# Praxis, some "new" work.



## Sid_Barnhoorn (Aug 8, 2006)

Hi folks,

I'm back with something "new". I accually scored this film a while ago but since recently it's been put online. It's a stylised, sci-fi, action short called Praxis:

Direct link:
http://www.foodforthemoon.com/praxis/praxis-web1.mp4

It's become a very ambient film so I hope you enjoy it.

Cheers,


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Aug 9, 2006)

For some reason the link to the site didn't work for some folks so I put up the direct link to the movie. Hopefully this works. 

Cheers,


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## Niah (Aug 9, 2006)

Hmm, can't say I really enjoyed the movie eheeh, but anyway it had some good moments. Generally I like what you have done, you created some good moods and ambiences in the film. My only criticism is towards the more dnyamics/battle scenes, where you left out some SD loops too exposed and for too long. Maybe you could add some more perc parts or more instruments and make it more interesting, perhaps you did and it didn't show due to the audio, or perhaps you didn't wanna make it too busy to make the audio of the film percetive. Either way, you did well so keep posting !


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## kid-surf (Aug 9, 2006)

This is a good example of the film being so bad that the composer's music has no chance to 'matter'. Sorry I don't have something nicer to say. (I'm sure your music is suited for something better)

To the director: Focus on "telling a story", there was no story there. Without a good storyline, one that also makes sense, you've got no reason to shoot a film to begin with. No one can save a bad story. Fight scenes and guns do not a good film make. You are ahead of yourself. Good script is rule #1...

I wish I could find something positive to say, but I can't if I'm being honest with you. Oh well, one less bad film standing in his way. Keep going.

*I'll play the bad guy and tell you what people will surely be thinking but may not say...


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 9, 2006)

The film seemed to be in some sort of matrix style but the story line was not clear. Presuming they are going for that effect, I like that the music is minimilistic in the beginning. The first shootem scene though felt strange , and the brass was not quite right. Same with when the fellow goes out the window. I felt there needed to be more of a change there. Basically general approach seems right for the genre, but there are too many holes with the story for the flow.


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Aug 9, 2006)

Ey guys,

Thanks for your honest opinions. It was a difficult film to score and you can see why but nevertheless I did my best and although it wasn't the best work I've worked on I think it was a good experience in that field. Eventually it's a wierd film with the lack of good storytelling and such but I thought it interesting to share and get some good comments/critique out of it. At this point it worked, thx for the comments/critique.

Cheers,


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## Niah (Aug 10, 2006)

Sid_Barnhoorn @ Thu Aug 10 said:


> Ey guys,
> 
> Thanks for your honest opinions. It was a difficult film to score and you can see why but nevertheless I did my best and although it wasn't the best work I've worked on I think it was a good experience in that field. Eventually it's a wierd film with the lack of good storytelling and such but I thought it interesting to share and get some good comments/critique out of it. At this point it worked, thx for the comments/critique.
> 
> Cheers,



No doubt, score as many films as you can that's what I say.


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Aug 10, 2006)

> No doubt, score as many films as you can that's what I say.



Good one!  That one's also in my book, so no regrets. 

Cheers,


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## José Herring (Aug 10, 2006)

Kid's too harsh. The movie wasn't that bad and the story line pretty typical for the genre. It's low budgety for sure and that's what makes it cheezy. But really it's no worse than your typical Power Ranger shyte and we all know how popular that is with the little ones.

Score sounded good for ambience but the actually writing of orchestral parts was lacking as well as the library quality. In the future if you have projects that lack quality you have to ignore the picture a lot and kind of write above an beyond what you're seeing. Worked for Star Wars and I always keep that in mind when doing a film that isn't all that good.

best,

José


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## kid-surf (Aug 10, 2006)

Jose, you apparently have a different threshold than I. Which is fine.

Yet, If you do a 'film' you can't fall back on "well, it's not any worse than ____ TV show". Imagine pitching it that way, no one would take you seriously. People out there in the industry will be expecting much more. And they aren't forgiving of anything. Especially not a "typical" storyline. That's all.

