# Which of the newest strings libraries can do this?



## Leandro Gardini (Jul 26, 2013)

I was asked by a client to compose something very lyrical. Even though he never gave to me an reference I decided to do something like Alien Pilot - Survivors track from Independence Day soundtrack.
This little piece presents a lot of chalenges for all the string libraries because of its lyricism and flowing phrases.
I transcribed and made a mockup of it but the surprise came in the mockup because, using LASS, I could not even get close to the real thing.
I did my best using this library programing almost everything possible and I'm not pleased with the result.
I also have the option to use the old QLSO Platinum that I'm sure will be better for the lyrical phrases but it will suffer for legatos.
So, after many years of no investments I'm considering changing my main string library for my template.
For those that are using the newest libraries which one would you think can work for writting like this?

Here is the original version:
https://soundcloud.com/leandro-gardini/ ... s-original

Here is the mockup LASS version:
https://soundcloud.com/leandro-gardini/ ... ockup-lass

Added version using QLSO:
(I got closer to the original sound using only one patch and very little programing using QLSO)
https://soundcloud.com/leandro-gardini/survivors-qlso-2


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## Peter Alexander (Jul 26, 2013)

Possibly Appassionata from Vienna.

CS2 is a good candidate, too.

And certainly HS.


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## Blake Ewing (Jul 26, 2013)

I don't own it, but this sounds like it might be something right up 8dio's Adagio Strings alley, if you were proficient with it.


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## Philip Brook (Jul 26, 2013)

Adagio Strings is a strong candidate also.


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## BenG (Jul 26, 2013)

I would also have to say HS or CS2. Both are very lush, and delicate which woudk work great in that particular style. 

To get that exact sound though, I would suggest layering either of those libraries with Albion I/II to get even closer. Just my opinion, however.


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## korgscrew (Jul 26, 2013)

Albion 1 & 2 

Maybe email the guys with the same question. They are so passionate about Thier products, I'm sure they would help out!


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## IgnasiVelasco (Jul 26, 2013)

I vote for........ a lot of layering.


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## oxo (Jul 26, 2013)

IgnasiVelasco @ Fri Jul 26 said:


> I vote for........ a lot of layering.



dito 

... i'm a HS-user, but i can not realize this lyrical expressiveness with HS. but may also be that i'm too stupid.


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## paulmatthew (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm not 100% sure , but I think this is what the LASS Legato Sordino Strings was designed for. You didn't specify if you had them or just LASS. Some examples :

http://audiobro.com/100-percent-sordino-music-example/

https://soundcloud.com/merlin-wood/aases-death-edvard-grieg

You may want to try looking at Spitfire Albion II Loegria for that softer , gentler sound. It only contains a small 4-8 player section.

Good luck


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## Leandro Gardini (Jul 26, 2013)

Thank you all for the reply so far.
Lots of layers is not an option because I will loose the orchestral accoustic sound I want. Doing that I'd get instead a massive 64 (or so) violins section and I want 16 ones or less for divisis.
Maybe one full section plus one solo may work but so far I could not be successful doing that unless I use the section and solo of the same library.



paulmatthew @ Fri Jul 26 said:


> I'm not 100% sure , but I think this is what the LASS Legato Sordino Strings was designed for. You didn't specify if you had them or just LASS. Some examples :
> 
> http://audiobro.com/100-percent-sordino-music-example/
> 
> ...


Paul, i don't have the LASS sordino and even if I had I wouldn't be able to get that lyrical sound. The LASS sordino has exaclty the same approach as the "normal" library except for the con sord sound. It's designed for a more silky sound but if you listen to the original recording of Independence Day (and also from the lyr patches from the old QLSO) you'l realise that for a lyrical sound the player produce a slow and sudden attack with little hold and long decay. All of this with lots of vibrato.
I never chaged the envelopes in LASS which may be something important :? .


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## Leandro Gardini (Jul 26, 2013)

I've added a QLSO version to the original post. I used only one lyr patch of each section and very little programing. 
To me it sounds much better and closer to the original recording than LASS but if suffer for the lack of legatos. 
It sound as it is, like sequenced and not like flowing musical phrases.


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## Ginharbringer (Jul 26, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Sat Jul 27 said:


> Possibly Appassionata from Vienna.
> 
> CS2 is a good candidate, too.
> 
> And certainly HS.





Philip Brook @ Sat Jul 27 said:


> Adagio Strings is a strong candidate also.



