# XLR Audio over Cat 6



## easyrider (Mar 5, 2021)

I have a Drumkit permanently mic-ed up on my double Garage conversion.I use my laptop and my Audient ID 22 and ASP 880 to record them....

Is there a away of sending the sound of kit to another location?

My main DAW machine is in the house with my piano and keyboards etc...and I use this 90% of the time....but when I want to record drums I have to unplug my iD 22 from main PC take it to the garage plug it into my laptop and faff about .

I’m using an Audient ID 22 on my Daw machine and Audient ASP880 in the drum room and then I connect the ADAT from this to my ID22 and then connect the ID 22 to the laptop in the drum room....

I’ve thought about buying another ID 14 and just leaving it plugged into the laptop and ASP 880 in the garage permanently....but this means mirroring the studio one sessions between Main DAW machine and Laptop...

This is getting me down and transferring audio between machines is doing my head in.

What is the solution to record the drums onto the main DAW pc in the house?

I have a Cat 6 connection to the Garage is this of any use?

I thought about moving the ASP880 into the house and running one of these to the garage...

https://www.thomann.de/gb/pro_snake_mts_80_s_multicore_20m.htm

Running an ADAT cable would be easier but the length of the run is to great at 50ft and the problem is any cable would have to go underground outside under grass...

Anyone got experience of running ADAT over Cat 6 ?

I have seen seen this....looks to me that I can run my ADAT connection from the ASP 880 in the garage into the ID22 in the house over cat 5/6



https://appsys.ch/en/shop/product/6-adx-8







There is a two way version allowing the ADAT out from the ID 22 to a ADAT headphone amp in the garage so I could hear what I’m recording...

https://appsys.ch/en/shop/product/5-adx-16


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 5, 2021)

Could you possibly just run a snake (drum mic's) from the garage into your main studio somehow? Then, all you would need is a remote headphone amp and you could record via a tablet running Cubase IC pro (it's a remote to your main DAW).


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## easyrider (Mar 5, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Could you possibly just run a snake (drum mic's) from the garage into your main studio somehow? Then, all you would need is a remote headphone amp and you could record via a tablet running Cubase IC pro (it's a remote to your main DAW).


Thanks for the input,  I’m not sure how a snake would fair under ground under soil and grass....plus the entry holes will be bigger....I’ve linked to a snake in my OP

One cat 6 cable would be easier to run and external cat 6 can be buried directly into the ground....

I was thinking of using Studio One Remote to control the Daw from the drumkit....plus I was thinking if I run two cat 6 cables I could in theory run 64 channels of ADAT from the Garage should I expand my IO. Having everything mic-ed up all the time is a bit of a dream...I have a number of guitar amps in there too...

8 channels of audio would be fine for my kit for now though....

The ID 22 has ADAT output too...so in theory could feed a Headphone Amp with ADAT to listen back...


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 5, 2021)

How about another laptop or PC running VST Connect? All you would need is a fast internet connection in the garage.









VST Connect: Remote Recording Solution


VST Connect: the remote recording solution that lets you collaborate with any musician with an Internet connection and a computer — anywhere on the planet.




new.steinberg.net


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## easyrider (Mar 5, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> How about another laptop or PC running VST Connect? All you would need is a fast internet connection in the garage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I still need to run cables....Controlling the DAW is not the issue as I will be using Studio One Remote on iPad....

I think I’ll give this a go....






ADX-16
 






appsys.ch


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 5, 2021)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. You are wanting to record live drums (which are already mic'd and in your garage), and get the audio into your main DAW in the studio (in the house). If you just used internet, you could record into your main DAW remotely using someone like VS Connect, no? No cabling required, just an internet connection.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 5, 2021)

The high-priced solution would be a Dante network. A more reasonable alternative if the ADX-16 doesn't work out might be a pair of Hear Technologies Extreme Extenders. You would need one Extreme Extender ADAT In and one Extreme Extender ADAT Out (they're sold separately).

Two caveats. While the Extreme Extenders are still listed on retailer websites, I'm not positive that they are still in production. And I'm not sure how much jitter either the ADX-16 or the Hear Technologies products introduce.

EDIT: a third caveat is that the Hear Technologies products are not bidirectional. To be the equivalent of the ADX-16, you would need two pairs and two CAT5/6 cables.


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## easyrider (Mar 5, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding. You are wanting to record live drums (which are already mic'd and in your garage), and get the audio into your main DAW in the studio (in the house). If you just used internet, you could record into your main DAW remotely using someone like VS Connect, no? No cabling required, just an internet connection.


I might as well use my laptop and just share the Studio One Session to a network share....

