# Spaces 2....



## OleJoergensen

I just saw on FB that Spaces 2 will be released the 23. Juli. 
The GUI looks very good...
http://www.soundsonline.com/spaces-II


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## N.Caffrey

Looks great!


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## muk

Cool. So they added control over the length of the tail (which is an important feature), and a few more IRs. That and a new GUI (which looks as it might have been inspired by Altiverb). That's probably all that was needed anyways, but nothing out of the ordinary either. As to july 23, I'll believe it when I see it.


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## Pablocrespo

I would like to know if there will be a discount for space 1 users, and if ilok1 will work.


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## Tice

I just recently got Spaces 1... Wish they'd have advertised this a little earlier.


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## Consona

Free update?


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## fretti

"An upgrade will be available for SPACES *I* users."
It says under overview. But not how much of a discount or if differently handled /completely free etc. so far...
And also not if only for buyers through Soundsonline or also third party sites...as I for example bought through Time+Space...


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## Tice

Yeah, I'm always skeptical about caviats when they mention stuff like that.


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## N.Caffrey

Gosh. I have Spaces 1. Just got Seventh Heaven..wonder if I'll be tempted to upgrade. Although EW does sales quite often anyway right?


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## playz123

Re: "FILTER: This allows users to limit the frequencies sent to the reverb, you can high-pass, low-pass, or both. When selected, a frequency response graphic will appear in the center window."
Wondering if the curves are controllable, For example, can the high pass filter be adjusted or is it just a set curve?


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## Jdiggity1

playz123 said:


> Re: "FILTER: This allows users to limit the frequencies sent to the reverb, you can high-pass, low-pass, or both. When selected, a frequency response graphic will appear in the center window."
> Wondering if the curves are controllable, For example, can the high pass filter be adjusted or is it just a set curve?


Based on how Spaces 1 works, and what I can see of the GUI in the video for Spaces II, I expect these are not adjustable curves.
Simply HPF or LPF On/Off, and set the frequency.


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## CT

"St. Patrick's" as in St. Patrick's in New York City? That alone would probably make this a must-buy for me.


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## John Busby

sweet, Ryan Taubert's music is backing the trailer... good choice


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## desert

I expected more control knobs tbh. Decay time is great but they could have added more customisation.


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## tmhuud

desert said:


> I expected more control knobs tbh. Decay time is great but they could have added more customisation.



yes. I agree.


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## Leon Portelance

I have Altiverb 7 and Spaces I. Don’t need it but I will probably get Spaces II.


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## AllanH

Looking forward to Spaces II. I have Spaces on just about everything.


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## Josh Richman

It’s great the way it is! (Vi-controllers stop asking and complaining for more knobs! Your not understanding the magic of these IRs.) Now hoping for an upgrade path for spaces 1 owners and through in play 6 for us too!!


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## Ashermusic

Nick once told me that he believes that all the controls added to some other reverbs comes at a sonic cost and so he wanted Spaces to be all about pristine and great sound. I can’t speak to the empirical accuracy of his belief. What I CAN say is that when I swapped out the Altiverb 7 instances in my orchestral template with Spaces the sound was noticeably clearer less muddy.


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## muziksculp

I tend to use Algorithmic Reverbs on Orchestral Mixes, I rarely use Spaces, or other IR based Reverbs. 

I think one reason is I find Algorithmic Reverbs more tweakable to taste, anyways.. I think I should give EW-Spaces a go, and compare it to my Algorithmic Reverbs, maybe I will be tempted to get Spaces 2 if I'm convinced. I know many here like using EW Spaces.


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## Sami

Ashermusic said:


> Nick once told me that he believes that all the controls added to some other reverbs comes at a sonic cost and so he wanted Spaces to be all about pristine and great sound. I can’t speak to the empirical accuracy of his belief. What I CAN say is that when I swapped out the Altiverb 7 instances in my orchestral template with Spaces the sound was noticeably clearer less muddy.



I always thought I was the only one in the world who thought that. I almost feel guilty for it, but I also think Spaces has a certain clarity or maybe „mood“ to it that Altiverb lacks...


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## jtnyc

Just saw this on Time and Space site. That seems like quite a price increase from version 1.


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## bvaughn0402

I haven't heard anyone mention HD Cart by Reverb Foundry: https://www.reverbfoundry.com/hd-cart/

Although ... I do plan on getting Spaces 2 ...


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## will_m

jtnyc said:


> Just saw this on Time and Space site. That seems like quite a price increase from version 1.



Ouch, yeah I can't remember exactly what I payed for Spaces but I don't think it was more than $200. Here's hoping for a cheaper upgrade option.


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## desert

jtnyc said:


> Just saw this on Time and Space site. That seems like quite a price increase from version 1.


We should have all showed a lack of interest so they'd reduce the price :(


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## fretti

Wasn‘t the original price of spaces 1 260$ + taxes?
Also might just be a place holder, as they put it on there as sold out, and I don‘t think they know more than anyone else. 
Before tomorrow we can‘t be sure anyways


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## jcrosby

jtnyc said:


> Just saw this on Time and Space site. That seems like quite a price increase from version 1.


Yeah, that price is greedy for a UI update and a few extra impulses...



fretti said:


> Also might just be a place holder, as they put it on there as sold out, and I don‘t think they know more than anyone else.



Software sold out? (Before even released?) FAT CHANCE.

Not a typo either, I've seen other software companies and vendors pull this same nonsense with BS like '*LIMITED STOCK!!!'*.
HTF is a piece of software _limited stock_? Does that isht run on blockchain??
It's just a ploy to manipulate buyers into making a panic purchase.
Every time I want to get right with EW something like this gets in the way...


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## Quantum Leap

Hi guys. I imagine the sold out is because it’s not out yet. I mean it’s a digital download, right? I don’t have anything to do with pricing, but I’ll say this. 

