# Starter Orchestral Library for a newbie?



## NewbiecomposerLA (Dec 13, 2020)

Hi there!

I'm a high school student just starting out and am amazed by all the expertise here. I was hoping for some guidance on realistic sounding starter orchestral libraries? I work in Logic and Ableton and have a Komplete Kontrol keyboard. I have a good piano pack, but am looking for realistic strings, percussion and woodwinds. The ones I have just sound really synth. I checked out the Vienna Smart Orchestra and the Native Instruments Symphony Essentials. Any advice on those or other ideas? Thank you so much!


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## ennbr (Dec 13, 2020)

You certainly can't go wrong with the free Spitfire Discover 




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Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra


The heart of British musicBBC Symphony Orchestra represents a new standard in orchestral sampling. A whole orchestra at your fingertips, spanning strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion. With three editions to choose from, each fully interoperable, BBCSO is a universal starting point for music...



www.spitfireaudio.com


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## NewbiecomposerLA (Dec 13, 2020)

Thank you! Is it samples or plug-ins? I'm looking for instruments I can control.


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## jdrcomposer (Dec 13, 2020)

ennbr said:


> You certainly can't go wrong with the free Spitfire Discover
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would even suggest BBC Core! I jumped right into east west SO as a beginner, and while I was able to get a grip on it after years of learning patch names, practicing with it, etc, I would have killed for BBC core’s simplicity. Just load up your instrument of choice and you have everything you need right there. The value IMO is insane.


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## NewbiecomposerLA (Dec 13, 2020)

Thank you! I checked out discover and the violins sounded a bit digital? I don't mind spending some (it's my christmas present) for something that really sounds great! I will check out BBC Core.


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## jcrosby (Dec 13, 2020)

Nucleus is an awesome 1st library. Even though I have a ton of dedicated section libraries I use it all the time.

There's a lite version as well but it's quite limited compared to the full version... That said you get the cost of lite applied to the full version, and if for any reason you didn't like it (which I highly doubt..) it wouldn't be an expensive loss.

These two videos show that it has a really wide range it covers very well:

(The piano's the only thing in this that isn't from Nucleus.)




Mind you this was done with Lite... Even with its limited articulations it still sounds pretty great.


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## jdrcomposer (Dec 13, 2020)

NewbiecomposerLA said:


> Thank you! I checked out discover and the violins sounded a bit digital? I don't mind spending some (it's my christmas present) for something that really sounds great! I will check out BBC Core.



I honestly don’t think some of the demos do Core justice. Discover sounds synthetic to me too (but, again, free library). Check out the walkthroughs as well. If you’d like, I can PM you some examples of what the core strings sound like. 

The Hollywood series by East West is hugely flexible (and cheap with a composer cloud subscription), but can be difficult to get around. 

I don’t own the NI symphonic line, but I really don’t like what I’ve heard from it.

I do like the sound of nucleus, but it seems to be a bit of a one trick pony from what I’ve heard (a very good pony, but maybe not the most flexible.) If you want an instant film score sound, nucleus appears to be a great option.


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## Rory (Dec 13, 2020)

This YouTube channel, by a Masters student at the Royal College of Music named Dan Keen, has a number of videos about, and composing with, the BBC library. He gives an overview in this video:


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## NewbiecomposerLA (Dec 13, 2020)

This is all so helpful, thank you! BBC Core seems to be more what I'm looking for, but I will look into Nucleus too.


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## Rory (Dec 13, 2020)

Dan Keen also made this video on Spitfire Audio's channel about a composition that he made with Logic and BBC Pro:


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## Rory (Dec 13, 2020)

Christian Henson, one of the co-founders of Spitfire Audio, talks in this video about the differences between Discover, Core and Pro:




You might also check out this web page. Spitfire has made free templates for Logic and other major DAWs for the BBC library. The templates were created by Henson and Sound Engineer Jake Jackson: https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/templates


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## NewbiecomposerLA (Dec 13, 2020)

Yeah, Core seems great for what I'm looking for. Thanks everyone!


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## Trash Panda (Dec 13, 2020)

So much of the answer depends on the type of sound you are aiming to produce. Classical? Modern? Movie scores? Hybrid? Trailer music? Rock opera? Aggressive and bombastic or subtle and nuanced?


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## Rory (Dec 13, 2020)

NewbiecomposerLA said:


> Yeah, Core seems great for what I'm looking for. Thanks everyone!




