# EW Composer Cloud Licence After Cancellation



## Daniel James (Nov 17, 2015)

Hey guys,

I am curious to what the license of the EW CC is after one cancels their subscription? say for example you register for a month write a library album and then cancel....are you good to go, or are there hidden prohibited uses? 

Cheers for any light you can share on this!

-DJ


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## catsass (Nov 17, 2015)

_From the FAQ

What happens to my compositions if I cancel my membership?

Nothing will happen to your compositions if you cancel. Anything composed during your membership will be yours to use as you choose forever. You simply won’t be able to access the instruments as before to create new compositions. We suggest you render (bounce) the instruments in your compositions to your digital audio workstation before any cancellation._


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 17, 2015)

Exactly. Any music you created while you were subscribed is yours but any projects you created will no longer load Play, so it is vital that you bounce to audio before you cancel.


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## Daniel James (Nov 17, 2015)

Sweet and can you register, cancel then re register down the line when you need the instruments?

-DJ


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 17, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> Sweet and can you register, cancel then re register down the line when you need the instruments?
> 
> -DJ


I believe so.


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## catsass (Nov 17, 2015)

There appears to be some sort of Daniel James clause in the fine print. Something about Jennifer Lawrence, Pepsi Cola, and shaved heads.


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## Daniel James (Nov 17, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> I believe so.



Thanks Jay! is that a definitive answer? like I could quote it down the line?

@catsass: Few I have those covered at least!

-DJ


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 17, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> Thanks Jay! is that a definitive answer? like I could quote it down the line?
> 
> @catsass: Few I have those covered at least!
> 
> -DJ




Let me check.


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 17, 2015)

Yes, you can come and go as you please, minimum is one month.


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## Daniel James (Nov 17, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> Yes, you can come and go as you please, minimum is one month.



Thanks mate. Hell for that price even I will give PLAY another shot xD

-DJ


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 17, 2015)

And you don’t need to re register you just turn on or off auto renewal on your ‘my account’ page.


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## Pietro (Nov 17, 2015)

There's still that extra cost after giving up on subsription, right? The 50% of what's missing till the full years subscription.

Or has it changed? Everyone would be so happy if they could just pay for a month and then cancel renewal without a "punishment", until they need it again. I would pay.

- Piotr


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 17, 2015)

Pietro said:


> There's still that extra cost after giving up on subsription, right? The 50% of what's missing till the full years subscription.
> 
> Or has it changed? Everyone would be so happy if they could just pay for a month and then cancel renewal without a "punishment", until they need it again. I would pay.
> 
> - Piotr



That did indeed change, it is month to month now.


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## lpuser (Nov 17, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> That did indeed change, it is month to month now.



Wow, that´s indeed something I did not know and very nice! Thanks Jay for your feedback on this topic.


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## IFM (Nov 17, 2015)

Am I right that it is only the Gold versions?


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## Pietro (Nov 17, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> That did indeed change, it is month to month now.



Perfect, thanks!

- Piotr


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 17, 2015)

Dragonwind said:


> Am I right that it is only the Gold versions?



Yes, but there will be Composer CloudPlus released next week hopefully.
It´ll cost $699 per year. No monthly option. No download. Drive included.


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## ricoderks (Nov 17, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> Thanks mate. Hell for that price even I will give PLAY another shot xD
> 
> -DJ



Play is awesome. But it will need some time to load some of those nice patches. But imho worth the waiting  
Just load them via Vienna on a slave pc and switch projects without waiting!


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## RiffWraith (Nov 17, 2015)

catsass said:


> There appears to be some sort of Daniel James clause in the fine print. Something about Jennifer Lawrence, Pepsi Cola, and shaved heads.



DJ has dated Jennifer Lawrence? Funny, I didn't think she'd be into him....


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## RiffWraith (Nov 17, 2015)

ricoderks said:


> Play is awesome. But it will need some time to load some of those nice patches. But imho worth the waiting
> Just load them via Vienna on a slave pc and switch projects without waiting!



