# Which MIDI controller keyboard would be suitable for my needs/budget?



## Frequensalad (Aug 9, 2022)

Been on the search for a new 49 key MIDI keyboard for a while now. I've been through all kinds of review videos over the past few weeks but i'm kinda stuck, thought i'd take it to the forum to get some real world experience.

Budget is about $350. I'll be using it for creating music _as well as_ mixing and mastering. So an all-rounder. I'm a multi-instrumentalist and piano _isn't_ my main instrument. I'm a guitarist, drummer, and audio engineer. I use lots of virtual synths, but no orchestral stuff really.

What i'm looking for:
-Nice keybed (doesn't have to feel exactly like a real piano necessarily, but also nothing too stiff, nothing with too strong a spring-back (i.e. not too much resistence). Velocity curves must be even, and not require a TON of force to get a 127 note, but also have good dynamic range for subtle playing)
-Endless rotary knobs for plugin control
-Transport control / Useful DAW integrations

Don't care about:
-Drum pads (happy to use the keys)
-Bonus software and sound libraries

Bonus points if it has it, but not essential:
-Faders are nice but not sure they're essential. I'm open to being sold on them if they improve mixing workflow though.
-Aftertouch. Cool if it's there, maybe i'd use it in the future, but currently i don't really


Boards that i'm aware of so far:

*Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol A49* (It has the endless rotaries, doesn't waste expenses on drum pads, and looks like it has good transport control. NKS is probably handy. Apparently the Native Instruments sound browser has some key limitations. My main reservation is the keybed, i've heard people say they are stiff?)
*Novation Launchkey 49 mk3* (apparently the keys are smooth and light with good velocity curve, but they feel a little hollow and toy-ish? Lots of functionality for Ableton in particular, but i don't use Ableton so maybe that's wasted on me. Also it doesn't have a FF or RW on the transport control)
*Nektar Panorama T4 or P4* (apparently has the best plugin control and DAW integration, but the velocity curves on the keys are bad, black keys require more force than the white keys, etc)
*M-Audio Oxygen Pro 49* (packed with features + drum pads, but apparently the pitch wheel has a 0.5 second delay, making it unusable for live performance/tracking. Also not sure if the keys are any good? They sound clicky-clacky. Also the rotaties aren't endless)
*Alesis VI49* (not to be confused with the V49. Apparently the keys feel amazing, but the velocity curves are all whacked out)

What other MIDI keyboards exist in this range? Maybe i'm missing something?

Ideally i'd like to get a Komplete Kontrol *S*49 and be done with it, but unfortunately they're way out of my price range.

An alternative idea i was considering was getting both a MIDI control surface (like the Korg nanoKONTROL2) *and *get a MIDI keyboard that's JUST the keys (like the M-Audio Keystation or something like that) and then using the NanoKontrol2 for plugin/DAW control, and the keys are just the keys. But i'm not sure what that workflow would be like? And not sold on the Keystation quality either.

Has anyone here used the boards that i've listed? Any quirks i should know about? Anything positive about the workflow?

Any other boards i should check out?

Cheers


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## cedricm (Aug 9, 2022)

Wair for more answers, but in my opinion there aren't any 49-keys keyboards with nice keybeds. You'll almost certainly get a springy noisy one.
So I would go for the cheapest one or the one best fitting your needs.
Also don't forget compactness if desktop space is at a premium.


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## Fidelity (Aug 9, 2022)

Used S49iis fall in your price range. https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/N...-Kontrol-S49-MK2-MIDI-Controller-118098312.gc is right there before shipping and tax, and you can probably get a better deal on eBay (where I bought mine) or Craigslist.

I'd recommend the S49ii over the mk1/a series for the physical modwheel/pitchbend (you still have a ribbon for expression or w/e you map it to). The large screens are kinda neat too when you want to use it like an all in one workstation.


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## Frequensalad (Aug 10, 2022)

Fidelity said:


> Used S49iis fall in your price range. https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/N...-Kontrol-S49-MK2-MIDI-Controller-118098312.gc is right there before shipping and tax, and you can probably get a better deal on eBay (where I bought mine) or Craigslist.
> 
> I'd recommend the S49ii over the mk1/a series for the physical modwheel/pitchbend (you still have a ribbon for expression or w/e you map it to). The large screens are kinda neat too when you want to use it like an all in one workstation.


