# Why dialogue is getting harder to hear/understand in films



## MusiquedeReve (Dec 3, 2021)

I have noticed this as well and consistently use captions when watching movies









Here's Why Movie Dialogue Has Gotten More Difficult To Understand (And Three Ways To Fix It) - /Film


/Film spoke with several Oscar-winning sound designers, editors, and mixers to learn why it has become tougher to understand what characters are saying.




www.slashfilm.com


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## Greeno (Dec 3, 2021)

oh my, I'm glad this has been noticed, there is so much mumbling going on in films and series and the volume is much lower than the music and fx. It is really annoying!! Can't they simply limit the dialogue a bit more and have it turned up a bit more so there isn't such a huge difference between it and the music/fx. Also ask these actors to stop mumbling whole lines.


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 3, 2021)

Greeno said:


> oh my, I'm glad this has been noticed, there is so much mumbling going on in films and series and the volume is much lower than the music and fx. It is really annoying!! Can't they simply limit the dialogue a bit more and have it turned up a bit more so there isn't such a huge difference between it and the music/fx. Also ask these actors to stop mumbling whole lines.


100%

Using captions has saved my remote from the constant abuse of rewind/play/rewind/play as I struggle to understand the dialogue


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## Robo Rivard (Dec 3, 2021)

It used to drive me crazy. Now, I only watch TV with good headphones and I set the sound to stereo instead of 5.1.


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## nolotrippen (Dec 3, 2021)

MorphineNoir said:


> I have noticed this as well and consistently use captions when watching movies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This isn't a new occurrence. I remember seeing Alien in the theater and was astonished at how much of the dialog was mumbled. Not hidden under music or sound effects, but mumbled.


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## Nate Johnson (Dec 3, 2021)

nolotrippen said:


> This isn't a new occurrence. I remember seeing Alien in the theater and was astonished at how much of the dialog was mumbled. Not hidden under music or sound effects, but mumbled.


....wasn't the mumbling in that opening scene intentional? I thought I remember reading that Ridley was experimenting with that scene as being pure ambient banter amongst the crew; in a realistic way, where what was being said wasn't important, just setting the audience up for this being 'normal' work life in this time period or whatever. Either way, it didn't 'land well' with me either! oh and color me jealous you got to see that in the theater - must have been even more terrifying back then!


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## GNP (Dec 3, 2021)

Greeno said:


> oh my, I'm glad this has been noticed, there is so much mumbling going on in films and series and the volume is much lower than the music and fx. It is really annoying!! Can't they simply limit the dialogue a bit more and have it turned up a bit more so there isn't such a huge difference between it and the music/fx. Also ask these actors to stop mumbling whole lines.


Agree with everything, although actors "mumble" to bring more realism to their performance. You wouldn't want nuance to be ADRed like as if the actors were doing a theater performance. But this is where limiting on the dialog can come in very handy, like you said!


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## GNP (Dec 3, 2021)

MorphineNoir said:


> 100%
> 
> Using captions has saved my remote from the constant abuse of rewind/play/rewind/play as I struggle to understand the dialogue


Exactly, this is why I still insist on English captions even when the movie is in English!

The factory broadcasters in my country are a bunch of idiots, they only provide alternate language subtitles, because they automatically assume that native viewers of that program's language can hear what the actors are saying clearly, but obviously that's not the case. They should just provide the alternate language AND the original language in subtitles!


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## Gerbil (Dec 3, 2021)

Nate Johnson said:


> ....wasn't the mumbling in that opening scene intentional? I thought I remember reading that Ridley was experimenting with that scene as being pure ambient banter amongst the crew; in a realistic way, where what was being said wasn't important, just setting the audience up for this being 'normal' work life in this time period or whatever. Either way, it didn't 'land well' with me either! oh and color me jealous you got to see that in the theater - must have been even more terrifying back then!


I've seen it several times on the big screen over the years. It's a must if you're a fan. Incredible movie in so many ways and a fantastic score.


