# Top 10 Cubase Features New to a Logic X Composer



## Breitenbach (Aug 2, 2018)

My first DAW, as a teen making awful pop songs, was garage band, then Logic was the obvious next step. I used it for many years on several films, other music projects, and voice over production. It’s an amazing DAW, and if I need to write anything super fast form a blank session I still use it. Also, the stock plugins are fabulous, and I still prefer it for live tracking and audio editing.

However, last year I was convinced by a fellow composer to give Cubase a try, and I’m glad I did. When I first moved over, I made a list of gripes, and posted them here. Some of which you folks helped me with (thank you!), some of which were fixed in Cubase 9.5 (automation curves), others I fixed by using third party software (video slave), and a few others I’m still dying for Steinberg to add (key signature track, SCROLL ZOOMING!!!).

Anyway, I promised a year ago I’d post my top Cubase features, so here it is. For Cubase veterans, this will probably won’t be helpful at all. In fact, you’ll laugh that these features seem new to me, but it might be helpful for anyone trying to decide whether to give Cubase a try.

—

*10. VST Rack*

Just something small and simple, but with a big template using VEP- it’s extremely helpful to just have the few VST plugins I have quickly and easily accessible when trouble shooting network issues or making new outputs.

*https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z_WNMVF_6_qxq4paQd71ewS5ZYanPucS/view?usp=sharing (IMAGE)*

*9.Toggle Time-base*

I have a love hate relationship with this feature because I’ve nearly ruined a couple movies with my lack of understanding of it. My understanding is that there is nothing like this in Logic. I don’t completely understand it still, and I’d love to know what other people do with it. My main use is this: If I have an instrument that is processor heavy playing during a passage with lots of tempo changes it creates lots of clicks and pops (I’m looking at you Stephenson Steam Band), I just toggle that instrument from music to linear and the clicks and pops vanish instantly. My understanding is that the instrument is no longer following the tempo curves. It’s playing independently, so its processing needs are significantly less. When this used to happen overloading happened in Logic, I’d have to print some of these processing heavy pads in flat tempo areas and slide the audio files into place. I don’t have to worry about that anymore! Please educate me more on this feature.

*https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DTeB4mFPJWUXQfrhYt9LM7Wba1z2ySdx/view?usp=sharing (IMAGE)*

*8. Key Commands Galore*

No contest here. Cubase has way more key commands stock than Logic. Is more always better?… no, but in this case it is! Attached is a picture just of the stock midi editing key commands in Logic 10.4.1 and Cubase 9.5.0. I know Logic has MIDI environment, which is nice, but I’m talking about plain and simple midi editing key commands. Logic having no key command for something like “fixed lengths” or “fixed velocities” is inexcusable. This is just the tip of the ice berg for my number 1 lower down the page.

*IMAGE*

*7. Exporting Groups & Multi-Tracks*

Another feature I could not live without. Routing in Cubase is simple, and if you have a friend and mentor that helps you set everything up properly like I did, you can give beautiful printing groups. You can check what you want to print including FX channels. I know something similar is possible in logic, but this is so much simpler and eloquent. It totally takes the stress out of printing and delivering dry stems with separate reverbs.

*IMAGE*

*6. Time Warp*

Now granted, I never completely figured out an optimal way to tempo map in Logic, even after several years of trying, but no matter what method I tried, I found it to be clunky. The time warp tool is incredibly easy to use. It’s so intuitive and precise that I never want to tempo map in Logic again.

*https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fvcSHLkaIcSdXwvwEn0i55gAa_EDK8nD/view?usp=sharing (IMAGE)*

*5. Visibility*

There’s nothing like this in Logic at all. Basically in logic, you can toggle the “H” button on each track to hide it. This whole visibility panel in Cubase is incredible. I use it constantly. When working with a big template, you don’t want to see all tracks all the time. Being able to reduce 600 tracks down to just the 30 your using for a cue is invaluable. I have the different visibility toggles set to buttons on an external device, so if I just want to see data between locators- hit the button and bam. That same operation in Logic would have taken several minutes compared to about 1 second in Cubase.



*4. Find Track/Channel*

No explanation needed here, but I can’t tell you how long I dreamed of something like this in Logic. The first time I saw my fellow composer do this, I about fell on the floor. I’ve wasted hours of my life digging through sessions without this feature. This is such a simple concept too. I just searched the web again, and it still doesn’t exist in Logic. Why!? When you have a large template, this is mandatory.



*3. Intuitive MIDI editing*

If I have to midi edit in Logic now, I get frustrated. There are a lot of similarities on the surface between the two DAWS midi editors. However, try velocity editing in cubase just once and you’ll see how superior it is. The nodes that allow you to “scale vertically”, “tilt left/right”, and “scale around absolute center” are incredibly useful, fast, and easy. Not to mention, all of those editing features are available on other controller lanes too, not just velocity. Logic has something similar to the line and pencil tool functionally, but they don’t work nearly as easily as the same features in cubase. Once I paired these features Cubase with C-Brains on an iPad, I found I could edit midi much faster and far more efficiently than in Logic.



*2. Folders, Folders, Folders, Folders, Folders*

In Logic X you can make 1 folder, and within that you can make 1 summing stack (special kind of folder). That’s 2 levels of folder… that’s it… It has infuriated me for years. I don’t have a huge template, like 600ish tracks, but this has always been frustrating. In Cubase you can go nuts with folders. When my template is fully compressed there are just six lovely folders, but then I can open them to reveal organized sections i.e. (Strings>Traditional>Violin 1>Violin 1 Long). If Logic would have added this the many times I requested it over the years, I may have stayed committed to Logic. Organization is huge to me, and Cubase wins this one big time.



*1. Logical Editors & Macros*

This alone makes Cubase worth it. Is there a key command you want that isn’t in the presets? Easy, just make it yourself. Holy cow this blew my mind! Basically, if you can dream an operation in Cubase, you can custom design it using the Logical Editors and Macros. You are only limited by your imagination. The logical editors are also easy to use. I do actually have a background in programming, but it wasn’t necessary. I’ve made some pretty cool custom operations using logical editors and macros. It’s an empowering experience. I love Logic X, but this feature puts Logic to shame.



—

I’m not trying to rag on Logic, just like I wasn’t trying to rag on Cubase in my last post. There are still things in Cubase I don’t like… trust me, but I want to hear about the cool features that the rest of you use that I may not know about. Also, Logic users, if there’s something in Logic I am mis-representing or not understanding, please let me know!


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 2, 2018)

Hey! Great post. Not at all starting a DAW war, but when you return to Logic for the odd job..
I think point 5 has been addressed with "Hide Groups" and point 6 might have been addressed with the smart tempo tools, both introduced with a recent Logic update. Although that last one is more aimed at audio. YMMV etc etc, but might be useful info if you continue to switch between DAWs.

Enjoy your new home!
A


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## Breitenbach (Aug 2, 2018)

Alex Fraser said:


> Hey! Great post. Not at all starting a DAW war, but when you return to Logic for the odd job..
> I think point 5 has been addressed with "Hide Groups" and point 6 might have been addressed with the smart tempo tools, both introduced with a recent Logic update. Although that last one is more aimed at audio. YMMV etc etc, but might be useful info if you continue to switch between DAWs.
> 
> Enjoy your new home!
> A



Thanks so much Alex! Interesting, I'll look in to hide groups. I'm sure lots of other Logic users smarter than I am have figured out things that I haven't. I've actually found smart tempo tools to be a bit of a hinderance. I've messed up a few songs trying to get it to work properly.


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## R. Soul (Aug 2, 2018)

Breitenbach said:


> *7. Exporting Groups & Multi-Tracks*
> 
> Another feature I could not live without. Routing in Cubase is simple, and if you have a friend and mentor that helps you set everything up properly like I did, you can give beautiful printing groups. You can check what you want to print including FX channels. I know something similar is possible in logic, but this is so much simpler and eloquent. It totally takes the stress out of printing and delivering dry stems with separate reverbs.
> 
> *IMAGE*


Great post.

