# Obsessing about MIDI jitter and latency



## rupect (Apr 9, 2020)

Hi! I've been using these strange times to reconfigure the MIDI ins and outs of my studio. 

Decided to chase down all MIDI jitter and latency, because why not. If it can be avoided, I'm not looking to start a thread that discusses whether sub millisecond timing inaccuracies are audible or not, but rather more interested in best practices and equipment to reduce latency and jitter in and out of Logic. 

Is a "GM5 inside" class compliant USB 3 interface like the ESI M4U eX the current best timing MIDI interfaces with Logic? 

Or would I be better off with one of:
- Edirol UM880 running generic mode
- old eMagic interface with Unitor family driver
- multiple Roland UM-ONE mk2 into a USB 3 hub 
- multiple Roland UM-ONE mk2 into a Thunderbolt 3 hub
- multiple Roland UM-ONE mk2 into a USB 2 hub
- something else? 

I've got an Expert Sleepers USAMO for MIDI out timing, and I'm trying to figure the best way to interface with a Linnstrument, OB6, Prophet 6 and Buchla Easel. Not 100%, but at the moment I've ruled out MOTU because of issues I read about SysEx mangling, and ruled out anything by iConnectivity for a reason I can't remember, and ruled out Bome Box because I don't want to buy 3 of them to use MIDI 5-pin, and because I don't trust using them all on USB MIDI to the Bome and then ethernet to the computer without something getting weird. 

Thanks!


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 9, 2020)

See this thread: 









Free software measures MIDI latency and jitter. - Page 12 - Gearspace.com


Quote: Originally Posted by Jauqq ➡️ Good spot. Logic X normal MIDI tracks wasn't sending timestamps with the first versions of X. Just checked Logic X 10.4.1 and MIDI monitor shows the timestamps in the left column. I'll have to check how it compares to the timing from the external instrument...



www.gearslutz.com





The Edirol UM880 is highly regarded as being very low jitter.


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## rupect (Apr 9, 2020)

Ya, love that thread. I'm hoping someone can tell me the GM5 USB 3 interfaces are every bit as good or better, so I can be more future proof. You're right though, that's the most exhaustive testing I could find, and it points to the UM880.


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## Kent (Apr 9, 2020)

re: iConnectivity, if you had ruled them out for having a buggy and opaque firmware, they've got a new one as of a little over a year ago. I am very happy with how it is currently in that regard.


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## rupect (Apr 9, 2020)

The thread @Dewdman42 referenced above was why I ruled out the Mio - the extensive testing done there by the OP led to him saying about the Mio10: "Initial tests were promising, but when I started to do multi-port testing, I found that there was a very slight delay between the first and last ports, but that there were also push/ pull cycles on some of those ports. I ended up returning the unit i'd bought." 

Not sure if that applies to the MioXL as well, or rtpMIDI over ethernet...


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 9, 2020)

I have considered products from iConnectivity to replace midi cables running all over my studio, but based on that and various other reports, I have decided to remain old school for now.


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## rupect (Apr 9, 2020)

BomeBox is another option for ethernet MIDI, but that requires a separate box for each synth, or a single box and trusting USB MIDI and a separate USB hub to play nice, which I don't currently do. It seems the path to more accurate timing for my needs comes with more MIDI cables not less, as hard as that is for me to believe.


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## rupect (Apr 9, 2020)

Looking more at the BomeBox - it appears you can connect class-compliant MIDI interfaces to it, so there is a way to avoid USB and still use just one BomeBox and multiple MIDI 5-pin connections. 

It runs Linux inside to do all the routing and switching that you can assign via a web portal with the Bome acting as a WiFi hotspot, and connects to the computer via ethernet. Totally not like anything else out there, and at the bleeding edge, but... am I crazy for feeling like I still would trust the RISCs and whatever else is in the UM-880 more to not jitter my MIDI as much as a general purpose OS like Linux? I don't really know much about it all outside of what I've read in the last few days of googling, but I think I'll just go USAMO and UM-550 and try to never think of it again.


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## rupect (Apr 10, 2020)

kmaster said:


> re: iConnectivity, if you had ruled them out for having a buggy and opaque firmware, they've got a new one as of a little over a year ago. I am very happy with how it is currently in that regard.



Thinking about this further, the Mio tests there were USB. My googling leads me to believe no one has posted tests of the limits of the iConnectivity stuff using rtpMIDI and a non-USB ethernet connection. I'm tempted to try a MioXM with cat8 cable and a thunderbolt 3 adapter and see where it gets me, but on the other hand I could just buy a um-550 and get back to writing. Hmm...


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 10, 2020)

I will look forward to hearing the results of that. The UM-550 is awesome, but warning, the drivers may hit end of life soon.


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## rupect (Apr 10, 2020)

The thread linked above has test results that are crazy good for output timing using a um-880 in generic mode with no drivers. Apparently it turns class compliant (or at least something that speaks very well with coreMIDI without a driver) when you hardware switch the interface into generic mode!


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 10, 2020)

Oh I did not realize it worked with class compliant generic drivers...and particularly with the same performance. What about MTS in that mode? What features end up missing that way? Probably some routing stuff I would guess. But still.... that is good too know.

The MOTU stuff is also very close to the UM performance...with much more longevity on the native drivers of course


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 10, 2020)

The iConnectivity stuff is great, never mind that their software was hard to figure out (I haven't kept up with the latest versions). They used to be a writing client of mine, and among many other things I wrote several of their product manuals.

If you want to test MIDI timing - and if you care (I don't with a passion) - then stick a mic on your fingers while you're playing a repeated note over MIDI, then look at the audio vs. MIDI tracks in your DAW. You can also stick one mic on your fingers and another one close-miking a speaker.

I did that when I was at Recording magazine and MOTU first invented MIDI jitter marketing in the '90s.

The spec is real, but then so are the gravitational waves you create by waving your hand.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 10, 2020)

By the way, there are a whole lot of variables with MIDI.

The first one is the keyboard you're using. Is it consistent? Where in its travel does it send the Note-on and -off commands?

Is what you're triggering consistent? Round-robin samples aren't likely to be, and sounds with anything other than sharp transient attacks doesn't matter.

And in fact the situations where it could potentially make the slightest bit of difference are dwarfed by real life.

Also by the way, VE Pro's MIDI is 100% sample-accurate.


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