# Hollywood Brass Statement



## Nick Phoenix (Jun 16, 2011)

East West seems to always get into trouble here. That's why I stopped posting. Really I think it comes back to PLAY issues. I am hopeful that we are in good shape with PLAY 3.

As you may know, we announced the Hollywood Series 3 years ago and have been working very hard to make it a reality. We have a major Hollywood Strings update finished that will release along with PLAY 3.0. We are very committed to this venture.

Hollywood Brass has been in the works for a while. We have gone the extra mile on this one and yes the competing library announcement took us by surprise. Clearly something recorded at Sony with Dennis Sands is going to sound very good. I understand the sentiment here and see that everyone wants to support the small developer that is responsive to requests and comments. Just realize that amongst all the great feedback and back and forth that was going on, major jabs were thrown at us, from our competitor which included criticism of our studio, PLAY and Hollywood Strings. At this point we had said nothing. I find it odd to demonize us when these events are considered. It surprised me when I heard about it, because I met one of the Mikes a few days before and he was very nice and friendly.

Naturally, we want to defend our brass instrument which has been our life for the past year. Three weeks of recording and one year of editing and programming. Do we want everyone to go out and buy a competing library that has a similar mindset soundwise, before our library is released? No, we don't. Because we lose. However, once I tried the competing library, I realized that something else was going on. The competing library sounds really good, but is the result of a single day of recording, done very recently and rushed to the market for obvious reasons. Once released, the expansion was announced the very same day, after we published our articulations and prices and certain things came to light about their release. There is a bit of a brass war going on. It's probably funny to some. We just want people to know that our best work to date is coming in less than a month. 

Concerning the musicians: I can't say who we used, but they are all members of a club and all are very familiar with the top soundstages in town. We paid them really, really well. That's how we got the top guys. And we paid them for 3 weeks work. 3 weeks recording versus 1 day is quite a difference that will become apparent. And we feel we are making our library accessible to everyone with low prices. Its not $8400, it's $800.

Concerning Thomas' posts. Everything Thomas said is true. Thomas has contributed so much to this brass library and part of what makes his mock ups so good is in this library. He plays trumpet and you will hear the TJ magic in Hollywood Brass. And I am sure that there will be many demos from other composers that will be very impressive, once the library is out there. We have always tried to make the best products we can and in spite of some major PLAY hiccups, are still trucking along. 

Actually scratch everything I said. I hope no one buys HB. It'll just be Thomas' and my secret weapon.


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## midphase (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks for the info. Is it safe to assume that PLAY 3 will come out on or before HB is released?


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 16, 2011)

Yes, before the release of HB. I think it is important see our commitment to the engine (and also to improving HS) before we release another big library.


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## Casey Edwards (Jun 16, 2011)

I really dislike all this "he-said, she-said" stuff in a professional circle such as CineSamples and East-West, 2 companies I really admire for their work. I'm choosing to just ignore it and move on because in the end I think both sets of guys are good hearted and hard working people who just got a little defensive/offensive about their products in a public place where we get really extensive openess from developers, which I hope is something that we NEVER lose! I hope, Nick, that you don't chose to stop posting here regardless. Yes, PLAY can really piss my PC off, but the libraries you guys release I don't think will ever be in question of their quality. Long live healthy competition and I hope this thread doesn't become full of a bunch of mouth diarrhea from fan-boys on either side.


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## stonzthro (Jun 16, 2011)

Yeah, thanks for the info. 

Personally, I stopped using EW libraries altogether because of how clunky PLAY has been on my end (I know not everyone is having bad experiences, but for me...). I sincerely hope PLAY 3 redeems the brand!


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## reddognoyz (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks for posting here Nick. I, for one, am hoping there's room for both of these libraries in my arsenal, I've been a critic of PLAY, I've felt the development has moved too slowly, but I have always been a huge fan of the EW sound. I also understand that part of what you personally want out of PLAY stems from the way you work as a composer. I think that's the same with the Mikes. Different tools for different processes. 

I did see a fair share of jabs at you in the very long brass thread, but I think it was mostly from the peanut gallery and it's awfully easy to sit in the balcony and toss casual darts. 

I am pulling for PLAY 3 and HB to it out of the park. I think most everyone else here is as well.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 16, 2011)

Hi Nick.

Well, I can see how all of this could look from your perspective. But I really, really doubt you'll lose many sales over CB. As I posted in a CB thread, I think most people will get both, because HB will be much more detailed, while CB will be a really easy to use, low footprint library. And the price on both libraries is very low - anyone "serious" about composing with samples, will have no problem finding money to get both I believe.

I have been one of those who have criticized PLAY a lot - and rightfully so - the problem is, that EW (you, Doug, Thomas, etc...) can't deal with criticism - even when it is founded. PLAY has now been in development for how long... 5 years? And pretty much from day one we have heard your speech about how much better than Kontakt PLAY is and that Kontakt can't handle what PLAY can. And with each update you have promised that NOW PLAY is really working. So I really think you brought this on yourself... (Oh, and let me mention faster loading times. I don't know how you did it in PLAY 3, because two months ago it was "impossible").

Having said that, I have bought tons of EW products and I love the sound, the possibilities in the products. It's just been let down by the software - especially on Mac. I have set up a slave PC recently just for PLAY and it remains to be seen how that fares, but I hope it'll do well, especially with the PLAY 3 update.

And yes, I preordered HB already And seriously, I don't think HB sales will be hurt by CB - at least not significantly. And competition is good. Keeps everybody on their toes.


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 16, 2011)

Casey Edwards @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> I really dislike all this "he-said, she-said" stuff in a professional circle such as CineSamples and East-West, 2 companies I really admire for their work. I'm choosing to just ignore it and move on because in the end I think both sets of guys are good hearted and hard working people who just got a little defensive/offensive about their products in a public place where we get really extensive openess from developers, which I hope is something that we NEVER lose! I hope, Nick, that you don't chose to stop posting here regardless. Yes, PLAY can really piss my PC off, but the libraries you guys release I don't think will ever be in question of their quality. Long live healthy competition and I hope this thread doesn't become full of a bunch of mouth diarrhea from fan-boys on either side.



Good post. Bigging up your own products and away from the other people's commercial announcement threads is the way to go, surely. Also CineSamples have the support they have by being very open and responsive to feedback - no reason why EW can't be in the same boat in future!


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## jamwerks (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks for the post Nick. o-[][]-o


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## devastat (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks for the post Nick! I am sure that most of us will get both CB and HB and am sure they are both great! Thanks for making HB affordable o=<


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## germancomponist (Jun 16, 2011)

Every day I look at soundsonline and here, because I can`t wait to listen to the first demo. 

Detailed recordings with a good sound/timbre were always on my to buy list.


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## booboo (Jun 16, 2011)

I'm sure we all appreciate the heartfelt explanation, but at the end of the day....

Less talky more showy.

Stop talking about why HB is better and put up a demo or something for christ sake.
My biggest issue with EW is the snake oil PR - rushed announcements (with arbitrary release dates that don't actually happen), talking about how amazing it is, how it's goign to change my life....

If you say NOTHING, but put up insane killer demos BEFORE you've put any of the BS out there, everyone will love you for it. But now you guys are already cashing in douché tokens.

Do for your library what the his and her's Lambos does for you and thomas. Show me.


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## jamwerks (Jun 16, 2011)

I’d be interested in some details about Play 3 ! o[])


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 16, 2011)

jamwerks @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> I’d be interested in some details about Play 3 ! o[])



Let's hope it comes out before next year at least 8)


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 16, 2011)

jamwerks @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> I’d be interested in some details about Play 3 ! o[])



You do know it's a performance-only update, right? 64 bit for Mac, claimed improved load times and other performance issues. No new features, it's currently in public beta and will be out before July 15.

I'm in the beta team but don't think I'm allowed to comment publicly - all the above is known general info.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 16, 2011)

Before July 15? Sounds good Praying that 3rd time's a charm


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## deniz (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks for the info Nick,

in my opinion the people are frustrated about playengine.
the reason for this is,long awaited 64 bit engine for mac(play 3),crashes,delayed release dates ect.

you have done so much work into HB(HS) and i think it will be worth to wait for hollywood brass. o=< 

but for now, finish your work and everyone will be amazed. :D 


cheers

deniz


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## artinro (Jun 16, 2011)

Based on what Nick said above, Play 3 should be out decently before July 15th since HB is supposedly going to be released July 10th :wink: Good news indeed.


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## Rob Elliott (Jun 16, 2011)

My gut says Nick and crew are going to hit this one out of the park (Play 3 and HB). o=<


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 16, 2011)

booboo @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> I'm sure we all appreciate the heartfelt explanation, but at the end of the day....
> 
> Less talky more showy.
> 
> ...



Nice. He extends an olive branch and you smack him in the face with it with snide remarks.

As for who you really are, "less talky, more showy" might be appropriate if you have the courage of your convictions. For all we know, you work for a competitor.


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## Tino Danielzik (Jun 16, 2011)

I really don't know whats going on on this forum. Does this happen here all the time or does something change? 

I joined this forum just a few weeks ago and I can't believe what's going on here. Is this a problem cause there is no direct talk, just all these posts, so we get all these misunderstandings?! Imagine you would exhibit at a fair, would someone talk like that?! Or like Nick said, he met one of the Mikes a few days before and he was very nice and friendly. So, again, what's going on here?!

