# Tiny Audio Interface?



## colony nofi (Apr 4, 2021)

Hey clever VI Control People,
I need to put together a tiny portable DAW rig in the next month.
For most work outside our studios, I've used a babyface for quite a long time.
However, a project is coming up where that is just too bulky to use. The entire workstation needs to be able to be put together very quickly - and the baby face is a step too far. Indeed, the interface will probably be joined to a USB C hub in a 3D printed case. Most important is headphone amp - but some sort of ability to output to stereo line outs might be useful (but definitely not a deal breaker)
No audio inputs or midi inputs required.
Good drivers for mac and pc.
Ideas?

What is the status for the mac inbuilt audio soundcard? Is it usable for VI type work? If I get the chance, I might actually try and run some of our studio benchmarks, although this machine won't be doing the kinds of things our own benchmark template tests. I must admit that the idea of running via SONY WH-1000XM4 via bluetooth would be the dream, but impossible with the introduced latency. But they would be good for this project / useful to work on given the less than ideal environments work will need to be done in.

Hm. I must test mine with a cable / see how much latency *just* the NC introduces. I digress.

EDIT : There's a tiny IK multimedia interface that would look good, but it uses a proprietary plug to connect via USB. WHY is this still a thing? I would much prefer something that connects using standard USB. Cables break - especially when you don't want them to...

Any help appreciated.


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## SupremeFist (Apr 4, 2021)

I sometimes run the Sonys (previous gen mx3) wired if I want the noise-cancelling: that way there's no latency (at least none I can detect). Built-in mac audio should be perfectly fine if you don't need any other IO.

The zoom u-22 is a very small external one:








Zoom U-22 - Handy Audio InterfaceDefault


Zoom U-22 - Handy Audio Interface The Zoom U-22 Handy Audio Interface is the essential mobile recording and performance interface, with an innovative 2-in/2-out ultra-portable design that makes it easy to connect to a laptop or an iPhone/iPad and create great-sounding audio anywhere. The U22...




studiocare.com


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## WandaS (Apr 4, 2021)

The MIYO is the smallest best sounding. http://gomiyo.com/index.html
They're no longer making them but you may find one used.


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## sostenuto (Apr 4, 2021)

Could Rode AI-1 ( $129.) work for you ? Have one in home studio for Mic Pre and pleased for this usage.

https://www.rode.com/interfaces/ai1

OR

Focusrite Scarlett Solo (3rd) Gen $ $119. Also USB-C


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## John Longley (Apr 4, 2021)

Used RME Babyface. Drivers are still updated, they run great and they are small. You don't need to connect the breakout cable unless you are using the I/O and headphone jack is on the physical unit. You can get one for like $250-$300 easily with a travel case. I keep one in my laptop bag and my large interfaces stay in the studio racked.


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## lychee (Apr 4, 2021)

colony nofi said:


> There's a tiny IK multimedia interface that would look good, but it uses a proprietary plug to connect via USB. WHY is this still a thing? I would much prefer something that connects using standard USB. Cables break - especially when you don't want them to...


There is the Irig Pre HD from IK Multimedia which has a direct USB plug and it seems not bad despite its low price:


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## mybadmemory (Apr 4, 2021)

I think no audio interface at all is absolutely fine these days if you only want to get sound out of, and not into the computer. I plug my AKG’s and my iLouds straight into my Mac and it works great both in terms of latency and sound quality.


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## colony nofi (Apr 4, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I sometimes run the Sonys (previous gen mx3) wired if I want the noise-cancelling: that way there's no latency (at least none I can detect). Built-in mac audio should be perfectly fine if you don't need any other IO.
> 
> The zoom u-22 is a very small external one:
> 
> ...


Very interesting. Yeah, I've used the sony's for years - but never for music, just sound design / occasions when latency wasn't a thing. Good to know the latency is very low. I guess the trick is to try it right?

And as for running it thru mac audio - thats really good info. My current 2018 MBP has from day one had a non-functioning headphone port. It has something stuck in it - looked like a manufacturing issue to me, but when I raised it with apple about 3 months after buying the machine, they said it was definitely something I stuck in there and the repair charge was extraordinarily high. I didn't have the time / energy to fight it and never thought I would need the port. Ha! However, it will be a different machine that is used for the project... I just can't test on this one. I'll drag out an older 2015 machine to test I think. Can then run tests of performance with the same session using the babyface vs internal sound. I'd LOVE the internal sound card to be good enough.



