# Workflow to ensure future compatibility of your song?



## maestro2be (Dec 22, 2020)

Hi all,

What method do you follow to ensure that:

1. A song you write today, opens 5-10 years from now?
2. A song you write today, with Kontakt 5, opens in Kontakt 6 which is no longer available to you? Maybe it is and I just don't know it.

It's not often I go way back, but I just opened a song that's looking for about 40 Kontakt 5 instances and for me, that's long gone history. I want to protect myself the best I can moving forward with things like VST Player upgrades.

I have started writing notes on each of my tracks that tells in great detail, the Virtual Instrument Player used and as many settings as I can possibly remember. I am even considering taking screenshots of all the settings for that Virtual Instrument.

Would love to hear how you all handle this and protect yourself in the future if you ever needed to do a revised version of a song from years ago.

Thanks!


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## storyteller (Dec 22, 2020)

Most professional mix engineers render stems with fx printed as one method, while also making detailed notes about plugins, settings, etc. As a producer, songwriter, and composer, I tend to save file names with detailed descriptions, leave notes in the project where possible (on tracks and within the project), freeze all VIs, print various renders throughout the project, and archive unused tracks, pre-melodyne tracks, post melodyne tracks, etc. My track names tend to contain the Vi name, preset setting, any tweaks, additional plugin fx, etc. Ex: “Kontakt6 - 8dio Century Strings - Legato (Mix Mic) + IK Tape Echo.” But YMMV. The file name helps in case old plugins don’t load, or the preset doesn’t exist in a new version of the plug-in. My old ProTools sessions would contain latency delay compensation notes in the file names too (e.g. 1260shift)

i will also sometimes save presets in plugins for certain songs... though I am not consistently doing this as I probably should.


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## maestro2be (Dec 22, 2020)

I really appreciate that. Lots of good ideas in there. I am going to also start taking a screenshot of my settings I think and see how time consuming that is. My wife suggested just running a video capture after completion as well and running through all the screens. That's also not a bad idea. Slower to find the exact thing you're looking for but nonetheless, better than the mess I am in right now going, shit, I need to open this song and it's screaming for Kontakt 5 and that's nowhere to be found for me and all but 7 tracks are disabled and I have no idea any of the settings I used.

If there's any good news in it at all, at least my performance is salvageable. Good luck though trying to figure out all the settings I had for my synths and strings etc.

Please let me know if anyone else has some additional great ideas.


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## JamieLang (Dec 24, 2020)

So, this is a concept near and dear to me...which most people ignore.

The fact is that long term, you need to have the multitrack rendered as PCM audio with timestamps, and ideally also rendered from zero. Whether you have Kontakt 6 or it's compatible shouldn't be on your radar. I get how it is when you're thinking a couple years and one version...but, I'm talking panned back time: I can open a recording I made 23 years ago in a handful of minutes and remix it...there are some string arrangements I did for a current project I can't get the MIDI to full recall. That is the NATURE of the beast. Admittedly, the current situation is also because I get sloppy with it BECAUSE I know it doesn't hold--and this project saw me jump through a couple different systems and DAWs. MIDI never moves from one DAW to another losslessly. They mostly all use greater than 480PPQN internally, and only export/import 480. Real time can be closer, but then there's MIDI IO jitter changing it.

However, PCM timestamped audio will literally NULL from one DAW to another (meaning be EXACTLY the same)...be that Nuendo v1 in like 1997 to the latest LogicProX and Cubase 11 in 2020...

So for me, the assets I make sure I have in non proprietary audio are:

Tracks (including RAW...OR...if there was some significant content editing done--those)​Raw mixes​Masters​
When I worked with hardware FX processors and analog inserts, I printed a lot of that off for client recall--only I nearly never used them. Within say 6 months, the project would recall as is for a small tweak...and beyond that, the call was always to REDO mix stuff--thus all I needed were the raw tracks and the old (stereo) mix as reference.

The good side of getting on in years is knowing this stuff to pass on--save younger artists the headaches...the downside is not being offended when they completely ignore it because it sounds so "old school".


