# Zimmer's Inception



## choc0thrax

http://www.amazon.com/Inception-Hans-Zimmer/dp/B003ODL004/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1277979082&sr=8-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Inception-Hans-Zi ... 082&amp;sr=8-2)

short clips are up.


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## midphase

Should we care?


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## choc0thrax

I dunno, I assume fans of Hans Zimmer don't mind hearing new clips from an upcoming score of his.


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## midphase

I guess what I was asking is what do you think about it? Do you like it?


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## choc0thrax

I think it sounds okay. Hard to judge from the small clips. I do know that once I see the film I will like the music more.


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## lux

the fact i cant recognize movie screenshots choco puts as his own avatars makes me feel the most dull ignorant guy in the world. Not a nice feeling at all..


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## stonzthro

Inconceivable!


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## choc0thrax

lux @ Thu Jul 01 said:


> the fact i cant recognize movie screenshots choco puts as his own avatars makes me feel the most dull ignorant guy in the world. Not a nice feeling at all..



stonzthro knows what it is. 8) http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/princess_bride/

Lux, what do you think of the Inception clips?


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## synthetic

I think Hans is the best at this kind of sound design score right now. Johnny Mars plays guitar all over this score BTW.


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## midphase

"stonzthro knows what it is. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/princess_bride/"

That's kind of a vintage look for you!


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## dinerdog

I kind of like the music in the Inception Trailer #3, but it isn't Zimmer, it's someone named Zack Hemsey. A track of his called "Mind Heist"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziixLbLKBXU


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## choc0thrax

Here's that track apart from the trailer if anyone cares. 8) 

http://music.zackhemsey.com/track/mind-heist


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## lux

choc0thrax @ Thu Jul 01 said:


> lux @ Thu Jul 01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the fact i cant recognize movie screenshots choco puts as his own avatars makes me feel the most dull ignorant guy in the world. Not a nice feeling at all..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stonzthro knows what it is. 8) http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/princess_bride/
> 
> Lux, what do you think of the Inception clips?
Click to expand...


I liked best the Mombasa clip. I would love a score with that style and mood. 

You know, i find Zimmer style oriented to some kind of "always on tutti" writing, where most of instruments collaborate on the same theme to make it thick. That leads him to state a very few melodies for every cue, like working on a simple concepts and crafting it to death to make it big and fat. Thats his personal style and he's also pretty recognizable from the others for that. I personally find that he gets lot of points to my ears when he adds synths which i perceive as part of his real DNA.


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## Narval

whoa thats the Juno girl and then there's the Piaf girl. Who's this Di something italian guy, he looks a bit like Jack Nicholson...

(loved the looks of this movie btw)


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## dinerdog

gsilbers - I think that's the Zack Hemsey track. Prominent horn at :25 and on and off. Especially 1:56.

At this point (from what I've heard on Amazon) it'll be hard for the score to be as memorable as the trailer. Perhaps that's just a testament to an incredibly well done trailer with a lot of airplay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziixLbLKBXU


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## gsilbers

Oh, 
I think I've hear that sound before, somewhere else


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## gsilbers

josejherring @ Thu Jul 01 said:


> This score brings up and interesting question. The orchestral instruments are obviously run through some extensive processing (sat, compression, eq ect..). The question being when do you turn the corner from cool sound design to processing so much that it actually all starts to sound like a subpar recording of live instruments? I thought that he was pushing the edge on Batman Begins with this technique and this scores seems to turn it up a notch.
> 
> Trust me not passing judgment on Zimmer's score here because a) I don't know it, and b) it doesn't matter in the least bit to Zimmer and the people who hire him what I think. But just for myself curious. I'm kind of heading in the opposite direction these days. Trying to go more natural with the orchestral sounds while adding the freaky Musica Concrete stuff to enhance the vibe.
> 
> Btw the sound design in these little clips is top notch stuff. Jeez....... ups the anti on the rest of us quite a bit.




Well, IMO it depends on the film. Pirates of the caribean will be more realistic instruments as well as Sherlock ho
es because of the storyline... While batman and inception is more scifi so better to have sound designy stuff to give it a "color" sort of saying.

And IMO u get better music soun design with real instrumnt as the source and dsp'ed 
a lot. A supposed as just using synths.


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## chimuelo

Brilliant as usual, but personally I am so burnt out on Orchestral video game crescendos and the same old formulas.
This isn't meant to sound like a jealous whiner because Hans Zimmer has been a huge inspirational source of mine for many years, and the way he appeals to the box office mentality is genius.
But I always look to the leaders in the industry to move the trend along instead of the same, safe formulas.
Howard Scarr and JBowen have programmed some incredible stuff with him for his Modular synths, as well the DSP/VSTi stuff. Turn them on everynow and then.
It's almost to the point where I don't even want to go the movies because I can hear the soundtrack coming a mile away.

I actually really enjoyed Clint Eastwoods Gran Torino because the music was sparse and so refreshing.
Sorry for whining, I just always look to the leaders for new inspiration. 
Its long overdue.
The problem with the industry is how they get a theme or new video angle and run it into the ground as bad as paid air time radio.


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## AR

Here is a original track from Hans Zimmer's Inception

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TSK12Mf ... re=related

The Tracks called: 3 - Dream Is Collapsing 


My guess it's the main motiv for this film


Greets
AR


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## Ned Bouhalassa

I'm betting there's plenty of Zebra and CS-80 synthesizers in this one - looking forward! BTW, FWIW, I like his work in the current century more than that of the last.


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## dcoscina

The Zack Hemsey piece "Mind Heist" is rather exciting. I thought it was Zimmer doing in a slightly different direction (sort of a Phil Glass type minimalist approach) but discovered it was this chap Hemsey. Good on him I say.

I do like some of the examples I have heard from Amazon though. Zimmer seems to have borrowed a couple pages from John Powell's book of harmonic approach which is fine with me. The movie looks really good which is a rarity these days. most trailers seem to be pumped up quick cut loud essays on marketing strategy and put me off. This trailer reminds me of when there was an art to condensing a film to attract viewers. Well done trailer.


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## dcoscina

One other thing- I get the sense of a film noir type element in Zimmer's score with those long minor7th and min9th sustained chords like John Barry's seminal work from the '70s. I think that's cool. Could this score give Zimmer his 2nd Oscar?

Who knows, but those reviews seem very positive and most film reviewers are tone deaf over glorified couch potatoes who wouldn't know Eisenstein-montage from a Goddard tracking shot much less recognize the importance of a music score in the film. I remember Jonny Greenwood's score to There Will be BLood and James Newton Howard's SIGNS getting a lot of attention in film reviews too. This bodes well for Zimmer fans and film score fans alike methinks.


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## dcoscina

Ned Bouhalassa @ Tue Jul 06 said:


> I'm betting there's plenty of Zebra and CS-80 synthesizers in this one - looking forward! BTW, FWIW, I like his work in the current century more than that of the last.



I'm inclined to agree although I would LOVE it if Hans eschewed the bombast and layering of synths upon orchestra for a more refined sense of weight and power. I know he can do it because he's done scores like Rain Man and Thin Red Line where he has had that refinement. 

Still, he does seem to be moving into another phase of his compositional life, almost daring people to challenge him and raise his own standard. I respect that a lot.


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## choc0thrax

I'm surprised no one is talking about how Nolan didn't even let Zimmer see the film while he scored the music. Zimmer only got to see his music in the film after Nolan placed it all in.


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## Andreas Moisa

Hey ChocO,

this is remarkable of course - but this is how Zimmer works a lot, writing the music before the film is even in the edit room. We do this a lot with documentaries too, it's a different approach to film scoring but I think it's more "musical". BTW, my last track with Hannes (on our website) was for a movie but we did the music before (again - when I think about it this happens a lot these days)


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## Ned Bouhalassa

I can't count the number of times that I've witnessed some random music being dropped on a scene and 'somehow' working. I think our minds can make many random music/image meetings work which we might not think of as being 'right' for a given scene beforehand. Just don't tell anyone...

PS: Cunningham + Cage were the original free spirits!


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## Ned Bouhalassa

PPS: let's not forget Jonny Greenwood's music in TWBB also being written before the film was finished. The music editor then chopped and placed the music, and therefore deserves some of the praise.


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## choc0thrax

Yeah, no surprise there. Zimmer is basically like a loud Phillipp Glass, you can just throw down his music over anything.


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## Mike Connelly

I don't know about that. Relative merits of the music aside, I'd be shocked if a hundred years from now, people aren't still watching ANY of the movies Zimmer has scored. I'd say that the longevity of instrumental works is a bigger question mark.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Just look at history, what kind of music is remembered, lasts the longest? Mostly that which broke new ground somehow. Glass did that in the late 60s-early 70s, along with Steve Reich. Both were leaders of the minimalist movement. What will be more remembered in 100 years? The soundtracks of Gladiator and Dark Knight, or the works of a major figure of the American minimalist movement of the 60s-70s? I say the music that breaks new ground wins, and Zimmer does a lot of things well, but I wouldn't say any of his cues break new musical ground. That's not to say that Glass is still breaking new ground, but what he did with his early works 35-40 years ago is enough, IMHO.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Why do we have to wait so long for the Inception soundtrack??!! Bring it on already!! =o


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## choc0thrax

Don't worry, the internet has a way of providing soundtracks early...hehe.


