# Spitfire Westworld Competition SPINOFF - Composition Discussion, Advice and Examples



## Mike Greene (May 1, 2020)

The Spitfire Westworld Competition thread started off as a debate on the ethics and validity of such a competition. Totally valid, and there's some good stuff in there, especially some must-read posts by Charlie Clouser. (Oh, and I guess Hans knows a thing or too as well.  )

After a few pages of that, though, people started talking about how to handle the actual composition, starting with advice and opinions, then some people even posted examples for critique.

This is really great stuff, because it's rare to have an opportunity like this to discuss, collectively, how to score a specific scene. But ... the discussion gets a bit lost in the original thread, buried amongst all the other posts, so I've created this new thread and copied those posts here. This way, people interested in the composition discussion can more easliy see them. (To maintain context in the original thread, the posts are still there as well.) Let me know if I missed any. Scanning 16 pages of posts turned into a blur at some point. 

You can still download the music-free video here.


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## NoamL (May 4, 2020)

Also I went back to the Bleeding Fingers competition and found the winning track.

Remember, they gave us all these stems:



I remember my entry wasn't very creative. I did some things like chopping the singer's audio to make a 5/4 rhythm but other than that it wasn't anything that would impress someone who had to listen to a thousand contest entries... it was just an orchestra track.

Meanwhile the winner made this:



my favorite entry was this one. Absolute mad fun:



I think the winner of this competition will be someone who does something that #1 is creative and unexpected, #2 has flawless production, #3 does something cool or impressive in the first 30 seconds. It may not even be the best "score." Maybe a _little_ bit of showing off is in order. But I wouldn't bother at all with, like, a traditional orchestral score. You're gonna get lost in the 1000 entries and the first impression will be "lack of creativity, same as everyone else."


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## josephwmorgan (May 4, 2020)

I've hesitated to post this because it feels like a great idea BUT I'm curious if it would even be allowed. SO if this IS allowed and someone steals the idea and wins, this post will serve as my "aw man that was my idea and they did it better!" and if it isn't allowed then I'm glad I asked!

It feels like the most inventive/Westworld approach to this would be to do a really cool interpretation of a pre-existing song. Ramin has so many great covers as part of the score of the show, and especially with the "switching genres" line it almost feels like this scene is begging for an original take on a classic song. While this would open the door to a lot of really cool/creative ideas, it also seems like an absolute NIGHTMARE for HBO as far licensing/rights would go. The text of the rules state "create an original musical score" so I'm just wondering if that leaves room for an original take on a cover to be considered score, or if it should just be melodies/music that have never existed. Just trying to think outside the box but maybe I'm TOO outside the box 😂looking forward to participating either way!

Anyways, sound off all ye who hate me for even having such a TERRIBLE idea! obviously you're the superior beings


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## pawelmorytko (May 4, 2020)

I went and watched the batmobile chase from Dark Knight for some inspiration and realised there’s hardly any music. That then made me think, maybe it’s best not to have a constant wash of action music throughout the whole clip...


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## Michael Stibor (May 4, 2020)

pawelmorytko said:


> I went and watched the batmobile chase from Dark Knight for some inspiration and realised there’s hardly any music. That then made me think, maybe it’s best not to have a constant wash of action music throughout the whole clip...



Well there’s music throughout in the original, but I think it’s certainly legitimate to NOT have music throughout. Really depends on your piece I guess.


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## Consona (May 4, 2020)

NoamL said:


> You might be approaching this with the wrong attitude. Scoring is not an opportunity for the composer to show off their chops. It's an opportunity to make a movie better.


Having chops gives composer an opportunity to make a movie better. Unless you aim for some lowest common denominator or something. And with the term "better" we are, of course, cruising into the waters of subjectivity and whatnot.



But I really mean it, I have tons of fun. I'm 1 minute in, not even one semblance of a musical idea was required, and it sounds cool and trendy as f**k. Am I not allowed to say this? It's exactly what it is. My musical knowledge hasn't grown even the slightest, but my ASIO is peaking already because my PC can't handle so many effects




and I've rediscovered I can't mix even a little bit like Alan Meyerson.
I think that's enough for me. As I was adviced, don't make your demo out of the stuff you actually don't want to do in the future, because that's what will most probably happen.







NoamL said:


> Also I went back to the Bleeding Fingers competition and found the winning track.
> 
> Remember, they gave us all these stems:
> 
> ...



Yea, I agree. I can't participate with any prospects of getting any attention. My first instinct after putting that video into the DAW was to load up a piano to bring some interesting ideas in, then I realized what the f**k am I doing? This is not supposed to be some Goldsmith score. Which is exactly what I'm gonna do, score it like that Goldsmith wannabe I'm, as best as I can, for my own fun and musical growth.



pawelmorytko said:


> I went and watched the batmobile chase from Dark Knight for some inspiration and realised there’s hardly any music. That then made me think, maybe it’s best not to have a constant wash of action music throughout the whole clip...



The first thing that popped in my mind as an example of what to do was not this scene, but the tumbler chase scene from Batman Begins:



But it's too block-bustery for such a show. And it actually has a hummable melody, which is a no-no.


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## Michael Stibor (May 4, 2020)

josephwmorgan said:


> I've hesitated to post this because it feels like a great idea BUT I'm curious if it would even be allowed. SO if this IS allowed and someone steals the idea and wins, this post will serve as my "aw man that was my idea and they did it better!" and if it isn't allowed then I'm glad I asked!
> 
> It feels like the most inventive/Westworld approach to this would be to do a really cool interpretation of a pre-existing song. Ramin has so many great covers as part of the score of the show, and especially with the "switching genres" line it almost feels like this scene is begging for an original take on a classic song. While this would open the door to a lot of really cool/creative ideas, it also seems like an absolute NIGHTMARE for HBO as far licensing/rights would go. The text of the rules state "create an original musical score" so I'm just wondering if that leaves room for an original take on a cover to be considered score, or if it should just be melodies/music that have never existed. Just trying to think outside the box but maybe I'm TOO outside the box 😂looking forward to participating either way!
> 
> Anyways, sound off all ye who hate me for even having such a TERRIBLE idea! obviously you're the superior beings


I was wondering the same thing, but less for a copyrighted piece, and more for a classical piece. I read that they initially wanted Blue Danube for the “genre” section (I did some research lol) so that’s definitely the angle they had in mind. Not sure if I was disqualified for using William Tell or whatever. 🤔


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## Allen Constantine (May 4, 2020)

josephwmorgan said:


> I've hesitated to post this because it feels like a great idea BUT I'm curious if it would even be allowed. SO if this IS allowed and someone steals the idea and wins, this post will serve as my "aw man that was my idea and they did it better!" and if it isn't allowed then I'm glad I asked!
> 
> It feels like the most inventive/Westworld approach to this would be to do a really cool interpretation of a pre-existing song. Ramin has so many great covers as part of the score of the show, and especially with the "switching genres" line it almost feels like this scene is begging for an original take on a classic song. While this would open the door to a lot of really cool/creative ideas, it also seems like an absolute NIGHTMARE for HBO as far licensing/rights would go. The text of the rules state "create an original musical score" so I'm just wondering if that leaves room for an original take on a cover to be considered score, or if it should just be melodies/music that have never existed. Just trying to think outside the box but maybe I'm TOO outside the box 😂looking forward to participating either way!
> 
> Anyways, sound off all ye who hate me for even having such a TERRIBLE idea! obviously you're the superior beings




Good point! In 99% of the cases, they'll choose anything that comes to being a really CRAZY approach on thematic.

So covers will do well as long they are put into the most craziest way you could think of.

After all, they are mostly, as @Nico said, "marketing their product, giving away some money against Covid-19, promoting the release of the Westworld Season 3 Soundtrack".

Basically, as long there are tons of ideas already for Season 4, it's crazy good.

"Season 4" might be right around the corner


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## visiblenoise (May 4, 2020)

Does this car chase seem really slow to anyone? As in, the cars are going 40mph or something. Either it isn't actually slow and I'm just not used to watching car chases without a pumping soundtrack, or there's some context I'm missing from not having watched this show?

Not sure what to do with this...maybe I'll try a lot of tuba.


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## Nico (May 4, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> Does this car chase seem really slow to anyone? As in, the cars are going 40mph or something. Either it isn't actually slow and I'm just not used to watching car chases without a pumping soundtrack, or there's some context I'm missing from not having watched this show?
> 
> Not sure what to do with this...maybe I'll try a lot of tuba.



yes slightly, I think this is due to the silent electric cars.
But still not as slow as this car chase (maybe I will just copy music from this clip :D)


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## Michael Stibor (May 4, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> Does this car chase seem really slow to anyone? As in, the cars are going 40mph or something. Either it isn't actually slow and I'm just not used to watching car chases without a pumping soundtrack, or there's some context I'm missing from not having watched this show?
> 
> Not sure what to do with this...maybe I'll try a lot of tuba.


I thought that too. I remember watching one of those Hollywood composer round tables where Alan Silvesti mentioned being asked to compose something to make it seem like the dog was running faster, lol. It was a theoretical example, but thats part of the job I guess.


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## Dan Drebing (May 4, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> Does this car chase seem really slow to anyone? As in, the cars are going 40mph or something. Either it isn't actually slow and I'm just not used to watching car chases without a pumping soundtrack, or there's some context I'm missing from not having watched this show?


Yes, I think the dinky engine sounds don't help. But yeah the motion just isn't really, there especially without the score.


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## shomynik (May 4, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> Does this car chase seem really slow to anyone? As in, the cars are going 40mph or something. Either it isn't actually slow and I'm just not used to watching car chases without a pumping soundtrack, or there's some context I'm missing from not having watched this show?
> 
> Not sure what to do with this...maybe I'll try a lot of tuba.



I thought the same for Nolan's batmobile and bat-bike(?)


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## dzilizzi (May 5, 2020)

Going by last time's winner, I don't think it necessarily has to even match the scene they are trying to convey. So if you decide it should be a comedy, go for it. Be unusual. Have fun.


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## charlieclouser (May 5, 2020)

TravB said:


> Are we to simply guess and just hope we've interpreted the scene with the same intent as the Director?



Yes. Exactly.

That's part of the process, part of what makes a director and a composer feel like "kindred souls" who share a similar outlook and can have a productive creative relationship. When they feel like you get it without being explicitly instructed what to do. Best-case scenario is when they can describe how they want the score to relate to the whole arc of the story, slowly revealing more and more of the central theme while nodding to the various characters and plot lines, and refer to other music in terms of the emotions they evoke. Worst-case scenario is when they don't have the abstract verbal skills to describe what they need much beyond, "I'll know it when I hear it."

I rarely have hours-long conversations about how to approach a scene, and usually there's not even all that much back-and-forth over the course of days and multiple revisions etc. That's when it starts to feel like pulling teeth, like maybe this composer just doesn't get it, like maybe we got the wrong guy. 

An example of a one-minute conversation that worked: A sentimental scene, tender emotions, might even be a final goodbye before one character dies or goes away forever, can't tell because I haven't seen the whole film yet. No idea what's going on, it's just an audition cue. Temp score is in place and sounds lovey-dovey, but my first impression that I blurted out to the director was, "This temp makes it seem like these two are in love, but that feels wrong. Like it needs tender emotion but more like they're brother and sister saying goodbye for the last time or something, not like they're going to get married or whatever." Director's response: "Exactly. See what you can come up with." Done. Took less than a minute to talk that one out.

An example of a conversation that lasted a week and didn't work: Thriller / tension film, people double-crossing each other, lying, sneaking around, the whole works. But subdued and tense, not epic war-drum beat-downs, and with a high-tech sheen because they're hacking computers, swiping fake ID badges to gain entry to restricted facilities, etc. So I take a swing at it - nope, it's "too energetic and percussive and pointy somehow". Okay, take another swing. Nope, this one "still feels too active or bright or something". Okay, damn... third swing. Now the director's running out of words to describe how much he doesn't like what I'm laying down, it's just "Still not the right vibe, man, I dunno...". 

In desperation, sitting with the director in the edit suite, I say, "Sounds like what you mean is something like this:" and I start singing and mouth-beat-boxing along to picture, basically imitating James Newton-Howard's amazing score to "Michael Clayton" - those tension cues as he's driving upstate. I say, "You know, kind of a Michael Clayton vibe?" And the director goes, "Exactly! That's what we had in the temp!".

*But I had never heard that temp*. Due to them previously hiring a composer who I was supposed to be replacing, the only temp I had ever heard was that composer's failed attempt - and nobody ever remembered to play me their original temp, the one that the network had loved, the one that helped the pilot get a series order! All I had heard was the "wrong" music from the guy they wanted to fire, and I was operating under the assumption that this was as close to "right" as they had ever gotten, when in fact it was even further away from "right" than their original temp had been! When the post supervisor found out that the editor and show runner never went all the way back to the original temp (that everyone had loved) she was beside herself - to her this was a total failure of production logistics! Aka: how not to do it. And nobody thought to mention "Michael Clayton" to me, or had the communication skills to describe the desired result as "muted, subdued, and subtle, but still tense and propelling the scene forward." - which is how I described what I was about to start singing in the edit suite, that made the director say, "Yeah, that's what it needs. What would that sound like?" and so I started beat-boxing the Michael Clayton cues.

When I finally got to "So... like a Michael Clayton vibe?" I was like, "That's all you needed to say. Just say the words Michael Clayton and I know exactly what you mean." (Not that I could actually pull it off, but at least I'd have known what they meant.) In the end, it was such a struggle to get to that point that I was like, "Man, it shouldn't take us four tries to get it right, maybe I'm not your guy." And as it turned out I was not their guy - maybe not entirely because I had the wrong music, but also partially because they had a hard time knowing / deciding / explaining what they wanted, and we didn't have enough in common that I was able to read their minds well enough.

So, being able to read the minds of the directors / producers / writers / actors and "get the vibe" even if you don't know the entire arc of the story and where a given scene fits into that arc, is going to be a part of the skill set. You won't always, or even often, be operating off your own partially-informed guesses - but it will happen eventually. Maybe it will be in season five of a series, as it's winding down, show runners are being swapped in and out, and people are looking exhausted and operating on auto-pilot - and maybe it will be on a scene that nobody's really paying all that much attention to because they have bigger fires to extinguish. But when you get it right with little to no direction, and the show runner says, "Wow, you killed it on that scene. Really made it work better and helped it feel as important as it should have been. Sorry we kind of glossed over that one in the spotting session, good job though." - that's when good guessing becomes a valuable skill.


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## Michael Stibor (May 5, 2020)

Oh man, I forgot about that Michael Clayton score! It’s all I listened to for about four months after it came out. I always marvelled at how “neutral” it was (don’t know how else to say it) and yet impactful.


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## charlieclouser (May 5, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Oh man, I forgot about that Michael Clayton score! It’s all I listened to for about four months after it came out. I always marvelled at how “neutral” it was (don’t know how else to say it) and yet impactful.



It's so good. That big swell as Tom Wilkinson is dazed and wandering in Time Square, and then he sees the uNorth video playing and figures out what he's going to do, and then the music swells and builds, but somehow just stays on a single chord with no apparent "note-on events" but still gets bigger and bigger, only to stop exactly on the cut to the Keyserson's farm, but with just a tiny bit of reverb ringing out over the cut - perfect. And those tension cues with the underwater filtered drums.... Damn that JNH!

I've watched that damn movie so many times I could probably do the ADR for every character from memory. My wife is like, "Ugh. Michael Clayton? AGAIN?!?!" 

Another similar movie, with a similarly minimal approach to the score is Syriania - also starring Clooney, but with a score by Alexandre Desplat. So simple, so good. The build-up to the terrorist boat explosion is similar to the Times Square scene in Clayton, and the way the sound fades out, being gradually replaced by a super-gentle score swell, only to cut to a blank white screen on the explosion, is so good - and they ripped it off with an accuracy of 90% on the finale of Homeland. Couldn't help themselves I guess. Can't say I blame 'em.


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## josephspirits (May 5, 2020)

I'm really surprised there still isn't any more talk about the challenge at the heart of the scene. *SPOILERS FOR WEST WORLD:* 
In that part of the episode Caleb is tripping on a drug called Genre that causes him to experience the world through a series of different genres. So scoring this as a typical sci-fi action or chase scene may be missing the point. At least I'm guessing that's why they chose this scene specifically.


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## Michael Stibor (May 5, 2020)

josephspirits said:


> I'm really surprised there still isn't any more talk about the challenge at the heart of the scene. *SPOILERS FOR WEST WORLD:*
> In that part of the episode Caleb is tripping on a drug called Genre that causes him to experience the world through a series of different genres. So scoring this as a typical sci-fi action or chase scene may be missing the point. At least I'm guessing that's why they chose this scene specifically.


I’m surprised too. I’ve watched a few submissions and so far I haven’t seen any that acknowledge the “genre” part of it. Most have seemed like one long action clip (albeit very well done).

I’d never seen the show before but it was clear to me that the Valkyries part was important, and so I did some research to find out what the heck was going on. And like, not a lot of research, just a couple articles, and a few YouTube recap videos to understand the context a little more. I’m surprised this is lost on so many people, as well as those mentioning the lack of “direction” to go along with the clip.

In any other profession when you’re applying for a job, it’s important to do some background research. Research into the company, into the position, etc. So why is this any different? And I’m not trying to stand on my soapbox here. Like I said, I really did the bare minimum, but it was enough that I don’t need “direction” or scoring notes to get it done.


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## NoamL (May 5, 2020)

josephspirits said:


> I'm really surprised there still isn't any more talk about the challenge at the heart of the scene. *SPOILERS FOR WEST WORLD:*
> In that part of the episode Caleb is tripping on a drug called Genre that causes him to experience the world through a series of different genres. So scoring this as a typical sci-fi action or chase scene may be missing the point. At least I'm guessing that's why they chose this scene specifically.



Yes!

There was someone here (was it @charlieclouser ?) who said "Score the fear of the rider, not the galloping of the horse."

Aaron Paul's character is the focus of this scene. I think they were going for a "grandeur of destruction" thing where he is experiencing the action through a drug-induced filter that makes it more cinematic. That's where the Ride Of The Valkyries fits in?

Checked out some early entries over lunch.... spotting this scene properly is going to be very important if you want to be competitive. There are some entries that made some interesting & good spotting choices, and a whole bunch of entries that have very poor spotting. They don't change gears with the different beats of the story, they don't carve around dialogue, they don't build momentum, and probably worst of all they don't play off Aaron Paul's reaction shots. Most of the entries just put "vaguely trippy" music during the scenes where Paul's character is tripping out but they don't connect to his awed reaction at the hyper-Nolan-y shots of cars flipping and exploding.

There is an interesting challenge here between how do you make the chase feel faster & more dangerous than it was filmed, while also communicating the character's sense of "awe"/beauty at how cinematic everything is. The Wagner needle drop actually fails pretty badly at balancing those two needs.

Another thing I'm taking away from the early entries is when you go full-bore action drums & synths all the time the scene has nowhere to go. There are some obvious turning points you could hit ("No it's not," or the roof coming off, or Aaron popping his head out the roof) but if the score goes too hard before then, you need a lull before you go back to it.


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## charlieclouser (May 5, 2020)

NoamL said:


> There was someone here (was it @charlieclouser ?) who said "Score the fear of the rider, not the galloping of the horse."



Ha! That's a good quote, but it wasn't me, I'm not that wise. Probably was HZ!


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## Michael Stibor (May 5, 2020)

NoamL said:


> Another thing I'm taking away from the early entries is when you go full-bore action drums & synths all the time the scene has nowhere to go.


I noticed this as well. Many are going all in from minute one. Which makes sense, in a way. If I’m getting shot at, my adrenaline level would be at 100%. However like you said, the problem this poses is that the music has nowhere to go.

Also, and maybe this is just me, but it seems like there is a slight tongue in cheek humour to adding Vakyries to this scene. It almost seems intentionally funny, or at least, surreal. I haven’t seen that element yet. Though of course, no one is being asked to recreate the same feel necessarily. But variety from just all-in balls to the wall action music from the get go could be a difference maker to the judges!


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## CT (May 5, 2020)

NoamL said:


> There was someone here (was it @charlieclouser ?) who said "Score the fear of the rider, not the galloping of the horse."



I thought that was a Jerry quote!


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## NoamL (May 5, 2020)

The post was by @Terry93D (link) credit where due :D does sound like something Goldsmith would say!


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## CT (May 5, 2020)




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## Terry93D (May 5, 2020)

NoamL said:


> The post was by @Terry93D (link) credit where due :D does sound like something Goldsmith would say!


I appreciate being credited with it, but I poached it from someone else. I can't remember who, though - it was either Goldsmith or Elmer Bernstein.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 6, 2020)

NoamL said:


> Yes!
> 
> There was someone here (was it @charlieclouser ?) who said "Score the fear of the rider, not the galloping of the horse."
> 
> ...



Jeez, don't give away all the best hints when there's a competition going on...😄


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## becolossal (May 6, 2020)

VinRice said:


> c) Contrary to some of the cynics in this thread, every entry will be heard, probably by a set of interns first. In this particular instance I suspect they will be looking for _one thing_ in the first 40 seconds that will enable them to filter out 80% of the entries. That one thing is the pivot in style that _must_ occur on "I think he's changing genres". Without that, you're toast.



The "genre" thing barely made sense in the whole episode and makes even less sense when taken out of context and presented like this. Certainly an opportunity to play heavily into it if you want, but not a dealbreaker – that's just my opinion.

I imagine those doing the filtering will do it much the way I did last night when browsing through YouTube and skipping past every entry that spent the first 30 seconds with the same flautando strings attempting to create tension instead of a sense of urgency. My two cents.


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## Michael Stibor (May 6, 2020)

becolossal said:


> The "genre" thing barely made sense in the whole episode and makes even less sense when taken out of context and presented like this. Certainly an opportunity to play heavily into it if you want, but not a dealbreaker



Maybe, but using the whole “genre” thing is the best opportunity to stand out from the pack. Otherwise you’re going to be judged on how good you can make rote action music.


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## becolossal (May 6, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Maybe, but using the whole “genre” thing is the best opportunity to stand out from the pack. Otherwise you’re going to be judged on how good you can make rote action music.



Just saying that latching on to the "genre" thing is one approach. It's not the only approach. Nor is 'rote action music' the only alternative.


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## Michael Stibor (May 6, 2020)

becolossal said:


> Just saying that latching on to the "genre" thing is one approach. It's not the only approach. Nor is 'rote action music' the only alternative.


Hopefully not. But it’s easy to do, If you’re not careful to avoid it.


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## sluggo (May 6, 2020)

So did they really use Valkyries in this scene? (I'm only 2 episodes in to S3) I never really have the popular opinion but I really disliked it's usage. It kind of blows my mind directors/producers would choose something like that for a few reasons. 

1. The piece is already associated with Apocalypse Now in such a profound way. I did not detect any nod to Coppola in this scene. (Other than explosions?)
2. Ride of the Valkyries plays so triumphantly and this scene is so NOT triumphant. It's not working in that ironic way either for me. I would not equate this music choice with all the other wonderful covers that Ramin does for the show. 
3. The pacing and rhythm of the scene is not in sync with feel and tempo of Valkyries.
4. It's kind of insulting to the composer. Here's a great scene that is fun to score and instead of giving it to their VERY capable composer, they slugged in some top 40 classical "Hey I know that piece!". 

So, to be clear. I hate the Wagner in this scene. (This has nothing to do with Wagner's personal beliefs on race or nationalism.) It's just the kind of lazy music placement that completely diminishes the role of the composer and personally took me out...way way out, of the scene. 

So I wonder, maybe the producers are really excited to see/hear a TON of original scores to this scene now that the whole Valkyrie thing is over and no one is really handing out emmys for best placement of a German warhorse.


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## jononotbono (May 6, 2020)

sluggo said:


> 1. The piece is already associated with Apocalypse Now in such a profound way. I did not detect any nod to Coppola in this scene. (Other than explosions?)



Because he's high on a drug called Genre and the drug makes the user feel specific movie tropes. And because Valkeries is associated with such an iconic action film it is giving the user the feeling that he's in an all time action film. The non diegetic reason is to give the viewers of West World the feeling that the characters are going into "battle" or a "fight" and the viewers associate Valkeries with this being one of the ultimate pieces of music for this.

Or Ramin just thought it was as cool as fuck. Or something.


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## sluggo (May 6, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Because he's high on a drug called Genre and the drug makes the user feel specific movie tropes. And because Valkeries is associated with such an iconic action film it is giving the user the feeling that he's in an all time action film. The non diegetic reason is to give the viewers of West World the feeling that the characters are going into "battle" or a "fight" and the viewers associate Valkeries with this being one of the ultimate pieces of music for this.
> 
> Or Ramin just thought it was as cool as fuck. Or something.



Well, like I said, I'm only 2 episodes in. But at this rate, I'll never complete the series. Do they do this kind of placement throughout the season?

I doubt it was Ramin's decision.


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## visiblenoise (May 6, 2020)

sluggo said:


> Well, like I said, I'm only 2 episodes in. But at this rate, I'll never complete the series. Do they do this kind of placement throughout the season?
> 
> I doubt it was Ramin's decision.


You may be interested in reading this: https://www.insider.com/westworld-movie-homages-genre-explained-jonathan-nolan-interview-2020-4

I happen to agree that the Valkyries placement didn't really work out...I mean, it sorta makes sense conceptually after reading that article, but it just didn't feel like the scene was massaged in the writing or the edits to make it fit at all. I actually assumed it was some kind of cheeky temp music. Maybe it makes more sense when watching the entire episode.


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## Laddy (May 7, 2020)

Could you advise me on something? Is it a good idea to duck the music to make room for dialogue etc or is it better to compose in such a way that no ducking is necessary?


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## VinRice (May 7, 2020)

Laddy said:


> Could you advise me on something? Is it a good idea to duck the music to make room for dialogue etc or is it better to compose in such a way that no ducking is necessary?



Always the latter, though some volume tweaks are often needed.


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## Peter Satera (May 7, 2020)

Stefano's entry is bloody awesome! The big guns are coming!


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## NoamL (May 7, 2020)

Laddy said:


> is it better to compose in such a way that no ducking is necessary?



Yes! John Williams masterclass:


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## Eptesicus (May 8, 2020)

Peter Satera said:


> Stefano's entry is bloody awesome! The big guns are coming!





This is very good, fits the picture nicely and is well produced etc. However its Zimmer's Batman with a few notes and chords in different places. I feel like, they are going to get hundreds of entries like this.

Its very tricky

If anything this is even harder than Ramin's job, because he can go with what you would expect to hear (for the most part) ie brahms, pulsing synths and string ostinatos. For us in this competition, I feel like to have a chance you've got to do something different, but still familiar. The judges might get so bored of hearing "bwaaaaaa, dg dg dg dg dg dg" that they just immediately discount those entries after a while.


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 8, 2020)

Peter Satera said:


> Stefano's entry is bloody awesome! The big guns are coming!



The production is good, but it's not brilliantly spotted - the music is all guns blazing before we've had any real dramatic 'permission' for it. A lot of these entries are just 'here's some cool cinematic music' with no effort to actually read the scene and plot the narrative & character development.


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## Peter Satera (May 8, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> This is very good, fits the picture nicely and is well produced etc. However its Zimmer's Batman with a few notes and chords in different places. I feel like, they are going to get hundreds of entries like this.
> 
> Its very tricky
> 
> If anything this is even harder than Ramin's job, because he can go with what you would expect to hear (for the most part) ie brahms, pulsing synths and string ostinatos. For us in this competition, I feel like to have a chance you've got to do something different, but still familiar. The judges might get so bored of hearing "bwaaaaaa, dg dg dg dg dg dg" that they just immediately discount those entries after a while.



I think the orchestral hits is what makes it sounds like batman-esk, and I suppose I can hear similar progressions. I suppose I don't want to discount due to an artists inspiration, especially since we're all inspired in someway. We really have only some idea of what way they'd like to take this other than "not derived from the existing Westworld score, or any other piece of music." The judges might also be looking for something that fits, rather than is absolutely original but doesn't sit with the scene seen.



Richard Wilkinson said:


> The production is good, but it's not brilliantly spotted - the music is all guns blazing before we've had any real dramatic 'permission' for it. A lot of these entries are just 'here's some cool cinematic music' with no effort to actually read the scene and plot the narrative & character development.



I see what you are getting at, it is very big but listening to the making of, they really loved the chance to push a car chase, and they talk about it like it is massive. I assume you are feeling the music is quite 3rd act climax, rather than 2nd. My draw was that it seems to be one of the only ones so far that has great production rather than static sustains or single pulses. There's clear effort to drive the scene and marriage it with music, rather than others which saunter through it.

I suppose this is why the challenge is awesome. It's hard as nails.


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 8, 2020)

It's the harmonic movement at the start too - it's just 'there'. Those sorts of progressions and shifts sound odd at the start of that particular scene - the car has started moving and the music is already trying to 'emote' - it sounds like a trailer or the end of a superhero montage. 

The line 'I think he's switching genres' is really interesting and SUPER important narratively, but the music here...does nothing. It seems to be more interested in itself than in the narrative.

Same with the first volley of gunfire - that's a proper 'raising the stakes' moment, but the music doesn't react. It could stop, or change tempo, shift harmonically, change instrumentation etc - but it just wallpapers over that section.


The drone missile thing is another example - surely you'd want to really play up that moment when it grows wings and starts to home in on the car, but the music doesn't really do anything here.

One thing he's done very well is shot changes and transitions - it gives the scene much more momentum and energy - the light and shade, like the helicopter shot of the vehicles turning the corner is a good example.


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## Peter Satera (May 8, 2020)

I see your points made. I do plan to give this a shot, I have plenty of work though pending before I can get to it though. @Richard Wilkinson will you be entering?


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## Michael Stibor (May 8, 2020)

Getting back to the actual scoring portion of the contest, I’d be curious to know what struggles people have been having with it, whether it’s style, timing, a particular scene, etc. Maybe we could all help each other out.

For myself, the only issue I’ve had is overthinking my hit points. Trying too hard to make sure every little change in the action is being matched by the music (Well not every scene, but more than I should). I have to constantly take a step back and ask myself if it’s really necessary to do so. It may seem like clever composing, but could actually end up with the adverse effect, and the whole thing becomes disjointed.

I also try to force each section into perfect little (even numbered) measures of 4/4. Though when I get away from it, it’s when the most interesting parts show up!


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 8, 2020)

Hit points don't need to be downbeats - I've had a whack at tempo-mapping it and there's loads of hitpoints on weak beats. You can always whack a few 5/4 or 7/8 bars in there. I got plenty!


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## wayne_rowley (May 8, 2020)

I've never actually scored to picture before now - it's always been imagined scenes and stories - so I'm going to give it a go! Chance of winning, minus several million I'm sure. But it's a good experience and I am enjoying it. Got my basic musical structure and key themes in place for the scene. Now to flesh them out and mix. Hoping to have it done by next week.

Challenges: trying to fit the scene yet also remain true to what makes my music 'mine'. Challenges of timing, tempo, identifying key aspects of the clip and working out how it all hangs together.

Great fun though!


Wayne


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## Michael Stibor (May 8, 2020)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Hit points don't need to be downbeats


 I know this and yet I constantly have to remind myself of that.


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## Soundlex (May 8, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> This is very good, fits the picture nicely and is well produced etc. However its Zimmer's Batman with a few notes and chords in different places. I feel like, they are going to get hundreds of entries like this.
> Its very tricky


Exactly.
It is VERY well produced but it's bigger than The Dark Knight...not what is actually needed in that case. Keeping only 15% of the horns would have made this much more of a fit for that chase. Here you keep wondering when Batman or Captain America is going to show up.
But the production and the mix is top notch! Bravo


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## angeruroth (May 8, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> I’d be curious to know what struggles people have been having with it


For me the main struggle was the tempo 'cause "my" hit points aren't equally distant and I wanted to match some melodies. Also, the use of accelerandos to increase the car chase feeling messes with the "real" length of the score, even if you don't overuse it, so I've kind of ignored the bar length at some points.

The other thing was that I wanted to mix an organ and a whistling, and the organ easily overkills everything else while the whistling is just a tiny thing. Sadly the electric guitar collides too much with the organ spectrum, and the three things were meant for the trippy stage, so I have to forget about it.

I'm curious about the main tempo others picked and why they decided to use it.


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## GNP (May 8, 2020)

angeruroth said:


> For me the main struggle was the tempo 'cause "my" hit points aren't equally distant and I wanted to match some melodies. Also, the use of accelerandos to increase the car chase feeling messes with the "real" length of the score, even if you don't overuse it, so I've kind of ignored the bar length at some points.
> 
> The other thing was that I wanted to mix an organ and a whistling, and the organ easily overkills everything else while the whistling is just a tiny thing. Sadly the electric guitar collides too much with the organ spectrum, and the three things were meant for the trippy stage, so I have to forget about it.
> 
> I'm curious about the main tempo others picked and why they decided to use it.



I would say it depends on your sounds and loops that you are using. A simple bass loop can bring alot of character to this scene based on a particular tempo. Then I believe your tempo mapping should be based on that groove and mood. Instinct should always be first, tempo-planning is second.

I always believe that it depends on the groove and mood that a loop or sound can bring, that should determine the tempo. Not the other way around. Mapping your tempos without listening to the true character and mood of your intended loops and sounds can be very counter-productive. But that's just me!


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## Michael Stibor (May 8, 2020)

angeruroth said:


> For me the main struggle was the tempo 'cause "my" hit points aren't equally distant and I wanted to match some melodies. Also, the use of accelerandos to increase the car chase feeling messes with the "real" length of the score, even if you don't overuse it, so I've kind of ignored the bar length at some points.
> 
> The other thing was that I wanted to mix an organ and a whistling, and the organ easily overkills everything else while the whistling is just a tiny thing. Sadly the electric guitar collides too much with the organ spectrum, and the three things were meant for the trippy stage, so I have to forget about it.
> 
> I'm curious about the main tempo others picked and why they decided to use it.


I know that my tempo for the first part hovered about the 142 mark, at least until the car interior shots.


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## Michael Stibor (May 8, 2020)

One complaint I’ve heard several times is that the cars don’t drive very fast. I find that the feeling of fast driving usually comes from quick cuts in editing to give that faster feel. So it’s likely that, like in Djawadi’s version, it was never intended to be a high speed chase. Just a thought. 

However, if you _are_ looking to make it seem faster, I've found that not overdoing the tempo is key. Too fast and it actually makes the driving seem _slower!_


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## angeruroth (May 8, 2020)

GNP said:


> I would say it depends on your sounds and loops that you are using. A simple bass loop can bring alot of character to this scene based on a particular tempo. Then I believe your tempo mapping should be based on that groove and mood. Instinct should always be first, tempo-planning is second.
> 
> I always believe that it depends on the groove and mood that a loop or sound can bring, that should determine the tempo. Not the other way around. Mapping your tempos without listening to the true character and mood of your intended loops and sounds can be very counter-productive. But that's just me!


Hmm, that's interesting.
I think that's true if you use loops or strong tempo textures 'cause you are looking for that exact sound, but if you don't adapt to the scene rhythms the whole thing falls apart, so I find hard to compose that way while trying to follow a scene.
Writing everything note by note lets you choose when and where things happen in your score, and how long a small step can be, so you can set a variable tempo with hard changes if you like (like a 3/4 melody with a 7/4 bar somewhere, but a 5/4 next time you hear that same melody), and it makes easy to lock into the hit points, but then you can find yourself an 8th apart from the next bar of your melody, and if you follow "your" rhythm you lose the hit point.
In my entry you may notice an 8th missing when the bike enters the scene 



mikefrommontreal said:


> I know that my tempo for the first part hovered about the 142 mark, at least until the car interior shots.


I think I settled for 78 with a +-5 range aprox. for the whole thing, but since I "missed" some 8ths here and there...


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## pmcrockett (May 8, 2020)

angeruroth said:


> I'm curious about the main tempo others picked and why they decided to use it.


I'm using 175.551 throughout, with a tiny slowdown near the end. I started with 176, because that was the tempo of one of my early reference tracks -- a Terminator cue -- but I found that 175.551 gave me better hits.

I'm going with a very pulse-based electronic score, though. I think if it were orchestra, I'd have used a lower tempo.

EDIT: Also, since people have mentioned tempo differences inside the car vs. outside the car, I guess it's worth noting that while I'm not changing tempo there, I am mostly in 4/4 inside the car and 6/4 + 5/4 outside the car.


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## paoling (May 8, 2020)

When I heard about the competition I thought: oh cool that's the job for a certain library... Then I watched the scene and it was from the third season, which is a kind of Blade Runner which has a completely different tone from the previous series. Ok nevermind. 

Then Pete sent me his entry and it's already my favourite. It has personality and it reflects the "genre" drug that the character portrait by Aaron Paul took in a previous scene. Yes, it is the job for a certain library and I love his entry because it has PERSONALITY. That's what makes the Mandalorian soundtrack so cool, for example.


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## Michael Stibor (May 8, 2020)

paoling said:


> When I heard about the competition I thought: oh cool that's the job for a certain library... Then I watched the scene and it was from the third season, which is a kind of Blade Runner which has a completely different tone from the previous series. Ok nevermind.
> 
> Then Pete sent me his entry and it's already my favourite. It has personality and it reflects the "genre" drug that the character portrait by Aaron Paul took in a previous scene. Yes, it is the job for a certain library and I love his entry because it has PERSONALITY. That's what makes the Mandalorian soundtrack so cool, for example.



Although it might lose a little bit in the intensity department, it’s definitely my favourite as well so far for the same reason. It stands out!


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## angeruroth (May 8, 2020)

paoling said:


> I love his entry because it has PERSONALITY. That's what makes the Mandalorian soundtrack so cool, for example.


It indeed has, and it's one of the most enjoyable I've seen so far. Fun to watch (sadly I can't say that about most, but I haven't seen a lot) with ups and downs, and a satisfactory ending.
Sometimes I can't hear the voice, but that's easy to fix and the score is great.
Congrats to Pete!


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## asherpope (May 8, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> What library are you talking about? I hate all this code.


Agreed. Also I'm guessing that standout entries won't simply rely on using an epic library like Ark 1 etc. I'm sure they'll be swamped with knock off 2 Steps From Hell submissions and I imagine the entries that grab attention will be a little more experimental than that


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## angeruroth (May 8, 2020)

Hmm, since now we have commented some entries, if nobody objects, I'd love to hear what you think about mine:


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 8, 2020)

angeruroth said:


> Hmm, since now we have commented some entries, if nobody objects, I'd love to hear what you think about mine:




Very nice orchestration! IMO, it's too laid back for the scene, needs more urgency.


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## Eptesicus (May 9, 2020)

paoling said:


> When I heard about the competition I thought: oh cool that's the job for a certain library... Then I watched the scene and it was from the third season, which is a kind of Blade Runner which has a completely different tone from the previous series. Ok nevermind.
> 
> Then Pete sent me his entry and it's already my favourite. It has personality and it reflects the "genre" drug that the character portrait by Aaron Paul took in a previous scene. Yes, it is the job for a certain library and I love his entry because it has PERSONALITY. That's what makes the Mandalorian soundtrack so cool, for example.




This is a cool idea and well executed, but it feels rather flat in places and if I'm brutally honest, I hated the ending.

Still very good though (and probably better than what i am going to come up with )


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 9, 2020)

angeruroth said:


> Hmm, since now we have commented some entries, if nobody objects, I'd love to hear what you think about mine:


I agree with Wolfie2112 - it sort of floats over the scene and doesn't react to the big moments in the edit or the drama. You need to look at the scene a few times and plant your flags on the big, important moments - the opening gunshots, Aaron Paul tripping out, the most impressive cuts in the edit, the homing missile thing etc

All of these are story beats that the music needs to at least acknowledge, if not pre-empt, or react to, or play against etc.


