# Moving to LA and looking for some advice!!



## CalebAuston (Apr 23, 2013)

Hey guys,

So I am getting myself together and finally taking the big step in moving out to LA to give my career a real shot in the big leagues. 

I know there are a bunch of you already out there and wanted to see if some of you city of angel veterans had any advice on how to make the transition out there as productive and fluid as possible (i.e places to begin to look for jobs, people I can talk to, general career advice.) 

I'm sure I could use all the help I can get so if you guys have anything to contribute I would be ever grateful. See you guys soon,

-Caleb


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Apr 23, 2013)

CalebAuston @ Tue Apr 23 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So I am getting myself together and finally taking the big step in moving out to LA to give my career a real shot in the big leagues.
> 
> ...



Sure we will all be happy to do all we can to help you compete with us as effectively as possible as we do not have enough competition here already :lol: 

I will however tell you the good places to eat.


----------



## _taylor (Apr 23, 2013)

I assume you are looking for composer work? Do you have any connections out here already?

From a cold start, there is Mandy and of course Craigslist. Not your idea of LA but that's reality for a person who doesn't know a soul out here. Its a good place to meet folks and get some gigs. 

I would try and set up as many meetings as you can. Cold email or call your dream jobs, you never know. Shake hands, make friends and prepare yourself for a long long long uphill road.

If all else fails, El pollo loco is always hiring..

Join The SCL http://thescl.com/home if you are looking to make friends or meet other composers etc..

Nice weather and beautiful beaches give way to over crowded streets and lines in almost every store you shop at. o-[][]-o


----------



## CalebAuston (Apr 23, 2013)

Hey Taylor,

I really appreciate you taking the time and being willing to give me more advice then places I should eat.

I do have some connections out there and am definitely looking to find more and more. I know that the grind will be difficult and strenuous but as I'm sure you know, when this is what you love to do, there isn't much of a choice anyway.

Again I appreciate the advice and hope that I get the opportunity to meet you in a the crowded streets or in line at a shop.

Cheers brother
- Caleb


----------



## jeffc (Apr 23, 2013)

I would say the best thing is to allow yourself enough time. To come here and expect something to happen in a few months is unrealistic and puts too much pressure on you (of course it happens sometimes, but most people have slogged it out here for some time before anything of note happens). I really think you need at least 3-4 years of working it for something to happen organically. 

So, that would mean either having enough money saved up to live for a while, or get some type of job when here to allow yourself time to make friends, develop relationships, etc. All that takes much time -especially if you're meeting people as people - not just beings that can do something for you. Those are the kind of relationships that will spread the word for you when you're not asking, but they of course take more time to develop.

SCL and all that stuff are great to see how other people do it and meet other composers, but at some point you'll find that sitting in a room with 300 other people as desperate as you to find the secret formula to finding a gig, gets a bit depressing. 

Trying to find an assistant job for a working guy is probably the best thing you can do, as you will make a bit of cash, but more importantly learn how the whole thing works without your name on the line.

Second to that would probably join a band and try to get famous that way - then slide over to film scoring - that's a pretty popular way to do it these days 

And in the midst of all of that, you still have to block out time to actually write music and work on your craft, record as much as you can, etc. Because if you happen to have something lucky happen and you're not prepared on that front, then you'll be out of luck.

Just give it time and be patient. LA surely doesn't need another composer, but if it's what you've got to do, eventually things will happen for you.

If not, maybe one of Jay's restaurant recommendations are hiring a busboy....

JC


----------



## germancomponist (Apr 23, 2013)

I do not live in LA, but I give you a hint: Make friends! The more, the better!


----------



## mverta (Apr 23, 2013)

I moved here to LA 23 years ago. If I was mayor, I'd replace the welcome signs at the airport with a picture of people's dreams skewered on pikes, and smarmy, conscience-less executives giving themselves awards for doing it. What a shithole; and an expensive one, too. If you want to see up-close what the theoretical maximum amount of narcissistic stupidity looks like in a human being, though, it's a Petri dish. 

I muscled a career out of this place for the same reason that if I got a life prison sentence, I'd learn to suck dick real good. If you want to be in the business, bend over, and bring your favorite blankie to bite on. 

I dunno, does that sound ungrateful or harsh given that it's been a good life so far? I'm not sure, but it's the truth. Most people hate it here and don't have a choice. Most people here avoid eye contact with the neighbor they've lived next to for 8 years should they happen to check the mail at the same time. It's the most desperate, self-absorbed black hole of humanity in the country. 

This does not stop you from having a rich, full life with close friends, great projects, and a prosperous career. But learning to do all that/stay focused on that while virtually every force around you makes you want to open a vein 24/7 is a lot of work. It's a unique experience. I almost recommend it. If you want to save some money, though, you could always just pound yourself in the nuts with a ballpeen hammer for 5 years while watching the hottest chick in the world do a striptease in front of you behind bullet-proof glass. Kinda the same thing.


_Mike

P.S. Jay might be able to tell you the best restaurants; I can tell you the best bars. Hit me up and I'll show you the ropes; first bottle's on me. And congratulations! (?).


