# Omnisphere: Tips for sampling my own synths to create presets?



## vitocorleone123 (Jun 23, 2022)

I'm giving Omnisphere a second (and likely final) chance. I decided I'm generally not even bothering to look at any presets, since I think the overabundance is part of what drove me away the first time. Instead, I'm going the path of only creating my own, starting with the virtual analog side of things. I've been making some nice analog-ish pads using the multitude of waveforms that come with it.

I have some hardware synths I could sample. But what makes for a more usable sample within Omnisphere? Is there a certain key or pitch for the sample that works better? Sample length (should I try single cycle like the Omni waveforms)? Mono or stereo? Sample rate or bit depth? Is it best to trim the samples points at the zero line (forget what that's called as I generally stopped working with individual samples for instruments a long time ago)?

I'm seeking tips, pointers, links, or anything that would help me get started. I already know how to get samples in. I don't know how to start thinking about what makes a decent sample for Omni or how to prepare the samples. Thanks!

I tried doing some searching on YT but didn't seem to find what I was looking for. I may also not be using the correct search terms - not knowing what I don't know, etc.


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## sostenuto (Jun 23, 2022)

Takes a bit of searching through extensive set of Videos _ 25 pages _ yet PluginGuru older Omni tutorials have been useful here. His many Omni expansion releases, also have useful tidbits, detail _ imho. 
Earlier Livestreams _ but waaay tough to go back now for just those dealing with Omni.






Videos - PluginGuru.com







www.pluginguru.com


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## vitocorleone123 (Jun 23, 2022)

sostenuto said:


> Takes a bit of searching through extensive set of Videos _ 25 pages _ yet PluginGuru older Omni tutorials have been useful here. His many Omni expansion releases, also have useful tidbits, detail _ imho.
> Earlier Livestreams _ but waaay tough to go back now for just those dealing with Omni.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I was hoping to avoid those, since he kinda gets on my nerves of the few videos I tried - but, yes, there's no arguing that he's knowledgeable. I'll definitely hunt through those if they end up being the best resource overall.


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## sostenuto (Jun 23, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Thanks. I was hoping to avoid those, since he kinda gets on my nerves of the few videos I tried - but, yes, there's no arguing that he's knowledgeable. I'll definitely hunt through those if they end up being the best resource overall.


Ha ! Got it ....... Waay back, (page 24 of 25) he did (3) focused vids called 'Quik-E' #24 (Omni Tips n Tricks) _ #25 Advanced Omni Pt 1 _ #26 Advanced Omni Pt 2. Maybe these are useful, maybe not.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jun 23, 2022)

So far this is the best video, but there's not much to it. So, maybe, there's just not much to learning how to do it well.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jun 25, 2022)

I was hoping a pro at this would jump in and give some pointers....

In the mean time, I found this video


And this free and clunky looking software to create looped sounds that's used in the video rather than single shot samples.
https://www.bjoernbojahr.de/endlesswav.html

I can say that IT WORKS. I sampled the beautiful but basic Digitone sine wave and have now created my first Omni preset with a sample of my own (that isn't a one-shot). It ain't much. But it's a start! On to more complex things later/tomorrow.


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## PatrickS (Jun 26, 2022)

Slightly dated but still an excellent all-round introduction to Omnisphere.

Nov 27, 2017 - Help! I just bought Omnisphere 2! Beginner Help Video​


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## PatrickS (Jun 26, 2022)

Now with link!


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## Bee_Abney (Jun 26, 2022)

Just a few thoughts; mostly I’m just glad to have this thread to learn from.

Making loops is a bit of an art. Cutting at a zero point is nearly always best. If you can’t do that, then you still want both ends to tie together, both left and right. Omnisphere might be able to cross fade, though, which is a great time-saver but isn’t ideal.

Omnisphere seems to prefer shorter samples; I tend to use longer, slightly evolving ones without looping in Falcon. If the cylces are all the same, and you’ve looped it nicely, there’s no reason to have a longer sample.

A granular layer helps smooth things over or to make the most of a very short sample that still gives you a tone or texture that you want. Not very relevant for analog subtractive synthesis, though.

The key for subtractive is going to be sampling a range of oscillator settings with nothing else on them, then use Omnisphere’s internal filters, envelopes, etc. If the hardware filter or effects have particularly nice sounds that you want to capture, that’s fine too. But you may then be better off with a full mutli-sampler like Kontakt. Though Omnisphere will still be a great use of such a sample.

In the end, I say, I think I’d offer two tips. First, it’s just a synth. It’s powerful and has a great sound. Throw on a chain of oscillators, envelopes, filers and effects, wiggle the knobs and dials, and beauty will reveal itself. Second, if you are making sounds for yourself, make them for specific uses and keep them sonically small enough to fit in with your mix.


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## sostenuto (Jun 26, 2022)

Spectrasonics has full set of Omni videos on their site. Perhaps not nuanced for v2.8, but surely useful for new user needing solid start.

https://www.spectrasonics.net/video...D=all&q=omnisphere&Search+Video+Button=Search

(note) Link is for page 1 of 3 (bottom of page). New user _ go to p3, then p2.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jun 26, 2022)

Side note: I’m not completely new to Omnisphere (I’ve had it for 2 years or so) - just new to creating *good* samples for use in my own presets in Omnisphere.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jun 26, 2022)

I won't update with every little success.

... after this. 

A played an approximated saw wave from the Digitone (quite pretty) with no fx and no envelope except a tiny bit of release. I then used that software I linked to above and fiddled with it - turning off the Auto feature since it always gets it wrong so far on these simple waveforms - which took some time. However, it eventually landed on something perfect. Saved it out, imported into Omni, and... it's even MORE beautiful, I think (better, more invisible loop points). And I added in a Voyager saw softly to B to thicken it, added some built in fx, and I'm quite happy with the result. Completely usable and playable.

I should say I tried a different sound earlier in the day and failed to find a loop point that worked and ended up discarding it. So I'm 50/50 today.

If learn anything more that's significant, or happen to do some masterful preset (ha), I'll share again. Of course, any experts in this sampling-for-Omnisphere goal are free to comment at any time!


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## JasonSchoepfer (Jul 3, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I won't update with every little success.
> 
> ... after this.
> 
> ...


Glad to help if I can. I do a lot of custom samples for my collections and am also using the same loop tool as it is doing the job extremely well. Also if anyone would like to look at releasing a full collection, I would be interested in discussing it as I do have a few designers on board and love helping bring new collections to life with the experience and processes I have learned all these years.


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## Pier (Jul 12, 2022)

It's pretty amazing with the popularity of Omnisphere it's still so basic in terms of using and importing samples.

I remember being able to set loop points in FastTracker.






For the uninitiated, FT was a DOS software to write mods. Something like a very primitive DAW that had a multitrack sequencer which could trigger samplers. It didn't have midi or even mixer IIRC.

Over the years I've seen Spectrasonics invest into all the hardware integration stuff instead of adding user multisamples, better filters, looping points, etc. Maybe they're waiting for v3?


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 12, 2022)

Pier said:


> It's pretty amazing with the popularity of Omnisphere it's still so basic in terms of using and importing samples.
> 
> I remember being able to set loop points in FastTracker.
> 
> ...


ST3 > FT2 was my start in music. I didn't even get a MIDI controller until well after the year 2000.

I 100% agree that Omnisphere is bizarrely limited at helping people create their own presets using samples for a $400+ software synth known for presets utilizing samples.


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## Pier (Jul 12, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> ST3 > FT2 was my start in music. I didn't even get a MIDI controller until well after the year 2000.
> 
> I 100% agree that Omnisphere is bizarrely limited at helping people create their own presets using samples for a $400+ software synth known for presets utilizing samples.


Same!

I stumbled upon FT2 in a Future Music CD back around 97-98. Used it for a couple of years and even made an album with it. And then someone showed me Cubase VST and the NI virtual stuff (Battery, Absynth, Pro52) and I never touched FT again 😂

I also didn't get a midi controller until 2003.


