# What?!! Tonehammer Requiem Lite discontinued?! Why?!!!



## noiseboyuk (Feb 9, 2011)

I'm obviously late to the, er, end of the party and probably missed the thread. But I'm aghast... no more Requiem Lite?!

I'm not sure where to begin, really. Lite was spot-on price-wise... with Symphonic Choirs now usable with integrated Wordbuilder and often cheap as chips, it provided realistic competition. It was also precisely the product I'd want - reduced mic positions and resource-loading. I'm also aghast at the manner of its sudden demise... where was the final month to buy? I'm on Tonehammer's facebook page, read VI Control and KVR and have seen nothing (maybe I just had several blind spots?). Just vanished.... it's both depressing and slightly creepy! Search now on Google, and... well, I'd advise you don't actually, it really is depressing.

So I can only deduce that it was too successful, and not enough people were buying Pro. A great, great shame and - imho - a giant step backwards. Tonehammer are essentially usually beyond reproach for their attitude and products, but this... HUH?!!!


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## jlb (Feb 9, 2011)

They realised it was too cheap, end of story

jlb


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## Daniel James (Feb 9, 2011)

Tonehammer loves you all.....just not that much apparently XD


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 9, 2011)

jlb @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> They realised it was too cheap, end of story
> 
> jlb



I guess so, but even then imho it's badly handled. Why not say "this price for the next fortnight, then up to $399" (or whatever). Pulling it completely with no notice or even announcement after its gone.... really strange.

I have SC, pretty happy with it now, but Requiem Lite was on my very shortlist if only for the legatos. Requiem Pro isn't - it's not a compelling enough case for someone in my position.


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## Pzy-Clone (Feb 9, 2011)

hm...so does that mean the upgrade path from Requiem light has vanished as well, or...?


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## 2496 (Feb 9, 2011)

Pzy-Clone @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> hm...so does that mean the upgrade path from Requiem light has vanished as well, or...?



http://www.tonehammer.com/?p=4809


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## bluejay (Feb 9, 2011)

No, the upgrade path definitely hasn't vanished.


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## Ryan Scully (Feb 9, 2011)

In fact I see the upgrade path is now substantially less than it was previously...This now actually makes Requiem PRO a possible acquisition for me in the future.


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## jlb (Feb 9, 2011)

Yes but what about those without Lite, they are out in the cold, not good business. If Lite was a limited time product they should have made that clear.

jlb


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## Pzy-Clone (Feb 9, 2011)

Well, if that`s the case then that IS good news, the upgrade was something like 600 USD last time i checked?

However, when i go to the "instruments" menu on their site, the upgrade is not listed anywhere...hence my comment about the upgrade path being terminated.
I dunno where you found that link, cuz i cant find a link to the upgrade path anywhere on their site anymore , but the link posted here seems to be valid tho.


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## Tanuj Tiku (Feb 9, 2011)

Music and all the business around it is one big party - have fun till it lasts!

At the end of the day, economics is a major reality check - if they are not making any money with the product, of course they have to discontinue it - may be actual sales figures are not as good as we think the product is. 


There seems no other reason for this unless of course, they are going to release something new in this bracket.


Best,

Tanuj.


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## Justus (Feb 9, 2011)

Oh, in this case Adobe should discontinue Photoshop too...


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 9, 2011)

vibrato @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> Music and all the business around it is one big party - have fun till it lasts!
> 
> At the end of the day, economics is a major reality check - if they are not making any money with the product, of course they have to discontinue it - may be actual sales figures are not as good as we think the product is.
> 
> ...



Don't quite get that either though... the product is done, recorded, edited, bought and paid for, it now just sits on a server. Surely you don't make things better by pulling it completely? How does this cut your losses, even if it's true? Same with warez... sure it bad that it is pirated (come on, let's see some digital watermark butt kicking) but you don't help any by withdrawing the legitimate product and leaving it 100% piracy.


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## Darryl Jackson (Feb 9, 2011)

I'm very disappointed by this as well. I wouldn't say I'm angry, since they have the right to do what they wish with their product (as long as the upgrade path remained open for people who already bought it), but I can say that I definitely won't be buying any of their choirs in the near future.

If it was a matter of giving too much for the price, I would have understood if they made an announcement saying things would be toned down for users who buy after a certain date, but for them to discontinue Light doesn't make much sense to me.


