# Epic Fantasy Music (my most complex work so far)



## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 24, 2020)

Hi everyone!

Really excited about these 4 tracks. I've never written in that style before and it went almost as well as I dreamed it initially.
Written as part of the album "Fable" by Cezame Trailers.

(posting the playlist didn't work, sorry - I hate soundcloud!!)






The first I completed was "Living The Magic" so it is particularly special for me. I loved writing these tracks - really reawakened a magic-loving inner kid in some way and a great break from the more dark/serious tracks I'm usually writing.

They are definitely a musical milestone for me as being the most complex orchestrations I've done so far and mockup wise I'm also quite happy with them.

Would love to know what you think, also about the mixing, which elicited some criticism. Mastering was done by Gabriel Saban which definitely improved some problematic areas. 

Thank you for checking in and I hope things are going as well as possible on your end!


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## Soundlex (Mar 24, 2020)

Very nice, even the mix!
What are the spicc you used at the beginning of "This is our Kingdom", they sound lovely...
Sounds a little bit like the measured trem of CSS but I'm not sure...


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## José Herring (Mar 24, 2020)

Some very nice writing. 

One critique though. The string sound is a little smallish for the size of the rest of the ensemble. I'm not sure exactly why that is. But, it sounds like a small string ensemble paired with full brass and large percussion.

Once I took a gig a gig recording a trailer as part of the orchestra. I was shocked to find out that they wrote two string ensembles. Once we recorded everything, we cleared the stage and the composers overdubbed an additional string sections playing entirely different parts. It turned into a trailer cue when previously it had been a good film cue. So maybe that is it. "Traditional" trailers have an exaggerated string section.

Below is the link that we recorded. Funny thing now that I listen back to it. I realized that these days you could just as easily get this sound and perhaps even better just from your computer. This was recorded at 20th century Fox scoring stage with full orchestra with additional string and choir overdubs.


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## Bluemount Score (Mar 24, 2020)

I'm currently just listening to This is Our Kingdom, 1:48, I love that!


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## Bluemount Score (Mar 24, 2020)

I've listened to all of them. Really really cool. I probably say so because I listen to this type of music in general quite a lot. My favorite was the second half of This Is Our Kingdom.
Also good job regarding mixing! Here and there I thought the sub was a little overwhelming but I liked exactly that in other places. In Living The Magic, I thought that the... damn I just forget the english word for it... the _bright bell not glockenspiel children instrument kind of thing _that plays the melody was a little too dry / upfront and could benefit of more reverb, I think. This bright stuff often needs more of that in general.
Great stuff!!


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## Robert_G (Mar 24, 2020)

Sounds fantastic, but the thing is....they all sound the same to me. Even the graphic on the SoundCloud shows all 4 are almost uniform. You could have combined these 4 into 1 piece and it would have been fine....and a really great piece too. For being 4 separate pieces though...it needs more distinction between them. With that said....they do sound very good.


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## Stringtree (Mar 24, 2020)

Oh, you like your choirs. 

I'm just a schlub; I don't know anything. I just listen to a lot of real orchestral music for the pleasure of it. I did listen to all the pieces, and I've liked and commented before. You look way too young to be doing stuff that is this polished. I offer my thoughts as a music lover and listener.

Your use of woodwinds is really nice. You also contrast shimmery bell things with big sick brass falls. Large brass sections sometimes seem oddly bass-deficient. But you handle colors very well.

I like the breaks that you provide, like the music-boxy "ping-ping" between the first and second sections of "Living the Magic." These breaks, sonically as well as can be seen in the waveform depictions, are at sort of regular intervals in each of the pieces.

Your phrasing is coherent and sounds like speech; melodies are emotionally satisfying. 

"Key to the Spirit World," your last entry, starts with a gorgeous frenetic interplay of strings, but then I found myself in a Poirot mystery. I was in an airplane disaster movie, but then I was on a train watching a detective trim his mustache. 

Your work here is fantastic, and I admire what you've put forward. I have no doubt it will be gobbled up by producers who want workable material for their projects. 

I do have a question: is sparser and less thunderous material out of the question when shopping stuff around? Asking for a friend. 

I admire your talents. Thanks for sharing these!

Greg


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## CGR (Mar 24, 2020)

DarkestShadow said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> Really excited about these 4 tracks. I've never written in that style before and it went almost as well as I dreamed it initially.
> Written as part of the album "Fable" by Cezame Trailers.
> ...



Excellent work, with some well paced dynamics and variation of instrumentation which kept my interest (a lot of other "trailer" music for me just sounds too derivative and repetitive). Really enjoyed "Dreams Come Alive". The piano sits really well - what did you use? (if you don't mind sharing).


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## Christopher Rocky (Mar 24, 2020)

Brilliant work mate, I really enjoy your compositions as a whole, only feedback is the strings seem to get lost in the mix when its so massive, was that deliberate though?
if you would indulge me, what brass lib is that? and choirs?
also curios about how long it would take to you from start to finish for one track? it sounds like a lot of time and care 
Really loved it i'll definitely be checking out your other works! well done!!


