# Having trouble finding my sound... any suggestions please!



## soundtraktechnoid (Jul 6, 2013)

Hi, I'm new to posting here although I have been a member for a little while and am always looking at the posts on here. I am having a difficult time trying to come up with "MY" sound, something that is very intrinsic to the way i write and the "sound" that defines me as a composer. Just like Hans has his specific sound and Williams and so on, how does one do something new but still intrinsic to themselves in a world where so much has already been composed. I am not one who believes that original ideas will never cease to exist, ever, but I am just having a hard time finding a sound that is unique to me and makes people recognize my music and want my music for those qualities.

Thanks-
DDT


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## Kralc (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm no expert, but I do have quotes stolen from a book, The Advancing Guitarist. 
Near the back of the book, there are a couple pages with short quotes and thoughts, etc... (I know it's for guitarists, but the thoughts still apply.)

_The most difficult thing about finding "your own path" is that you're already on it. More than likely you've never left it. That's why finding it is so difficult._

and

_Don't try and make a study of your own individuality. Make studies of everyone else's individuality._


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## Rob (Jul 6, 2013)

the way I approach the question of being original is, as each of us IS unique, a matter of being as sincere as we can be... if you have the necessary technique, understanding of how music works, and really know what you like in music, then even a simple piece for solo piano will have a unique sound, because you're directly converting your feelings in music, and that will be your sound.


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## Walid F. (Jul 6, 2013)

This entire "originality" concept is vague and something that I think is an illusion. You can't be original in a place where culture has defined what you and others around you enjoy and appreciate; we are all human, and we are influenced by everything around us. Even if you would write something "original", something crazy out of the norms of what people expect, they might not even like it because it's just too "weird". I'm not saying you can't be weird or thinking outside the box, I'm saying that for scoring films and games and what not, where you have a general audience to satisfy, you have to look at what defines 'cool' and 'intriguing'.

You say "Hans sound", well Hans has his own influences and roots, his own life that has formed his sound. You can call these "sounds" original, if originality is taking inspiration from what you've heard, seen and read, and arranging them in a way that is special to you, while still pleasing the ears of your audience (and not freaking them out with outrageous "music").

If you want that whatever you're writing feels like YOUR sound, then you need to look at what you have experienced, and what you like - your mental library. I'm real damn influenced by Koji Kondo for example, since I've been playing Nintendo games like a maniac since I was 3 years old, so "my sound" can sometimes sound quite Koji'ish, but I don't even think about it (I do beware for plagiarism though!).

So if you have some great sources of inspiration that you acknowledge, learn more about them and see "what makes them tick". That way you get to understand WHY some sounds really are "original" to you, when they are basically from people inspired by other people; both in history and in the contemporary.

This might sound like "You can't have your own voice, so stop trying" - NO! I'm saying you shouldn't see originality in music as something that's never been thought of or heard of - you should see it as learning to understand what makes certain music you like so damn likeable, and through that you can create your own ways of approaching those mechanisms in your own music - from your own influences. That is real originality in music, I feel...



Kralc @ Sat Jul 06 said:


> _Don't try and make a study of your own individuality. Make studies of everyone else's individuality._


Exactly this.

My 2 cents... W


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## Vlzmusic (Jul 6, 2013)

I admit that my own personality is shaped by difficult and demanding gigs I have encountered. 
When it makes your brains boil, and you have to give 150% percent of yourself - it will ultimately give you much in return. Many times its about completely breaking your own frames and need to adapt. It all pays off afterwards.

So I guess - stress is the name of the game


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## wst3 (Jul 6, 2013)

Mick Goodrick's book? I love that book, and regularly return to it to try to advance myself a little bit more. Wonderful advice!


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 6, 2013)

The simple fact is that only a handful of people in a generation have a truly unique "sound."

Goldsmith didn't, Zimmer did. Does it make Zimmer greater than Goldsmith? Not in my view.

