# Aroha, a piece for Spitfire's Albion One, and some thoughts.



## SymphonicSamples (Mar 15, 2016)

I finally got around to testing Albion One a couple of weeks ago and created a new template in Cubase and took it for a test drive. I must say I love the sound stage captured in these samples !! The piece is made using two Spitfire Libraries and consists almost entirely of Albion One with a very minimal use of Redux for a few Timpani Hits to mix with Albion One's Darwin Perc Ensemble, and a few Cymbal hits with a touch of the Glock. The piece was written in Finale and exported to Cubase and in the process I found for me Albion One really shined in many area's from Romantic Orchestration to modern scoring to a Hollywood sound, an extremely versatile library . Hope you enjoy , any thoughts welcome .


----------



## zacnelson (Mar 15, 2016)

This is brilliant Matt!


----------



## elpedro (Mar 16, 2016)

Really good! Enjoyed the listen! thanks for sharing...


----------



## Carles (Mar 16, 2016)

That would make it as a good Albion One demo Matt. I have to confess that didn't listen much that library and while cohesiveness was expected, actually surprised me sound wise. Found all sections nice and crisp and expression seems to react very well at least in your hands (good orchestration and mixing also helps of course).
Title sounds very Kiwi BTW  isn't that "love" in Maori?
Cheers!


----------



## devonmyles (Mar 16, 2016)

This is lovely.
Thanks for posting.


----------



## Nuno (Mar 16, 2016)

Hi Matt

I love what you have done with Albion One in this track!


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Mar 16, 2016)

Zac, elpedro, thank you !!



Carles said:


> That would make it as a good Albion One demo Matt


Thanks Carles. You know it's the first time I've written a piece predominantly using one library. Normally I would use a number of libraries to get similar results, and certainly don't have another library that could cover so much ground on it's own in a piece like this. As for the title Aroha, indeed it means Love in Maori. My partners Maori, and it's her middle name  

devonmyles , Nuno , thankyou , much appreciated.


----------



## Resoded (Mar 19, 2016)

Cool stuff Matt, really like the direction you took rather than the over the top epic that One also does very well.


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Mar 19, 2016)

Thanks Erik, yeah Albion One is certainly capable of going into the Epic realm, it's a diverse beast with a gentle side which I like


----------



## markleake (Mar 21, 2016)

I really like this Matt, its a great demo of Albion. I'll have to try out Albion One more than I have so far. You've managed to get it to sound real and varied. Some parts sound very articulate for just instrument sections being played.


----------



## rottoy (Mar 21, 2016)

Easily the most interesting use of Albion One I've heard so far. Marvelous piece, Matt!


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Mar 22, 2016)

markleake said:


> I really like this Matt, its a great demo of Albion. I'll have to try out Albion One more than I have so far. You've managed to get it to sound real and varied. Some parts sound very articulate for just instrument sections being played.


Thanks Mark, initially when I imported the piece into Cubase and setup a basic template for Albion I got to the normal point where I would add more libraries and tried some Hollywood Brass for some chordal harmonies and found in the mix it just didn't work as well and I got the results I wanted from Albion in the piece without needing to add anything else. I did do some panning to get the stage the way I wanted on a few things, but that was about it.



rottoy said:


> Easily the most interesting use of Albion One I've heard so far. Marvelous piece, Matt!


Thank you rottoy , much appreciated !!


----------



## OleJoergensen (Mar 22, 2016)

Nice composition, the sound is really good, I especially like the strings. Did you do any E.Q to the strings?
Thank you for sharing.
I hope that one day I can buy an album with your music.


----------



## Noam Guterman (Mar 22, 2016)

Beautiful !!!!! Thanks for sharing with us


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Mar 23, 2016)

OleJoergensen said:


> Nice composition, the sound is really good, I especially like the strings. Did you do any E.Q to the strings?
> Thank you for sharing.
> I hope that one day I can buy an album with your music.


Thank you Ole. I did apply some EQ to the strings in the upper frequencies, can't recall exactly what as I did it in 2 stages, if you want more info let me know and I'll load the project up and get the details. As for an album , I have a bunch of tracks I have kept aside for a project or possible library submissions, I'd be more than happy to share it with you when it's done 



Noam Guterman said:


> Beautiful !!!!! Thanks for sharing with us


Thank you Noam !!


