# I Don't Enjoy This Anymore



## tsk (Dec 22, 2021)

Edit, to update:

After almost four months since I first posted, I have decided that on Monday I will begin looking for full time work outside of music, and I guess I'll have to notify my publishers that I am leaving music entirely. I can't lift my hand to write something without crushing bitterness weighing down on my head.

Music is so disappointing, with almost no regulation or oversight. Exploitation is rampant and after fighting for years simply to get paid for e.g. the royalties from commercials airing nationally, I can't continue this fight any longer without losing what's left of my mental health.

I pity anyone entering music now.

So, back to the office (if I'm lucky) it is.

----
Original post:

Writing music is my full time occupation and has been good to me over the years. But gradually, and more and more in the last couple years, I find I spend about 80% of my time on stressful admin. Chasing down payments that haven't been sent, payments that were sent to the wrong account, royalties for commercials that were never tracked, submitting commercials info, royalties for pieces that were never registered, royalties that were paid to someone else, registrations which were done wrong by a publisher. Somehow this takes up so much time now.

This has slowly eroded and ultimately destroyed my desire to make music. I am not enthusiastic anymore. I don't enjoy writing anymore. I used to get excited about new virtual instruments, about ideas that would come into my head for a project I was working on. It decreased slowly over time and is now at the point where I have zero desire to sit down and write. I know that it is a lucky position to be in, where I can write music as my full time work, but I think I'm pretty much finished mentally. I think the youth of today call this "mentally checked out".

I needed to vent because this has been getting me down more and more over the last few months in particular. But it's been building for years. And if this is why some people succeed and others fail by giving up, then I accept my failing.

I feel like it's time for me to do something else.


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## MartinH. (Dec 22, 2021)

tsk said:


> Writing music is my full time occupation and has been good to me over the years. But gradually, and more and more in the last couple years, I find I spend about 80% of my time on stressful admin. Chasing down payments that haven't been sent, payments that were sent to the wrong account, royalties for commercials that were never tracked, submitting commercials info, royalties for pieces that were never registered, royalties that were paid to someone else, registrations which were done wrong by a publisher. Somehow this takes up so much time now.
> 
> This has slowly eroded and ultimately destroyed my desire to make music. I am not enthusiastic anymore. I don't enjoy writing anymore. I used to get excited about new virtual instruments, about ideas that would come into my head for a project I was working on. It decreased slowly over time and is now at the point where I have zero desire to sit down and write. I know that it is a lucky position to be in, where I can write music as my full time work, but I think I'm pretty much finished mentally. I think the youth of today call this "mentally checked out".
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear that! I'm not a composer, but I totally get it. I don't understand why anyone would want that job in the first place. Maybe you can find someone you trust that you can outsource all the admin work to? It sounds like even if you switch jobs there's still royalties money that needs chasing down longterm. Maybe others here have ideas for that.

If you're looking for suggestions what else you could do to earn a living, you'll have to give us some more background info about what you'd enjoy, what you dislike and what you're good at. Just don't give up, there's something out there for you too! 

If you can afford to, taking a break for a while and focusing on your (mental) health may be a good decision too. Such a stressful job situation likely caused some damage worth fixing. Best of luck to you!


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## tsk (Dec 22, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Sorry to hear that! I'm not a composer, but I totally get it. I don't understand why anyone would want that job in the first place. Maybe you can find someone you trust that you can outsource all the admin work to? It sounds like even if you switch jobs there's still royalties money that needs chasing down longterm. Maybe others here have ideas for that.
> 
> If you're looking for suggestions what else you could do to earn a living, you'll have to give us some more background info about what you'd enjoy, what you dislike and what you're good at. Just don't give up, there's something out there for you too!
> 
> If you can afford to, taking a break for a while and focusing on your (mental) health may be a good decision too. Such a stressful job situation likely caused some damage worth fixing. Best of luck to you!


Thank you. Yes, long term there are royalties to be collected, which is absolutely a good thing. But I'm at the point where I don't want to think about it anymore. I'll just take whatever ends up being sent to me without querying it. I simply can't face it anymore. It feels like a constant fight to get paid, day after day after day.


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## Arbee (Dec 22, 2021)

You'll get so many responses to this, but I"ve been there. After 14 years I realised I was done, and after some career advice to confirm my gut feeling I shifted into business software development with some study. For me, it was the best thing I could have done and it built into a technology management career of some 25 years. 

Yet here I am again 😏, though not relying on music for a living these days, and loving it!


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## Ivan M. (Dec 22, 2021)

You would think that those administrative things would be automated in this day and age, but no...



Arbee said:


> software development


And many software devs hate software dev. BS is everywhere. Everything is turning into one gigantic managerial bureaucratic monstrosity.


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## mybadmemory (Dec 22, 2021)

I think the reality of any creative business is that the majority of the work is actually not the craft itself but selling the work and administrate the business. I think you either have to like those parts as well, outsource it to agents and accountants, or team up with someone who runs the business side of things while you do the creative parts and collectively earn enough to sustain the both of you. As much as we’d all want the fun stuff to be 80% of what we do I just don’t think that’s the reality, but often rather the opposite, or perhaps 50/50 at best. I’m not a composer btw, but have the same experience from the design field.


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## Marcus Millfield (Dec 22, 2021)

Ivan M. said:


> And many software devs hate software dev. BS is everywhere. Everything is turning into one gigantic managerial bureaucratic monstrosity.



This.

I went from working on being a pro trumpet player to working in IT to working in psychological healthcare to working in IT again and everywhere there's the same shit: competition, no budgets, 24/7 workdays, high pressure to find work/deliver on targets.

Having had a burn-out and multiple health issues because of this, I learned one thing: IT'S NOT WORTH IT. 

Stay healthy, stay happy. Good luck finding your joy again.


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## TheUnfinished (Dec 22, 2021)

You can never underestimate being happy. Nobody ever stops and thinks: "I wish I'd been a bit less happy, to be honest."

Like someone else said, if you can afford to, take some time off. Give yourself the space to work out what you might want to do next.


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## Vlzmusic (Dec 22, 2021)

tsk said:


> Writing music is my full time occupation and has been good to me over the years. But gradually, and more and more in the last couple years, I find I spend about 80% of my time on stressful admin. Chasing down payments that haven't been sent, payments that were sent to the wrong account, royalties for commercials that were never tracked, submitting commercials info, royalties for pieces that were never registered, royalties that were paid to someone else, registrations which were done wrong by a publisher. Somehow this takes up so much time now.
> 
> This has slowly eroded and ultimately destroyed my desire to make music. I am not enthusiastic anymore. I don't enjoy writing anymore. I used to get excited about new virtual instruments, about ideas that would come into my head for a project I was working on. It decreased slowly over time and is now at the point where I have zero desire to sit down and write. I know that it is a lucky position to be in, where I can write music as my full time work, but I think I'm pretty much finished mentally. I think the youth of today call this "mentally checked out".
> 
> ...


Indeed, it sounds like you are burnt by the hurdles of being self employed, not necessarily being a musician. If there's a slight chance for you to do what you do working for someone else, I would try that. In every field out there, running your own business is the more lucrative option, naturally, but does it worth your health, no.


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## BenG (Dec 22, 2021)

Sorry to hear that but totally understandable. I think this is something that is normal across many industries these days and burnouts definitely happen for a variety of different reasons. A few things that have helped me; 

1. Switched over to mostly production music which has helped immensely. No more chasing gigs, working on my own schedule, and no more trying to collect missing royalties. Has had a huge impact on my career for the better and I would likely not be in music if I was still focused on scoring films/tv only. 

