# All in one libraries under $400. Best choices 2019.



## mybadmemory (Sep 26, 2019)

Hi!

Planning to upgrade from CineSymphony Lite (that i've been using for about a year). Want a more detailed library, but still an all-in-one, for a maximum of €400.

Not really interested in mic positions, fully separate sections, or super hyped epic trailer sound. Basically just want a beautiful bread and butter orchestra, preferably with some solo instruments, and perhaps even a harp / piano as well.


*Albion* – no piano / harp / choir. lots of loops. some seem to dislike strings. a bit outdated?

*Nucleus* – more modern. seem to have great legatos and solo instruments. choir. perhaps too modern / epic sounding?

*Metropolis Arc*– highly loved and recommended. perhaps also too epic sounding? is that even an issue?

*Berlin Inspire* – seem more classical. has solo instruments + piano + harp. Not as great legatos perhaps?


Opinions? Strengths / weaknesses? Other contenders?

Thanks!


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## RogiervG (Sep 26, 2019)

albion, like albion one? or some other albion? (there are a few)
Same for Metropolis ARK (4 volumes)
Inspire, has two volumes.. which one are you liking more?


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## ism (Sep 26, 2019)

Here's how I imagine I'd rate them in order of Most @Daniel James -esque:

Nucleus
Met Ark 1
Albion One
Berlin Inspire



And here's how I imagine I'd rate them in order of Most @ism -esque:


Berlin Inspire
Albion One
Met Ark 1
Nucleus



All good choices though


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## Manuel Stumpf (Sep 26, 2019)

Indeed all good choices.

Metropolis Ark1:
The most epic sounding of the ones you mentioned. That's what it was made for.
For allround packages I'd look at the others.

Berlin Inspire:
Sounds more classical. A very nice allround package. Also has piano and harp.
The piano is ok for orchestral context, for solo piano music you might want to have a dedicated piano library. I have found this to be true for all pianos included in any orchestral packages so far.
NI has a very good priced Berlin Inspire 1+2 bundle deal at the moment!
Or single volumes too.

Nucleus:
It comes with 2 mix mics: Modern Mix and Classic Mix.
The classic mix is not too epic sounding.
One has to be carefull with the modwheel. In the upper ranges the brass really has some bite and sizzle.
Has no piano and harp.

Albion One:
Don't know what is important for you.
Albion One for example misses the complete classic orchestral percussion instruments.

Palette Symphonic Sketchpad:
Another all-in-one library. Contains full ensemble patches, no single sections.
Not sure if this is such a big upgrade compared to CineSympony Lite though.
Right now on sale at APD for $99.
Given from pure sound and overall content I think Nucleus and Berlin Inspire are superior, but also more expensive.

From what you have written Berlin Inspire or Nucleus could be what you are looking for.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Sep 26, 2019)

Have you checked out EW Symphonic Orchestra? It has a complete orchestra, plus a nice Steinway, harp, and solo instruments.


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## averystemmler (Sep 26, 2019)

I've seen EW Hollywood Orchestra diamond on sale for $400. It's hard to find something more bread-and-butter for the price, in my opinion.

I don't think their solo strings are included, but the brass and woodwind libraries include most things in solo.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Sep 26, 2019)

mybadmemory said:


> Opinions? Strengths / weaknesses? Other contenders?


Metropolis Arks aren't all-in-one. Unless you mean all in one _mood_, since each Ark is sort of a specialty kit of articulations and instruments that gear their performance toward one single idea. (Loud, deep, percussive, aggressive chamber.)


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## axb312 (Sep 26, 2019)

Why don't you put up a poll?


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## Fleer (Sep 26, 2019)

axb312 said:


> Why don't you put up a poll?


Good idea. 
I’ll vote Albion ONE first, RedRoom Audio Palette second.


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## Quasar (Sep 26, 2019)

You should at least take a look at Indiginus/Sonic Scores Amadeus, which IMHO is fantastic bang for buck at $149. You get easy to use ensemble patches, but it also covers an entire symphony orchestra so you can get as detailed as you wish. One of the happier library purchases I have ever made. I really like the sound, the simplicity and the low resource footprint. Scripted legato, and most of the usual standard articulations, even if not the most extensive:


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 26, 2019)

I’d recommend watching Daniel James first look at Nucleus. However, intro pricing is ending very very soon. I think that it’s the best one for the money this year - the next one “up” will probably be the BBC one.

Nucleus classic mix is the recorded mix. Nucleus modern has been modestly processed to be more ... epic-y.

And unless you need a piano or harp solo, it’s not hard to add those on the cheap, or even free, from elsewhere.


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## mybadmemory (Sep 26, 2019)

Thanks guys! I think I’m closing in on either Nucleus or Berlin Inspire 1+2.

Which would be your favorite among these two and why?


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## Dex (Sep 26, 2019)

No love for The Orchestra?


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## dzilizzi (Sep 26, 2019)

I didn't think Albion was that great, at least not One - I do like Tundra. But then I watched Homay from Spitfire's walkthrough on how to write a piece using One. She showed how she worked the modulation and dynamics and used the various parts to make it work. I was impressed with how it sounded. Alex Niedt did a similar walkthrough for Inspire that showed how it could be used. I haven't tried Sketchpad yet.

I'm afraid to watch DJ's walkthrough of Nucleus, because really, I don't need it. The Inspire bundle is only interesting because it has low RAM, which my laptop needs. 

It really depends on how you want to use it. I would say HWO Diamond or even Gold on sale may be the best deal. But if you don't want to deal with a lot of articulations, something like Albion or the Inspire bundle might be better.


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## dzilizzi (Sep 26, 2019)

Dex said:


> No love for The Orchestra?


Not as an orchestra. The arp engine, however, is amazing.


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## mybadmemory (Sep 26, 2019)

Poll added!


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## Puzzlefactory (Sep 26, 2019)

I recently bought Nucleus, it’s really great IMO.


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## midi-et-quart (Sep 26, 2019)

I do agree with most of what's been said before. Although Nucleus seems like a really good starter with essential shorts and longs and would be my first recommendation if it's supposed to sound orchestral. 
If it's supposed to sound epic directly out of the box, then nothing can beat MA1 I guess.


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## DSmolken (Sep 27, 2019)

What about VSL SE1?


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## ScoreFace (Sep 27, 2019)

I would recommend The Orchestra Complete - for me it seems to cover all important orchestral sounds and instruments plus some cool bonus features like choir or fx string clusters. 

And there is this cool engine which makes it so easy to sketch my ideas quickly - seems to be the best starter for me.


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## Geomir (Sep 27, 2019)

As posted above, EWHO has the best value for money. A huge orchestral library offering high sound quality of strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion, and almost every possible articulation (including true legato samples). Especially the 100GB Gold Edition sells for less than $300 very often. So far no one can beat that price.

But the OP is searching for something different (see a all-in-one library)! And I would be also very curious about the "battle" between *Palette Symphonic Sketchpad vs Berlin Inspire(s)*. They both have ready-to-use full strings ensembles, full brass ensembles and full woodwinds ensembles. Which one sounds more realistic (i.e. less synthetic)?


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## Kurosawa (Sep 27, 2019)

EWHO is probably the best value for your money.
But the Arks are great in what they are supposed to be (I love Ark 2).


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## ReelToLogic (Sep 27, 2019)

Two of the earlier orchestral sample libraries I purchased were ProjectSAM's Orchestral Essentials 1 & 2. The bundle was recently on sale and I still think they sound fantastic. Strings, brass, woodwinds in various sections and combinations, great sounding percussion, some nice solo legato instruments, harp, trailer FX. They cover a lot of ground and you can make great music with them. Even though I have a lot of other libraries now, there are still some patches in OE 1 & 2 that I love and use. Definitely worth considering if the bundle goes on sale again this BF.


