# String Sample Library Comparison: Spiccato



## calebfaith (Feb 7, 2017)

I've begun a series comparing the string sample libraries I own. This first video takes a quick look at the Spiccato articulation. The libraries I look at are CSS, Spitfire Mural, 8DIO Majestica and EW Hollywood Strings. I haven't used any kind of processing etc. it's all the sound out of the box!

Here's the video:


*EDIT: Here is all the examples from this thread compiled into a SC playlist. I wasn't able to download the clyp.it one though (I think it was Symphobia)
*
*LINK*


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

CSS for sure. But all at once sounded great.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 7, 2017)

calebfaith said:


> I've begun a series comparing the string sample libraries I own. This first video takes a quick look at the Spiccato articulation. The libraries I look at are CSS, Spitfire Mural, 8DIO Majestica and EW Hollywood Strings. I haven't used any kind of processing etc. it's all the sound out of the box!
> 
> Here's the video:




Cool comparison. Everyone single one has its charme. CSS has a lot of nice crips bite to it. A question though: Could you provide the midi? So I could give it a try with others sampler, also to see how the spicc behave in SSS.


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## calebfaith (Feb 7, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Cool comparison. Everyone single one has its charme. CSS has a lot of nice crips bite to it. A question though: Could you provide the midi? So I could give it a try with others sampler, also to see how the spicc behave in SSS.



Yes good idea! Here's a link to the MIDI + a Reaper project file with the MIDI: http://calebfaith.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Sample-Library-Comparison-1.zip


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## R. Soul (Feb 7, 2017)

CSS does sound very nice.

I don't have any new-ish libraries but just in case anyone is interested, here it is using LASS Lite.


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Feb 7, 2017)

Clever way of using Midi Velocity Control, Caleb.


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## WindcryMusic (Feb 7, 2017)

Interesting, to be sure, and CSS did sound especially great here. Even 8DIO sounded better than I might have expected.

My only concern is that I'm not sure this was fair to Mural, since the volume was comparatively low at the start as compared to CSS (I know from personal tests that CSS has less dynamic range than other libraries), and because of the mic selection, which you haven't provided any details about, but it sounds like it could have been just the tree mics on Mural with no close mics. I would expect some close mics to give Mural at least a bit more bite.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 7, 2017)

Aw man, it would have been so cool to throw the Albion One Spiccato./Staccato patch in there. Love that one.


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## N.Caffrey (Feb 7, 2017)

I think in this case using the time-machine patch with Mural would have helped


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## calebfaith (Feb 7, 2017)

WindcryMusic said:


> Interesting, to be sure, and CSS did sound especially great here. Even 8DIO sounded better than I might have expected.
> 
> My only concern is that I'm not sure this was fair to Mural, since the volume was comparatively low at the start as compared to CSS (I know from personal tests that CSS has less dynamic range than other libraries), and because of the mic selection, which you haven't provided any details about, but it sounds like it could have been just the tree mics on Mural with no close mics. I would expect some close mics to give Mural at least a bit more bite.



I actually normalised the volume of each library after I'd finished recording - mural just has a larger dynamic range. Also I used the Stereo Mixed Mics (the middle setting, can't remember which it is) for Mural to make it more fair as CSS was using a mixed mic. The only unfair one would be Hollywood Strings which was only the mid mic because that's all I have.



Parsifal666 said:


> Aw man, it would have been so cool to throw the Albion One Spiccato./Staccato patch in there. Love that one.



Albion is on my very long list of things to buy 



N.Caffrey said:


> I think in this case using the time-machine patch with Mural would have helped



Yes I agree but the time machine patch really seems to eat up my CPU. My goal was more to look at the out of the box sound


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

8dio Adagietto ($119!!), close and far mics, right out of the box.


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## WindcryMusic (Feb 7, 2017)

calebfaith said:


> I actually normalised the volume of each library after I'd finished recording - mural just has a larger dynamic range. Also I used the Stereo Mixed Mics (the middle setting, can't remember which it is) for Mural to make it more fair as CSS was using a mixed mic. The only unfair one would be Hollywood Strings which was only the mid mic because that's all I have.



Sounds right, thanks. I only have SSS rather than Mural, so I lack any mixed mic settings for Spitfire, but I would assume the mixed mic setting for Mural is more roomy than that of CSS, which has a relatively close and dry mixed mic by default.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 7, 2017)

I did like all the samples in the video to some extent, but *Caleb* let me heartily recommend to somehow check out the Spiccato/Staccato in Albion One. For me it hits a really sweet spot for rhythms, and to be forthright you can't go wrong with the first III Albions in general (IV and V are more niche).


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 7, 2017)

Here the one with SSS. (Turn up the speakers, no limiter..nothing, just out of the box)


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 7, 2017)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Here the one with SSS. (Turn up the speakers, no limiter..nothing, just out of the box)




Hey I like this! Very ready to go.


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

Albion One Strings patch, four instances, high strings panned slightly left. Close and Tree mics at full.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> Albion One Strings patch, four instances, high strings panned slightly left. Close and Tree mics at full.




THIS is what I'm talkin' 'bout!


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> THIS is what I'm talkin' 'bout!


It does sound very sweet.


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

Cinematic Strings 2, some panning, close and room mics, no reverb.


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## N.Caffrey (Feb 7, 2017)

Gabriel Oliveira said:


> SCS:
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/65168053/scs.wav
> 
> ...



It sounds really good! haha I'm dying for you note.. 
When you do the transposition trick, do you apply the same mics to all of them? let's say in V1 you have a bit of C, full T and some A, would you replicate that in the other patches?


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## Syneast (Feb 7, 2017)

*Albion 1:* Out of the box. Tree mics. Spicc Ostinatum patch used for 1st violins and Short Ostinatum patch used for 2nd violins. Short patch used for violas and basses.
*Albion 1 TM: *Same as above using time-machine patches adjusted to taste.
*Cinematic Strings 2:* Staccatissimo. Out of the box, no reverb. Basses transposed up one octave to match the rest.
*EWQLSO: *Out of the box. Stage mics.
*VSL SE vol1 Plus: *Releases at max. Rest out of the box. Same patch used for 1st and 2nd violins since they are playing different octaves.
*VSL SE vol1 Plus Processed: *Same as above but mixed, panned, eq:ed and reverbed.



Despite being very wet and being an ensemble library, I really like the spiccatos in Albion 1 because they sound messy in a real sort of way. Albion's spiccato patches are devided enough to get away with this sort of line. I think my time-machine example sounds pretty close to the SSS example earlier.


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## John Busby (Feb 7, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> the Albion One Spiccato./Staccato patch


yep! i use this one A LOT


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## ctsai89 (Feb 7, 2017)

logic pro x has a lot of good spiccatos lol!. If spiccato is the thing i care about the most i wouldn't have gone kontakt and gone for the other libraries besides the ones logic already has.


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

And finally, since I like to combine libraries, Adagietto and Albion One.


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## sazema (Feb 7, 2017)

Here is more (out of the box):

Metropolis ARK1
Metropolis ARK2
Berlin Strings (Full ensemble)
Berlin Strings (blended sections)
Sable Strings (Mix mics)


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

Not loving ARK2. It's that wet out of the box?


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## Syneast (Feb 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> Albion One Strings patch, four instances, high strings panned slightly left. Close and Tree mics at full.



Wow, it's sooo much tighter than my Albion 1 example above, in both a good and a bad way. It sounds like all the 50+ish(?) string players are playing the notes at the exact same time. Almost sounds like a smaller ensemble because of it. I imagine they would make a perfect mix together with Albion 1's more sloppy spiccatos.


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

Syneast said:


> Wow, it's sooo much tighter than my Albion 1 example above, in both a good and a bad way. It sounds like all the 50+ish(?) string players are playing the notes at the exact same time. Almost sounds like a smaller ensemble because of it. I imagine they would make a perfect mix together with Albion 1's more sloppy spiccatos.


You can also loosen up the Adagietto spiccatos. You could also delay some of the tracks. A lot of ways to humanize it.


