# Get the job of an assistant (for a composer)



## Nils Neumann (Sep 15, 2016)

Are there any ways to get a job with a composer (unpaid/paid, no matter what)
and is it worth it? 
I would really appreciate to work with someone who is experienced in the Industry.
I know the basics of orchestration, music theory, mixing&mastering, worked with Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase. And maybe I can learn to make coffee. Is all that valuable?

I would love to hear your thoughts on this topic!


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## Leo Badinella (Sep 15, 2016)

Yes of course there are ways to be an assistant, even unpaid, believe it or not. 

The assistant's job is fairly technical and not always musical, in essence you are there to help the big name composer work faster. But...if you are trying to get a gig as an assistant you are going to want to change your skill description into "I know *all there is to know* about orchestration, music theory, mixing&mastering, work with Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase. And I can *make a mean cup of coffee*." (Of course, this has to be true.)

I am not being facetious.

Working with someone who is successful and is more experienced than you is great and you will learn a lot about everything there is to know about, but you shouldn't expect anyone to want to teach you. You have to be an asset in the studio and he/she has to be certain about that. The way you learn is by watching, asking questions when there is time and then going in and suggesting an improvement over the current workflow, (and only the workflow).

....I will now suggest you pick up the books "Mastery" and then "The 48 Laws Of Power" both by Robert Greene.


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## Prockamanisc (Sep 15, 2016)

Leo Badinella said:


> I can *make a mean cup of coffee*


This is seriously no joke. Many times as an assistant I've thought to myself "I spent ~10 years studying music, and I'd be better at my job right now if I'd spent that time as a waiter, because then I'd be able to remember people's food/drink orders."



Leo Badinella said:


> pick up the books "Mastery" and then "The 48 Laws Of Power" both by Robert Greene


These are awesome books.


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## Fab (Sep 15, 2016)

Prockamanisc said:


> This is seriously no joke. Many times as an assistant I've thought to myself "I spent ~10 years studying music, and I'd be better at my job right now if I'd spent that time as a waiter, because then I'd be able to remember people's food/drink orders."
> 
> 
> These are awesome books.



yeah, and don't forget "The art of seduction"...


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## Rctec (Sep 15, 2016)

I was Stanley Myers' coffee maker and I learned more from that than all the schools I was asked to leave...

Harry Gregson-Williams
John Powell
Henry Jackman
Jim Dooley
Trevor Morris
Ramin Djawadi

And many others have made a superior cup of coffee for me...


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## synergy543 (Sep 15, 2016)




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## givemenoughrope (Sep 15, 2016)

Unless it's one of several specific composers, I'm not really looking to be an assistant...but I bet anything I can make a better espresso than almost anyone in the assistosphere. It's like the one part of all this that I know I can do.


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## Mundano (Sep 15, 2016)

Leo Badinella said:


> ....I will now suggest you pick up the books "Mastery" and then "The 48 Laws Of Power" both by Robert Greene.


...really?...


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## Neifion (Sep 15, 2016)

I can't make a decent cup of coffee, but I make a great cup of tea. Maybe that's why I am where I am?


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## desert (Sep 15, 2016)

Rctec said:


> I was Stanley Myers' coffee maker and I learned more from that than all the schools I was asked to leave...
> 
> Harry Gregson-Williams
> John Powell
> ...



And you must work at Remote Control? Would you like some more coffee?

EDIT: In all seriousness - does reverse psychology work on getting an "internship" position at RC?


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## Nils Neumann (Sep 16, 2016)

Thanks for all the suggestions, I really appreciate your input!


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## rottoy (Sep 20, 2016)

Rctec said:


> I was Stanley Myers' coffee maker and I learned more from that than all the schools I was asked to leave...
> 
> Harry Gregson-Williams
> John Powell
> ...


So you learned how to sample a coffee machine with 24xRR and 5 mic positions?


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## bc3po (Sep 24, 2016)

Nils Neumann said:


> Are there any ways to get a job with a composer (unpaid/paid, no matter what)
> and is it worth it?
> I would really appreciate to work with someone who is experienced in the Industry.
> I know the basics of orchestration, music theory, mixing&mastering, worked with Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase. And maybe I can learn to make coffee. Is all that valuable?
> ...



I learned in one year with Ramin more about film scoring than I did in four years of school. 

There's a lot of grunt work but I actually enjoyed every second of it, being around the studio, listening, watching, and trying to contribute.


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## dgburns (Sep 24, 2016)

Rctec said:


> I was Stanley Myers' coffee maker and I learned more from that than all the schools I was asked to leave...
> 
> Harry Gregson-Williams
> John Powell
> ...



I stopped drinking coffee at work a long time back. Especially after noon. But I AM curious, how do you prefer coffee?? Me, I am finding I am moving more towards a flat white these days, and liking darker beans for some reason....
... (and for some reason have developed a dependancy on diet coke)

I guess I'll never be a great composer if that keeps up


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## AlexRuger (Sep 24, 2016)

I've done quite a bit of assistant work over the years so I hope I can give you some relevant info.

Firstly, please realize that an assistant position does _not necessarily _equal the first step on the ladder to being an in-demand composer (your post didn't give me this impression--I'm just saying that if you _do _think this way, then definitely stop it as soon as possible).

