# Behold the lord of usb hubs



## charlieclouser (Jun 7, 2021)

Hub-o-fax? USB-o-fax? Anyway, this is the lord of all USB hubs. Behold the Swissonic USB Hub 1916:






You get these from Thomann for around $150, but they're always out of stock. It's USB3, with 16 (!!!) powered ports on the front, and a single USB2 port with 1amp of power on the rear. I managed to get one, only to discover that even though it has a standard IEC power inlet (no wall wart here), it's set for 220volt operation, and it's NOT an auto-switching worldwide power supply!

But... before I broke down and bought some janky step-up transformer off Amazon, I took a chance and opened it up. Sure enough, the power supply has a switch on the side to determine whether the input voltage is 110 or 220. Flipped it and boom - USA compatibility.

So marvel at its plethora of ports. All shall love it and despair!


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## Bluemount Score (Jun 7, 2021)

Looks decent but I think mine is superior


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## JohnG (Jun 7, 2021)

Suggest an amendment to the thread title: "Behold and Despair, Ye Left-Behinds". 

Or similar.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 7, 2021)

Bluemount Score said:


> Looks decent but I think mine is superior


This thing is the exact same as the one hooking up 4 T5s to my laptop right now. Lol


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## jononotbono (Jun 7, 2021)

This looks amazing! And 220v? Being English I must salute that! God Save the Queen 😂


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## charlieclouser (Jun 7, 2021)

It is a lovely thing, innit? 

I do have a question for those who know their amps + volts:

In hopes of switching the voltage over from Euro to USA voltage, I opened the unit:






And read the specs on the power supply:






Then I noticed this switch on the front side of the power supply, and switched it from 230 to 115:






Plugged it in, turned the front-panel power switch on, and no smoke came out - but I haven't tested it plugged into a computer and a bunch of USB peripherals yet. So here's the question for the volt-masters out there:

The rear panel IEC power inlet has a fuse, and since it's set up for 220v use, the fuse holder itself says "Use only 250v fuse", and printed on the rear panel it says "Fuse: F3.15AL250V".






Now that I've flipped the switch on the internal power supply from 230v to 115v, should I be swapping the fuse as well? What specs should that fuse be? Is it as simple as "F3.15AL*115*V"?

Is there anything in the power supply specs as shown in the second photo that's cause for alarm?

Not that this is a make or break issue but if the correct fuse is a simple $2 Amazon piece, I'll do it.


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## GNP (Jun 7, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> It is a lovely thing, innit?
> 
> I do have a question for those who know their amps + volts:
> 
> ...


Why don't you just try it, and let us know?


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## Bluemount Score (Jun 7, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> This thing is the exact same as the one hooking up 4 T5s to my laptop right now. Lol


I was not even joking, it connects 3 SSDs to my PC as well as we speak


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## José Herring (Jun 7, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> It is a lovely thing, innit?
> 
> I do have a question for those who know their amps + volts:
> 
> ...


Found a nice little article on picking the right fuse. 

I just skimmed it but from what I read the voltage of the fuse just needs to be higher than what it's protecting. So if the voltage of the power supply is now 110volts then 250v fuse should still work.



https://uk.trgcomponents.com/uploads/media/FuseSelectionGuide_RevA_01.pdf


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## Mike Greene (Jun 7, 2021)

I am beholding and despairing. Me needs one of those. _<EDIT> Looks like the "despairing" part is real. They're out of stock. Damn._

<EDIT #2> I deleted my theory on fuses, since it turns out my theory was wrong.


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## MauroPantin (Jun 7, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> Now that I've flipped the switch on the internal power supply from 230v to 115v, should I be swapping the fuse as well? What specs should that fuse be? Is it as simple as "F3.15AL*115*V"?
> 
> Is there anything in the power supply specs as shown in the second photo that's cause for alarm?
> 
> Not that this is a make or break issue but if the correct fuse is a simple $2 Amazon piece, I'll do it.


Hey Charlie. I tend to be on the opposite side of your situation, Argentina uses 220v and most of the equipment I purchase is imported and rated at 110v. So I have a bit of experience. Doesn't hurt also that my old man is an electrical engineer, so I had top-notch consulting on this issue when it first came up with all my gear.

You're okay as you are. In fact it could be argued that having a higher voltage tolerance is actually safer. Fuses have 3 parts for their ratings:

- The F stands for "Fast", which means that in the event of a current flow that is higher than nominal it will act quickly to protect the equipment and the user.

- 3.15A stands for the amps it tolerates before it blows, the amount of current. 3.15 amps in this case. For this, it doesn't matter if you changed the voltage. The PSU you switched has something called a center tap, so you are essentially using half of the running wire in the transformer. Since you have half the available wire at half the voltage, it evens out. You do not want to double the amps, otherwise you may fry it in the event of abnormal operation because the fuse won't act.

- The 250v is obviously the voltage rating as you well guessed. Why have it if you can safely ignore it in this case? Well, it is there to avoid a voltaic arc in the event the fuse blows. As you know, fuses have 2 metal ends and a glass piece in the middle with a wire running in between. When it blows you want to prevent any kind of voltaic arc happening between the ends of the fuse or the blown wire, because that could start a fire, particularly if shit is already hot because of the blown fuse. The voltage rating ensures that the arc does not occur. Since you are using 110v instead of 220v the likelihood of a voltaic arc is theoretically half with a 250v fuse, hence why it could be argued you are a bit safe (although that is a theoretical argument, in practice you can't be twice as safe as 100% safe).

Hope that helps


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## charlieclouser (Jun 7, 2021)

MauroPantin said:


> Hey Charlie. I tend to be on the opposite side of your situation, Argentina uses 220v and most of the equipment I purchase is imported and rated at 110v. So I have a bit of experience. Doesn't hurt also that my old man is an electrical engineer, so I had top-notch consulting on this issue when it first came up with all my gear.
> 
> You're okay as you are. In fact it could be argued that having a higher voltage tolerance is actually safer. Fuses have 3 parts for their ratings:
> 
> ...


Yes, that is very helpful indeed! Thank you! 

