# Your go-to drum kit libraries



## fustrun (Jun 8, 2018)

Hey all!

Anything interesting except Addictive drums or EZdrummer?
I want to do mostly electronic kicks and percussion sounds, or good flexible sources to work with.

Thank in advance!


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## stfciu (Jun 8, 2018)

I find Drumlab as an interesting alternative for tweaking electronic organic sounds.


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## MarcusD (Jun 8, 2018)

Not found a "go to" as such, but I like using: Slate Drums, AD2, NI Drums & SD2.0.

Find myself using AD2 and NI stuff the most though.

DM307 is also awesome.


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## vintagevibe (Jun 8, 2018)

AD2 is my go to and Slate is my second for acoustic kits. BUT if I want either percussion or electronic kits it’s Groive Agent 4 alll the way!


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## Henu (Jun 8, 2018)

For acoustic kits, SD3 + various expansions. Haven't found anything close to that, really. I do electronic stuff very rarely so I cannot comment on that side.


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## LHall (Jun 8, 2018)

Since I got Superior 3 that's pretty much my default.


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## dariusofwest (Jun 8, 2018)

I end up recording live drummers most of the time, but for sketching/projects with no budget, I use EZDrummer2. About to start looking for a new drum library though as I'm a bit tired of the sound :D


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## Fab (Jun 8, 2018)

SD3 isn't really for electronic drums though, for electronic drums I would also check out NI; recently they did this reaktor based instrument for electronic drums which has great randomization features.


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## Kuusniemi (Jun 8, 2018)

I most often dig up That Sounds' Mammoth kit: https://www.iwantthatsound.com/mammoth/ Very usable and great sounding.


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## wst3 (Jun 8, 2018)

one goto drum library - inconceivable!

When I want the best, most accurate, most detailed drum track, and I'm willing to work for it I use Superior Drummer 2 - haven't really felt the need to update to 3 yet. The detail in these libraries is awesome. The amount of work to get a great track is a little much, but sometimes that's what you want, or need.

When I just want to have a great sounding drummer, and I need to work quickly I use RealiDrums. It sounds a lot better than it has any right to, and the built in grooves sound really good. Using the complexity slider(s) I can usually bang out a good drum track in just a few minutes. I can hear the difference. but I doubt most casual listeners could, and even if they could I doubt they'd care. Makes one wonder why one sweats the details with a tool like DFHS2! Oh, yeah, because it matters to me!

There is another, seldom praised library I turn to when neither of these is doing the trick - StudioCat's Purrfect Drums. Not even sure he is still selling it, but dang, it sounds great and is really flexible.

I have played around with the drum libraries that came in Komplete 9, and they sound good, really good, but they lack the detail of DFHS2, and require nearly as much effort to use, so I don't use them often. What I do like about them is they are very genre specific and accurate.

And when I want to do electronic stuff (happens more often lately) I use Battery. I used to use, and love FXPansion DR-008, and there are things about it that I miss, but it is no longer supported. At least I can still use the kits<G>!

Last product of note - Rayzoon Jamstix is a fantastic tool for putting the finishing touches on a drum track. I'm still using the last version, really need to find time to upgrade to see what v4 brings.


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## axb312 (Jun 8, 2018)

Perfect drummer. Sounds better than superior drummer to me. Tweakable for a more natural sound. 

Interested to know the best option for electronic drums though...


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## Divico (Jun 9, 2018)

Superior drummer 2. Didnt upgrade to 3 yet. You can tweak the shit out of this plugin. I like to route each track and use my own plugins for mixing though.


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## fiestared (Jun 9, 2018)

fustrun said:


> Hey all!
> 
> Anything interesting except Addictive drums or EZdrummer?
> I want to do mostly electronic kicks and percussion sounds, or good flexible sources to work with.
> ...


As most of us I own so many libs, finally my favs are DM-307 and for real drums, still RMX sage user lib like loop loft, and my new fav, "RealiDrums", if you tweak it you've got incredible results.


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## keepitsimple (Jun 9, 2018)

As stated above me, Realidrums sounds fantastic with just a few tweaks here and there, mainly the built-in EQ.

For multiple round robins and "snobby" realism, Superior Drummer 3 is top right now (although i'm not a fan of the snares). The value of Superior Drummer 3 shows when you play it in real time on an Electronic kit and take advantage of all the nuances it hides beneath.

For electronic kits, i use my Korg Kronos.


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## DSmolken (Jun 9, 2018)

Electronic - Wave Alchemy stuff.

Acoustic drums - That Sound or Drumdrops.


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## ein fisch (Jun 9, 2018)

Definitely Wave Alchemy Revolution for electronic drum kits.


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## DSmolken (Jun 9, 2018)

Even Wave Alchemy's free stuff, like Tape 808 and the Tanzbar, is great.


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## Saxer (Jun 9, 2018)

Old but still fun for electronic drums and percussion:
https://soniccharge.com/microtonic
Check the patternarium too:
https://soniccharge.com/patternarium


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## Heizenhaus (Jun 9, 2018)

Worth mentioning is Soniccouture's Electro-Acoustic. Lot's of classic electronic sounds to choose from. Also includes the beat tools, which are fun to experiment with.

For acoustic stuff I like NI's Vintage and 50's Drummers, Addictive Drums with the Boutique Mallets and the often overlooked SONiVOX Tony Coleman Drums.


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## Kuusniemi (Jun 9, 2018)

Heizenhaus said:


> Worth mentioning is Soniccouture's Electro-Acoustic. Lot's of classic electronic sounds to choose from. Also includes the beat tools, which are fun to experiment with.



While this in mentioned one should also mention Konkrete.


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## D Halgren (Jun 9, 2018)

How come no one ever mentions BFD3? It's excellent, and has 8bit Kit for electro/acoustic stuff. Like @Kuusniemi said, Konkrete is also great!