I'm definitely actively on the lookout for used S49 mk2's. Unfortunately i'm not in America so that particular ad isn't for me. I'm in Australia. Cheapest used S49 mk2 i've found so far is $690 AUD ($490 USD)

Also found a used S88 mk2 for $800 AUD ($570 USD) which is tempting deal, but i know it'd take up too much space. (and i can't afford it anyway lol)


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## Nico5 (Aug 10, 2022)

I'm also running an NI Komplete Kontrol S series - second generation as my current favourite. 

There's also an Arturia entry level series, but to me, they don't feel as solid as the NI controllers.

Another - samewhat different - approach might be to go for a relatively old used synth with a nice keybed - and a separate used surface for endless controllers. On Windows even very old midi controllers are still entirely usable (I'm running current Win10). 

I've recently tested out of date controllers like the NI Kore hardware controller and the Novation Nocturn. Both have 8 endless encoders and I've bought them very inexpensive on the used market (around CAD 50 and CAD 20).

One of my all-time favourite synth-touch keybeds of the various synths I've owned over the years is on my very old Korg Karma (the red one). But keybeds are very subjective, so I'm not dishing this out as general advice. 

But the used gear strategy depends a lot on the local market and that can differ wildly.

p.s. I've made a self-made keyboard drawer under my desk (Ikea-hack) for the keyboard and keep my other controller(s) on top of the desk.


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## Frequensalad (Aug 11, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> There's also an Arturia entry level series, but to me, they don't feel as solid as the NI controllers.


Does that go for the A series as well? Better than the Arturia entry level series?


Nico5 said:


> Another - samewhat different - approach might be to go for a relatively old used synth with a nice keybed - and a separate used surface for endless controllers. On Windows even very old midi controllers are still entirely usable (I'm running current Win10).


Yeah i think that will be the play in the end. I just can't find a master keyboard i like that has both a good keybed and endless knobs. Might just have to get 2 devices that specialize in those.

Does anybody have suggestions for a 49 or 61 key keyboard that has JUST a good keybed and nothing else? (from any era)


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## stigbn (Aug 11, 2022)

Frequensalad wrote:​"apparently the pitch wheel has a 0.5 second delay"

Hasn't the pitch wheel delay on M-audio oxygen Pro been fixed? I've seen some youtube videos that says so, can anybody confirm, as I'm on the look for this keyboard


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## Frequensalad (Aug 11, 2022)

stigbn said:


> Frequensalad wrote:​"apparently the pitch wheel has a 0.5 second delay"
> 
> Hasn't the pitch wheel delay on M-audio oxygen Pro been fixed? I've seen some youtube videos that says so, can anybody confirm, as I'm on the look for this keyboard


That's good then.
Still though, the knobs aren't endless. Deal breaker for me.

At this point i'm now thinking i should just save up for a Arturia Keylabs 49 Mk2 based on some stuff i've read over the past few hours. Sounds like it does everything i want, looks like it FEELS good to interact with (from keybed to build quality to even the way it looks). Hopefully i can find a black one on the used market. Otherwise i might just suck it up and buy it new


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## Nico5 (Aug 11, 2022)

Frequensalad said:


> Does that go for the A series as well? Better than the Arturia entry level series?


yeah - in my (obviously subjective) opinion the NI A series feels a little more solid all around than then entry level Arturias. 



Frequensalad said:


> At this point i'm now thinking i should just save up for a Arturia Keylabs 49 Mk2 based on some stuff i've read over the past few hours


I think those are pretty nice - and fair for the price point. Another one you may want to compare in that price range and generally similar functionality is the Akai MPK 249.


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## proxima (Aug 11, 2022)

I have an MPK 249. The keybed is very "synth" (light and springy), and I wish the sliders and knobs were on the left (being right handed). The mod wheel feels great, but can collect dust and start giving funny data. It's hard to recommend it, but I do find it really customizable without any added software. But it replaced an MAudio 25 key piece of junk. I wil never buy MAudio gear again, though others have better luck. 

At your price, I would be shopping for a used one that you can try out in person. Hopefully that would take care of defects that crop up.


