# Cubase or Digital Performer?



## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 6, 2012)

Hey gang,

I'm divorcing from Apple, going PC. Obviously, this means leaving Logic (after nearly 20 years!).

Cubase or DP?


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## Daryl (Mar 6, 2012)

DP is an unknown entity on Windows. If you have to make the decision now, go with Cubase. If you can wait at least 6 months then see how the port to Windows works for DP, then my advice would be not to make a decision now.

D


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## Farkle (Mar 6, 2012)

Daryl @ Tue Mar 06 said:


> DP is an unknown entity on Windows. If you have to make the decision now, go with Cubase. If you can wait at least 6 months then see how the port to Windows works for DP, then my advice would be not to make a decision now.
> 
> D



Ned, I agree with Daryl. I would wait on DP to see how the PC handles the 64 bit architecture, and the speed of the sample playback. If PC is the same as MAC, then DP has this MAS audio layer OVER the native audio layer, which adds latency to the project. 

Having said that, I love DP's workflow, and DP's powerful way to "write to film" with tempo mapping, etc, is absolutely stupendous.

Might I also throw Studio One (www.presonus.com) into the mix? Here's why:

You said you were looking at Cubase. The head programmer(s) from Studio One was involved in the programming of Cubase; so Studio One has a lot in common with the workflow of Cubase. However, the engine was built from the ground up, and is super fast (especially on 64 bit). Plus, Studio One is designed to have very fast workflow, quick keystrokes, etc. I really like it (can't you tell)? 

One possible dealbreaker: you can only import/sync video in the 32 bit version. 64 bit doesn't support video. If you need to work with video, then perhaps Cubase or DP fits your needs.

Mike


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks Mike. Yes, I work with video... a lot.


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## Farkle (Mar 6, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Mar 06 said:


> Thanks Mike. Yes, I work with video... a lot.



Whoops! Then, I think Studio One is not the right DAW for you. 

It really comes down to, how well will DP port to the PC as a 64 bit DAW? I wish I had the answer for that. I happen to prefer DP's workflow, and their plugins (I think) are stronger than Cubase's plugins. (I did forget about the plugins, DP's are really competitive!).

I hope that my ramblings have helped! 

Mike


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## Daryl (Mar 6, 2012)

Farkle @ Tue Mar 06 said:


> Might I also throw Studio One (www.presonus.com) into the mix? Here's why:
> 
> You said you were looking at Cubase. The head programmer(s) from Studio One was involved in the programming of Cubase; so Studio One has a lot in common with the workflow of Cubase. However, the engine was built from the ground up, and is super fast (especially on 64 bit). Plus, Studio One is designed to have very fast workflow, quick keystrokes, etc. I really like it (can't you tell)?
> 
> ...


I don't think that Studio One is anywhere near a substitute for either Cubase or DP. It's a good program but it is comparatively basic.

D


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## studioj (Mar 6, 2012)

I think if I had to choose between the two I would pick Cubase, only because it is the most similar in workflow to Logic to me. I've given all 3 a fair shake in recent times, and am an ex-DP user from DP3 days... but I always come back to Logic. There are just so many small workflow benefits to logic that are easy to forget about when getting irritated with its quirks. Are you leaving because of the hardware mostly? 

a number of things bug me about the current incarnation of DP:

-can't mute MIDI notes
-when you select a parameter to automate in the 'sequence editor', a line at the current mixer/plugin value is not available, you have to reference the level and create it, or you have to take a 'snapshot'. 
-to change the start time of a movie you have to open a separate window. And the movie doesn't update in real time as you change this number, you have to close the window first. So a bit of Math is required if your videos aren't properly slated/consistent/burned in, etc....
-no hardware inserts
-higher latency at matching buffer settings to other programs
-plugin windows don't float
-only one mixer window

I've found it is slightly less stable than logic as well... 
There are a number of things i really love about it too, like folder tracks and its recording workflow is similar to Pro Tools which is great. Included plugins are very solid. I especially like their guitar lineup. 'Chunks' is one of the most useful features in any DAW out there. And lots of great scoring/tempo features as stated above. 

Cubase and Nuendo both have 30 day demos so you can give them a test run. 

For me though, Logic is still the answer even with my 'slower than what you can get in a PC' mac pro. and i think we'll be pleasantly surprised by what Logic X brings us at some point this year.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks for that info. I would stick with Logic, but since I'm giving up Apple, it has to go too, no turning back.


