# Hollywood Strings Update - Preorders, etc...



## SF_Guy (Jan 8, 2010)

Check it out: http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-strings


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## Justus (Jan 8, 2010)

I wonder who would pre-order without having heard a single note...


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## choc0thrax (Jan 8, 2010)

Justus @ Fri Jan 08 said:


> I wonder who would pre-order without having heard a single note...



Idiots would...

Can't wait to hear this thing finally.


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## midphase (Jan 8, 2010)

If you'd include some of the top names in the business as idiots, then that would be accurate.

My guess is that anyone for whom $1500 is not worth even thinking about would. If my last name was Elfman, or Zimmer, or Howard, I would probably have an open account with East West and just tell them to send me everything that comes down the assembly line the moment it's available.

So yeah, I bet there's a lot of wealthy guys who will preorder without hearing a single note.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 8, 2010)

yeah..and theres always the possibility that someone HAS actually heard a single note...dontcha think they demoed it for a select few already to some capacity?


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 8, 2010)

Glad there's tutorials next week - they should give a better flavour than a demo imho.

This is kinda OT, but looking at the interface I was musing about aftertouch, and why it isn't as universal as velocity sensitivity on keyboards (it has certainly been around for long enough). It would be nice to have the modwheel for dynamics and aftertouch for vibrato on strings.


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## choc0thrax (Jan 8, 2010)

midphase @ Fri Jan 08 said:


> If you'd include some of the top names in the business as idiots, then that would be accurate.
> 
> My guess is that anyone for whom $1500 is not worth even thinking about would. If my last name was Elfman, or Zimmer, or Howard, I would probably have an open account with East West and just tell them to send me everything that comes down the assembly line the moment it's available.
> 
> So yeah, I bet there's a lot of wealthy guys who will preorder without hearing a single note.



I assume those guys don't even have to pay.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 8, 2010)

speaking of paying....the strings are already on sale 
Hm... noticed they are not really THAT expensive ...the gold edtition is like €699.00...that aint to bad...if only play worked offcourse .


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## ddas (Jan 8, 2010)

EW make good products and already have a top-tier orchestral library. I'm sure HWS is going to be a great product and people will preorder it without hearing a note. Just like people will pay Hans and Danny to score their next film without hearing a note. 

I'm excited to hear it. One interesting item on that page is the hard drive delivery method is not intended for streaming...probably means they are duping the library someplace cheap (e.g. China) on entry-level USB hard drives. Smart. But a bit of a bummer that the library is not made to stream off the very hard drive it's being delivered on...I can't imagine it would be that much more to make them FW drives at 7200rpm. Oh well...small nitpick.


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## Unison (Jan 8, 2010)

* Multiple finger positions for all sections _*including open strings*_

Either the string is open, or it isn't?!?!?


- But apart from that the articulation list looks rather yummy!


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## c0mp0ser (Jan 8, 2010)

Hey guys, 

They mentioned having people in their studio on the release day to check it out. Anyone going?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 8, 2010)

Justus @ 8/1/2010 said:


> I wonder who would pre-order without having heard a single note...



There are some companies that deserve that kind of trust, like EW, Spectrasonics, SAM, Tonehammer, etc


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## Rob Elliott (Jan 8, 2010)

My gut says that they'll have a new updated version of Play with this (possibly Play Pro) and that the library itself will be a must have. Given that this section of the orchestra is *on* about 90% of what I do - the library will be worth it - even if I only use a portion of the articulation list shown.

I use LASS a heck of a lot now but I haven't taken VSL off my HD's - still use them quite a bit. I just cannot have enough articulation, tone, playability, etc. options when it comes to strings.

For me - the anticipation of this one is similar to what I had with LASS. LASS and VSL are SO different that they play together well (sorry for the pun :oops: ) - I think HWS will further compliment my options and help me realize in the real world what is going on in and around my brain cell.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 8, 2010)

midphase @ Fri Jan 08 said:


> If you'd include some of the top names in the business as idiots, then that would be accurate.
> 
> My guess is that anyone for whom $1500 is not worth even thinking about would. If my last name was Elfman, or Zimmer, or Howard, I would probably have an open account with East West and just tell them to send me everything that comes down the assembly line the moment it's available.
> 
> So yeah, I bet there's a lot of wealthy guys who will preorder without hearing a single note.



I'm sure guys like that do NOT pay- but assuming you were a middle tier composer making a mid-six figure income, I'm sure you'd just buy everything. Some of the bigger ticket popular choices from last year-LASS, Symphobia, Omnisphere, Trillian, Evolve, Hollywood winds, a Chris Hein library or two a few perc libraries,a guitar or specialty instrument, a few others (this is just off the top of my head) What does that add up to, maybe 5, 6 grand? Once you have your main Orch library in place, it's more about upgrades and new additions- and new libraries are becoming more price competitive in this economic environment because developers need hobbyists, fledging composers and struggling pros as well to make their numbers work.


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## A.C.Edwards (Jan 8, 2010)

> * Multiple finger positions for all sections including open strings
> 
> Either the string is open, or it isn't?!?!?



I believe they mean alternate fretting for the pitch of the said open string. Like on guitar, if you fret the 5th fret on E, you get an A, which has slightly different timbre to that of the A string. Same principle.

Anyway, Zimmer would have definately heard it.. what with two of the developers working for him and all...


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 9, 2010)

ddas @ Fri Jan 08 said:


> One interesting item on that page is the hard drive delivery method is not intended for streaming...probably means they are duping the library someplace cheap (e.g. China) on entry-level USB hard drives. Smart. But a bit of a bummer that the library is not made to stream off the very hard drive it's being delivered on...I can't imagine it would be that much more to make them FW drives at 7200rpm. Oh well...small nitpick.



I know I'm The Guy That Breaks Things, but I never got Play to work with external USB libs. It just falls over. Mind you that was a while ago and I haven't tried my ultra-stable Play 1.2.5 with an external... and don't intend to!


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## lux (Jan 9, 2010)

Hey Thomas, nice news, i'm sure it will follow the high quality path EW put me in habit. Expecially if it satisfies your own ears, among the pickiest on planet.

Have a question. Does the lib include some internal scalability scheme? Like having very light patches and less demanding side to side with huge nightmarish combos?

One of the advantages Play has in this occasion is that you can switch on-off layers on the fly. Still I'm wondering if such kind of scalability has been introduced into the lib by design

Thanks
Luca


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## NYC Composer (Jan 9, 2010)

Thomas_J @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> PLAY has been completely revamped to accommodate the insane requirements of this massive and complex library (close to a million samples). And no, it's not equally complex to use. Open strings means just that (not sure what's unclear about it - although danish people are known to be somewhat slow.. I should know as I am one, half danish anyways  ). Anyway, moving on. Zimmer has not heard it. The "top tier composers" are not getting a free copy. The delivery drive is quite capable of streaming samples. Just not HS, which is much more demanding than your average library. The library is not expensive. It is a veritable bargain. It cost a fortune to produce and the price does not reflect that at all. I just hope all of you either hate it or can't afford it so I can have it to myself



I'm sure you know of whence you speak, but are you telling me that if Zimmer asks to hear it and then allows a blurb of his positive comments to be used, he will not receive a free copy? That stretches my credulity, but what do I know.


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## AR (Jan 9, 2010)

Haha, interesting point Thomas :D

To you other guys here in this blog: Do I feel some hostility, envy, angriness?

Either you hate yourself while investing your 1000+ bucks on the wrong product (including me, yes I like LASS, too) or you blame EW for not having a good computer and that's why PLAY sucks. Funny.

Well, let me tell you smth...

Hollywood Strings is gonna kick ass (especially LASS)!

Go back to the link 
http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-strings

and have a look for yourself. Take a closer look on the right part of the screenshot. Yes, it has it's own reverb and way better controlable functions when it comes to acoustic richness (I mean Decca Tree etc.). That's being said, Hollywood Strings will settle somewhere closer to Symphobia. 

My question to Thomas is: Since you've been woòz   ½éz   ½éz   ½éz   ½é	z   ½é
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## ChrisAxia (Jan 9, 2010)

Well guys, my faith in T.J and Shawn Murphy is such that I have pre-ordered the Diamond edition. Much as I like LASS, I still find myself using many QLSO patches, depending on the sound I'm after. Hollywood Strings replacing all my other libraries is not the issue. I'm confident it will be my 'go to' library for most uses. Just like pianos, you can never have enough strings!!

~Chris


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## hbuus (Jan 9, 2010)

Thomas_J @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> although danish people are known to be somewhat slow.. I should know as I am one, half danish anyways



Sometimes being fast is not necessarily a good thing - for example in product quality control 8) 

Henrik


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## Pietro (Jan 9, 2010)

It will most probably be a very well produced library. How it sounds, how better (or worse) it is from other libraries, we'll know after the release.

I know I like the mic positions, but I've been doing very well with LASS and some impulse response reverbs. Blends nicely with most of the stuff I use. It's very well programmed, and that will not be easy to beat.

I imagine the sound of HS being different from what is available right now - it's been recorded in a studio. And not a reverbless one (listen to QL Pianos). So I think these will have a very specific sound.

How specific? Let's wait for the presentation and demos.

- Piotr


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## Unison (Jan 9, 2010)

Thomas_J @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Open strings means just that (not sure what's unclear about it - although danish people are known to be somewhat slow.. I should know as I am one, half danish anyways  ).



Hey Thomas,

I'm always ready to burden you with my Danish ignorance.  Just out of curiosity, how far fetched has this alternative position playing been incorporated? Is it also part of the legato patches, so that for instance you could directly chose to play a soft higher passage on the A- or D string of the violins? Or is it 'just' available for long notes, where in addition (as I now understand) any D-A or E can be "forced" open..

It would, speaking of open strings, be immensely cool to have recorded double stops with the open strings, for aggressive attack lines or more folklore type expression (like the beautiful Norwegian folkemusik)

-Nicklas


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## Justus (Jan 9, 2010)

Thomas_J @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> PLAY has been completely revamped to accommodate the insane requirements of this massive and complex library (close to a million samples). And no, it's not equally complex to use. Open strings means just that (not sure what's unclear about it - although danish people are known to be somewhat slow.. I should know as I am one, half danish anyways  ). Anyway, moving on. Zimmer has not heard it. The "top tier composers" are not getting a free copy. The delivery drive is quite capable of streaming samples. Just not HS, which is much more demanding than your average library. The library is not expensive. It is a veritable bargain. It cost a fortune to produce and the price does not reflect that at all. I just hope all of you either hate it or can't afford it so I can have it to myself



Hi Thomas! Thanks for clarifying.


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## Rob (Jan 9, 2010)

Thomas_J @ 9th January 2010 said:


> ...Open strings means just that (not sure what's unclear about it ...



what's unclear is that an open string can only be open, how can you have different positions of an open string? I must be slow too :lol:

EDIT: I guess they mean: 
Multiple finger positions for all sections including open strings (position), being open one of the available positions... but I understand Unison's doubt


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## ChrisAxia (Jan 9, 2010)

Rob @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Thomas_J @ 9th January 2010 said:
> 
> 
> > ...Open strings means just that (not sure what's unclear about it ...
> ...



I believe that it means that it also has open string samples, something that I'm sure most libraries don't record since you can't apply vibrato to an open string.

~C


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## Udo (Jan 9, 2010)

ChrisAxia @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> I believe that it means that it also has open string samples, something that I'm sure most libraries don't record since you can't apply vibrato to an open string.



You can apply vibrato to an open string by pressing the string behind the nut (not sure if that's the right word, but that's what it's called on a guitar).


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## ChrisAxia (Jan 9, 2010)

Udo @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> ChrisAxia @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe that it means that it also has open string samples, something that I'm sure most libraries don't record since you can't apply vibrato to an open string.
> ...



Interesting, though I don't think this is a technique used by violinists. Hannes?

~C


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## Rob (Jan 9, 2010)

I have seen string players vibrate the same note as the open string on the preceding string, like D on the G string toghether with the open D...


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## Vision (Jan 9, 2010)

Thomas_J @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> PLAY has been completely revamped to accommodate the insane requirements of this massive and complex library (close to a million samples).



I assume this means we are getting an official "update" for snow leopard? "Completely Revamped" that's cool.. but if Play needed to be revamped to handle the requirements of the new library, then this should be a given. PLAY's code in General more stable/efficient now? Can it access RAM outside of Logic? What?!?! Needs some further explaining. . 

I've pre-ordered btw. :|


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 9, 2010)

Hey Thomas, good to see you posting here, and congrats on the library

I am sure it's a great library, the only thing holding me back is... you guessed it: PLAY :shock:


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## Craig Sharmat (Jan 9, 2010)

Vision @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Thomas_J @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > PLAY has been completely revamped to accommodate the insane requirements of this massive and complex library (close to a million samples).
> ...



My guess is you will need a true 64 bit system. Macs are not really there yet so a current fast PC would probably be the best choice for the time being.


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## dcoscina (Jan 9, 2010)

I also think LITE versions of the patches would be good so that those who do buy the library can still get going with it until they upgrade to a better computer system down the line.


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## Rob Elliott (Jan 9, 2010)

Craig Sharmat @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Vision @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Thomas_J @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> ...





Couldn't agree more Craig from what I have seen. Have my new i7 - 18gb box coming next week. One of it's main duties will be to run this library. Encouraged by TJ's comments and was hoping the same regarding PLAY. I of course share Simon's concerns.


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## mikebarry (Jan 9, 2010)

When do we find out about the presentation ? It's now on the 14th I see - should be fun.


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## midphase (Jan 9, 2010)

"Well, let me tell you smth... 
Hollywood Strings is gonna kick ass (especially LASS)! "


hmmmm...not sure what's up with that post, but those are pretty strong words considering none of us have heard a peep of Hollywood Strings.

I don't think anyone is going to kick anyone's ass here, I totally think there's plenty of room for all libraries to co-exist, and I think most composers will want access to different types of sounds for different styled scores.


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## A.C.Edwards (Jan 9, 2010)

Very good call. I think thats what alot of people are forgetting at the moment, every library has its purpose, and while Hollywood Strings may, or may not, replace most peoples current 'stock strings library', every other library will still have its place.

That said, with the lineup of productions, not to mention hype, this is definately one product that has a huge name to live up too, all without anyone hearing a single recorded note. Thats impressive in itself.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 9, 2010)

brass in pocket


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## kdm (Jan 9, 2010)

Strings on Ice?
String Cheese?
Strings Emporium? (including Tinsel Town Strings, Music City Strings, Big Apple Strings, Londontown Strings, Berliner Strings, with expansion packs available)


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 9, 2010)

How about like they do with cars, animal names. Cougar Strings


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## bryla (Jan 9, 2010)

Or star wars names

Luke Stringwalker
Brass Vader
Chewbrassa
R2-Oboe
C-Timpan-O


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## Ed (Jan 9, 2010)

Emanuel @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Silly Strings
> Ladies' Strings
> Open Strings
> Strings Attached



Cheese strings!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 9, 2010)

this is the result of having no demos... :-(

Contra Brass?


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## hbuus (Jan 9, 2010)

bryla @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Or star wars names
> 
> Luke Stringwalker
> Brass Vader
> ...



:D :D :D 

And when those names are used, it's time for sequels!

Brass Vader II - Return of the Vicious Valves
etc.

Henrik


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## johncarter (Jan 9, 2010)

Hans Zimmer Strings.
John Williams strings

Danny Elfman Strings


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## NYC Composer (Jan 9, 2010)

dcoscina @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Meh, I guess I'm an idiot in choco's eyes but I pre-rdred the Gold Edition. I figured between this and LASS, I'm covered for a long time. Hopefully.
> 
> This was basically my budget for 2010 although I did grab Kontakt 4 upgrade too this week. Now, time to make MUSIC!



Sorry, no time to make music. Too busy buying/installing/updating/upgrading software/, buying more RAM/buying new computer/adding more drives to run said software, /testing/debugging/haplessly reading forums for advice on why stuff doesn't work/complaining about how said stuff doesn't work, in forum, /sitting and staring hopelsesly at blank screen after 10th re-boot whilst downing fifth of cheap Scotch.

(Oh, btw, my sytem is actually working well at the moment :wink: )


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## SvK (Jan 9, 2010)

Strings Noir

SvK


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## José Herring (Jan 9, 2010)

I really don't think that companies like EW have anything to gain by giving their products away to big names for endorsements. EW reputation is already established, therefore, have no need to do so. And, if you notice most of their celebrity endorsements come after the product has been released for some time.

Personally I think HS will be killer. I want it. As far as Play is concerned it may be worth it to just build a dedicated Play machine setup to just run Play libraries which seem to do just fine as long as they aren't working with other libraries on the same machine.

I'm thinking of just getting Plat, HS, SD2, pianos and Choirs on a monster i7machine loaded with Ram. That with Omnisphere, Trillian and Stylus on another well equipt machine. Just imagine the possibilities.
=o


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## Ranietz (Jan 9, 2010)

Regarding EW giving away products: Doug Rogers said a while ago that Hans Zimmer _bought_ 3x EWQLSO Platinum. So even the big names have to pay for their software.


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## dcoscina (Jan 9, 2010)

I am probably not pushing my system that much but I had something like 20 instances of PLAY open for a Goliath demo I did in Logic 9 on Snow Leopard (Mac Pro Quad Core 2.66 w. 8 gigs RAM) and it didn't crash, stall or anything. I dunno, maybe I'm just lucky. My system is not killer by any stretch of the imagination but then again, I'm not full time pro. Just freelance here and there.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 9, 2010)

Chocolate Strings


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## choc0thrax (Jan 9, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Chocolate Strings



What about choco strings? You press the keys and it's just my voice telling you if what you just played totally sucks or not.


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## José Herring (Jan 9, 2010)

Ranietz @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Regarding EW giving away products: Doug Rogers said a while ago that Hans Zimmer _bought_ 3x EWQLSO Platinum. So even the big names have to pay for their software.



Not sure but they used a lot of the techniques that EW pioneered and developed for use in his own private library. :lol: Having heard it I thought it sounded like a really, really good SO done in a great studio rather than a hall.

I wish I had that kind of cash. I have so many ideas.


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## choc0thrax (Jan 9, 2010)

dcoscina @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Meh, I guess I'm an idiot in choco's eyes but I pre-rdred the Gold Edition. I figured between this and LASS, I'm covered for a long time. Hopefully.
> 
> This was basically my budget for 2010 although I did grab Kontakt 4 upgrade too this week. Now, time to make MUSIC!



I just don't see the point of pre-ordering(unless you're wealthy enough that it doesn't matter) until you hear the thing. Why not just wait till the demos and then pre-order? HS will probably be awesome but you never know.


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## Ed (Jan 9, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> dcoscina @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Meh, I guess I'm an idiot in choco's eyes but I pre-rdred the Gold Edition. I figured between this and LASS, I'm covered for a long time. Hopefully.
> ...



I imagine your voice to sound like Cartman.... "Lame" :D


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 9, 2010)

How much sooner do you get the lib when you pre-order? Just curious.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jan 9, 2010)

I would think pre-order will be the first shipped but once one orders EW is known for their one day turn-around. If it is about saving a few bucks then you preorder.

About companies giving away stuff, as mentioned if you are established or have an item that will be popular then there is no need to give it away. Much of this not for financial reasons. Where does a company draw the line, this guy is worthy but this next guy is not? It can create bad blood and the safest policy is to not give stuff away unless sales are down.


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## choc0thrax (Jan 9, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> choc0thrax @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > dcoscina @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> ...



Weird cause I always figured you'd sound like Ike.


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## lux (Jan 9, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Guy Bacos @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Chocolate Strings
> ...



sold. 

Are you a downloadable item?


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## choc0thrax (Jan 9, 2010)

lux @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> choc0thrax @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Guy Bacos @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> ...



Yes, and the best part is I'm only a few megabytes in size. About the size of your standard computer virus.


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## bryla (Jan 9, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> I'm only a few megabytes in size.


hmmm.... sorry to break it to you, but size DOES matter


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## synthetic (Jan 9, 2010)

Is there really someone on this board who thinks that TJ Bergersen's demo for Hollywood Strings, mixed by Shawn Murphy, is going to disappoint!!? 

DUDE. 

He could make VSL First Edition sound like the LS freaking O! 

p.s. Human Strings makes me think of a locked room with string players chained to music desks, reading the MIDI data as it comes in. "Crap, I forgot to feed my Human Strings and they died." :(


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## bryla (Jan 9, 2010)

Haha... Tamagotchi Strings


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 9, 2010)

Craig Sharmat @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> I would think pre-order will be the first shipped but once one orders EW is known for their one day turn-around. If it is about saving a few bucks then you preorder.



What we've been told by EW is that the pre-orders will go first as a group. Thereafter, each Hollywood Strings order on the hard drive is "duplicated" individually and will take several days to ship.


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## theheresy (Jan 9, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> dcoscina @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Meh, I guess I'm an idiot in choco's eyes but I pre-rdred the Gold Edition. I figured between this and LASS, I'm covered for a long time. Hopefully.
> ...



all that 'custom library' talk is bunk. I know several people that worked with Zimmer and heard his infamous private library and they all said it's nothing special, is outdated and not as good as recent consumer stuff etc. It was maybe something special back in 2004 or whenever it was he personally recorded it but it's nothing compared to the new string libraries.


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## Dr.Quest (Jan 9, 2010)

theheresy @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> choc0thrax @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > dcoscina @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> ...




What you are quoting has nothing to do with Zimmers original library -- so WTH is the point of that? What does Zimmer or his library have to do with this topic?
Just confused. :?: 
J


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## tmhuud (Jan 9, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> How much sooner do you get the lib when you pre-order? Just curious.



I pre-ordered today but received it yesterday. Hmmmm - not bad.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 9, 2010)

tmhuud @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Guy Bacos @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > How much sooner do you get the lib when you pre-order? Just curious.
> ...



:shock: :shock: :shock:


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## Vision (Jan 9, 2010)

Tactical Nuke Strings - TNS


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## NYC Composer (Jan 9, 2010)

String Theory


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## Leon Willett (Jan 10, 2010)

I can't think of a witty string thing to say and I feel left out!


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## artsoundz (Jan 10, 2010)

me neither. I guess that means we're strung out.


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## dcoscina (Jan 10, 2010)

Amateur Strings- complete with quarter tone mishaps and half assed intonation.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 10, 2010)

dcoscina @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Amateur Strings- complete with quarter tone mishaps and half assed intonation.



That's not bad. :D


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## dogforester (Jan 10, 2010)

dcoscina @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Amateur Strings- complete with quarter tone mishaps and half assed intonation.



And here are the first demos....................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N2peFH0ag0

wait till 1.12 superb example for the Amateur strings lib.


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## Ed (Jan 10, 2010)

Thomas_J @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Really, with all the scripting going on under the hood, it should be called Hollywood Integers



TJ can I ask to what extent will Hollywood Strings replace your existing strings? 

I know it doesnt really make any difference from our point of view since we cant have your private library anyway, but just wondered if theres anything that your current library does that HS won't do or if it does it better?


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## Ed (Jan 10, 2010)

theheresy @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> all that 'custom library' talk is bunk. I know several people that worked with Zimmer and heard his infamous private library and they all said it's nothing special, is outdated and not as good as recent consumer stuff etc. It was maybe something special back in 2004 or whenever it was he personally recorded it but it's nothing compared to the new string libraries.



I know this has nothing to do with the topic but wanted to reply anyway, I cant imagine a whole movie being scored with just QLSO or VSL but can imagine a whole movie being scores with Zimmers lib, why? Because it already happened, eg films like Armageddon. Something about it just sounds good. Still, like someone else pointed out, who knows what they are using today.


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## zareone (Jan 10, 2010)

[quote="Ed @ Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:42 pm"I cant imagine a whole movie being scored with just QLSO or VSL but can imagine a whole movie being scores with Zimmers lib, why? Because it already happened, eg films like Armageddon[/quote]

Hi Ed, 
are you sure it's 100% samples? Searching in the web I've found this: 

http://www.discogs.com/Trevor-Rabin-Arm ... se/1420120

It says: "The Orchestra was recorded at Sony Scoring Studios (Cilver City, CA). "
And : 
"Concertmaster - Endre Granat , Ralph Morrisson* 
Conductor - Gordon Goodwin "

Just curious.


----------



## Ed (Jan 10, 2010)

zareone @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Hi Ed,
> are you sure it's 100% samples? Searching in the web I've found this:
> 
> http://www.discogs.com/Trevor-Rabin-Arm ... se/1420120
> ...



Pretty weird! 

Aside from some solo instruments can you show me a track that sounds like its a real orchestra?

EDIT: Ok so assuming Media Ventures successfully made a live orchestra sound just like samples in Armageddon... how about Metal Gear Solid 2 etc... by HGW and COD4 and so on.. I dont think they used live orchestra there! 

EDIT 2: Oh and Equilibrium's score by Klaus Badelt, Im certain they didnt have any money to record a live orchestra for that either.


----------



## zareone (Jan 10, 2010)

(Un)fortunately, I don't have that soundtrack CD. In Spotify they have the Main Theme.

Hearing it, it could have been done with samples, yes. 

But anyway, most of Remote Control scores could. Most of them are so overproduced, that I don't feel the musicians playing their instruments. It's like a wall of sound (of course there are some exceptions)

It wasn't my intention to doubt about your statement, just wanted to know if you have more information about this that what I've managed to find.

Greetings!


----------



## Ed (Jan 10, 2010)

@zareone: You can search on youtube for the score and the ones I mentioned, its all there. I think also while unreleased Bad Boys 2 didnt have a real orchestra but cant confirm as they could have made it sound like samples again, but i doubt it. 

Im glad you said it as I really thought they only used a few solo instruments! :D


----------



## zareone (Jan 10, 2010)

Ops, you've edited while I was answering. I'll have a listen to those soundtracks. I enjoyd a lot Equilibrium (it wasn't even released on theaters here in Spain, I suppose due to the tight budget)


----------



## zareone (Jan 10, 2010)

It could be that with "orchestra" they're referring to what's listed (percussion, solo violin, conductor...) And most was samples.

(OT) Have a look at the bottom: 

"Trevor uses Emu, Korg, M&K Speakers, Digital Performer, D'Addario Strings. "


----------



## Ed (Jan 10, 2010)

zareone @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> It could be that with "orchestra" they're referring to what's listed (percussion, solo violin, conductor...) And most was samples.
> 
> (OT) Have a look at the bottom:
> 
> "Trevor uses Emu, Korg, M&K Speakers, Digital Performer, D'Addario Strings. "



Could be, but I think it would be a bit of a stretch to call that an "The Orchestra" if they did! :D Who knows! Actually since TJ now works at Remote Control I guess he could actually ask someone!


----------



## theheresy (Jan 10, 2010)

Huh? Armageddon was a big budget blockbuster why would they use sampled orchestras in that? I highly doubt it was samples. It's just as someone else said RCP's sound is so overproduced and often put through guitar amp's (a la POTC) so that it sounds synthetic basically on purpose.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> zareone @ Sun Jan 10 said:
> 
> 
> > It could be that with "orchestra" they're referring to what's listed (percussion, solo violin, conductor...) And most was samples.
> ...



I hope TJ is over there teaching them that the black key things make sound too.


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 10, 2010)

Don't take RCP too serious from an artistical point of view. They often have to deliver Rock 'n Roll with orchestra (like POTC) to deliver a "huge crowd" experience to the viewers. Nothing wrong with that, IMHO, it's entertainment business, let's not forget. Overproduced? Who cares? If it works for the director, producer and the audience, fine with me - I mostly also enjoy it.
And Hans also has the chops to deliver very delicate and surprising stuff as well - he is certainly not a one-trick poney. As much as I respect and love JW's music, I sometimes get tired by so many notes in his scores...


----------



## choc0thrax (Jan 10, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yM4cswT ... re=related

When I listen to this I can't help but imagine a giant Korg Triton about to smash into the earth.


----------



## Ed (Jan 10, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yM4cswTgy0&feature=related
> 
> When I listen to this I can't help but imagine a giant Korg Triton about to smash into the earth.



hahah! :lol: Thing is I have a Korg Triton and it sounds nothing like that


----------



## Ed (Jan 10, 2010)

theheresy @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Huh? Armageddon was a big budget blockbuster why would they use sampled orchestras in that? I highly doubt it was samples. It's just as someone else said RCP's sound is so overproduced and often put through guitar amp's (a la POTC) so that it sounds synthetic basically on purpose.



Well listen to it! 

Even obviously sampled scores like MGS and COD4 even sounds better or the same most of the time, so who knows what they mean by "The Orchestra" in Armageddon. 

And guess what, Thomas Newman has used Prosonus Strings Staccs and Pizz in films like The Green Mile, Series of Unfortunate Events and Finding Nemo... Im really confused as to why he would however seeing as how he has the orchestra right there and eveything.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jan 10, 2010)

Ed @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> choc0thrax @ Sun Jan 10 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yM4cswTgy0&feature=related
> ...



Heh, it's been a while since I've heard a Triton. What I do know though is that the Triton is mediocrity incarnate


----------



## Ed (Jan 10, 2010)

theheresy @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Huh? Armageddon was a big budget blockbuster why would they use sampled orchestras in that? I highly doubt it was samples. It's just as someone else said RCP's sound is so overproduced and often put through guitar amp's (a la POTC) so that it sounds synthetic basically on purpose.



Check out Zimmers *sampled "synth" demo *for Gladiator. 



How different does this sound to Armageddon? Is it that hard to believe for you?


----------



## Ed (Jan 10, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Heh, it's been a while since I've heard a Triton. What I do know though is that the Triton is mediocrity incarnate



Certainly does suck  Some sounds are fun though, I have no idea how they made it sound so good for the Riven Soundtrack though.


----------



## lux (Jan 10, 2010)

uhhh i want a triton too to make all those hip hop thingies


----------



## Niah (Jan 10, 2010)

Blockbusters are all about making profit, sequels and franchises.

the less they spend on production the more they can profit from these movies. 

so is it really a surprise the predominance of samples and CGI effects usage on these movies?


----------



## gsilbers (Jan 10, 2010)

theheresy @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> choc0thrax @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> 
> 
> > dcoscina @ Sat Jan 09 said:
> ...



he has 2 libraries. the old one that most rcp guys have and a new one. the new one is at 192k, 7.1 (or something like it) and a lot its still being ironed out. (or maybe its done since i knew about it. 
its being done in germany. 

there is also a guy who works there thats his only work is to sample new instruments for new movies. he works closely with the engineers to book time and record this spacial instruments. the one that comes to mind is for the movie madagascar,. also for examples he has a 10gb drum "patch" for his regular drums. 
tons and tons of layers. 
but hey, if id be getting paid one mill for every movie (not counting orch expenses) id also be sampling and getting a 192k 7.1 orchestra. and hiring top orchestrators... ec.


----------



## cc64 (Jan 10, 2010)

dcoscina @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Amateur Strings- complete with quarter tone mishaps and half assed intonation.



I declined a gig 2 weeks ago because i didn't have this library...

Virtuoso Pianist Alain Lefèvre is scoring the music for a film being made about André Mathieu a child-prodigy composer(wrote symphonies at 7 sort of thing). 

For a scene in wich Mathieu as a child walks through a corridor in a music school they needed music that sounded like if kids where practicing the violin. I told them that they should take a Nagra and go to a music school. But the producers of the film insisted that they wanted Alain Lefèvre to play everything that we hear in the film thus they wanted me to come in with my keyboard rig and come up with the sounds for Alain to play :?: :?: :!: 

I declined but had i possessed the coveted ASL, i could have done the gig...

Claude


----------



## dcoscina (Jan 10, 2010)

OT- I love Mathieu's '76 Olympics music.


----------



## SvK (Jan 10, 2010)

I still like "Strings Noir" 

i would though, wouldn't I?


----------



## Vision (Jan 10, 2010)

Thomas_J @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Really, with all the scripting going on under the hood, it should be called Hollywood Integers



"Algorithmia Strings". You can have that one for free. I'll be here all day folks. /\~O


----------



## Audun Jemtland (Jan 10, 2010)

Rob Elliott @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Come on guys - I have to be the one to come up with........
> 
> G-Strings (for the dirty, gritty sound....)
> 
> :oops:


G-strings wins:D

http://lh3.ggpht.com/goldhck/R7P8oR6OyzI/AAAAAAAAAgA/8c0iTxhQLbs/G+string+for+Men.jpg


----------



## Olias (Jan 10, 2010)

Vision @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> 13 different mic positions.



All of which are at least 100 feet away, in the stands.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Jan 10, 2010)

Maybe a few more string names, then I'll take a poll of it to see the winer.


----------



## Unison (Jan 10, 2010)

South Scandinavian Symphonic Scoring Strings 

Played by blond beautiful females exclusively and with a 386 page rich illustrated manual...

The ensemble is in place, preorders taken now 
http://www.kim-sjogren.dk/img/presse/Kim + Mermaids.JPG


----------



## stevenson-again (Jan 10, 2010)

> Check out Zimmers sampled "synth" demo for Gladiator.



jesus - just went straight into pirates of the carribean. i don't remember that...

thanks for posting this. interesssstttttinggggg.....


----------



## Vision (Jan 10, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> Maybe a few more string names, then I'll take a poll of it to see the winer.



I think the winning choice should be presented by Casey Kasem. Matter of fact, I think he deserves his own string section too.

Edit: Don't let the kids hear this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDYK2H0ldbo


----------



## Ed (Jan 10, 2010)

stevenson-again @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> > Check out Zimmers sampled "synth" demo for Gladiator.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hehe I do remember when I saw POTC thinking some of it was a direct rip of Gladiator. Of course Zimmer did POTC as well, some people think Klaus did it but really all he did is take Zimmers suite and fleshed it out for the film.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Jan 10, 2010)

*Mahler Strings *

 o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ 
o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~ 
o/~ o/~ o/~ o/~


----------



## cc64 (Jan 10, 2010)

Unison @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> South Scandinavian Symphonic Scoring Strings
> 
> Played by blond beautiful females exclusively and with a 386 page rich illustrated manual...
> 
> ...



I feel a sudden urge to move to Denmark and buy a few red ties ; )

CC


----------



## Udo (Jan 10, 2010)

The 'signal to noise ratio' of this thread is already very poor, so I may as well help degrade it  

For those interested in all that Hollywood plastic, fake and phony, here's the ideal sound to listen to when your face, boobs, or whatever, are being 're-manufactured'; the Soothing Hollywood Fake Strings. Disclaimer: Unfortunately real peole were used to create the fakes :wink:


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## artsoundz (Jan 10, 2010)

lux @ Sun Jan 10 said:


> uhhh i want a triton too to make all those hip hop thingies



triton has a few nice sounds but it is a great master keyboard with deep split and layering stuff. I miss mine. And I always liked the feel of Korg synth keybeds.


----------



## bryla (Jan 11, 2010)

Unison @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> The ensemble is in place, preorders taken now
> http://www.kim-sjogren.dk/img/presse/Kim + Mermaids.JPG


Then just get rid of Kim!


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jan 11, 2010)

VSL are going to be replacing Appassionata Strings with Heart Strings. Which, of course, you don't "play" but "tug at".

Who could spell Appassionata, anyway?!


----------



## bryla (Jan 11, 2010)

VSL is actually building a sample player that connects to your webcam. After you have played in everything, you can record your facial expression as you go by the piece. The samples will then react to and reflect the emotions you're showing...