Unless I've misunderstood exporting groups, I don't see how you'd export for example 'Keys', which might contain both a hall reverb and room reverb send, without other tracks' send be included in the export?

I basically always end up muting all groups apart from the one I'm exporting. And exporting 1 group at a time, which takes forever.

It makes sense if every group has it's own send but when making Pop or Rock for example, that doesn't really work, as you might want parts of a group (eg. drums) up close and other parts further away.

Do you know if there's an easier and faster way to do this?


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## Breitenbach (Aug 2, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> Great post.
> 
> Unless I've misunderstood exporting groups, I don't see how you'd export for example 'Keys', which might contain both a hall reverb and room reverb send, without other tracks' send be included in the export?
> 
> ...



Hey R. Soul, so for this to work, the routing has to be setup right. I had a friend a lot smarter than I am give me routing tips, so I'm just regurgitating that info here.

For me, I’m doing orchestral film music, so I have 2 reverb sends for every group. I’ve attached a simplified picture of routing for one of my groups.

——
Picture explanation:

My piccolo, flute, clarinet, and oboe are going to 3 places:
-Woodwinds High Group
-WW Verb Front
-WW Verb Rear

Then the two reverb sends are going into the high group. (these reverbs are wet signal only, don’t want to duplicate any dry signal here, otherwise it makes it louder through the group output). This makes it so the dry signal and the verbs are routing in separately.

Then finally the whole woodwinds group is sent out the main output. This gives me the ability to print the woodwinds high group wet, or I can print just the reverbs individually. Then if I want to print the woodwind group dry, I can just bypass or mute the two reverb sends.

——

If you wanted to do the same in your case for a pop/rock template, you’d have to have a couple different reverbs for each group. So groups could be drums, guitars, keys, vocals, et., and then two reverbs for each of them (i.e. guitar verb hall, guitar verb room, drum verb hall, drum verb room, etc.), then the respective reverbs are routed back in through your groups. That way you can print your groups wet, fx channels separately or dry by bypassing/muting verbs.Is that helpful?


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## R. Soul (Aug 2, 2018)

Breitenbach said:


> Hey R. Soul, so for this to work, the routing has to be setup right. I had a friend a lot smarter than I am give me routing tips, so I'm just regurgitating that info here.
> 
> For me, I’m doing orchestral film music, so I have 2 reverb sends for every group. I’ve attached a simplified picture of routing for one of my groups.
> 
> ...


I might give that a try.
My only issue is, that I would have to use a lot more reverbs than I do now, and therefore a lot more resources. Unfortunately CPU is something my projects can consume a lot of, when you often end up with 4+ fx on each track. 
But it would be a great time saver, if I was able to do a Batch export instead of the very time consuming way I'm doing it now.


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## shawnsingh (Aug 2, 2018)

Breitenbach said:


> *9.Toggle Time-base*
> 
> I have a love hate relationship with this feature because I’ve nearly ruined a couple movies with my lack of understanding of it. My understanding is that there is nothing like this in Logic. I don’t completely understand it still, and I’d love to know what other people do with it. My main use is this: If I have an instrument that is processor heavy playing during a passage with lots of tempo changes it creates lots of clicks and pops (I’m looking at you Stephenson Steam Band), I just toggle that instrument from music to linear and the clicks and pops vanish instantly. My understanding is that the instrument is no longer following the tempo curves. It’s playing independently, so its processing needs are significantly less. When this used to happen overloading happened in Logic, I’d have to print some of these processing heavy pads in flat tempo areas and slide the audio files into place. I don’t have to worry about that anymore! Please educate me more on this feature.




Interesting how time base fixes your issue, I can't argue with that =) Is your issue that you reached CPU limits? or was the virtual instrument just not handling tempo changes gracefully?

If it's just CPU problems, there's a feature in Cubase called "render in place" - it allows you to print selected parts to a new audio track, but you don't have to do extra work to reposition the audio or to load the rendered audio into an empty place on a track. It just plops the audio version of what you had selected into a new audio track. It does just fine with preexisting tempo changes, though once it's rendered, it wouldn't follow new tempo changes. Options to configure the feature are really nice, too - render each selected part to separate audio tracks or to one combined track, configure the rendered audio to use the entire FX chain all the way to master output, or to skip some of the FX chain, and you can configure it to automatically mute (or not) the original parts that are being rendered.

This feature quite literally liberated me. I initially used it since I was running out of CPU in a few places. But then I gradually realized what I was missing without it. I was stopping myself from making mixer changes that I knew would help make my songs better, because I only wanted to affect a small part of a track and not mess up the rest of the track. But automation in that case is painful too - setting up dozen of parameters just to have a different mix snapshot for one brief part of the entire track is too much work. Or if I had to modify many tracks with the same mixing decisions, even less pleasant. "Render in Place" filled this hole nicely - it's a quick and easy way to group arbitrary parts into a new audio track so that I can tweak them without messing up anything else.


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## dgburns (Aug 2, 2018)

Some thoughts that crossed my mind-

In Logic you can use ‘hide unused tracks’ which is kinda tha same as Cubase’s show tracks with data.

Logic’s transformer can set notes to fixed length and/or velocity and is remotely keystroke accessible. It can do other things like scale cc data and more.

Logic allows for objects to populate the environment but not populate the arrange. No other app allows this. You can also have the same object on multiple arrange tracks. Same object, not a duplicate. I see this as a feature, and no other daw does this. The topmost arrange track of the same object has play priority, so you can use it to comp stuff without cutting.

The old school Logic folder can be nested, but it can also be that stuff in a folder is only in that folder, which means that it’s not visible at the top level when all folders are open. This can get confusing, but it’s really slick when you leverage this to keep your arrange area neat and clean.

Logic has an export selected tracks option. Works well, but I wish it allowed to export from aux objects. Cubase is better in this regard.

Logic’s way of dealing with upscaling tracks from mono to n channels is really useful. You can make a mono channel stereo by slapping up a mono to stereo plugin. You can also go from mono to 5.1. The one plugin instance allows you to set up how you control all the channels, individually or controlled by one set of controls for all channels. Very elegant. In Cubase, if you want to go from mono to surround, you need to either put a mono audio file unto a surround track, or bus it to one. I really don’t care for the way Cubase deals with stereo plugins on surround tracks. you need to slap up three stereo plugs to get all channels going. Forget about compresser plugins unless they are surround to begin with, no way to link the channels. So I guess most guys working in surround are mixing in Protools.

just some thoughts


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## Vik (Aug 2, 2018)

There are many threads comparing Logic and Cubase out there, and your post is interesting - but I'm not sure if the comparison is quite fair. I totally agree with those who say that Logic has been lagging behind in terms of development for MIDI composers for many years (there are some improvements in 10.4.*), but what you wrote here, for instance isn't entirely correct:


Breitenbach said:


> In Logic X you can make 1 folder, and within that you can make 1 summing stack (special kind of folder). That’s 2 levels of folder… that’s it…


You could have folders in folders in folders since version 1 I think, and you don't need a summing stack for that.

Here are, btw, some of the other threads comparing the two, in case you are interested:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...d-cubase-for-use-with-sample-libraries.61884/
https://vi-control.net/community/th...ers-any-issues-share-experiences.59354/page-2
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mus...tter-composing-logic-better-song-writing.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/mus...would-i-miss-if-i-ditched-logic-cubase-2.html

Regarding key commands - how many key commands does Cubase actually have?
Re "I never completely figured out an optimal way to tempo map in Logic". IMO the Beat Mapping function in Logic is excellent, and easy to use.

Re. this:
"“scale vertically”, “tilt left/right”, and “scale around absolute center” are incredibly useful, fast, and easy. Not to mention, all of those editing features are available on other controller lanes too, not just velocity."
Sounds interesting. I have Cubase actually, but there has been too many things I miss from Logic for me to really get started learning/using it properly.

And, if I'm not mistaken, Cubase's Logical Editor is a copy of Logic's good old Transform window.... but Logic needs a built in and super easy way way to create macros and assign key commands to them - AND more MIDI/composing related key commands.