My advice to the OP? Don't worry about such grandiosity as a "sound that defines you as a composer". 

Buy the libraries whose sound you like, write what you like and write as well as you can write it. Maybe you will stumble on that "MY sound" or maybe you will not. But retain the humility to understand that either way, it is unlikely the artistic world or the commercial world will care.


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## wst3 (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm going to respectfully disagree with Jay...

Seeking perfection is viewed by some as foolish, or worse. I'd argue that settling for nothing less is foolish, but seeking is fine. It is ultimately about balance. If your quest for perfection prevents you from accomplishing anything then its bad. But as paths go there are worse!

Same goes for searching for "your sound". Nothing wrong with seeking it out, but if you let that search prevent you from doing things in the meantime it's bad.

There are dozens of quote that all try to teach us that it is the journey, not the destination. This is the advice I give to my students, and sometime I even try to follow it myself<G>!

As far as the last part goes, Jay is correct. I think that's sad, but I can't change it, so I don't spend a lot of energy trying, nor do I spend a lot of time trying to impress the critics - commercial or artistic. I'd actually like some of the time I spent worrying about how things would be perceived back!

What was, perhaps, under emphasized is that even if you never fully develop your sound very few people will care - which sounds harsh at first, but if you think about it, well, it's not so bad. It isn't that they don't care, it is that they do not let such factors get in the way.


I hope that makes some sense...


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## ghostnote (Jul 6, 2013)

Your sound is already in you. It's your personality, your taste. It's not about how to find it but how to learn to "speak" it. If you'll just hunt for "your" voice you'll end up in such a video like this one here: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HIdjU0DZkQ


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 6, 2013)

wst3 @ Sat Jul 06 said:


> I'm going to respectfully disagree with Jay...
> 
> Seeking perfection is viewed by some as foolish, or worse. I'd argue that settling for nothing less is foolish, but seeking is fine. It is ultimately about balance. If your quest for perfection prevents you from accomplishing anything then its bad. But as paths go there are worse!
> 
> ...



Maybe I am not being clear. "Perfection" does not necessarily equate to "MY sound".

Goldsmith to me was as perfect a film composer has walked the planet but he didn ot have a "MY sound." 

If you actively seek it, it will elude you. If it is there to be found, it will be the result of just doing the work.


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## reneS (Jul 6, 2013)

If you score for picture, you have to find the sound of the film. This is much more important then "your" sound.
Otherwise, try not to sound like anybody you know. If you suceed, your sound will emerge without you looking for it.


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## Jetzer (Jul 6, 2013)

There is a nice quote on the subject from Alexandre Desplat:

_Over the past 15 years, I've been able to build a voice, something that looks like me. I don't know if it's a "new" voice as some say, it's not within my ability to say - but I write what I like! So it's "me". I come from France, and I've worked here, and in England, and Spain, and I'm not going to dump the past 15 years of my life when I come to Hollywood. I will still improve by doing a European movie once in a while, because there's a different approach to film scoring. Even a film with a small budget - I don't care, as long as I can be creative. And being creative is the way to move forward.
_
I don't think it is possible to find or seek a 'sound'. Write what you like, just don't try to write like somebody else, and (eventually) it will sound like you. It's unavoidable that sometimes, you will sound like somebody else.


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## Jimbo 88 (Jul 6, 2013)

Don't look for "Your Sound". Let the project dictate "the sound". The rest will follow.


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## Sasje (Jul 8, 2013)

Struggled with this for years... until I realized that I was trying to copy a style, indeed, then you'll never find your own style. One day I dropped everything I ever listened to or admired, and mentally forget anything I ever heard. Sat down behind my DAW and after a week of complete silence (do not listen to music either!) it finally became clear after a series of mockups that I do certain things, which became my "style". I got better at it, and now when I listen to those who I admired, I now think my stuff is better! haha!. It's something beautiful to discover... but it required for me to listen to myself in complete silence. I don't think anyone owns music, music owns you. You're the messenger, nothing more. You have to trust the muse in yourself, and let it flow through you. By doing that, the music will filter through you. It's similar to a distilling process: you put your emotions, experience and inspiration in it, let it ferment, and at the end you get a certain flavor, which should be your unique style. If you found the recipe, than you can use it throughout your work with different kind of arrangements of your flavor/style.

