# Ben Carson for President



## NYC Composer (Mar 28, 2015)

Apparently S.E. Cupp, a pretty staunch Republican, actually wants her party to WIN the Presidency- so she's a little upset that they would take a wingnut like Ben Carson seriously. The good Doctor has an alarming tendency to stuff his foot in his mouth, start chewing, then try to walk it all back the next day, as in his recent statement calling the Prez a "psychopath." What, "terrible President" wouldn't do??

Raised by a single mother, helped mightily by NUMEROUS social programs, he is, of course, against them now. He defines Obamacare as "slavery". He often compares America to Nazi Germany. He is of the opinion that homosexuality is a choice, as apparently he believes (and recently said publicly then had to walk it back) prison turns folks gay. 

He recently came in 4th (out of 17) in a state poll, and his PAC has raised 13 million.You can't make this stuff up. God bless America.


http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2015/03/27/4209712_se-cupp-conservatives-get-serious.html?rh=1 (http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2015/03 ... .html?rh=1)


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## Diffusor (Mar 28, 2015)

so in otherwords he is the proverbial "Uncle Tom" that escaped from the liberal plantation?


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## NYC Composer (Mar 28, 2015)

Diffusor @ Sat Mar 28 said:


> so in otherwords he is the proverbial "Uncle Tom" that escaped from the liberal plantation?



He seems to have benefited from governmental aid. So did I when my father died. I guess I escaped "the plantation" as well? People who have hungry children and accept food stamps, that's because they're on plantations? What in hell are you talking about??


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## Diffusor (Mar 28, 2015)

NYC Composer @ Sat Mar 28 said:


> Diffusor @ Sat Mar 28 said:
> 
> 
> > so in otherwords he is the proverbial "Uncle Tom" that escaped from the liberal plantation?
> ...



Just seems like every black person that is a conservative is always smeared and vilified by the left, and in more or less words is labelled an Uncle Tom. And some would argue it was precisely the welfare state that put him in the single parent family phenomena and needing "aid" to begin with. Before the Great Society single parenting in the black population was on par with white, and has steadily increased since to about 72%.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 28, 2015)

Diffusor @ Sat Mar 28 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sat Mar 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Diffusor @ Sat Mar 28 said:
> ...



I'm not vilifying him as an "Uncle Tom". I'm vilifying him as someone who has received the benefit of government aid that helped him, along with his hard work, to succeed- and then decided that help for people who might need it was akin to "slavery". I, on the other hand, received government aid as did my mother who had three small children, and am grateful I did. I have compassion for those who need help, which Mr. Carson the non self- made man apparently doesn't. I think he's a bigot against gay people.I think he's more or less batsh-t crazy and makes the Republican party, or at least the sector that supports him, look equally insane.

Oh by the way, did you even bother to read the article I linked? S.E. Cupp is probably MORE conservative than Carson, and I disagree with her on plenty of thing (especially her gun rights stance) and SHE thinks he's a nutty iustraction for conservatives.

I also think your race baiting is baseless and insulting. Good day to you, sir.


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## chimuelo (Mar 28, 2015)

Fun watching people who make a living off of being a conservative or liberal getting treated as an expert on absolutely nothing.
The world seems to need such experts since sheep require multiple dogs to guide the flocks.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 28, 2015)

B-a-a-a-a-ah!!


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## Soundhound (Mar 28, 2015)

Why is it that consetvatives, particularly Fox News devotees, always precede their made out of thin air bullshit with 'some would argue that...'

[/quote]

And some would argue it was precisely the welfare state that put him in the single parent family phenomena and needing "aid" to begin with. Before the Great Society single parenting in the black population was on par with white, and has steadily increased since to about 72%.[/quote]


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## Michael K. Bain (Mar 29, 2015)

I've been staying out of the political discussions lately, but this time I have to set the record straight.

NYC and Soundhound: you are mischaracterizing his views on welfare. He is not against welfare for those who need it. He is against the "welfare state", which is the government aiding people in living permanently on welfare instead of improving their lives. This is what he said in a recent Daily Mail article, including addressing the very claims you two guys are making against him:

from:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...blacks-trying-suppressed-cultivate-votes.html



> 'We need to reach out to people who think that maybe being dependent is reasonable as long as they feel safe. And it isn't. It really is not compassionate to pat people on the head and say, "There, there, you poor little thing, I'm going to take care of all your needs. Your health care, your food and your housing. Don't you worry about anything, it's just all those bad people who are causing you problems. I'm going to fix it".'
> 
> 'That's not compassion,' he said. That's the opposite of compassion. That's making people dependent.'
> *
> ...


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## chimuelo (Mar 29, 2015)

The Shepards (Billionaires/Corporations) are already using their Dogs (Conservatives/Liberals) to guide the Sheep to the selected pastures for grazing.
Promises of rivers of honey from Hillary hasn't been announced yet, but it's obvious that she will enter into 2016 Sweepstakes once the fake investigations that never conclude subside. The usual phony Congressional hearings, fake outrage will surely convince the Sheep that the above mentioned Dogs will get to the bottom of things.
Amazing, if a Company like Gibson Guitar doesn't turn over documents within days Federal Agenecies swarm the potentially dangerous craftsmen, even fining and jailing them.
But when an elite team member from any agency, or federal position is under "Investigation" that means the whistleblowers will be jailed and punished while the wealthy Liberals in this case, simply have their fellow Dogs of the "Conservative" side pretend they are angry, etc. etal...

Publishers Clearing House Sweepstakes and fake Liberal/Conservative races are so exactly the same.
They only exist as long as the participants still believe Ed McMahon will someday stop by and give them free stuff.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 29, 2015)

Dr Carson's mom was helped to feed him through his childhood via foodstamps and other social programs that gave him free eyeglasses, glasses he sorely needed to learn! He got Pell grants to go to school, took advantage of Federal loan programs, was a beneficiary of affirmative action. The "welfare state" provided him with opportunity, yet now he speaks out against the very things that gave him a leg up in life. 


No one I know believes in a culture of dependency, however, no logical person I know really believes America is a perfectly level playing field for all. Some people, especially children, need a helping hand to raise themselves from poverty. People like Dr. Ben Carson.


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## Michael K. Bain (Mar 29, 2015)

NYC Composer @ Sun Mar 29 said:


> Dr Carson's mom was helped to feed him through his childhood via foodstamps and other social programs that gave him free eyeglasses, glasses he sorely needed to learn! He got Pell grants to go to school, took advantage of Federal loan programs, was a beneficiary of affirmative action. The "welfare state" provided him with opportunity, yet now he speaks out against the very things that gave him a leg up in life. .


Why did I even bother to post the truth of the matter -his own words in print - if you insist on repeating your false claims against him? He does NOT speak out against welfare helping people. Dr. Carson admits that Welfare gave him a leg up" and "opportunity" to improve his life. That is not at odds with what he said he is against. He said that what he is against is welfare as a permanent solution for people who don't need it as a permanent solution. Welfare did not help him permanently. It helped him until he improved his lot in life. That's the purpose of welfare.



