# Main theme for a cultural documentary tv series



## TARI (Aug 25, 2005)

Hello mates, I am here again with this piece. It is the main theme for a cultural documentary tv series about the Spanish language history. Advices are welcome :wink: 

http://www.eduardotarilonte.net/tari/caminolengua.mp3


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## Waywyn (Aug 25, 2005)

hey there, i would say that the rhythm is cool but boring after 30 or 40 seconds.
then i can't really get a grip on the melody. i would rather qualify it as a background track than a maintheme.
also the brass sounds really swell-ish all the time. it seems to be just one articulation all over the place and the line it playes is somehow disrupted and disconnected and very hasseling (dunno if thats the right word)

the all in all sound i don't know it sounds a little bit cheap. what did you use for brass and the orchestra in common?

sorry but i am not the guy who just gives some comments like "brilliant, excellent, awesome". i prefer to help instead, so it is ment all constructive.


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## TARI (Aug 25, 2005)

Hi Waywin! Thanks for your words. I don't post here to listen "excellent". Well, it is not really the main theme, but it is on of them (it is a very long series).
I don't agree about the cheap sound, I use VSL ( I don't mean that using this everything sound well).
I should use the word minimalist instead of boring... :wink: but, of course is a matter of tastes.
The brasses have varios articulations, flatter, cresc. flatter, stac, etc.
The intention with this piece is not to create a melody, just an ambient.
Thanks again for your comments Waywin


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## Waywyn (Aug 25, 2005)

sorry i didnt mean to say really cheap, but the brass notes, when they come in, sounds like it would swell in all the time. not a long swell but really short so it sounds if you would also use the same notes for playing the brass part.

thats what i ment.

edit: also, i can only write my comments after what you described the piece is for. if you say it is THE maintheme then i assume it is


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## TARI (Aug 25, 2005)

You are right!!! :D


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## Niah (Aug 25, 2005)

Humm, I didn't think it was boring.  

Seriously I liked this, it has a nice natural progression of the elements and it's interesting all the way throught IMO.

As for the sounds... well, VSL is not cheap but it can sound cheap at times because it's too dry IMO. 
I don't see a problem though since this is for a TV doc, this is the type of sound I usually here on TV Docs.


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## TARI (Aug 25, 2005)

Thanks Niah. Sometimes I prefer to make a dry sound than wet, but sometimes is the contrary!!! It is a difficult matter to succeed with the reverb :wink:


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## TheoKrueger (Aug 25, 2005)

Hey Tari, nice work!

I like the way you can stick to a simple theme but evolve it into something that doesn't get repetitive by adding new themes and instruments. 

I'm really bad at history and cultural references, but since this is for the Spanish language, i think you could add some instrument that will "ring" more Spain when you hear it, like Spanish guitar chords perhaps, castanets, tambourines or something similar to that. The shakers you used works very well btw.

Very enjoyable piece.

Keep it up Tari!


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## José Herring (Aug 25, 2005)

I agree that in order to pull this off complete with the repetative rhythm thing you need more variation in the orchestral--Ravel "Bolero" type thing.

The theme is pretty clear to me. It's nice.

The overall sound sounds samply though. The sequencing good but the sound needs more ambience. Try putting a low level impulse of about 5 seconds. Using a plate verb with what you already have on there and you'll achieve a better overall sound.

Jose


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## TARI (Aug 25, 2005)

Thanks Theo :wink: 
The fact is that this documentary is something medieval, and spanish guitars are more from flamenco. If I use a spanish guitar here, could sound like OL?!!! :lol: 
Thanks you for your words, you know I am a fan of your works!!!

Thanks Jos?. I know, I always have the same problem: reverb. I really don't spend any time mixing and mastering. It will sound really better doing a good mixing work, but I have no time to do it :cry:


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## Waywyn (Aug 25, 2005)

hi tari, without sounding offend but why don't you have time to do it?

i mean you produce music for a tv show and of course the best thing is when they already like your stuff.

but i think if you do everything on your own you should take enought time for mixing and mastering.

the composing is one thing, but at least 50% of a project is good mixing and mastering. i know that a lot of guys even give their stuff to anyelse because they have no time or just don't wanna do it.

but in my personal opinion i am still not that far or well known to just spend my time on composing etc.

also i like to mix and master my stuff because it is also a kind of an ego thing ..."this is my stuff, nobody touches it, okay?" 

but to be serious, learn to get familiar with good reverb settings, listen to orchestra stuff and then do some decent mastering or even apply EQs and limiter on it.

in case if you don't know exactly how to do that, there are tons of mixing and mastering tutorials online. just google around. there are so many i can't even think of something specific...


