# Kontakt 5.6



## playz123 (Sep 12, 2016)

Really liking the new Kontakt 5.6 interface...much cleaner and very 'slick'. Text is so much easier to read and everything just looks better. So far not even one glitch...I've used it in existing projects, done batch resaves, added libraries etc., and all is well...so far. In the days ahead, I'll certainly report anything negative I find, but so far, so good! I did turn off "Data Tracking" though.
And Native Access has performed without a hitch over the last several days as well as I reloaded (fresh o/s install of El Capitan) nearly 50 NI libraries and effects.


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## Baron Greuner (Sep 12, 2016)

No issues Frank?

What are you running Frank? El Capitan 10.11.6?


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## Fleer (Sep 12, 2016)

Guess you're not addressing this Frank, but I'll chime in. Looking good, crisp and everything loads as it should. Maybe a little bit more glitchy graphics when browsing, probably due to higher resolution. I'm running El Capitan 10.11.6 on a 2.6 i7 MacBook Pro with 16 gig ram and an SSD.


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## synthpunk (Sep 12, 2016)

Just a fyi from the duplicate thread on DAW board. They have eliminated the larger font size despite the protests of there beta testers.


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## Quasar (Sep 12, 2016)

synthpunk said:


> Just a fyi from the duplicate thread on DAW board. They have eliminated the larger font size despite the protests of there beta testers.



I updated right away (Windows 7), and really like the aesthetics of the new UI. Opened several Albion instances and a few other libraries and everything seems to load and play fine here. The font doesn't seem larger (though I never cared about this personally), but is more readable because the contrast between the light font and the black background is deeper, and thus clearer and better IMO.


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## playz123 (Sep 12, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> No issues Frank?
> 
> What are you running Frank? El Capitan 10.11.6?


Latest version of El Capitan, Baron. Have just done a clean install and reloaded everything during the last week on my 2014 Mac Pro. No issues at all so far. One report of scrolling not working well (not sure if Riffwraith has a PC or a Mac), but it works fine for me. Jay mentioned the text could be bigger, but it's a huge improvement on my machine and I no longer have to zoom in to read the words.


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## playz123 (Sep 12, 2016)

Fleer said:


> Guess you're not addressing this Frank, but I'll chime in. Looking good, crisp and everything loads as it should. Maybe a little bit more glitchy graphics when browsing, probably due to higher resolution. I'm running El Capitan 10.11.6 on a 2.6 i7 MacBook Pro with 16 gig ram and an SSD.


Addressing what?? Pleased to chime in and help if I can. I agree, everything looks crisp (good choice of word), and am running OS 10.11.6 on a Mac Pro 2014 (late 2013) with 32 GB RAM with everything on SSDs. Cheers!


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## Fleer (Sep 12, 2016)

You're not the only Frank in town, Frank


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## playz123 (Sep 12, 2016)

Fleer said:


> You're not the only Frank in town, Frank


Thanks Frank!  Is there an echo in here?


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## galactic orange (Sep 12, 2016)




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## fgimian (Sep 12, 2016)

Love the new look, but the font is too small for me :(


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## galactic orange (Sep 12, 2016)

The font is pretty small for me too, especially when looking at the File tab.


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## Baron Greuner (Sep 13, 2016)

So gents, no problems with reading anything on the GUI before I update this thing?


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## galactic orange (Sep 13, 2016)

Are you on Mac or PC? Some people on the N.I. forums were claiming they had some issues after installation. But those issues weren't confirmed so they might have been specific to their setups.


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## Sid Francis (Sep 13, 2016)

font is too small, readable but uncomfortable


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## babylonwaves (Sep 13, 2016)

the inverse contrast make the file browser more readable but removing the option for the bigger font? i don't get this.


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## Reactor.UK (Sep 13, 2016)

I appreciate Kontakt but I don't understand why they have insisted to keep to their design language than that of windows apps in general. As mentioned the font is way too small and pixelated. The window can only be resized by dragging from the lower right hand corner (or status bar) and the options window insists on having a close button with than a X in the top right. Granted my views are only based on cosmetics, but surely these could have been addressed.


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## fgimian (Sep 13, 2016)

Little tip for Mac users, enable the zoom gesture in Accessibility. I use it all the time and it really helps when designers assume that everyone has perfect eyesight.


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## procreative (Sep 13, 2016)

Its a shame they did not come up with a better way to organise the Libraries tabs:

1. A smaller grid display say of 3 across.

2. A way to categorise the Library tabs (I know you can do this at an instrument level buts thats way too tedious).

So I would add a category to a library, then for instance, say I want a drum sound, I could filter out everything but drum libraries to make that list easier to scroll.


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## mickeyl (Sep 13, 2016)

Well, consider 5.6 an interim release anyways. 6.0 is supposed to come with the big changes. Hopefully font sizes, as well


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## lux (Sep 13, 2016)

any CPU usage improvements?


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## mickeyl (Sep 13, 2016)

Not perceivable. And I wouldn't expect any as it looks like there aren't any intrusive changes to the engine made. Like I said, that's probably coming in 6.0.


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## Reactor.UK (Sep 13, 2016)

mickeyl said:


> Like I said, that's probably coming in 6.0.


Any news on the release year for Kontakt 6.0?


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## Mystic (Sep 13, 2016)

Reactor.UK said:


> Any news on the release year for Kontakt 6.0?


Shall we take bets on whether Kontakt 6 or Book 6 of Song of Fire and Ice (Game of Thrones) comes out first?


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## jtnyc (Sep 13, 2016)

There is a thread on NI's feature request forum addressing the font size and the key colors if you want to chime in. I figure the more people they hear from the better.
http://tiny.ph/QMKH


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## Ashermusic (Sep 13, 2016)

jtnyc said:


> There is a thread on NI's feature request forum addressing the font size and the key colors if you want to chime in. I figure the more people they hear from the better.
> http://tiny.ph/QMKH



Well, they sure ignored us beta testers who complained about it.


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## Baron Greuner (Sep 13, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Latest version of El Capitan, Baron. Have just done a clean install and reloaded everything during the last week on my 2014 Mac Pro. No issues at all so far. One report of scrolling not working well (not sure if Riffwraith has a PC or a Mac), but it works fine for me. Jay mentioned the text could be bigger, but it's a huge improvement on my machine and I no longer have to zoom in to read the words.



Awesome Frank. The only thing that concerns me are the issues that seem to have come up about being able to read the print. We older guys have crappy eyesight a lot of the time. I'm on an iMac 5K screen. Will this be really clear or is it so small as to be unreadable?


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## Fleer (Sep 13, 2016)

fgimian said:


> Little tip for Mac users, enable the zoom gesture in Accessibility. I use it all the time and it really helps when designers assume that everyone has perfect eyesight.


^^^This


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## EvilDragon (Sep 13, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> Well, they sure ignored us beta testers who complained about it.



They didn't ignore us, it's just that I venture it was not an easy and fast change that late in beta cycle (my assumption - something clashed with large font option when they changed over to a newer GUI framework so they removed it for the time being, fully aware of backlash and consequences - on the other hand, they could have axed the small font option instead, so I feel you there ). They heard us loud and clear (read up again what was said on CC), so it is safe to assume we'll likely see some more work done to the GUI in 5.7 and onward. This is also why instrument edit mode wasn't touched - that is a really big task that needs more time to be finished.


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## WindcryMusic (Sep 13, 2016)

From what I have read on the NI forum, I think I'm going to be waiting a while to install this update ... and possibly forever. Aside from the various bug reports, apparently there is a design "feature" of removing zone/hotkey highlighting from the popup keyboard window for 3rd party libraries (because they need to be updated to be compatible with the new Komplete Kontrol API). This would make working with a great many of my existing 3rd party libraries a serious pain, and I am not optimistic that all or even most of them will be updated for Kontrol compatibility.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 13, 2016)

You read that wrong. Keycoloring works for all libraries that are using set_key_color command (which is great majority of them). OP of that thread on NI forum mentions Scarbee bass libraries, but they all work just fine, keycolors are shown, as you can see. It just looks different.


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## WindcryMusic (Sep 13, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> You read that wrong. Keycoloring works for all libraries that are using set_key_color command (which is great majority of them). OP of that thread on NI forum mentions Scarbee bass libraries, but they all work just fine, keycolors are shown, as you can see. It just looks different.



Evidently I did read that wrong. Well, that's one less concern at least ... thanks!


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## MA-Simon (Sep 13, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> but they all work just fine, keycolors are shown, as you can see. It just looks different.


Imho this is horrible and very hard to see. Is it like that for all libraries, the key colours beeing reduced to tiny pixel-blips? I understand they want to promote their keyboards, but... its hard to recognize on a glance.


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## StatKsn (Sep 13, 2016)

Uh, I'm not so sure if I like the new keycolor in terms of both visibility and look-and-feel. It feels like early 2000.


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## camelot (Sep 13, 2016)

Seems to me like there is no need to update, unless sample lib developers of your choise start using the new math lib for floating point numbers.


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## playz123 (Sep 13, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> Awesome Frank. The only thing that concerns me are the issues that seem to have come up about being able to read the print. We older guys have crappy eyesight a lot of the time. I'm on an iMac 5K screen. Will this be really clear or is it so small as to be unreadable?


I am having no trouble reading the print shown on my 30" Dell monitor via my Mac Pro, and I do indeed have 'old' eyes  The one area where I find the the text is a tiny bit too small though is in Quick Load. But I used to have to zoom in to read print in the File browser and now I don't, so there definitely have been improvements. That they are enough doesn't seem to be the case for some people though, and there does indeed still seem to be a demand for larger print. Not sure how everything will look on your monitor, but I guess there's only one way to find out.  Bottom line: I've noticed an improvement, but some others appear to still be unhappy. Sorry I can't provide a more definitive answer. Cheers!


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## synthpunk (Sep 13, 2016)

I may just wait for a future update, but could someone post a screen shot of 5.6 please ? Thanks.


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## Mystic (Sep 13, 2016)

StatKsn said:


> Uh, I'm not so sure if I like the new keycolor in terms of both visibility and look-and-feel. It feels like early 2000.


I absolutely hate it. To me it makes it feel like they are trying to force sales on their keyboards since that will be the only way to really be able to "see" the colours now. Hopefully this can be modded somehow.


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## playz123 (Sep 13, 2016)

MA-Simon said:


> Imho this is horrible and very hard to see. Is it like that for all libraries, the key colours being reduced to tiny pixel-blips? I understand they want to promote their keyboards, but... its hard to recognize on a glance.


I have no doubt NI is trying to tie in the key color display in Kontakt with their NKS related S-Series keyboards. For those of use who have one, and are appreciating NKS compatible libraries, it all makes sense and coordinates with the the lights on the hardware keyboard. But for others (and depending on monitor size and its clarity) I can understand the concern. Certainly it's not as obvious as when the keys themselves were colored (sometimes erroneously). Haven't noticed the Kontakt display keys 'sticking' though like they sometimes did, but it's still too early for me to tell if that issue has really been fixed.


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## playz123 (Sep 13, 2016)

synthpunk said:


> I may just wait for a future update, but could someone post a screen shot of 5.6 please ? Thanks.


Yes, but it's not going to look quite as sharp via a .jpg (or as large) as on your your screen with Kontakt loaded.


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## mc_deli (Sep 13, 2016)

Just check me on this... the thing I hated about K5 was that the GUI was so small and fiddly and now they've made text smaller?


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## PerryD (Sep 13, 2016)

It can't hurt to add your protest to the NI forum mentioned earlier in this thread. I certainly did.


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## higgs (Sep 13, 2016)

Hm, the text seems even more challenging to read on Retina MBP than it was in 5.5x. Perhaps the difference between bitmap text vs. text...text? Or perhaps the contrast between the text and bitmap-text makes it a bit like a sore-thumb.


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## SBK (Sep 13, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Yes, but it's not going to look quite as sharp via a .jpg (or as large) as on your your screen with Kontakt loaded.


What an ugly interface of library that is? :D :D


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## jtnyc (Sep 13, 2016)

Would someone so kind and post a pic of quickload and the file browser?

Thanks -


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## synthpunk (Sep 13, 2016)

Anyone happen to know what was added in Kontakt Factory Library 1.3.0 ?


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## procreative (Sep 13, 2016)

Not sure whether this is worth updating to, looking at the changelog part from the GUI, a lot of the fixes are for things that do not affect me or seem to be aimed at scripters enabling them to take advantage of features already there.

There does not seem to be any mention of performance/speed improvements apart from those with heavy image resources (not sure what libraries that would help with).

From the official thread:

*WHAT'S NEW*
Kontakt 5.6 contains the following updates and improvements:


*CHANGED *

The user interface style has received a major update
The maximum height of instruments was raised to 750 pixels when set via KSP
Improved performance on certain scripts using heavy image resources

*ADDED *

Real numbers and advanced math functions are now available in KSP
New KSP command to enable instruments up to 1000 pixels wide: set_ui_width_px()
Official support for automation assignments via KSP, improving a previously undocumented, yet widely used feature
Parameter names are now visible in ProTools’ Plug-in Automation list
Usage data tracking. More info here: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/knowledge-base/show/4519/what-is-usage-data-tracking/
New KSP command to set an instrument’s color including its header: set_ui_color()

*FIXED*

The Transient Master effect stopped processing when there were no voices running, abruptly muting tails of other effects
The Phaser effect produced stereo signal with muted right channel when used with mono samples
Common loading time issue with commercial Libraries that was worked around by local batch re-save
Sample-rate changes would cause crackles and changes of the sound of the convolution effect
NKA files would silently fail being written to disk under certain circumstances (affected certain Libraries, like EXHALE)
Modal dialog placement was unpredictable - now everything appears on center of active display
Crash when showing the Quickload panel while having high UI activity on a Performance View
Crash on OS X when changing the latency setting right after changing the sample rate
Crash when renaming modulators under certain circumstances
Deleting MIDI CC modulators only worked on one group even when attempting it over multiple ones
Editing modulators of modulators only worked on on one group even when attempting it over multiple ones
Attempting to rename modulators across multiple groups yielded unexpected results
The memory footprint display on instrument header froze when in MASCHINE or KOMPLETE KONTROL
The UI of the mod shaper turned unusable when deleting the first or last node
Drag and drop was broken on OS X if a CD was in the drive
Changing snapshots on bigger instruments caused a parse error under certain circumstances
KSP: Parameter value strings (labels) wouldn’t be published to DAW if triggered from within the ui_control callback of textedit controls
KSP variable $EVENT_PAR_SOURCE was unreliable under certain circumstances
The Retrigger factory script would freeze notes when rate-knob was set to bar and clock was not running

*GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN *

The Modules tab from the sidebar has been removed
The font size option has been removed

*KNOWN ISSUES*

The database will be empty after updating to 5.6; a manual “Reset and Rescan” is required

All French, German, Japanese and Spanish documentation is out of date
The Getting Started documents are out of date


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## Shubus (Sep 13, 2016)

Looks like I'm going to have to invest in a 30" monitor if I want to be able to read the text and save my eyes.


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## wpc982 (Sep 13, 2016)

Can't really believe it: fonts too small? Large size still barely readable? So they eliminate large font? 

Can this be true?


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## jononotbono (Sep 13, 2016)

I've just upgraded to 5.6 and the option for Large font is still there.


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## wpc982 (Sep 13, 2016)

How about the bug in instrument banks? No controllers work for instruments in a bank unless that bank is saved into a multi? (Open Kontakt as VSTi; create instrument bank with several instruments; change instrument from the DAW; send controller value --- no effect).


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## jtnyc (Sep 13, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> I've just upgraded to 5.6 and the option for Large font is still there.



Really? Is this for sure?


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## galactic orange (Sep 13, 2016)

Small font only plus the new light guide style above the key layout means I'll probably roll back to the earlier Kontakt. On my 27" monitor at 1440p I still have trouble seeing both these items. Maybe NI could make the light portion more square-ish or a little taller? I like the old way better.


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## jononotbono (Sep 13, 2016)

Let me just double check. I updated it via service centre along with the factory library earlier.


jtnyc said:


> Really? Is this for sure?


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## galactic orange (Sep 13, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> I updated it via service centre along with the factory library earlier.


I updated via Native Access. Then out of curiosity I opened Service Center and the 5.6.0 Kontakt update showed up as an update, but not so for the Factory Library update. Strange.


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## jononotbono (Sep 13, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> Let me just double check. I updated it via service centre along with the factory library earlier.



Sorry for the false hope. Despite updating twice it hadn't actually updated. I've now successfully updated 5.6 and the font options are certainly not there. Great. Now I'm going to need a monocle.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 13, 2016)

wpc982 said:


> How about the bug in instrument banks? No controllers work for instruments in a bank unless that bank is saved into a multi? (Open Kontakt as VSTi; create instrument bank with several instruments; change instrument from the DAW; send controller value --- no effect).



That bug was fixed in 5.5.2.


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## wpc982 (Sep 13, 2016)

Hm. I didn't even know there WAS a 5.5.2! Still on 5.5.1.451 ... thanks!

Ugh. A moment of research shows this: Native Access requires an internet connection in order to install and update your products. 

Why do companies making a lot of money from a lot of people do this?


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## neblix (Sep 13, 2016)

wpc982 said:


> Ugh. A moment of research shows this: Native Access requires an internet connection in order to install and update your products.
> 
> Why do companies making a lot of money from a lot of people do this?



Because you have to be connected to the internet in order to acquire files across the internet...?


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## wpc982 (Sep 13, 2016)

two computers works very well. one on the internet and a private network, the music computer only on a private network. But oddly I can access 5.6 with my internet computer for download, through my NI account, only not 5.5.2 ...


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## EvilDragon (Sep 13, 2016)

Again, you can always download updates manually from your NI account page...

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?search=kontakt


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## neblix (Sep 13, 2016)

wpc982 said:


> two computers works very well. one on the internet and a private network, the music computer only on a private network. But oddly I can access 5.6 with my internet computer for download, through my NI account, only not 5.5.2 ...



No one's requiring you to download through Native Access.


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## wpc982 (Sep 13, 2016)

Many thanks for the direct link, evildragon, that worked!! An important update for me, since I use banks all the time -- couldn't seem to get there from my main account page, but no doubt user error was involved.


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## Daniel James (Sep 13, 2016)

Why the fuck did they put all the options in a drop down.....just to leave a fuck ton of empty space along the top.

