# Nice Studio Monitors without Hiss?



## proxima

So I'm looking for new studio monitors, but with a particular quirk: I really hate the amp hiss/white noise that many (most?) active monitors have, even without inputs. Hum would be even worse, though the monitors currently in that space have no hum. It's just a very quiet room and I'm annoyed by hissing noise when they're not actively playing sound. 

Given some convincing, my budget is up to about $1500, which I admit is influenced by the cost of Adam A7Xs. As best I can tell from some googling around, they are rather prone to a white noise hiss. I've also taken a look at Dynaudio BM5 mk iiis (at the other end of my price range), and they too are quite prone to hiss.

The easy answer is that I need to find some showroom with everything set up and listen for myself, but at least in the case of Adam dealers, the nearest one is a non-trivial drive. So I was hoping I could get some pointers about where to look. Maybe the answer is passive monitors? That makes the shopping more complicated, but I'd appreciate any pointers there as well. Or maybe the answer is just to suck it up and get used to it. I confess to keeping my current hissy monitors off almost all the time for this reason.

Thanks!


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## Monkey Man

Event Opals will serve you well if you can find and afford them.


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## tack

This ought to be an easy criterion to satisfy, but yes it does require some first hand experience to navigate those waters.

I have the Focal CMS65, which are mighty fine hissless monitors.


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## Gerhard Westphalen

Most speakers should be OK but it obviously depends on the noise floor of your room and how far you are from the speakers. In my room I have some JBL 705p's which I can hear hissing from about 1m away but my room is exceptionally quite (soundproofed room underground with speaker hiss being the only thing that makes noise in the room...) and I'd say they are quieter that most speakers. The 305 are probably about as quiet as most. I think the Dynaudio Bm5 mk3 are a little louder that other speakers around.


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## proxima

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Most speakers should be OK but it obviously depends on the noise floor of your room and how far you are from the speakers. In my room I have some JBL 705p's which I can hear hissing from about 1m away but my room is exceptionally quite (soundproofed room underground with speaker hiss being the only thing that makes noise in the room...) and I'd say they are quieter that most speakers. The 305 are probably about as quiet as most. I think the Dynaudio Bm5 mk3 are a little louder that other speakers around.


Yes, the distance is an issue. In my current setup I'll be within 1m, though some monitors hiss so much I can hear them from 3m away in a quiet room.


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## Gerhard Westphalen

proxima said:


> Yes, the distance is an issue. In my current setup I'll be within 1m, though some monitors hiss so much I can hear them from 3m away in a quiet room.


The problem with the Dynaudios is that they have a bit of a high frequency buzz instead of just something closer to white noise. I'm not sure how the newer generation is. 

You should mention what you have now as they can potentially be noisier than everything else around. Conversely, they might be quieter than everything else and you'll never be happy.

I'd stay away from passive speakers. If you do get passive speakers then you'll need to either build an L-pad or get an amp with a gain knob on it like a Parasound otherwise you'll probably end up with more noise than on most active monitors.


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## proxima

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> You should mention what you have now as they can potentially be noisier than everything else around. Conversely, they might be quieter than everything else and you'll never be happy.
> 
> I'd stay away from passive speakers. If you do get passive speakers then you'll need to either build an L-pad or get an amp with a gain knob on it like a Parasound otherwise you'll probably end up with more noise than on most active monitors.


I have Presonus Eris E5s, a highly disappointing choice on so many levels.


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## Gerhard Westphalen

proxima said:


> I have Presonus Eris E5s, a highly disappointing choice on so many levels.


I'd go to a shop and listen to the noise from other speakers to compare. Would be even better if you could take your Eris in.


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## markleake

Would a brand like EVE Audio remove the hissing, given they use a different signal chain internally than most other monitors?
I've not noticed any hiss on mine, but they are further away and not in a quiet environment, and I haven't listened specifically for that.
I'll have to listen closely when get home.


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## markleake

Yep... my EVEs have hiss. Probably the same as most other monitors, but I don't have much to comare them to.


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## MjS

Love my JBL305s for the money but they do have a slight hiss, audible when near them (<1m).


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## Daily Patcher

I would think this is something you need to test out first hand yourself... anecdotes are well and fine but you never know if the person on the other end is not experiencing a hiss that is in fact noticeable to you for whatever myriad of reasons.


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## Patrick.K

proxima said:


> So I'm looking for new studio monitors, but with a particular quirk: I really hate the amp hiss/white noise that many (most?) active monitors have, even without inputs. Hum would be even worse, though the monitors currently in that space have no hum. It's just a very quiet room and I'm annoyed by hissing noise when they're not actively playing sound.
> 
> Given some convincing, my budget is up to about $1500, which I admit is influenced by the cost of Adam A7Xs. As best I can tell from some googling around, they are rather prone to a white noise hiss. I've also taken a look at Dynaudio BM5 mk iiis (at the other end of my price range), and they too are quite prone to hiss.
> 
> The easy answer is that I need to find some showroom with everything set up and listen for myself, but at least in the case of Adam dealers, the nearest one is a non-trivial drive. So I was hoping I could get some pointers about where to look. Maybe the answer is passive monitors? That makes the shopping more complicated, but I'd appreciate any pointers there as well. Or maybe the answer is just to suck it up and get used to it. I confess to keeping my current hissy monitors off almost all the time for this reason.
> 
> Thanks!



I have a pair of Yamaha HS 80s, so fairly standard monitors, and I have never heard any hiss or background noise.I sit at 2 meters.
These monitors are excellent for the price.
Take a test in store.


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## Robert Kooijman

Since a few weeks we have a pair of IK Multimedia iLoud MTM's.
They are totally quiet, don't hear any hiss at all from 1m near-field distance. Definitely an improvement over some other "famous" monitors with build-in class-D amps.

Apart from that they just sound awesome. Or better said: they don't "sound" at all, very neutral. And the bass is also amazing, haven't felt the need to hook up a subwoofer


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## markleake

Just to reiterate what a few others have said, people saying they don't hear any hiss is probably more due to how far away and what environment they are listening in than the actual speakers. All powered speakers will have hiss.

You really need to go listen in store, and listen up close to them to compare. Even then you might want to listen to the actual pair of speakers you buy if you really are sensitive to this, as the hiss could vary between speakers of the same model. It's the nature of electronics.


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## KallumS

Iswhatitis said:


> Save your money and get JBL 308s the version II have no hum or noise and sound great. Plus what are people listening to in theaters, JBL. The 308s were just on sale for $135 each on musiciansfriend and Amazon. For the money you could get a 5.1 setup too. I have Genelec 1030a which are awesome, but for the money you cannot beat the 308.



My JBL 308 MK2s hiss like crazy.

Also, OP, are you _the _Proxima? DnB extraordinaire?


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## proxima

KallumS said:


> Also, OP, are you _the _Proxima? DnB extraordinaire?


Nope!


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## pderbidge

KallumS said:


> My JBL 308 MK2s hiss like crazy.
> 
> Also, OP, are you _the _Proxima? DnB extraordinaire?


My 305(first gen) also hiss really bad now and the main reason I'm looking for something different. When I first got them the hiss was only audible if you put your ear to them but in the last year, I think I'm going on 5 years now with the 305's the hiss has gotten worse. I work in the A/V industry and am lucky enough to have access to a coworker who has done repairs for every type of audio and video equipment you can think of for the last 30 years. People come to him all the time with vintage gear. He was a bit dumbfounded by the hiss, because contrary to popular belief, Class D amps are actually very quiet so the next logical thing to look for was noisy pots (volume control) but that wasn't it so we think it might be the op amps JBL used in these that just degraded over time but we're both so busy he hasn't had time to crack them open and I still need to use them for mixing so I deal with it for now.
Point is, when I hear reviews that talk about a noticeable hiss ,like I hear about on the Adam A7X, I shy away but not because I don't think the hiss will be bearable when I first get them, like they were with my JBL 305's new, but I'm concerned at how much worse they will get over time.


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## proxima

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and suggestions.

I was able to listen to two contenders, the A7Xs and Yamaha HS8s just at the local GC. The room wasn't very well set up, but the A7Xs both sounded great and I could only hear hiss from inches away. Of course, put in a quieter setting, who knows, but I think I'll order them and see for myself.

@pderbidge, that's an interesting and concerning thought. At this point I'm hoping they'll be much quieter than what I have and stay inaudible from 1m.


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## pderbidge

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I'd stay away from passive speakers. If you do get passive speakers then you'll need to either build an L-pad or get an amp with a gain knob on it like a Parasound otherwise you'll probably end up with more noise than on most active monitors.


Not sure why you have the impression that passive would be worse. As long as you have a good clean amp and keep your speaker wires shielded from power cables then I don't see them being any more problematic than a powered speaker. In fact, I would prefer passive speakers so that I don't have to change them out just because of a bad amp. I think the real advantage, however, of powered monitors today is the built in DSP handling of the crossover. I think there are things that can be done with modern day dsp technology that can't be done with traditional crossovers.


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## Nick Batzdorf

All amps and other electronics hiss (thermal noise), it's a question of how much.

I assume you've checked everything else in your signal path to make sure it's not something other than the amps themselves? A live synth or other instrument with a fader all the way up will often do that, for instance. And then someone inexperienced will think "It's coming from my speakers, ergo I need new speakers."

And then, to my perpetual annoyance, 50 people will tell you what speakers they bought. 

But noisy amps do exist, so apologies if you've already determined that that's the issue.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I'd stay away from passive speakers. If you do get passive speakers then you'll need to either build an L-pad or get an amp with a gain knob on it like a Parasound otherwise you'll probably end up with more noise than on most active monitors.



Gerhard, is your argument that passive speakers have the amps all the way open (and you can only get below full blast by turning down what's being sent to the amps)?

That's definitely true if you have a power amp with no level control, including my Hafler P9505 (powering passive UREI monitors). But I think volume controls aren't the final stage. I know that the level controls on my Blue Sky Sat 6.5s (powered) are input sensitivity controls, i.e. the amps are going full bore just the same.

And if you use a monitor controller it's the same thing.


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## proxima

Nick Batzdorf said:


> All amps and other electronics hiss (thermal noise), it's a question of how much.
> 
> I assume you've checked everything else in your signal path to make sure it's not something other than the amps themselves? A live synth or other instrument with a fader all the way up will often do that, for instance. And then someone inexperienced will think "It's coming from my speakers, ergo I need new speakers."


