# Slate RAVEN vs standard touchscreen?



## Carlos Lopez-Real (Jun 20, 2019)

Hi everyone. I'm looking to add a touchscreen to my setup, and I'd love to hear from anyone who uses one.

It's primarily to minimise my use of the mouse when editing in the piano roll and with plugins. (I'm starting to get signs of overuse in my hand/wrist after hours of editing automation etc). I have a lot of custom key commands in Logic and also use Composer Tools Pro on my iPad, so the new touchscreen wouldn't be to replace them.

I was initially thinking of a large touchscreen monitor (like the Acer 27 inch) together with touch-base.com drivers. But I'm wondering about the possible pros and cons of that versus a Slate RAVEN MTi2. As far as I can see, the RAVEN really comes into its own with the mixer overlay, and the batch command system. I'm not sure how much use I'd make of the multi-touch mixer (rather than simply using one fader at a time). I also understand that the batch command system is configured to work with the standard DAW key commands, so I'd have to rebuild anything related to my existing custom key commands. Maybe that'd be OK. And the Raven's screen resolution is only 1920X1080, whereas other 27 inch touchscreens could be higher resolution. Not sure if that's a pro or a con though...

Anyway, anyone with experience of either of these routes, please do let me know your thoughts!


----------



## Ryan Fultz (Jun 20, 2019)

This isn't what you were talking about, but I just wanted to put it out there that I used to have rsi in my forearms due to drumming, piano playing, and all the keyboard/mouse related things we due as well as tons of neck, midback, and shoulder pain. Add a car accident and I was getting numbness in my hands playing drums and my neck and shoulder pain was getting way out of hand, this stayed that way for a year and a half and was only made slightly better with physical therapy. But two things really helped:

The minor help was getting an ergonomic mouse, it was a little difficult for a couple days, but its amazing just how much it has taken off the strain by having my arm angled vertically. Now a regular mouse feels kind of clunky and poorly designed when I use one.

The really important thing though was getting stronger in my body. I really can't convey what being able to deadlift comfortably over 405lbs has done for my day to day. Through regular resistance training (I like powerlifting, but any resistance training is good)I went from always being sore/constantly stressed about my pain getting worse to living a pain free life. None of the things that used to bother me do anymore. My body can handle far greater stress than drumming or piano playing or sitting at a keyboard all day, day after day, can put on it. I can sit in a chair for 8 hours straight and pop up like I just sat down. There have been a lot of studies in the last few years showing pain management can in a lot of cases be solved by the person just getting stronger in the are they have pain.

Looking forward to other gear related answers though as I'm looking at touch screen options myself. Sorry my response wasn't exactly what you are looking for, but it changed my life in such a meaningful way that I always want to tell others when they are looking at similar situations I had.


----------



## Carlos Lopez-Real (Jun 20, 2019)

Ryan Fultz said:


> This isn't what you were talking about, but...



Hey @Ryan Fultz thanks for sharing this. It's actually really helpful. The touchscreen idea is partly motivated by wanting to take care of myself physically, but also as I think it may unlock other efficiencies in working. Everything you say about physical health makes absolute sense, so I'll definitely factor both exercise and a new mouse into the equation...


----------



## unclecheeks (Jun 21, 2019)

I don't have any experience with either the Raven or regular touch monitor, but aren't most touch monitors only single point of touch, while the Raven multitouch? 

What I've found works for me is a Wacom Cintiq 22 pen display. Using pen for precise tasks like MIDI/audio editing is much better and faster than fingers (and mouse). So it's sort of the best of both worlds - the precision of a mouse, with the immediacy of being able to "grab" things directly on the screen.

That, along with a Genovation ControlPad situated next to the Wacom for triggering important sw functions (cut, copy, delete, etc) with the other hand has worked miracles for my RSI.


----------



## Ryan Fultz (Jun 21, 2019)

unclecheeks said:


> I don't have any experience with either the Raven or regular touch monitor, but aren't most touch monitors only single point of touch, while the Raven multitouch?
> 
> What I've found works for me is a Wacom Cintiq 22 pen display. Using pen for precise tasks like MIDI/audio editing is much better and faster than fingers (and mouse). So it's sort of the best of both worlds - the precision of a mouse, with the immediacy of being able to "grab" things directly on the screen.
> 
> That, along with a Genovation ControlPad situated next to the Wacom for triggering important sw functions (cut, copy, delete, etc) with the other hand has worked miracles for my RSI.




You know, I basically hit a point with samples where I don't have much desire for new stuff unless they fit one of the small holes in my template or seem like they will truly ease my workflow, but you just added a ton of ideas when it comes to hardware.... my wallet curses you.


----------



## unclecheeks (Jun 21, 2019)

Ryan Fultz said:


> You know, I basically hit a point with samples where I don't have much desire for new stuff unless they fit one of the small holes in my template or seem like they will truly ease my workflow, but you just added a ton of ideas when it comes to hardware.... my wallet curses you.



Haha, I'm sorry! But yea, if you're struggling with RSI, give the Wacom a try! There are also other cheaper Chinese knockoffs on Amazon, although the quality is not as high but still pretty useable. I've also struggled with RSI for the past 10 years or so, so I totally relate to your post and situation. I've gone through just about every type of input device - left hand, right hand, joystick mouse, trackball, on and on! - and the pen grip just seems to be the least aggravating (and most productive) for me. Second is the 3M joystick mouse, comfortable although a bit less precise.

