# Cubase 8.5 released



## Bunford

It has gone live a matter of minutes ago. There is a way to get through to order page but Steinberg website not updated yet so no way of knowing what it is exactly!

Here is the proof, and for the brave who may want to dive right in!

https://shop.steinberg.net/c/shop?ID=46056


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## lucor

Please make it fix disabled instrument tracks, please please please.
Hope we'll know more by tomorrow.


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## DS_Joost

Im going to dive in and order it. Will get back as with the results, wish me luck!


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## Bunford

Here is the manual:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uhlss4tld3fug22/Operation_Manual (1).pdf?dl=0


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## DS_Joost

Just paid for it, awaiting the download!

Edit: downloading now, it's a 800+ mb download, and I've got slow internet, so be back in a while!


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## Bunford

Some photos:


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## DS_Joost

Looks really cool, looking forward to it!


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## Bunford

Has some minor graphical bugs it seems:


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## Jimmy Hellfire

Bunford said:


> Some photos:



Ooh, please tell me that's an arp/seq in Retrologue 2 I'm seeing there.


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## Patrick de Caumette

Where's the "What's new" doc at?
Not a word about 8.5 on the site...


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## Bunford

Patrick de Caumette said:


> Where's the "What's new" doc at?
> Not a word about 8.5 on the site...


Nothing public yet. The website is yet to reflect 8.5 is out. The above link is a random link I stumbled across. Perhaps it is inadvertently live at the moment, but works either way and let's you upgrade. It's usually first Wednesday of December new releases have officially come out in recent years if memory serves. Website and a selection of YouTube will likely be released tomorrow morning (in Europe) or Wednesday morning.


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## Guy Rowland

Wow, good find. I tried to figure out what was new from the manual, but 1200 pages and... nah.

Will 8.5 coexist with 8 do you think?


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## Jediwario1

Since you've installed it Bunford, is there a "New Features" pdf? for example with 7.5 its at (C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 7.5\Documentation)


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## Bunford

I


Jediwario1 said:


> Since you've installed it Bunford, is there a "New Features" pdf? for example with 7.5 its at (C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 7.5\Documentation)


I have not purchased or installed it yet!


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## Bunford

Guy Rowland said:


> Wow, good find. I tried to figure out what was new from the manual, but 1200 pages and... nah.
> 
> Will 8.5 coexist with 8 do you think?


Same thoughts here! Waiting until the release notes come out myself!


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## Patrick de Caumette

Will one of the braves that installed it already please let us know what the exciting features are?


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## DS_Joost

Just downloaded and installed, here's a screen from Retrologue 2. As you can see, yes, it has an arp! It also has a new FX page and a way to lock the arp, like Omnisphere 2.

Edit: btw the graphical glitch mentioned above isn't there. There are also new buttons on the transport bar, mainly for metronome controls.


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## Bunford

DS_Joost said:


> Just downloaded and installed, here's a screen from Retrologue 2. As you can see, yes, it has an arp! It also has a new FX page and a way to lock the arp, like Omnisphere 2.
> 
> Edit: btw the graphical glitch mentioned above isn't there. There are also new buttons on the transport bar, mainly for metronome controls.


Awesome! Retrologue is a bit of an underrated synth. This will make it better! Any release notes with the installation?


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## DS_Joost

By the way, it co-exists right along Cubase 8, no changes here for as far as I know.


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## DS_Joost

There is also a thing called VST-Transit, which looks to be something to connect to each other, like that old thing... what's it called?

Edit: can't find anything that look like release notes, I'm afraid. So far the program works great, to be honest. No strangeness whatsoever. Loaded in my template just great. It seems snappier. Like, a LOT snappier!


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## DS_Joost

Here's a picture of the Retrologue 2 FX page. Looks pretty comprehensive!


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## Jediwario1




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## Bunford

Any other plugins or effects upgraded? Or any new ones?


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## DS_Joost

Can't find them right now, will post as soon as I find them! Also, in the hub, in the news and tutorials section, it just says ''This is a test version'' in all entries. So that is being worked on too I guess.

There must be some more things that I just can't find yet, but I will keep on the lookout. Just don't expect many big changes. It doesn't look like one should expect it at least. Some more under the hood stuff, I suppose!

BTW, Retrologue 2 just became a very beefy synth alright!


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## Blakus

If it's a paid upgrade, surely there's some improvements/features that make it worthwhile.


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## MA-Simon

Gah. I bough 8 Full about a month ago.
I was not impressed unfortunally. I am not so shure I will jump on the update bandwagon that soon again. I need more reports first! ...does Steinberg do grace periods on updates?


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## JohannesR

VST transit:

Computer software for enabling the processing of digital content by multiple users in computer networks, including through social networks and websites

https://trademarks.justia.com/791/74/vst-79174150.html


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## Reegs

JohannesR said:


> Computer software for enabling the processing of digital content by multiple users in computer networks, including through social networks and websites


So, some form of collaboration? I'll use my synths to do the hook and you use your drumkit samples to make the beats and neither of us will be in violation of our respective EULAs, and we can see each other's MIDI/Audio?


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## IFM

Very cool but I don't mind waiting...at least till tomorrow.


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## ChristopherDoucet

Global Toggle Timebase ....Fingers Crossed


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## ChristopherDoucet

MA-Simon said:


> Gah. I bough 8 Full about a month ago.
> I was not impressed unfortunally. I am not so shure I will jump on the update bandwagon that soon again. I need more reports first! ...does Steinberg do grace periods on updates?


What were you not impressed with?


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## Guy Rowland

Well good work and fun while it lasted - link has gone now. I did try yesterday to log in at the shop site, but it wouldn't take my current login while the main shop did. It'll likely pop up again tomorrow or the day after for real.

EDIT - there's a few screenshots here - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=226&t=88698 . Looks like they niceified the font. Most interested in that snappier-opening comment (which I now can't find... did I read that here somewhere that opening a project was much snappier? Losing my marbles with age...)


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## jonathanwright

I hope it's true that they've improved font rendering. I also hope they've added retina support for Cubase and third party plugins.


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## jononotbono

Please let the problems with Asio Guard and VEPro be a thing of the past with this update!


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## Guy Rowland

jononotbono said:


> Please let the problems with Asio Guard and VEPro be a thing of the past with this update!



Me too.

There's so little obviously different with 8.5, you kinda hope that its under the hood stuff that has had most attention here. If it is - great. If not - not great.


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## FriFlo

This Cloud VST-thing looks rather uninteresting to me ...

Why should I want plugins applied in a cloud with 2 seconds of latency? Especially with sample virtual instruments, this is not an option! BUT!!! If they would use that technology to enable you to offload VSTis to slaves, like VEpro does, but with the actual VSTi GUI all on the main PC ... that would be welcome indeed!


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## lucor

FriFlo said:


> This Cloud VST-thing looks rather uninteresting to me ...
> 
> Why should I want plugins applied in a cloud with 2 seconds of latency? Especially with sample virtual instruments, this is not an option! BUT!!! If they would use that technology to enable you to offload VSTis to slaves, like VEpro does, but with the actual VSTi GUI all on the main PC ... that would be welcome indeed!




That video is 5 1/2 years old, who knows what it looks like now or if it's even the same thing.

And regarding the new features of 8.5, there definitely has to be something, not just under the hood stuff. I'm not paying money for bug fixes.


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## FriFlo

lucor said:


> And regarding the new features of 8.5, there definitely has to be something, not just under the hood stuff. I'm not paying money for bug fixes.


You will not have a choice what you pay for with a subscription model. That is why I hate these!


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## brett

I've got to say that given the graphics lag issues etc and other bugs so many have reported with 8.0.3 over at SB forum this comes across as way premature. (And yes, I know it is actually premature given it's not officially released yet but you see what I'm getting at)


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## jononotbono

Guy Rowland said:


> Me too.
> 
> There's so little obviously different with 8.5, you kinda hope that its under the hood stuff that has had most attention here. If it is - great. If not - not great.



Exactly. I couldn't care (at all) about new Plugins or another Digital Cloud hovering over my life. I just want C Pro 8 to work and be utterly stable. There are always improvements to be made, for example, Lock Locators, Multi Track Freeze, Track Rearrange in Mix Console, etc etc but I can and do live without these things. Not being able to use Asio Guard with Vepro is, in my opinion, a priority to fix.


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## FriFlo

I also don't necessarily want new features. But I agree with Lucor, that having to pay for bugfixes is quite scandalous!


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## Bunford

FriFlo said:


> I also don't necessarily want new features. But I agree with Lucor, that having to pay for bugfixes is quite scandalous!


I have to agree wih this. Especially when other DAWs like Logic, Ableton, Bitwig, Reaper, Pro Tools, DP etc all bring out step versions as free updates.


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## Polarity

Jediwario1 said:


>


What?! 493 $ for upgrade from Cubase 4.5?
It has always been around 300 euros... 
well, it's 299 euros for me (in my account) at the moment upgrade to C8 PRO.


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## stonzthro

Bunford said:


> I have to agree wih this. Especially when other DAWs like Logic, Ableton, Bitwig, Reaper, Pro Tools, DP etc all bring out step versions as free updates.


I'd scratch Pro Tools off that list of "free updates"... but the rest, yeah.


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## Daryl

jononotbono said:


> Please let the problems with Asio Guard and VEPro be a thing of the past with this update!


Is that likely? I would have thought that if they were going to have to re-write the audio engine, if would more likely happen in a full update, rather than an incremental one. I hope that I'm wrong, but I haven't updated to Nuendo 7 because of this (and a few other) issue, and won't be updating until it is fixed.

D


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## Guy Rowland

While we're all wildly speculating....

A rewrite of the audio engine would be the feature to warrant an upgrade. It wouldn't need as big a rewrite as ASIOguard 2 from what I understand, but it does need a pretty low level change in behaviour.


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## jononotbono

I only started using VEPro with C Pro 8 for the past couple of months so I have never known there not to be a problem with Asio Guard 2 and VEPro. What was the last version of Cubase without this problem? Oh and by the way, I'm not speculating nor am I saying anything will or won't happen. I have just simply shared a wish of mine that this gets fixed. Wish in one hand, spit in the other etc etc haha


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## zolhof

Wow, you guys are fast! Still no changelog? This guessing game is kinda pointless..

IMHO Retrologue and some minor cosmetic changes are not worth of a .5 update. I'd gladly pay to finally see the issue with VEPro gone. Come on Steiny, you can do it!


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## Guy Rowland

jononotbono said:


> What was the last version of Cubase without this problem?



VE Pro has never worked with ASIOguard. Thing is, with ASIOguard 1, not much did work well with it, so it tended to just get ignored. But with C8, the CPU use increased significantly, UNLESS you enabled ASIOguard. I find on the low setting VE Pro works ok - just - but its not really as efficient as 7 I think, it feels more on the edge now than it used to I think. On medium it would be better CPU-use, but then it just falls over completely when you change tracks or anything.


