# Sample Modeling The Trumpet v3



## Daryl (Jul 3, 2015)

Just in case anyone is interested:

http://www.samplemodeling.com/en/products_trumpet.php

D


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## Jack Weaver (Jul 3, 2015)

Hi Daryl,

Is there anything new to the actual Trumpet itself, outside of the ambience aspects of the release? Is there any new control over the sound of the samples themselves?
I'm pretty happy with the reflected glory I can already add to V2. Installing something I'm not likely to use doesn't interest me. 

Thanks

.


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 3, 2015)

Jack Weaver said:


> Is there anything new to the actual Trumpet itself, outside of the ambience aspects of the release? Is there any new control over the sound of the samples themselves?


Scroll down a little, there's a list with all the new features. I've never used that trumpet, but it sounds like some of the new stuff is interesting for V2 users.


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## PerryD (Jul 3, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> Scroll down a little, there's a list with all the new features. I've never used that trumpet, but it sounds like some of the new stuff is interesting for V2 users.


The instruments are improved. The Flugelhorn is especially nice!


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## rgarber (Jul 3, 2015)

Hey Daryl, thanks for the tip! I didn't get anything in the email about this but I jumped on this as soon as I read your post.


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## Jack Weaver (Jul 3, 2015)

Well, the Timbral Shaping may be of interest.... Now if any of my clients ever ask for any other brass than french horn I'll give it a whirl. 


_*Real time Timbral Shaping.* This revolutionary new feature adds a virtually infinite timbral variety to sample-based instruments, by acting on the amplitude of individual harmonics, or groups of harmonics, even in real time. This is not a graphic equalizer; the controlling bars are not assigned to fixed frequencies, but to the first 10 harmonics of the played note. As a consequence, the affected frequencies vary with the pitch of the note. So, rising, for example, bar #1 will boost the fundamental frequency (first harmonic) of each note played, yielding a rounder sound. Rising bars #3, #4, #5 will increase the intensity of the corresponding harmonics for a more "nasal" sound, etc._


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## Echoes in the Attic (Jul 3, 2015)

Whoa that's crazy. I just went to the Sample Modeling site yesterday to try to find news about when the Trumpet and French Horn/Tuba V3 updates were going to come. The Trombone V3 was a huge step up, been waiting for this.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 3, 2015)

Daryl said:


> Just in case anyone is interested:
> 
> http://www.samplemodeling.com/en/products_trumpet.php
> 
> D



I'll probably upgrade tonight - have you tried it yet, Daryl?


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## Daryl (Jul 3, 2015)

NYC Composer said:


> I'll probably upgrade tonight - have you tried it yet, Daryl?


Yes, I think its fantastic.

D


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## lumcas (Jul 3, 2015)

Just jumped on the upgrade. Bought the original back in 2010. It's still one of the most expressive libraries I've come across, and now probably even better. Can't wait to give it a spin!


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## jason.d (Jul 3, 2015)

I upgraded today. Definitely worth the 30 euros and love the new features! Bravo!!!


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## Echoes in the Attic (Jul 3, 2015)

Now we wait for the French form and Tuba update for the same features as the trombone and trumpet..


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## LHall (Jul 4, 2015)

Can't wait to get this. Unfortunately, I'm still on Snow Leopard and can't seem to update Kontakt to 5.4.2. I was able to get 5.3.1 working using Pacifist, but it's not working on 5.4.2. Anyone have any suggestions for getting it working - aside from biting the bullet and upgrading my system (which I know I'll have to do before long)? Looks like it won't even work if I upgrade to Lion.


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## Svakenakis (Jul 4, 2015)

The new version is really cool. I got it.


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## lumcas (Jul 5, 2015)

LHall said:


> Can't wait to get this. Unfortunately, I'm still on Snow Leopard and can't seem to update Kontakt to 5.4.2. I was able to get 5.3.1 working using Pacifist, but it's not working on 5.4.2. Anyone have any suggestions for getting it working - aside from biting the bullet and upgrading my system (which I know I'll have to do before long)? Looks like it won't even work if I upgrade to Lion.