2. Diversified my income streams which lets me relax and not rely solely on my music income. I have another job outside of the music industry as well as several other projects here and there. (Marketing, web development, graphic design, video production, writing, reviews, teaching, etc.) This alleviates a lot of stress and always keeps things interesting compared to music alone. 

3. Perhaps most importantly, I took a break. These days I compose less than when I started out which lets me recharge and really enjoy the process when I am tasked with a new project, album, etc. It’s essential to get out of the monotony of any job in life and taking breaks help ensure you don’t lose your mind. 

I don’t know your situation but I do remember feeling that exhaustion from constantly trying to find work and collect lost residuals. It made me resent music and the industry to the point where it was to longer fun. It took a bit of time but pivoting towards other things has had a huge positive impact. 

Wishing you all the best!


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## Tim_Wells (Dec 22, 2021)

@tsk - Thank you for sharing! I think it's so important for us to understand the realities of making a living in this business.

To be honest, I could never do it. I struggle and struggle just to get a track to the point that I'm happy with. Add in the pressure of deadlines... and then having to chase down my earnings. Sh!t, I'd be a basket case. So kudos to you and others who earn a living at this!

Your idea of trying a different career is legit. I did earn a living playing music in night clubs and got very burned out. I went back to school... and yada, yada ... I ended up with good career working in Government IT. I was much happier and healthier. 

If you do change careers, there's nothing stopping you from going back to music some day.


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## tsk (Dec 22, 2021)

BenG said:


> Sorry to hear that but totally understandable. I think this is something that is normal across many industries these days and burnouts definitely happen for a variety of different reasons. A few things that have helped me;
> 
> 1. Switched over to mostly production music which has helped immensely. No more chasing gigs, working on my own schedule, and no more trying to collect missing royalties. Has had a huge impact on my career for the better and I would likely not be in music if I was still focused on scoring films/tv only.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I probably should have mentioned that I am in production music and have been from the start. In fact, all these problems have built up over time in production music only. It's been almost 15 years now or something like that and although it has made a healthy income, it's broken me at this point.


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## tsk (Dec 22, 2021)

For what it's worth, I also know that almost every industry, and whether I do something for myself or not, I'm going to run into stresses and problems. I've always believed that. But at this point I just can't continue with music.

Currently I'm considering real estate. As in, buying and renovating. On a small scale. Something that involves contact with other people, physical work that I can see in front of my eyes etc etc


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## Polkasound (Dec 22, 2021)

I can relate from another part of the music business. People see me up on stage playing music and assume that what I do is all fun and games, but the reality of it is that it's a business like any other, wrought with headache... all the advertising, negotiating, contracting, deposits, bookkeeping, issuing tax forms, hiring musicians, replacing musicians who bail out, musicians who show up late, event cancellations, dealing with purchasers who misread the contract and don't have payment or have it in the wrong form, all the behind-the-scenes backbreaking work of loading and unloading the stage equipment, repairing/replacing broken equipment, etc.

Several times over the years, I've come close to quitting as a bandleader and going back to being just a sideman in other people's bands. [It's so much less hassle – just show up, play, and get paid.] But what keeps me going as a bandleader (besides the better pay) is that I've gotten pretty good at it. I now have years of experience planning for problems and dealing with them when they occur. I can almost predict who is not going to pay me on time, which musician is likely to bail, which venues will have hindered stage access, etc.

But there are days I still think about disbanding my band and doing away with all the headaches. I wouldn't be surprised if I did that one day, and went back to working a 9-5 job.


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## sluggo (Dec 22, 2021)

tsk said:


> Writing music is my full time occupation and has been good to me over the years. But gradually, and more and more in the last couple years, I find I spend about 80% of my time on stressful admin. Chasing down payments that haven't been sent, payments that were sent to the wrong account, royalties for commercials that were never tracked, submitting commercials info, royalties for pieces that were never registered, royalties that were paid to someone else, registrations which were done wrong by a publisher. Somehow this takes up so much time now.
> 
> This has slowly eroded and ultimately destroyed my desire to make music. I am not enthusiastic anymore. I don't enjoy writing anymore. I used to get excited about new virtual instruments, about ideas that would come into my head for a project I was working on. It decreased slowly over time and is now at the point where I have zero desire to sit down and write. I know that it is a lucky position to be in, where I can write music as my full time work, but I think I'm pretty much finished mentally. I think the youth of today call this "mentally checked out".
> 
> ...


You are not alone in this sentiment and situation. Follow your gut. Happiness is not found in success in Film music. You don't have to spend much time with some of the most successful guys to observe that. But a small warning...there is a TON of admin work to be done in real-estate as well but not nearly as frustrating as chasing down royalties/checks etc.


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## mat1 (Dec 22, 2021)

tsk said:


> Currently I'm considering real estate. As in, buying and renovating. On a small scale. Something that involves contact with other people, physical work that I can see in front of my eyes etc etc


Sounds like a good idea. Another income will at least allow you to only do the jobs that don’t bring you down.


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## nolotrippen (Dec 22, 2021)

tsk said:


> I feel like it's time for me to do something else.


As a professional composer, you're basically the head of your own company. Most companies have the same problems you're going through. But if you're going through it alone, I feel your pain.


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## gsilbers (Dec 22, 2021)

tsk said:


> Writing music is my full time occupation and has been good to me over the years. But gradually, and more and more in the last couple years, I find I spend about 80% of my time on stressful admin. Chasing down payments that haven't been sent, payments that were sent to the wrong account, royalties for commercials that were never tracked, submitting commercials info, royalties for pieces that were never registered, royalties that were paid to someone else, registrations which were done wrong by a publisher. Somehow this takes up so much time now.
> 
> This has slowly eroded and ultimately destroyed my desire to make music. I am not enthusiastic anymore. I don't enjoy writing anymore. I used to get excited about new virtual instruments, about ideas that would come into my head for a project I was working on. It decreased slowly over time and is now at the point where I have zero desire to sit down and write. I know that it is a lucky position to be in, where I can write music as my full time work, but I think I'm pretty much finished mentally. I think the youth of today call this "mentally checked out".
> 
> ...



You can try and join composer studios who can deal with the non composing part of being a composer. 

Studios like bleeding fingers or several around LA that dont mind remote composers. 

They normally hire/are add folks who are already working composers and have clients. 
Sometimes post studios have inhouse composers. or game studios do the same..

Its not someting normally advertised. Its hand picked via networking. Its not so easy of course. but nothign is.


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## Mike Greene (Dec 22, 2021)

I understand where you're coming from. I eventually got to the point where I didn't even bother with chasing royalties for commercials anymore, because it was so time consuming. And not fun. So I convinced myself that it was a better use of my time to work on new stuff, rather than chasing every nickel. I'm not sure that was actually true, but I so hated chasing the little stuff, that that's what I did. (Just to be clear, royalties for TV shows were totally worth the chase, but commercials were almost never more than a few hundred bucks - for me, at least - so I was willing to sacrifice that, along with a few other things I deemed unworthy.)

I've been very fortunate that I've been able to have three "careers" in this business. The first was producing/songwriting for records, the second was TV composing, and the third is Realitone. With lots of overlap, of course.

I say "fortunate" because I don't think I could handle any of those individually for more than 10 or 20 years. If I were producing Foo Fighters and Adele and Lady Gaga, that would be one thing. But the 10th rap record isn't quite as exciting as the first one. Especially when you realize how many records bomb. And how "boooom, chick, boooom-boom, chick" isn't as fun the thousandth time as it was the first time.

Same with composing. If I could get big budget features, I could see staying excited with each new gig. With low budget TV, though, the newness wears off eventually and reality sets in. I remember being so excited with the first Hot Wheels commercial I did, and watching TV the entire Saturday morning so I could see it. But then ... it got to the point where there are some shows I've never even bothered to watch on TV. A whole lot of shows are nothing but a paycheck, not just for me, but even for the producers. It's still kinda fun, but the actual "thrill" is gone.