You don't have to have a slave; you can do the same locally, FWIW.


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## ricoderks (Nov 17, 2015)

RiffWraith said:


> You don't have to have a slave; you can do the same locally, FWIW.


Yep almost forgot: localhost ofcourse!


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## willbedford (Nov 17, 2015)

Interesting.. so could you technically pay for one month, make loads of loops/phrases, and keep using those bounced sounds after cancelling your subscription? Is there any small print that forbids that? (personal use only, of course)


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## Daniel James (Nov 17, 2015)

willbedford said:


> Interesting.. so could you technically pay for one month, make loads of loops/phrases, and keep using those bounced sounds after cancelling your subscription? Is there any small print that forbids that? (personal use only, of course)



The way its worded makes it look like you can only use the libraries for compositions, not resampling.

-DJ


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## RiffWraith (Nov 17, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> The way its worded makes it look like you can only use the libraries for compositions, not resampling.



Yeah - regardless of how it is worded, there is no way resampling would be allowed, nor legal.


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## willbedford (Nov 17, 2015)

RiffWraith said:


> Yeah - regardless of how it is worded, there is no way resampling would be allowed, nor legal.


Why not? If I buy a drum library, say HZ percussion, then record some taiko loops for later use in my OWN COMPOSITIONS, why wouldn't that be legal?


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## Daniel James (Nov 17, 2015)

RiffWraith said:


> Yeah - regardless of how it is worded, there is no way resampling would be allowed, nor legal.



Well if you buy a sample library you can resample out some loops and stuff for your own use (obviously reSELLING will always be illegal)

-DJ

p.s "DJ has dated Jennifer Lawrence? Funny, I didn't think she'd be into him" - I have a relatively decent sense of humor perhaps?


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## willbedford (Nov 17, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> The way its worded makes it look like you can only use the libraries for compositions, not resampling.
> 
> -DJ


"*Anything* composed during your membership will be yours to use *as you choose* forever"
Anything? Including a loop? What counts as a composition?

Jay - any info on this? Cheers!


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## RiffWraith (Nov 17, 2015)

willbedford said:


> Why not? If I buy a drum library, say HZ percussion, then record some taiko loops for later use in my OWN COMPOSITIONS, why wouldn't that be legal?



When I said "resampling", that was not meant to cover the situation you have described. That is not resampling. Resampling - to me, anyway - is recording the individual samples, and storing them on your HDD.

Cheers.


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## willbedford (Nov 17, 2015)

RiffWraith said:


> When I said "resampling", that was not meant to cover the situation you have described. That is not resampling. Resampling - to me, anyway - is recording the individual samples, and storing them on your HDD.
> 
> Cheers.


That isn't what I'm suggesting.


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## RiffWraith (Nov 17, 2015)

willbedford said:


> That isn't what I'm suggesting.



Never said it was.


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## Daniel James (Nov 17, 2015)

willbedford said:


> "*Anything* composed during your membership will be yours to use *as you choose* forever"
> Anything? Including a loop? What counts as a composition?
> 
> Jay - any info on this? Cheers!



In this situation its probably best to quote the whole passage: "_Nothing will happen to your *compositions* if you cancel. Anything *composed* during your membership will be yours to use as you choose forever. You simply won’t be able to access the instruments as before to create new *compositions*. We suggest you render (bounce) the instruments in your *compositions* to your digital audio workstation before any cancellation."_

Heh following your example I made bold the parts that suggest what I was getting at. This whole section is referring to compositions not re sampled loops or passages. I mean I don't know if that is allowed or not, but judging by the language used and how everything is in reference to composition, my assumption would be that you can only use the library for musical compositions. Although I can definitely see the grey area.

-DJ


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## germancomponist (Nov 17, 2015)

Daniel James said:


> ... my assumption would be that you can only use the library for musical compositions.
> 
> -DJ


This, I think, and I do understand it.


