# What work do you do as a composer to earn a living?



## musicformedia (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi guys,

I'm looking to make the move into part time composition this year (from just composing in my spare time) and am wondering out of curiosity how the rest of you earn a living from music?

I've only written music for online libraries and made a nice income on the side from it - also taught a bit of music when I was in college and have written some music for iphone apps etc. Just curious what makes up the majority of peoples income here and if people actually earn a living solely off writing for film/tv/media?

Cheers


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## nikolas (Feb 2, 2011)

Teach, compose concert hall music (missing from the poll as an option), compose music for media (computer games actually and also missing from the poll), performin (missing as well).

I'd say I earn around 50% of my living off composing for games.


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## musicformedia (Feb 2, 2011)

Dang, how do I edit the poll? Thanks for your info


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## nikolas (Feb 2, 2011)

musicformedia @ Wed Feb 02 said:


> Dang, how do I edit the poll? Thanks for your info


I think that you, or someone else, did edit the poll. But it's still a poll with 1 option, and I have more than 1 to choose from! 

Still I hope my previous post was useful!


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## midphase (Feb 2, 2011)

Ugh....you need to add "Some of the Above" as an option.


Also, with all due respect to Nikolas...the Compose Concert Hall music option will more than likely only get his vote.


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## madbulk (Feb 2, 2011)

Does composing for media encompass all not-already-listed-specifically media, such as games?

I'm thinking what Guy does is compose concert hall music, for the most part.


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## robteehan (Feb 2, 2011)

midphase @ Wed Feb 02 said:


> Also, with all due respect to Nikolas...the Compose Concert Hall music option will more than likely only get his vote.



not true!


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## Jimbo 88 (Feb 2, 2011)

Just my thoughts here, but you can't do it part time. Maybe for a while in the begining, but you have to kinda be all out for this line of work. Too much competition...You can't be in the middle of a project then tell your client, "ohh, I got to do my other job now".


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## musicformedia (Feb 2, 2011)

Yea I can understand being unable to compose for specific projects part time, but I've made a great income from composing for library music (exclusive and non exclusive libraries) by just writing music in my spare time. With about 50 tracks I've made enough to live off with a part time job so far, hence the reason I'm moving part time 

But yea, I get what you're saying - pitching, composing etc. is a full time job if you have specific projects


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## JJP (Feb 2, 2011)

You could also add:

- Orchestration/Arranging
- Music Preparation/Copying/Transcribing

I make most of my money in those areas.


...Hopefully this is good news that there are a lot of options out there. :idea:


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## musicformedia (Feb 2, 2011)

Thanks guys, just asked a mod to update it so that the poll has


- Orchestration/Arranging
- Music Preparation/Copying/Transcribing 
- Compose for games
- Performing
-Some of the above

and to remove "composing for media" as its too vague.

Thanks for taking the time to complete the survey everyone so far. Interesting to hear from people how they earn an income. Also suprised more people don't compose music for music libraries...


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## robteehan (Feb 2, 2011)

This poll will not be accurate because you can only choose one option.

Those of us who are in early-career stages will inevitably have multiple income streams.


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## musicformedia (Feb 3, 2011)

Anyone have any idea how I edit the poll to allow multiple options and change the options in it? Emailed a mod, but he doesnt know how


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 5, 2011)

The majority of my income is currently roughly split between sample library development and writing music for games. Maybe 40/40 or so. Another 10% is album sales, and the last 10% is miscellaneous like music licensing, lessons, mixing/mastering work etc. I'm pretty happy with this arrangement!


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## nikolas (Feb 5, 2011)

[quote:713de9bad0="madbulk @ Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:24 pm"]I'm thinking what Guy does is compose concert hall music, for ò k   Àï• k   Àð' k   ÀðÒ k   ÀñW k   Àô~ k   Àõ\ k   À÷ k   À÷¥ k   Àùþ k   Àú7 k   Á è k   Áþ k   ÁF k   Áp k   ÁB k   Á| k   Á& k   Á½ k   Á Ë k   Á ì k   Ág k   Áˆ k   ÁŠ k   Áã k   ÁR k   Á¯ k   Áº k   Áœ k   ÁD k   Áf k   Á§ k   Á— k   ÁÈ k   Áã k   Áý k   Áñ k   Á*è k   Á+« k   Á.ú k   Á/$ k   Á/] k   Á/Þ k   Á1/ k   Á1l k   Á3] k   Á3Ì k   Á4Ï k   Á4ê k


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## robteehan (Feb 10, 2011)

nikolas @ Sat Feb 05 said:


> madbulk @ Wed Feb 02 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm thinking what Guy does is compose concert hall music, for the most part.
> ...



