# Beyerdynamic DT880, Which Version?



## Quasar (Nov 6, 2021)

I want some open or semi open headphones for mixing, and after websearching am leaning toward these. It will plug into an Arturia Audiofuse Studio, which the specs say any impedance up to 600 ohms is okay. 

The Beyerdynamic site has "DT 880 Edition" for $199 marketed for home use with a choice of "nominal impedance" (guessing 32 ohms), 250 or 600. I'm sure I neither want nor need the 600 ohms. They also have "DT 880 Pro" with 250 ohm impedance marketed for studio use for $229.

According to their site, there is no difference between the (home) Edition and the (studio) Pro except that Edition has a softer headband and a straight cable rather than coiled, but beyond that they are the same.

I've never had a higher impedance headphone before (my closed ATH-M50x is 38 ohms I think), and it works great. I've read that the higher impedance developed as a response to potential overloading in traditional high voltage studio equipment filled with tubes etc., but doesn't really matter for a modern digital humble home studio environment. OTOH, I won't need to drive it though an iPhone or anything. 

So is there any advantage to getting either the Pro or the 250 ohm version. Is their any downside to low impedance? Thanks.


​​


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## Marsen (Nov 6, 2021)

What I can say is: Common sense Beyer DT880 Pro 250 Ohm.

Higher Ohm (600) needs a stronger, professional Headphone Amp.
Pressure on headband and different (I don´t know the right word) "ear cushion", results in a bit stronger bass?
Hope this helps.


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 6, 2021)

My DT880 Pro 250 ohm have cushy earpads and a straight cable.

Low impedance makes them more easily usable on a variety of consumer products.

You'll likely want to use it constantly with headphone EQ correction.


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## lux (Nov 6, 2021)

I would go for the 32, like vitocorleone123 pointed out you can use it on several consumer devices.


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## Sunny Schramm (Nov 6, 2021)

- DT 880 "Pro" for studio work like mixing
- DT 880 "Edition" for listening to finalized/mastered music

32 Ohm for MP3-Player, Smartphones, etc. (less dynamics/resolution)
250 Ohm for standard hifi-components and audio-interfaces (good dynamics/resolution)
600 Ohm for professional components like headphone-amps (best dynamics/resolution)


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## rhizomusicosmos (Nov 6, 2021)

The higher impedance can help to smooth out issues with some headphone amps but 600 ohms starts to get a bit demanding. The 250 ohm seems to be a good compromise and they are reasonably sensitive, so I find they work with a variety of devices.

The 250 ohm version also seems to have the higher representation as far as headphone correction profiles are concerned. I use the DT880 Pro 250 (coiled cable) with Sonarworks correction straight out of an RME UFX and it gets plenty loud enough with good dynamics and little noticeable distortion.


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## Instrugramm (Nov 6, 2021)

The 600 ohm version is the only DT880 I found to be decent, the others expose the peaky treble too much imo, then again you need a pretty beefy amp to drive them properly since they're only single ended.


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## Jdiggity1 (Nov 6, 2021)

I, too, found the 600Ohm straight-cabled to be the best. I've owned a 32 Ohms version also, and it sounded so different to me I wondered if I'd received a counterfeit product.
They've made it a little confusing with all the naming conventions and changes over the years though. My 600Ohm versions were called "Premium" the two times I bought them.
Then they released a black version which sounded different to me again.

If you have a decent audio interface you won't have a problem driving the 600Ohm version. Some of the more budget options do struggle though.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Nov 6, 2021)

I personally own the Beyer 250ohm 880 Pro Studio pair, as I like the coiled cable.
I also have a pair of Beyer 250ohm 770 Pro heaphones 

Would like the 990s one day too


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## topijokinen (Nov 7, 2021)

I have the DT880 Pro 250 Ohm. Would recommend them with Sonarworks. Otherwise ok, but Sonarworks makes all the difference.


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## Simon Ravn (Nov 7, 2021)

I must say I hated the DT-880's and sent them back. Mine were the "edition 600 ohms" version but I guess the general sound is the same. They make all music sound like cr*p. Not just mine. Bought the DT-880's also because I read the bass response goes deeper than the Sennheiser 650's that I really love and rely on. I couldn't hear that at all either.


