# Considering iMac with Mac Mini slave - good idea?



## Luke W (Dec 10, 2013)

I currently use a Mac Mini 2.3ghz i5 maxed out to 16gb RAM. Great for Finale work but straining to run Logic 9 with new Cinestrings/Cinebrass libraries (which live on external 7200rpm firewire drive).

Would a iMac 3.4ghz i7 with 32gb RAM be a good move? I could slave the Mac Mini and run VEP there. I have an iMac in my sights that I could get for about 2k.

Or would an SSD external drive be a more economical solution that would get me running smoothly? Would a used Mac Pro be a better way to go?

Advice?


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## AC986 (Dec 10, 2013)

Luke W @ Tue Dec 10 said:


> I currently use a Mac Mini 2.3ghz i5 maxed out to 16gb RAM. Great for Finale work but straining to run Logic 9 with new Cinestrings/Cinebrass libraries (which live on external 7200rpm firewire drive).
> 
> Would a iMac 3.4ghz i7 with 32gb RAM be a good move? I could slave the Mac Mini and run VEP there. I have an iMac in my sights that I could get for about 2k.
> 
> ...



Great idea. However can I strongly advise you check these threads out first regarding iMac audio interface serious problems.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/54 ... 0&tstart=0


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... imacs.html


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## Giant_Shadow (Dec 10, 2013)

I'm using a 2011 Imac quad master (on dual monitors) and last years Mac Mini Quad i7 slave (with screen share) linked together with VEP5. Working pretty good here with logic X. No Mavericks yet. Max your ram.

Have heard the newer build Imacs have audio issues, not sure if its the Fusion drives,or something else.


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## AC986 (Dec 10, 2013)

Giant_Shadow @ Tue Dec 10 said:


> Have heard the newer build Imacs have audio issues, not sure if its the Fusion drives,or something else.



2011 iMacs have Firewire. That's the trouble. No one knows what the cause is. Could be the FD but more likely looks like a combination of things. You can't really buy one of these machines and do music or audio at the moment. You'll be sending it back.


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## dinerdog (Dec 10, 2013)

I am so ready to get one of those iMacs and have read through most of the posts and it does indeed seem to almost certainly be the Fusion Drive. The way it moves data around according to usage. Seems audio pushes the envelope in hard ways. That was the main common denominator. The other high up additional factor was using some USB2 devices that were not high enough spec in their USB3 compatibility.

The Fusion Drive idea always seemed like an interim format anyway, neither this nor that. Hope it gets a definitive resolution soon.


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## Giant_Shadow (Dec 10, 2013)

That machine works fine for me, using Firewire to a UA Apollo for audio I/O.

I have a mixture SSD's and USB drives for samples, recording, and backup.

My point was if you look for a slightly older model you might be better off right now as long as you do not need thunderbolt, etc.




adriancook @ Tue Dec 10 said:


> Giant_Shadow @ Tue Dec 10 said:
> 
> 
> > Have heard the newer build Imacs have audio issues, not sure if its the Fusion drives,or something else.
> ...


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## AC986 (Dec 10, 2013)

Its an idea but it strikes me as a retro step. Mind you, if they can't sort this major problem out then I would definitely look at the option. They may well bring out another iMac model before they solve this issue. By that time I will have switched to a PC setup though.


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## Luke W (Dec 10, 2013)

I could go with a second 16gb Mini, maybe with an internal SSD for about $1k. But my research here leads me to think that getting a machine with higher RAM capacity is the real key. Would slaving one 16gb Mini to another be a legimate route to improving my setup? Or is that 16gb ceiling going to continue to be an issue, no matter have many slaves I link up?


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## 5Lives (Dec 10, 2013)

I think most of the issues are due to the Fusion Drive.

I'm moving cross-country and am thinking of ditching my 2009 Mac Pro and going with the option presented here. Sounds nice and small, but powerful.


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## Stephen Baysted (Dec 11, 2013)

I've been trialling a i7 mini with 16gb ram here for a few months as a slave to replace a few older PC slaves. It's absolutely brilliant, and could easily replace 3 of my PC slaves. The key, IMO, is SSD over thunderbolt - streams the most demanding sample libs flawlessly, and of course because the streaming is so fast you can purge all samples in kontakt and load up huge templates. 

This is one of the reasons why I think the new Mac Pro will be a game changer for us.


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## AC986 (Dec 11, 2013)

Stephen Baysted @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> This is one of the reasons why I think the new Mac Pro will be a game changer for us.



How will you arrange the audio interface on one of those? What if it's not the Fusion Drive alone and is linked somewhere else?