Spaces 2 was going to be a whole new product with just the new impulses. Once we started testing, we realized that an improved interface was warranted. The ability to shorten the impulses is a good feature. And the old interface was too big. At that point it became obvious that we should also include the old stuff because of the improved interface. I went all out on the new impulses. Every location was an 8-10 hour process with the best Hollywood film-score style recording rig you could imagine. The whole thing was done the way I did So. Cal. hall in spaces 1. It’s deep and plentiful. Instrument specific reverbs in surround. Lots of epic stuff. Spaces 2 is all good will. Even more of what made Spaces 1 popular.


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## desert

Quantum Leap said:


> Hi guys. I imagine the sold out is because it’s not out yet. I mean it’s a digital download, right? I don’t have anything to do with pricing, but I’ll say this.
> 
> Spaces 2 was going to be a whole new product with just the new impulses. Once we started testing, we realized that an improved interface was warranted. The ability to shorten the impulses is a good feature. And the old interface was too big. At that point it became obvious that we should also include the old stuff because of the improved interface. I went all out on the new impulses. Every location was an 8-10 hour process with the best Hollywood film-score style recording rig you could imagine. The whole thing was done the way I did So. Cal. hall in spaces 1. It’s deep and plentiful. Instrument specific reverbs in surround. Lots of epic stuff. Spaces 2 is all good will. Even more of what made Spaces 1 popular.


Thanks, Nick, for your incredible hard work to produce another reverb product. I have bought so many reverb plugins but I always find myself returning to Spaces. Hope this is another successful plugin made by you :D


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## Francis Bourre

I will play with the demo if there's one, but I admit I feel a bit less concerned after checking the price. If there's a fair crossgrade and I can feel concrete advantages to get the V2, I could be tempted. Let's see!


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## jamwerks

Keep in mind that EW is pretty much always 50% off. So you can probably cut that price in half. Probably 99 bucks for Spaces 1 owners.


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## AllanH

Quantum Leap said:


> ...
> Spaces 2 was going to be a whole new product with just the new impulses. Once we started testing, we realized that an improved interface was warranted. The ability to shorten the impulses is a good feature. And the old interface was too big. At that point it became obvious that we should also include the old stuff because of the improved interface. I went all out on the new impulses. Every location was an 8-10 hour process with the best Hollywood film-score style recording rig you could imagine. The whole thing was done the way I did So. Cal. hall in spaces 1. It’s deep and plentiful. Instrument specific reverbs in surround. Lots of epic stuff. Spaces 2 is all good will. Even more of what made Spaces 1 popular.



Thanks for sharing more of the technical details (the web site has many more). I especially like the instrument-specific reverbs. It's subtle, but significant, when applied to an entire orchestra.


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## jcrosby

Francis Bourre said:


> f there's a fair crossgrade and I can feel concrete advantages to get the V2, I could be tempted. Let's see!


I'd hope so. Paying $400 for a bunch of the same content wouldn't be cool...
The single license per purchase policy is archaic though. Paying twice for a product you've already bought is no good... And subscribing to a product you also already own is equally bad...

Frankly, this is the only real axe to grind I've had with EW. Considering it isn't uncommon to break the diamond series up over more than one machine the least they could do is give you two licenses per purchase.


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## axb312

Comparing to other similar products, we have:

Fog Convolver - 65 USD
Reverberate 2 - 125 USD
MConvolutionMB - 59 USD
Hofa IQ Verb - 175 USD

What justifies the significantly higher price of Spaces (1 for now) compared to these offerings?


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## MarcelM

axb312 said:


> Comparing to other similar products, we have:
> 
> Fog Convolver - 65 USD
> Reverberate 2 - 125 USD
> MConvolutionMB - 59 USD
> Hofa IQ Verb - 175 USD
> 
> What justifies the significantly higher price of Spaces (1 for now) compared to these offerings?



dont forget seventh heaven. kind of follow up of reverberate 2, but it sounds really awesome. imho the best convolution reverb out atm.


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## axb312

Heroix said:


> dont forget seventh heaven. kind of follow up of reverberate 2, but it sounds really awesome. imho the best convolution reverb out atm.



I wouldn't include seventh heaven here because from what I've read and understood the IRs are recorded from a Bricasti M7 only, and not actual spaces...


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## MarcelM

axb312 said:


> I wouldn't include seventh heaven here because from what I've read and understood the IRs are recorded from a Bricasti M7 only, and not actual spaces...



hmmm ok. its still a convolution reverb and it gets very close to the real thing which alot of people consider the best HW reverb?


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## jamwerks

7th Heaven isn't a static convolution like these "standard" spacial reverbs. QL's info above makes me think this will be a great plug-in.


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## Shad0wLandsUK

He 23rd is moving along...
This could be another HW Choirs...?


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## Time+Space

jcrosby said:


> Yeah, that price is greedy for a UI update and a few extra impulses...
> 
> 
> 
> Software sold out? (Before even released?) FAT CHANCE.
> 
> Not a typo either, I've seen other software companies and vendors pull this same nonsense with BS like '*LIMITED STOCK!!!'*.
> HTF is a piece of software _limited stock_? Does that isht run on blockchain??
> It's just a ploy to manipulate buyers into making a panic purchase.
> Every time I want to get right with EW something like this gets in the way...




Hi Jcrosby, it says 'sold out' on the T+S site as it's not been released yet and therefore we don't have any serials in stock - unfortunately we don't currently have a 'coming soon' button to use instead (hence the release date note on the product page) - it's certainly not a ploy!


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## ChristianM

Quantum Leap said:


> Hi guys. I imagine the sold out is because it’s not out yet. I mean it’s a digital download, right? I don’t have anything to do with pricing, but I’ll say this.
> 
> Spaces 2 was going to be a whole new product with just the new impulses. Once we started testing, we realized that an improved interface was warranted. The ability to shorten the impulses is a good feature. And the old interface was too big. At that point it became obvious that we should also include the old stuff because of the improved interface. I went all out on the new impulses. Every location was an 8-10 hour process with the best Hollywood film-score style recording rig you could imagine. The whole thing was done the way I did So. Cal. hall in spaces 1. It’s deep and plentiful. Instrument specific reverbs in surround. Lots of epic stuff. Spaces 2 is all good will. Even more of what made Spaces 1 popular.