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## RogiervG (Sep 27, 2019)

ewho is not good imho, (the gold one), it's tedious to work with, the player is a resource hog, slow loading. It lacks features kontakt and other have, the libraries itself are so so, by modern standards imho.
The woodwinds are quite bad actually.
Choose a bundle you like the sound of, meaning sounds from end user videos/songs. (solely using the bundle, no context vids/demos)
e.g. the silver and gold demos on EW site, are in reality using the diamond version of the libs, which itself has a different sound, by mic options and higher quality, and the strings have divisi patches, not included in the gold and silver. It also is heavily processed in post production, with additional tools so you don't get a fair demo of the abilities. (and using the diamond makes quite a difference sonically from the get go)


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## mybadmemory (Sep 27, 2019)

Thanks for all replies guys! More votes for *Berlin* than I had expected!

I might also add that general modernness in workflow are also quite important, as well as compatibility with Kontakt Player. That's one of the reasons i'm looking at these smaller all-in-ones as well.

How would you rate *Berlin* VS *Nucleus* in terms of ease of use, UI, playability, and recource lightness?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Sep 27, 2019)

RogiervG said:


> ewho is not good imho, (the gold one), it's tedious to work with, the player is a resource hog, slow loading. It lacks features kontakt and other have, the libraries itself are so so, by modern standards imho.
> The woodwinds are quite bad actually.
> Choose a bundle you like the sound of, meaning sounds from end user videos/songs. (solely using the bundle, no context vids/demos)
> e.g. the silver and gold demos on EW site, are in reality using the diamond version of the libs, which itself has a different sound, by mic options and higher quality, and the strings have divisi patches, not included in the gold and silver. It also is heavily processed in post production, with additional tools so you don't get a fair demo of the abilities. (and using the diamond makes quite a difference sonically from the get go)



This just goes to show how libraries are such a personal decision. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum; HS and HB Gold have been by main string/brass libraries since they first released....and have used them in countless productions (although BBCSO may change that). I find Play (especially Play 6) to very fast loading and resource friendly on both PC and Mac. They definitely have a learning curve, but the results are totally worth it if one fully utilizes their strengths. The woodwinds and percussion are not my favourite, but EW Symphonic Orchestra (not Hollywood) is a still good contender for an all-rounder.


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## mybadmemory (Sep 27, 2019)

Oh and as it stands now it's either Berlin 1+2 (for $349) or Nucleus (for $449).


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 27, 2019)

That’s probably a tough choice - with no wrong answer. Nucleus was $350 when I bought it, and I’d make that choice again at equal prices. However, I’d also have a harder time choosing it over b1-2 when Nucleus is the more expensive one. I suggest finding in depth review videos and spending some hours that way.


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## robgb (Sep 27, 2019)

Quasar said:


> You should at least take a look at Indiginus/Sonic Scores Amadeus, which IMHO is fantastic bang for buck at $149. You get easy to use ensemble patches, but it also covers an entire symphony orchestra so you can get as detailed as you wish. One of the happier library purchases I have ever made. I really like the sound, the simplicity and the low resource footprint. Scripted legato, and most of the usual standard articulations, even if not the most extensive:



I agree 100%.


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## sostenuto (Sep 27, 2019)

vitocorleone123 said:


> That’s probably a tough choice - with no wrong answer. Nucleus was $350 when I bought it, and I’d make that choice again at equal prices. However, I’d also have a harder time choosing it over b1-2 when Nucleus is the more expensive one. I suggest finding in depth review videos and spending some hours that way.
> 
> Edit: you have just a couple more hours to go if you want Nucleus for $400. Intro price ends in just under 4 hrs as I write this (1 pm PST).



Hmmmm. Not sufficient expertise to sort this _yet_ .... as user of BO-I 1&2, The Orchestra Complete, Palette SS, KH, K12U-Symphony Essentials, ..... 
Nucleus seems to be presented as Orchestral Library, to be considered apart from 'sketching' products. 
I want so badly for Nucleus to fill the desire for full Orch lib, most of which are beyond current budget parameters (Berlin, Spitfire, VSL). 
If Nucleus is close enough, then it is a very attractive option.


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## sostenuto (Sep 27, 2019)

robgb said:


> I agree 100%.



Related to my Post above (#30) ..... Amadeus & Nucleus cost (_both_) so very affordable versus 'top-tier' alternatives. OTH, $550. puts a large dent in Intro cost of BBCSO @ $749.

Honestly uncomfortable as full Orchestral Lib solution remains open ..... amidst large set of quality _approximations_ ... 

(_Apologies OP ... waaay divergent from your $400. limitation ..... will cease and desist_)


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## Geomir (Sep 27, 2019)

1) I would stay far away from Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra! Do not be tempted by its price. This is like a beta product, there are notes completely out of tone, no one will tell where the samples are coming from or where they were recorded (because they bought them from other companies), and forget completely about support. I sent them an email and a FB message 2 months ago, and still no reply... No any news or info about possible updates or fixes, this product already seems like an abandonware...

2) I agree with @Wolfie2112 about Play 6: it runs very fast and actually is resource friendly! And the basic interface is really nice when you get used to it. The Browser Tab is very fast and practical to use, i.e. you do NOT need to double-click all the time!! The separate Mixer Tab is also very clear and comfortable, and the Player Tab is - again - very easy to use! Also the convolution reverb of Play 6 beats (at least in options and variety!) anything else I have ever seen in a free program or Player! It's just amazing! Last but not least, it is so comfortable that you can alter various values (i.e. panning, volume control, etc) using your mouse-wheel! Great feature! After getting used to Play 6, I instinctively try to use my mouse-wheel in Kontakt Player or Best Service Engine and nothing happens... Annoying...

3) @vitocorleone123 was really faster than you @mybadmemory ! Man where have you been the last days?? Nucleus was selling for $349, and even if you lost that amazing intro price, it was still selling for $399 up to yesterday!! Now to confuse you even more, I think that Nucleus it's a more "complete" library than the Berlin Inspire(s). It's more than an all-in-one sketch library, you could work with it without the IMMEDIATE need to get something extra (unless you really need harp and piano)! That's my opinion of course! Personally I am after Berlin Inspire 1+2 (mostly because I own EWHO). Good luck with your choice!


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## sostenuto (Sep 27, 2019)

Nucleus now $449. Somehow missed deadline. Too high for this survey /poll !! 

BBCSO slowly coming into focus, despite smashing budget constraints. About to order SSD(s) probalby QVO 2 TB(s).


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## AndyP (Sep 27, 2019)

EWHO is hard to beat for the price, as it has a lot to offer and is the most versatile. But it takes time.

It's a bit overwhelming for a start, but you can get along with it quickly.

For the rest:

It's hard to judge because every library has its strengths and weaknesses. In the end it comes down to what is important to you and what you want to do with it. If you can't buy several, the decision process depends on the purpose.


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## AndyP (Sep 27, 2019)

Kurosawa said:


> EWHO is probably the best value for your money.
> But the Arks are great in what they are supposed to be (I love Ark 2).


That's right, but I wouldn't call the Arks all in one. In any case not considered individually!


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## robgb (Sep 27, 2019)

Geomir said:


> 1) I would stay far away from Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra! Do not be tempted by its price. This is like a beta product, there are notes completely out of tone, no one will tell where the samples are coming from or where they were recorded (because they bought them from other companies), and forget completely about support. I sent them an email and a FB message 2 months ago, and still no reply... No any news or info about possible updates or fixes, this product already seems like an abandonware...


I'm not sure what copy you have, but my copy, while not absolutely perfect (like any library), is lightyears better than what you're describing.


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## Geomir (Sep 27, 2019)

robgb said:


> I'm not sure what copy you have, but my copy, while not absolutely perfect (like any library), is lightyears better than what you're describing.


We have the same copy, there is only one I suppose, we just have different opinions.


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 27, 2019)

With a cap of 400... I’d personally have looked at The Orchestra (which I almost bought until Nucleus arrived at the presale price of 350) as someone who doesn’t know enough about orchestra to make use of dozens of articulations. However, if you do know, then EW on sale still seems competitive.


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## GtrString (Sep 27, 2019)

If you are eligible for an edu licence, Spitfire BBC seems like a nobrainer for an all in one lib under 400..


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## Illico (Sep 27, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Have you checked out EW Symphonic Orchestra? It has a complete orchestra, plus a nice Steinway, harp, and solo instruments.


Yep for EWQLSO-Gold, with 200€ you'll have a full great orchestra sounds but not very good legato...


