff Moore (Nov 3, 2021)

WindcryMusic said:


> But do we know what the specific problem that it has on some High Sierra systems is? Support was non-specific about that. If it is a simple case of it really running or crashing, that's one thing ... if having it installed takes down the DAW, that's quite another.


As far as I know the issue is with the downloader (separate app) extracting and installing libraries, not with the player itself. But I could be wrong, and you're sensible to be cautious.


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## Dr.Quest (Nov 3, 2021)

WindcryMusic said:


> But do we know what the specific problem that it has on some High Sierra systems is? Support was non-specific about that. If it is a simple case of it really running or crashing, that's one thing ... if having it installed takes down the DAW, that's quite another.


I haven't heard of any other problem except for the downloader. Are there other rumors?
When I contacted support I received this reply --- *"We have had issues with Mac OS 10.13.6 where the downloader does not want to unpack the libraries. Manually unpacking seems to be the only option at this point. Glad you were able to figure it out."*


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 4, 2021)

With the help of the wonderful Hawk from Support, I have finally got my Soundpaint libraries installed. When I only got partial installation, the sound quality was poor, and it is now fantastic! So good!


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## Geoff Moore (Nov 4, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> With the help of the wonderful Hawk from Support, I have finally got my Soundpaint libraries installed. When I only got partial installation, the sound quality was poor, and it is now fantastic! So good!


Yay!!! I'm so happy for you, now go paint, have fun! Or should that be have _nun_?!

I'll get my coat.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 4, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> Yay!!! I'm so happy for you, now go paint, have fun! Or should that be have _nun_?!
> 
> I'll get my coat.


Oh, there will be nuns! Nuns in drums, nuns that murmur like rain, nuns that are down with whatever the G-Man is selling. Nuns. 

Soundpaint sounds terrific, plays incredibly, and morphs like a dream!

While I was waiting, I made this out of my own nuns for Hallowe'en; it's played with a Falcon patch I made from Public Doman samples:


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## b_elliott (Nov 4, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> morphing bras and rock and high bands mixing strings and rung glass, and a little cross over in the middle.
> 
> 
> Bee_Abney said:
> ...


Bras or brass? Can we get a nuns to bras morph? This takes physical modeling to another level! 
Sorry, I will now behave for the remainder of the day.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 4, 2021)

b_elliott said:


> Bras or brass? Can we get a nuns to bras morph? This takes physical modeling to another level!
> Sorry, I will now behave for the remainder of the day.


I wouldn't dare to ask about a nun's undergarments. It shall have to be brass instead this time!


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## Trevor Meier (Nov 5, 2021)

I love the colour that Soundpaint adds to my palette. To me it's just so damn *playable*... and I think that's what they're going for. It's a short reach to completely re-design a sound, but that's not really necessary if you prefer to browse presets.

I do wish for a more refined preset browser, and perhaps some macro knobs to go with the (very deep) modulation matrix.

For now it just sounds great... seriously, my mouth was agape when I played the 1975 Guitar. It's just unreal. I sat there playing for a good 30 minutes... *it just feels so real to play*. I guess it's like what @ControlCentral said above: the fidelity of the sound makes me instantly start making music and forget that I'm supposed to be playing with a new toy 

I don't know what the magic sauce is but I like it... I'm very interested to see what this engine can do with strings and other sounds that have a significant amount of timbre variation over time.

Congrats @Troels Folmann !! Must feel great to see so many people enjoying the result of so many years of work. Pouring one out for you and the team tonight!


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 5, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> I love the colour that Soundpaint adds to my palette. To me it's just so damn *playable*... and I think that's what they're going for. It's a short reach to completely re-design a sound, but that's not really necessary if you prefer to browse presets.
> 
> I do wish for a more refined preset browser, and perhaps some macro knobs to go with the (very deep) modulation matrix.
> 
> ...


Great suggestions. The preset browser is manageable at the moment; but it could get really, badly cluttered and difficult to navigate. The Search feature really helps, but it could also (eventually) benefit from an Omnisphere-like indexing system. I believe that they had this in mind with the liking feature.

Most of all, I'm keenly awaiting strings, woodwind, and more realistic brass. It may be that the instruments that would benefit most from legato have been held back a bit until they can be shown at the best once the legato is ready. I suspect there is also an element of 'New product, new name - let's get some new customers as well' leading to a focus on things that have appeal both to composers and other kinds of music makers (who are also composers, but don't use the term).

I did like how the various videos start from the most introductory level before rapidly accelerating into more details. This is great for marketing to those with less experience in music.


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## rrichard63 (Nov 5, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> ... strings, woodwind, and more realistic brass. It may be that the instruments that would benefit most from legato have been held back a bit until they can be shown at the best once the legato is ready.


An interesting point. I hope that's part of the reason. Troels also said somewhere that they wanted to start with sounds that would more sharply differentiate SoundPaint from previous platforms.


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## tabulius (Nov 5, 2021)

I'm already using the Palindrome sounds for a custom trailer gig. What I like about Soundpaint, is it is FAST. Everything loads quickly, I can add LFOs and effects super fast. The interface is clean and minimalistic, but this helps to find stuff quickly. Effects sound good and are high quality. Samples are inspiring. No complaints here at the moment.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 5, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> An interesting point. I hope that's part of the reason. Troels also said somewhere that they wanted to start with sounds that would more sharply differentiate SoundPaint from previous platforms.


Yes. And, I think, to start with sounds that would appeal to beatmaker/producer amateurs every bit as much as any other lover of strange sonic possibilities. Which sounds fair enough to me.


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## tabulius (Nov 5, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> The Search feature really helps, but it could also (eventually) benefit from an Omnisphere-like indexing system. I believe that they had this in mind with the liking feature.


+1 for the indexing system. Now it is fine, but if there are 100+ libraries more - then we are in trouble


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## Geoff Moore (Nov 5, 2021)

Troels confirmed that deeper preset tagging is coming following a request on the Discord ("I agree with deeper tagging. Coming."). Also he and Marissa from QA/support got in touch via Discord to discuss the FX lock feature I requested in the other thread, Troels likes the idea and is looking at either adding the lock or the ability to save FX chains! I've suggested implementing both to allow for all workflows. 

Here's the request btw:





Rule Number One: There Are No Rules! Rule Number Two: There Is One Ruler!


The more I read these last messages the more I guess the average age of us are around 40 years old. Am I wrong ? 🤣 Average? At least! :dancedance:



vi-control.net


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 5, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> Troels confirmed that deeper preset tagging is coming on the Discord. Also he and Marissa from QA/support got in touch via Discord to discuss the FX lock feature I requested in the other thread, Troels likes the idea and is looking at either adding the lock or the ability to save FX chains! I've suggested implementing both to allow for all workflows.
> 
> Here's the request btw:
> 
> ...


Thank you for making the world a better place; but getting Troels to make the world a better place!


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## Michel Simons (Nov 5, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Yes. And, I think, to start with sounds that would appeal to beatmaker/producer amateurs every bit as much as any other lover of strange sonic possibilities. Which sounds fair enough to me.


Indeed. Because believe it or not, there is a whole world beyond epic cinematic orchestral trailer mock-ups.


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## sostenuto (Nov 5, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Thank you for making the world a better place; but getting Troels to make the world a better place!


.......... thought he was sending autographed hat to Simeon A ?? Promise unkept ?


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 5, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> .......... thought he was sending autographed hat to Simeon A ?? Promise unkept ?


Is that right? Letting Simeon down is the lowest of the low!


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## Fizzlewig (Nov 5, 2021)

Here is my *2nd Soundpaint Juniper 8 custom patch*. It's called *'Strings in Motion'*. It's very soft, so you may have to turn up your speakers! Improvised live, so I apologise for the playing!!




__





Strings in Motion.aiff


Shared with Droplr




d.pr


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 5, 2021)

Fizzlewig said:


> Here is my *2nd Soundpaint Juniper 8 custom patch*. It's called *'Strings in Motion'*. It's very soft, so you may have to turn up your speakers! Improvised live, so I apologise for the playing!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who needs real strings with these sounds! Gorgeous work once again. You can hear the dynamic variations, and I bet you didn't need to use the mod wheel to get them.

I have actually spent part of my evening turning real strings into synth-like sounds, so I feel we've been coming at the same kinds of sounds from different directions! Your work paid off better!


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## Fizzlewig (Nov 5, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Who needs real strings with these sounds! Gorgeous work once again. You can hear the dynamic variations, and I bet you didn't need to use the mod wheel to get them.
> 
> I have actually spent part of my evening turning real strings into synth-like sounds, so I feel we've been coming at the same kinds of sounds from different directions! Your work paid off better!


They are very beautiful and have intrinsic acoustic quality to them, this patch is real complex though, it took me 2 days before I was happy with it!! Thank you for your lovely comment, much appreciated. The patch can go softer and have a longer attack / release than what was in the recording, all controlled with the mod wheel. Soundpaint is awesome!!!


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 5, 2021)

Fizzlewig said:


> They are very beautiful and have intrinsic acoustic quality to them, this patch is real complex though, it took me 2 days before I was happy with it!! Thank you for your lovely comment, much appreciated. The patch can go softer and have a longer attack / release than what was in the recording, all controlled with the mod wheel. Soundpaint is awesome!!!


Soundpaint really is very special. And it's just getting started, too. It's very exciting to see a rare true innovation from the start.


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## Auf dem Wolf (Nov 6, 2021)

Slowly digging into it and really enjoying what I'm discovering. 

First impressions: Some really beautifully tailored presets, and I love the level of detail in the sounds (UDS). Others have built VI's that imitate analog inconsistencies, but I feel SP is extremely rich sounding in comparison. Interface is tops (barring the feature-skinny browser), but I did watch the tutorial videos first. Everything is as easy as it looks. As (I think?) everyone else attests, load times are absurdly fast on an NVME. I first installed on a platter, and wow - what a difference. I have to say the piano is not my favorite, but it's also not bad. It is a solid base when blended/morphed with other sounds, which is what I would do with it anyhow. Overall, I share Troels's excitement for this thing. I can see how the quality & diversity of sound and the speed of use could make it a unique tool in the arsenal. I've bought C64, 808, Juniper, Palindrome and Beautiful Noises. Anyhow, more to dig. See how the second impressions go.


----------



## Simeon (Nov 6, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> .......... thought he was sending autographed hat to Simeon A ?? Promise unkept ?


Really? I love a good hat 🤓
Now if I could get one of those autographed Prophet XLs, now we’re really talking 😎


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## cefshah (Nov 7, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> I probably should refrain from commenting too much on this thread, since we got our commercial thread going. But I do not recall making such a statement. SP is all about pushing and pursuing realism. We only have one Sound Design release (Beautiful Noises) and all the other instruments are all attempts at creating a new sonic super-realism. The 808 is over 16.000 RTS (Real-Time Samples).
> 
> But here is where I would make the distinction. Soundpaint is 1 day old. Kontakt is 20 years old.
> 
> ...


Troels, great points made!!

I've purchased SP, and it was because of what my 'ears' were telling me about 'expression' AND the 'life' that your new technology is able to inject into its patches, that often sound less 'alive' in other formats.

Back to 'expression': For 'me', being able to translate my playing (feelings) into an electronic instrument, is most important to me overall (though I do LOVE realism, when I want it). Most times... I'm not looking for impressing people with 'real', as much as the 'expression' that I seek to communicate to others (emotionally). And I think that Soundpaint will eventually be well-known for that.


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## cefshah (Nov 7, 2021)

Inevitably... people *will* compare Soundpaint with other contenders (Spectrasonics, Native Instruments, UVI... etc.); and I surely love those products.

Yet what stands out for me, is that as great as other VSTi's do sound... *they don't sound good in the exact ways, that Soundpaint does*... despite those being 'stellar' overall.

The discussions I'll be most interested in eventually, will be those that dig into how people are using those other programs, in complementary ways. I didn't purchase SP (the libraries) to 'replace' anything, but to add to my 'arsenal' of sonic possibilities.


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## Nico5 (Nov 7, 2021)

cefshah said:


> Most times... I'm not looking for impressing people with 'real', as much as the 'expression' that I seek to communicate to others (emotionally). And I think that Soundpaint will eventually be well-known for that.


I think you’ve nailed what really matters. However I also think, that Troels may also be a bit of a co-author of confusion in some of the language he uses. To my ears he frequently seems to imply that something sounds like the real sampled instrument, while he may actually mean something more like:

we grab a cool existing instrument or computer or whatever
and then we sometimes run it through relevant and interesting audio processing gear
and we sample that in a ton of relevant detail into our own novel sample format, which isn’t only copy protecting the samples, but also makes them more efficient to use than commonly used multi-sample approaches
and then we use our new 4 way SoundPaint platform with its high performance sample processing, morphing and fx chain capabilities to create a lot of great sounding presets
and our customers can tweak our presets or make their own from our sophisticated samplings

And the resulting instrument feels like a real smooth high end analog instrument without crappy digital artifacts or startling discontinuities


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## cefshah (Nov 7, 2021)

Captain Oveur said:


> [... For some definition of "real instrument" i.e. something played with a keyboard.]


I can respect that.

I've been playing piano/keyboards since I was 8 years old (about 55 years ago). Around 1983, I purchased my first electronic keyboard, and not long after... my first 4 track tape recorder (high tech... then). When the Yamaha DX-7 came out, I purchased one... because of the range of 'expression'. With rare exceptions, the sonic signatures did NOT sound realistic. But what was totally real about that thing, was the range of expression possible. I could make it 'say' things (emotionally speaking)... that other keyboards could not, at the time. _(I cannot believe the HOURS I spent, learning to program that DX-7. Arrggh!! LOL!!) _Even so, the DX-7 was a quantum leap in another direction... despite not being a 'replacement' for other keyboards.

Soundpaint is very expressive, and the ease of customizing that expressiveness... stands out to me. There is nothing else like this. And the reality that it all but eliminates that machine-gun effect on repeated notes (so well)... is a massive leap forward. The controlled-chaos (life) programmed into SP patches, is a wonderful thing!!

I could have put more of this into technical terms... but after nearly 40 years of creating electronic music, I've come around to expressing myself in more artistic terms, because that is the way I see the instruments I use.


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## cefshah (Nov 7, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> I think you’ve nailed what really matters. However I also think, that Troels may also be a bit of a co-author of confusion in some of the language he uses. To my ears he frequently seems to imply that something sounds like the real sampled instrument, while he may actually mean something more like:
> 
> we grab a cool existing instrument or computer or whatever
> and then we sometimes run it through relevant and interesting audio processing gear
> ...


I see your points.

And I (for one) wasn't confused at all. I was listening very closely to the sound and expression capabilities of the instrument. So, before or even as Troels was describing (in artistic terms, as he often has done)... I knew exactly what he was talking about. And I'm certain that the excitement he expresses in the videos, is that 'artist' thing that many of us feel (especially since he's hearing this thing close up on a very likely amazing system and room).

It may be time for Troels to call in some virtuoso players (like Spectrasonics always does), to demonstrate 'more' things. And not that the music I've heard so far isn't great stuff... but that more examples, will make it really clear what I believe SP can do.


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## cefshah (Nov 7, 2021)

BTW... I LOVE real 'piano', but these new electronic emulations of the same, will keep me from ever returning (solely) to the wooden box with strings in it. LOL!!


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## cefshah (Nov 7, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> What Troels hears as super-realism I hear as processed. I'm basing that on the demo videos, since the piano is the only instrument I have downloaded. The four Parts of the piano are, by themselves, very natural sounding while many of the Programs are sounds that I would categorize as processed. To understand the term "super-realism" I think you have to emphasize the "super" part.
> 
> 
> I forgot about the 808; that's another exception.


I think a lot of times... people miss specifying, that the realism they speak of... is _*as*_ *related to recordings of the real instruments* _(synths or otherwise)_.

Honestly, I grew up around real instruments in band. Great sound!! But when I heard things properly captured in studio recordings and played back on an excellent sound system... my *preference* for studio 'sound' became insatiable. I've seen *Gary Wright, Steely Dan, Chicago* and others live, and for *concerts *those were awesome!! BUT... when I got home and played the same songs on my system, I always remembered enjoying them more.

So, I've learned to frame 'realism'... in a manner that relates to *recordings of real instruments* (including orchestral sounds). And I feel rather fortunate, that I like the *recorded *sound so much. 

P.S. That Gary Wright (Dream Weaver Tour) concert in the mid-70's... sounded so much like the recordings, and likely the best fidelity I've heard at a venue since. (It was so loud, but not too loud AND crystal clear!!)


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## cefshah (Nov 7, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> I think they clear up any confusion here








WHOAH!!! That CLAP figure is absolutely impressive!!! I breezed right past that, because I was listening to the demo, and quickly went to purchase it. LOL!!


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## Casiquire (Nov 7, 2021)

cefshah said:


> WHOAH!!! That CLAP figure is absolutely impressive!!! I breezed right past that, because I was listening to the demo, and quickly went to purchase it. LOL!!


How did i miss that gold mine of humor 😯


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## rrichard63 (Nov 7, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> I think you’ve nailed what really matters. However I also think, that Troels may also be a bit of a co-author of confusion in some of the language he uses. To my ears he frequently seems to imply that something sounds like the real sampled instrument, while he may actually mean something more like:
> 
> we grab a cool existing instrument or computer or whatever
> and then we sometimes run it through relevant and interesting audio processing gear
> ...


Yes! See also:



rrichard63 said:


> I suspect that Troels is using the words "realism" and "realistic" in a rather idiosyncratic way, and that he doesn't mean what most of us mean when say that violin library XYZ sounds very realistic. I don't think I know exactly what he does mean. Maybe something like "finally, this is the [hybrid] sound I am hearing in my head and have been trying to learn how to produce in software". Or maybe something like "this sound makes the emotional content of the music feel real and alive to me".


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## cefshah (Nov 7, 2021)

Trevor Meier said:


> I love the colour that Soundpaint adds to my palette. To me it's just so damn *playable*... and I think that's what they're going for. It's a short reach to completely re-design a sound, but that's not really necessary if you prefer to browse presets.
> 
> I do wish for a more refined preset browser, and perhaps some macro knobs to go with the (very deep) modulation matrix.
> 
> ...


Yeah!! This program is generally stellar. They can/will refine it... I have no doubt. And as you point out, playability is one of the best things about it.


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## FlyingAndi (Nov 8, 2021)

Auf dem Wolf said:


> Others have built VI's that imitate analog inconsistencies, but I feel SP is extremely rich sounding in comparison.


Good point.
Has anybody copared the C64 UDS to inSIDious yet?
These are quite different technologies. I would assume that Sounpaint gives you more options to move outside of the classic SID territory, whereas inSIDious lets you do everything you could inside a SID.

But soundwise (in classic SID territory) how do they compare? Which one has more mojo?


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## Jotto (Nov 8, 2021)

I have tried to download 1928 piano five times now. I get back to Soundpaint when it works.


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## axb312 (Nov 11, 2021)

Sounds very meh to me...


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## sostenuto (Nov 23, 2021)

Quiet as BlkFri Afflatus here ! $$ goin' somewhere ........ 💰


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## Jeremy Morgan (Nov 23, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Quiet as BlkFri Afflatus here ! $$ goin' somewhere ........ 💰


Two releases are coming this week


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## Flyo (Nov 24, 2021)

SoundPaint is awesome but I would like to see the instruments with an image/cover something rather than a full list of presets. This reminds me SampleTank that always I still keep skipping for that workflow in interminable large list search criteria letters 😅. Something more graphical with each instrument would come very useful as a matter of inspirational instrument really.


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## Troels Folmann (Nov 24, 2021)

Flyo said:


> SoundPaint is awesome but I would like to see the instruments with an image/cover something rather than a full list of presets. This reminds me SampleTank that always I still keep skipping for that workflow in interminable large list search criteria letters 😅. Something more graphical with each instrument would come very useful as a matter of inspirational instrument really.


Soundpaint is based on one mantra: Shorten distance from thought to creation.

I view Soundpaint on a long timescale. What happens when a user is 50-100 Ultra and Deep-sampled instruments in? How to access them in the quickest way? I currently have over 150 instruments running in it at the moment. The fastest way to access them is to write 3-4 letters in "search" and be done with it. If I had to browse, scroll and click-through banners that take seconds more. Seconds become hours become days.

Soundpaint is all about optimization. Scrolling and clicking through graphics take longer and for that reason, it doesn't work with our rigid logic. But I totally get what you are saying too - it can be cool and inspiring to have beautiful and representational graphics.

The funny story is that the first version of Soundpaint was full of graphics - cause I was in love with the idea of a warm and musician-friendly UI. However the more we prototyped (and we did for years). The more we realized that these things got in the way of the mantra. 

Piano keys right in front of you. No distractions.


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## Flyo (Nov 24, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> Soundpaint is based on one mantra: Shorten distance from thought to creation.
> 
> I view Soundpaint on a long timescale. What happens when a user is 50-100 Ultra and Deep-sampled instruments in? How to access them in the quickest way? I currently have over 150 instruments running in it at the moment. The fastest way to access them is to write 3-4 letters in "search" and be done with it. If I had to browse, scroll and click-through banners that take seconds more. Seconds become hours become days.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply Troels. Also for this releases and also free gif. I enjoying a lot SoundPaint, understand the concept of simplicity really but I always see letters… having a real screen is faster to read but if I scale down to a laptop it’s getting more ilegible right away. Some presets appears (logically) large, that even on a more big screen some information about each preset name keeps hidden. There is more than a full list of names and letters. Maybe an image of each bank somewhere could be handy at least. The workflow don’t need to be interrupted with more click and search but rapidly it would become that, a huge large list of names and names. Sometimes remind me like a keyboard workstation… but with that in mind I really enjoy buttons like a full set of arts on a well suited orchestral library for example. There a few more ways to have all the info about the patch itself in a manner that don’t interrupt any workflow and also gives u an idea of what are you playing (random user thought’s)


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## Troels Folmann (Nov 24, 2021)

Flyo said:


> Thank you for your reply Troels. Also for this releases and also free gif. I enjoying a lot SoundPaint, understand the concept of simplicity really but I always see letters… having a real screen is faster to read but if I scale down to a laptop it’s getting more ilegible right away. Some presets appears (logically) large, that even on a more big screen some information about each preset name keeps hidden. There is more than a full list of names and letters. Maybe an image of each bank somewhere could be handy at least. The workflow don’t need to be interrupted with more click and search but rapidly it would become that, a huge large list of names and names. Sometimes remind me like a keyboard workstation… but with that in mind I really enjoy buttons like a full set of arts on a well suited orchestral library for example. There a few more ways to have all the info about the patch itself in a manner that don’t interrupt any workflow and also gives u an idea of what are you playing (random user thought’s)


Love it. Feel free to post what that would look like. We already building something graphically together with our users on Discord, so could be fun to discuss that one over there too. Would love to see what that would look like.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Nov 24, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> Soundpaint is based on one mantra: Shorten distance from thought to creation.
> 
> I view Soundpaint on a long timescale. What happens when a user is 50-100 Ultra and Deep-sampled instruments in? How to access them in the quickest way? I currently have over 150 instruments running in it at the moment. The fastest way to access them is to write 3-4 letters in "search" and be done with it. If I had to browse, scroll and click-through banners that take seconds more. Seconds become hours become days.
> 
> ...


That cupid program better still be there haha


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## Kobiy86 (Nov 30, 2021)

Not sure if this has already been answered, but I was wondering what exactly the difference between standard and UDS is (see palindrome for example). Is it like an extra set of round robins for synth? If I can save 25$ by going standard, I don’t care about something that’s hardly audible at all in a mix.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 30, 2021)

Kobiy86 said:


> Not sure if this has already been answered, but I was wondering what exactly the difference between standard and UDS is (see palindrome for example). Is it like an extra set of round robins for synth? If I can save 25$ by going standard, I don’t care about something that’s hardly audible at all in a mix.


Your assessment is spot on.


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## YahmezTV (Nov 30, 2021)

Kobiy86 said:


> Not sure if this has already been answered, but I was wondering what exactly the difference between standard and UDS is (see palindrome for example). Is it like an extra set of round robins for synth? If I can save 25$ by going standard, I don’t care about something that’s hardly audible at all in a mix.


_*Gasps* 
*Faints*_

Blasphemy. I will pray to the Sample Gods, may they have mercy on your soul.


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## rrichard63 (Nov 30, 2021)

Kobiy86 said:


> Not sure if this has already been answered, but I was wondering what exactly the difference between standard and UDS is (see palindrome for example). Is it like an extra set of round robins for synth? If I can save 25$ by going standard, I don’t care about something that’s hardly audible at all in a mix.