You should also check out Spitfire's LABS Libraries. These are free. One of them - Soft Piano - is said to be the most downloaded library ever: https://labs.spitfireaudio.com/#category=&search=&new=true

Spitfire was also behind the creation of the Pianobook community, itself a really good resource: https://www.pianobook.co.uk


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## NewbiecomposerLA (Dec 13, 2020)

Trash Panda said:


> So much of the answer depends on the type of sound you are aiming to produce. Classical? Modern? Movie scores? Hybrid? Trailer music? Rock opera? Aggressive and bombastic or subtle and nuanced?


I have a piano background and am primarily looking to do film scoring and music production, less bombastic, more intimate, though I'd like the option to go bigger. I just really dislike the digital sound of the orchestra instruments I have now, so hoping for something that sounds the closest to real (that I can afford, anyway). Also, something I can grow with would be great, since I'm still very much learning.


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 13, 2020)

NewbiecomposerLA said:


> I have a piano background and am primarily looking to do film scoring and music production, less bombastic, more intimate, though I'd like the option to go bigger. I just really dislike the digital sound of the orchestra instruments I have now, so hoping for something that sounds the closest to real (that I can afford, anyway). Also, something I can grow with would be great, since I'm still very much learning.



Spitfire BBC Orchestra is definitely a great choice. The basic version (Discover) is free (fill out a survey and wait two weeks). It will also give you a credit for the upgrade to the next tier (Core), which is on sale for 40% off in December. If you do the survey to get Discover now, you'll get it just in time before the sale ends for the upgrade to Core ($220 with 40% discount and $49 credit for having Discover).

You won't find anything with near this flexibility and sound for this price during this sale. And you can upgrade to Pro (with a full credit for the cost of Core) down the line for more instruments, section leaders, and more mic options than you will ever need.


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 13, 2020)

OK, went through the rest of the thread.

Nucleus is also a good option, but is currently not on sale, and may be more large/"epic" than what you are looking for. Maybe it will go on sale again around Christmas.

Spitfire's Abbey Road One is another library to look at, if you decide Core isn't for you. It's not on sale right now, but should go back to its intro pricing ($349) in a few days for Spitfire's Christmas sale. It's mostly an ensemble library (high strings and low strings instead of V1/V2/Va/Vc/Cb, etc.) and doesn't have legatos (which will be add-ons, coming next year). So you'll lose the flexibility and control that you would get from BBC Core, over the ease-of-use of pre-orchestrated ensembles in Abbey Road One. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it sounds to me like you want to write out full orchestrations. It does sounds incredible though.


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## mybadmemory (Dec 13, 2020)

BBCSO Core: if you like slower, softer, more classical sounding music and are prepared to write with separate sections and solo instruments. 

Berlin Inspire: if you want something that might be a little easier to get into since it’s ensemble based. This also means more limited in the long run though. 

Nucleus: if you don’t want to chose between sections, solos, and ensembles. You get both. More modern, epic, hybrid sounding though so be prepared for that. 

Spitfire Originals: if you want something cheaper to just dip your toes in. Ensembles only. Good sounding but limited. 

Spitfire Labs: regardless of which you choose. Get labs to complement it since they’re free, and has a great number of additional instruments. 


Is probably go for BBCSO or Nucleus depending on which sound you like best. Let my know if you have any questions regarding any of them!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 14, 2020)

I don't believe in the term "starter orchestral library". Every library is going to sound somewhat "synthy" out of the box, it really comes down to programming. Even lower budget libraries can run circles around big name libraries when in the right hands. Just scour YouTube (and the Reviews thread) for library walkthroughs. I personally recommend EastWest Composer Cloud, as I feel it's he best bang for the buck. But....you may not like it. As a student, you can get the educational discount, which I recently saw on sale for $10 per month.


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## NewbiecomposerLA (Dec 14, 2020)

Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to offer advice, I so appreciate it as I'm just starting out and finding my way. I'd love the flexibility of solo instruments and I really liked the demos of BBC Core -- so I think I'll be getting that for x-mas. I will also check out the Spitfire labs!


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## Kirk1701 (Dec 14, 2020)

Discover is a great place to start, even if you plan to jump directly to Core. You can get Discover free and save $49 on the upgrade to Core.


