# Probably the best two keyboard controllers out there



## novaburst (Sep 16, 2017)

Of late we have seen the birth of two fantastic controllers.

early on was the new M Audio CTRL 49 

And the latest N I new Komplete Kontrol 


Bothe controllers look very eye candy and have out of this world integration with DAW and Plugins

I can only guess that both have the highest usability and quality

So then if your keyboard controller came to its end and you had a choice what one would you choose and why.

The M Audio CTRL or the new NI Komlete Kontrol







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gtK9Ro6y1E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTBkkmHF5U8


----------



## mc_deli (Sep 17, 2017)

I wouldn't touch M-Audio again with a barge pole, especially if it's heavily software-dependent.


----------



## lastmessiah (Sep 17, 2017)

The M-Audio for sure.


----------



## novaburst (Sep 17, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> I wouldn't touch M-Audio again with a barge pole, especially if it's heavily software-dependent.



Never had any issues with M Audio, I have been through Yamahas, i have a Alesis semi weight and its new, i picked up the 2nd generation Axiom semi weight key controller from ebay for under a £100 a few months ago and its my main keys so nice to play and has a great feel, it has some very old software Direct link and can still be found on the M Audio website works like a charm don't really use it for the DAW but for plugins and library and its playability.

But i can see you have had some bad experience with M Audio


----------



## lastmessiah (Sep 17, 2017)

Actually I would choose the new Code series over the CTRL-49 http://m-audio.com/products/view/code-61-black


----------



## novaburst (Sep 17, 2017)

The code is a nice controller.

I think what's taking these newer controllers to a new level is the VIP software, and the colour screen,.it has a very nice appeal about it, and from the looks of it shortens the use of the mouse

Weather that's an advantage or not I don't know, 

It looks like they are trying to inspire a new way of usage.


----------



## HiEnergy (Sep 18, 2017)

Can anyone tell me whether the NI controller keyboards require Native Access for installing the drivers/NKS software and authorization?

Edit: Seems NI stuff now requires mandatory Internet access. :(


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 18, 2017)

Drivers are installed from NI's website, not via NA. Komplete Kontrol software is downloadable via NA.


----------



## novaburst (Sep 18, 2017)

HiEnergy said:


> tell me whether the NI controller keyboards require Native Access for installing the drivers/NKS software and authorization?



Never really thought of this haha.

Any way looks like the way is good to go.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 18, 2017)

Interesting how some people consider remote-controlling plug-ins the most important feature of a keyboard controller.

For me, by far the most important thing in a *keyboard* controller the feel of the keys - all 88 of them.

Well, that assumes the instrument is reliable. I have two retired Kurzweil K250s, which have a fantastic feel, in my garage for that reason. The second was for parts for the first.

After that I want the mod and pitch wheels in line and to the left of the keyboard, a design choice rather than a feature. Having MIDI faders on my Kurzweil K2500X is very useful, and I also like the big ribbon controller (the small one with pressure is sort of okay, although I never use it).

But I'd rather have a dedicated controller for the NI functions if I needed them.


----------



## lastmessiah (Sep 18, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Interesting how some people consider remote-controlling plug-ins the most important feature of a keyboard controller.
> 
> For me, by far the most important thing in a *keyboard* controller the feel of the keys - all 88 of them.
> 
> ...



I have a hammer action piano controller for composing/hashing out ideas. A typical midi keyboard controller is usually not great for serious playing; I mostly like to have one for parameter control and note entry (which you can do just as easily with m&k if you ask me). A synth/semi-weighted controller without DAW integration is kind of useless.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 18, 2017)

Then I guess it's mainly a matter of terminology, although I can't say I agree that a controller without DAW integration is useless. Outdated, sure, but not useless!

(Disclaimer: I did literally dozens of projects using a DX-7 as the controller.)

It depends on how you use it, I guess. I'm not into triggering things - which I'm not saying is good or bad.


