# Lars wanting to sell riffs on eBay?



## Nathan Allen Pinard (Oct 24, 2013)

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/metallica-bands-could-buy-our-leftover-riffs-we-have-more-than-we-can-handle/ (http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news ... an-handle/)

Unless they record these, they can't do this....right?


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## RiffWraith (Oct 24, 2013)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Thu Oct 24 said:


> Unless they record these, they can't do this....right?



Why can't they? Of course they can.


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## ed buller (Oct 24, 2013)

oh they just walk into it don't they !

e


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## KingIdiot (Oct 24, 2013)

didn't sabbath or someone release a riff sample library? That seemed to go over well enough. Lars is just one of those dudes who has foot in mouth syndrome sometimes.

I could totally see a Metallica sample library doing really well. Someone needs to reach out to them and put one together. Talk it over at Tommy's


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Oct 24, 2013)

They could release a book with various riffs, and make money off of that. But copyright law doesn't allow them to just license each riff off one at a time UNLESS it's a recorded sound.

A riff in a piece of music is an idea. Not a full work.

And "riff" for us is more like a counter melody.


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## guydoingmusic (Oct 24, 2013)

http://youtu.be/4-PegaXlZFo enough said!


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## RiffWraith (Oct 24, 2013)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Fri Oct 25 said:


> They could release a book with various riffs, and make money off of that. But copyright law doesn't allow them to just license each riff off one at a time UNLESS it's a recorded sound.



I assume you are talking USA? I dont see where the copyright law says that. Source?


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Oct 25, 2013)

Yes, copyright law in the US requires things to be a full work. Not a piece of a full work.

Of course, there are exceptions, as their have been ridiculous lawsuits in the past that have been won.

If I'm wrong on this I'm perfectly fine with that, but everything I've read about copyright law in my career basically states it has to be a FULL work.


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## JohnG (Oct 25, 2013)

I don't think I understand what you mean Nathan, by a "full work" only.


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## germancomponist (Oct 25, 2013)

JohnG @ Fri Oct 25 said:


> I don't think I understand what you mean Nathan, by a "full work" only.



Hi John, long time no see.... . o-[][]-o 

I think he means a complete piece of music, and not snippets of a piece/song... .


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Oct 25, 2013)

Correct. Snippets of a song like in Metallica's case a riff.

For instance, Enter the Sandman has a motif that continues and is pretty much the basis of the song. That can be considered a riff. A part of a solo can be considered a riff.

Please understand I'm talking about the idea, not the recording. If they record any of these, yes they can license and sell them. Obviously we all know that since this is a virtual instrument forum, and samples no matter how small are copyrightable.

But the writing, the idea, from what I understand is not something you can copyright. I mean in film music along there are a bunch of borrowed pieces of a track, such as the Zimmer style spicatto's or a two note theme, or a chord progression. Not the records, but the writing itself.

Of course if someone were to PERFECTLY mock-up a piece to sound just like the original recording, that can be something that's a grey area.


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## germancomponist (Oct 25, 2013)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Sat Oct 26 said:


> Of course if someone were to PERFECTLY mock-up a piece to sound just like the original recording, that can be something that's a grey area.



Beside the one million copies of Hans' scores, I remember a well known piece from Nick and Thomas. It also was copied so very often.... .


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## RiffWraith (Oct 25, 2013)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Sat Oct 26 said:


> Please understand I'm talking about the idea, not the recording.



You are heading down the right path there - you can not copyright an idea; you can only copyright the implementation of that idea. If I am correct, what you are trying to say is that a riff is not a full peice of music, but an idea - and as such it is not subject to copyright, and therefore cant be sold. That's not exactly true. I can write a bunch of guitar riffs and sell them regardless of whether or not they have been recorded (which is what you were alluding to earlier). The thing is - they need to be unique compositions - or_ unique riffs_. So. if I were to try and copyright and/or sell a riff that is nothing more than straight 16th notes chugging of a repeating E-C-D-E-C-D... cant do it. I do not own that chord progression, nor that strumming/rhythmic pattern. However, if I wrote the riff to 'Enter Sandman' (let's just go under the assumption for a moment that it doesn't already exist), THAT is something I can copyright and/or sell. Because it is unique. It doesn't need to be recorded, and the fact that it is not an "entire work" doesn't stop me from copyrighting/selling it.

Cheers.


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