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## Frederick Russ (Feb 9, 2011)

Because of confidentiality, I cannot be specific as to why ReqLite was pulled, but I can say that it was done for a very good reason. There will be benefits to all in the end but I cannot disclose because of confidentiality. Its human to assume the absolute worst as to why things are done. Its problematic though when it becomes a reason to explore piracy as an option which is not really the reason for this move at all. Those who brought this up know better but decided to do it anyway.


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 9, 2011)

Frederick Russ @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> Because of confidentiality, I cannot be specific as to why ReqLite was pulled, but I can say that it was done for a very good reason. There will be benefits to all in the end but I cannot disclose because of confidentiality. Its human to assume the absolute worst as to why things are done. Its problematic though when it becomes a reason to explore piracy as an option which is not really the reason for this move at all. Those who brought this up know better but decided to do it anyway.



I appreciate you can't say more... perhaps Troels can say something since there's a lot of confused people here (and also to clarify the position on upgrades for those affected). Glad to hear, Frederick, you think there will be some good that comes of it though.

Just to illustrate what a minefield this whole area is, I wasn't aware of the piracy of this product 'til I google-searched... this was what I was alluding to in the OP but didn't spell out (and raises again my bugbear on Google's culpability). I'm sure no-one here would condone what's happened for a microsecond, but when it's that in-your-face there's little point in avoiding the issue.


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## chimuelo (Feb 9, 2011)

Well the RIAA has won several cases that really ended up costing the infringer ( pirate ) lots of defense lawyer fees, etc.etc. and then lost the case anyways.
These pirates need to be made an example of.

I never like listening to cheapskates whine about costs of developments here, but I tolerate it as long as it is kept civil. It's hard enough making a living at being a developer and they sadly have to see their love and labor insulted publicly, but it's entirely different to have some dirtbag pirating content and software.

I would love to find a few, and then steal their computers and gear. It's like robbing a dope dealer.............who they going to run to.........the cops..??


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## Ed (Feb 9, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> Don't quite get that either though... the product is done, recorded, edited, bought and paid for, it now just sits on a server. Surely you don't make things better by pulling it completely? How does this cut your losses, even if it's true? Same with warez... sure it bad that it is pirated (come on, let's see some digital watermark butt kicking) but you don't help any by withdrawing the legitimate product and leaving it 100% piracy.



Especially if it is already pirated, then you loose legitimate sales. Hmm, I think we've already been over this one before  Assuming this is the reason Req Lite was taken down of course.


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## tslesicki (Feb 9, 2011)

Wow, I thought it was custom watermarked for every user? How stupid (and ignorant) does one have to be to share samplesò u   »~Ù u   »9


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 9, 2011)

Not sure how this is "off topic" for sample library discussion. I really would like a comment from Troels or someone at Tonehammer, and it's less likely to happen here.... I don't know what to make of it all, I really don't... such a high profile product advertised loudly here for months. Personally I'd love something from the horses mouth to the effect that "something will take it's place at some point".

I guess we're in danger of jumping to conclusions with the piracy thing - we don't know why it was pulled. I wish piracy was something that could be more freely discussed here though, I always get the impression that even saying the word is taboo which doesn't seem terribly grown up. Of course piracy is wrong, but it affects us all, discussing something to try to understand or combat it isn't remotely the same as condoning it.


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## gsilbers (Feb 9, 2011)

OH THE HUMANITY!! >8o o/~ 


hope tonehammer can go after the one who uploaded/craked it with the digital watermark they have on their new products... that way it can show THaT community to watch out. 

but yes.. now we pay for it... i mean... we dont pay for it as its not available anymore.


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## synergy543 (Feb 9, 2011)

If you can't beat 'em - join 'em. Yup...

I think Tonnehammer should join the pirates and flood the torrents with lovely samples that suddenly hit full 0dB for a few seconds.


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## Daniel James (Feb 9, 2011)

I am guessing this was moved off topic because they wanted the thread buried perhaps? 

Do the administrators of this forum have any affiliation or connection with Tonehammer at all? If so I can see drawing negative attention away from a company who just released a new library as a smart business move....just a bit annoying for those concerned consumers.

EDIT: Just on the topic of clever business moves....IF the library was pulled for piracy, where is the sense in pulling the legit version? I mean Requiem Lite was priced very reasonably, and within the budget of low budget composers....now that the cheaper option has been removed and only the more expensive version remains, would this not push said composers down the piracy route, as it has already been pirated? food for thought.


