# How Much Open Room Do You Leave On Your Library SSDs?



## ryevick (Jun 1, 2020)

I'm just curious if there's a consensus amongst the forum for the optimal amount of room/percentage to leave available on your SSD/how much you are able to use without it bogging your work down? It's always tempting to fill it up but I know that's a bad idea.


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## sostenuto (Jun 1, 2020)

I follow Samsung Tech Support telephone advice re. provisioning and leave >10%. 
Win10 Pro File Explorer shows 'Red' Bar when less than 10% capacity left.


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## tmhuud (Jun 1, 2020)

4 minutes and 33 seconds. Just in case I need to add my favorite John Cage piece.


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## PaulieDC (Jun 2, 2020)

I've always tried to keep 10% open too. The red bar drives me crazy.


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## Mornats (Jun 2, 2020)

Yep, I get to those drives in the blue and outta the red.


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## Zero&One (Jun 2, 2020)

I only worry when the installer fails due to no space. 
Otherwise I see the red as “you can still buy more stuff”.


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## Virtuoso (Jun 2, 2020)

ryevick said:


> It's always tempting to fill it up but I know that's a bad idea.


It's only a bad idea if you are repeatedly writing to the drives, due to the way SSDs erase memory cells. It can affect write speed and drive longevity if the disk is close to capacity. (Read this if you want the techy background.)

HOWEVER, if you are using the drives as sample library drives, which are pretty much read-only, go ahead and fill them up. Your read speed won't suffer.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 2, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> HOWEVER, if you are using the drives as sample library drives, which are pretty much read-only, go ahead and fill them up. Your read speed won't suffer.



^ this. You fill up your SSD’s mine are usually maxed.


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## davidson (Jun 2, 2020)

1 bit if it's only used to store libraries.


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## MarcHedenberg (Jun 2, 2020)

See, this is where I've likely fucked up. I've got my OneDrive synced to my M.2 NVME drive. The M.2 drive itself not only stores all my libraries, but all my projects as well....(yes, this is all backed up on a separate external 10TB drive as well)

Should I reconsider this approach?


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## Greg (Jun 2, 2020)

I leave about 50 gb on 1tb drives. Not only for speed but for updates too


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## ryevick (Jun 2, 2020)

I really appreciate all of these responses, they give me a lot to think about. I understand the side saying fill up the library drive because it's read only but also understand that if you're libraries need to install updates (Spitfire) you're going to need room for that. I'm also kind of caught as MarcHedenberg is, where my projects are on my library drive so I need to think about moving them but I don't want to move them to my OS drive, I would guess that's going to mess you up especially when it's time to render. I'm doing a lot of work from my laptop where I have a 1TB M.2 OS drive and a 2TB 2nd internal SSD where my libraries and project files are stored. Hmm... decisions, decisions... it may be time for an external SSD project drive. Very interesting feedback thank you.


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## JohnG (Jun 2, 2020)

*Sample Drives*

If the sole purpose of the drive is to store and then play back samples, I think 10% seems like too much for larger drives. If you have a 2TB SSD, keeping 200GB free is more than I would leave free, for example.

If the drive's total capacity is only 128 GB, then maybe 10-15 free makes sense? Maybe 30GB on a larger drive?

I have not seen any "10% free" recommendations in writing from the disk manufacturers and in fact am pretty sure I read years ago from one manufacturer that you can fill SSDs almost to their total capacity.

Even the Samsung tech support phone call, alluded to above, sounds like a rule of thumb rather than scientific fact. However, always happy to be corrected.

*Boot or Recording Drives*

By contrast with sample storage, if the drive is your boot drive or another drive that is constantly reading and writing, more capacity makes sense. I keep those closer to 50% in case of a big download or something else that hogs a lot of space. 

Similarly, you don't want to finish the World's Greatest Burning Guitar Solo and find out your record drive ran out of space halfway through.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 2, 2020)

I have a 1TB SSD with 3GB free. It works fine.

The others have more space, but that's only because I haven't filled it.

And as John says, of course you need to leave room on your system drive. That's different.


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## sostenuto (Jun 2, 2020)

My scenario, was having trouble cloning heavily filled (red bar) Samsung C:\ to larger version.
Data Migration, Acronis, Macrium all failed multiple times. Samsung Tech Support suggested a bad 'block' on filled C:\ which would normally be cleared/repaired/moved to unused space. Since little space remained, it was not able to deal with the bad 'block'. I surely do not know this level of SSD detail, but choose to consider Samsung Support suggestion.