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## nolotrippen (Dec 3, 2021)

Nate Johnson said:


> ....wasn't the mumbling in that opening scene intentional? I thought I remember reading that Ridley was experimenting with that scene as being pure ambient banter amongst the crew; in a realistic way, where what was being said wasn't important, just setting the audience up for this being 'normal' work life in this time period or whatever. Either way, it didn't 'land well' with me either! oh and color me jealous you got to see that in the theater - must have been even more terrifying back then!


Actually I saw it in Hollywood and the people in line were far more disturbing than the movie.


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## rrichard63 (Dec 3, 2021)

MorphineNoir said:


> I have noticed this as well and consistently use captions when watching movies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The article is really well done. A couple of other factors are not mentioned because they go further back in time than ten years. Decades ago, more scenes were filmed on sets rather than location than is true today, so there was much more control over acoustics, as well as more control over microphone placement. And, although I'm not sure about this, I think dialog was sometimes recorded after the fact and lip-synced to the film. I suspect that this would never, ever be done today.

Here are a couple of related threads:






Dialogue intelligibility vs. music in today’s movies


I just finished watching “Interstellar” again in my home theatre, which is a pretty good quality (Denon amp, Definitive Technology speakers) surround sound system, albeit with a phantom center channel (because I don’t have a place where a physical center channel speaker could have been set up)...




vi-control.net










What is with the huge dynamic range in TV shows nowadays?


Just watched the new episode of Walking Dead and spent the whole episode constantly turning the TV volume up and down to compensate for the ultra quiet, followed by ultra loud, scenes. Seems to be common to many TV shows nowadays. Have post production engineers forgotten how to use a compressor?




vi-control.net


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## b_elliott (Dec 3, 2021)

I too rely on captions in order to understand most dialog. I rely on Youtube's closed captions to understand the various tutorials I listen to. 

Here is a notorious example of dialog over music. It is so bad, even with cc on it can't make out the dude's words -- no help. No intention to slam this producer, but it did nothing but make me say "WTF..." 

I noticed in videos like VideoHomeRecording, the guy makes a point not to talk at all during any music playback. That's one approach. 

Another approach is how producer Jason Bently Metropolis KCRW talks clearly over loud music -- I think it's called sidechain compression. (If you listen to 1st minute you clearly hear him despite the house music playing on.)

I realized these aren't movies and could well be comparing apples to oranges. My point: it is still audio.


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## Dirtgrain (Dec 3, 2021)

I downloaded an EQ app for Google Chrome to address this on my computer.


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## davidnaroth (Dec 3, 2021)

MorphineNoir said:


> I have noticed this as well and consistently use captions when watching movies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Phew, I thought I was losing my hearing and getting old lol.


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## curtisschweitzer (Dec 3, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> ...I think dialog was sometimes recorded after the fact and lip-synced to the film. I suspect that this would never, ever be done today...


I'm quite sure there is still a great deal of ADR done on most films, absent perhaps those directors who actively discourage it from a philosophical standpoint. You can actually catch it when it is done even slightly imperfectly-- I personally feel like I notice this in Marvel movies in particular (not a slam on them-- in fact, I'd rather the ADR be 90% there and actually understand the line in those circumstances).


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## rrichard63 (Dec 3, 2021)

curtisschweitzer said:


> absent perhaps those directors who actively discourage it ...


The OP's article confirms that there are a lot more of those directors than there used to be. I was not aware that this is still done at all. Thanks for correcting me.

For those who -- like me -- have always been too lazy to look up the acronym ADR, this article is informative:

https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/what-is-adr-in-film/


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## KEM (Dec 3, 2021)

Anytime I have troubles hearing dialogue it’s because of the way an actor is speaking, whether that be an accent or enunciation, but I’ve never really had an issue hearing dialogue due to music or sound effects, and whenever I do it’s usually an intentional effect on the directors part, and with subsequent viewings I’m usually able to figure out what’s being said

I really don’t think dialogue is any worse than it used to be, in fact I think it’s better because they’re able to get better quality recordings now and they can mix them more effectively, older movies are a lot harder to understand than modern films in my opinion


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## ReelToLogic (Dec 3, 2021)

