# Do you use Expression Maps in Cubase 8?



## stigc56 (May 18, 2015)

Hi
I would like to hear how many of you here at VI-Control, that use Cubase 8, actually use Expression Maps?
I struggle with the programming aspect in particular with VSL libraries. The number of key switches to control ex. a vsl solo flute is so big that I can't fit it in neither on the keyboard or the controller lane of the Key Editor.
The moment I implement a CC (VSL suggest using CC1) in the programming to switch between rows in a matrix, I can't use that controller live any more.
How do you get this to work? :(


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## Andrew Goodwin (May 18, 2015)

I use expression maps and love them. Only issue I had was that sometimes it would get stuck or hang on a specific articulation, which was still easy enough to fix. I've only used them with spitfire stuff though


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## apessino (May 18, 2015)

I use them all the time and for every library that has any sort of need for them - I even use them to control different patches in Omnisphere multis. 8) 

They are the single greatest feature Cubase ever implemented, IMHO - just the fact that you get switches that CHASE makes it invaluable.

Stick with it, make maps for a few libraries and you'll see that, once you get that hang of it, it is trivial to get exactly what you want (even if, I give you, the map editor could use a few more features...).


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## mohurwitzmusic (May 18, 2015)

One of the best features of Cubase. Used extensively. Careful not to make the map too large though or it will cover up too much of the piano roll.


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## Guy Rowland (May 18, 2015)

I'm an Expression-Map-sceptic. I've had two solid, intensive periods being coached by good patient folks here, and I failed. It's not the setting up, its the moving and manipulating them in action - I find it incredibly counter-intuitive and at some point I just start screaming and give up.

I have a little nanokey keyboard on top of my 88 note, I set the libraries to all share similar keyswitches. No expression maps - works for me.


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## chrysshawk (May 18, 2015)

I Use expression maps on everything, and it's a main differentiator vs other daws I think.

Still, the whole functionality still looks a bit like it's in development, so much could be improved. But with v9 when they are integrated with a score editor....


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## apessino (May 18, 2015)

Guy Rowland @ Mon May 18 said:


> I'm an Expression-Map-sceptic. I've had two solid, intensive periods being coached by good patient folks here, and I failed. It's not the setting up, its the moving and manipulating them in action - I find it incredibly counter-intuitive and at some point I just start screaming and give up.



Counter-intuitive to use? How exactly... once setup at a minimum you get key switches you define, with the benefit of chasing, not polluting your note data and being visible as a state in the key editor and even reflected in a the score (if you care).

You don't have to guess or remember anything, it is much more flexible to edit than key switch note data could ever be, and if you choose to go beyond and use articulations or groups you also get to subtly apply variations of related modes (such as turning on/off legato) as a state within the same logical switch.

I don't see how it could be any more intuitive or beneficial... : :wink:


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## Guy Rowland (May 18, 2015)

apessino @ Mon May 18 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Mon May 18 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm an Expression-Map-sceptic. I've had two solid, intensive periods being coached by good patient folks here, and I failed. It's not the setting up, its the moving and manipulating them in action - I find it incredibly counter-intuitive and at some point I just start screaming and give up.
> ...



I could never move them logically. I'd just want to drag and drop them from one lane to another, or shift them along say - every time it was a PITA for me.


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## apessino (May 18, 2015)

Guy Rowland @ Mon May 18 said:


> apessino @ Mon May 18 said:
> 
> 
> > Guy Rowland @ Mon May 18 said:
> ...



They are not objects that you move, they are states. You use your pencil and draw what state ("direction") should be active at any point in time, or select notes and assign "articulations" to them.

Just imagine... not having those keyswitches mixed in with your note data - having to be selected out when you transpose/transform them (or worse, logically edit them), having ALL your keyswitch notes and corresponding states right there on the inspector and then in the attributes lane. Being able to see at any time in your editor what switch is active/selected, what articulations are affecting your notes without having to look back and go find whatever keyswitch was played last (and then having to go to the instrument to figure out what that keyswitch corresponded to).

And did I mention CHASING? :D Place your play cursor in the middle of a part and it plays with the right patch without having to make sure the keyswitch gets played...

I have no idea how anyone would give that up unless they were not using Cubase in the first place, and even then I would just switch to Cubase for it. :D


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## Guy Rowland (May 18, 2015)

apessino @ Mon May 18 said:


> They are not objects that you move, they are states. You use your pencil and draw what state ("direction") should be active at any point in time, or select notes and assign "articulations" to them.



