# Project Sam LUMINA: out now



## Guy Rowland (Mar 6, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDuNaKxPXNo&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDuNaKxP ... e=youtu.be)

http://www.projectsam.com/index.php?id=2#

Excited (super).


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## doctornine (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Guy Rowland @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> Excited (super).



+1

:D


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## Ian Dorsch (Mar 6, 2013)

Seriously. Sounds amazing.

And surely this is the most expensive trailer ever for a sample library. :D


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## playz123 (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

Exciting, indeed. The trailer is excellent, with fabulous art work and scoring, and the demos are top notch too (Alex's also provided a chuckle  ).

Is that the final interface though? Not very attractive (in my opinion), and the colour is butt ugly (again in my opinion). However, it's the content and functionality that count in the long run I guess.

No word on cost yet, and we are in the "Q1 2013" scheduled release period, so hopefully more information will be available soon.


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## RasmusFors (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

Fancy Cg and a overproduced trailer wont make me buy it, but if it sounds as good as the trailer makes it sound, I will definitely buy it. Hope to see it in action soon :D


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 6, 2013)

Ian Dorsch @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> Seriously. Sounds amazing.
> 
> And surely this is the most expensive trailer ever for a sample library. :D



Yeah, that crossed my mind I must admit, along with the simultaneous thought that that fact would probably get discussed as much as the product itself.... but yeah, that sound. There's a helluva lot going on in there, from legato solo instruments through sweeping gliassandi to huge ensembles. And everything is 100% Lumina.

It's all gonna be about the workflow. It sounds incredible, obviously, but it's their screenshot that really has me intrigued. Getting results that good is amazing on its own, but if you can get results like that at speed... whoa.

Don't suppose Alex Pfeffer is allowed to chime in yet?


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## mark812 (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

It sounds like something from Eduardo Tarilonte.


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## handz (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

This is fantastic (trailer) really nicely done (in therms of how it is done without big prduction). 

I hope there will be a ton of legato instruments, those in Symp2 were great constidering how simple they are. 



playz123 @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> E
> Is that the final interface though? Not very attractive (in my opinion), and the colour is butt ugly (again in my opinion).




Haha it looks like a Sable one - so ugly indeed, Im surprised as PS have very nice graphic style on their prodcuts and trailer is bombastic, in contrast, interface is bit lacking.


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## mushanga (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

Sounds fantastic. I desperately hope there will be individual instruments and not only ensembles. I've become more and more accustomed to orchestrating this way, which has led me to use Symphobia a lot less in more recent works.

Looking forward to more info (except for price :( - wonder if there will be an introductory discount offer à la Spitfire?)


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



orchestranova @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> Sounds fantastic. I desperately hope there will be individual instruments and not only ensembles. I've become more and more accustomed to orchestrating this way, which has led me to use Symphobia a lot less in more recent works.
> 
> Looking forward to more info (except for price :( - wonder if there will be an introductory discount offer à la Spitfire?)



I'd be very surprised if it were arranged conventionally, so it may not be a product for you. In fact, I'd say it definitely isn't, based on the gui screen shot. It'll be combinations and some solo instruments it seems.

The Symphobia series has never been about standard orchestration, it's a completely different paradigm. It's one big glorious sounding cheat, designed specifically for fast working. Of course elements can be used in conventional composition, but it's not its raison d'etre.


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## George Caplan (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

i have symphobia 1. its great. this sounds good but the voices dont really cut for me at this point.


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## Maestro77 (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

Sounds amazing. Re: the interface: to me it looks consistent with the rest of the PS line. I think they like to stick with that similar style (OE was a different story).


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Maestro77 @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> Sounds amazing. Re: the interface: to me it looks consistent with the rest of the PS line. I think they like to stick with that similar style (OE was a different story).



Do you think? I think it looks quite different actually. It looks like they're taking the concept of their multis and building patches around them, resulting in a different approach. I may be wrong, but we might not get conventional strings / brass patches at all this time.

For me, this is great. As I said in the other thread, the multis were such a disappointment in S2 compared to S1, they weren't really playable. Probably they didn't have the complete elements to do them justice. My sense here is that they've rethought that whole concept from the ground up, and patches are based on moods ("Freaky Fair" / "Trail Through the Forest") - and rather than it being either all or nothing or just zones on a keyboard you use keyswitches to add or subtract all the different layers. Really interesting idea.


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## Maestro77 (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

@Guy: I was only referring to the appearance of the UI (colors/layout), not the patch construction. I agree, I'm looking forward to more info about how they've laid out the ensembles. But the look of the UI, in my opinion, is consistent with their other stuff.


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## Ed (Mar 6, 2013)

:shock: damn I really hope this is as good as it seems to be, maybe there was a reason Project Sam have been silent for years. I was going to give this a pass until I heard these demos. This seems to have everything! 

So many exciting things coming in 2013


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Maestro77 @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> @Guy: I was only referring to the appearance of the UI (colors/layout), not the patch construction. I agree, I'm looking forward to more info about how they've laid out the ensembles. But the look of the UI, in my opinion, is consistent with their other stuff.



Oh gotya - yeah agreed.


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## deniz (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

The Trailer reminds me to Sonokinetic.Sound good to me totally different to Symphobia 1-2,but what about Patch List?

Price?


Cheers


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## quantum7 (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



deniz @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> Price?



If it is anything like Symphobia......I would say it's going to be expensive.


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## EforEclectic (Mar 6, 2013)

Eagerly awaiting more info. Demos have me VERY interested.


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## mushanga (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Guy Rowland @ Wed 06 Mar said:


> orchestranova @ Wed Mar 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds fantastic. I desperately hope there will be individual instruments and not only ensembles. I've become more and more accustomed to orchestrating this way, which has led me to use Symphobia a lot less in more recent works.
> ...



I accept that, however it would be nice for there to be sections within sections at the very least. In other words, strings could be divided into Violins I, II, Violas, Cellos and Basses...brass into Trumpets, Horns and so on. I hate, for example, writing a Viola line in their lower register and then suddenly hearing the Cellos come through too. That's definitely a limitation for me with Symphobia 1...I think it's handled better in Symphobia 2 by the looks of things but still not to the degree I wish for.


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## germancomponist (Mar 6, 2013)

Wasn't Thomas J. Bergersen a demo maker for PS in the past? I would like to listen to a demo, done by himself. 

This library seems to be cool.


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## Ed (Mar 6, 2013)

germancomponist @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> Wasn't Thomas J. Bergersen a demo maker for PS in the past? I would like to listen to a demo, done by himself.



I think TJs demos are great for developers, not so great for everyone else


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## germancomponist (Mar 6, 2013)

Ed @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> germancomponist @ Wed Mar 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Wasn't Thomas J. Bergersen a demo maker for PS in the past? I would like to listen to a demo, done by himself.
> ...



Ha ha, for this theme, we need a new thread, Ed! o-[][]-o


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## RiffWraith (Mar 6, 2013)

Ed @ Thu Mar 07 said:


> germancomponist @ Wed Mar 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Wasn't Thomas J. Bergersen a demo maker for PS in the past? I would like to listen to a demo, done by himself.
> ...



Yeah - when everyone else gets the library home, and finds themselves saying, "now, why doesnt this sound like the demo?!?!"



> Price?



I would imagine somewhere in the $1200 USD range.


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## shakuman (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

Awesome + Awesome >8o must buy.


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## radec (Mar 6, 2013)

really lookin forward to symphobia 3 now, have the others and this will be a for sure buy for me i think.



Ed @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> I think TJs demos are great for developers, not so great for everyone else


why are they bad for everyone else? if he is using the product there is nothin he is doing that someone at home couldnt potentially learn to do. to me demos by people like tj and andy b are 'here is what you can do if you know what youre doing' demos.


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## zacnelson (Mar 6, 2013)

Wow!


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## Ed (Mar 6, 2013)

radec @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> why are they bad for everyone else? if he is using the product there is nothin he is doing that someone at home couldnt potentially learn to do. to me demos by people like tj and andy b are 'here is what you can do if you know what youre doing' demos.



Back in the days of Roland and Ultimate Strings people were accusing him of lying about his tracks being samples, thats how good he is.Its bad for everyone else because TJ is the master of sample mockups so its almost impossible to know what you're actually getting. I'd want to buy those old libs today as well based on his old tracks, but I certainly wouldnt be able to do what he did with them, neither could anyone else. The only difference is today he actually has really great sounds so the difference isnt quite so obvious.