So the best advice I can give anyone: Don't copy, stop listening to others, get that DAW running and just write a lot of stuff, try different angles, without forcing it. Listen to all your mockups, and soon you'll discover a theme running through it. This should be your unique style.


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## Mike Greene (Jul 8, 2013)

I've got your answer in one word: Banjo!

Huh? No? Okay, but don't come complaining to me when the next big composer has banjo in all his scores and that could have been you!

:mrgreen: 

I'm with Jay and Michael in that I wouldn't spend much time trying to find my own unique sound. That will happen organically on it's own, which will be far better than trying to frame yourself as the dorian scale guy, or the jazz quartet guy. (Or even the banjo guy!)


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## Greg (Jul 8, 2013)

Just keep working! Your 'Sound' will come naturally as you progress as a composer.


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## KEnK (Jul 8, 2013)

My advice is to not look for "your sound" within the confines of film music.
What's happening in film music now is derivative, constrained, 
has little to do w/ creativity and nothing to do w/ your individual style.

Look to the sources for inspiration.
(For film music, this is generally late 19th and early 20th century classical)
Study in a more abstract sense, rather than stylistic imitation.

I tell my jazz guitar students, 
"If you want to develop your own sound on the guitar,
stop listening to jazz guitar."
I tell them to look to piano and horns for inspiration and direction.
That's where the early and unique sounding guitarists looked.

I see developing your individual "film" sound in the same way.
Ignore film music until you've honed a bunch of compositional processes or tools.
Work on "structure", harmony, voice leading, motivic development and the like.
Then later, stick your face in the feed trough.
Don't start there.

Anyone get the feeling I don't think to highly of film music? :mrgreen: 

k


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## Rob (Jul 8, 2013)

Kenk you're looking for trouble :D


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## KEnK (Jul 8, 2013)

Hah!

No harm in a lively discussion.
But, I know many here would agree w/ me.
Maybe you :wink: 

k


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## Rob (Jul 8, 2013)

KEnK @ 8th July 2013 said:


> Hah!
> 
> No harm in a lively discussion.
> But, I know many here would agree w/ me.
> ...



:D not many I suspect... I remember when I first arrived here and introduced myself as one that wasn't so much into film music, the warm welcome I received was "so what are you doing here?". I'm not joking...


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## KEnK (Jul 8, 2013)

Rob @ Mon Jul 08 said:


> :D not many I suspect...


But perhaps the few that count. 
In spite of the orientation here, 
the forum is not called Film Music Control. o=< 
A big gene pool is always the healthiest.

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=74


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## Rob (Jul 8, 2013)

KEnK @ 8th July 2013 said:


> ...
> 
> A big gene pool is always the healthiest.



sheer wisdom


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## germancomponist (Jul 8, 2013)

Greg @ Mon Jul 08 said:


> Just keep working! Your 'Sound' will come naturally as you progress as a composer.


+1


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## reneS (Jul 9, 2013)

come off it KEnK

Film Music is extremely important....







... for the film.


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## KEnK (Jul 9, 2013)

Hi rene-

I agree w/ what you said here:


reneS @ Sat Jul 06 said:


> If you score for picture, you have to find the sound of the film. This is much more important then "your" sound.


And this is not so different from what several posts are saying, including mine.
Film music is by nature not about music, or the uniqueness of an individual composer.

