# Working With/living With tinnitus...



## Bobbyem (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi guys and gals,

After a very much to loud sampling session earlier this year, there is no fooling my self, the ringing in my ears is there to stay. At first I felt like I had messed my whole life up, and that I would probably go mad from the never ending tones. But after crying into a puddle on the floor, my gf really helped me get some hope back. 

I, as a person, am quite obsessed with the audiable part of the world, I love it. But since my condition came to be, I find My shuddering away from sound, they sort of put me on guard, in fear of making things worse, and when things are quiet the ringing is there to make it not. 

If you have any experience or feelings about hearing loss, please feel free to speak out. 
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## Studio E (Dec 22, 2012)

It's just a fact of life for many many musicians. I have played in rock bands for decades now and have had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Just protect yourself as much as you can from this point on. I have been wearing ear plugs for the last ten years or so at every single practice and gig. Your world will go on and you will still be able to do great things with the ears you have. Just think of all of the great producers and mixing engineers that were abusive to their ears for years that are still in the business.


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## wst3 (Dec 22, 2012)

For whatever reason far too many of us thought that standing on stage, without earplugs, but with large guitar amplifiers and a full drum kit was a good idea!

Turns out it wasn't... who knew?

Tinnitus is, at first frightening. But you will be surprised (in a good way) at how quickly you can adjust. The human body can compensate for a lot of things we do to it!

Take your time, learn how your hearing has changed, and yeah, protect it from here on out.


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## David Story (Dec 22, 2012)

Our hearts go out to you my friend.

Having said that:
1. See an otolaryngologist and get tested
2. See a psychologist and follow-up
3. Avoid alcohol, cigarettes and caffeine
4. Turn down the volume forever, everywhere
5. Love music that soothes your hearing

There's much to be done. Here's a glimpse of how deep the subject is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus
Do not try and treat yourself, that's for fools. Spread the word to your friends and colleagues to protect them and yourself.

You can be a composer with hearing problems, see Beethoven or, well, Danny Elfman.
Live performing is probably limited to soft acoustic in a small venue.

Act now


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## KEnK (Dec 22, 2012)

David Story @ Sat Dec 22 said:


> 3. Avoid alcohol, cigarettes and caffeine


? Never heard of any of those making tinnitus worse.


To the OP~

Just want to let you know your post helped me in a big way.

I have an upcoming reunion tour w/ my old rock band in Europe.
I quit that band and that music 20 years ago because of the volume levels.

I was very lucky that I didn't suffer significant hearing loss.
Since then I've played mostly jazz at sensible levels.

2 years ago I visited a friend in the Czech Rep and went to a "rock" concert.
It was a medium sized venue- 
the volume was beyond obscene and well into perverse.
I left nearly immediately.

I personally never liked using earplugs when I play,
and have been having an internal debate w/ myself about this.

Your story of permanent damage caused by one event 
has made me decide not to chance it.

Earplugs for me at all rehearsals, sound checks, and gigs.

Thanks for that.

k


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## David Story (Dec 22, 2012)

> 3. Avoid alcohol, cigarettes and caffeine
> 
> ? Never heard of any of those making tinnitus worse.




Trust me, I've seen it. Or ask these guys:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 003043.htm

Great decision to step back from excessive volume. Hurt Locker dramatized the common occurrence of soldiers and bystanders going deaf from one noise exposure. I sit in back or ask the management to turn down.

Melt your face isn't cool, it's violence. Be good to your ears


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## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 22, 2012)

> Never heard of any of those making tinnitus worse.



I have very mild, intermittent tinnitus, and fortunately I'm not conscious of it when it happens - nor does it appear to have any relationship to my hearing, which is still excellent.

However, the ENT I went to when it first appeared ten years ago asked me to try stopping coffee for a couple of weeks to see whether it made any difference. (I don't smoke, and I'm a social drinker only, so he didn't say anything about that.) It didn't make a difference, but what David says isn't from the occult, it's a real possibility.

My question is whether this is only musicians, and I suspect that it isn't. We live in a noisy world.


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## Consona (Dec 30, 2012)

David Story @ Sat Dec 22 said:


> Our hearts go out to you my friend.
> 
> Having said that:
> 1. See an otolaryngologist and get tested
> ...


Sorry but none of these really help. Doctors will only tell you it's uncurable and they will prescribe you some pills. I had tinnitus (I could not sleep because of it, etc., it was insane) and I've got rid of it completely. Just unblock your spine mainly Cervical vertebrae and supply yourself with minerals and vitamins. Some people practice yoga but I've never tried it. Hope this helps because it worked for me perfectly.