Fortunately, with (2) almost identical Win10 Pro PC DAW(s), was able to get back very close to previous functionality by cloning the other DAW :\ to larger SSD and reassigning the full one to lesser functions.

How valid this is for other users is clearly unknown, but lesson learned .... imho.


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## ryevick (Jun 2, 2020)

My M.2 needs to go on a diet for sure.

I'm not really certain what the largest update would be for a library. BBCSO seems to need a lot. I'm not sure how Spitfire does their updates. Do they download first, then uncompress, then merge, then delete??? I have no idea. BBCSO was just completely restructured. I could do an entirely separate thread on my frustrations with Spitfire's installation app when using 2 computers and it not being able to tell which computer you're using... but I digress.

I have several empty 2 & 4TB external HDDs available. I suppose using one for my project files would be best for now? Not sure.


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## JohnG (Jun 2, 2020)

HDDs still work!

Maybe not for the latest giant orchestral libraries or if you’re recording 30 stereo tracks simultaneously at a low buffer, but plenty of older libraries work fine on them.

I use them for large, full-system backups as well


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jun 2, 2020)

I still have many libraries on a LaCie HDD, no issues.


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## ryevick (Jun 2, 2020)

JohnG said:


> HDDs still work!
> 
> Maybe not for the latest giant orchestral libraries or if you’re recording 30 stereo tracks simultaneously at a low buffer, but plenty of older libraries work fine on them.
> 
> I use them for large, full-system backups as well



They work but given the 3 areas you deal with... your OS, storage of sound libraries, and storage of project files... I'm assuming in your going to put your libraries or your projects on a slower drive system that you would want that to be your project files. I know there's writing involved with your project files but that's not really a speed issue, you'd want the loading of libraries on the SSD right? It was a late night and my heads pretty foggy


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## JohnG (Jun 2, 2020)

ryevick said:


> They work but given the 3 areas you deal with... your OS, storage of sound libraries, and storage of project files... I'm assuming in your going to put your libraries or your projects on a slower drive system that you would want that to be your project files. I know there's writing involved with your project files but that's not really a speed issue, you'd want the loading of libraries on the SSD right? It was a late night and my heads pretty foggy



My priorities (highest to lowest) for fastest storage:

1. Sample libraries;
2. Record drive -- place where audio gets recorded;
3. Project files (really can be HDDs)
4. Boot drive (C: drive on PC or Macintosh HD on Mac OS)
5. Synths (Omnisphere, for example) -- really can't discern any improvement with SSDs, but possibly there is one.


*OS Drive with SSD? Opinions Vary*

Some people write that their computer seems "snappier" with an SSD on the OS drive and, for full disclosure, I do have SSDs on nearly every computer now. That said, for me the improvement is either negligible or even imaginary, except for startup from being turned off, which is indeed noticeably faster. 

I suspect one's experience of the SSD-OS drive depends on one's style of working. For me, the improvement is small, which may be because of what I write and how. I generally compose larger-scale orchestral or orchestral hybrid pieces for media and work with a template that I load at the beginning of the day and don't mess with too much. Accordingly, once I spend the time to customise the template for a new picture or show or game, I am not starting each track from scratch and, therefore, don't typically load lots of new software all day from the OS drive.

So, if you work the way I do, HDD is ok for boot.

Others, who seem to be more songwriters (guitar bass vocals drums in other words) seem to be the ones who laud the benefits of an SSD for the boot drive.


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## easyrider (Jun 2, 2020)

JohnG said:


> My priorities (highest to lowest) for fastest storage:
> 
> 1. Sample libraries;
> 2. Record drive -- place where audio gets recorded;
> ...



With the low cost of small capacity SSD’S there is literally no reason now for having your OS on a spinning disk...not only are spinning disks noisy and more prone to failure...They generate more heat, use more power and are slow....


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## MA-Simon (Jun 2, 2020)

My Sample libraries / OS are on SSD's (4 of them).
My Data (Pictures, Documents, Projects) and such are on HDD's.


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## easyrider (Jun 2, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> My Sample libraries / OS are on SSD's (4 of them).
> My Data (Pictures, Documents, Projects) and such are on HDD's.



OS?


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## MA-Simon (Jun 2, 2020)

easyrider said:


> OS?


Windows

Edit: OS means Operating System.