What industry people say about these films is often a lot hasher than I was. Trust me.

Having people around you who'll blow smoke up your butt is a great way to remain stagnant and naive. Blunt honesty can serve to foster 'real' growth.


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## José Herring (Aug 10, 2006)

kid-surf @ Thu Aug 10 said:


> Jose, you apparently have a different threshold than I. Which is fine.



No not really. Just willing to recognize that not everybody has 200 mil to do a movie. 



kid-surf @ Thu Aug 10 said:


> Yet, If you do a 'film' you can't fall back on "well, it's not any worse than ____ TV show". Imagine pitching it that way, no one would take you seriously. People out there in the industry will be expecting much more. And they aren't forgiving of anything. Especially not a "typical" storyline. That's all.



I don't think he'll be pitching this at CAA anytime soon. He'll probably go on to do TV from here. Get his chops up. Then move on to do movies. You're making too big a deal of it.




kid-surf @ Thu Aug 10 said:


> What industry people say about these films is often a lot hasher than I was. Trust me.


Industry people typically are no more talented than this guy. They just have more money.



kid-surf @ Thu Aug 10 said:


> Having people around you who'll blow smoke up your butt is a great way to remain stagnant and naive. Blunt honesty can serve to foster 'real' growth.



Well if you value blunt honesty. The music you posted recently is alright composition wise. But, get real players to do your music including synth guys for your programming and sequencing. You have a lot to learn in terms of phrasing and performance much of which would take you a long time to understand. You don't have an innate talent for performance. You're kind of like Stravinsky in that regards. If I where you I'd stop buying gear and start hiring people to play your music. You'll find much more appreciation for your efforts.


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Aug 10, 2006)

Hi José,

Yeah, the orchestral parts weren't the best works I've done and most of you know that but indeed I was more distracted by the visuals to really write anything that would suit better at the time so I just did this which the director liked, naturaly.
But I probably should have said this is a non-budget studentfilm.  But perhaps that's appearant.  So yeah, they're just starting out so they still have a long way to go in terms of filmmaking but that's gonna take time, as with everything...

Thanks again.

Cheers,


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## kid-surf (Aug 10, 2006)

*"No not really. Just willing to recognize that not everybody has 200 mil to do a movie." *

You don't need 200 mil to write a good script. Just patience... if it's not where it needs to be. And it wasn't. 

If this is purely for entertainment purposes, I wasn't entertained. I would say that's the mark anyone should aim for. If you were entertained then you were entertained. I wasn't so I said so. (and why)


Your ramblings about my music is transparent and meaningless. Sorry if I'm not offended...


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## José Herring (Aug 10, 2006)

kid-surf @ Thu Aug 10 said:


> *"No not really. Just willing to recognize that not everybody has 200 mil to do a movie." *
> 
> Your ramblings about my music is transparent and meaningless. Sorry if I'm not offended...



The fact that you find it transparent and meaningless only proves what I said. What I state is in fact utterly important. Not intended to offend. Just being "blunt".

Without taking into account phrasing, expression and performance your music will never have real emotional impact, because those are the chief carriers of aesthetic message in music. Most people call it musicallity. So if you find that "transparent and meaningless" ...alright.


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## kid-surf (Aug 10, 2006)

Thanks for the tip. 

Here's the thing: I feel exactly the same way about your music. So I guess we're at an impasse. It's clear to me that I don't want your sensibilities (have at it, no hard feelings), and don't believe in you as a composer. I've heard your "reel". Not very good. 

You are the most active person on this site. Seemingly the person with the least work despite your "apparent" deep knowledge of composition and emotional translation. May wanna ask yourself why that is. Should tell you something.

No, I don't trust your sensibilities. Thanks anyway...

Just being "blunt"... you can handle it. right?

Now what? Is that enough OT? Seems like it.... and now we each know how the other feels about our music. No prob....


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## Patrick de Caumette (Aug 10, 2006)

kid-surf @ Thu Aug 10 said:


> Thanks for the tip.
> 
> Here's the thing: I feel exactly the same way about your music. So I guess we're at an impasse. It's clear to me that I don't want your sensibilities (have at it, no hard feelings), and don't believe in you as a composer. I've heard your "reel". Not very good.
> 
> ...



