# Behringer Model D demo/comparison



## zolhof (Aug 3, 2017)

Hey guys,

Jareth from Synthpro took the Behringer Model D for a spin and did a direct comparison to a real vintage Minimoog Model D from 1972. I know it's a touchy subject, but hopefully this video will bring some new perspective to the discussion. He did a fantastic job!



I'm impressed! This made me particularly excited about the OB-Xa reissue.


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## AllanH (Aug 3, 2017)

The Behringer D sounds incredibly good; especially at the price.


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## synthpunk (Aug 3, 2017)

Anyone else concerned about the ethics of reverse engineering a classic like this ? Perhaps it's my sentimental feelings towards moog and Dr. Bob Moog.


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## thereus (Aug 3, 2017)

Does it not make you question the cost of the current Moog's just as quickly?


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## AllanH (Aug 3, 2017)

I don't see an ethics issue - It is very common and acceptable to cost-reduce designs when patents have expired: generic drugs and personal computers are just two examples. We all consider those acceptable I would say.

What's really a pity, and a massive lost opportunity, is the that Moog (i.e. any of the successor companies) didn't do this on their own. They wasted away an opportunity to own the market by choosing to rest on their past achievements and ignoring current tech. There is no reason why a "new Model D" could not be $800-$1000 (imo); they would have made killing.

Behringer is difficult to compete with, but leaving a $3000+ gap is simply to attractive.

Everyone knows that the Behringer is a Model D clone, and as such, I would have chosen a name that's a bit more creative than simply "D". Even if they called it the "Behringer Mono-1", that would have been better.


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## gsilbers (Aug 3, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Anyone else concerned about the ethics of reverse engineering a classic like this ? Perhaps it's my sentimental feelings towards moog and Dr. Bob Moog.



For me its a little different. 

Its just ripp off. like buying a knockoff prada bag and putting "PLada" on the label. i just want to push poeple to not buy this synth from beringer and instead buy the deepmind. 

Everything is a build of something else, right? I mean, the Roland SE02 is also based on the same synth. the deepmind is based on the juno and so forth. Its just not making a mini copy, with colors, calling it MODEL D and just making a quick buck. If Berhinger decided to say its based on the moog D but they would of done a mono deepmind and added the effects and sequencer i wouldnt been all about it. they would have built upon a classic. their own version of it. an innovatino like deepmind is. 

So basically, its to have your own damn ideas and not ripoff someone elses. thats simply it.


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## gsilbers (Aug 3, 2017)

AllanH said:


> What's really a pity, and a massive lost opportunity, is the that Moog (i.e. any of the successor companies) didn't do this on their own. They wasted away an opportunity to own the market by choosing to rest on their past achievements and ignoring current tech. There is no reason why a "new Model D" could not be $800-$1000 (imo); they would have made killing.
> 
> Behringer is difficult to compete with, but leaving a $3000+ gap is simply to attractive.



Maybe its due to the cheap chinese labor? and all the ethic issues that it entails.


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## synthpunk (Aug 3, 2017)

No because I'm intelligent enough to know that the people working there are good people making a living wage to support their families and children, not a company paying minuscule wages with nets outside the windows to catch the people trying to kill themselves.



thereus said:


> Does it not make you question the cost of the current Moog's just as quickly?


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## thereus (Aug 3, 2017)

You have evidence that Behringer does those things or is that just some kind of slander?


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## chimuelo (Aug 3, 2017)

I've got friends in Cupertino working on greatdesigns.
The suicide rates in China come from much more than cheap labor.
I'm told that Apple pays family members 10 years salary upon a workers death.
So there's those who travel there and know, and there's media reports which are always UN biased since truth and honesty is a requirement for journalists.....


I'm getting an SE-02, maybe six if there's no lag in cascading via MIDI.
I certainly hope people aren't dying to build my synths.
But I don't have enough information other than Germans from Ferrofish that share space in Behringers massive factory.

Model D does have a good solid sound.


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## synthpunk (Aug 3, 2017)

Do you have proof that Chinese workers own the company they work for or earn a union approved living wage ? 

I hope you're not living a life of naivety that would be a shame and waste. Or maybe you're just trying to be a dickhead as usual and argue with people.



thereus said:


> You have evidence that Behringer does those things or is that just some kind of slander?


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## synthpunk (Aug 3, 2017)

Has Behringer ever had an original idea ever?



gsilbers said:


> For me its a little different.
> 
> Its just ripp off. like buying a knockoff prada bag and putting "PLada" on the label. i just want to push poeple to not buy this synth from beringer and instead buy the deepmind.
> 
> ...


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## thereus (Aug 3, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Do you have proof that Chinese workers own the company they work for or earn a union approved living wage ?
> 
> I hope you're not living a life of naivety that would be a shame and waste. Or maybe you're just trying to be a dickhead as usual and argue with people.



That is not what I was asking. Do you have evidence that the company making these devices have nets outside the windows to stop workers killing themselves?

We are told some other company somehere else did that once, apparently. You know nothing about the actual people who make this actual device. You are making things up to try to justify your negative view of this company. There's nothing wrong with holding a negative view of a company or of off-shoring if that is what they do, but it seems like a good idea to stick to the facts.

If I am wrong, you will produce the evidence, I am sure.

