# Compl*e*mentary DAW for Logic?



## KallumS (Jan 29, 2019)

I'm looking for a second DAW to go with Logic to keep things fresh for me. The DAW must support AU plugins, any recommendations would be appreciated.

I love Logic but sometimes find it tiring to use the same DAW for months on end. Looking for something similar to Logic that I can switch to for a change of scenery. Maybe with a few different features to patch up Logic's weaknesses.

Having researched a few options, it looks like my main choices are Digital Performer, Studio One and Ableton. I only really do orchestral tracks and composing to picture, however if the DAW doesn't support video that's no big drama as I can use Logic.

Studio One is on rent-to-own at Splice and I hear good things, however Digital Performer 10 is on the horizon...?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 29, 2019)

I have used both Logic and Cubase for years, I love them both. Very different DAW's, but I find them both inspiring in their own right. Why do you need AU support?


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## jonathanwright (Jan 29, 2019)

It might worth downloading the Studio One demo. 

Its workflow very easy to learn (if you don't want to spend too much time trying to learn a completely different way of doing things) and has plenty of interesting features that other DAW's don't have, or aren't as slickly implemented.

Macros in particular are excellent, including the ability to add inserts with key commands.

It doesn't have articulation maps yet though. Or inbuilt notation.


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## KallumS (Jan 29, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I have used both Logic and Cubase for years, I love them both. Very different DAW's, but I find them both inspiring in their own right. Why do you need AU support?



All of my plugins are currently AUs. Also I plan on using Sinevibes plugins which are only available in AU format.



jonathanwright said:


> It might worth downloading the Studio One demo.
> 
> Its workflow very easy to learn (if you don't want to spend too much time trying to learn a completely different way of doing things) and has plenty of interesting features that other DAW's don't have, or aren't as slickly implemented.
> 
> ...



I'm seriously considering it after reading up on it.

Not too fussed about articulation maps or notation as I'll still be using Logic for those.

Best of all Studio One is available on a Splice rent to own plan!


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## jbuhler (Jan 29, 2019)

I go back and forth between Logic and Studio One. I find Studio One does not like a large number of midi tracks because of the way it handles VIs. It can handle a larger number of tracks; it just gets hard to find your way around. The midi editing is also not my favorite, as the zoom keeps resetting even when I supposedly save it (and the default zoom shifts from absurdly large to tiny); and the automation tracks also reset arbitrarily from the ones I set up. There may be a way to fix that through settings but the manual is not very helpful (and you have to go out if your way to get access to a version not built into the program). On the positive side the arranger and sketchpad are both awesome and well suited to my workflow. It is also far more stable than Logic is for me at the point. (The only recurring crash issues I’ve had with Studio One is crashing on close which is irritating but that’s the place you want it to crash if it’s going to crash. Logic by contrast has been crashing regularly ever since I moved to 10.4.2 and it’s gotten worse, now several times a day, since I “upgraded” to Mojave.)


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 29, 2019)

I think a good alternative to Logic would be something that brings something new to the table...I consider Logic, Cubase, DP and StudioOne to essentially be the same thing with only minor differences as to workflow. They each have some pros and cons but ultimately are primarily linear DAW programs.

I'd look into ableton Live, or BitWig or FL Studio, or something that brings a completely different pattern oriented approach or something different that truly complements LogicPro. That's just me.


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## DS_Joost (Jan 29, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> I think a good alternative to Logic would be something that brings something new to the table...I consider Logic, Cubase, DP and StudioOne to essentially be the same thing with only minor differences as to workflow. They each have some pros and cons but ultimately are primarily linear DAW programs.
> 
> I'd look into ableton Live, or BitWig or FL Studio, or something that brings a completely different pattern oriented approach or something different that truly complements LogicPro. That's just me.



Indeed. I use a combination of Studio One and Reason, and indeed I sometimes open up Reason just because it's a completely different look and workflow! Sometimes, changing up your standard way of working creates the most creative ideas.

That, and Reason is just the ultimate playground when it comes to synth design! It's really awesome, and if I can summarize the program in one word, it's fun!


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## Alex Fraser (Jan 29, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> I think a good alternative to Logic would be something that brings something new to the table...I consider Logic, Cubase, DP and StudioOne to essentially be the same thing with only minor differences as to workflow. They each have some pros and cons but ultimately are primarily linear DAW programs.
> 
> I'd look into ableton Live, or BitWig or FL Studio, or something that brings a completely different pattern oriented approach or something different that truly complements LogicPro. That's just me.


Agree with this.
Also, be careful! IMO, learning a new DAW might turn out to be a huge time sink and distraction. You might end up endlessly comparing the two instead of moving forward. Just my 2c.