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## Michael Carnes (Dec 30, 2012)

Although most people in the business know me for my work in reverberators, I can speak to the issue of tinnitus a bit. I spent quite a bit of time this past year working as a DSP contractor for a company with a tinnitus therapy. As a result, I've developed a little more familiarity with that world. There are things I can't say because of non-disclosure agreements, but I can give you a little picture.

It's true that tinnitus is an indicator of permanent damage. As many of you know, the mind notices that it no longer receives input at certain frequencies, so it makes up a signal of its own. That's the whistle you hear. It never goes away, but it can be minimized and you can train yourself not to be so bothered by it. The therapy involves a gentle stimulation of those frequencies by listening to carefully chosen and modified music. The work that I've done is targeted at returning veterans who've hear a few too many bombs and cannons. There's not much difference between that and turning up the guitar too much.

If you're looking for some help, I wouldn't be surprised if a typical ear specialist is unaware of this therapy, even though versions of it have been around for years. I dropped in for a periodic ear test a few months back and found the doctor had never heard of this sort of treatment. You might look for a doctor who deals with veterans. They're much more likely to be aware of the possible ways to deal with this.

I am so thankful that my years of standing on stage were back in the days of low-power amplifiers that sounded loud because they were so crappy. For me, turning it down it was a matter of musical taste rather than good sense, but it did save my ears. OSHA/NIOSH requirements say that 85 dBA is the maximum average level you should experience over an 8 hour day. Most film dub stages calibrate to 80 dbA or so, and I've got to say that sounds loud as hell to me. The majority of my own work is done at 70 dBA or below, with only rare excursions into the world of 80 or above. It's a practice I heartily recommend.


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## Audun Jemtland (Jan 1, 2013)

There's 1 overlooked and important factor that no one are (or ever will?) Tie together with our hearing. DIGESTION. And wether we put acidic or alkaline foods into our bodies. Good point about the alcohol, cigarettes etc. But the reason behind it is it creates acidity in our bodies. And more and more acidity equals worse and worse digestion. The poorer digestion, the worse the tinnitus can get. You can simply get tinnitus even without exposure of loudness or any incidents in your life at all. IF you eat acidic foods it messes up your inner eco system and you can develop gut flora dysbiosis in your small intestine. The gut and our ears are directly connected. And it's funny that the worse tinnitus hit people were rockstars having the unhealthiest of lifestyles hand in hand with excessive loudness. You can be guaranteed it made it alot worse.

I've heard this book is a gem when it comes to reliable sources. Can't fully recommend it though as I haven't read it myself.
http://www.sunfood.com/on-sale/clothing-books-dvds/book-stop-your-tinnitus-by-phyllis-avery.html

A personal note to this is that I've had chronic fatigue syndrome, and along with that came tinnitus symtoms. No excessive sound here only consumption of antibiotics, alcohol, acidic foods and overall unhealthy lifestyle. (acidic lifestyle)

I'm suprised about the connection and we should learn from it, maybe it's something we CAN do to better it? Despite conventional thinking and therapies.
And what consona mentioned about the unblocking of the spine is overlooked and underestimated. The way we sleep (how the neck and spine form) can directly give us tinnitus(make it worse/sustain it) That's where yoga also comes in, with their inverted positions that relieves and get spine traction to dissapate.

I think there's more to this other than :"naah, you're damaged for life...learn to live with it".

btw one can get custom ear molds (ear plugs) that doesn't clog the ears entirely but minimizes loud frequencies.


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## germancomponist (Jan 1, 2013)

Audun Jemtland @ Tue Jan 01 said:


> I think there's more to this other than :"naah, you're damaged for life...learn to live with it".



+1

Never give up!


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## devastat (Jan 1, 2013)

I have also suffered from tinnitus as long as I can remember. I think that in my case it started by multiple ear infections as a child (my eardrums are very small).

It didn't use to bother me that much as I could mainly hear it in quiet places, but unfortunately my tinnitus has gotten much worse very recently and now I can hear it all the time. I've exposed my ears to way too loud volume levels for years when working and listening to music (especially on headphones). My hearing has always been a little weak so I tend to crank up the volume very easily. I have only now started to use a SPL meter to make sure I don't listen too loud on my speakers, but sometimes it is difficult to judge your loudness when using headphones.

I've decided to go to see a specialist doctor to do a hearing test and see if there is something that can be done. All I can hope in my case is that the tinnitus will return to the levels that it has been before. Thanks for sharing all the great information in this thread by the way!