----------



## novaburst (Sep 18, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Interesting how some people consider remote-controlling plug-ins the most important feature of a keyboard controller.
> 
> For me, by far the most important thing in a *keyboard* controller the feel of the keys - all 88 of them.



I guess there are many different approaches to laying down parts of a music composition, if you just look at the number of notes on these controllers, 25, key, (49, perhaps now the common favourite of many) I have put aside my 88 key Yamaha fully weighted and prefer the semi weighted, shorter range with octave shift, but I just thumble through notes I am not really a piano player, then you have the 61 key then the 88 controller.

the reason they make all these ranges is because there are so many approaches to creating and playing music, some keyboard players and I mean pros, have adapted to using machine and ableton push to play chords and melody's.
and I don't mean pre-recorded chords I mean holding a number of pads down to create chords.

its a big world outside of you and me and lots to learn.

The approach of having a nice HD colour screen on your keyboard controller I can only say innovation taking place, again NI machine was the 1st idea then Akai the same Developer Andy Mac that developed it for Akai brought it over to M Audio known as the VIP Software, NI has its own version. these are all that I know of that have championed this maybe there are more out there.

Having meter display, faders, summoning plugins, scrolling for plugins, record delete and much more with out even once touching the mouse, or clicking for the plugin or library inside your DAW doing a great chunk of composition just on your key board controller its kind very appealing.

I would not say its the end all and the way forward, I would say its another way forward.

But why not have both ways in front of you....ok now thats just greedy


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 18, 2017)

Sure there are many different approaches! I use an EWI (wind controller) for some things, also a drumKAT (although it's not set up at the moment).

My comment was just because of the thread title - "best keyboard controllers."

Part of that is that I stumble less using weighted keys. There was a time when I still liked unweighted keys for things like WW and brass, but that must have been when I first switched.


----------



## TheNorseman (Sep 18, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Part of that is that I stumble less using weighted keys. There was a time when I still liked unweighted keys for things like WW and brass, but that must have been when I first switched.



I agree with this 100%. I have an m audio with synth action keys and I bump into other keys all the time. I find that when I play on a weighted board, that doesn't happen nearly as often.


----------



## germancomponist (Sep 18, 2017)

In the very past I had a Casio VZ synth, and its keyboard was amazing. Yeah, it was a Casio!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 18, 2017)

At first I read that as CZ, as in CZ-101. 

No velocity.


----------



## germancomponist (Sep 18, 2017)




----------



## synthpunk (Sep 18, 2017)

The best keyboard controller to play 80s hits on!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 18, 2017)

http://www.alesis.com/products/view2/vortex-wireless


----------



## chimuelo (Sep 18, 2017)

Physis K4.
I heard they use this on the big jobs.


----------



## novaburst (Sep 18, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> http://www.alesis.com/products/view2/vortex-wireless


Is this for live performance looks like


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 18, 2017)

I'd say yes, keytars are intended for live performance.


----------



## Maximvs (Sep 19, 2017)

49 keys are not enough for my liking, hope M-Audio will release a 61 keys at some point and I may consider it.


----------



## enCiphered (Sep 19, 2017)

Best out there?

When someone is talking about high-quality keyboard controller, Kurzweil, Doepfer or Roland comes in my mind. I wouldn´t even dream of spending my hard earned money for plastic, mass production ware.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Sep 19, 2017)

For performing and pleasure > Ivory feel, weighted, triple sensor, wooden feel hammer action. With gold stripes.

For general composing, programming , anything m-audio/alesis/cheap is fine providing it responds predictably to velocity input. You don't need a $2000 controller to play single note violin lines whist working the dynamics with a fader. Just saying..


----------



## novaburst (Sep 19, 2017)

enCiphered said:


> Best out there?
> 
> If someone is talking about high-quality keyboard controller, Kurzweil, Doepfer or Roland comes in my mind. I wouldn´t even dream of spending my hard earned money for plastic, mass production ware.