I'm glad that the power supply has a center tap design that permits easy voltage switching. Even though I needed to open up the unit to switch it, that's still better than using an external step-up transformer. Because of that power supply design, I am assuming that the unit won't be outputting double the amperage to each USB port, or anything else that's unkind to the connected USB devices. Weird that the PSU isn't an auto-sensing, auto-switching type, but with a price of $149 I am not too surprised.


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## MauroPantin (Jun 7, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> Yes, that is very helpful indeed! Thank you!
> 
> I'm glad that the power supply has a center tap design that permits easy voltage switching. Even though I needed to open up the unit to switch it, that's still better than using an external step-up transformer. Because of that power supply design, I am assuming that the unit won't be outputting double the amperage to each USB port, or anything else that's unkind to the connected USB devices. Weird that the PSU isn't an auto-sensing, auto-switching type, but with a price of $149 I am not too surprised.


I agree. I have several of those step ups (or step down, in my case) and it is not ideal, particularly for audio equipment. They tend to introduce a lot of noise in the set up unless you get the really high end ones.

The way this was explained to me in layman's terms, the power supply will output the correct voltage, and the amperage is actually "requested" by the device you plug in, as in it "draws" current (if that's a term in English?) according to its energy consumption. The rating is just the max availability the device has for the devices you plug in. So you should be okay.

PSUs that have auto switching like the ones on laptops are more expensive, so yeah, it makes sense.

Found one of these in Thomann, by the way, 105 british pounds if anyone else is interested. A bit more expensive because of exchange rates, but I might just pull the trigger. It seems like a great solve for the USB arms-race we all battle.


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## artomatic (Jun 7, 2021)

Any comparable USB hub like this in the US market?


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## Dietz (Jun 7, 2021)

For what it's worth: The DAW-assembling company I trust since two decades now advised strongly against anything above three or four slots for USB 3 hubs, powered or not. Their main engineer eloquently explained to me the technical (electrical) limits of this technology, especially in the light of modern operating systems.

I didn't believe him and bought this switchable powered hub with 7 ports:






...it might be pure coincidence that my brand-new hi-end DAW needed a new motherboard a few days later. 8-P ... Now I'm back to a more modest solution ...


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## charlieclouser (Jun 7, 2021)

artomatic said:


> Any comparable USB hub like this in the US market?


Man, I've been looking and looking. I found a few, some were 10 or 13 ports, some were only USB2, some were $600... that Swissonic one from Thomann was the most ports with the highest spec for the least money.

I think Swissonic is sort of an in-house brand for Thomann, kind of like Samson is an in-house brand for Sam Ash (Sam's Son, get it?).

I read somewhere that the USB hub chipsets that everyone uses are seven ports, so it makes sense that the highest port count I found was 13, which is the equivalent of two 7-port hubs plugged in a daisy-chain. Not sure how Swissonic side-stepped that issue.

The Thomann unit arrived in about ten days and shipping was about $25 or so to Los Angeles. Worth it.


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## charlieclouser (Jun 7, 2021)

Dietz said:


> For what it's worth: The DAW-assembling company I trust since two decades now advised strongly against anything above three or four slots for USB 3 hubs, powered or not. Their main engineer eloquently explained to me the technical (electrical) limits of this technology, especially in the light of modern operating systems.
> 
> I didn't believe him and bought this switchable powered hub with 7 ports:
> 
> ...


That's interesting / distressing info. I did have a couple of 10-port powered USB 3.1 hubs but I stopped using them because they needed to be manually powered on each time the room got powered up, which was weird.

I might go Mac Pro > Belkin 4-port USB3 hub > Swissonic hub just to provide a buffer between the computer and the big hub. But customer reviews on the Thomann site are mostly glowing and laptop jockeys are running all ports with lots of USB-powered controllers like Push, Maschine, keyboards, drives, etc. The only negative reviews report problems with the thermal sensor and fan (why does it have a fan anyway?) but I will be testing it slowly and carefully on spare computers before fully integrating it.

Here's the link on the Thomann site:









Swissonic USB Hub 1916


USB 3.0 Hub and Charging Station With power switch, Front: 1x USB 3.0 Type B and 16x USB 3.0 Type A with status LED, Backside: 1x USB 2.0 Type A, Format: 19" / 1 HE, Weight: 3.52 kg




www.thomannmusic.com


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## Dietz (Jun 7, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> they needed to be manually powered on each time the room got powered up


... that's why I thought the one with the individual on/off switches for each slot might be a good idea. 8-/


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## Tempfram (Jun 7, 2021)

Dietz said:


> For what it's worth: The DAW-assembling company I trust since two decades now advised strongly against anything above three or four slots for USB 3 hubs, powered or not. Their main engineer eloquently explained to me the technical (electrical) limits of this technology, especially in the light of modern operating systems.
> 
> I didn't believe him and bought this switchable powered hub with 7 ports:
> 
> ...


Why did he say it was?


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## Dietz (Jun 7, 2021)

I don't have the proper English terms at hand, but it was about power consumption issues, their management on the main-board, and its handling by BIOS and OS (or their limits, actually). 

However, there was no definite statement whether the burnt motherboard can be attributed to it or not, so it may have been just a random occurrence.


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## Scottyb (Jun 7, 2021)

I've used a cheap (powered) 7 port one from Amazon for years with zero problems. YMMV : )


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## charlieclouser (Jun 7, 2021)

Dietz said:


> I don't have the proper English terms at hand, but it was about power consumption issues, their management on the main-board, and its handling by BIOS and OS (or their limits, actually).
> 
> However, there was no definite statement whether the burnt motherboard can be attributed to it or not, so it may have been just a random occurrence.


I would hope that the Swissonic, with its big internal power supply (not a wall wart), and even a fan (!!!) wouldn't suck so much power from the host that it would cause a problem. At the moment on my 2013 Mac Pro 6,1 cylinder, I have one Belkin 4-port USB3 hub (with AC adaptor power) plugged right into the computer, and on a second port of the computer I have a daisy-chain of USB2 hubs (each with AC adaptor power) that goes Mac Pro > D-Link 7-port USB2 > D-Link 7-port USB2 > Belkin 7-port USB2. Three hubs in series! And it all works just fine, although each hub has its own AC adaptor so they're not pulling too much voltage from the host computer.