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## Luke W (Dec 11, 2013)

Would moving my samples from a 7200 rpm firewire drive to a thunderbolt SSD solve the strain on my Mac Mini?


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## Stephen Baysted (Dec 11, 2013)

Luke W @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> Would moving my samples from a 7200 rpm firewire drive to a thunderbolt SSD solve the strain on my Mac Mini?



Yep.


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## Stephen Baysted (Dec 11, 2013)

adriancook @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> Stephen Baysted @ Wed Dec 11 said:
> 
> 
> > This is one of the reasons why I think the new Mac Pro will be a game changer for us.
> ...




*if* I keep my 3 x MOTU 2408s, an external chassis via thunderbolt. More likely I'll get a new interface (Apollo, UFX etc.). I'm not using my slaves as I once did over 72 channels of ADAT, so I just don't need the inputs into the DAW any more.

Times are changing.


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## doubleattack (Dec 12, 2013)

Stephen Baysted @ Wed 11 Dec said:


> Luke W @ Wed Dec 11 said:
> 
> 
> > Would moving my samples from a 7200 rpm firewire drive to a thunderbolt SSD solve the strain on my Mac Mini?
> ...



Stephen, may I ask you which brand of ssd do you use? 
I'd like to buy a thunderbolt ssd for my MBP too, but I've read, some users have problems with noise, coming from the cool system (specially LaCie 512 GB ssd).

Frank


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## dinerdog (Dec 12, 2013)

adriancook - you may be right. If you look towards the end of the Gearslutz link, the guy from Apogee doesn't think it's the Fusion Drive, he's thinking it's a USB issue with the Haswell chips in 2013 models.

Bottom of the page:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... acs-9.html

If true, that's even more of a drag. At least if your audio interface is USB. Still no MacPro to compare anything with either.


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## Ryan Scully (Dec 12, 2013)

Stephen Baysted @ Wed Dec 11 said:


> I've been trialling a i7 mini with 16gb ram here for a few months as a slave to replace a few older PC slaves. It's absolutely brilliant, and could easily replace 3 of my PC slaves. The key, IMO, is SSD over thunderbolt - streams the most demanding sample libs flawlessly, and of course because the streaming is so fast you can purge all samples in kontakt and load up huge templates.
> 
> This is one of the reasons why I think the new Mac Pro will be a game changer for us.



I have been looking into this(Mac mini slave) for a long time but never considered the external SSD via thunderbolt - great to know!


Ryan


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## doubleattack (Dec 12, 2013)

Ryan Scully @ Thu 12 Dec said:


> Stephen Baysted @ Wed Dec 11 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been trialling a i7 mini with 16gb ram here for a few months as a slave to replace a few older PC slaves. It's absolutely brilliant, and could easily replace 3 of my PC slaves. The key, IMO, is SSD over thunderbolt - streams the most demanding sample libs flawlessly, and of course because the streaming is so fast you can purge all samples in kontakt and load up huge templates.
> ...



I've been considering this for quite a while; but it's quite expensive and I've been not sure if the increase of performance would be worth the price…


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## AC986 (Dec 12, 2013)

dinerdog @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> adriancook - you may be right. If you look towards the end of the Gearslutz link, the guy from Apogee doesn't think it's the Fusion Drive, he's thinking it's a USB issue with the Haswell chips in 2013 models.
> 
> Bottom of the page:
> 
> ...



I've been trying to tell people here about this issue for over a month at least. Anyone buying a Mac while the audio interface issue goes on and on would be MAD. Any new Mac.

What made me laugh, was someone on gearslutz made the point I've tried to make about the new MacPros yesterday.

It's a massive issue and they haven't even got close to fixing it. 

And also it's not just a USB thing. Firewire to Thunderbolt adaptor doesn't work either.


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## Luke W (Dec 12, 2013)

@adrian

-thanks so much for alerting me to this issue! I almost made a huge mistake on investing in an iMac before this audio problem has been fixed.

I'm now pricing an external SSD to add to my Mac Mini as the next improvement on my setup.


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## playz123 (Dec 12, 2013)

adriancook @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> And also it's not just a USB thing. Firewire to Thunderbolt adaptor doesn't work either.



Are you by chance referring to Apple's Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter instead??? The adapter that plugs into a TB port and then allows you to connect a Firewire device? I was under the impression that one could not do the reverse and, as you stated, go from Firewire to TB....at least that is what I was told and have read.


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## AC986 (Dec 12, 2013)

Luke W @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> @adrian
> 
> -thanks so much for alerting me to this issue! I almost made a huge mistake on investing in an iMac before this audio problem has been fixed.
> 
> I'm now pricing an external SSD to add to my Mac Mini as the next improvement on my setup.