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 14, 2020)

NewbiecomposerLA said:


> Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to offer advice, I so appreciate it as I'm just starting out and finding my way. I'd love the flexibility of solo instruments and I really liked the demos of BBC Core -- so I think I'll be getting that for x-mas. I will also check out the Spitfire labs!



Just to clarify, you don't get solos (i.e. a single player) with Core, that is only in BBCSO Pro. I'm going to assume that when you say "solo instruments", you mean individual sections (1st violins, 2nd violins, french horns, bassoons, etc.), which *is* what you get in Core.

Core should suit you well. It's not perfect (nothing is), and you eventually will get other libraries to add new things that aren't in Core, or to replace any specific instruments you may not care for. But it has everything you need to get started, for an unbeatable price during this sale. There are even templates for the major DAWs available at https://www.spitfireaudiothepage.com/templates.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Dec 14, 2020)

I don't have the Spitfire BBC library and can't speak to its quality, but I think those suggesting it are probably giving good advice. I use and like a lot of other Spitfire products, and the company has a ton of helpful "how-to" content on their YouTube channel which can be applied to libraries from other developers as well. I think the best thing to do is to get your hands dirty with whatever you have and/or can reasonably afford, and as your programming and composing skills improve you'll realize where the holes are in your samples and can add new libraries as you go. Of course it is endless, but something like BBC that is all-in-one seems like it would give you a good baseline to compare to.


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## Rory (Dec 14, 2020)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Just to clarify, you don't get solos (i.e. a single player) with Core, that is only in BBCSO Pro.



That's only correct for the strings, which are ensemble. For the other sections, Core does include solo instruments. The screen capture below, just on woodwinds, is from the Core User Manual. Pro adds the strings leaders.


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## mybadmemory (Dec 14, 2020)

Core and LABS together is a wonderful starter kit. It will get you far!


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## Rory (Dec 15, 2020)

Jeremy Gillam said:


> Spitfire ... has a ton of helpful "how-to" content on their YouTube channel which can be applied to libraries from other developers as well.



Yes, these are resources that @NewbiecomposerLA may find useful:

Spitfire Audio main YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/spitfireaudiollp

Spitfire Audio technical channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgCnKiQMTllso4-nRTN2m3w

Spitfire principal Christian Henson's personal channel (@christianhenson on this forum): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXCXxhRVYvBOX45_gxr0iHA

Spitfire principal Paul Thomson's personal channel (@paulthomson on this forum): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn6zlZ7B7krwOsqp8smQlcQ

Pianobook channel (Spitfire started the Pianobook community, and continues to be actively involved): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWAzN-DQgCiNiY9W4XHcEug

Main BBC SO discussion thread on this forum, currently 456 pages (good place to ask questions): https://vi-control.net/community/th...alling”-bbc-symphony-orchestra.84345/page-456


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## Greeno (Dec 15, 2020)

Not to confuse you but worth also checking out The Orchestra Complete 2 by Sonuscore, it has enembles, solos, choir, piano, organ and phrases and has exportable midi and is light on CPU. Feeling -wise it is quite general sounding so could be a good start point.

I have it and also NI Symphony Series which I think it is good, winds are a bit weaker but perc (sonuscore), brass (Soundiron)and strings (audiobro)are decent enough, especially if you already are on the komplete bandwagon it makes a lot of sense. The library is kind of a jack of all trades in terms of feeling and can do some epic sounds I think.


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## Macrawn (Dec 15, 2020)

$270 for BBCSO core on sale. Seems like one of the best options out there. Nothing is as good for that price and it's the whole orchestra. Not much sounds as good at any price frankly. 

Orchestra Complete 2 is also good if you want something that helps you make the music. It has patterns and ensembles that help you get started quick. Could be a good option.


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## labornvain (Dec 15, 2020)

The orchestra by Sonuscore.









THE ORCHESTRA - Orchestra Library - Ensemble Engine - Sonuscore


THE ORCHESTRA is a revolutionary orchestra library whose heart is our breakthrough Ensemble-Engine that empowers you to convert your ideas into music.




sonuscore.com


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## Geomir (Dec 15, 2020)

I think that right now one of the best value-for-money deals for a complete, cohesive, balanced, great-sounding orchestral library can be found here:






CLOSED - SOLD SOLD SOLD Steinberg Iconica Opus : consider trade or partial trade for PS Pandora/Core or Nuendo 10 Price drop £350


Hi there, I am selling Steinberg Iconica Opus , to help fund my MA course in composition starting in January. Will sell on here for £350 though if the buyer wants the security of ebay, can do it but price will be slightly higher due to fees etc Will do a partial trade for Project Sam...




vi-control.net





What you are getting for this price is just insane. Check some Steinberg Iconica demos and walkthroughs before you pull the trigger for BBC SO (which is still a solid choice of course). 

