# Seeking recommendation for an external audio device



## David Lai (Jun 5, 2020)

Hi friends!
So 3 audio interfaces later, I finally found the FocusRite Scarlett 4I4. It fits all my expectations for an audio interface / external audio device -- loopback, small size, playback audio up to 192 KHZ and, of course, low latency for my virtual piano software applications. Worth a month of searching!!!


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## David Lai (Jun 5, 2020)

One point more to add to the list -- no endless nobs because I wouldn't know where to set them to. I've had problems with my KRK's because of this. All controls, if any, should be accessible and easy to touch and distinguish, due to me being fully blind. I guess that's all for my wishes in this audio device, be it audio interface, DAC, or whatever...


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## puremusic (Jun 6, 2020)

RME is the most reliable overall people say, but expensive of course.

You might try Focusrite brand, it could be another hit or miss like that MOTU that gave you trouble, but more people report it a hit than a miss. When I bought one it missed so I got tired of fiddling and went big despite the expense. There's also Presonus' audio interfaces to look at as a possibility. Not sure if they have all the features you want or not, would have to look at specific models. Considering the price differences between these and the RME models, it's likely worth the trouble for many people of trying and returning one if it comes with rice crispies, and trying another to get to one that works well with your particular computer.

I always save the boxes and take my time trying out new gear, I'll hold back on registering unnecessary software bundled on, etc. until I know it's not going back to the store.


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## David Lai (Jun 6, 2020)

puremusic said:


> RME is the most reliable overall people say, but expensive of course.
> 
> You might try Focusrite brand, it could be another hit or miss like that MOTU that gave you trouble, but more people report it a hit than a miss. When I bought one it missed so I got tired of fiddling and went big despite the expense. There's also Presonus' audio interfaces to look at as a possibility. Not sure if they have all the features you want or not, would have to look at specific models. Considering the price differences between these and the RME models, it's likely worth the trouble for many people of trying and returning one if it comes with rice crispies, and trying another to get to one that works well with your particular computer.
> 
> I always save the boxes and take my time trying out new gear, I'll hold back on registering unnecessary software bundled on, etc. until I know it's not going back to the store.



That's always a good idea. I still have the box, fortunately!  Thanks for the suggestions to take a look at these audio interface options. I will talk with my Sweetwater sales engineer about these things.


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## Andoran (Jun 6, 2020)

+1 for RME, hands down the best interface I have ever owned, dollar for dollar. Haven't had a single problem with it since I bought it 6 years ago.


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## David Lai (Jun 6, 2020)

Andoran said:


> +1 for RME, hands down the best interface I have ever owned, dollar for dollar. Haven't had a single problem with it since I bought it 6 years ago.



OK, forgive my ignorance, but is this an audio interface with an external power supply? Thanks!


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## easyrider (Jun 6, 2020)

SSL 2+ | Solid State Logic - Solid State Logic


We know how to make audio sound amazing. The SSL 2+ is the all-in-one professional studio for musical collaborators and media production teams.




www.solidstatelogic.com


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## David Lai (Jun 6, 2020)

easyrider said:


> SSL 2+ | Solid State Logic - Solid State Logic
> 
> 
> We know how to make audio sound amazing. The SSL 2+ is the all-in-one professional studio for musical collaborators and media production teams.
> ...



This sounds interesting. Are the controls accessible? How about the ASIO and latency? Most importantly, does it drop out audi using a laptop?


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## easyrider (Jun 6, 2020)

David Lai said:


> This sounds interesting. Are the controls accessible? How about the ASIO and latency? Most importantly, does it drop out audi using a laptop?



Solid state Logic won’t put their name to rubbish....

Initial reviews have been positive....the software package Is exceptional too...For the money it’s a solid choice.

RME can’t be touched for a portable solution but the cost is high...another one to consider is the Audient Range. I have an ID 22 and it’s brilliant.


