# Notion 4 opinions



## G-Sun (Oct 12, 2013)

Hi!

Anybody having opinions about Notion 4?
How is it regarding print output -formating, measures, scaling etc.?

No demo?
How's support and forum?


----------



## wcreed51 (Oct 13, 2013)

Notion is a great composition tool, but it's printed output is no where near Sib and Fin. It's still a young product, and will only get better. It has a clean efficient UI and a nice mixer.

The bundled sounds are better then those of Sib and Fin, and it has built in support for VSL SE, GPO, and EWQLSO. If you're handy with XML, you can create sophisticated playback rules for any library you want.

Good support and an active forum. True, no demo for some reason; the previous version had one. There's a companion iPad version.


----------



## G-Sun (Oct 13, 2013)

wcreed51 @ Sun Oct 13 said:


> Notion is a great composition tool, but it's printed output is no where near Sib and Fin. It's still a young product, and will only get better. It has a clean efficient UI and a nice mixer.
> 
> The bundled sounds are better then those of Sib and Fin, and it has built in support for VSL SE, GPO, and EWQLSO. If you're handy with XML, you can create sophisticated playback rules for any library you want.
> 
> Good support and an active forum. True, no demo for some reason; the previous version had one. There's a companion iPad version.


Thanks!
Great info.

Print output: Would it do ok for medium requirements?
Would you expect it to improve much, or would you guess the devs are focusing more on other aspects? -Like they're goal is not so much print and engraving?


----------



## SamGarnerStudios (Oct 13, 2013)

Notion 4 is great for certain things, awful at others. A couple months I needed to compose something very quickly and have decent playback, and Notion 4 was great for that. But then when I had the time I just exported it to Sibelius. 

If you're composing, it's awesome. If you need to format and make it look pretty, stay away. Or export. 

Also, if you write any jazz stuff, if doesn't have slash chords, Blows my mind, but they don't have jazz chords. They have the option to have it swing when playback, but they somehow overlooked slashes.


----------



## wcreed51 (Oct 13, 2013)

Yes, there are many glaring omissions! It depends on what sort of music you work with as to weather that will be a issue. It can export both MIDI and Music XML, so it's easy enough to move your score to Sib or Fin.

I'm sure it will continue to improve on all fronts. Hard to know what the dev's priorities are. Also, Notion was just acquired by Studio One, so that's another variable.


----------



## G-Sun (Oct 13, 2013)

Thanks!

For the moment I'm doing SATB-scoring (choir),
and besides decent print I need to hear well what I'm doing
and maybe provide cue audio-files for the singers.

Later I'll maybe compose for a marching band / brass band.

Currently I'm using Reaper for composing, which is nice,
and Musescore for score-print, but it's not ideal.
No MusicXML in Reaper, so exporting midi, and things get a little messed up.

So, Notions Rewire and pricetag looks interesting.

Or, maybe I should go for Sibelius First? ..but I tend to dislike restricted versions.


----------



## kmlandre (Oct 13, 2013)

I use Notion regularly, and while it's true that the print quality certainly isn't of a publishable level, it's more than adequate to throw a part in front of someone for a quick read.

Depending on how many instruments you have, however, the score itself can be another matter. I haven't figured out a good way to scale large scores onto a typical piece of paper (8.5x11 or 22x17).

But I primarily use it for composition, at which it absolutely excels. For playback, most folks export it (a painless process) and import the output into a DAW for performance manipulation.

That, in fact, is my biggest headache with Notion: fine-tuning some performance parameters. But it's certainly doable.

As for a demo, you can always download Notion 3 from here:
http://www.notionmusic.com/support/downloads.html

I believe it will function as a demo for 14 days (as best I remember) and the interface is virtually identical to Notion 4. You will, however, have to download all the instruments individually. Make sure you have a very fast internet connection, preferably NOT wireless, as there are a lot of fairly large files:

http://www.notionmusic.com/support/notion3_sampleupdate.html

In terms of the sound quality, here's a few examples that are 99% Notion native libraries:

https://soundcloud.com/kmlandre/rescore-microcosmos-opening

https://soundcloud.com/kmlandre/noctis-chorea

https://soundcloud.com/kmlandre/dark-movements-pluto-eris-and-other-celestial-objects

Kurt M. Landre'
http://www.SoundCould.com/kmlandre


----------



## G-Sun (Oct 13, 2013)

Thanks!

