# Best grand piano for orchestral uses?



## ThomasNL (Mar 19, 2018)

hey fellow composers,

I noticed the lack of grand piano in my collection (I love felt piano's/upright piano's so much hehe) and after some research am overwhelmed with the amount of grand pianos. Would love to hear your recommendations of grand pianos that blend well with orchestras but are also good on their own. 

Have a nice day!
Thomas


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## muk (Mar 19, 2018)

As you probably know there is not a single 'best' one. I am using the Garritan CFX and I am very happy with it, in an orchestral context as well as on its own.


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## dbudde (Mar 19, 2018)

muk said:


> As you probably know there is not a single 'best' one. I am using the Garritan CFX and I am very happy with it, in an orchestral context as well as on its own.


+1 for the Garritan CFX. And it is very reasonably priced.


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## CGR (Mar 19, 2018)

Hi Thomas,

I own and can recommend the following:

*1. Cinematic Studio Piano* (a Yamaha C7 - 7'6" Grand sampled on a scoring stage with 4 mic perspectives).
The Mid & Far mics work really well in placing the piano in the mix with orchestral instruments. As a bonus it runs in the free Kontakt Player, and is only $69 – 
http://www.cinematicstudioseries.com/piano.html

*2. Strezov Sampling Lipp Grand Piano* (vintage German made grand piano sampled on a large scoring stage with 3 mic perspectives). Not as clean/modern sounding as the CSP above, but sits really well in an orchestral setting also. Listen to the demo of 'Children of the Wood' by Adam Hochstatter – 
https://www.strezov-sampling.com/products/view/LIPP-Piano.html

*3. EastWest 25th Anniversary Bosendorfer 290 & Steinway B* (these are older sampled pianos, but very well captured and I've found them pretty light on computer resources running in the free Play 5 engine on a Mac)
The Bosendorfer has 2 mic positions (close and ambient) and 16 sampled velocity levels for both pedal up & pedal down. The Steinway B is a single mic perspective, 3 sampled velocities (3 each for pedal up & pedal down - although they blend really well) and has a really sharp & clear tone, which cuts through a dense mix well, and handles reverb well given it was sampled at a bit of distance from the piano – 
http://www.soundsonline.com/25th-Anniversary-Collection

My experience in working with sampled pianos in an orchestral setting is I get more convincing results with a piano which has a proper room or hall mic perspective, rather than just a close mic sample set and applying reverb to that. In an orchestral setting, you don't want a piano with a huge stereo spread with that artificial panning of bass notes to the left and treble to the right. It's just not how a piano's stereo image works - I've played, performed with and recorded many acoustic pianos. Check out this recent thread where a VI Control member was struggling with getting his stock Logic piano to sit well, so I rendered his piano part with the Cinematic Studio Piano:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/can-i-borrow-your-ears.69029/#post-4192376

Hope that helps.


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## CGR (Mar 19, 2018)

dbudde said:


> +1 for the Garritan CFX. And it is very reasonably priced.


+1 here also. Forgot to mention that one! It's an excellent option (you really need the full version IMO) and given it's massive size, quite efficient to run. Also extremely responsive and dynamic to play, and very convincing as a recorded piano sound (some play well but still sound artificial on playback I've found).


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## SGordB (Mar 19, 2018)

+1 on the CFX. I have the inexpensive "Lite" version which can do everything from dry, intimate solo work to a big hall sound beautifully, despite using just one relatively close mic pair (https://www.garritan.com/products/cfx-concert-grand-virtual-piano/compare-cfx-lite/). On special at Sweetwater for $60: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CFXLite--garritan-abbey-road-cfx-lite-virtual-piano

That said, it's all about taste.


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## dbudde (Mar 19, 2018)

SGordB said:


> On special at Sweetwater for $60: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CFXLite--garritan-abbey-road-cfx-lite-virtual-piano



And the upgrade at Sweetwater is $79. So best pricing for the full version is to buy the lite version and then the upgrade.


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## Michayl Asaph (Mar 19, 2018)

I use Sonivox Eighty-Eight and Production Voices Production Grand Gold....
love them both, however, I have used Addictive Keys Modern Upright
for small orchestra, or chamber pieces, which actually works real well.
All are priced pretty low right now.