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## radec (Mar 6, 2013)

Ed @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> Back in the days of Roland and Ultimate Strings people were accusing him of lying about his tracks being samples, thats how good he is.Its bad for everyone else because TJ is the master of sample mockups so its almost impossible to know what you're actually getting. I'd want to buy those old libs today as well based on his old tracks, but I certainly wouldnt be able to do what he did with them, neither could anyone else. The only difference is today he actually has really great sounds so the difference isnt quite so obvious.


his mock ups sound incredible im not denying, but he was still using the same tools everyone else was getting. in my eyes you are getting exactly what he used and so you know the potential of your purchase. whether you can utilise it to his level equally is down to yourself. 

if you are both using the same hammer tho and youre not getting the same results, you need to practice with the hammer some more, or beef up those arms


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## Ed (Mar 6, 2013)

radec @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> his mock ups sound incredible im not denying, but he was still using the same tools everyone else was getting. in my eyes you are getting exactly what he used and so you know the potential of your purchase. whether you can utilise it to his level equally is down to yourself.
> 
> if you are both using the same hammer tho and youre not getting the same results, you need to practice with the hammer some more, or beef up those arms



The point is it is not really representative of the library. He could sell us Ultimate Strings today and people would love it, until they bought it. As I say, great for devs, not so great for customers trying to get an idea of whats in the library. Thats not just true for TJ, but he's one of the most extreme examples of this


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## playz123 (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

This situation with demos has been going on ever since demos began, and it's not just TJ's pieces that are often difficult to duplicate even if one has the same library. I'm the first to admit that often there are composers and musicians who are simply better than some of the rest of us, and just seem to be able to do far more, even if we all have the same libraries. I enjoy hearing demos, and I try to learn from them etc., but I don't base a purchasing decision solely on what others can do. What I do look for are informative walkthroughs instead, and I also enjoy viewing tutorials that involve a product I've purchased or plan to purchase. That's why videos like those from Daniel James, Alex and others are so valuable. But even with training and all the years of experience I've had in music, I'll still never be as good as many of those composing and presenting some of the demos we hear today....and that's okay too.


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## Udo (Mar 6, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

It should be made mandatory for developers to put up at least some demos for which midi files are available by top mock-up makers.


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## germancomponist (Mar 6, 2013)

Yeah, compare this demo: http://www.sample-modeling.com/Demos/Th ... rumpet.mp3 to this: https://soundcloud.com/projectsam/drunk ... injas-from

huh...?


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 7, 2013)

germancomponist @ Thu Mar 07 said:


> Yeah, compare this demo: http://www.sample-modeling.com/Demos/Th ... rumpet.mp3 to this: https://soundcloud.com/projectsam/drunk ... injas-from
> 
> huh...?



Huh indeed? As in... huh? What's your point?

On the general point of trying stuff, don't forget that, delightfully, Project Sam are part of TrySound. From memory it might take a few weeks / months to appear, but that's pretty much the best way to trial stuff you're not quite sure about imo. Video walkthroughs also useful of course.

It's all well and good releasing midi files, but of course you can only make use of them when you own the library. So not sure how helpful that really is when evaluating. Interesting though.


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## germancomponist (Mar 7, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Thu Mar 07 said:


> germancomponist @ Thu Mar 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, compare this demo: http://www.sample-modeling.com/Demos/Th ... rumpet.mp3 to this: https://soundcloud.com/projectsam/drunk ... injas-from
> ...



Agreed! TrySound is the best solution.


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## Waywyn (Mar 7, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

Thanks playz123 for the kind words!



Udo @ Thu Mar 07 said:


> It should be made mandatory for developers to put up at least some demos for which midi files are available by top mock-up makers.



As for me, I wouldn't have a problem to hand out MIDIs if the company would really ask for or demand it to clarify how the lib works (or can work) ... however, on the other side (and again, I can just speak for myself) I do a lot of walkthroughs and videos. So MIDI and CC info should be visible and audible in all details (mostly at 1080p )

The big downside with handing out Midi data is the danger of some people may just ripping off parts from a track, do a bit of rearrangement and sell it as license music. As an example it even happened with a full demo track of mine that someone pretend he wrote it and kind of decorated his portfolio. In another case, someone simply took a demo from me, composed a few layers above it and sold it as license music!

@Guy: I can say that much that I will definitely provide a walkthrough soon!


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## Daniel James (Mar 7, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Waywyn @ Thu Mar 07 said:


> Thanks playz123 for the kind words!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think I am with Alex on this one. Having done a few demos myself, some of the techniques I use are things personal to me that I have developed and I don't really just want to give those away for free.

In all fairness if you hear it in the demo it can be done. It may not sound like that out of the box but its been proven it can be done. Yes people like TJB can produce amazing demos that others struggle for but thats what makes TJB sound like TJB.

Remember your ability to compose should dictate how good your music is, not the samples you make it with. Lol its sort of like buying a new paint set and complaining you cant make it look as good as Claude Monet or a Picasso, even though they used the same colour pallets. 

That brings around an interesting topic for debate. Are people now buying libraries to do the work for them? Could be a fun one 

-DJ


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## Waywyn (Mar 7, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Daniel James @ Thu Mar 07 said:


> Yes people like TJB can produce amazing demos that others struggle for but thats what makes TJB sound like TJB



just as a little add here, since this is the point Daniel has mentioned regarding demos in general and especially demos done by Thomas. It is mostly hard to relate it from audio material (even for us composers sometimes), but think of a sample library as a bag of colors pencils and someone (in this special case TJ) has been hired to paint a picture. Noone would expect to paint a picture as TJ did ... while with a sample library sometimes there seems to be an expectation which lets people think they could do by just buying it (and in some cases think, demos are falsifying the presentation of a library).


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## Christof (Mar 7, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



> Yeah, compare this demo: http://www.sample-modeling.com/Demos/Th ... rumpet.mp3 to this: https://soundcloud.com/projectsam/drunk ... injas-from
> 
> huh...?



So what?
Both pieces have the same character.I enjoyed listening to both of them.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 7, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Waywyn @ Thu Mar 07 said:


> @Guy: I can say that much that I will definitely provide a walkthrough soon!



Excellent! Looking forward to that.

[as an aside, Alex remember I had a quality problem with your last walkthrough? I think I might have found the problem. On my browser (Chrome) sometimes the quality rate doesn't change even though it says it has. I had it again recently and I had to close the tab completely and start from scratch, then it worked. So I was probably streaming at the lowest quality and all would have been fine your end. Cheers!)


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## KEnK (Mar 7, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

As to the Trailer-

Personally I don't gravitate towards the fantasy land stuff,
so the trailer says nothing to me at all about the product.
If anything I'm getting the likely wrong impression that it's another "epic library"
bathed in to much reverb.

When I listen to the SC demos (esp Alex's) I can hear more of what it might be.
And not to much reverb at all.

So, is it a good trailer if I immediately get the wrong idea about the product?

Castles and floating rocks, bah...
Where's the Dragon?
:roll: 
k


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## reddognoyz (Mar 7, 2013)

I always find it deceiving, not intentionally, when library developers do a walk-through or play some parts on something they've been working on for months and months. It sounds so easy, and then I'm disappointed when I purchase the library and I can't immediately play it out of the box as well as I heard it played by the people who made it after working with it for months! I think some generic midi sequences that show off the best features of the library and how to bring them using out would be helpful and wouldn't give away any personal or trade secrets. You're still going to have to put in the legwork to make these VIs really shine for you though. I spent a long long time trying to wrestle LASS into something I could really understand and exploite. Well worth the time and effort though.


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## George Caplan (Mar 7, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

the issue i may have would be when i see elven voices. and it sounds like a synth. but there must be a lot more to it than that.


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## Waywyn (Mar 7, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Guy Rowland @ Thu Mar 07 said:


> Waywyn @ Thu Mar 07 said:
> 
> 
> > @Guy: I can say that much that I will definitely provide a walkthrough soon!
> ...



Ahh, great to hear, thanks for the feedback!


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## rayinstirling (Mar 7, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Guy Rowland @ Thu Mar 07 said:


> as an aside, Alex remember I had a quality problem with your last walkthrough? I think I might have found the problem. On my browser (Chrome) sometimes the quality rate doesn't change even though it says it has. I had it again recently and I had to close the tab completely and start from scratch, then it worked. So I was probably streaming at the lowest quality and all would have been fine your end. Cheers!)


Thanks for that info Guy,
Recently I've noticed problems streaming mp3 here but I never gave it a thought it could be the browser (Chrome)
Having just checked a few audio files posted on another forum, they play perfectly well in Explorer.


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## cc64 (Mar 7, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

I appreciate that for the Lumina demos they specify it's 100% Lumina.

Sometimes the demos are made up of a lot of different libs and real instruments and it's impossible to know what the new advertised library is doing in the whole mix. I appreciate the (naked demos) from 8DIO for this reason.

Claude


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## Caedwallon (Mar 8, 2013)

I'm actually excited for LUMINA. Usually, the only things I'm pumped for, are Spitfire's increasingly kick-ass creations.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 11, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

Hey look, a video of Cubase of Alex's track here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AWQb50oeGi8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... WQb50oeGi8)

Also a new demo here - https://soundcloud.com/projectsam/the-s ... an-torrent

The video gives me the first twinges of concern - Unveiled Mysteries @25s looks like just a texture pad. I was hoping from the screenshots it would all be elements and layers. Everything sounds terrific, just a case of how flexible it is I guess.


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## playz123 (Mar 11, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

Your second link gives a 404 error here.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 11, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



playz123 @ Mon Mar 11 said:


> Your second link gives a 404 error here.



