# Composing for a string quartet - Looking for advise



## Boberg (Mar 14, 2017)

Hi, 

I will be composing for a string quarter in a few weeks, that will perform and record my music in mid may. I've never composed for real string players before (just used VIs) and am therefore looking to learn more about how to write for them. 

I would be very thankful if someone could give me some tips regarding sources where I can learn more about writing for strings, and quartets/quintets in particular. I will have the players available to me at times while composing, so they will be able to give me feedback as well, but I would obviously prefer to make their work as easy as possible. 

Any help or tips is appreciated! 


John


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## DocMidi657 (Mar 14, 2017)

Hi John,
My advice would be to not worry about it. Or let me put it this way, I see alot of composers on forums anguish with the "oh no I am writing for live string players" with samples. You know what my experience has been and I have done this a bunch, I turn on the sequencer, I play in the parts for the four string players or whatever the instrumentation is, then tweak what does not sound good to my ear still in sequencer land, export it into Finale and make it look pretty and easy to read, export an MP3 and send them the chart and the MP3 so they can listen to it and prep, then we either do the performance or the session and it works out just fine. I don't get all caught up in what strings they need to play on or bowing or any of that stuff. You hand the music to good players and let them interpret it based on the MP3 they listened to and your chart and let them decide the bowing etc and every time with really good players it's been really good. They sometimes make some suggestions and that's actually very cool. The client or the audience is happy , the players are happy, I'm happy. It's a great time to be a composer with the technolgy we have and it's not as a big of a deal as folks make of it. My rule is this....If it sounds good in your sequencer good competent live string players will only make it sound even better.


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## Peter Cavallo (Mar 14, 2017)

Hi John,

I've been doing a bit of string writing of late (not a professional orchestrator by any means) and I have found via my teacher that there are a few things to consider when writing for strings, especially a quartet. When I first showed him my scores he immediately started asking how is this to be played and to my shock was informing me how he would interpret it which was not what I wanted it to sound like. So, firstly expression is an important aspect and I'm not taking just _mp_, _p_, or _f_. I needed to tell the player how I hear it sounding - '_espressivo_' or '_dolce_' etc. The trouble with sample libraries is the expression is pre-baked so we tend to forget that when a real player comes around. Also, dynamic markings informing the player when to rise and fall in and out of notes or phrases. Lastly, bowing. Bowing is important because it will tell the player how the phrase is to be played in one bow stroke or one bow stroke per note, using one of the many types of bowings - detache, legato, staccato etc.

Like I said I'm no professional but these are some of the things I have been learning about. I hope it helps. I'm sure others can add to this.


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## JT (Mar 14, 2017)

John, 

Forget about bowing, if you're not a string player, there's no way for you to know how to do this. But, you should put in phrase marks (slurs), to help them interpret your music. As mentioned above, dynamics, hairpins (cresc. & decresc.) accents, marcatos, tenuto, staccato, etc.... If you don't know the Italian term for something, write it in English. Write something that fits the ensemble. It'll never sound epic, but it can sound delicate, emotional, tense, confused... I'd also suggest that you think about voice leading more than you would with samples. Don't just look at the vertical harmonic structure, follow the individual parts horizontally as well. Make sure they make sense.

Good luck,
JT


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## Rodney Money (Mar 14, 2017)

If you are writing true string quartet music make sure everyone has great parts. Try to avoid constant use of: violin melody, everyone else accompaniment with occasional cello feature thrown in.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 14, 2017)

A teacher once raked me over the coals for a piece I wrote because it didn't use enough different techniques (articulations). That doesn't mean use tremolo, pizz, etc. all the time, it means don't use all long bows from beginning to end.


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## Rodney Money (Mar 14, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> A teacher once raked me over the coals for a piece I wrote because it didn't use enough different techniques (articulations). That doesn't mean use tremolo, pizz, etc. all the time, it means don't use all long bows from beginning to end.


My teacher's idea of a good piece was basically taking any instrument and writing every extended technique you could think of for 6 minutes. That type of sound now reminds me of just playing around with an effects patch from a cinematic synth library, lol.

He would've loved Spitfire's LCS. Actually, he didn't care for any sample based on a real instrument...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 14, 2017)

In this case he was right - I was boring! Just using effects for no reason isn't good either.


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## Rodney Money (Mar 14, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> In this case he was right - I was boring! Just using effects for no reason isn't good either.


He had me once play as high as I could on the trumpet with tinfoil over the bell... it was kind of fun, but I'm still wondering the musicality of it to this day, lol.


