# Music is hard when you're ADHD



## dafy (Sep 7, 2014)

For 45 years, I've been trying to make art. I get so far, sometimes, but then, as I need to get more involved, I fall apart. It's like that with everything, for me.

Why I write and love music I will never know. I've written probably 5000 things, none of them ever get finished. I move on...to whatever else new is in my head.

I have to say I admire real musicians, they can keep it together for a whole song, or even a whole album or movie.

Here's my latest disaster...I'm ready to give up on it because it's gotten too involved for me and I need to move on to the next thing. I hate that. I could make a good song with this, but I must move on. It's who I am, incapable of concentrating.

https://soundcloud.com/shawngibson1969/mor2etc2


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## germancomponist (Sep 7, 2014)

Ha ha, man this is cool and ready composed! Reminds me to Mr. Steve Vai .... .

What you can do is working on the mix, to spend it a "better (what is this?) sound.

o/~


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## wst3 (Sep 7, 2014)

two quick thoughts...

first, don't give up, ADD or ADHD may be the reason your are creative...

second - you do not have to do everything yourself. If you regularly get things to the point where they are ready to mix and then lose interest then partner with someone that likes to mix (and is good at it!)


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## dafy (Sep 8, 2014)

Hi guys. Wow, Vai...really lol? I was actually thinking of some of the Paul Gilbert bizarro picking lessons I learned years ago (and a couple sweep picking things). But Vai is definitely my favourite rocker guitarist.

Yes, the mix definitely is my enemy. When it comes to writing music, if I can hear it, I can play it (in the piano roll if necessary). But when trying to mix/find a room/get everything into its own space, I'm clueless. I basically add compression, limiter, eq and reverb (all from Vienna Suite) to every track and hope for the best with blind tweaking.

ADHD is most certainly a contributor to my need to do art, because the art centers me in a way that nothing else can. It's meditation for me. If I wasn't ADHD, there's a good chance I'd be an accountant, not an artist lol.

I definitely like the idea of partnering with someone else...trying to do everything myself, I am of course only one limited talent, and with the internet, the possibilities of collaboration are mind boggling...I could work with someone half way around the world


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## AC986 (Sep 8, 2014)

^

Great post.

Daffy I think you're a Rock God!


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## dafy (Sep 8, 2014)

LOL far from it but I do have a lot of influences from the time of the guitar gods in the 80s...but being a hack with a piano roll in Cubase (too lazy/busy to keep my chops up on a real guitar) and being able to straddle a guitar with bleached hair and pink spandex are two totally different things


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## Mike Greene (Sep 8, 2014)

FWIW, I’ll bet half the guys on this site deal with ADHD issues, many of them not even knowing it. I’m far from being in the position of giving advice (I’ll spare you the details of all the incomplete projects I’ve got going,) but I’ll offer some anyway.

First, _“I’ll just try harder to finish things”_ isn't a strategy that works. It just doesn’t. (That’s doctors talking, not just me.) You have to give yourself _methods_ to overcoming ADHD challenges.

For me, that usually means giving myself incremental deadlines and putting things in place to make it so I _have_ to meet those deadlines. Scheduling a singer, for instance, makes it so I _have_ to finish writing the lyrics before the vocal session. Here's the important part: I also have to make it a policy with myself that I am never allowed, under any circumstances, to cancel or postpone a session. (Sounds kinda draconian, but I’ve learned that if I give myself an inch, I’ll take a mile. :mrgreen: )

Bill’s idea of partnering is a good one for the same reason. You won’t want to let that person down, so it will force you to finish your parts. If you take on a mixer, for instance, give him a definite date when you’ll give him the tracks to mix. (This also eliminates the dreaded _"Oh, I'll just tweak one more thing. Oh wait, and then one more thing . . . "_ trap.)

You probably already know this, but there are a bunch of really good websites out there for adults dealing with ADHD.

I like that track, by the way. i think this sort of thing would be particularly challenging to finish (as an instrumental) because it's intricacies on top of intricacies, followed by more intricacies. Finishing a track like that is basically a torture test for ADHD, because it’s much more challenging than a regular song.

So if I were you, I’d take on a partner to write a lyric and make a vocal song out it. What you have already would make a great intro, leading into a metal vocal. It can’t be too hard to find metal heads looking for a guy who can do tracks like you do, and best of all, partnering will help motivate you as well. Plus, I think you’ll get an even better song in the process. (Just my opinion, of course.)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 8, 2014)

Another point: unless you're a rare freak, music is hard for everyone whether or not you have ADHD.