With all those USB hubs in my current rig you can see why I wanted a big, 16-port, rack-mounted hub to cut down on the clutter. I'm hoping I can just use the 16-port to host all the controllers etc., and then use the rear-panel USB2 port on that to go to a 7-port powered USB2 hub that holds all the iLok keys and other dongles.

Although the internal fan might be an issue. Maybe I can swap it for a quiet Noctua fan....


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## JohnG (Jun 7, 2021)

I bought a Vantec one: 

Vantec 10-Port USB 3.0 Hub, Aluminum, Full Powered, Mountable, with All Ports Data & Charging Up to 1.5A, BC 1.2, Premium 12V/5A, 60W Power Adapter (UGT-AH110U3-BK),Black​


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## charlieclouser (Jun 7, 2021)

JohnG said:


> I bought a Vantec one:
> 
> Vantec 10-Port USB 3.0 Hub, Aluminum, Full Powered, Mountable, with All Ports Data & Charging Up to 1.5A, BC 1.2, Premium 12V/5A, 60W Power Adapter (UGT-AH110U3-BK),Black​


That looks identical to the ones I got a while back - EXCEPT - the ones I got did not have a toggle-style master power switch - they had a tiny click-y button that was not push-on / push-off. You'd press it to power on, but when you killed power to the rig and powered back up, the hub would be in the off state until you pressed the power button again. Not ideal when the hub is tucked away somewhere. 

But that Vantec one looks quite nice. If the fan (or other issues) on the Lord Of All USB Hubs gives me problems I'll go with the Vantec.


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## José Herring (Jun 7, 2021)

I wouldn't think that a USB hub would blow a mainboard. They are pretty modular and in the event that I've had ports go out both USB and Ethernet it only effect the capacitor right around the port. But the rest of the board worked great. 

That being said, I've just powered off the unused ports on my 7 port USB hub. One can never be too careful


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## storyteller (Jun 7, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> Hub-o-fax? USB-o-fax? Anyway, this is the lord of all USB hubs. Behold the Swissonic USB Hub 1916:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I‘d like to welcome you into the Mandela-effect club that still believes power is rated at 110v/220v and not 115v/230v or even 120v/240v... I also ate Stouffer’s Stove Top Stuffing as a youth and not Kraft Stove Top stuffing. Good to see a fellow alternate-timeliner here. 👍


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## charlieclouser (Jun 7, 2021)

storyteller said:


> I‘d like to welcome you into the Mandela-effect club that still believes power is rated at 110v/220v and not 115v/230v or even 120v/240v... I also ate Stouffer’s Stove Top Stuffing as a youth and not Kraft Stove Top stuffing. Good to see a fellow alternate-timeliner here. 👍


I've seen 110, 115, 120, 220, 230, and 240 used more or less interchangeably over the last 35 years, I have no idea which is correct or official. My wall sockets read between 108 and 114 depending on... who knows what.


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## colony nofi (Jun 7, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> I've seen 110, 115, 120, 220, 230, and 240 used more or less interchangeably over the last 35 years, I have no idea which is correct or official. My wall sockets read between 108 and 114 depending on... who knows what.


You want to be freaked out a little more? Run a meter with load from one of your power sockets and graph it over time. Even in Australia, with a generally very well designed grid, we have some decent fluctuations... like SERIOUS fluctuations. A well known studio here 20+ years ago had a massive room of car batteries which essentially took the power from the grid and spat it back out at a far more steady (clean?) state. Analog gear was far more susceptible to performance/noise issues as a result of power issues than DAWS...

This is from AusGrid's technical documentation over the setup / performance of our electricity network :

(link : https://www.ausgrid.com.au/-/media/...hash=C9AC61391301F48E1F6CCE3F5800A244812FC997 )


> Ausgrid’s objective for the operation of its network is to maintain a target steady state phase to neutral supply voltage (measured as a ten-minute average in accordance with AS 61000.3.100 Limits – Steady State voltage limits in public electricity systems) within the range of 216V to 253V at connection points under normal operating conditions. This range is the nominal voltage range of 230V in Australian Standard AS 60038 Standard Voltages, with a tolerance of +10%/- 6% to allow for voltage regulation within the network. It should be noted that due to system operational constraints and physical network limitations, it may not be possible to maintain the target steady state supply voltage range for all of the time at a given connection point. Where the above target steady state supply voltage range cannot be maintained, particularly under abnormal network arrangements such as may occur during maintenance, Ausgrid’s objective is to maintain a steady state voltage within the range 207V to 262V at all times. This range excludes situations arising from faults or voltage interruptions. Following an Energy Networks Association review in 2011, Ausgrid commenced migration from a nominal voltage of 240V to 230V. Over time, the normal average Ausgrid network voltage will be reduced from around 250V to around 240V.


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## David Kudell (Jun 7, 2021)

As someone old enough to remember SCSI, serial, and parallel printer cables, that hub is a thing of beauty.


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## kitekrazy (Jun 7, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> Hub-o-fax? USB-o-fax? Anyway, this is the lord of all USB hubs. Behold the Swissonic USB Hub 1916:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This would only encourage me to buy software with proprietary dongles just to fill them up.


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## charlieclouser (Jun 7, 2021)

colony nofi said:


> A well known studio here 20+ years ago had a massive room of car batteries which essentially took the power from the grid and spat it back out at a far more steady (clean?) state. Analog gear was far more susceptible to performance/noise issues as a result of power issues than DAWS...


I used to run my whole room off four APC 1500kva full-online UPS units. The full-online versions are more expensive, and the batteries wear out more quickly than the $200 units you see at Office Dumpster, but since you're *always* running off battery power, the output is a pure sine wave that is pretty solid. They weigh a ton though.

The last time they needed a battery refresh I parked them and was always planning on getting the newer models but never got around to it... and it hasn't mattered one bit (knock wood).... yet. They're about $1200 each and I'd need four. They do work great though.