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## David Lai (Jun 6, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Solid state Logic won’t put their name to rubbish....
> 
> Initial reviews have been positive....the software package Is exceptional too...For the money it’s a solid choice.
> 
> RME can’t be touched for a portable solution but the cost is high...another one to consider is the Audient Range. I have an ID 22 and it’s brilliant.



Hmm, is this of a similar size, or bigger, or smaller, than the MOTU M2? I hope it's similar size at most, and smaller at least, don't hope it's bigger.


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## easyrider (Jun 6, 2020)

David Lai said:


> Hmm, is this of a similar size, or bigger, or smaller, than the MOTU M2? I hope it's similar size at most, and smaller at least, don't hope it's bigger.



Diemsions are available on the net....


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## David Lai (Jun 6, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Diemsions are available on the net....



OK, thanks -- I'm not that able to put numbers into actual comparison conclusions, still thanks for the suggestion. It certainly sounds solid, but many features I might not be using all the time, if at all, since all I'm doing is to make the audio of a better quality and less latency when playing the piano on my laptop.


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## easyrider (Jun 6, 2020)

Get a NI interface then


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## David Lai (Jun 6, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Get a NI interface then



So many choices... just because the MOTU M2 is dropping audio over USB. Wow!!!


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## bill5 (Jun 6, 2020)

RME are probably not a good idea given you mentioned budget being a concern. Sure they're good but very expensive. IMO the Audients and NIs are also good but overpriced. I can't speak to latency figures offhand, but Steinberg and Behringer both make excellent bang for the buck interfaces. Focusrite does too for that matter.


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## David Lai (Jun 6, 2020)

bill5 said:


> RME are probably not a good idea given you mentioned budget being a concern. Sure they're good but very expensive. IMO the Audients and NIs are also good but overpriced. I can't speak to latency figures offhand, but Steinberg and Behringer both make excellent bang for the buck interfaces. Focusrite does too for that matter.



Looks like I should start watching YouTube video reviews for these things!  Thanks for these names!


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## easyrider (Jun 6, 2020)

bill5 said:


> IMO the Audients and NIs are also good but overpriced. I can't speak to latency figures offhand, but Steinberg and Behringer both make excellent bang for the buck interfaces. Focusrite does too for that matter.



Overpriced ?

Audient ID4 is £105









iD4 - 2in / 2out Audio Interface - Your recordings made better


The iD4 is a compact and modern desktop package, giving you everything you need to make studio quality recordings at home.




audient.com


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## sostenuto (Jun 6, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Overpriced ?
> 
> Audient ID4 is £105
> 
> ...



$199. and tempting for sure. No clue how to sort against current top-of-short-list choices:

Clarett 2Pre USB @ $430. or new SSL 2+ @ $280. Drivers are critical and Win10 Pro system has been good with older Focusrite to now. No clue with Audient or SSL. Mic Peamp is important here and new Clarett 'Air' is intriguing at first glance. 

Just GAS for now ...... would truly like to sort this. 

RME Babyface Pro LS is 'model' but not at current $$.


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## David Lai (Jun 6, 2020)

Yeah, and Audiant records up to 96 KHZ for $199, while the MOTU M2 records to 192 KHZ and $170. Judging from numbers and capabilities, I believe it's the MOTU that wins -- except that it drops audio! And after playing a DVD video, the audio dropping is more serious!!!


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## easyrider (Jun 6, 2020)

David Lai said:


> Yeah, and Audiant records up to 96 KHZ for $199, while the MOTU M2 records to 192 KHZ and $170. Judging from numbers and capabilities, I believe it's the MOTU that wins -- except that it drops audio! And after playing a DVD video, the audio dropping is more serious!!!



What are your PC specs?


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## David Lai (Jun 6, 2020)

easyrider said:


> What are your PC specs?



Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8565U CPU @ 1.80GHz 1.99 GHZ for CPU, 32GB ram and 2TB SSD (an extra 16GB plus the SSD were installed by a friend of mine last November), and 3 USB Gen3.1 ports plus a USB C port, a 3.5mm (eighth of an inch) audio jack that does more than just headphones, an HDMI port, and some other ports I don't know the names of. What other specs are you looking for?


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## easyrider (Jun 6, 2020)

David Lai said:


> Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8565U CPU @ 1.80GHz 1.99 GHZ for CPU, 32GB ram and 2TB SSD (an extra 16GB plus the SSD were installed by a friend of mine last November), and 3 USB Gen3.1 ports plus a USB C port, a 3.5mm (eighth of an inch) audio jack that does more than just headphones, an HDMI port, and some other ports I don't know the names of. What other specs are you looking for?



What Buffer size?


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## David Lai (Jun 6, 2020)

easyrider said:


> What Buffer size?



256 samples, 44.1 KHZ currently.


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## puremusic (Jun 6, 2020)

If ASIO4ALL doesn't work for you, I wouldn't get a Behringer brand audio interface, they use that driver for it.


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## David Lai (Jun 6, 2020)

puremusic said:


> If ASIO4ALL doesn't work for you, I wouldn't get a Behringer brand audio interface, they use that driver for it.



OK, so that's out of the question.  Thanks!


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## Iswhatitis (Jun 6, 2020)

David Lai said:


> Hi friends! First, if this is not the appropriate forum to post, please help me reach the moderators so they can move it to the correct forum.
> Ever since the MOTU M2 audio interface started exhibiting annoying audio drop out issues over my USB C port, I've posted here and some of you said that it's the problem with their audio drivers. After living with it for some time, I do find that it's quite annoying, especially if I was playing something on the piano and... pause...
> So, question -- I would love for you to recommend me an external audio hardware that connects to USB that I can use. My hopes for it are as follows:
> 1. Must have low latency ASIO driver as I'm using it for my virtual piano libraries.
> ...


Personal recommendation is Universal Audio Apollo interface though don’t know if it works with USB anymore.


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## bill5 (Jun 6, 2020)

David Lai said:


> Yeah, and Audiant records up to 96 KHZ for $199, while the MOTU M2 records to 192 KHZ and $170. Judging from numbers and capabilities, I believe it's the MOTU that wins


I believe you need more research  Tracking at 192 is not just pointless but inadvisable. But the broader point of Audient being overpriced stands.


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## David Lai (Jun 7, 2020)

bill5 said:


> I believe you need more research  Tracking at 192 is not just pointless but inadvisable. But the broader point of Audient being overpriced stands.



You are exactly right in that I need more research!  Because I only got into this pro-audio thing last month after a friend suggests that I add an audio interface to the mix as I play and practice on my keyboard. As for 192 KHZ, I know it's an insane value, but I think, if an audio interface says that it can go up to that high value, then it's better having this advanced ability than not. It wouldn't heart to let it do less than it promises, it's just good to know that it's capable of recording that much stuff.


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## Macrawn (Jun 7, 2020)

David Lai said:


> Yeah, and Audiant records up to 96 KHZ for $199, while the MOTU M2 records to 192 KHZ and $170. Judging from numbers and capabilities, I believe it's the MOTU that wins -- except that it drops audio! And after playing a DVD video, the audio dropping is more serious!!!


Wins on paper but not practical use does it? I have the M2 and I probably would buy the Audiant because of their reputation for updating drivers if I was to get a do over.


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## David Lai (Jun 7, 2020)

Macrawn said:


> Wins on paper but not practical use does it? I have the M2 and I probably would buy the Audiant because of their reputation for updating drivers if I was to get a do over.



Ah, should have come onhere earlier so won't have to go through all of this...


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## bill5 (Jun 7, 2020)

David Lai said:


> As for 192 KHZ, I know it's an insane value, but I think, if an audio interface says that it can go up to that high value, then it's better having this advanced ability than not.


