# Any recommendations for a piano vst?



## gohrev (May 19, 2021)

I am leaning towards the piano from Cinematic Studios, but the Spitfire Grand Piano looks pretty tempting, too.

Edit: More info as kindly suggested by @doctoremmet (thanks!)


Must be suitable for standalone or very small ensemble pieces
Should work in Kontakt Player (sadly.. I always buy another library before I buy Kontakt full)
Price range up to $100


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

There are many many many very good piano threads on this forum. Have you tried the search function?


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

gohrev said:


> I am leaning towards the piano from Cinematic Studios, but the Spitfire Grand Piano looks pretty tempting, too.


The Spitfire Grand is mainly geared towards “dressed” use in an orchestral setting. As a standalone piano for exposed work I do not recommend it.

Also, are you looking for a dedicated VST? So no (full) Kontakt? Would Kontakt Player be ok? If you provide more pinpointed information about requirements and prospected use cases, you’ll receive way more useful feedback


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

This is a pretty cool thread:






Piano Libraries, we have loves, favourites, unloved, but which one is your go to piano library?


EDIT: I've added below this original post, a list of all the pianos mentioned in this thread, many thanks for all the comments and feedback, it's fascinating and very much appreciated! ORIGINAL: It's fascinating listening to and reading about different piano libraries here, I love how some folk...




vi-control.net


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

They are slightly older by now, but still very good imho, for instance the TVBO / 7CG, White Grand mk II, Rain Piano by Sampletekk are currently on sale. Thread here:






Sampletekk pianos recommendations during sale?


Hi I just saw an ad for sampletekk 80% sale. Are there pianos any good? I currently have the pianos from NI KU, and I just purchased Ascend during BF. I am looking for more upright and noticed they have a few, but I may purchase some grands too if they are so cheap. Im somewhat interested in the...




vi-control.net


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

Looking for advice - Grand Piano Sample Library - General Purpose - Versatile Applications - Yow!


Halló :) I hope that everyone has been doing well and keeping their spirits up over the last months! A question here for piano based composers who use one piano a lot of the time. Not only piano solo but also in dense mixes. I am indeed in search of one general purpose grand piano. 7...




vi-control.net


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

In case you’d eventually lean towards the excellent Xperimenta Project Due, I happened to just find out that when you put their Xperimenta Preparato in your cart for $59.99 over at Audio Plugin Deals, they offer Due for an additional $49.99 - which is $110 for both libraries / strikes me as a deal. But anyway, I may have spammed this thread way too much already. Good luck, and I’ll let others chime in here.

Of course, every half decent composer needs @Flintpope ‘s Enhanced Piano in his or her life for a tenner. But that figures...


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## quickbrownf0x (May 19, 2021)

I think the Embertone Walker Concert D sounds amazing.

https://www.embertone.com/instruments/concertD.php

36 separate velocities per note for all 88 notes. Pretty nuts.


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## NocturneSounds (May 19, 2021)

There's lots of brilliant pianos on the market, some I'd call "general-purpose" ones and there are other "niche" ones which are brilliant for that certain sound. There's a big range of prices too - from the examples you've said in your first post I'm guessing you're looking for something around $40-$70?

One of my personal go-to pianos is the Galaxy Vintage D. I've had for about 10 years now as my general-purpose piano and I still use almost every day. It doesn't seem to be mentioned much on here, but I love it's tone and versatility. However, it might be a little over your budget (though there are definitely more expensive options).

I'm not one for shameless plugs (apologies!) but my other go-to piano is my Nocturne Baby Grand Piano. I thought I'd better mention it because it's closer to the price range of the two others you mentioned. I've linked to the demos below:


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## Akora (May 19, 2021)

I just got Simple Sam Samples - Signature Grand a few days ago and love it! I went for something on the budget side (on sale now for $49.95) which has both great sound and able to play different genres. This one can do cinematic, classical, jazz and more. Warm recommendation from me!


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

Kenneth Malm said:


> I just got Simple Sam Samples - Signature Grand a few days ago and love it! I went for something on the budget side (on sale now for $49.95) which has both great sound and able to play different genres. This one can do cinematic, classical, jazz and more. Warm recommendation from me!



+1 Indeed, the price could be considered a budget category price, yet the quality of the piano makes this a triple A contender in my book as well. Good choice and way better sounding and more versatile than Spitfire’s Orchestral Grand


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## sostenuto (May 19, 2021)

** Note ! UVI just announced Austrian Grand ....... Intro pricing _ $49. 









UVI Austrian Grand - Exquisitely Crafted Concert Grand Piano


Billed as the ultimate concert grand, the luxurious ‘Vienna Concert’ piano is renowned for its rich sound and exemplary dynamics




www.uvi.net


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

This one used to be only exclusively available as part of their Acoustic Suite, no?


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## darkogav (May 19, 2021)

So many piano VSTs and so little time. Both sound miles better than anything I have from the NI, XLN and Arturia. From the demos -- the Cinematic Studio sounds better.

I don't know if there is any future benefit in buying into one companies ecosystem as opposed to the other? Do you get better deals and future discounts as an established customer? Something to consider I guess.


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## SGordB (May 19, 2021)

Just yesterday I noticed that an all-time fave of mine - VI Labs Ravenscroft - is half price here: https://vstbuzz.com/deals/50-off-ravenscroft-275-by-vi-labs/ I even left a review. I would buy it again, but, thankfully, these VIs may be pricey, but they’re not consumables.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 19, 2021)

gohrev said:


> Spitfire Grand Piano looks pretty tempting, too.


Steer clear of that one, it's not a good piano. I recently picked up Cinepiano, and it's now my go-to for just about anything that needs piano, highly recommended.


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## holywilly (May 19, 2021)

Maybe Spectrasonic’s Keyscape, versatile and yet beautiful.


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## filipjonathan (May 19, 2021)

NOIRE


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## sostenuto (May 19, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Maybe Spectrasonic’s Keyscape, versatile and yet beautiful.


Spectrasonics 'fanboy' here, but have hesitated _strangely _for very long time ... adding Keyscape. 
Researched enough to feel confident with strong content / no issues of concern ...... except 💲💲 ! 
Posts like this keep inching me forward. 🙈🙉🙊


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## Trash Panda (May 19, 2021)

Paging @Daniel James. He’s always happy to share info on piano libraries.


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## Peter Hirdes (May 19, 2021)

There are so many piano VSTs around its hard to recommand a special one. I'll do it anyway  
Among all my pianos I somehow tend to use again and again - in any context- Cinesamples Piano in Blue. Its transparent, very versatile and somewhow always shines through in the mix.


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## gohrev (May 19, 2021)

Thank you all VERY MUCH for your recommendations so far - I listed them all and will listen carefully on the weekend to make an informed decision. Again, *thank you*


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

Pleasure. Let us know which ones you like and what pianos you did end up getting!


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## SGordB (May 19, 2021)

gohrev said:


> Thank you all VERY MUCH for your recommendations so far - I listed them all and will listen carefully on the weekend to make an informed decision. Again, *thank you*


As a "newbie composer," may this be the first of many hundreds of piano VIs to come! 

(I apologize for saying that.)


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

SGordB said:


> As a "newbie composer," may this be the first of many hundreds of piano VIs to come!
> 
> (I apologize for saying that.)


I remember thinking “yeah right” when people said that. Now I realize there is deep truth in your statement


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## Alchemedia (May 19, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> This one used to be only exclusively available as part of their Acoustic Suite, no?


Yes, Bösendorfer. Sounds great, however, Chopin would tell you to stick with the Pleyel. 😎


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## CGR (May 19, 2021)

gohrev said:


> I am leaning towards the piano from Cinematic Studios, but the Spitfire Grand Piano looks pretty tempting, too.
> 
> Edit: More info as kindly suggested by @doctoremmet (thanks!)
> 
> ...


Within these considerations/limitations, the most suitable IMHO are:

Kontakt Player:
• Embertone Walker D lite
• Cinesamples CinePiano (on sale at present - if you can stretch your budget to $119)
• Cinematic Studio Grand (Yamaha C7)
• NOIRE (if you can get it on sale or in the Buy & Sell section here)

Free UVI Workstation:
• VI Labs Ravenscroft 275 (on sale at present for about $99USD as mentioned in this thread)
• UVI Austrian Grand (Bosendorfer 280VC with 3 mic sets) - on re-launch sale for $49
• Wholesounds 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand (more of a raw, earthy tone, but very realistic & playable)

Signature Grand, Nocturne Baby Grand, Cinesamples Piano in Blue and Xperimenta Project Due (Yamaha C7 and C3) are all very good options, but require the full version of Kontakt.

Good luck!

EDIT: This is worth a look:






Comparing Austrian Grand and Ravenscroft 275


I just picked up Austrian Grand for $49. I think before you had to buy the Key Suite Bundle, but now you can get it separately. https://www.uvi.net/austrian-grand For my taste, there is too much buzz in release samples. However, I love the warm tone, and I think it's great especially for the...




vi-control.net


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## Zane Smith (May 19, 2021)

I highly recommend Keyscape. I've been using it for the past 3 years and I've never come close to looking at other piano libraries. Plus if you have Omnisphere the two integrate seamlessly. 








Spectrasonics - Keyscape - Collector Keyboards







www.spectrasonics.net


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## bill5 (May 19, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Maybe Spectrasonic’s Keyscape, versatile and yet beautiful.


Waaay above the stated budget.

I have not used but hear good things about Addictive Keys (about $75).


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## Alchemedia (May 19, 2021)

Sampletekk piano VST's are currently on sale for peanuts. Anyone have an opinion on these? I haven't tried them.


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## Pianolando (May 19, 2021)

IMO the two best ones for exposed use are Embertone Walker and Garritan CFX. Both exist in cheaper “lite” versions if you don’t need all mic positions. Get something with many velocity layers if you want it to be playable and sound realistic in real world use, that is the most important thing with vi pianos apart from the sampled grand actually sounding great. This is different from for instance sampled strings where number of velocity layers is not nearly as critical.


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## VSriHarsha (May 19, 2021)

gohrev said:


> I am leaning towards the piano from Cinematic Studios, but the Spitfire Grand Piano looks pretty tempting, too.
> 
> Edit: More info as kindly suggested by @doctoremmet (thanks!)
> 
> ...


You mean the Orchestral Grand, from Spitfire?

@doctoremmet it suits stand alone pieces?

I think I heard @dzilizzi said it’s much good for the actual Orchestral works, which would have some Piano Parts but not mainly a Piano piece.

That’s nice! So, I think it’s good for all kinds of pieces.


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## VSriHarsha (May 19, 2021)

Thanks @dzilizzi & @doctoremmet !

I think I can think of it sometime.


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## VSriHarsha (May 19, 2021)

As for the recommendation, well, if you’re aware what’s goin on now, look at the Montclarion (Right?) Piano, from Soundiron.
Oh hey how about the Westwood Pianos? (Yay I did not forget this time !)

Also, there’s Ravenscroft Piano, which is on sale now, for $89? on VstBuzz. Oh and you don’t need Kontakt for this, I think.