And just a reminder: "Who makes V.I. a great community? You do! V.I. Control Forum's motto is *musicians helping musicians*."


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 16, 2011)

It's ok. We are not quite ready to show. The announcement came near the end of a very long process for us. I will show something soon. I was waiting so I could show one instrument/section in detail in a video, but we are just finishing the legato repetition script.


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## booboo (Jun 16, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Nice. He extends an olive branch and you smack him in the face with it with snide remarks.
> 
> As for who you really are, "less talky, more showy" might be appropriate if you have the courage of your convictions. For all we know, you work for a competitor.



I don't intend to come across of as snide. Honestly. 
The melodramatic conspiracy theories is a little silly either way.

For the record, I bought Cinebrass and kinda feel like it's a soft fail. I also own 5 PLAY libs.

I look forward to the video. Especially anything ƒƒƒ


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## Pedro Camacho (Jun 16, 2011)

Nick Phoenix @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> East West seems to always get into trouble here. That's why I stopped posting. Really I think it comes back to PLAY issues. I am hopeful that we are in good shape with PLAY 3.
> 
> As you may know, we announced the Hollywood Series 3 years ago and have been working very hard to make it a reality. We have a major Hollywood Strings update finished that will release along with PLAY 3.0. We are very committed to this venture.
> 
> ...



To be honest, I am just glad that you came back to Vi Control.
This situation alone will definitely make me more inclined to buy the library.

Any serious composer needs the best tools and the best tools are with East West.
Sure Play has been bad, but I have faith in Play 3. Really high hopes.

Also be sure that from all website one the web, the only resource where you can get people that tell you the problems as they really exist are here. All the rest forums will ban us from saying any kind of criticism to any library.

This is why I PAY to support this forum. Because it gives people (the lower voice) a chance to post what is REALLY happening.

Also be sure that no one here will tell a library is good just to make you smile, they will tell you from the heart. And I prefer one good honest feedback than tons of fake people saying good things just to please me.


Btw, for some reason I logged in to East West forums (which I online have one post) and I am banned.

I did a couple (2 or 3) more posts there in my life but all are never published. None of these posts were criticizing anything or anyone.

Strange and unfriendly situation.







I won't create another nick, I will wait until someone solves this situation.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jun 16, 2011)

Tino Danielzik @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> I really don't know whats going on on this forum. Does this happen here all the time or does something change?
> 
> I joined this forum just a few weeks ago and I can't believe what's going on here. Is this a problem cause there is no direct talk, just all these posts, so we get all these misunderstandings?! Imagine you would exhibit at a fair, would someone talk like that?! Or like Nick said, he met one of the Mikes a few days before and he was very nice and friendly. So, again, what's going on here?!
> 
> And just a reminder: "Who makes V.I. a great community? You do! V.I. Control Forum's motto is *musicians helping musicians*."



It's not always this bad, it kind of comes and goes in waves. the post above is a reason why this forum is so valuable.


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## Danny_Owen (Jun 16, 2011)

Looking forward to HB- Cinebrass DOES sound great, and it's the tone that sells it. The blended mic positions and recorded Bricasti reverb I have to say were a stroke of genius. And some patches are currently hands down the best in the industry at those articulations and sounds.

But it is far from a complete library. I own it, and for some things it is more than sufficient and sounds amazing straight out the box- but for other, more complex or specific things it won't really cut it. The 'pro' edition will cover some of it, yes, but the extra cost of that really can't be discounted, and it may still be a long way from the extensive articulation and dynamic layer list of HB.

I really look forward to seeing what you guys have cooked up, and I'm sure it will be pretty amazing. I've always thought the tone and recording of all EW samples (both orchestral and non-orchestral) has been second to none- I expect it will still be at the least very good if not brilliant here.

I can understand the frustration that EW must feel at the sudden release of CB, and personally, between whatever harsh words were said either way I can forgive, it's NOT just a business for these guys. 

We are all composers here (or trying to be), and in fact just human, so really we should be able to relate to this. Who here can honestly say that they haven't become emotionally involved in a project that they've worked on for over half a year or longer? 

Strong reactions are just the result of emotions, and that's why I'm willing to forgive anything said either way. All sample library producers pour a lot of themselves into their products- generally I'd imagine the more time they spend on it the more they're emotionally involved in it.

The results, either way, good or bad will speak for themselves. Let's let the samples do the talking. 

Enjoyed this HB statement, I think it was the right thing to do and necessary for the people forget that music business are really run by people just like us.


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## Audun Jemtland (Jun 16, 2011)

No need for war,there's room enough for both.

You all have your heart in it. Remember to always smile and don't let any negativity influence you.


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## zvenx (Jun 16, 2011)

I appreciate the openness and honestly of Nick's post.
thanks
rsp


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## Frederick Russ (Jun 16, 2011)

Hi Nick, 

Thanks - If the genuine nature of your post is any indication of things to come with Play 3 and HB, then I sincerely doubt you will have any problem selling it. Best of fortune.


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## Ed (Jun 16, 2011)

I think if it sounds great and Play gets a massive improvement, the work will speak for itself and the customers will speak to its excellence. 

What would make HS an undesirable product to people? Extremely ridiculously long load times, massive amounts of patches, huge patches, weird Play bugs. 

You fix that, or the brass is done differently so some of those things don't apply, then that will really help to get rid of reasons why people wouldn't want it.


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## dannthr (Jun 16, 2011)

If anything, these sorts of arguments/disputes/wars/goings-ons only demonstrates the genuine passion that's gone into virtual instrument development, and that is a beautiful thing.

When developers are passionate about their products we all win.

This community's passion for solid instruments of musical creation will prevail ultimately and I think we can all disregard the pettier manifestations of that passion in lieu of the broader picture--which is for us all an enhanced production potential--truly invaluable.


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## SvK (Jun 16, 2011)

These HS critiques are unfounded. There is nothing stopping anyone from using HS to write / produce fantastic string arrangements, right now, straight out of the box. 

Yes it will require a powerful system. So what? I want huge patches. I want the closest thing to realism I can get. I bought HS because it is state of the art. I want 4 vel layers for Non-Vib and 3 vel layers for medium vib and another 3 vel layers for molto vibrato. I expect to read the manual thoroughly to get the most I can out of this product.

End of story...

Of course there will be bugs with the patches. Its a HUGE library. When Vienna first came out there were bugs with the patches forever, that's the way it goes...it gets sorted out...

HS rox. 

SvK


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## Daniel James (Jun 16, 2011)

SvK @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> There is nothing stopping anyone from using HS to write / produce fantastic string arrangements, right now, straight out of the box.





> Yes it will require a powerful system.



The contradiction so soon made me chuckle a little  

I seriously hope the can curb those painful load times in PLAY that is the biggest barrier between me and the samples. As it stands right now I never use HS unless its doing a very specific job...it never gets used in my writing and only occasionally gets used in the polishing stage. This is the reason I will never splash out on a diamond edition again. I expected when I paid premium price to receive a premium product, but it turned out I'm forced to use a substandard engine in order to use the thing I really paid the money for..the samples. 

Keep in mind I love the sound which is why I am so dissapointed that I can hardly ever use them. REALLY hoping PLAY 3 is the answer I have been waiting for! Not only will that allow me to use the samples finally but maybe it will put an end to all the rage :D


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## SvK (Jun 16, 2011)

Daniel...

I dont get it. 
Do you have a dedicated slave HS computer? 

If your planning to do full-on string productions, with powerful LEG presets, that is how it is meant to be used.

One dedicated HS slave machine. You load the template with EVERYTHING in the morning and it stays on all day. Where's the problem?

My HS template is 18gig big and has everything. I don't "switch" to a different HS template....

ps: Consumers want companies to come out with libraries that mirror the real-deal as closely as possible.....then when companies put their heart and soul into providing tools that do just that, they are peaved to discover their newly purchased "real deal" library requires serious horsepower.

HS is not a VW. It's a Ferrari. It requires some serious muscle to perform. And when you have the right tools, all the problems go away.

HS Diamond + I7 Intel + 24gig RAM + 360gig revo SSD = ZERO problems.

best,
SvK


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## dannthr (Jun 16, 2011)

Daniel seems to work in the box, from his videos, no farm.


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## marcotronic (Jun 16, 2011)

audun jemtland @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> No need for war,there's room enough for both.
> 
> You all have your heart in it. Remember to always smile and don't let any negativity influence you.



+1

Being a beta tester of Play 3 and loving the sample quality of EW products I have just pre-ordered HB without ever hearing any demos of it  And I already have CineBrass - I´m sure both libs complement each other very well.

Marco


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## Daniel James (Jun 16, 2011)

SvK @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Daniel...
> 
> I dont get it.
> Do you have a dedicated slave HS computer?
> ...



As previously stated I work in the box, and I would fully agree with your argument IF I didnt think similar results were achievable on a smaller system....points to LASS

In my opinion (and of course thats what this is) The extra cost it takes to be able to run the PLAY engine the way you are suggesting with dedicated machines does not give a significant enough improvement in quality to an end product... when you have libraries like LASS which can do the same job on a much more modest system, with a smaller footprint and faster load times.

As others have mentioned in the past when comparing Kontakt libraries to the exact equivalent on PLAY...Kontakt will out perform PLAY when it comes to things like load times and system requirements....I imagine HS would be exactly the same. Like I say I really hope PLAY 3 rides in to save the day but as it stands right now I dont think its a very well optimized engine when directly compared to the competition.