Another thing I do on systems where I'm using regular mouse and no Wacom display is I set up shortcuts on my keyboard to act as mouse clicks, for example F1=left click, F2=right click, so at least that moves those fine motor movements from the mousing hand to the other one. ControllerMate on Mac and AutoHotKey on Windows are good tools for keyboard remapping. 

Anyway, good luck with the RSI, Ryan! PM me if you ever have a hole burning in your wallet, I've got lots of ideas!


----------



## Ryan Fultz (Jun 21, 2019)

unclecheeks said:


> Haha, I'm sorry! But yea, if you're struggling with RSI, give the Wacom a try! There are also other cheaper Chinese knockoffs on Amazon, although the quality is not as high but still pretty useable. I've also struggled with RSI for the past 10 years or so, so I totally relate to your post and situation. I've gone through just about every type of input device - left hand, right hand, joystick mouse, trackball, on and on! - and the pen grip just seems to be the least aggravating (and most productive) for me. Second is the 3M joystick mouse, comfortable although a bit less precise.
> 
> Another thing I do on systems where I'm using regular mouse and no Wacom display is I set up shortcuts on my keyboard to act as mouse clicks, for example F1=left click, F2=right click, so at least that moves those fine motor movements from the mousing hand to the other one. ControllerMate on Mac and AutoHotKey on Windows are good tools for keyboard remapping.
> 
> Anyway, good luck with the RSI, Ryan! PM me if you ever have a hole burning in your wallet, I've got lots of ideas!



If you check out my earlier post you'll see I no longer deal with those issues and what solved them for me, but I'm very "optimization" minded and always looking for ways that make me approach from a different angle so there's some really great ideas you have that I have a feeling I'll be incorporating soon.


----------



## Carlos Lopez-Real (Jun 21, 2019)

unclecheeks said:


> I don't have any experience with either the Raven or regular touch monitor, but aren't most touch monitors only single point of touch, while the Raven multitouch?
> 
> What I've found works for me is a Wacom Cintiq 22 pen display. Using pen for precise tasks like MIDI/audio editing is much better and faster than fingers (and mouse). So it's sort of the best of both worlds - the precision of a mouse, with the immediacy of being able to "grab" things directly on the screen.
> 
> That, along with a Genovation ControlPad situated next to the Wacom for triggering important sw functions (cut, copy, delete, etc) with the other hand has worked miracles for my RSI.



Great ideas here, many thanks! Do you use the Wacom with a Mac or PC? And which DAW? Though hopefully it's compatible with many variations...


----------



## samphony (Jun 21, 2019)

I had the acer 27” for a while now and i friend of mine uses the raven mti2 since 2017. Keep in mind both use the touch-base.com drivers which basically enable all sorts of multi touch gestures on mac. You are then able to touch plugins directly. All these displays support multi touch. But an application has to be written with multi touch functionality. One example is studio one. Other daws like logic and cubase are single touch because they are only aware of single mouse pointer input. 

Also I’ve installed the raven in my friends studio and he only uses the raven batch commander with it because the raven exclusive mixer overlay sucks and doesn’t suits his workflow.


----------



## unclecheeks (Jun 21, 2019)

Carlos Lopez-Real said:


> Great ideas here, many thanks! Do you use the Wacom with a Mac or PC? And which DAW? Though hopefully it's compatible with many variations...



Thanks! I use the Wacom with a Windows 7 machine, and Ableton Live. Since it's essentially just a mouse (and display), it can be used with any DAW or software. Some imaging software, like the Adobe stuff, can of course use some of the special functions, like pen pressure, etc. There are some macro buttons directly on the display that can be assigned to things like keystrokes and key combos, but I use a separate programmable pad with more buttons for that.

Wacom should also work with MacOS as far as i know. 

And good point about software needing to support multi-touch. In my case, Ableton doesn't yet, so the single input with the Wacom pen is totally sufficient for me. Think Wacom also makes (made?) a version of the Cintiq that supports both pen AND touch.


----------



## Carlos Lopez-Real (Jun 21, 2019)

samphony said:


> I had the acer 27” for a while now and i friend of mine uses the raven mti2 since 2017. Keep in mind both use the touch-base.com drivers which basically enable all sorts of multi touch gestures on mac. You are then able to touch plugins directly. All these displays support multi touch. But an application has to be written with multi touch functionality. One example is studio one. Other daws like logic and cubase are single touch because they are only aware of single mouse pointer input.
> 
> Also I’ve installed the raven in my friends studio and he only uses the raven batch commander with it because the raven exclusive mixer overlay sucks and doesn’t suits his workflow.



Really interesting, thanks! So it sounds like the only advantage of the raven over other touch screens would be the batch commander?


----------



## unclecheeks (Jun 21, 2019)

One thing I forgot to mention - what’s nice about the Cintiq/pen approach is that you can actually rest your palm on the display while you’re editing, and it won’t trigger it - it only responds to the pen tip. With touch screens you’d be hovering your hand(s) over it, which could potentially add more stress to your hands.


----------



## samphony (Jun 21, 2019)

I too find that there is a gap in that market. I would like to have a high quality ipad/ surface studio like touch screen with all that retina res, pencil etc.


----------