And there’s Mrs. Mills Piano, from Spitfire, which works on their own free players. And there are some loads of free Piano libraries out there seriously good.


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## VSriHarsha (May 19, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> The Spitfire Grand is mainly geared towards “dressed” use in an orchestral setting. As a standalone piano for exposed work I do not recommend it.
> 
> Also, are you looking for a dedicated VST? So no (full) Kontakt? Would Kontakt Player be ok? If you provide more pinpointed information about requirements and prospected use cases, you’ll receive way more useful feedback


Oh ok sorry! There it is. Yea so that’s what I heard from @dzilizzi. Sorry I don’t have to write that post. Thanks again @dzilizzi @doctoremmet!
Yes, the Orchestra Grand is not specifically for the exclusive Piano pieces.

Did anyone mention Sonuscore’s Lo Ki?


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## cfodeebiedaddy (May 19, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> Sampletekk piano VST's are currently on sale for peanuts. Anyone have an opinion on these? I haven't tried them.


Many of them still sound really good. I've got pretty much all of the current 'heavy hitters', but I've never deleted the Sampletekk libraries from my machine.

And, if you can somehow track down the old PMI Emperor/Old Lady VIs they released, they still have a special place in my heart!


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> As for the recommendation, well, if you’re aware what’s goin on now, look at the Montclarion (Right?) Piano, from Soundiron.
> Oh hey how about the Westwood Pianos? (Yay I did not forget this time !)
> 
> Also, there’s Ravenscroft Piano, which is on sale now, for $89? on VstBuzz. Oh and you don’t need Kontakt for this, I think.
> ...


Soundiron Montclarion is nice but requires Full Kontakt. So does ALT Piano. 

The Originals are quite good but they are all somewhat of a “character” piano and not real “multi purpose” instruments. I do love the Original Felt, and for $29 they are a steal.


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

cfodeebiedaddy said:


> Many of them still sound really good. I've got pretty much all of the current 'heavy hitters', but I've never deleted the Sampletekk libraries from my machine.
> 
> And, if you can somehow track down the old PMI Emperor/Old Lady VIs they released, they still have a special place in my heart!


Agreed on the Sampletekk, they’re Full Kontakt though...


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## doctoremmet (May 19, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> Yes, Bösendorfer. Sounds great, however, Chopin would tell you to stick with the Pleyel. 😎


Only Pleyel I have (and love) is UVI Augmented.


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## gohrev (May 20, 2021)

SGordB said:


> As a "newbie composer," may this be the first of many hundreds of piano VIs to come!
> 
> (I apologize for saying that.)


But first: Just _one more _strings library


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## gohrev (May 20, 2021)

I had some time to spare this morning and listened through a _lot_ of demos, allowing for a shortlist of choices:


Embertone Walker D // $99 // Beautiful "classic" sound
Ravenscroft 275 // €85 (ca. $105) // Crystal clear
Austrian Grand // €49 (ca. $60) // Warm, rich sound
XLN Studio Grand // €90 (ca. ca. $110) // Typical Steinway
Cinematic Studios Piano // $69 // Solid sound, complements my CS sections
Will keep you posted


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## filipjonathan (May 20, 2021)

gohrev said:


> I had some time to spare this morning and listened through a _lot_ of demos, allowing for a shortlist of choices:
> 
> 
> Embertone Walker D // $99 // Beautiful "classic" sound
> ...


I have XLN grand and I haven't even installed it. If it's possible, I can just transfer the licence to you.


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## filipjonathan (May 20, 2021)

Actually just checked and I can't transfer that specific license, sorry.


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## dzilizzi (May 20, 2021)

I really love the Ravenscroft. It has a nice sound across the keyboard. 

If you get any of the Pianoteq pianos, they give you a bunch of free pianos, one of which is a Pleyel. It is a great sounding piano.


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## VSriHarsha (May 20, 2021)

Thanks @dzilizzi !


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## VSriHarsha (May 20, 2021)

Have anyone checked the Worn Tape Piano in the GarageBand iOS? You won’t believe it’s such a beautiful instrument am thinking of importing midi from Mac to the iOS, tweak it a little & export back to Mac. I was purely surprised by the sound.

Also hey anybody mentioned the Grand Piano from the MeldaProduction? Look it up!

Their description of the piano sampling made me download instantly & oh yea, it’s damn FREE. And it plays on their own free player.


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## Buz (May 20, 2021)

gohrev said:


> Cinematic Studios Piano // $69 // Solid sound, complements my CS sections


Oh if you have other products I think you get CSP half price.

edit - web site now says $48


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## gohrev (May 21, 2021)

That is odd, @Buz — it says $69 on my end. Will check back later


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## gohrev (May 21, 2021)

My friends, a quick email to the wonderful people at Cinematic Studios resulted in a great discount, as I already own their Strings, Brass and Woodwinds libraries.

It was an offer I couldn't refuse 

That said, *Ravenscroft 275* would've been my runner-up.


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## bill5 (May 21, 2021)

FWIW (to anyone re this topic), there's a huge thread at gearslutz - old, but the last few pages have newer commentary: https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/807797-best-piano-vst-25.html


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## Hadrondrift (May 21, 2021)

bill5 said:


> gearslutz


Uh-oh


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## Alchemedia (May 23, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> In case you’d eventually lean towards the excellent Xperimenta Project Due, I happened to just find out that when you put their Xperimenta Preparato in your cart for $59.99 over at Audio Plugin Deals, they offer Due for an additional $49.99 - which is $110 for both libraries / strikes me as a deal.


Hey Doc,
How does Preparato compare to Augmented Piano? Thx!


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## SGordB (May 23, 2021)

gohrev said:


> My friends, a quick email to the wonderful people at Cinematic Studios resulted in a great discount, as I already own their Strings, Brass and Woodwinds libraries.
> 
> It was an offer I couldn't refuse
> 
> That said, *Ravenscroft 275* would've been my runner-up.


Wow. The CSP sounds fabulous in their demos. That delicate, chalky C7 flavour -- beautifully captured, it seems.


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## gohrev (May 24, 2021)

I don't regret it, @SGordB


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## applegrovebard (May 24, 2021)

Re a recent post: I have both Augmented Piano and Preparato. They are both rich with intriguing timbres. The plus for Preparato is that you can choose different treatments for different notes on the keyboard (and some presets make use of this feature) that, when you also consider the ways each treatment can be altered, opens up vast possibilities.

Many sampled pianos just don't hang together under my fingers- I feel I'm triggering (sometimes lovely sounding) samples rather than playing a robust instrument. Examples for me would be Walker Lite, Piano in Blue, Sampletekk pianos. This may not be a problem eg if you don't demand dynamic nuance, play within their strengths. Sampled pianos that have considerably less of an issue here: Garritan CFX lite, Ravenscroft- and Hammersmith Free which I do recommend if you don't need extras like different mic positions. 

There are virtual pianos more excellent for the joy of just playing them and then those that can sound very nice in specific music production settings.


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## doctoremmet (May 24, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> Hey Doc,
> How does Preparato compare to Augmented Piano? Thx!


Have not tested / played with it yet. Will let you know as soon as I do. Augmented is a great sample though! Love that Pleyel.


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## ThomasB (May 24, 2021)

... as a longtime (grand) piano player i can say: have a look at Pianoteq!


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## Soundbed (May 24, 2021)

gohrev said:


> Ravenscroft 275 // €85 (ca. $105) /


+1


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## Soundbed (May 24, 2021)

Buz said:


> Oh if you have other products I think you get CSP half price.
> 
> edit - web site now says $48


I love Cinematic Studio stuff but not that piano sadly. Personal choice I guess.


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## Alchemedia (May 24, 2021)

SGordB said:


> Wow. The CSP sounds fabulous in their demos. That delicate, chalky C7 flavour -- beautifully captured, it seems.


Where are the specs on this piano? I couldn't find much info on the website.


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## applegrovebard (May 24, 2021)

The world divides into those who have a problem with the tone of Pianoteq and those who don't. I don't- but I will say that the main Pianoteq grand pianos do have a similar kind of tone to each other and you don't get the quirky, organic tones you can get with sampled pianos. You can detune and 'age' Pianoteq but it won't recreate the tone of particular character sample pianos.

Some say sampled pianos sound more like a real piano than Pianoteq. I would say, yes, a single played notes does (it is after all a recording of a real piano) but once you play several notes together, in important ways (related to how notes interact, how a moving string reacts to being re-struck etc) arguably Pianoteq sounds more like a real piano. For just sitting and playing, freely, exuberantly, (not playing gingerly so as as not to expose programming weaknesses) Pianoteq is my go-to.

Both modelled (Pianoteq) and sampled pianos are inching slowly towards the holy grail, the top of the mountain, from two different directions, with complementary strengths and weaknesses. In 2021, and probably for years to come, I still need both.


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## sostenuto (May 24, 2021)

Pardon 'side-step' plz ! Garritan CFX brings Aria Player into decision. Ravenscroft brings UVI Workstation. Are these equally 'solid' ( for Grand Piano VI(s) ) _vis-a-vis_ Kontakt 6, Synchron Player, xxx.. ?


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## VSriHarsha (May 24, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I really love the Ravenscroft. It has a nice sound across the keyboard.
> 
> If you get any of the Pianoteq pianos, they give you a bunch of free pianos, one of which is a Pleyel. It is a great sounding piano.


Pleyel is also the name of the actual Piano they sampled? I don’t know am asking.


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## Alchemedia (May 24, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Pleyel is also the name of the actual Piano they sampled? I don’t know am asking.


Yes, Chopin's favorite.


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## Soundbed (May 24, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Pardon 'side-step' plz ! Garritan CFX brings Aria Player into decision. Ravenscroft brings UVI Workstation. Are these equally 'solid' ( for Grand Piano VI(s) ) _vis-a-vis_ Kontakt 6, Synchron Player, xxx.. ?


UVI Workstation is solid


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## sostenuto (May 24, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> UVI Workstation is solid


THX ! Watched great, detailed YT comparison of Ravenscroft and Garritan CFX. Covered key items extensively, but nothing about either 'Player'. Current VSTBuzz _ Ravenscroft 275 deal is priced apprx $50. less than most sources for Garritan _ Abbey Road CFX. 
R 275 seems best choice now for next challenger to long list of VI(s), but ....


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## Soundbed (May 24, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> THX ! Watched great, detailed YT comparison of Ravenscroft and Garritan CFX. Covered key items extensively, but nothing about either 'Player'. Current VSTBuzz _ Ravenscroft 275 deal is priced apprx $50. less than most sources for Garritan _ Abbey Road CFX.
> R 275 seems best choice now for next challenger to long list of VI(s), but ....


I’ve used the UVI Workstation on a number of things and was so impressed I bought Falcon. Usually people agree it’s a solid player.


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## mholloway (May 24, 2021)

I personally swear by The Giant by Native Instruments (for Kontakt). I have other libraries, have heard other libraries.....I still use the Giant, day in, day out. Love it!