NYC Composer @ Sun Mar 29 said:


> No one I know believes in a culture of dependency


You may not personally know anyone who believes in it, but that doesn't change the fact that people are increasingly using welfare as a permanent solution instead of trying to get out and be self-sufficient.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 29, 2015)

Michael K. Bain @ Sun Mar 29 said:


> NYC Composer @ Sun Mar 29 said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Carson's mom was helped to feed him through his childhood via foodstamps and other social programs that gave him free eyeglasses, glasses he sorely needed to learn! He got Pell grants to go to school, took advantage of Federal loan programs, was a beneficiary of affirmative action. The "welfare state" provided him with opportunity, yet now he speaks out against the very things that gave him a leg up in life. .
> ...



Please point to Doctor Carson's actual plan to end the culture of dependency snd create a permanent solution to end welfare.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 29, 2015)

> Just seems like every black person that is a conservative is always smeared and vilified by the left



Not smeared, insulted justifiably. And not vilified, because they're self-disparaging by being conservative whether or not they're black.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 29, 2015)

> Apparently S.E. Cupp, a pretty staunch Republican, actually wants her party to WIN the Presidency



But who cares about that obnoxious woman or what she wants. She's gross.

We're on the same side of reality, Larry, but I don't go for "even Staunch Conservative X says Staunch Conservative Y is bad" arguments. I don't care what one fool thinks about another fool.

They're all great arguments for Hilary Clinton.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 29, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf @ Sun Mar 29 said:


> > Apparently S.E. Cupp, a pretty staunch Republican, actually wants her party to WIN the Presidency
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nuance isn't really your metier, Nick. :wink: 

I don't think you enjoy the spectacle of politics like I do. When S.E. Is horrified at the idea of putting up a candidate who equates gay marriage with NAMBLA and bestiality then tries to walk it back the next day, it's fun to watch. Why do you think people go to the circus?


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## NYC Composer (Mar 29, 2015)

A short list of wingnut statements from an article in Christian Post. Probably a liberal rag.


http://www.christianpost.com/news/obama ... gn-136522/


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## chimuelo (Mar 29, 2015)

The folks who really control these B actors have enjoy the best TOC/ROI of any investment.
Where else can millions of Sheep be hypnotized for just a few billion a year.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 29, 2015)

B-a-a-a-a!!!


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## Soundhound (Mar 29, 2015)

The herculean effort required to scour the insane right wing blogs and take down Fox News talking points verbatim is not unappreciated. We are in your debt, sir.



Michael K. Bain @ Sun Mar 29 said:


> Why did I even bother to post the truth of the matter


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## Michael K. Bain (Mar 29, 2015)

NYC Composer @ Sun Mar 29 said:


> Michael K. Bain @ Sun Mar 29 said:
> 
> 
> > NYC Composer @ Sun Mar 29 said:
> ...



I'll start researching that issue when you admit that your claims against him were false.


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## Michael K. Bain (Mar 29, 2015)

Soundhound @ Sun Mar 29 said:


> The herculean effort required to scour the insane right wing blogs and take down Fox News talking points verbatim is not unappreciated. We are in your debt, sir.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fox News Talking points? It was Ben Carson's own words. How is that "Fox News Talking Points"? That makes no sense.


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## Soundhound (Mar 29, 2015)

It's not possible to be a Ben Carson fan without fully ingesting and metabolizing Fox News drivel. It runs counter to the laws of physics.




Michael K. Bain @ Sun Mar 29 said:


> Soundhound @ Sun Mar 29 said:
> 
> 
> > The herculean effort required to scour the insane right wing blogs and take down Fox News talking points verbatim is not unappreciated. We are in your debt, sir.
> ...


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## José Herring (Mar 29, 2015)

I hope he wins the primary. He has a stronger chance of becoming grand wizard of the KKK than president of the United States. 

People are just learning about him. He isn't known yet. I've been sort of following him since reading his book in College. Before long he'll even have the GOP running scared from him. He really is full of hate and a unique brand of arrogance that will turn people off. He's as elitist as they come. I guess maybe you have to be to slice people's brains open with any confidence, but his disdain for the human race will become apparent as time goes on. People are already suspecting it. It's just a matter of time before everybody will know it with all certainty.

Should be fun to watch. Almost can't wait to see the GOP crash and burn through primary season.


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## chimuelo (Mar 30, 2015)

Nobody crashes and burns Jose, there's big money in these staged media events.
John Edwards got to keep huge donations once he got busted stealing cash from investors in that successful Kerry/Edwards race.
He even sued a Brain Surgeon like Doc Carson and won 18 million. Didn't even lose his License to steal after stealing and being stupid enough to get caught.

In 2015 the Saudi's are letting women vote as long as they wear those black pajamas and have a man with them. Hillarys' top aide is a Muslim lady, the writing is on the wall.

But nobody in these dog and pony shows loses. They win if they lose, that's the beauty of DC.
Guys like Ed Snowden are crucified, while Lois Lerner is handsomely rewarded.
Canadian campaign investors get to build a website and steal 1 billion + for failing.
It's nothing personal, it's just business.

Liberals and Conservatives are the minority, always will be no matter how hard this left/right divisional strategy by actors and actresses in DC along with corporate media pushes it.
This is why after these fake primaries both of the winners from the sweepstakes suddenly both pretend now to somehow represent the middle class.
We know they are full of shit, but we do get to decide who gets the big spotlight, and Hillary is perfect.
Disagreeing with her means you hate women, and women around the globe in China, Middle East have been waiting for their shining star.
Nothing scares our adversaries and allies more than a women who wants a set of nuts.

They're going to need a bigger chair in the Oval Office though. There hasn't been an Ass that big since Teddy Roosevelt.

Big Ass and Big Balls are going to win in 2016, so let the freak show GOP guys wet their beaks a little.

After all what a great crew of misfits they got this time.
At least they're smart enough to get the Hispanics and blacks out front first, pay them off, and then let the white guys get down to the more serious acting required to steer the Sheep.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 30, 2015)

You say sheep, I say b-a-a-a-a!!


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## chimuelo (Mar 30, 2015)

I love Sheep as much as the politicians do. I was one too until recent years.

I miss this place, use to get Eggs from there, you made me reminisce a little.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/woolly-egg-ranch-mill-valley

Slightly OT on the original OT but do you shop for food like most Sheep, or are you kind of picky about which steroids, antibiotics and pesticides you ingest...

Seeings how Sheep are now in the discussion...


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## Michael K. Bain (Mar 30, 2015)

Soundhound @ Mon Mar 30 said:


> It's not possible to be a Ben Carson fan without fully ingesting and metabolizing Fox News drivel. It runs counter to the laws of physics.


Actually, I don't even watch Fox News. I refuse to pay the amount for the satellite package it's in. I'm an HGTV, History Channel and Food Network guy.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm just one of the dumb sheep. I do everything the dumb sheep do. Matter of fact, I think everyone is a dumb sheep 'cept you, Chimmy.


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## chimuelo (Mar 30, 2015)

Hell Larry you're a good Sheep, most are. It's the emotional, angry kind that obey the dogs that are just no fun atall..
In my woolier days I was a Democrat.
Had thick Wool when I was told by the BA and TS/VP at our Local to vote for Reagan too.
Sad thing is that when they created all of the billionaires that run the elections globally now, we made such bank he was like a hero.
Years later I found out trickle down economics, and trickle down regulations are just bad for working folks in the long run..


