# The Yamaha CP70 Who Sampled It Best?



## Mojo Bone (Mar 11, 2017)

Huge fan of the amazing hybrid instrument from the 70s here, and in a quandary over https://8dio.com/instrument/studio-vintage-series-cp70-electric-piano-for-kontakt-vst-au-aax/ (8DIO's) tax-season sale, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on the various iterations. I have Addictive Keys' version (various mics and a Music Man RD112, plus a Dimension D version) and a Korg SV1 which emulates the CP70 and provides a variety of likely vintage amp and pedal sims. 8DIO seems to have gone quite a bit further with preparing/programming:



I'd like some informed opinions, please and thanks ahead.


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## synthpunk (Mar 11, 2017)

I use Keyscape.

TIm Rice-Oxley (Keane) uses Pianoteq if that matters to you. 

Also been told by another CP - 70 aficionado the Waves Electric Grand is fsntastic.


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## Silence-is-Golden (Mar 11, 2017)

The UVI CP80/70 is very well done in my view.

Many options and some prepared/ brushed/ plucked as well.

It sounds lively and is fairly playable.
I'd miss the 'hard' FF(F) layers with some bite, but not many devs actually do these at all.

I enjoy playing this one.


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## storyteller (Mar 11, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> I use Keyscape.
> 
> TIm Rice-Oxley (Keane) uses Pianoteq if that matters to you.
> 
> Also been told by another CP - 70 aficionado the Waves Electric Grand is fsntastic.



I picked up the Waves Electric Grand 80 the other day and think it's incredible. Just thought I'd chime in on that one.


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## Mojo Bone (Mar 11, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> I use Keyscape.
> 
> TIm Rice-Oxley (Keane) uses Pianoteq if that matters to you.
> 
> Also been told by another CP - 70 aficionado the Waves Electric Grand is fsntastic.


Ah, thanks, wasn't aware of the Waves deal; they've pushed it a bit further into the grit zone without it really distorting. Not sure I could get there with Addictive, (I'll have fun trying) at the very reasonable price I'll chuck it onto the list. Keyscape's a lot to spend for yet one more CP70-80, but dang if it don't look good; my rhodes and wurlies are well-covered; maybe what I really need is the DX7 version with the Disney layers, LOL I like the idea of Pianoteq and modeling, but it's a multi-purchase, when I'm already invested in Kontakt, and...I didn't see a CP70 product; maybe it was bundled with somewhat else.


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## Lee Blaske (Mar 11, 2017)

Lots of good choices these days, and I own several of them. I do like the ability to really tweak the sound in Waves Electric Grand 80. It feels great under your fingers. I've done a couple videos with it...


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## Lee Blaske (Mar 11, 2017)

The 8Dio instrument does look interesting, though. They're also recording it with mics, which isn't something that was done live back in the day when these instruments roamed the earth.


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## Mojo Bone (Mar 11, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> The 8Dio instrument does look interesting, though. They're also recording it with mics, which isn't something that was done live back in the day when these instruments roamed the earth.


Given infinite time and money, I'd buy it all. Take that as context, but I'll spend, as the Victorians put it.


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## chasmanian (Mar 11, 2017)

Keyscape is worth every penny.


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## kurtvanzo (Mar 11, 2017)

Keyscape sounds better than any CP70 I've ever owned (and all the virtual ones I have now). They were a pain to keep in tune.


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## AmbientMile (Mar 11, 2017)

More choices
http://www.hollowsun.com/HS2/products/CP70/index.htm
http://www.toontrack.com/product/ezkeys-electric-grand/


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## chasmanian (Mar 11, 2017)

note: I am an amateur. not widely versed in 99% of what y'all talk about.
that said, I've been a music lover for nearly 6 decades.
and fooling around on keys since I was very young.
Keyscape is phenomenal. a veritable banquet, cornucopia, bountiful plenty, overflowing treasure trove of joy in terms of the instruments it has, and the presets.
a typical session for me: I come away in a state of bliss, in awe at the beautiful sounds.
sounds like I'm exaggerating. sounds like I work for them. 
well, I don't work for them.
and as for exaggerating, well, this is my humble opinion. as always, ymmv.


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## synthpunk (Mar 11, 2017)

The Pianoteq CP-80 is a freebie if you own there acoustic piano.
https://www.pianoteq.com/free_stuff#bells

BTW if you ever looked inside or set one up the engineering and design behind the CP pianos is just mind boggling.











