# Your opinion about music workstations....



## 3DC (Jan 28, 2022)

Just like the title says. Your opinion about music workstations so no synths please. 
Do you use them? Do you miss them? Which one was the worst and which one was/is the best. Advantages, disadvantages? 

I am looking at probably the only new Korg Krome-88 EX in whole EU. Old stock for sure. Looks tempting. Can get all sorts of VSTs for this money...and I actually don't need it.....but its a 88 key workstation. Classic problems typical for music workstations included in price. And then there is MODX with lame key bed but wonderful Yamaha FM synth engine.


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## K. Johnston (Jan 28, 2022)

I have my eye on the Kurzweil PC4-7 to replace my old Axiom 61 which is starting to have issues. Although from what I understand, this is more a digital synth and less of a workstation since it has just a few sequencing options. I have heard that the PC-4 has a better FM engine than even Yamahas, though that is likely subjective. I am opting for the 76 key version so it fits under my Output desk. Plus, it is semi weighted.

I have not been impressed with the current offerings of MIDI controllers especially semi-weighted options. I have already delved into analog synths. So I figure any digital synth functions, especially FM, would be a welcome bonus.

I don’t have one yet but nobody appears to have them in stock. So it’s a waiting game.


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## zimm83 (Feb 5, 2022)

Roland Fantom rules. V3.0 !!!


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## Nico5 (Feb 5, 2022)

@3DC Are you interested in workstations over synths because you want to create songs entirely in hardware?

I have to admit that I've had quite a few workstations over the years, but none of them ever got used for making songs, because (for me) the workflow just doesn't compete with even ancient midi sequencing software (without audio). 

So I can't comment on relative merits of the song making process between different workstations. But I could probably comment on sounds and keybeds.


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## hag01 (Feb 6, 2022)

I was going to ask the same question just today, what a coincidence!

For me, I'm sure it's not going to replace Cubase, but what I was going to ask particularly, is whether you folks find the internal sound engines of these keyboards useful, for recording in a computer DAW of course.
I'm asking that because the most expansive workstations on the market have very deep and sophisticated sound engines, and usually have quite many of theme on each keyboard.
Even the less expansive keyboard workstations like the Yamaha MODX and the KORG Krome EX, which have fewer sound engines, but hose are impressive sound engines.
But though they can be delightful, the acoustic sounds of these keyboards mostly still can't compete with modern VST samples libraries.
I also wanted to ask if you folks find those keyboards useful in your studio in other ways than just recording their sounds to your DAW, since they are also complete musical instruments.
Do you find them inspirational or useful in some other way?


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## TomislavEP (Feb 6, 2022)

Playing gigs with a band was (is) my main source of income for more than a decade, so the keyboard workstation is an important part of my gear. For many years I've been using a combination of a Roland workstation and a stage piano from Kurzweil. For me, this had proved itself as a winning combination, with Roland being a symbol of diversity and innovation, while Kurzweil is a reliable old dog that tends to age extremely well.

My current live setup for working with bands consists of a Roland Juno DS and Kurzweil SP4. Prior to that, I've used Roland Fantom X for many years but had to let it go due to increasing malfunctions that my maintenance man was unable to completely resolve. I must say that I really love Juno DS - it is a lightweight yet deceptively powerful instrument that simply gets the job done in my book. I also use it in a conjunction with TEControl Breath Controller for added expression.

For my compositional work, I must say that I use hardware synths very seldom these days - I simply don't feel the real need with all these VI's and libraries, though I like adding acoustic sources every now and then. I do have a Kurzweil PC3 in a studio and a trusty Yamaha PSR-3000 arranger workstation for quick jamming and capturing ideas on the fly.


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## doctoremmet (Feb 6, 2022)

I have played my trusted Kurzweil K2500 for what seems a lifetime. The V.A.S.T. engine is ancient by today’s standards but still holds up on many fronts when compared to my software synths. And the way more modern Korgs, Yamaha’s and Roland boards are as good or better with way better UI. Of course the Roland SRX boards and their predecessors are the stuff of legends when it comes to ‘acoustic / orchestral’ but modern day sample libraries have completely overshadowed those in terms of ‘realism’, performance and mic positions, RRs.