They can't get it to work live, so that you record the music AND you're face, so you have to do the face afterwards, but then you can do it one time for the whole orchestra, or any section you like


----------



## Jaap (Jan 11, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> Maybe a few more string names, then I'll take a poll of it to see the winer.



Lord of the Strings - the fellowship of the strings
Hans Zimmer and the chamber of Strings
Stringless in Seatle
The strings ultimatum


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## hbuus (Jan 11, 2010)

Jaap @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> Lord of the Strings - the fellowship of the strings



Shoot! I thought "Brass Vader" was gonna get my vote for sure, but now with LOTS in the competition also...that's gonna be a close call! :D 

Henrik


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## hbuus (Jan 11, 2010)

As Strings As It Gets

Gone With The Strings

Spartastrings

Wall Strings

String Wars

Meet The Strings

Apocastrings Now

One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Strings

Rocky Bal-strings-a


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Jan 11, 2010)

Demos please.


----------



## SvK (Jan 11, 2010)

"Strings From Hell"


----------



## SvK (Jan 11, 2010)

"Fiddles Of Death"


----------



## OB.one (Jan 11, 2010)

"Basic Instrings" ... o/~ 

Olivier aka OB.one
http://www.myspace.com/obonemusic


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 11, 2010)

"No Brand Name Strings"


----------



## Ed (Jan 11, 2010)

Thomas Newman Strings... (we can only hope!)


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## Jaap (Jan 11, 2010)

Schindlers Strings
The good, the bad and the strings
Strings don't cry 
Full Metal Strings
Gone with the strings
Mad Strings 1,2 and 3 :mrgreen: 
The Silence of the Strings

42 (definately should be the new name!)

Enough for now :mrgreen:


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## Niah (Jan 11, 2010)

I think that SvK came close to what these Hollywood Strings will sound like:

here's my guess: two strings from hell :twisted:


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 11, 2010)

Being trained as research psychologist, I find it very interesting what's going on here 

I love you all, sweet kids!


----------



## theheresy (Jan 11, 2010)

How about "Random Strings", it's a box with a big yellow question mark on it when you order it for $1000. It could be LASS, it could be HS inside, or it could be DVZ STRINGS inside :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Vision (Jan 11, 2010)

Emanuel @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> Being trained as research psychologist, I find it very interesting what's going on here
> 
> I love you all, sweet kids!



This thread needs it's own sticky. :D 

I think car manufacturers should get involved with making strings. Thus.. "Ferrari Passion Strings".


----------



## Jaap (Jan 11, 2010)

Emanuel @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> Being trained as research psychologist, I find it very interesting what's going on here
> 
> I love you all, sweet kids!



Should I be concerned? 

o-[][]-o


----------



## theheresy (Jan 11, 2010)

Vision @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> Emanuel @ Mon Jan 11 said:
> 
> 
> > Being trained as research psychologist, I find it very interesting what's going on here
> ...




Kia budget strings. 

Hyundai discount strings.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jan 11, 2010)

theheresy @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> How about "Random Strings", it's a box with a big yellow question mark on it when you order it for $1000. It could be LASS, it could be HS inside, or it could be DVZ STRINGS inside :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



When your box shows up in 2031 I guess you'll know which lib is in there. 

I was thinking about how HS will ship already installed on an HD and I'm wondering if DVZ will come pre-installed in a trash can for convenient disposal.


----------



## hbuus (Jan 11, 2010)

German strings - where everything was recorded in pristine quality from inside either a Mercedes, Audi or VW.

(dunno if any of those brands were actually acquired by non-German companies somewhere down the line, but whatever!)

Henrik


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## JKOL (Jan 11, 2010)

Alan Silvestrings

Lord of the Strings: Fellowship of the portamento script


----------



## Ed (Jan 11, 2010)

Garritan Strings.


LOLOLOLOLLOLO


----------



## theheresy (Jan 11, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> theheresy @ Mon Jan 11 said:
> 
> 
> > How about "Random Strings", it's a box with a big yellow question mark on it when you order it for $1000. It could be LASS, it could be HS inside, or it could be DVZ STRINGS inside :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> ...



ouch :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## José Herring (Jan 11, 2010)

EW has this weird disclaimer on their website about the HD:

_* The hard drive on which Hollywood Strings Diamond Edition ships is supplied for installation purposes and as product media only. It is not intended for daily use (such as for storing the samples for streaming). EastWest/Soundsonline assumes no responsibility or risk if the drive is used for other purposes._

What does that mean? We can't use the HD for streaming HS? Are we suppose to transfer the strings off the included drive onto a more reliable drive?

I never bought a library on a hard drive before but I thought the whole point was that the library was preinstalled and that you could just pop it into your system register the player and run with it without having to spend all day transferring files.

Jose


----------



## JKOL (Jan 11, 2010)

josejherring @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> What does that mean? We can't use the HD for streaming HS? Are we suppose to transfer the strings off the included drive onto a more reliable drive?



Of course you'd be able to stream it from that HD.

I think they're saying that the HD isn't the fastest beast in the world, so you'd better put it on some better drive(s).


----------



## tfishbein82 (Jan 11, 2010)

josejherring @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> EW has this weird disclaimer on their website about the HD:
> 
> _* The hard drive on which Hollywood Strings Diamond Edition ships is supplied for installation purposes and as product media only. It is not intended for daily use (such as for storing the samples for streaming). EastWest/Soundsonline assumes no responsibility or risk if the drive is used for other purposes._
> 
> What does that mean? We can't use the HD for streaming HS? Are we suppose to transfer the strings off the included drive onto a more reliable drive?


That's probably what it means. Though there will be a benefit to installing from HDD. Instead of swapping 30+ DVDs over the course of several hours, you should be able to just start the installer and let it go until finished. Also, data transfer between drives should be faster than from DVD to HDD. Would be nice if it shipped on a 1TB 7200 RPM drive, but it's more likely USB 5400 RPM.


----------



## oldbrian (Jan 11, 2010)

josejherring @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> EW has this weird disclaimer on their website about the HD:
> 
> _* The hard drive on which Hollywood Strings Diamond Edition ships is supplied for installation purposes and as product media only. It is not intended for daily use (such as for storing the samples for streaming). EastWest/Soundsonline assumes no responsibility or risk if the drive is used for other purposes._
> 
> ...



I think you wouldn't want to stream that amount of data from a single harddrive even without that disclaimer. I can't know for sure of course but I guess that disclaimer is only there to give a note that those drives are not some mumbo-jumbo-hyperstreamer things, they are just a transferring media.


----------



## Vision (Jan 11, 2010)

From Doug Himself: "The Diamond Edition is 320 gigs, the 5th mic position is actually an alternate, you would use less mic positions usually, depending on how you want to sculpture the sound (and of course, how much horsepower your computer has).

Cheers,

- DR

EDIT - it's actually 532 gigs with the 16-bit samples added."


This is insane! I may not even load the 16-bit samples unless I'm having real issues. I found that LASS 24bit wasn't too taxing on my Octo-core. Hopefully HS will follow suit.. Jeeeeeez. :shock:


----------



## janila (Jan 11, 2010)

JKOL @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> josejherring @ Mon Jan 11 said:
> 
> 
> > What does that mean? We can't use the HD for streaming HS? Are we suppose to transfer the strings off the included drive onto a more reliable drive?


It means that you aren't getting a new drive for free in case it breaks which would mean that you don't have the library anymore which means that it's safer to keep the drive stored with your other libraries and use another drive for streaming. There will probably be a fee for a new drive with the samples.


----------



## theheresy (Jan 11, 2010)

Thomas_J @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> PLAY has been completely revamped to accommodate the insane requirements of this massive and complex library (close to a million samples). And no, it's not equally complex to use. Open strings means just that (not sure what's unclear about it - although danish people are known to be somewhat slow.. I should know as I am one, half danish anyways  ). Anyway, moving on. Zimmer has not heard it. The "top tier composers" are not getting a free copy. The delivery drive is quite capable of streaming samples. Just not HS, which is much more demanding than your average library. The library is not expensive. It is a veritable bargain. It cost a fortune to produce and the price does not reflect that at all. I just hope all of you either hate it or can't afford it so I can have it to myself




@JoseJHerring: just reposting this to show you that Thomas J commented on this, I wonder if streaming HS on it will blow it up :shock:


----------



## Pzy-Clone (Jan 11, 2010)

"The Nick P Epic Hairloss-less strings", &
"thats ok , you can have some of mine - Doug R Pro Xpansion strings."


----------



## Craig Sharmat (Jan 11, 2010)

can't believe no one came up with 

Strings no beans

no wonder few of you are rich!


----------



## madbulk (Jan 11, 2010)

I scanned the whole thread, and the product page, but didn't see when the pre-order dates end. Do we have until it's released?


----------



## Ed (Jan 11, 2010)

Anyone else think that with Cinematic Strings, LASS and now HS (which might not be the holy grail but will surely be very very good)... DVZ from Audio Impressions just gets left further and further behind than it already was?

I mean they would probably deny it, but that whole thing has clearly been a massive fail.


----------



## José Herring (Jan 11, 2010)

Vision @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> From Doug Himself: "The Diamond Edition is 320 gigs, the 5th mic position is actually an alternate, you would use less mic positions usually, depending on how you want to sculpture the sound (and of course, how much horsepower your computer has).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...



Somehow I missed this. I was thinking it was a mere 100gig library. But 532gigs. Wow! Guess you'll need 2 10,000rpm raptors for that. Me thinks me gotta have this.


----------



## midphase (Jan 11, 2010)

At this point I honestly just feel bad for them. On the path to the ultimate strings, there will be a few casualties.

I hope that maybe they'll manage to pull something off that will at least allow them to recoup some of the investment...but it'l looking grim.

Anyone know if they'll be at NAMM?


----------



## midphase (Jan 11, 2010)

Damn Jose beat my reply with a post related to an earlier one....I was obviously referring to DVZ.


----------



## José Herring (Jan 11, 2010)

Craig Sharmat @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> can't believe no one came up with
> 
> Strings no beans
> 
> no wonder few of you are rich!



Buy _Hamstrings_--When your tracks need that extra muscle.

Can I be rich now? 8)


----------



## autopilot (Jan 12, 2010)

Here's the add campaign

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rlOSjpIbFs

Australians partic will enjoy this


----------



## Vision (Jan 12, 2010)

String Theory <---- that's a winner to me. :D


----------



## Gerd Kaeding (Jan 12, 2010)

madbulk @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> I scanned the whole thread, and the product page, but didn't see when the pre-order dates end. Do we have until it's released?



Dougs statement on this _( Jan.10th)_ :

_"Pre-order discount will end on release, unless we feel there are not enough marketing materials available at the time (multiple demos etc.) then we'll extend it."_

http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/show ... stcount=63


----------



## Olias (Jan 12, 2010)

I think it's smart for EW not to put it on a drive that is the be-all end-all streaming drive. If they were to do that, they'd be opening up a whole other can of worms: "Your drive doesn't perform well in my system!" "My friend copied his drive to two velociraptors and gets even better performance!" "My friend copied his lib to SSDs and he smokes us all!" "I don't have eSATA!" "I don't have FW800!" "I only have a MacBook Pro with one FW bus and I use that for my audio interface!" "Why didn't you support USB3?" "WHEN are you going to support USB3!??"

etc...

What a nightmare that would be.

And anyway, if you could stream samples off of the DVDs they ship on, _would you_? Wouldn't you want, instead, to keep them safe somewhere, and maybe even make a second backup of them and keep those somewhere else?


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 12, 2010)

Lol, good post, Olias!


----------



## Ranietz (Jan 12, 2010)

Since string libraries gets bigger and more expensive to make I imagine the next step would be sponsored libraries.

Coca Cola Strings
Pepsi Strings
McDonalds Strings


----------



## OB.one (Jan 12, 2010)

Ok so let's discover "GE Strings" (General Electric) 10.000 Watts guaranted
or "Warner Strings" the only cinematographic strings library on the market with 3D effects ... o/~


----------



## Peter Alexander (Jan 12, 2010)

josejherring @ Mon Jan 11 said:


> Craig Sharmat @ Mon Jan 11 said:
> 
> 
> > can't believe no one came up with
> ...



Only if you bundle it with a Paula Deane cookbook...


----------



## theheresy (Jan 12, 2010)

Ranietz @ Tue Jan 12 said:


> Since string libraries gets bigger and more expensive to make I imagine the next step would be sponsored libraries.
> 
> Coca Cola Strings
> Pepsi Strings
> McDonalds Strings



very funny


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

ok it's the 14th when are the HS demos coming


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

ChrisAxia @ Sat Jan 09 said:


> Well guys, my faith in T.J and Shawn Murphy is such that I have pre-ordered the Diamond edition. Much as I like LASS, I still find myself using many QLSO patches, depending on the sound I'm after. Hollywood Strings replacing all my other libraries is not the issue. I'm confident it will be my 'go to' library for most uses. Just like pianos, you can never have enough strings!!
> 
> ~Chris



hey if you got the money why not. i'm sure if we had the money every single human being in this forum would own both LASS and HS. but for MOST of us it comes down to a painful choice


----------



## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

QUESTION here is my MAC spec:

2 x 2.66 GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
16 Gig RAM

is that the same as:
Mac Pro Quad-Core Intel Xeon 2.66GHz ?


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

SvK @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> system recommendations are up though..read fine print.
> 
> SvK


 the system recommendations/requirements seem surprisingly meager to me, at least compared to what I remember reading on the LASS site (need 2 computers etc...)


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

SvK @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> QUESTION here is my MAC spec:
> 
> 2 x 2.66 GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
> 16 Gig RAM
> ...



I'm assuming it should be since you have 2 dualcores inside of it for a total of 4 cores which is for all intents and purposes equivalent to quadcore as far as I can see.


----------



## JohnG (Jan 14, 2010)

Well I guess if a quad core is meager.


----------



## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

so an 8 core in "About this MAC" is referred to as

4 x 2.66 Ghz Dual-Core?

SvK


----------



## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

thanx guys for clarifying this...Was getting paranoid about my specs for a moment.

I want to flick the switch labeled "Vintage RCA44 Ribbon" 

SvK


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

JohnG @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Well I guess if a quad core is meager.



considering that 12 and 24 core machines are right around the corner (rumored march for both AMD and new Mac pros) yes quadcore is pretty meager as it will now be the bottom of the barrel in computing wouldn't you agree


----------



## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

christ,

My condo's value is upside down (worth 50% of what I paid), and I'm actually going to buy this......

ohhh man

SvK


----------



## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 14, 2010)

but with these multi-core CPUs, will the hard disks not pose limits on what you can play?


----------



## JohnG (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ 14th January 2010 said:


> JohnG @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Well I guess if a quad core is meager.
> ...



No.


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

SvK @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> so an 8 core in "About this MAC" is referred to as
> 
> 4 x 2.66 Ghz Dual-Core?
> 
> SvK



well i personally never heard of a quadcore being referred to as a 2xdualcore or an 8core referred to as a 4xdual core only becuase generally to my knowledge an 8core is two QUADcores stuck together so it would be 2xquadcore = 8cores


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

JohnG @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ 14th January 2010 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnG @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...



well to be fair, let's have you load up HS and LASS first then we can see whether you change your mind or not  

if your quadcore doesn't barely squeak by and die then maybe you can say 'no' 

but I'm with you I'm hoping quadcores won't be 'meager' for some time coming considering I myself have a quadcore but we'll see when I start trying to load up these new puppies on it


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Emanuel @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> but with these multi-core CPUs, will the hard disks not pose limits on what you can play?



what's funny is that even the biggest raptor 10k drives won't be able to hold HS apparently as the total library is going to be around 600gb and the biggest 10k drives I've seen are no where near that and there's nothing close to that in solid state drives yet either unless you're willing to pay thousands of dollars for some custom one so it seems for now we have no choice but to stream these suckers from 7200rpm regular seagates/western digitals


----------



## Rob Elliott (Jan 14, 2010)

Emanuel @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> but with these multi-core CPUs, will the hard disks not pose limits on what you can play?




SSD's=1 TB=$300 (life will be good)


----------



## Stevie (Jan 14, 2010)

1TB SSD for 300$??? WHERE?!?!?!?! :D


----------



## madbulk (Jan 14, 2010)

Everywhere. Eventually.


----------



## madbulk (Jan 14, 2010)

Steven, press on, Dude. 

They can knock 100pts off your credit score, but nobody will come for your samples.


----------



## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

madbulk....

haha


----------



## Peter Alexander (Jan 14, 2010)

$2200 for a 1TB SSD from OCZ

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/ ... onomyId=19


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> $2200 for a 1TB SSD from OCX
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/ ... onomyId=19



anyone know how fast those things are supposed to be compared to platter spinners?? anyone have the numbers for comparative mb/s or gb/s writing/reading capabilities??


----------



## Frederick Russ (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm not as impressed with SSD for streaming as I am for finding and loading applications in a regular daw environment. Based on what I've discovered here so far is that the same bottleneck restrictions apply if you try to stream too many voices regardless of seek times. WD 7200rpm SATA should work fine. Certainly works fine for Vienna & LASS.

Back on topic:

Has anyone heard EW Hollywood Strings yet at NAMM?


----------



## Olias (Jan 14, 2010)

Video is up! www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-strings


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 14, 2010)

http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-strings


----------



## tommalm (Jan 14, 2010)

The EW Hollywood Strings introduction video is availiable over at soundsonline: 

http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-strings

-tom


----------



## Olias (Jan 14, 2010)

Frederick Russ @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> I'm not as impressed with SSD for streaming as I am for finding and loading applications in a regular daw environment. Based on what I've discovered here so far is that the same bottleneck restrictions apply if you try to stream too many voices regardless of seek times. WD 7200rpm SATA should work fine. Certainly works fine for Vienna & LASS.
> 
> Back on topic:
> 
> Has anyone heard EW Hollywood Strings yet at NAMM?



Yeah, I just picked up an Intel 160GB SSD (supposedly the top of the heap for random reads) and it performs better, but not awesomely better. LASS patches load about 2-3 times faster, but I'm not sure they really perform any better. CPU seems more of a bottleneck to be quite honest.

EW isn't at NAMM, I thought?


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

tommalm @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> The EW Hollywood Strings introduction video is availiable over at soundsonline:
> 
> http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-strings
> 
> -tom



the moment the world has awaited....! let's check these bad boys out! GUARD YOUR WALLETS BOYS!!!


----------



## Elfen (Jan 14, 2010)

SOunding great! The script features seem to be really thought out.


----------



## hbuus (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> anyone know how fast those things are supposed to be compared to platter spinners?? anyone have the numbers for comparative mb/s or gb/s writing/reading capabilities??



Here are a couple of links to tests with benchmark numbers:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/win ... 518-4.html
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=856&type=expert&pid=6 (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=85 ... pert&amp;pid=6)

Henrik


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

i think their site is gonna crash, either that or this one! it's the final hour!! come on boys trickle in those reports, my vid is downloading how do these puppies sound????


----------



## Elfen (Jan 14, 2010)

Sounding lush and really textured! Really good, the legato are almost perfect. I did not hear all the video since it's previewed from Vlc. But what I heard gave me goosebumps for it's realism. When they combine mics setup it's impressive the sound you can get with it.


----------



## Marius Masalar (Jan 14, 2010)

Aw balls.

I was hoping they wouldn't sound good. They do. Crap. My wallet is crying. 

Seriously though, gorgeous tone to my ears by the sounds of the video (hoping for some lossless examples soon too...Shawn Murphy knows what he's doing.

So much for saving up....


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Mathazzar @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Aw balls.
> 
> I was hoping they wouldn't sound good. They do. Crap. My wallet is crying.
> 
> ...



I KNOW! I thought i was the only one hoping this lib would be crap so I can get lass lite and save myself a major pretty penny..but this thing is sounding incredible so far. I'm only 2 min into the vid and the legato fast runs are insane!


----------



## Rob Elliott (Jan 14, 2010)

hmmmmm - wonder how many 'pre-sells' they will make today. I know at least one :wink: 

Wow.


Now here's hoping for NO software challenges.


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

hmm I dunno I wasn't that impressed by the rest of the video. Am I crazy or anyone else feel the same. Doesn't sound any better than LASS to me, matter fact doesn't sound any better than my VSL strings. 

Maybe I have to watch the video again..but I'm not sure that I'm quite sold yet.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jan 14, 2010)

I wasn't impressed by what I heard but I only heard about 7 minutes of it, can't seem to make it past that point in either the streamed or downloaded version.


----------



## Pietro (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm impressed (LASS user here).

There is something disturbing in the sound though. It's sooo fat. And all mics together doesn't make sense to me. Close mics for those Cellos did sound like stereo reversed. (?)

- Piotr


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Pietro @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> I'm impressed (LASS user here).
> 
> There is something disturbing in the sound though. It's sooo fat. And all mics together doesn't make sense to me. Close mics for those Cellos did sound like stereo reversed. (?)
> 
> - Piotr



it does sound really thick and fat as opposed to LASS which was famous for being thin when it came out, yet that's good for the divisi writing. HS seemed fat and drowned in reverb. In fact it didn't sound too different than EWQL SO strings to me


----------



## Niah (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm having a hard time download the tutorial but I've found this great exclusive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcC8nPEST6Y

It looks like Nick is having a ball with it.

now feel the groove


----------



## hbuus (Jan 14, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> I wasn't impressed by what I heard but I only heard about 7 minutes of it, can't seem to make it past that point in either the streamed or downloaded version.



Same here, and I wasn't impressed either.
I was expecting something huge; something that would make me go 'wow'.
Perhaps it's in the last part of the video, which we haven't been able to see yet 

Henrik


----------



## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

Is it just mine or after about 7 mins it all goes WHITE NOIS?


----------



## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

Niah @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> I'm having a hard time download the tutorial but I've found this great exclusive:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcC8nPEST6Y
> 
> ...



Wow I know the sound quality is crap but that made it sound like soundfonts haha


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

I don't know what to think of it yet (it also stops at 7 minutes here). The last example around 6:30 does sound really good and the legato sounds promising. Don't know about the runs - they don't sound much better than what can be achieved with staccato samples already, I think. But maybe burried under the rest of the orchestra they will work

However, the earlier examples in the video are just... well. I was hoping for an "out of the box", relaxed Hollywood sound and I don't hear that. The tone of the cellos is still not right to me. It sounds too forced in a way. Also the staccatos etc in the beginning - they sort of sound too full, as if each string section have too much of all frequencies, even though violins are supposed to be lighter in sound, cellos and basses should have - yes, more bass. Of course I know the violins won't exactly have bass in them, but they just sound like they have too much midrange in them, and not that silky smooth sound. Maybe I was hoping for too much, I just thought the whole point of calling this Hollywood Strings and hiring Shawn Murphy, was to get THAT sound out of the box, instead of having to resort to impulses and EQ's to try to achieve it.

However, I am still dying to hear the rest of it. And I will probably end up buying it (even though it is PLAY - maybe I should try running it off a slave PC). But I wasn't blown away. But fairly impressed with all the techniques in it, the mics etc. That's all cool.


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

whoever was able to listen to TJB's "teaser" composition in the end, here's a quick paraphrase of mine of it that I just did in 5 min (so don't expect any special settings or earnest attempt to make my strings sound as good as HS) but these are VSL strings, however old they are from the special edition, nothing special in fact derided by many as one of the worst strings on the market now, yet does it really sound that much different. 


http://www.box.net/shared/ypyejilp7d

yes so HS is better but is it worth 1600? hmmmmmmmmmm


----------



## Elfen (Jan 14, 2010)

Yeah HS is really huge sounding where I prefer the sound of LASS, more air, seems more natural and easier to mix.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> whoever was able to listen to TJB's "teaser" composition in the end, here's a quick paraphrase of mine of it that I just did in 5 min (so don't expect any special settings or earnest attempt to make my strings sound as good as HS) but these are VSL strings, however old they are from the special edition, nothing special in fact derided by many as one of the worst strings on the market now, yet does it really sound that much different.
> 
> 
> http://www.box.net/shared/ypyejilp7d
> ...



No offense but your demo sounds like it's coming from a semi broken Victrola.


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > whoever was able to listen to TJB's "teaser" composition in the end, here's a quick paraphrase of mine of it that I just did in 5 min (so don't expect any special settings or earnest attempt to make my strings sound as good as HS) but these are VSL strings, however old they are from the special edition, nothing special in fact derided by many as one of the worst strings on the market now, yet does it really sound that much different.
> ...




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: then you might want to put your wallet back in your pocket ol' boy cus you won't be impressed with HS lol


----------



## givemenoughrope (Jan 14, 2010)

No, it doesn't. The melody doesn't connect as well and the sound isn't as "fat". Missing some voices in there. Plus, you did it in two minutes. It's a different sound.

I can already see where this is going. LASS (which I just bought but haven't installed yet) is one sound (or lack of imposed sound/ambience) and HS is another. Sounds like HS might be really good on a deadline for certain stuff. 

2 cents


----------



## AndreasWaldetoft (Jan 14, 2010)

Im with Simon on this one... im not sure what to think yet. I need to buy so I can check it out for myself.


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

it's funny how LASS sounds too tinny to me and squealy sounding in the violins and now HS comes and sounds way too drowned in wet reverb and thunderous sounding. Both libraries need massive EQ! Might just stick with my little VSL strings... >8o


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

real curious to hear actual demos though to see how well this ultra fat sound of HS mixes with other orchestral instruments. It's almost as if it's a library designed to be played strings only cus there's almost no headroom left for any other damn family of instruments


----------



## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> whoever was able to listen to TJB's "teaser" composition in the end,



How the hell were you able to do that?

Seriously they need to fix that damn vidƒæ   ¶©}   ¾Éï   ¶ª}   ¾Ê`   ¶«}   ¾ÊÑ   ¶¬}   ¾ËB   ¶­}   ¾Ë³   ¶®


----------



## Sean Beeson (Jan 14, 2010)

Just saw the new video. Very, very awesome


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Olias @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > yes so HS is better but is it worth 1600? hmmmmmmmmmm
> ...



yep not in the same league but given that one library is 5 years older and over 1000$ less expensive? Not exactly the league chasm we would have thought it would have been :shock:


----------



## ChrisAxia (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi guys & girls,

Well, I've just watched the video and am generally very impressed. I also questioned the 'sound', thinking it a little too 'full' and quite the opposite to LASS as someone already mentioned. 

I decided to listen to some John Williams recordings to get my ears 'tuned' to that sound, having spent all day working and listening to my stuff. When I did this, I realised that the TJB demo is sonically very close to the Shawn Murphy/Williams recordings - definitely 'fuller' but far closer than anything I have in my library, and the legato sounds pretty damn good to my ears in that demo!

I'm sure it will be very easy with only a little tweaking of mic positions and reverb to achieve a really beautiful sound. $1500 well spent I reckon.

~Chris


----------



## Olias (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Olias @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...



I hear a huge difference. I don't know why you don't


----------



## JohnG (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm definitely a buyer. 

This library addresses a lot of what I have been missing, including simply "beautiful" strings; some libraries sound realistic, but very austere.

It's too bad for those whose videos stop at 7 minutes; it's not long after that when the library starts to really show off, at least from my perspective (although there's an excerpt at about 6' that I liked a lot -- both "regular" and con sordino). In fact, my least favourite demo is the marcato material that appears first in the video (least impressive because marcato is handled pretty well already by some libraries).

But there is some fantastic stuff in there.

The "regular" tremelo (around 8 minutes in) and the measured tremelo (around 9'15") sound superb to me, especially the "close and main" microphones together at about 9'55" in measured tremelo. This is hugely useful, to me.

Around 14' he shows one of their new plugins ("S. Cal Hall violins") which makes the sound really musical and pleasant. I like this example also as it's starts off mp/mf instead of just big stuff. Big is fine, but smaller-sounding stuff is the next wave (another area in which LASS is nice, for what it's worth). This example also shows off a legato cello / viola ostinato that's in 8th notes (quavers) and sounds very realistic.

And at about 17' there's a live demo -- with one pass -- that shows off something I also find rare: sweet, even beautiful-sounding strings that sound very good, without tweaking.

Final "teaser" piece by Thomas Bergeron starts at about 19' and it also shows off one's ability to create a large-sounding, but gentle piece, something that is often elusive.

I have and like LASS too, but HS is a different animal.


----------



## ChrisAxia (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Olias @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...



I fear you may need to have your ears tested young man. Leaving aside the speed with which you did it, lack of legato etc, the difference is like night & day...

~C


----------



## JohnG (Jan 14, 2010)

ChrisAxia @ 14th January 2010 said:


> I decided to listen to some John Williams recordings to get my ears 'tuned' to that sound, having spent all day working and listening to my stuff. When I did this, I realised that the TJB demo is sonically very close...



I thought exactly the same thing.


----------



## IvanP (Jan 14, 2010)

Sounds pretty good...I was expecting a bigger leap, but it is pretty much in the vein of Lass...it can be intimate and big...

The sus passages and the piece at the end are pretty nice....guys, these are sounds out of the box!!

But, honestly, I was expecting some of the programming and raw sound that I heard in TJ's own solo cello and Violin section demos a few years ago (that demo which played the Home Alone fugatto)

This programming, although good, seems "very polite".

Also, there's something with a few violin lines I didn't quite like that much (problems connecting notes)

But, overall, If I had the money, I would order it....if I didn't have LASS 

I'll buy this, but next year, probably...

Anyway, you can expect some incredible orchestral demos which will convince everyone...


----------



## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

it sounds great....

really great....

SvK


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Olias @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Olias @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...


maybe cus im a noob, or maybe I love me ol' VSL strings too much o-[][]-o


----------



## JohnG (Jan 14, 2010)

Dude, there is no comparison. Sorry.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

Where's the air in this? I tend to use the sound of "E.T." as my reference "Hollywood sound", and this is very far from it. Silky smooth high violins with lots of air. This sounds closer to Appassionata strings actually. Listen at 14:30-15:00, that piece. There's just no air in the violins and the whole sound is very cluttered. And again at 17 with lots of high violins. I wonder how much can be done with EQ.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jan 14, 2010)

JohnG @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> ChrisAxia @ 14th January 2010 said:
> 
> 
> > I decided to listen to some John Williams recordings to get my ears 'tuned' to that sound, having spent all day working and listening to my stuff. When I did this, I realised that the TJB demo is sonically very close...
> ...



I thought I was listening to Minority Report at times.


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

JohnG @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> I'm definitely a buyer.
> 
> This library addresses a lot of what I have been missing, including simply "beautiful" strings; some libraries sound realistic, but very austere.
> 
> ...



I agree to an extent the strings sound a lot like some of the symphobia patches except with good legato scripting (something symphobia sucks at)


----------



## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

Finally heard the whole video. _( note to others the download ZIP file works)_

For the first 7 mins the stuff I liked was the cor sordino, the fast reps... ...LOVE the divisi. 


Wasn't sure about some of the legato stuff on the full sections, though. Regarding measured trems, can you speed up and slow it down like a timemachine type thing?






theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> viva DVZ strings! preorders for DVZ Strings 2 just went through the roof. o-[][]-o o-[][]-o :lol:



Im not sure what is wrong with you, but these strings sounds very cool. At the very LEAST they are directly comparable with LASS, will have to see how much better or worse the are in time. 

The reason I think you are nuts is that...

1. You think your demo is at least just as good as HS. It sounds absolutely nothing like it in the same way a Korg Trition sounds nothing like LASS

2. You are joking about DVZ being comparable, but seriously.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jan 14, 2010)

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----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Unison @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Meanwhile according to Big Fish, Miroslav String Ensemble is now shipping.
> 
> I'm really considering ordering that now. Aren't you?!
> I mean. - It's _a bargain_ $1400 for 6 GB. Who cares there are still no new demos?
> ...



Damn Miroslav Ensemble is the spirit incarnate of DVZ STRINGS. Long live DVZ to defeat the monopolizing monstrosity that is EWQL HS!

o=< o=<


----------



## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 14, 2010)

My overall comments is the very last piece is the icing on the cake. That showed what that EW had put in what all their other libs were missing, and that's nice thick vibrato in the strings. Everything before that sounded too straight.

The last piece felt a bit muddy and disjointed, but I dont' even think it was edited or mixed.

Now it's just the question of cash...

LASS is a great lib, and actually sounds a bit cleaner to me. But the features of HS really blow it out of the water. I think HS mixed with occasional VSL App would be enough.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

Unison @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Meanwhile according to Big Fish, Miroslav String Ensemble is now shipping.
> 
> I'm really considering ordering that now. Aren't you?!
> I mean. - It's _a bargain_ $1400 for 6 GB. Who cares there are still no new demos?
> ...



Not that big is always better, but in this case, I would definitely go with HS


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> My overall comments is the very last piece is the icing on the cake. That showed what that EW had put in what all their other libs were missing, and that's nice thick vibrato in the strings. Everything before that sounded too straight.
> 
> The last piece felt a bit muddy and disjointed, but I dont' even think it was edited or mixed.
> 
> ...


or rather HS mixed with a bit of LASS on the high end for that air that HS desperately needs at the top end


----------



## _taylor (Jan 14, 2010)

[quote:0131b03df1="noiseboyuk @ Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:35 pm"]

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----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Olias @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> You're right, theheresy. EW should do a 48kbps MP3 reduction of their library so it sounds like DVZ strings in those vids. :|


 don't be mad you wasted your $$ pre-ordering HS and didn't discover the true glimmering gem. o/~


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

_taylor @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> noiseboyuk @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > +1 to this, exactly my reaction. I can only conclude that some people were predisposed to not like it... I guess there are plenty of reasons why that might be so - investment in LASS / bad experiences with Play / dislike of EWQL generally are three off the top of my head. I far prefer Kontakt, I'm no EWQL fanboy but I think they've made some great libraries. And this really looks and sounds fantastic. I think they'll recoup their investment quickly enough (assuming it is stable, but actually its still probably true even if it isn't!)
> ...



Yeah those really sounded awesome!


----------



## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> can everyone here please be honest with themselves for a moment.
> Yes HS sounds decent but it in no way shape or form is able to replicate something like this
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn_ShVuY2Yo
> ...



No, not really. Listen to the vibrato in those samples, it sounds as though it's synthetic vibrato. Almost like someone left the modwheel up.

EDIT: Yeah ok, I guess you were joking.


----------



## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> No, not really. Listen to the vibrato in those samples, it sounds as though it's synthetic vibrato. Almost like someone left the modwheel up.


\

And the short notes sound like the worst thing in the world, amplified by their terrible reverb concept which didnt really work out.


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

Vision @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Where's the air in this? I tend to use the sound of "E.T." as my reference "Hollywood sound", and this is very far from it. Silky smooth high violins with lots of air. This sounds closer to Appassionata strings actually. Listen at 14:30-15:00, that piece. There's just no air in the violins and the whole sound is very cluttered. And again at 17 with lots of high violins. I wonder how much can be done with EQ.
> ...



I am not talking about playability, just the sound of it....


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Ed @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > can everyone here please be honest with themselves for a moment.
> ...



you need your ears checked, GPO isn't even in the same metaphysical realm, not even in the same dimensional density


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## zareone (Jan 14, 2010)

Now that you speak of GPO... wasn't GOS2 going to be out like 3 years ago? And GPO Advanced... Garritan hasn't released anything after the Steinway. 

I used to like GPO when started listening to MIDI Mockups. Now I couldn't stand a GPO demo anymore. And DVZ Strings, for what they would cost, sound like a really expensive GPO.


