# Laptop Purchase: MacBook 16" vs Dell XPS vs ?



## JyTy (Oct 22, 2020)

Hi fellow composers, I really hope everyone is safe and OK in those turbulent times 🙏

I need to hear a couple of thoughts from you about a laptop purchase. I have a 2012 Macbook Pro that is currently living its last breaths and bearly hanging with bigger projects so after more than 8 years there is a time for an upgrade! btw it needs to be a laptop - no other option!

OSX is a really good operating system for me as I also do a lot of programming on it and some of the workflows around that are superb... but with Apple constantly slowly ramping up their prices I'm not so sure I can justify a purchase of a new MacBook.

*I'm a bit torn between a new MacBook Pro 16" and a fully stacked Dell XPS 17".* On the Dell part, you get almost twice everything for the same price, twice the RAM, twice the SSD, slightly bigger monitor... and the reviews are raving. On the other side, everybody is suggesting not to buy a MacBook in the next year or two until the transition to the new processors goes through, but I have a feeling that it will be years until everything will be stable for music production?

*I also have a desktop PC 2x 6 core + 128GB of ram that I use as a Vepro slave.* So RAM is not that much of a factor but 32GB is something I'm aiming towards. This I intend to keep with the new laptop setup as well...

Maybe I'm just reluctant to change to Windows and potentially switch to Cubase, starting to learning and setting up a lot of things from scratch. I'm used to OSX, works great with an iPhone, I'm really a power user with the laptop running 12h a day most of the time and MacBook stood that up perfectly for all of those years... so I'm really happy from that side of things.

What are your thoughts? Anybody here working on a high-end laptop, what are the benefits of Apple vs PC or vise versa from your side?

Any advice very much appreciated and I'm very thankful in advance as this is an investment for at least 8 years from my side 

Stay safe!


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## ptram (Oct 22, 2020)

Not suggesting anything, but keep in mind that the new Mac OS can be installed in MacBooks starting from 2013. Support for intel-based Macs should therefore continue for a long time. And with a current Mac you get a Mac that is also fully compatible with the Windows world.

Paolo


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## rnieto (Oct 22, 2020)

Hey @JyTy ,

I just purchased a MacBook Pro 16" to replace my venerable MacPro tower from 2010, and I'm extremely happy with it. I was a bit worried about the new ARM processors, too. I just couldn't wait a year until the dust finally settles.

In my particular case, I have to admit I have never owned a Windows PC, so it's purely a matter of personal taste. I did work on Windows for almost 10 years at a videogame company, but I've only owned Macs (about 17 or 18 of them in total) since my first computer in 1993.

The price difference is definitely a huge factor for deciding to go with a Windows PC, and of course I know that WinPCs are just as capable as Macs. It's just that, to me, working on one was always kind of like walking around with a pebble in my shoe—it wasn't painful, but it definitely felt uncomfortable.

I went with the 8-core i9 model, 64GB of RAM and a 2TB internal SSD. It runs my 140-track templates without issues and I know that it will do what I need it to do for many years. I would have gone with a 10-core i9 iMac, but I need the portability.

Good luck!


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## JyTy (Oct 22, 2020)

rnieto said:


> Hey @JyTy ,
> 
> I just purchased a MacBook Pro 16" to replace my venerable MacPro tower from 2010, and I'm extremely happy with it. I was a bit worried about the new ARM processors, too. I just couldn't wait a year until the dust finally settles.
> 
> ...