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## rottoy (Feb 7, 2017)

Syneast said:


> *Albion 1:* Out of the box. Tree mics. Spicc Ostinatum patch used for 1st violins and Short Ostinatum patch used for 2nd violins. Short patch used for violas and basses.
> *Albion 1 TM: *Same as above using time-machine patches adjusted to taste.
> *Cinematic Strings 2:* Staccatissimo. Out of the box, no reverb. Basses transposed up one octave to match the rest.
> *EWQLSO: *Out of the box. Stage mics.
> ...



Out of all the examples posted in the thread so far, the old Albion 1 TM spics sound the best to me.
As you say, a mix between messy realism and precise timing.


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## Syneast (Feb 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> You can also loosen up the Adagietto spiccatos. You could also delay some of the tracks. A lot of ways to humanize it.


I was refering to your Albion One only example, but it probably helps some to mess up the timing between the tracks.


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

Syneast said:


> I was refering to your Albion One only example, but it probably helps some to mess up the timing between the tracks.


I liked the Albion One alone track a lot, but it IS a little too perfect. One of the problems with an ensemble patch, I think.


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## sazema (Feb 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> Not loving ARK2. It's that wet out of the box?


Yes


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

sazema said:


> Yes


I'll pass then. I'm of the opinion that a little reverb goes a long way.


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## muk (Feb 7, 2017)

And Dimension Strings:



They play nice and tight, and I like the classical sound.


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## JohnBMears (Feb 7, 2017)

R. Soul said:


> CSS does sound very nice.
> 
> I don't have any new-ish libraries but just in case anyone is interested, here it is using LASS Lite.




With a lot of reverb right?


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## sazema (Feb 7, 2017)

Now, it will be interesting to blend all of those soundcloud files together into one super-powerfull spiccato


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## Rodney Money (Feb 7, 2017)

Just curious, isn't "staccato" a possible louder articulation since it's actually a "bowed stroke" instead of just bouncing off the string like a "spiccato?"


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## R. Soul (Feb 7, 2017)

JohnBMears said:


> With a lot of reverb right?


Yep, sorry forgot to mention. I used Valhalla room, as LASS Lite is quite dry.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> I'll pass then. I'm of the opinion that a little reverb goes a long way.



I'm not much a fan of either Arks for strings (the brass and choirs however can be quite good). I'm glad I didn't buy them, as I already have the Albions (except 5), East West, Adagio.


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Feb 7, 2017)

N.Caffrey said:


> When you do the transposition trick, do you apply the same mics to all of them? let's say in V1 you have a bit of C, full T and some A, would you replicate that in the other patches?



Identical settings on all 3 patches


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## calebfaith (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks everyone for all the great examples! I think we've pretty much covered every major string library haha



Rodney Money said:


> Just curious, isn't "staccato" a possible louder articulation since it's actually a "bowed stroke" instead of just bouncing off the string like a "spiccato?"



Yes staccato can technically be louder but in the sampling world you can do anything


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

calebfaith said:


> Thanks everyone for all the great examples! I think we've pretty much covered every major string library haha
> 
> 
> 
> Yes staccato can technically be louder but in the sampling world you can do anything


I tried doing it with Kirk Hunter chamber strings and while it sounded decent, I didn't think it was worth posting...


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 7, 2017)

muk said:


> And Dimension Strings:
> 
> 
> 
> They play nice and tight, and I like the classical sound.




The Dimension Strings sound great. There is a level of detail in the sound that I really like. Are you using MIR, MIRx, or some other reverb? Whatever it is, I like it!


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 7, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Just curious, isn't "staccato" a possible louder articulation since it's actually a "bowed stroke" instead of just bouncing off the string like a "spiccato?"



Yes, a real spiccato is a very light sound, and impossible to get very loud without breaking into a true staccato. But with samples, anything is possible I suppose. You ruined it for me. I was enjoying the thread.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 7, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Yes, a real spiccato is a very light sound, and impossible to get very loud without breaking into a true staccato. But with samples, anything is possible I suppose. You ruined it for me. I was enjoying the thread.


Sorry, my friend. Just trying to "keep it real."


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Feb 7, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Sorry, my friend. Just trying to "keep it real."



Not about real or not real, just semantics. CH talked about this somewhere.


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## ctsai89 (Feb 7, 2017)

VSL lol..... worst sounding library ever.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Feb 7, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> VSL lol..... worst sounding library ever.


Could you try contribute to this forum rather than just consistently bashing VSL and mocking those who like it.


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## Saxer (Feb 7, 2017)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Could you try contribute to this forum rather than just consistently bashing VSL and mocking those who like it.


+1


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## Lotias (Feb 7, 2017)

Syneast said:


> *Albion 1:* Out of the box. Tree mics. Spicc Ostinatum patch used for 1st violins and Short Ostinatum patch used for 2nd violins. Short patch used for violas and basses.
> *Albion 1 TM: *Same as above using time-machine patches adjusted to taste.
> *Cinematic Strings 2:* Staccatissimo. Out of the box, no reverb. Basses transposed up one octave to match the rest.
> *EWQLSO: *Out of the box. Stage mics.
> ...



Something tells me the VSL demos would sound better if the release tails were_ not _left at max. I made that mistake before and it's not quite right - the ideal solution is to add a bit of reverb so that the sound isn't so suddenly cut off.


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## kurtvanzo (Feb 7, 2017)

calebfaith said:


> Thanks everyone for all the great examples! I think we've pretty much covered every major string library haha



Ahhhh no. I like CSS, CS2, Albion One and 1, but your forgetting 2 major ones, Symphobia 1 and Cinestrings ...


Edit: reloaded after finding error (below).


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## robgb (Feb 7, 2017)

kurtvanzo said:


> Ahhhh no. I like CSS, CS2, Albion One and 1, but your forgetting 2 major ones, Symphobia 1 and Cinestrings ...



The Symphobia sounds great but a bit soft for the piece. The Cinestrings sounds terrible to my ears.


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## Saxer (Feb 7, 2017)

Are some of the Cinestrings 8vb?


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## kurtvanzo (Feb 7, 2017)

Saxer said:


> Are some of the Cinestrings 8vb?



No, and I didn't change any of the midi....

Actually just double checked and found the keyswitches on the bass are in a different location, so my first upload had the basses set to sustain, apologies. Just reloaded it with all on Spiccato setting. Hope that explains it. Thanks Saxer.


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## Arbee (Feb 7, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> VSL lol..... worst sounding library ever.


I'm really not sure why you use every opportunity on this forum to bash VSL, perhaps you have some bad history with them (or any other undisclosed agenda)? I'm not a fan of the Spitfire sound whatsoever but I do respect that many folk here love it.


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## xenon1 (Feb 7, 2017)

I don't like solo strings and ensemble brass(not DM brass) of VSL but imo DM strings and woodwinds are the best until now. Chamber and Orchestral strings are also great.

I think the worst shortcoming of VSL is not the libraries but the e-licenser policy. If I lose the dongle key I must buy again the libraries for almost the full price. I should spend more than 1000 euroes if I break usb for mistake. And I must buy new dongle key every 2 years. 
To be honest this is nonsence.
I always hesitate about VSL for this reason.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 7, 2017)

That's a good test piece, calebfaith. Pile on a little more stuff, modulate, and you have a great TV promo cue.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 7, 2017)

xenon1, you don't have to buy a new dongle every two years. Why would you lose or break the dongle key? I've had VSL since I think 2003... although if I remember right the Cube didn't use eLicenser née Syncrosoft.

Anyway, I've had it for years with ne'er a dongle mishap.


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## xenon1 (Feb 7, 2017)

no, You have the wrong information. USB elicenser is essential now. and I must buy a new dongle every 2 years.

http://vsl.co.at/community/posts/t4...g-problem-------Read-before-buying#post255225

1. lose usb : must buy libraries or software again
2. break usb : must pay 20 euroes/single license, so more than 1000 euroes if you have bundles like symphonic cube or super package.
3. usb damaged without extraneous cause(If over than warrenty period-2 years) : also must pay 20 euroes/single license.
4. usb damaged without extraneous cause(within 2 years) : free


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## Syneast (Feb 7, 2017)

Lotias said:


> Something tells me the VSL demos would sound better if the release tails were_ not _left at max. I made that mistake before and it's not quite right - the ideal solution is to add a bit of reverb so that the sound isn't so suddenly cut off.


