# Total frustration...........



## Studio E (Jul 10, 2015)

Ever work for a group of directors or a director AND 2 or 3 producers who ALL want to get their digs in on the music. I am so ready to throw my sh*t out the window and not come back for a year after the last couple batches of work. I will entertain the thought that maybe I'm losing an edge, or in a crappy mood, or a slump....something, but wow am I NOT making anyone completely happy, and I'm talking about THE most simplistic cues. Stuff that is no minimalistic, I can't even keep track of what the f*ck is going on because more than one note is too much as told to me by one of the producers. Things like "Too many notes", "Too sad sounding", "Not sad enough", "Maybe more notes now", "Less ambience", "More ambience", oh and when using 1 of a dozen high dollar piano libraries, "Sounds synthetic". Btw, how does one determine sad or happy based on one damn note? I wonder if it ever occurs to someone that the pacing of their edit sucks so bad that all of the ideas for how they want the music to change are basically impossible to do in anyway that make sense, without completely disrupting the flow.

Talk about a bad streak, and as soon as I make one revision, to make one person in the party happy, another doesn't like it. Do you ever feel, when they get this knit-picky, to just tell them to write it their f*cking selves since they apparently already know exactly what they want?! I don't even remember when it last was that I enjoyed what I was writing and someone else on the same page. SO frustrated this morning, can you tell?


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## chillbot (Jul 10, 2015)

Within the circle of directors and producers there has to one that is the highest up. These people are never "equal" even if it's only by a small amount... they can call each other co-executive-associate-supervising-producers or whatever but there's always one that's in charge. You need to find Producer A and tell him/her "look we're going to do it your way" and then tell Producers B C D E "sorry Producer A says we're going to do it his/her way" and let them deal with it. I know it's not that simple or black & white but maybe it's a place to start.... good luck.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 10, 2015)

I read Jeff Rona's book a number of years back. I still have the book, and I would quote him word for word if I new where in the book to look. Basically he said:

_It is the responsibility of the composer to find out - before any music is written - who is the ONE person saying yes to the music, or no to the music._

In essence, he made it very clear that you do not want to have to answer to multiple people; you don't want a situation where the director says yes and the producer says no.

If you are fed up with the gig and no longer want it, pm me with the details, and I will take it over. I love dealing with people like this...


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## chillbot (Jul 10, 2015)

Also I don't know if this is applicable in your situation, but if you're up against the clock delay sending them music until the last possible second so that, hopefully, there is no time left to give you any feedback. This is #6 on my list of producer tricks.


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## Valérie_D (Jul 10, 2015)

I feel you, I remember my project a few years back. 1 month to complete it. 10 directors, 1 producers....everybody in summer vacation, no one getting back at me, then everybody getting back at me, overlapping each other and not agreeing, while being paid peanuts. I remember at some point, since there was no time left, that I told one of the director that after 4 attemps and no success to convince her, she would have to chose amongst what I had wrote so far, she chose the first one I wrote


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## RiffWraith (Jul 10, 2015)

chillbot said:


> Also I don't know if this is applicable in your situation, but if you're up against the clock delay sending them music until the last possible second so that, hopefully, there is no time left to give you any feedback. This is #6 on my list of producer tricks.



The director of a rather popular TV show did that a number of years back with a network. Not just the music, but the entire episode on a weekly basis; he did not submit the final broadcast medium (D-5) until late afternoon, day of the broadcast. This, to disallow the suits at the network time to make changes to "his show."

The show was cancelled at the end of the season.


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## Dean (Jul 10, 2015)

Studio E said:


> Ever work for a group of directors or a director AND 2 or 3 producers who ALL want to get their digs in on the music. I am so ready to throw my sh*t out the window and not come back for a year after the last couple batches of work. I will entertain the thought that maybe I'm losing an edge, or in a crappy mood, or a slump....something, but wow am I NOT making anyone completely happy, and I'm talking about THE most simplistic cues. Stuff that is no minimalistic, I can't even keep track of what the f*ck is going on because more than one note is too much as told to me by one of the producers. Things like "Too many notes", "Too sad sounding", "Not sad enough", "Maybe more notes now", "Less ambience", "More ambience", oh and when using 1 of a dozen high dollar piano libraries, "Sounds synthetic". Btw, how does one determine sad or happy based on one damn note? I wonder if it ever occurs to someone that the pacing of their edit sucks so bad that all of the ideas for how they want the music to change are basically impossible to do in anyway that make sense, without completely disrupting the flow.
> 
> Talk about a bad streak, and as soon as I make one revision, to make one person in the party happy, another doesn't like it. Do you ever feel, when they get this knit-picky, to just tell them to write it their f*cking selves since they apparently already know exactly what they want?! I don't even remember when it last was that I enjoyed what I was writing and someone else on the same page. SO frustrated this morning, can you tell?



Hey, thats a nightmare and it sounds like you're second guessing everything because they're maniacs!..but its all just part of the crazy biz that we're all so lucky to be part of! There are millions of folks out there doing much.much more important work than us being treated much,much worse for alot less money!
Basically shit rolls down hill so you need to find whos at the top of that pile and tell them they need to call the shots here so we can do the best work we can here for their project! But even then its still your job to find what they're looking for and it sounds like they have'nt heard it yet,..they may be lunatics and thats not your fault but it is your job to find it. (hey,if it was easy everyone would do it,..suck it up or bale! )

D


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## Studio E (Jul 10, 2015)

Thanks everyone. I have to say, the recent batch of shorts I've done (5) have almost all bee brutally difficult and I can't help but to look inward and wonder if it's not me. Even if my skill set is just as strong technically, maybe my ability to deal with the onslaught of negative feedback has diminished. I had a long run of just making people happy with my ideas. It just seems like, in the past, everyone was way more open to ideas. Now I feel more like they know exactly what they want, but have no ability to do it themselves, and then want me to do what suits them. Hey, I understand being paid to do something specific. It's our job. But what about getting paid because WE ARE artists ourselves and have something to offer the project that you DIDN't already think of? I just feel like they should just hold my index fingers and press them of the damn keys where they want them. The last feedback I received was about scooting a reverse reverb and the leading note of it a few seconds into the middle of a scene.....seemingly arbitrarily, but who knows. So then I'm like "Tell me exactly where you want the note and the reverb build-up"? Now all I have to do is ask what notes and they can do all of the work for me. Can't wait till mix time. It's sure to be a treat.


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## Dean (Jul 10, 2015)

Seriously,it sounds like your burnt out,..if you can afford it take a wee break and do anything but music for a month or two (afher this gig I mean) D


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## sndmarks (Jul 10, 2015)

That's never fun. Funny thing is I'm sitting here reading your post while reviewing the score for a series a I finished a few months ago that had similar issues. It even got ugly between producers.