Rogue character at the end - amended now, cheers.


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## George Caplan (Mar 11, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*

im getting the same here frank.

must say im not sure about the video. dont get it at the moment.

edit thanks guy. im not hearing anything you couldnt do with the current crop of whats already available.


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## Waywyn (Mar 11, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Guy Rowland @ Mon Mar 11 said:


> Hey look, a video of Cubase of Alex's track here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AWQb50oeGi8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... WQb50oeGi8)
> 
> Also a new demo here - https://soundcloud.com/projectsam/the-s ... an-torrent
> 
> The video gives me the first twinges of concern - Unveiled Mysteries @25s looks like just a texture pad. I was hoping from the screenshots it would all be elements and layers. Everything sounds terrific, just a case of how flexible it is I guess.



I can't say too much yet ... but maybe things become more clear if you check the GUI screenies which have been recently posted on ProjectSAMs FB page!


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 11, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Waywyn @ Mon Mar 11 said:


> I can't say too much yet ... but maybe things become more clear if you check the GUI screenies which have been recently posted on ProjectSAMs FB page!



I've poured over them for some time, Alex! What I noticed in your video though was a couple of patches don't have those keyswitches with the different elements, which concerns me a little. I really like the idea of patches being grouped with different elements that can be combined or solo'd, but if it's just one element, it's obviously much less versatile.

That said, Unveiled Mystery does sound VERY nicely layered for just one patch with no keyswitches. I do find the whole concept very attractive - looking forward to you being able to talk freely!


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## Waywyn (Mar 11, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Guy Rowland @ Mon Mar 11 said:


> Waywyn @ Mon Mar 11 said:
> 
> 
> > I can't say too much yet ... but maybe things become more clear if you check the GUI screenies which have been recently posted on ProjectSAMs FB page!
> ...



Haha, sorry for acting like that totally annoying mystery fairy b*tch! :D ... but look at the GUI more closely. When you stay at the left side ... Do you maybe see something else which may be helpful for layering?


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 11, 2013)

Ach, too cryptic! Do you mean in Unveiled Mysteries? I see the 2 dynamic layers comment, and I heard interesting things coming and going with CC1, but I wouldn't be able to just have the woodwinds or the harp glissandi I don't think (he said, knowing you can't answer). The patches like Trail Through The Woods and Tiptoe obviously have all that lovely keyswitch layering though. My guess is that the former patch is a texture with melodic elements based round a root note, the latter are conventionally playable.

Anyway, can't be too long now before your embargo is lifted - hopefully they're still on for a Q1 release, which by my watch is 3 weeks or so...


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## mk282 (Mar 12, 2013)

Ian Dorsch @ 6.3.2013 said:


> And surely this is the most expensive trailer ever for a sample library. :D



That's why they overprice their libraries, to recoup the investment in (completely unnecessary) 3D animation trailer. :roll:


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## renochew (Mar 12, 2013)

mk282 @ Tue Mar 12 said:


> Ian Dorsch @ 6.3.2013 said:
> 
> 
> > And surely this is the most expensive trailer ever for a sample library. :D
> ...



To be fair, no the trailer won't cost a lot because as far as I can tell, most (if not all) the animation are 2D matte paint which can even be done by one matte painter freelancer, in contrary for a team and a decent machine power if it is a full blown 3D animation. Add to the cost is an actor shot on greenscreen maybe, which won't cost a lot too.


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## mk282 (Mar 12, 2013)

Can't you notice sarcasm :D


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## Mike Connelly (Mar 12, 2013)

One thing I noticed in the video is the articulation legato to short note. That's one thing I feel can be hard to get right with samples. Most libraries have short notes and they do sound much better than playing a short note on a sustain patch. But there's the special case of legato phrases ending with a short note, a slur to a short, whether it's a long note slurring to a short, or a faster slurred passage that ends on a short.

There may be ways to fake it with programming but if they actually recorded that as a performed articulation I really want to hear what the results sound like. And if it works well, hopefully other libraries will do the same.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 12, 2013)

Mike Connelly @ Tue Mar 12 said:


> One thing I noticed in the video is the articulation legato to short note. That's one thing I feel can be hard to get right with samples. Most libraries have short notes and they do sound much better than playing a short note on a sustain patch. But there's the special case of legato phrases ending with a short note, a slur to a short, whether it's a long note slurring to a short, or a faster slurred passage that ends on a short.
> 
> There may be ways to fake it with programming but if they actually recorded that as a performed articulation I really want to hear what the results sound like. And if it works well, hopefully other libraries will do the same.



Yes, I clocked that too - with no apparent control for it, I presume it's done on hard key velocity or something (with cc1 controlling normal velocity). Definitely an interesting idea.


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## G.R. Baumann (Mar 12, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



Daniel James @ Thu Mar 07 said:


> Lol its sort of like buying a new paint set and complaining you cant make it look as good as Claude Monet



=o :lol: Very nice! I always liked the analogy of colors. While in former times we had something like a subset of web compatible colors available, nowadays we're approaching the full ProPhotoRGB spectrum fast. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProPhoto_RGB_color_space I think both, photographers and musicians, never had it any better in terms of affordable tools available to them.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 14, 2013)

Oh lordy, bring it. A timeline video of the trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=amNz5U_k9kw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... mNz5U_k9kw)


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos*



orchestranova @ Wed Mar 06 said:


> Sounds fantastic. I desperately hope there will be individual instruments and not only ensembles. I've become more and more accustomed to orchestrating this way, which has led me to use Symphobia a lot less in more recent works.
> 
> Looking forward to more info (except for price :( - wonder if there will be an introductory discount offer à la Spitfire?)



Colour me surprised - on the latest video screencast you can see the chamber orchestra patch has v1, v2, va and va + c all on keyswitches. 

Lots of legato patches too, so far I've seen

Tin Whistle
Alto Recorder
Oboe
Clarinet
Trumpet
Soprano Voice

Loads of combos too of course. Looks like a very broad sweep.

Most importantly, there is also a patch called Kick The Ogre.


----------



## mark812 (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

But many are 2 dynamics only. :(


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



mark812 @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> But many are 2 dynamics only. :(



True, but many Symphobia patches are only 2 layers and work incredibly well. Some of the S2 legatos were only 1 layer!

Well, what I've heard so far sounds incredible...


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## MA-Simon (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

I think 90% of Albion I uses only 2 layers and it works nicely.


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## rocking.xmas.man (Mar 14, 2013)

that may be because they are not writing the number of layers on the gui. If the amount of layers works good no one should care how much of them are used. So writing tec specs on the gui seems a bit ridiculous to me


----------



## doctornine (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

You had me at : Kick the Ogre.

~o)


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## mark812 (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



MA-Simon @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> I think 90% of Albion I uses only 2 layers and it works nicely.



Agreed, I love Albion I and Lumina sounds good, but Albion's price is significantly lower than Symphobias'.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



mark812 @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> Completely agree, I love Albion I and Lumina sounds really good, but Albion's price is significantly lower than Symphobias'.



Very apples and oranges imo. Albion and Orchestral Essentials are similar products in terms of scope (significant differences of course) but even S1 is quite different to Albion. S3 will bear no resemblance whatsoever, you may as well compare it to Battery 4. 

Price always gets mentioned with Project Sam products. More than anything else, it seems to me that they are aimed squarely at the working media composer and - have to say - not so much for mockups, but for finished articles. LUMINA I'd imagine will be an orchestrator's nightmare. But for those who primarily use VIs in their final works, their approach pays for itself in the blink of an eye.

'Course, the money discussion now dovetails into the "putting musicians out of work" discussion...


----------



## mark812 (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

Guy, I've noticed that you always get very defensive when ProjectSAM or Spectrasonics are being discussed. Relax.  

I didn't say that they should price their products less or anything like that, just that they maybe should've included more dynamic layers, it would be more easier to justify the price tag. 

Also, Albion I has around 170 patches with 4 mic positions. OE has 52 with 1 mic position, so I don't see how are those 2 comparable at all.


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## George Caplan (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



mark812 @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> MA-Simon @ Thu Mar 14 said:
> 
> 
> > I think 90% of Albion I uses only 2 layers and it works nicely.
> ...



i have albion 1 and symphobia 1. theyre really good. what i would like to know is based on the sounds from lumina so far is........who is this aimed at? is it for video gaming productions?


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



mark812 @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> Guy, I've noticed that you always get very defensive when ProjectSAM or Spectrasonics are being discussed. Relax.
> 
> I didn't say that they should price their products less or anything like that, just that they maybe should've included more dynamic layers, it would be more easier to justify the price tag.
> 
> Also, Albion I has around 170 patches with 4 mic positions. OE has 52 with 1 mic position, so I don't see how are those 2 comparable at all.



Well I'm a funny old fanboy - I never bought Symphobia 2 cos it didn't work for me and argued quite vociferously about it at the time I seem to remember. Spectrasonics too I've been giving poor Eric rather a hard time of late so... um.....

However, both companies have great customer service and produce fantastic products, so I'm always keen to see what they're up to. Is that bad?  