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## IFM (Mar 6, 2012)

Why are you divorcing Apple? I still prefer OSX myself but can understand sometimes. 
Chris


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## Jaap (Mar 6, 2012)

I have no experience with DP, but recently switched from Sonar to Cubase due to the lack of video support from Sonar.
I found working in Cubase with video extremely comfortable, tools like time warp made my live really easier.
Also vst3 and expression maps are really good. Like studioj said, cubase has a 30 trial period where you can use the full program without limitations. Might give that a shot


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 6, 2012)

Dragonwind @ 6/3/2012 said:


> Why are you divorcing Apple? I still prefer OSX myself but can understand sometimes.
> Chris



Too big, too ubiquitous, too hyped, it's become the very thing I ran away from 25 years ago (MS). iWalkaway.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 6, 2012)

Ned, Cubase all the way.
The best pro application out there, and i have tried them all.
You'll never look back...


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks Pat!


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## IFM (Mar 6, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Mar 06 said:


> Dragonwind @ 6/3/2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Why are you divorcing Apple? I still prefer OSX myself but can understand sometimes.
> ...



Okay well if that's what you want to do then my .02 is also for Cubase. I'm using it more and more in OSX and also being a Logic user for many years there will be things you miss but others you will love, especially a lot of the midi editing. 

Chris


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 6, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Mar 06 said:


> Dragonwind @ 6/3/2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Why are you divorcing Apple? I still prefer OSX myself but can understand sometimes.
> ...



Not ubiquitous Ned. there are millions more Windows users than OSX users. Why not hedge your bets and use Logic with a PC slave as I do?

That said, if you are going PC/Windows, Cubase is a great program and more Logic-like than DP, and it is a proven commodity where DP PC is a newbie.

And you all know how I feel about newbies :twisted:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 6, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ 6/3/2012 said:


> Not ubiquitous Ned. there are millions more Windows users than OSX users. Why not hedge your bets and use Logic with a PC slave as I do?



Sorry but I was thinking of 'my' world, which is made up of many artists. Most of them use Apple. Macs and iPads are in every production office I go to, every producer/ director has an iPhone. I will try to be Apple-free for at least a year to two. You know how when you live through a long romance/relationship, and your partner does things that drive you away, you find it impossible to imagine ever being friends in the future? That's how I feel about Apple.


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 6, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Mar 06 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ 6/3/2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Not ubiquitous Ned. there are millions more Windows users than OSX users. Why not hedge your bets and use Logic with a PC slave as I do?
> ...



Call me crazy but I would think using the same machines, etc. that _every_ producer/director/production office has would be a GOOD thing, but that's just me 

So are you selling anything cheaply?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 6, 2012)

OK, Jay, you're crazy! :wink: I don't want to fit in, I want to stand out (sorry, but that's been my silent motto for 40+ years). And as long as they can read my emails and hear/approve my cues via the net, it matters not one bit that we share the same OS.


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 6, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Mar 06 said:


> OK, Jay, you're crazy! :wink: I don't want to fit in, I want to stand out (sorry, but that's been my silent motto for 40+ years). And as long as they can read my emails and hear/approve my cues via the net, it matters not one bit that we share the same OS.



So in the words of Groucho Marx, you don't want to belong to any club that would have someone like you as a member? 

Personally, I make my choices based on what I like, regardless of how many others do or do not make the same choice and hope and trust that my music and my professionalism is what will make me stand out, not ephemeral things like those. But horses for courses.

Anyway, Cubase is a great app and I were to switch from Logic to a PC based rig, that would be the way I would go.


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## Daryl (Mar 6, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Mar 06 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ 6/3/2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Not ubiquitous Ned. there are millions more Windows users than OSX users. Why not hedge your bets and use Logic with a PC slave as I do?
> ...


Well the good part about your switch is that as long as you make sure that all your software is cross platform, you can swap to and fro as often as you like.

One thing to watch about the switch from Logic is that there are a few things you can do in the Environment that you can't do directly in Cubase. However, all of these are possible to replicate using simple 3rd party software that will work perfectly with Cubase, so as long as you know what you want to do, you shouldn't miss anything. There are also some great features that logic users can only dream about, so you have nothing to lose.

