# Finale questions



## Audun Jemtland (Mar 17, 2011)

Hey could you help me out? I would really like to see someone working in their notation program on a piece. Are there any video screenings out there?



Talk about your template and how it is set up


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## nikolas (Mar 17, 2011)

What would you like to know exactly? If you could post the questions you have perhaps I, and others, could chime in and reply to you.

Otherwise I doubt I'd ever screen record my workings on Finale... :-/


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## Audun Jemtland (Mar 20, 2011)

nikolas @ Thu Mar 17 said:


> What would you like to know exactly? If you could post the questions you have perhaps I, and others, could chime in and reply to you.
> 
> Otherwise I doubt I'd ever screen record my workings on Finale... :-/



I would like to see a composer work on something,using both his sequencer and finale.
In a video screening.

I'll even pay for it


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## nikolas (Mar 20, 2011)

although I'd love to get my hands even on a few $, for something I would be doing anyhow, I'm still wondering:

1. What is it you want to know exactly? I mean even if I was to make a video capture for you, it doesn't mean that I would come up with what you're interested in.
2. Are there no videos on youtube? Like 'Finale tutorials' or something?
3. Again, why, if I may ask?


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## Audun Jemtland (Mar 20, 2011)

nikolas @ Sun Mar 20 said:


> although I'd love to get my hands even on a few $, for something I would be doing anyhow, I'm still wondering:
> 
> 1. What is it you want to know exactly? I mean even if I was to make a video capture for you, it doesn't mean that I would come up with what you're interested in.
> 2. Are there no videos on youtube? Like 'Finale tutorials' or something?
> 3. Again, why, if I may ask?



1.what I really want is a fluid workflow, 1 track per instrument including the articulations. A full orchestra template with LASS and ewql platinum play.

2.Finale videos are available,didn't think about that.

3.because I get stuck fiddling trying to get things to work instead of just making music.


There's so many ways to go about it. I don't even know if it's possible. Professionals and especially composers have a "I don't wanna share or help you" attitude I think.

(Isn't there any template tutorials out there?)


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## nikolas (Mar 20, 2011)

1. This is based on individual needs though. For example I mostly COPY staff from my manuscripts into Finale. So if you don't use scores in general you won't be able to make anything out of it. 

It's not 1 track per instrument and all articulations, but possibly two (if you consider that orchestras usually have at least double woods and 4 f. hrns). Then there's the articulations (staccato, accents, etc, so not those used inside your sequencer) and then there's the dynamics (you could translate velocity into some dynamics but not the change (cresc) of those into hairpins, etc.

I also work importing midi files from the sequencer into finale, but usually for piano works that I don't want any hassle.

2. Cool

3. It could be that you simply don't know both programs very well, or one of them. 

There are plenty of ways to go about it, but as I said it's on everyones individual habbits a little bit.

There aren't any real templates for Finale, except for setting up the score (for band, for orchestra, etc), and you can make your own graphic templates, but that's about it I guess...

Hope this helps for now (I'm in my bed and it's close to midnight now, so I'll turn away from my computer in a little while! :D)


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## Audun Jemtland (Mar 20, 2011)

nikolas @ Sun Mar 20 said:


> 1. This is based on individual needs though. For example I mostly COPY staff from my manuscripts into Finale. So if you don't use scores in general you won't be able to make anything out of it.
> 
> It's not 1 track per instrument and all articulations, but possibly two (if you consider that orchestras usually have at least double woods and 4 f. hrns). Then there's the articulations (staccato, accents, etc, so not those used inside your sequencer) and then there's the dynamics (you could translate velocity into some dynamics but not the change (cresc) of those into hairpins, etc.
> 
> ...


Thank you

I don't know any program well,I use my ears and draw into the pianoroll,and I spend 80% of the time looking for sounds.I start of with a clean sheet for every song. Extremely time consuming and a creativity blocker.
The positive thing is that everything sounds EXCACTLY how I want it,but it's a big mess and very un-organized. I almost couldn't care less for individual setup and need as of now...I just want SOMETHING to get me started. Some sort of orchestral setup.