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## Saxer (Dec 24, 2020)

Most of the time when I'm looking for a really old song (back 20 years+) I can find the midi and the audio. At the time most of the midi was outboard equipment anyway. But even if it's possible to open older software instruments I can finde better sounds and replace a lot of the old midi in a few hours. I never had to whine about lost data in songs (as long as I found the song itself).

For important projects like a succesfull band album that should be kept as a time document I'd render at least stems. Probably better to render everything to audio as single tracks with all tracks at the same start time. And every few years I'd copy all data to new media (from SCSI HD's to SSD's etc.). So it's possible to remix the entire project with original sound and performance.


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## studiostuff (Dec 24, 2020)

maestro2be said:


> What method do you follow to ensure that:
> 
> 1. A song you write today, opens 5-10 years from now?
> 2. A song you write today, with Kontakt 5, opens in Kontakt 6 which is no longer available to you? Maybe it is and I just don't know it.
> ...



You write the music down.

People in the future will be able to take your notation and make another recording. Folks who write music have been doing this for centuries. Folks who play music generally improve what you have written down.

Oh,... when you say "open" you want all the same sounds and delays and EFX need to be exactly the same...? 

In the good ole days, at the end of the night/mix, we used to have to write down every setting on a big analogue mixing desk... Level, EQ, Compression, EFX... on the desk... outboard stuff... And the next day, when the client would call for a minor adjustment... the adjusted mix never sounded exactly like the original mix.

Do you find your previous clients beating up your phone to revise 30 year old MIDI files...??? I sure don't. My advice to you would be to relax. This does not happen very often. 

If previous work is "long, gone history", tell your client it's going to cost them to recreate and adjust the original "approved" recording. And who among us wouldn't love an opportunity to get paid to revise a mix, with better sounds, in a better studio, with a better orchestra, and bill it to the client who can afford to ignore the credibility of your original work...???

If our clients don't know the value of our work at the time we do the work, it's our obligation to educate them as to the cost of "improving" that work. Seriously!!!

You might consider being a little more demanding with your clients. If they can't afford you, they should have no trouble in finding composer/producers who will pay your clients for the credit. 

Breathe in... Breathe out...


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## charlieclouser (Dec 25, 2020)

studiostuff said:


> Do you find your previous clients beating up your phone to revise 30 year old MIDI files...??? I sure don't. My advice to you would be to relax. This does not happen very often.



I frequently need to re-open files going back almost 20 years, do a "Save As" and modify them for this year's installment of a movie franchise, and many of the television series I've scored ran for 6-7 years, so this is something I've given a lot of thought to. That's why I use Logic, and for any project that's not a one-off, I try to use only the built-in instruments and plugins. If I do use Omnisphere, Kontakt, hardware synths, third-party plugins, etc. then I bounce those elements to audio right then and there, before I mix the project. 

I can open a 16-year-old project and every single thing comes back - and I've done this as recently as last spring. I opened a cue from the first SAW movie and everything was there (except for MasterX5... arrrgghh), and all sounded as intended. Every audio track, processing plugin, and sampler instrument - because I used only EXS24 and Logic's stock plugins, including automation. No problems.

I try to keep track of when a new version of Logic or ProTools announces that it won't open projects before version X.x, and I've had a couple of marathon conversion sessions where I load every single project in my archive and re-save it in the correct format. Fortunately this has only happened a couple of times - I think at the switch to Logic v7 and the switch to ProTools v6 (or maybe it was at the end of the SD2 file format). This was painful but insured that I can continue to load ancient material for re-use in the current format.

I really prefer to leave as much as possible as MIDI tracks that trigger the original sampler or synth, so that when I'm re-purposing an old cue I can get inside the MIDI performance and move notes around, record new bits, etc. In the case of Kontakt or Omnisphere or whatever, I bounce those elements to audio and mix from that, but I keep the original MIDI track present but muted / deactivated, and I always save the patches / samples locally to the individual project folder. In Omnisphere I tend to make a project set that includes the patches used, and then export that as a ".omnisphere" patch library (or whatever they call it) so that it includes the Multis, Patches, and any sample content that those elements require. In the case of Kontakt, I save Patch+Samples if possible, but if it's a protected library then I just save the .nki files to the project folder and hope for the best. 