B_A_A_A_A_!!!


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## Soundhound (Mar 30, 2015)

Ahaaa!!!! A little of the backstory slips out. You were taken in (even for a moment) by Milton Friedman and his invisible hand? The biggest, fattest, most ruinous lie ever perpetrated on the John wayne loving, Sunday football guzzling Amurican public? Say it ain't so Chimmy, Say it ain't so! No wonder you refuse to believe a word out of anyone's mouth again. (Not that there's anything wrong with that -- apologies to Seinfeld)


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 30, 2015)

> Nuance isn't really your metier, Nick.



Actually it very much is. What's not my metier is being amused by stupid jerks who are playing games with the lives of hundreds of millions of people. There's nothing subtle about that.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 30, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> > Nuance isn't really your metier, Nick.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it very much is. What's not my metier is being amused by stupid jerks who are playing games with the lives of hundreds of millions of people. There's nothing subtle about that.



If you say so. My opinion, there's nothing subtle about the way you express your opinions. Am I incorrect about that as well?...are you going for subtle?

You can be amused, you can not be amused, but in this case it really doesn't matter, because Ben Carson is never going to be President of these United States. I'm going to enjoy the spectacle. You take it any way you want to.


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## snowleopard (Mar 31, 2015)

Michael K. Bain @ Sun Mar 29 said:


> > 'We need to reach out to people who think that maybe being dependent is reasonable as long as they feel safe. And it isn't. It really is not compassionate to pat people on the head and say, "There, there, you poor little thing, I'm going to take care of all your needs. Your health care, your food and your housing. Don't you worry about anything, it's just all those bad people who are causing you problems. I'm going to fix it".'
> 
> 
> I'm going to call bullshit on this. Most of what he said is hollow.
> ...


And he offers no solution to this, other than the same, tired old idiom of the conservatives. That if we cut federal services to these people it will somehow motivate them to find a job. As if they are all stupid, lazy and unmotivated. And that the best way to create jobs for them is to give billionaires tax cuts. He also favors a flat tax that would drastically increase the economic stratification of wealth in this country, by forcing all poor people to pay 10% of their money in taxes, while cutting taxes for the wealthiest down to that same 10%. He's unsurprisingly vague on corporate welfare (want to talk about dependence?), saying the ever repeated but never done, and never defined "loopholes" should be closed in the tax code. 

Carson is also on record saying that health savings accounts are the solution to the health care problem. I love HSA's as an add-on to current health care. But to imply that this is the solution is crazy. There is no way the working poor would be able to save enough money to cover anything. While the wealthiest could save huge amounts of money tax free. Carson's response is that people of wealth and churches could donate to accounts of those in need. Right, in a country of individuals, ruled by greed and selfishness above all else, that's going to really happen anywhere near enough to help these people. Does anyone really believe that? 

Carson also supports an across the board 10% cut in all federal services. This would include things like nursing homes, national weather service, national parks, the NTSB, OSHA, etc. Not to mention infrastructure. Take a look at Katrina. We already blew it by not reinforcing the levy's or helping develop off shore breaks because they were deemed "too expensive", and cuts in FEMA, plus putting a well meaning, but unqualified leader in charge (Brown) under the guise the market would take care of itself. Then the conservatives act surprised when it fails, and says because it fails the programs should be cut further. 

Carson is also on record saying allowing gay marriage is slippery slope with disastrous ending. But he doesn't elaborate or define what that ending actually is. As if shoving gays back into the closet where they were which made his Christian faith more comfortable is a better solution. 

The guy is definitely not a firebrand, and he's not an idiot. He doesn't have the same tongue as someone like Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz, but he also seems from a completely disconnected viewpoint, as if he were living on another planet.


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## chimuelo (Mar 31, 2015)

Independents like me are quite happy with Team Obama. The foreign policy initiatives are what we appreciate.
A strong America abroad means a stronger economy at home. Our allies can prosper under a better global economy too, and this is where my admiration for Obama is most appreciated.
The only folks doing well in the failed policies of Cheney/Bush were Haliburton.
Now those trillions can be spent back here while we support other folks as they kill each other instead of us killing them.
Americans are tired of killing folks, we prefer killing them out of revenge, not because they need to become a democracy when it's obvious they are used to Kings and Dictators controlling their lives.

Vital component is to keep both houses full of bad cops (GOP) that way we can send women around quietly negotiating, with the knowledge that if they disagree the bad cops and big dogs will be unleashed.

What a great future we look forward to.
Me, I don't my need hand held by these redistributors, I just need them to make America prosper as my son is more of a concern to me.
I survived the Bush/Obama regimes fine without their free prescription drugs and free food, free insurance sweepstakes.

For once the wealthiest people around the world all have skin in the same game.
As far as the phony Nuclear talks, we win either way.
What's wrong with a Nuclear arms race in the Middle East...?
We will sell both sides the necessary tools and prosper from that as well.

The world is great, fret not Sheep of the GOP or DNC, your treats will continue...

Hillary 2016...


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## Michael K. Bain (Mar 31, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf @ Mon Mar 30 said:


> > Nuance isn't really your metier, Nick.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it very much is. What's not my metier is being amused by stupid jerks who are playing games with the lives of hundreds of millions of people. There's nothing subtle about that.


Oh good grief, Nick, do you actually believe you are subtle?


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## JonFairhurst (Mar 31, 2015)

Regarding health care, the Republican solution is that the disabled, unemployed, and working poor shouldn't get any.

There are three who can pay for health care:
1) Individuals,
2) Employers, and/or
3) Government.

The GOP tells us that it should be individuals. That sounds great on the surface, but it's not practical as:
1) Many disabled people can't work,
2) We generally don't have full employment,
3) Minimum wage won't support it and has fallen due to inflation - specifically because of Republican opposition, and
4) Catastrophic medical bills can bankrupt even the 99.5%, so insurance is required - but Dr. Ben opposes for-profit insurance.

Sure, employers can pay, but...
* Not everybody is or can be employed,
* Republicans oppose requiring employers to fund healthcare,
* If you do have employer-funded healthcare and if they aren't compelled to pay for preexisting conditions, changing jobs can lead to loss of coverage.
* Employer based healthcare is necessarily insurance based as smaller companies can't fund risks - and Dr. Ben opposes insurance.

That leaves the Government.
* Republicans are against any and all government-funded social programs.

The only conclusion is that Republicans want us to die with the poorest first in line.

Hey, if they want individuals to pay for it, let's see them fund community college education, boost the minimum wage, and create a program to achieve full employment - including for the infirm and disabled. That'll be the day.

The bottom line is that the Republican vision is for the US to be a 3rd world country. The South was founded with that vision, based on resource extraction and slave labor. Want a military government with minimal social spending? Try Paraguay. It's a vision of the "haves" vs. the "have nothings" maintained though the barrel of a gun.

It's not that Republican leaders are crazy, stupid, or deny reality. It's that they won't vocalize their vision publicly and honestly.


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## Michael K. Bain (Mar 31, 2015)

JonFairhurst @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> * Republicans are against any and all government-funded social programs.