Thnx for this reply! Yeah, I'm leaning towards the same thing, but a 1TB + 32GB option as I still tend to use it the new laptop with my Vepro slave. So I will not miss the extra ram and space (+ to be honest for the money that would be spent to add that much more I can have one more slave with at least 128GB of RAM)... but I know exactly what you mean with ways of working on Apple vs Win world


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## MrCambiata (Oct 22, 2020)

I bought the new XPS 17 two months ago and I'm very happy with it. One thing was very important to me - that it will not be loud and I wasn't disappointed in that regard. I can barely hear the fans most of the time. 
The trackpad is a little loose, I called dell and they offered me another discount if I kept it and it's really not a big issue anyway.
It's a powerful machine, I'm using VSL Synchron Strings pro, CSB and OT libraries without a problem. I was also considering a Macbook pro but it was twice the price. I do believe that Apple products are very reliable and am willing to pay more but the difference in price was just too big. The fact that Apple is porting their products to ARM also played a role in my decision but it wasn't the main reason, as Intel Macs will get updates in the forthcoming future.


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## Nate Johnson (Oct 22, 2020)

I think you'll have a better time dealing with Apple's shortcomings vs dealing with Windows' shortcomings. 

I've been debating the same choice and this is the conclusion I keep coming to.


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## thevisi0nary (Oct 22, 2020)

Because you are someone who already uses MacOS I would absolutely stick with that. The only incentive to go with the Xps would be to save money, and I don't think readapting your workflow for that is worth it. 

Here are some pros and cons for each with as little bias as possible (I use windows),

XPS:
+: Expandability. Really only matters if you want to save money upfront, similar specs between the two only save you a few hundred dollars overall in the long run.
+: Slightly more powerful cpu in addition to better cooling system, and gets better benchmarks. (Not by leaps and bounds).
+: The xps MAY have a better thermal experience in terms of fan noise.
+: If you like to manhandle and customize your OS like me, windows gives you more options to do that. 
+/-: Greater screen fidelity if that matters to you. (Color gamut coverage / higher contrast). It is gorgeous, But you need to tweak it to look normal. It has high ARGB coverage and thus will look oversaturated out of the box. Windows color profile management also sucks compared to OSX.

-: Noticeably bulkier and heavier.
-: Must be plugged in to get the upper power of the cpu, power limits are set when on battery power.
-: May have dpc latency issues. I heard this was improved since the last iteration of the XPS line, but you could still have issues.
-: Less battery life.
-: The available resolutions are very limiting for a laptop, 1080p or 4k. 4k is overkill and annihilates laptop battery life. 

Macbook Pro:
+++: Core audio drivers. This is huge for me on a laptop, because there are times when I would like to use a laptop without an interface. The alternatives to this on windows pale in comparison.
+: Perfect screen resolution for a laptop.
+: Better battery life.
+: You already are comfortable and familiar with OSX.
+: Synergy with ios, as well as sidecar. If you get ipad down the road you can use it as a secondary monitor with zero hassle. 
+: Lighter weight and slimmer. 
+: Standard USB C charging. 

-: There are many reports of issues with fan noise and overheating. Not all of them are like this, but it is not rare at all and the fan noise is very loud.
-: Potential problems with the T2 chip.
-: No wifi 6 (if this matters to you).
-: No expandability, thus higher initial cost and you are locked in with whatever specs you get. 
-: Eminent transition to arm. I don't think this really matters though. 

If I were you, I would go with the Macbook.


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## JyTy (Oct 22, 2020)

thevisi0nary said:


> Because you are someone who already uses MacOS I would absolutely stick with that. The only incentive to go with the Xps would be to save money, and I don't think readapting your workflow for that is worth it.
> 
> Here are some pros and cons for each with as little bias as possible (I use windows),
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for this great reply! Yes, I'm kinda thinking the same way... The only thing that really bothers me is this ARM transition. Don't think it is so neglectable. After a year or two, current MacBooks will become "old" tech with limited support, as soon as ARMs roll out... this will definitely decrease its value a lot Don't really care about that as I'm making this investment for a long run and when I'm done with it it will not be worth much anyway :D But what would really piss me off is that after a year of my purchase a new version (for the same price) will come out that will be significantly better/more performant because of the new chips :D

But yes I guess I'll go with the MacBook and stop following Apple news for the next 8 years of my life 😂


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## nglez (Oct 23, 2020)

I understand the feeling, but I think it's gonna take a while until the ARM chip will fully take over. I can see them releasing something like a Mac book air first and then over the years change their line up. Keep in mind that they also released the Mac Pro based on Intel. By the time ARM is fully ready for the Pro market you might need a new laptop anyways...