I was on 10.6.8 for a loooong time, upgraded to 10.8.5 this spring because of compatibility problems with newer software and I must say I couldn't be happier. I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade if you're not in the middle of a project. I'm surprised it doesn't work using Pacifist anymore as this was what I did back then. Have you tried changing kontakt 5 component - info.playlist to 10.6.8?


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## LHall (Jul 5, 2015)

Unfortunately, I'm on the early Mac Pro 1,1. I can only go to Lion without doing a lot of complex mods that are too scary for my geek level. But tell me a little more about the info.playlist thing. How exactly do I do that?


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## NYC Composer (Jul 5, 2015)

lumcas said:


> I was on 10.6.8 for a loooong time, upgraded to 10.8.5 this spring because of compatibility problems with newer software and I must say I couldn't be happier. I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade if you're not in the middle of a project. I'm surprised it doesn't work using Pacifist anymore as this was what I did back then. Have you tried changing kontakt 5 component - info.playlist to 10.6.8?



As someone in the same boat, did you go directly from Snow Leopard to 10.85 with no in between steps? Did you experience any compatibility problems with VEP or any of your older instruments?


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## dfhagai (Jul 5, 2015)

Can someone finally explain to me how can you do physical modelling within Kontakt?
It's a sampler...I don't get it


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 5, 2015)

dfhagai said:


> It's a sampler...I don't get it


From what I gather, it's all done via Kontakt Scripting. 
Basically that means Kontakt is much more than a sampler - it is capable of physical modeling.

Maybe someone else will chime in and explain this a bit more detailed.


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## Daryl (Jul 5, 2015)

dfhagai said:


> Can someone finally explain to me how can you do physical modelling within Kontakt?
> It's a sampler...I don't get it


I think that there are base samples and everything else is done with filters.

D


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## playz123 (Jul 5, 2015)

Daryl said:


> I think that there are base samples and everything else is done with filters.
> 
> D


From the manual:
"Our virtual instrument uses recorded samples of real trumpet as base material. This proved to be the best choice to preserve the timbral characteristics of the original instrument. We used state- of-the-art recording techniques, including multi-microphone placement, according to the radiation characteristics of the instrument. But we went beyond. All sounds were recorded in an anechoic chamber. To our knowledge, The Trumpet, The Trombone and French Horn & Tuba are the only sample-based anechoic virtual instruments developed so far." 

PS: Thanks, Daryl, for the heads-up about this update. I probably wouldn't have seen it for awhile otherwise.


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## ModalRealist (Jul 6, 2015)

Can anyone comment on whether the Trumpet v3 is easier to place in an orchestral or studio orchestra context? I've always been so tempted by these VIs, but I have a deep, deep fear of not being able to get them sounding properly.


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## Daryl (Jul 6, 2015)

ModalRealist said:


> Can anyone comment on whether the Trumpet v3 is easier to place in an orchestral or studio orchestra context? I've always been so tempted by these VIs, but I have a deep, deep fear of not being able to get them sounding properly.


Yes, it's dead easy. Load instrument, pan, distance (within the SM GUI), send to your reverb and you're good to go.

D


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## vicontrolu (Jul 6, 2015)

This is good stuff. Attacks are independent from the dynamics control, the ERs sound just as they are supposed to and the distance control works nice too. Nice work!


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## Geocranium (Jul 6, 2015)

Can someone post a demo of the Trumpet V3, preferably in an orchestral context? I'd love to hear it.

I'd also like to hear what the ensemble mode sounds like.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 6, 2015)

It all depends what you call physical modeling. That's always been a slightly nebulous term.

As I understand it, "physical modeling" generally means the waveform is calculated by an algorithm based on a model (Karplus-Strong, waveguide, whatever). Whether it's done that way or stored as a sample may not be what makes the biggest difference to the end result. The processing is probably the main thing.

Sample Modeling is something else, but I don't know how their system works.