For instance,how does a modern film music score sheet look like? In what order from top to buttom does the instruments come in?

This seems to be almost all about midi tecniques and such..I haven't seen or heard any great help about that.


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## nikolas (Mar 20, 2011)

It seems that you are a little confused I think...

Drawing into the pianoroll is fine. You can either do that, or play with the midi keyboard, or perhaps import an existing midi file into your sequence but that's about it. So it's perfectly fine to draw lines into your pianoroll.

You could create templates with ready sounds in your sequencer. I didn't realize you are talking about your sequencer. So you could make a template called "Lush LASS" for example, with the legato strings loaded. Or the "Action cue" with lots of percussion, etc. It should take you a day or two, but if you check yourself you'll notice that you tend to use the same articulations, so you can reload the same project (empty) again and again and start there. Saves tons of time.

When you input notes in your pianoroll, these are most of the times quantized (unless you have a very good eye/hand coordination). This means that you will need to de-quantize and move things around a llittle, as well as move the tempo enough to make things sound smoother and less computerized.

________________________

Now if you want to transfer your music into Finale, you can export the midi file from your sequencer and then input it into Finale. Usually tracks will become staves, so you can arrange things for importing into Finale.

Keep in mind though that if the music is NOT quantized (the opposite to what I said earlier), you might end up with extremely complicated rhythms and issues (it might bring out a triplet of 16ths because it's closed to what you played, rather than straight 32nds or something).

______________________

Now on the score issued you mention. These are rather 'basic' staff and it doesn't take long to learn. Go into www.imslp.org and download a few orchestral scores to start getting an idea of how they look. 

Film scores can be found for purchsase I think (check Peter Alexander) and that's about all I can think on your questions/querries right now.

I still haven't been able to make a screen capture, nor I will today, just in case you thought I would. I just find that it's much better to reply your questions this way.

Nikolas


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## Audun Jemtland (Mar 21, 2011)

nikolas @ Sun Mar 20 said:


> It seems that you are a little confused I think...
> 
> Drawing into the pianoroll is fine. You can either do that, or play with the midi keyboard, or perhaps import an existing midi file into your sequence but that's about it. So it's perfectly fine to draw lines into your pianoroll.
> 
> ...


I'm being vague,sorry,I do play with a midi keyboard,reorganize the lines,play,reorganize,play.
And it's NOT quantized at all. Everything is by ear.I press record ang go,the tempo is untouched. But it would maybe be easier to make everything "mechanical" and THEN conduct it in a notation software with live conduct mode instead.

But I'm imagineing that you can make banks or something and keep everything under 1 track. Take violins 1 on track 1. Using keyswitches to switch between banks or whatever.so that it can contain trills,tremolo,legato,slurs,marcato...literally everything?

I think your answers covers everything better than screencap. 

The dream scenario would be to have 1 track per instrument,containing an entire orchestra,with EVERY articulation possible alongside with strormdrum,trilian and omnisphere. A HUGE playground.If I need anything it's definitely there.Then I could just work flawlessly.


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## nikolas (Mar 22, 2011)

What you mention can be done (almost).

first of all you need to keep in mind that anything NON quantized will end up like shite inside Finale. You will need to quantize it prior importing it into Finale.

That said, you haven't mention it, but just in case: I hope you're recording everything with at least the metronome, otherwise you won't be able to fix anything even by quantizing. Unless if you are talking about a solo instrument with no intention of importing it for a score, you will need to use a metronome.

I don't know if all the instruments can be ut into keyswitches and either way some may overlap, so not everything can be played live (although there are a few instruments which manage that quite wonderfully (for example LASS is quite good at that and especially the trumpet by samplemodelling, as well as orange tree samples. All these (especially the last two) tend to work with a single instrument in a single midi track and everything else works with velocity, mod wheel, expression foot pedal and perhaps a tiny bit of tweaking of the CC.

