# The new new mac pro



## Soundhound (Apr 8, 2017)

We lost the short thread on this, so thought I'd start another one. How are people feeling about the news? Anyone reconsidering plans in light of the next mac pro coming in 2018 or maybe 2019?

I'm thinking of sitting tight till it comes out. I am getting some USB overload issues with my current setup though (have way too much going on...) So I'm considering swapping out my two iMacs (a 2012 that runs everything and a 2010 that's really just a monitor now) for a 2015 so I can get 64 gigs of RAM onboard until the new mac pro arrives. RAM is pretty expensive now and would cost 1/2 again as much as the 2015 itself... My plans change weekly...


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## byzantium (Apr 8, 2017)

a 2015 what?


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## Nmargiotta (Apr 8, 2017)

I have a late 2012 (when they went to the thinner body) iMac, maxed out processor and 32Gb of Ram. It's workig out well for me still, especially since moving to a TB bay with SSDs but I'm for sure going to pickup the new Mac Pro when it debuts next year. Sata 3 SSDs work but it's all about PCI-E SSDs where the read/ writes are in the 2500-3000 MB/s and with the talks of the Mac Pro being modular and expandable it makes the most sense for me to wait. Plus my iMac still gets on for my projects. What issues are you facing now with the 2012?


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## Soundhound (Apr 8, 2017)

Doh! iMac.



byzantium said:


> a 2015 what?


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## byzantium (Apr 8, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> Doh! iMac.



As a previous poster says, what issues do you have? Would VEPro be an option across your two existing iMacs? (e.g. run the DAW on the 2010 and samples/kontakt/synths on the 2012?), or are you doing that already? Another option might be a 2017 iMac if a rumour is true and they emerge in Oct/Nov.


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## Soundhound (Apr 8, 2017)

<<As a previous poster says, what issues do you have? Would VEPro be an option across your two existing iMacs? (e.g. run the DAW on the 2010 and samples/kontakt/synths on the 2012?), or are you doing that already? Another option might be a 2017 iMac if a rumour is true and they emerge in Oct/Nov.>>

Things sometimes drop off, drives, etc. I moved things around recently and it's been happening much less. Just feels like I'm pushing the envelope with the 2012 iMac.

I do use VEPro to lower cpu usage in Logic and all works fine. I used to use the 2nd iMac to serve up libraries, but I've been doing more purging, working with 32gigs in the 2012 iMac, and just using the 2nd iMac as a monitor. The issues I've been having I think are with overloading the busses in general. between the 2 thunderbolt and 4 usb buses I'm running

2nd iMac display (DisplayPort via thunderbolt)
2 blackmagic ssd docks (8 ssds altogether)
Drobo for backups (usb)
Dell monitor (3rd monitor, running hdmi via thunderbolt)
nektar keyboard (usb)
m-audio mini keyboard for keyswitching etc.
nektar p1 controller (usb)
ilok and vienna key
a small Asus usb driven monitor - really for travel but it sits around when not traveling and nice to have hooked up. but I think this may put a lot of strain on its usb bus.
External drive set up for time machine backups
Then there are some drives I have for 2nd/3rd backups that I only mount when I'm running chronosync to update them

I've got two thunderbolt hubs, the owc and a cal digit.


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## byzantium (Apr 8, 2017)

So drive and connection problems rather than music CPU issues. Yeah sorry don't know enough about it, perhaps something to do with all your displays and the graphics capabilities on the boards, sorry I don't know enough. Have you tried running without the iMac display?


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## Soundhound (Apr 8, 2017)

No worries, I wasn't really looking to solve that stuff here, but I do appreciate the help! I was more looking for what people are thinking about how any plans for current/future setups might be affected by the news of the new new mac pro (whenever that might happen). I do feel like I'm just asking too much of my current iMac though.


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## Nathanael Iversen (Apr 8, 2017)

Sadly for Apple, they lost me at the trashcan. I've moved on to PC and Cubase and no plans to look back. Paying a premium for Apple hardware is no longer part of the main composing rig equation. I still use a MBP for laptop, but once MSFT gets decent battery life in the Surface, I'll switch. The Surfaces are nice, and the touch is not gimicky.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 8, 2017)

The problem is that you have to use Windows instead of OS X. That's the deal-breaker for me.


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## sostenuto (Apr 8, 2017)

Unsurprising, sleazy, Apple announcement to try to slow customer leakage after many poor Desktop decisions over years. Took one look inside iMac, long ago, .... spoiled my lunch. 

Running (3) higher-end Win 10 Pro/64 PC(s) now and totally covered in event of failure. Total cost less than (1) Mac Pro. 

Apple Phone Company now in 'reactive' mode and that is seldom a 'good' thing .......


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## MChangoM (Apr 8, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> mac pro coming in 2018 or maybe 2019?



Not sooner? This is a solved problem. Apple can't put something powerful and flexible (and, yes, stylish) together before the end of the year? Or do they a need another year or two to innovate their a**?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 8, 2017)

sostenuto and MChangoM, I think your viewing angles are maybe a little harsh.

Companies can't only lead, even Apple when Steve Jobs was around. Sometimes they have to react to what people want, and this is a good example.

They said straight out that they designed themselves into a corner with the black Mac. People are starting to grumble about moving to Windows, that probably took them by surprise based on the number of sales of Mac Pros, so they made the announcement that they're working on a modular Mac Pro. They don't make commodity computers; the kinds of machines they make take a while to design, and if they say it's going to take more than a year, I think they know how long it takes to develop. Who knows what a modular Mac Pro is, but it sounds like the right idea.

Now, my reaction as soon as I read about this was that they should come out with a Mac Pro Classic that uses the Al case. But even that takes a lot more than snapping their fingers, plus they'd have to tool up again and so on.

This isn't the same thing as getting a case, board, power supply, etc. the way people do with PCs.

Apple does an excellent job with a lot of products, from their soon-to-be discontinued routers to their long-discontinued 30" Cinema Display , and their software (especially OS X) is great.

***
The other side of that is that - as I keep grousing - someone high up is making bad product decisions. They made the perfect keyboard and then phaffed it up with an "improved" one that sucks whale dingus. The keyboard on the current MacBook is horrible. Removing the headphone jack from the iPhone is not phi beta kappa. The 16GB MacBook Pro with that strip was a disappointment for me and a lot of people. I shouldn't have had to go to the used market for the two Macs I bought recently to replace aging ones - even though they're great.

And the worst thing: Tim Cook held a fundraiser for Paul Ryan, the attempted murderer. I was tempted to sell everything they made after hearing about that.

So it's not like they're infallible. But they do far more things right than wrong.

And no, I'm not switching to Windows. I like my Windows slaves, but that's enough for me.


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## Puzzlefactory (Apr 8, 2017)

Funnily enough, this announcement has made me start checking out refurbished second hand "silver" Mac pros. 

