# Drums and Percussion...



## jononotbono (Aug 22, 2017)

I'm busy trying to learn how to use the HZ01 Ensemble Drum library and it dawned on me a while ago that I just have no idea how to write drum parts with so many of the instruments in that library so I was wondering if anyone has any favourite Drum Tutorial resources that I could check out? I'm currently looking on You Tube and just thought it might be a great thread to start to share information on Drums and percussion. Anything from Ethnic, Exotic, Orchestral and cinematic Drums and Percussion...

I love the HZ01 library and the sound is phenomenal but I wanna know how to write "realistic" parts that a real player would sort of perform. I say "sort of" because I've already realised that part of the Bombo player's arsenal is using Rimshots for added percussive playing and there aren't any rimshot samples for the Bombo Ensemble Patches.

I also have no idea how to write with "Buckets". Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of the Buckets but is it more of a stylistic thing to add to modern music or are they an actual thing musicians play outside of the sample library? I mean, I've seen plenty of drummers so far playing on Street Corners hitting Paint Tubs so I wouldn't be surprised.


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## murderbagmitch (Aug 22, 2017)

I found this old Daniel James video helpful in explaining his reasoning for the different roles of perc instruments.......granted i'm still terrible, but helpful none the less


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## jononotbono (Aug 22, 2017)

Excellent! Thank you for sharing that! I've never seen it before.


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## murderbagmitch (Aug 22, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Excellent! Thank you for sharing that! I've never seen it before.


Huzzah! No worries :D good deed for the day done.....now to still some kids lunch money to balance this out


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

Gonna keep putting tutorials on Drums and Perc Programming when I find them. Here's another good video...


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## R. Soul (Aug 29, 2017)

murderbagmitch said:


> Huzzah! No worries :D good deed for the day done.....now to still some kids lunch money to balance this out


Wait...Murderbagmitch is not Mitch murder???
Logo is even in a similar Synthwave style. I'm confused.
A fan perhaps or just pure coincidence?


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## murderbagmitch (Aug 29, 2017)

R. Soul said:


> Wait...Murderbagmitch is not Mitch murder???
> Logo is even in a similar Synthwave style. I'm confused.
> A fan perhaps or just pure coincidence?


hehehe nope I'm just a regular Mitchell. Murderbag is a nickname from work. For social media/forums I'm unimaginative and just combine :S And I like the 80s artwork aesthetic, so yeh complete coincidence :D It wasn't till after I thought I was an original that I found out about Mitch Murder. In my defense he isn't even called Mitchell XD


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## AdamKmusic (Aug 29, 2017)

Junkie XL's Mad Max drums video is pretty good, I actively use his quantize technique when writing drum parts!


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

AdamKmusic said:


> Junkie XL's Mad Max drums video is pretty good, I actively use his quantize technique when writing drum parts!



Ahh yes! Of course. Let's get that in here...


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## Smikes77 (Aug 29, 2017)

Good thread this.


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

I'm a little bit confused why JXL's approach to mapping out the samples as he does is any "better" than using Round Robins? Perhaps someone could explain that? I get what he is doing but surely Round Robins will do a similar thing for Variation and depending on how hard you play Velocity will trigger different Samples?


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

And using a Logical Editor Command in Cubase can allow me to raise or lower Velocities in a relative manner (regarding how he moves the midi data higher or lower in the Piano Roll) so it will keep the performance intact etc


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

He does say something interesting in the fact that you can hear each transient as you play each sample but I thought using RRs does that too?


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## Saxer (Aug 29, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> I'm a little bit confused why JXL's approach to mapping out the samples as he does is any "better" than using Round Robins? Perhaps someone could explain that? I get what he is doing but surely Round Robins will do a similar thing for Variation and depending on how hard you play Velocity will trigger different Samples?


The only pro of this workflow is an predictable manual round robin because there's no random. In a free running 5-samples-round-robin you never know which sample you hit when you start the DAW because it depends on the last stop. Some libaries have a reset knob for that. But the JXL way it's easier to avoid certain samples if you don't like them or they are out of time or whatever. And you can play soft samples harder (louder) without triggering other (harder) samples. So there's a bit more control.


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

OK, that makes sense. I'm trying to get my head around the Punch COGS in HZ01 and I think they are for choosing specific RRs but there isn't a manual for it on the SA site so I'm not sure at the minute.


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

More Drum Programming...


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## murderbagmitch (Aug 29, 2017)

Might as well keep the DJ train rolling


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

DJ's Cine Perc Video is actually loaded with great drum programming Tips. I really need to get back to writing but I've been sucked into tutorial videos!


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## AdamAlake (Aug 29, 2017)

Thank you for all the resource contributions, guys, very useful stuff.


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

Here's another...



Erm, I have never even heard this library before but man, it's amazing! Has DJ actually drum programming in it so it's super useful!


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

Ok, so these DJ live streams are exactly what I have been looking for. Actually watching someone program drums. I'm slowly understanding how this all works. Basically the only rule seems to be, "if it sounds good it is good".