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## CGR (Mar 19, 2018)

Michayl Asaph said:


> I use Sonivox Eighty-Eight and Production Voices Production Grand Gold....
> love them both, however, I have used Addictive Keys Modern Upright
> for small orchestra, or chamber pieces, which actually works real well.
> All are priced pretty low right now.


Good suggestions. The Addictive Keys Modern Upright has a really natural sound. Very flexible shaping the tone and a joy to use.


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## Maxfabian (Mar 19, 2018)

My "go to" piano library is the Ravenscroft 275, I like it a lot! I use it in every genre. All of my tracks on Soundcloud are made with the the Ravenscroft. But I had my eyes on Garritan CFX for a while now... You never get satisfied enough..

https://soundcloud.com/maxjuras


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## lumcas (Mar 19, 2018)

Another CFX happy user here. I'm actually surprised that I've stopped searching right after buying this one (and all VI Labs, some Ivory, all NI, Keyscape and countless others). Seriously, it really is great. Some swear by Pianoteq and I admit it's getting there, I'll probably buy version 9 or 10


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## constaneum (Mar 19, 2018)

is Garritan CFX Lite sufficient or good enough ?


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## MatFluor (Mar 19, 2018)

If you really just need it in an Orchestral context:

Spitfire Orchestral Grand

Recorded in Air, nice tone, various mic positions. It's not as Full bodied as others, but depending on your needs, it's pretty much "drag and drop" and ready to go out of the box.


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## ThomasNL (Mar 20, 2018)

Amazing suggestions everyone! Lets hope that one day i'll be able to buy my own grand ^^


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## TimCox (Mar 20, 2018)

I find myself constantly going back to Cinesamples' Piano In Blue especially after they updated it.


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## lumcas (Mar 20, 2018)

constaneum said:


> is Garritan CFX Lite sufficient or good enough ?



Only you can judge if it's good enough for your needs. But you can always upgrade to full when you feel the need to (you pay only the difference in price).


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## axb312 (Mar 20, 2018)

ISW Pearl Concert Grand...


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## Michael Antrum (Mar 20, 2018)

Ivory II American Concert D paired with QL Spaces reverb ....

Job done.


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## prodigalson (Mar 20, 2018)

My favorite piano for orchestral contexts is the Garritan CFX also. Beautifully recorded, very playable and very sonically flexible. But the best thing is if you want a gorgeous piano that just sits back in the scoring stage out of the box, this is the one.


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## zadillo (Mar 20, 2018)

Note the CFX Lite is only $51 if you buy it from AudioDeluxe as their MAR2018 15% off code gets applied


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## SillyMidOn (Mar 20, 2018)

You could use your favourite piano and then use virtual sound stage to place it in a room, and add some reverb as well if need be:

http://www.parallax-audio.com


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## SoundChris (Mar 20, 2018)

Hm well I have to admit that I´m stil a huge fan of EWQL Pianos Platinum. The Bösendorfer, Bechstein and Steinway are really great sounding IMO and its possible to create exactly the kind of sound that you need for any possible situation. Here are a few examples:

*Classical (Bösendorfer / Steinway / Bechstein):*

EWQL Pianos Platinum Boesendorfer in a late-romantic concerto:



(plz. excuse the lacking midpart orchestration. Once i made this track my old machine could not handle all EWQL Hollywood Orchestra Gold and the Pianos Platinum Bösendorfer. So this stayed in WiP-status. Nevertheless you can see how well it works in a real orchestral situation)

EWQL Pianos Platinum Steinway in a late-romantic Piano Solo Piece:



EWQL Pianos Platinum Bechstein - late-romantic Trio:



*Jazz (EWQL Pianos Platinum Boesendorfer):*




Japanese inspired classical/cinematic on EWQL Pianos Platinum Steinway:



So even this library is old and the footprint is stil heavy i just have to say that i stil adore this library!


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## CGR (Mar 20, 2018)

SoundChris said:


> Hm well I have to admit that I´m stil a huge fan of EWQL Pianos Platinum. The Bösendorfer, Bechstein and Steinway are really great sounding IMO and its possible to create exactly the kind of sound that you need for any possible situation. Here are a few examples:
> So even this library is old and the footprint is still heavy i just have to say that i still adore this library!


