# The reality of working fulltime, as a composer with a day gig.



## Studio E (Oct 19, 2021)

I’m not sure how others handle it, but I’m getting a pretty big reality check right about now. I’ve been doing music for media for a couple decades, but just as it came my way. I made more and more connections, and eventually, all of those years of doing 6 - 10 short films and a few commercial projects, led me to being scheduled for 3 independent feature length films, all tentatively scheduled for a 6 month window, but I’m seriously hoping for some delays in production, haha. Seriously, I know all three of these filmmakers, and I know that they have all suffered setbacks along the way, and they all know my situation as well. That said, it doesn’t seem to curb their appetite for my destruction over the coming months. 

I’m a non-trained, but have a decent amount of theory, plink-at-the-keys till something happens sort of composer. I was really big into orchestral stuff for a time, but in recent years, have been called upon for more minimalistic scores. I’m past the halfway point of the first film, in regards to minutes of film music written, but far from the middle when considering revisions (my own), tweaking, and mixing. My day goes like this. Wake at 5:00am, in the studio by 5:45, work until about 7:30, go to my day job, come home for lunch, spend another 45 minutes in the studio, back to my day job, home at 5:00, back in the studio by 5:30 and work until my brain is numb, which is usually 8:00pm. That is Monday through Friday. On the weekends, I just head downstairs to the studio and work as long as possible, often from 5:00am till late evening, with some breaks. 

I know that expectations are going to exceed what’s possible as far as schedules, and I’m also prepared to off-load the work to someone else, ie, resign from the projects if they can’t handle waiting. I think all-in-all, at this unsustainable pace, I’ll be at about 3-4 months per feature. I do everything myself, as far as writing through delivery of a mixed master, all in the box. I do have a co-composer who is starting to contribute a little, but seriously, only in the 1-2% range of saving me any time. 

I really want to wake up about summer of next year, look back, and be amazed at what I did, but wow, at what cost? I’m seriously having my fill and then some. The thing we all think we want, until it happens and you forgot about the part of needing to survive as well. I’ve written other posts about just finding contentment along life’s path while also engaging in your passion. I’m completely out of balance and fully aware of it, as is my family. I’m not complaining, but just thought I’d share my take at the moment. 

Peace.


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## Markrs (Oct 19, 2021)

I very much appreciate you writing this post and giving us an honest view of how things are for you. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to do 3 films, whilst working a day job along with a family. Personally it sounds too much for me, but I know everyone is different. 

My concern for you is that if you are struggling now, it will only get harder as fatigue really starts to set in, plus any additional stress that may come from your day job or events in your personal life. Make sure you look after your mental and physical health.


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## Studio E (Oct 19, 2021)

It is indeed too much, but I’m going to move forward like there’s no choose. Although the other two films have been shot and have a tentative post schedule, I’ve also seen them get behind countless times, so I am really thinking I might be granted a little more time, or a breather. No guarantees but I’m hoping.

In the meantime, I get a couple miles a day of walking during breaks in the morning and afternoon at my day job, and I eat pretty darn healthy, especially for an American. I’ll update this post as things evolve. Thanks for the input!


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## darkogav (Oct 19, 2021)

Wow.. it takes you 30 mins to get to work? I commute 1.5 hrs each way. I usually leave at 7am and don't get home until 7 or 7:30pm from work.


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## Studio E (Oct 19, 2021)

darkogav said:


> Wow.. it takes you 30 mins to get to work? I commute 1.5 hrs each way. I usually leave at 7am and don't get home until 7 or 7:30pm from work.


It literally takes me 5 minutes, door-to-door.


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## Stringtree (Oct 19, 2021)

Your stuff sounds great; thanks for the perspective in your post. It will take some time to listen to more, but I like what I hear on your website. 

Yeah, independent films. What a treat, especially those for contests. Because music doesn't take any time to do right. (that was sarcasm)

Hopefully, and it sounds like it is the case with your situation, your job is not a nail-biting horror show. Best of luck with the next year. You'll emerge with some great new stuff.


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## Ian Dorsch (Oct 19, 2021)

Man, I really, really relate to this. When you reach that point where you are essentially working two full time jobs it's virtually impossible to keep up the pace for any length of time without making major sacrifices.

