# IATSE Strike



## davidnaroth (Sep 23, 2021)

I was surprised I hadnt seen any posts about the impending strike by the IATSE on here (or maybe Ive just missed them) but I wanted to open up a discussion since in many ways it does relate to our community of composers and how "new media" has been a term that definitely impacts our BMI, ASCAP, or Other Royalty Distributions. I personally am for the strike, it may not impact us directly at first (or maybe it will) but I think its a step in the right direction for fair payment on streaming royalties. I laugh at what I see on my statements sometimes, Network is about 1100% more than my streaming royalties from all streaming combined. "New Media" is an outdated term. Streaming is not an experiment anymore, they know theyre going to make revenue, and as the years go on, streaming will overtake Network and Cable.


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## jonathanparham (Sep 24, 2021)

I was searching the forum myself. I am part of a local and our president and business managers have hit a wall with producers so the strike is a tool they want in their toolbox as they negotiate. In terms of music, I see the potential for editorial and post houses to take a hit or at least be shorthanded for a while. So it could be like the writer's strike in 2008 or last year's pandemic. Stuff already in the can may keep going but new projects may take a while IF a strike happens.

New Media designation is an iffy designation. In my union's jurisdiction, Amazon has 11 new projects slated. They're all listed as new media so the Area Standards Agreement treats it like a newbie show so the very lowest scale pay rates.

This strike, imo, has very real potential. I'm watching and hearing folks who have decades of experience in production and post encouraging their guilds and union members to vote for the 'authority' to strike.


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## davidnaroth (Sep 24, 2021)

jonathanparham said:


> I was searching the forum myself. I am part of a local and our president and business managers have hit a wall with producers so the strike is a tool they want in their toolbox as they negotiate. In terms of music, I see the potential for editorial and post houses to take a hit or at least be shorthanded for a while. So it could be like the writer's strike in 2008 or last year's pandemic. Stuff already in the can may keep going but new projects may take a while IF a strike happens.
> 
> New Media designation is an iffy designation. In my union's jurisdiction, Amazon has 11 new projects slated. They're all listed as new media so the Area Standards Agreement treats it like a newbie show so the very lowest scale pay rates.
> 
> This strike, imo, has very real potential. I'm watching and hearing folks who have decades of experience in production and post encouraging their guilds and union members to vote for the 'authority' to strike.


Yeah definitely, "New Media" with show budgets in the 10s of millions is so absurd. The quality of streaming "originals" has vastly improved, yet the pay hasnt. If the strike did happen and my show stopped because of it, sure that would suck for a little, but I could wait it out for a better future. I'm lucky enough to have my sampling company as income to support me during that time if it comes. The wildest thing about it is that composers feel like the forgotten children of the film industry. No union, anything that isnt a huge budget can pay next to nothing, and even huge budget shows can still pay pennies. I've been doing this for about 4 years independently and full time and it is sometimes discouraging to think about my future career.


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## jonathanparham (Sep 24, 2021)

davidnaroth said:


> Yeah definitely, "New Media" with show budgets in the 10s of millions is so absurd. The quality of streaming "originals" has vastly improved, yet the pay hasnt. If the strike did happen and my show stopped because of it, sure that would suck for a little, but I could wait it out for a better future. I'm lucky enough to have my sampling company as income to support me during that time if it comes. The wildest thing about it is that composers feel like the forgotten children of the film industry. No union, anything that isnt a huge budget can pay next to nothing, and even huge budget shows can still pay pennies. I've been doing this for about 4 years independently and full time and it is sometimes discouraging to think about my future career.


Oh hey just caught the name. I have Rhythmus and Dark Motion. 

Regarding the strike, it's a contract for Three years affecting not only pay rates but also health benefits. 
Well, there have been good discussions on VI about historically where composers have gone the independent contractor route as opposed to staying part of a guild/union. I wanna say that was the 70's maybe? As I get older, sometimes the health and quality of life issue outweigh the pay rate.