The only old projects I can't easily get all the way back are album and remix stuff from the 1980's and 1990's - a lot of that pre-1994 stuff was in Opcode StudioVision which is dead and gone. But all that stuff was printed to analog multitrack and/or ProTools24, and I have all the original ProTools elements as well as re-dumps from the analog multitracks back to ProTools at bar one, so it's there if I ever need it - which will probably never happen.


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## AudioLoco (Dec 25, 2020)

ctrl+A /Render in place = done


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## jcrosby (Dec 25, 2020)

maestro2be said:


> I really appreciate that. Lots of good ideas in there. I am going to also start taking a screenshot of my settings I think and see how time consuming that is. My wife suggested just running a video capture after completion as well and running through all the screens. That's also not a bad idea. Slower to find the exact thing you're looking for but nonetheless, better than the mess I am in right now going, shit, I need to open this song and it's screaming for Kontakt 5 and that's nowhere to be found for me and all but 7 tracks are disabled and I have no idea any of the settings I used.
> 
> If there's any good news in it at all, at least my performance is salvageable. Good luck though trying to figure out all the settings I had for my synths and strings etc.
> 
> Please let me know if anyone else has some additional great ideas.


As mentioned many times above bouncing to audio is the only future proof method there is short of keeping a legacy machine around... (Which is the ideal solution for the scenario below.)

As far as settings the only way to stay on top if this would be to save patches just before you start rendering. Unfortunately there's no easy way. Even then there are no guarantees a plugin may change a settings format later... Bottom line is there's no easy way to do this that guarantees few things might not change somewhere in the process in 5 years time...

Although it's not common a couple examples off the top of my head are NI and Izotope changing patch or settings formats in the past. You basically have to assume this is a completely plausible scenario and figure out a strategy that doesn't rely on data that _might_ potentially have compatibility issues in 5+ years. Basically keeping a legacy machine around is the easiest way to deal with this as long as you can keep it alive and running. (Clone the main drive frequently to be safe.)

I did some assistant work for a someone working on a pretty big tv series 10+ years ago and their method was to keep a legacy machine that had Logic sessions from older seasons running and online at all times in case he had to pull up sections where he needed to adjust the midi... What he did was get all of the critical stuff into a main Logic session he could access as needed..


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## Living Fossil (Dec 25, 2020)

My basic approach may not be the most compact one, but i keep my old computers and startup volumes with different versions of the OS (starting with an Atari ST before switching to Mac in the 90ies).

Further, the extra effort depends vastly on the nature of a project. For not so important stuff i don't care that much about an absolutely complete compatibility. I had some cases where i had to revisit older projects that used plugins that weren't compatible any longer. Instead of going the road of perfection and firing up the old computer with the old OS, i decided to simply replace the plugins in question. Worked perfectly fine for those cases. But i had also situations where i went back to my G3 because of some exotic stuff...


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## macmac (Dec 25, 2020)

I name each MIDI and audio file with the name of the VI and my preset name etc. used to create them, then export both the MIDI and audio. The audio files are rendered with and without the FX. Plus I keep notes. This works also in the event I changed DAWs, allowing me to recreate from scratch merely from the [MIDI/audio] file names alone. And if the VI no longer works, at least the audio tells me what it sounded like so if I had to change the MIDI, I could get close. Or go for something different, still tweak or change the MIDI, etc. 

Good ideas in this thread. 

Edit: I have some really old Logic files (using hardware synths) that I hadn’t finished, but are solid stuff. Unfortunately the new versions of Logic won’t pull the instruments up even though the multi-instruments are still in the environment.


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## tmpc (Jan 28, 2021)

I am not a music professional but have been writing and recorded my own music on and off for the last 40 years. About 7 years ago I moved away from multi-track audio recording for the fluidity of MIDI sequencing (primarily) Kontakt libraries.

I retired about a year ago and spent the years leading up to that event acquiring a large number of sound libraries to use in my retirement. I've been quite diligent concerning backing up software and data, but the recent news concerning Native Instruments acquisition really has me worried. I'm afraid I've made a deal with the devil. All NI has to do is turn off the ability to authorize Kontakt (and its protected libraries) and I'm done.