----------



## dinerdog (Apr 23, 2013)

Good advice? Priceless! o-[][]-o


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Apr 23, 2013)

mverta @ Tue Apr 23 said:


> I moved here to LA 23 years ago. If I was mayor, I'd replace the welcome signs at the airport with a picture of people's dreams skewered on pikes, and smarmy, conscience-less executives giving themselves awards for doing it. What a shithole; and an expensive one, too. If you want to see up-close what the theoretical maximum amount of narcissistic stupidity looks like in a human being, though, it's a Petri dish.
> 
> I muscled a career out of this place for the same reason that if I got a life prison sentence, I'd learn to suck dick real good. If you want to be in the business, bend over, and bring your favorite blankie to bite on.
> 
> ...



This is so funny and yet true that I am not sure whether it makes me want to laugh or cry more.


----------



## passenger57 (Apr 23, 2013)

I was lucky enough to have an established composer help get me into door when I moved out here in 96. Funny though, first thing he said was to get a regular job - so I did, at Virgin Records. Changed my life. I met some great people there that are friends to this day. 

Anyway - The composer let me sit in on sessions and gave me odd jobs here and there. Then after a couple years once he realized I was serious he hired me full time. I got to work on A list movies for a few years as a music copyist and studio assistant. Then I gained enough confidence to strike out on my own. Best thing I ever did. 

As for my Virgin Records friends - most of them are now very successful and we have worked on many cool projects together over the years. Also, my wife moved out here and we were able to hash out a living till I 'made it' so to speak. We had roommates for years to help pay the bills. Took 9 years before we could get a place of our own. 

Anyway, it's like anyplace, if you have friends it will be fine. But yes it is very expensive out here. If I lived anywhere else we could buy an awesome house, but here we are still renting! lol


----------



## Maestro77 (Apr 23, 2013)

Good advice from some fellow left coasters. The best thing to do is be patient. You're going to struggle for a few years, just accept that. I know several people who went home with tails between legs after 6 months. Another thing to add is keep an open mind. You may be moving out here to be a composer, as I did, but you may end up doing something different. You never know what's going to fall in your lap. As long as you're a decent person things will come your way. Last thing: work, work, work! Take any and all jobs you can find and build your craft/portfolio. Volunteer for student films, assist on sessions, do product demos for sample library companies. Just keep working. It's an inspiring town and also total hell. Simply enjoy the weather, make some friends and work hard. The rest will fall into place. Best of luck!


----------



## gsilbers (Apr 23, 2013)

not sure the extent of your planning. but rent is very high and you need a car. 
like $700-1k in rent alone. 

its always hard to choose in what area to live. its too sprawled.

craiglist is good enough to search but i just drive around the area and find for rent signs and call. got a great apt in westwood a while back this way. 

the main areas are venice/santa monica. smaller botique places/studios. hans studio is there. 

then there is the hollywood/west hollywood area. hollywood is like going to hell. i try to avoid as much as posible. burbanks is where the bigger studios are (smaller as well) but many of the mixing houses are. but there is a little bit of everything. 

a good and upcoming neighborhood is silverlake area. its the defacto hipster local. 

another one is attwater village and eagle rock. 
im in pasadena and takes me forever to get anywhere.. but love it. feels im not in LA 

to check and see what places are good to live. cause there are some ghetto ish neigborhoods, ou can check crimemappings.com or other similar ones and you can see what areas have higher crime. 

as for finding a job , the above posts nailed it. you wont find anything quick. living in LA and being a composers is all about relashionships. you can start with being an assistant and start to meet clients who with enought time will give a bone or 2 . 

if not, then you have to make friends with direcotrs/producers which will not give anyone aa chnace unless theyve done something as big or bigger as what they are working on. but at the same time might start to know you and give a chance on small free projects. or low pay.

that is not a big problem unless you pay those high rent prices and if you need to find a day job to pay for that while composing then its hard to meet and develop relationships. or have time to do full time composing gigs.


----------



## Greg (Apr 23, 2013)

Yeah, stay the fuck away from Hollywood. It's quite nasty there and superficial. Nicer areas are of course more expensive, like Santa Monica, Palisades, Venice. 

The ocean and beautiful hiking trails in the Santa Monica mountains can really save you from the soul crushing cesspit of the downtown and Hollyweird area when you need to escape.

Have you ever been to LA? It's definitely not for everyone. And these days composers can quite easily work remotely. Coming out here with no job and clinging to your hopes and dreams could be a recipe for disaster, which as Mike eluded to, is a common occurrence.


----------



## passenger57 (Apr 23, 2013)

> to check and see what places are good to live. cause there are some ghetto ish neigborhoods, ou can check crimemappings.com or other similar ones and you can see what areas have higher crime.


Thats actually a good point. A friend of mine moved into what he thought was a good neighborhood in Pasadena and it turned out it was a gang area. I didn't even know they had gangs in Pasadena! He got out of there quick. And yes Hollywood sucks, I hate going down there.


----------



## Kralc (Apr 23, 2013)

Greg @ Wed Apr 24 said:


> Santa Monica, Venice.


I once stayed in a place right on the beach, smack bang on the edge SM and Venice. 

The Venice side was crazy. :shock:


----------



## _taylor (Apr 23, 2013)

Hollywood always smells like pee... although pretty interesting with a field recorder in hand.