Great examples Chris. Those EWQL pianos are very authentic, and have a huge dynamic range (particularly the Bosendorfer). I have the Gold version (player only mics) and I've found them to be very stable and efficient running in Play 5 on a Mac (big improvement from Play 4). Despite their age they still hold up sonically with the best of them. Playability is a whole other thing though (I find myself editing the MIDI a fair bit afterwards).


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## chasmanian (Mar 20, 2018)

I like CFX too.
and I have a whole bunch of grands. grands worth, must be by now. 

I bought Piano in Blue a while back. have been whelmed by it.
I play almost exclusively thru headphones.
today, played through speakers. turned it up a bit.
all mics on full.
now I get it.
I really really like it.
Keyscape's LA Custom C7 can be really good to layer with other Keyscape instruments.


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## Pantonal (Mar 20, 2018)

Quick question to the OP, do you want the piano to blend into the orchestral ensemble or are you looking for a concerto type of sound? While (in real life) the vast majority of orchestras have one piano (Steinway D) for both purposes they are situated differently on the stage, concerto up front, ensemble piano toward the back. It would make a difference in how you mix a virtual piano into the orchestral sound. I once played a Steinway B that had been voiced as a concert instrument, it was all loud and brash and it was impossible to get a softer sound in the small room it was situated in. That may be more a commentary on my piano skills, but the virtual pianos I've played have for the most part not been voiced as concert instruments. That would mean that if you're looking for a concerto sound a truly appropriate virtual piano may not exist (and you might not want it of it did).

Count me as another vote for the Garritan CFX.

Steve Chandler
soundcloud.com/pantonality


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## nas (Mar 21, 2018)

I love the Ivory II American Concert D, it's very response and sounds beautiful. That being said, in very dense arrangements where there may be a lot going on, I actually find the Steinway Piano in Logic's EXS24 cuts through a little better and won't hesitate to use it in this context.


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## constaneum (Mar 21, 2018)

Question on Garritan's CFX lite. On the website, it's mentioned that the library is 22GB. However, when i download the link. There's only one zip file of 2.4GB in size. that 22GB mentioned on the web is a uncompressed size or what? The official website mentions "22 GB of free hard drive space required". So i was kinda expecting the file to be bigger than 2.4GB? Is there anything i'm missing out here? the download link given to me is only this 2.4GB file.


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## Guffy (Mar 21, 2018)

What are people's thoughts on Orchestral Tools The Grands?
It sounds great from what i can tell, but i don't see it come up here that often.


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## hdsmile (Mar 21, 2018)

SoundChris said:


> Hm well I have to admit that I´m stil a huge fan of EWQL Pianos Platinum. The Bösendorfer, Bechstein and Steinway are really great sounding IMO and its possible to create exactly the kind of sound that you need for any possible situation.
> So even this library is old and the footprint is stil heavy i just have to say that i stil adore this library!



100+ undoubtedly, the leader here still the EWQL Pianos *Platinum*


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## JohnG (Mar 21, 2018)

There are quite a few pianos that sound good, but each one is going to sound a little different depending on what kind o music you're writing. I still use the EWQL pianos (the platinum version gives more mic positions and that is important, I'd say). Lately, I've used some treated pianos from Spitfire, and recently started using the Galaxy Vintage D, which also sounds great.

Good luck!

John


[note: I have received free products from East West]


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Mar 21, 2018)

The only piano I own purely for orchestral use is Orchestral Tools' Steinway. It's included in Berlin Orchestra Inspire. If you'd like to hear the demos for yourself you can here:


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## kevinlee87 (Mar 21, 2018)

Ravenscroft! I choose you!