No point in going into patch comparisons between OE and Albion as again the bald figures are apples and oranges (Spifire list variations as separate patches, just for starters). But as ground covered, the two are conceptually similar imo in as much as they cover the broad strokes of ensembles of the entire orchestra - both of course have their own strengths and weaknesses (broadly - Albion has some more details, OE has more breadth). No point in going on about that any more as its OT for this thread, but perhaps it deserves its own?

I just don't buy your logic that you need more dynamic layers to justify a higher price tag (or is that not what you are saying?) I mean, I see it to a point - one of the reasons I didn't go for S2 is that many of the legatos had only one dynamic layer, which is too limiting imo (though can work surprisingly well in some cases). But once you've gone beyond one, it's just a case of how well it works in practice - that's all I care about to be honest.

My main argument is that based on what we know already, conceptually Lumina is a totally different animal to Albion so comparing prices seems rather pointless - and that's before we even know a) what the price is and b) what the full content is.

George - it's aimed at media composers (film / tv / game).


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## Ed (Mar 14, 2013)

Anyone posted this one yet?

https://soundcloud.com/projectsam/behin ... n-lies-our

Those woods, damn they sound good. SAM should do a dedicated ethnic wood lib


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## Ed (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



George Caplan @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> i have albion 1 and symphobia 1. theyre really good. what i would like to know is based on the sounds from lumina so far is........who is this aimed at? is it for video gaming productions?



Can you really not hear any difference between these products? All the legato instruments, all the fantasy FX (which is pretty new btw) etc


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## handz (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

Legato Obe, Legato Clarinet, Legato soprano...mmm yeah...yeaaaah baby. Hope there will be also Bassoon and new flute (the old one is cool but not for a delicate stuff) 

Price point will be only downer again here for many people, which is sad.


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## germancomponist (Mar 14, 2013)

Ed @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> Anyone posted this one yet?
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/projectsam/behin ... n-lies-our
> 
> Those woods, damn they sound good. SAM should do a dedicated ethnic wood lib



+1

Superb!


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## Cowtothesky (Mar 14, 2013)

Ed @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> Anyone posted this one yet?
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/projectsam/behin ... n-lies-our
> 
> Those woods, damn they sound good. SAM should do a dedicated ethnic wood lib



That is fantastic. I'm glad they are focusing on wood legatos, yet making it a complete standalone library. I hear quite a few flutes going on, including a scottish flute. I'm loving the choir. They have my attention with this one.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 14, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



handz @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> Legato Obe, Legato Clarinet, Legato soprano...mmm yeah...yeaaaah baby. Hope there will be also Bassoon and new flute (the old one is cool but not for a delicate stuff)



Ooh, I think a flute snuck in @1'01 doubled with the sporano?

Cowtothesky - I think the Scottish flute is the tin whistle, isn't it?


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## Cowtothesky (Mar 15, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



Guy Rowland @ Fri Mar 15 said:


> handz @ Thu Mar 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Legato Obe, Legato Clarinet, Legato soprano...mmm yeah...yeaaaah baby. Hope there will be also Bassoon and new flute (the old one is cool but not for a delicate stuff)
> ...



Yes, I believe so. I also hear the flute doubled with the soprano as well. Looks like quite a few legato woods are in this library, which is great.


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## dpasdernick (Mar 15, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

Two words... "How Much?"


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## jcs88 (Mar 16, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

Check out Forest Kingdom 2 if you like this sort of stuff.


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## George Caplan (Mar 16, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



jcs88 @ Sat Mar 16 said:


> Check out Forest Kingdom 2 if you like this sort of stuff.



for sure. +1.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 16, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



jcs88 @ Sat Mar 16 said:


> Check out Forest Kingdom 2 if you like this sort of stuff.



Forest Kingdom is an excellent library, but it's clearly very different to this, despite ticking a "fantasy" box. This is broadly an orchestral library skewed towards the mystical / magical / epic / comedy, with some additional non-orchestral elements. Forest Kingdom is terrific collection of non-orchestral mystical solo instruments, effects and ambiances.


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## Caedwallon (Mar 17, 2013)

I get pumped up every time I see this thread. This is pretty awesome.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 18, 2013)

Caedwallon @ Sun Mar 17 said:


> I get pumped up every time I see this thread. This is pretty awesome.



Me too (obviously, by the sheer number of posts I've made here).

I think part of the reason I'm so psyched is that this is the product I described in my disappointment of Symphobia 2. There'll be a thread and a post here somewhere from 2 or 3 years ago where I list my s2 gripes - legato range too short, glitches on cc1, too many instruments with only 1 dynamic layer etc. But alongside those bread and butter criticisms, I was railing against the overall direction of S2 for being more of the same. The effects were overwhelmingly in the horror / thriller area again, and I argued that so much more was possible in other genres that was being overlooked. I argued that small was being overlooked. I argued that the multis had lost their way, that it was just laying out patches across a keyboard that were a) impossible to play real time and b) not much practical use (some in S1 even come into this category). It was many of the highly playable multis in S1 that got me so excited in the first place.

While updates to S2 addressed many of the technical concerns. S3 seems to have addressed every one of those conceptual areas head on, I feel instinctively I got it from the first announcement. It feels like its coming at a turning point in sample libraries away from the huge and the dark, which is exciting - that was only ever just a subset of what film and TV music was all about. Symphonic Sphere was a nod in that direction too of course, but its range will be considerably smaller than this. The Sable range of course focuses on the small and detailed. And here's Project Sam, who have always brought such an incredible sound to whatever they do, to give us the broad sweep of many of those areas, the ability to (hopefully) properly compose at speed with such sonic integrity.

Even though this will demonstrably still do plenty of big and epic, look at the instruments that come with it - solo legatos and chamber sized strings. This should be a such a great combination with what has gone before. Look at the categories in the patch names - Fantasy, Mystery, Cartoon. S1 had some mulits steered towards comedy, but it's great to see animation tackled head on - I've always thought this is huge relatively untapped market.

Perhaps S2 was always a necessary expansion to S1 that was never going to feel as revolutionary as the first. Truth told, it's probably time for another price re-evaluation on both, given the wider developments in the industry, and I wouldn't begrudge that for a second. But Lumina should give so many new colours on such a wide canvas, it looks essential to me for anyone who has to compose for a broad range of genres on silly deadlines.


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## Ed (Mar 18, 2013)

New demo, in a more childrens comedy thing:

https://soundcloud.com/projectsam/holy-moly-joep-sporck


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 18, 2013)

Ed @ Mon Mar 18 said:


> New demo, in a more childrens comedy thing:
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/projectsam/holy-moly-joep-sporck



Good stuff again, and smart to emphasise the other facets to the library beyond fantasy. I think it's a good move to do a demo to appeal to composers in the animation industry, and in that mid section you can hear how it can lean towards the gothic too.

They should post all the video walkthroughs soon after the demos, that sells it more imo seeing what the constituent parts are. You get a better feel of how you can integrate it into your workflow.

Right, time for them to give us the full details I reckon. They said release in Q1 2013, that's 13 days and counting....


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## re-peat (Mar 18, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

Guy,

Lumina really has got its hooks into you, hasn’t it? I don’t hear it, I must say. I really don't. First time ever, in fact, that a new ProjectSAM library announcement leaves me completely indifferent, and all of the demo-material released thusfar makes me even less and less interested and enthusiastic. Several of these demos I’m even surprised about that ProjectSAM actually approved them for public release, sounding as weak and poorly-produced as they do. (This last one in particular is far below the usual SAM-standard, if you ask me: no spatial consistency whatsoever, and some of its instruments sounding as if they were lifted from an EMU Proteus rather than belonging in a high-quality 2013 sample-library.)

Might change my opinion once we know a bit more about the actual contents, but so far, Lumina hasn’t managed to create even the tiniest amount of excitement for me. It doesn’t seem to contain much which we don’t already have many times over, and not only that, but for most of the stuff which it does seem to contain, I can immediately think of more appealing alternatives. That was never the case with the two previous Symphobias.

_


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 18, 2013)

Blimey Piet! Admittedly I am indeed suckered into this, but with that amount of hyperbole... well, if I didn't know better I'd think you were trying to provoke a reaction...


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## mark812 (Mar 18, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



Guy Rowland @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> I just don't buy your logic that you need more dynamic layers to justify a higher price tag (or is that not what you are saying?) I mean, I see it to a point - one of the reasons I didn't go for S2 is that many of the legatos had only one dynamic layer, which is too limiting imo (though can work surprisingly well in some cases). But once you've gone beyond one, it's just a case of how well it works in practice - that's all I care about to be honest.



So you don't care if a $1399 product has many patches that have 1 dynamic layer only? Yeah, I think that it should have more. I guess that you're a fanboy indeed.


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## George Caplan (Mar 18, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

like Piet i might have a change of mind but hopefully project sam havent produced a turkey because symphobia 1 is really good sounding. from what ive heard so far this sounds like a synth apart from just maybe a string line i caught. if its the sound that people want for their fantasy adventure videos then this will work for them. must hear more as in naked patches.