I think Bruce Boughton did a push to try to get composers into the teamster unions (their benefits and pay is incredible)

IMO I wonder if as composers we need to think more as independent artists/brands as opposed to I'm working for production, studio, publisher etc. When my gig went on hiatus during the pandemic I started looking at how different creatives were marketing themselves. I'm trying to learn more.


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## Mike Greene (Sep 24, 2021)

I don't know much about the specific issues here, but from a strategic standpoint, I would guess that the timing of this is an advantage for the union, since so many productions have been out of production from Covid that studios are more desperate than they might normally be.


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## davidnaroth (Sep 24, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> @davidnaroth Unless you object, I'm going to move this to the Working in the Industry forum. I suppose there's risk that the anti-union fanatics could turn the thread into a mess, but I would just delete all of those, so the thread could stay focused. Your call, though.


Hey Mike Absolutely! I was originally going to post it in there but wasnt sure which to do


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## Mike Greene (Sep 24, 2021)

ADMIN NOTE - I've moved this thread from the Political Section into the main forum, since I think the topic is also relevant to us. Plus there may be insight into the challenges of creating a composers union, which is a question that often comes up.

I ask that this thread not turn political, though. So for those who are inclined to man the anti-union battle stations, or are inclined to rambling posts about unions in general, please avoid this thread. That's not to say this thread should be pro-union either, but it would be best if the thread stays in a direction that's interesting to everyone, rather than a full on debate or venting.


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Sep 24, 2021)

No dog in this fight, but as I pointed out in other threads, on the matter of new media royalties the idea that congress, as currently constituted, is going to side with artists over tech is *delusional*. Congress will continue to shirk their Article 1 § 8 duties, and there is no recourse due to the political allegiances of nearly all pertinent ASCAP/BMI/IATSE/SAG-AFTRA members.


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## davidnaroth (Sep 24, 2021)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> No dog in this fight, but as I pointed out in other threads, on the matter of new media royalties the idea that congress, as currently constituted, is going to side with artists over tech is *delusional*. Congress will continue to shirk their Article 1 § 8 duties, and there is no recourse due to the political allegiances of nearly all pertinent ASCAP/BMI/IATSE/SAG-AFTRA members.


yeah, the political side of it is definitely against us :/


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## dylanmixer (Sep 26, 2021)

I'm not keeping up with all of this. Can someone explain what's going on to me like I'm 6?


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## jonathanparham (Sep 28, 2021)

dylanmixer said:


> I'm not keeping up with all of this. Can someone explain what's going on to me like I'm 6?


IATSE International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees has not come to an agreement on the renewal of contract with the AMPTP Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers. There is a national vote happening Friday for the 'authority' or permission to strike. IATSE wants to walk into the meeting with AMPTP and say 'or else.' The teamsters, SAG, AFTRA, and WGA are all in public agreement with IATSE. IF a strike happens, it could mean a slow down of movies/TV shows being made. I am a member of IATSE (sound recordist day job here) and I'm not angry but I can tell the potential for a strike is very real. This could cause a slow down say in a few months for sound designers and composers. Don't be fooled by some of the trades saying it won't affect HBO or some other streaming service.


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## Daren Audio (Oct 4, 2021)

Here's the latest news that may affect everyone across the board.









“Unsustainable and Unhealthy”: As IATSE Workers Go Public, Pressure Mounts on Studios Amid Looming Strike


As film and TV production ramps up after pandemic shutdowns and this year’s "Great Resignation" ripples across the broader job market, Hollywood crewmembers say over-12-hour workdays, short rest periods and under-$18-an-hour rates are "just cruel."




www.hollywoodreporter.com


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## gsilbers (Oct 4, 2021)

So how is this going ? Is there going to be a strike?
The Facebook groups for tv film stuff is barely mentioned or anyone commenting. I don’t think they have a strong Union tbh. Since so many productions have left Los Angeles, it seems the power they had diminished. Maybe?