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## Fab (Oct 23, 2020)

If you use logic then get a mac, that is the only reason I can think of.


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 26, 2020)

I was recently in the same boat, this being before the recent launch of the 16" macbook pro.

There was no way I was prepared to spend the over £ 3.5k on a laptop that had an inherent keyboard fault and thermal issues, so I kept hanging on for the new Macbook Pro that was coming. It seemed to keep getting delayed and delayed, and I really needed to replace the old macbook pro....

In the end I bought a PC laptop, despite both my desktop systems being Macs. (I am a cubase user) 

I wanted something stylish and compact that I could hawk about with me, but also somehting powerful. In the end I bought a Razer Blade 15" 2019 2070 RTX Advanced from ebay for £ 1400. It was new and still sealed in the box. 

I bought 64gb RAM from Cucial, and got a 2tb Sabrent NVME drive from Amazon for £ 173.00 on a flash sale.

So for £ 2k I had an i7 6 core with 2tb SSD and 64Gb Ram - which i think is terrific bang for buck.

It also has a TB3 port so I can use my UAD interface and plugins with it too (needed a TB2-TB3 adapter though).

So, my thoughts. Yes I do miss OSX, but nowhere near as much as I thought I would. Windows 10 is pretty solid, and whilst it takes a bit of getting used to, and I needed to unistall some of the bloat, it's a great bit if kit. Cubase flies on it.

It's a quality bit of kit, and feels nice to use. The only real negative is the poor battery life, but that is not an issue for me, as if I'm on a plane or train etc, I'll be working in Staffpad whose portability can't be beaten.

So down the line a bit, I still miss OSX - but Windows 10 is a pretty decent alternative, one I can live with, even if I dont exactly love it. 

And my timing seems to good on this too. Because by the time I'm moving on from the Razer, the Apple silicon Macbook Pro's will be on their second iteration (at least). So if they live up to their promise, there's a good chance I'll go back to mac laptop - though not at any price.

So don't be afraid of Windows 10. You might not love it, but you will be able to live with it. Becuase I agree with the person who said that once the Apple silicon starts shipping, the Intel CPU macs will get old real fast.....


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## gsilbers (Oct 26, 2020)

JyTy said:


> Hi fellow composers, I really hope everyone is safe and OK in those turbulent times 🙏
> 
> I need to hear a couple of thoughts from you about a laptop purchase. I have a 2012 Macbook Pro that is currently living its last breaths and bearly hanging with bigger projects so after more than 8 years there is a time for an upgrade! btw it needs to be a laptop - no other option!
> 
> ...





I posted elsewhere about this so ill keep it short.


I have the same 2012. Had the same issue than you and bought the macbook pro 16 with 64gb ram and 2tb ssd.

Once i got it i noticed somehting almost inmediatly; heat and fan noise.

Went online and tried EVERY FUKIN TIP/TRICK and it didnt work.

Sent to apple for a fix. They said it was repaired but didnt see they did anything ok.

Turns out, macbook pro have been having an issue with intel cpu and graphics just heating up very fast. And not by loading my 100 track template but instead, it was just a few web browsers, youtube video, mail and othe light apps. After a few minutes the fans ramped up.
I mean, that 2012 macbook you have... well, I was able to load twice as many light apps and have it run about 9 times longer before the fans ramp up.

So i sold it and bought a macmini. will wait for the ARM cou MacBooks.
The benchmarks from developers who got advance ARM macs seem to make it comparable to the ipad pro, which the ipad pro and macbook (outside the i9s) are similar. 
Therefore i have good hopes for the new macbook lineup. Not so much for universal binary and my 1000 plugins. 


anywasy I was so pissed i even made a video lol. 
a nausea invoking video


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## Fab (Oct 26, 2020)

@gsilbers I know your pain.