And therein lies the problem. I never liked any of that and - worse - I ended up being permanently confused and tied up in knots. It just seemed incredibly cumbersome, and like I say I had good folks here telling me what to do and not do. I forget the specifics now, but I remember ending the 2nd time saying "me and expression maps are just never going to get on".

Maybe I'm just hardwired to using keyswitches - it's very easy and simple to me to change and edit. Chasing artics would be nice, but I've developed ok workarounds.


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## Daryl (May 18, 2015)

apessino @ Mon May 18 said:


> Just imagine... not having those keyswitches mixed in with your note data - having to be selected out when you transpose/transform them (or worse, logically edit them), having ALL your keyswitch notes and corresponding states right there on the inspector and then in the attributes lane. Being able to see at any time in your editor what switch is active/selected, what articulations are affecting your notes without having to look back and go find whatever keyswitch was played last (and then having to go to the instrument to figure out what that keyswitch corresponded to).


You have a point, but selecting using the Logical Editor means that you never have to select the KS if you don't want to. You are right that seeing what KS is active could be helpful. However, I can read them from the Key Editor very easily, so that doesn't matter. All my KS are the same, so this makes it even easier.



apessino @ Mon May 18 said:


> And did I mention CHASING? :D Place your play cursor in the middle of a part and it plays with the right patch without having to make sure the keyswitch gets played...


I make all my KS pretty much legato so there is always a note on active.

Don't get me wrong, I think that Expression Maps are the future, but for the moment my KS are so organised that it is much easier to use what I'm used to, rather than move to a new method, which is actually much less powerful for complicated sequences.

D


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## Ryan (May 18, 2015)

Been using it since 2007/08 and love it. Never had any problems with it.


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## timcurry (May 18, 2015)

I use them extensively, they're great. They take a while to set up, but are worth it.

I really like how for libraries like Sable, where you have articulations in different .nkis, you can assign midi channels to the expression maps, and have 1 MIDI track controlling 2 or 3 .nki's in Kontact.

They definitely work best if you have an iPad or some other touch screen as well IMO.


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## rgames (May 18, 2015)

Expression maps are one of only two great workflow enhancers for me over the last 10 years (the other is SSDs). They do take a while to set up but once they are, they can really speed up your workflow.

There are two great things about expression maps:

1. They allow you to think in musical terms like stacc, fp, trill rather than technical terms like keyswitch, CC or MIDI channel

2. They allow you to drag and drop lines across libraries. Have one library that uses KS and one that uses CC? No problem. Expression maps remember all the details so you don't have to.

Here's an example: let's say I want to double my LASS cello line down an octave in the VSL tuba. Well, they use completely different artic switching schemes and I sure as hell can't remember what goes with what. But I know when I want stacc, legato, trill, fp, etc so all I have to do is drag and drop and the artic selection process is handled by Cubase - I need only think in musical terms, not technical terms.

Now what about that octave transpose? Well, if I were using KS then transposing the MIDI event would transpose the KS as well, not what I want. But since I'm using expression maps I just hit "T" (my shortcut for transpose) and type -12 and it's done. Again, the expression maps know that I only want to transpose the musical material, not the technical material.

If you don't come from a traditional music background or tend not to use a lot of artics then they might not be of as much use.

rgames


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## apessino (May 18, 2015)

timcurry @ Mon May 18 said:


> I use them extensively, they're great. They take a while to set up, but are worth it.
> 
> I really like how for libraries like Sable, where you have articulations in different .nkis, you can assign midi channels to the expression maps, and have 1 MIDI track controlling 2 or 3 .nki's in Kontact.
> 
> They definitely work best if you have an iPad or some other touch screen as well IMO.



Yup - I have entire instruments mapped to a single track. All of Mural First Violins on a single instrument track = totally awesome. Makes your template so much more manageable. :D


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## apessino (May 18, 2015)

rgames @ Mon May 18 said:


> 2. They allow you to drag and drop lines across libraries. Have one library that uses KS and one that uses CC? No problem. Expression maps remember all the details so you don't have to.



Great point - totally forgot to mention that! For example, every one of my instruments has a "legato sustain," it means the same thing regardless of the instrument (be it a violin, cello, horn, etc.) and even across across libraries. I can take a part played on one and move to any other.