I can understand you, but times have changed, these plastic keyboard controllers do have a lot of quality and feel behind them, especially keyboard action,

I am using a secondhand controller that has been around for quite some time but it's operating perfect, and yes it's made out of plastic and rubber, it has a nice weight to it very solid feel and semi weight keys and tuff lasting build well mine is secondhand and still going strong.

There is a difference from want do it and it's able to do it, and adapt to it.

I have access to three real life pianos and after playing them and going to my controller I do not feel a drop in quality and feel, 

Also when you are trying out something new, it takes a little time to get accustomed to it after about 30 minutes or so you begin to get a feel for it.

I used to have 3 keyboards rigged up 88 fully weighted a lite 61 key, and a 49 key, I would use the 88 key for piano work, the lite key for percussion, and the 49 for Daw.

I can do all of that just with the 49 semi weight controller but it took a little getting used at first.

Saves time less clunk,more space, and freedom. 

The Developers understand that there will be many that play real life and will accommodate for you, many have made the switch and will never go back.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 19, 2017)

I actually have a very high-quality 4-octave synth-action keyboard on a Yamaha VL1. It has aftertouch, three really nice wheels, sliders, and it doesn't feel cheap, just unweighted.

It's hard to imagine any reason I'd want to use it, since I have an 88-key weighted Fatar keyboard bed on my Kurzweil K2500X.


----------



## Woodie1972 (Sep 19, 2017)

I use the NI Komplete Kontrol S88 as my main controller, next to a Yamaha Clavinova digital piano. The S88 is really a great controller with a very nice keybed and when you load some decent (piano)samples it is fun playing


----------



## novaburst (Sep 19, 2017)

Woodie1972 said:


> I use the NI Komplete Kontrol S88 as my main controller, next to a Yamaha Clavinova digital piano. The S88 is really a great controller with a very nice keybed and when you load some decent (piano)samples it is fun playing



Well if you pre order the new NI Komplete Kontrol 88 you will see out of stock, that show that it is a well sort after keyboard controller and I don't think the user will be using another keyboard for their music once they get hold of the K K 88 and it has lite keys but many have said very nice to play and keys have a nice feel.

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keyboards/komplete-kontrol-s49-s61/pricing/


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 19, 2017)

If by "nice feel" you mean "sluggish", then fine. There are better keybeds out there, they shouldn't have gone with Fatar TP/100LR, they should've gone with TP/40WOOD.


----------



## novaburst (Sep 19, 2017)

I hear you, I dont have one just going buy read ups,

But the story tells the fact it's well sort after to the point it's sold out so this would have been positive feed back from the previous KK 88

I can only see anyone who purchased an 88 would have piano in their mind and not likely to be using another keyboard controller.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 19, 2017)

That is, until you play the RD-2000, which is just so much better than any Fatar action


----------



## bjderganc (Sep 20, 2017)

@EvilDragon 

Do you have a 61 key recommendation for synth/ep playing? 
Stage keyboards seem to be the only controllers with reliably good build quality, but I'd love something smaller.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2017)

For synths, NI's controllers really do have a very good action, it's the top of the line synth-weighted keybed from Fatar which is used in a lot of other products, including Virus TI 2, etc. I wouldn't say it's good for playing electric pianos, but it is passable. For synth stuff, it's excellent.


----------



## novaburst (Sep 20, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> That is, until you play the RD-2000, which is just so much better than any Fatar action



The Roland, Korg, Yamaha, all make high level keyboards,

Can only say you can buy one with your eyes closed and still be happy with it.

Just not sure if you can compare as the KK 88 cost well under a 1000, and I am sure the type of keyboard your talking about would be in the price range of a few 1000 .

What has happened today is especially NI has broken into the keyboard world and they are holding there own against the best of them and perhaps have more software integration, plus comes with a decent play action and the build quality is high,

Today's music composer, producer needs not look beyond that to produce something of high level, and great play action, with a low price range.