You realize you guys have mentioned almost every big string library except LASS?

I think one thing that makes the Alien Pilot recording more full is the use of doubling. Like the violins in the beginning seem to be doubled with the english horn (listen to the attack). There are probably bassoons doubling the lower parts too. If done right, adding those instruments in will help no matter what strings library you have.

And I think paulmatthew is right, using muted strings will achieve a sound closer to the original as well.


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## Arbee (Jul 26, 2013)

I like your original LASS only version much better, would it help to lift the first chair patches a little more? Warmth of reverb is another factor I'd consider.

.


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## Leandro Gardini (Jul 26, 2013)

Ginharbringer @ Fri Jul 26 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Sat Jul 27 said:
> 
> 
> > I think one thing that makes the Alien Pilot recording more full is the use of doubling. Like the violins in the beginning seem to be doubled with the english horn (listen to the attack). There are probably bassoons doubling the lower parts too. If done right, adding those instruments in will help no matter what strings library you have.
> ...


I don't agree with it. I'm sure there isn't as much doublings in this recording as you may be thinking. There are a few ones with woods and horn to get a different colour of a phrase in the middle register but not with the intention the get a fuller sound.
I don't have the original full score and I don't think anyone have, but my transcription is very close except for a missed timpani and harp single note.
This score was originally composed for full symphonic orchestra, so, there isn't any sord doubling and even if it had it would be quite noticeable.


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## Hanu_H (Jul 27, 2013)

Do you have LASS full? I think it sounds decent already, I've heard that with LASS you shouldn't raise the modwheel too high in the soft passages, maybe you should keep CC1 a bit lower than what it is now? Are you using Stage and Colors? Any EQ on strings? I have found that I get the best sound using VSS for the positioning + ER and Spaces for the tail + orchestra reverb. I agree that the sordinos would sound absolutely great in this. I don't think there's anything out there that can do this kind of writing better than LASS full. Or at least if you can't make LASS sound good in this, other libraries are not gonna help out...

-Hannes


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 27, 2013)

Agree with a lot of the comments here. LASS is definitely the stronger of the two, and a lot of the difference between that and the original recording is in tone which can be fairly easily adjusted. Sordinos will be perfect for this (just had a play and oh boy yes!), but Stage and Color should help you more - choose a more muted and ambient profile (may need to dip the HF even further on the regular samples, not sure). I assume you have LASS 2... keep the vibrato up on full throughout, and the CC1 in the lower half (in the case of LS sordinos there's no separate vib control but the 40-80 cc1 range is very affecting). In either case, definitely use the auto arranger or write true divisi parts - this makes a HUGE effect for this sort of writing. I'd also maybe layer some solo strings as first chairs, this might be a rare case for Spitfire's rather than LASS's. Spitfire solo is very limited in its use because it tends to over-emote imo (especially the violin), but this would be an almost perfect case for it.

I've no experience with Adagio... if it happens to have phrasings that match these then that might work very well, but that seems to be the strength and failure of the library... what you write has to match their phrasings to work best. Finally - keep expectations realistic. It'll be hard for the best libraries to ever truly match real, especially when you're focusing on the details. TBH if you just switched LASS over to LASS LS and used AA, you'd be pretty close.


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## Peter Alexander (Jul 27, 2013)

Ginharbringer @ Fri Jul 26 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Sat Jul 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Possibly Appassionata from Vienna.
> ...



He already has LASS which you can hear with his posted mockup. He was asking for additional options.


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## Peter Alexander (Jul 27, 2013)

To get close to the sound you're looking for w/LASS you'd need to have SPAT to round out the sound and give it the result you're trying to achieve.

I did take a few minutes and I think that the Appassionata Strings will get you closer, based on my own tests. Also, I tried the Hybrid Reverb studio options which helped to give it the ambiance you're looking for. 

Send me a midi file and late tomorrow (saturday) I'll try it out and send you an mp3.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 27, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Sat Jul 27 said:


> To get close to the sound you're looking for w/LASS you'd need to have SPAT to round out the sound and give it the result you're trying to achieve.



I know I should know this, but... what's SPAT?

LASS LS + S&C really is a very similar tone and space imo. I always forget LS is there under one of my keyswitches... every time I go "WOW why do I always forget this?!!"


