# Please recommend a set of headphones $150 or less



## Reid Rosefelt (Nov 15, 2021)

My ears are not so good anymore (particularly the left one) so I don't need the audiophile headphones that most of you use. 

I'm looking for something that's comfortable, well-built and as good as is possible to buy within my budget.

I'm asking now, as there may be some deals about for BF and Cyber Monday.

Thanks!


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## Selfinflicted (Nov 15, 2021)

Audio-Technica ATH m50x is a good bet. I have a lot of headphones and like these most in your price range. They're quite good.


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## gary (Nov 15, 2021)

Audio-Technica ATH-M50X.​


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## easyrider (Nov 15, 2021)

Audio-Technica ATH-M50X.​


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## Seymour Caiman (Nov 15, 2021)

& AKG 702 are good if you like an open back design.


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## Quasar (Nov 15, 2021)

Dissenting opinion: I am a recent refugee from the ATH M50x, which clamp horribly. If you can still find ATH M40fs, they are MUCH, MUCH more comfortable, cheaper, and almost as good.

For comfort, if you don't mind open back (which tend to be more comfortable anyway) a Sennheiser HD599 can be had for about $150. I have had both the 598 and the 599, a step down from the HD6XX sonically, but they sound quite good and are supremely comfortable.









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## Double Helix (Nov 15, 2021)

Sennheiser HD 280 Pro Closed-Back Studio and Live Monitoring Headphones


Closed-Back Circumaural Headphones with Folding Design and 32dB of Acoustic Isolation




www.sweetwater.com


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## sumVI (Nov 15, 2021)

If you have a headphone amplifier, keep on eye on Massdrop's Sennheiser HD6xx, maybe you can get them within your budget if the price drops a little during BF.









Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX | Top Rated Open-Back Headphones | Drop


Our all-time best selling open-back audiophile headphones, the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX is a replacement to the original HD 650 with a refreshed aesthetic & improved utility.




drop.com





Alternatively, Sennheiser HD599's are on sale right now on Amazon for $150.


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## Peter Williams (Nov 15, 2021)

I use Beyer 990 pro..very comfortable, affordable and a wide frequency range. They tend to not have a pronounced bass response, so you may prefer the other recommended phones in this thread, as they are also very good. Be sure to get the right impedance for your system.


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## b_elliott (Nov 15, 2021)

I also have somewhat deteriorated hearing. The Sennheiser HD559s can be worn for many hours at a time without clamping/pressure. Pleasant to listen to. I also have pricey Grado's but prefer the Senns due to their comfort.


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## dunamisstudio (Nov 15, 2021)

Beyerdynamic DT 770 if you want to block out the noise
Beyerdynamic DT 990 if you want to hear someone talking to you while listening
Audio-Technica ATH m50x are good too.


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## Instrugramm (Nov 15, 2021)

Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee Headphones | Open-Back Audiophile Headphones | Drop


Headphones with history. The HD 58X uses Sennheiser’s new 150-ohm drivers, has a glossy black headband and gray metal grilles. These open-back headphones continue to please many ears at an unbeatable price.




drop.com





If you do the felt mod (can be done in 2-3 minutes) they're the superior HD660S' (tiny bit less resolution but better sub bass response and better overall presentation).


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## Rossy (Nov 15, 2021)

You should look at the Status Audio CB-1 Closed Back Studio Monitor Headphones, I am not saying these are of huge high quality but I have been using them for recording and mixing/mastering and they are a solid product. Fairly flat with a decent midrange and clean top end. Read the reviews, they are pretty good.


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## CeDur (Nov 15, 2021)

I'm not a fan of ATH M50X personally. Too boomy and harsh but each to their own.

I second recommendation for Beyerdynamic (actually any DT series). Also you can take a look at AKG K371 or K361 - I have, I like.


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## Pier (Nov 15, 2021)

Double Helix said:


> Sennheiser HD 280 Pro Closed-Back Studio and Live Monitoring Headphones
> 
> 
> Closed-Back Circumaural Headphones with Folding Design and 32dB of Acoustic Isolation
> ...


Yeah the HD280 are so much better than the ATH M50. For $100 these are an absolute steal.

@Reid Rosefelt are you looking for open or closed headphones?



CeDur said:


> I'm not a fan of ATH M50X personally. Too boomy and harsh but each to their own.


Absolutely. Also extremely overpriced for what you get.


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## Scalms (Nov 15, 2021)

Sony MDR-7506. Super comfortable, incredibly long-lasting. 

Some feel they are too bright. But I don't think so, they have a great clarity about them.

Highly recommend.


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## PaulieDC (Nov 15, 2021)

CeDur said:


> I'm not a fan of ATH M50X personally. Too boomy and harsh but each to their own.
> 
> I second recommendation for Beyerdynamic (actually any DT series). Also you can take a look at AKG K371 or K361 - I have, I like.


Yeah, good for tracking since their closed and they give a vocalist a bit richer voice, but mixing on them was a chore. Used them for years, then went open-back and never LOOKED back, lol. I will say that the $49 SonarWorks does clean the the M50X's up pretty well if you want flat. Not saying buy both but if someone has them already, maybe look into that, especially if there's a BF price.


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## PaulieDC (Nov 15, 2021)

Here you go!



Crikey, I might buy a pair...


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## Trash Panda (Nov 15, 2021)

dunamisstudio said:


> Beyerdynamic DT 770 if you want to block out the noise
> Beyerdynamic DT 990 if you want to hear someone talking to you while listening


For comfort, I feel these can’t be beat. Not only do I forget they’re on my head because they’re so comfy, I often have to double check that my speakers are muted because it doesn’t sound like I’m wearing headphones either (990s).


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## ryans (Nov 15, 2021)

I tend to enjoy most headphones but personally I find the M50X unusable. Harsh, grainy highs and really weird, bloated, boomy lows. Maybe they're good for certain genres? I can't understand how they are so popular.

The M40x are far better in my opinion.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> For comfort, I feel these can’t be beat. Not only do I forget they’re on my head because they’re so comfy, I often have to double check that my speakers are muted because it doesn’t sound like I’m wearing headphones either (990s).


Those plushy pads are so nice. Wearing them is like having really soft pillows attached to both sides of your head. However, the clamp force might be a bit on a higher side, at least when they are brand new. They loosen up a bit with time.

If OP is focused on comfort Beyers are a good blind-choice, but whole Sennheiser HD5xx or HD6xx line is even better. Size and shape of head and ears matters and my above average sized head is very happy with them. AKG K371 I've recommended earlier is a bit tricky in that regard.

I also don't know how M50X got so popular. To be more specific than only saying 'I hate them': the 'boominess' people mention can be measured and it's a strong bump around 100Hz (measurements from many reviewers differ, but this bump is always there for M50X). It causes many problems including muddying the midrange. Then higher frequencies are also boosted in a way it feels like someone sticks needles into ears. A proper EQ can tame it a bit, but why bother? Even the durability is not something special: pads degrade quite quickly. If someone considers himself to be at least semi-basshead (I do), there are also better options.


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## DJiLAND (Nov 16, 2021)

The K371 almost perfectly follows the latest Harman targets.


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## José Herring (Nov 16, 2021)

gary said:


> Audio-Technica ATH-M50X.​


Simply the best.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Simply the best.


