# Heavyocity Mosaic and Novo/Forzo/Vento - CPU usage may be a showstopper



## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

After using Heavyocity instruments for a while and currently suffering with Mosaic Keys CPU load, I think it is time to express a kind of warning to others.

Yes, their instruments are quite innovative for Kontakt instruments and often provide good features compared to others. But can they be used to build up a complex track?

The answer is: It depends on how many instances you have. Currently I am trying Mosaic Keys with just 4 instances and it brings my PC to the limit:

64 RAM
4500 MHz / Intel 7700K
Windows 10
NI Audio 6 interface
Studio One 5
... That is not so bad for an audio workstation.

So what happens if I use Mosaic Keys with 4 instances and some filters and Arps on? The performance meter (inside the DAW) jumps around and often reaches the limit. You can not listen anymore as immense amount of crackles come it. To be honest I was not sure if it is my audio interface with USB 2. But there is not much sound transfered and when convert them to wav, there is no issue at all.






Its obvious the Mosaic series has the same core as Novo/Forzo/Vento - it looks quite similar, so I think it must be the same base KSP software.

Even by reducing settings and disabling filters and it just plays 6 samples at the same time (not much), it takes a lot of CPU. Why?

I have no idea. I think it must be something not nice programmed.

For me the conclusion is: I can not buy any more Heavyocity instrument based on this core as it gets useless if I it brings my DAW to the limit.

But what is your opinion about that?


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## Technostica (Nov 14, 2020)

What CPU do you have?


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

Technostica said:


> What CPU do you have?



Intel 7700K


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## davidson (Nov 14, 2020)

AndreasHe said:


> After using Heavyocity instruments for a while and currently suffering with Mosaic Keys CPU load, I think it is time to express a kind of warning to others.
> 
> Yes, their instruments are quite innovative for Kontakt instruments and often provide good features compared to others. But can they be used to build up a complex track?
> 
> ...



Just so you know, I have the same cpu issues - novo, forzo, and all related libraries. They're just cpu heavy libraries (as are sonokinetic) for whatever reason. I'd say its down to dodgy programming but I don't know. Maybe anything that uses kontakts TM algo is just a pig full stop? The CPU overhead shouldn't be as high as it is imo as there's no real wizardry going on for the user. Slate and Ash cycles, yeah, I expect high cpu and it's obvious why.

Mac pro trashcan, 6 core, 64gb, logic, uad apollo


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## Mornats (Nov 14, 2020)

I loaded up 4 instances of Mosaic Keys into Reaper (Win 10 PC) and basically put my entire arm across the keyboard. I have an i7 4790k at 4.5ghz with 32GB RAM and across the 8 threads I get the following CPU usage:
24%
13%
54%
14%
12%
12%
12%
17%

Reaper shows RT CPU usage at around 54% (so it's taking the one thread that's doing the bulk of the work here). I'm running at a buffer of 128 samples on a Focusrite Forte. This is with no other effects or anything else running.


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

Oh that is not fair  Reaper is known to has a good performance.

As you have a Focusride, I guess it is at least USB 3? I wonder now if a faster connection reduces CPU load?


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## davidson (Nov 14, 2020)

Mornats said:


> I loaded up 4 instances of Mosaic Keys into Reaper (Win 10 PC) and basically put my entire arm across the keyboard. I have an i7 4790k at 4.5ghz with 32GB RAM and across the 8 threads I get the following CPU usage:
> 24%
> 13%
> 54%
> ...



Interesting, although I'm referring to the orchestral libraries for myself personally. Something I noticed is that both myself and the OP use komplete kontrol. Culprit perhaps? I don't suppose you fancy testing it in kk (if you have it) to see if it affects it do you?


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

KK is just a wrapper around Kontakt. If nothing is played the CPU is low. Means KK does not take so much in addition.


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## Mornats (Nov 14, 2020)

I have Komplete Kontrol so let me recreate that test and report back.


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## Mornats (Nov 14, 2020)

RT CPU is around 60-62% now with roughly what I was doing earlier but with KK as the wrapper on each Kontakt instance. It's not scientific so under more controlled conditions it may be negligible.


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## Technostica (Nov 14, 2020)

AndreasHe said:


> As you have a Focusride, I guess it is at least USB 3? I wonder now if a faster connection reduces CPU load?


Do any AIs actually use USB 3.0?
Some use USB Type-C, but that can just as easily be with USB 2.0 than 3.0.


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## shponglefan (Nov 14, 2020)

Out of curiosity, I just tested things myself.

My system specs are Intel i9 9900k, 64 GB RAM, Windows 10 and an RME Babyface Pro FS interface. DAW is latest version of Reaper. Buffer is 1024 samples.

Initially I set up 4 instances of various Mosaic instruments (patches selected at random) playing sustained triads. I do start getting a few audio pops.