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## Illico (Nov 7, 2021)

My DT880 Pro 250 ohm (black edition) works fine with Steinberg UR22mkII


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## Quasar (Nov 7, 2021)

Thanks for the answers, varied and interesting. Now I'm back to the drawing board...

...What I do not know, since some people can (and apparently do) spend many thousands of $$$$ on cans, what the so-called "sweet spot" is in terms of price, and at what point (if any) the law of diminishing returns kicks in. With many products that range from cheap to expensive it's fairly easy to determine the sweet spot based on one's own use case (I know I don't need a Ferrari to get to the grocery store), but with headphones I do not have a clue.

Or maybe it's all diminishing returns, and the Andrew Scheps idea that the cans don't really matter as long as you really know them is all that matters. Perhaps any half-decent pair in conjunction with reference tracks & a spectral analyzer will get the job done. I'm certainly not comparing my amateur skill-set to Scheps, but the point is that if _someone_ can mix to high-end standards with $99 cans, this offers empirical proof that it can be done.


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## rhizomusicosmos (Nov 7, 2021)

@A.Dern gives her very practical and informed opinion of DT880 and HD650 headphones for VI and conducting work:


Perhaps the AKG K612 Pro may also be in your ballpark. It has a 120 Ohm impedance and, like the DT880 and HD650, good comfort:








AKG K612 Pro Studio Headphone Review - Sonarworks Blog


High comfort, natural sound, low THD, great adaptiveness make these affordable headphones a really reliable studio tool. Read the full review




www.sonarworks.com


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 7, 2021)

rhizomusicosmos said:


> @A.Dern gives her very practical and informed opinion of DT880 and HD650 headphones for VI and conducting work:
> 
> 
> Perhaps the AKG K612 Pro may also be in your ballpark. It has a 120 Ohm impedance and, like the DT880 and HD650, good comfort:
> ...



If you don’t have a narrower head and you wear glasses, I’d be surprised if any comparable Sennheiser were more comfortable than the DT880s. AKGs also tend to have higher clamping force. Aches and pains galore for me for both those brands - but not Beyerdynamic. How they sound actually matters less to me than whether I can stand to wear them longer than 30min and get anything done.

Definitely buy from somewhere you can return headphones without a big fee.


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## MartinH. (Nov 7, 2021)

Maybe take a look at the HD58x too.









Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee Headphones | Open-Back Audiophile Headphones | Drop


Headphones with history. The HD 58X uses Sennheiser’s new 150-ohm drivers, has a glossy black headband and gray metal grilles. These open-back headphones continue to please many ears at an unbeatable price.




drop.com


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## Quasar (Nov 7, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> ...How they sound actually matters less to me than whether I can stand to wear them longer than 30min and get anything done.
> 
> Definitely buy from somewhere you can return headphones without a big fee.


Good point. I completely agree that comfort isn't a "nice to have" luxury, but an absolute necessity. Even if you're ergonomically tough and can tolerate a lot of physical deprivation or distress, if they're not comfortable it's going to interfere with both the duration and the quality of the work.


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## Pier (Nov 7, 2021)

I own both the HD600 and the DT990 (which are identical to the DT880 in terms of ergonomics).

In terms of comfort I like the DT990 but I think the Sennheiser are definitely superior. My wife is extremely picky about this. She can't use the DT990 but uses the HD600 for hours.

The build quality of the DT990 are tanks. Definitely superior to the HD600.

In terms of frequency response I now recommend the HD280 Pro (2019 version) above my other headphones, specially considering the price. Except for having a shy low end (easily fixed with a bit of EQ) I think these are vastly superior sonically to either the DT990 or the HD600. Also, the low end is extremely tight and sharp. The others now sound muddy in comparison.


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## Quasar (Nov 7, 2021)

Pier said:


> I own both the HD600 and the DT990 (which are identical to the DT880 in terms of ergonomics).
> 
> In terms of comfort I like the DT990 but I think the Sennheiser are definitely superior. My wife is extremely picky about this. She can't use the DT990 but uses the HD600 for hours.
> 
> ...


Interesting, thanks. The HD280 are one of a handful of very inexpensive cans (K240, MDR-7506) that keep popping up in reference headphone discussions, which leads me to believe that they must offer something beyond their price points. I'm certain I want open backs though... 