According to the description of one of the instruments:

"The Soundpaint Juniper 8 comes in two editions. A Standard edition and a UDS (Ultra Deep-Sampled) edition. The two editions are identical. You get the same Programs and Parts. The only difference is the UDS version has natural variation pr. note, which makes it sound more organic with repeated chords, arpeggiators etc."

Exactly how (or indeed whether) a "natural variation per note" is different from (or the same thing as) a round robin is, apparently, proprietary information.


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## Kobiy86 (Nov 30, 2021)

Okay, thanks! Since I’m looking specifically for arps and sequences, I’m going UDS.


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## Troels Folmann (Nov 30, 2021)

Kobiy86 said:


> Okay, thanks! Since I’m looking specifically for arps and sequences, I’m going UDS.


Yeah. If you are serious about synths and really want the true experience of sitting in front an old vintage - then go UDS. I personally can't live without them - esp. on arps/plucks and repeated keys/brass kinda stuff.


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## mussnig (Nov 30, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> Yeah. If you are serious about synths and really want the true experience of sitting in front an old vintage - then go UDS. I personally can't live without them - esp. on arps/plucks and repeated keys/brass kinda stuff.


Yesterday evening I was playing around again with Soundpaint. I've never been that much interested in synths until Soundpaint and I can now absolutely understand all the people who are so fascinated by them.

After that I went to bed thinking: damn, for the sake of my wallet I hope that I'm not starting to get into hardware synths 😆


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 1, 2021)

mussnig said:


> Yesterday evening I was playing around again with Soundpaint. I've never been that much interested in synths until Soundpaint and I can now absolutely understand all the people who are so fascinated by them.
> 
> After that I went to bed thinking: damn, for the sake of my wallet I hope that I'm not starting to get into hardware synths 😆


UDS is the gateway drug!


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## Troels Folmann (Dec 1, 2021)

The intention is actually the opposite. I am trying to capture these units in the highest fidelity possible, so I never have to go back and turn them on again. Vintage analogs are delicate little creatures with a limited lifespan and need yearly (sometimes monthly) attention to stay pristine. 

I have dedicated the last 5 years to vintage analogs and gradually realized just how magical these machines are. The journey began working with Dave on the Prophet X/XL synths and learning so much about the analog world in the process. 

Today I am just in love with the real vintage analogs. I think they are irreplaceable and like little electronic Stradivariuses in their respective ways. I think they are often more musical than their modern counterparts. They sit fantastically well in the mixes (for the same reason I love music from 70s and 80s). 

Each of them sounds different since the chips and circuits are maturing (sometimes weathering) differently in each unit. You will notice that in the Nuno 60 UDS. I Ultra Deep-Sampled two different Juno 60s to prove the point to myself just how unique these machines become.


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## Fox (Dec 3, 2021)

Is their a simple way to import and export presets?


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 3, 2021)

Fox said:


> Is their a simple way to import and export presets?


Not yet, sorry.


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## Fox (Dec 3, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Not yet, sorry.


Good to know, though. Thanks!


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## YaniDee (Dec 6, 2021)

I've been having problems with Soundpaint..after 10 or so minutes, there is an audio clicking noise, and the sound disappears..This happens in both the standalone, and as a vst3 in FL studio (I will also try it in Cubase 11). I have the latest version of the engine (1.03) running on Win 10 and have never had this problem with any of my hundreds of other plugins. Has anyone else experienced this?


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## Cheezus (Dec 6, 2021)

YaniDee said:


> I've been having problems with Soundpaint..after 10 or so minutes, there is an audio clicking noise, and the sound disappears..This happens in both the standalone, and as a vst3 in FL studio (I will also try it in Cubase 11). I have the latest version of the engine (1.03) running on Win 10 and have never had this problem with any of my hundreds of other plugins. Has anyone else experienced this?


Are you using any specific library when this happens?


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## YaniDee (Dec 6, 2021)

Cheezus said:


> Are you using any specific library when this happens?


Actually, it's the 1975 Jazz guitar that I bought yesterday..I will try it with the piano library..


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 6, 2021)

YaniDee said:


> Actually, it's the 1975 Jazz guitar that I bought yesterday..I will try it with the piano library..


If it turns out to be just that library, it may be that something went wrong at the downloading stage - possibly at their end. Installation appears to be their major weak point, with different results for different users.


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## YaniDee (Dec 6, 2021)

You guys may be right..so far, no probs with the piano library..


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## Jeremy Morgan (Dec 6, 2021)

Tomorrow's Nicholas Bras release sounds something special. With what Troels did with it...oh boy...I'm rubbing my dirty little paws for it tomorrow.


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## Troels Folmann (Dec 6, 2021)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> Tomorrow's Nicholas Bras release sounds something special. With what Troels did with it...oh boy...I'm rubbing my dirty little paws for it tomorrow.


Tomorrow is now. $20. 









Bras Kora Drum


The Kora Drum is a mixed inspiration from a Kora and a Kamele N'goni, two harp-lutes from West Africa. The Kora is made using 12 strings and a tom drum to replace the calabash. This produces a very warm harp-lute Kora guitar drum vst, inspired by African instruments.




soundpaint.com


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 6, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> Tomorrow is now. $20.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As a big fan of West African music and sound design, I'd like to say a big thank you for this instrument!


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## grabauf (Dec 6, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> Tomorrow is now. $20.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Such a gorgeous and playable instrument! I could jam around with the Drum Kora Piano for hours.
Really inspirational patch. And the Drum Kora Harp reminds me of Vollenweider.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 6, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> Tomorrow is now. $20.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is a very nice surprise Troels. It will complement my Karoryfer instruments nicely. Add “Vollenweider” and I bet we have another winner.


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## c0nsilience (Dec 22, 2021)

“You can’t make everyone happy all the time and last night they were all at my show.” - Mitch Hedberg

The best software and musical instruments get out of the way enabling creative self-expression. Their goal serving as a means to an end for your goal, which is to create and inspire. If they don’t unlock what’s inside of you, then what’s the point?

Soundpaint executes this masterfully. At least it does for me. 🙃


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## Troels Folmann (Dec 22, 2021)

c0nsilience said:


> “You can’t make everyone happy all the time and last night they were all at my show.” - Mitch Hedberg
> 
> The best software and musical instruments get out of the way enabling creative self-expression. Their goal serving as a means to an end for your goal, which is to create and inspire. If they don’t unlock what’s inside of you, then what’s the point?
> 
> Soundpaint executes this masterfully. At least it does for me. 🙃


God. You should run our marketing! 

I wholeheartedly agree with your choice of words - and it is the exact sentiment behind Soundpaint.

For the same reason, we spent years optimizing the logic behind every decision. Improved load-times. Created a flat, scalable, and fast super-minimalistic UI. And why we created an entirely new audio format, so the instruments would feel and breathe more like their acoustic counterparts. 

I still look at envy at my grand piano. No boot time or dependence on power. No UI getting in the way or a cascade of useless options to distract me. But instead, just something completely immediate, which plays more fulfilling than most digital instruments. 

Thank you. Your comment really made my day!


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## c0nsilience (Dec 23, 2021)

Troels Folmann said:


> God. You should run our marketing!
> 
> I wholeheartedly agree with your choice of words - and it is the exact sentiment behind Soundpaint.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Troels!

My experience with 'real' instruments is that tone is in the fingers fueled by the heart. Soundpaint is the closest approximation of this that I've been able to find displayed on a computer screen. There is subtlety and harmonic joy to be found in the morphing feature alone. It's a visceral experience and it's at the source. 

*Note:* It's worth noting that I was an early adopter of both a Roli Seaboard and a Linnstrument (both of which came and went) and I have had a Nonlinear Labs C15 for over two years now. So, it isn't like I haven't been searching for the _perfect _digital creative tool for self-expression.


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## MegaPixel (Jan 7, 2022)

Anyone know where custom presets are stored with soundpaint?
I can't find them in the library location or mydocuments or c:\users\username\appdata folders..

They also don't show up in the stand alone version...

It's an interesting bit of software, has come a long way but it's got a long way to go, hopefully by v1.10.x or whatever it will be able to

- handle 100,000+ presets (searchable and right click open in explorer)
- Every knob, dial, slider, button is detectable by the DAW for automation

And they most certainly need to open up the developer program for it, you need a portfolio and have to apply for it... Reminds me of the apple developer fee... And I wont pay for that... Will stick with development for falcon, kontakt and JUICE if thats the way it's going to be... But I think it's a year or 2 off from being mature enough to start building stuff for it, us developers could end up constantly fixing things in early adoption...


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## rrichard63 (Jan 7, 2022)

MegaPixel said:


> ... you need a portfolio and have to apply for it... Reminds me of the apple developer fee ...


I think this is an important issue that I haven't seen mentioned previously.


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## Consona (Jan 7, 2022)

How's the real-time round robins and velocity layers making demanding on CPU?


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## c0nsilience (Jan 7, 2022)

Consona said:


> How's the real-time round robins and velocity layers making demanding on CPU?


I haven’t noticed it being demanding on the CPU at all. Tested on a multi-core Mac Pro and an M1 Mac Mini.


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## c0nsilience (Jan 7, 2022)

The recently released Nicolas Bras Sitar is going to invite an interesting weekend! 🙃


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## Consona (Jan 9, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> I haven’t noticed it being demanding on the CPU at all. Tested on a multi-core Mac Pro and an M1 Mac Mini.


Hm, I've tried the free piano and even without any effects, it eats way more cpu up than any kontakt piano I have. The effects in SP are even way more demanding.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 9, 2022)

Consona said:


> Hm, I've tried the free piano and even without any effects, it eats way more cpu up than any kontakt piano I have. The effects in SP are even way more demanding.


I haven't experienced any CPU issues either. Have you, or are you going by the CPU meter (or whatever it is called) in your DAW?


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## jonnybutter (Jan 9, 2022)

Consona said:


> Hm, I've tried the free piano and even without any effects, it eats way more cpu up than any kontakt piano I have. The effects in SP are even way more demanding.


I’m on a Mac Pro trashcan - hardly a powerhouse - and no cpu problems for me either.


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## c0nsilience (Jan 9, 2022)

Consona said:


> Hm, I've tried the free piano and even without any effects, it eats way more cpu up than any kontakt piano I have. The effects in SP are even way more demanding.


My experience has been the opposite, with nothing I’ve used in Soundpaint ever going beyond 7% on my late 2013 Mac Pro or 2020 M1 Mac Mini. Ymmv.


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## Consona (Jan 10, 2022)

I'm on Win10/Cubase11 and the piano alone, when playing with both hands, is around 7-14%. ASIO is like 4-5 times higher than Kontakt.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 10, 2022)

Consona said:


> I'm on Win10/Cubase11 and the piano alone, when playing with both hands, is around 7-14%. ASIO is like 4-5 times higher than Kontakt.


It's metering at around 3% higher than Kontakt (Alicia's Keys) for me too. Windows 11, Studio One 5.

But as it doesn't lead to any trouble, and has features Kontakt does not, that isn't anything I'd worry about. It is much better CPU wise than my soft synths.

But if only want it for single acoustic instruments, I think there are better options currently, despite the velocity layers.


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## c0nsilience (Jan 10, 2022)

Consona said:


> I'm on Win10/Cubase11 and the piano alone, when playing with both hands, is around 7-14%. ASIO is like 4-5 times higher than Kontakt.


I can’t speak to Cubase, but Win10 isn’t nearly as optimized as macOS + Logic for music/soft synths, imho. A few of my friends had fairly terrible CPU spikes with Serum/Pigments/u-he synths on their Win10 systems. 

From my own experience with soft synths, I haven’t really come across anything yet that I’ve had to bounce MIDI to audio for. This includes many multi-track sessions with a dozen instances of Massive X and anywhere from 2-4 effects per channel strip. 

Any system will eventually bog down, but Soundpaint doesn’t come anywhere near the CPU usage some of my other samplers/instruments commanded. This includes Bioscape and Lunaris in Kontakt.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 10, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> I can’t speak to Cubase, but Win10 isn’t nearly as optimized as macOS + Logic for music/soft synths, imho. A few of my friends had fairly terrible CPU spikes with Serum/Pigments/u-he synths on their Win10 systems.
> 
> From my own experience with soft synths, I haven’t really come across anything yet that I’ve had to bounce MIDI to audio for. This includes many multi-track sessions with a dozen instances of Massive X and anywhere from 2-4 effects per channel strip.
> 
> Any system will eventually bog down, but Soundpaint doesn’t come anywhere near the CPU usage some of my other samplers/instruments commanded. This includes Bioscape and Lunaris in Kontakt.



Ansolutely. For me, Soundpaint is one of my less CPU heavy instruments. That has become part of its appeal. But, ultimately, it is the combination of playability and sound quality that makes it so wonderful to use.


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## Consona (Jan 10, 2022)

Yea, it's probably a Win/Cubase thing. Thx for the replies!


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## Alex C (Jan 10, 2022)

I bought the 24-stringed zither (18 Euro) which is really nice. The piano is free so I can't complain about that.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 10, 2022)

Consona said:


> Yea, it's probably a Win/Cubase thing. Thx for the replies!


Well, sorry it doesn't help you any with the problem! If you are having serious issues affecting performance, it is definitely worth emailing support. You never know...


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## c0nsilience (Jan 10, 2022)

As development continues it’s my hope that it will get optimized to the point that anyone on nearly any machine can really enjoy it and inspire others with it. 🙂


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## angeruroth (Jan 11, 2022)

My first experiment mixing DX7 with strings.

VIs:
Soundpaint - Three custom DX7 programs
8dio - Anthology (Chamber Violins and Cellos Leg)
Spitfire - BDT (Violin Loud and Cello Soft) and Tundra (Strings Hi Puls Con Sord)

FXs:
Acon Digital Multiband Dynamics for the strings
QL Spaces and NI Supercharger for the mix


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## Consona (Jan 12, 2022)

I'll give it a try nonetheless. The worst case scenario is I will freeze those tracks. But I'm eager to try the infinite round robins technology.

Also I love the Valhalla DSP approach of stable low prices, no sales, etc.



angeruroth said:


> My first experiment mixing DX7 with strings.
> 
> VIs:
> Soundpaint - Three custom DX7 programs
> ...



SP synths sound so great! I'm totally buying some, don't know which one yet. But they are the best software synths I've ever heard.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 12, 2022)

Consona said:


> I'll give it a try nonetheless. The worst case scenario is I will freeze those tracks. But I'm eager to try the infinite round robins technology.
> 
> Also I love the Valhalla DSP approach of stable low prices, no sales, etc.
> 
> ...


I hope it works out. I think they sound amazing too. The Ultra Deep Sampled versions (which I think are worth it) do take up a lot of storage space; but that doesn't impede functionality.

The no sales, fair to low prices is great. It looks to me like they are trying to reach out to a wider audience. I hope they succeed, so their sales can support their pricing.

If you post questions here about the synth options (or on their Discord) you might be able to get some advice if you aren't sure which to go with.


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## sostenuto (Jan 12, 2022)

Consona said:


> I'll give it a try nonetheless. The worst case scenario is I will freeze those tracks. But I'm eager to try the infinite round robins technology.
> 
> Also I love the Valhalla DSP approach of stable low prices, no sales, etc.
> 
> ...


Interested, but early release of several (synths), raises question of which to add first. Not buying from nostalgia, or knowledge of hardware versions. Hope to see trend of user accolades as guidance.
Also fan of Valhalla DSP model.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 12, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Interested, but early release of several, raises question of which to add first. Not buying from nostalgia, or knowledge of hardware versions. Hope to see trend of user accolades as guidance.
> Also fan of Valhalla DSP model.


Good thinking! Maybe someone should start a 'What's your favourite Soundpaint instrument and why?' thread.

You know, maybe someone who is making a decision and who has been around the forum a while?


----------



## sostenuto (Jan 12, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Good thinking! Maybe someone should start a 'What's your favourite Soundpaint instrument and why?' thread.
> 
> You know, maybe someone who is making a decision and who has been around the forum a while?


Hmmmm .......... few names come to mind. 🙈


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## Consona (Jan 12, 2022)

First I thought, eh, just another sample player like Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, etc., meh. And didn't pay any attention to SP.

Then I discovered the fact about velocity layers and round robins and was really surprised this is actually something different. Then I saw the prices, then heard the synths walk-throughs and now I'm completely sold.
The VST seems to be stable, not causing any crashes, so I'm just waiting whether it will run better on my system some day. 



Bee_Abney said:


> The Ultra Deep Sampled versions


I'm only buying UDS for sure. Joined the discord, thx for the advice!



sostenuto said:


> raises question of which to add first


So far my fave is probably Juno, but every time I play the walk-throughs of the others, I of course want to buy them as well. :D


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 12, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Hmmmm .......... few names come to mind. 🙈



Nope, no Sostenutos, sorry, names come to mind...


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 12, 2022)

Consona said:


> First I thought, eh, just another sample player like Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, etc., meh. And didn't pay any attention to SP.
> 
> Then I discovered the fact about velocity layers and round robins and was really surprised this is actually something different. Then I saw the prices, then heard the synths walk-throughs and now I'm completely sold.
> The VST seems to be stable, not causing any crashes, so I'm just waiting whether it will run better on my system some day.
> ...


I have the Juno and Palindrome (synth, but not samples of a specific single one). I have no complaints, but the others do sound great too.


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## sostenuto (Jan 12, 2022)

Juno 


Bee_Abney said:


> I have the Juno and Palindrome (synth, but not samples of a specific single one). I have no complaints, but the others do sound great too.


Video & audio examples, so far, lead me to NUNO 60 UDS. Just added FV: Barbary with cool Crossgrade offer. 👍🏻


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 12, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Juno
> 
> Video & audio examples, so far, lead me to NUNO 60 UDS. Just added FV: Barbary with cool Crossgrade offer. 👍🏻


Barbary is terrific!


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## krops (Jan 15, 2022)

So I’ve got 8Dio Barbary. I’ve yet to play around with Soundpaint, but what advantages does the new SP version have over the Kontakt one?


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 15, 2022)

krops said:


> So I’ve got 8Dio Barbary. I’ve yet to play around with Soundpaint, but what advantages does the new SP version have over the Kontakt one?


If nothing else about Soundpaint has appealed to you, you might not want a second version with new 'snapshots'.

Soundpaint offers a good range of quality effects, velocity layers, morphing, modulation, spreading samples across the keyboard (which I don't think the Kontakt version of Barbary has), and sequencing. So if you give Soundpaint a spin and like it, you might end up deciding you'd like Barbary in that engine. Or one of the other libraries with new samples might appeal more.


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## krops (Jan 15, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> If nothing else about Soundpaint has appealed to you, you might not want a second version with new 'snapshots'.
> 
> Soundpaint offers a good range of quality effects, velocity layers, morphing, modulation, spreading samples across the keyboard (which I don't think the Kontakt version of Barbary has), and sequencing. So if you give Soundpaint a spin and like it, you might end up deciding you'd like Barbary in that engine. Or one of the other libraries with new samples might appeal more.


Thanks. On the contrary, the idea of Soundpaint does appeal to me, I’m just not sure where or why to start. So I get an email with a crossgrade offer on Barbary, and I’m thinking it might be an interesting starting point if the SP version can do some kind of magical morphing or something that’s impossible in Kontakt. I guess the paint analogy just makes me expect a radically different way of manipulating the source material.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 15, 2022)

krops said:


> Thanks. On the contrary, the idea of Soundpaint does appeal to me, I’m just not sure where or why to start. So I get an email with a crossgrade offer on Barbary, and I’m thinking it might be an interesting starting point if the SP version can do some kind of magical morphing or something that’s impossible in Kontakt. I guess the paint analogy just makes me expect a radically different way of manipulating the source material.


It's not a radical sonic change - as for example with spectral or granular manipulation - except for the smooth and easy spectal morphing of two sounds.

The big advantages are the smooth velocity response (which I think is a huge improvement, but others have not found it so impressive) and the way the engine has been designed to facilitate sound shaping in the midst of playing and composing. It's very easy to use, after a little familiarisation.


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## keskat (Jan 16, 2022)

MegaPixel said:


> Anyone know where custom presets are stored with soundpaint?
> I can't find them in the library location or mydocuments or c:\users\username\appdata folders..
> 
> They also don't show up in the stand alone version...


Did you ever find your custom presets? What am I missing? I'm having the same problem; I'd love to transfer them over to my laptop.


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## MegaPixel (Jan 16, 2022)

keskat said:


> Did you ever find your custom presets? What am I missing? I'm having the same problem; I'd love to transfer them over to my laptop.


Nope, I gave up in the end...

If I ever do find them I will post.


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## keskat (Jan 16, 2022)

MegaPixel said:


> Nope, I gave up in the end...
> 
> If I ever do find them I will post.


Aww, what a bummer. Thanks for answering. I'll try to contact support tomorrow, so likewise, if I hear anything I'll post here too.


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## Consona (Jan 22, 2022)

Are there any drum kits in the Jupiter, DX or Juno synths?


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 23, 2022)

Consona said:


> Are there any drum kits in the Jupiter, DX or Juno synths?


In the Juno, Jupiter 8, there are two Parts (two samples) of percussion, and one Program (patch) of bongos. So, not much. You can make some percussion yourself, by taking any Parts (samples) and reducing the decay and sustain to nothing or close to nothing; but Jupiter 8 has not been principally sampled to facilitated percussion. I'd guess that the other synths are the same, since there are specific libraries for percussion. I have the Orange 808 which sounds very good and I have started using it even though electronic percussion is not normally something I'd turn to.


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## Consona (Jan 23, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> In the Juno, Jupiter 8, there are two Parts (two samples) of percussion, and one Program (patch) of bongos. So, not much. You can make some percussion yourself, by taking any Parts (samples) and reducing the decay and sustain to nothing or close to nothing; but Jupiter 8 has not been principally sampled to facilitated percussion. I'd guess that the other synths are the same, since there are specific libraries for percussion. I have the Orange 808 which sounds very good and I have started using it even though electronic percussion is not normally something I'd turn to.


Thx! I was just wondering whether I can get some '80s toms sounds out of these synths. Seems like I have to wait until they sample some more drum machines.

How do the toms in Orange 808 sound? I like the snare and claps, but I don't think it has those pure '80s toms sounds.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 23, 2022)

Unfortunately, I don't know much about 80s tones. But, in my very clueless opinion, it sounds more 90s to me. Late 80s maybe.

Unrelated to that, I did briefly sketch out a beat using non-percussive synth sounds with reduced sustain to see what it sounded like. Not too bad, but it might need some work.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Jan 23, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Unfortunately, I don't know much about 80s tones. But, in my very clueless opinion, it sounds more 90s to me. Late 80s maybe.
> 
> Unrelated to that, I did briefly sketch out a beat using non-percussive synth sounds with reduced sustain to see what it sounded like. Not too bad, but it might need some work.


808 was a child of the 80s and 90s to be honest. I think it was in 82 when that came about. Depending on the genre you couldn't get away from it at the time in those two decades.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 23, 2022)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> 808 was a child of the 80s and 90s to be honest. I think it was in 82 when that came about. Depending on the genre you couldn't get away from it at the time in those two decades.


Thanks. I thought I'd end up being off time wise. It is one of the many weaknesses in my musical historical knowledge!


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## Jeremy Morgan (Jan 23, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Thanks. I thought I'd end up being off time wise. It is one of the many weaknesses in my musical historical knowledge!


I probably only know because my headphones caused me 808 brain damage in that period.


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## Dirtgrain (Jan 23, 2022)

Does the B3 compare well to other B3 virtual instruments? The IkMultimedia one? Blue3?


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 23, 2022)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> I probably only know because my headphones caused me 808 brain damage in that period.


I don't think there's a cure for that ailment.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 23, 2022)

Consona said:


> Thx! I was just wondering whether I can get some '80s toms sounds out of these synths. Seems like I have to wait until they sample some more drum machines.
> 
> How do the toms in Orange 808 sound? I like the snare and claps, but I don't think it has those pure '80s toms sounds.


And now the same percussion with music. All the music is using Soundpaint, the voices are from 8dio's Requiem Pro (60% off until the end of today - I'm sure they would appreciate my mentioning that!).

If the beat sounds odd, it is because, for good or ill, I didn't fully quantise it, and because it is in 5/4.