I know not to expect zero hiss. In my case, my speakers hiss without input cables being plugged in at all, so I know it's the speaker (I've also had them in two locations with very different power). I'd just like to have a set where I don't notice the hiss a few feet away. That seems doable, but somewhat tricky.


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## pderbidge

Nick Batzdorf said:


> All amps and other electronics hiss (thermal noise), it's a question of how much.
> 
> I assume you've checked everything else in your signal path to make sure it's not something other than the amps themselves? A live synth or other instrument with a fader all the way up will often do that, for instance. And then someone inexperienced will think "It's coming from my speakers, ergo I need new speakers."
> 
> And then, to my perpetual annoyance, 50 people will tell you what speakers they bought.
> 
> But noisy amps do exist, so apologies if you've already determined that that's the issue.


Understood. Yes, I did all the standard troubleshooting and they hiss without any cables plugged into them, that's why I took it to someone smarter than me to verify. It's definitely internal to the speaker. If the volume is all the way down the hiss is gone but once you go to the first click, the hiss is there. From that point, the hiss does not change in volume whether you crank it up or leave it on 1 which is why my repair guy doesn't think it is the pots because the hiss would typically get worse as you turned it up. We think it might be the op amps degrading over time.


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## pderbidge

Nick Batzdorf said:


> All amps and other electronics hiss (thermal noise), it's a question of how much


True, I was just pointing out that Class D amps aren't necessarily more hiss prone than other types of amps as I've read from people who mistakenly have said that on other forums online so I though it was worth pointing out.

Edit: I think people get that impression from the budget monitors like the JBL LSR's that tout their class D amp in their specs and thus conclude that must be the reason they hiss.


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## pderbidge

You should check out the Fluid Audio FPX7. I think they're worth considering.
Here is a review on them I found 








Fluid Audio FPX7 Monitors


Two-Way, Coaxial Speakers With Ribbon Tweeter



www.mixonline.com


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## charlieclouser

I grew aggravated with hearing hiss in my monitors because I couldn't tell if it was just the amps+cables hissing, or if I had been recording dirt the whole time. 

So I switched to monitors with digital inputs which connect to my audio interface via AES or S/PDIF. I can open up the volume all the way, to the point where if you tapped a hi-hat sample it would blow your head off, and not hear a single molecule or pixel of hiss. 

Nothing. Zero. Digital black.

Been using this setup for 16 years now.

Never going back to analog wire again!


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## Gerhard Westphalen

pderbidge said:


> Not sure why you have the impression that passive would be worse. As long as you have a good clean amp and keep your speaker wires shielded from power cables then I don't see them being any more problematic than a powered speaker. In fact, I would prefer passive speakers so that I don't have to change them out just because of a bad amp. I think the real advantage, however, of powered monitors today is the built in DSP handling of the crossover. I think there are things that can be done with modern day dsp technology that can't be done with traditional crossovers.


Passive crossovers are a problem. FYI most active speakers aren't using a DSP crossover. They just use active crossovers which are already a big step up from most passive crossovers.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Gerhard, is your argument that passive speakers have the amps all the way open (and you can only get below full blast by turning down what's being sent to the amps)?
> 
> That's definitely true if you have a power amp with no level control, including my Hafler P9505 (powering passive UREI monitors). But I think volume controls aren't the final stage. I know that the level controls on my Blue Sky Sat 6.5s (powered) are input sensitivity controls, i.e. the amps are going full bore just the same.
> 
> And if you use a monitor controller it's the same thing.


As I mentioned, if you want to optimize the noise (or if your speakers are very sensitive, not make it drive you mad) then you need to either build an L-pad or have an amp that has level controls. When I switched from Parasound amps fo Hypex I had to build L-pads since I no longer had level controls. 

It's definitely true that on most active monitors the level control is just trimming the input and doesn't affect the noise levels. My JBL 705p do that. 



charlieclouser said:


> I grew aggravated with hearing hiss in my monitors because I couldn't tell if it was just the amps+cables hissing, or if I had been recording dirt the whole time.
> 
> So I switched to monitors with digital inputs which connect to my audio interface via AES or S/PDIF. I can open up the volume all the way, to the point where if you tapped a hi-hat sample it would blow your head off, and not hear a single molecule or pixel of hiss.
> 
> Nothing. Zero. Digital black.
> 
> Been using this setup for 16 years now.
> 
> Never going back to analog wire again!


That depends entirely on the speaker. Nothing to do with going digital. I go digital in to my 705p and in my room I can hear them from about 1m away if I let my ears adjust. If you brought your Dynaudios in here I bet I'd be able to hear them too. My main speakers, on the other hand, where I've optimized the amps on them, you can stick your ear in the horn and still not hear a thing.


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## pderbidge

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Passive crossovers are a problem. FYI most active speakers aren't using a DSP crossover. They just use active crossovers which are already a big step up from most passive crossovers.


Yes, true, I know that, but the next wave will be dsp controlled xovers like what fluid audio has done in their FPX7. Whether active or dsp is better than passive is all up to the design and subjective taste but I get your point that an active xover should give the designer more fine control over the crossover slope to minimize issues like phasing.


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## Andoran

My recommendations would be to find some Yamaha NS10's on ebay et al, or Yamaha HS8's. NS10's are in more pro studios than any other monitor I can think of. Both would be well within your budget, zero hiss, very transparent monitors.


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## Bernard Duc

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Passive crossovers are a problem. FYI most active speakers aren't using a DSP crossover. They just use active crossovers which are already a big step up from most passive crossovers.



I'm not so sure, it really depends on how the crossover is designed. There are plenty of bad active and passive design. I use passive speakers at the moment, and even putting my right in front of the tweater I can't hear any hiss, zero. And that's with the amp being always all the way up (no volume knob). 

As for the quality of the crossover itself: well, I bought this speakers because I heard them at a studio that was mixing one of my scores and I couldn't believe how good they sounded (mostly the 3d imaging). The mastering studio had also the (very) big brothers, awfully expensive and passive as well, that were designed for Sony mastering studios in Tokyo, and are being used in some others of the best mastering studios. Actually I believe that about 50% of high-end mastering studios use passive designs.


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## Bernard Duc

Andoran said:


> My recommendations would be to find some Yamaha NS10's on ebay et al, or Yamaha HS8's. NS10's are in more pro studios than any other monitor I can think of. Both would be well within your budget, zero hiss, very transparent monitors.


If by transparent you mean flat, then no, the NS-10 are not transparent at all, which is why so many people still use them! In some way they sound quite terrible, and many people find that if it sounds good on the NS-10, then it will sounds good on most systems.


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## Gerhard Westphalen

Bernard Duc said:


> I'm not so sure, it really depends on how the crossover is designed. There are plenty of bad active and passive design. I use passive speakers at the moment, and even putting my right in front of the tweater I can't hear any hiss, zero. And that's with the amp being always all the way up (no volume knob).
> 
> As for the quality of the crossover itself: well, I bought this speakers because I heard them at a studio that was mixing one of my scores and I couldn't believe how good they sounded (mostly the 3d imaging). The mastering studio had also the (very) big brothers, awfully expensive and passive as well, that were designed for Sony mastering studios in Tokyo, and are being used in some others of the best mastering studios. Actually I believe that about 50% of high-end mastering studios use passive designs.


Mastering studios and the like use passive because that's what's available in the hifi market and on other high end speakers. I won't get into all of the reasons why. If those companies were to make properly designed active systems then I can guarantee you that they'd sound better but they don't largely because it's too expensive. Many companies like PMC are offering active on the higher end models which are better than their passive versions.

Passive crossovers cause too many issues which you can't fix but cost prohibits going active for most people. Let's say you're using a 3-way system with a $10,000 amp and a $10,000 DAC. That's not unreasonable for a mastering studio. Now let's say you want to use a DSP crossover system for that. Speakers will cost the same (can't buy most speakers without passive crossover so you just have to tear it out) and then 3x $10,000 for the same amps and 3x $10,000 for the same DACs. That's $60,000 instead of $20,000.

There's a reason why "high-end" mastering studios use passive designs. It's not because it's better. It's because they either don't want to deal with the setup/amount of gear needed or can't afford it.

Having said that, most of the active versions of speakers where there are also passive equivalents won't give you $10,000 amps in them (cause the speaker would be deemed too expensive and no one would buy them) but even with cheaper electronics like PMC using their class D amps, you're still better off than having passive crossovers in there. Kii Threes will sound better than any passive system around that price and costing several times more. They're not using expensive DACs or amps. Just imagine how that system would sound if you did use expensive DACs and amps... it's just too expensive for most people to not find ridiculous.

If you want an example of a system that is built without much sacrifice just take a look at the Kyron Audio Gaia. At $250,000 the pricing is a little inflated to be similar to other hifi pricing but compared to other speakers like PMC it's really not all that bad considering that it is a considerable step up from them. Even then, I'm sure the DACs they use are excellent but might be improvable. Just giving an example of an all-in-one system. 

While most active or DSP systems will be better than passive, I do know a designer who can build passive crossovers that'll beat any active options or basic DSP ones (his designs are unlike anything else). He does however still say that a good DSP crossover with FIR filtering can beat out his passive systems. Other designers on the other hand will just build basic passive filters and have active ones which are replicated with active ones and in those cases the active will beat out the passive.


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## Andoran

Bernard Duc said:


> If by transparent you mean flat, then no, the NS-10 are not transparent at all, which is why so many people still use them! In some way they sound quite terrible, and many people find that if it sounds good on the NS-10, then it will sounds good on most systems.