...Scan Pro Audio hosted an interesting discussion on YT, the upshot in short being that if you get very good open back reference phones, Goodhertz Canopener software to crossfeed the L & R stereo signals & Sonarworks or Morphit-like software to calibrate the frequency response, you can actually equal or surpass the sonic environment of a world-class studio in your untreated bedroom with just headphones. The claim is that this has become technologically possible only in the past few years.

This strikes me as a rather spectacular assertion, the diametric opposite of the old axiom that one cannot properly mix or master with headphones. But if true, then suddenly a $1500+ pair of headphones and a bit more $$$ for the software doesn't seem so expensive, relatively speaking. I'm not competent to have an opinion about any of it, and my bias as a humble home dabbler has always been to avoid calibration or compensation software of any kind since it just adds another level of complexity to sorting out what I'm hearing, but instead just hear what I hear, get used to it and compare it to professionally mastered tracks in the same listening environment. Still, this stuff is fascinating as a possible approach to a home studio design, and the tech is only bound to get better:


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 7, 2021)

Yes, I use CanOpener -> Sonarworks with my DT880 Pros.


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## TrojakEW (Nov 7, 2021)

I have DT 880 pro 250 ohms. They are sturdy quality build and very comfortable but they sounds harsh and lack lover end. Just check response curve. It is easy to miss problem or overlook problem in low and sub frequencies without visual monitoring. Also not good for detecting problems in high freq range. Good for listening but not good for mixing.







2 years ago I got Magnat LZR 980 and they are nice (for me great) regarding sound and use for mixing. It is almost like they were build for imbalance detection. The worse your mix is, the worse they sounds. Build quality really sucks. I mean it is really poor and not very comfortable. But I still use them because I'm yet to find something that can replace them without using any correction software. Not for sale anymore.


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 7, 2021)

TrojakEW said:


> I have DT 880 pro 250 ohms. They are sturdy quality build and very comfortable but they sounds harsh and lack lover end. Just check response curve. It is easy to miss problem or overlook problem in low and sub frequencies without visual monitoring. Also not good for detecting problems in high freq range. Good for listening but not good for mixing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With CanOpener and Sonarworks there’s no issue at all.


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## topijokinen (Nov 8, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> With CanOpener and Sonarworks there’s no issue at all.


I can confirm. With Sonarworks HD880 are excellent headphones. I wouldnt use them without for mixing. Dont have any experience with Canopener though.

And as HD990 is also discussed here, to my knowledge HD880 is much better for mixing (with Sonarworks) although theyre supposed to be almost the same.


Also, its black friday soon, so I would guess you can get Sonarworks quite affordably then.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Nov 8, 2021)

Pier said:


> I own both the HD600 and the DT990 (which are identical to the DT880 in terms of ergonomics).
> 
> In terms of comfort I like the DT990 but I think the Sennheiser are definitely superior. My wife is extremely picky about this. She can't use the DT990 but uses the HD600 for hours.
> 
> ...


Ergonomically, yes

But I was watching a video the other day explaining that open-back headphones allow you to mix for longer sessions as they do not build up pressure in the ear like closed-back (and I would assume semi-open-back) as well.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (Nov 8, 2021)

Quasar said:


> I want some open or semi open headphones for mixing, and after websearching am leaning toward these. It will plug into an Arturia Audiofuse Studio, which the specs say any impedance up to 600 ohms is okay.
> 
> The Beyerdynamic site has "DT 880 Edition" for $199 marketed for home use with a choice of "nominal impedance" (guessing 32 ohms), 250 or 600. I'm sure I neither want nor need the 600 ohms. They also have "DT 880 Pro" with 250 ohm impedance marketed for studio use for $229.
> 
> ...


My understanding from reading and back when I was in College/University was that higher impedance headphones also offer a lower noise floor.

So the higher you go in ohms, the less background noise you have.
Of course this would require a good sound processing chain (in terms of hardware components etc.), since higher ohm is not going to be beneficial through a low-quality audio chain.


