# Best DAW for Mixing and changing Tempo often



## CatComposer (Apr 23, 2021)

I am planning to mix and produce some songs, each containing around 6 tracks (combination of VSTs playing Midi and Audio Wav files).

In order to get them sounding more human and live, I plan to change the tempo frequently (but subtly), slowing and accelerating often.

Currently I'm working in Cubase 8 LE and sadly this lacks the proper tempo track functionality.
Instead of upgrading my Cubase, I'm wondering if there's a better DAW for this purpose.

Also, I heard that Cubase is inferior to some other DAWs when it comes to mixing.
Certainly in my current version I feel crippled, as I can't even render in place and have to do an external mixdown of my VST tracks and then bring them back into the project as audio files.

Keep in mind I'm working on Windows 10 and am allergic to Apple products, so Logic is out of the question.

Also, I have tried both Reaper and FL Studio and have found them painfully unintuitive, and simple tasks are unnecessarily complex.

Hopefully there's a great DAW which isn't too expensive.
I look forward to your recommendations.


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## Henu (Apr 23, 2021)

Update to Cubase 11, problem solved. And no, it's not inferior to some other DAWs on mixing either. :D


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## vitocorleone123 (Apr 23, 2021)

I wouldn't compose in it, but I would recommend trying Mixbus32C for, well, mixing (esp if you have a large screen available). You can automate tempo changes for the song, and mixes sound very good coming from it due to all the built in mixer emulation, summing, etc.

Maybe demo Studio One, as well. If those don't work, stick with the devil you know and try the Cubase upgrade.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 23, 2021)

Sseltenrych said:


> I heard that Cubase is inferior to some other DAWs when it comes to mixing.


Not sure who's saying this, but it's for sure one of the THE best for mixing.

For PC, I can vouch for Cubase and Cakewalk (which is free), both have excellent tempo mapping.


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## Joël Dollié (Apr 23, 2021)

Protools is probably the best for mixing?


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## vitocorleone123 (Apr 23, 2021)

Joël Dollié said:


> Protools is probably the best for mixing?


I've never used Protools, but... from what I know of Mixbus32C and read about Protools... I'm not so sure anymore. It USED to be very true. But now? If I had and knew PT I'd just use it. If I didn't, I'd 100% try Mixbus32C first, if only because of the price and licensing if nothing else. If it didn't meet the need, then I'd look elsewhere, as a home musician.

If I was a studio pro, PT is a standard for many, and there may be little choice in the matter.


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## Henu (Apr 23, 2021)

Nah, I at least hate PT compared to Steinberg stuff. Every time I need to mix on that I feel it's lacking half of the features Cubase or Nuendo has and it's also annoyingly unintuitive. But hey, I heard that they are bringing FOLDERS to it finally, so maybe there is hope.

However, I don't think I've EVER managed to crash that one, so it's rather rock solid (at least on Macs where people tend to use it.)

PS: I actually have Pro Tools as well- the last time I used it was a year ago when I wanted to do learn using the beat detector for an album I mixed and decided to try the BD out for fun. Before that, I think the last time I used it voluntarily was in 2016. :D


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## Tim_Wells (Apr 23, 2021)

The tempo change functionality in Cubase is quite good, as is the mixing. Since your already familiar with Cubase, it might make sense to upgrade to the Pro version.


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## fakemaxwell (Apr 23, 2021)

I know you said you found it "painfully unintuitive," but I've had no issues with Reaper's tempo mapping.

The only reason I'm saying this is that I don't think it's a very good reason to choose a DAW. Way way more goes into workflow than this.


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## CatComposer (Apr 23, 2021)

Henu said:


> Update to Cubase 11, problem solved. And no, it's not inferior to some other DAWs on mixing either. :D


The whole point of this thread was to find an alternative to spending nearly $800 on a DAW, which for all I know is inferior for Mixing and Tempo changing than a much cheaper alternative.

I know there are many users on this forum who have worked with multiple DAWs and could give a fair comparison.


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## CatComposer (Apr 23, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> The tempo change functionality in Cubase is quite good, as is the mixing. Since your already familiar with Cubase, it might make sense to upgrade to the Pro version.


Ok, it's good to know that Cubase isn't bad for what I need.
The $800 price tag is prohibitive for me though.
What other DAWs have you worked with?


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## CatComposer (Apr 23, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not sure who's saying this, but it's for sure one of the THE best for mixing.
> 
> For PC, I can vouch for Cubase and Cakewalk (which is free), both have excellent tempo mapping.


Thanks for your suggestion.
I remember trying Cakewalk a few years ago and got lost in all the bloated extras I didn't need.
I'll have another look at it.
Do you know how Cakewalk compares to Cubase for mixing?


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## CatComposer (Apr 23, 2021)

fakemaxwell said:


> I know you said you found it "painfully unintuitive," but I've had no issues with Reaper's tempo mapping.
> 
> The only reason I'm saying this is that I don't think it's a very good reason to choose a DAW. Way way more goes into workflow than this.