I did a stretch from November 2020-June 2021 where I worked between 12 and 15 hrs/day, no real days off, and I felt awesome for about the first 2 months! So productive! Look at me go! Fast forward to about April - I was the proverbial frog in the pot, unaware that I had become miserable and was making everyone around me miserable too. By the end of that stretch, I was barely holding it together. I have been on a more reasonable schedule since the summer, trying to give myself at least one weekend day off per week, and I absolutely feel like I am still mentally recovering. It turns out that burnout is a real thing!

Good luck with your projects, and sustaining yourself and your family through this grueling stretch. It's the best, and also the worst!


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## JonS (Oct 19, 2021)

Studio E said:


> I’m not sure how others handle it, but I’m getting a pretty big reality check right about now. I’ve been doing music for media for a couple decades, but just as it came my way. I made more and more connections, and eventually, all of those years of doing 6 - 10 short films and a few commercial projects, led me to being scheduled for 3 independent feature length films, all tentatively scheduled for a 6 month window, but I’m seriously hoping for some delays in production, haha. Seriously, I know all three of these filmmakers, and I know that they have all suffered setbacks along the way, and they all know my situation as well. That said, it doesn’t seem to curb their appetite for my destruction over the coming months.
> 
> I’m a non-trained, but have a decent amount of theory, plink-at-the-keys till something happens sort of composer. I was really big into orchestral stuff for a time, but in recent years, have been called upon for more minimalistic scores. I’m past the halfway point of the first film, in regards to minutes of film music written, but far from the middle when considering revisions (my own), tweaking, and mixing. My day goes like this. Wake at 5:00am, in the studio by 5:45, work until about 7:30, go to my day job, come home for lunch, spend another 45 minutes in the studio, back to my day job, home at 5:00, back in the studio by 5:30 and work until my brain is numb, which is usually 8:00pm. That is Monday through Friday. On the weekends, I just head downstairs to the studio and work as long as possible, often from 5:00am till late evening, with some breaks.
> 
> ...


To be a composer one really needs to either get incredibly lucky or come from wealth. What you are doing is going to burn you out into total exhaustion and you won't want to be in this biz anymore. I can appreciate your situation. Sadly, I don't see a solution. Either you are getting paid enough money from these films to quit your day job or you are going to erode into nothingness. A huge problem I have with this biz is that no union exists that protects composers. And new composers get completely shafted all too often. The hours are very demanding when you get a project and too often the studios and producers want to pay composers so much less than they ought to be paying them simply because they have a lot of leverage and get use it over a composer's head to pay him/her virtually nothing, or at least nothing compared to how much that composer deserves and how much the studio has allotted to pay them. If you get lucky enough to get steady high paying gigs, that is the only way one can make it in this biz and that is almost impossible to achieve unless one is absurdly lucky.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Oct 19, 2021)

Studio E said:


> My day goes like this. Wake at 5:00am, in the studio by 5:45, work until about 7:30, go to my day job, come home for lunch, spend another 45 minutes in the studio, back to my day job, home at 5:00, back in the studio by 5:30 and work until my brain is numb, which is usually 8:00pm. That is Monday through Friday. On the weekends, I just head downstairs to the studio and work as long as possible, often from 5:00am till late evening, with some breaks.


Dude, WHY are you doing this?


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## José Herring (Oct 19, 2021)

There are some real pitfalls to it all. I've variously worked nights/ weekends full time. Sometimes music related sometimes not. In the end, when I got my own projects everything kind of suffered, family, health, delays in production schedules not being there when a director calls because I'm working somewhere else and can't really take the call. Sometimes losing out because of that. 

At some point you have to chose and if your family is supportive they will understand. It's tough gig because what we do is so uncertain financially but you honestly don't stand a chance unless you're 100% committed to music. Because for any given period of time there are 1000's of people that are fully committed. Bummer part is that it isn't the same people because most people quit to find a real job. So you are the one that is suffering the most trying to build something from nothing long after everybody else you know have given up and usually unfortunately long after you've put yourself and others into some finanical trouble. But in the end, funny thing about finances is that the trouble never really last.


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## Studio E (Oct 19, 2021)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Dude, WHY are you doing this?