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## TARI (Aug 25, 2005)

Hi Waywin, I don't spend the same time composing than mixing. The fact is that when I finish a piece I want to start another. I also believe in specialization. I will never mix and master as one profesional do. I prefer spending my time composing.
When the work is important (like this) I work with a friend who has a recording studio and mixes and master (as I like). I am with him in this task, but he does it well and fast. He is very good. I will go there when all the music is finished.
In one month or two I am going to have a good home studio that I don't have now. This will help to do good mixes and mastering.
I really want to get better in this task, and in a few time I will start to learn a lot.
IMO if composition is good, you don't have to worry, the next thing is going to a good studio for mixing with a great technician.
Of course I know the value (also $ this value :wink: ) of a good sound, but sometimes I cannot do as I should like.


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## Waywyn (Aug 25, 2005)

yeh, i hear you ...

and it is also good to have a buddy who is mixing or mastering your stuff.

but just as a compareness (maybe it is bad but you will understand what i mean).

if you build or bought a house and you order a wall painter but he would just be able to paint the walls of your house to a height of 2meters, because he is not able to climb the ladder or build a scaffolding (hope thats the right word ), you would, well, maybe be pretty upset.

all i want to say is, that if you sell something just make sure you are able to do it (or let it do) because you get money for your jobs.

i know that there are things we want to do and not, but when you say: "if you finished a composition i want to start the next" ... it kinda sounds to me like ... "well whatever, the piece is finished but i don't care whats happening with it at the end"

i hope you know what i mean.

there are pros and cons in your work but going through all instances is the best, even it is not fun all the time 

so mixing and mastering is like the polishing of your work to let it shine and glow in the sun, without mixing and mastering a piece is just half good.


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## TARI (Aug 25, 2005)

Yes, you are right!! Of course I'd like to be able to do a great mixing and masternig work. It is my next step, as I told you.

Really is the best way (and the hardest). :wink:


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## Waywyn (Aug 25, 2005)

well one of the cooles things, is the community here, i am sure a lot of people will help out with your next task


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## TARI (Aug 25, 2005)

I hope so!! :D


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## fictionmusic (Aug 25, 2005)

Wow a 2:40 TV theme! Is it to picture, or is it a theme you have written that will be edited to picture? 

I think it develops well but it seems a little monochromatic for such a long piece, I think a contrasting section would have been effective, and, if it is going to be actually coming in at around 1:00 min or so, to develop faster (like getting to the stuff at 1:07 et al sooner for instance). I also agree with Jose about the synthy sounds (more at the top where it is the most critical) but the later stuff sounds fine. 

Either way, I liked it, and I thought it was an interesting theme and well suited to a documentary.


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## Waywyn (Aug 26, 2005)

hey tari,

one quick thing, i appreciate joses help, but before getting or buying ozone, please make sure you understand the logic of EQs, multiband compressors, limiters.

i know that opening up ozone the first time you will be pretty confused whats this all about. i had this experience as well the first time i tried it.

so again, before using or buying it, i would first understand the ways of these plugins, because ozone is just a complete bundle of these things.

so if you have some cheap plugs in your sequencer i would start very easily to setup the following plugin chain:

eq, multiband compressor, limiter.

eq is just there to correct some wrong frequencies (or add some)

multiband compressor brings up the levels on each section of frequencies (usually a multiband comp got 3 or 4 sections ... 0-100-Hz, 100-700 Hz, 700-3000, 3000-12000... just as an examples, it variies and you can still change them yourself)

limiter brings up the output level as high as you want. usually people go up to a headroom of -1db - -0,1db to make sure your song is really cd quality or standard volume.

be aware that the track is not starting to pump or getting distorted.

get a feeling for that stuff. hope that helped.


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## TARI (Aug 26, 2005)

fictionmusic said:


> Wow a 2:40 TV theme! Is it to picture, or is it a theme you have written that will be edited to picture?
> 
> I think it develops well but it seems a little monochromatic for such a long piece, I think a contrasting section would have been effective, and, if it is going to be actually coming in at around 1:00 min or so, to develop faster (like getting to the stuff at 1:07 et al sooner for instance). I also agree with Jose about the synthy sounds (more at the top where it is the most critical) but the later stuff sounds fine.
> 
> Either way, I liked it, and I thought it was an interesting theme and well suited to a documentary.