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## Duncan Krummel (Jan 29, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> Logic by contrast has been crashing regularly ever since I moved to 10.4.2 and it’s gotten worse, now several times a day, since I “upgraded” to Mojave.)



Not to digress too much from the original post, but it's worth mentioning that Logic is currently version 10.4.4. The update didn't register for me in the App Store (along with several other program updates), and it required me to completely re-download the logic package manually. This took a short while, but it has completely fixed all random crashes for me since upgrading to Mojave, including the constant crashing when changing settings/adding patches during playback. Just a general FYI, as I only noticed the update way after the fact.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Jan 29, 2019)

Not AU compatible, but if you're serious about music in a professional capacity it's always good to know how to use Pro Tools!


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## jbuhler (Jan 29, 2019)

Duncan Krummel said:


> Not to digress too much from the original post, but it's worth mentioning that Logic is currently version 10.4.4. The update didn't register for me in the App Store (along with several other program updates), and it required me to completely re-download the logic package manually. This took a short while, but it has completely fixed all random crashes for me since upgrading to Mojave, including the constant crashing when changing settings/adding patches during playback. Just a general FYI, as I only noticed the update way after the fact.


Yes, I’m on 10.4.4. But I’ve been having instability issues since 10.4.2.


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## Jack Weaver (Jan 29, 2019)

FYI, Bitwig is not AU compatible - yet.
I believe Live can use AU. 

.


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## dflood (Jan 29, 2019)

What, no Reaper fans here? I always figured I would give that a shot if Apple screws up or gives up on Logic.


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## wilifordmusic (Jan 29, 2019)

Reaper is an interesting beast. Many things are much easier and more efficient. 
The problem for me is the graphics. Some of the themes and fonts used are hard for my old eyes on Retina 5K. 
Some of the tempo functions are different as well but still powerful. If you can bend your brain around how it works it really is a powerhouse. I tried it and deleted it a half dozen times because I wasn't smart enough to understand it. Then one day, all became clear. 
It is definitely a professional app. It is my Plan "B" when I feel like the computer is getting in my way.


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## pderbidge (Jan 29, 2019)

dflood said:


> What, no Reaper fans here? I always figured I would give that a shot if Apple screws up or gives up on Logic.


Reaper is awesome, and although I am a big fan of Reaper I am not familiar enough with Logic to make a recommendation as to whether it would be a compliment or not. DAW's are like Beds, it's personal. Someone says it's super smooth and like sleeping on a cloud, while someone else (probably much lighter and petite) will say it's too hard. So without the ability to make a qualified recommendation I would at least agree with Pro-Tools as a decent second choice since it is used in countless studios and will help the OP familiarize himself in case he ever works with mixing and mastering engineers. I say this, while somewhat clinching my fists as I wish Protools wasn't still the big player it is since there are so many other great DAW's worthy of being recognized as professional DAWS (ahem... Reaper) but still it is a logical choice for that reason alone. I also like the recommendation of maybe trying something that gives the OP a different approach to his music like Bitwig and Ableton live. Sometimes that can help spark creativity.


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## KallumS (Jan 30, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> I'd look into ableton Live, or BitWig or FL Studio, or something that brings a completely different pattern oriented approach or something different that truly complements LogicPro. That's just me.



That's a really good point. At the end of the day I'm not looking for a replacement to Logic, I'm looking for a different way of thinking to hopefully inspire some different results. I downloaded the demo for Studio One, first impressions are really strong but it is very similar to Logic in a lot of ways. Not necessarily a different way of thinking, just a different way of working.

I've used Live for years so know it inside out. Thinking about it, Live is probably the polar opposite to Logic in a lot of respects. Might make for a nice contrast.

I didn't know that it could handle AUs!



Jeremy Gillam said:


> Not AU compatible, but if you're serious about music in a professional capacity it's always good to know how to use Pro Tools!



Agreed, learning Pro Tools is on my list of things I need to do.




Jack Weaver said:


> FYI, Bitwig is not AU compatible - yet.
> I believe Live can use AU.
> 
> .



I've got my eye on Bitwig. I tried it in version 1, pretty good but didn't have everything I needed. The new update with The Grid looks exciting though.


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## LinusW (Jan 30, 2019)

KallumS said:


> I'm looking for a second DAW to go with Logic to keep things fresh for me. The DAW must support AU plugins


I would say Reason if VST was an option, but as you specifically said AU plugins I would go with Ableton Live. Absolutely.


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## dcoscina (Jan 30, 2019)

KallumS said:


> I'm looking for a second DAW to go with Logic to keep things fresh for me. The DAW must support AU plugins, any recommendations would be appreciated.
> 
> I love Logic but sometimes find it tiring to use the same DAW for months on end. Looking for something similar to Logic that I can switch to for a change of scenery. Maybe with a few different features to patch up Logic's weaknesses.
> 
> ...