It was a network/prod.co coproduction type situation. I was hired to write a very traditional score with some tinges of post-modern noir. Dir/Producer loved the score and didn't want to change a note. The network producer, not so much; he wanted "Gone Girl but, you know, more" and the big dog gets what he wants. 

It took a few meetings and several rewrites to clarify what he was hearing (both in his head and in the music), but in the end these were the constraints as defined by the producer:
-No melodies or motifs. ("It's not that kind of score.")
-Doesn't want to hear any instruments
-Doesn't want to hear any notes 
-No high stuff - nothing piercing, edgy, or hi (above C4)
-No low stuff - he's not all about that bass (he thought he was really clever on that one)
-No drums or ticky stuff

It was an "interesting" experience but a cool puzzle to solve. Once we got it worked out and Producer was comfortable that I'd embraced his vision, things loosened up a bit. I was able to indulge my subversive side and feather in most of the ideas the original Dir/Prod loved so much. In the end everyone was happy.

Take the melodies and motifs note.... Turns out that he understands those words to mean something John Williams-y and he did not want that at all. Truthfully, I'm not convinced he even noticed the melodies and motifs in the final score nor understood that they helped it feel "all tied together" - which made him really happy. 

Previous posts have had some good advice as well. Figure out who the big dog is and what it is they want - not what they say, but what they mean. Then do that as well as you can. Yes, you're the person they hired and they may or may not want your opinion here, but they definitely want to see that you can take direction and embrace their vision. Once you earn that trust, then you can spread your wings and, hopefully, find a way to give everyone enough of what they want that they all feel heard and happy.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 10, 2015)

RiffWraith said:


> I read Jeff Rona's book a number of years back. I still have the book, and I would quote him word for word if I new where in the book to look. Basically he said:
> 
> _It is the responsibility of the composer to find out - before any music is written - who is the ONE person saying yes to the music, or no to the music._
> 
> ...



That's the ideal - wish it could always work out like that. Often one person works with the nitty gritty til they're happy, then it gets passed up for approval and... well, you can guess the rest. A problem I've found a lot recently seems to be execs who micromanage. It's like throwing a bomb into an entire production, never mind just the music.

Had fun a couple of years ago trying everything for a theme tune with a producer on a grand voyage of discovery. After trying about every style on the way, he was finally happy, passed it up to the exec who said in 3 seconds the theme tune couldn't be anything like that. It all got figured out in the end, but the good news was I used one rejected theme on the way for another series wholesale, and that series gets shown all the time - great for PRS. So sometimes you get lucky on the way.

But in short to the OP - I feel your pain.


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## Dean (Jul 10, 2015)

sndmarks said:


> That's never fun. Funny thing is I'm sitting here reading your post while reviewing the score for a series a I finished a few months ago that had similar issues. It even got ugly between producers.
> 
> It was a network/prod.co coproduction type situation. I was hired to write a very traditional score with some tinges of post-modern noir. Dir/Producer loved the score and didn't want to change a note. The network producer, not so much; he wanted "Gone Girl but, you know, more" and the big dog gets what he wants.
> 
> ...



Brilliant post!,..hilarious too! Thats what I meant aswell,..if you can find what they're looking for,anything at all...put them at their ease,..then slowly they release they're Ninja grip on the artisitic control then little by little you can start the ole switcheroo,..introducing those elements and ideas you know that the project needed from the start!..of course at the end they will love it and think its their idea but thats ok. D


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## Michael K. Bain (Jul 10, 2015)

It's the same in many areas of work. I am a web designer and I cringe when I hear a client say "I'll show this around and get feedback".


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## dgburns (Jul 10, 2015)

sucks.balls.

just do what you want.



life 's too short


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## dgburns (Jul 10, 2015)

Let me elaborate.Music for many directors/producers is a problem because it scares them.the only two people in the supply chain/production process that AUTHOR/WRITE is the writer and the music composer.Everyone else follows the script.So you can imagine the fear and loss of empowerment that a producer can feel handing over the reins to his/her vehicle aka,the film/tv show to this "musician".
That said,it's your job to win them over.This is a game of confidence,and you end up having to earn their confidence one small step at a time.Very hard to do as the show/film is not yet successful.Once a show has success,and you did the work,you can do no wrong,until then,you're running all uphill.

So the only downer to all this is that when you start a new gig with a new,or even the same client,you go right back to the beginning and play this scene all over again.

Could be worse,you could be a producer,worrying about financing/legal and network/studio issues.Not to mention having to deal with thesbians(actors) and gross margins just to tell your [email protected] little ben hur story.


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## michaelv (Jul 10, 2015)

_Thesbians._ Was that deliberate ? From where I'm standing that was rather hilarious, intentional or otherwise. So, I'm going to hijack that one for showbiz parties.


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## KEnK (Jul 11, 2015)

Studio E said:


> ...I had a long run of just making people happy with my ideas. It just seems like, in the past, everyone was way more open to ideas. Now I feel more like they know exactly what they want, but have no ability to do it themselves...
> ...I just feel like they should just hold my index fingers and press them of the damn keys where they want them...


This is my experience also.
I think all aspects of film making have narrowed substantially in even the last few years.
Very little creativity or new ideas are involved-
More just re-doing this or that.

The biggest problem is the temp score.
And as all music (especially film music) becomes more generic and homogenized,
the "gene pool" has become so small, that genuine creativity is seen as "alien".

The last film project I got a good hit off of was was like a dream-
The director loved everything I gave him- not a single revision.
But since then I worked again w/ my personal "director from hell",
who by himself is exactly like your nightmare committee.

It was sooo bad this last time, that I just don't want to do film music anymore.
More room for you guys.

k


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 11, 2015)

Sad to read, Kenk. If I were you I'd just be more choosy - don't leave your great director. Trying to cultivate the good working relationships and dropping the bad is surely the way forward here...


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## KEnK (Jul 11, 2015)

Thanks for saying so Guy-
but I'm really not cut out for the rat race aspect of it.
It's just not worth it to me 
and I've become less interested as the options have narrowed creatively.
I'm more of a "Music for Music's Sake" composer.

k


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## Michael K. Bain (Jul 11, 2015)

KEnK said:


> Thanks for saying so Guy-
> but I'm really not cut out for the rat race aspect of it.
> It's just not worth it to me
> and I've become less interested as the options have narrowed creatively.
> ...


You know, for years I wanted to make music for TV, games, etc. But lately, it seems that more and more working composers don't enjoy the work, and now i can see the silver lining in the fact that music directors never wanted what I make. I want to always enjoy making music, and if I did it for my living and had to deal with this kind of stuff, I fear I would loathe making music.