Allow me to clarify. The HS8's are very transparent under most conditions, the NS10's are fairly transparent at low listening levels, which is where I like to mix much of the time to reduce fatigue. It is true however that one of the things people have said about NS10's for a long time is "if you can make the mix sound good on these, they'll sound good on anything"


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## Will Blackburn

Quested S8Rs


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## Bernard Duc

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Mastering studios and the like use passive because that's what's available in the hifi market and on other high end speakers. I won't get into all of the reasons why. If those companies were to make properly designed active systems then I can guarantee you that they'd sound better but they don't largely because it's too expensive. Many companies like PMC are offering active on the higher end models which are better than their passive versions.
> 
> Passive crossovers cause too many issues which you can't fix but cost prohibits going active for most people. Let's say you're using a 3-way system with a $10,000 amp and a $10,000 DAC. That's not unreasonable for a mastering studio. Now let's say you want to use a DSP crossover system for that. Speakers will cost the same (can't buy most speakers without passive crossover so you just have to tear it out) and then 3x $10,000 for the same amps and 3x $10,000 for the same DACs. That's $60,000 instead of $20,000.
> 
> There's a reason why "high-end" mastering studios use passive designs. It's not because it's better. It's because they either don't want to deal with the setup/amount of gear needed or can't afford it.
> 
> Having said that, most of the active versions of speakers where there are also passive equivalents won't give you $10,000 amps in them (cause the speaker would be deemed too expensive and no one would buy them) but even with cheaper electronics like PMC using their class D amps, you're still better off than having passive crossovers in there. Kii Threes will sound better than any passive system around that price and costing several times more. They're not using expensive DACs or amps. Just imagine how that system would sound if you did use expensive DACs and amps... it's just too expensive for most people to not find ridiculous.
> 
> If you want an example of a system that is built without much sacrifice just take a look at the Kyron Audio Gaia. At $250,000 the pricing is a little inflated to be similar to other hifi pricing but compared to other speakers like PMC it's really not all that bad considering that it is a considerable step up from them. Even then, I'm sure the DACs they use are excellent but might be improvable. Just giving an example of an all-in-one system.
> 
> While most active or DSP systems will be better than passive, I do know a designer who can build passive crossovers that'll beat any active options or basic DSP ones (his designs are unlike anything else). He does however still say that a good DSP crossover with FIR filtering can beat out his passive systems. Other designers on the other hand will just build basic passive filters and have active ones which are replicated with active ones and in those cases the active will beat out the passive.


I won’t get into a sustained argument here, speaker designers don’t agree, and mastering engineer don’t agree. All I can say is that money is not the reason those people go passive. The studio I was talking about for example has the highest end collection of gear I have ever seen. Those are people who tried all the highest end speakers, and simply decided they preferred those passive speakers (which are 30-50k each). And the reason I went for my speakers (passive), is because I couldn’t find anything else as good to my ears in this price range.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Passive crossovers are a problem.



They're suboptimal, no question, but there are still many great speakers that use them.

Active crossovers are better, and they're what's in most monitors. DSP crossovers are a pretty new thing.



Gerhard Westphalen said:


> When I switched from Parasound amps fo Hypex I had to build L-pads since I no longer had level controls.



Okay, that's a new one on me. I always understood that L-pads are for impedance matching, and amp outputs going to speakers shouldn't have that (assuming the amp is designed to drive nominal 8Ω speakers, which every one I know of and pretty much every speaker is).

Can you explain, please?


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## pderbidge

Nick Batzdorf said:


> They're suboptimal, no question, but there are still many great speakers that use them.
> 
> Active crossovers are better, and they're what's in most monitors. DSP crossovers are a pretty new thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, that's a new one on me. I always understood that L-pads are for impedance matching, and amp outputs going to speakers shouldn't have that (assuming the amp is designed to drive nominal 8Ω speakers, which every one I know of and pretty much every speaker is).
> 
> Can you explain, please?


I'd be curious as well. The only times I've personally used an Lpad was dabbling in a few speaker designs of my own (most of which didn't pan out and a few that weren't so bad). In this scenario the L-pad was just used to attenuate the tweeter that was rated at around 89 db compared to the midbass woofer that was rated at 84 db so that the tweeter would not overpower the woofer. The type of resisters used in the L-pad is determined by how much db reduction I needed which is also based on the impedance of the tweeter. I'm not smart enough to do the math myself so I just used online calculators to figure it out along with some thiele small parameters of the tweeter to get the result from the calculator. There are L-pads that parts express sells in the form of a knob that allows you to have a variable attenuation so perhaps something like that is what Gerhard is referring to.


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## charlieclouser

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> If you brought your Dynaudios in here I bet I'd be able to hear them too.



No, you wouldn't.


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## pderbidge

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Mastering studios and the like use passive because that's what's available in the hifi market and on other high end speakers. I won't get into all of the reasons why. If those companies were to make properly designed active systems then I can guarantee you that they'd sound better but they don't largely because it's too expensive. Many companies like PMC are offering active on the higher end models which are better than their passive versions.
> 
> Passive crossovers cause too many issues which you can't fix but cost prohibits going active for most people. Let's say you're using a 3-way system with a $10,000 amp and a $10,000 DAC. That's not unreasonable for a mastering studio. Now let's say you want to use a DSP crossover system for that. Speakers will cost the same (can't buy most speakers without passive crossover so you just have to tear it out) and then 3x $10,000 for the same amps and 3x $10,000 for the same DACs. That's $60,000 instead of $20,000.
> 
> There's a reason why "high-end" mastering studios use passive designs. It's not because it's better. It's because they either don't want to deal with the setup/amount of gear needed or can't afford it.
> 
> Having said that, most of the active versions of speakers where there are also passive equivalents won't give you $10,000 amps in them (cause the speaker would be deemed too expensive and no one would buy them) but even with cheaper electronics like PMC using their class D amps, you're still better off than having passive crossovers in there. Kii Threes will sound better than any passive system around that price and costing several times more. They're not using expensive DACs or amps. Just imagine how that system would sound if you did use expensive DACs and amps... it's just too expensive for most people to not find ridiculous.
> 
> If you want an example of a system that is built without much sacrifice just take a look at the Kyron Audio Gaia. At $250,000 the pricing is a little inflated to be similar to other hifi pricing but compared to other speakers like PMC it's really not all that bad considering that it is a considerable step up from them. Even then, I'm sure the DACs they use are excellent but might be improvable. Just giving an example of an all-in-one system.
> 
> While most active or DSP systems will be better than passive, I do know a designer who can build passive crossovers that'll beat any active options or basic DSP ones (his designs are unlike anything else). He does however still say that a good DSP crossover with FIR filtering can beat out his passive systems. Other designers on the other hand will just build basic passive filters and have active ones which are replicated with active ones and in those cases the active will beat out the passive.


Hmm, there is a lot to digest here that would derail this thread even further but I'm not qualified to comment on most since I haven't heard these systems myself. It does seem a bit like the arguments over what is snake oil and what isn't though. I'm not convinced that expense is too much of an issue when you see low cost monitors using active crossovers that cost less than a passive system with an external amp but to be fair I am just an average guy who has only dabbled in speaker designs for fun but not an expert by any means. I've spent many years as a weekend warrior DJing and micing up bands and helping friends who also did this for a living for mixing live shows so I've had "some" experience with live sound but not much with Studio setups other than my own.

I have also spent many years off and on playing around with my own pro audio speaker designs and using both active and passive crossovers and so I have "some" first hand experience but by no means am I an expert on the subject and pro audio is a different beast than the hi fidelity studio setup. I've had many conversations about stuff that is snake oil and stuff that isn't with knowledgeable people and my perception is that the people in the Hifi world buy more into the expensive DSP, DAC's and cables argument than those doing pro audio and live sound.

I have considered putting together a system using a fairly inexpensive Behringer DCX2496 and using the active crossover in that to handle a monitoring system but in the end my 2496 got stolen so I never got around to it. The behringer is an inexpensive active crossover so It shouldn't compete with higher end units but still should be better than passive right? I doubt it would have been great though because one thing I've learned is that whether it's a passive crossover or an active one, you still need to make sure you mate the right tweeter, waveguide, box design and woofer to get good results (just a flat measurement doesn't guarantee good sound)and the reality is that the people designing even these budget monitors available today do a better job than I ever could even if I had equipment that cost twice as much. There was a time that wasn't true but these days good sound is really quite affordable.

Point is, I think it's the designer that has more to do with how well a system turns out rather than whether it's passive or active but I'm sure we're not disagreeing on that point. I'd love to hear those systems you are talking about and see for myself if they are worth the cost. Then there's also how much is spent on room treatment and yada yada .... that affects how good it sounds.

Another thing that I haven't heard too much about is what are the negatives to active crossovers. We know that passive crossovers have compromises but I'm sure there are also compromises in an active system as well (ie; other types of electronic noise?) idk, just a thought.

But back on topic, I'm still trying to figure out why I can have no hiss with my little Lepai 2020A+ ( a $25 amp) and passive speakers and yet even a great sounding Presonus Sceptre S8 ($600/ea) still has noticeable hiss.


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## pderbidge

charlieclouser said:


> I grew aggravated with hearing hiss in my monitors because I couldn't tell if it was just the amps+cables hissing, or if I had been recording dirt the whole time.
> 
> So I switched to monitors with digital inputs which connect to my audio interface via AES or S/PDIF. I can open up the volume all the way, to the point where if you tapped a hi-hat sample it would blow your head off, and not hear a single molecule or pixel of hiss.
> 
> Nothing. Zero. Digital black.
> 
> Been using this setup for 16 years now.
> 
> Never going back to analog wire again!


I like this idea of all digital connections. It definitely makes sense and would help eliminate the hiss from connected gear but I doubt it would help in my case since the hiss is internal to the JBL LSR305 itself. Something to consider when looking for a new monitor though. Thanks for the suggestion, I never thought to look for something with a digital connection and it makes sense. You'd think by now everything would have an S/PDIF connection on it.


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## charlieclouser

pderbidge said:


> I like this idea of all digital connections. It definitely makes sense and would help eliminate the hiss from connected gear but I doubt it would help in my case since the hiss is internal to the JBL LSR305 itself. Something to consider when looking for a new monitor though. Thanks for the suggestion, I never thought to look for something with a digital connection and it makes sense. You'd think by now everything would have an S/PDIF connection on it.



Yes, I would absolutely have thought that by now more pro-level monitors would have digital inputs - but that means that you're relying on the D>A conversion inside the monitor at some point. In the case of the Dynaudio Air series that I use, the D>A and networking capabilities were made by TC Electronic, which is a company I've trusted to get it right for decades now.

Another issue I've found with monitors that have digital inputs is that many (most) do not offer any sort of included volume remote control. This is the case with Barefoot and many others, and even the newer Dynaudio series meant to "replace" the Air series after Behringer bought TC Electronic.

