# Sibelius Help



## RiffWraith (Feb 20, 2014)

Hi all. Just started working with the trial of S7, and was hoping someone could help me out a bit here. I posted this on www.sibeliusforum.com, but there doesn't seem to be too much action over there, and as I cant post on the official forum, I figured I'd try here.

When I import a .mid file to S7 that has been created in Cubase, the staves are out of order. They are in proper order in Cubase (Woods, Brass, Perc, Str) and if I re-import that .mid file back into Cubase, the order is correct. But not in S7. I found how to correct this - by going to the Instr Panel, and on the right, moving staves up and down. But I was hoping someone could tell me why this is happening, and how to prevent it so I dont have to do this extra work.

Some staves have clefs, and others do not. Found out how to add/change the clef, but again - was hoping to not have to do this extra work.

The tempo in Cubase is set to 70bpm. Why is Sibelius giving me 70.000069? Probably a non-issue; more than curiousity than anything.

Some of the notes are appearing as potential percussion, which makes no sense. See below for ex. Best way to handle this?

Thanks in advance.


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## windshore (Feb 20, 2014)

You have a few things going on.
When you open a midi file in Sib an options dialogue comes up. There are 2 tabs. Go through each of the parameters... one of which is something like keep same track order.

Anything that comes in on Midi Channel 10 will be treated as percussion.

Depending on how they come in and how they were named in Cubase, Sib will either recognize a name like "trumpet" or won't. You'll have to add trumpet as a new instrument if it doesn't then triple click the messed-up part and copy and past to the new "trumpet". It's worth doing because then the transposition will be right in the part and the sound will playback correctly.


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## The Darris (Feb 20, 2014)

If Windshore's advice doesn't work then it is honestly a software compatibility issue. Just to clarify, are you using a 7 demo or 7.5? Also, I highly encourage you, if you are going to buy it, to get it through Sweetwater.com. They do offer an educational discount but they also offer free tech support. Through their own private secure network, they can control your software remotely and check settings and show you how to fix something like this issue, right in front of you. The best part is that it is FREE!!. 

To be completely honest though, I never export a DAW session into Sibelius, I write it all out fresh. Sure, it takes longer but I take my time to make sure it is right with no weirdness to it.


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## pkm (Feb 20, 2014)

Doesn't help with the order of staves or the tempo, but what I like to do is create a new blank project, set up with the wizard with all the staves I will need, then copy/paste the parts from a second project created from the MIDI file. It always ends up being cleaner that way, and the format of the staff (clef, transposition, note heads, etc.) will be correct.


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## bryla (Feb 21, 2014)

Hi Jeff,

Normally this is an import problem as Mark says. I can't remember which, but there is a drop down menu in the import dialogue that lets you choose another MIDI protocol. This usually helps me out.


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## RiffWraith (Feb 21, 2014)

Hey guys - thanks.

Ok, so I see what is happening.

Instruments > Keep track order needs to be checked. BUT - the first system consists only of data that actually exists.. ie - if there are only two instruments for the first 8 bars, then only those two staves will get created; there are no blank staves for the first 8 bars. This is weird. Finale (which I do not like and am trying to get away from) does not do this.

Second thing is... "new blank project" seems to work. I select orch so I have all the staves, then I can c&p from the other project. I found that a 3x-click will select all staves throughout the score - cool. So that can work for me, however - look at the 2nd V Spic staff I have on my first post. If I c&p that from the other project, it will look the same. How do I get the staff to NOT look like that, but look like it should?

Thanks again.


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## Daryl (Feb 21, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Fri Feb 21 said:


> Instruments > Keep track order needs to be checked. BUT - the first system consists only of data that actually exists.. ie - if there are only two instruments for the first 8 bars, then only those two staves will get created; there are no blank staves for the first 8 bars. This is weird. Finale (which I do not like and am trying to get away from) does not do this.


There are some blank staves. It's just that they are hidden. Go to the Layout menu and you can show hidden staves for any portion of th score that you select. You can also choose which staves to show.



RiffWraith @ Fri Feb 21 said:


> ... look at the 2nd V Spic staff I have on my first post. If I c&p that from the other project, it will look the same. How do I get the staff to NOT look like that, but look like it should?
> 
> Thanks again.


Don't export the MIDI file from Cubase with anything on channel 10.

D


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## windshore (Feb 21, 2014)

On the import dialog box there's a check box for "Hide empty staves" you had it checked when you imported…. go through all those options carefully before you hit OK.

To correct the note heads: Triple click the staff and hit (on Mac) Option/ Shift/ Zero


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## RiffWraith (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks again guys.

Ok, getting somewhere.

*Hide Empty Staves *- yep, that does it. Now, the score (systems) look correct. Available from the _Open MIDI File_ dial box when you initially try and import the .mid file, as Mark pointed out. I saw that, but as no staves were hidden throughout (only the beginning), I didn't think that was it.

Ch 10 - hmmmmm. Yes, anything set to ch 10 will result in a full (or partial, which I really dont get) "perc" staff. But I found this - that's only when *MIDI File Uses this Sound Set: > General MIDI * is selected. With that box unticked, the staves are not perc. 

So, here is the next issue - clef. I export a clarinet track, and Sib is showing bass clef. Which is wrong, as Clarinets are written in treble clef. I know how to change the clef (easy), but I'd like to not have to do that if I can. How does Sib decide what clef it will make the staff? Any way to dictate that a certain MIDI track should be a certain clef?


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Sat Feb 22 said:


> So, here is the next issue - clef. I export a clarinet track, and Sib is showing bass clef. Which is wrong, as Clarinets are written in treble clef. I know how to change the clef (easy), but I'd like to not have to do that if I can. How does Sib decide what clef it will make the staff? Any way to dictate that a certain MIDI track should be a certain clef?