Westside rentals is a decent place to find shelter, I've found 2 through them.


----------



## Tanuj Tiku (Apr 24, 2013)

Wow! Sounds like hell on earth!


----------



## Andreas Moisa (Apr 24, 2013)

Guys, I really think you have to appreciate living in LA a little more. California is one of the most beautiful places. I recently had the chance to live there for three months (not for work though) and it has been a great experience. I met so many nice and inspiring people (some of them forum members) and people that I would never have the chance to meet here in my hometown, which is very lovely too btw. Most of the time the people were very friendly and open minded and almost always in a good mood. I mean literally the possibilities in LA are endless: food, music, people, beaches, mountains, screenings, great weather - and career options. Also crazyness is endless.. Starting a composing career from scratch is hard everywhere in the world, so you might as well start in LA - especially when you are an american. If I were to move to LA I would guess that it would take me around 4 years before things start to happen. I would only do it (besides visa problems) if I had enough money to live on for at least a year, including rent, food, a car! and of course paying the bills at lunch meetings. You need time to meet people, you need cash to meet them at decent places. I had the impression that it would be hard to do it, but not impossible.

It's also very obvious that people check out what advantages they gain to meet/know you, so you will be more successful if you are in a position to "have something to offer" rather than only "want something" from people. The door swings both ways.


----------



## Aaron Sapp (Apr 24, 2013)

Mike pretty much disintegrated the head of the nail with his spiel. Brutally accurate. None of my music work is local -- the only reason why I've stayed here this long is for the few close friends I regularly hang out with, and the local pub. That's it. 

I could write a small novel on why you shouldn't move to Los Angeles. Unless you're willing to entertain the real possibility of chomping on proverbial table scraps for years and years, you're living a pipe dream -- all the while trudging through all those wonderful rites of passage in a city full of assholes, smog, expense and soul-detonating traffic.


----------



## synergy543 (Apr 24, 2013)

Aaron, that's so sad to hear. If anyone could succeed in moving to LA, I would've guessed it would be you as you are so very talented. 

It seems you are one of the few others from the VI-Pro orchestral group who didn't go on to become a Sample Developer. It seems that's the road to succes$. Selling sugar-coated dreams to others. That's the way to do it! I think some of the guys have had tremendous financial success. Maybe one of these wealthy developers would take you on-board? 

Kind of like a pimp-ride though huh? (oops, sorry to all my developer friends).


----------



## guitarman1960 (Apr 24, 2013)

Living in the UK, it's interesting to hear people say how expensive LA is. I guess it's all relative. I live in the middle of the UK, which compared to London is very 'cheap' but renting a nice place round here is £600 a month easily. Petrol costs a fortune, so does road tax and income tax, and the weather is absolutely shit nearly all year, LOL!

A freind of mine moved to San Diego and said he would never ever come back to the UK.


----------



## Ed (Apr 24, 2013)

guitarman1960 @ Wed Apr 24 said:


> I live in the middle of the UK, which compared to London is very 'cheap' but renting a nice place round here is £600 a month easily.



Im paying £795 for 1 bed :(


----------



## reddognoyz (Apr 24, 2013)

mverta @ Tue Apr 23 said:


> If you want to be in the business, bend over, and bring your favorite blankie to bite on. (?).




I kinda have to agree with that sentiment. It's not exactly the politically correct-est allegory nor is it exactly on the money in terms of the experience. Working as a composer in this business isn't the same as getting forcibly sodimized, but it's the closest thing I can think of. 

I'm in NYC but my clients are about 75% LA and I would say the opportunities for getting treated like sh*t are very high regardless of coast.


----------



## Madrigal (Apr 24, 2013)

> I muscled a career out of this place for the same reason that if I got a life prison sentence, I'd learn to suck dick real good. If you want to be in the business, bend over, and bring your favorite blankie to bite on.



Yeah, I guess it all depends on how much of your personal integrity you're willing to sacrifice to move up the ladder. Most of the time, it isn't worth it.

But I guess it's the same thing with many jobs. Work in a restaurant, people treat you like you're their slave and as long as they are on the fence with their comments, you have to keep bending down. 

Be honest with yourself and keep asking yourself: "Will this make me happy in the long term?" 

Best of luck! 

-M


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Apr 24, 2013)

There is one reason and one reason only for doing this. If you feel that "if I do not go and at least try to do this, I will die" then do it.

If you can imagine yourself being happy doing something else or doing it another way, then don't do it, because you are competing with guys like me who did feel that way and you will not likely succeed.


----------



## passenger57 (Apr 24, 2013)

Couldn't resist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tj2zJ2Wvg


----------



## gsilbers (Apr 24, 2013)

guitarman1960 @ Wed Apr 24 said:


> Living in the UK, it's interesting to hear people say how expensive LA is. I guess it's all relative. I live in the middle of the UK, which compared to London is very 'cheap' but renting a nice place round here is £600 a month easily. Petrol costs a fortune, so does road tax and income tax, and the weather is absolutely [email protected]#t nearly all year, LOL!
> 
> A freind of mine moved to San Diego and said he would never ever come back to the UK.



thats the same price in LA. for a 1 bedroom is about $1200-$1500 a month. 
moving w roomated is cheaper and also moving to very small or bad areas.