To each his own.  I like the natural releases. They tend to sound cut off with just reverb, me thinks.


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## Lotias (Feb 7, 2017)

Syneast said:


> To each his own.  I like the natural releases. They tend to sound cut off with just reverb, me thinks.


Naturally I don't think the whole tail of the note is there in such fast passages.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 7, 2017)

xenon1, has anyone actually lost money by having a Steinberg dongle fail? I understand what you're saying, but some of the people in that thread seemed overly wound up to me.

Also, I have a feeling that most companies would take care of their customers if something drastic happened, despite the official policy. You can't count on that, of course - which is why people have equipment insurance - but it's hard to imagine anyone really paying thousands of Euros because of a broken dongle.

Anyway, the real issue is that VSL has a lot of excellent libraries, so it's too bad that this is such an obstacle.


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## xenon1 (Feb 7, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> xenon1, has anyone actually lost money by having a Steinberg dongle fail? I understand what you're saying, but some of the people in that thread seemed overly wound up to me.
> 
> Also, I have a feeling that most companies would take care of their customers if something drastic happened, despite the official policy. You can't count on that, of course - which is why people have equipment insurance - but it's hard to imagine anyone really paying thousands of Euros because of a broken dongle.
> 
> Anyway, the real issue is that VSL has a lot of excellent libraries, so it's too bad that this is such an obstacle.




Nick, sorry to say but many of VSL users including one of my friend lost elicenser, and as far as I know They have never been rescued from VSL. Some of them bought the libraries again, and other of them gave up.


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## Syneast (Feb 7, 2017)

Lotias said:


> Naturally I don't think the whole tail of the note is there in such fast passages.


Agree, but it still sounds cut off, because it is. It's even worse without the reverb. To be fair, none of the other libraries in the test does that. Well, maybe Hollywood Strings cuts them short.


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## Lotias (Feb 7, 2017)

Syneast said:


> Agree, but it still sounds cut off, because it is. It's even worse without the reverb. To be fair, none of the other libraries in the test does that. Well, maybe Hollywood Strings cuts them short.


The idea is setting a nice minimum for release tails so you get the best of both.


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## muk (Feb 7, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> The Dimension Strings sound great. There is a level of detail in the sound that I really like. Are you using MIR, MIRx, or some other reverb? Whatever it is, I like it!



Yes, I think so too. I don't have Mir, nor Mirx. I use something conceptually similar, but older and much more inexpensive: Origami. Sounds very good in my opinion, and it lets you load any IR you want. I wrote a bit about my setup here:

http://vi-control.net/community/threads/vsl-dimension-strings-template-tutorial.44806/

I changed and refined it since then, but the basics are the same.



ctsai89 said:


> VSL lol..... worst sounding library ever.



It's safe to ignore this nonsense completely. Trolling much?


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## ctsai89 (Feb 8, 2017)

Arbee said:


> I'm really not sure why you use every opportunity on this forum to bash VSL, perhaps you have some bad history with them (or any other undisclosed agenda)? I'm not a fan of the Spitfire sound whatsoever but I do respect that many folk here love it.



sorry, I think I unintentionally did that because I'm intersted in what responses i'm going to get and in fact I got one i wanted. sSo what is it about spitfire's sound that you don't liike? I'm very curious

mine's quite simple for VSL. Synthy, Plastic, even with a good reverb. All their demoes have at least 1/5 of the whole piece sounding like a mockup when a mockup is supposed to be able to fool but it fails.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Feb 8, 2017)

muk said:


> It's safe to ignore this nonsense completely. Trolling much?



Yeah, the guy has absolutely no idea.


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## zeng (Feb 8, 2017)

I am in love with Spitfire Chamber Strings. Test done with Close mics only. It sounds like a real strings live recording.


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## ysnyvz (Feb 8, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Just curious, isn't "staccato" a possible louder articulation since it's actually a "bowed stroke" instead of just bouncing off the string like a "spiccato?"


There is an articulation called "collé". You can use it like loud spiccato.


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## Arbee (Feb 8, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> So what is it about spitfire's sound that you don't liike? I'm very curious


It comes down to which compromises you're most prepared to make, what style of music you're most interested in, and to your personal taste.

At the driest end of the spectrum we have VSL which by default sounds exposed and raw but provides presence and definition (especially when it comes to legato) and flexibility. And, believe it or not, real instruments in a room or small studio with you do sound rather like this. Picking just two examples, Guy's Solo Violin and Chamber Cello demos speak for themselves. Granted, there is no instant gratification with VSL and yes, it can sound rather sterile, especially if the more expressive articulations are ignored. I find VSL best served put into a MIR studio (not hall) then reverb added to taste.

Then at the most ambient end we have Spitfire, which by design sounds very "large concert hall", rich and lush, but lacks in presence and legato. I know many are happy to forgive legato, but my ears are immediately drawn to the unnatural sound of manufactured or absent note transitions in a melodic line. And in my view, the close mics add very little to the presence. Somewhat unkind and unfair I know, but to illustrate my view, I think of Spitfire comparatively as listening through a sock.

In between the VSL and Spitfire extremes we get LASS, Berlin, EW, ProjectSAM, 8Dio, Cinesamples and Cinematic (among others). Once I get as far along the ambient path as Berlin/Teldex Studio, that's about as far as my taste for "baked in room" goes. For me, this means Spitfire is like a boutique spice in the rack - treasured for what it is, but used only on rare special occasions.

I have the utmost respect for the hard work that all developers put into all of this, but no one approach is going to suit everyone. Spitfire has its approach which obviously suits its many, many devotees. In closing, I'll just say that VSL's software and quality control seem to be exceptional (not saying perfect). How often do we hear that "this latest library x is the best thing ever! OMG, OMG!" followed some time later by "oh well, except for when I do this, or this, or this....".

I simply just prefer the flexibility of a studio sound as an orchestral foundation, and with relatively few bugs or nasty surprises - no more complicated than that. I have bought Spitfire product, so this is not just based on demos or hearsay.

Does that answer your question?


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## Spitfire Team (Feb 8, 2017)

Hi Arbee,

We have over a dozen orchestral libraries that have the articulations you talk of, I'd be very keen to know which libraries of ours you're referring to? Which do you own? Are there some patches you could name to substantiate your claim, or indeed help us with? As an owner I'm sure you're aware of the different mic positions that can help you "de-sock" your arrangements?

Best.

Christian.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 8, 2017)

Spitfire Team said:


> Hi Arbee,
> 
> We have over a dozen orchestral libraries that have the articulations you talk of, I'd be very keen to know which libraries of ours you're referring to? Which do you own? Are there some patches you could name to substantiate your claim, or indeed help us with? As an owner I'm sure you're aware of the different mic positions that can help you "de-sock" your arrangements?
> 
> ...



I thought the comment about the legatos was kind of strange; I personally don't have a problem with them (in either the Legacy Albion or One, or ANY of the Albions I own, really)...but then, I also don't use the Spitfire stuff to sound "ultra-realistic". I use it to lay out my ideas in a coherent, easy-to-adapt-live-performance way. The Spitfire (and EW, etc) libraries aren't meant to be the final sound for my compositions (though they could be used in some contexts that way). They're just a fine guide.

See below for details, please.




Arbee said:


> Once I get as far along the ambient path as Berlin/Teldex Studio, that's about as far as my taste for "baked in room" goes. For me, this means Spitfire is like a boutique spice in the rack - treasured for what it is, but used only on rare special occasions.



