# Sonarworks - how to understand it correctly?



## AndreasHe (Aug 3, 2020)

Hi Folks,

first I have to tell you, I am trying Sonarworks Demo (for Headphones) and I understand that each headphone has it's own EQ shape. And yes, I used my headphones and boxes to mix and sometimes I wonder why it is so "wrong" e.g. in my car.

Ok, I got the idea; let's neutralize the specific headphone's EQ.

If I switch ON Sonarworks with my Beyerdynamic 990 250 Ohm, everything sounds "wrong" / "boring".

- What is now the correct way to mix? Shall it sound great again using EQs?
- But wouldn't it for example double the bass if my Headphone do this by nature if I increase it to sound good again?
- Is it normal at all, that everything sounds so "wrong" with sonarworks, even Spotify-Songs? Is it a good idea at all to listen to music with sonarworks ON or is it just a tool for mixing?
- What does it sound a bit mono? Without sonarworks, I hear more space/room.

So be honest, I simply like the sound of my Beyerdynamic 990 - but what is wrong listen to it purely? Aren't all headphones do a similar artificial "making it more fancy" thing? And doesn't that mean others would hear a similar sound?

It sounds like I have not the right understanding and YES that might be true. Please teach me the right view 






- Can you tell me where I can find the simulation of e.g. "cheap headphones" - isn't that feature somewhere? In "predefined target curves" are just 2 entries.


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## Rasoul Morteza (Aug 3, 2020)

See my comments below.


AndreasHe said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> first I have to tell you, I am trying Sonarworks Demo (for Headphones) and I understand that each headphone has it's own EQ shape. And yes, I used my headphones and boxes to mix and sometimes I wonder why it is so "wrong" e.g. in my car.
> 
> ...



There is a lot of information about this subject available online.

Cheers


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## fakemaxwell (Aug 3, 2020)

I'm of the opinion that the Sonarworks stuff is all hype. No matter the response of a new headphone, you need time to learn and acclimate your ears. Once you've "learned" a headphone, you can test out mixes on different playback devices and see if what you're hearing matches. If it does, great, if not, you know that "oh these cans are a bit hyped here" and you adjust.

All placing an EQ curve in front of headphones does is make you go through the process again. A response curve being flat does NOT mean it will translate better. And even if it was better! You already have to check it anyway!

Beyerdynamic 990s are just about at the level where you can just say "okay these are good," and get mixing. So my advice? Focus on mixing, you'll reap far more benefits with time spent there than worrying about if your headphones have an aftermarket EQ. Same goes for all gear, once you hit a certain level it all becomes preference anyway, so just find something you like and forget about everything else. YOU can decide you are having trouble hearing something with time and experience, don't let a marketing scheme do that for you.


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## rhizomusicosmos (Aug 3, 2020)

I use Sonarworks with DT880 Pro and "Edition" headphones and it better matches their tonality to the Genelec monitors I use. Definitely an improvement for me, but I tend to like (and trust) a flat anechoic response with smooth directivity.


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## Loïc D (Aug 4, 2020)

To me there are 2 uses for Sonarworks :
-Headphones where it’s supposed to flatten the sound. Like you, it flattened the character of my DT880 I love so much. Enjoying the sound is part of the inspiration, so I usually set it off (also to save CPU/memory
- Monitors where it’s supposed to correct acoustic issues. On this use, it shines, there’s a most welcome enhancement

So, I tend to switch it off when I write, and on in the final mixing stage.

My 2 (euro) cents


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 4, 2020)

fakemaxwell said:


> I'm of the opinion that the Sonarworks stuff is all hype. No matter the response of a new headphone, you need time to learn and acclimate your ears. Once you've "learned" a headphone, you can test out mixes on different playback devices and see if what you're hearing matches. If it does, great, if not, you know that "oh these cans are a bit hyped here" and you adjust.
> 
> All placing an EQ curve in front of headphones does is make you go through the process again. A response curve being flat does NOT mean it will translate better. And even if it was better! You already have to check it anyway!
> 
> Beyerdynamic 990s are just about at the level where you can just say "okay these are good," and get mixing. So my advice? Focus on mixing, you'll reap far more benefits with time spent there than worrying about if your headphones have an aftermarket EQ. Same goes for all gear, once you hit a certain level it all becomes preference anyway, so just find something you like and forget about everything else. YOU can decide you are having trouble hearing something with time and experience, don't let a marketing scheme do that for you.