----------



## germancomponist (Apr 24, 2013)

OT: What are the land prices in LA?


----------



## jaredcowing (Apr 24, 2013)

Andreas Moisa @ Wed Apr 24 said:


> Guys, I really think you have to appreciate living in LA a little more. California is one of the most beautiful places.


I have to agree with this, though that doesn't help job prospects. Very new to the city but some thoughts from so far: 

The city itself: LA is one of the few cities that has a mountain range cutting right through the middle. While the smog and traffic can be a serious issue, it doesn't change the fact that hiking/outdoor opportunities abound, particularly if you're near the SF valley or the San Gabriels. It truly is a beautiful area, if you know where to look (some other areas of the city not so nice).

The industry: Expect to make little or no money from music for a long time. You need to plan on having a day job that probably has little or nothing to do with music- if you have any other skills, get yourself a nice stable day job that will pay the bills while you try to get your footing in music. Retail/busboy won't cut it, rent here is just too expensive. If possible, land the job before you move out here. This isn't easy, since LA job market isn't the best. I went to grad school in a totally different field and worked a couple years in that field just so I could land a solid day job in LA before I actually moved out here- it meant holding off on making the move for 3-4 years, but now I'm not pulling my hair out while I look for gigs because I don't depend on steady gigs to pay rent. It does limit your availability, but I'd rather do it this way than have to, as was mentioned before, go home after 6 months with my tail between my legs.

SCL is great to learn and meet people, but being in a roomful of composers also looking for work isn't the best way to actually get work.

Like everyone else is saying, it's a rough business to get into and LA is not for everyone. But if you plan for the worst rather than do the "leap of faith, it'll work out" move, you'll at least be able to relax and make your LA experience all about what you can do here rather than what you can't.


----------



## Tanuj Tiku (Apr 24, 2013)

Just to add to this....

Some things are about the same all around the world in important cities specially with relation to the film industry.

I pay about $750 in Mumbai for rent and over here 1 Rupee = $56. Its a 550 square feet flat.

Luckily I make all my living from music so I do not have to depend on a day job - this is anyway not possible in India. You cannot have a decent day job to support yourself as the salaries for waiting on tables and other such places are extremely low since labour is cheap in India.

Its a coastal city and the property prices are one of the highest in the world. The industry is full of crap people who do not care about how good you are - the connections, the parties, the ass-licking - it all exists here. 

Some people wait around for years to get into the main stream. It does not help that software and hardware is that much more expensive for us. Specially, after import duties. It is also one of the most populated countries in the world.

There are no standard wages, no per minute rates. No strong unions - no copyright laws to protect you. Traffic is probably worse than LA for sure. Pollution - its unbelievable compared to most places in the west. 

Public Transport is a joke. 

This is a picture of the local trains in Mumbai - 

http://www.google.co.in/imgres?um=1...&w=420&h=240&ei=QRp4UbX3D4TMrQe-jIGADA&zoom=1

Check out some of those images! Luckily I have a car and do not need to take the train but sometimes, its the fastest way to get somewhere. 

There are no credible music schools - only diploma courses or some Indian classical music colleges - which have no infrastructure and Indian classical music in our own country is dead.

Film music is a copy-paste of Hollywood or mix of bad Indian music.

But even after all of this, there is great talent in the city. The industry works. There is work and those who are really good or have the connections, find it. Ultimately, if you are really good, it wont be long till you get your chance to prove yourself in some form or another - thats what I believe. Of course, there are sad stories everywhere but then think about the banking guys! Everyone needs to make money to pay their bills. Luckily, the entertainment business has not been hit that badly because of the global economic crash!

I am guessing its the same over there as well. I was lucky, I found work 8 months after landing into Mumbai. But it was not steady till about 3 years in. 

I think, what you must take from what everyone else has said is that it is a hard life full of stupid people hanging around and these cities are not the best but that is what it takes to be in this kind of an industry where people put in millions of dollars - nobody likes to loose money. It is an insecure business. If you want to pack up at 8:30 PM so that you can catch a movie and get a beer at the local pub with friends, then this may not be the best for you. But then again, if you want to work with the kind of people that are in LA and the kind of projects that are made over there, then this is what it takes I guess. Its very similar in Mumbai as well. 

Even Bernard Herrmann had trouble and isn't he classified as one of the best film composers to have ever lived?

Say good bye to your social life, this is all about burning the midnight oil but if you are a film music freak as most of us - this isnt a problem or work for you - this is why you get up in the morning. In fact, I have problems doing other things!

Yes, what is important to keep in mind is financial security. If you have some money saved up or can get some sort of a day job then do it (something that does not work for long because writing music and practice takes hours) 

There is one interesting development in recent times that is being able to write music for libraries and various things from the comfort of your home studio or wherever you are.

For example, I have never been to LA and there are probably thousands of composers looking for work but I got approached by someone from LA to write for his music library which is now getting used for a new US TV show due to air in the summer.

They heard something I had put on Soundcloud and approached me. Even though people say that there are many composers there and most are more likely to be talented than you with the ability to write any kind of music in their sleep but are they all getting work? Its a bit of luck and just being available on every level. 