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## J-M (Jun 9, 2018)

When I want to make the snare sound like it slams you in the face - GetGoodDrums Matt Halpern pack.


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## fustrun (Jun 9, 2018)

Thank you guys for all the great suggestions! will check these out!


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## Sears Poncho (Jun 9, 2018)

Abbey Road 80s.


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## bap_la_so_1 (Jun 9, 2018)

For tight fast metal stuff, i use GGD
AD2 when i need more ambiance, the rooms sound very good
Storm dru 3 for ethnic and epic stuffs


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## pderbidge (Jun 9, 2018)

A lot of great stuff out there that I don't have but I think my needs are covered by:

Acoustic: AD2 and EZdrummer
Non acoustic: Battery4, Breaktweaker, Stylus RMX (can also do acoustic)

For layering big drum sounds: Apocalypse Percussion.


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## ChazC (Jun 9, 2018)

BFD3 (been using it since 1.5). Always my go-to for an acoustic kit VI. I’ve never failed to get the exact sound I was after with it. The interface looks horrible though, hopefully they’ll do a better job with v4. For drum replacement I use Trigger2 and Slate’s SSD4, usually the Blackbird samples.

For electronic stuff I’ve been using Arturia’s Spark2 for a while now but I just bought a TR-8S as I really miss programming an actual hardware unit - can still load my beloved Linn samples into it as well.


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## kavinsky (Jun 9, 2018)

bap_la_so_1 said:


> For tight fast metal stuff, i use GGD
> AD2 when i need more ambiance, the rooms sound very good
> Storm dru 3 for ethnic and epic stuffs


Thats really odd. I always found that the rooms in AD2 were its weakest point. too overprocessed and small
I guess its just a taste thing


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## re-peat (Jun 10, 2018)

Drumlibrary-wise, *Mixosaurus* remains unsurpassed for me (and it’ll probably stay that way), but there’s no point in recommending this library as it’s, sadly, no longer available.
Of the ones that are available, the White Kit and the Blue Kit from *Handheld’s MAD RocknFunk* bundle are my current first choices. Slightly less convenient to work with than, say, a Toontrack kit, but to my ears, definitely more satisfying as a believable virtual drum kit. (Most Toontrack kits, and most other drumlibraries for that matter, are let down, I find, by poor and/or insufficient hi-hat and cymbal samples. Not so the Handhelds.)

Made a little demo for each of these kits: here’s the *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/Examples/Handheld/HHMad_TheWhiteKit.mp3 (White)*, and this is the *http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/Examples/Handheld/HHMad_TheBlueKit.mp3 (Blue)*.


Also good: *Chocolate Audio’s Contemporary Vintage* collection. Very versatile and powerful package.
Which can also be said about *PremierSounds’ Drumtree*, a bundle that can’t be ignored if you’re interested in emulating drumsounds from the 40’s up to the 70’s.

And some clever developer really ought to (buy the rights and) do something intelligent and musical with the old-but-sensationally-good Sampleheadz *Peter Erskine Living Drums* samples (not the same thing as VirtualErskine expansion for BFD), for my taste still a reference for how acoustic drums should be sampled.

A grrrrreat freebie — noticeably better in fact than many a commercial library — is the *Sennheiser DrumMic’a*.

_


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## DSmolken (Jun 10, 2018)

What about brushes? I ended up making my own to get a snare that worked the way I thought it should.


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## Eckoes (Jun 10, 2018)

BFD3 and NI Abbey Road 60’s Drummer are my favorites.

Apart from electronic stuff there is really nothing those two can’t do, seems to me.


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## Nao Gam (Jun 10, 2018)

DSmolken said:


> What about brushes? I ended up making my own to get a snare that worked the way I thought it should.


Soniccouture has a free brush kit for kontakt but I haven't downloaded it


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## KarlHeinz (Jun 10, 2018)

In case of free drumkits: this is really one of my favourites:

https://www.powerdrumkit.de/

It is not very versatile but if you need a quick finished rock drum sound for to go....


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## sinkd (Jun 10, 2018)

DSmolken said:


> What about brushes? I ended up making my own to get a snare that worked the way I thought it should.


Check out Straight Ahead Samples Brush and Mallets


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## DSmolken (Jun 10, 2018)

Thanks; since I've made by own (Swirly Drums), I'm not necessarily in the market for more, but I do like Impact's reissue of SAS' horns. I'll take a closer look at their brushes demo to see how they got the snare brushes implemented.


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## Brian Nowak (Jun 10, 2018)

If you're looking for electronic drums it's worth checking out Wave Alchemy Evolution if you're into the whole samples thing. The thing about their samples is they're not processed heavily - in some cases not at all. So it leaves you plenty of room to adjust things to your mix. 

Granted, I'm not much of a samples kind of guy. I just spent the time learning to create electronic percussion sounds from scratch.


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## R. Soul (Jun 10, 2018)

For a cheap and cheerful electronic drum library Super macho drumz from Plugin guru is pretty good.


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## sostenuto (Jun 10, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> For a cheap and cheerful electronic drum library Super macho drumz from Plugin guru is pretty good.



Even better now with current 'new' Drumz Urban Kits expansion @ Intro $29. 
SuperMacho Drumz K5.6 is $69, but frequent sales discounting by 30%, sometimes a bit more.

BTW …. _Both require Kontakt 5.6 or later PLUS you must own SuperMacho Drumz drum kit library to run Urban Add-on.._


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## R. Soul (Jun 10, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Even better now with current 'new' Drumz Urban Kits expansion @ Intro $29.
> SuperMacho Drumz K5.6 is $69, but frequent sales discounting by 30%, sometimes a bit more.
> 
> BTW …. _Both require Kontakt 5.6 or later PLUS you must own SuperMacho Drumz drum kit library to run Urban Add-on.._


Oh, I didn't know about that one.
Will check ASAP ​


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## WindcryMusic (Jun 10, 2018)

NI Studio Drummer is still my main go-to when I need a standard drum kit (which isn’t very often). I’m a bit surprised to not see it mentioned by anyone else, and am wondering why.