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## Peter Alexander (Jul 27, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Sat Jul 27 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Sat Jul 27 said:
> 
> 
> > To get close to the sound you're looking for w/LASS you'd need to have SPAT to round out the sound and give it the result you're trying to achieve.
> ...



By Jose Herring:
http://soniccontrol.tv/2012/04/27/spat-worth-its-bytes-in-gold/ (http://soniccontrol.tv/2012/04/27/spat- ... s-in-gold/)

By Piet
http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SPAT_Parameters.mov (http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be ... meters.mov)


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 27, 2013)

Peter Alexander @ Sat Jul 27 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Sat Jul 27 said:
> 
> 
> > Peter Alexander @ Sat Jul 27 said:
> ...



I'm sure it's great (there is also VSS for under a tenth of the cost - http://www.parallax-audio.com - would be interesting to compare). I really must try out VSS some time, but I'm pretty happy with using separate ER and tail convos and can't quite face the setup effort of a new system! I'm not sure that either are the full answer here though... LS + writing for divisi + Spitfire solo + VSS would cost around half of SPAT and I strongly suspect would give a better end result. Still, I see there's a demo of SPAT, no harm in leogardini seeing if it really is transformative for him on its own.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 27, 2013)

Layering is overrated


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## re-peat (Jul 27, 2013)

Layering is, 9 times out of 10, a recipe for sonic disaster. If you want the sonic equivalent of multi-coloured vomit, if you want to bring out the worst in sample libraries (that synthy, organ-like pad-character, the ugly sound of stacked samples, the clashing ambiences, and all the problems resulting from an endless number of conflicting frequencies), layer them.

And that ― doubling and/or stacking libraries ― is alas not the only piece of bad advice in this thread. To isolate three more:
(1) using sordino samples to mock up non-sordino strings (amazingly stupid idea)
(2) suggesting to consider the Appassionatas (surely, one of the most lifeless, paddy and plastic sounding stringslibraries ever released)
(3) the idea that SPAT (or any other spatializing device) might compensate for any intrinsic timbral shortcomings in a stringslibrary.

SPAT would only be of very marginal benefit in this situation. This isn’t about spatialization anyway, this is first and foremost about finding a virtual stringssound that radiates something of what Leo has picked up on in the original: the living timbre of real strings, at its lyrically richest and best.

Reading how discerningly Leo approaches virtual strings and how finely tuned his ear appears to be for significant detail, it seems to me that there is only one sensible thing to say here: forget it. It can’t be done. Do the best with whatever it is that you’ve got, and simply accept that there are still a LOT more things that can’t be done with virtual strings then things that can be done. 
There is, as of yet, no stringslibrary ― not even Sable (and that’s the name of the pinnacle in stringssampling) ― that is able to completely replace the real thing. Everytime real strings display their singular timbral and musical magic, forget about emulating them. It’s a simple, sobering thought and it makes life all the more pleasant.

I’m entirely with Leo here, and every single one of his remarks and/or objections to what’s been suggested is spot on: no sordinos (because that is a different timbre altogether), no piling of libraries (for reasons mentioned above) and a wise and healthy desire to keep things as simple and transparent as possible.
I also agree with him that his QLSO-version comes much nearer the target than the LASS-version does. It’s still quite a bit off, sure, but at least, it’s nicely suggestive of a convincing, homogenous stringsensemble that suits the music, something which I don’t really hear happening in the LASS-version. (Not saying it is impossible with LASS, certainly not, just that I don’t hear it here.)

Both versions suffer a bit from a wobbly, unstable, wavering sound though. It sounds to me as if the dynamic shaping is too much created by automating the volume of the tracks, rather than by simulating true dynamic differentiations, by exploiting whatever it is that the sample sets have to offer in that regard. I’m aware that the ‘Lyrical’ patches of QLSO don’t include much in the way of dynamic colour-variation, and that the higher dynamic layers of LASS generate a timbre which would be quite unwelcome in this music, but still, if you shape dynamic phrasing too obviously by volume-changes alone, the result is always going to sound a bit strange and unconvincing, as these two versions illustrate. I think it is this, more than the absence of a true legato (talk about something being overrated), which prevents the QLSO-version from being even more promising than it already is.