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## Vik (Aug 2, 2018)

dgburns said:


> Logic has an export selected tracks option


Since Logic doesn't have something similar to the Sibelius Ideas Hub for user ideas, I really miss a way to select a few tracks in Logic and save them as a new project, as a workaround. Are you saying that this is possible?

ETA: regarding the top 10 list above, the thing I miss the most in Logic - which Cubase has - is a way to Freeze and disable tracks (and also just disable them without freezing). That would free up a lot of sample memory (and other memory); important for those who need more than 32 gb. Also great because even after the firmware update, the new MBPs can't be cooled down enough to using their own potential fully.

Disabling tracks is also an important function for those who work with many sample libraries and who want to be based around a MacBook Pro. It's great that they now come in 32 gb versions, but it is overpriced (especially for some of us Europeans who has seen a massive dollar rate rise), if you have hundreds of gigabytes of sample libraries, 32 isn't enough either. In such cases, track disabling would be very handy.


And... this image isn't really fair, is it?

Logic has a lot more MIDI related key commands than those listed as piano roll key commands. Ideally, as many KCs as possible be shoud the same for all editors, so seeing how many key commands that are specific for a certain window doesn't necessarily tell much.

You can, btw, assign key commands to functions in the Transform ("Logical Editor") window in Logic (up to 30) - from the KC window. 

It's still hard to understand why basic KCs are still missing in Logic - like KCs to give a note a specific length. Or to add a note a certain diatonic (within the current scale) interval above the selected note(s). Or a simple KC which inserts a note at the current position. Or some of the KCs discussed in the threads I linked to.


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## Akarin (Aug 3, 2018)

I've also moved from Logic to Cubase some time ago and the two features that would prevent me to go back to Logic are "disable track" (800ish disabled tracks template in Cubase) and the Chord Track.


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## luke_7 (Aug 3, 2018)

dgburns said:


> Some thoughts that crossed my mind-
> 
> In Logic you can use ‘hide unused tracks’ which is kinda tha same as Cubase’s show tracks with data.
> 
> ...



Logic can export from aux.


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## dgburns (Aug 3, 2018)

luke_7 said:


> Logic can export from aux.



If the aux object is part of a multiout instrument, ie output 3-4 of an instrument, then yes, it will output audio when exporting, and also recieve midi as an instrument object would.

But I can’t get any love trying to export from an aux if it’s an fx return being fed from a bus. I seem to have to bus that aux to an audio track and activate the input monitor, THEN I can output the sound. Freakin bummer. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but the LUG forum had a discussion about this and that’s what I read there as well. Show me the error of my ways, I’d be delighted to be be wrong


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## dgburns (Aug 3, 2018)

Vik said:


> Since Logic doesn't have something similar to the Sibelius Ideas Hub for user ideas, I really miss a way to select a few tracks in Logic and save them as a new project, as a workaround. Are you saying that this is possible?
> 
> ETA: regarding the top 10 list above, the thing I miss the most in Logic - which Cubase has - is a way to Freeze and disable tracks (and also just disable them without freezing). That would free up a lot of sample memory (and other memory); important for those who need more than 32 gb. Also great because even after the firmware update, the new MBPs can't be cooled down enough to using their own potential fully.



You can send a few tracks to a new project by either ‘export selected tracks’, then create a new project and import those.

You could also open both the original project and the new one, then copy/paste the audio from the older project to the newer one.

You could also just do a track import from the media window on the right hand side. Create a new project, then import the sync settings from the older session FIRST, then import the global settings and the audio tracks from the media bay on the right hand side.

As far as track disable, the best I can come up with is to turn off the track. But I’m not sure this reduces memory.

Two incredibly powerfull apps that have cool features. Truth be told, I just love the way Cubase looks.


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## InLight-Tone (Aug 3, 2018)

Cubase's strength is definitely in building & managing large templates which I have since moved away from. Funny thing is, I'm pining for Logic because of that...


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 3, 2018)

My biggest issue still is and likely will always be that Cubase just does not perform as well as Logic Pro X on Apple systems. Again and again I have tested this and have the exact same results.

I would not mind sticking with Windows if setting up MIDI Ports was as simple as in macOS, since I have two iPads


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## Breitenbach (Aug 3, 2018)

shawnsingh said:


> Interesting how time base fixes your issue, I can't argue with that =) Is your issue that you reached CPU limits? or was the virtual instrument just not handling tempo changes gracefully?
> 
> If it's just CPU problems, there's a feature in Cubase called "render in place" - it allows you to print selected parts to a new audio track, but you don't have to do extra work to reposition the audio or to load the rendered audio into an empty place on a track. It just plops the audio version of what you had selected into a new audio track. It does just fine with preexisting tempo changes, though once it's rendered, it wouldn't follow new tempo changes. Options to configure the feature are really nice, too - render each selected part to separate audio tracks or to one combined track, configure the rendered audio to use the entire FX chain all the way to master output, or to skip some of the FX chain, and you can configure it to automatically mute (or not) the original parts that are being rendered.
> 
> This feature quite literally liberated me. I initially used it since I was running out of CPU in a few places. But then I gradually realized what I was missing without it. I was stopping myself from making mixer changes that I knew would help make my songs better, because I only wanted to affect a small part of a track and not mess up the rest of the track. But automation in that case is painful too - setting up dozen of parameters just to have a different mix snapshot for one brief part of the entire track is too much work. Or if I had to modify many tracks with the same mixing decisions, even less pleasant. "Render in Place" filled this hole nicely - it's a quick and easy way to group arbitrary parts into a new audio track so that I can tweak them without messing up anything else.



Wow interesting! Yeah, Logic actually has a "bounce in place" aka "render in place" feature too. I've never completely understood why, but even when I'm just trying to render in place a single track, clicks and pops would still occur at tempo changes. I haven't experimented with that in Cubase, so I'm not sure if the same thing would happen. 

I have had to assume that it's a CPU issue because it's worst when working with ramping tempos. With the tempo data changing literally on every frame, some of these samples seem to self destruct when they are in music mode.


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## Breitenbach (Aug 3, 2018)

dgburns said:


> Some thoughts that crossed my mind-
> 
> In Logic you can use ‘hide unused tracks’ which is kinda tha same as Cubase’s show tracks with data.
> 
> ...



Hey wow this is good stuff!!! I had no idea there was a way to have keystrokes alter those midi attributes. 

What do you mean when you say "Logic allows for objects to populate the environment but not populate the arrange". I guess I'm greener in Logic than I thought. 

I'd love to see a screen shot of what you've figured out with folder nesting because I've struggled with that for a long time.


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## Breitenbach (Aug 3, 2018)

Vik said:


> There are many threads comparing Logic and Cubase out there, and your post is interesting - but I'm not sure if the comparison is quite fair. I totally agree with those who say that Logic has been lagging behind in terms of development for MIDI composers for many years (there are some improvements in 10.4.*), but what you wrote here, for instance isn't entirely correct:
> 
> You could have folders in folders in folders since version 1 I think, and you don't need a summing stack for that.
> 
> ...



I should probably apologize for some of the tone I used in this post sounding very "versus". I think I just got enthusiast because I discovered things in Cubase that solved problems I had in Logic. I actually LOVE Logic, and I don't think I'll ever leave it completely. It still has features that Cubase doesn't. 

And man... this folder thing. You're the second person to say that you can nest folders, but I've never figured it out. I researched it a LOT! If you can, would you mind posting a screen shot of nested folders. I've only ever managed to have. Parent Folder>Summing Stack>Instrument/Audio/MIDI track.

Thanks for the other thread references!


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## Breitenbach (Aug 3, 2018)

Vik said:


> Since Logic doesn't have something similar to the Sibelius Ideas Hub for user ideas, I really miss a way to select a few tracks in Logic and save them as a new project, as a workaround. Are you saying that this is possible?
> 
> ETA: regarding the top 10 list above, the thing I miss the most in Logic - which Cubase has - is a way to Freeze and disable tracks (and also just disable them without freezing). That would free up a lot of sample memory (and other memory); important for those who need more than 32 gb. Also great because even after the firmware update, the new MBPs can't be cooled down enough to using their own potential fully.
> 
> ...