Good luck with your future and I say be positive, think about it and be practical but dont let your dreams get crushed. What is life without a little magic?


Tanuj.


----------



## Mike Greene (Apr 24, 2013)

Posts by JeffC, Andreas and jaredcowing are all particularly excellent, IMO.

Obviously, the number of talented aspiring composers (or singers or actors or whatever) is waaaayyyyyyy bigger than the number of possible careers that can be had, so you have to treat the move as a roll of the dice. Just like with gambling, if you can't afford the loss (financially *and* mentally,) then don't make the bet.

The advantage to being in Los Angeles isn't that so many clients are here. (Heck, my L.A. clients rarely even come to my studio anymore.) The advantage is that a higher percentage of people you'll randomly meet on the street are potentially useful contacts.

For example, the first record I ever played on as a session player was because I lived next door to the producer. He didn't know any other keyboard players (this was a rap record,) so he asked me if I'd play some keys for a hundred bucks. Total luck. But because it's L.A., this sort of thing happens. I now have gold records from rap on my wall.

My first commercial was a Hot Wheels commercial. I got that gig because we were at a party thrown by my wife's friend. A bunch of high school teachers. Turns out this woman's husband had a weekly poker game. Sounded like fun, so he invited me. Nothing to do with "the industry," mind you, just a bunch of regular guys. Except one guy who was directing a Hot Wheels spot and didn't like the usual composers. He knew I played rock and roll, so . . . the rest is history. Again, total luck. The point being that being in L.A. increases the odds of this sort of thing.

One other thing I'll add - I didn't come to L.A. to produce rap records or to score TV shows. I came to be a rock star. (Which I never became, obviously.) But by being flexible, I've had a pretty fun career. For that matter, one of the best session singers in L.A. didn't come here to be a singer. She came as a classical flautist! It's one of my favorite stories.

L.A.'s a great place with lots of opportunities. Making a career as a composer is a really long shot, but if you enjoy the city and take advantage of other opportunities that arise along the way, then it can be a great move either way. It's a perfect example of "it's the journey, not the destination."

Because who knows, you may discover that you're real passion will be designing surf boards. :mrgreen:


----------



## gsilbers (Apr 24, 2013)

jaredcowing @ Wed Apr 24 said:


> Andreas Moisa @ Wed Apr 24 said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, I really think you have to appreciate living in LA a little more. California is one of the most beautiful places.
> ...



oh for sure there are positives. i like this place. but we are trashing hollywood though, which sucks 

for the OP/outside LA folks: 

traffic must be the number 1 topic for everyone here. weather is always the same so traffic is the one ongoing issue. still every angelino prefers to not use public transportation even if they easily could. i think its a south west coast thing. 

also, everyone here is not from here  
i lived here about an year before i met someone who was raised and born in LA. 

its just amazing all the things going on. all the artists do side projects. events. night bike rides. veery good mueums which have new exibitions updated. etc. 
there are a lot of older movie presentations in theatres which you get to see the director/actors talking before or after. same deal with new movies but older ones is cool too. 


one thing i noticed, which maybe its just me, is that in LA poelpe will assume that you dont know anything. from tech stuff to simple everyday stuff. i think it must be a cultural thing that comes from so many people coming to LA to "make it" and not study or anything. 
so basically you need to sell your self on every conversation. so people around you 
will know that you know. which is another thing ni LA, friendships and work lines are very blurry. 
which imo gets LA that stereo type of superficialty. 
also, same as the south , people in LA do not like confrontation. in other words they wont say there is an issue, they will just dont hire you anymore. northwest people where much more blunt. 
in LA you never know who will be your next boss/job /gig so treat everyone nice. someones assistant will come to be the next producer etc. 

oh.. when i lived in NYC the cultural thing was that if you didnt undertand what someone said, they repeat the same exact thing but 20db louder. :shock: 
but those are just my wierd random oobservations from moving so much. :mrgreen:


----------



## germancomponist (Apr 24, 2013)

gsilbers @ Wed Apr 24 said:


> also, everyone here is not from here
> i lived here about an year before i met someone who was raised and born in LA.



 o=<


----------



## Madrigal (Apr 24, 2013)

> This is a picture of the local trains in Mumbai -
> 
> http://www.google.co.in/imgres?um=1&sa= ... ch&tbnid=R wPwK3_S62QinM:&imgrefurl=http://lifeinmumbai.co.in/238/&docid=AiJCCW7MXh5x-M&img url=http://lifeinmumbai.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/11101.jpg&w=420&h=240&e i=QRp4UbX3D4TMrQe-jIGADA&zoom=1



I love India :D 

Of course, I don't have to deal with all the negative since I don't live there permanently. You have an amazing country and from what I've been seeing, it's artistic refinement is maturing. 

I still think some of the greatest songs made for musicals have been made in Bollywood. I often find the arrangements pretty impressive in their style.