I've been looking for a way around this, but other than having multiple computers with authorized installs of Kontakt and its libraries set up and ready to go in the event of a computer(s) failure, there seems to be no way around this.

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated?


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## JohnG (Jan 28, 2021)

JamieLang said:


> The fact is that long term, you need to have the multitrack rendered as PCM audio with timestamps, and ideally also rendered from zero.


yes (although rendered from any common starting point is fine, including but not limited to zero) and...



studiostuff said:


> You write the music down.


yes. A score makes a good backup.

Charlie has lots of good thoughts on this too, though I think his situation differs somewhat from that of most people. His music has the burden of having been popular!


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## HarmonyCore (Feb 2, 2021)

Although I haven't faced this issue until now, the OP post caught my attention. I went through the replies and understood as much as I could. However, I really don't understand why does it sound like a complicated issue. If I work in a project with 60 VST tracks, I keep them disabled and hidden with all its settings after I rendered them to audio. Then I backup the entire project with all its tracks, settings, etc. So, when I go back to that project after 2 years, everything is there. Where is the problem?! If Kontakt 7 is released, I believe it will still support the same file extensions NKI, NKR, ...etc so you can still run your old Kontakt 6 project with all its settings. Of course, naming conventions is very important and I give my tracks the same names as the presets' names. I don't find any reason why to take a screenshot or snapshot or OBS screen recording of all your VI settings. It's extremely time consuming!

Someone correct me please if I am wrong.


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## JamieLang (Feb 2, 2021)

HarmonyCore said:


> If I work in a project with 60 VST tracks, I keep them disabled and hidden with all its settings after I rendered them to audio. Then I backup the entire project with all its tracks, settings, etc. So, when I go back to that project after 2 years, everything is there. Where is the problem?!


Scale of time is where you're missing....tell me how well that opens in 5 yeas. 10 years. 20 years. Also, when you say it's the same, pick one, reverse the polarity on it vs the audio you'd rendered. If you hear anything, it's NOT the same. MIDI engines are not as exacting as audio...and also don't transfer to other apps losslessly....ever. Those audio files have a sample accurate timestamp that you can drag into basically any DAW TODAY or in 30 years and it will be exactly the same at track level. Can't promise the mixer will sound the same...but, at the content level, it's the same. 

You're not "wrong", you're just missing some more panned back POV/timeframe that feeds that recommendation to archive using timestamped audio files.

But, also--I really DO have some Cubase 9 or 9.5 files that won't play in 10 or 10.5 because they changed something about Hermode tuning. That's a couple years tops. You can play Yamaha, but no one else HAS Hermode Tuning (implemented usably)...so-I CAN disable that and the MIDI plays ok. It won't polarity cancel because it's tuned differently so while it's useable, it's not the same as it was when I signed off on the work. The audio files...are.


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## d.healey (Feb 2, 2021)

Most of my compositions are written in notation and I save as MusicXML.

For DAW projects I use DAWs that save as xml (or another human readable) file format so I can edit them in a text editor to quickly batch replace plugin names with different versions, or entirely different plugins.


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## HarmonyCore (Feb 2, 2021)

JamieLang said:


> Scale of time is where you're missing....tell me how well that opens in 5 yeas. 10 years. 20 years. Also, when you say it's the same, pick one, reverse the polarity on it vs the audio you'd rendered. If you hear anything, it's NOT the same. MIDI engines are not as exacting as audio...and also don't transfer to other apps losslessly....ever. Those audio files have a sample accurate timestamp that you can drag into basically any DAW TODAY or in 30 years and it will be exactly the same at track level. Can't promise the mixer will sound the same...but, at the content level, it's the same.
> 
> You're not "wrong", you're just missing some more panned back POV/timeframe that feeds that recommendation to archive using timestamped audio files.
> 
> But, also--I really DO have some Cubase 9 or 9.5 files that won't play in 10 or 10.5 because they changed something about Hermode tuning. That's a couple years tops. You can play Yamaha, but no one else HAS Hermode Tuning (implemented usably)...so-I CAN disable that and the MIDI plays ok. It won't polarity cancel because it's tuned differently so while it's useable, it's not the same as it was when I signed off on the work. The audio files...are.