Hi,

Are there new impulses with instrument location/position, like So Call?


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## wnws

Appears to be held off for a couple of days as posted on the EW forum.


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## jcrosby

Time+Space said:


> Hi Jcrosby, it says 'sold out' on the T+S site as it's not been released yet and therefore we don't have any serials in stock - unfortunately we don't currently have a 'coming soon' button to use instead (hence the release date note on the product page) - it's certainly not a ploy!



Fair enough... I have seen vendors use phrases like 'limited stock!' and 'stock low!' in giant bold red text for plugin sales... Marketing schemes like this make it difficult not to be skeptical, if not somewhat cynical... Thank you for clarifying.


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## Quantum Leap

Should be out tomorrow. Almost all the new stuff was done like SO CAL HALL, even the churches. If I told you that this is the best reverb ever made, I would be underselling it.


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## jcrosby

Quantum Leap said:


> Should be out tomorrow. Almost all the new stuff was done like SO CAL HALL, even the churches. If I told you that this is the best reverb ever made, I would be underselling it.


So is there an upgrade price for Spaces owners?


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## Michael Antrum

Well I liked Spaces so much I bought two copies. 

It just works beautifully, and I don’t have to mess about to get a great sound. Spaces II has some big shoes to fill.....


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## muziksculp

Looks like they bumped the release date to *July 25th*


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## CT

Quantum Leap said:


> Should be out tomorrow. Almost all the new stuff was done like SO CAL HALL, even the churches. If I told you that this is the best reverb ever made, I would be underselling it.



Is the "St. Patrick's" impulse actually from the cathedral in NYC?


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## NoamL

Some information/guesses about the new spaces below.

Having multiple impulse responses of each of these spaces is going to be super exciting.

"Angels Cathedral" - very likely the huge (and very modern looking) Cathedral Of Our Lady Of The Angels, LA

"Grace Church" - likely Grace Community megachurch, San Fernando (southern Cali)

"Sacred Heart" - there are multiple churches with that name in the LA area.

"St. Dominc" (sic) - could be St. Dominic's church in San Francisco although there are also churches by that name in Washington DC and the Bronx, New York

"St. Patricks" - (_likely St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York.) _I'm wrong, see below

"Davies Hall" - the home concert hall of the San Francisco Symphony. A welcome addition to "Northwest Orchestral Hall" which is almost certainly Benaroya Hall, the home of the Seattle Symphony (been there!).

"Abravanel Hall" - the home of the Utah Symphony.

"Reynolds Hall" - 2,000 seat theater with orchestra pit, Las Vegas

"Union Station" - the "Grand Central" of LA's rail lines.

"544 Mateo" - a warehouse in the heart of downtown LA. An interesting competitor to the "ACME Warehouse" impulses perhaps? Or to "Culver Stage 2" which I'm 90% sure is the Streisand/MGM Scoring Stage.

"War Memorial Opera House" - 3,000 seat opera house in San Francisco


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## NoamL

axb312 said:


> Comparing to other similar products, we have:
> 
> Fog Convolver - 65 USD
> Reverberate 2 - 125 USD
> MConvolutionMB - 59 USD
> Hofa IQ Verb - 175 USD
> 
> What justifies the significantly higher price of Spaces (1 for now) compared to these offerings?



No offense, but those products aren't competitors to Spaces. The only other sampled-IR reverb I ever hear people talk about in the same hushed tones as SPACES (that's not, you know, actual hardware) is Altiverb 7, and that's six hundred dollars. Although, it has about a trillion impulse responses from all over the world, a positioning engine, many more knobs to fiddle with, and is a mainstay of nearly anyone working in sound post.


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## Quantum Leap

Dominic’s and patrick’s Are in San Fran and are medium size churches. The real stars from the church category are Angels and Grace. They are ridiculous. Sacred Heart is very strong as well.


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## desert

Quantum Leap said:


> Dominic’s and patrick’s Are in San Fran and are medium size churches. The real stars from the church category are Angels and Grace. They are ridiculous. Sacred Heart is very strong as well.


I want them now!


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## axb312

NoamL said:


> No offense, but those products aren't competitors to Spaces. The only other sampled-IR reverb I ever hear people talk about in the same hushed tones as SPACES (that's not, you know, actual hardware) is Altiverb 7, and that's six hundred dollars. Although, it has about a trillion impulse responses from all over the world, a positioning engine, many more knobs to fiddle with, and is a mainstay of nearly anyone working in sound post.



I'm asking why....is it a difference in sound quality or....?


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## Quantum Leap

Some people lean towards algorithmic reverbs, because you can dial in exactly the length, tone and early reflections. Many film scores already have the soundstage reverb built in, so add a bit of lexicon hall with a long reverb time or bricasti and it sounds good. Kind of an epic wash. 

Impulse reverbs are interesting because they promise a more realistic, 3D space that Lexicon and Bricasti can’t quite touch. Only problem is that many of the impulses over the years kind of sucked. It gave impulsing a bad name. Early sampling was poor and so was much of the reverb impulsing. If you use good methods and a $200K recording rig, you can hear the difference. 

Lastly, the instrument specific reverb sampling in Spaces is a big deal. There are massive differences between the impulses within the same hall. Changing the location and radiation pattern of the source has a much bigger effect than just moving around the microphones or changing patterns on the mics.


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## ChristianM

mikeybabes said:


> Well I liked Spaces so much I bought two copies.



You know you can use the same plugin for left and right


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## Erick - BVA

jcrosby said:


> Fair enough... I have seen vendors use phrases like 'limited stock!' and 'stock low!' in giant bold red text for plugin sales... Marketing schemes like this make it difficult not to be skeptical, if not somewhat cynical... Thank you for clarifying.