As far as this boutique spice thing goes...I could be wrong, but (at least) the Albions were created with the mock up in mind, and as far as making a mock up goes, they're easily up to the task. Your comments about the room noise/ambience won't have much truck with people who are merely interesting in making said mockups (sketches)...Spitfire gets the rough sketch thing done with flying colors. It doesn't take much imagination to listen to a well done mockup and be able to pick out what the composer is driving at, from multiple perspectives. The mockups I've made with the Albions (and East West) have been used toward live orchestration and band situations. The only questions I'd get would be about the structure of the piece, arrangement...sometimes a producer will ask me if I really want this oboe here instead of an English horn, that kind of thing (not as often these days).

However, if you're talking about making realistic orchestral sounds and trying to impress others with a fake out...I haven't been interested enough in that kind of thing to partake in such an endeavor, but yes I imagine the Spitfire products' faults would stand out in that context.

In fewer words, Spitfire is giving us the tools to write sketches that get across (in large part) what we are envisioning. This is a seriously important thing...I can't be alone in thinking this.

It's the people who do get caught up about "realism" and "legato" for long periods of time who aren't really interested in making great music (beginning with articulate sketches). I'm sure that doesn't apply to all who obsess over such things, but I'm willing to bet it's true 8 out of 10 times.

I'd be worried about Spitfire if I cheerleaded and immediately bought everything they sold. I only need so many options for a sketch...


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 8, 2017)

@Arbee I agree with 95% of your post. Perhaps I appreciate the wetter libraries a bit more than you, but otherwise we agree. During my life I have spent literally countless hours in small rooms practicing cello, trombone and other instruments, so that I find a drier sound more familiar and more "natural" to my ears. When I played in orchestra or British style brass band we always rehearsed in rehearsal rooms, never anything as large as the AIR studios or the Berlin Teledex studio. Even during performances, being in the "midst" of the ensemble, you hear the details. You are close to the sound source. So even for ensemble I am most accustomed to a drier, more detailed sound. For me, the wetter recordings obscure details. But I can still appreciate the beautiful aesthetic effect of the wetter libraries.

Despite owning a complete collection of VSL instruments, I have been enraptured by Berlin Brass. I have watched the videos several times, and I am very tempted to purchase it. The attraction of the "wet" side is enticing.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 8, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> @Arbee I have been enraptured by Berlin Brass. I have watched the videos several times, and I am very tempted to purchase it. The attraction of the "wet" side is enticing.



I've messed with that brass library at my friend's computer, and it does seem really great. However, that's one of those purchases that would be more of a collector's thing for me, as I already have the aforementioned Spitfire, not to mention EWH and Hein. In fact, my consideration of Berlin Brass is what helped me start putting my investment into sketch palettes more in perspective...as mentioned above, exactly how ornate do I need my sketches to be?


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Feb 8, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> However, if you're talking about making realistic orchestral sounds and trying to impress others with a fake out...I haven't been interested enough in that kind of thing to partake in such an endeavor, but yes I imagine the Spitfire products' faults would stand out in that context.



Andy B disagrees


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 8, 2017)

> Parsifal666 said: ↑
> However, if you're talking about making realistic orchestral sounds and trying to impress others with a fake out...I haven't been interested enough in that kind of thing to partake in such an endeavor, but yes I imagine the Spitfire products' faults would stand out in that context.





Gabriel Oliveira said:


> Andy B disagrees



Who's Andy B? And by the way, to an extent _*I myself*_ disagree somewhat with that part of what I wrote .

I did after all put out an album using Garritan alone that fooled the vast majority of people who bought it (who added up to not many) lol! And no, I'm not sharing the album because even I know it _sucks_ LOL!


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## kavinsky (Feb 8, 2017)

zeng said:


> I am in love with Spitfire Chamber Strings. Test done with Close mics only. It sounds like a real strings live recording.



this is reflective of my experience with SCS
they sound amazing but I always struggle with basses, they're way too boomy and random


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 8, 2017)

muk said:


> Yes, I think so too. I don't have Mir, nor Mirx. I use something conceptually similar, but older and much more inexpensive: Origami. Sounds very good in my opinion, and it lets you load any IR you want. I wrote a bit about my setup here:
> 
> http://vi-control.net/community/threads/vsl-dimension-strings-template-tutorial.44806/
> 
> I changed and refined it since then, but the basics are the same.



Thanks for the link, AND for the original post. A really excellent post and thread about VSL Dimension Strings. I also listened to all of your soundcloud tracks. You have also posted some CSS tracks. What is your view of VSL DS compared to CSS?


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## muk (Feb 8, 2017)

Both are quite different, and I am very happy with both. CSS is great for a lush golden Hollywood sound. It sounds romantic, mellow, and a bit dark. Dimension Strings is focused, precise, and brighter. A very classical sound. I tend to use Dimension Strings for concert works or anything in a classical vein, and CSS for anything filmic or tv. The workflow differs too, obviously, but I am fine with both.

Off topic:
By the way, my Soundcloud is just random bits and pieces. Better go to my box-link. There are some DS-pieces and CSS-pieces there:

https://app.box.com/s/s7az8ggc156q0hzpnmyxfjq3270s6oqi


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## robgb (Feb 8, 2017)

xenon1 said:


> Nick, sorry to say but many of VSL users including one of my friend lost elicenser, and as far as I know They have never been rescued from VSL. Some of them bought the libraries again, and other of them gave up.


This is just wrong of VSL on so many levels it makes me a little sick. If their libraries cost a few bucks, it might be easy to shrug off, but at hundreds or even thousands of dollars? How does VSL justify this?


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## robgb (Feb 8, 2017)

zeng said:


> I am in love with Spitfire Chamber Strings. Test done with Close mics only. It sounds like a real strings live recording.



I love the dryness of those close strings.


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## robgb (Feb 8, 2017)

Spitfire Team said:


> Hi Arbee,
> 
> We have over a dozen orchestral libraries that have the articulations you talk of, I'd be very keen to know which libraries of ours you're referring to? Which do you own? Are there some patches you could name to substantiate your claim, or indeed help us with? As an owner I'm sure you're aware of the different mic positions that can help you "de-sock" your arrangements?
> 
> ...


Christian, if you need a relatively independent voice in this discussion to express his honest opinion, I'm more than happy for you to provide me with copies of all your libraries...


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## robgb (Feb 8, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> However, if you're talking about making realistic orchestral sounds and trying to impress others with a fake out...


I always wonder about the fake out business. Who are we trying to impress? Other composers? Because that's a losing proposition. It reminds me of magicians trying to impress other magicians while completely ignoring their real audience—lay people who wouldn't know a bottom deal from a side steal. Most of the people who hear your work don't even realize that 90% of the music they hear on their favorite TV shows (for example) comes from an orchestra in a box. And, ultimately, they're the ones who matter. If you're trying to "fake out" composers who deal with these tools every day, you will rarely, if ever, succeed.


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## muk (Feb 8, 2017)

robgb said:


> This is just wrong of VSL on so many levels it makes me a little sick. If their libraries cost a few bucks, it might be easy to shrug off, but at hundreds or even thousands of dollars? How does VSL justify this?



On their forum they wrote that they can't deactivate licenses, so you could just pretend to have lost the licenser to get another copy of the libraries. If I remember correctly you have to rebuy at 50% of the official price if your dongle gets lost or stolen. They should be more upfront about this in my opinion.


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## robgb (Feb 8, 2017)

muk said:


> On their forum they wrote that they can't deactivate licenses, so you could just pretend to have lost the licenser to get another copy of the libraries. If I remember correctly you have to rebuy at 50% of the official price if your dongle gets lost or stolen. They should be more upfront about this in my opinion.


This is enough to make me want to avoid buying VSL.


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## sazema (Feb 8, 2017)

Do we have Mural?

Only tree mics


Close + tree mics


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## muk (Feb 8, 2017)

That's the catch with copy protection. VSL is generally friendly and professional towards customers. They do, for example, allow resales of their libraries, which many other sample devs don't. But loose your dongle and you lost your licenses.