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## DS_Joost

Ok guys, went to bed yesterday night, and just came back for work. I see there are a lot of questions, so here goes. I also spoke with a Steinberg employee today, and he had this to say:

1)the version I have bought and are using right now is final. I can't get a release log, and he couldn't tell when the update will go live officially, but he said it would be very, very soon (somewhere the next few days, I expect).

2)as expected, most changes are under the hood. This update did not focus on features, but on getting the program as stable, and as fast as possible.

3)the VEPro issue has been closed for the most part, and should be fixed in this and the upcoming 8.0.4.0 update, which will also release very soon. Fixed, as in, on Steinberg's part. Nothing official has come out of Vienna, yet.

4)the fix I'm talking about is due to a rewrite of the VST protocol. Again, Vienna has to do their part to coincide with this, but it's being worked on hard by both parties. It's a two way problem, and if all is well one of the two sides should be fixed by now.

5)Retrologue 2 is an awesome, awesome synth, much more powerful than before. It now features an arp and three oscillators instead of two, plus an effects page with a new resonator effect.

6)Both the transport panel and the dropdown menu have seen some big changes, at least in layout.

7)Did Cubase have a spectrum analyzer before?

8)To answer Guy, that was me who said it feels snappier. It does, and it's not a placebo effect. Like I said, the biggest things in this update are going on under the hood, but the Steinberg employee could not tell what exactly because he wasn't allowed to. As such, I also have no release date, and new release notes yet.

9)The sale of the new update was a glitch, so that's why they removed it. Guess I was fast enough and got lucky...

That's all I can say for now. I will keep you updated once I find new stuff.


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## InLight-Tone

I don't need another VA synth, does anyone? What I really was looking forward to was fixing the enable/disable track feature so that it works completely so we can build large templates WITHOUT using VEPro and updating the multi-window paradigm from the 80's especially getting rid of that floating transport (hint Studio One)....


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## DS_Joost

InLight-Tone said:


> I don't need another VA synth, does anyone? What I really was looking forward to was fixing the enable/disable track feature so that it works completely so we can build large templates WITHOUT using VEPro and updating the multi-window paradigm from the 80's especially getting rid of that floating transport (hint Studio One)....



I will try and see wether that has been fixed...

Edit: please don't try and jump to conclusions. I'm not an expert like some of you guys! There may be much more going on than I'm able to see, so please don't take what I say as the be all, end all of this update. These are just my personal observations!


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## Daryl

Unfortunately Steinberg has been saying that the VEP issue has been fixed for a long time. Then they were told by VSL why it didn't work, and that they should make ASIO Guard work like the Live mode in Logic. Then SB said it would require a re-write of their audio engine (should have done it properly in the first place). So that's what people are waiting for. Not some sort of corporate BS or buck passing. A re-write of the Cubase audio engine.There is nothing that VSL can do until that happens. If SB is now saying that they have not done this, the update won't have fixed the VEP issues.

D


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## kdm

Guy Rowland said:


> VE Pro has never worked with ASIOguard. Thing is, with ASIOguard 1, not much did work well with it, so it tended to just get ignored. But with C8, the CPU use increased significantly, UNLESS you enabled ASIOguard. I find on the low setting VE Pro works ok - just - but its not really as efficient as 7 I think, it feels more on the edge now than it used to I think. On medium it would be better CPU-use, but then it just falls over completely when you change tracks or anything.



The best approach for using VEPro for the moment is to disable ASIO Guard for the VEP plugin in the Plugin Manager. That prevents the track switching problem with VEP connected tracks. This approach has been working fine here for a while and should suffice for most users until there is a revision to AG2.


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## Jimmy Hellfire

It is great that Retrologue is getting the - much needed - arp, and with the additional OSC + LFOs, it's becoming an even more potent and interesting VST.
But the rest of the updates so far really isn't something they should be charging money for. So far it reads more like a maintenance update/bugfix build than an update. Not cool. Schweinberg!


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## TJonathanL

I checked through the manual and it seems that you can now double-click to put notes in midi editor with object selection tool(and double-click to delete them). To change velocity you can drag upwards or downwards.


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## Guy Rowland

Thanks for the update, DS. As Daryl says, there's a long and rich history of Steinberg claiming that the AG issue is fixed (and indeed closed) only for it to transpire that something else is stopping us all working properly. VSL have explained exactly what the issue is. Whether or not that is described as an audio engine rewrite, or could be defined as something in the VST protocol, I couldn't be sure. In other words, I'm going with glass half full at the moment, and hoping that once done, VSL really can sort their own side out this time. But this may be a bit of wishful thinking on my part.

Very glad to hear that it is feeling much snappier all round though. I'd happily pay £36 for that alone, if the difference is significant to opening / closing projects etc.


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## kdm

Guy Rowland said:


> VSL have explained exactly what the issue is. Whether or not that is described as an audio engine rewrite, or could be defined as something in the VST protocol, I couldn't be sure.



I don't think it is that simple (or specific as in requiring Steinberg to rewrite AG). The current AG implementation may have advantages over other approaches. VEPro may well be partly to blame for this, and another issue I've reported to both companies.


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## tokatila

Remember that Cubase 8 is going to get at least one more version 8.0.x on the 22nd of December.


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## jneebz

kdm said:


> The best approach for using VEPro for the moment is to disable ASIO Guard for the VEP plugin in the Plugin Manager.


Hi kdm - thanks for the info...quick question:
The only entries in my Plugin Manager are the Vienna Ensemble Audio Inputs. Is this what yo are referring to?


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## rgames

Daryl said:


> Unfortunately Steinberg has been saying that the VEP issue has been fixed for a long time. Then they were told by VSL why it didn't work, and that they should make ASIO Guard work like the Live mode in Logic. Then SB said it would require a re-write of their audio engine (should have done it properly in the first place). So that's what people are waiting for. Not some sort of corporate BS or buck passing. A re-write of the Cubase audio engine.There is nothing that VSL can do until that happens. If SB is now saying that they have not done this, the update won't have fixed the VEP issues.


I wonder if Steinberg are coding for the new real-time handling that's supposed to come to Win10 (maybe it's already there?). I saw a video a while back that said Microsoft wrote Win10 to allow per-thread handling of real-time processes, so a slow process like a bad video card driver won't lock up the entire CPU and (in theory...) it can keep up with faster audio buffer transfers. If Win10 has that feature and Cubase is coded to take advantage of it then that could create some big performance gains. However, I could see that those changes in the audio engine might actually make the situation worse if that capability isn't implemented in the OS (maybe it was promised but not yet implemented). So this might be a case of coding ahead of the OS and hoping that it will catch up. If so, the issue isn't VSL or Steinberg but Microsoft. Not sure on the Mac side...

I remember when 8.0 was first released - there were a number of us who were *very* skeptical of how it would handle plugins like VE Pro. Turns out we were right - that's why I'm still on 7.5. If 8.5 fixes those issues then that might make a worthwhile upgrade.

But if Steinberg are tweaking the audio engine to take advantage of new OS capabilities then we might have to wait on updates to Win10 to really see the advantage in the PC world.

rgames


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## kdm

jneebz said:


> Hi kdm - thanks for the info...quick question:
> The only entries in my Plugin Manager are the Vienna Ensemble Audio Inputs. Is this what yo are referring to?



In the Instruments tab, under info you should also see the VEPro instrument plugins. The VST3 plugin is simply called "Vienna Ensemble Pro" and should be first in the list just above the Event Input plugins. Of course, if you use the x64 VEP plugin, disable for that (last in the list here).


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## jneebz

kdm said:


> In the Instruments tab, under info you should also see the VEPro instrument plugins. The VST3 plugin is simply called "Vienna Ensemble Pro" and should be first in the list just above the Event Input plugins. Of course, if you use the x64 VEP plugin, disable for that (last in the list here).


OK, got it. Thank you! Didn't realize I could disable individual VIs.


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## FriFlo

Any performance/under-the-hood improvements are welcome and I would buy 8.5 only for that, even thoug it is not really fair to charge for features working, that were a promise of the last version! But for Cubase 9 I would really expect them to improve some stuff that didn't get love recently:
- library/VST handling
- note expression
- CC-handling
Damn it! It is 2015 and in spite of some half-baked stuff from NI (Komplete Kontrol series) I still don't have a hardware controller that will give me ...
... dynamically labled keyswitches for articulations!
... parameter names in the matrix editor instead of CC-numbers!
... feedback for controllers of already recorded CCs (lemur, motor faders or endless encoders)!
... all of that with a controller dynamically adjusting to the selected track! I don't want to select my "Berlin Strings Lemur page", I want the controller to be able to know which library I am playing. That shouldn't be to difficult with some setup work on the user side, should it? And it would be freaking cool not having to worry about a lot of cryptic stuff, not having to think around corners, but just having the relevant stuff there! On the hardware controller as well as in the matrix editor (e.g. CC-lanes in the matrix editor have different controlparameter available per track.
I just cannot understand, why nobody will dare to do the obvious ...


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## Guy Rowland

One useful confirmed feature (hey, it's even in the manual) - import tracks from projects. No need to go via archives any more. Tracks can be imported as new tracks or track versions. Nice.


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## rgames

Yeah - the hardware/software integration is not a technical problem, it's a political (protocols) problem. NI can create a hardware controller that integrates into their software. So can Steinberg. So can Novation (automap). So can a number of other manufacturers. But without a standard you're stuck with only those combinations of hardware and software. Steinberg have, historically, preferred the protocol adoption approach (the VST standard, itself, is a good example) so that you can mix and match.

In the long-run that's a better way to go. But you do have to wait for everyone to jump onto one ship, so there's that period of time where the technology is mature but going nowhere because you can't get developers to agree on the implementation.

The part that's curious is that Steinberg haven't been offering such a protocol. And NI don't seem inclined to pitch their protocol as a standard that can be used outside their software.

rgames


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## vrocko

Here is a new features video.


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## Daryl

Guy Rowland said:


> One useful confirmed feature (hey, it's even in the manual) - import tracks from projects. No need to go via archives any more. Tracks can be imported as new tracks or track versions. Nice.


Yes, this seems part way to being Import Session Data. Still a way to go yet though.

D


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## apessino

ChristopherDoucet said:


> Global Toggle Timebase ....Fingers Crossed



Looks like you got your wish.. sort of. You have to select the tracks you want to toggle and then use the logical editor, but still.


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## ChristopherDoucet

apessino said:


> Looks like you got your wish.. sort of. You have to select the tracks you want to toggle and then use the logical editor, but still.



OMG!!!!!!!!!!! (Pops Bottle of Champagne) Life changing for me. Thanks!


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## apessino

ChristopherDoucet said:


> OMG!!!!!!!!!!! (Pops Bottle of Champagne) Life changing for me. Thanks!