----------



## passenger57 (Apr 24, 2013)

I'm usually just trying to figure out a way to get out of LA! :lol:


----------



## germancomponist (Apr 24, 2013)

Madrigal @ Wed Apr 24 said:


> > This is a picture of the local trains in Mumbai -
> >
> > http://www.google.co.in/imgres?um=1&sa= ... ch&tbnid=R wPwK3_S62QinM:&imgrefurl=http://lifeinmumbai.co.in/238/&docid=AiJCCW7MXh5x-M&img url=http://lifeinmumbai.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/11101.jpg&w=420&h=240&e i=QRp4UbX3D4TMrQe-jIGADA&zoom=1
> 
> ...



Read the history books. Many many years ago, India was far ahead the western countries.


----------



## Simplesly (Apr 24, 2013)

SoCal born and raised (almost - parents moved here when I was very young) and lived in LA 14 years. Like everyone else has mentioned, it is a toilet bowl. It's dirty, smoggy, the roads suck, the transportation sucks, the people suck, the architecture sucks (unless it is pre-50s), it never rains, and it costs a fortune for a shitty apt. with no AC (seriously, why the hell do no places south of the 134 have AC?) As a city, it has very few redeeming qualities. For some reason though, some people still love it. You might be one!

If you want to start a career in Film/TV music in America, odds are that you will have to move there. And your odds will not be good. Notice i said Film/TV. You simply can't pimp yourself out at parties and bars and "industry mixers" if you don't live there. 

If it hasn't already been said, I think the best thing you can do is try to get a job assisting an established composer, even if it's part time. Most people I know who have done this moved on to bigger and better things. Also, you could try to get a job in sales at one of the boutique pro audio firms (not banjo mart or Sam's ass) and work your butt off in your free time. This will be one of the most soul-sucking experiences of your young life, but hey, you're in the right place - You WILL meet people this way, and maybe if you have enough personality, you get in, Nick Phoenix style. The danger is you might make too much money doing that and say "screw composing!" 

Whatever you end up doing, good luck.


----------



## ed buller (Apr 24, 2013)

well

i actually really enjoyed my time in la ( seven years ). Made lot's of good friends that i miss. Kids loved it. went on many really fun road trips . not many cities where you can drive to a beach, desert or snowy mountains all in the same day !!!

yup the music industry could be sucky....but its sucky all over the place.... For many people it's either there or prison ! Plus in LA there ARE people who are genuine, love what they do and recognise that in others.....trick is to find em !

good luck

ed


----------



## Marko Zirkovich (Apr 24, 2013)

Hey, even Hollywood isn't as bad as portrayed in some postings. Are there better, nicer places? Of course. But I've lived there for almost 7 years and never had any problems.


----------



## Lemmonz (Apr 25, 2013)

Making a living in the music industry is hard anywhere. It might be even more difficult in LA since most creative fields are saturated with excellent talent and awful talent alike. Unfortunately, some people can't seem to distinguish between the two so you can't really bank on talent to get you ahead.

I've been in LA for about 4-5 years and love it, especially coming from the midwest of the US. It's not for everyone, and there are a lot of things that can get in your way of enjoying it, but there are also tons of amazing things about LA. Hopefully you've been to visit the city before moving here. 

Finding a good area to live in is always important, so I recommend that, if you are moving here, you come out and look at places physically in person, not online. Some apartments will have an amazing photo online of their campus, but if they shift the camera a foot to the right or left it might be surround by some pretty sketchy looking places.

If you don't 'know' anyone out here to help get you started, it will be difficult. There's no one way to get into doing this and it seems those who can make living from it, have all gotten to where they are in their own way. You'll have to treat this excursion like an adventure and see where it takes you. Could turn out great, just ok, or the worst thing you've ever chosen to do.


----------



## Waywyn (Apr 25, 2013)

I recently had the chance to work with a pretty famous composer on quite some big upcoming "Hollywood movies", but I wasn't accepted (yet) since I wasn't a LA local.

This was the first time I actually missed, not being from or living in LA, but again: the first time in 10 years. So ...


----------



## José Herring (Apr 25, 2013)

I've lived in la since the late '90ies. In a year I did the ASCAP film composer's seminar. It was 15 or so very talented youngish composers all chompin' at the bit to make something of themselves in Hollywood including the guitarist of a very popular rock band at the time. Every one of us were truly capable composers. Every one could score a film or TV show rather well. All but three of us have since quit the business. 

But, it's not just composers. Almost every film maker that I met at the time is either not making films any more or have become lawyers or something.

I say that not to scare you off. I personally always welcome people coming into town. I always think that without new people the same old people keep getting the same old jobs and hackin' their way through it.

In all honesty the hardest thing to do is to get up in the morning and keep trying in spite of any reason not to. You'll get people attacking you at every corner. And that's no joke. But it's become easier on that end lately. Right now there are so few people working that some of the most viscous people have gone into apathy and don't really bother me any more. 

So unless you have like a burning desire to be here and do this work and willing to stick it out even when your own mama is telling you to give it up, then I wouldn't think that you'd stand much of a chance. Maybe you might get lucky, but I've never really seen that happen.

So if you can commit to what is perhaps one of the most brutal environments to live in artistically, then by all means come to LA. It can be a lot of fun here. You'll meet a lot of people. And there are really a lot of great people here.

I've met many composers here and many of them have been a great inspiration.

Another thing to note is that of the composers that are doing big jobs these days, many of them have left town and many others never lived here. 

