# Streamlining going from notation prog to DAW



## shnootre (Oct 22, 2017)

Greetings, 

I know generally the path here is DAW to notation, but for me it's always been the opposite. I work in Finale, and w/ Vienna Ensemble Pro and heavy use of the midi tool, I do a lot of my playback optimizing within Finale. I always have this dream of taking the final version of my Finale playback midi file, and then tweaking it, but it's just always so much work to get there, and I find I don't have the time. 

For specifics, and for example, I'm just finishing up revising an opera that lives as fourteen separate finale files. I have a basic template that each one more or less uses, which consists of one instance of Vienna Ensemble Pro, and 5 additional instance of Vienna Event Plug in. All told, I have between 50-65 tracks going in VE Pro. 

The playback works great, and I do all my effects routing within VE Pro (so I don't have to deal with Finale's awful mixer or effects routing non-options). 

I would like to be able to export a midi file from finale, and then go into Logic (which is the DAW I have) and maybe set up a template once, but then be able to load in additional scenes and attach them quickly to the same VE Pro server project. 

With the work I've done like this in Logic, it always seems like you have to start by opening the midi file you've created in Finale, and then one by one route each track to the appropriate channel in VE Pro. I simply don't have time to do that for each scene, and it seems crazy that I would have to. 

Is there some shortcut in this process? Is there a way, for instance, to set up a template in Logic and then important midi files INTO the template, rather than opening the midi file and starting from scratch? 

Am I missing some basic things here? Or is this just gonna be time consuming (and ultimately not worth my while - since these are basically demos for performers, not broadcast-ready audio). 

Thanks for any insight! Sorry if I've been unclear in any of this!


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## peter5992 (Dec 16, 2017)

I don't think there's a shortcut - what you could do is set up a template in your DAW that is (substantially) similar to the setup in Finale, and then copy and paste the midi staffs. I have an orchestral template in Reaper that covers the basic instruments, divided into the 4 orchestral groups (ww, brass, percussion, strings). When I import a midi file from Sibelius, I insert it at the bottom of a new project, and then copy the midi staffs one by one. 

There's always going to be a fair amount of double work, you have to choose the appropriate instruments, tweak them, maybe replay everything with a midi keyboard to add more life to it, and so on. In an ideal world notation and midi / DAW would be seamlessly integrated but that's not reality yet (Notion and Overture aren't really satisfying imo), although Dorico is very promising in this regard.


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## wcreed51 (Dec 17, 2017)

You might want to check out Overture. It has extensive DAW like MIDI editing, so porting to another application might not be necessary.


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## peter5992 (Dec 18, 2017)

wcreed51 said:


> You might want to check out Overture. It has extensive DAW like MIDI editing, so porting to another application might not be necessary.



In terms of engraving quality, Overture is not very impressive, with all due respect to the developer. It's also developed by just one guy, which is impressive, but that means continuity risks.


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## wcreed51 (Dec 19, 2017)

Both true, but not everyone needs the depth of engraving in Finale/Sib/Dorico.


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## joebaggan (Dec 19, 2017)

I usually start in Sibelius and later import into Cubase Pro for better Midi editing/playback. Setting things up again in Cubase is kind of a pain, so am thinking of doing both the notation and midi work in Cubase next time so I have one integrated environment. The Cubase Pro Score editor seems to be the best among DAW notation editors. And music xml from that could be imported into tools like Sib/Finale later if you need engraving level quality (I don't).


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## Piano Pete (Dec 19, 2017)

My thought process:

You are trying to import midi into Logic and set up the routing (say flute in this example) so that when you import new midi files (individual instruments/scenes) your flutes always go to flute, but you do not want to have to fiddle with routing for each midi track every time you open Logic? Not too hard.

I would set up a template in your DAW so that you have your instrument tracks, articulations and all, ready to go. I would then also have pre-routed empty midi tracks waiting for notes. (These would be routed to their respective instrument tracks/samples). From there, I would import the midi into that blank project template and drag and drop each midi event into its destined and correctly pre-routed midi channel. Now you can drag and drop whatever midi data you want to trigger whatever sample you want without going into settings! Keep your original imports as reference; make sure they are not routed to anything generating sound. 

Make sure that your template covers whatever samples/articulations you want for each instrument. For doubled instruments/divisi, you would load duplicated instrument tracks for these and do individual routing (Flute Stacc 1. Flute Stacc 2. Midi to Flute Stac 1. Midi to Flute Stac 2). *Do not route divisi tracks to trigger the same samples. If you route divisi tracks to trigger the same sample, it will only play it louder; it will not sound like more instruments playing. Use the "transpose trick" for this: Flute Stac 1 is normal. Flute Stac 2 is transposed down a HS. This means you would have to transpose the midi up a HS in Flute 2 to play the desired pitch. This will be more convincing as two flutes playing the same note than the alternative.* (For example. I have articulations set for Horns 1 & 2, 3 & 4, and 5 & 6. If my writing does not have any overlapping notes, I'll just use as few of my three horn sections as I can get away with to keep my project condensed and concise. Sometimes everything will be written in horns 1 & 2 with the occasional unison note in 3 & 4.) 

For dealing with separate articulations within the same instrument (flute), just duplicate the imported midi event across each articulation and delete everything that doesnt belong as that articulation. You will probably need to adjust note lengths and start positions based on whatever sample library you use: season to taste by ear. 

Once you have the blank pre-routed template set up, I would repeat this process per scene. I would not try to slam an entire opera into a single Logic file. Dragging and dropping midi is less work than routing from scratch. You could make a macro or use some code to intelligently pre-route everything with a click of a button, but I will not get into that now. 

In most cases, if you are using this as reference for live musicians (especially for a classical performance) the audio export from your notation program is usually enough for them, so you may be generating more work for yourself by putting it into your DAW; however, I do not know what your situation is or who you are working with, so it may behoove you to have the best possible mockup. You be the judge of this. 

I used to export from Finale into the DAW, but I have found it much faster and easier to work the other way. It is easier to quickly edit midi in the DAW environment and export to Finale, and it is easier to make the audio correctly from the beginning in the DAW than to tweak imported midi. 

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions and need me to get into nitty-gritty specifics.


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## stigc56 (Jan 3, 2018)

I have been in this situation. I compose by the piano, write in Sibelius and produce in Cubase. I found that the imported midi tracks - from Sibelius to Cubase - didn't sound the way I wanted. I ended up rerecording the whole suite in Cubase. Much extra work but worth it, because you can play in the voices the way a real player would do it.


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## nanotk (Jan 30, 2018)

Personnally, i setup the template in Logic and DRAG my midi file into it, it is a simple and effective way.
Nanotk


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