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## Jeremy Spencer (Sep 27, 2019)

GtrString said:


> If you are eligible for an edu licence, Spitfire BBC seems like a nobrainer for an all in one lib under 400..



It's $600 with the edu discount.


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## Red Room Audio (Sep 27, 2019)

We'd love to see our Palette Symphonic Sketchpad added to this poll, and perhaps others mentioned here, especially since the "Other" category is currently tied for the lead!


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## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 27, 2019)

A question about what is the best library for a certain amount of money should include a consideration of what a library does not have--because you will then have to buy it elsewhere. 

Nucleus and the two Inspires are light on solo instruments. Nucleus only has six--violin, cello, flute, oboe, trumpet, and horn, each with only two articulations. The Inspires have eight-- flute, clarinet, oboe, bassoon, horn, trumpet, cello, violin.

With Amadeus you have all the main solo instruments, with many articulations in a very well-designed interface, and often with numerous variations of each one: 3 trumpets, 4 french horns, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, etc. And it includes some things that don't show up in other sketch libraries: piccolo, english horn, contrabassoon, bass clarinet, alto flute, bass flute

If this is just for learning there is no contest. Amadeus has everything you need for orchestration. 

Nucleus and the Inspires sound a lot better. They are a curation of very high quality sounds. The developers have decided what they think you need the most. I only have the Inspires, and I love them, but they do not satisfy the needs of a composer who wants to write for all, or even most, of the solo orchestral instruments. You can't leave essential instruments out. These two libraries are a good way to get started, they are good to put on a laptop, but if you stick with this, you'll need to get more stuff eventually (although that might be Inspire 3, if it comes out).

To me, the Inspire bundle looks like the best deal because of the current sale, and it being too late for the Nucleus intro price.

But you might consider picking up Amadeus too at some point. It is truly comprehensive. It's only $149 and it wouldn't surprise me to see it go on sale for $100 over Black Friday. I haven't discovered any flaws in it, but I'm not going to argue with somebody who has. But Amadeus was conceived, presented, and priced as something very modest to which each purchaser goes into with realistic expectations. 

To provide a little perspective, Amadeus comes with a Symphony feature that is nearly the same thing as a beloved piece of software by the designer of Amadeus--*Solid State Symphony**.* That sells for $69 and will never be discounted. That's just one thing in Amadeus, among so many others.

Listen to it in the video below and decide for yourself.


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## Robert_G (Sep 27, 2019)

Does Symphobia not qualify?


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## Geomir (Sep 27, 2019)

About Amadeus Orchestra, I would not recommend it to anyone! I had a very bad experience, which was never resolved! If someone wants a great sounding low-priced full orchestra with solo instruments (without true legato of course), still EWQLSO Gold (priced a little more than $200 during common sales) is a million times better library! And there is always someone to reply to your emails, instead of ignoring your every message for more than 2 months.

Back to the poll now, I also agree that it should be fair to add Symphobia(s) and RRA Palette Symphonic Sketchpad to this poll!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Sep 27, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> But you might consider picking up Amadeus too at some point. It is truly comprehensive. It's only $149 and it wouldn't surprise me to see it go on sale for $100 over Black Friday.



Except that it still sounds like a $100 library.


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## Crowe (Sep 27, 2019)

Amadeus Orchestra is pretty great for the 100,- I paid for it. Never had a single issue, but I'm also fully aware of what it is. Which is rather cheap sounding sketching tool.

For truly great orchestral colors and quality I will always take Palette Sketchpad above Amadeus.

EDIT: I actually use Amadeus for when I'm writing in an off-retro style.


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## Quasar (Sep 27, 2019)

Geomir said:


> About Amadeus Orchestra, I would not recommend it to anyone! I had a very bad experience, which was never resolved! If someone wants a great sounding low-priced full orchestra with solo instruments (without true legato of course), still EWQLSO Gold (priced a little more than $200 during common sales) is a million times better library! And there is always someone to reply to your emails, instead of ignoring your every message for more than 2 months.



Yes, you offered this negative opinion of Amadeus earlier in the thread, and I guess it's now doubly valid since you've said it twice.

One problem with these sorts of threads is that they too often turn into general discussions of every library under the sun, regardless of the OP's stated specifications re what they're looking for. I don't have Palette (am impressed by the demos and tempted), but does it offer_ more detail_ than CineSymphony Lite? It seems pretty broad-brush in concept so I would question that. Symphobia, unless on rare sale, is _more than €400_, so probably does not fit as a response to the original question either.

Amadeus, whatever you think of it, checks the OP's boxes regarding both detail and price. Whether the quality and the price point is worth it is entirely subjective, which is why a couple of us have suggested that it should at least be looked at, not necessarily bought. Me, I think it's a great bang-for-buck offering. You and others may think differently.


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## Robert_G (Sep 27, 2019)

Quasar said:


> Symphobia, unless on rare sale, is _more than €400_, so probably does not fit as a response to the original question either.



I believe its been 40% once and 50% twice this year and we still have black Friday and Christmas....
that should be enough to qualify it.


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## Quasar (Sep 27, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Does Symphobia not qualify?
> 
> 
> I believe its been 40% once and 50% twice this year and we still have black Friday and Christmas....
> that should be enough to qualify it.



Point taken. IIRC, neither Project Sam nor Spitfire used to ever have sales, but this has since changed. I have Symphobia 1, purchased for $200-something in summer 2018, and it seems that such sales have become more frequent since then.


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## AndyP (Sep 27, 2019)

Red Room Audio said:


> We'd love to see our Palette Symphonic Sketchpad added to this poll, and perhaps others mentioned here, especially since the "Other" category is currently tied for the lead!


Definitely belong in here!


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## Geomir (Sep 27, 2019)

Quasar said:


> Yes, you offered this negative opinion of Amadeus earlier in the thread, and I guess it's now doubly valid since you've said it twice.
> 
> One problem with these sorts of threads is that they too often turn into general discussions of every library under the sun, regardless of the OP's stated specifications re what they're looking for. I don't have Palette (am impressed by the demos and tempted), but does it offer_ more detail_ than CineSymphony Lite? It seems pretty broad-brush in concept so I would question that. Symphobia, unless on rare sale, is _more than €400_, so probably does not fit as a response to the original question either.
> 
> Amadeus, whatever you think of it, checks the OP's boxes regarding both detail and price. Whether the quality and the price point is worth it is entirely subjective, which is why a couple of us have suggested that it should at least be looked at, not necessarily bought. Me, I think it's a great bang-for-buck offering. You and others may think differently.


1) Palette sure qualifies as an all-in-one, it's exactly that kind of library, and I it offers more patches than CineSymphony Lite. I agree with you I also like the demos, and right now the price is so tempting...

2) Symphobia RIGHT NOW qualifies because it is being sold it this forum for only $200!

3) Amadeus technically does not qualify (for me), it's just not that kind of library! It should be directly compared with libraries like Garritan Personal Orchestra 5, IK Multimedia Miroslav Philharmonic 2 CE, UVI Orchestral Suite and EWQLSO Gold!

If you took your time to read more carefully what the OP is searching for, you would see that he is saying that he is still searching for an all-in-one-library and he is not interested in fully separate sessions. And usually when someone says "I can afford up to $400", you suggest him products near that price. It's like you are going to buy a car and you are able to spend i.e. $20.000, and someone suggests you a car with $8000, maybe it's not the most helpful suggestion. Just saying...


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## AndyP (Sep 27, 2019)

Geomir said:


> 1) I would stay far away from Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra! Do not be tempted by its price. This is like a beta product, there are notes completely out of tone


I don't know how far you've gotten into EWHO, but you'll find lots of bugs there. Not just detuned notes.
Just to put that in a real light, you'll find it in pretty much every library, even the very expensive one.


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## AndyP (Sep 27, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Does Symphobia not qualify?


If it is in sale, but also here all 3 Symphobias are different. Legato is only available in Symphobia 2 und 3.


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## Christopher Rocky (Sep 27, 2019)

@mybadmemory I think it depends whats important to you personally. for me Albion one strings are great, having both the legacy and newer string patches, you have one synthetic and one more 'real' sounding set of strings to choose from. Vib control is important to me, so albion one is a huge plus. but there is no choir and other random instruments. I like albion ones percussion too. Sure its old, but this is the bedrock of spitfires success in a sense, it still holds up well today imo.