If I push it further, then audio distortion/pops become more pronounced.

The weird thing is that Reaper's CPU usage isn't particularly high. For example, here is with 10 instances loaded all playing sustained triads:







Yet listening to the audio and it's a crackly mess.

Now personally I typically don't use more than one or two instances of Mosaic instruments, so I've never run into these issues before. But it's interesting that it does seem to struggle with output when the instances start climbing.

edited to add: Playing around with different patches does seem to make a difference. In some cases I can get 4 instances (all playing sustained triads) with no pops 'n crackles at all. In other cases, noise starts to creep in.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 14, 2020)

Haven't had any issues yet.

Running a 2010 Mac Pro (cheese grater) with dual Xeon processors for a total of 8 cores and only 32gb RAM. Cubase 9.5.

They seem like they'd be pretty CPU taxing libraries considering how involved and busy they are.


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

shponglefan said:


> Out of curiosity, I just tested things myself.
> 
> My system specs are Intel i9 9900k, 64 GB RAM, Windows 10 and an RME Babyface Pro FS interface. DAW is latest version of Reaper. Buffer is 1024 samples.



That is very interesting as RME seems to provide the fastest drivers. And yes, I wondered if it would help to invest in RME (which are expensive). But it looks like, it would not help so much in this point.




Mike Fox said:


> Haven't had any issues yet.
> 
> Running a 2010 Mac Pro (cheese grater) with dual Xeon processors for a total of 8 cores and only 32gb RAM. Cubase 9.5.
> 
> They seem like they'd be pretty CPU taxing libraries considering how involved and busy they are.



Did you try with Mosaic?

Mac seems to handle interrupts for Audio better. Means audio realtime processing is better.
That might be the point if people say "Mac for DAW is better". But if you have the possiblity to run some Mosaic tracks at once, it would be interesting.

Now I also checked my hardware. Disabled a lot. Updated drives. Used LatencyMon. But at the end it is not better. It looks like Mosaic is simply too CPU hungry.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 14, 2020)

AndreasHe said:


> That is very interesting as RME seems to provide the fastest drivers. And yes, I wondered if it would help to invest in RME (which are expensive). But it looks like, it would not help so much in this point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, I was just referring to Forozo/Novo. I don't have Mosaic.


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## maestro2be (Nov 14, 2020)

I tested this on my AMD machine and Studio One never goes above 12% CPU.

I know this will probably start another debate but, do me a favor and turn your Dropout Protection down to MINIMUM and try again. Studio One idoes NOT perform well in most cases I have ever seen where people are setting it to HIGH and MAXIMUM. I know it goes against what you THINK it should be doing, but it simply causes more issues than I ever see good.

So please just take the same song, change to miminum and try it again. My gut tells me you will instantly shoot down to below 20% CPU.

**EDIT - let me add that when I set my beast of a machine to HIGH, I got INSTANTLY to 65% CPU.**

M


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

maestro2be said:


> **EDIT - let me add that when I set my beast of a machine to HIGH, I got INSTANTLY to 65% CPU.**



I did not get it; what did you set to high?

It depends also what other services or devices are installed. If it is a very untouched machine, there are not so many interrups in realtime processing. I would not believe an AMD machine is there better than Intel.

I watched this great video here, which explains a lot:





[VIDEO] CPU Performance vs. Real-Time Performance in Your DAW


Perhaps of interest to the folks here - I've found that the difference between real-time performance and CPU performance is one of the most-misunderstood elements of DAW performance. I've discussed it a bunch of times with a bunch of folks here and elsewhere, so I thought I'd put a video...




vi-control.net


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## maestro2be (Nov 14, 2020)

Let me try again as you missed the point completely. It was probably me not explaining it well enough.

Look at the photo you posted. Do you see it? You posted a photo that shows you are using HIGH for your dropout protection settings. Notice I said in my post for you to check your dropout protection settings. All you need to do is go to that and change it to MINIMUM.

Then try your song again. Forget all the other stuff your mentioning like AMD is not better than Intel and the other things that are not causing your problem.

After you try my suggestion we can go from there.

My additional information was also pointing for you that when I set my Dropout protection (the entire point of the post) to HIGH, I instantly get your terrible shitty results.

Please change yours to MINIMUM and try again and post the results. Hope that's more clear.

Thanks,

M


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

Ah now I got you:


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## maestro2be (Nov 14, 2020)

Yea that's a real bummer. I had your exact issues in Studio One and had to find that myself and it resolved all my final issues. It's very clear from that screenshot that your results got worse. If I set mine to Minimum it's perfect low CPU. If I use High then I get 65% CPU hitting play.

I do have an RME audio interface with the most updated drivers. I also changed from NVidia to AMD video on this new machine.