This means that you must attenuate the digital output stream coming from your audio interface, and I do not want to do this. The Dynaudio Air and the Genelec SAM monitors all have a remote volume control as part of the system, and while many will argue that all this does is attenuate the digital stream inside the speaker, I have my doubts. I hold out some hope that it's actually controlling the amp gains and not just turning your nice 24-bit stream into a 13-bit stream or whatever before it hits the D>A inside the monitors. But I do not have a definitive answer to this question, mostly because I've never asked the manufacturers exactly what's going on inside their boxes. Best-case scenario is that the knob controls the amp gains; worst-case scenario is that it IS attenuating the digital stream before the D>A - but this is exactly what happens in any other scenario, so it's a wash in that case.

Even using a monitor controller that has digital ins+outs, like the high-end Grace or TC Clarity units, when you turn the volume down it definitely is effectively lowering the bit depth of the digital stream that's passing through it - how else could it work? So even those solutions are not my cup of tea.

I really prefer monitors with digital inputs AND a supplied volume remote controller. My Dynaudio Airs have performed flawlessly for something like 16 years, and I do have quite a large stack of various models of them (over 30!). But they have been discontinued, and when it comes time to replace them my only choice is Genelec SAM. I have tested the 8351a + 7380 combination in my room and it is amazingly great. I must say that I like them even better than my Dynaudios, but this is due in large part to the included room correction software+mic setup, which is basically like Sonarworks but built-in to the monitor system, with much less latency (a couple of ms) and a smoother workflow than using the Sonarworks software. Perhaps not as fancy as the Trinnov room-correction system, which can measure and correct for things that Genelec SAM cannot, but that's basically an entire rack-mounted PC running their software, and I'm of the opinion that such things should be inside the monitors, as Genelec have done.

While the Genelec "Ones" are not cheap (and they look weird as heck), they are very very good. Even the small (8331) and mid-sized (8341) models sound great - they just don't go as loud as the bigger (8351) and biggest (8361) models. The dual-concentric (aka "point source") arrangement of the drivers is not snake oil - I instantly heard a big difference compared to my Dynaudios which have a conventional stacked driver arrangement. The entire body of sound seems to originate from a pin-point in space, and disperses through the room much more evenly, with an improvement in buzzwords like "stereo imaging" and "depth". This is not surprising to me since I have much experience and fond memories of the various Tannoy dual-concentric systems I owned back in the 1980's and 1990's.


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## wst3

I'll regret jumping in here I'm sure, but I see some common myths floating around and I suspect the OP will be glad to hear they are not always true.

TL;DR - you can reduce or eliminate hiss from loudspeakers by setting the gain properly throughout the system.

There is no rule that says loudspeakers must hiss. And there is no reason why a class D amplifier can not be quieter than a Class A amplifier. Personally, for critical listening I prefer Class A, but I am not wealthy enough to pull it off.

The only Class D amplifiers in my studio are in a pair of Presonus Sceptres, everything else is good old fashioned analog amplifiers, some with analog power supplies no less.

I can make any of them hiss, and more to the point, I can make any of them quiet.

You also have to differentiate between noise contributed by magnetic fields (the infamous hum), or be electrical fields (aka buzz) or poor gain staging (let's assume that everything is designed competently shall we?)

Let's also assume, for the sake of this post, that you do not have noise being introduced into the system from external magnetic or electrical fields.

Hiss is the product of electrons moving about, it occurs in pretty much every component, resistors, capacitors, etc. And in a competently designed circuit it ought to be inaudible. The difference between the nominal operating level (0 VU which represents either +4 dBu or -10 dBV) and the noise floor is called the signal to noise ratio - with the noise energy being a wide band measurement and the signal being a single sine wave - probably not optimal, but it has been around too long to make a fuss now.

In addition to that noise we need to take into account noise factor or noise figure - which measures the degradation of the S/N ratio. In pretty much any modern circuit the noise figure is not an issue. Modern circuits simply do not ADD noise of any consequence.

So where does the hiss come from? The most likely culprit is poor "gain staging" - that is too much gain in all the wrong places.

That knob on the front of your amplifier is almost certainly a sensitivity control, the amplifier itself runs at a fixed gain. There are designs where the gain changes, but they are really difficult to design, they tend to be unstable at one end of the gain range or the other. So we live with a fixed gain device and a sensitivity control.

Which is just fine, broadcasters used to send the signal from the studio as hot as possible and then "pad" it down at the transmitter to gain a little better S/N ratio. Granted even FM radio was only capable of "decent" S/N, forget about AM<G>!

The rule of thumb is that the first gain stage should provide the lion's share of the gain, and every stage thereafter should be set to unity if at all possible. There is certainly no need for attenuation, and there really shouldn't be a need for gain.

Gotcha #1 - not every designer uses the same standards (why do we call them standards anyway?) This has gotten much worse since the advent of digital audio - a rant for another day. It has nothing to do with bad designers by they way, it has everything to do with trying to equate a system (analog) that measured levels as RMS values and another system that measures levels as peak values (by necessity I'm afraid).

Gotcha #2 - not every piece of gear uses the same interface, even if all the designers agreed on levels in the first place. The worst situation is connecting professional and consumer equipment - either direction. There is an 11 dB (approximately, I'm lazy) difference between their nominal operating levels. That is going to be audible.

And it should be pointed out that Mr. Clouser is correct in his assumption that the digital connection (almost certainly) cleaned up his signal. One of the benefits of digital transmission is that there is no need for gain - whatever you put into the pipe comes out the other side unmolested. Now you do have to do everything else right, but done right that is going to be one quiet system.

For the rest of us we are going to have to live with what the manufacturers offer, so active crossovers driving Class D amplifiers all built into a small enclosure that vibrates a lot. It works. It does not have to hiss.

But to get rid of the hiss you need to calibrate every gozinta and gozouta. Not everyone wants to do that, and that's fine, if you are monitoring at an average level of 80 -85 dBSPL you aren't going to hear hiss that is probably 90 dB down when the music is playing.

But if you really do want a dead quiet system try the following (and remember, I have no idea what gear you are using, so a lot of this is guesswork.)

1) generate a 1000 Hz sinewave at your choice of nominal digital operating level, I use -18 dBFS, some go as high as -12 dBFS. Pick your poison.
2) send this reference signal out of the computer, into your D/A converter. Beg, borrow, or steal an RMS reading voltmeter. Measure the analog output - with -18 dBFS (or whatever you choose) you should be getting +4 dBu (roughly 1.23Vrms) from a professional output or -10 dBV (around 0.32Vrms) from a consumer output. If it is not then you have a problem somewhere, and you will need to find it. But for now adjust that generated signal so that the analog output is correct.

Now that analog signal feeds something - a monitor controller maybe, or an amplifier, or active loudspeakers.

If you have something in between the D/A converter and the amplifier input you need to measure the output of that device too. And it should read exactly the same as your D/A converter when set for unity gain. Now leave it there. Right not you are not introducing any additional gain, so your noise floor will still be where ever it started.

Turn the amplifier sensitivity control all the way down and send the signal to the amplifier. Slowly increase the sensitivity control until your listening level is 85 dBSPL. (you can get a reasonable SPL meter for Android or iOS phones - it ain't perfect, but it will be close enough for this experiment.

Now mute the input to the amplifier, preferably at the source because we want worst case behavior. Do you hear hiss?

If you do then short the INPUTS to the amplifier and listen again. Do you still hear hiss? If you do then your amplifier is either faulty or poorly designed/built. With the input terminals shorted the only noise you will hear is that which is generated by the amplifier. Once upon a time this was the first test performed on any piece of gear - it as become such a complete waste of time that it is now the last.

Lastly - and this is important, and Gerhard got it spot on - none of this may be even necessary if your room is not quiet enough to tell.

Sorry this post is so long, but there is a lot of information that needs to be passed along.


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## wst3

pderbidge said:


> <lots o' snippin'>
> 
> But back on topic, I'm still trying to figure out why I can have no hiss with my little Lepai 2020A+ ( a $25 amp) and passive speakers and yet even a great sounding Presonus Sceptre S8 ($600/ea) still has noticeable hiss.


I am surprised by that. I have a pair of the Sceptre S6s, and I have no hiss from approximately 3 ft away.


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## pderbidge

wst3 said:


> I am surprised by that. I have a pair of the Sceptre S6s, and I have no hiss from approximately 3 ft away.


That's good to hear because I really like the sound of the Sceptre's. A friend of mine who owns a really nice studio has the S8's and I just remember one time hearing the hiss but I probably spoke too flippantly about it because if I recall it was only that one time I noticed the hiss so it could have been some cabling that he replaced later because come to think of it I didn't notice it since, and I've been in his studio many times. My only point was that there are monitors in the same price range as the S8 that have been reviewed to have an issue with "hiss" so I'm wondering why speakers in such a price range have this issue when a cheap amp like the lepai doesn't even have this issue?


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## charlieclouser

wst3 said:


> And it should be pointed out that Mr. Clouser is correct in his assumption that the digital connection (almost certainly) cleaned up his signal. One of the benefits of digital transmission is that there is no need for gain - whatever you put into the pipe comes out the other side unmolested. Now you do have to do everything else right, but done right that is going to be one quiet system.



Indeed. Before I got the Dynaudio Air setup, a LOT of speakers, amps, and cables had come and gone. Passive speakers seemed to be the most troublesome, since I was constantly trying different cables, routing them in different paths, using those little trestles to elevate them off the floor and/or away from any other cables, etc. With active speakers this problem went away for the most part, since the signal was always a balanced cable all the way to the back of the speaker, and the only unbalanced wire in use was the six-inch run from the internal amp to the drivers. So, less pollution across the board - hum eliminated, but still a tiny bit of hiss at idle.

I got the Dynaudios not because of the digital connections per se, mostly because of the networking and ease of configuring and calibrating a 5.1 system - the digital input was a bonus. I tried both analog and digital connections (the Dynaudios can have both), and there was a difference - advantage: digital.

It sure is a relief to not have to worry about such things for the past decade and a half. When I'm working in the box using VI's, there's nothing coming out of my speakers that I didn't put there.


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## proxima

wst3 said:


> If you do then short the INPUTS to the amplifier and listen again. Do you still hear hiss? If you do then your amplifier is either faulty or poorly designed/built. With the input terminals shorted the only noise you will hear is that which is generated by the amplifier. Once upon a time this was the first test performed on any piece of gear - it as become such a complete waste of time that it is now the last.


Many thanks for your thoughtful and detailed post.

