# MIDI Controller recommendations?



## David Enos (Dec 17, 2022)

HI all - 

I'm looking for an 88 key midi controller with a modwheel, pitch wheel, knobs, faders and pads to control orchestral sample libraries. My M-Audio Keystation 88 is writing its own modwheel data against my will when I record notes and it's frustrating. Weighted keys would be great but not required. Any recommendations? Something you are really impressed with/like? I'd love to hear from you. Thank you!


----------



## TintoL (Dec 17, 2022)

Do you have any preference on the locations of the faders, wheels and pads in the keyboard layout?
That filters a lot of options.

Also, it's the keyboard size an issue for you?

There is some usefull information in this recent thread:





My NI S88 mkii is kicking the bucket and I want to replace it with something that will last.


It started to go bad after about 1 1/2 years (it's about 3 years old) and now almost every month a new key gets all wonky with velocity response, and two of the keys have "sunk". So instead of buying another or getting it fixed then having this continue, I'd like to buy a new 88-key weighted...




vi-control.net


----------



## Henu (Dec 17, 2022)

I had a Nektar Impact LX61+ which served me well, but I upgraded into Keylab 61 Mk2 (semi-weighted) this autumn and have been very happy with it. The build quality of Keylab is absolutely superb and as a keyboard player, it feels more like a good synth which was the reason I bought it in the first place. I'd happily recommend both of these, depending on your budget and needs, but you can't really go wrong with either.


----------



## Henu (Dec 17, 2022)

TintoL said:


> Do you have any preference on the locations of the faders, wheels and pads in the keyboard layout?
> That filters a lot of options.


That mentioned, the Nektar has the pads on right and sliders on left, the way it definitely should be. I don't like the Keylab having them switched around, but can live with it.


----------



## TintoL (Dec 17, 2022)

Henu said:


> That mentioned, the Nektar has the pads on right and sliders on left, the way it definitely should be. I don't like the Keylab having them switched around, but can live with it.


Yeah, that was my main point. I find that there are two main layout setups in the market: pads in the left-sliders in the right or pads in the right -sliders in the left. The sliders in the right, to me are an ableton live thing to trigger loops (mainly because pads are in the left). Like you, I find that the keyboards with the sliders in the left are the ones for us midi mockup guys. That's why I am saying that the preferences limit a lot.

Also the size of the keyboard. If you want to put it in a drawer or in the deep back of your desk, the size is important. These two decisions will give you fewer options.

Because piano keys and size are important for me, i find the sutdiologic sl88 grand and the roland A88mk2 very good. However, none have wheels, pads or sliders. Judging by your post, I don't think these will work for you.

If money is not important, and controllers like faders are more important with good keys, I find that the Kurzweill PC4 stills is a complete package, but it's a bit tall.

There is also the Physis K4 EX and the K5 EX. These are full packages that I think are using a version of the fatar TP grand wood action. Only that more than pads it has buttons. But I think to trigger samples it works.


----------



## David Enos (Dec 17, 2022)

TintoL said:


> Do you have any preference on the locations of the faders, wheels and pads in the keyboard layout?
> That filters a lot of options.
> 
> Also, it's the keyboard size an issue for you?
> ...


The only thing I prefer is wheels on the left side somewhere (I'm left handed). Size is not necessarily an issue. Thanks for the link! I'll check it out


----------



## TintoL (Dec 17, 2022)

The physis K4- EX and K4-GW(76 keys) have THREE wheels...


----------



## David Enos (Dec 17, 2022)

Henu said:


> I had a Nektar Impact LX61+ which served me well, but I upgraded into Keylab 61 Mk2 (semi-weighted) this autumn and have been very happy with it. The build quality of Keylab is absolutely superb and as a keyboard player, it feels more like a good synth which was the reason I bought it in the first place. I'd happily recommend both of these, depending on your budget and needs, but you can't really go wrong with either.


Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## David Enos (Dec 17, 2022)

TintoL said:


> Yeah, that was my main point. I find that there are two main layout setups in the market: pads in the left-sliders in the right or pads in the right -sliders in the left. The sliders in the right, to me are an ableton live thing to trigger loops (mainly because pads are in the left). Like you, I find that the keyboards with the sliders in the left are the ones for us midi mockup guys. That's why I am saying that the preferences limit a lot.
> 
> Also the size of the keyboard. If you want to put it in a drawer or in the deep back of your desk, the size is important. These two decisions will give you fewer options.
> 
> ...


Good points. Never thought of the sliders being on the left as applying to MIDI mockups, it makes sense. Thanks for the recommendations!


----------



## David Enos (Dec 17, 2022)

TintoL said:


> The physis K4- EX and K4-GW(76 keys) have THREE wheels...


Thanks!


----------



## David Enos (Dec 17, 2022)

TintoL said:


> The physis K4- EX and K4-GW(76 keys) have THREE wheels...


Doesn't look like it's made anymore


----------



## David Enos (Dec 17, 2022)

Any opinions on Akai/Novation/Alesis/NI controllers?


----------



## TintoL (Dec 17, 2022)

I think I have enough experience with some products of those companies that could help you.

AKAI: I owned an AKAI MPD 232 and tested many times the MPK261. The AKAI synth keys are solid, very similar to the maudio and alesis synth key feel. The faders and pads are the same as the MPD. They are solid and the wheels feel decent. The bad things is that the button are clunky and clicky clacky. Hate that. It's also very big IMHO. The wheels over the keys tend to be a stretch if you have it in your desk and to the back of the desk. The pads are decent. But, not even close to the Native instrument mashine pads sensitivity. The NI pads are just the best in the market IMHO.

NOVATION: I also owned for a long time a launchkey 37. The buttons and knobs are superior compared to alesis and akai. Buttons are rubbery and the knobs very solid. The pads are similar to the AKAI's, but are smaller which feels tight for finger drumming. For that the maschine. (I haven't tried the new launchkey 88. I would try it as the rest is very solid)

ALESIS: it's like buying an maudio with slightly different layouts. I owned a V61 and a VI62. Keys are meh, they work, but the AKAi's and Novations are better. The pads are really low quality in comparison. For faders, you will have to go with Maudio. I would pass the Alesis, but that's me.

NI: I owned for a long time the S41. The fatar synth keys are just awesome. The best from all these products. The NI keyboards have the best wheel ever, (Big, chunky and solid.) The thing with the S88 is that it has the fatar TP100 keybed which I will stay away from. I had an s88 and returned it two times for keys either not responsive, loose or clicky claky. It's very common. The knobs, been touch sensitive, are really good for CC automation. The lights are a hid and miss. That's good for scales and chords. But, to be stuck with Komplete kontrol to be able to see the VSTs mapping, it's honestly not as solid. If you use VEP7, the lights will not show. And if you want to use kontakt, it also doesn't work. I think kontakt 7 still doesn't use the lights. You have to load kontakt in Komplet kontrol. But, I am not sure on that one. Buttons are clicky clacky. The screens, they look good. But, once you have the monitors in front of you, you never use them.

For me, I ended up having my own separate devices to get what I wanted. For faders I use the nakedboards. The keyboard, I use the studiologice 88 grand. I got used to the faders and the joysticks for automation. For pads, NI mashine. For keyswitching, a streamdeck.

I hope that helps.


----------



## river angler (Dec 17, 2022)

The Nektar P4/6 even being nearly a decade old is probably still the most full featured controller keyboard made to date and works really well. I use the pads for markers mainly within large classical scoring/film and a few of the default toggles like DAW click on/off but rarely use the multitude of other highly programable continuous controller knobs, switches and faders or even the extremely fine touch moving fader! The keyboard action is surprisingly good having a chunky piano type/synth hybrid feel with decent channel aftertouch.

Pretty comprehensive review here: 

If you really want a more pronounced weighted piano action keyboard the old Roland A-80 and slightly lighter action on the Elka MK88 are hard to beat (if without USB connection). Both these feature polyphonic aftertouch!


