# Looking for a small quiet samples box: Xeon D-1541?



## pilgrim (Jan 15, 2018)

Hey all. I'm looking for a small and quiet extra box to host orchestra samples for VEPro at home, and thought I'd ask the experts. I have a small room, so I can't fit a big server machine or cope with the noise that comes from a rack.

I've seen that there are mini-ITX boards with the Xeon D-1541 (8 core) that can do up to 128gb of RAM. These folks have a build (http://www.cappuccinopc.com/mini-itx-server-pc/Latte-X1500-with-128GB-RAM-Memory-and-Xeon-CPU.asp) but there are others, or I could do it myself. At something like 8" x 8" x 3", this would be easy to stash in the cabinet where my router lives.

I know the processor isn't exactly top-of-the line, but if I'm mostly just using it to run Kontakt in VEPro to have a big template available, would it be enough to serve up that giant pool of RAM to my main machine, or will the CPU bottleneck? Also, I'm clueless: when you max out the RAM like that, is that likely to need special concern for sufficient wattage from the power supply, or for heat management? Or is that generally safe?

Anyone have advice on whether something like this is a good idea, or what you might suggest instead?

Thanks a ton!


----------



## Damarus (Jan 16, 2018)

That looks cool, haven't many small form factor Xeon builds. The concern on SFF cases is heat at higher loads.

Just adding 128gb to that configuration you are at almost $4K, which is a steep price to pay considering that processor wont be doing very much. At this price I personally I would build my own, but Mini-ITX boards have limited support for 128gb of RAm from what I've seen..

I'll let the VEPro - Pros chime in here because I'm not very versed in how it works. Does the processor matter as much or is it just about RAM?


----------



## Piano Pete (Jan 16, 2018)

In my experience--the smaller the form-factor you try to pack performance into, the higher price usually spikes up, so you may wish to consider that. If you have a rack, the smallest you could probably go on the cheap is to use a 1u-2u server chassis, but those things are ridiculously loud. A 4u fits most commercial CPU radiators. If you use a low profile radiator/cooling solution, you can get away with 3u. The cheapest solution is just getting a regular, small case. If you are concerned about noise, I am a fan--pun intended--of keeping the computers in a separate room; however, this does not work for everyone. There are some great fans on the market that have phenomenal cooling potential and low noise output. Noctua has a great lineup. 

Now back to my normally scheduled rant, if you are going to be utilizing 128gb worth of samples, you really should consider looking into dividing that amongst two computers with 64gb. As Damarus stated, 128gb in any computer causes the price to sky rocket. If you have a budget for that ram, you already have the budget for 2 slaves. Performance and price in mind, you are better off getting 2 cpus @ 64gb of ram each than a single one at 128 (this method lets you balance your intensive samples between the two cpus); additionally, you are better off going for good consumer chips than a low tier xeon that is meant for data storage-- you do not need ecc capability. The consumer chips, anything not xeon really, typically have higher performance per dollar than their equally priced xeon counterparts. Xeon will give more performance in the higher tiered offerings, but this is usually outside of the range of most peoples' budgets, and at that point you would still get great performance from an overclocked 8-10 core extreme edition cpu from Intel. (I am not sure how AMD is doing for audio. Last I checked, Intel was still better.) In most cases the 6-10 core performance edition cpus will even beat out a high end xeon. Heck, in most scenarios you can even get great mileage out of older/weaker cpus, but it all depends on your workload, budget, how you divi up your samples, and your capability at tinkering. There is a plethora of information on this subject all over this forum. I even believe someone posted some decent, cheap builds that work great for a small sample farm. I cannot remember if it is on this website or another, but I couldn't find anything wrong with the proposed builds at the time-- it may be worth a google.

To answer some of your questions: 

Would that CPU bottleneck? Possibly. If you are fully utilizing 128gb worth of samples, I would not be shocked if you ran into problems, and it would not be something that could be fixed by overclocking as xeons-- especially older chips-- do not really like being messed with. If you are just loading 128gb worth of samples and using at most, 40-64gb on a daily basis, you'll be fine, but that begs the question, why load 128gb of sounds if your standard template consists of at max 64gb of samples? In my experience, I know very few individuals outside the professional world who need 128gb+ of unique instruments at their finger tips, and this mostly comes down to the libraries that you use--mic positions will also eat this up. (Please note the last few comments have nothing to do with splitting the workload amongst two cpus.  this video has some great info.) Do not get me wrong, I am of the mindset that I would rather have something loaded and ready to go than have to hunt for it, but I do not have every ethnic sample loaded 24/7. A compromise is to have a modular template set up. Even with all of my slave computers, I still use this method. I have been toying with the possibility of spending money so that I never have to load another instrument mid project, but I cannot justify that expense for something that does not really detract from my workflow. Right now, I have empty pre-routed instrument paths in my DAW and VEP templates, so if I need to grab a tabla or erhu, I just load a premade VEP instance and connect it to my already routed DAW signal chain and I am back to work. This requires a lot of planning and foresight in setting up an efficient method, but I feel this is important for all of us to do regardless of one's resources. I am constantly updating it and tweaking it based on my needs, typically once every 8-12months.

Should you ever max out your ram? I know some that do, but I always like to leave a buffer zone. In my experience, it is always better to leave a buffer when dealing with electronics. 

Do you need to worry about power draw/heat? If the computer is built to the specs with your intended usage in mind, it should be fine regarding power. Always use a PSU calculator, and always ask for second opinions online. With the trend in electronics, components are becoming more efficient, so this is not as much of a problem as it once was. My advice: do not skimp on a decent PSU. I do not necessarily mean that you need to go overboard on the wattage, but leave yourself space to grow and invest in something with a nice efficiency rating; your wallet and parts will thank you down the road.

Heat? With any computer you have to battle heat. This is magnified in small form-factor builds.

Please keep in mind that I do not know all of the specifics of your situation.

I hope this helps.


----------



## pilgrim (Jan 16, 2018)

Thanks! That's all great advice.

Using two smaller machines is a good idea which I hadn't thought enough about.

I think 64gb would actually be fine given what I actually use all the time. I was thinking about the Xeon because I figured I could throw 2x32gb into it to start, and then have room to expand. But at that point, I guess I'm not really saving any money, because a second machine would probably be more bang for the buck at that point no matter how you cut it.

Thanks a ton for the reality check!


----------



## woodslanding (Jan 25, 2018)

I'd definitely consider building one of these yourself. The chip comes with the mobo, so all you need to do is add ram and an m.2 and mount it in the case. I used the same case for my build and it works great. The fan is not super quiet though--I upgraded to the little noctua, but it's still far from silent. My tdp is 65w, though, so you might be able to run quieter. Also this version of the case has a lot more ventilation. I might see if I can buy that model. Mine only has vents on the sides. That chip benchmarks about the same as mine, but it is much lower power.... and my mobo maxed out at 16 gb....


----------