M Audio, Akia, NI have broken new ground.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 20, 2017)

Even Casio PX5S has better action than S88 as far as I'm concerned, and it's in a similar price range. And it has triple sensor action, stuff that's important for a piano player.


----------



## enCiphered (Sep 20, 2017)

novaburst said:


> What has happened today is especially NI has broken into the keyboard world and they are holding there own against the best of them and perhaps have more software integration, plus comes with a decent play action and the build quality is high,



More or better software integration is good.
But there is a huge difference between pressing just keys and the feel to play a real piano.
I could never have that feeling with NI controllers. 
For me it is like having to mix a song with a gaming headset. It´s not possible.

A unified system to manage virtual instruments and plugins is a good idea but it shouldn´t require a specific controller from a specific company. I don´t support such a monopolistic and greedy approach.


----------



## novaburst (Sep 20, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Even Casio PX5S has better action than S88 as smear as I'm concerned, and it's in a similar price range. And it has triple sensor action, stuff that's important for a piano player.





enCiphered said:


> More or better software integration is good.
> But there is a huge difference between pressing just keys and the feel to play a real piano.
> I could never have that feeling with NI controllers.
> For me it is like having to mix a song with a gaming headset. It´s not possible.



I can understand that there are very high level keyboards controllers that offer a lot of advanced action know one can argue with that, 

I think it would be very difficult to accept that you can get a high level of play action from these developers keyboards of late NI and so on especially if you have been using these high level keyboards, like Korg, 

Maybe @EvilDragon there are some that are in the same price range that have better play action than the NI I agree with you.

But there is no denying that there has been and still will be for a long time to come many compositions and music production of the highest level just by using these underated plastic cheap keyboard controllers some of the stuff being produced is mind blowing. 

The new generation of producers are unstoppable, there attitude is if it plays a note that's good enough,

They will go on to produce greatness.

Some with insperation piano melody's you would thinks they used a grand piano but they used the cheapest of keyboards.

Some are just skillful some are gifted, some will not be limited by the keyboard unless it has know keys.


----------



## Alex Fraser (Sep 20, 2017)

novaburst said:


> I can understand that there are very high level keyboards controllers that offer a lot of advanced action know one can argue with that,
> 
> I think it would be very difficult to accept that you can get a high level of play action from these developers keyboards of late NI and so on especially if you have been using these high level keyboards, like Korg,
> 
> ...



Interesting points for sure.
My controller for the past 12 months or so has been a (lamentable) Alesis Q49. I've kept it whilst trying to decide what to replace it with and which direction I want to go with ergonomics etc.

The thing is, despite actually hating the feel of it, I've managed to get work done. Blocking out chords, programming, orchestral mockups - all of these are possible and doable. Whilst an 88 hammer action would be preferable for detailed performance, for 90% of the tasks I do, the plastic stuff is fine.

And that's the thing. Take a stroll through YouTube and you'll see producers being amazingly productive on all sorts of cheap stuff. So much modern production doesn't require triple sensors or ivory feel. I get it - for performance and pleasure, I want something as close to a piano as possible. But for production, it's less essential than a lot of us would like to believe.


----------



## zadillo (Sep 20, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Well if you pre order the new NI Komplete Kontrol 88 you will see out of stock, that show that it is a well sort after keyboard controller and I don't think the user will be using another keyboard for their music once they get hold of the K K 88 and it has lite keys but many have said very nice to play and keys have a nice feel.
> 
> https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keyboards/komplete-kontrol-s49-s61/pricing/



I think you might be confused, there isn't a new Kontrol 88 keyboard. Only the 49 and 61 key versions have been upgraded to Mk2. The 88 Mk2 is probably coming next year


----------



## novaburst (Sep 21, 2017)

zadillo said:


> I think you might be confused, there isn't a new Kontrol 88 keyboard. Only the 49 and 61 key versions have been upgraded to Mk2. The 88 Mk2 is probably coming next year


Thanks for the heads up , I just assumed all would have a face lift, none the less still it's out of stock, means it's a favourite to say the least.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 21, 2017)

novaburst said:


> none the less still it's out of stock, means it's a favourite to say the least.