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## EnTaroAdun

Ned Bouhalassa @ 2010-07-06 said:


> Except, with all respect to Hans Z and his obvious talent and determination, only Glass will be remembered 100 years from now, and not for his soundtracks. But that's another discussion...


Who is Glass?


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## Justus

EnTaroAdun @ Tue Jul 06 said:


> Ned Bouhalassa @ 2010-07-06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except, with all respect to Hans Z and his obvious talent and determination, only Glass will be remembered 100 years from now, and not for his soundtracks. But that's another discussion...
> 
> 
> 
> Who is Glass?
Click to expand...


Philip Glass:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Glass


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## Ashermusic

Whether a film composer's work will be remembered and listened to 100 years from now is irrelevant as it is its primary job to serve the film and so that fate is tied to the fate of the film.

One of the most "ground-breaking" scores I have ever heard was Jerry Fielding's score for "Straw Dogs" and it worked great with the film. However, as the film is generally regarded lukewarmly, 100 years form now it is not likely to be listened to much.

One of Goldsmith's amazing scores was for a dreadful film about tennis players called "Players." How many of you have ever even heard of it?

Composing for films and composing for concert halls, even though we call both "composing", are simply 2 different gigs and if one does not understand that, the probability of being a successful film composer is highly unlikely. Stravinsky understood that and that is why he balked at the opportunity to become a film scorer. Copland understood it and made that adjustment when writing for film, as has Glass.

Copland wrote: "There is no sense in denying the subordinate position the composer fills. After all, film music makes sense only if it helps the film and the music must be secondary in importance to the story being told on the screen."


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## germancomponist

Ashermusic @ Wed Jul 07 said:


> Whether a film composer's work will be remembered and listened to 100 years from now is irrelevant as it is its primary job to serve the film and so that fate is tied to the fate of the film.
> 
> One of the most "ground-breaking" scores I have ever heard was Jerry Fielding's score for "Straw Dogs" and it worked great with the film. However, as the film is generally regarded lukewarmly, 100 years form now it is not likely to be listened to much.
> 
> One of Goldsmith's amazing scores was for a dreadful film about tennis players called "Players." How many of you have ever even heard of it?
> 
> Composing for films and composing for concert halls, even though we call both "composing", are simply 2 different gigs and if one does not understand that, the probability of being a successful film composer is highly unlikely. Stravinsky understood that and that is why he balked at the opportunity to become a film scorer. Copland understood it and made that adjustment when writing for film, as has Glass.
> 
> Copland wrote: "There is no sense in denying the subordinate position the composer fills. After all, film music makes sense only if it helps the film and the music must be secondary in importance to the story being told on the screen."



+1


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## José Herring

I don't know if Mr. Zimmer's work will be remember 100 years from now. Who could predict that! I do know that in the here and now I wish I could get the kind of films he's getting. I close my eyes every night and dare to dream, please, please let me get the kind of films Zimmer gets.

A concert composer lives for posterity. A film composer lives to work. It's the primary reason why I chose to be the latter.


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## NYC Composer

I wonder why Zimmer is such a flash point for so many composers. Danny Elfman is equally stylized and was a little over-popular at one time, and it never seemed that he sparked all that much controversy.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

I'm not sure, but I would venture it's a combination of things, which might include some of the following:

- he adapts/uses a rock approach to orchestral soundtracks which turns off purists
- he likes and uses bombastic synthesized sounds in his work
- he's super successful
- he got lazy at some point in his career and some people don't realize that he got back on his feet and is in top form
- his music is popular, and his is one of the only names that average film-goers recognize
- we're (I'm) jealous of his gear (private samples, amazing synths)
- we're (I'm) jealous of his career, talent, drive

etc


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## José Herring

NYC Composer @ Tue Jul 06 said:


> I wonder why Zimmer is such a flash point for so many composers. Danny Elfman is equally stylized and was a little over-popular at one time, and it never seemed that he sparked all that much controversy.



Danny got a lot of flack early on and Zimmer pretty much went unscathed by the criticism. Now they've kind of reversed rolls in that regard.

Honestly Zimmer is a game changer. I think that's what people resent. Before Zimmer people kind of made little dorky midi demos and that kind of passed for OK until you got the live players in. Then Zimmer came along and his midi demos were so good and so well produced that you could practically cut the demo in to the movie and call it a final. And he passed along a lot of the knowledge to his assistants too who then ended up landing big gigs themselves. I remember hearing the demo that Jablonsky and Clay Duncan did for Transformers and I remember thinking that though slightly different in approach I can't say that adding a live orchestra and choir for the final score added all that much to the quality of music they did. The demo kicked ass and I immediately thought if I were a film maker and I heard that there's no way that these guys wouldn't get the job. 

So then a lot of his assistants started going out and kicking some major ass and everybody in town started getting scared. Many of the more traditional composers started not getting called for major projects. And, thus the game changed. No longer was everybody clamoring for that Jerry Goldsmith or John Williams orchestral sound. People started asking for that Media Ventures/Remote Control sound. 

So I think it behooves us all not to be critical but to find out what's hot about what Zimmer's doing and find out how to do it. Mr. Zimmer has actually been so forthcoming in interview after interview about his approach and what he does. I've read almost every word. Seen every youtube video I could find. I also took a small job just to hang around the back rooms of RC to learn more. 

He has a wealth of info on music production and he also has surrounded himself with a lot of top notch people. I miss hanging out at RC. I'm working now so that I can do something big enough to actually get a room over there. I hope that the movie I'm working on now kind noticed.

Well it's late and I still got work to do. 

Chiao!


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Thanks Jose for that great post! VERY inspiring, especially the part about kicking ass. I needed that today! o-[][]-o


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## Mike Connelly

I don't know why not liking Zimmer's stuff necessarily has to be "resentment" - isn't it OK just to not like music because you don't like it?


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## clarkcontrol

I have no intention of starting a flame war. I mostly agree with jose with only a couple differences. 

Zimmer's demos/synth scores ARE cheezy IMHO. I listen to Point of no Return and can't believe certain things made the final cut. Same with Africa: The Serengeti. Alot of Africa sounded like demos and the rest sounded like exact cues lifted from The Peacemaker.

Maybe the demos sounded better than everybody else and that style became desirable. I even think it sounds great under certain circumstances (Broken Arrow for instance) but the Media Ventures sound (transformers,pirates) doesn't sound like someone was writing for orchestra. This is where I stick my neck out: I'm thinking that's why the demos sound great by themselves. 

Imagine the midi mockup of a Williams cue: it would suck by comparison because it's not written for samples. Im guessing nowadays most producers/directors need a great demo to be sold on the music so...

So why do I hate synth scores? Well i don't actually. Were it not for the Movie dialogue superimposed on the soundtrack CD, Blade Runner would be one of my all-time favorites. Cutting edge sound design (lots of which got buried in the movie) that would make omnisphere owners envious.

I don't have a problem with hybrid stuff either. Harry-Gregson Williams stuff with Tony Scott is fantastic (IMHO again) and there are lots more (John Powell's Bourne stuff comes to mind)

But people like Powell, etc. write to the strengths of an orchestra when the gig uses one. Whenever Zimmer goes into "Iconic Gear" it still sounds like a guy two-fisting a Symphobia multi to be doubled by an orchestra later. 

And this is the crux: All composers repeat themselves. I have over 16 hours of John Williams in my iPod. Believe me, I hear all of his movies at some point in every score he writes. The problem with Zimmer's scores (IMHO of course) is that there is not enough veriety to begin with. So even his most celebrated work we will still hear Media Venture's cue #11 and it is glaringly obvious. With J Williams we still have repetition but it's more integrated and not clunky, like it was dropped in as-is. 

His minimalist work (Dark Knight, Da Vinci, etc.) all sound much much better though I can't say that it's terribly original. I actually attribute this shift in style to James Newton Howard (B Begins). His score for Signs is to die for. Brilliant minimalism. Incredible orchestral power facilitated by pure orchestrational chops. 

So when the two collaborated naturally you hear something between the two. And then you STILL have "iconic gear" but now it's tempered by some minimalist features. 

Guys, this is just my opinion. Plus, I really really respect Zimmer. From what I've heard he's the hardest working guy out there and I personally believe he deserves every penny and every gig he's landed.

But I can't help but think how much better his Hollywood movies would sound if they used John Williams instead. Not because JW is a better composer, but mainly because JW is a better composer for orchestra (as well as being the best at conforming to picture but that's for another debate)

Clark


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## germancomponist

+1 for Hans!


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## clarkcontrol

+1 indeed! Believe it or not, I really do like Zimmer...

I am looking forward to hearing this new work. 

Clark


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## Ashermusic

Once again, if you post criticizing an established working composer without some record of measurable accomplishment, you are no more than a horsefly nipping at a champion stallion.

Just my opinion, of course.


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## lux

who said zebra?


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## germancomponist

BTW. ...., about Zebra: Where is the big deal to use it? What can zebra do better than others?


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## clarkcontrol

Absolutely, Jay. All of what I have written above is my own opinion, though it is educated. 

Without evidence of similar accomplishment I can only be construed as a lowly critic and not a contemporary. FWIW I have done some films and ballets so I do have experience.