You can pick up a 6 core 32gig one for around £1000 which isn't bad IMO


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## Soundhound (Apr 8, 2017)

If the 5,1's were to become even less expensive than currently, I wonder if they start to become good options for slaves? (though gigantic, we'll all start needing machine rooms)


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## jononotbono (Apr 9, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> I wonder if they start to become good options for slaves?



Mine is definitely going to be turned into a slave once the new Mac Pros get released. Can't wait to see what the bring out!


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## Red (Apr 9, 2017)

Hmm... Do you guys think the price drop is a good access point? Or is the hardware just outdated now.

The new modular mac pro sounds cool, but I bet it's going to be more like 2020. (That really feels like the future)

I'm working on a MacBook pro from late 2013 with external monitor and hubs. If the next buy is 3 years down the road, an upgrade sounds pretty good.


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## MChangoM (Apr 9, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The problem is that you have to use Windows instead of OS X. That's the deal-breaker for me.



The deal-breaker, non-starter, keeps-me-up-at-night is to have my *livelihood *dependent on a company that makes me an increasingly lower priority.


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## muk (Apr 9, 2017)

If you are looking for a nice but terribly overpriced desktop solution, I have to say that I find the Microsoft Surface Studio much more exciting than the trashcan (and probably trashcan reloaded). Microsoft more exciting than Apple - I think that's a first.


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## mc_deli (Apr 9, 2017)

Red said:


> Hmm... Do you guys think the price drop is a good access point? Or is the hardware just outdated now.
> 
> The new modular mac pro sounds cool, but I bet it's going to be more like 2020. (That really feels like the future)
> 
> I'm working on a MacBook pro from late 2013 with external monitor and hubs. If the next buy is 3 years down the road, an upgrade sounds pretty good.



I have a 2015 rMBP and the price drop on the 6 core nMP is very attractive.
Key factors for me are: I don't really want to pay the richest company in the world more money when they are so good at exploiting tax loopholes. The NewNewMP might be 18 months+ away and might be €€€€how much??? nobody knows. But I think they could put an awfully high premium on an ultimate modular nnMP - starting at what 5k, 6k who knows... and that would be out of my range.

A 6 core nMP with 64gb of OWC ram and a BM multidock for my existing SSDs is a very attractive proposition. Machine, ram, multidock coming out at around €4.5k is still mental money. 

I want a snappier system. I want every action to be faster. 4.5k seems like a lot to pay but I am still considering...


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## byzantium (Apr 9, 2017)

Might a 2017 iMac if it arrives in Oct/Nov (rumour) be an alternative and cheaper option than the current reduced-price 6-core 2013 nMP (considering the display), with potentially comparable or better performance out of one box (SSDs via TB, 64GB RAM), considering our audio applications are extremely CPU-speed hungry?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 9, 2017)

Mchango, seriously? *That* is what keeps you up at night?!

To me it sounds like monsters in the closet, but to each his own.


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## kunst91 (Apr 9, 2017)

New modular mac sounds cool, I'm just worried that it will be a high core/low clock speed machine (which seems to be sub-optimal for daw performance) since the new generation of xeons seems to be moving in that direction.

Going to build a $1600 i7-7700k and see how that compares to my trashcan. If I like it, I may bid apple adieu. I will miss logic dearly, so it better be good


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## procreative (Apr 9, 2017)

Computers are like 5 lane motorways, add more power and you will soon find a way to use it all.

My first Mac had no hard drive and ran off a floppy disk (and the Single Density kind too). As far as RAM I think it had about 500KB.

Now with all the bloated code, the system takes GB of space filled with a lot of superfluous functions.

I'm still running a 2009 Mac Pro and due to its modularity been able to up the RAM, Processor, SATA etc. Sure its not as fast as the latest Trashcans but its good enough. A 2009/10 can be had with pretty decent specs for £800-1000.


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## byzantium (Apr 9, 2017)

kunst91 said:


> New modular mac sounds cool, I'm just worried that it will be a high core/low clock speed machine (which seems to be sub-optimal for daw performance) since the new generation of xeons seems to be moving in that direction.



Which is why I was thinking a new iMac might turn out to be a serious contender if you want stick with mac/logic/OSX.


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## MChangoM (Apr 9, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Mchango, seriously? *That* is what keeps you up at night?!
> 
> To me it sounds like monsters in the closet, but to each his own.



It was a tongue-in-cheek response to your "Windows is a deal-breaker" position. Sorry, I'll try to be more direct in the future. It does not keep me up at night because I switched my desktop to Windows several years ago after waiting forever for a cheese grater refresh. I still use a MacBook Air for field work, but for heavy lifting, a powerful, reliable, fault-tolerant PC that I built to my exact specs and can upgrade in myriad ways helps me sleep very well at night.

I am often under very tight deadlines for projects that require a very powerful computer (CPU, RAM, and graphics - some music composition, but mostly 4K video editing, VFX, 3D, and compositing) with a high penalty for not delivering on time (and sometimes bonuses for delivering early). The operating system could never be the deal-breaker for me; there are way too many other critical factors.

Nick, unless your DAW only runs on the Mac, what exactly is there about Windows that makes it such a deal-breaker for you?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 9, 2017)

I'm very glad you were kidding!

The thing about Macs is that they're pleasant to work on. That's why I like them.

I use Logic, which is only on Mac, and Pro Tools, which runs on both. If it were just DAWs I wouldn't really mind, but I wouldn't like having to use Windows for everything. It's more that I like Macs than that I dislike Windows.


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## FriFlo (Apr 9, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> It's more that I like Macs ...


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## byzantium (Apr 9, 2017)

Oh dear, you have it bad...!


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## Puzzlefactory (Apr 9, 2017)

procreative said:


> Computers are like 5 lane motorways, add more power and you will soon find a way to use it all.
> 
> My first Mac had no hard drive and ran off a floppy disk (and the Single Density kind too). As far as RAM I think it had about 500KB.
> 
> ...



My thoughts exactly.


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## Puzzlefactory (Apr 9, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I'm very glad you were kidding!
> 
> The thing about Macs is that they're pleasant to work on. That's why I like them.
> 
> I use Logic, which is only on Mac, and Pro Tools, which runs on both. If it were just DAWs I wouldn't really mind, but I wouldn't like having to use Windows for everything. It's more that I like Macs than that I dislike Windows.



For me, I dislike windows. Mostly because of the stuff that seems to randomly stop working and you have to stop what you're doing for an hour or so to hunt down a random driver on the interwebz, for a component in the machine that seemed to work fine yesterday etc etc. 

Never seem to have that problem with OSX. Constantly seem to have that problem with Windows 10...


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## NoamL (Apr 9, 2017)

Any Logic user (myself included) should be worried about the future.

The sources of concern are essentially the same before and after the press meet. Logic is still a very peripheral bit of Apple compared to Avid's PT or Steinberg's CB. The Apple Pro market is still tiny (no, MBP's don't count). The new MP still hasn't had any details announced. Logic still doesn't work on PC and never will.