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > can everyone here please be honest with themselves for a moment.
> ...



Wrong. That's just because of the low quality youtube compression. The real Vibrato is far realer than anything in HS.


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

I tried EQ'ing two parts of the demo to see where I could get with it. I know its not the best to EQ all sections in one go. As I thought, I wasn't really able to get back the "lost air", but I think it needs this kind of EQ to get closer to a more open sound if that's what you want:

http://www.simonravn.com/media/HW-clean.mp3
http://www.simonravn.com/media/HW-EQ.mp3

I will remove those again soon, not sure EW likes it, but it's just to do a quick test. Still, far from the smooth "Hollywood sound".


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 14, 2010)

In all honestly, there isn't really a perfect string library with a single solution out there. But HS is very...very close. I could see people using HS for just about everything, but layering some extra strings like VSL or LASS on the top for that airy/thick sound.

Also, I'd like to hear more divisi. Because I didn't really hear anything as full as LASS divisi. Was he just using 1st chair? Because LASS has like 5 different chairs if I remember, and that makes the legato sound VERY realistic.

Still a hard choice. But overall cost wise I might be forced to get LASS at first.


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

it's ok everyone keep wasting your money on HS pre-orders while I get hired to do real hollywood FILMS because my DVZ constructed mockups sound 37,000 leagues above and beyond anything your inferior HS can render.


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## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> you need your ears checked, GPO isn't even in the same metaphysical realm, not even in the same dimensional density


GPO is more comparable to DVZ than DVZ is to HS.


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## hbuus (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy, could you go and make some coffee or something? Then other people could get a chance to post in this thread too :!: 

Henrik


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## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

OK..

The measured trems are insane...very great sounding.
The "tone" of these strings is really great.

The runs are insane...

2 beefs: I do not believe those are NOT real sordinos...i think they just eq'd the non-sordinos....

I also did not hear examples of "growing / evolving" vibrato...

probably still working on those patches...

PS: best leg celli I ever heard...

AWESOME

SvK


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> I tried EQ'ing two parts of the demo to see where I could get with it. I know its not the best to EQ all sections in one go. As I thought, I wasn't really able to get back the "lost air", but I think it needs this kind of EQ to get closer to a more open sound if that's what you want:
> 
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/HW-clean.mp3
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/HW-EQ.mp3
> ...



I didn't like the first few at all. The strings are way too "straight" for me. I wanted much more vibrato expression.

That seemed to change at the end of the video (you didn't capture that piece) though.


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> I tried EQ'ing two parts of the demo to see where I could get with it. I know its not the best to EQ all sections in one go. As I thought, I wasn't really able to get back the "lost air", but I think it needs this kind of EQ to get closer to a more open sound if that's what you want:
> 
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/HW-clean.mp3
> http://www.simonravn.com/media/HW-EQ.mp3
> ...



wow that almost sounded like LASS. Interesting. Still lacking to my ears though. 

HS is basically Symphobia with better legato scripting.


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> it's ok everyone keep wasting your money on HS pre-orders while I get hired to do real hollywood FILMS because my DVZ constructed mockups sound 37,000 leagues above and beyond anything your inferior HS can render.



OK I wasn't even aware DVZ was actually out in public yet. Can you share a demo or two? Would like to hear it.


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## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

zareone @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Now that you speak of GPO... wasn't GOS2 going to be out like 3 years ago? And GPO Advanced... Garritan hasn't released anything after the Steinway..



My guess is GOS2 got put into GPO becuase Gary got used to the easy life of hiring a high schooler to play and record them in their lunch break in a closet somewhere.


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

hbuus @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy, could you go and make some coffee or something? Then other people could get a chance to post in this thread too :!:
> 
> Henrik



bad suggestion, coffee will only make it worse and the posting even mroe rapid. Ok I'll go take a shower. Enjoy everyone. *bows*

o-[][]-o


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 14, 2010)

> I also did not hear examples of "growing / evolving" vibrato...



Agree 100%. This is what I wanted to hear most of all. I use an EWI with my strings, so I'd like to hear real time breath/mod wheel examples.


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Ed @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> zareone @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Now that you speak of GPO... wasn't GOS2 going to be out like 3 years ago? And GPO Advanced... Garritan hasn't released anything after the Steinway..
> ...



I sense great jealousy and fear in you. HS has clouded your mind my son. You will never experience the true power of string writing without DVZ.


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## StrangeCat (Jan 14, 2010)

This just made me decide to buy LASS.


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## SF_Guy (Jan 14, 2010)

Sounds promising... and my ca$h is ready... but I think I'll wait for more demos. :mrgreen:


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Before I go I want to say one last thing.

Damn you all who are able to afford: Cinematic Strings, LASS, HS, and Symphobia and indeed have all of those already with HS pre-order on the way. I envy you greatly


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## ChrisAxia (Jan 14, 2010)

With regard to the TJB demo, don't forget there is NO reverb, and just the close & main mics. I still remember a few years ago how I struggled to make my LSO recordings sound half decent, and believe me, even with extensive mic placements, I had to use a lot of EQ and reverb to get a decent sound! 

~C


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 14, 2010)

StrangeCat @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> This just made me decide to buy LASS.



Care to elaborate?


----------



## nikolas (Jan 14, 2010)

Well...

at least we now have something tangible to talk about.

LASS has been a landmark in strings. Everything is compared to LASS right now, even HS! Even if this feels dangerous for Andrew, I would imagine that he really must feel proud.

I will stand in a comment made by John (G): Yes, HS is a completely different beast to LASS and is worth having! 

Other than that the demos, I'm sure, will blow our minds! There is absolutely no way that any demos will sound "bad" (like the DVZ strings did, or the Miroslav ones do, while available now). 

Still one thing is certain: LASS, HS, Symphobia, cinematic strings. Plenty of landmarks to think about, plenty of choices and choices are good. They also mean that the industry, as opposed to the music/recording industry, is far from dead and that speculation around major companies not attending NAMM is just... numb at best!


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## StrangeCat (Jan 14, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> StrangeCat @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > This just made me decide to buy LASS.
> ...



LASS is richer with more air to the sound. I like the color of the Divisi. I also love that art programming. I find LASS sounds more alive to me. It's just personal preference. I can't get both. I love LASS's sordino sound as well. I guess I just don't want the Hollywood string sound.
See ya


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## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> I sense great jealousy and fear in you. HS has clouded your mind my son. You will never experience the true power of string writing without DVZ.



I really wish you were joking,


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## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

the "lack of air" that some here are complaining about is the fact that you are not hearing the room-noiz (room tone)

when you add that to your mockups (which you should) it creates the illusion that high-strings have a bunch of "zzzzzz", which you mistake for loads of highs, when that is not the case at all.

the tone of HS is immaculate...


SvK


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## tfishbein82 (Jan 14, 2010)

StrangeCat @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Nathan Allen Pinard @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > StrangeCat @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...


Yeah, why restrict yourself to the Hollywood sound when you can have the whole LA sound!


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## AndreasWaldetoft (Jan 14, 2010)

I wanna hear this in a full orchestra mix... nuff said. The technology behind the library is amazing, I just didnt get struck by lightning watching and listening to the tutorial.

Andreas


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 14, 2010)

Ed @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > I sense great jealousy and fear in you. HS has clouded your mind my son. You will never experience the true power of string writing without DVZ.
> ...



I partially agree with you. However, HS has a few extra quirks that make me want it. It's hard to say now anyway (need cash lol)

Meant to quote the other comment about LASS having the "air"

Howe-...wait....he's NOT joking?


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## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

SvK @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> the "lack of air" that some here are complaining about is the fact that you are not hearing the room-noiz (room tone)
> 
> when you add that to your mockups it creates the illusion that high-strings have a bunch of "zzzzzz", which you mistake for loads of highs, when that is not the case at all.
> 
> ...



Yes but Simon has recorded strings before with PP stuff, and I remember him saying that had the air he liked so i assume it is something real that isnt represented here.


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

SvK @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> the "lack of air" that some here are complaining about is the fact that you are not hearing the room-noiz (room tone)
> 
> when you add that to your mockups (which you should) it creates the illusion that high-strings have a bunch of "zzzzzz", which you mistake for loads of highs, when that is not the case at all.
> 
> ...



Uhh.... mostly the demo materials demonstrates the decca tree (overheads) - which DOES capture the room sound. How else are you gonna ADD that sound to the mix? The "room sound" is captured in all the mics capturing the sound of what is going on in the room. So you can't add that and it isn't an illusion. Besides, it's really the strings sounding in the room that you are capturing - the room in itself doesn't make any sizzling noise that you can just put on top of everything and it suddenly, magically sounds more airy. All you will add is some mid/low-HF noise.


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## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon, maybe East West removed the air?


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## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

i mean a consistent , prevailing, room tone hiss, that stays @ a given volume....

SvK


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## Olias (Jan 14, 2010)

Ed @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon, maybe East West removed the air?



I'd love to see all the players wearing oxygen tanks.

Man, that'd be *really* anechoic! It's VSL Silent Stage 2.0!


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

Ed @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> SvK @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > the "lack of air" that some here are complaining about is the fact that you are not hearing the room-noiz (room tone)
> ...



I think this

http://www.simonravn.com/media/Strings.mp3

has much more of the kind of breathing air I was expecting from a Hollywood string library. While I am impressed with all the mic mixing options, the incredible detail in the articulations etc., my main concern is with the actual sound.


----------



## mech289 (Jan 14, 2010)

JohnG @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Dude, there is no comparison. Sorry.


 I agree with this...Not even close.


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

Ed @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon, maybe East West removed the air?



I doubt it - why would they do that? To make it sound worse? They are not insane


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## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon what is this? Which Lib?

SvK


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## choc0thrax (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon why do you even need any more libs when you have PP. 8)


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> it's ok everyone keep wasting your money on HS pre-orders while I get hired to do real hollywood FILMS because my DVZ constructed mockups sound 37,000 leagues above and beyond anything your inferior HS can render.



http://www.audioimpressions.com/products/dvz-strings/


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## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon...so crank it @ 7-9k...Whats the big deal?

SvK


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

SvK @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon what is this? Which Lib?
> 
> SvK



That is the library we did in Prague.


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

SvK @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon...so crank it @ 7-9k...Whats the big deal?
> 
> SvK



Nope, that doesn't bring back what was never recorded, unfortunately.

Besides, the air is more in the 10-15khz range.


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## Rob Elliott (Jan 14, 2010)

Maybe I have been buying sample libraries way too long and my expectations were set accordingly - BUT HS meets my expectations - in fact perhaps exceeds them.


Can I see writing and producing music withOUT this new 'tool' - simply - no. I owe it to my clients. 

Will I remove LASS or even VSL from my hard drives - absolutely not. Me thinks they will all play in the same sandbox nicely. :wink: 


Abbreviated first impressions:


positive:


1. Tone
2. slurred runs
3. sus patches


negative:


1. sometimes 'dodgy' legato transitions (maybe my expectations here were too high but I don't hear a generation leap from existing libraries - of course excepting the slurred runs which I love)

2. Celli and Basses are a little 'wall o sound' (common to so many libraries.) Can sound a bit phasey, thick.



my $.02


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon why do you even need any more libs when you have PP. 8)



You can never have too many options, and of course with scripting and all kinds of new technologies you can do stuff that isn't possible with a regular non-scripted, non-legato library.


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## madbulk (Jan 14, 2010)

Ain't this fun? What's better than this?

My head is kinda spinning though...

LASS was such a leap, this is less of one at first blush. No slight there. Has more to do with LASS.
And thick, holy cow. 
Funny what people were drawn into. I didn't reel at the run stuff. Loved the con sords. Loved the measured trems. Didn't hear enough stacc's to care. Only heard THICK.

Personally I'm dying to hear what a full blown tune sounds like.

Fine, but will it blend?

Yeah, I know. 
TJ.


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## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> SvK @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Simon...so crank it @ 7-9k...Whats the big deal?
> ...



Hey Simon what do you think about Symphobia, does that have air in your opinion?


----------



## Dave Connor (Jan 14, 2010)

Adjustable short articulations! Finally! You know what a pain that is when doing more Classical music? I would think film music as well but in classical you need incrementally different lengths constantly.


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## Vision (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Vision @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...




That's what I mean by playability, it goes hand in hand to me. Sound wise HS has more passion than Appassionata and is more believable. Of course this is my opinion.


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

Ed @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > SvK @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...



Actually I don't own Symphobia so I can't say.


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## Justus (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Don't know about the runs - they don't sound much better than what can be achieved with staccato samples already, I think.


 :shock: 
You can't be serious?


----------



## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

Vision @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Vision @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...



I think that's true, definitely. Let me be more clear then: I was talking about the SOUND of it, sonically, not the way the instruments are played or anything. JUST the sound, the tone.


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## sevaels (Jan 14, 2010)

THATS a great string sound Simon.

Thanks for posting.


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## Christian Marcussen (Jan 14, 2010)

Well. I'm impressed.

Does Play have something like VSL's matrix so you can make keyswitched instruments on the same miditrack?


----------



## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 14, 2010)

sevaels @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> THATS a great string sound Simon.
> 
> Thanks for posting.



Hell, where can I get that? lol


----------



## Olias (Jan 14, 2010)

Christian Marcussen @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Well. I'm impressed.
> 
> Does Play have something like VSL's matrix so you can make keyswitched instruments on the same miditrack?



I guess PLAY Pro will be needed to make custom keyswitches. But all their instruments come with default keyswitches.


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## SvK (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon...i still think this is subjective.....i love the sound of the HS library....

ps: and yes you can still dial in some highs to get some more air if you want it.. engineers do it all day.......

best,

SvK


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## SF_Guy (Jan 14, 2010)

> I'm impressed (LASS user here).
> 
> There is something disturbing in the sound though. It's sooo fat. And all mics together doesn't make sense to me. Close mics for those Cellos did sound like stereo reversed. (?)
> 
> - Piotr



Those Cellos sound stereo reversed to me as well (around 3:58 in the video).


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

SvK @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon...i still think this is subjective.....i love the sound of the HS library....
> 
> ps: and yes you can still dial in some highs to get some more air if you want it.. engineers do it all day.......
> 
> ...



I already tried that and posted an example. It doesn't do the same as if the recordings have been more airy. Not at all.


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 14, 2010)

SF_Guy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> > I'm impressed (LASS user here).
> >
> > There is something disturbing in the sound though. It's sooo fat. And all mics together doesn't make sense to me. Close mics for those Cellos did sound like stereo reversed. (?)
> >
> ...



I think it's just because the cellos on the left were recorded somewhat louder than those on the right. The close mics are not supposed to be in the right room position unless they recorded them panned in position, which I don't think. So you should pan your close mics out to your liking if you want to use them in the mix.


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## SF_Guy (Jan 14, 2010)

Thanks for clearing that up Simon!


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## Vision (Jan 14, 2010)

Anyone notice "Tommy Williams" For the patch name at 16:40? Assuming this is Thomas Bergersens homage to John Williams. Very JW like passage.. Great Stuff.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 14, 2010)

Justus @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't know about the runs - they don't sound much better than what can be achieved with staccato samples already, I think.
> ...



I think Simon's quote was one where I thought "ah yes, there is an agenda here" as it seemed so obviously hyperbolic. I can totally understand and respect comments about preferring the tone of LASS etc, but really....

For me, the string runs in HS are a game changer. Whenever I hear runs in a VI piece, it's always the bit that leaps out. With good programming and good samples, you can go an awful long way in almost every other area... you could convince the vast majority of casual listeners. And yet when the string runs start, it all falls apart. Until today, the best I ever heard was at a marginal "perhaps you'd get away with it buried in a mix". Just hearing the run played wild on the keyboard on the HS demo a broad grin spread across my face. Not total perfection perhaps, but a quantum leap (ha) forward imho.

I'm still exercising some caution with HS, particularly with real world performance, but its pretty exciting to think there's a whole avenue that might well be opened up with this. Seriously - I'd write anything to avoid a fast played run at the moment.


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## Vision (Jan 14, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Justus @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...




I couldn't agree more. Do you realize how long it would take to program those runs with current libraries? Not only that.. but those HS runs were dry.. Imagine doubling those runs with xylophones, woodwinds.. etc. 

Nail on the head, this is a game changer.


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## Dave Connor (Jan 14, 2010)

Are the sordino's _recorded_ sordino's or...?


----------



## Elfen (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > noiseboyuk @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> ...



Man your on a mission!
Very disappointing might be a strong choice of words, as I heard most of the library is sounding great and "Sample development 2.0 standard" (if there is such)
It might not be the holy grail, unbeatable in every corners, but it would be certainly one of two or three major library that can achieve lot of realism. Counting BBB, LASS and such for examples.


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## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

It may look like both Simon and theheresy are negative about the library... but it is actually very different.

*Simon *has very high standards for string sounds.

*theheresy *is just deaf.


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## JohnG (Jan 14, 2010)

It sounds great. An enormous leap forward in many areas, though, naturally, not a replacement for real strings.


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## Vision (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon and Heresy, I could be totally wrong.. but.. I see a lil EW hate here . Please don't take this the wrong way. That's not to say that everything you all are saying is unsubstantiated. But uh.. hmph. 

Simon, perhaps PP is the bar that hasn't been surpassed for you? I can't say because I'll never have it on my hard drive. For now, HS and LASS are my benchmarks for strings. 

In regards to the slur runs.. No they don't sound like the london symphony orchestra is in my living room. They are not perfect. But this is the first library to my knowledge that can pull it off in a way that.. if done right, with further editing and layering, can produce convincingly great results. And with substantially less work. 

Can you show me a commercially available library that can come close to those runs out of the box.. getting those results in real time?


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## Stevie (Jan 14, 2010)

Simon Ravn @ 15th January 2010 said:


> But there isn't. Seriously, I wasn't impressed by the runs.



They have "muddy" and cut attacks as far as I could hear. Didn't like the runs either.


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## sevaels (Jan 14, 2010)

Yeah, I feel the same way :cry: 

Would have loved them to be a 'game changer' as I guess were calling it.

Measured Trems sound nice :D


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## Justus (Jan 14, 2010)

So, if you had "Hollywood Strings" you wouldn't use them?


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Vision @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Simon and Heresy, I could be totally wrong.. but.. I see a lil EW hate here . Please don't take this the wrong way. That's not to say that everything you all are saying is unsubstantiated. But uh.. hmph.
> 
> Simon, perhaps PP is the bar that hasn't been surpassed for you? I can't say because I'll never have it on my hard drive. For now, HS and LASS are my benchmarks for strings.
> 
> ...



what the heck is this "PP" everyone keeps talking about?


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Elfen @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...



Yes I'm on a mission not to be a blind worshipper sheeple. You guys need to stop. This isn't the end all be all until proven otherwise. Just because I don't like how something sounds doesn't mean I'm on some sort of mission. I in fact have several EW libraries including the choirs and have nothing against them, in fact I have nothing 'for' or 'against' any developer, they're all the same to me and unlike many people here I don't know ANY of them personally on a personal basis. 

I feel as if HS is already drifting into that dangerous UNTOUCHABLE territory that LASS experienced for the first few months of its release where it was almost prohibited to say anything negative otherwise you were shunned and scoffed at by everyone. Grow up and have your own mind and intellect, don't be a brainwashed sheeple. I have my own say and am not afraid to express my own opinion. 
And that opinion is that so far this library does not impress me PERIOD. 
However I still might buy it so I'm not saying it's complete crap, I'm just saying it's not the head over heels LASS killer we all thought it would be. Even Thomas J himself said HS will "kick LASS's ass". 
Long way to go before that happens IMO.


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## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> what the heck is this "PP" everyone keeps talking about?



That was already answered. 

Simon, Maarten, Craig and Thomas J (and maybe a couple of others) recorded a private orchestra library in Prague several years ago, hence the nick name Project Prague.


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## johncarter (Jan 14, 2010)

I love the last bits of music , very john williams and kinda schindler's list toward the end.
I especially love the expression just after the small pause
when it goes sad.

These are the most beautiful strings i ever heard.

But kudos to TB for his fantastic string writing. Thats what I call counterpoint


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## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Yes I'm on a mission not to be a blind worshipper sheeple. You guys need to stop. This isn't the end all be all until proven otherwise. Just because I don't like how something sounds doesn't mean I'm on some sort of mission.



theheresy people are acting the way they are to you because you think that VSL sounds comparable and act like DVZ is the best strings EVAR. 

Consequently you might as well have said "_i am deaf and cant tell the difference between a sine wave and a real violin"_. Especially with the DVZ comments...

I understand Simons point of view, but I certainly do not understand yours.


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## Pietro (Jan 14, 2010)

Again watching this.

I think I like it more everyime I listen to it. That partiular softness on those legato lines brings something magical into the music. Especially when you don't stare at that PLAY interface (sounds better with eyes closed )

EW guys did some great job here. There's something that lures the ear.

- Piotr


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Ed @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I'm on a mission not to be a blind worshipper sheeple. You guys need to stop. This isn't the end all be all until proven otherwise. Just because I don't like how something sounds doesn't mean I'm on some sort of mission.
> ...



you're quite a crabby and grumpy fellow aren't you. have you taken your anti-depression meds today?


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## johncarter (Jan 14, 2010)

http://annecywebtv.free.fr/hsremix.mp3

A little remix , added some reverb and some OZONE mastering. I'm not good at mixing but I think adding reverb really makes the library shine


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## Elfen (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Elfen @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...




That's allright my point was more toward your choice of words, since I think it sound great and very dissapointing is not, unless like you said or other said it would become the end it all library which I personaly think is not as I imply in my post. 

As for blind sheepple, I guess you overacted that one, I'm all for critisizing. We've not heard the samples Simon talked about, but based on the given introduction I guess it would be good or maybe great, who know for now. Cheers o-[][]-o


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

johncarter @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> http://annecywebtv.free.fr/hsremix.mp3
> 
> A little remix , added some reverb and some OZONE mastering. I'm not good at mixing but I think adding reverb really makes the library shine



compelling. :mrgreen:


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> johncarter @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > http://annecywebtv.free.fr/hsremix.mp3
> ...



o-[][]-o o-[][]-o 

in the end who cares because I'm probably going to end up buying HS anyway. LOL!

It MIGHT be disappointing in terms of the EXPECTATIONS but that doesn't it's still not the best thing in the world currently available. 
Plus I still have hope that further demos with proper mix/reverb will make it shine much more. 

Now the only question remains...GOLD OR DIAMOND??????????????


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## Stevie (Jan 14, 2010)

Platinum!


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Stevie @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Platinum!




No I'm serious does anyone really think all those extra mic positions is worth 500$ extra bucks?? What do ya'll think??
(o)


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

I just realized that instead of buying diamond, a person can get Gold HS plus LASS LITE for just about the same price.......intriguing option...................................................................


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## Justus (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> I just realized that instead of buying diamond, a person can get Gold HS plus LASS LITE for just about the same price.......intriguing option...................................................................



Just my thought!


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Justus @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > I just realized that instead of buying diamond, a person can get Gold HS plus LASS LITE for just about the same price.......intriguing option...................................................................
> ...



I really am considering this option, it will allow one to own most of the best of both worlds


995$ for gold plus 499$ for lass lite = 1494$ HS Diamond sale price is 1495.00$ wow lol /\~O


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

WOW imagine the possibilities. Imagine a template featuring LASS filled out with HS, how real would that sound palette be? 

any care to sponsor poor composer with 1494$? Finance? pretty please.


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## Stevie (Jan 14, 2010)

I'd rather donate for Haiti. They need it more, sorry...


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

what's funny is that QL inadvertently made HS unpirate-able with its sheer gargantuan size because no one is going to bother uploading/downloading a library close to a terrabyte in size. Don't even need an ilok or dongle or anything with that sort of guaranteed protection. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## tripit (Jan 14, 2010)

Overall the demo sounds somewhat boxy to my ears - the lack of air contributes to this (I agree completely with Simon on this) It was the first thing that jumped out at me when I heard the demo. And because of that, I'm not getting a feeling of having a real section in front of me. It sounds more like samples than LASS does. Otherwise the tone is nice and fat. 

I do like the measured trems, that was the coolest feature. 

The slurred runs are hit and miss for me. It's a tough thing to tackle. I can see how the HS runs would be handy in a faster and more efficient manner. I only wish they had a more convincing attacks and again, some air. 

I can't really tell how great the playability is, and more specifically, in terms of layouts and multi management - LASS with Kontakt has so much control and layout ability that it's super efficient and flexible. I was hoping that with HS they would have addressed some PLAY user/control/GUI issues. 

I think that that HS will find its way into a lot of arsenals. But I was expecting to have my socks blown off and I'm somewhat disappointed that isn't the case. 
I probably still get it, but I'm not in any hurry.


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## Elfen (Jan 14, 2010)

johncarter @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> http://annecywebtv.free.fr/hsremix.mp3
> 
> A little remix , added some reverb and some OZONE mastering. I'm not good at mixing but I think adding reverb really makes the library shine



Here's another quick try, not as much of processing as yours, still I found it is easy to Eq since the recordings are really good and full. I've removed some 125 hz and bring some high end there to get some extra air. :mrgreen: 
http://www.box.net/shared/d6sts48g3r


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 14, 2010)

@ Tripit - it wasn't the tutorial I expected. I expected a lot more individual demos, more like the live presentation that was supposed to have happened yesterday.

So that took me by surprise. 

Nonetheless, you could hear enough to know that it's a library to have.


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## Dan Mott (Jan 14, 2010)

1. Wasn't at all impressed with the divisi.
2. The legato lines sounded amazing, just like a real orchestra and i personally could not tell the difference.

3. The tremolo was fantastic and so was the measured.
4. I think the video in general was harsh, Nick's voice blew my ears away, ouuuch.
5. There was not enough examples to even judge this library yet.
6. I was dissapointed on how very little they showed off the library.
7. Sounds a bit similar to LASS, if not better, but i'm sure there will be comparisons in this forum.

8. I've not made any decision yet and i don't see why anyone else would since those examples went for like 5 to 8 seconds each.

9. I'd be very careful on what you do with your money guys.
10. I wouldn't "yet" say this is a must have library, who knows... maybe LASS might be the must have library after all.

11. I thought it was very annoying, cheap and surprising how Nick said, "I think i'll skip the violas" That's just......................... No comment.


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## Ed (Jan 14, 2010)

Dan-Jay @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> 1. Wasn't at all impressed with the divisi.
> 2. The legato lines sounded amazing, just like a real orchestra and i personally could not tell the difference.



Weird... I had the exact opposite reaction to points 1 and 2. (except I was only unimpressed by the intervals a bit)


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Elfen @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> johncarter @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > http://annecywebtv.free.fr/hsremix.mp3
> ...




and here's a quick demo of my strings. I downloaded a random midi of flight of bumblebee and gave a brief selection of fast runs to compare to the runs in HS demo 
here's runs with VSL and Symphobia. anyone who has LASS can you please do the same to hear how LASS sounds compared to HS with really fast runs? Just google flight of the bumblebee midi and put a piece of the midi to a LASS patch and let it run will be interesting to hear the results. 

symphobia http://www.box.net/shared/m7eyt1n14f

vsl: http://www.box.net/shared/ut16qm6kbg

both: http://www.box.net/shared/dzhb5t6rdh

and here again is my quick VSL mockup of TJB's ending HS 'teaser piece'

http://www.box.net/shared/ypyejilp7d


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## Dan Mott (Jan 14, 2010)

Look, i don't mean to be negative, but i think i over hyped. I was up till 3:44am this morning waiting for the demos, went to bed, got up, downloaded the tutorial and the whole time i was watching it i was saying to my self, "Oh this sounds nice oh... o...what..o..... NOOO!!!! keep playing, why did you stop!!!

After i watched it i said to my self, was i really impressed by that, or was i just sooo hyped up over the very good marketing that EW provided, not to mention memebers talking about it. I was impressed, but i wasn't impressed to the level i thought i was going to be, and what played a big part of that was how unimpressed i was with how the video was put together in general, in my opinion they could of done a wayyyy better job considering they mentioned for soo long that there would be a bunch of demos on HS uploaded to their site.


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

[quote:655e9acac2="Dan-Jay @ Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:44 pm"]Look, i don't mean to be negative, but i think i over hyped. I was up till 3:44am this morning waiting for the demos, went to bed, got up, downloaded the tutorial and the whole time i was watching it i was saying to my self, "Oh this sounds nice oh... o...what..o..... NOOO!!!! keep playing, why did you stop!!!

After i watched it i said to my self, was i reò}¹   ¾û½}¹   ¾û¾}¹   ¾û¿}¹   ¾ûÀ}¹   ¾ûÁ}¹   ¾ûÂ}¹   ¾ûÃ}¹   ¾ûÄ}¹   ¾ûÅ}¹   ¾ûÆ}¹   ¾ûÇ}¹   ¾ûÈ}¹   ¾ûÉ}¹   ¾ûÊ}¹   ¾ûË}¹   ¾ûÌ}¹   ¾ûÍ}¹   ¾ûÎ}¹   ¾ûÏ}¹   ¾ûÐ}¹   ¾ûÑ}¹   ¾ûÒ}¹   ¾ûÓ}¹   ¾ûÔ}¹   ¾ûÕ}¹   ¾ûÖ}¹   ¾û×}¹   ¾ûØ}¹   ¾ûÙ}¹   ¾ûÚ}¹   ¾ûÛ}¹   ¾ûÜ}¹   ¾ûÝ}¹   ¾ûÞ}¹   ¾ûß}¹   ¾ûà}¹   ¾ûá}¹   ¾ûâ}¹   ¾ûã}¹   ¾ûä}¹   ¾ûå}¹   ¾ûæ}¹   ¾ûç}¹   ¾ûè}¹   ¾ûé}¹   ¾ûî}¹   ¾ûï}¹   ¾ûð}¹   ¾ûñ}¹   ¾ûò}¹   ¾ûó}¹   ¾ûô}¹   ¾ûõ}¹   ¾ûö}¹   ¾û÷}¹   ¾ûø}¹   ¾ûù}¹


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

incidentally I heard that Kirk Hunter has new strings and people were raving about them. Has anyone heard these yet and whether they're on par with lass/cs/hs/dvz? (lol)


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## Dan Mott (Jan 14, 2010)

True above.

Another thing, if i was to purchase this product which i can offord, i'd probably go for the gold version since in the tutorial, i couldn't hear much difference between the mic positions at all.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> incidentally I heard that Kirk Hunter has new strings and people were raving about them. Has anyone heard these yet and whether they're on par with lass/cs/hs/dvz? (lol)



LOL...dude, do some downers already will ya?
Kirk hunter was subject to rather entertaining and dramatic thread here a couple of months ago...i dont think anyone wants to go there again for quite some time.


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## choc0thrax (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> incidentally I heard that Kirk Hunter has new strings and people were raving about them. Has anyone heard these yet and whether they're on par with lass/cs/hs/dvz? (lol)



I actually think that's the perfect library to suit your ears.


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> and here again is my quick VSL mockup of TJB's ending HS 'teaser piece'
> 
> http://www.box.net/shared/ypyejilp7d



I just substituted symphobia patches for all the VSL ones in that same mockup example here's a listen to the difference

http://www.box.net/shared/je9obtu4h8


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Pzy-Clone @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > incidentally I heard that Kirk Hunter has new strings and people were raving about them. Has anyone heard these yet and whether they're on par with lass/cs/hs/dvz? (lol)
> ...



wait..huh? You serious? I didn't know about this. I only heard of the Miroslav debacle..so Kirk Hunter dropped the ball too?


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 14, 2010)

Dan-Jay @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> True above.
> 
> Another thing, if i was to purchase this product which i can offord, i'd probably go for the gold version since in the tutorial, i couldn't hear much difference between the mic positions at all.



Agree!
and since it needs to be ( iguess?) drenched in reverb anyways, i dont think it will make THAT big of a difference , not like EWQLSO or nuthing.

I dunno, i think this string lib is very much as i thought it would be, streamlined and plastic sounding, in the typical EW manner. 
That can be a good thing, and that sonic approach certaintly has many fans, this will be a hit i think, becouse unlike LASS and VSL, it requires no knowledge and technical\sonic skills ...and its all in the name "Hollywood"...u know?
No surprises.

Its "just" another great string lib, at this point its hard to impress...but i think this will prove to be more appealing than LAss to many users, becouse of the instant gratification that EW libs usualy have .

Im personally more attracted to the short articulations here, many of which are not sampled before. Short arts is a erea where VSl fails, ..Cinematic strings has only 1, and Lass has just a few as well i guess. This looks great here, altho there were not many examples in this vid.

But the realy kewl thing they mentioned here...is the QL sampled Spaces!
Now that i do want asap!


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Pzy-Clone @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Dan-Jay @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > True above.
> ...



exactly that's what I was saying, it seems 500-600$ extra for mic positions that hardly sound any different is a bit much plus I feel that part of that extra cost is going towards the fact that diamond is shipped on a hard drive whereas gold is shipped on DVD's which seems a safer bet to me anyway


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Pzy-Clone @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> ...



Yeah...they dropped a rather awfull sounding demo here, which eventualy resulted in the dramatic departure of a certified logic trainer (level2 , mind u) leaving in a mist of bitterness and broken dreams.


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

plus the fact that the only OTHER difference between gold/diamond is a few articulations like sordino which apparently is fake anyway not true recorded sordino but eq'd crap.
the divisi from what I understand of it is not true divisi either in how he explained that they did it so it seems gold edition plus lass lite is the way to go perhaps


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Pzy-Clone @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Dan-Jay @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> ...



Well, not that im negative towards it at all, i like that sound too...i just think people have way too high expectations for this, especially after Lass.
Id like to get it, but im afraid if Play...but theres tons of stuff in this lib that is very appealing at a first glance, i think the hi-end demos that will come soon (?) probably will be stellar.

I mean did you see many LASS or VSl dry video presentations on their respective sites? No, VSL would loose biz if they posted their raw untreated lib sound online, so with this in mind, this sounds pretty kewl so far, dont you think?'


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Pzy-Clone @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Pzy-Clone @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...


damn how could I have missed this party. damnit


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Pzy-Clone @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Pzy-Clone @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...



well yes but HS was recorded far more wet than VSL to begin with so by saying HS posted a 'dry' demo isn't exactly accurate. Their "dry" demo sounded far more wet than my VSL with altiverb applied. VSL is BONE dry, I don't even know how they recorded it that dry it literally doesn't even have early reflections lol


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## JohnG (Jan 14, 2010)

Dan-Jay @ 14th January 2010 said:


> i'd probably go for the gold version since in the tutorial, i couldn't hear much difference between the mic positions at all.



Hi Dan-Jay,

If you aren't focused on the differences, maybe consider another listen to the difference when you add both the "Close and Main" to the measured tremelos (around 9'55" in the video). It's enormous, to my ear.

Having the different mic positions in EWQLSO Platinum makes a decisive difference in how much control you get, how much room, what "size" sound you can convey. Given that Nick produced both, I'm counting on a similar thought process for this library and will certainly get Diamond.

Your experience auditioning also will depend on how accurate and detailed your monitoring setup is. 