Without verification, however, my assertions concerning my qualifications should be ignored, in a technical sense. Furthermore it is not in my nature to be confrontational for it's own sake.

Rather I was hoping to garner some thoughtful reflection aided by the score references as examples to illustrate my point of view. 

And that's òë8   Ûi%ë8   Ûi


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## Nick Batzdorf

As long as you don't insult anyone (other than Jay Asher, of course) you can say whatever you want.


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## Narval

clarkcontrol @ Wed Jul 07 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Jul 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got an email reporting a post, but I don't see anything out of bounds.
> 
> Did I miss something juicy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was me. Sorry. It said seven people reported my rather long post above. Thank you for considering it in-bounds. Really, I thought I was careful enough to qualify all of it as just my opinion without it getting too wordy. My directness, I think, foiled my attempts to soften the language.
> 
> Clark
Click to expand...

That was an excellent post, Clark, well thought, carefully expressed, and properly balanced, if not straight objective. Too bad there's no thumbs up button, I would have gladly used it.


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## José Herring

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Jul 07 said:


> germancomponist @ 7/7/2010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW. ...., about Zebra: Where is the big deal to use it? What can zebra do better than others?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the chef d'oeuvre of an amazing programmer. But don't take my word for it - download the demo and try it yourself!
Click to expand...


Zebra is amazing sounding imo. But in terms of programming it I put it just underneath Reactor in terms of difficulty. But Zebra I think might be worth to get to know.

Also, have you tried Divine Machine's Krishna synth? It's something special for sure.

Jose


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## dcoscina

Mike Connelly @ Wed Jul 07 said:


> I don't know why not liking Zimmer's stuff necessarily has to be "resentment" - isn't it OK just to not like music because you don't like it?



+1. It's the biggest strawman argument on this forum. Some of us just prefer Williams' music or someone like John Adams' music because it just naturally appeals to us more. I don't hate Zimmer, the man. Don't even hate his music to be perfectly honest. Not anymore. I get why he does what he does. And I like parts of his style. I like his electronic music tons more than his orchestral attempts. I was listening to "A Dark Knight" from The Dark Knight and it holds together very well for its 11 minutes. I enjoy listening to it. Is it as compelling as Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celeste? Hell no. But then again, is anything by Williams? Well, closer perhaps.

I want to hear all of Inception because the film looks brilliant and the music has to be a participant in the film's success. But truthfully, I would die to hear what someone like Jonny Greenwood or Elliot Goldenthal would have done with this. Or even John Adams.


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## Nick Batzdorf

I think what Jay gets annoyed at is pissants spouting off about how [insert name of successful composer] is such a crappy musician. In my opinion he might be accused of taking that a little far, but I understand why his face gets all twitchy when that happens (think of Herbert Lom in the Pink Panther movies).

It's also true that a lot of the people here are professional, so dissing other composers is a little uncool in that context.


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## Nick Batzdorf




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## clarkcontrol

Well I am pretty uncool I'll have you know... /\~O 

And honestly my comments were a bit too direct for their own good. dcoscina very much speaks my mind in his post directly above and spares you the itemized critique.

And thanks Narval and Nick for the kind words.

Clark


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## José Herring

@ Clarkcontrol,

I personally look at it from a practical creative viewpoint. I know that when I got to use a lot of live instruments I was definitely leaning in the John Williams Jerry Goldsmith direction. But, these days I'm using a lot more synth and samples and I tend to lean in a more RC direction these days because those guys are kings at getting the most out of the equipment.

I personally think that Mr. Zimmer's scores have pushed the envelop and I honestly don't think that John Williams could have done as well on films like Batman or even Kung Fu Panda. Zimmer is really king at mixing several different types of instrumentation together and making a cohesive score out of it. Guys like Harry GW and John Powell do well at mixing both worlds together and in the future when I get budgets enough to have an orchestra I'll be heading where guys like Debney, Harry and Powell have taken the art film scoring.

But, love it or hate it honestly 90% of the new film music that we hear these days wouldn't have existed had Zimmer not pioneered the path of making the most out of the creative potentialities of the composer's studio. Personally I love it even though I get a few jeers and sneers from the more traditional style composers. But I just get off these days on creative sound design. Adds a whole new color to things.

Jose


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## lux

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Jul 07 said:


> In my opinion he might be accused of taking that a little far, .



heh...

even if on a formal standpoint makes sense, honestly it sounds a bit ridicolous to me. Its more or less like chasing all Britney dissers over the net and posting about how sensitive the girl is and how bad she would feel if people talked publicy about her ass. 

I mean, its crazy to think that a successful composer or rockstar or whatever does not accept (and use more than often) people dissecting their stuff and abilities. And life. 

Its reasonable to think that way more cynic happenings cross the life of those composers, who work and fight in a market where pussies do not make it. So, dont tell me how little and tender they are, as to get such budgets you have probably to be everything but little and tender, kill (figurative) your competitors, poison their dogs, cut their cars' wheels...and bash them on vicontrol under a false avatar


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## choc0thrax

josejherring @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> But, these days I'm using a lot more synth and samples and I tend to lean in a more RC direction these days because those guys are kings at getting the most out of the equipment.



Maybe I have a terrible memory but I could've sworn that very recently you said you were heading in the opposite direction as Zimmer.

I hope everything works out for you someday Jose, you sound like a really tortured soul. :shock: 8) 

BTW before this thread goes into that whole Zimmer is the greatest blah blah let's just keep this thread sober by remembering that all film composers pale in comparison to that *John Powell* loser with his stupid traditional sounding orchestra approach. *yes there have been times when he's been forced to water himself down with the Zimmer approach* 8) Okay thank you.


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## clarkcontrol

I really do like Zimmer's music. It's fun, big, theatrical and epic.

He's just SO mainstream that I yearn to hear more variety and refinement from his orchestral work. And this makes me wonder:

How often does he see these movies temp'd with his own music, cues that are the tried and true Zimmer sound and he's told to rip it off...

He is an industry after all. They pay for him so they want the Media Ventures experience...

I'm not a cynic I swear but I'm sure it happens often. 

Clark


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## Ned Bouhalassa

FWIW, I don't think either Dark Knight or Sherlock Holmes are traditional/mainstream soundtracks at all.

Clark, perhaps you should take 20 minutes to watch this recent interview. It might change your mind a little about the man and his approach to writing for film:

http://www.firstshowing.net/2010/01/19/ ... -composer- hans-zimmer/


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## dcoscina

Honestly, if Zimmer had continued down the path he set with Rain Man and Thelma & Louise I would be fine. I'm one if those guys who don't care for the big action bombast MV style and have never warmed to it. I find much of Zimmers use of the orchestra clumbsy. That said, I also never liked Williams' use of synths so nobody is perfect..


----------



## Ashermusic

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Jul 07 said:


> I think what Jay gets annoyed at is pissants spouting off about how [insert name of successful composer] is such a crappy musician. In my opinion he might be accused of taking that a little far, but I understand why his face gets all twitchy when that happens (think of Herbert Lom in the Pink Panther movies).
> 
> It's also true that a lot of the people here are professional, so dissing other composers is a little uncool in that context.



Dreyfus? Dreyfus? You call me Dreyfus?

I am Inspector Clouseau, swine magazine editor!

And yes, professionals dissing professionals in a public forum is not cool and wannabees doing so is even less cool.


----------



## clarkcontrol

dcoscina @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> That said, I also never liked Williams' use of synths so nobody is perfect..



LMAO so true. And Rainman/Thelma were great. 

And thanks for the link, Ned. I will definitely check that out when I'm not on my iPhone. Is that where he talks about submitting hours of sound design to the director workshopping... Oh that might be the Jokers theme for Dark K. 

I love his interviews. There's one where he allows the camera to show him and his writing team (in one of the pirate sequels) talking about exotic instrumentation. Lots of composers would never do that. They would keep their team hidden from view. 

Clark


----------



## José Herring

choc0thrax @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> josejherring @ Thu Jul 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, these days I'm using a lot more synth and samples and I tend to lean in a more RC direction these days because those guys are kings at getting the most out of the equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I have a terrible memory but I could've sworn that very recently you said you were heading in the opposite direction as Zimmer.
> 
> I hope everything works out for you someday Jose, you sound like a really tortured soul. :shock: 8)
> .
Click to expand...


I have musical personality disorder.

I just started to study the score to Mozart's Requiem. Now some of my stuff is starting to sound like him too. :lol:


----------



## dcoscina

Jay, I normally don't have any problem with your posts, but the "wannabe" comment kind of irked me. What, in your opinion, is a wannabe? Someone who has never been paid for composing music? Someone who has provided services but might not be as active any longer? 

I think most of the guys on this forum are active in music to some degree and while we might not be on the Zimmer scale, it's a forum where we can discuss ideas, theory, philosophy or music and more. I think it's more belittling for a professional such as yourself to look down on those who might appear to be critical of Zimmer because of "envy" (which in many cases is not the root cause of their disdain) just because they don't actively score films. Some of us do write music for small groups or the concert hall but it seems like that still doesn't validate our position. Maybe I'm reading into this wrong...

I'm not trying to give you too hard of a time with this but since I'm one of those people who has had issues with Zimmer's MV style (less his pre-MV which I outlined already) and I don't get most of my income from music, I feel your jab was leveled at people like myself. And I take exception to that.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Jay,

While I believe your intentions are good, I don't understand who then can diss a professional on a public forum - people who are neither professionals nor amateurs, but rather people who listen but do not play? Or is absolutely no one allowed to diss a pro on a public forum?