All this presser was, was Apple saying "We're really concerned about people uprooting and going to PC." Good let em be concerned.


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## Daniel James (Apr 9, 2017)

My trashcan is still working like a treat for me. Only reason I upgraded at all was because Thundrbolt had enough hardware supoort that it was a viable investment. If the new ones have nothing worth investing in I personally am happy to stick with what I have. I work in such a way that I rarely am maxing out the system.

Macs seem built to last so I am most certainly interested, buts its Apple so im also super nervous. I hope they dont pull an typical Apple and remove things that people need like they did with the phones and laptops. ie "Think how much you will save on your energy bill when you buy our new MacPro new with 100% less power sockets #courage"

-DJ


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## URL (Apr 10, 2017)

OS X (Yosemite) is the most stable system I ever had, but to pay 3 times more for a Mac Pro with old spec isn't my way to secure a daw for the future, when the spec for the old trashcan is out of date you can't load a new OS X and what are one doing then, us it for a one more Mac slave ?

Okey there sometimes problem with all daw system and Pc is a little unstable until you know how to fix it-but there is som much depending on the software companies willing to update there software.

My pc daw with vep6/kontakt5.6.6/3 dsp cards system work flawless after a small hell and I'm not waiting for a new Mac pro that cost 3 times more for a modular system...what is that in Apple world?
I never had so much computer power today and its working with over 700 hundred (1 pc daw+Pcslave) tracks template if I us it fully.
And I can mix ITB without having pops and clicks....

I have 3 Apple computer (and they aren't that old) that I can't load the latest OS X-and that is not okey.


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## Puzzlefactory (Apr 10, 2017)

That is frustrating that Apple don't support older machines, but I don't think the problem is that bad. 

When I've been looking at second hand Mac pros, the 2010 models support the latest OS and they're 7 years old. 

That coupled with the fact that software developers still support older OS's for a while after they've been updated, means that a Mac will still last you a long while after Apple stop supporting it.

(Assuming that is you feel the need to constantly update your system).


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## PeterKorcek (Apr 10, 2017)

I like my macbook pro as a notebook (3 and half years and never had a problem! + OS is nice - still on Mavericks btw).
I will be awaiting and reading a lot about new mac pro when it comes - always intrigued by new technologies.
However, at the moment my PC with Win 10 (custom PC is almost 3 years old and never had a problem!) is just fine - no concerns. People saying it is unstable... I think it is individual, how much you know about PCs in general and what you do with them. I have it all - games, videos, audio, DAW, various files - try to keep it organised and clean and you minimise the risk of faultiness. I like both Mac and PC (at the moment for different reasons)


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## URL (Apr 10, 2017)

No ones don't need to upgrade computer system constantly, but there is a need for speed so to speak when plugins and sampling lib is more demanding of your computer setup and if something is not going as ones should, one update ones plugins and not the OS. When ones push the daw system to the limit theres always room for error.

I'm been using Logic for years and now my Mac Pro walked over the wrong timeline and I can't use Logic anymore,of course if I buy a old Mac pro/IMac I could Install the latest OS X, sorry but my Mac Pro could easily do some work in latest Logic but no that is not possible anymore.

So I choose a other path.

When ones push the hell out of ones computer with dsp cards and plugins there is alway something that is old and need a upgrade.
When I walked over to Pc from Mac I had not used Pc for years and was a "new born rookie" in Pc world, but I got there fast enough to understand what to do to get my system to work.
But its not always about the user...as ones know.


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## procreative (Apr 10, 2017)

All you can hope is to squeeze as much life as you can out of an older Mac, there comes a time where Apple will lock out the latest OS from certain Macs. So at that point you can stop upgrading or change Mac.

Usually you can keep on with an older OS, the only issue is with 3rd party software. For instance a while back Kontakt stopped installing on Mac OSX Leopard. Fine unless you want to use the latest libraries as some only release based on the latest version.

Then eventually you run into hardware issues, parts failing, peripherals not supported etc.

Its a vicious cycle, one way or the other unless you are prepared to stick to what you have eventually it all ends up as doorstops.

Cannot count the amount of Macs, Scanners, Printers, Monitor Calibrators I have consigned to computer heaven over the years.


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## URL (Apr 10, 2017)

Multiple Lanes/or other functions today in Logic needs a new Mac that runs on a new OS X- Mac seems even more expensive for a today desire function. To many door stop now-hard time open the door.


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## Puzzlefactory (Apr 10, 2017)

Multiple lanes you need a new Mac?

Just how old a machine are you talking about?


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## URL (Apr 10, 2017)

Mac Pro 2009 and multiple lanes and that was a example, I chosen Cb9 that have a little "extra" that I want my daw to handle. If I decide to keep with Mac Pro/Logic I have to wait for update on Logic and still have one old Machine and Apple released a new OS X that didn't benefit my setup so...


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## whinecellar (Apr 10, 2017)

^ Kind of agree. For those of us who remember how responsive Logic used to be, it's all a moot point until they optimize it for current hardware. The audio engine is fine, but the overall GUI is so ridiculously slow compared to Logic 9 it's maddening over the course of a long day. It's gotten significantly better since Logic X first shipped, but doing just about anything with multiple editors makes the GUI painfully slow.

I'm sure some will say "it's fine for me" and maybe you don't care about the laggy GUI - but I have yet to see any installation of Logic X on any machine that is anywhere near as responsive as Logic 9 was. I've been documenting this with some of the development team for quite a while, so hopefully it's high on the priority list. There's just no explanation for a current app to be so much slower than a version that's 4 years old and not even supported...

(note I'm on a full 4K display so it's more of an issue)


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## Ashermusic (Apr 10, 2017)

whinecellar said:


> ^ Kind of agree. For those of us who remember how responsive Logic used to be, it's all a moot point until they optimize it for current hardware. The audio engine is fine, but the overall GUI is so ridiculously slow compared to Logic 9 it's maddening over the course of a long day. It's gotten significantly better since Logic X first shipped, but doing just about anything with multiple editors makes the GUI painfully slow.
> 
> I'm sure some will say "it's fine for me" and maybe you don't care about the laggy GUI - but I have yet to see any installation of Logic X on any machine that is anywhere near as responsive as Logic 9 was. I've been documenting this with some of the development team for quite a while, so hopefully it's high on the priority list. There's just no explanation for a current app to be so much slower than a version that's 4 years old and not even supported...
> 
> (note I'm on a full 4K display so it's more of an issue)



Simply true. It doesn't bother me that much, but it does exist.