Dan


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## SvK (Jun 16, 2011)

Daniel ,

That's fair....
Im happy you like the sound of LASS. I agree about the performance issues of PLAY2. However for me personally the passionate sounds achievable with HS exceed all other libraries to such a ridiculous degree that I could not settle for anything else.

Best,
SvK


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## Daniel James (Jun 16, 2011)

SvK @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Daniel ,
> 
> That's fair....
> Im happy you like the sound of LASS. I agree about the performance issues of PLAY2. However for me personally the passionate sounds achievable with HS exceed all other libraries to such a ridiculous degree that I could not settle for anything else.
> ...



I agree, I love the sounds in HS...I just wish I could use them!

Dan


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 16, 2011)

Daniel James @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> SvK @ Thu Jun 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel ,
> ...



You CAN but you might have to be willing to do some things given you rig that you apparently are not willing to do, like commit parts to audio at some points, as I am doing.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 16, 2011)

I don't intend to come across of as snide. Honestly. 
[/quote]

Given that we cannot hear an ameliorating tone of voice or see an ameliorating expression on your face, explain to me how a statement like "Do for your library what the his and her's Lambos does for you and thomas." can come across as anything but snide.


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## mverta (Jun 16, 2011)

Thomas_J @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Have you not seen Bring it On - In It To Win It?!?!?!
> 
> If it wasn't for some of the thin skinned people that populate this forum there would be no endless threads about what John Smith and his dog think about other people's "outrageous, highly immoral, bad taste, lack of class and improper behavior". What happened to being a MAN? Some good old fashioned pumping testosterone and war mongering?! What a bunch of pussies some of you are!! Lol! Just the other day I read an article about a poor guy who got thrown off a plane for saying "What the f#@k is taking so long?!?". To my great surprise (and much in character with this place) the comments random people were leaving were in FAVOR of the airline's decision! How depressing is that..
> 
> ...



Now _that's_ what I like to hear. 

_Mike


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 17, 2011)

Pedro Camacho @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> Btw, for some reason I logged in to East West forums (which I online have one post) and I am banned.
> 
> I did a couple (2 or 3) more posts there in my life but all are never published. None of these posts were criticizing anything or anyone.
> 
> ...



Join the club 8)


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 17, 2011)

Thomas_J @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> Have you not seen Bring it On - In It To Win It?!?!?!
> 
> If it wasn't for some of the thin skinned people that populate this forum there would be no endless threads about what John Smith and his dog think about other people's "outrageous, highly immoral, bad taste, lack of class and improper behavior". What happened to being a MAN? Some good old fashioned pumping testosterone and war mongering?! What a bunch of pussies some of you are!! Lol! Just the other day I read an article about a poor guy who got thrown off a plane for saying "What the fuck is taking so long?!?". To my great surprise (and much in character with this place) the comments random people were leaving were in FAVOR of the airline's decision! How depressing is that..
> 
> ...



Ha! That's kinda funny... a few posts ago someone was saying "is this place always like this?!" like VI-Control is Fight Club, now we're Knitting Club! Must be doing something right...

Thomas, if you want a full on bear pit, I'd try KVR. You can waste a life there arguing with offensive trolls. Yes, at VI-C there is a predominant spirit of fair play which gets broad support (such as competitors not bashing other people's products in their Commercial Announcements), but I think that's a pretty good thing. It needn't - and doesn't - get in the way of honesty.

And be careful what you wish for. Nick has now twice (or more?) stormed out of VI-C after criticism - perhaps just pointing out some "facts" about Play vs Kontakt on a public forum. This place is full of people who have had problems with EW products. I don't think its the right thing to do to lay into you guys unrestrained with abuse, but honest constructive feedback is essential and as Pedro has found it isn't always possible at Soundsonline. It's great to have Nick back, his input is invaluable and he's phenomenally talented, but I hope he can handle the knitting club this time!

And you're right of course - CineSamples and yourselves will both be going hell for leather to make the best libraries out there. Wow, can't wait to see what happens when LASB gets released....


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## rayinstirling (Jun 17, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> I don't intend to come across of as snide. Honestly.



Given that we cannot hear an ameliorating tone of voice or see an ameliorating expression on your face, explain to me how a statement like "Do for your library what the his and her's Lambos does for you and thomas." can come across as anything but snide.[/quote]

Jay,

I'm sure you are a very nice person and passionate about this music thing but!
please allow the majority here to make their own judgement on such remarks and move quickly on therefore ignoring them. 
I'm SURE Play 3 is a major step forward, and that is the main concern of most.
I know it's difficult but just ignore the oxygen thieves and they'll fade away quietly.

-Ray


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 17, 2011)

SvK @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> Daniel...
> 
> I dont get it.
> Do you have a dedicated slave HS computer?
> ...



With PLAY it really doesn't matter how much RAM and how fast a CPU you have - even with SSD's the load times of HS is pretty high compared to the competing format... 8) 

Do you think it's a coincidence they have made such a big deal about PLAY 3 being much faster at loading patches? Would they bother if they (and their customers) didn't see this as a problem?

I appreciate the detail of HS, and upcoming HB, but if it comes at the cost of being a bitch to work with... I would rather have a library that goes 97% of the way than one that goes 100% and kills creativity along the way.

It seems to me that HS was released before PLAY was really ready for such a huge, complex library. Let's hope PLAY 3 changes this.


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## rpaillot (Jun 17, 2011)

Thomas_J @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> SvK, thanks for your flattering comments on HS! I had a feeling early on that you'd appreciate the level of detail it offers, and make it sing. And you did.



Don't worry Thomas, there are quite a lot of HS admirators. They just dont speak a lot

HS strings are gorgeous and uncomparable to their out-of-tune competitor LASS .. you simply can't do Williams like strings with LASS.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 17, 2011)

rpaillot @ 17/6/2011 said:


> HS strings are gorgeous and uncomparable to their out-of-tune competitor LASS .. you simply can't do Williams like strings with LASS.



And of course, all we want are Williams-like strings. And perfection, because great music is perfect. :roll:


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 17, 2011)

I didn't know that strings in Williams' scores were different from other composers' - stupid me, I thought it was his compositions and orchestrations that made his style.


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## rpaillot (Jun 17, 2011)

Simon Ravn @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> I didn't know that strings in Williams' scores were different from other composers' - stupid me, I thought it was his compositions and orchestrations that made his style.



Simon... don't get me wrong. It's of course his style primarily , I agree.

But secondary, it's the recording and mixing ( shawn murphy ) . 
LASS has awesome expression , but the tone of the LASS strings are imo not good, even for "non-williams" strings It doesnt sound like what a string section should sound in real life. 
When you hear the HS cellos , compared to lass. The HS one just "sit" in the mix. It feels like you have 10 cellos in front of you. While the LASS one, although having the same number of cellos, feels like a smaller string section. And you need better mixing skills to reach HS level.

It's like VSL trombones or trumpets, same numbers of players as cinebrass. But cinebrass sound 100x more powerful and large...

Again, this is just my opinion. Maybe my ear sucks.


R


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## TheUnfinished (Jun 17, 2011)

In before the complete derail...

Whilst Hollywood Brass and Strings are both beyond my needs (and financial position given that I'd need to purchase more hardware to use them) I am excited about the possibility of PLAY 3 improve loading times and CPU hit.

I bloody love Silk, but PLAY's Jekyll & Hyde character when operating has stopped me from purchasing further East West products, even though I want to. So a robust, improved performance PLAY 3 will be awesome.

Good to have Nick back. And as long as the dialogue remains honest, everyone will benefit from an increased East West presence here (including Jay and TJ).

Maybe we should introduce a Chillout Lounge forum where we all post ambient compositions and quote ancient Buddhist texts, so people can go there when the ire rises within!

Cheers,
Matt


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 17, 2011)

rpaillot @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Fri Jun 17 said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't know that strings in Williams' scores were different from other composers' - stupid me, I thought it was his compositions and orchestrations that made his style.
> ...



Well, LASS sounds very different from HS yes. When I use LASS, I mostly use LASS to layer on top of other strings, also because it has a closer sound that I usually prefer. But HS doesn't sound like a CLASSICAL Williams score either (Indiana Jones, Star Wars, E.T., Harry Potter). There's a lack of top end air, and generally I think the sections take up too much frequency bandwidth on each own (e.g. the violins still have a lot of mid/low freq) and that brings it much closer to the sound of scores like A.I. and Minority Report I think.

I agree however that you can probably get closer to a "Shawn Murphy sound" (whatever that is) with HS, than with LASS. Having said that, Williams has used different engineers, not just Shawn Murphy and those scores sound every bit as Williams as the Murphy ones. Also, try comparing a score like E.T. with Minority Report/A.I. - all done by the same engineer, but with different orchestras and probably different venues as well. I think it is fairly easy to agree that those scores sound vastly different - both from a sound/mix standpoint and from a compositional one. 

Which again leads me to say that Williams' strings don't have any particular sound, no matter who mixes it, it all depends on the room you record in, the orchestra, and most of all I would argue: The composition/orchestration and what sound you are aiming at in the mix.


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## Daniel James (Jun 17, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Daniel James @ Thu Jun 16 said:
> 
> 
> > SvK @ Thu Jun 16 said:
> ...



I hope you can see why I am so reluctant though...firstly I would be needing many expensive additions to my set up to compensate for the poor optimization of one library...i mean i think i am right in saying its a poorly optimized engine when the word is that the next update will signifiantly reduce loadtime, you couldnt do that if the engine was fully optimized. 