----------



## H.R. (Mar 28, 2016)

This my favorite piece from all of your stuff Matt. Amazing!


----------



## Baron Greuner (Mar 28, 2016)

Very good. Well done!


----------



## novaburst (Mar 28, 2016)

Nice wow factor about it, there is a part I think at 1:25 when the fast staccatos on the trumpets come in had a star wars feel about it,but it really sounded good, and how you captured the mood in your piece, real good work

Edit the instrument have a great sound to them


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Mar 29, 2016)

H.R. said:


> This my favorite piece from all of your stuff Matt. Amazing!


Thank H.R. much appreciated.



Baron Greuner said:


> Very good. Well done!


Cheers Baron 



novaburst said:


> Nice wow factor about it, there is a part I think at 1:25 when the fast staccatos on the trumpets come in had a star wars feel about it,but it really sounded good, and how you captured the mood in your piece, real good work
> 
> Edit the instrument have a great sound to them



Thanks Nova much appreciated. It's hard not to hear a little J.W or H.Z in film related pieces in this period of time, and I love my Star Wars  The composer that was the most influence to me when writing/orchestration parts of this was Wagner, whom I have had some obsessive periods of listening to over the years


----------



## novaburst (Mar 29, 2016)

SymphonicSamples said:


> Thanks Nova much appreciated. It's hard not to hear a little J.W or H.Z in film related pieces in this period of time, and I love my Star Wars  The composer that was the most influence to me when writing/orchestration parts of this was Wagner, whom I have had some obsessive periods of listening to over the years



R Wagner yes a good composer very strong with horns and I can also here his influence in J Williams too


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Jun 1, 2016)

novaburst said:


> R Wagner yes a good composer very strong with horns and I can also here his influence in J Williams too


It's amazing how much influence Wagner's overtures have had on film music. Those god damn German musical monsters that change the sonic landscape on us in every period


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Jun 1, 2016)

And he wasn't even just a _musical_ monster either!


----------



## mickeyl (Jun 1, 2016)

Matt, this is breathtaking, both in composition and execution. It's lovely to hear Albion One being used in something _semi-epic_, if you will.


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Jun 3, 2016)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> And he wasn't even just a _musical_ monster either!


Indeed ..


mickeyl said:


> Matt, this is breathtaking, both in composition and execution. It's lovely to hear Albion One being used in something _semi-epic_, if you will.


Thank you Mickeyl , much appreciated. Albion One is certainly capable of luscious subtle moments all the way to grand  Such a great library to get things quickly fleshed out.


----------



## Rodney Money (Jun 3, 2016)

I noticed that you first started out in Finale and then you bounced the midi. How much of the original midi stayed quantized, or did you have to move everything little by little in Cubase or did the humanization in Finale's playback translate in the midi?


----------



## Rodney Money (Jun 3, 2016)

Also if I may speak compositionally, just be aware that your fast bassoon lines don't cause a comic effect. For a piece like this I might have used the bassoon as a blending instrument to add more weight to either a mid/low string instrument or brass on that line to keep it "more serious."

And also if I may, since now I've heard more cinematic music on the forum, I've heard this trend at 1:26 that tends to take three personalities in a period of just 10 seconds in a lot of media music. What feels as though the glorious theme finally reaching its climax turns into, "Cool chord progression, man." It's like three personalities in 10 seconds. Compositionally, it's very rich and it does sound right but takes me away emotionally. It starts with a great theme, then modulates, and cadences into Harry Potter. Compositionally, I love it, emotionally left me behind. If memory serves me correctly, I've heard this in Blakus' music also and some of my closest friends. The music is full of colors, great timbres, great use of orchestration and rendering skills, but it always seems like it's either looking for a main theme or based on small motives modulating their way through the track looking for the next instrument to grab hold on them. I do want to say though, I enjoyed your track very much though and your use of Albion.


----------



## wst3 (Jun 3, 2016)

That's a pretty amazing production - I'm having a difficult time wrapping my head around the "done with Albion One" thing!!! Starting with a lovely composition and orchestration/arrangement doesn't hurt...

May I ask some technical questions???

I purchased the original Albion 1, and later upgraded to Albion ONE. In both cases I've had a really difficult time NOT thinking in terms of individual parts. And when I do think in terms of individual parts (I compose primarily in Finale) it just sounds awful.