When I was touring in the 1990's we used these monster Sanyo industrial UPS units to power the whole backline. Since we were bringing US-spec gear like Emax and Akai samplers, racks full of guitar pedals and fancy switching systems, etc. it made sense. Those things were the size of a mini-fridge and were ridiculously heavy. But they let you dial in the desired output voltage to 0.1 volts and they would maintain that output no matter what the input was. Copenhagen, Osaka, Wellington, Memphis - it didn't matter. If the whole festival or arena went dark, the samplers stayed loaded. 

In New Orleans the power would go out a couple of times a month for any reason or no reason at all, and our SSL 4k did NOT like it if the power came back on unexpectedly. Before we repurposed those Sanyo UPS units to the machine room down there, if the power went out it was a mad dash to turn off eight buckets of mic pre's, then run to the machine room and turn off two giant towers of SSL brains, then run back to the control room and start turning off outboard racks and tape machines before the power came slamming back on. The DAW machines and samplers were the least of our worries, repair-cost-wise. Since the closest factory SSL tech team was in Memphis, we bought a few plane tickets, airport pickups, and hotel rooms for them when our SSL had its brains fried by good ol' N'awlins power.

Once we put the Sanyo bricks in there the whole room was on battery, except the mains. Only problem was the Sanyo bricks took up every inch of the machine room so it was ugly in there.... and hot.


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## studioj (Jun 7, 2021)

I've been using this one for 18 months without issue and it remembers the status of the power toggles on every boot. Highly recommended! Def the best USB hub I've ever had.

Powered USB Hub - ACASIS 16 Ports 90W USB 3.0 Data Hub - with Individual On/Off Switches and 12V/7.5A Power Adapter USB Hub 3.0 Splitter for Laptop, PC, Computer, Mobile HDD, Flash Drive and More​


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## tmhuud (Jun 7, 2021)

Finally. Something you can rack mount. I may get one. I need it as my current setup to my cylinder is nearly exactly what your doing now.


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## storyteller (Jun 8, 2021)

colony nofi said:


> You want to be freaked out a little more? Run a meter with load from one of your power sockets and graph it over time. Even in Australia, with a generally very well designed grid, we have some decent fluctuations... like SERIOUS fluctuations. A well known studio here 20+ years ago had a massive room of car batteries which essentially took the power from the grid and spat it back out at a far more steady (clean?) state. Analog gear was far more susceptible to performance/noise issues as a result of power issues than DAWS...
> 
> This is from AusGrid's technical documentation over the setup / performance of our electricity network :
> 
> (link : https://www.ausgrid.com.au/-/media/...hash=C9AC61391301F48E1F6CCE3F5800A244812FC997 )


I went through a period of time a few years ago in New York where I kept having external hard drive issues. They’d inexplicably die. Raid enclosures would have a disc fail and need rebuilt. I eventually added a constant UPS like being discussed. I never had another issue. Turns out the power would fluctuate heavily like this and the UPS was the only way to prevent these “brown outs.” ...but even then not all UPSs do this.


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## wst3 (Jun 8, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Found a nice little article on picking the right fuse.
> 
> I just skimmed it but from what I read the voltage of the fuse just needs to be higher than what it's protecting. So if the voltage of the power supply is now 110volts then 250v fuse should still work.
> 
> ...


a power supply provides a certain amount of power, in Watts, and it doesn't care about the input voltage to deliver that wattage. What does change is the current delivered, AND, fuses are designed to protect against too much current being requested.

The voltage rating on a fuse is just that and as long as it is equal to or greater than the supply voltage you are good to go. In fact it is difficult to find a fuse that is rated at less than 250V, no idea why.

The current rating is the one to watch for. If your power supply can safely provide 1A of current then you want to fuse it at or slightly below 1A to protect the power supply.

if your device can only draw 0.5A it might make sense to fuse it at 0.5A. You can always go lower (with the attendant risk of blowing the fuse) but you should never go higher, and wrapping silver foil around a dead fuse is a really bad idea.

Here's an interesting tidbit - when a device has a short circuit it will draw an infinite amount of current. It will, in fact, try to draw more than the supply can source. And it happens pretty quickly. So you could, in a pinch, use just about any fuse because if the event of a dead short circuit any fuse will blow. Not the greatest idea in the world, but it can salvage a gig from time to time.

And for the gluttons for punishment some fun math:

You power supply is rated at 40A at 5VDC - power = voltage * current, so the max output from your power supply is about 200 Watts.

The input is rated at 4A at 120VAC, or 2A at 220VAC - in both cases the power supply requires about 440 Watts in to deliver 200 Watts out, it operates at about 50% efficiency, which is not all that bad for a linear power supply. Also note that at double the input voltage it draws half the current.

Sometimes science can be fun<G>


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## charlieclouser (Jun 8, 2021)

wst3 said:


> Sometimes science can be fun<G>


Great info, thanks! In theory, I learned all that stuff in school, but as the wise man Phillip J. Fry said, "Time makes fools of us all".


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## Justin L. Franks (Jun 8, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> The rear panel IEC power inlet has a fuse, and since it's set up for 220v use, the fuse holder itself says "Use only 250v fuse", and printed on the rear panel it says "Fuse: F3.15AL250V".
> 
> Now that I've flipped the switch on the internal power supply from 230v to 115v, should I be swapping the fuse as well? What specs should that fuse be? Is it as simple as "F3.15AL*115*V"?
> 
> ...


The fuse *might* blow, because the power supply can pull 4 amps from the wall. Look at the input specs on the power supply. 100-120V ~ 4.0A, 200-240V ~ 2.0A.






So the fuse was chosen for 220V operation (amperage is halved when you double the voltage). It won't be dangerous, the fuse just could blow if the power supply needs the full 4 amps.


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## Justin L. Franks (Jun 8, 2021)

wst3 said:


> The current rating is the one to watch for. If your power supply can safely provide 1A of current then you want to fuse it at or slightly below 1A to protect the power supply.
> 
> if your device can only draw 0.5A it might make sense to fuse it at 0.5A. You can always go lower (with the attendant risk of blowing the fuse) but you should never go higher, and wrapping silver foil around a dead fuse is a really bad idea.