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## fixxer49 (Mar 21, 2018)

ThomasNL said:


> hey fellow composers,
> 
> I noticed the lack of grand piano in my collection (I love felt piano's/upright piano's so much hehe) and after some research am overwhelmed with the amount of grand pianos. Would love to hear your recommendations of grand pianos that blend well with orchestras but are also good on their own.
> 
> ...


i just picked up Cinesamples' Piano In Blue for $69


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## SGordB (Mar 21, 2018)

constaneum said:


> Question on Garritan's CFX lite. On the website, it's mentioned that the library is 22GB. However, when i download the link. There's only one zip file of 2.4GB in size. that 22GB mentioned on the web is a uncompressed size or what? The official website mentions "22 GB of free hard drive space required". So i was kinda expecting the file to be bigger than 2.4GB? Is there anything i'm missing out here? the download link given to me is only this 2.4GB file.



My Lite installation is 20.67 GB. There's also a compact version included with the Lite. Perhaps you only downloaded that one?


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## Pantonal (Mar 21, 2018)

constaneum said:


> Question on Garritan's CFX lite. On the website, it's mentioned that the library is 22GB. However, when i download the link. There's only one zip file of 2.4GB in size. that 22GB mentioned on the web is a uncompressed size or what? The official website mentions "22 GB of free hard drive space required". So i was kinda expecting the file to be bigger than 2.4GB? Is there anything i'm missing out here? the download link given to me is only this 2.4GB file.


Did you install it and try it. I don't remember how big a file I downloaded so I can't help you with that. If you try to install it and it doesn't work then you'll know you didn't get it all. The lite version is still a very useful piano.


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## prodigalson (Mar 21, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> i just picked up Cinesamples' Piano In Blue for $69



An absolute steal. Piano in Blue is great piano.


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## bigcat1969 (Mar 21, 2018)

Older school but often on good sales, the Sampletekk pianos are quite nice. The fellow who owns the place seems to have a special touch for recording pianos. He did the Addictive Keys recording, but these are deeper. There is a good bit of variety though the lineup seems to have changed somewhat. I couldn't see if they still do the Bosendorfers. The Black Grand is a nice Steinway that seems pretty versatility and they have some powerful Yamahas. Definately catch the sales if you buy though.


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## SGordB (Mar 21, 2018)

constaneum said:


> Question on Garritan's CFX lite. On the website, it's mentioned that the library is 22GB. However, when i download the link. There's only one zip file of 2.4GB in size. that 22GB mentioned on the web is a uncompressed size or what? The official website mentions "22 GB of free hard drive space required". So i was kinda expecting the file to be bigger than 2.4GB? Is there anything i'm missing out here? the download link given to me is only this 2.4GB file.



I just checked, and my download link is also 2.41 GB. I guess the lib is just super compressed.


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## axb312 (Mar 21, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> i just picked up Cinesamples' Piano In Blue for $69



How? Also, have the noisy sustain samples really been fixed?


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## fixxer49 (Mar 21, 2018)

axb312 said:


> How? Also, have the noisy sustain samples really been fixed?


right on their website. 69 frog-skins. (v2.3 update notes claim some sample fixes and other things.)
https://cinesamples.com/product/piano-in-blue


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## axb312 (Mar 21, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> right on their website. 69 frog-skins. (v2.3 update notes claim some sample fixes and other things.)
> https://cinesamples.com/product/piano-in-blue



From a video on here, there was some awful noise buildup when you used the sustain pedal at a stretch. Please test if this is still present and let me know... I loved the tone of this piano but didn't get it because of this issue..

Pearl concert grand also has this noise buildup when the sustain pedal is pressed.. but it's not as apparent as what I'd heard for PIB.. Is this a common issue for piano libraries..?


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## fixxer49 (Mar 21, 2018)

axb312 said:


> From a video on here, there was some awful noise buildup when you used the sustain pedal at a stretch. Please test if this is still present and let me know... I loved the tone of this piano but didn't get it because of this issue..
> 
> Pearl concert grand also has this noise buildup when the sustain pedal is pressed.. but it's not as apparent as what I'd heard for PIB.. Is this a common issue for piano libraries..?


if i come across any issues, i'll let you know. most piano libraries have their individual quirks, which can be equally charming, or annoying, i guess.


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## constaneum (Mar 21, 2018)

SGordB said:


> I just checked, and my download link is also 2.41 GB. I guess the lib is just super compressed.



oh wow. After installation it's approximately 24GB like that. amazing compression. How i wish other sample library developers would be able to deliver such compressed installation file.