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 17, 2015)

I'm confused, Is what is being asked: "Can I bounce the parts I created to audio, cancel my subscription, then create loops from the audio and use them in other compositions?" 

Sure, I don't see why not because you composed the music and now own the audio but if someone _really_ wants to know, I will ask.

Can you then release a collection of "My Awesome Loops" and include them? No you cannot.

if I am still not understanding, let me know.


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## willbedford (Nov 17, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> Can I bounce the parts I created to audio, cancel my subscription, then create loops from the audio and use them in other compositions?


This is what I'm asking. If that is the case, great!

Of course I'm not going to release the loops to the public - just for my private library.


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## willbedford (Nov 17, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> if someone _really_ wants to know, I will ask


I _really_ want to know


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## RiffWraith (Nov 17, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> I'm confused, Is what is being asked: "Can I bounce the parts I created to audio, cancel my subscription, then create loops from the audio and use them in other compositions?"



Actually, I think it's ALSO, "can I create loops from the sample content (let's say audio files that are four-bar loops comprised of several elements), then cancel my subscription, then use those loops in other/new compositions?"

I guess what many are wondering is whether or not a four-bar loop comprised of several sample elements is deemed a composition by EW.

Cheers.


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 17, 2015)

OK, as I suspected, _any_ audio you create using the libraries is yours to use in your own compositions after you cancel.


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## germancomponist (Nov 17, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> OK, as I suspected, _any_ audio you create using the libraries is yours to use in your own compositions after you cancel.


WOW! So I can program with these sounds thousands of loops and am allowed to use it later in my new music productions?


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 17, 2015)

germancomponist said:


> WOW! So I can program with these sounds thousands of loops and am allowed to use it later in my new music productions?



Sure, you composed the music in the audio files.


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## chimuelo (Nov 17, 2015)

I can see it now.
EW has 1000 employees scouring soundcloud.
They then hire investigators to find the ISP and notify the orchestral loopers they must appear before a judge.
The judge then makes a decision based on an A/B blind tests.
Next comes the massive copyright fines or a mandatory settlement hearing.
They find the orchestral looper is broke.
Wasted thousands howver sends the proper message.

Or....orchestral loopers make loops using hpf filters trying to mask the audio file.
Experts using Algorithmix restoration software de filter the audio in realtime.

Or orchestral loopers could just break into the vault grab those crumpled 1s for 29 days in a row and support the developers.

Doubtful.


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## Daniel James (Nov 18, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> OK, as I suspected, _any_ audio you create using the libraries is yours to use in your own compositions after you cancel.



Woah thats insane and awesome...so I can really layer a couple of stormdrum loops together render it as a loop and keep using that loop after my subscription ends? Thats good for users I suppose XD

-DJ


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## willbedford (Nov 18, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> OK, as I suspected, _any_ audio you create using the libraries is yours to use in your own compositions after you cancel.


Great! I had no interest in EastWest and PLAY until now. This incentive might even lead me to buy some of your libraries down the line. In the meantime, enjoy your $30.


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## ptsmith (Nov 18, 2015)

Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. I would never exploit the monthly plan that way. I would use as it was intended to be used or I wouldn't use it at all. And even if I did, I certainly wouldn't boast about it.


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 18, 2015)

ptsmith said:


> Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. I would never exploit the monthly plan that way. I would use as it was intended to be used or I wouldn't use it at all. And even if I did, I certainly wouldn't boast about it.



Well personally I certainly wouldn't make a practice of joining, creating, bouncing, quitting, and then repeatedly doing the same thing.

But then again people do lots of things because they _can_, that I would not do


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## willbedford (Nov 18, 2015)

ptsmith said:


> Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. I would never exploit the monthly plan that way. I would use as it was intended to be used or I wouldn't use it at all. And even if I did, I certainly wouldn't boast about it.


This is why I'm making sure it's absolutely fine with the company first. If they're happy with it, so am I.

If I were dishonest or wanted to exploit EastWest, I wouldn't have asked in the first place.