Even with Realitone, I absolutely love doing this ... so far. But if I had started this when I was 20, I think I'd be headed for the exit by now.

So I think transitioning into real estate or contracting could be a great move. I'm not saying you _should_ do that, because only you can decide, obviously. But I totally understand it. Variety is the spice of life, and all that, so it could be exactly the recharge you need.


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## CT (Dec 22, 2021)

I truly hope that you're able to find your way.


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## Soundbed (Dec 22, 2021)

BenG said:


> A few things that have helped me;
> 
> 1. Switched over to mostly production music which has helped immensely. No more chasing gigs, working on my own schedule, and no more trying to collect missing royalties. Has had a huge impact on my career for the better and I would likely not be in music if I was still focused on scoring films/tv only.
> 
> ...


I've done these 3 things as well.



tsk said:


> Thank you. I probably should have mentioned that I am in production music and have been from the start. In fact, all these problems have built up over time in production music only. It's been almost 15 years now or something like that and although it has made a healthy income, it's broken me at this point.



Ah, ok. Definitely sounds like burnout.

Good luck on your journey!


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## GtrString (Dec 22, 2021)

Good luck man. I can understand why doing production music would wear you out, and the hassle with the subpubs/ libraries. Frankly, I don't get why anybody would do it. I hear so many burn out fast, like you.

I guess film & TV will have to settle with robot composers in the future, back to the pre 90's it is..


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## NoamL (Dec 22, 2021)

You need an assistant, I'd say. Not offering myself as I already have a position so - no conflict of interest there! Just my observation - your issues are too much stuff to keep track of that you NEVER signed up to do. That would drain the enthusiasm from any career.

Just being a composer is already being an entrepreneur with lots of stressful responsibilities like pitching & ongoing studio costs. You can't stack payment tracking and cuesheet on top of that and expect things to go 100% smoothly. Chronic issues with payment or tracking, also brings up the idea that there could be something you could change or have someone help you with, and get a better result. I say this especially if you have been a "one man band" for years - keep your mind open to someone else coming in and saying "why don't you do it X way instead?"

The good stuff right now is 1) you have a pretty clear mental outline of the duties you'd want a potential assistant to take off your plate, 2) it seems like you have enough income & enough headaches that you can really make it worth someone's while to help you, 3) because those duties are _mostly_ nonmusical, it shouldn't be difficult finding someone. Just be honest about the potential benefits (remote work?) and drawbacks (not much scope for advancement, you're definitely not looking for someone to help you with music) from the applicant's point of view.


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## tsk (Dec 22, 2021)

NoamL said:


> You need an assistant, I'd say. Not offering myself as I already have a position so - no conflict of interest there! Just my observation - your issues are too much stuff to keep track of that you NEVER signed up to do. That would drain the enthusiasm from any career.
> 
> Just being a composer is already being an entrepreneur with lots of stressful responsibilities like pitching & ongoing studio costs. You can't stack payment tracking and cuesheet on top of that and expect things to go 100% smoothly. Chronic issues with payment or tracking, also brings up the idea that there could be something you could change or have someone help you with, and get a better result. I say this especially if you have been a "one man band" for years - keep your mind open to someone else coming in and saying "why don't you do it X way instead?"
> 
> The good stuff right now is 1) you have a pretty clear mental outline of the duties you'd want a potential assistant to take off your plate, 2) it seems like you have enough income & enough headaches that you can really make it worth someone's while to help you, 3) because those duties are _mostly_ nonmusical, it shouldn't be difficult finding someone. Just be honest about the potential benefits (remote work?) and drawbacks (not much scope for advancement, you're definitely not looking for someone to help you with music) from the applicant's point of view.


I've thought about this too. But I need to step back for a while before I can decide if it's really worth it. Taking on an employee would be a scary move for me. It is a possible solution though.

What's holding me back is the thought that, and I know this is common: "If I haven't been able to do this, and I really care about it and know the ins and outs, how is someone else going to be able to"?


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## tsk (Dec 22, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> I understand where you're coming from. I eventually got to the point where I didn't even bother with chasing royalties for commercials anymore, because it was so time consuming. And not fun. So I convinced myself that it was a better use of my time to work on new stuff, rather than chasing every nickel. I'm not sure that was actually true, but I so hated chasing the little stuff, that that's what I did. (Just to be clear, royalties for TV shows were totally worth the chase, but commercials were almost never more than a few hundred bucks - for me, at least - so I was willing to sacrifice that, along with a few other things I deemed unworthy.)
> 
> I've been very fortunate that I've been able to have three "careers" in this business. The first was producing/songwriting for records, the second was TV composing, and the third is Realitone. With lots of overlap, of course.
> 
> ...


Thanks as well. I guess I always figured that over time it should get easier, but although the music side has got better and placements have increased, the administration side has become much more stressful and complicated.

In my case, the commercials are what have usually paid out significant royalties. I had the exact same thought, "I should let them go and concentrate on making more music". But when I see how much the commercials are airing it becomes more and more difficult.


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## tsk (Dec 22, 2021)

I'm surprised people are so nice here. I was expecting "don't be so whiny" to come up.

So here I am, having spent the day dismantling and packing away my home studio into storage. Whether or not I ever go back to writing, this time I need to make "taking a break" into a complete break without any studio time. Now I just have a bare room.

I decided that I'm going to stop everything until the beginning of January, when I will contact the two most important unresolved issues (publishers and PROs) and give it one last chance. I'll let them know that I need this critical issue resolved or I can't justify to myself to write any more for them. And in the case of the PRO, after speaking to a composer friend, it seems I may need to find legal representation.

If things work out well, I can go back to writing 10 hours a week or less, for just that publisher and no other, while finding something else to do as well.

If not, then I can continue with my bare room and find something else to do on its own.

Having some kind of plan now, or roadmap, is helping.


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## mat1 (Dec 22, 2021)

Maybe a manager working on commission would be a better fit?


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## Troels Folmann (Dec 22, 2021)

I can relate. But be kind to yourself too. It’s a pandemic. Things are not pretty at the moment. Yet it opens up some important discussions that we perhaps couldn’t see - or weren’t willing to see - in the past. Thanks for being vulnerable.


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## CyberPunk (Dec 22, 2021)

tsk said:


> Writing music is my full time occupation and has been good to me over the years. But gradually, and more and more in the last couple years, I find I spend about 80% of my time on stressful admin. Chasing down payments that haven't been sent, payments that were sent to the wrong account, royalties for commercials that were never tracked, submitting commercials info, royalties for pieces that were never registered, royalties that were paid to someone else, registrations which were done wrong by a publisher. Somehow this takes up so much time now.
> 
> This has slowly eroded and ultimately destroyed my desire to make music. I am not enthusiastic anymore. I don't enjoy writing anymore. I used to get excited about new virtual instruments, about ideas that would come into my head for a project I was working on. It decreased slowly over time and is now at the point where I have zero desire to sit down and write. I know that it is a lucky position to be in, where I can write music as my full time work, but I think I'm pretty much finished mentally. I think the youth of today call this "mentally checked out".
> 
> ...


Man I am really sorry you feel this way, and I hope you can find some time to find inner peace, all the business side burns your mind and you stop writing music, which itself should be something beautiful and inspiring. In a way you make me feel grateful that I did not went for a compositional degree first but an engineer position. That way I can find time to write music while not having to worry to much about bills and stuff, It is difficult, and I do not make a lot of money, neither do I have the most expensive equipment, or studio out there, just a couple of keyboards, my computer, ipad and maybe a couple hundreds bucks worths of plugin. I am actually very grateful what I have accomplished in my music career, not a lot even so, I hope again you can find that inspiration, recharge your batteries and focus on what matters. It is the end of the year, we are all burnout and hoping next year is going to be better, hey I wish you happy holidays and a wonderful 2022. Bring your head up everything is going to be fine.