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## bigcat1969 (Mar 22, 2018)

The question is does the compression negatively effect the sound. I'm not aware of lossless compression that can do 10X.


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## constaneum (Mar 22, 2018)

it still works nicely. it's quite nice even for the CFX Lite. i'm loving it.


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## Lee Blaske (Mar 22, 2018)

MatFluor said:


> If you really just need it in an Orchestral context:
> 
> Spitfire Orchestral Grand
> 
> Recorded in Air, nice tone, various mic positions. It's not as Full bodied as others, but depending on your needs, it's pretty much "drag and drop" and ready to go out of the box.



I agree that this one is really good for contextual, orchestral use.

There are really two things to consider regarding "orchestral piano." Having the pianist in front of the orchestra as a soloist (piano concerto, etc.) is one thing, and for that, you'd want a highly detailed library. But, there are also all those times where the piano is in the back of the orchestra, sort of as a member of the percussion section. That's where the Spitfire Orchestral Grand would be handy.


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## fixxer49 (Mar 22, 2018)

axb312 said:


> From a video on here, there was some awful noise buildup when you used the sustain pedal at a stretch. Please test if this is still present and let me know... I loved the tone of this piano but didn't get it because of this issue..


I'm really, really liking it. As someone else said earlier, for this price it's an absolute steal. I muted the room and ambient mics and paired with Altiverb. Nice and playable, feels good, and sounds very nice w/ Todd-AO and 20th Century Fox impulses. For quick and dirty inclusion in the big template, I threw on the Waves Greg Wells PianoCentric and turned the [single!] knob until it sounded good w/ the orch. good to go.


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## axb312 (Mar 22, 2018)

fixxer49 said:


> I'm really, really liking it. As someone else said earlier, for this price it's an absolute steal. I muted the room and ambient mics and paired with Altiverb. Nice and playable, feels good, and sounds very nice w/ Todd-AO and 20th Century Fox impulses. For quick and dirty inclusion in the big template, I threw on the Waves Greg Wells PianoCentric and turned the [single!] knob until it sounded good w/ the orch. good to go.



So the noise on the sustain pedal (if you keep holding it) is no longer present? Or does it go away with the the room and ambient mics taken off?


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## CGR (Mar 22, 2018)

axb312 said:


> So the noise on the sustain pedal (if you keep holding it) is no longer present? Or does it go away with the the room and ambient mics taken off?


My opinion of Piano in Blue for what it's worth: I have updated to V2.3, which had some minor fixes, but the initial noise complaints were addressed in V2, with the tape sample set (there are separate direct/digital & tape sample sets) being completely re-recorded/transferred to tape from the original digital samples. I've mainly noticed the noise build up with the Room & Surround mics – the Close mics are pretty clean. For me, the noise issue is really nothing to be concerned about. The tone is so good and it's a really unique sampled piano. Remember that the noise you hear is the ambience of the space it was sampled in - the mics & signal chain were very clean & high resolution.

Sampled pianos with samples that are de-noised within an inch of their lives lose a lot of the air & presence and can sound plastic and clinical to my ears. Remember that layering all 3 mic perspectives will introduce noise as the notes stack up, but I mostly use a mix of 100% Close and 70% Room (sometimes just the Close) and it's never really a big problem for me (then again, I'm judicious in my sustain pedal use - some players plant their foot down all the time).


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## CGR (Mar 22, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> I agree that this one is really good for contextual, orchestral use.
> 
> There are really two things to consider regarding "orchestral piano." Having the pianist in front of the orchestra as a soloist (piano concerto, etc.) is one thing, and for that, you'd want a highly detailed library. But, there are also all those times where the piano is in the back of the orchestra, sort of as a member of the percussion section. That's where the Spitfire Orchestral Grand would be handy.


Very well put.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 22, 2018)

To me the most important question is whether a piano is good to start with, not really whether it's good for orchestra. 

Different mic positions are certainly a nice feature, but I don't know that I could tell the difference reliably between that and a piano positioned closer or farther back using standard mix techniques (i.e reverb, volume, ERs...).