Nope.  You're making the mistake - as many of us have and still do - of thinking "higher number so it must be better." It isn't. If anything, it's slightly worse in almost all respects. It might give you a tiny bit better latency but probably in at least 99% of all cases not noticeable and not worth the negatives. The only "more stuff" it gives you is much bigger file size and uses up more CPU. But of course companies provide it, because they know a lot of people think "more is better." Again, it would help you a lot to do the research and understand a lot of the ins and outs before you start buying. PS to be clear, I think the MOTU, Audients, and of course RME are really good units overall. I question the bang for the buck though

As for the new MOTU M2 and M4, they are new, so still they still have some driver issues to work out, or so I am hearing about the Windows drivers at least.


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## David Lai (Jun 7, 2020)

bill5 said:


> Nope.  You're making the mistake - as many of us have and still do - of thinking "higher number so it must be better." It isn't. If anything, it's slightly worse in almost all respects. It might give you a tiny bit better latency but probably in at least 99% of all cases not noticeable and not worth the negatives. The only "more stuff" it gives you is much bigger file size and uses up more CPU. But of course companies provide it, because they know a lot of people think "more is better." Again, it would help you a lot to do the research and understand a lot of the ins and outs before you start buying. PS to be clear, I think the MOTU, Audients, and of course RME are really good units overall. I question the bang for the buck though
> 
> As for the new MOTU M2 and M4, they are new, so still they still have some driver issues to work out, or so I am hearing about the Windows drivers at least.



You havea point there -- well, I can only spend that much money, so got to make good plans and, hopefully not going too overboard. RME is simply way out of my reach now!


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## Ashermusic (Jun 7, 2020)

I said it to you privately and I will say it you everyone here, 192 brings no superiority to sound over 96. You need not take my word for it, Dan Lavry, who makes some of the finest converters in the world, explained why in his White Paper.


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## David Lai (Jun 8, 2020)

After much discussion with my Sweetwater sales engineer, we will now give the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 third gen a try. Hopefully, when it arrives, I won't have to return it!


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## markwind (Jun 13, 2020)

The m4 drops in audio has been anecdotally reported to be fixed by disabling CPU parking settings.

Which parks a cpu core that isn't being put under load. (Windows)

Make sure you double check your power settings in Windows that they are sufficiently optimized


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## David Lai (Jun 13, 2020)

markwind said:


> The m4 drops in audio has been anecdotally reported to be fixed by disabling CPU parking settings.
> 
> Which parks a cpu core that isn't being put under load. (Windows)
> 
> Make sure you double check your power settings in Windows that they are sufficiently optimized



how do I do that? By the way, I checked my DPC latency, and it shows that on my I7 eight core CPU, CPU zero and CPU one are loaded very heavily, while the rest is basically idle. How to distribute the load evenly?
Also, as an update, I have returned the Focusrite 2I2 because it doesn’t have loopback feature. Currently I’m waiting for the Presonus 24C, which shares a lot of the same features of MOTU M2.
I also found out that the driver ACPI.SYS carries most of the DPC latency on my system.


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## David Lai (Jul 13, 2020)

Hi friends!
So the final decision is set -- after trying 3 audio interfaces including the MOTU M2, I decided to keep the FocusRite 4I4. The loopback works beautifully on this one!


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## Doug Brock (Jul 14, 2020)

The Focusrite gear may not be the flashiest, but has an excellent track record. I have the 2i2 and 4i4 on MacBookPro laptops and both have been been simple to set up and use.


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## puremusic (Jul 14, 2020)

Glad you finally found something that worked out for you. You must be an audio interface expert after going through all those by now!


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## David Lai (Jul 14, 2020)

Haha, I am not an expert, I'm just trying to find the one that best works for me! The loopback works perfectly, just beautiful!!! Though I find that I can't playback files sampled at 192 KHZ for some reason, but that's just one or two collections of flac files I have and so no worries, I guess. Though I really wished that it wouldn't do that... Anyway, loopback is good, I am happy!