This could be my composition, it could be my orchestration, or it could be I'm not using Albion properly. Can you provide some tips or pointers? I'd love to be able to take advantage of Albion, and the whole writing-with-the-ensemble thing, but I just haven't gotten there yet.

Thanks, and thanks for a really lovely piece!


----------



## Ian Dorsch (Jun 3, 2016)

Bravo! This is some really lovely writing, and terrific use of the lib.


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Jun 4, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> I noticed that you first started out in Finale and then you bounced the midi. How much of the original midi stayed quantized, or did you have to move everything little by little in Cubase or did the humanization in Finale's playback translate in the midi?



Hey Rodney, I love writing in Finale, like to see harmonies vertically  , but also love working in Cubase ground up as well, in this case the piece started in Finale. I have custom made software integration for Finale I developed a couple of years back which allows me to get a level of detail from a score similar to me using Cubase but spending less time. I can shift a score with everything intact, Key switches/ articulations, dynamics tempo, basically all the score markings are exported into Cubase all ready to go and then allow me to take it further if required. This piece "The hours After" is 100% Finale using my library extensions , just me hitting play in Finale and a realtime recording of the score.

The piece "Alpha Planet Z" in my signature below is a score exported from Finale to Cubase , which if you were to hear the Finale output and then the Cubase output for the most part it's the same quality, just when I imported it into Cubase I added a few things that were not originally in the Finale score and changed a few things, but the tempo, dynamics , all score markings including KS are accurately exported and correct CC relevant for all instruments. Sort of a 1 to 1 shift which includes Human Playback settings. I spent a lot of time developing it in the past to get Finale to sound as realistic as possible from standard score markings 



Rodney Money said:


> Also if I may speak compositionally, just be aware that your fast bassoon lines don't cause a comic effect. For a piece like this I might have used the bassoon as a blending instrument to add more weight to either a mid/low string instrument or brass on that line to keep it "more serious."
> 
> And also if I may, since now I've heard more cinematic music on the forum, I've heard this trend at 1:26 that tends to take three personalities in a period of just 10 seconds in a lot of media music. What feels as though the glorious theme finally reaching its climax turns into, "Cool chord progression, man." It's like three personalities in 10 seconds. Compositionally, it's very rich and it does sound right but takes me away emotionally. It starts with a great theme, then modulates, and cadences into Harry Potter. Compositionally, I love it, emotionally left me behind. If memory serves me correctly, I've heard this in Blakus' music also and some of my closest friends. The music is full of colors, great timbres, great use of orchestration and rendering skills, but it always seems like it's either looking for a main theme or based on small motives modulating their way through the track looking for the next instrument to grab hold on them. I do want to say though, I enjoyed your track very much though and your use of Albion.



Thanks for taking the time to reply with your thoughts Rodney. The bassoon was not intended as a comic effect but a simple forward motion into the next section which the horns took over. The piece was writing in a couple of days in my spare time, in most part with the initial intent of starting to use A1 for the first time and getting to know it. I actually ended up going back to it writing far more music in Finale developing themes within a much longer framework using a tradition sonata form structure, which ended up somewhat different to this. Something I add into my "one day in a perfect world getting it performed list" , or a piece that had enough material that I could use for a score, but the first version was short for a -maybe in the future- music library submission which led to seeing how far I could go with just Albion in a short framework. As you would know the initial theme is repeated thought out either melodically or rhythmically, so it's always an iteration of the same simple 5 note motif that opens the piece. But I was happy with what I got from my first sitting with Albion within a short framework. I'm glad there were things you enjoyed within the piece.


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Jun 4, 2016)

wst3 said:


> That's a pretty amazing production - I'm having a difficult time wrapping my head around the "done with Albion One" thing!!! Starting with a lovely composition and orchestration/arrangement doesn't hurt...
> 
> May I ask some technical questions???
> 
> ...