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## angeruroth (May 9, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Very nice orchestration! IMO, it's too laid back for the scene, needs more urgency.


Interesting, I think I may have gone too slow after organ.
Thanks!



Richard Wilkinson said:


> I agree with Wolfie2112 - it sort of floats over the scene and doesn't react to the big moments in the edit or the drama. You need to look at the scene a few times and plant your flags on the big, important moments - the opening gunshots, Aaron Paul tripping out, the most impressive cuts in the edit, the homing missile thing etc
> 
> All of these are story beats that the music needs to at least acknowledge, if not pre-empt, or react to, or play against etc.


I though I was being too obvious at the hit points, so I'm not sure which ones I may have missed.
The main ones I noticed:
1. First shooting start (short ostinatos)
2. Hand in the tablet (piano hit)
3. First car chase (main rhythmic melody)
4. Genre change (the start of the organ and the short whistling)
5. She picks the gun (this one is not really that relevant, but it felt like a good opportunity to exit the rhythmic action for a while and play something soft (maybe too soft in my entry))
6. Rocket launch (sustained chord with a diminuendo and a piano hit)
7. First explosion (a crescendo before, and the silence after)
8. The bad guys car appearing after the explosion (ostinatos)
9. The bike enters the scene (rhythmic pattern evolving into the main melody)
10. The car stops (the melody changes before they exit the car)
11. The bad guys car final approach and the bike appearing again (slow rhythm)
12. The bike impacts the car (again the melody, this time with a piano)
13. W (piano hit)

There were also some other hit points, like the roof or some body movements, but there I tried to be subtle.

Did I miss a big hit point, or maybe was I too subtle?
The ones I can think of could be the shootings before the rocket and when the car turns "sharp left" (I did something in both cases, but avoided rhythmic figures, so maybe that was a mistake). Or maybe the first times Caleb appears being gray?
Thanks!


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 9, 2020)

angeruroth said:


> Did I miss a big hit point, or maybe was I too subtle?


Looks like you've definitely noticed the right things - I think you just need to be more direct and on the nose with those moments.


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## chillbot (May 9, 2020)

angeruroth said:


> I'd love to hear what you think about mine:


Now that I've watched 100+ of these, I like yours because it is different. The pacing and lack of hits don't bother me, because it sounds intentional... like the organ in the beginning is just heavenly and ethereal and floating above everything. It's a creative choice that works for me, because the other choice is to sound like all the rest, so many of which are sadly indistinguishable from each other (sorry).

Where you lose me is from roughly 2:00 to 3:00 with the legato strings. It sounds like you are trying the same approach as the organ, where the strings play a counterpoint to the action on the screen and float above everything, I don't mind the choice but I don't think you executed it as well as the organ in the beginning. It's slow and dragging and doesn't do very much. For this to work (for me) it would need to be bigger and lush and even more emotional, maybe. After that bringing back the rhythmic strings I am much happier. But I also think you chose a weird spot to end, I would maybe consider ending it sooner, on the crash or on the reaction. It comes off a bit awkward. But as ferkel says, I'm just one guy with one opinion...



angeruroth said:


> Did I miss a big hit point, or maybe was I too subtle?


Look for my track "chill bot" if you want to see an example of a lot of not-so-subtle hits. I hit everything, likely to the point of mickeymousing... can't seem to help myself.


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## Jacob Fanto (May 9, 2020)

Thoughts? Comments? New to this forum and still learning to compose and orchestrate; I'm only 16 years old so I knew going into this competition that I'd be severely outmatched, but hey, the experience is the win in itself for me and I'm pretty happy with what I came up with! I'd love to hear what you guys think.


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## angeruroth (May 9, 2020)

chillbot said:


> Where you lose me is from roughly 2:00 to 3:00 with the legato strings. It sounds like you are trying the same approach as the organ, where the strings play a counterpoint to the action on the screen and float above everything, I don't mind the choice but I don't think you executed it as well as the organ in the beginning. It's slow and dragging and doesn't do very much. For this to work (for me) it would need to be bigger and lush and even more emotional, maybe. After that bringing back the rhythmic strings I am much happier. But I also think you chose a weird spot to end, I would maybe consider ending it sooner, on the crash or on the reaction. It comes off a bit awkward. But as ferkel says, I'm just one guy with one opinion...


I'm beginning to think that I went too far with the slow vibe and skipped relevant hits by trying to be subtle.
The ending is another matter: the result of trying to end the melody at the W instead of the crash.
Thanks!
PS: Everyone is just one guy (or gal), but some people know things  [and some people just drink -I say with a beer in my hand].



chillbot said:


> Look for my track "chill bot" if you want to see an example of a lot of not-so-subtle hits. I hit everything, likely to the point of mickeymousing... can't seem to help myself.


Wow, it may not be subtle, but it really works, and it's more varied/interesting than most (including mine).
Also, the atmosphere is great, acting like glue for the whole thing (and this is the first time I think there should be a unifying atmosphere at all). That is kind of subtle, I guess


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## John R Wilson (May 9, 2020)

I remember quite a while ago re-scoring some music to the intro scene for Westworld for a bit of fun. It was challenging, shame it wasn't this scene as I would have submitted that. Here is it for anyone interested in having a listen. Mix isn't probably the best on it as I don't think I spent a huge amount of time mixing it at the time:


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## wayne_rowley (May 9, 2020)

Well, here's mine, for what it's worth!  A good experience, and really fun to do. Westworld meets Jane Austin (kind of).

Be kind, it's the first time I've ever written for video!!


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## NoamL (May 9, 2020)

dang. keep writing music Jacob, that was well done.

Things I liked & learned from:

- your choice of hitpoints really made the chase feel more intense. For example you put the musical downbeat on the characters reacting to the car's acceleration not Dolores saying "go" or the tires starting. And again at 2:15, and 3:27, you have _the music react to the characters reacting_ rather than what the car actually does. Really smart moves here.

- you didn't overscore the scene and have crazy drums & brass everywhere

- I dig the combination of orchestra & distorted synths and basses

- you really keep the music tied to Caleb's experience, like changing the material the instant he gets handed the missile launcher

- I liked the variety of sounds and that you didn't stay with one idea too long unlike A LOT of entries on youtube


Things you could think about changing if you revisit the piece:

- at the beginning, starting the music later once the characters realize they're in danger. Also later it seems like the music gets heavy/dense a bit too soon in two places, before Dolores says "head south" and also again before she breaks off the car roof

- the D-E, D-F, D-E, D-F motif reminded me of James Bond too much


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## Jacob Fanto (May 9, 2020)

Wow, thanks a bunch for all the feedback!! It really means a lot. Hadn't even thought of Bond there haha


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## pmcrockett (May 9, 2020)

Having finally watched the original Ride of the Valkyries version yesterday (which I don't hate, as it turns out), I've realized that if I were trying to remember the clip later after watching it and weren't already intimately familiar with it from doing my own score, I'm pretty sure I'd incorrectly remember it as taking place during the day. Because Ride of the Valkyries sounds like day music to me, not night music.


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## chillbot (May 9, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> Be kind, it's the first time I've ever written for video!!


I like your sound palette a lot. As I said in another post, anything that doesn't sound like every other entry is a win in my book. Very whimsical as it goes from 90s action synth to harpsichord to fairytale heroic major strings (F major?) back to breakbeat back to all of the above? All over the place. Well, it's different. Here's my thing, it doesn't score to picture, which is fine, but if it's going to deviate so drastically from the picture it maybe needs to sell us a bit more, like go full on. More over-the-top whimsical, we're in a giant fairytale. Everything in his head is groovy even though it's a car chase and people are getting all blown up... that would be a solid direction to go in. Yours, to me, is kind of half way between that and the reality. In any case it stands out from the others.


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## jononotbono (May 9, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> Wow, thanks a bunch for all the feedback!! It really means a lot. Hadn't even thought of Bond there haha



You're 16? Well, if you carry on the way you're going then you will do very well writing for film. Very nicely done man. Keep writing!


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## chillbot (May 9, 2020)

I am/was 16 once/now maybe why do you hate old people?


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## jononotbono (May 9, 2020)

chillbot said:


> I am/was 16 once/now maybe why do you hate old people?



I don't hate old people when they have the mind of a 16 year old. I've always loved you.


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## José Herring (May 9, 2020)

pawelmorytko said:


> I went and watched the batmobile chase from Dark Knight for some inspiration and realised there’s hardly any music. That then made me think, maybe it’s best not to have a constant wash of action music throughout the whole clip...




You could be right but this is a way different kind of scene. The batman scene is top notch. The scene caries itself. The Westworld chase actually needs a lot of help with music.

The Batman scene would only benefit from the right music well placed. The Westworld scene needs the right music to drive the scene.


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## CT (May 9, 2020)

All right, I was conflicted about sharing here for some reason, but if others are doing it, here's mine.


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## Supremo (May 10, 2020)

Miket, what strings library did you use here? BTW, one of my favorite entries so far!


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## gst98 (May 10, 2020)

I've noticed a lot of entries have the music louder than it would be if it was in the actualy episode.Do you think people should be mixing it down to be more realistic, or a bit louder so you can hear the score better?


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## wayne_rowley (May 10, 2020)

chillbot said:


> I like your sound palette a lot. As I said in another post, anything that doesn't sound like every other entry is a win in my book. Very whimsical as it goes from 90s action synth to harpsichord to fairytale heroic major strings (F major?) back to breakbeat back to all of the above? All over the place. Well, it's different. Here's my thing, it doesn't score to picture, which is fine, but if it's going to deviate so drastically from the picture it maybe needs to sell us a bit more, like go full on. More over-the-top whimsical, we're in a giant fairytale. Everything in his head is groovy even though it's a car chase and people are getting all blown up... that would be a solid direction to go in. Yours, to me, is kind of half way between that and the reality. In any case it stands out from the others.



Thanks for this - really helpful!

Wayne


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## Jacob Fanto (May 10, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> You're 16? Well, if you carry on the way you're going then you will do very well writing for film. Very nicely done man. Keep writing!



Thank you very much! Yeah, I was fortunate enough to start musically training (on percussion actually) with private coaches at a very young age and I soon joined a regional youth ensemble/orchestra and started composing from there.


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## Jacob Fanto (May 10, 2020)

miket said:


> All right, I was conflicted about sharing here for some reason, but if others are doing it, here's mine.




Really liking the somewhat subdued style of yours, makes it a bit easier on the ears to listen to haha. I also like what you did with the brass throughout, some cool stuff there. Not sure how I felt about not hearing music until the first genre swap though, but it'll definitely be unique! Good entry overall, thanks for sharing!


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## jononotbono (May 10, 2020)

gst98 said:


> I've noticed a lot of entries have the music louder than it would be if it was in the actualy episode.Do you think people should be mixing it down to be more realistic, or a bit louder so you can hear the score better?



Dialogue is god. Not the composer...
Usually!


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## CT (May 10, 2020)

Supremo said:


> Miket, what strings library did you use here? BTW, one of my favorite entries so far!



Hey, that's very kind of you. Strings courtesy of the fine folks in the BBC Symphony Orchestra.


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## angeruroth (May 10, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> Thoughts? Comments? New to this forum and still learning to compose and orchestrate; I'm only 16 years old so I knew going into this competition that I'd be severely outmatched, but hey, the experience is the win in itself for me and I'm pretty happy with what I came up with! I'd love to hear what you guys think.



16?! OMG, you are good  After watching the anime score you have in your youtube I must say that I liked that one a lot more, but different things require different approaches, and you have nice ideas in there, in both cases. The fact that you can compose like this at 16 is just marvelous. Congrats!


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## Jacob Fanto (May 10, 2020)

angeruroth said:


> 16?! OMG, you are good  After watching the anime score you have in your youtube I must say that I liked that one a lot more, but different things require different approaches, and you have nice ideas in there, in both cases. The fact that you can compose like this at 16 is just marvelous. Congrats!



Hey, thanks! (for the kind words and for checking out my other stuff) 
The approach I took with Poulette's Chair wouldn't really have fit with the intensity and action of the Westworld scene, like you said. But I'm glad you liked them both!


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## CT (May 10, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> Really liking the somewhat subdued style of yours, makes it a bit easier on the ears to listen to haha. I also like what you did with the brass throughout, some cool stuff there. Not sure how I felt about not hearing music until the first genre swap though, but it'll definitely be unique! Good entry overall, thanks for sharing!



Thanks for taking the time to listen. Of all the choices I made there, I think starting on Jesse (whatever, he's Jesse) tripping out is the one I'm most confident in. Whatever the larger context of the scene, of the snippet that we're given, that truly feels like the most natural entry point to me.


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## Jacob Fanto (May 10, 2020)

What did you guys who listened to my entry think of the audio levels? Someone commented on the video saying they were way too low, and I checked from my iPhone w/out earbuds and the lower half of the audio register was definitely lower than it should be. However, on a laptop, especially with earbuds or headphones, the sound is fine. I think I may have just brought the DB a little too low. Keeping in mind that the judges will probably be listening on a device with massive speakers and/or quality headphones, do you think this is an issue that's worth re-uploading for? It's got me anxious, but I wanted to know what you guys thought when listening.


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## Pincel (May 10, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> What did you guys who listened to my entry think of the audio levels? Someone commented on the video saying they were way too low, and I checked from my iPhone w/out earbuds and the lower half of the audio register was definitely lower than it should be. However, on a laptop, especially with earbuds or headphones, the sound is fine. I think I may have just brought the DB a little too low. Keeping in mind that the judges will probably be listening on a device with massive speakers and/or quality headphones, do you think this is an issue that's worth re-uploading for? It's got me anxious, but I wanted to know what you guys thought when listening.



I really liked your entry, but definitely felt the overall volume has a bit too low. It's up to you, but I think it wouldn't hurt.


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## Pincel (May 10, 2020)

miket said:


> All right, I was conflicted about sharing here for some reason, but if others are doing it, here's mine.





Love this one! Probably my favorite from the ones I've heard so far. Really fits the sort of dystopian vibe to my ears, without being over-bearing. Congrats!


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## fakemaxwell (May 10, 2020)

wayne_rowley said:


> Well, here's mine, for what it's worth!  A good experience, and really fun to do. Westworld meets Jane Austin (kind of).
> 
> Be kind, it's the first time I've ever written for video!!




This one is like the rocket in the scene- complete miss, but somehow circles back around to hitting the target.

It doesn't really work in its current state, there's a whole lot you can retool to make it flow better with the picture but this one is my favorite just because of how out of the box it is.


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## Jacob Fanto (May 10, 2020)

Pincel said:


> I really liked your entry, but definitely felt the overall volume has a bit too low. It's up to you, but I think it wouldn't hurt.



Fixed DB, re-uploading now. Gut feeling. Thanks!


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## wayne_rowley (May 10, 2020)

rapscallione said:


> This one is like the rocket in the scene- complete miss, but somehow circles back around to hitting the target.
> 
> It doesn't really work in its current state, there's a whole lot you can retool to make it flow better with the picture but this one is my favorite just because of how out of the box it is.



That is very kind, thank you!

I might tweak it, though mainly because my wife keeps nagging be to add more double basses.

Wayne


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## Jacob Fanto (May 10, 2020)

Hopefully it's audible now... oops. Enjoy!


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## jononotbono (May 10, 2020)

Just been watching a few submissions. Some people have literally not looked at the FAQ because they are using West World themes, covers of Valkeries, just heard a Fur Elise interpretation.

Might be disappointing for these people as the FAQ on the Spitfire site states that the music must be 100% your own work.

Still fun though.


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## Normqn (May 10, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Just been watching a few submissions. Some people have literally not looked at the FAQ because they are using West World themes, covers of Valkeries, just heard a Fur Elise interpretation.
> 
> Might be disappointing for these people as the FAQ on the Spitfire site states that the music must be 100% your own work.
> 
> Still fun though.



Taking a classical piece from the public domain and make it your own is 100% your own work or am I wrong ?


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## jononotbono (May 10, 2020)

Normqn said:


> Taking a classical piece from the public domain and make it your own is 100% your own work or am I wrong ?



From the FAQ...


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## Normqn (May 10, 2020)

Yes, don't make a cover of Nirvana for obvious copyright reason, but I don't see the problem with music from the public domain


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## Eptesicus (May 10, 2020)

Normqn said:


> Yes, don't make a cover of Nirvana for obvious copyright reason, but I don't see the problem with music from the public domain



It literally says you shouldn't do that though so whilst you may not see a problem, you will have one


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## jononotbono (May 10, 2020)

Normqn said:


> Yes, don't make a cover of Nirvana for obvious copyright reason, but I don't see the problem with music from the public domain



It says "any other piece of music". This means, any piece of music you didn't write can't used. Hey man, I'm just the messenger. That reads the not so small print.


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## Pincel (May 10, 2020)

Normqn said:


> Yes, don't make a cover of Nirvana for obvious copyright reason, but I don't see the problem with music from the public domain




Not so much a copyright issue per se, I understand it more as them wanting completely original music for the contest purposes, not based on other sources even if it would be legal (in the case of public domain of course).


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## Normqn (May 10, 2020)

Yes and with them giving us Wagner, I decided to go the same way because it makes sense in the true spirit of the series.
Maybe I'm wrong but I had fun !


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## jononotbono (May 10, 2020)

Normqn said:


> Yes and with them giving us Wagner, I decided to go the same way because it makes sense in the true spirit of the series.
> Maybe I'm wrong but I had fun !



Having fun is all the matters! Where is yours? I’d love to hear it!


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## Normqn (May 10, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Having fun is all the matters! Where is yours? I’d love to hear it!


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## brenneisen (May 10, 2020)

Normqn said:


> Youtube Link



fun concept!

unfortunately, it won't be considered as an entry


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## jononotbono (May 10, 2020)

Normqn said:


>




Impressive man!


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## jononotbono (May 10, 2020)

Well. That's my tempo map sorted then.


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## SimonViklund (May 11, 2020)

Normqn said:


>



Maybe it's a strange thing to notice, but I love the stereo image!


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## synkrotron (May 11, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Well. That's my tempo map sorted then.



Me too


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## SimonViklund (May 11, 2020)

synkrotron said:


> Me too


What tempo did you decide on?


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## synkrotron (May 11, 2020)

SimonViklund said:


> What tempo did you decide on?



It's the little number top left, 40 beats per minute.

EDIT: I don't know my right hand from my left hand. Post changed accordingly.


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## Eptesicus (May 11, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Well. That's my tempo map sorted then.



Looks like an ECG readout.


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 11, 2020)

Looks quite pedestrian by comparison!


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## Alex Fraser (May 11, 2020)

miket said:


> All right, I was conflicted about sharing here for some reason, but if others are doing it, here's mine.



Nice work, Mike. Understated rather than "in-yer-face." The discordant horn swells gave the clip a more dystopian feel rather than "NCIS in the future." 👍


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## Michael Stibor (May 11, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> From the FAQ...


Interesting. Thanks for posting that. I was contemplating “hinting” at a couple of well known (copyright free)musical phrases, as I knew that they would work well. Decided against it as I thought it might work against me, contest wise. Glad I decided that!


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## brenneisen (May 11, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Well. That's my tempo map sorted then.



it's not Tom & Jerry, my boy


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## jononotbono (May 11, 2020)

brenneisen said:


> it's not Tom & Jerry, my boy



Mickey Mousing every pixel. And then putting a Taiko on each one.


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## toomanynotes (May 11, 2020)

Interesting - at least *200,000* people have seen the video competition...
Lets be realistic - I would expect AT LEAST *10,000* entries regardless if good or not.
Competition ends on 3rd of June and Winner announced on the 19th June -
So they have *12 days* to review all submissions. 12 x 24hrs = *288hrs* to review every piece providing they don't sleep or include weekends. Impossible.

*10,000 *entries x *3min *of music = *500 hours* of music, you would need *3 weeks 24/7 listening.* Impossible.
BUT if they only listen for *8 hours a day*...which they won't.it would take *2 months!!*!
So how do they do it in *12 days*?, no one will get paid to listen to more than 4 bars of music before it goes in trash bin. Just curious. If anyone marks composition papers for a living...you know it, I know it..it will destroy you and for that reason I'm out.


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## Michael Stibor (May 11, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> Interesting - at least *200,000* people have seen the video competition...
> Lets be realistic - I would expect AT LEAST *10,000* entries regardless if good or not.
> Competition ends on 3rd of June and Winner announced on the 19th June -
> So the have 12 days to review all submissions. 12 x 24hrs. So they have 288hrs to review every piece providing they don't sleep or include weekends. Impossible.
> ...


I like your reasoning. Completely fair.

And sure they’re going to skip along. I know I have already. I listen to the first ten seconds and if it seems generic, I skip quickly to other parts to see if it improves. If not, I move on. I’m assuming they’ll do the same. So everyone’s opening better be good!

Also, I’m not doing it to win. I have complete confidence that I won’t. But it’s an opportunity to show myself whether I can do it for real or not. Most importantly, I’m just doing it to have fun. But for anyone who is already scoring professionally, yeah I’d probably skip it.


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## Eptesicus (May 11, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> Interesting - at least *200,000* people have seen the video competition...
> Lets be realistic - I would expect AT LEAST *10,000* entries regardless if good or not.
> Competition ends on 3rd of June and Winner announced on the 19th June -
> So the have 12 days to review all submissions. 12 x 24hrs. So they have 288hrs to review every piece providing they don't sleep or include weekends. Impossible.
> ...



Yeh they will be listening till the genre change bit and deciding whether to carry on or ditch it from there i think. They might not get as far as that for some if the first few seconds is really bad.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 11, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> Interesting - at least *200,000* people have seen the video competition...
> Lets be realistic - I would expect AT LEAST *10,000* entries regardless if good or not.
> Competition ends on 3rd of June and Winner announced on the 19th June -
> So the have 12 days to review all submissions. 12 x 24hrs. So they have 288hrs to review every piece providing they don't sleep or include weekends. Impossible.
> ...



They might even have screeners that listen to the entries as they arrive.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 11, 2020)

I'm sure they'll skim through every entry and toss it into a "no," "maybe," or "yes" pile. Then listen more thoroughly from there.


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## toomanynotes (May 11, 2020)

I guess it'll be ruthless!!  Good luck fellas may the force be with you!!


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## pmcrockett (May 11, 2020)

#westworldraffle2020


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## Kony (May 11, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> Competition ends on 3rd of June and Winner announced on the 19th June -
> So they have *12 days* to review all submissions


They could be reviewing submissions now as they get entered into the competition - ie not waiting until 3rd June to start the reviewing process.


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## brenneisen (May 11, 2020)

Kony said:


> They could be reviewing submissions now as they get entered into the competition - ie not waiting until 3rd June to start the reviewing process.


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## chillbot (May 11, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> *10,000 *entries x *3min *of music = *500 hours* of music, you would need *3 weeks 24/7 listening.* Impossible.
> BUT if they only listen for *8 hours a day*...which they won't.it would take *2 months!!*!
> So how do they do it in *12 days*?, no one will get paid to listen to more than 4 bars of music before it goes in trash bin. Just curious. If anyone marks composition papers for a living...you know it, I know it..it will destroy you and for that reason I'm out.


10,000 entries is a random and hyperbolic number. And you are assuming one person is judging all of them? They almost certainly have a team of judges. But it's a great excuse for you not to enter anyway.


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## Yogevs (May 11, 2020)

1. They probably have already started "reviewing". Not judging. Just filtering.
2. There will probably be a few that they will just close after 10-20 seconds
3. I can only assume they will also skip a few (whoops...)


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 11, 2020)

chillbot said:


> 10,000 entries is a random and hyperbolic number. And you are assuming one person is judging all of them? They almost certainly have a team of judges. But it's a great excuse for you not to enter anyway.



I love the people that aren’t entering, leaves more opportunity for those of us that did!


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## Yogevs (May 11, 2020)

Unless you are an already big "named" composer - no real reason why not entering


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## jononotbono (May 11, 2020)

Everybody should enter this. Time for some fun, practise, learning, experience, all of that.

But more importantly, here’s that chance for all those people that relentlessly slag off modern music and how the everything has gone to shit brigade can finally show how things are done.

That’s the real opportunity here. 😂


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## gst98 (May 11, 2020)

I checked yesterday and there were about 300 entires on youtube. (at least that I could see). I doubt there will be as many as 10,000.


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## toomanynotes (May 11, 2020)

chillbot said:


> 10,000 entries is a random and hyperbolic number. And you are assuming one person is judging all of them? They almost certainly have a team of judges. But it's a great excuse for you not to enter anyway.


you're still in deep dung with 5000 submissions. 


Yogevs said:


> Unless you are an already big "named" composer - no real reason why not entering


 I am Mozart I write for Emperors


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## toomanynotes (May 11, 2020)

gst98 said:


> I checked yesterday and there were about 300 entires on youtube. (at least that I could see). I doubt there will be as many as 10,000.


fair point taken


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## Normqn (May 11, 2020)

Also, when I clic on the #WestworldScoringCompetition2020 and rank the video per more views I never see my video (im at 1k2)

Youtube does not show every video !

Kind reminder : *File up the form for the Competition*


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## Kony (May 11, 2020)

They probably are reviewing now - why would they wait until 4th June?


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## Laddy (May 11, 2020)

In case any participants modifies their entry before deadline, which is allowed.


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## Kony (May 11, 2020)

Laddy said:


> In case any participants modifies their entry before deadline, which is allowed.


Good point - I hadn't considered that


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## chillbot (May 11, 2020)

Normqn said:


> Youtube does not show every video !


So mine didn't show up either, even though I tagged it in the proper spot (I thought) for tagging where it says "enter tags here" or whatever it is. Until I put the hashtag link in the actual title of the video. Then it started showing up when you click the hashtag. This is literally my first video posted to youtube, so... no clue, just sharing what worked for me.


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## Peter Satera (May 12, 2020)

Laddy said:


> In case any participants modifies their entry before deadline, which is allowed.



The judging will be already commenced. 
The form is resubmitted, you would get another prompt to rejudge. It will be infrequent that people resubmit.

The judging is doable, if it is 500 hours, and that's divided up by say 5 staff. That's 100 hours each. That's 2 weeks if you do it for 7 hours a day. But they won't be watching the while thing. Any snippet of a deal-breaker and it goes off.


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## korgscrew2000 (May 12, 2020)

pawelmorytko said:


> I went and watched the batmobile chase from Dark Knight for some inspiration and realised there’s hardly any music. That then made me think, maybe it’s best not to have a constant wash of action music throughout the whole clip...




It works perfectly with little to no score imo. It's almost like you're there. 

Hans did the same thing in rises with the Batman Bane fight, no music and it was intense.


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## synkrotron (May 12, 2020)

My four minute drone idea might well work then


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## korgscrew2000 (May 12, 2020)

synkrotron said:


> My four minute drone idea might well work then



To be fair, if you listen to a lot of soundtracks as I do, there is a lot of underscore drone type stuff in those scores.

I remember watching a behind the score with Hans on Hannibal. Ridley said that he wanted Hans for the movie because he can push the boundaries, does something different etc etc. All I heard in the movie was underscore, a few string rises and a beautiful opera piece that wasn't even written by Hans, nothing that pushed boundaries. So I guess it depends on what the Director wants and how he perceives pushing and doing something different. In Ridley's case, different was underscore. Not that the score is boring, it's in my rotation of what I listen to as I enjoy it.


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## Yogevs (May 12, 2020)

The context is different though. I would have scored this scene completely different if I would have scored the entire episode, season, show, and this competition. 
Still lots of fun though !


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## synkrotron (May 12, 2020)

korgscrew2000 said:


> To be fair, if you listen to a lot of soundtracks as I do, there is a lot of underscore drone type stuff in those scores.



I have to admit that in all my years I have never listened to any soundtrack stuff. Not because I don't like it, I just never thought to get into it over and above my so called "normal" band stuff.

So unless a soundtrack was released as a stand alone album, like Tubular Bells, for instance, which was used in The Exorcist, then I never bothered.

Oh, I did get Tangerine Dream's Sorcerer, Thief, Shy People, Firestarter and Near Dark, but I was a big TD fan anyway, so pretty much everything they made, up to a point, I bought.


And because of that I sometimes wonder why I hang out here because I don't know the first thing about film/trailer scoring, or any sort of scoring for that matter. I just like sounds and over the last six months or so I have become more interested in sample libraries, which this place excels at, I think 

cheers

andy


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## synkrotron (May 12, 2020)

Great video, @korgscrew2000 , thanks for sharing


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 12, 2020)

I'm super-busy at the moment (thankfully) but I couldn't resist! I gave myself a day max. technically two half-days, but hey...

I went for 'fun' over anything else, and really tried to hit all the important hitpoints, edits, narrative beats etc. Lots to polish up if I had the time (there's a 4/4 section in there that's too slow and really drags things down) but as a speed-writing exercise it was a lot of fun!


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## korgscrew2000 (May 12, 2020)

synkrotron said:


> I have to admit that in all my years I have never listened to any soundtrack stuff. Not because I don't like it, I just never thought to get into it over and above my so called "normal" band stuff.
> 
> So unless a soundtrack was released as a stand alone album, like Tubular Bells, for instance, which was used in The Exorcist, then I never bothered.
> 
> ...



It's pretty much all I listen to! I enjoy the moody stuff from the likes of Olafur Arnalds, Johnan Johansson, Hans etc.


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## fish_hoof (May 12, 2020)

Hi all! I decided to share my entry. Honestly, all the best to everyone! Win or loose, we all learn something from doing this.


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## grantfloering (May 14, 2020)

I learned a shit ton scoring to this scene. Like how I love writing this genre. I could keep finessing this, but at some point I just gotta let it go! Enjoy 🙏🏼


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## korgscrew2000 (May 14, 2020)

grantfloering said:


> I learned a shit ton scoring to this scene. Like how I love writing this genre. I could keep finessing this, but at some point I just gotta let it go! Enjoy 🙏🏼




Love it! Just one minor criticism, I would like to hear it without the choir. For me personally, it doesn't fit with the futuristic genre. Reminded me of angels a demons more than westworld. But, the pace is perfect and the percussion is ace!


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## grantfloering (May 14, 2020)

korgscrew2000 said:


> Love it! Just one minor criticism, I would like to hear it without the choir. For me personally, it doesn't fit with the futuristic genre. Reminded me of angels a demons more than westworld. But, the pace is perfect and the percussion is ace!


 Thanks man! Appreciate the kind words and critique! I literally have been battling the decision to add a children’s choir over the past 24 hours. The low male choir is important, but then I added the children’s choir yesterday to make things “different” and stand out. Some of the chords/lines they’re singing are important now, so I might need to find a replacement for those if I were to take them out. Thankfully we can edit submissions until the deadline 🤓


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## darcvision (May 14, 2020)

hello, wanted to share my entry... its my first time writing sci-fi score for film. i'm using alot of sample and manipulate them, and for synth i'm using synthmaster player and afterlife library from kontakt. hope everyone enjoy scoring this competition... good luck


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## Eropel (May 14, 2020)

Hey all, another long time lurker and first time poster over here. Just wanted to share my entry as well, best of luck to everyone participating!


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## Andrajas (May 15, 2020)

So I entered as well! Was a big challenge but a fun one!  good luck everyone!


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## Michael Stibor (May 15, 2020)

Hey guys, the thread title mentions advice so I’m asking for some. I guess it’s more that I was curious about people’s approach to hit points. I think I might be overthinking it a bit. I tend to want to hit so many hit points, and fear that I have been sacrificing tempo and natural flow in order to accomplish it.

I know that sometimes as composers were are required to fit square pegs into round holes and make them seem like they’re supposed to be there, but I do struggle with it that a bit. I’m sure if I had all the the time in the world, I could do it. But I set out to finish this quickly and that is just NOT happening. I have uneven tempos, 11 bar spaces, and motifs that end quicker than they naturally should.

So I’m curious to what everyone’s philosophy is on this. Do you all make like say, ten hit points that you’d like to accomplish, and then just set a tempo and write? Or do you create as many hit points as you feel is absolutely required and then figure out how to make it work later?

Your advice is appreciated. I’m not going to win I can assure you, so I promise you’re not helping out the competition, hahaha.


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## Eptesicus (May 15, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Hey guys, the thread title mentions advice so I’m asking for some. I guess it’s more that I was curious about people’s approach to hit points. I think I might be overthinking it a bit. I tend to want to hit so many hit points, and fear that I have been sacrificing tempo and natural flow in order to accomplish it.
> 
> I know that sometimes as composers were are required to fit square pegs into round holes and make them seem like they’re supposed to be there, but I do struggle with it that a bit. I’m sure if I had all the the time in the world, I could do it. But I set out to finish this quickly and that is just NOT happening. I have uneven tempos, 11 bar spaces, and motifs that end quicker than they naturally should.
> 
> ...



Hehe. That's the challenge! To keep it flowing and stop it sounding awkward, whilst still hitting key points.

I would say pick key hit points and don't try and hit absolutely everything. You dont want to mickey mouse it.


----------



## FuzyDunlop (May 15, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Hey guys, the thread title mentions advice so I’m asking for some. I guess it’s more that I was curious about people’s approach to hit points. I think I might be overthinking it a bit. I tend to want to hit so many hit points, and fear that I have been sacrificing tempo and natural flow in order to accomplish it.
> 
> I know that sometimes as composers were are required to fit square pegs into round holes and make them seem like they’re supposed to be there, but I do struggle with it that a bit. I’m sure if I had all the the time in the world, I could do it. But I set out to finish this quickly and that is just NOT happening. I have uneven tempos, 11 bar spaces, and motifs that end quicker than they naturally should.
> 
> ...



I'm not very experienced with scoring to picture, but here is my entry and my thoughts behind the issue you raised:



I took the approach of just creating a piece that would give an atmosphere to the entire scene, rather than hitting each point of action directly. Some of it lined up well, some of it didn't. Points I couldn't hit directly with some kind of musical cue I tried to hit _around_, which I think (but don't know) is just as effective for the audience. Some I just left alone- I don't think _everything_ needs to be commented on. 

A couple of things I've realized is that sometimes things just happen to sync up by chance, and sometimes they're close enough that it feels appropriate. For instance, did you ever watch The Wizard of Oz with The Dark Side of the Moon? There are many points where it seems like it's scored to the picture, but it isn't at all. It's close enough that many many people have noticed and felt moved by it. I think you've already realized that if you try too hard to just hit all the action points the music can feel stilted. It can also be really cheesy. I don't know if my piece will work for everyone, but it works for me and I have learned a lot from doing this already. I plan on trying a couple different ideas with this same video and see what other approaches work or don't work.

So those are my thoughts, but like I said I don't have a lot of experience with this subject.


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## Nico (May 15, 2020)

my 2 cents: one thing I found/do sometimes, is to find a groove/theme working in, for example, 7/4 or 5/4 from the very start. it is then easier to move it into 4/4 than the opposite. Also "hitpoint" does not mean it has to be on the one the 1st beat.


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## Michael Stibor (May 15, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Hehe. That's the challenge! To keep it flowing and stop it sounding awkward, whilst still hitting key points.
> 
> I would say pick key hit points and don't try and hit absolutely everything. You dont want to mickey mouse it.


That’s the problem. I try to Mickey Mouse it too much. I’ve made it work so far, don’t get me wrong. But I guess I’m wondering if it’s really necessary. I mean other people finished theres in days. I’m going on two weeks and am still only less than two minutes in.


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## Michael Stibor (May 15, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I'm not very experienced with scoring to picture, but here is my entry and my thoughts behind the issue you raised:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like it. I guess it feels a little slow, but it works. Mine couldn’t be more different. Yours has like a Michael Mann film vibe, whereas mine is like a roller coaster of classical music in a major key. I guess it goes to show how differently they can be approached. Thanks for posting that and for the comments. Definitely gives me food for thought in NOT overdoing it. Which I tend to do.


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## becolossal (May 15, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> That’s the problem. I try to Mickey Mouse it too much. I’ve made it work so far, don’t get me wrong. But I guess I’m wondering if it’s really necessary. I mean other people finished theres in days. I’m going on two weeks and am still only less than two minutes in.



My two cents (last one's a little long):

1. Definitely don't benchmark yourself on time to completion as compared to everyone else. The deadline is when SA/HBO said the deadline was, not when everyone else submitted.

2. Personally, I don't overdue the hit-points. There are obvious ones and then ones you think you should hit, but really shouldn't. If there are several in succession that are too close, find the one that is the most important. Every cut or action moment in a scene like this isn't something that needs overt attention called to it. Go with what "feels" right because that's what the audience will be doing. 

A perfect example is near the beginning of this scene. There are several points you could highlight when the chase "starts." But when do you want the audience to 'feel' like it's started? Is it when Dolores says "go"? Is it when the car peels out? Is it when the dude with the long fingernails falls back in his seat (lol)? You can't pick all of those (imo) and have it feel cohesive, so you pick one. Also, as @Nico said above, a hit isn't always on the downbeat or even straight with a cut – it can come a bit before or a little after depending on what kind of point it is. That should also help with keeping a more consistent tempo where the audience won't feel the shifts.

If you're changing tempos and drawing attention to every little thing, it will pull the audience further out by making them notice they aren't in sync with what they are hearing. A score is supposed to support, not take center stage.

Hope that helps!


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## fish_hoof (May 15, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Hey guys, the thread title mentions advice so I’m asking for some. I guess it’s more that I was curious about people’s approach to hit points. I think I might be overthinking it a bit. I tend to want to hit so many hit points, and fear that I have been sacrificing tempo and natural flow in order to accomplish it.
> 
> I know that sometimes as composers were are required to fit square pegs into round holes and make them seem like they’re supposed to be there, but I do struggle with it that a bit. I’m sure if I had all the the time in the world, I could do it. But I set out to finish this quickly and that is just NOT happening. I have uneven tempos, 11 bar spaces, and motifs that end quicker than they naturally should.
> 
> ...



Great question. Something I have worked on for years. I know others will have great perspectives but I will share my approach. 

Often, when I watch a scene, I will make note what cuts specifically jump out at me. Then I will work on tempo and pace to get me from A to B to C etc. Maybe that involves a bunch of hit points, maybe it doesn't. I think the best advice I can ever give someone, is instinct. What does your gut say. You mentioned that you have uneven tempos, 11 bar spaces... motifs that end too quick. Sounds like your gut is saying "this isn't working". So... perhaps scale back... what hits do YOU like. Then.. try and nail them. 

Trust your gut. Don't feel pressured to hit every little thing. Serve the story. 

Hope that helps a little.


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## pmcrockett (May 15, 2020)

I ended up hitting far more hits points than I intended to when I mapped out the tempo and meter and I'm still not sure how that happened. I guess using a high tempo helps because it's more likely that something will just randomly line up.


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## Michael Stibor (May 15, 2020)

becolossal said:


> My two cents (last one's a little long):
> 
> 1. Definitely don't benchmark yourself on time to completion as compared to everyone else. The deadline is when SA/HBO said the deadline was, not when everyone else submitted.
> 
> ...


Wow, great advice. Thank you! I’ll take all three to heart. In a way I know that I shouldn’t over do the the hit points, but it’s like I keep doing it anyway. It’s like my desire to try and be clever over takes common sense!

P.S. I never noticed his finger nails but now I can’t I see it. Great.


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## Michael Stibor (May 15, 2020)

fish_hoof said:


> Great question. Something I have worked on for years. I know others will have great perspectives but I will share my approach.
> 
> Often, when I watch a scene, I will make note what cuts specifically jump out at me. Then I will work on tempo and pace to get me from A to B to C etc. Maybe that involves a bunch of hit points, maybe it doesn't. I think the best advice I can ever give someone, is instinct. What does your gut say. You mentioned that you have uneven tempos, 11 bar spaces... motifs that end too quick. Sounds like your gut is saying "this isn't working". So... perhaps scale back... what hits do YOU like. Then.. try and nail them.
> 
> ...