Tina Turner recommends


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## cedricm (Nov 16, 2021)

Selfinflicted said:


> Audio-Technica ATH m50x is a good bet. I have a lot of headphones and like these most in your price range. They're quite good.


I concur.

Since they are very popular they're also included in plugins such as Waves nx Ocean Way. 

Also, they're the only one I found so far that last me more than 1 year of daily use.


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## Drundfunk (Nov 16, 2021)

What is it with you guys and the Audio Technica ATH-M50X? I own these and if it wasn't for the Sonarworks calibration, which make them actually usable, I'd put them in the trash. I would never use them without it. They are so damn harsh in the highs. It's just extremely unpleasant to listen to pretty much anything.


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## José Herring (Nov 16, 2021)

cedricm said:


> I concur.
> 
> Since they are very popular they're also included in plugins such as Waves nx Ocean Way.
> 
> Also, they're the only one I found so far that last me more than 1 year of daily use.


I've been using the M50's for more than a decade now in some form or another. I've tried many and these are the ones that seem to work for me. Kind of sounds like the control rooms on the scoring stages for some reason. Never could understand why. They just kind of work for orchestra music more than the many others I've tried.


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## José Herring (Nov 16, 2021)

Drundfunk said:


> What is it with you guys and the Audio Technica ATH-M50X? I own these and if it wasn't for the Sonarworks calibration, which make them actually usable, I'd put them in the trash. I would never use them without it. They are so damn harsh in the highs. It's just extremely unpleasant to listen to pretty much anything.


Never experienced this. Certainly a lot less harsh than the Sony 7506. Not as smooth and the Sennheiser HD 800s but I always felt that those had unnatural high end filtering going on.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I've been using the M50's for more than a decade now in some form or another. I've tried many and these are the ones that seem to work for me. Kind of sounds like the control rooms on the scoring stages for some reason. Never could understand why. They just kind of work for orchestra music more than the many others I've tried.


If you are using them for more than a decade you know them inside out and for professional work this level of familiarity with equipment is more important than fancy frequency curves etc. and switching to other product might not be the best idea.

Still I stand by my opinion that if someone does not have such familiarity, there are better options around.


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## José Herring (Nov 16, 2021)

CeDur said:


> If you are using them for more than a decade you know them inside out and for professional work this level of familiarity with equipment is more important than fancy frequency curves etc. and switching to other product might not be the best idea.
> 
> Still I stand by my opinion that if someone does not have such familiarity, there are better options around.


I don't disagree. I'd love to try some new ones thus my interest in this thread. Just stating my user experience but certainly not any kind of scientific objective observation.


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## widescreen (Nov 16, 2021)

I tested most of the mentioned headphones about a year ago as I needed a new main headphone for my indoor studio and a cheaper one for outdoor use/field recording/listening to music. As a former Sennheiser fan I totally converted to Beyerdynamic. It was like coming from OK to WOW (always considered the price).

The DT-990 Pro are the most comfortable ones I've ever worn. But the DT-880 Pro made it for me because they are nearly as comfortable, but more neutral. If it was just for listening to music and not for mixing/mastering I would have taken the 990. If some time I can afford a 4th headphone I will test it against the newer Beyerdynamics (900 Pro X). But for now 3 must do it. 

What surprised me most was the line by Mackie! In the given price range you should try the MC-250. I stayed with the MC-150 (~ $89) for outdoor use as it was enough for my purpose, but if you spend a little more you should check out the MC-250 (~ $115). Great comfort and performance for hearing music and still neutral enough. Foldable, changeable cables and ear pads...

I also cannot understand the hype for Audio-Technica. Did not convince me. The Mackie MC-250 is cheaper and better than the M50. But as for everything about listening, it's highly subjective.


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2021)

CeDur said:


> Those plushy pads are so nice. Wearing them is like having really soft pillows attached to both sides of your head. However, the clamp force might be a bit on a higher side, at least when they are brand new. They loosen up a bit with time.
> 
> If OP is focused on comfort Beyers are a good blind-choice, but whole Sennheiser HD5xx or HD6xx line is even better. Size and shape of head and ears matters and my above average sized head is very happy with them. AKG K371 I've recommended earlier is a bit tricky in that regard.
> 
> I also don't know how M50X got so popular. To be more specific than only saying 'I hate them': the 'boominess' people mention can be measured and it's a strong bump around 100Hz (measurements from many reviewers differ, but this bump is always there for M50X). It causes many problems including muddying the midrange. Then higher frequencies are also boosted in a way it feels like someone sticks needles into ears. A proper EQ can tame it a bit, but why bother? Even the durability is not something special: pads degrade quite quickly. If someone considers himself to be at least semi-basshead (I do), there are also better options.


Yeah the HD600 are the most comfortable headphones I've ever used.


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## proggermusic (Nov 16, 2021)

Scalms said:


> Sony MDR-7506. Super comfortable, incredibly long-lasting.
> 
> Some feel they are too bright. But I don't think so, they have a great clarity about them.
> 
> Highly recommend.


I agree with this... I've had Sonys for over a decade and I use them all the time. My dad (in his 70s, and also a musician as well as an electrical engineer) loved mine so much that he bought his own pair! 

There are, certainly, fancier headphones that cost more. But the Sonys are in every studio and the world and they've been around forever. They're a reliable standard for checking mixes or listening for fun, and they last forever.

The ear cuffs do NOT, however, last forever... mine deteriorated and I replaced them with a pair I got on Amazon for cheap that are much better.

In the future, I may get a pair of Beyerdynamic cans, simply because they're very comfy and I'm a big fan of the company.


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2021)

proggermusic said:


> I agree with this... I've had Sonys for over a decade and I use them all the time. My dad (in his 70s, and also a musician as well as an electrical engineer) loved mine so much that he bought his own pair!
> 
> There are, certainly, fancier headphones that cost more. But the Sonys are in every studio and the world and they've been around forever. They're a reliable standard for checking mixes or listening for fun, and they last forever.
> 
> ...


Andrew Scheps uses the MDR7506 to mix. He has been using those for a long time and buys a new pair every couple of years.

I've never tried them personally, although of course I'm curious!


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## Reid Rosefelt (Nov 16, 2021)

Thank you all so much for taking the time to give me this great advice. 

I will study this carefully and make my choice. I will see what the prices are like BF week and maybe Cyber Monday. 

Thanks again! 

Reid


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## Mornats (Nov 16, 2021)

I have the M50x and the DT880 pro and the 880s are so much more comfortable. Those pads are just so nice and soft on the head.


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## river angler (Nov 16, 2021)

Beyer DT150. Closed design workhorse headphone!

I never mix on any headphones but having some for tracking/moitoring duties that can handle everything from sharp transients with as near as dam it to a live studio big monitor sonic I have always used the beyer DT150. The moment I discovered them I bought 9 pairs for the studio at the time and have used them exclusively ever since for the last 25 years having tried all the other usual suspects like Beyer's own 700 and 900 series and the DT250: all of those simply don't have the umph, clarity nor longevity compared to the DT150. If I remember rightly the DT150 f.response is between 5hz- 30khz but it is actually the closed thick cased shell design that compliments the technical spec to a tee!