Hey Jamie! First of all, from your reply, you're way more professional than me. So I definitely understood a little of what you said because simply I haven't faced any compatibility issues yet. I started my composing journey only the last year so my first Kontakt version is 6 (not even 5 lol). I don't know what is going to happen when Kontakt 7 is released. Will my VSTs still work?!Don't know. This thread just opened my eyes of what issues I may face in the future and try to avoid them.

So, as per my humble and decent knowledge now, I backup the audio files of every project regularly. But when necessary I still need to get back to the MIDI tracks and edit them. I mean what if a track of mine got a placement and the music library or the supervisor or whoever asks me to edit a violin countermelody or add a trumpet. In this case, I have to re-enable the MIDI track in question or add a new track and work on them. I have no clue what reversing a polarity is or Hermode tuning thing, Sorry!


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## tmpc (Feb 2, 2021)

HarmonyCore said:


> I don't know what is going to happen when Kontakt 7 is released. Will my VSTs still work?!Don't know. This thread just opened my eyes of what issues I may face in the future and try to avoid them.
> 
> So, as per my humble and decent knowledge now, I backup the audio files of every project regularly. But when necessary I still need to get back to the MIDI tracks and edit them. I mean what if a track of mine got a placement and the music library or the supervisor or whoever asks me to edit a violin countermelody or add a trumpet. In this case, I have to re-enable the MIDI track in question or add a new track and work on them.


Computer music is a deal with the devil. The sound libraries and plugins available these days are beyond belief. But, unlike your piano or guitar, you don't own any of it. You rent it, and can use it as long as you can figure out a way to allow it to work. What stands in your way? Most software is inexorably tied to particular hardware and other software (in the form of the operating system and licensing). The biggest software problem is licensing. You can buy an old computer and load it up with an old operating system, but if the music software you depend on is protected (licensing), and requires an internet connection to install, you will eventually be screwed.


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## JamieLang (Feb 2, 2021)

HarmonyCore said:


> I don't know what is going to happen when Kontakt 7 is released. Will my VSTs still work?!Don't know. This thread just opened my eyes of what issues I may face in the future and try to avoid them.
> 
> So, as per my humble and decent knowledge now, I backup the audio files of every project regularly. But when necessary I still need to get back to the MIDI tracks and edit them. I mean what if a track of mine got a placement and the music library or the supervisor or whoever asks me to edit a violin countermelody or add a trumpet. In this case, I have to re-enable the MIDI track in question or add a new track and work on them. I have no clue what reversing a polarity is or Hermode tuning thing, Sorry!


Will 7 seamlessly sound exactly like 6 automagically? My guess is probably--but, when you need to open that Kontakt 6 with Kontakt 9, the percentage goes down and down. But, it will functionally be close enough for most situations. 

And the very nature of it's liquidity you love as a composer means it won't come back the same. Now--your hypothetical, you use the AUDIO stems/archive for the 99% of the mix staying the same. You mute the violin line (audio)...and recreate it. and create a trumpet line. But, even if you want to go back to the MIDI, sure--it doesn't have to recreate that violin line sample accurately--you're changing it. And the trumpet line is new. So, if in two years, you need to do that, you should have no problem. It's also not a drum or piano--anything with a percussive attack where timing becomes more critical.

I mean, someone who gets placements of like that can answer how realistic it is...but, want I can tell you from doing analog and digital audio in a BUNCH of different systems...and MIDI in equally as many--I can't open MIDI for anything. I stopped even backing it up, because it's frustrating to have a MIDI string arrangement or piano part open up and be just....like Pet Semetary. Like it SHOULD work...but, the tempo drifts...or there's dead sampler keyswitches that make no sense, whithout which, it doesn't sound like even the same part...