I recently tried to watch a Netflix movie and was riding the volume like crazy to be able to hear the dialogue while keeping the "action" sections from blowing my ears out. I finally had to stop the movie because it was really bothering my tinnitus. So I purchased a $69 limiter off Amazon (see link below) and put it between my TV and my amp/speaker system and it made a huge difference. I finally finished watching the movie a week after I started and never touched the volume. I think that some sound bars come with this type of capability but I think that all TV's should include a "compressor/limiter" mode as this problem seems quite common.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GK7PAI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## timprebble (Dec 3, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> The article is really well done. A couple of other factors are not mentioned because they go further back in time than ten years. Decades ago, more scenes were filmed on sets rather than location than is true today, so there was much more control over acoustics, as well as more control over microphone placement. And, although I'm not sure about this, I think dialog was sometimes recorded after the fact and lip-synced to the film. I suspect that this would never, ever be done today.
> 
> Here are a couple of related threads:
> 
> ...



I think a major factor is that this DX intelligibility issue is primarily caused by a certain type of film, specifically VFX driven action films. If you have a monster or transforminator or whatever throwing cars, firing weapons & causing massive destruction while an orchestra is also driving the action, AND while the actor performed to greenscreen with none of those things in situ, then its not surprising that intelligibility is going to be a huge challenge. 

Also a shooting stage is far from quiet - lighting buzz, wind machines etc... So the dialogue editors are given the thankless task of trying to save underperformed dialogue that is full of lighting buzz and wind machines, or re-record all lines as ADR which some directors do not want to do and some actors are not good at, especially 6-12 months after the shoot when they are on another project. I know dialogue editors who are forensic Izotope RX users because they have no choice but to be. Even with ADR, if a director hears the best ADR take in place & doesn't like it, they will revert to production sound with the assumption it can be made to work. When it is combined with a powerful score and onscreen action in the ideal situation of a dub stage, it may seem feasible... but remastered for Netflix or whoever and played back in far from ideal/random/uncalibrated monitoring situations and 'questionable intelligibility' can become incoherent.


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## SyMTiK (Dec 3, 2021)

In a theater I have never had an issue but that's mainly due to the sound system being cranked so loud you would think it is trying to kill you when the action sequences kick in

I find part of the reason is due to excessive dynamic range present in a lot of modern films. I find that my meters on my Apollo when there is dialogue barely hit -18, then when any action happens the meters are glowing red. While you certainly want to preserve the impact of the big moments, I find that a majority of a film is mixed too low nowadays and there should be a bit less overall dynamic range so the loud moments aren't completely blowing the roof off. However, I also think this is something that is easily controllable on the user end, at least for home viewing. I know that Netflix now has a setting to control dynamic range. Even better would be alternate mixes, say a LDR (low dynamic range) and FDR (full dynamic range) mix. When I am viewing at home I prefer not to bother my neighbors and roommates to much, so noise is a concern. In a theater I don't mind as much


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## LamaRose (Dec 3, 2021)

Too much music/too much loud music for my tastes... let the scene breathe a little FFS. Also, mixed for surround sounds like shit in stereo. IQs headed down/dBs to the moon.


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## KEM (Dec 3, 2021)

What if, and just hear me out for a second, the dialogue is still the same and it’s just your ears getting worse with old age…


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 3, 2021)

KEM said:


> What if, and just hear me out for a second, the dialogue is still the same and it’s just your ears getting worse with old age…


OK Zoomer


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## CT (Dec 3, 2021)

I have absolutely nothing to support this, but I wonder if relying on captions just ends up making you even less attentive to dialogue, exacerbating the issue.


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## KEM (Dec 3, 2021)

MorphineNoir said:


> OK Zoomer



Proud Gen Z kid here!!


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## rnb_2 (Dec 3, 2021)

While the article contained a lot of information, after reading it, I didn't feel any better about the situation, since the conclusion seemed to be "it's at least 10 different things, and we'll have to fix most of them, or it won't make a difference". Full credit to the writer for not treating it as a "this one weird trick will fix everything" situation, but it didn't give me much hope that things are going to change. I was surprised at how secondary (or worse) capturing good sound seems to have become on a lot of productions.