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## dzilizzi (May 25, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> THX ! Watched great, detailed YT comparison of Ravenscroft and Garritan CFX. Covered key items extensively, but nothing about either 'Player'. Current VSTBuzz _ Ravenscroft 275 deal is priced apprx $50. less than most sources for Garritan _ Abbey Road CFX.
> R 275 seems best choice now for next challenger to long list of VI(s), but ....


UVI is great. Very solid for me. I just have so few libraries on it, I tend to forget them until I want to use the Ravenscroft. Then I see them and remember.


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## VSriHarsha (May 25, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> UVI is great. Very solid for me. I just have so few libraries on it, I tend to forget them until I want to use the Ravenscroft. Then I see them and remember.


That’s a little funny but yea, I get it. I checked their website but it’s not written anywhere if the player actually comes with any free instruments or presets. Does it? Also, I think it’s a little stable than Kontakt, in terms of performance right?


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## doctoremmet (May 25, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> That’s a little funny but yea, I get it. I checked their website but it’s not written anywhere if the player actually comes with any free instruments or presets. Does it? Also, I think it’s a little stable than Kontakt, in terms of performance right?


Every UVI compatible instrument always works in the free UVI player called UVI Workstation. 

So whenever you’re purchasing a UVI based sample library, it’ll work in Workstation, never a need to go out and buy Falcon. Except for specific Falcon sound extensions. The free player just works, I’ve never encountered any stability issues. Since I’ve gotten Falcon I have always used just that, but it is by no means better strictly as a playback environment.


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## dzilizzi (May 25, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> That’s a little funny but yea, I get it. I checked their website but it’s not written anywhere if the player actually comes with any free instruments or presets. Does it? Also, I think it’s a little stable than Kontakt, in terms of performance right?


Technically, I don't think there are any "free" libraries for the UVI Workstation. I did get my first one free or really cheap - it was a UVI Steinway D - at some special offer on KVR years ago. Otherwise, there are a number of deals every so often on libraries that play in it.


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## sostenuto (May 25, 2021)

Each UVI support post is makes Ravenscroft 275 a more comfortable choice. THX all !

OTH Aria Player, provided for Garritan CFX, remains an unknown, other than high praise over time for R-CFX. Must then assume Aria Player is clearly capable for upper tier Piano VI application .... ? 
Stu Harrison / Merriam Music, would surely have noted troublesome issues during fine YT review. 🙏🏻


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## doctoremmet (May 25, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Technically, I don't think there are any "free" libraries for the UVI Workstation. I did get my first one free or really cheap - it was a UVI Steinway D - at some special offer on KVR years ago. Otherwise, there are a number of deals every so often on libraries that play in it.


UVI’s own Steinway D is a pretty good piano sample and is a giveaway with many Arturia hardware purchases. Can be picked up for a tenner, just ping @leo007 hehe. Highly recommended piano sample.

The Ravenscroft is held in very high esteem by a lot of piano sample enthusiasts. If you like the sound, don’t let the fact it is not in Kontakt hold you back. Whole Sound’s excellent 1954 Baldwin is another excellent UVI “based” piano with a lot of character (high in my piano sample Top Ten).

IIRC Virharmonic used to have a couple of freebies on their website, but they are currently moving away from UVI so that may have changed.


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## doctoremmet (May 25, 2021)

If you want to test drive UVI Workstation for free:









Virharmonic


VirHarmonic are Master Sample Crafters who bring you highly acclaimed solo violin and solo cello. Lyrical virtual instruments packed with emotion and expression.



www.virharmonic.com













Virharmonic


VirHarmonic are Master Sample Crafters who bring you highly acclaimed solo violin and solo cello. Lyrical virtual instruments packed with emotion and expression.



www.virharmonic.com


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## sostenuto (May 25, 2021)

Somewhat in context with Thread intent  ...... continuing to sort Austrian Grand, and searches, so far, do not indicate piano physical size. Did I overlook, or do we only know it is 'concert grand' _at apprx 275 cm ??_


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## Soundbed (May 25, 2021)

If you have $10 I also recommend the Air Mini Grand on sale. Handy.








AIR Mini Grand


Acoustic Grand Piano The piano—perhaps more than any other single instrument—conveys the whole range of musical thoughts and emotions like nothing else can. Whether you’re the next Evgeny Kissin bringing the crowd to their feet at the conclusion of a stirring rendition of Rachmaninoff’s Piano...




www.audiodeluxe.com


----------



## dzilizzi (May 25, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> UVI’s own Steinway D is a pretty good piano sample and is a giveaway with many Arturia hardware purchases. Can be picked up for a tenner, just ping @leo007 hehe. Highly recommended piano sample.
> 
> The Ravenscroft is held in very high esteem by a lot of piano sample enthusiasts. If you like the sound, don’t let the fact it is not in Kontakt hold you back. Whole Sound’s excellent 1954 Baldwin is another excellent UVI “based” piano with a lot of character (high in my piano sample Top Ten).
> 
> IIRC Virharmonic used to have a couple of freebies on their website, but they are currently moving away from UVI so that may have changed.


The Steinway D got me a great discount on UVI's acoustic piano library. I love their Fazioli.


----------



## sostenuto (May 25, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> The Steinway D got me a great discount on UVI's acoustic piano library. I love their Fazioli.


Wonder if Austrian Grand purchase will offer similar Keysuite Acoustic discount ? Will try asking UVI.


----------



## Soundbed (May 25, 2021)

I also learned about UVI Workstation when they offered their Steinway D for free.


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## dzilizzi (May 25, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Wonder if Austrian Grand purchase will offer similar Keysuite Acoustic discount ? Will try asking UVI.


I'm not sure if it is in the Keysuite. The Keysuite is basically all of their old pianos dumped together with a few newer ones they added.


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## StillLife (May 25, 2021)

I am intrigued by VSL's Blüthner. I may try that one out, you may as well, as VSL offers a 14 day refund...
Oh, but no Kontakt, sorry. I do think that the Synchron Player is very good...


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## sostenuto (May 25, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm not sure if it is in the Keysuite. The Keysuite is basically all of their old pianos dumped together with a few newer ones they added.


In Keysuite Bundle ? ... not Acoustic ... but released out of earlier grouping ? No matter, sent Support message to UVI. 🤷🏻


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## VSriHarsha (May 25, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> Technically, I don't think there are any "free" libraries for the UVI Workstation. I did get my first one free or really cheap - it was a UVI Steinway D - at some special offer on KVR years ago. Otherwise, there are a number of deals every so often on libraries that play in it.


Ok thanks @dzilizzi ! That’s nice!


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## VSriHarsha (May 25, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Every UVI compatible instrument always works in the free UVI player called UVI Workstation.
> 
> So whenever you’re purchasing a UVI based sample library, it’ll work in Workstation, never a need to go out and buy Falcon. Except for specific Falcon sound extensions. The free player just works, I’ve never encountered any stability issues. Since I’ve gotten Falcon I have always used just that, but it is by no means better strictly as a playback environment.


Thanks @doctoremmet !
That’s helpful.


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## VSriHarsha (May 25, 2021)

Is it common for developers to sample the Steinway D, than any other Steinways?

Although, Sampletekk’s a little different.

Anybody got XLN Audio’s Studio Grand? That’s Steinway D too, right?

Whatever it is, I love the damn good, beautiful sound.


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## doctoremmet (May 25, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Is it common for developers to sample the Steinway D, than any other Steinways?
> 
> Although, Sampletekk’s a little different.
> 
> ...


A D is kind of a reference grand much like a Yamaha C7 is. They are used on a lot of concert hall stages, so they’re bound to be sampled a lot I guess?

Samples of other models do exist though. Just for fun and because I use Xsample’s nifty little Steinway sample a lot, which is a recording of a Model B, I have collected a couple of other B’s.

The AIR Mini Grand is a B. Fluffy Audio Scoring Piano. Art Vista Virtual Grand 3. Love the Versillian Joachim’s Piano too, a “character B” if there ever was one. Synthogy Ivory II has one. Toontrack EZKeys (I do not own that one). There’s also Light & Sound Concert Grand, which is a rather interesting Model C. I did a thread on that one a while ago, but I still have to buy that one. I believe I was aware of a sample of a Model A too, but I forget haha.


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## doctoremmet (May 25, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Although, Sampletekk’s a little different.


Yes they have an excellent range of great and different pianos. But some of their best samples are a Steinway D and a C7 haha, so those seem inescapable, lol.


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## cygnusdei (May 26, 2021)

My problem is these recommendations sound exciting but when you listen to the demos they are underwhelming, and I suspect the fault partly lies on the company's marketing division, i .e. they can't he bothered to produce good demos. I would be interested in "top 1" recommendations along with a demo that represents the piano in the best possible light. I'm willing to go first if that sounds interesting.


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## doctoremmet (May 26, 2021)

cygnusdei said:


> My problem is these recommendations sound exciting but when you listen to the demos they are underwhelming, and I suspect the fault partly lies on the company's marketing division, i .e. they can't he bothered to produce good demos. I would be interested in "top 1" recommendations along with a demo that represents the piano in the best possible light. I'm willing to go first if that sounds interesting.


What company are we talking about here?


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## cygnusdei (May 26, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> What company are we talking about here?


Pretty much across the board, to me anyway


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## SupremeFist (May 26, 2021)

StillLife said:


> I am intrigued by VSL's Blüthner. I may try that one out, you may as well, as VSL offers a 14 day refund...
> Oh, but no Kontakt, sorry. I do think that the Synchron Player is very good...


That VSL Blüthner is one of my absolute favourites.


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## doctoremmet (May 26, 2021)

Ah ok, gotcha. You think forum members’ demos will be more convincing? Because a lot of the piano VST “love” is highly subjective I feel...


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## cygnusdei (May 26, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Ah ok, gotcha. You think forum members’ demos will be more convincing? Because a lot of the piano VST “love” is highly subjective I feel...


At least we seem to care, which is more than can be said about the marketing department


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## doctoremmet (May 26, 2021)

cygnusdei said:


> At least we seem to care, which is more than can be said about the marketing department


So in your opinion the marketing department of almost all vendors selling piano samples suck? Since you were talking earlier about “the” marketing department I thought you meant one specific vendor.

In that case: @Simeon has a cool channel called PraiseTracks. His piano demos are always good and passionate.

And here’s a piano demo (of a sample I also happen to like a lot) done by Louis Couka (UVI) that shows some marketeers actually do care:



This is one of the best demos I’ve seen.


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## cygnusdei (May 26, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> So in your opinion the marketing department of almost all vendors selling piano samples suck?
> 
> In that case: @Simeon has a cool channel called PraiseTracks. His piano demos are always good and passionate.


Yes. weird. I think people would want to hear at least a standard repertoire in its entirety, performed convincingly. But nooo ... , most of the demos are probably unflattering to the piano's actual capability.

Noted Re: your reference


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## doctoremmet (May 26, 2021)

cygnusdei said:


> Yes. weird. I think people would want to hear at least a standard repertoire in its entirety, performed convincingly. But nooo ... , most of the demos are probably unflattering to the piano's actual capability.
> 
> Noted Re: your reference


Gotcha!