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## JasonSchoepfer (Jul 12, 2022)

Pier said:


> It's pretty amazing with the popularity of Omnisphere it's still so basic in terms of using and importing samples.
> 
> I remember being able to set loop points in FastTracker.
> 
> ...


So Spectrasonics does not want Omnisphere to be a sampler like Kontakt. Eric has said it many times and I don’t see it ever changing as it’s not what they want Omnisphere to be. For multisampled additions- that’s where Sonic Extensions comes in plus the new 2 effects for each one. If we want to add to Omnisphere that is their solution and it’s honestly not a bad solution either. I have hacked the system so to speak with my split bias technique which lets me spread 4 samples across the keyrange in zones for a single patch. It honestly has given me endless new ideas and I am coming to terms with the idea that multisample support wouldn’t be an improvement for Omni. So much can be done still that hasn’t been done in Omni yet.


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## Pier (Jul 12, 2022)

JasonSchoepfer said:


> For multisampled additions- that’s where Sonic Extensions comes in plus the new 2 effects for each one.


But how does that work as a third party sound designer? Can you use those additions to make presets? Would users be required to buy the extension first?

PhasePlant has an elegant solution for this. The core already includes all the modules available. If the user opens a preset that uses a module they haven't purchased, they still can use the preset, but they won't be able to edit that particular module.



JasonSchoepfer said:


> So Spectrasonics does not want Omnisphere to be a sampler like Kontakt. Eric has said it many times and I don’t see it ever changing as it’s not what they want Omnisphere to be.


I agree Kontakt is super deep, but they could at least add basic functionality like looping points, multisamples in a single layer, maybe round robins, etc. (Sorry I'm not sure about the terminology I think they are called layers).

These features wouldn't even need to be in Omnisphere itself. They could release an editor like SoundPaint does, or even just a spec for a text file that configures this so that others can create tools to solve this with a GUI. Internally Spectrasonics must already have something like this to create their own multisamples.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 12, 2022)

Pier said:


> But how does that work as a third party sound designer? Can you use those additions to make presets? Would users be required to buy the extension first?
> 
> PhasePlant has an elegant solution for this. The core already includes all the modules available. If the user opens a preset that uses a module they haven't purchased, they still can use the preset, but they won't be able to edit that particular module.
> 
> ...


The user has to buy the extension in order to use any third-party presets that employ the samples or effects in the extension. Just like the user has to buy Keyscape or Trillian to use presets that draw samples from them.


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## Nico5 (Jul 12, 2022)

Pier said:


> It's pretty amazing with the popularity of Omnisphere it's still so basic in terms of using and importing samples.


I think it's just a different business model. -- And that has many implications.

Different people come from a different personal angle. Some more from a sound designer angle, others more from a software platform angle.

With Eric it's never been a secret, that he comes in very much primarily from a sound designer angle. That some of the software made by Spectrasonics ended up becoming a popular 3rd party sound designer platform almost seems more accidental than by design.

As users we're often clamoring for tools that do everything. But I'm not so sure that is even a good idea. Feature richness in software also creates huge burdens. And sooner or later those burdens are also felt by the users of such feature rich software.

As a result, I've stopped calling for software to become too feature rich. There's a reason the Unix Philosophy exists.


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## Pier (Jul 12, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> As users we're often clamoring for tools that do everything. But I'm not so sure that is even a good idea. Feature richness in software also creates huge burdens. And sooner or later those burdens are also felt by the users of such feature rich software.


Oh trust me I totally agree.

But come on! Adding loop points and multisamples wouldn't make Omnisphere anywhere as deep or complex as Kontakt or Falcon 

And Omnisphere already has those features anyway.


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## Nico5 (Jul 12, 2022)

Pier said:


> But come on! Adding loop points and multisamples wouldn't make Omnisphere anywhere as deep or complex as Kontakt or Falcon



I'm not sure where I ever said it would?


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## Pier (Jul 12, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> I'm not sure where I ever said it would?


Maybe I misinterpreted this quote "users we're often clamoring for tools that do everything"?


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## Nico5 (Jul 12, 2022)

Pier said:


> Maybe I misinterpreted this quote "users we're often clamoring for tools that do everything"?


I think you actually ignored the point I was trying to make - but that's ok.  

I tried to question the general wisdom of asking for more and more. I think it backfires in the long term, when a single piece of software gets too functionally rich. The maintenance becomes overwhelming in light of constantly shifting changes in hardware, operating systems and DAWs. 

Unlike pure library makers, software makers have to make tons of changes just to keep their software working on newer systems.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 12, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> I think you actually ignored the point I was trying to make - but that's ok.
> 
> I tried to question the general wisdom of asking for more and more. I think it backfires in the long term, when a single piece of software gets too functionally rich. The maintenance becomes overwhelming in light of constantly shifting changes in hardware, operating systems and DAWs.
> 
> Unlike pure library makers, software makers have to make tons of changes just to keep their software working on newer systems.


Yes, but...

1) we've drifted off-topic

2) users should always demand the products/services they want - ideally specifying why

3) the teams working on the product should then process and prioritize requests (but also conduct and incorporate user research)

4) refer back to the point about Omni featuring presets with samples but then not providing basic tools to create those presets.... that's all we're talking about here, not turning it into a full blown sampler

5) the “tons of changes” to keep their software working has been a major problem due, primarily but not exclusively, to Apple - at least in the last several years

I've been doing UX research and design for over 20 years, with literally 10s of millions of people using software I've helped create, and am familiar with how software-based products and services happen. And also an eye for UX issues. This is a UX issue, but is just one of several that Omnisphere has.


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## Nico5 (Jul 12, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Yes, but...
> 
> 1) we've drifted off-topic


yes, indeed - and my answer to the original question would be:

"I'm a big Spectrasonics fan since Atmosphere and RMX. But I wouldn't use Omnisphere as a platform for independent sound design, if creating my own multi-samples was important. Or if I desired a free player for my sound designs."

But I assumed that you had long since moved on from looking for that answer. 

Are you still looking for a platform for sampling your own synths?


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 12, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> yes, indeed - and my answer to the original question would be:
> 
> "I'm a big Spectrasonics fan since Atmosphere and RMX. But I wouldn't use Omnisphere as a platform for independent sound design, if creating my own multi-samples was important. Or if I desired a free player for my sound designs."
> 
> ...


I distracted myself from Omni via purchasing a drum machine (LXR-02). 

I have the free program that sets loop points. I can record my synths in the daw and export it. Do you know of an alternative that isn't pricey (I don't want to invest much more in Omnisphere)?

Easier methods and easier tool, as well as any tips or tricks on sample prep are welcomed.


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## Nico5 (Jul 13, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I distracted myself from Omni via purchasing a drum machine (LXR-02).
> 
> I have the free program that sets loop points. I can record my synths in the daw and export it. Do you know of an alternative that isn't pricey (I don't want to invest much more in Omnisphere)?
> 
> Easier methods and easier tool, as well as any tips or tricks on sample prep are welcomed.


Some of the options that I've looked at with some of my *very subjective* impressions/opinions at the time of this writing. There are plenty more options in general, also if you're deep into eco-systems like Apple Logic, Ableton Live, Reason, etc. So this is not comprehensive listing or evaluation. And others may disagree with some of my takes and correct them. 

*Samplers *

Sforzando - long standing classic free sample player
Decent Sampler - new and still quickly developing free sample player
TX16Wx - More feature rich and interesting options from free to personal to commercial, but relatively inexpensive
HISE - open source framework; However, I think it needs more programming than what I wanted to get into. So I haven't ever downloaded it yet.
EDIT 2022-07-14 to add Soundpaint - newest entrant on this list - free sample player with quite a a lot of modulation and FX features. It's early days in functionality, but already loads of fun.