Also the coloured keys are shit now. Much harder to see. Its like these guys read a book on innovation and did the complete opposite.

-DJ


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## Daniel James (Sep 13, 2016)

Why the fuck did they put all the options in a drop down.....just to leave a fuck ton of empty space along the top.

Also the coloured keys are shit now. Much harder to see. Its like these guys read a book on innovation and did the complete opposite.

-DJ


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## jtnyc (Sep 13, 2016)

Can someone please snap a picture with quickload open?


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## fgimian (Sep 13, 2016)

Daniel James said:


> Why the fuck did they put all the options in a drop down.....just to leave a fuck ton of empty space along the top.
> 
> Also the coloured keys are shit now. Much harder to see. Its like these guys read a book on innovation and did the complete opposite.
> 
> -DJ



I have to agree that it's much less accessible to get to areas now. Is there any shortcut key that lets you open the Outputs section or do you have to use that dropdown?


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## Vovique (Sep 14, 2016)

Disaster! Updated to 5.6, now in Pro Tools 10 I get this((. All projects open with the attached warning and empty Kontakt 5.3.1 (how come??!! had 5.5 installed) instances, with no way of knowing what patches were saved in sessions. Unless there is a quick fix, I'm reverting to 5.5.


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## Baron Greuner (Sep 14, 2016)

Awesome guys! Great info. Especial thanks to Frank but I think because I have not the greatest eyesight on the planet I'm going to leave this one and checkout the next one.


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## ionian (Sep 14, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> Well, they sure ignored us beta testers who complained about it.



Not sure how NI works but as crazy as it sounds did you try reaching out to the CEO during the beta cycle?

I was a beta tester for some very well known music software. During a beta cycle, a developer on the beta forum removed some serious functionality that had been in the program for a very long time. All of us beta testers howled about it as it was a very bad decision but the developer just ignored us and kept saying how in time we'd come to understand his vision. 

Still every day the beta testers protested until the developer finally said, "Enough. It's not going back." 

So I found an old press release in the wall street journal from when they changed CEOs to the current one and it had the CEO's private email! 

So I wrote the CEO an impassioned letter, telling them I was a beta tester and that they might not be aware that some serious changes that won't be well received were being made to the program and that the developer working on that part refused to listen to us. I enclosed a link to the exact thread. I also gave the CEO a detailed list explaining how the removal of the functionality was harming the workflow in a huge way.

I was amazed a day later to receive a very nice letter from the CEO letting me know that they were grateful I had reached out to them. They said that they had checked the link I attached and gone through the thread and that they were having an emergency company meeting to discuss everything. 

I couldn't believe it. 

Anyway, a few days later I got a follow up email from the CEO that they had the meeting and they were going to restore the functionality to the program but it was too late in the beta cycle to put it in at that moment and that they were releasing a patch within the first week that would restore it. 

They also told me that they were overhauling the entire beta program from the ground up to improve communication. The CEO had told me that they were very embarrassed that as a beta tester I had to resort to such desperate measures to get my protestations heard by anyone other than the developer. 

They also unfortunately let go of the developer who was working on that part of the program - Which I did feel badly about because I never asked for his termination. I just asked the CEO to come to the beta thread to see what was going on. But then again, I wasn't in the company meeting and so who knows what took place. 

But in the end, the functionality was restored. I also heard from another insider at the company that the first week the new version was released that they had received hell from their customers about the newly missing functionality and so the company was super happy that they were going to have a patch to remedy it almost immediately rather than not knowing about it and having to deal with the backlash from day one of the release. They were also able to address the concerns of the customers right away and let them know it was being restored. 

Anyway, no real point to my rambling story except that sometimes when you feel powerless, maybe going above someone's head can work. I stress again that this was some very well known music software from a publically traded company! It sounds almost insane that I got that kind of response from the CEO but you never know until you try.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 14, 2016)

fgimian said:


> Is there any shortcut key that lets you open the Outputs section or do you have to use that dropdown?



Shortcuts always existed, see manual. They're F-keys, so unfortunately very likely not available in the plugin, but they do work in standalone.


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## Vovique (Sep 14, 2016)

Now it turns out all the legacy Kontakt installers are gone from NI site((. Can't revert back to 5.5, now texting friends for Kontakt 5.pre-6 full installer.


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## theXbucket (Sep 14, 2016)

anyone else having problems in adding libraries? i can´t add project sam libs, serials for the aeon collection are not working anymore... contacted the support, but so far no answer.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 14, 2016)

Vovique said:


> Now it turns out all the legacy Kontakt installers are gone from NI site((. Can't revert back to 5.5, now texting friends for Kontakt 5.pre-6 full installer.



Nope, as answered on NI forum.


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## Vovique (Sep 14, 2016)

Phew! Happy to report that with a great help from Mr. EvilDragon, I am back at 5.5.2 and all systems go!


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## jononotbono (Sep 14, 2016)

Can anyone tell me the actual reason that being able to change Font size has been removed?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 14, 2016)

We can only assume. My assumption is here: http://vi-control.net/community/threads/kontakt-5-6.55833/page-2#post-3991063


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## jononotbono (Sep 14, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> We can only assume. My assumption is here: http://vi-control.net/community/threads/kontakt-5-6.55833/page-2#post-3991063



Thanks man. Sounds like a good assumption to me and you know a "little bit" about Kontakt so I'll go with that!


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## fgimian (Sep 14, 2016)

Just an FYI, the 5.5.2 download is still present on the link provided above. NI aren't like Apple, they keep older versions


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## Quasar (Sep 14, 2016)

neblix said:


> Because you have to be connected to the internet in order to acquire files across the internet...?



No. Just because a personal computer workstation is capable of being a communications device doesn't mean it has to be.


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## playz123 (Sep 14, 2016)

theXbucket said:


> anyone else having problems in adding libraries? i can´t add project sam libs, serials for the aeon collection are not working anymore... contacted the support, but so far no answer.


None what so ever, and I've just installed a 'ton' of new libraries, including a reinstall of Project Sam stuff and all went well. Suggestion: uninstall the problem library completely using the NI uninstall guide, then use Native Access to reload the library. Don't forget to remove the .xml file from Service Center as well before reinstalling. I've done all that a few times lately and it works well.


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## catsass (Sep 14, 2016)

MA-Simon said:


> Imho this is horrible and very hard to see. Is it like that for all libraries, the key colours beeing reduced to tiny pixel-blips? I understand they want to promote their keyboards, but... its hard to recognize on a glance.


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## kurtvanzo (Sep 14, 2016)

playz123 said:


> None what so ever, and I've just installed a 'ton' of new libraries, including a reinstall of Project Sam stuff and all went well. Suggestion: uninstall the problem library completely using the NI uninstall guide, then use Native Access to reload the library. Don't forget to remove the .xml file from Service Center as well before reinstalling. I've done all that a few times lately and it works well.



Did you need to reload all your player libraries after updating? That would be a huge hassle.


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## jononotbono (Sep 14, 2016)

kurtvanzo said:


> Did you need to reload all your player libraries after updating? That would be a huge hassle.



I didn't. Everything works fine. Except for my Eyes from now not being able to see anything haha


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## neblix (Sep 14, 2016)

Tugboat said:


> No. Just because a personal computer workstation is capable of being a communications device doesn't mean it has to be.



You still have to be connected to the internet on any other computer in order to download something. Even if it's not your workstation computer.

It's like typing "native-instruments.com/" in your browser and being angry that your browser says "there's no internet connection".

Again, no one is requiring the use of Native Access... it's silly to complain about an internet-based utility requiring internet. Internet cloud-like experience is the POINT of Native Access. If you're not into that experience, Native Access isn't for you.

I don't understand how you can expect a utility that is designed to install and update products not to need internet in order to acquire installation files. That's absurd. The only way that would work is if they shipped you Native Access and DVD's containing all of their products (hundreds of GB), that then are locked behind serial numbers.


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## zeng (Sep 14, 2016)

Do we have to batch re-save libraries again after updating to Kontakt 5.6?


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## jononotbono (Sep 14, 2016)

zeng said:


> Do we have to batch re-save libraries again after updating to Kontakt 5.6?



I haven't bothered batch re-saving anything and Albion One + Piano in Blue load instantly. I haven't had the time to test anything else out!


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## Quasar (Sep 14, 2016)

neblix said:


> You still have to be connected to the internet on any other computer in order to download something. Even if it's not your workstation computer.
> 
> It's like typing "native-instruments.com/" in your browser and being angry that your browser says "there's no internet connection".
> 
> ...



Throughout their entire history, NI has allowed for offline installation of their downloadable products via the Service Center, and it's only now that they are changing this. So it obviously can be done, they just no longer want to, and the Kontakt platform is clearly ubiquitous enough that they don't have to care whether this upsets some people or not. It's what the sociologists call an "asymmetrical power relationship" between powerful business interests and ordinary people.

Yes, you are quite right in saying that no one is _required_ to use Native Access, but many of us are already heavily invested in the NI ecosystem. I began purchasing NI/Kontakt instruments a number of years ago in no small part because NI respected the concept of a private, offline workstation and had unintrusive CP. This is no longer the case. Had it been the case from the beginning, I would not have supported them, just as I do not support other developers who use what I perceive to be heavy-handed activation protocols. But now it's too late to realistically do that. I cannot afford to start over with a more righteous alternative, even if one exists, so I am just going to live with it. But I do not have to like it, and there is nothing hyperbolic about calling NI's new activation system a betrayal, because that's exactly what it is.

And BTW, your implication that there is any structurally inherent rather than purely arbitrary reason that one's DAW computer need be connected to the web is in every respect 100% false.


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## zeng (Sep 14, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> I haven't bothered batch re-saving anything and Albion One + Piano in Blue load instantly. I haven't had the time to test anything else out!


That's good news! I hope we don't need to...


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## neblix (Sep 14, 2016)

Tugboat said:


> And BTW, your implication that there is any structurally inherent rather than purely arbitrary reason that one's DAW computer need be connected to the web is in every respect 100% false.



It's just as arbitrary as any reason not to have it connected to the web. It's 2016. Software products require online activation now. Just connect once, activate, and forget about it. With rampant piracy, how can you blame them for copy protection?


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## Quasar (Sep 14, 2016)

neblix said:


> Why don't you just not use Native Access and install the products manually? I don't understand; nothing has changed at all. I think you simply just misunderstand what's going on.



I wish this were the case, but while the Service Center is going to continue to exist for a while for "legacy" products, new products are going to require Native Access exclusively, and the day when NI libraries and updates will be able to be ported from online computers to offline workstations is ending. To say current, we will HAVE to put our workstations online. 

I've already inquired and received answers about this from NI. One of the key features of NA is the inability to keep installers. They're doing an "Apple" in which the installer files do their thing and then self-nuke, which obviously won't work with a challenge-response system for a 2nd computer (some people are grumbling about this feature because it doubles the bandwidth usage for those who use a desktop and a laptop). This is no doubt an anti-piracy measure, and I can sympathize with that... But it sucks when honest customers who pay for our stuff are forced to bear the burden.

Practically, this is not a big deal. But on principle it really upsets me, as I have always maintained my workstation offline, and see this as a fundamental human right to privacy, in line with the centuries-old tradition of keeping a private journal or a diary...


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## neblix (Sep 14, 2016)

Tugboat said:


> Practically, this is not a big deal. But on principle it really upsets me, as I have always maintained my workstation offline, and see this as a fundamental human right to privacy, in line with the centuries-old tradition of keeping a private journal or a diary...



Maybe I'm too new-fashioned. I don't understand how being connected to the internet undermines privacy. Nothing on the internet can come and reach into your computer and read your files unless you grant permission. The exception I guess is installing something, but an online-run installation doesn't touch any file/folder locations that an offline one doesn't.

It seems entirely like a _feelings _complaint, and I admit, my opposition to it is partly because of a more exaggerated complaint that used words like "Orwellian" and "human rights violations", which seemed... in very poor taste, considering what's happening in the world right now. If something is "practically" not a big deal, then why is it being communicated like something that is fundamentally a *big deal* (human rights violations)?

I can't be mad at any CP scheme that only requires my computer to be on the internet at time of activation. It's miles and miles better than things like iLok, which require me to spend actual $$ on a small device that can be broken or lost (that costs full price to replace) and disallows me from making music on multiple computers at once.


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## mdvirtual (Sep 14, 2016)

catsass said:


>



Too funny!

Tried it, hated it. Haven't backed out of an update this fast since Pro tools 12.5. Back to 5.5.2 with an hour wasted for install/uninstall/reinstall

Hope NI gets their act together before the devs create a bunch of cool new libraries that can only run in 5.6


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## Quasar (Sep 14, 2016)

neblix said:


> Maybe I'm too new-fashioned. I don't understand how being connected to the internet undermines privacy. Nothing on the internet can come and reach into your computer and read your files unless you grant permission. The exception I guess is installing something, but an online-run installation doesn't touch any file/folder locations that an offline one doesn't.
> 
> It seems entirely like a _feelings _complaint, and I admit, my opposition to it is partly because of a more exaggerated complaint that used words like "Orwellian" and "human rights violations", which seemed... in very poor taste, considering what's happening in the world right now. If something is "practically" not a big deal, then why is it being communicated like something that is fundamentally a *big deal* (human rights violations)?
> 
> I can't be mad at any CP scheme that only requires my computer to be on the internet at time of activation. It's miles and miles better than things like iLok, which require me to spend actual $$ on a small device that can be broken or lost (that costs full price to replace) and disallows me from making music on multiple computers at once.



Addressing your points would involve a broader political dissection, beyond the scope of this form. But suffice to say words such as "Orwellian" are entirely appropriate as descriptive terms for what's happening in society generally, in which new "norms" erode human rights across the spectrum, but largely go unnoticed & unchallenged because they occur incrementally and over time, and in which the world of audio software activation is but a really tiny, trivial (though definitely reflective and interconnected) microcosmic example of this...

...But I agree with you that at least this is better than iLok etc., and we do only have to go online for a few minutes every once in a while. I can learn to live with it, but need to do the spiritual work required to get over the resentment. And I would hope for the record that anyone else who is bothered by this (it's not many people I know, not nearly enough care to make a difference to NI) would write to NI expressing their disenchantment. It won't do any good, but it can't hurt either.

But I am genuinely surprised that more DAW aficionados aren't seeing this activation policy change as at least a major news story, given the absolutely essential and uniquely elevated status of Kontakt as a tool for contemporary music creation. That the font size in 5.6 is a much bigger deal around here is, frankly, disheartening...


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## jtnyc (Sep 14, 2016)

I thought this was a thread about Kontakt 5.6


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## Ashermusic (Sep 14, 2016)

mdvirtual said:


> Too funny!
> 
> Tried it, hated it. Haven't backed out of an update this fast since Pro tools 12.5. Back to 5.5.2 with an hour wasted for install/uninstall/reinstall



Yes, I think I am heading that way as well.

EDIT: OK, I just did it. What a relief to be able to see things again. First time I have ever had to do this with Kontakt that I remember.


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## JohnG (Sep 14, 2016)

I am not clear on more than small, incremental advantages of upgrading. Am I missing a lot?


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## airflamesred (Sep 14, 2016)

JohnG said:


> I am not clear on more than small, incremental advantages of upgrading. Am I missing a lot?


Well this is also what I'm thinking. One is made to feel obligated to upgrade, and for what?


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## playz123 (Sep 14, 2016)

kurtvanzo said:


> Did you need to reload all your player libraries after updating? That would be a huge hassle.


NO....absolutely not. I was just doing a clean install of El Capitan earlier this month, but nearly all my libraries were in place by the time Kontakt 5.6 was released. So it was just an update for me, like most others. But I did gain a lot of experience loading libraries using Native Access instead of Service Center. And I also discovered I have way too many libraries for one person.


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## playz123 (Sep 14, 2016)

airflamesred said:


> Well this is also what I'm thinking. One is made to feel obligated to upgrade, and for what?


Why feel obligated?? The improvements are listed here and elsewhere, there are images of the new interface, comments on the font size and some feel there are improvements while others disagree. In brief, it's really up to each individual to check all that out then decide whether or not to update. But also no need to feel any pressure to do so if one is reluctant. I've stated earlier that I like the new interface, felt the fonts in the File and Library browser were easier to read, and there's a nice tie in with Komplete Kontrol and my S series keyboard, so I loaded 5.6. Since then I've had zero issues and am happy with my decision. Others, may for their own reasons, decide to remain with 5.5. Personal choice; no pressure.


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## jtnyc (Sep 14, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Why feel obligated?? The improvements are listed here and elsewhere, there are images of the new interface, comments on the font size and some feel there are improvements while others disagree. In brief, it's really up to each individual to check all that out then decide whether or not to update. But also no need to feel any pressure to do so if one is reluctant. I've stated earlier that I like the new interface, felt the fonts in the File and Library browser were easier to read, and there's a nice tie in with Komplete Kontrol and my S series keyboard, so I loaded 5.6. Since then I've had zero issues and am happy with my decision. Others, may for their own reasons, decide to remain with 5.5. Personal choice; no pressure.



Frank - you say the font in the file browser is improved for you in 5.6. Did you previously use the larger font option or were you always looking at small font? Also, have they changed the background to dark in the file browser and or quickload? I've been asking for someone to kindly post a pic with the file and quickload browsers open, but no one has.... yet...?

I'd love to get a look at that -

Thanks


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## catsass (Sep 14, 2016)

Just rolled back to 5.5.2
The mini keyswitching colors above the virtual keyboard as opposed to the fully colored keys was a deal-breaker - though I tried to stick with it.

Stating the obvious, but just an FYI:
Shortly after I upgraded to 5.6, I started a new project. After the roll back, I opened the project (Cubase 8.5 - win7 pro 64bit) and was greeted with this lovely message:







The project opens, but all instances of Kontakt are devoid of my previously loaded instruments. I can deal with it, (like I have a choice!) but what a pain in the arse! I spent a considerable amount of time dialing things in, etc. and poof! Gone.