Anyhow. One you have the 3 tracks for... the flute done and recorded (for exampe legato patch, staccato patch and a fluttertongue patch), you could just copy paste everything on a new, seperate track which you will name (example) "flute everything". There you'll slightly edit the overlapping notes and then you can export that track and then into Finale.

______________________

Just keep in mind that I'm describing a somewhat tedious effort, so if anyone else feels like joining in, by all means...

If you want to load EVERYTHING and have it play ready you would probably get lost. I mean, ok load up omnisphere but EVERY patch? Load HS (EW) but EVERY patch? Not to mention that you would need tons of RAM, much more than 24 Gbs I reckon.

I *think* that the idea is to make some templates that correspond to the usual styles you work on. It can't be that you work with all the instruments all the times. I have a template for more action oriented tracks, with staccato patches, loud patches, lots of percussion and stuff. I have a piano romantic template with piano on and legato strings. And so on... I won't probably need the loud stormdrum patches with the piano romantic template, and even if I do it will be a very short loading time.

A screencap might have helped but I trust this is most of your questions covered.


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## Audun Jemtland (Mar 22, 2011)

nikolas @ Tue Mar 22 said:


> What you mention can be done (almost).
> 
> first of all you need to keep in mind that anything NON quantized will end up like shite inside Finale. You will need to quantize it prior importing it into Finale.


Understood.



> That said, you haven't mention it, but just in case: I hope you're recording everything with at least the metronome, otherwise you won't be able to fix anything even by quantizing. Unless if you are talking about a solo instrument with no intention of importing it for a score, you will need to use a metronome.



No,never used metronome I know my way of working is hopeless.There's a reason for it. But I get what you're saying.



> I don't know if all the instruments can be ut into keyswitches and either way some may overlap, so not everything can be played live (although there are a few instruments which manage that quite wonderfully (for example LASS is quite good at that and especially the trumpet by samplemodelling, as well as orange tree samples. All these (especially the last two) tend to work with a single instrument in a single midi track and everything else works with velocity, mod wheel, expression foot pedal and perhaps a tiny bit of tweaking of the CC.


So I've heard.Getting those midi expression tricks figured out is the key.




> Anyhow. One you have the 3 tracks for... the flute done and recorded (for exampe legato patch, staccato patch and a fluttertongue patch), you could just copy paste everything on a new, seperate track which you will name (example) "flute everything". There you'll slightlò ò   ´Ô½ ò   ´ÔÞ ò   µ9¨ ò   µ9µ ò   µ:| ò   µ:ž ò   ¶% ò   ¶%˜ ò   ¶D  ò   ¶D* ò   ¶kh ò   ¶kš ò   ¶¢n ò   ¶¢ ò   ¶®­ ò   ¶®Ú ò   ¶Þ ò   ¶Þ ò   ·™ ò   ·­ ò   ·# ò   ·#¯ ò   ·5 ò   ·5" ò   ·EÒ ò   ·F ò   ·FÔ ò   ·G/ ò   ·LV ò   ·M‰ ò   ·q9 ò   ·qh ò   ·t% ò   ·t– ò   ·µ ò   ·ò ò   ·—& ò   ·—s ò   ·›, ò   ·›0 ò   ·žH ò   ·žV ò   ·Ô½ ò   ·Õ ò   ¸jN ò   ¸j ò   ¸sú ò   ¸t÷ ò   ¸zì ò   ¸{! ò   ¸“ ò   ¸Ò ò   ¸Št ò   ¸Š ò   ¸Šû ò   ¸‹& ò   ¸Ž¸ ò   ¸Žé ò   ¸™á ò   ¸™é ò   ¸§' ò   ¸§ß ò   ¸¼µ ò   ¸½ ò   ¸Ï ò   ¸Öa ò   ¸Öv ò   ¸Ö ò   ¸ùå ò   ¸ùí ò   ¸ùý ò   ¸ú ò   ¹Æ ò   ¹ó ò   ¹ ò   ¹ ò   ¹ ò   ¹- ò   ¹ã ò   ¹ ò   ¹¨ ò   ¹¼ ò   ¹$Ì ò   ¹%J ò   ¹.Õ ò   ¹.å ò   ¹/g ò   ¹/k ò   ¹/ƒ ò   ¹/— ò   ¹GÍ ò   ¹Gï ò   ¹rN ò   ¹t ò   ¹ŠF ò   ¹‹m ò   ¹•x ò   ¹–n ò   ¹¨# ò   ¹¨£ ò   ¹«¸ ò   ¹«Ú ò   ¹¯6 ò   ¹¯ ò   ¹±¹ ò   ¹²’ ò   ¹³P ò   ¹³x ò   ¹¶> ò   ¹¶y ò   ¹¸ ò   ¹¸6              ò ò   ¹¾( ò   ¹ÄA ò   ¹Ä{ ò   ¹È ò   ¹È& ò   ¹Èé ò   ¹É ò   ¹É^ ò   ¹Éš ò   ¹ÉÝ ò   ¹Ê ò   ¹Í< ò   ¹Í¥ ò   ¹ÒÊ ò   ¹Òó ò   ¹Õ^ ò   ¹Õ“ ò   ¹é	 ò   ¹é ò   º	ð ò   º
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## nickhmusic (Mar 22, 2011)