:roll:


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## kid-surf (Aug 10, 2006)

Patrick de Caumette @ Thu Aug 10 said:


> kid-surf @ Thu Aug 10 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the tip.
> ...


 :roll:


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## José Herring (Aug 10, 2006)

edit:

Got it kid. I understand your frustration.

Peace.

José


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Aug 10, 2006)

Right, anyway... I respect your judgement and music though, Jose.  You've got great work on that showreel of yours btw! Are some of these passages live?

Cheers,


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## José Herring (Aug 10, 2006)

Sid_Barnhoorn @ Thu Aug 10 said:


> Right, anyway... I respect your judgement and music though, Jose.  You've got great work on that showreel of yours btw! Are some of these passages live?
> 
> Cheers,



Thank you. Some things are live. Sorry for hijacking your thread. I feel pretty ashamed of that.

José


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## kid-surf (Aug 10, 2006)

Jose -- Well, I saw what you wrote before...

Nope, not frustrated. No reason to be. Hope you aren't......

Look: I assumed it was a serious attempt at a good film. if it wasn't then that could have been stated from the get go. I wouldn't have watched or given my opinion in that case. I am used to professional situations or folks attempting to break in and so forth, in a very real way. So it's hard for me to look at something as "for shitts a giggles". 

Yet, there is a message from the moderators of this site clearly stating: *"please be prepared for honest critiques of your music/productions"* and... *"rather than just point out problems attempt to offer solutions."*

That's what I did.......

You bringing my music into this, regardless of what you feel about it, was cheap and immature. Point blank. But now we know how each of us truly feel about the others music. No big deal, dude. If you hold a grudge that's on you..... meaningless to me though. Water under the bridge.


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## KevinKauai (Aug 10, 2006)

I think several folks in this thread need to take a couple steps back (you know who you are!) and get a grip on "constructive criticism" which, in its purest form does not also need to server as a vehicle to show off how incisive nor brilliant the person commenting is.

That said, I must also disclose that I recuse myself from commenting much about this project as I saw and heard much of it along the way and am aware of some of the constraints of time and budget that faced various participants. As a student film, I think you need to make allowances about naivete and budget and look for those seeds that suggest the future potential of the participants. (How many of you have seen the student film of George Lucas which later became “THX 1138”on that wonderful series of "Short Cinema Journal" DVDs? Yeah, it wasn’t perfect, but there were some key ideas and approaches which were quite ground-breaking in their own way as far as overlapping dialog and visual suggestions which later came fully to bear in "Star Wars”.)

Yes, there is much that is “wrong” in the cinematic portions of the film - - dialog and delivery, principally. As Sid and I chat and exchange "works-in-progress" online a couple times per week, I will (and have) communicated my comments and observations on the music directly.

Let’s remember that the V.I. forum is a place of civility and positive feedback.

 KevinKauai


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## Niah (Aug 10, 2006)

THX-1138 is Lucas' best, period :mrgreen:


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 10, 2006)

josejherring @ 10/8/2006 said:


> You're kind of like Stravinsky in that regards.



Hmmm. That whole exchange was pretty ugly, and I do have to say that Jose started the ball rolling, given that Kid really wasn't knocking Sid one bit. But that Stravinsky comparison does strike me as a kind of under-handed compliment, no? Anyone who feels like putting me down by comparing me to Debussy, or Bach, or Stockhausen for that matter, please go right ahead! :lol: 

Now where's that Homer Simpson eating popcorn pic when you need it?

PS: Sid, that movie sucks BIG time IMHO, but you did a pretty good job in the context, though I did find the soundtrack quite flat in terms of emotion. But that's probably what worked best with what you were given story/image-wise. Keep moving forwards! :wink:

PPS: Hey Kid, don't judge how much work a composer has by the number of posts. I come here 10-20 times a day, _especially_ when I'm in the middle of work (write for 30 minutes - internet for 5-10 minutes: repeat).