Much like Tomislav I have always considered the Kurz extremely reliable, like an old trusted dog indeed! I also mainly used it as a gigging board, it has great performance patches and a lot of features that are extremely great for live use (faders can be switched to B3 drawbar mode!). But it is also very cool to use a workstation to jam and create little ideas / noodles without having to turn on your computer. Just hit record and play. Done. Next track. Done. Next track. Quantize a little and then record the thing in audio or export the MIDI to a DAW. Sometimes not being behind a computer screen can be very liberating. That’s why I keep a lot of hardware around haha. Inspiration indeed - and in the case of workstations - that sense of “being able to arrange something real quick”. It can be magic, and having everything is one hardware environment CAN be great. Because sometimes limitations and less options can free your mind. Of course, at other times, you just want to endlessly tweak CC automation lanes, lol.


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## TomislavEP (Feb 6, 2022)

Doc has summarized things nicely. Despite all these software breakthroughs we're constantly witnessing, hardware workstations still have their place, and are (IMO) a better option for live performances, the same way the software is often a more flexible option for studio work. However, using a workstation in this area as well from time to time can prove itself as not only a viable but also a liberating alternative.


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## hag01 (Feb 6, 2022)

TomislavEP said:


> Playing gigs with a band was (is) my main source of income for more than a decade, so the keyboard workstation is an important part of my gear. For many years I've been using a combination of a Roland workstation and a stage piano from Kurzweil. For me, this had proved itself as a winning combination, with Roland being a symbol of diversity and innovation, while Kurzweil is a reliable old dog that tends to age extremely well.
> 
> My current live setup for working with bands consists of a Roland Juno DS and Kurzweil SP4. Prior to that, I've used Roland Fantom X for many years but had to let it go due to increasing malfunctions that my maintenance man was unable to completely resolve. I must say that I really love Juno DS - it is a lightweight yet deceptively powerful instrument that simply gets the job done in my book. I also use it in a conjunction with TEControl Breath Controller for added expression.
> 
> For my compositional work, I must say that I use hardware synths very seldom these days - I simply don't feel the real need with all these VI's and libraries, though I like adding acoustic sources every now and then. I do have a Kurzweil PC3 in a studio and a trusty Yamaha PSR-3000 arranger workstation for quick jamming and capturing ideas on the fly.


By the way, I too play in bands from time to time(though unfortunately we haven't got out of the rehearsal room a lot so far), and I got the Yamaha MODX6 about 2.5 years ago, and since then it was my exclusive complete keyboard rig in any band situation. It gave me all I need so far, and although it doesn't has a dedicated tone-wheel organ modeling engine, it gave me all the organ sounds I need.

Tone-wheel organ never was my passion, but it's something I'm demanded to do regularly. Every rock\pop band I played with asked me to play lots of tone-wheel organ sounds.

The MODX has many useful sample based tone-wheel organ factory presets, and one factory preset with nine drawbars sampled separately so you can imitate any drawbar setting, and it has rotary effect, distortion, chorus, etc...
There are also a couple of tone-wheel organ expansion libraries with the same concept for the MODX.

Like the OP, I also put my eyes on the KORG Krome EX, I wanted to get it since the moment it came out. But since the MODX6 delivered all my immediate needs, every time I thought I'm going to pull the plug on my Krome EX GAS, I delayed this purchase in a favor of other important expanse.
I still think I'm going to get it at some point, I favor the action of the Krome EX 61 much more over the MODX6 action, so if I'll have to play some more technical stuff I'll probably take it with me instead of the MODX6.
Also, the Krome EX has a pitch-bend\mod joystick, which I find to be much more expressive in live playing than a pair of wheels.

For tone-wheel organ sounds I'll probably will get a Krome EX expansion library with nine separated sampled drawbars.


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## Jackdnp121 (Feb 6, 2022)

I use Roland Fantom 8 - as my midi controller 

it’s a bit over kill and I feels very guilty to this monster machine


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## cedricm (Feb 6, 2022)

I bought my StudioLogic SL-88 from a. gig musician going all in on a Yamaha Genos. He was very pleased with it.


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## GtrString (Feb 6, 2022)

I use a Roland Juno Dx as a midi controller, and for the occasional patch. When recording, I run it through some outboard gear (sometimes a guitar amp) and guitar multieffects pedals to get original sounds. You can do a lot with that, also sounds not easily achievable with vi’s in your daw, and it sounds great. A side benefit is that anyone in my household can take it to gigs, so it’s really a versatile unit. It gives a lot more options than a midi controller.