Really does. Thank you.


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## becolossal (May 15, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Wow, great advice. Thank you! I’ll take all three to heart. In a way I know that I shouldn’t over do the the hit points, but it’s like I keep doing it anyway. It’s like my desire to try and be clever over takes common sense!
> 
> P.S. I never noticed his finger nails but now I can’t I see it. Great.



I'm definitely a "less is more" kind of person. Much of it is an illusion. Fingernails = prime example. 

Here's another one: while you're worrying about timing every musical hit perfectly, they couldn't be bothered to find pants that fit for the thug on the far right at the very beginning of the clip :D

Have fun!!


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 15, 2020)

Here's a tip: if you can get in the groove of the editor's tempo, a lot of the 'hitting things perfectly' will fall right into place. The editors really did an excellent job with this and it made my life pretty easy.
But you gotta nail that pacing in the first place.


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## pmcrockett (May 15, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> Here's a tip: if you can get in the groove of the editor's tempo, a lot of the 'hitting things perfectly' will fall right into place. The editors really did an excellent job with this and it made my life pretty easy.
> But you gotta nail that pacing in the first place.


Your saying this made me go back and check the original Valkyrie version, which they presumably edited the video to, and I discovered that the original tempo ranges from about 80-88 BPM, which is right about half of the 175.551 BPM I was mostly working at. No wonder my hits worked out so well!


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## Bernard Duc (May 16, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Wow, great advice. Thank you! I’ll take all three to heart. In a way I know that I shouldn’t over do the the hit points, but it’s like I keep doing it anyway. It’s like my desire to try and be clever over takes common sense!
> 
> P.S. I never noticed his finger nails but now I can’t I see it. Great.



Despite their names, don't try to hit perfectly hit points. It's almost always better to be a least a couple of frames late, sometimes even a whole beat late is better. Being early, even just a couple of frames, is usually bad as you're basically spoiling the story and it feels forced. The only early "hit" that can work is if you stop the music just before something happens.... but in this case the sound effect becomes basically the hit (for example if you stop the music just before a gunshot).

Composers working on films where they record a real orchestra don't do much with the tempo mapping since it makes the recording much more difficult.


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## gussunkri (May 16, 2020)

This thread is a goldmine and in one sense I feel that the Spitfire competition has already been a success just based on inspiring this thread.


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## redlester (May 16, 2020)

This is a very naive newbie question no doubt, but I have to ask...

I have extracted the dialogue/FX as per Paul's instructional video, but am finding that with the fader on that track left at zero it is peaking well into the red at numerous times, and is quite high level throughout.

I would normally aim to use common gain staging advice and practice, but should I be aiming for a higher level - either in the individual tracks or the final mix - than I normally would for a musical (not to picture) track? Am curious because "turning everything up to eleven" goes against my instincts.


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## Michael Stibor (May 16, 2020)

Bernard Duc said:


> Despite their names, don't try to hit perfectly hit points. It's almost always better to be a least a couple of frames late, sometimes even a whole beat late is better. Being early, even just a couple of frames, is usually bad as you're basically spoiling the story and it feels forced. The only early "hit" that can work is if you stop the music just before something happens.... but in this case the sound effect becomes basically the hit (for example if you stop the music just before a gunshot).
> 
> Composers working on films where they record a real orchestra don't do much with the tempo mapping since it makes the recording much more difficult.


That’s what I was thinking as well! I was like it seems odd to have the music change exactly on a scene change, but what do I know? That’s what Paul showed in the video.
And why was it necessary to be so exact? They were just using those video swipes back in the day. I’m sure John Williams_ still _does. But I did what Paul’s video showed. Maybe I was being too literal.


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## redlester (May 16, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> That’s what I was thinking as well! I was like it seems odd to have the music change exactly on a scene change, but what do I know? That’s what Paul showed in the video.



I think he was just using that as an example of how to correctly input a tempo change into Logic.


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## Michael Stibor (May 16, 2020)

redlester said:


> I think he was just using that as an example of how to correctly input a tempo change into Logic.


Definitely. But he did show landing on the exact frame a scene changed as his example. Easy to misinterpret


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 16, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Definitely. But he did show landing on the exact frame a scene changed as his example. Easy to misinterpret



Because this might have its uses too. Generally you want to be a bit late because the brain has to interpret the changes it has just witnessed and this can take a small, but existent, amount of time. However everything has its uses.

After having done a few videos in the past I discovered it generally just works fine to be 'in the ballpark' with timing and that you don't have to worry about being super precise 99% of the time. And you can think about how to use musical elements to tell the story too. Just like how you can anticipate something in the narrative or the action with an event, you can also anticipate musical material literally with an 'anticipation tone', or similarly, use suspensions, pick-ups, delayed entrances etc etc. There's all sorts of tools you can use to tell a story.


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## fish_hoof (May 16, 2020)

redlester said:


> This is a very naive newbie question no doubt, but I have to ask...
> 
> I have extracted the dialogue/FX as per Paul's instructional video, but am finding that with the fader on that track left at zero it is peaking well into the red at numerous times, and is quite high level throughout.
> 
> I would normally aim to use common gain staging advice and practice, but should I be aiming for a higher level - either in the individual tracks or the final mix - than I normally would for a musical (not to picture) track? Am curious because "turning everything up to eleven" goes against my instincts.



Did you ever get this answered? I didn't watch Pauls video and did things as I normally did and don't have issues with the Dialog and FX peaking. Just curious if you were able to figure this out. 

Personally, I just import the video into my project and get working. Which is what I have done for years unless the dialog is panned one side and temp music panned the other. Then I create two mono tracks to have the control.


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## EBicks (May 16, 2020)

fish_hoof said:


> Hi all! I decided to share my entry. Honestly, all the best to everyone! Win or loose, we all learn something from doing this.




Nice job man! I like the distorted guitars. It's a nice change of pace from a lot of the entries


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## fish_hoof (May 16, 2020)

EBicks said:


> Nice job man! I like the distorted guitars. It's a nice change of pace from a lot of the entries



Thank you! Guitar is my main instrument, so whenever I get the chance to use it, I'll do it. Especially when weird tunings are involved.


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## EBicks (May 16, 2020)

fish_hoof said:


> Thank you! Guitar is my main instrument, so whenever I get the chance to use it, I'll do it. Especially when weird tunings are involved.



I'm in the same boat! Always fun to sneak it in when you can.. Working on my entry now.


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## jononotbono (May 16, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> Here's a tip: if you can get in the groove of the editor's tempo, a lot of the 'hitting things perfectly' will fall right into place. The editors really did an excellent job with this and it made my life pretty easy.
> But you gotta nail that pacing in the first place.



Have you finished yours? Would love to hear it!


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## chillbot (May 16, 2020)

Bernard Duc said:


> It's almost always better to be a least a couple of frames late, sometimes even a whole beat late is better. Being early, even just a couple of frames, is usually bad


This is good advice. I was skimming through this thread and was going to say exactly that but was beaten to it. So... +1?

Most good video editors, who are also editing the music, will naturally "hit" the music 4-5 frames after the cut, and up to a full beat which could be 15-20 frames, depending. It's what we are used to seeing/hearing.

There are some times where hitting the exact video frame with the music is very effective, but never ever hitting it a couple of frames early. So when you are mapping out your tempos and hits always make sure the music reacts to the video and never precedes it.


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## redlester (May 16, 2020)

fish_hoof said:


> Did you ever get this answered? I didn't watch Pauls video and did things as I normally did and don't have issues with the Dialog and FX peaking. Just curious if you were able to figure this out.
> 
> Personally, I just import the video into my project and get working. Which is what I have done for years unless the dialog is panned one side and temp music panned the other. Then I create two mono tracks to have the control.



No Answers yet, no. I did just import it and get working, till I realised that the “normal” levels I was working at meant what I was doing was being drowned out by the FX track in places. I’ve barely started with it yet though so maybe it will become less of an issue once I get further into it.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 17, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Have you finished yours? Would love to hear it!


I'll post it later in the month


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## fish_hoof (May 17, 2020)

redlester said:


> No Answers yet, no. I did just import it and get working, till I realised that the “normal” levels I was working at meant what I was doing was being drowned out by the FX track in places. I’ve barely started with it yet though so maybe it will become less of an issue once I get further into it.



I watched Pauls video and didn't see if there was anything special to do when importing. In any case, what you did was great. Just import that sucker and get going! It's also good you are taking note of the FX. Often times that will be favored over music in a final mix... showing you can write taking all those things into consideration, such as dialog, fx, etc. is a real good thing.


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## stevebarden (May 17, 2020)

I’m a bit late to the party here. I just learned of this competition a few days ago. So here’s my entry.

I have not watched the show so I’m not familiar with the story, the characters, or any other subtext. I’m scoring the scene based solely on my reactions and interpretation of what I’m seeing. 

I also avoided watching anyone else’s entry beforehand so I wouldn’t be influenced in any way.

A side note, I cracked up every time I watch the bit where the girl loads the missile in the non-standard-issued gun, arms it, *then* proceeds to hammer the sun roof with the gun. What could go wrong, right?


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## LamaRose (May 17, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I took the approach of just creating a piece that would give an atmosphere to the entire scene, rather than hitting each point of action directly. Some of it lined up well, some of it didn't. Points I couldn't hit directly with some kind of musical cue I tried to hit _around_, which I think (but don't know) is just as effective for the audience. Some I just left alone- I don't think _everything_ needs to be commented on.
> 
> []




Really like the low-key vibe, but the drums don't quite fit at times - the beat, the mix?

BUT the cue starting where the missile hits its high point through to the explosion and aftermath is picture-perfect... fits like a glove and is something to build around. Keep working it, but keep that particular cue as-is.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 17, 2020)

LamaRose said:


> Really like the low-key vibe, but the drums don't quite fit at times - the beat, the mix?
> 
> BUT the cue starting where the missile hits its high point through to the explosion and aftermath is picture-perfect... fits like a glove and is something to build around. Keep working it, but keep that particular cue as-is.



Thanks for the advice. I'll keep working on it, I don't know if I'll update my entry though. Maybe if I have enough time, there's still a couple weeks to go I suppose.


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## freecham (May 17, 2020)

I can't decide if the sequence needs more drums or not. I only used some for the passage with the motorcycle but maybe it needs some before. For the time being, my submission is like this:


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## robgb (May 17, 2020)

Interesting. Not two hours after I put mine up, WB made a copyright claim. Not a takedown command and no strikes against my channel, only demonetization, but I suspect everyone who posts this sequence is getting the same.


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## Bernard Duc (May 17, 2020)

robgb said:


> Interesting. Not two hours after I put mine up, WB made a copyright claim. Not a takedown command and no strikes against my channel, only demonetization, but I suspect everyone who posts this sequence is getting the same.


It's because you're using copyrighted material (even if you have authorization). Don't worry about it, it's normal and will simply prevent you from monetizing this video on YouTube.


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## pmcrockett (May 17, 2020)

robgb said:


> Interesting. Not two hours after I put mine up, WB made a copyright claim. Not a takedown command and no strikes against my channel, only demonetization, but I suspect everyone who posts this sequence is getting the same.


I haven't uploaded yet, but other people have mentioned this happening. I would be completely unsurprised if HBO YouTube division doesn't even know that HBO someotherdivision is telling people to post this clip to YouTube.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 17, 2020)

robgb said:


> Interesting. Not two hours after I put mine up, WB made a copyright claim. Not a takedown command and no strikes against my channel, only demonetization, but I suspect everyone who posts this sequence is getting the same.



I got a copyright claim before mine was even posted. I'm pretty sure it's automated. Anyway, Paul Thomson mentioned that this would happen in his video about the contest. It's a normal state of affairs for youtube. I have gotten a copyright claim on an unlisted video of me just singing/playing a cover song, in a different key from the original, no backing track or anything, and nothing in the title or description to indicate what the video was.


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## fish_hoof (May 18, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I got a copyright claim before mine was even posted. I'm pretty sure it's automated. Anyway, Paul Thomson mentioned that this would happen in his video about the contest. It's a normal state of affairs for youtube. I have gotten a copyright claim on an unlisted video of me just singing/playing a cover song, in a different key from the original, no backing track or anything, and nothing in the title or description to indicate what the video was.



It's automated. All that stuff has tons of metadata in it. Thats crazy about the unlisted video of you playing the copywriter song. I'm so not familiar with all that back end stuff but to me... its crazy that they somehow pick up perhaps the lyrics you are singing and not necessarily the music. Youtube witchcraft....


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## Wiktoria Zac (May 18, 2020)

I watched some of the works and they are amazing!

Most of all I wanted to have fun with it, so I did it more humorous, with a little "epic rap instrumental" haha  

Good luck everyone!


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## dzilizzi (May 18, 2020)

Okay, it is finished. Not so great, but an interesting learning experience. I think I need more in there in spots, but I was trying very hard not to overdo, since it really doesn't need much. Though, really, there was a part of me that wanted to get Symphobia out and just use animation music, like you would hear in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. But I stopped myself.


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## jaketanner (May 18, 2020)

Does anyone know if I wait until a day or so before posting, and YT or HBO or whoever challenges the video, will it be resolved in time to be seen for the contest? Are entries being removed by YT, or just demonetized?


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## Yogevs (May 19, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Does anyone know if I wait until a day or so before posting, and YT or HBO or whoever challenges the video, will it be resolved in time to be seen for the contest? Are entries being removed by YT, or just demonetized?



No entries are removed


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## FuzyDunlop (May 19, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Does anyone know if I wait until a day or so before posting, and YT or HBO or whoever challenges the video, will it be resolved in time to be seen for the contest? Are entries being removed by YT, or just demonetized?


There's nothing to resolve. You're using someone else's copyrighted material. A copyright claim just prevents your video from being monetized (but I believe ads can still appear, with the revenue going to the copyright owner). It will still appear on youtube, nothing is taken down, and it's not a strike against your channel (that would only happen if you disputed it and were found to be wrongly using copyrighted material- three strikes and your channel is removed from youtube).


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## dzilizzi (May 19, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Does anyone know if I wait until a day or so before posting, and YT or HBO or whoever challenges the video, will it be resolved in time to be seen for the contest? Are entries being removed by YT, or just demonetized?


Just demonetized. HBO allowed use of the video so they won't take it down.


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## EBicks (May 19, 2020)

i know you guys have heard a hundred of these by now, but I just finished mine last night. I tried to sneak in some guitars and my P Bass for fun. This is one of my first times scoring to picture, so I mainly just did it for the experience. Any insight you guys could share if you have a few minutes would be appreciated!


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## MarcHedenberg (May 19, 2020)

The one image that inspires me when I get writer's block while scoring.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 19, 2020)

EBicks said:


> i know you guys have heard a hundred of these by now, but I just finished mine last night. I tried to sneak in some guitars and my P Bass for fun. This is one of my first times scoring to picture, so I mainly just did it for the experience. Any insight you guys could share if you have a few minutes would be appreciated!




I might provide some positive and negative feedback, if you'll allow me.
The positive stuff will hopefully encourage you (considering this is your first time writing to picture) and the negative stuff would hopefully be interpreted as criticism you could make use of to improve yourself should you want to.

The good:
-I like how you cut the sound when she says "we need distance" in the beginning. It added emphasis for when we return to the chase. Haven't seen anyone do this yet and it was very effective.
-So many people play (score) the scene with the homing-grenade zeroing in, and I haven't liked _any_ of them since I personally think the sound effects (which the sound guys dedicated so much time to) needed room to breathe, _until_ I saw yours. It was the first one I thought was pulled off well, and the shepard-tone / riser sound you use seems to compliment the sfx while the beefy low drums stay the hell out of the way. Well done.
-The chase music starting at 0:58 with the drums and fx guitar pulses fits quite well to the action.

The not-so-good:
-Most of the 'tone' of the music seems off, but that is just my personal taste. I found both the guitar theme material and the orchestral material to be too bright and uplifting, as if they had already won the chase / fight before it really began. This is mostly a consideration of harmony. Once again that sequence 0:58-1:16 has the right tone, and from there up until 1:27 is still acceptable. After that you lose me again.
-I felt the intro could use more building tension, more vamping and rising leading up into the chase themes, but I feel this way because that's how I approached it.
-I found the second time you cut the music when she says "sharp left, now" to not be effective. It would have been (in my opinion) most effective to just have it in the intro part (the "we need distance"), and then avoid breaking the pace again.

I've mostly been refraining from 'reviewing' others entries, as who the hell am I to judge another person's art. But when I heard yours there were moments that showed to me some gears were definitely turning, and maybe you can find something useful to take away between my harsh advice and a few compliments.


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## Laddy (May 19, 2020)

I'm also done with mine. If anyone has any feeedback, I'd appreciate it


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 19, 2020)

Laddy said:


> I'm also done with mine. If anyone has any feeedback, I'd appreciate it




The steel-drum thing is fucking awesome.

I could write more but then I'm going to get stuck trying to give everyone feedback :D


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## Laddy (May 19, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> The steel-drum thing is fucking awesome.
> 
> I could write more but then I'm going to get stuck trying to give everyone feedback :D


Thanks  I completely understand!


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## EBicks (May 19, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I might provide some positive and negative feedback, if you'll allow me.
> The positive stuff will hopefully encourage you (considering this is your first time writing to picture) and the negative stuff would hopefully be interpreted as criticism you could make use of to improve yourself should you want to.
> 
> The good:
> ...



Thanks a lot for taking the time to listen and write this Karl! I really appreciate the insight. Was a lot of fun to do it and I’ve learned a lot for sure


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## fish_hoof (May 19, 2020)

I refrained from watching entries before finishing mine, but now that I am done, it's amazing to see how many different styles can be composed on one 4 minute scene. So awesome guys!


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## jononotbono (May 19, 2020)

Yeah it’s definitely a journey watching and listening to so many different approaches!


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## Pincel (May 19, 2020)

MarcHedenberg said:


> The one image that inspires me when I get writer's block while scoring.



Dude, it worked for me too! Thanks!


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## Pincel (May 19, 2020)

EBicks said:


> i know you guys have heard a hundred of these by now, but I just finished mine last night. I tried to sneak in some guitars and my P Bass for fun. This is one of my first times scoring to picture, so I mainly just did it for the experience. Any insight you guys could share if you have a few minutes would be appreciated!




Hey, pretty cool! I dig it, sounds great and it's different from most entries that I've heard, and that's a plus for me. I don't want to knock any effort down by any means, but I really don't need to hear another TDK rip-off, thank you. No matter how well produced it may be. 

I have to agree with Karl though, in the sense that I feel that sometimes the 'tone' seems a bit off, maybe too triumphant/optimistic towards the middle/end, but as a piece of music I really like it. Take this with a grain of salt of course, because what do I know? 

I'm almost finished with mine, and it's funny because even though I took a different approach, I made a lot of the same 'spotting' decisions as you did, some of which I'm not finding often in other entries, so that's cool.


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## Gene Pool (May 20, 2020)

CatOrchestra said:


> Is it me or does this car chase scene feel slow as in that they are not driving particularly fast?



Yes. It's poorly done. No kinetic energy. There are tried and true tricks directors and editors do to get a feeling of speed, inertia, tension, danger, et cetera, and this scene isn't doing them.

Slow-moving cars. Slow-moving backgrounds. Look at the low shot of Aaron Paul with the lights above him shining through the transparent roof of the car. They go by really slowly. Like 30 mph slowly. Lots of missed speed cues throughout.

You're supposed to have exterior car-mounted cameras, some at pavement view. Show the street whizzing by. Tight shots with speed and inertia cues. You show those things a lot better with angles perpendicular to the direction of travel so that the stationary part of the scene blurs horizontally. Also a few cuts with a locked down camera and the cars blurring past. Head-on shots don't work as well except for a gear shift that plunges the car forward while the camera moves forward to meet it.

Are all those guns loaded with blanks? Not a single edit showing bullet contact. No series of rounds making a dotted line on any vehicle, ripping through the metal? Do West World guns eject shells? Do windows break? It's comical that hundreds of rounds were spent for the sole purpose of having gunfire with no consequence. Nothing tactile, physical.

And the vehicles themselves are too far apart. They should be clustered. Framing oughta be tighter. No whip zooms? I didn't see any off-street driving or running into things. Where's the impact? I don't watch the show, but I guess a computer is driving the cars. Algorithms are not exciting. Neither are unemotional robots. And if you're not going to have cars with awesome engine sounds, well...


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## Gene Pool (May 20, 2020)

Speaking of bullets, I wonder if anyone will use the speed of the automatic firing as 16th notes for a tempo source. I don't know what they used for the movie, but real world auto is usually about 10 rounds a second.

And maybe when the guy says, “I think he's changing genres,” the score should actually change genres. Switch to country & western, since it's _Westworld_. Go dobro, banjo, fiddle and bass harmonica. They'll love that!


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 20, 2020)

Gene Pool said:


> And maybe when the guy says, “I think he's changing genres,” the score should actually change genres. Switch to country & western, since it's _Westworld_. Go dobro, banjo, fiddle and bass harmonica. They'll love that!



This was one of my early thoughts, but since we never see from Aaron's point of view, it would seem a bit too incongruous since nothing really changes in the scene at that point. I was expecting the visuals, edit etc to change to reflect how he experiences the action, but nothing happened. Maybe I need to watch Series 3 to 'get it'...

As for the chase energy/speed - that's a brilliant example of how scores are often used to problem-solve. I imagined the brief for this could have been '_the energy we wanted didn't really come across in the edit - any chance you can pump it up and make the whole thing a bit more intense?'_


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## Eptesicus (May 20, 2020)

Gene Pool said:


> Speaking of bullets, I wonder if anyone will use the speed of the automatic firing as 16th notes for a tempo source. I don't know what they used for the movie, but real world auto is usually about 10 rounds a second.
> 
> And maybe when the guy says, “I think he's changing genres,” the score should actually change genres. Switch to country & western, since it's _Westworld_. Go dobro, banjo, fiddle and bass harmonica. They'll love that!



On mine, somehow in one section the music syncs perfectly with the bullets hitting their car. Sounds quite cool but was complete luck.


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## pmcrockett (May 20, 2020)

Gene Pool said:


> Speaking of bullets, I wonder if anyone will use the speed of the automatic firing as 16th notes for a tempo source. I don't know what they used for the movie, but real world auto is usually about 10 rounds a second.
> 
> And maybe when the guy says, “I think he's changing genres,” the score should actually change genres. Switch to country & western, since it's _Westworld_. Go dobro, banjo, fiddle and bass harmonica. They'll love that!


Basing tempo on the machine gun fire occurred to me, too, but not until after I was finished writing, so I didn't do anything with it.


Richard Wilkinson said:


> This was one of my early thoughts, but since we never see from Aaron's point of view, it would seem a bit too incongruous since nothing really changes in the scene at that point. I was expecting the visuals, edit etc to change to reflect how he experiences the action, but nothing happened. Maybe I need to watch Series 3 to 'get it'...
> 
> As for the chase energy/speed - that's a brilliant example of how scores are often used to problem-solve. I imagined the brief for this could have been '_the energy we wanted didn't really come across in the edit - any chance you can pump it up and make the whole thing a bit more intense?'_



It's hard to deal with the idea of a genre change for exactly the reasons you mention. The handful of entries I've seen that go all in on it are extremely amusing, but they also come across as very gimmicky and/or showboating because there's very little in the scene itself to suggest a genre change. I scored the change with two contrasting approaches that would each in themselves be appropriate for the scene (strings with orchestral percussion changing to electronic with taiko-like drums), and even that may be hitting the switch too hard.

IMO, the original use of Ride of the Valkyries works mostly because of that music's existing associations with war movies and because the video is edited to follow the familiar big points in the music, which makes it seem like the music/genre is driving the scene rather than responding to the scene. And that would be extremely difficult to pull off with an original score like the contest asks for.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 20, 2020)

Gene Pool said:


> Yes. It's poorly done. No kinetic energy. There are tried and true tricks directors and editors do to get a feeling of speed, inertia, tension, danger, et cetera, and this scene isn't doing them.



I honestly agree with everything you said, I found the scene extremely boring and tedious to watch (I honestly thought "this show sucks" several times while I was scoring it and I have never even watched the show). The relative lack of energy in the visuals probably explains why I came up with such a slow piece of music.


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## Eptesicus (May 20, 2020)

pmcrockett said:


> Basing tempo on the machine gun fire occurred to me, too, but not until after I was finished writing, so I didn't do anything with it.
> 
> 
> It's hard to deal with the idea of a genre change for exactly the reasons you mention. The handful of entries I've seen that go all in on it are extremely amusing, but they also come across as very gimmicky and/or showboating because there's very little in the scene itself to suggest a genre change. I scored the change with two contrasting approaches that would each in themselves be appropriate for the scene (strings with orchestral percussion changing to electronic with taiko-like drums), and even that may be hitting the switch too hard.
> ...



I _think_ i may have nailed something that works in this regard. It is a risk though.


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## Gene Pool (May 20, 2020)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> As for the chase energy/speed - that's a brilliant example of how scores are often used to problem-solve. I imagined the brief for this could have been '_the energy we wanted didn't really come across in the edit - any chance you can pump it up and make the whole thing a bit more intense?'_



And the danger there is that the music outruns the scene. Like using a tempo of 168 to score senior citizens racing to the cafeteria on their electric wheelchairs because there's a shortage of green jello.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 20, 2020)

There are certain tempi that work very well with this edit. It's a really excellently done chase sequence and is begging for a real AAA action score.

However I am expecting the #1 contest winner to go full-on Dark Synthwave and they're going to do it really well. I'm thinking something like Carpenter Brut's _Looking for Tracy Tzu_, which works fairly well just right out of the box. If I wrote synth music any more I'd have gone this route, but I lean more on orchestral elements these days. So I approached it with the tools I have, and I approached it with the mindset of "if this was a blockbuster action sequence, and I paid $15 to watch this in the theatres, what do I expect to hear?"
(hint: it isn't "trailer braams" and "trailer ostinati.")

Will share in a few days. Biding my extra time to do any polishing touches, then give it another listen the next day, then polish if necessary. Some of us have the time so why not.


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## Eptesicus (May 20, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> There are certain tempi that work very well with this edit. It's a really excellently done chase sequence and is begging for a real AAA action score.
> 
> However I am expecting the #1 contest winner to go full-on Dark Synthwave and they're going to do it really well. If I wrote synth music any more I'd have gone this route, but I lean more on orchestral elements these days. So I approached it with the tools I have, and I approached it with the mindset of "if this was a movie action scene, and I paid $15 to watch this in the theatres, what do I expect to hear?"
> (hint: it isn't "trailer braams" and "trailer ostinati.")
> ...



Part of me wonders if they are looking for more than just dark synths.

That is what the soundtrack on it already is (essentially).


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 20, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Part of me wonders if they are looking for more than just dark synths.
> 
> That is what the soundtrack on it already is (essentially).


I meant the genre (Dark Synthwave, its like dark dance music) also editted my old post with the title of a track in that genre. Hope that clears things up


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## Eptesicus (May 20, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I meant the genre (Dark Synthwave, its like dark dance music) also editted my old post with the title of a track in that genre. Hope that clears things up



Oh I see.

I still think they are looking for a genre change. There is a massive moment when he is tripping out and the whole screen is up on his face. This also happens at the end.

I think if you just continue in the same style or don't acknowledge that in any meaningful way after that you are out of contention.


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## pmcrockett (May 20, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I meant the genre (Dark Synthwave, its like dark dance music) also editted my old post with the title of a track in that genre. Hope that clears things up


Not gonna lie, my first impulse was to just score the entire thing with vaporwave.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 20, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Oh I see.
> 
> I still think they are looking for a genre change. There is a massive moment when he is tripping out and the whole screen is up on his face. This also happens at the end.
> 
> I think if you just continue in the same style or don't acknowledge that in any meaningful way after that you are out of contention.



I think the scene works better with only a nod towards the drug's effects, and then the rest of it keeps the same tone. What's wrong with keeping the perspective the same for the audience? You don't have to get into the head of every character in a film; so in this case, I don't think you need to get into the head of Caleb's drug trip. Just some acknowledgement should be enough.

This is subjective and is based entirely on what you, as a composer, want to 'play to.' If this were an actual contract for either of us, we'd have to do what the director would say, and if he said "I'm going to place Valkyries here" then so be it - there's his genre change. But if he leaves it to us or doesn't stipulate that he wants any genre change in the music in the first place, then we as composers are left to decide how we want to tell the story and what the musical perspective is going to be / focus on. I don't think this competition is going to _require_ some massive genre change to win, I think they will assess whether the music works or not for the entire sequence through whatever means are employed.

p.s. what I did during the initial trip sequence was create a textural shift from emphasis on acoustic instruments to emphasis on synthesized instruments. I then returned after it. This is what I would consider more of a 'nod' rather than now switching total gears and basically having a different song / piece for the rest of the chase.


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## Eptesicus (May 20, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I think the scene works better with only a nod towards the drug's effects, and then the rest of it keeps the same tone. What's wrong with keeping the perspective the same for the audience? You don't have to get into the head of every character in a film; so in this case, I don't think you need to get into the head of Caleb's drug trip. Just some acknowledgement should be enough.
> 
> This is subjective and is based entirely on what you, as a composer, want to 'play to.' If this were an actual contract for either of us, we'd have to do what the director would say, and if he said "I'm going to place Valkyries here" then so be it - there's his genre change. But if he leaves it to us or doesn't stipulate that he wants any genre change in the music in the first place, then we as composers are left to decide how we want to tell the story and what the musical perspective is going to be / focus on. I don't think this competition is going to _require_ some massive genre change to win, I think they will assess whether the music works or not for the entire sequence through whatever means are employed.
> 
> p.s. what I did during the initial trip sequence was create a textural shift from emphasis on acoustic instruments to emphasis on synthesized instruments. I then returned after it. This is what I would consider more of a 'nod' rather than now switching total gears and basically having a different song / piece for the rest of the chase.



You could be right.

I guess we can only speculate as to what the judges are looking for and what their judging criteria will be!


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## fish_hoof (May 20, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> This is subjective and is based entirely on what you, as a composer, want to 'play to.'



Totally agree. At the end of the day, we get to write what we really want to write for this. Which is awesome! I think as long as we are proud of what we did and learned something new, then job well done. I honestly would love to win and am proud of what I did, but like you said, it's so subjective. Everyone on here has done some fantastic work.


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## TheRealPeeWee (May 20, 2020)

I really enjoyed working on this. Here is my take on it!


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## gussunkri (May 20, 2020)

TheRealPeeWee said:


> I really enjoyed working on this. Here is my take on it!



Nice work! While there are other entries which I have enjoyed more on a purely musical level (as in, I close my eyes and just listen to the music), this one actually felt like it was working for the scene better than most (or all?) other entires that I've listened to so far. Again, nice work!

(Though, unfortunately, I am a complete amateur so my praise and my opinions ought to be taken with some grains of salt.)


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## Bernard Duc (May 20, 2020)

pmcrockett said:


> IMO, the original use of Ride of the Valkyries works mostly because of that music's existing associations with war movies and because the video is edited to follow the familiar big points in the music, which makes it seem like the music/genre is driving the scene rather than responding to the scene. And that would be extremely difficult to pull off with an original score like the contest asks for.


I actually thought the Ride of the Valkyries didn't work past the first seconds. I mean, there is absolutely nothing visually or in the editing rhythm, or in the acting that makes me think of Apocalypse now. For it to work they should have committed more.


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## TheRealPeeWee (May 20, 2020)

gussunkri said:


> Nice work! While there are other entries which I have enjoyed more on a purely musical level (as in, I close my eyes and just listen to the music), this one actually felt like it was working for the scene better than most (or all?) other entires that I've listened to so far. Again, nice work!
> 
> (Though, unfortunately, I am a complete amateur so my praise and my opinions ought to be taken with some grains of salt.)


Thank you!


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## Michael Stibor (May 20, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Oh I see.
> 
> I still think they are looking for a genre change. There is a massive moment when he is tripping out and the whole screen is up on his face. This also happens at the end.
> 
> I think if you just continue in the same style or don't acknowledge that in any meaningful way after that you are out of contention.


That was my thinking initially as well, but now I’m not so sure it’s the dealbreaker I thought it was. Having said that, I haven’t seen an entry yet that bypassed the whole ‘genre’ aspect that didn’t bore me after 90 seconds.

Granted, I’ve only watched probably 10% of all the entries that are out. But not even one of them stood out to me as being anything more than well produced action music.

Maybe I’m seeing (hearing?) something that’s not there but the whole scene seems almost playful to me. I don’t know the show though so I can’t really say, but I don’t think it’s wrong to forgo the minor key action cliches in lieu of something a little more experimental. If I was judging, I’d personally prefer an entry that at least _attempted_ to explore a different style than to hear another unmemorable action cue.


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## visiblenoise (May 20, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Maybe I’m seeing (hearing?) something that’s not there but the whole scene seems almost playful to me.


Very diplomatic way of saying that it was a boring/unconvincing chase scene.

(I don't mean to put words in your mouth, this is what I think, heh)


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## edgar_hsu (May 20, 2020)

TheRealPeeWee said:


> I really enjoyed working on this. Here is my take on it!



It’s just my two cents. This work has a good understanding of the Westworld sounds. Nice balance of many details of the picture and audio dynamics. I especially like the strings lines after 3:20, a simple but very symbolic phrase similars to the theme style. Love this re-score.


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## Defcon (May 21, 2020)

Hi everybody!
This is my first post though I've been following the forums for a while. I'm just an amateur composer who spends part of his spare time in making some music for fun. I would like to share with you my score for the contest. Apart of evident problems of volume and EQ ( i'm still having problems to mix music properly because my complete ignorance about it), I know that the music is not the best to fit in with the real emotions of this scene, but i had a lot of fun playing and twisiting a bit the emotions, abandoning the dark and thrilling theme of this scene, for something a bit less dramatic, more epic and if you allow me, with a pinch of humor. A humble tribute to the 80's adventure films scores.

Well, i have a question for BBCSO Pro owners. I've struggled a lot with the trumpets to get a sharpest and metallic sound, but I didn't make it. I tried to use the "Long Cuivre" articulation with different mic positions, but i can't achieve this characteristic sharp sound in high tones. The closest thing are the short articulations, but sometimes aren't enough. Is there anything to fix it?
Thanks and greetings from Barcelona.


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## Michael Stibor (May 21, 2020)

Defcon said:


> Hi everybody!
> This is my first post though I've been following the forums for a while. I'm just an amateur compositor who spends part of his spare time in making some music for fun. I would like to share with you my score for the contest. Apart of evident problems of volume and EQ ( i'm still having problems to mix music properly because my complete ignorance about it), I know that the music is not the best to fit in with the real emotions of this scene, but i had a lot of fun playing and twisiting a bit the emotions, abandoning the dark and thrilling theme of this scene, for something a bit less dramatic, more epic and if you allow me, with a pinch of humor. A humble tribute to the 80's adventure films scores.
> 
> Well, i have a question for BBCSO Pro owners. I've struggled a lot with the trumpets to get a sharpest and metallic sound, but I didn't make it. I tried to use the "Long Cuivre" articulation with different mic positions, but i can't achieve this characteristic sharp sound in high tones. The closest thing are the short articulations, but sometimes aren't enough. Is there anything to fix it?
> Thanks and greetings from Barcelona.



Hey, I can’t comment on the trumpet thing, but I just wanted to tell you that I really like your submission. Thank you for being _original_. This stands out.

I had two quick notes though. The first is where you started the music. I think it either needs to start before or immediately after they start shooting. Otherwise it just sounds like musical gunfire just happened.
The other is that in many places the music is just too loud.
But overall I love it. It’s my favourite one yet.


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## Defcon (May 21, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Hey, I can’t comment on the trumpet thing, but I just wanted to tell you that I really like your submission. Thank you for being _original_. This stands out.
> 
> I had two quick notes though. The first is where you started the music. I think it either needs to start before or immediately after they start shooting. Otherwise it just sounds like musical gunfire just happened.
> The other is that in many places the music is just too loud.
> But overall I love it. It’s my favourite one yet.



Hi Mike, Thank you very much for your comments and suggestions. I appreciate them a lot. And if in a future threre's another opportunity to make another score I'll take them in consideration.Thank you!


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## BoBBoLoVe (May 21, 2020)

Hello everyone!

My first post here on the forum although I have lurked around for a few month now. Really cool to see/hear all the different takes on this clip, sure is a lot of talent on this forum! I decided to have a go as well after hearing all the awesome work others have done.

Been playing guitar for many years but just got into the world of "samples" and this is my first time ever scoring music to a video, it sure was fun although there is much room for improvement.



/BoBBo


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## fish_hoof (May 21, 2020)

BoBBoLoVe said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> My first post here on the forum although I have lurked around for a few month now. Really cool to see/hear all the different takes on this clip, sure is a lot of talent on this forum! I decided to have a go as well after hearing all the awesome work others have done.
> 
> ...




Really unique, I really loved how you brought in the drum groove at 0:15-0:30. Would love to hear more of that in the the video but pushing towards a climax.


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Hey, I can’t comment on the trumpet thing, but I just wanted to tell you that I really like your submission. Thank you for being _original_. This stands out.
> 
> I had two quick notes though. The first is where you started the music. I think it either needs to start before or immediately after they start shooting. Otherwise it just sounds like musical gunfire just happened.
> The other is that in many places the music is just too loud.
> But overall I love it. It’s my favourite one yet.


Is this 100% BBCSO?


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 21, 2020)

It is incredible to see that, even now, in the later stages of the competition, there are nearly 50 new entries a day if not more.

I've read how some people think they're going to be judging such an immense amount of clips; I think it's probably something like...
Interns watch 5s long snippets from 3-4 locations within the picture to get a very brief look at whether or not the music is working or not.
If anything catches their eye, they either watch slightly more, or watch the whole thing; and/or the entry gets moved to a higher-up level of category where someone else will assess it.
There is probably going to be something like 100 entries out of all the thousands that will all be ranging from very good to absolute excellence. Amongst these entries they will probably begin to weed out some of them for having weaknesses in locations. The final judgements will no doubt be very difficult to make, as amongst all of these the level of excellence will be sublime.

Of course, it would be nice to know if your entry still made it high up but didn't make top 6. Alas, it's unlikely they will release such information.


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> It is incredible to see that, even now, in the later stages of the competition, there are nearly 50 new entries a day if not more


I would suspect that last minute there will be thousands of entries. I’m take my my time and will be one of them.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I would suspect that last minute there will be thousands of entries. I’m take my my time and will be one of them.



Yea, me as well. I mean, we got the time, so why not.
There's been about 2-3 entries I've seen so far that are really good, but I've probably only watched 30 entries, and that's not even 1 day's worth. Though, to be fair, the great ones had a lot of views, and that's probably assisted by them having a large following of fans prior to the competition


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## jaketanner (May 21, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> Yea, me as well. I mean, we got the time, so why not.


Exactly. Even if I were to have finished it within a day, I wouldn’t post it until the end anyway.


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## toomanynotes (May 21, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Exactly. Even if I were to have finished it within a day, I wouldn’t post it until the end anyway.


 Just a heads up fellas..Don't waste your time, I'm gonna win this. Cheers


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## Michael Stibor (May 21, 2020)

Just curious, when watching these clips, how long does it take you all to decide Yay or Nay?

