# Your orchestra Reference CD when it comes to SOUND



## germancomponist (Aug 13, 2009)

So many great orchestra recordings are aviable.

Who do you think has the best orchestra sound for cinema and who for TV?

I am not asking for the best compositions, only talking about orchestra *sound*.

Any CD or other medium tips?

Thanks!

Gunther


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## JohnG (Aug 13, 2009)

I keep enjoying Joel Iwataki's scores. Has done a lot of work for James Newton Howard and Elliott Goldenthal.

Everything is very present and "there" -- he preserves the detail but gets scale too, all with a light touch on the reverb.

Specific scores I love: Titus, King Kong, and Michael Collins.

He also does some "smaller" stuff that sounds great, like "Lars and the Real Girl."

(there are lots of great mixers -- Others I like a lot are Armin Steiner and Dan Wallin)


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## mikebarry (Aug 13, 2009)

Basic Instinct for silky strings, love that one.


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## germancomponist (Aug 13, 2009)

Thanks John and Mike. I will have a listen.

An the others?


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## Dave Connor (Aug 13, 2009)

Any of John Williams stuff I would think.


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## germancomponist (Aug 13, 2009)

In the last days I have listend to some pieces played by the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra and I like their sound very very much.

John Williams too, sure.


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Aug 14, 2009)

When I listen to recordings from the Concertgebouw on the radio, I often recognize it. That hall is really so beautiful! I guess they use a standard set of mics hung from the ceiling.

James Newton Howards recordings are my favorites. I also find the extended version of Star Wars Episode I still pretty amazing.


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## lux (Aug 14, 2009)

empire strikes back
JNH Peter Pan
Lilo & Stich
Indipendence Day
Pleasantville

among others


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## Simon Ravn (Aug 14, 2009)

E.T.


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## germancomponist (Aug 14, 2009)

And?


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## castaliamusic (Aug 14, 2009)

Strictly speaking about orchestra sound, anything by the Chicago Symphony. That brass are unbeatable!


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## Dave Connor (Aug 14, 2009)

Agree on Chicago. Great recordings coming out of there for decades no matter who's conducting. The Solti stuff amazing, not the least the Beethoven. Also Solti Wagner Operas there just stunning.


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## RiffWraith (Aug 14, 2009)

Depends what you are doing - you would listen to different cds for different types of scores and music.

If you are scoring 'When Harry Met Sally 2', and it's a full orchestral score, you wouldn't use 'Lord Of The Rings' as a reference. But you might want to use 'LOTR' as a reference if you are scoring 'Highlander 87' (or whatever they are up to).

'The Mummy' (especially the high strings and Horns) 'King Kong' and 'Van Helsing' are three magnificent sounding scores. 'The Dark Night' is sonically fantastic as well, but in a different way than most other scores; it has a certain sound - a certain 'darkness' to it that works well for what it is, but might not work so well for other things.

I have also heard others say 'Aliens' is a great reference; having only listened once in a friend's car makes me unable to comment there.

That said, if you are doing mockups, sure you should compare to and reference orchestral cds, but you should also compare to and reference other mockups. Guy's mockups are some of the best that I have heard (I think most would agree). Using some of his works would be a good reference; but only if you are using primarily what he uses - which I believe to be VSL. If you use mostly EWQL and Project SAM stuff, Guy's mockups may not be the way to go for comparison. Then there is Mike Verta's 'Star Trek' mock-up:

http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... light=trek

That is as good a mockup to use for comparison as any.

Cheers.


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## Rob (Aug 15, 2009)

Boston Symphony


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## Jaap (Aug 15, 2009)

Kancheli - Mourned by the Wind - for extreme dynamics (extremely soft beginning with load burst half ways)

Mahler - Symhony no.5 - Adagietto - for strings (Haitink - Concertgebouw orchestra)

Shostakovich - Symphony no.10 and 11 - no.10 for total orchestral sounding and no.11 second part for a quick movement, tutti sound and percussion burst at 3/4 of the movement (Rostropovich with Moskou symphony orchestra)

Ravel - Daphnis et Cloé - for warm lushy sound (City of Birningham Orchestra - Simon Rattle)

Soundtrack - Perfume: story of a murderer - rich warm sound with vocals (Berliner Philharmonik - Simon Rattle)

Edit: as game composer I tend to also take some mp3 and ogg files (low compression) to hear how they sound on the monitors since a lot of times I am asked to deliver in that format.


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## germancomponist (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks Roberto and Jaap!


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## synthetic (Aug 16, 2009)

Williams - Harry Potter and the Sorcerers' Stone
Zimmer/Howard - The Dark Knight
John Powell - X Men: The Last Stand

I like Alan Meyerson and Shawn Murphy. A more ambient, big and fat mix than some of the other guys out there, but still manages to have great definition.


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## Aaron Sapp (Aug 16, 2009)

Joe Hisaishi - "Spirited Away"
John Williams - "Star Wars: Episode I"
Wojciech Kilar - "Bram Stoker's Dracula"
Michael Giachinno - "Ratatouille"


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## Frederick Russ (Aug 16, 2009)

For scoring mix references, I've found the following the most useful for me:

Film Symphonic:

John Williams: Star Wars Episode I, action sequences from Episode II
John Powell: Ice Age Meltdown, Dr Seuss' Horton Hears a Who

Scoring Stage References:

John Debney: Zathura
Marc Shaiman: American President
John Williams: Star Wars Episode V
James Newton Howard: Wyatt Earp

Symphonic Orchestral:

John Williams: American Jubilee, American Journey 2002 Winter Games
André Previn & Royal Philharmonic Orchestra: 
- Crown Imperial from Walton: Symphony No. 1 - Orb & Sceptre
- Elgar: The Symphonies - The Pomp & Circumstance Marches


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## germancomponist (Aug 16, 2009)

So many great tips here. Thank you all!