I am sure, also, that you will forgive me for ignoring your petty insult.


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## synthpunk (Aug 3, 2017)

It was hyperbole silly person. I'll write a thesys and white paper on it and get back to you in a couple months. Hopefully you finish your ethics course by then Lol

PS welcome to my ignore list.



thereus said:


> That is not what I was asking. Do you have evidence that the company making these devices have nets outside the windows to stop workers killing themselves?
> 
> We are told some other company somehere else did that once, apparently. You know nothing about the actual people who make this actual device. You are making things up to try to justify your negative view of this company. There's nothing wrong with holding a negative view of a company or of off-shoring if that is what they do, but it seems like a good idea to stick to the facts.
> 
> ...


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## gsilbers (Aug 3, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Has Behringer ever had an original idea ever?




Id like to give them credit for deepmind. even though its based on another synth, its more of an original idea or at least they built on something thats a standard. model D, as well as some of their other famous cheap chinese knockoffs, is too much on the nose nad mainly a cheap copy cuz we can and we can make a buck off someone elses design and idea and marketing and i dont think it should be encouraged. i might buy the deep mind once i can. and i will buy the roland se02 once i can but im not going to buy a "knockoff"


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## thereus (Aug 3, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> It was hyperbole silly person. I'll write a thesys and white paper on it and get back to you in a couple months. Hopefully you finish your ethics course by then Lol
> 
> PS welcome to my ignore list.



Ah. Hyperbole...

Bye then...


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## greggybud (Aug 5, 2017)

If and when Uli ever does a Yamaha GX-1 clone, (yes its' currently being reverse engineered) and considering the potential price difference....I'm in!

Sure you could ask for a CS-80 instead, but why not go back to the original..


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## Astronaut FX (Aug 5, 2017)

I'd like to think everyone should earn a fair wage. But what is that exactly? If there are Chinese workers being exploited to provide us with cheap products, I can't help but wonder if boycotting those products actually does them any favors. Will their employers suddenly respond with better wages and safer conditions, or do they end up in a worse situation if those employers go out of business. I don't know the answer, but I do try to look at all of the angles, not just those that are most obvious or "feel" the best.


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## synthpunk (Aug 5, 2017)

Have you ever had anything made in China that lasted more than a couple years? I haven't. There are original Minimoogs from the sixties still working fine although they do take a while to warm and tune up 

I've already been through that stage in life and there is not much thrill for me anymore but understand if other people are excited about it and not having to pay megabucks for it. 



Astronaut FX said:


> I'd like to think everyone should earn a fair wage. But what is that exactly? If there are Chinese workers being exploited to provide us with cheap products, I can't help but wonder if boycotting those products actually does them any favors. Will their employers suddenly respond with better wages and safer conditions, or do they end up in a worse situation if those employers go out of business. I don't know the answer, but I do try to look at all of the angles, not just those that are most obvious or "feel" the best.


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## lpuser (Aug 5, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Have you ever had anything made in China that lasted more than a couple years? I haven't.



Please note that a huge percentage of all high tech equipment is most likely built in China or at least components are coming from there. The real problem in my opinion is coming from China itself, building factories at the size of cities. 

It is also interesting to learn (from an interview posted on amazona.de in 2009) that Uli Behringer moved to Hong Kong, where he started to build up a team of 100+ developers.

And regarding "how long something lasts" - I have some Behringer gear which is now over 15 years and is still working. By I have also some US-build gear which hardly lasted longer than the warranty. No matter if you look at the automotive industry or at companies such as former Ensoniq, the build quality of US goods does not really have the best reputation around. All of my 3 Ensoniq synths were plagued of issues which made me give them back one by one.


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## gjelul (Aug 5, 2017)

synthpunk said:


> Anyone else concerned about the ethics of reverse engineering a classic like this ? Perhaps it's my sentimental feelings towards moog and Dr. Bob Moog.




I don't see an issue either - at this point everyone is doing it and asking Behringer to not venture in what they think it will make them money is just anachronic. 

How come we have no issue with other companies making pieces based on LA2As, Pultecs, Fairchilds, etc., etc. Behringer is giving an opportunity for people to have access on a "Moog."

Personally I would not buy it simply becasue I already have a Voyager and a few other synths and have no need for it.
But it may be a good entry point for someone starting out without having to rob a bank to get a monophonic synth.


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## synthpunk (Aug 16, 2017)

Sweetwater Preview

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/behringer-model-d-analog-synthesizer-module-review/


Did I see elsewhere that Uli has dropped the list price to $299usd? That is quite astounding and probably related in some way to the Roland SE-02. Of course the SE-02 also has memory and the step sequencer for $499usd.


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## Wes Antczak (Aug 16, 2017)

For $299 it certainly looks like it might be a fun thing to have. I don't really mind that it doesn't have patch memory and I have other sequencers that I can use to drive it if I like.

On the one hand, I would really love to have one of the Model D reissues while they're still available, but on the other hand I wouldn't really want to pay the price. The Behringer would be a "no brainer" alternative so to speak. The thing that also remains to be seen is the build quality.


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## Wes Antczak (Aug 18, 2017)




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## IFM (Aug 19, 2017)

A great Moog without the crazy pricing is a Mother 32 or Sub Pahtty. They both sound great but the Behringer is just too good to pass up at that price.


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