Yeah, I hate it when companies do that with digital products --and they don't have to purchase a license from let's say, Native Instruments. If they can duplicate their software, it's not out of stock, they've just decided to artificially decrease production so the perceived value can be increased, like Diamands. Oh wait, did I just get political? 
On the to the topic at hand, I would love to get this. I have the original. Is it a free update? or is there an upgrade discount?


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## Shad0wLandsUK

And in true EW fashion, we have not met the deadline 

I knew it was too good to be true 

NOTE: I am not complaining as I know this will be a great product and want nothing more than a more stable product to be released. Just pointing out that I have grown accustomed to delayed releases from EW


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## Michael Antrum

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> NOTE: I am not complaining .....



Oh yes you are.....


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## Shad0wLandsUK

mikeybabes said:


> Oh yes you are.....


Shh mikey

Don't tell everyone as I might be targeted for a *Sample Library Developer haterz* Distribution email  And Lord knows, i already have plenty of emails a day...


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## JT

Quantum Leap said:


> Lastly, the instrument specific reverb sampling in Spaces is a big deal. There are massive differences between the impulses within the same hall. Changing the location and radiation pattern of the source has a much bigger effect than just moving around the microphones or changing patterns on the mics.


Are the instrument specific impulses based on these instruments being seated in standard orchestral seating, or are they based on a solo instrument that's in front of the orchestra?


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## Quantum Leap

Standard orchestral seating. That’s why each impulse sounds so different. But there are always standard soloist impulses as well.


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## danbo

Apologies if this has been discussed before, but something I haven't seen discussed is that the responses are made with empty halls. For example, I auditioned in Davies Symphony Hall once in San Francisco, and almost muffed it in the first 5 seconds because I thought somebody else was playing along. About 3 seconds into my audition I heard another person playing very loudly, and realized then it was simply myself being perfectly echoed back. *

I won the audition (or a later one actually) and spent many years performing in the hall as a clarinetist (solo instrument, so I heard playing solo or near solo frequently), but I never heard that effect again either in rehearsal or performance. In rehearsal there was more going on, but importantly there where some 50 odd people taking up the stage and breaking the sound field up. Certainly during performance (which the hall was theoretically designed for acoustically) there were up to a few thousand bodies absorbing and breaking the sound up (Davies is famous for being a hard hall to fill for an orchestra, even the Chicago brass get red in the face trying). 

Anyhow AFAIK these impulses are not made under real performance/rehearsal conditions but instead an empty hall, any thoughts on this welcome. I've only got EWHO libraries and am considering getting Spaces eventually (I like the simplicity of single vendor). 

* I have a memory of a magical time going out on the stage when it was shut down. The entire hall was dark, except they had a several hundred watt naked bulb on a stand in the conductors position. This is in the middle of San Francisco (well by City Hall at least) and it was dead quiet, not even the sound of any HVAC - it was magical.They made it a double walled enclosure so the inner hall is truly isolated from the world.


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## MarcelM

ok, since i got the boxed version of spaces just for 50 eur i wanna know if there is an update available to spaces 2 and how much is it?


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## dzilizzi

Have they changed the date? It still shows as today on the website, but no options to buy yet. I would like to see if there is an upgrade price as well.


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## ChristianM

yes 25, but 2019 :D


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## Seycara

EW doesn't have a good record when it comes to deadlines (cue HWC release). I wouldn't be surprised even if it released a few weeks behind official date. Hope the wait is worth.


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## al_net77

Ok, downloading now from CC...


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## fretti

149$ for the upgrade is kind of hefty...(at least for me)
And paying 25$ a month for CC is kind of pointless when only "needing" that one product


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## MarcelM

149$ for the upgrade from spaces. you can order it now.

i still want to see a walkthrough and hear some user opinions if its really worth the upgrade.

so they also dont sell spaces 1 anymore.


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## dzilizzi

Yes, me too. It is a little high at $149, but I would pay it if it is worth it.


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## Geoff Grace

I'm going to guess that the upgrade will be available at a discount from online retailers. Perhaps around $125-$130?

Best,

Geoff


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## Quantum Leap

danbo said:


> Apologies if this has been discussed before, but something I haven't seen discussed is that the responses are made with empty halls. For example, I auditioned in Davies Symphony Hall once in San Francisco, and almost muffed it in the first 5 seconds because I thought somebody else was playing along. About 3 seconds into my audition I heard another person playing very loudly, and realized then it was simply myself being perfectly echoed back. *
> 
> I won the audition (or a later one actually) and spent many years performing in the hall as a clarinetist (solo instrument, so I heard playing solo or near solo frequently), but I never heard that effect again either in rehearsal or performance. In rehearsal there was more going on, but importantly there where some 50 odd people taking up the stage and breaking the sound field up. Certainly during performance (which the hall was theoretically designed for acoustically) there were up to a few thousand bodies absorbing and breaking the sound up (Davies is famous for being a hard hall to fill for an orchestra, even the Chicago brass get red in the face trying).
> 
> Anyhow AFAIK these impulses are not made under real performance/rehearsal conditions but instead an empty hall, any thoughts on this welcome. I've only got EWHO libraries and am considering getting Spaces eventually (I like the simplicity of single vendor).
> 
> * I have a memory of a magical time going out on the stage when it was shut down. The entire hall was dark, except they had a several hundred watt naked bulb on a stand in the conductors position. This is in the middle of San Francisco (well by City Hall at least) and it was dead quiet, not even the sound of any HVAC - it was magical.They made it a double walled enclosure so the inner hall is truly isolated from the world.



Davies has controllable sound through panels. We recorded with the panels somewhat active to get the ideal big orchestral sound. No weird echoes.


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## Chris Hurst

Just looked at the CPU meter in Studio One v4 and it appears a bit lighter on CPU than the original Spaces when loading the same presets, which is good news! More testing to be done...