I will buy some of your suggested pieces and listen.


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## Libra63 (Sep 19, 2009)

When it comes to sound please have a listen to:

Valentin Silvestrov Metamusik and Postludium
ECM records 2003

Cheers 
Libra63


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## stevenson-again (Sep 19, 2009)

gee the number of records here i use as a reference as well.

eg Peter Pan JNH
John Powell Iceage meltdown as well and X-men last stand.

My most specific ones are:
John Williams:
- HP Azkabhan
- SW Chase Through the Coruscant
- Munich

JNH:
- Sixth Sense (surprised no one else mentioned that). i actually mocked up the opening cue as an exercise. very revealing esp about how much reverb to use etc etc.
- Peter Pan. Likewise, years ago as an exercise i did my own opening using his score as a temp.

Thomas Newman:
- Series of Unfortunate Events.

Lately, and owing to the nature of my current project, Beowulf by Alan Silvestri. that is an amazing score. well worth a listen away from the movie where it gets buried too much. his ripoff of basic instinct in the scene with anglina jolie as the dragon is simply sublime.

(just in case i start an argument using the word 'ripoff' i should qualify it with 'borrowed' or 'inspired by'. it was absolutely the right the thing to do in that context, has its own spin and character. awesome writing.)


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## michel (Sep 19, 2009)

My suggestions:

Pirates of the Caribbean - At World's End -- (I like the production / mix (depth - reverb) and of course the music)
Transformers -- (Cool mix as well and the music, too)

So basically everything mixed by Alan Meyerson! =o


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## kgdrum (Sep 19, 2009)

castaliamusic @ Fri Aug 14 said:


> Strictly speaking about orchestra sound, anything by the Chicago Symphony. That brass are unbeatable!




+1 Reiner /Chicago Symphony performing Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra; Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta is amazing!
I don't know which performance was used but Bartok's music worked well in The Shining :shock:


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## Mr. Anxiety (Sep 21, 2009)

John Powell's X-Men Last Stand has a brilliant sound for a film score. The room sound, the spatial qualities are excellent.

I use Respighi's Belkis-Queen of Sheba 

Chandos Philharmonia Orchestra/Geoffrey Simon 

as my symphonic reference disc. The music is film like, so it helps bridge the gap between filmscore and orchestral sounding recordings.


Very subjective!

Mr. Anxiety


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## gsilbers (Sep 21, 2009)

oh man , the loudest by far, the one album that makes me turn the volume down after so many other soundtrack cds is bryan tyler's eagle eye, man that thing is really fukin loud. 

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## germancomponist (Sep 21, 2009)

What I can tell you aftrer listening to so many great recordings is the big sound-different between real strings and libs. 

Is there only one string lib where you can play from pp to ff what sounds real?

Perhaps Peter and Giorgio will built string libs in the same way as "the trumpet". o/~


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## Stevie (Sep 24, 2009)

We all eagerly hope that


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## germancomponist (Sep 24, 2009)

Smile,

I think P & G have a long wish list under their pillows. :-D


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## Stevie (Sep 27, 2009)

Oh yeah, absolutely


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## David Story (Sep 27, 2009)

Mike's right. He's recording and mixing live orchestra sessions often, and gets stunning cinematic audio that producers love. (good to see you here man)


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## germancomponist (Sep 28, 2009)

I think a big different between real orchestras and sample based recordings is also the tuning. You know, all players tune the notes while listening to each others?!

Sample libraries work with 12 tones, real orchestras work with 300 or more tones. o/~ 

Wendy Carlos did some great work on the CD`s "The Well-Tempered Synthesizer" and "Secrets of Synthesis". Ok, synthesizers, but good to use as examples.

It is woròBo   ±9,


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## JohnG (Sep 28, 2009)

maarvold @ 27th September 2009 said:


> the key to this [writing better] is understanding what skilled composers have done in the past with real players, and why they did it that way. And a very effective way to do this is just by listening to a lot of live music.... In short, it will give a clearer view of the target to aim for.



Yes indeed. 

And if possible, listening with the score open to learn _how_ they get the sound. 

One can learn a lot about harmony and melody (and even a fair amount about register and orchestration) from books and working with samples, but still come up short with a large, live orchestra. I write pretty differently for live guys than for samples.


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## Niah (Sep 28, 2009)

I don't have a specific CD as a reference

I always seem to find something that can work as a guide to what I am working at the moment...It depends largely on the "style" too IMO

anyway I do have some favs, some have already been mentioned but on the top of my head:

"murder in the first degree", "the hurricane" by christopher young

"solaris" by cliff martinez

"the duchess" by rachel portman 

"lust caution" by alexandre desplat

and I could go on


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## germancomponist (Sep 28, 2009)

JohnG @ Tue Sep 29 said:


> maarvold @ 27th September 2009 said:
> 
> 
> > the key to this [writing better] is understanding what skilled composers have done in the past with real players, and why they did it that way. And a very effective way to do this is just by listening to a lot of live music.... In short, it will give a clearer view of the target to aim for.
> ...



A good point, John! So that means with samples you can`t *sound* as a real orchestra. I agree. o/~


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## scottbuckley (Sep 29, 2009)

Aaron Sapp @ Mon Aug 17 said:


> Joe Hisaishi - "Spirited Away"


Big tick from me.
-s


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