# So would orchestral music be better with a stereo mix or 5.1 surround sound?



## Desire Inspires (Nov 2, 2016)

It seems that typical L/R panning doesn't really provide a realistic sound for orchestral sound. Surround sound would be a more realistic interpreation of what is going on. Of course nothing can replace being physically immersed in a building with acoustics and real musicians, as the physics around live sound breathes a different life into the music. But surround sound seems like a better solution than typical L/R panning. Who here mixes in 5.1 or other surround sound techniques?


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Nov 3, 2016)

I've been working in 5.1 and it's quite disappointing when a client only wants stereo. Recently picked up some high res classical recordings in 5.1 and they're fantastic. You mute the surrounds and the music feels tiny. I'm hoping someday I can hear a classical recording on a 22.2 system.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 3, 2016)

_Everything_ sounds better in 5.1 when it is done properly. When I first heard the Cirque Du Soleil "Love" soundtrack of Beatles recordings on a good 5.1 system, it sounded amazing to me. Even Ringo was impressed.


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## Selfinflicted (Nov 3, 2016)

It's similar to if you listen to mono recordings then listen to stereo. Aesthetic decisions aside, there is just way more focus and clarity the more channels you have.... with a good mix. The spacial placement gives far greater depth. It becomes a lot easier for detail to come across.


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## John Busby (Nov 3, 2016)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I've been working in 5.1 and it's quite disappointing when a client only wants stereo. Recently picked up some high res classical recordings in 5.1 and they're fantastic. You mute the surrounds and the music feels tiny. I'm hoping someday I can hear a classical recording on a 22.2 system.


how do you make use of the BL & BR channels?
for instance
reverb bus, delay plug in, percussion stuff, strings ect...?
i'm interested to know


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Nov 3, 2016)

johnbusbymusic said:


> how do you make use of the BL & BR channels?
> for instance
> reverb bus, delay plug in, percussion stuff, strings ect...?
> i'm interested to know



Right now just reverb/ambience mics in orchestral sort of music but I'd like to experiment more with putting different things there like in the Inception mix.


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## colony nofi (Nov 13, 2016)

There's no need to restrict yourself to a front / back mix when it comes to 5.1 / 7.1 / dobly atmos. There is a lot of room to place things further forward (back towards the rears) and it can work magic (even when working for films / syncing to story on screen). 
BUT its a great place to start.

If you are using nuendo, grab some orchestral stems, open up a bunch of anymix-pro panners, and don't move for a week. Its incredibly deep what you can do without ANY other processing. The panners alone have so many things to try / tricks built in (including some awesome upmixing algos.)

Its fun trying out things like reverb AFTER panning, or before panning. Or a little bit of both. 

Then try mono sources vs stereo sources / and their placement in the audio-field. 

As far as sample libs go, libs like spitfire are particularly suited to surround - one can use say the TREE for front speaker, and ambient / outriggers for rears. Zero other reverb sometimes needed - and its a very cool starting point.

OR go for close mics placed slightly into the surround field (out in front of the LCR speakers) fed into a lush surround reverb. Completely different spacialization / effect. But no less useful.


Then become addicted, and do your first mix in XYZ (atmos / iosono or some other custom solution - there are many) and watch out - you'll never want to go back.

Oh - and I'm also just playing with a bit of mixing using 3rd order ambisonics / head tracking headphones. Fun as well.

Now - for your original question... it just depends on what you call realistic. 

Do you mean - sitting in a concert hall with the orchestra in front of you? It can do that - and dolby atmos does it even better.

Do you mean wandering thru the chamber orchestra as Max Richter performs sleep? It can do that incredibly (and unlike anything else before as far as realism goes)

Do you mean film music - where you are going for EMOTION over realism? Hell yeah it has so much more to offer than stereo.


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## colony nofi (Nov 13, 2016)

To add one other little bit of info...
Once you go over stereo, the listening environment becomes even MORE important. So - surround for home is a huge problem. Very few people are able to setup surrounds (or ceiling speakers) in positions that even get close to optimal - or even something approximating optimal. 
I was just talking to a screen editor the other day about his setup, and for entertainment purposes for his home, I suggested a dolby atmos / DTS-X soundbar (!!!!) over surround speakers. There's some amazing tech going into those things these days (I was lucky enough to demo a new yamaha version recently and it blew me away!)
Now - does it sound like cinema dolby atmos? No way - but it provides a very immersive environment for home entertainment / movies which is better than most - especially for those who's couch is up against a wall. Now - if you have a home media room, its a different story.

Why do I bring this up?

When you are listening in stereo to an orchestra, the soundfield is the mixed soundfield PLUS the reverberations of the room you are in. Even in a home these can be problematic - but in a good room, they can sound beautiful. 
Surround on the other hand can become to sound very smeared / less clear very quickly in a non-ideal room. Somewhat more problematic than stereo in my opinion.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 14, 2016)

colony nofi said:


> Going for EMOTION over realism



I may make that part of my signature


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## willf_music (Dec 18, 2016)

johnbusbymusic said:


> how do you make use of the BL & BR channels?
> for instance
> reverb bus, delay plug in, percussion stuff, strings ect...?
> i'm interested to know


good question. what I have seen is that people will often use a surround mic config. to capture the ambience properly. so my guess is that you would run reverbs or whatever you can use to simulate the room acoustics to your back channels.


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## willf_music (Dec 18, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> I may make that part of my signature


I would also make the argument that if you want to make a realistic piece of music... you should compose the emotion and work with a talented musician. Music is to be shared.


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