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## playz123 (Sep 14, 2016)

jtnyc said:


> Frank - you say the font in the file browser is improved for you in 5.6. Did you previously use the larger font option or were you always looking at small font? Also, have they changed the background to dark in the file browser and or quickload? I've been asking for someone to kindly post a pic with the file and quickload browsers open, but no one has.... yet...?
> 
> I'd love to get a look at that -
> 
> Thanks


No, I previously used the default font and zoomed in every time I wanted to read something in 5.5. Now I don't have to do that, except perhaps when messing around in Quick Load sometimes. I can read in QL...it's just easier to work if I zoom a wee bit. Actually I did post a large picture of Kontakt 5.6 earlier in this thread, so check it out (Post #40). However, the first thing I should mention is that .jpg compression reduces the clarity of what one actually sees on one's screen, so a picture from someone else's computer, in this case, really can't demonstrate accurately what you might see on _your_ screen. Screen shots>.jpg can be deceptive sometimes.


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## jtnyc (Sep 14, 2016)

I did see that pic, but quickload nor the file browser is open in it. Besides the font size I'm also curious if they have changed the backgrounds of QL and the file browser to a dark background to match the library browser


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## playz123 (Sep 14, 2016)

catsass said:


> Just rolled back to 5.5.2
> The mini keyswitching colors above the virtual keyboard as opposed to the fully colored keys was a deal-breaker - though I tried to stick with it.
> 
> Shortly after I upgraded to 5.6, I started a new project. After the roll back, I opened the project (Cubase 8.5 - win64 pro) and was greeted with this lovely message:
> ...


Guess that can happen with other things as well when has progressed then rolled back, so it's just a fact of life. Re. the keys though, one thought I had is that they might have added the LED indicators to match their S series keyboards, but also kept the colored keys for folks who don't use NKS compatible hardware and software. But as I suggested yesterday, I'm assuming they are trying to push users towards their products.....and not too subtly either.  What I'm still not seeing is why _some_ people are reverting. Others I understand. But is 5.6 really that bad? It certainly has been solid so far for me. I can only comment based on my own experiences and hardware of course.....and I do have an S88 so the small key lights aren't a problem for me or others in a similar situation. They certainly could be, and are, for users like yourself though.


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## jtnyc (Sep 14, 2016)

If you had relied on the larger font for years, I would think, it's really that bad


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## playz123 (Sep 14, 2016)

jtnyc said:


> I did see that pic, but quickload nor the file browser is open in it. Besides the font size I'm also curious if they have changed the backgrounds of QL and the file browser to a dark background to match the library browser


Here you go...if you insist. But I must repeat that the text isn't as sharp in the .jpg image as it is on my screen....or as it might (or might not) be on yours. 

PS: I'm just about to rebuild Quick Load again, so have nothing much in there just yet.


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## jtnyc (Sep 14, 2016)

Ha, thanks Frank. I wasn't insisting, just pointing out that that first pic did not answer my question. And this one does! A dark background for quickload! Hurray indeed! Now all they have to do is restore the large font option and colored keys.... I think they will at least restore the large font. I hope.

Thanks again Frank -


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## catsass (Sep 14, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Guess that can happen with other things as well when has progressed then rolled back, so it's just a fact of life. Re. the keys though, one thought I had is that they might have added the LED indicators to match their S series keyboards, but also kept the colored keys for folks who don't use NKS compatible hardware and software. But as I suggested yesterday, I'm assuming they are trying to push users towards their products.....and not too subtly either.  What I'm still not seeing is why _some_ people are reverting. Others I understand. But is 5.6 really that bad? It certainly has been solid so far for me. I can only comment based on my own experiences and hardware of course.....and I do have an S88 so the small key lights aren't a problem for me or others in a similar situation. They certainly could be, and are, for users like yourself though.


A fact of life indeed! I thought I'd share my experience so if need be, others can take specific precautionary measures to avoid getting caught with their pants down as I did. 
As for 5.6...the keyswitch color situation was my only gripe. Outside of that, I personally found it to be quite solid.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 14, 2016)

catsass said:


> Just rolled back to 5.5.2
> The mini keyswitching colors above the virtual keyboard as opposed to the fully colored keys was a deal-breaker - though I tried to stick with it.
> 
> Shortly after I upgraded to 5.6, I started a new project. After the roll back, I opened the project (Cubase 8.5 - win7 pro 64bit) and was greeted with this lovely message:
> ...




Yep, me too.


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## Fleer (Sep 14, 2016)

Still liking 5.6 a lot, mainly because of its crisp look and Kontrol S integration.


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## Vovique (Sep 14, 2016)

playz123 said:


> What I'm still not seeing is why _some_ people are reverting.


My main DAW is Pro Tools 10. After updating, AAX plugin won't load any more. Back to 5.5.2 and it works fine.


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## zeng (Sep 14, 2016)

HOw are you rolling back to 5.5.2?? Where can I find the installer?


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## Vovique (Sep 15, 2016)

Log in and go to:
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?search=kontakt


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## babylonwaves (Sep 15, 2016)

Fleer said:


> Still liking 5.6 a lot, mainly because of its crisp look and Kontrol S integration.


let me ask you something about the Kontrol S integration. i have one of those keyboards and the light guides on the keyboard all stay blue when I load a kontakt intrument on that track. do I have to use Komplete Kontrol and choose a Kontakt instrument in there in order to see the light guides with the right colors for the zones? that wouldn't make much sense to me...


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## prodigalson (Sep 15, 2016)

catsass said:


> Just rolled back to 5.5.2
> The mini keyswitching colors above the virtual keyboard as opposed to the fully colored keys was a deal-breaker - though I tried to stick with it.
> 
> Shortly after I upgraded to 5.6, I started a new project. After the roll back, I opened the project (Cubase 8.5 - win7 pro 64bit) and was greeted with this lovely message:
> ...



I suppose this would be expected behavior any time you start a project with one version and then go back a version mid-project?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 15, 2016)

babylonwaves said:


> let me ask you something about the Kontrol S integration. i have one of those keyboards and the light guides on the keyboard all stay blue when I load a kontakt intrument on that track. do I have to use Komplete Kontrol and choose a Kontakt instrument in there in order to see the light guides with the right colors for the zones? that wouldn't make much sense to me...



Yes, you need to use KK in order for LightGuide to work. Or Maschine.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 15, 2016)

jtnyc said:


> If you had relied on the larger font for years, I would think, it's really that bad




Yes, it is. The is the first time with a Kontakt update I have felt compelled to roll back, and I have used Kontakt since version 2.


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## playz123 (Sep 15, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> Yes, it is. The is the first time with a Kontakt update I have felt compelled to roll back, and I have used Kontakt since version 2.


Same here...have used Kontakt since 'day one' and my eyes are of a similar age. However, personally I currently see no reason to roll back, and see an improvement in the font from the previous version where I was using the default font. So there you go.....two totally opposite approaches!  So just go with the one that suits you best!


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## catsass (Sep 15, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> I suppose this would be expected behavior any time you start a project with one version and then go back a version mid-project?


Of course.  I thought I'd share the specifics of the action, and the specifics of the outcome with other fine folks in the forum. If my post saves just _one_ life...!

I have actually rolled-back a Kontakt update before without issue. But yes, in retrospect I was indeed stating the obvious. But for the greater good!


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## Fleer (Sep 15, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Same here...have used Kontakt since 'day one' and my eyes are of a similar age. However, personally I currently see no reason to roll back, and see an improvement in the font from the previous version where I was using the default font. So there you go.....two totally opposite approaches!  So just go with the one that suits you best!


Same here. 54 year old eyes. Loving it.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 15, 2016)

Well I am viewing it on a 4k Ultra HD.


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 15, 2016)

babylonwaves said:


> let me ask you something about the Kontrol S integration. i have one of those keyboards and the light guides on the keyboard all stay blue when I load a kontakt intrument on that track. do I have to use Komplete Kontrol and choose a Kontakt instrument in there in order to see the light guides with the right colors for the zones? that wouldn't make much sense to me...



This is a major drawback to those keyboards, is it really worth going through the trouble of putting all Kontakt inside KK instances? It's pretty amazing to me that NI either can't, or isn't willing to make the effort to have Kontakt itself communicate the colors to the keyboard.


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## playz123 (Sep 15, 2016)

Mike Connelly said:


> This is a major drawback to those keyboards, is it really worth going through the trouble of putting all Kontakt inside KK instances? It's pretty amazing to me that NI either can't, or isn't willing to make the effort to have Kontakt itself communicate the colors to the keyboard.



Guess it's a matter of opinion.  Perhaps not a direct response to your question, Mike, but certainly things are getting better all the time concerning integration. Just received the following from NI:

"The latest version of the KOMPLETE KONTROL software is now available. KOMPLETE KONTROL 1.7.0 is a free maintenance update for existing customers, and provides the following enhancements:
KOMPLETE KONTROL S-Series keyboards now offer improved integration with Cubase Pro/Artist 8.5 and Nuendo 7, with direct DAW control from the hardware
The accessibility features introduced for macOS in 1.6.0 are now available on Windows
Several small accessibility refinements in response to feedback from the community
Anonymous usage data tracking
For details on the Cubase/Nuendo integration, please read this Knowledge Base article. (article linked)
Usage data tracking will help ensure quality and stability by allowing us to collect important data on how the software is used. This is anonymous and can be disabled at any time. To learn more about usage data tracking, please read this Knowledge Base article (article linked)."


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## kurtvanzo (Sep 15, 2016)

mdvirtual said:


> Too funny!
> 
> Tried it, hated it. Haven't backed out of an update this fast since Pro tools 12.5. Back to 5.5.2 with an hour wasted for install/uninstall/reinstall
> 
> Hope NI gets their act together before the devs create a bunch of cool new libraries that can only run in 5.6


Hopefully they will consider another update to this, but it may come as version 6, which will have it's own changes. And will be a paid upgrade.


playz123 said:


> Guess it's a matter of opinion.  Perhaps not a direct response to your question, Mike, but certainly things are getting better all the time concerning integration. Just received the following from NI:
> 
> "The latest version of the KOMPLETE KONTROL software is now available. KOMPLETE KONTROL 1.7.0 is a free maintenance update for existing customers, and provides the following enhancements:
> KOMPLETE KONTROL S-Series keyboards now offer improved integration with Cubase Pro/Artist 8.5 and Nuendo 7, with direct DAW control from the hardware
> ...



Thanks for all the info Frank. Do you need to then use KK whenever you select a patch instead of using Kontakt directly? Or just have KK open? Have you loaded it into your templates or does it work as a separate stand alone app that has to be opened along side your DAW each time?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 15, 2016)

Mike Connelly said:


> It's pretty amazing to me that NI either can't, or isn't willing to make the effort to have Kontakt itself communicate the colors to the keyboard.



There's a very good reason for the way NI made it work. If something needs to be updated in communication between the plugin and S-series keyboards, then only one application needs to be updated (KK) instead of each and every NI product that supports S-series features like LightGuide.


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 15, 2016)

Maybe it makes it easier for them but it's a huge inconvenience for the user. If they really want those keyboards to catch on it's not going to happen if it requires extra layers of software. Best case would be some sort of open standard so any plugin can use it directly but at the very least they should support it in each of their plugins.


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## playz123 (Sep 15, 2016)

kurtvanzo said:


> Thanks for all the info Frank. Do you need to then use KK whenever you select a patch instead of using Kontakt directly? Or just have KK open? Have you loaded it into your templates or does it work as a separate stand alone app that has to be opened along side your DAW each time?


You never need to use KK even if you have it. However it does have many advantages. One will want to use it if one wishes to have the light guide in Kontakt match one's S series keyboard display. Kontakt can be run within KK or on it's own in a DAW or as a standalone. Same with KK..it can be run as a standalone or in a DAW. The real advantages of KK become apparent when one uses with an S series keyboard. You can select patches within KK or you can select patches in Kontakt within KK or simply select patches in Kontakt and ignore KK. I know all this might sound a bit confusing, but it's actually quite understandable and flexible once one starts working with it. You can utilize it in many ways. I have a few instances in my main orchestral template, and may add more, but also utilize KK more often now on a daily basis when composing or trying new ideas. And more and more libraries are becoming NKS compatible, and that's a big bonus too. In brief, I can still work without using KK and I can also work with it, and I am doing that more regularly now. Nice integration with Cubase too as well as simple installs and updates via Native Access.

Gosh...I'm starting to sound like a commercial for NI...certainly not intended though.  I'm not wishing to push anyone in a certain direction, just pleased with the way it all works for me. Hope that helps, Kurt.


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## playz123 (Sep 15, 2016)

Mike Connelly said:


> If they really want those keyboards to catch on it's not going to happen if it requires extra layers of software. Best case would be some sort of open standard so any plugin can use it directly but at the very least they should support it in each of their plugins.


a keyboard doesn't "require" extra software...as such, but adding it is, IMHO, advantageous. In any case, not quite sure what you mean by 'they should support their plugins (libraries?). Can't think of many NI libraries that aren't NKS compatible now, and certainly many companies like Spitfire, Project Sam, Sonokintetic etc. are coming onboard with NKS support as well. In any case, perhaps I'm not interpreting your comment as intended. Maybe you were suggesting that they should support an 'open standard' in their plugins?? But isn't NKS something similar to the way Steinberg has created VST? Anyway sorry if I've misunderstood your remarks.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 15, 2016)

NKS is in fact an addition to VST, and there's SDK for it that 3rd party plugin devs can sign up for. It's just that NI wants to hub everything around Maschine/Komplete Kontrol. It was pretty much the same case with Kore 2 - if you wanted to use advanced Kore features, you had to load Kontakt in Kore, it wouldn't work standalone. Again, very good reasons for this, and no, I don't think it's an inconvenience for the user.


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## kurtvanzo (Sep 15, 2016)

playz123 said:


> You never need to use KK even if you have it. However it does have many advantages. One will want to use it if one wishes to have the light guide in Kontakt match one's S series keyboard display. Kontakt can be run within KK or on it's own in a DAW or as a standalone. Same with KK..it can be run as a standalone or in a DAW. The real advantages of KK become apparent when one uses with an S series keyboard. You can select patches within KK or you can select patches in Kontakt within KK or simply select patches in Kontakt and ignore KK. I know all this might sound a bit confusing, but it's actually quite understandable and flexible once one starts working with it. You can utilize it in many ways. I have a few instances in my main orchestral template, and may add more, but also utilize KK more often now on a daily basis when composing or trying new ideas. And more and more libraries are becoming NKS compatible, and that's a big bonus too. In brief, I can still work without using KK and I can also work with it, and I am doing that more regularly now. Nice integration with Cubase too as well as simple installs and updates via Native Access.
> 
> Gosh...I'm starting to sound like a commercial for NI...certainly not intended though.  I'm not wishing to push anyone in a certain direction, just pleased with the way it all works for me. Hope that helps, Kurt.


This does help thanks Frank. I like the idea of the keyboard, and don't even mind having to use KK, the problem is on top of the keyboard I would need Komplete. Considering I've already bought all the NI product I want (which is much) it's hard for me to repurchase most of it again JUST to use the keyboard properly. If I could at least get the light guide to work properly without buying Komplete, but no. Would be great if they had an upgrade path for those of us that own most of what's in Komplete... but no. So you can see why Kontakt 5.6 is for me and considerable downgrade. But I never liked buying things I'll never use (the other 40 percent of komplete) so that's just me.


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 15, 2016)

playz123 said:


> a keyboard doesn't "require" extra software...as such, but adding it is, IMHO, advantageous. In any case, not quite sure what you mean by 'they should support their plugins (libraries?). Can't think of many NI libraries that aren't NKS compatible now, and certainly many companies like Spitfire, Project Sam, Sonokintetic etc. are coming onboard with NKS support as well. In any case, perhaps I'm not interpreting your comment as intended. Maybe you were suggesting that they should support an 'open standard' in their plugins?? But isn't NKS something similar to the way Steinberg has created VST? Anyway sorry if I've misunderstood your remarks.



The midi part of the keyboard doesn't require extra software but obviously the extra features like the colored lights do. But since NI makes the keyboard and the plugins, they have the ability to put the necessary code in their plugins. It may be easier for them to run everything through a shell plugin, but if that was really necessary they could probably figure out a way to make it transparent to the user. Some may not consider the plugin-in-another plugin not to be an inconvenience, or to be worth the trouble, but there's no disputing that it does add extra work for the user.


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 15, 2016)

kurtvanzo said:


> This does help thanks Frank. I like the idea of the keyboard, and don't even mind having to use KK, the problem is on top of the keyboard I would need Komplete. Considering I've already bought all the NI product I want (which is much) it's hard for me to repurchase most of it again JUST to use the keyboard properly. If I could at least get the light guide to work properly without buying Komplete, but no. Would be great if they had an upgrade path for those of us that own most of what's in Komplete... but no.



You don't need Komplete, you just need Komplete Kontrol which is included with the keyboard. And yeah, they need to make their naming less confusing.


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## playz123 (Sep 15, 2016)

Mike Connelly said:


> You don't need Komplete, you just need Komplete Kontrol which is included with the keyboard. And yeah, they need to make their naming less confusing.


And as I'm sure everyone knows, a free, light version of Komplete comes with the keyboard.


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## Mystic (Sep 15, 2016)

I'm having an annoying issue right now where it crashes when I try to load new patches. Anyone else getting this?


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## babylonwaves (Sep 16, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> There's a very good reason for the way NI made it work. If something needs to be updated in communication between the plugin and S-series keyboards, then only one application needs to be updated (KK) instead of each and every NI product that supports S-series features like LightGuide.


i don't think that's a good reason at all. it might be more convenient for them and easier to handle. but really, if i want to use kontakt, i want to instantiate kontakt and not KK. i want to see a channel strip and know that it holds a kontakt instance. if i only use KK, i simply never know by looking at the mixer if this instance holds kontakt, massive or whatever else. of course i don't know their long term strategy and maybe there is a good reason for all that. but so far, the need to use KK in order to get the best out of their S-series keyboards really spoils the fun for me.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 16, 2016)

As if you cannot rename the track in your DAW to tell you which plugin it has on. Or rename the plugin instance (in Reaper you can, at least).


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## kurtvanzo (Sep 16, 2016)

playz123 said:


> And as I'm sure everyone knows, a free, light version of Komplete comes with the keyboard.


Did not know there was a light version of Komplete, thanks. Without Komplete would it see all my libraries (including 3rd party that are not NKS compatable)? Or just libraries that are NKS?