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 25, 2020)

Many thanks to everyone for listening and commenting! 
Now I have lots to respond to having been offline for some time ha! 


Soundlex said:


> Very nice, even the mix!
> What are the spicc you used at the beginning of "This is our Kingdom", they sound lovely...
> Sounds a little bit like the measured trem of CSS but I'm not sure...


Thanks! :D 
The meas trems are a combo of several different libraries and dedicated processing to each. From the top of my head it's Hollywood Strings meas trems (with Tantra to help tightening), Fluid Shorts, Adagio Violins and perhaps CSS too... but I'm not sure, will check the project later. Pretty crazy eh? 


josejherring said:


> Some very nice writing.
> 
> One critique though. The string sound is a little smallish for the size of the rest of the ensemble. I'm not sure exactly why that is. But, it sounds like a small string ensemble paired with full brass and large percussion.
> 
> ...



Thanks Josej! 

Funnily the strings are actually oversized too for the most part... probably about 20-30 virtual players just for the violins in most parts. But I layered in solos from CSSS quite a lot and the processing is not ideal. Not happy with the EQ I did on the strings, makes them sound 'weaker' and thus also less full.


Bluemount Score said:


> I've listened to all of them. Really really cool. I probably say so because I listen to this type of music in general quite a lot. My favorite was the second half of This Is Our Kingdom.
> Also good job regarding mixing! Here and there I thought the sub was a little overwhelming but I liked exactly that in other places. In Living The Magic, I thought that the... damn I just forget the english word for it... the _bright bell not glockenspiel children instrument kind of thing _that plays the melody was a little too dry / upfront and could benefit of more reverb, I think. This bright stuff often needs more of that in general.
> Great stuff!!


Thank you!
It's a music box.  Actually I kept it dry very consciously to provide a contrast to the very far and large sound to come later on with the full orch and choirs.


Robert_G said:


> Sounds fantastic, but the thing is....they all sound the same to me. Even the graphic on the SoundCloud shows all 4 are almost uniform. You could have combined these 4 into 1 piece and it would have been fine....and a really great piece too. For being 4 separate pieces though...it needs more distinction between them. With that said....they do sound very good.


Thank you! 
I can't really see that at all though... they sound more distinct to me than a lot of other fantasy music or closer to other music than among each other. But I think there is some 'necessary' repetitiveness with fantasy music in general. It's like with pirate type music or typical adventure scores... it just sounds kinda same-ish usually! 


Stringtree said:


> Oh, you like your choirs.
> 
> I'm just a schlub; I don't know anything. I just listen to a lot of real orchestral music for the pleasure of it. I did listen to all the pieces, and I've liked and commented before. You look way too young to be doing stuff that is this polished. I offer my thoughts as a music lover and listener.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the lovely feedback Greg! :D 

I'm absolutely going to also compose more sparse/filmic music and did already here and there. I have a full filmic orchestral album planned and some drama tracks with lots of string writing. 
Actually I like the less epic sections from the pieces I posted the most so I'm looking forward to do more of that! 


CGR said:


> Excellent work, with some well paced dynamics and variation of instrumentation which kept my interest (a lot of other "trailer" music for me just sounds too derivative and repetitive). Really enjoyed "Dreams Come Alive". The piano sits really well - what did you use? (if you don't mind sharing).


Thank you Craig!
The piano is the good old Malmsjö by ArtVista with some cleaning EQ and multi-band. Nothing too drastic though.


ChristopherRock said:


> Brilliant work mate, I really enjoy your compositions as a whole, only feedback is the strings seem to get lost in the mix when its so massive, was that deliberate though?
> if you would indulge me, what brass lib is that? and choirs?
> also curios about how long it would take to you from start to finish for one track? it sounds like a lot of time and care
> Really loved it i'll definitely be checking out your other works! well done!!


Thank you Christopher! 
The brass comes from Hollywood Brass, Metropolis Ark, Cinematic Studio Brass, the Angry Brass freebie by Performance Samples and maybe something else I forgot.. tiny bits from EWSO I guess.
Choir is Oceania, Liberis (for the kids), bit of Silka, the VOTA section from Symphonic Choirs in This Is Your Kingdom (layered with Oceania), a bit of Hollywood Choirs and some vocal layering with Organic Samples Solo Opera (in every piece) and Voices of Rapture Soprano by Soundiron.


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## Bluemount Score (Mar 25, 2020)

DarkestShadow said:


> It's a music box.


Ah yes, I knew it


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 25, 2020)

ChristopherRock said:


> Brilliant work mate, I really enjoy your compositions as a whole, only feedback is the strings seem to get lost in the mix when its so massive, was that deliberate though?
> if you would indulge me, what brass lib is that? and choirs?
> also curios about how long it would take to you from start to finish for one track? it sounds like a lot of time and care
> Really loved it i'll definitely be checking out your other works! well done!!