Yes! they are similar in physical design to the ubiquitous old DT100 but far superior sonically. (and actually more comfortable then the DT100!)

These have had constant use and I have only ever had to replace one set of drivers!

I haven't ever tried the Sony MDR706 nor the Audio Technica ATH-M50X as I have found the DT150 really do get me that big inspiring, effortless sound that only a pair of midfield/main monitors can better! Sennheisers tend to be more designed for audiophile being mostly open back designs- I have a pair of their HD600 but got fed up replacing the poorly designed cables to then find that it was their tiny custom connecting pin mechanism that was always yielding a loose connection! ... if anyone has ever come up with a remedy for this I'd love to know!

...If you are after a headphone that is pretty flat yet with a very revealing stereophonic depth with honest clear frequency response the Beyer DT150 can't be beat.


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## kilgurt (Nov 16, 2021)

Pier said:


> Andrew Scheps uses the MDR7506 to mix. He has been using those for a long time and buys a new pair every couple of years.
> 
> I've never tried them personally, although of course I'm curious!


Sony MDR-7506 - I use 'em too. Not as comfortable as my Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO, but very honest, especially in the low range (-> Andrew Scheps). Great for mixing!​​


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## SupremeFist (Nov 16, 2021)

Everyone's ears/heads are different so there are no right answers. For me in the OP's price range I'd recommend AKG K701/2 (open) or AKG K371 (closed).


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## davidanthony (Nov 16, 2021)

Another +1 for the MDR-7506. I've had two pairs since 2016 (looks like MSRP went up $20 since then, but this kind of pricing was possible back in the day for reference). 

I have large ears and wear glasses and find them comfortable enough to go hours with them on. Certain over-ears won't work for me when wearing glasses as they push the frames into my head a bit too much, something to be mindful of if you're a spectacle wearer.

They also have nice isolation which means you can listen at slightly lower volumes and save the hearing you have left! I wear a pair over my in-ears when drumming for additional noise reduction.


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## José Herring (Nov 16, 2021)

Bought a pair of MDR-7506 for my wife for casual listening but given the ringing endorsements I'm willing to give them another shot and may just keep a back up pair here for myself.


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## emid (Nov 16, 2021)

If it wasn't for new Beyer DT Pro X series, I would definitely buy Sony MDR 7506. My DT900 Pro X just arrived today and they are incredible. Another Sony recommendation in your price range!


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2021)

@davidanthony where is that deal?


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## bill5 (Nov 16, 2021)

Selfinflicted said:


> Audio-Technica ATH m50x is a good bet. I have a lot of headphones and like these most in your price range. They're quite good.


eh - overrated IMO. Nice overall, but boomy in the low end. Some people don't care (or like it), just FYI. And really the 30 and 40 series were similar to me. Agree on the 7506s.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

@Pier if you like how your new Fostex planars sound, I seriously doubt you will enjoy 7506. In terms of 'sound quality' they are not even close. In terms of studio-usage, they are great. Like some people already mentioned in this thread, they are strudy, boosted highs are great for tracking, solid construction allow them to not break for years and closed-back construction gives some isolation. They are great recording tool.


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2021)

CeDur said:


> @Pier if you like how your new Fostex planars sound, I seriously doubt you will enjoy 7506. In terms of 'sound quality' they are not even close. In terms of studio-usage, they are great. Like some people already mentioned in this thread, they are strudy, boosted highs are great for tracking, solid construction allow them to not break for years and closed-back construction gives some isolation. They are great recording tool.


I'm really loving the planar drivers for listening to music, after tweaking the EQ of course.

For production work I'm in love with my HD280. I'm surprised these are not more popular, specially considering the price.


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## sinkd (Nov 16, 2021)

Seymour Caiman said:


> & AKG 702 are good if you like an open back design.


I find these more comfy than the ATM40/50


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## davidanthony (Nov 16, 2021)

Pier said:


> @davidanthony where is that deal?


That was Guitar Center (but in 2016). 

As I mentioned in the post it looks like the MSRP has gone up $20 since I bought that pair (originally priced $80 before discount) so I would consider around $85 to be a "deal" on these today.


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## rMancer (Nov 16, 2021)

I'm still in the honeymoon phase, but I'm rather enjoying my Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro, using Sonarworks at about 50% to tame the peak of Mt. Beyer. They're $10 off at Sweetwater right now, which puts them inside your budget.

They might not be the most neutral, but they are _fun _to write with, which is rather important to me. I was using AKG K240 Studio with some aftermarket velour pads, which were alright but just didn't have any bass _at all_. 

The Pro does clamp a bit tighter, but is still comfy and has adjusted to my head over the last couple weeks. Plus, they do help block out some of the sound of my roommate's scratchy violin practice from down the hall


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## Quasar (Nov 16, 2021)

DJiLAND said:


> The K371 almost perfectly follows the latest Harman targets.


I keep hearing wonderful things about the K371 for honesty, and they're within Reid's budget. I'm set for open backs for now, but for closed I'm wondering if these might be a good, inexpensive and more neutral "upgrade" from the ATH M50X, the boomy bass and recessed mids of which I'm not a fan of either.

I'm still confused about the Harman curve thing, because my understanding is that this has been developed to emulate on cans (and a slightly different curve for in-ear) the balance that most music lovers tend to like on good speakers in a well-treated room. Cool, but what is the relationship between this result and the "neutrality" that is good for translation? Because at the end of the day, there is no such thing as "what something really sounds like", there are only what things sound like in various environments and conditions.

And it seems that Mr. Scheps is making the Sony MDR-7506 trendy again all by himself. I've never tried them, but this could be an inexpensive "upgrade" too. I dunno.


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2021)

Quasar said:


> I'm still confused about the Harman curve thing, because my understanding is that this has been developed to emulate on cans (and a slightly different curve for in-ear) the balance that most music lovers tend to like on good speakers in a well-treated room. Cool, but what is the relationship between this result and the "neutrality" that is good for translation? Because at the end of the day, there is no such thing as "what something really sounds like", there are only what things sound like in various environments and conditions.


From what I've read, the Harman curves are not about precision but rather what type of curve listeners tend to prefer. I've tried the Harman curves on my new Fostex T50RP and I think they are a hit and miss depending on the genre.

I would definitely not recommend to use headphones with that curve for mixing or general production work. Imagine having something mixed to sound like the Harman curves and then having the curves applied again by the end user 

As for translation, I'm not a great mix engineer by any means, but I think it mostly comes down to listening your mixes in as many different places as possible (car, laptop speakers, phone speakers, hifi system, home theater, etc). This will give you a good intuition of what works and what doesn't. Andrew Scheps talks about this but I don't remember in which video sorry.


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## Alchemedia (Nov 16, 2021)

Andrew Scheps mixes on Sony MDR-7506's.


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## Quasar (Nov 16, 2021)

Pier said:


> From what I've read, the Harman curves are not about precision but rather what type of curve listeners tend to prefer. I've tried the Harman curves on my new Fostex T50RP and I think they are a hit and miss depending on the genre.
> 
> I would definitely not recommend to use headphones with that curve for mixing or general production work. Imagine having something mixed to sound like the Harman curves and then having the curves applied again by the end user
> 
> As for translation, I'm not a great mix engineer by any means, but I think it mostly comes down to listening your mixes in as many different places as possible (car, laptop speakers, phone speakers, hifi system, home theater, etc). This will give you a good intuition of what works and what doesn't. Andrew Scheps talks about this but I don't remember in which video sorry.