Also didn't realize you use The Kontrol plugin instead of Kontakt (is that right? i thought you would need to open both). Not a huge deal but does make the idea of redoing all my templates a lot larger of a project. So with the light version of Komplete I could add all of my other NI Kontakt libraries to Kontrol without buying full Komplete? That is news to me.


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 16, 2016)

Frank - the reason I'm not going near 5.6 isn't the font, I think I'd be fine with that. The key colours will be annoying. But my own dealbreaker is no purge on multis. That's a standard tool for me when working on the template. Insane that they removed it.

The other reason not to install 5.6 - the lack of a single good reason TO install.


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## paoling (Sep 16, 2016)

Guy Rowland said:


> The other reason not to install 5.6 - the lack of a single good reason TO install.


Maybe some new cool library coming? :D


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## DocMidi657 (Sep 16, 2016)

Does anyone know if in 5.6 it's true that you no longer have to Batch ReSave to improve loading time with commercial libraries? Noticed that as one of the 5.6 improvements listed in the documentation but have not updated yet.


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## playz123 (Sep 16, 2016)

kurtvanzo said:


> Did not know there was a light version of Komplete, thanks. Without Komplete would it see all my libraries (including 3rd party that are not NKS compatable)? Or just libraries that are NKS?
> 
> Also didn't realize you use The Kontrol plugin instead of Kontakt (is that right? i thought you would need to open both). Not a huge deal but does make the idea of redoing all my templates a lot larger of a project. So with the light version of Komplete I could add all of my other NI Kontakt libraries to Kontrol without buying full Komplete? That is news to me.


Hey Kurt....have a look at the bottom of the page. The freebie is called Komplete Select I believe:
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keyboards/komplete-kontrol-s-series/

Yes, you can open NKS and some non NKS libraries in Komplete Kontrol in standalone or in your DAW...you don't need Kontakt to do that and you can open Kontakt in KK and load a Kontakt library that way. But the colored keys on the S series keyboards want to see an NKS library in KK. when you do that magic happens and pretty lights appear!  I've attached a screen shot of a Lumina patch in KK.....Kontakt not involved. It doesn't show all the Option settings etc. in KK, but should answer your question.

You most certainly could buy an S series keyboard then load KK and Kontrol Editor, add any of your other non NI NKS libraries (e.g. Project Sam, some Spitfire etc.) to KK and go from there. You would of course have the Komplete Select libraries loaded as well. Not to confuse things even more but one can add non NKS libraries to KK as well, but that doesn't mean the S series keyboard will then see the appropriate keys or some of the other features offered by NKS. All of that integrates so well with Native Access now, and really downloading libraries from NI and installing them is so simple and 'automatic'.


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 16, 2016)

I agree it's ridiculous they got rid of purge all. Wonder if that was intentional or just a mistake.


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## playz123 (Sep 16, 2016)

Guy Rowland said:


> Frank - the reason I'm not going near 5.6 isn't the font, I think I'd be fine with that. The key colours will be annoying. But my own dealbreaker is no purge on multis. That's a standard tool for me when working on the template. Insane that they removed it.
> 
> The other reason not to install 5.6 - the lack of a single good reason TO install.


Absolutely go with what you feel is best, Guy. I believe everyone has to make their own choices re. what works for them and what doesn't, and whether they want to move to 5.6 or not. Some people are happy with it, some are not. Not an unusual situation though with any plug-in or library. Cheers.


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## playz123 (Sep 16, 2016)

DocMidi657 said:


> Does anyone know if in 5.6 it's true that you no longer have to Batch ReSave to improve loading time with commercial libraries? Noticed that as one of the 5.6 improvements listed in the documentation but have not updated yet.


Had not heard that, but certainly "Batch Resave" is still in the file menu and I can't see why they would leave it there if it wasn't useful. Also batch resave affects the Instruments in a library, not the version of Kontakt one happens to be using.


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 16, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Absolutely go with what you feel is best, Guy. I believe everyone has to make their own choices re. what works for them and what doesn't, and whether they want to move to 5.6 or not. Some people are happy with it, some are not. Not an unusual situation though with any plug-in or library. Cheers.



Indeed - I was mainly responding because you seemed perplexed why anyone would actually roll back. Seems like plenty of reasons to me...


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## kurtvanzo (Sep 16, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Hey Kurt....have a look at the bottom of the page. The freebie is called Komplete Select I believe:
> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keyboards/komplete-kontrol-s-series/
> 
> Yes, you can open NKS and some non NKS libraries in Komplete Kontrol in standalone or in your DAW...you don't need Kontakt to do that and you can open Kontakt in KK and load a Kontakt library that way. But the colored keys on the S series keyboards want to see an NKS library in KK. when you do that magic happens and pretty lights appear!  I've attached a screen shot of a Lumina patch in KK.....Kontakt not involved. It doesn't show all the Option settings etc. in KK, but should answer your question.
> ...



Thank you Frank, that does answer all my questions. Good to know it will work without komplete and NKS versions are needed for the lights and controls on the keyboard- pretty major point (really the reason to pay more for this controller) but most libraries are jumping into nks now (soundiron, project sam, cinesamples, etc.) and it all looks good. Screenshot really helped, thanks.

Didn't realize 5.6 removed the Multi purge- pretty big for me too. Saves me much time in VEPro for setting up templates, or clearing memory up after trying many patches only to go back to piano. 
Thanks for the heads up Guy.


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## synthpunk (Sep 16, 2016)

I was getting the spinning ball but then it went away literally over night. Bizarre. I guess were the the 2nd stage of beta testing. I have always thought most (not all) beta testers are there for the free updates and not for helping improve the product.



Mystic said:


> I'm having an annoying issue right now where it crashes when I try to load new patches. Anyone else getting this?


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## DocMidi657 (Sep 16, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Had not heard that, but certainly "Batch Resave" is still in the file menu and I can't see why they would leave it there if it wasn't useful. Also batch resave affects the Instruments in a library, not the version of Kontakt one happens to be using.


Thanks Frank appreciate it. If you go to NI Service Center and click on the little "I" for info on the update that's where it's listed and described in case you are curious. But I agree with you, not sure why they would still list in as a menu option if you did not need it?


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 16, 2016)

The release notes make it sound like batch resave is no longer needed to speed up load times. But you'd still want it when files get moved and it has to find them, and probably other similar situations.


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## DocMidi657 (Sep 16, 2016)

Mike Connelly said:


> The release notes make it sound like batch resave is no longer needed to speed up load times. But you'd still want it when files get moved and it has to find them, and probably other similar situations.


Thanks Mike!


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## gpax (Sep 16, 2016)

Regarding the interface, I admittedly tend to wax philosophical about GUI design choices, coming from the perspective of having a severe vision impairment. But I do not regard the discussion about text size (and to this I would add some graphics choices as well), as simply a matter of opinion or consensus: This release pushes the boundaries of visual acuity, and it asserts onto users what someone felt that threshold of tolerance and acceptability should be. It’s a problematic UX philosophy in terms of understanding even the average user’s ability with respect to known boundaries imbedded in principles of graphic and interface design.

I am not speaking of my particular needs here either in terms of options that have now been removed from Kontakt, but of others who are now providing similar feedback, with much better eyesight, for whom these changes are presenting challenges as well. If one senses they are being indulged to cope with a visual threshold (which actually can slow down workflow), that is neither an opinion or imagined. Then to have people boast about personal ability, age, and acuity, misses the point of just how exclusive some design choices still actually are.

I am more troubled that the rollout proceeded after testers voiced this concern. This notion of what constitutes a modern aesthetic is part of a broader discussion I am having at present, where small text and font choices, along with dark on darker graphics, all seem to placate a certain GUI vision of what is modern, which also includes this (sometimes misguided) perception that onscreen real estate is at a premium. Moreover, the Kontakt 5.6 interface seems at odds with other recent Native Instrument releases, including how patches and presets of any NKS Kontakt library loaded into Komplete Kontrol display amply and legibly.

After working with the 5.6 update, I realized it has now gone the same route of CAPSULE for me, as did Logic Pro X when it was released in 2013 (but where Apple actually engaged me in a discussion about how some design choices unnecessarily introduced workflow impediments, even for those with the best of eyes, resulting in modest changes since). Taking into account the diversity of GUI development perspectives, I realize these choices toward embracing the minuscule are not necessarily intentionally exclusive or meant to be a personal affront. They can, however, become profoundly impersonal in the end. And as some actually embrace the smaller/darker direction, I cannot argue with that.

BUT the Kontakt 5.6 update almost feels anti-accessibility to me, particularly when answering the question of where the larger view option went, by providing an even smaller scale and text to work with than before. Given what has been said about the beta period, there’s even an insensitivity factor I’m trying to get my head around here. But am I to understand some of these prior options may be restored?

To clarify, I am not necessarily talking about accessibility on par with adaptive technologies or other accessibility features built into a specific OS (and to politely educate here, these are often personal and private choices that should not be asserted upon, or assumed for anyone with mobility issues). I am talking about a one-point increase in the text, or a modest pixel increase in the graphics overall; none of which would compromise aesthetics. In other words, slightly bigger actually would make things more accessible, and it certainly would not plunge anyone into sudden chaos, or compromise efficiency.

On the contrary. I sat with a fellow composer yesterday and watched him interact, noting the milliseconds, and even seconds added to making selections while deciphering the smaller text and menu choices as they presently are (and as he sampled some other plugins). Again, my fear in a discussion like this is that those who feel compelled to give NI a big thumbs up here, or be potentially dismissive of others complaining about what they can or cannot see, serves to only green light Kontakt development for a GUI design that thwarts some practical, common sense considerations, and which is arguably unacceptable to some.


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## C.R. Rivera (Sep 16, 2016)

I will have to admit the font size is troubling somewhat as my own aging eyes are challenged. However,
gpax wrote "BUT the Kontakt 5.6 update almost feels anti-accessibility to me"

Since NI is a German company, are there existing EU provisions/regulations regarding the issue of accessibility (in all or any of its descriptions)?
In addition, as NI is also a trans-national, like Google, Apple, etc, and the EU is seeking to harmonize those tech companies with EU policy,
does the US or any other nation have a say in those particular "accessiiblity" issues?

Curious Cranky Carlos


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## gpax (Sep 16, 2016)

C.R. Rivera said:


> I will have to admit the font size is troubling somewhat as my own aging eyes are challenged. However,
> gpax wrote "BUT the Kontakt 5.6 update almost feels anti-accessibility to me"
> 
> Since NI is a German company, are there existing EU provisions/regulations regarding the issue of accessibility (in all or any of its descriptions)?
> ...


Hi Carlos, 

Re-reading my post, I feel compelled to emphasize that I am not making an accusation here, though a measure of calculated indifference was reported. I am of the belief there was no practical reason to push out the update until also resolving some GUI considerations, as voiced during the testing phase; I recognize also that this may be an interim release where things like text size decisions are concerned (at least I hope).


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## MA-Simon (Sep 16, 2016)

Mike Connelly said:


> I agree it's ridiculous they got rid of purge all. Wonder if that was intentional or just a mistake.


Is this true? I was just getting used to that wonderfull feature.


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## C.R. Rivera (Sep 16, 2016)

gpax said:


> Hi Carlos,
> 
> Re-reading my post, I feel compelled to emphasize that I am not making an accusation here, though a measure of calculated indifference was reported. I am of the belief there was no practical reason to push out the update until also resolving some GUI considerations, as voiced during the testing phase; I recognize also that this may be an interim release where things like text size decisions are concerned (at least I hope).



Hi gpax,

I was just thinking aloud, but, no, not seeing any accusation. However, the word "accessibility" often triggers, the US, federal, state, and local governments to enact, or, encourage, accessibility on so many levels. I have no knowledge where there is anything "actionably wrong" with the font change in the update, just considering that "the print version" of Reader's Digest helps me greatly at this age. 

Cheers

Carlos


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## brett (Sep 16, 2016)

I'm yet to update, being in the middle of a project. But of everything I've read thus far on 5.6 the lack of multi purge really got my attention. 

Really!? What purpose could there be to remove this feature?

Do you have any insight EvilD?


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## gpax (Sep 16, 2016)

C.R. Rivera said:


> Hi gpax,
> 
> I was just thinking aloud, but, no, not seeing any accusation. However, the word "accessibility" often triggers, the US, federal, state, and local governments to enact, or, encourage, accessibility on so many levels. I have no knowledge where there is anything "actionably wrong" with the font change in the update, just considering that "the print version" of Reader's Digest helps me greatly at this age.
> 
> ...


I love it! And I wasn't accusing you, of accusing me, of accusing them, but rather, in re-reading, felt my emphatic point needed just a bit more clarification. As for you wondering about standards and legality, I am less inclined to go there, as software and UI design are so infinitely subjective. But I do see both common sense and intuition about interfaces coming into play where many of these development decisions are made. I don't want to oversell my point, but someone, somewhere in the Kontakt 5.6 GUI design chain, has worked with this and determined there to be no problem. That is the problem.


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## byzantium (Sep 16, 2016)

C.R. Rivera said:


> I will have to admit the font size is troubling somewhat as my own aging eyes are challenged. However,
> gpax wrote "BUT the Kontakt 5.6 update almost feels anti-accessibility to me"
> 
> Since NI is a German company, are there existing EU provisions/regulations regarding the issue of accessibility (in all or any of its descriptions)?
> ...



I think this is a really good point - one would imagine there should be accessibility rules (or at least guidelines) pertaining - these things may not be compulsory, I don't know, but if you are a 'good' company one would surely want to adhere to them, and not be held up as not doing so... I always thought readability was very poor on Kontakt, and now as hard to believe as this is, it's actually gotten worse with 5.6, with tiny font in the file browser window. One would have to wonder what the reasons for this are, and what kind of perspective they have in their quality assurance department.


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## dannymc (Sep 16, 2016)

i just bought heavyocity vocalise and its saying my kontakt 5 is out is too old. does anyone know if i need this 5.6 update to use vocalise?

Danny


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## babylonwaves (Sep 16, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> As if you cannot rename the track in your DAW to tell you which plugin it has on. Or rename the plugin instance (in Reaper you can, at least).


that's besides the point. i rename tracks of course but if i look at the channel, i want to know which instrument is instantiated - especially in the mixer view. i rename tracks for various reasons but not to indicate which plug-in is used because i can see that anyway unless i use KK.
what i don't want to look at is a shell plug-in just to make the lights above the keyboard shine in the right color.


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## babylonwaves (Sep 16, 2016)

DocMidi657 said:


> Does anyone know if in 5.6 it's true that you no longer have to Batch ReSave to improve loading time with commercial libraries?


batch resave is still there


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## Mornats (Sep 16, 2016)

dannymc said:


> i just bought heavyocity vocalise and its saying my kontakt 5 is out is too old. does anyone know if i need this 5.6 update to use vocalise?
> 
> Danny



I was using Vocalise in Kontakt 5.5.1 and it worked fine.


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## jononotbono (Sep 16, 2016)

So, The Font size Option has been removed and I can't read anything now. The Options at top are now in a drop down menu but empty space has been left where the options originally were (meaning another mouse click every time) and now I realise the Purge All Samples button has been removed? Man seriously. Why on Earth has this happened?


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## playz123 (Sep 16, 2016)

dannymc said:


> i just bought heavyocity vocalise and its saying my kontakt 5 is out is too old. does anyone know if i need this 5.6 update to use vocalise?
> 
> Danny


Same as Mornats....have used Vocalise in 5.5 and in 5.6, so no, 5.6 is not needed.


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## skallman (Sep 16, 2016)

MA-Simon said:


> Is this true? I was just getting used to that wonderful feature.



I just loaded a patch into 5.6, and the Purge function was available, but not visible without a patch loaded. It's discussed on page 67 of the Kontakt 5 Application Reference Manual.


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 16, 2016)

What about Purge All?


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## jononotbono (Sep 16, 2016)

skallman said:


> I just loaded a patch into 5.6, and the Purge function was available, but not visible without a patch loaded. It's discussed on page 67 of the Kontakt 5 Application Reference Manual.



Where abouts man? I can't see the Purge all samples button. Only Purge individual Instruments...


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## Mystic (Sep 16, 2016)

synthpunk said:


> I was getting the spinning ball but then it went away literally over night. Bizarre. I guess were the the 2nd stage of beta testing. I have always thought most (not all) beta testers are there for the free updates and not for helping improve the product.


Yah, I'm not a fan of this unwilling beta testing. Don't release something to public unless it's been extensively tested. Even more-so if people use your application in their daily job and rely on it to work. We shouldn't have to wait weeks to make sure it's stable. It should be stable at public release and bugs checked via extensive closed (or open) beta testing. I'm not having to roll back to the previous build.


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## wpc982 (Sep 17, 2016)

C.R. Rivera said:


> I will have to admit the font size is troubling somewhat as my own aging eyes are challenged. However,
> gpax wrote "BUT the Kontakt 5.6 update almost feels anti-accessibility to me"
> 
> Since NI is a German company, are there existing EU provisions/regulations regarding the issue of accessibility (in all or any of its descriptions)?
> ...



I like the notion of suing Native Instruments under the ADA act. Accessibility has been a very real thing for a long time; sure there are abuses and exaggerations, but the underlying philosopy is very relevant: if you make a product, it should be made in such a way that people of all kinds of abilities can use it.


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## The Darris (Sep 18, 2016)

My simple thoughts. From a developer's perspective, I can see that many of the new "under the hood" features are awesome. From a user standpoint, I'm quite annoyed. 

Visually speaking, I think it's a step backward in terms of clarity. It's too damn dark and the font is a lot smaller adding extra time on my end to make sure I'm selecting what I want. Yes, I wear glasses but my corrected vision is very good.

Functionality: Why remove the global purge option and reset markers? Why remove the single click icons for the output section and hiding the library pane? Why on earth is putting everything into a drop down menu a "step forward?" These types of things hinder workflow. I am beyond peeved that they removed the purge all samples feature from the global settings. I work in a DFD environment and with multiple instruments in one instance, that feature is crucial and I know I am not the only one who uses it.


Okay, I will calm down. Sure, I am a bit emotional about this but a lot of what has happened feels like a step backwards as a user.

Best,

-C


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## mac (Sep 18, 2016)

Agree with everything said about the terrible UI. They obviously have some decent designers in-house (Form, rounds, the symphony series etc), so have them take a look at kontakt please, NI. Its 2016, and on a retina screen, this is just embarrassing.