I think it's become truly a global market place.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Apr 25, 2013)

@ Mike Greene:
Big fella, coming to LA when you and I came is very different from coming here now.

I di forget one thing. If you ar an outdoor-sy type and sunny days are a big deal to you, you may like LA perhaps more than a bookish, indoor-sy kind of guy like me.


----------



## Andreas Moisa (Apr 25, 2013)

I recently had a dinner meeting with a client and showed them around a little in my hometown Leipzig, which was surprisingy beautiful this evening. Maybe you LA Guys should walk up to the Runyon Canyon view point and get a new perspective on where you live. It's only the center of the world's entertainment industry and the world is looking up to you  It's also the only place where you can meet José


----------



## Lemmonz (Apr 25, 2013)

Also, if you are planning to come to LA, be prepared for this:

http://youtu.be/cBiR2rKU69U


----------



## charlieclouser (Apr 25, 2013)

The outlying areas surrounding LA are the hidden treasure... I lived in the heart of Hollywood for a long time - Nichols Canyon for four years (nice and quiet and woodsy) and Beachwood Canyon for seven years (also quiet but less woodsy), and at the time I thought it was amazing... until I moved out to Topanga. Now I look out over a huge valley with no neighbors, I can park 20 cars in my driveway, I have much less traffic, a nice upscale outdoor mall-type thing with a great movie theater that's always empty, great restaurants, an Apple store four miles away, and no hipster contingent clogging up the joint. The canyons in Hollywood were great to live in but when you come down to go to dinner or the store you're in the midst of youth-hipster chaos.

Calabasas, Woodland Hills, Topanga - love it in this area. I allow an hour to get to whatever meetings I need to get to, but this is the same as when I lived in Hollywood as back then I had to thread my way through the clogged surface streets. Hollywood to Culver City or Santa Monica = 1 hour of traffic lights and left turn lanes. Topanga to Santa Monica = 30 minutes on the Pacific Coast Highway with the ocean off to your right.

Living in the outlying areas gives you the "California lifestyle" as opposed to the "Hollywood lifestyle". I'm surrounded by green, the fog rolls in in the mornings, and the air is fresh and clean with the beach a couple of miles away. A drive through the empty twisting roads of the canyons to grab lunch in Malibu beats a slog through traffic lights to try to find parking in Hollywood.

In ten years I've almost never been to a meeting that was actually in Hollywood, except at my agent's offices. Every spotting session or meeting I do is in Burbank, Santa Monica, Culver City, etc., and it's actually quicker for me to get to these areas from where I am now. No matter what, you're leaving the house an hour before the scheduled meeting time, except for that one-in-ten chance that you live in Hollywood and the meeting's at Paramount (which happened to me exactly one time).

A lot of folks suggest going to film festivals and meeting directors that way - I've never been to one, but to be fair I had a good track record in the record business to use as a starting point. The only get-togethers that I participate in are those with other composers, so I can get a perspective on the competition - their setups, schooling, and attitudes. I do, however, think that working as an assistant to an established composer can be a great way in - I did this back in the late 1980s and it was a great insight into how things are done and proved invaluable when I was just striking out on my own. In fact, my first composing gig grew out of partnering up with the guy I formerly worked for. It was 20 years later, and he had more or less gotten out of the business, but his agents got us a tv series that proved to be more down my alley than his, so we teamed up and shared credit equally while I did most of the actual work and he provided aesthetic advice. When that series ended, his agents took me on as a solo composer and then things really started to happen. 

Of course, many composers came out of the Zimmer system in this manner - they get hired to play, orchestrate, or co-compose on some of Hans's scores and then strike out on their own once they've got the system down and forged relationships with agents, directors, and production execs. Music supervisors are also a great group to court - if you can get your library of cues into their hands and they can place them in temp scores then you are already in the door. A few gigs I've done have had cues from my previous work in the temp, courtesy of the Music Supervisor and/or picture editor.

Over the years I've hired two assistants that cold-called my agents looking specifically for me as they had heard my work on records or movies they liked, and both of them went on to work for other composers - one works for Clint Mansell now, and the other works for Wendy and Lisa. So searching out composers you like and contacting their agents looking for work as an assistant might not be as crazy as it seems.


----------



## jaredcowing (Apr 25, 2013)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Apr 25 said:


> @ Mike Greene:
> I di forget one thing. If you ar an outdoor-sy type and sunny days are a big deal to you, you may like LA perhaps more than a bookish, indoor-sy kind of guy like me.



My philosophy is that you can be bookish and outdoorsy at the same time. 8) Since we all spend alot of time sitting down staring at screens, being able to get out into nature quickly to hike and get some oxygen in your blood is a great thing about LA that you can't quite do in other cities. Getting out on the trails is also a good way to get away from all the noise and distractions, it actually helps me sometimes when I need to focus and let the music percolate a little in my head.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Apr 25, 2013)

jaredcowing @ Thu Apr 25 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Thu Apr 25 said:
> 
> 
> > @ Mike Greene:
> ...



What can I say, I'm a city boy, and LA is just not a city in the same sense that Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, and NYC are. I don't like fresh air, I like air conditioning. I don't like bright sunlight, I like soft light bulbs. 

