# Star Wars Cantina Band track. Do I hear an analog synth?



## Studio E (Mar 27, 2011)

I was wondering if that's not a Moog of some sort doing the bass in that track. Anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hLarHt6wi8


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## mverta (Mar 27, 2011)

Yes.

_Mike


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## Studio E (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks Mike


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## lux (Mar 27, 2011)

yup, that bass sounds terrible btw


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## Studio E (Mar 27, 2011)

Lol, yeah......I suppose you could say that. I am just amazed as I play through my soundtrack collections on itunes, just how much film music has changed in my lifetime. I'm sure it seemed very cool to use that Moog then.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 27, 2011)

lux @ Sun Mar 27 said:


> yup, that bass sounds terrible btw



Actually I like it.


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## mverta (Mar 27, 2011)

I dig it because it's a distinctive tone; it's not trying to be something it's not. It's a synth bass patch. That's part of why I dig Wendy Carlos' TRON soundtrack so much - sure, the sound is "dated," but it's actually solid music, done largely on synths trying to be synths.


_Mike


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## noiseboyuk (Mar 27, 2011)

Ashermusic @ Sun Mar 27 said:


> lux @ Sun Mar 27 said:
> 
> 
> > yup, that bass sounds terrible btw
> ...



Me too. Cantina Band #2 is even more Moogy. Tatooine likes analogue I guess.

There's a far far worse synth in Empire Strikes Back. Listen to The Training Of A Jedi Knight / The Magic Tree. At around 3'50 is the worst musical moment probably in all 6 movies.


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## mverta (Mar 27, 2011)

Don't even have to look it up to know you're referring to that sawtooth-y theremin-like thing. Total ass.


_Mike


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## lux (Mar 27, 2011)

to be honest i think the entire cantina band stuff wouldnt be even mentioned anywhere and by anyone if it wasnt John Williams. Still, with all the love for the composer, i cannot even think to compare those two incidentals with the rest of the opera. The synth bass is probably due to some attempt to get the typical jazzy feel more "spacey". Moogish electronica means "space" from late '60, so maybe that was the goal. in any case i have no idea as i'm not much into biographic details about John William's life like most of you guys

Of course it rests assumed the cantina sequence scene is fun, as everything else in the movie.


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## mverta (Mar 27, 2011)

Actually those two little innocuous cues have a ton of chops in them.

_Mike


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## lux (Mar 27, 2011)

i expected the reply exactly as it came.


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## lux (Mar 27, 2011)

mverta @ Sun Mar 27 said:


> That's because you realized your misstep. Williams' jazz roots actually shone clear in those little pieces. They're totally legit.
> 
> _Mike



a lot of assumptions in a single sentence, almost a record. worths mentioning:

- youre assuming i'm not aware of JW's background
- youre assuming i cannot recognize chops
- Youre assuming that i considered the tracks as in some way "not legit"

not bad. In general i think those two tracks, expecially the first and most famous cantina, are still purely incidentals inserted in a monumental opera like the star wars suite. The fact you need some jazz chops for those looks merely unrelevant if youre really considering the greatness and the abilities of the composer. Those tracks, were done by some john doe, would have never seen the honour of a forum discussion, trust me.


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## mverta (Mar 27, 2011)

Huh?

Whoever would have done them, they'd have merited discussion for their legitimacy, to say nothing of the fact that they were popular enough on their own to spawn a ton of covers and versions by various artists. Everybody knows that damn tune. That in itself is impressive.

There's plenty of Williams stuff I don't dig, but 100% of it has serious chops. There's more musicality in one of those little cues than in entire Academy Award winning scores I might mention.


_Mike


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## lux (Mar 27, 2011)

i think youre basically alone defending chops which nobody here discussed.


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## mverta (Mar 27, 2011)

Yes. I wasn't clear on which other aspects of the pieces you were basing your dismissal of them on.
_Mike


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## lux (Mar 27, 2011)

I didnt dismiss them, of course.

I was merely pointing out that i believe if they were by someone else you (or me) would have never spent a single word on it in your (or my) entire life. Only if considered in a complex view of entire JW's career it makes sense in the "incidentals influenced by JW's own background" chapter. Which is interesting for biographic purposes only, from own my point of view.

I think there are hundreds thousands tracks in the style which nobody talks about. Just because theyre from John Does'.


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## mverta (Mar 27, 2011)

Speak for yourself. I give credit where it's due, regardless of who it's from. That you have never heard me praise a myriad of pieces written anonymously for Disneyland 50 years ago doesn't mean I haven't. As for your saying that the pieces would never have merited a discussion had they not been Williams pieces, I'm afraid that's about as dismissive as it gets. And, as it turns out, very probably untrue.