Well, there are a few factors. The first two films are both for long-standing friends. Also, I have been dreaming about a feature-length gig for about 20 years. I've worked on endless commercials, short films, educational and corporate films, etc.... all in hopes that I would land here. I just didn't expect for the stars to align in a way that would make 3 features drop in a year (less than a year). If it gets to be too much, I'll let one of the coming films go, before I embark on the journey. I wouldn't quit during. And lastly, working hard is something that I pride myself on, as is being able to deliver. I had years in the Navy when I probably got less sleep than most do in a month. Not that that's right, but I'm just saying, I've been conditioned. I am only feeling the pain of one film right now, and I really just wanted to make a post as exactly what it is, a reality check. It might benefit someone else down the road, who knows. 

But yeah, I ask myself that regularly, lol.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Oct 19, 2021)

1. Take some time off your day job and really crunch through some of the work. What ever leave you have available to you (even unpaid if you can afford it?)

or

2. Hire some help? Not sure what your financials are like but if you're working full time + have 3 films coming up, surely you can spare some change for some grunts to relieve you of some of the busy work or hire professional mix/master engineers, midi gurus etc. 

Unless this is a regular occurrence for you, I'd say don't stress, adapt and get through it. If it does become regular, maybe re-evaluate where you're at in life and make some changes


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## Studio E (Oct 19, 2021)

Right, and to address one thing, I do view this as a temporary situation, and my day gig isn't just a job, it's a career with pension, great insurance, the whole bit, so I'm definitely not trying to launch into full-time, it just happened anyway. Hopefully I can just push hard, do these films, and reset my pace for life at the end of it all. I am early 50's, in good shape (relatively), and have an empty nest. As long as the love of my life supports me (fingers crossed, haha), I should come out "ok".


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## Mike Greene (Oct 19, 2021)

Studio E said:


> I have been dreaming about a feature-length gig for about 20 years. I've worked on endless commercials, short films, educational and corporate films, etc.... all in hopes that I would land here.


This is a pretty big deal. Years ago, when I was trying really hard to get a feature film, I couldn't even get considered for most of the projects I submitted for, because I didn't have a (legit) feature under my belt already. TV shows, commercials, short films, those were nice, and potential clients might even be slightly impressed. But then would come the part where they'd say they can't risk their film on a first timer.

So I can see why you'd want to do this. And by doing three, there's a better chance that at least one will be good. A bad film is better than no film, but to get considered for the good projects, you need a good credit. So I can totally see doing this.

That's not to say you _should_ do this three-film torture test, mind you. But I do understand it.


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## Arbee (Oct 19, 2021)

First, congrats for having this challenge on your plate, something many will only dream of!

If my 65 years of life have taught me anything, it's that absolutely everything in life comes at a cost, so the benefit of our choices needs to be weighed carefully against that cost. And, we need to know our exit triggers in advance to avoid the cost outweighing the benefit. A loving family and good regular career will cost you some personal freedom. A satisfying creative career can cost you all of the "normal lifestyle" comfort, love and niceties. As I've learnt from a close friend who floated his company and is now a multi-multi millionaire, even money itself comes at a cost, due to friends and family treating you differently.

Given this may only be a short term thing then absolutely go for it, but just know at what points you'll review your situation, and determine your options in advance and in which order you'd exit the various elements if necessary. For example, as you progress with it all, you might get to know which project and/or relationship is the one to "go first" if it comes to that.

Sorry for sounding all paternal, I've been in similar positions throughout my life and, even despite myself sometimes, the choices I've made have proven to be sound ones for all of those cost/benefit reasons. I've had a science career, a music career, a corporate career, I'm still married to the mother of my children and my children are very successful in their own fields and (I think) still love their dad . Good luck and give it heaps!!


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## stixman (Oct 20, 2021)

I have fond/not so fond memories of going from work straight to studios like Olympic Air for all night sessions remixing acts like Was Not Was, Bel Biv Devoe,Five Star, Stevie V (showing my age here lol ) till 7am then back at work 30 mins later for 7.30am then off on short European tours playing drums in front of tens of thousands then the next back at work gardening wasn’t realistically sustainable had a minor breakdown re-evaluated my life thankfully saw what is most important for me and it was my family unit we are 38 years still going strong so my 2pence worth is as long as it does not affect your relationship with the family your good…live the dream 🎶🎼


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## Jeremy Spencer (Oct 20, 2021)

Studio E said:


> My day goes like this. Wake at 5:00am, in the studio by 5:45, work until about 7:30, go to my day job, come home for lunch, spend another 45 minutes in the studio, back to my day job, home at 5:00, back in the studio by 5:30 and work until my brain is numb, which is usually 8:00pm. That is Monday through Friday. On the weekends, I just head downstairs to the studio and work as long as possible, often from 5:00am till late evening, with some breaks.