First, yes your'e right on the image. There are a lot more MIDI key commands in Logic than what is shown in that screen shot. The midi environments key commands alone are more than the basic Cubase key commands. However, I wanted to mainly focus on the basic editor/piano roll commands. There are certain very basic repetitive MIDI editing operations that really should be stock key commands in all DAWS IMHO. My point should have been less pointed at sheer number, and more directed toward Cubase having these basic operations already setup. My mistake for sure. I think things like: fixed note length, quantize ends, fixed velocity, etc. would be awesome to have as stock key commands in Logic.

And definitely, the freezing/disable is an awesome feature! It wasn't part of my regular workflow, but it's a fantastic feature to have when sessions start becoming unwieldy processor hogs.


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## Breitenbach (Aug 3, 2018)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> My biggest issue still is and likely will always be that Cubase just does not perform as well as Logic Pro X on Apple systems. Again and again I have tested this and have the exact same results.
> 
> I would not mind sticking with Windows if setting up MIDI Ports was as simple as in macOS, since I have two iPads



Wow fascinating! Do you have the data available on this? 

It makes sense that Logic would be the best optimized DAW for Apple computers, but I'm curious how much better it is. 

Also, perhaps you are the person to answer my long standing question... do the bars on the CPU monitor in Logic really corresponds to individual Cores, or did I make that up in my head? If they are, Logic does do a great job of distributing processing across cores.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Aug 3, 2018)

Breitenbach said:


> Wow fascinating! Do you have the data available on this?
> 
> It makes sense that Logic would be the best optimized DAW for Apple computers, but I'm curious how much better it is.
> 
> Also, perhaps you are the person to answer my long standing question... do the bars on the CPU monitor in Logic really corresponds to individual Cores, or did I make that up in my head? If they are, Logic does do a great job of distributing processing across cores.


https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123595
A little info I found on your question regarding core distribution 

And


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## Vik (Aug 3, 2018)

dgburns said:


> You can send a few tracks to a new project by either ‘export selected tracks’, then create a new project and import those.


Yes, like audio or MIDI files, but I'm talking about (for instance if you work on one song and get an ide for a new one) selecting a few audio and or MIDI/VI tracks and save them as a new project with one click. I miss that often.

"As far as track disable, the best I can come up with is to turn off the track. But I’m not sure this reduces memory." It doesn't reduce memory, neither sample memory or Kontakt memory. Cubase's Disable does this. 


Breitenbach said:


> fixed note length, quantize ends, fixed velocity, etc. would be awesome to have as stock key commands in Logic.


Assign key commands to these then:









Breitenbach said:


> And definitely, the freezing/disable is an awesome feature! It wasn't part of my regular workflow, but it's a fantastic feature to have


We are many who think that this would be great to have in Logic!


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## Vik (Aug 3, 2018)

Vik said:


> Assign key commands to these then


Using these key commands:





The exception is KCs for note lengths. Logic should IMO have this without needing to make them up for each length in Transform and then assign LC to these presets. There should be other ways to change note lengths as well, eg by selecting a note/notes and clicking on a symbol for eg 1/16 note with a modifier.


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## Vik (Aug 3, 2018)

Breitenbach said:


> do the bars on the CPU monitor in Logic really corresponds to individual Cores, or did I make that up in my head?


Individual threads, so in my 12-core, I have 24 bars in the CPU monitor.


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## Breitenbach (Aug 3, 2018)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123595
> A little info I found on your question regarding core distribution
> 
> And



Thanks for these resources! Man that Windows/Mac comparison is a little depressing.


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## Breitenbach (Aug 3, 2018)

Vik said:


> Yes, like audio or MIDI files, but I'm talking about (for instance if you work on one song and get an ide for a new one) selecting a few audio and or MIDI/VI tracks and save them as a new project with one click. I miss that often.
> 
> "As far as track disable, the best I can come up with is to turn off the track. But I’m not sure this reduces memory." It doesn't reduce memory, neither sample memory or Kontakt memory. Cubase's Disable does this.
> 
> ...



Wow fantastic! I didn't know this was possible. I've always just had to manually pop open that editor from the drop down menu, chose the operations, then apply it. I didn't realize those could be made in to key commands. I'm going to do this! Great information. One key stroke vs. multi-steps. Hopefully Logic will make more comprehensive MIDI editing key commands default next update.


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## samphony (Aug 3, 2018)

Vik said:


> There are many threads comparing Logic and Cubase out there, and your post is interesting - but I'm not sure if the comparison is quite fair. I totally agree with those who say that Logic has been lagging behind in terms of development for MIDI composers for many years (there are some improvements in 10.4.*), but what you wrote here, for instance isn't entirely correct:
> 
> You could have folders in folders in folders since version 1 I think, and you don't need a summing stack for that.
> 
> ...



You can create macros with the old and well established OS addons or the iPad based tools like metagrid or lemur/Touch osc. Elgato streamdeck allows macros too. With macOS 10.14 you might be able to use Siri commands which is the workflow app known from iOS on the Mac.


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## samphony (Aug 3, 2018)

dgburns said:


> But I can’t get any love trying to export from an aux if it’s an fx return being fed from a bus. I seem to have to bus that aux to an audio track and activate the input monitor, THEN I can output the sound. Freakin bummer. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but the LUG forum had a discussion about this and that’s what I read there as well. Show me the error of my ways, I’d be delighted to be be wrong


Create a track in the tracks view for that AUX. then use the pencil or control click into the track lane of that aux and create an empty midi region. Now try to bounce that region or export with other tracks.


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## S.M Hassani (Aug 3, 2018)

Here's a video demonstrating LPX AUX bounces:



And if you need even more key commands: (Works for most MacOS Apps including ProTools)



All about Freezing tracks in LPX:


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## Vik (Aug 4, 2018)

S.M Hassani said:


> nd if you need even more key commands: (Works for most MacOS Apps including ProTools)


Thanks for sharing that - that's something i didn't know. But the real problem in Logic isn't lack of key commands, but lack of commands... because many of the things I miss don't exist as menu commands either.

Besides - why on earth is there no simple way to combine key commands in the key commands window? I know there are ways to make macros, and that Transform can be useful and all that. But I've had a very high number of situations where I'm either working on getting down an idea or tweaking one, where I have ended up looking for how to do things instead. And once you need to go in and tweak the workflow instead of tweaking your ideas - at least for me - the creativity flow is easily broken. 

Music is a right brain-half thing (unless you're left handed), and working with macros and importing stuff, googling for solutions or sending feedback to Apple about missing functionality is a left brain-half thing.

My guess is that there's no people inside the developer team who works with music in ways where the need for the typical composing related key commands we often talk about here are needed - so if they see such a suggestion from Logic's feedback feed, they don't see why it is important. That's maybe why it took Apple 10 years more than Steinberg to implement an Expression Maps equivalent, and that's why something as basic (extremely basic, I'd say) as implementing a KC for forcing a note that you have selected to become, say, a 1/16 note doesn't exist after soon 30 years of development. I've sent feedback to Apple about that three or four times over the years, and nothing has happened.

And while the Transform window was a great idea in the early years - because users somehow could "implement" functions that wasn't already implemented in Logic - the least thing you want to do when being creative is to stop the flow and sort out how to create a software function that Logic doesn't have.

Inspiration is kind of sacred to composers, because it leads to better music. But software tweaking moves the focus into something very different than trying to create some bars of something beautiful. 

Due to Steinberg's increased (over Apple) focus om things like notation (Dorico), Expression Maps and composing related commands, they have more 'composers' in the user base than Apple/Logic, in the traditional definition of composers (os opposed to eg beat maker or even sonf writer). As a result of that, they have gotten more requests for the kind of functions I miss in Logic and implemented some of them.

