# What should composers know about writing for French Horn?



## I like music (Sep 24, 2020)

Inspired by @Lea1229 thread on the Trumpet, I am asking about the dos, don'ts, and other considerations people should have when writing for the french horn(s).

A while back I meant to spam VI Control by creating such a thread for each instrument, but chickened out. It is one thing to read orchestration books (which I am currently trying) but a whole other thing to ask composers on here, especially given that they often have great experience with virtual version of the instrument.

So, given all the excellent advice we've already benefitted from on the Trumpet thread, I'm wondering if we can add some collective knowledge on the Horn here.

PS I _once_ tried to get a sound out of a French Horn. Most awkward thing I've ever experienced.


----------



## PeterBaumann (Sep 24, 2020)

Good idea! This is more of a sheet music thing than for midi mockups, but horn parts are generally grouped with the first and third horns playing higher parts, and the second and fourth playing lower parts.


----------



## dcoscina (Sep 24, 2020)

Playing too high and too loud isn’t advisable for protracted sections. But that goes for all brass really....


----------



## I like music (Sep 24, 2020)

dcoscina said:


> Playing too high and too loud isn’t advisable for protracted sections. But that goes for all brass really....



I always have the feeling that sample libraries can create an unreasonable expectation in this, with people who are new to it all, or haven't worked with a real horn. For example, when I play up the keyboard, the 'power' and volumes tend to stay quite stable. However, when I look at YT videos of anyone who _isn't_ one of those big pro orchestras, I can hear the horn becoming a bit quieter, as if it is a real effort to get the projection.

What would be "too high" for most competent players (if we excluded top tier freaks)?


----------



## Bluemount Score (Sep 24, 2020)

I like music said:


> I always have the feeling that sample libraries can create an unreasonable expectation in this, with people who are new to it all, or haven't worked with a real horn.


Jupp, been there, done that.
Eventually replaced the horn part with trumpets, doubled by the horns one octave below. Sounded better anyways.


----------



## wst3 (Sep 24, 2020)

avoid extremes - too high and too loud were already covered, but live or sampled let the poor players breath.
good horn players can play fast, but they can't play fast all day long.
use the lowest register, not throughout, but it is there.
use all the colours - the horn can create a very broad spectrum of tones, use more than a couple.
use the entire range, nuff said.
don't be afraid to double - can't remember the piece, but in high school we played this piece where all four horns would play a counter melody in unison. Four horns in unison can sound pretty cool. I love horns playing harmony, but every once in a while...
in a lot of concert music the poor horns play a supporting role, don't be afraid to feature them.


----------



## GtrString (Sep 24, 2020)

Avoid writing Irish hymns.


----------



## Loïc D (Sep 24, 2020)

French horn is never too loud.

Until you start the trombone part. 


On a more serious side I enjoy horns the most when they play softly to sustain other instruments (strings, winds), a bit in high register. Don’t be shy to put them really soft in the background, they’ll bring a silky tone to the rest.


----------



## Gene Pool (Sep 24, 2020)

Tessitura = concert F3—C5

Just like with trumpets, notes above the tessitura are the toe-tap range, held in reserve for just the odd, brief excursion; get in and get out, but no loitering.

The most articulate and agile span of the horn's range = concert C4—C5.
A good range for neutral background pads = concert F3—G4
____________________

High range divisions:

1) concert C#5, D5 & Eb5 = occasional use (judicious scoring advised; Eb5 = advisable high limit);
2) concert E5 & F5 = uncommon use (proceed with caution; scoring experience recommended).

Above c-C5, the horn does not open up like trumpets do above their tessitura. Moreover, it's easy to crack notes up there (pitch slotting is increasingly difficult), so a marking of triple-forte will still probably get you a double-forte.
____________________

Low range divisions:

Below the tessitura, each semitone lower is incrementally darker, less articulate, and less characteristic of stereotypical horn sound. From one semitone to the next, the transition is barely noticeable, but it adds up more obviously over a span of notes. BTW, ominous tension can be had by sustaining some of these lower notes in p or softer. JW has gotten plenty of mileage out of this device.