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## Puzzlefactory (Apr 10, 2017)

whinecellar said:


> ^ Kind of agree. For those of us who remember how responsive Logic used to be, it's all a moot point until they optimize it for current hardware. The audio engine is fine, but the overall GUI is so ridiculously slow compared to Logic 9 it's maddening over the course of a long day. It's gotten significantly better since Logic X first shipped, but doing just about anything with multiple editors makes the GUI painfully slow.
> 
> I'm sure some will say "it's fine for me" and maybe you don't care about the laggy GUI - but I have yet to see any installation of Logic X on any machine that is anywhere near as responsive as Logic 9 was. I've been documenting this with some of the development team for quite a while, so hopefully it's high on the priority list. There's just no explanation for a current app to be so much slower than a version that's 4 years old and not even supported...
> 
> (note I'm on a full 4K display so it's more of an issue)




Now that you mention it, I do seem to notice Logic "glitching out" a bit when I have multiple windows open. I always just put it down to not haveing a very powerful machine.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 10, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Simply true. It doesn't bother me that much, but it does exist.




Actually, Jim et al. I got curious so I just opened both LP 9 and LP X in my iMac and switched screensets and with the Ultra HD 4k TV hooked up, there is practically no difference in the lag when switching screensets between the two.


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## samphony (Apr 10, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Actually, Jim et al. I got curious so I just opened both LP 9 and LP X in my iMac and switched screensets and with the Ultra HD 4k TV hooked up, there is practically no difference in the lag when switching screensets between the two.


I think Jim was talking about when opening LP9 in snow leopard 10.6.x it's ridiculously fast compared to 10.11 or 10.12 and LPX.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 10, 2017)

samphony said:


> I think Jim was talking about when opening LP9 in snow leopard 10.6.x it's ridiculously fast compared to 10.11 or 10.12 and LPX.



Ah. so then it's an OS issue more than a Logic one.


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## Soundhound (Apr 10, 2017)

Also interested to hear this about slow/laggy gpu issue with multiple editors. I notice slow/irregular/unreliable updating of the piano roll when just switching regions in the track window from time to time. I had gotten used to all this, and also assumed it was not having enough cpu headroom.

Thanks for this last batch of posts guys. It's the kind of perspective I was hoping for with this thread. Apple's my way or the highway pov, oupled with their deep hardware/software integration made for an ease of use that was always unique to the industry. The downside is and always was lousy integration with the rest of the world. Case in point a set of AirPods I got for my birthday recently. They're pretty great for non music work (while jogging, listening to podcasts while cooking and not driving the wife insane etc.) but when using with a non apple product (samsung tv in this case), there's no way to control the volume. Seriously? So I use only one of them in that case, and hang it farther out of my ear so it doesn't deafen. How 'doesn't just work' is that?

Once Apple became a giant company, I think that exacerbated the problem. Now it was no longer an iconoclastic free thinking company, but a battleship that is hard to turn and slow to react. But the biggest change I think was when Jobs died. He was by all accounts an awful person, but brilliant, I think he knew better than anyone currently running things how important it was for apple to have people creating things on the machines. 

Regardless, I've been using Macs for so long (I also had a Mac with floppy drives and 512, maybe even 128k of ram) it will take a lot to get me to switch. I'm going to maybe get a refurbished or used (always) 2015 iMac for more ram headroom or maybe a 2013, and see what the next gen turns out to be.

But I think I might also try one of those small PCs as a slave, and start to learn if I can stand dealing with windows. I used to use Windows when freelancing at places (not for years, you can always use your own laptop now) and hated every minute of it. Maybe it's less onerous now.




whinecellar said:


> ^ Kind of agree. For those of us who remember how responsive Logic used to be, it's all a moot point until they optimize it for current hardware. The audio engine is fine, but the overall GUI is so ridiculously slow compared to Logic 9 it's maddening over the course of a long day. It's gotten significantly better since Logic X first shipped, but doing just about anything with multiple editors makes the GUI painfully slow.
> 
> I'm sure some will say "it's fine for me" and maybe you don't care about the laggy GUI - but I have yet to see any installation of Logic X on any machine that is anywhere near as responsive as Logic 9 was. I've been documenting this with some of the development team for quite a while, so hopefully it's high on the priority list. There's just no explanation for a current app to be so much slower than a version that's 4 years old and not even supported...
> 
> (note I'm on a full 4K display so it's more of an issue)


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## whinecellar (Apr 10, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Ah. so then it's an OS issue more than a Logic one.



Nope, *not* an OS issue. I'm on El Cap (10.11.x) at the moment, and I can open an identical project – either a real one with actual content or a blank slate with a bunch of empty tracks - and everything on Logic 9.1.8 is INSTANT. Zero lag whatsoever & completely fluid when resizing or opening any window, multiple editors, etc., even at full 4K resolution. Logic 10.3.1 on the other hand lags terribly when opening a mixer or piano roll pane, resizing a window, changing screen sets, etc., and it really seems to hate the score window for some reason, both as an integrated editor and as a separate window.

I've seen the same behavior on multiple machines, and even done a basic set up at Apple stores with a stock installation of Logic - same thing. And this is all on current high and hardware. I have noticed it's much worse on HDPI resolutions, but even on standard, Logic X is just painfully syrupy when you used prior versions for years.

I get that it doesn't bother everyone as much, but when you are working with it for long days/weeks/months at a time, all that "lag & drag" really adds up and just makes the app feel sluggish. It's probably exacerbated by the fact that I'm having to go back into Logic 9 quite a bit, and when I do, it's painfully obvious how much better that 4-year-old app runs on the latest hardware...


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## Zhao Shen (Apr 10, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The problem is that you have to use Windows instead of OS X. That's the deal-breaker for me.



To each their own. I use macOS for programming (because UNIX-based systems are great) but Windows for everything else because it just feels more intuitive to me and better fits my expectations for what a desktop experience should be.


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## samphony (Apr 10, 2017)

whinecellar said:


> Nope, *not* an OS issue. I'm on El Cap (10.11.x) at the moment, and I can open an identical project – either a real one with actual content or a blank slate with a bunch of empty tracks - and everything on Logic 9.1.8 is INSTANT. Zero lag whatsoever & completely fluid when resizing or opening any window, multiple editors, etc., even at full 4K resolution. Logic 10.3.1 on the other hand lags terribly when opening a mixer or piano roll pane, resizing a window, changing screen sets, etc., and it really seems to hate the score window for some reason, both as an integrated editor and as a separate window.
> 
> I've seen the same behavior on multiple machines, and even done a basic set up at Apple stores with a stock installation of Logic - same thing. And this is all on current high and hardware. I have noticed it's much worse on HDPI resolutions, but even on standard, Logic X is just painfully syrupy when you used prior versions for years.
> 
> I get that it doesn't bother everyone as much, but when you are working with it for long days/weeks/months at a time, all that "lag & drag" really adds up and just makes the app feel sluggish. It's probably exacerbated by the fact that I'm having to go back into Logic 9 quite a bit, and when I do, it's painfully obvious how much better that 4-year-old app runs on the latest hardware...