----------



## FJ5 (Dec 18, 2022)

David Enos said:


> Any opinions on Akai/Novation/Alesis/NI controllers?


I have the Launchkey 88. Great feeling keybed - none of the ‘stickiness’ of other ‘semi-weighted’ keys (in other words, smooth action, no initial breakout force after not using for a short while, something that annoyed me on M-Audio keyboards).

Although originally designed to be an Ableton controller, Mackie available, plus a bespoke script for Cubase (that I use).

Very happy with it.


----------



## ZeroZero (Dec 18, 2022)

The location of the Mod wheel on an 88 can be an issue. Try stretching your hand from your seating position to about 6 inches below CO and you will see. There are two ways around it, you can also map your MOD CC1 to a fader, or you can get a small independent back of faders which you can position exactly where your hand is comfortable. I purchased from xbox-one-modz on Ebay and am really pleased with them - well built. I paid £89 for eight faders - lunchbox size.
The trap with controller keyboards is to think you need too much. The all singing and dancing keyboards take up too much space. For example do you really want hardware sequencer stop,rec and start buttons on your keyboard, or will you just still reach out of habit for that mouse? 
Many Controller keyboards are designed for synth control rather than composers. Loads of presets for your different synths that are found via deep dives. Do you want all this? Will you actually use it or will you simply right click and assign a knob or fader? CC control is often an after thought. Some (rare -can't remember which) require you to load a patch into your channel, simply to use them. 
I think faders are essential for composing. If you have three faders assigned say to CC1, CCII and CC7 and you want to grab them all whilst playing a string line in your right, this is possible. It's impossible to do this with three knobs.
I have the Keylab 88 Mk II here, its very well made and it is easy to use if you spend a day with the manual. I dont use it. The action for a pianist is IMO stodgy - it's the same keybed as the NI keyboards. A lot of people use the NI boards - I wonder if that is because of the flashing lights and integration with NI software. The Arturia comes with a generous package of great software. It's heavy and well made. 
I play piano, so I am real happy that I have seperated my keybed requirements from my controller requireiments. I have had dozens of controller and keyboards through my studio. I can now keep my fantastic but old stage piano Roland 700NX, with excellent action and pathetic controls
Lastly, there is no substitute for actually seeing your controller. Many, probably most, are made like toys. If you live near Romford London I would recommend a visit to DV247 store as teh have about a hundred controllers and keyboards laid out. There range is vast and service excellent, they will not hesitate with returns if you dont like. 

Z


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Dec 18, 2022)

Recently just upgraded to a launchkey 88 from my m audio keystation 61 and I love it! Highly recommend.


----------



## Christian64 (Dec 18, 2022)

My set up:

- Arturia keylab essentiel 88
- Annstweed midi controler 3 faders plus midi expression input
- M audio expression pedal

High quality set up, very ergonomic and cheap









MIDI Controller highly programmable, 3 Faders with Expression Input


USB and Din MIDI Controller with 3 Faders and expression pedal input 2m USB cable and angled stand. Box dimensions are 116mm x 78 mm x 40mm to 55mm. The fader travel is 60mm. When a fader or pedal is moved the display shows the output CC value. The CC number, MIDI Channel and RANGE of the...




annstweed.com












M-Audio EX-P Expression Pedal


Pédale d'expression universelle Commutateur de polarité, Longueur du câble: 1,8 m, Fiche Jack 6,3 mm




www.thomann.de












Arturia KeyLab Essential 88


Clavier maître USB MIDI 88 touches sensibles à la vélocité, 8 pads sensibles à la vélocité avec aftertouch, 1 encodeur cliquable, 9 boutons rotatifs, 9 faders (30 mm), 13 boutons de contrôles, 6 boutons de transport, Ecran LCD, Molettes de Pitch...




www.thomann.de


----------



## VTX Rudy (Dec 18, 2022)

Henu said:


> That mentioned, the Nektar has the pads on right and sliders on left, the way it definitely should be. I don't like the Keylab having them switched around, but can live with it.