D


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 6, 2012)

so you have nothing to lose.

D[/quote]

Except the 100s of hours it will take him to become as facile with Cubase as he probably is with Logic. :lol:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 6, 2012)

Jay, you're starting to get annoying. Please stop trying to convince me directly or indirectly to stick with Apple. This thread is about alternatives to Logic. I KNOW it's going to be a bit rough, and I can handle it, as I could handle much more difficult things that have nothing to do with music-making.


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## EastWest Lurker (Mar 6, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Mar 06 said:


> Jay, you're starting to get annoying. Please stop trying to convince me directly or indirectly to stick with Apple. This thread is about alternatives to Logic. I KNOW it's going to be a bit rough, and I can handle it, as I could handle much more difficult things that have nothing to do with music-making.



I am not, honestly Ned. I think you are making a very viable choice and I know you have factored in the learning curve issue.


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## reddognoyz (Mar 6, 2012)

I am a long time DP user. It's great for working to picture. I would suggest you look at it after a couple of dots.... as in 8.01, 8.02


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## givemenoughrope (Mar 6, 2012)

I use Cubase on a Mac Pro 2.6 quad (old! soon to be a PC) at times with Bidule as a rewire. I have three PC slaves with VE Pro. Video is run on my Macbook Pro (also old and soon to be updated to a mac Mini) in Logic 8 (sync via network with MTC). 

I'd go with Cubase on a 64-bit PC.....BUT, I think it's good to keep an Apple machine with Logic around, just for the unexpected. You never know.


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## flashman (Mar 6, 2012)

I use DP and have done forever but I wouldn't choose it now over Cubase or Logic. Nice features but MAS, overall stability issues, CPU efficiency, lack of 64 bit - I know it's nearly here but how long is it going to be before it's really useable?

We did a like-for-like CPU test running Logic 9, Cubase 6 and DP 7.24 on a Quad Mac. Identical sequence. Logic not surprisingly used to least CPU. Cubase about 30% more than Logic and DP was well more than double the CPU Logic used playing the same sequence. That explained why my Logic friends can a run a reasonable template on a Macbook Pro whereas DP runs out of steam. 

On a Mac I'd go for Logic. If I was worried about the future of the Mac Pro line I'd go for Cubase!


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## Daryl (Mar 6, 2012)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Mar 06 said:


> so you have nothing to lose.
> 
> D



Except the 100s of hours it will take him to become as facile with Cubase as he probably is with Logic. :lol:[/quote]
Well that's a valid point, but I think a much more difficult thing is knowing when your current workflow is really the best workflow, and when it's just something that you've become used to, because of some clunky old bug, or badly programmed feature in your current application. I know that there are things I do that on the surface make no sense, but the reality is that I have to do them, and I'm sure that Ned's experience with Logic is no different.

I think the answer is to embrace the way of working that suits the application, and not try to make it something it's not

D


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## José Herring (Mar 6, 2012)

Cubase for sure. You'll love the routing capabilities for the kind of music production you do.

PC are great as long as you get the right parts and set it up right software wise from the start. The only annoying thing about PC is one little bios option turned on can ruin the entire thing. Took me a long time to figure out what's needed and what's 3rd part crap that is just a "feature" intended to sell a mobo or something.
 
With PC, I always take the less is more approach. The less 3rd party software running in the back ground, the more stable the pc is.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks for the excellent advice, Jose!


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## Nachivnik (Mar 7, 2012)

I've been comparing Logic on a friend's Mac to my workflow of Cubase on Windows lately, trying to decide if I wanted to make the switch the other direction. I'm not 100% convinced yet, but so far, I don't see enough compelling me to switch. Though there are some things in Logic that I wish Cubase had (like the multiple colors for MIDI note velocity in the key editor), they are similar enough that, barring external reasons (such as you mentioned, your discontent with Apple), I see no reason to switch. Therefore, I would suggest to you that Cubase is a good alternative to Logic.

I can't compare with DP, but I am excited about this new option of DP on Windows. I can, however, relate how I landed on Cubase. Coming out of Sonar, I wanted a uniform experience, stability, and the best VST compatibility. I have been rewarded with a very stable Cubase. I tried Pro Tools m-powered twice, having difficulties with VI performance and with PT8, stability. I had iLok problems as well. I've never had any trouble with the Steinberg e-licencer, though, I do not like having to use it. OTOH, I also know that crackers aren't using the same program as me, so that's kind of nice.