Been there, done that (if I recall correctly, you're in the HVAC industry like myself). At this rate, one of two things will inevitably happen.....you will burn out and have to take stress leave.....or possibly harm your marriage. Your wife says she's okay with it, but trust me, she probably isn't. If you are being compensated handsomely up-front for the current film, you could take a leave of absence and get it done in a timely manner. I'm also in your age group, with a great non-musical career, but I have the fortunate position of being able to now pick and choose my "serious" composition gigs (which do provide a healthy second income in addition to fulfilling my musical passion). I never dreamed I would see the day when I could turn down gigs, but I do this quite often; this is a good reason to not burn bridges! I'm still getting work from clients that took a chance on me over twenty years ago.....reputation is everything.

PS- I hope you aren't doing these films without decent upfront payment, or some sort of decent compensation on the backend. At this point in your musical career (full time or not), it's simply not worth it otherwise IMHO.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Oct 20, 2021)

Hi, your schedule is certainly un-sustainable in the long run.
Personally, i would bring in a collaborator who would be happy to get credited and make a bit of money.
As we all know, there are lots of talented young composers that aspire to break into the business and would love to get such an opportunity.
Finding a good match is the trick.
Be a Hans Z. on a smaller scale!


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## MarkusS (Oct 22, 2021)

Studio E said:


> and they all know my situation as well. That said, it doesn’t seem to curb their appetite for my destruction over the coming months.


I really don't get what you are doing, or rather I don't get it anymore. Why would you do that to yourself and your family?

There is something fundamentally wrong with the attitude of many composers towards their own work. It's like their life depended on their success and recognition and even their own value as human beings. Or as if it's their god-given destiny to suffer in the name of art.

This is the perfect ground for abuse and if you don't stop it people will take advantage of you. And even this abuse is somehow glorified. And with every abuse that is accepted the market is dragged a little further down, making it more and more difficult to negotiate viable deals.

Do they pay you a decent amount for your work at least? I'm guessing not, because if they would, I suppose you would not need an additional day job.

There is no going back in time and life is short, just get out of it.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Oct 22, 2021)

MarkusS said:


> I really don't get what you are doing, or rather I don't get it anymore. Why would you do that to yourself and your family?
> 
> There is something fundamentally wrong with the attitude of many composers towards their own work. It's like their life depended on their success and recognition and even their own value as human beings. Or as if it's their god-given destiny to suffer in the name of art.
> 
> ...


Very well said, I completely agree. And based on the number of hours Eric is working, it probably equates to negative equity. I see zero benefit as a composer.


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## JonS (Oct 22, 2021)

MarkusS said:


> I really don't get what you are doing, or rather I don't get it anymore. Why would you do that to yourself and your family?
> 
> There is something fundamentally wrong with the attitude of many composers towards their own work. It's like their life depended on their success and recognition and even their own value as human beings. Or as if it's their god-given destiny to suffer in the name of art.
> 
> ...


I think there is a general problem and that is many producers want to exploit a composer in the worst way and there is no union to protect composers. So it's possible if you stand your ground and ask for higher creative fees you may get it or you simply don't get the gig. I got to a point where I'd rather not get the gig if I don't get the kind of reasonable fees I know I deserve. The studios always have enough money to pay reasonable and fair fees to the composer, so its never about the budget as it's simply some scumbag producer wanting to see how much he can oppress actors, writers, composers and others that are willing to work for much less than they deserve. Sometimes this means you don't get the gig.

This becomes very problematic for a composer who is trying to make it in this biz as its not like the phone is ringing off the hook for composers who don't have agents or have agents and are not on the A-list. The guys at the top of the A-list are constantly turning away work because they can't take it all on. Those not on the A-list are struggling to get an offer. This only makes this biz so much more intolerable to be in if you aren't on the A-list, which requires tremendous luck to penetrate since there are only so many major projects each year.