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## Sunny Fable (Jun 10, 2018)

Since Superior Drummer 3, there is this library, and the rest.


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## Robo Rivard (Jun 10, 2018)

I don't do any electronica, but for acoustical drumkit, Superior Drummer 3 really is a game changer. So much better than the previous versions! I even build kits using only the cymbals, to use on non-pop/rock compositions... The MIDI Packs are also wonderful.


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## CGR (Jun 10, 2018)

Always enjoy the quick results I get with Loops de la Creme Double Cream Drums. Great tone, well sampled & scripted and achieves its purpose in an uncomplicated & elegant fashion:
http://www.loopsdelacreme.com/kontakt-libraries/


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## bap_la_so_1 (Jun 12, 2018)

kavinsky said:


> Thats really odd. I always found that the rooms in AD2 were its weakest point. too overprocessed and small
> I guess its just a taste thing


I think the Fairfax room sounds pretty good
I also consider getting NI studio drummer since they are recorded in teldex. It may suit the sound from Berlin orchestra which i use more


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## NYC Composer (Jun 12, 2018)

I think NI studio drummer is pretty good for a crisp, no-nonsense sound.


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## seaofwine (Jun 12, 2018)

And what about a nice clean brushes jazzy kit? As many mentioned SD3 supremacy, does it has anything like that or Addictive jazz kit is still the best one? The worst thing with SD3 is that you have to buy a 130G thing and you might like just one setup of all this, or am I wrong?

Anyway, The most clean and naturally recorded drums for me had always been the Larry Seyer's Acoustic Drums Library, a .gig format library that I think unfortunately is discontinued. For those who know "in person" the sound of a studio drum kit they must agree that Larry Seyers reached the hilltop!


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## BezO (Jun 12, 2018)

AD2 is my go to, NI kits fill in the gaps.

I have BFD 1.5, loved it when I used it. Updated and re-did my set up adding the plugins above and never upgraded BFD. I'm happy enough with those that the extra work required with BFD didn't seem worth it.


kavinsky said:


> Thats really odd. I always found that the rooms in AD2 were its weakest point. too overprocessed and small
> I guess its just a taste thing


I'm working on a tune now using only the room & OHs, going for flavor as much as size & depth. This extreme is rare for me but it's usually the room mics polishing off my sound.


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## MaxOctane (Jun 12, 2018)

iwantthatsound.com is having a sale, a different set of libs every day this week. I’m a big fan.


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## kavinsky (Jun 12, 2018)

Sunny Fable said:


> Since Superior Drummer 3, there is this library, and the rest.





seaofwine said:


> As many mentioned SD3 supremacy


They are just marketing victims, its just a library and it has many flaws just as anything else out there.
People mostly praise it just because its the most recent one and because it features a nice new shiny GUI, not because they compared it to others.

personally I find it to be barely usable for my needs. 
the room is just too big and it impossible to get that mid-sized smack out of it. Its just my taste I guess, but I don't like the room.
the shells sound nice, but I cant use it for that big rock drum sound. 

I like it when I need a completely dry sound though, its fine.
I find the hits lack some weight in the loudest dynamics layer. So its limited in this regard aswell.


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## Henu (Jun 12, 2018)

Blah, I call bullshit on that. As a composer, producer and a mixing engineer I can say there is a TON what you _can_ do with SD3 and way less you can't. You could already pretty much do all that in SD2 already, but SD3 is way more versatile and packs way more details than any of the competitors at the moment. And I've used plenty of "those others" as well.

You can use the in-the-box sound if you want to, but it has it's limits. The best results come when you treat it like you would treat a normal acoustic kit: 3rd party plugins, proper mixing and even sample replacing or layering. The cymbal/ HH- section is already what is worth the price alone IMO, and the raw sounds are very good for constructing the kit needed for your session. And naturally, nothing in the world forbids you to use another library for, say, that snare you just couldn't get out of the raw samples.

The technology is alreayd "there" and SD3 is currently the most versatile and realistic- sounding drum VST in the market if you ask me. The next question is, how much are we trying in order to take advantage on that technology?


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## artomatic (Jun 12, 2018)

Electronic drums? Try Toontrack's "Electronic EZX".

https://www.toontrack.com/product/electronic-ezx/


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## jmauz (Jun 12, 2018)

I've been a session drummer for over 20 years. Over the last 6 years or so I've programmed more tracks for clients using Superior Drummer than I have playing them live. Jazz, funk, country, folk, hard rock, heavy metal, you name it, I've done it. Would I rather do all of them live? Of course, but when someone asks me to produce drum tracks without a studio budget I have to compromise somehow. 

I've tried all of the major drumset libraries and no one comes close to SD in terms of sound quality, realism, ease of use and versatility. I use it every day; it's on thousands of tracks I've written.

EDIT: In terms of electronic drums, that's easy. Just use your favorite sampler/triggerer and start collecting samples. I prefer Battery but that's just because I've been using it for 10 years. It DOES come with a ton of stuff right out the box.


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## Henu (Jun 12, 2018)

+ 1 on Battery on electronics! (Ok, ok.... when I'm lazy I just go with Groove Agent one. :D )


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## kavinsky (Jun 12, 2018)

Henu said:


> Blah, I call bullshit on that.


I'm sorry but all of your points sound like slogans, not like arguments.



Henu said:


> As a composer, producer and a mixing engineer I can say.....
> SD3 is way more versatile and packs way more details than any of the competitors at the moment. And I've used plenty of "those others" as well.