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## David Lai (Jul 14, 2020)

Plus, it doesn't drop out audio, everything is so nice now, unlike the MOTU M2 where it drops out audio from time to time!


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## David Lai (Jul 17, 2020)

So for some reason, since yesterday my 4I4 started to work normally in that it plays audio no matter what sample rate I set it to! Finally I can receive playback at 192 KHZ. The 4I4 has fulfilled everything I am looking for in an audio interface -- very low latency, loopback and capability to playback audio up to 192 KHZ sample rate!!!


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## Denkii (Jul 17, 2020)

I love my Audient id14.
Would buy a RME Babyface if I had the money but rather invest that into more libraries or other stuff because my Audient works just fine for me.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## David Lai (Jul 17, 2020)

Denkii said:


> I love my Audient id14.
> Would buy a RME Babyface if I had the money but rather invest that into more libraries or other stuff because my Audient works just fine for me.
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Hmm, interesting. Yeah, this should be good. But I'm not seeing myself using an RME audio interface because I've heard that the nobs are endless. That may pose problems trying to operate it while being fully blind.


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## Denkii (Jul 17, 2020)

David Lai said:


> Hmm, interesting. Yeah, this should be good. But I'm not seeing myself using an RME audio interface because I've heard that the nobs are endless. That may pose problems trying to operate it while being fully blind.


I should've read your post more carefully then. Sorry for putting an emoji at the end that is made out of special characters. Your screen reader probably stroked out trying to read that.

Well the Audient's volume knob is endless too but the gain knobs aren't if I remember correctly. I am not at home right now so I cannot check but can gladly do that later. Also the channels, including headphones, share the big endless volume knob and you have to press a button for monitor output or headphone output first to tell the big know what you want to adjust so maybe that's not ideal either.


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## David Lai (Jul 17, 2020)

Denkii said:


> I should've read your post more carefully then. Sorry for putting an emoji at the end that is made out of special characters. Your screen reader probably stroked out trying to read that.
> 
> Well the Audient's volume knob is endless too but the gain knobs aren't if I remember correctly. I am not at home right now so I cannot check but can gladly do that later. Also the channels, including headphones, share the big endless volume knob and you have to press a button for monitor output or headphone output first to tell the big know what you want to adjust so maybe that's not ideal either.



Yes, it didn't know what to do with this: "¯\_(ツ)_/¯", but itcan do things like "" and other basic emoticons. 
And yes, that is why my sales engineer at Sweetwater recommended me to try the FocusRite and now I'm pretty satisfied with it.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and gear!!!


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## puremusic (Jul 17, 2020)

One thing to note is that if you change sample rate in the middle of a project, that can sometimes mess things up. If you try a particular buffer/sample rate setting and get rice cripsies, set it, then do a reboot of your computer, before giving up on it.


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## David Lai (Jul 17, 2020)

puremusic said:


> One thing to note is that if you change sample rate in the middle of a project, that can sometimes mess things up. If you try a particular buffer/sample rate setting and get rice cripsies, set it, then do a reboot of your computer, before giving up on it.



Excuse me, it's my first time hearing the English phrase "rice cripsies". Would you mind explaining thata little? I'm sorry I didn't quite understand you fully.
But yeah, now the only thing is that whenever I restart my computer, I will need to manually set the buffer size to 128, or else, not only does the buffer default to 192, but the loopback is lost. Once I set the buffer size to 128, loopback will be present.


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## puremusic (Jul 17, 2020)

Rice Crispies are a cereal.. famous for their 'Snap, Crackle, and Pop'! :D


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## David Lai (Jul 17, 2020)

puremusic said:


> Rice Crispies are a cereal.. famous for their 'Snap, Crackle, and Pop'! :D



Ah, for an international student who is foreign to American cereal products, I think I have a lot to learn about. I happen to have a friend who is a cereal expert! I can ask her about these things -- who knows, maybe even sampling them when this whole pandemic ends... But thanks for letting me know that!  Very much appreciated!!!


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