Apple, OTOH, is more focused on being "democratic", as in 'what most people want' (to buy). So it has more focus on loop based music and 'songwriting'... stuff which implies that one just records chords with guitar or piano/keyboard rather than the more 'composer' oriented way of working.

I think that's why Logic develops the way it does, and actually also to some degree explains why so much commercial music out there still is so.... 'plain', in lack of a better word.


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## Saxer (Aug 4, 2018)

Vik said:


> I think that's why Logic develops the way it does, and actually also to some degree explains why so much commercial music out there still is so.... 'plain', in lack of a better word.


So you seriously think that pop music is more 'plain' today because of some missing controller lanes or missing macros? Logic isn't really a loop based and electronic specialized DAW. Most of the included plugins and sounds are more 'traditional' than in any other DAW. Even the score editor beats Cubase score window by far and also the number of possible key commands. Might change one day if the try to integrate Dorico but that's still far away.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some more midi editing features (though I don't really miss them myself) and macros. I just think Logic isn't a more typical dancefloor/hip hop/songwriter DAW than Cubase at all. There are other examples like Bitwig and Ableton.


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## dgburns (Aug 4, 2018)

samphony said:


> Create a track in the tracks view for that AUX. then use the pencil or control click into the track lane of that aux and create an empty midi region. Now try to bounce that region or export with other tracks.



Ok wow - Thanks for this.


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## dgburns (Aug 4, 2018)

Breitenbach said:


> Hey wow this is good stuff!!! I had no idea there was a way to have keystrokes alter those midi attributes.
> 
> What do you mean when you say "Logic allows for objects to populate the environment but not populate the arrange". I guess I'm greener in Logic than I thought.
> 
> I'd love to see a screen shot of what you've figured out with folder nesting because I've struggled with that for a long time.



Nested folders only works with the ‘old school folder’ objects, obviously not the track stacks. So you can have a folder within a folder (and more). But the difference is that a folder can be any given length, and nested folders can be shorter in length then the encapsulating folder it sits in. I’ve sometimes run into issues where I had ‘too many folders deep’ errors, so it maybe pays to be careful not to go too nuts with the feature.

One aspect of the old school folder is that you can move it up and down the arrange page and screensets will still recall properly into that folder if you saved a screenset to view the contents. You can also have stuff in a folder, nested within another folder, but it’s content is not visible at the topmost level in the arrange. This can get confusing if you’re new to the concept. But it’s a powerfull way to work if you’re comfortable with it. So long as you have a firm grasp of your environment layout. It’s the brains of the whole operation.

In Cubase, DP and Protools, if you remove a track from the arrange page, it’s gone (whatever the term is for the arrange page in those apps). In Logic, that object CAN still live on in the environment. This can also cause alot of housecleaning to be done to remove unused objects, but it can also be really useful if you’re a Logic environment ninja. (there are quite a few here at VI Control). Plus there’s a command to select unused objects anyway in the environment.

So you can have an object in the environment, say audio object 100 which exists but is not present in the arrange. You need to have Logic not automatically manage environment objects however. Why is this useful? Well you could have a single midi object that is cabled to two or more instruments that are in the environment, but you only have the midi object visible in the arrange. More and more we are moving away from the disconnect between the arrange and the environment.

Underused stuff in Logic in the environment? One that is brilliant is the touch tracks. You can grap a whole bunch of midi tracks (better yet, put those in a folder) and fire the sequence off by one single note on your keyboard. Have 20 or more midi sequences you want to play with a la Ableton Live? sure can, on one track payable by midi. But you need all those sequences present in the project. Using the old school folders allows you to have them present but hidden away and muted off.

Another less used feature is to do a ‘split screen’ screenset where you have more then one arrange page open, one above the other and you can see stuff from both. Why do this? maybe one is where you record your audio, the other where you have your midi, or organize librairies by folder. Track stacks have kinda moved us away from this approach, which is decidedly LPX V9 thinking, but it still has its uses (at least for me)

just some thoughts


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## Vik (Aug 4, 2018)

Saxer said:


> So you seriously think that pop music is more 'plain' today because of some missing controller lanes or missing macros?



Not at all... that's not what I'm saying.  Those who make "plain" (still in lack of a better word, and I have nothing against simple, but good songs) probably don't use macros or CC lanes much anyway. But I do believe that if it's easy to create pro sounding music of "type A" in a DAW (or in DAWs in general) and not an equally good set of tools in that DAW to create pro sounding music of Type B, it will be easier for him to create Type A music, and this will increase the chance that he does exactly that. 

"Loop based" vs not loop based, and electronic vs non-electronic both has to do with arranging. I'm mainly thinking of composing. And I'm not (mainly) comparing Logic with other DAWs. I have more or less exclusively used Logic since it was released. 

I am comparing Logic - the way it has developed - with how it could have developed. 

And the topic I'm talking about is that Logic's development, for the last circa 10 years, changed it focus in terms of what kind of development that was given most attention. When Logic X was released there were a few nice improvements (Track Stacks?), but pretty much none of the major wishes from score guys and "normal" composers (vs "chord-playing" composers) which was discussed on Logic Pro Help and other forums where implemented.

Regarding "Most of the included plugins and sounds are more 'traditional' than in any other DAW." 
Logic has gotten more interesting loops, I guess, and also is better for those who prefer the kind of stuff "Drummer" does. But if we shall focus on two main ways of making music, where "A" which is about writing lines instead of playing chords or guitar or synth/keyboard/piano, and also being richer harmonically that what the kind of chords people who don't know much about harmony usually come up with - and so on: 
Logic has mainly focused on making it easer for group B and those who maybe don't know much about composing/harmonies to end up with good results... and not so much on improving the workflow for those who need more composing oriented tools.; group A. 

It has been a lot easier for someone - who either is too lazy to learn something about harmonies and about making great music, or isn't interested enough - to end up with results that sound good and 'pro'. 

But score users and the more harmony-based guys still struggle with some of the old bugs from Logic 1. Simple chords are spelled with wrong accidentals, and notes with four chords are sometimes shown with only three notes in the score editor - and so on. Many functions that would be great to have in Logic haven't been implemented as of 2018 - 25 (more?) years after its release. 


"Even the score editor beats Cubase score window by far and also the number of possible key commands." That's possible, I haven't tried the score editor in Cubase yet. I have tried Dorico, and it is in many ways good - but has another kind of limitations than Logic: for instance, it can't record MIDI, last time i checked it took 9 steps to reassign a key command and so on. But at least: Steinberg "bought" the Sibelius team. So - Avid has Pro Tools and Sibelius, Steinberg has Cubase and Dorico, and Apple has Logic and a long list of 10+ year old wishes that hasn't been implemented.

When Cubase integrates properly with Dorico, it could - at least in theory - become a very good package with a much more Apple-like workflow. But I have no idea whether that's what they are trying to do. But at least - Steinberg as a company is the company who has invested the most in making something new and better for score users in this century. Kudos for that. And it wasn't only lack of macros and missing CC lanes that was troublesome when I, a few years ago, again started to dive into the world of Kontakt libraries. *Some* of that has been improved in Logic 10.4, so maybe there's hope.

To sum it up: the team around Logic decides *what kind of music* they will help users get a better workflow. And - just like with Apple Music - the main focus has been on pop culture. 

Btw, let's rather continue the discussion, if needed (about Logic's potential for improvement) in another thread maybe? Here are some:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...d-cubase-for-use-with-sample-libraries.61884/
https://vi-control.net/community/th...r-at-controlling-ccs-and-articulations.54546/
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/why-doesnt-logic-read-these-css-parameters.60131/
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/top-9-problems-with-cubase-9-from-a-logic-x-user.63728/


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## Breitenbach (Aug 4, 2018)

S.M Hassani said:


> Here's a video demonstrating LPX AUX bounces:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow that additional key command menu in system preferences is a big deal. Not just for Logic, but as an Apple user. Can't wait to take advantage of this. Thanks for the info.