Windows 7 is fantastic. I've been trying the Windows 8 customer preview, and I really don't like it in it's current form. Perhaps by release it will be okay, but I would strongly recommend Windows 7 with a plan to stick with it. That's the key thing on Windows. Don't rush ahead into the next thing. Make things work, leave them alone. As a longtime Mac user, you might be spooked by talk of instability, but really, for me, Windows 7 just works. On a Dell no less!

Oh, and from now on, every time I get or build a new computer, the first thing I will do is run the DPC latency checker. If you have spikes, download Process Monitor and watch it to see what may be causing the spikes. I had spikes on my budget (other Dell) laptop. I updated the BIOS to the latest version and now I could use this laptop if I wanted to. At this point, DPC latency is the most distinguishing factor in favor of Macs. They are all good, but with Windows, it's hit and miss. It's really the only area where I think you need to concern yourself with configuring a Windows machine. But, if you build a recommended system, you probably won't even have to do that much. If you can patch together a MIDI setup for the past 20+ years, you can certainly handle the minor tweaking required of a modern Windows 7 machine.

Anyway, welcome to the world of Windows! (and thanks for letting me join this board. This is my second post here. I'm Alfalfa on a few other boards)


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 7, 2012)

Thanks for your very good post, lots of useful information, tips! And welcomed to this fantastic forum!


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## NYC Composer (Mar 7, 2012)

I'm on Cubase Mac and have been since 1997. There have been a LOT of growing pains, but Cubase 6 is rock-solid for me. It crashes once in a blue moon, and almost always when I'm using bridged 32 bit plug ins that I know will cause problems (but I just can't he-p mahself!)

My understanding is that it works more efficiently on Windows, allowing you lower latency than on Mac. That will be one shock to get used to-you'll not be able to achieve as low buffers for VI recording as you can with Logic. Other than that, I love the workflow, ease of operation, and stability of Cubase. Good luck.


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## Walra48 (Mar 7, 2012)

Running Cubase here since '95 on mac. Cubase v. 6.5 runs like a dream on my Westmere Mac Pro on OSX Lion. I too work in tv/film. OS is a personal choice but I find running my studio on the OSX platform is better now than ever.


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## Hal (Mar 7, 2012)

Cubase is very good with me exept one problem when a session crash and u dont know why and u dont know how to retreive it, it was super stable for a year till it started hapening ,but for me a well built pc and as mentioned less stuff in he background result in a super stable machine with great performance

cubase is my choice,with Vst and rewire and the great midi functionality, i use it for audio and mix as well even tho i have a Protools studio


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## José Herring (Mar 7, 2012)

NYC Composer @ Wed Mar 07 said:


> I'm on Cubase Mac and have been since 1997. There have been a LOT of growing pains, but Cubase 6 is rock-solid for me. It crashes once in a blue moon, and almost always when I'm using bridged 32 bit plug ins that I know will cause problems (but I just can't he-p mahself!)
> 
> My understanding is that it works more efficiently on Windows, allowing you lower latency than on Mac. That will be one shock to get used to-you'll not be able to achieve as low buffers for VI recording as you can with Logic. Other than that, I love the workflow, ease of operation, and stability of Cubase. Good luck.



That was my understanding as well. But, then I read somewhere that as soon as you load a plugin Logic defaults to 1026 sample buffer no matter what your setting is. Does anybody know if this is true?


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## Nachivnik (Mar 7, 2012)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Mar 07 said:


> And welcomed to this fantastic forum!


 Thanks! o=? 

I should mention what has me looking beyond my current setup. 1) Cubase - there are a lot of windows. They are the last holdout for the old way. No unified interface. It's a bigger problem for laptops than multi-monitor setups. I'll bet that they deal with this in Cubase 7, but there are no guarantees there. 2) dongle - not a huge one for me, but it's there. 3) Windows managing my documents - I may be looking for software to remedy my messy nature, but a lot of my documents end up on my desktop. I think that when MS took over my My Documents folder by forcing programs to put there data in there, it didn't help. I had to create a subfolder for my actual documents. What I need to do is create an "Unsorted" folder. 4) Windows start menu - A mess of programs, uninstallers, help files, etc. MS lets the programs install all kinds of things. (I like OSX's programs folder in the dock). Windows 8 was supposed to address this, but made matters worse, IMO. 5) Windows Desktop - Some programs install an icon there, others do not. Maybe I just need to delete them all from the desktop since I can now pin what I use most often to the taskbar (Dock).