I just realized on a recent project of the event editor is open and it projects a lot of data the screen redraw gets sluggish.


----------



## Ashermusic (Apr 10, 2017)

whinecellar said:


> Nope, *not* an OS issue. I'm on El Cap (10.11.x) at the moment, and I can open an identical project – either a real one with actual content or a blank slate with a bunch of empty tracks - and everything on Logic 9.1.8 is INSTANT. Zero lag whatsoever & completely fluid when resizing or opening any window, multiple editors, etc., even at full 4K resolution. Logic 10.3.1 on the other hand lags terribly when opening a mixer or piano roll pane, resizing a window, changing screen sets, etc., and it really seems to hate the score window for some reason, both as an integrated editor and as a separate window.
> 
> I've seen the same behavior on multiple machines, and even done a basic set up at Apple stores with a stock installation of Logic - same thing. And this is all on current high and hardware. I have noticed it's much worse on HDPI resolutions, but even on standard, Logic X is just painfully syrupy when you used prior versions for years.
> 
> I get that it doesn't bother everyone as much, but when you are working with it for long days/weeks/months at a time, all that "lag & drag" really adds up and just makes the app feel sluggish. It's probably exacerbated by the fact that I'm having to go back into Logic 9 quite a bit, and when I do, it's painfully obvious how much better that 4-year-old app runs on the latest hardware...



Hmmm I wonder why I am not seeing that. LP 9 exhibited that a little this morning as well. I could do a QT movie so you can see.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 10, 2017)

Logic opens to the file selection dialog in 7 or seconds on my machine. It used to take a lot longer to scan for EXS instruments.

Maybe it's a 4K thing?

Also, the latest Sierra runs on my upgraded 2009 machine. You need to spend $100 on BT and Wi-Fi cards if you want Handoff and Continuity to work, but other than that I don't understand the complaint.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 10, 2017)

Also, worrying about Logic? Why? They're hard at work on it all the time.


----------



## Red (Apr 10, 2017)

Alright. Those apple sobs got me with the price drop. Their marketing is on point.

I think I'm gonna get me a trash can mac pro.

Are the 6 cores still more efficient compared to the 8 core in logic? or have the new updates made multi core more viable.

If difference between 6core and 8 core is only in theory, then it's not worth the extra $800. But if it's the difference is using it for another year, it makes sense.

With the current prices and 3rd party 64gb ram update,
the 6 core is at $3800
and the 8core is $4500

Please correct me if I'm wrong but
More cores only affect more track numbers right? And speed is probably linked to ssd and ram?

Arrrrrgh! How do I make decisions and not regret it?!?!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 10, 2017)

SSDs let you stream more better faster, and they let you get away with a smaller RAM buffer. More cores should let you run more plug-ins and synths, and RAM lets you cue up more instruments/articulations ready to play.

If I were buying the machine, I'd be inclined to spend the money on more SSD storage * and RAM rather than two more cores. They seem unlikely to extend its useful life. 

* My system drive is an SSD and I have about half my sample libraries (the ones I use most and the biggest ones) on them. So far nobody is angry with me for continuing to use spinning drives for the others.

***

Storage is the biggest money sinkhole ever invented, starting with the $650 30 Meg (MB not GB) CMS drive I got with my Mac Plus.


----------



## Wunderhorn (Apr 10, 2017)

I think even with the price drop the 2013 Mac Pros are still way too expensive for the technology that's inside. I got one when they came out. It runs nicely, but it is a poor design, forcing you to have everything externally with huge wads of cables.
Also, remember, they come with two graphic cards which even Adobe does not support in most of their applications. Complete waste of money on this end. I always loved using Macs, but the 2013 model design and no updates to it really disappointed me. 

I am curious about the new machines they are developing. "Modular" sounds like it's going back into a better direction. I will hold out and wait to see how they will turn out.

In the meantime I would not blame anyone for choosing a PC. There is a company in Germany (Deltatronics) that build high performance workstations without a fan. Completely and utterly silent, no moving parts. Apple should learn from them.


----------



## whinecellar (Apr 10, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Hmmm I wonder why I am not seeing that. LP 9 exhibited that a little this morning as well. I could do a QT movie so you can see.



I've been grabbing quite a collection of video myself that demonstrates L9 vs. LX - when I can find time I'll get it all uploaded. The difference is not subtle. @Nick Batzdorf , running at full 4k resolution makes a *tiny* bit of difference, but not nearly as much as running HDPI on/off. Performance is almost identical when just running on a MacBook Pro by itself at 1080p. Even then, everything slows down the second you open a mixer or piano roll pane. On Logic 9, it's an instant "snap" - no lag whatsoever.

And I'm not worried at all about Logic development - they've made some truly massive strides, and seem more open than ever to pro user input. I'm just frustrated that after how many years, the program still *feels* so much more kludgy than 9 even on the most powerful hardware, and after "flattening" the GUI. Call me crazy, I'm just one of those people (like you, from what I've read!) who cares about the overall aesthetic and feel of things. For my way of working, a slow-feeling GUI gets on my last nerve when I have to deal with it all day long.


----------



## mc_deli (Apr 10, 2017)

Anecdotally, MBP core duo from 2007 (2nd most powerful MBP at the time) with OS 10.6.8 Logic 9.1.x ran much snappier than rMBP 2.2 from 2015 (2nd most powerful MBP at the time with OS 10.10-11.x and Logic 10.2-3.x. There was no GUI lag in the editors or lazy regions back then for me.


----------



## germancomponist (Apr 10, 2017)

I wonder: What could they do better than others? Nothing! They can follow the PC's way, but never ever can do something better. Apple, a joke! Isn't it?
Ah yes, they are masters when it comes to generate a hype! Wow, Apple is soooo cool and you are only cool if you use an Apple PC (clone), called an Apple Mac Pro!


----------



## Saxer (Apr 10, 2017)

germancomponist said:


> I wonder: What could they do better than others?


OS & Desing. Forget the hype.


----------



## NYC Composer (Apr 10, 2017)

My computer can beat up your computer.


----------



## Soundhound (Apr 10, 2017)

Your computer wears army boots.


----------



## NYC Composer (Apr 10, 2017)

Soundhound said:


> Your computer wears army boots.


Yo mama...er, never mind.

(Hi Doug!)


----------



## whinecellar (Apr 10, 2017)

mc_deli said:


> Anecdotally, MBP core duo from 2007 (2nd most powerful MBP at the time) with OS 10.6.8 Logic 9.1.x ran much snappier than rMBP 2.2 from 2015 (2nd most powerful MBP at the time with OS 10.10-11.x and Logic 10.2-3.x. There was no GUI lag in the editors or lazy regions back then for me.



Yep, indeed. I still have a 2009 MBP Core2Duo as one of my old slave machines and it has Logic 9.1.8 on it - and it absolutely KILLS my 2015 MBP quad i7 with discrete graphics running Logic 10.3.1. I just don't get it... it's not like Logic is running a 3D GUI?!?