I maybe part of the knitting club here but I dont come here for agressive confrontation...its a virtual instrument forum for fksake. I love the spirit of healthy competiton forcing companies to create better products, as a consumer it works out best for me however i think some, including developers, should be less agressive towards those who have genuine critisism...if it feels like people are beating a dead horse then you should probably get rid of it so people can move on. 

Most of you guys particually TJ and Nick are infinatley more talented than I will ever be, that being said im never gunna come here and suck their dicks and lie to them tellin them everything works great and its the best thing since sliced bread in the vain hope they befriend me and some of that talent rubs off on me....that will help no one! Instead I try to tell it as I see it in The hope they can step up to the plate and make something great...

Dan


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## dannthr (Jun 17, 2011)

I really don't think that comparing LASS and HS is even appropriate--HS' philosophy seems to be all about the two dimensional crossfade which, as we should all appreciate, adding a dimension of samples to a cross fade increases the size and load time of a patch exponentially.

LASS doesn't do this, I wish it did, and I'm sure that IF it did, its patches would be at least (at the very minimum) twice as large, if not more for the legato transitions.

LASS is all about programming via Divisi sub-patches, and creating subtle expression by emphasizing or de-emphasizing one divisi texture over another. But you have absolutely no control over the vibrato of the library.

They are completely different approaches.

If one works for you over the other, great, but they aren't comparable--to try is silly.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 17, 2011)

rayinstirling @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jun 17 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't intend to come across of as snide. Honestly.
> ...



Jay,

I'm sure you are a very nice person and passionate about this music thing but!
please allow the majority here to make their own judgement on such remarks and move quickly on therefore ignoring them. 
I'm SURE Play 3 is a major step forward, and that is the main concern of most.
I know it's difficult but just ignore the oxygen thieves and they'll fade away quietly.

-Ray[/quote]

Probably good advice but I am constitutionally wired to defend people attacked in a nasty way.

If you have been here a while then you know that when I log in as Ashermusic I am just as likely to do the same for any other company as EW. Ultimately people make up their own minds but when I see what I consider rude behavior I am going to comment on it and I think we all should.


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## nicoroy123 (Jun 17, 2011)

Nick Phoenix @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> East West seems to always get into trouble here. That's why I stopped posting. Really I think it comes back to PLAY issues. I am hopeful that we are in good shape with PLAY 3.
> 
> As you may know, we announced the Hollywood Series 3 years ago and have been working very hard to make it a reality. We have a major Hollywood Strings update finished that will release along with PLAY 3.0. We are very committed to this venture.
> 
> ...



Nick, I am very happy to read you back on this forum. In the last weeks/months, I have seen many situations where users were reporting glitches with HS; I was happy to see that most of them were acknowledged and confirmed in less than 48hours by EW personnel or representative on this forum, with a fix coming up in the next update.

I think this is THE RIGHT attitude to have. I think there is no shame for a company to admit a glitch in such a complex product if this company is sincerely committed to fix these issues to the entire satisfaction of their customers. If the product is really good, (which is the case with HS), I think the customers will be more incline to forgive if they feel they are respected and listened to. 

Now with the imminent release of HB, Play3 and HS new update, I sincerely hope that this will be a fresh start for East West, especially on this forum. 

I agree with some that the best argument to make people buy HB over the competition would be a demo of the product itself. Words won't convince as much as sounds!

Regards


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## JohnG (Jun 17, 2011)

Good post, nicoroy.

I agree with many things you wrote and can second the view that HS has undergone many very helpful revisions already. 

With lower load times, re-tuned violas, and some other fixes on the way, HS is going to be better than ever. The most powerful patches sport a huge number of samples, so if one is looking for "simple," those patches aren't the best choice. But then, I don't think LASS' more complex patches and divisi are simple either. To wring something really great out of any sophisticated library takes substantial experimentation and work to discover what combinations sound the best. 

Divisi, modwheel, effects, Auto-Arranger and cc11 combinations -- juggling all these variables can try one's patience, but the flexibility to cover a huge range of expressiveness is there now, in a way that a few years ago would have been impossible.

And one can always resort to the simpler patches -- in either library -- if one is in too much of a hurry to fiddle about with speed of legato or divisi combinations.

I already had strings on a separate computer, before even LASS emerged. Given the deadlines in TV and film, I don't see how anyone can, with a single computer, get expressive results from these libraries along with the rest of the orchestra AND the sequencing software AND plugins AND recording splits with separate reverbs. HS or no HS, this seems like too much to me.

PLAY works great for me. Kontakt also works great, so do MachFive and Gigastudio. Composing virtually is soooo much better than 10-15 years ago that sometimes I am bewildered by the level of vitriol.

Hats off to Cinebrass, hats off to EW. I'm very grateful that we have all these tools available.

And glad to have Nick back too.


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## Pedro Camacho (Jun 17, 2011)

Simon Ravn @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> I didn't know that strings in Williams' scores were different from other composers' - stupid me, I thought it was his compositions and orchestrations that made his style.



Same thoughts as I had 


Regarding Sample Libraries, as any talented mockuper will say, you need to work with the library to get a realistic output.


Regarding Williams style (and most non commercial composers), he actually uses strings as rhythmical/melodic elements. This gives a special need in terms of attack on each note. LASS is very expressive and lacks a bit of attack.

LASS could have a keyswitch do use Velocity to control attack sound (not the portamento/gliss/normal) and blend a legato'ed staccato sound with the very short legato.

If you want the real thing get this library (actual short articulations in similar williams style)

http://www.orchestraltools.com/

*Majestic Runs* by Hendrik Schwarzer 
[mp3]http://www.orchestraltools.com/audio/osr/osr_majestic-runs.mp3[/mp3]


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## midphase (Jun 17, 2011)

Orchestral String Runs is cool...but for what is essentially an "add-on" type of library, I think $400 is a bit too steep IMHO (much like Symphobia 2 in comparison).


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## midphase (Jun 17, 2011)

rpaillot @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> the tone of the LASS strings are imo not good, even for "non-williams" strings It doesnt sound like what a string section should sound in real life.



Have you ever heard a string section in real life?



rpaillot @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> ...Maybe my ear sucks.



Bingo!


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## lux (Jun 17, 2011)

ok, back to the good ol times


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## José Herring (Jun 17, 2011)

Thomas_J @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Have you not seen Bring it On - In It To Win It?!?!?!
> 
> If it wasn't for some of the thin skinned people that populate this forum there would be no endless threads about what John Smith and his dog think about other people's "outrageous, highly immoral, bad taste, lack of class and improper behavior". What happened to being a MAN? Some good old fashioned pumping testosterone and war mongering?! What a bunch of pussies some of you are!! Lol! Just the other day I read an article about a poor guy who got thrown off a plane for saying "What the f#@k is taking so long?!?". To my great surprise (and much in character with this place) the comments random people were leaving were in FAVOR of the airline's decision! How depressing is that..
> 
> ...



Classic!


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## Ashermusic (Jun 17, 2011)

midphase @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> rpaillot @ Fri Jun 17 said:
> 
> 
> > the tone of the LASS strings are imo not good, even for "non-williams" strings It doesnt sound like what a string section should sound in real life.
> ...



"Should" is not a good word choice because that is where it gets subjective. Clearly LASS, like all good strings sample libraries, sounds as some real string sections sound like in real life. Whether it is a sound one cares for (or "should" sound like) is entirely a subjective thing.

Back when I was young people used to debate which string section sounded better, Philadelphia, Chicago or Boston Symphony orchestras and the debates got very intense


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## dcoscina (Jun 17, 2011)

Thomas_J @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> SvK, thanks for your flattering comments on HS! I had a feeling early on that you'd appreciate the level of detail it offers, and make it sing. And you did.



Thomas, since this thread is about EW and HS I think it's safe to chime in.

1. Been an EW fan and customer since 2004. Own a lot of the libs, including HS thanks in part to Doug Rogers (won't elaborate). 
2. Still use EWQLSO Gold for projects on my laptop as it has a relatively low footprint and sounds great out of the box (no messy external reverb needed).
3. Love the sound of SPACES and plan to get HB Gold as a HS owner, nice deal BTW.
4. Admire your compositional skills and mock up skills. Particularly like when you channel maestro Williams 

Now I'm not sure you would lump me in with the needle point group but I still stick with what I said about using the CineBrass thread to make contrasts with HB. From everything I have read on this forum, no one hates EW. They may find PLAY wanting in some areas but I have never read that the EW sound stinks (which it most certainly does NOT). So I'm not sure where some of what I deem as insecurity is coming from.

Anyhow, really looking forward to PLAY3 and HB. Like John G says, it's a great time to be composing since the bar is set so high, and to give EW its due, this is largely due to efforts of Doug, Nick, and you. But you do realize you guys are considered the juggernaut of the sample industry and as such, more people will level both accolades and criticisms alike. It's a double edged sword. 

