# VEPro7 Single Instance Strategy for PC



## Synetos (Oct 23, 2019)

I was wondering how you guys lay out your VEP instance? Do you layer folders? Divide by library, by instrument type, etc?


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## Eugenic (Nov 14, 2019)

Following this as I'd like to understand if any of you use VEP on 1 PC only, as a template organiser, rather than on multiple machines. Is it worth buying just for that?


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## Synetos (Nov 14, 2019)

I run on one machine. I have a slave box as well, but i dont even use it anymore. VEP running on local machine works very well. 

What I am trying to do is have as smallish Cubase template, and as many VST's as possible on standby. So, if I have 15 different pianos, I can just pick the one I want for the song, without hiding a track or having tons of midi tracks all mapped.

Using a single instance has been working, but it is hard to navigate. I made the post to maybe see what more experienced VEP users are doing that is working for them. Hopefully, some with chime in.

As an added note: Some of the new Cubase 10.5 track import features may change how I do things. But I just installed it, so not sure yet.


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## TintoL (Nov 14, 2019)

I think I can offer you some help. I've gone from 6 slaves and a master computer to only two computers. 

Currently the slave is loaded to the bones with all spitfire template. And the main computer with cubase has more instruments added as instances. These are instruments that I don't have loaded all the time. Like ethnic instruments or specific type of instruments. 

A lot of your decision making on how to do the template depends on how much you are loading and what computer you have. 

I can tell you from experience - and I've had to change my template several times to improve performance- that the amount of vep instances, the amount of kontakt instances are super mega important for proper resources usage. 

Having a whole orchestra in a single vep instances makes the real time performance unstable, slow and prone for clicks. plus it makes your cubase file move slow. Reason been, because all is running on a single thread in vep to process all. Plus cubase is streaming all from one rack instance. 

Also, having many instruments on few kontakt instances is slower than more kontakt instances. The reason again is because vep is super efficient at using core and threads. Thus, you use more cpu power if using more kontakt instances because vep spreads the load on many threads. (cpu overload is the most common reason for clicks and pops in my opinion)

My opinion, after struggling with one single instance streaming all the template from the slave to facilitate rack instruments connection, is that a few vep instances is a bad idea. And, kontakt instances should stay at not more than 8 or 10 per vep instance. 

I've tested every option, and the balance between vep instances and kontakt instances is crucial. It's not a matter of how you like it to look or organize. It's a matter of efficiency. Using the piano roll editor in a slow template is the worst, a turn off by itself. 

By the way, my template is about 1200 tracks. Is not the biggest one, but, enough to prove and test what these systems can do. 

By the way, I find that using many folder in vep adds complexity when mixing. Because each folder also has a fader. So, I opted for use the least amount of folder tracks.

If I were you I would separate the template in orchestra part (strings, brass, woods etc.) Using more kontakt instances inside of each vep instance, but not more than 10 kontakt instances. Also, if you have many lets say strings libraries, have each library in it's own vep instance. So you can first be able to turn off the whole thing and also, so you can spread evenly the load on the cpu threads. 

I hope that helps. I had to figure it out by re-doing it all the time and figuring it out myself. I hope it helps.


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## Ben (Nov 14, 2019)

TintoL said:


> Having a whole orchestra in a single vep instances makes the real time performance unstable, slow and prone for clicks. plus it makes your cubase file move slow. Reason been, because all is running on a single thread in vep to process all. Plus cubase is streaming all from one rack instance.


This is not the default configuration. By default a single VEP instance uses as many threads as your CPU has cores. If you use multiple instances or use power intensive plugins in the DAW you should lower the thread count a bit. Anyway, I do not recommend to set it to 1 Thread, because most of the times you will get a bad experience with bad performance.

You should check this setting:


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## TintoL (Nov 15, 2019)

Thanks Ben, 

I have tweaked the threads count before. But, I found that a bottle neck for me is not actually vep but cubase. streaming from one slave all the template on one instance had high usage of thread cpu usage, but working. But,in the master computer cubase was dying with one single rack streaming all that stuff coming. It behaved properly when unloaded all from one rack to multiple instrument racks holding vep. Is this correct or am I missing something?

By the way, why don't you guys save our life and create a "vienna sequencer daw" software so we don't have to to use the dinosaurs we currently have?


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## Synetos (Nov 15, 2019)

Thanks TintoL. 1200+ tracks! That is a big ol template  

I don't run Kontakt, but I understand what you are talking about. I own a large part of the VSL library, but I hardly use it. I do not do orchestral work, but want the ability to have high quality solo and string ensemble samples for the work i am doing.

What I wish I could do is not have general instance preferences that apply across all VEP instances. I would like the ability to define how many VEP Audio Outputs/Inputs and Midi Ports I need on a per instance basis.

I use plenty of Spectrasonics instruments, and they suck lots of resources. VEP is helpful for managing that.

I've been trying to use VEP for offloading some FX, but lately I have been having Cubase crash when I try to insert VEP Audio Input plug. 

It is also confusing to have VEP /// be 64bit and VEP x64 not be? I am still foggy on that, and maybe I have it wrong However, choosing the wrong one plays a role in the crashing, as I have discovered.