----------



## Narval

If diss means disrespect, I fail to see that in this thread.


----------



## Ashermusic

OK, here is my take on it and I know most of you will not agree.

Professionals don't knock other professionals on a public forum because the behavior is unprofessional. Period. By themselves on the phone, over a cup of coffee, PMs, whatever, fine.

"Wannabees" are to me people who "want to be" experienced film composers and are not. Their attitude toward working pros should be "what is positive about their work that I can learn from?" And sure, they can also learn what they view as NOT to do also, but to single out the composer on a public forum is lousy and a wannabee has earned the right to do that even less than a pro. I fully understand that a wannnabee may eventually be more talented and insightful than some working pros but a little humility and respect is not a bad thing.

I was taught that when I disagreed with some more experienced and/or trained guy my question to myself should not be "Why is this guy wrong?" but "What is his greater experience and/or training telling him that I do not yet understand."

THAT is how you learn.

Please folks, spare me all the rolling eyes emoticons and "Jay that is what a forum is for" and "that's how it is nowadays" b.s., please. Liberty is not license. Because you can does not mean you should.


----------



## Mike Connelly

Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Jul 07 said:


> I think what Jay gets annoyed at is pissants spouting off about how [insert name of successful composer] is such a crappy musician.



But has that happened here? Seems like a strawman.

There's definitely a distinction between making specific critiques about what you don't like and a blanket writeoff of "XYZ sucks". But unless I missed something, seems like the stuff posted here has been the former - far worse has been said about the other posters here than about Zimmer.

I can see wanting to be absolutely politically correct in everything said in order to avoid ruffling feathers with guys you might potentially work with someday. It's just playing the game. But people can't expect that everyone behave the way they do. And it's pretty funny to see posts complaining about making detailed critiques as "unprofessional" and then resorting to name calling.


----------



## José Herring

I think Jay has made a critical distinction. 

I find that too many people mistake critique with criticism. In my mind there's a difference. Not saying that i'm perfect in that regard, but I do try and find out the how and why something is what it is rather than trying to find the bad.

Personally I think calling somebody's music on a public form "cheezy" is neither insightful or called for. I'm sure clarkcontrol wouldn't like it if HZ came on here and called his music cheezy.

I've been saving my real judgments of Inception for when I actually see the film. Judging from little clips isn't really judging at all. But from what I've heard so far there's a lot to like in this score. I really like the mixture of what I perceive to be a Herrmann style string and harmonic style with the more RC style synth and sound design. What I'm not sure of yet is perhaps for my taste there was a little too much done to the orchestra. But I'm fully willing to admit that perhaps I do too little to process the orchestra. I'm hardly even applying reverb these days. Maybe I'm listening to too much Herrmann lately. But I'm kind of liking the detailed bare naked orchestral sound that he got by just recording in a good studio with some decent vintage mics. Just listen to Citizen Cane and all I can say is that it sounds totally refreshing.


----------



## Narval

actually it's Kittyzen Cane 

:D


----------



## JohnG

I think fear creates hostility. And RC does engender fear in intimidating, hard-to-compete-with ways.

First, their demos are unbelievably cool-sounding; polished, "big," with a sheen to the recording, tons of energy if required, Hand Of God percussion where necessary, etc.; 

Second, the team approach allows almost infinite flexibility for the filmmaker -- changes are not a problem, and you can hear your score mocked up in as short a time as you need, as they can put more people on it and go quickly if necessary;

Third, the place is very cool-looking, with plenty of gear and sheen; everything about the place, the design, the security, the architecture -- it's like a full-on studio and it gives one the impression that somebody REALLY knows what he is doing; You Are In Experienced Hands Here; Your Needs Will Be Met;

Fourth, they have taken on jobs, I hear, that are well below $100,000 so they are absolutely able and willing to sweep up jobs that might make a huge difference to those trying to move from the lowest rungs into financial viability as composers; and

Finally, they are led by a charming, incredibly hard-working genius, HZ, which creates quite a juggernaut. If the guy works 80 hours a week, every week, that is tough to beat.

Put differently, if you can get all that, or most of that, plus (if you only have $50,000 for your package) the backstop of HZ's imprimatur on a young composer whom perhaps you've just met, it lowers the anxiety level and makes you feel that you will be taken care of, one way or another. They have a reputation to keep and that is evident to the customers.

Given all that it's amazing the rest of us get any work at all, and so it's not surprising that this alone would create a little heat now and then.


----------



## Ashermusic

Mike Connelly @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Jul 07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what Jay gets annoyed at is pissants spouting off about how [insert name of successful composer] is such a crappy musician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But has that happened here? Seems like a strawman.
> 
> There's definitely a distinction between making specific critiques about what you don't like and a blanket writeoff of "XYZ sucks". But unless I missed something, seems like the stuff posted here has been the former - far worse has been said about the other posters here than about Zimmer.
> 
> I can see wanting to be absolutely politically correct in everything said in order to avoid ruffling feathers with guys you might potentially work with someday. It's just playing the game. But people can't expect that everyone behave the way they do. And it's pretty funny to see posts complaining about making detailed critiques as "unprofessional" and then resorting to name calling.
Click to expand...


Straw man, huh?

"Zimmer is basically like a loud Phillipp Glass, you can just throw down his music over anything."

"he got lazy at some point in his career" 

"Zimmer's demos/synth scores ARE cheezy IMHO. I listen to Point of no Return and can't believe certain things made the final cut."

1. I called no one a name. There are folks here who are wannabees. They know who they are. If the shoe fits, etc.

2. It has nothing to do with political correctness, it has to do with respect and manners.

3. When people behave in a manner that I consider bad behavior, I am going to call them on it. If they do not like that, well, that is their problem and they are going to have to own it. I fully expect that you guys will hold me to that standard also.


----------



## Narval

whoa, such disrespectful insulting comments fully deserve the wrath of Asher >8o 

Actually Philip Glass is like a soft Hans Zimmer who never got lazy and never wrote anything cheesy. /\~O


----------



## Mike Connelly

Just curious Jay, since you're declaring other users on this forum "wannabees", would you put yourself in that category?


----------



## Ashermusic

Mike Connelly @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> Just curious Jay, since you're declaring other users on this forum "wannabees", would you put yourself in that category?



Visit my website and tell me if that description fits me.

Would I like to be MORE successful? Of course. But for the last 20 years my annual BMI royalties have been at a level that were I to disclose it I think classifies me as more than a wannabee.

And I did not declare any specific person a wannabee. They know who they are.


----------



## choc0thrax

josejherring @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> Personally I think calling somebody's music on a public form "cheezy" is neither insightful or called for. I'm sure clarkcontrol wouldn't like it if HZ came on here and called his music cheezy.



I dunno, if I were clarkcontrol and Hans Zimmer created an account here to tell me my music was cheezy I would think that's totally awesome.


----------



## lux

another avatar photo i cant recognize. This is getting annoying


----------



## lux




----------



## José Herring

lux @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> another avatar photo i cant recognize. This is getting annoying



Looks like the poster for Inception.


----------



## Ashermusic

clarkcontrol @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> choc0thrax @ Thu Jul 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> josejherring @ Thu Jul 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I think calling somebody's music on a public form "cheezy" is neither insightful or called for. I'm sure clarkcontrol wouldn't like it if HZ came on here and called his music cheezy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dunno, if I were clarkcontrol and Hans Zimmer created an account here to tell me my music was cheezy I would think that's totally awesome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely. I've had my music called everything. I don't care what you call it. Just be honest and be able to back it up. THAT'S professional
> 
> I had a reviewer accuse my music of sounding like Star Trek. I know he didn't mean it in a nice way, but it made me laugh. BTW it sounded nothing like any Star Trek music TV or filmwise.
> 
> I never said Zimmer sucks. And the cheezy comment was a bit provocative I'll admit. However, I backed it up, citing chapter and verse. I could go into much greater detail because Jay I'm trying to learn...
> 
> I'm in the process of figuring out "what is his greater experience telling him that I do not understand."
> 
> Because it frustrates me that somehow I'm missing the joke. So attack my critique please and not me (though I can handle it, I'm a big boy)
> 
> I made alot of references to his and other peoples music to compare. So let's talk about THAT. The fact that you haven't addressed my points indicates you either agree with me or are pissed that you don't but can't find arguments to support the opposing side of view.
> 
> Clark
Click to expand...


I did not ever even mention you specifically. You are only 1 of many who do this regularly here.

And no, I will not discuss a pro composer's work here with you or anyone else other than to mention a score I like or rarely one I did not like. Any comments I have to make about a composer's work will be made privately among colleagues because that is how I believe professionals should behave. So you can engage in conjecture about whether I can or cannot answer your points as you wish but I am simply not going to go there.

Now if someone phones, PMs or emails me and it is someone who has earned my respect so that I wish to engage in a discussion with him/her, that is quite a different matter.


----------



## clarkcontrol

Funny you quoted my post before I could delete...

I was going to soften the language but oh well. 

Fair enough. No one will accuse you of being critical. Except towards forum behavior. 

