# Ryan Leech. How John Williams Uses Repetition in his themes



## ed buller (Apr 23, 2021)

best

ed


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## cet34f (Apr 23, 2021)

I was kind of expecting a Godzilla vs. Kong analysis with your post title.


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## Markrs (Apr 23, 2021)

This is excellent analysis by Ryan, super helpful stuff!


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## Leslie Fuller (Apr 23, 2021)

Subscribed!


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## Gene Pool (Apr 23, 2021)

No offense intended, but I remain confused why people can't do this sort of thing for themselves?


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 23, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> No offense intended, but I remain confused why people can't do this sort of thing for themselves?


I suppose you could say that about any topic? And yet we have all learned from a teacher at some point in our lives about something.


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## Arbee (Apr 23, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> No offense intended, but I remain confused why people can't do this sort of thing for themselves?


Perhaps these kinds of posts might be better off in the "*Members Professional Updates & Self-Promotion*" forum?


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## mikeh-375 (Apr 23, 2021)

Perhaps part of the reasoning behind Gene's initial post is down to the fact that as composers, we absolutely must develop our own unique musical wits and analysis is a big contributor to that. It's surely more beneficial for a persons development and growth to be motivated and find out things for themselves rather than always be told. Having said that if a video spurs folk on then that's cool too but obviously it's not enough, hence the need for self-reliance and an autodidactic frame of mind.


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## ed buller (Apr 24, 2021)

it IS basic to some, Not to others. The new paradigm, in self education for many includes videos like this. Some are badly done and the information is flawed and misleading and then others, Like Ryans, are actually very helpful. There is no denying that the information here is on the first few rungs of the ladder one would need to climb to convincingly write music. And, that this information is available elsewhere, but that hardly negates its effectiveness for those that need it !

Because of the nature of this forum there will always be a wide divide between the very knowledgeable and the novice. There is no entrance exam to join and post, all are welcome. One could argue ( and I do ) THAT, is its purpose. A place for all to come and learn and share and ask. 

With that in mind, perhaps it's the wrong approach to complain, when links or info is provided that falls well short of what interests you ! Rather than leap (as some do) at the opportunity to announce "I know all this...basic stuff !!" perhaps sit this one out, or add encouragement, or better yet add additional information that would help those interested. 

Just a thought

best

ed


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## Markrs (Apr 24, 2021)

Shiirai said:


> I do really dislike the title of this topic though. Makes me want to do nothing of the sort as clickbait must be punished .


The title is click-batey but for once I don't mind as Ryan's videos are excellent. Really well explained and demonstrated. I have already learned so much from them.


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## Arbee (Apr 24, 2021)

Are we not confusing two issues here? First, discovering efficient methods of learning from credible sources. Second, being "sold" on helping someone build an online celebrity presence/career.

So, while I have no problem at all with the thread, I suspect it would have been a quieter ride if posted in the other forum area.

My personal take, the Internet is so full of rubbish self-appointed thought leaders, it's good to be made aware of a quality source. On the other hand, if I went to a masterchef cooking forum and found just a video on how to boil an egg, I might be a little disappointed.


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## Noeticus (Apr 24, 2021)

The real question is what is the music score on the lamp in the background?


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## Stringtree (Apr 24, 2021)

What I got from the video is that repetition is a good thing. It was okay. I found my attention shifting between the meticulously-placed guitars and the MDF furniture. And that lamp. Yeah, what's that score?

Coming from the :15, :30, and the :60, my own music doesn't stretch very far, and that's embarrassing. I love it when members here turn me on to some knowledge, because I can't afford it, and there's some good stuff to be found. There's also stuff under your particular level of advancement.

Soooo... We've all carried the torches to illuminate the casting off of a member from a high place before. It's exciting to watch as some idea or person becomes smaller, smaller, smaller, smaller, and goes _splat_ with a soft thud below. The Drama Zone's floor is a sedimentary accretion of guts.

It's sad when we can't make music together. It's also antithetical to this cool site, place, home.