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## Rob (May 26, 2021)

Anybody knows the Austrian Grand specs, like number of velocity layers? Well that's all I care for really


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## CGR (May 26, 2021)

Rob said:


> Anybody knows the Austrian Grand specs, like number of velocity layers? Well that's all I care for really


Hey Rob - I emailed UVI support with this question when it was first released. It has 9 velocity layers per note of sustain samples, plus sympathetic resonance samples with layer morphing and separate release samples. No separate sustain pedal down samples (similar to the Galaxy Instruments pianos like Vintage D and Noire).


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## Rob (May 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> Hey Rob - I emailed UVI support with this question when it was first released. It has 9 velocity layers per note of sustain samples, plus sympathetic resonance samples with layer morphing and separate release samples. No separate sustain pedal down samples (similar to the Galaxy Instruments pianos like Vintage D and Noire).


thanks Craig! Do you happen to have this piano? And if so, how would you rate it?


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## CGR (May 26, 2021)

Rob said:


> thanks Craig! Do you happen to have this piano? And if so, how would you rate it?


I do have it Rob. I picked it up last year with a loyalty upgrade as part of the Keysuite Acoustic Bundle. It's not listed but it's a Bosendorfer 280VC. It's UVI's deepest sampled piano, and it feels and sounds like it.

Very playable and dynamic, but I've spent considerable time adjusting parameters to get it to work to my liking. It's warmer than the VSL 280VC with a thicker, rounder bass, but not as open and naturally resonant. It's more suited to jazz and contemporary playing I think - more of a recording studio vibe to it if you know what I mean.

Have you checked out these?:


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## keepitsimple (May 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> I do have it Rob. I picked it up last year with a loyalty upgrade as part of the Keysuite Acoustic Bundle. It's not listed but it's a Bosendorfer 280VC. It's UVI's deepest sampled piano, and it feels and sounds like it.
> 
> Very playable and dynamic, but I've spent considerable time adjusting parameters to get it to work to my liking. It's warmer than the VSL 280VC with a thicker, rounder bass, but not as open and naturally resonant. It's more suited to jazz and contemporary playing I think - more of a recording studio vibe to it if you know what I mean.
> 
> Have you checked out these?:



Holy cow it sounds really good here. Love these key release noises. Dude can play too.


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## Rob (May 26, 2021)

very helpful info, thanks again! Might pick this up, pity for the ped down samples
EDIT: really like the upper range, though I keep hearing an unpleasant upper partial in that mid Eb the guy's playing


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## CGR (May 26, 2021)

Rob said:


> very helpful info, thanks again! Might pick this up, pity for the ped down samples
> EDIT: really like the upper range, though I keep hearing an unpleasant upper partial in that mid Eb the guy's playing


Yeah, it helps to dial back the sympathetic resonance control from the default I've found. As you can hear, in the right hands it sounds great, and he's obviously very engaged with the response whilst playing it.


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## VSriHarsha (May 26, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Yes they have an excellent range of great and different pianos. But some of their best samples are a Steinway D and a C7 haha, so those seem inescapable, lol.


Ok C7 Yamaha right?


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## VSriHarsha (May 26, 2021)

Thanks @dzilizzi !


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## VSriHarsha (May 26, 2021)

Anybody mentioned Hammersmith Free, btw?


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## sostenuto (May 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> Yeah, it helps to dial back the sympathetic resonance control from the default I've found. As you can hear, in the right hands it sounds great, and he's obviously very engaged with the response whilst playing it.


Not asking for tedious, detailed Reply, but could you add further 'parameter adjustments' _ beyond sympathetic resonance ?

Considering Austrian Grand seriously, yet added Garritan CFX Lite yesterday and very pleased so far ! Intend to Upgrade to Full shortly.

Thank-you for Walker 1955 Concert D _ Hammer /Room Mic comment earlier ! Just added Room and looking forward to enjoying today ! 🙏🏻


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## Alchemedia (May 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> It's UVI's deepest sampled piano, and it feels and sounds like it.


I thought Augmented Piano was UVI's most deeply sampled after IRCAM, no?


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## doctoremmet (May 26, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> I thought Augmented Piano was UVI's most deeply sampled after IRCAM, no?


Augmented is their prepared piano. The Austrian Grand is their newest and deepest acoustic grand.


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## Alchemedia (May 26, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Augmented is their prepared piano. The Austrian Grand is their newest and deepest acoustic grand.


Yes but how does AG compare to Augmented's Pleyel?


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## doctoremmet (May 26, 2021)

They both serve a completely different purpose. I’d argue the Pleyel is most suited for more out there, well...., “treated” types of piano sounds. Cage-like. 

Austrian Grand is way more suited for classical and jazz use cases.


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## Alchemedia (May 26, 2021)

I wonder what Chopin would have thought of Cage and which Glenn Gould would prefer? 😎


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## sostenuto (May 26, 2021)

GG likely passes unless provided range of VSL !


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## Alchemedia (May 26, 2021)

Gould's cover of 4′33″ is transplendent.


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## Trash Panda (May 26, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Is it common for developers to sample the Steinway D, than any other Steinways?
> 
> Although, Sampletekk’s a little different.
> 
> ...


I have every product from XLN except XO, and love them all except for Addictive Keys. I find the NI models that came in Komplete 12 all sound better.


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## darkogav (May 26, 2021)

A really great doc on Cage on Kanopy for those that don't get Cage. (It was great to me anyways). You should be able to get access via your local library in NA. I think Kanopy is all over.






Kanopy - Stream Classic Cinema, Indie Film and Top Documentaries


kui




torontopl.kanopy.com


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## Thundercat (May 26, 2021)

Kenneth Malm said:


> I just got Simple Sam Samples - Signature Grand a few days ago and love it! I went for something on the budget side (on sale now for $49.95) which has both great sound and able to play different genres. This one can do cinematic, classical, jazz and more. Warm recommendation from me!



Cant go wrong with this library. Price is right, sound is fabulous!!!!


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## Thundercat (May 26, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Steer clear of that one, it's not a good piano. I recently picked up Cinepiano, and it's now my go-to for just about anything that needs piano, highly recommended.


Cinepiano is awesome!!!


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## CGR (May 26, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Not asking for tedious, detailed Reply, but could you add further 'parameter adjustments' _ beyond sympathetic resonance ?
> 
> Considering Austrian Grand seriously, yet added Garritan CFX Lite yesterday and very pleased so far ! Intend to Upgrade to Full shortly.
> 
> Thank-you for Walker 1955 Concert D _ Hammer /Room Mic comment earlier ! Just added Room and looking forward to enjoying today ! 🙏🏻


Here's the controls:


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## sostenuto (May 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> Here's the controls:


Aah ! Super cool way to xfr lots of needed info ! Many thanks for these.


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## Fleer (May 26, 2021)

Don’t know why exactly, but I’m always coming back to seven favorites of mine (apart from Pianoteq) for their specific character: the Embertone Walker, ImpactSoundworks Pearl, Wavesfactory Mercury, WholeSounds Baldwin, OrangeTreeSamples Rosewood, Bechstein Digital and Soundiron Emotional Grands. Many other piano libraries are close, but these seven are vested in my heart.


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## CGR (May 26, 2021)

Fleer said:


> Don’t know why exactly, but I’m always coming back to seven favorites of mine (apart from Pianoteq) for their specific character: the Embertone Walker, ImpactSoundworks Pearl, Wavesfactory Mercury, WholeSounds Baldwin, OrangeTreeSamples Rosewood, Bechstein Digital and Soundiron Emotional Grands. Many other piano libraries are close, but these seven are vested in my heart.


A fine selection - still waiting on the promised update/V2 of the Orange Tree Rosewood C7 Grand though


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## CGR (May 26, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> Yes but how does AG compare to Augmented's Pleyel?


Apart from the very interesting & musical preparations, the Augmented Pleyel has a very warm Standard & Una Corda sample set. Wouldn't try something like this though on the Pleyel, which I played on the Austrian Grand (without pedal) using a 2 mic mix:

View attachment UVI Austrian Grand - Hornsby Groove.mp3


Here's my settings for those interested:


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## Alchemedia (May 26, 2021)

Brilliant! Thanks CGR. I take it you like the AG, eh?


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## CGR (May 26, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> Brilliant! Thanks CGR. I take it you like the AG, eh?


Yeah I do - another colour in the palette! Also I find the UVI engine is intuitive and efficient.


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## StillLife (May 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> Yeah I do - another colour in the palette! Also I find the UVI engine is intuitive and efficient.


But do you still regard the VSL Synchron piano's as the top of the crop?


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## CGR (May 26, 2021)

StillLife said:


> But do you still regard the VSL Synchron piano's as the top of the crop?


Preferences for various types of character aside, Yes.


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## Fleer (May 27, 2021)

CGR said:


> A fine selection - still waiting on the promised update/V2 of the Orange Tree Rosewood C7 Grand though


Exactly!


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## sostenuto (May 27, 2021)

Fleer said:


> Exactly!


Greg commented long ago regarding work on 'resonance' with Rosewood. Surprised this has not reached fruition. He has been silent since. Still trust implicitly, and hoping for something soon.


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## newman (May 27, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> added Garritan CFX Lite yesterday and very pleased so far ! Intend to Upgrade to Full shortly.


If you enjoyed the Lite version, I would highly recommend the Garritan CFX Full.

Upgrade path is less clear for those who don't like the lite version. On the PW forums, some people who disliked the Lite version also disliked the Garritan CFX Full (but some liked it).

Note there is quite a bit of ambience in the samples which might matter for producers, but you can hear that ambience in the Lite version.

This is a popular VI for classical piano practice on PianoWorld. Check out the settings and tweaks there. For example






Garritan CFX hiss fix ?


Hey. The hiss/noise in Garritan CFX is so annoying that I have sometimes switched to Pianoteq, and considered abandoning CFX. But I always return with different approaches to get rid of hiss, also based on hints from you guys in some old threads. The latest consideration is to max out the...




forum.pianoworld.com


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## sostenuto (May 27, 2021)

newman said:


> If you enjoyed the Lite version, I would highly recommend the Garritan CFX Full.
> 
> Upgrade path is less clear for those who don't like the lite version. On the PW forums, some people who disliked the Lite version also disliked the Garritan CFX Full (but some liked it).
> 
> ...


THX. 
_fwiw _.. Sweetwater had/has Lite and Upgrade attractive enuf to push me forward. Have all Mics for Lite, so puzzling over 'full'.


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## SGordB (May 27, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> THX.
> _fwiw _.. Sweetwater had/has Lite and Upgrade attractive enuf to push me forward. Have all Mics for Lite, so puzzling over 'full'.


The Lite version only has the "classic" mic setup and no "ambient" (room) mics. The full also gives you a player and a "contemporary" (close to the hammers) profile. Each profile can be mixed with the ambient mics, but not with each other (unless, I guess, you run more than one instance of the plugin, but even one instance tends to tax the single-core performance of the 4GHz i7 on my iMac if I push it too hard or too long). I also started with the Lite version; loved it; so I upgraded. But the incremental cost for me, at least, didn't add commensurate value to an already wonderful piano. I've found that I usually prefer the Classic profile anyway, and because my usual MO is to use external reverb (including MIR Pro), the ambient mics rarely get used. Still, I seem to be atypical on this. Like Newman, users always seem to recommend the upgrade (which is why I did it!). Still, it is nice to have the extra mics if you don't mind the ~$80 upgrade fee.