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## bat (Dec 9, 2021)

KEM said:


> What if, and just hear me out for a second, the dialogue is still the same and it’s just your ears getting worse with old age…


My ears are old. And I have tinnitus. And my hearing drops at 1200 Hz. Fortunately I have a set of expensive hearing aids carefully calibrated to fill in only the necessary higher frequencies, so I can confidently assert that all the complaints about movie audio (e.g.'s jockeying the volume level, needing captions to understand dialogue, dreadfully compressed sound, etc...) are 100% valid. Too often I need to listen to the score separately with headphones to appreciate it.

As far as solutions go, I thought the writer made it clear that a lot of directors either don't care about quality audio, or give poor audio direction with unreal expectations, so we shouldn't expect any improvements until more directors care and/or learn their craft better.


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## Francis Bourre (Dec 9, 2021)

bat said:


> I have a set of expensive hearing aids


May I ask what do you use? And do you use it for doing/mixing music too?
Sorry in advance for the OT, but I feel my ears are getting old too, and i very concerned by this upcoming topic.


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## bat (Dec 9, 2021)

Widex makes my hearing aids, I forget the exact model but I highly recommend the brand and I don't do _any_ audio work without them.
Everybody's hearing declines, just like our sight and everything else, some more so than others. My hearing got pretty beat up during loud band rehearsals in small rooms back in the day.
Find a hearing specialist and get checked out, regaining the high end frequencies is like taking a blanket off the speakers.


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## Nils Neumann (Dec 9, 2021)

bat said:


> Widex makes my hearing aids, I forget the exact model but I highly recommend the brand and I don't do _any_ audio work without them.
> Everybody's hearing declines, just like our sight and everything else, some more so than others. My hearing got pretty beat up during loud band rehearsals in small rooms back in the day.
> Find a hearing specialist and get checked out, regaining the high end frequencies is like taking a blanket off the speakers.


 I always thought they would only help to understand spoken word and not in a sonically pleasing way. It’s awesome to hear that it helps with precise audio work as well.


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## bat (Dec 9, 2021)

Francis Bourre said:


> May I ask what do you use? And do you use it for doing/mixing music too?


Here it is https://www.widex.com/en/hearing-aids/evoke/
I don't need them in my day-to-day, I can hear what people say and what's going on around me, but I won't work on audio without them. 
They'll connect to your smart phone via bluetooth, and you can fine tune them for different settings using an app. Take extra time with a good hearing specialist to discern exactly what frequencies need to be filled in so you get everything balanced out. All the amazing audio tech advances over the decades are available in hearing aids as well, having full confidence in your hearing is, well, everything


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## bat (Dec 9, 2021)

Nils Neumann said:


> I always thought they would only help to understand spoken word and not in a sonically pleasing way. It’s awesome to hear that it helps with precise audio work as well.


All the advances in audio tech over the decades apply to hearing aids as well. It's not about turning all the volume up, it's about filling in the frequencies, and you can tune them from your smart phone


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## SergeD (Dec 9, 2021)

Same problem with some characters in french series where you can't understand your own native language.

I also remember trying to figure out what Mulder was saying in the X-Files English version, it remained an unsolved mystery till today, thanks to MorphineNoir


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## Captain Oveur (Dec 9, 2021)

bat said:


> As far as solutions go, I thought the writer made it clear that a lot of directors either don't care about quality audio, or give poor audio direction with unreal expectations, so we shouldn't expect any improvements until more directors care and/or learn their craft better.


I've heard a few stories that some directors care quite a lot about sound - just not in a good way. Some will specifically demand that the audio be raised to physically hurt the audience, because that's the emotional mark they want to hit. At first I didn't believe it, but other stories of Hollywood egos have taught me nothing is out of bounds for some of them.

Another piece of the puzzle that is mentioned but not specified is the tangled web of influence in distribution. IMAX has contractually obligated audio specifications to use their name and tech, usually resulting in a heavy low frequency boost.

Crossing my fingers that this new loudness war ends sooner than later.


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## bat (Dec 9, 2021)

Captain Oveur said:


> I've heard a few stories that some directors care quite a lot about sound - just not in a good way.


we agree, that's what I meant by "or give poor audio direction with unreal expectations"


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## GigStage (Dec 10, 2021)

I think the reason is that actors/directors think that it's cool to speak in low voice...
Nah...


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