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## zeng (Sep 18, 2016)

Well I cannot drag a library down by pressing ctrl for fast scrolling! I didn't like the fonts etc either...

Are there any people here considering rolling back to 5.5? (or rolled back?)


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## byzantium (Sep 18, 2016)

Yes, considering rolling back and wondering how to do it. I made a copy of the Kontakt 5.5.2 application in the /Applications folder before upgrading (but in any event I could retrieve it from a Time Machine backup) - I wonder is it as simple as removing the current (5.6) Kontakt application and replacing it with the previous 5.5.2 Kontakt application? Or are there other dependencies and does one have to re-install fully from somewhere else? e.g. does 5.6. change anything in the content files (nkis etc) that it may have read in the meantime, that makes it not possible (or more difficult) to roll back?


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## Vovique (Sep 18, 2016)

byzantium said:


> Yes, considering rolling back and wondering how to do it. I made a copy of the Kontakt 5.5.2 application in the /Applications folderI wonder is it as simple as removing the current (5.6) Kontakt application and replacing it with the previous 5.5.2 Kontakt application? Or are there other dependencies and does one have to re-install fully from somewhere else? e.g. does 5.6. change anything in the content files (nkis etc) that it may have read in the meantime, that makes it not possible (or more difficult) to roll back?


It's in fact as simple as rolling 5.5.2 installer over 5.6, which I did, and everything works smoothly as before. I had to roll back to be able to use Kontakt in Pro Tools 10. I suspect that 32-bit functionality on OS X has been dumped by NI, but nowhere it's clearly stated, or the specs page hasn't been properly updated yet.


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## byzantium (Sep 18, 2016)

Thanks very much Vovique. I'm not sure what you mean by 'rolling 5.5.2 installer over 5.6' though... do you have to install the old 5.5. version again somehow from NI Service Centre / Native Access (I can't see how to do that), or can I just delete / rename the current kontakt 5.6 application file in the (mac) /applications folder, and restore the old kontakt 5.5.2 application/executable file (that I had saved) in its place? Thanks again for any light you might be able to shed.


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## gpax (Sep 18, 2016)

@mac - I can't help but wonder how divided that house is. Or how tightly compartmentalized it may be. It (the Kontakt room) certainly does not seem to include persons with even modest accessibility requests. It's hard for me to comprehend that this got vetted to beta testers, third-party developers, or perhaps even fellow co-workers at NI, and yet still remained so myopic in its delivery.

@The Darris - Yes and yes on all your points. I'm all for clean, modern aesthetics, but only if it is forward thinking for actual human use. This brought me out of months-long exile from VI-C, precisely because of how crucial it is that those forces governing the software I use ninety percent of my day, for ninety percent of the tools I've invested in so heavily, with thirty-percent of my eyesight left, explain to me why they now feel micro, hyper minimal design with drop-down concessions are decidedly a step up.

I'm listening...


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## Vovique (Sep 18, 2016)

1) Download Kontakt 5.5.2 here:
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?search=kontakt
2) Run the installer!)) It's a full package, no need to have 5.5 installed. It completely replaces the new 5.6 version, and all components are back to 5.5.2.


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## mac (Sep 18, 2016)

gpax said:


> @mac - I can't help but wonder how divided that house is. Or how tightly compartmentalized it may be. It (the Kontakt room) certainly does not seem to include persons with even modest accessibility requests. It's hard for me to comprehend that this got vetted to beta testers, third-party developers, or perhaps even fellow co-workers at NI, and yet still remained so myopic in its delivery.



Yeah, I've seen it happen many times (I'm a designer and a developer in my day job). There are brilliant companies filled with brilliant people, but there'll be that one employee who makes you think 'How the hell are they working here?'.

They've usually worked there for so long, that the bosses feel like they can't tell them 'no', or let them go completely. Unfortunately, those people usually end up doing more harm than good.


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## jononotbono (Sep 18, 2016)

I've just reverted back to 5.5.2 
I can see and purge again. Bliss.


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## benatural (Sep 18, 2016)

Woah what? No purge all? I installed the update but haven't used it much, but yeah this is reason enough to uninstall until they add it back in.

My template is huge with multis everywhere, I need purge all NI!!!

But to hijack this thread and devolve it into a wish list thread, I could use a global purge all that purges all multis in all open instances of kontakt. I'll accept that as an apology for removing purge all...


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## Reactor.UK (Sep 18, 2016)

Vovique said:


> 1) Download Kontakt 5.5.2 here:
> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?search=kontakt
> 2) Run the installer!)) It's a full package, no need to have 5.5 installed. It completely replaces the new 5.6 version, and all components are back to 5.5.2.



Can I just ask... 

1. by "full package" are you referring to install file "KONTACT 5.5.2 Update - Win" (08.06.2015 - 141.2MB)?
2. I simply download this file and install over 5.6?


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## Guy Rowland (Sep 18, 2016)

benatural said:


> Woah what? No purge all?



Individual instrument purge is still there, but that's it.


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## Vovique (Sep 18, 2016)

Reactor.UK said:


> Can I just ask...
> 
> 1. by "full package" are you referring to install file "KONTACT 5.5.2 Update - Win" (08.06.2015 - 141.2MB)?
> 2. I simply download this file and install over 5.6?



Yep, I did that on Mac though, but hope this works the same way on Win. You could always uninstall 5.6 first, in case the 5.5.2 installer wouldn't let you overwrite existing installation. On Mac, it asks smth like "This update will downgrade your Kontakt to earlier version, would you like to proceed?"


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## The Darris (Sep 18, 2016)

I couldn't resist.

​


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## byzantium (Sep 18, 2016)

Thanks very much @Vovique , I didn't know this page for (older) downloads existed. Cheers.


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## jtnyc (Sep 18, 2016)

Personally I like the darker look. The dark background in the library Browser already existed. Now the File browser and quickload match. Good move as far as I'm concerned. The font size is another story. They need to bring back a larger font option immediately. The removal of the key colors is another really bad move. I'm having major difficulty following those little bits of color they put above the keyboard. And they should put the output and browser icons for single click access, and of coarse purge all...

I have submitted a ticket to NI support and encourage everyone who is not happy to do the same


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## tack (Sep 18, 2016)

I downgraded to 5.5.2 as well. I was prepared to live with the loss of larger font and Purge All, but while playing with Spitfire's new brass patches, Kontakt crashed twice on me in 5 minutes. That won't do at all.

Has anyone else seen increased crash frequency since upgrading to 5.6?


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## EvilDragon (Sep 18, 2016)

Hmm, not over here. If anything, I noticed increased stability compared to previous versions...


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## tack (Sep 18, 2016)

One of the crashes dropped a .nicrash file. I guess I could send it to NI.


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## jononotbono (Sep 18, 2016)

I didn't have any problems with stability. Just with the design changes, lack of font options and loss of Purge All. Hopefully a new update will bring it back. Personally I loved the look of the GUI of 5.6. Looked Slick.


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## jneebz (Sep 18, 2016)

Guy Rowland said:


> Individual instrument purge is still there, but that's it.


THIS. Is ridiculous. Rolling back now...thanks for the heads up, Guy.


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## jneebz (Sep 18, 2016)

Vovique said:


> 1) Download Kontakt 5.5.2 here:
> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?search=kontakt
> 2) Run the installer!)) It's a full package, no need to have 5.5 installed. It completely replaces the new 5.6 version, and all components are back to 5.5.2.




**CAUTION:* Cubase Pro won't load Kontakt 5.5.2 instruments if your project was created using v5.6.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 18, 2016)

No host will do that, in fact.


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## The Darris (Sep 18, 2016)

One performance issue I've noticed was with a private library. Crazy CPU spikes that never occurred with previous versions. They go away when I bypass all of the insert FX.


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## synthpunk (Sep 18, 2016)

Way to go beta testers~!


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## jtnyc (Sep 18, 2016)

Anyone experiencing quickload in a constant state of refreshing? The little refresh wheel is always there spinning, even after it's refreshed. My quickload menu has many levels and has taken 10 or 20 seconds to refresh in the past, but I've never seen this. Mind you, I can go into the deepest recesses of my folder structure and it's fine, it's refreshed. It's just the spinning refresh wheel is always spinning away


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## zeng (Sep 18, 2016)

If you made a batch re-save with K5.6, will K5.5 load this library?


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## jononotbono (Sep 18, 2016)

No. It's why i have all libraries on a backup drive in their original states.


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## Polarity (Sep 19, 2016)

I've not read all your posts...but for what I understood I believe I will avoid to update Kontakt to v5.6 for now.
Man, also taking out the chance to make text bigger... why they did that?


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## Lassi Tani (Sep 19, 2016)

tack said:


> I downgraded to 5.5.2 as well. I was prepared to live with the loss of larger font and Purge All, but while playing with Spitfire's new brass patches, Kontakt crashed twice on me in 5 minutes. That won't do at all.
> 
> Has anyone else seen increased crash frequency since upgrading to 5.6?



Before it was really stable, but with 5.6 a few crashes a day, during playback. Not even on a big project. I should send the crash report to NI Support.

Probably going back to earlier version. The small color dots above keys also bug me.


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## byzantium (Sep 19, 2016)

Beware - I rolled back to 5.5.2 but I was forced to re-install 5.6 again, because Kontakt 5.5.2 would not open the instruments that had previously been opened with 5.6. (via my current Logic project).


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## garyhiebner (Sep 19, 2016)

byzantium said:


> Beware - I rolled back to 5.5.2 but I was forced to re-install 5.6 again, because Kontakt 5.5.2 would not open the instruments that had previously been opened with 5.6. (via my current Logic project).



Yeah Kontakt will update I think the NI libraries, so you will only be able to open them with the latest Kontakt. It could be with other libraries as well. But from my previous experience I think it was only the NI Komplete libraries that wouldn't open if you rolled back.


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## dannymc (Sep 19, 2016)

> I was using Vocalise in Kontakt 5.5.1 and it worked fine.



this is ridiculous. first of all it seems i was sent a serial number already in use when i purchased vocalise. so heavyocity sent me a new one to use. library is activated but now i'm getting this message when i try to open up any of the patches in Kontakt 5 standalone.  anyone know what the story is? where can i get this 5.6 update anyway it doesn't seem to be in my NI service center as an update.


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## catsass (Sep 19, 2016)

jtnyc said:


> Anyone experiencing quickload in a constant state of refreshing? The little refresh wheel is always there spinning, even after it's refreshed. My quickload menu has many levels and has taken 10 or 20 seconds to refresh in the past, but I've never seen this. Mind you, I can go into the deepest recesses of my folder structure and it's fine, it's refreshed. It's just the spinning refresh wheel is always spinning away


I noticed that peculiarity as well during my brief flirtation with the vitriolic 5.6


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## Mystic (Sep 19, 2016)

Native Instruments right now:


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## EvilDragon (Sep 19, 2016)

dannymc said:


> library is activated but now i'm getting this message when i try to open up any of the patches in Kontakt 5 standalone.  anyone know what the story is?



Click on Kontakt logo there in standalone. What version number does it say?


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## stonzthro (Sep 19, 2016)

No purge all... I will never understand why companies REMOVE features.


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## catsass (Sep 19, 2016)

Mystic said:


> Native Instruments right now:



Or...


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## Lassi Tani (Sep 19, 2016)

Fourth crash today. I think I'll let Kontakt crash 100 times, or even more, and send the crash reports to NI Support. Or should I be mean, and send 1 support message a day with the crash reports I've collected. Or 1 support message per crash. Sorry, I'm just frustrated :D


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## gpax (Sep 19, 2016)

byzantium said:


> Beware - I rolled back to 5.5.2 but I was forced to re-install 5.6 again, because Kontakt 5.5.2 would not open the instruments that had previously been opened with 5.6. (via my current Logic project).


Feeling your pain, this is not necessarily unique to Kontakt, and the onus is on me, the user: some software updates will let you open retroactively, some will not. Hence the mantra about always using caution in mid-project with any update. Certainly this is something that anyone “trying out” a later update should always be aware of. Not so much a “beware,” but “be aware.”

But any project version you have not yet opened with Kontakt 5.6, will open with 5.5.2 one you’ve rolled back (as EvilDragon pointed out, this is also your DAW recognizing what has changed). Hence, even a backup or prior working copy of your project can be opened, though you may still have to meticulously export settings or make notes of everything before opening the more recent version and then re-populating each instance from scratch, unfortunately.

I should have known better, and spent the better part of an evening getting two main projects up and running again last night after rolling back to 5.5.2, where I’d made significant changes to the composition in those projects. The Kontakt instruments had not changed, just the MIDI data. In one instance, it actually forced me to clean up and refine some lingering crap I’d been putting off.


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## dannymc (Sep 19, 2016)

> Click on Kontakt logo there in standalone. What version number does it say?



version 5.4.2.245


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## mac (Sep 19, 2016)

sekkosiki said:


> Fourth crash today. I think I'll let Kontakt crash 100 times, or even more, and send the crash reports to NI Support. Or should I be mean, and send 1 support message a day with the crash reports I've collected. Or 1 support message per crash. Sorry, I'm just frustrated :D



I'd send them as they happen. It's not mean, I'm sure its really helpful to the devs 

I haven't had a single crash yet, so I feel bad for the people that are. Maybe it's a particular library. What are you all using when it happens?


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## Lassi Tani (Sep 19, 2016)

mac said:


> I'd send them as they happen. It's not mean, I'm sure its really helpful to the devs
> 
> I haven't had a single crash yet, so I feel bad for the people that are. Maybe it's a particular library. What are you all using when it happens?



I'll do that . I'm using these:

Metropolis Ark I
Albion One
Vintage D
Apocalypse Percussion
Rise&Hit
Rhapsody Percussion
Vocalise
Signal
QL Spaces
Valhalla
Fabfilter plugins


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## jtnyc (Sep 19, 2016)

Here is the response I got from the ticket I submitted to NI about the font size and key coloring

"We apologize for the delayed response to your request. Due to the high amount of incoming requests, we currently cannot achieve our desired response times. We think it's important to let you know about the current situation. We apologize any inconvenience this may have caused.
We are working on a solution for this problem. Unfortunately I cannot tell you, when we will release the fix for it. Until then, we kindly ask you for your understanding and thank you for your patience."

A good sign..... I hope


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## EvilDragon (Sep 19, 2016)

dannymc said:


> version 5.4.2.245



That's why it doesn't work. Your plugin version and standalone version are not the same. 5.5.2 was the latest version prior to 5.6.


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## The Darris (Sep 19, 2016)

jtnyc said:


> Here is the response I got from the ticket I submitted to NI about the font size and key coloring
> 
> "We apologize for the delayed response to your request. Due to the high amount of incoming requests, we currently cannot achieve our desired response times. We think it's important to let you know about the current situation. We apologize any inconvenience this may have caused.
> We are working on a solution for this problem. Unfortunately I cannot tell you, when we will release the fix for it. Until then, we kindly ask you for your understanding and thank you for your patience."
> ...



This reads like an automated post. I feel like if I told them this, I would get the same response. 

When installing the update and opening Kontakt for the first time, a portal to the upside down world opened and Barb climbed through. Once through, she started repeating the same phrase over and over again, "It's too dark in there, it's too dark!" She became hysteric and before I could do anything to help her, she finally collapsed on the floor of my studio. After that, I reverted back to the previous version of Kontakt. 

Joking aside, I doubt we will see any update in the near future with key colors, global purge, text resizing, and the rest of the list fulfilled. It will take time. 

Best,
-C


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## FinGael (Sep 19, 2016)

This doesn't sound good at all. I think I'll stick to 5.5.2 for some time.



sekkosiki said:


> The small color dots above keys also bug me.



This. I understand that NI is trying to sell their controllers, but I do think that this is not a good idea at all.

I am not fond of the idea of pushing or forcing to use something (hello Microsoft . Maybe a better way would be to value customers by giving an option, and let them decide if they want to jump in, or continue using the good old fully coloured keys for keyswitches - which I think have been working nicely.


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## mac (Sep 19, 2016)

sekkosiki said:


> I'll do that . I'm using these:
> 
> Metropolis Ark I
> Albion One
> ...



I can confirm that MA1 doesn't crash my system, so possibly it's one of the other libraries.


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## jacobthestupendous (Sep 19, 2016)

Balefire said:


> Hello everyone. I've had a few bugs with the free Player edition. All of the Single Loops patches in Heavyocity's Damage won't sync properly to the host tempo and end up all over the place. I've attached an example.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/damagetempobug-mp3.6221/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Damage sounds good, but that beep is too slow. Maybe your DAW is broken...


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## playz123 (Sep 19, 2016)

dannymc said:


> version 5.4.2.245


Yes, your version of Kontakt is too old...Vocalise was designed in 5.5. And it works well in both 5.5 and 5.6. Have you tried using Native Access yet? It will find out and show you what needs to be updated. Also, if you still have a problem after updating, you may wish to do a complete uninstall of Vocalise, including removing the Service Center xml file then reinstalling in Kontakt 5.5 or 5.6....your choice.


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## dannymc (Sep 19, 2016)

> Yes, your version of Kontakt is too old...Vocalise was designed in 5.5. And it works well in both 5.5 and 5.6. Have you tried using Native Access yet? It will find out and show you what needs to be updated. Also, if you still have a problem after updating, you may wish to do a complete uninstall of Vocalise, including removing the Service Center xml file then reinstalling in Kontakt 5.5 or 5.6....your choice.



ok so it does need an update? what is native access? whats the most straight forward way to update my kontakt to 5.5 or 5.6? 

Danny


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## jtnyc (Sep 19, 2016)

The Darris said:


> This reads like an automated post. I feel like if I told them this, I would get the same response.
> 
> Joking aside, I doubt we will see any update in the near future with key colors, global purge, text resizing, and the rest of the list fulfilled. It will take time.
> 
> ...



Yes, at least part of is defiantly automated, but they did say "we are working on the problem", which an acknowledgement of an issue. I know that could just be lip service, but I'm going to remain hopeful. I'd be curious to know how many people here who are upset with the font size etc... have submitted tickets to NI support. I would think that that would be more effective than just posting opposition here. 