There. I just wanted you to make this transition to Windows with your eyes wide open.  These are the things that truly annoy me about my current environment. Probably would just be trading these annoyances for some others, and there is some question whether the source of the problem is the guy sitting at the keyboard (me). YMMV of course.

Edit: Right-clicked in the Start menu, went to Properties, unchecked both Privacy settings, so that the Start menu does not display recently opened programs. Then, I clicked "Customize", and unchecked "Use Large Icons." Then, I went to all of the icons littered across my desktop, right-clicked on each of them, and selected "pin to Start Menu". Then I moved the desktop icons into the garbage can. Now I have a nice, tidy list of them in my Start Menu, and a desktop cleared of them. Finally, I made one folder for my desktop named, "Unsorted Documents," wherein I put all of my unsorted documents. I now have a clean workspace. So, that's how you achieve tidiness in Windows. It takes some user-configuring, but it can be done.


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## IFM (Mar 7, 2012)

josejherring @ Wed Mar 07 said:


> NYC Composer @ Wed Mar 07 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm on Cubase Mac and have been since 1997. There have been a LOT of growing pains, but Cubase 6 is rock-solid for me. It crashes once in a blue moon, and almost always when I'm using bridged 32 bit plug ins that I know will cause problems (but I just can't he-p mahself!)
> ...



Not true. Any armed tracks run at the buffer you set.


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## Daryl (Mar 8, 2012)

NYC Composer @ Wed Mar 07 said:


> My understanding is that it works more efficiently on Windows, allowing you lower latency than on Mac. That will be one shock to get used to-you'll not be able to achieve as low buffers for VI recording as you can with Logic. Other than that, I love the workflow, ease of operation, and stability of Cubase. Good luck.


On Windows the performance of Cubase is just as good, if not better than Logic, and there are none of those 1 core spiking gotchas either, so I don't think that there will be anything to watch out for performance wise. It should be better all round in that department.  

D


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## Daryl (Mar 8, 2012)

Dragonwind @ Wed Mar 07 said:


> josejherring @ Wed Mar 07 said:
> 
> 
> > NYC Composer @ Wed Mar 07 said:
> ...


Yes, if you run in Live mode, then there are all sorts of things going on under the hood to try to make sure that you can achieve low latency. This has advantages and disadvantages, but as long as you know what they are, you can work around them. Cubase doesn't have a playback buffer, but in Windows, using a modern computer, you wouldn't need it anyway.

D


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## Peter Alexander (Mar 8, 2012)

Ned, a good person to talk with is Andrew K. as a while back he moved from Nuendo on the PC to the Mac. Depending on your audio editing needs, Nuendo might be worth a look. Daryl also uses Nuendo. Additionally, for Nuendo, a separate plugin is needed for sequencing. 

Having written books on both Cubase and Logic, I think the learning curve will be a hill not a cliff. Write me and I'll be glad to walk you through a procedure to learn Cubase quickly.

In speaking to engineers about both Cubase and Nuendo, the general consensus among those I spoke with was that they loved the program but not necessarily the built-in audio plugins. If you're using 3rd party and they transfer over, you're in good shape.

Since TrueSpec builds PCs, we had a recent customer on Cubase 5 and it just screams with an i7-960 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115224). However, for a few dollars more, the i7980 would be the better professional investment (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... &Tpk=i7980).

I haven't worked with Cubase in a while, but I do remember issues with the VST folder. So since you can download the manuals, that may be worth a pre-read.

Peter


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## Patrick de Caumette (Mar 8, 2012)

Peter Alexander @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> Additionally, for Nuendo, a separate plugin is needed for sequencing.



What do you mean by that Peter?


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## antoniopandrade (Mar 9, 2012)

I work mainly with DP7.24 and I've recently purchased Cubase for Mac. I'm really liking what I'm seeing so far, with a couple of exceptions (not being able to name VST instruments that go in the VST instruments rack can make things get confusing in big templates). But I've come across something that can be a showstopper. I was halfway across building my template when I had to stop to work on a project on DP. Coming back to Cubase the next day, my template project simply wouldn't load. It would crash when loading the instrument outputs. I've heard of some people having similar troubles (projects being corrupted out of nowhere, simply not opening). Is there anyway to export the midi info/track info from these projects? And is there something I might be doing wrong here? I'm really interested in learning this software!