Ark 1 is fantastic in that it has lots of other instruments like choir and a band. the articulations are nice and the horns are fantastic. but it is more for louder orchestral music for sure. the plus is theres a bunch of instruments that you dont get in albion one. the only thing i dont like is only having the one string sound in ark 1, and no vib control like in albion. sure the vib xfade in albion isnt the best, but at least it is there and with some tweaking you can get the transitions sounding as real as it can, and albion one can go quiet, unlike ark 1.

Symphobia is great on sale, but theres not much dynamic control, sure it sounds great, but not having that control limits you heavily for use. If you are talking about 1,2 and 3 together, then they work well. but just one of them i wouldn't recommend.

I dont own nucleus, but not having that many articulations would annoy me for spending that much on a lib like that, i personally would pick ark 1/albion over nucleus. i'm not the biggest fan of audio imperias string sound, sounds just that little bit too synthetic for me, but it seems the legato solo instruments is the real bonus with that lib.

I actually think BBCSO is going to be the next big thing. for the money you just cant beat that for what it is. I'm really hoping it lives up to what its offering (say unlike HZ strings did, in that if you own symphonic strings, you got not much new with HZ apart from 100's of gigs worth of mic positions, and bugs on launch)
The BBCSO articulation list, the mic options, and the huge range of instruments. it should make everything else seem so lackluster, its like the 'new' albion one for the next era. I could be totally wrong about it though haha, its just we have to wait for reviews for it, but the intro pricing makes it so attractive! (which i've been swayed by and pre ordered!) but it totally comes down to you and what void you are wanting to fill. becuase the best 'all rounder' orchestral library, at least on paper, is BBCSO, and would be worth the few extra hundred bucks. that is some big buyers remorse if it doesnt pan out that way though, so it comes with that risk of not actually knowing without proper reviews.


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## AndyP (Sep 27, 2019)

The best choice is the one that gives you exactly the sound and the possibilities you are looking for.

We can create a list of all available tools, with all instruments, patches, sections, ensembles, etc.

But this helps only to a limited extent. When it comes to completeness, there is actually only Amadeus in this price segment. Only there are all instruments available. But it doesn't sound as exhilarating as other tools.

I can only recommend to visit all manufacturers and get a picture.
Everyone here has different priorities and expectations for these librarys.
I want a good sound, but I accept limitations regarding variability.

Why not start with a more limited tool that sounds good and can still be used later when other libryrs have been added. Sustainability is the keyword here.

It's also a reason why I don't buy Amadeus, even though I think it's conceptually great.

The best is to make a checklist. What do I want, who offers what. And then decide which library comes closest to it.


----------



## dsblais (Sep 27, 2019)

It's actually kind of too bad that The Orchestra came out with such a fantastic arpeggiation engine. I think there's a way many people have pegged that as TO's only real quality, when the truth is that you get a really nice set of instruments and articulations (as well as the arps and multis) for a fantastic price. A creative composer could get a whole lot of mileage out of that one purchase.


----------



## dzilizzi (Sep 27, 2019)

Robert_G said:


> Does Symphobia not qualify?


Probably not as is. But their Orchestral Essentials would. The Symphobia, while lovely sounding, have some strange combinations for regular playing.


----------



## mybadmemory (Sep 28, 2019)

Thanks so much for all replies! Seriously did not expect this! :D

Perhaps I should be a little more detailed in why I’m starting to feel limited with CineSymphony and what is important / not that important to me.

What I miss most are true legato patches, and solo instruments. I also miss harp and piano since that forces me back to the logic stock sounds for those. But true legato and some solos, especially good flute, would be top of the list!

Mic positions would not be that important. I’m actually happy to just have a great mix sound out of the box. The more I can just play and the less I have to mix, while still getting a near final sound the better.

Ever instrument and section separately is also not that important since I really don’t do proper orchestral arranging but rather some kind of orchestral sounding instrumental music (in the style of old snes jrpgs). A great / more realistic sound with fewer patches would trump every instrument section and articulation separately but less realistic sounding overall for sure. 

Considering this, would you guys lean more toward Inspire 1+2 or Nuclues? (Or still something else?)

Stretching to the current 450$ for Nucleus is fine if it’s actually a better match for me than Berlin 1+2.


----------



## Zero&One (Sep 28, 2019)

Red Room Audio said:


> We'd love to see our Palette Symphonic Sketchpad added to this poll, and perhaps others mentioned here, especially since the "Other" category is currently tied for the lead!



Totally.
And you could add the new Cinematic Rhythms and still be under $400.


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## mybadmemory (Sep 28, 2019)

Red Room Audio said:


> We'd love to see our Palette Symphonic Sketchpad added to this poll, and perhaps others mentioned here, especially since the "Other" category is currently tied for the lead!



Thanks for the tip! Does this have legatos and solo instruments?


----------



## GtrString (Sep 28, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> It's $600 with the edu discount.



Spitfire have 50% edu licences right now, and intro offer on BBC is 749gbp, so seems to me you can get it for about 375 pounds. Am I wrong?


----------



## Geomir (Sep 28, 2019)

AndyP said:


> I don't know how far you've gotten into EWHO, but you'll find lots of bugs there. Not just detuned notes.
> Just to put that in a real light, you'll find it in pretty much every library, even the very expensive one.


Still no tonality problems, no other major problems, only some minor ones, plus 1-2 crushes, and that's all (for now)!

At least I know that if I send an email to EW support, they will reply to me, because it's a serious company behind. They will not ignore my messages and emails for more than 2 months. And at least most of these companies try to fix the problems with updates (you have recently experienced this with v1.2 of RRA).

EDIT: I mean, can't you see it? You say something here about Palette, within 1 hour someone from RRA will reply to you! I asked something about Nucleus Core, and within the next 1 hour I got my reply here from Audio Imperia. From the other side, I can complain all day and night about Amadeus, and NO ONE is here to even defend the library! NO ONE officially even cares! No official support at all! That's enough reason for me not to suggest it to anyone!


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## Geomir (Sep 28, 2019)

mybadmemory said:


> Thanks for the tip! Does this have legatos and solo instruments?


Palette - Symphonic Sketchpad does not have solo instruments with true legato. Its focus is clearly full sessions. But there is another library of Red Room Audio Palette Series that has them: Palette - Melodics.









Palette - Melodics - Red Room Audio


18 inspiring melody-carrying orchestral instruments! 12 of the most dramatic and powerful orchestrated combos plus 6 soloists, as selected from the works of our favorite film and classical composers. Each combo was recorded performing together (NOT artificially scripted!). Up to 9 essential...



redroomaudio.com





You can scroll down a little bit, and click the "Articulations" tab. There you will see with every detail everything you need to know! It's a nice library to combine with Symphonic Sketchpad! I am also considering this nice combination right now, with a total price $298.


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## KEM (Sep 28, 2019)

Recently bought the Inspire collection from NI and I gotta say so far I’m really liking it, especially the harp. Overall I’d say I like it a lot more than Albion ONE but it’s also meant to be used in a completely different context.


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## Crowe (Sep 28, 2019)

mybadmemory said:


> Thanks for the tip! Does this have legatos and solo instruments?



You're going to need the Palette Sketchpad Melodics expansion for 6 solo instruments and a bunch of patches with legato. With the current discount on the main set, that comes to 300,- total.

EDIT: Geo beat me to it.


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## Geomir (Sep 28, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> You're going to need the Palette Sketchpad Melodics expansion for 6 solo instruments and a bunch of patches with legato. With the current discount on the main set, that comes to 300,- total.
> 
> EDIT: Geo beat me to it.


I was faster than you!


----------



## Sovereign (Sep 28, 2019)

GtrString said:


> Spitfire have 50% edu licences right now, and intro offer on BBC is 749gbp, so seems to me you can get it for about 375 pounds. Am I wrong?


Uh yes, the edu discount on BBCSO is 40% off the regular price, not the intro offer.


----------



## GtrString (Sep 28, 2019)

Sovereign said:


> Uh yes, the edu discount on BBCSO is 40% off the regular price, not the intro offer.



Ok, right. Too good to be true, then.