I say everyone KONTAKT support - https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/requests/new


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## gpax (Sep 19, 2016)

jtnyc said:


> Yes, at least part of is defiantly automated, but they did say "we are working on the problem", which an acknowledgement of an issue. I know that could just be lip service, but I'm going to remain hopeful. I'd be curious to know how many people here who are upset with the font size etc... have submitted tickets to NI support. I would think that that would be more effective than just posting opposition here.
> 
> I say everyone KONTAKT support - https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/requests/new


I agree and done. But might I also suggest sending a note to all third-party developers you use, as all these tools are beholden to that which NI and Kontakt asserts. In part, asking those developers to also represent your concerns in their communications with Native Instruments as well.


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## newtonbach (Sep 19, 2016)

Thanks everyone, looks like I'll wait on upgrading for now


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## dannymc (Sep 19, 2016)

> Have you tried using Native Access



thanks for the heads up on native access, nice little application. sorted now and vocalise working perfectly  i kinda like the new kontakt GUI.

i cant help thinking that the whole kontakt thing is a but disjointed. it should flow a bit better. i mean you should be prompted or directed from the service center to get native access. etc.

Danny


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## playz123 (Sep 19, 2016)

dannymc said:


> thanks for the heads up on native access, nice little application. sorted now and vocalise working perfectly  i kinda like the new kontakt GUI.
> 
> i cant help thinking that the whole kontakt thing is a but disjointed. it should flow a bit better. i mean you should be prompted or directed from the service center to get native access. etc.
> 
> Danny



https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/native-access/


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## jtnyc (Sep 19, 2016)

Are there any advantages to native access over service center? Will service center cease to exist soon? I just downloaded native access and the first thing I noticed is that you can't get any info about updates like you can in service center. It looks cleaner and slicker, but it looks like they have once again removed useful functionality in an update.... or replacement app...?


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## galactic orange (Sep 19, 2016)

For one thing, Native Access only shows products sold directly by Native Instruments. On the other hand, Service Center shows all registration codes of any registered product, including 3rd party Kontakt instruments. So I would think that these products are meant to coexist for the time being. What would happen if Service Center ceased being supported?


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## playz123 (Sep 19, 2016)

Both Native Access and the Service Center are indeed meant to coexist at present, and serve slightly different purposes. Native Access makes downloading and installing NI products and those associated with Komplete a breeze. Especially useful if one also uses Komplete Konmtrol. Serial numbers for all Kontakt 'player' libraries, both from NI and other developers are available in one's NI account, and can be accessed at any time


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## Fleer (Sep 19, 2016)

As in their FAQ:
*Does Native Access replace the NI Service Center?*
The NI Service Center will continue to support older operating systems and older Native Instruments products. Products released with or after KOMPLETE 11 will be supported exclusively by Native Access.


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## jtnyc (Sep 19, 2016)

Fleer said:


> As in their FAQ:
> *Does Native Access replace the NI Service Center?*
> The NI Service Center will continue to support older operating systems and older Native Instruments products. Products released with or after KOMPLETE 11 will be supported exclusively by Native Access.



So that means we will eventually need two apps to manage our stuff. That's wonderful..... what's the point? Service center is fine. it's easy and convenient and I can see what an upgrade is all about before I download it. What does native access do that service center doesn't?


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## MoteMusic (Sep 20, 2016)

Hmmm, I hope one day one of these updates fixes the incredibly annoying issue that when I close a Kontakt instance window and no other instance is open, it freezes my Cubase for 10-15 seconds. Not this update though.

I agree with the issues over text. I have perfect eyesight, 25 years old, and it's bothering me too. I feel for you older fellows


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## dannymc (Sep 20, 2016)

> So that means we will eventually need two apps to manage our stuff. That's wonderful..... what's the point? Service center is fine. it's easy and convenient and I can see what an upgrade is all about before I download it. What does native access do that service center doesn't?



it wasn't for me. i had to go and download native access to even find my update for kontakt 5.6. but you're right just keep everything in one place. there is way too much fannying about needed just to get basic tasks done imo. 

Danny


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## byzantium (Sep 20, 2016)

jtnyc said:


> Yes, at least part of is defiantly automated, but they did say "we are working on the problem", which an acknowledgement of an issue. I know that could just be lip service, but I'm going to remain hopeful. I'd be curious to know how many people here who are upset with the font size etc... have submitted tickets to NI support. I would think that that would be more effective than just posting opposition here.
> 
> I say everyone KONTAKT support - https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/requests/new



Thanks, submitted.


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## mac (Sep 20, 2016)

Fleer said:


> As in their FAQ:
> *Does Native Access replace the NI Service Center?*
> The NI Service Center will continue to support older operating systems and older Native Instruments products. Products released with or after KOMPLETE 11 will be supported exclusively by Native Access.



They can't seriously be expecting users to keep both apps installed, just because the devs are too lazy to have native access (which is basically service centre) include all of our pre-11 kontakt libraries? Honestly, theres some absolute gold at NI, but some absolute trash there too


----------



## fgimian (Sep 20, 2016)

byzantium said:


> Thanks, submitted.



+1 also submitted a report about all the things they buggered in 5.6


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## tack (Sep 20, 2016)

The fact that the support request form provides their massive product list in an _unsorted _listbox is exceedingly obnoxious. It took me a good 90 seconds of scanning that list multiple times to find Kontakt 5 buried in the middle. I actually had to search the HTML source just to convince myself it was actually there.


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## chimuelo (Sep 20, 2016)

I upgraded on a spare DAW and messed with 5.6 and Native Access.
Works great and now upgraded all DAWs.
The best upgrade since v4 x64.
Old libraries I still use that developers have abandonned are safe and work great.

Very Happy.


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## fgimian (Sep 20, 2016)

tack said:


> The fact that the support request form provides their massive product list in an _unsorted _listbox is exceedingly obnoxious. It took me a good 90 seconds of scanning that list multiple times to find Kontakt 5 buried in the middle. I actually had to search the HTML source just to convince myself it was actually there.



Same here, it's really awful honestly. Maybe we need to submit a support request about that, hehe


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## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2016)

v3.5 was x64, chim


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## jtnyc (Sep 20, 2016)

tack said:


> The fact that the support request form provides their massive product list in an _unsorted _listbox is exceedingly obnoxious. It took me a good 90 seconds of scanning that list multiple times to find Kontakt 5 buried in the middle. I actually had to search the HTML source just to convince myself it was actually there.



Agreed, the lay out of that list is ridiculous. Next time just start typing in the name of the product and the list will filter down quickly


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## wpc982 (Sep 20, 2016)

tack said:


> The fact that the support request form provides their massive product list in an _unsorted _listbox is exceedingly obnoxious. It took me a good 90 seconds of scanning that list multiple times to find Kontakt 5 buried in the middle. I actually had to search the HTML source just to convince myself it was actually there.



Same here. It may be an attempt to encourage people to give up and NOT file a support request.


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## tack (Sep 20, 2016)

jtnyc said:


> Agreed, the lay out of that list is ridiculous. Next time just start typing in the name of the product and the list will filter down quickly


Hm, I actually did try that, but hitting 'k' didn't filter properly. I went back to the form and I can see that filtering does work sort of, but the input field doesn't quite behave like a normal input field and is quite fussy. Anyway, good to know for next time.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Sep 20, 2016)

mac said:


> They can't seriously be expecting users to keep both apps installed, just because the devs are too lazy to have native access (which is basically service centre) include all of our pre-11 kontakt libraries? Honestly, theres some absolute gold at NI, but some absolute trash there too



I've always presumed the point of Native Access is future rentals / subscriptions, in future products. It might be pretty pointless today, but I suspect there's A Plan.


----------



## playz123 (Sep 20, 2016)

Guy Rowland said:


> I've always presumed the point of Native Access is future rentals / subscriptions, in future products. It might be pretty pointless today, but I suspect there's A Plan.


Actually, I don't feel NA is pointless at all. I just finished adding 40 or more NI libraries and plug-ins back onto my Mac (fresh install of El Capitan) and the entire process was made easier and worked flawlessly because of Native Access. Then the NKS libraries were immediately recognized by Komplete Kontrol just by opening KK with nothing extra required. NA shows me which updates have been added, if any updates are available and even the libraries or plugins I have that aren't installed. So I'm very happy with it, and find it to be a very useful addition from NI.


----------



## tack (Sep 20, 2016)

On the poor keyswitch color visibility, as I stare at my illuminated Kontrol after which the new UI was based, a compromise occurred to me: there is quite a lot of color reflection off the glossy keys. It seems like NI could maintain the philosophy while appeasing those of us who struggle with the UI usability by adding a similar color reflection to the top half of the keys, that has an alpha gradient running from top to bottom.

This would keep the Kontrol vibe while making it much clearer what keys should have what color.


----------



## WindcryMusic (Sep 20, 2016)

tack said:


> On the poor keyswitch color visibility, as I stare at my illuminated Kontrol after which the new UI was based, a compromise occurred to me: there is quite a lot of color reflection off the glossy keys. It seems like NI could maintain the philosophy while appeasing those of us who struggle with the UI usability by adding a similar color reflection to the top half of the keys, that has an alpha gradient running from top to bottom.
> 
> This would keep the Kontrol vibe while making it much clearer what keys should have what color.



I like that idea! I'll confess that my first instinct was, assuming that 3rd party developers can choose any RGB color value for keys, requiring Kontakt to calculate the gradients dynamically might be too CPU intensive … but then I realized they should only need to be calculated once per color+keystyle combination, during the initial load of the instrument, and can then be saved thereafter. That seems quite doable, and like an agreeable middle ground.


----------



## samphony (Sep 20, 2016)

stonzthro said:


> No purge all... I will never understand why companies REMOVE features.



A while ago I made a feature request to allow kontakt to load samples purges by default like Kontakt 3.5 allowed it. 

https://www.native-instruments.com/...load-all-samples-purged-automatically.211993/

There must be a reason for it. (Or a logic)


----------



## Thorsten Meyer (Sep 20, 2016)

Submitted a ticket to NI as well in regards to their unreadable UI because of the font size limited to being tiny.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 21, 2016)

WindcryMusic said:


> assuming that 3rd party developers can choose any RGB color value for keys



We can't, there are only 16 fixed colors.


----------



## lumcas (Sep 21, 2016)

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but is the sticky keys issue gone?


----------



## gpax (Sep 21, 2016)

tack said:


> On the poor keyswitch color visibility, as I stare at my illuminated Kontrol after which the new UI was based, a compromise occurred to me: there is quite a lot of color reflection off the glossy keys. It seems like NI could maintain the philosophy while appeasing those of us who struggle with the UI usability by adding a similar color reflection to the top half of the keys, that has an alpha gradient running from top to bottom.
> 
> This would keep the Kontrol vibe while making it much clearer what keys should have what color.


I think that you are definitely onto something. The irony here for me is how much of a godsend the Kontrol keyboard has been in supplementing my workflow with an array of visual cues (relative to vision loss). I even sent NI a personal note last year about this. Yet the LightGuide metaphor in K5.6 fails in maintaining that symbiotic relationship between software antd hardware that I think they were hoping for (including for most not using a Kontrol keyboard). But I've quit trying to figure out what those GUI development goals were and have gone back to 5.5 for the present.

I don't fault those who like what they like about the interface. I also get the aesthetic vision here. But I also believe it's possible to make that aesthetic work and yet not take away functional and practical aspects which were not broken before, and definitely to not force the threshold of what was accessible before.


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## WindcryMusic (Sep 21, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> We can't, there are only 16 fixed colors.



Ah, I see ... interesting. Well, then Tack's proposed compromise becomes far simpler yet ... the 16 gradients can just be pre-rendered and compiled into Kontakt.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 21, 2016)

Truthfully there should just be an option for S-series keyboard coloring mode and old full key coloring mode. Let's see what 5.7 brings, I'm pretty sure NI is very aware of the backlash over this update.


----------



## playz123 (Sep 21, 2016)

Thorsten Meyer said:


> Submitted a ticket to NI as well in regards to their unreadable UI because of the font size limited to being tiny.


Definitely not "unreadable" for me. It was the previous default font that required me to zoom in every time I wanted to read something. This font doesn't require that anymore, so it's definitely been improved. Sure, the text could be larger or an option for a larger size provided, but it doesn't mean this one is as bad as some people are suggesting. Just my opinion of course.


----------



## Mike Connelly (Sep 21, 2016)

And if they're going to bring back an option for the old key coloring mode, they should update they way colors are showed over black keys. Superimposing a color over black just doesn't work.


----------



## catsass (Sep 21, 2016)

Coming Soon!
Native Instruments Kontakt Lenses*™*


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## mickeyl (Sep 21, 2016)

lumcas said:


> Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but is the sticky keys issue gone?


No, still there when using certain kinds of legato patches.


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## jtnyc (Sep 21, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Definitely not "unreadable" for me. It was the previous default font that required me to zoom in every time I wanted to read something. This font doesn't require that anymore, so it's definitely been improved. Sure, the text could be larger or an option for a larger size provided, but it doesn't mean this one is as bad as some people are suggesting. Just my opinion of course.



Improved for you. For those of us who have relied on larger font for years, it is as bad as we are suggesting. The font is now way smaller than what it was for us, therefore this is a major problem. It's a totally subjective issue and not really a matter of opinion.....


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## EvilDragon (Sep 21, 2016)

playz123 said:


> It was the previous default font that required me to zoom in every time I wanted to read something. This font doesn't require that anymore, so it's definitely been improved.



Nope, it's the same old default font (font option "small"). Case in point (count pixels if you want to):






What's different is contrast.


----------



## gpax (Sep 21, 2016)

catsass said:


> Coming Soon!
> Native Instruments Kontakt Lenses*™*


How rare that I laugh out loud reading a post. But you made me do it!


----------



## gpax (Sep 21, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Truthfully there should just be an option for S-series keyboard coloring mode and old full key coloring mode. Let's see what 5.7 brings, I'm pretty sure NI is very aware of the backlash over this update.


And I'm more than sure this brings a huge sigh of relief, as well as hope. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 21, 2016)

Just bear in mind that even if I said _should_ doesn't mean there _will_... It's just an idea. Hopefully one NI will take into account.


----------



## playz123 (Sep 21, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Nope, it's the same old default font (font option "small"). Case in point (count pixels if you want to):
> 
> What's different is contrast.


Fair enough, but my point is not the font itself, but that it's definitely easier for me to read now. There's no disputing that.


----------



## Mystic (Sep 21, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Truthfully there should just be an option for S-series keyboard coloring mode and old full key coloring mode. Let's see what 5.7 brings, I'm pretty sure NI is very aware of the backlash over this update.


Dunno, judging by how NI has "listened" to people in the past, I have a feeling they will disregard everyones complaints and the next update we will see will end up being Kontakt 6. :\


----------



## Lassi Tani (Sep 21, 2016)

I'm not sure, if it's the update, but I get a strange freeze in Cubase 8.5 Pro, when the project is loading. Before the update, the same project loaded fast, but now I have to wait until everything is loaded into RAM.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 21, 2016)

Mystic said:


> I have a feeling they will disregard everyones complaints and the next update we will see will end up being Kontakt 6. :\



That is not going to be the case. And this is as much as I can say. v5 is going to stick around for a bit more.


----------



## byzantium (Sep 21, 2016)

tack said:


> The fact that the support request form provides their massive product list in an _unsorted _listbox is exceedingly obnoxious. It took me a good 90 seconds of scanning that list multiple times to find Kontakt 5 buried in the middle. I actually had to search the HTML source just to convince myself it was actually there.



Yes I couldn't believe this either, very shoddy for a software company (would seem to me to indicate a QA team is not being employed on this). 

However, I discovered you can actually search that extremely long and unsorted drop-down list of products by typing in part of the name, and it will narrow down the list for you. But this was a lucky guess, and one shouldn't have to know or do this. (And also searching like this doesn't seem to work in all the drop-downs for some reason). 

So for anyone entering a support ticket for 5.6., if you type in 'Kontakt' in the product drop-down list, it will give you a couple of versions to choose from - otherwise it is an extremely difficult task to find 'Kontakt 5' (I think it was), buried randomly in a what seems like a never-ending random list. 

Even if you manage to find one Kontakt version by scrolling, you won't find the others because they are not listed together (unless you search).


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## The Darris (Sep 21, 2016)

catsass said:


> Coming Soon!
> Native Instruments Kontakt Lenses*™*


Does it come with their proprietary Kleaner?


----------



## gpax (Sep 21, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Just bear in mind that even if I said _should_ doesn't mean there _will_... It's just an idea. Hopefully one NI will take into account.


Duly noted, as your posts are always carefully worded and insightful.


----------



## fgimian (Sep 21, 2016)

lumcas said:


> Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but is the sticky keys issue gone?



Assuming you mean how keys stick on the keyboard shown on the Kontakt interface, the answer is nope. They are sticking just as badly as they were before.

I'm a little surprised this bug is even present in the first place, it should be super easy to catch during beta, let alone throughout versions.


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## owenave (Sep 21, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Actually, I don't feel NA is pointless at all. I just finished adding 40 or more NI libraries and plug-ins back onto my Mac (fresh install of El Capitan) and the entire process was made easier and worked flawlessly because of Native Access. Then the NKS libraries were immediately recognized by Komplete Kontrol just by opening KK with nothing extra required. NA shows me which updates have been added, if any updates are available and even the libraries or plugins I have that aren't installed. So I'm very happy with it, and find it to be a very useful addition from NI.


I sense you set up your new drive with installs for every thing else besides NI. Did you use carbon copy to move your other installs?


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## playz123 (Sep 21, 2016)

owenave said:


> I sense you set up your new drive with installs for every thing else besides NI. Did you use carbon copy to move your other installs?


A total reinstall of everything was done and no cloning used at all. That included my DAW, plugins and libraries, both Kontakt related or not. I did clone my previous Mavericks drive via SuperDuper, and also ran Time Machine, but fortunately neither of those backups were needed. It was interesting to note that a few libraries actually seemed to look and run better on the new system, even though I'd used the same installers previously. I also found updates for a few things that I wasn't aware of before.


----------



## owenave (Sep 21, 2016)

playz123 said:


> A total reinstall of everything was done and no cloning used at all. That included my DAW, plugins and libraries, both Kontakt related or not. I did clone my previous Mavericks drive via SuperDuper, and also ran Time Machine, but fortunately neither of those backups were needed. It was interesting to note that a few libraries actually seemed to look and run better on the new system, even though I'd used the same installers previously. I also found updates for a few things that I wasn't aware of before.