Not hype at all -it works great. I've had it for a couple years now. It's best left on all the time. I have it dialed to about 65%. I only have headphones to mix on, and it's made it much faster to mix and master with fewer do-overs. It absolutely translates better. Honestly, I disagree with pretty much all of your points as my experience has been the opposite. 

Have you used it for a long period of time?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 4, 2020)

AndreasHe said:


> If I switch ON Sonarworks with my Beyerdynamic 990 250 Ohm, everything sounds "wrong" / "boring".



That exactly how I felt when I first tried it with my HD600's. The thing is, that's how they are supposed to sound when flattened (which seems kind of crazy....Sennheiser spent thousands tuning, and we come along and flatten them lol!). After you leave SW tuned on (both DAW and systemwide) for a few weeks, you'll go back and think everything sounds wrong/boring with it off!

There's no hype. I was VERY skeptical at first, but I took the plunge and also bought the studio monitor version. The results on my monitors was shocking. I recently mixed a large batch of cues, and went with what sounded good using SW (both monitors and headphones). For the first time in years, the mixes translated well on several sources, including my car.

If you try the monitor version, make sure you use the actual SW mic for the tuning. I tried with two comparable mic's and the results were quite different.


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## AndreasHe (Aug 4, 2020)

What do you think about the increasement issue. 

So what I mean in picutures:

First I flatten my headphone (concentrate your eyes on the section with the arrow)






Now I mix my music while Sonarworks is ON and come to the idea "it sounds better with that range a bit up":






Then I do an export without Sonarworks. 

Doesn't it mean, it will maybe double increase that range if I will listen with my headphones to this result? Isn't it an overload of bass then?


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 4, 2020)

No. Because if you're used to how the headphones sound with sonarworks, you have it dialed in wet/dry to what works best for you, and you mix into it, then it ends up sounding good. In your scenario, it means that it sounds good with more bass and, therefore, will sound better with more bass more often than not on other systems.

All sonarworks is doing is getting it closer to flat. If, once more flattened, it needs more bass, then it needs more bass regardless. If you headphones naturally have a bass bump there, then you'd think it has good bass and, when you export it, it'll actually lack in bass.


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## AndreasHe (Aug 4, 2020)

Hmm. Interesting. I ordered now the whole package and will learn how it works and what effect come out.

Thanks guys for your help!


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 4, 2020)

It does take time to acclimate. And if you turn it on and off as it suits you, it gets harder to acclimate. It's better to turn it on and maybe try 65% or so (which is where I leave it), and then, every couple of days, try increasing it to see if you still like how a mix translates.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Aug 4, 2020)

AndreasHe said:


> Hmm. Interesting. I ordered now the whole package and will learn how it works and what effect come out.
> 
> Thanks guys for your help!



You won’t regret it!


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## Rory (Aug 4, 2020)

There's more buy-in for Sonarworks in the music production community than in the sound community generally. Most reviews are by people who have been paid to help flog the product.

An exception is this new review, from last week, by Dan Keen. Personally, I'm not there, but he is clearly a believer:


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## fakemaxwell (Aug 6, 2020)

This is the measured frequency response of the Yamaha NS-10, probably the most famous speaker of all time. Wouldn't really call that flat, and yet it has been raved about for its translation for decades. "Flat" response does not equal translation. Learning your gear no matter what it is does.

Using Sonarworks for room correction is a different story, minor adjustments there can improve mixing but a lot of people want to use it as a magic bullet to correct massive nulls. Unfortunately software room correction hasn't solved that yet.