Leo, if I may make a suggestion: if you ever decide to get another stringslibrary, get Sable. For someone with your insightfulness and your discriminating ear, no other stringslibrary will do. Seriously. Sable, as P.G. Wodehouse would have said, stands alone.
Something which I’ve been meaning to post for quite some time: I really don’t understand, with Sable being released, that other stringslibraries are still being discussed around here. I really don’t. For years, we’ve all been searching, asking, whining and pleading for a really good stringslibrary, and now that it has finally arrived, most of you don’t seem to hear that it has. Peculiar.

_


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 27, 2013)

And VOOM!

It would be interesting to hear a Sable mockup with this, but I'd be surprised if it produced a sound anything like the full string section which Leo is trying to emulate. One caveat - layering (!) with Loegria might help, as Spitfire have patches designed to integrate well, and the recordings were made with it in mind. I have and like Sable very much, but it's a very different animal in my less-qualified opinion. I agree that nothing will ever really match the original, but I think Adagio (which I haven't tried so could be wrong) or a different application of LASS would get much closer. Also I find LASS more consistent in terms of velocity progression and legato transitions - Sable is great, but it isn't my holy grail.

To me (and my ears could be way off - fair enough) the timbre of those real strings is closer to sordino than non, but happy to accept that might be an illusion. But as I said in an earlier post, stage and color on the basic LASS samples might well get you closer to that tone without the sords anyway. Adding in some non-sord first chairs would bring out a little more brightness and humanity, without necessarily having all the layering pitfalls (LASS was designed to work with separate first chairs anyway). Will it be as good as the original? Nope, of course not.

But a step back. The ultimate aim of this exercise isn't to recreate a very nice David Arnold cue (this things are always doomed to failure). It's to get a lyrical sound of a big string section for original material - intimate, playable, but big in scale. I can't emphasise enough how important I think working with LASS's divisi sections is to this, if you're going down the LASS route, LS or no LS. It's night and day. But Sable would surely have to be combined with one of the Albions (which aren't designed for V1, V2 etc so there will be some compromise there). Just my $0.02.


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## Dan Mott (Jul 27, 2013)

+1000 on what Piet said.

I also tried the demo of sable. To be honest, I wasn't really feeling it. I thought it sounded a little canned and loopy. I wasn't crazy about the sound either.


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## korgscrew (Jul 27, 2013)

Dan-Jay @ Sat Jul 27 said:


> +1000 on what Piet said.
> 
> I also tried the demo of sable. To be honest, I wasn't really feeling it. I thought it sounded a little canned and loopy. I wasn't crazy about the sound either.



Is this the free octave download?

I think there is only 1 round robin on those patches.

Have a listen to the demos, quite spectacular!


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## maestro2be (Jul 27, 2013)

Leo,

You are being given a lot of information and helpful posts from people trying to offer their advice. Keep in mind that each system used brings different results due to what they hear on their setup versus what another person hears with a completely opposing setup. Not to mention room treatments/lack of and many other variables. Including limitations of what libraries they own and their ability to hear the small details.

Then of course you have the inevitable, which is to always have someone come thumping their chest with their holy grail thou art attitude smashing what every one else is saying, trying to convert you to their incredibly one sided and blinded (perhaps tone deaf as well) beliefs in this case.

The fact is, even if it is accurate it's not necessary, wanted, warrented, called for and certainly less than helpful. Especially as respectful as most are here on this site. All it does is put you in a downward spiral to feeling as if you can never achieve your dreams/goals. Additionally, it possibly sets up the opposite result you are looking for which is people deciding to not post in fear of being completely smashed for their advice/opinion. Some of the information might be useful, but discard the grumpy bear comments .

Don't give up yet, I think a sound close to this is very reachable (but don't get obsessed with total perfection in copying the sound because you are missing key elements, such as a wonderful solo player to play through the piece with the emotion I hear on that solo violin).

So let me offer some assistance as I have sat here all morning going through all of my libraries (I own all string libraries from VSL, Albion, LASS, LASS Sordinos, all 8dio strings, and all Symphobias). I do not own Sable so I cannot compare to that. However that sound doesn't seem easily produceable with such a small string section as Sable. In fact in my mind would only make worse your goal (if your goal is to copy that EXACT sound in your demo).

Sometimes layering can be very helpful but in this instance, I don't see it being the best end result. That string sound is very clear and lively, yet, soft and distant sounding at the same time (I would consider it more of a dimension 2 sound, definitely not a dimension 1). Meaning there is certainly more room space and a deeper dimension to the sound than you are producing in your demos. Your demos sound to me like you are driving the modwheel to hard for one, and your sense of dimension is way to close. They need to be sent back in the room a bit to soften them up.