I'm deeply embarrassed by some things I've written here. I'm just a guy who makes all kinds of mistakes. I have received the full-blast before, but I got up, washed off, and kept coming back.

I think it's worth it. So many of our members have demonstrated a tactful and gracious sense of humor when faced with subjects and ideas that might test their patience. That culture keeps me coming back here. It's what makes this community.


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## Noeticus (Apr 24, 2021)

ed buller said:


> best
> 
> ed



I really liked Ryan's video, and so I have subscribed to Ryan's channel.


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## PaulieDC (Apr 24, 2021)

UPDATE: Kudos to the OP, Title has been edited, reads quite nice, so my reply is pointless now. 

===============================================
I guess what I don't understand is the title. Yep, the video is good for us less-developed, but the title made it sound like we were going to lose this person if we didn't subscribe. And now a bunch of pontification has flooded the thread both helpful and definitely not helpful. Next time can we just title similar posts something like "Excellent video for those learning orchestration" and avoid the fuss? OK, I'll hush up now.


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## Michael Antrum (Apr 25, 2021)

I'm also a very busy professional in my own industry, with limited time to devote to he study and comprehension of musical composition.

The problem is that we exist in a time where the sheer volume of 'tutorials' that are flying around about has become a deluge, with YouTube publishers screaming out for your attention and 'likes' and to click 'subscribe'.

There is some wonderful material out there in Youtube land, but I have found that much of it is buried under piles of horse manure. There is a lack of detail inherent in the video format that often gives it an inherent superficiality. At it's best, however, it is inspiring and educational. Much of it is basic information stretched out like a 12 episode mini-series with a 6 episode script.

What I have found, is that it is so easy to waste large chunks of your time watching generic Youtube videos that confuse passing familiarity with a topic with the actual understanding of it.

So I'm grateful to members of this forum like Gene Pool and Dr Shagwell, as I have learned from them the most important thing is how to focus the time you have for study, and for me that has turned out to be books.

Blackwell's Books have seriously benefitted from some of their advice, and I can find more information in a single page of good book than an hour long youtube video. Maybe i'm just old school, but I find Youtube videos to be a passive experience, whereas book learning is fully interactive.

The result is that what I do know, I mostly understand. I suppose (perhaps to over-simplify) it's the difference between knowing what sounds good, and why it sounds good.

I suppose the thing is these days, is that the English language is so elastic, and words no longer mean what they mean. Speaking directly seems to be something people can't cope with these days. There also seems to be a rather modern trend of taking what someone has written or said, and ascribing a different meaning to it. Some words/phrases are absolute landmines.

However, I'm a Yorkshireman, so I'm probably genetically disposed to liking plain speaking - and spare me the flannel.

So I do hope that members with this level of expertise will continue to help out the rest of us, I have learned so much on this forum, and I don't particularly feel the need to have it sugar-coated for me.


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## chillbot (Apr 25, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> The forum could use some rules to prevent stuff like that. I have nothing against the content and if this thread was titled "How John Williams uses repetition on his themes" it wouldn't lead to all this drama.


This is a pet peeve of mine too. Though I don't feel like there's much we can do about it and I will just come off (as usual) as a grumpy old guy so I generally keep my mouth shut. But since my mouth is open anyway can I be a bit more grumpy.... what's with all the videos?? Drives me nuts. This is a forum and as such I come here while I work to read posts and type posts, not to watch vids. If I wanted to watch vids I'd go to youtube. Virtually every other post is not a post at all just a link to a video, and most of them asking for likes and subs and clicks. When did this happen? Can we go back to being a forum and keep all the vids in the "samplecasts, podcasts, videocasts" section? Or make a section just for vids? These posts are lazy, spammy, and annoying. /grumpbox

Yes, this:


Toecutter said:


> Last time I checked this was "Composition, Orchestration & technique" and not "Social media promotion". It's very misleading


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## Markrs (Apr 25, 2021)

chillbot said:


> This is a pet peeve of mine too. Though I don't feel like there's much we can do about it and I will just come off (as usual) as a grumpy old guy so I generally keep my mouth shut. But since my mouth is open anyway can I be a bit more grumpy.... what's with all the videos?? Drives me nuts. This is a forum and as such I come here while I work to read posts and type posts, not to watch vids. If I wanted to watch vids I'd go to youtube. Virtually every other post is not a post at all just a link to a video, and most of them asking for likes and subs and clicks. When did this happen? Can we go back to being a forum and keep all the vids in the "samplecasts, podcasts, videocasts" section? Or make a section just for vids? These posts are lazy, spammy, and annoying. /grumpbox
> 
> Yes, this:


For me a forum is a about community and discussion. If I find a video that I think would be helpful to others or contribute to a conversation, I would post it, in the relevant area for the content. For me content is content, how it is delivered isn't what matters, it is what is in the content and discussions from it that matter.

Posting stuff in videocast just because it is a video is like creating a sub forum for Twitter if you want to link to a Twitter post or the same for Instagram. Content is content, how it is delivered shouldn't matter.


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## chillbot (Apr 25, 2021)

Markrs said:


> For me a forum is a about community and discussion. If I find a video that I think would be helpful to others or contribute to a conversation, I would post it, in the relevant area for the content.


I agree with this to a degree, it's often a fine line. Some videos are obviously more helpful than others.

What is helpful is when some people (maybe you've done this, I don't remember) post a video but then also start the conversation about the video, adding their own insights or analysis. This works a lot better than just posting the video and nothing else.

Regardless, I don't go to a forum to watch videos and I never will so it's a constant source of annoyance. But I understand other people are not me.


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## ed buller (Apr 25, 2021)

chillbot said:


> This is a pet peeve of mine too. Though I don't feel like there's much we can do about it and I will just come off (as usual) as a grumpy old guy so I generally keep my mouth shut. But since my mouth is open anyway can I be a bit more grumpy.... what's with all the videos?? Drives me nuts. This is a forum and as such I come here while I work to read posts and type posts, not to watch vids.


Pet peeve of mine...anonymous posters. Don't watch the video then ???

best

e


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## Mattia Chiappa (Apr 25, 2021)

Honestly, I’m really struggling to understand what the harm of a forum like this would be? It’s a genuine question. Some people said they find it useful and so what if it was clickbaity? If you’re not interested clicking away literally takes less than half a second.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 25, 2021)

I'm just resigned to accepting that if I watch anything on Youtube, there's going to be a lot of suggested videos of annoying stuff--random man wants to explain John Williams to me or whatever--and often a thumbnail with some gratuitous weird facial expression.

Not to pick on whoever this guy is, I'm sure he's cool and all, it's just a general thing in Youtube. It's helpful on occassion when I'm actively looking for something, but annoying that Youtube thinks I perpetually want men to explain beginners things to me.

As for Williams, I'd rather just go straight to the source by looking at the sheets and listening to the recordings he conducted. I'm not sure that the men-explaining-stuff-to-me on Youtube would have much insight beyond what I can glean myself from those.


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## LamaRose (Apr 25, 2021)

William's "simplicity" is brilliant ... most are too GDamn gifted too unravel it.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Apr 25, 2021)

mopsiflopsi said:


> random YouTube personalities with questionable credentials


Just to make one thing clear (to folks at large), I would bet a lot of money that Ryan has more experience and legit credentials than 99% of the members of this forum - certainly including some of the louder critics here - and has been able to work with some of the most successful composers in the business (he was at Remote Control when I first came across him). He also has been able to provide some knowledge (freely I might add) to more aspiring composers over the years than 99% of this forum as well (he was writing articles about composition and theory like 10 years ago on TutPlus).

That's not to say there _aren't_ random YouTube personalities with questionable credentials getting a lot of undeserved attention though.


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## mopsiflopsi (Apr 25, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Just to make one thing clear (to folks at large), I would bet a lot of money that Ryan has more experience and legit credentials than 99% of the members of this forum


My comment wasn't directed at Ryan, just to be clear. I have found great value in his tutorials even before his YT videos.


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