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## dgburns (Jul 11, 2015)

michaelv said:


> _Thesbians._ Was that deliberate ? From where I'm standing that was rather hilarious, intentional or otherwise. So, I'm going to hijack that one for showbiz parties.



yup,sorry forgot to put a smiley face.steal away brosef...

about the whole no creativity aspect,I think we need to remember that temp is there as a guide.I take the temp and try and dissect what it means to the people who cut it in.If you think about it,you can take an idea to any level you choose,and it's important to try and come up with possibilities.It's to me the hardest aspect of the job,especially with no time,and a template that tends to narrow you into the sounds at hand when you've got a deadline.
But,for me,I try to at least hit one point of the show with something completely unexpected by everyone.It's gotten to the point now on this particular job where I think they secrectly look forward to me surprising them.But man it was a real hard go at the beginning,where they didn't trust me with ANYTHING,even though I had more experience then any of them ,even combined.But having near 700 episodes of television under my belt,it's still about your specific relationship to the people you report to,not what you've done for others.
It really seems like music is a bit throw away.Alot of what I've done has never been seen by anyone,and most of it is now over and done with.But I've managed to scratch out a living,so I guess there's that.
In all this,maybe we need to find a way to make ourselves happy in the thick of things.I actually like being in the mix when everyone else is freaking out.I do my best work then,cause expectations come back down to earth. 

Like someone else once said,"just chill baby",man,it does actually work!


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## KEnK (Jul 11, 2015)

dgburns said:


> It really seems like music is a bit throw away.


And that's really the 'horror' of it to me.
Music and the whole process is seen more and more as a thing w/ little or no value-
even by composers and musicians

Kinda sickening to me, but I'm definitely "old school",
coming from a place where music actually mattered

k


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## Michael K. Bain (Jul 11, 2015)

KEnK said:


> And that's really the 'horror' of it to me.
> Music and the whole process is seen more and more as a thing w/ little or no value-
> even by composers and musicians
> 
> ...


me too!


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## Markus S (Jul 11, 2015)

S


KEnK said:


> And that's really the 'horror' of it to me.
> Music and the whole process is seen more and more as a thing w/ little or no value-
> even by composers and musicians



And composers are the first to blame for this. So eager to work for free, so eager to underbid, so eager to do whatever it takes to please.

To the OP : sometimes when the work relation is really difficult with a client, only the deadline brings salvation and will force your employer to take a final decision.

However there are many steps to do before it comes to this. First one being not to start to work until you have a clear idea of what is asked from you.


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## Studio E (Jul 11, 2015)

Yeah, I really feel that as the entire entertainment industry gets diluted with money and crap for product, we are often just looked at as another tool to help create someone else's crap. What inspired me to become a composer, of course, were a handful of amazing, beautiful films with heart, and great scores. Braveheart, Gladiator, Lord of the Rings, Crash, Edward Scissorhands. Anyone can argue the merits of any one of those, but for me, they were pure golden inspiration. Now I look around at the total shit that comes out of Hollywood and I think, "Why even care"? I wouldn't want to jump through hoops and press keys for San Andreas or whatever else is the hot new turd on the marque. Seriously, f*ck that. I will just keep my 9-5, work hard on what I do choose to do, and only try to choose things that I can attach my heart to, because why do it otherwise? The money, more than ever, isn't worth the frustration, and it's also becoming less and less available. I'll get over this current frustration and feel good about a project again. Just not in the next two weeks of deadline. Speaking of which....here I go.


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## Dean (Jul 11, 2015)

I think music is only seen as 'a thing with no value' by total a-holes! so I avoid them and all that noise,..there are countless other clients out there who dont view it that way at all,maybe some composers have been unlucky with projects/clients and had too many shitty experiences?..I do agree with some of the points re attitudes to music though.
Anyway just wanted to say that Im also very 'old school' and music matters to me big time but I choose to get on with it and avoid all the shit,I dont debate 'the state of music these days',I dont get involved with any of it.
The clients I deal with in film,tv & trailers value the music just as much as I do,..I dont know if Im in the minority here (luck of the Irish) or what ever? but I just wanted to add a little balance to the air of doom and gloom that seems to running through alot of the threads here of late. D


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## KEnK (Jul 11, 2015)

Dean said:


> I just wanted to add a little balance to the air of doom and gloom that seems to running through alot of the threads here of late


:D I can see that one might think I'm a pessimist-
but I view myself as a realist.
I'm just paying attention to what's happening,
I don't know who's winning the race to the bottom,
but I know who's losing. 

k


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 11, 2015)

I do sympathise. But to quote the God-like Paul Farrer (of Sound on Sound's Notes From The Deadline column) composers for film and TV are "the piano player in the corner".

I'm not at all sure that it's ever been a place to pursue great musical art. The fact that some great music happens sometimes is a joyous miracle. Let's not forget that much of Jerry Goldsmith's sublime score to Alien was rejected by the director. Goldsmith's 2nd more atonal score ("obvious", dismissively said Goldsmith of his own work), made under director's orders, was used in the final film and is regarded now as a classic and much emulated. A classic it may be, but not at all what the revered Goldsmith wanted - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(film)#Music . He never was in ultimate charge of the music on that movie - no composer ever is (except perhaps John Carpenter when he is also the director).

I've long observed here that the unhappiest people who compose for film and TV are those who want to write music for its own sake. If that is genuinely what you desire, choosing a medium where the music is emphatically not an end in itself, and which must always be subservient to other forces, is probably not a good one.


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## michaelv (Jul 11, 2015)

Thanks *dgburns*: I laughed out loud to that one ! And I'm very much with *Dean* on this. He is right, and I more or less concur with him about the devaluation thing. So……..

Some sensitive souls will not like what follows , but do I care? Do I Hell…..

Frankly, I'm really quite tired of reading all the precious whinging and whining that goes on in certain parts of this site, about how tough, unfair and thankless a composer's life is, and how mean and difficult directors and producers are to the poor sensitive artist. Actually you are artists with a small 'a', not the other kind. Your are a cog in a collaborative process which is about making money. So stop with the whining, or the machine will spit you out and replace you with a better,more efficient cog. The sooner you realise that, the easier your life should become. It's a job, like anything else. Do it well enough and you'll get another. Do you seriously think you're unique, and suffer for your ,um, art? You have no sympathy from moi, in that case. As *Mr. Wraith* said, in his Jeff Rona reference, it's the composer's job to find out the information, and if you can't stand the heat get of that kitchen and give it to the likes of *Mr. Wraith* or myself, because dealing with committees and difficult individuals is part of the work. That's never going away, though some jobs are obviously smoother than others. You're always going to meet a Gordon Ramsey.

