# StaffPad - good investment for newbie?



## pixelcrave

For those who have StaffPad (or similar tools) but a self learner (meaning, you didn't have a formal music education or had minimal knowledge of notation reading/writing) — how much has this tool helped or accelerated your learning experience?

For context, I've only gotten into composing last year, have been mostly using DAW, and mostly playing by ear. Tools like StaffPad interest me because I'd think it would allow me to learn by doing and immediately hear/see the results. But I may underestimate the potentially steep learning curve considering I didn't have a formal music background.

Appreciate your thoughts in advance. Cheers,
Ivan


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## Markrs

pixelcrave said:


> For those who have StaffPad (or similar tools) but a self learner (meaning, you didn't have a formal music education or had minimal knowledge of notation reading/writing) — how much has this tool helped or accelerated your learning experience?
> 
> For context, I've only gotten into composing last year, have been mostly using DAW, and mostly playing by ear. Tools like StaffPad interest me because I'd think it would allow me to learn by doing and immediately hear/see the results. But I may underestimate the potentially steep learning curve considering I didn't have a formal music background.
> 
> Appreciate your thoughts in advance. Cheers,
> Ivan


I have been using Notion on iOS and enjoyed the different experience to using a DAW and decided to make the leap to Staffpad whilst the sale is on. I am a true beginner having only just started getting into all of this a year ago.

Marshall Shaw has lots of videos on using Staffpad


There are some great videos on orchestration and harmony that are demonstrated in notation from:

@ryanleachmusic


https://www.youtube.com/user/rwmleach



Pete Calandra








Pete Calandra Music


Peter Calandra is a New York City-based Composer, Keyboard Player and Guitarist. He has scored over 80 films and written over 2000 compositions for TV broadc...




www.youtube.com





@A.Heppelmann (who I get lessons from)


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJWO0LbqJp-zsX7PceIQkFA



Alan Belkin








Alan Belkin


Music of Alan Belkin; online courses by Alan Belkin.




www.youtube.com


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## pixelcrave

Thanks @Markrs — this is super helpful reference, I'll check them out! I remember you and I are in similar state (experience-wise), so I trust your recommendations!  Yeah, I noticed your thread on StaffPad sales and that's what made me consider getting it... I have a few more days but most likely will get it. Thanks again man!

Cheers


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## Markrs

pixelcrave said:


> Thanks @Markrs — this is super helpful reference, I'll check them out! I remember you and I are in similar state (experience-wise), so I trust your recommendations!  Yeah, I noticed your thread on StaffPad sales and that's what made me consider getting it... I have a few more days but most likely will get it. Thanks again man!
> 
> Cheers


I have a lot of saved YouTube playlists on music theory as well if you were looking for that of content. All of those are demonstrated in notation.


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## Montisquirrel

I make music since many many years, but dived into theory just some years go and started learning writing music with pen and paper just a few month ago, because my goal is to be able to write music without any instruments or DAWs.
My biggest help so far: Scoreclub.net + Staffpad (with some 3rd party sounds)


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## Markrs

Just rembered that @gh0stwrit3r has some very good videos on using Staffpad mixed with theory and orchestration.



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiXR-psBd7-92pzmIjbyoPA


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## pixelcrave

Montisquirrel said:


> My biggest help so far: Scoreclub.net + Staffpad (with some 3rd party sounds)


Ah yes, Scoreclub is on my periphery to look into as well at some point!




Markrs said:


> Just rembered that @gh0stwrit3r has some very good videos on using Staffpad mixed with theory and orchestration.


I think I may have put this in my "watch later" playlist but may have forgotten. Thanks for reminding!


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## blakeklondike

Great thread! I got Notion to be able to use pen to input notes-- does staffpad do anything differently/better?


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## mopsiflopsi

I probably would have given up by now if it wasn’t for StaffPad. For a beginner imo it’s a far better investment than any DAW / VST library out there.


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## Saxer

I think this "formal music education" thing is overrated. Sure you need music theory and knowledge about orchestration and all that but everybody starts without it. And you don't have to be "ready" to compose. You are never ready.

StaffPad is great to try out things. Write some chords and listen to the result. Copy the notes to other sections. It's fun.


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## sundrowned

It's a great learning tool. Especially combined with score study or other notation based study. Staffpad + scoreclub (or something similar) imo is probably one of the best ways to learn.


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## mopsiflopsi

blakeklondike said:


> Great thread! I got Notion to be able to use pen to input notes-- does staffpad do anything differently/better?


I started with Notion too. StaffPad is a lot better in terms removing the friction between you and the tech. It’s got way better libraries too.