*Sampler / Synths*

Falcon
no free player
lots of fans here at VI for being very feature rich
However in a rare show of restraint, I never bought it, because I already bought all of the others listed below. A crazy sale might change that 



HALion
free player available - no strings attached (I think)
rich sample creation tools
rich scripting environment using a common language
logical but daunting
somewhat convoluted process to create an instrument for the free player
aging UI



Kontakt
free player available, but with strings attached
no sample creation tools
rich scripting environment using a custom language
very large existing user base
superior hardware integration potential (with extra work) with NI hardware controllers
aging UI



MSoundFactory
free player available - no strings attached
free lifetime updates
rich sample creation tools
no scripting -- just visual configuring
arguably the best builtin FX selection by far



Unify
no free player, but quite inexpensive
it's a quite different beast compared to the others, but an interesting option nonetheless
it's really more of a meta instrument / plugin chainer, but it has a relatively capable sample player builtin
it's not (yet?) targeted to serve 3rd party developers, but one can build very interesting things with it.



I've ended up using MSoundFactory so far. I liked the ability to create and manipulate the samples right in the plugin, but found it easier to learn than HALion or Kontakt due to the absence of scripting and the generally easy to understand synth building metaphor. MSoundFactory also has an optional interesting copy protection mechanism that one doesn't have to pay for, even if one intends to distribute commercially. However I've never yet become serious enough about releasing anything to give that feature a good test.

I got reasonably far with HALion as well, but it seemed harder to work with.

I never tried to use Kontakt - the aging UI and the increasingly negative reviews of developers for building for the free player and the need to learn a proprietary scripting language turned me off. But I've purchased tons of really good libraries for that platform.

I've experimented with Unify with some success as well. But it's just not as much of a standalone custom synth building environment. But I enjoy it for building combination synths from other synths I already have. And it's making Spitfire's BBCSO much more palatable for my needs. It's a really funky piece of software at a rather good price so far. 

All of the above being said, creating a good multi-sample, multi-layer sound is not entirely trivial. It does take quite a bit of time and evolving experience.

Being limited to simple sampling does have its upsides for some much quicker, albeit simpler wins.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 13, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> Some of the options that I've looked at with some of my *very subjective* impressions/opinions at the time of this writing. There are plenty more options in general, also if you're deep into eco-systems like Apple Logic, Ableton Live, Reason, etc. So this is not comprehensive listing or evaluation. And others may disagree with some of my takes and correct them.
> 
> *Samplers *
> 
> ...


Great summary. Addition: Falcon has a scripting language as well (LUA).


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> Some of the options that I've looked at with some of my *very subjective* impressions/opinions at the time of this writing. There are plenty more options in general, also if you're deep into eco-systems like Apple Logic, Ableton Live, Reason, etc. So this is not comprehensive listing or evaluation. And others may disagree with some of my takes and correct them.
> 
> *Samplers *
> 
> ...


Terriffic summary. I believe that Halion is the only one that is actually a sampler in the traditional sense - that you can actually record samples into it. Unfortunately, as a couple of developers seem to me to have found (Crocus Soundware and Sonic Atoms), your releases can go pretty much ignored and unpurchased if released for the free Halion player, but they can get more attention and sales if released for full Kontakt, which is not free.

Obviously, this is less of an issue for anyone not primarily looking to share their creations.

I worry that there may be a similar issue holding people back from releasing third-party instruments using the free MSoundFactory player. Which is a real shame, as it has so much potential and is so much easier to use for many purposes.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 13, 2022)

Also: Equator 2 has a proper sfz sample import, albeit completely non-advertised / undocumented.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Did Sample Robot get mentioned earlier in this thread? It could have been somewhere else; it is sort of overkill for cutting loops, but it looks great for that. But our fellow forum member @venustheory has an excellent and excellently concise recent video demonstrating how useful it can be in creating loopable samples and whole sample instruments:











SampleRobot 6 | Your Sample Library Creator


The award-winning music application SampleRobot offers a lot of high quality autosampling and loop processing features to enrich your music productions. Create your own professional virtual instruments, loops, beatz and sample libraries in a jiffy. Available for Mac and Pc.



samplerobot.com


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## GtrString (Jul 13, 2022)

Check out Mikael Baggström's channel on this, he has a playlist full of tutorialz on the sounddesign aspect of Omnsp


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## Pier (Jul 13, 2022)

The Bitwig sampler is simple but very good. Bitwig is an awesome sound design environment albeit a poor writing environment.

If you're using Live it has a multi sampler too.

And there's also TAL sampler.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> The Bitwig sampler is simple but very good. Bitwig is an awesome sound design environment albeit a poor writing environment.
> 
> If you're using Live it has a multi sampler too.
> 
> And there's also TAL sampler.


I think using TAL Sampler is technically, if not literally, alchemy. It turns even really poor samples into gold, and gets better the better you learn how to use it.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 13, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I think using TAL Sampler is technically, if not literally, alchemy. It turns even really poor samples into gold, and gets better the better you learn how to use it.


Agree. @emptyvessel Greg turned me on to it and I STILL haven’t purchased all his TAL Sampler banks yet. What’s wrong with me.


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## elucid (Jul 13, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I think using TAL Sampler is technically, if not literally, alchemy. It turns even really poor samples into gold, and gets better the better you learn how to use it.


Note to self: spend more time learning TAL Sampler that you bought and have so shamefully neglected.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Agree. @emptyvessel Greg turned me on to it and I STILL haven’t purchased all his TAL Sampler banks yet. What’s wrong with me.


His banks don't include woodwinds.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 13, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> His banks don't include woodwinds.


It’s a well kept secret, but my first love has always been noise and dust. Loveless (1991) is still my number one album of all time. So in my heart of hearts I’m a Shoegaze guy. Emptyvessel makes dusty synth sounds that are reminiscent of the same esthetic. But the minute he’d sample whatever woodwind instrument we can get to him, I’d beg to become his prime beta tester


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## Pier (Jul 13, 2022)

So I was looking at the TAL Sampler manual and it says:



> Every layer has its own mapping and every layer can only play one sample at once.



This means that each layer can only play 1 sample *per note*, right? It doesn't mean TAL Sampler is monophonic?


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## gsilbers (Jul 13, 2022)

I went through this path a while ago. Researched, tested, loop, etc. 

At the end, imo, its not really worth it to import your own samples into omnisphere. 

two main points:

- The onboard samples will be far better than what you will import. Its the main point of Omnisphere. A dedicated sound designed team that went around focusing on sampling stuff for omnisphere. 

-The other point, and seems you have touched on this, the clearly cumbersome roundabout way to import samples and the lack of options on mapping, file structure etc. 

Therefore, imo, something like Arturia Pigments and Padshop Pro will be far better on this regard. There is also Equator2 and few others .Not to mention Kontakt and other samplers. 

Dont get me wrong, omni is great. but this specific feature is not its forte.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> So I was looking at the TAL Sampler manual and it says:
> 
> 
> 
> This means that each layer can only play 1 sample *per note*, right? It doesn't mean TAL Sampler is monophonic?


It's polyphonic, with up to four samples spread across the keyboard. The keyboard can be divided up, but each sampler oscillator is triggered by contiguous keys - up to the whole keyboard.

So, you could for instance, have all four samples triggered by every key. Or divide them up, for example: sample 1 lowest, sample 2 next lowest, sample 3 above that and sample 4 highest.

But they can't be triggered in round robins, as velocity layers, or on, say, one key per octave.

As far as I know: there are a couple of functions I haven't got to grips with, but they don't seem to be connected to this.

It is a simple instrument in a lot of ways, but with some decent modulation options, and a range of lo-fi/retro sampling processing options.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> So I was looking at the TAL Sampler manual and it says:
> 
> 
> 
> This means that each layer can only play 1 sample *per note*, right? It doesn't mean TAL Sampler is monophonic?


Correct. Think of it as an Akai S1000.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> I went through this path a while ago. Researched, tested, loop, etc.
> 
> At the end, imo, its not really worth it to import your own samples into omnisphere.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I agree completely; but I haven't had your experience of trying so extensively. There seem to be a lot of third-party developers making very good use of their own samples, with or without the very good granular effects.