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## Vin (Jul 8, 2015)

Geocranium said:


> Can someone post a demo of the Trumpet V3, preferably in an orchestral context? I'd love to hear it.
> 
> I'd also like to hear what the ensemble mode sounds like.



+1

It looks fantastic, but I'm kinda sceptical about the ease of use in orchestral context, especially with other wet samples.


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## KingIdiot (Jul 8, 2015)

dfhagai said:


> Can someone finally explain to me how can you do physical modelling within Kontakt?
> It's a sampler...I don't get it



It's not pure Physical Modeling (and never stated that it is), it's a bit of a hybrid option they've developed and updated over time. Using traditional recordings as the base, then analyzing and sometimes deconstructing them, and having the sampler trigger the correct audio to recreate audio but allow for real time playable instrument. Among the scripting there's probably a lot of other things going on under the hood with all of Kontakt's filters, envelopes, convolver, effects...etc

While Kontakt is mostly a sample playback engine, Sample Modeling itself is no concept that's "just samples", but also isn't relying on straight mathematics to create audio out of thin cpu.

personally. I'm interested in the Timbral Shaper. I've had a real time concept with that floating in my head for a little while now. I think it's all neat stuff, even if I don't have any of the products. (I did want them all a while back when making music for things was the focus, now I kinda just wait for updates and read/listen, and smile to see how parallel Giorgio's/Sample modeling's approach are to some of this stuff... even if it's way different too, then trying to see if I can wonder what they are up to. It's like sending riddles to an old friend).

Still some of my fave developers, because it's definitely such tricky work, and they've been up to it for so long.


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## dfhagai (Jul 9, 2015)

But how far can you go with only filters involved?
Where's all the math talked about on they're "Technology" falls into place?
http://www.samplemodeling.com/en/technology.php

EDIT:
Just saw your reply Kinidiot. you should change your name  thanks for the info!


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## rgarber (Jul 9, 2015)

Earlier in the thread I researched the price and it was $263 for The Saxes, today it's $296.


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## sleepy hollow (Jul 9, 2015)

rgarber said:


> Earlier in the thread I researched the price and it was $263 for The Saxes, today it's $296.


They offer two bundles, maybe you mixed those up?
*The Saxophones *and *The Sax Brothers 
*


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## rgarber (Jul 9, 2015)

sleepy hollow said:


> They offer two bundles, maybe you mixed those up?
> *The Saxophones *and *The Sax Brothers *



Sorry, you're right. Current price is The Saxophones for $296 (SWAM engine) and The Sax Brothers for $273. Thanks for pointing that out. I thought I had clicked on the SWAM price earlier in this thread.

Which here again is my confusion. Why only $20 difference if one is 'so much better' than the other and why even sell the previous version still? It's no biggie, I just don't get it. Of course they set the price and it's their product, and I respect that. But when I went through all of this, I think a couple of years ago, with such a small price difference though I think it was larger then, it seems they're the same product. Listening to the demos (way back when and there wasn't many) I wasn't sure what the difference was so I figured to stay with what I had The Sax Brothers.

I'm a big fan of Sample Modeling and use their stuff quite frequently though not exclusively and would still argue the other libraries are just as good. I mostly use Sample Modeling for solo-ing instruments but many times I also use my other libraries for solo-ing instruments as well. Not sure on the playing live stuff, I don't have a reason to do that so no comment there.


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## reddognoyz (Jul 9, 2015)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> It all depends what you call physical modeling. That's always been a slightly nebulous term
> 
> Sample Modeling is something else, but I don't know how their system works.



Sample Modeling phase aligns the different dynamics so you can crossfade though them without any phasing artifacts.


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## KingIdiot (Jul 9, 2015)

reddognoyz said:


> Sample Modeling phase aligns the different dynamics so you can crossfade though them without any phasing artifacts.



it is quite a bit more than that. That was early on, they've since added a bunch of new things and have a few new approaches that go beyond just the ability to X-fade between samples, which with today's editing tools is a bit simpler to do in various ways.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jul 9, 2015)

And yeah, Stuart, I did get that much.


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## germancomponist (Jul 10, 2015)

I downloaded mine today and I am very very impressed. How cool is this?