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## matthieuL (Nov 15, 2019)

VEP /// is VST 3
VEP x64 is VST 2
If I understood well, both are 64 bits.

But yes, this notation is very bad


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## Synetos (Nov 15, 2019)

matthieuL said:


> VEP /// is VST 3
> VEP x64 is VST 2
> If I understood well, both are 64 bits.
> 
> But yes, this notation is very bad


Thanks. Paul (from VSL) did explain it to me a few years ago, but I am still tripped up on it. The manual doesnt explain it.

I have been using the /// for a while now. It was just all the crashing I am getting with Audio Input insert that had me wondering if I was making an error.

EDIT:
If x64 is for VST 2.4, but I create my VEP instance with VST /// VST 3.x what happens when the plugin is only VST 2.4? (XLN Audio, and all my Spectrasonic plugs are 2.4).

When I look at plugin manager in Cubase, I can see the version, and they are not VST 3.x versions for those libraries.


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## TintoL (Nov 15, 2019)

Yeah Synetos.... you are totally right. Spectrasonic stuff like omnisphere really suck cpu resources more than I would ever imagin. Just like the b2 reverb. They are mounstrously heavy, but, THEY ARE WORTH IT..... 

Good luck


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## Eugenic (Nov 16, 2019)

TintoL said:


> Also, having many instruments on few kontakt instances is slower than more kontakt instances.



Guys sorry to hijack this for a moment.

@TintoL do you think this is true also outside VEP? What I have is 6-7 Kontakt instances loaded to the brim with all 16 MIDI channels used (labelled STRINGS1, STRINGS2, BRASS1, BRASS2, etc.).

In STRINGS1 i have, as an example, all my V1, V2 and Violas.

Do you think the project could be more stable if I "unpack" this instance into 3x separate ones? Is this generally valid? Because I was wondering why Chris Henson in the Spitfire videos adds a new Kontakt every time he opens a new MIDI track haha


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## Ben (Nov 16, 2019)

Eugenic said:


> Is this generally valid?


No, it depends on the host and its multi-core optimizations. With some DAWs you will get better performance, with others you will get the same or worse performance.
If you are using one/few instrument (or one midi track) per Kontakt instance, make sure to disable the mutli-processor option in the plugin version (not if you open the standalone version!)






Background: With one instrument almost everything must be clculated on one core. But the enabled option will turn on multi-core optimization, and these will interfere with the hosts (DAW / VEP) multi-core opimizations.


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## Eugenic (Nov 17, 2019)

Ben said:


> Background: With one instrument almost everything must be clculated on one core. But the enabled option will turn on multi-core optimization, and these will interfere with the hosts (DAW / VEP) multi-core opimizations.



Thanks Ben - I think I am going to try how the load changes if I switch that on and off. But my Kontakts are fully loaded with 16 patches per instance - so I guess this is not the scenario you were saying.
If the multiprocessor support is off, does it mean everything goes on CPU0 or is Kontakt intelligent enough to actually use the CPU with less load for every new created instance?

How would that change if all the Kontakts were rigged in a VEP7, and then that is loaded into Cubase?


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## jononotbono (Nov 17, 2019)

Currently have 4283 Tracks in my Cubase template. Everything connected to VEPro 6 is via Rack Instruments and using Midi Tracks.

I also have a lot of Intrument tracks that are disabled and I enable them as and when I want them.

Generally, I create a VEPro tab for each library so I can enable or disable them as and when I want. Excetion to Spitfire Albion 4 (Uist) as there are so many patches in that thing that I had to make 1 VEPro instances per Instrument group (so 1 for Strings, 1 for Brass, and 1 for Winds).

I tried having as few VEPro instances as possible but I found there to be an issue with using 48 Midi Ports on a Mac a while ago with maxing my CPU so now I'm just used to having many VEPro instances.






Some of the VEPro Tabs I have...


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## Ben (Nov 17, 2019)

Eugenic said:


> If the multiprocessor support is off, does it mean everything goes on CPU0 or is Kontakt intelligent enough to actually use the CPU with less load for every new created instance?


If you host Kontakt as plugin, the host will manage the threads and tries to make best use of the available cores.


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## Mishabou (Nov 17, 2019)

TintoL said:


> Thanks Ben,
> 
> I have tweaked the threads count before. But, I found that a bottle neck for me is not actually vep but cubase. streaming from one slave all the template on one instance had high usage of thread cpu usage, but working. But,in the master computer cubase was dying with one single rack streaming all that stuff coming. It behaved properly when unloaded all from one rack to multiple instrument racks holding vep. Is this correct or am I missing something?
> 
> By the way, why don't you guys save our life and create a "vienna sequencer daw" software so we don't have to to use the dinosaurs we currently have?



Just out of curiosity, are all your Kontakt/Play used in your single VEP pro instance loaded ?

I'm dedicating a new MacMini slave (64GB) to EWHO, i created one instance for each section (WW, Brass, Strings, Perc). When i load all the WW patch in one VEP pro instance and connect to CB10, playing one simple note would distort, CPU Usage for that one instance hovers around 90%.

Does this mean that as soon as you connect to an instance, each loaded instrument will automatically consume bandwith/CPU ? I ssume this is the reason why you recommend a max of 10 instruments per instance ?


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