It's definitely true that my own samples aren't anything like as good as the Spectrasonic ones!

Or as good as the Pulsesetter ones, either!


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## Pier (Jul 13, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> with up to four samples spread across the keyboard


Are you sure about that?

The manual shows mappings with more than 4 samples:











Or maybe I'm missing something?


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## gsilbers (Jul 13, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm not sure I agree completely; but I haven't had your experience of trying so extensively. There seem to be a lot of third-party developers making very good use of their own samples, with or without the very good granular effects.
> 
> It's definitely true that my own samples aren't anything like as good as the Spectrasonic ones!
> 
> Or as good as the Pulsesetter ones, either!


  thanks.

Indeed there some folks that have made some intresting things. But in a more "philosophical" context, the end result wasnt that much different for the extra work. But only in the ones ive bought. 

For example I bought one from string audio and also one from the sample co (bowed textures) and one is imported samples and the other onboard samples and the difference was more to do with the actual patch than the sample. Since omni has sampled so many random instruments its hard to outdo them if that makes sense. 

So its not that you wont get something cool or that its bad per se, its just the extra work might not warrant it for some when other products like Pigments excell at it. Or if the idea is to import synth samples when they've samples so many synths in so many ways that itll be hard to get something that would create a big difference... for the extra work. 

hopefully spectrasonics will have an update to make it easier to map and have more flexibility as we have a folder with tons of short samples for this purpose, looping point and all (those took forever to do), so id be all over it once its more flexible. Clearly Eric has been focusing on the granular part so im looking forward to it.


----------



## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> thanks.
> 
> Indeed there some folks that have made some intresting things. But in a more "philosophical" context, the end result wasnt that much different for the extra work. But only in the ones ive bought.
> 
> ...


I hope they do it just for that, then!

I use Falcon mostly for samples; but that isn't a great option for a commercial product as the market isn't nearly as strong as for Omnisphere soundsets.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> Are you sure about that?
> 
> The manual shows mappings with more than 4 samples:
> 
> ...


I'll check into it. I do have a wretched memory so that, sometimes, when something has slipped my mind it is gone completely. But maybe there is a deeper option than I've used - certainly there is only space for four samples on the main page.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> Are you sure about that?
> 
> The manual shows mappings with more than 4 samples:
> 
> ...


It looks like you are right. Each 'oscillator' can play one sample at a time, but it can hold more than one sample, mapped to diffferent keys. That's not a feature I've used or seen in use; but apparently it is available.


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## Slap Happy (Jul 13, 2022)

Newbie question (re: considering buying Omnisphere 2.8)
One of the features listed for Omnisphere:
“Audio Import lets you drag-and-drop your own audio file to use as a sound source, which can then be processed with synthesis features”

Is that one audio file singular or multi-samples spread across octaves? As quoted “audio file” sounds very singular to me. [needle drag record scratch!]

I’m imaging this feature, based on my experience with an iOS synth, to be possible to load multisamples (hopefully more than the 24 I use currently) across a hanful of octaves as one layer, then Omnisphere goodness added on top. I’m not looking to load in audio of acoustic instruments, but rather evolving/arpeggiating/moving synth sounds for further processing. Multisamples are a way to avoid pitch-shift weirdness. Can Omnisphere load in user multi-samples? Is Omnisphere so good at pitch-shifting (or some other audio alchemy) that it can handle pitch-shifting over many octaves without without weird timing problems? 

Omnisphere seems like a great synth with plenty of great presets & I’m already a fan of Eric’s work from some of my hardware, so I’m not criticizing Omnisphere, I just want to know before buying if it will be the all-in-one synth I need to work well with my other hardware & iOS synths.


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## Pier (Jul 13, 2022)

Slap Happy said:


> Is that one audio file singular or multi-samples spread across octaves? As quoted “audio file” sounds very singular to me. [needle drag record scratch!]


Yeah it's a single sample spread across the whole keyboard.


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## Slap Happy (Jul 13, 2022)

Wow. I feel disappointed, but how well does Omnisphere handle that one sample if it is a rhythmically moving/evolving sample when pitch-shifted?


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Slap Happy said:


> Newbie question (re: considering buying Omnisphere 2.8)
> One of the features listed for Omnisphere:
> “Audio Import lets you drag-and-drop your own audio file to use as a sound source, which can then be processed with synthesis features”
> 
> ...


It is one sample for the whole keyboard per patch, though you can layer up to eight patches in a multi.

Also, that patch is sped up or slowed down, not time stretched.

Kontakt can do time stretching and I think it has a couple of algorithms, though I don't know the difference between them. Falcon can do it with two different algorithms - the regular one which is lighter on the CPU and the IRCAM one which is stunning, but CPU heavy - especially for some sounds.

This is definitely not what Omnisphere was built for. It is not a multisampler. It does still sound great and is very versatile; but it doesn't do what you want, I'm afraid.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 13, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> I went through this path a while ago. Researched, tested, loop, etc.
> 
> At the end, imo, its not really worth it to import your own samples into omnisphere.
> 
> ...


Hmm. I've no interest in something that's primarily a preset player when those presets are built by others - working through huge numbers of presets is mind-numbing and, frankly, is a key reason I lost all interest in Omnisphere. Perhaps it is soon time to throw in the towel, so to speak, and sell Omni. Don't get me wrong: I do use presets from other people sometimes, but as an occasional supplement rather than the main feature. For example: I have Analog Lab V, looked at it, and deleted it. But I have some Unfinished presets I bought for Repro1 I've used from time to time.

I don't plan to spend a lot of my time making and tweaking samples for Omni, but I'd potentially be more inclined if it were easier to do it, and do it well. I'll still plan to give it more effort after the new-gear phase wears off the LXR-02.

However, if I end in the same spot, this tends to leave me with a very expensive wavetable synth - with great filters and other effects. But is that enough when I already have Vital and Hive 2 (I sold off Pigments because the sound of it bored me) and a raft of excellent FX plugins? Uncertain.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Slap Happy said:


> Wow. I feel disappointed, but how well does Omnisphere handle that one sample if it is a rhythmically moving/evolving sample when pitch-shifted?


It can't really do that. But it can introduce its own rhythms through modulation and its arp.

Also, there is some value in stretching the sample and having the speed of the evolving sound alter between different keys. It can be a very nice effect. So, again, it isn't doing what you want; but that isn't necessarily a problem with what it does do.

I just don't want you to be put off Omnisphere by this one limitation.

Perhaps a better option for you is Falcon; though it is not good for MSEGs and fine grained modulation generally. That doesn't bother me, but it is a big deal to some.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Hmm. I've no interest in something that's primarily a preset player when those presets are built by others - working through huge numbers of presets is mind-numbing and, frankly, is a key reason I lost all interest in Omnisphere. Perhaps it is soon time to throw in the towel, so to speak, and sell Omni.
> 
> I don't plan to spend my time making and tweaking samples for Omni, but I'd potentially be more inclined if it were easier to do it, and do it well. I'll still plan to give it more effort after the new-gear phase wears off the LXR-02.
> 
> However, if I end in the same spot, this tends to leave me with a very expensive wavetable synth - with great filters and other effects. But is that enough when I already have Vital and Hive 2 (I sold off Pigments because the sound of it bored me) and a raft of excellent FX plugins? Uncertain.


Omnisphere is definitely not just a preset player. You can use it's existing samples to craft completely new patches, you can load your own samples, and you can make patches that don't use samples.

It is popular with people who do use presets because it has so many very, very good ones; but it has so many third-party presets because of how good a synth it is for making patches.

In my opinion anyway. And I'm not even a fan of it, exactly! I just admire what can be done with it.


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## Pier (Jul 13, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> It is one sample for the whole keyboard per patch, though you can layer up to eight patches in a multi.


I've never used Ominsphere but my impression is you can have one sample per layer, 4 layers per preset (or part as they call them), and 8 presets or parts per multi.