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## hoxclab (Oct 4, 2021)

They'll never strike because they will be replaced easily with people who will put up with the terms. Unions everywhere are largely emasculated.


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## davidnaroth (Oct 4, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> They'll never strike because they will be replaced easily with people who will put up with the terms. Unions everywhere are largely emasculated.


depends if its a union show/film or not. Anything non union would continue business as usual, but union shows would be shutdown till some sort of agreement was reached. There also is the possibility, if the strike was authorized, they would give a last chance to meet terms before the strike actually happened. So even if the strike does get voted in, doesnt necessarily mean it will actually happen.


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## jonathanparham (Oct 4, 2021)

The vote for strike 'authorization' has happened over the weekend. The vote was 98%+ for the authorization. IATSE will now go back to AMPTP. A strike will depend on what the AMPTP does at this point


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## thebeesknees22 (Oct 4, 2021)

yeah like @jonathanparham said. It's just a vote for authorization to go on strike. They'll go back to the negotiation table. If the studios are willing to work with them then they'll work out a deal. If not then it'll most likely go down. 

I'm in vfx for my real job so I'm not sure how this will affect things in the near term if they do. I don't think it'll be quite as bad as the writer's strike back in the day, but mmmm...... it'll hit quicker than the writer's strike too since editors will strike for a lot of projects that are heavily IP in editorial. ...I mean any project that's not 2 months from delivery is heavily in editorial anymore since they can never get their stuff together amiright? lol

I think it's 50/50 on it happening. The studio's have a boat load of projects IP right now that they won't want delayed. On the other hand, the studio's won't want to budge until it hurts too much. I know client side is trying to rush out turnovers to the vfx side as fast as they can in case the strike does happen. So FWTW, if they're rushing to get ahead of it, it has a real chance of happening.

I think I'll go stock up on mac n cheese and rice just in case to get me through the winter lol jk


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## hoxclab (Oct 4, 2021)

davidnaroth said:


> depends if its a union show/film or not. Anything non union would continue business as usual, but union shows would be shutdown till some sort of agreement was reached. There also is the possibility, if the strike was authorized, they would give a last chance to meet terms before the strike actually happened. So even if the strike does get voted in, doesnt necessarily mean it will actually happen.


Exactly my point. They are already at the point of negotiating after voting to strike. I believe it is highly unlikely they will end up striking but who knows in todays climate. But I highly doubt it.


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## jonathanparham (Oct 4, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> They'll never strike because they will be replaced easily with people who will put up with the terms. Unions everywhere are largely emasculated.


lol well maybe not the teamsters.


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## hoxclab (Oct 4, 2021)

jonathanparham said:


> lol well maybe not the teamsters.


We'll see if IATSE strikes. Do you believe they will? Asking for permission to strike usually doesn't end in a strike.


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## jonathanparham (Oct 5, 2021)

hoxclab said:


> We'll see if IATSE strikes. Do you believe they will? Asking for permission to strike usually doesn't end in a strike.


I don't know. The question for me is what will Producers do. Keep in mind this is very different, as been discussed on VI, from being an independent contractor who is a song writer or composer. IATSE covers so many production people not just in CA or NY, but in other media tax incentive states like Atlanta and Louisiana. Also, we're talking about people who make films and tv 'go.' The news outlets I'm hearing is not quite accurate. This is labor for 'below the line crew' Gaffers, grips, sound, carpenters, scenics, even craft service that supply coffee and donuts on set. My guild is ready to walk. IATSE has never gone on strike before, and location filming is going full speed to make up for the pandemic. Personally, I'm hoping this is just a big game of chicken and AMPTP will cough up more on hours and benefits. Notice it's not about the hourly 'amount' of pay, but the amount of hours.


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## chimuelo (Oct 5, 2021)

Getting into group insurance with the Teamsters is a wise move.

Years back the Carpenters Union broke away from the AFL-CIO and since have offered Musicians Union members into their group buy.

Before that being a Union Member had little to nothing in benefits other than burial, as if you could prove that. You’ll pay a monthly out of pocket fee but vision and dental were unlimited a while back.