In my case, my existing monitors (Presonus Eris E5s) have a hiss noticeable at 1m even with nothing plugged in to the inputs. My impression going into this thread was that most active monitors have this hiss to one extent or another (perhaps just noticeable within inches). Fortunately, given some tweaking and balanced cables, my hissing doesn't get any worse with an input, so I'm hoping with a new set of monitors, the noise won't be noticeable from my chair.

And despite the tangent the thread went down, I find the discussion really interesting. Thanks again everyone!


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## pderbidge

wst3 said:


> But to get rid of the hiss you need to calibrate every gozinta and gozouta. Not everyone wants to do that, and that's fine, if you are monitoring at an average level of 80 -85 dBSPL you aren't going to hear hiss that is probably 90 dB down when the music is playing.


I think a long post like this is warranted since there will be a lot of people who blame hiss on the speaker when it could actually be poor gain staging. However, according to the OP's post, his issue is the same as mine, which is a hiss that seems to be internal to the speaker itself where the hiss is produced even without anything connected to it. In my case the hiss got worse over the years and based on conversations with a friend of mine who also does repairs for the A/V company that I work for we think it could possibly be the Op amps, but without cracking open the speaker it's just a guess at this point. Still, it's worth discussing other causes of "noise" to make sure we're all troubleshooting correctly before blaming the speaker. Having said that, it seems frustrating that a there are still a few active studio monitors that have an internal hiss that is audible from 3 meters away (based on user reviews that claim this happens without anything being connected). There are also "professional" reviews that complain about hiss from some of these new monitors but in most cases I think they do mention that it is only audible if you are right up against the speaker to hear it. Still, I'm trying to avoid buying another speaker who's hiss might increase over time, like mine did.


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## InLight-Tone

proxima said:


> Many thanks for your thoughtful and detailed post.
> 
> In my case, my existing monitors (Presonus Eris E5s) have a hiss noticeable at 1m even with nothing plugged in to the inputs. My impression going into this thread was that most active monitors have this hiss to one extent or another (perhaps just noticeable within inches). Fortunately, given some tweaking and balanced cables, my hissing doesn't get any worse with an input, so I'm hoping with a new set of monitors, the noise won't be noticeable from my chair.
> 
> And despite the tangent the thread went down, I find the discussion really interesting. Thanks again everyone!


I have those monitors as well and have no noticeable hiss and I'm about a meter away...


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## proxima

InLight-Tone said:


> I have those monitors as well and have no noticeable hiss and I'm about a meter away...


Curious. Both of mine do equally and tons of people complaining about it online, which suggested it was normal behavior.


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## InLight-Tone

proxima said:


> Curious. Both of mine do equally and tons of people complaining about it online, which suggested it was normal behavior.


That's interesting, I haven't done any research on them except when I initially bought them. They're definitely not the best whatsoever, will be upgrading mine this year as well. I'm using these with a sub though so they're adequate...


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## creativeforge

Patrick9152 said:


> I have a pair of Yamaha HS 80s, so fairly standard monitors, and I have never heard any hiss or background noise.I sit at 2 meters.
> These monitors are excellent for the price.
> Take a test in store.



I was about to chime in. For the price, best in show, imho. And they can bite you if you need to crank them up a bit. I had to downsize to HS5 due to living in a condo. But I miss the HS8.


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## creativeforge

creativeforge said:


> I was about to chime in. For the price, best in show, imho. And they can bite you if you need to crank them up a bit. I had to downsize to HS5 due to living in a condo. But I miss the HS8.



EDIT: I'm not a professional musician or engineer, so this may send some eyes rolling into skulls, if so I'm sorry. Maybe the OP did this already, but in my case, with both the HS80 and HS5, I never put the speaker output level (knob behind the speaker) passed a certain threshold. I keep it to the maximum it can be without hissing.

I use my soundcard levels to then crank up the volume, so I don't crank up noise. I guess that's pretty basic, but I thought I'd cover that since it has not precisely been mentioned (although it could be extrapolated from @wst3 exposé, and I do it with caution as I don't want to insult anyone (or sound like a total dork).


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## wst3

creativeforge said:


> EDIT: I'm not a professional musician or engineer, so this may send some eyes rolling into skulls, if so I'm sorry. Maybe the OP did this already, but in my case, with both the HS80 and HS5, I never put the speaker output level (knob behind the speaker) passed a certain threshold. I keep it to the maximum it can be without hissing.
> 
> I use my soundcard levels to then crank up the volume, so I don't crank up noise. I guess that's pretty basic, but I thought I'd cover that since it has not precisely been mentioned (although it could be extrapolated from @wst3 exposé, and I do it with caution as I don't want to insult anyone (or sound like a total dork).


You just said it better (and briefer) than I! Your approach is perfectly valid - a geek like me wants to drag out all that test equipment I purchased decades ago, but your way will work just fine. Thanks for cleaning up after me...


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## wst3

pderbidge said:


> I think a long post like this is warranted since there will be a lot of people who blame hiss on the speaker when it could actually be poor gain staging. However, according to the OP's post, his issue is the same as mine, which is a hiss that seems to be internal to the speaker itself where the hiss is produced even without anything connected to it. <snip>


Here's my thing - I do not like to throw stones at anyone, my glass walls are very thin.

More to the point, I find it difficult to accept that bad designs are really getting to market. I will accept that designs which require more care to use may be getting to market, but that is a different issue. And the irony is that entire thing is driven by cost, and unfortunately people with the least experience are purchasing gear that requires more experience.

It could be that the circuit has a flaw, it could be that some components are starting to fail - but before you go down that path you need to listen with the inputs shorted. Listening with nothing connected is not a valid test, since the open circuit has a fairly high impedance, and coupled with sufficient gain that can sound like hiss, or hum, or buzz.

We usually (always?) have something connected to the input terminals, and that something will almost always have a very low source impedance, not quite a short, but "close enough".

If it is not too much trouble I'd love to hear what you hear with the inputs shorted and with the sensitivity control set to its minimum and maximum. That would be very telling!


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## Gerhard Westphalen

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Okay, that's a new one on me. I always understood that L-pads are for impedance matching, and amp outputs going to speakers shouldn't have that (assuming the amp is designed to drive nominal 8Ω speakers, which every one I know of and pretty much every speaker is).
> 
> Can you explain, please?


When I was looking up how to build a pad, I was told that an L-pad was the way to go. If you just slap on a single resistor then the impedance would change and can cause issues. The L-pad just keeps the impedance the same as it was.


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## proxima

wst3 said:


> We usually (always?) have something connected to the input terminals, and that something will almost always have a very low source impedance, not quite a short, but "close enough".


Interesting point about shorting the inputs, so I just tried it. No change in the hiss compared to not having inputs plugged in at all.


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## pderbidge

wst3 said:


> Here's my thing - I do not like to throw stones at anyone, my glass walls are very thin.
> 
> More to the point, I find it difficult to accept that bad designs are really getting to market. I will accept that designs which require more care to use may be getting to market, but that is a different issue. And the irony is that entire thing is driven by cost, and unfortunately people with the least experience are purchasing gear that requires more experience.
> 
> It could be that the circuit has a flaw, it could be that some components are starting to fail - but before you go down that path you need to listen with the inputs shorted. Listening with nothing connected is not a valid test, since the open circuit has a fairly high impedance, and coupled with sufficient gain that can sound like hiss, or hum, or buzz.
> 
> We usually (always?) have something connected to the input terminals, and that something will almost always have a very low source impedance, not quite a short, but "close enough".
> 
> If it is not too much trouble I'd love to hear what you hear with the inputs shorted and with the sensitivity control set to its minimum and maximum. That would be very telling!



Here is what I did. I work for an A/V company (installs and designs for conference rooms etc...) and the guy that does repairs at my work has done repairs for over 30 years from antique audio and video equipment to modern day equipment. People still go to him for antique restoration since he is one of the few people left in my state that knows how to work on those machines. JBL is one of our biggest vendors and we buy direct from JBL so he has a lot of experience fixing JBL equipment. He did a test on the speakers and found the same thing that I told him was going on. At the zero click, there is no hiss, but once you go to the first click of the volume knob, there is a noticeable hiss from even 2 to 3 feet away. Whether the volume is on the first click or the last click, the hiss does not change. He was a bit skeptical himself when I told him but after testing it he's not sure what it is but thinks it might be the opamps. We are both too busy with our jobs at the moment that he doesn't really have time to open them up and look at them especially since I keep giving him work to do (he also helps me design rooms for my customers). I'm not necessarily the smartest guy but in my line of work I do have to put together audio solutions with DSP control, etc.. for small to large rooms, including auditoriums but I do have my engineers to double and triple check my work and often have to go back to the drawing board because I forgot a specific type of cable or an RDL balanced to unbalanced converter, etc... since we do fairly long runs in these rooms, not to mention the complication of audio/video room control with Extron and Crestron control systems.

I am happy to try what you suggested but let me ask for clarification. Are you suggesting I hook a cable to the back of the speakers without being hooked up to anything else? With an open cable like that I can only imagine inviting other noise into the speakers. If, however, you mean to have them hooked up to my interface then I am already doing that and unfortunately that does not increase or decrease the hiss.


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## wst3

pderbidge said:


> Here is what I did. I work for an A/V company <snip>


small world - my day gig is in A/V as a system engineer, post sales. So I spend my days designing systems for conference rooms and classrooms (yawn) and every once in a while, a performance space. Gotta love it!



pderbidge said:


> I am happy to try what you suggested but let me ask for clarification. Are you suggesting I hook a cable to the back of the speakers without being hooked up to anything else? With an open cable like that I can only imagine inviting other noise into the speakers. If, however, you mean to have them hooked up to my interface then I am already doing that and unfortunately that does not increase or decrease the hiss.


No no no - you already know what that will sound like!

The idea is to short circuit the input stage so that any noise you hear has to be from the amplifier it self. Wire up an XLR with pin 2 connected to pin 3 and you have a new piece of test equipment<G>!

I am very curious to hear if that makes a difference, but the test you describe suggests that it won't. I'm not sure if it is an opamp or some other active component but if shorting the inputs does not make the noise go away you probably do have a bad component or two...


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## wst3

proxima said:


> Interesting point about shorting the inputs, so I just tried it. No change in the hiss compared to not having inputs plugged in at all.


This is pointing to faulty components or an iffy design choice... I hope it is the former.