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## sostenuto (May 27, 2021)

SGordB said:


> The Lite version only has the "classic" mic setup and no "ambient" (room) mics. The full also gives you a player and a "contemporary" (close to the hammers) profile. Each profile can be mixed with the ambient mics, but not with each other (unless, I guess, you run more than one instance of the plugin, but even one instance tends to tax the single-core performance of the 4GHz i7 on my iMac if I push it too hard or too long). I also started with the Lite version; loved it; so I upgraded. But the incremental cost for me, at least, didn't add commensurate value to an already wonderful piano. I've found that I usually prefer the Classic profile anyway, and because my usual MO is to use external reverb (including MIR Pro), the ambient mics rarely get used. Still, I seem to be atypical on this. Like Newman, users always seem to recommend the upgrade (which is why I did it!). Still, it is nice to have the extra mics if you don't mind the ~$80 upgrade fee.


I really appreciate your help ! (1) more Mic @ $15. and will have them all. Some issues getting started fully with Aria player (Win10 Pro / older i5 4440 quad / 32GB DDR3 /Reaper) but have played some mics enough to feel CFX rises quickly to top of list. For Upgrade $$ to full CFX, can add Austrian Grand, maybe use xtra $40. elsewhere. Clearly should have thought this through more carefully, at beginning. K6.5.3 taking forever to Batch re-save all (5) Mics now. 
No matter, thanks very much for taking time to share ! 🙏🏻


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## newman (May 27, 2021)

SGordB said:


> Each profile can be mixed with the ambient mics, but not with each other (unless, I guess, you run more than one instance of the plugin


I can run 2 instances of the Aria player to mix and match stereo mic sets without using a DAW. I don't see any performance difference on my old laptop. I think I tried running 3 instances of Aria without issues but can't remember. Running through a DAW with a modern multi-core CPU might be highest performance for some users.


sostenuto said:


> I really appreciate your help ! (1) more Mic @ $15. and will have them all. Some issues getting started fully with Aria player (Win10 Pro / older i5 4440 quad / 32GB DDR3 /Reaper) but have played some mics enough to feel CFX rises quickly to top of list.


Windows Anti-virus exclusion of the Garritan CFX folder can reduce loading time by a factor of 3.

Some people see better performance by significantly boosting or lowering the "Inst. Disk Pre-Caching". I use a huge number (taking advantage of all the RAM on my laptop, perhaps) but some people get better performance with very low numbers. Some have tried changing the OEM settings


Increase Max Engine RAM Allocation DID_RAM_STRM_MAX above 16GB? - Plogue.com


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## zwhita (May 27, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Anybody mentioned Hammersmith Free, btw?


I picked it up after the last BF sale and could have sworn it was completely missing the FF and above dynamics. Maybe I was doing something wrong. Still sounded quite nice.


----------



## VSriHarsha (May 27, 2021)

zwhita said:


> I picked it up after the last BF sale and could have sworn it was completely missing the FF and above dynamics. Maybe I was doing something wrong. Still sounded quite nice.


I didn’t recognize, well, I haven’t used it much but love the sound. Look at the bright side, it shows on the browser tab.


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## gohrev (May 28, 2021)

My professed love for Cinematic Studio Piano subsided rather quickly.. I just couldn't get it to sound right. A bit of a regret, my only disappointment in the entire CS series!

I am now experimenting with Ravenscroft 275 - what a lovely, brilliant sound. Now, to figure out what mic mix to use...


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## Trash Panda (May 28, 2021)

Blackhole seems to make any piano sound amazing. I wasn’t too thrilled with CSP either until I tried it with the close or spot mics with the Blackhole preset.


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## sostenuto (May 28, 2021)

Much fine advice / impressions here, yet truly perplexed before moving forward. Hours of purchase, set-up, comparing, and Garritan CFX Lite sits at top __ but close to multi tracks of Walker 1955 Concert D using Hammer & Room Mics. 
Next 'planned' step was Upgrade to CFX Full for $80. ... but afaik .... all I get is: 
Classic Mic _ Ambient Perspective & Contemporary Mic _ Ambient Perspective . 
Is this truly worth $80. ? Austrian Grand is only promo $49. BUT _ I want a 'top of list' piano now, not a pile of 'also ran(s)'. Need some specific help with this specific issue, plz !


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## doctoremmet (May 29, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Much fine advice / impressions here, yet truly perplexed before moving forward. Hours of purchase, set-up, comparing, and Garritan CFX Lite sits at top __ but close to multi tracks of Walker 1955 Concert D using Hammer & Room Mics.
> Next 'planned' step was Upgrade to CFX Full for $80. ... but afaik .... all I get is:
> Classic Mic _ Ambient Perspective & Contemporary Mic _ Ambient Perspective .
> Is this truly worth $80. ? Austrian Grand is only promo $49. BUT _ I want a 'top of list' piano now, not a pile of 'also ran(s)'. Need some specific help with this specific issue, plz !


Kind of difficult to decide what top of the line, “revered by many” (out of the ones you’ve tested) piano sample is ultimately going to work for YOU, isn’t it? 

I usually do not care for MANY MORE mic positions much, but rather am very picky when it comes to velocity curves and keyboard response. In that regard I wouldn’t necessarily think the extra $80 for mics is worth it, but YMMV.

Have you considered the Ravenscroft as well? Or the 8Dio 1928 or 1985 (which is my favourite sample) for 50% off?


----------



## Simeon (May 29, 2021)

Just spent some time live with the Austrian Grand yesterday, lots of fun.


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## sostenuto (May 29, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Kind of difficult to decide what top of the line, “revered by many” (out of the ones you’ve tested) piano sample is ultimately going to work for YOU, isn’t it?
> 
> I usually do not care for MANY MORE mic positions much, but rather am very picky when it comes to velocity curves and keyboard response. In that regard I wouldn’t necessarily think the extra $80 for mics is worth it, but YMMV.
> 
> Have you considered the Ravenscroft as well? Or the 8Dio 1928 or 1985 (which is my favourite sample) for 50% off?


Ravenscropft was top of list after Stu Harrison YT Video, Then @ CGR comments re. personal impressions of sound ... being a bit _sterile_ ? Then Garritan CFX at Sweetwater had slightly better 
Lite-to-Full Upgrade, so Lite was added. It definitely stands apart from others ( incl Ivory II Italian ). 
Now very uncertain of benefits adding the two Mic perspectives. Ravenscroft Deal would have been few more $$ than Upgrading CFX. 
No ... have not checked 8Dio and will do so now.

THX for helping !


----------



## Alex C (May 29, 2021)

VI Labs Ravenscroft 275 is an eternal keeper. You basically get 4 different and very elaborate pianos.


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## keepitsimple (May 29, 2021)

Play the Ravenscroft on large monitors if you can. Ravenscroft shines when played on monitors. I have a pair of HS80Ms and the close mic of the Ravenscroft just sounds marvelous on them. Full and profound and far away from sterile.

I recently started using the side mics combined with the close mics and i love that combination a lot.


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## sostenuto (May 29, 2021)

THX Very much alive while on VSTBuzz for couple more days. 
Have my own weird system issues, as almost all YT video/audio reviews sound much different /better than libs when purchased and played on exact same system, in same physical position, perspective. 🤷🏻
Fairly capable with all hardware, so definitely needs to be resolved.


----------



## sostenuto (May 29, 2021)

keepitsimple said:


> Play the Ravenscroft on large monitors if you can. Ravenscroft shines when played on monitors. I have a pair of HS80Ms with 8 inch subs built-in and the close mic of the Ravenscroft just sounds marvelous on them. Full and profound and far away from sterile.
> 
> I recently started using the side mics combined with the close mics and i love that combination a lot.


Two very different audition /perfomance scenarios.

1.) DAW _ Win10 Pro, Reaper, Focusrite Saffire Pro 14, Yamaha HS5(s) + Energy powered Sub, KK-S49.

2.) Same DAW _ different Saffire Pro14, NAD Integrated Stereo Amp, B&W Stereo spkrs + Energy powered Sub, ear-level either side Roland KR577 Digi Piano. Never listen to YT reviews on this system (adjacent to # 1.) but VI Pianos just fail to rise to same 'full' sound as same ears hearing various YT performances.

fwiw _ have enjoyed Grotrian 223 Concert Grand for years, and retain good sense of maintained action with resulting sound. Always try to keep DAW levels 'reasonable', and NAD Amp Volume at similar levels to experiences with Grotrian. Puzzling, for sure.


----------



## sostenuto (May 29, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> * edit ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> 
> Have you considered the Ravenscroft as well? Or the 8Dio 1928 or 1985 (which is my favourite sample) for 50% off?


Reviewing all now, and intrigued with 1971 Estonia Grand ! 
Have not seen impressions anywhere, yet.


----------



## doctoremmet (May 29, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Reviewing all now, and intrigued with 1971 Estonia Grand !
> Have not seen impressions anywhere, yet.


That one I don’t know. Cool year though! I was born in ‘71 hehe


----------



## doctoremmet (May 29, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Reviewing all now, and intrigued with 1971 Estonia Grand !
> Have not seen impressions anywhere, yet.


8Dio pianos do not typically show up on a lot of Top 10 Piano VST lists. I am a 1985 fan, because it just works for me. Velocity wise, sample wise (una corda, staccatissimo samples). But there’s not much out there in terms of praise, shared experiences, demos etc.


----------



## sostenuto (May 29, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> That one I don’t know. Cool year though! I was born in ‘71 hehe


Two days left for Ravenscroft deal. Hard to not just add and learn ! 
Austrian - Bosendorfer 280VC at $50. also GASsifying.
Will check 1985 carefully as current promo pricing demands attention. ( Bob Dedes' audio track has me leaning ! 😉 )


----------



## SGordB (May 29, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Much fine advice / impressions here, yet truly perplexed before moving forward. Hours of purchase, set-up, comparing, and Garritan CFX Lite sits at top __ but close to multi tracks of Walker 1955 Concert D using Hammer & Room Mics.
> Next 'planned' step was Upgrade to CFX Full for $80. ... but afaik .... all I get is:
> Classic Mic _ Ambient Perspective & Contemporary Mic _ Ambient Perspective .
> Is this truly worth $80. ? Austrian Grand is only promo $49. BUT _ I want a 'top of list' piano now, not a pile of 'also ran(s)'. Need some specific help with this specific issue, plz !


Don't forget, the upgrade also gives you the player perspective, based on a binaural dummy head, I believe.


----------



## re-peat (May 29, 2021)

'Sterile' is not a word I would use in connection with the Ravenscroft, but I do have two tiny, tiny problems with it — tiny ones — and they’re both situated in the C2-C3 octave: when enabling both the Close and the Player mic’s, a few of the notes in that area seem to have the subtlest hint of phasing issues. Barely noticeable, but everytime I record something with the Ravenscroft, there’s always one or two moments when I’m thinking: “Now, is that entirely in phase or not?