Now if I could afford to live near the ocean, all bets would be off, but lots of luck to any LA resident trying to afford that. To me, a shack on the water beats the pants off a mansion in a canyon.


----------



## guydoingmusic (Apr 25, 2013)

mverta @ Tue Apr 23 said:


> I muscled a career out of this place for the same reason that if I got a life prison sentence, I'd learn to suck dick real good. If you want to be in the business, bend over, and bring your favorite blankie to bite on.



Nearly pissed myself, laughing at this. Ahhh.... I needed that!

Brad


----------



## Greg (Apr 25, 2013)

charlieclouser @ Thu Apr 25 said:


> The outlying areas surrounding LA are the hidden treasure...



So true! My first time to LA, I fell in love with the Topanga area. Such a nice little tucked away city that has a very artistic / homely vibe, yet it's only a few minutes from Santa Monica & the valley. Plus you have a plethora of gorgeous hiking trails around Eagle Rock and quick access to the PCH. I dream of someday owning a home up there


----------



## Ryan Scully (Apr 25, 2013)

This is really a great thread and an excellent read from many perspectives - great to hear so many experiences both from the long and relatively short term. I live in NY about 45 minutes outside of NYC in a truly majestic area in the Hudson Valley. I've had a stable and well paying day job for almost 10 years now - would I love to be doing music full time - absolutely - it's just not feasible for me at the moment. Property tax/rent/expenses/etc are just as brutal out here as it is out west. On the positive side(as others have noted), you can be very happy, busy and compensated working with various roles in music composition remotely. One of the positives of the day job side is that if you want to do as much as you can with music(as I do and beyond :D ) you can really focus on what you truly WANT to do because your not banking your financial security on it completely..If I had a choice and the best option would be to work full time out west in LA I would certainly do it over my current situation - But the advice on getting the day job with decent pay/benefits/security is certainly prudent IMO especially in our economic climate within the US. The day may come when you have to make a big decision in one direction or another(as in any field) but you could at least be potentially more prepared for it with careful planning. 

Thanks again for all who have contributed to this thread!


Ryan :D


----------



## sstern (May 17, 2013)

Actually, I'm moving to LA next week by myself, permanently!  A long road led me to this place.. lets see what happens. Just graduated from MFA film music program in Chicago and now we have a 1 month summer semester in LA (including internships with big name composers) after which all the opportunities are open. 

Also, if anyone wants to hire a cool guy who is very good with DAWs manipulation, orchestration, composition and songwriting, realistic mockups and notation programs, mixing, recording and sampling instruments, piano/guitar/bass/vocal performance and great ear, drop me a message


----------



## Jimbo 88 (May 17, 2013)

Hey Sergei!

Gonna miss having you here in Chicago. Good luck in LA.

And anyone who is interested, Sergei is a very talented composer, orchestrator and musician. He will do well.


Again, good luck.


----------



## AndrewS (May 17, 2013)

My word of advice is, if you get a job as an assistant, try to live as close to work as possible, (or at least somewhere with a very manageable commute).

The last thing you want to be doing is getting stuck in 2 hours of traffic going to work in the morning, work a 16 hour day, then have to drive back home.


----------



## Farkle (May 17, 2013)

mverta @ Tue Apr 23 said:


> I moved here to LA 23 years ago. If I was mayor, I'd replace the welcome signs at the airport with a picture of people's dreams skewered on pikes, and smarmy, conscience-less executives giving themselves awards for doing it. What a shithole; and an expensive one, too. If you want to see up-close what the theoretical maximum amount of narcissistic stupidity looks like in a human being, though, it's a Petri dish.
> 
> I muscled a career out of this place for the same reason that if I got a life prison sentence, I'd learn to suck dick real good. If you want to be in the business, bend over, and bring your favorite blankie to bite on.
> 
> ...



Mike, you are AWESOME. I couldn't stop laughing (and crying a bit) at the accuracy, and awesome delivery of this post!  I just sent it to several of my friends that run small East Coast video game studios... they're laughing out loud!

As much as I love the friends I've made that are out in LA, and as much as I respect the hard work and slogging that it takes for the LA composers and musicians to make it out there, I'm SOOO glad I stayed in Philly.

The best phrase I ever heard about working in the industry, BTW (and this is not geographic, it applies to NY, LA, San Fran, etc) is this...

"Mike, if you want to be a commercial composer, you're gonna get f$#%ed in the ass. Always. The only choice you have is... where do you wanna get f#$%ed in the ass. You wanna get [email protected]#$% in the ass in the bedroom? You wanna get bent over the kitchen counter? How about in the garage? THAT is the only choice you have."

>8o 
:twisted: 
_-)


----------



## dannthr (May 17, 2013)

The one good thing about living in LA--this sketch will become HILARIOUS:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/350669


----------



## Peter Alexander (May 17, 2013)

GRIT
http://www.ted.com/talks/angela_lee_duckworth_the_key_to_success_grit.html?fb_ref=talk (http://www.ted.com/talks/angela_lee_duc ... b_ref=talk)


----------



## sstern (May 18, 2013)

Thanks a lot, jimbo88! I had a great teachers


----------