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## Pier (Nov 8, 2021)

Quasar said:


> Interesting, thanks. The HD280 are one of a handful of very inexpensive cans (K240, MDR-7506) that keep popping up in reference headphone discussions, which leads me to believe that they must offer something beyond their price points. I'm certain I want open backs though...
> 
> ...Scan Pro Audio hosted an interesting discussion on YT, the upshot in short being that if you get very good open back reference phones, Goodhertz Canopener software to crossfeed the L & R stereo signals & Sonarworks or Morphit-like software to calibrate the frequency response, you can actually equal or surpass the sonic environment of a world-class studio in your untreated bedroom with just headphones. The claim is that this has become technologically possible only in the past few years.
> 
> This strikes me as a rather spectacular assertion, the diametric opposite of the old axiom that one cannot properly mix or master with headphones. But if true, then suddenly a $1500+ pair of headphones and a bit more $$$ for the software doesn't seem so expensive, relatively speaking. I'm not competent to have an opinion about any of it, and my bias as a humble home dabbler has always been to avoid calibration or compensation software of any kind since it just adds another level of complexity to sorting out what I'm hearing, but instead just hear what I hear, get used to it and compare it to professionally mastered tracks in the same listening environment. Still, this stuff is fascinating as a possible approach to a home studio design, and the tech is only bound to get better:



Andrew Scheps has been mixing only with the MDR7506. No sonarworks, nothing.

Everyone is different though, but you might not need as much as you think.


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## Pier (Nov 8, 2021)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Ergonomically, yes
> 
> But I was watching a video the other day explaining that open-back headphones allow you to mix for longer sessions as they do not build up pressure in the ear like closed-back (and I would assume semi-open-back) as well.


Yeah this is possible.

Could you share a link to the video?


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## Quasar (Nov 9, 2021)

TrojakEW said:


> I have DT 880 pro 250 ohms. They are sturdy quality build and very comfortable but they sounds harsh and lack lover end. Just check response curve. It is easy to miss problem or overlook problem in low and sub frequencies without visual monitoring. Also not good for detecting problems


I've really gone down the rabbit hole with looking at headphones and spatial imaging concepts that past few days, and now I don't think I want the DT880 at all. All of the CanOpener/Isone/Redline Monitor etc. crossfeed and spatialization stuff isn't new, but its implications are new to me...

I really want to find a good open back solution for getting the best mix possible in cans, but the more I investigate the less I know. Just as when building a DAW computer you pretty much have to go into the gaming world to learn stuff, when looking at headphones you inevitably move into the hi-fi audiophile world, who have interests that may overlap but are not at all the same as ours.

It seems that all cans have issues, at least all that are even remotely affordable, and I've read terrible complaints even about headphones that are more expensive than I will ever consider. Everyone has opinions that vary wildly, and of course headphones and speakers are not products that can be demoed online.

Many people love, for example, their $69 K240s. They're said to be honest, sonically limited in terms of soundstaging and detail, and light on bass. But if you know this you can take it into account and deal with it. So cheap but relatively honest might be a way to go. I'm also wondering about planar vs dynamic drivers, and am considering Audeze LCD-1 or Hifiman Sundara. Or, staying open and dynamic, am considering the DT1900, Drop's Focal Elex or save money and for the pricier HD800, or, going planar, the LCD-X.

I dunno.


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 9, 2021)

Quasar said:


> I've really gone down the rabbit hole with looking at headphones and spatial imaging concepts that past few days, and now I don't think I want the DT880 at all. All of the CanOpener/Isone/Redline Monitor etc. crossfeed and spatialization stuff isn't new, but its implications are new to me...
> 
> I really want to find a good open back solution for getting the best mix possible in cans, but the more I investigate the less I know. Just as when building a DAW computer you pretty much have to go into the gaming world to learn stuff, when looking at headphones you inevitably move into the hi-fi audiophile world, who have interests that may overlap but are not at all the same as ours.
> 
> ...


Just buy come comfortable cans that sound good and can be returned without a restocking fee. Done. Your ears will adapt. Software can help.

CanOpener is useful pretty much with almost any headphones that don’t have built in crossfeed. Sonarworks or the like can be useful but not everyone needs it - if you get to know how your mix translates without it then great. 

The DT880pro with CanOpener and Sonarworks set to about 65% works great for me and also still sounds enjoyable to listen to rather than trying to flatten everything.


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## Jdiggity1 (Nov 9, 2021)

Quasar said:


> I've really gone down the rabbit hole with looking at headphones and spatial imaging concepts that past few days, and now I don't think I want the DT880 at all. All of the CanOpener/Isone/Redline Monitor etc. crossfeed and spatialization stuff isn't new, but its implications are new to me...
> 
> I really want to find a good open back solution for getting the best mix possible in cans, but the more I investigate the less I know. Just as when building a DAW computer you pretty much have to go into the gaming world to learn stuff, when looking at headphones you inevitably move into the hi-fi audiophile world, who have interests that may overlap but are not at all the same as ours.
> 
> ...