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## keepitsimple (Mar 25, 2018)

The Garritan CFX is the real deal, especially for orchestral use. It has the most comprehensive presets variations in any library thanks to the many mix'n'match mic perspectives it offers (Full version) and that Abbey Road room ambiance is always purposely present in most of the presets.

Besides being suitable for orchestral use, i came to the conclusion that it's the only library that brings out nuances and articulations in my playing that other libraries can't. But that's a different subject.


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## Fleer (Apr 2, 2018)

Did anyone else try the new Cinesamples CinePiano as it's sampled in the same Sony orchestral hall?


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Apr 5, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Did anyone else try the new Cinesamples CinePiano as it's sampled in the same Sony orchestral hall?


I love it. Just uploaded a review!


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## axb312 (Apr 22, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> The Garritan CFX is the real deal, especially for orchestral use. It has the most comprehensive presets variations in any library thanks to the many mix'n'match mic perspectives it offers (Full version) and that Abbey Road room ambiance is always purposely present in most of the presets.
> 
> Besides being suitable for orchestral use, i came to the conclusion that it's the only library that brings out nuances and articulations in my playing that other libraries can't. But that's a different subject.



Is there a download only version of the full CFX library available somewhere?


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## keepitsimple (Apr 22, 2018)

axb312 said:


> Is there a download only version of the full CFX library available somewhere?


No it's Box only.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 19, 2018)

So, does anyone own both the Garritan CFX and Addictive Keys (XLN)? I'd love to find out which is generally preferred for orchestral compositions.

I'm really loving the CFX, btw, but have heard really excellent stuff in regard to AK Baby Grand.


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## Fleer (Jul 19, 2018)

The AK is quite nice indeed but has limited samples compared to CFX. It’s not as deeply sampled.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 19, 2018)

If what we are talking about is a piano that is not hard to make fit in with full sample based orchestrations, then Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano is a good choice.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 19, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> If what we are talking about is a piano that is not hard to make fit I. with full sample based orchestrations, then Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano is a good choice.



Well this is a cool answer! I hadn't considered the Fluffy instruments until just now.

That said, I still haven't uncovered all the treasures inherent to CFX, so I'll stick with it for now. I so love the Goldberg and Crystal presets. I'm demoing the AK and I like it, but upon first listens I'm hearing the higher quality of the former. Right off.

I am not one for out of the box stuff necessarily (I must admit, though overall the Ark 1 piano is kind of limited, it sure fits in great in a project with only Ark instruments!).

I also use the Albion Legacy piano (really limited there), just because it has what sounds to me like a Goldsmithian muted piano that kicks boo-tay.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 19, 2018)

For support Piano which is not having a soloistic role in the composition I like the cinematic studio piano, ecspecially when you use the Room mic only it has a rich nice tone and fits very easy into the room with other libraries, I actually used in my last track. Was splendid adding easily nice colors for doubling..


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 19, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> For support Piano which is not having a soloistic role in the composition I like the cinematic studio piano, ecspecially when you use the Room mic only it has a rich nice tone and fits very easy into the room with other libraries, I actually used in my last track. Was splendid adding easily nice colors for doubling..



I really like your latest! The only trouble I had with it is the sound...does it seem there could be more warmth in the EQ? The highs get to be a bit much when playing all the way through. Just my ears (I could be completely wrong, forgive me if so). 

Besides what seems a small EQ adjustment (maybe boost at 500 hz) congratulations on that track, Alexander!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Jul 19, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I really like your latest! The only trouble I had with it is the sound...does it seem there could be more warmth in the EQ? The highs get to be a bit much when playing all the way through. Just my ears (I could be completely wrong, forgive me if so).
> 
> Besides what seems a small EQ adjustment (maybe boost at 500 hz) congratulations on that track, Alexander!



Check out Aaron Ventures Master..he did quite a remarkable job there adding some mojo to my mix..


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jul 19, 2018)

Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano, or the good ol' Steinway B from EastWest Goliath/Symphonic Orchestra.

When I joined EW Composer Cloud (after already owning several libraries for years) I gave the Pianos a try. Personally, I found them disappointing. Many of the notes sound like the "strings" are out of tune and there's some funky phasing going on.