David

p.s. you look like a tough guy- if you're ever in Toronto, drop by the dojo I train in and we'll spar. I don't often get a chance to go full tilt on someone (my sparring partners are wussies and apparently I scare them). afterwards, I'll buy you a beer (your choice of brand) and you can divulge all your cool compositional tricks. he he


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## dannthr (Jun 17, 2011)

Thomas_J @ Thu Jun 16 said:


> Have you not seen Bring it On - In It To Win It?!?!?!
> 
> If it wasn't for some of the thin skinned people that populate this forum there would be no endless threads about what John Smith and his dog think about other people's "outrageous, highly immoral, bad taste, lack of class and improper behavior". What happened to being a MAN? Some good old fashioned pumping testosterone and war mongering?! What a bunch of pussies some of you are!! Lol! Just the other day I read an article about a poor guy who got thrown off a plane for saying "What the f#@k is taking so long?!?". To my great surprise (and much in character with this place) the comments random people were leaving were in FAVOR of the airline's decision! How depressing is that..
> 
> ...



Isn't that the Cheerleader movie where the two competing Cheer Captains learn to overcome their differences in the end and finally realize it's all about how you play the game?


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## NYC Composer (Jun 17, 2011)

Thomas_J @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> Have you not seen Bring it On - In It To Win It?!?!?!
> 
> If it wasn't for some of the thin skinned people that populate this forum there would be no endless threads about what John Smith and his dog think about other people's "outrageous, highly immoral, bad taste, lack of class and improper behavior". What happened to being a MAN? Some good old fashioned pumping testosterone and war mongering?! What a bunch of pussies some of you are!! Lol! Just the other day I read an article about a poor guy who got thrown off a plane for saying "What the f#@k is taking so long?!?". To my great surprise (and much in character with this place) the comments random people were leaving were in FAVOR of the airline's decision! How depressing is that..
> 
> ...



I see no one is going to say it, so I will. (Maybe no one else thinks it, but that I doubt.)

If civility equals membership in a "knitting club", call me a charter member. On the other hand, if you ever said such a thing to my face, I would give you every possible chance to explain yourself, then attempt to pound your face into dust (shrug).

It constantly surprises me how extraordinarily talented people are not necessarily pleasant or balanced. As you say, you're a competitive person, and your natural competitive nature has obviously taken you to great heights. It's a little sad that it hasn't taught you some restraint in the arena of the typed word.

The usual caveats-I am a long time EW customer. I greatly respect the work. I plan to continue being a customer, though you guys definitely make it harder with your arrogance, over-sensitivity and lack of responsibility taking. Talk about being thin-skinned-you'd never have responded in the manner you did if you weren't!
Nor would Nick have flounced off this forum numerous times. I guess it goes around, eh?

Just as others have said here, I'm very happy to have EW's presence here, however if you're going to put up what i think are obnoxious posts and they're allowed to stand, I'll comment on them directly. Happy motoring.


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## MikeH (Jun 17, 2011)

I'm all for everyone having their own point of views, etc and I relish an intense, healthy debate. But using personal attacks against the perceived masculinity of others and calling them "pussies" and "wussies" for having differing opinions... I'm sorry, but did it really have to descend into that?


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## Andrew Christie (Jun 17, 2011)

Thomas_J @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> Anyway, I'm having a blast with this by the way!! This is just a good old fashioned challenge and like it or not, I enjoy that stuff. It makes me work harder. I'm pretty sure cinesamples are hellbent now more than ever on developing an even better product, which benefits everyone.



I think this comment alone sums up the attitude we should all have. Underneath all our egos and sensitivities as creative people, the moment we take ourselves too seriously we're all doomed lol!

Have a laugh guys, it's all good :D


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## Patrick de Caumette (Jun 17, 2011)

NYC Composer @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> Thomas_J @ Fri Jun 17 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you not seen Bring it On - In It To Win It?!?!?!
> ...



+1

I think all the praise may have affected your humility Thomas. 
Hopefully, down the road you'll find your way back.
It is a long road...


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## rgames (Jun 17, 2011)

I've learned a lot by following this thread... this is not what I would expect from such a small community.

rgames


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## midphase (Jun 17, 2011)

Andrew Christie @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> I think this comment alone sums up the attitude we should all have. Underneath all our egos and sensitivities as creative people, the moment we take ourselves too seriously we're all doomed lol!



I dunno Andrew...sample libraries are pricey, and before spending that much cash you want to feel like the people you're giving it to are treating you with respect and professional courtesy (remember "the customer is always right"?)


For instance, when I purchased my car, the way I was treated by the dealer greatly influenced whether or not I gave him my money...beyond how great the product itself might be. A lot of my colleagues that I converse with in person have some serious reservations about giving EW their business, even if the demos sound great...part of this is due to their negative experiences with PLAY, but part of it is due to a perception that EW's business persona is not the type that they want to reward.

I met Nick a couple of times (at LANS dinners), and TJ as well...and I think in person they come across as cool guys, but I can see how online something else happens and that easy going personality doesn't quite come across. By contrast, I met Eric Persing in person and I feel that his positive vibe definitely comes across online as well...and it seems like any issue that people bring up about his products he takes very seriously right away.

I've given EW (and Soundsonline which I assume are the same company) my business in the past and I will continue to do so. I'm holding off purchasing a brass library until I hear HB and most importantly get some feedback on how well PLAY 3 behaves.

My advice to Nick and TJ (not that they're asking) would be to stay put and let the product speak for itself...I think that in a month or so if PLAY 3 delivers on what it promises, and if HB is solid and well programmed, they will receive plenty of praise and money for their hard work which is ultimately what really matters.


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## Andrew Christie (Jun 17, 2011)

midphase @ Sat Jun 18 said:


> Andrew Christie @ Fri Jun 17 said:
> 
> 
> > I think this comment alone sums up the attitude we should all have. Underneath all our egos and sensitivities as creative people, the moment we take ourselves too seriously we're all doomed lol!
> ...



Very good points, and I definitely agree. I suppose I'm responding to the many heated discussions where more often than not people seem to jump on the defensive, and especially in situations like these, unit I've met someone I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt  

I do think people get very reactionary on forums, I think you'll find the more things that are taken with a grain of salt there's a lot less heart ache :wink: 

I've nearly written so many comments on this forum and usually just as I'm about to hit 'submit' I just go meh, pointless statement lol.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 18, 2011)

rgames @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> I've learned a lot by following this thread... this is not what I would expect from such a small community.
> 
> rgames



I'm amazed and saddened, but in my view it's just cycles and phases. This is a good place and I trust it will remain so. In my somewhat (apparently) isolated point of view, it would be an even better one if people spoke up when they viewed things as dumb and rude.

I'm not an "America, right or wrong, love it or leave it" sorta dude. I think there are things worth fighting for, and the price of good things is often vigilance- and occasionally having the balls to speak up when the Emperor walks around nude.

BTW-I'm looking forward to the release of Hollywood Brass!


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## dcoscina (Jun 18, 2011)

rgames @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> I've learned a lot by following this thread... this is not what I would expect from such a small community.
> 
> rgames



My guess is that the internet allows anyone and everyone to push their Ego and SuperEgo to the back of the car and let their ID do most of the driving. There are no immediate ramifications to saying something nasty to someone else. And I'm just as guilty at times as some others here so I'm saying this as much to myself as anyone else.

Perhaps this constitutes striving to be more civil or perhaps it just lands me up in the "needle point club". Either way, it's better to treat others the way we ourselves would like to be treated.


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## MichaelL (Jun 19, 2011)

Thomas_J @ Fri Jun 17 said:


> What happened to being a MAN? Some good old fashioned pumping testosterone and war mongering?! What a bunch of pussies some of you are!! Lol! J




Cringe....awkward and unfortunate. 


FYI. I'll inject the same caveat as NYC. I own most EW products. They're great and I've never had a problem with PLAY. So, no ax to grind. I'm not a shill for the enemy AND I don't own any knitting needles.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 19, 2011)

I felt that EW needed to comment on what Thomas wrote, so here goes:

"What Thomas has written in this thread reflects his own personal views as a developer who works with, not for, EastWest on some projects; much the same as many other talented individuals work with, not for, EastWest, and should not be construed to be EastWest's views as a company."


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## MichaelL (Jun 19, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> I felt that EW needed to comment on what Thomas wrote, so here goes:
> 
> ?What Thomas has written in this thread reflects his own personal views as a developer who works with, not for, EastWest on some projects; much the same as many other talented individuals work with, not for, EastWest, and should not be construed to be EastWest's views as a company."




Thanks Jay. You and I are of a relatively similar vintage (and years of experience).

I was beginning to think that going "Charlie Sheen" was the new norm for LA.


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## lux (Jun 19, 2011)

i could be wrong, due to my limited understanding of the language, but my impression of Thomas' post was more or less like a "lets take it easy" sort of thing and an invite to feel free again to "fight" what, at the end of the day, and despite there is some money involved, is just a game for musicians, and not a dispute about the destiny of the world.

But, as said, maybe i read it the wrong way.


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 19, 2011)

OK, I might get my head bitten off for this, but here goes....

I spent yesterday evening in the company of many other UK-based composers at a London gathering, and a thoroughly good time was had by all it seemed. The vast majority used VIs, and of course there was much discussion on sample libraries. Two comments kept coming up again and again:

1 - EW stuff sounds sensational

2 - Play is not in a good place.

I'm being a little discreet about number 2... this was often expressed in rather blunter terms.

There is nothing that surprising about this conclusion perhaps - it is stated here on VI-C frequently. But it was interesting meeting so many different (and, I have to say, friendly) composers representing all sorts of corners of the industry and not all internet forum members, and these comments were almost universal. Some had HS and had, effectively, given up while others were major users... even in this case, they wanted improvements to Play though.