P.S I find personally that exercising and working out is the most helpful thing in coping with tinnitus. It's also best to try to learn to not to focus on it in general, and it won't affect you so much.


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## Audun Jemtland (Jan 1, 2013)

devastat @ Tue Jan 01 said:


> I have also suffered from tinnitus as long as I can remember. I think that in my case it started by multiple ear infections as a child (my eardrums are very small).
> 
> It didn't use to bother me that much as I could mainly hear it in quiet places, but unfortunately my tinnitus has gotten much worse very recently and now I can hear it all the time. I've exposed my ears to way too loud volume levels when working and listening to music (especially on headphones). My hearing has always been a little weak so I tend to crank up the volume very easily. I have now started to use a SPL meter to make sure I don't listen too loud on my speakers, but sometimes it is difficult to judge your loudness when using headphones.
> 
> ...



I also had alot of ear-infections as a kid. And 15 years later I've realized it was because of pasteurized milk! And If It wasn't consumed as liquid, it was in all of the industrialized foods in powder form. Nick Batzdorf mentioned we live in a noisy world... Well we also live in a polluted world. And we have yet to understand the huge impact of our lifestyle and what we invest into our bodies.
And all this studio time (sitting) contracts our spine contributing to poor spinal health. So if you eat poor food,sit alot AND expose yourself to sound all day, it would be strange if you DON'T have tinnitus yet.


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## Ganvai (Jan 1, 2013)

Playing in a medieval band, I've got a tinnitus during the production of our first CD. Standing to often next to the bagpipes while playing. To bad I was the producer. :roll: 

I was very weird but never hopeless. I've heard good enough and the mixing worked well. A few months later it went away. I was very lucky about it, but it never stoped me making music and didn't really interfere me.

My good friend Patrick has a tinnitus since ten years. He's still mixing, composing and playing in two very successfull rockbands.

He told me that it was very hard in the first months but he got used to it and now he can work very well. His mixes are often better than mine without tinnitus. 

I wish you all the best. Don't give up!!! :wink:


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## kclements (Jan 2, 2013)

I have developed tinnitus over the course of the last year and a half as a result of my Minere's disease. I have tried a number of treatments and none were as successful as acupuncture. I can't recommend it enough. 

Give it a try - but for me it took about 8-10 sessions, 1 each week to see any improvement. I go now once every 2-3 weeks - sometimes less often depending on how I feel. 

I still have some ringing, but it is very manageable and i often times forget entirely that it is there. 

k


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## Alex Cuervo (Jan 2, 2013)

25 years of playing in punk bands without earplugs has taken it's toll on my hearing. Standing near my power drummer wife in a small rehearsal space has forced me to finally use earplugs, which has the added benefit of helping me stay in key when I'm singing, as I can't do that jam your finger in your ear move since I'm playing guitar too. My left ear has more damage that my right, coupled with some kind of chronic sinus congestion on the left side of my head leaves me with the constant nagging sensation that I need to pop my left ear. It's maddening sometimes. I'm used to the loud ringing in quiet moments, I can deal with that. But the need to constantly pop my ear by flexing my jaw muscles, loudly humming and doing the nose pinch/exhale thing is a drag.


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## reddognoyz (Jan 2, 2013)

I have dealt with the ringing and oversensitive ears on and off for many years. I haven't played live music in many many years but I think it has to be a contributing factor. My biggest issue is being in the studio in front of speakers for long hours for many years. I don't monitor very loud, but 14hrs at a stretch, even at modest volumes is rough on the ears. When it gets really bad, I work with in-ear monitors. not great for mixing, but fine for writing. When I can rest my ears the oversensitivety and ringing lessen. 

the oversensativety, for me, manifests itself as dish clatter, sirens, babies crying, etc. just killing my ears. I have custom earplugs I can wear, and do when it's really bad, just to give my ears a break. 

As far as the ringing goes. I never felt my ADD was helpful, except in this instance, I tend not to be able to concentrate on it for very long. Most distressing when I wake up. Drinking definitely exacerbates the symptoms.


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## Audun Jemtland (Jan 2, 2013)

kclements @ Wed Jan 02 said:


> I have developed tinnitus over the course of the last year and a half as a result of my Minere's disease. I have tried a number of treatments and none were as successful as acupuncture. I can't recommend it enough.
> 
> Give it a try - but for me it took about 8-10 sessions, 1 each week to see any improvement. I go now once every 2-3 weeks - sometimes less often depending on how I feel.
> 
> ...