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## rgames (Dec 22, 2021)

@tsk I definitely hear you. What you are describing occurs all the time when a venture becomes successful, in music or otherwise.

The entrepreneur is almost never the Chief Operating Officer, at least not a very good one. The skillsets are very different. Getting a business going requires laser focus on the product (in your case, music). Then, if it's successful, you have to add a process focus to keep it going. At that point the person who created the product is almost never the one who keeps the process going. Again, different skillsets.

So, as noted above, it seems the smart thing to do is hire a business manager. Or at least an assistant.

Then you can continue with a focus on the product because that's what you're good at. Let the process people do the process stuff.

(But for future reference: product dictates process. Many businesses fail because they let the process dictate the product after they achieve some level of success. So keep an eye out for that blunder.)

rgames


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## Brobdingnagian (Dec 22, 2021)

Best of luck and enjoy the Holidays. Hopefully, they shall provide you with the peace and clarity you need at this time.

In my humble opinion, hiring a competent (and music biz knowledgeable) attorney to reach out on your behalf might just be the best move for you at this time. You can deduct the cost on your business, and make it their problem to get through to people, without it taking such an emotional toll on you.

I agree with Troels up above - do not forget to be kind to yourself.


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## tsk (Dec 22, 2021)

Brobdingnagian said:


> Best of luck and enjoy the Holidays. Hopefully, they shall provide you with the peace and clarity you need at this time.
> 
> In my humble opinion, hiring a competent (and music biz knowledgeable) attorney to reach out on your behalf might just be the best move for you at this time. You can deduct the cost on your business, and make it their problem to get through to people, without it taking such an emotional toll on you.
> 
> I agree with Troels up above - do not forget to be kind to yourself.


I think it's a good suggestion, but the part which worries me is that if I have an attorney contact my publishers, PROs etc, on my behalf, will it sour the relationship with them? And because of that, will there be subtle retaliation? For example, my tracks aren't promoted anymore, or payments disappear, or future contracts are canceled etc.

I think at this point, unless there's a miracle in the next couple weeks (maybe even a Christmas miracle), I will end up contacting an attorney, since in at least one case I may not have much left to lose. And I can ask the attorney at that time how these things usually go.

Actually, just thinking some more: I think an attorney might be more useful than an assistant for me at the moment. I think one of the problems is that I'm not considered enough of a "problem" by the publisher / PRO I'm having trouble with. I know the issue. They know the issue. But they can't be bothered to do anything because "who cares". An assistant will run into the same problem as me: "who cares, what's he/she going to do anyway". But an attorney might be capable of making them actually do something. This fits with a success story of a composer friend of mine who had to bring in an attorney.


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## rgames (Dec 22, 2021)

tsk said:


> I think one of the problems is that I'm not considered enough of a "problem" by the publisher / PRO I'm having trouble with.


I'm with you there as well. Not on the publisher side but on the PRO side. I've been screwed by ASCAP more times than I care to think about.

The PROs are basically mafias. Like all mature bureaucracies they exist for the sake of, well, existing. They don't actually provide any value as of about 20 years ago. They did at one point in history.

I think the problem you'll run into with a lawyer is that whatever agreement you signed likely says, in essence, that the PROs don't actually have to do their job if they don't feel like it. So be prepared for that outcome. You can have every verified legal claim to payment for use of your music and the PROs can still, legally, *not* pay you. It's a screwed up system that, just like a mafia, preys on the many to benefit the few.

But I digress...

However, I digress because I share your frustration in that matter.

rgames


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## noldar12 (Dec 23, 2021)

To make a different sort of suggestion: what about baking or cooking? Especially when one gets good at baking, there is a creative element to it that in some ways can rival music composition (pay may be an issue <smile>). For example, it becomes possible to improvise good new cookie recipes on the spot.

Disclaimer: I've spent much of today baking improvised recipes for Christmas. At one point I gave some serious thought to opening my own baking business (and did some interim testing), but ultimately decided against it (in the U.S., in some states it is legal to do certain types of commercial baking from a home kitchen).

In any case, there are all kinds of creative professions that we just don't often think about.


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## pmountford (Dec 23, 2021)

I'm not sure if this has been suggested before but I'm sure there are agencies who specialise in this admin role. I know I was contacted not so long ago asking if I wanted to use their services - basically I would tell them what I'd written and then they'd do the legwork to ensure royalties were chased and paid. Would this help?

I've never used them as I have a publisher and only a handful of films to my name.

As for the burn-out, for want of another word, I'm really in agreement with so many others here. Sorry to hear you're in this position. It's not great when don't like your job. You've got one shot on our tiny planet and if you can afford to, then step back, enjoy your life while you have your health. Like so many this year, I've lost friends too young recently, which has made me reassess what is really important to me career wise and with life in general...


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## el-bo (Dec 23, 2021)

tsk said:


> What's holding me back is the thought that, and I know this is common: "If I haven't been able to do this, and I really care about it and know the ins and outs, how is someone else going to be able to"?


Because the part of all of this that you're good at makes it difficult to do the rest of the stuff, especially when there's a surplus of stress. The person you'd hire, who specialises in dealing with the more mundane aspects of this type of work, won't have all that residual stress hanging over their shoulders. You'll be left to do the bit of it all that you really care about...or will do, hopefully, once more.


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## tsk (Apr 8, 2022)

I'm posting this update in my original post as well:

After almost four months since I first posted, I have decided that on Monday I will begin looking for full time work outside of music, and I guess I'll have to notify my publishers that I am leaving music entirely. I can't lift my hand to write something without crushing bitterness weighing down on my head.

Music is so disappointing, with almost no regulation or oversight. Exploitation is rampant and after fighting for years simply to get paid for e.g. the royalties from commercials airing nationally, I can't continue this fight any longer without losing what's left of my mental health.

I pity anyone entering music now.

So, back to the office (if I'm lucky) it is.


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## liquidlino (Apr 8, 2022)

tsk said:


> I'm posting this update in my original post as well:
> 
> After almost four months since I first posted, I have decided that on Monday I will begin looking for full time work outside of music, and I guess I'll have to notify my publishers that I am leaving music entirely. I can't lift my hand to write something without crushing bitterness weighing down on my head.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that tsk. Best of luck finding work, and most of all, I hope you can rediscover the joy of music outside of commercial pressures. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but hopefully someways down the track.


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## nolotrippen (Apr 8, 2022)

tsk said:


> I'm posting this update in my original post as well:
> 
> After almost four months since I first posted, I have decided that on Monday I will begin looking for full time work outside of music, and I guess I'll have to notify my publishers that I am leaving music entirely. I can't lift my hand to write something without crushing bitterness weighing down on my head.
> 
> ...


Find a good job, but keep a hand in music if you still love it.


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## eakwarren (Apr 8, 2022)

I wish you the best @tsk. I've had three careers over the years and experienced the same. Reconnecting with those I love and being kind to myself helped me through transitional times.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Apr 8, 2022)

tsk said:


> I'm posting this update in my original post as well:
> 
> After almost four months since I first posted, I have decided that on Monday I will begin looking for full time work outside of music, and I guess I'll have to notify my publishers that I am leaving music entirely. I can't lift my hand to write something without crushing bitterness weighing down on my head.
> 
> ...


I agree with liquidlino above: When some time has passed, I hope you will be able to rediscover the joy of making music (no deadlines, no demands from clients, no fight for getting paid etc.)