For me it depends. If I find the music doesn’t work in the first 15-20 seconds, I’m done. However, if it does, even if I personally don’t like it musically, as long as it works thematically, I’ll stick around until after the “genre switching” part.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 21, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Just curious, when watching these clips, how long does it take you all to decide Yay or Nay?
> 
> For me it depends. If I find the music doesn’t work in the first 15-20 seconds, I’m done. However, if it does, even if I personally don’t like it musically, as long as it works thematically, I’ll stick around until after the “genre switching” part.



Me too, I even heard one that was 100% Spaghetti Western which was cool. However, I stop it as soon as I hear music that totally doesn't fit; for some reason I'm hearing a lot tracks that sound like they came out of a Disney movie or something, with no sense of urgency or energy. But who am I to judge? I went with more of an upbeat, futuristic soundtrack. It will be interesting to hear the winning entries.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 21, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> Though, to be fair, the great ones had a lot of views,



I dunno, I saw a few that were not that great IMO.


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## Michael Stibor (May 21, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Me too, I even heard one that was 100% Spaghetti Western which was cool. However, I stop it as soon as I hear music that totally doesn't fit; for some reason I'm hearing a lot tracks that sound like they came out of a Disney movie or something, with no sense of urgency or energy. But who am I to judge? I went with more of an upbeat, futuristic soundtrack. It will be interesting to hear the winning entries.


I haven’t completed mine yet, but mine goes back and forth between major and minor keys. In fact for the reasons you mentioned (lack of urgency, etc) I’m editing it a bit to tone down the major key elements. I think it’s funny to have major key action scenes (I keep thinking of that epic Lone Ranger ending) but it needs to _work_ too.


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## pmcrockett (May 21, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Just curious, when watching these clips, how long does it take you all to decide Yay or Nay?
> 
> For me it depends. If I find the music doesn’t work in the first 15-20 seconds, I’m done. However, if it does, even if I personally don’t like it musically, as long as it works thematically, I’ll stick around until after the “genre switching” part.



The music either needs to start immediately after the gunfire, or if it starts before, needs to react to the gunfire in some way. If it doesn't do either of those things, I anticipate a rough listening experience.



mikefrommontreal said:


> I haven’t completed mine yet, but mine goes back and forth between major and minor keys. In fact for the reasons you mentioned (lack of urgency, etc) I’m editing it a bit to tone down the major key elements. I think it’s funny to have major key action scenes (I keep thinking of that epic Lone Ranger ending) but it needs to _work_ too.


Octatonic scales tend to go well with action scenes.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 21, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I dunno, I saw a few that were not that great IMO.



Yea, a couple of the big ones were just trailer braams and trailer ostinati... but not all of them.
Actually this is one of my favourites so far:




pmcrockett said:


> Octatonic scales tend to go well with action scenes.



Spot on. And the half-step whole-step pattern tends to be more popular lately than the other form.


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## toomanynotes (May 21, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Just curious, when watching these clips, how long does it take you all to decide Yay or Nay?
> 
> For me it depends. If I find the music doesn’t work in the first 15-20 seconds, I’m done. However, if it does, even if I personally don’t like it musically, as long as it works thematically, I’ll stick around until after the “genre switching” part.


As soon as I hear a thunderous percussive hit in the first 10 secs.. I'm out baby!


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## Michael Stibor (May 21, 2020)

pmcrockett said:


> The music either needs to start immediately after the gunfire, or if it starts before, needs to react to the gunfire in some way. If it doesn't do either of those things, I anticipate a rough listening experience.
> 
> 
> Octatonic scales tend to go well with action scenes.


Exactly. You’ve lost me if you haven’t started the music right away like in the original clip, or have had the music reacted to the gunfire.


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## Dr.Quest (May 21, 2020)

The ones I've watched on this thread for the most part just have no surprises. Good action cues but kind of interchangeable. Nice stuff but... some I have a hard time following to the end. No real hook to define them with personality. Just my opinion of course.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 21, 2020)

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that none of the people going on about what _other people_ are doing wrong have posted their own entries.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 21, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I'm sure it's just a coincidence that none of the people going on about what _other people_ are doing wrong have posted their own entries.



If I might make a prediction, I think you will see more truly energetic entries later in the month. And I have a reason to believe this to be very likely.


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## Dr.Quest (May 21, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I'm sure it's just a coincidence that none of the people going on about what _other people_ are doing wrong have posted their own entries.


I can't find a new original path for myself. I want to keep heading down that action cue path but I think it wants more. It's not that I am not going to use it for practice, I am but unless I come up with something that has a spark I doubt I will enter. Just to be clear - these entries are all quite good, but if I was listening to this video over and over with different entries, I would really want something to grab me by the throat. Don't you think? There are going to be lots of entries!


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## CT (May 21, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Exactly. You’ve lost me if you haven’t started the music right away like in the original clip, or have had the music reacted to the gunfire.



Couldn't disagree with this more. The majority I watched early on (haven't been paying attention since) all seemed to come in far too soon.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 21, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> I can't find a new original path for myself. I want to keep heading down that action cue path but I think it wants more. It's not that I am not going to use it for practice, I am but unless I come up with something that has a spark I doubt I will enter. Just to be clear - these entries are all quite good, but if I was listening to this video over and over with different entries, I would really want something to grab me by the throat. Don't you think? There are going to be lots of entries!



I agree with you, and by no means do I feel like my entry was incredibly inspired... but I had nothing to lose by entering so why not? I personally haven't found any entries that are to my tastes either, but I think what that reveals is that my tastes are so far removed from most other composers'.


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## Michael Stibor (May 21, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I'm sure it's just a coincidence that none of the people going on about what _other people_ are doing wrong have posted their own entries.


I can only speak for myself of course, but I’m not looking at this as a contest, as much as a study in spotting and composing to picture. And the culture surrounding this Westworld thing has been for the most part, quite communal.

Any thoughts I make are in the interest of sharing ideas and positive criticism. The only global negative point that I’d make is that many entries sound the same. But on an individual basis I haven’t found many (less than 1%) that I would actually consider poorly written or executed. And for those, I would keep those opinions to myself unless feedback was requested. And even then I’d like to think I have some tact.

Most of the people here doing this contest are here to learn (myself included) so I personally do not feel there is a competitive vibe to anyone’s comments. Maybe that’s naive to think, but that’s how I feel. And I’m certain that when I eventually get off my ass and finish mine that it will be subject to the same (hopefully positive) criticism as I’ve given to others. In fact if it’s not, I’ll be disappointed. Because A) after all this work, I want it to be heard, and B) I entered this as a learning opportunity, not to win a contest (in fact I keep forgetting that there’s a prize).


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## Michael Stibor (May 21, 2020)

miket said:


> Couldn't disagree with this more. The majority I watched early on (haven't been paying attention since) all seemed to come in far too soon.


Well what do you mean to soon? I mean Ramin’s piece starts right away as well.


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## CT (May 21, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Well what do you mean to soon? I mean Ramin’s piece starts right away as well.



I don't know how the original worked. Didn't look. But based on the scene we were given in isolation, the most natural entry point for music feels much later to me than it apparently does for most other people.


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## Michael Stibor (May 21, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> I can't find a new original path for myself. I want to keep heading down that action cue path but I think it wants more. It's not that I am not going to use it for practice, I am but unless I come up with something that has a spark I doubt I will enter. Just to be clear - these entries are all quite good, but if I was listening to this video over and over with different entries, I would really want something to grab me by the throat. Don't you think? There are going to be lots of entries!


That’s how I feel as well. What the scene calls for is probably basic action music. But that doesn’t seem very fun to me, so I’m going a different direction. Even if it means I’ll “lose” the contest.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 21, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> The only global negative point that I’d make is that many entries sound the same.



Well, we are all scoring the same scene. I've actually been surprised at the variety I've heard so far. Yeah, there are a lot of 'action cues,' but... it's an action scene. Most of the entries sound like the kind of music that I assume you'd be asked to write if you had the job of scoring this show. You could write anything, but the point of the contest is to score the film, not write your most original and creative masterpiece. If your goal is to win, well then maybe some of the more off-the-wall entries will get more notice, but who knows? What are we really being judged on?

Edit: and by the way I want to mention that I appreciate the feedback I've gotten so far personally and don't feel like anyone in this thread has been negative.


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## Michael Stibor (May 21, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> Well, we are all scoring the same scene. I've actually been surprised at the variety I've heard so far. Yeah, there are a lot of 'action cues,' but... it's an action scene. Most of the entries sound like the kind of music that I assume you'd be asked to write if you had the job of scoring this show. You could write anything, but the point of the contest is to score the film, not write your most original and creative masterpiece.



It’s a fair point, and I did mention previously that action music is likely what would fit the scene the best. But I don’t know how you’d separate one from the other in terms of the actual contest. I know we’re all scoring the same scene, but then how do you stand out? Score it like it “should” be scored (action style cue) or go out on a limb and do something ‘weird’ which might just come across as weird, lol. I think the people who are going to win are the people who find that balance.


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## Bernard Duc (May 21, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> You could write anything, but the point of the contest is to score the film, not write your most original and creative masterpiece. If your goal is to win, well then maybe some of the more off-the-wall entries will get more notice, but who knows? What are we really being judged on?



Competitions don't work at all like real gigs. I'm pretty sure that the winning entry will have a unique approach while also working flawlessly.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 21, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I'm sure it's just a coincidence that none of the people going on about what _other people_ are doing wrong have posted their own entries.



It’s all observation and opinion. I’ve read a lot of great constructive criticism so far.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 21, 2020)

miket said:


> I don't know how the original worked. Didn't look. But based on the scene we were given in isolation, the most natural entry point for music feels much later to me than it apparently does for most other people.



When did you come in? I chose to come in with some actual 'music' about a half a second after the first bullets strike the glass. This is the first marker in the whole clip that shows something sudden and shocking has occurred, and makes for a natural point to telegraph to the audience the emotional experience you want them to feel.

If I was taking a very minimalistic approach to scoring this chase I would still use it as a moment to slightly change the intensity, as well.


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## David Kudell (May 21, 2020)

I humbly submit my entry! My take on Caleb's genre switch was to enter the world of a video game with 8-bit music and sound. I had a blast with this melody and creating fun variations building up to the final climax. 

This was such a great experience. Thanks to everyone involved for putting on this competition. Thanks for listening!


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 21, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I humbly submit my entry! My take on Caleb's genre switch was to enter the world of a video game with 8-bit music and sound. I had a blast with this melody and creating fun variations building up to the final climax.
> 
> This was such a great experience. Thanks to everyone involved for putting on this competition. Thanks for listening!




That was thoroughly enjoyable.


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## Cheezus (May 21, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I humbly submit my entry! My take on Caleb's genre switch was to enter the world of a video game with 8-bit music and sound. I had a blast with this melody and creating fun variations building up to the final climax.
> 
> This was such a great experience. Thanks to everyone involved for putting on this competition. Thanks for listening!



This one's great, the sound effects really sell it. The orchestra sounds excellent too.


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## Michael Stibor (May 21, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I humbly submit my entry! My take on Caleb's genre switch was to enter the world of a video game with 8-bit music and sound. I had a blast with this melody and creating fun variations building up to the final climax.
> 
> This was such a great experience. Thanks to everyone involved for putting on this competition. Thanks for listening!




Definitely one of my favourites. Great job! Seems like you had a lot of fun making this. Is it me or does the dialog track sounds different though?


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## Pincel (May 21, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I humbly submit my entry! My take on Caleb's genre switch was to enter the world of a video game with 8-bit music and sound. I had a blast with this melody and creating fun variations building up to the final climax.
> 
> This was such a great experience. Thanks to everyone involved for putting on this competition. Thanks for listening!




That's so cool dude!

I'm not sure if I like it as a score for the scene honestly, but as a piece of music it's really fuckin' cool and well executed! Congrats for taking the chance to be truly original. :D


P.S.: The fun you must have had while doing this is almost palpable! Really great stuff.


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## David Kudell (May 21, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Definitely one of my favourites. Great job! Seems like you had a lot of fun making this. Is it me or does the dialog track sounds different though?


Thanks!! Yes I did have a lot of fun! I really enjoyed the drum parts, and expanding on the 8-bit parts to incorporate the orchestra.

The dialog track when he first "changes genres" I made it sound a little more trippy like he's in a video game. They actually did this in the show, which you can hear in the video with the Flight of the Valkyres. For some reason, they provided the dialog clean in the no music version - I guess so we could treat it to fit our "genre."


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## David Kudell (May 21, 2020)

Pincel said:


> That's so cool dude!
> 
> I'm not sure if I like it as a score for the scene honestly, but as a piece of music it's really fuckin' cool and well executed! Congrats for taking the chance to be truly original. :D
> 
> ...


Thanks so much! I purposely didn't watch any entries this whole time because I didn't want to be swayed in any way. So I didn't really know how "out there" the entries were going to be. Other than decide to do the chiptune stuff, I just kind of went with it. I'm a fan of the show, so I know that Ramin often does brilliant orchestral covers of pop songs, such as "Paint it Black." So I guess maybe this could be in that vein. 

I'm excited to now go on YouTube and listen to all of the entries - I'm sure there's a ton of amazing stuff!


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## pmcrockett (May 21, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I'm sure it's just a coincidence that none of the people going on about what _other people_ are doing wrong have posted their own entries.


Challenge accepted!

Gotta say, this has been one of my favorite VI Control threads in a long time.


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## fish_hoof (May 21, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I humbly submit my entry! My take on Caleb's genre switch was to enter the world of a video game with 8-bit music and sound. I had a blast with this melody and creating fun variations building up to the final climax.
> 
> This was such a great experience. Thanks to everyone involved for putting on this competition. Thanks for listening!




If I don't win... gosh I hope you do. Enjoyed that.


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## Pincel (May 21, 2020)

pmcrockett said:


> Challenge accepted!
> 
> Gotta say, this has been one of my favorite VI Control threads in a long time.




My gosh, that was easily one of my favourites! It's like Jerry Goldsmith meets modern action style, I love it!

Good thing I never had any hope on actually winning this competition, because you guys are killing it.

And I agree, this thread has been super entertaining so far.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 21, 2020)

Wow! I'm loving all these entries, well done! I entered mine last week, really enjoyed this. I went with a futuristic tone.


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## Eptesicus (May 22, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> As soon as I hear a thunderous percussive hit in the first 10 secs.. I'm out baby!



That is rather silly to discount something so early.

In fact, a good way to score it in my opinion, is to have what you would expect at the start, and then change dramatically at the genre change.

I would hope they at least give them all a chance until just after the genre change or skip through and listen to various points through it for a few seconds. I'm screwed if they only listen to the first 10 seconds of mine


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## toomanynotes (May 22, 2020)

This would be an easy one to score if it wasn't for that embarrassing Genre change scene..I mean the faces he pulls?? Totally destroys any A+ Class music supporting it. Takes a dump on top of my quavers, makes me sound like an amateur. I'm really disturbed no one notices that scene.


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## Eptesicus (May 22, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> This would be an easy one to score if it wasn't for that embarrassing Genre change scene..I mean the faces he pulls?? Totally destroys any A+ Class music supporting it. Takes a dump on top of my quavers, makes me sound like an amateur. I'm really disturbed no one notices that scene.



Its almost like that is the whole challenge or something


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## toomanynotes (May 22, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Its almost like that is the whole challenge or something


You want an Oscar Score? Gimme an Oscar scene


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## FuzyDunlop (May 22, 2020)

pmcrockett said:


> Challenge accepted!
> 
> Gotta say, this has been one of my favorite VI Control threads in a long time.


Excellent job, this is probably my favorite one that I've seen.

edit:



Wolfie2112 said:


> Wow! I'm loving all these entries, well done! I entered mine last week, really enjoyed this. I went with a futuristic tone.



This one is also really great, good work guys.


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## Juan Carlos (May 22, 2020)

Hello everyone,here my composition,greetings. westworldscoringcompetition


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## chillbot (May 22, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> Just a heads up fellas..Don't waste your time, I'm gonna win this. Cheers





toomanynotes said:


> You want an Oscar Score? Gimme an Oscar scene


These two sentences are at odds.


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## Fysik (May 22, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Wow! I'm loving all these entries, well done! I entered mine last week, really enjoyed this. I went with a futuristic tone.




The transition to that synth at 1:14 is really cool.
May I be so impudent and ask how you made that sound?
I am really interested in making such intricate sequenced synths, but tend to fail replicating them.


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## GingerMaestro (May 22, 2020)

Here's my take..This was fun !


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## fish_hoof (May 22, 2020)

Nice work everyone! I actually just made a change to mine... will sit on it for a bit but I'm pretty pumped about it. 

Seriously all.. you guys do some dang great music.


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## toomanynotes (May 22, 2020)

pmcrockett said:


> Challenge accepted!
> 
> Gotta say, this has been one of my favorite VI Control threads in a long time.





chillbot said:


> These two sentences are at odds.


damn it, only I cld come up with a paradox


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 22, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> damn it, only I cld come up with a paradox



There are infact... only so many conflicting sentences the ear can hear in the course of an evening.
Just cut a few and it'll be perfect


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## fish_hoof (May 22, 2020)

I mean... why not think of Westworld as a comedy.


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## Nico (May 23, 2020)

fish_hoof said:


> I mean... why not think of Westworld as a comedy.



I like those guitars and the change of style from 40sec onwards, it works very well!


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## Distre55or (May 23, 2020)

Hi everyone,

adding mine to the list of entries. I really enjoyed putting this together and poking around this thread, too. Great diversity and creativity from the community!
Thanks for your feedback and comments...


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## Nico (May 23, 2020)

ok so here is my entry. I really tried to give a sense of adventure and build to a "western"/horse riding feel.


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## fish_hoof (May 23, 2020)

Nico said:


> I like those guitars and the change of style from 40sec onwards, it works very well!



Thanks Nico. It's an internal battle I am feeling. I have two compositions... one where its guitars all the way through, but doesn't change "genres". The other is this one... Where it has more of quirky feel to start off and then gives the main character this genre change of him being a bad ass. Both peak my interest for different reasons... Kinda like the Coen Bros film "Burn After Reading". Obviously a comedy... but when they did anything action, it was insane over the top. Great movie. 

The trick is... will the judges watch to 40 seconds. Who the heck knows how they are judging.


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## Nico (May 23, 2020)

fish_hoof said:


> Thanks Nico. It's an internal battle I am feeling. I have two compositions... one where its guitars all the way through, but doesn't change "genres". The other is this one... Where it has more of quirky feel to start off and then gives the main character this genre change of him being a bad ass. Both peak my interest for different reasons... Kinda like the Coen Bros film "Burn After Reading". Obviously a comedy... but when they did anything action, it was insane over the top. Great movie.
> 
> The trick is... will the judges watch to 40 seconds. Who the heck knows how they are judging.


yes I wondered the same thing, first, how to get past those 40sec and "hook" them. Then, in my opinion there "should" be a change of genre/pace. You did both, that's why I liked it

I guess they will have a team of interns at first, but then, who knows...


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 23, 2020)

I'm surprised to see so few entries using hybrid time signatures. These tend to be very popular and effective for chase and action in AAA productions.


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## Nova (May 23, 2020)

As someone who is pretty new to composition and just doing it for learning I'm struggling writing for this. I wanted to try writing something without being influenced by other entries. After a couple of whiskeys I broke down and watched some last night and came to 2 conclusions: 1) I really suck, 2) It seems like the best entries (to me, at least) have music that doesn't really say anything or go anywhere. It's just there and it adds tension. As soon as I start moving between chords and having any kind of harmony or motif, it starts sounding wrong.


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## fish_hoof (May 23, 2020)

Nova said:


> As someone who is pretty new to composition and just doing it for learning I'm struggling writing for this. I wanted to try writing something without being influenced by other entries. After a couple of whiskeys I broke down and watched some last night and came to 2 conclusions: 1) I really suck, 2) It seems like the best entries (to me, at least) have music that doesn't really say anything or go anywhere. It's just there and it adds tension. As soon as I start moving between chords and having any kind of harmony or motif, it starts sounding wrong.



You don’t suck! Be you and your voice with the music!


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## spkr4thdd (May 23, 2020)

OK, I've been a lurker since I joined the forum a few months ago, first time post. Quite apt considering this is my first composition to video... ever. In fact, it's the first piece of music I've ever written which wasn't a song, or guitar based.

With the exception of one sample from Absynth 5, everything else in the composition is from free libraries which I've sourced over the last few days to write this.

It's been a huge amount of fun, a great learning experience, and definitely something I'd like to do again!

I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts...


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## Michael Stibor (May 23, 2020)

Distre55or said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> adding mine to the list of entries. I really enjoyed putting this together and poking around this thread, too. Great diversity and creativity from the community!
> Thanks for your feedback and comments...



Really well done. I love that there was restraint when it needed restraint and action when it needed action. Congratulations on being awesome.


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## Michael Stibor (May 23, 2020)

Nico said:


> ok so here is my entry. I really tried to give a sense of adventure and build to a "western"/horse riding feel.



Great job. Especially the opening. If you're going to do electronic, this is the way to do it.


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## visiblenoise (May 23, 2020)

spkr4thdd said:


> OK, I've been a lurker since I joined the forum a few months ago, first time post. Quite apt considering this is my first composition to video... ever. In fact, it's the first piece of music I've ever written which wasn't a song, or guitar based.
> 
> With the exception of one sample from Absynth 5, everything else in the composition is from free libraries which I've sourced over the last few days to write this.
> 
> ...



Impressive, all your caveats notwithstanding!

Sincerely,
Inexperienced Bedroom Musician Who Has Yet to Finish


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## Michael Stibor (May 23, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I'm surprised to see so few entries using hybrid time signatures. These tend to be very popular and effective for chase and action in AAA productions.


I don't see how anyone doesn't use hybrid signatures either. I couldn't make it work without using them.


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## Eptesicus (May 23, 2020)

Nova said:


> It seems like the best entries (to me, at least) have music that doesn't really say anything or go anywhere. It's just there and it adds tension. As soon as I start moving between chords and having any kind of harmony or motif, it starts sounding wrong.



Those entries (the ones with no motif or thematic development) are the most boring to me. I would be hugely surprised (and probably disappointed) if an entry that has just done generic action music all the way through with little musical/emotional interest won. What is key is knowing where to place the thematic bits i think.

That is just me though. Who knows, that could be what they are looking for all i know.


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

Nico said:


> I really tried to give a sense of adventure and build to a "western"/horse riding feel.


Why?


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

After hearing and reading a lot of comments and entries...I wanted to get a little poll happening, but not sure how to format it properly. Anyway...

How many feel that being creative (even though it doesn't fit the scene) is more important than scoring it to fit the overall dark/futuristic vibe? 

I hear a lot of eccentric entries and some are interesting, but others are just so off the mark from what I am doing that I am second guessing myself...LOL


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Those entries (the ones with no motif or thematic development) are the most boring to me. I would be hugely surprised (and probably disappointed) if an entry that has just done generic action music all the way through with little musical/emotional interest won.
> 
> That is just me though. Who knows, that could be what they are looking for all i know.


I posted this question just now...curious...because the scene screams action thriller and weird FX, but I think those that actually listened to the real score for this scene, are trying to do something similar...while isn't being creative doing something that's not even close to the original?


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> How many feel that being creative (even though it doesn't fit the scene) is more important than scoring it to fit the overall dark/futuristic vibe?



I think the winners are going to do both, and are going to do both extremely, extremely well.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> How many feel that being creative (even though it doesn't fit the scene) is more important than scoring it to fit the overall dark/futuristic vibe?



Honestly, some of the entries have made me laugh out loud at how inappropriate the music is... but they're definitely original. I never in a million years would have considered doing half of the stuff I've heard so far.


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## Eptesicus (May 23, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I think the winners are going to do both, and are going to do both extremely, extremely well.



This.


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> Honestly, some of the entries have made me laugh out loud at how inappropriate the music is... but they're definitely original. I never in a million years would have considered doing half of the stuff I've heard so far.


YES!!! exactly.. and if they are truly going to be skipping around, I think that every second needs to be interesting and appropriate...not a competition to see who can come up with the most outlandish score.. LOL


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## Eptesicus (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I posted this question just now...curious...because the scene screams action thriller and weird FX, but I think those that actually listened to the real score for this scene, are trying to do something similar...while isn't being creative doing something that's not even close to the original?





jaketanner said:


> YES!!! exactly.. and if they are truly going to be skipping around, I think that every second needs to be interesting and appropriate...not a competition to see who can come up with the most outlandish score.. LOL



Perhaps the phrase "there are no bad ideas, just bad execution" is relevant here


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## Eropel (May 23, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I'm surprised to see so few entries using hybrid time signatures. These tend to be very popular and effective for chase and action in AAA productions.


Yea, I find odd time signatures really add a lot of momentum to action and chase scenes. I played around with a 7/8 followed by 5/8 pattern in two sections of my entry, some of the most fun that I’ve had writing a car chase scene.


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Perhaps the phrase "there are no bad ideas, just bad execution" is relevant here


agreed


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## Mark Evans (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Why?



Hi. Noob here, only decided yesterday to enter this competition, brief bit of googling brought me to this forum (though I have seen it mentioned on Gearslutz lol).

Not answering on Nico's behalf, but I would point out that the only 'direction' we get from the dialogue is the instruction 'Go south!' followed by the chasing posse heading away from the camera (towards the border, perhaps), so I'd suggest the spaghetti western idea is implicit in the material already there, not to mention the original film source.


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Perhaps the phrase "there are no bad ideas, just bad execution" is relevant here


I think the biggest mistake, or intentionally done...is the lack of a brief. This leaves it to be interpreted way too broadly...that would never happen in real life and while the original score to me sounds like it doesn't belong, it's probably what the directors wanted. So this makes the competition that much harder...and rightfully so because the prize is worth a bunch.


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## CT (May 23, 2020)

Speaking of the "head south" line, I can't believe people are missing the obvious chance to play with that by utilizing various musical devices from southern regions across the globe. If you haven't taken me on a grand tour of the lower latitudes within a few seconds of starting, there's something wrong and I simply must pass.


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

Mark Evans said:


> so I'd suggest the spaghetti western idea is implicit in the material already there, not to mention the original film source


but that's the thing...is following anything close to the original what they want? I think that the lack of a brief gave us the opportunity to score it as it appears to be...dark & futuristic...at least to me. If I had to base the entire show solely on the scene, that's what it screams to me. I have never seen the show, so can't really comment on what it's all about...but I really believe that in this case, they gave us limited guidance so there wouldn't be any preconceived ideas. But western for me of course...just my opinion, is a stretch (for this scene).


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

miket said:


> Speaking of the "head south" line, I can't believe people are missing the obvious chance to play with that by utilizing various musical devices from southern regions across the globe. If you haven't taken me on a grand tour of the lower latitudes within a few seconds of starting, there's something wrong and I simply must pass.


See...I just can't wrap my head around why the scene (not taking into account the show..because that's not what was asked), speaks western or south..they are in a metropolis...south could mean downtown, or a different neighborhood...not sure this words say to me western in any way.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> but that's the thing...is following anything close to the original what they want? I think that the lack of a brief gave us the opportunity to score it as it appears to be...dark & futuristic...at least to me. If I had to base the entire show solely on the scene, that's what it screams to me. I have never seen the show, so can't really comment on what it's all about...but I really believe that in this case, they gave us limited guidance so there wouldn't be any preconceived ideas. But western for me of course...just my opinion, is a stretch (for this scene).



I didn't even listen to the original music, nor to any entries before I wrote my own. I just watched the scene.

A lot of people are mentioning that we should respond to the "genre change," but if you only watch this scene and have never seen any other part of the show (like myself), that line of dialog has absolutely no significance whatsoever.


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## CT (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> See...I just can't wrap my head around why the scene (not taking into account the show..because that's not what was asked), speaks western or south..they are in a metropolis...south could mean downtown, or a different neighborhood...not sure this words say to me western in any way.



Guess my sarcasm is a little too dry for a text forum.


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I didn't even listen to the original music, nor to any entries before I wrote my own. I just watched the scene.
> 
> A lot of people are mentioning that we should respond to the "genre change," but if you only watch this scene and have never seen any other part of the show (like myself), that line of dialog has absolutely no significance whatsoever.


yeah, I agree..I have never seen the show, so genre change didn't mean anything to me, but based off the visual, I gathered that the character changes demeanors...turn from regular to crime fighter or something.. LOL SO I triegave that scene a bit of a chaotic vibe with multiple things happening.


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## Defcon (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Is this 100% BBCSO?



Yes, 100% BBCSO professional version, although I'm not a "professional", hehe. Well, I used a piano to build the structure, but once the project was finished, I eliminated it.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 23, 2020)

I think you guys are overthinking this. It’s not a contest to pick the next composer for the next series, it’s simply a fun competition IMO. Just score it how you see fit, we have absolutely no idea how they are judging this, it’s all speculation. Just have fun and hope that you win! Ether way, it’s a great experience.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 23, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I think you guys are overthinking this. It not a contest to pick the next composer for the next series, it’s simply a fun competition IMO. Just score it how you see fit, we have absolutely no idea how they are judging this, it’s all speculation. Just have fun and hope that you win! Ether way, it’s a great experience.



The goal, as far as I could tell from Paul Thomson's video, was to give more inexperienced composers some professional quality video to practice scoring to. So if you write something that would never possibly make it into the TV show you're missing the point, in my opinion. But, obviously, this is intended to be fun and people can do anything they want.


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

Defcon said:


> Yes, 100% BBCSO professional version, although I'm not a "professional", hehe. Well, I used a piano to build the structure, but once the project was finished, I eliminated it.


how are you liking the pro version? Can you compare it to other libraries you have in terms of where it stacks up? I am mostly interested in the strings, brass and winds...I have plenty of the other elements.


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## David Kudell (May 23, 2020)

One of the best takeaways of this is to have a really cool scene with your music that you can use as a demo to folks that actually might want to hire you.


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## Nico (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Why?


oh just a creative choice, to go into the "genre" and to give some rhythm to the scene, which feels quite slow without music


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## Defcon (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> how are you liking the pro version? Can you compare it to other libraries you have in terms of where it stacks up? I am mostly interested in the strings, brass and winds...I have plenty of the other elements.



I just can compare with the old but a very good Eastwest Hollywood library, and I must say that BBC is clearly better, the strings section is the strongest one and it's something you can check easily when you see the amount of articulations that you can use compared to the rest of sections. It's true that the new plugin still has some memory issues, and as a Cubase user, i have some problems using multiple mics at the same time in some instruments, but overall I'm very happy with this library. Personally, where I think Spitfire has to do some more extra work is with the brass section because it's not enoght bright and brassy for my taste.


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## visiblenoise (May 23, 2020)

miket said:


> Guess my sarcasm is a little too dry for a text forum.


This is the second time I've seen people get you wrong recently - I'm watching you!


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 23, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> The goal, as far as I could tell from Paul Thomson's video, was to give more inexperienced composers some professional quality video to practice scoring to. So if you write something that would never possibly make it into the TV show you're missing the point, in my opinion. But, obviously, this is intended to be fun and people can do anything they want.



Of course, but without input from the director, none of us have a clue what the result is supposed to sound like. Just interpret it in your own way and do the best you can.


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## CT (May 23, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> This is the second time I've seen people get you wrong recently - I'm watching you!


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

Defcon said:


> I just can compare with the old but a very good Eastwest Hollywood library, and I must say that BBC is clearly better, the strings section is the strongest one and it's something you can check easily when you see the amount of articulations that you can use compared to the rest of sections. It's true that the new plugin still has some memory issues, and as a Cubase user, i have some problems using multiple mics at the same time in some instruments, but overall I'm very happy with this library. Personally, where I think Spitfire has to do some more extra work is with the brass section because it's not enoght bright and brassy for my taste.


I have CSS...which is probably the closest in sound. So you only have EW to compare?


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> One of the best takeaways of this is to have a really cool scene with your music that you can use as a demo to folks that actually might want to hire you.


that is exactly what I am doing...and if that happens to win, great...but I am not gonna do two scores for this where one is completely off kilter, and the other matches... LOL


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

Nico said:


> oh just a creative choice, to go into the "genre" and to give some rhythm to the scene, which feels quite slow without music


but what genre is it? I think too many interpret the words genre with an actual musical style...not sure really because I don't watch the show.


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## David Kudell (May 23, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> but what genre is it? I think too many interpret the words genre with an actual musical style...not sure really because I don't watch the show.


In the episode they were movie genres. He takes an electronic drug that makes you feel like you’re in different movie genres. This is one of 3 or 4 in the episode. There was also a love story one where he looks lovingly at Delores (the female protagonist in this scene), and a serious one where he flashes back to being in the army.


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## jaketanner (May 23, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> In the episode they were movie genres. He takes an electronic drug that makes you feel like you’re in different movie genres. This is one of 3 or 4 in the episode. There was also a love story one where he looks lovingly at Delores (the female protagonist in this scene), and a serious one where he flashes back to being in the army.


Ah. Ok. Thanks


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## Eptesicus (May 23, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I think you guys are overthinking this. It’s not a contest to pick the next composer for the next series, it’s simply a fun competition IMO. Just score it how you see fit, we have absolutely no idea how they are judging this, it’s all speculation. Just have fun and hope that you win! Ether way, it’s a great experience.



When all said and done, this right here ^.

We can all have are own thoughts about what we think we need to do to get the judges to sit up and take notice, but none of us truly know what will peak their interest.


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## Nova (May 23, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I think you guys are overthinking this. It’s not a contest to pick the next composer for the next series, it’s simply a fun competition IMO. Just score it how you see fit, we have absolutely no idea how they are judging this, it’s all speculation. Just have fun and hope that you win! Ether way, it’s a great experience.



I'm just doing this to learn and probably won't even enter the competition. My overthinking is because what I write doesn't seem to 'fit' for how I think it should sound. It's quite frustrating not being able to match my head to the sounds.


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## toomanynotes (May 24, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> There are infact... only so many conflicting sentences the ear can hear in the course of an evening.
> Just cut a few and it'll be perfect


which did you have in mind?


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## toomanynotes (May 24, 2020)

Nova said:


> As soon as I start moving between chords and having any kind of harmony or motif, it starts sounding wrong.





Eptesicus said:


> Those entries (the ones with no motif or thematic development) are the most boring to me. I would be hugely surprised (and probably disappointed) if an entry that has just done generic action music all the way through with little musical/emotional interest won. What is key is knowing where to place the thematic bits i think.
> 
> That is just me though. Who knows, that could be what they are looking for all i know.


Placing thematic bits is where it's at and a challenge, so far most entries have gone down the embarrassing least path of resistance route. I can't even listen to the first 20secs of the 98% entries (not that I have) without wanting to puke in my boot. I blame the god awful generic scene. The only Westworld I know of is the Yul Brynner one.


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## Loïc D (May 24, 2020)

Funny, I saw this on the rules page.

*Does it matter where I live?*
No, this competition is worldwide. However, if you live in one of the very small number of countries / regions that do not allow competitions such as these (e.g. Quebec), you may not be able to enter.

Anyone to explain this ? (Ps: not concerned)


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 24, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> Funny, I saw this on the rules page.
> 
> *Does it matter where I live?*
> No, this competition is worldwide. However, if you live in one of the very small number of countries / regions that do not allow competitions such as these (e.g. Quebec), you may not be able to enter.
> ...



What about it would you like explained?


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## Mark Evans (May 24, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> What about it would you like explained?



What goes on in Quebec that you can't enter a competition like this if you live there? Seemed weird to me too.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 24, 2020)

Mark Evans said:


> What goes on in Quebec that you can't enter a competition like this if you live there? Seemed weird to me too.



Quebec has different rules from the rest of Canada (even my trade certification is valid in every province except Quebec). They are allegedly trying to “protect” residents from international fraudulent scams...which is goofy. Their loss.


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## Pincel (May 24, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> I think you guys are overthinking this. It’s not a contest to pick the next composer for the next series, it’s simply a fun competition IMO. Just score it how you see fit, we have absolutely no idea how they are judging this, it’s all speculation. Just have fun and hope that you win! Ether way, it’s a great experience.



I totally agree. The thread has been super interesting so far, but in the end it's pretty useless to try and figure out what the 'secret ingredients' might be IMO, because no one knows. They will probably have certain 'key scenes' and stuff that should maybe stand out in some way, but in the end I do think they are looking for something creative that fits, and helps propel the action forward with a sense of narrative. And that can be a lot of things, so we just have to give our best shot and that's it, not much use in second guessing every little detail.

I'm done with mine and had a great time doing it, and that was the prize for me! Winning the contest was never a consideration honestly, I just pretended that the director gave me full creative liberty to score it as I saw fit within my abilities. I will be posting it of course, just because I do like to get feedback on my stuff if possible, and this contest has been having some decent visibility, but that's pretty much it.

But also, I do like to hear other people's music, so that can be a reward on it's own.


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## Loïc D (May 24, 2020)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Quebec has different rules from the rest of Canada (even my trade certification is valid in every province except Quebec). They are allegedly trying to “protect” residents from international fraudulent scams...which is goofy. Their loss.



Thanks Wolfie !
That is indeed strange, I see no harm in a composing contest (hmmm mayyyyybe I’m too naive  )


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## dzilizzi (May 25, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> Thanks Wolfie !
> That is indeed strange, I see no harm in a composing contest (hmmm mayyyyybe I’m too naive  )


Some composing contests require an entry fee.


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## GingerMaestro (May 25, 2020)

I'm sure this has been asked already, but can;t seem to find the answer. Does anyone know if you can get videos like this with just the dialogue & SFX and the music removed. I'd like to practise on some other clips, now I'm starting to get into the swing of this. Thanks


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## angeruroth (May 25, 2020)

Pincel said:


> I'm done with mine and had a great time doing it, and that was the prize for me!


This. The fact that we can use real sources is awesome per se.
I wish there were more out there, with or without a contest.
And I also think it's good marketing, so I hope we'll see more in the future. Just imagine if someone like HBO (or BBC, or...) starts sharing different scenes from different shows monthly!



GingerMaestro said:


> I'm sure this has been asked already, but can;t seem to find the answer. Does anyone know if you can get videos like this with just the dialogue & SFX and the music removed. I'd like to practise on some other clips, now I'm starting to get into the swing of this. Thanks


Hard as hell.

On a side note, I'm amazed by those who can watch so many takes without going mad. After 10 in a row it all becomes a blur in my head, and then I need a few days before trying again!


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## FuzyDunlop (May 25, 2020)

GingerMaestro said:


> I'm sure this has been asked already, but can;t seem to find the answer. Does anyone know if you can get videos like this with just the dialogue & SFX and the music removed. I'd like to practise on some other clips, now I'm starting to get into the swing of this. Thanks



Try using the search function. There are a lot of threads about that.


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## Dan Drebing (May 25, 2020)

Throwing my entry in the ring. I decided to have fun with the "genre" plot point and score the chase as a waltz (minus the fairly standard modern hybrid opening). I'm really hoping that the judge will: 1. even listen to my entry, 2. make it to ~:35 seconds because I really like the "orchestra tuning up" effect while Aaron Paul is spacing out and I'm hoping that might convince the judge to keep listening.


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## Sheridan (May 25, 2020)

Hi everyone,

This was my first ever attempt at scoring to picture. Played it straight and no tempo changes.

Many thanks to Spitfire Audio and HBO for arranging this competition. It was both fun, highly motivating and a great learning experience for an amateur such as myself! 



[Link removed]


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## iaink (May 25, 2020)

Well, here is my entry. Just figuring out the cue was great fun (trying to, that is)... thanks Spitfire for setting this up.


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## fish_hoof (May 25, 2020)

Alright gang... I think I'm putting this competition to bed lol. This rhythm has been in my head for some time, wasn't going to dive into it and re-do it, but I had to, and had fun doing it. Which is what ultimately matters. 