No, its not any more detailed than competitors. It has around 40 samples per drum, which by today standards is not a lot. Roughly the same sample count as it was 10 years ago when SD2 was released.
Versatile? Nope, its recorded in a single huge-sized scoring stage. You can shorten the decay artificially but it won't sound like another room sadly.
If you really used "plenty of others" you should already know that. But yeah.

Room sound is half of the drum sound in some genres. If it doesn't work - you can't do crap about it. And please don't bother arguing - its a fact.



Henu said:


> You can use the in-the-box sound if you want to, but it has it's limits. The best results come when you treat it like you would treat a normal acoustic kit: 3rd party plugins, proper mixing and even sample replacing or layering. The cymbal/ HH- section is already what is worth the price alone IMO, and the raw sounds are very good for constructing the kit needed for your session. And naturally, nothing in the world forbids you to use another library for, say, that snare you just couldn't get out of the raw samples.


Again, processing/mixing is not the point here. We're talking about recorded material. You can tweak the sound all day, compressing the shit out of weak hits and gating the room, but in the end it would never sound like it was performed and recorded in another room with a more passionate player. It will never sound as expressive.
Same with sample replacement - its comletely irrelevant to our discussion



Henu said:


> The technology is alreayd "there" and SD3 is currently the most versatile and realistic- sounding drum VST in the market if you ask me. The next question is, how much are we trying in order to take advantage on that technology?


Again, some bold statements and no facts. Its all subjective

Its just another sample set, and not the most detailed - far from it.
It has its strong points and its applications, and it has its obvious cons.
The engine is nothing extraordinary aswell. It has a different approach to RR playback, but its nothing too crazy.

The UI is nice though. Almost makes it sound better haha

I'm not saying it can't do the job. Of course it can
But there are some older SD2 and competitors libs that are a lot more versatile in my opinion.


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## Henu (Jun 13, 2018)

I'm eager to hear what library is more versatile for "overall" acoustic drums than SD3. 

Sure, you can go all nuts with Slate stuff if you're into that sort of sound. And they usually have a great rock room sound. (On which topic btw, I naturally agree. The room is extremely important in some genres.) However, even though you personally don't like SD3's room for rock drums, I don't think it deserves such bashing.

I would also appreciate if you wouldn't think people are only using "slogans" if you disagree with them, implicating that they have no idea what they are talking about. I have experience on playing drums since the early 90's, have participated on at least hundred more or less commercial drum recording sessions as a producer or an engineer and have been personally using drum VST's (and sampled my own private drum libraries) since the early 2000's. And as said, SD3 is the first one which actually meets my needs as an allaround library for realistic, acoustic drums.


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## pderbidge (Jun 13, 2018)

I too would like to know what library is more versatile than SD3. I don't own SD3 but I do have EZD2 which was the first from toontrack to get an uplift with some pretty incredible composer focused tools. Once they added those same tools into SD3, and then some, it truly became a drum library that currently is way ahead of the pack right now. I've been waiting to see XLNAudio (I own AD2 and love it) and FXpansion come out with something to compete but I just haven't seen it yet. I hate to see just one developer have a monopoly (bad for all of us) but so far Toontrack seems to have the best feature, performance and price right now. This isn't to say that other drum libraries won't get you great results. I have, and use, AD2, Slate, EZD2 and some others and they all get some use but if I were to reccomend to someone new to the game it would definitely be EZD2 or SD3. 
For electronic drums, that's another story. If you like finger drumming then there's Maschine or Arturia SparkLE. If you like to sequence then I'd say Battery 4, Nerve, Spark 2 or Breaktweaker but there are other worthy considerations as well that I haven't tried that get good praise.


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## Sunny Fable (Jun 13, 2018)

Hey Kavinsky, I own SD2 and SD3, EZDrummer 1 and 2, SSD 4, AD2 (including almost all their add-ons), Battery 4, BFD 3, Spark 2, Maschine and many others. I'm not a marketing victim, I have a ton of comparisons, and overall, no other library yet is offering an all-in-one tool that is so versatile, either for composing, mixing with virtual drums. That's my opinion, not a slogan...


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## bap_la_so_1 (Jun 13, 2018)

I think all these high end libraries are all capable of delivering top notch samples and great features
It is just a matter of chosing what sounds/expansions/workflow that work for you


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## Lode_Runner (Jun 14, 2018)

Had a listen to Piet's demos of the MAD Drums and they sound incredibly detailed. Definitely made my short list. 

I'm curious to know if anyone's tried any of the Nashville Sampling Co. Libraries? They seem pitched at the Country music market, but the demos sound rock enough for my tastes (but demos can be deceptive, hence my asking).

Also curious if anyone's tried Rattly and Raw's Martin France Drums and Muletone Audio's Brazilian Series Drums?


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## procreative (Jun 14, 2018)

kavinsky said:


> Versatile? Nope, its recorded in a single huge-sized scoring stage. You can shorten the decay artificially but it won't sound like another room sadly.



Are you just talking about the stock library that it comes with? The new Bob Rock one sounds pretty flexible and has tons of ambient Mics to mess with. Especially if you like the Black album type drum sound...

They have plenty of other expansions and some are really quite dry.

While the NI stuff is "okay", setting up mapping and programming patterns is kack.

I actually really like the software as an environment to program drums and wish they would do some orchestral/cinematic stuff as I find using a keyboard to program drums counter-intuitive and too many percussion libraries are set up like instruments.

To my ears though too many drum libraries go for that pingy snare sound, the only one that does not is the Music City/Nashville one.


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## DSmolken (Jun 14, 2018)

Lode_Runner said:


> I'm curious to know if anyone's tried any of the Nashville Sampling Co. Libraries? They seem pitched at the Country music market, but the demos sound rock enough for my tastes (but demos can be deceptive, hence my asking).