Wish you the best!


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## MartinH. (Apr 8, 2022)

tsk said:


> I'm posting this update in my original post as well:
> 
> After almost four months since I first posted, I have decided that on Monday I will begin looking for full time work outside of music, and I guess I'll have to notify my publishers that I am leaving music entirely. I can't lift my hand to write something without crushing bitterness weighing down on my head.
> 
> ...



I know this likely doesn't feel like a win right now, but I really hope in just a few years time you'll look back fondly at this moment as the best decision of your life, with a career that spares you all the sorrow of the life of a creative freelancer, friendly colleagues at the office, and some unburdened free time to do the things you truly enjoy. If music still fuels your passion then that's great, but I would encourage you to try something entirely different to relive the exciting times of breaking into a new hobby and skill. There are tons of other cool things besides music! 
Would be cool to hear you report back here once you've settled into a new job.
Good luck and enjoy!


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## aeliron (Apr 8, 2022)

tsk said:


> I'm posting this update in my original post as well:
> 
> After almost four months since I first posted, I have decided that on Monday I will begin looking for full time work outside of music, and I guess I'll have to notify my publishers that I am leaving music entirely. I can't lift my hand to write something without crushing bitterness weighing down on my head.
> 
> ...


Echoing what some have said here: if it doesn't cause you PTSD, unpack your studio and have it handy for letting off creative steam, or when inspiration strikes. 

Maybe the jingle for your next business's ad 

Keep seeing your studio as a friend rather than a source of sadness. It's not the music at fault; it's the business.


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## vancomposer (Apr 8, 2022)

Just found this topic here now but TSK I salute you to make your frustration and feelings public and glad you are following your inner voice even if it means you are out! I have never left music entirely but I would have if not making the switch from being a touring and studio musician and also an instructor for 15 years to become a media composer. And I am doing that for 10 years now but also learned I need to find ways to keep a mental balance and found that through travel and a minimalist lifestyle. Mental health in general seems to be not much addressed in the music industry so again thanks for opening up and to anyone sharing their thoughts here. Good read!


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## NekujaK (Apr 8, 2022)

There's always... marry rich or marry someone with a job that pays big bucks.

I'm only half-joking, actually.

Interestingly enough, I know more than one musician/composer who's able to circumvent a lot of business-related stress and pressure simply because their partner is the primary breadwinner in the family.


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## Alex Niedt (Apr 8, 2022)

Best thing I ever did for my creativity and joy of making music was to get a job completely unrelated to music and audio. Now I reserve those things entirely for myself and only take on music/audio side work when I feel like it (almost never). Wishing you the best of luck!


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## pinki (Apr 9, 2022)

Thanks for this thread tsk.
The relationship between art and business is never easy. And I think it’s good to remind ourselves: we are first and foremost *artists*. That’s why we got in to this in the first place…that overwhelming desire to just *create*…nothing else mattered because music was, and is, the only thing that made any sense! That intoxicating power of making music!

But making a 100% of your income from being an artist ..that’s a whole different thing. It’s actually a rare few who do. One in a million.

Most of us have to have other streams of income to supplement the art. And I actually think that’s OK…it’s is a good way to go because it allows you to be more of the artist you truly are, in that you don’t have to “churn it out” and write stuff you are not proud of. Basically it gives you the power to say no. The proportion of my income from being an artist varies wildly but actually post-pandemic has gone up considerably. I’m not sure how I feel about that!


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## Roger Newton (Apr 9, 2022)

tsk said:


> After almost four months since I first posted, I have decided that on Monday I will begin looking for full time work outside of music, and I guess I'll have to notify my publishers that I am leaving music entirely. I can't lift my hand to write something without crushing bitterness weighing down on my head.


Why don't you find a job and do what I do.

I do production music as a hobby. My golf swing is more important to me than writing music. The idea of writing music for a living to me is an anathema. But writing as a hobby is nowhere near as bad. In fact it can be fun.

Why burn bridges with your publishers? Just say to them you're prepared to continue but only if you can write fewer tracks or whatever it is you write. If they say no, then look for another publisher.

I don't make much doing the music writing thing because in a way, it's a bit of a numbers game. I have about 180 tracks registered at the PRS and make about $35K on average a year from them. That's small fry but when the weather is bad and it's raining and foggy sometimes for months, it's difficult to find something as interesting to do.


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## Satorious (Apr 9, 2022)

Interesting thread. I decided trying to monetize something I loved doing in a largely competitive/exploitative arena was not likely to end well. Hats off to any of you who are able to make it work - I just knew this wasn't going to be for me! I know if I went this route, any passion/excitement would quickly dissipate into some soulless slog (something discovered after completing my degree). I separated "work" from "passions" early on. Whilst this makes me little more than a hobbyist who takes on the odd side-gig, I'm generally happy that divide/balance. Sure - the day-job isn't always super-exciting - but it consistently pays the bills, I still get "the spark" when I'm composing in my spare-time, and anything else good which comes from it all is an added bonus!


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## pinki (Apr 9, 2022)

Satorious said:


> Interesting thread. I decided trying to monetize something I loved doing in a largely competitive/exploitative arena was not likely to end well. Hats off to any of you who are able to make it work - I just knew this wasn't going to be for me! I know if I went this route, any passion/excitement would quickly dissipate into some soulless slog (something discovered after completing my degree). I separated "work" from "passions" early on. Whilst this makes me little more than a hobbyist who takes on the odd side-gig, I'm generally happy that divide/balance. Sure - the day-job isn't always super-exciting - but it consistently pays the bills, I still get "the spark" when I'm composing in my spare-time, and anything else good which comes from it all is an added bonus!


It's possible to combine the two. I love it and I'm professional composer and apart from the odd occasion it has never "ended badly". Not everyone is competitive or exploitative! 

I just set my expectations realistically in terms of money. I choose to work with the directors and producers who are good people. Artists. But I don't do library music or any kind of earning through royalties which was not a route I wanted to take. I make it through commission fees and very occasionally some royalties.


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## BigMal (Apr 9, 2022)

There has been some good empathic advice on this thread that I hope will be helpful to you @tsk. There's also some utter bullshit you should smile to yourself as you file it under "insensitive crap that some random bloke on the internet thinks passes for wisdom". You are the best judge of which is which! 

I have no advice, but I do empathise, and want to pass on where I am on a journey that has some similarities to yours, in the hope it gives you some optimism. I'm a hobby musician, so know nothing about your industry, but having worked in a field that was my passion for 30 years, this year, I decided I needed a complete break and to go in an entirely different direction. I understand you're starting that journey next week, so I just wanted to let you know, that I couldn't be happier following my new path, and I hope you will soon come to feel the same about yours. I maintain a passing interest in my previous career, but the change has been transformative. I hope you feel the same in a few months, and get the benefit from some distance and perspective that nothing but time grants you. Best of luck.


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## pinki (Apr 9, 2022)

3DC said:


> My mom would tell you "You had your 5 minutes of crying now get up and do whatever you have to do to succeed".
> 
> I am puzzled by people who have good health, excellent theory knowledge, stellar portfolio but absolutely no clue what to do with these God given gifts. Its like having a 1kg gold bar and considering exchanging it with brass because you don't know how to sell it.
> 
> ...



And I have one for you:
"The wise man looks up the meaning of empathy in a dictionary"


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 9, 2022)

Roger Newton said:


> I don't make much doing the music writing thing because in a way, it's a bit of a numbers game. I have about 180 tracks registered at the PRS and make about $35K on average a year from them. That's small fry but when the weather is bad and it's raining and foggy sometimes for months, it's difficult to find something as interesting to do.


I’d hardly say you’re a hobbyist, that’s some serious coin.