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## doctoremmet (Feb 6, 2022)

Well… I am a huge FM fan and have considered getting a Montage just to get my hands on the latest and greatest edition of their engine. So I get you!


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## Double Helix (Feb 6, 2022)

I am in the same camp as @doctoremmet and @3DC

I use a Korg Kronos2 88 as my midi controller. Further, it's convenient for practicing & programming as it has the identical action as the Kronos 73 that I use for live gigs (just checked my receipt: I will have had the 73 for ten years this August. It was the first Korg product I have ever owned)

I use the Kronos' infinitely variable KARMA engine more than I use the internal sequencer. Many of us have several options available.
To illustrate, I have two useful percussion libraries (StylusRMX & Moonkits), but I know how to generate/manipulate drum patterns with KARMA and can generally get something interesting in no time.
Then, I dump it to Studio One where it can act as a foundation (I do it more for fun than for any other reason, and it can be more motivation than a click track). The resulting patterns layer well with the software libraries.

Our workflows are individual to us, and as technology advances, flexibility is paramount.


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## doctoremmet (Feb 6, 2022)

Double Helix said:


> I use the Kronos' infinitely variable KARMA engine more than I use the internal sequencer.


I still remember how the original Korg Karma impressed me back in the day. Herbie was playing one during this tour (I saw two gigs that tour) and it was a great sounding board. Way ahead of its time.


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## TomislavEP (Feb 6, 2022)

Jackdnp121 said:


> I use Roland Fantom 8 - as my midi controller
> 
> it’s a bit over kill and I feels very guilty to this monster machine


Using such a workstation primarily as a controller is (IMO) an overkill but still a viable option if you like its keybed and the available controls. Personally, I prefer separate keyboard rigs for live and studio work. In the studio, I use a combination of Studiologic SL-990 Pro and Nektar Panorama T6 although I'm not too keen on Nektar's key response.



> I bought my StudioLogic SL-88 from a. gig musician going all in on a Yamaha Genos. He was very pleased with it.



The arranger workstation was my weapon of choice for many years before venturing into working with bands as well into composing and production. I always loved their all-in-one concept. These days, a premium arranger such as Genos is quite a luxury for me so I'm still drawing out as much as possible from my trusty PSR-3000 when needed.


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## soundmind (Feb 6, 2022)

I also use a Korg Kronos 2 88 as my main midi controller. Have a few other hardware synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, EX5) and modules (K2000, Triton, JV1080, etc.). Combine them with VI’s (Omnisphere, u-he, Spitfire, etc.) inside Studio One. Use the Kronos mainly for pads, fx, or just for the weighted feel. The Hydrasynth or Roli Seaboard are great for expressive playing.


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## noises on (Feb 6, 2022)

soundmind said:


> I also use a Korg Kronos 2 88 as my main midi controller. Have a few other hardware synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, EX5) and modules (K2000, Triton, JV1080, etc.). Combine them with VI’s (Omnisphere, u-he, Spitfire, etc.) inside Studio One. Use the Kronos mainly for pads, fx, or just for the weighted feel. The Hydrasynth or Roli Seaboard are great for expressive playing.


Take it you are referring to Yamaha EX5. Love using it as a controller....two modwheels (never found these days?) for cc1 cc11...extremely ergo to control simultaneously...not to mention the breath controller input. (i still have a working bc3 unit). The added plus is the incredible sound engine/s at ones disposal. Now about 20 years old...and without trouble.


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## hag01 (Feb 6, 2022)

The Yamaha MODX has very good FM engine indeed, and obviously it can be layered very well with other VST instruments in modern DAW productions.
But I think that even the acoustic sounds of the MODX can be used in modern DAW productions, to some extent, in particular cases. It's well known fact that Yamaha are the kings of acoustic sounds in the synth\workstation keyboard market.
Of course those sounds are not a substitute for modern sample libraries, but I'd say the MODX's AWM2 is in pair with the best sound modules of the nineties. Like the sounds you can hear in Michael Giacchino's music from the Jurassic Park nineties Playstation game, or the film scores of Universal Soldier and Cyborg(nineties Jean Claude Van Damme movies). I think the MODX's acoustic sounds are in pair with those sounds, and if so, obviously they can be useful even today.