It's common for the fuse to have a slightly higher amp rating than what the power supply is designed to pull. Hence the 3.15A rating even though the power supply's input @ 220V is only 2 amps. Otherwise, the short transient when the unit is switched on could blow the fuse.


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## mussnig (Jun 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> This thing is the exact same as the one hooking up 4 T5s to my laptop right now. Lol



How did you manage to do that? Even when connecting this little hub to a power supply (via the micro USB port) I couldn't get it to run even 2 external harddrives. They simply didn't get enough power.


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## doctoremmet (Jun 8, 2021)

No idea? Just works with 3 T5 and 1 T7 on my Asus laptop. No extra power needed


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## mussnig (Jun 8, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> No idea? Just works with 3 T5 and 1 T7 on my Asus laptop. No extra power needed


Are you kidding me? Without extra power? Maybe it was because I was testing this on my Surface Pro 4 - I guess it can only deliver at most 5 Watt via it's USB port (probably only USB 3.0) ...


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## Alex Sopala (Jun 8, 2021)

artomatic said:


> Any comparable USB hub like this in the US market?


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G2L3QY3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (Here's mine.) Only 13 inputs though (still way more than enough for my needs).


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## tmhuud (Jun 8, 2021)

I’d considered that at one time. All the ports still working?


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## Tralen (Jun 8, 2021)

mussnig said:


> Are you kidding me? Without extra power? Maybe it was because I was testing this on my Surface Pro 4 - I guess it can only deliver at most 5 Watt via it's USB port (probably only USB 3.0) ...


I would be really worried about drawing the power for 4 USB devices from a single USB port, if I understood correctly.

900mA is the maximum spec for a USB 3.0 port (500mA for USB 2.0), so that is the maximum the hub can provide without external power. And a_ single_ USB 3.0 external hard drive already uses 900mA, according to their specs.

In fact, Anker itself advises not to connect more than a *total* of 900mA to the hub.


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## Justin L. Franks (Jun 8, 2021)

A Samsung T5 draws 560 mA when active, and 80 mA when idle. As long as only one of the drives is being used, with an occasional short burst of two drives active, it would work.

Of course, the best solution to connect multiple SSD's is to get a USB hub with its own power supply that can simultaneously give every SSD the full amount of power it needs.


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## mussnig (Jun 8, 2021)

Tralen said:


> I would be really worried about drawing the power for 4 USB devices from a single USB port, if I understood correctly.
> 
> 900mA is the maximum spec for a USB 3.0 port (500mA for USB 2.0), so that is the maximum the hub can provide without external power. And a_ single_ USB 3.0 external hard drive already uses 900mA, according to their specs.
> 
> In fact, Anker itself advises not to connect more than a *total* of 900mA to the hub.


Yes, this I figured after using two drives didn't work. Hence I was so curious how others could use it with multiple drives.


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## mussnig (Jun 8, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> A Samsung T5 draws 560 mA when active, and 80 mA when idle. As long as only one of the drives is being used, with an occasional short burst of two drives active, it would work.
> 
> Of course, the best solution to connect multiple SSD's is to get a USB hub with its own power supply that can simultaneously give every SSD the full amount of power it needs.


In fact you can give additional power to the little Anker hub ...


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## doctoremmet (Jun 8, 2021)

Tralen said:


> I would be really worried about drawing the power for 4 USB devices from a single USB port, if I understood correctly.


No worries. I hardly ever use all four. I have just one main 2Tb T5 - hooked up via USB C. But I have on occasion succeeded to hook up four.


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## Frederick (Jun 9, 2021)

My setup has two powered 7 port USB hubs, both were relatively cheap at about 35 Euros each. One is a Deltaco and the other a tp-link. I have hooked up 3 SSD drives to each and I've made sure before I bought each hub that the power supply would be strong enough to handle at least 3 drives simultaniously. When I connect a 4th USB drive to one hub I'm starting to get problems with the drives.

My laptop has 4 USB 3 ports of which 1 is USB-C. I'm using the USB-C port for my 7th SSD. Two ports for connecting the hubs and the last is used for connecting my Roland Fantom 8, which also serves as my audio interface. My eLicenser, iLok, mouse, Korg NanoKontrol 2 and MODX6 are connected to the USB hubs. The MODX6 is mainly used as a control surface. When I want to use it for sound I need to connect it to one of my laptop's ports, because audio and hubs don't go well together.

I have to confess that USB port speeds and SSD drive speeds seem to keep confusing me. My guess is that having drives that can read up to 1000 MB p/s and in one case even 2000 MB p/s and support 10GBit p/s USB 3.2 gen 2 is overkill. They aren't really used to their maximum when the hub is only capable of USB 3.0 (5 GBit p/s) and has to handle multiple devices simultaneously. I got the faster drives anyway, because 1) I wasn't sure about the performance benefit and 2) I figured they may outlive my laptop and 3) there are going to be faster hubs available in the future.


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## Fab (Jun 9, 2021)

Bluemount Score said:


> Looks decent but I think mine is superior


Got one of those, pretty awful transfer rates on my system. Noisy too! Piece of ****


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## Bluemount Score (Jun 9, 2021)

Fab said:


> Got one of those, pretty awful transfer rates on my system. Noisy too! Piece of ****


Works for me. Noisy? I might be deaf


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## wayne_rowley (Jun 9, 2021)

So many ports... feeding one USB bus!


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## Fab (Jun 9, 2021)

Bluemount Score said:


> Works for me. Noisy? I might be deaf


Hi, I found the hub had a much slower transfer rate, of around 35mb/s vs 150mb/s from the main board. 
Noisy because of the glitchy electrical noise I hear when it’s reading/writing.


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## mussnig (Jun 9, 2021)

Fab said:


> Hi, I found the hub had a much slower transfer rate, of around 35mb/s vs 150mb/s from the main board.
> Noisy because of the glitchy electrical noise I hear when it’s reading/writing.