Volume is a big factor in the translation of closeness/distance (it's not the only factor, but it is a big one). Your volume and dynamic level are both to strong and I hope you can hear it when you play those demos side by side with the original (just click the original in your post, then click your LASS example and watch how loud you are compared to the original).

It's a common mistake most people make, to push their strings to hard. The ears get fatigued and over time you keep turning them up. You begin to enjoy the sound and ultimately turn them up even more. Then you add limiters and compressors and other affects and then you get even more volume. after a while your ears settle right into this and you begin to fail to realize how loud you really are. You need to back off the volume and dynamic level in your demos if you want to mimic that sound. You may need some short breaks for your ears so that when you return, you can hear that you are trying to mimic a SOFT sound, not a close, dry, detailed mf sound.

Additionally, these strings are not sordino strings. They are natural unmuted strings played very softly at a further distance from the microphone than what LASS seems to have been recorded. In fact you are possibly hearing a combination of a close mic scenerio mixed with some far mics to create such a lively and detailed sound, yet appearing soft and slightly distant all bundled into one.

It really is amazing how much the room they are recorded in affects the final sound. Try to remember that most libraries try to create a way to give you flexibility in many/most/all situations. The problem with this is that when you try to match 100% to a recording, it can be very difficult because those recording engineers weren't going for a sampled library recording, they were going for the best sonic results they could grasp from those players, inside that room. So it's all inclusive, and this makes it very difficult for a more dry library like VSL, or a wet library like a symphobia stage. Because if those libraries don't have the exact sound you are looking for from the beginning, it is usually a lot of work to get the desired result (especially when trying to mimic a real recording).

I typically find my string sound is best when I don't compare to a live recording, but in fact let it be what it is and try to write to what I have. At some point, you just have to say, it's good enough or it's close enough. Because many on here can tell you that it's never ending (the tweaking and constant desire to change). I can finish a piece and say wow, that was a great run. Then months later hear it agian and say why the hell did I leave that sounding this way? It's never ending if you allow the obsession to take control of you. Not to mention with each piece you do, your ability to improve grows with it (I hope ).

Not to mention, you probably don't have the reverb IR's for the room they performed in. Additionally, I can almost bet you have no idea what type of violins/strings they used (brand, age, bow etc.). There are just so many little variables that affect the final sound. Including the budget spent on engineers etc. to do the final mixing/mastering after the recording was done. Making "total mimicing" an impossible feat.

Of all my libraries there is no doubt that 8DIO is the only one to sound that way. Appassionata is a good sounding library, and comes in second to me. Unfortunately it is lacking the fine detail I hear in that recording. If it's all you have to work with, it will work and extremely well. But if you are looking to step up another whole level, they alone can't do it unfortunately (and I love my VSL strings and VSL as a whole). My third choice would be LASS Sordinos. Even though these aren't sordinos, it still gives a great result.

However, when I play 8DIO violins 1.1 (specifically Adagio_Ens_Legato_Village Patch) the sound is incredibly similar. I mean so much so that even my wife commented on how exact they are. The only problem is 8DIO is hard to work with. They simply do not work in many situations but when they do, they are unbeatable in my opinion. In your current situation, they would not be hard to work with for this song. I was able to get most of that sound by simply playing in real-time on my right hand, and using a controller on my left hand. It was quite easy actually compared to what I would have to do with my other libraries (infinite tweaking, EQing, Compressing, etc.). You get the point.

Now, this is using MIR PRO for reverb and spatial placement (which is why SPAT was in fact good advice, but I can't comment how good because I use MIR PRO instead).

So you need to decide, are you willing to cough up the money for 8DIO adagios for this song? If not, you have a lot of tweaking, testing and work ahead of you. That is unless you can get beyond the obsession of "matching that exact sound" and instead, learn to make your LASS strings soar with the beauty that they can provide, however having it's own unique sound (which is NOT a complete mimic of the sound in your demo). It's not easy, until you one day find it. It's the road to getting their that is brutal, feels lonely and hopeless. After you find it, it's easy to reproduce.

A difficult thing to truly mimic in that piece would be the solo violin. If you only focus on the section sound you can get very close with 8DIO instantly. If you start wanting that solo violin in there, you will increase your work 10 fold trying to find the right vibrato and performance. Again, unless you can be happy with it NOT sounding exactly like your example above (original recording).