About the KORG Krome EX sounds, I agree they are not as realistic as the MODX, but they have this Lo-fi glow if you know what I mean. And I guess that the Korg Krome EX and the HD-1 engine of KORG Kronos\Nautilus are the most similar contemporary things there are today to the classic KORG Triton line.

In fact, both keyboards represent for me music style, artists, and era I'm longing for, and bring me sense of nostalgy.

The MODX has the FM-X engine wich is the contemporary version of the DX7 engine, which identified with film music of the 80's\90's and with film composers like Jerry Goldsmith, and with the FM-X you also get the most authentic DX7 FM piano you can get today, which is also identified with many great 90's pop hits from Disney films, Whitney Houston, and such.

While KORG reminds me all those classic 90's symphonic\black metal like Dimmu Borgir, and such, and at the same time classic 90's rap productions by DR. Dre and such.

The Kurzweil's are also lovely beasts on their own, by the way.


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## soundmind (Feb 6, 2022)

noises on said:


> Take it you are referring to Yamaha EX5. Love using it as a controller....two modwheels (never found these days?) for cc1 cc11...extremely ergo to control simultaneously...not to mention the breath controller input. (i still have a working bc3 unit). The added plus is the incredible sound engine/s at ones disposal. Now about 20 years old...and without trouble.


Yes, the Yamaha EX5. Love the synth weighted feel and all of the controllers as you mention. Was my main controller before the Kronos. Have thought about it, but I cannot part with it. A classic indeed.


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## Double Helix (Feb 6, 2022)

soundmind said:


> Yes, the Yamaha EX5. Love the synth weighted feel and all of the controllers as you mention. Was my main controller before the Kronos. Have thought about it, but I cannot part with it. A classic indeed.



Reverb has an EX5 at what seems to be a fair price (but pricey s/h) -- having those two modwheels is a great idea














Yamaha EX5 1998 | Reverb


Yamaha EX5 Keyboard (1998) Very Good Condition!




reverb.com


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## Jackdnp121 (Feb 6, 2022)

TomislavEP said:


> Using such a workstation primarily as a controller is (IMO) an overkill but still a viable option if you like its keybed and the available controls. Personally, I prefer separate keyboard rigs for live and studio work. In the studio, I use a combination of Studiologic SL-990 Pro and Nektar Panorama T6 although I'm not too keen on Nektar's key response.
> 
> 
> 
> The arranger workstation was my weapon of choice for many years before venturing into working with bands as well into composing and production. I always loved their all-in-one concept. These days, a premium arranger such as Genos is quite a luxury for me so I'm still drawing out as much as possible from my trusty PSR-3000 when needed.


I toured with the old phantom x7 for like 10 years straight - 5-6 nights a week and it finally killed it … so when I saw the new phantom came out I’m like … I need to get this bad boy …. But thinking back now , I should have gone for phantom 7 instead , and get the rd2000 for my bottom keyboard …. Since rd-2000 share the same pha 50 key as phantom 8

anyway …. It’s not like there’s plenty of gigs around these day 🥲 … oh boy I miss gigging ….


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## chillbot (Feb 6, 2022)

noises on said:


> Take it you are referring to Yamaha EX5


I love my EX5R it's my favorite sounds of all the Yamahas. Died once, found a replacement on ebay.



soundmind said:


> Yes, the Yamaha EX5.


Do you happen to have a patch called "Nu Age Pad" it's from an external Yamaha soundbank (came on floppy disks) that I've been trying to track down for years and years. When my first EX5R died (above) I lost the add-on soundbank.


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## soundmind (Feb 6, 2022)

Double Helix said:


> Reverb has an EX5 at what seems to be a fair price (but pricey s/h) -- having those two modwheels is a great idea
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Plus the small ribbon (shown) and the 6 rotary knobs under the screen.


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## chillbot (Feb 6, 2022)

I've always used a big massive workstation of which I use like 2% of it's capabilities. I cycle through a new one every 7-8 years or so, currently on the Motif XF8.