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## Breitenbach (Aug 4, 2018)

Vik said:


> Thanks for sharing that - that's something i didn't know. But the real problem in Logic isn't lack of key commands, but lack of commands... because many of the things I miss don't exist as menu commands either.
> Besides - why on earth is there no simple way to combine key commands in the key commands window? I know there are ways to make macros, and that Transform can be useful an all that. But I've had a very high number of situations where I'm either working on getting down an idea or tweaking one, where I have ended up looking for how to do things instead. And once you need to go in and tweak the workflow instead of tweaking your ideas - at least for me - the creativity flow is easily broken. Music is a right brain half thing (unless you're left handed), and working with macros and importing stuff, googling for solutions or sending feedback to Apple about missing functionality is a left brain half thing.
> 
> My guess is that there's no people inside the developer team who works with music in ways where the need for the typical composing related key commands we often talk about here, so if they see a suggestion about from Logic's feedback feed, they don't see why it is important. That's why it took Apple 10 years more than Steinberg to implement an Expression Maps equivalent, and that's why something as basic (extremely basic, I'd say) that implementing a KC for fording a note that you have selected should become, say, a 1/16 note doesn't exist after soon 30 years of development. I've sent feedback to Apple about that three or four times over the years, and nothing has happened.
> ...



Totally agree with a lot of this!


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## luke_7 (Aug 4, 2018)

dgburns said:


> Ok wow - Thanks for this.



Actually You don’t have to create an empty midi region. You can just export aux track in arrange window. Select aux track in arrange window_File_Export_1Track as Audio File.


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## Living Fossil (Aug 4, 2018)

Breitenbach said:


> I've never completely understood why, but even when I'm just trying to render in place a single track, clicks and pops would still occur at tempo changes.



Logic doesn't produce clicks and pops _per se_ at tempo changes.
Maybe you had some synced delays which usually produce glitches when the tempo changes?


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## dgburns (Aug 4, 2018)

luke_7 said:


> Actually You don’t have to create an empty midi region. You can just export aux track in arrange window. Select aux track in arrange window_File_Export_1Track as Audio File.



Can you confirm this works for you when outputting multiple tracks, as in a mix of audio and aux tracks?


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## S.M Hassani (Aug 5, 2018)

Vik said:


> Using these key commands:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well I made a little service to the LPX community. 

*UPDATED HERE:*

*https://vi-control.net/community/th...ngth-by-key-shortcut-more.73854/#post-4263936*

Here's a Logic Pro 10.3.3 Project with my own Midi Transform settings (Attached)

You can use the Import Settings function to load them into your other projects. You can also make this file a template and go from there. I left some midi notes in there for you to test the functionality.

Make sure you assign them to your choice of key commands so you can apply them instantly within your workflow. I've indicated my shortcuts below.

Do see the included video. (although I forgot to set my nudge value to division)

And The Transforms are:

*Expand Notes:* This command will space selected notes away from each other evenly, while maintaining their length (Unlike the default trim functions) It's an excellent tool if you happen to scale a linear group of notes so much they overlap. (e.g using the Alt+Shift+Mouse drag edge or Arrow keys)

*Collapse Notes:* The opposite of the above command.

I use these key commands: Alt+Command+. (or the > key) to expand | Alt+Command+, (or the < key) to collapse

*Length = 1/xx*: Yes this will finally give you the ability to set note length by rapid key command!
Available in these sizes: 1/1 - 1/2 - 1/4 - 1/8 - 1/16 - 1/32

I use these key commands: Alt+Command+1 = 1/1 | +2=1/2 | +4=1/4 | +5=1/8 | +6=1/16 | +7=1/32

*Duplicate 3rd Up:* Duplicates your notes a Major 3rd Up or 4 semitones in one keystroke!
*Duplicate 5th Up:* Duplicates them a Major 5th Up or 7 semitones
*Duplicate Octave Up:* Duplicates them an octave Up or 12 semitones

I use these key commands: Alt+Command+F12 and F13,F14 respectively (I use the good ol' extended keyboard)

Aside from this I use these key commands:

To set my *Grid Division* units: Shift+1 = Lower | +2 = Higher | +4 =1/4 | +5=1/8 | +6=1/16 | +7=1/32 | +8=1/64
To set my *Grid Snap to Smart*: CMD+ALT+` (or ~ Key)
To set my *Grid Snap to Division*: CMD+ALT+SHIFT+` (or ~ Key)
To toggle between Relative and Absolute Snap modes: CMD+ALT+/ (or ? Key)

Hoping this helps make the Logic Pro X experience better for everyone. I will post this in its own thread so people can find it easily.

Enjoy!

IMPORTANT: Use this file at your own risk. Do not test it on important/sensitive project files unless you are 100% sure it works for you. I will not be held liable or accountable for any loss or damages of any kind to any party.


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## Vik (Aug 5, 2018)

Thanks, Hassani! 
Can you try to talk the Apple team into allow adding diatonic intervals as well? :D
It would be a good start if Apple would add a lot more Transform factory presets.


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## S.M Hassani (Aug 5, 2018)

Seems like nobody can reach the Apple team about anything these days. But seriously, you can open the "Duplicate" transforms I made, copy the settings and modify the intervals by semitones.

And do try the Expand/Collapse Transforms with the KCs. They made my workflow a lot faster. (See my video)


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## Vik (Aug 5, 2018)

S.M Hassani said:


> Seems like nobody can reach the Apple team about anything these days.


Or many users are just too lazy to use this 
https://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html


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## Saxer (Aug 6, 2018)

How do I get this transform sets to work via key command? If I match a key command to a user transform set nothing happens. Same with the user controller window when I open it via the "Functions" menu in the piano roll window: the transformer is selected and the midi transform window opens but the command is not executed. I still have to click on "select and operate" to get it going. But I want the key command to execute the transform action. What am I missing?


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 6, 2018)

Vik said:


> Regarding "Most of the included plugins and sounds are more 'traditional' than in any other DAW."
> Logic has gotten more interesting loops, I guess, and also is better for those who prefer the kind of stuff "Drummer" does. But if we shall focus on two main ways of making music, where "A" which is about writing lines instead of playing chords or guitar or synth/keyboard/piano, and also being richer harmonically that what the kind of chords people who don't know much about harmony usually come up with - and so on:
> Logic has mainly focused on making it easer for group B and those who maybe don't know much about composing/harmonies to end up with good results... and not so much on improving the workflow for those who need more composing oriented tools.; group A


I'd add though, that a lot of time when a "prosumer" feature was added to Logic, there was also a bonus "for the pros." Drummer is a good example. Whilst the auto rhythm stuff is very clever, the feature also brings several fully playable (via old school midi) kits to Logic.

FWIT, I'm quite happy with the focus on Group B. It means the program remains popular, sales of Macs keep happening and the program remains in active development. You do make a valid point though.


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## Vik (Aug 6, 2018)

Saxer said:


> How do I get this transform sets to work via key command? If I match a key command to a user transform set nothing happens.


Are you sure you have created a new Transform preset *manually*, and assigned the right number in the KC window?
It doesn't work for the factory presets.


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## Saxer (Aug 6, 2018)

Vik said:


> Are you sure you have created a new Transform preset *manually*, and assigned the right number in the KC window?
> It doesn't work for the factory presets.


Thanks for asking... yes, I made a custom transform set (deleting CC1 data) and named it to "1 - Delete CC1". It works fine when opening the midi transform window, selecting my new set from the dropdown and click "select and operate". I can select a bunch of regions in the arrange window and inside all of them all CC1 data are deleted. Everything else (notes and other CC numbers) remains untouched. Great!

Then I assigned a key command to "Assign transform user 1preset to selected Events".
If I now select regions in the arrange window and use this key command: nothing happens. 
If I'm in the piano roll: also nothing happens. 
If I select all data in the piano roll window (notes and controller data) everything is deleted (not only CC1 data). I end up with an empty region. So my new key command works exactly like a delete command.

Obviously the key commands doesn't trigger the "select and operate" function but "operate only". But why are notes deleted too if the transform set doesn't allow that?


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## Vik (Aug 6, 2018)

I can confirm that it works when clicking in the Transform window but not when using a KC assigned to executing that preset. Must be a bug.