A Clarinet is a transposing instrument, so you need to change the Instrument on the stave. Plus if you want it to play back with anything other than some dodgy Piano, this would be necessary. A Clef change on its own isn't enough. Likewise just changing noteheads is not enough for a proper score.

D


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## RiffWraith (Feb 22, 2014)

Daryl @ Sat Feb 22 said:


> A Clarinet is a transposing instrument, so you need to change the Instrument on the stave.



Not sure I get you. I know it's a transposing instr., but how do I get the staff to be treble clef? Same way I need Violas to be alto clef instead of bass clef.


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## Daryl (Feb 22, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Sat Feb 22 said:


> Daryl @ Sat Feb 22 said:
> 
> 
> > A Clarinet is a transposing instrument, so you need to change the Instrument on the stave.
> ...


If you just change the clef, when you print the parts out, the instrument won't have been transposed, so your Clarinets will be either a tone or a minor 3rd out from the rest of the orchestra. You need an Instrument change.

D


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## RiffWraith (Feb 22, 2014)

Hey Daryl, thanks for trying to help.

This isn't about transposing instruments, and whether or not the note values are correct. It's about the clef.

Have a look:

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/S7-1.mp4

Why is the clarinet showing bass clef, and why is the viola showing bass clef? The thing I want to understand is how to get the instruments in their proper clefs, without having to change all of the wrong ones manually?


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## Daryl (Feb 23, 2014)

Jeff, I know what you're asking, but you're looking for a quick fix that doesn't exist. I don't really know how you expect Sibelius to know what Clef you want. I think it can read certain instrument names (not the ones you've chosen), but I wouldn't swear to that either.

If you really don't want to do the job as I suggest it should be done, the best way is to export an XML file and open that. You'll still have to do some work though. :wink: 

D


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## ed buller (Feb 23, 2014)

RiffWraith @ Sat Feb 22 said:


> The thing I want to understand is how to get the instruments in their proper clefs, without having to change all of the wrong ones manually?



i'm afraid you can't. There is no parameter in transferring midi files into Sibelius to decide on a clef. A clef is a text object....nothing to do with midi. It's a bit like asking Sibelius to analyse your score whilst importing it and adding "grandly" or "langsam und scmachtend".........beyond it's remit i'm afraid.

it is always going to be a bit of a faff. What i do is create the correct instruments ( i key on a mac ) into the score once Sibelius opens your midi file. Then i just double click and paste the midi instruments on the right staves i have just created. then i delete the midi staves. takes ten minutes but it's all neat and tidy and when you ask Sibelius to create a bass clarinet or french horn it will ask for options ( clef , key etc )


hope that helps


e


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## windshore (Feb 23, 2014)

Jeff, 
The clef issue was already addressed in this thread. Sib tries it's best to figure out what instrument is what, but when it is wrong, you need to ADD a new instrument, which you already know how to do. Once it's in your score, triple click the old stave hit Command / X then paste to the first bar of the new instrument.

This only takes a couple of seconds and will give you the write transposition and "out of range" warnings".

In general, you should try using the "search" box in the upper right corner of the interface to look for specific commands. If you can't find what you're looking for there, the PDF Manual is searchable. I know we all would rather cut off our left arm than use a manual, but if you're serious about using the program, it's at least doing searches for specific subjects....


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## RiffWraith (Feb 23, 2014)

Ok, so clef recognition is not something the app can do. Got it - thanks for the help


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## Pietro (Feb 28, 2014)

To be honest, the fastest way of importing from Cubase to Sibelius, that I found, is creating a project with proper instrument set in Sibelius first, then opening a midi file from Cubase and just copy-pasting everything to that project.

Just need to make sure you have the track order as in the score, and then it's almost like select all and paste into the Sibelius score. Faster than having to do all the correction, adding title, composer etc. Everything should be in place, but still requires a lot of work either way.

The tempo issue, has been bugging me for a while now. It seems that Cubase exports tempo this way sometimes. And it imports into Pro Tools the same way too. Don't know how to fix it.

- Piotr


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## Wallander (Feb 28, 2014)

As most people have mentioned here, you can probably not rely on the MIDI import to make the right choice of instrument. 

With multiple staff instruments (e.g. piano) its probably easiest to create new staves and copy into those. Percussion often needs special treatment, even when imported from MusicXML. For most other instruments its usually enough to triple click to select the whole staff and do an "instrument change". 

*You need to do this, not just because of the clef, but also to get the right transposition, sound ID assignment, playable note range (notes outside playable range are shown in red) and instrument name on all pages in the score. These are stored within the instrument definitions in Sibelius. *

Regarding the BPM issue, this is a curious side effect of how MIDI files store tempo. For some historical reason, the MIDI format doesn't store "beats per minute" but it stores "minutes per beat". In this case it stores not "70", as you might expect, but it stores 1 divided by 70 which is 0.014285714285714... 

Problem is, you're using 70 BPM, and 1/70 isn't a nice and even number. MIDI files can only store a certain number of decimals, so it will chop some of the decimals off. Whatever number is in the MIDI file, when it's converted back to BPM from the MIDI's format it becomes 70.000069 instead of exactly 70. 

Some BPM values divide nicely, so you won't have this problem with for example 50 BPM, 80 BPM, 100 BPM or 160 BPM, as those can be stored exactly with the MIDI format. 

However, one could argue that the tempo could be rounded to some nice-looking value instead when importing from MIDI. But maybe they wanted it _exact_. 

/\~O After all, 70.000069 is a tad faster. About 1 beat per 10 days.


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