I think it's only at the multi level where you can configure a range of keys per preset (or part) which is the "hack" that was alluded before in this thread for creating some resemblance of multisamples.


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## kgdrum (Jul 13, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Agree. @emptyvessel Greg turned me on to it and I STILL haven’t purchased all his TAL Sampler banks yet. What’s wrong with me.




Yeah the TAL Sampler is great grimy fun! 
fwiw the Empty Vessal Tal Sampler bundle is on my buy list for August!


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> I've never used Ominsphere but my impression is you can have one sample per layer, 4 layers per preset (or part as they call them), and 8 presets or parts per multi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, yes, that's right, of course. Each layer has an oscillator, and you can choose to make that a sample for all four layers. That does offer additional possibilities with samples, as the different samples can be modulated and processed differently.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 13, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Omnisphere is definitely not just a preset player. You can use it's existing samples to craft completely new patches, you can load your own samples, and you can make patches that don't use samples.
> 
> It is popular with people who do use presets because it has so many very, very good ones; but it so many third-party presets because of how good a synth it is for making patches.
> 
> In my opinion anyway. And I'm not even a fan of it, exactly! I just admire what can be done with it.


Oh for sure! The loading my own samples is what we're loosely exploring here. I've also made some pure "synth" presets with no samples. Blending existing presets was something I thought I'd be interested in, but requires knowing the presets, which I lost all interest in.

I suppose I'm just ultimately struggling with whether the synth is providing the value of what I paid for it (~$450) vs. something more immediately rewarding (musically). Trying out the make-samples-for-Omni is one way I'm trying to do something new, for me, with it, as I search for value.

It sounds great. But it may not be the right "fit" for me, I admit.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Oh for sure! The loading my own samples is what we're loosely exploring here. I've also made some pure "synth" presets with no samples. Blending existing presets was something I thought I'd be interested in, but requires knowing the presets, which I lost all interest in.
> 
> I suppose I'm just ultimately struggling with whether the synth is providing the value of what I paid for it (~$450) vs. something more immediately rewarding (musically). Trying out the make-samples-for-Omni is one way I'm trying to do something new, for me, with it, as I search for value.
> 
> It sounds great. But it may not be the right "fit" for me, I admit.


It may well not be. Samples can add something to a synth that it can't otherwise get, though - a slight element of acoustic complexity that even powerful additive synths struggle to reproduce. To that end, you don't need a lot of samples, and they don't even have to be of very high quality if further processing is involved - granular especially, but also a filter, compression, reverb, and so on.

Here's a patch I just made, each with four layers. The first version's B layer is a sine wave, doubling the sine wave of layer A but one octave lower and with a different filter. The second version has a sample of an erhu lowered by two octaves in layer B with the same settings, but with the gain increased to compensate for being a lot quieter.

I like them both; but I think that the second one sounds much more interesting and rich. Admittedly, it needs a bit of tweaking, but I wanted to post it without any other parameters adjusted between the two versions.


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## sundrowned (Jul 13, 2022)

Rapid synth seems like an interesting one for sampling (Don't own it). But it supports multisample import.


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## doctoremmet (Jul 13, 2022)

kgdrum said:


> Yeah the TAL Sampler is great grimy fun!
> fwiw the Empty Vessal Tal Sampler bundle is on my buy list for August!


Same!


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## Nico5 (Jul 13, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Oh for sure! The loading my own samples is what we're loosely exploring here. I've also made some pure "synth" presets with no samples. Blending existing presets was something I thought I'd be interested in, but requires knowing the presets, which I lost all interest in.
> 
> I suppose I'm just ultimately struggling with whether the synth is providing the value of what I paid for it (~$450) vs. something more immediately rewarding (musically). Trying out the make-samples-for-Omni is one way I'm trying to do something new, for me, with it, as I search for value.
> 
> It sounds great. But it may not be the right "fit" for me, I admit.


I’m not sure, if your struggle is actually related to what technical or sonic things Omnisphere can and can’t do.

It may be more about what kind of instrument you click with at this stage of your musical journey. 

And Omnisphere clearly doesn’t hit your sweet spot at this stage - and maybe it will one day, or maybe it won’t.

So maybe park it or sell it.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> I’m not sure, if your struggle is actually related to what technical or sonic things Omnisphere can and can’t do.
> 
> It may be more about what kind of instrument you click with at this stage of your musical journey.
> 
> ...


Good advice. Probably selling it is the best idea at this point. If you buy it again later, you've lost a little money over a span of years. In the meantime, you can put that money you get for selling it into something that tickles your music bone in the meantime.

For me, my problem with Omnisphere was that I bought it before I had a clue what I was doing. So it made sense for me to hold onto it and learn more. Now I have a clue, just barely; even though I still don't know what I'm doing!


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## gsilbers (Jul 13, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Hmm. I've no interest in something that's primarily a preset player when those presets are built by others - working through huge numbers of presets is mind-numbing and, frankly, is a key reason I lost all interest in Omnisphere. Perhaps it is soon time to throw in the towel, so to speak, and sell Omni. Don't get me wrong: I do use presets from other people sometimes, but as an occasional supplement rather than the main feature. For example: I have Analog Lab V, looked at it, and deleted it. But I have some Unfinished presets I bought for Repro1 I've used from time to time.
> 
> I don't plan to spend a lot of my time making and tweaking samples for Omni, but I'd potentially be more inclined if it were easier to do it, and do it well. I'll still plan to give it more effort after the new-gear phase wears off the LXR-02.
> 
> However, if I end in the same spot, this tends to leave me with a very expensive wavetable synth - with great filters and other effects. But is that enough when I already have Vital and Hive 2 (I sold off Pigments because the sound of it bored me) and a raft of excellent FX plugins? Uncertain.


Presets?! Im talking about the soundsources. Making your own presets is cool and thats fine. But soundsources of those presets is where i dont think importing your own makes sense in omni vs the time spent doing it when others can do better. The onboard soundsrouces are amazing. and its also a good learning tool since the info pane shows how they where made. 

We all feel the same about omnisphere. thats why we buy presets from specific brands and dont use the ones that come with omni. like buying the unfinished stuff or others around here that tailor make it for scoring. While things like analog lab to me suck ass since its like the onboard omni stuff, very generic to fit every genre and not actually doing it. 

If you are looking to do more stuff w omni then just check out any omni soundset for sale which have videos and see if any sparks ideas on what you can create.


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## Bman70 (Jul 13, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> I went through this path a while ago. Researched, tested, loop, etc.
> 
> At the end, imo, its not really worth it to import your own samples into omnisphere.
> 
> ...



From my perspective, as someone who is constantly importing my own samples, this seems a bit like overthinking. I just import any old sample I want, quality or not, and it mostly turns out great. Half the fun is asking "Hmm what can I turn this dog bark into," etc. They may not loop ideally or perfectly, but my usage rarely calls for something to do that anyway, because I'm making music not doing science. 

I stuck my Zoom recorder outside my window a while ago and recorded a passing train horn. Turned out to produce some nice Omni patches after hours of fun mixing and playing. Also imported a very noisy sample of a "singing" bowl, which included background noise of running water. I removed some of the water noise using RX, but much remained. The resulting patch still turned out great, and even got used in a soundtrack for an extremely popular Youtube show.

Anyway just saying I think it's entirely worth it to import your own samples into Omnisphere. Then again, my goal with my VIs is to have fun and be creative. Not necessarily reproduce exact facsimiles of other things heard in real life (i.e. orchestras or analog synths).


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 13, 2022)

Bee_Abney said:


> Good advice. Probably selling it is the best idea at this point. If you buy it again later, you've lost a little money over a span of years. In the meantime, you can put that money you get for selling it into something that tickles your music bone in the meantime.
> 
> For me, my problem with Omnisphere was that I bought it before I had a clue what I was doing. So it made sense for me to hold onto it and learn more. Now I have a clue, just barely; even though I still don't know what I'm doing!