Lastly, I can hear this is not "only strings". There is clearly woodwinds etc. in this piece which change the color of the overall sound. You will need to play with adding these and gently (I mean gently) balance them with the strings to your liking.

So don't forget, the overall sound is soft, gentle and flowing. It grows and then fades in each phrase but, it does it genlty. Don't forget to lower your dynamics, even if you have to force yourself. And don't just try to do it with volume alone, I suggest a combination of dynamics(CC1), expression(CC11) and volume(CC7 or channel automation volume for the final touches) in that exact order.

Hope that helps and wish you the best!

Maestro2be


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jul 27, 2013)

Leo, for this specific example, I believe that Cinematic Strings 2 will give you the texture you are after...


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## re-peat (Jul 27, 2013)

korgscrew @ Sat Jul 27 said:


> (...) Is this the free octave download? (...)


Worst idea Spitfire ever came up with, in my opinion, handing out that free Sable demo-octave. That’s like being allowed, blind-folded, to lick the toes of a gorgeous Y-shaped nude.

I’m a bit short on spare time right now, but as soon as the agenda clears up, I’m going to show, by means of a piece, why I feel I can confidently say the things I say about Sable: it really stands alone. Years from now, when people will look back on the history of orchestral sampling and wonder how on earth the embarrassing foolishness could last as long as it did, they’ll draw a clear line that marks the release of Sable and BML: the year when sampled orchestral instruments (strings in particular) finally started to sound good, both technically and musically. Like Christian from Spitfire said when sharing his first impressions of Sable (still in beta at the time): "I've been waiting for more than 20 years for this sound to come out of my monitors." I feel _exactly_ the same way.

_


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## Dan Mott (Jul 27, 2013)

korgscrew @ Sun Jul 28 said:


> Dan-Jay @ Sat Jul 27 said:
> 
> 
> > +1000 on what Piet said.
> ...



I am talking about the sustain patches. Though it is a demo, I still couldn't decide if I wanted the full version. Hard to say really. Really want to try the full version but I cannot..


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## Dan Mott (Jul 27, 2013)

Piet, have you not used Hollywood Strings? I really do think that deserves to be discussed on the forums.


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## mpalenik (Jul 27, 2013)

I actually feel like that sound is kind of similar to what I did with this: https://soundcloud.com/mpalenik/part2

It was Adagio violins layered with Spitfire solo strings. I did it to test out Adagio just after the violins came out, so the other string parts are LASS. I'm listening on laptop speakers, so it's hard to discern the subtleties of exactly what you want in your sound, but I feel like maybe that's a tiny bit closer.


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## korgscrew (Jul 27, 2013)

re-peat @ Sat Jul 27 said:


> korgscrew @ Sat Jul 27 said:
> 
> 
> > (...) Is this the free octave download? (...)
> ...



Great way to put it! Do you have a the full range of Sable?

Its something I really want. I have the cash but cant bring myself to press the pay now button. Ive got all 3 Albions and im smitten with them. I think, deep down, im saving the cash for HZ persussion.

With the work Ive done with albion, I dont think ive even scratched the surface of the potential of these libraries. Clients are also smitten with the work ive done, and it blows my mind to think what else I could get out of these!

I can firmly say im a spitfire fan boi through and through now. Having in the past drooled over Symphobia, I look back and do not regret choosing Spitfire over Project sam!

There i said it.

Now Paul & Christian. Can I buy shares in Spitfire? :lol:


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## Dan Mott (Jul 27, 2013)

I suggest you atleast try the demo before purchasing


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Jul 27, 2013)

i've tried something... 

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/102857373&secret_url=false[/flash]


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## re-peat (Jul 27, 2013)

Dan-Jay @ Sat Jul 27 said:


> (...) have you not used Hollywood Strings? (...)


Yes, I have. I have tried, used and bought just about everything that’s ever been released, I'm ashamed to say. And yes, perhaps you’re right. Hollywood Strings, Adagio, LASS and Cinematic Strings all have something going for themselves as well, don’t they? I certainly don’t deny it. Although I often have to go through great pains to hear it. (He added facetiously.)