Also very curious, especially about the less rock stuff, ha. Like the Craviotto mahogany kit.


Lode_Runner said:


> Also curious if anyone's tried Rattly and Raw's Martin France Drums and Muletone Audio's Brazilian Series Drums?


I've tried the former. Good drums with a nice selection of kit pieces, though not for metal. A few unusual things - one, recorded in a stone church, which is a very live space. Two, includes some controls for muting and tuning with a very wide range, which makes it good for getting glitchy, or for sounding like cut-up breaks. Three, the hi-hat doesn't include a lot of intermediate degrees of openness, which I know are a big deal to some people, but it does include separate stick tip and shank samples. I've written a full review of that for BPB a few years ago.


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## re-peat (Jun 14, 2018)

Lode_Runner said:


> Also curious if anyone's tried Rattly and Raw's Martin France Drums


Pretty good package I have to say, which I bought — being impressed by the product's introduction demos — half hoping never needing to buy anything else again for jazz drums, but unfortunately, both the hi-hats and the cymbals are, again, a bit of a disappointment. To me, anyway. The hi-hats are terribly undersampled for serious jazz use, and the all-important ride(s) have too much stick attack in them I find — a, for my taste, much too pronounced 't' in every 'ting' — which produces a distracting, sort of over-articulated and at times cheap-sounding effect in cymbal grooves.
Other than that though, these are very decent virtual drums.

_


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## DSmolken (Jun 14, 2018)

Yeah, I'd agree that they're not ideal for jazz.

Has anybody tried the Straight Ahead Samples drums? That's another one I've been curious about for a while. They certainly seem very jazz-oriented.


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## re-peat (Jun 14, 2018)

DSmolken said:


> Has anybody tried the Straight Ahead Samples drums? That's another one I've been curious about for a while. They certainly seem very jazz-oriented.


They are. These drums cover only a tiny patch of musical territory — late swing, early bop (the 40’s-50’s in jazz history) — but they do so fantastically. Sonically completely spot on and with enough performance content to see you happily through several months of using this library. Once those months have passed however, frustration sets in because by then, the limitations of what’s included become increasingly apparent and depressing.

This is the one thing I hope Straight Ahead has entered as the top entry in their to-do list: update and expand their Jazz Drums. (Best product they've ever released, if you ask me.) Additional rhythms, more variety in the cymbal and hi-hat patterns, a second bass drum perhaps, and some more choices, features and options to make the library a little bit less cumbersome to work with. 

But, even as it is, flaws and all: quite indispensable if you’re serious about that specific style of jazz drumming.

_


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## DSmolken (Jun 14, 2018)

Thanks, that sounds fine for me. I'm more interested in producing pop music with drums that really sound like they could have been sampled off an old record (which is why I like the Drumdrops stuff I mentioned earlier in this thread), so, OK, having only one kick drum to choose from is a serious limitation in that context, so I'll have to take a closer look...


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## kavinsky (Jun 15, 2018)

procreative said:


> Are you just talking about the stock library that it comes with? The new Bob Rock one sounds pretty flexible and has tons of ambient Mics to mess with. Especially if you like the Black album type drum sound....


yes, I was talking about SD3 default lib, which was recorded by George Massenburg at Galaxy. I really appreciate that it's handed out without any eq and (especially) compression though. That's what makes it sound so natural.
I agree with the notion that the other expansions are more versatile. I'm in love with the room sound in prog sdx - to me its just perfect
Didn't have a chance to pick the Bob Rock one yet unfortunately.


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## procreative (Jun 15, 2018)

kavinsky said:


> yes, I was talking about SD3 default lib, which was recorded by George Massenburg at Galaxy. I really appreciate that it's handed out without any eq and (especially) compression though. That's what makes it sound so natural.
> I agree with the notion that the other expansions are more versatile. I'm in love with the room sound in prog sdx - to me its just perfect
> Didn't have a chance to pick the Bob Rock one yet unfortunately.



Well I dont have it yet or SD3 as on SD2 still. From what I can see you can get that classic Bob Rock drum sound and it has a lot of ambient Mics. I also found the Metal Foundry SDX quite dry.

The Bob Rock one seems to have quite a variety of Snares and some have that thuddy sound popular in the late 80s (if you know the references think "Sonic Temple" era Cult or "Black Album" era Metallica).

Personally not a fan of the Progressive Metal style snares, remind me too much of Korn and the Nu Metal brigade but each to his own. Its just trying to tame a snare with what sounds like a lot of springs and an overtuned head is an impossible task.

But then I grew up as a kid listening to LinnDrum and OBX snares so everything else sounds tinny (I have had stacks of drum machines from a Roland TR606, 808, Yamaha RX11, Boss DR-660 and with the exception of the latter most of the others were either synthesized or used really short PCM samples so sounded nothing like a "real" snare!


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## kavinsky (Jun 15, 2018)

procreative said:


> Personally not a fan of the Progressive Metal style snares, remind me too much of Korn and the Nu Metal brigade but each to his own. Its just trying to tame a snare with what sounds like a lot of springs and an overtuned head is an impossible task.


I meant the progressive sdx (or ezx), they don't have much in common with those overproduced modern metal tones, just a really nice collection of snares in a great midsized room and tuned to my liking.
I like my fundamental around F3-G3. Tuned tight on the bottom and medium on the top to get that lower feel. I'm not a fan those high cranked snares most of the libraries come with. Just lack any weight when they hit above 200hz
On the other hand, when its too loose, it doesnt feel right to hit and the shell does not vibrate properly, leaving you with unpronounced "PSHH". It's usable in certain situations, but def not a first choice


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## procreative (Jun 15, 2018)

Agreed I find many of the snares Toontrack do too pingy. My favourite snare was in the Nashville EZX. I like the sound of a real tub thumper wellying a snare. Remember seeing an irish band called Cactus World News supporting The Cult back in 1987 I think and their drummer actually played with felt beaters he hit so hard!!

