# Synchron Bösendorfer 280VC (Stage B)



## Ben (Feb 2, 2021)

Hi everyone!

Today I'm happy yo announce our newest entry in the Synchron Piano Series: The Synchron Bösendorfer 280VC, recorded in Stage B in our Synchron Stage Vienna (the same room as for the Synchron Blüthner 1895 and Synchron Bösendorfer Upright).




(More videos to come, so make sure to subscribe!)


The Bösendorfer 280VC is a true all-rounder, with distinct, clear and colorful sound. A huge dynamic range and our advanced piano sampling technology combined with the experience we gained from sampling the other Synchron pianos will make this piano come to live as soon as you start playing.
Recorded with 6 microphone positions and love for every detail of this piano, packed with 2x 6 main presets + 21 additional FX plugins.
You can check out the sound of each mic separately here.
Preset comparison: here. All audio demos: here.

Get your license
- Standard: € 215 (regular: €285)
- Full: € 345 (regular: €445)

And don't forget to update the Synchron Piano Player!




Best, Ben


----------



## chapbot (Feb 2, 2021)

Well, well. I just listened (did you all redesign your website? I seem to be able to find things much easier now!) and this sounds fantastic. I'm gonna get it. Close and clean - just how I love my pianos!


----------



## JonS (Feb 2, 2021)

Ben said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> Today I'm happy yo announce our newest entry in the Synchron Piano Series: The Synchron Bösendorfer 280VC, recorded in Stage B in our Synchron Stage Vienna (the same room as for the Synchron Blüthner 1895 and Synchron Bösendorfer Upright).
> 
> ...



Sounds gorgeous. Another must buy!!


----------



## yellow_lupine (Feb 2, 2021)

Amazing! Will there be demo licenses for that before the promotional price expires?


----------



## CGR (Feb 2, 2021)

Ben said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> Today I'm happy yo announce our newest entry in the Synchron Piano Series: The Synchron Bösendorfer 280VC, recorded in Stage B in our Synchron Stage Vienna (the same room as for the Synchron Blüthner 1895 and Synchron Bösendorfer Upright).
> 
> ...



Me: _"OK - New Year's Resolution: I have more than enough sampled pianos. I'm done now . . ."_

VSL: *"Well how about THIS then?"*

Me: _" . . . but then again . . . "_


----------



## Gamma1734 (Feb 2, 2021)

My contribution as far as preset demonstration is concerned:

Feel free to click around


----------



## jamwerks (Feb 2, 2021)

Sounds awesome!


----------



## Evans (Feb 2, 2021)

Gamma1734 said:


> My contribution as far as preset demonstration is concerned:
> 
> Feel free to click around



Ah, crap.


----------



## Gamma1734 (Feb 2, 2021)

Evans said:


> Ah, crap.


Why so?


----------



## Evans (Feb 2, 2021)

Gamma1734 said:


> Why so?


Because I might have to buy it.


----------



## Virtuoso (Feb 2, 2021)

Likewise. @Gamma1734 you just cost me $350!!


----------



## Gamma1734 (Feb 2, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> Likewise. @Gamma1734 you just cost me $350!!


Trust me, it's worth it


----------



## Robert_G (Feb 2, 2021)

Nobody touches you guys with pianos. No one. I can't buy MSS and a new VSL piano in the same month. The wife will kill me.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 2, 2021)

I haven't listened to the VSL demos yet, but will do so now. I wanted to first check out the product page at the vendor's site:









Klangerlebnis purer Emotion - der Bösendorfer 280VC


Ein Klang klar wie ein Diamant und doch verspielt wie das Funkeln im Licht. Atemberaubende Dynamik, schier unbegrenzte Klangfarben und strahlende Brillanz: ein fesselndes Klangerlebnis purer Emotion.




www.boesendorfer.com





Andras Schif is my favourite concert pianist who is still alive, so his endorsement and his video interview and playing excerpt, already have me sold that this might be the best piano yet, for solo work at least, where the different character of each register is so important.

In fact, this model reminds me a bit of my lifelong preferred brand, Mason & Hamlin.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 2, 2021)

It really has a unique voice all its own, even though there are influences from other pianos in there, including Erard. There are no jazz demos, but once I have installed it, I will give it a try in that context as well. I'm very impressed also by how good Keith Emerson's Tarkus excerpt sounds as an all-acoustic arrangement on this piano.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 2, 2021)

Doesn't this sound too bright and brittle in the upper register to anyone? Or is this piano not warm at all? Don't mean this in a bad way, but not what I expected.


----------



## Robert_G (Feb 2, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Doesn't this sound too bright and brittle in the upper register to anyone? Or is this piano not warm at all? Don't mean this in a bad way, but not what I expected.


There aren't a lot of pianos that can do that sort of thing in the upper registers. That's one of the reasons I like it as much as I do.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 2, 2021)

Robert_G said:


> There aren't a lot of pianos that can do that sort of thing in the upper registers. That's one of the reasons I like it as much as I do.


Sounds like the velocity of the controller is off. Can’t quite put my finger on it but the mid highs sound thin. Low end is beautiful. Just sounds like I’d have my ear to the soundboard. Could just be his mic choices.


----------



## muziksculp (Feb 2, 2021)

Another Piano  ? 

No Thanks.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 2, 2021)

We all have different ears and preferences. My older brother prefers Yamahas over any other brand, yet I find all three of their distinct series to share a common trait that to me sounds compressed and lacking dynamics compared to other brands. I no longer even like them for rock music.

When listening to audio of the actual instrument at the vendor's site, I hear no issues in any of the registers. In the VSL sample library demos, many of the demos feel a bit boomy in places, to my ears at least. I am fairly confident it's just a matter of personal preference and that my own custom mic mixes will clear this up, just as happened when I customized the other entries in the Synchron series.

So to your point, no I don't find it bright at all. Perhaps I'll even want to ADD some brightness to it. But I'm mostly a bassist, and like many bassists, I am very sensitive to the lower register, and any competition and mud in that frequency range, and hold a preference for trimming vs. boosting the audio content in the bass register so that things stand out more and are articulate.

I haven't had a chance to buy it yet -- I'm busy with non-stop job interviews now that I've driven cross country again to return to my permanent residence in California. I am hoping to have time and energy to do that tomorrow; right now my body thinks it's 1230am so I'm calling it a night. When I do get ahold of the library, I'll try to see how it fits into a jazz context, and may post a mix preset.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 2, 2021)

Ok...just watched the actual Bosendorfer 280VC video about the making of it, and it sounds pretty damn close to VSL's library...and it is also bright in the video...Not that it's a bad piano, just not my taste, but as far as sound, VSL comes ultra close now that I hear it. I think it truly comes down to the mics in this case.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 3, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> It really has a unique voice all its own, even though there are influences from other pianos in there, including Erard. There are no jazz demos, but once I have installed it, I will give it a try in that context as well. I'm very impressed also by how good Keith Emerson's Tarkus excerpt sounds as an all-acoustic arrangement on this piano.



There is a little jazz ballad, arrangement of Misty part of the video. Anything you'd like in particular?


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 3, 2021)

Oh, I didn't watch the video (I'm not a fan of that medium in general). Thanks for letting me know. I'll try to skim it late tonight.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 3, 2021)

BTW, if anyone would like to hear a particular piece with a particular mic setting, I can try and make it happen.

​


----------



## yellow_lupine (Feb 3, 2021)

Listening carefully at the audio demos I have to say I don't like the sound of this piano.
The highs are very annoying to me: too bright over the other registers and a little thin.
The lowers instead are quite muddy (Chopin ballade no. 2), I found it quite difficult to distinguish the notes.

@Ben
Hello Ben,
now you have not one, nor two but three Bösendorfer sampled pianos available. Could you please record a different brand for the next one? I'd very much like to listen to a VSL sampled Fazioli 308, one of the best pianos in the world.
Many thanks


----------



## jamwerks (Feb 3, 2021)

The way it handles shorts sounds much more realistic than anything else I've heard.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Feb 3, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> BTW, if anyone would like to hear a particular piece with a particular mic setting, I can try and make it happen.
> 
> ​


It's too late..... you had me at Misty.....

Seriously though, I think my Synchron Steinway D274 is getting jealous of my new mistress.

I took a day off and stayed at home to get some paperwork done, but then I noticed the download had finished and......

I think I''l have to do the paperwork this weekend......


----------



## PaulieDC (Feb 3, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> BTW, if anyone would like to hear a particular piece with a particular mic setting, I can try and make it happen.
> 
> ​


That's very kind! I do like the tube and ribbon mics in the Steinway and first Bsoendorfer... Something like Gershwin's 2nd Prelude would be much appreciated, to hear the library in a more subtle approach, as well as hearing the timbre in the the octaves and short runs in that all-important c5-c7 range. And if you wanted to throw in a ragtime piece like Magnetic Rag or Ragtime Dance, there'd be no arguments from this side. 

Thank you!


----------



## PaulieDC (Feb 3, 2021)

Evans said:


> Because I might have to buy it.


I knew that's what you meant.


----------



## Ben (Feb 3, 2021)

yellow_lupine said:


> Hello Ben,
> now you have not one, nor two but three Bösendorfer sampled pianos available. Could you please record a different brand for the next one? I'd very much like to listen to a VSL sampled Fazioli 308, one of the best pianos in the world.
> Many thanks


Hi! I'm not deciding which piano gets sampled next, but I know that our team also takes notes on the feedback and it is considered. So I can't say it will happen, but I'm also not saying that it's not going to happen (and especially no answers regarding when); just that we listen and consider this kind of feedback 

Sampling a piano with such detail as we do takes weeks, and sometimes months - even with our advanced custom made piano-sampling robot!


----------



## Ben (Feb 3, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> The way it handles shorts sounds much more realistic than anything else I've heard.


We also improved the algorithms in the code as well, so it should also improve the short repetitions for the other pianos as well. This combined with the destinct characteristics of this piano + Stage B acoustics result in this awesome shorts sound.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 3, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> That's very kind! I do like the tube and ribbon mics in the Steinway and first Bsoendorfer... Something like Gershwin's 2nd Prelude would be much appreciated, to hear the library in a more subtle approach, as well as hearing the timbre in the the octaves and short runs in that all-important c5-c7 range. And if you wanted to throw in a ragtime piece like Magnetic Rag or Ragtime Dance, there'd be no arguments from this side.
> 
> Thank you!



Should be fine. Although tomorrow I'm getting a coronarography which will put my left hand out of business for a few days, but after that will do it.