Yeah. Such as this - for example:

$399+shipping
https://www.thomannmusic.com/dreadbox_nymphes.htm

I had Omni fully deleted for a few months, then someone inquired about buying it but then backed out due to the silliness of exchange rates. So I reinstalled it to give it one more go.

I don't want to buy additional presets for Omnisphere. I include all things that make a preset - no matter if it's built in or someone else sampled anything - they're all "presets". I've had it for long enough (over 3 years) to know the basics of how to use every part of it, which is why I know what does and does not interest me. I wanted to see if creating my own content beyond the waveforms it comes with would be more interesting to me. Perhaps I'm simply doing a VERY extended demo 

Samplerobot exceeds what I'd spend. I've done the demo awhile back and it's great at what it does. I think I'm looking more for any tips on gathering the best samples, in terms of notes/frequencies for the root, post-production for prep into Omni, etc. I mean, there's some people making some money who do this, so there has to be some best practices, even if the "secret sauce" recipe is preserved (though I think the more people making stuff for Omni, the more it lifts it overall).

I've spent the money on Omni, plus it sounds great at what it does, and I'm the type of person that wants to be thorough about things like this - and probably in general (hey, I'm a researcher).


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Yeah. Such as this - for example:
> 
> $399+shipping
> https://www.thomannmusic.com/dreadbox_nymphes.htm
> ...


I've offered such advice as I can based on my experience with it. Granular effects can make a massive difference; synth samples can be used to get you in the territory of a synth sample you like; acoustic samples can add richness and details that are hard to get otherwise; and it is a very versatile synth with lots of options for basic waves or wavetables and subtractive filtering.

The difference between me and a really good patch designer in Omnisphere is more experience and knowledge and how to achieve particular results, and artistry.

At least you've had another go with it; hopefully that proved of some use to you .


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## Pier (Jul 13, 2022)

LONG RANT INCOMING!!!

I hope I'm not going completely off-topic here... but lately I've been thinking we're in a bit of a hybrid synth dark ages era now. IMO (which is of course subjective) there's really no good hybrid solution in the market.

Omnisphere fits a certain niche well, but it's really not a good hybrid sound design environment for all the reasons expressed in this thread already.

Falcon is extremely powerful but IMO also quite a pain to use, and there are other drawbacks I can't mention because I signed an NDA. Not super popular either.

Halion, again super powerful, but almost nobody is using it. I think the reason is that, just like Falcon, it's really a pain to use. Steinberg is probably too busy with Cubase, Nuendo, etc, to pay too much attention to its instruments.

There are 3 synths I know of that allow importing multisamples in sfz or some other format but no editing of the mapping. These are Rapid, VPS Avenger, and Equator. Whenever I look for good demos for Rapid or Avenger I stumble upon crap like this... and Roli almost disappeared recently which doesn't inspire much confidence.

There are many other synths that allow importing a sample(s) but the sampling feature is barely a footnote in the product. I'm talking about Dune, PhasePlant, Pigments, etc. As much as I wished that PhasePlant added multisamples, I seriously doubt any of those will go deeper into the sampling aspect as the investment would be too high.

Personally the best hybrid sound design environment I've used is Bitwig itself... but IMO it's a terrible DAW for reasons I've discussed _ad nauseam_ in other threads. It would be great if there was a Bitwig Rack that could be loaded in other DAWs but I don't think this is happening either.

END OF RANT

Honestly I think Native Instruments has a huge opportunity here. Kontakt dominates multisampling and they have the resources to create a next gen hybrid sound design environment with it. Who knows, maybe that's why Kontakt 7 is taking so long


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## doctoremmet (Jul 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> LONG RANT INCOMING!!!
> 
> I hope I'm not going completely off-topic here... but lately I've been thinking we're in a bit of a hybrid synth dark ages era now. IMO (which is of course subjective) there's really no good hybrid solution in the market.
> 
> ...


MSoundFactory for the win! 😂


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## Nico5 (Jul 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> LONG RANT INCOMING!!!


I think this deserves a new thread. Too worthwhile of a topic and your thoughts to get lost in the bowels of a thread with an Omnisphere topic.


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## Nico5 (Jul 13, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> MSoundFactory for the win! 😂


As I indicated in a prior comparative post in this thread, that’s where I landed for the time being.

But the rant by @Pier still resonates with me to quite a degree.


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## gsilbers (Jul 13, 2022)

Bman70 said:


> From my perspective, as someone who is constantly importing my own samples, this seems a bit like overthinking. I just import any old sample I want, quality or not, and it mostly turns out great. Half the fun is asking "Hmm what can I turn this dog bark into," etc. They may not loop ideally or perfectly, but my usage rarely calls for something to do that anyway, because I'm making music not doing science.
> 
> I stuck my Zoom recorder outside my window a while ago and recorded a passing train horn. Turned out to produce some nice Omni patches after hours of fun mixing and playing. Also imported a very noisy sample of a "singing" bowl, which included background noise of running water. I removed some of the water noise using RX, but much remained. The resulting patch still turned out great, and even got used in a soundtrack for an extremely popular Youtube show.
> 
> Anyway just saying I think it's entirely worth it to import your own samples into Omnisphere. Then again, my goal with my VIs is to have fun and be creative. Not necessarily reproduce exact facsimiles of other things heard in real life (i.e. orchestras or analog synths).


Again, its not that its not good... but drag and drop, file structure, mapping and outcome in pigments and padshop is way ahead of omni and i rather use those And for custom mapping for specific stuff there is kontakt.
If the OP idea is to use his own samples then other options are out there. Even commercial kontakt libraries that emply drag and drop.
And i repeat it for several other folks who wont read the other few posts.. its not that omni is BAD at it.. its just that for the outcome pigments and padshop and kontakt are better. Now, ask me if i like pigments onboard sounds or presets? Or anything else from arturia.. the answer nope. i woudnt buy pigments for its soundsources or patches. Padshop sounds great but very similar. Just tools. and for importing samples, other tools to me are better imo.


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## Bman70 (Jul 13, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> Again, its not that its not good... but drag and drop, file structure, mapping and outcome in pigments and padshop is way ahead of omni and i rather use those And for custom mapping for specific stuff there is kontakt.
> If the OP idea is to use his own samples then other options are out there. Even commercial kontakt libraries that emply drag and drop.
> And i repeat it for several other folks who wont read the other few posts.. its not that omni is BAD at it.. its just that for the outcome pigments and padshop and kontakt are better. Now, ask me if i like pigments onboard sounds or presets? Or anything else from arturia.. the answer nope. i woudnt buy pigments for its soundsources or patches. Padshop sounds great but very similar. Just tools. and for importing samples, other tools to me are better imo.


So you mean I can import a sample into Pigments, and make it loop fairly seamlessly? Then export it again so I can import it into Omnisphere? I wouldn't mind doing that to get a good loop point, but I want to do the ultimate editing in Omni. 

Then again, just sampling something for 10 seconds makes it long enough for 98% of musical use cases, and an unobtrusive "rebow" (restart the loop) in a song is usually not a problem in a mix.


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## Nico5 (Jul 13, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> drag and drop, file structure, mapping and outcome in pigments and padshop is way ahead of omni



For the highest sampling joy for the lowest amount of effort, I sometimes use the Cubase sampler track, and then add my default guitar pedalboard style fx chain to the inserts rack and fine tune from there.  

Fun fact: The Cubase sampler track also allows quick export to Padshop and Groove Agent.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> LONG RANT INCOMING!!!
> 
> I hope I'm not going completely off-topic here... but lately I've been thinking we're in a bit of a hybrid synth dark ages era now. IMO (which is of course subjective) there's really no good hybrid solution in the market.
> 
> ...


There is no perfect island, since an island the kind of thing that, by its nature, is limited.

Mind you, that's an idea from Descartes and he was wrong about everything else...