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## re-peat (Mar 18, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Mon Mar 18 said:


> Blimey Piet! Admittedly I am indeed suckered into this, but with that amount of hyperbole... well, if I didn't know better I'd think you were trying to provoke a reaction...


Not trying to provoke anything. I just can’t get excited by what I’m hearing, that’s all. And I am honestly puzzled by the overal poor quality level of the demos (both musically and technically), which I find most un-SAM-like. Seriously, that Maarten allowed amateuristic futzing such as that last demo (and some of the earlier ones) to march in front of SAM”s new and long-awaited release, is something which surprises me. It all sounds like a different ProjectSAM than the ProjectSAM which released the previous two Symphobias. Sorry.

But like I said, this might not be my final word on the subject. As the Dutch know a thing or two about artificial light, there’s good reason to assume that Lumina will deliver. But for that to happen, it'll have to be a whole lot better than what has surfaced so far.

_


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## dcoscina (Mar 18, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

I must agree with re-peat. Thus far, none of the demos have inspired the "must have" reaction from me. I don't think the musicality of the demos is as bad as he does though. 

That said, I own a LOT of PS libraries. Symphobia 1 and 2, True Strike 1, Sam Horns, Sam Solo Sessions, Orchestral Essentials, etc. They quality in their sounds is usually pretty top drawer. I am curious as to whether the Spitfire Audio releases will have any effect on the price tag.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 19, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



mark812 @ Mon Mar 18 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Thu Mar 14 said:
> 
> 
> > I just don't buy your logic that you need more dynamic layers to justify a higher price tag (or is that not what you are saying?) I mean, I see it to a point - one of the reasons I didn't go for S2 is that many of the legatos had only one dynamic layer, which is too limiting imo (though can work surprisingly well in some cases). But once you've gone beyond one, it's just a case of how well it works in practice - that's all I care about to be honest.
> ...



Umm.... since what you quoted of mine and what you then concluded are polar opposites, I'll, um... just leave that with you.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 19, 2013)

re-peat @ Mon Mar 18 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Mon Mar 18 said:
> 
> 
> > Blimey Piet! Admittedly I am indeed suckered into this, but with that amount of hyperbole... well, if I didn't know better I'd think you were trying to provoke a reaction...
> ...



Intriguing...

So let's start with those demos. To my ears the best ones are Luminous Days, The Sylvan Path, Behind That Mountain and the Teaser. None of these are musically complex or rich in the way that, say, the Sable demos are, but that's irrelevant to me (in fact, some of the Sable demos were so musically accomplished, it was almost distracting... I was admiring the composition more than the samples).

Maybe I approach demos differently, I don't know. But when I listen to these I'm thinking about the overall sound (obviously) and - crucially - how hard they are to create. And importantly, many of the demos sound like underscore to me, which is the intended use in so many cases. Now obviously I don't hear them as you do as in each of the 4 I mentioned, there's very little I'd want to change in terms of the feel / genre they care capturing. It sounds cohesive (actually the little percussive rolls in Behind That Mountain sound too present to me, but that was about it listening again). The solo instruments all sound excellent, as do the voices. All the right colours are there, present and correct for what they are going for. So - for me - that's a big tick for the sound.

The rest is the context. The raison d'etre for the Symphobia series is speed for me. It's to enable 10 minutes a day with a good sounding result. So where else do they take the series? It's pretty pointless to break down the instrument groups from their ensembles - I have enough string, brass, wood and percussion libraries, and I'm not really needing more staccs and spiccs even from the mighty Project Sam (besides which, if the library was something like 10x the size to cover each instrument, I'd probably need to sell the house to buy it). The logical place to go is the one in which they have indeed gone - to keep the notion of ensembles and combos, but to broaden it out massively into the areas it can cover, broadly speaking skewed towards the light rather then the dark. Conceptually, that is exactly right I think.

And by the looks of the UI, they've worked very hard at moving on the concept of the combos / multis, an area I was particularly disappointed in S2. Even within a patch that contains several layering keyswitches, the individual elements are things like "Orch and Choir sustain" or "piano, harp and vibes". Although it does have plenty of single / ensemble instruments, that's the focus here... minutes per day. Filling out a sound with just a handful of patches at the most. Bang, on to the next. That may well be depressing to some here, and I'd totally understand why. It requires far less compositional skill, and the end product won't have the same level of depth and detail - it's obvious if you're using a "piano, harp and vibes" patch, you won't have written different parts for all three, so there's a good chance that's less musically interesting in pure terms.

The Symphobias are designed as work horses, albeit fine looking / sounding ones. If it has enough successful tricks up its sleeve to improve productivity by a minute a day, it'll more than earn its keep.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 19, 2013)

...and there is the video playback of yesterday's cartoon cue - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2mSv4brM8ZI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... mSv4brM8ZI) . Cartoon effects, falls, chords and phrase patches... the word "phrase" always bothers me, but they are described as "gestures" in the gui. Will be a shame if that little descending motif in the demo is a phrase... little flourishes are fine, but it all becomes waaaaay less useful the moment its baked into actual true phrases.


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## zacnelson (Mar 19, 2013)

I'm probably not in a position right now to be spending $1k on a libary, however I must interject here to say that I've been eagerly listening to the demos for Lumina and I think they are simply gorgeous, both compositionally and `spatially' or whatever term you want to use to describe the quality of the mixing and the cohesion of the instruments. 

Especially when you consider that these demos have been created using Lumina EXCLUSIVELY, I believe that Project SAM create a wonderful impression on customers with the professionalism of their website, their promotional materials (including the teaser video a few months ago and the animated trailer recently), their walkthroughs, and their demos of course. There is a gloss of thoroughness and expertness which is exuded, and the production quality of those demos is of the highest standard. 

I should add that I do not own any Project SAM libraries, however if I were to purchase another library soon it would be LUMINA, part of the appeal is that it caters for some of the more delicate colours. I'm tired of percussion and bombastic sounds. I particularly like the various woodwinds and voice.


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## Caedwallon (Mar 20, 2013)

I just like the spacial, ethereal, almost heavenly sound that is advertised by LUMINA. I don't intend to buy it at day 1 but I really am excited for it. Another reason; judging from the video, LUMINA's combo-style projects an Albion-ish feel. A2 and A3 are among my favourites. 

I also agree with Rowland, Symphobia 1 and 2 prices must be reconsidered.


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## windshore (Mar 20, 2013)

such passionate debate about a product that isn't even released yet... I'm afraid to see where this all goes once it's out.


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## lee (Mar 20, 2013)

windshore @ Wed Mar 20 said:


> such passionate debate about a product that isn't even released yet... I'm afraid to see where this all goes once it's out.



As far as I know, this debate isn't more passionate than other pre-release threads. Quite normal on vi-c.


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## handz (Mar 20, 2013)

Good old Piet. I klike how he always says what he thinks. Even now I cant agree, as I like some of the demos very much so far. Except that cartoon one which is really week.


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## re-peat (Mar 20, 2013)

lee @ Wed Mar 20 said:


> windshore @ Wed Mar 20 said:
> 
> 
> > such passionate debate about a product that isn't even released yet... I'm afraid to see where this all goes once it's out.
> ...



I'm puzzled as well. I'm beginning to think I need to update my understanding of certain words in the English language quite urgently, cause there's things being said here today that don't make much sense to me at all. A company neglecting to publish a patch list for a samplelibrary quick enough, is considered "shocking" -- genocide, rape and child abuse are some examples of what I'd call "shocking", but being a little slow with releasing info, seems, at worst, a minor annoyance to me.
And now this: a friendly, easy-going exchange of opinion regarding the demo's of a soon-to-be-released product is called "a passionate debate" and even one which is cause for fear and alarm.

Assuming we're allowed to discuss these demo's in the first place, Windshore, what tone exactly do you want us to take when discussing them, so as not to come across as too passionate?

_


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## George Caplan (Mar 20, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



Ed @ Thu Mar 14 said:


> George Caplan @ Thu Mar 14 said:
> 
> 
> > i have albion 1 and symphobia 1. theyre really good. what i would like to know is based on the sounds from lumina so far is........who is this aimed at? is it for video gaming productions?
> ...



no i cant.


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## Ed (Mar 20, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



George Caplan @ Wed Mar 20 said:


> no i cant.



Oh okay. So you can tell me all the other products with all those fantasy FX and also where all the legato instruments are in Symphobia 1 and 2, right?


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## playz123 (Mar 20, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



re-peat @ Wed Mar 20 said:


> lee @ Wed Mar 20 said:
> 
> 
> > windshore @ Wed Mar 20 said:
> ...



I wouldn't attempt to speak for Windshore, but I do know that in the past we've also had some "passionate" debates about whether it's wise to speculate and assess a product in great depth before it's released.  However I haven't seen much here so far that would provide be a cause for concern, and actually most of the comments, both pro and con, have been quite interesting to read.