That said, it's more money and of course more computer resources, so naturally it's not the right choice for everyone.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 14, 2010)

Dan-Jay @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Look, i don't mean to be negative, but i think i over hyped. I was up till 3:44am this morning waiting for the demos, went to bed, got up, downloaded the tutorial and the whole time i was watching it i was saying to my self, "Oh this sounds nice oh... o...what..o..... NOOO!!!! keep playing, why did you stop!!!
> 
> After i watched it i said to my self, was i really impressed by that, or was i just sooo hyped up over the very good marketing that EW provided, not to mention memebers talking about it. I was impressed, but i wasn't impressed to the level i thought i was going to be, and what played a big part of that was how unimpressed i was with how the video was put together in general, in my opinion they could of done a wayyyy better job considering they mentioned for soo long that there would be a bunch of demos on HS uploaded to their site.



Good points. Symphobia and VSL didn't pull it off too bad. Which patch did you use on VSL for that? I've yet to get into all of them. Hard to tell what each one is really for (like most libs)

Also, as far as your TBJ mockup, not bad, but it lacks the expression that TBJ's had with HS. I layer the solo, orchestra, and app strings all together when creating passages like that with an EWI. I might be able to pull off something similar. Could be a challenge.

HS or LASS, kind of simplifies quite a few things though. VSL doesn't simplify the special features both have.

Personally I don't like the mic positions. I like my libs with just a room sound, so I can add Altiverb after that and make it sound fairly realistic.


----------



## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 14, 2010)

The above quote was wrong. I was quoting theheresy's samples.

Btw, whoever posted the extra verb with ozone. That didn't sound too bad. Ozone crushed it too much, but it did sound much more realistic. The verb added more air as well.


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## dcoscina (Jan 14, 2010)

I know this is the web and we all like to complain but my feeling is, if you like HS, buy it. If you don't, buy LASS, or buy Cinematic Strings, or stick with Appassionata Strings or wait until the "definitive" library comes out. Warning: you might be waiting um, like, forever.


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## Dave Connor (Jan 14, 2010)

I think HS has what pros always hope for: usability. To have a sound like that out of the box is pretty darn nice to have. Also the handful of new features like adjustable short articulation lengths, synced tremelos and playing a legato line on top of chords in the left hand (not too mention the best sounding string section sus patch I've heard - usually a throw away patch for writing only) - to name a few - and you have very helpful tools.

No one's going to toss their Appassionata's or Lass but pros are going to gobble up this library is my guess.


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## Dan Mott (Jan 14, 2010)

I think the Adam A5s are good enough to get an accurate sound out of those demos. Yes.... the mic positions were different, but not as much different as they were in SO. When going from close mics, to stage mics was a massive difference, from going to stage mics, to surround mics was also a massive difference.

Since HS was recorded in studio 1, there wasn't much of a difference bewtween mic positions to me, especially main onwards, the surround had that tad more reverb. Also, NO! this library will not be covered in reverb, infact it will be the dryest of string libraries that EW have done, why? because it wasn't recorded in a hall, it was recorded in a big studio so the sound difference which i noticed was quite dry, which is great for control.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 14, 2010)

Just listened to the Cinematic Strings demos for comparison. I almost want to say based on their demos (mainly the demo "why") they have the best overall sound when it comes that "Hollywood" sound, including LASS. That's all they really have going, but damn it's a nice sound. 

The next step is hearing demos that are professionally, and amatuerly done with HS.


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## dcoscina (Jan 14, 2010)

I have both Cinematic Strings and LASS and while CS is a very fine library, I haven't gotten the kind of expression out of it that I heard Thomas J get at around 6 minutes into the tutorial. On the surface, they may sound similar but listen deeper and you can tell the difference in the connection between notes, the small variations in vibrato and intonation in the HS version. It's as close to a real string section I have ever heard from a sample library.


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## gsilbers (Jan 14, 2010)

sounded like the other libraries out there... its own 
sound of course but not a cut above.
but as someone mentioned... its too little too judge. 

ill try them at namm saturday and get a 1st hand opinion. lass will be there so i can run back and forth to compare.


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

[quote:d095eb82c8="gsilbers @ Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:59 pm"]sounded like the other libraries out there... its own 
sound of course but not a cut above.
but ò}ä   ¿¨}ä   ¿©}ä   ¿ª}ä   ¿«}ä   ¿¬}ä   ¿­}ä   ¿®}ä   ¿¯}ä   ¿°}ä   ¿±}ä   ¿²}ä   ¿³}ä   ¿´}ä   ¿µ}ä   ¿¶}ä   ¿·}ä   ¿¸}ä   ¿¹}ä   ¿¾}ä   ¿¿}ä   ¿À}ä   ¿Á}ä   ¿Â}ä   ¿Ã}ä   ¿Ä}ä   ¿Å}ä   ¿Æ}ä


----------



## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Dan-Jay @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Look, i don't mean to be negative, but i think i over hyped. I was up till 3:44am this morning waiting for the demos, went to bed, got up, downloaded the tutorial and the whole time i was watching it i was saying to my self, "Oh this sounds nice oh... o...what..o..... NOOO!!!! keep playing, why did you stop!!!
> ...



in VSL it was the appassionata staccatos layered with regular orch. legato patches. 

for symphobia it was regular staccato patches (this is all for the bumblebee demo)

for the TJB mockup it was sustain/legato patches layered for vsl with solo instrument sus/portamento layers for each string family group and for symphobia it was regular sustain patch layered with dynamic sustain patches


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## rgames (Jan 14, 2010)

Definitely some nice sounds in there. Overall though, I'm not overly impressed.

- fast legato not convincing - bummer, I was really hoping this would be the one :(
- con sordino doesn't sound like con sordino to me
- low cellos have a really hyped sound - on first listen I though there was a contrabassoon at the beginning
- not enough "nasal bow crunch" on the cello/bass
- overall sound is very warm - sounds like everything has been LP filtered
- no smart way to organize artic's like VSL's matrix

I think the advantage of this library is its "out of the box" warm sound. However, I think it's possible to produce the same sound with EQ/exciter on other libraries.

rgames


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## Dan Mott (Jan 14, 2010)

HS sounds very real indeed. In the long run it would be a hard choice between LASS and HS, HS i believe takes it that step further when it comes to control over your samples and that is what i'd call a LASS control killer, but the sound?? ....... I haven't made up my mind yet because LASS sounds quite similar in some parts. The part that Thomas played at the end was infact amazing and soo real i can't tell you how impressed i was. I would also say the LASS is the HS divisi killer.

Fake sordino??? That sounds like a dog act to me, this can't be right.....??

I'm definatly not an EW hater, never was, never will be, infact i believe i'd be up there in the ranks of most money spent on their products, believe me it's true. 

HS has the control i want hands down, LASS infact doesn't and now it's all up to the sound between the two. That video was unimpressive and quite anoying to listen to of how little they showed, i and many others are yet to hear what HS can actually do sound wise, that video tutorial was a snippet and i will not judge the sound based on that and i believe especially for the haters out there that i wouldn't be so quick to judge, just need to wait a little bit more for some true examples.

PS - You know how in life, when you get impressions of people when you meet them for the first time, for example you'll meet this person and from about 2 hours spent with them let's just say you thought they were arrogant, that's an impression yes? but at the same time you're willing to give them another shot, so you organise to hang out with that person again. My point is, from what i heard from the demo, from what i've seen Doug Rogers write in the forums, i get the impression that EW seem a little scared or paranoid about exposing the library, i mean where are the actuall demos, they don't have any, they delayed the date about 6 times, Nick says a comment like "I think i'll skip the violas" what is one supposed to think? It's like they weren't confident at all, that's just my first impression.


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## dcoscina (Jan 14, 2010)

You know, what is it with all this "divisi" stuff anyhow? I have yet to hear someone write in this manner in a contemporary setting except for Jimmy Horner and Chris Gordon if you're talking that past few years. I don't hear it from Zimmer, Tyler, or anyone else.
Then you have to go back to Vaughan Williams and Arvo Part- and Gorecki.


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## dcoscina (Jan 14, 2010)

I do think LASS does do this well and, so far, I have yet to hear as amazing short articulations from any other lirbary.


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## Reegs (Jan 14, 2010)

Does anyone know the specs on the machine they were using to demo? I was very impressed by the core load. Do you think it will hold up on lesser machines?

I liked the demo and thought it did some creative things, but yeah, it wasn't blow-your-pants-off amazing. Will I buy it? Possibly, but not at the moment. I'll wait for the first user base to iron out all the bugs  

One thing I thought the demo didn't really touch on was soft section dynamics. I wonder how those samples and its set of harmonics fare on emultating the subtle and tender side of Hollywood.


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Dan-Jay @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> HS sounds very real indeed. In the long run it would be a hard choice between LASS and HS, HS i believe takes it that step further when it comes to control over your samples and that is what i'd call a LASS control killer, but the sound?? ....... I haven't made up my mind yet because LASS sounds quite similar in some parts. The part that Thomas played at the end was infact amazing and soo real i can't tell you how impressed i was. I would also say the LASS is the HS divisi killer.
> 
> Fake sordino??? That sounds like a dog act to me, this can't be right.....??
> 
> ...



you bring up some very good points. after all this big wait the demo seems almost rushed. there's a stack of like 25 different articulations yet they only show like 2 different ones and you're right the "let's skip the violas" thing seemed a tad suspicious, are they hiding something? 

@rgames: absolutely on that legato run if you see the mockups I did with VSL and symphobia is the HS legato slur runs that much better? No in fact they almost sound worse

@doscina: good point, no one writes in divisi anyway, everyone likes to act elitist like "ho ho ho yea I'm a big time fugue writer I can do divisi" when 90% of people on this forum probably never even heard the term 'divisi' before prior to LASS's release and still don't even know what the hell it means let alone will ever be able to actually write in a contrapuntally interesting enough manner to even warrant a true divisi library.

Let's be honest everyone just wants to sound like Hans Zimmer out of the box. They want to buy a library, grab fingers full of fat chords and pump away with a perfect pirates of the caribbean type sound. And if anything HS seems to offer a bit of that.


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## Dan Mott (Jan 14, 2010)

Also, did anyone notice that when Nick was playing the cello and going through the different mic positions, that the close mics where panned left, then the rest were panned right?? Hmm.....


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## theheresy (Jan 14, 2010)

Dan-Jay @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> Also, did anyone notice that when Nick was playing the cello and going through the different mic positions, that the close mics where panned left, then the rest were panned right?? Hmm.....



what are you suggesting here? I'm afraid I don't follow...


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## Dan Mott (Jan 14, 2010)

theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Dan-Jay @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, did anyone notice that when Nick was playing the cello and going through the different mic positions, that the close mics where panned left, then the rest were panned right?? Hmm.....
> ...




Sorry, i'll explain better.

Watch the demo again and skip to about 3:34, at this point he plays some notes with the celli, showing you all the mics and how different they sound from one another. However, listen to the first example, you'll notice that the celli is panned to the left, after that he changes to the main mics, these go to the right, the celli is ment to be panned to the right.......well they don't have to be, but in this example the close mics with the celli are definatly panned to the left, not the right, and the rest fo the mic positions are to the right.


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## nikolas (Jan 14, 2010)

dcoscina @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> You know, what is it with all this "divisi" stuff anyhow? I have yet to hear someone write in this manner in a contemporary setting except for Jimmy Horner and Chris Gordon if you're talking that past few years. I don't hear it from Zimmer, Tyler, or anyone else.
> Then you have to go back to Vaughan Williams and Arvo Part- and Gorecki.


I don't know about you, but LASS divisi options is being used regularly by me. And not only in a manner of "having different thickness" in writting, but also as true divisi, since I like to have control over my clusters and stuff... :D

I guess I'm the 10% theheressy mentioned! 

But maybe, just maybe, the additional capabilities of a tool will also help users LEARN more and USE more these features... who knows...


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## john rodriguez (Jan 14, 2010)

Pietro @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> If I'm not mistaken, I remember Doug saying this is simulated sordino (EQ).
> 
> - Piotr



I think NP mentioned that it was modeled in one of their posts, not recorded.


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## germancomponist (Jan 14, 2010)

> *theheresy*-what's funny is that QL inadvertently made HS unpirate-able with its sheer gargantuan size because no one is going to bother uploading/downloading a library close to a terrabyte in size. Don't even need an ilok or dongle or anything with that sort of guaranteed protection.



Interesting..., was that your first thought about this lib and why?

BTW.

I and my ears like what we have heared. The name of this EW library says it all: Hollywood Sound! 

The different mic positions are a so good thing, BRAVO! I can`t understand people who do not hear this different..... .

The adjustable short articulations! Also very cool! Here the most libs sucks..., because the staccatos are recorded only in one "tempo".

Please do not forget: This HS demo is done out of the box! *OUT OF THE BOX! *Just do this with other libraries..... .

Ok, synced tremolos...., with this I have a problem a little bit, but lets listen to other/more demos. 

Congratulations, East-West! o-[][]-o 

BTW: HS & LASS, I think these both libs together could be a wonderful team.


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## Trev Parks (Jan 14, 2010)

Like LASS, so much time and effort must have gone into making this I'm standing in the crowd and clapping as hard as possible. I always find EW stuff so sonically rich and effective; you can hear the passion that's so obviously invested in the projects reflected in the sounds/instruments themselves. Nothing's perfect, but, based on what I've heard so far, this is one bloody impressive sounding library.

I only recently bought LASS and have many miles to travel with it this year so wont be buying and incorporating HS just yet, but it will happen. The trems, runs and emotionally compelling vibrato make this a must-have at some point in the future.


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## germancomponist (Jan 14, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > @doscina: good point, no one writes in divisi anyway, everyone likes to act elitist like "ho ho ho yea I'm a big time fugue writer I can do divisi" when 90% of people on this forum probably never even heard the term 'divisi' before prior to LASS's release and still don't even know what the hell it means let alone will ever be able to actually write in a contrapuntally interesting enough manner to even warrant a true divisi library.
> ...



LOL I agree! o-[][]-o


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## Christian Marcussen (Jan 15, 2010)

Elfen @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> johncarter @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > http://annecywebtv.free.fr/hsremix.mp3
> ...



I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if someone told me this were real strings I would beleive them. Who would have thought we would reach that point?


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## choc0thrax (Jan 15, 2010)

Christian Marcussen @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Elfen @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > johncarter @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...



You can't hear how synthy those first few notes are?


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## Vision (Jan 15, 2010)

theheresy @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> @rgames: absolutely on that legato run if you see the mockups I did with VSL and symphobia is the HS legato slur runs that much better? No in fact they almost sound worse
> 
> @doscina: good point, no one writes in divisi anyway, everyone likes to act elitist like "ho ho ho yea I'm a big time fugue writer I can do divisi" when 90% of people on this forum probably never even heard the term 'divisi' before prior to LASS's release and still don't even know what the hell it means let alone will ever be able to actually write in a contrapuntally interesting enough manner to even warrant a true divisi library.
> 
> Let's be honest everyone just wants to sound like Hans Zimmer out of the box. They want to buy a library, grab fingers full of fat chords and pump away with a perfect pirates of the caribbean type sound. And if anything HS seems to offer a bit of that.



Man you must be smokin that good stuff. Let me get this straight.. a few posts back you said that DVZ strings sounded great. And now the HS slur runs demo.. "in fact they almost sound worse" than your mock up.. 

You're really Ashton Kutcher right.. VI-Control is being PUnk'd right?? 

We are all entilted to our own opinions, but wow oh wowwwwww dude. 

"see the mockups I did with VSL and symphobia is the HS legato slur runs that much better? No in fact they almost sound worse"

WhAT?!???


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## Christian Marcussen (Jan 15, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Christian Marcussen @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Elfen @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...



Sure, if I'm over analytical. They don't stick out so much that I would go "those aren't real". I think we need to keep in mind that we are listening to something we know is sampled, and that clouds are judgement a bit I think.


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## ChrisAxia (Jan 15, 2010)

Simon Ravn @ Thu Jan 14 said:


> ChrisAxia @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys & girls,
> ...



Good morning Simon,

Surely if Shawn Murphy struggles to hear above 6KHz, this would lead him to apply more high frequency EQ, not less? I'm sure Mr Williams has a say in how his music sounds, and don't forget that tastes and trends change. Jurassic Park and E.T have that very hyped top end but would that sound have worked well for Minority Report? 

Having said that, I'm sure we'll be able to achieve a 'hyped' sound far more easily than with other libraries. Why do I say that? Most other libraries have harsh sounding violins, and EQ is needed to cut the offending frequencies. HS already sounds smooth, so adding top end will not bring out harsh frequencies because they don't appear to be there in the first place!

~C


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## Simon Ravn (Jan 15, 2010)

theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Stevie @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Platinum!
> ...



I think it would be stupid to settle for 16-bit, only one mic choice and the missing articulations (like divisi) because of just $500. If you're a professional, 500 is nothing in this respect and you will be missing out on a lot of stuff. I would only settle for "gold" if I couldn't in any way afford the full package.


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## hbuus (Jan 15, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > @doscina: good point, no one writes in divisi anyway, everyone likes to act elitist like "ho ho ho yea I'm a big time fugue writer I can do divisi" when 90% of people on this forum probably never even heard the term 'divisi' before prior to LASS's release and still don't even know what the hell it means let alone will ever be able to actually write in a contrapuntally interesting enough manner to even warrant a true divisi library.
> ...



theheresy:

I think I speak for several people here in saying that you should seriously consider cutting down on the number of posts you make, as well as the rate by which you post them. If everybody started posting replies as often, or rather: as rapidly, as you do, it would ruin the forum completely, don't you think? You are entitled to state your opinion just like everybody else, but please show some courtesy towards your fellow forum members. It would be in everybody's interest, not least your own, if you gave this a little thought, I would think.

Kind regards,
Henrik


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## stevenson-again (Jan 15, 2010)

well,

i'll schtick an opinion in here, because frankly we haven't had enough of them....

i am pretty much with SvK. i think it sounds fantastic - but was the least impressed by the end piece. i thought the runs were excellent, but for 90% of the time i would agree with simon ravn that you can get away with staccato patches quite a lot of the time. however, knows what this extra capability might offer?

it is clearly rich sounding and very detailed with plenty of life about it. the key thing is not, whether it is good better or best, but whether it will stand in the way or facilitate a musical idea. its your tunes and musical decisions that make a good piece of music.

i have one concern though. while it sounds great out of the box, i am worried about how it will work in the context of writing. i have no experience with play, but i have enjoyed being able to select articulations with program changes in kontakt. using the kontakt instrument banks (i devised a similar system for the exs years and years ago) i can keep everything very efficient. i am worried that to set something similar up is going to be very fiddly.

ideally i would like (as i currently do with LASS) to set all my string sounds up in one instance. i would want the same mic combination for all sections and presumably that is what would happen - but i have many many many articulations per section. and they are really easy manage and swap in and out of, using the kontakt bank system.

i also like blending and using other libraries - we all have our fave sounds. i have custom string harmonics i like to incorporate into my template. with kontakt that is no problem, but it looks to me like i would be out of luck with this PLAY player for HS.

in the end, there are many libraries with which you can create wonderful music that is wonderful sounding, and i have absolutely no doubt that HS is going to be really great and a joy to use, but i worry about the lack of flexibility, not with the sound, but organization and interchangiblity.


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## Jaap (Jan 15, 2010)

I like HS from what I heard from that video, but it was not as groundbreaking as I thought it would be

Pro's

- Great sound, very full and rich
- Gazillion of articulations
- Nice legato's

Con's

- runs didn't do it for me
- though I liked sordino sound, it was more like "I like that sound" instead of sounding as real sordino


I think this video was just too short and too limited to give a really good full impression. I think we heard only 1% of the capabilities and company demos and user demos and reviews will give us more insight I think.

Definately a library that I am planning to purchase, but for now I keep a bit an eye out on some full demos from EW and users.


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## Waywyn (Jan 15, 2010)

Simon Ravn @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Stevie @ Thu Jan 14 said:
> ...



Have to agree here. Those mic positions are damn really important and to be honest, the FIRST TIME EVER, I feel like hearing strings as if I would sit in front of them.

I think all those mic positions are definitely worth it, because this is what makes DA ROOM!  ... that's what we are all longing for, no?

I recently had a recording session for Sarah Brightman in Prague and I had a big smile on my face when I got all those different mic position stems (close, decca tree, far and surround mics) ...

Of course taste differs etc. but honestly I would always prefer a library with several mic positions since you simply can't get REAL with Altiverb and co ... you can just get a bit closer, but never get the real deal.


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## Stephen Baysted (Jan 15, 2010)

Sounds absolutely stellar. Scarily good in fact. I just hope PLAY is able to handle a big template with lots of articulations loaded up. 

I have to say that PLAY is pretty much rock solid here on an i7 with 12gb ram and Win7 64bit. So here's hoping it can handle it; it better because I've just pre-ordered it. :mrgreen:


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## George Caplan (Jan 15, 2010)

I think this sounds good and for the price of a quarterly heating bill is certainly on my list when I get the necessary equipment needed.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 15, 2010)

Hey...i know this is a bit anal,. but for the sake of curiosity and comparison, i did a short AB with the Appass cellos from my existing template, and the HS cellos from the video demo.

http://www.box.net/shared/ebcjrmka21

I dont think they are miles apart...but in all fairness, The vsl stuff is very processed here, and run to 2 reverbs.

Anyway, the first 2 examples are without a tail, the 2nd 2 are with a tail, and the last are both together. You can probably tell which is which..
I think the HS legatos sound better, and they also have fuller more rich sound IMO.

I just found it interesting to see how "comparable" the older VSl stuff is, like someone said here , hope its ok to post this .

Watcha think?

Edit: Oh and btw...HS has a button that says "other". u cant press it, u dont know what it does at all it just says "other" LOL...thats funny, i want one of those :D


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## Justus (Jan 15, 2010)

Yes, it's definitely comparable.

EDIT: You could try further EQing. HS has more bass and less bowing noises. May be you could get even closer by tweaking these frequencies.


LOL, The "other" button was fun and will make history...


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## theheresy (Jan 15, 2010)

does anyone really know if 16bit vs. 24bit samples makes that much of a difference to warrant the 500$ extra? Can anyone post a short demo even if it's only a few notes from LASS 24bit patch vs. the same patch with LASS 16bit


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 15, 2010)

Justus @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Yes, it's definitely comparable.
> 
> EDIT: You could try further EQing. HS has more bass and less bowing noises. May be you could get even closer by tweaking these frequencies.
> 
> ...



yeah, but i did not attempt to copy the sound of HS here, it can no doubt be eq`d to more closely match...but i aint gonna spend time on doing that 

yeah EW gots a "other" button....TA-DA....take that , Vienna. :D


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## Justus (Jan 15, 2010)

They could have chosen another title for the button,
something like "Secret Script", "Magic Button" or "Push me"...


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## theheresy (Jan 15, 2010)

Pzy-Clone @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Justus @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, it's definitely comparable.
> ...



like I said previously they don't sound ground breakingly ahead of the VSL samples enough to warrant 5 years technological advantage and 1000$ price differential. Sounds only like a minor step forward. But we'll have to see them more in action and in the context of an actual musical work i.e. within the context of other orchestral sounds.


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## hbuus (Jan 15, 2010)

Pzy-Clone @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Edit: Oh and btw...HS has a button that says "other". u cant press it, u dont know what it does at all it just says "other" LOL...thats funny, i want one of those :D



You have to speak this out loud:

"I'd like to know what the OTHER-button means."

Then a few seconds pass, and a voice (which sounds uncannily like grand old man Jack Nicholson) says:

"YOU GOTTA ASK NICELY!"

 

Henrik


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## futur2 (Jan 15, 2010)

Pzy-Clone @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> U know...as shocking as this might sound, not every post here is a direct question to you...



hallelujah :!:

more to the subject, HS sounds fucking awesome


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## JohnG (Jan 15, 2010)

We are all glad to hear from everyone, but in any conversation, there needs to be a balance of give and take, heresy. 

You've given us a lot to think about, but some of your posts reflect the all-over-the-place vibe of someone writing hastily. Particularly given that you are, as you have said, relatively inexperienced, perhaps you ought to consider giving a little bit of weight to what some of the more experienced people are writing.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 15, 2010)

theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> a post on a forum is a direct question/comment to the entire forum. If you can't handle a response from the very demographic you're posting to perhaps you need to rethink whether you are too sensitive to use forums or not, instant messaging and AIM are more up your alley. :mrgreen:



Please respect the friendly atmosphere of this forum - I am sure others have felt the same about your posts.

And, maybe you do not yet have a correct impression of the older forum members here (you are here now for 44 days). A lot of the V.I. members are trained musicians and/or composers and work in the music business for a living. So, making bashing remarks about divisi writing and "most" just wanting to be Hans Zimmer The Sequel will not make you popular.

We do love humor, though


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## theheresy (Jan 15, 2010)

JohnG @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> We are all glad to hear from everyone, but in any conversation, there needs to be a balance of give and take, heresy.
> 
> You've given us a lot to think about, but some of your posts reflect the all-over-the-place vibe of someone writing hastily. Particularly given that you are, as you have said, relatively inexperienced, perhaps you ought to consider giving a little bit of weight to what some of the more experienced people are writing.



I shall acquiesce to your wise teachings JohnG, truly my favorite poster here! You are too respectful in your exhortation for me to not yield my outrageous posting rapidity. (hey I can't help that I type real fast, chalk it up to being a pianist) (o)


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## Craig Sharmat (Jan 15, 2010)

theheresy

You have made your point and I would presume all readers here get what your opinion is, this is a generally a very intelligent and passionate group here. You have made multiple posts and i suggest staying a bit lower in profile until more news about HS comes our way.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 15, 2010)

theheresy,

The mods are receiving Reports about your posts. Don't take it too far.


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

The more I listen to the HS demo, the more I like this great *sound*.


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## dcoscina (Jan 15, 2010)

I think this tutorial is a really interesting barometer for ascertaining one's personality. You can be glass is half full, lauding it for its expressive, beautiful tones, or glass half empty criticizing the length of the actual examples, the occasional note release that sounds off, and deriding those who pre-ordered it on the faith of quality EW brings to the table 99% of the time. 

Yes, I was one of those "fools" who pre-ordered not having heard it because I did have the funds availabel and I have enjoyed working with EW products since 2004. I have also worked with real strings and attend concert performances regularly. I championed LASS for the same reason- it sounds real. I would say HS has a more full sound while LASS gives one a sense of real detail. These two libraries will work fine in tandem and I applaud both Doug/Nick/Thomas for HS as well as Andrew K for the strides they have made in the world of orchestral sample libraries. I give an extra shout out to Andrew K who was the first to get his product out first and go through a few growing pains.

psy-clone, you will enjoy Cinematic Strings I believe. It's also a fine library and I also use it. I would say that it might suffer a bit more from neglect once HS is loaded on my computer just because it also resides in the lush, warm, cinematic category. But I always like options.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 15, 2010)

If I get this tv gig I'm gunning for my first purchase will be HS Gold or whichever gives you mic options.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jan 15, 2010)

"I give an extra shout out to Andrew K who was the first to get his product out first and go through a few growing pains."

Dave while I agree that Andrew did a great job with his library I am sure almost all developers who have come up with string libraries before would disagree with this, especially VSL who came first with legato.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 15, 2010)

Didn't Gary have some rudimentary legato already in GOS?


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## theheresy (Jan 15, 2010)

Emanuel @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> theheresy,
> 
> The mods are receiving Reports about your posts. Don't take it too far.



don't take what too far? Didn't you see I already yielded to all your benevolent requests, now you guys are taking it too far in warning me further when I have already yielded 8)


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## Craig Sharmat (Jan 15, 2010)

Emanuel @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Didn't Gary have some rudimentary legato already in GOS?



Gary had a pedal thing where when you switched notes it cut off the last one.


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## Ian Livingstone (Jan 15, 2010)

yeah if I remember it was just a simple mono-mode - although it may have ommited the attack on the overlapped note can't remember....


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## Jonathan Kranz (Jan 15, 2010)

BTW the video barely scratched the surface of what this library can do =o


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 15, 2010)

Hehe, in those days we had even a LOT more discusions about EQing strings :D


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## dcoscina (Jan 15, 2010)

Jonathan Kranz @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> BTW the video barely scratched the surface of what this library can do =o



Yes, I got thaò~l   ¿,K~l   ¿,L~l   ¿,M~l   ¿,N~l   ¿,O~l   ¿,P~l   ¿,Q~l   ¿,R~l   ¿,S~l   ¿,T~l   ¿,U~l   ¿,V~l   ¿,W~l   ¿,X~l   ¿,Y~l   ¿,Z~l   ¿,[~l   ¿,\~l   ¿,]~l   ¿,^~l   ¿,_~l   ¿,`~l   ¿,a~l   ¿,b~l   ¿,c~l   ¿,d~l   ¿,e~l   ¿,f~l   ¿,g~l   ¿,h~l   ¿,i~l   ¿,j~l   ¿,k~l   ¿,l~l   ¿,m~l   ¿,n~l   ¿,o~l   ¿,p~l   ¿,q~l   ¿,r~l   ¿,s~l   ¿,t~l   ¿,u~l   ¿,v~l   ¿,w~l   ¿,x~l   ¿,y~l   ¿,z~l   ¿,{~l   ¿,|~l   ¿,}~l   ¿,~~l   ¿,~l   ¿,€~l   ¿,~l   ¿,‚~l   ¿,ƒ~l   ¿,„~l   ¿,…~l   ¿,†~l   ¿,‡~l   ¿,ˆ~l   ¿,‰~l


----------



## ChrisAxia (Jan 15, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> SvK @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Pzy-Clone @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> ...



+2 - Good test Pzy!


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 15, 2010)

theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> like I said previously they don't sound ground breakingly ahead of the VSL samples enough to warrant 5 years technological advantage and 1000$ price differential. Sounds only like a minor step forward. But we'll have to see them more in action and in the context of an actual musical work i.e. within the context of other orchestral sounds.



I think we must have different ears! Honestly, I can't imagine a better demo for HS than comparing against the Symphobia and VSL versions you kindly posted. If that's "a minor step forward", I can't really comprehend what a major one would be. I think I'd need holograms of the actual musicians beaming out of my PC to qualify.

That final piece was one when first heard it where I thought "wow, that sounds really nice for real-time playing, but I'm not sure it's THAT convincing". But hearing it against VSL showed just how far the bar had been raised.


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

Sorry to say that, but when I read the posts from *theheresy *I ask to myself: Is he knowing about what he is talking about....?


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 15, 2010)

Gunther,

Maybe...

Personally I find his posts not in a style that we are used here, but that we often see on other forums. Kind of machine-gun effect 

He has received some feedback now on this, I guess.

All the best!


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## JohnG (Jan 15, 2010)

Though I agree with the opinions on the string sound -- HS is much better, in my view -- heresy has eased way up and maybe we should ease up on him too.

Besides, he paid me a compliment...


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## Jonathan Kranz (Jan 15, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Jonathan, allow me to ask this: The next videos, could you do them also in a more windows friendlyer format? I do not know why, but very often the movie-player crashes my PC system...



Thanks Gunther, I'll see if we can do that. Do you have the latest Quicktime version installed on your windows machine?

-Jonathan


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

John, 

I wanted to buy your last score but paypal asked me for a credit card. I never use my credit-card at the internet. Can you pm me your paypal adress, please?

My best,

Gunther


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 15, 2010)

Jonathan Kranz @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Jonathan, allow me to ask this: The next videos, could you do them also in a more windows friendlyer format? I do not know why, but very often the movie-player crashes my PC system...
> ...



I was able to associate the .mov extension with Windows Media Player and it was able to play it - albeit after a warning. Maybe this is because I have QT Lite installed (for being able to play QT files in a browser)? Apple software (like QT) always gives me lots of trouble on PCs.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 15, 2010)

SvK @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Pzy-Clone @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey...i know this is a bit anal,. but for the sake of curiosity and comparison, i did a short AB with the Appass cellos from my existing template, and the HS cellos from the video demo.
> ...



yeah...lol, altho now i think i cannot use the VSL celli ever again without hearing that quacking duck 

The eq for the Appass celli is pretty drastic here tho, but the HS seems to have this subdued, yet fat sound that just cant be preproduced with VSL.
Could prolly add some more lo end, but those crazy frequencies in the VSL lowrange would ruin the party....


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

Jonathan Kranz @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Jonathan, allow me to ask this: The next videos, could you do them also in a more windows friendlyer format? I do not know why, but very often the movie-player crashes my PC system...
> ...



Yes I have. The problem is: When I have watched only one video with movie-player, than I can`t listen mp3`s with the Windows mediaplayer and also can`t work again with Cubase. I then always must first restart my PC.... . 

Gunther


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

Emanuel @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> .....
> I was able to associate the .mov extension with Windows Media Player and it was able to play it - albeit after a warning. Maybe this is because I have QT Lite installed (for being able to play QT files in a browser)? Apple software (like QT) always gives me lots of trouble on PCs.



Oops, where can I download it, Emanuel?


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 15, 2010)

> Here's another quick try, not as much of processing as yours, still I found it is easy to Eq since the recordings are really good and full. I've removed some 125 hz and bring some high end there to get some extra air. Mr. Green
> http://www.box.net/shared/d6sts48g3r



I'd love to hear something like this played by LASS, CS, etc just for compaò~   ¿1—~   ¿1˜~   ¿1™~   ¿1š~   ¿1›~   ¿1œ~   ¿1~   ¿1ž~   ¿1Ÿ~   ¿1 ~   ¿1¡~   ¿1¢~   ¿1£~   ¿1¤~   ¿1¥~   ¿1¦~   ¿1§~   ¿1¨~   ¿1©~


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## choc0thrax (Jan 15, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> choc0thrax @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Speaking of LASS does anyone know what's happening with LASS lite? Has there been any updates on that?
> ...



Weird, I read that post but somehow missed that info about the lite version. Thanks.


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## theheresy (Jan 15, 2010)

Emanuel @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Gunther,
> 
> Maybe...
> 
> ...



ok I promise to try to implement advanced round robin scripting in future posts

~o) >8o


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## Jaap (Jan 15, 2010)

theheresy @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Emanuel @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Gunther,
> ...



Hahaha I love that one o-[][]-o


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 15, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Guy, what do you think about HS, have you listend to the demo?



Yes, I have and followed most of the thread. For me it's much to early to be definitive about anything, it will take many demos showing the versatility of HS, and from regular users as well, seeing the outcome of these demos will say a lot, if it spells m-u-s-i-c then it's good. I find the runs a bit artificial but for the rest I will be discrete about my opinion being a VSL demo maker


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

Oops, about the runs. I read that someone said it sounds not real... . Give me 3 minutes, I will post a recording with the same passage from a real recording... .


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 15, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Guy, what do you think about HS, have you listend to the demo?
> ...



But what if it spells m-u-s-i-c?

Or m-u-s-i-c-k? (Old English)


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## SvK (Jan 15, 2010)

Gunther ....

mach wigge alter 

SvK


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 15, 2010)

After this info coming out, it really is making me bang my head against the desk. CS, LASS, HS? Gahhhhh.

Each have their pluses and minues (though we don't know the full scale of HS yet) hard to say. Can't get all three...

Then comes the question, do I even NEED to upgrade my strings? I've almost created my own sound using VSL strings. I tend to wonder if I should keep that sound and upgrade my brass (want wallander, have VSL) Ex: http://www.nathanallenpinard.com/Demo-Strings.mp3 (not 100% perfect)

Then comes the question: Maybe I'll write more detailed scores if I actually have the ability to do fast runs, etc.