Ha ha it is in the video they linked above, the guy mentions it and shows how to do it starting at 4:20. :D


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## zolhof

The new hover controls look tasty, I'm so happy to see this improved. I can't stand the way it is now.. I keep clicking all over the place, never got used lol


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## jononotbono

So I can now finally Toggle Time Base for multiple selected tracks. YES! Group Tracks now appear under the selected track rather than at the bottom of Project window. The Hovering nonsense in the Mixconsole (and other areas) has been amended so names don't hover over other tracks! This is already worth every Penny of the upgrade. 

This is exactly the type of stuff that sucks me into upgrading. Must. Resist...


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## brett

Toggling time base of entire tracks is of limited use to me. 

But toggling time base of individual objects? (A la 'lock to SMPTE in logic) Now *that* would be worth paying for


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## kavinsky

Can anyone confirm that plugin manager collections, presets and so on can be transfered to the new version?
I spent quite some time to setup everything and I really don't want to do it again


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## ChristopherDoucet

jononotbono said:


> So I can now finally Toggle Time Base for multiple selected tracks. YES! Group Tracks now appear under the selected track rather than at the bottom of Project window. The Hovering nonsense in the Mixconsole (and other areas) has been amended so names don't hover over other tracks! This is already worth every Penny of the upgrade.
> 
> This is exactly the type of stuff that sucks me into upgrading. Must. Resist...


Give in..... you need these new features.


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## jononotbono

ChristopherDoucet said:


> Give in..... you need these new features.



OK


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## apessino

Ha ha... that took some convincing!


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## edwinkuipers

Found a few more videos:


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## jononotbono

apessino said:


> Ha ha... that took some convincing!


 I do welcome genuine internet humour. I'm sure when I've drunk 20 Cans of Strongbow I'll wake up and find 8.5 installed on my PC haha!


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## Allegro

Really liking the direction they went with this time. Its just that I am personally looking for more of such workflow improvements. Automation lanes and drawing for example, is still far behind considering the kind of workflow all other areas provide. But hey! a .5 update, can't complain. Except maybe chordpads (just because it isn't my thing), every single workflow improvement featured here will be useful for me in one way or another.


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## Reegs

I'm really liking what I see on all the usability enhancements. Those new punch recording settings are a nice touch, also the cursor finally doesn't move when you adjust the tempo, yay. Those new MIDI controls and the tempo map modifiers are also pretty neat. I think I'll be using that double click input method a lot.


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## AlexRuger

Love this direction. I yelled "thank f*cking god" out loud when the video said that clicking on an automation lane automatically activates read mode. I've used Cubase for years and that still trips me up *literally* every time. 

Can't wait to get 8.5!


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## tokatila

Midi editing improvements are worth the upgrade price alone. Dragging the velocity while creating the notes is great!

Btw. Official launch is today.


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## edwinkuipers

Here are the rest of the videos, as far as people have posted them online:


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## jamwerks

Wow, so much cool new features! Love the direction SB is going. Midi and CC editing will be much easier. Looks like they brought in some Logic-type features. 

And the new ruler and transport stuff as well. Awesom!!!


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## edwinkuipers

Been confirmed by a Steinberg site admin that the release will happen some time today.


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## Guy Rowland

Looks like a useful update, quite a lot of "finally" features. Main thing I'm still waiting for is audio engine / responsiveness stuff. The problem with the media bay whizziness is that most of that stuff is integrated into Steinberg content only.

Pocket money upgrade though, so I'll have it easily for the usability improvements that are there, even if I never touch their cloud thing, chord pads and Retrologue 2.


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## edwinkuipers

Guy Rowland said:


> Looks like a useful update, quite a lot of "finally" features. Main thing I'm still waiting for is audio engine / responsiveness stuff. The problem with the media bay whizziness is that most of that stuff is integrated into Steinberg content only.
> 
> Pocket money upgrade though, so I'll have it easily for the usability improvements that are there, even if I never touch their cloud thing, chord pads and Retrologue 2.



I thought I was going nuts, since I read the exact same reply on KVR a few seconds ago. Then noticed your sig :D


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## Guy Rowland

(changed a typo - the VI-C version is new and improved!)

The best features we've seen so far for me are the improved add tracks, the quick copy button thing and import tracks. As often the case, the big ticket shiny things they'll be excited about are pretty superfluous, and its a little draining to think how many person-hours have been spent into creating Steinberg-only cloud solutions etc, but nevertheless am pragmatic about the smaller but significant workflow additions.

Their website is updating now, won't be long to see if they've fixed any audio engine stuff.


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## Pietro

Looks like a quite good update this time. New stuff in the midi editing area seem gold.

The VST Transit thingy, is an intriguing feature. Should we be able to find collaborators this way and contact directly?

One thing that I would love to see in the future, if we are going the cloud way, would be a complete project sharing. You know, work on your stuff, like recording vocals, while your other friend records guitars. And then see all of this in your shared project as soon as one of you finishes, without having to constantly open and close projects, find the sync button etc. So basically, what you can already do with an iCloud Numbers sheet. Just lock the track that is being worked on on the other side and unlock, updated with new content as soon as it is finished. 

- Piotr


----------



## IFM

Looks like it's about to finally go official. From what I see in the videos I'm excited about this update.


----------



## zolhof

Some workflow features are heavily inspired by S1, really liked the direction Steinberg went with this one.

Here's hoping to see the AG issue addressed.


----------



## lucor

It's here!
http://www.steinberg.net/en/product...85.html?et_cid=15&et_lid=22&et_sub=Cubase 8.5


----------



## lucor

Version history for 8.5:
https://www.steinberg.net/index.php...lutions/Cubase_8.5.0_Issues_and_Solutions.pdf


----------



## jonathanwright

Downloaded and installed, no issues I can see so far opening an existing project, other than the 'Routing' text in the mixer being HUGE until I closed and reopened it.

Generally it's appearance seems a bit 'flatter' and cleaner, but I'm finding the text a little small and blurry at times.


----------



## Zhao Shen

Will have to pick this up... I'm a sucker for simplicity, efficient use of space and workflow, so this update is huge for me.


----------



## Pietro

Does anyone know how to make the folder tracks to actually look like this?
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/download/file.php?id=13186&sid=282315e6b2048881b7efbb49b32966c9

- Piotr


----------



## jonathanwright

Hey Piotr, do you mean to show the contents when the folders are closed?

That option's at Prefs > Event Display > Folders


----------



## InLight-Tone

Any improvements to the enabling/disabling track feature?


----------



## Rob Elliott

Nice new features.


----------



## Pietro

jonathanwright said:


> Hey Piotr, do you mean to show the contents when the folders are closed?
> 
> That option's at Prefs > Event Display > Folders



Thanks, but this is how it has always looked over here, and options in the event display section do nothing about it:





Cheers,
- Piotr


----------



## RCsound

same question...anyone know if the problems presented in 8.30 when disabled/enable instruments tracks are solved?


----------



## woodsdenis

For those on MAC no 10.9.support only 10.10/11


----------



## bjderganc

I just updated to 8.5 via the grace period freebie update. It looks like Cubase added 8.5 as an additional program, rather than overwriting 8.0.3. Is this the expected behavior for Cubase updates?


----------



## lucor

bjderganc said:


> I just updated to 8.5 via the grace period freebie update. It looks like Cubase added 8.5 as an additional program, rather than overwriting 8.0.3. Is this the expected behavior for Cubase updates?


Yes, this always happens with major updates.


----------



## bjderganc

lucor said:


> Yes, this always happens with major updates.


Awesome! Seems like that should completely mitigate the risk of updating.


----------



## Guy Rowland

RCsound said:


> same question...anyone know if the problems presented in 8.30 when disabled/enable instruments tracks are solved?



Not entirely. Quick Controls still not recalling right. So far everything else to do with track enabling / disabling been fine after an hour or so's session playing.


----------



## MA-Simon

Reegs said:


> Those new MIDI controls and the tempo map modifiers are also pretty neat


Nice Stuff!


----------



## kavinsky

working smooth so far.
midi editor enhancements are very usable.


----------



## Polarity

Polarity said:


> What?! 493 $ for upgrade from Cubase 4.5?
> It has always been around 300 euros...
> well, it's 299 euros for me (in my account) at the moment upgrade to C8 PRO.



I verified just now: the upgrade to Cubase 8.5 from C4 and C5 is still 299 euros!
So no change, no raise for upgrade from the oldest versions: good Steinberg.
That first image with those upgrade prices was wrong... or was just in canadian or australian dollars (not US then) currency maybe?

Really put on the buylist this time the upgrade...
That Import Tracks from other projects would be really a killer choice for me, together the already present Hide Tracks.
Anyone know already if it works with old versions projects too... or just C8 and C8.5?
Thanks.


----------



## Virtuoso

Main fonts are nice and sharp, but all the icons, buttons, window controls etc (basically all the graphical elements) are still fuzzy low resolution - even the new Retrologue 2 plugin. It looks very poor on a 5k iMac - pixellated and fuzzy like a jpeg zoomed in 400%. Disappointing - it wouldn't have taken much to update the buttons, mixer graphics and toolbar icons.



jonathanwright said:


> I hope it's true that they've improved font rendering. I also hope they've added retina support for Cubase and third party plugins.



The retina third party plugins I've tried so far (FabFilter Q2, C2 and MB) look fantastic in 8.5. Most developers (UAD, Waves, Native Instruments, Soundtoys, Lexicon, Steinberg etc) still haven't released retina versions of their plugins, but at least Cubase will now support them when/if they do.


----------



## rpaillot

Virtuoso said:


> Main fonts are nice and sharp, but all the icons, buttons, window controls etc (basically all the graphical elements) are still fuzzy low resolution - even the new Retrologue 2 plugin. It looks very poor on a 5k iMac - pixellated and fuzzy like a jpeg zoomed in 400%. Disappointing - it wouldn't have taken much to update the buttons, mixer graphics and toolbar icons.



Are you sure you don't have a graphical problem ? 
It doesn't look that bad on my screen and I have a big one : 40'' in 4K resolution . 
I don't see why the fact it's a 5K would suddenly lower the quality of the Cubase icons...or maybe you are in scaled resolutions mode which wouldn't surprise me as 5K is a big resolution and the iMac screen isn't bigger than 27'' so that's why it needs to be in scaled mode which basically zoom everything. You can check that in sys pref / displays 

8.5 looks sharper and cleaner . But it always looks like this every update :D


----------



## Virtuoso

All resolutions on a 5k iMac are scaled to a certain degree (you actually have to hack it to get the screen's native 5120x2880 resolution, which is pretty much unusable on a 27" screen). The 'default' setting is 2560x1440, which means that programs need to include 4x graphical assets to look correct when scaled. Many other developers have spent the past 3 years doing exactly this (just as iOS developers have to for the high res displays on iPhones >4 or iPads >3) - so the whole of Adobe Creative Suite, Logic Pro X, Studio One 3 etc look great, while Cubase lags behind with its fuzzy low res graphics.