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## kurtvanzo (Jul 10, 2015)

I downloaded and compared v.3 to v.2.5.2 and I do feel there is more clarity and punch to the notes, but that could be the phase aligning. Always felt 2.5 was a bit synthetic sounding solo'ed but now that's gone. Also the port function (by overlapping notes) is much more pronounced and easy to control. Definitely an improvement and puts theses at the top of my solo and jazz list.


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## Lawson. (Jul 10, 2015)

Ahhhhhh I'm just finishing up a project with v2.5.2 and now I feel like I should've upgraded to v3. Is it THAT much better or is it just minor things?


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## playz123 (Jul 10, 2015)

Lawson. said:


> Ahhhhhh I'm just finishing up a project with v2.5.2 and now I feel like I should've upgraded to v3. Is it THAT much better or is it just minor things?



Only my opinion of course, but yes, I do feel it's much better and certainly worth the price of the upgrade. Going through the manual I see quite a bit that is "New" as well.


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## Lawson. (Jul 10, 2015)

playz123 said:


> Only my opinion of course, but yes, I do feel it's much better and certainly worth the price of the upgrade. Going through the manual I see quite a bit that is "New" as well.



Just bought it! Can't wait to test it out!

EDIT: Super duper impressed. It may just be the placebo effect but I genuinely think it sounds crisper and more realistic. Great use of $35!


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## Geocranium (Jul 12, 2015)

Still looking forward to a demo. I need let my ears know if it's worth it!


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## Pablocrespo (Aug 5, 2015)

I did today a small test with SM brass and trumpet 3.0
It´s using the virtual soundstage included in trumpets and trombones, and fed to a full orch spaces preset. The trumpets have a bit of eq to tame the high freqs.

the final mix has a little comp and eq, bare in mind it´s a quick test, and feedback is welcomed




I have a mock up of finlandia which I should update with the trumpet 3.0 (lass + BWW)


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## dreddiknight (Aug 20, 2015)

I've been lookingat Sample Modeling recently, and was wondering what peoplethink think of their horns?
I'm looking for a jazzy/funky sound and am finding certain things difficult with Vir 2's Mojo Horns. The trumpet and saxophones are what I'm looking at.
I was also wondering if they ever have sales? 
Sorry if this is a hijack, but Ii thought I'd ask here rather than start a new thread.


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## kurtvanzo (Aug 20, 2015)

You'll need a good expression pedal (or a $20 volume pedal with USB adapter from http://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php ) but both the saxes and trumpets are tops- quality sound with expression from soft to blown out, with vibrato, growl, tight staccato that equally goes from soft to brassy. They also work great with a breathe controller, but I get by fine with just a keyboard. If you have the $$$ to purchase both sets and grab Carpenter's Trombone, you have a great funk section.  Or SM Trombones if your loaded. 

http://ivyaudio.com/Carpenter-Trombone

Sample Modeling rarely does sales, but occasionally they will discount something new or that has a new update- I picked up the trumpet's on version 2 and the version 3 upgrade was (I think) $35. good investment  the version 3 is clearer, feels punchier and works well in the mix- the saxes work even better.


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## dreddiknight (Aug 20, 2015)

kurtvanzo said:


> You'll need a good expression pedal (or a $20 volume pedal with USB adapter from http://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php ) but both the saxes and trumpets are tops- quality sound with expression from soft to blown out, with vibrato, growl, tight staccato that equally goes from soft to brassy. They also work great with a breathe controller, but I get by fine with just a keyboard. If you have the $$$ to purchase both sets and grab Carpenter's Trombone, you have a great funk section.
> 
> http://ivyaudio.com/Carpenter-Trombone
> 
> Sample Modeling rarely does sales, but occasionally they will discount something new or that has a new update- I picked up the trumpet's on version 2 and the version 3 upgrade was (I think) $35. good investment


Thank you! I got the feeling they didn't do sales. Yeah i have an expression pedal, and that trombone looks great. Never heard of it before this so appreciate the heads up.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 20, 2015)

I recently did three MIDI demos for an independent Brazilian bluesrock/funk artist, adding horns to rhythm tracks he sent. I used all SampleModeling for the demos. The client was knocked out and gave me the gig, which was later done by two sections of live horns, two tracks used five horns each and one track had ten. All mocked up with SM only. The expression pedal or breath controller is crucial, as are the keyswitches on the trumpets and bones.