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 9, 2011)

Didn't Fredrick say that piracy was NOT the reason it was pulled?


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## tslesicki (Feb 9, 2011)

Well, maybe they want to announce a new version - Requiem Super-Light, $99 and all three mic positions


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## gsilbers (Feb 9, 2011)

synergy543 @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> If you can't beat 'em - join 'em. Yup...
> 
> I think Tonnehammer should join the pirates and flood the torrents with lovely samples that suddenly hit full 0dB for a few seconds.




i agree.

flood them with several wrong versions that have silence audio files, noise audio files, 
bad installer etc and keep posting in the pirate forums that those versions work.


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## MacQ (Feb 9, 2011)

Requiem Light was a bargain. I gambled on it, having been so-so on my previous Tonehammer purchases, and though it wasn't what I'd expected, I still have managed to use it in a LOT of recent music. So much so that I pre-ordered Liberis, and I'm looking forward to using that in a lot of stuff, too.

That's always the gamble with Pro/Light versions of products, I guess. Price-point wise, I wonder what the magic number is? On a related note ... I wonder how many Hollywood Strings Diamond SKU's they've been selling since HS Gold was introduced ...

My guess would be that Gold far outsells, but then that's just based on the people I know who bought Gold. Sample development is a risky endeavour, but I think if the mindset is to develop what you see missing in your own template, then the rewards are greater than financial. At least, hopefully.

~Stu


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## nikolas (Feb 9, 2011)

I know there's huge love here (and everywhere in fact) for Troels and tonehammer, but let's relax and let the man do his best. I mean after 30+ different libraries, at great prices we can be certain he's doing everything possible to keep himself, the team and us happy! Which is a difficult task either way! 

If Lite was pulled back, it was for whatever reason Troels feels there is and there's nothing more to it! I'm curious as well and I'd love to have bought it, but I can't cry over spilled milk now, can I?

(Back to composing, sorry I'm being like that... too damn tired... too much work... to little compensation in relation to the amount of work... I swear I'll get a ghost writer and perhaps a ghost teacher as well! :D)


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## jlb (Feb 9, 2011)

nikolas @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> I know there's huge love here (and everywhere in fact) for Troels and tonehammer, but let's relax and let the man do his best. I mean after 30+ different libraries, at great prices we can be certain he's doing everything possible to keep himself, the team and us happy! Which is a difficult task either way!
> 
> If Lite was pulled back, it was for whatever reason Troels feels there is and there's nothing more to it! I'm curious as well and I'd love to have bought it, but I can't cry over spilled milk now, can I?
> 
> (Back to composing, sorry I'm being like that... too damn tired... too much work... to little compensation in relation to the amount of work... I swear I'll get a ghost writer and perhaps a ghost teacher as well! :D)



Yes I agree with that, I think the quality of Tonehammer is fantastic, they just need to communicate better with their customers

jlb


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## jlb (Feb 9, 2011)

Troels I think your stuff is fantastic quality. Just communicate with the customers. Requiem is amazing, I had told several of my friends that Lite was a steal at $299 and unfortunately they missed it. If I were you I would do a really good deal on the full version or the new one, then you will win these people back. If you annoy your own customers you are dead in the water. Unless you are Apple Computers, they annoy me all the time. 

jlb


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## Daniel James (Feb 9, 2011)

Well its a shame its gone, I was actually lining up to buy the Requiem Lite for a project I have soon....was actually waiting for the money to come through from a client. The Pro version of it is far to bloated and expensive for what I need so I guess its a lost sale from me but hey I'm just one fish in a big pond.

Some prior warning would have been nice though, rather than the sudden pull, I might have been able to push for my budget money.


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 9, 2011)

Daniel James @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> Some prior warning would have been nice though



That's the thing, eh? Most odd, especially if the decision was taken a while ago.

Thanks for commenting, Troels. I can't say as I understand though I'm sure you have your reasons... I hope that things change in the future, there'll be people waiting if and when you do.

In the meantime, it goes without saying that if you get a chance to nail someone for piracy then GET IN.


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## midphase (Feb 9, 2011)

You guys don't think that Tonehammer will release some Requiem Light/Liberis Light combo?

Surely they're thinking way ahead of everyone around here and will come out with some slick new product for everyone to enjoy at a reasonable price.


