# How would you respond?



## Andrajas (Aug 8, 2018)

So by the looks of it, i pitched for a game which it seems that they would like for me to score. However when they mentioned their budget, it was a much lower than I mentioned to them when pitching. My price was no way overkill. 

So how would you respond to this? I really want to score the game, but i need money to be able to pay the bills, but i do however need money now.. dno what to do


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## Jaap (Aug 8, 2018)

I guess you might have to look to a bigger picture and see if scoring this game can also lead towards more work and/or experience for your own skillset and make a calculation if you can justify the hours (and what to potentially cut) so that you will have enough room as well to keep up the finances by taking in other work.

Also see how much youself can benefit from it by working on it and with this I mean the overal experience and pleasure. I just signed myself a contract for a feature film with quite a disappointing budget, but the director could explain really well why, I really like his stories and actually really looking forward on a personal level to work on it. Financially I do not have to do this, but I want to do this.

But also make sure you dont get "screwed" and see if there is also something to negotiate for payment afterwards (i.e. like a small percentage of the profit etc).


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## Daryl (Aug 8, 2018)

If they can't pay for your work, you need to make sure that you "own" a percentage of the game. Anyone who is working at way under industry rates, or for nothing, is taking a risk, and the people who take the risks share the rewards. You also need to make sure that, in the event of the game being a flop, all rights for the music revert back to you.

If their argument is "well we can get someone else who will do it for our budget", it means that they never really wanted you in the first place. All they wanted was a stooge who would work for next to nothing. So you've lost nothing by turning it down.


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## mouse (Aug 8, 2018)

"You want to pay me 25% less, which means I'll have to write 25% less music. Here's what I suggest that we cut....alternatively, for the full amount quoted, we can go ahead with the original plan".


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## sinkd (Aug 8, 2018)

I would come back at them a little more than halfway to your original quote and also ask for a percentage in exchange for lowering your rate. If they refuse then you have to decide. Smallish company, I guess? They are trying to keep their dev costs down because that is cash money to them right now. They may go for the percentage.


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## Andrajas (Aug 8, 2018)

thanks for the responses! The situation is like this: As for now, they need 3 tracks for a alpha testing, and more tracks are going to be done at a later point. I took the approach to tell them what I cost per minute of music for a full buyout. Their price is 1/5 of my price for a whole track. 

I will try to make it somehow a better deal for me since while I do want to do the game and are in big need of income, I don't want to sell out myself. And yes, its a smaller company


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## Jaap (Aug 8, 2018)

Andrajas said:


> thanks for the responses! The situation is like this: As for now, they need 3 tracks for a alpha testing, and more tracks are going to be done at a later point. I took the approach to tell them what I cost per minute of music for a full buyout. Their price is 1/5 of my price for a whole track.
> 
> I will try to make it somehow a better deal for me since while I do want to do the game and are in big need of income, I don't want to sell out myself. And yes, its a smaller company



Maybe also the option to offer it them non-exclusively, so you can put the music also in music production library? Or find a middle ground and offer a 6 month/1 year exclusive period and that you can put it then into other use (heck if its composed for a game, you might even have a good concept to deliver a whole album to a music production company)


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 8, 2018)

Daryl said:


> If their argument is "well we can get someone else who will do it for our budget", it means that they never really wanted you in the first place. All they wanted was a stooge who would work for next to nothing. So you've lost nothing by turning it down.



This^. I would make them a final offer, like a pre-payment amount (before you even start), and a royalty deal. Whatever you do, get it all in a contract and have it signed. Otherwise, you are going to get screwed.


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## premjj (Aug 8, 2018)

Andrajas said:


> So by the looks of it, i pitched for a game which it seems that they would like for me to score. However when they mentioned their budget, it was a much lower than I mentioned to them when pitching. My price was no way overkill.
> 
> So how would you respond to this? I really want to score the game, but i need money to be able to pay the bills, but i do however need money now.. dno what to do



I have faced this situation sometimes here at my end too and I've tried different approaches (based on lessons learnt in the past + advice from people). But I learnt gradually that there really wasn't one single approach to deal with low ball offers. And despite taking a lot of care I ended up burning some finger or the other. 