----------



## jamwerks (Feb 3, 2021)

Yeah great acoustics in that space. I'm surprised for a 75 square meter room! Buy the way, I'd love to get that score of the arrangement of Misty that Guy played. No sign of it on Google looking for the name of the arranger.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 3, 2021)

jamwerks said:


> Yeah great acoustics in that space. I'm surprised for a 75 square meter room! Buy the way, I'd love to get that score of the arrangement of Misty that Guy played. No sign of it on Google looking for the name of the arranger.


Try: 김대윤 on youtube. Yes, he makes lovely jazz arrangements.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Feb 3, 2021)

yellow_lupine said:


> Listening carefully at the audio demos I have to say I don't like the sound of this piano.
> The highs are very annoying to me: too bright over the other registers and a little thin.
> The lowers instead are quite muddy (Chopin ballade no. 2), I found it quite difficult to distinguish the notes.
> 
> ...




I'd love to see VSL take on a middle of the road baby grand, and perhaps a beaten up old upright too...


----------



## feck (Feb 3, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> There is a little jazz ballad, arrangement of Misty part of the video. Anything you'd like in particular?


Guy, I just wanna say that you are a monster player. Your demos are always excellent, and I very much like how you included some modern musical examples for the VC. I’m hoping VSL continues expanding their piano sets to include more modern-production style pianos like the VC.


----------



## keepitsimple (Feb 3, 2021)

Will be uploading a nice improv video of the new Bosy soon. I'll post it here.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 3, 2021)

feck said:


> Guy, I just wanna say that you are a monster player. Your demos are always excellent, and I very much like how you included some modern musical examples for the VC. I’m hoping VSL continues expanding their piano sets to include more modern-production style pianos like the VC.



I get by with what I play, but monster pianist, I wish. Agree about the addition of more modern works. My son made me discover Firth of Fifth by Tony Banks (Genesis), I thought it was a cool piece to incorporate. At the beginning, I use to tell him, what was that piece you showed me the other day? "Circle of Fifth"?


----------



## PaulieDC (Feb 3, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> Should be fine. Although tomorrow I'm getting a coronarography which will put my left hand out of business for a few days, but after that will do it.


Oh my, well we ALL sure hope that goes well and finds nothing.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 3, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Oh my, well we ALL sure hope that goes well and finds nothing.


It's for an upcoming heart surgery. But will be fine after. Thanks for the concern.


----------



## Gamma1734 (Feb 3, 2021)

I collected my thoughts on the instrument and want to share them, I hope it is some kind of useful for people. (also posted this on "piano world" if some of you are there too)

First of all, I am quite neutral when approaching new vst plugins, because I try
to rate the feeling how it behaves and sounds without looking too much at a price
or company etc. So I started to play without big expectations.
The first thing I noticed is, how different it behaves to the other Synchron pianos. I think
the main reason is the different room this was recorded in, the Stage B. I was more reminded of the Blüthner, but there are many differences.
The sound is generally more confined, in a positive way, in such a way that you have incredible dynamic control. The whole soundscape is "closer" to you, which makes it easier to play in general.
I even have
no grand action here (only upright) but I totally can play melodies in pp or rachmaninov style chords in ff. I analyse my midi and noticed melodic lines played at around 15-20/127 midi value. I think I never had that with any other instrument!
The range is
maybe not as big as with the Steinway D "per se", but it *feels* much more controllable, it just makes so much fun to play on it. They really nailed the velocity mapping with this one. I can just leave the defaults and it's already perfect.
The quality of the samples it extremely high. I can't hear any noise floor adding up, but at the same time the whole sound is very homogeneous in every register, even when just clicking on the presets and not changing anything. I have to say that I really like the general sound of the piano.. such a beautiful and strong tone
I also like the significant improvements they did to the code regarding release samples. When the Imperial was released I had to reduce the release samples level to -8 or even -10 sometimes, and it felt a little bit random sometimes. This time it's reaaaally good, if even necessary one has to reduce it by 1 or 2 decibles. The presets are made with much love. Look at the FX presets - they have great names and sparkle your creativity. Don't overlook that! Or that the noises are right down around -15dB, that's good because normally they are very distracting to most people.
The best thing about this instrument is how you can bring out melodic lines. I've never experienced this before with any other vst plugin. It's like I could "sculpt" melodic lines in shocking precision, in a true three-dimensional way, this plugin is so much "polyphonies friend".
Going back to other vst's it's like a blur of noise! (exaggerating a bit to make the point). Like, the amount of different timbres in the p to f range is so high, never did it feel so close to actually playing a real grand than with this plugin, let's say restricted to the category "bringing out melodic lines". Even in very low registers, you can bring out hidden and subtly melodic lines in such a crystal clear way. Ah, I love this
I want to replay all pieces I've played with this plugin again to get a feeling for that extra plus of intention I can put into the music.
An easy example, if I play an E major chord in the lowest register, à la Beethoven, it's incredible how clear every single note of the chord comes out, but still has it's nice sustain and resonances attached to it. By choosing a preset in the vein of "concert" you can get a very big sound too, if you want. Maybe not crazy "ffff" - style loudness as with the Steinway D, but honestly very loud and enough for piano concerto accompaniment even.
The price is high, but at this point I think that it is just worth it, and that I am willing to pay for a product. It's just a good deal for that kind of quality.
I believe that there is not "the one" plugin for everything, and I believe there doesn't have to be. It depends on the genre for example, is it pop, or jazz, classical music or orchestral context, minimal music...
I think an instrument like their Steinway D can really be used for everything, but maybe we want to give a certain character to a piece sometimes. For example, we don't put the same spices in the food everytime, that final touch can be different sometimes. And the VC is exceptionally suited for bringing out melodic lines in a way I never heard before, so, for any pieces with explicit melodic lines which one has to bring out. It's so easy to do with this piano...


----------



## PaulieDC (Feb 3, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> It's for an upcoming heart surgery. But will be fine after. Thanks for the concern.


I know this is off topic but thank you for sharing that, and we will certainly be pulling for you and praying all goes well!


----------



## synergy543 (Feb 3, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> It's for an upcoming heart surgery. But will be fine after. Thanks for the concern.


Wishing you the very best with this upcoming operation Guy!


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 3, 2021)

This was a very useful video, as it's mostly the music vs. talking, and walks through the different mic mixtures for easy comparison of the full range of presence available.

"Misty" is one of my favourite jazz tunes (I do it at almost every gig) so it's a good judge for me regarding the appropriateness of this piano towards jazz -- at least, for solo piano and maybe also trio settings.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 3, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> This was a very useful video, as it's mostly the music vs. talking, and walks through the different mic mixtures for easy comparison of the full range of presence available.
> 
> "Misty" is one of my favourite jazz tunes (I do it at almost every gig) so it's a good judge for me regarding the appropriateness of this piano towards jazz -- at least, for solo piano and maybe also trio settings.



Agree, something magical about the intimate preset for Misty. Fit like a glove.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 3, 2021)

I figured it out what the issue is for me with most piano libraries...none of them (most), don't give you the perspective of the audience hearing it. WHen we do a mockup, or use a piano in an orchestral setting, we don not expect to hear the piano so close up...it is never that clean and isolated. I think this is my issue with this library...it's TOO clean that it sounds unnatural to me. It is not how we would hear it from a listening standpoint. I get we need options. but I wish there was more attention to hearing a piano from a distance as it is meant to be heard, and not with our ears inside the lid...LOL I think this holds true for most any library, not just piano. This is why I love many many mic positions.

EDIT: I stand corrected. The demos on the site are way better than the walkthrough in terms of sound...sorry but the brightness of the walkthroughs is way over the top for me. The Polonaise is much more even... So I stand corrected about the mics  Thank you VSL.


----------



## Ben (Feb 3, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I figured it out what the issue is for me with most piano libraries...none of them (most), don't give you the perspective of the audience hearing it. WHen we do a mockup, or use a piano in an orchestral setting, we don not expect to hear the piano so close up...it is never that clean and isolated. I think this is my issue with this library...it's TOO clean that it sounds unnatural to me. It is not how we would hear it from a listening standpoint. I get we need options. but I wish there was more attention to hearing a piano from a distance as it is meant to be heard, and not with our ears inside the lid...LOL I think this holds true for most any library, not just piano. This is why I love many many mic positions.


How about selecting the "Concert" preset? It makes exactly this by using a different mix of all the available mics. If this is still not enough ambient sounding for you, there are the other pianos available recorded in Stage A


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 3, 2021)

Ben said:


> How about selecting the "Concert" preset? It makes exactly this by using a different mix of all the available mics. If this is still not enough ambient sounding for you, there are the other pianos available recorded in Stage A


I posted an edit....the walkthroughs just don't give a good representation. The actual demo on the site sound much better to me 

BTW< the low end on this piano is insane.


----------



## JonS (Feb 3, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> Should be fine. Although tomorrow I'm getting a coronarography which will put my left hand out of business for a few days, but after that will do it.


Praying for you and a speedy recovery!! Hugs!


----------



## bearbait (Feb 4, 2021)

This is great... I'm just waiting for my dealer to redeem my vouchers.

If vsl would do another one in this hall, I vote that it'd be a darker and romantic, a la bill evans vibe piano.


----------



## CGR (Feb 4, 2021)

bearbait said:


> This is great... I'm just waiting for my dealer to redeem my vouchers.
> 
> If vsl would do another one in this hall, I vote that it'd be a darker and romantic, a la bill evans vibe piano.



Nice one. A little like this (which I've posted before) - the underrated Dudley Moore on piano. Love the bass & drums on this too - very tasteful:


----------



## keepitsimple (Feb 4, 2021)

My contribution to the demos. Original music inside.


----------



## Virtuoso (Feb 4, 2021)

Can anyone else hear an odd high frequency oscillation from C#4 to E4? (or C#3-E3 per Yamaha's convention). It's most obvious on the Player presets.

Just echoing what @Gamma1734 said above about the dynamic range - I'm really enjoying playing _extremely quietly_ with this piano! The Surround to Stereo Player preset sounds gorgeous. 

I'm getting some glitching when the voice count goes over 400 - you can hear it in Gamma1734's demo video too. I pushed the preload size right up to 32768 but it made no difference - seems to be a CPU issue.


----------



## yellow_lupine (Feb 4, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> I'm getting some glitching when the voice count goes over 400 - you can hear it in Gamma1734's demo video too. I pushed the preload size right up to 32768 but it made no difference - seems to be a CPU issue.