Never seen a band with so many guitar pedals think they must have had BOSS as a sponsor, they had a rack with about 30 pedals in it. They sounded a lot like U2 (Pride era) as they were on the same label and mates of theirs...


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## LamaRose (Jul 20, 2018)

fustrun said:


> I want to do mostly electronic kicks and percussion sounds, or good flexible sources to work with.



Logic X is loaded with techno/house/hip hop/EDM/etc kits. Great percussion and brushes as well. And the drummer interface makes it so easy to flip out kits, drummers, grooves, etc. Very experimental.


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## Wally Garten (Jul 20, 2018)

I also like Logic's built-in electronic kits. 

I also use a lot of Samples From Mars stuff -- what's nice about them is they give you wav files as well as the kontakt instruments, so you can load them to hardware samplers for mangling/lo fi processing. (If that's your bag.)

For a nice natural-sounding kit (although I don't really program it naturalistically) I'm very fond of Ollie Waton Drums, recently rebranded as LABS Drums.


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## Craig Peters (Jul 20, 2018)

For me it depends on the style. But or band or metal type stuff I've been using Getgood Drums. They just have that sound that I like in modern drum productions. If its more hybrid/ edm cinematic type stuff I'll use Glitch Hero.


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## IdealSequenceG (Jul 21, 2018)

8Dio - Blackbird
Sonic Reality EpiK DrumS - Terry Bozzio Kit
FXpansion BFD3 - London Sessions


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## Per Lichtman (Jul 21, 2018)

It depends on the type of drums I’m looking for. Right now I’m working on reviews of IWantThatSound/ThatSound and PastToFuture kits and they are a completely different animal from AD2 or the BFD and SD series (though note that I’ve not worked with the most recent versions of BFD or SD, just watched videos, etc.) Those libraries aim for more general purpose usage while the ones I’m reviewing are tailored to very specific sounds.

I saw at least two people mention ThatSound and it makes sense. The recording quality on the samples is really great and has a different aesthetic than some of the “big 3.” Often fewer velocity layers, mic positions or RR than in the top big 3. They tend to be a bit more “hi-fi” in their sound than PastToFuture. One of their kits just nails the old Phil Collins toms sound - lots of toms.

PastToFuture is typically light on velocity layers (1-3) but heavy on round-robin (up to 20!) and they are very eccentric recordings. Like, if you want the opposite of clinical drums, they are literally the first library you should try. They went full-bore on reproducing the recording style and environment for various genres (60 or 70s surf rock, several kinda of Motown, psychedelic rock) or artists (Queen, Tom Petty, Fleetwood Mac, Dungen) and they nail that aspect better than any other developer I’ve encountered. The Kontakt programming is not at the same level, so you may end up having to really tweak things yourself - though you can export the samples from Kontakt to WAV files for battery, etc. if you choose. There are definite artifacts and blemishes left in some of the samples, so if that’s an issue avoid them. But by switching between a few of their libraries you can instantly completely transform the genre of your drums in an exceedingly specific way.

So if you aren’t just looking for deep sampled, definitely audition libraries from both developers because they are really different than what’s mentioned here for the most part.

In terms of electronic drums, I use GoldBaby, D16, SonicCharge and Image-Line for much of my work.


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## kavinsky (Jul 21, 2018)

That Sound is great but they can't compare to toontrack or others in terms of how detailed they are.
To me their intended use is for layering only, or for something really really basic, because 10 samples per drum is nothing in this day and age and you can't do a convincing performance when RR/layers count is that limited
The character is there though, they are pre-processed and ready to use


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## Per Lichtman (Jul 21, 2018)

kavinsky said:


> That Sound is great but they can't compare to toontrack or others in terms of how detailed they are.
> To me their intended use is for layering only, or for something really really basic, because 10 samples per drum is nothing in this day and age and you can't do a convincing performance when RR/layers count is that limited
> The character is there though, they are pre-processed and ready to use



Yes, many of their kits are not deep-sampled in a way that approaches the big 3 at all - no doubt about it. But the sound is also quite different, too.

Also, if you haven’t listened to PastToFuture yet, here’s a video someone posted running the same MIDI pattern through a handful of their libraries.


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## DSmolken (Jul 21, 2018)

That Sound stuff is great for pop or hip-hop where you don't really need to sound like a drummer playing a drum kit, or layering with more natural-sounding drums. Seeing the walkthrough for their Sterloid was pretty enligtening - the guy they sampled, a drummer, was using the samples from a keyboard, and layering several snares at once. Not terribly concerned with being very drummerly about it, in other words.

Past To Future samples, I haven't tried, but another developer that goes into replicating vintage recording methods is Drumdrops, and they do more standard numbers of velocity layers and round robins. I have their folk rock, disco and funk kits. Looking at the description of their Motown kit (which last I checked was available in smaller versions, but the full-blown Kontakt one isn't ready yet) is very interesting - they copied the mic setup including leakage into vocal and horn section mics.

I'd sample this snare, but it costs more than $2000 and I'm not sure if samples of it would sell well enough to justify such an investement.


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## Per Lichtman (Jul 21, 2018)

DSmolken said:


> That Sound stuff is great for pop or hip-hop where you don't really need to sound like a drummer playing a drum kit, or layering with more natural-sounding drums. Seeing the walkthrough for their Sterloid was pretty enligtening - the guy they sampled, a drummer, was using the samples from a keyboard, and layering several snares at once. Not terribly concerned with being very drummerly about it, in other words.
> 
> Past To Future samples, I haven't tried, but another developer that goes into replicating vintage recording methods is Drumdrops, and they do more standard numbers of velocity layers and round robins. I have their folk rock, disco and funk kits. Looking at the description of their Motown kit (which last I checked was available in smaller versions, but the full-blown Kontakt one isn't ready yet) is very interesting - they copied the mic setup including leakage into vocal and horn section mics.
> 
> I'd sample this snare, but it costs more than $2000 and I'm not sure if samples of it would sell well enough to justify such an investement.