Or that the stock wasn't that big in the first place


----------



## zadillo (Sep 21, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Thanks for the heads up , I just assumed all would have a face lift, none the less still it's out of stock, means it's a favourite to say the least.



The only Kontrol keyboard not in stock right now from the NI store is the S25.... I don't see an out of stock message on any others (and the S49 and S61 are marked for preorder). The S88 is also in stock at most online retailers too like Sweetwater.

NI has said that the 49 and 61 key models got the update to Mk2 first because they're the most popular models. Sounds like they'll be doing the 88 next year (the 25 key version sounds like it needs more of a rethink given available space)


----------



## novaburst (Sep 21, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Or that the stock wasn't that big in the first place



@EvilDragon hahaha well can't say becuase I'm. Not in the sales Control at NI, you may have a point, but can only say if your sold out get more in but that was a day or so looks like they have more back in stock now

Still I would have thought the 49 would have been the the one to be sold out.


----------



## chimuelo (Sep 21, 2017)

Add one of these to make those one Pedal only plastic coffins for more control.

https://ameliascompass.com/


----------



## jon wayne (Sep 21, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Even Casio PX5S has better action than S88 as smear as I'm concerned, and it's in a similar price range. And it has triple sensor action, stuff that's important for a piano player.


Best kept secret keyboard. I don't mind admitting I have a Casio.(even if it is white!)


----------



## khollister (Sep 21, 2017)

chimuelo said:


> Add one of these to make those one Pedal only plastic coffins for more control.
> 
> https://ameliascompass.com/



To be fair, there are 2 pedal inputs, at least on the NI units.


----------



## khollister (Sep 21, 2017)

I'm trying to decide on my keyboard upgrade (have been using a 61 key Axiom for the past several years - on my second one due to failure). I was going to go 88 key, but the comments about the action of the S88 concern me and while I expect the Roland A-88 action is OK, I hate the spring-loaded mod stick.

Since much of the stuff I use on a regular basis is going (or already is) NKS compatible, I'm now thinking a S61 mkII may be the overall best answer. I am not a good enough piano player to really need a 88 keyboard for performance.

Question for the group - I think I read that the S49/61 have a weighted synth action keybed that is fairly well regarded, correct? Only the S88 has the hammer action Fatar that is controversial?

My local stores do not generally stock any of the higher end 88 key units to try (S88, A-88 or certainly the RD2000). They have plenty of cheap M-Audio junk though.


----------



## bvaughn0402 (Sep 22, 2017)

I have some Kurzweil keyboards which work. I'm forcing myself to not buy anymore major equipment until I release two albums of music first.

But with that in mind, I think I will wait for the S88 MK2. Hopefully they will improve the keybed, keep the bigger lights, and incorporate the screens.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 23, 2017)

bvaughn0402 said:


> keep the bigger lights



Won't happen if they do an mkII of it. The reduced LED size will happen in that case (which, actually, isn't a problem in practice at all - it's less distracting and still serves its purpose very well - yes I have a beta unit )


----------



## Hywel (Sep 23, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Won't happen if they do an mkII of it. The reduced LED size will happen in that case (which, actually, isn't a problem in practice at all - it's less distracting and still serves its purpose very well - yes I have a beta unit )


If you have a beta S88 MkII are you allowed to tell us if it has an upgraded keybed?

Hywel


----------



## Michael Antrum (Sep 23, 2017)

I do most of my work on a Nord Stage 2EX - which I love. I had a Roland RD 700GX with the supernatural upgrade - and it has a better key action than the Nord. For Piano that is. But when it comes to playing other instruments the fantastic piano action can also prove be a hindrance.