If you think it's just about writing a great cue you feel will blow them away, it isn't. Not infrequently they're don't hearing what you're hearing. To "them" hearing is a secondary sense , at best. It's about being a team player and having the communication side in order. Why is Mr. Hans Zimmer so popular? He's a team player and instills total confidence in the director and producer. He's articulate, charming and urbane. They know he'll get the job done without hearing a single note of music. Yes, I realise he's Hans Zimmer, and you might think it an unfair example, but he's always done it that way.

Do you think these issues are new? They are not. This goes way back to the "golden" days of Hollywood, so think again. They were churning out music and films, like a factory. The Studio System, and rightly named. The studio bosses weren't saying: " Oh, let's be easy on the delicate and sensitive Mr. Steiner or Mr. Korngold, or Mr. Herrmann…." These guys would score any of us right under the table, while they were taking a lunch break. Watch the film, Barton Fink, if you want an education in the brutal world of movie making and dealing with producers, et al, that crush the flower of the artist's heart.

There is a wonderful story - which I'll paraphrase- about a very powerful studio boss who was sitting in on a preview. He suddenly bellowed: "What's that noise?!!" The trembling assistant eventually realised it was a minor chord in the score. The next thing that happened was the boss got notices plastered all over the studio saying:" No Minor Chords ". These days it's no _major_ chords. It was immortalised in a book of the same name, by Andre Previn. So, tyrants and committees are nothing new, and they'll be around, long after we've retired, assuming the world hasn't been completely levelled to the ground by us. If anyone thinks "music and the whole process…" has become devalued you are wildly wrong. Since the heyday of Hollywood this has existed, but decision makers do value their product. They do have standards. It's simply a case of more of everything,now, but the philosophy hasn't changed. The major Hollywood studio bosses weren't all doe-eyed about their precious artistes or worthy movies. They were doe-eyed about how much money they could make. For God's sake, wake up. Nothing has changed.Even their stars were replaceable.

And the proportion of great films to bad films has changed very little, either. The only difference now is there's a shift of interest / emphasis to making high quality drama for TV, which is attracting big-name actors and film-makers. Oh, then there's that little backwater, side-industry: the computer game. Bad films will always vastly outweigh great films.

I lost a major Discovery Channel gig,once, because I couldn't deliver wall-to-wall music in a few, impossible days. Did I cry? Actually, I did, briefly, but then I learned from the experience and it never happened again ( thus far). It just reminded me how lucky I was to be working in a ( then ) dream job which, even at its worst, couldn't possibly be as bad or soul-destroying as the interminable misery of working on a building site. Don't give me that Good Will Hunting thing that being in construction is a noble profession; for me it would be total Hell. Yes, we get burnt out, but like *Dean* recommended, step back and take a break, and ask yourself: are you scrambling about, like a desperate animal, or drowning, from falling off an overcrowded, stinking boat, whilst trying to flee a appalling regime, and you're shunned by other countries ? Sober up.

As for temps, it's as *dgburns* said, but there are some directors who get hung up on them, even in big films. I guess the ultimate temp score film was 2001: A Space Odyssey, where Alex North completely lost out to Mrs. Kubrik. The temp score thing happened to Jerry Goldsmith, amongst others. I scored a horror movie which was temped by my own music ( not that unusual ), but even then there were some issues. Not many, fortunately. Recently, I've generally been very fortunate, because the post pro company I do most of my North US work for has dealt with those nasty, scary producers who don't know anything, but make our lives hell. Luckily, I was removed from the heat. Even so, I cannot remember any revisions of note in the last four years, because I understood what they wanted. I'm not special, but I worked hard at getting to grips with "these people". Even so, last year I did a series for Showtime, which took all my cues, with no changes. Something like 16 cues in two weeks. And not just one-finger on a Symphobia patch cues either; they were mostly fully orchestrated classical-style pieces. Frankly the sort of thing that separates the men from the boys. It was a very precise brief. But Showtime were absolute monsters to the production company who were the providers. I mean, you wouldn't believe what went down, and one part of it was to do with the title music. That's another story…..

Last year I was collaborating on a major Warner Bros game, which has just come out. I mean_ major. _ It had to be approved by Warner in Montreal, then Warner in London, then Warner in Burbank. You do not piss off Warner in Burbank. Quite honestly, it went incredibly well, because, despite the presence of a committee of epic proportions , we spent time understanding the brief and we never said : "_No_, this cannot be done". The N-word does not exist.If you use the N-word you will be banished to the Outer Darkness, forever to languish in the land of the N-Composers. Yes, there were a couple of problematic cues, which challenged us, due to committee revisions, but did I ever once, say: " I cannot take this anymore, it's so unfair, they're ruining the beautiful music ! " ? Don't be ridiculous. You would defecate if you knew how many hours we put into that job, but we made it fun, even when we were really not feeling like laughing. Actually the whole Warner team was fantastic. Despite a lot of differing opinions they knew we were aiming for the same thing, and there was a strong trust-factor. Never underestimate the T-word.

It this type of work offends your artistic sensitivities,do something else, because they will find someone else anyway. Become an artist with a big A, and see how you get on. Do you actually think it will be any easier? Yeah, right. People keep complaining that there is too much….everything. Too much crap, too much bad content, too much music, devaluing its function. That's unlikely to change, pre-apocalypse. I'm sorry for your unhappiness, complainers, but your attitude is all wrong. If you can't please them, it's your job to find out how to.If you can't , leave the theatre of conflict. You're in the wrong job. Most of the time, at most levels, producers do not know what they want until they hear it. It's a cliche, but so true: that's _why_ it's a cliche. It's so incredibly rare to work with a musically educated, musically enlightened director or producer.

Have you ever looked closely at a Rhino? I mean _closely_.They are beautiful and sensitive, and their eyes make me melt. But they have armour-plated skin. Be like a Rhino. Or, as a wonderful music transcriber / orchestrator friend of mine said about this industry: " be friendly, but don't be friends." That's a priceless gem.

Am I happy with my lot ? Not totally. I think I could be doing better, and intend to do just that. But I'm lucky as hell to be doing what I love ( most of the time ) for the last many years. What's next for me: a silly cooking series.The last one of these earned some very decent royalty , and I was amazed at the kind of music they were taking from me. It wasn't lazy, plonky-plonk music by numbers. Then, we're in a meeting with Warner again this week, so it's not all bad.

Well, I got that out of my system. You can lay into me , and call me all the names you like for showing no sympathy, but I won't blink; it will bounce off me like bullets off a Marauder. But not a Rhino: that would be too cruel.


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## michaelv (Jul 11, 2015)

Guy Rowland said:


> He never was in ultimate charge of the music on that movie - no composer ever is (except perhaps John Carpenter when he is also the director).