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## FredericBernard (Mar 14, 2017)

Boberg,

which session length did you book? I had a few live orchestra sessions already . Always big fun, but it's simply incredible how fast those few minutes go away! So it's important that not you, but also your music should be prepared properly.

A bit more of advice:
-String players are very versaitle, with a huge scope of different techniques. I wouldn't say you should use them all in just one piece, but alternation can make your music much more interesting and appealing. Take a look at the basic articulation and playing styles, just like arco, pizzicato, tremolo or trills. Also check out terms like spiccato, détaché or ricochet. Maybe take even a look at some of the more special techniques like sul ponticello, sul tasto, flageolets, glissando or even col legno - really there's a lot of different stuff they can do, with just four strings and a bow!
-Get a look at string quartets at imslp, there are just douzens of it. Basically it's just plain four part voice writing.
-Get to know the basic voicing styles. Juxta is the most common one, but even enclosure can sound interestingly different at times.
http://clt.astate.edu/tcrist/orch/misc/scoringchordsfororch.pdf
-String quartet writing is quite a bit different to string orchestra writing, as you can't use divisi. Also, obviously you don't have any bass (-section). Also, in string quartet writing voice crossing (so like a viola which plays above the violins II, opposed to its actuall hierachic position) is used reasonably more.
-As told before, be very exact with dynamics, just because they are so crucial. If writing dynamics, don't go beyond the ppp (quitest) - fff (loudest) range - even fff and ppp can seem a bit "desperate at some time", so use these extreme dynamics wisely, if at all.
-How exactly you set the slurs is crucial for string arrangements, just as it will give the players a lot of information about the bowing. If the slurs aren't done wisely the players will most likely try their own bowings and that may cost you quite some session time.
Check out a tutorial I wrote about how to properly apply slurs:
http://fredericbernardmusic.com/wp-...d-Composition-Lesson-I-How-To-Legato-v7-1.pdf
-Proof-reading is also an quite important aspect. Always check for logically applied enharmonic notes etc., for instance don't build a D-major chord with D - Gb (ouch!) - A, by accident and so on. (I'm afraid this info is most likely a bit redundant, but you can actually ran fast in such errors, especially if you don't set the notes manually in your engraving software, but instead play the notes with a midi keyboard)
-Unless you want to write in very old style, you can just forget about all the rules like "forbidden fiths" or "forbidden octaves" - do whatever sounds good to you.


JT said:


> John,
> 
> Forget about bowing, if you're not a string player, there's no way for you to know how to do this. But, you should put in phrase marks (slurs), to help them interpret your music. As mentioned above, dynamics, hairpins (cresc. & decresc.) accents, marcatos, tenuto, staccato, etc.... If you don't know the Italian term for something, write it in English. Write something that fits the ensemble. It'll never sound epic, but it can sound delicate, emotional, tense, confused... I'd also suggest that you think about voice leading more than you would with samples. Don't just look at the vertical harmonic structure, follow the individual parts horizontally as well. Make sure they make sense.
> 
> ...


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## Christof (Mar 15, 2017)

You should study and learn everything about strings and their limitations/possibilities.

I have played and recorded so many pieces by composers who only know their midi keyboard but actually have no idea how to write for a string player.
Some examples:
A string player needs some time to switch from arco to pizzicato and back.
Make sure to write in the proper clef in the cello, this can be very tricky, a cellist reads bass, tenor and treble clef.
Some parts sound great in a midi mockup but that doesn't mean that a real string player can do it.Make sure not to break the technical limitations of a string instrument.
The best way to learn is to study string quartet scores.


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## Hannes_F (Mar 15, 2017)

Lots of good advice already in this thread. An addition from my point of view as a player who often records new music for composers:

I have found it helpful if composers use normal language for describing the *emotional content* of the track to me, especially for film music or games. If there is a scene that you have in mind then don't shy away from describing it with your words, it helps.

If you use differentiated language, then all the better. If you want to say "it should be dripping from emotion" then this is very broad and abstract. Instead perhaps specify which emotion or mood you mean. For example if the scene is about "love", then there is a scale from adoration, enthusiasm, motherly love, companionship, partnership, drive, lust and so on, all different shades and moods. If the scene is about "being in motion", then it could be about setting out, traveling, anticipating the arrival, chasing, fleeing, driving, flying, sailing, train, excitement, boredom, travel nerves, travel lust ...

Music can be the language of emotions. In 9 of 10 cases you will want to use it exactly as that. Especially for film music where the music often transports what happens inside of protagonists in contrast to the visible. A little description about what the scene is about can help more than lots of markings, bowing symbols and all the technical stuff (at least that is the case for me).