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## robharvey (Aug 29, 2017)

Yeah those streams are brilliant. Bad for the wallet but brilliant. 
Have you thought about just buying a floor tom and playing in your own?


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## mac (Aug 29, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Here's another...
> 
> 
> 
> Erm, I have never even heard this library before but man, it's amazing! Has DJ actually drum programming in it so it's super useful!




Just incase you don't know, the whole master bundle is 50% off at the moment, and ja, all 4 libraries are amazing!


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

robharvey said:


> Yeah those streams are brilliant. Bad for the wallet but brilliant.
> Have you thought about just buying a floor tom and playing in your own?



I bought a whole Acoustic Drum kit actually but how does using a floor Tom work when wanting other percussion? Would you use the Tom to play in rhythms and then replace with Samples? Or obviously blend the Tom in with end results?


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

mac said:


> Just incase you don't know, the whole master bundle is 50% off at the moment, and ja, all 4 libraries are amazing!



Yeah I just noticed. Sadly I'm tapped out right now. Just put 96gb of RAM in Computer and going to Greece at end of week so I have to pretend that deal isn't on right now. That video just literally blew my mind of how fantastic they sound!


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

On a different note, do people here use HZ01 set up for two handed playing or do you change it to one handed in the options settings? Just curious.


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## Nils Neumann (Aug 29, 2017)

for all the hz01 users: http://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-audio-hz01-rhythmic-set-freebie.35119/#post-3747436


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## JohnG (Aug 29, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> I'm a little bit confused why JXL's approach to mapping out the samples as he does is any "better" than using Round Robins?



Actually, the mapping isn't to do with round robins. It's different velocity groups. The idea is that you save a lot of time because you can write a pattern, fiddle it so it sounds great, then simply transpose it up or down to produce a quieter or louder version.

This saves a lot of time because getting a percussion pattern just the way you want it can take a while. This way when that pesky dialogue returns (or you want a decrescendo) you have what you want right away.


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

JohnG said:


> Actually, the mapping isn't to do with round robins. It's different velocity groups. The idea is that you save a lot of time because you can write a pattern, fiddle it so it sounds great, then simply transpose it up or down to produce a quieter or louder version.
> 
> This saves a lot of time because getting a percussion pattern just the way you want it can take a while. This way when that pesky dialogue returns (or you want a decrescendo) you have what you want right away.



Ok, Thanks John. That makes sense. Is it possible to map a library such as HZ01 like this? I was under the impression they are to be used as sold. Do people convert commercial libraries to do this or is it a thing people do when recording their own Drum Libraries (something I have been eager to do for the past year but waiting till I get a bit of downtime)?


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## murderbagmitch (Aug 29, 2017)




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## robharvey (Aug 29, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> I bought a whole Acoustic Drum kit actually but how does using a floor Tom work when wanting other percussion? Would you use the Tom to play in rhythms and then replace with Samples? Or obviously blend the Tom in with end results?



I'd always aim to blend in real instruments with samples stuff. But funnily enough you can convert those tom hits to midi if you're running logic, not sure on other DAWs.

For me it just feels better to put an idea in with a drum and work backwards. Particularly with Taikos or Bass Drums.


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## John Busby (Aug 29, 2017)

robharvey said:


> convert those tom hits to midi if you're running logic


This does work but once you start moving into 32nds and 64th notes it gets ugly, there's still programming that needs to be done either way


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

robharvey said:


> I'd always aim to blend in real instruments with samples stuff. But funnily enough you can convert those tom hits to midi if you're running logic, not sure on other DAWs.
> 
> For me it just feels better to put an idea in with a drum and work backwards. Particularly with Taikos or Bass Drums.



Well it's definitely a good thing to talk about. I also have a Roland V-Kit and I'm intending on having that set up for all my drum libraries. Although not the same as recording an Acoustic instrument, hitting drum samples with Sticks does feel good! In my brief experience with Orchestral instruments I have Blended a Live String Player with Samples and it changed everything so I think blending the two worlds is essential. Even if it's one live element etc



Nils Neumann said:


> for all the hz01 users: http://vi-control.net/community/threads/spitfire-audio-hz01-rhythmic-set-freebie.35119/#post-3747436



Thank you so much for this Nils. What a brilliant resource. I have every single patch of HZ01 loaded in my template so I am loading every one of these midi files onto their correct tracks and I am going to study their rhythms and go from there!


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## JohnG (Aug 29, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> Is it possible to map a library such as HZ01 like this?



It may be possible, but I don't know how to do it.

MB Gordy (the percussionist in the video) is great to work with, totally patient with whatever you throw at him, and very creative. Highly recommend. He has his own studio and can work remotely.


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## JohnG (Aug 29, 2017)

jononotbono said:


> a Live String Player with Samples and it changed everything so I think blending the two worlds is essential. Even if it's one live elemen



very true! Just one player can be transformative.


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## jononotbono (Aug 29, 2017)

Well. That took a little while to get every single Midi File from the rhythmic set freebie into a HZ01 Drum Template. Purely to learn from of course...


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