Umm, what about Mike Figgis ?! A vastly superior , though less prolific talent. As much as I admire Mr. Carpenter, he is not in the same league of expansive talent as MF. Honestly, you disappoint me, fellow Brit, in overlooking him. And let's not forget the multi-talented Anthony Burgess, in terms of artistic prodigy: an author and a composer. I assume you've heard of him. The age of the auteur is dead, sadly.

In terms of Jerry Goldsmith, very little of his Alien score could be classified as atonal : even in its revised state. At best ( and it is very, very good) it could be described as extended tonality. If you listen carefully, that is.

EDIT: I feel the that the revised Goldsmith score is superior to the original, and this was not the first time that a Goldsmith score was revised and appeared to benefit from outside opinion.

I'm out.


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## Michael K. Bain (Jul 11, 2015)

wow. Told _*ya'll*_ didn't he!  Of course, I am teasing.
The truth is that the only reason I'm not complaining about situations like the OP's is because I don't do music for a living. But I do design for a living, and it's got some of the same issues, and you know what? It *is* frustrating.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 11, 2015)

michaelv said:


> Umm, what about Mike Figgis ?! A vastly superior , though less prolific talent. As much as I admire Mr. Carpenter, he is not in the same league of expansive talent as MF. Honestly, you disappoint me, fellow Brit, in overlooking him. And let's not forget the multi-talented Anthony Burgess, in terms of artistic prodigy: an author and a composer. I assume you've heard of him. The age of the auteur is dead, sadly.
> 
> In terms of Jerry Goldsmith, very little of his Alien score could be classified as atonal : even in its original state. At best ( and it is very, very good) it could be described as extended tonality. If you listen carefully, that is.
> 
> I'm out.



Fair enough on all points - I did think about adding a little list of composer / directors but the central point seemed more important than making a more complete list at the time. Broadly though - we agree on almost everything it seems except the sympathy. I know it's horrible being caught up between 5 people all asking for different things, and it's not always possible to get a proper answer on who's in charge. As that madness unfolds and falls down its own inescapable vortex, factory work doesn't seem so bad.

But in all other ways I totally agree.


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## michaelv (Jul 11, 2015)

Michael K. Bain said:


> wow. Told _*ya'll*_ didn't he!  Of course, I am teasing.
> The truth is that the only reason I'm not complaining about situations like the OP's is because I don't do music for a living. But I do design for a living, and it's got some of the same issues, and you know what? It *is* frustrating when there are too many people are solicited to give input to your contribution, especially the ones who don't know anything about it. So if people want to vent their frustrations, I don't see the harm, and I don't see it as whining.



It is, if you're wanting to be successful, Sir. I honestly think it is. I won't move from my position, because I know one cannot change the system. Don't confine this to the so-called artistic disciplines, BUT…. If one wants proof of art being subservient to authority, take a look at the Soviet "philosophy".


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## michaelv (Jul 11, 2015)

Guy Rowland said:


> Fair enough on all points - I did think about adding a little list of composer / directors but the central point seemed more important than making a more complete list at the time. Broadly though - we agree on almost everything it seems except the sympathy. I know it's horrible being caught up between 5 people all asking for different things, and it's not always possible to get a proper answer on who's in charge. As that madness unfolds and falls down its own inescapable vortex, factory work doesn't seem so bad.
> 
> But in all other ways I totally agree.



I don't have sympathy for composers of "the media", for the reason I explained . I have sympathy for the poor creatures that I alluded to in my uberpost. Sorry about that indulgence, but I feel strongly about it, and I appreciate your reply. BTW, your list would be small ,but no doubt admirable….. It's a good idea !

And, I will never accept that factory work will adequately substitute any artistic longing.


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## Dean (Jul 11, 2015)

KEnK said:


> :D I can see that one might think I'm a pessimist-
> but I view myself as a realist.
> I'm just paying attention to what's happening,
> I don't know who's winning the race to the bottom,
> ...



Realism is a euphemism for pessimism. 
I don't know anything about you're mindset Ken but you seem to pay alot of attention to that 'race to the bottom.' Why dont you just focus on what you can do about it or just switch it all off and do something else? (thats a genuine question not a smart ass statement.) 

D


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## KEnK (Jul 11, 2015)

Dean said:


> Realism is a euphemism for pessimism.


Sounds like a cue for another 16 page objective/subjective debacle.

To those of you who seem to take issue w/ the concept of debating the
"State of the Art", and in a thread titled "Total Frustration", I ask you,
what is _your_ problem?

Personally, I've said often enough, I'm not interested pursuing some imaginary carrot.
A career in film music is irrelevant to me, but as a composer and a listener,
I do get to venture an opinion- albeit one that challenges the status quo.

Write whatever you want or are coerced to,
but don't expect me to think it's good or admirable because you did your "job".

Loop away my brother- let that minor arpeggio murmur on forever.
Just don't expect my congratulations when you've done nothing at all interesting.
whether you were forced to or not.

Frankly I don't really care if you can deal with the pressure of impossible deadlines.
What I do care about is the end result being interesting.
How often do you honestly think that happens in the circumstances so well described
by my annoyed and impatient brothers?

a few "interesting historical footnotes":

Fellini- Rota
Leone- Morricone
Hitchcock- Herrmann

These composers, wrote "film music" that stands on it's own,
that elevated the films they wrote for.
Their music advanced the plot, fleshed out characters,
gave insight to their thoughts and emotions.

Do you think they could do that w/ the absurd scenarios outlined in this thread?
I think they would just write another A minor arpeggio-

So yeah-
as somebody who likes "music" I get to complain.
Sorry if that upsets you.
Enjoy your success.
My opinions are irrelevant to you anyway.

k


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 12, 2015)

michaelv said:


> And, I will never accept that factory work will adequately substitute any artistic longing.



But if your job in music doesn't substitute that artistic longing - or is so aggravating to you it even dulls your entire love of music - then there really is no distinction. You might choose to find another career entirely that you don't despise, and keep music for your spare time, as a preferable option to either canning fruit or writing beds for reality TV.

In a sense the rare success stories of brilliance almost amount to false hope. Psychologically they can be cruel - "if I were REALLY a decent composer, I'd be doing something as bold and daring as Morricone". Which composers, alive and regularly working right now, are in that enviable position? John Powell is often cited as one of the best, but he sounded as fed up and miserable as everyone else at the last Hollyood Reporter round table, declaring himself "irrelevant" IIRC.

So we have an industry where people are chasing a dream that is almost a fantasy, where even those at the top of the tree seem ill-content. HZ is a ray of sunshine here, simply because he always seems to damned happy. With his ceaseless work ethic and relationship with some of the most prominent directors working in Hollywood, he is the best example I can think of.