WandaS said:


> The MIYO is the smallest best sounding. http://gomiyo.com/index.html
> They're no longer making them but you may find one used.


Great find. I'd be interested in it if it wasn't hard to come by - it needs to be in a kit where things can be easily / quickly replaced if something goes wrong. Was good to read their business story / why they stopped producing them. 



sostenuto said:


> Could Rode AI-1 ( $129.) work for you ? Have one in home studio for Mic Pre and pleased for this usage.
> 
> https://www.rode.com/interfaces/ai1
> 
> ...



I'd prefer smaller than the rode or scarlett. I'd really love something thats just a little bigger than a 6.5mm headphone jack. Pack of cards kinda size. I only need headphone outs as my #1 feature, and good drivers as #2.



John Longley said:


> Used RME Babyface. Drivers are still updated, they run great and they are small. You don't need to connect the breakout cable unless you are using the I/O and headphone jack is on the physical unit. You can get one for like $250-$300 easily with a travel case. I keep one in my laptop bag and my large interfaces stay in the studio racked.


I have a babyface! Love it to death. (I'm on my second one...) But i think it is too big for this project. Trying to keep size RIGHT down. Ideally whatever we go with I'll mount behind the screen on the laptop so its just always connected / ready to go when you open the screen. The babyface is too heavy for that. (I tried!!!)

There *might* be the option of making a base that goes UNDER the laptop, which could be bigger. It will be a fair bit heavier all round, but might not be too big / depending on all the other hardware that needs to go with it and fit into a bag/case/pack that is easily assembled in quite tight spaces.



lychee said:


> There is the Irig Pre HD from IK Multimedia which has a direct USB plug and it seems not bad despite its low price:


Oh how did I not see that - it looks REALLY quite interesting.

And looking into it a little more, they also have this 




__





IK Multimedia - iRig Mic Cast HD


Dual-sided digital voice microphone for iPhone, iPad and Android.




www.ikmultimedia.com




Which has headphone out (its a mic) - which might be very similar performance to the Irig Pre HD for headphone monitoring, but even SMALLER and magnetically attaches to the screen. I don't need the pre in the Irig Pre HD (although I also don't need the mic in the irigMicHD! Ha!)

Feels like I'm getting much closer - if not thinking this will do well if tests with internal sound don't go well. Wondering how good the drivers are. 

Any other ideas?


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## colony nofi (Apr 4, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I think no audio interface at all is absolutely fine these days if you only want to get sound out of, and not into the computer. I plug my AKG’s and my iLouds straight into my Mac and it works great both in terms of latency and sound quality.


Thanks!


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## colony nofi (Apr 4, 2021)

Another option might be the Audeze Mobius headphones... connection via USB. Now, they're mainly for 3D gaming, but they might just be lovely 2 ch headphones as well. Cuts down on one whole device for the rig, which could be good.
I wonder if they run WITHOUT waves NX etc (this project does not need spacial mixing / 5.1 etc etc - although from a personal level I'd like to see how well this works compared to some of the methods I currently use for headphone surround monitoring!)

Looks like it runs "driverless" - is autodetected by osx as an 8 channel output - although I have only looked quickly at the tech docs.









Mobius Spatial Audio Gaming Headset


Our Audeze Mobius headphones produce the very definition of audio perfection. To learn more, look through our selection of high-quality headphones.




www.audeze.com





Anyone with any experience with these - or know of other decent monitoring headphones with internal DAC receiving audio over USB?


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## proxima (Apr 4, 2021)

colony nofi said:


> What is the status for the mac inbuilt audio soundcard? Is it usable for VI type work? If I get the chance, I might actually try and run some of our studio benchmarks, although this machine won't be doing the kinds of things our own benchmark template tests. I must admit that the idea of running via SONY WH-1000XM4 via bluetooth would be the dream, but impossible with the introduced latency. But they would be good for this project / useful to work on given the less than ideal environments work will need to be done in.


If your headphones don't need an amp, I'd give the Macbook soundcard a try. I noted that Guy does not bring along an external interface. 

