# Do I need a Headphone Amp?



## Ganvai (Apr 2, 2015)

Hey guys,

I have a question.

I am planing to get new Headphones. After testing some of them I have decided to go with the AKG K712 Pro. I like AKG, the sound seems to be honest and I like the fact that it's very light weighted.

But when I have read some tests in some pro audio magazines they have written they would use it with a special headphone amp. I never used a seperate headphone amp. The Steinberg MR816X Interface had build ins and when I switched to my RME AIO i just pluged my old ones in and voilá, it was working too.

But still this question keeps bothering me. Do I need a headphone amp? Is the RME AIO headphone output enough? Is a headphone amp a game changer?

Thanks for your help.

Best regards,
Jan


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## tokatila (Apr 2, 2015)

Probably not, if the 712 pro version has same impedance vs frequency curve as 712. 

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=7&graphID[]=4163&scale=30

Compare this e.g. to Sennheisers HD650, where too high of an output impedance gives a noticable bass boost. 

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=7&graphID[]=853&scale=30

I'm not a big fan of audible differences between amps (some are), but when I researched this I understood that with certain Headphones like HD650 you need to have low enough headphone amplifire output impedance (max 1/8 was some recommendation) compared to the headphone impedance. Otherwise you get a_ measurable _difference...


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## Ganvai (Apr 2, 2015)

Ahhhhhh. Thank you very much tokatila. Never knew about that. 

Very helpful!


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## Kaufmanmoon (Apr 2, 2015)

Interesting thread.
I've own a Apogee duet and the Headphone output impedance is 30ohm.

Hd650 are 300ohm. I tried some friends HD650's yesterday through the Apogee and the level was loud enough.

Could you explain to me in (I'm not the brightest tool in the box) fashion if these should work ok or will that impedance cause this bass boost you speak of?

I've also been looking into Sonarworks calibration system technology for headphones and speakers

http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/

Sorry to hijack the thread but hopefully this will assist Ganvai also.

Any help appreciated.


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## tokatila (Apr 2, 2015)

Kaufmanmoon @ Thu Apr 02 said:


> Interesting thread.
> I've own a Apogee duet and the Headphone output impedance is 30ohm.
> 
> Hd650 are 300ohm. I tried some friends HD650's yesterday through the Apogee and the level was loud enough.
> ...



Here is some reading for you. But no, it shouldn't cause bass boost (obeying the 1/8 th rule, 8 x 30 ohm < 300 ohm)

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html


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## Kaufmanmoon (Apr 2, 2015)

Many thanks, will get reading


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## Ganvai (Apr 2, 2015)

@Kaufmanmoon: No problem. Really appreciated as I got also a very good read.

@tokatila: Thanks man.

So, after reading this I checked the data and what I got was a bit of a setback.

The RME HDSPe AIO has an Impedance of 30 Ohm at the headphone output. As the AKG K712 Pro has 62, this would say I should have to get an amp.

BUT: the sheed from headroom.com said the AKG 712 nearly don't react to a higher impedance so this should be okay?

I am a bit confused. To many infos for my humble mind.

Thanks for helping,
Jan


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## ghostnote (Apr 2, 2015)

I've had no problem driving the K712 with my UR22, but I'm listening at very low lvls.

The main point about getting a headamp is the improvement in sound quality. The K712 is a great headphone but will probably sound bit grainy and muddy right out of your interface.

My advise: Get the G109 from Lake People. It's known for being able to drive almost every headphone out there, doesn't matter if the impedance is high or low. The price/performance ratio is great and the support is terrific. Can't recommend it enough.


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## Ganvai (Apr 2, 2015)

Hey Michael,

already heared a lot about the Lake People amps. Sounds like a good buy.

Thanks man!


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## tokatila (Apr 2, 2015)

I wrote like a novel to answer you and when I pushed preview it vanished.

So in a nutshell; don't spend you money on the expensive amp. *If you have the money put it to the headphones. There's where the sound quality truly lies. *

Lake People amp is most likely a state of art machinery, but you don't need it.

Your interface with probably be completely fine with K712 and you are worring about irrelevant stuff. While there is an impedance mismatch, K712 don't seem to be sensitive to that and your interface is high-quality enough to drive the headphones otherwise (power, distortion, frequency response-wise).

If you are not convinced you don't most likely need an amp, the famous "snake-oil" effect look from www.schiit.com , much more affordable. I have one with my HD650 and only with them since they require a lot of power with highly dynamic music.


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## Ganvai (Apr 2, 2015)

Oh no, so sorry for you man.

But I also like the nutshell version. THANK YOU! :D


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## tokatila (Apr 2, 2015)

Ganvai @ Thu Apr 02 said:


> Oh no, so sorry for you man.
> 
> But I also like the nutshell version. THANK YOU! :D



No problem, and if you decide to buy more expensive headphones, do yourself a favor and check this!

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/ ... slide=id.p

And try Focal Spirit Professionals for a possible hidden gem...


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## Ganvai (Apr 2, 2015)

Oh wow. You are a great source for headphone informations. :D

Thank you.


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## Kaufmanmoon (Apr 3, 2015)

tokatila, I notice you say you have HD650's Did you try the HD600's out around the same time to compare?


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## tokatila (Apr 3, 2015)

Kaufmanmoon @ Fri Apr 03 said:


> tokatila, I notice you say you have HD650's Did you try the HD600's out around the same time to compare?



Yeah I did, I ABd them and found both to be excellent and comfortable headphones. 650 is not a step up to me in anyway, but the sound is a little different (not night a day different, like a different flavor). 600s sounded me a little bit forward (which probably means more energy in low-treble area). I ended up with 650s only because I bought them for extended music listening sessions. I have found that little recessed treble doesn't cause that much ear fatigue...

Always remember that your ear configuration might differ...


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## Kaufmanmoon (Apr 3, 2015)

Fantastic, thank you. That really helps.

Cheers


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