Yeah I get that. I guess my point (and I think what Scheps implies) is that your frame of reference for a "neutrality" that can be used for creating a mix that translates successfully is ultimately arbitrary, the key factors being that you know your headphones well enough to know how they tend to translate into other current listening environments, and that for amateurs like me reference tracks and actual listening on other devices is key...

...But there is no true "neutrality", because any translation has to sound good, no one listens to music on an entirely flat frequency spectrum, which means compensating for both the various frequency sensitivities across environments as well as for the current cultural and tech conventions regarding how people expect music to sound in a given context... 

...In 1940, "neutral" would have been mono, and if you time traveled back there with your 21st century workstation, your stereo or surround tools would probably do you more harm than good, since they wouldn't translate to the 78 RPM mono records that people actually listened to. So it's always a relative frame of reference. It occurs to me that the actual monitors or headphones used, as long as they're of high enough quality to be able to convey the needed sonic information, might not matter at all. It's all about your relationship to them.

OT re Reid's headphone quest I know. Sorry.


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## CeDur (Nov 16, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> Andrew Scheps mixes on Sony MDR-7506's.


Probably because he's been using them for years, he knows them so well, and when he hears something he understands how it would translate. If he, let's say, bought some Beyerdynamics years ago, he would learn how to mix with them and now he would be using Beyers. The fact Andrew Scheps mixes on 7506s doesn't mean 7506s are great for mixing. It means Andrew Scheps bought them in one point and learnt how to mix with them, nothing more.



Quasar said:


> I keep hearing wonderful things about the K371 for honesty, and they're within Reid's budget. I'm set for open backs for now, but for closed I'm wondering if these might be a good, inexpensive and more neutral "upgrade" from the ATH M50X, the boomy bass and recessed mids of which I'm not a fan of either.


They were hyped in audio circles when they came out and that's one of the reasons they're so popular. I have them and I like them. Listening to music is just simply very pleasurable. I would say everything sounds good on them, but nothing sounds spectacular. I consider it to be a big advantage. They have a bit elevated bass, but <50Hz so it does not bleed into midrange (like it does with M50X).

The comfort is good, but not HD600 level good. There are reports stating some quality issues, but my pair is staying strong so far (I think I have them for around a year). No signs of wear.


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2021)

Quasar said:


> ..But there is no true "neutrality", because any translation has to sound good, no one listens to music on an entirely flat frequency spectrum, which means compensating for both the various frequency sensitivities across environments as well as for the current cultural and tech conventions regarding how people expect music to sound in a given context...



Absolutely.

Dan Worrall mentions in a video that good mixing is actually about helping brains decode the audio signal (eg: separating the different instruments) regardless of the alterations introduced by the gear, the room acoustics, etc.


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2021)

CeDur said:


> The fact Andrew Scheps mixes on 7506s doesn't mean 7506s are great for mixing. It means Andrew Scheps bought them in one point and learnt how to mix with them, nothing more.


Maybe not "great for mixing" but at least "sufficient for mixing given you learn the ins and outs". Probably like the NS10.


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## Alchemedia (Nov 16, 2021)

@CeDur 


> The fact Andrew Scheps mixes on 7506s doesn't mean 7506s are great for mixing. It means Andrew Scheps bought them in one point and learnt how to mix with them, nothing more.


I merely stated AS mixes on them. I wasn't implying anything beyond that. It's all subjective, including hearing itself, of course.


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## Quasar (Nov 16, 2021)

Pier said:


> Maybe not "great for mixing" but at least "sufficient for mixing given you learn the ins and outs". Probably like the NS10.


"Great for" vs. "sufficient for" is a useful distinction and a really constructive way to look at it IMHO. 

"Great" might include high-end studio headphones that 1) are easier to learn, 2) offer a shorter path with fewer compensatory tweaks required, 3) offer better sonic information in terms of detail, clarity, image, better consistency across the spectrum etc.

"Sufficient" only has to be sonically intelligible enough to be able to inform you as to what needs to be accounted for and corrected, once you learn its particular sonic signature, even if the compensations necessary are fairly dramatic. You wouldn't necessarily need expensive "studio" or "reference" quality to get that.

But like most people, given the choice, I'd rather have the great whatever than the sufficient whatever.


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## hag01 (Nov 17, 2021)

Audio-Technica M50X


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## bill5 (Nov 17, 2021)

Pier said:


> Maybe not "great for mixing" but at least "sufficient for mixing given you learn the ins and outs".


IMO you could say that about almost any headphones now days. Tech is that good.


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## timbit2006 (Nov 17, 2021)

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Free Shipping in North America on the iSK HD-9999 headphones "The iSK HD-9999 are my new favourite headphones, easily worth twice the price or more" - John Kurzweg (multi platinum producer/engineer- Creed, Puddle of Mud, Godsmack) http://www.johnkurzweg.com/gear-i-use-endorse/ The iSK HD-9999...




www.iskproaudio.com




There is no such thing as a better budget headphone than this unit in my opinion. 
They're made by Alctron-Ningbo. They also do a great job for live session monitoring headphones since they barely leak any sound from them, buying 6 for a whole band setup wont set you back a lot either.


----------



## Pier (Nov 17, 2021)

bill5 said:


> IMO you could say that about almost any headphones now days. Tech is that good.


Probably any professional headphones, but I don't imagine anyone doing serious mixing on Beats.


----------



## bill5 (Nov 17, 2021)

Sorry not following..."Beats?"


----------



## bill5 (Nov 17, 2021)

timbit2006 said:


> HD-9999 Headphones
> 
> 
> Free Shipping in North America on the iSK HD-9999 headphones "The iSK HD-9999 are my new favourite headphones, easily worth twice the price or more" - John Kurzweg (multi platinum producer/engineer- Creed, Puddle of Mud, Godsmack) http://www.johnkurzweg.com/gear-i-use-endorse/ The iSK HD-9999...
> ...


Looks to me like they're made by isk.  They sub out?


----------



## bill5 (Nov 17, 2021)

ah thanks for translation. So expensive and suck. Weird. On the other hand, I've seen some very inexpensive headphones that did well (or were vouched for by people I think had a clue) though. I'm talking as little as $20ish believe it or not.


----------



## timbit2006 (Nov 17, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Looks to me like they're made by isk.  They sub out?


It's all part of the Chinese audio manufacturing empire. One dirty secret a lot of the headphone manufacturers don't tell you is they outsource their own driver production to companies like Ningbo-Alctron. ISK is just the main house brand that they produce for international retail sales.


----------



## Pier (Nov 17, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Sorry not following..."Beats?"


It's a very popular headphones brand founded by a famous rapper. Check this article where it's claimed Beats controls 70% of the premium headphones market (I'm guessing in the US).

Apple bought the company in 2014 but it's still releasing the Beats products under a separate brand.






Beats Electronics - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





They are expensive and sound like crap.


----------



## bill5 (Nov 17, 2021)

And being founded by a rapper, what a surprise that is. 

lol @ the general public.