And it will show in the end result. You can hear in the recording whether the musicians have an idea about what the music is supposed to be about and _empathically feel it_ or if they just technically 'deliver the notes'.

.
.
.

A word of warning though: In the world of academic composing they frown upon using verbal language for the emotional content of music and try to do it all per sheet notation. They use seemingly compelling dogmas like "talking about music is like dancing about architecture".

This 'dancing about architecture' saying makes a good punchline, and it is valid for 'absolute music', 'music for itself' ... but only there. Objectively that comparision is misleading for music in conjunction with any scene or event, or anything where a director could be involved (they work with words, right?). This is why we indeed talk about music, and we do it all the time. So if you are working for media, theatre, games etc. then it is very well possible to describe moods and emotions quite differentiated with written or spoken language. What music then can do on top is to make the listener _feel _the mood, not only understand it.


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## Parsifal666 (Mar 15, 2017)

DocMidi657 said:


> Hi John,
> My advice would be to not worry about it. Or let me put it this way, I see alot of composers on forums anguish with the "oh no I am writing for live string players" with samples. You know what my experience has been and I have done this a bunch, I turn on the sequencer, I play in the parts for the four string players or whatever the instrumentation is, then tweak what does not sound good to my ear still in sequencer land, export it into Finale and make it look pretty and easy to read, export an MP3 and send them the chart and the MP3 so they can listen to it and prep, then we either do the performance or the session and it works out just fine. I don't get all caught up in what strings they need to play on or bowing or any of that stuff. You hand the music to good players and let them interpret it based on the MP3 they listened to and your chart and let them decide the bowing etc and every time with really good players it's been really good. They sometimes make some suggestions and that's actually very cool. The client or the audience is happy , the players are happy, I'm happy. It's a great time to be a composer with the technolgy we have and it's not as a big of a deal as folks make of it. My rule is this....If it sounds good in your sequencer good competent live string players will only make it sound even better.



This is me. I both Finale/mp3 the piece as well as send my Cubase mockup and send it to the performers, with dynamics outlined and plenty of room for interpretation according to their individual styles. If I don't like something they're doing, it comes up. 9 times out of 10 it's better than how I imagined it.


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## Boberg (Mar 15, 2017)

Amazing advice from all of you. Thank you all very much! 

As some were wondering what type of piece I am looking to create, it will be a quite slow paced filmic piece. I'll be looking for a quite similar feeling as in the first section of the Kronos piece linked above. 

If anyone has any tips on how to achieve a quite "raw" or "cold" feeling (i.e. specific articulations), feel free to chime in.

Anyhow, I'll make sure to go through the great information from you and look up as much as I can in advance. Then I'll make a MIDI mockup and work closely with my players. They are students at my school, so I can see them now and then and get feedback, which should be very helpful.


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## Dave Connor (Mar 15, 2017)

On one hand (you could study) the Beethoven Quartets which are some of the most masterful constructions in all of known music. On the other the Ligeti quartets which are stunning works in a beautiful modern language.

With Beethoven you can observe the overall texture (chordal/polyphonic or going between the two) as well as the function of each instrument (whether it is in accompaniment, playing a motif or whatever.) Similar with the Ligeti of course but a different animal really.

So, if you assign your instruments in the way Beethoven did you are practically guaranteed a successful, working texture as long as the writing is relatively sound and not collapsing due to faulty musical construction (i.e. wouldn't work if played on piano or anything due to structural weaknesses: too much parallelism in octaves and fifths and generally poor resonance in the vertical or horizontal planes.)

So steal a texture you like and put in your own music. Just like a Big Band chart has proven, workable voicings and textures which one would borrow for an authentic idiomatic sound.


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## Rohann (Mar 16, 2017)

Thanks all, another gold mine here.


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## JBW (Mar 17, 2017)

Sounds like a good opportunity! Be sure to bring the players in on the development phase. They will likely be immensely helpful for you. Plenty of good suggestions here already. In case it wasn't mentioned already... Do mark in your ideas for tempo fluxuation (this seems to be often overlooked when midi-composing). And please, do the right thing and give each part more than just donuts and shivers (whole notes or trem) and the players will be grateful. In general, it's usually a good idea to keep the players awake while they are playing. 

It is amazing to me how some composers got to the point of truly knowing how to write so incredibly well for each instrument/section. Mahler comes to mind... They weren't born knowing how to do it. So, make the most of this musical adventure! Have fun!


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