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## Jaap

Chris Hurst said:


> Just looked at the CPU meter in Studio One v4 and it appears a bit lighter on CPU than the original Spaces when loading the same presets, which is good news! More testing to be done...



Yup, also noticing the same. Loaded it up in a very heavy project where spaces was actually a bit on the edge of being problematic and now it is much more in the safe zone.
And replaced in that same project the verb with one from the Abravanel Hall and damn, sounds good! Rich and very clear. I also like that you can apply some sort of filtering (though limited as it are just high pass and low pass as far I as see), but looking so far as a really solid new update and looking forward to go to all the new things. Quite a lot of content and seems also much more variety and even for more experimental stuff.


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## dzilizzi

Geoff Grace said:


> I'm going to guess that the upgrade will be available at a discount from online retailers. Perhaps around $125-$130?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


Haven't found one yet that is carrying the upgrade version. I could probably wait for a sale, but who knows if the upgrade will be available then either. I will wait and check around tomorrow.


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## NoamL

Here's a quick demo of the Sacred Heart Church.

You'll hear dry (bypassed), then Solo, Strings/Winds, Brass, Percussion, Choir. And travel back to the front again at the end.



My first thoughts are: it's everything that was great about So Cal Hall, but now in a church!

Still getting to grips with the software so if there are any bugs or errors here, it's on me. My method was to send the piano 100% to both the FR and RR impulses. And I eyeballed lowering the dry signal before doing so for the further mic positions to simulate distance.


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## SomeGuy

Maybe I'm dense, but I only hear piano in your audio example. Sounds good though! 



NoamL said:


> Here's a quick demo of the Sacred Heart Church.
> 
> You'll hear dry (bypassed), then Solo, Strings/Winds, Brass, Percussion, Choir. And travel back to the front again at the end.
> 
> 
> 
> My first thoughts are: it's everything that was great about So Cal Hall, but now in a church!
> 
> Still getting to grips with the software so if there are any bugs or errors here, it's on me. My method was to send the piano 100% to both the FR and RR impulses. And I eyeballed lowering the dry signal before doing so for the further mic positions to simulate distance.


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## axb312

Damn this is expensive...


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## axb312

SomeGuy said:


> Maybe I'm dense, but I only hear piano in your audio example. Sounds good though!



I believe he meant the instrument specific IRs for those instruments.


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## Geoff Grace

dzilizzi said:


> Haven't found one yet that is carrying the upgrade version. I could probably wait for a sale, but who knows if the upgrade will be available then either. I will wait and check around tomorrow.


Yeah, it's early yet. It's possible the upgrade rollout will distributed more slowly to retailers, or it's possible it won't be at all. Time will tell. 

Personally, I don't have to be the first kid on the block to get Spaces II. I'm content to wait and see.

Best,

Geoff


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## dzilizzi

Geoff Grace said:


> Yeah, it's early yet. It's possible the upgrade rollout will distributed more slowly to retailers, or it's possible it won't be at all. Time will tell.
> 
> Personally, I don't have to be the first kid on the block to get Spaces II. I'm content to wait and see.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Geoff


Eric from JRR Shop said the most recent he heard was they won't get to sell EW upgrades anymore. They usually give a discount on top of the sales price. 

That said, I can really wait for a sale. Do they normally give 50% off on upgrades? If not, the $149 is only a little more than I spent on the original Spaces and it was 50% off plus an extra bit from the retailer. That is mainly why I'm thinking of getting it.


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## Geoff Grace

Thanks for sharing what you heard from JRR Shop, @dzilizzi. That's disappointing, as they often have the lowest prices.

As for EastWest upgrade price history, I don't know. I have my share of their products—in fact, I've been buying from them since the Akai/E-mu days (shout out to *Rhys*)—but I don't recall ever buying an upgrade from them before.

Best,

Geoff


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## Robo Rivard

Just wait for a sale at -60%.


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## Geoff Grace

I just realized that the $149 upgrade price is two days only:



Soundsonline said:


> 2 DAYS ONLY! Upgrade from Spaces I for only $149 and SAVE $50 off of the regular upgrade price of $199!



Yes, there may be an better sale down the road; but if you want to upgrade soon, this is the time to do it.

Best,

Geoff


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## Akarin

Currently playing with it and I'm disappointed by one thing: in Spaces 1, when setting a filter, you could see the filter cut-off value in Hz. Not in Spaces 2. Only a slider on a grid and have to do some guesswork. Aside from that, I love it.

EDIT: Same with the pre-delay value. It doesn't seem to show the value in ms. Just a knob with light guides. I may be mistaken but if this is the case, it's a big oversight in the UI. I like my violins to be exactly at 58ms.


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## N.Caffrey

guys a walkthrough please!


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## oxo

in the past i bought spaces v1 for $149 (at a sale). now the upgrade will cost $149. too expensive for me compared to the few new features and IRs.


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## Nyran

Akarin said:


> Currently playing with it and I'm disappointed by one thing: in Spaces 1, when setting a filter, you could see the filter cut-off value in Hz. Not in Spaces 2. Only a slider on a grid and have to do some guesswork. Aside from that, I love it.
> 
> EDIT: Same with the pre-delay value. It doesn't seem to show the value in ms. Just a knob with light guides. I may be mistaken but if this is the case, it's a big oversight in the UI. I like my violins to be exactly at 58ms.



This is actually a really big oversight. I was considering upgrading tomorrow after seeing some of the first impressions. I assume this can be fixed in an update but I wonder how a company of composers and engineers let this fly by (esp. the pre delay ms which in 2018 should have the option to sync with tempo values too). Also the upgrade price is disappointing. Not to mention that I hoped for a normal EQ filter with 3-4 bands. Don't get me wrong, Spaces 1 is one of my most used reverbs and I love it.


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## Francis Bourre

Any feedback about the new impulses guys?