That doesn't sound right. I guess it's broken and is just able to use USB 2 speeds.


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## Fab (Jun 9, 2021)

mussnig said:


> That doesn't sound right. I guess it's broken and is just able to use USB 2 speeds.


Probably, I still use it for e-licenser and ilok.


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## colony nofi (Jun 9, 2021)

Funnily enough, after reading this thread, I got a call about a project I'm working on - talking about massive amounts of USB ports. We have a situation where we need 100 outlets over a distance of about 13 or so meters in order to remote control a whole bunch (ahem - 100) eizo monitors. Turns out it looks possible... if we figure anything mind blowing out, I'll report back.


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## charlieclouser (Jun 9, 2021)

JohnG said:


> I bought a Vantec one:
> 
> Vantec 10-Port USB 3.0 Hub, Aluminum, Full Powered, Mountable, with All Ports Data & Charging Up to 1.5A, BC 1.2, Premium 12V/5A, 60W Power Adapter (UGT-AH110U3-BK),Black​


Thanks for the recommendation - I picked up a couple and they look quite nice. Before this round of re-USB-ification, I had a whole flock of tiny, plastic D-Link and Belkin hubs, so between the Lord Of The Hubs and a couple of the Vantecs, I should have more ports with about half the wall warts. I will keep a single, plastic, D-Link 7-port USB2 hub on each computer to handle dongles, but use the Lord and the Vantecs for all other USB devices.

Nice one John!


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## charlieclouser (Jun 9, 2021)

As a side note, I finally educated myself (with 10 seconds of Googling) about the differences between USB 3.0 / 3.1 / 3.2 gen 1 / 3.2 gen 2 / 3.2 gen 2x2. According to the website I found:









USB Type-C and USB 3.1, USB 3.2, USB4 and USB4 V2 Explained


The Universal Serial Bus (USB) port is perhaps the most commonly used and easily recognizable PC connectivity standard found on modern hardware. But as universal as the rectangular port and its various data transfer standards are, things have changed with the introduction of USB Type-C. The...




www.onlogic.com





It shakes out like this:

USB 3.2 Gen 1 used to be called USB 3.0. It offers a transfer rate referred to as SuperSpeed 5 Gbps, which is about 10 times faster than the USB 2.0 standard.
USB 3.2 Gen 2, used to be called USB 3.1 released in July 2013. It offers the SuperSpeed 10 Gbps over the existing USB-A and USB-C connectors (twice the rate of USB 3.2 Gen 1.)
USB 3.2 Gen 2×2, released in September 2017 is available only for USB-C connectors using two-lane operation, It offers SuperSpeed 20 Gbps.
So, in layman's terms:

• USB 2 = 500mbps = half a Giga*BIT* per second = 62.5 megabytes per second.

• USB 3.0 = USB 3.2 gen 1 = SuperSpeed 5Gbps = five Giga*BIT*s per second = 625 megabytes per second.

• USB 3.1 = USB 3.2 gen 2 = SuperSpeed 10Gbps = ten Giga*BIT*s per second = 1.25 gigabytes per second.

• USB 3.2 gen 2x2 = USB-C (two-lane) = 20Gbps = twenty Giga*BIT*s per second. = 2.5 gigabytes per second.

Unless I'm mixing up the abbreviations for GigaBITS and GigaBYTES? Which is quite possible.... (edit, yes I did mix them up, but I have corrected the figures and these should be correct I hope.)


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## rhizomusicosmos (Jun 9, 2021)

Yes, it's GigaBITS.

And now there's Thunderbolt 4 and USB4 on the same USB-C connector which offer up to 40 Gbps.


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## mussnig (Jun 9, 2021)

charlieclouser said:


> As a side note, I finally educated myself (with 10 seconds of Googling) about the differences between USB 3.0 / 3.1 / 3.2 gen 1 / 3.2 gen 2 / 3.2 gen 2x2. According to the website I found:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, these rates are Megabits and Gigabits per second. Also, there is always some protocol overhead to take in account, so the actual theoretical maximal transfer rate for reading or writing data is again a bit slower.

Especially for USB 2 the 480 Mbit/s correspond to 60 MByte/s but when really copying data you usually get at most 30-40 MByte/s (I think I never got more than 35). If I recall correctly, the ratio between real-life and theoretical transfer rates is better for USB 3.x though.


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## classified_the_x (Jun 15, 2021)

That looks nice.

I'm using 3 hubs atm, the most versatile is a Wavlink 7 port usb type-C hub... currently running it with 2 HDs but i think I could put more if I wanted... since it's USB-C don't even need external power. but I use a good PSU in my pc

dirty cheap too, like $20-30 in the US perhaps


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## osterdamus (Jul 4, 2021)

In case anyone is interested, I was directed to this 7 port USB 3 gen 2 (10Gbps), powered hub yesterday:


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## Kent (Jul 15, 2021)

just came across this one, but know nothing about it.

Seems to be part of a genre:


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## khollister (Jul 15, 2021)

kmaster said:


> just came across this one, but know nothing about it.
> 
> Seems to be part of a genre:



I have the AGEEN one in the screenshot above on my iMac Pro and it works flawlessly - dongles, synths, midi controllers, HDD’s for backup, etc. I suspect they are all basically the same design coming from the same Chinese factory.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 7, 2021)

^ This one just took a big crap. My MIDI interface stopped working and I was confused because some of the USB ports work. Sort of.

The one I just ordered looks convenient, so we'll see:



I never took USB hubs seriously, because they just sort of sit there and work - until, in this case, they don't.


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## KEM (Oct 8, 2021)

I have two of these and they’re great, super cheap and they have ethernet ports for my VEP slave machines


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## tmhuud (Oct 8, 2021)

i think I've just about everything out there Nick. Including a few of those iDsonix's. There all crap. lol. I've had crashes due to crap hubs. i'd really like to see someone make something reliable for power users. (well....for everyone really!)


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## samphony (Oct 8, 2021)

The only hub that worked for me reliably so far is the Elektron Overhub. I’ve a couple of them and all my disconnection issues are gone since!