Mojo Bone said:


> Ah, thanks, wasn't aware of the Waves deal; they've pushed it a bit further into the grit zone without it really distorting. Not sure I could get there with Addictive, (I'll have fun trying) at the very reasonable price I'll chuck it onto the list. Keyscape's a lot to spend for yet one more CP70-80, but dang if it don't look good; my rhodes and wurlies are well-covered; maybe what I really need is the DX7 version with the Disney layers, LOL I like the idea of Pianoteq and modeling, but it's a multi-purchase, when I'm already invested in Kontakt, and...I didn't see a CP70 product; maybe it was bundled with somewhat else.


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## stargazer (Mar 12, 2017)

Prominy
http://www.prominy.com/elec.htm


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## Mojo Bone (Mar 12, 2017)

chasmanian said:


> Keyscape is worth every penny.


Yeah, and it's going on the list, too; right behind Trilian and Omnisphere, cuz I don't have a decent tack piano. I fell in love with the Yamaha beast while I was working in a wedding band for about a minute; it was a two-man carry, and I probably wouldn't have loved it so much if I'd been the one tuning it for every show. *edit: I'll also be picking up that Hollow Sun instrument; it's most like what I remember from back in the early mid-eighties.


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## jonnybutter (Mar 12, 2017)

kurtvanzo said:


> Keyscape sounds better than any CP70 I've ever owned (and all the virtual ones I have now). They were a pain to keep in tune.




Don't mean to be a turd, but...I don't see why people *want* that sound. I had a CP-70 for many years, and while it played great, it always sounded like crap to me. Not enough strings, and buckskin hammers. I didn't have so much trouble with tuning since I didn't travel with it, just the piano design itself. Other than the keyboard, the great thing about it was how fast it was, action-wise - great for latin music (esp. some Brazilian music). But if you are triggering samples...?

Different strokes I guess.


EDIT: I am obviously in the minority since there are so many CP-70 sample choices out there!


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## Ashermusic (Mar 12, 2017)

Listen to Chicagos's "Saturday In The Park" and Billy Joel's "My Life." There are those of us who played one back in the day that have some affection for it, although I am more likely to reach for a Rhodes or Wurlitzer these days.


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## Mojo Bone (Mar 12, 2017)

jonnybutter said:


> Don't mean to be a turd, but...I don't see why people *want* that sound. I had a CP-70 for many years, and while it played great, it always sounded like crap to me. Not enough strings, and buckskin hammers. I didn't have so much trouble with tuning since I didn't travel with it, just the piano design itself. Other than the keyboard, the great thing about it was how fast it was, action-wise - great for latin music (esp. some Brazilian music). But if you are triggering samples...?
> 
> Different strokes I guess.
> 
> ...


Almost everybody found a way to thicken it up, some; if you use a CE-1 chorus, you get that goopy Peter Gabriel thing, some guys used an MXR Phase 90. The thinner sound is actually an advantage when you're layering synth horns and strings.

I recently mastered some live Latin jazz and my two favorite things about the style are the sort of crunchy midrangey piano and the Ampeg Baby Bass. I don't know how they get that sound but I suspect they throw a cheap Radio Shack dynamic mic in the piano and close the lid, but if you turn A CP70 up to where there's just a smidge of tube crunch, it's THAT sound.


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## jonnybutter (Mar 12, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Listen to Chicagos's "Saturday In The Park" and Billy Joel's "My Life." There are those of us who played one back in the day that have some affection for it, although I am more likely to reach for a Rhodes or Wurlitzer these days.




Yes, it could sound good, esp. in a studio. Almost any great Tania Maria track has her on one, and she always toured with one; if you haven't heard her, she plays great, and often sings along with her RH - very funky and cool sound. CP-70 was absolutely great to _play, _and you could put effects/pedals on it. But, as noted upthread, the tuning could be a problem. Mine was kind of 'always in tune/always out of tune'. 

There was another electric/acoustic portable I played regularly back in those days - I think it was made in Texas. An upright electric. Heavy as hell. Had that in-your-face sound, too, but I think full complement of strings. Also played great, but the Yamaha played better. I would say that the playability outweighed the less than great sound - the playability inspired the player, despite the sound.


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## jonnybutter (Mar 12, 2017)

Mojo Bone said:


> Almost everybody found a way to thicken it up, some; if you use a CE-1 chorus, you get that goopy Peter Gabriel thing, some guys used an MXR Phase 90. I recently mastered some live Latin jazz and my two favorite things about the style are the sort of crunchy midrangey piano and the Ampeg Baby Bass. I don't know how they get that sound but I suspect they throw a cheap Radio Shack dynamic mic in the piano and close the lid, but if you turn A CP70 up to where there's just a smidge of tube crunch, it's THAT sound.



I used the MXR phaser on mine too (and morley wah/volume/distortion), and Rotosphere of course! And actually the built in tremolo was useful too, live. I too love that baby bass/crunchy midrange piano combo. And I'm pretty sure you are right - probably just a dynamic mic or two inside an upright piano.