*bangs head against desk*

EDIT: Also let's not forget which ones will and will not need a new slave.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 15, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> ...



LOL I spelled it in french, moé j'suis Québecois


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 15, 2010)

Nathan,

If you are familiar with TJ's very first midi-mockups, the answer is clear: go for your chops, not for every new library.


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## SvK (Jan 15, 2010)

Nathan,

The "SilentStage" is VSL's Achille's Heel...It can not be removed or made to sound flattering. 

SvK


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 15, 2010)

Amen to Emanuel!


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## Justus (Jan 15, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> I find the runs a bit artificial but for the rest I will be discrete about my opinion being a VSL demo maker



One of the best! =o 

I think the runs weren't too bad, actually the best artificial runs I've heard so far.
Good idea, Gunther, let's compare it to a similar recording with real strings...


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 15, 2010)

SvK @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> (one of the expensive lexicon's I think, L96?)


It is called the Lexicon 960L 

Nathan: I am very sorry!!!!
I did not use the quote button, but (as mod) the Edit button.

I deleted your post!

Sorry!!!!!

Peter Emanuel


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 15, 2010)

Justus @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > I find the runs a bit artificial but for the rest I will be discrete about my opinion being a VSL demo maker
> ...



I don't need to compare, I already know. But it's a good option at least.


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 15, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> ...



nyet!


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## theheresy (Jan 15, 2010)

I'm more interested in someone posting a file of very fast runs with LASS than with real string orchestra..I already posted the flight of bumblebee runs with VSL and Symphobia can anyone post a LASS version so we can see how that compares to HS? Oh and perhaps CS also o/~ 

just go to google and type flight of bumblebee midi and attach any ol' LASS patch to the lead line of the midi for a few seconds. pretty please =o


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 15, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Amen to Emanuel!



Thanks Pete!

I hope to come to the west coast this year - would be great if I could meet you some way / somewhere!


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

Here we go: http://www.box.net/shared/ignz9eagbk

It begins with a snippet from HS-Demo and then the real orchestra. As you can hear, the real orchestra is playing on a very faster tempo... .

I have added a little bit reverb to the snippet from HS-demo..., to sound more near to the real hall.... .

HS sounds cool, yes, no?


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 15, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Here we go: http://www.box.net/shared/ignz9eagbk
> 
> It begins with a snippet from HS-Demo and then the real orchestra. As you can hear, the real orchestra is playing on a very faster tempo... .
> 
> ...



Why didn't you let it play longer? Can't say much, and the sound on both is weird. Nothing cleaner? I bumble bee sounds better...


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 15, 2010)

About marketing:

I find it so weird that this product is launched without any demo tracks - just with a global first look over the shoulders...

Is this a result of editing up to the deadline? Or of a bit too much self-confidence?


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

The snippet I have posted is an original and I am not allowed to post a longer one...., I am not a pirat... .


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

Emanuel @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> About marketing:
> 
> I find it so weird that this product is launched without any demo tracks - just with a global first look over the shoulders...
> 
> Is this a result of editing up to the deadline? Or of a bit too much self-confidence?



I think maybe they are also still in the editing-steps. Deadlines can kill so many good ideas! You know?!

As I said before, I can`t wait for the next demos.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 15, 2010)

Gunther - so you're saying that the first couple of seconds are HS, then there is an edit to a full orchestral piece? If so, then it's a quite extraordinary match, actually, it's almost too close to be true!

I'm 95% confident that you'll be able to use these slurred runs in a piece and listeners won't bat an eyelid. Which is totally new as far as I'm concerned. Exciting stuff.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 15, 2010)

> Or of a bit too much self-confidence?



This is EW we're talking about, right?


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## theheresy (Jan 15, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Here we go: http://www.box.net/shared/ignz9eagbk
> 
> It begins with a snippet from HS-Demo and then the real orchestra. As you can hear, the real orchestra is playing on a very faster tempo... .
> 
> ...




compelling....... 8) 

also..one thing I haven't cnosidered yet since a few people have mentioned that they didn't like the slurred runs because they don't have enough attack on them and prefer the sound of how one would do such runs now which is with staccato patches etc...well isn't this just the slurred legato/run patch alone in the HS sample? Doesn't that mean that if you don't like that sound you can still do the same run with HS staccatos and still do it the way that you think it sounds better etc.. just a thought.


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

The first is HS where I have added a little bit CSR-Reverb, and then you hear a real orchestra.


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## Justus (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks Gunther, nice edit!


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 15, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> The first is HS where I have added a little bit CSR-Reverb, and then you hear a real orchestra.



Well if that ain't the most incredible demo ever! Very VERY nice edit, you should link this at soundsonline too (and see if they give you a discount for great promotion!)

Sure it's short, but in a way it proves the point. There's something in context, it was played wild and with a bit of fairy dust its pretty indestinguishable from the real thing. This really is a quantum leap (ha, again). I think the people who aren't impressed with the runs have some explaining to do...

And Heresy, you are quite right. These are slurred runs, and of course not all runs are slurred so the user will choose a different patch for them. I see other patches in the HS browser named "run repetition" for example... this might be especially set up for non-slurred runs, but it might be something different again. And let's not forget there are also fully sampled runs that we haven't even heard yet - major, minor, octaves, up, down, up/down, versions with modwheel, keyswitches, split... this is seriously good stuff.


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## Sovereign (Jan 15, 2010)

Ok, I'm impressed. Since I did not buy LASS yet, I might get HS first.


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

Thanks *noiseboyuk*. It would cost me 5 seconds to set an eq to get the exactly same string sound as it is at the real orchestra, but why? I like the sound from HS as it is.


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## Ed (Jan 15, 2010)

personally I was very impressed by the runs.


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## madbulk (Jan 15, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Here we go: http://www.box.net/shared/ignz9eagbk
> 
> It begins with a snippet from HS-Demo and then the real orchestra. As you can hear, the real orchestra is playing on a very faster tempo... .
> 
> ...



oh man. even on a laptop.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 15, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Thanks *noiseboyuk*. It would cost me 5 seconds to set an eq to get the exactly same string sound as it is at the real orchestra, but why? I like the sound from HS as it is.



I don't know if you're signed up at soundsonline, but if not and you've no objections, I'd like to link that edit there (and of course credit you for the genius idea and execution). The world should hear it!


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 15, 2010)

Regarding the runs, some people are going about this all wrong. And a lot of what you think seems to be based on wishful thinking more then the actual aesthetic value of what you are hearing. That's my opinion.

But please prove me wrong and I'll look forward to hearing some of your pieces.


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## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks *noiseboyuk*. It would cost me 5 seconds to set an eq to get the exactly same string sound as it is at the real orchestra, but why? I like the sound from HS as it is.
> ...



feel free to do it


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 15, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Regarding the runs, some people are going about this all wrong. And a lot of what you think seems to be based on wishful thinking more then the actual aesthetic value of what you are hearing. That's my opinion.
> 
> But please prove me wrong and I'll look forward to hearing some of your pieces.



Could you elaborate more, Guy? What I hear, played wild, sounds almost indistinguishable from that real orchestra. In what way is that wishful thinking?!!


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 15, 2010)

I wouldn't know where to start explaining why this little comparison means absolutely nothing. But if you think it's AMAZING, go ahead with your little trick.


----------



## Jaap (Jan 15, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Here we go: http://www.box.net/shared/ignz9eagbk
> ...



I share this thought actually. Also too short on both to give it a good opinion and I agree it sounds weird.

I didnt like already the runs, but now I am scared even more and also for that orchestra that is playing that live run... :mrgreen: 

Concerning the runs. I think we heard not enough of them and probably they will do much much better when people have the chance to edit them, but just out of the box they are not convincing actually.


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

With all our libraries and the opportunities we have there, do not forget how a real orchestra (can) sound!


----------



## Guy Bacos (Jan 15, 2010)

Anyway, I shall stay neutral in this, since I like the team on this lib, and I did the same for LASS since I respect a lot Andrew, But all I'm saying is these runs are an interesting compromise, but do not sound like the real thing, to my ears. But compromise is still pretty good.


----------



## Jaap (Jan 15, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> With all our libraries and the opportunities we have there, do not forget how a real orchestra (can) sound!



Oh believe me I know how live orchestra can sound (the good and also the bad, conducted enough amateur orchestras and ensembles to had my fair share of musical abuse :mrgreen: )


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

Guy, these runs are only one example. I am pretty sure Doug, Nick and team exactly know how also different runs can sound and its also included in this lib. Don`t you think?


----------



## Imzadi (Jan 15, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks *noiseboyuk*. It would cost me 5 seconds to set an eq to get the exactly same string sound as it is at the real orchestra, but why? I like the sound from HS as it is.
> ...



Very nice example.

I have the feeling some are trying to compare the sound to other libraries *instead* of a real orchestra. After using a library for a while you get used to that sound, even if it's fake, so you have to step back a bit and think about what's trying to be achieved with the sound.
I can bet most people would have no idea these runs are fake if they heard them out of this thread. Maybe you don't like something about the sound because it doesn't sound like your favorite library, but even real string orchestras have different characters.

This is exactly what happened when LASS came out. In the MOTU forum most people didn't like them the demos, but now most swear by them.

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I realize how hard the work of a developer is!!!


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jan 15, 2010)

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----------



## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

Jaap @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> .... Concerning the runs. They didn't convince me, but as said earlier as well: I think when we have time to edit them and work with them more then just a quick few notes on a keyboard they can be good.
> And yeah, maybe I am too demanding on quality on the runs, dunno, but this ain't the quality yet as it was promoted, but as said, maybe it will when we hear more (also official) demos



What I said to Guy: These runs are only one example. I am pretty sure Doug, Nick and team exactly know how also different runs can sound and its also included in this lib. Don`t you think?


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 15, 2010)

Friday night here. Lets go arround the houses and have fun!  See you.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jan 15, 2010)

Jaap @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Those strings were simply rubbish to my ears, no matter if it's live or not, no offence and this is just a personal opinion



So would you accept that HS can successfully emulate RUBBISH real string runs, then?! It's a serious point, believe it or not. Until now, I've never heard any VI runs that sound like ANY real orchestra, good or bad. As far as I'm concerned, Gunther has demonstrated that these sound like real strings. You may not like those PARTICULAR strings, but this playing sounds like them. They don't sound like a keyboard.

In the meantime, feel free to post a snippet of a great recording of Bumble Bee, and we'll take it from there!

But hey, Gunther's right - it's Friday night. Yeah! I'm gonna put the TV on!!!!!


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 15, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Friday night here. Lets go arround the houses and have fun!  See you.



When are the girls coming? :wink:


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## Frederick Russ (Jan 15, 2010)

Some very cool choices for composers in the strings department these days! There doesn't seem to be a definitive "Lord of the Strings" in the concurrent String Wars but lately these new releases have been really superb for composers.

In the innovative department, I thought that the live chord legato was a very cool and usable feature as were the adjustable measured tremolos - both of which could make easier work of otherwise tedious midi programming. The mic positional programming was a nice touch although I actually liked the dryer mics which could serve as a foundation for IR chains later plus closer mics seemed to have captured more of the rosin without too much of the bite. Lots of choices for those wanting different panning and mic positional references - something for everyone.

I'd like to take a moment to sincerely specifically congratulate three developers for your recent releases: LA Scoring Strings, East West Hollywood Strings & Cinematic Strings - for making life so much better for composers who rely on strings sample libraries. Its so much better than it used to be in this regard! Its unbelievable how far its come along. The new model used for all your new string libraries is what is groundbreaking collectively in my opinion. I wish you all great success and enough continued income to keep doing this. I for one really appreciated it a lot.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 15, 2010)

> If I continue it will seem I'm putting HS down which I don't want to since I think they did a stellar job overall as LASS did. But the runs (in what I've heard) I wasn't convinced but an interesting compromise and in all lib there are compromises.



Well, there isn't really any lib that comes close. Those runs weren't perfect, but are probably the best out there. Unless you can point me to the VSL patch I want to use for that.


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## Jaap (Jan 15, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QV1RGMLUKE (Zubin Metha still rocks!)

Noisebuk: I am not picking a fight or something if you think that  I also fully respect that you like the runs. That's good and just merely expressing my own opinion on what I hear (and I don't believe my opinion equals absolute truth), but if the runs sound good to you and convince you then by all sakes you should go for it and make incredible things with it!

Anyway, I hear there will be a party :mrgreen: o-[][]-o


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 15, 2010)

I agree Frederick, the countless hours they put in to put all this package together must be extremely demanding. One lib pushes another to better themselves which is a great thing for us. So I also raise my hat to all these developers.


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## tmhuud (Jan 15, 2010)

o-[][]-o Heres to the developers! o-[][]-o 

a.)where would we be without them.

b.)Where would they be without us?

=o 





Answers: a.) richer
b.) poorer


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## Rob Elliott (Jan 15, 2010)

Holy longest thread in this dispensation Batman!!!! Busy and away for 2 days and come back to a kajillion more pages in just a few days. :? Somehow I got through all the soap opera (cheesy organ plays here o ).


...anywho.....classy post Frederick - couldn't agree more. Thank you developers for allowing me to have the best job in the world. My deepest gratitude and appreciation for all you do.








(Nick - does my post mean you send my drive first? 0oD )


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## StrangeCat (Jan 15, 2010)

We are all part of the same Circle o-[][]-o


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## SvK (Jan 15, 2010)

I love lamp


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## Jonathan Kranz (Jan 15, 2010)

Agreed! o-[][]-o


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## Rob Elliott (Jan 15, 2010)

SvK @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> I love lamp




Svk - 'are you just saying what you see?'




:D


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## StrangeCat (Jan 15, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/user/museumoftec ... Um--OWoAQE

These guys have got it right! Let's have another swig in the celebration of Hollywood Strings! Cheers East West on your hard work! 

o-[][]-o 
o-[][]-o 
o-[][]-o 
o=<


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## Niah (Jan 15, 2010)

nikolas @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> dcoscina @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > You know, what is it with all this "divisi" stuff anyhow? I have yet to hear someone write in this manner in a contemporary setting except for Jimmy Horner and Chris Gordon if you're talking that past few years. I don't hear it from Zimmer, Tyler, or anyone else.
> ...



I think you guys are missing one of the crucial points for sampling divisi sections. 

Speaking specifically about LASS, the sampling of divisi sections is paramount to take full advantage of the layering concept of LASS. The fact that you have different sections with different players that react differently with each other is what gives LASS a much more musical string orchestra feeling than previous older libraries that sounded more pad-ish.

Even if you are writing just unison lines, the interaction of the divisi sections A, B, C with its different attributes is what puts LASS sonically one step closer to the real thing. You can clearly hear a noticeable difference when you use just the ensemble patches vs the divisi patches together to form full sections.

Of couse if depends on how it is sampled and conceived but divisi is extremely important in today's orchestral libraries even if you are not writing for divisi.


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## SvK (Jan 15, 2010)

I.....love...LAMP!


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## SvK (Jan 15, 2010)

SvK


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## JohnG (Jan 15, 2010)

Now, how about something from "Dodgeball?"


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## choc0thrax (Jan 15, 2010)

Niah @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> nikolas @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > dcoscina @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> ...



Heh, dcoscina referred to the LASS divisi as "groundbreaking" a month back but now he's changed his tune. Maybe divisi killed his dog or something.


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## Niah (Jan 15, 2010)

8)


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 15, 2010)

tmhuud @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> o-[][]-o Heres to the developers! o-[][]-o
> 
> a.)where would we be without them.
> 
> ...



Cheers to that Terry!


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## Rob Elliott (Jan 15, 2010)

JohnG @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Now, how about something from "Dodgeball?"




Sorry John - can only remember this classic...


" I found that if you have a goal, that you might not reach it. But if you don't have one, then you are never disappointed. And I gotta tell ya, it feels phenomenal."


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## Vision (Jan 15, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Here we go: http://www.box.net/shared/ignz9eagbk
> 
> It begins with a snippet from HS-Demo and then the real orchestra. As you can hear, the real orchestra is playing on a very faster tempo... .
> 
> ...



Anyone who hears this and says the HS fast slurs aren't good needs their ears checked. Like I said a million posts back.. show me a library that can do the same thing, in real time, with less work, that sounds _half_ as good.


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## dcoscina (Jan 15, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Heh, dcoscina referred to the LASS divisi as "groundbreaking" a month back but now he's changed his tune. Maybe divisi killed his dog or something.



Sigh. You really are a simple SOB aren't you? I guess I didn't use any emoticons to show the sarcasm factor mixed with cynicism over this latest trend in sexy sample library features. All I meant was that up until LASS came along, or perhaps DVZ, there was no mention of divisi string writing, and out of all the demos I have heard on this or any other tech forum, maybe once or twice did I hear someone actually compose multi-part string lines. I don't want to get off topic but a lot of the writing has largely been big lines in unison or at the octave with very little roaming outside the standard triadic realm- not a judgement, just an observation. So when people start using the divisi thing as a dig against EW or whomever, I laugh a little bit because some of these folks probably never had the occasion to use this technique up until LASS came out.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Jan 15, 2010)

Frederick,

Don't forget Kirk Hunter, and his new string library.

Mr. A.


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## Niah (Jan 15, 2010)

You still don't get it brother.

Your statement that these divisi features were created primarly for divisi writing is once again missing the point, particulary by mentioning DvZ.

DvZ is about divisi in real time, which means that when you play for instance a chord in unison the lines get splitted over the section like in real world situation and avoiding the "organ-effect" of our current libraries. It also gives you full control over each individual instruments and the size or your string orchestra. 

So again it doesn't matter if you are writing for divisi or in unison block chords, you still get full advantage of these features no matter what you are writing.


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## choc0thrax (Jan 15, 2010)

dcoscina @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Sigh. You really are a simple SOB aren't you?



If by SOB you mean Sexy Overt Bisexual, then yes. 

I agree, it is definitely funny that people couldn't effectively do multi-part string lines until LASS came out.


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## sevaels (Jan 15, 2010)

Niah...I'd give up.


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## Vision (Jan 15, 2010)

Did this just for kicks..

HS vs Real slur edits: 

http://www.box.net/shared/cic23aeb1s


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## dcoscina (Jan 15, 2010)

Niah @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> You still don't get it brother.
> 
> Your statement that these divisi features were created primarly for divisi writing is once again missing the point, particulary by mentioning DvZ.
> 
> ...



If you're addressing me, yes, I get it. I got it when Chris first posted demos of what his library was trying to attain back a few years ago. I liked the idea, but the sound didn't do it for me. Plus the $10,000 price tag and the need for multiple computers.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 16, 2010)

dcoscina @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> psy-clone, you will enjoy Cinematic Strings I believe. It's also a fine library and I also use it. I would say that it might suffer a bit more from neglect once HS is loaded on my computer just because it also resides in the lush, warm, cinematic category. But I always like options.



yes, i think i will as well...also, the developer seems like a very kewl and helpfull guy, and based on what hes said about the library and its plans, im thinking that will be the most interesting and perhaps valuable purchase for the time being.
And in any event i always mix libraries , so its not one or the other anyway,.

My main concern about it is the lack of variation for short articulations tho...but its also not the most expensive string lib, so i guess that figures,
Too bad i missed the "secret" xmas sale...it was so secret, that in fact no one knw about it


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 16, 2010)

dcoscina @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> choc0thrax @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Heh, dcoscina referred to the LASS divisi as "groundbreaking" a month back but now he's changed his tune. Maybe divisi killed his dog or something.
> ...



It may not have been mentioned on the forums, but it was certainly mentioned and requested by composers (including myself) to developers, including VSL. When Chamber Strings came out, I had hoped this would be a comparable divisi option. It can be with some effort, but the results achieved with LASS and potentially with HS are more practical.

Jay Bacal's and Andy Blaney's demos for VSL certify demonstrate that the divisi sound can be achieved. Consider Jeux de vagues (Andy), Danse Profane (Jay), Quiet City (Jay), and others which demonstrate the possibilities with VSL.

But these are time consuming to produce. 

With LASS, the production time is cut down significantly. 

I have to say potentially with HS because we haven't begun to hear enough to know, and until someone mocks up a few from the "classics" with divisi for direct comparison, we won't. 

BTW, divisi in film scoring is used frequently by those who know how to use it. I have scores from Goldsmith, Mancini and Williams where it's used quite frequently. So going back to Vaughan Williams is a little inaccurate. 

While I've never seen any of Hans' scores, I hear divisi writing in some of his cues quite frequently. Remember, in the end, an orchestrator finishes off what Hans submits.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 16, 2010)

Vision @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Did this just for kicks..
> 
> HS vs Real slur edits:
> 
> http://www.box.net/shared/cic23aeb1s



Well, again, it sounds bloody close to me.

You know what this discussion now reminds me of? My teenage years and hi fi. I was a real sound nut (weren't we all on this forum?!) and I'd be obsessed about getting the best sound I could possibly buy, passionate about quality. I'd buy the magazines, lust over the kit, drool over the real thing in hi-fi shops, demo whatever I could get away with as a gawky teen. I was a Quality Bore.

But I began to realise something. I reached a point where I was happy - I'd got a great sound. And here I'd meet the real audiophiles - the people who sawed into the back of amplifiers to solder the speaker cables right onto the circuit board because the connectors degraded the sound. The people who paid £100 per metre for speaker cable. The people who would only buy a turntable where the speed could be changed by physically taking it to bits - any mechanism would degrade the sound. In my view then - and now, 25 years later - these people were obsessed and kinda missed the point of music, even. Ditto the jump from VHS to DVD - critical. Jump from DVD to BluRay - meh. Dolby Digital 5.1 - critical. DTS ES - meh. The first 90% I'm evangelical about, it seems, but the final 10% I guess, bores me - the law of diminishing returns.

And I guess I have the same attitude to creating music as I do listening to it. I am passionate about things sounding right. I heard a VI piece this week out in the real world which sounded 75% awesome, but some of the string parts (ha, the runs) sounded really fake and I loathed it. But now I suddenly hit this point where for the first time I hear something (those HS runs) and go "that's it. That sounds right, that's what I've heard in orchestras for the past 40 years". And I yet hear others saying they sound fake and awful, and commercial recordings of the same thing sound awful too.

Now I know I'm on thin ice here... I can totally respect people not liking a particular recording, or style of playing. And I guess my own ears must be less critical than others - I'm quite happy to accept that my own perception is screwed! But I guess for me, I've hit the plateau. I've moaned on every forum that string runs sound awful, and I avoid them at all costs (I've put one - ONE - keyboard run in the entire 10 hour project I'm working on, and it sounds pretty ropey but it just HAD to be there). I was desperate to hear something that sounded real and now I have.

So at this point I guess there's a parting of the ways (not literally!) For some, the search for that elusive perfection will go on. And I recognize that in the future I'll hear these runs bettered. But an absolutely crucial milestone has been passed in my musical world, and with this tool I can compose stuff I couldn't compose before. It's now good enough. It's the jump from 20% to 90% - I'm happy to ignore the final 10%.

Just my $0.02 - again, I'm sure my own perception is flawed. But that works for me. And my own congratulations to the developers of HS, LASS and CS - geniuses, one and all.

PS - I bet LASS 2 will rock as well....


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## germancomponist (Jan 16, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Jan 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Friday night here. Lets go arround the houses and have fun!  See you.
> ...



They were there and had to wait because I listend first to the HS demo. o/~ :mrgreen:


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jan 16, 2010)

I am really amazed at the posts made on this particular thread.

Some really in your face comments about various things. Did someone say - Shawn Murphy's questionable mixes since the 90's????? Thats just - wrong!

I have generally not worked much with East West stuff - but Hollywood strings sound pretty good - I have to agree there is not a single library that can do slur runs. Even VSL is not good at it. 

The quality of the samples in HS sounds right up there.

And I have to say that its really stupid of anyone to say that nobody was writing Divisi stuff before LASS - VSL also has a huge sample library from Chamber strings to Solos etc etc - And I think we all know - that writing for samples is not like writing for the orchestra - so I think VSL has been doing that job quite well for sometime now. And I dont think this lack of feature has stopped people to write Divisi stuff. What you probably want to say is that - people did not have the right samples to be able to write divisi music the way its meant to be done - but it certainly does not mean, people were not doing it.

And it really amuses me how most people here can say with confidence that 99% of the composers out there are generating crap. And certainly poor Hans Zimmer does not write all the bad music produced in this world. 

I think people who think every film needs a melody are narrow minded. Film music is not concert music. I did not think the new Batman movies were lacking because of a melody. There is a theme - its just not a melody in a traditional fashion. 

I loved the Joker's theme - I think it worked really well in the film - I was really happy to hear so much experimentation with the jokers theme - I just wish they had approached other cues in a similar fashion. 

Working professionally is a different ball game all together. Its not like writing demo tracks at home. 

Bernard Herrmann had a hard time doing scores even when he was alive - its a well documented fact that he was not happy with the film music scene even then. And that thing continues today. 

If you have the balls to write daring music - if you want to do something ground breaking (provided you have the ability to do so) - then nobody is going to stop you - but yeah - its not going to be easy - it never was - even when orhcestral music was the only kind of music that existed. We all know the history of various composers from the past. So why do you think it will be easier now with so much music out there? 

And everyone is not going to write ground breaking music - I dont think everyone can and may be everyone does not want to write ground breaking music. 

The problem is also the money involved. It puts enourmous pressure on everyone. And I think its the general attitude around the world today - people want stuff thats done ASAP and has the most returns possible. This is a modern day trend - which mirrors other parts of our lives. So please spare music because it too suffers from this problem. 

And we have to understand one more thing - a lot more people can compose music today - some even without a lot of training. It does not make them any lesser. Everyone has a back story - everyone works hard. Everyone has a different style music.

I dont think Hans Zimmer lazes around while Lorne Balfe programs and composes everything for him. They all work hard. 

We are all from the same community and I think a little more positive energy will help everyone around. 

I think its really beautiful that so many people care about orchestral music and they are so passionate about it. I feel most happy to interact fellow orchestral music composers. There is room for everyone here!


Peace!


Tanuj.


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## Hannesdm (Jan 16, 2010)

Great post, vibrato!!

+1 !


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## Revson (Jan 16, 2010)

vibrato @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> I am really amazed at the posts made on this particular thread.
> 
> Some really in your face comments about various things. Did someone say - Shawn Murphy's questionable mixes since the 90's????? Thats just - wrong!
> 
> ...


Posts like this are the reason I keep coming back to this forum.


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## Dan Mott (Jan 16, 2010)

Everything you said, Vibrato was dead on right and i appreciate you sharing that with us, you tell them dude!!!


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## anton (Jan 16, 2010)

+1.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 16, 2010)

Great post!

Thanks!


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 16, 2010)

A very wide-ranging and great post Tanuj!

It's OT really, but this came up in a thread in the general area - I think Zimmer wrote the the most "famous" theme among the general public of the past decade in Gladiator. He's written some fantastic scores in a wide variety of styles - I think some of the animosity on VI Control is jealousy, pure and simple. Personally The Dark Knight score bored me, but he's done other stuff I really love (still adore Thelma and Louise, for example). His BIG POTC style is not the only thing he can do, but of course he does that brilliantly. If that ain't your thing - don't do it! No need to denigrate other composers.

And of course your're right Tanuj - when I started reading comments questioning Shawn Murphy's ability to hear and mix, I think the plot has got well and truly been lost.

Folks, pick your poison - LASS, HS, CS, Symph, KH... whatever works for you. IMHO, with the tools out there now, we've run out of excuses as composers to sound anything other than fantastic. What an incredible 18 months, eh?


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## mjc (Jan 16, 2010)

+1

Agreed!

To vibrato's post


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## Dan Mott (Jan 16, 2010)

HS or LASS? Ahhhhhhh help me.

Watched the HS tutorial, plus i watched some you tube videos with LASS, both are sooooo good, what does one do?


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## stevenson-again (Jan 16, 2010)

i have given this some thought.

sound-wise, i quite like what happens when you blend LASS and symphobia.

LASS will give you greater flexibility over your ensemble. for example, you will find it easier to get that john powell bourne supremacy string sound, and then belnd in symphobia for the bigger more epic sounds.

probably it comes down to this: LASS will offer a little more flexibility, but HS will offer a great sound right out of the box.

if you find yourself needing greater flexibility and greater range of tonal possibilities then probably LASS is your man (or lass as it were). HS for superbly detailed full sound and probably a little less effort to make sound good.

personally if i did not already have LASS i would go for LASS, although i am very intrigued by the slur patch in HS.

2 main reasons for that: 
- i really do need the flexibility
- i personally want to have the flexibility that kontakt offers to mix other libraries into my template.


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## dcoscina (Jan 16, 2010)

Niah, I know what you're saying about LASS, that the building within sections isn't only beneficial to divisi writing but a more general unison sound as well because of the different groups within the section. I enjoy being able to modify note lengths in Logic between the different groups to obtain that more organic, real-player sound. And Andrew should be proud of this because it works really well. It's kinda like what Garritan was going for in his J&BB library years ago- different makes of the same instrument (ie different tenor saxes, altos, etc) so you could layer them and not get that weird phasing sound becuase they were the identical sample. 

Look, I'm not trying to put down LASS by any stretch. It's terrific, I still think (so far) it has the most realistic short articulations of any string library, and there's enough PMs from Andrew thanking me for my advocacy of his terrific library. My divisi comment was honestly a smart arse remark on how this term has become such a catch-word now when it was not really discussed as much a year back or so. That's all.


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 16, 2010)

The direct examples people have created have been great. Anyone with LASS want to create versions of the solo cello legato or bumblebee example? Appasionatta is almost three years old so I doubt anyone would expect it to hold up (I'm surprised it wasn't a bigger difference, frankly).

I'd be very curious to hear someone take a shot at the "runs" bit with LASS, if any library could do something like that I would think it would be them (particularly using the split patches instead of the summed sections).



Vision @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> Anyone who hears this and says the HS fast slurs aren't good needs their ears checked. Like I said a million posts back.. show me a library that can do the same thing, in real time, with less work, that sounds _half_ as good.



First off, I agree with others that have said that's a pretty terrible live recording of Bumblebee, both the playing and the recording. Second, it's way too short a snippet to make a real comparison.

But what really matters most to me is that this particular example is that it is _not_ slurs. A slur is a string of notes played on the same bowstroke while changing fingers (and strings). And THAT is what I'd consider the holy grail of a playable run, not changing bowstroke on every note.

Someone should dig out a prerecorded run from a decent string library and post that for comparison, it will sound nothing like the example in the video. I want runs that are very smooth (as little articulation as possible between notes) and almost a little sloppy. That's why string runs are so hard to play in, with a real string run, it is so fast that the timing between all the players isn't too accurate (and the guys in the back row may be even slopping through it).

HS promises "smeared" string runs, and with that expectation, this isn't remotely it. It's a pretty good fast bow change legato, but that doesn't go as far as I wanted.


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## Niah (Jan 16, 2010)

@dcoscina:

oh ok thanks for clarifying that up, I understand now where you were coming from with those comments o-[][]-o 

@vibrato:

I also appreciated your post, but I think when people are really passionate about music like its the case in here things can get a little hot.
But I do agree with you, we must try to be more positive once in a while, if not most of the times.


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## Dan Mott (Jan 16, 2010)

Ok so, if i wanted an ambient type sound which is full, i'd probably benifit from HS?

I know it's up to me, but i want to make the right choice for the sound i want which is ambients and rich emotion with large ensembles.

Are you saying LASS doesn't have that type of sound??

I know it'll be up to me to create that sound, but all i'm asking is which of the libraries would give that extra oomph when manipulating an ambient sound?

Please don't see my question is "how do i compose?" nothing like that at all.


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## germancomponist (Jan 16, 2010)

Hm, the recording is from 2001 / The Philadelphia Orchestra / conductor: Eugene Ormandy


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 16, 2010)

germancomponist @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Hm, the recording is from 2001 / The Philadelphia Orchestra / conductor: Eugene Ormandy



oh. well best to wait untill 2051 then, to be on the safe side


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## bryla (Jan 16, 2010)

Mechanical rights belong to the people recorded it and performed it. They last for 70-years from the death of the people owning the recording.

The artistic work (the score itself) is also protected for 70-years from the death of the composer. The Philly Orchestra didn't need to pay Rimsky-Korsakov for recording it


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 16, 2010)

dcoscina @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> out of all the demos I have heard on this or any other tech forum, maybe once or twice did I hear someone actually compose multi-part string lines.



But what about the possibility that people didn't write divisi because it wasn't convincing with the samples? I'm sure if someone used a library with no recorded trills, they probably would rarely write for them.

Besides actual divided parts, it's useful for getting a smaller, more intimate sound.



dcoscina @ Fri Jan 15 said:


> So when people start using the divisi thing as a dig against EW or whomever



Well, when you compare two libraries, it is something that some libraries have and some don't. I'm not sure why any particular aspect should be off limits for comparison.

And it does seem kind of fishy to claim divisi (and sordino) but do them by faking it. We'll see if either sounds as good as the real thing.


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## germancomponist (Jan 16, 2010)

Doug Rogers wrote 5 minutes ago on the soundsonline-forum:


> We posted a new "extended" video introduction this morning that includes two new nusic demos also. ....
> Please use Quicktime to play this, do not import it into WMP, we will be posting other versions shortly.
> 
> The new topic is here -
> ...



So here we go again!  o/~ o-[][]-o


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## dcoscina (Jan 16, 2010)

Dan-Jay @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> I know it's up to me, but i want to make the right choice for the sound i want which is ambients and rich emotion with large ensembles.
> 
> Are you saying LASS doesn't have that type of sound??
> 
> ...



I'm going to be really honest here- with LASS, I enjoy the short articulation immensely and I'm getting the hang of the legatos/portamentos. However, can I get the same level of expression out of it as Craig Sharmat? No. Do I want to? Yes. Is this a shortcoming of the user or the library? Well, I'll say it's mostly my shortcomings as a musician using samples not to achieve the same level that Craig did. However, I do think the learning curve on it is a little more steep than what our world demands these days. Sadly, that world is, sit down, play it, get instant gratification. I hope I'm being clear here- this is really a problem with the user. Andrew K hasn't made an impossible library to handle- he really hasn't. And 1.1 is terrific. Part of me is happy that I haven't reached the ceiling with LASS. But part of me honestly gets frustrated when I cannot get out into the real world what I'm hearing in my head. I can using Finale or NOTION, at least compositionally but not sonically. 

So, we'll see if EW makes making beautiful string music easier and more direct. As I said, most of my slow progress with LASS is on account of my skills or lack thereof, not Andrew's programming or design. We have all heard some terrific LASS examples.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 16, 2010)

bryla @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Mechanical rights belong to the people recorded it and performed it. They last for 70-years from the death of the people owning the recording.
> 
> The artistic work (the score itself) is also protected for 70-years from the death of the composer. The Philly Orchestra didn't need to pay Rimsky-Korsakov for recording it



yes i do believe it is 70 years here now as well , not sure that is the same everywhere tho.
Was not aware that the mechanicals+publishing expiration were from the death of its originator, i asumed it was from the date of recording or registration.
thanx for the info.


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## germancomponist (Jan 16, 2010)

Are you downloading the new video? Maybe after watching and listening we don`t need a longer snippet from the example-recording.... .


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## Dan Mott (Jan 16, 2010)

New HS video!!!! YAY!!! it's amazing!


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 16, 2010)

I haven't DL-ed yet, waiting for your comments 

Is it extended or also updated?