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## Saxer (Aug 6, 2018)

Vik said:


> I can confirm that it works when clicking in the Transform window but not when using a KC assigned to executing that preset. Must be a bug.


Thanks for trying!


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## jonathanwright (Aug 7, 2018)

I really, really, really hope that they add the option to 'select and operate' a transform set when using a key command.

Being able to select a region and apply a transform configuration, without having to open the region and select the notes, would be a great workflow improvement.


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## Craig Allen (Aug 8, 2018)

InLight-Tone said:


> Cubase's strength is definitely in building & managing large templates which I have since moved away from. Funny thing is, I'm pining for Logic because of that...



Why are you moving away from larger templates?
What is the particular advantage of Logic for smaller templates?
What do your current templates include?


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## InLight-Tone (Aug 8, 2018)

Craig Allen said:


> Why are you moving away from larger templates?
> What is the particular advantage of Logic for smaller templates?
> What do your current templates include?


I am writing library music and trailers. Having a large template seemed to get in the way of things for me. I had all these tracks that I "might" use at some time. I am currently in Studio One in Windows, and the workflow there is fast and spontaneous which I like. Studio One doesn't do well with large templates, the save times are out of control.

I've basically created a library of presets that are organized like a big template: Strings/String Ensembles/String Sections/Strings Solo etc. I also have a bunch of Multi Instrument presets of pre-layered patches such as Spicatto Strings from two different companies. Sure there is some wait time for things to load, but I can live with that.

After adapting to Studio One, I looked for other hosts with a preset and library system and Logic looks pretty good in that regard. Of course that means a Mac, so I'm not so sure I want to go there. There are a few things in Studio One that are missing like Javascript midi FX, notation (not sure I would use that anyway), Alchemy! etc.

My current template in Studio One is just a bunch of hidden Group tracks and 8 FX sends. I drag in presets and start writing. Once things get going, I unhide the Groups I need like Strings, Brass, and drag the tracks onto the Groups where they get colored and routed automatically, so it's like having a template without all the fuss...
(Of course next month I may change my mind!


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## Craig Allen (Aug 8, 2018)

Fascinating!

I'm trying to wrap my head around the terminology... I'll have to fire up my copy of Studio One and see if I can mock up what you are describing. 

At some level, we all want flexibility, customization, ease of use, and speed. So often the technology that promises to bless us gets in our way. 

Do you miss the elegant midi editing features in Cubase?

Are you thinking that Logic has a better preset & library system than Studio One? 

Is your purpose of un-hiding groups when you need them a means of reducing clutter? (I assume they are still taking up resources. You are mainly trying to not be inundated with too many options, perhaps?)

Craig



InLight-Tone said:


> I am writing library music and trailers. ...
> 
> I've basically created a library of presets that are organized like a big template: Strings/String Ensembles/String Sections/Strings Solo etc. I also have a bunch of Multi Instrument presets of pre-layered patches such as Spicatto Strings from two different companies. Sure there is some wait time for things to load, but I can live with that.
> 
> ...


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## jonathanwright (Aug 9, 2018)

Craig Allen said:


> Fascinating!
> 
> I'm trying to wrap my head around the terminology... I'll have to fire up my copy of Studio One and see if I can mock up what you are describing.
> 
> ...



Personally I find the S1 preset system to be the most user friendly of all the DAWs. So much so that I no longer use templates (other than busses and routing etc) and have created presets for everything. 

It's not perfect, as presets don't remember track colours or routing, but on the other hand you can select multiple presets and drag them into the project at the same time. 

YMMV but if it helps, I've written a short article on how I approach it.

http://www.jonathanwrightmusic.com/studio-one-instrument-presets-large-orchestral-projects/


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## Vik (Aug 9, 2018)

Saxer said:


> Thanks for trying!


You're welcome. It seems to be two problems here: Logic lacks a key command which only operates according to what is defined in the Transform set (meaning: it performs the action (delete, in this case), only according to the conditions in your transform set (only CC1 events, which is very different fro, "delete all selected events"). 


The other problems is that Logic doesn't, in this case, follow what I think be the #1 instruction for all programmers and functions in DAWs or other programs: Don't ever delete anything the user has created unless he specifically ask for those events to be deleted. The way Transform + the key command solution for Transform now works, we can risk deleting very valuable musical material without knowing it, without a warning. 

Right now, the key commands you created does what Backspace does. Not good!


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## stevenson-again (Aug 9, 2018)

Regarding fixed note lengths and velocities - 

I've never missed a KC for them in Logic since it is easily done with modifier keys and adjusting a value in the event editor.

1. Select the notes you want to have the fixed velocity.

2. Open event editor (you can do it in any editor but I like to see the values so I am almost always do it there).

3. Hold down the modifier keys "alt-shift" and adjust a velocity (or note length, or what ever else) and everything will be fixed to that value.

You can do the same thing in any editor - I often use the score editor and you can do it across multiple staves (regions).

It's an interesting discussion. I have been committed to Logic for so long the thought of moving to another DAW...but if I did it would be cubase. I actually still use LP9 because so much of LPX is unusable for me - or at least very much harder. I still dabble though.

Regarding your approach to exporting and stemming, yeah - that was a tricky one to crack but I have a pretty decent system now on logic 9, so I can make up my pre-mixed stems all in one go. I can't imagaine trying to deal with 600+ tracks....sheeesh. I know guys do, but I have things set up so I have the equivalent of very many more than that - all articulations of all libraries, some blended with others all instantly available, using program changes and banks in kontakt and Vienna.

That velocity slider thing in the Cubase equivalent of matrix editor is fantastic. I cannot understand why that isn't in logic. the work wround for that is horrendous.


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## Vik (Aug 9, 2018)

stevenson-again said:


> 1. Select the notes you want to have the fixed velocity.
> 
> 2. Open event editor (you can do it in any editor but I like to see the values so I am almost always do it there).
> 
> ...


Sure, this is a useful function (although not all users know how to edit note lengths graphically in the Score editor). One thing I really like about Logic (over Cubase) is that they seem to have decided that one should be able to to most edits both/either mouse based, with a key command and/or with a menu. And I guess we all want to eb able to do things on one step instead of three, especially when that more cumbersome method involves opening another window/editor. Besides, when adjusting note length from, say, 0 1 1 95 to a dotted 1/8 note, it involves using my brain which I try to avoid as much as possible.

Therefore, I have sent three note length related suggestions to Apple over the years. Here's one of them:
One should be able to edit the selected length of any note(s) (in score) by clicking on one of these icons with a modifier:






I can't think of any possibly faster/easier way to edit note lengths in Score.


Well maybe I can, actually: 

If they would add Length as a contextual menu option over the heads, with the same icons as in the above picture, that would be quite fast as well, and also work in the other editors. It would be useful even without the note icons, but with text (1/16, 1/18 etc) instead.


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## InLight-Tone (Aug 9, 2018)

I honestly don't miss the editing features in Cubase, Studio One is pretty close and has all the basics one needs really except for the esoteric stuff and it's better organized. I wish they would open up the JavaScripting with an API but maybe in the future.

I hide the groups which are folder tracks linked to buses, so that I can start with a blank slate. A bunch of groups I may not use in a track so I don't want to see them. 

As far as Logic, I think it has a strong library and I LOVE Alchemy. Like I said I'm in Windows so going to a Mac just for Logic would be a big step. I want to see where Studio One is going is their next updates because so far I like what they are doing.

As Jonathan says above the biggest drawback is that Studio One doesn't remember track colors, routing etc., but when one drags tracks onto a folder/group/bus, it colors and routes them automatically. I think there's an option somewhere to give child tracks the folder color.

I give credit to Jonathan Wright above whose article gave me the incentive to go this route. I never liked the huge template, VEP, Lemur finagling it took to manage all that mess anyways. I'm a simple man...