Theres always a bean counter deciding if your claims are cosmetic, but even a couple fillings or root canals make it a great bargain.

Go Teamsters..


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## thebeesknees22 (Oct 5, 2021)

jonathanparham said:


> ... Notice it's not about the hourly 'amount' of pay, but the amount of hours.


Yeah, there's so much work going on right now it's been brutal on the vfx side too. We're bleeding people who are leaving the industry because they're getting burnt out. I myself have done 60-90hrs since late April. I finally had my first 45hr week last week since then last week, but we're going to ramp up hard again soon. I know others who've been in the same boat or worse.

I don't doubt it's just as bad on the client side. 

It's rough. There's way more work right now than there are experienced people, and the experienced people are getting so fried they're leaving. That's just compounding the problem, because you can't run a big show with junior talent. No doubt the same goes for the client side too. 

I wish we had a union on the vfx side too, but we have too many ego's on our end to ever pull together as a group. lol


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## davidnaroth (Oct 5, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> Yeah, there's so much work going on right now it's been brutal on the vfx side too. We're bleeding people who are leaving the industry because they're getting burnt out. I myself have done 60-90hrs since late April. I finally had my first 45hr week last week since then last week, but we're going to ramp up hard again soon. I know others who've been in the same boat or worse.
> 
> I don't doubt it's just as bad on the client side.
> 
> ...


Its nice theres sooo much work going around, but yeah its definitely unsustainable


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## thebeesknees22 (Oct 5, 2021)

it's definitely been an awesome time for artists to get their rates up! haha


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## RSK (Oct 5, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> So for those who are inclined to man the anti-union battle stations, or are inclined to rambling posts about unions in general, please avoid this thread. That's not to say this thread should be pro-union either, but it would be best if the thread stays in a direction that's interesting to everyone, rather than a full on debate or venting.


I'm generally not a fan of unions, but I support the IATSE on this one. Conditions for crew need to improve, and now.


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## jonathanparham (Oct 13, 2021)

Well IATSE just said, 'Or Else'

https://iatse.net/strike-date-set-for-60000-film-and-television-workers/


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## thebeesknees22 (Oct 13, 2021)

Well.... Shoot. 

I like how they have a countdown timer and everything lol

I'm not surprised though. The way the clients were trying to push turnovers to us in a rush made me think that it was a real possibility.


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## Gingerbread (Oct 13, 2021)

Curious what people here think....who has the bigger leverage here? Can a full nationwide IATSE strike actually break the will of the producers/huge corporations? Which side has the ability to successfully withstand a lengthy strike long enough to force the other side to concede?


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## thebeesknees22 (Oct 13, 2021)

given that editors are with the IATSE I'd say they have enough pull. Sure you could find another body I guess. But you need someone with experience and talent, and that's not easy to find. 

I can't say who can last longer in a strike. The studios want to push out so much content right now they won't want to wait long if things start shutting down. I think they'd concede at some point. 

I just don't know how long members of the IATSE can hold out after the covid shutdowns happened.

..we shall see!


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## hoxclab (Oct 13, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> Curious what people here think....who has the bigger leverage here? Can a full nationwide IATSE strike actually break the will of the producers/huge corporations? Which side has the ability to successfully withstand a lengthy strike long enough to force the other side to concede?


I doubt it. Look how many people are in media creation. Look how many people are out of work or working from home. There is, as Marx termed a reserve army of labour, not only in media creation but outside of media creation that would fill the gaps. People are even paying to be able to be on projects. Reverse internships exist. The population keeps growing and everyone and their momma wants to be famous and in the "industry."


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## thebeesknees22 (Oct 13, 2021)

I'm...mmm... not sure I agree with that.

Sure you can replace lower level people. It's those really experienced, really good people that aren't easily replaceable. And having those really good and experienced people can make a world of difference on a show.