When playing other patches I think the keyboard on the Nord is a better all rounder - but i also have an S61 for other stuff and portability 

(Yes the Nord was bought for carrying about, but the S61 is even smaller and lighter and is great for when I am working away and don't need an 88 keyed).

But as much as I like the S61 - it still feels a little on the cheap side when compared to my old Roland XP-80. (At least I remember it that way).

If NI brought out the MKII S88 with a set of 100mm faders for controlling CC's - well they won't - but if they did !!!

(BTW I recently bought a pair of iLoud Micro Monitors for hotel room duty. For £ 190 they are insane !!!)


----------



## novaburst (Sep 23, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> yes I have a beta unit



@EvilDragon you certainly are speaking from experience......


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 23, 2017)

Hywel said:


> If you have a beta S88 MkII are you allowed to tell us if it has an upgraded keybed?



There's no S88mkII just yet (and probably won't be for some time), only 49 and 61. I got a 49.


----------



## Sami (Sep 24, 2017)

What's the situation with NKS integration on current VIs? E.g. if I use an NKS-compatible VI, say Spitfire I need to instantiate Komplete Kontrol, from there instantiate Kontakt (Full, not Player right?) and from there I get directly mapped parameters? If anyone's got experience with Spitfire in particular, how's articulation switching and CC control with the keyboards? With the current Back to School discounts, hands are really itchy for Tundra and SSO... Might have enough left over for the S61


----------



## jonnybutter (Oct 18, 2017)

I need a new weighted controller. I'm a piano player so I want something that plays really well. I have an old Kurzweil that I finally have the money to replace.

Will try the Roland RD-2000, but not sure I want to spend $2500 on a controller. I don't need the sounds or the knobs/faders etc. I was interested in the VAX (?) you-assemble controller, but they seem on hold. I'll even consider the Casio PX5S - if it worked well (was accurate midi-wise) and lasted ~5 years, I'd possibly be OK with that.

I've found Roland keyboards to be on the heavy side in the past, but they were at least consistent and you could get used to the feel - and I have to admit that I'm talking about ~15 year old ones. Probably better now. I've also found Casio digital pianos to be kind of stiff and sluggish, but willing to be pleasantly surprised by something a little more professional, i.e. the PX5S.

I've always liked Yamaha keyboards, and had a few...any model weighted controller from them people like? I really just need a keyboard w/ pitch+mod wheel (not joysticks! ).

EDIT: I realize that it's not unheard of to spend $2500 on a good controller. I just wish there was a nice weighted controller - just a controller - for less than that.


----------



## Aceituna (Aug 31, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Even Casio PX5S has better action than S88 as far as I'm concerned, and it's in a similar price range. And it has triple sensor action, stuff that's important for a piano player.



I am upgrading my MIDI keyboard and I am considering 2 options (second hand):
- Komplete Kontrol S88
- Casio Privia PX-5S

Which one do you recommend?


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 31, 2019)

I would suggest checking both out and seeing which action feels better to you. S88 has a bit lame MIDI implementation IMHO (and no sliders apart from two touchstrips, which aren't everyone's cup of tea).


----------



## Aceituna (Aug 31, 2019)

I know Casio keyboards.
I use a CDP230 and my daughter plays in a Privia PX-770
I mainly lack in my CDP230, a ModWheel.
This is the reason I am thinking in a PX-5S (second hand). I prefer to use a wheel for modulation than a fader (I use as well a Korg nanoKontrol)
But I am wondering if Komplete Kontrol is better for DAW integration.


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 31, 2019)

Depends which DAW you use, KK doesn't support all DAWs equally well. You need to think if you need DAW integration more than actual wheels (S88mk1 doesn't have them). PX-5S would be a better choice in your case IMHO, but this should be your decision.