And yes, bluetooth is a nonstarter, though people like Christian Henson seem to like to use airpods (and lose them). I'm not sure if that not-quite-bluetooth interface is significantly lower latency, but ehhh..


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## colony nofi (Apr 5, 2021)

proxima said:


> If your headphones don't need an amp, I'd give the Macbook soundcard a try. I noted that Guy does not bring along an external interface.
> 
> And yes, bluetooth is a nonstarter, though people like Christian Henson seem to like to use airpods (and lose them). I'm not sure if that not-quite-bluetooth interface is significantly lower latency, but ehhh..


As much as I'd love to bring my normal headphones on this project (LCD-X) they're too big and need a better headphone amp than will be available. I'll either use the SONY over ear noise cancelling (wired) or a pair of AKG 240 mkII's... since that's what is already around the studio.

I'm also not sure I could ever do creative work with airpods - although I do understand how they are an awesome tiny set of headphones. (And I always have a set with me when travelling if only for zoom meetings or listening to references/looking at new pic cuts etc)

Its another thing to test - I'll see if I get the chance to measure the latency of the airpods sometime this week when running off an iphone / ipad / mac laptop.


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## TGV (Apr 5, 2021)

The new M-Audio interfaces are dirt cheap and got a good review: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/m-audio-m-track-solo-duo. Headphones are mini-jack.


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## gzapper (Apr 5, 2021)

What inputs and outputs do you need?
If its just headphone out or line out just use the mac's built in outputs. They are totally acceptable, I've run lots of shows of of macbook pros running Qlab right into a sound system. They sound good.

If you only need line inputs, the built in inputs are fine as well.
Its only if you need mic input, and then you might do well with just a usb mic and the 'puter's sound out.


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## cAudio (Apr 5, 2021)

I don’t own it myself but I’ve heard good things about these:
https://www.audioquest.com/page/aq-dragonfly-series.html


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## Loïc D (Apr 5, 2021)

Audient EVO ?


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## fakemaxwell (Apr 5, 2021)

Yeah going to third or fourth using the regular Mac built in headphone out. If size is that much of an issue that a Babyface won't even work, no sense getting a dongle. I've done plenty of stuff with no interface, it's definitely good enough.


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## rrichard63 (Apr 5, 2021)

If for some reason the Mac's built in headphone output isn't good enough, and you'd like to consider an alternative to the IK Multimedia products already mentioned, take at look at the Native Instruments Traktor Pro 2:






Native Instruments







www.native-instruments.com





It features separate outputs for headphones and speakers but no inputs. I have an earlier version and it works fine.


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## musicalweather (Apr 5, 2021)

There's the MOTU Solo and Duo. They seemed to get a decent review in this month's Sound On Sound. You can read the issue without a subscription by logging in.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/m-audio-m-track-solo-duo


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## jiten (Apr 5, 2021)

Apogee groove might be a good fit for you given the requirements you outlined. But should note that it only has Windows ASIO drivers. For Mac, it's comptable with Core Audio so doesn't require or have its own drivers.
(https://apogeedigital.com/products/groove)


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## PaulieDC (Apr 5, 2021)

I went on that search... to me, for a mobile rig, I just wanted a GOOD interface with GOOD drivers that sounded GOOD. I didn't want XLR mic inputs (but having them optional would be nice). Also, it needs to perform somewhat near my stellar Babyface Pro that's on my desk, but it I don't want it ANYWHERE near that bulky and heavy. And it needs to work for Mac or Windows in case I decide to jump over to Mac (OK, that won't occur but support for both platforms is a nice feature). And it needs to sound better to my ears than the plethora of FocusRite and PreSonus interfaces I've owned over the past several years. Does this magical interface exist? You betcha! And it costs a little more, for a reason. And yes, made in the USA:

The Apogee One.

Amazon sells it:



I don't understand why this interface isn't more popular for the mobile rig aficionados. It's slim, lightweight, works amazingly in my gamer laptop (no audio crackles like other interfaces I've tried). To me it's second to the Babyface Pro for performance and sound quality. And if you just HAVE to sample the generator running the ferris wheel at your local county fair, you have a dongle for an XLR mic cable. In a pinch you have built-in condenser mics. But I use it as a killer tiny interface and it's superb, IMO anyway.