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## vitocorleone123 (Aug 6, 2020)

And most (virtually all?) mixing/mastering engineers have multiple speakers to see how it translates because no one pair of speakers is "reference" enough. Put those speakers in a room, and the frequency response changes, which is where something like Sonarworks comes in. Same sort of thing as room correction in home theater gear, only the goal for us if closer to flat rather than closer to a theater reference curve. 

It's definitely not a magic bullet, but it can be a little bit magical in terms of saving time and effort. You're spot on that no software can transparently correct large nulls. Headphones don't generally have those (except on the bottom and top where things roll off, I suppose, if you look at it that way).

On my headphones, the only thing I can mix on, I don't dial it to 100% as it actually does NOT translate well for me that way. I've found the sweetspot for my ears and my use and my headphones is at about 65%. Tame some peaks and valleys (esp. peaks) and boost some low end so I don't overdo it as much.


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## rhizomusicosmos (Aug 6, 2020)

It's true that Sonarworks screws up the characteristic tuning of some headphones. I have a pair of NAD Viso HP50s that don't benefit at all from "correction" as they have been tuned by the designer to sound somewhat speakerish and Sonarworks just tends to enhance their faults. But I wouldn't mix on the HP50s either.



fakemaxwell said:


> This is the measured frequency response of the Yamaha NS-10, probably the most famous speaker of all time. Wouldn't really call that flat, and yet it has been raved about for its translation for decades. "Flat" response does not equal translation. Learning your gear no matter what it is does.




The NS-10M has a hallowed place in the pantheon of recorded history. I have one colleague who loves his pair, I've never liked them. Do you think engineers would choose them today over JBL, Dynaudio and Genelec nearfield equivalents that are based on updated acoustic research?


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## ryst (Aug 8, 2020)

vitocorleone123 said:


> And most (virtually all?) mixing/mastering engineers have multiple speakers to see how it translates because no one pair of speakers is "reference" enough. Put those speakers in a room, and the frequency response changes, which is where something like Sonarworks comes in. Same sort of thing as room correction in home theater gear, only the goal for us if closer to flat rather than closer to a theater reference curve.
> 
> It's definitely not a magic bullet, but it can be a little bit magical in terms of saving time and effort. You're spot on that no software can transparently correct large nulls. Headphones don't generally have those (except on the bottom and top where things roll off, I suppose, if you look at it that way).
> 
> On my headphones, the only thing I can mix on, I don't dial it to 100% as it actually does NOT translate well for me that way. I've found the sweetspot for my ears and my use and my headphones is at about 65%. Tame some peaks and valleys (esp. peaks) and boost some low end so I don't overdo it as much.



This is correct. I have mix through NS10's, Event ASP8's, Sennheiser HD 280's and 600's, Logitech computer speakers, the 3 sets of speakers in the Waves Abbey Road Studio 3, and I also stream my mixes to my iPad and iPhone via audre.io.

I like Sonarworks. It certainly helps. But there is no magic bullet. You need to know your room, speakers, and I think using reference tracks helps a ton.....at least for people like me, who listen to a ton of different music from various genres and era's and constantly need to get my ears re-calibrated for whatever I'm mixing.


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## nas (Aug 8, 2020)

I have the Sonarworks Studio version and think the room correction for my monitors is very helpful. I have found the imaging tightens up and there's a clearer phantom center. As has been said, it's not a magic bullet... if you have a room with a very poor frequency response due to size, dimensions, and various surfaces, then Sonarworks is not going to solve that problem. Think of it as more the final step in a process of acoustic treatment and calibration... when you've got things prettifying much already dialed in.

Regarding Sonarworks for headphones, I had a pair of Senneiser HD600's with the Sonarworks factory tuned custom EQ for my set and didn't like how it sounded. I much preferred the HD600's as is and found them much easier (and enjoyable) to mix on without Sonarworks.

One should not underestimate the enjoyment and vibe factor when mixing... yes we want revealing "accurate playback" but also feeling the musical vibe and grooving with the mix can be really inspiring and facilitate creative (as well as technical) choices that can bring some magic to the mix and the overall process. 