Now I know Play 3 is coming (I'm on the beta team), but I felt it was important to feed this back. The gulf in terms of user-experience between Play and Kontakt is enormous... if EW are doing as well financially as it seems from the outside I'd love to see them really grab the bull by the horns and quickly push beyond Play 3 into making some really big changes like lossless compression, background loading, basic customization etc - no secret these aren't in Play 3. Bring the product into the right decade. In my view it would be a mistake to roll all these features into Play Pro - that future product should be for full editing, not for playback issues.

There is no conspiracy, no communal axe to grind. Some of the composers I talked to don't frequent any forums at all, quietly getting on with it in the field yet their experience was exactly the same. Everyone loves the sounds, but people don't love the player. With Play now 5 years old, she's no longer a toddler, and I sense the community at large is looking to EW to make some big strides, not baby steps any more. A big "WE HEAR YOU" (as opposed to "you're all wrong") on this would be like manna from heaven for an awful lot of composers out there!

EDIT - if anyone else who was at Composium feels I've in any way misrepresented opinions there (I didn't manage to talk to everyone there!) then please do chip in.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 19, 2011)

MichaelL @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jun 19 said:
> 
> 
> > I felt that EW needed to comment on what Thomas wrote, so here goes:
> ...



In point of fact, Thomas is from Norway. :lol:


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## manyfingers (Jun 19, 2011)

say it as it is...it's far more endearing and..dare i say it..more human. i for one appreciate the highs/lows of developers as their products add to my palette.. i'd like to think that these people provide a service which, if ignored, would make my life a lot harder. unfortunately/fortunately i haven't got time to expand on this... watching from the sidelines is hilarious...i understand the concept of providing/accepting feedback as an art and following this thread is disgustingly satisfying in that most commentators are better at making music than articulating points of view...as some developers are totally inept of dealing with (perhaps unarticulated) constructive criticism...

keep it up...it inspires me!


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## José Herring (Jun 19, 2011)

I found nothing offensive in what TJ posted. I thought it was funny. It was clear to me that he was just doing kind of a locker room type ribbing.


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## MichaelL (Jun 19, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> In point of fact, Thomas is from Norway. :lol:




I know, but lives in LA now --no?


@Jose. They have locker rooms at Juilliard? :lol:


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## Stephen Baysted (Jun 19, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> OK, I might get my head bitten off for this, but here goes....
> 
> I spent yesterday evening in the company of many other UK-based composers at a London gathering, and a thoroughly good time was had by all it seemed. The vast majority used VIs, and of course there was much discussion on sample libraries. Two comments kept coming up again and again:
> 
> ...




I pre-ordered HS diamond, and have lived with it for almost a year now. So the bottom line for me is IF - and right now it is one gargantuan IF - IF PLAY 3 makes the powerful system patches (the ones that we bought the library for in the first place) in HS *vaguely* useable in *real time *and at* properly* low latencies (c. 3 - 5ms), then HB becomes purchasable. If not, then existing libraries cover the bases more than amply and I'll save my cash and be spared the headaches.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 19, 2011)

josejherring @ 19/6/2011 said:


> I found nothing offensive in what TJ posted. I thought it was funny. It was clear to me that he was just doing kind of a locker room type ribbing.



+1


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## Peter Alexander (Jun 19, 2011)

The Better Mouse Trap

From my blog, 2AM
http://www.professionalorchestration.co ... ouse-trap/


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## Ashermusic (Jun 19, 2011)

MichaelL @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jun 19 said:
> 
> 
> > In point of fact, Thomas is from Norway. :lol:
> ...



Yes, but once a Norewigian, always a Norweigian


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## Mike Greene (Jun 19, 2011)

josejherring @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> I found nothing offensive in what TJ posted. I thought it was funny. It was clear to me that he was just doing kind of a locker room type ribbing.


I thought so, too.


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## Audun Jemtland (Jun 19, 2011)

Ashermusic @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> MichaelL @ Sun Jun 19 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ Sun Jun 19 said:
> ...


Norwegian... :D


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## dannthr (Jun 19, 2011)

I'm really concerned with what TJ said, frankly, I just don't think that "Bring it On: In It to Win It" has any place on this forum!

I find it jocular and polarizing.

I mean, I can get behind the first one, it was cute but still brought a bit of class to the situation with Kirstin Dunst.

But the myriad of sequels is just OUT OF CONTROL, PEOPLE--OUT OF CONTROL!

Seriously, who is sustaining this franchise? Seriously?


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## Lex (Jun 19, 2011)

Wow....how do you all find time for all this crap?

alex


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## germancomponist (Jun 19, 2011)

Lex @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> Wow....how do you all find time for all this crap?
> 
> alex



+1

But, he said that he said, that he meant, that he meant, that he wrote... .

I think it is very interesting to read, what "they" say after the first HB demo. o-[][]-o

And about loading times: Many people spent very much time and money to catch the best sound in a best studio. , only to record one player. When I know that I can get best sounding instruments in a library, I would have no problem even when a slave system/computer would need one hour to load all the stuff. Once loaded, all is fine for the day when I compose.... . 
Ok, when someone needs only one or two articulations to do his job, then it would be great to have very short loading times.... .


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## wqaxsz (Jun 19, 2011)

Lex @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> Wow....how do you all find time for all this crap?
> 
> alex



I don't know, maybe while their BHolywood strings patches are loading.

ok i :arrow:


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## Pochflyboy (Jun 19, 2011)

dannthr @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> I'm really concerned with what TJ said, frankly, I just don't think that "Bring it On: In It to Win It" has any place on this forum!
> 
> I find it jocular and polarizing.
> 
> ...




LMAO

-Joe


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## Andrew Christie (Jun 19, 2011)

lux @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> i could be wrong, due to my limited understanding of the language, but my impression of Thomas' post was more or less like a "lets take it easy" sort of thing and an invite to feel free again to "fight" what, at the end of the day, and despite there is some money involved, is just a game for musicians, and not a dispute about the destiny of the world.



Exactly what I thought



josejherring @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> I found nothing offensive in what TJ posted. I thought it was funny. It was clear to me that he was just doing kind of a locker room type ribbing.



Again, exactly what I thought! 

The way TJ expressed himself is kinda like how me and my mates banter when we're at the pub...maybe 'cause I'm an Aussie I tend to look at things from that point of view lol.


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## Dave Connor (Jun 19, 2011)

Anyone that his been around v.i. for a certain length of time and has witnessed TJ's posts must know that he is an extraordinarily civil fellow and really never responds in a personal way to jabs and barbs directed towards EW's products. He always responds very positively and business like, basically with technical information regarding this thing or that, and in a helpful way.

I'm not going to take the guy to task if on a single occasion he gets pissed off or goes after some people. Why does he have to be perfect amongst all the flawed people around here? - myself included of course. Everybody knows the shrill angry tone some people have a lot of the time and most of have some of the time. He's not in either club if you think about it.

I just want to hear what they've come up with over there in this new Brass collection. All other issues technical and personal issues are well known so everyone can make their own call and act accordingly. Bring on the Brass!


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## NYC Composer (Jun 19, 2011)

Everyone likes a good dustup once in a while. Cleans out the arteries.
Well, not everyone I suppose, but-what can you do about the pussies. (shrug)

I sure am interested in hearing HB! Bring it on, indeed!


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## tripit (Jun 19, 2011)

Hi Nick,
Thanks for the input. Your libraries have always sounded great - that's pretty much unanimous, but as you have correctly mentioned, Play itself is probably responsible for 95% of your woes in these parts. It has constantly left a lot to be desired in it's first five years. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what you've done with Play 3 (also good idea to release it first). I would be hoping to see GUI re-design allowing a more flexible and easier multi layout and use, CC assign, control reads etc. but, I know that's not the case, so I'm taking this moment to encourage you to keep developing Play so it becomes as flexible and powerful on the user end as it should be. Please don't make us wait another five years or until Play 6 to address this stuff. It should be the number one priority for EW to get Play sorted once and for all. 

Good luck with HB, I'm sure it will sound great.


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## tripit (Jun 19, 2011)

Andrew Christie @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> lux @ Mon Jun 20 said:
> 
> 
> > i could be wrong, due to my limited understanding of the language, but my impression of Thomas' post was more or less like a "lets take it easy" sort of thing and an invite to feel free again to "fight" what, at the end of the day, and despite there is some money involved, is just a game for musicians, and not a dispute about the destiny of the world.
> ...



Exactly. TJ was trying to be funny, lighten things up.

Norwegian humor can seem left field to non Norwegians. I've had plenty of huh??? moments with my family (and I'm 100% Norwegian) 

Besides, I've found same situations with plenty of fluent english speaking people I've worked with from other countries. Sometimes, what passes for humor for them doesn't cross the culture or language boundaries. 

Besides, ever see famous comedians coming from Norway? No, I didn't think so.


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## Udo (Jun 20, 2011)

*Completely OT*

Completely OT.


tripit @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> .... Besides, ever see famous comedians coming from Norway?


Norwegian comedians? I know a few  (I don't speak the language, so I don't have a clear favourite, but I know that several are now deceased :( ).