I would still need to use my ID 22 audio interface and laptop...no need to slow things down by the internet when my whole house including garage is networked. So I don’t really understand what benefits I get using VS connect....

I’m trying to avoid unplugging things etc..


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## easyrider (Mar 5, 2021)

I would need a Headphone Amp with ADAT in though....

Any recommendations ?

This looks ok









Swissonic HAD-1


DA Audio Converter and Headphone Amplifier With USB 2.0 port, 24 Bit 96 kHz, Headphone output: 6.3 mm jack, Analogue stereo input: RCA, Digital input: S/PDIF, Digital stereo output: S/PDIF output, Surround multichannel playback via S/PDIF output...




www.thomann.de


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## easyrider (Mar 6, 2021)

A guy over on Gearslutz linked me to these @ £15 each !









🔌 the sssnake Cat Snake 3FB


Passive Cable Splitter RJ45 socket to 4x XLR 3-pin female, Analogue stage box that uses the 4 wire pairs and the shielding of a network cable rather than a 4-channel multicore to send 4 analogue signals from A to B., Compatible with any shielded...




www.thomann.de





Just need to run 3 cat 6 cables and make sure I buy shielded cable....

Im getting excited....a solution at low cost ! Might even run 6 cables and have 24 channels connected for guitar amps etc....


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## rrichard63 (Mar 6, 2021)

easyrider said:


> A guy over on Gearslutz linked me to these @ £15 each !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For the price, these are almost worth getting just to try them. But I'd want to test this in my setting and/or find published field tests. One issue I'm aware of with conventional stage snakes is that mixing mic-level and line-level signals doesn't always work. I would think that crosstalk or other interference between pairs would be even more of an issue over CAT5.

Thanks for the link. It might be something I can use myself.


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## easyrider (Mar 6, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> For the price, these are almost worth getting just to try them. But I'd want to test this in my setting and/or find published field tests. One issue I'm aware of with conventional stage snakes is that mixing mic-level and line-level signals doesn't always work. I would think that crosstalk or other interference between pairs would be even more of an issue over CAT5.
> 
> Thanks for the link. It might be something I can use myself.


Nothing ventured nothing gained....If they don’t work the cable will still be in to run an ADAT link .


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## dgburns (Mar 6, 2021)

@easyrider How bout that Behringer S16 digital snake?


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## Jiffster (Mar 6, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I have a Drumkit permanently mic-ed up on my double Garage conversion.I use my laptop and my Audient ID 22 and ASP 880 to record them....
> 
> Is there a away of sending the sound of kit to another location?
> 
> ...


Dante seems like the toolset you're looking for. Heaps of options from focusrite for exactly this kind of thing. I recently switched my entire studio to a Dante setup, I'll never look back. Signals are pretty much as clean as you can get.


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## dgburns (Mar 6, 2021)

Jiffster said:


> Dante seems like the toolset you're looking for. Heaps of options from focusrite for exactly this kind of thing. I recently switched my entire studio to a Dante setup, I'll never look back. Signals are pretty much as clean as you can get.


I’m on Dante too, but it might be more expensive to go that way. It’s def the future, imho.


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## Jiffster (Mar 6, 2021)

dgburns said:


> I’m on Dante too, but it might be more expensive to go that way. It’s def the future, imho.


You're right, there's definitely some up-front investment to think about. Totally agree it's the future. Bye bye cable tangle nightmares! Everything is finally clean! And now with the Avio suite of converters expanding it feels like a really safe and future-proof area to invest in.


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## easyrider (Mar 6, 2021)

dgburns said:


> @easyrider How bout that Behringer S16 digital snake?


Not sure how I would use it?


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## easyrider (Mar 6, 2021)

3 x male 3 x Female

8 channels for Drums
Stereo Return to Garage from Studio






3 runs of Cat 6 Shielded cable....But I think I’ll put 6 runs in so I can permanently mic my guitar amps....I’ll use an XLR patch bay in the studio to patch in drum mics and Guitar vocal mics


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## dgburns (Mar 6, 2021)

easyrider said:


> 3 x male 3 x Female
> 
> 8 channels for Drums
> Stereo Return to Garage from Studio
> ...


Is that analog? Wondering about running 300 ft over that cat cable? Dunno. I’d go with something Dante.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 6, 2021)

dgburns said:


> Is that analog? Wondering about running 300 ft over that cat cable? Dunno. I’d go with something Dante.


If the cable run is really 300 feet, I think I might agree. If I recall correctly, high frequency response is suppose to decline with distance. On the other hand, ADAT over CAT5 is supposed to work at that distance and even longer.