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## Daniel James (Nov 18, 2015)

ptsmith said:


> Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. I would never exploit the monthly plan that way. I would use as it was intended to be used or I wouldn't use it at all. And even if I did, I certainly wouldn't boast about it.



If its something they, when asked, say is perfectly fine to do...is it exploiting? I mean if it was stretching the rules sure I can see it. But when asked a very specific direct question, to reply with an absolute yes doesnt exactly scream grey area XD

-DJ


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## ptsmith (Nov 18, 2015)

EW won't make any money by guys signing up for a month, slamming out as much work as they can, or creating stems for future projects, within that time frame and then canceling. EW does a lot of things I don't like, but they, like all other library developers, need to make money to stay in business. And we need them to stay in business. It's in our own best interest.


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## Daniel James (Nov 19, 2015)

ptsmith said:


> EW won't make any money by guys signing up for a month, slamming out as much work as they can, or creating stems for future projects, within that time frame and then canceling. EW does a lot of things I don't like, but they, like all other library developers, need to make money to stay in business. And we need them to stay in business. It's in our own best interest.



Trust me I get that and if they said they don't want people doing it I would be right along with you....but if they are specifically and directly saying what was asked is perfectly ok then it almost becomes a selling point. Based on the reaction of my chatroom on my live stream yesterday, this ability alone will be starting some new subscriptions. Maybe EW understand that most people will likely not download and resample everything in a month, they realize that people giving it a shot will likely lead to sales, they realize people who re sample might decide they want to make more samples down the road. When you stand back and look at it like that its not actually a bad idea. There are libraries I own now which I still go back to for re sampling purposes.... With the EW CC that going back will earn them another $30. So yeah I think its not such a bad idea after all.

-DJ


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## Jonathan Moray (Nov 19, 2015)

I just want to chime in and say that if I remember correctly EW didn't want this to happen at first. Because back then when you signed up you had to sign up for one year to begin with, but they recently changed it. So it seems like they are totally aware of the potential problems, like this one, but they don't care and just want to give as good of a service as they possibly can, and they are probably counting on this happening. I might be mistaken though.

Ptsmith, sure it would be better for EW if Daniel (or anyone else thinking about using this service) would become a lifetime subscriber or maybe buy the libraries, but I don't see that happening (based on what Daniel has written in the past). So if Daniel subscribes for one month then cancels it EW will probably have made more money from Daniel than they would have done otherwise. Also EW do have some great libraries so I think Daniel will be back. Maybe he'll only do one month at a time but EW will still make money from it, it's not like he's ripping them of or anything.

Hope you don't mind that I used you as an example Daniel.  Btw I think you will LOVE the Brass.


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## Daniel James (Nov 19, 2015)

Jonathan Moray said:


> I just want to chime in and say that if I remember correctly EW didn't want this to happen at first. Because back then when you signed up you had to sign up for one year to begin with, but they recently changed it. So it seems like they are totally aware of the potential problems, like this one, but they don't care and just want to give as good of a service as they possibly can, and they are probably counting on this happening. I might be mistaken though.
> 
> Ptsmith, sure it would be better for EW if Daniel (or anyone else thinking about using this service) would become a lifetime subscriber or maybe buy the libraries, but I don't see that happening (based on what Daniel has written in the past). So if Daniel subscribes for one month then cancels it EW will probably have made more money from Daniel than they would have done otherwise. Also EW do have some great libraries so I think Daniel will be back. Maybe he'll only do one month at a time but EW will still make money from it, it's not like he's ripping them of or anything.
> 
> Hope you don't mind that I used you as an example Daniel.  Btw I think you will LOVE the Brass.



Haha I don't mind you using me as an example. Like I said if they were to say they dont want people doing it then I wouldn't, but if they are fine with it then I am more than happy to do so within the confines of what the company deemed as acceptable. Again, its great for the users and I can see plenty of upsides in allowing it. Worth pointing out to those reading this who are thinking of demonizing my actions here, as I get the feeling some are revving up to do...remember I asked first and they said its totally fine so can you really think I am being un ethical when essentially, with their express permission, this is essentially a new selling point.