While I enjoy reading the opinions of others, in the end it still boils down what a product can do for 'me' and what 'I' can do with it. I suggest most people have a similar approach. With some libraries I was never able to achieve the results others did or see the benefits of owning it, while others had an opposite opinion. So we can discuss, speculate and offer opinions about a product before release, and IMHO, as long as it doesn't reflect negatively or provide erroneous information or conclusions, then the discussion probably isn't harmful. But in the end, it's really up to each of us to decide for ourselves (if a product has value) if we would benefit by buying it....even if one might feel that the interface of the product is extremely unattractive.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 25, 2013)

Another day, another demo (and video walkthrough) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=f96b5lWLBFQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 96b5lWLBFQ) . Alto flute and bassoon legato also in the library, so here's the legato instruments we know of:

Tin Whistle 
Alto Recorder 
Alto Flute
Oboe 
Clarinet 
Bassoon
Trumpet 
Soprano Voice


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 31, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

Yesterday on their FB page:



> LUMINA is DONE! We are now uploading the library to our servers around the world. Stay tuned after the weekend...



I'll let them off missing Q1 if its by less than a week  

Also another video walkthrough and a screenshot of the library categories have gone up.


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## Caedwallon (Mar 31, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



Guy Rowland @ 31st March said:


> Yesterday on their FB page:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome. ;/c]


----------



## Adrian Myers (Mar 31, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

Any bets on how long it will be before we need a recursive version of that emote? Beating the dead horse of using the beating the dead horse animation.

I just finished off a few purchases that probably put Lumina out of the picture for now, but it definitely has my attention. It will be nice when the trolling stops and the actual product details come out.

JRR shop added a page for Lumina this weekend, has any other retailer done so?
http://www.jrrshop.com/projectsamsymphobia3lumina

I'd be very surprised if it's really only $999 unless they slash S1/S2 a bit as well. If the content we've seen so far is as deep as it sounds, and as broad as they hint, then it would have to be truly massive in scope and a bit underpriced in comparison to other libs at that point.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 31, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



Adrian Myers @ Sun Mar 31 said:


> Any bets on how long it will be before we need a recursive version of that emote? Beating the dead horse of using the beating the dead horse animation.
> 
> I just finished off a few purchases that probably put Lumina out of the picture for now, but it definitely has my attention. It will be nice when the trolling stops and the actual product details come out.
> 
> ...



Ooh good spot, fair price... wonder what the Euro price will be. I've been predicting price drops for S1 and S2 as well, I think it's the right time.

And good call on the recursive emote...


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## Caedwallon (Mar 31, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*



Adrian Myers @ 31st March said:


> Any bets on how long it will be before we need a recursive version of that emote? Beating the dead horse of using the beating the dead horse animation.


Not very long, I reckon. Especially since I've been trolling with it for a while now.



Adrian Myers @ 31st March said:


> JRR shop added a page for Lumina this weekend, has any other retailer done so?
> http://www.jrrshop.com/projectsamsymphobia3lumina
> 
> I'd be very surprised if it's really only $999 unless they slash S1/S2 a bit as well. If the content we've seen so far is as deep as it sounds, and as broad as they hint, then it would have to be truly massive in scope and a bit underpriced in comparison to other libs at that point.


Imho, if LUMINA's got a $999 price tag, I'd give it a pass too.


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## Guy Rowland (Mar 31, 2013)

Europhiles - JRR shop have S1 and S2 currently at $949, while Project Sam's website has it at 749 euros plus vat, so perhaps Lumina will be 799 euros + vat if applicable. They also have a 50 euro loyalty discount on S2 cos I have S1 - that may or may not continue I guess.


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## gaz (Mar 31, 2013)

Seeming that Lumina is almost out of the blocks, it would be nice to get some actual details on patches and pricing. I saw one site with it priced at $999, which I think seems to be a high price from what I've seen of the limited videos. I hope some details with real meat comes out very soon. Don`t get me wrong, I've been eagerly awaiting this release and don't have a problem paying a premium fee but it would be nice to get some real information on it. Hopefully it will appear any minute.


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## dcoscina (Apr 1, 2013)

IT sounds very nice but probably not something I'm going to jump at whatever its price point. But I will reserve complete judgement until it's released and we have all the details.


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## Adrian Myers (Apr 2, 2013)

*Re: Project Sam LUMINA: New trailer and demos [more videos added]*

It's out! Just released moments ago!
http://www.projectsam.com/Products/Feature-Products/1427 (http://www.projectsam.com/Products/Feat ... ducts/1427)

€799 / $1034 with a €50 / $65 S1 loytalty discount, 849/1099 without I suppose.

I'd post more but the page just crashed. Woot launch day.


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## Guy Rowland (Apr 2, 2013)

While the PS site is down, loads of walkthroughs of the different categories at youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/CinematicSa ... dd&tag_id=

EDIT - also the recordings and articulations list is still live at http://www.projectsam.com/uploaddir/documents/Lumina_Recordings_and_Articulations_Overview.pdf (http://www.projectsam.com/uploaddir/doc ... erview.pdf)


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## Adrian Myers (Apr 2, 2013)

Very OT, but any idea what controller he's using in this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40DepRHIZm4

Looks like a Yamaha with the wheels above the keyboard ala the KX8 and S80, but it's completely planar with the screen set on the left. Very unusual! Also sexy.


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## Guy Rowland (Apr 2, 2013)

First impressions - pretty much as I expected, some absolutely fantastic ideas and patches here. A few concerns too though...

1. The stories are I think the core of the library. But I'm concerned by Into Darkness in the Stories I video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PJQ67uEmFk . It's terrific... until he changes chords, then there's a very artificial bump. That's a major buzzkill. The brilliance of something like CineOrch's Low Chords is that the transitions are seamless... and need to be if the patch is going to be seriously useable as intended. It's not always apparent in the sequencer playaback (I guess some sus pedal is being used) but I do still hear it a few times.

2. Dammit, all the legatos are 1 velocity. I guess they never cracked the phasing problem. Some instruments seem to have a few tricks up their sleeve (like the Tin Whistle) and there's some volume / filtering on CC1 but I'm concerned there won't be the range I need.

Was hoping to just press BUY immediately, but will now wait for TrySound. Need to get my fingers on the thing before deciding.


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## RasmusFors (Apr 2, 2013)

Dat price! After the video demos I'm not so sure anymore. Seems to be very much money for something with lots of problems. I really hope they improve it soon with updates, or else I won't buy it.


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## Adrian Myers (Apr 2, 2013)

I agree with Guy's once-over on the videos.

PS have obviously taken the playable ensemble concept to yet another plateau. If that's your bag, either for speed or inspirational reasons, this looks like it delivers in spades. Looks like they took a cue from CineSamples with articulation handling and custom mapping, and extended it to instrument mixing and even the legtato-staccato as well.

The transitions on the Stories I demo are rough, but the playability and layering (as seen in other demos) seem enough to overlook day-one wobbles like that. Also, I mean, that belltree and cymbal roll on the final chord! Nothing wrong with that.

The combined-performance instruments, while not my personal cup of tea, do sound awfully nice even over the youtubes. I was especially skeptical of the piano/harp/vibes patch, since good versions of any of those instruments are pricey enough, but even that sounds good, if limited. Unfortunately, given that everybody already has 8 20GB pianos, 4 harps including Spitfire's (I hope), and vibes with every percussion library, that patch in particular will only be a sketching tool, which seems likely to be true for a number of them.

The legatos do look a bit anemic in features, and this makes a lot of sense to me. If they were any deeper, Lumina would be $2K or more. While I was waiting for this, I decided to finish the Albions (with I, oddly enough), get some plucked single instruments, Cinebrass Bundle, and Olympus. That ran about $1400 thanks to some unexpected sales. And I kept thinking, you know, this is about 1/3 the scope of Lumina, if that. If it's deep, it should cost a fortune. And if it's not, it'll be a very nice ensemble/multi player with gorgeous but perhaps underweight single instruments.

Unsurprisingly, it's the latter, with predictable bumps since they obviously went bananas trying to hit what turned out to be an unrealistic deadline. It's probably safe to assume that patches (and more importantly, early adopter feedback!) are going to be taken very seriously. And also, just jumping around videos randomly to break any conscious listening pattern, the sound consistently strikes me as very much correct.


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## passenger57 (Apr 2, 2013)

I may buy this if I survive my taxes this week. Project Sam has never let me down


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## doctornine (Apr 2, 2013)

Going to depend on the size of the imminent PRS payout :wink:


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## dcoscina (Apr 2, 2013)

I own and love a lot of PS stuff but I will be passing on this. I want to point out its the content theme and not the price that's the deciding factor for me.


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## Guy Rowland (Apr 2, 2013)

Wow, that's a pretty negative reaction across the web - don't think I've read of one person saying they are buying it! For me that's because of execution far more than price though.