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## germancomponist (Jan 16, 2010)

Hi Emanuel,

I think it is a new one. Just downloading.


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## Dan Mott (Jan 16, 2010)

It's only extended, but it's worth the download, it really sounded fantastic, there's alot of new stuff.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 16, 2010)

germancomponist @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Are you downloading the new video? Maybe after watching and listening we don`t need a longer snippet from the example-recording.... .



me? Well, anyhoo...i didnt need that snippet in the first place , i think the runs are the best sampled playable ones i heard yet, having tried a million times to write that sort of stuff with other libs, i know they usualy sound much worse than what HS presented in that video. Will they sound perfect, no ...offcourse not, but still...i thought that was the coolest part of the demo, and the measured trems.

Not to overlook that they recorded RRx16 for some artilculations, thats pretty f-ing amazing.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 16, 2010)

It would be pretty cool if EW still tracks this forum, read our "issues" and questions raised here and keep updating their demos to address them.
Funny also that this forum has so much anticipation and heated debates while that "older" forum is rather still quiet on it.
Yay for V.I. Control!!!


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## Dan Mott (Jan 16, 2010)

Hey, Emanuel.

The issues have been adressed on Soundsonline aswell, trust me... i think there were alot fo negative posts there too about issues.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 16, 2010)

Emanuel @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> It would be pretty cool if EW still tracks this forum, read our "issues" and questions raised here and keep updating their demos to address them.
> Funny also that this forum has so much anticipation and heated debates while that "older" forum is rather still quiet on it.
> Yay for V.I. Control!!!



are u kidding, they prolly sat up all night sweatin out new demos becouse of this thread.
Oh i think they are watching every response.
Wouldnt you? o-[][]-o


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## Pochflyboy (Jan 16, 2010)

Def check out the new video. It has some new stuff. Also has the old video in it but it is worth checking it out. I know EW still checks on these forums. They have posted in this thread alone. Also they said in their post at their forum:

"First, myself, and co-producers Nick Phoenix and Thomas Bergersen thank you for your comments regarding the first HOLLYWOOD STRINGS video introduction we posted on Thursday, we appreciate the comments both positive and negative. Please understand this is still a work in progress with a month to go before release, and not all features are working yet, we will release a series of additions and demos as they become available."
-Doug

So I think they are listening to us...

-Joe


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## germancomponist (Jan 16, 2010)

Emanuel @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> It would be pretty cool if EW still tracks this forum, read our "issues" and questions raised here and keep updating their demos to address them.
> Funny also that this forum has so much anticipation and heated debates while that "older" forum is rather still quiet on it.
> Yay for V.I. Control!!!



They are here. Jonathan Kranz went in, I think yesterday.


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## dcoscina (Jan 16, 2010)

There's actually more articulations demo'd on this version too. there's a part for staccato and spiccato. Cool!


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## Dan Mott (Jan 16, 2010)

Still think that LASS has better divisi. From the way the divisi sounds in the videos..... looks like i won't be touching it.


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 16, 2010)

germancomponist @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Interesting. What did the players at the real recording, how is this named? Oops, I thought they did exactly what you described.
> 
> Who knows more about the american copyright? Am I allowed to post a longer snippet from the real-orchestra-recording?



It seems pretty obvious to me from listening to bumblebee, but if you watch an orchestra doing it on youtube, you can see that the strings are bowing every note.

What I really want in a playable run is more like the overture to the marriage of figaro (there are plenty of youtube orchestral performances). Wicked fast _smooth_ string lines - totally different from bumblebee since it's slurred instead of bowing each individual note. They sounds nothing like the HS video, although it's possible that's not what their goal was (and it's possible they have a different patch that does what I'm looking for).

I'd be curious how well LASS can get close to that sort of thing, I'd be curious how something like this would sound:
1 Start with whatever patch is the closest articulation to this
2 Play the passage with the divisis together, with randomizations of timing turned up fairly high (and to a lesser degree, pitch) between the different divisi parts. OR play in the same part on each of the divisis without quantizing so there are timing differences.

In short, I feel like a big part of what makes it sound real is that as string parts get faster and faster, there are greater timing differences between individual players which isn't possible with any monolithic patch.

Right now I'm trying to decide between LASS and HS (and any others that are competitive, but it seems like those are the two cutting edge ones right now), so any direct comparisons are appreciated.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 16, 2010)

Although I applaud the more Web 2.0 approach of offering video demos / tutorials, I still do miss the old fashioned marketing approach of posting at least 5 mp3 compositions in different styles.

Ok, old dude here


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## dcoscina (Jan 16, 2010)

Dan-Jay @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Still think that LASS has better divisi. From the way the divisi sounds in the videos..... looks like i won't be touching it.



I love the expression patches but I'm not gonna be kicking LASS outta bed when it comes to short articulations. So far, based on these listenings, I prefer LASS spiccatos. But we'll see how HS develops over the next month. I pre-ordered so I'm getting HS anyhoo. Love those long expressive strings!


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## Justus (Jan 16, 2010)

I miss the punch of LASS spiccatos in the HS demo.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 16, 2010)

I also love the spiccato demo from Andrew, but... aren't these marcatos? Haven't touched my orchestration books in a while...

I was seriously considering ordering LASS for this great NAMM price, but SO glad I didn't!

Troubles with a contractor who still owes me 20K euros :-(


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## dcoscina (Jan 16, 2010)

Er, did anyone hear this all the way through? There's a new piece by Thomas at the end of this for full orchestra and HS and WOW it really shines. Still not in love with the short articulations but gosh those long sustained strings kick ass.


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## Justus (Jan 16, 2010)

Listening to it right now.
I expected something great by Thomas and here it is!


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## dcoscina (Jan 16, 2010)

Emanuel @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> I also love the spiccato demo from Andrew, but... aren't these marcatos? Haven't touched my orchestration books in a while...
> 
> I was seriously considering ordering LASS for this great NAMM price, but SO glad I didn't!
> 
> Troubles with a contractor who still owes me 20K euros :-(



Nick demo's both staccato violins and spiccato violins. With Thomas' demo, there's a point where he's got staccato violins playing a repeated figure. I am not sure I would have used that technique but there's really a lot of fine moments in this piece. It's really extended. It's kinda like a polite "see what this can do?" after we griped about the short examples in the version 1 tutorial.


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Love the new piece! 

Looks like I want this now


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## bigdog (Jan 16, 2010)

well the writing is incredible. A personal favorite style of mine, almost old Hollywood, romantic, juicy lines etc. I'm glad they posted this one because for me this is where the truth is told, more than short samples.

I'm trying not to be seduced by that, but at the risk of being unpopular, the strings sound rather synthy to me, especially the vlns. I'm tempted to go open is LASS and play the same lines to see if I could do any better with that.

The jury's still out on this one, at least for me


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## zareone (Jan 16, 2010)

Hey calm down! Don't be fooled by the new demo. TJ could make us want to buy GPO if he'd made a demo with it.

Hehehe. Just kidding. This sounds really good.


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## bigdog (Jan 16, 2010)

actually the piece is kind of "Summer of 42" - love it


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Of course while TJ can make anything sound good, I think HS sounds closest to TJ's private lib that Ive seen... course we'll never know what he would have done with LASS which is a shame


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 16, 2010)

and don't forget that in the last 10 years TJ made incredibly convincing tracks with all the old libs and even older ones (he once sampled a bass trombone from his father's orchestra - very rough but very effective).
We need more composers to make demos!


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## stevenson-again (Jan 16, 2010)

i give up. in the name of all that's holy....


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## choc0thrax (Jan 16, 2010)

Nice composition at the end Thomas, I really like the choir. You really need to score Star Trek 2, I mean people already wanted your trailer music to be in the first film more than Giacchino's. 8)


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## David Story (Jan 16, 2010)

The new demos are prerecorded midi, and sound much better than OOTB. 
The $1,700 question:

What did they do to the midi to get that sound from HS? 

EW needs to post files that show proper programing. Without a tutorial or midi file to emulate, the user is left to trial and error. High end software calls for high end support.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 16, 2010)

The new demo is nice, really shows HS. I'm still going to save HS for my last supplemental string lib. I write a lot of legato lines (don't we all) and the sound of that is important to me. HS had some nice high end strings, but the legato in them didn't seem worth 1600 to me.

I guess that sounds selfish, given the other features, but that was my main decider. Because it would've been 1600 and a new comp probably.


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## choc0thrax (Jan 16, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> The new demo is nice, really shows HS. I'm still going to save HS for my last supplemental string lib. I write a lot of legato lines (don't we all) and the sound of that is important to me. HS had some nice high end strings, but the legato in them didn't seem worth 1600 to me.
> 
> I guess that sounds selfish, given the other features, but that was my main decider. Because it would've been 1600 and a new comp probably.



Yeah the string attacks are pretty synthy at times.


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

David Story @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> The new demos are prerecorded midi, and sound much better than OOTB.
> The $1,700 question:
> 
> What did they do to the midi to get that sound from HS?
> ...



hehe they wont do that.

The reason it sounds so good is because its TJ. 

Its funny because people will just assume TJ is normal, they wont realise how he has made past libraries sound.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 16, 2010)

the string players had a secret meeting up front and decided to pull these sample moguls a trick: let's play like a synth at my nod


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## Justus (Jan 16, 2010)

Emanuel @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> the string players had a secret meeting up front and decided to pull these sample moguls a trick: let's play like a synth at my nod



:D Good one!


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## SvK (Jan 16, 2010)

High strings @ 8.40sec WOW!!!

SvK

S O L D


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Jan 16, 2010)

Emanuel @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> the string players had a secret meeting up front and decided to pull these sample moguls a trick: let's play like a synth at my nod



Well put. It's the extremely uniform sound that makes us perceive it as slightly synthy.


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## choc0thrax (Jan 16, 2010)

Emanuel @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> the string players had a secret meeting up front and decided to pull these sample moguls a trick: let's play like a synth at my nod



This is why we'll never have really awesome strings, they don't want to lose their jobs so they sabotage all the sample recording sessions!

It's going to be interesting to hear the user demos of this lib.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 16, 2010)

Are there new demos? Where?


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Jan 16, 2010)

On their website as before. The video has been extended with a couple of pieces by TJ and demos of staccato/spicatto.


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## Jaap (Jan 16, 2010)

http://www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-strings

They uploaded an extended version. Checking it out now.


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## nikolas (Jan 16, 2010)

SOL is swamped and I cannot download the video! Darnit! :(


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> This is why we'll never have really awesome strings, they don't want to lose their jobs so they sabotage all the sample recording sessions!



Aha! Thats why the Prague stuff was different because none of them understood what the crazy smiling guy was asking of them. Probably thought they were just playing some avant garde stuff, they didnt realise it was for a sample library. The HS players just understood what was going on :D



> It's going to be interesting to hear the user demos of this lib.



Come on we know most wont be good


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## choc0thrax (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Come on we know most wont be good



Well yeah, that's why I said it'll be interesting. o/~ 

Those people in Prague were probably just happy someone was paying them in canned goods.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 16, 2010)

Mihkel @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> On their website as before. The video has been extended with a couple of pieces by TJ and demos of staccato/spicatto.



Thanks 

I have to say that for I find this very annoying to have to dig up these demos. Why can't they just put them on their site and we just click to hear them?

demo A
demo B
demo C


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## NYC Composer (Jan 16, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Mihkel @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > On their website as before. The video has been extended with a couple of pieces by TJ and demos of staccato/spicatto.
> ...



1. It would swamp their servers.
2. Drama


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 16, 2010)

When listening to this new demo with a pair of pro cans, I am impressed by the advances made in sampling.

But I find the mixes in the video very below standards - hopefully this is what comes out of the box without tweaking, but even as being a non pro I think I could make this sound a lot better.

The panning worries me, I don't hear enough differences between the mic options and I don't like the reverb at all! But I would also never use a reverb from within a VSTi... I prefer my own Lex IRs 

But I am really hearing some groundbreaking new playability and lots of playing variations!


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## Marius Masalar (Jan 16, 2010)

I've been following this conversation, of course, and decided to chime in again now that we have an extended version of the demo video. My initial thoughts were pretty much also extended as a result:

Aw balls, it DOES sound good, I CAN'T just ignore it. I guess I'm happy though, because I'm in a position where I'm actually very pleased with my string sound...I adopted LASS early on and haven't been able to stop playing with it since, and combined with the richness of Symphobia and some help from EWQLSO in the short articulations department, I've got a pretty bitchin' virtual string section.

The issue is....I love the tone I'm hearing in HS. It's fat, chocolatey, has lots of dynamic layers, and lots of RR for the short articulations. And the runs are, to my ears, better than anything I can put together with what I have at this point. Do I like that the sordinos seem to be cheated via EQ? No. Do I care? No, I have LASS. Do I find the legatos particularly convincing in HS? Nope. Do I care? No, LASS to the rescue once again.

....can I open my DAW, load up a patch/multi and get expressive, rich strings with decent legatos played in live altogether instead of line by line? Something I can just have fun playing and then polish up with some help from LASS where some extra tightness/presence is needed? Something I can use to just doodle around with, impress clients with, woo chicks with, order pizza with, etc etc?

Weeeeeell no, I can't. Nor can I do slurred runs too convincingly. Nor do I have as many different types of short articulations with as many RR and as much live flexibility (the mod length patch — nice, EW, nice).
So at this point, my thoughts are: my current stuff = awesomeness. HS + my current stuff = happy happy lovetimes. Question is...do the mic positions justify the extra (large) leap in price from Gold to Diamond? The "sordinos" certainly don't. But I would like the extra mic flexibility and I DO like the idea of 24-bit samples to work with. There's also the question of PLAY behaving on my system.

Either way, I can't afford it just now, so I'm happy to wait a while and see what others' experiences are with the library once it goes out to the masses. Also really looking forward to actual demos soon. I love EW though, always have, and I'm really glad they put this together. I wish them the best of luck with it whether or not I end up adding it to my arsenal.

BTW, Vibrato, your post a bit back made me smile — thank you very much for being around and clearing the air a bit.


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## SvK (Jan 16, 2010)

GO HERE:

http://public.me.com/svonkampen

I've chopped the Hollywood Strings movies into much smaller bits...all of them start with "HS"

SvK


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 16, 2010)

Marius,

If 24 bit vs 16 would be a deciding factor: go for 16. You will never hear the difference in a full orchestral mix!


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## Jaap (Jan 16, 2010)

My thoughts after a second time and some things I might repeat and some others might be changed. Quite nice to hear it actually for the second time.

Pros

- great new features (full string orchestra stuff), OTHER button :mrgreen: , finger positions - all kinds of stuff and new toys to play around with.
- great overall EW sound. They sticked close to their good out of the box sounds and to their own sounds
- tons and tons of articulations 
- some of the legatos are really nice and I kinda liked as well the on the bow staccato.
- some of the short articulations where not really strong and convincing (specially the spic patches)

Cons

- some synthy sounds in the celli (removed my comment about the high strings)
- portamento is controlled by the volume as I understood, could be causing overkill. Would have preffered the LASS way with a seperate controller
- runs still don't convince me (and yeah they are probably better then anything out there and my ears are fine, but they just DON"T convince me)
- divisi is not really divisi

All in all, again I am very positive, with comments on some parts. Somebody posted that we should maybe be more positive. I tend to disagree. I fully respect East West and any other company and I applaud there extremely hard labour, but to be only positive will not make their products better. We have to stay alert and be picky customers in order to let them improve as well and the companies that pick those things up in a reasonable way can distinct themselves.

Last thought is that I actually don't like the video tutorial approach as marketing. It leaves me actually with more questions.
Don't get me wrong that I don't think the tutorial is wrong. In no way...it's very good, but as a company I would have presented a couple of demos first and then a tutorial, but I applaud the risk EW is taking by presenting them "naked" as they did now 

Again, good job East West and looking forward to purchase this in the future!


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## SvK (Jan 16, 2010)

there is NOTHING synthy about those high-strings or celli..

I'm sitting here playing the violin Leg demo up against classic scores...it's perfect.

I'm sitting here playing the original "Out Of Africa" recording..pausing it, and then play the "HS_Violin_leg"....... and it's PERFECT


SvK


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## Marius Masalar (Jan 16, 2010)

You're right, Peter, and I've actually found the same thing with LASS (especially when using an HD Impulse Response in my reverb plugin....just covers it right up!). I think at this point the most salient deciding factor for me would be the mic positions. Maybe if I hear more of the Main mics, I'll get a better sense of things.

I'm thinking though: am I really going to be using HS for an "intimate, small" kind of sound? I seriously doubt it. The only reason I would want the close mics is to be able to coax more of that immediacy and punch out of the articulations, rather than having them sound too washy with nothing but the further mics.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 16, 2010)

Marius,

You can tweak closely miked instruments very well with early reflection generators and put them into a larger stage.

A lot of people say that those reflections should be in the sample and cannot be added afterward. Rubbish, IMO. I have experimented with the extremely dry Dan Dean instruments with IR space modelling and I was able to create a huge epic french horns sound from just one dry solo horn (using the semi-pitch shift trick). With EQ-matching and stereo panning, I can match and mix it with ProjectSAM and Epic Horns.

For me the number of playing styles, legatos, RRs, etc. are far more important than the mic positions.


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## Marius Masalar (Jan 16, 2010)

I've actually done some similar trials and find that the sound you can achieve with artificial spacing is quite good, so I agree with you there, but since the same instruments and articulations are available on both packages it was really just the mics that set them apart for me (since, as we've agreed, the 24 vs 16 bit difference is a bit of a non-issue and I don't care about the sordinos since I have that covered elsewhere).

I guess that means that Gold is what I should be looking into.


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## Jaap (Jan 16, 2010)

SvK @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> there is NOTHING synthy about those high-strings or celli..
> 
> I'm sitting here playing the violin Leg demo up against classic scores...it's perfect.
> 
> ...



I withdraw my comment about the high strings. Took another listen and dunno where I found that the sound was a bit synthy, but at some point in the first listen I just did I noticed a bit "synth" like sound high strings (all relative of course and more due to the attacks I think), but after relistening the legato section of the video I can only agree.

The celli still sounds "synthy" to me as the EW strings always have done actually. It's a sort of lack of depth in the sound that makes it sort of "sterile" in my opinion.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 16, 2010)

SvK @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> there is NOTHING synthy about those high-strings or celli..
> 
> I'm sitting here playing the violin Leg demo up against classic scores...it's perfect.
> 
> ...



No, it's not perfect. There are cases where the legato is iffy. The tone is nice though.


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## SvK (Jan 16, 2010)

go to my link......4 post above this and DL the chopped HS movies labeled.....

HS_Celli_Leg
HS_Violins_Leg

now open those movies while you have Itunes open and play them back to back with famous scores playing similar passages....believe me this is it!

SvK


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## SvK (Jan 16, 2010)

9 outta 10 ain't bad...legato is still being tweaked but as far as the Celli leg and Violin Leg...i hear no issues

basses is another story
I am speaking exclusively of 2 demos....the new violin leg and the celli leg....

SvK


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## SvK (Jan 16, 2010)

The tone is nice???

Murphy doesn't do nice. Murphy does Oscar 

SvK


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## SvK (Jan 16, 2010)

i can feel my inner "TheHeresy" coming on. Time for a chill pill.

SvK


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## Vision (Jan 16, 2010)

I have to agree, I do notice a bit of synthy quality to some of the violin lines in the beginning piece. But it isn't horrible at all.

I actually liked the "teaser peace" at the end of the first video more though.


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## hbuus (Jan 16, 2010)

SvK/TheHeresy, thanks to you I JUST missed being the first person to post on page 20 of this thread.

*pout*!

Henrik


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## bryla (Jan 16, 2010)

SvK @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> i can feel my inner "TheHeresy" coming on. Time for a chill pill.
> 
> SvK


You can always just edit your posts, if you want to add something, and nobody has responded.... Just don't go aenas on us!


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

From the Sounds Online Forums, I said:



> I hope eventually East West will record some similar brass/winds to TJ's custom sounds.



Doug replied with a winky smiley :wink:

http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/show ... stcount=36


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## Jaap (Jan 16, 2010)

Haha SvK, I love the passion you come up with :mrgreen: (but didn't convince me yet on the celli 0oD )

Conclusion: all in all it's a wonderull product and we can say it's a bless we can be picky on such small details and that we only can be thankfull for such an advance in technology that we roll over those extreme details.

Off for a relaxing evening o-[][]-o


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Lets all just take a break and collectively laugh at the memory of when VSL claimed legato intervals were impossible unless you recorded instruments in the driest room every created.


o-[][]-o


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## SvK (Jan 16, 2010)

what Ed said!

SvK


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 16, 2010)

I guess this really does come down to price. It's a bit higher than people were expecting, so naturally people are going to be way more critical. 

I like the tone of the strings, but the overall connection between lines is ok.

Pretty much anything we hear now might actually be moot until release. Because the real test will be hearing the result a user gets from it.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed,

The Silent Room is NOT dry! 
The name refers to its isolation, not to the lack of ERs - there are quite some ERs in VSL's samples


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Emanuel @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Ed,
> 
> The Silent Room is NOT dry!
> The name refers to its isolation, not to the lack of ERs - there are quite some ERs in VSL's samples



I wondered when someone would say something like this. lol

While I was exaggerating for the http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Lulz (lulz), the point was that VSL claimed that ambient recordings made interval recordings not work.

And HS is just another piece of hilarious proof that just about everything they claimed about the need for their silent stage was wrong.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 16, 2010)

Emanuel @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Ed,
> 
> The Silent Room is NOT dry!
> The name refers to its isolation, not to the lack of ERs - there are quite some ERs in VSL's samples



Yup, the right amount that I've found.

I'd like to hear a more close-up version of a strings only piece using HS. Still a bit muddy to me.


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## Vision (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> From the Sounds Online Forums, I said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was just about to ask.. did Thomas use all East West sounds on the last demo? I'm assuming so. But can anyone confirm? 

I shudder to think how massive in size a new EW Brass & Winds release would be. I suppose they are gonna go Hollywood Brass, Hollywood Woodwinds.. and sell them as separate libraries.


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Vision @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> I was just about to ask.. did Thomas use all East West sounds on the last demo? I'm assuming so. But can anyone confirm?
> 
> I shudder to think how massive in size a new EW Brass & Winds release would be. I suppose they are gonna go Hollywood Brass, Hollywood Woodwinds.. and sell them as separate libraries.



I would bet good money on the only East West samples in that demo is the strings.


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## Vision (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Vision @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > I was just about to ask.. did Thomas use all East West sounds on the last demo? I'm assuming so. But can anyone confirm?
> ...



Yes.. but we are talking about the infamous TJ here. He can make a glass of water look like the atlantic ocean. :lol:


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Vision @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Yes.. but we are talking about the imfamous TJ here. He can make a glass of water look like the atlantic ocean. :lol:



TJ is good but cant perform miracles, :D the other samples in that demo sound just like his custom samples to me.


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## Pochflyboy (Jan 16, 2010)

I would think they are a lot of custom libraries in there form the sounds of it but I know in the past EW has been EXTREMELY compelled to make sure their demos only had their sounds. But maybe it does not matter since all they are trying to show is the strings abilities.


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## Benjamin Beladi (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Emanuel @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Ed,
> ...



I don’t think the comparison is laughable. You do realize that EW is almost 9 years behind when it comes to the legato interval programming… VSL created their library based on research and computer processing capability done for its time, and to date no other library in the market can compete with most of their products…


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 16, 2010)

Not to mention HS isn't proof. They demonstrated portamento, but I'm not feeling the legato just yet.

In HS's defense however, "true legato" in VSL really only applies to all the libraries except Appassionata. Appassionata is so thick you can't really hear them. A lot of people would argue that VSL's legato is too obvious, but honest when it comes to mixing it seems to balance pretty well. I WOULD like a App I update though. VSL needs to stop coming out with new stuff and update their older libs (they aren't finished imo)


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## Pochflyboy (Jan 16, 2010)

Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> I don’t think the comparison is laughable. You do realize that EW is almost 9 years behind when it comes to the legato interval programming… VSL created their library based on research and computer processing capability done for its time, and to date no other library in the market can compete with most of their products…



I disagree with that statement. There are many products that easily hold up or even surpass VSL.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 16, 2010)

Pochflyboy @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t think the comparison is laughable. You do realize that EW is almost 9 years behind when it comes to the legato interval programming… VSL created their library based on research and computer processing capability done for its time, and to date no other library in the market can compete with most of their products…
> ...



Eh, well that really depends on preference of what the composer is looking for. What they value in a sample over all else.


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## theheresy (Jan 16, 2010)

ok so I just listened to the new extended demo.

The new piece at the beginning the high strings (violins) sounded very synthy to me, very disappointing. The new end piece, i.e. the Berlioz Requiem sounding monstrosity the violins sounded much better and had a very good clear sound to them however what disappointed me in this one was the legato "attacks" or rather legato switches. When the note held a tone it sounded good but often when notes switched it sounded very synthy. In fact the sounded reminded me a lot of the old EWQL orchestra, I think they sound very similar for whatever reason, HS is obviously much better but there's something about the poor legato I'm seeing that's similar to the same poor legato of old from EWQL. I'm hoping it's one of the things they're still working on since they're obviously still tooling on the library.
I'm still intrigued though...it's hard to say but it's almost like you see brief flashes of potential greatness from this lib and then other things that are disappointing...I WANT this thing to be the best thing ever because I really want to have utterly realistic strings and am tired of the strings being the weakest part of my arsenal etc...so here's hoping that subsequent demos show improvements otherwise I must conclude that I think LASS has a bit more 'class' in its sound, a little more refined maturity in its sound whereas HS sounds a lot like the old EWQL orchestra strings.
Also I'm not sure that any of those new short articulations convinced me at all. They sounded mediocre to good but not overly impressive...still unconvinced about this lib and am leaning towards LASS more and more.


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> I don’t think the comparison is laughable. You do realize that EW is almost 9 years behind when it comes to the legato interval programming… VSL created their library based on research and computer processing capability done for its time, and to date no other library in the market can compete with most of their products…



No other library is as *detailed *as VSL. So?

I mean thats what you can say about VSL. Detail. Thats why everything is so damn huge. They record a lot of stuff.

The difference with HS being so big is because they have recorded so many mics positions, while VSL only has one it just has a gazillion articulations. 

But anyway back to the point. Just ask yourself WHY VSL claimed they needed the silent stage to begin with.

Their *opinion *that their approach was best for a mixing standpoint was not the real reason. The real reason they needed that silent stage they claimed, was because they needed it to provide you with samples that had legato intervals and other performance tools basically saying they have the only stage capable of providing this. 

That is the REASON they gave. Then we had a variety of other libraries come out several years later that have the same legato intervals but recorded in a ambient enviroment. Before HS LASS even beats VSL in terms of giving you even more control over the interval speed. However, HS gives MANY mic positions including the very ambient surround mics. 

So what does it show? That the silent stage is really only good for people who like effectively bone dry samples because they like the way they can mix with them. It is completely irrelevant for their performance tools. As clearly you can do legato in very ambient environments as well.


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t think the comparison is laughable. You do realize that EW is almost 9 years behind when it comes to the legato interval programming… VSL created their library based on research and computer processing capability done for its time, and to date no other library in the market can compete with most of their products…



No other library is as *detailed *as VSL. So?

I mean thats what you can say about VSL. Detail. Thats why everything is so damn huge. They record a lot of stuff.

The difference with HS being so big is because they have recorded so many mics positions, while VSL only has one it just has a gazillion articulations. 

But anyway back to the point. Just ask yourself WHY VSL claimed they needed the silent stage to begin with.

Their *opinion *that their approach was best for a mixing standpoint was not the real reason. The real reason they needed that silent stage they claimed, was because they needed it to provide you with samples that had legato intervals and other performance tools basically saying they have the only stage capable of providing this. 

That is the REASON they gave. Then we had a variety of other libraries come out several years later that have the same legato intervals but recorded in a ambient enviroment. Before HS LASS even beats VSL in terms of giving you even more control over the interval speed. However, HS gives MANY mic positions including the very ambient surround mics. 

So what does it show? That the silent stage is really only good for people who like effectively bone dry samples because they like the way they can mix with them. It is completely irrelevant ò›   ¿…›   ¿…›   ¿…›   ¿…	›   ¿…
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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Pzy-Clone @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Ok ED, be fair ...that is NOT what vsl said, they said a hall sound and release trails got in the way of the legato intervals and other performance "tools"...they never claimed that it was only possible to record those at the silent stage?
> You are just making that bit up.



Unfortunately its hard to go back and check now, but that is the impression that they tried to convey.

Otherwise, what is the reason they gave for having the silent stage?

And how many products have come out now with *ambient *recordings that have legato intervals? I know of... BBB, some instruments in EW Gypsy, Westgate, LASS, HS. Therefore the claim that you need the silent stage to do interval sampling is wrong, it clearly isnt related to it AT ALL. Maybe *their *method required it, but obviously they were wrong. 



> Anyway, do you know that HS or LASS or whatnot does legato any other way then vsl? Even if the room HS is recorded in is bigger, there is not a 10 second release trail to deal with to substantiate your claim ? Do they have release trails in the legato transitions, becouse THAT is what vsl was saying could not be done i think...



Why do I have to substantiate *my *claim? VSL are the ones that claimed their way was the best because that's why they built the silent stage to begin with. If anything they should be the one showing us that the silent stage still provides better legato. 

My point was that VSL made out that legato was only possible if it was recorded dry, I even remember going around saying I dont know if any other developer will be able to do interval sampling because VSL says you can only do it dry!


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## Benjamin Beladi (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > No other library is as *detailed *as VSL. So?
> ...



All I’m saying is that you can’t compare 2 libraries with 9 years apart in making….East West team had VSL and other libraries with legato interval as case study or guide to build their new product… Silent stage has nothing to do with dryness of the sound; rather it was built for complete isolation in which it surely helps with editing samples and avoiding unwanted room resonances for perfect performance tuning … To answer your question: Yes, silent stage was a most to create the perfectly tuned legato interval….


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## choc0thrax (Jan 16, 2010)

Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> ...



Yeah East West had time to study what VSL had done and then released the pinnacle of legato sampling: Qlegato.


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## mech289 (Jan 16, 2010)

SvK @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> i can feel my inner "TheHeresy" coming on. Time for a chill pill.
> 
> SvK


 Oh no please, take the chill pill...


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> All I’m saying is that you can’t compare 2 libraries with 9 years apart in making….East West team had VSL and other libraries with legato interval as case study or guide to build their new product…



Of course they had it as a guide and they showed that it could be done without their special life sucking room.

Comparing 2 libraries apart is not what I am doing. I am saying that VSL promoted themselves as basically giving people the impression that the silent stage was necessary so they could give you these performance features. That we had to put up with the dryness of the sounds if you wanted true interval sampled legato and whatnot. That is shown to be false! 




> Silent stage has nothing to do with dryness of the sound;



Yes it does. 



> rather it was built for complete isolation in which it surely helps with editing samples and avoiding unwanted room resonances



"Room Resonances".. ie. ambience. See above where you just said it had nothing to do with the dryness of the sound. 



> for perfect performance tuning … To answer your question: Yes, silent stage was a most to create the perfectly tuned legato interval….



If this was their rationalisation they really aren't fooling anyone that was around at the time to hear the way they sold the idea. 

*_"We created the silent stage so we could create these wonderful performance features like true legato sampling all the interval samples between notes!..."_

6 years later when its shown you can record interval samples in a normal ambient environment.... 

"_Oh when we said that we meant "perfectly tuned" samples, obviously you can do it in a normal room"
_

*not actual quotes.


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

NYC Composer @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> So what? I mean, I use EW Platinum so I have no dog in the hunt, but what's your point, how stupid and arrogant VSL was to make a specific claim? They took a particular point of view. It worked out pretty well for them financially and a lot of composers seemed to use their products quite successfully. Time and technology marches on, new theories are postulated, new methods are implemented. That doesn't mean the older products sucked. I got the Epic Orchestra with VePro- I think the oboe d'amore sounds fab, personally.Epic Horns aren't bad either.



VSL is still very good, but could have been a lot better had they recorded in a proper environment rather than their custom built room that they claimed they only built that way so they could give you the performance features we now know can be done without it.


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## Benjamin Beladi (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > All I’m saying is that you can’t compare 2 libraries with 9 years apart in making….East West team had VSL and other libraries with legato interval as case study or guide to build their new product…
> ...



This is turning to an argument now...You seem very anti VSL and obviously pro EW… my suggestion would be to wait and try the legato in HS first before making a stand…


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> This is turning to an argument now...You seem very anti VSL and obviously pro EW… my suggestion would be to wait and try the legato in HS first before making a stand…




Im not anti-VSL and Pro EW at all!

I like products from both. 

The fact remains that its funny that VSL used to make out that legato samples could not be recorded in an ambient environment. 

The reason why I find it so funny is because VSL are the only developer to have constructed an entire very expensive studio apparently based on a theory that we now know that is for all practical purposes *wrong*.


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## theheresy (Jan 16, 2010)

wow :shock: can Mods please do an IP trace on "Ed" as I suspect it will be routed back to EWQL's headquarters. I've never seen a person so hateful against a single company. VSL as a company has the highest percentage of quality products (PRODUCTS, this includes libraries AND software) of any sound manufacturer PERIOD. So you're just blowing hot air pal. These other guys are doing what VSL did 10 years ago. HS is a step forward for EWQL big deal that's how it works, and in 1.5 months VSL is releasing a choir lib that will blow EWQL Symph. Choirs out of the water, it's all progression and the progress is better for us. I suggest you stop trying to trash VSL because if it weren't for VSL none of the other companies would have progressed with their techniques and we wouldn't be sitting here right now discussing HS.


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

theheresy @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> wow :shock: can Mods please do an IP trace on "Ed" as I suspect it will be routed back to EWQL's headquarters. I've never seen a person so hateful against a single company.



Are you a conspiracy theorist as well? :roll: 

East West has had its fair share of Fails, I don't really like the sound of the normal East West orchestra at all and I could talk about their products I dislike as well. 

But VSL has been the only one to make an Epic Fail when they first came on the scene, what makes it so Epic is how much money they spent on their studio. It has since worked out for them anyway, but it was still based on a fail theory. The silent stage is effectively pointless vs a proper room.


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## Marius Masalar (Jan 16, 2010)

Speaking of choirs, is no one else desperately curious to know what TJ used in that demo at the end of the extended video? And by the way, holy shit that's a hell of a track.

But seriously: the brass and choirs...are we thinking those are just from his custom collection or does showcasing them here + Doug's wink = upcoming sectional libraries, of which Strings is the first? Personally, I'm really rooting for the latter because I think we could really go for some spectacular brass about now, and those choirs sounded wonderful.


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## RiffWraith (Jan 16, 2010)

theheresy @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> VSL as a company has the highest percentage of quality products (PRODUCTS, this includes libraries AND software) of any sound manufacturer PERIOD.



That is opinion - not fact.



theheresy @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> wow :shock: can Mods please do an IP trace on "Ed" as I suspect it will be routed back to EWQL's headquarters.



Do you know what the EWQL headquaters ip address is? If not, what difference would it make when anyone looks at Ed's ip addy if it can't be traced anywhere?


