# First composition with Dorico & Noteperformer



## Assa (Dec 30, 2018)

Hi folks 

I wanted to share with you my first composition using Dorico + Noteperformer. Initially I just wanted to learn the program by sketching out a little idea I had, but that lead me to another one, and somehow I ended up combining three little themes into a short orchestral suite 

Dorico is actually the first notation program I have ever worked with, so coming from more of a "midi-background" I might still be a little bit unfamiliar with all the notation details etc.

As I wanted to write the piece as if it could be performed by live players, I'd be super grateful for any insights/tips regarding the orchestration that some of the more experienced people could give me  I was really unsure about a lot of decisions I made.

This is the Noteperformer export:

http://amadeus-pakmur.com/NONTENDI Suite_02.mp3

and here is the score:

http://amadeus-pakmur.com/Nontendi_suite_c.pdf

http://amadeus-pakmur.com/Nontendi_suite_transposed.pdf

I really have to say that I enjoyed working with a notation program and noteperformer. Although it might not sound as good as a fully programmed mockup, and there are also some things that noteperformer doesn't perform as it should, I think the overall result is quite decent (especially when I consider the amount of work that it needs to produce a mockup in cubase). So in general I think it is a great tool to give you a first impression and I think this will be my preferred way of working in the future.


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## jonathanparham (Dec 30, 2018)

Enjoyed hearing your ideas


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## Saxer (Dec 31, 2018)

Beautiful track! Worth getting a full blown mockup or even better a live performance with the real thing!


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## damcry (Dec 31, 2018)

Very nice mockup


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## Assa (Dec 31, 2018)

Thank you all for your kind words 



Saxer said:


> Beautiful track! Worth getting a full blown mockup or even better a live performance with the real thing!



Yes, I'll do a proper mockup when I have the time - but I'd definitely be more interested to hear if a real recording would turn out as I intended!

Maybe there will be an opportunity in 2019, this would be a dream coming true. 

Happy new year to everybody!


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## FreddieM007 (Jul 27, 2019)

Nice composition and well written score!
I use Dorico+NotePerformer as well since recently and I continue to be impressed by both programs.


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## Assa (Aug 3, 2019)

FreddieM007 said:


> Nice composition and well written score!
> I use Dorico+NotePerformer as well since recently and I continue to be impressed by both programs.



Thanks Freddie! I actually ended up recording this piece live - which was my first experience with a live orchestra. For those who are interested, here is the result (which is not mixed yet):

http://amadeus-pakmur.com/Nontendi_cut 2.wav


It was recorded in ~15 min, so this was not really enough time to get a performance I was reallly satisfied with (I had to edit a LOT), but as a learning experience, this was extremely valuable - and ultimately this is what I was aiming for in this case  Going through this process and making all kinds of stupid mistakes is probably the only way to really learn it, and my next recording session already went a lot better because of what I heave learned from this.


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## Gerald (Aug 3, 2019)

Nice work and composition!


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## JF (Aug 10, 2019)

Assa said:


> Thanks Freddie! I actually ended up recording this piece live - which was my first experience with a live orchestra. For those who are interested, here is the result (which is not mixed yet):
> 
> http://amadeus-pakmur.com/Nontendi_cut 2.wav
> 
> ...


May I ask who you recorded with? Great job on the composition!


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## Assa (Aug 10, 2019)

JF said:


> May I ask who you recorded with? Great job on the composition!



Thanks!  Sure, I booked the recording session via a company named Musiversal.









Record your songs in real time with professional session musicians | Musiversal


Record your songs in real time with world-class session musicians, vocalists, producers and audio engineers




www.musiversal.com


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## Gil (Aug 12, 2019)

Hello!
Congratulations for your great track and for sharing the scores!
I would like to know if you booked the Epic Symphony Orchestra 54-piece orchestra for your recording, and if the ratio "2 mns of recorded music for 14 minutes session" is ok?
One last question: what kind of files are sent back to you by Musiversal? 1 Stereo wav, Pro Tools session, other…?
Thanks for your answers!
Regards,
Gil.