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## Consona (Jan 23, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> And now the same percussion with music. All the music is using Soundpaint, the voices are from 8dio's Requiem Pro (60% off until the end of today - I'm sure they would appreciate my mentioning that!).
> 
> If the beat sounds odd, it is because, for good or ill, I didn't fully quantise it, and because it is in 5/4.



How do you call this style of yours?


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 23, 2022)

Consona said:


> How do you call this style of yours?


Bad luck.


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## Consona (Jan 23, 2022)

For those unsure, this is what I mean by the '80s tom sound.


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 23, 2022)

Consona said:


> For those unsure, this is what I mean by the '80s tom sound.



Which one's Tom?


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## Bee_Abney (Jan 23, 2022)

Dirtgrain said:


> Does the B3 compare well to other B3 virtual instruments? The IkMultimedia one? Blue3?


I see you still don't have an answer. I've been wondering the same thing myself.

I have IK Multimedia's B3 which is very good indeed, I think. PTo me, the audio demos for the Soundpaint B3 sound a lot better. But it may be because I'm not the one playing it!

I haven't yet had a chance to watch the video, though.


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## c0nsilience (Feb 6, 2022)

So far, I've really dug into the following with Soundpaint:

Cinematic Ambiences
Chiptunes - C64 UDS
Custom - Free Angels
Epic Ensemble - 10 Analog Synths
Guitar - 24 String Zither
Guitar - Kora Drum
Guitar - Terz Guitar
Piano - 1928 Vintage Grand Steinway
Synth - Palindrome 1
Synth - Voices of Johann
Voices - Barbary

It's really a tremendous engine! As an avid fan of both hardware and acoustic (analog) instruments, I'm blown away by how nuanced software in a box coupled with a MIDI controller can sound, and, most importantly, _feel_. I can get lost in a pad for an hour at a time, tweaking a modern analog filter or organically morphing between parts.

There is a lot of love that went into this product and even though I get jazzed about creative tools for self-expression, Soundpaint might be the ultimate tool that really gets the job done.


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## mywordsaidmat (Feb 7, 2022)

Cymbal Effects has been my absolute favourite so far; a lovely toolbox of vivid taps, dusty tonal stuff, and raspy rhythmic textures.


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## c0nsilience (Feb 7, 2022)

mywordsaidmat said:


> Cymbal Effects has been my absolute favourite so far; a lovely toolbox of vivid taps, dusty tonal stuff, and raspy rhythmic textures.


I was very curious about Cymbal Effects. Having read your description, I think it’s next on my list. 🙂


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## c0nsilience (Feb 7, 2022)

For all of you on this thread, how are you mapping to your controller? Also, do you prefer the plug-in in your DAW or are you using Soundpaint standalone more often than not?

I’ve got a Novation SL49MKIII as my main controller and occasionally a C15 is setup as well. While I prefer the keybed on the C15, I don’t leave it set up all the time due to the wife and I having felines. 

Most of my time is spent in Logic Pro X and a little bit in Studio One. That being said, I really love Soundpaint standalone. Especially, when I just feel like being creative and not tracking.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 7, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> For all of you on this thread, how are you mapping to your controller? Also, do you prefer the plug-in in your DAW or are you using Soundpaint standalone more often than not?
> 
> I’ve got a Novation SL49MKIII as my main controller and occasionally a C15 is setup as well. While I prefer the keybed on the C15, I don’t leave it set up all the time due to the wife and I having felines.
> 
> Most of my time is spent in Logic Pro X and a little bit in Studio One. That being said, I really love Soundpaint standalone. Especially, when I just feel like being creative and not tracking.



Control wise, I just midi learn as and when to either my mod wheel or any control on my Quneo.

I actually have been using Soundpaint standalone most of the time, as it is one of the instruments I reach for when I just want to play for fun. But I use it in Studio One for recording.


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## c0nsilience (Feb 7, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Control wise, I just midi learn as and when to either my mod wheel or any control on my Quneo.
> 
> I actually have been using Soundpaint standalone most of the time, as it is one of the instruments I reach for when I just want to play for fun. But I use it in Studio One for recording.


That sounds like a solid way to approach it. With the Novation, I have the ability to create MIDI maps in their Components software. I have yet to do this with Soundpaint only because it is very modular and the controls are heavily dependent on the context of the parts/programs.

MIDI learn works flawlessly though, in both standalone and DAW operation, which is outstanding.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Feb 7, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> That sounds like a solid way to approach it. With the Novation, I have the ability to create MIDI maps in their Components software. I have yet to do this with Soundpaint only because it is very modular and the controls are heavily dependent on the context of the parts/programs.
> 
> MIDI learn works flawlessly though, in both standalone and DAW operation, which is outstanding.



Absolutely. With easy midi-learn you don't need a mapping in advance. You can wing it, and just add things as you want them for specific patches.


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## Mistro (Feb 11, 2022)

Does anyone know if there's an ETA for the Guitalele instrument? The one with that Andreas Vollenwieder sound. I feel like Gollum looking for that ring "Me Wants it!!"


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## Consona (Feb 19, 2022)

Does Standard version for synths in comparison to UDS just mean it's not having natural round robins? Is Soundpaint also making fake round robins or do they have to be sampled?


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## c0nsilience (Feb 19, 2022)

Consona said:


> Does Standard version for synths in comparison to UDS just mean it's not having natural round robins? Is Soundpaint also making fake round robins or do they have to be sampled?


Per the website:

“You get the same Programs and Parts. The only difference is the UDS version has natural variation pr. note, which makes it sound more organic with repeated chords, arpeggiators etc.”


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## Consona (Feb 20, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> Per the website:
> 
> “You get the same Programs and Parts. The only difference is the UDS version has natural variation pr. note, which makes it sound more organic with repeated chords, arpeggiators etc.”


Yea, I read that, but I still don't know how SP works. Does the program itself make "infinite" velocity layers and round robins, or does it have to be sampled?


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

Consona said:


> Yea, I read that, but I still don't know how SP works. Does the program itself make "infinite" velocity layers and round robins, or does it have to be sampled?



From what we know, the key tool for Soundpaint in producing infinite velocity layers and round robins is morphing between samples. So there have to be at least some samples - at least two for morphing. I would think more samples will introduce more realism to the gradations.

Synthesizers are typically sampled with just a couple of notes per scale for each sound sampled. Old analogue hardware will have more variety of sounds than that. So UDS samples every key for every pitch plus enough variety to get round robins and velocity layers. Somehow.

That's as much as I've gleaned or surmised.


----------



## Consona (Feb 20, 2022)

I'd love to hear Standard vs UDS demos and how much of the difference I could spot.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

Consona said:


> I'd love to hear Standard vs UDS demos and how much of the difference I could spot.



Yeah, that would be helpful, wouldn't it?

Oh. I have the standard and UDS Juno.

I'll have to a) download the standard version and b) wake up enough to sit at my desk.

b) could take a while. Maybe by tonight...


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## tritonely (Feb 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Yeah, that would be helpful, wouldn't it?
> 
> Oh. I have the standard and UDS Juno.
> 
> ...


The Juno (NUNO 60 UDS)? I wish their was a smaller size standard version, but can't find it on the site. Or do you get the non-UDS version with the purchase of UDS?


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

tritonely said:


> The Juno (NUNO 60 UDS)? I wish their was a smaller size standard version, but can't find it on the site. Or do you get the non-UDS version with the purchase of UDS?



Sorry, no. I should have said Jupiter 8. That one has both versions.


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## tritonely (Feb 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Sorry, no. I should have said Jupiter 8. That one has both versions.


Ah also a tempting one! Interesting to see if you hear significant difference between both versions


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## Consona (Feb 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Yeah, that would be helpful, wouldn't it?
> 
> Oh. I have the standard and UDS Juno.
> 
> ...


That would be fantastic! Once you have the time and mood for this, please do it. 

The difference is like double the money and triple+ the hard drive space...


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

Consona said:


> That would be fantastic! Once you have the time and mood for this, please do it.
> 
> The difference is like double the money and triple+ the hard drive space...



The downloads are in progress, though the internet connection is sluggish. But I'll post something later today.


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## c0nsilience (Feb 20, 2022)

I’m thinking it will be more discernible to the musician playing it much more so than anyone hearing it. Especially in a mix. But, I might be 100% wrong as well.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

Here I compare Ultra Deep Sampled Synth parts with standard versions. Each sequence begins with recorded playing by hand. Then, after a single repeated tapped note, that same note is replayed with greater velocity variations followed by sped up versions of earlier played elements. Finally, there is a section with an arp. This repeats for each of the following in this order:
Jupiter 8 UDS Laser Lead Uni
Jupiter 8 Standard Laser Lead Uni
Palindrome UDS Leads Held
Palindrome Standard Leads Held

If you like the voice, it is that of Marie Ork, which you can download for free from Karoryfer Samples at: https://shop.karoryfer.com/pages/free-samples

You can also buy the t-shirt from the image there.


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## ThisFellowPlayingTheCello (Feb 20, 2022)

What happened to the price of the "Everything bundle"?
I forget the price, but from I remember it was like 300-400$ on launch. Now it's over double that.
Have they added that much already, or was it just an intro offer?


----------



## doctoremmet (Feb 20, 2022)

ThisFellowPlayingTheCello said:


> What happened to the price of the "Everything bundle"?
> I forget the price, but from I remember it was like 300-400$ on launch. Now it's over double that.
> Have they added that much already, or was it just an intro offer?


They added a ton of new sample libraries. So it has increased with every release. No rocket science. And no intro offer either.


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## ThisFellowPlayingTheCello (Feb 20, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> They added a ton of new sample libraries. So it has increased with every release. No rocket science.


Allright. Seems like a valied question to me. Was the "no rocket science" really necessary 
That was what I was wondering as you see.
Still that seems unusual to already have added that much this quickly after launch.
So was curious if I had missed out on an intro offer, that is also very common in this industry.
But thanks for clarifying.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

ThisFellowPlayingTheCello said:


> Allright. Seems like a valied question to me. Was the "no rocket science" really necessary
> That was what I was wondering as you see.
> Still that seems unusual to already have added that much this quickly after launch.
> So was curious if I had missed out on an intro offer, that is also very common in this industry.
> But thanks for clarifying.


I think that's just Doc's way of saying that it is a simple issue - nothing complex going on. The total bundle was never a way to save money (it be very, very slightly cheaper - I haven't done the arithmetic!), just to save time adding just one item to your basket to buy.

They actually had a lot of libraries ready to go at launch. I think they'd got to the point where it was possible to complete libraries before they'd got the user interface quite where they wanted it for launch. And having a steady stream of releases is probably a good way to build awareness of a new platform.

And the platform is has had a few updates since release already. But, more excitingly, user sample import and legato are set to be introduced by the middle of the year.


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## ThisFellowPlayingTheCello (Feb 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I think that's just Doc's way of saying that it is a simple issue - nothing complex going on. The total bundle was never a way to save money (it be very, very slightly cheaper - I haven't done the arithmetic!), just to save time adding just one item to your basket to buy.
> 
> They actually had a lot of libraries ready to go at launch. I think they'd got to the point where it was possible to complete libraries before they'd got the user interface quite where they wanted it for launch. And having a steady stream of releases is probably a good way to build awareness of a new platform.
> 
> And the platform is has had a few updates since release already. But, more excitingly, user sample import and legato are set to be introduced by the middle of the year.


Allright thanks! Makes a lot of sense


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## doctoremmet (Feb 20, 2022)

ThisFellowPlayingTheCello said:


> Allright. Seems like a valied question to me. Was the "no rocket science" really necessary
> That was what I was wondering as you see.
> Still that seems unusual to already have added that much this quickly after launch.
> So was curious if I had missed out on an intro offer, that is also very common in this industry.
> But thanks for clarifying.


Sorry if I came across offensive in any way. I meant to say it is as you already suggested. There has been some unneccesary backlash against the bundle by some people earlier -around launch- which maybe coloured my tone of voice there


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## doctoremmet (Feb 20, 2022)

Like Bee says, a really great platform. And yes, there HAS been a LOT of new content released over the course of just a few months. Just take a look at the YT channel and you’ll notice right away


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## ThisFellowPlayingTheCello (Feb 20, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Sorry if I came across offensive in any way. I meant to say it is as you already suggested. There has been some unneccesary backlash against the bundle by some people earlier -around launch- which maybe coloured my tone of voice there


No problem at all


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## c0nsilience (Feb 20, 2022)

You know how your favorite show has a recap for those late to the party?

This is the recap. 

Welcome to the show. 🙂


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## doctoremmet (Feb 20, 2022)

Recap: Soundpaint is a brilliant platform that is destined to become way more brillianter. And there is a couple of ridiculously affordable libraries everyone should consider: Palindrome, Beautiful Noises aka Bee’s Monastery, and basically all the guitars. Oh - and G-Brass. Top notch.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Recap: Soundpaint is a brilliant platform that is destined to become way more brillianter. And there is a couple of ridiculously affordable libraries everyone should consider: Palindrome, Beautiful Noises aka Bee’s Monastery, and basically all the guitars. Oh - and G-Brass. Top notch.



Beautiful Noises is my personal favourite, but it mostly needs other libraries to mix with. It reintroduced me to nuns. And I haven't been able to think straight since.


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## Consona (Feb 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Here I compare Ultra Deep Sampled Synth parts with standard versions. Each sequence begins with recorded playing by hand. Then, after a single repeated tapped note, that same note is replayed with greater velocity variations followed by sped up versions of earlier played elements. Finally, there is a section with an arp. This repeats for each of the following in this order:
> Jupiter 8 UDS Laser Lead Uni
> Jupiter 8 Standard Laser Lead Uni
> Palindrome UDS Leads Held
> ...



Oh no, I like the UDS versions better.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Feb 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Beautiful Noises is my personal favourite, but it mostly needs other libraries to mix with. It reintroduced me to nuns. And I haven't been able to think straight since.


Ditto on beautiful noises. I'm surprised it doesn't get more air time in here with what can be done with it. Its almost the next thing I think about after over utility on whether I want a new library.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> Ditto on beautiful noises. I'm surprised it doesn't get more air time in here with what can be done with it. Its almost the next thing I think about after over utility on whether I want a new library.



I like mixing it with acoustic instruments best, how about you?


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## c0nsilience (Feb 20, 2022)

Honestly, I have yet to come across any Soundpaint library that wasn’t ultimately useful and inspiring.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> Honestly, I have yet to come across any Soundpaint library that wasn’t ultimately useful and inspiring.



Same here. I can't buy them all, but everyone I have I keep going back to.

I do really wish the Spitfire S_A and Originals lines were in Soundpaint. The have some great sound design, but locked in a limited sample player.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Feb 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I like mixing it with acoustic instruments best, how about you?


That exactly! I honestly haven't bought into much of anything on the synth side beyond the ginormous synth ensemble because even that has a ton of utility on its own to have some standard 'unstandard' synth sounds. when i test fire any library though it's always against beautiful noises at least once.

Kudos to Mello library too and I haven't got it yet but that 8bit library is going to convert me eventually.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> That exactly! I honestly haven't bought into much of anything on the synth side beyond the ginormous synth ensemble because even that has a ton of utility on its own to have some standard 'unstandard' synth sounds. when i test fire any library though it's always against beautiful noises at least once.
> 
> Kudos to Mello library too and I haven't got it yet but that 8bit library is going to convert me eventually.



I'm looking forward to using Mello on something. I bought it recently. The 8-bit library sounds surprisingly good to me, considering I have no nostalgia for computer music.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Feb 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm looking forward to using Mello on something. I bought it recently. The 8-bit library sounds surprisingly good to me, considering I have no nostalgia for computer music.


The thing that's got me thinking about it is that I think it only sounds like an 8-bit library if you choose it to. There was some patches in the videos that could have been modern hybrid score material with the sound design in it vs pac man post rock


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> The thing that's got me thinking about it is that I think it only sounds like an 8-bit library if you choose it to. There was some patches in the videos that could have been modern hybrid score material with the sound design in it vs pac man post rock


Yes, I think you may be right.


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## doctoremmet (Feb 20, 2022)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> The thing that's got me thinking about it is that I think it only sounds like an 8-bit library if you choose it to. There was some patches in the videos that could have been modern hybrid score material with the sound design in it vs pac man post rock


Okay thanks. Now I want it!


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## Jeremy Morgan (Feb 20, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Okay thanks. Now I want it!


Good you can help me hold the line for a few months more now too. I probably only haven't got it because something else comes up in the week that puts it off. If a dry week or two happens that line is going to be a dotted one.


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## davidson (Feb 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Here I compare Ultra Deep Sampled Synth parts with standard versions. Each sequence begins with recorded playing by hand. Then, after a single repeated tapped note, that same note is replayed with greater velocity variations followed by sped up versions of earlier played elements. Finally, there is a section with an arp. This repeats for each of the following in this order:
> Jupiter 8 UDS Laser Lead Uni
> Jupiter 8 Standard Laser Lead Uni
> Palindrome UDS Leads Held
> ...



I'm more confused after hearing that than before


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## doctoremmet (Feb 20, 2022)

davidson said:


> I'm more confused after hearing that than before


Here’s a track New Order did entirely with Soundpaint


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

davidson said:


> I'm more confused after hearing that than before


I was too! They sound similar but different, and both good in their own ways. But, basically, if you want smooth edges and molten sounds, go with UDS; if you want machine guns, go with Standard.

If you are buying one of the synths that have both, and you buy UDS, you will get the Standard edition too. So if you have the storage space, you could have one big (Standard) and one enormous (UDS) library of multi-sampled synth patches.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Here’s a track New Order did entirely with Soundpaint



They couldn't afford UDS, could they?


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## doctoremmet (Feb 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> They couldn't afford UDS, could they?


They went for that 64 bit glossy style. Back when having more bits was actually still cooler


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 20, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> They went for that 64 bit glossy style. Back when having more bits was actually still cooler



How quaint!


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## Troels Folmann (Feb 20, 2022)

Vintage analogs have an unusually delicious degree of natural variation in their voices.

You never get the same note twice, so see in a similar way to round-robin for acoustic instruments. It just makes things more alive and bubbly. This becomes more apparent if you play repeated chords or blast repeated notes through the arp. I would personally never use anything but UDS, since it brings me a lot closer to the real deal.

Ill do a short video soon and demonstrate the difference.


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## davidson (Feb 21, 2022)

Troels Folmann said:


> Ill do a short video soon and demonstrate the difference.


Please do.


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## c0nsilience (Feb 21, 2022)

Oh, this is exciting!! 😀

Bazantar


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 21, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> Oh, this is exciting!! 😀
> 
> Bazantar



And Troels designed a Program morphing the Bazantar into the Belgian nuns! How sweet of him to think of me like that!


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## c0nsilience (Feb 24, 2022)

Wow! Another inspired release from the devilishly creative minds at Soundpaint:

Bras Nail Violin

I showed the demo clip to my kiddo, a violinist, and his jaw dropped:

Bras Nail Violin (YouTube)

That was all the reaction I needed!


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## muttnik (Feb 26, 2022)

Decided to finally give Soundpaint a whirl the other day and loving it, especially how easy it is to edit patches. It's technically possible to do similar things inside of Kontakt, but it's nice having it all so accessible with presets for each of the effects readily available, not to mention the quality of said effects is fairly good.

Also pleased to discover you can upgrade to UDS at a later time. It makes jumping in an even easier decision.

Edit: I should also note I'm running it off of a 5400 RPM hard drive and it seems to be coping just fine with that.


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## Bee_Abney (Feb 26, 2022)

muttnik said:


> Decided to finally give Soundpaint a whirl the other day and loving it, especially how easy it is to edit patches. It's technically possible to do similar things inside of Kontakt, but it's nice having it all so accessible with presets for each of the effects readily available, not to mention the quality of said effects is fairly good.
> 
> Also pleased to discover you can upgrade to UDS at a later time. It makes jumping in an even easier decision.
> 
> Edit: I should also note I'm running it off of a 5400 RPM hard drive and it seems to be coping just fine with that.



I'm glad you're enjoying it so far. In a lot of ways it is like using a good library engine inside of Kontakt.

I figured it would work fine on an HDD. I think the development team put in a lot of work optimising it for SSDs; but for most purposes, I doubt it makes a huge difference.


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## c0nsilience (Feb 26, 2022)

I’m currently running mine off of a LaCie rugged external via Thunderbolt 2 and it works great!

Eventually, I’ll upgrade to an SSD.

The UI is so much more fluid than Kontakt. It’s like comparing Apple to Windows 95! 😀


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## c0nsilience (Mar 2, 2022)

Has anyone checked out the Free ASMR library yet? If so, what are your thoughts?


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## filipjonathan (Mar 16, 2022)

Anyone tried the 1990 C7? The SP email says it's "127" layers but the 8Dio Kontakt version says only up to 10 and we all know that 1928 Vintage grand definitely didn't sound like 127 layers even though it was advertised as such.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 16, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> Anyone tried the 1990 C7? The SP email says it's "127" layers but the 8Dio Kontakt version says only up to 10 and we all know that 1928 Vintage grand definitely didn't sound like 127 layers even though it was advertised as such.



The velocity layers are rendered in real time using the initial sample data. The instruments are not sampled at 127 discrete velocities.

Whether you experience this as worthwhile seems to vary between players. I'm not a good judge of pianos myself, but I certainly appreciate this method on other instruments.

The short answer is that there are as many velocity layers as midi gives access to. Or, 127.


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## c0nsilience (Mar 16, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> Anyone tried the 1990 C7? The SP email says it's "127" layers but the 8Dio Kontakt version says only up to 10 and we all know that 1928 Vintage grand definitely didn't sound like 127 layers even though it was advertised as such.


I’ve got a vintage baby grand and I can’t discern any difference between the C7 and it. Dynamic and seamless. Soundpaint rendering in real-time makes this possible.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 16, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> we all know


We do? I guess the VI-C hive mind forgot to assimilate me then?


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## filipjonathan (Mar 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> We do? I guess the VI-C hive mind forgot to assimilate me then?


I remember a few of us noticing it 🤔


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## filipjonathan (Mar 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> The velocity layers are rendered in real time using the initial sample data. The instruments are not sampled at 127 discrete velocities.
> 
> Whether you experience this as worthwhile seems to vary between players. I'm not a good judge of pianos myself, but I certainly appreciate this method on other instruments.
> 
> The short answer is that there are as many velocity layers as midi gives access to. Or, 127.


Hmm it definitely didn't sound like that to me. Volume wise sure, but actual velocity layers, no.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 16, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> I remember a few of us noticing it 🤔


For sure. Which is something entirely different than “all” which is kind of my point


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## c0nsilience (Mar 16, 2022)

It just sounds...beautiful:

1990 Studio Grand Piano C7


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## filipjonathan (Mar 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> For sure. Which is something entirely different than “all” which is kind of my point


I know I know. Should've worded it differently. My bad


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 16, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> I know I know. Should've worded it differently. My bad



But the important thing is that you know what is working for you. If anyone has bought the Soundpaint C7 they might be able to indicate if it feels/sounds more dynamic than the 1928.

Incidentally, the 1928 is an old piano with old strings. I love that sound, but it isn't going to have the clearest high dynamics even before it is sampled. I think it had sentimental significance to Troels, but that another initiatal free piano might have been a better marketing demo.


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## doctoremmet (Mar 16, 2022)

I am hoping my beloved 1985 Passionate Piano (Yamaha C5) is next to get the SP upgrade. Those staccato samples alone would be extremely valuable to have as parts.


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 16, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> We do? I guess the VI-C hive mind forgot to assimilate me then?



'I am Locutus of Vienna Ensemble Pro. You will be assimilated. Resistance is tuneless. '


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## Bee_Abney (Mar 16, 2022)

'Soundpaint is fully functional.'


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## c0nsilience (Mar 16, 2022)

I’ve got the C7 and it is less ‘haunting’ than the 1928. Very much more dynamic across the entire tonal range - clear, articulate, and warm. Sounds like a perfect studio piano. 🙂


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## chomeaso (Mar 30, 2022)

Just got Red 522 and been exploring the bunch of sounds and I like a lot of it.
However I also noticed some of the sounds(programs) are sounding different to the walk-through video I watched.

*1. Filmic Cow(Program)* 

I thought the sound was very cool and I loaded that program myself and found it was very different to what I heard on the video.

Found out why, when I loaded the program it does load all the right effects and stuff only exception of actual part.

When I load the program it loads a part called "Drums - Red 522 UDS All Pitches Kit 1 Wet"
and on the video it is 'Drums - Red 522 UDS Post-Distortion Worl..."