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## choc0thrax (Jan 16, 2010)

theheresy @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> wow :shock: can Mods please do an IP trace on "Ed" as I suspect it will be routed back to EWQL's headquarters. I've never seen a person so hateful against a single company. VSL as a company has the highest percentage of quality products (PRODUCTS, this includes libraries AND software) of any sound manufacturer PERIOD. So you're just blowing hot air pal. These other guys are doing what VSL did 10 years ago. HS is a step forward for EWQL big deal that's how it works, and in 1.5 months VSL is releasing a choir lib that will blow EWQL Symph. Choirs out of the water, it's all progression and the progress is better for us. I suggest you stop trying to trash VSL because if it weren't for VSL none of the other companies would have progressed with their techniques and we wouldn't be sitting here right now discussing HS.



Likely he's a sleeper agent. He must have been activated shortly after the HS launch.


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Mathazzar @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Personally, I'm really rooting for the latter because I think we could really go for some spectacular brass about now, and those choirs sounded wonderful.



Im pretty sure you will be disappointed.


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## choc0thrax (Jan 16, 2010)

I just want the choirs.


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## Frederick Russ (Jan 16, 2010)

theheresy, Ed does not work for East West. Never has.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 16, 2010)

VSL has a room sound. It's not dry. It has a very small room sound, which is normally what you'd get with a recording studio situation. EW has almost TOO much room at some points in my opinion. Honestly, I really don't want ambiance in my samples, just a bit of room sound to get the real feel of the instrument. From then I prefer to engineer based on the project.

That being said, having ordered a string lib that has some degree of ambiance in it, I'll see how that works. But from a production standpoint, sending VSL stems down to an LA studio definitely helped since they were dry, and he could put his 10k dollar plus reverb unit to them.

As far as the "legato war" I still think VSL wins in that department on some of their libraries. Specifically Epic Horns. Hands down those are the best french horn legatos you can buy now still. When EW released QLegato, I wasn't entirely impressed. And I haven't really heard anything new legato wise in HS.


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## bryla (Jan 16, 2010)

Mathazzar @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> And by the way, holy [email protected]#t that's a hell of a track.


Doug wrote about it on the Soundsonline-forum:
A track Thomas composed yesterday....


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## Pochflyboy (Jan 16, 2010)

theheresy @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> I've never seen a person so hateful against a single company. VSL as a company has the highest percentage of quality products (PRODUCTS, this includes libraries AND software) of any sound manufacturer PERIOD.



1. I have seen people a lot more hateful towards a single company.

2. There are many producers out there that make a "high percentage" of excellent products (project SAM, cinesamples are two that have had nothing but products that are knockouts) Quit shooting yourself in the foot by offering opinions like that. EW and VSL have both had their share of successes and failures.


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> As far as the "legato war" I still think VSL wins in that department on some of their libraries. Specifically Epic Horns. Hands down those are the best french horn legatos you can buy now still. When EW released QLegato, I wasn't entirely impressed. And I haven't really heard anything new legato wise in HS.



That's rubbish. You cant compare VSL's interval sampling to QLegato which wasnt interval sampling. Heck, it wasn't even as good as scripted legato like SIPS. 

You especially cant compare it to Epic Horns, EW haven't even recorded Hollywood Brass yet. How about you compare HS and LASS to Appassionata or their old strings if you're going to compare it to something. 

What you should compare it to is Broadway Big Band which has the best interval legato sampling I've ever heard.



> it has a very small room sound, which is normally what you'd get with a recording studio situation.



Lets face facts. VSL didnt design the silent stage so it would create really nice room tones. That wasn't their primary objective.


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## autopilot (Jan 16, 2010)

Hey - maybe when VSL recorded their legato 8 years ago that was the only way they could do it. 

What with older computers, EXS and giga as their front engines and so forth... I don't think they lied, I just think that things have moved on. 

Personally I love VSL dry, as you can hear every click if you want it. 

Have bought Gold Dry or "Close" and am looking forward to trying them out when I can be arsed to get Play running on my new mac...

As far as HS go - they'll be really good at some stuff, not so good at others and will play well with the other top line products (VSL - LASS) which will also have different strengths and weaknesses. 

Wow - what a surprise.


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## Pochflyboy (Jan 16, 2010)

Mathazzar @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> But seriously: the brass and choirs...are we thinking those are just from his custom collection or does showcasing them here + Doug's wink = upcoming sectional libraries, of which Strings is the first? Personally, I'm really rooting for the latter because I think we could really go for some spectacular brass about now, and those choirs sounded wonderful.



I don't think EW has come close to recording the next library because they have a lot of projects they are working on now. So I don't think the choirs or brass are from a unannounced EW library. I do think that Doug's wink pretty much says that if HS is the success they plan then they will absolutely be doing more sections. I am sure brass will be next... we are in need of a new good brass library for orchestra.


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## Marius Masalar (Jan 16, 2010)

Good point, Pochflyboy. Ah well, that demo still left me mightily impressed.


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

autopilot @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Hey - maybe when VSL recorded their legato 8 years ago that was the only way they could do it.



Its not really though is it, I mean they even had to make people use their performance tool because the samplers at the time couldn't do what they wanted it to do. But regardless, if they felt that was the only way, that is why I think its funny, as I said to begin with 



> I don't think they lied, I just think that things have moved on.



Is that what people think I'm saying they were doing? Lying? I never said that.


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## germancomponist (Jan 16, 2010)

I never liked this dead sound from that silent stage, compared to the real thing. All real tone is built also with/in a room, stage or whatever. 

For it allone, VSL with using the right er`s can sound very good, but I always hear when a piece is done with VSL samples. Maybe in some years it is better when the convolution reverbs are better. For now this libs who needs all that convo tools have their own sound. Not bad, but not as near to the real thing than for example now HS are.

I think some people (maybe the younger) are more camparing libraries and not doing a comparison between a lib and the real thing. 

When the next HS demos are impressing me as much as these 2 did, its sure that this will be my next library.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed rules. Always has. =o


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 16, 2010)

> That's rubbish. You cant compare VSL's interval sampling to QLegato which wasn't interval sampling. Heck, it wasn't even as good as scripted legato like SIPS.



I know, but EW when they released it claimed it was "true legato" at the time. Can't really find any real proof of that now though. I believe that started with the Gypsy libraries. EW at one point comment that VSL was doing it wrong. But I still haven't seen a real example of true legato from EW.

That includes pieces of the HS demo.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 16, 2010)

Just listened to the new version - not sure what I can add, really.

On the basis of what we've heard so far, I don't think there's any non-special-effectsy stuff that HS won't successfully pull off for ensemble strings. If you can write it or play it, HS will be able to realise it to a standard somewhere between very good and virtually perfect. That's a helluv'an accomplishment. In a desperate attempt to look for a down side, perhaps it is effects - I've been surprised just how much I've used those Symphobia effects, and I'll still need them post-HS.

And TB's choirs HAVE to be real...


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## Pzy-Clone (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Pzy-Clone @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok ED, be fair ...that is NOT what vsl said, they said a hall sound and release trails got in the way of the legato intervals and other performance "tools"...they never claimed that it was only possible to record those at the silent stage?
> ...



Why do I have to substantiate *my *claim? VSL are the ones that claimed their way was the best because that's why they built the silent stage to begin with. If anything they should be the one showing us that the silent stage still provides better legato. 

My point was that VSL made out that legato was only possible if it was recorded dry, I even remember going around saying I dont know if any otherò¾   ¿“J¾   ¿“K¾   ¿“L¾   ¿“M¾   ¿“N¾   ¿“O¾   ¿“P¾   ¿“Q¾   ¿“R¾   ¿“S¾   ¿“T¾   ¿“U¾   ¿“V¾   ¿“W¾   ¿“X¾   ¿“Y¾   ¿“Z¾   ¿“[¾   ¿“\¾   ¿“]¾   ¿“^¾   ¿“_¾   ¿“`¾   ¿“a¾   ¿“b¾   ¿“c¾   ¿“d¾   ¿“e¾   ¿“f¾   ¿“g¾   ¿“h¾   ¿“i¾   ¿“j¾   ¿“k¾   ¿“l¾   ¿“m¾   ¿“n¾   ¿“o¾   ¿“p¾   ¿“q¾   ¿“r¾   ¿“s¾   ¿“t¾   ¿“u¾   ¿“v¾   ¿“w¾   ¿“x¾   ¿“y¾   ¿“z¾   ¿“{¾   ¿“|¾   ¿“}¾   ¿“~¾   ¿“¾   ¿“€¾   ¿“¾   ¿“‚¾   ¿“ƒ¾   ¿“„¾   ¿“…¾   ¿“†¾   ¿“‡¾   ¿“ˆ¾   ¿“‰¾   ¿“Š¾   ¿“‹¾   ¿“Œ¾   ¿“¿   ¿“Ž¿   ¿“¿   ¿“¿


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 16, 2010)

oops


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## autopilot (Jan 16, 2010)

> I don't think they lied, I just think that things have moved on.



Is that what people think I'm saying they were doing? Lying? I never said that.[/quote]

Sorry - and to be clear - I didn't mean it like that Ed.

I just suspect that *at the time * they recorded their stuff VSL didn't know of any other way to do it. That may well have been proven untrue since then but I don't think they were purposefully misleading their customers. 

Now they have a legacy of all this dry stuff and have to use it, and have found a new marketing reason for dry sounds perhaps. 


Anyways ...


----------



## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Hey Ed, how come you're never on IRC anymore? o/~



Lazy.  Whats the address anyway?


----------



## choc0thrax (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> choc0thrax @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Ed, how come you're never on IRC anymore? o/~
> ...



irc.freenode.net : 6667
room: #vi-control 


I know it's a pain to find your way in there the first time but then the info is like saved or something and you just clikc some buttons.


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 16, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> germancomponist @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > For it allone, VSL with using the right er`s can sound very good, but I always hear when a piece is done with VSL samples. This libs have their own sound. Not bad, but not as near to the real thing than for example now HS are.
> ...



A nice piece, thanks for sharing! But also here, you can hear that it is the VSL sound, for example the cellos at 1.31.


----------



## Vision (Jan 16, 2010)

theheresy @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> how bout this for an idea:
> 
> EWQL (Thomas Bergersen more specifically) needs to realize that they can easily make more money in one day than HS will ever make:
> 
> ...



It's not that simple. Yeah, I think that a person of TB's mock up skills could teach you a thing or two. But in the end, some things you just can't teach. You have to be able to hear it and feel it. I think he does have the tools at his disposal to make phenomenal orchestrations. But the guy is a very talented _composer_. Technical knowledge is half the battle.


----------



## oldbrian (Jan 16, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> > That's rubbish. You cant compare VSL's interval sampling to QLegato which wasn't interval sampling. Heck, it wasn't even as good as scripted legato like SIPS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



QLegato was just an attack kill-off by sample start point settings (at least in SO). When they say "true legato" nowadays they mean actual sampled intervals, at least on their current product pages they are rather consistent with using this, so those stuff Gypsy onwards (Gypsy violin, certain Silk instruments, etc.) are their real take on this matter, not scripted/edited things.

Ed: come on, don't get so worked up on something you may not even remember correctly  From what I remember from the post you must be referring to, the point that guy from VSL was making is that huge ambiances built into recordings won't get you far when trying to do sampled intervals. Neither LASS, nor Westgate libs have big ambience, and HS doesn't seem to have it either so I don't see that argument being proven wrong. At least I don't remember them saying that any kind of ambience is bad.


----------



## Pzy-Clone (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> So just believe them, even though we have products now that can do every performance technique that VSL initially came up with but recorded in an ambient enviroment?



But you are mixing up the concepts...VSl said the hall ambience and release trails got in the way of legato sampling, not that legato was impossible elsewhere or in a bigger room?

...yeah HS, CS are much wetter, but they might be doing it exactly the same way VSl have for years, no release trails...so it does not prove them wrong in that case.

Actualy even Big bob in the more recent launch of Sips 2 said he had tried to incorporate release trails in the script in between legato notes, but id didnt work and he scrapped the idea. That in this very forum. 
That might be false now, as you say...but you cant give any merit to that claim beyond asumptions.?
In the end it doesn matter tho, if what we hear is satisfactory, and the ambient stuff works as well or better than VSL...but it just seems a tad silly to sit here and claim vsl being "wrong".



> Dont quote me out of context, I never said Epic Horns was an Epic Fail. I said the concept of the silent stage was an Epic Fail.
> 
> And I do have to correct you, Epic Horns is probably the best _commercially available _sampled horn section.



Well, Epic Horns being a result of the silent stage...u connect the dots.


----------



## Peter Alexander (Jan 16, 2010)

theheresy @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> how bout this for an idea:
> 
> EWQL (Thomas Bergersen more specifically) needs to realize that they can easily make more money in one day than HS will ever make:
> 
> ...



We've had it out for a while - we created it with Andy Blaney's permission: 
http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products/Master-MIDI-Mock-up-Course__AU-MM-Home-spc-Study.aspx (http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products ... Study.aspx)

Then we have our newly expanded Professional Mentor dealing with MIDI Mockups including new recording exercises you do with your own samples:
http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products/Professional-Orchestration-Vol-1--Expanded-Basic-Home-Study-Program__AP-ProOrch-BasicStudyPkg.aspx (http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products ... dyPkg.aspx)

Applied Orchestration
http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products/A-Practical-Handbook--From-Piano-to-Strings---BookMIDIWorkbookAudio-Bundle__OrchPrac-PnoStgs-Audio-MIDI.aspx (http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products ... -MIDI.aspx)

Ravel maybe?
http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products/How-Ravel-Orchestrated--Mother-Goose-Suite-BookAudio-Bundle__978-0939067121.aspx (http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products ... 67121.aspx)

Endorsements
http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products/Professional-Orchestration-3-Volume-Set__PO-1-2A2B.aspx (http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products ... -2A2B.aspx)



We've put in hundreds of hours to develop materials so folks here can develop professional MIDI mockup skills.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jan 16, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> theheresy @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > how bout this for an idea:
> ...



Are you saying that Thomas wrote that course?


----------



## madbulk (Jan 16, 2010)

After a no-thinking-about-string-libs day, I just returned to find the new extended video.
And I don't care what any of you guys say.
That TJ is pretty good.


----------



## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

oldbrian @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Ed: come on, don't get so worked up on something you may not even remember correctly  From what I remember from the post you must be referring to, the point that guy from VSL was making is that huge ambiances built into recordings won't get you far when trying to do sampled intervals. Neither LASS, nor Westgate libs have big ambience, and HS doesn't seem to have it either so I don't see that argument being proven wrong. At least I don't remember them saying that any kind of ambience is bad.



For all those who think I am not remembering it correctly, please tell me why is it VSL claimed they needed to built the silent stage in the first place. 

And btw HS is very ambient, listen to those surround mics! 



Pzy-Clone @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> ...yeah HS, CS are much wetter, but they might be doing it exactly the same way VSl have for years, no release trails...so it does not prove them wrong in that case



I don't understand what you are saying here.



> Actualy even Big bob in the more recent launch of Sips 2 said he had tried to incorporate release trails in the script in between legato notes, but id didnt work and he scrapped the idea. That in this very forum.



The fact remains that the silent stage really is practically pointless. They could have built a room based on its tonal strengths, instead they built it that way to fit a theory that turned out to be wrong. 



> That might be false now, as you say...but you cant give any merit to that claim beyond asumptions.?



I don't know what you think I must prove. The fact that HS, LASS and Broadway Big Band all do interval legato sampling and in the case of BBB and LASS being released already we know they do it better than VSL, we know that the silent stage is unnecessary. 

I mean surely if you want to prove otherwise you will at least be able to show me how VSL has produced products that can outdo BBB or LASS. But you can't because these products do it better. 



> .but it just seems a tad silly to sit here and claim vsl being "wrong".



I dont see why its in debate. What practical purpose does their silent stage serve?



> Well, Epic Horns being a result of the silent stage...u connect the dots.



As I said before, they didn't design the silent stage to sound good. Anything actually sounding okay or good in it is pure coincidence. Besides I heard TJ had them change their recording techniques for Epic Horns so we'd have to ask just how different Epic Horns recording setup was compared with the typical.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 16, 2010)

Can I ask who is TJ?


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## José Herring (Jan 16, 2010)

As I remember vsl designed the silent stage because they wanted the instruments to have little to no ambiance so that the samples would work in any mix environment.

Imo it was a huge mistake as most instruments especially the lower brass and strings require ambiance for the sound.

of course the problem with recorded ambiance is that you're stuck with what was recorded. Also vsl stated that anybody who could afford their samples probably had their own professional engineers that could set up ambiances and that composers wouldn't be doing the mixing.

As critical as I've been of vsl in the past one needs to consider that the samples are old and came out at a time back when we all did use professional engineers and samples were used primarily for demos. Of course some composers still work that way, but most do not.

I've heard some amazing things with vsl, but none of it coming from the average user. Most of it coming from guys like Jbacal and Guy Bacos who have made somewhat of a mini career doing vsl demos. 

In the end as time moves on VSL has a lot of catching up to do.

Jose


----------



## Dan Mott (Jan 16, 2010)

Anyone want to confirm if the brass and choirs used in that extended demo were real or not, or even if a bit of the strings were live too??


It sounded toooo real.


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## Justus (Jan 16, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> Can I ask who is TJ?



Thomas J. Bergersen, composer and producer of Hollywood Strings


----------



## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

The fact that people seriously think the strings in a strings sample library demo are live just makes me laugh :D.

TJ is just that good, I guess it will take for him to make a statement before y'all believe.


----------



## oldbrian (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> For all those who think I am not remembering it correctly, please tell me why is it VSL claimed they needed to built the silent stage in the first place.



I don't remember what they claimed back then, but I dug up the thread I think you were referring to at some point: http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=182872#182872 - there Dietz meant big ambiances. Or did you mean some other post from them?


----------



## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

oldbrian @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Ed @ Sun Jan 17 said:
> 
> 
> > For all those who think I am not remembering it correctly, please tell me why is it VSL claimed they needed to built the silent stage in the first place.
> ...



*"... which doesn't change the fact that you can't record usable legato- or repetition-samples in venues with huge reverb-tails"* - Dietz

How does this prove your point? ... Dietz is obviously just plain wrong, like I've been saying.


----------



## NYC Composer (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm very thankful to have Platinum and close mics now, but as someone who struggled for years with the mush that was Gold, Vienna's plan doesn't seem so bad to me.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Jan 16, 2010)

Justus @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Guy Bacos @ Sun Jan 17 said:
> 
> 
> > Can I ask who is TJ?
> ...



Oh, I'm use to T.B, I thought it might be someone else.


----------



## Benjamin Beladi (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> As I said before, they didn't design the silent stage to sound good. Anything actually sounding okay or good in it is pure *coincidence.* Besides I heard TJ had them change their recording techniques for Epic Horns so we'd have to ask just how different Epic Horns recording setup was compared with the typical.



Man! It’s hard to get through you.... Simple as this, 10 years ago VSL (the pioneer of legato intervals) their studies pointed that the silent stage was the best solution, so they built it, and now obviously they need to protect their investment by keep it in operation… Was it a good investment? No offense to you, I don’t think you are a qualified sample programmer or acoustician to debate…correct me if Im wrong

Again the relation between silent stage and sound dryness is irrelevant… Listen to Imperial Bosendofer Far mic position, does it sound dry to you?





Guy Bacos @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Can I ask who is TJ?



Stay out of it Bacos...its not your fight


----------



## Guy Bacos (Jan 16, 2010)

Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Guy Bacos @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Can I ask who is TJ?
> ...



The real question is: Who are you? :wink:


----------



## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Benjamin Beladi @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Man! It’s hard to get through you.... Simple as this, 10 years ago VSL (the pioneer of legato intervals) their studies pointed that the silent stage was the best solution, so they built it, and now obviously they need to protect their investment by keep it in operation… Was it a good investment? No offense to you, I don’t think you are a qualified sample programmer or acoustician to debate…correct me if Im wrong



Here's what actually happened. 

10 Years ago they had a theory that they could record interval samples and lots of round robin repetitions but thought you needed a very dry room for that to work. They built a VERY expensive studio based off that theory. 

Later, it was shown you don't need a "silent stage" for that and could even record the same performance techniques in a very ambient room. 

Now VSL have to make up crazy rationalisations to try and make you think the silent stage still is the best way, despite being proven wrong, becuase otherwise they might loose customers and they wouldn't want to have to build a whole new studio.

That's why Deitz in Oct 2009 said:

_"... which doesn't change the fact that you can't record usable legato- or repetition-samples in venues with huge reverb-tails"_

Apparently not only is he wrong here _(he was giving you an extreme situation "huge reverb-tails", I think HS surround mics prove him wrong there_) he was presenting a very black and white argument.

Logically the fact is even if you couldn't record usable legato and repetition samples in a very ambient environment that doesn't therefore make the silent stage the only alternative. As LASS and BBB show they don't need it and can do it better than VSL can, so Dietz is talking nonsense. 

*Once again, what purpose does the silent stage serve? *VSL have said and implied over and over that this is the only way you can record usable legato and repetition samples, but we know that isnt true. 



> Again the relation between silent stage and sound dryness is irrelevant… Listen to Imperial Bosendofer Far mic position, does it sound dry to you?



1. When did they record that piano? 
2. Pianos don't require legato.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 16, 2010)

The more ambiance, the more it's going to hide any distinct character. LASS isn't really THAT wet. And the surround mics of HS kind of did hit a lot of recorded legato (assuming it was there)


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

LASS isnt that wet, thats right. But Andrew chose the room for its character. 

Again, what about BBB, that sounds miles ahead of anything comparable from VSL. That wasn't recorded on a silent stage was it? They also offer 4 microphone positions!


----------



## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 16, 2010)

That's a lib I haven't heard of.

Same goes for CS, they actually recorded in a hall.


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## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

Nathan BBB is Broadway Big Band. Go listen to some demos.


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 16, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> 
> 
> > theheresy @ Sat Jan 16 said:
> ...



I said we had training materials. I a gave a link for review.The materials have been available for about two years.

You learn the most common orchestral articulations, including divisi, from electronic realizations of Jeux de vagues from La Mer and Jupiter from The Planets. You get the MP3, live recording for comparison, plus other materials.

In the absence of having divisi strings, Andy Blaney's work is compelling, dynamic, and worth studying.


----------



## Ed (Jan 16, 2010)

HAHAHA someone voted to ban me. 

I loled.


----------



## madbulk (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> HAHAHA someone voted to ban me.
> 
> I loled.



we can vote to ban Ed?


----------



## madbulk (Jan 16, 2010)

C'mon man, you want a warning. Everybody wants a warning. Those are hard to get.


----------



## Mike Connelly (Jan 16, 2010)

Mathazzar @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> I've actually done some similar trials and find that the sound you can achieve with artificial spacing is quite good, so I agree with you there, but since the same instruments and articulations are available on both packages it was really just the mics that set them apart for me (since, as we've agreed, the 24 vs 16 bit difference is a bit of a non-issue and I don't care about the sordinos since I have that covered elsewhere).
> 
> I guess that means that Gold is what I should be looking into.



Just to make sure people aren't under the wrong impression, HS Gold leaves out the extra mic positions, the divisi and sordino (which are faked to some degree anyway) and bow change legato. The first bunch are all pretty expendable in my opinion, but bow change legato is a huge thing to leave out. I suspect that they figured out that the difference in mic positions is much more subtle than in EWQLSO and felt like they had to pick something pretty major to differentiate the two libraries. If it had bow change, it would be a no brainer for many people, but that one will be a deal breaker for many.


----------



## SvK (Jan 16, 2010)

i don't want a warning...I want a burger 

SvK


----------



## Udo (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> HAHAHA someone voted to ban me.
> 
> I loled.



Well, Ed, you DO carry on. Your facts may be a little more correct, but you're becomming as much of a nuisance as 'theheresy' was on another subject in this thread.

You appear to be as intransigent as you're accusing VSL to be  

BTW, I didn't ask for you to be banned. Nevertheless, 'stick a sock in it'


----------



## Dan Mott (Jan 16, 2010)

Well if you think the brass and the choirs weren't real..... then what library do you think those samples came from?? definatly not SO, or chris heins horns, or symphobia.

The choirs and brass sounded that good they distracted me from listening to the strings which makes one like me think they were real. Doug did mention the strings would be included in some sort of orchestration and he also mentioned there would be "just" a string section by it's self at the start.


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## JBacal (Jan 16, 2010)

The Hollywood Strings sound excellent and I look forward to hearing more. Congrats EASTWEST on this huge project!

Best wishes,
Jay


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 16, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> Therefore the claim that you need the silent stage to do interval sampling is wrong, it clearly isnt related to it AT ALL. Maybe *their *method required it, but obviously they were wrong.



What exactly was their claim? I'd love to see a link to an exact quote, otherwise the whole discussion is fairly useless.

It's hard to fault them for taking a given approach when it let them release legato instruments almost ten years before some other companies. EW _still_ doesn't have legato winds and brass. And to be honest, I'm still not convinced that EW is doing legato as well as VSL did it on their first attempt.


----------



## choc0thrax (Jan 16, 2010)

madbulk @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> C'mon man, you want a warning. Everybody wants a warning. Those are hard to get.



I think I'm one of only two people on the forum with a warning, it's pretty hard to get. I didn't know we could vote to ban people! How do I access that feature??


----------



## Peter Alexander (Jan 16, 2010)

VSL built the silent stage because they were unable to work things out with with local studio bookings. In the end, it was decided that because of the amount of recording they were doing, it would be better to build their own, which they had the financing to do.


----------



## tmhuud (Jan 16, 2010)

JBacal @ Sat Jan 16 said:


> The Hollywood Strings sound excellent and I look forward to hearing more. Congrats EASTWEST on this huge project!
> 
> Best wishes,
> Jay



Now that is just high cotton ladies and gentlemen. High cotton.


----------



## midphase (Jan 16, 2010)

"Logically the fact is even if you couldn't record usable legato and repetition samples in a very ambient environment that doesn't therefore make the silent stage the only alternative. As LASS and BBB show they don't need it and can do it better than VSL can, so Dietz is talking nonsense. "


I'm with Ed...however, in all fairness, when Dietz said that, there was no such thing as KScripting. I think scripting changed a lot of stuff that before was simply impossible to achieve. So maybe he was telling the truth at the time...and now that technology has changed that statement no longer applies.

If anything, the main fault that you could lay on them is that they didn't change their strategy quickly enough once the technology allowed them to do more ambient sampling.


----------



## bryla (Jan 16, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> I didn't know we could vote to ban people! How do I access that feature??


The black button on all posts


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jan 16, 2010)

So you guys want to beat up Dietz for saying something that hasnt quite panned out as he thought?

I think there are probably a few different ways of doing a sample library and VSL saw fit to do it their own way.

BTW - Another leading reason people seem to forget is that VSL wanted dry samples so that we could bend them to our needs - apply our own Reverbs etc. This is not possible in so many existing sample libraries - where it becomes difficult to apply your own settings - of course for those who want out of the box sounds - VSL is not the thing at all.

But mind you - VSL legatos have held up really well against all sample libraries till now - so I think their method of sampling is justified. 

I think VSL is still the best orchestral sample library over all. It has wide ranging samples that have been recorded with lot of care. 

East Wests new Hollywood Stings sound great too!! 


I mean we should be happy we have so many tools now - VSL, LASS, Holllywood Strings, Project Sam etc....


I dont know why people have a tedency to go negative on this thread on one topic after another!!


Tanuj.


----------



## nikolas (Jan 17, 2010)

vibrato @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> I dont know why people have a tedency to go negative on this thread on one topic after another!!


It's not just a tendency. It's years of practice in this and other forums! :D

I swear when I become famous I'll pay someone to delete all my posts from all the forums I've been, so that people won't be able to hold me responsible for something I said 7 years ago or something... :D Or I'll just leave behind an edited post like "Post deleted for prosperity reasons" or something to that end... ~o)


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## re-peat (Jan 17, 2010)

I'm still very proud of all my posts. Even the positive ones.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 17, 2010)

Hopefully constructive suggestion - start a "is the silent stage on VSL a failed concept?" thread, and banter over there, I kinda want to talk about HS here and it's getting hard to find the posts that do...

While none of us know exactly what's in the TB demo (my own guess is a combo of commercial and custom libs with live brass and choirs), we're at a pretty remarkable point. Firstly - the strings hold their own in a composition that, all together, sounds somewhere between 99.5% and 100% real IMHO. Right there, that's stunning. Second, this really is just the beginning - Hollywood Brass, Hollywood Percussion and, er, Hollywood Winds will come. Oh, and Hollywood Choirs. Within 5 years, I'd expect that piece to be fully achievable with sample libs - with other devs snapping at EWQL's heels, of course.

And that, of course, won't be the end either. Not just ever-expanding sizes of libraries, but increasingly clever scripting with nods to AI... the stuff will be easier to play and program, and have ever more detail and versatility (I forgot to mention in my previous post that HS really has just the one Hollywood sound, other libs would have to be used for more intimate or classical ensembles).

Incredible times.


----------



## Dan Mott (Jan 17, 2010)

Hollywood Choirs (HC) Would be amazing and that's the one sample library i'd choose to be pimped out with Hollywood, then after maybe the percussion (HP)


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 17, 2010)

Dan-Jay @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> Hollywood Choirs (HC) Would be amazing and that's the one sample library i'd choose to be pimped out with Hollywood, then after maybe the percussion (HP)



I'd go - Brass, Choirs, Woods, Percussion meself....


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## germancomponist (Jan 17, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> Hopefully constructive suggestion - start a "is the silent stage on VSL a failed concept?" thread, and banter over there, I kinda want to talk about HS here and it's getting hard to find the posts that do...
> .....



Very good man!


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## Stephen Baysted (Jan 17, 2010)

We already have Hollywood Winds


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 17, 2010)

Rousseau @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> We already have Hollywood Winds



Indeed, hence my little "er" on my post! What about Hollywoodwoodwinds? Nothing daft about that, is there?

Or there's HollyWoods. But then she is an ex girlfriend of mine, and if my experience is anything to go by, she'll take legal action....


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## Dan Mott (Jan 17, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> Rousseau @ Sun Jan 17 said:
> 
> 
> > We already have Hollywood Winds
> ...



Lol!!


----------



## Ben H (Jan 17, 2010)

EDIT


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 17, 2010)

Yes, very nice demos at the start and the end!


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## ChrisAxia (Jan 17, 2010)

Yes, very nice new demos by TJB! The full orchestral piece at the end is really impressive, and really shows how well HS work in an epic context. The on bow staccatos also sounded amazing to my ears. 

~C


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Jan 17, 2010)

ChrisAxia @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> Yes, very nice new demos by TJB! The full orchestral piece at the end is really impressive, and really shows how well HS work in an epic context. The on bow staccatos also sounded amazing to my ears.
> 
> ~C



Indeed. I find that sound very hard to pull off.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 17, 2010)

Can some of the newbies take it easy with the Mod warnings' buttons, please? We're all adults here, and we're just going on about a string library, not the origin of life... may the best legato win!


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Jan 17, 2010)

Shit, sorry... I tried make a joke by reporting you Ned. I thought I could make a little "winky" smiley in a comment, but instead I'm told the report is sent to 9 moderators. Holy shit. 

Sorry for that... Joke went bad. :(


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 17, 2010)

Oh man, just for that, I have to sentence you to go back to the beginning of this thread and read every single post!!


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## Pochflyboy (Jan 17, 2010)

I say we need some new brass! I like my brass and I want something new! I vote for Hollywood Brass to be next. I wonder too what they will call their woodwinds library?


----------



## Mike Connelly (Jan 17, 2010)

To desperately try and get this back on topic, I'd ask the guys who have LASS, how much of these demos do you feel like you could get with LASS? Specifically which parts of the demos do you feel like LASS can match (or beat) and which ones LASS can't touch?

In general, the sound/tone of HS is very good, but I didn't hear anything that came close to the LASS ART demo, and I'm not convinced the legatos (and the programming/scripting in general) is as good as some of the other high end strings.

Anyone know if articulations are consistent across all instruments? Same with keyswitches. Ranges?

Does anyone else think it's really lame to do a preorder sale that makes people buy before release to get a discount? Seems like it's just a way of pressuring people to make the purchase before users get there hands on it and the real strengths and weaknesses of the library become public (whether that's sonic, usability, or even bugs). Personally, I feel like if someone really stands behind a library, they would want users to be able to make an informed decision instead of trying to hide something.


----------



## Mike Connelly (Jan 17, 2010)

So when do people think HS will actually ship? They're still saying some features aren't done yet. And whenever it does ship, will it be relatively bug free or will it take months to sort everything out? Along the same lines, do people think that EW will continue tweaking the programming and even doing additional recording for expansion in the future, or just leave it and then replace it with an all new library in a few years? When will the extreme discounting start? These things have been crossing my mind based on past EW releases.


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## midphase (Jan 17, 2010)

"Does anyone else think it's really lame to do a preorder sale that makes people buy before release to get a discount? "

I think East West is free to do as they please regarding discounts or putting pressure on their customers. If you don't like the risk, don't pre-order. 

Knowing East West's aggressive business model, it would surprise me if they don't end up extending the pre-order price for at least one week after the product ships or after demos start appearing online.


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## Guy Bacos (Jan 17, 2010)

Wow, TJB's demo at the end is very impressive!! Of course the strings are nice but I mean the mockup itself. Such a talent!


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## hbuus (Jan 17, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> When will the extreme discounting start?



EW have stated there will be no discount on HS the first year after its release.

Henrik


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 17, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> So when do people think HS will actually ship? They're still saying some features aren't done yet. And whenever it does ship, will it be relatively bug free or will it take months to sort everything out? Along the same lines, do people think that EW will continue tweaking the programming?



Hmm, I must confess I'd be surprised if there weren't a fair few bugs in the first release.

And, like you, I get the strong impression that things aren't done yet. They'll need to clone heaps of hard drives, then press DVDs for the Gold version... I still think there's a reasonable chance the dates will slip.

I'm resigned to not going for it for a long time, but I'm fairly certain I will go for it eventually!


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 17, 2010)

midphase @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> "Does anyone else think it's really lame to do a preorder sale that makes people buy before release to get a discount? "
> 
> I think East West is free to do as they please regarding discounts or putting pressure on their customers. If you don't like the risk, don't pre-order.
> 
> Knowing East West's aggressive business model, it would surprise me if they don't end up extending the pre-order price for at least one week after the product ships or after demos start appearing online.



Of course they can do as they please, I'm just wondering if it leaves a bad taste with anyone else. I hope you're right that they do extend the sale after a few users have it and can do user demos and give their opinions, we'll see.

I also don't like their policy of charging the buyer's credit card at the time of the order instead of when it ships (which at times has been a period of months), anyone know if they are doing that again this time around?



hbuus @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> EW have stated there will be no discount on HS the first year after its release.



True, but that doesn't mean anything. EW has made similar claims in the past and not followed them.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 17, 2010)

When TJ was still at the conservatory in Norway he was already creating great midi-mockups (when some of us knew him as Jazz2K). Even with the most modest setups and noises from within the computer he was always being able to get you into the music and not into the sounds or sound quality. Let's not forget he studied piano and composing and indeed has always had great chops. Like Ashif said on FaceBook: we knew he was going to make it into LA/Hollywood all the time - and now he has worked with Shawn as well (besides the composing and orchestration work he did for some movies and of course the incredible Two Steps From Hell tracks!)