One of the first gigs I got offered was a direct-to-video for a major Hollywood studio. The production budget was $3.5 million and the producer said he would pay me $2,500 for the entire score, which ended up being about 50 minutes of original music. He said if I got an entertainment lawyer or agent involved in the negotiation he would not work with me at all and said it was a take it or leave it offer and not negotiable. When the #2 studio exec heard my music for the production he said it sounded like I composed a $100,000 score and was blown away by my work. 15 years later the producer who hired me told me the studio could have easily paid me $100,000 instead of the $2,500 I agreed to work for and I should have negotiated a much better deal than the one I accepted. This is how disgusting Hollywood can be when one is not on the A-list. So the next time any producer tells you that this is a take it or leave it offer or not negotiable or they won't negotiate with an agent or entertainment lawyer completely ignore what they say and make sure your creative fees are reasonable as there is no end to how much one can get taken advantage of in Hollywood. 

This happened to Robin Williams when he was an A-list superstar and got offered $100,000 to do Aladdin for Disney only to find out Disney had every intention of making it into a blockbuster success and he should have gotten tens of millions. Producers can be scumbags and liars and composers should simply stand up for themselves and demand reasonable fees or walk.

As a general rule, make sure your creative fee is at least 2% of the production budget or at least $500 per minute for original score, which ever is greater.


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## MarkusS (Oct 22, 2021)

JonS said:


> This becomes very problematic for a composer who is trying to make it in this biz as its not like the phone is ringing off the hook for composers who don't have agents or have agents and are not on the A-list. The guys at the top of the A-list are constantly turning away work because they can't take it all on. Those not on the A-list are struggling to get an offer. This only makes this biz so much more intolerable to be in if you aren't on the A-list, which requires tremendous luck to penetrate since there are only so many major projects each year.


You know, I am having rather the feeling that this unhealthy attitude towards work goes from the lowest of the low right to the highest peaks of the business. When I see A list composers advertise and exhibit their workaholism (and the way they throw away their lives) I wonder if it ever stops at some point, even if they have tenths of millions on their bank account.

It's almost like an inherent disease of music composers to have to prove their worth to the world while at the same time trying to crush the next man who might take their spot. It feels like there is no end to it and probably the fights at the top are as bloody as the ones at the bottom.


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## JonS (Oct 22, 2021)

MarkusS said:


> You know, I am having rather the feeling that this unhealthy attitude towards work goes from the lowest of the low right to the highest peaks of the business. When I see A list composers advertise and exhibit their workaholism (and the way they throw away their lives) I wonder if it ever stops at some point, even if they have tenths of millions on their bank account.
> 
> It's almost like an inherent disease of music composers to have to prove their worth to the world while at the same time trying to crush the next man who might take their spot. It feels like there is no end to it and probably the fights at the top are as bloody as the ones at the bottom.


That's a very valid point and an interesting perspective, Markus. On the other hand, Hollywood is an awful lot about momentum. So there are many actors and writers and other artisans that win Oscars and then drop off the face of the earth. No one really knows when their career will end, so perhaps there is a fear of losing their momentum and hence their careers if they don't take on that next project. Also, realize that the film industry is completely about the composer's relationship with that particular director. These are very delicate fragile realities. 

If that director starts working with a different composer he may never work with you again. This is the nature of the biz. And other than John Williams, I think most composers need to work for that one particular A-list director any time they call since that's the basis of their entire career. If you become lucky enough to have more than one A-list director wanting to hire you over and over again, I don't think any composer wants to say no to them because that could end their relationship with that director.

Additionally, what makes someone a talent in this biz is that the project makes huge money for the studio. Writing a film score is a complete subjective art form. It doesn't matter in the industry if one is talented or not as a composer. All that matters is you composed for a project that made huge money for the studio and director. If your involvement had actual merit or not, does not matter at all. It only matters that the project was a financial success and you were involved in that. If your score is brilliant but every project you do loses money for the studio, you won't have much of a career for long. So though I can determine if someone is talented or not regardless if the production won awards or made money, the studio only cares if it makes money. So you can be the not the most talented composer, but if your projects are huge successes you will be propelled to the top of the A-list and make enormous fees. It's all about the money not your talent.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Oct 22, 2021)

JonS said:


> That's a very valid point and an interesting perspective, Markus. On the other hand, Hollywood is an awful lot about momentum. So there are many actors and writers and other artisans that win Oscars and then drop off the face of the earth. No one really knows when their career will end, so perhaps there is a fear of losing their momentum and hence their careers if they don't take on that next project. Also, realize that the film industry is completely about the composer's relationship with that particular director. These are very delicate fragile realities.
> 
> If that director starts working with a different composer he may never work with you again. This is the nature of the biz. And other than John Williams, I think most composers need to work for that one particular A-list director any time they call since that's the basis of their entire career. If you become lucky enough to have more than one A-list director wanting to hire you over and over again, I don't think any composer wants to say no to them because that could end their relationship with that director.
> 
> Additionally, what makes someone a talent in this biz is that the project makes huge money for the studio. Writing a film score is a complete subjective art form. It doesn't matter in the industry if one is talented or not as a composer. All that matters is you composed for a project that made huge money for the studio and director. If your involvement had actual merit or not, does not matter at all. It only matters that the project was a financial success and you were involved in that. If your score is brilliant but every project you do loses money for the studio, you won't have much of a career for long. So though I can determine if someone is talented or not regardless if the production won awards or made money, the studio only cares if it makes money. So you can be the not the most talented composer, but if your projects are huge successes you will be propelled to the top of the A-list and make enormous fees. It's all about the money not your talent.


Yes, and right now it's looking like the "Squid Game" for many desperate composers. 

This is another reason why I prefer working with professional live theatre. Not only am I part of the creative process from day one, but I'm a recognized part of the creative collective as a whole, and it's not typically about the "bottom line".


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## Drundfunk (Oct 22, 2021)

Well whatever you do take care of yourself. Burning yourself out isn't something which happens from one day to the next, but it's a slow and steady process and you'll most likely not see it coming (there will be many signs, but you'll most likely not see them). Getting out of that hole sucks and it takes a lot of time (and feeling like a useless piece of shit who can't concentrate or get any work done doesn't help at all, especially when you were "the king" for the longest time, because you got a shitton of work done and worked a lot more and a lot faster than anybody else). There is something like "too much" and I hope you'll find the sweespot for a good work-life-balance rather sooner than later.


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## Studio E (Oct 22, 2021)

I really appreciate all the concern for my own well-being as well as my family's, and I am quite aware of how ridiculous this all sounds, but at the same time, I'm just pointing my head at the monitor(s) and doing it. I'm getting as much sleep as I ever do, still squeezing-in some light exercise, and eating a really healthy diet. We have 4 children who are all out in the world now. My wife keeps very busy with work and the gym. We usually get about 90 minutes of together time in the evenings and 45 minutes in the morning. She has known that this was my passion since the day we met, over 16 years ago. Like I said, I appreciate the concern, but some of you seem more startled by my life than I do.

I just wanted to make the post, because if nothing else, it's interesting and probably educational to some. I have worked so much harder, in such worse settings and environments, that to be forced to do what has been a passion for 20 years, hardly seems like torture, it's just very demanding on my time. I've already finished 26 cues for the first film, and I am really happy with a lot of it. It will be some of the best sounding stuff I've ever done, in a style that is certainly newer to me.

I do have a partner/assistant in this as well, though she still learning the ropes, but that has been a huge plus as well. It does my soul good to share this experience, and she is someone that I can at least discuss artistic concepts with. Between that and her boosting my ego constantly, and I really respect her as an artist as well, it has seemed much less like torture doing all of this so far. She has also contributed parts to some of the cues. Small little parts, but transformative parts, that put her in the film as a composer, and that feels great for both of us.

I know that the burnout will come, but we are also well over half through with all the first drafts, and the director loves it, so first draft really just means that we need to revisit all of these cues for midi massaging and mixing. Then I will master all of the cues, line them up in a finally sync'ing project, and deliver.

Everyone is different and has different stopping points. I still remember what it's like to be in the bilge, under a 16-foot diesel generator while it's running, in the Caribbean, when it was 100 degrees and I was probably hung-over to boot, haha. This isn't that. Having a point of reference is a great thing. I've worked in every extremely hot or cold environment, breaking my back to make a living. This isn't that, and my brain knows it.

Some of you are in amazing positions as composers, and I have no idea what hills you had to climb to get there, but I have respect for what you do and the heights you've reached. I'm willing to do this and I have a support system that allows me to do what I need to. These directors aren't tyrants. They are all just young (in their careers at least) directors who are very excited to be making their first feature-length films, and I have been the guy helping them with all their short-form projects, for decades in some cases. It's sheer happenstance. 