Oh, forgot the question about time spent... I can't really tell because I had several months for the tracks and worked on them on and off during that time. It take way too long to write!
But Dreams Come Alive was done in about 4-5 days (with the usual procrastination). I know it cuz I started this one 4-5 days before the deadline haha!


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## Vladimir Bulaev (Mar 29, 2020)

Magnificent, beautiful, majestic, amazing, brilliant!
I'm not a big fan of trailer music, because I think it is very homogeneous, monotonous, especially these signature pauses with effects, it seems to me that they are the same for every composer of trailer music. But here and there I hear a particle from the universe of Thomas Bergersen. He is an exception for me And I really like it. 
Thank you for sharing.


DarkestShadow said:


> I'm absolutely going to also compose more sparse/filmic music and did already here and there. I have a full filmic orchestral album planned and some drama tracks with lots of string writing.
> Actually I like the less epic sections from the pieces I posted the most so I'm looking forward to do more of that!


Wow, it's magical. I will look forward to the release of your album.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 29, 2020)

Vladimir Bulaev said:


> Magnificent, beautiful, majestic, amazing, brilliant!
> I'm not a big fan of trailer music, because I think it is very homogeneous, monotonous, especially these signature pauses with effects, it seems to me that they are the same for every composer of trailer music. But here and there I hear a particle from the universe of Thomas Bergersen. He is an exception for me And I really like it.
> Thank you for sharing.
> 
> Wow, it's magical. I will look forward to the release of your album.


Many thanks for the great compliments! :D

Yea, Thomas is my favorite composer, full stop. So no wonder some of it shows, although I'm happy that I'm generally not sounding like him toooo much IMO.  Noone needs a half-ass Thomas if we have the proper one! :D

That album is kind of a long-term side project.. probably won't be complete in under a year but I'm probably posting the one or the other track beforehand.

Thanks again!


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## NathanTiemeyer (Mar 29, 2020)

Bravo! Great compositions and great mixing. What a great listening experience. I would love to learn how you got your low-end to sound powerful and awesome


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 29, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Bravo! Great compositions and great mixing. What a great listening experience. I would love to learn how you got your low-end to sound powerful and awesome


Many thanks! :D

I actually don't hear anything special in the low-end also didn't pay any real attention to it... so I can't say anything about that. I also don't have a sub so maybe I did things I don't even hear haha - or Gabriel Saban while mastering.


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## Kery Michael (Mar 29, 2020)

Really enjoyed these tracks. Thanks for posting, compositionally well done and mixed well.

What did you use for percussion in This Is Our Kingdom?


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## Lionel Schmitt (Mar 30, 2020)

Kery Michael said:


> Really enjoyed these tracks. Thanks for posting, compositionally well done and mixed well.
> 
> What did you use for percussion in This Is Our Kingdom?


Many thanks! :D

The perc is mix of several libraries with a massive amount of processing.
The first hits leading up to the climax were so many libraries that I don't even remember...
The perc throughout the track were 8dio's Epic Toms and a PercX combo coming in later, not sure which patches. Maybe also a bit of 8dio Epic Taikos for depth later on, not sure. And bit of Heavyocity Master Sessions Ensemble Drums in the background, not so prominent.
Everything processed so much that it's quite far away from the sound out of the box.


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## NathanTiemeyer (Mar 31, 2020)

DarkestShadow said:


> Many thanks! :D
> 
> I actually don't hear anything special in the low-end also didn't pay any real attention to it... so I can't say anything about that. I also don't have a sub so maybe I did things I don't even hear haha - or Gabriel Saban while mastering.


You are very welcome! I think I was referring to the definition/clarity of the bass/strings instruments /sub at 0:56 of This Is Our Kingdom. This passage both sonically and musically sounds like something straight out of a JNH score. (I mean that as a comparison and a compliment to your writing btw! :D ) Would you happen to recall which string libraries you used for the bass parts in that track? Both short and sustain? Thanks.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Apr 1, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> You are very welcome! I think I was referring to the definition/clarity of the bass/strings instruments /sub at 0:56 of This Is Our Kingdom. This passage both sonically and musically sounds like something straight out of a JNH score. (I mean that as a comparison and a compliment to your writing btw! :D ) Would you happen to recall which string libraries you used for the bass parts in that track? Both short and sustain? Thanks.


That's a great compliment, thanks again! :D

I don't recall it but I think most of it was due to processing... I remember I used an massively processed Bass Pizzicato patch and probably a basic basses legato - I'm gonna check it out in the session and post later + the processing.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Apr 1, 2020)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> You are very welcome! I think I was referring to the definition/clarity of the bass/strings instruments /sub at 0:56 of This Is Our Kingdom. This passage both sonically and musically sounds like something straight out of a JNH score. (I mean that as a comparison and a compliment to your writing btw! :D ) Would you happen to recall which string libraries you used for the bass parts in that track? Both short and sustain? Thanks.


(edit - video sent via PM)


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