That's simply not true. I personally don't know any Republican who is against all government-funded social programs, and all of my large family and most of my friends are Republican.


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## chimuelo (Mar 31, 2015)

Brotha' Man Jon don't you understand that is all fake grandstanding...?

The GOP is simply trying to put fear into the Insurance CEOs Liberals once demonized before becoming partners in Crime.

I remember Obama himself saying what a shame that Doctors always preferred an amputation to make more money.
Similar tactics to shake down campaign cash, which is really protection money.

GOP missed out on all of that redistribution and simply want to appear to change the status quo, and let's say they send a pretend bill to the Senate, who then sends a pretend bill to Hillary....Do you think she would be under any pressure to sign it..?

Besides I can see Hillary and McConnell having a chat at the Oval Office.

McConnell: Hillary, how are we going to keep the Liberals happy when Americans start making more and their EBT benefits haven't increased.....??

Hillary: We can tell them the GOP is going to take away their free stuff, that should get them to vote this time....

McConnell: But they'll be climbing the walls.......!!???

Hillary: Relax Mitch, they need the exercise.....


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 31, 2015)

> Oh good grief, Nick, do you actually believe you are subtle?



If you believe your point of view is valid, of course you're going to think that I'm not subtle. 

The thing is, you believe it's perfectly acceptable to be Republican. It's not, it's totally vile to support a party that's on the wrong side of every issue.

And I'm not even talking about the bat guano-crazy wing that forces even the ones with a glimmer of rational thought over the cliff.



> I personally don't know any Republican who is against all government-funded social programs, and all of my large family and most of my friends are Republican.



That's only because you don't understand the ramifications of the economic policies that foul party supports.

Exhibit A: the budget the House just passed!

These people are f-ing monsters. There's nothing subtle about it.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 31, 2015)

Who doesn't believe their point of view is valid?? That's the crux of HAVING a point of view! 

Regardless of your point of view, you can explore it and debate it, or shout the rectitude of your position from the rooftops. In my opinion, the latter lacks nuance or subtlety. When you put on the cape and the mask, everyone knows you're Batman, dig?


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## NYC Composer (Mar 31, 2015)

snowleopard @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> Michael K. Bain @ Sun Mar 29 said:
> 
> 
> > > 'We need to reach out to people who think that maybe being dependent is reasonable as long as they feel safe. And it isn't. It really is not compassionate to pat people on the head and say, "There, there, you poor little thing, I'm going to take care of all your needs. Your health care, your food and your housing. Don't you worry about anything, it's just all those bad people who are causing you problems. I'm going to fix it".'
> ...



Good points, especially about the across the board cuts. That was a major part of Paul Ryan's 2012 "Path to Prosperity" budget-oh, except for the military budget. That was exempted, even increased over time.

"Not an idiot." Hmmm. He says crazy stuff a lot. See the Christian Post article I cited earlier. I think there are defined measures of intelligence, and though Dr. Carson speaks softly, he says outrageous, inflammatory things that he is constantly forced to walk back.
It's as if the ruminations in the lizard part of his brain are forced to come out of his mouth- that strikes me as both dangerous and unintelligent.


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## JonFairhurst (Mar 31, 2015)

chimuelo @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> Brotha' Man Jon don't you understand that is all fake grandstanding...?



Don't you understand the consequences?

This is about two groups fighting for power (and groups within groups fighting for power.) Once they get power, what will they do with it?

It all comes down to opposing agendas. 

Obama made it so I can change jobs without me and my family losing coverage. And my youngest kids get to stay on my insurance for another few years. Because we've been healthy, it didn't cost a thing, but it's good to know that we won't go bankrupt for health reasons.

The Republicans voted to appeal the ACA umpteen times. You can call it grandstanding because they didn't have the numbers to repeal it. Given enough votes, we'd call it a policy change.

And how about the Iraq War? The PNAC document telegraphed the NeoCon intentions. They got power. The found an excuse. They went to war. They rewarded their friends (Halliburton, Carlisle, etc.)

Sheldon Adelson don't donate nearly a billion dollars for grandstanding. He pays for results. Sure, the Republicans brand themselves to hoodwink people into voting for Adelson's interests over their own.

Dismiss the theater. But take the policy differences seriously. Very seriously.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 31, 2015)

> Who doesn't believe their point of view is valid?? That's the crux of HAVING a point of view!



And having a sociopathological point of view is sociopathological.

Reasonable people can disagree with unreasonable people, and I do.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 31, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> > Who doesn't believe their point of view is valid?? That's the crux of HAVING a point of view!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As well you should. You cherry picked- the discussion wasn't about content, it was about style- where you and I constantly clash.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 31, 2015)

Just a reminder, Larry, this is what we're actually talking about. I don't thunder about nothing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/18/us/po ... hone-share

"The plan contains more than $1 trillion in savings from unspecified cuts to programs like food stamps and welfare. To make matters more complicated, the budget demands the full repeal of the Affordable Care Act, including the tax increases that finance the health care law. But the plan assumes the same level of federal revenue over the next 10 years that the Congressional Budget Office foresees with those tax increases in place — essentially counting $1 trillion of taxes that the same budget swears to forgo."

Talk amongst yourselves.


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## chimuelo (Mar 31, 2015)

But Jon where was the policy difference in regards to Iraq..........?
Americans did not want to invade Iraq. Polls indicated the very same.

I bring you John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, GW Bush and Cheney.........
They wanted to go into Iraq, we said no, then they paid the NYTimes to show American Sheep that 80+ % agreed.

Yes policy matters.
But fear mongering, like sending out flyers to blacks with pictures of the GOP lynching them, taking away welfare, throwing grandma off of the cliff........??
They show such disdain for their voters, and we saw since all Liberals have been removed, no blacks are being lynched by GOP White racists, etc. etc.

As far as the ACA covering insured folks switching jobs, or even relocating to another state, remember during evil white racist Reagan era, we saw health care for everyone, just go to the hospital, then came the COBRA Insurance coverage, which even w/o the ACA you would have been covered under a white racists' law made decades ago.

Let's ask ourseleves what laws if any have been repealed...........?

Well earmarks for one, Feingold/McCain laws that made bribery illegal, we knew that wouldn't last.
So they are really 2 peas in a pod.
The only thing they differ on is what Abortion...........? Oh boy, heavy discussion at my dinner table...Gay Rights.........? Ewww another huge topic at dinner.
Actually the showrooms in Vegas were ecstatic and I am happy for those folks, but big deal........???
The differences these 2 Crime Families have are slim to nothing.

I can cite several Bi Partisn agreements where the 2 groups who are supposedly arch enemies agree 100%......the recent Banking Laws were passed after what a 2 week session of bribery........??

Don't worry nobody is going to repeal anything unless it's a law that makes lying truly a crime, then that one will pass within an hour...... 0oD


----------



## Soundhound (Mar 31, 2015)

Um, Rush Limbaugh? Mark Levin? Anne Coulter, Laura Abrams, S.E. Cupp, William Kristol, The Washington Times... Come on Michael, you're not developing a Ben Caron crush in a vacuum. Fess up now...