When they get the whole thing to work Luke, I think it will be a hell of a good system. The Mac Mini idea sounds like a good plan. Just be aware of the audio issue. Apogee will be really working on this I'm sure. But it's not just Apogee.


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## AC986 (Dec 12, 2013)

playz123 @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> adriancook @ Thu Dec 12 said:
> 
> 
> > And also it's not just a USB thing. Firewire to Thunderbolt adaptor doesn't work either.
> ...



Frank on my Apogee Ensemble I did exactly as was stated on the Help section of the Apogee website. Connected the correct Firewire lead to the Firewire/Thunderbolt adaptor and downloaded the software update for Mavericks from Apogee too. It worked for about 2 minutes tops and then garbled mess. Same for everyone else by the sound of it. Duets, Symphonies etc.

I say again. Anyone buying a new MacPro in a few days time should really look into this issue just in case. May well not be a problem. Don't know. Not an expert.


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## dinerdog (Dec 12, 2013)

I have one simple question: Is there anyone here using an iMac (Late 2013) with a Haswell chip in it? And are you having any audio problems. Fusion Drive? SSD?

This is most disappointed I've been with Apple. As someone said on another thread: "WTF were the beta testers doing?" Maybe they were playing with Logic and Garageband, but through the built in speakers.

It's amazing to me that I want a new Mac and don't trust these new models.


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## AC986 (Dec 12, 2013)

dinerdog @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> It's amazing to me that I want a new Mac and don't trust these new models.



Still here  

Well exactly my point. You can't at the moment. But what we can do is wait for a definitive statement from Apple and audio unit manufacturers. 

Apple were great. I sent back two iMacs and they reacted really professionally. The American lady I got on the phone was more than 1st class. No problems there.

It was the amount of time it took going to the Apple store back and forth that got me down. Phone calls. Looking up stuff on the net. If it hadn't been for a guy here pointing me to another forum I would have been really stuck and not known what to do.


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## playz123 (Dec 12, 2013)

adriancook @ Thu Dec 12 said:


> playz123 @ Thu Dec 12 said:
> 
> 
> > adriancook @ Thu Dec 12 said:
> ...



 Hope you didn't misunderstand....I was not disagreeing there's a problem or whatever, but simply asking about the adapter itself. If you plugged your device into the firewire end of an adapter which then plugged into the TB port of the computer, then what I was suggesting is correct, The adapter would be described correctly as "TB to Firewire". It's the path OUT of the computer that is used for naming purposes, not the path IN. The wording is indeed important here because as far as I know there is no Firewire to Thunderbird adapter available nor is it possible. Is my point/question any clearer now?? Cheers.


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## AC986 (Dec 12, 2013)

Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter


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## AC986 (Dec 16, 2013)

Quick heads up from RME.

http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=18666


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 16, 2013)

I think you want a PC slave with VE Pro 5.


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## AC986 (Dec 16, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Mon Dec 16 said:


> I think you want a PC slave with VE Pro 5.



No I don't want that at all.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 16, 2013)

adriancook @ Mon Dec 16 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Mon Dec 16 said:
> 
> 
> > I think you want a PC slave with VE Pro 5.
> ...



I meant the OP but for running big sample libraries and getting bang for the buck, it is the way to go that I recommend to everyone. It was one of the best decisionsI have ever made and if I were to be fired by EW with all my licenses revoked, I would still do it again for big Kontakt libraries.


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## Luke W (Dec 16, 2013)

@ Jay

A PC slave is a valid option. But since my current machine is a 2011 Mac Mini, my long-term plan would be to eventually upgrade to a Mac that can hold 32gb of ram and make the Mini the slave.

If I had a brand new Mac, the PC slave idea might make more sense - I can see the advantages.


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## EastWest Lurker (Dec 16, 2013)

Luke W @ Mon Dec 16 said:


> @ Jay
> 
> A PC slave is a valid option. But since my current machine is a 2011 Mac Mini, my long-term plan would be to eventually upgrade to a Mac that can hold 32gb of ram and make the Mini the slave.
> 
> If I had a brand new Mac, the PC slave idea might make more sense - I can see the advantages.



I understand, but think of it this way perhaps: get the PC slave, which solves your immediate problems and over time, Apple sorts out these annoying issues and you have a little more dough in your pocket and THEN upgrade the Mac you want/can afford., and still have the PC slave.

I too am running a 2011 (I wish I had waited 6 months to get USB 3 though) with 16 GB and a PC slave with 24 GB, both i7s. Total cost was app.$2850 and together, it is pretty beastly.


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## Luke W (Dec 16, 2013)

That is another good avenue. I'll add it to the list of possible ways forward. Thanks Jay!


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