But one of the grandmotherly lines a teacher at Berklee said that stuck was this: "Music pays back ten times what you put in."


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## AC986 (Sep 8, 2014)

dafy @ Mon Sep 08 said:


> But when trying to mix/find a room/get everything into its own space, I'm clueless. I basically add compression, limiter, eq and reverb (all from Vienna Suite) to every track and hope for the best with blind tweaking.



But let's not forget Dafy that blind tweaking can be our friend! Admittedly too much tweaking can actually make you go blind, but there's always that happy accident isn't there.


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## dafy (Sep 8, 2014)

Thanks guys. I'm forging ahead, since I have no choice now that I've made this public:

https://soundcloud.com/shawngibson1969/mor2etc3

Mike you've done a lot more work to be normal than I have. It's a stigma, to me, 16 years of Ritalin, 29 years of codeine to replace Ritalin. I bust my ass every day and have a good career, 15 years with the same company and 6-7 promotions...but that forces me to be focused. My private live, music for example, is a mess, because there is no structure. I don't have anyone telling me what to do, and that is hard for me.

Shawn


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 8, 2014)

By the way, I didn't mean to make light of your ADHD, dafy. It is an extra obstacle, and I sympathize.


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## dariusofwest (Sep 8, 2014)

I really like this song!


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## dafy (Sep 9, 2014)

double post


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## dafy (Sep 9, 2014)

Hey Nick, no worries, I didn't take it like that at all 

You know, sometimes you have to stand back and ask yourself, is this legitimate, or self-pity/excuse-making? There are definitely times in life when I blame ADHD (or not enough sleep, or too much beer) for something I've done or failed to do, when clearly the sole onus was my lack of discretion/laziness, or whatever else. 

But with a lot of my behaviours, with a pattern that occurs frequently over decades, you stand back and say, what gives? And why can't I take a magic pill to fix this, or afford a doctor who is more than just a pill-pusher...or whatever. 

The trick is to learn, and accept, when you are fooling yourself. The OTHER trick, is to realize that certain things are slightly or totally out of your control...you know "I was born this way and must deal with it" or "someone else or a certain circumstance was in control here and I can't control that"...that sort of thing. 

dariusofwest - thanks very much, very kind of you I'm still forging ahead. Now that I've switched from my Sennheiser home theater wireless headphones to legitimate AKG studio wired headphones, I am hearing clear issues with spatialization and eq...nothing is sitting in its own space frequency-wise or spatially. I'll be glad when I move next month, I'll be able finally to use my KRK VXT6 ref. monitors...I hate mixing/listening with headphones (the house I live in is built out of paper, and my neighbour won't even let me watch TV without complaining. Oh well...I'm moving) 

Shawn


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## dafy (Sep 14, 2014)

Gettin' there:

https://soundcloud.com/shawngibson1969/mor2etc4-no-fx-2


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## impressions (Sep 15, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Sep 08 said:


> Another point: unless you're a rare freak, music is hard for everyone whether or not you have ADHD.
> 
> But one of the grandmotherly lines a teacher at Berklee said that stuck was this: "Music pays back ten times what you put in."



when i was in berklee, back in 2000, there was scribbled on the wall of the piano training rooms-" Music is easy. i am a master" and then below it tons of "^%ck you!" "liar" etc..

lol'ed to myself moment.


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## AC986 (Sep 15, 2014)

Dafy back in the mid 60s I was a big fan of things like Freak Out by Frank Zappa. This has that sort of flavour. Love that organ type backing sound too. 

Awesome! :D

And the big drum ending.

Awesome again! :D

I would move too Dafy if the neighbour complains and what's more, I would probably torch the place as it's made of paper.

(Don't do that Dafy btw. That's just my sick humour)

Also, I've enjoyed using all these words that end in 'our' which is I know is confusing to Americans.


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## dafy (Sep 27, 2014)

Gettin' there:

https://soundcloud.com/shawngibson1969/ ... no-fx-4-01


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## dpasdernick (Sep 28, 2014)

Mike Greene @ Mon Sep 08 said:


> FWIW, I’ll bet half the guys on this site deal with ADHD issues, many of them not even knowing it.




Mike, I resent this remark. How dare you insinuate that I may be ADHD. So this squirrel ran across the road and.. well back in elementary school I had a crush on this teacher... is that coffee I smell? No really someone has a big cup of... pizza really is great for breakfast especially after a night of composing... cheese whiz and celery? Oh ya, that sounds fine but I prefer Realitone... They make a better vocal libraries than all of the other car manufactures put together including Microsoft and Playboy...