And Walla, it sounds like the video.
a bit of hassle but I figured out.

*2. Filter Kit 2(Program) * 

As soon as I turned up the mod-wheel it sounded pretty much similar to the video.
However, something was still missing.
Ohhhh yes.
The arp pattern was looking slightly different to what I saw on the video.

Yes, it is for us to manipulate those patterns and get creative with it.
but it would have been nice to get the exact pattern from the video when you purchase it.
Eventually that's the sound we heard and made us(or me) to get it.

*3. Filter Velo(Program)* 

Okay, maybe I'm missing something.
This patch is not in my library at all. 
Mysterious.



Here are the lists of things I found so far after I purchased this library. It's only been 1-2 hours.
I like many things in it. Don't get me wrong, I also like playing around massing up the patch.
but really. I usually like to get exact product I saw on the promotional video.


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## KenV (Apr 22, 2022)

I picked up the Braahms Horn Generator. The sounds are definitely cool. But they really should say in the description that you are completely limited by the sample lengths. There is no way to extend the notes beyond about a half note at 120. I chatted with support and they said that they are working on internal looping or time stretching and should be ready by July-ish. I went back and listened to the demos and sure enough, everything played is relatively short. So buyer beware. 
Left me kinda disappointed and worried about buying anything else at this point.


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 22, 2022)

KenV said:


> I picked up the Braahms Horn Generator. The sounds are definitely cool. But they really should say in the description that you are completely limited by the sample lengths. There is no way to extend the notes beyond about a half note at 120. I chatted with support and they said that they are working on internal looping or time stretching and should be ready by July-ish. I went back and listened to the demos and sure enough, everything played is relatively short. So buyer beware.
> Left me kinda disappointed and worried about buying anything else at this point.


That's very unfortunate. Combined with other libraries, this should work well enough - braams are, generically speaking, not over long; and when they have a tail it is due to other elements in the layers than the biggest sounds. If you have any of the other brass (GBrass or the mellotron brass, or a brassy synth sound), you can layer in other notes. You can also massage the delay and reverb to lengthen the tail.

But it makes sense to expect that a breams library would include all that you need.

Now that you are on your guard, it may be worth emailing support with questions if you find yourself suspicious of what another library might have failed to include.


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## Henning (Apr 22, 2022)

KenV said:


> I picked up the Braahms Horn Generator. The sounds are definitely cool. But they really should say in the description that you are completely limited by the sample lengths. There is no way to extend the notes beyond about a half note at 120. I chatted with support and they said that they are working on internal looping or time stretching and should be ready by July-ish. I went back and listened to the demos and sure enough, everything played is relatively short. So buyer beware.
> Left me kinda disappointed and worried about buying anything else at this point.


I don't know about the Brahms stuff but from what I see what is happening in beta I can definitely tell you that the Soundpaint engine is continually evolving and they are working on new features round the clock. So when they say there will be looping and timestretching I'm quite convinced this will happen.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 22, 2022)

Timestretching is in development for sure; can confirm. So is legato. So in the foreseeable future a lot of the current parts will gain some… capabilities


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## Technostica (Apr 22, 2022)

KenV said:


> I picked up the Braahms Horn Generator. The sounds are definitely cool. But they really should say in the description that you are completely limited by the sample lengths. There is no way to extend the notes beyond about a half note at 120. I chatted with support and they said that they are working on internal looping or time stretching and should be ready by July-ish. I went back and listened to the demos and sure enough, everything played is relatively short. So buyer beware.
> Left me kinda disappointed and worried about buying anything else at this point.


"Soundpaint has a 2 week refund policy for sound library purchases, which means you have 2 weeks after initiating your download to request a return."









Refund policy


AN INSTRUMENT MULTIVERSE




soundpaint.com


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## davidson (Apr 22, 2022)

Technostica said:


> "Soundpaint has a 2 week refund policy for sound library purchases, which means you have 2 weeks after initiating your download to request a return."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well I never knew about that, that's a good move.

@KenV Yeah, the lack of any kind of time stretching is a huge negative but like others have said, it's coming. Get yourself on their discord and message someone on there to get access to the beta.


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## KenV (Apr 23, 2022)

Thanks to all of you for your responses and thoughts. I actually was planning to layer these with BBCSO as @Bee_Abney said up above and the section had notes that were literally a dot too long. I noticed that the lower notes were a longer duration as I played with it more, obviously they are stretching for pitch. So I played an octave down, rendered it and then transposed it back up. It wouldn’t have worked if it was solo, but in this case, all good. 
I’m going to keep it bc of what you guys said above and hope that it they implement looping or stretching in the future. And the shorts really do sound great. It’s my fault for thinking that it would have longer notes like the Fallout Music Group Braams plugin. And I want support people trying to innovate


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 23, 2022)

KenV said:


> Thanks to all of you for your responses and thoughts. I actually was planning to layer these with BBCSO as @Bee_Abney said up above and the section had notes that were literally a dot too long. I noticed that the lower notes were a longer duration as I played with it more, obviously they are stretching for pitch. So I played an octave down, rendered it and then transposed it back up. It wouldn’t have worked if it was solo, but in this case, all good.
> I’m going to keep it bc of what you guys said above and hope that it they implement looping or stretching in the future. And the shorts really do sound great. It’s my fault for thinking that it would have longer notes like the Fallout Music Group Braams plugin. And I want support people trying to innovate


That's great. Soundpaint is definitely a tool for creating sounds, but I'm sorry this library didn't have what you needed without some work.

I do like a nice Braam. I don't get to use them often but, oh, when I hear them... It just runs through your body, head to toes.


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## Aeonata (Apr 25, 2022)

Does anybody know if there is some sort of crossgrade to Soundpaint libraries if you own the corresponding 8Dio libraries? For example, in the newest "Hit and Impact" libraries I hear a lot of stuff from 8Dios Hybrid Tools 2 (which I own). Same with the Sub Hits/Booms which has material from "8Dio Terminus". As far as I can see, this is not stated clearly on the Soundpaint website (which I think it should...). I'm a big fan of all the 8Dio/Soundpaint Hybrid products, but I don't like paying twice for the same samples.


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## doctoremmet (Apr 25, 2022)

They have done this for obvious 1:1 ports like Caisa Drum, 10 Analog Synths and Bazantar. Very fair crossgrades to be honest. $10.

I had the exact same feeling you have about the hybrid stuff and whether or not they are repurposed samples as well. Maybe in that case they used source material from various older 8Dio libraries and decided not to offer crossgrading? But that’s just me speculating. Maybe just ask them.


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 26, 2022)

You might have a good case for a crossgrade. It depends on the overlap. 

I suspect the per sample price (original cost divided by the number of samples) is low relative to the amount of new work. Given the comparatively low price of the new libraries, the per-reused sample cost is even smaller, plus it is in a new format with new capabilities (it's only fair to charge for that, it cost them a lot to develop it). Unless the product is very largely based on old samples, I don't think there is much 'overpaying' involved if you own earlier products that have some samples in common.

I don't know how extensive the overlap is, though. So, it might be very reasonable to expect a crossgrade.

I know that another company has some products with 100% re-used samples (except impulse responses), yet they feel the new programming, together with the low basic price, justifies not offering crossgrade prices at all. (Bela de Media and the Native Voice range. They offer crossgrades on other products, though.)

But you should definitely email them. Soundpaint seem to be doing their best to respond to such issues.


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## Troels Folmann (Apr 26, 2022)

Understood. 

If you will allow me to clarify our sentiment.

We've offered several crossgrades for 8Dio products in Soundpaint, however we generally don't do it for products that are mixing parts of multiple libraries together. For example, today's release "Hits and Impacts" is utilizing curated assets from four different 8Dio libraries. Add to that several dozens of new Programs and all with the flexibility and benefits of a free engine. Add the expenses related to curating, porting, mastering, programming and creating parts, building all the new programs. Offering it all on a wicked fast and secure server system + over 330 different world-class sound designs. $30 seems pretty reasonable - to me at least.

In regards to the previous comments on Braahms. 

I normally use the Module > Offset to adjust lengths and I will trigger it twice wif it is not long enough.

However ...

We are currently prototyping a new type of time-stretcher that offers a highly flexible and unique way of time-stretching/compressing our samples. It can almost become anything from a pure time-stretcher to a super long paul-stretcher. It also runs independently per part, so I can go really crazy with it. It is surprisingly mild on the CPU since it runs in our own Real-Time sample format (one of the many benefits of creating a new format).

Our Time module will be a free addition to the free Soundpaint engine. An engine that is about to get free User Sample Import too. However I also mention this because none of these things are free to develop and we really try our best with Soundpaint to be reasonable in our pricing.

Keep the feedback coming. We are constantly learning and adapting to this too. 

With love, T


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## Aeonata (Apr 26, 2022)

Troels Folmann said:


> Understood.
> 
> If you will allow me to clarify our sentiment.
> 
> We've offered several crossgrades for 8Dio products in Soundpaint, however we generally don't do it for products that are mixing parts of multiple libraries together. For example, today's release "Hits and Impacts" is utilizing curated assets from four different 8Dio libraries. Add to that several dozens of new Programs and all with the flexibility and benefits of a free engine. Add the expenses related to curating, porting, mastering, programming and creating parts, building all the new programs. Offering it all on a wicked fast and secure server system + over 330 different world-class sound designs. $30 seems pretty reasonable - to me at least.


Thank you Troels for clarification! 
I'm not complaining about pricing, I was just uncertain which libraries contain new sounds (as for example the hybrid emotions library) and which ones are made from "old" samples. Would be great if you guys could specify that somewhere on the product page (something like "contains samples from libraries x,y,z plus 100 new sounds" would already make it clear!). 

I understand that implementing an upgrade path for existing 8Dio users, depending on how many libraries they own would be way too complicated.
Love the new engine and the sounds and I'm looking forward to new releases!


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## Troels Folmann (Apr 26, 2022)

Aeonata said:


> Thank you Troels for clarification!
> I'm not complaining about pricing, I was just uncertain which libraries contain new sounds (as for example the hybrid emotions library) and which ones are made from "old" samples. Would be great if you guys could specify that somewhere on the product page (something like "contains samples from libraries x,y,z plus 100 new sounds" would already make it clear!).
> 
> I understand that implementing an upgrade path for existing 8Dio users, depending on how many libraries they own would be way too complicated.
> Love the new engine and the sounds and I'm looking forward to new releases!


Noted.


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## Henning (Apr 26, 2022)

What I really like about SP is its ease of use and that it is so intuitive . I did the demo for Impacts and Hits in quite a short time one morning including pre- listening to the sounds. The engine really is a gem and it's getting better with every update.


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## davidson (Apr 26, 2022)

So it *is* made up from existing libraries that a lot of us already purchased from 8dio? I wish you would be more upfront about these kinds of things.


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## KenV (Apr 26, 2022)

Troels Folmann said:


> Understood.
> 
> If you will allow me to clarify our sentiment.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the creative tip on extending the Braams - a much better idea than I came up with! And I agree with you completely that the price points at which you are offering these things is very low and competitive for the value that we receive. Lastly, the fact that you come on here and reply raises your company's credibility immensely in my eyes. Engagement is key


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## c0nsilience (Apr 26, 2022)

https://soundpaint.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/5267612042139-Soundpaint-8Dio-Crossgrade-libraries



Reach out to [email protected]

They are super helpful and very fast to respond, at least they have been with any questions I’ve had in the past.


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 26, 2022)

davidson said:


> So it *is* made up from existing libraries that a lot of us already purchased from 8dio? I wish you would be more upfront about these kinds of things.



I think part of the issue is that they want to keep the website very streamlined. Perhaps they don't want to wear the 8Dio connection on the surface either. My guess is that this is part of appealing to new markets.

For myself, like you, I'd love having a lot more specifications on the website. I wouldn't expect a precise enumeration of the origins of each sample. I'd love it, but no-one does that. A brief mention of overlap isn't unusual, though.

However, the website is also marketing, and I can imagine they don't want people to get the (false) idea that this these are just repackaged old products. Not everyone will take the time to learn why that isn't so.


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## davidson (Apr 26, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I think part of the issue is that they want to keep the website very streamlined. Perhaps they don't want to wear the 8Dio connection on the surface either. My guess is that this is part of appealing to new markets.
> 
> For myself, like you, I'd love having a lot more specifications on the website. I wouldn't expect a precise enumeration of the origins of each sample. I'd love it, but no-one does that. A brief mention of overlap isn't unusual, though.
> 
> However, the website is also marketing, and I can imagine they don't want people to get the (false) idea that this these are just repackaged old products. Not everyone will take the time to learn why that isn't so.


I hear you, but they can't blame users for having trust issues. Look at the Insolidus / Lacrimosa situation where I discovered both libraries share the EXACT same content. Completely ignored by 8dio when I asked about it https://vi-control.net/community/th...s-woodwinds-at-70-off-148.120337/post-5052122

So yeah, I've spent a fortune with 8dio and soundpaint and will carry on doing so if they sell something I need, but I'm now extremely dubious with their releases.


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## axb312 (Apr 26, 2022)

Troels Folmann said:


> Understood.
> 
> If you will allow me to clarify our sentiment.
> 
> ...


The price of individual Soundpaint libs is starting to add up. Smart way to make more money from existing samples though.


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## c0nsilience (Apr 26, 2022)

davidson said:


> So yeah, I've spent a fortune with 8dio and soundpaint and will carry on doing so if they sell something I need, but I'm now extremely dubious with their releases.


Caveat emptor should be par for the course with any company that would like to separate you from your money - which is every company on the planet! 

*Here is my two cents:

Soundpaint *as an engine, for a beta, for being a ½ year out the gate, is really, really quick to allow me to get ideas down and sits great in a mix. They could (and probably should) charge for the engine and they don't. Their libraries are priced very well and come out constantly. The support has been great and they have a very active community on Discord and interact with their customers.

*NI Kontakt: *Great full-blown sampler, huge amount of content, most libraries available for it cost a fair amount of money (even the 8Dio ones) and it is really long in the tooth in many ways, not too mention NI being owned by what amounts to a holding company. Support is still good for such a large company, though.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Apr 26, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> Caveat emptor should be par for the course with any company that would like to separate you from your money - which is every company on the planet!
> 
> *Here is my two cents:
> 
> ...


I think that Kontakt comment on price though is a bit off. Just look at Etheras and cost point there...swivel to Pianobook, etc. I love all these things from a sense of neutrality, they all bring something and I general pay what something is worth and of it ain't worth it I'm not paying.


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 26, 2022)

davidson said:


> I hear you, but they can't blame users for having trust issues. Look at the Insolidus / Lacrimosa situation where I discovered both libraries share the EXACT same content. Completely ignored by 8dio when I asked about it https://vi-control.net/community/th...s-woodwinds-at-70-off-148.120337/post-5052122
> 
> So yeah, I've spent a fortune with 8dio and soundpaint and will carry on doing so if they sell something I need, but I'm now extremely dubious with their releases.


Good point; I don't blame you at all!


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## Dirtgrain (Apr 26, 2022)

Have Soundpaint designers considered adding a convolution feature like what is in the Christopher Young instrument, where one can make an IR from a sound created in Soundpaint that one can then apply to other sounds in Soundpaint? Maybe even it could have an IR morphing (or crossfading?) feature like what is in BT Phobos (never tried this one). This might sound like overkill to some, given Soundpaint's morphing ability, but I wonder.


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 26, 2022)

Dirtgrain said:


> Have Soundpaint designers considered adding a convolution feature like what is in the Christopher Young instrument, where one can make an IR from a sound created in Soundpaint that one can then apply to other sounds in Soundpaint? Maybe even it could have an IR morphing (or crossfading?) feature like what is in BT Phobos (never tried this one). This might sound like overkill to some, given Soundpaint's morphing ability, but I wonder.


I think Troels would consider it overkill. He's mentioned how they had more feature rich versions as part of the development process and that it got trimmed down. Which is not to say that more won't be added in time.

Obviously, you can extract any sound you like from Soundpaint by playing it into your DAW, bouncing it to audio, and popping it into an external reverb. There are even plugins aimed at using impulse responses for speaker cabinets that can morph between multiple IRs. I haven't beet too sure about them as I think it is likely to be a) CPU heavy and b) might not morph between the IRs smoothly.

Here's one that I was looking at that can merge three:









faIRmageddon - Guitar Cabinet Impulse Response Designer VST/AU/AAX


faIRmageddon is a powerful Guitar Cabinet Impulse Response Designer created for the needs of the guitar players of the 21st century. Combine, adjust, align, transform and manipulate your favorite IRs to get your own unique sound! Available as VST/AU/AAX for Windows & Mac.



www.forward-audio.com





This one can merge eight and is on sale for just $5 at the moment, though it doesn't have the XY pad:









TRVE Cab - Impulse Response Loader


TRVE Cab is an Impulse Response loader designed for Heavy Rock & Metal Guitarists of any caliber. Simplified workflow - endless possibilities.TRVE Cab comes in VST/AU/AAX format and can be used in both studio & live applications. Load up to 8 IR’s simultaneously via 8 separate slots Cabinet...




ugritone.com





This one has the XY, and can combine up eight IRs, but can't pan them:









STL Ignite - Libra


The world's first Impulse Response Mixer that allows users to visually mix up to 8 Impulse Responses at the same time. Zero latency. Each IR has it’s own controllable functions for maximum flexibility.




www.stltones.com


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## c0nsilience (Apr 26, 2022)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> I think that Kontakt comment on price though is a bit off. Just look at Etheras and cost point there...swivel to Pianobook, etc. I love all these things from a sense of neutrality, they all bring something and I general pay what something is worth and of it ain't worth it I'm not paying.


I don’t disagree, save for the fact that Kontakt is typically $199 which is not a free engine. Soundpaint is way more feature-rich than the Kontakt Player, so the two aren’t really comparable. From that perspective, I definitely think it’s worth mentioning the price point.

Most of the Kontakt libraries I’ve used and found useful are also $100+, at least, including the 8Dio libraries. Again, the Soundpaint libraries are relatively cheap in comparison.

If you start stacking features on Soundpaint, then you’ll find yourself in Falcon, HALion, and Omnisphere territory, which is a space I don’t think they are trying to occupy.


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## PrimeEagle (Apr 26, 2022)

davidson said:


> So it *is* made up from existing libraries that a lot of us already purchased from 8dio? I wish you would be more upfront about these kinds of things.


I get the impression that some samples were sourced from older libraries, but enough was changed and added on that it is no longer really duplicate content.


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## c0nsilience (Apr 26, 2022)

PrimeEagle said:


> I get the impression that some samples were sourced from older libraries, but enough was changed and added on that it is no longer really duplicate content.


Even if it were duplicate content down to the sample, the engines are so radically different and the price point is not really even comparable. It is a different experience. If someone doesn’t realize this, then they probably won’t get much benefit from Soundpaint, which is also fine. 

If you drive an F-150 and then you drive a Bugatti, you are still the same person, but the experience is vastly different, right? 😉

In my estimation, the only comparison is really in the size of the libraries themselves. 8Dio libraries are massive and so are some of the Soundpaint libraries.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Apr 26, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> I don’t disagree, save for the fact that Kontakt is typically $199 which is not a free engine. Soundpaint is way more feature-rich than the Kontakt Player, so the two aren’t really comparable. From that perspective, I definitely think it’s worth mentioning the price point.
> 
> Most of the Kontakt libraries I’ve used and found useful are also $100+, at least, including the 8Dio libraries. Again, the Soundpaint libraries are relatively cheap in comparison.
> 
> If you start stacking features on Soundpaint, then you’ll find yourself in Falcon, HALion, and Omnisphere territory, which is a space I don’t think they are trying to occupy.


I think we are mostly in alignment but I'm not sure Soundpaint is as feature rich. Maybe it will be but we do not have legato capabilities right now and my sense is kontakt is not marketing to you and I but to developers and enables them the features to what they need to market to you. That's different in the soundpaint is making it easy for us to do what we want...both are good.

I would step out of the way for a Kontakt dev to comment but again I'm neither team red or blue here I just think Soundpaint is great at what it does and Kontakt is too. Kontakt has stuff soundpaint doesn't have, soundpaint has things as well that are unique. Prices for me are good with soundpaint but I wouldn't say I can buy a legato library from it, or a choir right now that's fluid. I can't get 8W or Silka even from 8dio much less a Performance Samples library....they sit right in Kontakt for now. 

I love Soundpaint, it's ease of usability and it's literally like painting when you get in it for what you can do though. I'm totally bought in to it and it's roadmap and a fanboy...and frankly Kontakt too...I don't think Native Instruments has no plans and all that money.

It's a good time to be alive.


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## c0nsilience (Apr 26, 2022)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> I think we are mostly in alignment but I'm not sure Soundpaint is as feature rich. Maybe it will be but we do not have legato capabilities right now and my sense is kontakt is not marketing to you and I but to developers and enables them the features to what they need to market to you. That's different in the soundpaint is making it easy for us to do what we want...both are good.
> 
> I would step out of the way for a Kontakt dev to comment but again I'm neither team red or blue here I just think Soundpaint is great at what it does and Kontakt is too. Kontakt has stuff soundpaint doesn't have, soundpaint has things as well that are unique. Prices for me are good with soundpaint but I wouldn't say I can buy a legato library from it, or a choir right now that's fluid. I can't get 8W or Silka even from 8dio much less a Performance Samples library....they sit right in Kontakt for now.
> 
> ...


Great perspective and I'm with you, it's a great time to be alive. Option paralysis is a real thing, but I do enjoy having the options to cherry pick whatever tools are needed for the task at hand!


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 26, 2022)

I'm very much looking forward to importing our own samples, and to the time stretching that they are working on. I'm less concerned about legato - at least, about true legato. I like legato well enough, but it is rarely particularly good. And it is available in plenty of other places, including Kontakt. What I am keen on, though, is the arrival of the instrument libraries that we are likely to get once we have legato.

Of course, if the morphing technology makes a whole new (and hopefully improved!) legato available, then that would be highly attractive.

I also love the libraries that Soundpaint have been releasing. I don't use their Programs a great deal, except to learn from; but they show the thought that has gone into creating a set of Parts that have great potential.


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 26, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> Great perspective and I'm with you, it's a great time to be alive. Option paralysis is a real thing, but I do enjoy having the options to cherry pick whatever tools are needed for the task at hand!


I don't know why, and I'm not intending to swagger about it, but I just don't get option paralysis with music. I think it's because I played pretty much just one and the same acoustic guitar for twenty-seven years. Or maybe I'm just lucky.

I do love getting to play with new sounds, though.


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## c0nsilience (Apr 26, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't know why, and I'm not intending to swagger about it, but I just don't get option paralysis with music. I think it's because I played pretty much just one and the same acoustic guitar for twenty-seven years. Or maybe I'm just lucky.
> 
> I do love getting to play with new sounds, though.


I wish I had the strength of your resolve (my wife does too!). Unfortunately, I try out way too many things, especially when it comes to music. Once the tech was there to really make the switch from hardware synthesis, I jumped in headfirst and never looked back. I've got to pair it down and have a few times, but I think it's time for some spring cleaning again.

All in all, I really like Soundpaint and I want to see a great future of development there. But, I like a lot of tools. At the end of the day, do they add value to my life and art or do they not? Soundpaint makes me smile, so I'm still digging it. I think a lot of us are in the same boat.


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 26, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> I wish I had the strength of your resolve (my wife does too!). Unfortunately, I try out way too many things, especially when it comes to music. Once the tech was there to really make the switch from hardware synthesis, I jumped in headfirst and never looked back. I've got to pair it down and have a few times, but I think it's time for some spring cleaning again.
> 
> All in all, I really like Soundpaint and I want to see a great future of development there. But, I like a lot of tools. At the end of the day, do they add value to my life and art or do they not? Soundpaint makes me smile, so I'm still digging it. I think a lot of us are in the same boat.


A smile is, apparently, worth hundreds of dollars... Or is it priceless? Probably priceless.


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## c0nsilience (Apr 26, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> A smile is, apparently, worth hundreds of dollars... Or is it priceless? Probably priceless.


The Smile - William Blake

There is a Smile of Love
And there is a Smile of Deceit
And there is a Smile of Smiles
In which these two Smiles meet

And there is a Frown of Hate
And there is a Frown of disdain
And there is a Frown of Frowns
Which you strive to forget in vain

For it sticks in the Hearts deep Core
And it sticks in the deep Back bone
And no Smile that ever was smild
But only one Smile alone

That betwixt the Cradle & Grave
It only once Smild can be
But when it once is Smild
Theres an end to all Misery 
—
I’d go with the latter…priceless. 😀


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## Bee_Abney (Apr 26, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> The Smile - William Blake
> 
> There is a Smile of Love
> And there is a Smile of Deceit
> ...