And the second tiny problem is that four or five notes in the C2 octave have slightly distracting samples at the highest velocity. But if you don’t go there, there’s no problem of course. Like I said: tiny problems. On the whole, the Ravenscroft is a very good sampled piano, no question about it. Its current price is, frankly, ridiculous.

Not a fan of the new UVI Austrian Grand though (despite Rob's totally mesmerizing and very beautiful playing with it). But to my ears, nearly all the UVI pianos sound a bit like hardware digital pianos. I can’t describe it in any other way. There’s a sort of PCM-quality to their sound, I find. Samples that are the sonic equivalent of pinned and framed butterflies.
(I also feel, but this is totally unimportant, that it ships with terrible sounding presets, except for the ones that don’t stray too much from the core, unprocessed pianosound.)

_


----------



## sostenuto (May 29, 2021)

SGordB said:


> Don't forget, the upgrade also gives you the player perspective, based on a binaural dummy head, I believe.


Totally missed this by not selecting Mics tab on full version. Thank-you much for reminding ! ✌️


----------



## sostenuto (May 29, 2021)

re-peat said:


> 'Sterile' is not a word I would use in connection with the Ravenscroft, but I do have two tiny, tiny problems with it — tiny ones — and they’re both situated in the C2-C3 octave: when enabling both the Close and the Player mic’s, a few of the notes in that area seem to have the subtlest hint of phasing issues. Barely noticeable, but everytime I record something with the Ravenscroft, there’s always one or two moments when I’m thinking: “Now, is that entirely in phase or not?
> 
> And the second tiny problem is that four or five notes in the C2 octave have slightly distracting samples at the highest velocity. But if you don’t go there, there’s no problem of course. Like I said: tiny problems. On the whole, the Ravenscroft is a very good sampled piano, no question about it. Its current price is, frankly, ridiculous.
> 
> ...


My bad, as I definitely should have gone back to @ CGR specific descriptor(s). 
Sterile was NOT used; will try to search and correct.

Your level of detail here is appreciated here, as well as overall impressions of UVI piano sound. 
Always value having expectations ~~= reality.


----------



## Alchemedia (May 29, 2021)

Simeon demoed AG yesterday and the audio was glitching on certain heavily treated patches. Wondering whether it was due to the fact that he was simultaneously streaming? As much as I love Falcon it's something to consider since Kontakt is far more efficient resource-wise.


----------



## sostenuto (May 29, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> Simeon demoed AG yesterday and the audio was glitching on certain heavily treated patches. Wondering whether it was due to the fact that he was simultaneously streaming? As much as I love Falcon it's something to consider since Kontakt is far more efficient resource-wise.


Missed that, as skipped thru YT to hear different Presets, etc. 
Also tend to Kontakt and spending more time with multiple Mic versions of Walker 1955 Concert D. 

Simeon is using Falcon, not just UVI Workstation .......


----------



## Alchemedia (May 29, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Missed that, as skipped thru YT to hear different Presets, etc.
> Also tend to Kontakt and spending more time with multiple Mic versions of Walker 1955 Concert D.
> 
> Simeon is using Falcon, not just UVI Workstation .......


Yes, me too, however afaik he wasn't using any Falcon specific mods. Perhaps he'll chime in.


----------



## CGR (May 29, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> My bad, as I definitely should have gone back to @ CGR specific descriptor(s).
> Sterile was NOT used; will try to search and correct.
> 
> Your level of detail here is appreciated here, as well as overall impressions of UVI piano sound.
> Always value having expectations ~~= reality.


Here's my latest thoughts re. Ravenscroft 275:






Piano shootout: Ravenscroft 275 vs VSL Bösendorfer 280VC vs NOIRE


0:00 Ravenscroft Custom Preset 2:17 NOIRE "Extra Body" Preset 4:21 NOIRE "Jazzy" Preset 6:32 VSL 280VC Player Decca 9:28 VSL 280VC Timbre Shift -5 12:12 VSL 280VC Timbre Shift -4 14:21 VSL 280VC Timbre Shift -7 Help me pick one to mainly or heavily use in my solo piano album!




vi-control.net





I may have used the word 'sterile' in the past but 'clinical' is a more appropriate word. The physical piano they sampled for this VI (no. 004 I believe) used non-traditional materials such as titanium string termination points and to my ears contributes to a very pure fundamental. I still very much enjoy playing & hearing the VI Labs Ravenscroft 275 (and maybe even more so their Modern U), but I also like to mix it up and experience some more variation and imperfection such as with The Embertone Walker D, Pearl Concert Grand and Imperfect Samples Walnut Grand (1908 Hamburg Steinway D).


----------



## sostenuto (May 29, 2021)

CGR said:


> Here's my latest thoughts re. Ravenscroft 275:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


'Clinical' .... much softer impression ! Very pleased to see these additional perspectives, as current promo for Ravenscroft 275 is ending in day or so. One major draw with 275 is its uniqueness, incl those with S/N 004 .
IS - Walnut Concert Pro is maybe 'doable', as xch rate _ $ to GBP is terrible.

Truly enjoyable focus on additional piano VI(s), as other orchestral learning is a struggle.
Sorry to pester on one related point ... Garritan CFX Lite stands out fpr me, and several posts have dealt with comparative value of the few additional Mics. I seem to recall that you advise Upgrading to Full version even only adding those Mics. _Is that definitely the case _ ? My Sweetwater cost is $80.

_Side note_ ..... have enjoyed Ruslan Sirota's _ _Bee's Knees, A Lifetime Away, Improv Ballad ___ many times on playlist. Never knew it was the VI Labs -Modern U. 
Nuther add to my short list ! 🤷🏻

Additional thank-you for continuing to enhance the discussion !.


----------



## CGR (May 29, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Sorry to pester on one related point ... Garritan CFX Lite stands out fpr me, and several posts have dealt with comparative value of the few additional Mics. I seem to recall that you advise Upgrading to Full version even only adding those Mics. _Is that definitely the case _ ? My Sweetwater cost is $80.


Yes, for me the real beauty of this sampled piano is in the Abbey Road Ambient/room mics. There's a natural "bloom" in those samples that you just can't achieve by running the close mics through a reverb. There's too many factors going on with stereo image, room reflections etc. It's far from a subtle difference to my ears.


----------



## sostenuto (May 29, 2021)

CGR said:


> Yes, for me the real beauty of this sampled piano is in the Abbey Road Ambient/room mics. There's a natural "bloom" in those samples that you just can't achieve by running the close mics through a reverb. There's too many factors going on with stereo image, room reflections etc. It's far from a subtle difference to my ears.


🙏🏻 🎹🎵


----------



## VSriHarsha (May 29, 2021)

Is it ok to upload a track?


----------



## gohrev (May 30, 2021)

As OP I say: Go ahead, @VSriHarsha 

*Re: Ravenscroft *— I noticed the Close Mic gets extremely boomy in the C2 area, lowering it a bit while supplementing the output with the Side Mic takes the edge off and gives the sound some much-needed depth.

The Player Mic is, imho, completely useless_ edit: not too useful_. Haven't found usage for the Room Mic, and I find that it adds a strange density to the mix that takes away the clarity/sparkle of this beautiful VST.

I would love to know what mic setup others are using!


----------



## Alex C (May 30, 2021)

I mostly use Side and Player perspectives. Wouldn't know why it's useless. I always use one perspective at a time.


----------



## gohrev (May 30, 2021)

Perhaps I phrased it a bit too strongly. Put it this way: I haven't had use for it until now, as I find the Player Mic to produce a very dim sound.

Do you ever use the Room and Close mics?


----------



## Soundbed (May 30, 2021)

gohrev said:


> Price range up to $100


When your budget increases, consider 
Spectrasonics Keyscape​


----------



## VSriHarsha (May 30, 2021)

gohrev said:


> As OP I say: Go ahead, @VSriHarsha
> 
> *Re: Ravenscroft *— I noticed the Close Mic gets extremely boomy in the C2 area, lowering it a bit while supplementing the output with the Side Mic takes the edge off and gives the sound some much-needed depth.
> 
> ...


Lol! I actually meant to write in the other piano thread “ Put your best Piano forward”. Thanks anyway.


----------



## Alex C (May 30, 2021)

gohrev said:


> Perhaps I phrased it a bit too strongly. Put it this way: I haven't had use for it until now, as I find the Player Mic to produce a very dim sound.
> 
> Do you ever use the Room and Close mics?



Even with the Velocity Curve set to linear? I don't think the Side perspective is really all that different when it comes to 'brightness'. I sometimes (but not often) load up the Room perspective when I want to hear some more distance between the piano and me. I love the more rounded tone of the Side and Player perspectives so I rarely play with the Close perspective.


----------



## gohrev (May 30, 2021)

I wil try playing with the velocity curve, good tip


----------



## sostenuto (Jun 7, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> 🙏🏻 🎹🎵


Puzzled now. Purchased Walker 1955 Concert D Lite from 3rd Pty source. Have been able to add all (6) Mics. Folder size reflects this @ ~ 34GB per Mic. Embertone states that Full has: 36 Velocities Per Note, Una Corda+ No Sustain Pedal, Una Corda + Sustain Pedal, Articulation Memory Purging, Velocity Memory Purging. Not sure on Purging, but seem to have Una Corda features. 

** Is there an easy way to validate that current install is, in fact, Full ? All (6) Mic .nki appear in Kontakt 6.5.3.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic (Jun 7, 2021)

Does the Garritan CFX ever go on sale?


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo (Jun 9, 2021)

I’m also in search of the right piano for me. I only own the Ivory grands and have a hard time fitting those in the mix. The Ivory D (as with other D’s) is too dark and would need a lot of (unpleasant) eq-ing in an already busy mix. 
So a cleaner and more tight Piano would help me there. On the other hand I’d like to use it exposed, so it should have some character.
The Bechstein Digital sound like a good option, but I’m not sure if there are similar alternatives.
Too clinical ones like the Ravenscroft take the Spirit away for me. Tried Pianoteq,…and removed it pretty fast. ;(
Ah well, shouldn’t be a 100+GB Monster.


----------



## Fizzlewig (Jun 9, 2021)

You could try production voices compact Grand (Yamaha c7) on offer at $29 at the moment.


----------



## EmelGreer (Jun 9, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Have anyone checked the Worn Tape Piano in the GarageBand iOS? You won’t believe it’s such a beautiful instrument am thinking of importing midi from Mac to the iOS, tweak it a little & export back to Mac. I was purely surprised by the sound.
> 
> Also hey anybody mentioned the Grand Piano from the MeldaProduction? Look it up!
> 
> Their description of the piano sampling made me download instantly & oh yea, it’s damn FREE. And it plays on their own free player.


I just spent over an hour trying to get this free piano to work. MeldaProductions doesn’t have a free player anymore—it just links to the plugins, which I downloaded. I have the piano samples and the plugins, but the piano is not showing as a software instrument to load in Logic. HUGE waste of time and big time frustration. I would not recommend this.