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## HarmonyCore (Feb 2, 2021)

So, how can we get around this issue guys? I came across this thread too https://www.native-instruments.com/...4-sounds-saved-in-old-cubase-projects.433167/

Call me stupid, call me idiot but I am totally newbie when it comes upgrading Kontakt versions. If I have 10 tracks composed using sample libraries in K6, won't they be migrated easily to K9 in 2025?! Is there any seamless migration method that NI suggests for this? I love working with MIDI because it gives me access to VST sounds that would have never been accessed UNLESS I have to buy the entire orchestral instruments for millions of dollars. MIDI also gives me the power of EDIT. @JamieLang I really have no clue why you hate MIDI but I love it.


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## tmpc (Feb 2, 2021)

Actually, there's no technical reason why you shouldn't be able to open a 20 year old MIDI project, assuming you backed up all of the data and maintained a computer capable of running the software that made it . . . except that the companies that created that software just won't let you.


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## tmpc (Feb 2, 2021)

HarmonyCore said:


> Call me stupid, call me idiot but I am totally newbie when it comes upgrading Kontakt versions. If I have 10 tracks composed using sample libraries in K6, won't they be migrated easily to K9 in 2025?! Is there any seamless migration method that NI suggests for this? I love working with MIDI because it gives me access to VST sounds that would have never been accessed UNLESS I have to buy the entire orchestral instruments for millions of dollars. MIDI also gives me the power of EDIT. @JamieLang I really have no clue why you hate MIDI but I love it.


Like most companies, Native Instruments wants to sell you new stuff. They don't make more money off of a product you bought 10 years ago. This thinking is fine for a word processing app, but music is different. Many musicians get very attached to particular sounds and ways of doing things. This is unfortunately at odds with getting you to buy new stuff. The model just doesn't work.

The problem with Kontakt is Native Access. At some point, you won't be able to run it on the computer that runs your old DAW that you made your MIDI music on. So, if your SSD fails and you try to install the old software on the new SSD, you won't be able to activate it.


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## HarmonyCore (Feb 2, 2021)

tmpc said:


> Like most companies, Native Instruments wants to sell you new stuff. They don't make more money off of a product you bought 10 years ago. This thinking is fine for a word processing app, but music is different. Many musicians get very attached to particular sounds and ways of doing things. This is unfortunately at odds with getting you to buy new stuff. The model just doesn't work.
> 
> The problem with Kontakt is Native Access. At some point, you won't be able to run it on the computer that runs your old DAW that you made your MIDI music on. So, if your SSD fails and you try to install the old software on the new SSD, you won't be able to activate it.


I have no objections against upgrading to new software or companies that develop new versions. My concern is providing customers with easy migration methods without much hassles. Some people who I talk with suggest to keep the old versions of Kontakt along with the new version. Not sure if Cubase will open multiple Kontakt versions simultaneously. And if it does, I will use the latest instruments only with the latest Kontakt and keep old instruments in old Kontakts. 

I just have to read more about this issue.


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## HarmonyCore (Feb 2, 2021)

To be honest, I really miss making music on hardware gears away from all these technical stuff like software versions and compatibility issues. If humanity can invent one piece of hardware system to do cinematic composing, I will buy it for 30K if it costs that much.


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## tmpc (Feb 2, 2021)

HarmonyCore said:


> I have no objections against upgrading to new software or companies that develop new versions. My concern is providing customers with easy migration methods without much hassles. Some people who I talk with suggest to keep the old versions of Kontakt along with the new version. Not sure if Cubase will open multiple Kontakt versions simultaneously. And if it does, I will use the latest instruments only with the latest Kontakt and keep old instruments in old Kontakts.
> 
> I just have to read more about this issue.


Like you, I like to work with MIDI tracks. But as I said, the long term problem is enabling the old software and sound libraries. You can keep older Kontakt installers, but if you can't enable them, you're boned.

The only solution I've been able to come up with is to buy a spare computer, install and enable all of the software on it, and put it into service when the original computer (or its drive) fails.

The other thing is that Native Instruments is going though some "changes". The founders no longer have absolute control of the company, which I find worrisome.


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## tmpc (Feb 2, 2021)

HarmonyCore said:


> To be honest, I really miss making music on hardware gears away from all these technical stuff like software versions and compatibility issues. If humanity can invent one piece of hardware system to do cinematic composing, I will buy it for 30K if it costs that much.