----------



## JT3_Jon

If someone might be willing to test this it would be appreciated. In cubase 8 when you assigned a VCA fader to a group of instruments, it would make it so when you record enable one instrument it forced all tracks associated with this VCA fader to also turn on. This became a major problem for me in a recent song where I quickly wanted to adjust the volume of all my orchestral instruments so I assigned them to a VCA fader, but then I later when I wanted to add a new string part, the whole orchestra was record enabled.

I am glad with the new features added in 8.5. I did find myself saying "finally" for a lot of these features haha, but I'm glad they are focusing on making cubase better and easier / quicker to use than simply adding more instruments / fx / graphical changes without functional improvements.


----------



## Rex282

Did anyone have a problem wit the update?Mine didn't change to 8.5 in my eLicenser after I click maintenance per the instructions.


----------



## Guy Rowland

JT3_Jon said:


> If someone might be willing to test this it would be appreciated. In cubase 8 when you assigned a VCA fader to a group of instruments, it would make it so when you record enable one instrument it forced all tracks associated with this VCA fader to also turn on. This became a major problem for me in a recent song where I quickly wanted to adjust the volume of all my orchestral instruments so I assigned them to a VCA fader, but then I later when I wanted to add a new string part, the whole orchestra was record enabled.



Yup. Been complaining about that for a year - crazy innit? Do add your support here - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=230&t=71032&e=0


----------



## zvenx

kavinsky said:


> Can anyone confirm that plugin manager collections, presets and so on can be transfered to the new version?
> I spent quite some time to setup everything and I really don't want to do it again




Yes..... 8.5 does it automatically. If not, you can transfer manually a file that has all this info.
rsp


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

zvenx said:


> Yes..... 8.5 does it automatically. If not, you can transfer manually a file that has all this info.



Which file would that actually be? I tried copying "Defaults" and "User Preferences" from C8, but those do not contain any FX presets etc.


----------



## zvenx

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Which file would that actually be? I tried copying "Defaults" and "User Preferences" from C8, but those do not contain any FX presets etc.


PluginManager and Plugin are the two I copy... not sure which one does it, I suspect the former.
rsp


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig

Another release, another year with an archaic, broken explosion of wonky windows. There's still a loooong way up to the nearest contenders in workspace customizability. I've lost my confidence that Steinberg knows what the hell they are doing when it comes to design and aesthetics.
Also, who in their right mind thinks 5 pixel zones around the edges with hidden functionality are a good idea?

The midi editor improvements are actually looking really good - and Cubase's midi editing is quickly becoming the only reason I don't switch completely to Reaper.


----------



## Pietro

I have to agree on the wonky windows. I never have gotten used to the windows management introduced in C8. I always end up with wrong window on top, or the project window being not in the front after closing a VST or something. It's been a year, and it still feels totally wrong to me.

I know there's the benefit of allowing to have any window be brought to the front with alt-tab or from the task bar (instead of Cubase menu), but still it's somehow incredibly annoying.

- Piotr


----------



## paaltio

Still wishing for multitrack CC editing and CC generation tools in the logical editor (preferably context-sensitive, so automatic diminuendos across the arrangement are possible). Not really holding my breath for those. Orchestral composition is such a small niche for Steinberg we only sometimes get the odd feature targeted at us (e.g. VST Expression), but mostly it's just bread crumbs from MIDI features targeted to other genres, as is the case in this release. Hoping to be positively surprised on a future release.

Anyway, 8.5.0 could have all that and more, and I still couldn't use it. The interface lag from 8.0.30 has gotten even worse, and in an empty session drawing CC lines there's a huge latency between releasing the mouse button and the line appearing. I would estimate the highest I got was 300ms. This is on a [email protected] Also the cursor is very laggy, so the drawing itself is a pain.

Staying on 8.0.20 until a patch hopefully fixes that problem, although I'm getting slightly worried due to the fact that it's not already fixed, seeing as a lot of people did report it from 8.0.30. But it was registered as a collected issue on Steinberg's forums only in October, so seeing as this build is a few weeks after that, it's possible they just didn't get to it in time.


----------



## lucor

Since I still have to wait a bit until I can purchase the upgrade, is somebody kind enough to test if the Expression Map bug with disabled instrument tracks is still there?

This is how you recreate it, only takes like 2-3 minutes:
1. Create a new empty project
2. Add a single instrument track (Prologue for example), load an expression map and assign it to the track
3. Disable the track
4. Save the project and close it
5. Open the project
6. Add a second instrument track (Prologue again) and assign the expression map
7. Disable the track
8. Save the project and close it
9. Open the project
10. Enable track2 and the expression map link is OK (Optional step, does not affect the outcome)
11. Enable track1 and the expression map link is gone

Thanks!


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

lucor said:


> Since I still have to wait a bit until I can purchase the upgrade, is somebody kind enough to test if the Expression Map bug with disabled instrument tracks is still there?



I just tried it - the bug is still there. Quite irksome actually.


----------



## lucor

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I just tried it - the bug is still there. Quite irksome actually.


Thanks Jimmy. That's really disappointing...


----------



## jonathanwright

It is something of a frustrating update, with seemingly very few - if any - of the most complained about bugs being fixed, with time instead being spent on an update to Retrologue (a reaction to Alchemy in Logic X?) and the VST Cloud. How much time must have been invested in those rather than tackling the things that affect composers the most?


----------



## Pablocrespo

I know guillermo from steinberg reads this forum, because the steinberg forum is a desert place regarding steinberg reps responding.

Please Guillermo, when are the bugs and workflow problems going to be adressed?

-Key command focus (why can't you divide mixer and project commands so we can use them no matter where the focus is, having to click with the mouse to use a key command defeats the purpose).

-Loosing Expression maps, quick controls, etc, when dissabling tracks.

-Vca grouped tracks record arming (this is unbelievable after a year).

I believe the majority of users didn't need vst cloud and some of the new features. WE NEED THE SOFTWARE WE PAY FOR, WORKING WITHOUT BUGS!


----------



## jononotbono

I'm going to upgrade this evening. I can 100% guarantee I won't even bother looking at VST Cloud. For me, an absolute waste of time. Excited that the Hovering nonsense has been addressed and looking forward to the new midi editing features. I guess AG2 stays off for now then. Shame.


----------



## aorsongmachine

Planning to upgrade soon. Still using 7.5 right now.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Well I'm pretty pleased with the upgrade. I have a large template with disabled tracks, over 1000. It used to take a long time with saving but it's pretty quick now. Totally usable without all the VEPro and multiple computer nonsense.

Cubase still seems to forget the expression maps though, but I've saved all my tracks as track presets so a quick reload brings them back.

I do agree about the 80's window thing, but it seems they are preparing slowly but surely to go the route of Studio One at some point.

The workflow enhancements are great especially in the key and drum editors, that alone was worth it...


----------



## ChristopherDoucet

If I upgrade from Pro 8 to Pro 8.5, will it replace my version of 8? 

Or can I still use 8 and 8.5 separately? I want to see if 8.5 works a little better for me, but I don't want to lose my working 8 if that's not the case.

Thanks


----------



## catsass

ChristopherDoucet said:


> If I upgrade from Pro 8 to Pro 8.5, will it replace my version of 8?
> 
> Or can I still use 8 and 8.5 separately? I want to see if 8.5 works a little better for me, but I don't want to lose my working 8 if that's not the case.
> 
> Thanks


Installing 8.5 will leave 8 fully intact and functional.


----------



## Guy Rowland

ChristopherDoucet said:


> If I upgrade from Pro 8 to Pro 8.5, will it replace my version of 8?
> 
> Or can I still use 8 and 8.5 separately? I want to see if 8.5 works a little better for me, but I don't want to lose my working 8 if that's not the case.
> 
> Thanks



That's the good news. The two co-exist, the new program is a modest update size-wise and all projects are interchangable. For the low cost, I'd say its worth getting.

HOWEVER... 'taint right. I've done one of those open letter things to Steinberg - surely there must be a better road ahead than this? http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=226&t=88895


----------



## tokatila

I'm finding that 8.5 feels more buggy than 8.0.30.

-Sometimes if it's unused for a couple of hours, the whole thing just gets stuck. Just stuck.
-Scanning for VST instruments after adding new directories, nothing happens (this can be circumvented by just adding the directory, but not refreshing it and the restarting Cubase).
-Insert plugin loading sometimes fail, don't know why at it seems to be always a different plugin (gives the warning to close Cubase, but doesn't crash it)

-More erratic behavior altogether, was very stable for me 8.0.30. , but now I have had to force-close from the task manager a couple of times. I'm not yet sure why.

It's starting to feel there is a trend that I'm duped to buy the new version with more bugs than the previous version.

Dubase, anyone?


----------



## rayinstirling

At first I had the hanging thing when closing Cubase however since doing a little work on a project then saving it as a revised file everything works just fine when closing.
It's as if initially it was searching/updating preferences or whatever and taking an age to close. No probs now.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Tokatila - I haven't had any of those issues I have to say, and I've worked with it a fair bit this week. Don't think it's crashed or locked up once - I'm on W7 64 bit.

The two greatest irritants are the side of screen hover things which I utterly detest, and on balance I'm not a fan of the new mixer sends / inserts. Less easy to hit the right thing on a narrow mixer strip, and all the text is replaced by "..." it was actually easier to see what was happening before. Best new features - the drag repeat spot, the new options on new track and the drop in / out locators.


----------



## rpaillot

The new loop function is so plagiarised on Logic X , but I love it. Was secretly hoping they would copy Logic for this function.


----------



## Killiard

Yup, the sends "..." is quite, quite stupid. I'll need to start abbreviating more! 






And one day I'd love a version of Cubase that shuts down without crashing :-(


----------



## tokatila

Guy Rowland said:


> Tokatila - I haven't had any of those issues I have to say, and I've worked with it a fair bit this week. Don't think it's crashed or locked up once - I'm on W7 64 bit.



I should have mentioned that I'm on windows 10 64-bit. Maybe it has something to do with that then.



Killiard said:


> Yup, the sends "..." is quite, quite stupid. I'll need to start abbreviating more!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one day I'd love a version of Cubase that shuts down without crashing :-(



I had the same problem, it ended in 8.0.30 and when I disabled nearly all my 32-bit plugins.


----------



## Killiard

I'll have a check through my plugins folder and see if that's the culprit!

Thanks.


----------



## zolhof

Hi Killiard, C8.5 actually fixed this issue for me. I have no idea what the culprit is. 

You can create a batch file (notepad) with the following:

_taskkill /f /im Cubase8.5.exe_

Save to something like CubaseKill.bat and voilà, no more opening task manager to manually kill the app after every single crash. Just a small convenience.