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## RiffWraith (Feb 9, 2011)

midphase @ Thu Feb 10 said:


> You guys don't think that Tonehammer will release some Requiem Light/Liberis Light combo?.



Yep - someone already brough that possibility up in this thread, and I too was thinking the same thing. Would be a nice thing to see.


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## TheUnfinished (Feb 10, 2011)

If there's to be a Requiem/Liberis Light combo, I really really really hope people who already have Requiem Light can take advantage*.

I don't think Requiem Light can have been pulled because of the pirating can it? Because surely the purpose of watermarking is that it CAN be pirated easily but the pirater can equally easily be discovered and leapt on.

*Except for one person obviously, if I understand Troels' comments correctly!


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## NYC Composer (Feb 10, 2011)

"As this is presently a legal matter, our attorneys have asked us not to comment publicly. Thank you for your kind words, and we'll release a statement as soon as it becomes feasible."*

(*NOT an official statement, just one I made up as a test run.)


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## Peaslee (Feb 11, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> Don't quite get that either though... the product is done, recorded, edited, bought and paid for, it now just sits on a server.



That's actually not true for "Powered-By-Kontakt" libraries. Each serial carries an up-front license fee that we must purchase in bulk. That aside, we chose not to re-order a new batch when we ran out this month for a variety of important technical reasons. Everything factored into the decision. We've been exploring the Player for about a year to see if it worked for us and I think we're more or less coming to a conclusion on that experiment. A lot of the "mystery" going on at Tonehammer right now has more to do with that. Requiem Light is just the most obvious. 

Requiem Light is a powerful tool, in that it's a simple and efficient stereo mix that doesn't compromise sound quality or playability. A lot of time went into mixing and optimizing it, so we aren't abandoning it by any means. It won't be attached to Liberis or anything else very soon, but there's a good possibility that were not entirely finished with it as a block of content. That being said, Requiem Light was never it's own beast, by design or intent. Requiem (Pro) is the source and the real embodiment of what we set out to build. 

I will say that if you look at the shear depth and quality of content in Requiem Pro, $649 is one *hell* of a deal and we're honestly very satisfied that it fits with the affordable nature and ethos of our whole shop. There's nothing even remotely close out there, in terms of value. It ain't cheap, but it wasn't easy to build. It's not for everybody, but it does what it does better than anything else. Liberis directly follows in the spirit and philosophy of Requiem Pro. 

We've also now got a bundle deal on them together that puts them at a price below anything in their class, in terms of scope, quality, versatility and plain old value. Together, they're less expensive than any other single current generation choir library by itself.

http://www.tonehammer.com/?p=6362


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## snowleopard (Feb 11, 2011)

Nice to see the bundle deal, and hopefully we'll see some sort of new "light" integration in the future that's watermarked as well.


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 11, 2011)

Hi Peaslee, thanks hugely for your post, and sure it's beginning to make a little more sense to me now.

The Kontakt library issue is interesting. I like the library format, but since I discovered that any non-powered-by-Kontakt library can be put into a subfolder of the Kontakt core library, it's not a critical issue for me personally. If it's a major grief-causer for devs, I wouldn't be too sorry to see it go.

And of course you're right - the price of the full version (and the Liberis bundle) is very good. It's just a plain fact though that something at under half the price is always going to attract a sector of the market that the big brothers won't. Again, only speaking for me personally, I very rarely make use of multiple mic positions, and I always prefer well-mastered downmixed 16 bit libs too (I appreciate Requiem Lite was 24) - when Lite refers to resource use as opposed to content, it's a huge plus for me.

All in all, glad to hear that the product may resurface in some way shape or form in the future. Probably not what you guys want to hear, but if a 16 bit, 1 mic position version of the bundle ever materialised for a price as competitive as Requiem Lite used to be, my credit card would be out of my pocket without me even realising I'd done it!

Thanks again for pitching in.


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## Hardy Heern (Feb 12, 2011)

I just received the Tonehammer Newsletter this morning with offers on Requiem. _Too _costly for a mere, time limited, amateur like me, so I went to their website to remind myself of how much Requiem Lite was. I had been tempted with this one but could I find it? Could I hell! (Tonehammer- May I, respectfully, suggest that you just put up a single sentence saying discontinued, to be re-issued, or whatever, to save wasting time....Thank you.)