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## pderbidge

wst3 said:


> small world - my day gig is in A/V as a system engineer, post sales. So I spend my days designing systems for conference rooms and classrooms (yawn) and every once in a while, a performance space. Gotta love it!



Nice! Love the "yawn", I know how you feel. So your like the smart guys I work with that I go to with my half baked designs and watch them shake their heads in despair and then tell me what I really should be using for the room  Every once in a while they smile and tell me "good job" but I'm sure it's just their managers telling them to stop making us sales guys feel so stupid all the time.j/k



wst3 said:


> The idea is to short circuit the input stage so that any noise you hear has to be from the amplifier it self. Wire up an XLR with pin 2 connected to pin 3 and you have a new piece of test equipment<G>!



OK. Got it. I'll have to try that.


----------



## John Longley

$1500 puts you in striking distance of a LOT of great used options from Tyler (small Decade), Dunlavy (SCIII*make sure you source some extra drivers just in case), PMC (TB2) and countless others. You can find a quiet amp for pretty cheap, and the noise floor will be very minimal and the FR, phase coherence and transient response will be vastly improved. Get out there and find out what you like!
You can find a clean, reasonable power amp for a couple hundred bucks-- though depending on your setup look for passive cooling if it has to be in the room with you close by. 

I have never heard an active monitor in that price range that can come close to any of the above options.


----------



## pderbidge

wst3 said:


> The idea is to short circuit the input stage so that any noise you hear has to be from the amplifier it self. Wire up an XLR with pin 2 connected to pin 3 and you have a new piece of test equipment<G>!



Gave it a test and no difference in the hiss. Thanks for the tip though.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> When I was looking up how to build a pad, I was told that an L-pad was the way to go. If you just slap on a single resistor then the impedance would change and can cause issues. The L-pad just keeps the impedance the same as it was.



Okay, okay, got it. Thanks.


----------



## wst3

L-Pads, T-Pads, and H-Pads are all used to attenuate a signal without disturbing the impedance relationships, which is only necessary in a handful of cases, one of which would be loudspeakers. Another would be a variable cross-over.

An L-Pad is a voltage divider, nothing more, except that the series and shunt resistances are selected so that the amplifier sees a fixed, and constant impedance. When used as a variable attenuator both the series and shunt resistors are varied.

A T-Pad and H-Pad are used as fixed attenuators. The T-Pad is for single-ended devices, and the H-Pad is for balanced devices. The impedance of the destination will be help constant.

Hopefully that clears things up a bit.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

wst3 said:


> Hopefully that clears things up a bit



Not in the least. I already knew all of that except for the first three paragraphs.


----------



## Dex

OP, let us know what you think of your Adams when they arrive.

I have a pair of first gen LSR 305's and the hiss has annoyed me since day 1.


----------



## wst3

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Not in the least. I already knew all of that except for the first three paragraphs.


Thrilled I could be of no assistance Nick!


----------



## proxima

Dex said:


> OP, let us know what you think of your Adams when they arrive.


Just got the A7X set up and listened for about an hour. Without inputs and volume down, they're very, very quiet (tiniest hiss within a few inches). Raising the volume and having multiple inputs (via my mixer) gave a very small amount of hiss, nearly imperceptible at normal distances (I had to shut the speakers off to be sure that there was any difference). Provided it stays this way, I won't have any problem having them on next to me when not in use.

They sound fantastic, btw. I was concerned that the low end would be insufficient for my taste (and my room, and neighbors, might take unkindly to a sub10), but I think they'll work. A/Bing them against my HD 595s (admittedly not the best at low frequencies, but they're there), they do well. Due to said neighbors, I have yet to run them at high volume, but 95% of the time I anticipate low-mid volume use.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

charlieclouser said:


> I grew aggravated with hearing hiss in my monitors because I couldn't tell if it was just the amps+cables hissing, or if I had been recording dirt the whole time.
> 
> So I switched to monitors with digital inputs which connect to my audio interface via AES or S/PDIF. I can open up the volume all the way, to the point where if you tapped a hi-hat sample it would blow your head off, and not hear a single molecule or pixel of hiss.
> 
> Nothing. Zero. Digital black.
> 
> Been using this setup for 16 years now.
> 
> Never going back to analog wire again!




What monitors have S/PDIF inputs?


----------



## MusiquedeReve

pderbidge said:


> That's good to hear because I really like the sound of the Sceptre's. A friend of mine who owns a really nice studio has the S8's and I just remember one time hearing the hiss but I probably spoke too flippantly about it because if I recall it was only that one time I noticed the hiss so it could have been some cabling that he replaced later because come to think of it I didn't notice it since, and I've been in his studio many times. My only point was that there are monitors in the same price range as the S8 that have been reviewed to have an issue with "hiss" so I'm wondering why speakers in such a price range have this issue when a cheap amp like the lepai doesn't even have this issue?




I have been using KRK Rokit 5 Gen2 for years and feel it is time for an upgrade

I took a dive into researching the Sceptre S8's and one thing I keep seeing is people complaining of hiss

I have never had any hiss from the Rokit 5's connected to an Apogee Element 24 via XLR

Is the Sceptre S8 hiss issue the product of a "bad run" of monitors or is this an issue that arises for everyone?

I can turn my volume up to 100% and still have zero hiss from the Rokit 5's - why would a cheap monitor be hiss-free while expensive monitors produce hiss?

Also, if anyone else had the Rokit 5's and upgraded their monitors to the Sceptre's, did you notice the difference right away in sound quality (assuming no hiss)?



Thank you and be well


----------



## charlieclouser

EpicEsquire said:


> What monitors have S/PDIF inputs?



Some of the Barefoot models do. The now-discontinued Dynaudio AIR series do, and the new Dynaudio Core series do. All of the Genelec monitors with SAM do. Many more I'm sure but those are the only ones I've looked at seriously.

Most have AES inputs, not S/PDIF, but the two formats are interchangeable if you use a simple impedance matching transformer like these:









Canare BCJ-XP-TRC BNC-F In to XLR-M Out Impedence Transformer Plug


110 - 75 ohm Impedance TransformerXLR3: MaleBNC: FemalePack Qty: 1 pcCanare Impedance Transformers are designed to convert 2-channel digital audio signals between balanced 110 ohms XLR and unbalanced 75 ohms BNC.




www.markertek.com





These little devices let you go back and forth between 75ohm S/PDIF and 150ohm AES freely (there are separate models for each direction) and you will need a 75 cent BNC>RCA adaptor since they have a BNC jack not an RCA jack for some reason. The underlying data stream is, for our purposes, identical.

The Genelec SAM and Dynaudio AIR series both have a volume remote control knob available, while the Barefoots and Dynaudio Core series do not, meaning that for those you must use the master output level control on your DAW to control your listening level, or use a monitor controller like the Grace m908, TC Clarity-X, or a similar unit which has digital ins AND outs to do so. I definitely do not like using the DAW output level control for this as it means you're reducing the effective bit depth of your signal in order to turn down your speakers, and it also means you may inadvertently bounce or print a reduced-level signal depending on your setup. And a Grace m908 or TC Clarity-X is not a cheap solution, although in many setups with multiple sets of speakers you may want one anyway.

With the Genelec SAM and the Dynaudio AIR series (that I use) the supplied volume remote control lets you have a full-scale (normalized) signal coming out of your DAW and turn down the speakers to a comfortable listening level. There is some argument / dispute / confusion about whether that volume remote is just attenuating the AES stream inside the speaker before it hits the amps, or whether it's actually controlling the amp gains, which would be ideal. Even if it is attenuating the incoming AES stream, at least it's doing so outside of any part of the signal flow that you might be using to route to an external stem recorder, etc. - and it means that the output level meters on your DAW will still display the level of the un-attenuatted outgoing AES stream instead of the listening level.

A lot of the Genelec SAM series are not wildly expensive, and have the added benefit of built-in room-correction software. With the optional purchase of the $300 GLM kit and $80 volume knob, you've got network control over large arrays of speakers for surround / Atmos and beyond, easy and precise subwoofer integration / calibration / control, an included calibrated measurement microphone, and the ability to measure your room response and create corrective eq curves which are stored inside the speaker's DSP and applied with the absolute lowest latency. Think of it like having SonarWorks inside the speakers, without the need to use a plugin or adjust your DAW workflow in any way. To me this is the ideal and only acceptable way to do this. I've tried it in my room and the results are astonishingly good. So Genelec SAM 8351b or 8361 will be my next monitors, but the smaller 8341 or 8331 have all the benefits of the big "Ones", just with lower SPL and less bottom end. If you don't like the "point-source" co-axial aspect of "The Ones" then any other Genelec models that have "SAM" in their name include digital / analog inputs and the capability to do the room correction thing.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

charlieclouser said:


> Some of the Barefoot models do. The now-discontinued Dynaudio AIR series do, and the new Dynaudio Core series do. All of the Genelec monitors with SAM do. Many more I'm sure but those are the only ones I've looked at seriously.
> 
> Most have AES inputs, not S/PDIF, but the two formats are interchangeable if you use a simple impedance matching transformer like these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canare BCJ-XP-TRC BNC-F In to XLR-M Out Impedence Transformer Plug
> 
> 
> 110 - 75 ohm Impedance TransformerXLR3: MaleBNC: FemalePack Qty: 1 pcCanare Impedance Transformers are designed to convert 2-channel digital audio signals between balanced 110 ohms XLR and unbalanced 75 ohms BNC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.markertek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These little devices let you go back and forth between 75ohm S/PDIF and 150ohm AES freely (there are separate models for each direction) and you will need a 75 cent BNC>RCA adaptor since they have a BNC jack not an RCA jack for some reason. The underlying data stream is, for our purposes, identical.
> 
> The Genelec SAM and Dynaudio AIR series both have a volume remote control knob available, while the Barefoots and Dynaudio Core series do not, meaning that for those you must use the master output level control on your DAW to control your listening level, or use a monitor controller like the Grace m908, TC Clarity-X, or a similar unit which has digital ins AND outs to do so. I definitely do not like using the DAW output level control for this as it means you're reducing the effective bit depth of your signal in order to turn down your speakers, and it also means you may inadvertently bounce or print a reduced-level signal depending on your setup. And a Grace m908 or TC Clarity-X is not a cheap solution, although in many setups with multiple sets of speakers you may want one anyway.
> 
> With the Genelec SAM and the Dynaudio AIR series (that I use) the supplied volume remote control lets you have a full-scale (normalized) signal coming out of your DAW and turn down the speakers to a comfortable listening level. There is some argument / dispute / confusion about whether that volume remote is just attenuating the AES stream inside the speaker before it hits the amps, or whether it's actually controlling the amp gains, which would be ideal. Even if it is attenuating the incoming AES stream, at least it's doing so outside of any part of the signal flow that you might be using to route to an external stem recorder, etc. - and it means that the output level meters on your DAW will still display the level of the un-attenuatted outgoing AES stream instead of the listening level.
> 
> A lot of the Genelec SAM series are not wildly expensive, and have the added benefit of built-in room-correction software. With the optional purchase of the $300 GLM kit and $80 volume knob, you've got network control over large arrays of speakers for surround / Atmos and beyond, easy and precise subwoofer integration / calibration / control, an included calibrated measurement microphone, and the ability to measure your room response and create corrective eq curves which are stored inside the speaker's DSP and applied with the absolute lowest latency. Think of it like having SonarWorks inside the speakers, without the need to use a plugin or adjust your DAW workflow in any way. To me this is the ideal and only acceptable way to do this. I've tried it in my room and the results are astonishingly good. So Genelec SAM 8351b or 8361 will be my next monitors, but the smaller 8341 or 8331 have all the benefits of the big "Ones", just with lower SPL and less bottom end. If you don't like the "point-source" co-axial aspect of "The Ones" then any other Genelec models that have "SAM" in their name include digital / analog inputs and the capability to do the room correction thing.