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## rgames (Oct 26, 2020)

One other distinction between Mac and PC is the amount of internal storage. I haven't looked at it in a couple years but when I bought my laptop a couple years ago I could get a lot more internal storage in a PC laptop. My laptop has 6 TB of internal storage and it's not much larger than a Macbook. From a practical standpoint, the size difference doesn't matter.

If you get a "super portable" Macbook then have to attach a bunch of external drives, it's not really so portable, is it? A PC with everything internal is vastly more portable than a Macbook with several external drives. Again, I'm not up-to-speed with today's offerings so maybe Macs can cram in just as much storage as PC laptops these days.

Also, if you do orchestral work I'd definitely go with 64 GB RAM. It's very do-able in laptops these days and totally worth it. If you're not doing orchestral work then 32 GB is perfectly fine.

rgames


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## gsilbers (Oct 26, 2020)

rgames said:


> One other distinction between Mac and PC is the amount of internal storage. I haven't looked at it in a couple years but when I bought my laptop a couple years ago I could get a lot more internal storage in a PC laptop. My laptop has 6 TB of internal storage and it's not much larger than a Macbook. From a practical standpoint, the size difference doesn't matter.
> 
> If you get a "super portable" Macbook then have to attach a bunch of external drives, it's not really so portable, is it? A PC with everything internal is vastly more portable than a Macbook with several external drives. Again, I'm not up-to-speed with today's offerings so maybe Macs can cram in just as much storage as PC laptops these days.
> 
> ...



Storage and ram is where Apple charges the most and those are not upgradable.

I got an external ssd enclosure and a 5820 micron 8tb ssd drive for $760.

I now use it w my Mac mini but yeah,
Portable is not really that portable like many ads for audio gear makes us believe. Midi keyboard, usb hub, external monitor, audio interface, external storage with ac plug...


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## Dracarys (Oct 26, 2020)

I have the MSI GS66 6 core, no issues here using onboard realtek drivers for MIDI, performing as good as my RME soundcard. Two internal 2tb NVMe ssds, 64gb ram.

I had a razerblade 15 with a 8759h a couple years ago, and the realtek drivers performed even better.

If you're comfortable with Mac and your sessions aren't that big/demanding, just get a Macbook Pro. But you'll be limited to one internal drive and be paying an unjustified price.


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## JyTy (Oct 27, 2020)

Thank you very much! A lot of good feedback here! 🙏

I'm still leaning towards a MacBook 16" but I will sleep on it for a bit before I pull the plug... and as mentioned in terms of RAM I'm not going that high, I think 32GB will do ... just to have something portable for sketching... Will still power my template with a slave 128GM RAM PC and Vepro7 connected to my mac.


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## gsilbers (Oct 27, 2020)

JyTy said:


> Thank you very much! A lot of good feedback here! 🙏
> 
> I'm still leaning towards a MacBook 16" but I will sleep on it for a bit before I pull the plug... and as mentioned in terms of RAM I'm not going that high, I think 32GB will do ... just to have something portable for sketching... Will still power my template with a slave 128GM RAM PC and Vepro7 connected to my mac.



the new mac arm macbooks are around the corner. (mid november). if that helps to wait just a tiny bit.


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## rpaillot (Oct 27, 2020)

Bought a MBP 16'' mostly for the holidays work outside home studio. Must say that apart from the fan noise (which are not a problem as I work with headphones), this is the best laptop I ever had. I can load the most demanding cubase session, with 100 kontakt instances, 40 cinematic room reverbs. Well, not a glitch. It's astoundingly powerful for a laptop that small and thin.
Not surprising the fans are ramping up and making a lot of noise..