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## Will Blackburn (Aug 12, 2019)

Excellent piece. Were you a Cubase user previously? I'm wondering how comfortable Dorico feels coming from a Cubase background, particularly when like you, i have little experence with notation software. I have felt for some time though that this might be the workflow route to go down for sketching.


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## Assa (Aug 14, 2019)

Gil said:


> I would like to know if you booked the Epic Symphony Orchestra 54-piece orchestra for your recording, and if the ratio "2 mns of recorded music for 14 minutes session" is ok?
> One last question: what kind of files are sent back to you by Musiversal? 1 Stereo wav, Pro Tools session, other…?



Hey Gil, 

yes, this is what I booked, but actually it was not recorded that way. Because my recording date got postponed they offered me to record brass+winds with their lisbon orchestra and do the strings seperately with prague players to compensate for the inconvenience. Actually I would have preferred to have the piece recorded as a whole, but since this would give me double the time I could spend with live players to learn, I decided to just agree and to see what happens. (also it was interesting to experience the differences between the two recording locations)

As for their guideline with the 2mns in 14 mns session time, it might workout fine for slower pieces without tempo changes, but this piece would have really needed at least 10+ more minutes session time. It was quite an uncomfortable feeling, being in a situation where you need to rush through things you realize that it would clearly take more time to get the results you were aiming for. Generally I would say, it is wise to plan with a little bit more time than what they suggest on their website.

They send you back all the material including pro tools session files, wav files from all the different mics etc. - so quite a lot of stuff.



Will Blackburn said:


> Excellent piece. Were you a Cubase user previously? I'm wondering how comfortable Dorico feels coming from a Cubase background, particularly when like you, i have little experence with notation software. I have felt for some time though that this might be the workflow route to go down for sketching.



Thanks Will!

Yes, I was (and still am) a Cubase user. To me dorico feels really convenient and intuitive. This is maybe also an advantage of not being used to another notation software. I personally have to say that after getting used to dorico (which happened very fast) I can not imagine anymore composing straight into cubase - unless it is some ambient underscore-ish kind of thing or I have another good reason to do so. Having the visual representation of the music while composing is something I really miss when I compose inside a DAW. But it is of course still a great tool for experimenting / trying out ideas and produce the mockups


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## Ben (Aug 14, 2019)

Hi @Assa, thanks for sharing this experience. And congratulations on this beautiful piece.
Can't wait to hear the finished mix


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## dcoscina (Aug 14, 2019)

Nice job! NP with Dorico sounds quite good. This is an excellent combi which would give any conductor of any orchestra a good idea of the piece.


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## Virtual Virgin (Aug 14, 2019)

Thumbs up!
Nice work.


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## ltmusic (Aug 14, 2019)

Very nice ! ! Congrats ! !
Did you record in Cubase the instruments by playing live or by inserting the notes with the mouse ?

Thanks!


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## Assa (Aug 14, 2019)

Thanks guys for all the kind words! 



ltmusic said:


> Did you record in Cubase the instruments by playing live or by inserting the notes with the mouse ?
> 
> Thanks!



I'm not quite sure what your asking excactly, because none of the examples I shared were done with cubase (one is noteperformer inside dorico, the other version is live). If your question is how I tend to do it in general when I use cubase, it depends on the library. Some are very playable but if not I might as well draw in some notes with the mouse - whatever works best


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## ltmusic (Aug 14, 2019)

Sorry my bad! I wanted to say Dorico and not cubase. 
So..
Can you do live recording inside Dorico or you have to enter the notes with the mouse ?


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## Ben (Aug 14, 2019)

ltmusic said:


> Can you do live recording inside Dorico


Yes, they added this feature in one of the last updates, but no idea how good it works. The video looks great. I think I am still faster by manual note input.