Here's an additional reservation, relating to the cartoon content. The main cartoon patch sounds amazingly similar to the cartoon multis in S1.... so for S1 owners, that alone isn't much of a draw. Phrases are a waste of time (and there's another reservation - there seems like too many of them in S3). Gestures on the other hand are very welcome. I've been asking for the Scott Bradley toolkit for years... does S3 have it buried in there? Can't tell yet. Where's the laughing violin? The little runs on head turns? It's virgin territory for a VI, and if S3 covered all that stuff, that alone would sell it to a lot of professionals. Right now I've heard a bunch of pointless phrases and what sounds like the multi from S1 (even down to the same sounding woods grace notes on high velocity).

I hope Project Sam can turn this around, cos this must have cost a fortune to produce and the recording quality and innovation sound very good. I'd like to hear more of the library, or better still get my hands on it at trysound. Price-wise they're kinda stuck... if they drop it by $300 in a few months they'll piss off the hardcore early adopters unless they offer freebies or credits or something. Which reminds me... was REALLY expecting price drops across the range at this point together with new bundle deals, I think they've missed a trick there (eg buy S2 and S3 together at additional discount). Hope they pull something out of the bag to kickstart this.

In the meantime... Alex or anyone else who has used the library... sell it to us!


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## antoniopandrade (Apr 3, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> Wow, that's a pretty negative reaction across the web - don't think I've read of one person saying they are buying it! For me that's because of execution far more than price though.



I beg to differ. Reading through PS's Facebook page it's apparent that 100% of the detractors are complaining about pricing. PS seems to think that it is 4 years ago where a library like Symphobia was absolutely essential to composers, making it an instant buy, no matter what the price. The tools that we deal with have improved and options now abound, especially the ones that covered the original Symphobia's ground. One comment in their Facebook mentioned Spitfire, and how they price their products, and before everyone comes down with their "horses for courses" and "apples and oranges" analogies, I will say that many people do buy Albion to cover exactly the same ground as Symphobia, even if they are libraries with different capabilities. The intention of the buyer is what counts in this case, I think. Lumina does some things I've never heard any other library do, and what it does, it seems to do very well, but I would say it's far from essential. This is also not say that it's not worth it's price, but it definitely feels like I could live without for now, or at least until the price drops (if ever).

Another thing I garnered from many comments here and at their FB is that people seem to be worried about Lumina pidgeon-holing them in the creative process, which is something I could see happning, but I think is an overreaction caused by the price of the library, because even though those "stories" feel almost like little pre-composed segments, it seems you have enough control to truly take the reigns and steer it in your direction. Well I guess time will tell on this one. Let's wait for the brave ones who purchased it to gives us more feedback.


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## woodsdenis (Apr 3, 2013)

antoniopandrade @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Wed Apr 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, that's a pretty negative reaction across the web - don't think I've read of one person saying they are buying it! For me that's because of execution far more than price though.
> ...



Great summation of my thoughts on this Antonio. Nothing could have the WOW that S1 had on its release, so it was always going to be a tough sell. From my initial impressions, this is not a $1000 library in today's market. For that price a library needs something indispensable. As good as this sounds, it's far from a must have.


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## Guy Rowland (Apr 3, 2013)

To clarify, Antonio - I totally agree that the negative reaction from most people is purely price. It's just not my own reason.

Whenever I asess a new library, be it $5 or $5,000, I ask myself two questions:

1. What can I achieve with this that I can't achieve right now? and

2. Will it affect my workflow?

Sable was a tough choice for me, it really was. With most new string libraries, they fail both the tests above - I have LASS which I adore (alongside S1, OSR etc), it is versatile and very quick to work with set up in my template. The new library won't make me work any quicker, and the sonic difference will probably be subtle at best. Sable sounds great, but also it had enough tricks up its sleeve and artics that made me go for it on the first criteria... just.

The Symphobia series is totally different of course. The sound is great, sure, but for me it's always been about workflow - specifically scoring to picture on a low budget. Albion has never gone down the road of multis and combos. Symphobia 1 multis and combos are little marvels, they're there in my template and enable certain sections and passages to go through really quickly. And since time = money, that's what justifies the price... easily. That's why I've always viewed them as very different from the Albion series. Although Albion is ensemble based, it doesn't offer me any workflow advantages given the libraries I already own, and I don't perceive it bringing me anything new to the table either.

Well, that's certainly true of S1. I never went for S2, and a lot of the reason why was the multis - they felt gimmicky, fun to play to friends, but no real practical use when scoring. Indeed, they were usually unplayable - 4 patches mapped across the keyboard played by 2 hands. S3 - on paper - addressed that, with well thought out genuinely playable multis. Of course you can't go anywhere near a whole score with it, but if it enables sections to fly by, there's my cost justification.

Only (again, for me) that's the problem. Again, the high water mark is Low Chords in CineOrch, which is the greatest miricle in all samples. Expressive, seamless, perfectly orchestrated and playable. I couldn't use Into Darkness, as played in the Lumina Stories I demo, those transitions are fake fake fake. And if I can't use the stories - the core of the library - then the reason to buy it in the first place just drops away. I already have a lovely celtic harp courtesy of Mr Tarilonte, and some nice choir oohs and ahhs from Soundiron. VSL woods still sound great to me for single instrument legato - and they have more than 1 velocity layer and don't phase. More is always nice, but on its own is no reason to buy.

All this is purely my own take of course, but I'm surprised that most of the reaction has purely been on the headline price. With anything in life, a price is justified by what it will do for you - cars cost more than Mars Bars. I'm not yet convinced S3 will do enough for me, which is especially frustrating given that I think their concept is terrific, and far stronger than S2. I think it needs another few months on the bench - 1.1 might yet sway me.


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## Waywyn (Apr 3, 2013)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> In the meantime... Alex or anyone else who has used the library... sell it to us!



The Logic:
What I don't understand is, the whole internez is complaining about the lack of orchestral phrasings, moods and patterns which would be very very hard (or not even possible) to be achieved with multisample libs. Now there is a developer who delivers exactly THAT ... and yet people complain again! :roll: 

As for the price:
Look, if you got a company and you need this for your projects and it gives you exactly THAT to get your jobs done, you buy it anyway! Disregarding if it is 599 or (I am exaggerating a bit here, but not really) 1999 EUR.
Every product you buy is an investment and this investment sooner or later should be back in, ... may it be a few weeks or even just a few days!!

Personally:
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the developers out there trying to get closer and closer to the real thing and deliver awesome concepts and results for all our needs out there, but I definitely love what ProjectSAM does. Simply because they deliver you the magic (you may be looking for)!


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## Adrian Myers (Apr 3, 2013)

I think Guy's point was that people here and in other specific conversations that he is following are avoiding it due to content rather than pricing. This is pretty much guaranteed to be true of any professional, and likely a lot of hobbyists by now as well. 

It falls perfectly into an uncanny valley that I was really hoping they wouldn't go for, but they did. I decided to move on other libraries instead of waiting for Lumina because I saw PS as being in an impossible position:

If they wanted to go deep, deep enough to solve the issues that people still raise with S2's limited dynamics and such, while adding a choir and some percussion and more individual instruments in the same package, the library would easily be $2K or more. Now if it were really good, even at that price, it'd be a must-have for any professional, but after both of them buy it (relatively speaking), the rest of the world would just pass it by. The "silent majority" purchaser crowd is enormous, so PS probably wouldn't go this route.

If they wanted to make it a general must-have, they had to lower the price substantially. But that would mean bringing S1/S2 down as well, either by the same amount or more. It'd be in Albion's territory at that point, and it'd be shallow, which I image they see as the end of days.

So it seemed like they'd do neither, and end up with a library nobody really needs at a price that many people will ignore. And that's exactly what happened. Now, hopefully for PS and for this gorgeous-sounding but somewhat confusing library, some people give in to "want" more than "need", because ultimately the content as offered sounds good and could be quite useful. But I think for many, it simply isn't useful enough in this landscape.

It's too big. This is really two projects, maybe orch/choir and winds/perc/ethnic. And they definitely should have knocked S1/S2 down and gone for bundles, honestly it's a little surreal that they didn't. They seem to have made the assumption that professionals already have both and won't worry about price, which is true, but then you might ask why those people need S3 at all.

Tough position!


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## Adrian Myers (Apr 3, 2013)

Random thought:

They mention live performance as a possible benefit a couple times.

Imagine Jean-Michel Jarre taking the stage, surrounded by synths and pedals, dramatically bowing his head... and then launching into the Looney Tunes theme.

Now I kind of have to see that. Oh and you're welcome, PS, for the ad.


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## Waywyn (Apr 3, 2013)

Adrian Myers @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> They seem to have made the assumption that professionals already have both and won't worry about price, which is true, but then you might ask why those people need S3 at all.
> 
> Tough position!



Please consider how many pro composers out there who work for games (RPGs, MMOs, Comedy etc.) wether it be PC, console, mobile or flash/web based? How many TV series in the fantasy/comedy/cartoon sector are out there? Not going into movies and other media productions. Wouldn't you agree that there is a definite concept of Maarten and his team for S3 (which I personally clearly see)?


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## Adrian Myers (Apr 3, 2013)

Waywyn @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> Please consider how many pro composers out there who work for games (RPGs, MMOs, Comedy etc.) wether it be PC, console, mobile or flash/web based?