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## pinki (Apr 9, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’d hardly say you’re a hobbyist, that’s some serious coin.


My thoughts exactly! I was thinking--er... does everyone make 35k a year doing music as a hobby


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## vancomposer (Apr 9, 2022)

BigMal said:


> There has been some good empathic advice on this thread that I hope will be helpful to you There's also some utter bullshit you should smile to yourself as you file it under "insensitive crap that some random bloke on the internet thinks passes for wisdom". You are the best judge of which is which!


Sorry if it somewhere got lost in translation for me (not a native speaker) or I just missed it but utter BS in this thread? This is one of the best reads I had in a while, love the virtual encouragement of the community (and yours!). 



Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’d hardly say you’re a hobbyist, that’s some serious coin.


I agree that is a full income for a lot of composers and musicians that I know and plenty of years I would have dreamed of such a number but had to life with way less. So Roger, thats impressive. 😊


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## chocobitz825 (Apr 9, 2022)

tsk said:


> Edit, to update:
> 
> After almost four months since I first posted, I have decided that on Monday I will begin looking for full time work outside of music, and I guess I'll have to notify my publishers that I am leaving music entirely. I can't lift my hand to write something without crushing bitterness weighing down on my head.
> 
> ...


I can't blame anyone for giving up on the business of music. Its exploitation of a craft that would otherwise be fun and emotionally sustaining. You've left the business of music behind. I hope this instead allows you to enjoy the craft of music with none of the excess baggage from the business.


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## bvaughn0402 (Apr 9, 2022)

While I want to succeed in music ... even to the point that I can live full-time off of music ... I also wonder, is that a blessing or not? There is a certain freedom that I have with not having to worry about always making money off music.

It is an odd conundrum. 

I have heard so many say that life is too short to not do what you love.

But I now wonder if just as legit is to do things you like to enable things that you love.


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## R10k (Apr 9, 2022)

bvaughn0402 said:


> While I want to succeed in music ... even to the point that I can live full-time off of music ... I also wonder, is that a blessing or not? There is a certain freedom that I have with not having to worry about always making money off music.
> 
> It is an odd conundrum.
> 
> ...


I have the skills to earn a living off photography but have never been down that road because I know it'd ruin the simple joy I get from taking photos. Either you know beforehand that it'll be a bad choice, or you dive in and give it a try. You can always stop what you're doing (this thread as an example), thankful you've gained experience trying it. I did the same trying to run a business. I spent quite a bit on it and learned along the way I didn't enjoy it.

I hope that makes sense.


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## R10k (Apr 9, 2022)

3DC said:


> IMHO empathy and endless love or care is usually needed for people with severe psychological problems like depression.
> People stuck in career dilemmas, money and business problems need a solid advice, new perspective, solutions to complex problems and sometimes even a "kick in a butt" as we say to move on in right direction.
> 
> As a disabled man from birth, empathy never helped me to move on or solve my problems and I am pretty sure it will not help OP. You can actually bet on it.
> ...



I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying, but empathy isn't a solution. It's a starting point.


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## pinki (Apr 9, 2022)

R10k said:


> I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying, but empathy isn't a solution. It's a starting point.


Perfectly stated.


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## BigMal (Apr 10, 2022)

vancomposer said:


> Sorry if it somewhere got lost in translation for me (not a native speaker) or I just missed it but utter BS in this thread? This is one of the best reads I had in a while, love the virtual encouragement of the community (and yours!).


Yes, I agree. I was referring to a particular post that, in my humble opinion, was utter BS and can be safely ignored. With diplomacy, I'll let you, and others, decide which is which. But again, in general, a great supportive thread, that shows the value of community, and hopefully offers some glimmer of solace to the OP, in the midst of a very difficult, but shared situation.


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## Nimrod7 (Apr 10, 2022)

I am really sorry of what you're going through, and I really hope to find happiness in your future endeavors.

I know how life draining this situation is.

It happened to me with photography in the early 2000s, to a point that I quit, and sold all the equipment I had, and never touched a camera for the next 8 years.

It's happening again now, not there yet, but if I don't act, I might be in the same situation.

I good book I can recommend (something wrong with Amazon Links, so I am adding a screenshot).
The second bullet point, is the meat.






I have to re-read it myself.


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## pinki (Apr 10, 2022)

3DC said:


> I was invited to check the dictionary for the word empathy which is typical emotional reaction.
> BTW if I had no empathy toward OP I would even care to reply to OP.
> 
> Empathy is emotional feeling and in career, money and business problems where absolute logic and action is needed it can be deadly wrong for people you want to help.


3DC I'm not sure what your point is? The Vangelis interview you posted is about the difficulties of the relationship between art and business, which is really interesting for sure.

But your first post was a bunch of self-help quotes along the lines of "man up".

That is why I mention the word empathy. Empathy involves trying to understand the other person's situation _from their point of view. _Not _your_ point of view but _their _point of view. It's a wonderful human quality and can offer incredible insight and understanding in to other's predicaments and situations. 
If you are a professional composer, as I'm presuming you are, then surely you have experienced these dark moments of being an artist on the frontline?


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## R10k (Apr 10, 2022)

3DC said:


> I was invited to check the dictionary for the word empathy which is typical emotional reaction.
> BTW if I had no empathy toward OP I would even care to reply to OP.
> 
> Empathy is emotional feeling and in career, money and business problems where absolute logic and action is needed it can be deadly wrong for people you want to help.
> ...



Not to insult your intelligence, but I've always enjoyed this video.

Obviously, I'm not trying to say the examples in this short vid are the ones you've used. Not at all. But, the video does explain why people here have led with sympathy.



PS: Soz for the derail.


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## BigMal (Apr 10, 2022)

R10k said:


> Not to insult your intelligence, but I've always enjoyed this video.
> 
> Obviously, I'm not trying to say the examples in this short vid are the ones you've used. Not at all. But, the video does explain why people here have led with sympathy.
> 
> ...



Wow, that is truly insightful, and what a great way to convey it. I hadn't seen that before - thank you.


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## MartinH. (Apr 10, 2022)

3DC said:


> IMHO empathy and endless love or care is usually needed for people with severe psychological problems like depression.


Right now, that's probably more than half of all musicians, composers, and artists. And OP said: "I can't continue this fight any longer without losing what's left of my mental health."
There is a place for motivational quotes and the pull yourself up by your bootstraps mentality, but I too think it's not here.


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## Roger Newton (Apr 10, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> It happened to me with photography in the early 2000s, to a point that I quit, and sold all the equipment I had, and never touched a camera for the next 8 years.


That's an old photography joke.

Today I made the most money I ever made in photography.

I sold all my equipment. 

Photography is one of the biggest races to the bottom out there these days. Asset stripping is rife and companies will sell images literally for next to nothing. Stock photography? Don't do it would my advice to anyone. It's akin to RF music sites. People need to study this stuff and generally stay away from it.


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## Roger Newton (Apr 10, 2022)

vancomposer said:


> I agree that is a full income for a lot of composers and musicians that I know and plenty of years I would have dreamed of such a number but had to life with way less. So Roger, thats impressive. 😊


I like your Avatar. It's one of the best I've seen.


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## Roger Newton (Apr 10, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I’d hardly say you’re a hobbyist, that’s some serious coin.


If I've said it once I've said it a thoudsand times. It's all about the DISTRIBUTION.

It's a hobby. I haven't had a proper job for years now. I'm retired. I retired when I was 58. It's a nice compliment Jeremy - especially to the distributors. But if I was doing this job professionally, I would want to be earning £100k per annum at least. Not sure if that's even possible these days in the production music game. Probably is but would need many hours work and a fantastic distribution network. I do about 100 hours music work a year. I play golf 15 hours a week. At least. I turned down 3 or 4 albums 10 years ago because I was playing in golf tournaments and writing music would have been too much of a distraction.