As far as pay, I've got a set fee for film-1, and it's considerably more than I've ever made. Film-2 will be back-end money. Not because that's all he offered, but because I have witnessed this guy's talent for years, and he is amazing, he picked a great genre for a first film, and I watched him almost get fucked-over for all the rights to the film by a Hollywood production company who was interested and was going to provide 50k up front, but the director read the fine print and realized they were about to take his film away form him, so he did it on his own, on about 25% of the cash he thought he had, and made it happen anyway, and it looks fantastic. He's the most gifted cinematographer I've ever known. He also wrote a great film, ie, I believe in him and the project. Film-3 is from another 1st-time director, who I've worked for before, and has treated me very well. We have a set rate per minute of music and it is quite fair. Lastly, I don't need the money, nor am I drooling at the extra cash. This is what I love to do, and I have 3 huge opportunities right in front of me. I've worked for 20 years to get here. Now is not the time for me to duck-and-run. Now is the time for rolling up sleeves and elevating the art that they have entrusted me with. 

I seriously do appreciate all the concern and helpful comments. I'll have my wife post my obituary if I don't make it, haha!

Oh, and I have other company in the studio as well as you can see from the picture


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## Jeremy Spencer (Oct 22, 2021)

Studio E said:


> I just wanted to make the post, because if nothing else, it's interesting and probably educational to some


That's cool. If you're content, then that's all that matters. At this point though (for me), I've done 20+ years of those type of gigs.....and I'm now the complete opposite of your situation. If there was a substantial financial incentive, I'd probably consider (at least 2% of the film's budget up front, or at least $10K+). My time worth a lot. Glad your wife is supportive, that's a huge bonus .


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## Bruhelius (Feb 10, 2022)

I like what Michel Legrand said once: “I am not a film music composer. I am a composer who makes music that is later on used in films.” This i basically my philosophy. I am a studio musician and live player, and I record my tracks for other artists and perform. When I write music it’s usually in my spare time and I want to compose what I like. If a director comes along and likes my stuff we can negotiate terms and perhaps work together. I don’t want to do things that will burn me out.


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## aemile (Feb 12, 2022)

One thing is clear, regardless of if it's your day job or not, you are a working, in-demand composer. And as such, you will need to take on the films that will help you grow and turn down the ones whose benefits won't outweigh your burnout. We have the mindset of we have to do everything until "We make it" but if you're in line for 3 indie features? You're definitely a place to start refining what you work on without feeling guilty about it.

I've been working every night and every weekend for 5 years to push my composer career while having a demanding day job. I just finished my first feature which got picked up at a big festival. Feels great to be validated but the reality is I have lost friends, contact with family and a massive amount of experiences. I had given up on being a composer at a young age but decided to do this later in my career and at 40 now I am giving myself 5 more years in hopes I can finally quit my day job.

The biggest shift in being able to sustain this lifestyle was quit drinking, work from home and regardless if I work 16hrs a day, I try to get 7-8hrs of sleep.


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## Studio E (Feb 13, 2022)

aemile said:


> One thing is clear, regardless of if it's your day job or not, you are a working, in-demand composer. And as such, you will need to take on the films that will help you grow and turn down the ones whose benefits won't outweigh your burnout. We have the mindset of we have to do everything until "We make it" but if you're in line for 3 indie features? You're definitely a place to start refining what you work on without feeling guilty about it.
> 
> I've been working every night and every weekend for 5 years to push my composer career while having a demanding day job. I just finished my first feature which got picked up at a big festival. Feels great to be validated but the reality is I have lost friends, contact with family and a massive amount of experiences. I had given up on being a composer at a young age but decided to do this later in my career and at 40 now I am giving myself 5 more years in hopes I can finally quit my day job.
> 
> The biggest shift in being able to sustain this lifestyle was quit drinking, work from home and regardless if I work 16hrs a day, I try to get 7-8hrs of sleep.


Congrats on getting the film picked up. I don't know where any of these three will end up, but I'm fairly confident that each will lead to more opportunities. I am still slogging through it all at the moment, but as I had somewhat predicted, each of their schedules is sliding back a bit, not due to me, but doe to them all being first-time directors and just running into various issues of last minute VFX, labor shortages, and even re-edits. I'm surfing a wave that could roll over me at any time, but I'm still enjoying the thrill of it.


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