Also sure, a lot of people want to be in the industry. But only a few out of those many can withstand the pressure and stress. I've seen so many wash out over the years. It takes a special type of person to work in film or tv no matter which department they're in. *cough: be a glutton for punishment. ha 

But that's just been my experience in post production.


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## thebeesknees22 (Oct 15, 2021)

The latest news: 









IATSE Tells Members “Assume There Will Be A Strike”; Union Prepares Latest Contact Proposal For AMPTP As Monday Deadline Looms


EXCLUSIVE: Hollywood is on the precipice tonight as talks between IATSE and the AMPTP continue in the hope of averting a strike early next week that could bring most of the industry to a standstill…




deadline.com


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## Gingerbread (Oct 15, 2021)

It’s interesting how little media attention this potential massive strike has gotten. It’s almost as if the media (which is largely the same corps that own the studios) doesn’t want attention on labor flexing its considerable muscle.


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## jonathanparham (Oct 15, 2021)

Was out scouting for my latest show today. Believe me , people are ready to walk. The producer of the show said well all know Monday morning


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## Gingerbread (Oct 16, 2021)

Just announced....the strike is averted, the studios caved, and IATSE got pretty much everything they were asking for.

Great news!


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## jonathanparham (Oct 16, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> Just announced....the strike is averted, the studios caved, and IATSE got pretty much everything they were asking for.
> 
> Great news!


crap beat me to it. I got distracted by the staffpad thread lol. I received an email from my guild about two hours ago. We'll see. What I read was 'basic' agreement. The strike Monday was a work stoppage. BUT now we'll see how the gig goes and what's honored.


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## Gingerbread (Oct 16, 2021)

jonathanparham said:


> crap beat me to it. I got distracted by the staffpad thread lol. I received an email from my guild about two hours ago. We'll see. What I read was 'basic' agreement. The strike Monday was a work stoppage. BUT now we'll see how the gig goes and what's honored.


Well I might've celebrated too soon. Some are saying that many in the rank-and-file don't think it goes far enough, and may not vote to ratify it. I guess we'll see what happens.


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## jneebz (Oct 16, 2021)

Massive strike averted: Hollywood crews reach a new three-year deal with studios


The International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees and the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers announced a new three-year contract.




www.cnbc.com


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## thebeesknees22 (Oct 16, 2021)

it is finished. 

no take backs's. I'm gonna go buy some real food tomorrow since I don't have to live off mac 'n cheese and ramen now. lol


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## mscp (Oct 18, 2021)

If only some people stopped advocating/thinking like:

"If you want to work in it, you must do it 24/7, have no life, no family, no nothing, and pour your life and soul into it..."
"If you're not doing it 24/7, you're not passionate enough."
(among several other BS)

And started to think like:
"Let's see what we can do to come up with better ways to demand a better remuneration across all areas of the industry...because a lot of people are developing extremely unhealthy lifestyles in order to keep working in it..."

The mentality needs to change, for things to begin to change.


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## thebeesknees22 (Oct 18, 2021)

well that and the show runners need to realize that working 14-16hrs a day has diminishing returns on the quality of work they'll get. After a certain threshold the quality drops, and so does output. More mistakes happen etc...


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## hoxclab (Oct 18, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> Curious what people here think....who has the bigger leverage here? Can a full nationwide IATSE strike actually break the will of the producers/huge corporations? Which side has the ability to successfully withstand a lengthy strike long enough to force the other side to concede?


Looks like they negotiated like a bunch of softies.


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## jonathanparham (Oct 18, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> well that and the show runners need to realize that working 14-16hrs a day has diminishing returns on the quality of work they'll get. After a certain threshold the quality drops, and so does output. More mistakes happen etc...


Dude A couple of years ago, I spoke with the showrunner on a series I did and it's like. . . I dunno man, they have their own hurdles in this streaming era. The writer-director thing of the 90s is on steroids now. The showrunners are as much stars as the actors on-screen are. The studios are also demanding a crap ton of products AND results from them. They're creatives like us as composers and sound designers but they're thrown into these productions settings where they have to 'manage' the product. Some have the mettle and background; others don't IMO. Things are way out of proportion now. Not saying art isn't being created in all this stuff but things are way different. Sorry, tired, and rambling.