Partly because it's nice to have the bank of built-in faders so I don't need an external box for that. And I have to have real mod/pitch wheels. The main reason though which I haven't seen mentioned here yet is that size does matter. Weight, mostly. There is a feel to playing an 60 lb beast that you don't get from playing a lighter more compact box. If you took the exact keybed out of my XF8 and put it into a lightweight compact box, it wouldn't feel the same. Yeah it's a bit of a luxury and an expensive one for a box that I don't use a ton of features on but it's important to me. And I was able to ditch my Motif Rack since I have all the sounds on the keyboard now.


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## soundmind (Feb 6, 2022)

chillbot said:


> So you happen to have a patch called "Nu Age Pad" it's from an external Yamaha soundbank (came on floppy disks) that I've been trying to track down for years and years. When my first EX5R died (above) I lost the add-on soundbank.


I have banks of sounds on an old Iomega Jaz drive (SCSI). Have not fired it up in years (almost afraid to, in case it doesn't work). But I probably have that sound. Have you checked any EX forums where others have uploaded SysEx banks?


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## chillbot (Feb 6, 2022)

soundmind said:


> Have you checked any EX forums


Any particular ones? Tough search when it appears Yamaha also makes an EX waverunner and maybe an EX motorcycle.


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## soundmind (Feb 6, 2022)

chillbot said:


> Any particular ones? Tough search when it appears Yamaha also makes an EX waverunner and maybe an EX motorcycle.


Checking to see if I still have it in my history. I seem to remember I came across a page not too long ago.


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## soundmind (Feb 6, 2022)

EX5/5R/7 Files Available



Have not downloaded any myself.


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## Living Fossil (Feb 6, 2022)

3DC said:


> I am referring to the typical rich analogue synth sounds from old Roland and Yamaha synthesizers we are all used to hear in the past. I clearly can't explain it properly but to me its different then any software synth. Placebo? Maybe but somehow I can spot software synth patch almost any time.


I don't think you could spot good soft synths vs sounds of workstations in a properly set up blind test.
Everything which is not a really well done blind test is meaningless, since you will rather hear what you want to hear.

If we talk about "real" analog synths (i worked with lots of them, for years, and still have some) it will still be a tough thing to keep them apart. BTW, it also depends which analog synth we are talking about. Zebra can sound much better than a huge bunch of "real" analogues.

I remember a german magazine did a blind test (over 20 years ago) with examples from different synths where you had to guess which sound comes from which synth and nobody had more than 3 examples right out of 20. 

And using an octave divider really doesn't add "analog" character, maybe it will add some dirt if it's a broken unit. 

p.s. of course it's nothing wrong if you're interested in workstations.  Personally, i'm glad that era is over.


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## jblongz (Feb 6, 2022)

Short Answer: I don't miss them AT ALL. Even their "New" tech is dated. 

Passionate Answer:
I have extensive experience with this paradigm struggle. I've owned every popular workstation (Motifs, Fantoms, Tritons, Kronos) and their model variants prior to 2020. It's is mostly the same recycled stuff. The workflows are not as free we tend to think when we're away from them long enough. Sure there are some classic sounds we love from them (more on that later).

If you desire the FEEL of not using the computer, I think the best route is using Ableton Push 2 or Maschine MK3 with a midi controller. I suggest this because once the installation is setup, you can leave the computer running, turn off your display and get lost in preset heaven or sound design with knobs and bottons. Workstations still take time to boot, sequence, render stems or export midi anyway. Try to remember what led you to computers and how you can retain that advantage while using the screen less. Though you want to detach from the computer, you are not truly portable with a workstation if its in the same room.

With Native Instruments NKS, you already have the workstation feel in terms of finding and tweaking sound with their keyboard. If you're using Maschine (which is not common for cinematic scores) then you don't need the keyboard as the NKS feature is baked into Maschine's software+hardware combo.

OH lets talk about longevity...I purchased the Roland and Korg VST version of their respective hardware synths and expansions. They sound the same to me (particularly the SRX stuff). This is *huge *to me because I had issues over the years with knobs and buttons going bad (I still have a Yamaha W7 with virtually no buttons left). Even the Roland FA series had a mod-wheel defect...I had it replaced 3 times. For those of you who bought SRX cards back in the day....whew we burned some money eh. Do you remember your hardware quality woes? Do you remember that midi drift when you had too many notes in the sequence (through it wasn't near the 100,000 max yet.) How many decades does it take to get 16 outs anyway? 