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## PhilA

All I can say as a long time dabbler who has always played by ear and avoided traditional music conventions (I grew up as a punk in UK 80’s 2nd wave hardcore era!) learning theory and the language of music for the past 6 months puts me squarely in the a little knowledge is a dangerous thing beginner category. For me StaffPad is a revelation for both learning about and writing new music. I’ve taken a punt of the first month of ScoreClub too, so I’m in for a steep learning curve. As a long term IT pro getting away from a ‘reminds me of the day job’ mouse and computer method of ‘writing’ music with an -albeit digital- pencil and paper is a revelation.
Learning curve? Yeah sure of course there is one, maybe as I’m not ingrained in a way of doing things yet I’m taking to it easier than a seasoned Finale/Sibalius user, who knows.
PS I haven’t bought any extra Libraries yet (there is still time


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## pixelcrave

PhilA said:


> All I can say as a long time dabbler who has always played by ear and avoided traditional music conventions (I grew up as a punk in UK 80’s 2nd wave hardcore era!) learning theory and the language of music for the past 6 months puts me squarely in the a little knowledge is a dangerous thing beginner category. For me StaffPad is a revelation for both learning about and writing new music.



This is very encouraging to hear for me. Thanks for sharing your experience! Cheers!


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## Braveheart

As a beginner, take also a good look at Notion app. It‘s a lot less expensive, and it may be enough for your needs right now. For composing, than working in a DAW, it’s crazy spending hundreds of dollars for an app where you won’t likely get the final version there. All sounds bundle for Notion is peanuts in comparison.

I am considering Staffpad, as I have Microsoft Surface 3 (not pro), but I’m not sure it will bring more than what I currently have in Studio One 5 Pro, the endless sample libraries I own, and Notion that I own both for PC and iPad.


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## pixelcrave

Braveheart said:


> As a beginner, take also a good look at Notion app. It‘s a lot less expensive, and it may be enough for your needs right now. For composing, than working in a DAW, it’s crazy spending hundreds of dollars for an app where you won’t likely get the final version there. All sounds bundle for Notion is peanuts in comparison.


Yes, indeed, I was looking at Notion too when @Markrs mentioned it. In my case, even if I end up getting StaffPad, I don't intend to purchase additional libraries anyway and just use the stock ones. My main goal of getting pen-based notation tool is purely for learning purpose. So I'd still rely on my main DAW for actual production. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!


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## Markrs

Braveheart said:


> As a beginner, take also a good look at Notion app. It‘s a lot less expensive, and it may be enough for your needs right now. For composing, than working in a DAW, it’s crazy spending hundreds of dollars for an app where you won’t likely get the final version there. All sounds bundle for Notion is peanuts in comparison.
> 
> I am considering Staffpad, as I have Microsoft Surface 3 (not pro), but I’m not sure it will bring more than what I currently have in Studio One 5 Pro, the endless sample libraries I own, and Notion that I own both for PC and iPad.


I used Notion as well before getting Staffpad and I think it is really nice but now I am using staffpad I much prefer it and even the default Notion sounds are better. 

Remember with Notion you have to pay for the app, handwriting extension and some of the libraries. When you add them up it does get closer to the current Staffpad price using stock sounds.


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## Markrs

pixelcrave said:


> Yes, indeed, I was looking at Notion too when @Markrs mentioned it. In my case, even if I end up getting StaffPad, I don't intend to purchase additional libraries anyway and just use the stock ones. My main goal of getting pen-based notation tool is purely for learning purpose. So I'd still rely on my main DAW for actual production. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!


I think using just the stock sounds for now is the right approach, as now we have had the first summer sale, there will be others. I decided to get the Berlin Series but paying for it did make feel a bit sick as it was a _lot_ of money that is tied to iOS. The reason I have done that is I love the idea of composing anywhere.


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## Loïc D

Sorry to hijack the thread : do you have a recommendation in hubs to hook at the the iPad (2020 USB3 here, not Thunderbolt M1) ?
My needs are mostly : usb A + phone jack + hdmi.
I keep receiving offers from Hyper, don't know if the brand is good.


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## pixelcrave

Loïc D said:


> Sorry to hijack the thread : do you have a recommendation in hubs to hook at the the iPad (2020 USB3 here, not Thunderbolt M1) ?
> My needs are mostly : usb A + phone jack + hdmi.
> I keep receiving offers from Hyper, don't know if the brand is good.


This is what I got for myself a year ago for my 2019 iPad Pro. I haven't used it much but I've purchased a few items by Anker (charger, another USB hub) with no problem. I have heard mixed opinions about Hyper (from friends).


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## blakeklondike

Markrs said:


> I think using just the stock sounds for now is the right approach, as now we have had the first summer sale, there will be others. I decided to get the Berlin Series but paying for it did make feel a bit sick as it was a _lot_ of money that is tied to iOS. The reason I have done that is I love the idea of composing anywhere.


Have you bought 3rd party libraries for use with Notion too? I know there is some degree of integration for VSL and some others— Curious re: what they bring to the table. Haven’t invested in full expansions for Notion, but am noticing limitations on articulations/instrument sounds included for iOS.


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## Markrs

blakeklondike said:


> Have you bought 3rd party libraries for use with Notion too? I know there is some degree of integration for VSL and some others— Curious re: what they bring to the table. Haven’t invested in full expansions for Notion, but am noticing limitations on articulations/instrument sounds included for iOS.


 With notion I just use the sounds that come with it.