Perhaps our profession could take a leaf out of the sporting handbook and start employing psychologists. You only have to watch Wimbledon for a game or two to realise that psychology underpins every aspect of that game, that the battle is as much a mental as a physical one. The composer who learns to live and be happy within the system by cultivating their relationships and taking the sometimes relentless knocks and setbacks without dragging themselves down is enviable.

To return to Paul Farrer - he created a game show recently in the UK, called 1,000 Heartbeats. The premise - the contestant is wired to a heart monitor, and the data translated to a metronome - Farrer conducts a live string quartet based on the data stream. As the contestant gets more tense under the questioning, the music gets more intense. Series 1 was a big hit and its re-commissioned. He conducts his own music played by real musicians, and packages it up in a glossy daily show on one of the two biggest channels on TV. Now there's some creative thinking round the problem.


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## Studio E (Jul 12, 2015)

A huge source of my current agitation is my own inability to come up with something that is interesting to me in the amount of time given. Every time I reach for those same chords, harmonies, etc, it just frustrates me because I know that I just don't have the time to really figure a new way around it. Yeah, as far as loops, minor arpeggios, ostinato string patterns....it all has it's place, but I always want to do something better than what I have before. When I find myself rehashing the same ideas, I feel like a failure, whether true or not.

Success in this industry has been redefined in my own head. I spoke on the phone with a forum member who was nice enough to reach out a couple years ago. He is quite the successful composer himself. What he told me, that really stuck was basically the following. If I were to go to LA, at my age (46 now) and try to get in the game, I would most likely spend 5 years just networking to meet the right people while at the same time, scoring every shit-budget. grade C horror flick just to stay alive and trying to make a splash. What really REALLY stuck was the thought of spending that much time on stuff that I would really just hate. Occasionally, when receiving responses on here, I'll look at the profile of the person offering up the advice. I don't frequent so much that I'm that familiar with a lot of people on here. There are many who offer realistic advice, and I'm sure much of it is worthy. But then when I follow the links to their website, and look at the credits they have accumulated, it hits me again. I don't want to do that. I'm not going to mention names, or specific credits, because who am I to judge, but there are people who are, what many of us would deem "successful" in the biz, but are seemingly doing work that would make me want to stick my head in an oven. That's not because I'm so great by any means at all. In fact, I consider myself very basic in many ways, but with a good feel for the work on an emotional level. All the more reason to NOT get involved with a lot of the total crap that is on both the big and small screen.

Instead, I work a normal 40 hour week at a pretty decent paying middle-class job, and try to put my musical talents forward where I can when it benefits me or benefits other film collaborators. We have a community of film makers who are all in it at varying levels, some on their way, and some probably peaking, but you never know who will take off and offer you the script of a lifetime, and I want to be ready when that happens. My local work has already gotten me lined up for my first feature-length documentary. I'll just have to see how that process goes when I get there.

Thanks again for all the feedback. I will get through this current onslaught of short films for this year's festival and when it's all said and done, it probably won't seem as bad from the other side of things. Now back to that 3 chord grind


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## KEnK (Jul 12, 2015)

Studio E said:


> I always want to do something better than what I have before. When I find myself rehashing the same ideas, I feel like a failure, whether true or not.


I suggest listening to things that you don't usually listen to.
World Music is a great resource for untapped musical ideas especially for film music.
Gamelan, Indian, Middle Eastern, Baltic, African, Chinese, etc-
There's a wealth of very different rhythmic, melodic, and instrumental approaches.
I find a great deal of inspiration there.


Studio E said:


> There are many who offer realistic advice, and I'm sure much of it is worthy. But then when I follow the links to their website, and look at the credits they have accumulated, it hits me again. I don't want to do that. I'm not going to mention names, or specific credits, because who am I to judge, but there are people who are, what many of us would deem "successful" in the biz, but are seemingly doing work that would make me want to stick my head in an oven.


Yes- I was thinking the same thing in this very thread.
Consider the source.
Bragging about making deadlines or writing hundreds of tracks per year is great,
but then I check out their tracks, and well...
it speaks for itself

k


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## dgburns (Jul 12, 2015)

@Studio E
Only you know what works best for you.Good luck.I think having a bit of security is a good thing.And if it makes writing music more fun,than I say go for it.
Last thing I'd want is to encourage someone to have to make a living writing music.I dream of the day where it is a choice for me.Right now I don't have any choice.Funny thing is that maybe it's forced me to become better.I'm one of those slow learners who needs to do things a thousand times before it sinks into my little pea brain.
peace.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 12, 2015)

KEnK said:


> Bragging about making deadlines or writing hundreds of tracks per year is great,
> but then I check out their tracks, and well...
> it speaks for itself



Without going into any details for individuals, I don't see much bragging around. I see a lot of resignation and pragmatism though.

I seem to be endlessly quoting Paul Farrer for some reason, but yet another pearl came to mind. He said that for your demo reel, don't include any of your music unless you really have to. He's only being slightly facetious - people want to know what you've done successfully more than what you sound like. Can you be relied upon to turn in a professional product on time, budget and schedule?

So if un-named people here are producing boring cut-and-paste music that delivers, then they might not get many cred points on this forum, but they are more useful to a producer than someone making exquisite or daring works of art that can't hit a deadline or fulfill a brief. It's perfectly fair to shrug at that and say its too demeaning / tedious / irritating and find another career path, but I don't want to put anyone down for using shortcuts to keep clients happy. One might hope that in time as they get a reputation for delivering the goods, the deadline-hitter might get offered better gigs, and a chance to spread their wings. At that point, if the composer has talent and craft, then they will have a more fulfilling career opening up for them. If they have little or none, then they'll have probably reached the limit of where their musical career could go.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 12, 2015)

KEnK said:


> Bragging about making deadlines or writing hundreds of tracks per year is great,
> but then I check out their tracks, and well...
> it speaks for itself


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Jul 12, 2015)

I don't know. Some of the sentiments in this thread ... not exactly how to cover oneself in glory.

These snide remarks about other people's work - rather uncalled for and petty-minded. And then this sulking about how heartbreakingly hard it is to be a working musician, and what tough fate it is to be forced to live off of music. Talk about jaded. I heard the career paths to flipping burgers and small-time retail are always open.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the frustrations. But at the same time: considering how many young people are giving it all they can, taking risks, drudging through crappy day jobs and struggling to have a shot at a career in something music-related, this kind of lameting strikes me as bitter and detached.


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## Studio E (Jul 12, 2015)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I don't know. Some of the sentiments in this thread ... not exactly how to cover oneself in glory.
> 
> These snide remarks about other people's work - rather uncalled for and petty-minded. And then this sulking about how heartbreakingly hard it is to be a working musician, and what tough fate it is to be forced to live off of music. Talk about jaded. I heard the career paths to flipping burgers and small-time retail are always open.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I understand the frustrations. But at the same time: considering how many young people are giving it all they can, taking risks, drudging through crappy day jobs and struggling to have a shot at a career in something music-related, this kind of lameting strikes me as bitter and detached.