I sold my CP-70 a few years ago..... OK, now I miss it!


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## quantum7 (Mar 12, 2017)

I bought the UVI CP-70 and really like it. https://www.uvi.net/en/pianos-keyboards/egp.html


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## galactic orange (Mar 12, 2017)

That's the one I was considering until the 8DIO version came out. There are so many options that the choice has become harder.


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## Lode_Runner (Mar 13, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> TIm Rice-Oxley (Keane) uses Pianoteq if that matters to you.


I take it he uses it live, not on albums (?) Their records I'm familiar with (I was listening circa 11-12 years ago) must predate pianoteq (?).

Edit: I was for a very long time considering the Hollow Sun version, but now I have the Chocolate Audio version I'm not so sure - I'll need to spend more time with the Chocolate Audio version first...


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## Lode_Runner (Mar 13, 2017)

jonnybutter said:


> Don't mean to be a turd, but...I don't see why people *want* that sound. I had a CP-70 for many years, and while it played great, it always sounded like crap to me. Not enough strings, and buckskin hammers. I didn't have so much trouble with tuning since I didn't travel with it, just the piano design itself. Other than the keyboard, the great thing about it was how fast it was, action-wise - great for latin music (esp. some Brazilian music). But if you are triggering samples...?
> 
> Different strokes I guess.
> 
> EDIT: I am obviously in the minority since there are so many CP-70 sample choices out there!



The thought has crossed my mind - the CP-70 / CP-80 was useful for touring musicians back in the day due to it's ability to sound more like a piano than a Rhodes or Wurli, while being more transportable and amplifiable than a grand piano - but is it's sound as useful in an era when we can trigger Yamaha C-7 samples instead? The Rhodes/Wurli are still sought after because of how much they don't sound like a piano, but the CP70 might be more of a pure nostalgia thing. 

I kind of feel the same way about Mellotron samples - I kind of want them because they're on so many albums I love, but at the same time I think why use the sample technology of the 2010s to replicate the sample technology of the 1970s? If John Paul Jones had had access to Kontakt and Albion, would he really have used a Mellotron on the Rain Song?


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## Mojo Bone (Mar 13, 2017)

Why do we love who we love? JPJ didn't have to use the Mellotron on the record did he? He coulda rang up George Martin and some blokes from the union hall, but he din't. It's all subjective and every taste is an acquired one. The great thing about a CP70 is it's easier to shoehorn into a dense mix and sounds just enough not like a piano to trigger a different, dreamier set of emotions-or at least that's how it works, for me. [smiles]


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## stonzthro (Mar 13, 2017)

There was one at my university and I couldn't stand the sound and the keys were beyond stiff - like it could have inspired Henry Cowell's approach to keyboard it was that bad. The charm and usefulness is completely lost on me.


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## kurtvanzo (Mar 13, 2017)

Mellotron rocks to get that funky sound, glad they didn't have kontakt back then. Beatles could have used a real flute, but they didn't because they wanted something different. Peter Gabriel could have used a real piano on his albums, but he wanted something different (he still uses the CP70 from time to time), much of So is CP70. So he just wanted that sound, and when it's perfectly tuned and well kept up (Keyscape) it is a unique flavor. A piano but dreamy.

For Mellotron, I have the uvi version but am actually liking the cheaper Wavesfactory versions better (I and II both have interesting sounds).
https://www.wavesfactory.com/newmelloi/


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## Mojo Bone (Mar 13, 2017)

stonzthro said:


> There was one at my university and I couldn't stand the sound and the keys were beyond stiff - like it could have inspired Henry Cowell's approach to keyboard it was that bad. The charm and usefulness is completely lost on me.


I predict that the university had theirs plugged into a fancy mix desk; most of the folks who've sampled the instrument included some amped samples, cuz that's how it was typically heard, in the era.

The rule of thumb was that the keyboardist carried twice as many cabs as the bass player and outdoors or at stadium gigs, that could mean two or more 8X10 cabs in pairs driven by Ampeg SVTs; if your rendition of Piano Man needed to be louder than John Bonham at Odin's wake, then bob's your uncle. In terms of wattage, the seventies were definitely the age of excess, in case you missed 'em.

The direct sound of just about every CP70/80 left somewhat to be desired; what I find cool about it is all the great pairings, like when you layer it with Moogish strings or Oberheimy horns. My Korg SV1 features dual outputs, so it's dead simple to run any of its CP70 (or any other) sounds through a bunch of cheap (or fancy) stompboxes and/or into a vintage tube amp. It has a modeled Fender Super Reverb onboard but sounds better through the one in my room. Almost any kind of modulation sounds great; Rotovibe, Univibe, Leslie, phase it, flange it, it'll even do something interesting through a Gonkulator. I got great results with a Ross-style compressor into a TS808 set to slam the amp's input stage with just a hint of grit.