----------



## MA-Simon

Okay, NOW I feel stupid.

So... I went and _bought_ the 8.5 Update from Steinberg, downloaded the installer. 
Installed it and tried to register the serial with the elicenser center.

But then, upon opening that center and _after_ updating the licenser software I note this:
"Steinberg hase replaced your Cubase Pro 8 License with a 8.5 License, because you bought it on the 15."
Basically a free Grace Perio Update I did not now about...

Well thanks for letting me know in time.


----------



## Jetzer

Wow, I come from C7 and I'm super thrilled with this update. Looked at all the new feature videos from 7.5-8.5, lot's of exciting features & workflow enhancements.

The new add instrument/midi track functions in combination with the disabled track function might be a game-changer for me. I think I might go for a whole new template, not even touching VEP, just Cubase. VEP is great when you don't have to change things for a while + the ability to switch between projects super quick, but to do it all in Cubase works so much better for me. It also bypasses a lot of CPU trouble and extra latency that I experienced with VEP. Set it all up in Cubase, disable 80%, hide it and off we go.


----------



## FredrikJonasson

MA-Simon said:


> But then, upon opening that center and _after_ updating the licenser software I note this:
> "Steinberg hase replaced your Cubase Pro 8 License with a 8.5 License, because you bought it on the 15."
> Basically a free Grace Perio Update I did not now about...



"You bought it on the 15", what does that mean? If it's the year, it isn't working for me..

EDIT: Looks like I did my purchase just a litttle bit to early. If the grace period info hasn't been linked already, here it is: https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/grace_period/cubase_85_grace_period_info.html


----------



## Guy Rowland

JH said:


> The new add instrument/midi track functions in combination with the disabled track function might be a game-changer for me. I think I might go for a whole new template, not even touching VEP, just Cubase. VEP is great when you don't have to change things for a while + the ability to switch between projects super quick, but to do it all in Cubase works so much better for me. It also bypasses a lot of CPU trouble and extra latency that I experienced with VEP. Set it all up in Cubase, disable 80%, hide it and off we go.



Yes, it's the single best new feature for a long time. But IMO it's still not ready for prime time - Quick Controls and some other attributes still aren't recalled properly, and enabling the tracks still feels clumsy. It could do with at least an option of just clicking the disabled track enabling it, and if at all possible that enabling to be a background task so it doesn't hold up the whole DAW.

So I'm not ready to go over 100%, but it's got tons of potential. Wish they'd capitalise on it really.


----------



## rayinstirling

I'm with JH in that "disable track" is a game changer. 
Of course there will always be folks wanting the 110 Metre hurdles to be finished at 100 Metres.
Nothing wrong with that but...........do we move the start or the end?


----------



## Killiard

zolhof said:


> Hi Killiard, C8.5 actually fixed this issue for me. I have no idea what the culprit is.



Meant to post before but C8.5 now seems to be closing my sessions without crashing. The first time I quit after installation it crashed but since then it's been fine. I've been using Cubase for about a year now and this is the first time I've been able to quit properly! Progress!!!


----------



## Waywyn

JH said:


> Wow, I come from C7 and I'm super thrilled with this update. Looked at all the new feature videos from 7.5-8.5, lot's of exciting features & workflow enhancements.
> 
> The new add instrument/midi track functions in combination with the disabled track function might be a game-changer for me. I think I might go for a whole new template, not even touching VEP, just Cubase. VEP is great when you don't have to change things for a while + the ability to switch between projects super quick, but to do it all in Cubase works so much better for me. It also bypasses a lot of CPU trouble and extra latency that I experienced with VEP. Set it all up in Cubase, disable 80%, hide it and off we go.



mentioned this a few times before ... the deactivate function (no, not bounce, freeze or bypass or anything) is probably one of the most revolutionary features since C8! You literally can build a 5000+ tracks template with just 16GB of RAM ... keep them all deactivated and just activate the stuff you really need!

Now if Steinberg would include the feature "deactivate all unused tracks/instruments", this would be absolute killer (together with only show tracks with information)!
You could hit that track after you finished your main writing and have a totally cleaned up and template using way less memory (and therefore faster loading time)


----------



## vicontrolu

This sounds like something easily doable to me with a project logical editor preset, no?


----------



## tokatila

Waywyn said:


> mentioned this a few times before ... the deactivate function (no, not bounce, freeze or bypass or anything) is probably one of the most revolutionary features since C8! You literally can build a 5000+ tracks template with just 16GB of RAM ... keep them all deactivated and just activate the stuff you really need!
> Now if Steinberg would include the feature "deactivate all unused tracks/instruments", this would be absolute killer (together with only show tracks with information)!
> You could hit that track after you finished your main writing and have a totally cleaned up and template using way less memory (and therefore faster loading time)



Hmm..Is this what you mean? For example this (below) selects all the MIDI tracks that are empty and then you can right-click and Disable tracks and it disables all empty tracks. I must be confused since as you can see that is very easy to do?


----------



## Waywyn

tokatila said:


> Hmm..Is this what you mean? For example this (below) selects all the MIDI tracks that are empty and then you can right-click and Disable tracks and it disables all empty tracks. I must be confused since as you can see that is very easy to do?



Sorry, I am sure that deactivating a track works perfectly with instrument track (getting rid of RAM and the used effects, therefore CPU) ... but I am not really sure how it behaves on MIDI tracks ... I can't imagine that it just unloads parts of used Kontakt channels within one instance!


----------



## vicontrolu

If your plan is to use disable/enable tracks you should be using only instrument tracks anyway.


----------



## rayinstirling

I'm sure I read an article some time ago saying instrument tracks having separate instances of say Kontakt use no more processing power in doing so. Obviously this means onboard effects in Kontakt work only on that instrument but I tend to use effects plugins in the DAW more than the sample player.


----------



## vicontrolu

They use more ram though and i guess sime more cpu too, but nothing significant eith today's specs.


----------



## rayinstirling

vicontrolu said:


> They use more ram though and i guess sime more cpu too, but nothing significant eith today's specs.


What are you getting at?
Depending on one's need every user has to populate their box with the appropriate board, processor, ram etc to suit their requirements.
I am quite happy now that as Alex says, we can have as many tracks on our template as we choose in the DAW. If for some that still isn't enough well, they will just have to keep using slaves.

Ah! I see you've changed your post.


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig

Waywyn said:


> the deactivate function (no, not bounce, freeze or bypass or anything) is probably one of the most revolutionary features since C8! You literally can build a 5000+ tracks template with just 16GB of RAM ... keep them all deactivated and just activate the stuff you really need!



Sounds like a really intriguing alternative to VEP. How does a giant template with deactivated tracks impact the project file size and load times?


----------



## Guillermo Navarrete

Hello Pablo,



Pablocrespo said:


> I know guillermo from steinberg reads this forum, because the steinberg forum is a desert place regarding steinberg reps responding.
> 
> Please Guillermo, when are the bugs and workflow problems going to be adressed?
> 
> -Key command focus (why can't you divide mixer and project commands so we can use them no matter where the focus is, having to click with the mouse to use a key command defeats the purpose).
> 
> -Loosing Expression maps, quick controls, etc, when dissabling tracks.
> 
> -Vca grouped tracks record arming (this is unbelievable after a year).
> 
> I believe the majority of users didn't need vst cloud and some of the new features. WE NEED THE SOFTWARE WE PAY FOR, WORKING WITHOUT BUGS!



We understand that you might be frustrated when some issues that affect you in particular are not solved immediately, but rest assure that we work really hard to get most of the issues fixed, there is and will always be a priority list, all your request have already been listed and will be fixed. For the moment I can tell you that two of your request are planned for third upcoming maintenance update (we still do not have an ETA) and the other one will have to wait for two more cycles. As soon as we have a date we'll let you all know.

Thank you very much for your understanding! 

Best regards,
GN


----------



## InLight-Tone

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Sounds like a really intriguing alternative to VEP. How does a giant template with deactivated tracks impact the project file size and load times?



With this latest update, it loads and saves fairly quickly. On Cubase 8, there was quite a wait when saving my projects from my template which has about 1300+ tracks, all instrument tracks dis-abled, with the samples being all individual instances of Kontakt. I'm really pleased with this feature and not having to f*ck around with slaves and VePro. I've setup a mini Lemur template on my phone so I just tap a button and the track is enabled and loads. Quite a fast way to work.

Also as I've mentioned before, when enabling tracks, everything shows up in the mixer in order with stereo output per track nice and clean without a ton of tracks to wade through pre-routed to group channels and what not. With the hide tracks and data feature, this is a game changer in my opinion as you only need one powerful computer yet you can still build a Junkie XL style template without the fuss.

If only I had a second copy of Cubase Pro to run on my Surface Pro but I hate bringing dongles...


----------



## rayinstirling

Yes a GAME CHANGER and I'm not sorry for shouting


----------



## Guy Rowland

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> We understand that you might be frustrated when some issues that affect you in particular are not solved immediately, but rest assure that we work really hard to get most of the issues fixed, there is and will always be a priority list, all your request have already been listed and will be fixed. For the moment I can tell you that two of your request are planned for third upcoming maintenance update (we still do not have an ETA) and the other one will have to wait for two more cycles. As soon as we have a date we'll let you all know.



Thanks for this info - just on a point of clarification - do you mean the third maintenance cycle from now on 8.5?


----------



## vicontrolu

InLight-Tone said:


> With this latest update, it loads and saves fairly quickly. On Cubase 8, there was quite a wait when saving my projects from my template which has about 1300+ tracks, all instrument tracks dis-abled, with the samples being all individual instances of Kontakt. I'm really pleased with this feature and not having to f*ck around with slaves and VePro. I've setup a mini Lemur template on my phone so I just tap a button and the track is enabled and loads. Quite a fast way to work.
> 
> Also as I've mentioned before, when enabling tracks, everything shows up in the mixer in order with stereo output per track nice and clean without a ton of tracks to wade through pre-routed to group channels and what not. With the hide tracks and data feature, this is a game changer in my opinion as you only need one powerful computer yet you can still build a Junkie XL style template without the fuss.
> 
> If only I had a second copy of Cubase Pro to run on my Surface Pro but I hate bringing dongles...



How big are your 1300 instrument tracks project cpr files?


----------



## stonzthro

Wow - imagine Apple giving that kind of feedback! With Logic, you send in a report and rarely hear anything back.


----------



## samphony

stonzthro said:


> Wow - imagine Apple giving that kind of feedback! With Logic, you send in a report and rarely hear anything back.


Imagine Logic would add a deactivate selected tracks key command/button/secondary click option!


----------



## InLight-Tone

vicontrolu said:


> How big are your 1300 instrument tracks project cpr files?


I just checked my last 5 cues and they are coming in around 230 MB or so. In Cubase 8 the saves were long like some 15 seconds+ and I had to sit and wait as Cubase was unresponsive, but the save times in 8.5 are quick now. 