*Re: Music workspace how is your template set up?*

I'm finding that my template is not helping my compositions on some days - but on others it's perfect for what I need.

I have pretty much everything I can think of loaded and ready in VE Pro, with all instruments assigned to their own output in Cubase.

Everything is neat, labelled and ready to go.

The trouble is - it is a little intimidating for starting a new piece - particularly those pieces where you are not even sure what you are going to write yet.

I am considering toning it down a bit and perhaps trying an empty project now and then as I used to do.


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## jlb (Mar 22, 2011)

*Re: Music workspace how is your template set up?*



nickhmusic @ Tue Mar 22 said:


> I'm finding that my template is not helping my compositions on some days - but on others it's perfect for what I need.
> 
> I have pretty much everything I can think of loaded and ready in VE Pro, with all instruments assigned to their own output in Cubase.
> 
> ...



Thanks Nick, interesting stuff

jlb


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## nikolas (Mar 22, 2011)

You know what? This is one of the things I blame EW for: My first library was EWQL Gold (Kompakt edition), which needed no tweaking. Panning ready, reverb ready, mixing almost ready (ok... not so much but anyhow).

I never ever learned how to use EQ, Reverb, and busses properly. In fact I still don't know how to use them properly, I just go with the ear, without any kind of theoretical knowledge... 

Other than that, audun, More people have posted... It's not a situation that a lot of people are really working. Working with score is not so common as working with Cubase... (I think). Hence the lack of many repies, but this is getting into a very interesting path for myself as well!


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## nickhmusic (Mar 22, 2011)

nikolas @ Tue Mar 22 said:


> I never ever learned how to use EQ, Reverb, and busses properly. In fact I still don't know how to use them properly, I just go with the ear, without any kind of theoretical knowledge...



This is exactly how I work too - and I think in many ways it is the best way to go.

There are things to try - such as pre-fader sends and lowering the dry signal, I find that this can create a wonderful sense of space around things like Brass and Woodwinds - and even take out some of the harshness of strings.

This obviously depends entirely on what you're doing, but it is something I'm always exploring. 

Power panning is also something I'm trying at the moment - particularly with VSL instruments that weren't recorded with any sort of ambience or 'space.'


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## Audun Jemtland (Mar 23, 2011)

*Re: Music workspace how is your template set up?*

It seems easier to go Sequencer->Notation instead of Notation->Sequencer.

Are there any more useful videos or books than MIDI orchestration?