I also endorse Ableton. It’s a definitely different way of handling composing and has a really powerful means to manipulate audio. Also, from what I know, it was originally made for Mac OS so it should work well on that platform.


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## samphony (Jan 30, 2019)

Studio One and/or Ableton Live!


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## kitekrazy (Jan 30, 2019)

Interesting. I've seen videos of former Live users on Mac switching to Logic once they got more involved in VIs. I think that may also be an economical decision. Reason in it's proprietary state is the most stable DAW out there. FL Studio is a lifetime license and probably the best support out there. Other than Live, FL, and Reason, the other DAWs would be more of a lateral move. The danger with Reaper is some got really hooked and never went back. It's also the most affordable of all the DAWs listed.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 30, 2019)

If you use VEPro to host your AU plugins, you can use any DAW.


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## Geoff Grace (Jan 30, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> If you use VEPro to host your AU plugins, you can use any DAW.


Good point.

And Blue Cat's PatchWork can host VST, VST3, Audio Unit plug-ins in any DAW.

I'll add that there will be a number of Ableton Live-like features incorporated into the upcoming release of DP 10. Worth a look.

I'll also second that Pro Tools is an important DAW for any professional musician to become familiar with. At the very least, I recommend picking up the free Pro Tools First.

Reason 10 would greatly expand your VIs and add a nice complement of effects plugins. Furthermore, it can slave and route them into Logic Pro X via ReWire. Worth considering as well.

Best,

Geoff


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## resonate (Jan 30, 2019)

+1 for Pro Tools.


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## Saxer (Jan 30, 2019)

For mixing and delivering: ProTools
For creating loop based stuff and audio mangeling: Ableton Live
For compatibility: Cubase


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## paularthur (Jan 30, 2019)

I use Pro Tools as alternate..


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 30, 2019)

Compl*e*mentary means it enhances or adds to.

Compl*i*ment means to praise.

Huff!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 30, 2019)

Sorry, I'm a magazine editor by trade, and this is fingernails on a chalkboard.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 30, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Compl*e*mentary means it enhances or adds to.
> 
> Compl*i*ment means to praise.
> 
> Huff!



Maybe he wants a DAW that will talk to him while composing...telling him how awesome he is! I'd buy that!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 30, 2019)

I have several mirrors in my room for that purpose, Wolfie.


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## brenneisen (Jan 30, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Compl*i*ment means to praise.



so he wants Garage Band

like "If you like me you have to check my older brother"


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## Vik (Jan 30, 2019)

Cubase seems to be the popular DAW here, so if this thread gets long enough, you'll probably get a lot of Cubase recommendations.
https://vi-control.net/community/th...program-for-work-with-sample-libraries.73407/


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## 5Lives (Jan 31, 2019)

I see no reason to buy Cubase if you have Logic. However, something like Ableton will spark inspiration in a new direction potentially due to how different the workflow is, especially if you get a Push. Same goes for something like Maschine.

Pro Tools is also a good complement as it is a mixing powerhouse and an industry standard that is helpful to be familiar with.


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 31, 2019)

Another way to go would be to get a product that can be optionally subhosted inside of Logic or used together with it. For example, Maschine, Geist, MPC and other groove oriented products... or if you're not into that, maybe RapidComposer or Synfire, etc... These are all sophisticated programs, not really DAW's per say, but on their own stand up as standalone products....or in many cases can be used as plugins inside of a DAW


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jan 31, 2019)

Reaper, based on everything I know about the options. It's sufficiently different to Logic to be worth learning as an addition tool, as opposed to Cubase, Protools etc. I'm going to use Reaper on a gig this Summer alongside a guy who knows it inside-out. There's so much it can do from a workflow perspective that makes it perfect for modular music, like videogame stuff, things where you want to try out lots of different arrangements, etc. Exporting regions and stems etc is ridiculously easy and quick compared to every other option too.


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## Dewdman42 (Jan 31, 2019)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> There's so much it can do from a workflow perspective that makes it perfect for modular music, like videogame stuff, things where you want to try out lots of different arrangements, etc.



Can you please elaborate on this?


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jan 31, 2019)

Dewdman42 said:


> Can you please elaborate on this?



Ask me again in 6 months 

Basically, a load of the boring work I'm doing at the moment on Narcos, he reckons I could save hours if it was done in Reaper. Stuff to do with arrangements-within-arrangements and macros which take a lot of the grunt work away from managing and exporting projects with any degree of complexity.


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## InLight-Tone (Jan 31, 2019)

Bee


Alex Fraser said:


> Agree with this.
> Also, be careful! IMO, learning a new DAW might turn out to be a huge time sink and distraction. You might end up endlessly comparing the two instead of moving forward. Just my 2c.