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## mohurwitzmusic (May 18, 2015)

> There are two great things about expression maps:
> 
> 1. They allow you to think in musical terms like stacc, fp, trill rather than technical terms like keyswitch, CC or MIDI channel



This.

While I wait for someone (hopefully Daniel Spreadbury et. al) to create a notation program that is equally as powerful as a scoring application as it is a sequencer, expression maps bring me one step closer to being able to return to thinking like a proper composer. 

This is my dream and what I'm constantly striving for in all my templates and the main driving force behind my creation of Composer Tools. 

I can't wait for the day when I can say goodbye to the piano roll which, for someone like me with a traditional musical background, is extremely cumbersome.


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## mohurwitzmusic (May 18, 2015)

Here's one example.

I can't stand the fact that I need separate tracks for flugelhorn and trumpet, since in jazz usually the flugelhorn is a double. With expression maps, I can actually create 2 lanes, Trumpet and Flugelhorn, and have a "keyswitch" between them that choses which channel via the expression map output. Then you can combine the articulations Stacc + Trumpet or Stacc + Flugel via expression map groups and approximate something like the part you normally see in a printed score.


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## The Darris (May 18, 2015)

I don't have any table top devices to help manage key-switches which is why Expression Maps have become a huge part of my workflow. I like simplicity with my template which is mainly just a standard Symphonic Orchestral palette. EM's have made the simplicity that much more simple (though it does take a while to get setup). I like being able to physically see what articulations are being triggered as well as know that I can hear the correct articulation anywhere in the passage. I haven't had any issues other that tweaks to how it functions. There are some very un-intuitive elements for how the setup process works which could easily be fixed in my opinion. Other than that, works like a charm for me.


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## Carles (May 18, 2015)

I cannot imagine doing my job without expression maps.
Same than Guy, I found it unpractical at some point, directions, attributes, huge lane, etc. but...

Now I only use the lane to select all notes with a given articulation to be replaced by another.

What I'm doing is setting all articulations as attributes only rather than directions and attributes.
Like this, is not needed to have the lane visible all the time and *any articulation can be applied from the info bar*- just on top of the piano roll editor (and score view too if I recall well).
In that bar where you can read "start, end, length, pitch, etc. there is one box that says, "articulation".
Directions are not visible in this small menu but attributes (I don't know why), so if all articulations are set to attributes just click on the box and it shows you all available articulations. Just select any note/s and apply the articulations from there, so quick and easy.
Also in that box you can see what articulation is assigned to any note just by selecting the note.

The work flow with attributes only is extremely productive I find.

I also found that some articulations got stuck. It happens when a note ON message is played but interrupted before letting note OFF to be executed (I think, as it happen mostly on long notes). If at some point this becomes annoying because it happens in a moment of the piece where you're stopping/rewind often while a long note is involved, you always can create a controller lane "All notes Off" and enter a value just before the annoying point so any pressed keyswitch gets released.

I just would like that the map creation process would be more assisted (is terribly manual currently, you cannot even copy-paste data within the editor) but using an existing map and editing it can help a bit.
Other than creating/editing, expression maps are a huge time saver for me, I don't need more than one track per instrument and the work space is clean of keyswitches.

Carles


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## Jdiggity1 (May 19, 2015)

For the members (and lurkers) who are yet to dip their toes into Expression Maps yet, are there any recommended starting points, tutorials, documentation, exercises etc.?
Or is it best to just jump in at the deep end and learn to paddle by yourself?


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## DynamicK (May 19, 2015)

Jdiggity1 @ Tue May 19 said:


> For the members (and lurkers) who are yet to dip their toes into Expression Maps yet, are there any recommended starting points, tutorials, documentation, exercises etc.?
> Or is it best to just jump in at the deep end and learn to paddle by yourself?


The way I learnt was to read the manual to get the basics and then look at some of the expression maps freely available so you can see what is possible. There are many ways to set up an EM. I've just done some for Hollywood Strings / Brass which were different to the Broadway Lites I've just completed ( which was the most complicated one I've done yet) One used Midi channels, the other a combination of up to 3 KS notes.


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## The Darris (May 19, 2015)

Jdiggity1 @ Mon May 18 said:


> For the members (and lurkers) who are yet to dip their toes into Expression Maps yet, are there any recommended starting points, tutorials, documentation, exercises etc.?
> Or is it best to just jump in at the deep end and learn to paddle by yourself?



