# Don't laugh ...it's a test ;-)



## musicpete (Apr 1, 2008)

Nice test! Care to describe what is so special about this one? 

I really liked the overall sound! You are ble to nail the imitation of "airy" sound of a real recording. Amazing!

IMHO the strings themselves are not completely convincing:

* The staccati seem to be a tiny bit more dominant than the long notes, the balance just doesn't fall in place perfectly.

* The staccati are way too weak and lack grit (a common problem with all string libs I heard until today). You did your best to tweak the attack, but it still sounds more like "ua ua ua" than "ta! ta! ta!" or the desired "da! da!". The only string library which seems to have more grit (at least according to the demos) is String Essentials 2. Maybe you could try layering some of that?

That being said: It sounds better than most other string mockups I heard.


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## nikolas (Apr 1, 2008)

Yes, do share what is the test about. Otherwise it seems like... an mp3 (can't think right now who is the composer, and from what movie, but anyhow).

I don't recognise the library so it must not be EW then! :D Yes the staccati are a bit weak, but it actually sounds very good in my ears. And I particularly like the reverb and the placement in "space".


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## musicpete (Apr 1, 2008)

Nice to see, that we agree, Nikolas! 

By the way: That cue is from "Psycho" and the strings in the original are really, really cutting and gritty. I find it interesting that SvK got sharper strings in his earlier demos (Action revisited).


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## SvK (Apr 1, 2008)

I fixed it!!!

Go to same link and DL "SvK_Motels5.mp3.zip"

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/wa/default?user=svonkampen&templatefn=FileSharing1.html&xmlfn=TKDocument.1.xml&sitefn=RootSite.xml&aff=consumer&cty=US&lang=en (http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/File ... US&amp;lang=en)

(3d from bottom)

SvK


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## gregjazz (Apr 1, 2008)

Hahah, do I remember this music! You gotta do those string shrieks too. 

What string sounds are these? They sound great!


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## SvK (Apr 2, 2008)

Greg....thanx!

Vienna Apassionatta (for body parts)
Vienna Pro Strings (for bite parts)

IR's

Altiverb's version of:

Todd AO (3m ER, 8m ER, 12m ER)
TOdd AO (3m Tail, 8m Tail, 12m Tail)

ERs and Tails are on seperate Altiverb instances for greater control...

SvK


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## musicpete (Apr 2, 2008)

I don't know.... The "room sound" is even better now... amazing!

However the Violins are now drowned out by the Cellos and Violas. And the attacks are still weak ("ua ua ua ua" instead of "da! da! da!"), however they are a little better than in the previous version.

I think this may be a problem inherent to the VSL libraries (and Sonivox, and QLSO, don't get me started about the Kirk Hunter stuff..... The staccati are laughable weak). They seem to have recorded very soft staccati which you can tweak only to a certain degree.


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## Rob Elliott (Apr 3, 2008)

I will say I do LOVE the sound of the room. Todd AO with Altiverb is the cat's meow! :D 


Of course we are referencing a cue that has been around for ever and recorded by a top notch 'live' ensemble. Had this been your cue (new) - the Director would have gotten on the table and did a dance of joy - IMHO.


Nice work SvK.


Rob


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## musicpete (Apr 3, 2008)

I totally agree with Rob! This is a great mockup, but unfortunately you seem to have hit the limits of currently available sample libs.

Try using SE2 staccati, in the demos they sound much better than VSL. I'd love to hear what you can do with them.


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## Rob Elliott (Apr 3, 2008)

I have all the VSL strings but have been 'eyeballing' the SE2 library. Anyone have both and does SE2 fill in any gaps (in addition to the staccs)?


Rob


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## SvK (Apr 3, 2008)

Thanx guys,

The problem is four-fold .... 

you need at least 5 to 9 repetitions per velocity layer...NOT round-robbin as pattern becomes noticable to the listner. However if you do decide to have round-robbin then, If the number of notes of the stacccatto riff is even, the number of repetitions should be odd, and vice-verse (this will make a pattern far less obvious.)

In addition there need to be circa 3 staccatto layers of smaller numbers of violins, to attempt to address start offsets to simulate that 20 players will not play exactly at the same time....no where is that more of a give away than at a riff of this speed.....

and lastly.....the slurs, blahblahblah

SvK


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## Christian Marcussen (Apr 3, 2008)

I like the sound as well. 

Btw do you use the placement options in AV or only pan (or do you combine?)


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## SvK (Apr 3, 2008)

Christian....I'm not using ANY of that placement stuff in altiverb.........

I'm simply narrowing the stems and panning them.....

Here is the kicker 

The Reverb tails (not the early reflection) of the Violins is panned fairly drastically to the RIGHT......and the tails for the Celli/Basses, is panned fairly dracrically to the left!

This way you can "swamp" the violins in verb, because the left side where the violins dominate is fairly dry.......vice versa for the celli-basses....

SvK


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## Christian Marcussen (Apr 3, 2008)

Ok. 

I don't have the recordings but aren't the strings panned even further in that?

Anyway I ask because I have been listening to loads of scores and things are panned far further than I can acheive - and this is no matter if I use AV placement or panning. 

So I'm experiementing with all kinds of crazy stuff to try match the recordings. 

Would you agree that using Todd AO you can't pan things far enough to match the pans of for instance Jerry Goldsmith recordings?

It's pissing me off.


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## mixolydian (Apr 3, 2008)

Sounds pretty good.


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## Rob Elliott (Apr 3, 2008)

SvK @ Thu Apr 03 said:


> Christian....I'm not using ANY of that placement stuff in altiverb.........
> 
> I'm simply narrowing the stems and panning them.....
> 
> ...




I like this 'swamping - panning idea'. Do you do this only on fast strings material?


Rob


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## SvK (Apr 3, 2008)

Rob......

No for everything....

SvK


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## SvK (Apr 3, 2008)

So to be clear:

1) Pan the dry violins to the LEFT (in Logic -14)

2) Send the violins to the 3m Todd AO tail (swamp them)

3) Pan the 3m Tail Buss to the RIGHT (in Logic +25)


For the Celli / Basses.....it's the same procedure reversed.....So Pan Celli dry to the RIGHT and their tails to the LEFT......BUT tu are sending to the 12m Todd AO tail.....

IMPORTANT: Turn OFF the Early Reflections in the Altiverbs............Early reflections should live on SEPERATE altiverb instances......Since they should NOT be panned.....

SvK


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## sunnykim (Jan 29, 2010)

SvK @ Thu Apr 03 said:


> So to be clear:
> 
> 1) Pan the dry violins to the LEFT (in Logic -14)
> 
> ...



SvK, 
First of all, I'd much appreciate for sharing the valuable tips. Can I ask more?

1. It seems like you use 12m ER and TAIL for string basses. Right?
I assumed it should be 3m ER and TAIL as your logic. I'd like to know why.

2. So, do you use more than 3 instances AV for TAILS?
You say TAILS should be panned. i.e. tails for basses to be drastically left panned.
What about other instruments like Woods and percussions?

3. To make sure, in logic, I have to use post pan to adjust the tail's pan. Otherwise, post fader. Correct?

4. You mentions about pre delay. For this, is it right to adjust the knob just next to TAIL in Altiverb?

You comments would be appreciated. :D


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