I still have to find out what CPU does it take in order to play at least three mics simultaneously without any glitches on whichever Synchron Piano. I have tried with a 6-core 2.9GHz wihout any success...

Is there anyone with a M1 Mac who successfully managed to play more than 2 mics at times?


----------



## Ben (Feb 4, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> Can anyone else hear an odd high frequency oscillation from C#4 to E4? (or C#3-E3 per Yamaha's convention). It's most obvious on the Player presets.


I'm not sure I get exactly what you are talking about, but I'm pretty sure it's how the real piano reacts to certain frequencies. If you don't like it you can modify it in the EDIT menu with the per-key EQ, for example:






Link to the manual: https://www.vsl.info/manuals/synchron-pianos/edit-view



Virtuoso said:


> I'm getting some glitching when the voice count goes over 400 - you can hear it in Gamma1734's demo video too. I pushed the preload size right up to 32768 but it made no difference - seems to be a CPU issue.


Feel free to PM me your system specs (OS + version, CPU, RAM, Audio Interface + Buffer Size), so I can take a look at it. (no problems on my system even with even more voices).


----------



## Virtuoso (Feb 4, 2021)

Ben said:


> I'm not sure I get exactly what you are talking about, but I'm pretty sure it's how the real piano reacts to certain frequencies.


It's a subtle high frequency ringing which occurs just on those 4 notes and has an odd modulation, like a tremolo. At my age, it may just be my hearing though, which is why I'm asking if anyone else has noticed it! 


Ben said:


> Feel free to PM me your system specs (OS + version, CPU, RAM, Audio Interface + Buffer Size), so I can take a look at it. (no problems on my system even with even more voices).


Catalina 10.15.7 - 2019 Mac Pro 16 core, 384GB RAM, UA Apollo x8, Buffer 128 @44.1KHz on the standalone Synchron Player 1522. It craps out occasionally at around 400 voices and the CPU meter suddenly jumps from 20% to 100%. Nothing else running and the library is on an internal NVMe SSD.


----------



## yellow_lupine (Feb 4, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> Catalina 10.15.7 - 2019 Mac Pro 16 core, 384GB RAM, UA Apollo x8, Buffer 128 @44.1KHz on the standalone Synchron Player 1522. It craps out occasionally at around 400 voices and the CPU meter suddenly jumps from 20% to 100%. Nothing else running and the library is on an internal NVMe SSD.


 if with such a system you get glitches what kind of computer shall one use to play 3, 4 or 7 mics together??? A NASA super computer?


----------



## JEPA (Feb 4, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> Should be fine. Although tomorrow I'm getting a coronarography which will put my left hand out of business for a few days, but after that will do it.


Wishing you all the best with this and a speedy recovery! 🙏


----------



## ptram (Feb 4, 2021)

bearbait said:


> If vsl would do another one in this hall, I vote that it'd be a darker and romantic, a la bill evans vibe piano.


Go figure: I think that the _Waltz for Debby_ example sounds bright (mentally filtering the ageing recording), and is very similar to the 280VC!

Paolo


----------



## Virtuoso (Feb 4, 2021)

yellow_lupine said:


> if with such a system you get glitches what kind of computer shall one use to play 3, 4 or 7 mics together??? A NASA super computer?


I wonder if it's some issue with the new player? You can hear it all the way through Gamma1734's concert demo that he posted earlier - e.g. just taking the first couple of minutes as an example - at 0:20, 0:54, 1:12 and 1:47.


----------



## CGR (Feb 4, 2021)

Ben said:


> I'm not sure I get exactly what you are talking about, but I'm pretty sure it's how the real piano reacts to certain frequencies. If you don't like it you can modify it in the EDIT menu with the per-key EQ, for example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a precise tool to tame any errant frequencies on individual or groups of notes. I tamed a few mid range notes in the VSL Bluthner grand just yesterday with the EQ tool - worked brilliantly.


----------



## keepitsimple (Feb 5, 2021)

FX presets demo. I have to say, i never expected THAT to come out from the Synchron pianos!


----------



## Gamma1734 (Feb 5, 2021)

Virtuoso said:


> I wonder if it's some issue with the new player? You can hear it all the way through Gamma1734's concert demo that he posted earlier - e.g. just taking the first couple of minutes as an example - at 0:20, 0:54, 1:12 and 1:47.


It's my fault, i used a certain asio driver to be able to record directly through obs. Privately, i play with a better driver and no crackles...
I recorded the whole video already with that better driver but everything was messed up, so after spending some hours on this for nothing already I was a bit angry and recorded it this way.. with some crackles


----------



## Virtuoso (Feb 5, 2021)

Gamma1734 said:


> It's my fault, i used a certain asio driver to be able to record directly through obs. Privately, i play with a better driver and no crackles...
> I recorded the whole video already with that better driver but everything was messed up, so after spending some hours on this for nothing already I was a bit angry and recorded it this way.. with some crackles


Ah - thanks for the information! I'm still scratching my head over what's causing my glitching. I was hammering the Imperial today and got well over 600 voices with no issues, so it's probably not the Player. It's only happening on the new 280VC and it's not consistent.


----------



## jamwerks (Feb 5, 2021)

Might be a audio driver problem?


----------



## Donethur (Feb 5, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> BTW, if anyone would like to hear a particular piece with a particular mic setting, I can try and make it happen.
> 
> ​


Hi Guy. As you are offering it, is it possible to listen the first mov of the sonata 23 from Beethoven with this piano using the concert settings?. I just want to know how it behaves with the low register and of course, this piece has a lot to analyze (textures, intensity, etc.). If possible only 

thanks!!


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 5, 2021)

Donethur said:


> Hi Guy. As you are offering ir, is it possible to listen the first mov of the sonata 23 from Beethoven with this piano using the concert settings?. I just want to know how ir behaves with the low register and of course, this piece has a lot to analyze (textures, intensity, etc.). If possible only
> 
> thanks!!



Appassionata Sonata, Sure. Just got a coronarography yesterday, so have to wait a couple of days before using my right hand again.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 5, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> EDIT: I stand corrected. The demos on the site are way better than the walkthrough in terms of sound...sorry but the brightness of the walkthroughs is way over the top for me. The Polonaise is much more even... So I stand corrected about the mics  Thank you VSL.


It is normal that the audio demos sound better and more flowing, they are done with a single preferred preset. 

On the other hand, the video was meant more for a comparison etude of the flexibility of the various mics, which explains why you get constant interruption of the flow with preset contrasts, but at least you get to see how you can play with the sound.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 5, 2021)

JEPA said:


> Wishing you all the best with this and a speedy recovery! 🙏


Thanks JEPA, went very well. Right hand needs a little break though.


----------



## Donethur (Feb 5, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> Appassionata Sonata, Sure. Just got a coronarography yesterday, so have to wait a couple of days before using my right hand again.


Thanks a lot Guy!. I hope you recover soon by the way. Cheers!.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 5, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> It is normal that the audio demos sound better and more flowing, they are done with a single preferred preset.
> 
> On the other hand, the video was meant more for a comparison etude of the flexibility of the various mics, which explains why you get constant interruption of the flow with preset contrasts, but at least you get to see how you can play with the sound.


I didn't mean in terms of sound quality, I meant in terms of actually showing off the library. The walkthroughs are so darn bright and the upper register sounds like the velocity is maxed out...just glad there are both methods to hear the library. Now the low end is awesome in all videos and demos...but for me, the clear giveaway in all piano libraries is how the upper mid range is handled...this is usually the weakest area for sample pianos.


----------



## feck (Feb 5, 2021)

keepitsimple said:


> FX presets demo. I have to say, i never expected THAT to come out from the Synchron pianos!



Agreed. I love that they are taking a more modern/esoteric approach with this. I already used the FX patches in 2 commercial cues. Instant vibe.


----------



## Gamma1734 (Feb 5, 2021)

An additional video, reflection on all of vsl's bösendorfers:


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 6, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I didn't mean in terms of sound quality, I meant in terms of actually showing off the library. The walkthroughs are so darn bright and the upper register sounds like the velocity is maxed out...just glad there are both methods to hear the library. Now the low end is awesome in all videos and demos...but for me, the clear giveaway in all piano libraries is how the upper mid range is handled...this is usually the weakest area for sample pianos.



Jaketanner, could you give an example of that with a specific piece so I can check this out more closely?


----------



## keepitsimple (Feb 6, 2021)

One more


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 6, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> Jaketanner, could you give an example of that with a specific piece so I can check this out more closely?


I would need to listen again to see which one, but it was basically most of the time where it went into the upper register. from C5 up it starts to sound a bit thin. It could very well be the velocity settings as well on the controller (not suggesting you don't know what you're doing), just what it sounds like to me.


----------



## Jazz+ (Feb 6, 2021)

I think it reminds me of an excellent rock piano.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 6, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I would need to listen again to see which one, but it was basically most of the time where it went into the upper register. from C5 up it starts to sound a bit thin. It could very well be the velocity settings as well on the controller (not suggesting you don't know what you're doing), just what it sounds like to me.


The reason I'm curious is that there shouldn't be any difference between the video and audio demos aside from the video going through several presets during the same piece, which could explain it, this is why it would help if you could give me an example of a specific piece, and no worry about this for me.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 6, 2021)

Jazz+ said:


> I think it reminds me of an excellent rock piano.


Yes for pop it would be freakin awesome. Cuts through easily I think.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 6, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> The reason I'm curious is that there shouldn't be any difference between the video and audio demos aside from the video going through several presets during the same piece, which could explain it, this is why it would help if you could give me an example of a specific piece, and no worry about this for me.


Ok once I’m back at my setup I’ll have another listen.


----------



## SupremeFist (Feb 6, 2021)

feck said:


> Agreed. I love that they are taking a more modern/esoteric approach with this. I already used the FX patches in 2 commercial cues. Instant vibe.


Do the other Synchron pianos have fx presets like this? I have 3 of them but never even looked. (Away from my desk rn or I would just try 'em...)


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 6, 2021)

So I was talking with Jaketanner on PM and we found out he wasn't going crazy. The reason behind the mysterious Chopin Polonaise Op. 53 version on the site is because the Polonaise you see and hear on the video, live playing, is me, however the audio demo is a different version with a different mic setting by Steven Limbaugh. I got confused myself.


----------



## keepitsimple (Feb 6, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Do the other Synchron pianos have fx presets like this? I have 3 of them but never even looked. (Away from my desk rn or I would just try 'em...)