Thank you for the detailed response - much appreciated


----------



## kepler

EpicEsquire said:


> I have been using KRK Rokit 5 Gen2 for years and feel it is time for an upgrade
> 
> I took a dive into researching the Sceptre S8's and one thing I keep seeing is people complaining of hiss
> 
> I have never had any hiss from the Rokit 5's connected to an Apogee Element 24 via XLR
> 
> Is the Sceptre S8 hiss issue the product of a "bad run" of monitors or is this an issue that arises for everyone?
> 
> I can turn my volume up to 100% and still have zero hiss from the Rokit 5's - why would a cheap monitor be hiss-free while expensive monitors produce hiss?
> 
> Also, if anyone else had the Rokit 5's and upgraded their monitors to the Sceptre's, did you notice the difference right away in sound quality (assuming no hiss)?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you and be well



I've had the S8's for about a year now...the hiss was there from the beginning. Googled it, and found that (like others in this thread) it seems to be somewhat of a known issue with these and other monitors. I was able to ignore the hiss for awhile, working on some louder stuff. But recently, I've been working on a lot of stuff that's pretty quiet, and the hiss was really getting to me...was literally the only thing I could concentrate on while mixing. I finally bit the bullet and sent them in for repair a few weeks ago. Just got them back today and....still hissing. Filed a followup RA with PreSonus, but I'm going to assume they'll tell me there's nothing more they can do. If that's the case, I'll end up selling these and begin the hunt for new monitors.


----------



## MusiquedeReve

kepler said:


> I've had the S8's for about a year now...the hiss was there from the beginning. Googled it, and found that (like others in this thread) it seems to be somewhat of a known issue with these and other monitors. I was able to ignore the hiss for awhile, working on some louder stuff. But recently, I've been working on a lot of stuff that's pretty quiet, and the hiss was really getting to me...was literally the only thing I could concentrate on while mixing. I finally bit the bullet and sent them in for repair a few weeks ago. Just got them back today and....still hissing. Filed a followup RA with PreSonus, but I'm going to assume they'll tell me there's nothing more they can do. If that's the case, I'll end up selling these and begin the hunt for new monitors.



Did Presonus tell you what they did to repair the monitors?

After further research I decided upon the Dynaudio LYD 48's, which are due to arrive later today


----------



## Loïc D

tack said:


> This ought to be an easy criterion to satisfy, but yes it does require some first hand experience to navigate those waters.
> 
> I have the Focal CMS65, which are mighty fine hissless monitors.


I also got the smaller CMS40 (discontinued) and they are hissless at 1m distance, mid volume.


----------



## kepler

EpicEsquire said:


> Did Presonus tell you what they did to repair the monitors?
> 
> After further research I decided upon the Dynaudio LYD 48's, which are due to arrive later today


Just read the RA manifest. One of the monitors didn't have any repairs done to it according to the RA. The second monitor had "Service Replaced: Rear Amp Panel (MT8F16113370), N.P.F (MT8F16113353) WAIVE BENCH FEES, -2x Audio I/O Test Procedure"


----------



## David Kudell

charlieclouser said:


> While the Genelec "Ones" are not cheap (and they look weird as heck), they are very very good. Even the small (8331) and mid-sized (8341) models sound great - they just don't go as loud as the bigger (8351) and biggest (8361) models.


Just wanted to say thanks for this recommendation @charlieclouser! I have my eye on a pair of 8341's which would be a huge upgrade from just using headphones or consumer computer speakers. It's an investment, but the room correction is going to make a huge difference. I just have to decide which subwoofer to go with it - the 7350 or the 7360. The 7360 goes down to 19Hz, as opposed to 28Hz for the 7350, which I am wondering if that's low enough. Especially since my home theater sub goes down to 18Hz already, so I'm spoiled!


----------



## Buddy

kepler said:


> I've had the S8's for about a year now...the hiss was there from the beginning. Googled it, and found that (like others in this thread) it seems to be somewhat of a known issue with these and other monitors. I was able to ignore the hiss for awhile, working on some louder stuff. But recently, I've been working on a lot of stuff that's pretty quiet, and the hiss was really getting to me...was literally the only thing I could concentrate on while mixing. I finally bit the bullet and sent them in for repair a few weeks ago. Just got them back today and....still hissing. Filed a followup RA with PreSonus, but I'm going to assume they'll tell me there's nothing more they can do. If that's the case, I'll end up selling these and begin the hunt for new monitors.



I also have the S8s and in my interaction with support they told me the hiss is normal, expected behavior.


----------



## jcrosby

Buddy said:


> I also have the S8s and in my interaction with support they told me the hiss is normal, expected behavior.


I thought I had hiss issues with my Sceptres until replacing my monitor controller and connecting to it via AES from my interface.

Previously I had a Monitor Station v2. Even connecting to the MS v2 digitally still produced a lot of noise. I had a hunch this was the main culprit, but wondered if it was my interface. I replaced the MS v2 with a D Box+ and the noise completely disappeared. So much so that I set my D Box+ so that the Sceptres were putting 100 dB SPL (which is f-ing LOUD) and there was no audible hiss from 3-4 feet away. (Not to mention that my room is so well treated you can hear a pin drop in my room...)

If you use an MC don't skimp and buy a cheap POS, it has a substantial impact. If you have the option to connect digitally to one do so. (Even with the MS v2 it did make a difference, however the electronics in it are so noisy that it was still an issue.)

Basically the quality of your listening path has a huge influence - your interface, gain staging, monitor controller quality (if you use one) and the level you feed into the Sceptres all compound. Your monitoring path is only as good as its weakest link.


----------



## Buddy

jcrosby said:


> I thought I had hiss issues with my Sceptres until replacing my monitor controller and connecting to it via AES from my interface.
> 
> Basically the quality of your listening path has a huge influence - your interface, gain staging, monitor controller quality (if you use one) and the level you feed into the Sceptres all have a huge impact. So much so that I put my Sceptres at 100 dB SPL (which is f-ing LOUD) and there was no audible hiss from 3 feet away. Not to mention that my room is so well treated you can hear a pin drop in my room... No noise at all on my S8's pushing 100 dB SPL now that my listening path is properly configured
> 
> Previously I had a Monitor Station v2. Even connecting to the MS v2 digitally still produced a lot of noise. I had a hunch this was the main culprit, but wondered if it was my interface. I replaced the MS v2 with a D Box+ and the noise completely disappeared. Your monitoring path is only as good as its weakest link.



Well, in my case, I'm in a very well-treated room coming from my Apollo x8p which I would consider a good signal chain. More definitively, I get hiss without being connected to _anything_ and just turning on the S8s. So it's nothing to do with the monitoring path. 

Further, two other pairs of monitors in the same room, same setup, do not hiss. It's definitely the S8s which, again, was confirmed by Presonus support who freely shared that the hiss is normal behavior for these monitors, as a result of their design.


----------



## jcrosby

Buddy said:


> Well, in my case, I'm in a very well-treated room coming from my Apollo x8p which I would consider a good signal chain. More definitively, I get hiss without being connected to _anything_ and just turning on the S8s. So it's nothing to do with the monitoring path.
> 
> Further, two other pairs of monitors in the same room, same setup, do not hiss. It's definitely the S8s which, again, was confirmed by Presonus support who freely shared that the hiss is normal behavior for these monitors, as a result of their design.


I don't know what to tell you. 100 dB SPL is serioulsy loud. Maybe yours have a defect, I don't know. I do know that the only thing that changed between the time I could hear hiss and now is me getting rid of a poor MC and connecting to my current one via AES.


----------



## Buddy

jcrosby said:


> I don't know what to tell you. 100 dB SPL is serioulsy loud. Maybe yours have a defect, I don't know. I do know that it solved my issue completely.



Given my own experience, how common and widespread the issue seems to be according to google, and with Presonus support confirming the hiss is expected behavior, I'm having a lot of trouble reconciling your experience.

You say you don't hear hiss from 3-4 feet away. Okay, how about closer than that? Talking about a persistent tape-like hiss going the entire time the monitor is powered on. You don't hear this??


----------



## jcrosby

Buddy said:


> Given my own experience, how common and widespread the issue seems to be according to google, and with Presonus support confirming the hiss is expected behavior, I'm having a lot of trouble reconciling your experience.
> 
> You say you don't hear hiss from 3-4 feet away. Okay, how about closer than that? Talking about a persistent tape-like hiss going the entire time the monitor is powered on. You don't hear this??


It's not like I'm here to misinform you and/or ad to the conspiracy theory... No. I used to hear a consistent hiss and and don't anymore. If noise increases as you turn up your interface output the noise is not coming from the, it's coming from your path to the speakers. The correct way to set up a quiet listening path is to set your interface to full output and calibrate the level using the speakers, (or a monitor controller.) That's what I mean by correctly gain staging your listening path.