Still haven't figured out if the expression maps are being recalled properly which was an issue and quick controls which I'm not using yet. I would have to reload tracks and resave the template to check or perhaps rebuild from scratch. I have saved all my tracks as track presets so that may be in my near future.


----------



## Jetzer

Man this is amazing, did a few experiments. Loaded up a bunch of Hollywood Strings, as you can see in the pic. Everything is there, but I can hide everything if I want to, so there is no clutter at all. That also removes the need for expression maps imo (for my own workflow).

When I want to enable something, almost every group of patches (stac/pizz/trem etc.) apart from the heavier legato patches load up in a second (SSD).

Also, with everything disabled the project itself loads, saves and quits in a second.

Edit: just routing this thing with it sitting idle in VEP would have cost me loads of CPU, now almost nothing.


----------



## Lassi Tani

JH said:


> Man this is amazing, did a few experiments. Loaded up a bunch of Hollywood Strings, as you can see in the pic. Everything is there, but I can hide everything if I want to, so there is no clutter at all. That also removes the need for expression maps imo (for my own workflow).
> 
> When I want to enable something, almost every group of patches (stac/pizz/trem etc.) apart from the heavier legato patches load up in a second (SSD).
> 
> Also, with everything disabled the project itself loads, saves and quits in a second.
> 
> Edit: just routing this thing with it sitting idle in VEP would have cost me loads of CPU, now almost nothing.



This is a bit offtopic, but JH, I'm quite new to Cubase, how do you compose e.g. for V1, do you open the midi editor separately for all articulations or select all the V1 articulations and edit them together in one midi editor window?


----------



## Jetzer

A combination of both. With expression maps you can have every articulation just on 1 V1 track if you want to. If used that in the past. Normally I had separate tracks for long and short articulations. But you can also have multiple V1 tracks, selected them all and open the key editor and edit them that way, if you use key commands for switching between tracks you can edit them very quick and still see them all in the editor.


----------



## Ian Dorsch

Disheartening to hear that the interface lag is still a thing. I'll probably wait to upgrade until I hear that that's been resolved.


----------



## jneebz

Killiard said:


> Yup, the sends "..." is quite, quite stupid. I'll need to start abbreviating more!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one day I'd love a version of Cubase that shuts down without crashing :-(



Running any Steven Slate plugs? VMR stuff caused Cubase (Mac) to crash on close for me. If you do use them, make a quarantine folder in your plugin folder and move one Slate plug at time...then ctest. Maybe worth a shot...

[EDIT]: Oops. saw that your issue was resolved in 8.5


----------



## NYC Composer

Interestingly enough, my Cubase 6, which practically never crashes, recently crashed a few times with Slate's RC Tube Channel and mix buss.


----------



## jononotbono

JH said:


> Also, with everything disabled the project itself loads, saves and quits in a second.



I am curious about making a template with Disabled tracks but surely the more you Enable and as your project grows in size, will mean the loading and save times will become enormous (depending on what you are using or course) and therefore using VEP would be necessary again?


----------



## Guy Rowland

jononotbono said:


> I am curious about making a template with Disabled tracks but surely the more you Enable and as your project grows in size, will mean the loading and save times will become enormous (depending on what you are using or course) and therefore using VEP would be necessary again?



It's a fair point, but in practice I don't think it's hugely significant. If you have, say, an 800 track template, what's the greatest number of tracks you'd actually use in one project? 10% perhaps? That's the real promise of the disabled track - you never get to anywhere near where you were in resource use.

I'm glad it sounds like they're looking at the whole issue internally at Steinberg, even if I don't understand what Guillermo means with the specifics. I'd definitely urge caution at this stage with jumping on the disabled tracks bandwagon - you could be days setting up Quick Controls / Expression maps or something without realising all that work is thrown away when you re-enable after a save. All the potential in the world, still not quite prime-time ready.


----------



## jononotbono

Guy Rowland said:


> It's a fair point, but in practice I don't think it's hugely significant. If you have, say, an 800 track template, what's the greatest number of tracks you'd actually use in one project? 10% perhaps? That's the real promise of the disabled track - you never get to anywhere near where you were in resource use.
> 
> I'm glad it sounds like they're looking at the whole issue internally at Steinberg, even if I don't understand what Guillermo means with the specifics. I'd definitely urge caution at this stage with jumping on the disabled tracks bandwagon - you could be days setting up Quick Controls / Expression maps or something without realising all that work is thrown away when you re-enable after a save. All the potential in the world, still not quite prime-time ready.



Haha! Well, your points are definitely true (10% etc) but I am not gonna be jumping on the Disabled Tracks bandwagon. I've only just jumped onto the VEP Band Wagon and it's working out brilliantly so far (minus having to turn off Asio Guard etc) with just 1 PC so will see what happens with a 2nd PC next year. I'm also intrigued as to what CPU performance in Cubase 8.5 is like? Since using VEP I don't have any CPU spiking but without it, Cubase 8 was unusable for me (with Asio Guard switched on). I've installed Cubase Pro 8 and had a little play with some of the new features but not put it through a writing session so have to reserve judgement on performance. I'm liking the new Punch in/out feature within the locators but still no "Lock Locators" which is a shame. I'm always accidentally moving those things...


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig

Guy Rowland said:


> It's a fair point, but in practice I don't think it's hugely significant. If you have, say, an 800 track template, what's the greatest number of tracks you'd actually use in one project? 10% perhaps? That's the real promise of the disabled track - you never get to anywhere near where you were in resource use.



I'm not worried about ram or CPU use that much, but I think the project files will be huge. I tried making a quick disabled tracks template with almost all of Berlin Percussion. That amounts to a .cpr file that's around 72 mb. So I guess it's not inconceivable that a full orchestra template would yield project files upwards of 500 megabytes. That, for me, is kind of a bummer, although I would be willing to live with it if save times are still snappy at that size.

Could there be a kind of intelligent incremental save in Cubase that keeps save times down when you have a lot of disabled tracks?


----------



## Jetzer

@jononotbono , I'm just experimenting right now, surely I'll run into a few bugs/issues (some mentioned above). I haven't looked at the project file size, that might be a bit of a bummer at really big templates, but still, the advantage of loading times/speed/cpu etc. ar far bigger imo.

I don't work on a lot of long-term projects, in that case a VEP template might still be better, especially if you are indeed using a lot of tracks & have to switch between cues/projects a lot. For me though, some tracks I don't even use 95% of my template, while some maybe use 10-15%. I would really like the flexibility + speed of using the disabled tracks instead of a VEP template.


----------



## jonathanwright

I really wish there was a way to hide the containing folders when showing _Tracks with Data_.

For example, I've set up a large template using the Disable Track feature which works well. As expected, when composing I pick various instrument from here and there all over my template and from different libraries.

To keep myself organised each library is in it's own folder, otherwise I'd have a hundreds of tracks just under 'Strings'.

When I use the key command to show tracks with data, it works as it should but it also shows the containing folder of each of those tracks.

As a result half of my visible track count taken up by folders, rather than the just instruments themselves. 

Of course I can move the tracks out of the folders to the top of my project but it would be nice to be able to hide them.


----------



## Guillermo Navarrete

Hello,



Guy Rowland said:


> Thanks for this info - just on a point of clarification - do you mean the third maintenance cycle from now on 8.5?



Yes, that is correct. 

Best regards,
GN


----------



## Jetzer

Guy Rowland said:


> I'd definitely urge caution at this stage with jumping on the disabled tracks bandwagon - you could be days setting up Quick Controls / Expression maps or something without realising all that work is thrown away when you re-enable after a save. All the potential in the world, still not quite prime-time ready.



Is using all instrument tracks vs using midi tracks with expression maps not a lot more flexible? I always liked the expression maps, but since I can now disable & hide every track, using all instrument tracks seems much more flexible to me. 

I liked having all V1 shorts on 1 track and using expression maps to select the stacc, pizz or marc samples etc. But if you use the disable function on midi tracks, it disables/enables every track/articulation. So if I want just the pizz samples on this track, it would still enable the other samples of the midi track as well. 

Using instrument tracks you can really select per track which one you want enabled and since you can hide everything it won't leave you with a lot of clutter on your screen.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Guillermo Navarrete said:


> Hello,
> 
> Yes, that is correct.
> 
> Best regards,
> GN



Thanks Guillermo.

You may have seen the (very active) thread on Steinberg forums - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=226&t=88895- about the need for a bit more consolidation of bugs and features going forward. Given how forthcoming you've been here, I wonder if you guys would consider having a publicly available road map for updates (all subject to change of course). A lot of the same issues keep coming up and causing grief, but if we could see "ah, it's down for a fix in a couple of versions" it would certainly help, and mitigate against the howls of horror when each successive version hasn't fixed something. IMO more resources still need to be given to these smaller workflow / bug fixes vs the bigger new features, but transparency on the updates could be an easy win.

Thanks.


----------



## scarred bunny

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Could there be a kind of intelligent incremental save in Cubase that keeps save times down when you have a lot of disabled tracks?



There is. I don't think it did this when the feature was first introduced (I could be mistaken), but now at least there's some clever optimization going on. Obviously with any enabled track, there's always the chance that you've altered some setting or other so it needs to be saved anew every time the project is saved, but saving a track in its disabled state is very fast. 

Track and instrument data is still part of the project of course, so the project files can become pretty huge. I built a test template like this which is about 200 MBs in size. With everything disabled, saving it takes ~1.5 seconds. With everything enabled, it's closer to a minute. 

I don't mind the project size so much personally. Disk space is pretty cheap these days. Time, however, is not  

(Ultimately I went back to using VEP again for now, because the glitches when re-enabling tracks were interfering with my sanity. Brilliant feature with lots of promise, not quite there yet... but very close.)


----------



## Lassi Tani

JH said:


> A combination of both. With expression maps you can have every articulation just on 1 V1 track if you want to. If used that in the past. Normally I had separate tracks for long and short articulations. But you can also have multiple V1 tracks, selected them all and open the key editor and edit them that way, if you use key commands for switching between tracks you can edit them very quick and still see them all in the editor.



Thanks! I've found that expression maps are quite buggy with Play. I get weird jumps, when changing the midi channel with expression map. At least with Play. I think I have to have multiple tracks for each instrument. Actually Eastwest support said: We don't support Expression Maps.


----------



## Jetzer

That's a shame. I have to say, I never had any problems with Play and expression maps in C7. But like I said on the last page, I think expression maps are less important now, since you can disable and hide everything on a per track basis. And you can switch easily between tracks in the key editor so editing is easy as well.


----------



## scarred bunny

sekkosiki said:


> Thanks! I've found that expression maps are quite buggy with Play. I get weird jumps, when changing the midi channel with expression map. At least with Play. I think I have to have multiple tracks for each instrument. Actually Eastwest support said: We don't support Expression Maps.



Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure I understand that: how could EW/Play support or not support expression maps? Expression maps should change the midi data that gets sent to the instrument - Play shouldn't even know whether anything has been expression mapped or not. 

That said, I also had plenty of issues with expression maps (nothing to do with Play). Ultimately I find regular keyswitches are easier to deal with (set up some logical editor presets to make them easier to work with). Or ye good olde one-track-per-articulation - with Cubase's multi-track midi editor, folders and visibility agents, having lots of tracks isn't that hard to deal with, I find.

Bit of a shame. Expression maps is also a great feature, but the glitches made it not quite worth it for me.


----------



## jononotbono

I made Expression Maps for 8Dio Adagio and Agitato (they are somewhere on VI for anybody to have for free) but I had to put a Blank Slot before any of the articulations due to a bug in Cubase and samples not playing back properly each time. Can anyone tell me if this bug has been fixed? I'm away from my Lab for the next 4 days.


----------



## Lassi Tani

scarred bunny said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure I understand that: how could EW/Play support or not support expression maps? Expression maps should change the midi data that gets sent to the instrument - Play shouldn't even know whether anything has been expression mapped or not.
> 
> That said, I also had plenty of issues with expression maps (nothing to do with Play). Ultimately I find regular keyswitches are easier to deal with (set up some logical editor presets to make them easier to work with). Or ye good olde one-track-per-articulation - with Cubase's multi-track midi editor, folders and visibility agents, having lots of tracks isn't that hard to deal with, I find.
> 
> Bit of a shame. Expression maps is also a great feature, but the glitches made it not quite worth it for me.



I thought the problem was in HS, and I sent email to EW support. I mentioned Expression Maps in the email, and I got an answer: we don't support expression maps. I agree, it's Steinberg's problem, not EW's. I've noticed that too, that regular keyswitches are easier to deal with in Expression Maps. And 8.5 didn't fix the issues in switching channels with expression maps.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire

It may be Steinberg's problem that expression maps have hickups when they're supposed to switch across multiple MIDI channels (although I never had issues myself) ... but it's definitely EWs problem that in the year 2015 they can't be assed to make their sample player/flagship library be able to do proper articulation switching. It's ridiculous. If PLAY could do that, expression maps would be usable with it without any issues as well.


----------



## jononotbono

Think it's inevitable that I go down the road of one channel per articulation then. Best get some more ram haha


----------



## Cat

I jave been using East West Orchestra (Play) with Cubase Expression Maps for a while and I found that it worked pretty well. Here are a few things to consider.

I had to insert an empty slot at the top of the Sound Slots list. By that I mean a slot that does not have any "Remote" attached (i.e. there is no keyswitch or anything else that triggers it, and this is displayed as "---"), no Articulation attached, and nothing in the Output Mapping. For some reason every time you press STOP, Cubase automatically resets to the first slot in the map. This hasn't changed in 8.5 (it would be good to have a preference to disable it). If there is a sound attached to this first slot then you will inadvertently go to this sound, different from the one you intended, every time you press STOP. But if this top slot is blank, it will still get activated when press STOP, but since it is blank, nothing will be triggered (you will keep having your intended sound/articulation).

I initially had the Expression Maps' Articulation Type set to "*Direction*". I worked like this on a number of and it was great. However I recently switched to Articulation Type = "*Attribute*" because it is now much better when you splice a MIDI part, move it around, glue it to another (because if on "Direction", the articulation information would get lost doing these editing operations). Problem is that you will need to actually _enter_ the articulation information in a midi part (which information will otherwise not be available at a later playback). You can do this in many ways:
1. press Record->hit keyswitch (no need to hold) -> play the notes (will obviously be recorded);
2. record the notes (with as many passes as you want) but before moving to another part, you have to engage RECORD then _hold_ the keyswitch for the duration of the recorded part. All the notes that were recorded before will now receive this articulation information.
3. Open editor, select notes and assign articulation info from the drop-down menu from the top Info Line.

It is easier in practice than it is to explain it here; you just need to play with it for a little while and figure it out.

Also about controllers. Let's say you have triggered Legato1, moved the the MW to a certain value and then switch to Legato2. You want it to sound continuos, i.e. the first played note in Legato2 articulation has to have the same MW value (otherwise it will suddenly sound out of place). Cubase chases these controller events and sends them to the appropriate channels within an expression maps. But only does this for the _recorded controllers_. It does not do this for the live controllers (when you arm a track and play around, switching articulations with expression maps, and riding controllers). In this case you will notice "unsynchronized controller values" for different articulations in a map. There are ways around this as well for example by using a "CC broadcaster" midi plugin. But once again, it won't be necessary once you actually _record _the controllers.


----------



## scarred bunny

One track per articulation has some advantages as well, I think. Like being able to layer and blend articulations freely without having to set anything up in the sample player in advance. Some polyphonic keyswitching systems allow stacking articulations too, but they typically only work when you don't want the layers to have different timing, velocity or controller data. I also like being able to see right in the arrangement view which articulations are available (because I keep forgetting otherwise ) and which are playing at any given time. And never have to worry about chasing or remembering which keyswitch/program change/CC does what. I often set my libraries up like this even when there are keyswitched multis available. 

Certainly not everyone's cup of tea, and I'm sure many would appreciate it if EW included more keyswitch patches or something similar. I probably wouldn't want to do one track per articulation with VSL - I'd need like a thousand tracks for the string section alone. Imagine doing that with a full Dimension Strings setup. 

When I used expression maps, I set them up to only change midi channels, and using only attributes. It's clunky to set up, but it's not a bad system and certainly works more often than not. But ever so often I'd see weird glitches, like articulations not switching properly or (more often) CC data not chasing properly across channel changes. They usually only happened once, and then everything worked correctly on the next stop/play cycle. Slight annoyance when working on something, but a bigger problem when rendering.


----------



## Lassi Tani

scarred bunny said:


> One track per articulation has some advantages as well, I think. Like being able to layer and blend articulations freely without having to set anything up in the sample player in advance. Some polyphonic keyswitching systems allow stacking articulations too, but they typically only work when you don't want the layers to have different timing, velocity or controller data. I also like being able to see right in the arrangement view which articulations are available (because I keep forgetting otherwise ) and which are playing at any given time. And never have to worry about chasing or remembering which keyswitch/program change/CC does what. I often set my libraries up like this even when there are keyswitched multis available.
> 
> Certainly not everyone's cup of tea, and I'm sure many would appreciate it if EW included more keyswitch patches or something similar. I probably wouldn't want to do one track per articulation with VSL - I'd need like a thousand tracks for the string section alone. Imagine doing that with a full Dimension Strings setup.
> 
> When I used expression maps, I set them up to only change midi channels, and using only attributes. It's clunky to set up, but it's not a bad system and certainly works more often than not. But ever so often I'd see weird glitches, like articulations not switching properly or (more often) CC data not chasing properly across channel changes. They usually only happened once, and then everything worked correctly on the next stop/play cycle. Slight annoyance when working on something, but a bigger problem when rendering.



If I would have 15 separate tracks for V1 for example, is there any way to have one CC data effecting all the tracks? Or do I have to record 15 different CC's?


----------



## InLight-Tone

jonathanwright said:


> I really wish there was a way to hide the containing folders when showing _Tracks with Data_.


^^^^^^^THIS!!!


----------



## Cat

True, but what if you want to edit multiple parts at once (I do this a lot, myself) like all the Strings sections or even all the Strings section plus some Brass? You already have 5 or more Score instruments and _each_ will have to have many tracks (one track per articulation). So you will end up with an midi editor containing many dozens of tracks. Wouldn't it get just way too cluttered?



scarred bunny said:


> One track per articulation has some advantages as well, I think. Like being able to layer and blend articulations freely without having to set anything up in the sample player in advance. Some polyphonic keyswitching systems allow stacking articulations too, but they typically only work when you don't want the layers to have different timing, velocity or controller data. I also like being able to see right in the arrangement view which articulations are available (because I keep forgetting otherwise ) and which are playing at any given time. And never have to worry about chasing or remembering which keyswitch/program change/CC does what. I often set my libraries up like this even when there are keyswitched multis available.


----------



## scarred bunny

Cat said:


> True, but what if you want to edit multiple parts at once (I do this a lot, myself) like all the Strings sections or even all the Strings section plus some Brass? You already have 5 or more Score instruments and _each_ will have to have many tracks (one track per articulation). So you will end up with an midi editor containing many dozens of tracks. Wouldn't it get just way too cluttered?



Well, clutter is the obvious drawback, isn't it?  It's usually not so bad though, I find. When I decided to try it I thought it would be a lot worse than it turned out to be, and it certainly doesn't suit everyone. Most of the time there's only a handful of articulations active at any given point, so I find I usually don't need to have that many items open at the same time anyway. I'll often just use a single articulation (like a generic sustain or whatever is appropriate) when writing or recording to get the notes in, and then I'll focus on editing CCs curves and articulations in detail on a per-instrument basis instead without needing to have _everything_ open in the key editor. 

I set up some logical editor presets to help moving stuff between midi items (basically: cut -> select next part -> paste in place) in the key editor. Sometimes I'll just chop regions up and move them across tracks in the arrangement view instead, and then select all, go back to the key editor and do more CC massage if necessary. I hop between the two views a lot anyway. 

But sure, there comes a point where the track count becomes too ridiculous, even with folders, visibility agents and macros. And obviously my own bias is I don't mind doing a lot of manual editing - if you prefer to record things live, including articulation changes, keyswitches or EM:s is probably a better way to go. I suspect multiple tracks wouldn't work so well if you use the score editor (wouldn't know, I've never touched it). I thought I had found a pretty happy middle ground using one articulation per midi channel and expression maps to drive up to 16 of them from a single track. But... glitches. 

Anyway, I guess this is pretty off topic in a thread about Cubase 8.5. 



sekkosiki said:


> If I would have 15 separate tracks for V1 for example, is there any way to have one CC data effecting all the tracks? Or do I have to record 15 different CC's?



I suppose you could record enable multiple tracks or use the midi transformer effect to forward select CC:s to multiple channels (although probably not as many as fifteen). But you usually wouldn't want all fifteen playing at the same time anyway. I'd probably record them all individually via overdubs in the key editor, I think... or just draw it in manually.


----------



## Waywyn

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Sounds like a really intriguing alternative to VEP. How does a giant template with deactivated tracks impact the project file size and load times?



Well theoretically, loading times, if you deactivate those 5000 tracks and you load your template it should be there as fast quick as an empty one, except a few seconds for loading additional info etc. ... but it should almost use no CPu and no RAM since everything gets unloaded/deactivated! Hope that this is what you were asking about?