----------



## mybadmemory (Sep 28, 2019)

Listening to demos and reviews I find Nucleus legato patches and solo instruments better than Berlins. Would people here generally agree with that?

Considering legatos and solo instruments are a high priority perhaps Nucleus would be a better option after all. Just a pity it doesn’t include any harp and piano.


----------



## AndyP (Sep 28, 2019)

mybadmemory said:


> Listening to demos and reviews I find Nucleus legato patches and solo instruments better than Berlins. Would people here generally agree with that?
> 
> Considering legatos and solo instruments are a high priority perhaps Nucleus would be a better option after all. Just a pity it doesn’t include any harp and piano.


I can't compare Nucleus to Inspire, unfortunately, but to the Arks. I suppose they use the same technique for legatos, and in my opinion Nucelus is clearly ahead.

What I also like about Nucleus is that you can influence the starting point of the samples to compensate for delays. To be honest, I miss that on all Arks.


----------



## AndyP (Sep 28, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> You're going to need the Palette Sketchpad Melodics expansion for 6 solo instruments and a bunch of patches with legato.


At least I haven't heard a convincing legato yet. But RRA has confirmed that they are working on an update. Only when that will be released is not clear yet.


----------



## Crowe (Sep 28, 2019)

AndyP said:


> At least I haven't heard a convincing legato yet. But RRA has confirmed that they are working on an update. Only when that will be released is not clear yet.



That's quite possible. I really like the package, but we both know you're quite a bit more critical about those things than I am .


----------



## AndyP (Sep 28, 2019)

Shiirai said:


> That's quite possible. I really like the package, but we both know you're quite a bit more critical about those things than I am .


I hope it doesn't all sound too negative what I'm writing, because I'm quite taken with the RRA products, the sketchpad isn't their only product I have.


----------



## mybadmemory (Sep 28, 2019)

So after having listened to demos and reviews all day i'm pretty much in favour of Nucleus over the two Inpires. I just seem to like the overall sound better. For some reason it sounds more realistic to me even though it is more hyped and modern. The legatos do a whole lot i'm sure, and the solo instruments are wonderful. That flute is fantastic! Choir also sounds much better than Berlin in my ears. Perhaps i'm just so used to the modern film / Zimmer sound that i'm easier convinced by Nucleus, whereas the more neutral / traditional Berlin sound makes me more critical towards anything that sounds programmed rather than performed.

Overall i don't feel like i would be missing much in terms of quality with Nucleus while i probably would with the Berlins (in terms of legatos and solos). I also guess it's easier and cheaper to complete Nucleus with piano and harp, than to complete the Inspires with better legatos and solos.

Any recommendations for decent free or cheap pianos and harp that would work sufficiently in an orchestral / instrumental setting?


----------



## DSmolken (Sep 28, 2019)

Ivy Audio Piano In 162, Estate Grand LE. Both have versions which don't require full Kontakt. Orchestral (not folk) harp, no idea.


----------



## sostenuto (Sep 28, 2019)

AndyP said:


> I hope it doesn't all sound too negative what I'm writing, because I'm quite taken with the RRA products, the sketchpad isn't their only product I have.



For me .... it has been fairly clear that adding RRA _ Melodics /Runs & Arps was likely. Cue Builders CR looks desirable as well. 

Nucleus now makes these choices far more difficult. Cool to have such solid options ! 
Already with TO Complete, BO-I(s) ........ 'sketching' overload.


----------



## Fleer (Sep 28, 2019)

The free LABS collection from Spitfire Audio has some interesting pianos:
https://www.spitfireaudio.com/labs/


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## Geomir (Sep 28, 2019)

A nice free harp option:





Etherealwinds Harp







vis.versilstudios.com





A low cost concert harp option:
https://projectsam.com/libraries/concert-harp/
Soundiron's option (47-string grand concert pedal harp):








Elysium Harp


Elysium Harp is a 47-string, 7-pedal grand concert harp with deep sampling for finger plucks, harmonics & xylophonics articulations, and natural live glisses. It offers an intuitive GUI with auto-gliss, pedal control, LFO system, arpeggiator, a modular FX rack with 18 DSP effect, and 20...




soundiron.com


----------



## Mike Fox (Sep 28, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> This just goes to show how libraries are such a personal decision. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum; HS and HB Gold have been by main string/brass libraries since they first released....and have used them in countless productions (although BBCSO may change that). I find Play (especially Play 6) to very fast loading and resource friendly on both PC and Mac. They definitely have a learning curve, but the results are totally worth it if one fully utilizes their strengths. The woodwinds and percussion are not my favourite, but EW Symphonic Orchestra (not Hollywood) is a still good contender for an all-rounder.


100%

HB and HS are some of the best libraries to date, imo.

And the melodic perc in SO is really well done.


----------



## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 28, 2019)

mybadmemory said:


> Thanks so much for all replies! Seriously did not expect this! :D
> 
> Perhaps I should be a little more detailed in why I’m starting to feel limited with CineSymphony and what is important / not that important to me.
> 
> ...



If you are looking for glorious sound out of the box I would recommend the Inspires. You'll find a lot of beautiful legato patches there. Nucleus wins on comprehensiveness; the Inspires wins on sound out of the box.

There are two pianos in the Inspires and they are both great: a Steinway D Grand and a Delicate Piano. I have over a dozen piano libraries to choose from but I play both of these Inspire pianos a lot, particularly the Delicate one, which I use with Inspire 2 and Time Micro. 

Inspire 1 has a concert harp. I like the way it sounds, but it has only one articulation, sustains. There are better harp libraries out there--for a hundred or more, but it's beautiful.

Inspire 2 has a harp ensemble--check that out in the demo and it might be enough to sell you. It has sustains and 5th chords. 

If you're looking for some unusual colors for your music, the Inspires are perfect for that. It's corny and stupid to say it, but the fact is, they are inspiring. You will get ideas from them.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Sep 28, 2019)

Another thing to consider is how each of the ensembles were recorded. Red Room Audio's Symphonic Sketch Pad has each ensemble recorded together in that session, whereas Berlin Inspire combines content from a myriad of different recording sessions.


----------



## dzilizzi (Sep 28, 2019)

TigerTheFrog said:


> If you are looking for glorious sound out of the box I would recommend the Inspires. You'll find a lot of beautiful legato patches there. Nucleus wins on comprehensiveness; the Inspires wins on sound out of the box.
> 
> There are two pianos in the Inspires and they are both great: a Steinway D Grand and a Delicate Piano. I have over a dozen piano libraries to choose from but I play both of these Inspire pianos a lot, particularly the Delicate one, which I use with Inspire 2 and Time Micro.
> 
> ...


Don't say these things. I've pretty much talked myself out of buying this. Just like I did with Nucleus.  Sigh.


----------



## Crowe (Sep 28, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Don't say these things. I've pretty much talked myself out of buying this. Just like I did with Nucleus.  Sigh.



Disconnect from the internet. I know it´s a scary thing, but it´ll help I promise.


----------



## MarcelM (Sep 28, 2019)

in that price range there is nothing that beats the hollywood orchestra, and that one got my vote!


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## Christopher Rocky (Sep 28, 2019)

@mybadmemory Another thing i would mention, the spitfire studio strings, brass, woodwinds, For the price its actually pretty damn good. I got the cheaper versions not the pro, and the strings are REALLY good, BUT i will have to go to pro at some point for the brass and woodwinds, the tree mic is great but have found i really need that close mic for the brass/winds, and you also get a few more legato instruments. BUT the studio strings are really really good with just the tree mic, it sounds amazing out of the box. add your own reverb and you can have a great legato string sound that sounds large. So if your after more individual and legato patches that sound great (+ you get articulations if you need) its really good value for money imo, just another option for ya


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## Sears Poncho (Sep 28, 2019)

ChristopherRock said:


> Another thing i would mention, the spitfire studio strings, brass, woodwinds, For the price its actually pretty damn good.


This.

The core Studio Orchestra is an "investment" IMO. It's solid, it's Spitfire. The price is reasonable. It's also a way to get one's foot in the door if they eventually want to upgrade to pro. I have the pro strings and core for the rest. I find it highly usable yet also a "teaser" to get one to update to pro. The core Orch is 32 gigs, Pro is a whopping 425. But the core is excellent on it's own at an affordable price.