And maybe this isn't the place to debate the weaknesses of successful composers. I respectfully will just have to disagree on that. I would hope that this forum would take the opportunity to dissect my weaknesses were I to become so successful. Not because everybody here is jealous or anything. But because I respect each and everyones opinion here. I really do look forawrd to stimulating discourse when I log onto this site.

To debate this stuff is not being catty or stabbing people in the back. I feel that making these things public will keep us all honest so that we AVOID the petty stuff. 



Clark


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Zimmer sucks and any old fool can do what he does.


----------



## lux

josejherring @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> lux @ Thu Jul 08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> another avatar photo i cant recognize. This is getting annoying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like the poster for Inception.
Click to expand...


doh!


----------



## Ashermusic

clarkcontrol @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> Funny you quoted my post before I could delete...
> 
> I was going to soften the language but oh well.
> 
> Fair enough. No one will accuse you of being critical. Except towards forum behavior.
> 
> And maybe this isn't the place to debate the weaknesses of successful composers. I respectfully will just have to disagree on that. I would hope that this forum would take the opportunity to dissect my weaknesses were I to become so successful. Not because everybody here is jealous or anything. But because I respect each and everyones opinion here. I really do look forawrd to stimulating discourse when I log onto this site.
> 
> To debate this stuff is not being catty or stabbing people in the back. I feel that making these things public will keep us all honest so that we AVOID the petty stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Clark



I understand Clark and I am not questioning your motives. And I am sure more people here agree with you than me, which frankly, makes me sad as I still consider it bad behavior, whatever the motives.


----------



## clarkcontrol

If it makes you feel any better your words have given me pause. Like I said above, I respect everybody's opinions here and that especially includes you, Jay. 

If you followed some of my dense musings over in the harmony tricks and tips you would know I love to get under the hood. It is in my nature to question and analyse. 

I believe that it is a testament to this forum that I feel safe enough to offer my point of view no matter how out there it could be. 

Clark


----------



## Ashermusic

clarkcontrol @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> If it makes you feel any better your words have given me pause. Like I said above, I respect everybody's opinions here and that especially includes you, Jay.
> 
> If you followed some of my dense musings over in the harmony tricks and tips you would know I love to get under the hood. It is in my nature to question and analyse.
> 
> I believe that it is a testament to this forum that I feel safe enough to offer my point of view no matter how out there it could be.
> 
> Clark



If I have caused anyone here to re-think a little, yes it does make me feel better, even if they arrive back at the same conclusions.

BTW, I am starting a new thread that is tangential to some of what we are talking about.
http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=225578


----------



## PasiP

> Oscar®-winning composer Hans Zimmer and heralded guitarist Johnny Marr (The Smiths, Modest Mouse, The Cribs) will perform a special concert backed by a 20-piece orchestra Tuesday, July 13th. Immediately following the film's Los Angeles premiere, the one-time concert takes place at the official after-party on the same day as the soundtrack, Inception: Music From The Motion Picture, is released by Warner Bros. Records. The performance will stream live to fans at http://www.ustream.tv/inceptionpremiere. Proceeds from tickets sold to the Inception film premiere and after-party event will benefit the Alliance for Climate Protection.
> 
> Zimmer will sign copies of Inception: Music From The Motion Picture at Amoeba Music, 6400 W. Sunset Blvd., in Los Angeles on Thursday, July 15th, at 8 pm. A midnight screening of Inception will follow at the nearby Arclight Hollywood Cinema, 6360 W. Sunset Blvd.
> 
> The first 200 fans to purchase the Inception Soundtrack fan pack will receive a movie poster, the CD soundtrack, a guaranteed place in line to meet Zimmer at the signing, and a ticket to the midnight screening – the first official showing of the film – at the Arclight Hollywood. Packages go on sale at Amoeba for $35 beginning on July 13th at 10:30 am.
> 
> Inception, directed by Christopher Nolan (Batman Begins, The Dark Knight) and starring an international cast led by Leonardo DiCaprio, opens nationwide in theatres and IMAX on July 16th. For more information, please visit InceptionScore.com



It would be cool to see this live..


----------



## Narval

So basically they will perform the film score BEFORE the world premiere of the movie. Wow! This sends a great message out there. Kudos to Mr Zimmer for making this a part of the deal and thus making music that important!
Well played Hans! =o (and thanks Pasip for the heads up!)


Oops, got it wrong, it's AFTER the film. Anyways, great idea!


----------



## PasiP

It's a great idea indeed. I wish we had more of these type of concerts here in Finland. I would attend for sure.


----------



## Ed

dcoscina @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> Just to clarify- the strawman here isn't the criticism towards Zimmer- it is the rationale of his defenders who presume those who criticize are envious- that is the strawman. The assumption of motive, not the criticism itself.



You gotta admit, some of it is envy. Especially the well trained guys who are pissed off that someone like Zimmer, who didn't spend years and tons of money studying at a posh music conservatory learning to do music "properly", can arguably be called the most successful film composer ever. You can tell because a lot of the time they tend to make cracks about his education. Im sure there are some who just dont like it that much and dont understand why he keeps being hired, but I suspect these are in the minority.


----------



## Ed

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> Zimmer sucks and any old fool can do what he does.



Totally, I just have to mash my hands on the keyboard with Stylus and Symphobia open and I sound just like him! :wink:


----------



## Ed

choc0thrax @ Thu Jul 08 said:


> BTW before this thread goes into that whole Zimmer is the greatest blah blah let's just keep this thread sober by remembering that all film composers pale in comparison to that *John Powell* loser with his stupid traditional sounding orchestra approach. *yes there have been times when he's been forced to water himself down with the Zimmer approach* 8) Okay thank you.



John Powell is definitely the daddy.


----------



## dcoscina

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----------



## Ashermusic

I don 't care what someone's motivations are, I care about what they do.

I am a trained composer and I resent no working composer. If they can get the job and service the film to the director/producer's satisfaction and their own, that is the name of the gig.

Am I jealous of those that have more/better work than me, especially those who I think are not so hot? Of course, I am human. Do I need to tell the world that in a public way? No.


----------



## Frederick Russ

All this said, I think John Powell is coming into his own league as far as writing chops, arranging and production values. He only works occasionally with Hans Zimmer but each time it happens its truly magic imo. I also like what happens when you combine James Newton Howard with Zimmer.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> I cannot speak for anyone else but I didn't attend any posh expensive music schools- just university



Many universities are far more posh and expensive many music music schools.


----------



## SergeD

Speaking of music is "Half remembered Dream" could be inspired from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBuVzxwi0 ?

SergeD


----------



## Ed

dcoscina @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> But at one point, most assignments were going to MV-RC and you have to admit their sound is a little generic at times. Same chord progressions, same sounds, same way of scoring a scene. I know Hollywood is formulaic but it was a bit much.



That's true, but a lot of the time I think its because they only get a ridiculously short time to score it. Like what happened with POTC1. So when the producers say they want it like Face Off, or whatever, there's not much room to be creative (like Powell in Hancock) especially when sometimes they got the job because some other composer's score was rejected.


----------



## Ed

Frederick Russ @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> I also like what happens when you combine James Newton Howard with Zimmer.



I dont know who wrote what on Kung Fu Panda, but that's a great score.

It isn't a Hans Zimmer score but ever listened to the Horton Hears a Who score? That's really fun from Powell. He's bringin trumpets back!


----------



## jamwerks

Ashermusic @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> Do I need to tell the world that in a public way? No.



You just did! :shock:


----------



## Ashermusic

jamwerks @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> Ashermusic @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do I need to tell the world that in a public way? No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just did! :shock:
Click to expand...


Yes, I guess I did! :lol: 

I should have said I don't need in a public way to say I am jealous of composer Fred Writeswhatever because he gets better work than me and I know I am a better composer.

I am however willing to say I am better than all of you :twisted:


----------



## José Herring

Ashermusic @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> jamwerks @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ashermusic @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do I need to tell the world that in a public way? No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just did! :shock:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I guess I did! :lol:
> 
> I should have said I don't need in a public way to say I am jealous of composer Fred Writeswhatever because he gets better work than me and I know I am a better composer.
> 
> I am however willing to say I am better than all of you :twisted:
Click to expand...


Lol man. 8) 

I actually think that there's something wrong with a person that doesn't think that he's the best composer that ever lived. It may not be true, but I think to keep going secretly to yourself you have to assume that you have something to offer that nobody else can touch.


----------



## Ashermusic

josejherring @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> Ashermusic @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jamwerks @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ashermusic @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do I need to tell the world that in a public way? No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just did! :shock:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I guess I did! :lol:
> 
> I should have said I don't need in a public way to say I am jealous of composer Fred Writeswhatever because he gets better work than me and I know I am a better composer.
> 
> I am however willing to say I am better than all of you :twisted:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol man. 8)
> 
> I actually think that there's something wrong with a person that doesn't think that he's the best composer that ever lived. It may not be true, but I think to keep going secretly to yourself you have to assume that you have something to offer that nobody else can touch.
Click to expand...


Oh puh-leeze

A lot of people here are REALLY going to laugh but I am actually rather humble about this. I see myself as a composer with a gift for melody who is pretty comfortable in a large number of styles. I am not an innovator, I am not bold, but I am solid, dependable, I meet my deadlines and budgets, and am easy for directors and producers to work with. And I always give it 110% of my talents and effort.