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## twincities (Mar 6, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> If the cable run is really 300 feet, I think I might agree. If I recall correctly, high frequency response is suppose to decline with distance. On the other hand, ADAT over CAT5 is supposed to work at that distance and even longer.


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## easyrider (Mar 6, 2021)

dgburns said:


> Is that analog? Wondering about running 300 ft over that cat cable? Dunno. I’d go with something Dante.


I’m running 50 -60 ft


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 6, 2021)

I wouldn't run ADAT lightpipe any distance at all without a wired connection carrying the digital clock in parallel. It's notoriously jittery - although I vaguely remember reading about some kind of system that makes it work better over long distances... or maybe it was at a Grammy rehearsal where they had some other kind of fiberoptic connection.

The weatherproof Ethernet cable sounds like the most practical solution to me.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 6, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The weatherproof Ethernet cable sounds like the most practical solution to me.


Ethernet carrying analog or Ethernet carrying ADAT?


Nick Batzdorf said:


> I vaguely remember reading about some kind of system that makes it work better over long distances..


I think that might have been ADAT over Ethernet cable (e.g. the Appsys Pro Audio and Hear Technologies devices mentioned near the beginning of the thread). That would not solve the problem of jitter in the short lengths of fiberoptic at each end, but whether it would add to the jitter problem is something I don't know.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 6, 2021)

twincities said:


>



For use in a PA system, that's an impressive demonstration. For use in a music recording studio, he would need to send pink noise down the wire and put the returned signal through a spectrum analyzer.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 6, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Analog over Ethernet or ADAT over Ethernet?


Analog, but I don't know how well ADAT works over Ethernet.


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## rrichard63 (Mar 7, 2021)

@easyrider, please let us know how your chosen solution works out for you.


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## easyrider (Mar 7, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> @easyrider, please let us know how your chosen solution works out for you.


Sure thing , will do....The guy responding to my post over at Gearslutz is guiding me through it...Today I chipped out the concrete between the paving slabs ready for the cable run across the grass...


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## easyrider (Mar 12, 2021)

Decided upon,after much discussion,to not use the cat 6 snake from thomann....but to use the cat 6 cable and still run 4 channels of audio down cat 6 but terminate them into an XLR panel either end...

This way negates the cost of the network sockets either end....negates the cost of the actual snakes and I just buy the Pre Punched 19” rack panel And fit my own Neutrik XLR male and female either end...I’ve also decided to run a 3 core waterproof external electrical cable down as well to drive my 4 x 12 speaker cab so I can control the amp from my studio control room. Initially I’ll connect 8 channels of audio for the drumkit and 4 channels for the guitar amps and Cab.

So this equates to laying 2 x cat6 cables and 3 core cable for the Cab.

I‘ll actually lay 5 x cat 6 cables that will allow 20 channels of audio from the garage into my studio and I can connect them when I need them.


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## easyrider (Aug 30, 2021)

Update: I dug the trench and laid the cable….6 x cat 6 individually shielded…






Decided to go with ethercon XLR snake boxes….









I bought 8 of them for now…anyway connected the CAT 6 either end to….
Neutrik EtherCON Cable Connector Cat6A Nickel Plating NE8MX6​The connection is very robust and fits perfectly with a satisfying click.











Just finished the first connection, Works perfectly….Crystal clear audio from my drum room into my house! 👍

The Neutrik connectors are expensive but figured I would do it properly and in the grand scheme of things , worth it….


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## easyrider (Aug 30, 2021)




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## rrichard63 (Aug 30, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Works perfectly….Crystal clear audio from my drum room into my house!


Very glad to hear that. Can you run a white noise signal from one end to the other and look at it in a spectrum analyzer at the destination end? I'm still a little concerned about loss of high frequencies.


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## easyrider (Aug 30, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> Very glad to hear that. Can you run a white noise signal from one end to the other and look at it in a spectrum analyzer at the destination end? I'm still a little concerned about loss of high frequencies.


What’s the easiest way to do it?

I have a mic setup in the drum room…


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## rrichard63 (Aug 30, 2021)

easyrider said:


> What’s the easiest way to do it?
> 
> I have a mic setup in the drum room…


I forgot that there's no audio interface and computer in the garage unless you move them there temporarily. So this is more work that I thought, and probably more than it's worth as long as you're happy with the audio you're getting.

You could do a round trip from house to garage and back again, patching the inbound and outbound lines together at the garage end. There would be a DA conversion from your studio PC to the CAT6 and an AD conversion (via line in rather than a mic preamp) back to your studio PC. This would let you compare the source signal and destination signal in two instances of an analyzer plugin side-by-side on the same computer screen.