Michael K. Bain @ Mon Mar 30 said:


> Soundhound @ Mon Mar 30 said:
> 
> 
> > It's not possible to be a Ben Carson fan without fully ingesting and metabolizing Fox News drivel. It runs counter to the laws of physics.
> ...


----------



## Michael K. Bain (Mar 31, 2015)

Soundhound @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> Um, Rush Limbaugh? Mark Levin? Anne Coulter, Laura Abrams, S.E. Cupp, William Kristol, The Washington Times... Come on Michael, you're not developing a Ben Caron crush in a vacuum. Fess up now...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


NY Times, New Yorker, Slate, LA Times, Huggington Post ... Come on hound, you've not developed a crush on liberalism in a vacuum. Fess up now...

Or maybe we both have brains and can think for ourselves.


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## chimuelo (Mar 31, 2015)

http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article17016212.html (http://www.kansascity.com/news/governme ... 16212.html)

Sad too, so far just a couple of suicides.


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## Soundhound (Mar 31, 2015)

Yes indeedy, I read the new york times and the New Yorker. And the economist and and and... I've been a progressive since the sixties. The la times is crap. I've noticed in these (always futile) communications with members of the dark side, that they never will admit to where they recieve their brainwashing. Unless you just listed your regular reading list, I've got 5 bucks says we'll never know where you get yours. 


(


Michael K. Bain @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> Soundhound @ Tue Mar 31 said:
> 
> 
> > Um, Rush Limbaugh? Mark Levin? Anne Coulter, Laura Abrams, S.E. Cupp, William Kristol, The Washington Times... Come on Michael, you're not developing a Ben Caron crush in a vacuum. Fess up now...
> ...


----------



## Michael K. Bain (Mar 31, 2015)

Soundhound @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> Yes indeedy, I read the new york times and the New Yorker. And the economist and and and... I've been a progressive since the sixties. The la times is crap. I've noticed in these (always futile) communications with members of the dark side, that they never will admit to where they recieve their brainwashing. Unless you just listed your regular reading list, I've got 5 bucks says we'll never know where you get yours.


So, you received your brainwashing from the the New York times and the New Yorker? Or do you read them because they have the same views as yourself?


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## Soundhound (Mar 31, 2015)

I've been reading them both since I was a kid. They are both reputable publications, with long histories of excellent writing and reporting. Not without lapses into mediocrity and bad mistakes (thank you Judith Miller, for convincing otherwise intelligent people that invading Iraq wasn't the worst foreign policty decision since the Gulf of Tonkin). Nevertheless, among any even reasonably well read people, the Times is the paper of record. 

Where should I spend my 5 bucks, Michael? Seems a little low for getting even a bargain VI... But then maybe I can raise a little more cash—I'm starting to realize that you probably do watch Fox News, since you refuse to say where you get your brains washed. Another $20 on top of the five I've already pocketed says that you're full of it and do watch Fox News. No informed, thinking person could read about Ben Carson and be anything but appalled.

Which of the Fox News tightly bodiced blondes is your favorite? Do they send you complimentary wall posters of them?


----------



## Michael K. Bain (Mar 31, 2015)

Soundhound @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> I've been reading them both since I was a kid. They are both reputable publications, with long histories of excellent writing and reporting. Not without lapses into mediocrity and bad mistakes (thank you Judith Miller, for convincing otherwise intelligent people that invading Iraq wasn't the worst foreign policty decision since the Gulf of Tonkin). Nevertheless, among any even reasonably well read people, the Times is the paper of record.



One thing I learned about liberals a long time ago, and you have demonstrated here, is that what's good for the goose is not good for the gander. Conservatives are "brainwashed" by Fox News, Mark Levin and Rush Limbaugh, but liberals are enlightened by the near perfect journalism of leftist rags like The NY Times and the New Yorker.



Soundhound @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> I
> Where should I spend my 5 bucks, Michael? Seems a little low for getting even a bargain VI... But then maybe I can raise a little more cash—I'm starting to realize that you probably do watch Fox News, since you refuse to say where you get your brains washed. Another $20 on top of the five I've already pocketed says that you're full of it and do watch Fox News. No informed, thinking person could read about Ben Carson and be anything but appalled.
> 
> Which of the Fox News tightly bodiced blondes is your favorite? Do they send you complimentary wall posters of them?



Spend your $5 on this. It will do you some good:

http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Tyranny-Conservative-Mark-Levin/dp/1416562877/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1427861581&sr=8-2&keywords=mark+levin (http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Tyranny-C ... mark+levin)

But wait, don't spend that $5 yet. It's mine. I just told you what you wanted to know. 

You know what, I really don't watch Fox News because I don't have that Dish network package.


----------



## Soundhound (Mar 31, 2015)

You are not informed, Michael. You are deeply, profoundly ignorant. You believe what you are told by Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin, who is not just an idiot, but an asshole. Not that Rush isn't both of those things, but putting a nice sentence together sometimes forces one's hand and clarity be damned.  

You think The New York Times is a leftist rag. You think Ben Carson is a reasonable person. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None. There are black helicopters coming for your guns and your god. While you hunker down in your bunker and curse the day a black man was made president, I'm taking my $25 bucks and buying a hot fudge sundae and a copy of some Noam Chomsky to read on the beach.


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## Michael K. Bain (Mar 31, 2015)

Soundhound @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> You are not informed, Michael. You are deeply, profoundly ignorant. You believe what you are told by Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin, who is not just an idiot, but an asshole. Not that Rush isn't both of those things, but putting a nice sentence together sometimes forces one's hand and clarity be damned.
> 
> You think The New York Times is a leftist rag. You think Ben Carson is a reasonable person. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None. There are black helicopters coming for your guns and your god. While you hunker down in your bunker and curse the day a black man was made president, I'm taking my $25 bucks and buying a hot fudge sundae and a copy of some Noam Chomsky to read on the beach.


Just insult after insult. You go from calling me brainwashed, then to liar, then to racist. How could you type so many words without forming at least one thought of substance?

Have fun with your $25. Don't know where you got that from. You still owe me $5. I told you exactly what you wanted to know.


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## Soundhound (Mar 31, 2015)

Well, you read Mark Levin, Michael. You don't just read him, you make him recommended reading. Therefore you are brainwashed. That is substantive. You won't find it substantive because, well that's a tautology or some other word I can't remember from philosophy 101.

Did I call you a liar? Terribly sorry, didn't mean to. Racist is an assumption on my part. I'd put another five bucks on that, but since the first thing any racist says is 'I'm no racist', that would be a long haul with you, and we've taken more than our fair share of this thread as it is. 

I just couldn't believe that an informed person could take Ben Carson seriously. Since you take Mark Levin seriously, that has answered my question. 

We can't talk Michael, you have been told that the world is flat, and (I'm guessing again) was created 6,000 years ago. Mine is round and has a giant hole in the ozone layer. Let's call it a day, it's a waste of time to try.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 31, 2015)

Soundhound @ Wed Apr 01 said:


> Well, you read Mark Levin, Michael. You don't just read him, you make him recommended reading. Therefore you are brainwashed. That is substantive. You won't find it substantive because, well that's a tautology or some other word I can't remember from philosophy 101.
> 
> Did I call you a liar? Terribly sorry, didn't mean to. Racist is an assumption on my part. I'd put another five bucks on that, but since the first thing any racist says is 'I'm no racist', that would be a long haul with you, and we've taken more than our fair share of this thread as it is.
> 
> ...