----------



## Soundhound (Apr 10, 2017)

Snag! My limited nationwide research tells me that Snag is still a purely NYC schoolyard epithet. Circa 1972.

(Larry wassup!)



NYC Composer said:


> Yo mama...er, never mind.
> 
> (Hi Doug!)


----------



## NYC Composer (Apr 10, 2017)

Never heard Snag, but I was still upstate in 72.

Re 10.68-I was finally dragged, screaming, into 10.85 when there was finally something I couldn't live without. Maybe a Kontakt update? Can't remember, but it was only a year ago or thereabouts.


----------



## FredW (Apr 11, 2017)

Happy I found this thread as I was just about to create a new one regarding how the "recent" Mac's deal with GUI lag when switching between screen sets. 

I desperately moved to LX from L9 some months ago after having daily crashes on L9 for years. Since LX I have not had a single crash since day one and I'm pushing my 2010 iMac with 100+ tracks in the template (no slaves) + another 500+ modular tracks that stay in the environment mixer. I did off course notice the delay in GUI but was so pleased that I didn't get any crashes at all so I didn't really bother at first. The biggest difference I have seen is when it comes to switching between screen sets - and I use these a lot. With exactly the same template loaded on the same El cap machine it takes me 1,4s to switch between two certain screen sets in LX that takes only 1.0s in L9 (obviously not instant though).

I was hoping that getting the now price dropped MacPro would give me that instant snap between screen sets, but it feels after reading posts here that it won't do much difference if I would be upgrading since the bottleneck would be LX itself?



whinecellar said:


> Yep, indeed. I still have a 2009 MBP Core2Duo as one of my old slave machines and it has Logic 9.1.8 on it - and it absolutely KILLS my 2015 MBP quad i7 with discrete graphics running Logic 10.3.1. I just don't get it... it's not like Logic is running a 3D GUI?!?



Is there any difference if you use low-res mode in LX? Have you tried using the terminal script to "Disable Open/Close Window Animations"? I have noticed you bringing up these issues with the GUI before so what is the reason you just don't stay with L9? If I didn't have these crazy amounts of crashes in L9 I would not have considered upgrading to LX at all.


----------



## whinecellar (Apr 11, 2017)

FredW said:


> Is there any difference if you use low-res mode in LX?



Low-res mode helps just enough to be noticeable, but not enough to make the slight blurriness worthwhile. The biggest slowdown is when running in any HDPI resolution - even at 1080p on a 15" Retina MacBook Pro. What's crazy is that the lag is just as bad on that display as on my 40" 4k - it's almost like the number of pixels don't matter!



FredW said:


> Have you tried using the terminal script to "Disable Open/Close Window Animations"?



Yes, great question most people don't know about! That does help some too, even on OSX itself. And when you do that, you notice just how INSTANT Logic 9 is - recalling even complicated screen sets & resizing windows in 9 is instant, whereas LX is slow and syrupy even with all these tweaks.



FredW said:


> ...so what is the reason you just don't stay with L9? If I didn't have these crazy amounts of crashes in L9 I would not have considered upgrading to LX at all.



I built a whole new template in LX a year ago, just before starting a massive project, so I've essentially been stuck with LX. Sadly I didn't really give it a thorough test in the trenches before committing to it, because I was so excited about all the new features - especially some things I've been begging for for years. And my 25 years with Logic led me to believe it would only improve. It has in many ways, but if this issue doesn't get fixed soon, I may indeed revert to 9 when I'm done with this current project. As much as I love many of the new features, none of them are worth dealing with this "draggy" feel all day every day. Like you, I constantly change screen sets when working - it's part of having a massive template. These delays don't seem like much if you tend to work in one window most of the time, but for my way of working, it's a deal breaker. When I go back to 9 for something, it's just night and day how much more responsive and instant everything feels. And I think I maybe averaged a crash once every few months at best - it was always rock solid for me.

Anyway, there you have it!


----------



## FredW (Apr 11, 2017)

whinecellar said:


> Low-res mode helps just enough to be noticeable, but not enough to make the slight blurriness worthwhile. The biggest slowdown is when running in any HDPI resolution - even at 1080p on a 15" Retina MacBook Pro. What's crazy is that the lag is just as bad on that display as on my 40" 4k - it's almost like the number of pixels don't matter!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, I understand. Guess I still don't have much reason to get a newer machine then. Thanks.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 11, 2017)

Gunther wrote:



> I wonder: What could they do better than others? Nothing! They can follow the PC's way, but never ever can do something better. Apple, a joke! Isn't it?



"Better" is subjective, Gunther. If you prefer working on their computers, they're better.

But Apple also has a history of leading the way, starting with how the Mac made using a computer fun and accessible (yes they used Xerox' GUI, but they implemented it). There are lots of things in between - such as desktop publishing - but what about the iPhone? That's become an appendage.

There's also the iPad (even though it's become less of a thing than it was), the MacBook Air leading to much lighter laptops, even seemingly small things like their absolutely perfect previous generation Magic Keyboard.

In other words, you don't get to be the largest tech company in the world only with hype. You have to back it up.

Now, I happen to think someone high up believes their hype too much, that the goal is to remove everything you can from devices (like the headphone jack). And the latest version of their keyboard is cause for dismay. But you do have to give them some credit!


----------



## mc_deli (Apr 11, 2017)

...and their tax attorneys are the most creative in the world no doubt


----------



## stigc56 (Apr 11, 2017)

Red said:


> Alright. Those apple sobs got me with the price drop. Their marketing is on point.
> 
> I think I'm gonna get me a trash can mac pro.
> 
> ...


You might consider that the 8 core had a larger L3 cache, that should influence the performance I'm told, I consider the same machine.


----------



## Soundhound (Apr 11, 2017)

Forgot you're originally from upstate. I need to drive the Northway up to Montreal again one of these days. 
Bee-ooutiful.



NYC Composer said:


> Never heard Snag, but I was still upstate in 72.
> 
> Re 10.68-I was finally dragged, screaming, into 10.85 when there was finally something I couldn't live without. Maybe a Kontakt update? Can't remember, but it was only a year ago or thereabouts.


----------



## Soundhound (Apr 11, 2017)

This.

And I think it goes back to the Jobs/No Jobs thing.

Geniuses don't grow on trees. 



<<<"Better" is subjective, Gunther. If you prefer working on their computers, they're better.

But Apple also has a history of leading the way, starting with how the Mac made using a computer fun and accessible (yes they used Xerox' GUI, but they implemented it). There are lots of things in between - such as desktop publishing - but what about the iPhone? That's become an appendage.

There's also the iPad (even though it's become less of a thing than it was), the MacBook Air leading to much lighter laptops, even seemingly small things like their absolutely perfect previous generation Magic Keyboard.

In other words, you don't get to be the largest tech company in the world only with hype. You have to back it up.