Also - for the price (usually on sale 50-60%) - EWHO is still an excellent choice. And it will always be, since a very promising huge update is also coming!


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 16, 2020)

Rory said:


> That's only correct for the strings, which are ensemble. For the other sections, Core does include solo instruments. The screen capture below, just on woodwinds, is from the Core User Manual. Pro adds the strings leaders.





Wow, that makes BBCSO Core an even greater deal! I was going on Spitfire's own comparison grid:


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## NewbiecomposerLA (Dec 16, 2020)

I ordered the BBC Core and I love it -- instruments sound real and the controls are intuitive. Looking forward to exploring these other options as I grow! Thank you so much everyone!


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 16, 2020)

NewbiecomposerLA said:


> I ordered the BBC Core and I love it -- instruments sound real and the controls are intuitive. Looking forward to exploring these other options as I grow! Thank you so much everyone!




Awesome!

On a side note, you _may_ want an inexpensive ensemble library to go along with BBCSO Core. Even if it's just for sketching and getting ideas down before you split up and orchestrate everything into the individual parts, I think it's still quite useful. Ensemble libraries also tend to be more towards the "epic" side of things, so it could also augment things if you need some extra "oomph" somewhere.

Spitfire does have the Originals series for $29 each. There's Epic Strings (large string section), Intimate Strings (smaller chamber strings section), and Epic Brass & Woodwinds (you get both in this one for $29). Pick one of the two string libraries, along with the Brass & Woodwinds library, and you'll have ensemble patches for everything for just under $60. 

There are other options as well, like Audio Imperia Nucleus Lite at $99 (I think I've seen it on sale before for $79). That one has a choir ensemble patch too (and some percussion). I can't think of any other options like this under $100, but if this is something that interests you, maybe someone else has more suggestions.

It could be helpful as you learn, although just throwing yourself into writing for each section from the start has its own merits!


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## mybadmemory (Dec 16, 2020)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Awesome!
> 
> On a side note, you _may_ want an inexpensive ensemble library to go along with BBCSO Core. Even if it's just for sketching and getting ideas down before you split up and orchestrate everything into the individual parts, I think it's still quite useful. Ensemble libraries also tend to be more towards the "epic" side of things, so it could also augment things if you need some extra "oomph" somewhere.
> 
> ...



The sound is VERY different between BBCSO and Originals though. I like them both for different things but I would find it hard to start with one and continue with the other when they sound so different.

I would first wait for the update that is due soon just to see if we get some ensemble patches in it. And if not, rather create my own from the Core patches. Or go for Nucleus Lite which room sound matches BBCSO better.

Not saying the Originals aren’t great value. The two strings packages sound and play great! Just they sound very different to BBCSO. The brass and woodwinds feels weaker, with octaves only and weird sounding releases.


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## Dr.BrainyPopsin (Dec 17, 2020)

why you only speak about two libs BBCSO Core and nucleus or citing berlin? what about vienna? and the rest??? are they not worth for a newbie?


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 17, 2020)

Dr.BrainyPopsin said:


> why you only speak about two libs BBCSO Core and nucleus or citing berlin? what about vienna? and the rest??? are they not worth for a newbie?



Sure, the Vienna libraries are great. But other than the Smart Orchestra, which is an ensemble library with a very limited set of articulations, they are also priced MUCH higher than what was being discussed.


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 17, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> The sound is VERY different between BBCSO and Originals though. I like them both for different things but I would find it hard to start with one and continue with the other when they sound so different.



Yes, they sound quite different. But for getting ideas down quickly, or just noodling around to get some ideas, it would still be very useful.

I own Spitfire's Symphonic Orchestra, so I have the Masse library for this, which has the advantage of being made from the same samples. But even if I only had an ensemble library which sounded different than my main library, I would still be able to use it for sketching or inspiration, and sometimes even layering (if a specific section of a work calls for a different sound).