Thanks, I need to switch my boot drive for my MBP to a SSD. I have put if off for several months. I got so much stuff on here I will have a lot of work to find all the installers.


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## playz123 (Sep 21, 2016)

I should also mention for clarity that all the samples for my libraries are on SSDs, so I didn't have to reinstall them of course. It would have taken a month if I'd had to do that.  All the best with your reinstall.


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## owenave (Sep 21, 2016)

playz123 said:


> I should also mention for clarity that all the samples for my libraries are on SSDs, so I didn't have to reinstall them of course. It would have taken a month if I'd had to do that.  All the best with your reinstall.


This computer is not my main Daw This is my Internet computer a MBP I also have some Kontakt Instruments and have Vep5 Got 6. I got a 500 gb SSD 950 for it. The boot drive I am taking out is only a 250 gb HD and is stuffed.


----------



## mrd777 (Sep 21, 2016)

It says I'm on Kontakt 5.6 but nothing looks new. I think my upgrade is broken...


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 22, 2016)

fgimian said:


> I'm a little surprised this bug is even present in the first place, it should be super easy to catch during beta, let alone throughout versions.



The thing with that bug is that it cannot be changed without breaking a lot of other stuff. So the onus is on the developer to update the library with proper virtual keyboard fixes by using set_key_pressed() commands in appropriate places.


----------



## lumcas (Sep 22, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> The thing with that bug is that it cannot be changed without breaking a lot of other stuff. So the onus is on the developer to update the library with proper virtual keyboard fixes by using set_key_pressed() commands in appropriate places.



Thanks for the explanation ED.


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## procreative (Sep 22, 2016)

owenave said:


> Thanks, I need to switch my boot drive for my MBP to a SSD. I have put if off for several months. I got so much stuff on here I will have a lot of work to find all the installers.



Why don't you use Carbon Copy Cloner to clone your disk https://bombich.com I use this all the time. In fact its what I used to clone my Macbook disc onto an SSD. You just need another way to mount both discs, I used my Mac Pro and put both discs into the caddys, but I expect 2 external drives would do the job.

I also do this when I jump OS, as a safety when I recently went to El Capitan I made a clone of my Mavericks drive just in case it did not work out so I had something to go back to (also this helps get round the issue of older software not installing in newer OS as I have software that is "not supported" but runs fine on an upgraded OS but would not install in El Capitan if from scratch).


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## Thorsten Meyer (Sep 22, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Definitely not "unreadable" for me. It was the previous default font that required me to zoom in every time I wanted to read something. This font doesn't require that anymore, so it's definitely been improved. Sure, the text could be larger or an option for a larger size provided, but it doesn't mean this one is as bad as some people are suggesting. Just my opinion of course.



Just to hard to read for me on my 5K Monitor.


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## macmac (Sep 22, 2016)

Thorsten Meyer said:


> Just to hard to read for me on my 5K Monitor.



It's hard to read on my 30" too...tiny text.


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## jtnyc (Sep 22, 2016)

Thorsten Meyer said:


> Just to hard to read for me on my 5K Monitor.



Please submit a ticket - https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/requests/new


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## paoling (Sep 24, 2016)

I've read some of the complaints about the small text, but I'm missing something. Compariing the font size of Kontakt 5.6 with the font size of the previous versions it seems to me the very same font of the very same size. Sure the new interface it's a bit more criptic expecially with the no-text icons, but beside that I find it cleaner and nice (also it's quite sad that the internal GUI is the same thing till Kontakt 2.0). I am missing something?


----------



## Ashermusic (Sep 24, 2016)

paoling said:


> I've read some of the complaints about the small text, but I'm missing something. Compariing the font size of Kontakt 5.6 with the font size of the previous versions it seems to me the very same font of the very same size. Sure the new interface it's a bit more criptic expecially with the no-text icons, but beside that I find it cleaner and nice (also it's quite sad that the internal GUI is the same thing till Kontakt 2.0). I am missing something?




In the previous version, there is a larger font option.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Sep 24, 2016)

Well, I just installed this and right away I was pleased with the reduced CPU load. The multis on Cinematic Guitars 2 took up a MASSIVE amount of my computers' resources, and the improvement is very noticeable to me, no problem since. Right off, that has me smiling


----------



## JFB (Sep 26, 2016)

Setting a lower Max:# of voices appears broken in Kontakt 5.6. Had to revert back to 5.5.2 and it's working again. Anyone else? It's the same on both Windows 7 and El Capitan.


----------



## byzantium (Sep 27, 2016)

FYI This is probably old news but I did get a return support message from NI saying that they are working on a fix for the font size and key colours problem. 

In writing this, I noticed the post above from JFB - if setting the max no of voices does not work in 5.6 (haven't tested it yet) that would be a much bigger problem, and hopefully that has been submitted as a bug to NI.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 27, 2016)

Setting max voices works just fine over here.


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## bill45 (Sep 27, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> Well, I just installed this and right away I was pleased with the reduced CPU load. The multis on Cinematic Guitars 2 took up a MASSIVE amount of my computers' resources, and the improvement is very noticeable to me, no problem since. Right off, that has me smiling


Are you using mac or pc?


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## JFB (Sep 28, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Setting max voices works just fine over here.



I tried reinstalling just in case I did something dumb like forgetting to hit "enter" after changing Max Voices. I've attached two pics. The strange thing is on the pic where it shows Voices: 31 Max: 3, Kontakt was self-limiting to 31 voices when instantiated as the only instrument in a VEP6 server instance. The pic that shows Voices: 126 Max: 3 was the same patch in my full VEP6 template and Kontakt didn't do any voice limiting. I have no idea how to account for this, but it is happening over here.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 28, 2016)

Weird, I don't get that here at all.


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## Parsifal666 (Sep 28, 2016)

bill45 said:


> Are you using mac or pc?



PC. There are still problems (I continue seeing the modulation options of Kontakt as inferior to the classic Camel Alchemy, and am grateful that I held onto the latter).

I see Kontakt as I do Play: problems, but when it's working well it's terrific.


----------



## jacobthestupendous (Sep 28, 2016)

http://xkcd.com/1739/


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## Gabriel Oliveira (Sep 28, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> I see Kontakt as I do Play:



you need glasses


----------



## Parsifal666 (Sep 28, 2016)

Gabriel Oliveira said:


> you need glasses



lol!


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## Parsifal666 (Sep 28, 2016)

Gabriel Oliveira said:


> you need glasses



I specified the context I meant. But that made me laugh.


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## bill45 (Sep 28, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> PC. There are still problems (I continue seeing the modulation options of Kontakt as inferior to the classic Camel Alchemy, and am grateful that I held onto the latter).
> 
> I see Kontakt as I do Play: problems, but when it's working well it's terrific.


Thank, I use a PC,Lower cpu is welcome! cubase 8.5 asio guard 2 help as well.


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## Kaufmanmoon (Sep 29, 2016)

I'm having a problem with the 32 max voices being at default. I've never really had to even look at this option before since I stopped using ex24. What should it be set to? (So I know what to look out for and amend) 128?


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## Kaufmanmoon (Sep 29, 2016)

JFB said:


> Setting a lower Max:# of voices appears broken in Kontakt 5.6. Had to revert back to 5.5.2 and it's working again. Anyone else? It's the same on both Windows 7 and El Capitan.



Yep same here on mine


----------



## Soundhound (Sep 30, 2016)

Are there buttons (to be unhidden perhaps?) for Keyboard, Quickload etc? All I've been able to find is the dropdown menu with checking/unchecking. Not fantastic.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 30, 2016)

You can use F-key shortcuts in standalone. But other than that, no, it's all in the dropdown now.


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## jtnyc (Oct 6, 2016)

Is anyone experiencing really long wait times when opening the Kontakt window? I'm getting the spinning wheel for up to 20 seconds before the window opens. Load times for instruments is really bad as well. Stuff is taking forever to load. So bummed.


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## EvilDragon (Oct 10, 2016)

Kontakt 5.6.1. available in SC/NA with font fix and some others (max voice limit fix too). Go go go!


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## tack (Oct 10, 2016)

Still no global purge all though, from what I can see. Key colors same as 5.6 as well.

I can live with it as long as it doesn't crash on me.


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## Russell Moran (Oct 10, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Kontakt 5.6.1. available in SC/NA with font fix and some others (max voice limit fix too). Go go go!



No, the font size issue is not fixed!

rz


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 10, 2016)

It is. The font size has been increased in Kontakt's left side browser. Compared to 5.6 and previous versions (when using "Large" font option), the font is 1 px smaller than "Large" option, but it applies to all tabs on the left side (Files, Database, Expert, Automation), which was not the case previously (Database and Automation had the small font).


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## NYC Composer (Oct 10, 2016)

Yanno, a "we messed up, mea culpa, we're sorry, fixes coming soon, we're working on it, sorry sorry!" message across the forums would make so much sense. I wonder why we don't see something of the sort.


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## EvilDragon (Oct 10, 2016)

Yeah that doesn't sound like NI.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 10, 2016)

tack said:


> Still no global purge all though, from what I can see. Key colors same as 5.6 as well.



Still no reason to update from 5.5x. Wake me when these things are sorted.


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## NYC Composer (Oct 10, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Yeah that doesn't sound like NI.


I agree. On the other hand, it doesn't sound like any major company these days, unless of course their products actually killed someone and there's huge liability.


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## fgimian (Oct 10, 2016)

I'm gonna grab the update now and give it a gander


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## fgimian (Oct 10, 2016)

The font has definition been made larger everywhere and I think it helps greatly (see below). It does looks a tad cluttered now though, I would have added a pinch more vertical space too much still, that's no biggy.

5.6.0






5.6.1


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## gpax (Oct 10, 2016)

fgimian said:


> The font has definition been made larger everywhere and I think it helps greatly (see below). It does looks a tad cluttered now though, I would have added a pinch more vertical space too much still, that's no biggy.
> 
> 5.6.0
> 
> ...


Was just literally about to post a request for this. Thanks! Well, it's definitely a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 10, 2016)

One thing I've noticed with 5.6 is that my scrolling is mucked up. It might seem like a minor thing (and I guess it is) but it's messing with my head and workflow. Its behaviour is inconsistent and I don't remember having the same issue in 5.5.x
Specifically - trying to scroll through libraries, file trees or instrument patches and it won't scroll unless I open a list of library instruments and click somewhere on it. Meanwhile over in the right pane, I need to click on the patch title in order to activate scrolling. 

Has anyone else encountered this or am I the lucky one?


----------



## macmac (Oct 10, 2016)

Is there a special step /pref to horizontally enlarge the whole GUI? Mine was ok then I inadvertently clicked the reset size in prefs, and now when I try to stretch horizontally from the bottom corner, it only will enlarge vertically. So my window is always tall and narrow. Definitely not like the pics above.


----------



## tack (Oct 10, 2016)

Two more crashes in the past two hours -- once while saving my project, and another while changing buffer settings in a Kontakt instance. Well, not crashes as such, but my DAW process hung until killed.

I also had problems streaming samples. I normally run fully purged, which hasn't been an issue, but I am getting a lot of note dropouts with 5.6.

Now as I try to downgrade using the same installer I previously used to downgrade, it refuses, saying a full version of Kontakt 5 is found. When I try to download a new copy of the installer from my account, it just directs me to Native Access which only allows installation of the latest version, from what I can tell.

Feels to me like 5.6 is real lemon.


----------



## Soundhound (Oct 10, 2016)

I upgraded by mistake (doh!) while updating a bunch of NI instruments a couple of weeks ago. Anyone been able to go back to 5.5.2? (i think that was the latest i was using before 5.6) If so, how?

I'm getting some crashes, weird behavior and midi timeouts which I used to get when I was having some Kontakt problems several revs ago.






tack said:


> Two more crashes in the past two hours -- once while saving my project, and another while changing buffer settings in a Kontakt instance. Well, not crashes as such, but my DAW process hung until killed.
> 
> I also had problems streaming samples. I normally run fully purged, which hasn't been an issue, but I am getting a lot of note dropouts with 5.6.
> 
> ...


----------



## wbacer (Oct 10, 2016)

I was just about ready to give it all up and sell everything. VEPro 6 crashed about every 2 minutes, every time I selected a VEPro / Kontakt track in Logic, the instrument would give a short loud blast and a dozen other tracks would play in unison, ARTzID would no longer work. The whole thing was a total disaster.

Before I updated to Kontakt 5.6.0 and VEPro 6 everything flowed like honey. So to solve the problem, I was going to revert back to Kontakt 5.5x and VEPro 5. Logged in to Native Access, found Kontakt 5.6.1 so before doing anything else, I gave it a try.
Hallelujah, it's a miracle. 

All of the above problems just disappeared. Still using VEPro 6 with no problems and no crashes...yet...fingers and toes crossed.
Anyone else notice any difference with Kontakt 5.6.1?


----------



## kavinsky (Oct 10, 2016)

still no way to filter/sort libraries which is a bummer, 
I get it, it's time for a facelift, but.. no purge all? what? why?


----------



## Reactor.UK (Oct 10, 2016)

Soundhound said:


> Anyone been able to go back to 5.5.2?


Download the 5.5.2 update... install (it will ask you if you want to downgrade)... done.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?search=kontakt


----------



## Soundhound (Oct 10, 2016)

Thanks! Just found this deep in my archives, should do the trick? I couldn't find the older versions on the NI site, in my account or otherwise...

Kontakt_5_552880U_Mac - 172.4 mg


----------



## jtnyc (Oct 10, 2016)

Loading times in 5.6.1 are much better for me. They did improve the default font, but I feel like it's still smaller than the large option was before. I can deal with it I guess, but still wish they would offer a larger option.


----------



## Guy Rowland (Oct 11, 2016)

Just remember than when rolling back you won't be able to open any projects that used 5.6.x in 5.5.x. Those of us holding out are still wise to hold out imo. The font issue has fixed just one of the three big flaws, with (for me) the lack of Purge All being the most serious and the silly light guides being next.


----------



## Soundhound (Oct 11, 2016)

Ah, thanks for the reminder! 5.6 so far seems a pretty sketchy update, with some minor annoyances. For example, no buttons for keyboard/quickload? why? Less clutter? This gui design was never going to win any Steve Jobs awards anyway. 

But none of that matters if things are crashing. It's back to 5.5.2 for me I'm afraid. If I can do it. If I go in and save instruments in 5.6 (in projects I've been doing since 5.6) can they be opened in 5.5.2 I wonder? 




Guy Rowland said:


> Just remember than when rolling back you won't be able to open any projects that used 5.6.x in 5.5.x. Those of us holding out are still wise to hold out imo. The font issue has fixed just one of the three big flaws, with (for me) the lack of Purge All being the most serious and the silly light guides being next.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 11, 2016)

Right click in the rack area to open quickload.


----------



## playz123 (Oct 11, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Right click in the rack area to open quickload.


I, for one, have always opened it that way....sometimes even by mistake. 

As for the rest, agree with Guy about purge, but not some of the other comments in this thread. Quite happy with the light guides and the fonts. And Kontakt 5.6 has performed extremely well since I started using it last month...not even one crash. Quite happy with it, and will wait for improvements in purge, which I hope will come soon. My personal opinion remains: it's not the evil update that some have described, but yes it can be improved.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 11, 2016)

Re the light guides, it's obviously all a matter of personal preference but, I really don't mind it. I don't use an NI keyboard. I don't have any trouble (no different from old coloured keys) seeing where key switches are or instrument ranges. In fact, and this is where it gets down to personal preference I actually find it better. Maybe that's just me. Understand if some folk don't like it. 

Other issues are perhaps more significant and could perhaps justify holding off on upgrade for immediate future.


----------



## catsass (Oct 11, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Quite happy with the light guides


Out of curiosity, would you be happy with the new light guides if you didn't own a Komplete Kontrol keyboard?


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 11, 2016)

catsass said:


> Out of curiosity, would you be happy with the new light guides if you didn't own a Komplete Kontrol keyboard?


My post just beat your query but, yeah. I don't have komplete kontrol keyboard. No light up keys of any sort and it's one change that I quite like.


----------



## EvilDragon (Oct 11, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Understand if some folk don't like it.



The matter of the fact is that with those lightguides being 2 px tall it has become very hard to discern nearby color hues, much moreso than it was the case previously.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Oct 11, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> The matter of the fact is that with those lightguides being 2 px tall it has become very hard to discern nearby color hues, much moreso than it was the case previously.


Sure. My eyes are far from the best. I've worn glasses my entire life but I don't mind the colour guide change. I haven't had a problem with it yet. Just my opinion on the matter. As above, I think other issues are perhaps more significant.

In case my post was unclear I meant, I understand if some folk don't like it.


----------



## catsass (Oct 11, 2016)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Sure. My eyes are far from the best. I've worn glasses my entire life but I don't mind the colour guide change. I haven't had a problem with it yet. Just my opinion on the matter. As above, I think other issues are perhaps more significant.
> In case my post was unclear I meant, I understand if some folk don't like it.



As I mentioned previously in this thread, the forthcoming Native Instruments Kontakt Lenses*™ *should help.


----------



## benatural (Oct 11, 2016)

Reactor.UK said:


> Download the 5.5.2 update... install (it will ask you if you want to downgrade)... done.
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?search=kontakt


This didn't work for me for some reason, got some error about having the full version of kontakt installed. Tried a few times with previous versions. The installer finishes but nothing actually changes and 5.6.1 is still installed


----------



## Mike Connelly (Oct 11, 2016)

So no fix yet for purge all?


----------



## playz123 (Oct 11, 2016)

catsass said:


> Out of curiosity, would you be happy with the new light guides if you didn't own a Komplete Kontrol keyboard?


Yes I would. I don't use Komplete Kontrol all the time, so I don't consider my keyboard a major factor when offering my opinion. Basically I also concur with what SoNowWhat? mentioned above as well. In brief, I guess my only 'concern' is the purge function; no complaints about the rest. I can see the light guides and the text, even though I have 'old' eyes. But I also can understand that some people are hoping for a return to colored keys, even if I am not.


----------



## Ashermusic (Oct 11, 2016)

5.6.1 is a _lot_ more readable here, so kudos to N.I. for resolving that issue expeditiously.


----------



## wcreed51 (Oct 11, 2016)

You need to use Native Access to do the update. That works.