Now, I happen to think someone high up believes their hype too much, that the goal is to remove everything you can from devices (like the headphone jack). And the latest version of their keyboard is cause for dismay. But you do have to give them some credit!>>>


----------



## Norbz (Apr 11, 2017)

My machine is 7 years old:






And I do a LOT of rich media on here, from 4K edits w/lot's of effects to 3D model/rendering to running crazy vst patches/chains, and it's rare that I cap her out. I don't know what it would take to entice me to have to get a new one as this is still quite the powerful work horse (I figured by now I'd need an upgrade too!). I'm sure the new ones run faster but I don't know if the difference is big enough for me yet to dump that kind of investment into a marginal improvement.


----------



## Saxer (Apr 11, 2017)

whinecellar said:


> For those of us who remember how responsive Logic used to be, it's all a moot point until they optimize it for current hardware. The audio engine is fine, but the overall GUI is so ridiculously slow compared to Logic 9 it's maddening over the course of a long day. It's gotten significantly better since Logic X first shipped, but doing just about anything with multiple editors makes the GUI painfully slow.


Logic 10.2.9 was graphically much faster than 10.3 and 10.3.1. Especially with open event editors. They changed some font rendering for retina world and I think this slows down the whole graphic. The more text on screen the slower it gets. When I open the event list with my breath controller data it slows everything down. The same data show up incredibly fast as lines in the piano roll. So I think (hope) it's a work in progress process between OS and Logic and they will fix that soon. They have to!


----------



## whinecellar (Apr 12, 2017)

Saxer said:


> ...So I think (hope) it's a work in progress process between OS and Logic and they will fix that soon. They have to!



I sure hope so. I took a few hours yesterday compiling a whole bunch of documentation and 16 videos that show all this stuff and sent it to the dev team. I'm certainly doing my part to try and help sort it out!

You know, it is quite something how short my wish list has gotten with Logic. This GUI thing is a big deal for me along with a few other issues, but it's remarkable just how much they've fixed and implemented over recent years...


----------



## macmac (Apr 12, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> even seemingly small things like their absolutely perfect previous generation Magic Keyboard.... And the latest version of their keyboard is cause for dismay.



What did they do to the keyboard?

Is the corded version that's sold currently still OK or did they spoil that also?


----------



## samphony (Apr 12, 2017)

macmac said:


> What did they do to the keyboard?
> 
> Is the corded version that's sold currently still OK or did they spoil that also?


The extended keyboard is still the same and worth to buy!

I couldn't work without it. Especially logic allows to assign key commands separately to the num block and the numbers row. 

So while the numbers row is used for changing screen sets you can assign the num block for different things.


----------



## macmac (Apr 12, 2017)

Thanks, great to know. I've had my extended keyboard for a few years now and love it. I wanted to buy a spare but would hope it's still the same.

You mentioned Logic...I still use the key commands Enter and O for play and stop, rather than the space bar. I'm so used to that since version 4 that I have to have that in my other DAWs. The extended is great for the numbers pad, plus the best keyboard Apple ever made IMO.


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Apr 12, 2017)

Saxer said:


> Logic 10.2.9 was graphically much faster than 10.3 and 10.3.1. Especially with open event editors. They changed some font rendering for retina world and I think this slows down the whole graphic. The more text on screen the slower it gets. When I open the event list with my breath controller data it slows everything down. The same data show up incredibly fast as lines in the piano roll. So I think (hope) it's a work in progress process between OS and Logic and they will fix that soon. They have to!



Apple just wants to bring some kind of ZEN into our workflow........

...open a screen set....wait.....choose an editor.....wait......select the desired events (not to fast please)....wait.....and then you´re done already.....maybe, if you were not to fast, like you used to be in 10.2, otherwise you might have edited some things, you didn´t want to edit at all............. and if you need the full amount of ZEN........you´ll get a crash.......like at least 5-6 times a day...........I never was into meditation though.

This is absolutely ridiculous and the most annoying Logic update I remember, in spite of all fixes and improvements. Hopefully we do not have to wait to long !


----------



## Saxer (Apr 12, 2017)

The odd numbered Logic versions have always been the best: 3 / 5 / 7 / 9 - let's hope for a soon 11!


----------



## Ashermusic (Apr 12, 2017)

Heinigoldstein said:


> Apple just wants to bring some kind of ZEN into our workflow........
> 
> ...open a screen set....wait.....choose an editor.....wait......select the desired events (not to fast please)....wait.....and then you´re done already.....maybe, if you were not to fast, like you used to be in 10.2, otherwise you might have edited some things, you didn´t want to edit at all............. and if you need the full amount of ZEN........you´ll get a crash.......like at least 5-6 times a day...........I never was into meditation though.
> 
> This is absolutely ridiculous and the most annoying Logic update I remember, in spite of all fixes and improvements. Hopefully we do not have to wait to long !



Logic almost never crashes here and when it does it is almost because of a third party plug-in. Amplitube 4 in my case.


----------



## FriFlo (Apr 12, 2017)

Saxer said:


> The odd numbered Logic versions have always been the best: 3 / 5 / 7 / 9 - let's hope for a soon 11!


Apple does not seem to move beyond X ...


----------



## Heinigoldstein (Apr 12, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Logic almost never crashes here and when it does it is almost because of a third party plug-in. Amplitube 4 in my case.


It crashes here even with pretty small projects with only a few Kontakt instances and no other 3rd party plug ins. I could still live with this, but the slowed down graphic and the very sloppy mouse action, especially in the event editor, drives me mad !!!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 12, 2017)

macmac said:


> What did they do to the keyboard?
> 
> Is the corded version that's sold currently still OK or did they spoil that also?



As samphony says, the corded one is the same. They came out with a Bluetooth Magic Keyboard 2 that has a shorter travel. The original Magic Keyboard - with or without cord (they feel 99% the same) - is the best keyboard ever made.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but I'm really picky about keyboards.

By the way, I have two things for 10-key entry: a Belkin Bluetooth 10-key that I use for heavy numeric entry (e.g. during tax time); and also an overlay for the Magic Trackpad I use for gestures (not pointing).

I do recommend the Belkin YourType, and I'm kinda off the Mobee Magic Numpad these days, although it's fine for things like Logic commands and switching screensets.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 12, 2017)

Heinigoldstein, unfortunately what you have is a tech support issue. Logic isn't normally like that, certainly on the computer you're using (which is pretty much the same as mine).


----------



## Red (Apr 12, 2017)

I find varying results with logic with almost all of my composer friends.

I cannot exactly remember the last time my logic x crashed, but it did happen once or twice in the very early stages of logic x (due to QL Spaces).
That's with the late 2013 rMBP.

But my friend with a iMac (2014 or 15) has been experiencing weird errors that I've never even encountered. According to him, it's usually during a kontakt load up or changing to another patch in kontakt.