The Bosendorfer Upright and Bluthner also have FX presets.


----------



## Jazz+ (Feb 6, 2021)

Which Synchron sounds like this piano?


----------



## krismiller1982 (Feb 6, 2021)

For almost a decade now, all I truly wish - as a live performing keyboardist in an R&B/Soul band - is for VSL to use their deep sample tech/skills to capture a completely dry Steinway B or D.
Nothing beats UVI Ravenscroft playing out live through a PA. Why? The room is taken out of the equation. Nothing sounds worse to me than hearing a sampled room playing through a PA in a live venue.
Why hasn't VSL ever catered to popular genres?
Throw up 2 mics & a moving blanket over the lid & you have instant Elton John/Billy Joel ect ect.
Another thing all libraries lack are true mono single source close samples. Oh man I could go on and on... Not to take away from VSL newest Synchron piano, but I just don’t get why we don’t have what I mentioned already in 2021....


----------



## Jazz+ (Feb 6, 2021)

krismiller1982 said:


> For almost a decade now, all I truly wish - as a live performing keyboardist in an R&B/Soul band - is for VSL to use their deep sample tech/skills to capture a completely dry Steinway B or D.
> Nothing beats UVI Ravenscroft playing out live through a PA. Why? The room is taken out of the equation. Nothing sounds worse to me than hearing a sampled room playing through a PA in a live venue.
> Why hasn't VSL ever catered to popular genres?
> Throw up 2 mics & a moving blanket over the lid & you have instant Elton John/Billy Joel ect ect.
> Another thing all libraries lack are true mono single source close samples. Oh man I could go on and on... Not to take away from VSL newest Synchron piano, but I just don’t get why we don’t have what I mentioned already in 2021....


Excellent points. How is 280VC versus Garritan CFX in its close up "Player" mode?


----------



## krismiller1982 (Feb 6, 2021)

Jazz+ said:


> Excellent points. How is 280VC versus Garritan CFX in its close up "Player" mode?


I chime in a little more.. I bought Garritan CFX a long time ago & it suffers from the same syndrome all the Synthogy Ivory pianos do. Which is there’s no true staccato, so you hear note fade outs even with synthesized sympathetic resonance slightly masking releases. I own 2 other Synchron Piano libraries & Im almost 99.999% certain it would be night and day if you compared Garritan to 280VC note release tails. As for overall timbre, pick your poison. They all sound good - even the Garrita, but when exposed those older libraries warts really stick out..


----------



## Jazz+ (Feb 6, 2021)

krismiller1982 said:


> I chime in a little more.. I bought Garritan CFX a long time ago & it suffers from the same syndrome all the Synthogy Ivory pianos do. Which is there’s no true staccato, so you hear note fade outs even with synthesized sympathetic resonance slightly masking releases. I own 2 other Synchron Piano libraries & Im almost 99.999% certain it would be night and day if you compared Garritan to 280VC note release tails. As for overall timbre, pick your poison. They all sound good - even the Garrita, but when exposed those older libraries warts really stick out..


I think you are talking about what I consider extreme staccato. I have a range of staccatos in my playing. I never go for the very short staccato. 

I really like the ambiance of the Garritan CFX Abbey Road "room" and whatever mics they used for the close up. I like its close mic "Player" mode best, and it can be edited to sound quite dry and "organic", with a lot of warmth and fullness. I like it more than the previous Synchron offerings in which I am aware of a thinner more steely quality. But, I'm not sure about this new 280VC vs Garritan. I look forward to some shootout videos.


----------



## krismiller1982 (Feb 6, 2021)

Jazz+ said:


> I think you are talking about what I consider extreme staccato. I have a range of staccatos in my playing. I never go for the very short staccato.
> 
> I really like the ambiance of the Garritan CFX Abbey Road "room" and whatever mics they used for the close up. I like its close mic "Player" mode best, and it can be edited to sound quite dry and "organic", with a lot of warmth and fullness. I like it more than the previous Synchron offerings in which I am aware of a thinner more steely quality. But, I'm not sure about this new 280VC vs Garritan. I look forward to some shootout videos.


I very well could be a piano snob though lol!! I grew up with a Masin & Hamlin in the home. & the franchise owner of the Pizza huts my father supervised had a Bosendorfer 290 in the office I'd regularly play. My church also had 3 Steinway Ds & a B...... All being said, I understand what you mean by extreme staccato. I very much would like to see/hear a comparison video of this new Synchron.


----------



## Gamma1734 (Feb 6, 2021)

I don't think Garritan staccato is particularly bad, however I have to say it doesn't feel that nice to play because of the way Garritan handles note attack. Which is rather (and comparatively) a long attack, giving the warm and known Garritan sound. 

Interestingly, the best plugin I have used so far related to staccato playing is the Modern U. That feels so great to play staccato with it.
On that note I have another question.
Do you use Midi Controllers (DP's, hybrids etc) which can assign release note values to your playing? I have a Kawai Upright and the german (or even european) technician for these questions told me it's impossible or very difficult for those hybrids to be able to map the release values in your playing.

But the strange part is now that I myself tried to program Release Note Values in a midi file I performed and I really couldn't hear any difference whatsoever. Is that correct? Shouldn't release note value behaviour have a dramatic effect on the structure of algorithmically chosen release notes? I am missing a lot here, specially with VSL algorithms?


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 8, 2021)

Like Krismiller1982 I also grew up with a Mason & Hamlin in the house, as well as one at my grandmother's house, and always preferred it to the Steinway (still do!). I always felt it had a more controllable lower dynamic range than the Steinways, with sweeter harmonics overall, and I love how it feels to play as the unique bracing system means the entire instrument, including the keys, vibrates as you play (and how you play!).

But of course my experience is mostly in the chamber music, solo, jazz, classical contexts, for such comparisons. On stage or in an orchestra, M&H may not rule so much.

I'm hoping to finally get a chance to start working with this new VSL library this week. Due to it being recorded on Stage B, I will mostly be evaluating it for jazz and more intimate settings vs. full orchestra context. Not sure how soon I'll have time to tailor some unique presets for it like I did for the others.


----------



## keepitsimple (Feb 10, 2021)

The 280VC in a jazz context with soprano sax, nylon guitar, upright bass and drums.


----------



## CGR (Feb 10, 2021)

keepitsimple said:


> The 280VC in a jazz context with soprano sax, nylon guitar, upright bass and drums.



Nice one! The 280VC sits so well in that mix - a really good combination of definition & clarity and room/space.


----------



## keepitsimple (Feb 10, 2021)

CGR said:


> Nice one! The 280VC sits so well in that mix - a really good combination of definition & clarity and room/space.


It does! I was going to lower those room mics a bit but turned out it's perfect the way it is.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 10, 2021)

It definitely has its own personality, with hints of other well-known pianos (even Baldwins, which Dave Brubeck preferred), with some brightness combined with heft. I'd recommend a HPF on the upright bass but otherwise the balance sounds pretty good overall, and the piano sounds like it's in the right place spatially, if slightly to the front of the other instruments (though this would be expected in this context). The piece itself reminds me a bit of McCoy Tyner's playing and sound.


----------



## Jazz+ (Feb 12, 2021)

How about a ballad played very sparsely and simply. No flash, just tone. Something standard like Polka Dots And Moon Beams or Easy Living or Body and Soul or Over The Rainbow. In a modest Keith Jarret style.


----------



## Jazz+ (Feb 12, 2021)

I think I am hearing a great racehorse piano with great clarity. But how does it sound in terms of simple, warm, intimate at home character playing. Like Jarret on his You The Night And The Music album?


----------



## sostenuto (Feb 12, 2021)

Audio Demos: Daeyoun Kim's 'Misty' seems very cool for this ..... _yet strong Keith Jarret fan_. 

Would enjoy anything performed by Yuja Wang


----------



## SupremeFist (Feb 12, 2021)

I'd really like to hear a blend of just the close mics from the full library playing something like the opening to Chopin's G minor Nocturne. 🤞🏻


----------



## star.keys (Feb 13, 2021)

Jazz+ said:


> I think you are talking about what I consider extreme staccato. I have a range of staccatos in my playing. I never go for the very short staccato.
> 
> I really like the ambiance of the Garritan CFX Abbey Road "room" and whatever mics they used for the close up. I like its close mic "Player" mode best, and it can be edited to sound quite dry and "organic", with a lot of warmth and fullness. I like it more than the previous Synchron offerings in which I am aware of a thinner more steely quality. But, I'm not sure about this new 280VC vs Garritan. I look forward to some shootout videos.


Garritan staccato can be controlled through the "release" knob. Works well. Staccatos are excellent with Specitasonics Keyscape and Pearl C7 as well. VSL is weak in this area and playing staccatos is an impossible thing to me.


----------



## Ben (Feb 13, 2021)

star.keys said:


> Garritan staccato can be controlled through the "release" knob. Works well. Staccatos are excellent with Specitasonics Keyscape and Pearl C7 as well. VSL is weak in this area and playing staccatos is an impossible thing to me.


You don't need a knob, just play short notes. We sampled different lengths of short notes including staccato, and the samples are chosen automatically.


----------



## FireGS (Feb 13, 2021)

Ben said:


> You don't need a knob, just play short notes. We sampled different lengths of short notes including staccato, and the samples are chosen automatically.


I'm curious - how does that work? Is there a bit of delay added from the output to determine first the note length and then play the right sample? Is it really working in real time?


----------



## Ben (Feb 13, 2021)

FireGS said:


> I'm curious - how does that work? Is there a bit of delay added from the output to determine first the note length and then play the right sample? Is it really working in real time?


Sampling all kinds of variations and then adding some secret sauce - the result of a lot of R&D. 
I'm sorry I can't tell you how it exactly works (and I don't know all the details as well).


----------



## CGR (Feb 13, 2021)

Jazz+ said:


> I think I am hearing a great racehorse piano with great clarity. But how does it sound in terms of simple, warm, intimate at home character playing. Like Jarret on his You The Night And The Music album?


A little off topic from the Bosendorfer 280VC, but here's a simple tune of mine where you can hear the notes ring out, using the VSL Vienna Imperial (Player mics with a little of the built-in convolution reverb).

View attachment RELEASED - VSL Vienna Imperial Player.mp3


PS: I've had that Jarrett album for years - a great recording.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 13, 2021)

keepitsimple said:


> The 280VC in a jazz context with soprano sax, nylon guitar, upright bass and drums.



Is this the standard version or full? What settings...thanks. Sounds great!