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## Patrick de Caumette (Aug 10, 2006)

One funny thing about this whole mess is that I' d have a real hard time keeping up with the tremendous amount of crap movies coming out of Hollywood, with ridiculous scripts, shaky acting and offensively high budgets. 
It seems they come out at the rate of one per day minimum.
I am a film lover but I can't help but question the morality of millions of dollars being spent on worthless shit while third world countries could eradicate massive epidemics with a share of such budgets (yea, I know, this is a hi-jack. Sorry Sid)

So what point is really made when lamenting about a weak plot? And please don't give me a lecture about how in Hollywood they do things differently!

We as composers for film have to deal with the fact that most of the scores we write will end up behing mediocre films. Consider yourself extremely lucky if you can claim that your score is behind a masterpiece of a movie just once in your lifetime.
Scoot Smalley had a good point when he told me that a mediocre movie is a great challenge and test for us composers and that we owe it to ourselves to come up with our most brillant work under such circonstances...


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## kid-surf (Aug 10, 2006)

Ned ---

Yeah, I took that Stravinsky thing as a compliment whether it was meant that way or not. Too late now. No take backs. 

*"PPS: Hey Kid, don't judge how much work a composer has by the number of posts. I come here 10-20 times a day, especially when I'm in the middle of work (write for 30 minutes - internet for 5-10 minutes: repeat)."*

True... ok I respectfully retract that comment. I've been doing that a little too much lately too. :D Sometimes I start going crazy in this friggn room with no people in it. :D So noted....


Yet, Jose should know that I ain't holding a grudge. That's not my style. Like I said, water under the bridge. (If he want's to be my new boyfriend we'll arrange that..... )

choc0 -- we're through! :twisted: Sorry..... :cry:


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## José Herring (Aug 10, 2006)

I think the whole point of the exchange was missed. Personally I made a point not to criticize his music but just in a blunt way tell kid that he was like Stravinsky who also didn't know much about performance as is evident if you've ever heard a recording of Stravinsky conducting Stravinsky. Sometimes we as composers aren't the best judge of how our music should be performed. I'm no exception. Performance and composition are really two different fields of study. 

That you took it so hard Kid was actually a bit of a shock. That you tried to come back with quite personal insults not knowing me or the 6 projects that I've done in the last year, one of which is being consider for a Grammy nomination.

I'm like where is this Dude coming from? You don't like my music, fine, but a lot of others do. I actually like your music quite a bit. I find a lot of flaws in your orchestration and also in your ability to execute your ideas. Most of that stemming from lack of education. I think you do to. But I never criticized your music. Just your ability to execute it. Though you criticized mine quite a bit, and me personally.

Will I hold a grudge. No.

José :roll:


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## kid-surf (Aug 10, 2006)

Patrick --

well it's nice to see a post from you were you aren't throwing rocks at me. :lol:

I don't disagree with you much. But here's the punch line. That's what my wife does for a living (sells scripts, and puts writers on these assignment studio jobs). So I know what an uphill battle it is to get something good "made". Her job is often trying to get a studio to "make" a good film. But they have their own agenda, ya know? So it's best to think of it as the two sides of the Hollywood street.

I'm not gonna put words in my wife's mouth but 'I bet' she doesn't like all the films coming out of Hollywood. Just a wild guess.....  I mean, it's sort of known that most people think there's a lot of crap coming out of Hollywood. I mean the people that work in Hollywood think that as well.

But look at it from a writer's perspective. You may have a script that is fucking brilliant, flat out amazing (talking about a 'spec'). You take it around to the studios/producers (your agent does) and they aren't interested. It's too weird, too small, it's too whatever. No one wants to buy it. Or maybe they buy/option it and sit on it and don't do anything with it. Yet they know full well that it's good.... and would make a great film. They just don't think anyone would see it. And they frankly say as much.

Meanwhile they have all their assignment jobs (the studios), the Scooby Doo VIII's and so forth. Those films are all green lit of course. You take a look at what is in development and it's ridiculous. Much, much crap. Stuff we all know is gonna be crap. How can Chip's the movie be any good? 