I agree with your consideration of this perspective, and share it, as I work for a game company with two in-house composers. I haven't been able to stir much discussion of Lumina with them. And we are, right now, actively developing our next MMO that needs this kind of sound.

Of course your larger point is taken, but I never was ignoring that crowd or perspective, so I still see things as outlined above. 

So yes, I agree that this is aimed in the right direction, but it's not necessarily going to hit the mark just based on direction. I personally was looking forward to it. And whether people buy it or not, the balancing act still must be quite a challenge for PS.

Please don't see this as critical of PS, it's not. It's about the position they are in. For what it's worth, we're developers too, also working in an extremely technically demanding field with a list of competitors too long to even summarize here. I'm hardly a stranger to the balancing act, and it's not like PS isn't still a giant that runs half of the show. It's just a tough spot, that's all.


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## dcoscina (Apr 3, 2013)

I've been a staunch supporter of Project SAM since its inception. I own almost all of their libraries. I love Orchestral Essentials and thought it was a brilliant, economic way of getting Symphobia sounds to a greater user base. and the samples are very good. Very CPU efficient too!

Personally, I think I'm suffering sort of "ensemble burn out" and have found myself returning to libraries that allow me to compose music more conventionally (solo and sections not full ensembles). I've hit a bit of a bump in the road as far as flexibility so I've gone back to VSL and EWQL and CineSamples but augment using Symphobia or other Project SAM products (True Strike rocks!!). 

Would I scoop this up at $700? No. $500? No. so clearly it's not the price but what it brings to the table. And where my compositional needs and head space is at right now. 

I wish PS the best for this release though. They are great guys and a great company. I'm not planning on selling either S1 or S2 because they are great libs that have a lot of staying power. Perhaps I will warm to Lumina or work on a project where I can use those types of sounds.


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## Guy Rowland (Apr 3, 2013)

Waywyn @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> Please consider how many pro composers out there who work for games (RPGs, MMOs, Comedy etc.) wether it be PC, console, mobile or flash/web based? How many TV series in the fantasy/comedy/cartoon sector are out there? Not going into movies and other media productions. Wouldn't you agree that there is a definite concept of Maarten and his team for S3 (which I personally clearly see)?



I totally get the concept, I think the broad direction is 100% right. There was a definite skew in S1 and S2 towards the darker side, and so S3 is a skew in the opposite direction. I'm personally fine with mixing comedy, fantasy and epic too.

But Adrian's post is sobering. I'm not sure why there's such a lack of interest from the pros, I think there's enough on the table on paper to galvanise. As Adrian said, my own issue (as I think I've been quite clear about) is not price.

Also,, your point on phrases needs clarifying. For me, there's a fuzzy but very important line between using textures and gestures and all-out phrases. Once you get into the territory of distinguishable melody, phrases tend to become almost useless imo (possible exceptions for some of the ethnic stuff for a bit of garnish). Ignoring all ethical arguments, Vivace went waaaay too far... it's just silly, there's a beutifully orchestrated loop that's impossible to get in and out of without re-creating the same timbre from individual instruments, a task vastly more complex that orchestrating from scratch in the first place. Nothing in Lumina is that OTT, but some of the cartoon phrases have me scratching my head (with an appropriate sandpaper sound effect of course). Why on earth do little ordinary musical phrases that could easily be played on the playable patch?

Other gestures, on the other hand, are very useful - the little runs and glisses that are impossible for conventional libraries, also clusters, rips, risers and so on - these are golden and to be welcomed with both arms.

I think the concepts of the stories are absolutely fantastic. There's a lot of thought gone into the layering, and they provide much more expression than the multis in S1 and S2. My issue really is that it doesn't yet sound finessed - again, the transitions in Into Darkness sound horrible. If those were fixed and had the fluidity of CineOrch's Low Chords, and these were consistent across the library, I'd be buying right now cos I can see how useful they'd be. The other bits and pieces would fill everything out just fine.

The many, many posts on price (not just here, across the web including their own FB page) require an answer. The answer should be that this is a professional library for professionals, designed to speed up workflow and inspire. My perception right now is that that's where the problem is - it's the execution. I don't think PS can revist the price now (and such a shame that S1 and S2 aren't both now $499), so tbh the best bet is to get back to the workbench and get the patches really fluid for 1.1 - and before it goes up on TrySound (cos I believe you can't upgrade once there). Clearly folks aren't yet convinced, so perhaps some more real time demos in the meantime if you and PS think we've collectively not yet seen what the library is currently capable of.


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## passenger57 (Apr 3, 2013)

> Again, the high water mark is Low Chords in CineOrch, which is the greatest miricle in all samples. Expressive, seamless, perfectly orchestrated and playable.


+1 
I use that patch all the time!


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Apr 3, 2013)

I wish we could buy it in parts, as I have zero use for the phrases.


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## Lex (Apr 3, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> I wish we could buy it in parts, as I have zero use for the phrases.



Agreed. I also imagine that it would sell much better if it was split in to several 2-300$ libraries.

alex


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## germancomponist (Apr 3, 2013)

Ned Bouhalassa @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> .... as I have zero use for the phrases.



+1


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## NYC Composer (Apr 3, 2013)

passenger57 @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> > Again, the high water mark is Low Chords in CineOrch, which is the greatest miricle in all samples. Expressive, seamless, perfectly orchestrated and playable.
> 
> 
> +1
> I use that patch all the time!



+1, sorta. I don't use it all the time, but when I do, it's usually for thickening some foreboding bottom-y stuff, and man, at that point, it becomes one of the great bargains of my sample buying experience.


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## EwigWanderer (Apr 3, 2013)

Maybe CS should produce cineorch 2? 

Lumina does sound good, but for a hobbyist like me it's too expensive and it also would create grey hair when combining it to other libraries.


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## playz123 (Apr 3, 2013)

I'm still 'sitting on the fence about this'. I've been looking not only at the cost (which is significant), but the same sorts of things others have, such as do I need it and will it make my compositions any better? One can also buy a lot of other libraries for that amount of money or even help a lot of people, so it's a tough call, no matter whether one is a professional or a hobbyist. Not quite convinced yet that if I did proceed with a purchase today, that I'd be happy with my decision tomorrow. I wish them all the best with this though.


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## MA-Simon (Apr 3, 2013)

I wont mourn about the pricing, because I can see where it comes from with the 75GB contend.

_But._ Do we still need this huge-all-in-one-sample-library-monstrosities. 
I find myself buying more and more single Instruments and Packs.
So basically (mostly) only the stuff I need at the time.
This is meant for developers in general. V.I's are much more appealing to me if I can invest in smaller steps. 
...There are a lot of nice solo Instruments in there. Not much avaiable in the single Instrument legato-samples market. 

I don't see the need to build a barrier for smaller studios.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 3, 2013)

MA-Simon @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> I wont mourn about the pricing, because I can see where it comes from with the 75GB contend.
> 
> _But._ Do we still need this huge-all-in-one-sample-library-monstrosities.
> I find myself buying more and more single Instruments and Packs.
> ...



Speaking ONLY of my interests, +1. I like to buy smaller, focused instruments/packages for lower entry points.

Given an unlimited budget, of course, I'd just buy everything


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## 667 (Apr 3, 2013)

EwigWanderer @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> Maybe CS should produce cineorch 2?


Just as an FYI they did do some new recordings for Voxos update and Cineorch-like chords was part of that. I hope they release it standalone.


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## JPQ (Apr 4, 2013)

EwigWanderer @ Wed 03 Apr said:


> Maybe CS should produce cineorch 2?
> 
> Lumina does sound good, but for a hobbyist like me it's too expensive and it also would create grey hair when combining it to other libraries.



True. ps. even harder is know what to buy when is impossible know how prices rise and/or my income drop.


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## Adrian Myers (Apr 4, 2013)

So?

Did anybody get it? Maybe they're all too busy being in love with it to post here.

Please post, good sirs, if you are using Lumina!


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## Mike Connelly (Apr 4, 2013)

EwigWanderer @ Wed Apr 03 said:


> Maybe CS should produce cineorch 2?



I thought they said a long time ago they had already recorded it, just hadn't found the time to finish it up for release with all the other projects going on.


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## EwigWanderer (Apr 4, 2013)

Mike Connelly @ 4.4.2013 said:


> EwigWanderer @ Wed Apr 03 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe CS should produce cineorch 2?
> ...



That would be great!


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## passenger57 (Apr 11, 2013)

Project Sam posted 1.1 today

Fixed alot of issues that we're bugging me before such as the transitions. Now they are much smoother. Plus they have new story soundsets in the works. :D


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## Guy Rowland (Apr 11, 2013)

passenger57 @ Thu Apr 11 said:


> Project Sam posted 1.1 today
> 
> Fixed alot of issues that we're bugging me before such as the transitions. Now they are much smoother. Plus they have new story soundsets in the works. :D



Great news, thanks. Just what I was hoping for... make it all it can be rather than just drop the price. Looking forward to hearing some new demo material.


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