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## stevenson-again (Aug 10, 2018)

Vik said:


> Sure, this is a useful function (although not all users know how to edit note lengths graphically in the Score editor). One thing I really like about Logic (over Cubase) is that they seem to have decided that one should be able to to most edits both/either mouse based, with a key command and/or with a menu. And I guess we all want to eb able to do things on one step instead of three, especially when that more cumbersome method involves opening another window/editor. Besides, when adjusting note length from, say, 0 1 1 95 to a dotted 1/8 note, it involves using my brain which I try to avoid as much as possible.
> 
> Therefore, I have sent three note length related suggestions to Apple over the years. Here's one of them:
> One should be able to edit the selected length of any note(s) (in score) by clicking on one of these icons with a modifier:
> ...




Well my main one is to use note/region length to playhead position and note/region start to playhead position. That's one action and works on multiple regions etc.

Personally, I don't mind a couple of actions provided it's fast the UI is responsive and its consistent. I am pretty much out of KC combinations to use anyway. Doing things the way I suggested is super quick.

That customising of KC actions that cubase has looks pretty incredible. Pretty sure I would use that if I had it.


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## S.M Hassani (Aug 10, 2018)

Vik said:


> One should be able to edit the selected length of any note(s) (in score) by clicking on one of these icons with a modifier:



Best of all: if Apple allocates user defined -collapsible- toolbars over the main editors. Something like the current main window toolbar, but completely user customizable. So we could pick our own commands and build our own Macros, then assign our choice of icons and keyboard shortcuts. That would be awesome!


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## jonathanwright (Aug 11, 2018)

InLight-Tone said:


> ..but when one drags tracks onto a folder/group/bus, it colors and routes them automatically.



I'm intrigued by this, I've just tried to drag an instrument onto a bus in the mixer, or a bus track, and it isn't coloured or routed, is there a knack to it?


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## InLight-Tone (Aug 11, 2018)

jonathanwright said:


> I'm intrigued by this, I've just tried to drag an instrument onto a bus in the mixer, or a bus track, and it isn't coloured or routed, is there a knack to it?



I discovered it by accident. I'll try to explain it. I first created a bunch of folder tracks that I wanted to sub-mix like Strings, Brass, Synths whatever, I've got 15 of them. Give them all your preferred colors.

In Options/Advanced/Editing tab check "Apply Folder Track Color to Content".

I then created a bus track for each of these folder tracks and gave them the corresponding colors to match the folder tracks.

Going back to the folder tracks you can then choose the channel in the drop down in the inspector to correspond to the folder so Strings folder goes to channel STRINGS bus. After that the folder track turns into a bus track which you can see in the console.

In the Console I also have the "Link show/hide of Track list and Console" checked under the wrench icon so that if the folders are hidden they are also hidden in the console. I may not be using Electric Pianos and Organs bus for my Epic track.

So like I said, I start with all of the folder/buses hidden and using your preset method just start dragging in whatever I need to get the track rolling. The tracks come in with their generic color and I just keep on dragging in and writing till my main idea takes shape. At that point I will Unhide the folder/buses I need for that piece and drag the corresponding tracks onto them in the arrange window and boom, they are colored the folder color and routed through that corresponding sub-mix bus. I also have 8 sends with 4 reverbs, 3 delays and a group filter send ready to go which you can route your sub mixes through if desired.

Once you have a main template setup in advance like this, it's pretty quick composing without all the fuss of Vep, Visibility agents, etc., and I kind of like the blank slate to start with. Hope this made sense!


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## jonathanwright (Aug 12, 2018)

InLight-Tone said:


> I discovered it by accident. I'll try to explain it. I first created a bunch of folder tracks that I wanted to sub-mix like Strings, Brass, Synths whatever, I've got 15 of them. Give them all your preferred colors.
> 
> In Options/Advanced/Editing tab check "Apply Folder Track Color to Content".
> 
> ...



Thanks InLight-Tone, works great!


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## greggybud (Aug 15, 2018)

stevenson-again said:


> That customising of KC actions that cubase has looks pretty incredible. Pretty sure I would use that if I had it.



Between the:
1. Cubase factory and customization key commands, 
2. the Macros, (chaining seperate key commands together to form a master key command) 
3.Logical Editor and Project Logical editor, 

there honestly IMO is not much midi editing ground left.

In the Logical Editor alone there are several dozen factory Midi commands, some you may find useful, others you think it's crazy that they are included. Just delete what you don't think will be helpful if the list is too long. There have been very few occasions where I wanted to achieve something and I couldn't do with the LE. It's not always easy and I'm still a novice with the LE, but just spend time and I think most users catch on pretty fast. 

For composers who are into midi editing, I also strongly suggest the $14 Metagrid iOS application that takes Cubase key commands, cubase macros, and the Logical Editor to the next step...more convenient and faster workflow.

Attached is an additional LE 210 midi commands compliments of Jono. Use what you wish, delete the others.

Cubase key commands is not utopia. In Cubase, you need to learn which KC's apply to which windows, and which ones apply to all windows. While smaller single screen users won't have a problem, the issue is FOCUS for users of large or wide screens where multiple windows will be displayed at the same time which means more mouse clicking...until Steinberg addresses the focus problem.


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## shawnsingh (Aug 15, 2018)

Very insightful about the focus problem. I hadn't thought about that since I'm only in one screen.



greggybud said:


> there honestly IMO is not much midi editing ground left.



advanced yes, but here's a few examples of editing tasks I wish for...

A "real time step recording mode" where I record what I want and input a beat at the same time, and the DAW would be intelligent enough to warp the recording to fit the current tempo. Maybe it can be done with logical editor but I think it's complicated enough and could have options to have a separate feature. It would save a ton of time fixing bad quantizations and bad notes if I was able to record takes at a tempo that slowed down on difficult parts or let's me pause to think about the exact next chord, etc.
Ability to edit CC's and note velocities of many instruments simultaneously, controller lanes in Cubase don't do this


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## greggybud (Aug 16, 2018)

shawnsingh said:


> I hadn't thought about that since I'm only in one screen.
> 
> advanced yes, but here's a few examples of editing tasks I wish for...



You are right of course! I said that when thinking of only the note manipulations of the key editor...what is included in Jonos presets. And that is just a small area of the LE,PLE.

It's always amusing to see occasional "new features" released in Cubase that are actually created, and sometimes have existed in the Logical Editor.

While greatly enhancing workflow, having multiple displays or large displays IMO adds to the list of the things that need improving. Specifically...focus, since currently the only focus methods I know of is KC's for opening/closing the 3 mix consoles which then give automatic focus, bring project page to front, plus the Windows KC ctr+tab that will cycle through all your open windows. Well...not all...but that's another story.


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## Vik (Sep 28, 2018)

Saxer said:


> How do I get this transform sets to work via key command? If I match a key command to a user transform set nothing happens. Same with the user controller window when I open it via the "Functions" menu in the piano roll window: the transformer is selected and the midi transform window opens but the command is not executed. I still have to click on "select and operate" to get it going. But I want the key command to execute the transform action. What am I missing?


You are missing 10.2.4: "There are now up to 30 Key Commands available to directly apply user created Transform operations to selected MIDI events."


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## Saxer (Sep 29, 2018)

Vik said:


> You are missing 10.2.4: "There are now up to 30 Key Commands available to directly apply user created Transform operations to selected MIDI events."


Yepp, great update!


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## stigc56 (Oct 2, 2018)

Breitenbach said:


> Wow interesting! Yeah, Logic actually has a "bounce in place" aka "render in place" feature too. I've never completely understood why, but even when I'm just trying to render in place a single track, clicks and pops would still occur at tempo changes. I haven't experimented with that in Cubase, so I'm not sure if the same thing would happen.
> 
> I have had to assume that it's a CPU issue because it's worst when working with ramping tempos. With the tempo data changing literally on every frame, some of these samples seem to self destruct when they are in music mode.


Ramping tempo changes if Kontakt is involved is tricky in Cubase. This is because the Kontakt plug-in defaults to be synced from the DAW, causing a lot of cpu activity if there are any kind of reverb ot convolution involved in the patch. The solution is to set Kontakt to internal sync or use jumps in the tempo curve. It works here!


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