Right, well as I think I mentioned before, I'm already a professional "something else". When I do this, it is outside of the other 40+ of that job and regular life. As a person who has easily put in their 10,000 if not 20,000 and currently working more hours on trying to make some good music for films than I am at my day job, I don't feel like I'm exactly lamenting for no reason. Besides, this is primarily a forum of composers and music producers. I'm merely sharing sentiments of the industry from my narrow angle. If this was a forum of high profile film makers, I'd be Mr Johnny-on-the-spot that could do everything you'd ever need. Then I'd get jobs from the forum and go back to VI-Control to whine about how I can't handle the stress of it all, lol.


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## KEnK (Jul 12, 2015)

Hah!

Guys- My post, which some of you are taking exception to
was in response to a certain "uber post" that I found condescending, objectionable,
and not in keeping w/ the spirit of this thread at that point.

I have an opinion and I will voice it
and I don't actually care what anybody thinks
If someone hands me a turd, I will say "This is a turd".
I was taught that by my Grandmother.
(She was quite a feisty woman)

At other times in other threads, I have said quite clearly,
that I think a couple recent Academy Awards were undeserved.
There are "A list" composers who's music I can't stand-
and it always takes me out of the picture

So if a couple people take what I say "personally", or "impolitic",
you're in good company.
Don't sweat it.

I like you too Riff 

k


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## chillbot (Jul 12, 2015)

This thread is an ugly read... not sure how it got from a seemingly innocent vent to declaring you can't write real/interesting music in a work-for-hire situation. (Am I understanding this?) Any time people start referring to each other as "certain individuals" no good comes of it...

Also as someone who whips out crap all day long I'm starting to think I should feel offended.

@michael V: I don't really see anyone "complaining" per se... maybe "venting" yes but who else are you going to vent to? This seems like a reasonable place to vent to me. Look, I can vent to my wife all day but she's already heard it a million times and yet never actually been in the same situation. I swear to you I live by "always be part of the solution" I do this every day and sometimes a hundred times a day. I have virtually no ego about my music (probably for good reason). Yet no matter how much you try to be the perfect cog in the wheel and how many hoops you smile and jump through if you do it enough you still may end up in the situation the OP was in and need to let off a little steam. Sometimes I try so hard to "always be part of the solution" yet find myself surrounded by people who insist on being part of the problem, it happens.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Jul 12, 2015)

There are some good projects and many bad ones. At least that has been my experience so far. I am very new to all this relatively. Only 8 years ago I started writing professionally (getting paid!).

I did not struggle much to get in but sustaining it has been tough at times.

My biggest problem is with the fact how so many people lack any understanding of the entire process of writing music to picture.

I hear things out of people's mouth that is shocking to me, specially coming from people who have been around for a long time. If you are in the business of anything, surely you will pick up things along the way.

It becomes even more complicated with new directors and often many other people in the production have way more experience. Some guys are really great but so many of them seem lost.

The tricky thing is that sure you will work once a year with someone who is really great but having a career in writing music to picture is difficult because you have to do more than one film a year to pay the bills.

I do say no a lot and it has meant I make much less money than some colleagues.

I was born in 1984 and I was never part of the analogue era. I started off with Cubase 4 but somehow even I feel that a lot of times it has to do with accessible technology.

Our process has become so passive in many ways. You just sit there on a computer and write the music. More often than not, there is no budget to record anything.

It seems all dull to the filmmakers involved.

I find that when I involve filmmakers in a more tangible way, the results are more favourable. I have seen other composers who I have learnt from do this. May be ask one of the producers to try a background voice over in a commercial or just keep them more involved in the process and not shut it down like a secret castle. Mixing in with the musicians and making it more of an event than just a regular process. It is a thin line though, you don't want a rogue director or producer making any serious calls during a recording session - just the illusion of it, if possible.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of psychological issues at play at least in film. Like it or not, this burden does rest upon our shoulders a lot.

I hope I am making sense.

Other times, its just pure joy because the director really believes in your ability.

I think one of the best things a director can do to extract the best music out of a composer is to create an environment in which creativity and musicality can thrive. Even together, we can sometimes do this.

Talk a lot about the story, the vision and be protective of the film and each other.

The few times this has happened, its been wonderful and some nice things have come off it.

Like Guy said, this is 'Film music' and if anyone just wants to write great music without the constraints of a director's vision then this is not the place to do so.

Those days are behind us when directors would just hear a sketch on the piano and wait until the actual recording to find out what it was going to sound like.

I think at that time, they simply had to defer to composer on most everything because there was no way to hear anything beforehand.

Now, its a whole different world. Like I said, I have no experience of the time long gone now but if there is something to take away from it, it is that we have lost the excitement and the feeling of a gala event compared to using technology which can feel very boring and passive. And of course, the phenomenal music written before us 

Recording sessions with orchestras must have been an absolutely thrilling experience.

Compare that to loading a Spitfire patch and playing it for a director on your keyboard.....its just...meh!

But play the same thing with musicians in front of you, where they see the work happening visually and with a tangible feel, its another thing altogether.

In my experience, filmmakers love recording sessions the most. They all light up and get so excited!

We have to bring that feeling back in the studio somehow. 

Just my views.

Tanuj.


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## Studio E (Jul 12, 2015)

You guys need to take it easy on each other. I was indeed just venting, and others are just calling it like they see it. No need to get feathers ruffled. We like what we like, we deal with things like we deal with things. Everyone's perspective is unique. No biggie. As of now, I'm in the final stages of writing for my 4th of 5 short films in the last two months, the last four of which are all happening in the last 5-6 weeks. The pressure (self-imposed) is huge. The other reality factor that to many is intangible, is what one's ability IS to just sit here and sit here and sit here and be productive. I tried for three evenings after work, when this current film had just hit my hard drive, to try to write a single note I liked. It never happened. Not because I didn't sit here at my desk and try, but because sometimes (after a 10 hour day) my brain just doesn't work that way.

Now I'm here on my 3rd day off from the regular job and I'm finishing about 10 minutes of music. Not great music. Not incredibly original music, but music......the amount asked for, revised in parts over a half dozen times and sure to be touched up for another 12 to 16 hours after I say that the writing portion is finished. But it will be done.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 12, 2015)

Tanuj Tiku said:


> I was never part of the analogue era.



Condolences.


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## RiffWraith (Jul 12, 2015)

KEnK said:


> I like you too Riff



Smooch!!!

So, my tracks are really that bad?


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## Michael K. Bain (Jul 12, 2015)

RiffWraith said:


> Condolences.