1) concert C3—E3 = occasional (lower extension of tessitura); loudest = ff;
2) concert F2—B2 = uncommon (moderate note pacing only); loudest = a weak ff;
3) concert B1—E2 = rare (inarticulate, slow note pacing only); loudest = f
4) potentially usable pedal tones G1—Bb1 = a handful of isolated use cases; staged notes only for effect; no guarantees; loudest = a weak mf.
____________________

Stopping range lower limits:

1) Safe and reliable = no lower than concert F3;
2) Possible, but only with a large hand or stopping mute = no lower than concert C3.
____________________

Symphony orchestra horns are still laid out on the score according to the traditional high-horn/low-horn layout, even though nowadays they are all adept at playing the entire range.

Scoring stage horns do not use the traditional high/low layout. Also, scoring stage hornists use horns with larger bores than symphony orchestra hornists, hence they are a bit more open and forward.
____________________

Edited cuz typos.


----------



## I like music (Sep 24, 2020)

Wow, incredibly detailed and useful information everyone! Thanks @Gene Pool and @wst3 for taking the time on the extra detail.

@Gene Pool regarding larger bores, is it fair to say that there is a good deal of variation in tone betwee differen types of horn e.g. you don't know which type the players will bring to the session? I just assumed there was a standard that everyone used. Very useful to know! I guess this also has a bit of an impact on the libraries we buy (e.g. which horns were used?) or have I missed something obvious here?


----------



## mikeh-375 (Sep 25, 2020)

Doubling the lower registers at the unison (a2) can yield a more reliable and solid tone especially in softer background passages.


----------



## Snarf (Sep 25, 2020)

French horns can blend really well with softer woodwind textures (e.g. Venus from the Planets).


----------



## wst3 (Sep 25, 2020)

Snarf said:


> French horns can blend really well with softer woodwind textures (e.g. Venus from the Planets).


THIS! One of my favorite combinations is horns with pretty much any woodwind. In high school I played French Horn, and was invited to join the woodwind ensemble... I was confused, but I loved, and trusted, our band director so I went to the first rehearsal. I no longer remember what we played, but I remember being absolutely mesmerized by the sounds.

To the question of bore size - if you have talented players and a well made instruments there are differences and they are subtle, but definitely audible (at least to my ears). I also found the larger bore instruments somewhat easier to play, but I'm pretty sure you can find someone to say the opposite<G>!


----------



## Kent (Sep 25, 2020)

wst3 said:


> THIS! One of my favorite combinations is horns with pretty much any woodwind. In high school I played French Horn, and was invited to join the woodwind ensemble... I was confused, but I loved, and trusted, our band director so I went to the first rehearsal. I no longer remember what we played, but I remember being absolutely mesmerized by the sounds.
> 
> To the question of bore size - if you have talented players and a well made instruments there are differences and they are subtle, but definitely audible (at least to my ears). I also found the larger bore instruments somewhat easier to play, but I'm pretty sure you can find someone to say the opposite<G>!


I think there is a good reason that horn is part of the _woodwind_ quintet.


----------



## Rodney Money (Sep 25, 2020)

I have the pleasure of writing Horn parts all the time. Above is for a brass quintet and organ piece where the Horn is in their bread and butter written range, you see where I write in slurs, whole-tone lip trills, faster articulations, runs, rips, and possessing melodies, counter-melodies, and the suspended note of the chord.


----------



## I like music (Sep 25, 2020)

Rodney Money said:


> I have the pleasure of writing Horn parts all the time. Above is for a brass quintet and organ piece where the Horn is in their bread and butter written range, you see where I write in slurs, whole-tone lip trills, faster articulations, runs, rips, and possessing melodies, counter-melodies, and the suspended note of the chord.


Since I can't read so well I often have to transcribe these things into my daw to make audio sense of them. Is it OK with you if I give this a spin by mocking it up just to understand what's going on, please? Of course just for personal use.


----------



## Rodney Money (Sep 25, 2020)

*a*


I like music said:


> Since I can't read so well I often have to transcribe these things into my daw to make audio sense of them. Is it OK with you if I give this a spin by mocking it up just to understand what's going on, please? Of course just for personal use.


Go for it!


----------



## I like music (Sep 25, 2020)

Rodney Money said:


> *a*
> 
> Go for it!


Amazing, thanks!


----------