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## Ben (Jul 19, 2018)

I like the VSL Synchron CFX. It sounds beautiful and you can shape the sound a lot.
But it needs a lot of ssd space and RAM, as well as a lot of CPU-performance.

"Each note has at least 60 recorded velocities with the Yamaha CFX, and with the repetition system in the background, there will be more added, depending on how and what you play." (https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t48823-CFX-velocity-levels)


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## keepitsimple (Jul 19, 2018)

I was going through all the presets of Garritan CFX today (Full version) and i was shocked by how versatile this piano can be. There are gorgeous presets in there (specifically the ones that feature the soft pedal). It covers it all: From classical to jazz to modern to cinematic.

And the 3 mic perspectives along with the different positions they set them up with are so different it's like you're having an complex 3 in 1 package in there that covers it all. Add to that those Abbey Road reverbs they threw in there and you've got yourself a complete solo piano package.

For making a *solo piano* album, this is the only and most comprehensive library to get IMHO.

Of course Keyscape is a different story, now we would be talking keys and bells and whistles....and Omnisphere integration, that's different.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 19, 2018)

I'm currently addicted to the Goldberg preset; it had me digging my favorite Bach/Gould CD for reference. The Crystal has also been of use to me. I use the timbre knob regularly as well.


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 19, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> The Garritan CFX is the real deal, especially for orchestral use. It has the most comprehensive presets variations in any library thanks to the many mix'n'match mic perspectives it offers (Full version) and that Abbey Road room ambiance is always purposely present in most of the presets.
> 
> Besides being suitable for orchestral use, i came to the conclusion that it's the only library that brings out nuances and articulations in my playing that other libraries can't. But that's a different subject.



This is what I'm taking away, after having owned and user-manualed this thing for about a month. It can have the most sublime sound when mixed among orchestral instruments, cutting without being ridiculously high end in the mix. If I didn't suck I'd share samples lol!

There are so many tones you can achieve with the CFX it's ridiculous. I find all kinds of fast runs are working great on this thing as well; something that's hanging with me is what the developer said when asked about round robins "I don't think you need round robins when you have this many recorded samples".

And therein lies the downside: the Garritan is immense.


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## constaneum (Jul 19, 2018)

loving Garritan CFX !!!


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## Parsifal666 (Jul 20, 2018)

keepitsimple said:


> I agree. Also you can tell that a lot of careful tweaking and time was spent to create those presets and that soft pedal is just beautiful to play, specifically with the player mics (try preset "Soft player" ).
> 
> Anyway, since you love the Goldberg 1981 preset so much, here's a little improv i did with it yesterday:




The monster riff at the beginning sounds a little like something from a 70s Jerry Goldsmith score (btw, that's a compliment, as Goldsmith is arguably the king in that realm). I'm wondering how much is muted piano (very JG that), and envious at your judicious employment of the pedal. Are you using the onboard 'verb?

Excellent work, and I CAN'T get enough of that tone!


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## Per Lichtman (Jul 20, 2018)

If you want to go the Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway route, the Room position mics are completely different from the other 5 sets and are the ones best suited to use with the orchestra. To quote the Embertone website:

"Room
Mics: Schoeps CMC 6, A/B Stereo (Cardioid)
Position: 6 ft away 8ft high, pointing towards the inside of the lid from the audience perspective.
Qualities: More room ambience and reverb coloration while allowing the piano to fully resonate into the room. Great for achieving a traditional/classical sound in a concert hall or recital setting."

So basically you pick that position, then add whatever reverb is appropriate. This keeps you from having to deal with the "left-right" spread that makes sense for solo piano but doesn't sound at all like the piano in the hall.

I found that I had an easier time getting good results with the Room position versus using one of the other positions and trying to shape it with VirtualSoundStage 2. I still used VirtualSoundStage 2 if I wanted to put the piano someplace other than in the center, soloist seating (for instance when playing the accompanying piano part to a solo cello piece).


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## Per Lichtman (Jul 20, 2018)

I just went ahead and rendered the Room mic for a piano comparison I'd already put together, so that you can hear for yourself whether it makes a significant difference to your ears compared to other mic positions.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 20, 2018)

Pianoteq 6 here.


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