# E&O Insurance for ad work?



## midphase (Jan 5, 2012)

I have some friends who are music composers in Austin, TX and they're started working with an advertising producer who's telling them they need to get E&O insurance for any "composing for commercials" gigs they get. 

Do any of you have any experience with that? Is it a common thing? I just want to make sure they're not getting bad advice.


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## studioj (Jan 5, 2012)

I would guess most established music houses have it, but I've never encountered a situation where a client required proof of it. It is a smart thing to have if you're doing a lot of high profile commercial work and being asked to cop temp music often. But its very expensive usually. If they are just getting into the game and/or doing work through other music houses I would say that its unnecessary. But be smart obviously with what you produce! Lots of big law suits in the history of ad music.


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## windshore (Jan 5, 2012)

It sounds like a smart idea. I work for a music house which hire's a musicologist to study every final to check for liability. I don't know if they have E&O (I assume they do) but if you're going to be doing that kind of work regularly, I imagine you better have it.


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## Mike Greene (Jan 5, 2012)

Ad work scares me the most. I know an agency who paid a million dollars to settle an infringement claim once, and another agency who settled for $160k. I was periferrally involved in both. I won't say whether the cases had merit or not, but I will say that if a temp track is involved, or if there's any kind of soundalike involved, I make the client assume all risk. In the first case, that turned out to be a lifesaver.

I had a client insist I get an E&O policy once. I think it was going to cost me in the neighborhood of a thousand bucks for one song, but my memory is kinda hazy on that. I told the client that if they paid for it, I'd get the insurance. They decided to save their money.

I once looked into a blanket E&O policy for composing. (I doubt my homeowner's E&O policy covers this.) My insurance agent (studio, not house) told me that I would have to have each song submitted to a musicologist to get a professional opinion that they were clean. ("Musicologists" are the expert witnesses called in copyright cases.) I forgot the rate I was quoted, but I remember it was based on how many songs I wanted covered and it was reeeeally expensive. Which makes sense, because commercials get sued a lot, and for a lot of money.

I do wonder if some of the big libraries have E&O policies. I suspect that they instead have reverse indemnity clauses where the CLIENT assumes the responsibility. Seems weird to me, but I've seen a contract from a music library that said exactly that.


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## dinerdog (Jan 5, 2012)

E & O insurance is typically required by a lot of the large agencies. If it is, they simply won't work with you (as a music house OR freelance composer) if you do not have it.

I remember looking into it a few years ago (a friend of mine worked at an agency and wanted all my tracks for a library), but he said I had to have E&O insurance, and I believe when I looked into it back then it was several thousand dollars.

And that's not part of getting your music checked by a musicologist if needed.

Kind of a catch-22, but you really have to find out from the agency your working for if they require it. Not all do, but then I don't know what happens if they are sued for infringement (or intent, etc...) Believe me, it's in the fine print that YOUR responsible if anyone comes after them.

Now with all the audio fingerprinting (Tunesat) it's becoming more litigious.


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## bdr (Jan 5, 2012)

for us non-Yanks, what's E&O?


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## Mike Greene (Jan 5, 2012)

Errors and Omissions. It's kinda like an extra liability policy that you'd have for your house, in case someone sues you because you never got around to getting rid of that case of dynamite in your front yard.


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## David Story (Jan 5, 2012)

Mike Greene @ Thu Jan 05 said:


> ... in case someone sues you because you never got around to getting rid of that case of dynamite in your front yard.


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## cc64 (Jan 6, 2012)

The Ad business can be a nightmare. I don't do a lot of them but for 2 out of the 3 i did in the last year i got calls from the ad agency telling me that the CEO of the client company had received 1 e-mail from a crazed fan of x or y saying that we stole their music... and for the record, there wasn't even a temp involved..!

One of them claimed that we had copied an A&W spot dating from the 70's or 80's(not the one with the tuba melody) so to reassure all the corporate people and take the heat off the ad agency i had to write my melody and the one that i supposedly had copied for comparison...Interesting thing was that my melody was not at all the same as the A&W spot but the A&W spot was practically identical to the old " I'm stuck on Band-aid 'cause Band-Aid's stuck on me" jingle o=? o[]) 

The boss at the ad agency told me that it was getting really crazy with people having way too much time on their hands, spending their life on Youtube etc...Add to that the crazed fans that think they'll get to be friends with their idols if they spot something that remotely sounds like them and tip them to it...

Used to be you could make a lot of money in the Ad business but now, you're lucky to get 2500$ for a jingle with no AFM contract(no repayments after 13 weeks) i find this business is really not worth the hassles (in my personal experience).

Result, i never got called by this ad agency again, no big financial or artistic loss there, but still not fun to think of what 1 person armed with an internet connection can do...

YMMV of course.

cc


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## JohnG (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks guys. I'm working on an ad this morning that's not a trailer, so it's very helpful to know this info.


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## tripit (Jan 6, 2012)

For TV?

I only do TV ads a few times a year at best and once did a national radio ad. I've never been hit with an E&O request. In fact, I don't personally know any composer that has. I did have had my work checked on one occasion by a musicologist because the agency insisted I follow the temp very closely. But, the agency happily paid for that as a safety precaution. 

Personally, I would request them to cough up the insurance. It's really the responsibility of the ad producers as it's their production. The composer is just a hired service, not unlike the DP or director. The fact they are trying to pass on the costs to the composer is BS. 

Also, if you're doing a TV ad, they should have E&O anyway. I don't know any film or TV production that can go to broadcast without it anywhere. The networks won't allow it.

I too, am all to happy to avoid ads. The agencies can be a nightmare for all sorts of reasons - a million version requests derived from a collective of crappy suggestions from anxious people on screaming deadlines. I prefer not to deal with them, and in fact, I think I'm going to pass on them in the future.


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## wst3 (Jan 7, 2012)

Interesting stuff!

I did some music for radio advertising projects way back in the dark ages. It was all local or regional stuff, and there were no temp tracks, which probably explains why I never ran into this. The agencies probably had E&O insurance, but it just never came up. Might also have something to do with the era... people were slightly less litigious in the 1980s, but the trend was starting.

These days there is almost no local ad work, at least not where I live, so I haven't thought about it in ages.


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