----------



## MattBlostein (Nov 17, 2021)

+1 for AKG 371. Have had them for about a year and very happy. I’ve found that they are very neutral and translate well enough to stop using Sonarworks.


----------



## proxima (Nov 17, 2021)

Any chance you can borrow or try some models out in person? Especially if you don't consider yourself very picky (or your hearing suffers more than the subtleties of headphones), comfort matters most.

I do think it's rather unfair to try stuff out retail to turn around and buy online, but ymmv. Perhaps just be ready to ship them back if you can't comfortably wear them for hours at a time.

Oh, and for those headphones that clamp too tightly, I find I can typically stretch them out with a day or two attached to an appropriately sized box. The box for my HD 600s worked great to stretch them out a bit.


----------



## Pier (Nov 17, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> Leftfield, but worth getting a set of these and applying the eq, even if just as a second reference pair. They do sound very very good for the money!
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/9-headphone-review-sony-mdr-zx110.19484/


Ok I just bought a pair of these Sony MDR-ZX110 for $15 on Amazon Mexico.

They'd better be good! I've had to mortgage the house to get them!


----------



## R10k (Nov 17, 2021)

kilgurt said:


> Sony MDR-7506 - I use 'em too. Not as comfortable as my Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO, but very honest, especially in the low range (-> Andrew Scheps). Great for mixing!​​



Good video... as I've heard before, buy one or more and get used to them. I have 7506s for some things and AKG 371s for others. The Beyer 990 Pros are amazing, and I'd love to get them one day. There are always pros and cons with headphones.


----------



## Pier (Nov 17, 2021)

R10k said:


> The Beyer 990 Pros are amazing, and I'd love to get them one day.


I have the 990s Pro 250ohm. I do not recommend them, regardless of the price.

Just an hour ago I was reading amirm's review on ASR and this is his conclusion:



> While the DT 990 Pro is a comfortable headphone to wear, it has a seriously flawed design with poor frequency response which exaggerates the heck out of highs and dumps a bunch of distortion in there for good measure. It also lacks deep bass reproduction. Careful equalization did manage to salvage it at the end but took a lot of doing.
> 
> *I am not going to recommend the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro.* It is just too broken. Even though EQ helped a lot, it is still an inefficient headphone with high distortion. If you have one, use my EQ and comment on how you like it. Otherwise it is a pass with or without EQ. Let's hope we can find a headphone as comfortable as this but with much better engineering.


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## R10k (Nov 17, 2021)

Pier said:


> I have the 990s Pro 250ohm. I do not recommend them, regardless of the price.
> 
> Just an hour ago I was reading amirm's review on ASR and this is his conclusion:


Sorry! My mistake - I meant the 900 Pro X. I'm sure that's the one I listened to in a shop, and came much more recommended than the 990 Pro


----------



## emid (Nov 18, 2021)

R10k said:


> Sorry! My mistake - I meant the 900 Pro X. I'm sure that's the one I listened to in a shop, and came much more recommended than the 990 Pro


I just got DT900 Pro X two days back and I'm loving them so far. For now my observations are these cans have a detailed and upfront midrange with tamed highs. Tamed in a good way that they are not harsh like in 770s' or 990s'. They have a controlled bass or lows. They are 'fast' and responsive. I think Beyer addressed the harshness issue in the earlier versions and they came up with these phones. If you are in UK, today is the last day of a really good DEAL on ebay by music-matter. I got them for £175 while the original price is around £219 everywhere. They are selling out fast compared to DT700 Pro X and I have just checked they got only 3 items left.


----------



## R10k (Nov 18, 2021)

emid said:


> I just got DT900 Pro X two days back and I'm loving them so far. For now my observations are these cans have a detailed and upfront midrange with tamed highs. Tamed in a good way that they are not harsh like in 770s' or 990s'. They have a controlled bass or lows. They are 'fast' and responsive. I think Beyer addressed the harshness issue in the earlier versions and they came up with these phones. If you are in UK, today is the last day of a really good DEAL on ebay by music-matter. I got them for £175 while the original price is around £219 everywhere. They are selling out fast compared to DT700 Pro X and I have just checked they got only 3 items left.


Sadly I'm in Australia... but thanks for the thoughts!

EDIT: seems the sale price is what they retail for here!


----------



## emid (Nov 18, 2021)

R10k said:


> Sadly I'm in Australia... but thanks for the thoughts!
> 
> EDIT: seems the sale price is what they retail for here!


Then the sale price in Australia would probably be more cheaper if you find one. Here, it's ranging between £211-£219. Anyway, hope you get the best.


----------



## Pier (Nov 21, 2021)

Pier said:


> Ok I just bought a pair of these Sony MDR-ZX110 for $15 on Amazon Mexico.
> 
> They'd better be good! I've had to mortgage the house to get them!


I've been using these for a couple of days and they do sound good.

One important thing I have to mention is that IMO the quality of the sound will depend a lot on one's head and ear shape. When I put them on, they sound boxy. But if I press gently on the cups to put the driver a bit closer to my ear, this boxiness disappears. Maybe this could be fixed with different pads, but a quick Amazon search didn't produce anything interesting.

The build quality is crap. They feel extremely flimsy and cheap. OTOH this makes them super lightweight and surprisingly comfortable.

I had to add some low end via EQ. On the ASR review thread Amirm also added some treble peaks which I found unnecessary. I'm still fiddling around with the EQ though.

Regarding its sound I haven't done any serious comparison as I did with the T50RP. So take these impressions with some skepticism.

In general the sound signature reminds me of my Sennheiser PXC550. I prefer the sound of the Sony, when not using the noise cancelling and no DSP EQ on the PXC550 which alter its sound considerably.

After EQ, the low end reproduction is tight and goes fairly deep. I could hear down to 30Hz on this video test.

The mid range doesn't feel super flat, but it's better than all cheap headphones I've used.

The treble is soft, but not as soft as the HD600 for example.

The soundstage is surprisingly good for closed headphones.

For $15 these are amazing headphones, but Amirm's claim these are "extremely accurate and audiophile headphone" might be a bit exaggerated IMO. Or maybe they fit perfectly with his head and ears (unlike mine).


----------



## lux (Nov 21, 2021)

another option in this price range is Sennheiser HD 560s.

Also give a look at Superlux 681, 662 and 330 series. Its like one hundred (maybe less) for the three of them and (no one using them will confess, but I suspect a few here are guilty of using them at their studio) they sound just great. 681 over all. Insane price/quality ratio.


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## Pier (Nov 21, 2021)

liquidlino said:


> Excellent! So you won't be putting them up on the VI for sale section within three days then? A win!


LOL The shipping would be more expensive than the headphones themselves.

I don't think I will be using these much, to be honest. Not because they are bad, but because they don't add anything to the headphones I already use.

I will probably give them to one of my nephews or something.


----------



## bill5 (Nov 21, 2021)

lux said:


> another option in this price range is Sennheiser HD 560s.
> 
> Also give a look at Superlux 681, 662 and 330 series. Its like one hundred (maybe less) for the three of them and (no one using them will confess, but I suspect a few here are guilty of using them at their studio) they sound just great. 681 over all. Insane price/quality ratio.


Just FYI the 681s are semi-open, not sure about the others.

Two more budget ones I've heard people say punch above their price are the Behringer HPS3000 and Limitless HP3BK. I have not used so FWIW.