It really works. And for those it doesn't, it's just because the body is more out of tune than others. But acupuncture is not any magic way of curing anything. It's just a method of giving the body some positive ciscumstances so it can establish it's nattural balance and "freeing" up space. 
I don't know how "spacey" you guys are but healing, accupressure, lymphatic massage aswell is something of value. And also laser treatment have been effective on tinnitus. Treatment is not for fools. But it ain't actually socially accepted or "normal" by any means. Doesn't mean it doesn't work.

There are more effective ways though. And because our immune system is a bit out of wack we can develop tinnitus or worsen it.
Drinking as some have mentioned does worsen it, though you might not feel any instant discomort it brings the whole body down, thus worsen the symptoms in the long run.

The key here is really the overall health condition of the body and the relation of our immune system to our ears. Spinal and neck friction also keeps a tough pressure on our ears. Hence a potencial worsening of symptoms if you're an everyday sitter.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 2, 2013)

There is more than one cause of tinnitus, and what's going to help is going to depend on that. I've heard of high blood pressure causing it. People clean their ears and it goes away. Musicians are probably susceptible to cochlear damage (never mind that I suspect that everyone who lives in a noisy city has a high risk). Audun has other ideas. What Michael C says about missing freqs is very interesting, and I know that there are masking devices that probably work for that reason when they do (a guy named Michael Petroff was working on that; I don't know if anyone has heard of Equasound speakers, which were around in the mid-'70s, but that was his company [and I knew him then because my first jobs after high school were in stereo stores]).

Tinnitus is a collection of problems with a common symptom, I think.


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## Consona (Jan 9, 2013)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> There is more than one cause of tinnitus, and what's going to help is going to depend on that.


You are right. It's shame those things I wrote cannot help everyone. My tinnitus is somewhat related to spine. Everytime I do not move with head for longer period of time tinnitus comes back. What I have in common with some other people is I had ear infections as a kid and doctors pierced my eardrum several times.


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## sleepingtiger (Jan 11, 2013)

I have tinnitus but am able to live with it reasonably well. A few years ago though it began to worsen with sudden "drop outs" in different frequency areas until I became very concerned that I would not be able to continue recording and mixing. For my whole adult life I had under-developed upper wisdom teeth that previous dentists had said were fine to leave alone. I got a new dentist who insisted that they needed to go, especially when he found out about my developing hearing problems. I had them removed and at first thought there was no difference. After about a year I suddenly realized that the severity of my hearing problems had lessened dramatically. I'm now back to a "normal" level of tinnitus which, by comparison, is no big deal at all. If you're in a similar situation you might want to look into this.


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## ryanstrong (Jan 14, 2013)

Ryan Adams talks about dealing with a condition like this. He goes in and talks about living with it and dealing with it in this interview...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x2tptjjkY0

He goes in to at about 06:40 and talks about it in length and how it affects him as a professional musician.


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## toomanynotes (Jan 17, 2013)

I damn sure i have picked up tinnitus standing next to a monitor playing live...or after attending live gigs, but the ringing in my case has disappeared or least not noticeable..thank god.

Perhaps i have not listened to music for long sustained periods..or i when i do the session does not last long but my gut instinct tells me that resting your ears repairs them eventually. Mind, i haven't been to a gig for years! 

I am subjected to noise from traveling on trains..but something not mentioned on here is the use of Noise cancelling headphones. I swear by them.

I recall when i first got them, i was convinced they did nothing...one day i took em out anyway and was listening to music on the ole mp3 player in the day without the NC activated on volume 4...Later In bed before sleep i put the music on (same vol) with NC activation...and it nearly blew my ears off! Suffice to say..i was shocked that i was obviously damaging my ears in the day but wasn't aware! I had to put volume on at 1!

So nowadays i am fully aware not to turn the music up against any outsides noises...just switch the NC on...and away i go! I truly believe my ears have now reset and become more sensitive that i mostly feel the pain from high volumes.

If it makes any sense...my loud vol...be it 2, 3 ,4 is equivalent in your loud levels 8,9,10 and i can have the same satisfaction as you get,,,but without compromising my ears

Pls give it a try, it really helps from falsely turning the vol up when it is unnecessary. 

Just my opinion. time to time (when im Pis*sed) i can really blast the levels for short periods and still come good.

When mixing take breaks in sustained high levels. Maybe if i actually got some real work it might be a different story. _-) 

buy some noise cancelling phones!!


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