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## ReelToLogic (Oct 3, 2019)

Just FYI - Project SAM's Orchestral Essentials 1 & 2 pack is now priced at just $379.
https://projectsam.com/libraries/orchestral-essentials-pack/


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## cpaf (Oct 3, 2019)

I got the Bernard Hermann Composer Toolkit as my all round library with emphasis on the gritty more upfront less epic-y - i have KU12 and its essential orchestral instruments when i need other things. But im very pleased with the BHCT - fits my style great and inspires me with non-traditional but useful instrument combos.


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## Mike Fox (Oct 3, 2019)

ReelToLogic said:


> Just FYI - Project SAM's Orchestral Essentials 1 & 2 pack is now priced at just $379.
> https://projectsam.com/libraries/orchestral-essentials-pack/


No brainer!


----------



## AndyP (Oct 3, 2019)

cpaf said:


> I got the Bernard Hermann Composer Toolkit as my all round library with emphasis on the gritty more upfront less epic-y - i have KU12 and its essential orchestral instruments when i need other things. But im very pleased with the BHCT - fits my style great and inspires me with non-traditional but useful instrument combos.


It's just 30% off. I'm a real fan of the BHCT and would prefer it to the Arks if I had to choose.
In my opinion it is one of the most versatile packages.


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## sostenuto (Oct 3, 2019)

AndyP said:


> It's just 30% off. I'm a real fan of the BHCT and would prefer it to the Arks if I had to choose.
> In my opinion it is one of the most versatile packages.



Feeling better about abstaining from current promos, and focusing on BHCT for now. 

( _Oops_ ..... HO- Ascend is getting terrific response ). Maybe another piano possibility ??


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## AndyP (Oct 3, 2019)

ReelToLogic said:


> Just FYI - Project SAM's Orchestral Essentials 1 & 2 pack is now priced at just $379.
> https://projectsam.com/libraries/orchestral-essentials-pack/


Pandora is calling ...


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## Geomir (Oct 3, 2019)

Actually ALL Symphobias and Orchestral Essentials, stand-alones or packs, have reduced prices! And I think this is permanent:
"Today we’re introducing new pricing for both the Symphobia Series and Orchestral Essentials Series, making these libraries accessible to even more creative minds!"





Home - ProjectSAM







projectsam.com


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## Holden Sandman (Oct 9, 2019)

Does anyone know if Nucleus supports lightguide on Komplete Kontrol keyboards? Or does it only have basic NKS support?


----------



## Leon Portelance (Oct 9, 2019)

robgb said:


> I'm not sure what copy you have, but my copy, while not absolutely perfect (like any library), is lightyears better than what you're describing.



Agree,


----------



## mojamusic (Oct 12, 2019)

*Miroslav Philharmonik 2
 https://www.audiodeluxe.com/product...armonik-2?mc_cid=8fbd4579f7&mc_eid=873a91313b*


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## dzilizzi (Oct 12, 2019)

Miroslav is actually not a bad starter library. But the new version only runs in Sampletank. It used to be standalone. I believe it works in the free version. Sampletank gets gets some complaints. I have the full version, it is okay. I don't really use it much. It's not as easy to use as Kontakt for me.


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## David Cuny (Oct 12, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Miroslav is actually not a bad starter library. But the new version only runs in Sampletank. It used to be standalone. I believe it works in the free version. Sampletank gets gets some complaints. I have the full version, it is okay. I don't really use it much. It's not as easy to use as Kontakt for me.


Are you sure about it not being a standalone product? The IK Multimedia website says (emphasis added):


> Miroslav Philharmonik 2 is based on SampleTank 3 technology. This means that *you can use it on its own as a standalone instrument or as an additional instrument collection inside of the SampleTank 3 sound and groove workstation itself* — perfect for those more complicated scores and productions that require sounds pulled from SampleTank 3’s massive and expanding universe of sounds.



I believe that's how it worked in the prior version, as well.


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## dzilizzi (Oct 12, 2019)

David Cuny said:


> Are you sure about it not being a standalone product? The IK Multimedia website says (emphasis added):
> 
> 
> I believe that's how it worked in the prior version, as well.


Someone just reminded me it was Miroslav 1 that required Sampletank to run as a 64 bit. I never tried using Miroslav 2's player, mostly because I had better VI's. I think I got it for less than $100 when it first came out as an owner of 1. I wouldn't have bought it otherwise.


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## yassinex (Nov 26, 2019)

Hi there,

I'm having the same questions that the OP... But I'm a very very noob in writing... just starting, I just have NI Symphonic Essentials + Komplete 11U, Noir Piano.
I have a decent Mac Mini 2018 i7 with 32Gb Ram and very fast SSDs...

Now with BF deals, I can see a pack with East West Hollywood Orchestra + Solo Instruments Series (Gold) on sale for $363 !!!

So my question is : For this price ($363), is EW HO+SIS a better choice that Nucleus at $375 (on sale) ? or OT inspire $399 ? is it worth it ?

From what I can read in different forums about EW: Play is a messy app. Loading time are horrible, and it's not sounding good oob, dated UI.... is it really the case with Play6 ?

My objective is to start writing with straight to the point all in one Orchestral VI, with NKS support with my NI KK keyboard, stable , and not too complicated to use....

btw: what about Audio Imperia Jaeger ? any good ?( it's on sale for less that $400)

Thanks a lot for your help guys !!!!


----------



## AndyP (Nov 26, 2019)

Play 6 is fine. I have no issues with it.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 26, 2019)

yassinex said:


> From what I can read in different forums about EW: Play is a messy app. Loading time are horrible, and it's not sounding good oob, dated UI.... is it really the case with Play6 ?



That is all a bunch of baloney regarding Play, I've been using it since it's inception and it's a great sample player. EW sells one of the best orchestral libraries out there IMO; It has a very comprehensive set of instruments and articulations. If you're after NKS, then look at Kontakt libraries. Spend some time scouring YouTube for walkthrough videos of the libraries you've mentioned, and go from there. Also note that EW is now compatible with KK, works like charm.


----------



## AndyP (Nov 26, 2019)

I changed my selection from Nucleus to other. Not because I don't like Nucleus, it's a great library!
But I rather think that VSL Synchron SE 1 or 2 with 1 or 2 + or EWHO for under 500 is the better choice.
More flexibility and good sound, but not as easy as Nucleus.


----------



## Zero&One (Nov 26, 2019)

yassinex said:


> Now with BF deals, I can see a pack with East West Hollywood Orchestra + Solo Instruments Series (Gold) on sale for $363 !!!



For $372 I would go for HO Diamond. I didn't and since regretted it as they rarely do sales on upgrades.
Play works great.


----------



## yassinex (Nov 26, 2019)

Thanks guys for your inputs, appreciated 



James H said:


> For $372 I would go for HO Diamond. I didn't and since regretted it as they rarely do sales on upgrades.
> Play works great.



Diamond for HO + Solo series is sold at $590... ( $230 more than the Gold pack ). 
Is the Diamond version sound quality noticeably better than the Gold ? - Other than Mic positions, which is not something I'm after -



AndyP said:


> I changed my selection from Nucleus to other. Not because I don't like Nucleus, it's a great library!
> But I rather think that VSL Synchron SE 1 or 2 with 1 or 2 + or EWHO for under 500 is the better choice.
> More flexibility and good sound, but not as easy as Nucleus.



Just to make sure I'm comparing Apples to Apples..... Are you comparing Nucleus to EWHO Gold or Diamond ?

I'm trying to stick to my budget ( $400 ), so unless there is really a noticable "sound" difference between EWHO diamond and Gold, I'll go for the Gold version + Solo Series.... or Nucleus is EWHO Gold is not that good...



Thanks for your help !


----------



## Zero&One (Nov 26, 2019)

yassinex said:


> Diamond for HO + Solo series is sold at $590... ( $230 more than the Gold pack ).
> Is the Diamond version sound quality noticeably better than the Gold ? - Other than Mic positions, which is not something I'm after -



The extra mics were what I thought I didn't need either. The 1 default one you get isn't bad by any stretch, but you are lacking in detail without others. I kick myself daily for it... including today! But there are others here who manage well without from reports. But as I say, you won't get the option any time soon, so choose wisely.