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## Awoo Composer (Aug 11, 2022)

I have a Launchkey MK3 37 and the keys are pretty synthy. I won't say it's a bad keybed but they are a far cry from weighted piano keys. Otherwise it works in other DAWs with scripts. I know Cubase recognized it instantly. I'm pretty shit at the mod wheel but it feels OK.


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## Frequensalad (Aug 12, 2022)

proxima said:


> I have an MPK 249. The keybed is very "synth" (light and springy), and I wish the sliders and knobs were on the left (being right handed). The mod wheel feels great, but can collect dust and start giving funny data. It's hard to recommend it, but I do find it really customizable without any added software. But it replaced an MAudio 25 key piece of junk. I wil never buy MAudio gear again, though others have better luck.
> 
> At your price, I would be shopping for a used one that you can try out in person. Hopefully that would take care of defects that crop up.


I have an old Akai MPK61 currently and don't love it. I'm sure the MPK249 is better, but i think i'd find it hard to get excited about another Akai board. Something about the way they look seems clunky. Also hate how springy the keys are on the MPK61, too much resistance/stiffness for my hands

Also have the same problem you've had with the modwheel but with my 4th fader. It gives random data, and will just automatically turn down the 4th track of my project. I'm assuming because of dust in the internals



Awoo Composer said:


> I have a Launchkey MK3 37 and the keys are pretty synthy. I won't say it's a bad keybed but they are a far cry from weighted piano keys. Otherwise it works in other DAWs with scripts. I know Cubase recognized it instantly. I'm pretty shit at the mod wheel but it feels OK.


I've definitely got my eye on the Launchkey. I like the way it looks, i like the amount of DAW/plugin control it might have. The only thing is i don't use Albeton so a lot of its value isn't optimized on me. I also doubt i'd really use the sequencing/arp features.

Also got some reservations that it might be a little plasticky and toy-like.

But it does seem like a board that doesn't really have any weaknesses, and might win out based on that alone


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## LA68 (Aug 14, 2022)

How about a Novation Impulse?


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## AudioLoco (Aug 14, 2022)

I you are NOT a pianist like me the Nektar Impact is very cheap and very functional, and also very space effective....

I realized after some experimentation, that I don't mind using the mouse for most things, and I do have a separate fader controller if I really need to have tactile control, so all those faders and encoders on keyboards usually stay pretty unused also as most functions are already there on my 5$ QWERTY keyboard....


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## Frequensalad (Aug 15, 2022)

Ok so i just went to the local shop and played on some of the keyboards.

The decision has been narrowed down to 2: 
*-Arturia KeyLab 49 mk2* 
and the 
*-Native Instruments* *Komplete Kontrol S49* *mk2 *(found a good used price, $50 less than the Keylab new, only 2 months old)

And i'm truly split down the middle! I don't know which one i preferred, i'm stuck! And i'm terrified of buying one and later realizing the integration/workflow doesn't suit me or something like that. I was there for over 2 hours trying to come to a decision but couldn't do it and came home to research more.

The keybeds on both are good, but they are very different. The Keylab is more of a synth action, more shallow and more light, maybe a bit flimsier, but very smooth and "easy". I expected the Keylab keys to be a bit more "premium" based on some things i read about them on the net. They are definitely nice, but they are not "wow". The S49 keybed is bit more chunky, and bit more heft, deeper movement. Not overly hefty, just moreso in comparison to the Keylab. They're not heavy, they're smooth, but they have more heft. The S49 wasn't "wow" either necessarily but it was probably a touch more premium feeling. Feels more heavy duty, as if you could hammer them a little harder without worry. I preferred the dynamics you can get with the Keylab, but with the S49 you can get your body into it a bit more, which aids expression i'd imagine. Keylab keys are more of a smooth/soft feel, and the S49 feels like more of a discernable "button".

The shop had a "demo" keyboard of both models that have been there in the shop since 2018 and 2019, and the S49 was in much better condition years later. The Keylab had some keys that weren't working, some of the keys were squeeky, there was some cosmetic wear. The S49 seemed like new.
Granted, the S49 was in a dedicated demo room, and the Keylab was out on the rack in the shop, so probably explains why it had more wear.

So i asked to check out a new Keylab 49mk2 and they kindly unboxed one for me to try. It was definitely nicer than the demo one, obviously. It reassured me that it will be nice to play, but now i have questions about the durability.