I really don't need any score-sound-libraries (as long as I can use vst),
if it's not true VI-quality usable for DAW-work.

Downloading demo 



> That, in fact, is my biggest headache with Notion: fine-tuning some performance parameters. But it's certainly doable.


I was thinking Rewire and doing playback-tweaks in DAW, shouldn't that work?


----------



## kmlandre (Oct 13, 2013)

Indeed, you can use VIs very easily in Notion.

You can pipe the audio into a DAW through Rewire easily enough, but if you want to manipulate the MIDI playback with things like the modwheel, pitchebend, changing note on/off events, etc., you'll need to export plain MIDI files or MusicXML, then import into your DAW.

As for VI quality, yes, i't's definitely good - a few notches above Miroslav and Garrantim (IMO), but not in depth or cinematic as EWSO. Soundwise, it's definitely leans more towards a straight classical sound (whatever that means these days), but that doesn't mean you can't make things sound big. And Notion does come with a fairly healthy selection of articulations, so there's a lot of decent variety.

Hope that helps! 

And I know the PreSonus was offering a $30 discount for Notion, but I don't know if it's still running or where to find out...

Kurt M. Landre'
http://www.SoundCloud.com/kmlandre


----------



## G-Sun (Oct 13, 2013)

Thanks!

So, I can only Rewire audio out, not midi? That's a bummer..

And, the Notion Sounds, can I use them in a DAW as well,
or are they only available inside Notion?


----------



## kmlandre (Oct 13, 2013)

G-Sun @ Sun Oct 13 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> So, I can only Rewire audio out, not midi? That's a bummer..



Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but my understanding is that Rewire itself only supports audio and not midi, so the long and short of it is no.



G-Sun @ Sun Oct 13 said:


> And, the Notion Sounds, can I use them in a DAW as well,
> or are they only available inside Notion?



Well, using Rewire you can pipe the audio into your DAW. Rewire will keep the sync between your DAW host and the Notion client, so the answer there is yes.

Now, if you're asking if there is a VSTi that will host the Notion sounds, the answer is sadly no. I've been nagging after that, but they have yet to do it. I think they'd sell a LOT more copies because I think some people would buy it for the sounds alone, but they don't seem interested in doing that yet.

I wouldn't let that dissuade you, though. The point of buying Notion is for its notation capabilities and the sounds are just icing on the pie...

Kurt M. Landre
http://www.SoundCloud.com/kmlandre


----------



## G-Sun (Oct 14, 2013)

kmlandre @ Mon Oct 14 said:


> Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but my understanding is that Rewire itself only supports audio and not midi, so the long and short of it is no.


Ok, that is good to know


> Well, using Rewire you can pipe the audio into your DAW. Rewire will keep the sync between your DAW host and the Notion client, so the answer there is yes.


Well, but as I can't ReWire midi to Notion I can't really use it for anything else,


> Now, if you're asking if there is a VSTi that will host the Notion sounds, the answer is sadly no. I've been nagging after that, but they have yet to do it. I think they'd sell a LOT more copies because I think some people would buy it for the sounds alone, but they don't seem interested in doing that yet.
> 
> I wouldn't let that dissuade you, though. The point of buying Notion is for its notation capabilities and the sounds are just icing on the pie...


Yes, that's the important part.
But, I see clearer know how it can/can't work.
I'll try the v3 demo more and see how easy it is for composing, editing and then look at the formating. Any important aspects v3 vs. v4 I should be aware of?[/quote]


----------



## kmlandre (Oct 14, 2013)

G-Sun @ Sun Oct 13 said:


> kmlandre @ Mon Oct 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, using Rewire you can pipe the audio into your DAW. Rewire will keep the sync between your DAW host and the Notion client, so the answer there is yes.
> ...



You can certainly send midi into Notion and record it, as well as get midi out of Notion. But I'm not sure that gets you what you want...?