----------



## Quasar (Nov 21, 2021)

Haven't backread all of this, but has anyone mentioned the recent drop.com sales?

The Sennheiser HD 58X is on sale for $129, well under stated budget:









Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee Headphones | Open-Back Audiophile Headphones | Drop


Headphones with history. The HD 58X uses Sennheiser’s new 150-ohm drivers, has a glossy black headband and gray metal grilles. These open-back headphones continue to please many ears at an unbeatable price.




drop.com





Many say these sound more like the HD 600s than Drop's 6XX (said to be more 650-ish), which is also on sale for $179.


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## lux (Nov 21, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Just FYI the 681s are semi-open, not sure about the others.


Yes. 330 are semi-open as well, while 662 are closed.


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## bill5 (Nov 21, 2021)

lux said:


> another option in this price range is Sennheiser HD 560s.
> 
> Also give a look at Superlux 681, 662 and 330 series. Its like one hundred (maybe less) for the three of them and (no one using them will confess, but I suspect a few here are guilty of using them at their studio) they sound just great. 681 over all. Insane price/quality ratio.


How's the overall build and comfort level?


----------



## Pier (Nov 21, 2021)

Quasar said:


> Haven't backread all of this, but has anyone mentioned the recent drop.com sales?
> 
> The Sennheiser HD 58X is on sale for $129, well under stated budget:
> 
> ...


They ship to remote countries like Malaysia or Mauritius but not to Mexico which shares a border with the US... 😭


----------



## Quasar (Nov 21, 2021)

Pier said:


> They ship to remote countries like Malaysia or Mauritius but not to Mexico which shares a border with the US... 😭


----------



## bill5 (Nov 21, 2021)




----------



## MartinH. (Nov 21, 2021)

lux said:


> another option in this price range is Sennheiser HD 560s.
> 
> Also give a look at Superlux 681, 662 and 330 series. Its like one hundred (maybe less) for the three of them and (no one using them will confess, but I suspect a few here are guilty of using them at their studio) they sound just great. 681 over all. Insane price/quality ratio.



Superlux HD681 were my first "audio" headphones. I didn't really like how they fit, how warm they are and they aren't very linear imho. I bought DT770 pros and wasn't happy with them either, only kept them because they isolate very well. Then I bought the HD58x and it's a rather uncomfortable fit for my head, worse than the DT770. But at least sound wise I think they are good enough for what I need if I use my subwoofer to double check the super low frequency content. No plans to upgrade further any time soon.

After bending the Superlux HD681 open a bit to reduce clamping force they are bearable to wear for a bit longer (in winter at least, probably still too warm for summer) and I now use them sometimes when I'm gaming in bed. If you asked me whether you should buy 3 cheap headphones for ~30$ each or the HD58x for 129$, I think the answer is obvious. Get the HD58x. If you buy it on sale and don't like it, you might be able to sell it on ebay without loss when the sale is over.


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## Tralen (Nov 21, 2021)

bill5 said:


> Just FYI the 681s are semi-open, not sure about the others.
> 
> Two more budget ones I've heard people say punch above their price are the Behringer HPS3000 and Limitless HP3BK. I have not used so FWIW.


If I recall, the Superlux 681 also had a version made by Samson, the SR850. They were sold by the dozen for studios here in Brazil, without package or anything. Pretty good half-open for the price.


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## lux (Nov 21, 2021)

bill5 said:


> How's the overall build and comfort level?


overall build is related to price of course but not in a 1/1 ratio. Plasticky. But honestly way better than expected. I personally find them comfortable enough for my ears. Martin offers a different view on this, so I guess it's really personal.



MartinH. said:


> Superlux HD681 were my first "audio" headphones. I didn't really like how they fit, how warm they are and they aren't very linear imho. I bought DT770 pros and wasn't happy with them either, only kept them because they isolate very well. Then I bought the HD58x and it's a rather uncomfortable fit for my head, worse than the DT770. But at least sound wise I think they are good enough for what I need if I use my subwoofer to double check the super low frequency content. No plans to upgrade further any time soon.
> 
> After bending the Superlux HD681 open a bit to reduce clamping force they are bearable to wear for a bit longer (in winter at least, probably still too warm for summer) and I now use them sometimes when I'm gaming in bed. If you asked me whether you should buy 3 cheap headphones for ~30$ each or the HD58x for 129$, I think the answer is obvious. Get the HD58x. If you buy it on sale and don't like it, you might be able to sell it on ebay without loss when the sale is over.


well, I mentioned those as, sometimes, having more than one pair of headphones is a good move if you aim at getting a decent mix and you use prevalently your heaphones for tracking and mixing, and sometimes mastering. I got a good number of headphones that I reference on final mix to fix stuff. Often I need just 1-2 minutes of a different heaphones to spot a problem and fix it. I personally find the 681 pretty balanced and detailed, but I think it's really what resonates with us, as I heard good and horrible things about almost all the headphones out there (well maybe not on the HD600, except that they are too comfortable so you get satisfied too easily)

There are of course way better options than a 681, that's why, as an example, I mentioned the 560s that I appreciated a lot. The usual suspects (Beyer, AT 50, HD600, Sony Mdr...) were already mentioned. Still, having the ability to reference three pretty decent sounding heaphones for under one hundred is in my opinion a good thing. And I can tell that many engineers I know have a pair of those in the studio. I mean, for this price there's not much to loose in trying one.

I reference also on cheap headphones like Sony's 20 euro something (to see if I mixed too dark or too bassy). And small portable speakers.

I've heard good things about YAMAHA HPH-MT5 and I'm really curious about Avantone MP1 (in the "clinical listening" category). I'm gonna get those soon.


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## Ivan M. (Nov 22, 2021)

Hard to recommend. It's best if you can try them out somewhere. It's not only about the frequency response, but also the precision, sound stage, and heat! Take a look at rtings website (they also measure heat).

Regarding m50x, I had been using them for a few years. You need to EQ correct them, then they can sound quite pleasing. The thing that bothered me the most is the heat! And to some extent clamping. And that is not a problem exclusive to these, it's a problem in most headphones.

I have not owned beyers, but one time I tried them on, they clamped like crazy! Not sure which model it was, but I ruled out beyers immediately. At the same time, some people find them comfortable, so that's why you need to try them on.

I realised there is no perfect headphone, only good enough, and you have to make compromises, and decide what's the priority: sound or comfort. If you don't care about precision and frequency response that much, because of your hearing, then at least get the one's that are comfortable.

Personally, I was looking for more comfort (including less heat!), and went with agk k701, much more comfortable than m50x, less heat, more precise, and a really nice soundstage. However, it's not perfect, needs EQ-ing, and the pads are stiff and annoying. Already thinking about replacing them with something more comfortable.

I'm tempted to just pay for the HD800s, as it has the lowest heat measurement, and should be comfortable, but I don't have where to test them. Choosing headphones is so frustrating!