Hey Bill , thank you. I never owned Albion , but bought Albion One which was a lovely surprise I must say. The approach I took was to treat it the same way I would if i had separate instruments. For example , and this applied to the rest of the sections. -Strings- I loaded the ensemble string patch 5 times. One each for Violins 1, 2 , Violas , Cello , Basses. Then loaded 5 more for the legato patch for each which gave me all the articulations needs , 2 patches for V1 , 2 for V2 and so on. Which was effectively 5 of the same string ensemble patch loaded and 5 of the same legato patch load. Then picking the relevant articulation from the ensemble patches such as Strings Low for basses and so on. Within this I panned some patches with the intent to emulate individual parts of the sections more. So the patches for Cellos for example are panned more to the right to make it fell more like a cello section recorded on it's own. I applied that approach for the entire string section and the remaining sections. I thinking from memory I added some close mic to the default mic settings for short string articulations and that was about it. The joy with Albion One for me was I found it hard to make the winds sound bad  , which is a wonderful thing. With Hollywood Woodwinds for example, if you voice the instruments as it would be in full score and play the same exact thing the live ensemble magic which Spitfire has captured especially beautifully in the high winds gets lost. If that doesn't help much or you are curious about something more specific , fire away. If it's of any help I could do a screen capture from Cubase and output one section of the orchestra / specific part on it's own to hear something isolated.


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Jun 4, 2016)

Ian Dorsch said:


> Bravo! This is some really lovely writing, and terrific use of the lib.


Thank you Ian , much appreciated .


----------



## zacnelson (Jun 5, 2016)

Rodney, it was interesting to read your comments. I first heard `Aroha' a couple of months ago when it was first posted here, and I loved the bassoon part, I found it a rather unique and fresh colour. Nothing comedic about it.

But my main reaction is regarding the `emotion' element. I understand that this is always going to be a subjective topic!  I feel as much emotion in Aroha as I have in any other piece of music I enjoy, whether by real or virtual instruments. Personally I feel that it makes no difference if it's real or fake. Sometimes virtual instruments can achieve emotion because the possibilities are endless and the composer can draw out the finest details without the pressures of time deadlines or uncooperative musicians. 

Also, the way some modern soundtracks are recorded, mixed and composed these days (especially TV shows), they sound a bit `virtual' no matter how real the players are. It's a very slick and compressed sound with a lot of repetitive structures that don't really capitalise on the personality of the individual parts.

I appreciate you were diving into the virtual vs real debate, I am merely going onto that topic as a tangent, simply to reinforce that I detect an undeniable emotion in Aroha and it seems plain to me that in the right hands, a sample library can produce great wonders of dynamics and beauty, and it's wonderful how this technology is unleashing great composers who would otherwise be stuck in their lounge rooms with the tunes stuck in their head! Thank you Spitfire for helping us to bring our ideas to life!


----------



## Allen Constantine (Jun 5, 2016)

Gorgeous piece of music, Matt! 
Love the JW vibe!!!


----------



## Rodney Money (Jun 5, 2016)

zacnelson said:


> Rodney, it was interesting to read your comments. I first heard `Aroha' a couple of months ago when it was first posted here, and I loved the bassoon part, I found it a rather unique and fresh colour. Nothing comedic about it.
> 
> But my main reaction is regarding the `emotion' element. I understand that this is always going to be a subjective topic!  I feel as much emotion in Aroha as I have in any other piece of music I enjoy, whether by real or virtual instruments. Personally I feel that it makes no difference if it's real or fake. Sometimes virtual instruments can achieve emotion because the possibilities are endless and the composer can draw out the finest details without the pressures of time deadlines or uncooperative musicians.
> 
> ...


Thank you my friend for reading my comments, but please read them again because they have nothing to do with what you wrote about.


----------



## wst3 (Jun 5, 2016)

SymphonicSamples said:


> The approach I took was to treat it the same way I would if i had separate instruments. For example , and this applied to the rest of the sections. -Strings- I loaded the ensemble string patch 5 times. One each for Violins 1, 2 , Violas , Cello , Basses. Then loaded 5 more for the legato patch for each which gave me all the articulations needs , 2 patches for V1 , 2 for V2 and so on. Which was effectively 5 of the same string ensemble patch loaded and 5 of the same legato patch load. Then picking the relevant articulation from the ensemble patches such as Strings Low for basses and so on.



Dang - I never even considered that approach. It won't cost me any extra memory, and it does reduce the differences between my current workflow and the ensemble approach. Guess where I'm headed when I'm done typing...



SymphonicSamples said:


> Within this I panned some patches with the intent to emulate individual parts of the sections more.



I've never gotten far enough along to need to worry about panning using Albion or Orchestral Essentials alone<G>. That is another benefit to your approach.



SymphonicSamples said:


> The joy with Albion One for me was I found it hard to make the winds sound bad  , which is a wonderful thing.