I'm simply saying don't look to a derivative and limiting form to discover and nurture your voice.
Seems to be the question was "How do I find my sound"?
I'm telling the op- find your sound first, then write for film later.

k


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 9, 2013)

Rob @ Mon Jul 08 said:


> KEnK @ 8th July 2013 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Depends on whose genes. Charles Manson was a musician, don't want his genes here


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## KEnK (Jul 9, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Tue Jul 09 said:


> Rob @ Mon Jul 08 said:
> 
> 
> > KEnK @ 8th July 2013 said:
> ...


What about Wagner?
He wasn't such a great guy either. :wink:


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 9, 2013)

KEnK @ Tue Jul 09 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Tue Jul 09 said:
> 
> 
> > Rob @ Mon Jul 08 said:
> ...



He was a anti-semite but he wasn't Manson. That said, I might pass on him. I would sacrifice some art for better humanity.


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## KEnK (Jul 9, 2013)

Personally I think Wagner's poison was ultimately a lot more harmful to 
Human Society than Manson's.

Is separating the Art from the Artist easier than 
separating the Wheat from the Chaff? 
(I'm not sure)

Ben Webster, Mingus and Miles weren't exactly model Humans either.

That's the problem w/ things like gene pools.
There's a lot of stuff in there that you don't want.

k


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## EastWest Lurker (Jul 9, 2013)

KEnK @ Tue Jul 09 said:


> Personally I think Wagner's poison was ultimately a lot more harmful to
> Human Society than Manson's.
> 
> Is separating the Art from the Artist easier than
> ...



True this, it is a matter of degree. For sure, I draw the line at serial killers


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## Guy Bacos (Jul 9, 2013)

I don't think you can look for a sound, the sound will come to you.


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## impressions (Jul 9, 2013)

composing is like finding love, you don't know what you are seeking until you meet it.

its the same with finding your own sound.


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## Kejero (Jul 12, 2013)

Agreed with what many have said already. Just keep writing. Eventually you'll find textures, devices, "tricks" etc that you feel are comfortable for you, and in times with tight deadlines those will become part of your foundation and automatically help shape your music. Something you can call YOUR sound.
The tricky thing then is to try to keep your music fresh.


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## Inductance (Jul 12, 2013)

@soundtraktechnoid, When you sit down at your keyboard, do you notice your hands immediately seeking familiar chords and chord progressions? Notice that familiar rhythm pattern or melody? Notice that you favor certain instrument combinations for certain parts? 

When I see that happening to me, I take that as "my sound" trying to emerge. I don't always see it as a good thing, since I am always trying to come up with NEW stuff instead of trying to rehash old material. But in the end, I am who I am and I like what I like, so I can only consciously fight it up to a point. I think ultimately, if you're honestly pursuing what appeals to you, and you're writing from your heart and your mind, a unique style and "sound" will emerge on its own.


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## Kejero (Jul 13, 2013)

Inductance @ Fri Jul 12 said:


> [...] your hands immediately seeking familiar chords and chord progressions [...] I don't always see it as a good thing, since I am always trying to come up with NEW stuff instead of trying to rehash old material.



It's a balancing act really. I've found that's it's best to try out NEW stuff very gradually. Build upon what you know and own, rather then force it all out and trying to go into a entirely new direction. Or rather, go an entirely new direction, keep that one or two idea(s) that resonate with you when you find them, then bring back your own voice into the mix.


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## soundtraktechnoid (Jul 17, 2013)

Thank you all for all the suggestions, I understand the point most of you are going for, and that is to not seek the sound but let it develop and grow over time and it will eventually emerge. I guess I just feel in an industry where there are so many people to pick from, how do you stand out and stand above the rest and do something innovative but still appealing and in demand. I will continue to compose and write what I like, and hopefully someone somewhere hears my music one day and knows that its me from the way it is composed. I understand that the project does dictate the "sound" but there will always be certain things about a score that are very personal and define your music, such as, Hans doing As Good As It Gets, as opposed to him doing Gladiator, both very different in style but both can be picked out as being his and his "sound", so to speak.

(sorry I keep referencing Hans, but I look up to him as a composer)


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