Crazy thing is, my template is usually bigger than his and I also use a fair amount of PLAY libraries.

Could it be that the hardware of rMBP is just a better fit with the software elements required for logic?


----------



## Shubus (Apr 14, 2017)

I got suckered into the 2013 MacPro and what a huge disappointment it has been. My 2010 upgraded MacPro spins rings around it. I have decidedly low expectations that Apple's 2018 MacPro will offer much more than higher GPU performance and options as they are intent on getting into the virtual reality space. Of course for DAW purposes we really don't care about fast GPU's since none of the DAWS can use it. What we can use are multiple CPU's with lots of cores.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 14, 2017)

Shubus, which 2013 and what are the specs of your upgraded 2010?

You're the first person I've heard say that, in fact Charlie Clouser posted Logic CPU graphs of the same thing on both machines, and the black one was sweating less.

I'm not disputing what you say, just curious.


----------



## Shad0wLandsUK (Apr 14, 2017)

Norbz said:


> My machine is 7 years old:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to completely agree there.

Mine is 5 years old and I can still add more RAM, more PCI-e, More SSDs, More USB Ports and Faster CPUs.
I cannot see how it will run out in a few years from now. Best investment of £2K I ever made in my life, I think.


----------



## Ashermusic (Apr 15, 2017)

Shubus said:


> I got suckered into the 2013 MacPro and what a huge disappointment it has been.



Want to sell it?


----------



## URL (Apr 15, 2017)

Don't sell -you can use it as a trashcan for old sample libs


----------



## Kaufmanmoon (Apr 18, 2017)

Gah. I almost need someone to slap me round the face and say just get this or that!
I don't think I can wait another year to rely on my Macbook pro as my main machine with 16gb ram


----------



## sherief83 (Apr 18, 2017)

For those that were pointing out performance issues, specifically with graphic interface with logic, recently I decided to disable a few of those advanced features as I don't need them and it really helped with the performance and flow, here is what it looks like for me (picture included). I also included a picture of my Logic audio preferences, This is a 12 core mac pro. it runs 140 instruments an entire film without any delay or buffering/ issues. 

Also I'd like to point out that I removed any background apps that are not related to logic or audio, this is production mac pro only so it runs logic and anything related to it, any apps that have startup background apps, I tend to micro manage and make sure they don't take away from the performance.

Just a few thoughts.


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## Kaufmanmoon (Apr 18, 2017)

Ok. So some of you own the 5.1 towers.
How long do you see you owning your machine now till you have to upgrade.
I'm talking Apple stopping support for these machines and causing problems rather than the systems being old.
Are you hoping another 5 years?


----------



## Puzzlefactory (Apr 18, 2017)

Not quite as grim as that. It's not so much when Apple will stop supporting old machines with the new OS's, but more about when software companies stop supporting whichever OS you get stuck on.


----------



## whinecellar (Apr 18, 2017)

sherief83 said:


> For those that were pointing out performance issues, specifically with graphic interface with logic, recently I decided to disable a few of those advanced features as I don't need them...



Thanks, but disabling all those advanced features is kind of like taking half the cylinders out of an engine - many if not most of us need those features. The whole point is that Logic has always had most of those features by default and ran like a hot knife through butter. LX on the other hand, not so much.

BTW, I compiled a detailed list of these issues along with 16 videos that demonstrate all of this, if anyone's interested. It's all in a ZIP file on Dropbox; I've sent it to the dev team and would be happy to add anyone else's experience if you care to weigh in...


----------



## whinecellar (Apr 18, 2017)

This just in about a new "server grade" iMac coming later this year...

New 'Server-Grade' iMac With Next-Gen Xeon Processor Coming End of 2017


----------



## samphony (Apr 18, 2017)

whinecellar said:


> Thanks, but disabling all those advanced features is kind of like taking half the cylinders out of an engine - many if not most of us need those features. The whole point is that Logic has always had most of those features by default and ran like a hot knife through butter. LX on the other hand, not so much.
> 
> BTW, I compiled a detailed list of these issues along with 16 videos that demonstrate all of this, if anyone's interested. It's all in a ZIP file on Dropbox; I've sent it to the dev team and would be happy to add anyone else's experience if you care to weigh in...



Jim can you forward them to mee? I would like the send them to my contacts too!


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## whinecellar (Apr 18, 2017)

samphony said:


> Jim can you forward them to mee? I would like the send them to my contacts too!



PM sent


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## Kaufmanmoon (Apr 18, 2017)

I get so confused about what to do sometimes. 
In the end it seems that the Fry "shut up and take my money" meme conveys my thoughts on that new imac model.


----------



## dcoscina (Apr 18, 2017)

Kaufmanmoon said:


> I get so confused about it all, that new imac with 64gb Ram might be the easy option


I think I'm going that route as well. Keep my old 3.1 MP for storage/slave since it won't get me anything in then used market and have tried iMac with terrific screen display and ability to have 2 more 27" displays


----------



## Kaufmanmoon (Apr 18, 2017)

dcoscina said:


> I think I'm going that route as well. Keep my old 3.1 MP for storage/slave since it won't get me anything in then used market and have tried iMac with terrific screen display and ability to have 2 more 27" displays



it'll probably cost 9k


----------



## whinecellar (Apr 18, 2017)

Kaufmanmoon said:


> it'll probably cost 9k



...in which case I'd bet the mass exodus will begin. Pros have had enough.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 18, 2017)

But the rumored screen is 8k.


----------



## samphony (Apr 18, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> But the rumored screen is 8k.



Hopefully it's not 8k at 21" :D


----------



## Kaufmanmoon (Apr 19, 2017)

Puzzlefactory said:


> Not quite as grim as that. It's not so much when Apple will stop supporting old machines with the new OS's, but more about when software companies stop supporting whichever OS you get stuck on.



So do you 5.1 guys honestly see yourself owning a 5.1 in 5 years time?
Sure they might be working sufficiently enough but some people would have to been taken in by the new tech. I've seen enough of that with instrument libraries on here since i've joined.
My point is we all like to stick up with our faithful gear that serves us well on here. If i'm still about I'll have to repost this in 5 years time when I'm living in a little railway town with a studio that's not even decorated. Wait.....that's where I'm at now!


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## Puzzlefactory (Apr 20, 2017)

Well I don't have one, but I'm tempted to buy a refurbished one as you can pick up quite a powerful machine for around £1000. Which seems quite inexpensive for a powerful Mac. My only issue is whether the older 2010 machines can take 64 Gb ram as all the ones I've seen for sale only have 32.

When it comes to upgrading, only you can decided whether you're always going to want the latest and greatest software and libraries. 

Personally I don't think it's necessary and has more to do with G.A.S than enything else. East West libraries are pretty old now but are still widely used (if not the industry standard). 

But in answer to your specific question, I can see an older machine still being viable in 5 years in terms of software compatibility. NI only recently stopped supporting OSX leopard and that's an old OS.


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