----------



## SupremeFist (Jun 9, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> I’m also in search of the right piano for me. I only own the Ivory grands and have a hard time fitting those in the mix. The Ivory D (as with other D’s) is too dark and would need a lot of (unpleasant) eq-ing in an already busy mix.
> So a cleaner and more tight Piano would help me there. On the other hand I’d like to use it exposed, so it should have some character.
> The Bechstein Digital sound like a good option, but I’m not sure if there are similar alternatives.
> Too clinical ones like the Ravenscroft take the Spirit away for me. Tried Pianoteq,…and removed it pretty fast. ;(
> Ah well, shouldn’t be a 100+GB Monster.


Have you looked at CinePiano? Sounds like it might be up your street. 

Meantime I just discovered that, in literally the only good thing about Brexit, I could buy the C. Bechstein Digital Grand from Thomann (recommended by such fine persons as @CGR and @Fleer) and for some reason it didn't charge me VAT. So I bought it!


----------



## Fizzlewig (Jun 9, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Have you looked at CinePiano? Sounds like it might be up your street.
> 
> Meantime I just discovered that, in literally the only good thing about Brexit, I could buy the C. Bechstein Digital Grand from Thomann (recommended by such fine persons as @CGR and @Fleer) and for some reason it didn't charge me VAT. So I bought it!


Great piano but using a multi it is a cpu hog. I really like the sound of it though


----------



## Fleer (Jun 9, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Have you looked at CinePiano? Sounds like it might be up your street.
> 
> Meantime I just discovered that, in literally the only good thing about Brexit, I could buy the C. Bechstein Digital Grand from Thomann (recommended by such fine persons as @CGR and @Fleer) and for some reason it didn't charge me VAT. So I bought it!


It’s a glorious grand. Have a look at the string-based sound shaping as well.


----------



## Emanu1674 (Jun 9, 2021)

For 100 bucks you can get NI The Grandeur which is pretty good actually. For a little more you can get XPERIMENTA Due, i've heard it sounds awesome. But if you want a really good piano library i recommend you save and get CinePiano


----------



## ThomasB (Jun 9, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> I’m also in search of the right piano for me. I only own the Ivory grands and have a hard time fitting those in the mix. The Ivory D (as with other D’s) is too dark and would need a lot of (unpleasant) eq-ing in an already busy mix.
> So a cleaner and more tight Piano would help me there. On the other hand I’d like to use it exposed, so it should have some character.
> The Bechstein Digital sound like a good option, but I’m not sure if there are similar alternatives.
> Too clinical ones like the Ravenscroft take the Spirit away for me. Tried Pianoteq,…and removed it pretty fast. ;(
> Ah well, shouldn’t be a 100+GB Monster.


Depending on the music style, Truepianos works pretty nice.


----------



## river angler (Jun 9, 2021)

Hammersmith Free

This is one of the best I've come across recently- even the free version is highly usable.


----------



## FlyingAndi (Jun 9, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> I’m also in search of the right piano for me. I only own the Ivory grands and have a hard time fitting those in the mix. The Ivory D (as with other D’s) is too dark and would need a lot of (unpleasant) eq-ing in an already busy mix.
> So a cleaner and more tight Piano would help me there. On the other hand I’d like to use it exposed, so it should have some character.
> The Bechstein Digital sound like a good option, but I’m not sure if there are similar alternatives.
> Too clinical ones like the Ravenscroft take the Spirit away for me. Tried Pianoteq,…and removed it pretty fast. ;(
> Ah well, shouldn’t be a 100+GB Monster.


The Impact Soundworks Pearl fits well in the mix and also has it's own character.
There are issues with the hall mics, but it still has 3 other very good mic perspectives. I would wait for a sale, though.

And you could have a look at the current sampletekk sale (full Kontakt required). One of the C7 pianos could be an option. See this post for more information on the different options:





Sampletekk pianos recommendations during sale?


Hi I just saw an ad for sampletekk 80% sale. Are there pianos any good? I currently have the pianos from NI KU, and I just purchased Ascend during BF. I am looking for more upright and noticed they have a few, but I may purchase some grands too if they are so cheap. Im somewhat interested in the...




vi-control.net





I recently got the 7CG and it's very playable. Doesn't offer (and doesn't need) a lot of tweaking.


----------



## SupremeFist (Jun 10, 2021)

Fleer said:


> It’s a glorious grand. Have a look at the string-based sound shaping as well.


Very happy I finally got it. Instantly up there for me with my VSL, Cinesamples, Embertone, and Xperimenta pianos. Super clean and smooth yet always with an irrepressible character. ❤️


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo (Jun 12, 2021)

Thannks guys. Im deciding for Cinepiano or still the Bechstein. Noire sounds unrealistic after hearing more of it. Though I think the Bech could cause Earfatigue from the crisp highs. I know it won’t be my last buy.


----------



## musicisum (Jun 12, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Thannks guys. Im deciding for Cinepiano or still the Bechstein. Noire sounds unrealistic after hearing more of it. Though I think the Bech could cause Earfatigue from the crisp highs. I know it won’t be my last buy.


Nice choice. My personal favorite: V_ivid Keys_, running on the free sine player, if you don't have Kontakt full.








Vivid Keys


The warm, organic sound of a classic grand piano—in vivid detail. Recorded in a dry studio using close mics, Vivid Keys captures the pure, direct sound of a Yamaha C3 grand piano—a mainstay of recording studios worldwide




www.orchestraltools.com


----------



## AceAudioHQ (Jun 12, 2021)

There are three VI Labs pianos on sale for $99 at APD, they’re old but well liked









Veevum Series Bundle by Audiofier - Audio Plugin Deals


For only $29.99 instead of $105, get the Veevum Series Bundle featuring a growing series of Ambient and Cinematic instruments for modern producers.




audioplugin.deals


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo (Jun 12, 2021)

musicisum said:


> Nice choice. My personal favorite: V_ivid Keys_, running on the free sine player, if you don't have Kontakt full.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I read a lot of the Bechstein eating CPU like cake, so I don’t know what my i5 will say to that (still only 8gb ram also), Ivory’s run fine even with high voicesettings.
Cinepiano seems a bit of a hog too, so ummm….
____________________________________________

Decided now for Kontakt full Crossgrade  + Cinepiano.
That way i have now the option to all the smaller keys without breaking
the bank...and yea, even that Malmsjö is now a weird option...someday eventually...


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo (Jun 14, 2021)

After some testing, im Happy with Cinepiano. Its warm and mellow but can open up without getting artificial fizzy. Compared directly with the Ivory Grand D, it doesnt have that „Synthiness“ in the middle registers. 
Its ok on the CPU (a four core i5 iMac), just when the sus Pedal is released the CPU spikes up high (because of the release-samples firing up all at once, right??).
Voices are set at 256max in Kontakt.
Im using the Close-Mic with a bit of the Full mixed in.
If theres something to tweak for suggestion, please let me know. 😊


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo (Jun 24, 2021)

I’m now looking for a Piano that’s either sounding like a Pleyel or Malmsjö, with a different character than the darker Model Dˋs.
Is there a good option (i prefer a Kontakt lib), that has a small footprint (10 to 15GB max) and has a good playability. Shouldnt sound synthetic also.


----------



## doctoremmet (Jun 24, 2021)

Pleyel: UVI Augmented Piano
Malmsjö: Sampletekk WG Mk II (wait for 80% off sale)

This Pleyel also seems nice. 14 Gb - UVI Player though (which is actually pretty nice)



OldBlackGrand


----------



## CGR (Jun 24, 2021)

The Versillian Joachim's Piano is worth a look & listen. Although it's "another Steinway", the piano sampled is an old (late 1800's I think) New York Steinway B which sounds world's apart from a modern Steinway. @doctoremmet is a fan, and he has refined taste and good ears 

Also, I was recently made aware of the free SINE player instruments from Orchestral Tools, which includes a surprisingly good New York Steinway B from Sunset Sounds Studios. I checked the Sunset Sounds website and the piano was built in 1905, so a nice wiry, vintage tone but well in tune. Create an account at Orchestral Tools, download & install the SINE player and a collection of high quality instruments are available within the GUI to download for free.


----------



## Locks (Jun 24, 2021)

One piano VST that I never see mentioned but sounds terrific is Imagiro's Piano. Beautiful felted sound. It's a VST but I believe it was developed using HISE. 



imagiro's piano | imagiro


----------



## doctoremmet (Jun 24, 2021)

CGR said:


> Also, I was recently made aware of the free SINE player instruments from Orchestral Tools, which includes a surprisingly good New York Steinway B from Sunset Sounds Studios. I checked the Sunset Sounds website and the piano was built in 1905, so a nice wiry, vintage tone but well in tune.


As was I. It is a great B, like Craig already pointed out. Also, Sunset Sound Studios is a legendary studio. A while ago when IKM released their fan-tas-tic Sunset Sound Studios Reverb, I watched some of their videos, and Warren Huart has some on his channel Produce Like A Pro as well. Prince recorded his first albums there, The Doors, Van Halen, Led Zep, Beach Boys. And the place was actually founded by an ex-Disney engineer when his employer decided they no longer wanted to own and run their own studio. So before those famous artists came in to record, a lot of Disney scores were recorded there as well.

Which makes me wonder: on how many legendary albums will that B have been recorded?

Oh - and yes: Joachim’s Piano is a GREAT piano sample. One of the best I’ve had the pleasure to play around with. But I don’t know about my ears hehe


----------



## davinwv (Jun 24, 2021)

musicisum said:


> Nice choice. My personal favorite: V_ivid Keys_, running on the free sine player, if you don't have Kontakt full.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does anyone else have thoughts on Vivid Keys? I have tons of pianos, but only really connect with the Ravenscroft. Knowing that, would I like Vivid Keys?


----------



## sostenuto (Jun 24, 2021)

Considering Vivid Keys seriously at price point. But C3 is surely major gap in sound to Ravenscroft 295 .... 
_Easy solution ... sell me your Ravenscroft 275 for $97. (recent promo cost) and try out Vivid Keys ! _


----------



## sostenuto (Jun 24, 2021)

CGR said:


> The Versillian Joachim's Piano is worth a look & listen. Although it's "another Steinway", the piano sampled is an old (late 1800's I think) New York Steinway B which sounds world's apart from a modern Steinway. @doctoremmet is a fan, and he has refined taste and good ears
> 
> Also, I was recently made aware of the free SINE player instruments from Orchestral Tools, which includes a surprisingly good New York Steinway B from Sunset Sounds Studios. I checked the Sunset Sounds website and the piano was built in 1905, so a nice wiry, vintage tone but well in tune. Create an account at Orchestral Tools, download & install the SINE player and a collection of high quality instruments are available within the GUI to download for free.


OT- Sine Ratio Piano does surprisingly well on Home Studio system ! 
Tough choice between Joachim's Piano & IS - Walnut Grand.
Thinking maybe to get Walnut -Basic, as does not seem much penalty to then Upgrade to Complete.

Vivid Keys (C3) is comfortable at $79.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo (Jun 25, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Pleyel: UVI Augmented Piano
> Malmsjö: Sampletekk WG Mk II (wait for 80% off sale)
> 
> This Pleyel also seems nice. 14 Gb - UVI Player though (which is actually pretty nice)
> ...