----------



## Aceituna (Aug 31, 2019)

I use FL Studio
But, for expression, I like the Modwheel touch/feel


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 31, 2019)

Yeah then you should probably go with PX-5S. S-series doesn't have a great integration with FLS.


----------



## Eckoes (Aug 31, 2019)

How is the S-series integration with Reaper these days? Last I heard, getting basic things like transport control to work was tricky or impossible.

That’s really the only thing holding me back from buying one.


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 31, 2019)

Both versions of S-series now have basic MCU support, so controlling transport and track volume/pans is possible. Also see https://github.com/jcsteh/reaKontrol


----------



## Aceituna (Aug 31, 2019)

I never had a keybord with modwheel. Only with pitchbend.
My question is, when using pitchbend wheel, it returns to central position always. Is it the same for ModWheel?


----------



## EvilDragon (Aug 31, 2019)

No, modwheels are in 99.9% cases freewheeling.


----------



## AndyP (Aug 31, 2019)

I like to use an expression pedal and what annoys me is that at least with my Korg model only the Yamaha Modx 7 supports it properly.

Neither my Korg, my M-Audio nor my Alesis Keyboard does the pedal stroke correctly. 

Expression Pedal is my most important controller.

Unfortunately nobody has been able to give any advice so far. It only helps to go into the store, connect and seemed if it works.


----------



## Quasar (Aug 31, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Interesting how some people consider remote-controlling plug-ins the most important feature of a keyboard controller.
> 
> For me, by far the most important thing in a *keyboard* controller the feel of the keys - all 88 of them.



Ditto. I use a Yamaha CP33, which has an excellent graded hammer piano action (though if I were wealthy I'd get a 3-sensor board), and of course has no DAW-integration software because it's a stage piano. For lighter touch, non-percussive VIs, I tried several 61 key controllers that I disliked, but adore my Novation Impulse. This has the so-called synth action, but has a more substantial, nuanced tactile touch response that does not feel cheap, and the aftertouch works beautifully. It does come with proprietary software for transport controls and all of that, but I never installed it and have no use for it.


----------



## kclements (Sep 1, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> No, modwheels are in 99.9% cases freewheeling.



unless you’re stuck with the damn Roland paddle thingy. Absolutely worthless as a mod wheel control. No idea why they continue to make that on nearly all their boards.


----------



## EvilDragon (Sep 1, 2019)

Roland's joystick doesn't count as "modwheel".


----------



## Reid Rosefelt (Sep 1, 2019)

I love controlling my libraries with my S88 Mk II. I have accumulated a lot of NKS libraries as well as NKS templates for non-NKS libraries. So I would never consider any other keyboard unless it's a new version of the S88. 

But I agree with @EvilDragon. There are better keyboards you can buy than the S88. I've owned some and played some in the past. If there were more options for 88 key NKS keyboards I would definitely be interested in exploring them. And I doubt I would have my S88 if not for NKS.


----------



## bill5 (Sep 5, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Roland's joystick doesn't count as "modwheel".


And thank God for small favors. I hate the wheels and how hard it is to find the joystick control, which IMO is infinitely better...my only gripe with those is they make them ridiculously tiny, like they were made for Lilliputians or something.


----------



## GtrString (Sep 6, 2019)

I use both a Yamaha CLP wheighted piano and an M-Audio Axion Pro 49 controller, and definitely need both. Piano is great for... piano, all things keys and strings, and the controller is great for synths, programming, the modwheels, quick transposition ect. I couldnt do without any of them. Inoften play the piano, while using the modwheel on the controller at the same time.

The M-Audio is getting of age, and it was never super great. The keys are sticky, the action a little high, and the software is meh. I will go for an Auturia or a NI keyboard next time.

The Yamaha CLP is good, but of course lacks modwheel ect. I could imagine a Casio stage piano would be as good or maybe even better (of course the Roland ect. are great!), if the hammer action is good. Or maybe get a Nord for the best of both worlds and only have one..


----------