I have a "Basics" tutorial up on my youtube channel that seems to be helpful for those starting out. If you have any question about it, you can PM me anytime.

Best,

Chris

EM Tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNTNNhXrsxs


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## scarred bunny (May 19, 2015)

I am still pretty ambivalent about expression maps and can't quite decide if I think they're a fantastic convenience and time saver, or just an extra middle-layer of crap that can go wrong. 

I generally set my libraries up with one articulation per channel (for ease of layering articulations, which I think is an essential technique), so what my expression maps do is basically change midi channel to any given note. I use only attributes because then any given articulation is tied to the note itself, and I can move the note around freely without ever worrying about the articulation accidentally changing because I dragged it across a direction change or whatever. I draw everything into the controller lane, which I find is a lot faster than using the drop-down menu in the info bar - at least after setting up key commands to show/hide the controller lane and switch between various controller lane setups. This way it's very fast and easy to draw in even very complex articulation changes, or trying different arts and combinations out, and so on. Works great. 

Except when it doesn't. In practice, ever so often I find that articulations won't change properly, or that CCs don't chase properly across MIDI channels the way they should. This is less of a problem when writing because the glitches usually go away after hitting stop and play again, for whatever reason. Annoying, but no big deal. It is a bigger problem when rendering to audio though, because it only takes one glitch to ruin the whole file, because of that one time that CC1 didn't chase properly and the cellos come in playing at full blast where they should be playing PP. Very annoying. And sometimes I've had really strange things happening where it even triggers the wrong pitches - I thought it was the library at first, an incorrectly mapped round robin or something, but deleting the offending note and inserting it again - with the same expression map data - cured the problem. Very odd. Clearly there's something under the hood that isn't working quite right. 

I've never had similar problems when using the old one-midi-track-per-articulation method. No glitches, everything just works, and it's comparatively easy to set up because I don't have to bother with the very awkward expression map editor (Steinberg, please give us a way of copy-pasting settings at least - it'll save me some hair and sanity). But if you have some frankenline that requires a complex back-and-forth changing of articulations, it's comparatively slower to program. And of course, my string section grew from about 20 tracks to 200. 

Still haven't decided which I prefer. Mostly I use the expression maps. It's usually faster and easier to work around the glitches when they happen. Probably. I think. 

Expression maps work better if you use them for triggering keyswitches, I think, because then usually everything gets sent to the same instrument on the same channel and you never have to worry about controller chasing across channels. But if you use something complex like VSL with a ton of articulations, and you want to map each articulation to its own key trigger in the expression map edior, I'd imagine you run out of available keys pretty fast.

As far as learning exp maps... yeah, just read the manual to understand the basics of how it works. After that it's just a matter of experimenting until you find some setup that works for you. 

One possible tip: I always use custom names for all attributes. And always text. And I make damned sure to always, aways, always be consistent with how I name them. An attribute triggering a legato patch is always called "Legato", a sustain is always "Sustain", a short portato is always "Port S", and so on. A consistent naming scheme is essential if you want to move stuff between tracks and have the articulations transfer correctly. Obviously using the predefined names and symbols will have the same effect, I just prefer custom text myself. 

(Also, the expression map editor is best experienced with lots of whisky on hand. Otherwise I quickly lose the will to live. )


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## The Darris (May 19, 2015)

scarred bunny @ Tue May 19 said:


> (Also, the expression map editor is best experienced with lots of whisky on hand. Otherwise I quickly lose the will to live. )



This made me spit out my whiskey all over my workstation. I am currently editing some Expression Maps in my new template. :D


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## scarred bunny (May 19, 2015)

See? Whisky makes editing much more fun! :D


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## stigc56 (May 19, 2015)

Hi
Thanks for your reply.
The major part of your replies indicates that most of you use the Expression Map feature, and consider it to be a major part of the production enhancement in Cubase 8. But some of you suffer a bit from the poor programming environment, and I agree with that.
I think the success of using the VST E.M. feature is dependent of which player you are using. Kontakt is kind of more open in the structure, where Vienna Instrument Pro from VSL, dictates a certain way to "reach" the different articulations. 
In a basic Flute patch from VSL there are about 32 articulations and trying to program that with Expression Maps will take 32 keys on your keyboard.
You could argue that there are 32 free keys from the C0 and up to the range where a flute begins to sound, but it would be so much more convenient and easy to remember to make the layout more a kind of matrix consisting of *8 columns and 4 rows*, like the layout of the VI itself. 
But that can't be achieved with setup Cubase offers if you want to keep recording K.S. live from your keyboard, because you can't have a key *combination* setup as a keyswitch.