Will I ever buy a workstation again? I can't say for sure. But it won't be to escape the computer...I have Ableton Push 2 and Maschine MK3 to give me that illusion when I need it. It would probably be to experience a new groundbreaking technology. Besides, until workstations start competing with the sound of Kontakt, Sine, and Spitfire libraries, Its hard for me not to get bored...and synth sounds are way more fun to experiment in software for me.


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## TomislavEP (Feb 7, 2022)

Jackdnp121 said:


> I toured with the old phantom x7 for like 10 years straight - 5-6 nights a week and it finally killed it


A similar scenario here. Over the years, my maintenance man has replaced the display, almost every pot and button on the front panel, CPU, and power supply using the original parts. However, it was still acting up the last few years so I've replaced it with Juno DS and I'm very happy. The new Fantom is surely a powerhouse, but IMO an overkill for live work and I definitely don't need it in the studio.


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## doctoremmet (Feb 7, 2022)

Living Fossil said:


> I don't think you could spot good soft synths vs sounds of workstations in a properly set up blind test.
> Everything which is not a really well done blind test is meaningless, since you will rather hear what you want to hear.


Hard agree. 

First of all, it is kind of silly to attribute an “analogue” sound to workstation hardware, as they are really largely just expanded romplers or very very digital wavetable or FM implementations. 

But I can speak from experience and have access to a lot of actual analogue hardware synths (and digital ones too by the way) [over 60 classic synths] and have performed MANY blind tests. And I can attest that I (and many other musician friends for that matter) have structurally been unable to recognize the real deal among software emulations. This has been a shattering experience of course  because I really am a hopelessly romantic person who would love to support the notion that an actual OB-Xa or ARP Odyssey sounds way better than some Arturia emu… but no, it doesn’t. I always disclaim this message with the following: 1. I may have bad ears (and all of the other people I know who failed blind tests) and 2. I totally agree owning and playing hardware synths beats sitting behind a computer and a generic MIDI board in a lot of situations. 

So I am a big endorser of using hardware to sometimes “stay out of the box” and a workstation is a great tool. I also have an Ableton Push (already mentioned in one of the posts above) and the smaller ROLI hardware which I sometimes use with my iPhone - and all of that stuff can help getting you started making music without feeling like a day at the office.


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## doctoremmet (Feb 7, 2022)

3DC said:


> Dunno but somehow I can spot Yamaha FM synth over NI FM or any other FM software synth. It has some unique "texture" I guess. To me its just different. But after reading your and @Living Fossil comments I might have a serious placebo issues.
> 
> I think I know where is the problem.


I love Yamaha FM synthesis so I WANT to believe you ❤️ 

Some day you will have to come over to my place, bring that brand new MODX and I’ll roll out the TX816, TX802, TX81Z, and a couple of DX7s and make some completely over the top FM jam.

Synth Pop FTW


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## noises on (Feb 8, 2022)

chillbot said:


> I love my EX5R it's my favorite sounds of all the Yamahas. Died once, found a replacement on ebay.
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have a patch called "Nu Age Pad" it's from an external Yamaha soundbank (came on floppy disks) that I've been trying to track down for years and years. When my first EX5R died (above) I lost the add-on soundbank.


Nu age pad could be in a the huge archive left by Marc E (who died about 10 years ago). He was an extensive programmer and worked wonders for all of us with his 9 banks of voices.
The link to his work is here. http://www.marce-music.com/patchesAbout.html


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## milford59 (Feb 8, 2022)

2 pages into the thread and no mention of the fantastic Korg Oasys workstation ?


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## doctoremmet (Feb 8, 2022)

I was unaware the OP wanted us to mention workstation models. He asked about experiences with workstations in general. But I gather you have an Oasys?


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## SupremeFist (Feb 8, 2022)

I scored my first TV docs in the 90s with nothing but a Yamaha W7 workstation keyboard (sequenced from an MPC and then Cubase). Very fond memories of that beast (it was stolen in the 00s), but modern soft-synths and sample instruments just sound better in every conceivable way. 