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## emilio_n

Sorry to re-open the conversation here with something maybe a little bit off-topic but as I am in the beginner boat as some of you (trying to join several notes with sense) I think you can help me with this.
Is there any "helping-mode" on Staffpad to check very basic things like the name of the note in less common clefs? I am more or less comfortable with the treble and bass clef but beyond that, I spend a lot of time "counting" the lines to know what note I am writing. 

Maybe this is too basic and the only way to learn it is by writing. What tricks do you use if you are not proficient in reading the notes?
Sorry if this is a very stupid question. I bought Staffpad but I didn't use it too much yet...


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## Markrs

emilio_n said:


> Sorry to re-open the conversation here with something maybe a little bit off-topic but as I am in the beginner boat as some of you (trying to join several notes with sense) I think you can help me with this.
> Is there any "helping-mode" on Staffpad to check very basic things like the name of the note in less common clefs? I am more or less comfortable with the treble and bass clef but beyond that, I spend a lot of time "counting" the lines to know what note I am writing.
> 
> Maybe this is too basic and the only way to learn it is by writing. What tricks do you use if you are not proficient in reading the notes?
> Sorry if this is a very stupid question. I bought Staffpad but I didn't use it too much yet...


Hope this helps


On the Treble Clef C5 is on the 2nd line down.
C4 is one line below Treble Clef and one line above Bass Clef
On the Bass Clef C3 is on the 3rd line down.
On the Alto Clef C4 is in the centre of the curly brackets. It is also _in_ the 3rd line down
On the Tenor Clef C4 is in the centre of the curly brackets. It is also _in_ the 2nd line down
The notes are often in similar positions, even if they are different octaves. 

In the case of the Alto C4 it is 1/2 step down from C5 on the Treble Clef.
In the case of the Tenor C4 it is 1/2 a step up from C5 on the Treble Clef


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## mopsiflopsi

Also if you write in a scale that has a single sharp or flat (like D minor), the position of the sharp/flat can help you orient yourself. E.g “oh this is a b flat so one below it must be A”. Over time you won’t need these tricks though, it’ll just come naturally.


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## Montisquirrel

emilio_n said:


> Sorry to re-open the conversation here with something maybe a little bit off-topic but as I am in the beginner boat as some of you (trying to join several notes with sense) I think you can help me with this.
> Is there any "helping-mode" on Staffpad to check very basic things like the name of the note in less common clefs? I am more or less comfortable with the treble and bass clef but beyond that, I spend a lot of time "counting" the lines to know what note I am writing.
> 
> Maybe this is too basic and the only way to learn it is by writing. What tricks do you use if you are not proficient in reading the notes?
> Sorry if this is a very stupid question. I bought Staffpad but I didn't use it too much yet...


Maybe thats not what you want, but you can always cheat in Staffpad and change the clef, for example change Viola from Alto to Bass clef...


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## emilio_n

Markrs said:


> Hope this helps


Thanks Marks! Very handly!


mopsiflopsi said:


> Also if you write in a scale that has a single sharp or flat (like D minor), the position of the sharp/flat can help you orient yourself. E.g “oh this is a b flat so one below it must be A”. Over time you won’t need these tricks though, it’ll just come naturally.


Yes, looks the best and maybe the only way to make it natural is the practice. 


Montisquirrel said:


> Maybe thats not what you want, but you can always cheat in Staffpad and change the clef, for example change Viola from Alto to Bass clef...


I think this trick will be quite useful until I am familiar with all the clef.

I have some games on the mobile to practice sight-reading... 10 min per day is good exercise. when I studied piano centuries ago, I used the classic notation, (Do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-si-do) and the chords on the "modern" (C-D-E...) SO I think my mind needs to make an extra step to translate from one to another. :-D


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## Karmand

As a first time user of Staffpad, it's incredible. I never knew about it till I read on VI about it and since it's on sale, I picked it up and a new iPad on Friday. 
Here's the first one:  - 
I've not written for a long time, so I'm not a beginner at music, but I am a nUBI at this midi orchestration and cinema music since I started this year.
I recommend it, I enjoy learning all about music, instruments, ranges, orchestration, counterpoint, harmony etc... this is just IMHO.


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## Bman70

Karmand said:


> As a first time user of Staffpad, it's incredible. I never knew about it till I read on VI about it and since it's on sale, I picked it up and a new iPad on Friday.
> Here's the first one:  -
> I've not written for a long time, so I'm not a beginner at music, but I am a nUBI at this midi orchestration and cinema music since I started this year.
> I recommend it, I enjoy learning all about music, instruments, ranges, orchestration, counterpoint, harmony etc... this is just IMHO.



are those just the stock sounds within Staffpad, or in-app purchases?


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## Karmand

@Bman70 These are Spitfire Chamber Strings, CineStrings, Spitfire Woods and built in free classical guitar. I've not explored much more. I can't put this writing tool down - so quick and easy to work some things out. I will export this into Logic, record my real classical guitar track, improvise little to make it more interesting.
I highly recommend getting this tool.
Cheers.


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