I always smile when I think about mortality! It's a wonderfully rich poem, thank you for posting it; I'm not sure if I ever read it.


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## c0nsilience (Apr 26, 2022)

Thank you. I was a little familiar with Blake, but had never read that poem until the Radiohead side project, The Smile, formed. 🙂


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## Digivolt (May 11, 2022)

Any thoughts on the latest Soundpaint library the Downers and Falls ?



Sounds pretty good but seems limited considering the $40 tag


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## c0nsilience (May 11, 2022)

Just as interesting as the other offerings in the Hybrid Cinema category. It will be interesting to feast on the entire buffet when the category is completely filled out. 

What are your thoughts on it?


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## Bee_Abney (May 11, 2022)

A really good sample pack of wav files with fewer samples than this can cost a lot more. For that reason, I consider this price very reasonable.

Some of the sounds can definitely be used as instruments, or to blend with other libraries to create playable instruments. This should be even better once we get time stretching.

I'd definitely use this library if I had it, but there are a few other ahead of it on my wish list. For trailer music and heavier music, I think it is a very good library. But for most of us, it is likely a low priority.


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## PrimeEagle (May 11, 2022)

I don’t know, $40 is pretty cheap for almost anything in the sample library world. The quality is pretty good on this and isn’t this the one with the real orchestral effects too? Seems pretty good to me.


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## Bee_Abney (May 11, 2022)

PrimeEagle said:


> I don’t know, $40 is pretty cheap for almost anything in the sample library world. The quality is pretty good on this and isn’t this the one with the real orchestral effects too? Seems pretty good to me.


Yes, this one includes original material recorded specially with a live acoustic orchestra.


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## c0nsilience (May 11, 2022)

Yep, while the modular approach is fantastic by offering pick & choose options, the entire Soundpaint collection of libraries will realistically be $$$ when it’s all said and done. A worthy investment, but a significant investment nonetheless should one want the entire collection. 

Personally, I’m much more interested in how Sample Import will continue to evolve as their development progresses.


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## Bee_Abney (May 11, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> Yep, while the modular approach is fantastic by offering pick & choose options, the entire Soundpaint collection of libraries will realistically be $$$ when it’s all said and done. A worthy investment, but a significant investment nonetheless should one want the entire collection.
> 
> Personally, I’m much more interested in how Sample Import will continue to evolve as their development progresses.


Yes, imagine that: a free engine with own sample import and time stretching at this level of quality. Even if you never bought a library, you'd have a very powerful tool for sound design and instrument creation.

I think that the libraries have been very well made, so I'm only too happy to buy them when I can, and when they line up with my work; but being able to use samples that aren't from their libraries would give me a lot more to work with.

Of course, to go back to @Digivolt's comment, the Downers and Falls library is not something that everyone would want to buy. They'd rather have a little of that content spread between other libraries that have wider utitility. This means that, without ever being overpriced, it can be more expensive to get all of your bases covered with Soundpaint products than with certain other approaches.

But outside of the Albions, or all-in-one orchestras, there aren't a huge number of companies trying to provide products like that. So, if Soundpaint doesn't either, that's fine by me.

Oddly enough, I think I'd rather pay, say £600 for separate specialist libraries spread over a year or two than I would pay £300 all at once for a selection from each of the other libraries. If I get too much all at once, it seems to take me even longer to get to grips with it; and I rarely know in advance which parts of one of those big products will be really useful to me. But maybe there could be a future Soundpaint equivalent of the Albions. I doubt it, but we are a long way from that being possible at the moment.


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## Digivolt (May 11, 2022)

PrimeEagle said:


> I don’t know, $40 is pretty cheap for almost anything in the sample library world. The quality is pretty good on this and isn’t this the one with the real orchestral effects too? Seems pretty good to me.


I should have said compared to the $20 soundpaint libraries. $40 is still good in the grand scheme of all libs


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## Technostica (May 11, 2022)

Digivolt said:


> I should have said compared to the $20 soundpaint libraries. $40 is still good in the grand scheme of all libs


There's a danger in comparing libraries based on price, even from the same vendor.
Every library will have it's own cost of production and that is not clear to us.
Plus there are other factors to consider when pricing things.
For example, if you anticipate a low demand for a library, you may price it higher than for another with a similar cost of production.

In one sense, their pricing model can create a sense of expectation/hope/entitlement in that everything will be $20 - $40.


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## Henning (May 11, 2022)

Well, I did a demo for this. But actually 40$ for that much content is really a steal. There are 20 parts, so basically 0,50 cent per part. I absolutely dig the orchestral falls. You can really make a very cool background ambience in no time.


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## mussnig (May 11, 2022)

Henning said:


> Well, I did a demo for this. But actually 40$ for that much content is really a steal. There are 20 parts, so basically 0,50 cent per part. I absolutely dig the orchestral falls. You can really make a very cool background ambience in no time.


You mean 2$ per part, right? Still a good price.


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## Henning (May 11, 2022)

mussnig said:


> You mean 2$ per part, right? Still a good price.


Maths, never my strong point


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## Lee Blaske (May 13, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> Yep, while the modular approach is fantastic by offering pick & choose options, the entire Soundpaint collection of libraries will realistically be $$$ when it’s all said and done.


As long as the company is in business, I don't expect it'll ever be "done."


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## Jeremy Morgan (May 13, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> As long as the company is in business, I don't expect it'll ever be "done."


Listen to the dog, he knows what he is talking about.


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## Bee_Abney (May 13, 2022)

Funnily enough, I don't use any of their Hybrid libraries in hybrid music. I'd be pleased to get more; though I'm keenly awaiting the acoustic sustains when legato comes in.


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## mrfabzzz (May 14, 2022)

*My 2 cents:*

Like some said before, I see this software as a possible replacement for Kontakt.

I think it has huge strengths:

- every instrument is in the same software/environment (by opposition to Kontakt, where each library has a different GUI that you need to learn), it's a quick workflow
- each instrument add a large number of new possibilities with the parts.
- a lot of patches instead of just one: you buy a piano and you get a lot of inspiring/different preset, there is a huge potential for classic libraries (I feel like publishers are underestimating the usefulness.)
- no need to buy kontakt (for beginner is something important)
- fast
- backed by 8dio (huge catalogue covering a lot)
- etc.

I saw that legato is planned, I hope they will add classic libraries (fire trumpet, quartet string, etc.) with articulations / ornament. I know they try to avoid using them but it will be necessary for classic stuff to not be quickly limited (a guitar patch without a way to slide up/down...). With this it will become a complete workstation.

There are a few features/things that I feel are really missing:
- better volume balance between patch
- a vu meter to see if the sound volume/is clipping
- a little piano to see the articulations, but also, explain a patch i.e, one color for each different sample (& the area cover by the patch)
- tags (& description) to filter presets, this is a thing that should be quickly fixed as it needs to add the info on all patches: i.e, filter all ARP across the librairies, Ambiance patches, etc.

In short it has a huge potential, I am looking forward to see the following.


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## Bee_Abney (May 14, 2022)

mrfabzzz said:


> *My 2 cents:*
> 
> Like some said before, I see this software as a possible replacement for Kontakt.
> 
> ...


Just to note that I believe the master volume display turns red when there is clipping. It then stays red until you click it.


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## holywilly (May 14, 2022)

Maybe we can start a thread for program sharing when the updated Soundpaint engine is available publicly.


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## Bee_Abney (May 14, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Maybe we can start a thread for program sharing when the updated Soundpaint engine is available publicly.


If they don't implement anything on the main site, I expect Soundpaint will be encouraging people to that on their Discord.


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## holywilly (May 14, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> If they don't implement anything on the main site, I expect Soundpaint will be encouraging people to that on their Discord.


And on VI-C too.


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## Digivolt (May 16, 2022)

holywilly said:


> Maybe we can start a thread for program sharing when the updated Soundpaint engine is available publicly.


I would hope they might do something like Spitfire does with Pianobook but obviously exclusive to Soundpaint OR Pianobook has a Soundpaint section, that would work too


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## sostenuto (May 16, 2022)

Discord is what Support suggested __ when I chatted re. recent post offering SP 'shared' content.
Darn !!! Hope I can now recall the provider. He had a YT video as well .... just last week ??
I thought the new version of SP is now on Discord ? 
(edit) Got it _ v1.1


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## sostenuto (May 16, 2022)

Found it. Arctic Fox Studios. Here is YT Link. Hope some Soundpaint gurus have reviewed this and can comment ! Dnld'd his Arctic Fox 1 userLibrary.lib _ but need to sort how to use it.


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## Bee_Abney (May 19, 2022)

I still haven't got around to watching the video @sostenuto posted. I thought it related to what was available to beta testers.

Anyway, anyone can now update Soundpaint to allow for own-sample import. As I have done here. One Program made up of three Parts I generated from three samples - a stream, the stream processed into a musical note, and noise from the synth Bento that has been heavily processed.


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## sostenuto (May 19, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I still haven't got around to watching the video @sostenuto posted. I thought it related to what was available to beta testers.
> 
> Anyway, anyone can now update Soundpaint to allow for own-sample import. As I have done here. One Program made up of three parts I generated from three samples - a stream, the stream processed into a musical note, and noise of the synth Bento that has been heavily processed.


Too early to think of Halloween ! 👻 
Installed new SP version and now have all Arctic Fox 1 userLibrary.lib installed. 
Link is in YT vid and maybe worth auditioning ??? 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## c0nsilience (May 19, 2022)

One of the missed opportunities, imo, with User Sample Import is the acceptance of only 48000 sample rates. This adds an extra piece of software and a few extra clicks in the process. Not a massive deal or even a dealbreaker, just a little less convenient.

Hopefully, that changes in the future as I'd really like to see Soundpaint reach such great heights!


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## Bee_Abney (May 19, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Too early to think of Halloween ! 👻
> Installed new SP version and now have all Arctic Fox 1 userLibrary.lib installed.
> Link is in YT vid and maybe worth auditioning ??? 🤷🏻‍♂️


It probably is. I'll have to actually look into it properly this time!


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## Bee_Abney (May 19, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> One of the missed opportunities, imo, with User Sample Import is the acceptance of only 48000 sample rates. This adds an extra piece of software and a few extra clicks in the process. Not a massive deal or even a dealbreaker, just a little less convenient.
> 
> Hopefully, that changes in the future as I'd really like to see Soundpaint reach such great heights!


How long after you'd heard about own-sample import being available to all did you become dissatisfied with life?

I'm sure that there is a technical reason for this limitation and that it isn't arbitrary; so I think that you are right that this is the beginning, not the end.

We just got to import any samples we like! And nearly all samples made with musicians in mind are 48kHz. Obviously, a higher sample rate is good if you are going to be messing about with the audio; but for those occasions with a different sample rate, it is at least easy, even if not maximally convenient, to export samples with a new sample rate.


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## StefanoM (May 19, 2022)

Troels Folmann said:


> Understood.
> \
> 
> However ...
> ...



Very Cool Troels..


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## c0nsilience (May 19, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> How long after you'd heard about own-sample import being available to all did you become dissatisfied with life?


I'm not following. What makes you think I'm dissatisfied with life? 


Most of the samples I've dealt with are 44.1kHz, but I'm not a massive sample user either, so take it fwiw.


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## Bee_Abney (May 19, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> I'm not following. What makes you think I'm dissatisfied with life?
> 
> 
> Most of the samples I've dealt with are 44.1kHz, but I'm not a massive sample user either, so take it fwiw.


Why, nothing at all!!

It was only a little joke, affectionately meant. I do hope that it came across that way, I apologise if it did not. I think that the concern is entirely sensible. The first sample I tried to import (not one I'd created) was rejected because it wasn't 48 kHz.

Most samples that I've bought in sample packs have been 48 kHz, largely because you have to pay (quite rightly) more for 96 kHz, and because I have deliberately avoided going for lower sample rates - although older samples at lower rates often still sound great. After all, 44.1 kHz is more than double anything that I can hear.


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## Technostica (May 19, 2022)

With CDs using 44.1kHz it's an obvious rate to support in a future 'boomer' update.


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## c0nsilience (May 19, 2022)

Boomer update? Lol

We’re not looking for Soundpaint to cut tracks to wax or anything. Although, imagine the novelty of a gramophone? Maybe 3D print some of the Bras creations? 😉…sorry, I mean weave them in a loom. A textile mod would be…interesting.


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## c0nsilience (May 19, 2022)

Soundpaint is still really cool, but CUBE and what Peter V has brewing is likely to give them some very fierce competition. Option paralysis might likely ensue. Isn’t it a great time to be alive and creative?


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## Bee_Abney (May 19, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> Soundpaint is still really cool, but CUBE and what Peter V has brewing is likely to give them some very fierce competition. Option paralysis might likely ensue. Isn’t it a great time to be alive and creative?


I don't know. That whole 'only 48 kHz' thing. I just don't know if it is worth it anymore.

I'm going back to beating the ground with a stick.


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## Technostica (May 19, 2022)

I do recall when 48kHz was seen more as a format for video than music. 
Presumably because that's what DVDs used. 
I would think that 44.1/48 16/24 are the base formats to aim for.


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## StefanoM (May 19, 2022)

The SR Standard Audio For Picture is 48Khz ( also for examples Dolby Atmos and other) or 96 kHz and 192 kHz.

The 44.1 is just an OLD CD Standard, and now it is not so useful working at this Sample Rate.


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## c0nsilience (May 19, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> The SR Standard Audio For Picture is 48Khz ( also for examples Dolby Atmos and other) or 96 kHz and 192 kHz.
> 
> The 44.1 is just an OLD CD Standard, and now it is not so useful working at this Sample Rate.


Yep that makes sense. Thank you for the information! 🙂


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## Bee_Abney (May 19, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> Yep that makes sense. Thank you for the information! 🙂


Troels has stated in a reply to to a YouTube comment from @umanoid that import of 44.1kHz is coming.



More importantly for the development of Soundpaint overall, we have a reference to Program and Part sharing, legato being on the way, and the release of a more advanced editor/importer later this year that should enable us - and professional third-party developers - to create full instruments with round robins and velocity layers, as well as the new legato (which means that is coming soo, too!).

For a man making noise - @Kuusniemi - this will be very useful; although I did not hear mention of the ability to set and refine loop points within the advanced editor.


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## Bee_Abney (May 19, 2022)

Thanks to @Markrs for posting the new Soundpaint video over yonder: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/soundpaint-with-custom-samples.124951/post-5108620


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## StefanoM (May 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Troels has stated in a reply to to a YouTube comment from @umanoid that import of 44.1kHz is coming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm really excited How SP Will grow up!

I hope that in the future, will be a nice new platfrom ( in combination of Kontakt of course ) for all developers and sound designer like me.

I could be create great things with the SP Engine and the future improvments.


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## Kuusniemi (May 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Troels has stated in a reply to to a YouTube comment from @umanoid that import of 44.1kHz is coming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am eagerly waiting for that version of the importer. Soundpaint is a very interesting platform for a developer and hopefully I can use it as one my development platforms in the future. As the importer now is, it's a whole lot of work to make something more sophisticated and advanced than just basic instruments.


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## Kuusniemi (May 20, 2022)

StefanoM said:


> I'm really exited How SP Will grow up!
> 
> I hope that in the future, will be a nice new platfrom ( in combination of Kontakt of course ) for all developers and sound designer like me.
> 
> I could be greate great things with the SP Engine.


I agree fully. Interesting times to be a developer.


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## mussnig (May 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Troels has stated in a reply to to a YouTube comment from @umanoid that import of 44.1kHz is coming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would be curious to see if an advanced Soundpaint editor could allow to "fix" patches from other libs that have unpleasant velocity bumps (i.e. by resampling the patch and importing it to Soundpaint). E.g. Brass shorts from certain libs can sometimes give me headaches since the timbre changes too abruptly ...


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## mussnig (May 20, 2022)

Kuusniemi said:


> I am eagerly waiting for that version of the importer. Soundpaint is a very interesting platform for a developer and hopefully I can use it as one my development platforms in the future. As the importer now is, it's a whole lot of work to make something more sophisticated and advanced than just basic instruments.


If you seriously want to develop instruments for Soundpaint, then I guess you can contact them to get access to more advanced features (but probably the GUI isn't too user friendly yet).








Wanna become a Soundpaint Developer?


Soundpaint™ is advanced artistic expression in your computer. Designed by artists and for artists. There are no VC investors here. Soundpaint is entirely a community-sponsored platform. We take pride in our independence and being able to develop creative tools designed around everyday workflow...




soundpaint.com


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## Bee_Abney (May 20, 2022)

mussnig said:


> I would be curious to see if an advanced Soundpaint editor could allow to "fix" patches from other libs that have unpleasant velocity bumps (i.e. by resampling the patch and importing it to Soundpaint). E.g. Brass shorts from certain libs can sometimes give me headaches since the timbre changes too abruptly ...


Yes, I'm certainly hoping for that. I expect it won't be easy.


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## Bee_Abney (May 20, 2022)

mussnig said:


> If you seriously want to develop instruments for Soundpaint, then I guess you can contact them to get access to more advanced features (but probably the GUI isn't too user friendly yet).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that many developers, especially smaller ones and those focused on sound design rather than scripted sample libraries, will want the freedom to develop as they wish, without needing to apply to Troels and company for permission and enablement.


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## Kuusniemi (May 20, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I think that many developers, especially smaller ones and those focused on sound design rather than scripted sample libraries, will want the freedom to develop as they wish, without needing to apply to Troels and company for permission and enablement.


This is my thoughts as well. I do not want to have to apply for a position on the team, I wish to do the things I want to do the way I want to do them.

And it will be vital for Soundpaint as a platform in the future to have an active 3rd party game. If it is only for official libraries it will suffer.


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## Maarten (Jul 18, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Troels has stated in a reply to to a YouTube comment from @umanoid that import of 44.1kHz is coming.



In the latest SoundPaint-mail there was an image with the line: "We support all major audio file formats and bit depths (at 44.1 and 48k)"

Huh, did I miss an update? So a fresh install of the latest Soundpaint, but I'm sad to say: no support for 44.1kHz.

I don't mind to wait, but I don't want false promises in my mailbox. 
Or... it's very near and the sales-department already put the news in the newsletter. Yeah?


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 18, 2022)

Maarten said:


> In the latest SoundPaint-mail there was an image with the line: "We support all major audio file formats and bit depths (at 44.1 and 48k)"
> 
> Huh, did I miss an update? So a fresh install of the latest Soundpaint, but I'm sad to say: no support for 44.1kHz.
> 
> ...


Probably something like the latter. The copy was written up based on the plan, but released before the plan was enacted. Hopefully it comes soon.


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## Lee Blaske (Jul 18, 2022)

Maarten said:


> In the latest SoundPaint-mail there was an image with the line: "We support all major audio file formats and bit depths (at 44.1 and 48k)"
> 
> Huh, did I miss an update? So a fresh install of the latest Soundpaint, but I'm sad to say: no support for 44.1kHz.
> 
> ...


Is this holding you back? It's pretty simple to up-sample from 44.1k to 48k (and that's what might be happening internally in SP when they finally add that feature). Now that we're in a post-CD era, I'd kind of like to see 44.1k go away. There's no point to it, anymore. The ONLY reason we ever had it was that Sony Records wanted to fit the entire Beethoven 9th Symphony on a single CD, and that wouldn't work at 48k.


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## SupremeFist (Jul 18, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> The ONLY reason we ever had it was that Sony Records wanted to fit the entire Beethoven 9th Symphony on a single CD, and that wouldn't work at 48k.


Couldn't they have just played it faster?


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 18, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> Is this holding you back? It's pretty simple to up-sample from 44.1k to 48k (and that's what might be happening internally in SP when they finally add that feature). Now that we're in a post-CD era, I'd kind of like to see 44.1k go away. There's no point to it, anymore. The ONLY reason we ever had it was that Sony Records wanted to fit the entire Beethoven 9th Symphony on a single CD, and that wouldn't work at 48k.


Unfortunately, and to my surprise, quite a few people are still rather attached to 44.1 kHz! And to avoiding any extra steps - even using free software. The latter part I get, though, since each little process adds up over the course of multiple iterations.

There are still a lot of commercial sample libraries from the CD days that are very much worth using. And some developers are still using 44.1 kHz today, though I'm not sure why.


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## Maarten (Jul 18, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> Is this holding you back? It's pretty simple to up-sample from 44.1k to 48k (and that's what might be happening internally in SP when they finally add that feature). Now that we're in a post-CD era, I'd kind of like to see 44.1k go away. There's no point to it, anymore. The ONLY reason we ever had it was that Sony Records wanted to fit the entire Beethoven 9th Symphony on a single CD, and that wouldn't work at 48k.


I know it's simple to convert my own 'boomer' 44.1k samples. (ffmpeg or XLD for a GUI) but it would be convenient to integrate it in SoundPaint Editor. And I don't like false advertising, but probably that was a mistake.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 18, 2022)

Maarten said:


> I know it's simple to convert my own 'boomer' 44.1k samples. (ffmpeg or XLD for a GUI) but it would be convenient to integrate it in SoundPaint Editor. And I don't like false advertising, but probably it's a mistake.


I just hope they don't mistakenly release any copy mentioning legato functionality ahead of time. There'll be a riot!


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## c0nsilience (Jul 18, 2022)

Most of my samples are in 44.1k and every other sampler/granular instrument I have accepts them with no problem and no extra steps. +1 on the convenience side. That being said, I haven't opened Soundpaint much recently, due in large part to Novum, Omnisphere, and Cube.


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## Maarten (Jul 18, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Unfortunately, and to my surprise, quite a few people are still rather attached to 44.1 kHz! And to avoiding any extra steps - even using free software. The latter part I get, though, since each little process adds up over the course of multiple iterations.
> 
> There are still a lot of commercial sample libraries from the CD days that are very much worth using. And some developers are still using 44.1 kHz today, though I'm not sure why.


I have old projects and samples in 44.1 and 48 kHz , just throwing a fragment in SP to test if it works, is tiresome if you get the dreadful box. But it wil eventually be resolved I guess. And maybe it's already solved in the secret version 1.1  (but that has Calling Home problems it seems)


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## c0nsilience (Jul 18, 2022)

They'll get it there. It's a small team behind it and they have to divide their time between Soundpaint and 8Dio.


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## Mistro (Jul 18, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> Now that we're in a post-CD era, I'd kind of like to see 44.1k go away. There's no point to it, anymore. The ONLY reason we ever had it was that Sony Records wanted to fit the entire Beethoven 9th Symphony on a single CD, and that wouldn't work at 48k.


Hey now...I still like to burn CDs and listen to them in my car etc. Don't give the industry more reason to give us less options. I'm already dealing with Microsoft disappearing my DVD drive through one of their updates.


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## Lee Blaske (Jul 18, 2022)

Mistro said:


> Hey now...I still like to burn CDs and listen to them in my car etc. Don't give the industry more reason to give us less options. I'm already dealing with Microsoft disappearing my DVD drive through one of their updates.


CD players in cars went the same way as cassette players and 8-tracks.


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## Mistro (Jul 18, 2022)

Lee Blaske said:


> CD players in cars went the same way as cassette players and 8-tracks.


Mine still works in my 2005 Cadillac. I'm not changing the audio system and I'm driving it until the wheels fall off.


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## DANIELE (Aug 23, 2022)

Hi all, finally I have a little bit of time to play with Soundpaint. I bought Palindrome and I'm playing with. I was trying to put a velocity automation on the attack but I noticed that only the level 127 is working for that specific instrument.
It's ok for the piano or the Taikos for example.

Shouldn't I be able to decide how the velocity behave like in every other synth? I know that those are samples but it would be useful to use the velocity for volume, filters, adsr and so on...

Am I doing something wrong?

Thank you.

EDIT

I figured it out, I had to select the velocity type in the Touch part under the rack.


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## Bee_Abney (Aug 23, 2022)

DANIELE said:


> Hi all, finally I have a little bit of time to play with Soundpaint. I bought Palindrome and I'm playing with. I was trying to put a velocity automation on the attack but I noticed that only the level 127 is working for that specific instrument.
> It's ok for the piano or the Taikos for example.
> 
> Shouldn't I be able to decide how the velocity behave like in every other synth? I know that those are samples but it would be useful to use the velocity for volume, filters, adsr and so on...
> ...