G-Sun @ Sun Oct 13 said:


> kmlandre @ Mon Oct 14 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll try the v3 demo more and see how easy it is for composing, editing and then look at the formating. Any important aspects v3 vs. v4 I should be aware of?



Yes - the biggest thing is that Notion 4 is 64 bit (Notion 3 is 32 bit only). There's some other less obvious differences, but that's the most important...

Kurt M. Landre'
http://www.SoundCloud.com/kmlandre


----------



## wcreed51 (Oct 15, 2013)

You can actually do quite a bit to shape playback. You can add additional sequencer staves that act as controller lanes. Controller data has to be played in though; you can't draw it in with the mouse. This pic also show the note length overlay, which allows you to drag the start/stop times of each note.


----------



## G-Sun (Oct 15, 2013)

Thanks!
Demoing and reading manual.
I believe Notion4 will fit my bill


----------



## korgscrew (Oct 16, 2013)

Im contemplating get notion.

But after reading this review, which doesnt slate it, it actually praises it.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr13/a ... tion-4.htm

There seems to be issues that you could encounter down the road, so actually paying a higher price for Sib or finale might be worth the ease of pain down the line.


----------



## kmlandre (Oct 16, 2013)

korgscrew @ Wed Oct 16 said:


> Im contemplating get notion.
> 
> But after reading this review, which doesnt slate it, it actually praises it.
> 
> ...



It really depends on what your workflow.

If you *must* have professionally printable parts and scores, then admittedly Notion is not the way to go (at least for the publishing aspect).

However, if your like myself and the act of notation *IS* the act of composition and orchestration, Notion can't be beat. Getting the raw music from my brain "to the page" is definitely least troublesome in Notion, at least for me.

Then, of course, there's auditioning the music back. Cubase worked for me because it directly supported VIs and of course has plenty of performance control. Finale was just cheesy and the last version I used was a real bear when it came to working with VIs (and very little performance control).

It's such a minimal investment ($99), it comes with a rich native sound set, it's easily exportable to various formats, it supports Rewire - I can't really see a reason somebody _shouldn't_ invest in it (if they're notation-centric like me).

Just my two bits.

Kurt M. Landre'
http://www.SoundCloud.com/kmlandre


----------



## korgscrew (Oct 16, 2013)

Kurt, I tottaly agree. 

Im wanting a notation bit of software to aid me for a thinkspace course im going to be doing, plus to help me re-wet my whitsle for theory. 

Its funny how people these days (including me) will scour reviews and make a desision on 1 or 2 Bad Review or Niggles. Blindly skipping 5 and 4* reviews.


----------



## G-Sun (Oct 16, 2013)

Bought Notion4

Seems pretty good,
but yes, seems to have some limitation for formating.
So, as the others says, if you need it for professional print,
then it's maybe not up to the job.
But, if you need decent print to hand out or something,
then most things are ok.

Good clean interface,
good soundset/vst/mixer,
miss some editing features (but that's maybe just getting used to how it is)

Maybe later I'll compose in DAW first, or maybe in Notion. We'll see


----------



## korgscrew (Oct 16, 2013)

Im thinking that composing on paper (or software) could be more intuitive than from scratch in a DAW. Im talking orchestration here by the way. To be able to see all the parts and staves and add to them, see and hear what works, what doesnt.

It makes you think how talented writers were (and still are) before technology existed.


----------



## G-Sun (Oct 16, 2013)

korgscrew @ Wed Oct 16 said:


> Im thinking that composing on paper (or software) could be more intuitive than from scratch in a DAW. Im talking orchestration here by the way. To be able to see all the parts and staves and add to them, see and hear what works, what doesnt.


Well, depends a little on your experience I guess. If you're good at note-reading and know your instruments well.


> It makes you think how talented writers were (and still are) before technology existed.


Yeah, that's amazing. Imagine writing a symphony just out of your head like that :shock:


----------



## korgscrew (Oct 16, 2013)

G-Sun @ Wed Oct 16 said:


> korgscrew @ Wed Oct 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Im thinking that composing on paper (or software) could be more intuitive than from scratch in a DAW. Im talking orchestration here by the way. To be able to see all the parts and staves and add to them, see and hear what works, what doesnt.
> ...