I don't own them, but the solo strings don't get much love from what I have read. Maybe someone who has can clarify for you. There's better solo options.

Also, maybe worth holding out on the solo strings if you are just starting out? As writing for them is a different beast... again something I didn't realise until after. Just food for thought, and the EW stuff is on sale every other week.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 26, 2019)

James H said:


> The extra mics were what I thought I didn't need either. The 1 default one you get isn't bad by any stretch, but you are lacking in detail without others. I kick myself daily for it... including today! But there others here who manage well without from reports. But as I say, you won't get the option any time soon, so choose wisely.
> 
> I don't own them, but the solo strings don't get much love from what I have read. Maybe someone who has can clarify for you. There's better solo options.



I've always used the Gold versions, they are just fine. I have the close mic as part of the CC "X" subscription, but have rarely used them. I Diamond you also get bow change...but again, is that something you really need.

Also not a fan of the solo strings. They are "meh". Definitely better choices out there.


----------



## Zero&One (Nov 26, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I've always used the Gold versions, they are just fine. I have the close mic as part of the CC "X" subscription, but have rarely used them. I Diamond you also get bow change...but again, is that something you really need.



Cheers man, I did think it was you but wasn't 100% sure, so refrained from tagging.

Does make me feel better, a bit haha. So you'd say the close weren't worth the price, and more worryingly disk space/performance? I feel like I'm missing out, but I'm probably comparing them to Spitfire libs?


----------



## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 26, 2019)

James H said:


> Cheers man, I did think it was you but wasn't 100% sure, so refrained from tagging.
> 
> Does make me feel better, a bit haha. So you'd say the close weren't worth the price, and more worryingly disk space/performance? I feel like I'm missing out, but I'm probably comparing them to Spitfire libs?



I got a killer deal on CC a couple years ago, some sort of deal where if you committed to an annual subscription you got Gold X. If I want to use close mic's, I just click on the close-mic radio button and it loads. I an't comment on performance, as I only used them a few times. But yes, it takes up a lot more drive space when you download the Gold X versions.

I'm not really a "mic position" guy anyways. Even with BBCSO, I just use the default mic mix. Just finished a major live theatrical production, and Mix 1 was perfect.


----------



## John R Wilson (Nov 26, 2019)

I would probably go for the EWHO. Also, I have heard that the inspires are really good, looks like a great orchestral sketching tool that covers a lot of ground. I'm currently waiting for some kind of sale for the inspires then ill be getting them


----------



## Patrick.K (Nov 26, 2019)

OT Inspire 1 & 2 great tools !.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 26, 2019)

Patrick9152 said:


> OT Inspire 1 & 2 great tools !.



I was thinking of adding those to my toolbox. What is the total disc space for both?


----------



## John R Wilson (Nov 26, 2019)

Patrick9152 said:


> OT Inspire 1 & 2 great tools !.



It certainly looks great. I was disappointed that I missed the NI sale on them :(


----------



## John R Wilson (Nov 26, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I was thinking of adding those to my toolbox. What is the total disc space for both?



I believe they are only around 18 GB each.


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## Robert_G (Nov 26, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Also not a fan of the solo strings. They are "meh". Definitely better choices out there.



Agree 100% with this. If you owned say Joshua Violin or Emotional Violin/Cello or Tina.....you could write 1000 scenerios for solo strings and you would choose HW solo strings 0 times instead of the ones mentioned.


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## mybadmemory (Dec 29, 2019)

I went ahead and bought Nucleus, and actually added the two Spitfire Originals libraries as well, since they were so cheap. So I'm now using those two, and the CineSymphony Lite I already had since before.

What i'm finding is that while all three are starter/core/sketching libraries and would perhaps seem to be covering similar bases, the sound and playability of them differ hugely, to the extent that i really see uses for all three depending on the song or phrase. I guess this is why people end up with so many libraries in the end. That the idea to have ONE library covering all your needs is an ideal that doesn't work well in reality.

Thinking about it like this, I'm actually considering adding Berlin Inspire as well later (next sale perhaps) since I already feel that the three I have are so different. I guess if you're into proper orchestration, expanding into more specialised libraries would make more sense, but if you're mostly into sketching and songwriting like me, I feel that having multiple sketching libraries is a great thing to find the sound / playability you're looking for for a particular song or phrase.

If anyone would be interested in a a written comparison between Nucleus / Spitfire Originals / CineSymphony I could do a quick write-up of those three.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 29, 2019)

For all in one, these are my go to:


Virtuoso Ensembles


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## robgb (Dec 29, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> For all in one, these are my go to:
> 
> 
> Virtuoso Ensembles


Great library.


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## cug (Dec 29, 2019)

mybadmemory said:


> Not really interested in mic positions, fully separate sections, or super hyped epic trailer sound. Basically just want a beautiful bread and butter orchestra, preferably with some solo instruments, and perhaps even a harp / piano as well.


VSL SE 1 and 2 have been my go-to starting point for years. They cover a lot of instruments with a lot of detail and flexibility. You’ll want to put them in a room or stage _and_ then possibly add a large hall for the tails if you want.

For sketching and more, I also recommend the KH Virtuoso library. The VSL and KH libraries aexcellent value tools.
I used Orchestral Essentials 1 and Albion 1/ONE for a time and found inspiration in both but not so much in recent years. Although they both have some unique sounds that I still use sometimes. Lately I find the reverb saturation, especially in Albion ONE to be very distracting. I prefer drier libraries that I can adapt as needed more than the overly reverberant libraries. 

Carlos Garza


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## Vashi (Dec 30, 2019)

mybadmemory said:


> If anyone would be interested in a a written comparison between Nucleus / Spitfire Originals / CineSymphony I could do a quick write-up of those three.



Yes please.


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## mybadmemory (Dec 31, 2019)

Vashi said:


> Yes please.




CINESYMPHONY LITE

On the surface this package only contains Strings, Brass, Woodwinds, Pizzicato, Timpani, and Percussion as full sections. In reality though, all ensemble patches contain both long and short articulations, as well as the individual sections fully separable into their own patches if you wish. The full set therefore includes longs, shorts and pizzicato for violins, violas, celli, contrabasses. Longs and shorts for flutes, oboes, clarinets, and bassoons. Longs and shorts for trumpets, horns, trombones, and tuba. As well as Timpani and Percussion (which also includes tubular bells and glockenspiel with around 1 octave each). The out-of the-box sound is pleasingly realistic, and i find all patches very playable and responsive in terms of dynamics, both over velocity and modulation. What's missing from the package to be a "full" lite / sketching orchestra are solo instruments, tonal percussion like marimba and xylophone, choir and potentially harp and piano. The library also does not contain any legato patches, though the regular sustain patches still sound the most expressive out of the three libraries to my ears.


SPITFIRE ORIGINALS

So far this collection consists of Epic Strings and Epic Brass & Woodwinds (With percussion and potentially more on the horizon). The strings part contain more articulations than the standard Long, Short and Pizz, in the form of Slow, ConSord, Ostinato, as well as long and short Octaves, but the library is full sections only with no option to split them up into separate sections like CineSymphony. Also no legato patches. The brass and woodwinds contain the standard longs and shorts for the full ensembles only. The sound is very reverberant (Air-sounding) and does indeed strike me as very impressive while listened to at first. In use though, I find the patches less playable and harder to use than CineSymphony. The shorts feel a bit too slow to play fast lines, and the loud notes (especially with brass) never go as loud as I would wish. The overall sound feels very soft and airy, which could be great if that's what you're after, but is hard to ever get close, loud, snappy or clear (even with the highest velocities and close mics turned on). Overall i feel this collection could be a good addition as flavour for particular situations, but that it would be harder to work with as a foundation.