Now... I have to decide which of my two I submit.


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## becolossal (May 25, 2020)

Dan Drebing said:


> Throwing my entry in the ring. I decided to have fun with the "genre" plot point and score the chase as a waltz (minus the fairly standard modern hybrid opening). I'm really hoping that the judge will: 1. even listen to my entry, 2. make it to ~:35 seconds because I really like the "orchestra tuning up" effect while Aaron Paul is spacing out and I'm hoping that might convince the judge to keep listening.




This is just...just great. I went for action with my cue because I felt the genre thing was lost in general in this clip/episode, but your waltz concept is awesome. Nicely done, Dan!


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## tebling (May 25, 2020)

Dan Drebing said:


> Throwing my entry in the ring. I decided to have fun with the "genre" plot point and score the chase as a waltz (minus the fairly standard modern hybrid opening)



I nearly spit out my hot chocolate when the waltz started! This is way more interesting than "Flight of the Valkyries" - I wish your version had appeared in the show  And well done on carrying it on for four minutes and keeping it interesting all the way through.


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## tebling (May 25, 2020)

It's been amazing seeing everyone's work, and the huge variety of styles and ideas at play!

Like a lot of you, I haven't had this much fun with a project in a long time, and I'm so grateful to have the chance to score an action sequence like this - never mind the competition, it would have been just as great without it!

I didn't make a waltz or a chipcore tune (@David Kudell you've already won that genre!) but I did go Synthwave / Berlin School. You can take the kid out of the 80s but you can't take the 80s out of the kid  All the crazy retro future cars gave me a strong Tron vibe, so maybe it works?!


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## ookami (May 25, 2020)

Hi Guys, I also want to share my Entry here with You, I think it is unbelievable how many different approaches there are, this is truly amazing and I love to hear so much great Work, in such a variety, giving the Picture a completely different feel everytime. 😊
I also went for Hybrid Action, but I switched it up a little bit at the Bomb Drop Part, till the End. I tried to create a Tense Structure throughout, but I start of quiete low and have the full intensity right before he shoots the Rocket-Bomb, so I know this is a little bit risky, but it felt right 😅 So again SpitfireAudio & HBO cannot be thanked enough for making such an outstanding Competition for the Community 🙏❤ So here it comes I hope you enjoy listening to it,


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## gh0stwrit3r (May 26, 2020)

This is one of my favorite threads on VI-Control already! What an amazing submissions I have seen! The one from @David Kudell (8bit) is truly phenomenal. A creative ear worm that made me really laugh!

I'm just doing music in my spare time. So this was really a challenge for me. Never scored to picture like this. 

I stayed away from orchestral. To be honest, I was a little bit intimidated by all the fabulous entries I saw within this genre. I could never reach those levels. Also stayed away from the "default" chase/action music. No ostinatos in my work this time.

So I ended up with a - I guess - simple and minimalistic result. With a theme in it. I really wanted a theme! So this is it. If you would like to comment it, I really appreciate that! I want to learn, to get better


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## David Kudell (May 26, 2020)

gh0stwrit3r said:


> This is one of my favorite threads on VI-Control already! What an amazing submissions I have seen! The one from @David Kudell (8bit) is truly phenomenal. A creative ear worm that made me really laugh!
> 
> I'm just doing music in my spare time. So this was really a challenge for me. Never scored to picture like this.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for the mention! I‘m flattered.

Good job on yours, the this minimal approach definitely keeps the focus on the scene and has a memorable melody. There’s no wrong answer to this, and it’s good to be different I think!


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## ookami (May 26, 2020)

gh0stwrit3r said:


> This is one of my favorite threads on VI-Control already! What an amazing submissions I have seen! The one from @David Kudell (8bit) is truly phenomenal. A creative ear worm that made me really laugh!
> 
> I'm just doing music in my spare time. So this was really a challenge for me. Never scored to picture like this.
> 
> ...




Hey Gh0stwrit3r,

I like Your minimalistic approach a lot, the Stuttering Synth Rythm, when rhe Cars get starting, is just great, and the Wood Whale Tone Fields are super immersive. 😲

I love that You have a clear Theme with the Koto Like String-Sound, and the Piano-Beat gives the Picture a really Cool Vibe.

I Like your Cue as it is, if anything added, I would maybe had the Overall Sound in parallel with some subtle but full and deep saturation, to push it a little bit more. 😊 

Best Wishes Jonathan


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## David Kudell (May 26, 2020)

ookami said:


> Hi Guys, I also want to share my Entry here with You, I think it is unbelievable how many different approaches there are, this is truly amazing and I love to hear so much great Work, in such a variety, giving the Picture a completely different feel everytime. 😊
> I also went for Hybrid Action, but I switched it up a little bit at the Bomb Drop Part, till the End. I tried to create a Tense Structure throughout, but I start of quiete low and have the full intensity right before he shoots the Rocket-Bomb, so I know this is a little bit risky, but it felt right 😅 So again SpitfireAudio & HBO cannot be thanked enough for making such an outstanding Competition for the Community 🙏❤ So here it comes I hope you enjoy listening to it,



Nice work, I like the tone of this one, the synth gives it a futuristic sound. I like the solo string part on the Bomb drop a lot!


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## ookami (May 26, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> Nice work, I like the tone of this one, the synth gives it a futuristic sound. I like the solo string part on the Bomb drop a lot!



David, thank You so much.

I just listened to Your Entry and Man the 8Bit Sound World is so Super authentic and on Point, the Winning Sounds, ... are hillarious and give the Scene such a Genre Twist, and then on the other Side Your Epic Parts are Genious, You've switched the interpretation of the Theme over and over, I love them a ton! 🤯😲 Especially the Bomb drop Part is my Favourite !! Impressive Work!


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## Pincel (May 26, 2020)

Here's my entry if anyone's interested. 

SPOILER ALERT: Nothing too crazy or flashy going on, just tried to serve the scene the best I could and give it some sense of narrative, so I guess I did end up going with a bit of a minimalistic tension thing overall, but with some action bits where I felt approriate.
I'll admit it's certainly not the most interesting thing as a piece of music, but I'm quite satisfied with how it works with the picture, which was my end goal with this.

If anything, regardless of who wins in the end, this contest really serves to show how much 'hidden' talent there is out there, there's no shortage of amazing creative people who just need the right opportunity to shine. If only we could all have a real shot at this... But I digress, keep 'em coming that I'll keep listening.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 26, 2020)

Pincel said:


> Here's my entry if anyone's interested.
> 
> SPOILER ALERT: Nothing too crazy or flashy going on, just tried to serve the scene the best I could and give it some sense of narrative, so I guess I did end up going with a bit of a minimalistic tension thing overall, but with some action bits where I felt approriate.
> I'll admit it's certainly not the most interesting thing as a piece of music, but I'm quite satisfied with how it works with the picture, which was my end goal with this.
> ...


Very well done.


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## iaink (May 26, 2020)

Nice work @David Kudell and @Dan Drebing - I think these kind of left field approaches will win. Very well done on taking the risk.

That waltz goes with the facial expression so well!


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## becolossal (May 26, 2020)

Well, here's my entry! I played it pretty straight, with the goal being to make the scene feel faster and a bit more tense. 

Killer exercise to play with the dynamics weaving in and out of the character dialogue. And many thanks to @Spitfire Team for pulling this thing together. Just awesome to see how many different pieces this thing has brought out of people.

I love this show, so I found this to be delightful.


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## David Kudell (May 26, 2020)

iaink said:


> Nice work @David Kudell and @Dan Drebing - I think these kind of left field approaches will win. Very well done on taking the risk.
> 
> That waltz goes with the facial expression so well!



Thanks so much! I loved @Dan Drebing's waltz too, I thought waltz might be a great option and Dan proved it!

Did anyone pick up on the inspiration for my YouTube thumbnail?


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## Dan Drebing (May 26, 2020)

becolossal said:


> This is just...just great. I went for action with my cue because I felt the genre thing was lost in general in this clip/episode, but your waltz concept is awesome. Nicely done, Dan!


Thanks very much!



tebling said:


> And well done on carrying it on for four minutes and keeping it interesting all the way through.


I'm really happy that you mentioned it staying interesting to the end because that was one of the biggest challenges.



iaink said:


> That waltz goes with the facial expression so well!


Haha yeah, I thought that's how someone would react to hearing a kind of corny waltz in their head.

There are so many cool entries and so much creative risk taking here, it's awesome. I really like the cool textures in @iaink's entry, @fish_hoof's galloping guitars, @tebling's 80's synthwave score and @David Kudell's 8bit score (and sound design/replacement!).


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## fish_hoof (May 26, 2020)

Dan Drebing said:


> Thanks very much!
> 
> 
> I'm really happy that you mentioned it staying interesting to the end because that was one of the biggest challenges.
> ...



Thank you Dan! I'm glad I went back with my gut instinct to do some Jonny Cash. Its amazing that in once scene, we have 8bit, waltz, Cash, 80's synth, textures, action, I heard someone on Youtube with a Mexican mariachi feel... I mean, the sky's the limit with this. Just gotta have fun. 

I also learned that as I get older, its harder to keep up with the rhythms playing acoustic guitar lol.


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## Eptesicus (May 26, 2020)

Im going mad tweaking and rerecording bits of mine.

Need to just call it a day i think.


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## jononotbono (May 26, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Im going mad tweaking and rerecording bits of mine.
> 
> Need to just call it a day i think.



😂

I know right what you’re going through. Truly!


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## Eptesicus (May 26, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> 😂
> 
> I know right what you’re going through. Truly!



i think i literally spent the whole day today tweaking and making it sound worse.

now i'm in a bad mood.


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## jononotbono (May 26, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> i think i literally spent the whole day today tweaking and making it sound worse.
> 
> now i'm in a bad mood.



I'm fluxuating with half db level increases and decreases. Is it too late to add to the tempo map!


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## David Kudell (May 26, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I'm fluxuating with half db level increases and decreases. Is it too late to add to the tempo map!


That tempo map can be dangerous! All I can say is it's good to save new versions of your project in case you do something you can't undo!


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## FuzyDunlop (May 26, 2020)

I must not understand film scoring on some fundamental level. I can't see the thought process behind turning the scene into a comedy. What am I missing here?


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## jononotbono (May 26, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> That tempo map can be dangerous! All I can say is it's good to save new versions of your project in case you do something you can't undo!



I've probably now got over 40 backups (that's not including save versions of each backup). 

By the way, I loved your Submission!


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## fish_hoof (May 26, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I must not understand film scoring on some fundamental level. I can't see the thought process behind turning the scene into a comedy. What am I missing here?



I know right? For me, my first version was all complete action (I actually still love my first version). Then after sitting in it for a bit with the character, knowing more about the story (I've never watched this show), and going off of the "temp" track they gave us. Got me thinking that they DO value a genre change... what genre, is up to us. Doesn't have to be comedy... which is maybe why I chose to Jonny Cash feel, cause, he's kinda bad ass. But.... can still be interpreted comedy I guess. 

Go with your gut. Who cares what others do.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 26, 2020)

fish_hoof said:


> Go with your gut. Who cares what others do.



I'm just surprised by how well received these wildly inappropriate musical styles are. I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon and write some incongruous Bollywood music or anything, but I feel like if I did I would be lauded in this thread for my arbitrary 'originality.'


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## Dan Drebing (May 26, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I must not understand film scoring on some fundamental level. I can't see the thought process behind turning the scene into a comedy. What am I missing here?





FuzyDunlop said:


> I'm just surprised by how well received these wildly inappropriate musical styles are. I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon and write some incongruous Bollywood music or anything, but I feel like if I did I would be lauded in this thread for my arbitrary 'originality.'



Speaking as someone who didn't score it with modern hybrid music, two big points in my decision to not do so were that 1. the scene's story explicitly includes the fact that the character is experiencing different 'genres' which I think gives you carte blanche to write something incongruous but still in a very well defined style/genre, and 2. I'm not going to turn in the best hybrid score because I don't write a lot of music like that, so I'm not going spend hours and hours of work to fight a losing battle.

I think it's okay to ignore the piece of dialog about genres and score it straight (I actually posted on here weeks ago about how I was confused about whether or not we are supposed to score it straight or stick to the plot point about 'genres'). I decided I wanted to use the 'genre' plot point and so I scored it as a waltz; the movement of the cars throughout the chase is a little bit like a dance maybe? Regardless, I don't think the main selling point of what I wrote is just "I bet you didn't expect this." The music has a narrative arc, it follows the action and hits cuts, and it keeps changing and moving to try to stay interesting.

I agree that scoring something incongruously can be a pretty cheap/cutesy way to try to _seem _creative and original without actually writing a good score, but I think the premise of the scene allows for it so long as you actually write something pretty decent.


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## becolossal (May 26, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I'm just surprised by how well received these wildly inappropriate musical styles are. I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon and write some incongruous Bollywood music or anything, but I feel like if I did I would be lauded in this thread for my arbitrary 'originality.'



I think the key thing you're missing here is the context of the show. If you've seen this episode, the "genre" thing is the trigger for most people taking the 'inappropriate styles' you're talking about. Out of context, it's harder to parse. That's why I think both traditional action and off-the-wall approaches work here. I went with what I thought felt the palette of the show overall and did not go off-the-wall, which was the right choice for my imaginary conversation with the director. 

I don't think either approach is right or wrong given the context in which this scene is being presented: a contest.


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## stixman (May 26, 2020)

I have been trying my hand at scoring to picture for a while now as i really enjoy it and the quality of this video is great as a learning tool, hope you enjoy


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## fish_hoof (May 26, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I'm just surprised by how well received these wildly inappropriate musical styles are. I'm not gonna jump on the bandwagon and write some incongruous Bollywood music or anything, but I feel like if I did I would be lauded in this thread for my arbitrary 'originality.'



Probably because they are different and creative approaches. Its fun hearing weird different ideas. Even if they don't work with the picture, the music is still great to listen to. Whatever you do, who cares if people say it's not original. Whatever you do IS original... yes you might have inspirations from current music, but you are original. 

Maybe start yours off in one style and then his "genre" switch is something more legit that you feel should be scored... I tried this with one version, which I started off comedy. I couldn't handle it to be honest lol, but I tried it to see how it worked.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 26, 2020)

fish_hoof said:


> Probably because they are different and creative approaches. Its fun hearing weird different ideas. Even if they don't work with the picture, the music is still great to listen to. Whatever you do, who cares if people say it's not original. Whatever you do IS original... yes you might have inspirations from current music, but you are original.
> 
> Maybe start yours off in one style and then his "genre" switch is something more legit that you feel should be scored... I tried this with one version, which I started off comedy. I couldn't handle it to be honest lol, but I tried it to see how it worked.



I already posted my entry a while ago. I didn't really do anything for the genre change other than try to respond to the emotion on his face because without watching the show there's no reason to do anything else- nothing changes narratively or visually at all. I also didn't think he was the main character of the show or the real subject of the scene. But anyway, I do think that all of the entries were well made and good pieces of music on their own. Just, for me personally, they do not fit at all. They completely remove all sense of tension or stakes and some of them even make it comedic. I feel that way about the music used in the original version as well to a degree. But it fits a little bit better than a seemingly random dartboard-throw genre pick. 

I'm not trying to be negative about anybody's work, so sorry if it comes off that way. Like I said, everything I've seen has been incredibly well made. All I am questioning is the decision making process behind it.


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## fish_hoof (May 26, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I already posted my entry a while ago. I didn't really do anything for the genre change other than try to respond to the emotion on his face because without watching the show there's no reason to do anything else- nothing changes narratively or visually at all. I also didn't think he was the main character of the show or the real subject of the scene. But anyway, I do think that all of the entries were well made and good pieces of music on their own. Just, for me personally, they do not fit at all. They completely remove all sense of tension or stakes and some of them even make it comedic. I feel that way about the music used in the original version as well to a degree. But it fits a little bit better than a seemingly random dartboard-throw genre pick.
> 
> I'm not trying to be negative about anybody's work, so sorry if it comes off that way. Like I said, everything I've seen has been incredibly well made. All I am questioning is the decision making process behind it.



No you're good! Great points! I have to go back and find yours to listen to. These posts update so quick!


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## tebling (May 26, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> But anyway, I do think that all of the entries were well made and good pieces of music on their own. Just, for me personally, they do not fit at all.



I totally understand where you're coming from, and it definitely seems like the "genre change" aspect is a polarizing one - you're either in, in which case it doesn't make sense to go halfway (which is why some entries feel totally over the top), or you're out in which case you don't acknowledge the genre change moment and just "play it straight" as some have said.

I think there are fantastic entries in both camps, and I hope the judges aren't particularly biased toward one or the other. That being said, I think we have to wonder why they chose _this_ particular sequence in _this_ particular episode - especially with the "genre change" moment happening near the start of the punch in. Someone was definitely putting the bait out there, so I certainly hope it's not a trap


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 26, 2020)

When I scored my entry, I dove straight in and just “did it”. I wasn’t even intending on entering, but was instantly inspired when I downloaded and viewed the scene. I think it was about three hours from start to finish (which surprised me!). The key is....don’t second guess yourself, and don’t underestimate your talent and creativity. Even if you think it sounds like shit, just enter. As another poster mentioned, it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. In the end, you may win an epic prize, or you may not, but most of us most likely have learned a lot from this.....noobs and veterans alike. Definitely one of the most enjoyable threads I’ve seen here in years!


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## MA-Simon (May 26, 2020)

After drinking some and listening to most submissions here,

one thing I notice is that NO ONE is using glitches and stuff. I have not seen season 3 yet, but I can see a lot of transitions in this scene for switching between themes. Nobody seems to care for him beeing drugged out and switching between different genres. Did you never try drugs at all when you were young?
People are completely missing the point, I feel. Were is the western, were is the comic, were is the bladerunner?

I am not really one to tell, because I am way to lazy to score anything right now. I am in awe of everyone who finishes a piece! Especially with a weirdly filmed scene like that. I love westworld. But that scene was C movie Quality at best. I hope HBO is not doing a repeat of Game of Thrones season 7-8. Fewer episodes, more action, less plot?
I do have a sound mapped out in my mind, very differently from most submissions so far. But it would be so much work to get the stuff I hear in my head into my DAW, so I won't even start. Maybe I will hear it in your stuff soon! Good luck everyone!

Edit: Still waiting for something like this, once they leave the car at the end:


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## fish_hoof (May 26, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> After drinking some and listening to most submissions here,
> 
> one thing I notice is that NO ONE is using glitches and stuff. I have not seen season 3 yet, but I can see a lot of transitions in this scene for switching between themes. Nobody seems to care for him beeing drugged out and switching between different genres. Did you never try drugs at all when you were young?
> People are completely missing the point, I feel. Were is the western, were is the comic, were is the bladerunner?
> ...




I did a version of this where he switched genres multiple times (I haven't shared it). It REALLY didn't sit well with me. I, as someone watching trying to enjoy the story, kept getting thrown around like a fish out of water. Maybe it was the right "choices". For me, It didn't feel right... but that doesn't mean it can't be done.


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## Michael Stibor (May 26, 2020)

The thing about the genre changing is that it’s cool to use that, but it has to work. If you’re doing it just for fun, then cool, but if you’re legitimately trying to score the scene it’s pretty hard to do. It’s one thing to switch genres. But it still has to match the action on screen.

So yeah, points to anyone who branched out from the generic action film stuff, but points _deducted_ if it doesn’t work! Lol.

I made the hard decision last week to start over. Not from the beginning, but pretty close. From the genre switching part onward. I had initially gone with a more classical approach. A little Mozart/Beethoven feel. I could’ve made it work. It sort of worked. But it still had many of the problems that a lot of the ones I’ve seen have. The music was cute, but it just didn’t work well _enough_.

So I see both sides. Like I’ve said earlier in this thread, the people that will win will be the people that really strike the right balance in tone/action and originality.


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## becolossal (May 26, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> After drinking some and listening to most submissions here,
> 
> one thing I notice is that NO ONE is using glitches and stuff. I have not seen season 3 yet, but I can see a lot of transitions in this scene for switching between themes. Nobody seems to care for him beeing drugged out and switching between different genres. Did you never try drugs at all when you were young?
> People are completely missing the point, I feel. Were is the western, were is the comic, were is the bladerunner?
> ...




I used few in mine. There's some static and granular stuff happening every time he experiences some effect of the genre drug, which slowly ramps up as the violence in the scene gets higher and higher. I was also pretty intentional about distorting even the more traditional sounds by crushing some of the strings, washing out some of the horns, etc. I felt the genre thing was more about turning up the intensity rather than creating an opposite, but that was my imaginary conversation with the director 

EDIT: I also used sounds from a CS80 in mine. How much more Blade Runner do you want, man?! :D


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## jononotbono (May 26, 2020)

becolossal said:


> I used few in mine. There's some static and granular stuff happening every time he experiences some effect of the genre drug, which slowly ramps up as the violence in the scene gets higher and higher. I was also pretty intentional about distorting even the more traditional sounds by crushing some of the strings, washing out some of the horns, etc. I felt the genre thing was more about turning up the intensity rather than creating an opposite, but that was my imaginary conversation with the director
> 
> EDIT: I also used sounds from a CS80 in mine. How much more Blade Runner do you want, man?! :D



Have you posted yours yet?


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## becolossal (May 26, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Have you posted yours yet?



I did. I got buried in a page turn...lol. I don't want to spam my entry so I won't repost it, but it's back on page 19, post #377.


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## jononotbono (May 26, 2020)

becolossal said:


> I did. I got buried in a page turn...lol. I don't want to spam my entry so I won't repost it, but it's back on page 19, post #377.



I shall enjoy listening in a moment! Thanks man!


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## Levon (May 26, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I humbly submit my entry! My take on Caleb's genre switch was to enter the world of a video game with 8-bit music and sound. I had a blast with this melody and creating fun variations building up to the final climax.
> 
> This was such a great experience. Thanks to everyone involved for putting on this competition. Thanks for listening!



This is brilliant David! Hugely entertaining! Well done!


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## pmcrockett (May 26, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> i think i literally spent the whole day today tweaking and making it sound worse.
> 
> now i'm in a bad mood.


I had uploaded my track to YouTube and was getting ready to publish it, but then I listened to it on tiny desktop speakers and realized that the music was about 6 dB too quiet even though it had sounded fine on headphones. So I went back in and raised the level, but that threw the frequency balance off in comparison with the audio track, so then I had to fix that, too. 

Though I gather from some of the issues I've seen in other entries that I wasn't the only one who had trouble with leveling the music against the audio track, so that makes me feel a little better.


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## ookami (May 26, 2020)

MA-Simon said:


> After drinking some and listening to most submissions here,
> 
> one thing I notice is that NO ONE is using glitches and stuff. I have not seen season 3 yet, but I can see a lot of transitions in this scene for switching between themes. Nobody seems to care for him beeing drugged out and switching between different genres. Did you never try drugs at all when you were young?
> People are completely missing the point, I feel. Were is the western, were is the comic, were is the bladerunner?
> ...



Hey Simon same here, I think I've quite some Glitching in mine too, 😆 especially in the trippy Scenes. I think You should start anyway, cause it is a great experience working on this kind of Quality Footage (yes I do not think it is C-Quality at all 😊)


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## ookami (May 26, 2020)

pmcrockett said:


> I had uploaded my track to YouTube and was getting ready to publish it, but then I listened to it on tiny desktop speakers and realized that the music was about 6 dB too quiet even though it had sounded fine on headphones. So I went back in and raised the level, but that threw the frequency balance off in comparison with the audio track, so then I had to fix that, too.
> 
> Though I gather from some of the issues I've seen in other entries that I wasn't the only one who had trouble with leveling the music against the audio track, so that makes me feel a little better.


I know excactly what You mean it is always challenging to get the right amount between I sqeeeeze the Material to hard, and is it loud enough in comparsen to other Material, do You have Ozone??


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 27, 2020)

Words of wisdom from this morning... (Though for what it's worth, I think there are about four cuts in the sequence that really _should_ be hit)






Also worth saying the cuts aren't the only tempo/rhythmically driven thing in a scene. Footsteps, dialogue etc can all provide an instinctive tempo and time sig


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## ookami (May 27, 2020)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Words of wisdom from this morning... (Though for what it's worth, I think there are about four cuts in the sequence that really _should_ be hit)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So True (imho), thanks for sharing Richard, 🙏


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## Magnus73 (May 27, 2020)

Here is my take on it, no Genre change in the music.


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## quickbrownf0x (May 27, 2020)

charlieclouser said:


> Yes. Exactly.
> 
> That's part of the process, part of what makes a director and a composer feel like "kindred souls" who share a similar outlook and can have a productive creative relationship. When they feel like you get it without being explicitly instructed what to do. Best-case scenario is when they can describe how they want the score to relate to the whole arc of the story, slowly revealing more and more of the central theme while nodding to the various characters and plot lines, and refer to other music in terms of the emotions they evoke. Worst-case scenario is when they don't have the abstract verbal skills to describe what they need much beyond, "I'll know it when I hear it."
> 
> ...



Charlie (and I guess everybody),
would it help if you'd have some sort of tool and/or method to help you do this, keep everybody on the same page at the same time? I've been toying around with this idea myself for a while now, but never had the time to do some proper research. Maybe there's a way to help (guide) composers, directors, production folks to streamline their workflow, make it more efficient? Leaves more room for doing what you love - making music, right? Just a thought. I'm a designer/researcher by day, composer by night btw, so just from looking around and talking to other composers and based on my own workflow.... I'm starting to notice a pattern.


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## Leslie Fuller (May 27, 2020)

Here's my entry for the Westworld Scoring Competition. 

It was my first time scoring such an action film scene, so please be gentle with me!!

Apart from the supplied clip, I’ve not watched any of the Westworld TV series, and produced the music purely on how I saw the scene.

I didn’t do anything outlandish and just wanted to “underscore” the scene the best I could and give it some motion. A few bits of tension, and some action bits where necessary.

I quite like how it works with the picture (in places) which was my end goal, but then I would, wouldn’t I! 

There are so many great entries for this competition, and a wealth of talent out in the community.

Congratulations to whoever wins!


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## Eptesicus (May 27, 2020)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Words of wisdom from this morning... (Though for what it's worth, I think there are about four cuts in the sequence that really _should_ be hit)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are these replies specifically about this competition?


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 27, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Are these replies specifically about this competition?


Nope - someone asked about hitting 'minor' beats/cuts in a scene and how important people thought it was.


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## Eptesicus (May 27, 2020)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Nope - someone asked about hitting 'minor' beats/cuts in a scene and how important people thought it was.



Oh I see. In that case, I think its a bit more tricky in this situation when you only have a small, traileresque sequence cut scene (with the end logo etc) and no director or editor to work with .

I totally agree about not going overboard with hit points but at the same time, this needs to be impactful and get the judges attention. Honestly, I don't think they are looking for 4 mins of underscore here. I've seen so many where someone has just looped the same motif or beat across almost the whole thing whilst only attempting to hit a couple of scenes and it just sounds awkward. 

The whole thing is a very fine line to tread!


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## Michael Stibor (May 27, 2020)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Nope - someone asked about hitting 'minor' beats/cuts in a scene and how important people thought it was.


Where was this from? Looks like a Facebook group


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## Loïc D (May 27, 2020)

I still need time to post mine....

But I had an idea - that I won’t do - when listening to radio : write a song, in old fashion gramophone style. 

I think it could be a good idea to just write an original song, not a score.

I’ll try that in the next contest


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## Leslie Fuller (May 27, 2020)

ookami said:


> Hi Guys, I also want to share my Entry here with You, I think it is unbelievable how many different approaches there are, this is truly amazing and I love to hear so much great Work, in such a variety, giving the Picture a completely different feel everytime. 😊
> I also went for Hybrid Action, but I switched it up a little bit at the Bomb Drop Part, till the End. I tried to create a Tense Structure throughout, but I start of quiete low and have the full intensity right before he shoots the Rocket-Bomb, so I know this is a little bit risky, but it felt right 😅 So again SpitfireAudio & HBO cannot be thanked enough for making such an outstanding Competition for the Community 🙏❤ So here it comes I hope you enjoy listening to it,




Thanks for the like, @ookami!

Really like how you used the rhythmic percussion during the scene, the switch from orchestral to electronic, and especially the rocket section!

As you say, there are so many different takes on this scene.


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 27, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> Where was this from? Looks like a Facebook group



Yup - it's from the '_Perspective - a form for film & tv composers_' group on FB.


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## charlieclouser (May 27, 2020)

quickbrownf0x said:


> Charlie (and I guess everybody),
> would it help if you'd have some sort of tool and/or method to help you do this, keep everybody on the same page at the same time? I've been toying around with this idea myself for a while now, but never had the time to do some proper research. Maybe there's a way to help (guide) composers, directors, production folks to streamline their workflow, make it more efficient? Leaves more room for doing what you love - making music, right? Just a thought. I'm a designer/researcher by day, composer by night btw, so just from looking around and talking to other composers and based on my own workflow.... I'm starting to notice a pattern.



This is a bit of a side-track from this thread, so feel free to skip my daily thesis-length post, but...

I've been shown a couple of online collaborative tools intended to help with this - if I can remember the name / website of the last one I was shown I'll post it here.

Basically, this was an online tool that was designed by a film composer and his programmer brother (I think?) and it would allow a bunch of people on the production team to keep track of ongoing revisions to a project, adding notes and comments, marking cues as "approved", with version tracking for both the picture and score, as well as tracking which members of the team had actually viewed picture and listened to score at each point in the process. It was ambitious but seemed to work. The designers envisioned a worst-case production scenario where five producers, four studio/network execs, the show-runner, and that episode's director would all want to weigh in on each and every version of each and every cue coming to them from a music team that might have a primary composer and X number of junior composers all flowing revisions their way... in other words, an almost-unmanageable nightmare scenario - the kind that I've never been involved in and which, if I were, would cause me to seriously re-think whether I was the right composer for the gig, if not re-think the entire direction my life had taken to bring me to such a point.

Although impressive, I had zero interest in using such a system. Here's a few reasons why:

- It required either uploading picture and score to their server, or posting links to SoundCloud, Vimeo, or other online hosts. Even if the uploads on these hosts were "private", something like that would never fly with any network tv series or studio film due to the tight access controls those productions require. Can you imagine if HBO found out that the team had been storing in-progress cuts of Game Of Thrones on a server they didn't have absolute control over? Heads would roll. Even though I often stream or download in-progress cuts of picture to work on, they're never on Vimeo or transferred by WeTransfer or DropBox - they're always served by a system like Dax or Pix which provide very tight security and minute-by-minute access control and auditing. Those systems allow the producers to see exactly who has viewed what version of picture, the time/date/for how long they watched it, whether they skipped over any sections, whether they paused and resumed and for how long, etc. in excruciatingly granular detail. The designers of the system I mentioned were aiming for a similar level of analysis, but didn't have the resources to handle the required security.... so it was a non-starter for projects above a certain level. For an indie film, a documentary series, or anything that the public doesn't know about yet and doesn't have a reason to go searching for on open directories, fine... but beyond that it couldn't really be used. Can you imagine the potential liability? Even if someone on the team is an absolute jedi with IT and security, chances are high that the Russians would get ahold of the season finale episode and stick it on Pirate Bay before it airs - and that's someone's ass in a sling right there.

- Similar systems are in use on the picture editing and VFX side to some degree - Pix and Dax and others - and they are fairly tightly integrated with the picture editing software to the point where the assistant editor can just hit a few keystrokes and output a new version of the picture edit right from their Avid/FCP/whatever rig and it will flow multiple versions to each of the appropriate recipients complete with version numbering, individual watermarks for each recipient, individual viewing/downloading permissions, and so on - in the secure and audit-able manner described above. But even as easy as that makes the outputting side, I've never seen the commenting / reviewing process take place inside those systems - maybe it does at some higher level of production, and/or maybe it does for the VFX and cuts, but not for the score - at least not on the type of projects I've been on. All comments and notes on the score are issued the old-fashioned way - by phone, text, or email, and it's the job of an actual human being (like the post supervisor, their assistants, assistant editors, etc.) to coordinate that comment stream and make sure that the right person gets the right notes. When it comes down to reviewing scores in progress, for me it's usually as simple as me uploading version-numbered rough score mixes right to the assistant picture editor, who drops them into the timeline of the current cut, and then outputs it via their Pix or Dax system to the producers and director - that way access control and security is maintained, and these never become my problem. Notes on the score flow back to me via email, text, or just a simple ten-minute phone call (remember those?). It's usually as simple as, "Get the composer on the phone. Charlie? I'm in the edit bay with Tom, we just watched the rough cut. Here's our notes on the score so far. All good until the gun fight, and then...." Ten minutes. Easy.

- Although I do get a copy of the picture to work from, it's watermarked with my name and I'm not authorized to re-stream or re-upload it anywhere for any reason, and most of the time I'm so paranoid about being the source of any possible leak that I keep my Video Slave computer completely air-gapped from the outside world. It is not connected to the internet, either by wire or WiFi, and the only cabling of any kind connecting to that machine is a 5-pin MIDI cable to give it timecode and the HDMI cable that connects to the tv on the wall. Of course, not every project is going to be one that hackers are frantically searching for on unsecured networks, but everyone wants to be working on the next Avengers movie, right? And you know the botnets are scanning for those files. So I haven't uploaded a Quicktime of the picture with my rough score mixed into it since about 2009 or so. Too insecure.

- But really, besides the obvious security concerns, the sheer amount of double-clicking, logging on, typing in comments, ticking off checkboxes for "approved" for each cue, getting notifications that version 4 of cue #37 out of 54 has been uploaded, logging back on... it would just be an absolute hailstorm of electronic pestering and nagging, even worse than the daily emails from Spitfire announcing yet another new product release! Maybe it's the mid-range level of projects that I wind up working on, but it's never been all that complex a process; it's never required a fancy dedicated system to manage the comment stream and versions. I can't imagine any of the directors or producers I've worked with taking the time to implement a separate system just for the score. It's far more likely that they would find a way to use the existing system they're using (if any) for comment stream management of the picture, and add a channel or whatever for the score commentary and approvals. Even if it's something as simple as a shared Google Docs spreadsheet holding nothing but text, that's still another layer of hassle that's an order of magnitude more fiddly than a phone call. There are so many moving parts on the picture side that, frankly, are much more important to them than the score and sfx are, that they may go through 27 versions of the digitally-added muzzle flashes on the gunfight scene but when it comes to the score just say, "Can the drums start a little later in the gunfight scene? Thanks." - and half the time they'll just deal with it on the dub stage with the music editor. Which is fine.

My thinking on such matters is probably not in line with others, but I always feel that the more complex the "system" that you rely upon becomes, the more likely it is that some tiny moving part will break down at the worst possible moment, causing a net loss in productivity compared to what it would have been had you just kept on working "the old way" and never spent the time to implement the system that just crapped the bed on you. Even if it's not the server, software, or some actual "thing" that malfunctions, it's often the process itself that becomes too unwieldy to survive at speed. The sheer time pressure of the gig seems to always get to the point where there isn't a minute to spare, and all the protruding edges of the operation will get sand-blasted off as airspeed passes Mach 2. So at that point it becomes simpler to just send the updated version of the cue to the picture editor's assistant, who you KNOW can get the director to look at it since they'll already be showing them version 27 of the digital muzzle-flash VFX, and have them just call or text "yay or nay" on the cue. Or dump the whole communication problem on someone in the post supervisor's team, and ask them to help coordinate communication with the impossible-to-get-on-the-phone producer, and help or delegate the approval and version tracking of the score in progress.

TL;DR = If such a thing as a digitally-assisted system for score version tracking and comment stream management exists or could exist, I hope I never have to use it.


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 27, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Oh I see. In that case, I think its a bit more tricky in this situation when you only have a small, traileresque sequence cut scene (with the end logo etc) and no director or editor to work with .
> 
> I totally agree about not going overboard with hit points but at the same time, this needs to be impactful and get the judges attention. Honestly, I don't think they are looking for 4 mins of underscore here. I've seen so many where someone has just looped the same motif or beat across almost the whole thing whilst only attempting to hit a couple of scenes and it just sounds awkward.
> 
> The whole thing is a very fine line to tread!




Definitely - I think Geoff and Hans' point was less 'don't hit the hitpoints' and more 'don't just react to big, obvious kinetic stuff' - there's drama in the way motivations are revealed, exposition is presented, stakes are raised etc - those moments might not have big thumping visual blocks to 'hit' musically, but the music needs to follow/anticipate/underscore the story of the scene. As you said, just sitting on a groove for 4 minutes isn't scoring for picture.


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## korgscrew2000 (May 27, 2020)

charlieclouser said:


> Can you imagine if HBO found out that the team had been storing in-progress cuts of Game Of Thrones on a server they didn't have absolute control over? Heads would roll.



If you meant that pun or not, bravo.


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## charlieclouser (May 27, 2020)

korgscrew2000 said:


> If you meant that pun or not, bravo.



Hahaha it was unintentional for sure, but now that you mention it I see the sheer genius in it!

Another thought on my diatribe is that the level of micro-detail-management that the post team has to deal with on the visual and sfx side is such that they would prefer to deal with a single failure point on the score - the composer - who can operate as a single destination for comments and notes, and then whether it's just one person or an entire army below them is not the concern of the producers. While they might have to deal with a dozen VFX houses to get all the CGI done in the allotted time, the producers won't be tracking versions and comments to all dozen of those providers themselves, they'll be issuing comments to the VFX supervisor, who will then figure out which VFX house they need to get on the horn to and scream at - one house does the muzzle flashes, one is doing the wire removal, etc. So the composer is sort of like the VFX supervisor - a point-source for all things score, and downstream is your problem. Got to make it as easy as possible for the producers, and teaching them to use your Slack channel for comment management is just another layer of hassle they don't need.

Far more likely that the production would say, "Oh by the way, we use Slack/DaxComment/systemX for version tracking, approvals, and comment management. Let me give you a login for the system" and then you integrate with THEIR workflow, as opposed to you telling them what system you use for that.


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## Brian Smallwood (May 27, 2020)

Hi, this is a first for me in so many ways - from film scoring and using a trial DAW, to going public with my musical efforts. I found it a lot of fun, and yes very tricky and time hungry! I would tweak one small part only to find the tweak was in fact an avalanche of changes. I hope you enjoy it, if you didn't that is fine too - I love learning and accept all advice!

 

My entry for the Westworld Scoring Competition 2020


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## bc3po (May 27, 2020)

Best of luck to everyone!


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## Pincel (May 27, 2020)

I've been thinking about it lately and watching these 'crazy' genre-focused entries, and the thing with the genre change is REALLY tough, because nothing in the picture really changes to that degree... If you go too deep with it, you may be scoring the character's psyche for the moment ('he's changing genres'), but then you will possibly lose the feel and focus of the picture... Look, I agree that they're likely not looking for your typical action-thriller score, but please be honest, and tell me if the picture warrants anything else?...

It's a fine scene for what it is, but there's nothing earth shaking about it, and certainly nothing that will justify some crazy musical change. I really, really enjoyed some of the crazy out of left-field entries so far in a musical sense, but I didn't think any of them fit the picture well honestly... For the record, I think the same about the original version with the 'Valkyries'. That just didn't cut it for me... I get the concept of the genre-change, it's really cool on paper, but I don't know, it just doesn't do it for me. And same for any entry that goes bonkers with the genre change, it suddenly loses all focus with what's happening in front of my eyes. So, my entry might have been as generic as they come, but I swear I couldn't make anything else work, and I tried... I don't know, maybe I'm just too dull as a composer. 

That said, maybe that's exactly what they want. For all we know the winner will have some batshit crazy Salsa-meets-Ancient Chinese court music hybrid that will take the thing to another level of craziness.