Hi fictionmusic. This is a theme that will be as abackround music in some moments, and also I made a version of 30 seconds for the entrance.
I will try to correct those things, and thank you for your comments. :wink:


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## TARI (Aug 26, 2005)

Hey Alex, thanks for your advices. I have some experience with dinamics, eqs, etc. I know what they do, the problem is to be really good managing them. Sometimes is better not touching and eq than doing something wrong. So, what I want is to know what can I really do and what not. And of course learning some "secret "tricks would be great


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## José Herring (Aug 26, 2005)

pssss.... :wink: Secret on using multiband. If it doesn't sound good, keep working until it does. 

2) Less is more in orchestral music
3) More is more in rock and urban
4) for pop season to taste

and final secret........READ THE MANUAL.

Joking aside the manual in Ozone is really good. They explain everything. They explain mastering as putting on a final coat of wax on an already clean car. So if the mix sucks then wax won't help your car. If the mix is good the wax makes it nice and shinny.

But the mix has got to be good.

But from experience I know that the mix is usually good if the music is good, ie. well written, orchestrated, ect.

Reverb I found is actually quite easy once you understand what you're trying to do. I did some research on accoustics in an encyclopedia and since then I've been much better at reverb.

I just try to imagine if the music where live what type of space would people usually be accustomed to hearing that type of music. Sometimes I make mistakes as I once heard a big band in a symphony hall miced with reverb. I did a swing piece with that in mind and it was way to verby. So I then releazed that most of this stuff was in dance halls with packed bodies and no artificial reverb. Sounded more authentic.

This is a good reverb program I just got that mimics different rooms really well using a unique IR alogorhythm.

http://www.quikquak.com/


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## Toddk (Aug 26, 2005)

Jose,

I really like your points about composing/ AND mixing.

Its very true. We do have to be sound engineers as well.

Sound is important. If it doesnt sound good, the point
of the music doesnt get across.

i also feel, Its important in mixing, as it is in composing, to have 
a clear conception of what you're going for before you even
turn any equipment on.

On a side note, im getting very used to EWQLSO Gold
now, and loving the fact that it basically requires no mixing.
The mixing is all in the velocity and expresion.
Slap a Waves L3 on the master, and im done. :D :D 

TK


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## Waywyn (Aug 26, 2005)

Yay Todd, that is the nice "sideeffect" of the EWQLSO libs.
In terms of this i really love them. Just go and compose.

The other side is, that i started to get into Opus, Sam and True Strike and i have the feeling to get a more different sound and more unique sound.

However, i don't want to start arguing or hijacking this thread but i sometimes feel that you always have one sound with EWQLSO. Of course, you can EQ or master differently but most of the time you still got that one hall, which is great of course, but .... argllll, you know what i wanna say.

To make it short, just using something out of the box makes you lazy on very important things. Of course only if you let it happen


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## José Herring (Aug 26, 2005)

Toddk said:


> Slap a Waves L3 on the master, and im done. :D :D
> 
> TK



Love that! One day soon I'll have enough money for the Waves and/or UAD and/or Poco and my life will be a lot easier.

I do love the Ozone though. I put some of my live chambermusic scores through it yesterday for a demo for a Jazz opera crossover gig and man did it smooth everything out. Works really well with live stuff. Sample stuff a bit more work. Maybe the Waves will be the ticket for my sample work.

Jose


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## Niah (Aug 26, 2005)

Mixing different libraries is the way to go, not only you will get a more diverse sound but you will also cover each of the libraries' weeknesses.


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## Toddk (Aug 26, 2005)

Waywyn said:


> Yay Todd, that is the nice "sideeffect" of the EWQLSO libs.
> In terms of this i really love them. Just go and compose.
> 
> The other side is, that i started to get into Opus, Sam and True Strike and i have the feeling to get a more different sound and more unique sound.
> ...



Using factory presets doesnt make anybody lazy.
People who fish through loops, and presets, are lazy
to start with, not to mention lacking musical knowledge.

Being good at this job, means knowing what to use, how to use
it, and when to use it. Wether its VSL performance tool,
or a totally untouched Stormdrum loop.
All depends on the job.

Big fan of your music/work by the way. 

Man, look at us thread hi-jackin MF'ers!! :lol: 
TK


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