See, the thing is, Sable simply comes a bit closer to how I want _my strings_ to sound. That’s it really. LASS obviously excudes more appeal to Guy (and entirely justifiably so, I don’t question it), Sable, on the other hand, is definitely more my type of library. It’s like a little bouquet of fresh garden pickings, I find ― including the odd weed and thistle as well, yes (Sasha is not entirely off the mark with some of what he’s saying) ― whereas just about everything else (and that includes some of Spitfire’s own pre-Sable stringslibraries) often reminds me of plastic flowers. At times highly decorative ones, sure, but dead plastic nonetheless.

Still, I’m not saying that Sable is perfect, you know, good heavens no. 

Good heavens, no? 

Good heavens, no. I would happily pay perverse amounts of money for a Sable 4 and 5. Provided these are addenda that allow me to create, for example, *a sound like this*. That's the sort of stringssound I would loooove to have access to in a virtual incarnation, and I sometimes wonder ― at moments when I have nothing better to do, that is ― why, after several decades of sampling strings, no one has been quite able to capture a versatile collection of string articulations that, when programmed properly, even remotely sounds like the instruments in that example. There’s definition without it ever sounding harsh, there’s energy and contrast without it sounding nasal or piercing, there’s a lightness to the timbre without it sounding thin and a fullness without it sounding muddy and/or boomy. And the entire dynamic range has a rich subtility without the sound ever loosing focus and detail. And above all, there’s that lively, warm, embracing glow that only well-played stringinstruments can generate. 

But maybe all that is asking a bit too much of a sample library?

Sable, as the satisfied customer in me is happy to say, goes quite a bit in that direction, and certainly more so than any other library I know of, but there’s still an important timbral territory which remains uncovered, I feel. So, here’s to 4 and 5. And 6, if necessary. I would gladly pay for them all, I really would.

Aah, well … We could talk ad nauseam about this (as we already have done on multiple occasions in the past) and end up exactly where we started: people having different opinions. In any case, Sable’s my first and only choice these days.

_


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## Leandro Gardini (Jul 27, 2013)

Thank you all for your input here. The long and the short ones  . I truly appreciate all of them.
I must say that there's a some of misconception happening here.
First, I'm not pushing the dynamic way loud as some guys are thinking. In the lass version I used the dynamics from zero up to 35 (maximum) and in most part it's not more than 25. In the qlso version it works about the same. All the midi notes in logic are blue ones (that means soft velocities). The original recording sound softer because the mastering of the cd was way to low (I don't know why but this cd has one of the most soft mixing i've ever heard). I wasn't concerned to match the same level of mixing in my mockups.
Second, the lyricism I am looking for there's noting to do with ambience. I'm not trying to simulate a sound of an recording, I'm trying to simulate a sound of a performance. It's related to a certain articulation (that there's no specific name) the real player produce when they want a romantic felling. Doesn't matter if the room is dry, wet or the mic are close or distant, or if there's eq, good or bad mixing. The articulation will sound lyrical in all these conditions.
Third, I know there's woods in the orchestration. There's English horn, bassoon, clarinet, timpani, harp, French horns and bones (later). They're all there in the mockup but I'm not considering them in the topic because they're doing are I need. The bassoon needs more vibrato though.
Re-peat, I think you got exactly what I'm after. I'd appreciate if you could make a small sample using sable.
Mpalenik, your demo has the lyrical articulations I'm looking for. Lots of vibratos and a natural expressive envelopes. So far adagio has been the choice.


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## Rob (Jul 27, 2013)

I'd suggest CS2 plus a solo strings quartet...


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## Arbee (Jul 27, 2013)

leogardini @ Sun Jul 28 said:


> ...Second, the lyricism I am looking for there's noting to do with ambience. I'm not trying to simulate a sound of an recording, I'm trying to simulate a sound of a performance. It's related to a certain articulation (that there's no specific name) the real player produce when they want a romantic felling. Doesn't matter if the room is dry, wet or the mic are close or distant, or if there's eq, good or bad mixing. The articulation will sound lyrical in all these conditions.


In which case, sadly, I believe you've taken production sample libraries as far as they will go (Sable or no Sable)....

.


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## doubleattack (Jul 29, 2013)

re-peat @ Sat 27 Jul said:


> I would happily pay perverse amounts of money for a Sable 4 and 5. Provided these are addenda that allow me to create, for example, *a sound like this*.