A key takeaway none the less:

1. When an audience listens to me ( am a vocalist), they like me because of the quality of my vocals and not because I was paid at/above the industry rate.

So I have done gigs where I almost sang for free but thankfully my performance touched enough people to generate more paid gigs and also got me several teaching assignments. In fact if I look back then some of my best leads (all paid) were a result of gigs where I was unhappy, to begin with, about the payment, venue etc.

My point is: Focus on putting your best work out there. Turn a few heads.

If the game developer you are pitching to doesn't have budgets but will promote his game well (= reach a large audience) then it may be worth it to work at low cost. Try for break even cost to begin with, so at least you don't spend anything from your pocket.

BUT

Do remember to make sure you keep the rights to the compositions so that when the world recognises your masterpiece, the client doesn't end up encashing on it!! I've been there. Did vocals + compositions barely at cost and then the work was so well received that now it is going to be redubbed in multiple languages and aired across TV channels in my country. But so far no royalty for the extended work has been offered to me.


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## NoamL (Aug 8, 2018)

mouse said:


> "You want to pay me 25% less, which means I'll have to write 25% less music. Here's what I suggest that we cut....alternatively, for the full amount quoted, we can go ahead with the original plan".



Yup this. And then pitch all the higher production value things you can do with more budget. Like sweetening recording sessions or whatever you planned to do with the higher budget.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Aug 8, 2018)

Andrajas said:


> So by the looks of it, i pitched for a game which it seems that they would like for me to score. However when they mentioned their budget, it was a much lower than I mentioned to them when pitching. My price was no way overkill.
> 
> So how would you respond to this? I really want to score the game, but i need money to be able to pay the bills, but i do however need money now.. dno what to do



Ask yourself: Is their budget making you happy, would that budget help you pay ing your bills? If not, don´t do that job then because it is a shitty one. If you need the money and really want the project, try to tell them then what you can do for "their budget". Don´t screw yourself because in the end: You work on that job and you will be not happy having a shitload of work for a shitty budget. I know it is not easy and if you really really want that anyways: do it. I just want to say: Don´t make yourself total unhappy because I think a proper budget has also to do something with respecting the other person. I would tell them: I can do this for your budget. Period. And even if that is 30 seconds of music.


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## Andrajas (Aug 8, 2018)

thanks people, love that i'm able to ask questions like this here. Just great.

I will send an email back and see what kind of deal I can get. But if it doesn't feel good, I won't take it. Hopefully it will turn out good


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## Greg (Aug 8, 2018)

I would be pretty hesitant to say no. Sounds like you really wanted this gig since you pitched for it. I certainly regret turning down a few zero budget projects that ended up being pretty damn cool games. I think it's a lot easier to make money than to find awesome projects to work on.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Aug 8, 2018)

Daryl said:


> If they can't pay for your work, you need to make sure that you "own" a percentage of the game. Anyone who is working at way under industry rates, or for nothing, is taking a risk, and the people who take the risks share the rewards.



This is a common thing to do when a company doesn't have the budget to pay you. In this case, beware that some companies will try to give you a percentage deal where you only get paid once any investors has recouped their money. In many cases this is likely to never happen so if you go for a percentage deal, make sure to demand that it's a percentage of the gross revenue - from the first sale.


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 8, 2018)

If they can’t pay what you charge, they shouldn’t have exclusive rights to the music. Flat out. 

They should license the music from you on a non-exclusive basis. That way you can still make money from the music through other means.

If you truly need money, there are many easier ways to make more money. Get a crappy temp job to pay bills. Don’t rely on music income to sustain you if companies are not willing to pay you what you want.


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## X-Bassist (Aug 8, 2018)

Another sparkling DI post. I'd say make money anyway you can (better than wasting your time at something you hate). I agree with those that say you should tell them the amount you can do on their budget, the advantage if the budget is larger, and some options for the potential client (some tracks being more background, some limited themes that get reused). Especially if you like what you know about the project and they have potential, this is a business of relationship, future projects come from references.