Incorrect. The reason you can't find common ground with Michael is that you have a point of view and you're right, goddamnit. There is no middle ground. There is no compromise. Michael is an idiot. His spiritual beliefs don't matter to you You're a smart person. The end. 

Hmmm.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 31, 2015)

> One thing I learned about liberals a long time ago, and you have demonstrated here, is that what's good for the goose is not good for the gander.



False equivalence all over the place. As I said, your point of view is not valid (if you're Republican). You just don't know it.

The New York times deals with reality. That's not leftist or anything else.

They have some great opinion columnists who are liberal, Paul Krugman and Nicholas Kristof among them, and they're great. But they also have jackass David Brooks, for example.

Those are columnists; what they say is presented as opinion. It so happens that Paul Krugman is pretty much always right, but that's because liberalism isn't an ism, it's reality.


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## Soundhound (Mar 31, 2015)

Well yes, and no. 

No in that I can't take anyone seriously who thinks the New York times is a leftist rag and reads Mark Levin. 

And yes in that maybe I was being kind of a dick. Sorry about that. 

But I don't apologize for not believing the earth was created 6,000 years ago. I'm taking that one to the bank.




NYC Composer @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> Soundhound @ Wed Apr 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, you read Mark Levin, Michael. You don't just read him, you make him recommended reading. Therefore you are brainwashed. That is substantive. You won't find it substantive because, well that's a tautology or some other word I can't remember from philosophy 101.
> ...


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## chimuelo (Apr 1, 2015)

Awesome thread, truly shows the level of indoctrination from free schools, free food and free disinformation. To the point the believers actually brag about which outlets they are indoctrinated by.... :lol: 

A good buddy of mine has been quite successful as he has a few PR Firms he pays to lie but they do help guide consumer Sheep to the desired pastures.
15k a month for their connections to just 2 of the above mentioned rags like the NYTimes and LA Times.
They write great reviews before the devices even have BETAs to send them.
We get a kick out of the way things work in the world of sales. It's nothing personal, just business.
But honestly, everything else they blather on about is real, and they wouldn't dare lie about things like WMDs in Iraq...read all about it........extra...extra.
I wonder how much Liberals and Conservatives spend from just our tax dollars to cause the believers to tremble in fear of losing their free treats...?

Owning Media is where the money is these days. You take millions of the corporations cash, give it to the Liberals and Conservatives, then they turn around and give it all back in the form of "advertising".... Awesome. And now you get legislation and a great ROI/TOC.
Dirty Deeds...DONE WITH SHEEP..........Dirty Deeds......NOT DIRT CHEAP.
Great song.

These upcoming Sheepfights will truly be the best yet.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 1, 2015)

B-a-a-a! (Tired bleat)


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## Michael K. Bain (Apr 1, 2015)

Soundhound @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> Well, you read Mark Levin, Michael. You don't just read him, you make him recommended reading. Therefore you are brainwashed.



Actually, I've never read a book of his in my life. In fact, I've never read a book by any talk radio host. I knew I could recommend it to you because I know the views that are in the book. But I listen to him on the radio if I'm in my car while his show is on, which isn't much. But I freely admit I like him and his views.

The above quote illustrates yet again that with you, what's good for the goose is not good for the gander. I'm brainwashed because i listen to Mark Levin. You are not brainwashed even though you probably read leftist newspapers and magazines more than I listen to Mark Levin.



Soundhound @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> Did I call you a liar? Terribly sorry, didn't mean to.



You did. On no less than two occasions, I told you I don't watch Fox News and i don't have that satellite package. On no less than two occasions, you told me that you don't believe me.



Soundhound @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> Racist is an assumption on my part. I'd put another five bucks on that, but since the first thing any racist says is 'I'm no racist', that would be a long haul with you, and we've taken more than our fair share of this thread as it is.



No we haven't. Not yet. I'm not letting you say those things without replying.

Why do you assume that I'm a racist? I have said nothing in this thread or any other thread about race or anything like that. What is it with people who think that we conservatives couldn't possibly dislike Obama because of his liberal agenda, that it must be because of his skin color? 

Be careful about assuming. You know what they say about assuming.



Soundhound @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> We can't talk Michael, you have been told that the world is flat,



I've never been told that the world was flat, and I don't believe it. That's not even assuming, that's just wild, out-of-the-blue, ridiculous speculation.



Soundhound @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> and (I'm guessing again) was created 6,000 years ago.



Honestly, I don't have an opinion on how old the earth is, and it doesn't matter to me. If it is billions of years old, that doesn't negate anything i believe about the Bible.


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## Michael K. Bain (Apr 1, 2015)

NYC Composer @ Tue Mar 31 said:


> Soundhound @ Wed Apr 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, you read Mark Levin, Michael. You don't just read him, you make him recommended reading. Therefore you are brainwashed. That is substantive. You won't find it substantive because, well that's a tautology or some other word I can't remember from philosophy 101.
> ...



Thank you very much, NYC.


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## Soundhound (Apr 1, 2015)

Well the cold light of dawn is not being kind. I apologize to Michael, and to the thread in general for being rude and disrespectful to Michael. 

I believe that this country has moved increasingly, steadily, dangerously to the right ever since Reagan took office, and I’m not convinced the pendulum has started swinging back in the other direction.


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## Michael K. Bain (Apr 1, 2015)

Soundhound @ Wed Apr 01 said:


> Well the cold light of dawn is not being kind. I apologize to Michael, and to the thread in general for being rude and disrespectful to Michael.


Thank you very much; I accept.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 1, 2015)

'ja think, Sounhound? 

---

Just to be clear, finding common ground with people isn't the question as far as I'm concerned. That's a given. Most people agree about most things.

It's the points of disagreement on which there's no compromise because compromise would make you an idiot. There's no "middle ground" between me and someone who says global warming isn't man-made, or someone who says we have to cut the deficit during a depressed economy, or we need to privatize Social Security...in other words, the Republican party.

These aren't subjective issues, they're just crap, and I call a spade a f-ing shovel. If you disagree with any of these things, you're wrong and I'm not going to suffer your foolishness gladly.

If you're opposed to abortion because you think it's murder, that's an opinion I disagree with but respect. Or if you think we need to intervene in world hotspot X, I'll usually disagree but still respect any valid reasons you come up with.

That's not where the debate is. It's between normal people and total f-ing idiots who are hell-bent on ruining the country - whether or not they mean well.


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## chimuelo (Apr 1, 2015)

Fear not Soundhound, my son and his generation are smarter than we were and can handle things without having to worry about what Their Country Can Do For Them.
My youngest already bought his first house at 20 years old, Journeyed out in the IBEW for 60 USD an hour.
Infrastructure is long overdue so he won't have to boom out. 13 years of work on the books in Nevada, the only real Progressive State in the nation.

Who cares about right or left, up or down is more relevant.
Liberals at least kept their word on bringing home our sons and daughters.
The next President will have a walk in the park. Obama fell in the toilet and came out smelling like a rose.
Too bad minorities have suffered under this administration.
For folks who praise an education so much, closing 50 schools by Obama advisor Rahm, then taking away vouchers, shutting down charter schools.
Really big mistakes, the elections prove that.