Really a great sound. But more than that sound - the composition is truly outstanding. May I ask you - regardless to make the impression for being uneducated - who is the composer? I really would like to listen to the whole piece, assuming it's an excerpt (the url leads me to this assumption). 



re-peat @ Sat 27 Jul said:


> But maybe all that is asking a bit too much of a sample library?
> 
> _




Yes, I'm afraid. :lol:


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## re-peat (Jul 29, 2013)

doubleattack @ Mon Jul 29 said:


> (...) who is the composer? (...)


Stravinsky. It's the coda of "Apollon Musagète". (Slightly edited though: I did cut a few bits, to keep the clip from being too long.)

_


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## Rob (Jul 29, 2013)

re-peat @ 29th July 2013 said:


> doubleattack @ Mon Jul 29 said:
> 
> 
> > (...) who is the composer? (...)
> ...



Beautiful music, I have Stravinsky himself rehearsing the Apollon... and very nice rendition Piet


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## re-peat (Jul 29, 2013)

Rob @ Mon Jul 29 said:


> ... and very nice rendition Piet


Rob, just to be absolutely clear: that's Simon Rattle and The Berliner Philharmoniker. Taken from a recently released and quite excellent cd (*) which contains, in my opinion, one of the best Sacre's of recent years and, as you say, this truly beautiful rendition of Apollon Musagète.

(*) As an aside (and possibly only of personal interest): earlier versions of the cover still had the EMI-logo on it, but with EMI now being torn apart by the laywers and divided among Universal and Warner, the cd is now sold as a Warner-release.
I say "personal interest" because I've been following the painful demise of EMI from very close-by and count a few friends among the staff of what used to be EMI Belgium (now Parlophone Belgium), and that surely must be one of the saddest stories in the history of recorded music.

_


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## Rob (Jul 29, 2013)

re-peat @ 29th July 2013 said:


> Rob @ Mon Jul 29 said:
> 
> 
> > ... and very nice rendition Piet
> ...



sorry Piet, I thought it a midi performance of yours  ... that's how much I respect your skill... sorry for EMI's destiny, it used to be one of my favourite labels


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## Rob (Jul 29, 2013)

Gabriel Oliveira @ 27th July 2013 said:


> i've tried something...
> 
> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/102857373&secret_url=false[/flash]



nice one, so here's a small bit from me, Cinematic Strings plus solos by "he who can't be named"  

www.robertosoggetti.com/Alien.mp3


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## doubleattack (Jul 29, 2013)

@re-peat: Thanks for the info and filling a big gap in my music-knowledge! Truly a masterpiece.


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## Leandro Gardini (Jul 29, 2013)

Rob @ Mon Jul 29 said:


> Gabriel Oliveira @ 27th July 2013 said:
> 
> 
> > i've tried something...
> ...


Sounds thicker than the original but good Roberto.


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Jul 29, 2013)

Rob @ Mon Jul 29 said:


> Gabriel Oliveira @ 27th July 2013 said:
> 
> 
> > i've tried something...
> ...



This is Leo's mockup, Rob... I just applied some "mastering" eq.

Nice version of yours! Name the solo library, pleeease


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## Daryl (Jul 29, 2013)

re-peat @ Mon Jul 29 said:


> (*) As an aside (and possibly only of personal interest): earlier versions of the cover still had the EMI-logo on it, but with EMI now being torn apart by the laywers and divided among Universal and Warner....
> 
> _


The library bit has gone to Sony.

D


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## Tyderian (Jul 29, 2013)

I had a go at the first part using Sable and Loegria:

https://soundcloud.com/chris_harris/ali ... le/s-ss1uy

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F102964621%3Fsecret_token%3Ds-ss1uy[/flash]

Chris


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## Rob (Jul 29, 2013)

Gabriel Oliveira @ 29th July 2013 said:


> Rob @ Mon Jul 29 said:
> 
> 
> > Gabriel Oliveira @ 27th July 2013 said:
> ...



Oh, I thought it was your take, sorry...
Can't tell the name of the developer for the solos, just the initials... It begins with K and ends with irkhunter... :D Very old samples, but I guess every solo library could work just as well, maybe better.


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## doubleattack (Jul 30, 2013)

re-peat @ Mon 29 Jul said:


> Simon Rattle and The Berliner Philharmoniker. Taken from a recently released and quite excellent cd (*) which contains, in my opinion, one of the best Sacre's of recent years_



I've immediately bought the record yesterday. Great recommendation and yes, outstanding in every regard - interpretation as well as the recording. Thanks!!

And sorry for being off-topic again, it's pure enthusiasm...


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