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## studioj (Aug 21, 2015)

Pablocrespo said:


> I did today a small test with SM brass and trumpet 3.0
> It´s using the virtual soundstage included in trumpets and trombones, and fed to a full orch spaces preset. The trumpets have a bit of eq to tame the high freqs.
> 
> the final mix has a little comp and eq, bare in mind it´s a quick test, and feedback is welcomed
> ...




Great sound! nicely done.


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## Gzu (Aug 27, 2015)

Another Demo with Trumpets and Trombones V 3.

Hope you like it!!!


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Aug 27, 2015)

I have Trumpet v3 and love it, but sometimes I use this. http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=25

It is a jewel and it is only *€ 39.00*


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## dreddiknight (Aug 28, 2015)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> I have Trumpet v3 and love it, but sometimes I use this. http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=25
> 
> It is a jewel and it is only *€ 39.00*


Is it 32bit only, or 64 bit compatible?


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Aug 28, 2015)

dreddiknight said:


> Is it 32bit only, or 64 bit compatible?



32 bit only but works seamlessly with jBridge. By itself it may make you go so what, but with a track, it sounds great. It is of no comparison to SampleModeling, but it more than gets the job done for cheap.


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## kurtvanzo (Aug 28, 2015)

SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. said:


> I have Trumpet v3 and love it, but sometimes I use this. http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=25
> 
> It is a jewel and it is only *€ 39.00*



Looks great and seems like a great option, thanks  but PC only. :/


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Aug 28, 2015)

kurtvanzo said:


> Looks great and seems like a great option, thanks  but PC only. :/



Really? Is it not VSTi? Wow. It must be Direct X then. I had no idea. It just appears on my list. Sorry Mac Koolaid drinkers. You lost out on something cool because of your choice. No worries. I just got paid back. I can never use Alchemy 2 because of my choice.


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## reddognoyz (Aug 31, 2015)

afaik the Sample modeling instruments in Kontakt and SWAM aren't physically modeled, they are built with samples that are time aligned so there is no phasing etc. when crossfading through the dynamic levels.


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## LondonMike (Aug 31, 2015)

I've recently bought the saxophones (SWAM) and I'm on the brink of getting the trombone and the trumpet. But, the one thing that makes me apprehensive is that I've found the saxes very hard to integrate into an orchestral context. I've been messing around with reverb settings such as one I found in a video by Blakus for the B2 reverb.

The saxes are very expressive and really great fun to just play and I bet the trumpet and trombone are likewise.
I see that the V.3 have the ability to be placed in a soundstage so I hope they will blend into an orchestra better.

For jazz/rock I think the saxes work well and I expect the others to as well but I may just hang on to see what the new Straight Ahead Sample's soon to be released library is like.


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## Fakemaxwelll (Aug 14, 2019)

LondonMike said:


> But, the one thing that makes me apprehensive is that I've found the saxes very hard to integrate into an orchestral context.


I can report that this is also a problem in real life


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## synthetic (Aug 14, 2019)

I don't care if they impulse responsed a banana peel they are the most realistic solo instruments you can get. I have a breath controller (like, every one) but I rarely use them. I use a fader controller, one finger on CC1+11 (actually I think SM doesn't use 11), another finger on vibrato speed and depth whatever those are. If you rise and fall depth and speed together it sounds amazing, like "OK that can't be a sample." I have the trumpet, horn and tuba, I haven't bought the trombone or other instruments yet. Often I'll do a pass of horn or trumpet section like Spitfire Symphonic, then I'll layer the Sample Modeling on top of that. Blend those together and it sounds hella phat.


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## Leon Portelance (Aug 14, 2019)

How do you find the upgrade?


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