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## JJP (Oct 18, 2021)

jonathanparham said:


> (re: show runners) The studios are also demanding a crap ton of products AND results from them. They're creatives like us as composers and sound designers but they're thrown into these productions settings where they have to 'manage' the product.


The studios have seen streaming as an opportunity to shift the game in their favor over the last few years. They have been passing ridiculous amounts of responsibility down the line without compensating people for it. Then if they can get away with it with one group of workers, they use that as an excuse to force other workers to accept a bad deal. I literally heard the AMPTP argue in negotiations that it would be "an insult" to another guild if they granted something because the other guild demanded it and failed. (Yes, that was literally said in negotiations by the AMPTP.)

IATSE has been pushed to the point that some of their people are facing life and death issues, and they were still getting pushback on simple cost-of-living raises that didn't even keep up with inflation. They were fed up and ready to walk if they didn't get relief because it was no longer worth it to keep working. That's why they had 90% of their members vote and 98% of those votes in favor of authorizing a strike.

I don't think many people here grasp what a large part of the production industry IATSE represents. A strike would have shut down production stages, scoring stages, edit bays, prop houses, and more. Hardly anything could get done, and, no, there wasn't an army of people waiting to take their place. That's why the studios blinked.

Now we'll have to see if the members are satisfied with the deal that was struck. I have a feeling they will accept it, but this is somewhat new territory so it's not certain.


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## jonathanparham (Oct 19, 2021)

JJP said:


> I don't think many people here grasp what a large part of the production industry IATSE represents. A strike would have shut down, production stages, scoring stages, edit bays, prop houses, and more. Hardly anything could get done, and, no, there wasn't an army of people waiting to take their place. That's why the studios blinked.
> 
> Now we'll have to see if the members are satisfied with the deal that was struck. I have a feeling they will accept it, but this is somewhat new territory so it's not certain.


Amen


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## JJP (Oct 23, 2021)

The news coming out today about the conditions around the accidental shooting on the set for Rust are both heart-wrenching and infuriating. It's sounding like there was pressure to work long hours, things were being rushed, and the crew was complaining about problems with safety protocols before the accident.

This is why we have unions. This is why striking is the most important, even if least used, tool in labor. These things matter, and people's lives can be at stake.

It's not just about weapons. I've worked as a musician on dozens of live TV shows. There have been pyrotechnics on set, long hours, and heavy equipment moving around. There are dangers to these things, and we must have the ability to stand up and protect each other.

Even as a musician, I've been in situations where I am relying on someone else for my safety (up on a scaffold, under a moving stage, working in dark spaces with sharp edges and drop-offs) and have been thankful that safety protocols are in place. I have seen things go wrong and people get hurt, but thankfully things like union safety protocols prevented any serious injuries.

People need to be properly compensated, be able to do their work in safety on site, and not suffer effects from their work afterwards. Exhaustion takes a fatal toll as well through on-site accidents, car accidents, and long-term health problems. These are the things that are driving IATSE in these negotiations.

We make art and entertainment. No one should have to die, suffer long-term damage, or be exploited for what we do.


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## jonathanparham (Oct 23, 2021)

Agreed @JJP. I spoke with someone yesterday on my current gig who was out there and quit a while ago. Said it was way too much work for the pay. I'm still stunned. Done a lot of gigs with firearms, there are so many protocols before someone takes a shot. My gut instinct is someone was rushing around and/or didn't walk through checklists. I mean even a rubber gun on a film set has a protocol. Any loss of life is a problem, but I'm curious why the cinematographer was operating the camera at this point. It could have been a style choice and she wanted to capture the 'moment' but given the stories I'm hearing about the gig, perhaps no one else wanted to do the shot. But back to the unions; yes this is why I was willing to strike; safety.


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