I don't use my keylab as much because of faders location.


----------



## Henu (Dec 18, 2022)

To be honest though, 99% of the time when using the Nektar when playing, I never touched any other control than the modwheel anyway on the fly and overdubbed the rest of the possible other CC's later.


----------



## David Enos (Dec 18, 2022)

TintoL said:


> I think I have enough experience with some products of those companies that could help you.
> 
> AKAI: I owned an AKAI MPD 232 and tested many times the MPK261. The AKAI synth keys are solid, very similar to the maudio and alesis synth key feel. The faders and pads are the same as the MPD. They are solid and the wheels feel decent. The bad things is that the button are clunky and clicky clacky. Hate that. It's also very big IMHO. The wheels over the keys tend to be a stretch if you have it in your desk and to the back of the desk. The pads are decent. But, not even close to the Native instrument mashine pads sensitivity. The NI pads are just the best in the market IMHO.
> 
> ...


Thanks! it does


----------



## David Enos (Dec 18, 2022)

river angler said:


> The Nektar P4/6 even being nearly a decade old is probably still the most full featured controller keyboard made to date and works really well. I use the pads for markers mainly within large classical scoring/film and a few of the default toggles like DAW click on/off but rarely use the multitude of other highly programable continuous controller knobs, switches and faders or even the extremely fine touch moving fader! The keyboard action is surprisingly good having a chunky piano type/synth hybrid feel with decent channel aftertouch.
> 
> Pretty comprehensive review here:
> 
> If you really want a more pronounced weighted piano action keyboard the old Roland A-80 and slightly lighter action on the Elka MK88 are hard to beat (if without USB connection). Both these feature polyphonic aftertouch!



Thanks! Do any of these have 88 keys?


----------



## David Enos (Dec 18, 2022)

ZeroZero said:


> The location of the Mod wheel on an 88 can be an issue. Try stretching your hand from your seating position to about 6 inches below CO and you will see. There are two ways around it, you can also map your MOD CC1 to a fader, or you can get a small independent back of faders which you can position exactly where your hand is comfortable. I purchased from xbox-one-modz on Ebay and am really pleased with them - well built. I paid £89 for eight faders - lunchbox size.
> The trap with controller keyboards is to think you need too much. The all singing and dancing keyboards take up too much space. For example do you really want hardware sequencer stop,rec and start buttons on your keyboard, or will you just still reach out of habit for that mouse?
> Many Controller keyboards are designed for synth control rather than composers. Loads of presets for your different synths that are found via deep dives. Do you want all this? Will you actually use it or will you simply right click and assign a knob or fader? CC control is often an after thought. Some (rare -can't remember which) require you to load a patch into your channel, simply to use them.
> I think faders are essential for composing. If you have three faders assigned say to CC1, CCII and CC7 and you want to grab them all whilst playing a string line in your right, this is possible. It's impossible to do this with three knobs.
> ...


Good points! Thank you


----------



## David Enos (Dec 18, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> Recently just upgraded to a launchkey 88 from my m audio keystation 61 and I love it! Highly recommend.


Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Dec 18, 2022)

I’m telling you, the new Novation launchkey 88 is fire!


----------



## David Enos (Dec 18, 2022)

Christian64 said:


> My set up:
> 
> - Arturia keylab essentiel 88
> - Annstweed midi controler 3 faders plus midi expression input
> ...


Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## David Enos (Dec 18, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I’m telling you, the new Novation launchkey 88 is fire!


Nice!


----------



## HCMarkus (Dec 18, 2022)

Regardless of which keyboard you choose, let me offer a couple of recommendations on controllers.

1. Get a Breath Controller. Set its main (Breath) CC to 01 and use it to do what the mod wheel does for most libraries. Set it to CC02 to control modeling stuff. Visit https://www.tecontrol.se to learn more, and don't overlook the BC2's added axes of control.