The OP has to find a way of incorporating and separating making money and enjoying the process that it takes to make money. As has been pointed out multiple times here, there are many ways of doing that.

My advice to the OP. Stop thinking about music like it's some mystical, etherial/religious experience. It's just like any other job, pastime or hobby. A lot of working people out there doing what musicians may think are mundane jobs, take their hobbies a lot more seriously than their jobs and simply do their day jobs to fund what they're really interested in. Apart from paying run of the mill bills of course.

From the immortal words of Al Pacino, music is as about as mysterious to me as a blocked toilet is to a fucking plumber.


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## R10k (Apr 10, 2022)

3DC said:


> Sorry for my English and I do mean well to all of you and OP. With that I am out of this thread.


While I think you have the balance wrong, I appreciate your thoughts.


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## pinki (Apr 10, 2022)

3DC said:


> A lost driver is driving his car recklessly in wrong way all over the highway seeking to find a proper life or business exit.
> 
> Sympathetic person would say: At least his not on drugs...
> Empathic person would say: I understand your driving, I've been there...♥️♥️♥️
> ...


You are comparing having an emotional crisis, or at least a total burn-out... with your daughter learning to drive a car??? 
Empathy is perhaps not your thing 
This is a thread about adult experiences and I find you equating it to teaching children a practical skill rather odd.
Anyhow "logical person" works for you and I respect that but...maybe that's not appropriate this time?


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## mat1 (Apr 15, 2022)

A few years ago I made a decision to try to cut all drama out of my work life. Now I only work on projects that I find easy, make good money and with publishers that appreciate what I do. It's just not worth working on things that give you anxiety. 

Hopefully your next job will let you enjoy music again!


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## szczaw (Apr 15, 2022)

Hats off to anyone who can consistently make music on demand. I couldn't.


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## Chris Schmidt (Apr 18, 2022)

I always used to think tapping out of composing with the goal of doing it for a living was a soul-crushing idea.

Came to realize that I was wrong, and it was the job itself that was soul-crushing. I gave up a lot of years of my life to sit in front of a screen, whether it was "working out" for me at the time or not. I think a lot of people forget that this what composing always was, it's just that it used to be in front of paper instead.

Now that I'm in my 30s, one thing I can tell you is that I don't think to myself "Gee, I wish I spent more time composing" anymore than I wish I spent more time watching TV. To be perfectly honest, I don't even remember most of the time I spent composing my _most recent_ works. I kind of regret not pursuing playing in bands further because although I'd probably have actually made less money with bands than I have with composing, I'd sure as hell have a lot more fun memories involving music to look back on.

In truth: It really is more liberating to do it for the art and at your own pace. Now, I come out with a single digit number of tracks per year, but because I can spend so much more time on them, only deal with it when "inspiration strikes" and can hire more live players, the quality is much, much higher.

Some of my stuff on YouTube now has about 100k plays with 99% upvotes, but I never worked on a game that sold anywhere near 100k copies. I make music because I want people to hear it, and when you see a lot of people enjoying what you do, you kinda stop caring about the money.

I will also say, I find it much more fulfilling when people are enjoying your music totally on its own merit, for its own sake, rather than because they associate it with some other corporate, consumer product they discovered it through. I think there is a discussion to be had about the phenomena of music riding the coattails of films, tv and games success. It increasingly feels like unless your music was in one of these things, no one wants to give it the time of day. Like, I often wonder if fans of something like Skyrim (first big-name game that came to mind) really love Soule's score, or just _Skyrim_. I might actually make a thread about this.

I don't think anyone is truly in any creative business for the money. They're in it because modern society is filled to the brim with all kinds of meaningless work that people only do because of the growing mountain of bills to pay just to survive and it's all based around consumption — but we have a desire to create that's going unmet. So if you're going to have to work 40 hours a week until you're dead, most want it to be something that feels like it has a real purpose and that they enjoy doing it.

That's why it's so much salt in the wound to find out music has increasingly been turned into the same kind of factory or office job people desperately wish to escape.

TL;DR: "I know that feel"


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## Roger Newton (Apr 18, 2022)

Chris Schmidt said:


> Came to realize that I was wrong, and it was the job itself that was soul-crushing.
> 
> Now that I'm in my 30s, one thing I can tell you is that I don't think to myself "Gee, I wish I spent more time composing" anymore than I wish I spent more time watching TV.


I tell people this about preferring to play golf than writing music and they generally think I'm being facetious and joking. Not at all. Perfectly truthful. I wouldn't say anything I've done could be particularly described as soul crushing, but writing music for a living must be borderline hellish. I couldn't even contemplate it.

Another issue is quite a few people probably haven't had very highly paid jobs and therefore don't have some kind of level they can compare to and just think music is some kind of mystical thing they can impress their friends with. You'd be amazed how much money people think you make when you tell them you've written media music. They suddenly go all Hollywood and are unable to rationalise their imaginations. This can include professional people btw like doctors and dentists etc. It's weird.


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## Henu (Apr 18, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> I good book I can recommend (something wrong with Amazon Links, so I am adding a screenshot).


I got interested on the book, read the first chapter for free and ended up buying a digital version from Google Play Books. Having been reading it throughout the weekend on a trip, it seems like a really good purchase!

On my mastering side-profession, weeding out the bad customers is exactly what I should do myself, because they take an _excessive amount of time and energy_ and I don't even need that (small) money nor the CV the bring to me. I've already subconsciously started to do that, but this book really seems to confirm that they are not good for the business!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 19, 2022)

Chris Schmidt said:


> I kind of regret not pursuing playing in bands further because although I'd probably have actually made less money with bands than I have with composing, I'd sure as hell have a lot more fun memories involving music to look back on.


I've got to ask....why don't you still play in bands? I'm in my early 50's and still playing in bands every single weekend, even with a mini tour here and there. I still have a full-time career, but the band thing lets me fulfil my rock star desires....and provides a decent second income. So I say, why not?


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## Chris Schmidt (Apr 26, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I've got to ask....why don't you still play in bands? I'm in my early 50's and still playing in bands every single weekend, even with a mini tour here and there. I still have a full-time career, but the band thing lets me fulfil my rock star desires....and provides a decent second income. So I say, why not?


Simply put: 

I don't think the time investment and commitment would be worth it at this point.


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## tabulius (Apr 26, 2022)

I wish the thread starter all the best and I hope you'll get a job you'll enjoy. And with steady income you might learn to enjoy making the music just for fun and for yourself. Or find tons of different new activities that you love.

I'm actually in the same boat at the moment and I've decided to put my music business on hold and go study a new profession during this year. Things have been tough many years now and I don't have the energy or the motivation to do the work to travel, tend to events, promote, compose endless demos and hope for the best. When I was in my 20s-30s (I'm 39 and soon 40 at the moment) I had all the time in the world and an unwavering belief that music is my calling and I will create the success and riches I dreamed of. Well I'm happy that I had success and I lived doing music for 12-15 years. In some years I had plenty of income and I was able to travel and enjoy my life - just for composing music! I did few commercials, short films, game music, trailer music and some theater music as well. But those big Hollywood trailers really enabled me to do this full time.

But in these recent years game music gigs started to decline, trailer placements became a rarity and I found myself composing long days on weekends without little or no pay. I had only a hope that maybe this work will give me money in the long run, but doing this a long time - I found myself exhausted and burned out. I didn't have fun anymore. The financial reasons is the most important thing why I want to make a switch this year, but there are other music business reasons as well. I hope when I get a new job and get a steady monthly pay I can live a more peaceful life without stressing what happens next week or month. And hopefully I will enjoy making music on the side. I still hope to do some music work time to time.