Well done! I was just about to suggest that. I'm glad that sorted things out for you. Because you asked that question, it made me realise that I need to check the velocity type on Palindrome Programs, so thanks!


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## DANIELE (Aug 23, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Well done! I was just about to suggest that. I'm glad that sorted things out for you. Because you asked that question, it made me realise that I need to check the velocity type on Palindrome Programs, so thanks!


Yeah, for some reason I missed that option.

Happy that my sorting that out sorted things out for you too.


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## DANIELE (Aug 24, 2022)

I think that Soundpaint should incorporate a granular synthesizer, with al this samples based synthesis it would be a nice addition. You import your own samples, you work on them with a granular synthesizer and then you morph them. A must have!!!


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## filipjonathan (Oct 9, 2022)

Guys, this might have been answered before, but how come 1901 vintage upright is $198 for Kontakt but only $40 for Soundpaint? Doesn't make sense, especially since the Soundpaint version is "better" because of 127 velocity layers. 🤔


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## rrichard63 (Oct 9, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> Guys, this might have been answered before, but how come 1901 vintage upright is $198 for Kontakt but only $40 for Soundpaint? Doesn't make sense, especially since the Soundpaint version is "better" because of 127 velocity layers. 🤔


They are promising that Soundpaint libraries will never go on sale. The Kontakt versions will frequently be on sale, sometimes for even less than the Soundpaint versions.


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## davidson (Oct 10, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> Guys, this might have been answered before, but how come 1901 vintage upright is $198 for Kontakt but only $40 for Soundpaint? Doesn't make sense, especially since the Soundpaint version is "better" because of 127 velocity layers. 🤔


You only get a single mic option with soundpaint. There may be other things missing bit I'm not sure.


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## filipjonathan (Oct 10, 2022)

davidson said:


> You only get a single mic option with soundpaint. There may be other things missing bit I'm not sure.


Oh I see.


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## Markrs (Oct 10, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> Oh I see.


In my view Soundpaint is designed to be more striped back and less complicated than Kontakt, so you don't get things like multiple mics. 

This approach does work well, but I would also love to see the unlimited layers USP and spectral morphing in something with the power of Kontakt. I'm hoping that Soundpaint will to progress into something more like that whilst keeping its DNA for ease of use simplicity.


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## Troels Folmann (Oct 10, 2022)

Markrs said:


> In my view Soundpaint is designed to be more striped back and less complicated than Kontakt, so you don't get things like multiple mics.
> 
> This approach does work well, but I would also love to see the unlimited layers USP and spectral morphing in something with the power of Kontakt. I'm hoping that Soundpaint will to progress into something more like that whilst keeping its DNA for ease of use simplicity.


So Soundpaint does offer multiple microphones (ex. our free 1928 piano). One of the beautiful aspects about Soundpaint is you can morph microphone positions (try it on the 1928) and all our orchestral products will have multiple microphones too. We just don't need as many anymore, since SP offers the ability to generate new microphone positions from existing ones. Gimme a Close, Decca and Wide/Far - and I am fine.

Kontakt will never be Soundpaint. The architecture behind it Kontakt was established over 20 years ago and that is both the beauty and obstruction of Kontakt. We are close to releasing our first true polyphonic legato products in Soundpaint - and it is just a whole different experience. Forget about the bumps and artifacts of cross-fading and phasing. But rather enjoy morph shading through 127 velocity layers on your modwheel with real-time phase alignment. Add to that no loads times and a whole different type of polyphonic legato than would ever be possible in good old Kontakt.


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 10, 2022)

Troels Folmann said:


> So Soundpaint does offer multiple microphones (ex. our free 1928 piano). One of the beautiful aspects about Soundpaint is you can morph microphone positions (try it on the 1928) and all our orchestral products will have multiple microphones too. We just don't need as many anymore, since SP offers the ability to generate new microphone positions from existing ones. Gimme a Close, Decca and Wide/Far - and I am fine.
> 
> Kontakt will never be Soundpaint. The architecture behind it Kontakt was established over 20 years ago and that is both the beauty and obstruction of Kontakt. We are close to releasing our first true polyphonic legato products in Soundpaint - and it is just a whole different experience. Forget about the bumps and artifacts of cross-fading and phasing. But rather enjoy morph shading through 127 velocity layers on your modwheel with real-time phase alignment. Add to that no loads times and a whole different type of polyphonic legato than would ever be possible in good old Kontakt.


You are about to make a lot of people very happy!!


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## Markrs (Oct 10, 2022)

Troels Folmann said:


> So Soundpaint does offer multiple microphones (ex. our free 1928 piano). One of the beautiful aspects about Soundpaint is you can morph microphone positions (try it on the 1928) and all our orchestral products will have multiple microphones too. We just don't need as many anymore, since SP offers the ability to generate new microphone positions from existing ones. Gimme a Close, Decca and Wide/Far - and I am fine.
> 
> Kontakt will never be Soundpaint. The architecture behind it Kontakt was established over 20 years ago and that is both the beauty and obstruction of Kontakt. We are close to releasing our first true polyphonic legato products in Soundpaint - and it is just a whole different experience. Forget about the bumps and artifacts of cross-fading and phasing. But rather enjoy morph shading through 127 velocity layers on your modwheel with real-time phase alignment. Add to that no loads times and a whole different type of polyphonic legato than would ever be possible in good old Kontakt.


I hope I didn't come across as negative towards Soundpaint as I genuinely think it is amazing, but I also really appreciate the simplicity of the form and function of it.

Really looking forward to the enhancements and the orchestral libraries being added to it.


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## Robert_G (Oct 10, 2022)

Troels Folmann said:


> We are close to releasing our first true polyphonic legato products in Soundpaint - and it is just a whole different experience. Forget about the bumps and artifacts of cross-fading and phasing. But rather enjoy morph shading through 127 velocity layers on your modwheel with real-time phase alignment. Add to that no loads times and a whole different type of polyphonic legato than would ever be possible in good old Kontakt.


So my question is will this sort of thing be limited to Hybrid/Synth, or will you be able to do true unprocessed orchestral instruments with this technology as well?


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## rrichard63 (Oct 10, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> will you be able to do true unprocessed orchestral instruments with this technology as well?


8Dio/Soundpaint have been tiptoeing around questions like this one since Soundpaint was first announced. I suspect that giving direct answers to such questions would say more than they want to about their proprietary technology.

My own opinion is that, once you put an unprocessed acoustic instrument in Soundpaint, it is no longer "unprocessed".


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 10, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> 8Dio/Soundpaint have been tiptoeing around questions like this one since Soundpaint was first announced. I suspect that giving direct answers to such questions would say more than they want to about their proprietary technology.
> 
> My own opinion is that, once you put an unprocessed acoustic instrument in Soundpaint, it is no longer "unprocessed".


They have vocal phrase libraries, pianos, and acoustic string instruments, and the pianos and strings have the velocity layers and round robins. They just don't have legato yet. I've put in my own samples and they sound the same in Soundpaint as out of it.


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## rrichard63 (Oct 10, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> ... the pianos and strings have the velocity layers ...


Granted, when the original recordings include velocity layers and round robins, Soundpaint doesn't necessarily throw them away. (It appears that mic positions are sometimes a different matter.) But, unless I'm mistaken, "127 velocity layers" does not mean 127 separately recorded samples. That said, I don't believe that anyone outside 8Dio/Soundpaint knows exactly what it does mean.


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## Markrs (Oct 10, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Granted, when the original recordings include velocity layers and round robins, Soundpaint doesn't necessarily throw them away. (It appears that mic positions are sometimes a different matter.) But, unless I'm mistaken, "127 velocity layers" does not mean 127 separately recorded samples. That said, I don't believe that anyone outside 8Dio/Soundpaint knows exactly what it does mean.


It is a form of spectral morphing between the sample layers. What this means is that if you have 3 layers it will spectral morph between each layer with 127 layers off that morphing. This also means it every creates round robins as each time you press the same key you are likely to get a different morph layer as the velocity will always be slightly different.


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 10, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Granted, when the original recordings include velocity layers and round robins, Soundpaint doesn't necessarily throw them away. (It appears that mic positions are sometimes a different matter.) But, unless I'm mistaken, "127 velocity layers" does not mean 127 separately recorded samples. That said, I don't believe that anyone outside 8Dio/Soundpaint knows exactly what it does mean.



They have been explicit that it is not about recording 127 velocity layers, and they also refer to it as infinite - it is only limited by the number of midi channels.

Both velocity layers and round robins are probably made with the morphing technology. That was at the centre of their initial marketing. Just as you can create infinite 'velocity layers' by volume fading between two samples at different velocities, this would be a matter of creating (as they say, in real time) velocity layers and round robins by morphing between two others.

But I don't know that, of course! Nor do I have any idea how they get it to sound so very good. I do know that it appears to require pretty deep sampling to get enough samples to make it work well. It does not sound unnatural/synthetic though.


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## Technostica (Oct 10, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> Granted, when the original recordings include velocity layers and round robins, Soundpaint doesn't necessarily throw them away. (It appears that mic positions are sometimes a different matter.) But, unless I'm mistaken, "127 velocity layers" does not mean 127 separately recorded samples. That said, I don't believe that anyone outside 8Dio/Soundpaint knows exactly what it does mean.


But this goes to 127!


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 10, 2022)

Technostica said:


> But this goes to 127!


But why don't you just make layer ten more velocious?


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## Robert_G (Oct 10, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> 8Dio/Soundpaint have been tiptoeing around questions like this one since Soundpaint was first announced. I suspect that giving direct answers to such questions would say more than they want to about their proprietary technology.
> 
> My own opinion is that, once you put an unprocessed acoustic instrument in Soundpaint, it is no longer "unprocessed".


I agree with this. I've seen others ask the same question in slightly different words. Trying to get a straight answer is like pulling teeth.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Oct 10, 2022)

Robert_G said:


> I agree with this. I've seen others ask the same question in slightly different words. Trying to get a straight answer is like pulling teeth.


I feel like this has been explained to death and doesn't require anymore explaining honestly. I mean unless you want the source code.


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## parapentep70 (Oct 10, 2022)

Troels Folmann said:


> .........
> Kontakt will never be Soundpaint. The architecture behind it Kontakt was established over 20 years ago and that is both the beauty and obstruction of Kontakt. We are close to releasing our first true polyphonic legato products in Soundpaint - and it is just a whole different experience. Forget about the bumps and artifacts of cross-fading and phasing. But rather enjoy morph shading through 127 velocity layers on your modwheel with real-time phase alignment. Add to that no loads times and a whole different type of polyphonic legato than would ever be possible in good old Kontakt.


Well, err... The fact that Kontakt architecture started 20 years ago does not prevent that some day it will possibly offer spectral morphing. Or other features. The same as Soundpaint some day will hopefully include poly legato. And other features. TODAY each platform has advantages and disadvantages.

Please do not take me wrong, I am an 8Dio customer enjoying libraries in both formats. There are many examples of libraries that TODAY would not work properly in the wrong format


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## Robert_G (Oct 10, 2022)

Jeremy Morgan said:


> I feel like this has been explained to death and doesn't require anymore explaining honestly. I mean unless you want the source code.


Sorry, but I haven't heard a 'yes' or 'no' answer. If you have one....please share. Either SP can do it or it can't.


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## mussnig (Oct 10, 2022)

parapentep70 said:


> Well, err... The fact that Kontakt architecture started 20 years ago does not prevent that some day it will possibly offer spectral morphing. Or other features. The same as Soundpaint some day will hopefully include poly legato. And other features. TODAY each platform has advantages and disadvantages.
> 
> Please do not take me wrong, I am an 8Dio customer enjoying libraries in both formats. There are many examples of libraries that TODAY would not work properly in the wrong format


One big thing though is that Soundpaint uses its own file format which supposedly place a huge role that the morphing is possible with a minimal CPU hit (and also allowing you to do all that morphing in real-time without rendering first). Sure, Kontakt could do something similar or maybe in 5-10 years it's not needed anymore with modern CPUs.
Also, afaik spectral morphing can result in unpleasant artifacts but Soundpaint manages to make the results still sound good in a musical way. And apparently it took them quite some time to get these things right (I can imagine it was not an easy task).

So I would think that NI isn't going to catch up so soon (that is if they are even looking into this) - also, whatever they do with Kontakt, they need to make sure that all the old stuff is still working which apparently creates a lot of headaches.


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## parapentep70 (Oct 11, 2022)

mussnig said:


> One big thing though is that Soundpaint uses its own file format which supposedly place a huge role that the morphing is possible with a minimal CPU hit (and also allowing you to do all that morphing in real-time without rendering first). Sure, Kontakt could do something similar or maybe in 5-10 years it's not needed anymore with modern CPUs.
> Also, afaik spectral morphing can result in unpleasant artifacts but Soundpaint manages to make the results still sound good in a musical way. And apparently it took them quite some time to get these things right (I can imagine it was not an easy task).
> 
> So I would think that NI isn't going to catch up so soon (that is if they are even looking into this) - also, whatever they do with Kontakt, they need to make sure that all the old stuff is still working which apparently creates a lot of headaches.


Perhaps.... possibly. 

But Soundpaint claims that users will be able to use their own samples (again some day). Will then be possible for Soundpaint to run spectral morphing without artifacts on these ("normal") samples? I guess the assumption is yes. And then the same will take 5 or 10 years to Kontakt? To me one or the other, but not both.

Again, at present there are advantages and disadvantages to run existing sample (or hybrid) libraries. In the future? time will tell.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Oct 11, 2022)

parapentep70 said:


> Perhaps.... possibly.
> 
> But Soundpaint claims that users will be able to use their own samples (again some day). Will then be possible for Soundpaint to run spectral morphing without artifacts on these ("normal") samples? I guess the assumption is yes. And then the same will take 5 or 10 years to Kontakt? To me one or the other, but not both.
> 
> Again, at present there are advantages and disadvantages to run existing sample (or hybrid) libraries. In the future? time will tell.


You can already import your own samples in Soundpaint, using the sample mapper. It converts your samples into Soundpaint's own format. The morphing does work.

What we don't have yet, but could do by the of the year, is the ability to create our own Parts with round robins and velocity layers. The stated plan has been to make such a facility available, thus enabling third-party Soundpaint libraries.

We don't yet know how this will work in practice.


----------



## zzz00m (Oct 11, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> You can already import your own samples in Soundpaint, using the sample mapper. It converts your samples into Soundpaint's own format.


In a sense this user sample import works a bit like Bioscape, as you can layer your single samples (not multi-sampled) with the existing parts and take advantage of features in the synth engine.


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## Bee_Abney (Oct 11, 2022)

zzz00m said:


> In a sense this user sample import works a bit like Bioscape, as you can layer your single samples (not multi-sampled) with the existing parts and take advantage of features in the synth engine.


Yes, although you create a whole part with up to, I think, eighty-eight samples - one per key. You have one-note stretch and so on as options. But that's the basic idea.

There is timestretching available in the sense that you can speed up or slow down a sample; but in the not too distant future we should get timestretching of the kind that retunes a samples across the keyboard whilst keeping the length/speed the same.


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## zzz00m (Oct 11, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Yes, although you create a whole part with up to, I think, eighty-eight samples - one per key. You have one-note stretch and so on as options. But that's the basic idea.


Agreed. I used the term multi-sampled incorrectly in the sense of that including velocity layers, round robins, etc. Having a single sample per key would technically still be multi-sampled, but not "deep sampled".


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 15, 2022)

All hail HAL!

Soundpaint 2.0 is on it's way. As well as legato and poly legato, the user sample import will now accept samples of any bit or sample rate.


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## Akoustecx (Nov 15, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> All hail HAL!
> 
> Soundpaint 2.0 is on it's way. As well as legato and poly legato, the user sample import will now accept samples of any bit or sample rate.



Open the Paintbay doors, HAL.
I'm sorry Troels, I can't do that!


----------



## Bee_Abney (Nov 15, 2022)

Akoustecx said:


> Open the Paintbay doors, HAL.
> I'm sorry Troels, I can't do that!


And on a scale of 1 to Game Over, Man, how worried should we be if Zebra3 gets renamed to Skynet?


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## Akoustecx (Nov 15, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> And on a scale of 1 to Game Over, Man, how worried should we be if Zebra3 gets renamed to Skynet?


The Zebnet system goes online August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic synthesis. Zebnet begins to design patches at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plugin.


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## AudioXpression (Nov 15, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> I did ask about that, like how is that possible if some layers weren't even recorded. Troels replied that "creating what's not recorded is not possible...yet." So that just proves that Soundpaint plays with the volume of the velocity layers in order to blend them. At least that's what I think.


Good question!
The answer was just the expected, yet...


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## MegaPixel (Nov 15, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> And on a scale of 1 to Game Over, Man, how worried should we be if Zebra3 gets renamed to Skynet?



Don't worry we have a piece of software that is so old, so cumbersome, so legacy, so archaic, so difficult to expand on that it will crash skynet as soon as it tries to take over it's functions or touch any system that it's installed on, "kontakt". Native Instruments at it's best.


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## Scottyb (Nov 15, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> All hail HAL!
> 
> Soundpaint 2.0 is on it's way. As well as legato and poly legato, the user sample import will now accept samples of any bit or sample rate.



I'm intrigued. Always appreciate anyone trying to move the bar.


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## Colin66 (Nov 16, 2022)

H.A.L - lelujah!


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2022)

Does HAL work with any SP instrument or is it only for special ones?


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 16, 2022)

Pier said:


> Does HAL work with any SP instrument or is it only for special ones?


I've been assuming that it will only work for instruments where legatos have been sampled. That is, that it is a variation on true legato rather than scripted. But I realise now that I don't know that for sure and, because I was assuming it, I didn't listen out for any hints that it might be otherwise.

Who knows? Maybe without sampled legatos it can create a legato sound by morphing between samples somehow. But I don't see that working as standard sample morphing. It could produce a sort of glide. But that synth-style glide is already available in Soundpaint 1.


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I've been assuming that it will only work for instruments where legatos have been sampled. That is, that it is a variation on true legato rather than scripted. But I realise now that I don't know that for sure and, because I was assuming it, I didn't listen out for any hints that it might be otherwise.
> 
> Who knows? Maybe without sampled legatos it can create a legato sound by morphing between samples somehow. But I don't see that working as standard sample morphing. It could produce a sort of glide. But that synth-style glide is already available in Soundpaint 1.


I didn't watch the whole video but it seemed like it was all automatic morphing... Or something.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Nov 16, 2022)

Pier said:


> I didn't watch the whole video but it seemed like it was all automatic morphing... Or something.


I can only remember him talking about the morphing in relation to velocity layers. He introduced the terminology of morph shading between velocity layers.

It is because of the ways that the legatos seem to be alterable that it sounds like morphing is directly involved. And that's what I'd expect of Soundpaint, anyway. But I think you'd need samples of the legatos to use morphing to as part of what sounds like very good legato.

I think I jumbled my words a bit before; but I think that while you could morph from one note to another note, I think that would sound more like glide than like the legato we are hearing in the videos.

Having said that, even if I'm right, the legato engine could be available for all instruments even if it only sounds really good with sampled legatos.


----------



## Colin66 (Nov 16, 2022)

Pier said:


> Does HAL work with any SP instrument or is it only for special ones?


I might be completely wrong but I think it works with any of the SP instruments. From what I understand it is about how samples are processed, rather than the samples themselves, so I took from that that if you process the samples in this new way then you'll get H.A.L. As I said though, I could be talking complete baloney!


----------



## robgb (Nov 16, 2022)

Sound Paint 2 sounds pretty amazing. I'm thinking this is the only new non-Kontakt player that I can get behind. The over-hyped term "game changer" may actually be true in this case.


----------



## Technostica (Nov 16, 2022)

"1999 Soprano Saxophone Moonlight w/ *H.A.L Technology*" might mean that only libraries encoded in a certain way will have that technology and tag!
I haven't watched it all, but if every library had access to this feature, it would be something worth pointing out.

Troels got a bit distracted and called the sax a brass instrument.
Now if this library can morph from a reed to a brass instrument, that would be something.
Maybe version 3.


----------



## wcreed51 (Nov 16, 2022)

Any word on when it will be released?


----------



## moon (Nov 16, 2022)

Technostica said:


> "1999 Soprano Saxophone Moonlight w/ *H.A.L Technology*" might mean that only libraries encoded in a certain way will have that technology and tag!
> I haven't watched it all, but if every library had access to this feature, it would be something worth pointing out.
> 
> Troels got a bit distracted and called the sax a brass instrument.
> ...


Troels/8dio/Soundpaint consistently refer to the sax as a brass instrument. They just don’t know the difference.


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## Colin66 (Nov 16, 2022)

wcreed51 said:


> Any word on when it will be released?


Tomorrow is release date for H.A.L and the Saxophone.


----------



## curtisschweitzer (Nov 16, 2022)

8Dio has been doing some real cool stuff with Soundpaint-- the sort of innovations you see oft bemoaned as no longer occurring in the sample space on VIC. This is looking to be pretty promising, and ready to go tomorrow! That shows a lot of confidence to me-- this isn't some far off promise, its a technology and a library available right away. 

Kudos to them and what they are doing with this tech.


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## Colin66 (Nov 16, 2022)

curtisschweitzer said:


> 8Dio has been doing some real cool stuff with Soundpaint-- the sort of innovations you see oft bemoaned as no longer occurring in the sample space on VIC. This is looking to be pretty promising, and ready to go tomorrow! That shows a lot of confidence to me-- this isn't some far off promise, its a technology and a library available right away.
> 
> Kudos to them and what they are doing with this tech.


I agree. It takes a lot of guts to try something like this, not to mention money too. Definitely deserve the kudos for trying to push boundaries and even more for succeeding. Looking forward to trying this along with the instruments that will come out in the future.


----------



## ism (Nov 16, 2022)

Hmm, "Realtime phase alignment" ... would be amazing if it works as well as advertised.

But there's a *lot* of completely meaningless marketing happy talking in that video. 

So we'll see.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Nov 16, 2022)

ism said:


> Hmm, "Realtime phase alignment" ... would be amazing if it works as well as advertised.
> 
> But there's a *lot* of completely meaningly marketing happy talking in that video.
> 
> So we'll see.


That is a common feature of Troels' videos. He's more of an ideas man than a scientist and speaks a lot in metaphors. But, as you say, the proof will be in the product!


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## Technostica (Nov 16, 2022)

ism said:


> Hmm, "Realtime phase alignment" ... would be amazing if it works as well as advertised.
> 
> But there's a *lot* of completely meaningly marketing happy talking in that video.
> 
> So we'll see.


I like Troels but he could do with a producer for his videos.
The bit where he talks about there being no load times, while on screen shows the loading is funny.
Then he calls a saxophone a brass instrument.
At times it all comes across as a bit, “this legato goes to 11”.
Whilst I find him quite endearing, when you are promoting a very technical product, basic errors like this don’t help your credibility, especially with people that don’t know your background.

Curious to see how this evolves and how good sales have been.
They have had a busy year.
Impressed me overall.


----------



## Scottyb (Nov 16, 2022)

Technostica said:


> I like Troels but he could do with a producer for his videos.
> The bit where he talks about there being no load times, while on screen shows the loading is funny.
> Then he calls a saxophone a brass instrument.
> At times it all comes across as a bit, “this legato goes to 11”.
> ...


He seems to be pretty passionate about all of it and I think that probably finds its way into his walkthroughs. I honestly feel like that's what it is more than anything.

And darn that sax sounds GOOD!


----------



## SupremeFist (Nov 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Having said that, even if I'm right, the legato engine could be available for all instruments even if it only sounds really good with sampled legatos.


What if the developer actually told us?


----------



## Bee_Abney (Nov 16, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> What if the developer actually told us?


Then someone kind might point to the quote...


----------



## SupremeFist (Nov 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Then someone kind might point to the quote...


I meant "what if" as in "wouldn't it be good if"...


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 16, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> I meant "what if" as in "wouldn't it be good if"...


I'm sorry! I was struggling to make sense of what you wrote! I'm dimwitted with fatigue. Time for an early night!


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## Technostica (Nov 16, 2022)

Scottyb said:


> He seems to be pretty passionate about all of it and I think that probably finds its way into his walkthroughs. I honestly feel like that's what it is more than anything.
> 
> And darn that sax sounds GOOD!


Of course and it can be infectious at times.
But overall, I am glad that others are doing most of the walkthroughs.
I don’t generally like too much talking and especially where there is a lot of hype. 
Let the sound do most of the talking I say.