So with the addition of Sonarworks as the final step for monitor room correction, it has worked very well and mixes do indeed feel and translate better for me, but for headphones I found I preferred the stock headphone tuning and mixes translated better without Sonarworks.

YMMV


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## robgb (Aug 8, 2020)

I think Blake Robinson did a video about sonarworks a few years back and swears by it.


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## robgb (Aug 8, 2020)

Here it is:


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## PeterN (Nov 26, 2021)

fakemaxwell said:


> I'm of the opinion that the Sonarworks stuff is all hype. No matter the response of a new headphone, you need time to learn and acclimate your ears. Once you've "learned" a headphone, you can test out mixes on different playback devices and see if what you're hearing matches. If it does, great, if not, you know that "oh these cans are a bit hyped here" and you adjust.
> 
> All placing an EQ curve in front of headphones does is make you go through the process again. A response curve being flat does NOT mean it will translate better. And even if it was better! You already have to check it anyway!
> 
> Beyerdynamic 990s are just about at the level where you can just say "okay these are good," and get mixing. So my advice? Focus on mixing, you'll reap far more benefits with time spent there than worrying about if your headphones have an aftermarket EQ. Same goes for all gear, once you hit a certain level it all becomes preference anyway, so just find something you like and forget about everything else. YOU can decide you are having trouble hearing something with time and experience, don't let a marketing scheme do that for you.



Bought this Sonarworks (for Headphones) black friday, and thats initial feeling as well: more of a hype thing. Thats initial reaction. This basically flattens it so it creates boxiness, Ive found it useful with headphones that are not too flat, bcs you can pick up stuff more easily. Judging by the comments, I guess some people do find the calibration useful. Sceptical here. Hope this proves useful - doubt it, like losing "earsight".


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## PeterN (Nov 26, 2021)

Great company anyway. Both trials available and following policy. 


_What if I don't like the product? 
No worries! We grant a 14-day money-back guarantee from the order date on any digital item or from the date of delivery on any shippable item you buy at Sonarworks online store. If you are not completely satisfied, please contact support team to arrange the return._


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 26, 2021)

PeterN said:


> Bought this Sonarworks (for Headphones) black friday, and thats initial feeling as well: more of a hype thing. Thats initial reaction. This basically flattens it so it creates boxiness, Ive found it useful with headphones that are not too flat, bcs you can pick up stuff more easily. Judging by the comments, I guess some people do find the calibration useful. Sceptical here. Hope this proves useful - doubt it, like losing "earsight".


I was skeptical too, until I realized what it does. It's not creating "boxiness", it's creating a neutral eq. It sounds "boxy" because your ears are so used to hearing your current listening environment. Give it some time, and use the new calibration for several days. When you then go back to your previous setup (no SW), it will sound awful (for lack of a better term). What you really need to do is try mixing with the new calibration and see how it translates onto other systems. For me it was a substantial improvement. Not only the headphone version, but also studio.


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## PeterN (Nov 26, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I was skeptical too, until I realized what it does. It's not creating "boxiness", it's creating a neutral eq. It sounds "boxy" because your ears are so used to hearing your current listening environment. Give it some time, and use the new calibration for several days. When you then go back to your previous setup (no SW), it will sound awful (for lack of a better term). What you really need to do is try mixing with the new calibration and see how it translates onto other systems. For me it was a substantial improvement. Not only the headphone version, but also studio.


Thanks! Really hope that proves to be the case! Was checking refund already. Will give it a chance, appreciate the insight.


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## PeterN (Nov 26, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I was skeptical too, until I realized what it does. It's not creating "boxiness", it's creating a neutral eq. It sounds "boxy" because your ears are so used to hearing your current listening environment. Give it some time, and use the new calibration for several days. When you then go back to your previous setup (no SW), it will sound awful (for lack of a better term). What you really need to do is try mixing with the new calibration and see how it translates onto other systems. For me it was a substantial improvement. Not only the headphone version, but also studio.


Mind asking where about you keep the wet dry knob? You have it 100% calibrated?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 26, 2021)

PeterN said:


> Mind asking where about you keep the wet dry knob? You have it 100% calibrated?


Yes.


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