The things I don't miss as a composer:

1) Living and working like I'm playing a lottery and hoping the next coupon will grant me a win.
2) Tending events and promoting myself, and pretending I'm a sociable extrovert who knows what I'm doing.
3) Getting phone calls of an awesome film in the works - unfortunately "it's a very small budget and we don't have the money for a composer". And giving an undervalued offer (a fee that is smaller that I would get in a low-pay cleaning job) and get that offer declined.
4) Lack of communication in some projects. The project should have started and they don't answer the emails in four weeks. A simple "we are busy, we'll get back to you next week" would do just fine.
5) Breaking verbal agreements. "You'll get the job when the project starts!" Project starts and there is a different composer.
6) "Are you in TEOSTO (royalty collecting organization)"? "We don't want to fill any forms, it is a hassle".
7) Getting your DUNE trailer cue turned down by Hans Zimmer and he went and hired a new trailer composer to make a new track.
8) Composing a ridiculously epic track and the comments are: "can you make it bigger?"
9) My track is licensed to a trailer. I get the money after A YEAR.
10) To hear people tell me that getting my name in the credits or Youtube description is the most incredible blessing of all time.

I still have a one game music job to make, and I'm waiting for one trailer fee. Although I'm sad to turn this page, I'm too burned out of all of this and I'm excited as well to do something completely different!


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## Markrs (Apr 26, 2022)

tabulius said:


> Although I'm sad to turn this page, I'm too burned out of all of this and I'm excited as well to do something completely different!


It is always difficult to read how hard this industry is and how often unappreciated the rule of the composer is on a project. Certainly as a hobbyist, it reminds you to only see this as a side gig at most.

I think the important thing is that you recognised this isn’t working for you any more, that you are burned out and need to make a change. It is important to put both your mental and financial health first.

The key is that life is full of possibilities, of course, it can be scary and require learning new skills, but it can also be exciting and liberating to take that step forward.


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## FinGael (Apr 26, 2022)

tabulius said:


> I wish the thread starter all the best and I hope you'll get a job you'll enjoy. And with steady income you might learn to enjoy making the music just for fun and for yourself. Or find tons of different new activities that you love.
> 
> I'm actually in the same boat at the moment and I've decided to put my music business on hold and go study a new profession during this year. Things have been tough many years now and I don't have the energy or the motivation to do the work to travel, tend to events, promote, compose endless demos and hope for the best. When I was in my 20s-30s (I'm 39 and soon 40 at the moment) I had all the time in the world and an unwavering belief that music is my calling and I will create the success and riches I dreamed of. Well I'm happy that I had success and I lived doing music for 12-15 years. In some years I had plenty of income and I was able to travel and enjoy my life - just for composing music! I did few commercials, short films, game music, trailer music and some theater music as well. But those big Hollywood trailers really enabled me to do this full time.
> 
> ...


All the best. "Life will find its way".


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## MartinH. (Apr 27, 2022)

tabulius said:


> I'm actually in the same boat at the moment and I've decided to put my music business on hold and go study a new profession during this year.


Have you decided yet what your next career will be? 
I wish you all the best for that transition! Definitely can understand your reasons for wanting to switch jobs.


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## tabulius (Apr 27, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Have you decided yet what your next career will be?
> I wish you all the best for that transition! Definitely can understand your reasons for wanting to switch jobs.


I have few options but I want to learn a job that can be done with my hands, building, or crafting style work where the work is simple and pay is relatively good. One of the options is an air conditioning mechanic. And after the workday, I can go on with my life - spend time with my kids or get some new hobbies. That sounds so good to me at the moment. And maybe I have some time for trailer composition or game music gigs from time to time. I would guess I can take these composing gigs with a more relaxed mind where there is no financial stress involved.


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## Markrs (Apr 27, 2022)

tabulius said:


> I have few options but I want to learn a job that can be done with my hands, building, or crafting style work where the work is simple and pay is relatively good. One of the options is an air conditioning mechanic. And after the workday, I can go on with my life - spend time with my kids or get some new hobbies. That sounds so good to me at the moment. And maybe I have some time for trailer composition or game music gigs from time to time. I would guess I can take these composing gigs with a more relaxed mind where there is no financial stress involved.


I think that is a good plan to have. Whilst I love my career in UX as it is about helping, being creative and hopefully making things better, I do miss more physical jobs, that might physically tire you out a bit but leaves more mental capacity in the evenings.


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## Loïc D (Apr 27, 2022)

tabulius said:


> I would guess I can take these composing gigs with a more relaxed mind where there is no financial stress involved.


This !
I wish you good luck with your new life.


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## Grizzlymv (Apr 27, 2022)

Well, I'm not in the same situation, actually the opposite, but I can totally relate to that state of mind. Been working in IT for years, but still around in the business (Game devs, VFX companies, working closely with the music departments) and for a while, worked at moving into music career instead of IT. At some point, it went serious enough, started a music company with a friend, got a few gigs through agencies, but then I realized that the fun wasn't there anymore. I was just burned out from not the gigs, but all that surround those. The politics, the talking, getting paid, working for nothing, being told you were their top choice, but someone else had the final word and decided to go with someone else, I mean, you know it. I already had a pretty good idea of what I was getting into because of my close relationship with my music artists friends I was working with on a daily basis. But what I experienced was even a step further than I imaginated. Had to take a break for a good full year in which I didn't touch the keyboard once. I was sitting in front of it....and my whole body was telling me to go away. At some point, you have to listen to your body. Maybe I wasn't meant to be working in that business, but so what? 

This is when I refocus the whole thing. My career, my composing time, my family time, and made sine choices that helped balance things for me. I now work my day time work which has a very pay and allow me to not only enjoy life, but also gear up my studio. It allowed me to have much more quality time with my kids and family. And then, when I get in the studio nowadays, it's for pure fun again. I can enjoy composing whatever I have in my mind and be creative about it without the fear of displeasing mr. or ms. X. Go where my mind bring me rather than following instructions to be like this guy, or more like that cue, etc, etc. I'm glad I didn't sell my gears as I was very tempted to do back then. 

I guess that's where the key is. Do what matter to you. If you like writing music, don't let contract, money, restrictions etc prevent you to do so. Doesn't matter if you write it for fun, seriously, to feel the moment, etc. Put the money aside for a moment, maybe find something that pay the bills, and when you feel for it, sit down, write down stuff to your liking, enjoy it, enjoy life, and whatever you end up doing, if you're happy about it, that's what matter. If other like it as well, that become a bonus. There will be people who will dislike it as well, there will always be no matter what you do. Art is subjective. I rarely share my stuff because I don't want to handle this. If I'm happy about what I did, that's the best pay I can have for it. 

In the end, do what makes you feel good about it. forget the rest. If writing music used to be it, then refocus and make sure you bring back the fun in the process. It can come back, it will come back, if you allow it to come back.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 27, 2022)

tabulius said:


> One of the options is an air conditioning mechanic.


Excellent choice! I have been an HVAC mechanic and power engineer (boiler operator) for many years. I’m sure there are plenty of opportunities in Finland. It would give you a steady career that would allow you to pursue music on your own terms.


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## rgames (Apr 27, 2022)

tabulius said:


> One of the options is an air conditioning mechanic.


I also agree that learning a trade like that is an excellent choice.

Trades are the backbone of a functioning society. When you get up in the morning, keep track of whose work is really enabling your daily life. It's not the lawyer or the politician or the entertainer. It's the plumber, the electrician, the HVAC technician, the auto mechanic, etc.

rgames

(OT but this is one thing the US screws up - we don't emphasize trades enough, certainly not in relation to how much we emphasize going to college).


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