----------



## keepitsimple (Feb 13, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Is this the standard version or full? What settings...thanks. Sounds great!


Standard version. "Intimate Timbre" FX preset with reverb disabled in the mixer 👍🏻


----------



## PaulieDC (Feb 14, 2021)

keepitsimple said:


> Standard version. "Intimate Timbre" FX preset with reverb disabled in the mixer 👍🏻


you nailed it... that sounds like a WELL-mic'd piano at a jazz concert, NOT a sound library!


----------



## keepitsimple (Feb 14, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> you nailed it... that sounds like a WELL-mic'd piano at a jazz concert, NOT a sound library!


Check your email. I've got an interesting shootout for you. 280VC vs Ravenscroft vs Vintage D.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 14, 2021)

keepitsimple said:


> Standard version. "Intimate Timbre" FX preset with reverb disabled in the mixer 👍🏻


Cool thanks. May get this.


----------



## PaulieDC (Feb 14, 2021)

Gamma1734 said:


> I don't think Garritan staccato is particularly bad, however I have to say it doesn't feel that nice to play because of the way Garritan handles note attack. Which is rather (and comparatively) a long attack, giving the warm and known Garritan sound.


Actually, the “feel” has everything to do with the velocity curve of your controller. It’s pretty rare to have the default velocity curve work out of the box for a controller. Always have to tweak it. Garritan has close mic samples, all the attack is there. Also you have to turn off their Limiter. That’s the single weakest point in the Garritan CFX, and for the life of me I don’t understand why that’s on by default.


----------



## ltmusic (Feb 15, 2021)

Is there a demo of the new Bosendorfer to try ?


----------



## Gamma1734 (Feb 16, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Actually, the “feel” has everything to do with the velocity curve of your controller. It’s pretty rare to have the default velocity curve work out of the box for a controller. Always have to tweak it. Garritan has close mic samples, all the attack is there. Also you have to turn off their Limiter. That’s the single weakest point in the Garritan CFX, and for the life of me I don’t understand why that’s on by default.


That's true, on the one hand we want to have a huge dynamic range and be able to play pp and ff convincingly, on the other hand we want the program to "forgive" our incapability to perfectly play repetitions. Since the velocities will be in some "window", say of size 20 values, these samples in this "error window" should be round about the same timbre and volume, otherwise notes will be swallowed and one can't hear them. It's funny, if you try to play with the velocity constant (say always 70) how precise it feels to play a vst.
But my little problem with the Garritan (on a very high level of course), is that if I really turn the volume up and my headphones and listen to a recording, the whole sound which arrives my ears sounds a bit muddy, unclear and noisy. It's like I have to EQ a little bit that area because it takes up just a little too much space. That's really great for atmosphere, but for classical playing it can be too much (and yes, I tried to fiddle around with all controls, it's "the" Garritan sound which does that). Also, especially when playing long melodic lines very legato, the Garritan always feels a bit sampl-y to play. Instead of singing, it feels like "one sample, next sample, next sample". it's difficult to describe, but that's the only thing that bothers me a bit. This particular thing feels better with VSL instruments.
I just made another recording use the Player perspective

of course the sound is really great all in all


----------



## Gamma1734 (Feb 16, 2021)

ltmusic said:


> Is there a demo of the new Bosendorfer to try ?


There is no demo but you can buy the instrument and return it within 14 days via a "no hassle" return policy. Where you basically write an email that you want to return it, then you delete the license and you get the money back.


----------



## ltmusic (Feb 16, 2021)

Gamma1734 said:


> There is no demo but you can buy the instrument and return it within 14 days via a "no hassle" return policy. Where you basically write an email that you want to return it, then you delete the license and you get the money back.


Thanks! !


----------



## CGR (Feb 16, 2021)

Gamma1734 said:


> That's true, on the one hand we want to have a huge dynamic range and be able to play pp and ff convincingly, on the other hand we want the program to "forgive" our incapability to perfectly play repetitions. Since the velocities will be in some "window", say of size 20 values, these samples in this "error window" should be round about the same timbre and volume, otherwise notes will be swallowed and one can't hear them. It's funny, if you try to play with the velocity constant (say always 70) how precise it feels to play a vst.
> But my little problem with the Garritan (on a very high level of course), is that if I really turn the volume up and my headphones and listen to a recording, the whole sound which arrives my ears sounds a bit muddy, unclear and noisy. It's like I have to EQ a little bit that area because it takes up just a little too much space. That's really great for atmosphere, but for classical playing it can be too much (and yes, I tried to fiddle around with all controls, it's "the" Garritan sound which does that). Also, especially when playing long melodic lines very legato, the Garritan always feels a bit sampl-y to play. Instead of singing, it feels like "one sample, next sample, next sample". it's difficult to describe, but that's the only thing that bothers me a bit. This particular thing feels better with VSL instruments.
> I just made another recording use the Player perspective
> 
> of course the sound is really great all in all



Excellent playing. The 280VC sounds great - a natural ambience without losing detail and becoming sonically blurry or muddy.

VSL should sample more pianos in Stage B. Maybe a mid to large sized grand piano from the 1920's with some more power & body compared to the 1890's Bluthner captured there, but still with a warm vintage tone. I think VSL have enough pristine modern pianos in their collection now.


----------



## lillloyd (Feb 17, 2021)

Hi, first time post here. I really love the sound of this piano - some have mentioned they found it bright but I think it would work really well with what I do. I have a digital piano that I'm using to 'drive' my sample libraries.

I'm a student, and was seriously considering the standard bundle at the Sept EDU discount (which I understand to be a deeper discount than the year-round version).

I was wondering if anyone knows - if I purchase the 280VC now at the lesser student discount, will there be a corresponding drop in the overall price for the bundle (since I'd own one of the libraries in the bundle)? Or would it be less costly overall to just wait to purchase the bundle in September (which I assume would be the case if they didn't discount the bundle further if I already own the 280VC).

Thanks in advance for any help with this!


----------



## Petrucci (Feb 17, 2021)

Bought the Standard version of 280VC - what can I say - It's awesome! I wouldn't call it very bright, perfect for me and and even with 3 mics a lot can be changed in the sound.


----------



## CGR (Feb 18, 2021)

So, I have the VSL Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial Standard which is fantastic (as well as the original old VSL Bosendorfer Imperial, VSL Vienna Imperial, Synchron Bluthner Standard & Synchron Bosendorfer Upright Full) but I keep hearing these wonderful user demos of the 280VC and I'm sorely tempted. Anyone care to talk me out of it?


----------



## SupremeFist (Feb 18, 2021)

CGR said:


> So, I have the VSL Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial Standard which is fantastic (as well as the original old VSL Bosendorfer Imperial, VSL Vienna Imperial, Synchron Bluthner Standard & Synchron Bosendorfer Upright Full) but I keep hearing these wonderful user demos of the 280VC and I'm sorely tempted. Anyone care to talk me out of it?


OK! It's not as much fun as getting a new piano, but upgrading either your Synchron Imperial or Blüthner to the full libraries might be a better idea? Depending on what sound you're after, of course. (I have the full versions of both and would like them much less if I only had access to the standard microphones.)


----------



## slobajudge (Feb 19, 2021)

CGR said:


> So, I have the VSL Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial Standard which is fantastic (as well as the original old VSL Bosendorfer Imperial, VSL Vienna Imperial, Synchron Bluthner Standard & Synchron Bosendorfer Upright Full) but I keep hearing these wonderful user demos of the 280VC and I'm sorely tempted. Anyone care to talk me out of it?


Hmm, I have VSL Yamaha and Vienna Imperial. Last summer I demoed all others VSL pianos and I had no desire to buy more. Of course you will be the judge.


----------



## harmaes (Feb 19, 2021)

CGR said:


> So, I have the VSL Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial Standard which is fantastic (as well as the original old VSL Bosendorfer Imperial, VSL Vienna Imperial, Synchron Bluthner Standard & Synchron Bosendorfer Upright Full) but I keep hearing these wonderful user demos of the 280VC and I'm sorely tempted. Anyone care to talk me out of it?


I bought the full version of the 280VC a week ago and had to find my way into the Synchron Piano player. There’s a lot of control there to tune the piano to your liking. Overall I think this piano responds better and is better balanced than the older CFX and D-274 which I also tried but didn’t like as much. I tried some of the compositions I’m working on and the 280VC responds great on different materials where the older pianos didn’t work so well on certain parts I tried. The drier studio probably helps and finding the balance between the tube and close mic is where you can find your preferred sound. Overall I recommend the piano and you can always return it under the refund policy.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 19, 2021)

Some people had requested some pieces, here they are along with some external reverb options.


----------



## CGR (Feb 19, 2021)

harmaes said:


> I bought the full version of the 280VC a week ago and had to find my way into the Synchron Piano player. There’s a lot of control there to tune the piano to your liking. Overall I think this piano responds better and is better balanced than the older CFX and D-274 which I also tried but didn’t like as much. I tried some of the compositions I’m working on and the 280VC responds great on different materials where the older pianos didn’t work so well on certain parts I tried. The drier studio probably helps and finding the balance between the tube and close mic is where you can find your preferred sound. Overall I recommend the piano and you can always return it under the refund policy.


Great feedback - thanks for taking the time.


----------



## harmaes (Feb 19, 2021)

Looking forward to a new Steinway or Fazioli recorded in Studio B?


----------



## PaulieDC (Feb 19, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> Some people had requested some pieces, here they are along with some external reverb options.



As I said in the You Tube comments, you maniac! Thank you for the Tatum and Gershwin!


----------



## Ben (Feb 26, 2021)

Interview with František Janoska:



If you didn’t see it yet: You should check it out right away!
(And don’t forget, February has only 28 days  )


----------



## WelshMikey (Feb 26, 2021)

Really split between this one and the upright, sale ends on my birthday haha, wish I could afford both, two for one offer coming any time soon 😂? I will probably end up buying the upright though as I find that piano the most unique sounding and it conveniently costs less.


----------



## Ben (Feb 26, 2021)

WelshMikey said:


> Really split between this one and the upright, sale ends on my birthday haha, wish I could afford both, two for one offer coming any time soon 😂? I will probably end up buying the upright though as I find that piano the most unique sounding and it conveniently costs less.


My personal advice: If your budget allows it, go for the Standard Library of both, and upgrade these later. This way you can choose which sound is best for your current project


----------



## SupremeFist (Feb 26, 2021)

Ben said:


> !
> (And don’t forget, February has only 28 days  )


Not according to Plugin Alliance!