NUCLEUS

In terms of completeness. Nucleus is the clear winner of the three. It contains all sections as full and individual, and all of the standard articulations that are usually found in starter libraries. The string sections add tremolo articulations over the other two libraries and the wind section adds trills. There's also a number of combo-patches, as well as legato articulations for the most important melodic instruments / sections. Also included is Choir, Percussion, a Drum kit, and some SFX drones and pad like sounds, as well as Marimba, Glockenspiel, and Xylophone alongside the Timpani. Overall the sound is much more modern and hyped than the other two libraries, which could be good or bad depending on if you like that sound or want a more classic tone. While Nucleus does sound impressive it also has an air of synthetic-ness in that it sometimes sound a bit TOO polished to my ears. I can't really tell if it's a lack of dynamic layers, loops that are too short, or just an overall "too perfect" sound, but It's overall playability and character doesn't fool me in the same way as the others do. Where this library really shines for me is in the solo-instruments, The flute and oboe are truly inspiring to play. The trumpet and french horn works very well in an arrangements, and while the violin and cello does feel weaker than the other I still suspect they could be used to add details to a mix without exposing themselves too much.


CONCLUSION

I already owned CineSymphony Lite and wanted to "upgrade" to either Nucleus or Berlin Inspire. I ended up buying Nucleus as well as the Spitfire Originals (since they were so cheap) and while I am in retrospect still interested in the Berlin Inspire package, I do feel that the combo of Cine + Nucleus gives me what I was after. I do prefer the core sounds (the actual full and separate sections) from Cine Symphony over Nucleus since they feel more responsive to play and a have a more realisic sound, but the additions from Nucleus Solo Instruments, Legato Patches and Tonal Percussion does feel very complementary. All three libraries still miss Piano and Harp so for the moment I'm using the beautiful LABS Soft Piano, as well as the EtherealWinds Harp 2.

If you're after completeness, Nucleus is the clear choice, but in my hands CineSymphony still wins in terms of playability and sound. I also feel that the two complete each other well in terms of content, and by offering two different sounds that still seem to combine quite well. The Originals libraries are a bit of a different thing, but that should be expected with their low price. If i would have started from scratch I would probably have chosen Berlin Inspire today, if I was looking for ONE library only, simply because it seem to cover ALL of the stuff I want (even including Piano and Harp) in a single package (with a beautiful sound) though I obviously can't comment on it's playability since I don't own it. The combination of Cine + Nucleus that I ended up with works well, but in reality the two of them together is almost the price of something like BBCSO, so for the money I ended up spending in total, that would probably have been an even better choice.


All subjective thoughts from a hobbyist though.


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## RPFNYC (Dec 2, 2021)

I am trying to find comparison between these in the list as well as quality.
I tried looking on line for a chart that would have these, but it seems that Google doesn't understand what I am trying to find.

1. - Palette Symphonic Sketcpad
2. - Spitfire BBCSO-Core & Discover
3. - Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra
4. - Nucleus
5. - Jaeger

Red Room: Did a comparison chart but failed to include Spitfire Discover & others from the list above.


https://redroomaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/orchestra-comparison.gif



Also, what do you guys think about the orchestral instruments in IK Multimedia & Native Instruments.
I own Kontakt the regular version. And was window shopping around the net and seen the
IK Multimedia Total 5 Max that includes lots of stuff including orchestral instruments.






Total Studio 3.5 Max, the ultimate collection of authentic sounds and gear


Total Studio 3 MAX - The ultimate software collection of 124 virtual instrument & effects plugins for every stage of music production.




www.ikmultimedia.com





But dont know if its junk or not. So just curiously asking the crowd, for some advice please.
thanks.


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## Markrs (Dec 2, 2021)

Even though this thread is a few years old, there are some good options out there now when on sale.


HO Opus Diamond for less that €400 at JRRShop. 
Steinberg Iconica Opus on sales (a little bit over €400 limit)
BBC SO Core (under the limit) or Pro just over it on 40% sale


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## RPFNYC (Dec 2, 2021)

Sorry, I tried to stay on topic, other forums ridiculed me to posting a new post.
So I found one here that was closets to what I am trying to find out and replied to it.

Also, I tried to go on JRRShop, for some reason my ISP wont let me go there. its weird.
Anyways, If I get BBCSO-Core, is it better than the others I posted on the list?
Thanks.


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## GGaca (Dec 2, 2021)

Nucleus also on sale for 299$ (2 days left i believe).


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## RPFNYC (Dec 2, 2021)

GGaca said:


> Nucleus also on sale for 299$ (2 days left i believe).


And that's why I was asking which one is better in terms of having overall things.
Palette Symphonic Sketcpad is going for $149 right now.
Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra is going for $149 right now.
Or am I covered with BBCSO-Core?

I also don't want people to hear my music and the sounds end up sounding like tonka toys.
(if you know what I mean).


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## Alchemedia (Dec 2, 2021)

RPFNYC said:


> And that's why I was asking which one is better in terms of having overall things.
> Palette Symphonic Sketcpad is going for $149 right now.
> Amadeus Symphonic Orchestra is going for $149 right now.
> Or am I covered with BBCSO-Core?
> ...


BBCSO iCore is easily the best of these 3.


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## GGaca (Dec 2, 2021)

In my opinion the best libraries all-in-one at the moment are Nucleus and BBCSO Core (HO Opus Diamond could be also tempting if it's available for less that €400).
But take my opinion with a grain of salt - i'm not an expert and i own only Nucleus from this list.


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## Markrs (Dec 2, 2021)

RPFNYC said:


> Also, I tried to go on JRRShop, for some reason my ISP wont let me go there. its weird.
> Anyways, If I get BBCSO-Core, is it better than the others I posted on the list?


EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus is similar price at audiodelux.com as well. You need to login and add the item to your cart to get the lower price (discount is auto applied)









EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition


Xmas Week Deal The best-selling and most awarded orchestral virtual instrument ever created Video of Composing with Hollywood Orchestrator




www.audiodeluxe.com







RPFNYC said:


> Sorry, I tried to stay on topic, other forums ridiculed me to posting a new post.
> So I found one here that was closets to what I am trying to find out and replied to it.


No need to apologise, we are all very easy going here. Sometimes 14 year old threads come back alive, sometimes we have multi threads on the same subject happending (though they do get merged), and every thread always go off topic at some point


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## Markrs (Dec 2, 2021)

GGaca said:


> In my opinion the best libraries all-in-one at the moment are Nucleus and BBCSO Core (HO Opus Diamond could be also tempting if it's available for less that €400).
> But take my opinion with a grain of salt - i'm not an expert and i own only Nucleus from this list.


Of those 3 I would definitely take HO Opus Diamond first. Multiple 3rd party stores are selling if for less than €400, though it depends on any sales tax that is applied.


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## mybadmemory (Dec 2, 2021)

I second that either BBCSO, Nucleus, or HOOPUS would be three of the best options today! Palette and Amadeus being less popular options these days. BBCSO sounds classical, Nucleus sounds modern, and HOOPUS sounds like Hollywood. BBCSO and Nucleus are both around 450 at regular price and around 200-250 at sale price. HOOPUS is around 995 at regular price, and around 400-500 at sale price.


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## RPFNYC (Dec 2, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Of those 3 I would definitely take HO Opus Diamond first. Multiple 3rd party stores are selling if for less than €400, though it depends on any sales tax that is applied.





mybadmemory said:


> I second that either BBCSO, Nucleus, or HOOPUS would be three of the best options today! Palette and Amadeus being less popular options these days. BBCSO sounds classical, Nucleus sounds modern, and HOOPUS sounds like Hollywood. BBCSO and Nucleus are both around 450 at regular price and around 200-250 at sale price. HOOPUS is around 995 at regular price, and around 400-500 at sale price.


I am going to have to wait for HOOPUS. Its running for $499,
Unless its cheaper in other places. I didn't look because I'm a dumb dumb lol.
This is why I was also considering Palette Symphonic Orchestra.

I just purchased BBCSO-Core. Got it for $240 just now, because I had Spitfire Discover they gave me discount.


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## Markrs (Dec 2, 2021)

RPFNYC said:


> I am going to have to wait for HOOPUS. Its running for $499,
> Unless its cheaper in other places.


JRRshop has it for $419 if you can get that to work. Once you add it to you cart use the discount code: Group






JRRshop.com | EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition Diamond


EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition Diamond




www.jrrshop.com





Audiodeluxe has it for $448.95 but you get back $22.44 to spend on another product


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