Next Prez had better just get down with the economy since the price of occupation abroad will translate into infrastructure.

Instead of Pelosi building railroads to her Vineyards, Reid selling us land at twice the price for an unnecessary bridge, Murtha building his own terminal at an airport, then dying.
We will probably suffer with Republicans building Christian Universities as if the teachings of Jesus are for sale.
Guest speakers like Jimmy Swaggart, Benny Hinn....

We have plenty of money for these gangsters to spend on themselves, don't sweat the small stuff.


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## Soundhound (Apr 1, 2015)

I agree all the way around there, Nick.

I'm constantly falling into the mystery of how someone can believe those things. From a consumer of right wing disinformation, right up to Dick Cheney. Isn't the cognitive dissonance deafening? How does Cheney sleep at night? Very well one assumes, but how does that work? Does he really think he was doing the right thing? Or does he think any ends justify the means? I have to think it's the latter. As we used to say when trying to make sense of the world in our 20s: the three most powerful forces in the universe are gravity, entropy and denial.





Nick Batzdorf @ Wed Apr 01 said:


> 'ja think, Sounhound?
> 
> ---
> 
> ...


----------



## Soundhound (Apr 1, 2015)

Part of me absolutely hears you Chim. But I think it's the same part of me that is open to the idea that the observable universe may very well be sitting inside an atom in a bell on a collar around an adorable kittie's neck.

As bad as things have gotten, they've been bad before. Teddy Roosevelt broke up monopolies, we moved past the horrors of child labor, institutional racism was made (technically) illegal. Progress has been made. We backslide continually—Vietnam, deregulation, Iraq, Citizen's United, the regressive, discriminatory law just passed in Indiana—but all the more reason to keep fighting the good fight. 







chimuelo @ Wed Apr 01 said:


> Fear not Soundhound, my son and his generation are smarter than we were and can handle things without having to worry about what Their Country Can Do For Them.
> My youngest already bought his first house at 20 years old, Journeyed out in the IBEW for 60 USD an hour.
> Infrastructure is long overdue so he won't have to boom out. 13 years of work on the books in Nevada, the only real Progressive State in the nation.
> 
> ...


----------



## Soundhound (Apr 1, 2015)

Thank you, Michael. 




Michael K. Bain @ Wed Apr 01 said:


> Soundhound @ Wed Apr 01 said:
> 
> 
> > Well the cold light of dawn is not being kind. I apologize to Michael, and to the thread in general for being rude and disrespectful to Michael.


Thank you very much; I accept.[/quote


----------



## chimuelo (Apr 2, 2015)

FWIW It's Media Matters/MoveOn & Sharpton/Soros folks that are driving Independents into the arms of La Familia GOP.
But when Indies see Cruz, Carson, Santorum, Bush, etc.
It's a choice between the Organized Riot squads that caused such trauma to the community, and these clowns. 
Not much of a choice is it.

Here's my La Familia who actually build America.
Still loyal but not for long. They take pride in building communities, not making a profit as a Liberal Slumlord, or professional "organizer" that destroys communites and any hopes of it's kids getting out.

Union Democrats built America, only to have Conservatives and Liberals destroy it.

You'll find me as a great partner once these tax cheats, and Big Oil Billionaires that pose as "Climate Change" supporters get swept aside.

Until then Liberals will continue to lose elections.
I think this has become obvious, even to most indoctrinated.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 2, 2015)

Actually, liberals would always be pro-union. It's corporate Democrats, the ones who are less progressive, you think are the same person as Ted Cruz and Santorum.

But even the corporate Democrats aren't Republicans. For example, Charles Schumer has been called the Senator from Wall St. - the guy who blathered against Obama for concentrating on healthcare instead of [I forget], as if that makes any sense whatsoever - but he's still on the right side of most issues.

Your idea that everyone is the same - corrupt - is still wrong, Chim, no matter how many times you post the same thing.


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## chimuelo (Apr 2, 2015)

You can disagree Nick, totally respect that position since you really want the same things working folks want.

But the lies and corruption are coming to an end as Liberals are being replaced by Union Democrats like the soldier girl from Hawaii.
She actually served her country, what a concept.

You and I might be together in a workers party in the future Nick... o-[][]-o 

As soon as we remove the rest of the rich white Liberals and then pressure the GOP into actually putting up federal contracts for companies to bid on for nation wide infrastructure. If they lose at least Liberals will be gone and a new generation of Union Democrats can replace these organizers and hustlers.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm all for that. My only objection is to your calling them liberals.

That's like calling pirates Somalis.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 9, 2015)

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/politics/ ... index.html

Dr Carson hasn't seemed to do well with the issue of gayness, so he now prefers not to talk about it, leaving the "personal issues to personal people." ...though he thinks gayness is a choice, or so he's been quoted as saying.

I get the feeling he doesn't see it as a neutral choice, though.


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## chimuelo (Apr 10, 2015)

Carson will have a job in the next administration just like Warren most likely agreed to stay out of the Liberal Coronation in return for a great paying gig.

I can't even remember the last time a Physician or regular citizen won an election.
All he is doing is stirring the coals and probably be better served having him fix what's terribly wrong in the ACA bill.
Repeal is not an option, only used to scare the Sheep, just like blacks being lynched, etc. the usual Liberal tactics of keeping their "voters" under their thumb.

He isn't the type of guy who knows diplomacy, which is appealing, but the men of and women of God would spend too much time proving their faith in decisions where God isn't really applicable.

As far as someone who knows the wasteful time Doctors and Medical professionals have to suffer with filling out forms instead of treating patients, his usefulness will come in the way of tweaks to another pathetically run Government program.
At least let him clean up the VA and remove the useless Union/Liberal "staffers" and "reps" who soak taxpayers for cash while our vets wait months for treatment promised.


----------



## chimuelo (Apr 10, 2015)

So many Federal Agencies have become useless as campaign donors kids become "directors" or have jobs created for them that are not needed.
Secret Service in the last 6 years under this administration is a joke, ATF is out of hand raiding Guitar manufacturers, EPA is on the war path but great for Liberal NAT Gas shareholders, Coal is so bad shareholders are jumping ship, but so many agencies from the GSA, to take your pick that are worthless under Liberal "appointees".
Jeez even 2 Asian Ambassadors are being targeted. The Ambassador appointees are the most embarrassing foreign policy decisions I remember.
All you got to do is give some Liberal money and buy a position, no language, history or job skills needed.
No wonder our allies have palms to their faces right now.

The sad reality is we only get a choice of 2 in the end game, both hand picked and financed by the worlds wealthiest people.
Until the popular vote is returned to the people it's a rigged game, where Sheep are allowed the scraps.

Nothing new here, just shut up and vote, your free treats might come before the 4th year so you can vote again....


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## NYC Composer (Apr 10, 2015)

Chim, do you think being gay is a personal choice? Do you think that's a prevailing view among surgeons?