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## desert

oxo said:


> in the past i bought spaces v1 for $149 (at a sale). now the upgrade will cost $149. too expensive for me compared to the few new features and IRs.


Okay, I agree that the upgrade is expensive but you can’t really compare a sale price of spaces 1 with spaces 2

When it first came out it was around $300...

If people hadn’t owned SP1 before then the price is good.


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## Nyran

desert said:


> Okay, I agree that the upgrade is expensive but you can’t really compare a sale price of spaces 1 with spaces 2
> 
> When it first came out it was around $300...
> 
> If people hadn’t owned SP1 before then the price is good.



Completely agree with your statement. So let's say you have Spaces 1 and you have bought it normally at 300$. Now you have to pay 150$ (for 2 days) more to get Spaces 2 which is NOT a completely new product and you are just getting a few more features. So in total you have spent 450$ for Spaces 2 which is 50$ more than buying the new product without owning Spaces 1 (100$ after the 2 days discount). I thought that as a company you should "reward" your existing customers while in this case EWQL basically is punishing their customers. Not to mention that I am "losing" the ability to have ms on pre-delay and Hz on filters...This is baffling to me.


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## desert

Nyran said:


> Completely agree with your statement. So let's say you have Spaces 1 and you have bought it normally at 300$. Now you have to pay 150$ (for 2 days) more to get Spaces 2 which is NOT a completely new product and you are just getting a few more features. So in total you have spent 450$ for Spaces 2 which is 50$ more than buying the new product without owning Spaces 1 (100$ after the 2 days discount). I thought that as a company you should "reward" your existing customers while in this case EWQL basically is punishing their customers. This is baffling to me.


Yep, I agree lol. I was definitely under the impression the upgrade would be cheaper :/


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## oxo

desert said:


> Okay, I agree that the upgrade is expensive but you can’t really compare a sale price of spaces 1 with spaces 2



i did not do that either. i wrote: "too expensive for me compared to the few new features and IRs." ...so i set the upgrade price in relation to the new features, so what you get more than with spaces 1.  ...but i do not speak english. it can therefore sometimes be misleading what i write by google-translator.


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## MarcelM

is is expensive for like 310 new IRs. it cant be THAT good that iam gonna spend 149$ for the upgrade.

price will be lowered sooner or later, and iam gonna wait.


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## Breaker

If there would be a demo, a two week upgrade sale window for around 100$ and assurances that the bugs / missing features will be sorted quickly, I would definitely be interested but now it is just too many if’s :/


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## Pablocrespo

Quantum Leap said:


> Davies has controllable sound through panels. We recorded with the panels somewhat active to get the ideal big orchestral sound. No weird echoes.



Hi Nick I don’t know if it is you who decides this, but don’t you think it is a bit unfair to old customers to limit the $150 offer to two days only?

I still don’t know if it will be an improvement to my current setup. I have been using So Cal for the last years and havent touch it, besides more impulses that could still loose against the beautiful So Cal, what could I gain spending $200?

This is not a critique, you set the bar too high the last time, so please tell Doug to think about the old and loyal customers


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## will_m

Just got an email for a (literal) ticking clock style upgrade sale, which makes the upgrade $149 for 2 whole days then $200 after that. There's no walk-through video though so it's hard to fully evaluate why $149 would ever be worth it. 

Price does seem way too high though, I can get new versions of my entire DAW for under $50 and new versions of my effects are often free.


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## Francis Bourre

And you have to subscribe one month to the cloud to demo the new impulses and take your decision in 2 days... Ahem!


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## ChristianM

Update too expensive for me
I continue with the seventh heaven


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## JT

Akarin said:


> ...Same with the pre-delay value. It doesn't seem to show the value in ms. Just a knob with light guides. I may be mistaken but if this is the case, it's a big oversight in the UI. I like my violins to be exactly at 58ms.


I agree completely with this. I don't know why they took out the digital readout when adjusting the knobs. I hope they can put these back in, in an update.


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## emasters

Spent last night trying out the new impulses after purchasing the upgrade. The True Stereo concert hall impulses are really fantastic with orchestral instruments -- makes one appreciate how "vanilla" basic reverb sounds in sampling instruments. I don't own Altiverb or a Bricasti, so I'm not a reverb expert. But I like what East West has done with the Spaces II upgrade and look forward to using it.


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## Jaap

It is mentioned in this post that they will add value to the tooltips in the next update
http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?p=786442#post786442


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## Akarin

Jaap said:


> It is mentioned in this post that they will add value to the tooltips in the next update
> http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?p=786442#post786442



Great. My OCD requires precise values!


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## Jaap

Akarin said:


> Great. My OCD requires precise values!


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## ratherbirds

What makes the difference between "EW Spaces II" $ 299 and "Waves IR1L" (true stereo) $ 39?


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## MarcelM

ratherbirds said:


> What makes the difference between "EW Spaces II" $ 299 and "Waves IR1L" (true stereo) $ 39?



the IRs make the difference between convolution reverbs. if IRs arent good recorded it wont sound good


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## milesito

emasters said:


> Spent last night trying out the new impulses after purchasing the upgrade. The True Stereo concert hall impulses are really fantastic with orchestral instruments -- makes one appreciate how "vanilla" basic reverb sounds in sampling instruments. I don't own Altiverb or a Bricasti, so I'm not a reverb expert. But I like what East West has done with the Spaces II upgrade and look forward to using it.



Are you comparing this to spaces I? How does it compare to So Cal Hall?


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## emasters

milesito said:


> Are you comparing this to spaces I? How does it compare to So Cal Hall?



Of the 4 new concert halls (Abravanel Hall, Ace Hall, Davies Hall and Reynolds Hall), to my ears Reynolds Hall sounds great and is on par with So Call Hall. My prior comments regarded the overall product, but my time thus far has been with the new impulses. If you're wondering are the new impulses on par with the best of v1 (E.g., So Cal Hall), my limited time with v2 so far, is yes (again, not an expert with different reverbs here). I read somewhere East West understood how popular the So Cal Hall has been, and were aiming to have v2 offer more options at that level.