Hauk Aabel
Per Aabel
Zahid Ali
Jon Almaas
Atle Antonsen
Øystein Bache
Sturla Berg-Johansen
Mari Bjørgan
Espen Eckbo
Harald Eia
Åsleik Engmark
Herodes Falsk
Dag Frøland
Thomas Giertsen
Lasse Gjertsen
Johan Golden
Anne-Kat. Hærland
Hans Morten Hansen
Gunnar Haugan
Egil Hegerberg
Halfdan Hegtun
Harald Heide-Steen Jr.
Espen Beranek Holm
Otto Jespersen (comedian)
Bård Tufte Johansen
Leif Juster
Are Kalvø
Trond Kirkvaag
Knut Lystad
Tom Mathisen
Lars Mjøen
Knut Nærum
Arvid Nilssen
Torolf Nordbø
Arve Opsahl
Raske Menn
Shabana Rehman Gaarder
Janne Rønningen
Einar Rose
Kristopher Schau
Linn Skåber
Jon Skolmen
Robert Stoltenberg
Jørgen Strickert
Lisa Tønne
Per Inge Torkelsen
Kristian Valen
Rolv Wesenlund
Ylvis


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## doubleattack (Jun 20, 2011)

Udo @ Mon 20 Jun said:


> tripit @ Mon Jun 20 said:
> 
> 
> > .... Besides, ever see famous comedians coming from Norway?
> ...



:lol:


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah, um...

I suspect this thread has become rather what Nick and TJ were accusing VI control of. Again (sorry if I'm a stuck record on this point) but this in the commercial announcements section... is it just me or is it not a good form to actually discuss the product? TJ's post was a little surprising, I wasn't at all offended but it's request for more tell-it-like-it-is did seem ironic given EW's history here... worthy of a mention but let's all move on, eh? Norweigen comedy would I'm sure make a fascinating Off Topic thread.....

Partly in an attempt to get the debate going again, I made a post yesterday which reflected on how widespread and deep was the disappointment with Play across the UK's composer community. I know Nick acknowledges this to some extent, but after this weekend's conversations I'm more inclined to regard Play 3 as not really sufficient to address this. Obviously I can't yet address how Play 3 performs publicly, but even if it meets all expectations, issues like background loading, basic customisation etc are big deals for people. Some, like Gunther, have successfully found workflows that work for them and find it's a price worth paying. Others haven't yet found this.

I appreciate that this is a debate that will really only perhaps kick off when Play 3 is released - for now I'm just saying just on the basis of publicly known information "Guys, Play 3 can't possibly meet the need that's out there", and this is something that needs acknowledging then addressing. And I know "throw money at the problem" isn't always the best solution... but in the case of IT development, perhaps it is! 

Also, on the specific subject of HB, given the new delays on releasing even a video walkthrough demo for HB (as I understanding it getting the legatos right on one patch) and knowing the size and complexity of this product, is July 10 a little optimistic at this point?

EDIT - just realised after posting why I feel the need to draw attention to this so much. Some time ago on Soundsonline, Doug posted that the next update to Play would be the last free upgrade (sorry don't have a reference for this right now), and after this it would be a paid update. I think maybe they've had a rethink on this... I sure hope so. If Play 3 is the last free update, imho it would have very negative implications for the business.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 20, 2011)

So they are going to start charging EXTRA for a sample player that is needed for their products? That sounds... interesting to say the least.

I can understand that they would charge for Play Pro, since this is more like Kontaktplayer vs. Kontakt. But I think it sounds questionable to charge for a player that is needed for your product. Although I could be mistaken of course, and PLAY 4, 5, 6 etc. will come free with new products - you just have to pay for it if you want to use it for your older products without buying new ones.


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## stevenson-again (Jun 20, 2011)

> So they are going to start charging EXTRA for a sample player that is needed for their products? That sounds... interesting to say the least.



Well who among us wouldn't pay more to get a player that worked at least as well as kontakt 3? - i'd settle for just kontakt 3 standard. considering that if i wanted to use HS seriously in anger i would need to invest in a whole other computer - which i would do if i had confidence that a) PLAY worked well (actually i think it would) and b) i could customize it to fit into my workflow (i know that it can't - not without serious faffing).

Seriously, for the end to what has to be admitted as at least a *bit* of a headache, I would gladly part with more money. Another £100 on top of HS? £200? Yeah I think I would go as much as that maybe more. Who wouldn't? I mean, if EW stuff was lousy no one would bother of course, but we know it's not.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 20, 2011)

I wish we could just get beyond the testicular politics and general assholia, and get on with the business of taking money I can't afford directly out of my pocket and directing it into the East West coffers for products that are too friggin' cool for me to resist. After all, why should I stop at a mere 7 EW libraries (not counting various upgrades)?

Demos, anyone?


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## dedersen (Jun 20, 2011)

The whole PLAY issue is a bit depressing, really. If this was a Kontakt release, I am almost sure it'd be an automatic purchase to go along with that certain other brass library. But the fact that I cannot configure PLAY to match my existing workflow in terms of keyswitches, CC, etc. is really a major issue. I've actually not had that many problems related to stability of the PLAY engine (I'm on Windows), it's more the functionality (or lack thereof) that I take issue with. I am still a bit puzzled that we cannot configure our own keyswitches; I would imagine that this would be a relatively simple thing to implement, since keyswitch patches are already available, just not editable.

EDIT: Oh, yeah. And bring on the demos! o=<


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## Dan Mott (Jun 20, 2011)

Great to see you here, Nick Phoenix.


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## MichaelL (Jun 20, 2011)

audun jemtland @ Sun Jun 19 said:


> Ashermusic @ Sun Jun 19 said:
> 
> 
> > MichaelL @ Sun Jun 19 said:
> ...




My misunderstanding.. I was out the day they taught Nordic humor in college.

And, as I said, showing my age..totally missed the, uh, "cultural" reference 
to "Bring it on, In it to win it."


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 20, 2011)

Simon Ravn @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> So they are going to start charging EXTRA for a sample player that is needed for their products? That sounds... interesting to say the least.
> 
> I can understand that they would charge for Play Pro, since this is more like Kontaktplayer vs. Kontakt. But I think it sounds questionable to charge for a player that is needed for your product. Although I could be mistaken of course, and PLAY 4, 5, 6 etc. will come free with new products - you just have to pay for it if you want to use it for your older products without buying new ones.



From Doug:

"The upgrades of the Play player for our libraries will continue to be free. However, if we add optional additions to the player in the future, there may be a small charge for those, but there will always be a free option. When our fully featured Play Pro sampler is released, it will be a paid upgrade."


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## alligatorlizard (Jun 20, 2011)

Love TJ's post on here! Very refreshing. He's dead right about oversensitivity, it's incredible how much of so many posts on here (and, well, on many forums really, I guess it's an internet thing) are comprised of people trying to take a moral high ground then subtly sticking the knife in themselves. Face to face, these lengthy tedious exchanges would never take place - though I guess there might be the odd black eye...

That airline story is indeed depressing - what happened to solidarity against "the man", a bit of good old fashioned punk ethic? 

Anyway, as for the brass library, I can't wait either. I'm still finding HS a bit of a b*tch to work with to be honest (my system runs it - and PLAY actually - just fine, it's purely the programming that I find problematic) but it's still the best sounding string library out there, and I have faith it will be improved in time. 

One general request for HB: _consistentcy_. I don't think anyone's in doubt it will sound awesome - just please ensure everything blends with everything else, volume levels/curves are uniform across the library and within patches etc etc. Programming stuff really. Oh, and could the legato transitions be a bit less behind the beat than on some of the HS patches... Thanks!!


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## Ashermusic (Jun 20, 2011)

I still maintain that a forum can be civil without being dull. And I never write anything I would not say to the person's face.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 20, 2011)

EastWest, thanks - sounds OK


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## MichaelL (Jun 20, 2011)

alligatorlizard @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> L
> That airline story is indeed depressing - what happened to solidarity against "the man", a bit of good old fashioned punk ethic?




Couldn't get my hair to do the mohawk spike thing. =o


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## dedersen (Jun 20, 2011)

EastWest Lurker @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Mon Jun 20 said:
> 
> 
> > So they are going to start charging EXTRA for a sample player that is needed for their products? That sounds... interesting to say the least.
> ...



Maybe I am reading it wrong, but this sort of quote worries me a bit. If optional extras constitute such things as editing keyswitches and cc assignments, I would find it very difficult not to feel ripped off by having to pay for it. Of course, I have no idea if that will be the case, I am just a bit conserned that it might be.


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## José Herring (Jun 20, 2011)

Ashermusic @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> I still maintain that a forum can be civil without being dull. And I never write anything I would not say to the person's face.



I have a feeling that TJ would say what he said to somebody's face, but with a big smile. I don't know if EW is officially concerned about what he said, but in all honesty I have a hard time believing that he was being all too serious.


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## SvK (Jun 20, 2011)

In the words of the "The Penetrator" I mean "Terminator"

Stop being Girrrrllliee Men!

_


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 20, 2011)

Good news indeed on the Doug quote. Personally I think these should be part of Play Free to be really in the ballpark:

Lossless compression
Background loading
Custom keyswitching
CC mapping

...and of course great performance. Full editing should be Play Pro.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 20, 2011)

This made me put down my knitting to post (I'm working on a fluffy penis warmer):



> our best work to date is coming in less than a month



Isn't that the bottom line?


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 20, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> Lossless compression
> Background loading
> Custom keyswitching
> CC mapping



To that list I'd also add the ability to keep samples in memory when switching instruments or sessions (and then unload unused ones).


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 20, 2011)

So was CB really recorded in one day (or two as claimed elsewhere)?