There's a perfect case for it that I got for twelve bucks on Amazon, I wrote a thread about it here, so you can see how it fits.

Only drawback of the Apogee One is the need for a Mini-USB cable. I like to run the interface off my one USB-C port on my laptop, so https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079L5YFJY (this cable) works perfectly for that. If you will simply use a USB 3.0 jack, any https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Charging-Compatible-Controller-Receiver/dp/B089F9VR4X/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=UGREEN%2Busb%2Bmini&qid=1617676130&s=electronics&sr=1-5&th=1 (like this one) should work. I do like UGREEN cables, always been reliable, and they are quite flexible for storage.

There you go, one more suggestion of an interface to totally cloud the subject.  Happy hunting!


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## colony nofi (Apr 6, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I went on that search... to me, for a mobile rig, I just wanted a GOOD interface with GOOD drivers that sounded GOOD. I didn't want XLR mic inputs (but having them optional would be nice). Also, it needs to perform somewhat near my stellar Babyface Pro that's on my desk, but it I don't want it ANYWHERE near that bulky and heavy. And it needs to work for Mac or Windows in case I decide to jump over to Mac (OK, that won't occur but support for both platforms is a nice feature). And it needs to sound better to my ears than the plethora of FocusRite and PreSonus interfaces I've owned over the past several years. Does this magical interface exist? You betcha! And it costs a little more, for a reason. And yes, made in the USA:
> 
> The Apogee One.


Would you know it - I have an old version of the apogee one somewhere in the studio from many years ago. I couldn't tell you how old it is... perhaps 7 or 8 years? Black with a silver stripe (not all silver like the current model!) I used it prior to getting the babyface, and its been a headphone amp/DAC for our producer ever since.

I must admit to not even thinking twice about it, but its probably good enough (although I also loved the suggestion of the Apogee Groove on the previous page, and the dragonfly dac - which both run as core-audio on macs as far as I can tell. From memory the ONE uses the apogee driver. I wonder how much of a difference that makes these days.

I don't even know if there's still current drivers for the OLD one that I have - but perhaps! Its definitely worth looking at. I've long lost the dongle for the XLR cable (like I said, I HATE proprietary cables like that, but I won't need it this time round)

Thanks all for the help. You've all provided interesting suggestions and thoughts I wouldn't have had without the help of many heads here! 

I will also need a keyboard (I have X-Keys and M32) plus some sort of midi control (I'll try the touch strips on the M32), sustain (light weight) - and potentially some sort of mouse other than the mac trackpad. I have some options to try there... I use a kensington trackball normally - but they are too large for this. Chances are even just the apple track pad will be fine - just not on the laptop. Its all about small space ergonomics, and trying to make a workable system.
I'm toying up figuring out some sort of stand to hold my ipad pro above the mac screen as a monitor for sync pics. I have two of the asus USB-C monitors, but they are too big (at least to put on the side of the laptop... somehow mounted above could work!). I have a bunch of "tiny rig" stuff that might just work...def got an ipad holder somewhere that might be able to be bashed into shape. More to think about.

Oh - and drives. My current field rigs involve three x 4TB drives both when using a mac pro cylinder or macbook pro. This is too much - I'm going to try go for a single 8TB drive. There's now 8TB NVME SSD's so I should be able to find a thunderbolt enclosure for one of them. Small and easily attachable to the computer (so its not a mass of cables / can be cabled up and just pulled out of a case!) 

Need to make sure everything can potentially run off bus power. I have a couple large USB-C batteries that should help me run everything for at least 10 hours between chargers. Will see how that goes.

USB-C hub of some sort (bus powered!) No physical ilok (could be tricky, but will look into not using plugs that cant use ilok cloud) and crossing fingers and toes for the new steinberg licensing alternative to e-license. Worse case I'll have to use more USB for one of those...


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## colony nofi (Apr 6, 2021)

Mount for ipad above the screen - sorted!








Mountie+ connect a second screen to your laptop.


Mount a second screen to your laptop. Mountie+ is perfect for Sidecar is optimized for larger tablets. Now working on the go is simple plus fun.




tenonedesign.com




There's *so* much interesting new hardware out in the wild!


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