Using ensemble libraries or not is definitely a personal preference thing. But with the low cost of the Spitfire Originals series or Nucleus Lite, even if you end up figuring out that you don't like using ensembles, it was only a few bucks. And you still have them available should you ever need that different sound for something.


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## AndreasHe (Dec 20, 2020)

NewbiecomposerLA said:


> I have a piano background and am primarily looking to do film scoring and music production, less bombastic, more intimate, though I'd like the option to go bigger. I just really dislike the digital sound of the orchestra instruments I have now, so hoping for something that sounds the closest to real (that I can afford, anyway). Also, something I can grow with would be great, since I'm still very much learning.



For intimate style I would recommend 
- spitfire, maybe Albion
- Ark2
- Nucleus (also for epic) 

Epic style:
- Ark1
- all AI instruments like Jaeger and Nucleus

For me BBC and NI things are a bit thin. But I prefer Epic. But NI Stradivari is a nice solo instrument.


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## Al Maurice (Dec 20, 2020)

IMHO -- until you develop a musical ear -- having a few short articulations and a sustain and legato will do you fine. So if you are starting out -- it's better to find some smaller libraries that to help you define which midi workflow works best for you: that will take a while to develop.

Once you've navigated the art of midi programming, and have acquired a repertorie of orchestral patterns; you'll quickly reach out for an orchestral palette to paint in tonal color, rhythmic progression and separation to your compositional lines and phrases. That's when something like BBCSO Core or OT's Inspire series becomes more handy.


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## Dr.BrainyPopsin (Dec 20, 2020)

AndreasHe said:


> For intimate style I would recommend
> - spitfire, maybe Albion
> - Ark2
> - Nucleus (also for epic)
> ...


If I am a newbie and I wanna get BBC core or something approaching it? Like Vienna Zodiac or Nucleus? will I die from it? lol which one do you recommend? btw? the cheapest is BBC core it is on sale now


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## Dr.BrainyPopsin (Dec 20, 2020)

Al Maurice said:


> IMHO -- until you develop a musical ear -- having a few short articulations and a sustain and legato will do you fine. So if you are starting out -- it's better to find some smaller libraries that to help you define which midi workflow works best for you: that will take a while to develop.
> 
> Once you've navigated the art of midi programming, and have acquired a repertorie of orchestral patterns; you'll quickly reach out for an orchestral palette to paint in tonal color, rhythmic progression and separation to your compositional lines and phrases. That's when something like BBCSO Core or OT's Inspire series becomes more handy.


f I am a newbie and I wanna get BBC core or something approaching it? Like Vienna Zodiac or Nucleus? will I die from it? lol which one do you recommend? btw? the cheapest is BBC core it is on sale now


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## Justin L. Franks (Dec 20, 2020)

Dr.BrainyPopsin said:


> f I am a newbie and I wanna get BBC core or something approaching it? Like Vienna Zodiac or Nucleus? will I die from it? lol which one do you recommend? btw? the cheapest is BBC core it is on sale now



Zodiac is strings only. You would need brass, woodwinds, and percussion to go along with it.

BBCSO Core is the best value right now for a full orchestral library with individual sections, not ensembles.

Nucleus is also good, but has a limited set of articulations. It leans more toward the "epic" sound.

For starting out and writing out parts for the individual sections (as opposed to an ensemble library like Albion), you're not going to find a better value than BBCSO Core during this sale. If you don't want to write out full orchestrations, you should look elsewhere. At least for now – there have been some rumors that the upcoming BBCSO update will add ensemble patches. But this has not been confirmed, and it is all but guaranteed that it won't be released until after the current sale.


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## Dr.BrainyPopsin (Dec 20, 2020)

Justin L. Franks said:


> Zodiac is strings only. You would need brass, woodwinds, and percussion to go along with it.
> 
> BBCSO Core is the best value right now for a full orchestral library with individual sections, not ensembles.
> 
> ...


May be I should complete with free libraries they ve got ensemble I think; thanks for your help


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## AndreasHe (Dec 20, 2020)

Please checkout the option to get the simple BBC version "discover" for free. You would need to fill a survey and wait 14 days. Good way to see how it works.






Nucleus should't be bought outside a sale IMHO, but you are a few days too late.


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## Dr.BrainyPopsin (Dec 20, 2020)

AndreasHe said:


> Please checkout the option to get the simple BBC version "discover" for free. You would need to fill a survey and wait 14 days. Good way to see how it works.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks a lot i have already applied for it


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