Been there done that and wasted nearly half a year doing so. Rooted back in Cubase. Quidado!!!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 31, 2019)

hahaha

Thanks KallumS.


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## HeliaVox (Jan 31, 2019)

Whe I go to look at another DAW, I want it to do things Logic can't. So I rotate on a regular basis and use Waveform 9 - soon to be 10 (it used to be called Tracktion). I also love using Bitwig. I never liked Live, but something about Bitwig just works for me. If you really want to go off the deep end, I also dabble around with M, by Cycling '74. I used it back in the day on my Amiga, and it is just as much fun today as it was 25+ years ago.


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## KallumS (Feb 1, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> If you use VEPro to host your AU plugins, you can use any DAW.



That's awesome, I had no idea you could do that.



Dewdman42 said:


> Another way to go would be to get a product that can be optionally subhosted inside of Logic or used together with it. For example, Maschine, Geist, MPC and other groove oriented products... or if you're not into that, maybe RapidComposer or Synfire, etc... These are all sophisticated programs, not really DAW's per say, but on their own stand up as standalone products....or in many cases can be used as plugins inside of a DAW



You're thinking a lot more outside of the box then I was, great idea to switch things up using a program that creates music differently to DAWs. I did own Orb Composer, but I didn't like feeling like it wasn't me making the songs. It looks like RapidComposer is a similar proposition but allows more control.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> hahaha
> 
> Thanks KallumS.


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## Dewdman42 (Feb 1, 2019)

Rapid composer won’t make songs for you at all it will just provide a zillion ways to make patterns that you easily morph into new things using chords and scales. I’d say it’s useless to anyone that doesn’t understand theory pretty well, but it does provide endless experimentation


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## losernam3 (Feb 19, 2020)

I sell orb composer pro s 1.5 if anybody is interested.

here’s my VI FS list: *Hexachords, Softube, UVI, Sonible, Kush Audio, Sly-Fi & Slate Digital*


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## nglez (Feb 19, 2020)

Ableton Live


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## gdoubleyou (Feb 21, 2020)

Now that Reason can be used as a plug, inside Logic, I'm going to give it a second look.


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## Dewdman42 (Feb 21, 2020)

Hmm interesting. Only $99 for the lite version. what kind of stuff could be done with that, which couldn't be done using Logic itself?


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## InLight-Tone (Feb 21, 2020)

I agree with many of the former replies, Ableton Live for it's completely different paradigm and workflow, plus you can immerse yourself into the world of Max4Live midi devices for coming up with ideas. Plenty of time to waste there for sure. I find having a Push is almost essential for the maximum fun and productivity though...


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## mat1 (Feb 22, 2020)

Has to be Live. There are so many things in Live you just can't do in Logic without seriously convoluted workarounds. The whole thing feels like an instrument and the workflow is great for sound and groove design.


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## DS_Joost (Feb 22, 2020)

I strongly recommend Reason. It's unique, extremely usable, and endlessly inspiring. It just received a new update adding Midi Out to the plugin which makes the plugin a game changer: you can now use Reason's LFOs, arpeggios and other devices and route the modulation via CV to CC to modulate every plugin in your arsenal, essentially adding modular capabilities to every DAW that previously didn't have it or where it was convoluted (looking at you, Cubase!).


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## Geoff Grace (Feb 22, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> I strongly recommend Reason. It's unique, extremely usable, and endlessly inspiring. It just received a new update adding Midi Out to the plugin which makes the plugin a game changer: you can now use Reason's LFOs, arpeggios and other devices and route the modulation via CV to CC to modulate every plugin in your arsenal, essentially adding modular capabilities to every DAW that previously didn't have it or where it was convoluted (looking at you, Cubase!).


Actually, it's _almost_ every DAW. There's no AAX version, and Rewire has been dropped, so Pro Tools users are now left out of the party.

I realize that's moot for the purposes of this thread, but it's worth noting for any Pro Tools users who are here. 

Best,

Geoff


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## DS_Joost (Feb 22, 2020)

Geoff Grace said:


> Actually, it's _almost_ every DAW. There's no AAX version, and Rewire has been dropped, so Pro Tools users are now left out of the party.
> 
> I realize that's moot for the purposes of this thread, but it's worth noting for any Pro Tools users who are here.
> 
> ...



There is, however, an AAX version coming. Don't know whether you already knew that?


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## Geoff Grace (Feb 22, 2020)

DS_Joost said:


> There is, however, an AAX version coming. Don't know whether you already knew that?


I didn't know that. That's great to hear! The last I heard, it was only under consideration. 

Do they have an ETA?

Best,

Geoff


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