----------



## SupremeFist (Feb 26, 2021)

WelshMikey said:


> Really split between this one and the upright, sale ends on my birthday haha, wish I could afford both, two for one offer coming any time soon 😂? I will probably end up buying the upright though as I find that piano the most unique sounding and it conveniently costs less.


Of course it depends what else you have but the upright is just wonderful and as you say quite unusual (I have the full version).


----------



## WelshMikey (Feb 26, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Of course it depends what else you have but the upright is just wonderful and as you say quite unusual (I have the full version).


From YouTube videos I am not certain I need the full library. I can hear only very slight differences between standard and full, seems more obvious in the grand pianos than the upright. Will likely get the standard to begin with.


----------



## Evans (Feb 26, 2021)

I happily picked up the 280VC (standard). Even if I don't have an immediate project for it, I could see it being a lifesaver in the future that I'll be happy to have on hand. It's also fun to play, casually.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 26, 2021)

WelshMikey said:


> From YouTube videos I am not certain I need the full library. I can hear only very slight differences between standard and full, seems more obvious in the grand pianos than the upright. Will likely get the standard to begin with.


Yes, that may well be. The mic positions are not spread out quite as much for the upright. I personally like having the flexibility anyway though, as I do a LOT of reggae/ska/calypso music and uprights often rule in that genre, thus I need maximum flexibility in mic placement.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 27, 2021)

I finally got around to spending a couple of hours with this piano tonight, and it is fantastic! Quite a bit different from the Imperial, so I made two custom presets that allow me to start slotting it into existing projects and seeing which kind of music I'm going to grab it for.

So far I have made a tentative mix preset for chamber and another for full orchestra context. Likely these will be tweaked more later on, but right now they're in a good state for at least doing on-par comparisons against other Synchron pianos in a variety of my projects.

A bit to my surprise, the project where I thought I was most in need of a Stage Left positioned 9' grand, was the first to swap for a centered surround down-mix of the 280VC. I have a brief piano intro with a gigantic note cluster, in one of my arrangements of the famous Doctor Who Theme. It's a HUGE challenge for almost any library. Now I FINALLY have a final take for this brief but important part!

I'm going to throw it at some jazz projects now, as I'm still using other choices on many of those and this may allow me to go to a 100% VSL Synchron Pianos template across all projects and genres. Yippee!


----------



## Robert_G (Feb 27, 2021)

This would all be great, but unfortunately VSL libraries haven't been able to activate for over 3 days now.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 27, 2021)

I've now made my third preset, for "Tight Studio" situations, and it's the perfect sound for a VERY dense arrangement in the pop ballad context.

What's especially great, is that the piano part in this song goes between jazz influenced chord comping, doubling of other parts, and strong melodic solos. This is the ONLY piano that I've gotten to cut through and find the right timbral balance with the other instruments, in every role that it takes in such a "pop studio" context.

It may be that if VSL adds even more piano models later on, one of them will be more appropriate, but for now, this 280VC is the ticket, for every dense mix situation I've thrown at it so far, whether needing an orchestral spaciousness or a tighter pop studio room balance.

Maybe I'll retain enough energy and focus to create a jazz setting for it tonight as well.


----------



## CGR (Feb 27, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I've now made my third preset, for "Tight Studio" situations, and it's the perfect sound for a VERY dense arrangement in the pop ballad context.
> 
> What's especially great, is that the piano part in this song goes between jazz influenced chord comping, doubling of other parts, and strong melodic solos. This is the ONLY piano that I've gotten to cut through and find the right timbral balance with the other instruments, in every role that it takes in such a "pop studio" context.
> 
> ...


Would love to hear some excerpts of your music with the 280VC Mark. Time is ticking and I'm still on the fence about biting the bullet! (How's that for a triplet of idioms!)


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 27, 2021)

Two of them aren't originals, so there's copyright issues with posting here, and I still haven't copyrighted anything I've written myself (starting around 1974 or so, up to the present) either, so I'm not too keen on posting audio on a forum until I have all that stuff worked out (I get stuck every time I think I've figured out all the legal and practical stuff involved).


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 27, 2021)

On a separate note, every time VSL adds another piano to Synchron Pianos, I review the previous ones a bit, and sometimes end up finding new uses for them or minor tweaks to my existing presets.

In this case, I primarily improved my Imperial presets a bit, and made a new one for the Bluthner to cover Cumbia music (which previously was assigned to a non-Synchron library that I am finally trying to phase out as my final non-Synchron piano source).

It does take quite a bit of work to get any of these Synchron Pianos as bright as some of the less elaborate libraries available to us, but patience is rewarded. Each piano has a slightly different miking strategy, but this also keeps us from getting lazy in templating one piano to the next.

The Bluthner has that interesting spherical mic that surprisingly helps brightness. Imperial, Steinway, and Yamaha, have a Room-Mix mic channel, which I recall being a shortcut for adding down-mix surround mics. The 280VC has fewer options than most of the others, likely due to being recorded on a smaller stage, so this also forces one to be more focused while setting mix strategies.


----------



## harmaes (Feb 28, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Two of them aren't originals, so there's copyright issues with posting here, and I still haven't copyrighted anything I've written myself (starting around 1974 or so, up to the present) either, so I'm not too keen on posting audio on a forum until I have all that stuff worked out (I get stuck every time I think I've figured out all the legal and practical stuff involved).


Can you share the presets on the VSL Forum?


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 28, 2021)

Well, I did that earlier and regretted it, because you can't replace attachments on that forum, so then it creates some naming issues with updates. So I've been hesitant to post any more presets knowing it might lead to confusion if people don't know what version they have. That is, I have tweaked some of mine in line with tweaks that VSL themselves did in updates to the actual instrument libraries.


----------



## WelshMikey (Feb 28, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Two of them aren't originals, so there's copyright issues with posting here, and I still haven't copyrighted anything I've written myself (starting around 1974 or so, up to the present) either, so I'm not too keen on posting audio on a forum until I have all that stuff worked out (I get stuck every time I think I've figured out all the legal and practical stuff involved).


Thought I posted this earlier but apparently I didn't press.post:

To the best of my knowledge if you post to YouTube there is unlikely to be any issue. If you make a cover song and YouTube identifies any copyrighted parts it notifies the copyright holder who can do one of three things:

1) Make you withdraw the video (rarely happens)
2) Obtain advertising revenue from your video
3) Do nothing


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 28, 2021)

Ben said:


> Interview with František Janoska:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was just about to post this. This is a demo...THIS is the demo that should have started the thread. With no disrespect to Guy but I am wondering why the sound of this video supersedes those of the actual demos and walkthroughs? Is it the controller? I can't think of any other reason...this sounds beautiful and soon as I can, i am buying.

How much of this sound is part of the standard? How close can I get to the sound in this video without the full?


----------



## Petrucci (Feb 28, 2021)

Jumped on and upgraded to Full 280VC, cause I liked Standard so much..!


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 28, 2021)

Although it's not entirely certain quite yet, it looks like the 280VC is going to become my piano of choice for my quieter impressionistic pieces.

I seem to recall that I had this initial impression from the audio demos as well.

The usual caveat applies, that I can't post demos of my own stuff as I haven't registered copyrights and I have a lot of placeholder parts that are just guides and unprofessional/intolerable (especially whispered vocals).

I'll be trying 280VC out on more such pieces now, and if time, some jazz later tonight (my final run).


----------



## Simeon (Feb 28, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I was just about to post this. This is a demo...THIS is the demo that should have started the thread. With no disrespect to Guy but I am wondering why the sound of this video supersedes those of the actual demos and walkthroughs? Is it the controller? I can't think of any other reason...this sounds beautiful and soon as I can, i am buying.
> 
> How much of this sound is part of the standard? How close can I get to the sound in this video without the full?


This is an amazing demo!
I took a screenshot and if you look, he is using the CONCERT SURROUND TO STEREO preset, which means this is the FULL library.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 28, 2021)

Simeon said:


> This is an amazing demo!
> I took a screenshot and if you look, he is using the CONCERT SURROUND TO STEREO preset, which means this is the FULL library.


I noticed after I asked...damn. Bit disappointed...not sure it's worth the full price (to me), but standard I would do...but I realy really like the sound in the video...all others sound too bright to me.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 28, 2021)

It's even winning out on some dense pop/rock mixes that have synths and orchestral instruments.

There's something about the timbral balance of this piano that just cuts through a dense mix and also handles softer playing with more dynamic sensitivity.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 28, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> It's even winning out on some dense pop/rock mixes that have synths and orchestral instruments.
> 
> There's something about the timbral balance of this piano that just cuts through a dense mix and also handles softer playing with more dynamic sensitivity.


standard or full?


----------



## Simeon (Feb 28, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> It's even winning out on some dense pop/rock mixes that have synths and orchestral instruments.
> 
> There's something about the timbral balance of this piano that just cuts through a dense mix and also handles softer playing with more dynamic sensitivity.


Spot on! When doing my initial tests and play-through it just has a versatility about it. I think it the combination of this particular piano in Stage B, they just seem to be a great fit.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 28, 2021)

Jake, for the dense pop/rock tune, I used my "Tight Studio" preset, which uses Condenser, Tube, Mid1 and Mid2 mics. Not sure off-hand if those are all in Standard Edition or not.

I had to close every application except Digital Performer, increase its buffer to 4096, and Synchron Piano's to 8192 for pre-load, and turn off all other tracks during final rendering of my take (I usually record MIDI every time, just in case), as my solo on this song is very dynamic and dense, along the line of Elton John during the Goodbye Yellow Brick Road era.

This is the first time I've had to take such drastic measures with a Synchron Piano library, but so far only in this one context.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 28, 2021)

Simeon, I agree completely. For projects where the Synchron Stage isn't necessarily the best fit, Stage B is so versatile that it blends with almost anything.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 28, 2021)

Back on the theme of how each new addition to Synchron Pianos helps refine the use of the earlier releases, I just used the Yamaha CFX on a final take for the first time, having figured out why I couldn't get the right cut-through and brightness based on what I did for my 280VC presets.

So this is one dense pop/rock tune where the Yamaha won out over the 280VC, but only because it is a synth-laden tune where the piano does nothing more than basic sustained chordal backing. The natural compression of Yamaha pianos works perfectly in such a context; whereas normally this aspect of Yamahas is why I detest them, and why I have usually found other piano models I prefer even in most pop/rock contexts.