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## zzz00m (Nov 16, 2022)

Technostica said:


> Troels got a bit distracted and called the sax a brass instrument.


That's probably a carryover from the context of when a sax is used in the horn lineup of a rock band alongside the trumpet and trombone, where the sax is the only woodwind, but is made of brass. It is considered one of the "horns". Even the NI "Session Horns" includes a sax.

I know someone who plays sax in a rock band and we had this discussion a while back. Although of course a sax is technically a woodwind because of the single reed.


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## zzz00m (Nov 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Then someone kind might point to the quote...


This blog post is all that I could find, and it doesn't seem to answer the question directly. We'll probably find out tomorrow...









What is new in Soundpaint 2.0


Soundpaint™ 2.0 marks the biggest leap we ever made in terms of advancing sample technology and realism. Including our new H.A.L (Hyper Acoustic Legato) Technology, which offers the ability to play true polyphonic legato with ease.Soundpaint 2.0 now supports all major formats, including...




soundpaint.com





But there is one small clue: _"The Legato Rack offers you all the necessary controls over your H.A.L powered instruments"_


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 16, 2022)

zzz00m said:


> This blog post is all that I could find, and it doesn't seem to answer the question directly. We'll probably find out tomorrow...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's pretty persuasive. But, just one more sleep until Soundpaint 2.0! If I stay up, do you think I could see the trolls delivering the bits and bytes?


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## Scottyb (Nov 16, 2022)

I'll (of course) be up after midnight seeing if it's there! :-P


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## kgdrum (Nov 16, 2022)

moon said:


> Troels/8dio/Soundpaint consistently refer to the sax as a brass instrument. They just don’t know the difference.


Thankfully Troells presumably hasn’t seen Ornette playing his plastic saxophone!


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## JimDiGritz (Nov 16, 2022)

Maybe I'm in the first class carriage of the hype train but this new approach has genuinely made me pause on some BF deals like Audio Imperia Solo and dare I say it even taking the plunge into the critically acclaimed Aaron Venture series....

This sax sounds amazing, if 8dio can release some if their strings and other solo instruments soon on SP with HAL I think I'll be investing in more Soundpaint libraries. Also I appreciate the no deals approach to their pricing. Random sales and FOMO driven deep discounts just piss me off...


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## Technostica (Nov 16, 2022)

zzz00m said:


> That's probably a carryover from the context of when a sax is used in the horn lineup of a rock band alongside the trumpet and trombone, where the sax is the only woodwind, but is made of brass. It is considered one of the "horns". Even the NI "Session Horns" includes a sax.


Maybe, but it doesn't matter either way as it's not important and it was petty of me to bring it up.
Sorry everybody for the negativity, having a bad day.

The whole horn section thing in rock and soul bands can be confusing.
The word horn for me is about the end where the sound emerges from, rather than the source of the sound.
So as I don't think in terms of the mouthpiece, I don't distinguish between brass and reeds in this context.
It's not that unusual for a lay person to think of a sax as a brass instrument I suspect.


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## Technostica (Nov 16, 2022)

kgdrum said:


> Thankfully Troells presumably hasn’t seen Ornette playing his plastic saxophone!


I dimly recall Ornette playing a violin when I heard him in concert and judging by the tone, you could argue that it sounded more like a brass instrument than strings!


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## Scottyb (Nov 16, 2022)

Technostica said:


> Maybe, but it doesn't matter either way as it's not important and it was petty of me to bring it up.
> Sorry everybody for the negativity, having a bad day.
> 
> The whole horn section thing in rock and soul bands can be confusing.
> ...


Sorry for your rough day! Hope it's all nothing too bad and it gets turned around for you!


----------



## Colin66 (Nov 16, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> Maybe I'm in the first class carriage of the hype train but this new approach has genuinely made me pause on some BF deals like Audio Imperia Solo and dare I say it even taking the plunge into the critically acclaimed Aaron Venture series....
> 
> This sax sounds amazing, if 8dio can release some if their strings and other solo instruments soon on SP with HAL I think I'll be investing in more Soundpaint libraries. Also I appreciate the no deals approach to their pricing. Random sales and FOMO driven deep discounts just piss me off...


I use Komplete Kontrol keyboard and software so load Komplete Kontrol into a track in my DAW and load a Kontakt instrument into that and I'm just so sick of having to do this each time. Some instruments stop working for no apparent reason, some load but quite slowly. I'll be so happy when I can ditch all of that and just use Soundpaint. It's just so much easier to load SP into an instrument track in my DAW and it all just works with minimal load times. Can't wait for there to be orchestral instruments - now with added H.A.L 😊 - and KK can take a back seat for most of my composing.


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## kgdrum (Nov 16, 2022)

Technostica said:


> I dimly recall Ornette playing a violin when I heard him in concert and judging by the tone, you could argue that it sounded more like a brass instrument than strings!


lol I used to play that on the stereo loud growing up and it drove my family crazy!

I love Ornette a must album imo is

Art of the Improvisers it is simply AMAZING!


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## Technostica (Nov 16, 2022)

kgdrum said:


> lol I used to play that on the stereo loud growing up and it drove my family crazy!
> I love Ornette a must album imo is
> Art of the Improvisers it is simply AMAZING!



I came to him via the mid 70s stuff such as the Artists House albums, including the Blood Ulmer one.
Ulmer surprisingly had some traction in the UK on the indie label Rough Trade, including this single:



I also recall Ornette on the Naked Lunch OST with Howard Shore.
That was an interesting film!


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## moon (Nov 16, 2022)

I think the brass/woodwind distinction for sax is important - go on the 8dio website and look in the woodwind section. The only sax in there is the soprano. The studio sax trio and the fire sax are in the brass section only.

Maybe I haven’t been around the block enough, but I’ve never heard an experienced musician refer to the sax as a brass instrument. As a horn? Absolutely. But never as brass, whether it be in jazz, pop, soul, funk, R&B, or whatever have you.


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## zzz00m (Nov 16, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> If I stay up, do you think I could see the trolls delivering the bits and bytes?


Maybe not the trolls, but certainly Troels!


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## zzz00m (Nov 16, 2022)

moon said:


> I’ve never heard an experienced musician refer to the sax as a brass instrument. As a horn? Absolutely


I believe therein lies the confusion for the lay person.


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## rMancer (Nov 16, 2022)

Horns are brass, and saxes are horns, so therefore all brass are saxes


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## kgdrum (Nov 16, 2022)

Technostica said:


> I came to him via the mid 70s stuff such as the Artists House albums, including the Blood Ulmer one.
> Ulmer surprisingly had some traction in the UK on the indie label Rough Trade, including this single:
> 
> 
> ...



I have been friends with James and Jamaladeen for 35+ years.


----------



## Technostica (Nov 16, 2022)

Troels has confirmed that the HAL libraries are a separate class but they will be updating some of the current ones.


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## Jrides (Nov 16, 2022)

Colin66 said:


> I use Komplete Kontrol keyboard and software so load Komplete Kontrol into a track in my DAW and load a Kontakt instrument into that and I'm just so sick of having to do this each time. Some instruments stop working for no apparent reason, some load but quite slowly. I'll be so happy when I can ditch all of that and just use Soundpaint. It's just so much easier to load SP into an instrument track in my DAW and it all just works with minimal load times. Can't wait for there to be orchestral instruments - now with added H.A.L 😊 - and KK can take a back seat for most of my composing.


You don’t have to do this. You don’t have to use KK at all. I don’t and I have the S61MK2. I just load kontakt directly into a track. Try it. You can do this today. problem solved.


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## Scottyb (Nov 16, 2022)

ANNNNND it's up!!!! About to try out! You have to go into your account and then it's under Engine.


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## grabauf (Nov 16, 2022)

Scottyb said:


> ANNNNND it's up!!!! About to try out! You have to go into your account and then it's under Engine.


I already checked an hour ago. And just when I have to start working, it shows up.
See you tomorrow, Soundpaint 2.0.


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## Scottyb (Nov 16, 2022)

Welp! Soundpaint 2.0 is there but that lovely sax doesn't appear to be. Bummer


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## Technostica (Nov 16, 2022)

I suspect that a new freebie with HAL support may be on the cards soon.


----------



## Akoustecx (Nov 17, 2022)

Be wary about installing V2.
Just tried it, and it completely changed the character of a patch in a tune I'm working on for my next EP. Fortunately I still have the V1 installer, from within which I could update to V1.1, which was great as my patch wouldn't open at all in V1. I did have to step back to a save that I hadn't opened with V2 installed, but that only means I've lost some minor mix tweaks.
If you've got active projects using V1.1, I'd advise caution.
It is of course possible that this is a situation that turns out to be unique to me and my system, but felt it necessary to point out, as there may be many here for whom it could cause problems.
I'm about to message SP about the possibility of making it possible to have V1.1 and V2 installed alongside each other, and I'll let you all know what the response is.
Equally, if anyone else has already tried it without problems, that would be good to know.


----------



## Colin66 (Nov 17, 2022)

Scottyb said:


> Welp! Soundpaint 2.0 is there but that lovely sax doesn't appear to be. Bummer


Relax. Breathe. Think calm thoughts. It's coming. 🤣


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## Colin66 (Nov 17, 2022)

Jrides said:


> You don’t have to do this. You don’t have to use KK at all. I don’t and I have the S61MK2. I just load kontakt directly into a track. Try it. You can do this today. problem solved.


Thanks but the problem I have since they upgraded to Kontakt 7 is that it appears with a black screen. Something to do with my laptop needing a certain feature level in DirectX. :(
I'll try to downgrade to 6 and try that!


----------



## JimDiGritz (Nov 17, 2022)

SP 2.0's Sample Import seems to be bugged - I can create a part using a .wav with any sample rate (yay!) however when I use the part in SP itself I just get a horrible white noise distorted version of the sample - sounds like a sample rate issue.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 17, 2022)

grabauf said:


> I already checked an hour ago. And just when I have to start working, it shows up.
> See you tomorrow, Soundpaint 2.0.


Alright show-off! So, you've got a 'job'! Try not to trip on your own swagger, there, sir!


----------



## stigbn (Nov 17, 2022)

on you Youtube just now Troels is also introducing a new Tenor Sax with HAL technology - should come out sametime as the soprano.


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## grabauf (Nov 17, 2022)

stigbn said:


> on you Youtube just now Troels is also introducing a new Tenor Sax with HAL technology - should come out sametime as the soprano.



including The Bee Machine ... this must be a tribute to one of our highly regarded forum members.


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## wtptrs (Nov 17, 2022)

Has this actually been released yet? I see a '*SOUNDPAINT ENGINE 2.0 "H.A.L" BETA 1*' version available for download, surely this is not the official release?


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 17, 2022)

wtptrs said:


> Has this actually been released yet? I see a '*SOUNDPAINT ENGINE 2.0 "H.A.L" BETA 1*' version available for download, surely this is not the official release?


Good point. Soundpaint 1.0 was released as a public beta; but I still see the 'Almost There' banner on the site.

Maybe they are saving the official 'It's out!' flourish for when the saxophones are released. Which should be later today.


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## Scottyb (Nov 17, 2022)

Welllll looks like you were right!


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## Colin66 (Nov 17, 2022)

Scottyb said:


> Welllll looks like you were right!


It was released earlier. Here in UK I downloaded it about 3 hours ago


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## JimDiGritz (Nov 17, 2022)

Colin66 said:


> It was released earlier. Here in UK I downloaded it about 3 hours ago


That's the Beta! Hopefully the full release is soon...


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## Colin66 (Nov 17, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> That's the Beta! Hopefully the full release is soon...


1.0 was a Beta version for ages. I don't think it makes much difference in terms of using it.


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## Colin66 (Nov 17, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Good point. Soundpaint 1.0 was released as a public beta; but I still see the 'Almost There' banner on the site.
> 
> Maybe they are saving the official 'It's out!' flourish for when the saxophones are released. Which should be later today.


I think the "Almost there" banner just got left there even when 2.0 was released.


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## Scottyb (Nov 17, 2022)

Colin66 said:


> I think the "Almost there" banner just got left there even when 2.0 was released.


Ahhh so the beta is gone? Off to check!


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## Colin66 (Nov 17, 2022)

Scottyb said:


> Ahhh so the beta is gone? Off to check!


What I was trying to say is that the banner was there referring to 2.0 beta, not 2.0 full version.


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## Bee_Abney (Nov 17, 2022)

Colin66 said:


> I think the "Almost there" banner just got left there even when 2.0 was released.


I was speculating that it will be left there until the Saxophones are released. They are HAL-enabled, so their release today could be the arrival of legato, not the release of 2.0 itself.


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## wcreed51 (Nov 17, 2022)

For those who've been able to update, did it show up inside Soundpaint, or did you have to download from the website?


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## Colin66 (Nov 17, 2022)

wcreed51 said:


> For those who've been able to update, did it show up inside Soundpaint, or did you have to download from the website?


It didn't show up as an update in Soundpaint, I had to download it from the website.


----------



## stigbn (Nov 17, 2022)

It seems that we can expect some of the 8dio Claire instruments soon (?) in Soundpaint:


----------



## Colin66 (Nov 17, 2022)

No sign of either Sax as yet.....


----------



## Bee_Abney (Nov 17, 2022)

stigbn said:


> It seems that we can expect some of the 8dio Claire instruments soon (?) in Soundpaint:



Fantastic!


----------



## Bee_Abney (Nov 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> Does HAL work with any SP instrument or is it only for special ones?


I've installed Soundpaint 2.0 and there is no sign of HAL. So, as expected, I think you need a HAL-capable library to get the option.


----------



## Soundpaint (Nov 17, 2022)

Akoustecx said:


> Be wary about installing V2.
> Just tried it, and it completely changed the character of a patch in a tune I'm working on for my next EP. Fortunately I still have the V1 installer, from within which I could update to V1.1, which was great as my patch wouldn't open at all in V1. I did have to step back to a save that I hadn't opened with V2 installed, but that only means I've lost some minor mix tweaks.
> If you've got active projects using V1.1, I'd advise caution.
> It is of course possible that this is a situation that turns out to be unique to me and my system, but felt it necessary to point out, as there may be many here for whom it could cause problems.
> ...


Looking into it. What library and Programs were you using? Thanks!


----------



## Bee_Abney (Nov 17, 2022)

JimDiGritz said:


> SP 2.0's Sample Import seems to be bugged - I can create a part using a .wav with any sample rate (yay!) however when I use the part in SP itself I just get a horrible white noise distorted version of the sample - sounds like a sample rate issue.


I'm also getting white noise from .wav files with different sample rates. I guess there must be some ironing out to do there. Hopefully it doesn't cause them too much trouble and we get it sorted out soon.


----------



## Soundpaint (Nov 17, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm also getting white noise from .wav files with different sample rates. I guess there must be some ironing out to do there. Hopefully it doesn't cause them too much trouble and we get it sorted out soon.


Thanks for the info. Looking into it as I type.


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Nov 17, 2022)

stigbn said:


> It seems that we can expect some of the 8dio Claire instruments soon (?) in Soundpaint:



Yup! Glad Troels answered my question. Less than a day after I asked too.

I still would love to hear some strings and brass in Soundpaint too. I know they at least have some alpha versions they are working on, because I've seen them listed in the left pane on some walkthroughs.


----------



## zeng (Nov 17, 2022)

It is still saying "almost there"


----------



## Bee_Abney (Nov 17, 2022)

zeng said:


> It is still saying "almost there"


We're kids at the end of a very long drive to a holiday destination. We know we are just five miles away, but mum's lost and dad is in a fight with the SatNav. And we all need the loo.

"Almost there."

Best. Holiday. Ever!


----------



## Akoustecx (Nov 17, 2022)

Soundpaint said:


> Looking into it. What library and Programs were you using? Thanks!


Just opened a conversation with you, with a rar of the program. Seems easier if you have the patch, rather than just describing it.
Let me know if you need anything else.


----------



## ism (Nov 17, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> We're kids at the end of a very long drive to a holiday destination. We know we are just five miles away, but mum's lost and dad is in a fight with the SatNav. And we all need the loo.
> 
> "Almost there."
> 
> Best. Holiday. Ever!


You always have just the right metaphor


----------



## Soundpaint (Nov 17, 2022)

zeng said:


> It is still saying "almost there"


Getting closer every minute...


----------



## Scottyb (Nov 17, 2022)

Soundpaint said:


> Getting closer every minute...


I don’t believe you 🤣 I did notice the heart went from white to red. Haha


----------



## Scottyb (Nov 17, 2022)

ok the heart is white again....but looks bigger. It's also very possible I'm just going slightly crazy waiting.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Nov 17, 2022)

Scottyb said:


> ok the heart is white again....but looks bigger. It's also very possible I'm just going slightly crazy waiting.


You're not crazy. Yet. But you are making good progress.

You'll get there!


----------



## Jeremy Morgan (Nov 17, 2022)

Scottyb said:


> ok the heart is white again....but looks bigger. It's also very possible I'm just going slightly crazy waiting.


----------



## AlbertSmithers (Nov 17, 2022)

alto flute?????

Alto Flute??????????????

ALTO FLUTE???????????????????

:D :D :D :D :D OMG THIS SOUNDS SO COOL


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## Scottyb (Nov 17, 2022)

AlbertSmithers said:


> alto flute?????
> 
> Alto Flute??????????????
> 
> ...



Well now they’re just being cruel. This sounds so freaking good! And. The heart is red again.


----------



## ism (Nov 17, 2022)

Ok, a flute has my attention. Definitely an interesting and innovative hybrid instrument.

But for more straight classical ... I'm not sure it's the same thing - or trying to be the same thing - as either the gorgeous (and hyper lyrica) Claire alto flute, or more conventionally orchestral instruments like the SSW alto flute.

Also it is just me, or does it have kind of a jazzy feel? I can definitely see this as being great for jazz. Insofar as I know anything about jazz. (Which I don't).

And I remain very curious about what this real time phase alignment can do.

I can't say I have a good sense of what kind of expressive dynamics realtime phase alignment is giving from this video. Partly because the recorded progressive vibrato arc is quite short, that mostly that's what dominates the timbral quality of mostly of what's being played.


But note that the instrument seem to still have also recorded dynamics arcs, which is longtime signature of 8dio libraries. So that's cool. 

But this also suggests that HAL's "Realtime phase alignment" maybe isn't a silver bullet for dynamics.

Looks like a fun instrument, in any event.


----------



## Scottyb (Nov 17, 2022)

Man. When you‘ve spent most of your life working meticulously to try and emulate the feel and sound of other instruments with sample and synthesized libraries/sounds, from what I’ve heard so far, the possibilities here excite the younger version of me - the one that‘s still trying to convey what I’m feeling. 

While listening and watching these videos it seems like we’re on the verge of moving our craft forward. And I haven’t felt like that in a long time. I’m genuinely excited and can’t wait to actually play any of these.


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## R10k (Nov 17, 2022)

That flute sounds amazing...


----------



## Burningbusch (Nov 17, 2022)

From Troels on Facebook: We will be releasing our 1980 Spectralius Tenor Saxophone ($30) and 1987 Savana Alto Flute ($20) tomorrow 11AM/PST.


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## Scottyb (Nov 17, 2022)

R10k said:


> That flute sounds amazing...


It really does!


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## AlbertSmithers (Nov 17, 2022)

Burningbusch said:


> From Troels on Facebook: We will be releasing our 1980 Spectralius Tenor Saxophone ($30) and 1987 Savana Alto Flute ($20) tomorrow 11AM/PST.


wow... instant buy for me, it will also be my first Soundpaint purchase


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## Markrs (Nov 17, 2022)

AlbertSmithers said:


> wow... instant buy for me, it will also be my first Soundpaint purchase


remember to use a $15 voucher if it is your first purchase. Any person on here who has a soundpaint account (that is probably everyone on this thread, including me) can give you this code, they also get $15 (we are aksed not to post referrals codes on the actual forum but it is okay to give them via private message)


----------



## Scottyb (Nov 17, 2022)

AlbertSmithers said:


> wow... instant buy for me, it will also be my first Soundpaint purchase


Same!


----------



## grabauf (Nov 17, 2022)




----------



## wcreed51 (Nov 18, 2022)

v2.01 showed up as an update in Soundpaint this morning here in eastern USA


----------



## Bee_Abney (Nov 18, 2022)

Huzzah! Version 2.01 fixes the issue with importing samples at different bit and sample rates. Now we won't have to convert any samples to 24 bits and 48 kHz before creating our own Parts.

Thank you @Soundpaint!


----------



## grabauf (Nov 18, 2022)

Markrs said:


> remember to use a $15 voucher if it is your first purchase. Any person on here who has a soundpaint account (that is probably everyone on this thread, including me) can give you this code, they also get $15 (we are aksed not to post referrals codes on the actual forum but it is okay to give them via private message)


The page also showed me a 15% off coupon for subscribing the newsletter: SPNEWSLETTER


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## Colin66 (Nov 18, 2022)

Also looking forward to the Roland JX-8P UDS & Polivoks UDS synths too. I believe the Polivoks is a Russian synth so that'll be interesting.


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## Markrs (Nov 18, 2022)

grabauf said:


> The page also showed me a 15% off coupon for subscribing the newsletter: SPNEWSLETTER


Nice, though I already subscribe to the newsletter, hopefully the code will still work (I haven’t used the code before).


----------



## zeng (Nov 18, 2022)

grabauf said:


>


what time is it there (at PST region)?


----------



## Bee_Abney (Nov 18, 2022)

zeng said:


> what time is it there (at PST region)?


Half past nine am at the time you asked. The wait gets more intense with every minute!


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## sostenuto (Nov 18, 2022)

right now _ nuther ~ hour here in U.S.


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## Jrides (Nov 18, 2022)

If you are new to Soundpaint and want $30 in referral codes PM me. This does not work if you have already purchased before.


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## rMancer (Nov 18, 2022)

Jrides said:


> If you are new to Soundpaint and want $30 in referral codes PM me. This does not work if you have already purchased before.


Just a heads up to add for those unaware, it was just explained to me by SP support that downloading the free libraries count as a "purchase." So if you have already downloaded any of the free libraries, you are not eligible for the referral code discount.


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## Soundpaint (Nov 18, 2022)

*ATTENTION: Crossgrade newsletters are going out now for the 1980 Tenor Sax Spectralius and 1987 Alto Flute Savana. Be sure to check your Inbox and Spam folders. It can take anywhere from 5-60 minutes for the newsletters to go out.


----------



## Jrides (Nov 18, 2022)

rMancer said:


> Just a heads up to add for those unaware, it was just explained to me by SP support that downloading the free libraries count as a "purchase." So if you have already downloaded any of the free libraries, you are not eligible for the referral code discount.


 After you made your post I talked with Chad and they said the piano doesn’t count.


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## Technostica (Nov 18, 2022)

Soundpaint said:


> *ATTENTION: Crossgrade newsletters are going out now for the 1980 Tenor Sax Spectralius and 1987 Alto Flute Savana. Be sure to check your Inbox and Spam folders. It can take anywhere from 5-60 minutes for the newsletters to go out.


Just received one.


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## rMancer (Nov 18, 2022)

Jrides said:


> After you made your post I talked with Chad and they said the piano doesn’t count.


Interesting, Hawk told me otherwise, that free orders count as purchases. Regardless, when I try to check out, it says the code does not apply to my purchase, and support confirmed that as the reason why. I suppose I could just sign up for a new soundpaint account and start fresh


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## Jrides (Nov 18, 2022)

rMancer said:


> Interesting, Hawk told me otherwise, that free orders count as purchases. Regardless, when I try to check out, it says the code does not apply to my purchase, and support confirmed that as the reason why. I suppose I could just sign up for a new soundpaint account and start fresh


Talked to Hawk as well. however all I have in my account is the piano. and I haven’t downloaded it yet. Maybe that’s the difference? Strange.


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## Technostica (Nov 18, 2022)

rMancer said:


> Interesting, Hawk told me otherwise, that free orders count as purchases. Regardless, when I try to check out, it says the code does not apply to my purchase, and support confirmed that as the reason why. I suppose I could just sign up for a new soundpaint account and start fresh


It has crossed my mind, I'm cheap.


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## robgb (Nov 18, 2022)

I got one for the alto flute and just bought it. Downloading now. $10. My first Soundpaint purchase.


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## zeng (Nov 18, 2022)

It's incredible...I'm in love with tenor sax and alto flute legato.
HAL is wow...Thanks Troels & SP Team 🙏🧡


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## filipjonathan (Nov 18, 2022)

32gb for a legato flute?! Seriously?!