Other misc notes:
-Preferred the feel of the knobs on the S49. A bit more "slick".
-Keylab has pads which is handy.
-Keylab has faders which COULD be handy but currently i'm unsure how that would fit into my workflow.
-The buttons on the Keylab were louder and more "clicky" than the S49, which made me prefer the S49 buttons.
-Keylab has the metal chasis which is super cool, but i don't know if it necessarily translates to better build quality.
-Preferred the feel of the big rubber mod wheels on the S49. I felt more connected to it than the smaller metal knobs on the Arturia. Doesn't move the needle one way or another though. Both have a premium feel, both very smooth.

^ All that above doesn't sway me one way or another. My biggest questions that will dictate the decision is the workflow and integration.

The dual screens of the S49 is obviously a big draw card. Getting that feedback on the knobs you're turning is big. But does it really mean anything if i can just see it on the computer screen? Does it give you feedback for things outside of the KK/NKS standard?

I'm a Cubase user, and at the moment i'm not necessarily tied to either ecosystem as far as instruments. I use Arturia synths as well as Kontakt libraries. I'm more concerned about DAW control and being able to control 3rd party FX plugins using the knobs on my board.
I'd also like to reduce the amount of mousing around i do on the computer. Seems like they both assist with that, but what i REALLY want to know is whether either of them have a limitation or bottleneck in the way their mapping and integration is. And it's sorta something i wont know until i dive deep with it.

So if you're a user of one of these boards and you've gone deep into consistently using your board in a tactile way that involes less mousing around, then please fill me in on your workflow! What do you like about the board in particular? And what do you wish was different?


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## Frequensalad (Aug 15, 2022)

P.s. a quick overview of the other keybeds i touched at the shop:

(note that i didn't have them plugged in, i just played them without sound)

1. Nektar Panorama T4
Crap. Keys feel cheap. All clacky and clunky. Plasticky, toy-like

2. Akai MPK249
It really depends on your preference, but they're not for me. They feel like decent quality, but they're more stiff/springy than i personally prefer. Too much resistance. They'd be good to drum on, but there's already pads for that. They don't feel great/intuitive for soft dynamic playing. If you're getting the 249 you're probably not doing it to play piano on, moreso basslines and synth leads and stuff. Knobs felt nice.

3. Novation SL
Felt pretty good quality. For the price the SL is i'd expect a bit better though. They're in a similar ballpark to the S49 in the sense that you can really feel when you push them down. They've got some heft without having too much resistance. S49 a bit better though. 

4. M-Audio Oxygen Pro
Wasn't that impressed. Can't quite remember the feel exactly but i remember thinking they don't excite me. They were about middle of the road.

5. Novation Launchkey mk3
They felt pretty good. They're light and plasticky but they don't feel clacky and cheap, they're pretty smooth. Prob somewhere on par with the Keylab essential, which are both a liiittle on the spongey side, but that might suit you if you're not a piano player.

6. Arturia Keylab Essential
They were better than i expected. Not premium, but very smooth and "easy" to play. Don't think you'd get good dynamic playing with this, but the keys at least "feel" okay.

7. Komplete Kontrol A49
Probably the best feel for the price. They're obviously not true premium, but they do a good job of mimicking it. These felt somewhere between the Keylab Essential and the Novation SL. They're probably on par with the Launchkey as far as quality "feeling", but with a bit more "weight" to them than the Launchkey. If i didn't have enough money for the Keylab mk2 or the KK S49 then i'd probably get the A49

I tried a few mini keyboards too, they all felt surprisingly decent considering they were just understated mini boards. Don't remember which ones were what though.


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## AlphaCen (Aug 15, 2022)

Frequensalad said:


> P.s. a quick overview of the other keybeds i touched at the shop:
> 
> (note that i didn't have them plugged in, i just played them without sound)
> 
> ...


A word of caution in regards to NI A series: there is no way to adjust velocity on those. I’ve had one and the keys were indeed nice but the velocity response was very soft. NI on their forum dismissed this “because it’s budget keyboard”. Both A series and NI S49/61 Mk2 series is basically useless without KK software. I mean there are Midi templates, but those big screens on S series are just showing CC values, that’s all. One can adjust velocity on those, though …


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## macmac (Aug 19, 2022)

Frequensalad said:


> Ok so i just went to the local shop and played on some of the keyboards.
> 
> The decision has been narrowed down to 2:
> *-Arturia KeyLab 49 mk2*
> ...