True, and yet it's the composers job to elevate whatever they've got in front of them, even crap (which was why none of my comments were directed at Sid). 


That's precisely why it's so important for the indie people to take a friggn RISK. That's precisely the reason the student film makers need to take a risk and try to think out side of the box. This is their chance to do WHATEVER THEY WAN'T. And the pay off can be huge. Why mimic? Look at Donnie Darko et al. A very strange yet original film. The director previously did a short that sucked. Had bad actors the whole bit. Spent too much money, had no script. He learned a lesson form that. Had to...

btw-- he wrote a great script and got signed to an agency that helped him put the film together. Off of a "great" script (Donnie Darko). Guess which agency. 

The point is, you gotta GO FOR IT. Why? Because that's the best chance you've got (as a writer/director especially) . You aren't gonna peak interest by doing the same ole cliched crap every other student/short film maker is doing. ESPECIALLY if you are trying to copy Hollywood. The last thing the world needs is a student film version of a bad Hollywood film (speaking generally). That's not what is gonna get Hollywoods attention anyway. You're grandma may love it. But you're odds are better getting a Hollywood career going by doing a film about a regular guy with who hates attention and finds himself with the image of Jesus on the side of his house--and now is caught in the middle of world wide news coverage. (Real script idea that got a guy signed to the best agency in the world. But it's not just about the idea, it's about the "guy". and why it is we find him compelling. The 'event' is the backdrop. It always is). Compare that to "Matrix-Kids". See the diff? One is fresh, one ain't..........


Even if you don't know what you're doing you have to try and have enough foresight to realize what you are doing has already been done to death if it has. It's simply recognizing why the cult/good films are cult/good films and infusing that into your own sensibilities of the world. A story that is compelling told only your way. *THAT* is a director.... 

What you (whoever) may stand to gain is a highly original film that is good, for one, and serves to get your foot in the door of Hollywood, secondly. From there you can do your assignment gigs and do the indie films on the side. You know , a career doing what you love AND getting paid big bucks.


But to start off trying to do Matrix-Kids, it's just not the smartest move. And feels forced and insincere. I believe it smarter to focus on character development and getting in touch with why films are made in the first place (the good ones -- the ones we walk away feeling moved by), and what simple element carries us through EVERY enjoyable film. Most young filmmakers don't understand what that element is, yet it's in every film they like. (easier said than done true, but easier if you "get" why you're making your film in the first place)

I personally believe they don't read enough scripts. They see cool "FX", cool characters, so they try to take the short cut. But it never pays off.


Anyway, I see a lot of awesome material pass through my wife's hands, it's too bad the studios won't make the majority of it... but that's life. And that is what the indie world is for.

Not intended to be a lecture, just my view through my eyes... and so that's what I'd say to a brand new director.

As for saving the world. I thought Bill Gates and Bono had that one....  :lol:


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## kid-surf (Aug 10, 2006)

josejherring @ Thu Aug 10 said:


> I think the whole point of the exchange was missed. Personally I made a point not to criticize his music but just in a blunt way tell kid that he was like Stravinsky who also didn't know much about performance as is evident if you've ever heard a recording of Stravinsky conducting Stravinsky. Sometimes we as composers aren't the best judge of how our music should be performed. I'm no exception. Performance and composition are really two different fields of study.
> 
> That you took it so hard Kid was actually a bit of a shock. That you tried to come back with quite personal insults not knowing me or the 6 projects that I've done in the last year, one of which is being consider for a Grammy nomination.
> 
> ...




I saw it differently... I guess we're entitled to that.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Aug 10, 2006)

Kid, I want to be everybody's friend and i don't enjoy getting into shouting matches. Life is too short and it's bad for my cholesterol.

But I find you very harsh at times in your abrupt criticism of others. You excuse your abruptness by saying it is for the sake of helping the poster and letting him/her see the picture from your perspective but I don't think you see how undiplomatic you can be. True, life is often undiplomatic but we are artists and as such, probably very tough on ourselves already (and taking a lot of crap from clients and such). 
I know you relate to what I am saying because I find you do not respond well to others' criticism (even though you claim you don't care)
I think that you are probably very sensitive yourself but you are hiding it.