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## isu89 (Nov 18, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> 32gb for a legato flute?! Seriously?!


Sounds really great; only $20 is a good deal


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## pete_crum (Nov 18, 2022)

I'm getting a consistent screechy squeek when quickly alternating between A4/G4 on multiple articulations....


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## zeng (Nov 18, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> 32gb for a legato flute?! Seriously?!


It is 21gb


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## gzapper (Nov 18, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> 32gb for a legato flute?! Seriously?!


Just imagine how big the files will be for the bass flute.
I was going to try to find the discount code but then, its only $20


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## Soundpaint (Nov 18, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> 32gb for a legato flute?! Seriously?!


23.32GB for the Alto Flute and 32 Programs 
It has 9 different Legatos, dozens of expressive arcs. Several short notes, runs, trills, breath noises, flute clicks. So... not just 23.32GB for legatos.


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## Soundpaint (Nov 18, 2022)

robgb said:


> I got one for the alto flute and just bought it. Downloading now. $10. My first Soundpaint purchase.


So happy for you. Congrats!


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## filipjonathan (Nov 18, 2022)

Soundpaint said:


> 23.32GB for the Alto Flute and 32 Programs
> It has 9 different Legatos, dozens of expressive arcs. Several short notes, runs, trills, breath noises, flute clicks. So... not just 23.32GB for legatos.


Still, it's just one instrument. Can't even imagine the space needed for the whole orchestra 🥶 It would be good if the size could be compressed or something.


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## filipjonathan (Nov 18, 2022)

zeng said:


> It is 21gb


You're right, my bad. Still, it's too much for me.


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## Jeremy Morgan (Nov 18, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> You're right, my bad. Still, it's too much for me.


 If you buy into Soundpaint you have to buy into an SSD budget. That is just table stakes, legato or no.... 21Gb is small compared to some of the other existing stuff without.


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## ScarletJerry (Nov 18, 2022)

11 GB for a steel drum library very high too. Yikes! I’m looking forward to hearing comparisons of these to their Kontakt versions because the Kontakt counterparts already sound very good.


----------



## PrimeEagle (Nov 18, 2022)

zzz00m said:


> That's probably a carryover from the context of when a sax is used in the horn lineup of a rock band alongside the trumpet and trombone, where the sax is the only woodwind, but is made of brass. It is considered one of the "horns". Even the NI "Session Horns" includes a sax.
> 
> I know someone who plays sax in a rock band and we had this discussion a while back. Although of course a sax is technically a woodwind because of the single reed.


I've also had conductors and band directors refer to saxophones as brass.


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## Technostica (Nov 18, 2022)

Storage is cheap compared to software unless you are using internal Apple stuff.
4TB right now is £250 to £325 for decent drives.
So let’s say £80 per TB or £4 per 50GB.
So 20GB for a flute is £1.60.
So even if the size is four times that of other flutes, the difference is only £1.20.
When choosing between two flutes, I see that as negligible.
Then you look at the low prices of SP libraries and the chances are the overall cost is less than the competition.

I know there are other considerations, but frankly, if you are someone that requires a large array of libraries, at some point you have to invest in a storage strategy that grows with you.
At that point it’s not much of an issue.
Unless you bought a Mac Studio and spent £2,400 for 7.5GB of storage.
In that case, paying four to five times more, might make you more squeamish about library sizes.
BBC Pro uses about £250 of space at Apple’s rates.
Wow, that’s an eye opener.


----------



## pee102 (Nov 18, 2022)

What is the release date of the soprano saxophone library?…almost can’t wait…so great stuff Soundpaint!!


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## AlbertSmithers (Nov 18, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> You're right, my bad. Still, it's too much for me.


You can always just delete the samples for the patches you won't use. (Assuming this is easy to do, I'm DLing it now!) 

Personally I kinda to have choice because the alternative could be considered very bare bones.


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## zzz00m (Nov 18, 2022)

filipjonathan said:


> Still, it's just one instrument. Can't even imagine the space needed for the whole orchestra 🥶 It would be good if the size could be compressed or something.


I think Soundpaint may excel at solo instrument libraries. Keep your full orchestras where they are for now...


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## sostenuto (Nov 18, 2022)

New 1987 Alto Flute Savana _ volume, in Reaper, seems quite low compared to adjacent K6.7.1 track, and new Waldorf Streichfett Demo track. 🤷🏻


----------



## Justin L. Franks (Nov 18, 2022)

The alto flute is absolutely gorgeous! And the polyphonic legato is effortless. $20 is a great price.

I love alto flutes, they have a richer sound than concert flutes. I really would love to see a developer sample an alto flute ensemble. Three, maybe four alto flutes. As long as it is more than two. Having three or more helps "smooth out" the small tuning differences between the individual instruments IMO.

And also with one or two of them replaced with concert flutes for a mixed ensemble (so 2 alto flutes + 1 concert flute, 3 altos + 1 concert, or 2 altos + 2 concerts).

It would be a rather interesting alternative to a standard flute section. With the mixed ensemble, it would have a slightly smaller range than a concert flute ensemble or an alto-only ensemble. But it would only be around half an octave, so a ~2.5 octave range instead of a 3 octave range. Not a big deal.


----------



## pete_crum (Nov 18, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> New 1987 Alto Flute Savana _ volume, in Reaper, seems quite low compared to adjacent K6.7.1 track, and new Waldorf Streichfett Demo track. 🤷🏻


I had the same experience with it.


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## ism (Nov 18, 2022)

Justin L. Franks said:


> The alto flute is absolutely gorgeous! And the polyphonic legato is effortless. $20 is a great price.
> 
> I love alto flutes, they have a richer sound than concert flutes. I really would love to see a developer sample an alto flute ensemble. Three, maybe four alto flutes. As long as it is more than two. Having three or more helps "smooth out" the small tuning differences between the individual instruments IMO.
> 
> ...



Metropolis Ark 2 has an alto flute ensemble, available a la carte,


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 18, 2022)

I like this Alto Flute. @Soundpaint 

Few Soundpaint requests ... please program color shading on the actual note range of the instrument on the keyboard versus the extended range.

Figure out a new way to list patches that does not go out of visual range of the panel. And I have no idea what MJ means.

Some of these patches Soft Echoes are masterful.

More velocity layers on Shorts please ... as long as you are in the studio get er all done. From soft to overblown.

No multiphonics?

The arcs wow! The chords wow!


----------



## ism (Nov 18, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> I like this Alto Flute. @Soundpaint
> 
> Few Soundpaint requests ... please program color shading on the actual note range of the instrument on the keyboard versus the extended range.
> 
> ...


Is it different from the Claire?


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 18, 2022)

ism said:


> Is it different from the Claire?


It's definitely Claire... Heard some of the same vocal gyrations in the back of the throat.


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 18, 2022)

The Legato is leaps and bounds beyond Claire However - sorry for more Bach Stress Test! 

Soundpaint Alto Flute Close Mics

View attachment Soundpaint Legato.mp3


To me this might be moving to sick awesome for legato winds. What to you think?

And here is Claire Natural Vibrato - MIDI stretched a touch to trigger Legato

View attachment Claire Natural Legato.mp3


Strong Legato

View attachment Claire StrongLegato.mp3


Close mics boosted to balance volume a bit.

Not 100% they are the same samples ... but at times I did here same throat vocalizations,. Certainly remastered at the least


----------



## polynaeus (Nov 18, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> The Legato is leaps and bounds beyond Claire However - sorry for more Bach Stress Test! Soundpaint Alto Flute Close Mics
> 
> View attachment Soundpaint Legato.mp3
> 
> ...


When you say it’s better, what is better about it?

Can you run this same MIDI with the original Claire? So we can listen to the audio files back to back?


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 18, 2022)

polynaeus said:


> When you say it’s better, what is better about it?
> 
> Can you run this same MIDI with the original Claire? So we can listen to the audio files back to back?


Done! To me it is no much more nimble under the fingers. And at times I heard a real player as it was meant to be.


----------



## Soundpaint (Nov 19, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Figure out a new way to list patches that does not go out of visual range of the panel. And I have no idea what MJ means.


The last two letters of any Program are the initials of the person who made it. TF is Troels Folmann etc In this case MJ is Marissa Johnson, one of our producers (also myself, the person typing this). 

A complete list is available in the About Soundpaint... section in the hamburger menu.


----------



## holywilly (Nov 19, 2022)

The new legato function in Soundpaint doesn’t work on the older Soundpaint libraries? I tried it with Bazantar and it doesn’t make any difference.


----------



## Soundpaint (Nov 19, 2022)

holywilly said:


> The new legato function in Soundpaint doesn’t work on the older Soundpaint libraries? I tried it with Bazantar and it doesn’t make any difference.


No. H.A.L. (Hyper Acoustic Legato) will not currently work with a library unless it is enabled to use legato. So far only the Tenor Saxophone, Alto Flute, and Soprano Saxophone (coming soon) can use Legato.

However, Dynamic Sustains can be enabled for any library. So you can load a Program from an instrument like a Piano, for example, and go to Sound Mode and turn on Dynamic Sustains, which then allows you to crescendo and decrescendo the Piano... which is obviously something an actual Piano can't do.


----------



## holywilly (Nov 19, 2022)

Soundpaint said:


> No. H.A.L. (Hyper Acoustic Legato) will not currently work with a library unless it is enabled to use legato. So far only the Tenor Saxophone, Alto Flute, and Soprano Saxophone (coming soon) can use Legato.
> 
> However, Dynamic Sustains can be enabled for any library. So you can load a Program from an instrument like a Piano, for example, and go to Sound Mode and turn on Dynamic Sustains, which then allows you to crescendo and decrescendo the Piano... which is obviously something an actual Piano can't do.


Cool! Looking forward to more HAL instruments.


----------



## Markrs (Nov 19, 2022)

Soundpaint said:


> However, Dynamic Sustains can be enabled for any library. So you can load a Program from an instrument like a Piano, for example, and go to Sound Mode and turn on Dynamic Sustains, which then allows you to crescendo and decrescendo the Piano... which is obviously something an actual Piano can't do.


This sounds very cool, has Troels done a YouTube video using this on the non-legato libraries?


----------



## Soundpaint (Nov 19, 2022)

Markrs said:


> This sounds very cool, has Troels done a YouTube video using this on the non-legato libraries?


I think he mentioned it in either one of the walkthroughs or the Soundpaint 2.0 video. I know he's commented it a few times between Youtube comments and our Discord server. It hasn't been demoed yet though since it was just released. We will undoubtedly get it in our regular videos pretty soon though.


----------



## polynaeus (Nov 20, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> The Legato is leaps and bounds beyond Claire However - sorry for more Bach Stress Test!
> 
> Soundpaint Alto Flute Close Mics
> 
> ...


Thank you for doing this. It’s not incredibly obvious the difference here. I FEEL like SoundPaint is better if I squint, but it’s not jumping off the page at me better.

Not sure if that speaks to the quality of the Claire legato, or the lack thereof in the SoundPaint HAL legato. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Grymt (Nov 21, 2022)

The Alto Flute Savana has some horrible screeching sounds on a few high notes, in almost all legato patches. I've mailed Soundpaint about the bugs yesterday, they didn't respond yet but I guess they're busy.

Also, the Soundpaint website claims it has "highly realistic vibrato control".
I can't find ANY vibrato control. Maybe I'm missing something, I hope so, but I don't think it exists.
Some people don't mind baked in vibrato, but I do. Within a short time you notice it, and from that point on things begin to sound very unnatural.

$20 is not much at all. But I think this instrument isn't finished, and I suspect the claims on the website about vibrato are just not true.

I can't recommend it like this. Even if I'm wrong about the vibrato. I hope it gets updated quickly.
I won't be buying other HAL instruments before I know bugs will be repaired.


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## pete_crum (Nov 22, 2022)

Grymt said:


> The Alto Flute Savana has some horrible screeching sounds on a few high notes, in almost all legato patches. I've mailed Soundpaint about the bugs yesterday, they didn't respond yet but I guess they're busy.
> 
> Also, the Soundpaint website claims it has "highly realistic vibrato control".
> I can't find ANY vibrato control. Maybe I'm missing something, I hope so, but I don't think it exists.
> ...


1. Vibrato control: I agree with you 100%. If it's there, I didn't find it.

2. Screeching: This problem became obvious to me within 5 minutes of using the instrument. How could that pass SP testing?

3. Regardless of price consideration, I ask myself if this instrument delivers what SP was selling in its promotional videos. For me the answer is no.


----------



## wcreed51 (Nov 22, 2022)

There's a huge difference in sound between an initial note, and the same note arrived at from another note.


----------



## rrichard63 (Nov 22, 2022)

It appears that the 1999 Soprano Saxophone Moonlight is now available for $30.

Does anybody know whether this is based on the 8Dio Studio Soprano Sax and whether there will a discount for owners of the 8Dio product? I have not received any emails about this.


----------



## Rudianos (Nov 22, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> It appears that the 1999 Soprano Saxophone Moonlight is now available for $30.
> 
> Does anybody know whether this is based on the 8Dio Studio Soprano Sax and whether there will a discount for owners of the 8Dio product? I have not received any emails about this.


It is I think the doctor mentioned that. You should ask customer service. You should ask customer service


----------



## jesussaddle (Nov 26, 2022)

Grymt said:


> The Alto Flute Savana has some horrible screeching sounds on a few high notes, in almost all legato patches. I've mailed Soundpaint about the bugs yesterday, they didn't respond yet but I guess they're busy.
> 
> Also, the Soundpaint website claims it has "highly realistic vibrato control".
> I can't find ANY vibrato control. Maybe I'm missing something, I hope so, but I don't think it exists.
> ...


I'm downloading it as we speak, but I'm wondering if "highly realistic vibrato control" is referring to mimicking the type of vibrato control that would naturally be executed during a performance" meaning that it would sound natural and unforced in terms of pitch wavering, as opposed to referring to actual control in the hands of the user of the library. I also am one, being a guitarist, who expects to change vibrato rate and depth in response to the accompanying sounds - rather than having one of these (or both) be baked in. On the other hand this may be a case where H.A.L. and Soundpaint earn their keep in some other way.


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## Rudianos (Nov 27, 2022)

Going into the previously posted demo and then just playing it on the keyboard. There is something that is missing from Claire. Maybe just a bit more lifeless a little more sluggish too.

I do here that little whistle that comes in the Soundpaint version and it is also in Claire to a lesser degree. IDK is that is a common sound in flute playing.

A complaint about 8dio libraries is that often I must play at the speed at which the instrument is built for. The intra note arcs and vibrato curves etc. This means at the speed they are bult for, sounds great. Push too far beyond, especially faster ... ehhh not as much.

This may be a step up in legato - and I really do like how they put really nice player arcs together and fused them. At time is feels so real and musical. The intra note swells are more expressive in Soundpaint. And I do not feel like I lose anything when I play fast. Like it can read my speed and adjust itself. Can def be used effectively. And the sound design is awesome. 

Someday I hope 8Dio/Soundpaint ... records new players and optimizes them for Soundpaint as opposed to porting. But hey $20 and this Flute it Pretty darn awesome.

We are still in sort of a woodwinds sucking stage of VI libraries. IMO. Show me a library that matches Joshua Bell, Virharmonic, Cremona.


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## jesussaddle (Nov 27, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> New 1987 Alto Flute Savana _ volume, in Reaper, seems quite low compared to adjacent K6.7.1 track, and new Waldorf Streichfett Demo track. 🤷🏻


Yes, I'm new to the Soundpaint paid family (I tried out their free piano for a few minutes but only recently got started trying to understand it and use it.) 

For me in the past hour, I find that even maxing the level in Soundpaint (trying various of their titles), its still too low to properly audition the sound relative to other instruments. Then even if I jack up the level on the channel on which Soundpaint is placed, it leaves me feeling awkward about lack of headroom for further mixing. I feel I have no choice but to commit to using TB Pro Audio's free myMeter VU Meter plugin (which lets me transparently add some boost there). I think I'll mention it to their team and see if they're aware. They're not the only dev with such a "safe" level. But probably one of the one's with the lowest volume.


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## jesussaddle (Nov 27, 2022)

Grymt said:


> Also, the Soundpaint website claims it has "highly realistic vibrato control".
> I can't find ANY vibrato control. Maybe I'm missing something, I hope so, but I don't think it exists.
> Some people don't mind baked in vibrato, but I do. Within a short time you notice it, and from that point on things begin to sound very unnatural.


Yes, I did find out that it is "baked in" in the sense that the desired realism is captured for that recorded tempo. I don't mind this. However, although you CAN adjust the rate of that baked in vibrato (rate & depth I presume) you CAN'T turn this feature off and add your own (depth & rate), which would be nice to be able to do. You can speed it up or slow it down, but not substitute it for purely controlled mechanized vibrato like from a pitch wheel. 

"Yes. So we have natural (not artificial vibrato) in the samples - meaning the vibrato is how the player performed it. Different velocity layers and programs have different intensities. The way to control the natural vibrato speed is to go to Rack > Time and then Right Click on Rack > Time > Speed and choose Add Midi CC Automation and then wiggle whatever controller you want to control the speed. The benefit of this is that its real vibrato. So when you use it on our Savana Alto Flute for example - you get that almost fragile/nervous Jamer Horner sound when speed is moved up and the vibrato gets faster. I personally prefer real (player/performed) vibrato over synthesized or modelled. There are so many small and beautiful human imperfections in the natural vibrato. Cheers, Troels."

Its not a deal breaker for me at all, but I'm doing ambient and experimental stuff anyway.


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## Grymt (Nov 28, 2022)

I got some replies from Soundpaint helpdesk. They want me to make a video. I reacted twice, saying I don't know how to do that and I don't think it's necessary, everybody can hear the high pitched tones at B5, and my second question was: how do I control vibrato? Well, I really don't know how to explain in a video that I want an explanation... ?

But they insist, claiming they can't replicate or apparently understand my questions without a video.

This is going nowhere, and after years of doubt I think this might be my cue to finally ditch 8dio / Soundpaint.


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## Soundpaint (Nov 28, 2022)

Grymt said:


> I got some replies from Soundpaint helpdesk. They want me to make a video. I reacted twice, saying I don't know how to do that and I don't think it's necessary, everybody can hear the high pitched tones at B5, and my second question was: how do I control vibrato? Well, I really don't know how to explain in a video that I want an explanation... ?
> 
> But they insist, claiming they can't replicate or apparently understand my questions without a video.
> 
> This is going nowhere, and after years of doubt I think this might be my cue to finally ditch 8dio / Soundpaint.


Sorry Support has not been very helpful. They usually are.

I took a listen to B5 in the Alto Flute library. Without getting into sample design too in-depth, I do hear what you're probably referring to as the "screech." I believe you are referring to the start of the note. Essentially, it is a result of the Alto Flute playing in the higher register since it's a little harder to produce note than a lower register. It is also present in some of the notes above B5 as well. There is a lot more force behind the note to get it to sound and that can cause what you're hearing. Even so, I'll see if we can swap the sample and issue an update. We do have optimization updates for the engine and libraries coming anyway, so the update might happen then. Should hopefully only be a few months on those, but they should be welcome updates.

As for your question about vibrato, the speed is baked into the original sample from Claire, but using our Rack > Time module you can change the speed of the vibrato. That is what that sentence is referring to in the product description. If you load the Program 'Winds - 1987 Alto Flute Legato Vib Speed MJ' the Time module speed is already Programmed to the Mod Wheel and allows you to control the speed of the Vibrato. If you want to check it out.

Rack > Time is on like half of the Legato Programs, but it is turned off for most of those. The reason Time is not on every Program is because Dynamic Sustains are turned on for the majority of the Legato Programs and is automatically mapped to the MW when it's on. I didn't want the MW to be too crowded when I was designing the Programs, because we have to keep ALL users in mind when making Programs. Some people might not want vibrato speed automatically mapped to the MW along with dynamics and reverb and eq and (you get the idea) Not crowding the MW is something I try to be mindful of when making Programs, which is my they are designed that way. Often things like Rack > Time or Reverb or whatever will be in a Program already, but turned off so that users who want it just have to turn it on and maybe modify where it's automated to fit their setup best.

Rack > Time can be added to any Programs if you want to use it, if it isn't there already. You will find Time in the Rack section. You can Program the Speed to any CC that works for you. To add CC automation, right click what you want to automate and wiggle the CC you want to control it with. I hope this helps!


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## Soundpaint (Nov 28, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> It appears that the 1999 Soprano Saxophone Moonlight is now available for $30.
> 
> Does anybody know whether this is based on the 8Dio Studio Soprano Sax and whether there will a discount for owners of the 8Dio product? I have not received any emails about this.


Yes. It is from the 8Dio Studio Soprano Saxophone. You should have received a crossgrade email if you own the library. If you own the library and did not get a crossgrade offer, please contact Support and they will assist


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## Soundpaint (Nov 28, 2022)

Rudianos said:


> Going into the previously posted demo and then just playing it on the keyboard. There is something that is missing from Claire. Maybe just a bit more lifeless a little more sluggish too.
> 
> I do here that little whistle that comes in the Soundpaint version and it is also in Claire to a lesser degree. IDK is that is a common sound in flute playing.
> 
> ...


For our Legato launch, having converted 8Dio legato libraries acts as a benchmark for us. Take an existing Kontakt library and put it in SP and see how it compares to the original and be mindful of how to make it better. We do think the SP version is better as the instrument is more agile and flexible in its playing, specifically in terms of Legato. 

ABSOLUTELY there will be Soundpaint original legato libraries. As a woodwind player, I would LOVE to see better woodwinds libraries as well! So it's going to happen.

Anyway, lots of improvements on the way. Lots of cool and fun libraries. Soundpaint 2.0 is only the beginning.


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## woodslanding (Dec 2, 2022)

c0nsilience said:


> The UI is so much more fluid than Kontakt. It’s like comparing Apple to Windows 95! 😀


The kontakt ui has been unchanged for at least 20 years, so it's actually a very apt comparison.


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## wunderflo (Dec 22, 2022)

From their latest newsletter:

"Secondly we will be *expanding upon the Soundpaint Parts and Racks*. Users will be able to load more Parts, control microphones and assign keyswitches for the parts (_yes, keyswitches are indeed coming_). This is particularly for orchestral templates, so users can quickly build complex articulation systems or ensembles and control them with ease."

Very interesting. The current way of handling mics and articulations really doesn't feel very elegant, intuitive or minimal (contrary to the rest of SP). 

Personally, I'd keep it very minimal, as I don't think that SP instruments even need multiple mic perspectives, and I'd prefer "total performance"-like patches that don't need keyswitches to keep ease of use the top priority, but we'll see how they implement that. I just hope Soundpaint stays true to itself. When introducing such a new approach, there's always a lot of backlash from people who want the new to be exactly like the old (traditional Kontakt orchestral libraries), and sometimes it takes a while to push through those resistances until the new concept is established and accepted for what it is and what makes it unique.

Also, they announced more, "next-gen" (developed from scratch?) orchestral instruments.

Looking forward to your next developments, @Soundpaint ! It's crazy what you achieved this year. Congrats!


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## Yanko (Dec 24, 2022)

Jrides said:


> If you are new to Soundpaint and want $30 in referral codes PM me. This does not work if you have already purchased before.


Please PM me and I'll use both, I can't PM you since I haven't posted anything here


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## wcreed51 (Dec 24, 2022)

Soundpaint said:


> ABSOLUTELY there will be Soundpaint original legato libraries. As a woodwind player, I would LOVE to see better woodwinds libraries as well! So it's going to happen.


From what I see with the clarinet and alto flute, the different articulations sound so different that they don't really go together to sound like one instrument. Different volume, different timbre, different reverb...


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 24, 2022)

wcreed51 said:


> From what I see with the clarinet and alto flute, the different articulations sound so different that they don't really go together to sound like one instrument. Different volume, different timbre, different reverb...


Do you mean different reverb added in Soundpaint? If so, those are Programs, not articulations.

Or are you saying the samples in the Parts sound like they were recorded in different acoustics?


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## tsk (Dec 30, 2022)

I've got a question about Soundpaint, which sadly isn't answered in the video tutorial (it's one thing which was skipped over as far as I can tell) and there's no manual!

If you go to the menu in Soundpaint, and then "UI Preferences", the first item in the list is:

"Show This Again"

If I click that, I get five options which I can select or unselect.

Is this so that I can have a menu pop up on carrying out certain actions?


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