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## MartinH. (Nov 22, 2021)

lux said:


> overall build is related to price of course but not in a 1/1 ratio. Plasticky. But honestly way better than expected. I personally find them comfortable enough for my ears. Martin offers a different view on this, so I guess it's really personal.
> 
> 
> well, I mentioned those as, sometimes, having more than one pair of headphones is a good move if you aim at getting a decent mix and you use prevalently your heaphones for tracking and mixing, and sometimes mastering. I got a good number of headphones that I reference on final mix to fix stuff. Often I need just 1-2 minutes of a different heaphones to spot a problem and fix it. I personally find the 681 pretty balanced and detailed, but I think it's really what resonates with us, as I heard good and horrible things about almost all the headphones out there (well maybe not on the HD600, except that they are too comfortable so you get satisfied too easily)
> ...



Thank you for the explanation, that actually makes a lot of sense! I may have dismissed that option too quickly.


----------



## polyfonic (Nov 22, 2021)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> My ears are not so good anymore (particularly the left one) so I don't need the audiophile headphones that most of you use.
> 
> I'm looking for something that's comfortable, well-built and as good as is possible to buy within my budget.
> 
> ...


I would definetly recommend Beyerdynamics DT 770 PRO together with Sonarworks SoundID Reference for headphones. My productions and mixes has improved a lot after I combined the plugin (Sonarworks) with my headphones. The Beyerdynamics I love because they are very gentle to my ears both hearingwise and comfort.

Check out Sonarworks here:








SoundID Reference - Speaker & Headphone Calibration


Create with full confidence in sound with speaker & headphone calibration software SoundID Reference. Already trusted by over 100'000 studios globally.




www.sonarworks.com


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## RAdkins (Nov 22, 2021)

I picked up the Drop 58X on sale and will pickup Sonarworks at the end of the week when it goes on sale.


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## creativeforge (Dec 27, 2021)

river angler said:


> Beyer DT150


These, you mean?
*Beyerdynamic DT-150-250-GREY Closed Dynamic Monitoring Headphone for use in Loud Environments*​


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## Reid Rosefelt (Dec 27, 2021)

For the record, I bought the Beyerdynamic DT-770. I love them. 
The only negative is that I am kicking myself for not buying them earlier.

I thought I posted this earlier, but maybe I didn't. I was very distracted being Tiger the Frog when I bought them.


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## creativeforge (Dec 27, 2021)

Reid Rosefelt said:


> For the record, I bought the Beyerdynamic DT-770. I love them.
> The only negative is that I am kicking myself for not buying them earlier.
> 
> I thought I posted this earlier, but maybe I didn't. I was very distracted being Tiger the Frog when I bought them.




And which one exactly did you get?






Search


Long & McQuade is Canada`s biggest music store offering a huge selection of musical instruments and music lessons across Canada. Guitars & Drums!




www.long-mcquade.com






Asking because decision-making on AKG 371 or DT770 for a second pair of MIXING headphones (I have HD600).


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## Reid Rosefelt (Dec 27, 2021)

creativeforge said:


> And which one exactly did you get?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 80 ohm. 

I did consider the semi-open and open models, but it's very noisy here so I went with this.


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## river angler (Dec 27, 2021)

creativeforge said:


> These, you mean?
> *Beyerdynamic DT-150-250-GREY Closed Dynamic Monitoring Headphone for use in Loud Environments*​



Yes!


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## creativeforge (Dec 27, 2021)

UPDATE : So a bit OT from the OP, but as I spent a few hours reading on headphones reviews to find a good option from my HD600, I made my way to the music store and sampled what they had on their headphones rack.

I had with me a copy of a mix I'm having issues with. I had been mixing solely on the HD600 for 2-3 months. Until a few days ago where I listened to it on my monitors (HS5 Yamahas). And it was an epiphany - suddenly I could "see" the sound in space, and could see a few major issues to correct immediately.

So at the store it would serve as a good track to test (an mp3 @ 160 kbps). Unfortunately their selection was not very extensive but there was a pair of AKG 271 MKII, and they very nearly reproduced the experience I had with the monitors. I could identify the issues just as clearly.

I found the highs a tad gritty, but I'll confirm when I listen here at home with full wav mixes rather than mp3. And the store assured me that if I ever wanted to jump from the AKG 271 MKII to Beyer's DT770 (within the next 30 days), that it would be possible.

Thanks! Looking forward to work with these new cans and get results nearly as good when listening through the monitors.


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 27, 2021)

Selfinflicted said:


> Audio-Technica ATH m50x is a good bet. I have a lot of headphones and like these most in your price range. They're quite good.





easyrider said:


> Audio-Technica ATH-M50X.​


Although I rarely use headphones, these are what I use when I do

I have them in white - very sharp looking


----------



## creativeforge (Dec 27, 2021)

MorphineNoir said:


> Although I rarely use headphones, these are what I use when I do
> 
> I have them in white - very sharp looking


For tracking or mixing? Comfortable for extended use? (2 hours)


----------



## MusiquedeReve (Dec 27, 2021)

creativeforge said:


> For tracking or mixing? Comfortable for extended use? (2 hours)


Tracking

I've never worn them longer than 45 minutes or so but they were comfortable for that amount of time


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## river angler (Dec 28, 2021)

I never mix on headphones. Period. Headphones for me are strictly for monitoring/tracking/referencing. Most pro studio engineers will tell you that. Even the pairs of HD600 I own have only ever been used for referencing mastered recordings (mixed on studio monitors!) ... and as mentioned some time back in this thread I have many pairs of DT150 that are only ever used for tracking duties.

Headphones by their physical nature send sound waves over an extremely short distance between their drivers and your ear drums instead of pushing sound waves through considerable space that speakers do. Sound waves are perceived differently depending how near your ears are to the physical sound drivers. We don't listen to speakers with our ears right next to the drivers like we do in headphones: it's for this reason if you create a mix on a pair of headphones it will always sound different on a pair of speakers but not the other way round because with headphones all you are actually doing is mimicking the volume your ears would listen to speakers if you were to place your ears right over the speaker drivers! Of course headphone designers will market their cans as being "very close to listening to studio monitors" however this is a little misleading! That the cans can indeed sound like you are listening to speakers is all well and good but that doesn't mean you can actually mix on them in the same way you do on speaker monitors!
Hence headphones are fine for referencing a mix but not for actually creating one!


----------



## creativeforge (Dec 28, 2021)

river angler said:


> I never mix on headphones. Period. Headphones for me are strictly for monitoring/tracking/referencing. Any pro studio engineer will tell you that. Even the pairs of HD600 I own have only ever been used for referencing mastered recordings (mixed on studio monitors!) ... and as mentioned some time back in this thread I have many pairs of DT150 that are only ever used for tracking duties.
> 
> Headphones by their physical nature send sound waves over an extremely short distance between their drivers and your ear drums instead of pushing sound waves through considerable space that speakers do. Sound waves are perceived differently depending how near your ears are to the physical sound drivers. We don't listen to speakers with our ears right next to the drivers like we do in headphones: it's for this reason if you create a mix on a pair of headphones it will always sound different on a pair of speakers but not the other way round because with headphones all you are actually doing is mimicking the volume your ears would listen to speakers if you were to place your ears right over the speaker drivers! Of course headphone designers will market their cans as being "very close to listening to studio monitors" however this is a little misleading! That the cans can indeed sound like you are listening to speakers is all well and good but that doesn't mean you can actually mix on them in the same way you do on speaker monitors!
> Hence headphones are fine for referencing a mix but not for actually creating one!