I'd be lying if I said I'm not very curious to see what the winners will do!


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## FuzyDunlop (May 27, 2020)

Pincel said:


> That said, maybe that's exactly what they want. For all we know the winner will have some batshit crazy Salsa-meets-Ancient Chinese court music hybrid that will take the thing to another level of craziness.



I would be extremely surprised if something like that won. But it's very likely I have no idea what I'm talking about. And no one really knows what they're looking for. 

I agree with everything else that you said.


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## Eptesicus (May 27, 2020)

Pincel said:


> I've been thinking about it lately and watching these 'crazy' genre-focused entries, and the thing with the genre change is REALLY tough, because nothing in the picture really changes to that degree... If you go too deep with it, you may be scoring the character's psyche for the moment ('he's changing genres'), but then you will possibly lose the feel and focus of the picture... Look, I agree that they're likely not looking for your typical action-thriller score, but please be honest, and tell me if the picture warrants anything else?...
> 
> It's a fine scene for what it is, but there's nothing earth shaking about it, and certainly nothing that will justify some crazy musical change. I really, really enjoyed some of the crazy out of left-field entries so far in a musical sense, but I didn't think any of them fit the picture well honestly... For the record, I think the same about the original version with the 'Valkyries'. That just didn't cut it for me... I get the concept of the genre-change, it's really cool on paper, but I don't know, it just doesn't do it for me. And same for any entry that goes bonkers with the genre change, it suddenly loses all focus with what's happening in front of my eyes. So, my entry might have been as generic as they come, but I swear I couldn't make anything else work, and I tried... I don't know, maybe I'm just too dull as a composer.
> 
> ...



My reasoning is - why choose this particular scene which is entirely focused around him being on the "genre" drug and experiencing this crazy car chase/fight etc.

I'm convinced the winner will have successfully pulled off demonstrating he is on the genre changing drug but without it being silly.


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## Pincel (May 27, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I would be extremely surprised if something like that won. But it's very likely I have no idea what I'm talking about. And no one really knows what they're looking for.
> 
> I agree with everything else that you said.



I'd be really surprised too, but who knows... This would be super straight forward to score if it the dude with glasses kept his mouth shut and didn't tell us about the genre thing. It's all his fault!


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## Pincel (May 27, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> My reasoning is - why choose this particular scene which is entirely focused around him being on the "genre" drug and experiencing this crazy car chase/fight etc.
> 
> I'm convinced the winner will have successfully pulled off demonstrating he is on the genre changing drug but without it being silly.



Yes, I agree it has to matter, that's why they chose this particular scene and I'm absolutely sure the winners will acknowledge it well enough. I was just saying that personally I wasn't able to make it work because the picture really didn't lead me to it. But I'm sure it is very possible to do it well enough, it just takes a much more capable and imaginative composer than me to do it.

But, it's a very fine balance, you can't go too overboard with it, otherwise it becomes silly as you said.


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## Eptesicus (May 27, 2020)

Pincel said:


> Yes, I agree it has to matter, that's why they chose this particular scene and I'm absolutely sure the winners will acknowledge it well enough. I was just saying that personally I wasn't able to make it work because the picture really didn't lead me to it. But I'm sure it is very possible to do it well enough, it just takes a much more capable and imaginative composer than me to do it.
> 
> But, it's a very fine balance, you can't go too overboard with it, otherwise it becomes silly as you said.



Oh it is. Someone will nail it though.


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## Dan Drebing (May 27, 2020)

Pincel said:


> But, it's a very fine balance, you can't go too overboard with it, otherwise it becomes silly as you said.





Eptesicus said:


> Oh it is. Someone will nail it though.


This is why I'm really excited to see the winning entry. It really is a razor's edge.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 27, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> My reasoning is - why choose this particular scene which is entirely focused around him being on the "genre" drug and experiencing this crazy car chase/fight etc.



Because it has a score that is largely not original or owned by HBO.


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## Eptesicus (May 27, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> Because it has a score that is largely not original or owned by HBO.



Not sure why that matters? They own it all so could have chosen any scene.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 27, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Not sure why that matters? They own it all so could have chosen any scene.



True, but of a three season show why choose a scene that doesn't really have an original score? I guess that could be a frequent thing, I haven't watched it.


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## Michael Stibor (May 27, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> I'm convinced the winner will have successfully pulled off demonstrating he is on the genre changing drug but without it being silly.


That’s what I’ve been saying from the beginning. I don’t think you have to reinvent the musical wheel here, but there needs to be something unique in there in order to stand out.

Anyone can make generic action music (and I have about three hundred Westworld entries to prove it), and anyone can make the “genre” part deviate from the normal action cue course, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to work.

Im curious if anyone has seen one yet that both stands out and is unique, and works effectively with the Westworld clip yet.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 27, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> That’s what I’ve been saying from the beginning. I don’t think you have to reinvent the musical wheel here, but there needs to be something unique in there in order to stand out.
> 
> Anyone can make generic action music (and I have about three hundred Westworld entries to prove it), and anyone can make the “genre” part deviate from the normal action cue course, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to work.
> 
> Im curious if anyone has seen one yet that both stands out and is unique, and works effectively with the Westworld clip yet.



I don't think we're going to get any kind of groundbreakingly original music out of this clip, some kind of music that no one has ever heard before. But I have seen tons that I thought were really good and fit perfectly. They all have a lot of things in common, but no two people are ever going to come up with the same exact piece of music. Too many people overthink 'originality' and the music ends up sounding contrived. IMO.


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## becolossal (May 27, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> That’s what I’ve been saying from the beginning. I don’t think you have to reinvent the musical wheel here, but there needs to be something unique in there in order to stand out.
> 
> Anyone can make generic action music (and I have about three hundred Westworld entries to prove it), and anyone can make the “genre” part deviate from the normal action cue course, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to work.
> 
> Im curious if anyone has seen one yet that both stands out and is unique, and works effectively with the Westworld clip yet.



Depends on how you approach it, I guess. Are you approaching it as a contest – trying to 'stand out', or are you trying to write something that best fits the scene? I think the first approach is what lends itself to folks overthinking the entire process and hitting extremes.

To answer your question about unique and effective, I think the @Dan Drebing waltz piece is the best marriage of stuff I've seen. The way that waltz plays with those cars drifting around corners is ridiculously effective and entertaining (which is really what we all should be trying to do). There are loads of great entries that are solid, good, and effective, but if I were giving out the prize today on concept alone, I'd give it to him hands down. 

But that's my opinion, which is subjective. And the judges will also have their own subjective opinions, which is why this discussion makes for great forum fodder and not much beyond that. There's no brief here, no direction, nothing. I believe that's intentional so that folks felt free to explore whatever they wanted, not obsess over what is the right or wrong approach to the scene - let alone the right or wrong approach to the contest. Nobody's going to be sending you an email that your submission was wrong (unless of course you violated some rules...lol).

To paraphrase @charlieclouser, it's a killer opportunity to put your work in front of some killer people in the industry. Have fun with it. Full stop.


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## Michael Stibor (May 27, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> I don't think we're going to get any kind of groundbreakingly original music out of this clip, some kind of music that no one has ever heard before. But I have seen tons that I thought were really good and fit perfectly. They all have a lot of things in common, but no two people are ever going to come up with the same exact piece of music. Too many people overthink 'originality' and the music ends up sounding contrived. IMO.


Oh no for sure. I don’t think anyone’s expected to make groundmaking music on this video. But rote action music likely won’t cut either. There’s a lot of room to experiment though. Maybe using exotic instruments, or something.

At the very beginning, I tried ‘temp’ing it with different music over top just to see what would happen. Using everything from surf music to Blue Danube. It can all work if it’s done properly.


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## Eptesicus (May 27, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> At the very beginning, I tried ‘temp’ing it with different music over top just to see what would happen. Using everything from surf music to Blue Danube. It can all work if it’s done properly.



That is what i did!


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## quickbrownf0x (May 27, 2020)

charlieclouser said:


> This is a bit of a side-track from this thread, so feel free to skip my daily thesis-length post, but...
> 
> I've been shown a couple of online collaborative tools intended to help with this - if I can remember the name / website of the last one I was shown I'll post it here.
> 
> ...



Hey Charlie, first - sorry for posting something that was somewhat off-topic. Your earlier response just made me think about something I've wondered about for a while. So I figured I'd just ask.
Second - Jesus, dude, thanks for all of this. Definitely helps and I can totally see what you mean.



> TL;DR = If such a thing as a digitally-assisted system for score version tracking and comment stream management exists or could exist, I hope I never have to use it.


Got it, fair enough.  Anybody else feel the same way?


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## charlieclouser (May 27, 2020)

quickbrownf0x said:


> Hey Charlie, first - sorry for posting something that was somewhat off-topic. Your earlier response just made me think about something I've wondered about for a while. So I figured I'd just ask.
> Second - Jesus, dude, thanks for all of this. Definitely helps and I can totally see what you mean.
> 
> 
> Got it, fair enough.  Anybody else feel the same way?



I bet that some composers / teams on bigger, more unwieldy projects use such a system for version-tracking and comment stream management - like on big AAA video game titles where there are a zillion musical molecules and sound assets flying around and being tweaked / updated across a two-year period of development. But I would also bet that the system in use comes from the producer's side and the music / sound team are instructed to use that instead of bringing their own system to the table. 

One project I was on had such a system in place but it was basically a shared online to-do list that resembled a spreadsheet, where they could add new items and we would be auto-notified that new items had been added, and then as the project progressed we could mark them as in-progress, completed, revised, etc., and they could add comments and mark them as approved, delivered, accepted, etc. This system was text-based and did not actually include any of the asset files, so security wasn't as big an issue but they still hosted it on their own secure systems because even a list of cut-scenes and boss-battles was something they wanted to keep secret from the rabid game fans out there. 

I'd imagine that a similar system is probably used in-house on bigger music teams, where a lead composer has a half-dozen juniors chipping away at the day-to-day cue list for the rack of weekly tv episodes they need to churn out, but then it can all be kept inside the building and assets don't need to be shared / included in the actual collaboration sheet. So in their case it might be as simple as a Google Docs sheet or something like that, and it probably is only viewed / changed by the music team inside the building as opposed to be something that the producers/director/execs actually see. But who knows.

The two problems I had with the system I was shown really boiled down to asset security and "hailstorm avoidance", although other composers at the same get-together seemed enthusiastic about trying the system, which was still in development and being finalized in preparation for roll out. I'll ask around and see what became of it, this was six months ago or so.


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## Mark Evans (May 27, 2020)

well, here's my ("Head south!") slightly wonky Mexican brass band entry. Had I started about two years ago I might have managed some piquant harmonies and subtle orchestration stuff. But I didn't, so there aren't.


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## quickbrownf0x (May 28, 2020)

charlieclouser said:


> I bet that some composers / teams on bigger, more unwieldy projects use such a system for version-tracking and comment stream management - like on big AAA video game titles where there are a zillion musical molecules and sound assets flying around and being tweaked / updated across a two-year period of development. But I would also bet that the system in use comes from the producer's side and the music / sound team are instructed to use that instead of bringing their own system to the table.
> 
> One project I was on had such a system in place but it was basically a shared online to-do list that resembled a spreadsheet, where they could add new items and we would be auto-notified that new items had been added, and then as the project progressed we could mark them as in-progress, completed, revised, etc., and they could add comments and mark them as approved, delivered, accepted, etc. This system was text-based and did not actually include any of the asset files, so security wasn't as big an issue but they still hosted it on their own secure systems because even a list of cut-scenes and boss-battles was something they wanted to keep secret from the rabid game fans out there.
> 
> ...



Right, that makes alot of sense. So speaking as a designer you can see how one might go 'hey, look at all these (apparent) pain points/obstacles/inefficiencies, not just in pure workflow, but also the way you convey ideas to eachother as creatives. Maybe there's a way to remove at least some of that friction?'.
15 years ago I was fresh out of music school, ended up going back to my design roots (like so many of my former classmates - wasn't able to make a real living out of composing; responsibilities, etc.). Now I'm in a better position and I'm slowly picking up my composer hat again. BUT it made me think, because the market has changed so much and there are so many good composers out there. You just have to browse around in this thread alone.

So this means you need to have your unique selling point, right? What if you'd separate yourself from others by not only being a great composer, but also offer a more efficient way of communicating, in particular the way you exchange stories with say, the director? You'd save a ton of time _and _have a leg up on your fellow colleagues, true? This is where my idea of the tool I mentioned comes from. Basically born out of my own need to position myself once I get my chops back up to speed. AND of course, to help my fellow composer friends.

Anyway, I'm actually seriously thinking about taking this idea on, do some research. You think that would make sense? If so, would you or any of you reading this be willing to help me out? I'd probably start with doing some interviews, some fancy remote design workshops - all that. Everybody's at home organizing their sock drawers anyway, if I'm not mistaken. Except Hz. Obviously. 

I'll turn this into a new, proper post if indeed anybody's interested. Again, sorry for being a little bit off-topic.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 28, 2020)

quickbrownf0x said:


> Right, that makes alot of sense. So speaking as a designer you can see how one might go 'hey, look at all these (apparent) pain points/obstacles/inefficiencies, not just in pure workflow, but also the way you convey ideas to eachother as creatives. Maybe there's a way to remove at least some of that friction?'.
> 15 years ago I was fresh out of music school, ended up going back to my design roots (like so many of my former classmates - wasn't able to make a real living out of composing; responsibilities, etc.). Now I'm in a better position and I'm slowly picking up my composer hat again. BUT it made me think, because the market has changed so much and there are so many good composers out there. You just have to browse around in this thread alone.
> 
> So this means you need to have your unique selling point, right? What if you'd separate yourself from others by not only being a great composer, but also offer a more efficient way of communicating, in particular the way you exchange stories with say, the director? You'd save a ton of time _and _have a leg up on your fellow colleagues, true? This is where my idea of the tool I mentioned comes from. Basically born out of my own need to position myself once I get my chops back up to speed. AND of course, to help my fellow composer friends.
> ...



Hmm, I don't know if having access to some kind of software really warrants a good _selling point_. Either this software is available widespread and it becomes expected that you know how to use it, or this software is something you operate privately and your clients either have to face a learning curve (which creates an anti-selling point) or would be highly skeptical to use it in the first place.

Nothing wrong with a new widespread piece of software, though.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 28, 2020)

Alright, this isn't mine but I'm posting it here because it's definitely my favorite:



Handles the genre change perfectly IMO.


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## L-A Desire (May 28, 2020)

Adding my entry to the list, and at last discovering what others have done  If you have time to listen to it, please let me know what you think (criticism really appreciated). Thanks!


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## Eptesicus (May 28, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> Alright, this isn't mine but I'm posting it here because it's definitely my favorite:
> 
> 
> 
> Handles the genre change perfectly IMO.




This is really good. One of the better ones definitely. 

However:

Not my favourite spotting decisions ( felt a little out of sync in places - if your going to hit the hit points, hit them) and I wonder if it may be too similar to the original. 

I also felt a bit fatigued by the end of it because it was all the same loud fantasy orchestral stuff from the genre change to the end (pretty much).

I'm just being hyper critical though, and guessing where the judges my mark it down.


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## Thysmusic.com (May 28, 2020)

I feel like someone could write a small book or podcast series about all the insights from @charlieclouser in these two westworld competition threads, jeez!

At least a separate thread is warranted with all the nuggets of knowledge about the actual world of scoring movies, a fresh change from disccusions about discounts on sample libraries. Not trying to diss the world of discounts on libraries, but for some of us here it's not why we come here. We come here either to learn about how to use our tools, or to learn about the practice of putting those tools to use in the real world.

Thank you Mr Clouser for choosing to share the knowledge!


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## Michael Stibor (May 28, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> This is really good. One of the better ones definitely.
> 
> However:
> 
> ...


Also, the music seems very loud in comparison to the audio track. 
I like the idea of it, and it’s well executed on a musical level. But otherwise, I’m not sure it would be my pick.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 28, 2020)

It's almost like music is subjective.


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## Eptesicus (May 28, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> It's almost like music is subjective.



I wasn't saying it wasn't good. It is up there with some other great ones i have seen too.

It didn't make me go "holy **** that's good" or give the old musical tingle on the back of my spine though .

My comments were more attuned to why i don't think it will win (i realise you didn't specifically say you thought it was going to win, i was just musing).

The winner is going to deliver a "holy ****" moment.


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## FuzyDunlop (May 28, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> I wasn't saying it wasn't good. It is up there with some other great ones i have seen too.
> 
> It didn't make me go "holy **** that's good" or give the old musical tingle on the back of my spine though .
> 
> ...


I don't think it will win, no. Just the one that fit my tastes the most. I have yet to have one blow my socks off but this came closest. 

I also do think there is value in discussing what works or doesn't work in any piece of art.


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## Cheezus (May 28, 2020)

FuzyDunlop said:


> Alright, this isn't mine but I'm posting it here because it's definitely my favorite:
> 
> 
> 
> Handles the genre change perfectly IMO.




I like this one too. Most of the entries sound a lot like Dark Knight but this one actually sounds more like Batman 89.


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## Lex (May 28, 2020)

So nice to see that so many people are doing this! 
Question....are we allowed to change source audio and try to get rid of those annoying clipping/clicks? 

alex


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## Michael Stibor (May 28, 2020)

Lex said:


> So nice to see that so many people are doing this!
> Question....are we allowed to change source audio and try to get rid of those annoying clipping/clicks?
> 
> alex


Clipping/clicks? I don’t hear any of that.


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## jononotbono (May 28, 2020)

Lex said:


> So nice to see that so many people are doing this!
> Question....are we allowed to change source audio and try to get rid of those annoying clipping/clicks?
> 
> alex



Where are the “clipping/clicks” Sounds? Curious because I’ve not heard any. Are you by chance referring to the sound of the car tyre going over small hole which pops out (but isn’t audio clipping or clicking)?


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## Lex (May 28, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Where are the “clipping/clicks” Sounds? Curious because I’ve not heard any. Are you by chance referring to the sound of the car tyre going over small hole which pops out (but isn’t audio clipping or clicking)?



At 0:53, 1:04 and 2:57. Sounds like digital clipping to me.


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## jononotbono (May 28, 2020)

Lex said:


> At 0:53, 1:04 and 2:57. Sounds like digital clipping to me.



0:53 is the car noise I just described.

Shit, I think I might have watched this a couple of times 

There’s no clipping in the dx/sfx track.


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## Lex (May 28, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> 0:53 is the car noise I just described.
> 
> Shit, I think I might have watched this a couple of times
> 
> There’s no clipping in the dx/sfx track.



But you can hear the same clicking noise all 3 times, makes no sense to hear sound of car clicking during explosion at 2:57.

Anyhow, I was just wondering if tampering with source track will get you disqualified?

alex


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## jononotbono (May 28, 2020)

Lex said:


> But you can hear the same clicking noise all 3 times, makes no sense to hear sound of car clicking during explosion at 2:57.
> 
> Anyhow, I was just wondering if tampering with source track will get you disqualified?
> 
> alex



I think you can do whatever you want with the dx/sfx track otherwise nobody would be able to compress it and use it in a mix. It states that the video footage can’t be altered in anyway but nothing to do with the audio.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 28, 2020)

I think I will finally post my entry... I'd really appreciate any harsh criticism (and would be especially grateful if any bigger composers chimed in.) Why would I want to hear the bad stuff? Because unfortunately I think the entry is pretty darn good, and if I really want to learn and improve upon anything at this point, it's gotta come from judgement _other_ than mine. Anyhow:


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## Lex (May 28, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I think you can do whatever you want with the dx/sfx track otherwise nobody would be able to compress it and use it in a mix. It states that the video footage can’t be altered in anyway but nothing to do with the audio.



Cool Thanks!

alex


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## Michael Stibor (May 28, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I think I will finally post my entry... I'd really appreciate any harsh criticism (and would be especially grateful if any bigger composers chimed in.) Why would I want to hear the bad stuff? Because unfortunately I think the entry is pretty darn good, and if I really want to learn and improve upon anything at this point, it's gotta come from judgement _other_ than mine. Anyhow:



I always try to watch the entries from a directors perspective, and not from a “musician who’s also entering the contest” perspective. I’d say that you’re right. It’s overall very good, so no need for any harsh criticism. Your spotting is good, the music’s overall tone is good, and the production is top notch.

If I had a criticism though, it’d be that the intensity is off the charts all the way through. There’s no peaks and valleys. It starts off at 11 from the first gunfire and stays there until the end. And in that sense, it doesn’t always work. But it’s less about the actual notes and composition, and maybe more about the orchestration. But again, I’m only saying that ‘cause you asked. Otherwise, it’s very good!


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## CT (May 28, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I'd really appreciate any harsh criticism



Ok. It's produced well and taken on its own is probably a little more interesting than your average cinematic action music, but it feels over the top for this scene and not really all that connected to it, neither conceptually nor structurally, though where the latter is concerned I understand the aversion some people have to being too in sync with things.

The main "hit point" you do acknowledge (apart from the missile approach), the overhead shot after the initial underground stuff, is late, which as we know is better than being early, but this feels *too* late.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 28, 2020)

miket said:


> Ok. It's produced well and taken on its own is probably a little more interesting than your average cinematic action music, but it feels over the top for this scene and not really all that connected to it, neither conceptually nor structurally, though where the latter is concerned I understand the aversion some people have to being too in sync with things.
> 
> The main "hit point" you do acknowledge (apart from the middle approach), the overhead shot after the initial underground stuff, is late, which as we know is better than being early, but this feels *too* late.



Thanks Mike, appreciate it. Considering how I've paced it, if a client asked me to sync up that hitpoint, I'd probably try to place a bit of a tempo accel prior to it so that it syncs; but then after that it'd have thrown everything else off. Do you have any other ideas how such an issue could be tackled? You probably have more experience in that than me (this is my 2nd time scoring to motion picture.) Cheers


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## Timothy Schmidt (May 28, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I think I will finally post my entry... I'd really appreciate any harsh criticism (and would be especially grateful if any bigger composers chimed in.) Why would I want to hear the bad stuff? Because unfortunately I think the entry is pretty darn good, and if I really want to learn and improve upon anything at this point, it's gotta come from judgement _other_ than mine. Anyhow:




Hi Karl,

I've been following what you and the others have been discussing these last few weeks and was very curious to see what you'd produce. Now that you've shared it with us (thanks!), I think your entry is one of the most timbrally solid ones I've heard. It is well-balanced and fits the futuristic action vibe quite well. Musically, it works too - the cue as a whole is very cohesive, due in large part to your rather unique decision to center around a 7/8 time siganture. It's a welcome splash of innovation, freeing you to throw in motifs and transitional devices those of us in the 4/4 mindset don't tend to approach. 

That being said, I immediately thought the tempo you picked doesn't work for this sequence; it is too slow. Since the cars aren't actually moving very quickly, the music becomes vital to communicating a real sense of urgency, which yours does not. Your cue seems like it'd work great for a fight scene between lumbering monsters, or a chase through a forest with lots of obstacles in the path of the protagonists, or something like that. A slow starting tempo might have worked in the beginning, but even then, the chase is 100% panic from the moment gunshots are fired.

The other problem with your tempo is that it detroys the freshness of the irregular meter. After only a minute or so, the 7/8 groove becomes stale to my ears - though you're keeping the piece interesting through other means (motivic variation, instrumentation changes, etc), the incessant slow-feeling rhythm doesn't go anywhere. This results in your music feeling like it has no direction - it really is more underscore than narrative support, which undercuts the clear narrative arc of the clip (attack beginning, chase middle, retaliation end).

In short, like most of the entries I've heard, you are clearly an apt composer and have a unique voice, but you didn't adapt enough to this scene. The ideas are there, but they do not evolve throughout the scene as I expected they would. This is mostly a byproduct of the slow tempo you picked in conjunction with your decision to hold fast to the 7/8 meter. Out of curiosity, are familiar with the BvS cue "Is She With You?" That for me is the model 7/8 action cue by which all others can learn.

Best,

Timothy Schmidt


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 28, 2020)

Timothy Schmidt said:


> Hi Karl,
> 
> I've been following what you and the others have been discussing these last few weeks and was very curious to see what you'd produce. Now that you've shared it with us (thanks!), I think your entry is one of the most timbrally solid ones I've heard. It is well-balanced and fits the futuristic action vibe quite well. Musically, it works too - the cue as a whole is very cohesive, due in large part to your rather unique decision to center around a 7/8 time siganture. It's a welcome splash of innovation, freeing you to throw in motifs and transitional devices those of us in the 4/4 mindset don't tend to approach.
> 
> ...



Wow, this is tons of great feedback. Thanks Timothy. I am familiar with the track you mentioned, though had not studied it in the past. Perhaps the film deserves another watch 

Also, is this really your first post? I didn't realize this initially. That's particularly kind of you. Much appreciated.


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## Richard Wilkinson (May 28, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I think I will finally post my entry... I'd really appreciate any harsh criticism (and would be especially grateful if any bigger composers chimed in.) Why would I want to hear the bad stuff? Because unfortunately I think the entry is pretty darn good, and if I really want to learn and improve upon anything at this point, it's gotta come from judgement _other_ than mine. Anyhow:



I think that's great. I'd lose the french horn sustains towards the end - maybe it's too much at the same level for too long - at the start as well (the reaction to the gunfire is good, but maybe a bit too busy), but for the most part it's really well done. 
Also I'd lose the percussion at a couple of points. The momentum is still there in the string lines so I think you could get a little more light and shade in the arrangement. I like that you hit that helicopter shot, but didn't do it anywhere near the cut. Still worked fine. And I liked the decision to end the music on the car/bike impact rather than just before the BANG.

Some of the string stuff was maybe a little bit expressionless - you could do a pass on timing/dynamics for realism too. Mostly just splitting hairs now.

Great work.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 28, 2020)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> I think that's great. I'd lose the french horn sustains towards the end - maybe it's too much at the same level for too long - at the start as well (the reaction to the gunfire is good, but maybe a bit too busy), but for the most part it's really well done.
> Also I'd lose the percussion at a couple of points. The momentum is still there in the string lines so I think you could get a little more light and shade in the arrangement. I like that you hit that helicopter shot, but didn't do it anywhere near the cut. Still worked fine. And I liked the decision to end the music on the car/bike impact rather than just before the BANG.
> 
> Some of the string stuff was maybe a little bit expressionless - you could do a pass on timing/dynamics for realism too. Mostly just splitting hairs now.
> ...



Thanks very much. I honestly wasn't too sure about the final chords with all the horns... I don't write a lot of those big, multi-voiced chords too often, so I just tried to do what I could by ear.

About the strings stuff; one thing I realized writing this cue... nobody has sampled legato tremolo (or at least not in any of the libraries I own.) And while there's a good reason for that, for something like the phrases I wrote for the car chases, it might've helped :D


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 28, 2020)

mikefrommontreal said:


> I always try to watch the entries from a directors perspective, and not from a “musician who’s also entering the contest” perspective. I’d say that you’re right. It’s overall very good, so no need for any harsh criticism. Your spotting is good, the music’s overall tone is good, and the production is top notch.
> 
> If I had a criticism though, it’d be that the intensity is off the charts all the way through. There’s no peaks and valleys. It starts off at 11 from the first gunfire and stays there until the end. And in that sense, it doesn’t always work. But it’s less about the actual notes and composition, and maybe more about the orchestration. But again, I’m only saying that ‘cause you asked. Otherwise, it’s very good!



Sorry, I missed this one! Thanks for the feedback. Seems a popular suggestion that the dynamics need some more room to breathe, so that the 11 has more weight when heard again


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## Mark Evans (May 28, 2020)

L-A Desire said:


> Adding my entry to the list, and at last discovering what others have done  If you have time to listen to it, please let me know what you think (criticism really appreciated). Thanks!




I liked it. It has a nice, slightly old-school vibe to it (the words "Elmer Bernstein" popped into my head, but I'm not going to check YT to see if I know what my subconscious is talking about lol). The one thing I didn't wholly go for was the (?) staccato part from about 18 seconds in up to the genre change moment, which felt to me a bit too 'four-square' (again, I'm not sure if that's the right word), that it needed a hint of syncopation or being doubled up.


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## quickbrownf0x (May 28, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> Hmm, I don't know if having access to some kind of software really warrants a good _selling point_. Either this software is available widespread and it becomes expected that you know how to use it, or this software is something you operate privately and your clients either have to face a learning curve (which creates an anti-selling point) or would be highly skeptical to use it in the first place.
> 
> Nothing wrong with a new widespread piece of software, though.



Cheers Karl, very helpful. 👍


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## silouane (May 28, 2020)

Here is mine !


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## Michael Stibor (May 28, 2020)

silouane said:


> Here is mine !



This is really good!


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## Michael Stibor (May 28, 2020)

So this has been such a rewarding experience, and I've learned so much over the past month (including when to cut your losses and start over) and below is the result.

I was definitely going for an 80s action film style vibe, but combined with a modern approach. I have no idea if I succeeded, but its been fun to try anyway!

Thank you to all who helped answer my questions, as well as to Charlie, Hans, and everyone else who provided such great insight. I'm now that much better of a composer because of you all. I hope you like it!


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## David Kudell (May 28, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> So this has been such a rewarding experience, and I've learned so much over the past month (including when to cut your losses and start over) and below is the result.
> 
> I was definitely going for an 80s action film style vibe, but combined with a modern approach. I have no idea if I succeeded, but its been fun to try anyway!
> 
> Thank you to all who helped answer my questions, as well as to Charlie, Hans, and everyone else who provided such great insight. I'm now that much better of a composer because of you all. I hope you like it!



I really enjoyed this. My favorite part was at 2:00 when he pops out of the car, I really like how you brought in the drums and horns there. The 80's action vibe was fun. Nice work!


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## Supremo (May 28, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> So this has been such a rewarding experience, and I've learned so much over the past month (including when to cut your losses and start over) and below is the result.
> 
> I was definitely going for an 80s action film style vibe, but combined with a modern approach. I have no idea if I succeeded, but its been fun to try anyway!
> 
> Thank you to all who helped answer my questions, as well as to Charlie, Hans, and everyone else who provided such great insight. I'm now that much better of a composer because of you all. I hope you like it!




Very good overall but I just have a feeling that the tempo doesn’t quite match the intensity of the scene in general.
The cars seem to move even slower with that music in the background...
But again, who am I to judge. ))
Your work is really interesting and brings a fresh vibe for sure!


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## redlester (May 29, 2020)

My own effort at last. Had great fun doing this. Decided to go for quite minimalist approach in much of it, to let the action breathe. If I did it again 5 times they would all be totally different.


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## Juan Carlos (May 29, 2020)

Grandes trabajos chicos, realmente que disfruté felicidades


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## Michael Stibor (May 29, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> I really enjoyed this. My favorite part was at 2:00 when he pops out of the car, I really like how you brought in the drums and horns there. The 80's action vibe was fun. Nice work!


Hey thanks! I appreciate it!


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## Michael Stibor (May 29, 2020)

Supremo said:


> Very good overall but I just have a feeling that the tempo doesn’t quite match the intensity of the scene in general.
> The cars seem to move even slower with that music in the background...
> But again, who am I to judge. ))
> Your work is really interesting and brings a fresh vibe for sure!


Thanks for this. As for the cars, hmmm. I’m not sure I was scoring the cars so much. I was just thinking heartbeats. What would the panic level be of the people in the cars, etc. Thanks though!


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## Yogevs (May 29, 2020)

Here's my entry - I hope you like it.
Would love some feedback !


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## Stefelduc (May 29, 2020)

Hello,
Please find here my entry. I definitely enjoyed doing it.
I hope you will appreciate, and of course any comments and feedbacks are welcome.
Thank you.


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## EricBarndollar (May 29, 2020)

Guess I'll toss another one in 

I tried to keep continuity through the whole cue but also introduce a genre change element. No idea if I pulled it off, but I definitely had fun putting this together!

(EDIT: Ended up tweaking mix & updating my submission -- here's the new version)



Feedback always appreciated. (And thanks all for the great discussions on this thread -- definitely helped shape my approach).

- Eric


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 29, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> Here's my entry - I hope you like it.
> Would love some feedback !




This is a really good entry, but here is my feedback:

0:20s - I don't think the cymbal crash works with the tone of the action. I think what might be better here is some big, beefy Bartok snaps, but that's literally what I used haha. They still provide the high frequencies but the cymbal is too washy for this dark action scene in my opinion. Alternatively you might experiment with changing the pitch of the crash or finding some other big percussive sounds to use to accent those beats. This sound just feels too bright and doesn't do it for me, but otherwise the main groove during the intro chase feels pretty good.

0:35s - ah, Caleb's tripout scene. This one's a tough nut to crack for everybody. I feel you played it way too minimalistically; you might want to keep the rhythm going and just dial some things down. Your goals should be to stay out of the way of the dialogue, while still keeping the pace so the audience knows the chase is still on. It's not like the bad guys have stopped their pursuit; so do something to keep that in the mind of the listener, or they might presume otherwise (like how in a video-game the music telegraphs that all the enemies are dead when it becomes quiet or stops. Avoid that here!)

1:32-1:40s - similarly here, there's this big quiet part which doesn't really serve a purpose. I'd say cut right to the groove you normally start at 1:40; no silence or break, or maybe just like a single beat or measure; it needs to be really short if you want to keep that silence. Keep the pace. Anyhow, the material starting 1:40 is really awesome, and I love the sound design. It all builds good tension here. Bravo.

2:36s - I feel you might have cut the music a bit too soon.

2:45s - this string cluster effect could definitely come in sooner. There's a lot of needless silence prior to it. The sound effects of the homing-grenade really only start at 2:47; and from there on that's roughly where silence from the music can be effective, to give the sound effects room to breathe. However you have this large cap between 2:36 and 2:47; fill it in! I feel if you didn't cut the action music so soon, and you moved that string cluster to start a little sooner as well, they should be able to come together to remove this region of musical abstinence.

4:06 - your ending is a little cliche. I'd say, since you're doing the 'big build-up' kind of ending, go for something that will make the audience shit their pants a little. You want them to be like '_wow_ that was intense', just like Caleb is feeling right now after his drug-trip future-car chase, witnessing another big fiery explosion.

As you can see above, most of my suggestions relate to timing the entrances and exits of certain passages. Other than that, I think you got a really great tone for the sequence and your style of writing fits it too. Well done!


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## Dan Drebing (May 29, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> I think I will finally post my entry...




I liked this a lot, especially the instrumentation and textures. It's feels very 80's action to me (which is intended as a compliment). The only thing that stuck out is that because the piece is very big and brash with all the horns and percussion, it feels a little weird when the music cuts out during the two explosion sequences. I think I was expecting a build in both of those and maybe it feels like you lose a little momentum when the music cuts out? Regardless, that's just a creative choice and I really like the feel it overall.



silouane said:


> Here is mine !




Really cool synths and sound design throughout!


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 29, 2020)

Dan Drebing said:


> I liked this a lot, especially the instrumentation and textures. It's feels very 80's action to me (which is intended as a compliment). The only thing that stuck out is that because the piece is very big and brash with all the horns and percussion, it feels a little weird when the music cuts out during the two explosion sequences. I think I was expecting a build in both of those and maybe it feels like you lose a little momentum when the music cuts out? Regardless, that's just a creative choice and I really like the feel it overall.



I'm glad you enjoyed it, and hearing that you got an 80s vibe out of it is a great compliment! I love that era of film music. Thanks for the feedback about the silent parts too


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## schrodinger1612 (May 29, 2020)

Is anyone else a latercomer to this? 5 days to complete something which normally takes me a month!! I like a challenge though....


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## Cheezus (May 29, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> So this has been such a rewarding experience, and I've learned so much over the past month (including when to cut your losses and start over) and below is the result.
> 
> I was definitely going for an 80s action film style vibe, but combined with a modern approach. I have no idea if I succeeded, but its been fun to try anyway!
> 
> Thank you to all who helped answer my questions, as well as to Charlie, Hans, and everyone else who provided such great insight. I'm now that much better of a composer because of you all. I hope you like it!



I like this one! I'm not quite finished with mine yet but your approach is very similar to what I'm going for. I'm curious what orchestral libraries you used for this.


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 29, 2020)

schrodinger1612 said:


> Is anyone else a latercomer to this? 5 days to complete something which normally takes me a month!! I like a challenge though....



You can do it  I wrote mine in two days and spent nearly a month just listening to it over and over and tweaking the tiniest things. I had the extra time and the free time so I thought why not... but I digress. You should be able to do it if you commit / are free enough - and if you're challenging yourself like this for the first time ever, you'll learn a lot!


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## Michael Stibor (May 29, 2020)

schrodinger1612 said:


> Is anyone else a latercomer to this? 5 days to complete something which normally takes me a month!! I like a challenge though....


It’s definitely doable. I’ve been at it since it started, but basically started over from scratch last week, and finished it last night.

What I’ve learned from my own failed first attempt (as well as with the help of many here) is to not overthink the sync points, and just find the right tempo and do it. My first one jumped all over the place and I spent way too much time on it. My finished one (on the page before) basically stays at the same tempo from the two and a half minute mark on, and it basically wrote itself.


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## Michael Stibor (May 29, 2020)

Cheezus said:


> I like this one! I'm not quite finished with mine yet but your approach is very similar to what I'm going for. I'm curious what orchestral libraries you used for this.


Hey, thank you so much!

Most of the strings are CSS, and LASS lite. Horns are mostly CSB. The woodwinds are Spitfire Studio woodwinds, VSL, and Spitfire’s free EPIC woodwinds. Spitfire Bernard Hermann is sprinkled throughout, mostly for horn stabs, and any synth stuff is Uhe Diva. Oh, and percussion is NI Percussion. 

Tag me when you’re done. I’d love to hear it!


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## Dan Drebing (May 29, 2020)

schrodinger1612 said:


> Is anyone else a latercomer to this? 5 days to complete something which normally takes me a month!! I like a challenge though....


Time to keep it simple


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## schrodinger1612 (May 29, 2020)

Thanks for the encouragement! 



Dan Drebing said:


> Time to keep it simple



Yes...at the minute it’s just a stream of consciousness with my electric guitar, then onto padding it out afterwards with more orchestral elements. Maybe the time constriction will end up being a blessing...less faffing


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## Pincel (May 29, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> Thanks for this. As for the cars, hmmm. I’m not sure I was scoring the cars so much. I was just thinking heartbeats. What would the panic level be of the people in the cars, etc. Thanks though!



It's a very interesting point, that I feel could be further discussed. I like your choice of tempo, and was not bothered by it at all, as it's similar to my own choice, because I don't feel this a super intense scene, more like thrilling, so I'm kind of the opposite on this one, as it feels weird to me when people go too crazy with the tempo.
I get that one might try to make it feel more intense with a faster tempo, which can work sometimes, but everything on screen is kinda slow, it's really not one of those high-adrenaline chases in my eyes. But as usual, it's very likely the 'answer' is somewhere in the middle, just like the 'genre' thing.

It's all very subjective, so to each his own.


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## Yogevs (May 29, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> This is a really good entry, but here is my feedback:
> 
> 0:20s - I don't think the cymbal crash works with the tone of the action. I think what might be better here is some big, beefy Bartok snaps, but that's literally what I used haha. They still provide the high frequencies but the cymbal is too washy for this dark action scene in my opinion. Alternatively you might experiment with changing the pitch of the crash or finding some other big percussive sounds to use to accent those beats. This sound just feels too bright and doesn't do it for me, but otherwise the main groove during the intro chase feels pretty good.
> 
> ...



You are amazing dude. Thank you so much for the thorough feedback. As a thank you I'll find some time and do the same for your video. You are awesome.