The CFX was recorded on the Synchron Stage, which is probably also why it works well in pop/rock stuff where the overall sound of the mix is "big" but not necessarily super-dynamic and nuanced or intimate as is Stage B.

I am now down to just four songs (out of several hundred) where a Synchron Piano is not yet my piano choice. All are jazz, but not straight-ahead style so they do pose some interesting challenges. I am now eager to see whether the 280VC is the ticket on these final holdouts!


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 28, 2021)

Good news so far on the jazz front: the 280VC in my Chamber setting finally gave me the sound I'd had in my head all along, for a piece I wrote in 2004(?) called "Take Six", which is inspired by Paul Desmond's "Take Five" but is in 6/4 time.

In this piece, the piano solely plays a backing role, comping rhythmically alongside a left-hand bass that is different from the upright bass part. With the 280VC, I get a three-dimensional sound that has distinct left-hand and right-hand movement and both sounds and feels like a real pianist in the middle of a jazz combo. None of the other pianos I had tried over the years did that for me!

Now I am glad that the pandemic threw me off by a year (I was on the verge of releasing several albums last March when I suddenly became unemployed for the first time in my life, and now I am out of a job for the second time in my life). I had tentatively posted a near-final mix and had gotten thumbs-up from everyone, but they're going to be blown away by how much better it sounds now with the new 280VC piano model!

Three more jazz tunes to go, and then I'm a 100% Synchron Piano guy.


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 28, 2021)

I have now switched two of my jazz tunes from D274 to 280VC. Unless VSL give us a Steinway B on the B Stage later on, it will be difficult to know whether the 280VC is just that great and versatile of a piano, or whether that stage is more versatile when throwing a piano into a jazz mix.

The articulation and note separation as well as distinctness of parts, is just so sharp with the 280VC. But I may also need to tweak my D274 settings to see if I can reach those same levels of clarity.

I do love the D274 and sold my other Steinway libraries, but Steinway has never been my VERY favourite piano anyway; that award goes to Mason & Hamlin (regarding personal playing experience). More and more, the 280VC is reminding me of the M&H mid-size series.


----------



## PaulieDC (Feb 28, 2021)

Ben said:


> My personal advice: If your budget allows it, go for the Standard Library of both, and upgrade these later. This way you can choose which sound is best for your current project


Our beloved Ben of VSL, I must heartily disagree. My advice is to jump headfirst as fast as possible into the full library for the new 280VC. You guys so nailed it with this one, and you absolutely have to have the two Neumann M149s, those tube mics are stupid amazing in this library. Go big or go home. I’m still trying to figure out how to fit into my budget, LOL!


----------



## PaulieDC (Feb 28, 2021)

Simeon said:


> Spot on! When doing my initial tests and play-through it just has a versatility about it. I think it the combination of this particular piano in Stage B, they just seem to be a great fit.


I’ve discovered that I’m a huge fan of Stage B, the libraries recorded there SING. Does VSL have a chamber strings library from that room?


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 28, 2021)

Near the end of my review! So excited by how good the 280VC sounds on my "big band" arrangement of Chick Corea's "Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy", which has a very challenging piano part that changes in character around twenty times or more during the duration of the piece.

I had a little trouble deciding between my "Tight Studio" setting and my "Chamber" setting, but ultimately settled on the latter, as I find that using the surround mics brings dimensionality, clarity, articulateness, and note separation, to the mid-range.

Disengaging the extra mics can give slightly more heft to the lower register, but in the context of a large group, that can even be a bit too much at times. Using Condenser, Tube, Mid 2, and Surround, seems the magic combination for so many projects!

I use a bit of the Reverb on this model as well (usually I skip it). The Reverb Channel with Plate Reverb engaged, and the Reverb Effect at the right-hand side. Just a hair of both, but it helps glue all the mics together.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 28, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Jake, for the dense pop/rock tune, I used my "Tight Studio" preset, which uses Condenser, Tube, Mid1 and Mid2 mics. Not sure off-hand if those are all in Standard Edition or not.
> 
> I had to close every application except Digital Performer, increase its buffer to 4096, and Synchron Piano's to 8192 for pre-load, and turn off all other tracks during final rendering of my take (I usually record MIDI every time, just in case), as my solo on this song is very dynamic and dense, along the line of Elton John during the Goodbye Yellow Brick Road era.
> 
> This is the first time I've had to take such drastic measures with a Synchron Piano library, but so far only in this one context.


Thanks for the reply. Not sure I’d be interested though to alter the buffer so drastically. I work in 48k so my highest is 1024. And at that size it would be unplayable with latency. Or did you mean just on playback?


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Feb 28, 2021)

I work exclusively in 96k except when tracking live drums (for those projects I use 48k, but I don't do all that much rock music so this is a small fraction of my overall work).

The buffer increase was required for recording. I had to do it once more after that as well, shutting down Apple Mail and anything else running plus all playback tracks. It too was a "difficult" track that had lots of note clusters. I set everything to max inside Synchron Pianos to avoid any possibility of note-stealing. But I also got smoother results with the higher pre-load settings in Synchron Pianos -- only in a few places though, as otherwise before-and-after takes null-summed.

Under most circumstances, I don't think any of that would be necessary. I just happen to write pretty complex parts now and then. Sometimes when I'm playing live though, my pedaling is off or I have some stray notes, so I clean those up in the MIDI and re-render, as those kinds of things can also trip things up and are unintentional anyway. Max polyphony can get hit quickly with sustain on.


----------



## jaketanner (Feb 28, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I work exclusively in 96k except when tracking live drums (for those projects I use 48k, but I don't do all that much rock music so this is a small fraction of my overall work).
> 
> The buffer increase was required for recording. I had to do it once more after that as well, shutting down Apple Mail and anything else running plus all playback tracks. It too was a "difficult" track that had lots of note clusters. I set everything to max inside Synchron Pianos to avoid any possibility of note-stealing. But I also got smoother results with the higher pre-load settings in Synchron Pianos -- only in a few places though, as otherwise before-and-after takes null-summed.
> 
> Under most circumstances, I don't think any of that would be necessary. I just happen to write pretty complex parts now and then. Sometimes when I'm playing live though, my pedaling is off or I have some stray notes, so I clean those up in the MIDI and re-render, as those kinds of things can also trip things up and are unintentional anyway. Max polyphony can get hit quickly with sustain on.


Thanks. Gonna think about this one.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Feb 28, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> Our beloved Ben of VSL, I must heartily disagree. My advice is to jump headfirst as fast as possible into the full library for the new 280VC. You guys so nailed it with this one, and you absolutely have to have the two Neumann M149s, those tube mics are stupid amazing in this library. Go big or go home. I’m still trying to figure out how to fit into my budget, LOL!



Go big or go home.  Never heard that expression, like it.


----------



## Guy Bacos (Mar 1, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> I was just about to post this. This is a demo...THIS is the demo that should have started the thread. With no disrespect to Guy but I am wondering why the sound of this video supersedes those of the actual demos and walkthroughs? Is it the controller? I can't think of any other reason...this sounds beautiful and soon as I can, i am buying.
> 
> How much of this sound is part of the standard? How close can I get to the sound in this video without the full?



Jake, the idea of making demos and screencasts is not to aim *one* particular taste, if Frantisek Janoska's demo (and he is an excellent virtuoso pianist), is the sound you are looking for, it's great for you, however other people may look for something different (than Jake Tanner's taste) , no disrespect. This is why the screencasts goes through all kinds of ways to accommodate as many areas as possible and explains the flexibility of the Vienna Synchron Player to match your needs.


----------



## artinro (Mar 1, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I do love the D274 and sold my other Steinway libraries, but Steinway has never been my VERY favourite piano anyway; that award goes to Mason & Hamlin (regarding personal playing experience). More and more, the 280VC is reminding me of the M&H mid-size series.



Ah, so nice to see a fellow Mason & Hamlin lover. Agreed. Would love see a VX sampled by VSL at some point.


----------



## jaketanner (Mar 1, 2021)

Guy Bacos said:


> Jake, the idea of making demos and screencasts is not to aim *one* particular taste, if Frantisek Janoska's demo (and he is an excellent virtuoso pianist), is the sound you are looking for, it's great for you, however other people may look for something different (than Jake Tanner's taste) , no disrespect. This is why the screencasts goes through all kinds of ways to accommodate as many areas as possible and explains the flexibility of the Vienna Synchron Player to match your needs.


I agree it's flexible and I am referring merely about the sound. 

But tastes aside...There HAS to be a difference there and I still can't quite place my finger on what it is. I see the mics he is using, but the sound is just different. I know we covered this before, so don't want to derail the thread. I will most likely get it later today (because of the flexibility)


----------



## Robert_G (Mar 1, 2021)

I bought this yesterday. I figured I'd demo it for 14 days. I'm thinking that I don't want to give it back.


----------



## PaulieDC (Mar 1, 2021)

WelshMikey said:


> Thought I posted this earlier but apparently I didn't press.post:
> 
> To the best of my knowledge if you post to YouTube there is unlikely to be any issue. If you make a cover song and YouTube identifies any copyrighted parts it notifies the copyright holder who can do one of three things:
> 
> ...


"*2) Obtain advertising revenue from your video*"

Is that what it means when someone says "YouTube de-monetized my video"?


----------



## PaulieDC (Mar 1, 2021)

I can purchase the Full 280VC if:

The dollar/euro exchange climbs back to its pre-COVID 0.93 or more
-and-
VSL decides to have a one-day "40% off all pianos, just because" sale
Sigh. I'll probably have more success trying to get toothpaste back into its tube.


----------



## WelshMikey (Mar 1, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> "*2) Obtain advertising revenue from your video*"
> 
> Is that what it means when someone says "YouTube de-monetized my video"?


I believe so


----------



## CGR (Mar 3, 2021)

Just saw this at Piano World Forum:

_On the SYNCHRON PIANOS software front, we have a few great new features to offer:

Smooth Attack feature (PLAY View)
Velocity Map Editor with integrated Velocity Histogram (EDIT View)
Half Pedal Editor (EDIT View)

Also:
Improved: Cleaned up some GUI elements
Fixed: Insert FX windows could sometimes pop outside of screen
Fixed: Sympathetic Resonance not applied on all close channels on some piano models
Fixed: EQ parameters on Edit page are not correctly rounded

Enjoy!