Sometimes I do large Z-Brush 3D projects via an external HDD though. I know, sounds crazy, but it somehow works. For me SSD's are just for quicker loading times on sample libraries.


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## easyrider (Jun 2, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> Windows



No I mean is your OS on a SSD?


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## MA-Simon (Jun 2, 2020)

easyrider said:


> No I mean is your OS on a SSD?


Ah! Yes, it is! Would be silly not to include the most important stuff.


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## MartinH. (Jun 2, 2020)




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## Zero&One (Jun 2, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Some people write that their computer seems "snappier" with an SSD on the OS drive and, for full disclosure, I do have SSDs on nearly every computer now. That said, for me the improvement is either negligible or even imaginary, except for startup from being turned off, which is indeed noticeably faster.



Hi @JohnG 

You might find this interesting... using Catalina

I've just cloned to my 8 year old HDD today. So thought I'd test the backup, and also give this a test.

Boot time was pointless, due to every app requiring some sort of authorisation check under Catalina. Also, it's doing some indexing and cranking the drive like mad. But as you say, we all know boot times are faster anyway.

So the biggie.
Logic project - first load was 38secs
Closed project. Loaded again was 14secs

Booted back to SSD
Logic project - first load was 24secs
Closed project. Loaded again was 15secs

So yes, the difference once up isn't anything. Especially considering this old dog was still indexing and god knows what else.

Also, I checked the performance counters and no real difference either during playback


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## MA-Simon (Jun 2, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> Logic project - first load was 24secs


Just, how. Do you have a big Kontakt template?
I am all SSD's and it will still take about 10 minutes on first load.


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## Denkii (Jun 2, 2020)

Virtuoso said:


> It's only a bad idea if you are repeatedly writing to the drives, due to the way SSDs erase memory cells. It can affect write speed and drive longevity if the disk is close to capacity. (Read this if you want the techy background.)
> 
> HOWEVER, if you are using the drives as sample library drives, which are pretty much read-only, go ahead and fill them up. Your read speed won't suffer.


This.
I have TB drives with 400 mb left.
Only problem is updating libraries in that scenario so I wouldn't advise to put spitfire stuff on drives that you fill out.
Kontakt stuff that rarely gets updated though? Go ahead.


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## easyrider (Jun 2, 2020)

Denkii said:


> This.
> I have TB drives with 400 mb left.



Your SSD drives are now working slower....


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## Zero&One (Jun 2, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> Just, how. Do you have a big Kontakt template?
> I am all SSD's and it will still take about 10 minutes on first load.



This is just something I was playing with today.
Not a huge template. It has several tracks consisting of Dimension Strings, Avenger, Arturia, Kontakt and the BBCSO String Template Strings (can't remember how many). So nothing huge

I could open the full BBCSO library template as a test. Not tonight though as I'm knackered and it's my birthday


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## MartinH. (Jun 2, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Your SSD drives are now working slower....



Why?


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## PaulieDC (Jun 2, 2020)

MarcHedenberg said:


> The M.2 drive itself not only stores all my libraries, but all my projects as well....(yes, this is all backed up on a separate external 10TB drive as well)
> 
> Should I reconsider this approach?


OneDrive is the concern, because for syncing Microsoft is using hidden temp files that you can't see but take up space, and Microsoft isn't exactly Merry Maids when the sync is done, invisible files get left behind a lot. That's where you want to be careful about maxing the drive. If it's libraries-only than you can push it. 

For my tower PC I built, I use two of https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01798WOJ0 (these PCIe-4x adapter cards). Each card holds an NMVe M.2 and a SATA M.2. Over time I acquired drives, and split up my libraries. You might ask why I would want _SATA _M.2 drives at _all_, which are slower. I do put Spitfire Libraries on one NVMe M.2 and Berlin on the others. Then I put a cheaper 500GB SATA M.2 on the PCI card dedicated to my Cubase Project folders, and get this, on the other SATA M.2 I put my EastWest Hollywood stuff. Why on a SATA? I did an extensive experiment last year for load times, and there was almost NO difference loading EW libraries from my NVMe drive compared to using a SATA drive! I should have posted this test somewhere I guess. For example, Hollywood Strings took only 1 second less on the NVMe than the SATA. My best guess for the reason is Play, the way that the EastWest programmers coded it to read in data. So any SATA SSD is enough for EW libs. Now, maybe an EW update in the past year has changed Play to read faster at but I think we would see that talked about more often.