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## nikolas (Mar 24, 2011)

*Re: Music workspace how is your template set up?*



audun jemtland @ Wed Mar 23 said:


> It seems easier to go Sequencer->Notation instead of Notation->Sequencer.


This is not always the case.

in my case it largely depends on the project. In most cases of concert hall music I workg with pencil and manuscript, so the obvious next step is copying inside Finale, without the use of a Sequencer at all! (it also gives me an opportunity to finally listen to some music, cause otherwise it's impossible to do so... I'm feeling left out of this world).

If I have something that needs producing (in mp3, or audio format), then it's Sequencer straight away. If I do need a combination of both, and for simpler works I use the Sequencer and the midi keyboard (I'm quite good at piano playing) and then into Finale, after cleaning up, etc...

I'm not too sure about your 2nd request. You mean more videos or books OTHER than MIDI orchestration? If so you should be looking into more 'classical' oriented knowledge: Orchestration, instrumentation, etc...


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## Tanuj Tiku (Mar 24, 2011)

*Re: Music workspace how is your template set up?*

There is no simple way of doing a template. Its large and sometimes very technical in nature.

Why a standard template cannot be set in place is obvious because everyone has different tastes and libraries. How they work within your DAW and what understanding you have about audio will define your template.

There are many videos and threads in this forum where you can read about this stuff. Please do a search. You can check out Mike Verta's thread and videos for example.


If you are looking to create a pro sounding template then you really need to work hard at fine tuning your sounds and working with what plug ins you have etc. There is no instant way of doing this. Templates are largely work in progress always. They keep evolving with time. 

If you just want to put your basic ideas down without caring too much about the sound and the technical know-how, then just open whatever software you use, load your most basic samples that you use and save as template!

What order of MIDI tracks you create is upto you! If you know what pre/post fader and sends are - then use that technique to do your reverbs, so you have control over wet and dry stuff and have the ability to process any Bus seperately. 

But again if you dont want all that, then just load up your basic stuff and save as!


Here are two images showing how I have set up my reverbs and then a Mix Bus area. This gives incredible flexibility.


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## Audun Jemtland (Mar 26, 2011)

*Re: Music workspace how is your template set up?*



nikolas @ Thu Mar 24 said:


> audun jemtland @ Wed Mar 23 said:
> 
> 
> > It seems easier to go Sequencer->Notation instead of Notation->Sequencer.
> ...


Yes I mean more than that book or any videos on the topic.





Thanks vibrato.


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## Audun Jemtland (Apr 13, 2011)

*Re: Music workspace how is your template set up?*

Let me ask you something.

1. Does any of you have an A3 printer?

2. Are Finale limited to only use garritan sounds? (any other sets out there?)


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## nikolas (Apr 13, 2011)

1. I don't have an A3 printer, but I seriously doubt there's any issue with printing anything from Finale. If anything just print to PDF and go to Adobe Acrobat reader to print out A3 size pages... 

2. No, any VST will do, as far as I know (in fact I know people who are using other libraries).


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## JJP (Apr 13, 2011)

*Re: Music workspace how is your template set up?*

I regularly print scores from Finale to A3 and 11x17 (US) both portrait and landscape. Printed music is the major focus of the program.

Finale is not limited to the Garritan instruments.


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## Audun Jemtland (Apr 16, 2011)

*Re: Music workspace how is your template set up?*



vibrato @ Thu Mar 24 said:


> There is no simple way of doing a template. Its large and sometimes very technical in nature.
> 
> Why a standard template cannot be set in place is obvious because everyone has different tastes and libraries. How they work within your DAW and what understanding you have about audio will define your template.
> 
> ...


Can you explain that setup and your reasoning for it?


nikolas:That won't fly without a bigger printer :D 

JJP:I'm trying to find "old fashioned" score sheet paper. What do you use? Doesn't need to LOOK old,it's the colour I like and how it reads more easily. + it's beautiful


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