It's always a "grain of salt" situation when it comes to online feedback on this sort of thing. Not exclusive to headphones, but people generally rave the most about whatever the most expensive option is that they've bought.
For some people, ATH M50x is the best they've had, so naturally, they're great!
Admittedly, I was the same about DT880 for a while. They were better than the K240 mkii I upgraded from, and I liked them more than k702s, too. Therefore, DT880 = great!
However... I do use HD800S now, and they're the most expensive headphones I've ever bought so.... they're bloody great!!
From my progression of owning about 7 different headphone models over the years.... DT880s are possibly the most 'pleasurable' headphones I have. They are the comfiest I've used (for a boof-headed guy with glasses) and orchestral music sounds wonderful and sparkly, and their soundstage/imaging is fantastic for the price, beating a lot of fully open options, imo.
Their frequency response is 'stylistic', with a bit of scoop and added top-end sparkle. Possibly makes your mixes sound better than they actually are. I don't like using CanOpener etc. but I did use Sonarworks for a while with them, though only at 50% strength. Anything more felt like it was trying too hard to be something that it was not, and it lost its mojo.

The HD800S are in another league, but it's not obvious to everyone at first. The soundstage is fantastic, but didn't immediately feel like a big difference from my DT880s. The frequency response is more neutral and much better for translating. But the big difference is harder to describe... it's like a higher resolution. Greater accuracy, and an honesty that lets you simply trust what you're hearing with a greater deal of confidence. It's like using cheaper headphones makes your ears "squint", but with HD800S squinting isn't needed anymore. It's all just right there with 20/20 'ear vision'.
They are totally worth the investment, in my opinion. The same sort of money would only get a low-tier pair of speakers that will cause more problems than its worth.
Using anything like sonarworks or canopener with HD800S would be doing a disservice to them and yourself, imo.

From my experience with the HD800S, I could imagine the HD600s having a 'better' frequency response than the DT880s, but they wouldn't be as enjoyable for me.

EDIT: DT880 Premium 600Ohm (or edition) are still my top pick for that price.


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## Alex Fraser (Nov 9, 2021)

Quasar said:


> I've really gone down the rabbit hole with looking at headphones and spatial imaging concepts that past few days, and now I don't think I want the DT880 at all. All of the CanOpener/Isone/Redline Monitor etc. crossfeed and spatialization stuff isn't new, but its implications are new to me...
> 
> I really want to find a good open back solution for getting the best mix possible in cans, but the more I investigate the less I know. Just as when building a DAW computer you pretty much have to go into the gaming world to learn stuff, when looking at headphones you inevitably move into the hi-fi audiophile world, who have interests that may overlap but are not at all the same as ours.
> 
> ...


Haha, I feel your pain.

A while back I decided to treat my room and inevitably ended up in the acoustic forums here and elsewhere. Hours later, coming up for air, I was convinced I should never write another note of music until I'd spent a month crawling around my room with a mic and creating something called a "drop graph..."



vitocorleone123 said:


> Just buy come comfortable cans that sound good and can be returned without a restocking fee. Done. Your ears will adapt. Software can help.
> 
> CanOpener is useful pretty much with almost any headphones that don’t have built in crossfeed. Sonarworks or the like can be useful but not everyone needs it - if you get to know how your mix translates without it then great.
> 
> The DT880pro with CanOpener and Sonarworks set to about 65% works great for me and also still sounds enjoyable to listen to rather than trying to flatten everything.


I second this advice. FWIW, I use some fairly cheap Audio Technica ATX M40x's that I brought as a quick temp measure around 3/4 years back. Haven't replaced them yet..