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## easyrider (Jun 2, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Why?



SSD’S need the extra capacity to run TRIM.It also lowers the amount of drive operations per second the SSD is capable of doing.

A lot of programs that come with SSD from Samsung and crucial monitor the space available and warn you of potential speed issues.


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## MartinH. (Jun 2, 2020)

easyrider said:


> SSD’S need the extra capacity to run TRIM.It also lowers the amount of drive operations per second the SSD is capable of doing.
> 
> A lot of programs that come with SSD from Samsung and crucial monitor the space available and warn you of potential speed issues.



Thanks! You gave me a term to google for:








TRIM and SSD Performance: Why is it Important?


In a nutshell, Trim is a feature that helps increase the efficiency of your SSD by preparing data blocks for reuse.




www.crucial.com





Sounds to me like it's affecting write speeds only. So on a pure sample drive that wouldn't matter, right?


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## easyrider (Jun 2, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Thanks! You gave me a term to google for:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Depends...Page file location...and other factors...I myself use multiple SSD’S and pool them all together into one disk....I then let Drivepool manage the optimisation and storage so I don’t have to think about it and I only have one drive letter which makes managing libraries so much easier.

I can add an SSD into the pool to increase the pool space in seconds...I can remove drives and add bigger ones etc...

I look at some configs on here and see multiple SSD’S in systems and wonder to myself...what a PITA that must be be to manage !


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## MartinH. (Jun 2, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Depends...Page file location...and other factors...I myself use multiple SSD’S and pool them all together into one disk....I then let Drivepool manage the optimisation and storage so I don’t have to think about it and I only have one drive letter which makes managing libraries so much easier.
> 
> I can add an SSD into the pool to increase the pool space in seconds...I can remove drives and add bigger ones etc...
> 
> I look at some configs on here and see multiple SSD’S in systems and wonder to myself...what a PITA that must be be to manage !



I'm still managing my HDDs the PITA way. And since I constantly hit the size limits that means a lot of manually moving stuff around. That drive pool thing sounds very handy, but I'd be too worried that it multiplies the likelyhood of catastrophic failure by the number of drives in the pool. The way I understand your system, if one of your drives fails, you need to pull a full backup of the entire pool from elsewhere, right?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jun 2, 2020)

easyrider said:


> With the low cost of small capacity SSD’S there is literally no reason now for having your OS on a spinning disk...not only are spinning disks noisy and more prone to failure...They generate more heat, use more power and are slow....



And as I've posted many times, replacing the system drive with an SSD makes a far more noticeable difference to the speed everything happens than a new computer does.

SSDs really are wonderful.


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## easyrider (Jun 2, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> I'm still managing my HDDs the PITA way. And since I constantly hit the size limits that means a lot of manually moving stuff around. That drive pool thing sounds very handy, but I'd be too worried that it multiplies the likelyhood of catastrophic failure by the number of drives in the pool. The way I understand your system, if one of your drives fails, you need to pull a full backup of the entire pool from elsewhere, right?



Yes and No depending on your setup.

You can choose to have file duplication enabled that allows for one or more drive failures...The thing to remember is that https://stablebit.com/ is not Raid or even software raid....You can pull a disk from the pool and still read it in another computer etc....

You can also add mechanical hardrives to the pool and USB drives to the pool. You can then choose where the new files are placed. Easily select which disks will be used to store files in any folder.Speed up your pool by placing performance sensitive files on SSDs etc...perfect for sample libraries. 

So say you have 4 x 2TB SSD's in the pool this would appear as one 8 TB SSD. You could then connect a USB drive to the pool and choose the duplication destination on the USB so your SSD pool will still work even if you have an SSD failure ( very Rare in my experience)

Add the new SSD and the data would copy back to it and keep your pool running quickly.

Its incredibly powerful. I myself have my X: Drivepool backed up to my server you wouldn't need to need to pull a full backup of the entire pool from elsewhere you would just check what folders were missing on the pool and copy them back.

Or just delete the data on the pool and copy the data back....

I have been using Drivepool in both of my 20TB servers and my main DAW rig for years and years and really don't even think about it. Add an SSD to the pool in seconds....remove disks etc...

One cool thing to do to keep things tidy is once you have created the pool. Delete the drive letters from the SSD's within the pool so you don't see them cluttering up your OS.

Drive pool doesn't need drive letters to operate the pool. INCREDIBLY COOL!