Ideally, we would want the test signals to be at mic level and impedance rather than line level and impedance. (Impedance mismatches in cables and connectors are, at least on paper, one cause of signal degradation.) But that would require a separate piece of gear, called a direct box or DI, to convert the line out from your audio interface to a mic signal.

And, to be super thorough, you could also look for crosstalk between circuits. That would involve multiple test signals in parallel. Shielded twisted pair should minimize crosstalk. How good this is in practice I don't know.


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## easyrider (Aug 30, 2021)

rrichard63 said:


> I forgot that there's no audio interface and computer in the garage unless you move them there temporarily. So this is more work that I thought, and probably more than it's worth as long as you're happy with the audio you're getting.
> 
> You could do a round trip from house to garage and back again, patching the inbound and outbound lines together at the garage end. There would be a DA conversion from your studio PC to the CAT6 and an AD conversion (via line in rather than a mic preamp) back to your studio PC. This would let you compare the source signal and destination signal in two instances of an analyzer plugin side-by-side on the same computer screen.
> 
> ...


A: I’ll record an acoustic guitar in the Drum room using installed cat 6 Xlr snake….

B: I’ll record an acoustic guitar in the control room direct to mic pre….

Then compare the two in a spectrum analyser?

I’ll post both files here and you can decide which one is recorded 20m away from the Mic Pre….

👍


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## rrichard63 (Aug 30, 2021)

easyrider said:


> A: I’ll record an acoustic guitar in the Drum room using installed cat 6 Xlr snake….
> 
> B: I’ll record an acoustic guitar in the control room direct to mic pre….
> 
> ...


It will be easy enough to match the guitar itself, microphone and mic placement. It will be very hard going on impossible to account for the differences in room acoustics. But you can minimize that problem by mic-ing the guitar very close. And minimize it even further by using something like one of these:









MudGuard™ v2 Microphone Isolation Shield


The unique, patented, multi-radii convex shape of the MudGuard™ v2 is designed to direct any unwanted and off-axis acoustic energy away from the microphone. The non-perforated, solid back on the MudGuard v2 allows for maximum sound isolation by blocking reflected sound from the recording...




auralex.com







https://www.seelectronics.com/reflexion-filter-x





https://www.seelectronics.com/reflexion-filter-pro


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## Soundbed (Aug 30, 2021)

twincities said:


>



[email protected] that was awesome. I am also from the twin cities. 


rrichard63 said:


> For use in a PA system, that's an impressive demonstration. For use in a music recording studio, he would need to send pink noise down the wire and put the returned signal through a spectrum analyzer.


crush my dreams of building a mile and a half wide recording studio why don’t you?


easyrider said:


> Decided upon,after much discussion,to not use the cat 6 snake from thomann....but to use the cat 6 cable and still run 4 channels of audio down cat 6 but terminate them into an XLR panel either end...
> 
> This way negates the cost of the network sockets either end....negates the cost of the actual snakes and I just buy the Pre Punched 19” rack panel And fit my own Neutrik XLR male and female either end...I’ve also decided to run a 3 core waterproof external electrical cable down as well to drive my 4 x 12 speaker cab so I can control the amp from my studio control room. Initially I’ll connect 8 channels of audio for the drumkit and 4 channels for the guitar amps and Cab.
> 
> ...


sounds like you got some great advice.


easyrider said:


>


what an exciting thread. I wired my last house with cat6 and still need to decide on all my Ethernet routes for my current house. Some of them will be hdmi over Ethernet (home theater stuff). keep us apprised!


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## kgdrum (Aug 30, 2021)

I know I’m late, I never noticed this thread until just now.
First I know close to nothing about what you’re trying to do technologically but I used to work in the audio world via extreme high end hi-fi. We did lots of custom installation work(I was in sales) but we often had to be creative & used Gefen for cable extenders which helped us so we were able to do all sorts of things with Cat 5 or Cat 6.
In case you’re not familiar with them I thought you might want to check them out with the possibility that they offer something useful.






Which Gefen extender should I use? | Gefen







www.gefen.com


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## easyrider (Sep 17, 2021)

I have all 16 channels wired up now…and I also ran a 20m Guitar Cab speaker cable using 4 core 2.5mm electrical wire in parallel.








Soldered the ends of this cable with Neutrik 1/4 jack connectors and can now have amps In the control room and record the cab in the live room

All working like a charm!

This is a game changer for me….I can now mic the CAB in the live room while playing in the Control Room and record.

Sound is perfect.

I have the Cue Mix Feed from my interface going back to the live room for monitoring using CAT6….I have this currently going into a mixer to provide the headphone out….I will get a 6 or 8 channel Headphone amp soon once I’m happy with everything.











Grass has grown back….rockout






Just need to tidy up a bit!


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