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## rhizomusicosmos (Nov 9, 2021)

Good review of the *Hifiman Sundara* here (with measurements relative to the Harman curve):








Hifiman Sundara Review (headphone)


This is a review and detailed measurements of the Hifiman Sundara planar magnetic open back headphone. It was kindly sent to me by one of their retailers, Apos Audio and costs US $349. The Sundara looks elegant and no less so than higher up in the line from Hifiman: The cups don't swivel...




www.audiosciencereview.com





I think, however, you are going to be needing EQ for almost any headphone you buy. Perhaps look at those models that have been objectively proven to respond well to equalisation. If you can find decent measurements of a headphone, then you can try a good minimum-phase EQ in your monitoring path to make them more neutral.



vitocorleone123 said:


> CanOpener is useful pretty much with almost any headphones that don’t have built in crossfeed. Sonarworks or the like can be useful but not everyone needs it - if you get to know how your mix translates without it then great.



My opinion is actually the other way around: I believe headphone correction approaches (EQ and IR apps such as Sonarworks, etc) have greater priority over those attempting to replicate the stereo monitoring environment. What objective targets exist for the latter? They just appear to be mostly ad hoc approaches. However, I do find ambisonic and binaural processing applications for mixing in surround very appealing.


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## Quasar (Nov 9, 2021)

rhizomusicosmos said:


> Good review of the *Hifiman Sundara* here (with measurements relative to the Harman curve):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very interesting review, and about as loaded with objective, communicable information as a headphone review can be. Thank you. If anything, this leads me further toward purchasing this. (I'll probably actually read all 20 pages of the thread comments there lol.)

The question: _Do some headphone models respond better to EQ than others?_ is not one I have considered before, and it's a very good question indeed. What specific factors come into play that would allow one pair to respond well to a compensatory curve, and another one not to? My first speculation would be that boosting, particularly in the low end would be the most problematic, but I have no idea. At any rate, it's really cool to read that her massive 8db low shelf bump at 50 hz revealed a quality, vibrating sub, even at low volumes.

Alas, I have encountered rumors and rumblings of QC issues with Hifiman, which I don't know whether or not should be taken seriously. Cool site. I'm bookmarking it.


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## TrojakEW (Nov 9, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> With CanOpener and Sonarworks there’s no issue at all.


I just download trial of Sonarworks and CanOpener. Yes Sonarworks helps but using it is clunky and not to mention the price. 
So I done some tests and I created my own fix for them. Here is screen to compare using ozone Match EQ where you can see how much changes it must apply. I have set smooth for curve to zero so you can see more detailed curve for difference. Orange is Sonrworks curve. Blue curve in top one is no EQ and blue on bottom is my IR. Very close.



In regards of can opener it sounds that it just change stereo width with Mix Engineer Flat that I was able to simulate too.

I attaching IR files for anyone who want to compare them with Sonarworks or use them. I own both DT880 250 Edition and also Pro so I including both IRs. Those are only to match EQ and not to simulate Can Opener. You can use them with any convolution reverb. I prefer this way since I can use my default reverb that I use often instead another plugin. Also convolver that I use have lover CPU usage then Sonarworks plugin .


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## osterdamus (Nov 10, 2021)

topijokinen said:


> I canAlso, its black friday soon, so I would guess you can get Sonarworks quite affordably then.


On the topic of Black Friday, do you know of online outlets that have deals on headphones?


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## Tralen (Nov 10, 2021)

Quasar said:


> Good point. I completely agree that comfort isn't a "nice to have" luxury, but an absolute necessity. Even if you're ergonomically tough and can tolerate a lot of physical deprivation or distress, if they're not comfortable it's going to interfere with both the duration and the quality of the work.


I couldn't use the Pro version at all, I found the clamp really uncomfortable on my head, so I downgraded to the Studio version.


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## Tralen (Nov 10, 2021)

Shad0wLandsUK said:


> Ergonomically, yes
> 
> But I was watching a video the other day explaining that open-back headphones allow you to mix for longer sessions as they do not build up pressure in the ear like closed-back (and I would assume semi-open-back) as well.


I agree with this wholeheartedly. Working in closed-back headphones took a toll on me, I'm afraid it has aggravated my tinnitus.


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## Pier (Nov 10, 2021)

Tralen said:


> I agree with this wholeheartedly. Working in closed-back headphones took a toll on me, I'm afraid it has aggravated my tinnitus.


You know... lately my tinnitus has worsened a bit and I hadn't considered it may be because of using closed headphones for a couple of months.

I'm always super careful. I always use headphones at super low volumes, but maybe the simple fact of using closed headphones for hours every day (while coding and using synths) is enough.

Maybe I should go back to open headphones for a bit and see (or rather hear) what happens.