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## MartinH. (Jun 2, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Yes and No depending on your setup.
> 
> You can choose to have file duplication enabled that allows for one or more drive failures...The thing to remember is that https://stablebit.com/ is not Raid or even software raid....You can pull a disk from the pool and still read it in another computer etc....
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation! That sounds pretty cool indeed. Man, one day I really gotta rethink and restructure my data storage, but there's never a "good" time for things like that. Just merging drives into one big drivepool and only organizing things on a folder-level does seem easier indeed. I'll think about it!


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## easyrider (Jun 2, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation! That sounds pretty cool indeed. Man, one day I really gotta rethink and restructure my data storage, but there's never a "good" time for things like that. Just merging drives into one big drivepool and only organizing things on a folder-level does seem easier indeed. I'll think about it!



Quickest way:

Buy a new Single SSD and create a pool with it. Move data from one SSD you have to the new one in the pool freeing up space on that disk...format the old disk and add it to the pool. The pool will then expand. Repeat this process with all your SSD’S until all your data is in one big pool...

You don’t have to do anything else as drivepool will balance the data across all disks automatically.

You can even create pools with cloud storage using stablebit cloudrive for offside backups... https://stablebit.com/CloudDrive

I signed up for Microsoft 365 Family. And have 6TB cloud storage that appears like a real drive in windows but powered by the cloud...


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## Michel Simons (Jun 2, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> Not tonight though as I'm knackered and it's my birthday



Happy (belated?) Birthday.


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## Zero&One (Jun 2, 2020)

easyrider said:


> A lot of programs that come with SSD from Samsung and crucial monitor the space available and warn you of potential speed issues.



Potential is the keyword. These are warnings are from the guys whom benefit from people buying storage after all  
However, I agree it's probably not best practice to max out anything these days with costs etc

Saying that, I just done it 
My very old SSD (now an emergency boot drive) kindly offered it's services for this thread.

Test using 1GB stress load:
SSD v.1 - has 112GB free over 10mins

SSD v.2 - has 1.7GB free over 10mins (had to leave enough for the load)

Both read/write are averaging the same. The test captures the last point, so the differences here change per load cycle ever so slightly.

So I'd conclude there's no difference, at least on this crappy drive. Newer drives will certainly have way better firmware.


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## Denkii (Jun 3, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Your SSD drives are now working slower....


Crystaldisk tells a different story. I'm not writing. I'm only reading. It doesn't matter.


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## ryevick (Jun 3, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> This is just something I was playing with today.
> Not a huge template. It has several tracks consisting of Dimension Strings, Avenger, Arturia, Kontakt and the BBCSO String Template Strings (can't remember how many). So nothing huge
> 
> I could open the full BBCSO library template as a test. Not tonight though as I'm knackered and it's my birthday



Happy belated, hope it was a good one!


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## ryevick (Jun 3, 2020)

PaulieDC said:


> OneDrive is the concern, because for syncing Microsoft is using hidden temp files that you can't see but take up space, and Microsoft isn't exactly Merry Maids when the sync is done, invisible files get left behind a lot. That's where you want to be careful about maxing the drive. If it's libraries-only than you can push it.
> 
> For my tower PC I built, I use two of https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01798WOJ0 (these PCIe-4x adapter cards). Each card holds an NMVe M.2 and a SATA M.2. Over time I acquired drives, and split up my libraries. You might ask why I would want _SATA _M.2 drives at _all_, which are slower. I do put Spitfire Libraries on one NVMe M.2 and Berlin on the others. Then I put a cheaper 500GB SATA M.2 on the PCI card dedicated to my Cubase Project folders, and get this, on the other SATA M.2 I put my EastWest Hollywood stuff. Why on a SATA? I did an extensive experiment last year for load times, and there was almost NO difference loading EW libraries from my NVMe drive compared to using a SATA drive! I should have posted this test somewhere I guess. For example, Hollywood Strings took only 1 second less on the NVMe than the SATA. My best guess for the reason is Play, the way that the EastWest programmers coded it to read in data. So any SATA SSD is enough for EW libs. Now, maybe an EW update in the past year has changed Play to read faster at but I think we would see that talked about more often.



I don't use any type of automated backup. I have OneDrive & pCloud accounts as well as OS backups but I do them all manually. I also do multiple active project saves to a temporary location, then delete the temp files at the end of a project when the files are manually backed up to cloud.


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