----------



## Soundhound (Oct 11, 2016)

Has anyone who has been experiencing crashes with 5.6 updated to 5.6.1 yet? And if so have you been able to see any improvement there?


----------



## wbacer (Oct 11, 2016)

Soundhound said:


> Has anyone who has been experiencing crashes with 5.6 updated to 5.6.1 yet? And if so have you been able to see any improvement there?


5.6 crashed all day long
5.6.1 hasn't crashed yet...


----------



## tack (Oct 11, 2016)

Soundhound said:


> Has anyone who has been experiencing crashes with 5.6 updated to 5.6.1 yet? And if so have you been able to see any improvement there?


Meanwhile I had 5.6.1 crash/freeze on me twice in as many hours, which is about as long as I made it with 5.6 before I downgraded.


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## catsass (Oct 11, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Yes I would. I don't use Komplete Kontrol all the time, so I don't consider my keyboard a major factor when offering my opinion. Basically I also concur with what SoNowWhat? mentioned above as well. In brief, I guess my only 'concern' is the purge function; no complaints about the rest. I can see the light guides and the text, even though I have 'old' eyes. But I also can understand that some people are hoping for a return to colored keys, even if I am not.


Thanks for your always appreciated input, Frank! I did try to roll with the light guide revision in 5.6, and thought I would get used to the change. But being mid-project, and using a library with extensive keyswitching, I quickly became frustrated and surrendered myself to the comfort of 5.5.2.


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## Soundhound (Oct 11, 2016)

Whoever you are, I owe you a beer or whatever your favorite drink is. Thank you!



EvilDragon said:


> Right click in the rack area to open quickload.


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## Soundhound (Oct 11, 2016)

<sigh>



tack said:


> Meanwhile I had 5.6.1 crash/freeze on me twice in as many hours, which is about as long as I made it with 5.6 before I downgraded.


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## novaburst (Oct 11, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> pleased with the reduced CPU load.


Am I missing something seems the same over here,


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## milliontown (Oct 11, 2016)

5.6.1 refusing to install here - _"installation is not possible since the full version is found on this computer..."_


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## EvilDragon (Oct 11, 2016)

Use Native Access to update.


Not a single crash in 5.6.1 here, ever since it hit beta...


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## Soundhound (Oct 11, 2016)

Did you have any crashes with 5.6?



EvilDragon said:


> Use Native Access to update.
> 
> 
> Not a single crash in 5.6.1 here, ever since it hit beta...


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## synthpunk (Oct 11, 2016)

Mac as well Mario, anybody ?



EvilDragon said:


> Not a single crash in 5.6.1 here, ever since it hit beta...


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## milliontown (Oct 11, 2016)

Yes, that worked - thanks.




EvilDragon said:


> Use Native Access to update.
> 
> 
> Not a single crash in 5.6.1 here, ever since it hit beta...


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## EvilDragon (Oct 11, 2016)

synthpunk said:


> Mac as well Mario, anybody ?



I only run Windows.


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## macmac (Oct 11, 2016)

Is there a limit as to how wide the Kontakt window can be? For some reason it will only stretch tall and narrow, not wider. Could be because I'm using a larger monitor now and perhaps seeing a more noticeable limitation that I didn't have before when my monitor was smaller. But the screen shot several posts back show a much wider GUI than what I can muster here.


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## playz123 (Oct 11, 2016)

synthpunk said:


> Mac as well Mario, anybody ?


Yes, use it (if your question was about using Native Access). No crashes here either.


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## synthpunk (Oct 11, 2016)

TX, actually meant 5.6.1 Kontakt on Mac (El Capitan).



playz123 said:


> Yes, use it (if your question was about using Native Access). No crashes here either.


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## playz123 (Oct 11, 2016)

That's exactly what I am using. (Mac Pro 2014, El Capitan, Kontakt 5.6.1).


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## jcrosby (Oct 11, 2016)

I've been keeping an eye on this thread and have been holding off on updating as a result, still running 5.5.2. My only concern now is purge all. Does it appear that this is still missing or did they resolve this in 5.6.1?


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## Soundhound (Oct 11, 2016)

I just updated to 5.6.1 instead of going back to 5.5.2. And I'm in the middle of a job due Friday. Nice knowing' ya.


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## Fleer (Oct 11, 2016)

playz123 said:


> That's exactly what I am using. (Mac Pro 2014, El Capitan, Kontakt 5.6.1).


Same here, but MacBook Pro i7 2.6. 
All's well.


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## novaburst (Oct 11, 2016)

playz123 said:


> Actually, I don't feel NA is pointless at all. I just finished adding 40 or more NI libraries and plug-ins back onto my Mac


I am a bit weary of NA, I don't like the idea that it automatically starts to install the update after its down loaded, 

Also don't like the idea that in some strange way the service center fails to install some software, forcing you to use NA.

At least the service center gave you a option if you wanted to install or not.

Having the cloud NA leads me to believe that the service centers days are numbered


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## alanb (Oct 11, 2016)

alanb said:


> Removing the kolors from the keys themselves and substituting those minuskule little kolor dots above the keys is not only one of the dumbest and most kounter-productive graphikal khoices that any kompany has ever made to their user interface, but it is one of the most obnoxious possible turns, rendering every library that uses keyswitches astonishingly more diffikult to use.
> 
> Every single person who proposed, approved and implemented that kockeyed khange to such a kritikal komponent should be immediately kanned.
> 
> ...



https://www.native-instruments.com/...y-switch-colouring.309216/page-6#post-1538045


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## Soundhound (Oct 11, 2016)

Anybody know how to open and close the browser with key commands?


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## EvilDragon (Oct 11, 2016)

F1. Works only in standalone.

List of all keyboard shortcuts is in the manual. Please read it.


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## Guy Rowland (Oct 12, 2016)

jcrosby said:


> I've been keeping an eye on this thread and have been holding off on updating as a result, still running 5.5.2. My only concern now is purge all. Does it appear that this is still missing or did they resolve this in 5.6.1?



Still missing. No word AFAIK from NI as to whether or not it will ever be restored.


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## babylonwaves (Oct 12, 2016)

novaburst said:


> I am a bit weary of NA, I don't like the idea that it automatically starts to install the update after its down loaded,


maybe i miss something obvious here but why is this a problem? just download the component when you _want_ to update it and all is fine. NA doesn't force you to download anything.


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## Soundhound (Oct 12, 2016)

Yes sir, right away sir! What time is revellie sir?



EvilDragon said:


> F1. Works only in standalone.
> 
> List of all keyboard shortcuts is in the manual. Please read it.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 12, 2016)

Anyone with any software who has no read the manual deserves anything that happen to them


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## Soundhound (Oct 12, 2016)

Such a nice guy! Thanks Jay.



Ashermusic said:


> Anyone with any software who has no read the manual deserves anything that happen to them


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## Ashermusic (Oct 12, 2016)

Soundhound said:


> Such a nice guy! Thanks Jay.




Just kidding, Soundhound.


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## Soundhound (Oct 12, 2016)

I know. Me too. My sense of humor is as dry as yours, gets me into all kinds of trouble and fun.


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## catsass (Oct 12, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> Anyone with any software who has no read the manual deserves anything that happen to them


Although I am not a fan of Manual Labor, i do realize it's often a necessary evil.


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## novaburst (Oct 12, 2016)

babylonwaves said:


> maybe i miss something obvious here but why is this a problem? just download the component when you _want_ to update


Yes I suppose your right, I will need to be very sure this time, as with the service center I down loaded and then changed my mind and left it in the service center, 

But I guess you just need to be sure when you down load or just pull the cable out as this is the only option to stop it if you ever change your mind.


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## jcrosby (Oct 12, 2016)

Guy Rowland said:


> Still missing. No word AFAIK from NI as to whether or not it will ever be restored.



Thanks Guy, much appreciated... Why they nuked this feature makes no sense, let's hope it shows up again in an update... Until then someone needs to be permanently re-assigned to a desk in the boiler room.


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## Reaktor (Oct 24, 2016)

Just dropping a notice for anyone thinking of updating from 5.5 to 5.6 . I'v been having trouble with Kontakt 5.6 on Morphestra 2 and Dronar Guitarscapes. I sent following mail to Sample Logic and Native Instruments as well.

_"I'm having trouble with Morphestra 2, which is
currently very prone to freezing. 

I'm running Kontakt 5.6.1 (should be the latest?)
and most of the time when I try to switch
instrument preset *before* current instrument has
finished playing all the samples (Samples hits
"0") one of the following happens:
1) DAW will get stuck with static noise (FL Studio
12.3)
2) Only Morphestra 2 freezes, Kontakt instance
becomes silent & unstable. I'm able to "wake"
other instruments within instance, but not
Morphestra 2 . UI updates, but sound doesn't come
out until Morphestra instance has been removed and
reloaded. (CUBASE PRO 8.5)

These problems are not DAW related, as I'm able to
make it happen on Kontakt Standalone, FL STUDIO
12.3 and Cubase Pro 8.5. Hitting panic-button
fixes this, but it messes up all the other
instrument presets as well, so it's not really a
fix.

Usually just before the freezing happens there is
a hit of previously loaded sample playing with
louder velocity with "clipping / popping sound",
which after makes Kontakt instance silent.

About a week ago Time+Space Dronar Guitarscapes
was having very similar issues. I contacted the
creator, Dan Graham, via Facebook and he supplied
me with new presets, which fixed this issue. Few
days ago the official Dronar Guitarscapes 1.1
updated was released, which fixed this issue for
other users as well, so this is most likely
Kontakt 5.6 issue. As for now I'm having really
hard time using Morphestra 2 at all. Could you
take look at this? 

I'm sending this same message for Native
Instruments as well, as they should be aware of
the problem as well. I'll be happy to give you
additional details."_

I got an answer from Sample Logic written by Keith:

_"This is a known bug in the latest version of Kontakt 5.6.1 that they are working on as week speak."
_
So, in short, stick with 5.5 if it's working for you, as 5.6.1 isn't stable enough yet. Hopefully NI will release update sooner than later.


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## tack (Oct 24, 2016)

I am still being plagued with random freezes in my DAW since upgrading to 5.6.1. Multiple times a day. I was unable to downgrade last I tried, so now I'm going to pull out all the stops (uninstall Kontakt completely, wipe all traces of it, reinstall 5.5).


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## novaburst (Oct 24, 2016)

5.6.1 anybody brave enough to update to this, 5.6 seems ok and stable for me and I have quite a bit going on in there,


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## playz123 (Oct 24, 2016)

I can only speak for myself here, but I have had zero problems with 5.6. and 5.6.1, and I've been using them daily since they were released. All of the missing library GUIs problems etc. I used to have in 5.5 are gone. And the text is larger in 5.6.1 than in 5.6. I expect there may be one or two other satisfied users out there as well  but of course it's the people who are unfortunately having problems who tend to post more often.

Hopefully the next update will see the return of purge functions, which seems to be the main concern for many.


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## novaburst (Oct 24, 2016)

Ok sounds good @playz123 was the text all they did in this update, perhaps there is no rush for it, i used to be a very heavy kontakt user always gong under the hood, since being converted to orchestral all i do now is load the library and press the key board control, then maybe use the controls on the library, and then its all about the DAW, this could be a reason why i dont see any glitches if there is any.

I have noticed that there are a lot of very fussy updates giving users head bangs, i wounder if our latest machine components and platforms are going one way, and the software, developers are going another way. i say this because i have not updated any part of my machine for a very long time apart from SSD and ram, still pushing an i5
and a Duo server, and hanging around with windows 7. are some lucking it out, is it the latest machines, is it windows 10 even, again the question why do some luck it and some head bang. 

As of now its all about the library and the DAW


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## EvilDragon (Oct 24, 2016)

There were some bugfixes in 5.6.1 as well.


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## novaburst (Oct 24, 2016)

I guess its will be wise to update.


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## tack (Oct 24, 2016)

novaburst said:


> I guess its will be wise to update.


From 5.6, probably. From 5.5, I'm not so sure. Either way, back up your template / project files before loading them with Kontakt 5.6 and once a project is saved with 5.6 you can't go back to 5.5.


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## pixel (Oct 24, 2016)

novaburst said:


> I guess its will be wise to update.


Do it in service center. Native Access deleted my plugin files in 5.6 and 5.6.1 installation. Except that everything is fine with this update, no problems on Win7


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## tack (Oct 24, 2016)

For those interested, downgrading worked fine but I had to uninstall 5.6 first. Apart from that, my old installer for 5.5.2 (which I'm not even sure can still be downloaded) dropped in fine.

I sent another support ticket to NI and attached the nicrash files that have been dropped. Last time I submitted the nicrash files from 5.6 they closed the ticket because I couldn't tell them how to reproduce it. I still can't, so I imagine they'll ultimately close this new ticket too, although this time I gave a couple more possible clues.

Anyway, here's hoping for 5.6.2.


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## novaburst (Oct 24, 2016)

What im wondering is how do you all get hold of 5.5, mind my noob, but is that the DVD disk, or an update some where,


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## tack (Oct 24, 2016)

novaburst said:


> What im wondering is how do you all get hold of 5.5, mind my noob, but is that the DVD disk, or an update some where,


I found the installer from a previous download, when I first downgraded from 5.6 to 5.5.2. I went looking again recently and I couldn't find it anywhere on NI's website. It now sends you to Native Access which doesn't let you install older versions (from what I can tell). I was fortunate enough to have found the previous version on my NAS.

If you use Windows and you're desperate, PM me.

P.S. Note to self: backup libraries _before_ batch resaving, not _after_.


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## Soundhound (Oct 24, 2016)

I'm using 5.6.1 and getting random freezes etc, but I'm going to bear with it because I'm almost done on a job that gets handed in Wed night. After that it's back to 5.5.2 for me.


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## tack (Oct 24, 2016)

Soundhound said:


> I'm using 5.6.1 and getting random freezes etc


In my case I suspect it's correlated with changing articulations. At least it seemed to happen an inordinate number of times that my DAW would freeze when I sent a MIDI event to change an articulation. I'm using Reaper, and send program change messages to Kontakt, and then have a multiscript (FlexRouter) translate to CC32 for Spitfire patches (which are locked to UACC).

Do our setups intersect in any way?


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## Soundhound (Oct 24, 2016)

Doesn't seem like it. I'm in Logic, it happens sometime when opening an instrument in Kontakt, sometimes when closing an instrument, it happened today when hitting Reset Multi. Doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason to it. 



tack said:


> In my case I suspect it's correlated with changing articulations. At least it seemed to happen an inordinate number of times that my DAW would freeze when I sent a MIDI event to change an articulation. I'm using Reaper, and send program change messages to Kontakt, and then have a multiscript (FlexRouter) translate to CC32 for Spitfire patches (which are locked to UACC).
> 
> Do our setups intersect in any way?


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## novaburst (Oct 24, 2016)

tack said:


> you use Windows and you're desperate



I am on windows, it all seems to be running fine, but it would have been some peace of mind to know there was a get out of jail free card. 

I can't find any older versions on my machine, the only version is the one I have on my DVD disk and the komplete 9 HD


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## jcrosby (Oct 24, 2016)

I've stayed put on 5.5.2 thank god. I feel for those jumped in and can't roll back... 
It sounds as if they've implemented some kind of auto-install and nuke your previous installer? 
This sounds worse everytime I re-vist this thread


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## novaburst (Oct 24, 2016)

jcrosby said:


> sounds as if they've implemented some kind of auto-install and nuke your previous installer



I think NI should at least have older versions on there support for users who get adverse problem's, hard to believe all issues mentioned are not there, but seems best remedy is to reinstall older versions


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## Soundhound (Oct 24, 2016)

Yes please!!!!!



novaburst said:


> I think NI should at least have older versions on there support for users who get adverse problem's, hard to believe all issues mentioned are not there, but seems best remedy is to reinstall older versions


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## jcrosby (Oct 24, 2016)

novaburst said:


> I think NI should at least have older versions on there support for users who get adverse problem's, hard to believe all issues mentioned are not there, but seems best remedy is to reinstall older versions



Yeah. I hate to risk sounding like I'm going for low hanging fruit here but... well... it's kind of an Apple-ish move...
(And that's speaking as a Mac user who's developed basically total contempt for them...)
Shit like this does nothing but piss off the people that keep you in business and it's a shortsighted move that makes you raise an eyebrow... I smell a subscription model on its way.


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## EvilDragon (Oct 25, 2016)

novaburst said:


> I think NI should at least have older versions on there support for users who get adverse problem's, hard to believe all issues mentioned are not there, but seems best remedy is to reinstall older versions



And they do have older versions available still.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?search=kontakt


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## novaburst (Oct 25, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> And they do have older versions available still.
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?search=kontakt



Ok nice, at least kept them all, it kind of makes one breath more easy, I was looking but did not check here, 

Thanks


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## novaburst (Oct 25, 2016)

I have downloaded https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?search=kontakt a few 5.5 updates and put them away in a folder, will be sticking with 5.6.1 as it is running fine for me, but at least now and for any one else there is a solid foundation to lean on if things start falling apart.

Thanks again @EvilDragon


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## Soundhound (Oct 25, 2016)

That's great, hadn't found that! Thanks so much.



EvilDragon said:


> And they do have older versions available still.
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/update-manager/?search=kontakt


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## A.P. (Oct 30, 2016)

Nice GUI but loosing purge all - function and after some crashes in Logic Pro X with NI SSSE, I went back to 5.5.2.

Edit: 5.6 and 5.6.1 are loading super fast…


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## tack (Oct 30, 2016)

A.P. said:


> Edit: 5.6 and 5.6.1 are loading super fast…


I didn't really see a significant improvement in 5.6 for patch loading. Have you done a batch resave with 5.5?

Still stable now that I've downgraded to 5.5.2. I hope the third time's the charm with 5.6.2.


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## A.P. (Oct 30, 2016)

tack said:


> significant improvement in 5.6 for patch loading


Sorry didn't specify: is super fast when I open my projects in Logic with 5.6.x --> the projects open much faster and the samples seem ready sooner for playback etc.


tack said:


> Have you done a batch resave with 5.5?


No, I didn't… Maybe I should, although I didn't encounter extreme long loading times with libraries in 5.5.x


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## paulmatthew (Dec 6, 2016)

previous installers for Kontakt can be found here https://www.native-instruments.com/...e-manager/?search=kontakt&refresh=yifvdhk1bkn


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