Though some composers are happy to act as a mentor for their assistants, absolutely _do not expect it. _First and foremost, you'll be an employee with specific tasks. If you go about it right, you can learn a lot, but this industry is not a meritocracy: your success depends on your contacts and your credits, as well as your abilities. You can build credits with an assistantship, but I can honestly say that outside of one or maybe two jobs, my work as an assistant has had little _direct_ effect on the construction of my own career as a composer. It's certainly had a lot of indirect effects--I've met other composers at my level who have had to drop out of their own gigs and have referred me (and vice versa), and like I said I've learned quite a bit. But it's rare for a composer to truly put in time and effort into mentoring or helping build their assistant's own career. 

rctec is definitely an exception, but even then, most of those guys he named came up in a time when home studios were less common, and when not every musician in the world wanted to be a film composer. It was a different industry. That isn't to say it doesn't still happen--I've been extremely fortunate in finding a mentor not once but twice--but it's just far more rare due to the extreme competition and saturation.

In fact, assistants are only getting more and more specialized, and some specializations are becoming bonafide career paths in their own right. 

For example, I nearly filled in for Harry Gregson-Williams' tech earlier this year--long story short, they ended up not needing me--but I spent a few days there learning the studio in case I had to fill in at the last minute. Harry and I were talking, and during the conversation he said, "It sounds like you're more of a composer than a tech." Up to that point, I hadn't seen the two as possibly being decoupled--I've always thought that to be a composer nowadays, you need to be your own tech, and that's the most useful skill that I have that can help composers, so that's what I've always done as an assistant, and that's the end of that. But there are a handful of highly specialized guys out here that make their living solely as techs, and _aren't trying to be composers themselves. _They are techs, end of story. I've noticed a slow progression towards that way of working--a more defined specialization between team members, with the point being that they aspire to be in that position and don't just see it as a stepping stone towards something else.

(side-note: Harry is definitely one of those people who tries to help out his assistants and acts as a kind of a mentor. He's too humble and self-deprecatingly English to admit that outright, but from the little time I spent with him, it was obvious he has a very kind heart, an iron work-ethic, and truly desires to make every score his best. A very inspiring man, indeed).

So my point here is that you should focus on what you _really _want out of your career, what you're _really _good at, and hone in. What you've done begets more of the same, and changing directions can be difficult once your paycheck becomes accustomed to depending on it (unfortunately, that's how many of the orchestrators I know "fell into" that position. It starts with "I can orchestrate" to, three years later, "I'm an orchestrator"). So be careful with simply saying, "I know this" or "I know that" without considering where it might lead you.

If you want to be your own composer one day and want to use an assistantship to learn the ropes and get better, then sure--play up the "jack of all trades" thing. That's what I've done and it's worked out okay so far (though like I said, my specific experience has leaned a bit more on the tech side of things). If you want to be more of an additional music composer for a while, downplay the tech thing--someone else will handle that. If you like the tech stuff, downplay the "I'm a composer" part and focus on the "I know this, and this, and this, and I'm a good engineer, etc..."

So, long story short, unless it specifically works towards your goals, don't say, "I can do these things!" Say, "I _want _to do those things." Even though you're just starting out (forgive me if I'm wrong--your post makes it sound like it), take as much command of your career path as you can muster. 

*All that said:* be open to cool possibilities. You don't know where they'll lead. A year ago I had no idea game audio would become such a huge force in my life, but an opportunity came along, it sounded cool, so I went with it, and it's forever altered the direction of my career in a good way. I've also tried other seemingly-cool opportunities and found that I didn't like where they led. In that case, you have to have the courage to close that door, and to have faith in yourself that you'll find the next gig--without burning a bridge in the process.

So, it's a long game of learning what kind of life you want, what kind of things you can actually standing doing day-after-day in the heat of deadlines, as opposed to just thinking they sound nice or having fun with them in the comfort of your own time. Opening doors, closing others, etc. Your best friend in this business (or, rather, in life) is an open mind and a willingness to always be learning.

PS don't just _offer_ to work unpaid. If that option presents itself and you find the pros to outweigh the cons, then sure, go for it. But saying it outright is just shooting yourself in the foot and devalues the work--and not to mention the detrimental effect it has on those who can't afford to work for free.

PPS learn Digital Performer, too. There's still a sizable minority that uses it and is _definitely _not switching any time soon, so being prepared is always good.


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## ghostnote (Sep 24, 2016)

dgburns said:


> Especially after noon.



Never say never to a coffee late at night mr burns


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## dgburns (Sep 24, 2016)

@Michael Chrostek , well played Micheal !
@AlexRuger , Impossible to drink coffee AND learn DP, that's just not civilised. No wonder people are always looking for good techs/baristas


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## Nils Neumann (Sep 25, 2016)

AlexRuger said:


> I've done quite a bit of assistant work over the years so I hope I can give you some relevant info.
> 
> Firstly, please realize that an assistant position does _not necessarily _equal the first step on the ladder to being an in-demand composer (your post didn't give me this impression--I'm just saying that if you _do _think this way, then definitely stop it as soon as possible).
> 
> ...



Thank you very very much for those insights and tipps!
Yes, I'm starting out and I search for my way into the industry. Until now my dream is to compose and pay my bills with it, but this is a long way to go


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## AlexRuger (Sep 25, 2016)

Awesome, glad to be of some help. Good luck!


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## AR (Sep 25, 2016)

Hey, I share with you some insights of what my assistants do right now. One, who's in here for about 6 months I told him few months ago: Buy Albion One and let me hear a composition that sounds so realistic that I will not hear a difference compared to a real orchestra recording. 
Another assistant who's working for me the last three years works now on some key scenes on movies. Sometimes he delivers own ideas, sometimes I give him a task, sometimes he works directly with the director via Skype. He also takes the lead job on short movies. And I help out with problems.


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## Smikes77 (Sep 25, 2016)

Rctec said:


> I was Stanley Myers' coffee maker and I learned more from that than all the schools I was asked to leave...
> 
> Harry Gregson-Williams
> John Powell
> ...



Jeez...what a name dropper...makes me sick...


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