But I would never compare myself favorably to a Goldsmith, Elmer Bernstein, or a Thomas Newman.

But I wouldn't compare any of you guys to them either :twisted:


----------



## _taylor

Tough crowd...

I will be at the screening for Inception, Sunday.. followed by a Q&A with Zimmer. Could not be more excited!

I'm sure both the music and film will kick butt! Thanks Stu


----------



## José Herring

Ashermusic @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> josejherring @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ashermusic @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jamwerks @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ashermusic @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do I need to tell the world that in a public way? No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just did! :shock:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I guess I did! :lol:
> 
> I should have said I don't need in a public way to say I am jealous of composer Fred Writeswhatever because he gets better work than me and I know I am a better composer.
> 
> I am however willing to say I am better than all of you :twisted:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol man. 8)
> 
> I actually think that there's something wrong with a person that doesn't think that he's the best composer that ever lived. It may not be true, but I think to keep going secretly to yourself you have to assume that you have something to offer that nobody else can touch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh puh-leeze
> 
> A lot of people here are REALLY going to laugh but I am actually rather humble about this. I see myself as a composer with a gift for melody who is pretty comfortable in a large number of styles. I am not an innovator, I am not bold, but I am solid, dependable, I meet my deadlines and budgets, and am easy for directors and producers to work with. And I always give it 110% of my talents and effort.
> 
> But I would never compare myself favorably to a Goldsmith, Elmer Bernstein, or a Thomas Newman.
Click to expand...


Why not?

I never really make any strides in music until I try to figure out how the greats got to be great. Been studying a lot of Mozart lately and my music is improving leaps and bounds.

I say that if you never compare your music to the greats you'll never know where you are falling short or how to improve. These guys were men not Gods. And as men what they know or knew you can know too. If you want to.

But I'm an arrogant ass. :twisted:


----------



## Narval

Ed @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> Frederick Russ @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also like what happens when you combine James Newton Howard with Zimmer.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know who wrote what on Kung Fu Panda, but that's a great score.
Click to expand...

Who did what is actually pretty obvious there and speaks volumes about musicianship. 



> It isn't a Hans Zimmer score but ever listened to the Horton Hears a Who score? That's really fun from Powell. He's bringin trumpets back!


He sure is! 8) 

Yeah, great score. Bolt too. Not to mention the stunning Dragon. Among other massive qualities, Powell has a way to nail the film in a few notes. Something I've only seen at the greatest of the greatest - Herrmann, Goldsmith, and Williams. (and I'm pretty sure in few years there will be four of them. :wink: )


----------



## jamwerks

Ashermusic @ Sun Jul 11 said:


> Yes, I guess I did!...
> 
> I am however willing to say I am better than all of you


 o-[][]-o


----------



## Ed

Narval @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> Ed @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frederick Russ @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also like what happens when you combine James Newton Howard with Zimmer.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know who wrote what on Kung Fu Panda, but that's a great score.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who did what is actually pretty obvious there and speaks volumes about musicianship.
Click to expand...


So are you saying its good or bad? And are you saying its obviously Powell or obviously Zimmer?


----------



## Frederick Russ

Ed @ Sat Jul 10 said:


> Frederick Russ @ Sat Jul 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also like what happens when you combine James Newton Howard with Zimmer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know who wrote what on Kung Fu Panda, but that's a great score.
> 
> It isn't a Hans Zimmer score but ever listened to the Horton Hears a Who score? That's really fun from Powell. He's bringin trumpets back!
Click to expand...


Powell's stuff is great. His sonic values are very high along with his diverse ability to be a musical chameleon. Horton Hears a Who score is one of my favorites actually - imo getting mighty close to the same league as vintage John Debney in terms of orchestration and writing. I love that the directors seem to give Powell loose reins for a chance to explore his musicality. 

Regarding temporary composer partnerships, it seems to me that the synergy of occasionally combining musical ideas and expressions through them can be a good one if both parties in particular are 1) somewhat established in their own particular musicalities and strengths; 2) are open to new ideas; and 3) able to work together in a team effort.


----------



## schatzus

I think about it like this... The more I listen to Powell, the more I think there is nothing he can't do. It's amazing to listen to the breath of styles he masters in every film he scores.


----------



## José Herring

For a Brit he's actually turning out to be a great American composer. I love the '70's funk rock stuff he did with orchestra on Jumper. I know I'll be in the minority with the orchestral purist but I was so not expecting that kind of score for that film that it took me by surprise.


----------



## noiseboyuk

I too am curious to hear (a lot) more about how Zimmer scored this without seeing picture - looking forward to the Q&A reports! Sometimes you get lucky with images and music, but far more often it only works for X seconds before the scene veers off in one direction and the score in another. Would be VERY curious to hear what method they employed on Inception - was there an awful lot of editing? Director notes and many new versions (I suspect so)? Or is the whole "not seeing picture" thing slightly embellished?

As for Zimmer-envy (surely a recognised medical condition) - the only time it annoys me is when it seems lazy. Zimmer is the easiest / most popular target to hit. If people genuinely don't like his diverse stuff and can say why (beyond "everything sounds like he uses 64 French Horns") then that's cool. But sometimes it can be like film course students all slamming Titanic - just a way to gain easy cred points and give themselves a false sense of superiority. Of course people can perfectly reasonably dislike Titanic, but I see through many who haven't really thought through for themselves.


----------



## mjc

noiseboyuk @ Mon Jul 12 said:


> just a way to gain easy cred points and give themselves a false sense of superiority



one of best things i've heard on this forum


----------



## lux




----------



## Ed

noiseboyuk @ Mon Jul 12 said:


> I too am curious to hear (a lot) more about how Zimmer scored this without seeing picture -



Yea, to me that sounds nuts in a movie like this.


----------



## Mike Connelly

Don't get me started on Titanic...


----------



## Narval

Actually any of Buster Keaton films makes Titanic look rather smallish... Those students have studied really well made films, so they can back their views with some good arguments. Not a very good idea to rave about Titanic and Armageddon when you talk to a (former) film student.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Narval @ Mon Jul 12 said:


> Actually any of Buster Keaton films makes Titanic look rather smallish... Those students have studied really well made films, so they can back their views with some good arguments. Not a very good idea to rave about Titanic and Armageddon when you talk to a (former) film student.



Sure, but that's not the point here. Well reasoned argument is fine - but lazy pack-joining isn't. FWIW (and at the risk of derailing the thread completely) I think Titanic has both huge strengths and weaknesses, with the former outweighing the latter. If screenplay is structure - and fortunately for Mr Cameron it is - that script has a lot more going for it than is given credit for. I'm with William Goldman who praises it!


----------



## lux

i know it sounds incredible but i never saw Titanic. Not sure what i missed.


----------



## noiseboyuk

Hey, I'm gonna start a new thread on this! And here, back to Zimmer...


----------



## StrangeCat

http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2010/may/ ... rview.html

you will hear a lot of UAD in that film.


----------



## choc0thrax

http://www.scorenotes.com/interviews.html

New Zimmer interview. He talks a little about composing for Inception without having seen it.


----------



## choc0thrax

Anyone else listening to the score? A lot of it is boring but it has some cool stuff scattered around. I'm curious to see what's on screen during "Old Souls". Already got my IMAX tickets ordered for Thursday at midnight yay.


----------



## JJP

lux @ Mon Jul 12 said:


> i know it sounds incredible but i never saw Titanic. Not sure what i missed.


:shock: 
My wife and I thought we were the only ones!


----------



## Narval

choc0thrax @ Tue Jul 13 said:


> http://www.scorenotes.com/interviews.html
> 
> New Zimmer interview. He talks a little about composing for Inception without having seen it.


Hans Zimmer doesn't score movies. It's the movies that are cut to his scores. 

(Chuck Norris is green with envy.) :mrgreen:


----------



## choc0thrax

http://www.ustream.tv/inceptionpremiere

Live streaming Inception concert tonight at 11PST. So like 2 and a half hours from now or something.

EDIT: maybe it's 11pm PDT...


----------



## choc0thrax

That was a really cool concert.


----------



## Alex W

shit yeah. hot babes, the drummer had an awesome beard, I'm sure it had other nice characteristics. Oh yeah, the music was awesome.


----------



## dcoscina

I bought the score off of iTunes. Haven't given it a thorough listen but I like what I hear- at least the solemn slower material. I have always liked Zimmer's atmospheric scores and slower tempo cues. 

You know what Hans should do? Take MV-RC to the next level and do a reality show where he gets new composers per season and they all work on a film and the winner gets to work at RC. That's a great way of culling talent and giving mainstream audiences an idea of how difficult scoring films really is. And I'm sure it would be entertaining enough with Hans' humour and personality. 

Seriously, I think it would be a cool show.


----------



## Ashermusic

dcoscina @ Wed Jul 14 said:


> I bought the score off of iTunes. Haven't given it a thorough listen but I like what I hear- at least the solemn slower material. I have always liked Zimmer's atmospheric scores and slower tempo cues.
> 
> You know what Hans should do? Take MV-RC to the next level and do a reality show where he gets new composers per season and they all work on a film and the winner gets to work at RC. That's a great way of culling talent and giving mainstream audiences an idea of how difficult scoring films really is. And I'm sure it would be entertaining enough with Hans' humour and personality.
> 
> Seriously, I think it would be a cool show.



