# How much training?



## Scott Cairns (Nov 2, 2004)

Hi all, as Im mostly self-taught this question bugs me a lot. I know its kind of open ended, but I wonder how much training the average pro composer needs to have?

I would assume you need at least some grounding in the following;

Reading music
General Theory
Composition
Harmony
Orchestration


But I wonder just how much? Some of these things Im sure are picked up over a lifetime. What do you guys think? Are there obvious things I've missed?

I would to hear everyone's thoughts on this.


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## lux (Nov 2, 2004)

hmmm...not a pro at all, but my preferences go to harmony and orchestration, followed by general theory. The reading abilities are imho multipliers of those trainings because they disclose you a lot of more studying and sharing opportunities. i dont believe too much in composition teached, not as most classical books are.

my guess is that the more training I can have, the easiest will do to play my favourite things.

Luca


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## TheoKrueger (Nov 2, 2004)

( Not a pro either )

I think learning theory can expand your horizons for experimentation even though it's not nescesary to make a masterpiece ( since you can learn everything in a lifetime as you said ). Reading must be great, beeing able to play a song in your head by just looking at it. 

I had always thought that training is not nescesary , but this year at school they taught us the basics of harmony ( Jazz and Classical ) . We learnt the use of 7nth,9nth chords etc , chord substitutions plus some SATB stuff which prove -a little bit- useful . I never went "by the book" at harmony , but now that i know that a few things exist while before i didn't , it's easier to use them and experiment  . The other thing is that in harmony , most of the lessons were just a written expression of what i've been doind self-taught all this time ( No consecutive fifths, etc )

There are many pro's that have no training or very little... and most of them hire other's to do the "dirty work" anyway > When they have a deadline of a month for example, they'll do the themes, but the orchestrator-s will do the score, etc . ( Hans Zimmer for example , no training he says )

If you have cash and you are supported by your company , you can play three notes on the piano and tell the orchestrator : That's the main theme


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## Niah (Nov 3, 2004)

I don't have musical education and to be honest I'm relatively new to music.

This raises important questions and I think it really depends on each person.

I know a thing or too about reading music from 6th grade but that hasn't been any useful for me since I work with midi all the time. I don't like to study scores or other pieces but sometimes there is something that intrigued me so I basically search the net and find the midi file. 

I think with today's music technology you can learn new things everyday, I've never imagined how an orchestra worked but with an virtual orchestra at my fingertips I can learn the basics as well as creating something new. Also today's sequencer have a lot of music theory like chords that you can apply in midi and experiment from there, or even turn your midi file into music notation...




> I never went "by the book" at harmony , but now that i know that a few things exist while before i didn't , it's easier to use them and experiment



I agree with that, but then again it depends on each individual.

Music is a life learning experience and the more you learn by yourself (even learning from others) the more creative and original you will be rather than just sounding like everyone else that makes music by the book.[/quote]


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## Buckles (Nov 3, 2004)

Its true, alot of the bigger composers get their crony orchestrators to do all the work...but personally I dont want to be doing that, as it doesnt seem like the credit should be yours. 

Orchestration and composition are definately picked up over a lifetime. There are soo many ways to properly orchestrate music, and finding a way which will best project your ideas is really hard...and the same with composition.

But you should have a firm grip on the basics, as you said...harmony, theory etc. Harmony is also part something you pick up... and usually its just by listening to music, when you identify with what parts sound correct and which parts dont flow properly in cadences etc...

I reckon the best way to gain tons of knowledge on how to do things properly is to do tons of score study. Its like a composer's version of practicing an instrument. Just go to yur local library, find the score for a piece you may or may not know, get a recording of it, and study how the notes create the piece. 

Think of John Williams...he would know Stravinsky, Holst, Mahler...you name it...like the back of his hand. 



-s


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## Frederick Russ (Nov 3, 2004)

John Williams also conducts the Boston Pops. When I consider how qualified an individual would have to be to do that and write comparable scores to some of the masters' works its humbling indeed. His reading and interpretation skills would have to be incredible, and based on his compositions his understanding of harmony, keys, polytonality and counterpoint would have to be incredible as well. 

I love hearing how midi-mockup composers also do their hand at conducting and arranging live performances, like Andy B for instance. I think the more we understand the intricacies of the real-deal performing the articulations we have as samples on our hard drives, it could really help us in creating more convincing mockups. Just my opinion though.


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