I can remember my first 4 track recorder. I was elated. I had hit the big time. No more recording on one cassette then recording me playing anther sound onto another cassette in a second cassette recorder while the first cassette played in the background on the first recorder.


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## KEnK (Jul 12, 2015)

RiffWraith said:


> So, my tracks are really that bad?


Riff-

My love note was for michaelv in response to his lengthy tirade.
I thought it was deserving of some form of, shall we say, "calling out".
I actually forgot you were in this thread until I saw your Funny Valentine
Made me smile- 

But don't worry-
I actually don't like anything 

(but i do admire your feisty attitude)

k


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## jneebz (Jul 12, 2015)

Candor may lead to some nipping and gnashing, but this thread is full of invaluable information, especially for anyone new or thinking about entering the composer world. I've been a pro for less than a year, and have already dealt with many of the not-so-fun producer/director scenarios described here.

The beauty of this "honeymoon phase" is that I can re-record a cello line that the Producer loved 3 hours ago but now detests, watch my DAW crash on export of final WAVs, trip over my guitar and sprain my ankle as I leave the studio, kiss my girls goodnight, wake up in the morning and shout:

_*"HOLY &%$! I WRITE MUSIC FOR MONEY!"*_

I know it will fade as my laps around the track increase, but for now, I'm enjoying the journey. Thankful for the wisdom in this thread and many others here at VI-Control.

Peace,
-J


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## Dean (Jul 13, 2015)

KEnK said:


> Sounds like a cue for another 16 page objective/subjective debacle.
> 
> To those of you who seem to take issue w/ the concept of debating the
> "State of the Art", and in a thread titled "Total Frustration", I ask you,
> ...



Personally speaking I dont think you're opinions are irrelevant,.voices like your's are always needed!..especially when they go against the grain...'If its leaning give it a push'!
Totally agree re Moricone,'The Good,The Bad And The Ugly' score is truely incredible and one of the most original scores ever written.Im also a huge fan of Rota,Herrmann,Bernstein,Schifrin,.. the list goes on.

I was genuinely just curious if you feel this way because you had so many bad experiences with directors/projects or that you are so bothered by what everyone else is doing thats its just put you off your own game?..otherwise you could keep going,composing 'interesting' music for film?
D


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## dgburns (Jul 13, 2015)

jneebz said:


> Candor may lead to some nipping and gnashing, but this thread is full of invaluable information, especially for anyone new or thinking about entering the composer world. I've been a pro for less than a year, and have already dealt with many of the not-so-fun producer/director scenarios described here.
> 
> The beauty of this "honeymoon phase" is that I can re-record a cello line that the Producer loved 3 hours ago but now detests, watch my DAW crash on export of final WAVs, trip over my guitar and sprain my ankle as I leave the studio, kiss my girls goodnight, wake up in the morning and shout:
> 
> ...



Gonna start monday morning off on the right foot.GOOD for you!

Maintaining a positive "anything is possible" attitude is one of those things that people really do respond to.I've made the connection with this regarding uber successful people,they are all seemingly happy positive and full of enthusiasm in their dealings with their work.And why shouldn't they be,being successful to the point of giddiness does bring that out.And seeing the way they can actually shape the world around them and change others' mindset too.Very powerfull stuff.
No one likes a downer type,and no one likes to be around one.Maybe that's the thing that is supposed to go by unsaid,but I see the result of it in real life in this biz everyday.

Work hard at maintaining that energy you had at your first success(be it first recording,first gig,first cue on tv whatever).Those magic moments can fade fast if you let them.IM freakin HO

lecture over


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## KEnK (Jul 13, 2015)

Thanks Dean,

I appreciate that very much.

I'll answer your questions about my personal philosophy,
and why I hold Film, Music and all Art (w/ a capital A) to such a high standard.

While I'm not rich, I'm fortunate enough to not have to partake in any kind of rat race
for a few measly crumbs. So that's a big part of it.
Not being interested in "fame" or illusory wealth, the most important thing to me
in any collaborative project is simple respect for what I do.

This used to happen often enough, but as computer technology has impacted
how Film and Music are created, It has also impacted how they are perceived.

I also have the luxury of being nearly 58.
So I came up in an era where Art, Music and Film had great Social Importance.
Composition was done w/ a pencil.
Film editing was done w/ a razor blade.
Music was something played by musicians
Now all of that happens on a keyboard.
Very few people think that Music is something that happens at a performance.
It's now something that happens when you put your thumb on your phone.

Without effort, muscle tone is lost.
Things made easily are usually not made well.
On this very forum there have been threads debating
if notation, theory and even melody is necessary.
No need for craft when you can push a button.

The Editing of Film on a computer has made it possible for an editor
to continue to jerk his film around even hours before the 1st screening.
This has shortened the amount of time composers get to compose-
So we resort to loops and drones to "get the job done".
The "Temp Score" has resulted in a shrinking of the gene pool.
How often have you been asked to copy an imitation of a copy?

Music in general and Film Music in particular are more homogenized than ever before.
The tools we use are actually responsible for that in a big way.
I've never seen as many sequels and remakes
coming out of Hollywood as there are now.
My Wonderful Wife worked on San Andreas and we went to a screening.
I was amazed at how generic the score was.
I'm sure the composer did exactly what he was told to do, which was "nothing".
Don't "do" anything.

The unique vision is frightening to a world of art (small 'a' this time) as a fast food hamburger.
Unique Vision.
That's why we all started down this path.
And it gets lost in the loops we buy to "get the job done"

So - Like Don Quixote, I'll rage against the Windmills
To me- it's the Generic.
Pointless, I know.
But I just still believe in the Awesome Power of Music.

thanks for reading

k


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## Dean (Jul 13, 2015)

Hey,I agree with you on most points,(I wish the endless waves of superhero spin-off movies/tv series would just stop but the studios seem to want to give us a film or series based on every character they've bought the rights to),but I still think theres a whole world of incredible art and film making going on that does'nt get the attention of the charts or 50 top grossing movies etc.,..there were some incredible films made last year with great scores too.

I agree '_Things made easily are usually not made well_.' Thats why I have very limited studio equipment even though I also compose for cinema trailers,..the phrase 'nothing fails like success' always sticks in my mind when I consider buying the best of everything for the studio so I keep it all to the barest essentials and work infinitely harder for it sometimes.
Maybe Ive missed out on alot of that craziness as Ive never worked on any reality shows, tv ads,tv and film libraries etc, also I dont live or work in LA,I'm in Ireland.I have an agent to do all the dirty work and work with some regular clients who constantly push me.I'm sure Ive lost out on a fortune here and there and I recently turned down the biggest gig of my life(and probably most composers) but Id rather have a life instead plus I'm playing a long game which is really working for me now so I'll take the hits and avoid as much of that pain as possible. D


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