Make the most of your communications with them, even if you eventually have to turn the project down. If the amount of work needed (after a meeting where you discuss what's required) exceeds the amount they have to pay, then you might need to turn it down ("apologies, but I can't afford to work on the project and cover my bills...). But until that time do what you can to give them something ( a demo or few scenes) they can love and justfy the budget increase. Then tell them to go find that money .

And if it's a small place come up with your own contract for the music licensing, stating you own the music and they have limited non-exclusive rights. Once they sign it you can work on the project knowing you can have other options down the road if you want. They may even want to buy it out someday


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 8, 2018)

X-Bassist said:


> Another sparkling DI post.



Thanks for the support, buddy. You are my #1 fan!


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## chillbot (Aug 8, 2018)

Desire Inspires said:


> Thanks for the support, buddy. You are my #1 fan!


But he doesn't love the way you bump old posts the way I do.


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## Daryl (Aug 9, 2018)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> This is a common thing to do when a company doesn't have the budget to pay you. In this case, beware that some companies will try to give you a percentage deal where you only get paid once any investors has recouped their money. In many cases this is likely to never happen so if you go for a percentage deal, make sure to demand that it's a percentage of the gross revenue - from the first sale.


Of course, but you are also an investor, and your contract should state that, quite apart from your composing contract.


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## jhughes (Aug 9, 2018)

I wouldn't do it. I always have a minimum number in mind and I don't budge from it. They can get someone else to do the job, which they will, and I'll gladly find another way to make money if need be. Experience has shown me that anytime I give somebody a deal, it either leads to nothing or them not treating me well..no thanks


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## Rasmus Hartvig (Aug 10, 2018)

Daryl said:


> Of course, but you are also an investor, and your contract should state that, quite apart from your composing contract.



Definitely. But in my experience it's surprising how many companies will offer you a deal where you don't recoup with investors. Just something to be aware of for someone inexperienced entering the minefield.


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## jononotbono (Aug 10, 2018)

Andrajas said:


> So by the looks of it, i pitched for a game which it seems that they would like for me to score. However when they mentioned their budget, it was a much lower than I mentioned to them when pitching. My price was no way overkill.
> 
> So how would you respond to this? I really want to score the game, but i need money to be able to pay the bills, but i do however need money now.. dno what to do



If I wanted to score the game I would just do it. If needs be, I'd get a temporary non-music job to pay the bills. That one game could be something that springboards me to another game that I would love to work on. But of course, this is only if I really wanted to score it. Earning money to pay the bills outside of music is far easier than earning a living in music, so just get a shit job and learn how to live on 3 hours sleep and do the game


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## Andrajas (Aug 10, 2018)

Of course I can get an non-music payed job and just take the gig for very little money. I do feel I have to value my time anyway and that means getting paid for the work I do. As told earlier, if they really want me, we will work something out, even if that means I don't get paid as much as I wanted. I sent an answer back to them, lets see what they say


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## jononotbono (Aug 10, 2018)

Andrajas said:


> Of course I can to get an non-music payed job and just take the gig for very little money. I do feel I have to value my time anyway and that means getting paid for the work I do. As told earlier, if they really want me, we will work something out, even if that means I don't get paid as much as I wanted. I sent an answer back to them, lets see what they say



Oh, I don't mean just do the Game for nothing. You have to be paid something. However, if scoring the game is something I would would want to do then I would definitely negotiate with them (hopefully making them realise why my fee would be what it would be to add value - people like to know what their money is being spent on) and go from there. The shitty job thing is just sometimes a necessary evil to pursue this kind of thing. Definitely don't work for free. And payment doesn't have to be Financial etc.


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## Strezov (Aug 10, 2018)

Keep the rights and sell the music to a library, you can probably earn more if the music is good. Just make sure you don't sell yourself too short - make a point in writing that this is a one time deal. Otherwise people would expect you to work on the same rates for ages --- been there personally.... :(


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