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## Ashermusic (Jun 20, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> So was CB really recorded in one day (or two as claimed elsewhere)?



If you like it a lot and it is so, will you like it less?

If you do not like it much and it is not so, will you like it more?


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## Mike Connelly (Jun 20, 2011)

No. The statement was made, I'm just curious if it's true.


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## rpaillot (Jun 20, 2011)

Mike Connelly @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> No. The statement was made, I'm just curious if it's true.



I think this statement is right. I realize more and more the limitation of Cinebrass while i'm using it. I mean, there are only a few of articulations. Yet the articulations are all very well-sampled and the tone of the brass is spot-on. Thats what makes Cinebrass so good. 

I'm expecting HB to be as good as cinebrass in term of sound and tone. But with 100X the amount of articulations.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 20, 2011)

SvK @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> In the words of the "The Penetrator" I mean "Terminator"
> 
> Stop being Girrrrllliee Men!
> 
> _



Please stop yelling. Your manly bluster has blown my skirt up around my head.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 20, 2011)

alligatorlizard @ Mon Jun 20 said:


> Love TJ's post on here! Very refreshing. He's dead right about oversensitivity, it's incredible how much of so many posts on here (and, well, on many forums really, I guess it's an internet thing) are comprised of people trying to take a moral high ground then subtly sticking the knife in themselves. Face to face, these lengthy tedious exchanges would never take place - though I guess there might be the odd black eye...
> 
> That airline story is indeed depressing - what happened to solidarity against "the man", a bit of good old fashioned punk ethic?
> 
> ...



You're right- and really far too few posts about girlymen and pussies and beer. I, for one, will commit myself to changing that from here on.


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 20, 2011)

I assumed Thomas' post was humorous. I think the Cheerleading reference was a clue. 

Yes, Cinebrass was recorded in one day. Really well done for one day. Hats off.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 20, 2011)

Hats off to you too, Nick. We're all expecting wonderfulness from HB.


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## dedersen (Jun 21, 2011)

Just wanna chime in and say that it's really nice to see you posting here again, Nick.

I for one probably overreacted a bit to Thomas' original posts in the Cinebrass thread, I just found them a bit out of place in a commercial announcement. It's the curse of internet forums really, not being able to tell by facial expressions whether something is ment as a joke or not. Nice that Thomas was a bit more obvious this time around. 

Anyway, I hope Nick will make posting here more regular again. First things first though....make those demos!


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## jamwerks (Jun 21, 2011)

I’m wondering about running HS and HB (Play 3, 64 bit) both on the same PC slave (X970, 24 mb ram). Would one machine like that be enough to use the two in an "advanced way"?


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## dedersen (Jun 21, 2011)

Yeah, I would also be really interesting in the system requirements for Hollywood Brass, seeing how this was one of the main disadvantages of Hollywood Strings. With Cinebrass out there, I would be hard pressed to accept that I'd need to invest in a slave to run my new brass library. Any information on what to expect in terms of system requirements would be really appreciated.


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## MichaelL (Jun 21, 2011)

So...without rereading 4 pages of this thread...

has the iLok issue been resolved, allowing PLAY 64 bit to work on a MAC?


Jay...Nick ..anyone?


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## noiseboyuk (Jun 21, 2011)

MichaelL @ Tue Jun 21 said:


> So...without rereading 4 pages of this thread...
> 
> has the iLok issue been resolved, allowing PLAY 64 bit to work on a MAC?
> 
> ...



Yes.


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## MichaelL (Jun 21, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Tue Jun 21 said:


> MichaelL @ Tue Jun 21 said:
> 
> 
> > So...without rereading 4 pages of this thread...
> ...



Thanks Guy. It's been a long few weeks here. I'm in a bit of a fog. One more fuzzy question. So my old dual core 2 x 2.66 MAC Pro w/ 16 GB RAM, that is currently sitting unused, could be a good slave unit on which HB can reside?

Thanks,

Michael


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## Nick Phoenix (Jun 21, 2011)

Yes PLAY is now 64 bit on the mac. Or will be when we release 3 in a week or so. we have completed the Hollywood Strings update which will release with 3.0 PLAY.

Hollywood Brass is less resource hungry than Hollywood Strings. And 64 bit PAY 3.0 will help out a lot.

Still with the different size sections, you can still use a fair bit of memory. Or you can use just the basics along the lines of what is in Cinexxxxx.I've been running a simple template like that for a couple months now on my main Logic 64 bit computer along with MOR 2 stuff and a piano. Zero problems except the stupid 32 bit bridge crashes once in a while because of my synth and UAD 32 bit plugs.


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## Udo (Jun 21, 2011)

Nick,

An EW 2 for 1 purchase I'm considering is dependant on whether I pre-order HB. Therefore I'll need to hear some substantial demos of HB before the 2 for 1 deal expires on June 30! Is that likely to happen (or, alternatively, will EW keep the 2 for 1 open until the HB demos appear)?

In other words, if I decide not to get HB (at this stage), I don't want to buy the 2 items in the 2 for 1 deal either.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 22, 2011)

Nick Phoenix @ Tue Jun 21 said:


> Yes PLAY is now 64 bit on the mac. Or will be when we release 3 in a week or so. we have completed the Hollywood Strings update which will release with 3.0 PLAY.
> 
> Hollywood Brass is less resource hungry than Hollywood Strings. And 64 bit PAY 3.0 will help out a lot.
> 
> Still with the different size sections, you can still use a fair bit of memory. Or you can use just the basics along the lines of what is in Cinexxxxx.I've been running a simple template like that for a couple months now on my main Logic 64 bit computer along with MOR 2 stuff and a piano. Zero problems except the stupid 32 bit bridge crashes once in a while because of my synth and UAD 32 bit plugs.



Oddly enough, I emailed UAD today to see if they were ever going 64 bit. I'm not holding my breath.


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## Udo (Jun 22, 2011)

NYC Composer @ Wed Jun 22 said:


> Oddly enough, I emailed UAD today to see if they were ever going 64 bit. I'm not holding my breath.


I don't think they're in a hurry. Official UAD response:

"Last Updated: 4/29/2011.
Currently the UAD plug-ins are all 32-bit format, so when they are used in 64-bit host applications they require the use of a 64-bit bridge adapter. These bridge adapters are usually supplied by the manufacturers of the 64-bit host application you are using. We are aware of our user's concerns and requests for full 64-bit plug-in support, however there is no specific scheduled release date for the feature at this time. Any changes or new announcements regarding full 64-bit plug-in support will be posted on the UA website."


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## MichaelL (Jun 22, 2011)

Nick Phoenix @ Tue Jun 21 said:


> Yes PLAY is now 64 bit on the mac. Or will be when we release 3 in a week or so. we have completed the Hollywood Strings update which will release with 3.0 PLAY.
> 
> Hollywood Brass is less resource hungry than Hollywood Strings. And 64 bit PAY 3.0 will help out a lot.
> 
> Still with the different size sections, you can still use a fair bit of memory. Or you can use just the basics along the lines of what is in Cinexxxxx.I've been running a simple template like that for a couple months now on my main Logic 64 bit computer along with MOR 2 stuff and a piano. Zero problems except the stupid 32 bit bridge crashes once in a while because of my synth and UAD 32 bit plugs.



Hi Nick,

Thanks for your response. I'm really pleased that PLAY 3 will be 64 bit on MAC. As I asked above, my main computer is a 12 Core MAC PRO w/24 GB RAM. I have a dual Core 2x2.66 w/16GB RAM sitting unused. I was wondering (hoping actually) if the dual core would be a good machine to host HB and possibly HS?

Thanks again,

Michael


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## jamwerks (Jun 22, 2011)

Hey Michael,

You can update that dual core to a quad core for just a few bucks, and turn it into a monster. http://www.waitingoutside.com/2010/02/upgrading-a-2006-apple-mac-pro-11-with-2-xeon-x5355-processors/


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## MichaelL (Jun 22, 2011)

jamwerks @ Wed Jun 22 said:


> Hey Michael,
> 
> You can update that dual core to a quad core for just a few bucks, and turn it into a monster. http://www.waitingoutside.com/2010/02/upgrading-a-2006-apple-mac-pro-11-with-2-xeon-x5355-processors/



Hey thanks jamwerks. That would be great! I sent the link over to my tech guy.

Maybe I'll have a renovated home for HB!

Thanks again,
Michael


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## Ashermusic (Jun 22, 2011)

jamwerks @ Wed Jun 22 said:


> Hey Michael,
> 
> You can update that dual core to a quad core for just a few bucks, and turn it into a monster. http://www.waitingoutside.com/2010/02/upgrading-a-2006-apple-mac-pro-11-with-2-xeon-x5355-processors/



What is your idea of "a few bucks" ?


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 22, 2011)

Hehe yeah I wouldnt call this solution "a few bucks". More like 600 bucks (at least) and the chance that you screw it up somewhere in the process if you don't know exactly what you're doing.


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## MichaelL (Jun 22, 2011)

My tech guy (I know better than to try this myself) said $1,200 including installation.

He said he could get me a used two quad-core 2.8GHz for $1400 with my old Mac Pro traded-in.


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## midphase (Jun 22, 2011)

2 Quad Core 3.0ghz Xeons X5355's go for around $700 on eBay. Paying almost twice that IMHO completely nullifies any benefits of doing this in the first place. 

There's a thread here which I would suggest moving the discussion to in order to not sidetrack this thread:

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20395


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