Not liking one composer's music doesn't mean that this composer hasn't achieved a high level of accomplishment and doesn't deserve your respect. 
I am in awe at what some people on this board are able to accomplish and if sometimes I do not really dig one of their pieces I just don't post. 
It might be ME that is not getting the meaning of that piece after all.
I am all for positive criticism and actually you very correctly gave me perspective a while back on a piece I wrote that wasn't doing what it was supposed to do.

I actually enjoy your music and I would have said so earlier if i hadn't been taken aback by your approach. You often refer to how what matters to you ultimately is making it in the film industry and so I am sure that you know that social skills are very important in this business.

I am not hoping that you will consider my point for a moment because I feel you are pretty stuborn in your ways but at leat I got this out of my system and maybe you can appreciate where I am coming from?


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## kid-surf (Aug 11, 2006)

Hmmm, well i guess I feel a little baited since you apparently weren't interested in discussing the subject of film--the question you seemed to be asking me specifically. And I thought I explained it pretty well to you. And at the same time gave that newer director some worthwhile advice. Should Sid wish to pass it on....


Well, then let's put it on the table.

This all started, the animosity you have towards me, because I made a comment to you. I had a look at the comments I made to you and there are all kinds of disclaimers in there in hopes of not offending you. How else am I supposed to state my 'gut' reaction? You say my suggestions were correct but I still wonder if that offended you in some way.


I told you that, basically, for a horror cue it was too playful for me and not scary enough (i.e. for my sensibilities). I couldn't tell you why I felt that way. That's just what I felt when listening to it. I also said that maybe it plays differently with the picture. Generally my horror stuff is pretty dark, so that's just the way that cue hit me. I respond better to horror stuff that's really very dark. (read: evil)

Here's the link to that thread....

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3899

As for me not being able to take criticism. I can take it just fine when it's not veiled over a personal attack. If that's the case then I'm not gonna be 'nice' back to the guy who tries to disqualify my music. The folks that offered sincere advice to me, I considered it. Those people are Mike, Ned, and Scott off the top of my head.


Jose brought my music into a thread here that had absolutely nothing to do with my music. Brought it up out of the blue to try and put me in my place because he mistakenly assumed I said "anything at all" negative about Sid's music. Either that or he just doesn't like my bluntness. Either way it felt forced into the conversation and not organic. So the sensitivity I do have is for people that are just going for my balls. I feel I can tell the difference.


As for respect. It goes both ways. True, two wrongs don't make a right. I may have been a little more receptive to his "advice" if there was any. Yet, there was no advice I saw, simply him stating that my music was incapable of providing emotion, and that I was too ignorant to know why. And that it would be a very long while til I'd even be able to create something that resembled "musicality" (paraphrased). Whatever.... that's a flat out transparent slam in my book.

One I don't believe.... 

*I am in awe at what some people on this board are able to accomplish and if sometimes I do not really dig one of their pieces I just don't post.
It might be ME that is not getting the meaning of that piece after all. *

I don't comment on everything I listen to here either. But part of the listening thing is being honest with your thoughts, I believe. Put it this way. If I don't like something I'm not going to comment. Why bother telling someone I didn't like it, doesn't solve anything or help them. If I listen to something and think "that's close for me but I hear something that I feel would make it better", in that case I've commented a couple times and told the person what would make it better "to me".

Yet, they are free to ignore it. Like Mike and Scott sincerely both felt I had a level too high in one of my mixes. I listened again (even though I knew I already liked the levels) and decided I still liked where it's at. 

Ned had the comment about the ending of one of the cues. Maybe I'll try something like that down the road. 

Far as this film. Yeah I slammed it. First thing I've slammed. But also offered advice to the director if Sid wishes to pass it along. 

But here's the problem I see with not offering advice and just saying "neat piece". You turn into a site like NS which seems like it's 100% smoke up the ass. Too nice isn't very constructive. Disqualifying someone's music is too far the other way. Both people who slammed me offered nothing in the way of making those pieces of music any better. So that goes in the ignore pile for me.