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## mohurwitzmusic (May 19, 2015)

If you need 32 articulations then there is no way around needing 32 keyswitches...if you want to use keyswitches only. 

However, you can have _categories_ of articulations and use a CC modifier or a playing velocity modifier. Have you seen this video where I set up a VSL instrument using Composer Tools? That's exactly what I'm doing there. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPN2_pN_IaI

I think the default way that VSL sets up their articulations is very bad. I think a better way is one articulation category per matrix (triggered via keyswitch), and then a CC or playing velocity modifier for row/column switching. I don't bother mapping out the CC modifier in the expression map. The expression map just gets me to the articulation category, and then I also have a CC lane open simultaneously.

It sounds complicated but it's really not. Mostly I just use the CC modifier to choose between normal articulations and repetition patches. What's neat is in Lemur I have a fader that automatically centers itself when I remove my finger. It's like a pitch-bend wheel, except it sends out the CC modifier. So once I'm done with my repetition patches I never have to worry about resetting the CC.


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## rgames (May 19, 2015)

stigc56 @ Tue May 19 said:


> But that can't be achieved with setup Cubase offers if you want to keep recording K.S. live from your keyboard, because you can't have a key *combination* setup as a keyswitch.


Maybe I don't follow but you can assign keyswitches to your artics even if the EM, itself, doesn't use KS. So, for example, you can set up an EM with CCs but then assign each artic to a given KS. Any of these EM presets can be set to any kind of combination you can program in the EM.

Of course, the KS do not appear as notes in the MIDI editor, they appear as artics (stacc, sfz, legato, etc) in the EM lane, so they don't get transposed or moved to the wrong artic when you drag to another instrument that uses a different EM.

Instead, the KS are used only for live playing. That's how I have all of my EM set up.

rgames


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## drymcore_music (Jun 9, 2015)

This might be an advanced question / idea of using Expression Maps, but i have the feeling it is the right place to ask.


I created a new Expression Map for the Embertone Fischer Viola. The instrument has several "layers" of Keyswitches not related to each other (Articulation, Sordino On/Off, Bow position, Vibrato Type etc.).

So i picked the four categories most important to me and grouped them in the 4 groups Expression maps offer me (as Direction). It all looks great, i can edit them 4 regions independently in the editor window and each keyswitch works as it should when i test it live. BUT: when i prepare some switches for all groups (simultaneously) and press play the instrument only reacts to the information in group 1.

Out of curiosity i then changed all events from DIRECTION to ATTRIBUTE. Now it´s working as it should. I could live with it but DIRECTION is what i wanted to have, it´s way more comfortable (especially when jumping back and forth while editing) and way more clearly laid out.

Is this a bug / non working feature? Or is it only possible to have one (two?) layer of DIRECTIONS? Maybe i´m missing something.

Thank you very much in advance!

[I could of course upload the two versions of the Expression Map if someone has the Viola and wants to see for himself]


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## The Darris (Jun 9, 2015)

drymcore_music @ Tue Jun 09 said:


> This might be an advanced question / idea of using Expression Maps, but i have the feeling it is the right place to ask.
> 
> 
> I created a new Expression Map for the Embertone Fischer Viola. The instrument has several "layers" of Keyswitches not related to each other (Articulation, Sordino On/Off, Bow position, Vibrato Type etc.).
> ...



Well, the key to remember about Expression Maps is that it was designed as a way to show you what articulations and playing styles are to be used for sections (directional) and individual notes (Attribute).

Unfortunately, you can't do what you want. That would require to have a polyphonic capabilities with Expression Maps. I tried making one a while back for the Blakus Cello and felt that they didn't work well with that type of instrument. My best bet was to setup the maps to change between the articulations only and rely on the Key Editor to change between legato,sul pont, sondino, etc.


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## givemenoughrope (Jun 9, 2015)

How many expressions can you cram into one map? I have one map for each legato patch of Adagio strings but I've though about cramming them all into one. Especially that C8 is acting wacky for me after about 400 midi tracks.


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