(only meant to be fun )


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## dafy (Sep 28, 2014)

dpasdernick @ Sun Sep 28 said:


> Mike, I resent this remark. How dare you insinuate that I may be ADHD. So this squirrel ran across the road and.. well back in elementary school I had a crush on this teacher... is that coffee I smell? No really someone has a big cup of... pizza really is great for breakfast especially after a night of composing... cheese whiz and celery? Oh ya, that sounds fine but I prefer Realitone... They make a better vocal libraries than all of the other car manufactures put together including Microsoft and Playboy...
> 
> (only meant to be fun )



http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4300/4300-h/4300-h.htm

The MASTER of ADHD


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## markstyles (Oct 2, 2014)

It's a known fact, a lot of musicians are different from other people.. I have always had racing thoughts, but it works out well for music, and I can hyper focus on music to the exclusion of all else for hours and days at a time.

If you think your ADHD might be holding you back, try doing Tai Chi (worked perfect for me). or Yoga (I was too impatient for that). But with practice you can learn to controlled where your mind goes and what it does. 

The music is beautiful by the way..


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## dafy (Oct 2, 2014)

markstyles @ Thu Oct 02 said:


> It's a known fact, a lot of musicians are different from other people.. I have always had racing thoughts, but it works out well for music, and I can hyper focus on music to the exclusion of all else for hours and days at a time.
> 
> If you think your ADHD might be holding you back, try doing Tai Chi (worked perfect for me). or Yoga (I was too impatient for that). But with practice you can learn to controlled where your mind goes and what it does.
> 
> The music is beautiful by the way..



Hey Mark, thanks.

It's funny, I've spent a lot of time with Buddhism, but when I went to university, I got tested again for ADHD. The doctor said I needed Ritalin again. I tried it for a bit, and hated it. Slowed me down. He also told me to never do Yoga. I guess he thought I'd self-implode. Money well spent...not.[/url]

I let a friend at work listen to what I've been writing; she plays clarinet and guitar and flute and probably any instrument she touches....an orchestra pro. She offered me some advice, so here it is...will take me months to absorb everything and finish this stream-of-conscious thing:

https://soundcloud.com/shawngibson1969/mor2etc4-no-fx-5adding-dynamics


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## markstyles (Oct 3, 2014)

I liked this piece a lot.. You are walking a different path, keep at it.. I think some of these mental conditions are exactly what make musicians what they are.. 

Yes some musicians seem perfectly balanced. Most musicians I knew had issues going on, and that's what made them good..


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## Will Blackburn (Jun 18, 2015)

dafy im add but with more of a mixing forte than composing. Can i hear your stuff? All the soundcloud links are down.


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## tav.one (Sep 22, 2017)

Mike Greene said:


> You probably already know this, but there are a bunch of really good websites out there for adults dealing with ADHD



Do you have recommendations? Ones that helped you the most?


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## Anthony (Sep 22, 2017)

dafy said:


> Yes, the mix definitely is my enemy. When it comes to writing music, if I can hear it, I can play it (in the piano roll if necessary). But when trying to mix/find a room/get everything into its own space, I'm clueless. I basically add compression, limiter, eq and reverb (all from Vienna Suite) to every track and hope for the best with blind tweaking.


Like you, I too used to conceive musical ideas, record them, get stuck at the mixing stage, become disinterested and then move onto the next song idea. This left me with hundreds of song fragments 30-60 sec in length.

Eventually I realized that my problem was that I didn't know how to mix the tracks I recorded to a full song. A friend recommended Mike Senior's Mixing Secrets For The Small Studio, I read it, and everything changed. Reading the book gave me the skills necessary to mix my own songs. Before reading it I didn't know what I was doing and, not surprisingly, my mixes sounded awful. Listening to them was very disappointing. I'd then conclude that the musical idea (as opposed to the instantiation of the idea) was the problem and would move on to the next idea thinking that it would be better.

Having learned how to mix, I'm now able to translate about 75% of my ideas to professional-sounding full mixes. And I discovered that I enjoy mixing as much as I do composing because (for me) it's where those simple 30-60 sec song fragments become complete works. You can be quite creative during the mixing stage to the point that what you end up with greatly exceeds what you conceived during the composition.

I also make a point of viewing as many "how to" videos online to incorporate new techniques. There are many talented and innovative folks out there, so there's always something new watch.

Cheers...


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