Pretty much why im taking Cinematic orchestration from Think space


----------



## kmlandre (Oct 16, 2013)

korgscrew @ Wed Oct 16 said:


> Im thinking that composing on paper (or software) could be more intuitive than from scratch in a DAW. Im talking orchestration here by the way. To be able to see all the parts and staves and add to them, see and hear what works, what doesnt.



It's definitely easier for me, but mainly because I was started on a classical education at a very early age. I actually have a lot more fun doing visua" composition (notation) than just playing stuff into a sequencer.

For some reason, doing it with the wiggles and scribbles just makes it seem more real and substantial. Plus, I can pick up on a lot of patterns visually that I just can't see with piano roll style writing and have no way of isolating "audiologically"...

Kurt M. Landre'


----------



## korgscrew (Oct 16, 2013)

Notion purchased 

Now. How to hook up with spitfire! :-/


----------



## kmlandre (Oct 16, 2013)

korgscrew @ Wed Oct 16 said:


> Notion purchased
> 
> Now. How to hook up with spitfire! :-/



Very cool! I recommend you install the 64 bit version, btw, especially with any large Kontakt library...

Kurt M. Landre'
http://www.SoundCloud.com/kmlandre


----------



## wcreed51 (Oct 16, 2013)

Better start brushing up on your XML!


----------



## G-Sun (Oct 16, 2013)

kmlandre @ Wed Oct 16 said:


> korgscrew @ Wed Oct 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Im thinking that composing on paper (or software) could be more intuitive than from scratch in a DAW. Im talking orchestration here by the way. To be able to see all the parts and staves and add to them, see and hear what works, what doesnt.
> ...


Ideally I'd compose away from the pc, but I'd be totally lost :D


----------



## G-Sun (Oct 16, 2013)

korgscrew @ Wed Oct 16 said:


> Notion purchased
> 
> Now. How to hook up with spitfire! :-/


Cool  Always a little learning-curve.


----------



## korgscrew (Oct 16, 2013)

Hmm looks a tad complicated.

Look guys, I have enough on de-rusting my theory!!

:lol:


----------



## G-Sun (Oct 16, 2013)

korgscrew @ Wed Oct 16 said:


> Hmm looks a tad complicated.
> 
> Look guys, I have enough on de-rusting my theory!!
> 
> :lol:


If you install the default library, it should take care of the basics.
If you start from a template, everything is supposed to be ready for action.


----------



## almound (Dec 11, 2013)

As an example of the possibilities of Notion 4, listen to the Soundcloud audio file that you can find here: https://plus.google.com/101716034593551904831/posts/HgjNS1HEjcK "Concerto pour Violon et orchestre de Cordes" by Yves Berranger. [Notion 4, the Synful Orchestra Strings, and Quantum Leap Space reverb] 

Sounds convincing, no?


----------



## SaintDufus (Sep 19, 2014)

I've been very happy with Notion 4.

I used Finale for a while, but I always thought the instrument sounds were lame. I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered Notion, which sounds much more realistic. (I understand the authenticity of the instrument sounds isn't a high priority for every notation program user, but for me it was a breath of fresh air.)

Another big attraction for me about Notion was the price: just $100 (compared to Finale's $600). At first I couldn't believe it, but it's true: Notion only costs a hundred bucks. Buying Notion instead of Finale saves you enough money to purchase any number of additional sound libraries or other applications--which you wouldn't be able to do if you spent six times as much on Finale.

Having used Notion now for the last year, I feel it compares favorably to Finale in every way as a notation program--and better in some ways. At 1/6 of the price, that's pretty impressive.

The Notion community isn't very big yet--the forum only has a handful of regular contributors (plus hordes of lurkers)--but there are some very talented composers in the group. Notion was recently purchased by PreSonus, which manufactures (among other things) a DAW called Studio One--also very affordable--which many people say is very good.


----------



## G-Sun (Sep 23, 2014)

Trying out Notion 4 as Rewire-slave to Reaper.

First it was really working well, sync, start/stop mostly everything,
but now it just seems unstable, and can't use it.

Anybody had success with this kind of setup?
( https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?t=2504 )


----------