I spent several days wrestling with Reaper and couldn't get a sound out of it.
When I saw what Edison could do in FL Studio I learned how to use it, but was shocked that importing a WAV file was a 4 step process.
In Cubase you just drag and drop.


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## CatComposer (Apr 23, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I wouldn't compose in it, but I would recommend trying Mixbus32C for, well, mixing (esp if you have a large screen available). You can automate tempo changes for the song, and mixes sound very good coming from it due to all the built in mixer emulation, summing, etc.
> 
> Maybe demo Studio One, as well. If those don't work, stick with the devil you know and try the Cubase upgrade.


After doing some more research, Studio One looks like one of the best DAWs for what I need.
Hopefully their monthly option isn't tied to a full year contract.
I think I could get this project done within a month and that would save me from having to own the software.


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## CatComposer (Apr 23, 2021)

Joël Dollié said:


> Protools is probably the best for mixing?


Thanks. I will check it out.
I hadn't considered Protools since last time I checked it was super-expensive, but I see now they have a monthly membership which would suit me well.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 23, 2021)

Sseltenrych said:


> Thanks. I will check it out.
> I hadn't considered Protools since last time I checked it was super-expensive, but I see now they have a monthly membership which would suit me well.


Since you're using a low track count, you could possibly use the free version of Pro Tools, it's called "Pro Tools First". I think it has up to 16 tracks.









Pro Tools - Music Software - Avid


Music software for Mac or Windows to create audio with up to 128 audio tracks. Pro Tools includes 60 virtual instruments (thousands of sounds), effects, sound processing, utility plugins, 1 GB of cloud storage and 75 individual plugins. Create, Collaborate. Be heard.




www.avid.com


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## CatComposer (Apr 23, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Since you're using a low track count, you could possibly use the free version of Pro Tools, it's called "Pro Tools First". I think it has up to 16 tracks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Jeremy.
Btw, I enjoyed listening to your music on your website


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 23, 2021)

Sseltenrych said:


> Thanks Jeremy.
> Btw, I enjoyed listening to your music on your website


Hey, thanks a lot! I appreciate that.


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## ennbr (Apr 23, 2021)

If you really interested in Studio One it's on sale through JRRshop Pro version $279





JRRshop.com | Manufacturers


Shop by Brands, Shop by Manufacturers




www.jrrshop.com





I use Studio One as my day to day DAW although I have Cubase 11, Ableton Live 11, Logic Pro, and stopped using Pro Tools 2 years ago.

Bottom line I like the workflow of S1 and it does handle Temp mapping quite well


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## Arbee (Apr 24, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I've never used Protools, but... from what I know of Mixbus32C and read about Protools... I'm not so sure anymore. It USED to be very true. But now? If I had and knew PT I'd just use it. If I didn't, I'd 100% try Mixbus32C first, if only because of the price and licensing if nothing else. If it didn't meet the need, then I'd look elsewhere, as a home musician.
> 
> If I was a studio pro, PT is a standard for many, and there may be little choice in the matter.


I find the edit window in PT _really_ easy for meter and tempo changes but I've not used Cubase.


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## CatComposer (Apr 24, 2021)

ennbr said:


> If you really interested in Studio One it's on sale through JRRshop Pro version $279
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So would I be right to assume that Studio One has the best workflow and most intuitive layout of all your DAWs?
Why did you stop using Pro Tools?


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## PeterN (Apr 24, 2021)

Sseltenrych said:


> I am planning to mix and produce some songs, each containing around 6 tracks (combination of VSTs playing Midi and Audio Wav files).
> 
> In order to get them sounding more human and live, I plan to change the tempo frequently (but subtly), slowing and accelerating often.
> 
> ...


Logic has hardly been mentioned here, and probably for a reason. I wonder how it would put up in a test, this would be a very interesting test. I think it will fall short, as it has been designed to be mostly for one tempo disco music. Also it fails with pitch tools, when you start to change sounds and automate pitches, the mathematics become too complicated to Logics logic. Its not a bad DAW though and developing, but I SUSPECT Cubase will beat it. Anyone who has both, pls provide some insight. Just for the clarification, I got Logic, its great but it has some low IQ issues. You cant push it too much, it also gets provoked. But its damn great if you run it on moderate.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 24, 2021)

PeterN said:


> Logic has hardly been mentioned here, and probably for a reason. I wonder how it would put up in a test, this would be a very interesting test. I think it will fall short, as it has been designed to be mostly for one tempo disco music. Also it fails with pitch tools, when you start to change sounds and automate pitches, the mathematics become too complicated to Logics logic. Its not a bad DAW though and developing, but I SUSPECT Cubase will beat it. Anyone who has both, pls provide some insight. Just for the clarification, I got Logic, its great but it has some low IQ issues. You cant push it too much, it also gets provoked. But its damn great if you run it on moderate.


The OP said he’s not interested in Logic, he’s on Windows.