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## Pier (Jul 13, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> MSoundFactory for the win! 😂


I always forget the Melda stuff! 😂


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## Pier (Jul 13, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> I think this deserves a new thread. Too worthwhile of a topic and your thoughts to get lost in the bowels of a thread with an Omnisphere topic.


There you go






Are we in the dark ages of hybrid synths?


I'm pasting this post I wrote in another thread and starting a new one on suggestion of @Nico5 . For context, this all started in a thread about the limitations of Omnisphere for handling user multisamples. ------ LONG RANT INCOMING!!! I hope I'm not going completely off-topic here... but...




vi-control.net


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## dunamisstudio (Jul 13, 2022)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Use it if you like it, don't use it if you don't.


----------



## vitocorleone123 (Jul 13, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> Use it if you like it, don't use it if you don't.


Not sure what you're referring to, but if it's about the thread topic, that's not what the thread is about.


----------



## Slap Happy (Jul 13, 2022)

Pier said:


> I've never used Ominsphere but my impression is you can have one sample per layer, 4 layers per preset (or part as they call them), and 8 presets or parts per multi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK, so in the ‘multi-sample hack’, 4 samples per part and 8 parts per multi gets 32 samples, which covers 4 1/2 octaves, but does Omnisphere recognize the pitch name in each layer? Ex. 32 .wav samples named Wonky Pad C2, Wonky Pad D2, Wonky Pad E2, etc., each one existing in its own layer, and Onmisphere will assign the samples correctly? Or does the hack require that I fiddle with things extensively to make the pitched samples work? Has anybody done this enough to say if it is easy or a pain?

Then again, the question may be mute, because if all the layers are taken up with samples, I won’t have any synth layers to add to the patch/multi.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 13, 2022)

Slap Happy said:


> OK, so in the ‘multi-sample hack’, 4 samples per part and 8 parts per multi gets 32 samples, which covers 4 1/2 octaves, but does Omnisphere recognize the pitch name in each layer? Ex. 32 .wav samples named Wonky Pad C2, Wonky Pad D2, Wonky Pad E2, etc., each one existing in its own layer, and Onmisphere will assign the samples correctly? Or does the hack require that I fiddle with things extensively to make the pitched samples work? Has anybody done this enough to say if it is easy or a pain?
> 
> Then again, the question may be mute, because if all the layers are taken up with samples, I won’t have any synth layers to add to the patch/multi.


I think Omnisphere will only stretch the sample to be in tune. You'd have to assign the areas of the keyboard to the oscillators in order to ensure that the samples were stretched as little as possible.


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## Bman70 (Jul 13, 2022)

Slap Happy said:


> OK, so in the ‘multi-sample hack’, 4 samples per part and 8 parts per multi gets 32 samples, which covers 4 1/2 octaves, but does Omnisphere recognize the pitch name in each layer? Ex. 32 .wav samples named Wonky Pad C2, Wonky Pad D2, Wonky Pad E2, etc., each one existing in its own layer, and Onmisphere will assign the samples correctly? Or does the hack require that I fiddle with things extensively to make the pitched samples work? Has anybody done this enough to say if it is easy or a pain?
> 
> Then again, the question may be mute, because if all the layers are taken up with samples, I won’t have any synth layers to add to the patch/multi.


What are you trying to do? Whatever it is, Omnisphere probably isn't meant for that. 
I haven't used multis much, but I think the keyboard can only be divided into parts, not the layers within parts. Like here's 4 presets, each with 4 layers, divided up into keyboard sections. Preset 1 also "fades" into preset 2. Anyone else more familiar with doing this might explain better.


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## Slap Happy (Jul 14, 2022)

What I am trying to do is find a main synth for my PC laptop, and hoping to replicate a cool function from one of my favorite synths from my iPad. 

It has 3 ocillators that can be selected to be ‘analog’, FM, wavetable, or sample. On one oscillator (analagous to Onmisphere’s layer I think) I will load in 4-5 octaves of multisamples. I’m not usually creating acoustic instruments, but rather taking evolving pad sounds from a synth that is not an Audio Unit and quite often adding new layers to that sample with some other form of synthesis like Wavetable to create newly tweaked versions of that evolving pad. The multisamples prevent a pitch-shifted effect. 

My hoped-for goal with Omnisphere 2 (I’ve been eyeing it since Omnisphere 1) was to 1) have a ton of new sounds and 2) expand upon the possibilities of my current workflow. Clearly I will have to have separate workflows for PC & iOS. 

While researching Onmisphere 2.8, I discovered this forum and have found some helpful advice which seems to indicate that Omnisphere 2.8 can’t load multisamples onto one of it’s layers and have the other 3 layers free for other synthesis. Since this function seems not to be one that people are clamoring for I doubt it will show up in the next update to Omnisphere. I was hoping to have one synth to be my all-in-one PC synth, but maybe that is unrealistic. I’m disappointed that a $500 synth program won’t do what a cheap iOS app can do, but I realize Omnisphere wasn’t intended to cover that function. I should use Onmisphere the way it was intended - hopefully it will be a good choice to create some evolving pads from scratch…? Anyone here do this? 

I also realize that the value of Onmisphere lies in the many hours of sound design behind “14,000 sounds”. Am I correct in assuming that the advertised “14,000 sounds” means 14,000 presets/patches and not 14,000 samples used to create presets? I’ve read reference to those 14,000 sound not being enough for users and the real magic being in buying Third Party Banks of Omnisphere ‘sounds/presets’. So the hole I’m contemplating jumping into is more than $500. A quick search turns up a lot of additional banks available for sale… I don’t think I’ll need Trap sounds, but my FOMO would compel me to collect as many of the electronic music (think JMJ) sounds as I can scrounge up the funds for. That’ll clearly be several hundred dollars more. 

Omnisphere looks like a capable synth, but do most people use it as a Rompler? My next step will be to see if Omnisphere matches my tastes (hopefully it is very electronic and not real world instrument focused) by finding the one YouTube video that demos all 14,000 sounds. 😆


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## Bman70 (Jul 14, 2022)

Slap Happy said:


> While researching Onmisphere 2.8, I discovered this forum and have found some helpful advice which seems to indicate that Omnisphere 2.8 can’t load multisamples onto one of it’s layers and have the other 3 layers free for other synthesis.



I was going to say true, it only loads single samples, but then I looked in the System settings and there's a round-robin menu. Apparently some sound sources have multi sampled round robins. 

How they record / save / and import these I don't know. But there are definitely different samples for different keys with some of these kalimbas... I turned off key tracking, which changes the pitch of a sample for each key, and the different keys are still making different pitches and timbres. From the manual:


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 14, 2022)

Bman70 said:


> I was going to say true, it only loads single samples, but then I looked in the System settings and there's a round-robin menu. Apparently some sound sources have multi sampled round robins.
> 
> How they record / save / and import these I don't know. But there are definitely different samples for different keys with some of these kalimbas... I turned off key tracking, which changes the pitch of a sample for each key, and the different keys are still making different pitches and timbres. From the manual:


Yes, I believe that Spectrasonics have reserved the ability to import round robins for themselves. Since you can use Trillian and Keyscape in Omnisphere, it is very clearly possible.


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## elucid (Jul 14, 2022)

Slap Happy said:


> one of my favorite synths from my iPad


Obsidian? I can’t think of another iOS-only synth with three oscillators that can load samples.


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## Slap Happy (Jul 14, 2022)

elucid said:


> Obsidian? I can’t think of another iOS-only synth with three oscillators that can load samples.


Bonus points to you!!!!! 
Yeah, I use NS2 and load samples of Nave and then tweak away. I was hoping for a similar party in Omnisphere.


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## elucid (Jul 14, 2022)

I’ve found Dune to be the nearest equivalent synth to Obsidian (for how I use it anyway). There’s a demo and if you can’t wait till BF for a sale then it’s usually cheaper at Thomann.de.