My current version of "getting away from the computer" is a Roland MC-101 groovebox, which is absolutely wonderful (and afaik sonically identical to a couple of decades of digital Roland workstations), but for production I will still replace those sounds with u-he etc.


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## noises on (Feb 9, 2022)

Nuage definitely in Marce's collection.


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## jblongz (Feb 11, 2022)

milford59 said:


> 2 pages into the thread and no mention of the fantastic Korg Oasys workstation ?


I drooled over that my whole childhood. Finally got it used. Was great and had rich sound. But the production workflow just didn't match what I was already getting in the box. I wish they would just release a VST for it already. Those ROM files are small these days and could go much further in software.


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## hayvel (Feb 12, 2022)

jblongz said:


> I drooled over that my whole childhood. Finally got it used. Was great and had rich sound. But the production workflow just didn't match what I was already getting in the box. I wish they would just release a VST for it already. Those ROM files are small these days and could go much further in software.


I always wanted the Oasys but could not afford it while it was relevant. Watched the demo videos by Stephen Kay many times and played it twice at a shop - what a great piece of hardware. Pretty much unrivaled to date. In comparison, I could not warm up to the Kronos look and feel at all. Do you think a software Oasys would actually be that great to use? I thought the hardware was an integral part of the experience.

Sometimes I check the used market for Oasys' , but not seriously, to actually buy one. Plus they are bulky and heavy and I don't have the space, and who knows how long they last... but maybe... some day 🙄😉


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## milford59 (Feb 13, 2022)

hayvel said:


> I always wanted the Oasys but could not afford it while it was relevant. Watched the demo videos by Stephen Kay many times and played it twice at a shop - what a great piece of hardware. Pretty much unrivaled to date. In comparison, I could not warm up to the Kronos look and feel at all. Do you think a software Oasys would actually be that great to use? I thought the hardware was an integral part of the experience.
> 
> Sometimes I check the used market for Oasys' , but not seriously, to actually buy one. Plus they are bulky and heavy and I don't have the space, and who knows how long they last... but maybe... some day 🙄😉


I have an Oasys 76-key which I bought new when they first came out - it is still working perfectly, although it has never had a lot of use, to be honest. I think that the part of the Oasys which would do well as software would be if Stephen Kay made a VST out of the fantastic KARMA functionality. He did write KARMA as software, but you have to have your Oasys connected in order to use it - a plug-in version of KARMA would be a winner IMO.

Having said that, John Lehmkuhl (Plug-in Guru - who wrote many of the factory voices and Combinations for Korg - including for the Oasys) - has many “karma-like” features in his Unify plug-in, but it’s (understandably) not fully “karmafied” unfortunately.


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## jblongz (Feb 13, 2022)

hayvel said:


> Do you think a software Oasys would actually be that great to use? I thought the hardware was an integral part of the experience.


Either way, we don't be able to escape the menu diving for sound design. As for patch libraries and tempo-related features, I'm sure it will be a decent experience. An NKS-compatible version would make it feel more accessible, but I'm sure most of us here can roll up our sleeves to make controller templates (if your DAW allows it).

Look at the Triton plugin for example, Its sooooo much easier to navigate than the hardware (to me at least). Plus its easier to replace a broken mouse than workstation button.


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## Gminorcoles (Feb 15, 2022)

I like hardware synths and ROMplers because I dont have to worry about the computer and VST issues until the latter parts of a song. The sound of hardware synths are more limited, but I find myself adapting to that. 

I am not one of those people who claims that I need a certain setup to be "inspired" or that the sounds are different or better. 

I just prefer, for now, to start a song on my MPC 4000 with 4 or so synths hooked up to it directly. 

The number one thing this cures is MIDI input latency and jitter. I dont want to make too much of it, because a lot of much better working musicians use just a midi controller and DAW software, but I can definitely tell the difference for certain types of parts like drums and anything with a pronounced rhythmic emphasis. 

I have a Yamaha Montage and a Korg Kronos and while I dont use them to their fullest, they are really convenient in a lot of ways, make some very unique sounds, and have a lot of utility and they are portable. 

I dont use them any longer for the extended "workstation" feature set, ie sequencing or sampling.