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## IFM (Mar 9, 2012)

I've heard about this. Try opening a new project (blank) then open the crashing project but DO NOT ACTIVATE. If it then loads you can simply copy and past the tracks into the new project. Can't say I've ever run into this problem on any other DAW but it seems to get reported on both the PC and Mac side of Cubase. 
Chris


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## Daryl (Mar 9, 2012)

Peter Alexander @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> I haven't worked with Cubase in a while, but I do remember issues with the VST folder. So since you can download the manuals, that may be worth a pre-read.
> 
> Peter


Nah, VST folders are cool.

D


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## NYC Composer (Mar 9, 2012)

Dragonwind @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> I've heard about this. Try opening a new project (blank) then open the crashing project but DO NOT ACTIVATE. If it then loads you can simply copy and past the tracks into the new project. Can't say I've ever run into this problem on any other DAW but it seems to get reported on both the PC and Mac side of Cubase.
> 
> Chris



I've never seen this behavior in 15 years using Cubase. I always assume some sort of wonkiness or incompatibility with a specific plug-in within the template. This is generally confirmed if blank templates and earlier templates load with no problems.


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## José Herring (Mar 9, 2012)

antoniopandrade @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> I work mainly with DP7.24 and I've recently purchased Cubase for Mac. I'm really liking what I'm seeing so far, with a couple of exceptions (not being able to name VST instruments that go in the VST instruments rack can make things get confusing in big templates). But I've come across something that can be a showstopper. I was halfway across building my template when I had to stop to work on a project on DP. Coming back to Cubase the next day, my template project simply wouldn't load. It would crash when loading the instrument outputs. I've heard of some people having similar troubles (projects being corrupted out of nowhere, simply not opening). Is there anyway to export the midi info/track info from these projects? And is there something I might be doing wrong here? I'm really interested in learning this software!



Are you running 32bit or 64bit? I've only seen this happen when you hit the ram limit in Cubase 32bit. But, just as a normal course of events this has never happened. Also, could be that you have a flaky plugin somewhere.


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## Daniel (Mar 9, 2012)

PC & Cubase ---> top DAW & stable

Best,


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## antoniopandrade (Mar 9, 2012)

josejherring @ Fri Mar 09 said:


> antoniopandrade @ Fri Mar 09 said:
> 
> 
> > I work mainly with DP7.24 and I've recently purchased Cubase for Mac. I'm really liking what I'm seeing so far, with a couple of exceptions (not being able to name VST instruments that go in the VST instruments rack can make things get confusing in big templates). But I've come across something that can be a showstopper. I was halfway across building my template when I had to stop to work on a project on DP. Coming back to Cubase the next day, my template project simply wouldn't load. It would crash when loading the instrument outputs. I've heard of some people having similar troubles (projects being corrupted out of nowhere, simply not opening). Is there anyway to export the midi info/track info from these projects? And is there something I might be doing wrong here? I'm really interested in learning this software!
> ...



32-bit. Yeah, maybe, I have a couple of plug-ins that I never used in .vst or .vst3 format, so maybe i'll have to go through the process of disabling them uno by uno...


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## antoniopandrade (Mar 9, 2012)

And to reply to NYComposer and Dragonwind. Yes, if I do not activate it, it loads. It could be something to do with Automap. It wreaked all sorts of havoc when I wrapped my vst plugs...


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## Peter Alexander (Mar 10, 2012)

Patrick de Caumette @ Thu Mar 08 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Thu Mar 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Additionally, for Nuendo, a separate plugin is needed for sequencing.
> ...



Sorry for the delay, Pat!
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/nuendo/nek.html


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## Daryl (Mar 10, 2012)

Peter Alexander @ Sat Mar 10 said:


> Patrick de Caumette @ Thu Mar 08 said:
> 
> 
> > Peter Alexander @ Thu Mar 08 said:
> ...