Some treatments like pitch-shifted chorus can sound fake on a grand piano, sometimes even an upright is too thick but with CP70 you get something a little less well-defined. You find a way to give it a little roundness and compression, the notes start to bloom and for me, at least; audio bliss.


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## Lode_Runner (Mar 13, 2017)

Mojo Bone said:


> Why do we love who we love? JPJ didn't have to use the Mellotron on the record did he? He coulda rang up George Martin and some blokes from the union hall, but he din't. It's all subjective and every taste is an acquired one. The great thing about a CP70 is it's easier to shoehorn into a dense mix and sounds just enough not like a piano to trigger a different, dreamier set of emotions-or at least that's how it works, for me. [smiles]


Here's an interesting interview with John Paul Jones regarding the Mellotron.
http://www.ledzeppelinnews.com/2001/12/john-paul-jones-on-his-mellotron-and.html



kurtvanzo said:


> For Mellotron, I have the uvi version but am actually liking the cheaper Wavesfactory versions better (I and II both have interesting sounds).
> https://www.wavesfactory.com/newmelloi/


You could also check out Hollow Sun's version - the Newtron Bomb http://www.hollowsun.com/HS2/products/newtron/index.htm

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread with talk about Mellotron - back to the topic: what's the best sampled CP70 / CP80?


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## Mojo Bone (Mar 16, 2017)

Hey, in timely fashion, Waves' Electric Grand 80 just went on sale for $39USD, in case any here were about to bite.


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## Lode_Runner (Mar 16, 2017)

Mojo Bone said:


> Hey, in timely fashion, Waves' Electric Grand 80 just went on sale for $39USD, in case any here were about to bite.


Nice. Think I'll have to get this.

I notice that there's also 30% off second plugin, 35% off third plugin etc... not sure if that applies after purchasing already discounted products but they also have a Wurlitzer and Rhodes... so it may be in for a penny, in for a pound.


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## synthpunk (Nov 19, 2017)

Waves Electric Grand is on sale currently for $39 if that helps anyone.


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## jon wayne (Nov 19, 2017)

jonnybutter said:


> Don't mean to be a turd, but...I don't see why people *want* that sound. I had a CP-70 for many years, and while it played great, it always sounded like crap to me. Not enough strings, and buckskin hammers. I didn't have so much trouble with tuning since I didn't travel with it, just the piano design itself. Other than the keyboard, the great thing about it was how fast it was, action-wise - great for latin music (esp. some Brazilian music). But if you are triggering samples...?
> 
> Different strokes I guess.
> 
> ...


When I hear a CP70, my back hurts from all those years of setting up....tearing down...


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## synthpunk (Nov 20, 2017)

I sold mine to a friend and retired my Tuning fork 



jon wayne said:


> When I hear a CP70, my back hurts from all those years of setting up....tearing down...


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## Teal Seal (Nov 20, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> I sold mine to a friend and retired my Tuning fork


I retired my chiropractor.


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## christhechive (Jan 1, 2020)

Mojo Bone said:


> Hey, in timely fashion, Waves' Electric Grand 80 just went on sale for $39USD, in case any here were about to bite.



I have both the Waves and the 8.dio and I’d say the 8.dio is
much more nuanced and 3D(pedal down samples I reckon help), but the Waves the is much better under the fingers and transitions between samples more seamlessly. Most of the many options on the 8.dio could reproduced with amp sims and reverbs with waves. Somewhere between the 2 is CP heaven!


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## Ashermusic (Jan 1, 2020)

Lode_Runner said:


> The thought has crossed my mind - the CP-70 / CP-80 was useful for touring musicians back in the day due to it's ability to sound more like a piano than a Rhodes or Wurli, while being more transportable and amplifiable than a grand piano - but is it's sound as useful in an era when we can trigger Yamaha C-7 samples instead? The Rhodes/Wurli are still sought after because of how much they don't sound like a piano, but the CP70 might be more of a pure nostalgia thing.
> 
> I kind of feel the same way about Mellotron samples - I kind of want them because they're on so many albums I love, but at the same time I think why use the sample technology of the 2010s to replicate the sample technology of the 1970s? If John Paul Jones had had access to Kontakt and Albion, would he really have used a Mellotron on the Rain Song?



Back in the day when I was a staff writer with Casablanca I di dshow’s performing my songs in rooms that didn’t have a piano, like the Bla Bla Cafe, and I played a CP-70. It was fine, but I don’t feel anywhere near the same affection I feel for the Wurlitzers and Rhodes Suitcases I owned.


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