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## kavinsky (Feb 8, 2017)

sazema said:


> Do we have Mural?


we do


AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Here the one with SSS. (Turn up the speakers, no limiter..nothing, just out of the box)


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## sazema (Feb 8, 2017)

kavinsky said:


> we do


Ok, my samples are an un-updated Mural - first version.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 8, 2017)

The thing is, this particular cue needs to be dry so the notes have extra definition. It probably wouldn't work as well with real strings (unless they were doubled with a piano), or at least the effect would be different.

It's all context with samples.


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## R. Soul (Feb 8, 2017)

Having listened to all the examples so far, SSS and CSS are unsurprisingly my favourites.
I'm surprised by the sound of Ark 1. Not sure if it's the room or what, but I can't say I like it much.

By the way, great ostinato Caleb.


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## The Darris (Feb 8, 2017)

I still think this, now incredibly old, library has the one of the best Spiccato sounds out there. Spiccato is a lighter articulations and a lot of newer libraries tend to make them incredibly over powered in my opinion. They become more of a Short Staccato/Spiccato hybrid as the players start to play more on the bow in the upper dynamics. However so, this library got them right the first time and as you can hear, in the loudest dynamic, they are still a bit reserved and light sounding. Also, you got to love the clarity of it too. This was a very well mixed and recorded library.

Best, C



_[edit: This is the kontakt version of SISS and I've added additional round robin scripting to the Up and down bow alternating patches which gives it a bit more depth in terms of flexibility. This is a single mixed library so there are no microphone positions to mix. This is the directly out of the box sound.]_


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## Chris Hein (Feb 8, 2017)

How about some Solo Strings?
Here is the great MIDI played with the Spiccato 5 articulation from Chris Hein - Solo Strings:
Violin, Violin 2 (Upcoming instrument), Viola, Romantic Cello, Contrabass


Chris Hein


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## robgb (Feb 8, 2017)

muk said:


> That's the catch with copy protection. VSL is generally friendly and professional towards customers. They do, for example, allow resales of their libraries, which many other sample devs don't. But loose your dongle and you lost your licenses.


To my mind, if I spent thousands buying a library, losing a dongle should damn well not translate to losing my license or you'll be hearing from my lawyer.


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## robgb (Feb 8, 2017)

The Darris said:


> I still think this, now incredibly old, library has the one of the best Spiccato sounds out there. Spiccato is a lighter articulations and a lot of newer libraries tend to make them incredibly over powered in my opinion. They become more of a Short Staccato/Spiccato hybrid as the players start to play more on the bow in the upper dynamics. However so, this library got them right the first time and as you can hear, in the loudest dynamic, they are still a bit reserved and light sounding. Also, you got to love the clarity of it too. This was a very well mixed and recorded library.
> 
> Best, C
> 
> ...



Aren't these the same strings that Sonivox is now selling as Orchestral Companion Strings for a buck?


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## The Darris (Feb 8, 2017)

robgb said:


> Aren't these the same strings that Sonivox is now selling as Orchestral Companion Strings for a buck?


I think? I haven't used the Companion library to know for sure. If it is 100% the same samples, than I would encourage those to pick it up since it's on sale for $70 right now. The biggest downside to that library is that it is an ensemble based library so you don't get the sections in separate patches or the additional articulations included in the original library.


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## robgb (Feb 8, 2017)

The Darris said:


> I think? I haven't used the Companion library to know for sure. If it is 100% the same samples, than I would encourage those to pick it up since it's on sale for $70 right now.


I picked it up for a buck recently. The strings sound great. The problem with the library is that it has no modwheel dynamic control, despite the website saying it does. But you can't go wrong for a buck.


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## mac (Feb 8, 2017)

*-----* Edit :my bad, I bounced out staccato and not spiccato. I've added spics below. I'll leave the stac there too for reference. *-----*

Here's NI's symphony series string ensemble out of the box. No automation, no midi massaging, no volume levelling (because I'm lazy).

Spiccato https://clyp.it/3fnp3qpe

Accidental staccato  https://clyp.it/2hmxxi5b


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## The Darris (Feb 8, 2017)

robgb said:


> I picked it up for a buck recently. The strings sound great. The problem with the library is that it has no modwheel dynamic control, despite the website saying it does. But you can't go wrong for a buck.


Exactly, the version I have was originally in Giga format and I converted it over to the kontakt version. It does have crossfading capabilities as well as a more comprehensive list of articulations that aren't in the companion. SoniVox basically stripped it down, it seems, to a basic plugin as an entry level orchestral palette.


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## ctsai89 (Feb 8, 2017)

Arbee said:


> It comes down to which compromises you're most prepared to make, what style of music you're most interested in, and to your personal taste.
> 
> At the driest end of the spectrum we have VSL which by default sounds exposed and raw but provides presence and definition (especially when it comes to legato) and flexibility. And, believe it or not, real instruments in a room or small studio with you do sound rather like this. Picking just two examples, Guy's Solo Violin and Chamber Cello demos speak for themselves. Granted, there is no instant gratification with VSL and yes, it can sound rather sterile, especially if the more expressive articulations are ignored. I find VSL best served put into a MIR studio (not hall) then reverb added to taste.
> 
> ...



honestly I could care less about the hall and all. There are plenty of other things that affects how a library sounds. There's no denying that hall is one factor but it doesn't trump other factors all combined together. I.E. Spitfire has a great great sound to me, the players they hired to record does some of the most exquisite vibratos I have heard from any sample libraries can do. Regarding legato though, some of their patches aren't good for it but some are actually very very good. Enough detail to be believable but its not as controllable as each legato transitions seem to have a slight different delay time but the delay is no where as nearly as annoying as CSS's. So yes there are nasty surprises in legatos in spitfire but with the one's in SSS, i can live with them. Most of woodwind's legatos aren't bad either, there are some unsmooth transitiions but they are capable of being worked out. 

I think you make good points though

but I think VSL need to make better demoes. I don't believe the whole "dry" thing is the cause of my ears telling me VSL (especially strings) sound fake. Spitfire definitley picked the right players who own the right rare instruments imho, not sure about VSL though.


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## The Darris (Feb 8, 2017)

mac said:


> Here's NI's symphony series string ensemble out of the box. No automation, no midi massaging, no volume levelling (because I'm lazy).
> 
> https://clyp.it/2hmxxi5b (You guys really need to allow clyp embeds on the forum!)



There is zero bite in that library which is a shame. I've used this library in other studios since it came out and the sound is not very desirable for me. However, I do love the scripting and functionality. the AudioBro team certainly knows how to make a product that works well.


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## robgb (Feb 8, 2017)

The Darris said:


> Exactly, the version I have was originally in Giga format and I converted it over to the kontakt version. It does have crossfading capabilities as well as a more comprehensive list of articulations that aren't in the companion. SoniVox basically stripped it down, it seems, to a basic plugin as an entry level orchestral palette.


Right. I wouldn't mind so much if their website didn't say this: "All instruments are presented in multi-velocity layers, with natural swells available via the modulation wheel." But I can't complain for a buck. I've considered using Samplit to rerecord the samples and turn them into a Kontakt instrument so I can add the swells. They're great for layering.


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 8, 2017)

mac said:


> Here's NI's symphony series string ensemble out of the box. No automation, no midi massaging, no volume levelling (because I'm lazy).
> 
> https://clyp.it/2hmxxi5b (You guys really need to allow clyp embeds on the forum!)



Sounded good. The surprising thing to me, is that so many different string libraries sound extremely convincing with this particular clip. That is not to mean that they all sound the same, they don't, nor that I like them all equally, I don't, but all of them are far beyond what anyone would have hoped for 20 years ago. The sample industry has made enormous progress, especially in the last ten years.


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## The Darris (Feb 8, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> I don't believe the whole "dry" thing is the cause of my ears telling me VSL (especially strings) sound fake. Spitfire definitley picked the right players who own the right rare instruments imho, not sure about VSL though.