2. Get an Expression Pedal (this means you must pick a keyboard with an Expression Pedal jack) and set to CC11. I love the Yamaha FC7. Long throw, built like a tank, and an adjustable spring point if you like. (I don't use the spring, as it prevents resting the pedal at full-throw, but for Organ parts, the spring is very cool.) If you want to go pedal-mad, you can physically gang as many FC7s together as you like.

Using the Expression Pedal combined with BC or Modwheel is a great way to handle dynamic control, much better than two sliders IMO. BC is super intuitive, plus you have two hands free, which is great for playing complicated parts. Use the Modewheel in situations when long sustains or limited dynamic changes are called for. The Pedal is always there for you.

Sustain pedal, too, of course!


----------



## river angler (Dec 18, 2022)

David Enos said:


> Thanks! Do any of these have 88 keys?


Both the Roland A-80 and Elka MK88 MKI/II are 88 key piano weighted. Just google them for plenty of info! Both originate from the late 80s but there are many pros out there still using them!


----------



## David Enos (Dec 18, 2022)

HCMarkus said:


> Regardless of which keyboard you choose, let me offer a couple of recommendations on controllers.
> 
> 1. Get a Breath Controller. Set its main (Breath) CC to 01 and use it to do what the mod wheel does for most libraries. Set it to CC02 to control modeling stuff. Visit https://www.tecontrol.se to learn more, and don't overlook the BC2's added axes of control.
> 
> ...


I have the TEC BC2 controller. Love it! But I don't always use it for every library. Perhaps I will need to adjust the sensitivity and range per library. I find myself using it or the modwheel, depending on the library. I haven't got into CC11 expression control, mostly because to me that's something I handle during the mix stage (I also have worked as an audio engineer and this feels more natural and controllable to me). Different strokes, you know. I appreciate the comment!


----------



## David Enos (Dec 18, 2022)

HI all, think I've got it whittled down to two, the Novation Launchkey 88 MK3:






Launchkey 88 | Novation







novationmusic.com





and the Nektar Impact LX88+:









Impact LX88 Plus ▷ USB MIDI Controller Keyboard | 88 Keys | DAW Control


Impact LX88 Plus is a full-featured USB MIDI Controller with 88 semi-weighted keys, LED drum pads, faders, encoders and Nektar DAW Integration.




nektartech.com





It doesn't appear that either of these has aftertouch. Since my primary instrument is bass, does anyone have any prior experience with these companies and their build quality? I'd like to have something that will last a while and is versatile for a controller. Apparently both have semi-weighted keys. Any opinions would be appreciated, especially from pianists, thank you -


----------



## TintoL (Dec 18, 2022)

Baronvonheadless said:


> I’m telling you, the new Novation launchkey 88 is fire!


thanks for sharing. how are the keys? synth or semi weighted? these novation launchkey are great. curious abot the 88 one.


----------



## Baronvonheadless (Dec 18, 2022)

TintoL said:


> thanks for sharing. how are the keys? synth or semi weighted? these novation launchkey are great. curious abot the 88 one.


They're semi weighted. pretty nicely balanced. The pads are pretty good, don't use them TOO much but it's nice to have, the faders are cool as well. Slightly oddly placed but I usually just use the mod wheel playing live and you can fine tune other stuff later. 

OR 
you can also learn midi cc to the knobs above the pads and they're nice, especially for more experimental libraries when there's other parameters you wanna tweak vs the classic dynamic/expression like spitfire sets it up. etc. 
I think if you want 88 keys that can handle piano decently but can also handle faster instruments on the keys like drums or flutes or something that weighted keys would make laborious this is the one for you.


----------



## Grizzlymv (Dec 18, 2022)

David Enos said:


> Thanks! Do any of these have 88 keys?


Sadly no. I wish they would though. That being said I realized that i rarely do need the full ranger of the 88 keys at the same time with my workflow, so I'm good with the 61 so far. The integration with Cubase is really deep. I was impressed. Even without the need of the Nektarine software (which I'm quite happy).


----------