You're not Nikolas - my background is in classical music and I still write about five or six concert works on commission per year.


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## poseur (Feb 11, 2011)

fwiw:
i compose for films, and --- sometimes --- for television.
i make recordings, for general release & for sale.
i perform, live..... and still tour, occasionally;
sometimes, i do (select) session-work, as a musician.
sometimes, i compose for commercials.
i consult to a number of very different musical instrument makers & manufacturers.
sometimes, i produce recordings, and/or act as a creative "consultant".
sometimes, i mix recordings.
sometimes, i write (or co-write) "pop" music.
occasionally, i teach, which has most often taken place in a uni- setting, or in "clinics".

iow?
whatever the f••• it takes (within my "brand of reasonability"),
both to keep my love alive & food-on-the-table.

dt


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## JJP (Feb 11, 2011)

One thing popped in my head as I looked at this poll. How are we defining composing music for film or television? 

I've come across more than one composer who calls himself a film or TV composer and lists several credits. I've later found that all the credits were the result of placement of pre-composed tracks through a library or supervisor.

In my opinion writing for a library is quite different from actually composing to picture, but I realize that some people do not make that distinction.


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## poseur (Feb 11, 2011)

JJP @ Fri Feb 11 said:


> In my opinion writing for a library is quite different from actually composing to picture, but I realize that some people do not make that distinction.



hmmm.....
in that case, fwiw:
when i say that i'm composing for tv, film & commercials,
i mean that i'm composing new original material specifically 
for the shows on which i'm working;
my express purpose is creating original score.

of course, i do some licensing of material, as well, by invitation.....
but, that licensing-thing is far from my primary "job description",
just a nice bonus-circumstance.

but, errrrmmmm.....

i wonder what purpose was intended by the OP,
à propos this-here-"poll"?


dt


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## midphase (Feb 11, 2011)

JJP @ Fri Feb 11 said:


> I've come across more than one composer who calls himself a film or TV composer and lists several credits. I've later found that all the credits were the result of placement of pre-composed tracks through a library or supervisor.
> 
> In my opinion writing for a library is quite different from actually composing to picture, but I realize that some people do not make that distinction.



That is quite common. It connects to several other discussions that have been going on around here recently about how people are attracted by name recognition more than actual compositional work. So if someone was the coffee boy for Zimmer on Inception, you can rest assured that the first thing that pops out of his mouth when he's pitching himself for a gig is that he worked on Inception.

The other aspect of this is that several TV shows now rely exclusively on library tracks. So nobody is actually being credited as composer...but rather it's a collection of tracks from a bunch of different people.

If we're talking strictly from a skillset point of view, then I know plenty of guys who can compose amazing pieces and who totally suck at scoring to picture.


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 11, 2011)

I don't know anybody who earns his living from concert music performances only, especially when your average audience for contemporary music will be of 12 people, and that's a good audience.


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## Andrew Aversa (Feb 12, 2011)

JJP @ Fri Feb 11 said:


> One thing popped in my head as I looked at this poll. How are we defining composing music for film or television?
> 
> I've come across more than one composer who calls himself a film or TV composer and lists several credits. I've later found that all the credits were the result of placement of pre-composed tracks through a library or supervisor.
> 
> In my opinion writing for a library is quite different from actually composing to picture, but I realize that some people do not make that distinction.



I list films + TV shows where my music has been placed, but I specify that it was licensed music (I have my whole catalog of music available to license from my site.) Also, I wouldn't call myself a film/TV composer, but I could understand someone calling themselves a TV composer if they do a lot of production music oriented for TV. After all, as someone mentioned, some TV shows are primarily licensed music anyway.


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## Guy Bacos (Feb 13, 2011)

Other areas such as studio recording, film music, video games, teaching, etc. are certainly highly interesting and artistic as well, and I've been through many of them, to more or lesser degrees. But for me, the ultimate achievement in music is concert music with a solid orchestra, good conductor, in a nice hall and better with a good crowd. It's just a personal thing, and I think it's the most prestigious way to make music, but I know I'll get a serious beating for having said that. So my point is, this is extremely rare in our days, unless your style is commercially oriented as a crowd pleaser. Someone like George Gershwin who in his days could fill a hall purely with his music, not as a soundtrack, is the supreme thing a composer can ask for.