*I actually enjoy your music and I would have said so earlier if i hadn't been taken aback by your approach. You often refer to how what matters to you ultimately is making it in the film industry and so I am sure that you know that social skills are very important in this business. *

Thanks about my music. As far as social skills -- It's hard to judge someone's social skills typed out onto a computer screen. I would say I do just fine in social settings. Out in the world I'm well liked. 

*True, life is often undiplomatic but we are artists and as such, probably very tough on ourselves already (and taking a lot of crap from clients and such). *

I think the easiest way to solve this rift is for me to stop commenting on work here unless I have only positive words. Otherwise, I can't help but to be direct. 

Does that wrap this up?


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## Sid_Barnhoorn (Aug 11, 2006)

Ey Kid,

Sure, I'll pass it on to him. Just for the record I don't mind critique and comments. I can get a long way with the ones I got now which were good. As long as there are no mindless personal attacks, like you said, with no usefullness whatsoever.

--------
I don't mind the thread becoming something more than it is, so the "hi-jack" is granted. I knew this film was going to raise some eyebrows and that's why I posted it. Since this wasn't a good production, at least nothing near the level of Paradox, I thought I'd take the risk. Plus, I like writting ambient works, I though it would be a nice way to colour the film some more and perhaps make it a little better and the film was something I'd not done before. Tough job but imo it was worthwhile to do since it was something new for me. Too bad the film didn't turn out that well, though I did my best. And that's why I posted it, to get comments, critiques because I knew they were waiting for me. But that's good, gives some new ideas to think about.

I'm going to work on their sci-fi trilogy Mars, which seems to be turning out quite better than Praxis but we'll see how it'll eventually turn out, ya never know. I wrote the "Arrival on Mars, Enter the Lifeboat and the Attack" cue for their screener version of the first episode:
http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4047

Diffirent scoring as opposed to Praxis but I think it's going to be a good scoring experience. Eitherway, I feel after a while of doing these shorts and getting more and more experience in scoring, I get more picky on what I will and won't score. But I guess that's a good thing.

Anyway, I'll pass it on to Rene (director), Kid. Thanks for your comments.

Cheers,


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## José Herring (Aug 11, 2006)

I said what I said the way that I said it because I'm noticing a pattern with you. You dish it out quite bluntly but when somebody dishes it back you go ballistic. 

There isn't one of us that couldn't stand improvement in some area of what we do. But, you came back at me with "I heard your reel. Not very good.", and "I don't believe in you as a composer". What kind of generalized statement is that?

I meant what I said. I said it harsh to be for sure. But if you don't get what I'm saying I'll elaborate further.

I'm a theme driven composer. Melody minded line writer. I "believe" in the power of a melody to carry the emotional content of a piece of music. Many composers do. If you don't then I can dig that. But most composers that I admire are tunesmiths. To write a good tune and to communicate that line musically is either an innate sense or a developed skill. I don't hear that in your music. To me you write beat to beat. I don't think you're concerned much about things like linear relationships, counterpoint, voiceleading, harmonic movement, ect.. I am. I actually think you find fault in people that do think linearly. 

Well at anyrate. It's okay. We're from two different worlds musically speaking. Perhaps some day we'll meet and laugh at this. But until then we'll just have to put up with eachother.

José


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Aug 11, 2006)

Jose,

While I agree with some of your points, I think you're going a bit too far into Kid's head. I, for one, don't assume to know how he works, what is going on in his mind when he's composing, and I find it unfair that you do. At this point, I would really suggest that you consider PMs instead of posting anymore very personal rebuttals related to his passion.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Aug 11, 2006)

Kid, as I posted earlier, I had no problem with your comments on my weak piece.
It actually helped.
What got me to post here is your comments on TJ, Niah, Sid and Jose.

It's not about giving construtructing criticism, I'm all up for that: it's about the way you go about doing it (and also about not being so gracious when being on the other end of the criticism...)
You are probably not that acidic in real time conversations I bet, or else I can't see how people would actually enjoy your company...


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