Thanks for the helpful illustrative explanation!  

Andre


----------



## river angler (Dec 28, 2021)

creativeforge said:


> Thanks for the helpful illustrative explanation!
> 
> Andre


Pleasure


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## Mornats (Dec 28, 2021)

creativeforge said:


> For tracking or mixing? Comfortable for extended use? (2 hours)


I have the M50x and DT880 pro and I'd say for 2 hours+, the DT880 pro would still sit relatively unnoticed on my head. My M50x would need me to take them off to give my ears some air and to let them breathe a little.

If you wear glasses, I find that the M50x pushes the arms of the glasses into the bones at the back of my ears more than the 880s do.


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## fabian (Dec 28, 2021)

Shure SRH840 is what I use here. I'm very happy with tem.


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## Pier (Dec 28, 2021)

Mornats said:


> I have the M50x and DT880 pro and I'd say for 2 hours+, the DT880 pro would still sit relatively unnoticed on my head. My M50x would need me to take them off to give my ears some air and to let them breathe a little.


I used the M50 for years and I agree the Beyers are on another level comfort wise.

Another issue is that the pads of the M50 start to crack after some time which makes them even more uncomfortable. The head band also starts breaking down and you get stuff on your hair. At least that was my experience.


----------



## dcoscina (Dec 28, 2021)

I have M40x and they are ok but not very comfy. I just ordered some Sennheiser's.. I also have AT-R70s open backs but they are way more expensive than $150. 

I do all of my mixing on cans because I have two dogs who won't shut up when they hear anything remotely close to piano..... But I love them dearly so that's my compromise. 

I haven't had any complaints from clients about my mixes...


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## Pier (Dec 28, 2021)

river angler said:


> I never mix on headphones. Period. Headphones for me are strictly for monitoring/tracking/referencing. Any pro studio engineer will tell you that.


I guess Andrew Scheps is not a professional engineer then.


----------



## Mornats (Dec 28, 2021)

Pier said:


> I used the M50 for years and I agree the Beyers are on another level comfort wise.
> 
> Another issue is that the pads of the M50 start to crack after some time which makes them even more uncomfortable. The head band also starts breaking down and you get stuff on your hair. At least that was my experience.


I've already replaced the pads on the M50x with the official ones and the band is flaking too. They've had heavy use for 5 years though.


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## creativeforge (Dec 28, 2021)

OMG, I love these headphones! AKG 271 MKII, bring clarity to the audio workspace way better than my HD600. As compared to them, the HD600 do sound muddier, almost depressing.


----------



## fabian (Dec 29, 2021)

river angler said:


> I never mix on headphones. Period. Headphones for me are strictly for monitoring/tracking/referencing. Any pro studio engineer will tell you that. Even the pairs of HD600 I own have only ever been used for referencing mastered recordings (mixed on studio monitors!) ... and as mentioned some time back in this thread I have many pairs of DT150 that are only ever used for tracking duties.
> 
> Headphones by their physical nature send sound waves over an extremely short distance between their drivers and your ear drums instead of pushing sound waves through considerable space that speakers do. Sound waves are perceived differently depending how near your ears are to the physical sound drivers. We don't listen to speakers with our ears right next to the drivers like we do in headphones: it's for this reason if you create a mix on a pair of headphones it will always sound different on a pair of speakers but not the other way round because with headphones all you are actually doing is mimicking the volume your ears would listen to speakers if you were to place your ears right over the speaker drivers! Of course headphone designers will market their cans as being "very close to listening to studio monitors" however this is a little misleading! That the cans can indeed sound like you are listening to speakers is all well and good but that doesn't mean you can actually mix on them in the same way you do on speaker monitors!
> Hence headphones are fine for referencing a mix but not for actually creating one!


a "mix" with headphones is "suicide".. headphones are GREAT for recording, but never for a mix..I agree with you. I made BIG mistakes in the past mixing with headphones, mainly with stereo reverbs, and delays..everything sounds great with good headphones, but is not the REAL sound you need after the mix..


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## river angler (Dec 29, 2021)

Pier said:


> I guess Andrew Scheps is not a professional engineer then.


I'm guessing this excerpt is from the article you are referring to!...

"I still check (unless I absolutely can’t) every single mix I do on speakers. There are certain times where I think the kick and snare work fine on headphones. But when I listen back on speakers I can tell that they might be a little too mushy. Or that they need to punch more or something like that. But once I hear the problems on speakers, I can then easily hear it on headphones. For me, it’s things like the impact of a mix I won’t necessarily know unless I check on speakers. Because you actually don’t get the air moving on headphones.... If you mix on headphones and then go to your speakers and notice there are a lot of problems. Go back to your headphones and make sure you can still hear those problems. If you can’t you should try a different pair of headphones."

...notice he says change your headphones not the speakers!


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## Pier (Dec 29, 2021)

river angler said:


> I'm guessing this excerpt is from the article you are referring to!...
> 
> "I still check (unless I absolutely can’t) every single mix I do on speakers. There are certain times where I think the kick and snare work fine on headphones. But when I listen back on speakers I can tell that they might be a little too mushy. Or that they need to punch more or something like that. But once I hear the problems on speakers, I can then easily hear it on headphones. For me, it’s things like the impact of a mix I won’t necessarily know unless I check on speakers. Because you actually don’t get the air moving on headphones.... If you mix on headphones and then go to your speakers and notice there are a lot of problems. Go back to your headphones and make sure you can still hear those problems. If you can’t you should try a different pair of headphones."
> 
> ...notice he says change your headphones not the speakers!


Right, so he *mixes* on headphones but then checks the mix on speakers.

Stop it with the "real engineers don't mix on headphones" stuff.


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## Pier (Dec 29, 2021)

creativeforge said:


> OMG, I love these headphones! AKG 271 MKII, bring clarity to the audio workspace way better than my HD600. As compared to them, the HD600 do sound muddier, almost depressing.


Yeah the HD600 are quite dark on the treble, but the mid range is glorious. The low end is not as sharp as others. This becomes very obvious when switching to planar headphones which have so much detail and precision it might feel overwhelming at first.

Personally, I find the HD280 to be better than the HD600 in all aspects (sound wise) except that they are closed and the low end might be a bit receded for some (easily fixed with a bit of EQ). If Sennheiser made some open headphones with the same response as the HD280 it would be the perfect headphones for me.


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## river angler (Dec 29, 2021)

Pier said:


> Right, so he *mixes* on headphones but then checks the mix on speakers.
> 
> Stop it with the "real engineers don't mix on headphones" stuff.


Considering Andy Schoeps mentions in this article that he always has to reference back to speakers and that in general speakers are undisputedly the indispensable mixing tool the vast majority of pro engineers use in the industry to mix on, does convey that he hasn't lost touch of this fact nor that at the very least he is one of the very few who do practice using headphones in this way! But for your pleasure I have altered my statement to: "most pro engineers will tell you that!"


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## Reid Rosefelt (Jan 10, 2022)

FYI, there is a 15% off sale at newegg on Beyerdynamic Headphones. 48 hours only.
Enter promo code EMCBNAZ6 at Checkout. 

That would be about $127 for a pair of DT-770 PROs. Nice price. I may pick up a second pair, as I hate listening to my phones at my other computer now.


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