Yes if you jack up the Sceptres there is noise, but this isn't unique to the Sceptres. The only way to mitigate this is to feed them a hot signal and bring the level down on the speakers. A good monitor controller let's you dial this in if you calibrate your room to a specific level. In my case the MS v2 added noise (which isn't a shocker given its price tag...) After going getting a quiet monitor controller and going AES I truly do not hear any hiss from 3-4 feet away.


----------



## Sunny Schramm

I had the Adam A7X and on mine there were no hiss or noise at all. I am very sensitive to noise and I´m sitting in a 1x1x1 meter triangle. Had to sold them years ago 😢

Now I got the JBL LSR305 + 310S. "There" is a really an annoying noise at that 1x1x1 distance. But as you play something its gone - its only annoying when there is nothing playing. The noise disappears completely when you put a distance of about 180cm between them.

The positiv: even with 180cm distance you got a really good surprising mono-center and stage. And for 550€ (305 including the 310 Sub) its the best sounding system you can get for the money for sure ❤ every bad production will sound bad on it and the good ones will blow you away. For production I set the highs to "+2" - thats perfect because you notice when you put too much highs with an EQ on your track - it burns your ears...so go back to where it sounds brilliant and good and you are fine. For listening to already mastered music I turn down the highs to "0".

I will keep the JBL for sure but will always lurking on the A7X or the Neumann KH120 - but I think to remember the KH also got a little noise. Otherwise its really hard to find monitors without class-d amp noise. Even a lot of monitors in the price range of 500 to 700€ each got it. But it only matters if you are sitting really close to the monitor. I think when you have them on stands behind your desk it could be ok - and of course the room matters too.

BTW: if nobody mentioned it before - class-d amp noise is not related to the volume. It should be the same as you turn the volume knob up or down on your monitors.


----------



## Buddy

jcrosby said:


> It's not like I'm here to misinform you and/or ad to the conspiracy theory... No. I used to hear a consistent hiss and and don't anymore.



Of course, nobody's accusing you. But, the fact that you fixed the hiss which is persistent without being connected to anything _by changing the settings on things you're connecting to_ is definitely a bit mystifying.



jcrosby said:


> If noise increases as you turn up your interface output the noise is not coming from the, it's coming from your path to the speakers. The correct way to set up a quiet listening path is to set your interface to full output and calibrate the level using the speakers, (or a monitor controller.) That's what I mean by correctly gain staging your listening path.



Again, the hiss occurs even if the interface is totally disconnected from the Sceptres. Not volume dependent on the interface level at all. This seems replicable across other people experiencing the same issue.



jcrosby said:


> Yes if you jack up the Sceptres there is noise, but this isn't unique to the Sceptres. The only way to mitigate this is to feed them a hot signal and bring the level down on the speakers. A good monitor controller let's you dial this in if you calibrate your room to a specific level. In my case the MS v2 added noise (which isn't a shocker given its price tag...) After going getting a quiet monitor controller and going AES I truly do not hear any hiss from 3-4 feet away.



The level on my Sceptres is as low as it will go. Min level. Hiss is still very much audible.


----------



## Sunny Schramm

Buddy said:


> The level on my Sceptres is as low as it will go. Min level. Hiss is still very much audible.



thats sadly normal on presonus and other monitors in this price range with class-d amps 🤷‍♂️😔


----------



## Buddy

Sunny Schramm said:


> thats sadly normal on presonus and other monitors in this price range with class-d amps 🤷‍♂️😔



Great piece of info. Explains why the other monitors in my room don't hiss by comparison: they use class AB amps. Thanks for the clue!


----------



## jneebz

tack said:


> This ought to be an easy criterion to satisfy, but yes it does require some first hand experience to navigate those waters.
> 
> I have the Focal CMS65, which are mighty fine hissless monitors.


Same. Love my Focals!


----------



## jcrosby

Buddy said:


> Of course, nobody's accusing you. But, the fact that you fixed the hiss which is persistent without being connected to anything _by changing the settings on things you're connecting to_ is definitely a bit mystifying.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, the hiss occurs even if the interface is totally disconnected from the Sceptres. Not volume dependent on the interface level at all. This seems replicable across other people experiencing the same issue.
> 
> 
> 
> The level on my Sceptres is as low as it will go. Min level. Hiss is still very much audible.


That's not normal at all. Presonus telling you should hear hiss at a low level is just odd on Presonus's part. (I've personally always found their support to be sloppy...) As I said I've tested my S8's at 100 dB SPL and hiss is not audible, (when it was very much so in the past). I just calibrated again, and when I completely remove Sonarworks from the equation I'm still pushing close to 100 dB SPL with the monitors at their current setting, and the D Box's volume at dead center.

Just to make it clear I'm not blowing smoke up your ass here's video I just took of them putting out about 100 dB SPL. Measuring from my ear canal to the S8's horn I average 45", quite close... (Not to mention uncomfortably! loud.) Even though my computer is virtually silent and under my desk I can hear its fan over any hiss the S8's should be putting out, which again, used to be super audible. No magic trick here! 🧙‍♂️ (And sorry to hear you're having a rough go of it...)









Sceptres 100 dB SPL.mp4


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Buddy

jcrosby said:


> As I said I've tested my S8's at 100 dB SPL and hiss is not audible, (when it was very much so in the past). I just calibrated again, and when I completely remove Sonarworks from the equation I'm still pushing close to 100 dB SPL with the monitors at their current setting, and the D Box's volume at dead center.
> 
> Just to make it clear I'm not blowing smoke up your ass here's video I just took of them putting out about 100 dB SPL. Measuring from my ear canal to the S8's horn I average 45", quite close... (Not to mention uncomfortably! loud.) Even though my computer is virtually silent and under my desk I can hear its fan over any hiss the S8's should be putting out, which again, used to be super audible. No magic trick here! 🧙‍♂️ (And sorry to hear you're having a rough go of it...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sceptres 100 dB SPL.mp4
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com



I'm not sure I understand the relevance of your 100 dB SPL calibration here. The hiss I'm talking about occurs even with _no_ _music playing, _totally disconnected from the interface, and with the monitors at their lowest gain setting.

Maybe that's the misunderstanding? I wouldn't expect you to be hearing low level hiss when blasting music at maximum volume.


----------



## Sunny Schramm

Yep - and as I "also" wrote before: there is now connection between the hiss and the volume - its a technically thing of the construction of monitors with a class-d amp.


----------



## jcrosby

Buddy said:


> I'm not sure I understand the relevance of your 100 dB SPL calibration here.


Obvioulsy. Do you honestly think I don't understand the issue? (Or that I haven't seen people make this same statement before?)

The monitors put out 100 dB SPL with the current static setting I have before Sonarworks is applied. And *obviously are devoid of hiss at 3.5 feet from the horn* *when no sound is playing*. Why 100dB SPL?

Most people listen between 80 and 85 dB. If your path is setup and calibrated properly you should not hear hiss with Sceptres putting out 80-85. Considering mine put out 100 before room correction is applied, (well above normal listening levels), this indicates that these speakers are capable of producing hiss levels that are more or less inaudible from 3-4 feet away at normal levels. Their level settings have been static for the past 15 months, when I put the DB+ in. If I lean in to about 18-20 inches, yes there is the slightest amount of hiss, but again, so slight that if I lean back to my listening position I can hear all other noise above it and the hiss is completely imperceptible - the plumbing in my building, occasional traffic outside, the slight whir and whine coming from the computer - everything else in my room is substantially more audible and distracting.

If you're hearing hiss and _"The level of your Sceptres are as low as they'll go. Min level. Hiss is still very much audible"_, you almost certainly have a faulty pair. And it sure as **** sounds like Presonus is giving you a sloppily scripted answer that completely contradicts the reality I live in my studio day to day.

If that's not clear enough than clearly it's time to exit this thread....


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## Buddy

jcrosby said:


> Obvioulsy. Do you honestly think I don't understand the issue? C'mon dude.
> 
> The monitors put out 100 dB SPL with the current static setting I have before Sonarworks is applied. And *obviously* are devoid of hiss at 3.5 feet from the horn *when no sound is playing*. If you're hearing hiss and _"The level of your Sceptres are as low as they'll go. Min level. Hiss is still very much audible"_, you almost certainly have a faulty pair.



In truth, yes. It genuinely seemed like there must be some miscommunication. The internet is full of reports of Sceptre owners complaining about the hiss, Sunny has kindly described the component that causes it: the class-D amp, which is built into every single monitor--including yours--and even Presonus themselves have confirmed the hiss is expected behavior.

In the face of this, you persistently assert the hiss we're all experiencing must be the result of a faulty pair. Or that the hiss which is inherent to the design of the monitor can be solved by the quality of peripherals _attached _to the monitor. I'd be happy to chalk up our difference in experience to variability in production quality...except that you say you started with the same hiss that all the rest of us have! It's a strange situation, for sure, and I've been trying to decipher what's going on, including eliminating variables like miscommunication.


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## Buddy

jcrosby said:


> If I lean in to about 18-20 inches, yes there is the slightest amount of hiss, but again, so slight that if I lean back to my listening position I can hear all other noise above it and the hiss is completely imperceptible - the plumbing in my building, occasional traffic outside, the slight whir and whine coming from the computer - everything else in my room is substantially more audible and distracting.



There we go. Thank you for this post edit. This reality makes much more sense to me. Your Sceptres _do _have some noticeable hiss. To you, it's not much. But they do hiss enough to be audible at 18-20 inches.

OP wants monitors where he doesn't notice the hiss, so I venture Sceptres would not be the best choice. In my room, their hiss is audible at normal working distance and the noisiest of the 3 different pairs of monitors I use.


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## classified_the_x

I gotta almost touch my ears in the speakers to hear a hiss, and I'm using JBL LS40 series with a Marsh solid state amplifier. In my previous main speakers, a Dynaudio BM12A, I can't remember the hiss, meaning that the current hiss bothers me a bit just by being there.

That said, there is probably some dirt on your audio chain if you have a hiss in your monitors, get proper Mogami cables, leave them away from power cables, use a good interface, deliver clean power to the whole chain, check for neutral/ground inversions... There's probably more... Oh, shielded USB cables from your gear to computer (QED is a good brand, it's not expensive). 

A good start is simply moving the cables that go to the speakers and check if the hiss disappears. If it does, you might consider changing them.


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