@charlieclouser 
Is the swissonic still holding up?


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## dzilizzi (Oct 8, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> ^ This one just took a big crap. My MIDI interface stopped working and I was confused because some of the USB ports work. Sort of.
> 
> The one I just ordered looks convenient, so we'll see:
> 
> ...



I have one like the white one you are getting and it has been working well. Of course, I'm not full time using it, but my computer is on a lot. 

Edit: I don't think it is a dysonic though. I swear they put a bunch of different names on them and see what sells.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 9, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I have one like the white one you are getting and it has been working well. Of course, I'm not full time using it, but my computer is on a lot.
> 
> Edit: I don't think it is a dysonic though. I swear they put a bunch of different names on them and see what sells.


It's actually silver - aluminum to match the Mac that's on the other side of a wall. 

And it just got here, so I'll see how well it fares. If it's like the one that failed, it'll be fine for a couple of years until it isn't.


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## charlieclouser (Oct 9, 2021)

samphony said:


> The only hub that worked for me reliably so far is the Elektron Overhub. I’ve a couple of them and all my disconnection issues are gone since!
> 
> @charlieclouser
> Is the swissonic still holding up?


Yes, the Swissonic is working fine so far. It's on my main Logic machine, a Mac Pro cylinder. I've also gotten a couple of Vantec metal brick-style 13-port hubs from Amazon that were easier to mount in the tight space on the back of my desk, and these have been fine as well.


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## Pier (Oct 9, 2021)

I've been using this Sabrent powered USB3 hub for 2 years now.






No complaints at all. Sits under my desk and hasn't failed once.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 11, 2021)

Pier said:


> I've been using this Sabrent powered USB3 hub for 2 years now.
> 
> 
> 
> No complaints at all. Sits under my desk and hasn't failed once.



I'm not saying I expect yours to fail, and of course I hope it doesn't.

But a few days ago I would have posted the same thing about the one I just replaced - because it did fail once.


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## wst3 (Oct 12, 2021)

In case folks are curious, there are a number of limits to USB that are not commonly "advertised".

The spec limits the number of "tiers" to 7 - and tiers is basically hubs. There computer represents one (or more) tiers. The end point also represents a tier. So it is more than good idea to limit the number of hubs to five. I'd kinda the law!

Which makes a big multi-port hub seem like a no-brainer. And it can be, but it depends on the chip sets used. If they had to create multiple tiers to provide all those ports you could get in trouble.

The other consideration is power budget. Sadly I do not remember the specifics, since so far I've yet to be bitten by power problems. But I have been bitten several times by that number of tiers rule<G>.


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## Noeticus (Oct 12, 2021)

Pier said:


> I've been using this Sabrent powered USB3 hub for 2 years now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I too use this.


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## macmac (Oct 12, 2021)

kmaster said:


> just came across this one, but know nothing about it.
> 
> Seems to be part of a genre:



After having used multiple powered hubs and having issues, I replaced them with one of those above. Have been using it for a couple years now, works great.


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## Hendrixon (Oct 13, 2021)

MauroPantin said:


> The PSU you switched has something called a center tap, so you are essentially using half of the running wire in the transformer. Since you have half the available wire at half the voltage, it evens out.


How old is your old man?  
Its a switching transformer, there is no old school "iron core" transformer in there.
Which means there is no center tap or half wire... hell even center tap transformers are considered old school in transformer design.
I'm no engineer, but one of my loves is building and designing tube/valve amps... old school style  




MauroPantin said:


> You do not want to double the amps, otherwise you may fry it in the event of abnormal operation because the fuse won't act.


Actually for max operation the fuse should be able to handle double the current since we've halved the voltage. still, there is no harm in using the installed fuse as I don't see how in average use all 16 ports will draw full power in the same time.

Worst case, fuse will blow and can be replaced for a higher amp one, no physical harm will happen, but who wants that in the middle of a session?
Personally? I'd email Swissonic.


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## becolossal (Dec 13, 2021)

Weird necro of this thread, but anyone have any issues with noise on any of the recommended hubs here? I usually run pretty lean, but just added a Monogram CC to my gear list. Grabbed an old Amazon Basics USB hub I had (7-ports, powered) and my iMac Pro just makes the most awful high pitched noise when it is plugged in and powered on.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 13, 2021)

becolossal said:


> Weird necro of this thread, but anyone have any issues with noise on any of the recommended hubs here? I usually run pretty lean, but just added a Monogram CC to my gear list. Grabbed an old Amazon Basics USB hub I had (7-ports, powered) and my iMac Pro just makes the most awful high pitched noise when it is plugged in and powered on.


I'm on Windows and never have had a problem. But I also don't normally run the midi controllers through the hub.


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## becolossal (Dec 13, 2021)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm on Windows and never have had a problem. But I also don't normally run the midi controllers through the hub.


I get the noise as soon as it's powered on with nothing plugged into it :(


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## Pier (Dec 13, 2021)

becolossal said:


> Weird necro of this thread, but anyone have any issues with noise on any of the recommended hubs here? I usually run pretty lean, but just added a Monogram CC to my gear list. Grabbed an old Amazon Basics USB hub I had (7-ports, powered) and my iMac Pro just makes the most awful high pitched noise when it is plugged in and powered on.


I've had random high pitched noises on my iMac but they weren't related to using a USB hub. It only happens on the internal iMac speakers themselves, not when using headphones or when using an external audio interface.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 13, 2021)

Could be the hub is interfering with the hardware addresses. I am blanking on what they are called for some reason. But I'm sure someone understands what I'm saying?


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## JohnG (May 30, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> Behold the Swissonic USB Hub 1916


Is this still the best thing out there? I have a pretty good one but (somewhat to my horror) I need more USB ports.

Separately, since a year has passed since this thread started, I was wondering if there’s something even better, such as a thunderbolt connected (to the Mac Pro) with multiple USB 3.1 outs?