-DJ

p.s I already own the Brass and strings, they sound great... I just don't use them much because, well you know.


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 19, 2015)

I did indeed state that when I asked I was told that the user owned the audio after cancelling and was unrestrictedly free to use it in future compositions.

Also, just as a practical matter, as Chim satirized, I don't see how if EW said "no" there would be any way to monitor or enforce it.

Again also, if I compose e.g.a contrapuntal part with HS and HB French Horns, bounce it to audio, cut a 4 bar loop and add it to the Apple Loops in Logic Pro X to use in the future after I have cancelled my subscription, I don't see anything wrong with it.

If Doug asked my opinion, however, and he didn't and won't, I would restrict the subscribing/cancelling/subscribing /cancelling cycle to once yearly.


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## Alatar (Nov 19, 2015)

EastWest Lurker said:


> Again also, if I compose e.g.a contrapuntal part with HS and HB French Horns, bounce it to audio, cut a 4 bar loop and add it to the Apple Loops in Logic Pro X to use in the future after I have cancelled my subscription, I don't see anything wrong with it.



So what if I 
1) create a script, which renders out every single sample in all EW libraries => big WAV file
2) create a script, which automatically cuts the big wav file back into samples
3) create a script, which automatically imports the samples into Kontakt

=> Kontakt version of the EastWest suite for $30 

Where can I sign up?


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## LamaRose (Nov 19, 2015)

The free trial month includes 3 downloads, but you're apparently locked in to 3 specific libraries; can this be altered? I was hoping to evaluate HW Strings gold and see if Play plays nice on my computer; if so, I might just buy it outright.


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## EastWest Lurker (Nov 19, 2015)

Alatar said:


> So what if I
> 1) create a script, which renders out every single sample in all EW libraries => big WAV file
> 2) create a script, which automatically cuts the big wav file back into samples
> 3) create a script, which automatically imports the samples into Kontakt
> ...



Well I am sure that if some _really_ try, they can push it to the point where Doug will feel he has to change that policy 

I seem to vaguely remember there used to be a thing called "common sense."


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## benmrx (Nov 19, 2015)

Ummm. I thought that was the whole


Alatar said:


> So what if I
> 1) create a script, which renders out every single sample in all EW libraries => big WAV file
> 2) create a script, which automatically cuts the big wav file back into samples
> 3) create a script, which automatically imports the samples into Kontakt
> ...



The way I understand the conversation here is that this would NOT be OK as you're NOT creating a 'composition' with this method.


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## Jonathan Moray (Nov 19, 2015)

@Alatar 
I suspect EULA is the same for the Cloud as it is for the boxed copies, and that is that you cannot do what you described.

"You may not use the EASTWEST SOFTWARE to create sounds or other content for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product, musical instrument, or competitive product."​
This is also what they say about using loops from their libraries:

"the Audio Loops must be used in a musical context with at least two other instruments that contribute significantly to the composition; and (2) The entire Audio Loop cannot be left exposed at any time in the composition. If you have any doubt a composition or soundtrack by you meets the foregoing criteria, you may submit the composition to [email protected] for written approval. Please do not send audio or MP3 files, send us a link to your composition on your web server."​
I can't find it now, but I though they said something similar to using their multi-sampled instruments, not just the loops. But I must have been mistaken, which is good.


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## Alatar (Nov 19, 2015)

Jonathan Moray said:


> @Alatar
> "You may not use the EASTWEST SOFTWARE to create sounds or other content for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product, musical instrument, or competitive product."​



Ah, OK. Makes sense. Would be too good to be true otherwise


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## einei (Nov 21, 2015)

does anyone know if your DAW has to be online when you use the library?


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## MarcelM (Nov 22, 2015)

you only have to be online once a month to renew the machine license, so no you dont have to be online.


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