I disagree to an extent. Dry samples miss out on one thing which is getting the proper harmonic response of the instrument in a room. You really have to understand those characteristic in the instrument in order to get a good sound. This is done with proper reverb treatment and EQing to get those harmonic points to respond more in your virtual space. Libraries recorded wet like Spitfire, CineSamples, Orchestral Tools, etc, are able to get the real characteristics of those instruments and how they interact in a real space. Everything about VSL and similar libraries has to be created virtually and if you don't really understand the true characteristics of the instrument or ensemble, you will usually fall short of it sounding genuinely good. Dry instrument do some things way better though which is dynamic crossfading and legatos. Because of the room characteristics, its very hard for developers to create really good sounding dynamic and legato transitions.


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## robgb (Feb 8, 2017)

The Darris said:


> I disagree to an extent. Dry samples miss out on one thing which is getting the proper harmonic response of the instrument in a room. You really have to understand those characteristic in the instrument in order to get a good sound. This is done with proper reverb treatment and EQing to get those harmonic points to respond more in your virtual space. Libraries recorded wet like Spitfire, CineSamples, Orchestral Tools, etc, are able to get the real characteristics of those instruments and how they interact in a real space. Everything about VSL and similar libraries has to be created virtually and if you don't really understand the true characteristics of the instrument or ensemble, you will usually fall short of it sounding genuinely good. Dry instrument do some things way better though which is dynamic crossfading and legatos. Because of the room characteristics, its very hard for developers to create really good sounding dynamic and legato transitions.


I prefer my instruments dry but I do appreciate the baked-in room sounds as well. The best of both worlds, to my mind, is layering the dry with the baked-in. The Adagietto/Albion One sample I did above is an example of this—although Adagietto is not strictly a dry library. Its close mics are drier, however, than most. Anyway, I think that example sounds better than either the Adagietto alone or the Albion One alone. And would sound even better with some proper mixing/EQ, etc.

I have to be careful talking about such things, however, for fear of getting jumped on...


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## mac (Feb 8, 2017)

The Darris said:


> There is zero bite in that library which is a shame. I've used this library in other studios since it came out and the sound is not very desirable for me. However, I do love the scripting and functionality. the AudioBro team certainly knows how to make a product that works well.



Your comment made me go back and check --- you're right, I'd used staccato and not spiccato. I've added the spics file now to my post, so there should be a little more bite.


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## The Darris (Feb 8, 2017)

robgb said:


> I prefer my instruments dry but I do appreciate the baked-in room sounds as well. The best of both worlds, to my mind, is layering the dry with the baked-in. The Adagietto/Albion One sample I did above is an example of this—although Adagietto is not strictly a dry library. It's close mics are drier, however, than most. Anyway, I think that example sounds better than either the Adagietto alone or the Albion One alone. And would sound even better with some proper mixing/EQ, etc.
> 
> I have to be careful talking about such things, however, for fear of getting jumped on...


No need to fear that. Discussions like this are really good to have. I disagree with people but try to at least be constructive with my opinions. Layering is the way to go with the two types. You just have to spend time to understand how real instruments work though. That's very important.


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## ctsai89 (Feb 8, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Sounded good. The surprising thing to me, is that so many different string libraries sound extremely convincing with this particular clip. That is not to mean that they all sound the same, they don't, nor that I like them all equally, I don't, but all of them are far beyond what anyone would have hoped for 20 years ago. The sample industry has made enormous progress, especially in the last ten years.



i hope in the next few years or so, a sample library will be updated or perhaps another string library will be out where it'll be the last one that can do anything possible, and sound like real players playing without all the riff raff tweaks and harsh programming but playing on the keyboard feeling as if you were the real players playing. Yes by looking at the direction this whole sample library industry is heading, i'm expecting that to come soon.

unless the developers all contact each other and tell each other don't make their libraries perfect because it creates a need for users to buy 1 or more libraries to cover the things their first libraries can't do. In the end of course that helps everyone's sales in the business. I'm awfully suspicious at CSS for their legato delays (which seems completely intentional to mess with the user). 

edit: Because a knob could've been created for the legato speed but why do i have to hit the keyboard so hard to trigger a responsive legato? velocity could've been set the same way as LASS which could've been way more playable.


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## kavinsky (Feb 8, 2017)

Ok
Here's a quick shootout using all of the string libraries I own plus a few of my friends' that were within my reach.
Personally I think its a lot more fun to do a blind test, so here it is


I'm not playing the whole layering game here, so the libraries are out of the box 99% of the time.
I'd love to hear your thoughts, I'm not aware of the actual order of the libraries here myself, and I feel there are some gems among these.


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## Lotias (Feb 8, 2017)

ctsai89 said:


> i hope in the next few years or so, a sample library will be updated or perhaps another string library will be out where it'll be the last one that can do anything possible, and sound like real players playing without all the riff raff tweaks and harsh programming but playing on the keyboard feeling as if you were the real players playing. Yes by looking at the direction this whole sample library industry is heading, i'm expecting that to come soon.
> 
> unless the developers all contact each other and tell each other don't make their libraries perfect because it creates a need for users to buy 1 or more libraries to cover the things their first libraries can't do. In the end of course that helps everyone's sales in the business. I'm awfully suspicious at CSS for their legato delays (which seems completely intentional to mess with the user).


With how strings are played, you'll never, ever be able to do that entirely with a keyboard. Maybe a specialized MIDI controller made to play like a bowed string instrument. But not a keyboard.


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## ctsai89 (Feb 8, 2017)

Lotias said:


> With how strings are played, you'll never, ever be able to do that entirely with a keyboard. Maybe a specialized MIDI controller made to play like a bowed string instrument. But not a keyboard.



i know that of course, just wanted to exaggerate a little. But as i said above, I think CSS comes close to that, only if they could create a knob to control legato speed. My finger tips hurt from hitting the keyboard to get a fast legato


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## calebfaith (Feb 8, 2017)

kavinsky said:


> Ok
> Here's a quick shootout using all of the string libraries I own plus a few of my friends' that were within my reach.
> Personally I think its a lot more fun to do a blind test, so here it is
> 
> I'm not playing the whole layering game here, so the libraries are out of the box 99% of the time.




Awesome! any chance you can reveal which is which? 

It's great to hear that each library has it's own identity


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## kavinsky (Feb 8, 2017)

calebfaith said:


> Awesome! any chance you can reveal which is which?


sure, but lets build some gearslutz style tension here haha
I'd love to hear what people think first, this way its a little more unbiased.

Needless to say here are so many nuances about how each library responds dynamically to midi data, its nearly impossible to make a fair comparison(without wasting too much time), so take it with a grain of salt.
For example, some of the libraries really shine in FFF register, and this piece barely touches it, 
Surprisingly some of my favorite libraries do not sound as exciting here as I expected.


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## desert (Feb 8, 2017)

Quick, someone post Christof's "Robber" theme before Caleb's one get stuck in my head


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## calebfaith (Feb 8, 2017)

Here is all the examples compiled into a SC playlist. I wasn't able to download the clyp.it one though (I think it was Symphobia)

LINK


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## robgb (Feb 8, 2017)

kavinsky said:


> Ok
> Here's a quick shootout using all of the string libraries I own plus a few of my friends' that were within my reach.
> Personally I think its a lot more fun to do a blind test, so here it is
> 
> ...



I think it's obvious you're trying trick us. These are clearly all real...


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## ryans (Feb 8, 2017)

kavinsky said:


> Ok
> Here's a quick shootout using all of the string libraries I own plus a few of my friends' that were within my reach.
> Personally I think its a lot more fun to do a blind test, so here it is
> 
> ...




I like number 9


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## bigcat1969 (Feb 8, 2017)

A quick try on the VSCO2 Community.


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## desert (Feb 8, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> A quick try on the VSCO2 Community.



Sibelius 5 sound better than that :/


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## Saxer (Feb 8, 2017)

Here's another one... but kind of 'out of competition' as it's a stack of two libraries.
It's a surprise for me as it wasn't made for spiccatos at all...