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## Jaap (Feb 14, 2011)

Guy Bacos @ Sun Feb 13 said:


> Other areas such as studio recording, film music, video games, teaching, etc. are certainly highly interesting and artistic as well, and I've been through many of them, to more or lesser degrees. But for me, the ultimate achievement in music is concert music with a solid orchestra, good conductor, in a nice hall and better with a good crowd. It's just a personal thing, and I think it's the most prestigious way to make music, but I know I'll get a serious beating for having said that. So my point is, this is extremely rare in our days, unless your style is commercially oriented as a crowd pleaser. Someone like George Gershwin who is his days could fill a hall purely with his music, not as a soundtrack, is the supreme thing a composer can ask for.



I can only fully agree with you.

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## robteehan (Feb 14, 2011)

Guy Bacos @ Sun Feb 13 said:


> Other areas such as studio recording, film music, video games, teaching, etc. are certainly highly interesting and artistic as well, and I've been through many of them, to more or lesser degrees. But for me, the ultimate achievement in music is concert music with a solid orchestra, good conductor, in a nice hall and better with a good crowd. It's just a personal thing, and I think it's the most prestigious way to make music, but I know I'll get a serious beating for having said that. So my point is, this is extremely rare in our days, unless your style is commercially oriented as a crowd pleaser. Someone like George Gershwin who in his days could fill a hall purely with his music, not as a soundtrack, is the supreme thing a composer can ask for.



The grass is always greener on the other side.

I've heard a lot of my concert music performed live, yes it is amazing to hear your work performed live by a great orchestra in a great hall... BUT...

-most orchestras have trouble playing any kind of pop groove or swing unless there's a drummer
-without a click in headphones, any steady pulse you write likely to waver
-incorporating synths and electronics is a technical and acoustic nightmare
-most percussion that we're used to hearing on recordings will inevitably overwhelm and drown out woodwinds and strings in a live setting
-audiences go to orchestral concerts to hear OLD music and don't really pay attention to newer stuff

There's a lot to be said for studio recordings where you have control over many more elements and can make a good mix. I don't think I'll be satisfied artistically until I can do this with my music, which is why I am branching out from my career as a concert music composer.

It seems to me that the pinnacle of my career would be a "Lord of the Rings" situation - given a project with almost unlimited time (several years - although I'm sure it was still a crunch), budget and artistic resources. If that's a film or a video game, so be it.


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## JohnG (Feb 15, 2011)

ozmorphasis @ 13th February 2011 said:


> the guys that are making money from concert music are NOT writing the type of stuff that only appeals to 12 people in the audience. They are deliberately wiring themselves into the concert scene with a finger on the pulse of accessibility...not quite to the degree of film or game music, but nonetheless being mindful of relevance to the greater concert going public. This is a positive trend in my opinion in sharp contrast to the alienating approach that a lot of concert music has taken in the past century.



Hi Oz -- can you suggest some names? I'm sure I'm not alone in seeking new works, particularly by living composers.


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## DKeenum (Feb 15, 2011)

I don't know if he would fit, but how about Robert W. Smith. He does a lot: Faculty at Troy State University, Director of Product Development for the C. L. Barnhouse Company, and also a composer.

And I don't know what is ment by "accessable." To me his music is accessable. 

Of course he a built in music publisher.


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## MichaelL (Feb 16, 2011)

Hi John,

I don't know if this composer is making money from his concert works, or not. 

He certainly is from teaching. http://www.edwardbilous.com

I had a commission to do a choral work last year. The money didn't come close to covering the time spent. However, I retained the copyright and can seek publishing.

Regards,

Michael


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## robteehan (Feb 16, 2011)

Eric Whitacre http://www.ericwhitacre.com
and
John Mackey http://www.ostimusic.com

are two good examples of composers earning their living from concert music.

Whitacre does primarily choral music, Mackey primarily wind ensemble for colleges and high schools. Both rely on a combination of sheet music sales and commission fees. A good chunk of their market is from university music programs.

Jennifer Higdon http://www.jennifeò †   ßô †   ...   ß4 †   ßC_ †   ßC’ †   ßJU †   ßJ †


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