This is mostly a "holiday" music computer, thats why I dont care about the fan noise. But i've tried a few tricks that actually really helped reducing fan noises if it really bothers you.
TG Pro and modifying fan profile.. yeah it's a bit of a pain having to modify fan profile for such an expensive laptop, but to me the beast is so powerful that I can easily forgive this problem.
64 gb of ram, and a CPU that can hits up to 7000 in multicore test with Geekbench...
Almost as powerful as this






Mac Pro "Eight Core" 3.5 (2019 - Rack) Specs (2019, BTO/CTO*, MacPro7,1, A2304, 3413): EveryMac.com


Technical specifications for the Mac Pro "Eight Core" 3.5 (2019 - Rack). Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.




everymac.com





Also use it to work during editing phase or mixing phase in recording studios. I just need a small back bag. No additional hard disks (I've got 4tb which's more than enough, I just put the libraries I really use and it takes only 3 tb of disk space)
It's a joy to go somewhere and still be able to load very demanding cubase sessions that I created on the regular computer at home.


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## JyTy (Oct 28, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> the new mac arm macbooks are around the corner. (mid november). if that helps to wait just a tiny bit.


Are you sure? I think they’ll start with air and others before ramping up to pros. I’m more thinking about November next year...


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## gsilbers (Oct 28, 2020)

JyTy said:


> Are you sure? I think they’ll start with air and others before ramping up to pros. I’m more thinking about November next year...



rumors so far. i do think the macbook air will be the first as those would be more akin to ipads. 
but who knows. 
apple really needs to sell/advertise these new so developers can start updating their apps to UB2. 
There was some info stating that apple will take 2 years for this transition for all macs. 
itll be interesting how they handle it in their store with having both ARM and intel macs and poeple still buying mac intels when its clearly those are going away. (but will support it until big sur).


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## JyTy (Oct 28, 2020)

They will support intel macs for years, I’m not worried about that. But their price will fall drastically over the years the more arm will be a thing...


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## gsilbers (Oct 29, 2020)

JyTy said:


> They will support intel macs for years, I’m not worried about that. But their price will fall drastically over the years the more arm will be a thing...



true. i think for more higher end mac it might be an issue. im sure theyll support it for a while but its like buying a Mac pro G5 when intels where announced.

for macbook, if the prices fall considerably, maybe ill get a 2017/18 normal macbook.
but depends on what the new arm has to offer and even if any plugin companies will be ready.
catalina was such a mess on the audio side, im not confident on big sur arm version at all.


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## gsilbers (Nov 2, 2020)

A new event has been announced. Nov 10.
They show the new Apple silicon macs.
Let’s see how it goes


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## C.Franzén (Nov 2, 2020)

I have a 2019 Macbook Pro that cost me about $4000, and it is amazing what it can do; big orchestral sessions, very plugin / fx heavy mixes, and it takes it all in stride. I highly recommend it


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## JyTy (Nov 2, 2020)

C.Franzén said:


> I have a 2019 Macbook Pro that cost me about $4000, and it is amazing what it can do; big orchestral sessions, very plugin / fx heavy mixes, and it takes it all in stride. I highly recommend it


Sounds great! I'll wait till next week to see what will be announced if not I'll just get the current 16" pro.


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 3, 2020)

I'm very much looking forward to seeing the first Apple Silicon machines. Next year is probably when I'll next look at upgrading, so my timing looks pretty good. 

I defected to a PC Laptop in view of all the issues with the Macbook Pro (Keyboard and Thermal issues) but by 2021 I'll be about ready to move back.

I hear that there is a rumor there is going to be a smaller Mac Pro on the Macrumors forum........

I can't wait to see what they get out of their new chips perfromance wise....I'll be the first Apple event I've bothered to watch in a long, long time.....


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## thevisi0nary (Nov 3, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> for £ 2k I had an i7 6 core with 2tb SSD and 64Gb Ram - which i think is terrific bang for buck.



Just asking out of curiosity. Are you actually running sessions on the laptop that reach the 64gb ram range? I don’t have any experience with running large projects on a laptop, but I always imagined that cpu and thermal limitations would come into play long before a session got big enough to meaningfully use 64gb.


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