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## Tralen (Nov 10, 2021)

Pier said:


> You know... lately my tinnitus has worsened a bit and I hadn't considered it may be because of using closed headphones for a couple of months.
> 
> I'm always super careful. I always use headphones at super low volumes, but maybe the simple fact of using closed headphones for hours every day (while coding and using synths) is enough.
> 
> Maybe I should go back to open headphones for a bit and see (or rather hear) what happens.


I believe mine has improved since I switched to the DT880, but I've also reduced my exposure considerably.

November last year my tinnitus was terrible, to the point that I couldn't sleep, and it was at that time that I was really using closed-back phones, all day. I know this is just a correlation, but it was all that I could work with, so I purchased new phones and also reduced my mixing time.


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## Pier (Nov 10, 2021)

Tralen said:


> I believe mine has improved since I switched to the DT880, but I've also reduced my exposure considerably.
> 
> November last year my tinnitus was terrible, to the point that I couldn't sleep, and it was at that time that I was really using closed-back phones, all day. I know this is just a correlation, but it was all that I could work with, so I purchased new phones and also reduced my mixing time.


Sorry to hear about your tinnitus issues. My wife is going through something similar.

I'm glad to hear yours got better.


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## Quasar (Nov 10, 2021)

Tralen said:


> I agree with this wholeheartedly. Working in closed-back headphones took a toll on me, I'm afraid it has aggravated my tinnitus.


Sorry for your issues.

Mere correlation or no, if you think about it the sound waves in a closed back have no where to go except directly into your ear, the vibrations bouncing about in a tiny, enclosed space. This is not how we use our ears in the world, and we wouldn't have any evolutionary adaptation for accommodating this. Open backs (of similar objective quality) sound much more natural to me in every way: the soundstage, the imaging, the air, and I believe that this is for the simple reason that it is more of a natural way to listen.

IMO the only valid reasons to ever use closed backs are when you need to for practical reasons, to avoid bleed in a studio, or to not annoy the other riders on a subway, that sort of thing.

I am definitely only interested in open back for any situations that tolerate the use of them, which for me is most situations.


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## Quasar (Nov 10, 2021)

I've been reading about the Avantone Pro Planar Reference phones, which (though info is relatively sparse) seem promising except for an alleged fatal design flaw in which a thin little band that connects the headband on each side breaks extremely easily, rendering the cans unwearable...

...If I knew this could be modded I might take the plunge, maybe.


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## Pier (Nov 10, 2021)

Quasar said:


> IMO the only valid reasons to ever use closed backs are when you need to for practical reasons, to avoid bleed in a studio, or to not annoy the other riders on a subway, that sort of thing.


It's also very common to use closed headphones when tracking.

You really want to be able to hear lots of tiny details which are generally less present in open headphones.


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## Pier (Nov 10, 2021)

Pier said:


> Maybe I should go back to open headphones for a bit and see (or rather hear) what happens.


Soooo...

After the fabulous HD280 Pro I tried my DT990 and they... sound like crap lol. It's not only the shock of going from closed to open, but also the frequency response is completely off. The treble is piercing and the low end is muddy. I used to love these headphones.

I now prefer the sound of the HD600 over the DT990 but still I miss the sharp low end of the the HD280. Also my wife has been using the HD600 as her daily headphones and now I can't convince her to let them go lol.

The only option is to buy new headphones!

(hello my name is Pier and I'm a headphones addict, in case you didn't know)

After some research I've found the semi open Fostex T50RP mkIII with planar-magnetic drivers. The price is right and this in depth review is what convinced me to give them a try:









Fostex T50RP MK3 Professional Studio Headphones, Semi-Open - Reviews







www.head-fi.org





I will post my impressions in a couple of days.


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## Quasar (Nov 10, 2021)

Pier said:


> I will post my impressions in a couple of days.


Look forward to hearing them!

EDIT: They apparently also have a fully open version of about the same thing at the same price (though I still have no clue as to what "semi-open" actually means in the real world). Another model to investigate...


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## Quasar (Nov 12, 2021)

After driving myself crazy for a few days, I went ahead and bought the HD660 S. It has it's critics, just like all of them, but Amazon had it for $359 with free next day shipping, and it seems to be a tried and true quality product that a zillion people like (including mixers and producers, not just the hi-fi crowd), and I either can't afford the higher-end planars or had quality, QC or comfort concerns about the more inexpensive ones.