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## The Darris (Feb 9, 2017)

Here is another SF Chamber Strings version but with a slight twist. I've loaded both Close and Tree and utilized some Velocity switching so that the strings played the Staccato Dig or Staccato patch on vel 120+. Since the Violins 1 have a feathered spiccato, I set that to 30 and below. This gives some more "life" to the performance in my opinion and helps break up the stagnant sound you get when sequencing sections like this. By itself, they work great for short phrases like this but if you were to sequence out a minute or so of this ostinato with modulations and stuff, it would still start to become a little stale, in my opinion. So, ever since Sable was released, I've used my spiccato patches like this. Food for thought. Enjoy.


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## calebfaith (Feb 9, 2017)

The Darris said:


> Here is another SF Chamber Strings version but with a slight twist. I've loaded both Close and Tree and utilized some Velocity switching so that the strings played the Staccato Dig or Staccato patch on vel 120+. Since the Violins 1 have a feathered spiccato, I set that to 30 and below. This gives some more "life" to the performance in my opinion and helps break up the stagnant sound you get when sequencing sections like this. By itself, they work great for short phrases like this but if you were to sequence out a minute or so of this ostinato with modulations and stuff, it would still start to become a little stale, in my opinion. So, ever since Sable was released, I've used my spiccato patches like this. Food for thought. Enjoy.




Yeah that was really good. It adds a greater accent to each beat


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## Kuusniemi (Feb 9, 2017)

Here's a few more: Aria Sounds London Symphonic Strings, Strezov Sampling Cornucopia Strings 2 and Impact Soundworks' Furia Staccato Strings.


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## FriFlo (Feb 9, 2017)

Great thread! What I keep noticing though about people using Berlin Strings in tests like these: You seem to forget the pretty unique feature of all Capsule libraries to control the release with a CC and therefore adjust it per note (if you want to go that far). To keep it easy: look for a value, where the sound is not to dry, but also not muddy. The more notes, the shorter the release time. In this example, all strings playing 16th should get a pretty short release. Then for the last note, where you want to hear the full release, push that value up a bit (by taste). With that little trick applied, Berlin Strings will sound much better in passages like this! I am sure, there are similar tricks for the other libraries, but I happen to know OT very well, so I thought I might give that hint ...


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## kavinsky (Feb 9, 2017)

kavinsky said:


> Ok
> Here's a quick shootout using all of the string libraries I own plus a few of my friends' that were within my reach.
> Personally I think its a lot more fun to do a blind test, so here it is
> I'm not playing the whole layering game here, so the libraries are out of the box 99% of the time.
> I'd love to hear your thoughts, I'm not aware of the actual order of the libraries here myself, and I feel there are some gems among these.


Here's a fixed link, just noticed it was not working properly.


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## maxime77 (Feb 9, 2017)

CineStrings (processed):


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## Leslie Sanford (Feb 9, 2017)

Here's an attempt using VSL's Chamber Strings. I used the performance repetition samples for the double basses and violas. The other parts used the performance interval samples. I increased the velocity range to -20db for all parts as it seems a little tame out of the box. This is my first time participating in a thread of this nature, so any shortcomings you hear are mine and shouldn't be blamed on VSL.


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## EuropaWill (Feb 9, 2017)

I'm late to the game, but thought i'd ad my Dimension Strings attempt. The first run is with much less reverb, the 2nd with much more (too much).


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## FriFlo (Feb 9, 2017)

And here is my quick test with Berlin Strings alone.


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## kavinsky (Feb 9, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> I'm late to the game, but thought i'd ad my Dimension Strings attempt. The first run is with much less reverb, the 2nd with much more (too much).



I love the dry version


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## robgb (Feb 9, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> I'm late to the game, but thought i'd ad my Dimension Strings attempt. The first run is with much less reverb, the 2nd with much more (too much).



First one sounds great.


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## robgb (Feb 9, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> And here is my quick test with Berlin Strings alone.



Considering the price of Berlin, I would have expected much more. It didn't sound bad, but I've heard other libraries here that sounded better to my ears.


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## FriFlo (Feb 9, 2017)

robgb said:


> Considering the price of Berlin, I would have expected much more. It didn't sound bad, but I've heard other libraries here that sounded better to my ears.


Well, this is a spiccato test, so I only used that articulation. Berlin Strings has a lot of content, which is why it is not cheap. Tests like this one are pretty one-dimensional, so I think your verdict is a little quick.


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## Allegro (Feb 9, 2017)

robgb said:


> Considering the price of Berlin, I would have expected much more.


How about something like this?


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## robgb (Feb 9, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> Well, this is a spiccato test, so I only used that articulation. Berlin Strings has a lot of content, which is why it is not cheap. Tests like this one are pretty one-dimensional, so I think your verdict is a little quick.


Could be, but unfortunately, if I spend the $900 it costs for this library, I don't believe I'll be able to get a refund or sell the license to someone else. So, based on this test, I'd have a very hard time taking that risk—quick verdict or not.


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## EuropaWill (Feb 9, 2017)

robgb said:


> Could be, but unfortunately, if I spend the $900 it costs for this library, I don't believe I'll be able to get a refund or sell the license to someone else. So, based on this test, I'd have a very hard time taking that risk—quick verdict or not.


Their non-transferable license model certainly played into my decision when I decided against Berlin and Spitfire's Chamber Strings in favor of VSL's DS. 

Actually its exercises like this one that really helps illustrate the differences between the libraries, yet the same libraries in the hands of different users can also be illuminating.


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## EuropaWill (Feb 9, 2017)

kavinsky said:


> Here's a fixed link, just noticed it was not working properly.



Out of these renderings my favorite is #9, then #3 and #6. Wondering which they are? Can you please PM me with the names of the libraries used?


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## xenon1 (Feb 9, 2017)

sazema said:


> Do we have Mural?
> 
> Only tree mics
> 
> ...



supernatural and gorgeous!


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## bigcat1969 (Feb 9, 2017)

If you will forgive another VSCO2 Community attempt with the more correct octaves... First totally dry, second with a bit of reverb that's included in the VST. Note these are the VST versions, SFZ or Kontakt might sound different.


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## xenon1 (Feb 9, 2017)

muk said:


> On their forum they wrote that they can't deactivate licenses, so you could just pretend to have lost the licenser to get another copy of the libraries. If I remember correctly you have to rebuy at 50% of the official price if your dongle gets lost or stolen. They should be more upfront about this in my opinion.





muk said:


> That's the catch with copy protection. VSL is generally friendly and professional towards customers. They do, for example, allow resales of their libraries, which many other sample devs don't. But loose your dongle and you lost your licenses.



Sorry to say but I think copy protection is just pretext. VSL has world best programmers, but they are so so rigid for elicenser policy.And as far as I know, they haven't made any efforts about this worst issue for over 10 years. 50% of full price for usb-lost clients? Furthermore, the warrenty period of Vienna key is just 2 years .. oh...angry...and honestly they are so cruel! 50% is almost the full price because we can buy for tax-free price from other distributor+ additional discount.
If that's according to copy protection, imo VSL should offer "at least" second license for all libraries(all the Kontakt libraries offer 3 licenses)
They are not hardware company, but software company.


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## markpfx (Feb 10, 2017)

Heres VSL SE Orchestral strings and Chamber Strings with a tempo ramp played through Virtual Sound Stage 2


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## Lotias (Feb 10, 2017)

markpfx said:


> Heres VSL SE Orchestral strings and Chamber Strings with a tempo ramp played through Virtual Sound Stage 2



...why the tempo ramp?


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## N.Caffrey (Feb 10, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> If you will forgive another VSCO2 Community attempt with the more correct octaves... First totally dry, second with a bit of reverb that's included in the VST. Note these are the VST versions, SFZ or Kontakt might sound different.




I agree with someone else saying Sibelius sounds better than this


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## kavinsky (Feb 10, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> Out of these renderings my favorite is #9, then #3 and #6. Wondering which they are? Can you please PM me with the names of the libraries used?


PM'd



Allegro said:


> How about something like this?



This is one of the clear winners for me. Tons of character
I'm not a huge fan of Berlin Strings sound, but after they updated it with Exposed Spiccato patches, I must say these are one of the best available.
The usual BST spicc patch sounds very wet in comparison and with your usual OT style boring long sterile Teldex tails. Plus it handles fast ostinatos like these in a very weird and unnatural way until you enable Random RR.
The Exposed one is much more drier and agressive. Definitely the highlight of the library.