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## chimuelo (Apr 10, 2015)

I like chicks so I am not well enough informed to have an opinion.
But if a man seeks penetration or a women prefers the women do the penetrating big deal
Never saw why politicians considered this a platform to run on.
I was one of the few men who wanted to bang chicks in the showroom
Gay folks are fun to work with. I just dont have a desire to bang dudes.
But maybe that might change.
If so then I will grab a sign and demand justice or legal penetration laws.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 10, 2015)

So, at any moment you might choose penis, cause this is 'merica. Then you'll fight for your new rights. Got it.


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## chimuelo (Apr 10, 2015)

It worked for Liberals like Clinton, Kerry and Obama.
Remember they wanted to "DENY" a person the choice.
I never had the chance to even have a voice or a vote on the issue, 
which is why I think the wealthiest white Liberals should continue 
leading the way forward.

I am so glad that Liberals finally allowed the young women and men shot by the terrorist at Ft. Hood 
to finally receive benefits instead of treating such a terrorist attack as "workplace violence."
At least they are starting to realize why Americans are dismissing them en masse.

Never too late to be for something you were once against.
Thanks to the polls, we do have a chance forward.
If it weren't for twitter or facebook how would we ever handle our lives...?


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## NYC Composer (Apr 10, 2015)

chimuelo @ Fri Apr 10 said:


> It worked for Liberals like Clinton, Kerry and Obama.
> Remember they wanted to "DENY" a person the choice.
> I never had the chance to even have a voice or a vote on the issue,
> which is why I think the wealthiest white Liberals should continue
> ...



Dude, you could turn a discussion about dental floss into a treatise about why only sheep would use it, led around by J &J and other sheepherding pharmas as they are.

Dr Carson basically thinks being gay is a choice and against his religion. As a private citizen, I think that's his right, though we disagree. As a potential President, I think it would be important for him to see the parallels between the struggle for gay rights in the same light as the struggle for civil rights was once seen. I don't think this train is going to go backwards.


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## chimuelo (Apr 10, 2015)

Which is why he can only win if the Sheep of Jesus are led into his pastures.

So yes, it comes down to Sheep again.

Larry there's only 3 kinds of people in the world.
Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs.




AARRRFFF............!!!!!


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## NYC Composer (Apr 10, 2015)

chimuelo @ Fri Apr 10 said:


> Which is why he can only win if the Sheep of Jesus are led into his pastures.
> 
> So yes, it comes down to Sheep again.
> 
> ...



Heh- you're a Corgi!


----------



## JonFairhurst (Apr 10, 2015)

chimuelo @ Fri Apr 10 said:


> As far as someone who knows the wasteful time Doctors and Medical professionals have to suffer with filling out forms instead of treating patients...



If the goal is to reduce paperwork for doctors, we should have implemented single-payer "Hillary-care" rather than the insurance-based ACA. Of course, the anti-government crowd (let alone the insurance lobbyists) would never support it.

Years ago, I was in Montreux (Smoke on the Water) Switzerland, where I developed a sinus infection. Fearing that my head would burst on the flight home, I visited a doctor.

To my surprise, there were no lines, no forms, and no charge. I also got no prescriptions and no antibiotics. The doc gave me a list of items including a decongestant, nasal spray, something to add to boiling water for stream breathing sessions, a regimen to follow, and directions to the nearest pharmacy. The drugs cost about $20. Within a few days, my sinuses were clear and I flew home with my head intact.

So the irony is that a government-run, universal program is less bureaucratic, more efficient, and more healthy (no antibiotics!) than the private system that we all "enjoy".

But you won't hear that from an idealog like Ben Carson.


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## chimuelo (Apr 10, 2015)

Totally agree JF.

ACA is great for pre existing conditions, and parents with kids who have a College degree that drive for Uber, and need Mom and Dad until they're 26.

Other than that the Insurance CEOs salaries are excellent, have you checked out how great they're doing...?

This year their gravy train ends as the 1,000,000 USD risk pool ends, now tax payers no longer have to bail them out.

Also coming is the employer mandate, so no more uncertainty. They now know their faced with lay offs and higher operating costs, great for folks trying to score a job in this part time economy we hear is doing so good... =o 

The Fed Chair Woman knows this too well, and refuses to raise interest rates as the uncertainty of this colossal 2500 page law will hit the pockets of all working folks this year. 

The GOP will be left with a mess just like they handed to Obama.

With any luck they will screw up and we can get rid of them too....

Single Payer is the very best way forward, always was before Liberals decided to be partners with those they demonized.
Health Care + a Wage Increase for all Americans,.......whoever gets there first wins the next decade.


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## chimuelo (Jun 11, 2015)

FWIW I just finished reading Dr. Carsons book.
Too bad only affluent black kids will hear about him in private schools.
I just dont see our union/liberal day care centers pushing his beliefs or contributions as they go against liberal theology.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 11, 2015)

Were those the same liberals who set up programs he benefited from? That helped create opportunity fir him?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 11, 2015)

Liberal theology. There's no such thing.

Ben Carson is a jackass.


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## G.R. Baumann (Jun 12, 2015)

Meanwhile on the beach.... real switches are being "force flicked" to shape a very sheepish future in deed. Transpacific and Transatlantic treaties and others are "negotiated" - Negotiated my arse! It's is the same old you are with us or you are against us game! - behind closed doors so the sheep would not start growing teeth.

First there was the global heist from 2008 to date and preparing the stage for things to come, the curtain for act two just started to lift....

For a better understanding, one has to follow the four major global chains, finance, food, water and energy, simpleton! Economically speaking, real workers wages are back to the level of the 60s while productivity growth and wealth increase are exclusively distributed to a miniscule percentage of the population, so for the rest it is stagnation or decline, and on top they get onto each others throat, steered by mainstream media campaigns.

Bottom line, it is the final act of a neo liberal assault against the entire population.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 12, 2015)

I'm too damn old to be a neo-anything.


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## gbar (Jun 12, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Jun 11 said:


> Liberal theology. There's no such thing.
> 
> Ben Carson is a jackass.



lol true dat.

Other than being this season's token/human shield for the GOP (see, we can't have any bigots or racists in our party because Ben), he's got a long history as a huckster pitching quack herbal cures for Manatech, among other things.

No principles other than self-enrichment are involved, as far as I can tell. He's just out there to monetize on being a "black republican".


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## chimuelo (Jun 12, 2015)

Not my choice for a President but sure wish Medical experts could have been present when this partership/bail out diaster called the ACA was written by wealthy white Liberals.

I understand having a black conservative with decades of experience with red tape and waste
Wouldn't serve CEOs and Liberal self enrichment very well. But maybe the next winners can take advantage of such knowledgable folks.

Also the trade agreements are based on a strategy that leaves out China.
Not very wise using trade as a tool of revenge for supporting N.Korea and continued theft of western intellectual property.

But the more we find out the more I start leaning to agree with Obama again.
I already admire the way he has Arab whackos divided and killing each other. His policies have far surpassed the deaths of our adversairies under Conservative Hawks.

Even their strategy of pulling back the Police has seen black on black murder rates soar to historical levels. Sad that innocents must die during these Liberal causes but the end results are bsd guys dying at double and triple the rate when facist hispanic white black and Asian police were frisking suspects.

So after these successful Liberal policies expire we can see the results are what counts. Not the sublime messages in sermons by Liberal Theologists.


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