Respectfully Dave, I hope that does not happen.

I was interviewing Bruce Miller yesterday for a magazine article I am doing and one thing he mentioned is that there used to be a certain dignity to being a film scorer and respect for their work from filmmakers that in the last 20 years has mostly disappeared. I think personally this would be yet another step in that direction.

But then again, I cannot stand nor do I watch American Idol, The Apprentice, Survivor, etc.

I do however admit to loving Top Chef so I am perhaps being hypocritical here I guess.


----------



## stonzthro

dcosina - too many legal issues there - we'd actually see who writes what and who takes credit for it... :wink:


----------



## dcoscina

Well perhaps then something not so commercialized but more internships couldn't hurt IMO. I studied music in university at a time when there weren't any scoring programs available and my professors largely didn't think highly of the art.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

We Built Our Own World sounds like Herrmann with synths. Cool.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

CS-80 brass pad in the opening of Old Souls, along with amp mod version later. Shades of Vangelis.


----------



## choc0thrax

choc0thrax @ Tue Jul 13 said:


> http://www.ustream.tv/inceptionpremiere
> 
> Live streaming Inception concert tonight at 11PST. So like 2 and a half hours from now or something.
> 
> EDIT: maybe it's 11pm PDT...



For anyone who didn't get to see the concert you can click that link and then click on the arrows where it says slideshow under the video and it should play. You can skip through the red carpet stuff.


----------



## dinerdog

Talk about your epic sound. :Waiting For A Train" @7:20-8:20 >8o


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Thanks for the concert link, choc0 - loving the concert.


----------



## PasiP

I enjoyed the concert. It's always good to see Tina Guo with her cello. 8)


----------



## synthetic

Loving the soundtrack. I've listened to the CD a few times already. I'm also hearing shades of Blade Runner. Can't wait to see the film.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Sounding even better for me on the 2nd day. Very good sign!! 8)


----------



## kid-surf

I'm waiting to listen to the score until after I see the flick so that it has contextual meaning.

GO CHRIS NOLAN! FUCK 3D!!! GO ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY NOT BASED ON PREEXISTING MATERIAL. [so fucking rare these days] 

I really hope this film does well or the studio will be convinced that original ideas are dead.


----------



## choc0thrax

kid-surf @ Thu Jul 15 said:


> I'm waiting to listen to the score until after I see the flick so that it has contextual meaning.
> 
> GO CHRIS NOLAN! FUCK 3D!!! GO ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY NOT BASED ON PREEXISTING MATERIAL. [so fucking rare these days]
> 
> I really hope this film does well or the studio will be convinced that original ideas are dead.



Yes, Nolan is my hero. It's nice that there's a filmmaker out there who doesn't care for 3D and likes shooting on film. Someone who uses as much practical effects as he can and writes original stuff. 

I really hope Inception manages to do well at the box office. I'm a little conflicted though, as the film it's going up against this weekend I have personal reasons for wanting it to succeed as well.


----------



## Mike Connelly

It's not looking good for that other movie, the opening yesterday was under four million, not much more than half of what Despicable Me made yesterday. Looks like that may be Inception's biggest competition this weekend.

SA's best shot will likely be overseas, same as with Prince of Persia.


----------



## choc0thrax

Just got back from Inception. I got there over an hour early and still had trouble getting decent seats grrrr. 

It's a bit hard for me to analyze the film as I feel like I just got mind-fucked. Overall I thought it was great. It definitely has some problems, it's hard to follow and maybe the worst is all the exposition and characters explaining stuff to each other. On the other hand the action sequences were awesome and the idea behind this movie rocks. Joseph Gordon Levitt has one of the best fight scenes I've seen in a long time. I really liked all the stuff with Leo and Marion Cotillard's characters. It's also a refreshing change from all the mindless movies these days like Transformers. It's definitely risk taking filmmaking we got going on here(considering the huge budget and the general dumbness of the mass public).

So anyways, my nascent opinion for right now while still reeling from the mind-fuckage is that it was great despite it's flaws and that I will enjoy it even more on my second viewing.

The audience clapped at the end but then again so did my audience when I saw avatar so that probably counts for nothing...


----------



## dcoscina

Thanks for the mini review choco! I'm really looking forward to this. I'd rather see a film that takes risks but falls short compared to a generic safe film any day. I don't see many films in theatres any more mostly because of my disdain for people in large groups but my wife and I will be seeing this one for sure.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

I also saw it last night: great movie, on many levels! My only beef is that it felt too long for me. Even the gorgeous Zimmer slams were getting a bit much by the end. And the Bond-scenes in the snow were almost funny (Empire Strikes A View To A Kill). Still, not to be missed!


----------



## choc0thrax

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Jul 16 said:


> I also saw it last night: great movie, on many levels! My only beef is that it felt too long for me. Even the gorgeous Zimmer slams were getting a bit much by the end. And the Bond-scenes in the snow were almost funny (Empire Strikes A View To A Kill). Still, not to be missed!



Ah, did you see it at IMAX at the Paramount?


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

Yes, I was sitting right behind you the whole time. IMAX is the way to go for something like this!


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

PS: I'm having flashbacks of scenes from the film - is that normal? Or is it mainly a function of having seen a 150-minute film at midnight?


----------



## StrangeCat

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Jul 16 said:


> PS: I'm having flashbacks of scenes from the film - is that normal? Or is it mainly a function of having seen a 150-minute film at midnight?



mmm what did you take when you saw this film?


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa

You don't need anything - the film is a trip onto itself. Especially with big sound/image.


----------



## choc0thrax

Ned Bouhalassa @ Fri Jul 16 said:


> Yes, I was sitting right behind you the whole time. IMAX is the way to go for something like this!



I knew I smelled something! 

I was actually walking out of the front entrance of the paramount around 10pm to go to Chapters for a while before the movie and I saw this dude walk past who looked like you.


----------



## gsilbers

Oh man what a good movie.'

that low brass thing will be stuck in my head for a while. 


Btw... 

Not to ruin it for some but what was So hard about flyin the kids outside the US? 
U know what I'm saying? If not it's cool, better.


----------



## choc0thrax

gsilbers @ Sat Jul 17 said:


> Not to ruin it for some but what was So hard about flyin the kids outside the US?
> U know what I'm saying? If not it's cool, better.



***spoilerish?***

Probably because tearing them away from their grandparents and dropping them in some foreign country wouldn't be so great for them. Not to mention he's sort of a fugitive which would make life sucky for them...then there's also the problem of finding a way to kidnap the kids... probably better to just have some asian dude wipe away your problems with a phone call in exchange for going to sleep while racking up frequent flier miles.


----------



## gsilbers

choc0thrax @ Sat Jul 17 said:


> gsilbers @ Sat Jul 17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to ruin it for some but what was So hard about flyin the kids outside the US?
> U know what I'm saying? If not it's cool, better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ***spoilerish?***
> 
> Probably because tearing them away from their grandparents and dropping them in some foreign country wouldn't be so great for them. Not to mention he's sort of a fugitive which would make life sucky for them...then there's also the problem of finding a way to kidnap the kids... probably better to just have some asian dude wipe away your problems with a phone call in exchange for going to sleep while racking up frequent flier miles.
Click to expand...


eheheeh true. the simplest solution


----------



## RMWSound

Saw this today and loved it. Probably the most excited a movie has gotten me since Dark Knight (at least as far as blockbuster-type movies). Nolan is really on a roll.

The score was pretty good with picture. I think it fits the style, so I have no problems with it. I'm still wondering about the whole "Nolan wouldn't let Hans see picture" thing.

It's good to see a studios put money into original ideas like this (and not force 3D conversion on top of it!). Even better that it is going to pay off for them at the box office. Other studios should take note. Remakes and superhero movies aren't the only ones that can make money.


----------



## choc0thrax

RMWSound @ Sun Jul 18 said:


> Saw this today and loved it. Probably the most excited a movie has gotten me since Dark Knight (at least as far as blockbuster-type movies). Nolan is really on a roll.
> 
> The score was pretty good with picture. I think it fits the style, so I have no problems with it. I'm still wondering about the whole "Nolan wouldn't let Hans see picture" thing.
> 
> It's good to see a studios put money into original ideas like this (and not force 3D conversion on top of it!). Even better that it is going to pay off for them at the box office. Other studios should take note. Remakes and superhero movies aren't the only ones that can make money.



Unfortunately though, the only reason they let Nolan take this risk is because they need to keep him happy so he'd do Batman 3. Hopefully studios will be slightly less afraid of risks but I doubt we'll see much change.


----------



## rJames

I saw this yesterday. Was the music too loud in comparison to the dialogue or did my theater just have a problem with the center channel or something.

I could not hear the dialogue until the music stopped.

I'll just say that, "willing suspension of disbelief," is an understatement.


----------



## noiseboyuk

rJames @ Mon Jul 19 said:


> I saw this yesterday. Was the music too loud in comparison to the dialogue or did my theater just have a problem with the center channel or something.
> 
> I could not hear the dialogue until the music stopped.
> 
> I'll just say that, "willing suspension of disbelief," is an understatement.



I noticed that the music was frequently FAR louder than in most movies, but it never conflicted with dialogue imho. I actually thought it was really well mixed all round - everything sat well and had impact. Have been discussing Avatar on another thread, and I far preferred this mix to that.