I would concur, I find myself using the Albion winds a lot, blended with CineWinds or VSL, they add some life, especially with VSL.



SymphonicSamples said:


> If that doesn't help much or you are curious about something more specific , fire away. If it's of any help I could do a screen capture from Cubase and output one section of the orchestra / specific part on it's own to hear something isolated.



I'm curious about a lot of things<G>... but I think one of my mental blocks was having so few tracks for each section. I'm accustomed to thinking in terms of Violin 1 & 2, Viola, Cello, and maybe bass. For some reason I find it difficult to think that way when there is only one string track.

Not sure a screen capture would help now - I'm still too far behind the curve. If I reach the point where it helps I will remember your generous offer.

One last thing - I was listening to Aroha last night in the studio, at a pretty fair volume<G>, and my 14 year old son wanted to know which JW score it was from. I think that's pretty high praise all by itself, but when told him it was not JW he though perhaps you should take his spot!


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Jun 8, 2016)

zacnelson said:


> I feel as much emotion in Aroha as I have in any other piece of music I enjoy



Hey Zac , thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. I totally agree with you. How music individually effects us is dependent on so many factors, and indeed subjective. 



Rodney Money said:


> It starts with a great theme, then modulates, and cadences into Harry Potter.



Not sure how it related to Harry Potter, but would be interest in knowing what piece. I've seen the films but only really know the main theme which is wonderful.



AllenConstantine said:


> Gorgeous piece of music, Matt!



Cheers Allen , thank you .


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Jun 8, 2016)

wst3 said:


> Dang - I never even considered that approach. It won't cost me any extra memory, and it does reduce the differences between my current workflow and the ensemble approach. Guess where I'm headed when I'm done typing...



Hey Bill, I'm glad it was of some help and by all means if your curious about anything when you get down the track fire away  Actually come to think of it , I also used a plugin to narrow the image on a few things like the cellos as well as panning. A lovely little gem someone in the forum shared some time back.

http://www.alexhilton.net/A1AUDIO/index.php/a1stereocontrol



wst3 said:


> One last thing - I was listening to Aroha last night in the studio, at a pretty fair volume<G>, and my 14 year old son wanted to know which JW score it was from. I think that's pretty high praise all by itself, but when told him it was not JW he though perhaps you should take his spot!



Often children can be brutally honest when it comes to what they do and don't like with music, so you'll have to thank you son for his overly kind comments for me !! Does he have an interest in music and following in your footsteps ? The next generation of composers who grow up in families where they have access to all the amazing tools, technology and knowledge passed down will be interesting to see how film scoring will shift over time


----------



## Akarin (Sep 20, 2018)

I'm a bit late to the party by about two years but I just wanted to tell you that this is the absolute best demo of Albion One that I have heard. As I'm trying to limit myself to using only Albion One for a project, I searched for a lot of demo tracks. And I mean, a lot. Yours is an order of magnitude above the others, including the "official" ones. I'm not only speaking about how you made Albion sound but also about the composition.


----------



## Gerald (Sep 21, 2018)

Great work! Thanks for sharing


----------



## Alex Fraser (Sep 22, 2018)

This was a pleasant thread/listen to rise from the depths!

Great work with Albion ONE. It's a great sounding library with a huge range. It's weird how it's somehow been pigeon-holed into a "beginner library for epic music" role.
Once again, you've proved it's the composer's abilities that count most of all.


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Sep 23, 2018)

Hey Akarin, cheers for sharing your kind thoughts, much appreciated. I had to take a listen to the track again myself as it's been a long time since I've heard it. I did actually send an email to Spitfire with a link way back when, but they never replied. You may have brought an old thread back from the grave, but you also brought me back from the grave. I haven't posted on Vi for a long time, I completely stopped doing music for some time and have only started writing again for myself recently. I'll say one thing I've saved a lot of money not buying any new libraries for a long time


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Sep 23, 2018)

Hey Gerald, thank you.


----------



## SymphonicSamples (Sep 23, 2018)

Alex Fraser said:


> It's a great sounding library with a huge range. It's weird how it's somehow been pigeon-holed into a "beginner library for epic music" role.


Hey Alex, cheers for sharing your thoughts, much appreciated. I have to agree with you, Albion One certainly is workhorse with many goto patches which can achieve a wide range of emotions, and again I totally agree it's charm and strength far exceeds Epic music.


----------