Do you have CPU Hyperthreading turned on or off in your BIOS? When I have this turned on, both Studio One and Cubase completely FART and pop and click at the smallest amount of pushing it. Turning this off for me instantly solved all my Cubase ASIO issues and made Studio one take 4 times as much as it could prior in virtual instruments playing at once.

What's your Kontakt multi-thread settings? I have mine set to Off. I have CPU overload protection set to disabled. I have my Memory preload buffer settings to 240.00kB. I try to make everything run from Memory (I have 128GB RAM).

I wonder if this is your Audio interface giving you such bad results as well. I have no experience with that audio interface.

In terms of AMD vs Intel being better, that depends on many things. I have 32 physical cores running at 4.00ghz and you have 4 running at 4.20GHZ.

What is the CPU % in Windows when this happens? Mine wasn't ever hitting 100% or near it but it would skip, crackle and pop. All before I turned off Hyper-threading in BIOS.

Are you streaming from an SSD?

I feel like if you find the magic button or driver update you need you might be able to fix this. This feels like something you machine could handle 4 instances of.


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## maestro2be (Nov 14, 2020)

Also, have you ever run Latency Monitor to see if it could help you identify your issue:






Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks


LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks



www.resplendence.com





You have several things to try at this point so I will wait to see your results from your tests and see where you are. Finding the cause to these issues is sometimes such a pain in the butt!

M


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

Wow ok, many steps. I want to check them all.

First: my Windows CPU load is then around 40%

Yes Hyperthreading is enabled. I will try without (even if I need it somewhere else  )

Tried already to disable Intel SpeedStep, but without effect.




maestro2be said:


> What's your Kontakt multi-thread settings? I have mine set to Off. I have CPU overload protection set to disabled. I have my Memory preload buffer settings to 240.00kB. I try to make everything run from Memory (I have 128GB RAM).



Just set also to 240 and then no sound comes out anymore from Kontakt. Can I set this 

SSD; yes.

I also found this:





Is this correct or should it be set to ASIO?

... testing is going on, will come back...


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## maestro2be (Nov 14, 2020)

That should be set to your asio sound card.


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

maestro2be said:


> Also, have you ever run Latency Monitor to see if it could help you identify your issue:



Yes. If I read it correctly it does not show me a lot of things blocking.


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## maestro2be (Nov 14, 2020)

Did changing kontakt to asio help?


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

The CPU overload protection does not appear in Kontakt inside KK. Just when I use Kontakt directly. Kk does not have such an option.

The driver settings only appear if I start Kontakt as standalone app. I think Studio One takes over it's own settings.

Now I am diving into Bios regarding hyperthreading. ... will be back ...


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

I am back. Disabled:


Speedstep
Hyperthreading
HyperV

But it is still the same.


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

I have now to mention also this post from me:






Studio One dropouts and crackles with NI Audio 6 but temp resolved of disabling device


Hello folks, I am looking to resolve a dropout/crackling issue - just tried 4x Heavyocity's "Mosaic Keys" and my S1 CPU goes to a high level. AND NOW a very strange thing I can not explain: - I let the music loop - Going to option and disable sound device - reactivating Audio 6 NOW IT WORKS...




vi-control.net





It is a strange effect, if I disable audio in S1 and reselect Audio during playback. It works! But just until I stop and start the song again.


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## maestro2be (Nov 14, 2020)

Some strange stuff indeed.

I am curious if you close everyting (Studio one etc.) and then open a stand aloe Kontakt instance.

Then load 4 instances of Mosaic Keys, choose the same 4 instruments you tried to play in Studio One and set them all to respond to Midi channel 1. Then play a chord. Does it allow you to play them without issues? You may need to set the Kontakt stand alone to multi-processor and your Asio sound card.

What we're trying to see is if this works great outside of Studio One but not in Studio one.

Do you buy chance have VE Pro you can also place these instruments inside of and test hosting them inside that instead of Studio One?


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

Ok it took a moment. Yes in pure Kontakt (no S1) it is the same, except the stuttering starts with 5 instances of the instrument.

I have no VE Pro.


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## AndreasHe (Nov 14, 2020)

Again I killed all processes which are not Kernel part. Nothing new.

Tried a virtual audio interface "Voice Meter" as output. There I see the same CPU load.

I thought first it realy may be the Audio driver. But if it is the same with a virtual device - hmm.

Would be realy interesting if there would be a difference when using for examle a RME driver?


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## AndreasHe (Nov 16, 2020)

Just wanted to complete the report with a screenshot of latency-mon.

For me it looks good. And no driver has a high execution time. 















My CPU [i7 7700K] is also one of the best CPUs for a daw as the singe core Ghz is high.

So now, after testing the last 4 days (and nights), it looks to me my PC suits quite well for a DAW and it could realy be the VST of heavyocity by itself somehow.

I will get a new audio-interface from RME and will check with that again. But I don't think this will make a big difference.


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