Great movie - suspension of disbelief... of course. Zimmer's work was outstanding imho, quite an iconic score I'd say that we'll here ripped off many times in the future. Than main motif was incredibly effective. Only minor criticism is that I could have done with a little more silence, the odd complete break.


----------



## rJames

noiseboyuk @ Sun Jul 18 said:


> Zimmer's work was outstanding imho, quite an iconic score I'd say that we'll here ripped off many times in the future. Than main motif was incredibly effective. Only minor criticism is that I could have done with a little more silence, the odd complete break.



Yeah, not many composers who can write an effective theme in one note.


----------



## noiseboyuk

rJames @ Mon Jul 19 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Sun Jul 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zimmer's work was outstanding imho, quite an iconic score I'd say that we'll here ripped off many times in the future. Than main motif was incredibly effective. Only minor criticism is that I could have done with a little more silence, the odd complete break.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, not many composers who can write an effective theme in one note.
Click to expand...


Two chords, surely?!


----------



## dinerdog

*DORA THE EXPLORER in INCEPTION: Incepción Trailer*

Do you understand what this movies about? Me neither!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrYPJ4Yc31g


----------



## StrangeCat

*Re: DORA THE EXPLORER in INCEPTION: Incepción Trailer*



dinerdog @ Mon Jul 19 said:


> Do you understand what this movies about? Me neither!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrYPJ4Yc31g



yea Inception was pretty easy to understand.


----------



## gsilbers

*Re: DORA THE EXPLORER in INCEPTION: Incepción Trailer*



dinerdog @ Mon Jul 19 said:


> Do you understand what this movies about? Me neither!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrYPJ4Yc31g



funny!! and fast. they prob made that on the weekend!


----------



## NYC Composer

Just got home from Inception. Impressions:

1. For me, it was too constantly in your face, the movie, the score, the action, just non-stop, but instead of feeling the thrill ride effect, it just felt busy and frantic and cluttered.

2. Convoluted beyond belief.

3. Zimmer's music was full of lovely sonorities and orch/synth hybrid sounds that were HUGE, but I'm old fashioned. I miss melody. If there were themes and motifs, I missed them entirely. I know, I know. A Luddite, me.

4. Leo just plain distracts me. I don't think he's a particularly effective or natural actor, except in some wonderful boyish roles ( Basketball Diaries, Catch me if you Can, etc).

5. It's always relieving to see a movie that's not stupid. This one wasn't. It engaged myr brain on a number of levels. Effects were marvelous. The ideas appealed to me, though there was a certain Matrix meets Mission Impossible thing going on. Still, intelligent in its concept.

6. Ellen Page retains her cuteness factor, and it was great to see Handsome Bob from Rock n Rollah again! ( love dat Guy Ritchie.)

That's it!


----------



## choc0thrax

*Re: DORA THE EXPLORER in INCEPTION: Incepción Trailer*



gsilbers @ Mon Jul 19 said:


> dinerdog @ Mon Jul 19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you understand what this movies about? Me neither!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrYPJ4Yc31g
> 
> 
> 
> 
> funny!! and fast. they prob made that on the weekend!
Click to expand...


Nahh, probably made it weeks ago.


----------



## gsilbers

they do have the same background hotel that in the movie. with floating things and such. i didnt see the trailers so i dont know.


----------



## clarkcontrol

NYC Composer,

Spot on review. Spot on. 

I didn't feel that it was too convoluted (I'm not saying that YOU think it's too convoluted btw) maybe just a bit sloppy. Of course I'm holding this movie up against the more successful complicated plots out there. It really is a good movie. I did feel it borrowed too literally from matrix/MI, I felt it could have gone more towards Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and The Fountain. 

But RE: the music I totally feel the same way but also think that zimmer did a wonderful job. I felt like it combined with the sound design and the action was a sledgehammer on my brain. Some of that may be because there was little too much underscore as well. I guess my main impression is that the whole thing was a bit heavy-handed. For a 150 minute movie that's very taxing. 

Oh and Ellen page. What a pleasant surprise. I guess I'm still crushing on her...

Clark


PS I just watched that YouTube spoof. "Can you say BURRR?.....GOOOD!"

Nearly pissed myself I laughed so hard...


----------



## choc0thrax

clarkcontrol @ Tue Jul 20 said:


> Oh and Ellen page. What a pleasant surprise. I guess I'm still crushing on her...



Ellen Page was the weakest actor. She was just sort of a zombie. She is kind of attractive though... too bad she's a lesbian.


----------



## clarkcontrol

I thought she did well. Certainly good enough against dacaprio


----------



## David Story

I like Inception. Fun, thoughtful, original science fiction. Yes, it borrows from other films, but that's part of successful filmmaking. 
The CG is awesome, and the story gets pretty deep. Layers of dreams. The Dora spoof is right on too
It is a little dark and talky, I like more humor. Page could have helped there. Maybe that's Nolan's style.

Zimmer is a big producer, they like digital effects. If that's what it takes to make music audible today, what else can we do? 
Melody always comes back, seeking the next Spielberg to ask for beautiful themes. And the quiet to hear them.


----------



## choc0thrax

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVkQ0C4qDvM

Thought this was interesting.

The piece of music used in the film for the kick was replicated by Zimmer in the score just slowed down.


----------



## Lex

Loved the movie, loved the score!


aLex


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## poseur

[quote:633fa637d8="noiseboyuk @ Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:49 pm"]Zimmer's work was outstanding imho, quite an iconic score I'd say that we'll here ripped off many times iòö‡   Þ ö‡   Þ¡ö‡   Þ¢ö‡   Þ£ö‡   Þ¤ö‡   Þ¥ö‡   Þ¦ö‡   Þ§ö‡   Þ¨ö‡   Þ©ö‡   Þªö‡   Þ«ö‡   Þ¬ö‡   Þ­ö‡   Þ®ö‡   Þ¯ö‡   Þ°ö‡   Þ±ö‡   Þ²ö‡   Þ³ö‡   Þ´ö‡   Þµö‡   Þ¶ö‡   Þ·ö‡   Þ¸ö‡   Þ¹ö‡   Þºö‡   Þ»ö‡   Þ¼ö‡   Þ½ö‡   Þ¾ö‡   Þ¿ö‡   ÞÀö‡   ÞÁö‡   ÞÂö‡   ÞÃö‡   ÞÄö‡   ÞÅö‡   ÞÆö‡   ÞÇö‡   ÞÈö‡   ÞÉö‡   ÞÊö‡   ÞËö‡   ÞÌö‡   ÞÍö‡   ÞÎö‡   ÞÏö‡   ÞÐö‡   ÞÑö‡   ÞÒö‡   ÞÓö‡   ÞÔö‡   ÞÕö‡   ÞÖö‡   Þ×ö‡   ÞØö‡   ÞÙö‡   ÞÚö‡   ÞÛö‡   ÞÜö‡   ÞÝö‡   ÞÞö‡   Þßö‡   Þàö‡   Þáö‡   Þâö‡   Þãö‡   Þäö‡   Þåö‡   Þæö‡   Þçö‡   Þèö‡   Þéöˆ   Þêöˆ   Þëöˆ   Þìöˆ   Þíöˆ   Þîöˆ   Þïöˆ   Þðöˆ   Þñöˆ   Þòöˆ   Þóöˆ   Þôöˆ   Þõöˆ   Þööˆ   Þ÷öˆ   Þøöˆ   Þùöˆ   Þúöˆ   Þûöˆ   Þüöˆ   Þýöˆ   Þþöˆ   Þÿöˆ   Þ  öˆ   Þ öˆ   Þ öˆ   Þ öˆ   Þ öˆ   Þ öˆ   Þ öˆ   Þ öˆ   Þ öˆ   Þ öˆ   Þ
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## AR

I loved the movie, though want to see it one more time. I expected a little more since everybody says "uuuuh, non stop action without pause", well...gotta admit compared to From Paris With Love the action in Inception was okay...though I recognized again Nolan's hommage to Michael Mann's Heat.
I love the score - another milestone by Hans Zimmer, especially the quite and slow parts. Ellen Page was really a bad choice (why?) 1. she talks sooo lame, like she's 24h depressed 2. she's too young for her role, compared to the others 3.remember Maggie Gyllenhaal's performance in Dark Knight - way better. 
I like the non-stop wall-to-wall score. That's why everybody thinks it's a non-stop action. Since Hans did not see the film, he created another dimension of a dream within a dream. I like that. Now, ranking #3 on imdb is a little bit overrated, but definitely top 50 of all films ever.

Greets
AR


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## choc0thrax

AR @ Wed Jul 28 said:


> well...gotta admit compared to From Paris With Love the action in Inception was okay...though I recognized again Nolan's hommage to Michael Mann's Heat.



From Paris With Love is trash...including the action. 8) JGL's hotel fight scene in Inception is miles away from anything in FPWL.


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## germancomponist

Choco, what a nice avatar u use...., smile. :-D


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## choc0thrax

http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/08/03/inc ... omic-book/


Looks like Inception isn't all that original.


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## Allegra

Saw this the other night..sat through it twice!

Awesome!...a trail blazer for sure! :!: :!: :!: 

Music interwoven within the plot in perfect harmony! 

Allegra


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