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## hayvel (Feb 15, 2022)

I don't own a workstation right now, but if I needed a decent piece of hardware today and wanted to avoid pc integration while still having workstation capabilities, I would probably look for an iPad Pro and a capable controller. Much more flexible and expandable while at the same time cheaper than the workstation offerings. And I think, none of the big manufacturers gets the interface right. They are getting better, but they are still very convoluted, at least to me. 

I really wonder why no manufacturer has yet created a Workstation iPad App + dedicated controller. Maybe to not depend on Apple hardware in the middle....


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## hag01 (Feb 15, 2022)

hayvel said:


> I don't own a workstation right now, but if I needed a decent piece of hardware today and wanted to avoid pc integration while still having workstation capabilities, I would probably look for an iPad Pro and a capable controller. Much more flexible and expandable while at the same time cheaper than the workstation offerings. And I think, none of the big manufacturers gets the interface right. They are getting better, but they are still very convoluted, at least to me.
> 
> I really wonder why no manufacturer has yet created a Workstation iPad App + dedicated controller. Maybe to not depend on Apple hardware in the middle....


And what VSTs do you going to put on your iPad?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most VSTs don't have an iPad version as well, even those which are meant for live usage.

Moreover, I was doing a big research about the controller+laptop route, while thinking about some theoretical dream rig, and I've found that there is no replacement to the acoustic presets that comes with any performance keyboard. Unfortunately contemporary VSTs of orchestral sounds, choir, guitars, ETC, are completely focused on studio usage to a degree that they are not playable on keyboard.
Even if they are playable somehow, it's just not as good for traditional keyboard playing, with all those keys-witches, limited range, limited velocity layers, CC11\CC1 for dynamics instead of velocity, etc(And of course on keyboards they don't really sample every velocity layer, nor they sample an oboe for every note of the 88 keys as there is no such thing in real life, but they know how to work around those limitations in order to create an instruments for KEYBOARDISTS). There some playable presets here and there in VSTs of course, but mainly in low-end VSTs, usually they're not sound better than onboard sounds, and there are no complete sets of acoustic keyboard sounds in a VST(unless you are going to KORG VSTs or something like that, which offers the sound of their previous generations of workstations...).

I remember I've found out eventually that logic\mainstage has all you need for a keyboard rig including acoustic sound and all, but a good controller+Apple laptop with Logic\Mainstage+bunch other favorite VSTs for live performance(mainly synths, pianos, E.Pianos, E.organs)+audio interface, is already more expansive than the most expansive workstations on the market, and it's also much more cumbersome to use live and and system failures are much more likely.

Maybe things had change since than, and the iPad alternative is much better nowadays. Do you have to use an external audio interface with the iPad by the way?


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## hayvel (Feb 15, 2022)

hag01 said:


> And what VSTs do you going to put on your iPad?
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but most VSTs don't have an iPad version as well, even those which are meant for live usage.
> 
> Moreover, I was doing a big research about the controller+laptop route, while thinking about some theoretical dream rig, and I've found that there is no replacement to the acoustic presets that comes with any performance keyboard. Unfortunately contemporary VSTs of orchestral sounds, choir, guitars, ETC, are completely focused on studio usage to a degree that they are not playable on keyboard.
> ...


Hey there,

I think this is a misunderstanding. I'm not saying this combination would be a pc replacement, but I think it would make a decent a hardware workstation alternative. The iPad is not VST compatible afaik, but there is a range of really great apps for music performance and production. So in comparison to something like a Montage or Fantom, I think the iPad can compete quite well. You can use it with or without an audio interface, but you have a point there that the i/o is better on a workstation by itself.


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## antret (Feb 15, 2022)

noises on said:


> Nuage definitely in Marce's collection.


Another Yamaha EX5 fan I see! Mine is still going strong. 

While the EX5 is definitely considered a Master Keyboard I just have not used it as a centerpiece master mind since being able to do just about everything in the box. Do I use it for some sounds? Sure. The UI of those old Yamaha's took a little time to get around....

I have the Korg M3M(odule). That is a little more user friendly (touch screen, piano roll editing) and I found myself starting some songs on that thing. It has a USB connection and a 64 bit VST editor so there are a lot of pluses to it..... but.... not much real world use. the hardware is great when people come over. fun, accessible sounds.


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## Rich4747 (Feb 15, 2022)

Korg Oasys is special, still works fine. Stephen Kay put some magic in it. not really kidding about the magic.


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