Interesting - I’ll look into them. At first glance they have far more velocities (10x to 30x as many) but far fewer round-robins (PastToFuture has 6x+ as many). DrumDrops are also more expensive, so that makes sense. PastToFuture has a 60s drum bundle with 6 kits $40 (including 3 Motown ones), which is less than price for the Kontakt package price for DrumDrops 60s Motown kit.

Interested to look into Drumdrops more.


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## R. Soul (Jul 21, 2018)

What do you guys recommend for 'acoustic beats'? 
I'm coming from a Stylus RMX background where every loop sounds unique (although very dated now), when I try Addictive drums 2 and EZ 2 all I think is that it all sounds the same. Too many grooves are like kick on 1 , snare on 2 and 4, with a slight variation around 3 + 8th note hihat. 
In the end the grooves are so basic and similar that it's easier to just program your own. 
Yes, I do realise most stuff like Rock is more focused on fills and variations every 4 bars than unique beats, but surely there must be more unique acoustic grooves out there as well? Mostly looking for Pop and similar I guess.


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## Per Lichtman (Jul 21, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> What do you guys recommend for 'acoustic beats'?
> I'm coming from a Stylus RMX background where every loop sounds unique (although very dated now), when I try Addictive drums 2 and EZ 2 all I think is that it all sounds the same. Too many grooves are like kick on 1 , snare on 2 and 4, with a slight variation around 3 + 8th note hihat.
> In the end the grooves are so basic and similar that it's easier to just program your own.
> Yes, I do realise most stuff like Rock is more focused on fills and variations every 4 bars than unique beats, but surely there must be more unique acoustic grooves out there as well? Mostly looking for Pop and similar I guess.



I'm not sure if I know exactly what you're looking for in terms of the type of variation. Maybe start of with a look at https://groovemonkee.com/collections/midi-loops and see if any of that is in the right direction?


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## DSmolken (Jul 21, 2018)

Realidrums is an interesting approach to the patterns and variation problem.


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## pderbidge (Jul 21, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> What do you guys recommend for 'acoustic beats'?
> I'm coming from a Stylus RMX background where every loop sounds unique (although very dated now), when I try Addictive drums 2 and EZ 2 all I think is that it all sounds the same. Too many grooves are like kick on 1 , snare on 2 and 4, with a slight variation around 3 + 8th note hihat.
> In the end the grooves are so basic and similar that it's easier to just program your own.
> Yes, I do realise most stuff like Rock is more focused on fills and variations every 4 bars than unique beats, but surely there must be more unique acoustic grooves out there as well? Mostly looking for Pop and similar I guess.


https://www.oddgrooves.com


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## sostenuto (Jul 21, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> What do you guys recommend for 'acoustic beats'?
> I'm coming from a Stylus RMX background where every loop sounds unique (although very dated now), when I try Addictive drums 2 and EZ 2 all I think is that it all sounds the same. Mostly looking for Pop and similar I guess.



Comprende. Also have AD2, and those in K11U. Biggest help, for long time, has been grabbing every 'on-sale' REX lib from The Loop Loft. 
Lots of options then with StylusRMX.

Gotta believe Eric P realizes the enormous pent-up demand for RMX Update …..


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## R. Soul (Jul 21, 2018)

Thanks for the links people. I'll check them when I'm back on the PC. 

Thinking about it, I think another gripe, is that these plugins are too concerned about sounding like 1 drummer. A groove for me often consist of a kick and snare but might have a clap layered with snare and a tambourine to add top end. Then I might have a shaker pattern and a ride pattern. Then, some sort of mid range percussion - like bongo for example to add some fullness.
This is just not possible cause these drummer plugins are based around what 1 guy can play with his 2 arms and 2 legs.
Yes, I can open 3 instances of Ad2 or Ez2 but it becomes a bit fiddly.
I guess that's why I often end up using Battery.


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## Wally Garten (Jul 21, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> What do you guys recommend for 'acoustic beats'?
> I'm coming from a Stylus RMX background where every loop sounds unique (although very dated now), when I try Addictive drums 2 and EZ 2 all I think is that it all sounds the same. Too many grooves are like kick on 1 , snare on 2 and 4, with a slight variation around 3 + 8th note hihat.
> In the end the grooves are so basic and similar that it's easier to just program your own.
> Yes, I do realise most stuff like Rock is more focused on fills and variations every 4 bars than unique beats, but surely there must be more unique acoustic grooves out there as well? Mostly looking for Pop and similar I guess.



Soniccouture's drum libraries have some cool tools for creating unusual rhythmic patterns.


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## R. Soul (Jul 21, 2018)

Wally Garten said:


> Soniccouture's drum libraries have some cool tools for creating unusual rhythmic patterns.


I bought Konkrete 1 and 2 back in the day - 7-8 years ago maybe?
Very unique sounds. Perfect if you want to sound like Aphex Twin.
Perhaps you meant Electro-acoustic? Sounds very electronic to me.

I had a listen to Magnus Brandell pack from oddgroves that @pderbridge recommended.
The demos sounded quite rough. The word 'demo' is rather appropriate actually.

@sostenuto I had a quick listen to Loop loft. A lof of grooves sounded pretty unique actually.
Indie rock, Everything but sticks, Art of brushes were all great.
All loops works well in RMX? Are the loops sliced well and stretches -+30 BPM without artifacts?
Seems like a no brainer if yes.