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## milesito

Do new spaces 2 halls offer reverbs for different sections of the orchestra like so cal hall?


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## OleJoergensen

milesito said:


> Do new spaces 2 halls offer reverbs for different sections of the orchestra like so cal hall?


If I have understood correctly, it does for 5 or 6 new Halls.


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## bvaughn0402

In the new Spaces 2 ... what are considered to be the "go to" presets? I keep seeing So Cal Hall mentioned. Is the default setting (Reynolds?) now considered more their "start with this" type preset?


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## emasters

milesito said:


> Do new spaces 2 halls offer reverbs for different sections of the orchestra like so cal hall?


 Yes -- some do. The latter part of the Spaces II manual details the prior and new impulses, including section impulses provided. Here's a link to the on-line version: http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/docs/EW-Spaces-II-User-Manual.pdf


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## Quantum Leap

In spaces 1 So Cal Hall (we didn’t have permission to use the real name sorry) is a strong all around large Hall sound. Panels in the Hall were controllable and we dialed in the sound. It is the only venue where we used our instrument specific impulsing process. 

In my old so cal template I use the true stereo strings front mics impulse for bus 1. True stereo brass front mics impulse for bus 2. Stereo winds front mics impulse for bus 3. True stereo percussion impulse for bus 4. True stereo choir impulse to bus 5. Hamburg Cathedral A 4.0 for bus 6. And Acme 2.0 for bus 7. 

Various sounds use the busses that you expect, but I tend to send the sounds to bus 6 as well, to get a bit of massive Hollywood sheen. I use bus 7 to beef up percussion sounds. 

If you use the surround impulses instead of the front mics, you could probably skip Hamburg Cathedral. 

In Spaces 2, Reynolds is probably the most similar to So Cal. Similar size Hall and similar process.
But still has a unique sound. Right now, I’m liking Reynolds better than So Cal. It’s amazing that this Hall exists in Las Vegas. They spent a ton of money on it, but there is almost no classical music scene there. A hidden gem. 

Davies Hall is great if you want a slightly more epic and slightly darker sound. Reverb time is a bit longer. You can really hear differences in the impulses in this Hall. Use the surround impulses for a really epic sound. Davies is one of the best halls in existence, but is a bit too epic for some music, even when they employ the sound panels in the Hall. Is fantastic as impulses because you can control the sound. 

Abravanel has a very natural, slightly smaller and noticeably darker sound than the other halls. 
If you want your strings to sound really natural and not notice the reverb, use this Hall. You can mix and match with other halls by the way. That’s what film scores are all about.

Angels Cathedral has my favorite long reverb time sound I’ve ever heard. It’s 8 seconds, but the sound is so natural that you barely notice that. Try all impulses, we did instrument specific in the churches too. 

Grace Church is a beautiful all around sound and a good alternative to Hamburg Catherdral.


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## axb312

Quantum Leap said:


> In spaces 1 So Cal Hall (we didn’t have permission to use the real name sorry) is a strong all around large Hall sound. Panels in the Hall were controllable and we dialed in the sound. It is the only venue where we used our instrument specific impulsing process.
> 
> In my old so cal template I use the true stereo strings front mics impulse for bus 1. True stereo brass front mics impulse for bus 2. Stereo winds front mics impulse for bus 3. True stereo percussion impulse for bus 4. True stereo choir impulse to bus 5. Hamburg Cathedral A 4.0 for bus 6. And Acme 2.0 for bus 7.
> 
> Various sounds use the busses that you expect, but I tend to send the sounds to bus 6 as well, to get a bit of massive Hollywood sheen. I use bus 7 to beef up percussion sounds.
> 
> If you use the surround impulses instead of the front mics, you could probably skip Hamburg Cathedral.
> 
> In Spaces 2, Reynolds is probably the most similar to So Cal. Similar size Hall and similar process.
> But still has a unique sound. Right now, I’m liking Reynolds better than So Cal. It’s amazing that this Hall exists in Las Vegas. They spent a ton of money on it, but there is almost no classical music scene there. A hidden gem.
> 
> Davies Hall is great if you want a slightly more epic and slightly darker sound. Reverb time is a bit longer. You can really hear differences in the impulses in this Hall. Use the surround impulses for a really epic sound. Davies is one of the best halls in existence, but is a bit too epic for some music, even when they employ the sound panels in the Hall. Is fantastic as impulses because you can control the sound.
> 
> Abravanel has a very natural, slightly smaller and noticeably darker sound than the other halls.
> If you want your strings to sound really natural and not notice the reverb, use this Hall. You can mix and match with other halls by the way. That’s what film scores are all about.
> 
> Angels Cathedral has my favorite long reverb time sound I’ve ever heard. It’s 8 seconds, but the sound is so natural that you barely notice that. Try all impulses, we did instrument specific in the churches too.
> 
> Grace Church is a beautiful all around sound and a good alternative to Hamburg Catherdral.



Any updates on when the pricing is going to be revised?

I read elsewhere re: how much was spent on this project but you've had Spaces 1 out for a while now (so I assume the costs of this have been more than recovered) - and the new price is quite shocking for those of us who were expecting Spaces 1 kind of pricing (quality but affordable?)...


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## AllanH

I upgraded and gave it a little play this morning. I have say that the new spaces are exquisite. The default for me was the Reynolds hall and it was deep, resonant and clear. I tried a variety of impulses and they all sounded really good and somehow better than I expected. Maybe an improved algorithm is providing more clarity (not sure, but to my ears it's "better" than Space I).

Compared to Spaces I, the personality of the spaces is more clearly audible. Nick's comment two posts above summarizes some of this.

A couple of small notes:
I had to turn off multi-threading. I'm on Win10 with Cubase 9.5 Pro.