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 17, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> To desperately try and get this back on topic, I'd ask the guys who have LASS, how much of these demos do you feel like you could get with LASS? Specifically which parts of the demos do you feel like LASS can match (or beat) and which ones LASS can't touch?



I'm sorry, but with all due respect, I think this is the wrong question since the feature sets are radically different. 

When the question is posed, "What can LASS do that other libraries can't do?" you get a much different set of answers.

At the same time, when posing the same question at HS, you get an equally different set of answers. 

The answer sets point to the strengths of each library as well as their differences.

In the end, the real answer is, "Each library to its purpose, and where they're able to blend, combine." 

I feel that the advanced ordering with a discount had a sound rationale - there will be NO 24 shipping on Diamond. Each hard drive is custom prepared. The reason for the advance ordering is for customers to receive their drives within the first wave of duplication. Thereafter, each order is processed individually.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 17, 2010)

Excellent point of view, dear Peter!


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## Niah (Jan 17, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> To desperately try and get this back on topic, I'd ask the guys who have LASS, how much of these demos do you feel like you could get with LASS? Specifically which parts of the demos do you feel like LASS can match (or beat) and which ones LASS can't touch?
> 
> .



Like others have said, you are comparing apples and oranges. Plus no one in here has HS yet, or am I wrong?

Both libraries are dramatically different, have different features and articulations not to mention different concepts in mind. It's all available on the respective sites and you can even download the LASS manual.

Cinematic Strings and Hollywood strings and much more alike in concept and features and arts although still different. But users still bring the LASS vs HS in the table for whatever reason.

If you know what music you want and what sound and features you are most craving for in your productions then it is really easy to make a decision about all these options. Just read all the information carefully and listen to all the demos and tutorials.

Every opinion posted here about any vst or sample library should be taken with a grain of salt since we are all different musicians with different musical goals, and sometimes working in drastically different fields in music.

my 2 cents


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## stevenson-again (Jan 17, 2010)

> o desperately try and get this back on topic, I'd ask the guys who have LASS, how much of these demos do you feel like you could get with LASS? Specifically which parts of the demos do you feel like LASS can match (or beat) and which ones LASS can't touch?
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but with all due respect, I think this is the wrong question since the feature sets are radically different.



hmm - actually i don't think the question is all THAT wrong, since at some point if you were trying to choose between the 2 libraries you would want to know the comparative strengths. both libraries are still going to have to do the various things that you want it to, and there is going to be cross over in strengths. which library is going to be the easiest to work with based on what you intend to do?

i think, from what i have heard and from working quite a bit with LASS, that HS will give you 'that' hollywood sound much more easily. but LASS will give you greater flexibility and possibly definition for clarity and definition of line.

LASS's approach is to give you control over the ensemble
HS's approach gives control over the sound (multiple mic positions).

i haven't heard anything in the mockups that i didn't feel LASS couldn't do in its own way, but i did feel the shawn murphy sound and easy to use 'love' in the HS demos.

a key thing is to see how the fast slurring for runs pans out. it sounds impressive but i am with some others who have posted that felt that that can be fairly well achieved with staccato samples in LASS - especially in context.

it really is 50/50. while i really don't think there is anything in the demos i felt that LASS couldn't match, and actually there are areas where LASS will clearly beat, i also think HS is as desirable for sheer quality of sound as anything i have heard in a long time.


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## Revson (Jan 17, 2010)

Pochflyboy @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> I say we need some new brass! I like my brass and I want something new! I vote for Hollywood Brass to be next. I wonder too what they will call their woodwinds library?


It seems developers are a bit wary of brass. Personally, I don't think the world really needs another electric bass library...but they keep on coming. As much as there is a demand for electric bass, I think it's because it is a relatively inexpensive and straightforward sampling project, in comparison to something like brass. Same with percussion - all one-shots! Bang the thing and record it. (Sort of...apologies to percussion players and those who record them). 

It would have been cool, for example, if the Spitfire folks had (first) undertaken brass at AIR. Now that would have set the forum abuzz!

I'm guessing (going out on a limb...not!) within the year though we'll have a wave of new brass, similar to the strings situation now.


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 17, 2010)

stevenson-again @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> > o desperately try and get this back on topic, I'd ask the guys who have LASS, how much of these demos do you feel like you could get with LASS? Specifically which parts of the demos do you feel like LASS can match (or beat) and which ones LASS can't touch?
> >
> >
> > I'm sorry, but with all due respect, I think this is the wrong question since the feature sets are radically different.
> ...



I believe, Rohan, that I gave you a starting methodology to work out those strengths for comparison purposes. 

LASS has a list of A-list composers getting the "Hollywood" sound from LASS: Debney (IronMan II), Elfman, Newman. 

Having spent several years each with Henry Mancini and Jerry Goldsmith, I had ample opportunity to hear the "Hollywood" sound at Warners, Sony/MGM, Universal, and Fox.

The "Hollywood" sound is about how you score music to a series of moving pictures that when put together in a sequence at 24 frames per second create a motion picture, otherwise known as a movie.

If you want the "Hollywood" sound without writing chops, then buy a Lexicon 960 at $16,000+. The short walk from the music editor's desk to the control room is where the magic takes place.


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## Marius Masalar (Jan 17, 2010)

As a proud and happy user of LASS, here's why I like the look/sound of HS:

-I can't do those slurs with LASS. I can get pretty close (I've tried) but if nothing else, I certainly can't do it with one patch

-LASS' tuning is a little shakier, which makes it gorgeous for layering because it gives a lot of character to the sound....but that means you need something solid to layer it on top of

-HS has a breadth and richness to the sound that may not fit all settings, granted, but is very lush and cinematic. With the right mic combination and a little help from LASS, it looks to be capable of both the "trailer-style" my-walls-are-collapsing string sound and the modern Hollywood rich-but-present-and-clear string sound.

-LASS has kick-ass short articulations, but to be honest I still liberally make use of my EWQLSO short ò€µ   ¿Î®€µ   ¿Î¯€µ   ¿Î°€µ   ¿Î±€µ   ¿Î²€µ   ¿Î³€µ   ¿Î´€µ   ¿Îµ€µ   ¿Î¶€µ   ¿Î·€µ   ¿Î¸€µ   ¿Î¹€µ   ¿Îº€µ   ¿Î»€µ   ¿Î¼€µ   ¿Î½€µ   ¿Î¾€µ   ¿Î¿€µ   ¿ÎÀ€µ   ¿ÎÁ€µ   ¿ÎÂ€µ   ¿ÎÃ€µ   ¿ÎÄ€µ   ¿ÎÅ€µ   ¿ÎÆ€µ   ¿ÎÇ€µ   ¿ÎÈ€µ   ¿ÎÉ€µ   ¿ÎÊ€µ   ¿ÎË€µ   ¿Ï €µ   ¿Ï€µ   ¿Ï€µ   ¿Ï€µ   ¿Ï€µ   ¿Ï€¶   ¿ÎÌ€¶   ¿ÎÍ€¶   ¿ÎÎ€¶   ¿ÎÏ€¶   ¿ÎÐ€¶   ¿ÎÑ€¶   ¿ÎÒ€¶   ¿ÎÓ€¶   ¿ÎÔ€¶   ¿ÎÕ€¶   ¿ÎÖ€¶   ¿Î×€¶   ¿ÎØ€¶   ¿ÎÙ€¶   ¿ÎÚ€¶   ¿ÎÛ€¶   ¿ÎÜ€¶   ¿ÎÝ€¶   ¿ÎÞ€¶   ¿Îß€¶   ¿Îà€¶   ¿Îá€¶   ¿Îâ€¶   ¿Îã€¶   ¿Îä€¶   ¿Îå€¶   ¿Îæ€¶   ¿Îç€¶   ¿Îè€¶   ¿Îé€¶   ¿Îê€¶   ¿Îë€¶   ¿Îì€¶   ¿Îí€¶   ¿Îî€¶   ¿Îï€¶   ¿Îð€¶   ¿Îñ€¶   ¿Îò€¶   ¿Îó€¶   ¿Îô€¶   ¿Îõ€¶   ¿Îö€¶   ¿Î÷€¶   ¿Îø€¶   ¿Îù€¶   ¿Îú€¶   ¿Îû€¶   ¿Îü€¶   ¿Îý€¶   ¿Îþ€¶   ¿Îÿ€¶   ¿Ï€¶   ¿Ï€¶   ¿Ï€¶   ¿Ï	€¶   ¿Ï
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## noiseboyuk (Jan 17, 2010)

To add to the already stated differences is mic position vs ensemble size, I think the big difference is...

RUNS.

Not just the slurs - HS has octaves, major, minor, up, down, up / down and several other variations. For those - like me - who have a genetic condition that makes them throw up at any current VI's attempt at runs, this is a huge deal.

We don't know what will be in LASS 2 yet, but runs is a safe bet. IMHO, ultimately the showdown will be LASS 1+2 vs HS. And here COMBOLASS might well pip it, for the versatility.


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 17, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> Mike Connelly @ Sun Jan 17 said:
> 
> 
> > To desperately try and get this back on topic, I'd ask the guys who have LASS, how much of these demos do you feel like you could get with LASS? Specifically which parts of the demos do you feel like LASS can match (or beat) and which ones LASS can't touch?
> ...



That's exactly what I'd like to get opinions on, what seem to be the relative strengths and weaknesses, from people who have used LASS (obviously it would be better to get comparisons from people who have used both, but nobody here has used HS yet). Any feedback would be appreciated.



Niah @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> Like others have said, you are comparing apples and oranges. Plus no one in here has HS yet, or am I wrong?



Maybe it is apples and oranges, but I'm sure I'm not the only one trying to decide between this particular apple or orange. My question is how does LASS compare to what we're hearing in the demos. What LASS users feel like it can do as well or better and what not.

One specific point I'd like to see a more direct comparison is the bumblebee example, anyone care to give it their best shot with LASS?

Thanks to those who have weighed in on this.


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## zareone (Jan 17, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> If you want the "Hollywood" sound without writing chops, then buy a Lexicon 960 at $16,000+. The short walk from the music editor's desk to the control room is where the magic takes place.



Hehehe. Good one.

OT, but a Lexicon 480L software emulation is going to arrive soon. Wallets ready? :D

http://www.relab.dk/

More info: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-prod ... -leak.html


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Jan 17, 2010)

zareone @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Sun Jan 17 said:
> 
> 
> > If you want the "Hollywood" sound without writing chops, then buy a Lexicon 960 at $16,000+. The short walk from the music editor's desk to the control room is where the magic takes place.
> ...



There are already pristine IRs available from the Lex 960L and TCE System 6000


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 17, 2010)

> If you want the "Hollywood" sound without writing chops, then buy a Lexicon 960 at $16,000+. The short walk from the music editor's desk to the control room is where the magic takes place.



http://www.nathanallenpinard.com/music/song.mp3

Un-placed song that we stopped once we found the "hit" we needed.

This is using VSL solo strings, orch strings, and appassionata, with a lexicon 960 on it.

NOTE: This is NOT an example of legato (I didn't finish all the appropriate edits) just what the overall sound results.


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## zareone (Jan 17, 2010)

Emanuel @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> There are already pristine IRs available from the Lex 960L and TCE System 6000



Hi Peter,

I've realised you've a brand new website. 

I have some questions regarding your IR collections:

-Does Vol 3 overlap with 1 and 2? I mean, do they share presets? If so, in which percentage (aprox)?

-Is the Quad update just for users of legacy versions of Vol 1 and 2, or even if I buy them now, I have to pay the update to have True Stereo files? Or maybe they're just the presets for Viena and IR-1, and use the wav files of the correspondig package, vols 1 and 2 (this one is what I've understand from the description)? 

Thanks!

OK, now back to the topic: Hollywood Strings!
They sound really good but cost a lot :D and need quite a bit of HD space.


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## stevenson-again (Jan 17, 2010)

> I completely agree with this. While I love the realism LASS brings to my work, I am constantly layering with QLSO and Symphobia patches if I want a 'bigger' sound (maybe a better engineer can make LASS sound 'fuller'). I believe HS will mean that for the bigger sounding cues, I won't need to fiddle around with layering many libraries, as well as giving me a gorgeously warm sound out of the box!



i agree with this too - but i don't think the TV/film comparison is fair. let's say intimate and epic. for example, if i was going for a modern thriller alla bourne supremacy kind of sound, i would pull out LASS all day every day and HS could stay right where it currently isn't. however if i wanted the dogs, the hens and the rest of the barnyard alla the TJB demo we heard, i would want to give it some help. currently i am finding i am getting very satisfying results blending a bit of symphobia with LASS - judiciously and carefully but it gives you big and detailed and with clarity. in fact, i am doing that with live orchestral recordings anyway, i feel much more satisfied when i leave a good deal of the support i was giving LASS with symphobia for the mock-up to the the live strings - depending on the context. that may be because i am not able to afford shawn murphy/abbey road/LSO/ and the extra players, but gee - whatever works.

@ peter - i know where you are coming from, but i do think there is a worthwhile question to be asked regarding relative comparisons between the 2 libraries where they are going to be doing roughly the same job, where you wanted to have one or the other.

i had another listen to the demos, and as wonderful as the sound is, it is not as clear and transparent as LASS. i think on balance if i had to choose between the 2 libs i might plump for LASS because flexibility is really important for me. i can get a big epic with the combo of LASS and symphobia, but i can't tell you how often i have yearned for the clarity. but based on what i have heard of these HS demos it would be a tough decision. in the end i may well not be able to resist and i would have HS as well.

i am 1000% with those wanting desperately some kind of LASS or HS like brass library.


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## Ed (Jan 17, 2010)

I think it will be very good blending LASS and HS.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 17, 2010)

Ed @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> I think it will be very good blending LASS and HS.



LHASSS.


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## OB.one (Jan 17, 2010)

... but how to blend Lass with HS simulating the Real World ? ....

HS appears not to have really convincing divisi so apart adding Lass on HS it would create insane fake over synthy textures ... or i am mistaken ...

If HS would propose real Divisi perhaps it would be interesting to blend it with Lass ensembles ...

i really think these two libraries are complementary.

Olivier


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## SvK (Jan 17, 2010)

"HS appears not to have really convincing divisi so apart adding Lass on HS it would create insane fake over synthy textures ... or i am mistaken ... "

where do you guys get this from....according to TGB, the divisi stuff is some of the best in HS...the demo stuff sounds good though they did not play "divisi" parallel thirds....you can still hear into it though and it sounds great.

SvK


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## OB.one (Jan 17, 2010)

i have to listen again ...
I remembered having heard just the mics effects who gives a kind of "monophonic" sounds on the video demo and not real divisi patches ...
Sorry if am mistaken.
Best
Olivier


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## autopilot (Jan 17, 2010)

noiseboyuk @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> Ed @ Sun Jan 17 said:
> 
> 
> > I think it will be very good blending LASS and HS.
> ...



Mmm - might be a HASSL though...


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## Amit Poznansky (Jan 17, 2010)

Hello everyone,

I just watched and listened to the full video demo. Superb library!! Congratulations EASTWEST for this very impressing achievement.

All the very best,

Amit Poznansky


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 17, 2010)

SvK @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> according to TGB...



It's great that a guy who worked on it says it's great, but I need to hear that greatness demonstrated with musical demos. Especially since it's not true divisi.


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## Dave Connor (Jan 17, 2010)

CORRECTION: I made a statement that HS made the breakthrough into *adjustable short articulations*. That distinction actually belongs to LASS.


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## OvaltineJenkins (Jan 17, 2010)

CONGRATULATIONS and THANK YOU to Nick, Doug, J-Dog, and Shawn for producing such a cool product! Must have been a *massive* undertaking, and I understand you're still working on it.

The first time I listened to the demo, I was disappointed--probably because of some pie-in-the-sky expectations that this library would somehow solve all my problems in life. Thought I'd probably not buy it.

Then I listened again later expecting disappointment, and I was more impressed.

The third and fourth listens were perhaps more objective, and now I gotta have it! Great tone, best runs I've heard so far, and EastWest's point-and-shoot-out-of-the-box aural goodness sold me.

Thanks again.


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 17, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> My question is how does LASS compare to what we're hearing in the demos. What LASS users feel like it can do as well or better and what not.



Compare features between the two libraries. That's my advice to you.

Beyond that, asking for this kind of comparison is both unfair and unprofessional to EW, Doug, Nick, and TJ because the HS library is unfinished.


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## theheresy (Jan 17, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> stevenson-again @ Sun Jan 17 said:
> 
> 
> > > o desperately try and get this back on topic, I'd ask the guys who have LASS, how much of these demos do you feel like you could get with LASS? Specifically which parts of the demos do you feel like LASS can match (or beat) and which ones LASS can't touch?
> ...



none of those composers use lass exclusively though. i've spoken to two of them about it, one of which was debney and he layers symphobia and other things with Lass to get the full hollywood sound. 

I agree with what somenoe else said it's not entirely accurate to call it film/tv with lass being tv and hs film, I mean it is accurate but it almost seems to put Lass at a disadvantage when in reality there's many film applications lass would be superior to. 
Also i agree that it's not entirely fair to judge HS yet as it is unfinished. 

For NOW i'd say that Lass's strengths SEEMS like it will be better legato scripting and a more intimate, detailed and airy sound. HS's strength will be instant out of the box usability, much wider array of specific patches and a far thicker warmer hollywood sound. 
With that said, LASS fits my temperament a bit better and although in an ideal world one would have BOTH, for now I would lean towards LASS's more refined tone however there is still the possible option of getting HS Gold + Lass Lite which is the same price as HS Diamond alone.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 17, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> Mike Connelly @ Sun Jan 17 said:
> 
> 
> > My question is how does LASS compare to what we're hearing in the demos. What LASS users feel like it can do as well or better and what not.
> ...



No offense to anyone involved, but it's fair game when you release something for your users to check out, and it' not finished. Kind of like an MMO strategy.

But most of those opinions will be changed anyway, not all though. Releasing a demo of an unfinished product can actually be a pretty bad decision, as some stick to first impressions.


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## Dan Mott (Jan 17, 2010)

Speaking of LASS, i thought the legato was more in detail than HS legato was, but that's a first impression. The legato that was shown in the HS demo seemed a little......... disjointed??


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## germancomponist (Jan 17, 2010)

You all know that there now is the 3. video update? *HOLLYWOOD_STRINGS_EXT3*


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 17, 2010)

Ext 3 is the 2nd version - don't panic...


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## choc0thrax (Jan 17, 2010)

germancomponist @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> You all know that there now is the 3. video update? *HOLLYWOOD_STRINGS_EXT3*



Where is this new demo?


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## germancomponist (Jan 18, 2010)

Why don`t you visit so anymore? Too bad some wankers pissed off you there?


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## Dan Mott (Jan 18, 2010)

So...... is the video a new one, or the same as the second??


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## José Herring (Jan 18, 2010)

germancomponist @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> Why don`t you visit so anymore? Too bad some wankers pissed off you there?



No. Not really. Mostly I just felt like I couldn't be honest and get help from other forum members. That's how I usually solve a lot of my problems as tech support in the past takes too long and I find that a lot of the "techies" have little to no experience in the field.

So based on that experience I just decided to stick over here. Also, I don't have time to keep up with two forums.

Jose


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 18, 2010)

I like to have more than one type of cheese in the fridge at all times, you know, in case my guests are in the mood for something sharp, or gentle, a little hard or something soft. Then of course, there's the old little bit, that I just can't seem to get rid of... probably for sentimental reasons...


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## Stephen Baysted (Jan 18, 2010)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> I like to have more than one type of cheese in the fridge at all times, you know, in case my guests are in the mood for something sharp, or gentle, a little hard or something soft. Then of course, there's the old little bit, that I just can't seem to get rid of... probably for sentimental reasons...



Stop it, you're making me hungry and lunch isn't for another hour :mrgreen:


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 18, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Sun Jan 17 said:


> Beyond that, asking for this kind of comparison is both unfair and unprofessional to EW, Doug, Nick, and TJ because the HS library is unfinished.



I'm going to compare what is available to me to compare, thank you very much.

Because they are already _selling_ this library - if it isn't ready for the public, isn't that EW's decision?

Thanks to those who responded to my question, it has been very helpful so far, if anyone else is willing to weigh in, it would be much appreciated.

And I'd kill to hear someone take their best shot at the Bumblebee excerpt with LASS...


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 18, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> Bumblebee was performed on an unfinished library.
> 
> So doing a comparison between a finished and unfinished library, for me, is unfair to both companies.



Well, people need to make purchase decisions, so we're going to have to make comparisons using what is available to us. And all we have from HS is the "unfinished" stuff, apparently.

EW released these samples to the public, so obviously they think it's fair that people listen to them and compare. If they're OK with it, I'm OK with it.

Of course they can and hopefully will post more samples when the library is finished, although at that point I may have already bought a library.

So any LASS users want to give it a shot?


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## theheresy (Jan 18, 2010)

josejherring @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> Has anybody read all 800 replies in this thread?
> 
> Must admit that I kind of lost track around #60. Picked it up again around #700 and by #750 I was out again just kind of skimming through.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't blame others for pissing off Nick. He is quite temperamental there's a reason he was banned or self-banned from multiple forums over the years. Just check northernsounds he's on the ban list there


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## NYC Composer (Jan 18, 2010)

theheresy @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> josejherring @ Mon Jan 18 said:
> 
> 
> > Has anybody read all 800 replies in this thread?
> ...



Now THAT would be a long list, 'the Banned'. NS is a junior high clique.

I wish Nick wouldn't have left in the WAY he did. Maybe it takes that kind of temperament to do such genius work ( I have nothing but admiration for his abilities) but one would hope not.


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## RiffWraith (Jan 18, 2010)

Ok, it's official - the choirs and other stuff in the 2nd demo are NOT real.

"...all instruments and voices in the demos are sequenced samples" -DR

http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/show ... tcount=169


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## NYC Composer (Jan 18, 2010)

"We don't wish to discuss the other samples, most of which you can't purchase"

Nyah nyah!


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 18, 2010)

Sounds like they're probably mostly TJB's private libraries. And it was done in three days, not one.


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## Ed (Jan 18, 2010)

RiffWraith @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> Ok, it's official - the choirs and other stuff in the 2nd demo are NOT real.
> 
> "...all instruments and voices in the demos are sequenced samples" -DR
> 
> http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/show ... tcount=169



Well gee what a surprise. :roll: 

Seriously, some people haven't learnt by now! I'm now going to read the thread and laugh at those who claimed I was deaf because I couldn't hear the twoof that it was live. 

:lol:

Though I'll admit I was wrong about it being in one day, I misread Doug.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 18, 2010)

> I wish Nick wouldn't have left in the WAY he did



Northernenclosure?


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## choc0thrax (Jan 18, 2010)

Phoenix is never truly gone, his spirit lives on in Batzdorf's avatar.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 18, 2010)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> > I wish Nick wouldn't have left in the WAY he did
> 
> 
> 
> Northernenclosure?



More like SOL enclosure. Gosh, I hope he feels loved now.


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## Ranietz (Jan 18, 2010)

Since we already are off topic: Didn't someone make a flash animation when things got out of hand at NS (when NP and a bunch of others got banned or left). Do anyone know if it's still online somewhere or am I dreaming this up?


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## germancomponist (Jan 18, 2010)

There is a new thread without these off topics.. .

*Hollywood Strings -- new demo*


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 18, 2010)

I'm tired of hearing comments from EW like "Nobody has ever done this before" "This is the first library to do this" "Our library can cure cancer"


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## NYC Composer (Jan 18, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> I'm tired of hearing comments from EW like "Nobody has ever done this before" "This is the first library to do this" "Our library can cure cancer"



I am SO with you on this. 

Let the world tell you how great you are- don't ( ad nauseum) tell the _world_ how great you are. God. I had to forward though minutes and minutes of the last video.
It doesn't come across as arrogance- it comes across as insecurity.

( standard disclaimer-I own scads of EW products, think they do great work blah blah, but PLEASE)


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 18, 2010)

I have to agree on that, it's really off-putting. Spoken content that is useful is explaining how things work or what the strategy or philosophy of the library is. I have to say, other similar demos that have more of a "here's what we have, hope you like it" attitude definitely score a point or two with me.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 18, 2010)

Well now that I've had a bit of experience dealing with people in LA, I've learned there is some kind of law or code, that you have to hype what your doing by about 300% no matter what.

I've heard of, talked to, and worked with producers that claim they are double plat artists, which they never even landed. It's no wonder why everyone in LA is instantly a double plat artist...


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## NYC Composer (Jan 18, 2010)

Hence my long love affair with NYC, where everyone is equally full of crap but in a charmingly direct and feral way.


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## Peter Alexander (Jan 18, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Mon Jan 18 said:
> 
> 
> > Bumblebee was performed on an unfinished library.
> ...



Well, if money is really burning a hole in your pocket, go ahead. But this library isn't shipping for 30 days, so what's the rush?

You don't HAVE to make a purchase decision right now, this very second. Because if you do, you're just going to wait until it's shipped. And what if it doesn't ship until after mid-Feb? You're going to wait some more, MINUS $1499.00.

It's going to be on pre-order special for a little bit, so just wait and listen to the next round of demos.


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## Mike Connelly (Jan 18, 2010)

I'm touched by your concern that EW releasing a demo may actually cause people to listen to it and compare it to other libraries.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Jan 18, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> I'm touched by your concern that EW releasing a demo may actually cause people to listen to it and compare it to other libraries.



rofl


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## Hannes_F (Jan 18, 2010)

Congratulations to another great strings library product that will hopefully inspire composers to rediscover the beauty of strings ... and be another stepstone towards a more "real" composing again instead of "composing for samples" - at least one can hope :D 

Also I see some appreciation for the recording techniques developed for orchestra and that is something I like. It would please me even more to see some appreciation for the actual players and instruments, too, maybe we will get to know something of that.

Somebody in this thread said it sounded like real stings ... nope I don't think so, certainly not. I sincerely hope I will never have to sit through a cinema film where this level is all that is provided because emotionally most of what I heard was still flat as cardboard (sorry :wink: ). Actually I have to revise myself because there was one nearly magic moment when Thomas began to play live though, so that is very much being achieved for samples. In any way I think it will be useful for TV work, sketches and barebone for live players - in that way very good.


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## José Herring (Jan 18, 2010)

theheresy @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> josejherring @ Mon Jan 18 said:
> 
> 
> > Has anybody read all 800 replies in this thread?
> ...



Ha! I'm on the NS banned list and so are many of the people that visit here. If you're not on it get on it quick. Being on the banned list at NS is a badge of honor. It means that you speak the truth.

Jose


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## Ed (Jan 18, 2010)

theheresy @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> I wouldn't blame others for pissing off Nick. He is quite temperamental there's a reason he was banned or self-banned from multiple forums over the years. Just check northernsounds he's on the ban list there



I hope you realise that VI-Control is like Australia. It was started and populated initially by all the banned folks at Northern Sounds. 

o=<


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## autopilot (Jan 18, 2010)

Ed @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> theheresy @ Mon Jan 18 said:
> 
> 
> > I hope you realise that VI-Control is like Australia. It was started and populated initially by all the banned folks at Northern Sounds.
> ...



As an Australian can I say ...


HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAH.


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## JFB (Jan 18, 2010)

Hannes_F @ Mon Jan 18 said:


> Somebody in this thread said it sounded like real stings ... nope I don't think so, certainly not. I sincerely hope I will never have to sit through a cinema film where this level is all that is provided because emotionally most of what I heard was still flat as cardboard (sorry :wink: ). .



I had a similar reaction, but instead of "flat as cardboard" to me it was "wall of sound". For me it was a sonic thing, not a reflection of the "epic" orchestration in the demos. The signal chain used to record this library was first rate all the way - but certainly not the quietest one in terms of signal-to-noise. Remember that in a sample library the noise generated by the signal chain is recorded into every single sample. This noise gets multiplied with every sample simultaneously played in a way that would never happen in a live orchestral recording. To my ears, it sounds nothing like a John Williams score (sonically speaking) because I could hear absolutely no acoustic space "between the notes", so to speak. Add all the other mic placements and the "euphonic" distortion of the signal chain can obscure clarity quite a bit. 

The only thing about this thread I've found absurd is comparing HS with LASS. They are two completely different animals. Most significantly, LASS does real divisi and I'm constantly amazed at how it sounds like a bunch of players in the room when I use it. HS is very fat, has some crucial articulations missing in LASS, but to me still sounds monolithic, in spite of the excellent job they did with legato transitions (I thought the smeared run was pretty damn convincing). I will definitely be buying HS to replace Symphobia as the "fattener" behind LASS.

The HS video commentary was tediously self-stroking at times. It made me admire the humility of Andrew K. that much more. LASS's real divisi, A.R.T. and randomizing scripts certainly qualify as ground-breaking...and he's one guy. And let's not forget that all this innovation was pioneered by VSL and Gigastudio, on whose blazed-trail every developer since has crossed.


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## Waywyn (Jan 19, 2010)

JFB @ Tue Jan 19 said:


> Hannes_F @ Mon Jan 18 said:
> 
> 
> > Somebody in this thread said it sounded like real stings ... nope I don't think so, certainly not. I sincerely hope I will never have to sit through a cinema film where this level is all that is provided because emotionally most of what I heard was still flat as cardboard (sorry :wink: ). .
> ...



With all kinds of respect but you wanna say, that Shawn Murphy didn't know what he was doing? I mean that guy didn't just discover how a 4 track tape recorder works??

Seriously and as far as I know EVERY huge production is being run through a huge console with compressors, eq's and noise ... now please don't tell me that the noise sums up more drastically if we hear like maximum 10 string tracks playing simultaneously but on the other hand have rock/pop or whatever productions where 100 to 200 tracks are being played back simultaneously.


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## germancomponist (Jan 19, 2010)

JFB @ Tue Jan 19 said:


> ..... Remember that in a sample library the noise generated by the signal chain is recorded into every single sample. This noise gets multiplied with every sample simultaneously played in a way that would never happen in a live orchestral recording....



Oops, an example: 
When you play 100 notes (tracks) at the same time you have to adjust the volume from all the single notes (tracks) to get not more than 0 dB. Yes, no? 

The relationship between the desired (sound) and the undesired (bad noice) will always be the same.


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## noiseboyuk (Jan 19, 2010)

josejherring @ Tue Jan 19 said:


> Ha! I'm on the NS banned list and so are many of the people that visit here. If you're not on it get on it quick. Being on the banned list at NS is a badge of honor. It means that you speak the truth.
> 
> Jose



Yay, I too have my badge and wear it with pride! I was banned for typing the following dangerously subversive word... (those of a sensitive disposition should look away)...

Pettinhouse.

Anyone left with a Northern Sounds logon... try it! Go on, I dare you!!!

Pettinhouse.

Ha ha ha! I can type it here and nothing bad happens! Look!

Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse, Pettinhouse

Northern Sounds is a ridiculous bloody place.

Thanks VI Control, I needed that...


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## JFB (Jan 19, 2010)

> With all kinds of respect but you wanna say, that Shawn Murphy didn't know what he was doing? I mean that guy didn't just discover how a 4 track tape recorder works??



Uhm...no. That is most certainly not what I want to say and thanks for the respect. Sorry if that's how it came across. Although rumor has it that he just recently discovered how an _8 track_ recorder works. 



> Seriously and as far as I know EVERY huge production is being run through a huge console with compressors, eq's and noise ... now please don't tell me that the noise sums up more drastically if we hear like maximum 10 string tracks playing simultaneously but on the other hand have rock/pop or whatever productions where 100 to 200 tracks are being played back simultaneously.



I'm only referring to the difference between the recording/playback of individual samples versus a live recording. Here's the difference as I hear it. Take a simple "C" chord comprised of the notes C2, C3, G3, C4, and E4. When live string section plays it, it's just those 5 notes + the signal chain and what ever noise, audible or not, is introduced. 

Live strings performance of chord: 
C2, C3, G3, C4, and E4 + signal chain noise

Sampled strings performance of chord:
E4 sample + signal chain noise in sample
C4 sample + signal chain noise in sample
G3 sample + signal chain noise in sample
C3 sample + signal chain noise in sample
C2 sample + signal chain noise in sample

In orchestral recording the mics are several feet away from the source, which requires a lot more gain applied at the mic pre than a pop/rock record where the mic is often only inches from the source. Now if you were to have 100 to 200 tracks of "Decca Tree" recorded orchestral tracks being played back simultaneously, the signal chain noise could very well veil the loud bits and be clearly audible in the quiet bits, which is what is more-or-less going on when playing back 100 to 200 sample voices simultaneously.

Anyway, that's what it sounds like to me.


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## Waywyn (Jan 19, 2010)

JFB @ Tue Jan 19 said:


> > With all kinds of respect but you wanna say, that Shawn Murphy didn't know what he was doing? I mean that guy didn't just discover how a 4 track tape recorder works??
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey JFB,

yes, I definitely dig and know what you were trying to say, but:

What I am trying to say, there has been so much discussion about layering sound etc. ... it was the same with Platinum orchestra. If you layer close, far and surround mics, and play two notes with a trombone sus patch, you have 8 trombones going on. Even though you are playing at a very subtle volume, I never had the feeling that something started to sound noisy, weird or anything like it, since you would - as in this example - not only having 8 trombones (because of two notes) playing, but actually 24 trombones PLUS the reverb recording noise of all


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## Nick Phoenix (Jan 19, 2010)

The noise stacking phenomenon is a very real problem. We noise reduced just enough in EWQLSO to reduce this without ruining the sound. It worked out pretty well, but not perfect. Samples taken in a large hall will always be noisy. In HS, we made a huge effort to get the noise floor down very low before we recorded, so we would have to use very little noise reduction. This worked out really well and is the reason that the air has not been stripped from the samples. Most of the samples have no noise reduction at all and the noise floor is low.


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## Vision (Jan 19, 2010)

Nick?!? :D 

Welcome back. :wink:


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## JFB (Jan 19, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Tue Jan 19 said:


> The noise stacking phenomenon is a very real problem. We noise reduced just enough in EWQLSO to reduce this without ruining the sound. It worked out pretty well, but not perfect. Samples taken in a large hall will always be noisy. In HS, we made a huge effort to get the noise floor down very low before we recorded, so we would have to use very little noise reduction. This worked out really well and is the reason that the air has not been stripped from the samples. Most of the samples have no noise reduction at all and the noise floor is low.



Thanks for that info, Nick.


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## germancomponist (Jan 19, 2010)

JFB @ Tue Jan 19 said:


> > With all kinds of respect but you wanna say, that Shawn Murphy didn't know what he was doing? I mean that guy didn't just discover how a 4 track tape recorder works??
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So do you think it is wrong what I wrote one post before your latest?


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## JFB (Jan 19, 2010)

germancomponist @ Tue Jan 19 said:


> JFB @ Tue Jan 19 said:
> 
> 
> > > With all kinds of respect but you wanna say, that Shawn Murphy didn't know what he was doing? I mean that guy didn't just discover how a 4 track tape recorder works??
> ...



No, you're correct, but it's a different issue. What you're referring to is reducing your playback levels so as not to exceed the maximum headroom of your Sampler and/or DAW and getting a hideous crackling. 

What I was referring to was the accumulated noise (that very quiet hiss) from the microphones, preamps and other factors in a large acoustic environment that gets recorded into every sample and can obscure the sound as you start stacking up voices. But this has no impact on the overall volume output of the samples.

I apologize for not addressing your earlier post. :oops:


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