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig

Waywyn said:


> Well theoretically, loading times, if you deactivate those 5000 tracks and you load your template it should be there as fast quick as an empty one, except a few seconds for loading additional info etc. ... but it should almost use no CPu and no RAM since everything gets unloaded/deactivated! Hope that this is what you were asking about?



Yeah, that's what I'm wondering, because each and every Kontakt instrument I load will at least have to have it's internal parameters persisted some way. They might get unloaded from RAM, but at the very least they will be stored in the project file.
As a test I made a template with almost all of Berlin Perc spread across 20 disabled instrument tracks. The project file ended up around 72 mb, so I guess a 1000 track template would yield a giant project file. 

I imagine that there are sections of the project file that are not read until needed (when enabling tracks), so if loading times for giant projects really are snappy, that might be why.

It seems like this method really could solve a lot of the hassles I've had with VEP. I think I'll test it som more and see if the giant project files are worth it.


----------



## InLight-Tone

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Yeah, that's what I'm wondering, because each and every Kontakt instrument I load will at least have to have it's internal parameters persisted some way. They might get unloaded from RAM, but at the very least they will be stored in the project file.
> As a test I made a template with almost all of Berlin Perc spread across 20 disabled instrument tracks. The project file ended up around 72 mb, so I guess a 1000 track template would yield a giant project file.
> 
> I imagine that there are sections of the project file that are not read until needed (when enabling tracks), so if loading times for giant projects really are snappy, that might be why.
> 
> It seems like this method really could solve a lot of the hassles I've had with VEP. I think I'll test it som more and see if the giant project files are worth it.



As I said earlier, my template has over 1000 tracks. All of the samples are individual instances of Kontakt as instrument tracks close to a 1000 instances. Loading time is around 15 seconds or less with everything disabled. Save times are under 5 seconds with Cubase 8.5.


----------



## Rasmus Hartvig

InLight-Tone said:


> As I said earlier, my template has over 1000 tracks. All of the samples are individual instances of Kontakt as instrument tracks close to a 1000 instances. Loading time is around 15 seconds or less with everything disabled. Save times are under 5 seconds with Cubase 8.5.



That does indeed sound awesome! How big is a project file on disk?


----------



## vicontrolu

I made a quick test to see the impact on the cpr size. Looks like it doesnt change even if you disable tracks (using 8.0.10 here)






Looks like disabling tracks even adds the disabling info on the session


----------



## InLight-Tone

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> That does indeed sound awesome! How big is a project file on disk?


230 MB per project, and I usually average around 30 + tracks or so. I use keyswitches and expression maps instead of separate articulations. Note that Cubase still isn't recalling expression maps correctly with disabled tracks but I haven't tested out 8.5 yet.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Great response from Guillermo to that Steinberg thread asking for more consolidation with regards to bugs and workflow features:



> Hello all,
> 
> As some of you have mentioned Steinberg should follow up with a more detailed explanation and we are going to do that.
> 
> Since our last post we have had a meeting and created a task force to tackle the above mentioned issues, in this case it will be overseen by our marketing director. We are currently working on a plan, in an unprecedented action, as soon as we have it ready we are going to share it with you and list the steps that are about to follow. At some point we will also request your feedback, we consider this a step forward to improve our communication with our followers, customers and the community.
> 
> Once more we thank you all for choosing Steinberg!
> 
> Best regards,
> GN



Thanks Guillermo!

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=226&t=88895


----------



## Przemek K.

This sounds quite promising. Maybe I should upgrade to 8.5 then.


----------



## Jetzer

jonathanwright said:


> I really wish there was a way to hide the containing folders when showing _Tracks with Data_.
> 
> When I use the key command to show tracks with data, it works as it should but it also shows the containing folder of each of those tracks.
> 
> As a result half of my visible track count taken up by folders, rather than the just instruments themselves.
> 
> Of course I can move the tracks out of the folders to the top of my project but it would be nice to be able to hide them.



This would be a great feature!


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## samphony

Guy Rowland said:


> Great response from Guillermo to that Steinberg thread asking for more consolidation with regards to bugs and workflow features:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Guillermo!
> 
> http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=226&t=88895



This sounds like a nice change in communication! Very good move!


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## alanb

tokatila said:


> I'm finding that 8.5 feels more buggy than 8.0.30.
> 
> -Sometimes if it's unused for a couple of hours, the whole thing just gets stuck. Just stuck.



This happens to me in v8.0.30.

More specifically, Cubase can sit indefinitely without issue if there is no project loaded.

If I leave Cubase unattended for a few hours with a project loaded, it will sometimes freeze up.


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## RCsound

I found,quite surprised, that Cubase 8.5 disable/enable track do not crash any more, and is more stable that 8.30-8.20. (maybe this was something related to my system and not generic).




Guy Rowland said:


> Great response from Guillermo to that Steinberg thread asking for more consolidation with regards to bugs and workflow features:



Great news.


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## Jetzer

Is it me or is the key command for 'open folder' gone?


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## Jetzer

Anyone else had a noise burst issue when enabling a track?
Happened twice now (this week), both when I enable my legato HS samples.

So far, happy with C8.5. Although I ran into a couple of crashes & the above issue. Also, sometimes it seems strangely laggy, almost like it has something to do with my videocard.

Edit: apparently, the vst performance meter goals all in to the red when loading a big instrument (average load & real-time peak). Maybe this has something to do with the noise when I enable all my legato's at once (the heaviest samples).


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## Rex282

I'm STILL waiting for confirmation to update....


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## Rex282

Finally got my "free" 8.5 update.....wow!! and I thought Logic was wack.......you get what you pay for.


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## IFM

I'm loving 8.5 and it runs great on OSX now.


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## PeterKorcek

How does it run for anybody on Windows 8.1?


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## WorshipMaestro

PeterKorcek said:


> How does it run for anybody on Windows 8.1?


Really well. Better than on OSX, actually.


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## DynamicK

I see that there is a new update to VE Pro released on the 3 Feb:

*VE PRO 5.4.14074
• Improved: Mixdown performance with Cubase Asio Guard 2*

Anyone seeing any improvements?


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## IFM

DynamicK said:


> I see that there is a new update to VE Pro released on the 3 Feb:
> 
> *VE PRO 5.4.14074
> • Improved: Mixdown performance with Cubase Asio Guard 2*
> 
> Anyone seeing any improvements?



I hadn't received an alert on this...thanks for the heads up!


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## Guy Rowland

Interesting, but the main issue I've always had is nothing to do with mixdown, it's the real time switching from track to track which punches ugly holes in the output.


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## Rob Elliott

Guy Rowland said:


> Interesting, but the main issue I've always had is nothing to do with mixdown, it's the real time switching from track to track which punches ugly holes in the output.


This too has been my experience - unticking asio guard 2 eliminates the issue and it runs smoothly. Be nice to have asio guard but with 60+ VEP's and scrolling thru 'parts' - made me nuts!!!! Hopefully a solution on the way


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## gurucomposer

Cubase 8.5 is such a mess. It is terribly programmed. Why don't these audio companies do their jobs and make software that works? I just reinstalled my OS (OSX) to make sure it would work! and guess what. It still crashes! It sitll has crazy cpu spikes when it is sitting idle! The audio is super clicky and glitchy!

My system is top of the line: 6 cores, 64 gigs of RAM, everything on SSDs!!! Cubase still sucks and crashes and goes (not responding) so I have to force quit. Why Cubase, why do you suck! Please be better!!!!

I've been trying to work on 1 project for the past 3 days, and guess what, I can't because Cubase is so bad! aaarggh!!

Oh great, now I'm reloading the project, and guess what... It's been sitting on loading this one mixing channel for like 15 minutes!!! wtf.


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## Whatisvalis

That sounds like driver / plugin issues rather than Cubase. Have you tried loading the project with an empty plugin folder?


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## Waywyn

gurucomposer said:


> Cubase 8.5 is such a mess. It is terribly programmed. Why don't these audio companies do their jobs and make software that works? I just reinstalled my OS (OSX) to make sure it would work! and guess what. It still crashes! It sitll has crazy cpu spikes when it is sitting idle! The audio is super clicky and glitchy!
> 
> My system is top of the line: 6 cores, 64 gigs of RAM, everything on SSDs!!! Cubase still sucks and crashes and goes (not responding) so I have to force quit. Why Cubase, why do you suck! Please be better!!!!
> 
> I've been trying to work on 1 project for the past 3 days, and guess what, I can't because Cubase is so bad! aaarggh!!
> 
> Oh great, now I'm reloading the project, and guess what... It's been sitting on loading this one mixing channel for like 15 minutes!!! wtf. Steinberg needs to quit making software.



I think you should check your machine, plugins, possible scanning software riunning in the background (such as spyware OR online backup stuff), soundcard updates, problems with current OS 10.2.5.43.32.2.45654,45 or other stuff, because Cubase runs rock solid! Also deactivating ASIO guard works pretty well but I hear people get other results on OSX than on Windows. I got mine deactivated and everything runs smooth as hell! (Win here)

Also I think people should stop throwing out hasty comments such as Steinberg should stop making software. Not really pro to blame an entire company for the issues going on on your machine!


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## IFM

I've had the hung loading and it usually is a plugin. For the most part Cubase has run quite well here on a MP5,1 12 core with the last gen CPU's (upgraded) with 64gb ram and all SSDs. I use ASIO guard BTW. 
Chris


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## gurucomposer

Thanks for the suggestions, and sorry for the angst! It can get frustrating. I don't have any spyware or any backup or scanning stuff going on in the background that I know of. I will try disabling ASIO guard if problem returns. The problem only happens sometimes and is rather unpredictable. It happens when I have hundereds of VSTs and plugins going, which my system should handle easily.


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## IFM

Well if you are running more than 50-75 Kontact instruments C8 will spike and max out. It's not knowing this is a Cubase or NI issue


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## gurucomposer

Hmm... seems like I should be able to run those just fine. The thing is, if you want to use the disable track feature, then you can't use multi-timbral instruments.


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## Jetzer

When I edit multiple midi tracks I like to assign different colors to sections (for example blue to V1 and green to V2, yellow to cellos) so I can easily see the parts. But every time I select a track the other colors fade, which makes them harder to distinct. A feature I understand, so it's easy to see which part you've selected, but sometimes I'd like to have the full colour palette on all the time. I think I saw someone have this on a YT video. Couldn't figure it out though. Any suggestions?


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## Jetzer

^^anyone?


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## stigc56

JH said:


> When I edit multiple midi tracks I like to assign different colors to sections (for example blue to V1 and green to V2, yellow to cellos) so I can easily see the parts. But every time I select a track the other colors fade, which makes them harder to distinct. A feature I understand, so it's easy to see which part you've selected, but sometimes I'd like to have the full colour palette on all the time. I think I saw someone have this on a YT video. Couldn't figure it out though. Any suggestions?


You can select in the editor how Cubase shall colourize the midi-events. There is a little colour-palette to the right.


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