Yep, that's the rub. Computer generated music is like meth. It's a great high, but you will probably lose everything in the long run.

Sounds like you want a modern version of the Fairlight or Synclavier. The bad news is that they just have a different version of the same problem:
Not many are sold.
Proprietary hardware.
The company goes out of business.
Hard to find replacement parts to keep it going.

Using standard computers with a much larger pool of replacements and parts is the right way to do this. The problem is the software protection. This is one reason I really appreciate a company like 8dio. Their libraries are watermarked and they dont have to be installed . . . but they still need Kontakt. Kontakt is the problem.


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## HarmonyCore (Feb 2, 2021)

tmpc said:


> The other thing is that Native Instruments is going though some "changes". The founders no longer have absolute control of the company, which I find worrisome.


I think you don't have to worry much about this because Francisco Partners will definitely be only a long term investor, not a product designer. I mean Kontakt, Komplete, Machine, Traktor are the BIG boys and I won't see them going anywhere soon. They can't decide overnight to dump them and create new ideas.


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## tmpc (Feb 2, 2021)

HarmonyCore said:


> I think you don't have to worry much about this because Francisco Partners will definitely be only a long term investor, not a product designer. I mean Kontakt, Komplete, Machine, Traktor are the BIG boys and I won't see them going anywhere soon. They can't decide overnight to dump them and create new ideas.


Hey, I hope you're right . . . but nobody puts that kind of money into a music company and then sits in the corner with a blindfold and gag on.

Besides, even if they are doing great, they will still eventually make it impossible to install and enable older versions of Kontakt that may be required for an older OS or sound library. Hell, they already did this a year or so ago with some older software. There was a huge outcry and they then re-enabled support for some of it, but the writing is on the wall. I no longer trust NI.


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## JamieLang (Feb 3, 2021)

HarmonyCore said:


> @JamieLang I really have no clue why you hate MIDI but I love it.


I've used it for 30 years longer? You "love" the concept. Not the reality of implementation. 

And for me it's relative. I have no interest in orchestral composition. For me---piano or drum recording via audio vs MIDI=one can replicate sample accurately what was played by a human, and one can't. The one that can, can be opened tomorrow or in ten years by any app you want to use to do whatever with it...the other can't be opened in another app losslessly TODAY.

Of course if you want to do orchestral composition, you (functionally) HAVE to use MIDI sequencing. It enables you to do something that virtually unlimited 96khz audio recording doesn't really. So, my valuation is different. I use it for string orchestrations in pop music that otherwise has no REAL need for MIDI, given the it's shortcomings.

I want to challenge something you're implying: you'd pay $30k for a hardware orchestral composition system? Cool--now what makes that different than what you have? Embedded systems are not (significantly) updated. So, you don't need that to set up a VSL (or whatever you prefer) server box with a static version of Windows and DAW. It will sound the same every time you boot it up...until there's hardware failure, which is why I picked Windows for you--you can always find replacement hardware and get the OS to work with the same peripherals and software versions.

So, your dream answer exists. For far less than your stated budget. Best yet--you likely already own it.


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## tmpc (Feb 4, 2021)

JamieLang said:


> Embedded systems are not (significantly) updated. So, you don't need that to set up a VSL (or whatever you prefer) server box with a static version of Windows and DAW. It will sound the same every time you boot it up...until there's hardware failure, which is why I picked Windows for you--you can always find replacement hardware and get the OS to work with the same peripherals and software versions.


You can do the same thing with a Mac, but you might not be able to install and enable Kontakt and its protected libraries in 10 years. That's the REAL problem.


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## macmac (Feb 7, 2021)

I’m beginning to think it makes sense to keep older computers that are already set up with the software and OS you need. (Especially Macs). Only problem is eventually they will cease to function. Unless you bought two of each. 

I have my original old Logic projects that back then used only hardware synths, no VIs. When I open them in current Logic, the MIDI is there and I can export it, but it no longer is set to play from that HW or preset, even though its multi-instrument is still there in the environment.


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