I had not previously found the "as send effects" setting (nice!). I miss the tool-tips (!nice).

The "Input" is different for some presets. This may be intentional but I find it jarring when the input is +3db or more (e.g. Angles stings winds).


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## SomeGuy

Did you guys get an upgrade offer via email? I'm a long time spaces user and have yet to receive an email (though I do get their sales emails all the time)


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## John57

Yes I got mine with a clock of 46 minutes remaining and I said what? Then they change the discount for another week. Poor business planning


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## AllanH

I think EW had problems with their shopping cart. I had to try numerous times before it let me check out. The web site now says one week, so that lowers the "pressure" a bit.


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## lokotus

Quantum Leap said:


> Some people lean towards algorithmic reverbs, because you can dial in exactly the length, tone and early reflections. Many film scores already have the soundstage reverb built in, so add a bit of lexicon hall with a long reverb time or bricasti and it sounds good. Kind of an epic wash.



Yea, and its great that we now also have control over the decay time in Spaces 2. Is there any reason why a "fade in" option was not added to the impulses. That would at least give us also a bit more control/freedom towards shaping the Early reflections, which is important when you deal with VI sample libraries, that were themselves recording in different anechoic chambers / studios / concert halls etc...

Cheers, lokotus


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## robgb

When I had Creative Cloud, I didn't spend much time using Spaces, so I'm wondering how it's superior to simply using my DAW's convolution reverb and the free Bricasti impulses? I know almost nothing about Spaces and am wondering if this is something I need to invest in.


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## lokotus

robgb said:


> When I had Creative Cloud, I didn't spend much time using Spaces, so I'm wondering how it's superior to simply using my DAW's convolution reverb and the free Bricasti impulses? I know almost nothing about Spaces and am wondering if this is something I need to invest in.



Invest 1 day comparing only reverbs for yourself. You will hear a difference and learn much more instead of waiting for smart "subjective" replies. Thats What I did for the last three days and I have learned more than ever about reverbs and instead of reading x is better than y plugins, because the sources, style of music you do and need the reverb for differs for every composer (drum kit, clarinet, strings, EDM ??)


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## MPortmann

Quantum Leap said:


> In spaces 1 So Cal Hall (we didn’t have permission to use the real name sorry) is a strong all around large Hall sound. Panels in the Hall were controllable and we dialed in the sound. It is the only venue where we used our instrument specific impulsing process.
> 
> In my old so cal template I use the true stereo strings front mics impulse for bus 1. True stereo brass front mics impulse for bus 2. Stereo winds front mics impulse for bus 3. True stereo percussion impulse for bus 4. True stereo choir impulse to bus 5. Hamburg Cathedral A 4.0 for bus 6. And Acme 2.0 for bus 7.
> 
> Various sounds use the busses that you expect, but I tend to send the sounds to bus 6 as well, to get a bit of massive Hollywood sheen. I use bus 7 to beef up percussion sounds.
> 
> If you use the surround impulses instead of the front mics, you could probably skip Hamburg Cathedral.
> 
> In Spaces 2, Reynolds is probably the most similar to So Cal. Similar size Hall and similar process.
> But still has a unique sound. Right now, I’m liking Reynolds better than So Cal. It’s amazing that this Hall exists in Las Vegas. They spent a ton of money on it, but there is almost no classical music scene there. A hidden gem.
> 
> Davies Hall is great if you want a slightly more epic and slightly darker sound. Reverb time is a bit longer. You can really hear differences in the impulses in this Hall. Use the surround impulses for a really epic sound. Davies is one of the best halls in existence, but is a bit too epic for some music, even when they employ the sound panels in the Hall. Is fantastic as impulses because you can control the sound.
> 
> Abravanel has a very natural, slightly smaller and noticeably darker sound than the other halls.
> If you want your strings to sound really natural and not notice the reverb, use this Hall. You can mix and match with other halls by the way. That’s what film scores are all about.
> 
> Angels Cathedral has my favorite long reverb time sound I’ve ever heard. It’s 8 seconds, but the sound is so natural that you barely notice that. Try all impulses, we did instrument specific in the churches too.
> 
> Grace Church is a beautiful all around sound and a good alternative to Hamburg Catherdral.



Extremely helpful. Thank you


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## AndyP

Bought it today, a good choice. Easy handling, good clear sound.


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## ChristianM

I wait attractive price for update…


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## Rowy

OleJoergensen said:


> I just saw on FB that Spaces 2 will be released the 23. Juli.
> The GUI looks very good...
> http://www.soundsonline.com/spaces-II



I'm curious. I'm just an amateur producer, but how long will a professional music producer keep looking for yet another reverb plugin? After a couple of years you must have found your favorite one. An update, that I understand, but if you get an excellent result with your favorite reverb, why bother trying a new one? Is it just the fun of another tool?


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## dzilizzi

Technology improves constantly. Plus, in Spaces case, there are more locations available to use. For things like Blackhole, they can be used for sound design.


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## JamieLang

Rowy said:


> I'm curious. I'm just an amateur producer, but how long will a professional music producer keep looking for yet another reverb plugin? After a couple of years you must have found your favorite one. An update, that I understand, but if you get an excellent result with your favorite reverb, why bother trying a new one? Is it just the fun of another tool?



so, I will just speak for me....obviously....but, there's a little of both--you DO want to keep trying new things, in terms of demo'ing....but, I would maintain that my HARDWARE reverbs I was trying to replace had not been bettered in software until recently. That's not as consistently held opinion--as it's a lot in the WAY you use reverb(or any tool)....so, while I had some reverbs I was getting by with--I still tried everything that got any buzz and THEN some--because my goal was to be all software ASAP. 

Once you have your toolset....well, in the hardware world, you were set. In software, honestly? Your tools might not run 6 years from now and there's NO assurance that reverbs will be better in 6 years. This industry keeps rebooting to include more people--the growth market isn't "professional music producers"--hasn't been a for a long time.


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