So I came here and searched and found this thread. I'm quite shocked that it was withdrawn after such a short time....I did start wondering if I'd been imagining it; another reason why I visited their website! It would be a shame if it's gone forever as it sounded really good to my ears but then, again, as others have mentioned, EWQL S Choirs are becoming more affordable too.

I'd also like to see *'Requiem Lite 2- The Real Thing'*...I guess we'll just have to hang around chewing our nails until there's news.

It's alright saying $650 is a hell of a deal (and I'm SURE it is) but that doesn't really matter. It's likes saying that a cabin cruiser is fantastic value at $5.3m but if it's more than you want, need or can justify it's irrelevant.....except for information.

Just so that I feel that I'm, _also_, one of the in-crowd, I have to say that _my _solictor has, _also_, restricted what I can reveal on this matter...for the time being....let's just say that there could be an IP issue.....or any number of other issues; to be fair. That's all I can say at the moment.


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 17, 2011)

I'd have bought Requiem Lite today for a project - Symphonic Choirs is much better than it was, but still pretty cumbersome in use.

Just sayin'.


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## NYC Composer (Feb 17, 2011)

I had figured Requiem Lite into my limited budget this year as well. I'm a bit disappointed, but I get the sense they have good reasons for the withdrawal. Life goes on.


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 17, 2011)

NYC Composer @ Thu Feb 17 said:


> I had figured Requiem Lite into my limited budget this year as well. I'm a bit disappointed, but I get the sense they have good reasons for the withdrawal. Life goes on.



Sure... big gap in the market though, isn't there?

COUGH voxos lite COUGH


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## NYC Composer (Feb 17, 2011)

FWIW, I don't find SC particularly cumbersome anymore. The WB fix was pretty dramatic. Still, it sorta is what it is, what with no legato etc.


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## jlb (Feb 17, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Sat Feb 12 said:


> Hi Peaslee, thanks hugely for your post, and sure it's beginning to make a little more sense to me now.
> 
> The Kontakt library issue is interesting. I like the library format, but since I discovered that any non-powered-by-Kontakt library can be put into a subfolder of the Kontakt core library, it's not a critical issue for me personally. If it's a major grief-causer for devs, I wouldn't be too sorry to see it go.
> 
> ...



Guy, I'm really interested in what you said 'since I discovered that any non-powered-by-Kontakt library can be put into a subfolder of the Kontakt core library'.

Do you mean the Kontact libraries that cannot be loaded in the Library tab, the ones that don't come with the Kontakt player? How can you make these accessible through the core library tab?

jlb


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 17, 2011)

Larry - oh don't get me wrong, it's waaay better. But I still had to restart after unfreezing the track as Play went bonkers, and I had to change every votox E as it kept going piiiiiiiiiing. And all round - mainly cos I was in a rush - it didn't sound ultra-convincing.

jlb - yes, exactly. What I have is a folder in the Kontakt 4 library directory called 3rd Party, and then put all the other small libraries in there, but you could just put folders right in that first level - Cinesamples, Tonehammer etc. Then next time you use the Kontakt library browser, there they are - simple as that.


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## jlb (Feb 17, 2011)

That's a great tip, thanks guy! :D 

jlb


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 28, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Thu Feb 17 said:


> jlb - yes, exactly. What I have is a folder in the Kontakt 4 library directory called 3rd Party, and then put all the other small libraries in there, but you could just put folders right in that first level - Cinesamples, Tonehammer etc. Then next time you use the Kontakt library browser, there they are - simple as that.



Along the same lines, I put my other Cinesamples libraries inside HWW so they are accessible from the library pane.


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## snowleopard (Mar 3, 2011)

As to Tonehammer having to deal with pirates, as it seems the watermarking has indeed worked, I'd suggest they just announce that virtually all their libraries will be watermarked in the future. Which one's are and aren't? You guess! And if you guess wrong, our attorneys will eventually be in touch.


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## germancomponist (Mar 3, 2011)

synergy543 @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> If you can't beat 'em - join 'em. Yup...
> 
> I think Tonnehammer should join the pirates and flood the torrents with lovely samples that suddenly hit full 0dB for a few seconds.



+1


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## Reegs (Mar 3, 2011)

germancomponist @ Thu Mar 03 said:


> synergy543 @ Wed Feb 09 said:
> 
> 
> > If you can't beat 'em - join 'em. Yup...
> ...



:lol: 

+2

Or put a line in the scripting to play this at random:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AzpByR3MvI


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