# Advice on orchestral scoring



## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2014)

Hi there, Im currenly trying to study orchestral scoring.

I wondered if anyone knew a good resourse such as a dvd series or something which goes into detail on all instruments and how theyre played, how to write for them, different orchestral styles, arrangement techniques, any rules and limits ect.Basically a comprehensive tutorial on orchestral composing to programming.

I watch tutorials all the time but rarely find anything teaching the nature of orchestral composition almost like a long documentary series. Any pointers would be amazing. Thanks!


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## clarkus (Jul 17, 2014)

1) Northern Sounds has the Rimky-Korsakov book online with audio examples:

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration-On-line (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/for ... on-On-line)

This is a standard text & still very useful, especially ( I think ) for film composers, who often write in the romantic tradition. The fact that they (Northern Sounds) went to the trouble to put it up here, chapter by chapter & do what they did with the examples is just wonderful.

2) I know you are asking about DVD's. I would expect someone out there is selling something, but a lot of us learned by a combination of

- book 

-teacher

- doing

3) There are standard orchestration books. Blatter is one of the better ones & a used edition can be had from Amazon pretty cheaply. I always found orchestration texts easy to read compared to most books about music. It's the kind of information that really lives well in a book & most composers find these things a useful resource when they (for example) forget what clef the bassoon uses in the upper register.

The Samuel Adler book is also good, and though I see no evidence of it, if you poke around you may find someone selling the CD's that came with various editions that have audio examples to go with the book. I have these and have used them & they're great. Listening to orchestral music on a good system is important (and terrific fun, too), but these Cd's are valuable in a different way: they give you the isolated sound of instruments and combinations of instruments doing specialized, idiomatic things that are hard to pull out of an orchestra recording. 

4) Make friends with good musicians and ask if you can come by & talk to them about their instrument. You'd be surprised. Most will make time (practicing gets lonely!) and show you some of their favorite pieces & allow you to ask questions, of course. I have several notebooks labeled "Tuba" "Clarinet" and so on, and I learned some things there that stuck with me & are useful.

5) If you like, PM me at this Forum. I teach composition & sometimes do it online. 

Best -

Clark Suprynowicz
Berkeley, Ca.


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2014)

thanks for going into quite a bit of detail, I will look up those books and consider buying a copy. Some great advice there.

I do like a long running video series though, reminds me of being back in lectures at uni and making notes. Miss all that, enjoyable way to learn.

Maybe Ill get in touch but considering how much I need to learn, Id probably pester you all day lol


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Jul 17, 2014)

The orchestration books will probably be a good start but there are several online orchestration and film scoring courses available. The first ones to come to mind are Berklee, Thinkspace, Orchestration Online, and Film Music Institute. 

Orchestration Online has an amazing page recommending books for orchestration, notation, and theory

http://orchestrationonline.com/resources/books/


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## d.healey (Jul 17, 2014)

I suggest this forum: http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=13

And watch Mike Verta's videos!


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## Izolus (Jul 17, 2014)

There are many ways (I might even say too many ) but one good way is to find an orchestral piece you're a big fan of, try and get a hold of the sheets and analyse the piece. I did that with Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony and it's already taught me a lot.

Also there are a lot of useful videos on youtube that can teach you. 

For example https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqR22EoucCyccs5J639SCefaM7mD9dMSz is a collection of musicians talking about their instruments for 4-8 minutes.

Also check out Cinesamples Composer's Workshop playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBJhxpLkn6a6fgCfDZYOuGKLC_nbj8Dsg which is very in-depth and informative, however there are only 8 videos so far.

Orchestration Online also has a really useful youtube channel you should check out.

Also I think good advice is just to dive into it. You can often learn the most from your mistakes so go out there, make mistakes and learn from them .


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## ed buller (Jul 17, 2014)

can u read music ?

if so get a copy of pictures at an exhibition . Get a recording of the piano ( ashkenazy is ace ) and the orchestral version. Study both...A bar at a time. 

a textbook example of orchestration.