1) It's a not a plugin, it's an extra licence, a bit like the Toolkit for Pro Tools
2) Sequencing works just fine without it. It just gives you a few synths, the score editor and some drum thing.
3) The NEK will be gone very shortly, and normal service will be resumed. :wink: 

For actual work, nobody actually notices whether or not they have the NEK, unless they want to access the specific features, so it's nothing like a plugin.

D


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## Peter Alexander (Mar 10, 2012)

Daryl @ Sat Mar 10 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Sat Mar 10 said:
> 
> 
> > Patrick de Caumette @ Thu Mar 08 said:
> ...



Thanks for the correction!



~o)


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## vlab (Mar 25, 2012)

Hi Ned!

since you're coming from Logic pro, you should definitely consider Sonar X1d seriously, 

I work with both daily, and know lots about cubase and all too..

Sonar has some nice qualities of Logic

- everything in 1 window, no floating windows, clicking around everywhere a-la-cubase..
- it also has a very similar layout: browser, inspector, dockable items...
- has lots of MIDI tools (matrix sequencer, step sequencer, powerful pianoroll)
- mixing/bussing is unlimited, (you can bounce/freeze AUX/buss/send tracks for example)
- better track management than Logic (no AUX tracks, better track folders, track hiding, 
- the cheaper studio edition will do everything you need, and then some, 
- no stupid dongle...
- ridiculously fast workflow, very keyboard centric, I'd say I could never be as fast in logic as I'm in Sonar, 
- Sonar eats less CPU than Cubase (but more RAM), from what I experienced, 

on the minus side (mostly not Cakewalk is to blame here), and most applies to Cubase as well

- poor firewire audio (if your're using DSP or firewire audio) (compared to OSX)
firewire drivers have been re-written for windows 7, and it has some flaws with audio..
- no quicktime in x64 host (we'd blame apple for that I guess...)
- no 32bit rewire in x64 host (same in OSX?) (x64 ok)
- the bit bridger is not as good as the Logic one (though Jbridge 64bit wrapper works wonder, and build-in support for it).. it's something like a local version of FX teleport.

scoring to picture on windows works ok, obviously, but it's not as simple as OSX, there will be some trial and error to convert your videos to a format your DAW will tolerate best,
which is not an issue I ever had with logic yet. YMMV but you'll find a working solution for sure, Sonar supports firewire video if you have that hardware

Hope that helps ! 

V


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## dcoscina (Mar 26, 2012)

I've worked with all Daws and for film scoring DP is the best. But don't ask me. Ask Don Davis, Danny Elfman's, Elliot Goldenthal, Michael Giacchino, Alexandre Desplat, Dario Marionelli, and a ton of other film composers. Not sure who uses Sonar. And it's notation editor is a bloody joke.


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## flashman (Mar 27, 2012)

On a PC? Cubase is a no brainer really. I wouldn't touch DP with a barge poll until it has proven it's worth on a PC, and I am a 20 year DP user! Remember they still haven't implemented 64bit on a mac until the next upgrade so they have been getting further and further behind the others. 

Also, working with other composer who use Logic, they find the transition to Cubase a lot easier than to DP as the user interface is not that different.


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## chimuelo (Mar 27, 2012)

It's great going from one plug in to another or switching DAWs around getting a new synth every week.
Great way to avoid getting anything done, blame it on the software, so now you can start over, get slower as you learn just to find out there;s something else that chaps your ass.
I tired quickly from this nonsense and use 3 different DAW and multitrack apps. One for MIDI, one for audio and then the lowly little Reaper which is just a great playback/host that never crashes.
You;d think after 20+ years these expert software engineers would have their shit together, and actually they do, but their expertise is at making apps that just must keep getting upgraded and created revenue every year,
I call it the Windows Syndrome and refuse to play by their rules anymore.
Reaper will even host live instruments, whil playing back audio/video tracks w/o a hiccup, but their MIDI is so bad, and I hope it stays unattended too. For some readon it just won;t crash, probabkly becsue oits a few MBs only.
Whats cool is all audio can be recorded at 48bit Integer/96k which I like better thatn 24bit/96k. MIDI is fast and easy, transfer session to Reaper and add any video..............voila. The biggest hassle is waiting for the transfer.
By years end I will be using an iPad with OSC and MIDI parallel on Reaper while Spubase and ProFools are still gaggin from poor code,...
Tragic and Ablton Barely Live are just as bad as FruityPoops too....


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