...It is kind of on the warm, audiophile side of things out of the box, and the bass is light, but present with some detail. I looked for a Harmon EQ adjustment on the net, and the 2nd one I found seems to work really well, improving both the low end and the general sense of neutral clarity. With that and a demo of CanOpener, I'm getting a very nice, if narrow, soundstage and excellent imaging, at least relative to other modest headphones I've had. They handle vocals phenomenally well IMO. And I can continue to check bass frequencies with the ATH M50X, too.

I've been listening to my collection of reference music that I know really well, and have decided that I like the HD660 S very much, at least on first impression. No regrets.


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## Pier (Nov 12, 2021)

Quasar said:


> It is kind of on the warm, audiophile side of things out of the box, and the bass is light, but present with some detail.


That sounds similar to the HD600. Typical Sennheiser veil with silky neutral mids, present low end but not very deep. Good soundstage but not amazing. I'm guessing you're missing the low end of the M50Xs, specially on genres with more low end.

I got my Fostex today! I will post some detailed impressions this weekend.


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## Quasar (Nov 12, 2021)

Pier said:


> That sounds similar to the HD600. Typical Sennheiser veil with silky neutral mids, present low end but not very deep. Good soundstage but not amazing. I'm guessing you're missing the low end of the M50Xs, specially on genres with more low end.
> 
> *I got my Fostex today! I will post some detailed impressions this weekend.*


Excellent! Hope they work out for you, and again, look forward to hearing your take on them.

Re the HD660 S, yes, beautifully clean & silky neutral mids for sure, and this range can be extended to a point with EQ, especially high. With the EQ I'm hearing amazingly sharp, detailed chimes & snares. You get into the low & sub bass regions though, there is a limit to what can be done. The bass is okay and definitely there, but if you try to make these phones what they are not in the low regions by artificially extending and boosting beyond a certain conservative point, they begin to distort...

...But as a package it's better than good enough to work with I think. Best cans I've ever had at least.


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## Pier (Nov 14, 2021)

@Quasar here's my review of the Fostex!






Fostex T50RP MKIII headphones review


So I got these new headphones a couple of days ago and here's my mini review. I've always wanted to try some planar headphones and for aprox only $150 and some great reviews these seemed like a no brainer. TL;DR: I love them but you absolutely need to use an EQ. Specially to reduce a peak...




vi-control.net


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## creativeforge (Dec 27, 2021)

Pier said:


> I own both the HD600 and the DT990 (which are identical to the DT880 in terms of ergonomics).
> 
> In terms of comfort I like the DT990 but I think the Sennheiser are definitely superior. My wife is extremely picky about this. She can't use the DT990 but uses the HD600 for hours.
> 
> ...



I was reading this thread as I'm hoping to find something to complement my HD600, which I sometimes find bulky to mix with for longer periods. 

Seeing your recommendation for the HD280 Pro, I looked them up, and was surprised to see a common issue reported with them. One side - often the right - may stop working if you extend the head band. It immediately became of no for me of course, but not sure if you heard or encountered of this flaw? 









Sennheiser - HD 280 Pro Closed-back Headphones


Sennheiser - HD 280 Pro Closed-back Headphones




www.long-mcquade.com


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## Pier (Dec 27, 2021)

creativeforge said:


> Seeing your recommendation for the HD280 Pro, I looked them up, and was surprised to see a common issue reported with them. One side - often the right - may stop working if you extend the head band. It immediately became of no for me of course, but not sure if you heard or encountered of this flaw?


First time I hear about this issue and I've never experienced it myself. I've used them for about a year almost daily. Some friends also bought them and so far no issues either.

Apparently it's an easy fix if it does happen though. I found this on an Amazon review:



> Upon inspection it's very clear why the pro-280s failed. Instead of running braided two conductor copper wire from the cord to each driver Sennheiser ran the cord wire to four pins, then four pins into a printed circuit board, then converter to shielded tinsel wire from the board to the drivers. The solder failed on mine where the cord wire soldered to the pin. They also engineered pinch points that were literally cutting the tinsel wire in half.
> 
> I removed the circuit board and tinsel wire and rewired with medium duty two conductor speaker wire directly to each driver. They now sound BETTER than before.


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