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## Trash Panda (Apr 24, 2021)

Unless you like using MIDI channels to manage articulations (which is apparently on the way), Studio One is a great and intuitive DAW. Reaper is no slouch on the MIDI front either.

Both are great for mixing.


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## PeterN (Apr 24, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> The OP said he’s not interested in Logic, he’s on Windows.


Thats right. Sorry.


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## ennbr (Apr 24, 2021)

Sseltenrych said:


> So would I be right to assume that Studio One has the best workflow and most intuitive layout of all your DAWs?
> Why did you stop using Pro Tools?


For me Studio One has a very intuitive interface just about everything is drag and drop or just a right mouse click away.

I stopped using Pro Tools at the time they went subscription so my last version is 2019.12 and my perpetual license is still in tact. After 10 or so years I got tired of seeing bugs not fixed huge delays supporting OS releases. And the really big one was lacking features they just don't keep up with the industry. When adding folders turns into a big feature in a release sorry to late.


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## CatComposer (Apr 24, 2021)

ennbr said:


> For me Studio One has a very intuitive interface just about everything is drag and drop or just a right mouse click away.
> 
> I stopped using Pro Tools at the time they went subscription so my last version is 2019.12 and my perpetual license is still in tact. After 10 or so years I got tired of seeing bugs not fixed huge delays supporting OS releases. And the really big one was lacking features they just don't keep up with the industry. When adding folders turns into a big feature in a release sorry to late.


Thanks Ennbr, that was very helpful.


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## Pappaus (Apr 24, 2021)

I would also plus one on studio one. I have been using it for years and their whole focus seems to be to make things easy for the user. They also have various options including a free one with multiple tracks.


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## CatComposer (Apr 24, 2021)

I just found out that there are some issues between Izotope plugins and Studio One, so I think I will start with the free version of Protools.
Thanks to everyone who contributed.


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## Trash Panda (Apr 24, 2021)

Sseltenrych said:


> I just found out that there are some issues between Izotope plugins and Studio One, so I think I will start with the free version of Protools.
> Thanks to everyone who contributed.


I’ve run into no such issues and ran away from Pro Tools to Reaper and Studio One.


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## ennbr (Apr 24, 2021)

Sseltenrych said:


> I just found out that there are some issues between Izotope plugins and Studio One


Can you expand on what iZotope plugins are not working correctly I have just about all of them and they get used quite regularly with Studio One with no problems


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## CatComposer (Apr 25, 2021)

ennbr said:


> Can you expand on what iZotope plugins are not working correctly I have just about all of them and they get used quite regularly with Studio One with no problems


I have been communicating with Izotope and they say there are major bugs and to avoid Studio One until they are fixed.
They didn't say what the bugs were.


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## ennbr (Apr 25, 2021)

Sseltenrych said:


> I have been communicating with Izotope and they say there are major bugs and to avoid Studio One until they are fixed.
> T


I was wondering what plugin specifically since myself and others I know using their products for years now have not seen or reported any major problems. 

But thanks for the reply anyway.


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## Gary Williamson (Apr 26, 2021)

Sseltenrych said:


> The whole point of this thread was to find an alternative to spending nearly $800 on a DAW, which for all I know is inferior for Mixing and Tempo changing than a much cheaper alternative.
> 
> I know there are many users on this forum who have worked with multiple DAWs and could give a fair comparison.


I think you can upgrade from your version to 11 pro for like $300, dont know where you get $800, its not that much just buying new without any upgrade path.


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## CatComposer (Apr 26, 2021)

Gary Williamson said:


> I think you can upgrade from your version to 11 pro for like $300, dont know where you get $800, its not that much just buying new without any upgrade path.


That's $800 Aud.
And I don't see two upgrades being a simple path.
I have Cubase 8 le which is almost obsolete.


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## CatComposer (Apr 26, 2021)

ennbr said:


> I was wondering what plugin specifically since myself and others I know using their products for years now have not seen or reported any major problems.
> 
> But thanks for the reply anyway.


I just found out that Nectar and Neutron can freeze up, but not all users see that.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 26, 2021)

Gary Williamson said:


> I think you can upgrade from your version to 11 pro for like $300, dont know where you get $800, its not that much just buying new without any upgrade path.


That's what I thought too....the full version is $844 USD + dongle, or $440 to upgrade from 8 LE.


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## CatComposer (Apr 26, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> That's what I thought too....the full version is $844 USD + dongle, or $440 to upgrade from 8 LE.


There is currently a sale, so I can get the upgrade for $438 plus $34, so $472.
Normal price would be $741.

Still I see no reason to spend so much money when I can get the same functionality from Protools First for free, or pay a small monthly fee for Studio One.


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## Chris Richter (Apr 26, 2021)

Well, if that’s a consideration. Reaper is 60$ for a non commercial license.


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## CatComposer (Jun 5, 2021)

I ended up getting Studio One Artist for free with a Presonus device, and am very happy.
I've had no issues with Izotope plugins so far.
The Tempo track is great, and mixing is a breeze.
The interface is intuitive for me too.
I'm glad I jumped ship from Cubase!


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