I just tried out some keyboards yesterday and the two you mentioned here were my contenders. I had the same opinion about them as you do. I thought by trying them my decision would be easy, but I too felt I had to further think and evaluate my needs.

I didn’t like the Arturia Essentials but the more expensive Keylab was better.


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## Frequensalad (Aug 19, 2022)

I went with the used S49 mk2 in the end. I'm not yet certain it was the right decision but i guess i'll find out


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## EanS (Aug 19, 2022)

What's your DAW? I have the Komplete A49 and use Studio One, and couldn't be happier (went from a cheap tier Nektar one). All transport controls including undo and the metronome are at hand, the rest is up to you with the knobs to assign, by default in a DAW it assign to tracks vol faders. Only one Expression controller output only. 

For faders, I got just 3 (most common, Dynamics, Expression +1 which could be Vibrato and etc...) because usually you write again over a CC automation lane and use just one fader. The Sparrow one https://themidimaker.com/ , I know it's more expensive than the nanokontrol2 but korg ones is a 30mm fader, Sparrow is 100mm. Mid agreement is to be at least 60mm or it's way too short. 

So two treats, quick integration with Studio One (and I bet many others, just look for the files) and all integration using Komplete, meaning all knobs from a common NI or NKS library or are auto assigned to the parameters, while in Kontakt you need to assign one by one. 

Keybed is nice, not like the S series obviously, small screen is absurd but it's there and provides plain tiny info.


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## dyross (Aug 24, 2022)

@Frequensalad how are you liking the S49 so far?

I'm in a similar boat as you, looking for something relatively compact (if not transportable), but more on the premium side. Is the Komplete Kontrol integration proving useful for you?

It seems from reading over this thread is that there are no real, semi-weighted keybeds in the 49/61 size range - is that right?


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## Frequensalad (Aug 24, 2022)

dyross said:


> @Frequensalad how are you liking the S49 so far?
> 
> I'm in a similar boat as you, looking for something relatively compact (if not transportable), but more on the premium side. Is the Komplete Kontrol integration proving useful for you?
> 
> It seems from reading over this thread is that there are no real, semi-weighted keybeds in the 49/61 size range - is that right?


Well semi-weighted is a pretty broad term. All the semi weighted keyboards I've tried over the years either feel like a synth or a stiff/unrealistic piano. It's super varied and certainly doesn't mean much if a keyboard is deemed semi weighted or not in my view. It's not some sign of quality or feel.

I haven't had a chance to really dive in and configure the S49 yet. But so far I'm liking it okay.

First thing that stood out is that the keybed isn't as nice as the one I played in the shop. I don't remember if the one is the shop was a S49 or S61, but the keybed felt a little looser or smoother there. Mine feels a little stiffer, which reminds me too much of my old Akai MPK61. Maybe it needs to wear in a bit? Nonetheless the keybed feels nice enough and I'm satisfied. But I'm not wowed. It's not pure love.

I'm also noticing I have to hit the keys quite hard to get a full velocity note, which isn't preferable for me. I preferred the dynamics on the Keylab out of the box, where you only need moderate strength to get a full velocity. But I know you can apparently edit the velocity curves within the NI software so I'm not worried about that yet.

I had an hour long play with it one night and I did love using the transport control and twiddling the knobs for the NKS instruments. Using the browser within KK felt seamless. The arpeggiator is cool.
One thing I wish is that there was a forward and backward button among the transport controls rather than having to bring my right hand off the mouse to move the jog wheel for moving around. But it's not a big deal.
Also wish the jog wheel felt a little smoother like the mod wheels and encoders are (it's a little "grindy") but again not a big deal.

Really love being in mixer mode and being able to adjust track levels with the encoders, that part is a bit of a thrill. I will definitely be using this a lot. I just wish the tracks names showed up on the screens. I swear I saw that it was possible to get that visual feedback in the vids I saw, but don't remember exactly. Maybe I need to configure it some more.

I'm still yet to dive in and figure out how to custom map the Focus Quick Controls within Cubase and be able to twiddle the knobs on all my 3rd party compressors from the board etc (i.e. outside of KK software). If I can get that going then I'll be in love. If I can't configure it like that outside of the KK plugin then I'll probably wish I bought the Keylab mk2 instead.