_Mike


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## lux (Mar 27, 2011)

i'm not sure i'm really interested to know where youre used to give your credits.

Still your opinion on the cantinas is welcome, glad i've heard it.


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## mverta (Mar 27, 2011)

Stay classy.


_Mike


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## shadoe42 (Mar 28, 2011)

Personally i always thought those cantina pieces were rather fun listens. although after awhile they did get old cause it seemed they showed up every where you turned. and heaven forbid if you are running a starwars game every time the 'party' enters a cantina the whole game table starts humming that tune


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## skyy38 (Aug 8, 2011)

While the Moog was a popular "go-to" name and product in the 70's, I believe the bass track in question was performed on an ARP 2600.


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## synthetic (Aug 8, 2011)

Yeah, pretty sure it was ARP 2600. Williams seemed to prefer ARP, it's also on Raiders, Close Encounters, Empire Strikes Back.


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## David Story (Aug 8, 2011)

Williams uses synths less than most, they are there for texture. Noisy effects or subtle color, not a lead. I hear a slap upright in with the moog, a "spacy" orchestration touch, like people said above.

This cue is a lot of synth for JW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA09kg7Euhc

Works like crazy in the film.

Williams usually suggests the timbre and effect, and Randy cooks it up at the session.


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## steb74 (Aug 8, 2011)

SW (2LP)
(Liner Notes by Charles Lippincott with quotations by John Williams)

Cantina Band - Side 2: Track 5

Ben and Luke enter a Mos Eisley cantina in search of a space pilot to get them off Tatooine. Ben meets Chewbacca while Luke gets in a fight with several surly creatures. Ben comes to his rescue. "Can you imagine," George Lucas suggested, "several creatures in a future century finding some 1930‘s Benny Goodman swing band music in a time capsule or under a rock someplace - and how they might attempt to interpret it?"

_This is the only track that does not use members of the London Symphony Orchestra, and it is the only source music in the film. We used nine musicians, mostly jazz. They included one trumpet, two saxophones, one saxophone who doubled on clarinet, a Fender Rhodes piano, a Caribbean steel drum, assorted percussion, a drum and an Arp synthesizer for the bass. We mixed them so they sound a little bit strange, almost familiar but not quite. We filtered them so that it clips the bottom end of the sound. We attenuated the low end a little bit and reverbed them so that it slightly thins them out._

------------------------------

What I personally love about the Cantina cues is that they have a genuine feel for the period, not a modern construction kit sound ....and they are superbly performed, with the added bonus of Williams' gift for melodic inevitability.
I absolutely love his synth usage from back in the day, especially the examples from TESB mentioned above, I'm very surprised to read of the dislike towards them considering the dreck that floats around these days ......but indeed, to each their own.


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## David Story (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks for the quote! I'm hearing the Rhodes and maybe percusion as a slap. Not at the end 

It's amazing how the ARP could be filtered to give a sound so close to the famous Moog VCO and filters. 
Makes me wonder how much of a synth's unique sound comes from programing, not the hardware.

Williams does use digital synths, since the 90's, including Yamaha Organ and DX7.

Actually, I think the bass line in Cantina Band has more of an alien dixie tuba vibe.

EDIT:
In addition to confirming the Arp, starwars.com says:

Meet the Modal Nodes -- a group of seven Bith musicians trained in jazzy popular music. Frontman for the Nodes is Fiery Figrin D'an, a card-shark and expert on the kloo horn and the gasan string drum. Backing him up on wind instruments are Doikk Na'ts on the Dorenian Beshniquel (or the Fizzz, for those in the know), and Ickabel G'ont and Tedn Dahai on their fanfars. Rounding out the band are Tech Mo'r on the Ommni Box and Nalan Cheel on the horn bell-bedecked bandfill. Lirin Car'n only sits in from time to time, but he does play a mean kloo horn backup.


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## synthetic (Aug 9, 2011)

David Story @ Mon Aug 08 said:


> It's amazing how the ARP could be filtered to give a sound so close to the famous Moog VCO and filters.
> Makes me wonder how much of a synth's unique sound comes from programing, not the hardware.



Not that amazing. Moog sued ARP for copying their filter. ARP put the same (patented) Moog filter on a board and poured epoxy on it to hide the circuit. Later 2600s had a different filter (though still 24dB).


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## David Story (Aug 9, 2011)

synthetic @ Tue Aug 09 said:


> David Story @ Mon Aug 08 said:
> 
> 
> > It's amazing how the ARP could be filtered to give a sound so close to the famous Moog VCO and filters.
> ...



So we're hearing a Moog with an ARP label on it.


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