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## Assa (Aug 16, 2019)

ltmusic said:


> Sorry my bad! I wanted to say Dorico and not cubase.
> So..
> Can you do live recording inside Dorico or you have to enter the notes with the mouse ?



Yes it is possible, but just as Ben I never use it...keyboard+numpad works best for me


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## Loïc D (Aug 16, 2019)

Love it, love it, love it !
Congrats !


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## ZentralmassivSound (Dec 13, 2019)

Nice composition. From that Noteperformer export you can already hear that, once fully produced, it will sound very nice!


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## dcoscina (Dec 13, 2019)

Important to point out that real-time recoding using NotePerformer is not possible because of how the plugin works. There’s always a delay because of the algorithms it uses during playback of a score, however other VIs would be fine methinks


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## JJHLH (Dec 13, 2019)

Beautiful composition. Seeing what you accomplished and what you recommend makes me want to purchase Dorico and Noteperformer. It does seem like an excellent combination to help learn how to orchestrate.


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## RogiervG (Jun 29, 2020)

Maybe it's me, but i prefer the noteperformers version above the live recorded one. It's more defined, more balanced and sounds like an orchestra recorded live in a concerthall. (the live one sounds like it's recorded in separate sessions in a big studio room (teldex alike, yet unlearly mixed))

Sure, the string legato's in the live version has that sparkly transition you don't get with noteperformer very well. However, i guess with some extra reverb/convolutions normal people won't know it's fake at all. And professionals, won't neither when watching a movie scene where this is played (especially if the credits say "music: blabalbal orchestra" you will think it's a real orchestra, i bet you will).
Only listening directly (solely), you hear there are some things not "right"... but still it makes you doubt in places.. is this a sample/emulation WITH live mixed together, which is which... or are my ears playing tricks?

And as for competitional soundsets: 
Sure staffpad's premium libraries are even better defined in sound.. but still.. noteperformer has that glare/touch of old school concert hall space recording, where staffpad doesn't. Staffpads premium libs it's more a hollywoodi-sh modern recording hall sound. (both beautifull though, yet totally different)


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## Rob (Jun 29, 2020)

I always rest surprised at how well Noteperformer behaves... nice playful piece. As a side note, time signature should be placed on first bar, even when there's a pickup measure... unless it's a different time. And the eight note rest is unnecessary.


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## Assa (Jun 30, 2020)

RogiervG said:


> Maybe it's me, but i prefer the noteperformers version above the live recorded one. It's more defined, more balanced and sounds like an orchestra recorded live in a concerthall. (the live one sounds like it's recorded in separate sessions in a big studio room (teldex alike, yet unlearly mixed))
> 
> Sure, the string legato's in the live version has that sparkly transition you don't get with noteperformer very well. However, i guess with some extra reverb/convolutions normal people won't know it's fake at all. And professionals, won't neither when watching a movie scene where this is played (especially if the credits say "music: blabalbal orchestra" you will think it's a real orchestra, i bet you will).
> Only listening directly (solely), you hear there are some things not "right"... but still it makes you doubt in places.. is this a sample/emulation WITH live mixed together, which is which... or are my ears playing tricks?
> ...




Hey! I just listened back to the old and umixed version I posted here, I was quite shocked about the sound quality as well :D I'm sure there are a lot of mics muted, I remember not knowing what to do excactly with all of those different files I got. There is a much more polished version, you can listen to it and compare if you are interested:



http://amadeus-pakmur.com/Nontendi%20Suitemix_3.wav



Noteperformer does a few things very well IMO and I think the last update to V3 was also a big improvement. Only thing that really bothers me is the simulation of softer string parts. The vibrato tends to be very strong by default, which seems really inappropriate sometimes.



Rob said:


> I always rest surprised at how well Noteperformer behaves... nice playful piece. As a side note, time signature should be placed on first bar, even when there's a pickup measure... unless it's a different time. And the eight note rest is unnecessary.




Thanks Rob! Yes, this were really my first steps with a notation program, I'd definitely notate it according to your suggestions these days. Thanks for pointing that out.


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