The Augmented seems nice, but rare videos about its basic sound. Does it sound real enough? 😊


----------



## CGR (Jun 25, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> The Augmented seems nice, but rare videos about its basic sound. Does it sound real enough? 😊


It does in an Antique piano kinda way. I can post some solo piano of the standard and una corda presets if you like?


----------



## KEM (Jun 25, 2021)

Art Vista Malmsjö!!


----------



## VSriHarsha (Jun 25, 2021)

I wanna buy Splash Sound’s Gentle Keys.


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo (Jun 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> It does in an Antique piano kinda way. I can post some solo piano of the standard and una cords presets if you like?


Yea would like it, thanks


----------



## CGR (Jun 26, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Yea would like it, thanks


Here ya go . . .

View attachment UVI Augmented Piano Standard.mp3


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo (Jun 26, 2021)

CGR said:


> Here ya go . . .
> 
> View attachment UVI Augmented Piano Standard.mp3


Sounds antique but not in an unpleasant way. I like it. 😊


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo (Jun 28, 2021)

Hmm somehow I feel the Augmented is not really for me, maybe a tad too old, and not sure if would ever use the preparations. Anyone has a recommendation for maybe a Fazioli? I always liked Yamahas, maybe because of some Japanese games or movies, where there is more overall brightness (but sweetness).


----------



## sostenuto (Jun 28, 2021)

CGR said:


> Here ya go . . .
> 
> View attachment UVI Augmented Piano Standard.mp3


Thanks for frequent help with these examples ! 
This one reminds of Chief Irving's (_Bosch TV serie_s) home grand, seemingly regulated/tuned to not sound too pricey for his pay-grade.


----------



## Alchemedia (Jun 28, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Hmm somehow I feel the Augmented is not really for me, maybe a tad too old, and not sure if would ever use the preparations.


Augmented's Pleyel is very nice. Makes me feel like I'm channeling Chopin.


----------



## CGR (Jun 28, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> . . . .Anyone has a recommendation for maybe a Fazioli? . . .


I just picked up a copy of Audio Brewers Pianoforte. A Fazioli F212 (same size as a Steinway B). It's a very full and warm tone, and so far I'm very impressed. Very deep sampling & scripting. I'll need to put in some serious hours with this one to explore all the possibilities of shaping the sound.

It can be pushed into some very unusual and interesting sound design areas, but the core piano sampling quality and dynamics is superb. Here's VI Control's very own Rabih @keepitsimple running the raw mic set through it's paces  :


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## keepitsimple (Jun 29, 2021)

CGR said:


> I just picked up a copy of Audio Brewers Pianoforte. A Fazioli F212 (same size as a Steinway B). It's a very full and warm tone, and so far I'm very impressed. Very deep sampling & scripting. I'll need to put in some serious hours with this one to explore all the possibilities of shaping the sound.
> 
> It can be pushed into some very unusual and interesting sound design areas, but the core piano sampling quality and dynamics is superb. Here's VI Control's very own Rabih @keepitsimple running the raw mic set through it's paces  :



Congrats. PM me if you need any tips with the settings 🎹


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## doctoremmet (Jun 29, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> I always liked Yamahas, maybe because of some Japanese games or movies, where there is more overall brightness (but sweetness).


Snooby, I like Yamahas too. My upright is a Yamaha. And as far as samples are concerned I use 8Dio’s 1985 Passionate a lot - which is a C5 (one that is not overly bright, and is also very capable of doing “quote / unquote” ‘cinematic’). I also recommend Xperimenta Project’s Due, especially the C3 that comes with that library. Of course you may already be familiar with all of those, I didn’t keep track


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Jun 30, 2021)

So much to choose from, i feel like falling in love every day again. A welcome but exhausting situation 

I think im set in terms of "cinematic" piano with the Cinepiano, that seems really to cut through the mix and sounds
more in harmony with other instruments than the Ivory Grands II that i used for a long time. From the 3 Ivories, i used the Yamaha the most, because of its overall brightness and easier integration in a mix. But when i listen to it now (after listening to other Libraries), it sounds just...well, unpleasant, somehow cheap and thin in direct comparison, but i know its an old lib that i heard way too long. With Cinepiano, it almost sounds like they added a layer of a Hangdrum on the higher registers...just a lovely (enhanced) timbre.

_Recently i played a bit on an upright Seiler and loved its tone, had also that certain sweetness that i miss on others._
_On the other hand, theres this old grand Förster where i am sometimes..that thing is a tank, in terms of dimensions_
_and sound. Rich and deep like a mossy cave, but nowhere sweet ( it can smile, if you force it). That thing would drown everything else in a mix, and i was suprised when i saw that (after i recently upgraded to Kontakt Full), that there is a sampled Förster included (the characteristic tone is at least there, nice)._

I feel that Cinepiano is a good choice for not only cinematic stuff, but accompanies other instruments easier than
certain "colored" / character pianos. But doesnt fit that much for me for playing it solo for hours. It never sounds fatiguing, it just not that expressive (plus i have a hard time adjusting its vel. for my Roland A88MK2).

Is there a way to overcome the drug of buying more and more libraries? Better continue to look out for the right one....?


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## doctoremmet (Jun 30, 2021)

Know the feeling


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Jul 8, 2021)

Im still tempted by the Augmented. Are the recordings clean (no strange artifacts, like build up noise or uneven levels)?
Do the layers have a good playability?


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## CGR (Jul 9, 2021)

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Im still tempted by the Augmented. Are the recordings clean (no strange artifacts, like build up noise or uneven levels)?
> Do the layers have a good playability?


Yes - clean samples, evenly sampled and good playability. It is an old smaller grand though so don't expect it to knock you over with power. The playability, tone and expression achieved by Louis Couka in the first section of this video is true to my experience. Important that you have a good controller and can play well . . . like me and Louis


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## doctoremmet (Jul 9, 2021)

CGR said:


> Important that you have a good controller and can play well . . . like me and Louis


Louis knocking it out of the park here! Craig also ain’t no slouch!


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Jul 9, 2021)

CGR said:


> Yes - clean samples, evenly sampled and good playability. It is an old smaller grand though so don't expect it to knock you over with power. The playability, tone and expression achieved by Louis Couka in the first section of this video is true to my experience. Important that you have a good controller and can play well . . . like me and Louis



Thanks, the gas deepened.


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## anderslink (Jul 11, 2021)

I was interested in the Garritan CFX and came across this very extensive comparison of some major pianos from Sweetwater: https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/virtual-piano-shootout-sound-samples/

I'm an owner of Keyscape I wanted to know how it compared to the rest - especially the Garritan CFX. I also own Waves Grand Rhapsody.

I downloaded the files and looked at them as little as possible. I renamed each file, saved a key to identify them later, and did a blind testing of each of the 3 folders (3 compositions). I went through and labeled which ones I really liked, felt neutral about, or found something annoying / fake / uninspiring about it.

Even though Sweetwater says they all have their advantages, there were some really awful ones in here. Like I said - I own Grand Rhapsody - and now I definitely know why I have never and will never use it even if it cost $20 or something. I picked it as a dislike for every single composition. It sounds robotic, fake, overly bright, uninspiring etc.

Keyscape did shockingly well. Way better than I thought. I picked it as my favorite for the jazz composition - which was my favorite tone of anything in the whole test. I picked the classical or mellow presets for other compositions too. The only one I didn't like was the keyscape classical preset for the E Min jam because it was too muddy, but then I really liked the mellow one instead for that same composition.

The only other pianos I liked were the NI Grandeur and galaxy 1929 baby grand but when I listened to them in comparison to the Keyscape one more time they really weren't as great.

The Garritan CFX was neutral for all 3 tests. So definitely not worth buying for me personally. But I didn't dislike it on anything. I actually thought Alicias Keys was the Garritan on one because there was so much room but it wasn't... Sweetwater may have made an error with that specific Alicias Keys one by leaving too much reverb on...

My other favorite pianos in order are: cinesamples abbey road uprights, spitfire's free soft piano, spitfire's olafur arnalds felt piano, spitfire's new jangle box piano, cinesamples piano in blue, and then fracture sounds pianos.


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## sostenuto (Jul 11, 2021)

Cool ! Currently choosing _ Piano in Blue / CinePiano. 
Pleased with Walker 1955 Concert D _ _with layered Mics per *CGR*_. 

Garritan is close. IS - Ebony Basic: now evaluating, but feel move to Pro will be needed. 

Pianoforte soon _ 'my truly bad' for passing on Intro (included Ambisonics). 
Did not consider using with Waves - NX + Head Tracker until too late !


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## CeDur (Jul 11, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Pianoforte soon _ 'my truly bad' for passing on Intro (included Ambisonics).
> Did not consider using with Waves - NX + Head Tracker until too late !


If you are after Ambisonics, it's included also in Production Voices Concert Grand. I'm not sure how it's different from Pianoforte implementation, because I bought only Stereo mics, but my experience with Production Voices one is, well, interesting


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## Mike Fox (Jul 11, 2021)

Ever since i upgraded to the Complete version of the Fazioli from Imperfect Samples, I haven’t been able to touch any other piano library. They all sound like toys now.


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## sostenuto (Jul 11, 2021)

CeDur said:


> If you are after Ambisonics, it's included also in Production Voices Concert Grand. I'm not sure how it's different from Pianoforte implementation, because I bought only Stereo mics, but my experience with Production Voices one is, well, interesting


THX for reminding. Had reviewed PV earlier, but was not yet considering Ambisonics. No doubt Concert Grand is impressive. Too bad Production Grand (C7) is not Ambisonics as well. Would help diversify acoustic instrument sources. 

Regards


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## sostenuto (Jul 11, 2021)

Mike Fox said:


> Ever since i upgraded to the Complete version of the Fazioli from Imperfect Samples, I haven’t been able to touch any other piano library. They all sound like toys now.


Important to note, since perhaps Pro will not get me where I hope to be. Fortunately, not major price penalty to go one step up at a time. Need to carefully 're-review' Mic /other differences. 

THX!


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## Mike Fox (Jul 11, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Important to note, since perhaps Pro will not get me where I hope to be. Fortunately, not major price penalty to go one step up at a time. Need to carefully 're-review' Mic /other differences.
> 
> THX!


You can actually get pretty far with even the Basic version, but those other mics make a huge difference!

So yeah, a step up at time will do the trick.


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## Negan_n_Lucille (Jul 11, 2021)

Depends on what you’re looking for. Love the 8Dio 1969 piano for softer and more dramatic pieces. Garritan and CSP are my other go-it’s.


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## Marcster (Mar 26, 2022)

musicisum said:


> Nice choice. My personal favorite: V_ivid Keys_, running on the free sine player, if you don't have Kontakt full.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Vivid Keys is nice. For the price, you get 12 dynamic layers, close mic, ambient mic, and the "pad" mic.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Mar 28, 2022)

Had to get Noire lately, and love it. 
Clean, no artifacts and great playability.
A bit low on output maybe, but no problem at all.


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