Here’s one that looks pretty good:


Powered USB Hub Rosonway Aluminum 13 Port USB 3.1 Hub up to 10Gbps with 72W (12V/6A) Power Adapter and Individual Switches, Type A and Type C Cables, USB C Hub Expander for PC and Laptop (RSH-A13)​It’s about $66 on Amazon


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## charlieclouser (May 30, 2022)

JohnG said:


> Here’s one that looks pretty good:



That one looks pretty good! I haven't had any issues with either the giant rackmount hub or the metal 13-port Vantec hubs that I also got around the same time. I haven't needed to shop for hubs since....

The only thing to watch out for is that the hubs don't have a power switch that needs to be pushed each time they are powered up - the first hubs I got were like this, and because they were mounted in an inconvenient location this was a drag. If the power switch is a simple toggle that stays on or off, fine - but the ones I got had a tiny, click-y button that would reset to "off" every time power went away. Not ideal.


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## rhizomusicosmos (May 30, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> The only thing to watch out for is that the hubs don't have a power switch that needs to be pushed each time they are powered up - the first hubs I got were like this, and because they were mounted in an inconvenient location this was a drag. If the power switch is a simple toggle that stays on or off, fine - but the ones I got had a tiny, click-y button that would reset to "off" every time power went away. Not ideal.


Yes, I have this problem with an Orico hub that has a momentary switch on the back. Every now and then I start up a program that relies on a dongle for authorisation and it gives an error that said dongle is not connected -- need to reach to back of computer rack in equipment soffit and press the switch on hub to power it on. PITA!


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## synergy543 (May 31, 2022)

I bought the Rosonway 13-port hub and it gets pretty hot. I had some drives drop off the network although I'm not certain it was due to the Rosonway. Anyways, I moved back to using two 7-port Anker hubs which have proved to be very reliable over the years. I haven't spent time yet to test the Rosonway yet. Even with nothing plugged in, it seems excessively hot. It might be going back to Amazon.


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## osterdamus (May 31, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> I bought the Rosonway 13-port hub and it gets pretty hot. I had some drives drop off the network although I'm not certain it was due to the Rosonway. Anyways, I moved back to using two 7-port Anker hubs which have proved to be very reliable over the years. I haven't spent time yet to test the Rosonway yet. Even with nothing plugged in, it seems excessively hot. It might be going back to Amazon.


Did the Anker hubs add any buzz to your studio monitors? 

I recently got a 7 port usb hub and it adds significant buzz when it’s connected to my MacBook Pro. Can’t remember the name, it was cheap, and I think I might have gotten it a bit _too_ cheap. So I’m considering upgrading to Anker or the like.


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## synergy543 (May 31, 2022)

No, the Anker hubs have never transmitted any hum or buzz to my monitors (unbalanced). I've used six or seven Anker 7-port hubs in my studio for several years without any issues. Our company builds USB hubs (for phone testing), and the quality can vary tremendously. The Anker 7-port is what we've used almost exclusively on our own computers. When I showed our engineer the 13-port he smiled, and asked how it works (I still can't say other than it gets extremely hot). Our company builds 32-port servers but they are cost several thousands of dollars and have have extensive cooling and many computers inside.

Also, you might also consider using balanced cables going to your monitors and that should eliminate most sources of transmitted hum.


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## tmhuud (May 31, 2022)

charlieclouser said:


> That one looks pretty good! I haven't had any issues with either the giant rackmount hub or the metal 13-port Vantec hubs that I also got around the same time. I haven't needed to shop for hubs since....
> 
> The only thing to watch out for is that the hubs don't have a power switch that needs to be pushed each time they are powered up - the first hubs I got were like this, and because they were mounted in an inconvenient location this was a drag. If the power switch is a simple toggle that stays on or off, fine - but the ones I got had a tiny, click-y button that would reset to "off" every time power went away. Not ideal.


Just ‘hot wire’ them. That’s all all I did in the past for rackmount stuff. I still haven’t found the perfect hub. Out of the 8 Ankers I have now every now and then a port just konks out. No idea why.


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## HCMarkus (May 31, 2022)

osterdamus said:


> I recently got a 7 port usb hub and it adds significant buzz when it’s connected to my MacBook Pro.


Look into ground loops created by some attached, powered gear. Try flipping 2-conductor power supplies or lifting grounds for 3-conductor supplies. 

Back a few years, I found I had to cut the ground wire of the USB cables connecting my Yamaha Motif ES6 and S90ES to kill hum/buzz. Worked fine, as other paths (audio connections) provided the required ground.

I should also mention that powered hubs are often troublesome. Sure, sometimes we need 'em, but issues can arise. One example: My Cyberpower UPS would crash when I had its USB port connected via a powered hub that did not power down when I shut my computer down. The USB hub continued to feed power to the UPS' USB port, and that wreaked hook with the UPS. Connecting to a non-powered hub solved that problem.


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## curry36 (Jun 9, 2022)

Also looking for a new hub - after some reading here, these could be options: 


ACASIS USB 3.0 Hub, with 16 Ports, 90W



Vantec USB 3.0 Hub, Aluminum, with 10 Ports, 60W



Rosonway USB 3.1 Hub, Aluminium, with 13 Ports, 72W



I'd love to use a big one instead of more smaller ones, but I'm curious if 90W will be enough for 16 ports (in case of the ACASIS). Not every port will be used for a dongle or some MIDI transmission. The flexibility to go in with some additional SATA hard drives (which could easily drain 20W each) is important to me. 

The Vantec looks pretty awesome - thats a plus (not saying that it is too much of a factor). Here I'm just curious about the On/Off swiches, as somebody stated in this discussion that this is to take care of. (anybody knows if they don't turn off after shutdown?)

And with the Rosonway I'm liking extra speed of USB 3.1 there. 


Difficult to decide. Any ideas to my thoughts?


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## HCMarkus (Jun 9, 2022)

For iLok, Waves, external SSDs, powered HDs and UPS, I use several non-powered hubs. As noted above, I had issues with the UPS on a powered hub. I also lost a flash drive with Waves authorizations connected on a powered hub.

With my Mac Studio, I use a powered hub for my MIDI controllers, Shuttle Xpress, and bluetooth/Logitech dongles only.


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