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## Michael Stibor (May 29, 2020)

Pincel said:


> It's a very interesting point, that I feel could be further discussed. I like your choice of tempo, and was not bothered by it at all, as it's similar to my own choice, because I don't feel this a super intense scene, more like thrilling, so I'm kind of the opposite on this one, as it feels weird to me when people go too crazy with the tempo.
> I get that one might try to make it feel more intense with a faster tempo, which can work sometimes, but everything on screen is kinda slow, it's really not one of those high-adrenaline chases in my eyes. But as usual, it's very likely the 'answer' is somewhere in the middle, just like the 'genre' thing.
> 
> It's all very subjective, so to each his own.


Well I think that’s ultimately the fun part. Is that there’s no one way to approach it. I saw one guy who did it all with a very slow and somber piano. And it mostly worked, except that there was a complete disregard for any changes in ‘action’. And then I’ve seen a couple of others that were much faster than mine and almost had an industrial type sound to it. So it can really go either way.

To be completely honest, I see already what I wish I could change with mine, but the tempo isn’t one of them. I think my tempo works for the piece I wrote. Different music in a different style, maybe not.

So yeah, like you said, it’s mostly all subjective. I mean somethings just don’t work, and I’ve seen a few that I feel just flat out don’t. But it’s all in good fun, no matter what.

I think I have zero chance of actually winning the contest, and actually even forgot that there was an actual prize anyway. To me it was just about doing it. So as long as everyone enjoyed doing it and (hopefully) learned something from the experience, that’s good enough for me.


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## Pincel (May 29, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> I think I have zero chance of actually winning the contest, and actually even forgot that there was an actual prize anyway. To me it was just about doing it. So as long as everyone enjoyed doing it and (hopefully) learned something from the experience, that’s good enough for me.



Agreed. I feel the same way, it's all about trying stuff and enjoying the process.


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## Laddy (May 29, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> [...]
> 2:36s - I feel you might have cut the music a bit too soon.



Several good points here, though I respectfully disagree with this one. I think 2:36 is a very good place to cut the music, and I did it myself in my own entry. My reasoning was something like this: Caleb gets the gun, and from this moment he is no longer just a "victim running away" but has the potential to become the action hero of the story who takes charge and beats the bad guys (here I tried to introduce a sort of a "hero theme" from the moment he held the gun in his hands) He climbs up the roof of the car and the action gets more and more intense: more shooting, more danger etc, the car has to turn sharp left and he almost loses the gun, which is yet another hurdle to overcome. Finally, he regains control and he gets his chance to become the hero, and in my opinion this sequence is the biggest buildup and here we are at the most intense moment in the whole clip, (even more than the ending). 
So when he (seemingly) misses his shot, it becomes a huge anticlimax and disappointment, and by cutting the music at the precise moment the rocket misses the car, the music supports that feeilng of failure. 

Only my (hobbyist) opinion, of course


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 29, 2020)

Laddy said:


> Several good points here, though I respectfully disagree with this one. I think 2:36 is a very good place to cut the music, and I did it myself in my own entry. My reasoning was something like this: Caleb gets the gun, and from this moment he is no longer just a "victim running away" but has the potential to become the action hero of the story who takes charge and beats the bad guys (here I tried to introduce a sort of a "hero theme" from the moment he held the gun in his hands) He climbs up the roof of the car and the action gets more and more intense: more shooting, more danger etc, the car has to turn sharp left and he almost loses the gun, which is yet another hurdle to overcome. Finally, he regains control and he gets his chance to become the hero, and in my opinion this sequence is the biggest buildup and here we are at the most intense moment in the whole clip, (even more than the ending).
> So when he (seemingly) misses his shot, it becomes a huge anticlimax and disappointment, and by cutting the music at the precise moment the rocket misses the car, the music supports that feeilng of failure.
> 
> Only my (hobbyist) opinion, of course



Fair point, though I would say if you want to 'kill' the music at this point, it might be better to place something like a really (really) high note on the violins, played softly, to keep the suspense there.


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## Pincel (May 29, 2020)

Laddy said:


> Several good points here, though I respectfully disagree with this one. I think 2:36 is a very good place to cut the music, and I did it myself in my own entry. My reasoning was something like this: Caleb gets the gun, and from this moment he is no longer just a "victim running away" but has the potential to become the action hero of the story who takes charge and beats the bad guys (here I tried to introduce a sort of a "hero theme" from the moment he held the gun in his hands) He climbs up the roof of the car and the action gets more and more intense: more shooting, more danger etc, the car has to turn sharp left and he almost loses the gun, which is yet another hurdle to overcome. Finally, he regains control and he gets his chance to become the hero, and in my opinion this sequence is the biggest buildup and here we are at the most intense moment in the whole clip, (even more than the ending).
> So when he (seemingly) misses his shot, it becomes a huge anticlimax and disappointment, and by cutting the music at the precise moment the rocket misses the car, the music supports that feeilng of failure.
> 
> Only my (hobbyist) opinion, of course



I did the same on my entry, and I agree, it just felt right to me, pretty much for the reason you mentioned.


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## Michael Stibor (May 29, 2020)

Laddy said:


> Several good points here, though I respectfully disagree with this one. I think 2:36 is a very good place to cut the music, and I did it myself in my own entry. My reasoning was something like this: Caleb gets the gun, and from this moment he is no longer just a "victim running away" but has the potential to become the action hero of the story who takes charge and beats the bad guys (here I tried to introduce a sort of a "hero theme" from the moment he held the gun in his hands) He climbs up the roof of the car and the action gets more and more intense: more shooting, more danger etc, the car has to turn sharp left and he almost loses the gun, which is yet another hurdle to overcome. Finally, he regains control and he gets his chance to become the hero, and in my opinion this sequence is the biggest buildup and here we are at the most intense moment in the whole clip, (even more than the ending).
> So when he (seemingly) misses his shot, it becomes a huge anticlimax and disappointment, and by cutting the music at the precise moment the rocket misses the car, the music supports that feeilng of failure.
> 
> Only my (hobbyist) opinion, of course


I don’t watch the show so maybe there something I’m missing here, but the one thing I haven’t been able to figure out is why she gives the rocket launcher to the guy _on_ _drugs_ when there’s a perfectly good normal guy sitting right beside him.


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## becolossal (May 29, 2020)

Laddy said:


> Several good points here, though I respectfully disagree with this one. I think 2:36 is a very good place to cut the music, and I did it myself in my own entry. My reasoning was something like this: Caleb gets the gun, and from this moment he is no longer just a "victim running away" but has the potential to become the action hero of the story who takes charge and beats the bad guys (here I tried to introduce a sort of a "hero theme" from the moment he held the gun in his hands) He climbs up the roof of the car and the action gets more and more intense: more shooting, more danger etc, the car has to turn sharp left and he almost loses the gun, which is yet another hurdle to overcome. Finally, he regains control and he gets his chance to become the hero, and in my opinion this sequence is the biggest buildup and here we are at the most intense moment in the whole clip, (even more than the ending).
> So when he (seemingly) misses his shot, it becomes a huge anticlimax and disappointment, and by cutting the music at the precise moment the rocket misses the car, the music supports that feeilng of failure.
> 
> Only my (hobbyist) opinion, of course



I agree here as well. This (and the ending) might have been the two parts of the cue I obsessed over the most, and I chose to stop the music in both places because it just felt right to me. 



Michael Stibor said:


> I don’t watch the show so maybe there something I’m missing here, but the one thing I haven’t been able to figure out is why she gives the rocket launcher to the guy on _drugs_ when there’s a perfectly good normal guy sitting right beside him.



There's a TON of backstory in the relationship (most of which is revealed in further episodes). Also, the guy on the right is a tool – with extra long fingernails.


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## Laddy (May 29, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> I don’t watch the show so maybe there something I’m missing here, but the one thing I haven’t been able to figure out is why she gives the rocket launcher to the guy on _drugs_ when there’s a perfectly good normal guy sitting right beside him.


Hehe, I haven't watched it either, so I might be totally wrong here, but I think the scene feels almost like a dream from Calebs perspective, and it doesn't have to make perfect sense.


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## Dan Drebing (May 29, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> I don’t watch the show so maybe there something I’m missing here, but the one thing I haven’t been able to figure out is why she gives the rocket launcher to the guy _on_ _drugs_ when there’s a perfectly good normal guy sitting right beside him.


Also she loads the rocket into the gun then bashes it into the plexiglass ceiling, not the other way around haha


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## Michael Stibor (May 29, 2020)

Dan Drebing said:


> Also she loads the rocket into the gun then bashes it into the plexiglass ceiling, not the other way around haha


Or why, if she has access to guide the missile remotely, does she even have him stick his head out of the car and risk getting shot, when she can just stick the gun out of her newly created “sunroof”, shoot it, and then guide it herself. But I digress...


----------



## Eptesicus (May 29, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> Or why, if she has access to guide the missile remotely, does she even have him stick his head out of the car and risk getting shot, when she can just stick the gun out of her newly created “sunroof”, shoot it, and then guide it herself. But I digress...



Thats it I'm scrapping my submission. Too many plot holes


----------



## schrodinger1612 (May 29, 2020)

This is in no way a criticism - but i've noticed that alot of the entries i've heard to date on the Tube sound very similar. I'm not a pro by any means - more of a hobbyist - but is that DUNDUN orchestral sound generally what's expected for this type of genre? Obviously i don't plan on using didgeridoos and marracas, but up to what point does it pay to be veer off that particular path? Please don't take this the wrong way - I LOVE what I've heard so far, it's just not my compositional style.


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## Eptesicus (May 29, 2020)

schrodinger1612 said:


> This is in no way a criticism - but i've noticed that alot of the entries i've heard to date on the Tube sound very similar. I'm not a pro by any means - more of a hobbyist - but is that DUNDUN orchestral sound generally what's expected for this type of genre? Obviously i don't plan on using didgeridoos and marracas, but up to what point does it pay to be veer off that particular path? Please don't take this the wrong way - I LOVE what I've heard so far, it's just not my compositional style.



I haven't bothered going the traditional route.

I mean, i could do it competently i think, but I'm not sure it would stand out from the hundreds of others that will do the traditional style really well.

i think if you go down the traditional route the whole way through the video, then it better be absolutely incredible.


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## visiblenoise (May 29, 2020)

General question for you experienced people: at what point(s), if ever, do you mute the video's audio track while working on something like this?

I was sort of...satisfied I guess is the word, with my work in progress, then I tried listening to it muted and it sounded a lot more empty/hollow. Nothing like the experience of listening to a published soundtrack album. Would one fill out the music as a standalone thing, and then fit it into the rest of the audio during final mixing? Maybe I'm thinking too hard about this and I just have boring music.


----------



## Michael Stibor (May 29, 2020)

schrodinger1612 said:


> This is in no way a criticism - but i've noticed that alot of the entries i've heard to date on the Tube sound very similar. I'm not a pro by any means - more of a hobbyist - but is that DUNDUN orchestral sound generally what's expected for this type of genre? Obviously i don't plan on using didgeridoos and marracas, but up to what point does it pay to be veer off that particular path? Please don't take this the wrong way - I LOVE what I've heard so far, it's just not my compositional style.


What would be your compositional style? I think as long as your music still works with the scene, then the more off the beaten path it is, the better.


----------



## Michael Stibor (May 29, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> General question for you experienced people: at what point(s), if ever, do you mute the video's audio track while working on something like this?
> 
> I was sort of...satisfied I guess is the word, with my work in progress, then I tried listening to it muted and it sounded a lot more empty/hollow. Nothing like the experience of listening to a published soundtrack album. Would one fill out the music as a standalone thing, and then fit it into the rest of the audio during final mixing? Maybe I'm thinking too hard about this and I just have boring music.


I think the more filled out it is, the better. You never listen to John Williams and think “well he left it kind of bland because there was spaceship battles over top of it.
The difference might be subtle once you add all those car noises etc going over top of it, but in the long run the subtleties will be felt.


----------



## Nico (May 29, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> General question for you experienced people: at what point(s), if ever, do you mute the video's audio track while working on something like this?
> 
> I was sort of...satisfied I guess is the word, with my work in progress, then I tried listening to it muted and it sounded a lot more empty/hollow. Nothing like the experience of listening to a published soundtrack album. Would one fill out the music as a standalone thing, and then fit it into the rest of the audio during final mixing? Maybe I'm thinking too hard about this and I just have boring music.


I never completely mute the videos audio track, to compose around dialogue and sound effects


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## EricBarndollar (May 29, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> at what point(s), if ever, do you mute the video's audio track while working on something like this?



I found composing with the dialogue & sfx almost always on helped with orchestration and balance decisions. For example, at one point, I was trying to fill in some more toms but I realized the bullets hitting the car in that measure was already achieving the same effect, so I didn't need them there.

Checking the music alone was still useful as a proofing step, though -- more to listen for defects rather than trying to ensure the music could also work out of context.


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## schrodinger1612 (May 29, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> What would be your compositional style? I think as long as your music still works with the scene, then the more off the beaten path it is, the better.


More guitar oriented, in this case a bunch of stacked fuzz/muff pedals, with some grindhouse and orchestral elements elements layered on top.


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## jononotbono (May 29, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> at what point(s), if ever, do you mute the video's audio track while working on something like this?



If I'm working on a specific bar for a long time and there's dx at that point, I always will mute the dx and sfx track/s. It will drive me crazy if I don't. Some kind of partial monosyllabic voice stuttering over and over and over.  I generally leave it turned on whilst writing otherwise. Then there's a point where I want to "mix stuff as I go" and want to make sure everything musically is sounding how I want, so I turn it off during that. The thing is with this, the dx/sfx track is the finished audio and with this gives a great sense of what I can write around and what kind of balance things can be. Instead of writing something and thinking "this part is wicked" and then realise you've completely drowned out something key to the story. Or any dx to be honest. Usually, you will have guide/scratch tracks, sfx work in progress, and you have to imagine a lot of "there's an explosion so I'm not going to write anything there or write anything that is nuanced or supposed to be clearly audible. But hey, what do I know. Just personal thoughts from a guy with a Green screen and a few bottles of Corona from the Isle of Wight.


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## Michael Stibor (May 29, 2020)

schrodinger1612 said:


> More guitar oriented, in this case a bunch of stacked fuzz/muff pedals, with some grindhouse and orchestral elements elements layered on top.


I started adding guitars to mine, since that’s my main instrument. But I think I was too far gone into orchestral world for it to fit right. But if you can pull it off, it’s gonna sound cool.


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## visiblenoise (May 29, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> If I'm working on a specific bar for a long time and there's dx at that point, I always will mute the dx and sfx track/s. It will drive me crazy if I don't. Some kind of partial monosyllabic voice stuttering over and over and over.


Heheh I already experienced this. I was struggling with a percussion part after the rocket thing hits, right where Aaron Paul goes "hawh, fuck!" I opted not to mute it.


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## jononotbono (May 29, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> Heheh I already experienced this. I was struggling with a percussion part after the rocket thing hits, right where Aaron Paul goes "hawh, fuck!" I opted not to mute it.


Mute it man. Save your soul. Or become Aphex's Twin. Both work.


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## Shad0wLandsUK (May 29, 2020)

Missed the boat on this one... Tempus Fugit!
I will just knock up some 3 day thing though to see how it goes 

Still not listened to a single entry as I don't the influence in my track 

Was looking forward to using my BBCSO Pro and Scoring Guitars 2...


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## Shad0wLandsUK (May 29, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> I started adding guitars to mine, since that’s my main instrument. But I think I was too far gone into orchestral world for it to fit right. But if you can pull it off, it’s gonna sound cool.





schrodinger1612 said:


> More guitar oriented, in this case a bunch of stacked fuzz/muff pedals, with some grindhouse and orchestral elements elements layered on top.


Gosh I want to nail that distopian guitar sound in scoring work
Perhaps I am biased, but as a guitarist before anything else, that will always be my sweet home sound!


----------



## Loïc D (May 29, 2020)

schrodinger1612 said:


> Obviously i don't plan on using didgeridoos and marracas,



I did use both...


----------



## Smikes77 (May 29, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> I did use both...



Overkill


----------



## Dr.Quest (May 29, 2020)

Listened to many of these. Good action cues on many. Anyone use Junkie XL brass? Seems like that could have been a good fit.


----------



## fish_hoof (May 29, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> Listened to many of these. Good action cues on many. Anyone use Junkie XL brass? Seems like that could have been a good fit.



I did on my first entry... but then I did a Jonny Cash version. Which I actually prefer more on this one.


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## EricBarndollar (May 29, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> Listened to many of these. Good action cues on many. Anyone use Junkie XL brass? Seems like that could have been a good fit.



I had planned to, but I ended up being happy enough with Spitfire's Symphonic Brass that I started with for sketching (well, plus a few CineBrass patches when I needed just a bit more). If I had more time, it would certainly be interesting to swap in JXL Brass and compare the results.


----------



## Supremo (May 29, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> Listened to many of these. Good action cues on many. Anyone use Junkie XL brass? Seems like that could have been a good fit.


I'm using JXL Brass for this one. Still half way to go as I started a bit late and I'm working really slow.


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## Loïc D (May 30, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> Listened to many of these. Good action cues on many. Anyone use Junkie XL brass? Seems like that could have been a good fit.



I do, never above CC1 90. Otherwise the earth is shaking, sky opens and demons fall.


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## ATomagian (May 30, 2020)

Hello everyone,
This has been a great thread with tons of insight on scoring to picture which was invaluable for a newbie like me. I just uploaded mine and I would love some feedback from the great people in this forum. I went for an 80's synth vibe after the genre change and after the first explosion for a hybrid of synths/orchestra.


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## Eptesicus (May 30, 2020)

It surprises me how many entries totally have the music too loud and you cant hear much of the speech or fx.

I mean i know we want our music to shine through, but i can't help but feel that they will want it mixed properly so you can still hear most of everything going on.


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## davidson (May 30, 2020)

ATomagian said:


> Hello everyone,
> This has been a great thread with tons of insight on scoring to picture which was invaluable for a newbie like me. I just uploaded mine and I would love some feedback from the great people in this forum. I went for an 80's synth vibe after the genre change and after the first explosion for a hybrid of synths/orchestra.




We have a winner. You heard it here first.


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## schrodinger1612 (May 30, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> I did use both...


I think i'm going to sneak a didgeridoo and cowbell in there briefly but oh-so-subtly, just for the sake of it


----------



## Michael Stibor (May 30, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> It surprises me how many entries totally have the music too loud and you cant hear much of the speech or fx.
> 
> I mean i know we want our music to shine through, but i can't help but feel that they will want it mixed properly so you can still hear most of everything going on.



That was my big complaint as well, but then I went back to the original version, and the Valkyries piece is mixed very loud as well.


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## Eptesicus (May 30, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> That was my big complaint as well, but then I went back to the original version, and the Valkyries piece is mixed very loud as well.



Yes, but you can still hear all the effects and dialogue pretty clearly.


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## Mark Evans (May 30, 2020)

ATomagian said:


> Hello everyone,
> This has been a great thread with tons of insight on scoring to picture which was invaluable for a newbie like me. I just uploaded mine and I would love some feedback from the great people in this forum. I went for an 80's synth vibe after the genre change and after the first explosion for a hybrid of synths/orchestra.




I really liked the falling away sound as the missile speeds past its intended target but I didn't find the last minute of the score quite as interesting as what had gone before.


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## ATomagian (May 30, 2020)

davidson said:


> We have a winner. You heard it here first.


 You're too kind! Thanks a lot!


Mark Evans said:


> I really liked the falling away sound as the missile speeds past its intended target but I didn't find the last minute of the score quite as interesting as what had gone before.


Thanks for the feedback. With this kind of projects I always struggle with keeping it both interesting and consistent all the way through.


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## dzilizzi (May 30, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> It surprises me how many entries totally have the music too loud and you cant hear much of the speech or fx.
> 
> I mean i know we want our music to shine through, but i can't help but feel that they will want it mixed properly so you can still hear most of everything going on.


I had to go back and remix because somewhere in my 1st bounce you could barely hear the conversation and I had written the music specifically around the conversation. I don't think you learn anything if you cover the dialogue.


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## Loïc D (May 30, 2020)

ATomagian said:


> Hello everyone,
> This has been a great thread with tons of insight on scoring to picture which was invaluable for a newbie like me. I just uploaded mine and I would love some feedback from the great people in this forum. I went for an 80's synth vibe after the genre change and after the first explosion for a hybrid of synths/orchestra.




That is good work !

It works well with the video, the dialogs & fx are still fully audible and the mix renders well even on cellphone speaker.
Probably the best I watched (but I only watched a handful).


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## EricBarndollar (May 30, 2020)

ATomagian said:


> I went for an 80's synth vibe after the genre change and after the first explosion for a hybrid of synths/orchestra.




Really enjoyed your initial genre transition from those bending strings to 80s synths + toms. I think I wanted the track to keep building up in energy much more than it did, so I also felt like it was losing steam rather than increasing in intensity up to the ending. But really fun vibe + mood.


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## Nico (May 30, 2020)

ATomagian said:


> Hello everyone,
> This has been a great thread with tons of insight on scoring to picture which was invaluable for a newbie like me. I just uploaded mine and I would love some feedback from the great people in this forum. I went for an 80's synth vibe after the genre change and after the first explosion for a hybrid of synths/orchestra.



GREAT atmosphere


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## jononotbono (May 30, 2020)

What I love about this thread is that people can post whatever they like, share their creations, discuss what they think and not have people feel shame for doing so. Man, some facebook groups are full of such miserable people. 

Let's invite them here


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## dzilizzi (May 30, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> What I love about this thread is that people can post whatever they like, share their creations, discuss what they think and not have people feel shame for doing so. Man, some facebook groups are full of such miserable people.
> 
> Let's invite them here


No, no, no....no miserable people here. Leave them on there...


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## wickedw (May 30, 2020)

I have to agree with that this is a great thread. I fully intent to check out as many of the entries posted here as I can. What I enjoyed about doing this one is really the opportunity to work with some great source material. I never watched the show myself but writing the music on something with some great cinematography was very inspiring.

In my own entry ( with no hope of winning, there's so much talent out there ) I really wanted to enforce that this scene would be a show off piece of the show and really keep the pace up. I have seen many entries that do the opposite and slow down the pace of the scene. Isn't it just wonderful how music can change your perception of a scene completely. I think that's why we're all here and something like this is just a great celebration of that.

Anyway, here's my submission:


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## dzilizzi (May 30, 2020)

One of my pet peeves when watching movies is when the music is 3 times as loud as the dialogue. You miss what is being said. Granted, when it is mostly action, there is the question as to how much the dialogue adds to the visual. But I do like the ones who upped the volume on the dialogue. At least that was how I was able to make it hear-able over the music.


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## LassiK (May 30, 2020)

Hey everyone! This is my first post here (shameless self promotion, lol) 
Here's my entry, 

Thanks for listening!


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## EricBarndollar (May 30, 2020)

LassiK said:


> Hey everyone! This is my first post here (shameless self promotion, lol)
> Here's my entry,
> 
> Thanks for listening!




Nice integration of synths with the orchestra! Also like the careful modulation of timbre & dynamics so that your synth arpeggios never feel static.


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## LassiK (May 30, 2020)

Thank you for the feedback Eric, much appreciated!


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## EricBarndollar (May 30, 2020)

wickedw said:


> I really wanted to enforce that this scene would be a show off piece of the show and really keep the pace up.



I think you definitely pulled off your pacing goal. Excellent tension in the intro and the tempo + intensity boost right after the genre change is very effective. Great entry!


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## Eptesicus (May 30, 2020)

dzilizzi said:


> One of my pet peeves when watching movies is when the music is 3 times as loud as the dialogue. You miss what is being said. Granted, when it is mostly action, there is the question as to how much the dialogue adds to the visual. But I do like the ones who upped the volume on the dialogue. At least that was how I was able to make it hear-able over the music.



Yup. some of the mixing in modern stuff is atrocious.


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## David Kudell (May 30, 2020)

Anyone else going through a post-Westworld depression? I need another scene to score!


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## Karl Feuerstake (May 30, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> Anyone else going through a post-Westworld depression? I need another scene to score!



I feel that. Need more film to score. Practice makes perfect


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## jononotbono (May 30, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> Anyone else going through a post-Westworld depression? I need another scene to score!



I can make you a Green Screen AAApartment Blockbuster if you want? 😂


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## David Kudell (May 30, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I can make you a Green Screen AAApartment Blockbuster if you want? 😂


Sweet! Try to throw in a switching genres moment if possible! Much more fun!


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## ka00 (May 30, 2020)

iaink said:


> Well, here is my entry. Just figuring out the cue was great fun (trying to, that is)... thanks Spitfire for setting this up.




First place in my books. Great job.


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## Mark Evans (May 30, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I can make you a Green Screen AAApartment Blockbuster if you want? 😂



Not so much right now, but I'd imagine CCTV footage from a rowdy Friday night on the Cowes chain ferry could be quite the horror movie.


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## jononotbono (May 30, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> Sweet! Try to throw in a switching genres moment if possible! Much more fun!



There will definitely be a sex change in there. Yes.


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## Dr.Quest (May 30, 2020)

I really liked this one... Had sounds in it that surprised me and kept me interested. Lately I've been stopping them right at the missile firing. Good job Xavier!


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## Pincel (May 30, 2020)

ka00 said:


> First place in my books. Great job.



Great entry! Really, really liked this one too. I just wish it was mixed better with the dialog/fx clip... It's a bit loud. I figure people do this out of fear that the judges won't be able to discern the music well enough, but I believe it's at least 2x more effective if it's actually well integrated with the rest of the audio.


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## Dr.Quest (May 30, 2020)

iaink said:


> Well, here is my entry. Just figuring out the cue was great fun (trying to, that is)... thanks Spitfire for setting this up.



Nice one!


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## Kubler (May 30, 2020)

Well, I thought this was going to be too late but I managed to come up with something in time !




Here's the score only, for those interested :




I didn't watch the series and didn't have any memory of the main theme or the music, so I refrained myself to watch or listen to any of it as well as the other entries. I learned about the peculiar context of the scene that's responsible for the Walkyries' use after I wrapped up my score, but I think I'd go for a more traditional action scene approach even now. I don't think the point is to force anyone to watch the series or dig up the narrative context around a scene taken out of it, as long as the music serves the picture right and elevate it.

I hope y'all enjoy my Williams / Powell mashup lol


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## Kubler (May 30, 2020)

Pincel said:


> Great entry! Really, really liked this one too. I just wish it was mixed better with the dialog/fx clip... It's a bit loud. I figure people do this out of fear that the judges won't be able to discern the music well enough, but I believe it's at least 2x more effective if it's actually well integrated with the rest of the audio.


I concur. I love the eerie feeling this has. This piano, bells & stuff texture is gorgeous !


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## Pincel (May 30, 2020)

Kubler said:


> Well, I thought this was going to be too late but I managed to come up with something in time !
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Another fantastic entry, congrats! Very good spotting, and I can definitely feel the Williams/Powell influence, but you've pulled it off as far as I'm concerned.


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## funnybear (May 30, 2020)

Kubler said:


> Well, I thought this was going to be too late but I managed to come up with something in time !
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Excellent, my favourite so far.


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## jononotbono (May 30, 2020)

The devil is in the details. It's just one of the many reasons why I love Westworld...


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## emilio_n (May 30, 2020)

After watching a lot of Incredibles entries to the contest here but the good ambience to help, cooperate and enjoy I decided to show mine too.
Is the first time that I try to do something like this. I am not professional but I enjoyed the process but mainly watching the other videos and the comments here.
Vi-controls is really a very special place. No other forum about virtual instruments and composition is same friendly, professional and useful. Thank all to be part of this and good luck!!


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## toomanynotes (May 30, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> I really liked this one... Had sounds in it that surprised me and kept me interested. Lately I've been stopping them right at the missile firing. Good job Xavier!



Sounds like the terminator theme.


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## Eptesicus (May 31, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> I really liked this one... Had sounds in it that surprised me and kept me interested. Lately I've been stopping them right at the missile firing. Good job Xavier!




This is cool but loses intensity and direction after the missile. Feels like it goes nowhere and falls flat at the end.


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## AndyRi (May 31, 2020)

Hi everyone! New here as well. I really hesitated to share my very unusual entry with you, but here it is. This is my first time scoring something, and it is my biggest work yet. Hope you enjoy it!


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## nyxl (May 31, 2020)

A lot of impressive entries in this thread!

I've now finished my entry as well. I used a synthesizer sound for after the "genre change" and the rest is mostly strings. At the second explosion I liked my piano draft track and decided to just keep it:


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## Eptesicus (May 31, 2020)

Anyone put anything in the notes and comments section when submitting your entry?

Not sure what they are expecting (if anything). Was thinking maybe a brief description of your genre choice or something?

Or is it better left blank.


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## Michael Stibor (May 31, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Anyone put anything in the notes and comments section when submitting your entry?
> 
> Not sure what they are expecting (if anything). Was thinking maybe a brief description of your genre choice or something?
> 
> Or is it better left blank.


I was wondering about that too. Probably best to leave blank unless there’s a good reason to say something.


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## dzilizzi (May 31, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Anyone put anything in the notes and comments section when submitting your entry?
> 
> Not sure what they are expecting (if anything). Was thinking maybe a brief description of your genre choice or something?
> 
> Or is it better left blank.


Not on the entry, but on the YouTube video I put the libraries I used.


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## Loïc D (May 31, 2020)

Here's my entry.

Any suggestions or comments welcome !

It's a bit East meets West, including gamelan, mariachi trumpet, didgeridoo & sleighbells (only to increase my popularity here). And some distant references to a pop tune about addiction 




Now I can sleep.

Good luck to you all !


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## David Kudell (May 31, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> Here's my entry.
> 
> Any suggestions or comments welcome !
> 
> ...



Fun! And another really different take on it. I love how many different ways there are to score this scene. Yours had a fun heist vibe to it.


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## Supremo (May 31, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> Here's my entry.
> 
> Any suggestions or comments welcome !
> 
> ...




Very unusual one, kinda makes you high with those Bondiana vibes all along. Production is really great.


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## Peter Wayne (Jun 1, 2020)

Does it bother anyone else that we didn't get the final sound effects track in the "no_music" version. I'm trying to match volume loudness to the "TX" broadcast version with the music included and the sound effects are totally different in volume balance throughout, they also have effects added, etc, etc. I know it shouldn't matter since we all got the same version. But I can totally see every submission being different in volume. Since some people will try and match to the broadcast volume others will just balance with the current sound effects untouched.


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## Kubler (Jun 1, 2020)

Peter Wayne said:


> Does it bother anyone else that we didn't get the final sound effects track in the "no_music" version. I'm trying to match volume loudness to the "TX" broadcast version with the music included and the sound effects are totally different in volume balance throughout, they also have effects added, etc, etc. I know it shouldn't matter since we all got the same version. But I can totally see every submission being different in volume. Since some people will try and match to the broadcast volume others will just balance with the current sound effects untouched.


I agree, I don't know why these were two different versions. Personally I just put a light compressor on my musical track, adjusted the overall gain, then manually ducked a few brief moments of the no_music track when there was no dialog and I wanted my score to really take over. This way I think I fairly reduced the changes in volume I would have had to do throughout the video.


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## Loïc D (Jun 1, 2020)

Supremo said:


> Very unusual one, kinda makes you high with those Bondiana vibes all along. Production is really great.



Thanks.
I didn’t watch the series at all so I don’t know the tone.
Looking at Aaron Paul’s face tripping and that shaky futuristic golf car was an invitation for some comedic elements.

Since I thought most entries would fall in the synth territory, I chose a different way, mixing orchestral writing and pop stuff.

I left the FX / dialog track unchanged with scarce automation when dialogs & music where conflicting a bit (the end bit with « accelerate... more... more... » is a bit weak in the original mix).


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## Kubler (Jun 1, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> Here's my entry.
> 
> Any suggestions or comments welcome !
> 
> ...



I really love your proposition, I get the same heist mood as @David Kudell . In a lot of entries I thought that people tended to rely on their initial idea all along, which made boredom a real risk after a couple minutes. Your score evolves and renews itself, it was pleasant to listen at. I enjoyed a lot the "ethnically mixed" instrumentation, works very well together, especially the occasional interventions during the calm phases of the track.

I only have two main criticisms : it always bugs me when people make their score begin so abruptly right at the beginning of the video, when nothing has happened yet. I think the start of the gunfire needs to be the turning point of the music that initiates the action. The rest of the spotting is excellent though, you match the picture very closely !

And then, even if it's less important, I was not a fan of your final jaw harp  I thought it was a weird parasite at first.


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## al_net77 (Jun 1, 2020)

Ok, I didn't think of participating until last week, so little time to do it, but here it is:



I'm not a pro and I don't know the series; I did not look at any entry at now, because I took this as an exercise from zero. It is a full orchestral approach, some minor FX but 99% SSO.
Will no be the best out there, but it was fun!


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## augurymusic (Jun 1, 2020)

I confess I am a lurker on these forums and rarely post, but I have to say I have seen many amazing entries already. Had a blast having a crack at this in any case. Good luck to everyone!



The one thing which I wasn't prepared for, was how much I would second guess myself at every step of the process. Spotting, scoring, rending the samples' performance, recording the cello part, mixing etc. I am still worried that the solo cello doesn't sound good!


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## SmarTune Music (Jun 1, 2020)

Hi everybody,
I just put it here and sneak back to my cave quietly 🙂

Thanks for watching and good luck to everyone!


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## robharvey (Jun 1, 2020)

Some ridiculously strong entries into this competition. Well done everyone!

Here's my entry:


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## Oholio (Jun 1, 2020)

Great stuff guys! Some excellent entries, many of them got me a genuine smile. There is so much talent here, it's amazing. Here is my entry, hope you enjoy it.


So much fun!


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## augurymusic (Jun 1, 2020)

SmarTune Music said:


> Hi everybody,
> I just put it here and sneak back to my cave quietly 🙂
> 
> Thanks for watching and good luck to everyone!




That guitar entry was great. It's based on Misirlou isn't it?



robharvey said:


> Some ridiculously strong entries into this competition. Well done everyone!
> 
> Here's my entry:




Love that section at about the 1:15 mark Rob. Is that a very disturbed violin or guitar?


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## robharvey (Jun 1, 2020)

augurymusic said:


> That guitar entry was great. It's based on Misirlou isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> Love that section at about the 1:15 mark Rob. Is that a very disturbed violin or guitar?



Many thanks! It's actually 2 synths (alchemy and a mother 32), strings, brass and a very strait forward sounding electric guitar.


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## Dionysis (Jun 1, 2020)

This is actually my first post in the forum and this competition was my first time trying to write music to picture.I was really amazed by how many great-sounding entries there are out there!

Here is my humble try


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## Janosh (Jun 1, 2020)

My contribution the Westworld-Scoring-Competition. 

Since the original cue contains an orchestral version of Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries", I accepted this as a work order to produce a track that is based on the original in sound, melody and harmony. 
In order to adapt the music to the image, however, substantial new edits had to be made. So the 9/8 beat of the original was converted into 4/4, the key changed to E-Major and the essential elements were re-compiled and newly composed with the addition of own ideas.


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## jononotbono (Jun 1, 2020)

Kubler said:


> it always bugs me when people make their score begin so abruptly right at the beginning of the video, when nothing has happened yet.



There are 3 people armed with guns, with the intent of murdering the main characters in the car, advancing to the car right at the beginning of the scene. The people in the car are very aware of this threat and their car has been stopped by these people. That's not nothing happening. But hey, we all see what we want to see and write music accordingly from those choices.


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## Eptesicus (Jun 1, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> There are 3 people armed with guns, with the intent of murdering the main characters in the car, advancing to the car right at the beginning of the scene. The people in the car are very aware of this threat and their car has been stopped by these people. That's not nothing happening. But hey, we all see what we want to see and write music accordingly from those choices.



Yeh I think you have to acknowledge (at least) them being shot at ( which is the second framing of the entire thing).


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## jononotbono (Jun 1, 2020)

It’s a competition and one for fun so people can do anything they want. If I was scoring this in real life, I’d definitely be scoring it from the very start (the music would actually run into this scene because the guys with guns have just followed them, pulled them over and disabled their car. Forgetting what’s happening before this scene (because it’s nothing to do with this competition), what did Ramin do? Well, he scored from the very beginning? Why? Because there are 3 guys with guns advancing on a car to kill people!


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## Kubler (Jun 1, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> There are 3 people armed with guns, with the intent of murdering the main characters in the car, advancing to the car right at the beginning of the scene. The people in the car are very aware of this threat and their car has been stopped by these people. That's not nothing happening. But hey, we all see what we want to see and write music accordingly from those choices.


That was a poor choice of words on my part, it's not that nothing is happening as much as there's still a huge step in tension between armed people walking in a fairly calm manner towards a car, and the POV of the people in the car being suddenly shot at. I don't think this step is highlighted enough by the music, that's all ^^


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## jononotbono (Jun 1, 2020)

Kubler said:


> That was a poor choice of words on my part, it's not that nothing is happening as much as there's still a huge step in tension between armed people walking in a fairly calm manner towards a car, and the POV of the people in the car being suddenly shot at. I don't think this step is highlighted enough by the music, that's all ^^



It’s all good. And you are correct there is a huge leap in tension at that point. From your wording I thought that you thought nothing was going on which is all I was talking about


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## Kubler (Jun 1, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> It’s a competition and one for fun so people can do anything they want. If I was scoring this in real life, I’d definitely be scoring it from the very start (the music would actually run into this scene because the guys with guys have just followed them, pulled them over and disabled their car. Forgetting what’s happening before this scene (because it’s nothing to do with this competition), what did Ramin do? Well, he scored from the very beginning? Why? Because there are 3 guys with guns advancing on a car to kill people!


Respectfully though, I think you're missing a point of the contest : the scene is taken out of context  I understand from what you're saying that you've seen the episode so you know what happened right before, but I'm convinced I'm not the only participant who hasn't watched the series. Knowing how the characters got stopped in the middle of a tunnel (and taking it in account in your score) isn't much more of a requirement than being aware of the "genre drug" thing. Also, Ramin didn't "start from the beginning" of this scene, his score just happened to be still going on at the point where HBO's people made the cut ^^


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## achabloopada8000 (Jun 1, 2020)

My contribution to this awesome competition.
It's my first attempt to scoring to video, I really hope you'll enjoy it!


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## Simon Lee (Jun 1, 2020)

This is my 1st attempt at scoring a chase scene. Feel free to comment on things I might of missed or over done.


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## jononotbono (Jun 1, 2020)

Kubler said:


> Respectfully though, I think you're missing a point of the contest : the scene is taken out of context  I understand from what you're saying that you've seen the episode so you know what happened right before, but I'm convinced I'm not the only participant who hasn't watched the series. Knowing how the characters got stopped in the middle of a tunnel (and taking it in account in your score) isn't much more of a requirement than being aware of the "genre drug" thing. Also, Ramin didn't "start from the beginning" of this scene, his score just happened to be still going on at the point where HBO's people made the cut ^^



I’m not missing any point. You said there was nothing going on at the beginning, you soon rectified your choice of bad wording and I’ve agreed that the tension ramps up on first fire whilst the main characters are sitting in the car. Ive just literally said all of this. Ramin’s music flows from the last scene. Therefore in this competition, this scene, his music starts from the beginning of this scene.

If people don’t want to acknowledge there are guys with guns approaching a car and don’t think that is any form of threat and therefore don’t feel they should write any music at this point, then great! Fantastic. That’s their choice. We all can do what we want.

Right, I need to get back on with my day and final tweaks to this and hopefully uploaded it.