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## Wally Garten (Jul 21, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> I bought Konkrete 1 and 2 back in the day - 7-8 years ago maybe?
> Very unique sounds. Perfect if you want to sound like Aphex Twin.
> Perhaps you meant Electro-acoustic? Sounds very electronic to me.



That's true, though I believe you can drag-and-drop the rhythms you create to other MIDI tracks. At least, you can with the Samulnori Percussion library, which has the same "Euclidean Beats" rhythm builder that comes with Konkrete and Electro-acoustic. (Samulnori itself is definitely acoustic in sound, though perhaps too weird/esoteric to be used in pop productions.)


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## sostenuto (Jul 21, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> I bought Konkrete 1 and 2 back in the day - 7-8 years ago maybe?
> Very unique sounds. Perfect if you want to sound like Aphex Twin.
> Perhaps you meant Electro-acoustic? Sounds very electronic to me.
> 
> ...



I do little more than work with Time Designer and Chaos ....dragging MIDI to Reaper.
Little doubt your demands for loop slicing and stretches exceed mine notably.
Jazz interests got me to Art of Brushes, Ethnic to Celso Alberti, Mino Cinelu ....
Have enjoyed __ Beats Like Bonham, Aaron Comess, Omar Hakim, Matt Chamberlain.

Also; PluginGuru did Beat Breakers and BeatTropolis which have some interesting content.

Sorry to not help more .....


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## R. Soul (Jul 24, 2018)

Thanks Wally.
Maybe I overstated the need for 'unique' grooves. I'm not looking for something so unique as for it to have eg. 64th notes and a snare that sounds like bus hitting a barn.
I'm just tired of these generic grooves.
Grooves based on toms, sticks hitting each other and stuff like that is interesting.




sostenuto said:


> I do little more than work with Time Designer and Chaos ....dragging MIDI to Reaper.
> Little doubt your demands for loop slicing and stretches exceed mine notably.
> Jazz interests got me to Art of Brushes, Ethnic to Celso Alberti, Mino Cinelu ....
> Have enjoyed __ Beats Like Bonham, Aaron Comess, Omar Hakim, Matt Chamberlain.
> ...


I'm not that demanding regarding RMX, but loops need to be able be speed up and down without issues and snare or kick removed. So the hihat shouldn't be sliced in a way, so that it contains half a snare.

Loop loft sent me a 30% off coupon so might just use that and get the platinum pack.


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## Scamper (Jul 24, 2018)

What are your opinions on NI Studio Drummer in comparison to the others?


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## bap_la_so_1 (Jul 24, 2018)

Shreddage drums is on sale
Anyone has exprerience with it?


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## Lindon (Jul 24, 2018)

Per Lichtman said:


> Interesting - I’ll look into them. At first glance they have far more velocities (10x to 30x as many) but far fewer round-robins (PastToFuture has 6x+ as many). DrumDrops are also more expensive, so that makes sense. PastToFuture has a 60s drum bundle with 6 kits $40 (including 3 Motown ones), which is less than price for the Kontakt package price for DrumDrops 60s Motown kit.
> 
> Interested to look into Drumdrops more.


The other thing going for the DrumDrops libs(well the Kontakt ones..) is the inclusion of tuning, eq and timing randomisation controls - these will behave exactly like having a massive amount of round robins - after all this is all that RRs are doing for you, recording subtle variations in pitch, eq and timing found in each drum hit.


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## pderbidge (Jul 24, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> Thanks for the links people. I'll check them when I'm back on the PC.
> 
> Thinking about it, I think another gripe, is that these plugins are too concerned about sounding like 1 drummer. A groove for me often consist of a kick and snare but might have a clap layered with snare and a tambourine to add top end. Then I might have a shaker pattern and a ride pattern. Then, some sort of mid range percussion - like bongo for example to add some fullness.
> This is just not possible cause these drummer plugins are based around what 1 guy can play with his 2 arms and 2 legs.
> ...


Slate has layering options and so does AD2. They are not limitless like Battery but they do have options. AD2 has 3 flexi slots(slots that you load any other AD2 kit instrument into) that can be linked to the Kick or Snare but can't be linked to the other kit pieces. In Slate, at least in the platinum version you have quite a few extra slots that can be layered with any kit piece plus you can load your own samples in Slate.

Battery is great for more electronic drum sounds where you don't need all those round robins (although you can set it up for RR) whereas these acoustic drum kits like Slate, AD2, EZD2, SD3, etc... are better for more realistic drum sounds due to the way they deal with RR and other nuances.


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## stacever (Jul 25, 2018)

Henu said:


> I'm eager to hear what library is more versatile for "overall" acoustic drums than SD3.


Not sure if it is more versatile than SD3 but I find Native Instruments Abbeyroad series plus Studio Drummer one of the most versatile collection of drums within consistent UI design and with the same level of sampling detail. As it was not primary goal to make kit pieces to be changeable across kits it was possible to record drums in very different conditions.


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## martynhilliam (Jul 26, 2018)

I think it totally depends on the track you are doing but Get Good Drums has been good for me, if we are talking current 'go to' the newish 'Modern and Massive' by them is fantastic. I also use Steven Slate Drums 4; don't have Superior Drummer 3, which friends have said how brilliant it is but unfortunately can't compare personally against those.


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## kavinsky (Jul 26, 2018)

martynhilliam said:


> I think it totally depends on the track you are doing but Get Good Drums has been good for me, if we are talking current 'go to' the newish 'Modern and Massive' by them is fantastic. I also use Steven Slate Drums 4; don't have Superior Drummer 3, which friends have said how brilliant it is but unfortunately can't compare personally against those.


GGD is a nice lib but its very limited to those modern progmetal sounds, just something to be aware of.
The snares are all rimshots on the top 2-4 velocity layers. It could've been fine if there were more layers, but its only 7. So the focus of the lib is quite obvious


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