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2014)

thanks everyone, lots to think about and thanks for all the links. Those instrument guides are brilliant.

Im currently studying music theory and leaning to play keys which I think is the most important thing. Its going slowly though, Id rather be in the studio making music than getting frustrated learning piano.

Thanks again


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## clarkus (Jul 17, 2014)

Hi, Matt -

Piano skills are useful. Persevere!


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## Dan Drebing (Jul 21, 2014)

Izolus @ Thu Jul 17 said:


> There are many ways (I might even say too many ) but one good way is to find an orchestral piece you're a big fan of, try and get a hold of the sheets and analyse the piece. I did that with Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony and it's already taught me a lot.



I recently got a copy of the full score to a film whose music I love, and I have been having so much fun listening and following along. This has been really encouraging to me because it shows that there's no hocus pocus black magic needed to write great music- you just have to put the right notes down. Granted, it's hard to "see" the brilliance of what's going on without knowing a lot of theory (I definitely don't yet) and the whole of brilliant music is greater than the sum of its parts, but I think it's a good way to start to learn.

Also, learning about "exotic" scales helped me stop writing boring, repetitive pop music that had nothing interesting harmonically going on at all. You'll start to hear familiar sounds from film music / 20th century romantic music once you start exploring outside of just maj/min keys. Developing your keyboard skills will help you avoid the simple chord changes that create boring music.


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## The Darris (Jul 21, 2014)

I agree with clarkus' recommendations and would also suggest another approach which is useful.

Listen to an orchestral piece you like that has an actual score to it and try to transcribe it without looking at the score. Doing this is a form of ear training which will help you learn about instrument timbre and voicing. For me, this is like a test that is actually fun. When I compare my transciption to the original score, I learn more about what I 'think' I am hearing versus what the actual orchestra is doing. This is also how I've learned about different orchestral textures too. Again, ear training is something that I feel is an important part of composing and might help you out as well.

Cheers,

Chris


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## [email protected] (Jul 23, 2014)

I watched all of Philharmonic instrument introductions which I found fascinating. Ill watch the Cine Samples workshop stuff next. I've also found TheDarris videos interesting as well. I just bought Computer Orchestration Tips and Tricks book as well which I think will be just right for me.

Transcribing at this point would just mean me drawings planes taking off from the stave! I'm not gonna try that until I'm further versed in music theory.

Im learning a great deal Thanks to all you lot, much appreciated. Feel free to check out what I'm writing at the minute and see what level I'm at if you like. 

https://soundcloud.com/facility-audio


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 23, 2014)

ed buller @ Thu Jul 17 said:


> can u read music ?
> 
> if so get a copy of pictures at an exhibition . Get a recording of the piano ( ashkenazy is ace ) and the orchestral version. Study both...A bar at a time.
> 
> ...



Great stuff but for film scoring orchestration, Ravel's "Daphnis and Chloe" is hard to beat IMHO.


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## Stephen Rees (Jul 23, 2014)

Holst Planets is also a good one. He wrote it for two pianos before orchestrating it. Both the two piano and orchestral scores are available in Dover editions at a good price.


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## wst3 (Jul 23, 2014)

You have already received a lot of good advice!

I recently took a mini course with Thinkspace, and a slightly longer course with Coursera. The later was a lot of review work, but I found it to be very valuable!

The Thinkspace class was awesome... a 'cookbook' approach more-or-less, but I'm still going back and picking up ideas from it.

I've also watched a couple of Mike Verta's master classes, and even tried to attend one (but fell asleep about 2am EDT). I continue to go back to them as well, and get something new each time.

The NSS version of R-K is extremely well done, and the audio examples are invaluable.

At this point in my own path I'm leaning more towards reading other folks score analysis, I think that might be helpful too.

And the books? There are so many good books, not even sure anymore where I'd start! And I'm not sure you can make a poor choice...


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