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## Polarity (Feb 10, 2017)

I listened to all: among the naked out of the box tests here my favourite is CSS spiccato.
Glad I bought CSS instead of SSS during Black Friday sales.
It's a matter of tastes of course. Usually I like the ostinatos to be detailed, gritty, relentless, accurate and not dull.

About LASS Lite... it can be better than the demo I heard in this thread!
If the SLAM parameter is turned enough it can reward you with a powerful detailed gritty sound... perhaps more than CSS. You can activate also the DOUBLE tracking button to enhance it even more.

I have also Ark 1, Albion One and ISW Furia Staccatos and used them till now as second (that is lower volume) layer to enrich the overall sound and feeling of the main ostinatos articulations (that could be LASS, CSS or CineStrings in my on work tracks) and they work very well for me.
Thanks to all for the interesting thread.


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## robgb (Feb 10, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> If you will forgive another VSCO2 Community attempt with the more correct octaves... First totally dry, second with a bit of reverb that's included in the VST. Note these are the VST versions, SFZ or Kontakt might sound different.



Part of me wants to like this simply because these sounds are free and I think the project for budget composers is a terrific one. But in all honesty, this does not sound good. Especially when stacked up against all the other libraries here. I think budget composers would be better off sprucing up the Kontakt Factory Library with SIPS/WIPS scripts. And if you're a sample library user, Kontakt should be your first purchase.

Like I said, I WANT to like this, but...


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## Polarity (Feb 10, 2017)

Allegro said:


> How about something like this?



Ok, I missed this one before and listened to it just now... very nice one indeed!
Much much better than the previous Berlin Strings ostinatos posted here.


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## robgb (Feb 10, 2017)

Allegro said:


> How about something like this?



Much better.


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## ghandizilla (Feb 10, 2017)

I really like the sharpness of CineStrings spiccato, though it's less flexible than CSS, it has a tone that suits well to "grandiose" tracks (and has *a heck* of dynamic layers). I think we will soon hear again a lot from CineStrings with the upcoming adaptive legato update.


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## bigcat1969 (Feb 10, 2017)

Thanks for your thoughts guys. Not what I wanted to hear, but good to know. I wonder if I screwed up as I edited the shorts to make them tighter and remove some anomalies before I made the instruments? Maybe I should have left them be? Anyway I'll do a Kontakt version with XFade eventually and maybe that will help.


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## R. Soul (Feb 11, 2017)

Polarity said:


> I listened to all: among the naked out of the box tests here my favourite is CSS spiccato.
> Glad I bought CSS instead of SSS during Black Friday sales.
> It's a matter of tastes of course. Usually I like the ostinatos to be detailed, gritty, relentless, accurate and not dull.
> 
> ...


I took you up on the challenge 
I must admit I've never even looked into the Slam patches and double tracking.
This is a new version - without reverb this time. Bass patch does have an EQ cut as it tends to get a bit boomy, so not 100% straight out of the box, but pretty close.
It does actually sound quite slamming I think.


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## rottoy (Feb 11, 2017)

Only going slightly off topic here, but the ostinato passages in this piece surely is LASS?


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## JoeBarlow (Feb 11, 2017)

maxime77 said:


> CineStrings (processed):



Can we get the Cinestrings example in the main SC playlist swapped for this one? When I put the MIDI on my Cinestrings it sounds far more like this than the previous example (I feel like maybe the staccato articulations were being used?).


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## kavinsky (Feb 11, 2017)

JoeBarlow said:


> When I put the MIDI on my Cinestrings it sounds far more like this than the previous example (I feel like maybe the staccato articulations were being used?).


Agreed
Cinestrings is a really good contender in my view. It has its own voice
btw its #2 in my comparison



I think its time to share which is which since nobody really cares ha

#1 NI SS, (to me the clear loser).
#2 Cinestrings
#3 LASS + a touch of Hall reverb
#4 Berlin Exposed Spicc
#4 Berlin Spicc
#6 SSS
#7 Adagio Tapped Spicc
#8 Adagio Feather Spicc
#9 Adagietto Sections
#10 Albion ONE
#11 Cinematic Strings 2
#12 Albion Legacy + Albion III
#13 Symphobia


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## ctsai89 (Feb 11, 2017)

kavinsky said:


> Agreed
> Cinestrings is a really good contender in my view. It has its own voice
> btw its #2 in my comparison
> 
> ...




berlin sounds really good imho


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## novaburst (Feb 11, 2017)

R. Soul said:


> CSS does sound very nice.
> 
> I don't have any new-ish libraries but just in case anyone is interested, here it is using LASS Lite.




Great comparisons, really love the individual comparison post, esp this


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## J.f.brown 3 (Feb 16, 2017)

Man, I have about 13 string libraries. I should do something of a comparison with them lol!


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## Consona (Feb 16, 2017)

J.f.brown 3 said:


> Man, I have about 13 string libraries. I should do something of a comparison with them lol!


13?!


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## novaburst (Feb 16, 2017)

J.f.brown 3 said:


> Man, I have about 13 string libraries. I should do something of a comparison with them lol!



Well sorry but I have 14 string library's
But not thinking of a comparison but yer take that................... oh yer....................... and that's not including my full orchestral library's  . Bring it on.


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## Parsifal666 (Feb 16, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Well sorry but I have 14 string library's
> .



Me too. It's our secret Kult of the Multitudious Sample Library...buy just one more and you can join us! YES!


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## novaburst (Feb 16, 2017)

Parsifal666 said:


> Me too. It's our secret Kult of the Multitudious Sample Library...buy just one more and you can join us! YES!



I feel the thirst I feel the thirst give me give me...........


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## Consona (Feb 16, 2017)

Great, I'm 11 libraries away if you count Leogria as a string library.


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## sazema (Feb 16, 2017)

This is quite good. Now, I just need to prepare midi file and send someone with HS or LASS to rip into wave 
Hm... great idea is online service, send midi get wave, choose library from drop-down menu.


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## muk (Feb 17, 2017)

For a change I am at two (2) string libraries (one chamber size, one symphonic), and I have yet to encounter a situation where my not achieving a result was because of the string libraries I own (or don't own). It's more likely that my midi programming skills are letting me down than my palette of tools. Choose your libraries wisely, and then learn to use them well.


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## markleake (Feb 17, 2017)

desert said:


> Sibelius 5 sound better than that :/





bigcat1969 said:


> If you will forgive another VSCO2 Community attempt with the more correct octaves... First totally dry, second with a bit of reverb that's included in the VST. Note these are the VST versions, SFZ or Kontakt might sound different.



The problem with the violin spiccato articulation in VSCO2 is they are more like staccatos -- way too long and not agile enough to do this. The other strings (violas, cello, bass) have much better/shorter spiccato. So I used the Time Machine patches with the violins to shorten them a lot. It gives a much better & cleaner result. I also touched the cellos up a bit the same way (although not as aggressively) as at higher velocities they have a similar problem.

I think this rendering is much better...

This uses just a smallish amount of Spaces reverb (Burbank Scoring Stage, 2.0s) rather than the supplied Kontakt reverb, so is kept fairly dry.

It isn't my first choice for this, but it does pretty well I think. Probably could do with some EQing.


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## curry36 (Jan 24, 2021)

calebfaith said:


> Yes good idea! Here's a link to the MIDI + a Reaper project file with the MIDI: http://calebfaith.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Sample-Library-Comparison-1.zip


I know years have passed but could you reupload the MIDI file? :D


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## calebfaith (Jan 31, 2021)

curry36 said:


> I know years have passed but could you reupload the MIDI file? :D


@curry36 you should find it attached. I'm pretty sure this is the right one, it was a while ago


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## curry36 (Feb 1, 2021)

calebfaith said:


> @curry36 you should find it attached. I'm pretty sure this is the right one, it was a while ago


Thank you a lot!!


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