Best,
Paul_

Product Manager
Vienna Symphonic Library
www.vsl.co.at


----------



## Ben (Mar 3, 2021)

CGR said:


> Just saw this at Piano World Forum:
> 
> _On the SYNCHRON PIANOS software front, we have a few great new features to offer:
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting it here 

Just as a quick guide for the velocity editor:
- double click to create new node
- ctrl + click node to delete it
- Right-click to Reset, save, load velocity curve settings

The settings are stored in your custom instrument presets by default, but you can also save and recall the curve settings to/from a file.


----------



## jaketanner (Mar 3, 2021)

Ben said:


> Thanks for posting it here
> 
> Just as a quick guide for the velocity editor:
> - double click to create new node
> ...


Is this something that was just added to the 280 VC or to older pianos?


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Mar 3, 2021)

The notes that I saw indicated the full range, but I may be confusing with the bugfixes that cover most of the models -- now I definitely need to re-render a bunch of tracks to make sure I get the best takes (good thing I always record MIDI rather than just audio!).

I had also missed an earlier Yamaha-only update that fixed some bugs. It isn't trivial, keeping track of VSL updates and which ones got missed if one checks later on. It would be nice if there was some status feature in the helper apps (or even on our accounts page) that flagged what we'd already downloaded and/or installed. This would also help avoid unnecessary burdens on the VSL servers.

At any rate, I look forward to re-doing my 280VC parts soon (hopefully tomorrow) and comparing to see if there are any noticeable differences. Not sure I'll bother editing the new parameters though, until I enter a new part from scratch.


----------



## SupremeFist (Mar 3, 2021)

jaketanner said:


> Is this something that was just added to the 280 VC or to older pianos?


Works with all the Synchron pianos! An excellent update, thanks VSL. 🤘🏻


----------



## CGR (Mar 4, 2021)

I updated the Synchron Pianos Player today and loaded up the Bluthner. The new velocity controls have allowed a noticeable improvement with response and feel. A greatly appreciated update


----------



## Evans (Mar 4, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> It isn't trivial, keeping track of VSL updates and which ones got missed if one checks later on.


Yep.


----------



## harmaes (Mar 4, 2021)

CGR said:


> I updated the Synchron Pianos Player today and loaded up the Bluthner. The new velocity controls have allowed a noticeable improvement with response and feel. A greatly appreciated update


The new Smooth Attack is also great to reduce percussiveness.
For half pedalling I have to experiment how the range is set best. Have you already tried that?


----------



## FireGS (Mar 4, 2021)

Damn, the lack of velocity curves was something that was holding me back on these... damn....


----------



## harmaes (Mar 5, 2021)

Maybe a general question would be is how you've used the half pedalling in the Synchron piano player before and what the improvement in the new version of the player adds to this? How do you use the range?


----------



## keepitsimple (Mar 5, 2021)

I posted some presets for the 280VC here if anyone interested : 






Synchron Pianos User Patches - Page 3 - Synchron Libraries - FORUMS - Vienna Symphonic Library


Yet Another Forum.NET -- A bulletin board system written in ASP.NET




www.vsl.co.at


----------



## Mark Schmieder (Mar 5, 2021)

I'll try to post mine soon as well -- I need to review them all due to the improvements made in the engine this week by VSL, and I'll be deciding whether to bake in (so to speak) any tweaks of the new features or whether those are too specific to each person's controller.

It will be interesting to see what you came up with for your own presets, as I found myself making different choices for the 280VC than for the others, and then going back to the others and doing some fairly subtle tweaks based on what I learned with the 280VC.


----------



## keepitsimple (Apr 7, 2021)

Call me insane but i've been inspired the most with the 280 when i lower the timbre to -7! Go figure. Dynamics -> volume is still fine with that setting except the notes on the very top octave losing definition. But i don't care!


----------



## Soundbed (Jun 17, 2021)

I finished my SLR review (finally). 









Review: Bösendorfer 280VC by Vienna Symphonic Library - Sample Library Review


The VSL Bösendorfer 280VC distinguishes itself as possibly the most versatile, clear, dynamic grand piano you can buy. Jump to the Videos of Bösendorfer 280VC by Vienna Symphonic Library Jump to the Demos of Bösendorfer 280VC by Vienna Symphonic Library Review: Bösendorfer 280VC by Vienna...




www.samplelibraryreview.com





Thanks @donbodin


----------



## CGR (Jun 17, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> I finished my SLR review (finally).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent review! I've just upgraded to the full version of the 280VC so this was a very informative and detailed overview. Lovely articulate playing too, demonstrating the various mic mixes beautifully. Great work


----------



## sostenuto (Jun 17, 2021)

Will re-download and revisit while Demo 280VC is still active. No clue why SSD-based samples would glitch /dropout. Was headed to IS _ Walnut Grand - Complete, but will take time to sort needs /wants vs choices. Definitely individual factors to consider, one of which is discretionary $$.


----------



## SupremeFist (Jun 18, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Will re-download and revisit while Demo 280VC is still active. No clue why SSD-based samples would glitch /dropout.


Try increasing the max voices (overall and per-mic); that helped me with other VSL pianos.


----------



## Soundbed (Jun 18, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> No clue why SSD-based samples would glitch /dropout.


If you're referring to my comment in the video, it was my "spinning disk" that had the dropouts. Everything was fine after I switched to SSD.

I wanted to make clear to people that VSL list the requirements for the types of drives to use. I didn't follow then in my initial haste to review the piano (my bad) and had some issues on a spinning drive (2TB 5,400RPM HDD).


----------



## re-peat (Jun 18, 2021)

CGR said:


> Excellent review!


Can’t say I agree, Craig. It’s one of those typical SLR reviews that adheres strictly to the Bodin Manifesto wherein it is written: “Whatever you say or write, don’t do anything that might even remotely upset the developer.”

I know this is a Commercial Announcement thread and all that, meaning that doubts or misgivings about the product under discussion should be kept to oneself, so I apologize in advance for what follows, but I am testdriving the 280VC at the moment and, within minutes, my ears stumbled upon something that bothers me a bit: in the C2 octave (or C3-octave, if you follow the Roland-standard), there’s a couple of notes — A#2 is quite bad, for example — that, while not exactly suffering from explicit phasing, have a certain something in their sound which is, to my ears, very reminiscent of phase issues.

Here’s *three minutes of me playing the 280VC* (using very neutral settings: a combination of the Condenser, the Mid1 and the Main, without any delay on any of the mics, and no other edits or timbre shift either) — in other words: a fair setting (there’s no EQ’ing or any other processing either) — and to my ears, there is something wrong with this sound. Like I said, it’s never blatant phasing, but phasing is definitely never far away: a certain suggestion of liquid hollowness which I don’t like.

A pity, cause apart from this one issue, the 280VC is quite nice.

_


----------



## sostenuto (Jun 18, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Can’t say I agree, Craig. It’s one of those typical SLR reviews that adheres strictly to the Bodin Manifesto wherein it is written: “Whatever you say or write, don’t do anything that might even remotely upset the developer.”
> 
> I know this is a Commercial Announcement thread and all that, meaning that doubts or misgivings about the product under discussion should be kept to oneself, so I apologize in advance for what follows, but I am testdriving the 280VC at the moment and, within minutes, my ears stumbled upon something that bothers me a bit: in the C2 octave (or C3-octave, if you follow the Roland-standard), there’s a couple of notes — A#2 is quite bad, for example — that, while not exactly suffering from explicit phasing, have a certain something in their sound which is, to my ears, very reminiscent of phase issues.
> 
> ...


Appreciate such focused, objective comment with example of issues noted. Will be impressive to see Replies dealing with thee specifics, especially from VSL.
Personal perspective is neutered by aging ears _ and how well this audio system presents your recording.
Considering 280VC carefully at this time.


----------



## Soundbed (Jun 18, 2021)

re-peat said:


> a combination of the Condenser, the Mid1 and the Main


did you notice if it was one of those mics in particular or (only) the combination of them? if the combination at those mix levels, then one might say the ability of the Synchron Piano player to invert phase and introduce delay might be an advantage 🤷🏻‍♂️

I'd especially be interested in hearing if the issue persists for you in the Main (only).



re-peat said:


> a certain suggestion of liquid hollowness which I don’t like


would you say this was a relatively "acute" problem with a couple pitches and a certain mic mix, or, a more "chronic" issue affecting the entire instrument and all mics to some degree?

another way of asking; can you find a different mic mix that sounds more pleasant to your ears?

I know that I personally was enjoying the Tube Mic and Mid2 (from the Full version) a little more than the Condenser Mic and Mid1 ... I wasn't putting my finger on why exactly, maybe a bit more "full" ness?


----------



## sostenuto (Jun 20, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Try increasing the max voices (overall and per-mic); that helped me with other VSL pianos.


THX ! Labored thru another full 280VC dnld /install. All OK, yet will try increasing max voices while evaluating. This time, definitely single Reaper Track. May have been careless previously and loaded with other piano(s) ?? 
This also clears concerns re. purchasing Vienna Imperial (mainly to audition _ based on Refund policy).
_Missed earlier Demo window._ 

Regards


----------



## SupremeFist (Jun 22, 2021)

I demo'd the 280VC and decided I still prefer my Synchron Imperial: the 280VC seems a tad harder and brighter for my taste, and I can get a close & warm enough sound with the mics of the Imperial Full library that I'm not at all bothered by the difference in room size. So not one for me, but kudos to VSL for letting us demo them! I'll probably buy the next one.


----------



## ptram (Jun 22, 2021)

I heard that if Austria wins the football match with Italy, next Saturday, VSL will be allowed to sample a Fazioli!

Paolo


----------



## Stephen Limbaugh (Jun 22, 2021)

Working on a new 280VC preset... anyone want to take it for a spin? What are you all hearing?






iCloud


Sign in to iCloud to access your photos, videos, documents, notes, contacts, and more. Use your Apple ID or create a new account to start using Apple services.




www.icloud.com


----------



## smellypants (Jul 7, 2021)

I wanna get this, is the Synchron player available as a standalone app or only vst etc.


----------



## Dietz (Jul 7, 2021)

smellypants said:


> I wanna get this, is the Synchron player available as a standalone app or only vst etc.


There's a stand-alone version, too.


----------



## cygnusdei (Jul 7, 2021)

ptram said:


> I heard that if Austria wins the football match with Italy, next Saturday, VSL will be allowed to sample a Fazioli!
> 
> Paolo


But they may only call it 'Italian Grand'  
(see UVI's 'Austrian Grand')


----------



## smellypants (Jul 7, 2021)

Dietz said:


> There's a stand-alone version, too.


Great thanks!


----------