One thing I noticed is it's a little chunkier than I expected. For only 49 keys it's quite a unit visually. I think it's because of the height. The Keylab is a little less tall from memory, therefore a bit less "HERE I AM ON YOUR DESK".

One thing I'm struggling with is figuring out how to *remove* libraries from the Komplete Kontrol browser window. I have some Waves instruments that I got in a bundle that I have 0 interest in ever using, so I don't want them taking up space in my browser, but I can't get them gone. I unchecked them in the plugin settings and rescanned but they still won't leave. And google hasn't got the answers yet so I'm gonna have to spend a bit of time figuring that out too.

Another thing I gotta figure out is sourcing all 3rd party instruments' NKS stuff so I can use them in KK (like Omnisphere etc). So that's another thing that's gonna involve some research.

Overall I like it. Would I ever pay full price for it new? Hell no, the incremental workflow improvement isn't worth the price (I got mine used for almost half price). But it's still a nifty unit. I just ordered a 2TB NVMe drive for all the Kontakt libraries I intend to get, so NI has done well to rope me in there. Can't wait to build my library and develop a workflow where I can make music quickly without thinking too hard. I just gotta make sure I follow through on my groundwork and finish configuring everything so it's all set up how I like it before my interest wanes and it gathers dust


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## dyross (Aug 25, 2022)

Frequensalad said:


> Well semi-weighted is a pretty broad term. All the semi weighted keyboards I've tried over the years either feel like a synth or a stiff/unrealistic piano. It's super varied and certainly doesn't mean much if a keyboard is deemed semi weighted or not in my view. It's not some sign of quality or feel.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to really dive in and configure the S49 yet. But so far I'm liking it okay.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the response. Glad you're enjoying it.

The one delta I have from you in my search is that faders would be nice (for controlling sample libraries), and I'd rather not have a secondary controller for that, if possible.

Of the ones you mentioned, the Oxygen Pro seems to be the only one that has the faders on the left, which is convenient. Any recollection of what you didn't like about it?

EDIT: Looks like Oxygen Pro doesn't have expression pedal input. Yikes.


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## dyross (Aug 25, 2022)

A different question about the S49 - do you think there's enough space on the top left (empty space) to put something like this there?









Sparrow 4x100mm MIDI controller


This versatile and compact MIDI controller comes with 4, 100mm travel fader and is the perfect studio addition for audio creators, sound producers, music composers, and more! MIDI compliant and compatible with many major DAWs (Logic Pro X, Kontakt, Ableton, Cakewalk, and more. For a more...




themidimaker.com


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## Frequensalad (Aug 25, 2022)

dyross said:


> Thanks for the response. Glad you're enjoying it.
> 
> The one delta I have from you in my search is that faders would be nice (for controlling sample libraries), and I'd rather not have a secondary controller for that, if possible.
> 
> ...


Didn't like the keybed of the Oxygen Pro, felt cheap and plasticky. I wanted something more premium feeling.
Also the encoders aren't endless (which means when you turn them the parameter value will jump to the point that the encoder is set on)
Also read some other stuff about it that turned me off but I can't remember now.
The DAW integration is apparently awesome though so I considered it purely for that


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## Frequensalad (Aug 25, 2022)

dyross said:


> A different question about the S49 - do you think there's enough space on the top left (empty space) to put something like this there?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Width wise I'd say say. Depth wise I'll have to measure when I get home, but I'd _guess_ yes


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## Frequensalad (Aug 26, 2022)

dyross said:


> A different question about the S49 - do you think there's enough space on the top left (empty space) to put something like this there?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok just measured, yeah i think you'd be able to fit it.
On the S49 you've got about 170mm of width space between the left edge and the buttons (the Sparrow is 93mm wide so easy fit there). 
Depth wise you've got about 155mm of space between the top edge and the rivet where the buttons section begins, and about 163mm of space between the top edge and where the buttons start (the buttons above the mod wheels). Given the Sparrow is a hair under 157mm i'd say you'd be able to fit it on the basis that it probably doesn't matter if the Sparrow hangs over the top edge by 2mm. But it would cover the "Komplete" logo.
Hope that helps


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