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## Slap Happy (Jul 14, 2022)

Dune looks interesting with the dual apreggiator and custom wavetables. It looks like it can only have one .wav file in Osc 3, more like Eden. I wonder of the intended purpose of this in Dune is to use the export wavetable as .wav function. I’m imaginging something like bouncing audio tracks in an old 4 track tape recorder. Osc 3 having a .wav of a wavetable and now you can use Osc 1 & 2 for other wavetables or other type of synthesis. Dune looks worth investigating - thanks for the tip! 

BTW, how are you using Obsidian?


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## Pier (Jul 15, 2022)

Slap Happy said:


> OK, so in the ‘multi-sample hack’, 4 samples per part and 8 parts per multi gets 32 samples, which covers 4 1/2 octaves, but does Omnisphere recognize the pitch name in each layer? Ex. 32 .wav samples named Wonky Pad C2, Wonky Pad D2, Wonky Pad E2, etc., each one existing in its own layer, and Onmisphere will assign the samples correctly? Or does the hack require that I fiddle with things extensively to make the pitched samples work? Has anybody done this enough to say if it is easy or a pain?
> 
> Then again, the question may be mute, because if all the layers are taken up with samples, I won’t have any synth layers to add to the patch/multi.


You can only define the key range of each part in the multi settings. All the layers of a part will have the same key range.


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## Slap Happy (Jul 16, 2022)

Pier said:


> You can only define the key range of each part in the multi settings. All the layers of a part will have the same key range.


I see. So it is possible to place 32 samples (a little over 4 octaves) of individual notes and define the keyboard range when creating multis. Sounds a little cumbersome, so I’ll have to think on this a bit. Maybe I can handle multi-samples in another synth. Thanks for the help!


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## Pier (Jul 16, 2022)

Slap Happy said:


> I see. So it is possible to place 32 samples (a little over 4 octaves) of individual notes and define the keyboard range when creating multis.


Hmmm no.

You only have 8 parts (or presets) per multi, so you can only define 8 different key ranges.


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## Slap Happy (Jul 16, 2022)

Oh. The layers will spread each sample out over the entire keyboard? That makes it tricky. OK, I think I’ve gotten to the bottom of this rabbit hole. I shall not try to make Omnisphere do something it wasn’t designed to do, IF I decide to get it. I will look into other synths first. Thanks again for the help!


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## venustheory (Jul 17, 2022)

Depending on what the goal is Samplerobot may be the cure. A bit $$$ but if sampling is something you do frequently it's a lifesaver.

I haven't used Omni in quite some time but if it offers SFZ import or anything along those lines, Samplerobot also makes life way easier because you can export in a bunch of different formats and options to remove the need to map them manually in the event your sampler of choice accepts one of the exportable formats.

For some general advice:
- When importing samples, always map downwards instead of upwards. Tuning samples down is better than up generally speaking.
- Sample rate and bit depth depends, but [email protected] is the standard for most stuff
- Stereo samples if there's stereo information, mono if not. I always record stereo though - the difference is negligible in file size and results in most cases.
- Always trim at a zero crossing for loops, but start points are sorta up to you
- Sample length is highly dependant but as a general rule, plucks for the full length, pads at around 10-20sec, sustained basses/leads/etc around 5-10sec. This depends mostly on the modulation amount though. For naturally decaying sounds like keys and such, best to just capture the whole thing.
- Depending on the patch, you can use something like 3 velocity layers (if velocity is doing anything), 2-4 round robins for realism or variety (ways to fake this, but that's another rant for another day), 2-3 samples per octave for most patches. 

Happy noisemaking!


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## emptyvessel (Jul 17, 2022)

off-topic but since it's been discussed:
TAL Sampler can have multi-samples on each layer, one per note if you desire (I do not!) but yeah only one sample sounding at a time, with 4 layers (which all have their own filters) for me at least that's plenty of scope. Time stretching in each layer also. Patrick at TAL always envisaged this as a philosophical "vintage sampler" in a plugin not a Kontakt competitor and with the effort he put into the various DAC/ADC models and his superb filters I think he's done an amazing job.
"But they can't be triggered in round robins, as velocity layers" - stay tuned on this...


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## Pier (Jul 17, 2022)

emptyvessel said:


> off-topic but since it's been discussed:
> TAL Sampler can have multi-samples on each layer, one per note if you desire (I do not!) but yeah only one sample sounding at a time, with 4 layers (which all have their own filters) for me at least that's plenty of scope. Time stretching in each layer also. Patrick at TAL always envisaged this as a philosophical "vintage sampler" in a plugin not a Kontakt competitor and with the effort he put into the various DAC/ADC models and his superb filters I think he's done an amazing job.
> "But they can't be triggered in round robins, as velocity layers" - stay tuned on this...


If patrick released TAL Sampler combined with a synth layered on top it would be a hit.


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## emptyvessel (Jul 17, 2022)

Pier said:


> If patrick released TAL Sampler combined with a synth layered on top it would be a hit.


interesting, I'll pass that thought on. 
Would you sacrifice one of the 4 engines for that? So you could swap out a sample playback engine and switch to a Jupiter8, Sh101, Juno oscillator set instead? Or have 2 synth engines and 2 layers of samples?


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## Pier (Jul 17, 2022)

emptyvessel said:


> interesting, I'll pass that thought on.
> Would you sacrifice one of the 4 engines for that? So you could swap out a sample playback engine and switch to a Jupiter8, Sh101, Juno oscillator set instead? Or have 2 synth engines and 2 layers of samples?


Honestly, at this point I'd be happy with a single sample layer and a single oscillator layer 😂

But yeah, 4 layers, and be able to pick either a sample or an oscillator for each layer would be great.


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 19, 2022)

I got distracted with new gear (LXR-02) and plugins. Haven't returned to sampling, but plan to. Since I got a few tips/info bits, I'll share the very basic sampled sounds I made. I've also never shared things from Omnisphere, so... I hope I did this right and I hope I didn't share anything I wasn't supposed to!

There should be only 3 presets in this preset file. A square, sine, and saw - with some basic Omnisphere filter stuff etc. added. Feel free to use these without hesitation in any work or for fun or whatever (but if you somehow use the waveforms in your own commercial pack or something that isn't a song, reach out so I can give you my info for some credit - that would be kind - I don't mind if you do, but also don't mind some credit). Also, if you try them, which one is your favorite? I'm partial to the saw, but the sine is pretty good. The square... meh.

Please let me know if I did share something more than those 3 - it was unintentional and I'll delete immediately.


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## ZeroZero (Sep 17, 2022)

A couple of points about Omnisphere. I am a fan. It took me a while to get used to it, but it does have probably the best most powerful search features, once you understand it. You can search by name and by other categories. attributes etc, but it also has Sound Match (Patch Browser) which can be used to choose sounds like the one that was a near miss.
I really rate the Eli Krantzberg tutorials on Groove 3. He understands the Omnisphere layout very well and does a stellar job of explaining it all. Once I grasped what he was saying, teh penny eventually dropped. Especially using projects - that really helped me organise my thoughts. Although you can just hit and hope with the presets, it does not do Omni justice.
On another note, when I create sounds in any synth (when not using samples) I find that learning that cut off does this and resonance does that, or this, or hard synch does this, or that it has has so many oscilators is a non musical experience - I can't clearly " hear" these things, before ithe parameter is applied. Therefore I have accepted that most of my creatinos are "Found Sounds". This is gradually changiing, but it is a slow process.
When I do use samples, this is great fun, I prefer it to full synth sounds as real samples have real nature-dirt, which the human ears respond to. 
Wholly artificial sounds, built from pure waves have a hard time re-creating this. The real sounds can be anything, a creaking gate, a nail being banged into wood, a bottom Bb on a sax, a bottle popping as it's being opened. My ears have opened to all the wonderful character sounds in nature. When I use them, often, but not always, I tend to only distort a little. Conversely, where I do distort, it's octave changing, reverb, chorus, echo, flange - old school.
Here is Eli Krantzberg https://www.groove3.com/tutorials/Omnisphere-2-Explained


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