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## Michael Stibor (Jun 1, 2020)

Kubler said:


> I really love your proposition, I get the same heist mood as @David Kudell . In a lot of entries I thought that people tended to rely on their initial idea all along, which made boredom a real risk after a couple minutes. Your score evolves and renews itself, it was pleasant to listen at. I enjoyed a lot the "ethnically mixed" instrumentation, works very well together, especially the occasional interventions during the calm phases of the track.
> 
> I only have two main criticisms : it always bugs me when people make their score begin so abruptly right at the beginning of the video, when nothing has happened yet. I think the start of the gunfire needs to be the turning point of the music that initiates the action. The rest of the spotting is excellent though, you match the picture very closely !
> 
> And then, even if it's less important, I was not a fan of your final jaw harp  I thought it was a weird parasite at first.


I actually think the action starts when she says “go!” and the tires start squealing. The gunfire should almost be a musical alarm that precedes it. That’s how the original score is. However, I did not take this approach. My action music starts at the gunfire. That’s the only part of mine I wish I could change.


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## Michael Stibor (Jun 1, 2020)

Simon Lee said:


> This is my 1st attempt at scoring a chase scene. Feel free to comment on things I might of missed or over done.



This is so totally different than my “everything and the kitchen sink” approach. I love the minimalism. Having said that, you could’ve taken out about 90% of the percussion and it would’ve worked better in my opinion. The sounds you’re using are great but they could’ve used only as accents, and or been kept extremely minimal, and had lighter percussion in there. There’s some choices with it that strike me as odd. For example, there’s a lot of percussion in the beginning when not much (if at all) was needed but then the ending which should be climactic, has none.
Again, only commenting because you asked, and I really think it’s a great submission.

As a final note, listen to this track, and how much Marco Beltrami gets away with minimal percussion. Or at least, minimal “big hits” style percussion. And it still sounds massive:


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## dzilizzi (Jun 1, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I’m not missing any point. You said there was nothing going on at the beginning, you soon rectified your choice of bad wording and I’ve agreed that the tension ramps up on first fire whilst the main characters are sitting in the car. Ive just literally said all of this. Ramin’s music flows from the last scene. Therefore in this competition, this scene, his music starts from the beginning of this scene.
> 
> If people don’t want to acknowledge there are guys with guns approaching a car and don’t think that is any form of threat and therefore don’t feel they should write any music at this point, then great! Fantastic. That’s their choice. We all can do what we want.
> 
> Right, I need to get back on with my day and final tweaks to this and hopefully uploaded it.


And this is why I had a clock ticking sound at the beginning.......


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## Simon Lee (Jun 1, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> This is so totally different than my “everything and the kitchen sink” approach. I love the minimalism. Having said that, you could’ve taken out about 90% of the percussion and it would’ve worked better in my opinion. The sounds you’re using are great but they could’ve used only as accents, and or been kept extremely minimal, and had lighter percussion in there. There’s some choices with it that strike me as odd. For example, there’s a lot of percussion in the beginning when not much (if at all) was needed but then the ending which should be climactic, has none.
> Again, only commenting because you asked, and I really think it’s a great submission.
> 
> As a final note, listen to this track, and how much Marco Beltrami gets away with minimal percussion. Or at least, minimal “big hits” style percussion. And it still sounds massive:



Thank you so much. I’m here to learn so appreciate that you’ve taken the time to respond. I may re upload as I had a version with less percussion but then over did it this morning 🙄


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## Simon Lee (Jun 1, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> This is so totally different than my “everything and the kitchen sink” approach. I love the minimalism. Having said that, you could’ve taken out about 90% of the percussion and it would’ve worked better in my opinion. The sounds you’re using are great but they could’ve used only as accents, and or been kept extremely minimal, and had lighter percussion in there. There’s some choices with it that strike me as odd. For example, there’s a lot of percussion in the beginning when not much (if at all) was needed but then the ending which should be climactic, has none.
> Again, only commenting because you asked, and I really think it’s a great submission.
> 
> As a final note, listen to this track, and how much Marco Beltrami gets away with minimal percussion. Or at least, minimal “big hits” style percussion. And it still sounds massive:



I clicked the link but it says un available


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## Michael Stibor (Jun 1, 2020)

Simon Lee said:


> Thank you so much. I’m here to learn so appreciate that you’ve taken the time to respond. I may re upload as I had a version with less percussion but then over did it this morning 🙄



Just my opinion of course, which means it pretty much means nothing. But just something to consider. I think had you had a more bombastic track the percussion would've worked, but as it is now, the percussion stands out like a sore thumb. But seriously, this one is really good. I could see it being a contender.


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## Michael Stibor (Jun 1, 2020)

Simon Lee said:


> I clicked the link but it says un available


Hmm, maybe it's unavailable in your country? I really don't know. If not look up the track on Spotify or something. There's lots of other tracks with similar approaches. This is just the first one I could think of.


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## iaink (Jun 1, 2020)

ka00 said:


> First place in my books. Great job.





Pincel said:


> Great entry! Really, really liked this one too. I just wish it was mixed better with the dialog/fx clip... It's a bit loud. I figure people do this out of fear that the judges won't be able to discern the music well enough, but I believe it's at least 2x more effective if it's actually well integrated with the rest of the audio.



Thank you for the comments and feedback, @ka00 and @Pincel.

Where I was just trying to favour the music a little, I might have ended up with a music heavy mix. Fresh ears an second opinions are very valuable.

Cheers,
iain


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## Loïc D (Jun 1, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> There are 3 people armed with guns, with the intent of murdering the main characters in the car, advancing to the car right at the beginning of the scene. The people in the car are very aware of this threat and their car has been stopped by these people. That's not nothing happening. But hey, we all see what we want to see and write music accordingly from those choices.


Yup, to me, the first shot is a classic western setup with the 3 guys, legs open, occupying the screen, camera on the ground.
Couldn’t help putting a guitar twang, a bell and a rattlesnake 
I wished this shot last longer.

I didn’t watch the original cue or any other entry before finishing the composition and was quite surprised that Ramin sampled to gunshots too.

That’s a really funny movie to score.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 1, 2020)

Well... that was a blast! Here's my beat-driven take. Had fun taking the new version of Logic for a ride, especially the synth drum on kick duty. I'm looking forward to any feedback:


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## Eptesicus (Jun 1, 2020)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Well... that was a blast! Here's my beat-driven take. Had fun taking the new version of Logic for a ride, especially the synth drum on kick duty. I'm looking forward to any feedback:




This is cool. It was actually one of my first ideas to do something similar (was thinking a drum and bass/ prodigy type thing after the tripping out). I went a different avenue in the end, but i like what you have done here.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jun 1, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> This is cool. It was actually one of my first ideas to do something similar (was thinking a drum and bass/ prodigy type thing after the tripping out). I went a different avenue in the end, but i like what you have done here.


Thanks, glad you liked it! I just really enjoy a driving rhythm for a chase scene. That said, there's a million possibilities that can work, as shown by the wonderful variety of music in the submissions.


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## Dr.Quest (Jun 1, 2020)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Well... that was a blast! Here's my beat-driven take. Had fun taking the new version of Logic for a ride, especially the synth drum on kick duty. I'm looking forward to any feedback:



Good energy!


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## Pincel (Jun 1, 2020)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Well... that was a blast! Here's my beat-driven take. Had fun taking the new version of Logic for a ride, especially the synth drum on kick duty. I'm looking forward to any feedback:




So cool! One of the best non-orchestral ones I've heard. I loved it, sort of a late 90's/early 00's DnB feel to it, that really brings me some nostalgia for some reason. Great!


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## CromoFX (Jun 1, 2020)

And here is another leftfield approach to the Genre. Don‘t take it too seriously. Maybe I can put a smile on the face of one or another with my entry. Any feedback and criticism is welcome ... (show mercy )


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## whynotj (Jun 1, 2020)

Here's my entry, enjoy!


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## Norhernlys (Jun 1, 2020)

It really was perfectly timed that this competition was during the quarantine, truly made time go by faster as this was really fun to work on  Here is my submission, guess the key word here is 138BPM 


Good luck peeps


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## Oholio (Jun 1, 2020)

CromoFX said:


> And here is another leftfield approach to the Genre. Don‘t take it too seriously. Maybe I can put a smile on the face of one or another with my entry. Any feedback and criticism is welcome ... (show mercy )



Hahaha really good! Made me smile, good humor with great quality, really well done! That's something I didn't dare to do, really happy to see someone did!


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## jononotbono (Jun 1, 2020)

Kubler said:


> Well, I thought this was going to be too late but I managed to come up with something in time !
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just listened to your submission man. Very cool. Wish I could write music like that. And yes, it's very effective not scoring from the very start. Glad so many are taking different approaches


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## arznable (Jun 1, 2020)

Hi, two quick questions regarding the competition:

1) Am I allowed to modify, eg. normalize, compress or add effects to the origial dialogue and sound effects clip?
2) After mixing the dialogues with the music track, the integrated loudness is -19.5 LUFS which is pretty low. Do we need (or are we allowed) to bring the overall sounds level up to normal before submitting? If so, what should be the level for YouTube videos in LUFS?

Thanks a lot.


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## jononotbono (Jun 1, 2020)

arznable said:


> Hi, two quick questions regarding the competition:
> 
> 1) Am I allowed to modify, eg. normalize, compress or add effects to the origial dialogue and sound effects clip?
> 2) After mixing the dialogues with the music track, the integrated loudness is -19.5 LUFS which is pretty low. Do we need (or are we allowed) to bring the overall sounds level up to normal before submitting? If so, what should be the level for YouTube videos in LUFS?
> ...



1 YES

2 You can do whatever you want with the audio.

You Tube has horrible reencoding. A total slag. It's measured at -13LUFS. So if you up load anything below that, it will reencode and raise the volume and if anything higher, it will lower it. And whilst on paper that may sound excellent and convenient, what happens is all sorts of horrible sonic dogs brown.

The best audio format to upload to YouTube is wav. And 24bit. It will still get reencoded to 126/128kb MP3 no matter what format it's originally in but wav will give best results.

If you are using an NLE such as Final Cut Pro to put your audio and video together something to bear in mind...

There is an option to upload straight to YouTube. This option favours video quality. Audio being secondary. This will upload the video and audio to YouTube using AAC and not wav (even though your audio may originally in wav). When you choose this, the audio is being converted to AAC and then to MP3. Basically twice conversion. If you export your video as a master file and choose video and audio, you can choose wav. Therefore, when you export a master file (onto your hard drive/whatever you're using) the audio is not being converted and is still wav. Then manually upload to YouTube and let it do it's horrible thing and convert to mp3 128kb. Having the audio being reencoded once is better than twice. I recently started using Divinci Resolve and that actually has an option to upload straight to YouTube to use wav so instantly I thought that was a better NLE (It is probably the best anyway) and now only using that for any video stuff. I actually noticed a difference comparing AAC audio vs Wav. Some top end was missing especially when looking at analysis tools.

I could go on but basically, make you level for YouTube -13LUFS, make sure audio is a wav before YouTube encodes it and it will then sound as good as it can under YouTubes parameters. -19.5 is very low... Unless you get a mastering engineer to master it! I work at a studio with a professional mastering engineer and I've been trying to find out more about all of this. So I apologise for any loose terminology here and also, do you know how hard it is to get a pro giving tips, tricks and secrets? After all, the best lil secrets are kept. 

She said wav is the only format (at 24bit) she would consider for YouTube audio and that she makes her masters at -14LUFS. And then let's the YouTube algorithm raise her mix to -13LUFS. I never asked this but I think it's for dealing with the loudness war that never ends and YouTube will bring it up to compete with everyone else audio without completely destroying the master.

Anyway, hope some of this helped and if not, I'll learn how to type it when not drinking.


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## Tinesaeriel (Jun 1, 2020)

Hey, folks! Here's my entry! Got it done just tonight/this morning! My poor MacBook absolutely _hates _doing these kinds of huge, frenetic action cues - what with so many instrument tracks and so much memory and CPU getting used up - but I managed to create a workflow that let me write everything I needed in timely fashion, and now it's done!

Completely orchestral here, really straightforward, nothing really surprising, but I'm super happy with how much I've leveled up in terms of action scoring in the past couple of years. I used to be so horrible at it. I also tried to incorporate woodwinds as much as I could in this piece, despite it being so chaotic, frenetic, and driving.

Thanks so much, guys! Hope y'all like it!

Best,
Adam


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## BeeF_DriPPings (Jun 2, 2020)

Heres mine!


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## jonathanwright (Jun 2, 2020)

I must agree that this has been a fun thing to do under lockdown, with work normal options somewhat limited. Templates can only be rebuilt so many times!

Here's mine.


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## Supremo (Jun 2, 2020)

jonathanwright said:


> I must agree that this has been a fun thing to do under lockdown, with work normal options somewhat limited. Templates can only be rebuilt so many times!
> 
> Here's mine.



I very much like those synthetic vibes mixed with the orchestal sound. Though I believe the final chord should have been made at the moment of the final explosion. But again, the author usually feels it better.


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## Supremo (Jun 2, 2020)

SmarTune Music said:


> Hi everybody,
> I just put it here and sneak back to my cave quietly 🙂
> 
> Thanks for watching and good luck to everyone!



Jeez, this is one hell of an entry! However, I'm afraid it may not be qualified as using other themes are sadly not allowed by the contest rules.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 2, 2020)

Kubler said:


> Well, I thought this was going to be too late but I managed to come up with something in time !
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the score only for those interested :



Definitely one of the best entries. Great work! And a brilliant example of which points to hit and how to do it well (and musically).


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## Thysmusic.com (Jun 2, 2020)

I submitted an entry as well!

Curious what you guys think of it. 

I focused more on the "psychedelic experience" part of the action, and less so on the "car-chase", because I don't think the scene really is about the carchase and the gunshots. For me the scene is about Caleb tripping, it's about him missing the shot rather than firing it, and it's about Dolores being in a weird and confident kind of control throughout all the chaos.


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## CromoFX (Jun 2, 2020)

Thysmusic.com said:


> I submitted an entry as well!
> 
> Curious what you guys think of it.
> 
> I focused more on the "psychedelic experience" part of the action, and less so on the "car-chase", because I don't think the scene really is about the carchase and the gunshots. For me the scene is about Caleb tripping, it's about him missing the shot rather than firing it, and it's about Dolores being in a weird and confident kind of control throughout all the chaos.




Nice work! I like your theme very much ... and the genre of course!!!


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## bryla (Jun 2, 2020)

This is what I ended with:


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## JoeBarlow (Jun 2, 2020)

Only just submitted mine today, but I must say my favourite part about finally finishing is being free to watch some of the brilliant entries here! I’m so glad I didn’t listen to any before I completed mine because I would have felt severely underwhelmed with my own work 😅 

mine for context; 


Good luck all!


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## JoeBarlow (Jun 2, 2020)

Tinesaeriel said:


> Hey, folks! Here's my entry! Got it done just tonight/this morning! My poor MacBook absolutely _hates _doing these kinds of huge, frenetic action cues - what with so many instrument tracks and so much memory and CPU getting used up - but I managed to create a workflow that let me write everything I needed in timely fashion, and now it's done!
> 
> Completely orchestral here, really straightforward, nothing really surprising, but I'm super happy with how much I've leveled up in terms of action scoring in the past couple of years. I used to be so horrible at it. I also tried to incorporate woodwinds as much as I could in this piece, despite it being so chaotic, frenetic, and driving.
> 
> ...



This entry is so cool, just traditional action music but I love it, great job!


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## cola2410 (Jun 2, 2020)

A bit late to the party, here is my a bit spicy take.


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## kolton (Jun 2, 2020)

Here's my take.
Good luck to all !


View attachment Westworld Scoring Competition[dankolton].mp4


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## ben2000 (Jun 3, 2020)

Hi everyone - here is my take on the scene. I did something a bit unusual by composing a 7- part polyphonic piece for the opening. Hope you enjoy it!


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## bengoss (Jun 3, 2020)

Here is mine, it was fun working on this!


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## jonathanwright (Jun 3, 2020)

Supremo said:


> I very much like those synthetic vibes mixed with the orchestal sound. Though I believe the final chord should have been made at the moment of the final explosion. But again, the author usually feels it better.



Glad you liked it @Supremo, and thanks for the feedback!


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## John Judd (Jun 3, 2020)

Hey Guys,

This thread will be an interesting one to sift through. Here’s what I submitted:



I’ve heard/seen a few really terrifying (in a good way) entries on YouTube.


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## jononotbono (Jun 3, 2020)

It's time to stop tweaking it just release it into the wild. If anyone is interested, here's my submission...


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 3, 2020)

Amusica's '80s Silvestri homage is a great effort!


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## Supremo (Jun 3, 2020)

And here is my entry. Decided to follow the dude's "Switching Genres" and Dolores's "Head South" quotes and based my whole entry on flamenco vibes / southern rhythms... Kinda "Karmen" thing, which alludes to Dolores being a spanish name. All in all, I'm just a hobbyist here and this was a lot of fun for me to score something for a movie fragment for the first time in my life... So please judge but don't crucify me. ))


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## jononotbono (Jun 3, 2020)

Supremo said:


> And here is my entry. Decided to follow the dude's "Switching Genres" and Dolores's "Head South" quotes and based my whole entry on flamenco vibes / southern rhythms... Kinda "Karmen" thing, which alludes to Dolores being a spanish name. All in all, I'm just a hobbyist here and this was a lot of fun for me to score something for a movie fragment for the first time in my life... So please judge but don't crucify me. ))




Nice man!


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## Richard Wilkinson (Jun 3, 2020)

Supremo said:


> And here is my entry. Decided to follow the dude's "Switching Genres" and Dolores's "Head South" quotes and based my whole entry on flamenco vibes / southern rhythms... Kinda "Karmen" thing, which alludes to Dolores being a spanish name. All in all, I'm just a hobbyist here and this was a lot of fun for me to score something for a movie fragment for the first time in my life... So please judge but don't crucify me. ))



Nice! I think that gunshot at the start feels *really *weird with no music/sound design stab/flourish - it feels a bit weak when it should be the first big dramatic moment of the scene. But otherwise I thought this had some great ideas and nice writing too.


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## ned3000 (Jun 3, 2020)

Here's mine:


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## Supremo (Jun 3, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> It's time to stop tweaking it just release it into the wild. If anyone is interested, here's my submission...



Wish I had your mixing/mastering skills. This entire thing sounds so clean and well-balanced to my ears! And the musical idea is cool enough to get differentiated from tons of similar-sounding entries. Well done!


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## Supremo (Jun 3, 2020)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Nice! I think that gunshot at the start feels *really *weird with no music/sound design stab/flourish - it feels a bit weak when it should be the first big dramatic moment of the scene. But otherwise I thought this had some great ideas and nice writing too.


Thanks a lot for your feedback Richard. I kinda start feeling the same once you noticed that. Don't know whether I still have time to change anything. ))


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## jononotbono (Jun 3, 2020)

Supremo said:


> Wish I had your mixing/mastering skills. This entire thing sounds so clean and well-balanced to my ears! And the musical idea is cool enough to get differentiated from tons of similar-sounding entries. Well done!



Thanks so much man. I’ve spent a lot of time mixing it as I never usually have time to do that whenworking on deadlines. I usually write until it’s time to submit and always hate I never leave time for the mix. So I figured I’d not do that for this. I also wanted to try out my Audeze headphones and UAD plugins which are new to me and have to say, very wonderful!


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## Supremo (Jun 3, 2020)

JoeBarlow said:


> Only just submitted mine today, but I must say my favourite part about finally finishing is being free to watch some of the brilliant entries here! I’m so glad I didn’t listen to any before I completed mine because I would have felt severely underwhelmed with my own work 😅
> 
> mine for context;
> 
> ...



I honestly think your entry is gonna be one of the top contenders to win this damn thing. ) Everything here is so spot on!


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## Jorgakis (Jun 3, 2020)

I don’t know what I did here but it is my clumsy attempt of coming out of my pure orchestra bubble. 



great entries by everyone so far!


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## Peter Wayne (Jun 3, 2020)

2am here in Japan and I'm finally done! (with 9 hours to spare before the competition closes). I started a bit late with this competition, but in some ways I'm glad I did otherwise I would have spent the whole month tweaking things.

I played it straight down the line with hybrid, orchestral and musical sound design. I really tried to focus on the story and emotional arcs of the footage. 

Lots of amazing entries in this forum. Would be awesome if someone from VI control won.


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## fakemaxwell (Jun 3, 2020)

Here's my submission. Tried something for the genre switching, hope you guys like rock n roll!


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## jacobthestupendous (Jun 3, 2020)

Here's my entry. I originally wanted to do an 8 bit video game music thing, but someone else apparently nailed that vibe before I could even get it started (that's one of many entries that I'm looking very forward to watching once I have a spare few hours to go through some of them). As a fallback, I asked myself what Will Smith would do, and I wrote an Irish jig.



Any feedback is highly appreciated!


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## Andrajas (Jun 3, 2020)

I did mine a few weeks back but would happily listen to feedback on it. I didn't go forward with the "genre switching" as many other entries. Have been really interesting seeing all different kinds of scores. I have found my favorite out there and its definitely not mine haha :D


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## josephspirits (Jun 3, 2020)

rapscallione said:


> Here's my submission. Tried something for the genre switching, hope you guys like rock n roll!




This thing sure does rock!


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## josephspirits (Jun 3, 2020)

toomanynotes said:


> Interesting - at least *200,000* people have seen the video competition...
> Lets be realistic - I would expect AT LEAST *10,000* entries regardless if good or not.
> Competition ends on 3rd of June and Winner announced on the 19th June -
> So they have *12 days* to review all submissions. 12 x 24hrs = *288hrs* to review every piece providing they don't sleep or include weekends. Impossible.
> ...



I guess my assumption was that the "spitfire team" would be a lot of their employees and interns doing the first round of filtering and probably skip right to the genre switch and see whether people recognized that or not. That's why I felt like they specifically chose this scene as the challenge. but who knows. It does boggle your mind looking at the math though.


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## Karl Feuerstake (Jun 3, 2020)

josephspirits said:


> I guess my assumption was that the "spitfire team" would be a lot of their employees and interns doing the first round of filtering and probably skip right to the genre switch and see whether people recognized that or not. That's why I felt like they specifically chose this scene as the challenge. but who knows. It does boggle your mind looking at the math though.



More or less how I expect it to be done. If I'm listening around for good entries, I'll listen for 5 seconds starting around where they get shot at in the intro. If it's incredibly boring or misplaced, I'll move the time marker to where Caleb trips and listen another 5. If it's also boring, I'll skip again to the chase right after his trip. And if _that too_ is boring, then onto the next video. Thus I give a video about 15 seconds of listening, plus or minus a few, to know whether it's decent or not. If it ain't decent, it ain't got a chance to be a winner, so into the dustbin. If it _is_ good, or stands out, then (if I were a judge) I'd place it into a higher category, one that deserves more review time, probably by a different person. Etc.

I expect they'll have a pool of 100 or so truly excellent entries by the last few days of judging. Then it will be hard to decide amongst these as they will all be so incredibly good, that they'll probably start removing entries for having a mistake or a weak moment, until they can distill it down to only a handful, of which they'll pick 6.

The big judges (the named ones who are celebrities of certain standing) will almost definitely only be involved once there are 100 (or less) entries in the pool. They're busy people and there's no way they'd have time to watch all these videos even for 15 seconds, let alone to completion. So that's how I'd run the judgement process logistically. There would also be guidelines as to how the assistant judges would make decisions about musical quality, and ideally they'd have some level of knowledge of film music to be able to be critical and decide what works and what doesn't.


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## hayvel (Jun 3, 2020)

Soooo... here comes my entry.



The competition caught me right in a time of downloading, sorting and getting to know the libraries and tools I had aquired over the past months to get ready for scoring (well, sometime in the future, I hope ). 

I didn't have time to do this until now, so I spent the past weeks doing the digital housekeeping, venturing through my new stuff and making this little score. While it was actually great to combine discovery and practical use, it was also super difficult, as I don't even have a template yet and no experience with all this stuff...

It's probably a bit cliche from what I read here, but I still hope you like it. I am grateful for your thoughts on this in any case.


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## h.s.j.e (Jun 3, 2020)

So, I was hesitant to even share my entry, because I feel like this was a fun step into territory that I'm not comfortable or experienced in, but I'm a glutton for useful feedback, so here's what I came up with. Budget skills, budget libraries, but an exceptionally enjoyable learning experience:


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## Marsen (Jun 3, 2020)

Ok, here´s my entry. Hope you like it


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## Jacob Fanto (Jun 3, 2020)

Marsen said:


> Ok, here´s my entry. Hope you like it



The vocals caught me so ridiculously off guard!


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## digikleuter (Jun 3, 2020)

Owkee, so here goes!
I don't own any library's accept the freebees, so this is what I came up with!
Love some feedback!


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## Drundfunk (Jun 3, 2020)

My time management fucked me this month and today is the first day in weeks where I actually could work on it. But yeah one day isn't enough for me to write four minutes of music. I am not that fast . Also I feel this scene is really complicated. I listened to some of your entries now and I like a lot of them. But truth to be told I think this scene needs to be saved in the edit. Just by the visuals there is no tension in this scene. It all seems super casual. The cars are slow, Aaron Paul is on a drug and apparently it's a big deal, but it's really not. I don't feel like him "switching genres" does anything or adds anything. He seems a little bit out of it, but that's about it. It feels like he would have missed the shot anyway, even if he wasn't drugged. The wooden performance (pun intended) doesn't really help either imo (Only watched Westworld season 1. Is she still a robot?). The whole scene is kinda awkward imo. This switching genre thing sounds like a cool idea, but if the movie doesn't show me how cool/bad it is, how should I as the viewer get any grasp of that? (Alright yeah music, but Aaron Paul doesn't really react to the chase itself....). Btw I also feel like Wagner's Valkyries doesn't work either... . The quiet electro car sound fx doesn't help as well... . I'm really looking forward to hear the winning entry. Might give me a new idea and a new angle about approaching film, because honestly, I'm not sure what would work for this scene. So far I didn't hear one entry where music and film fuse together in a way that watching the scene feels organic and interesting. But I don't think that's the music's fault or if that is even possible.... . Anyway, looking forward to the 19th to hear the winning entry and good luck to you all!


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## Hat_Tricky (Jun 3, 2020)

Whelp, here's my entry.




I wonder if the volume of the music is too much for the FX and dialogue. Too quiet, and I felt like my orchestrations didn't "hit" enough (and harder to hear for judges). Too loud, and they drown out the dialogue and important FX. I tried orchestrating around where it made sense, but I could not for the life of me get the "car robot" voice to poke through enough for my liking. Oh well, who listens to car robots, anyways, amirite?

Good luck to everyone and I hope you all had a blast with this, it really was fun. Any feedback would be amazing! If the levels aren't good, I can probably still have time to edit it before the deadline!


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## Jacob Fanto (Jun 3, 2020)

digikleuter said:


> Owkee, so here goes!
> I don't own any library's accept the freebees, so this is what I came up with!
> Love some feedback!



Well, right off the bat, you can't really adjust the speed of the actual clip in order to fit your music my friend (if that's what you even had in mind, who knows). It looks like you've got the clip on 1.5x speed, which may be an instant disqualification. And even if not, it just makes the whole thing absolutely silly.

My suggestion is that you take the original clip, leave it on normal speed, and then see what you can compose regardless of the competition. Use it to practice. Hit certain points in the scene, don't just write a piece and throw it on top of the clip. For example, the music should at least acknowledge the gunfire, the genre change, the turn left, etc.


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## Jacob Fanto (Jun 3, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> It's time to stop tweaking it just release it into the wild. If anyone is interested, here's my submission...



Love this! Best genre change I've seen out of any entry so far. But careful man, the rules state that no themes/ideas from Westworld may be used. I'm an avid watcher of the show, so I picked up on what you got goin during that sneaky HBO closing card


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## Jacob Fanto (Jun 3, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> Love this! Best genre change I've seen out of any entry so far. But careful man, the rules state that no themes/ideas from Westworld may be used. I'm an avid watcher of the show, so I picked up on what you got goin during that sneaky HBO closing card


You've also got it at 1:30... intentional or no?


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## jononotbono (Jun 3, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> Love this! Best genre change I've seen out of any entry so far. But careful man, the rules state that no themes/ideas from Westworld may be used. I'm an avid watcher of the show, so I picked up on what you got goin during that sneaky HBO closing card



Thanks man. Glad you liked it! 

I haven’t used any West World themes. It’s all my own music. If you think I have, It’s just coincidence. I would never specifically steal anyone’s music and nor would I use anyone’s music in this competition as I’ve read the FAQ and T&C. The closing card is part of my Guitar reversed


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## Marsen (Jun 3, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> The vocals caught me so ridiculously off guard!


Best performance, I could get from my cleaning woman.


----------



## Michael Stibor (Jun 3, 2020)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> More or less how I expect it to be done. If I'm listening around for good entries, I'll listen for 5 seconds starting around where they get shot at in the intro. If it's incredibly boring or misplaced, I'll move the time marker to where Caleb trips and listen another 5. If it's also boring, I'll skip again to the chase right after his trip. And if _that too_ is boring, then onto the next video. Thus I give a video about 15 seconds of listening, plus or minus a few, to know whether it's decent or not. If it ain't decent, it ain't got a chance to be a winner, so into the dustbin. If it _is_ good, or stands out, then (if I were a judge) I'd place it into a higher category, one that deserves more review time, probably by a different person. Etc.
> 
> I expect they'll have a pool of 100 or so truly excellent entries by the last few days of judging. Then it will be hard to decide amongst these as they will all be so incredibly good, that they'll probably start removing entries for having a mistake or a weak moment, until they can distill it down to only a handful, of which they'll pick 6.
> 
> The big judges (the named ones who are celebrities of certain standing) will almost definitely only be involved once there are 100 (or less) entries in the pool. They're busy people and there's no way they'd have time to watch all these videos even for 15 seconds, let alone to completion. So that's how I'd run the judgement process logistically. There would also be guidelines as to how the assistant judges would make decisions about musical quality, and ideally they'd have some level of knowledge of film music to be able to be critical and decide what works and what doesn't.


I agree with this. How we I would be shocked if the any of the judges listened to anything less then the final twenty, maybe even less.


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## Dr.Quest (Jun 3, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> It's time to stop tweaking it just release it into the wild. If anyone is interested, here's my submission...



Nice! I like the genre change up quite a bit but you almost lost me with the guitar playing the same thing for so long. I almost clicked it off but decided to see what happened. It got more interesting.


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## Jacob Fanto (Jun 3, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Thanks man. Glad you liked it!
> 
> I haven’t used any West World themes. It’s all my own music. If you thinkI have, It’s just coincidence. I would never specifically steal anyone’s music and not would I use anyone’s music in this competition as I’ve Red the FAQ and T&C. The closing card is part of my Guitar reversed


Ahh I see, yeah Westworld's main theme and various thematic fragments throughout the episodes use a reversed piano effect that sounds nearly identical to your reverse guitar in a similar melodic sequence. I still think yours is cool though and also done well!


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## jononotbono (Jun 3, 2020)

Dr.Quest said:


> Nice! I like the genre change up quite a bit but you almost lost me with the guitar playing the same thing for so long. I almost clicked it off but decided to see what happened. It got more interesting.


Thanks man.


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## visiblenoise (Jun 3, 2020)

Hat_Tricky said:


> Whelp, here's my entry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, now I'm thinking I went too loud with the music in mine... but I didn't think the music in yours was too loud at all. In fact I thought there was room to make it louder at points. The FX and dialogue were not that exciting =P

But interesting orchestrations, anyhow! I especially like the way you did the rocket sequence.


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## visiblenoise (Jun 3, 2020)

Basically finished mine last night, but since it wasn't the deadline yet, I spent some of today making a bunch of small subtle adjustments that nobody would have ever picked up on or appreciated.


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## mike_solar (Jun 3, 2020)

This competition has been a joy to participate in. Congrats to everyone who has entered. There have been so many great and unique submissions. It was especially fun to see all the creative choices you guys make while scoring to picture. Really great stuff!!

Here's mine:


I've been setting up a modular system for some time and took this as an opportunity to try syncing my DAW up to Eurorack and performing with the envelopes and filters while recording to tempo. I purposefully avoided any orchestra but did end up adding an electronic layer from Spitfire Albion 3. I also snuck in some Spitfire Chamber Strings but mostly added rhythmic gating on those tracks so it sounds more electronic.


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## visiblenoise (Jun 3, 2020)

Aleksandr Sol said:


> Had a *really* great time writing, love the show, enjoyed the process.
> 
> Genuinely wish everyone good luck.



Wish the music reacted to the picture a little more, but I'm really liking the subtle vibe.


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## visiblenoise (Jun 3, 2020)

mike_solar said:


> This competition has been a joy to participate in. Congrats to everyone who has entered. There have been so many great and unique submissions. It was especially fun to see all the creative choices you guys make while scoring to picture. Really great stuff!!
> 
> Here's mine:
> 
> ...



Time well spent with the Eurorack! I like a lot of the sound design in this one. It's a little bass-boomy at points but apart from that I enjoyed it.


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## Hat_Tricky (Jun 3, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> Basically finished mine last night, but since it wasn't the deadline yet, I spent some of today making a bunch of small subtle adjustments that nobody would have ever picked up on or appreciated.




Oh man I love the sounds towards end of the chase after the last car comes through the fire. They just match perfectly - and the gnarly low sound somehow is present and big, but leaves room for the dialogue - smart! Love the horns as the car comes over the hill too. Good work!


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## Cheezus (Jun 3, 2020)

Had loads of fun with this. It's very oddball.

Enjoy!



@Michael Stibor


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## MarcHedenberg (Jun 3, 2020)

Well I positively had no fucking idea what I was doing here but that was fun at least.


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## jononotbono (Jun 3, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> Ahh I see, yeah Westworld's main theme and various thematic fragments throughout the episodes use a reversed piano effect that sounds nearly identical to your reverse guitar in a similar melodic sequence. I still think yours is cool though and also done well!



Thanks man. Was a blast doing this!


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## J-M (Jun 3, 2020)

Well well, it turns out that I actually CAN write four minutes of music in two days. Is it good? Probably not. xD First time scoring to video, so if the more experienced fellas here happen to watch my sad attempt at scoring then please, do tear it to shreds and tell me what went wrong and what (if anything) went right. :D


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## squishy boi (Jun 3, 2020)

Another long time lurker reporting in. I toyed with doing a waltz-esque thing on the genre change in a sort of tongue-in-cheek fashion. Problem is, I don't even know how to do that. So... the result is this thing with possibly too many ideas happening later on. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

It's been fun looking at everyone's submissions. Personally hoping one of the unique approaches wins.


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## Pontus Rufelt (Jun 3, 2020)

This was quite the challenge! Here is my entry.


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## josephspirits (Jun 3, 2020)

One of the best things about this competition has been getting to see work by so many of the people on here that I have been reading for years, great stuff everyone. Going to watch a bunch more tonight on the _big screen_ (my tv) in honor of finally finishing.

I embraced the genre change whole heartedly, let's just say things got a bit... jazzy


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## josephspirits (Jun 3, 2020)

squishy boi said:


> Another long time lurker reporting in. I toyed with doing a waltz-esque thing on the genre change in a sort of tongue-in-cheek fashion. Problem is, I don't even know how to do that. So... the result is this thing with possibly too many ideas happening later on. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> It's been fun looking at everyone's submissions. Personally hoping one of the unique approaches wins.




Oh man I can't wait to watch this one just based on that thumbnail.


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## stargazer (Jun 3, 2020)

... and yet another one...


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## meradium (Jun 3, 2020)

Ok, last minute decision to join as well  Almost forgot about it. But sometimes having only limited time might actually help to get s*** done. Here is my two evening effort. Good workout after the regular office workday. My first action chase...


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## wwwm (Jun 3, 2020)

Sigh. I just ran out of time to handle the production aspects for the competition. Really disappointing... I thought I wrote a neat piece, but seriously underestimated the time it would require to make a professional-sounding rendering.


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## fish_hoof (Jun 3, 2020)

Best of luck everyone! That was a blast and enjoyed hearing everyones unique approaches to one scene.


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## Jacob Fanto (Jun 3, 2020)

MrLinssi said:


> Well well, it turns out that I actually CAN write four minutes of music in two days. Is it good? Probably not. xD First time scoring to video, so if the more experienced fellas here happen to watch my sad attempt at scoring then please, do tear it to shreds and tell me what went wrong and what (if anything) went right. :D



It's good for 2 days of work. And I do really like the less-bombastic approach to the whole scene, but I just felt it was way too laid back for the intensity of the scene. You barely hit any points, and the choice to not score over any of the genre shift will not go to your favor when judged. Bottom line, it's pretty decent, just nothing too special. But considering it's your first time scoring to film, I think it's a great start!


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## hayvel (Jun 3, 2020)

The best thing about this competition is to see/hear all the different approaches to the absolute same 4 minutes of film - and many of them actually work great despite being completely different. Just amazing, I really enjoy watching the artwork of all you guys. And Hats off to Spitfire and HBO to bring this to life.

But now, I really "need distance" from hearing the same dialog over and over again  and a bit of sleep.


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## Sub3OneDay (Jun 3, 2020)

squishy boi said:


> Another long time lurker reporting in. I toyed with doing a waltz-esque thing on the genre change in a sort of tongue-in-cheek fashion. Problem is, I don't even know how to do that. So... the result is this thing with possibly too many ideas happening later on. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> It's been fun looking at everyone's submissions. Personally hoping one of the unique approaches wins.



I like what you did there with the waltz over the long shot of the car slide - almost perfect! This is the first entry that I’ve heard that is a bit less “predictable”... although that’s not to say there are a lot of great entries to listen to yet!


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## Jacob Fanto (Jun 3, 2020)

meradium said:


> Ok, last minute decision to join as well  Almost forgot about it. But sometimes having only limited time might actually help to get s*** done. Here is my two evening effort. Good workout after the regular office workday. My first action chase...



Cool stuff! Just a quick note though, the audio levels of the music is too loud for the dialogue and FX in general.


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## meradium (Jun 3, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> Cool stuff! Just a quick note though, the audio levels of the music is too loud for the dialogue and FX in general.



Most likely, but I didn't have any time to bother with the compressor. I literally had one minute left once the render went through


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## davetbass (Jun 3, 2020)

Here's my version, obviously too late for constructive criticism for the contest, but curious what anyone thinks, thanks!


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## Sub3OneDay (Jun 3, 2020)

Ok so another late entry here - only a couple of evenings work so probably not as polished as I’d like...

but I too went for something a bit different just to push myself out of my comfort zone a bit...

I didn’t want to do booms and orchestral ostinatos etc So I took some inspiration from Lalo Schifrin’s Bullitt soundtrack and went for keys and horns...


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## Nite Sun (Jun 3, 2020)

Damn it! Was almost pleased with my job on this before I completely ran out of time and filled the last third of the film with complete and utter bollocks. Didn't even get round to scoring the final explosion sequence, but with a bit of luck it'll be interpreted by the judges as a stroke of spotting genius


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## Instrugramm (Jun 3, 2020)

I guess I won't be competing as I didn't have time to actually score the whole scene but I did do a quick mock-up for the beginning, it's fun after all.


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## josephwmorgan (Jun 3, 2020)

Is anyone having trouble where when you upload your video YOUR audio/music is removed but the show's audio remains?


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## mike_solar (Jun 3, 2020)

visiblenoise said:


> Time well spent with the Eurorack! I like a lot of the sound design in this one. It's a little bass-boomy at points but apart from that I enjoyed it.


Thanks for the feedback! Just went back in and started mixing again without the mov and dialog! So essential to do this - but too late now to re-load I'm afraid.... Super fun exercise either way.


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## iggyigoe (Jun 3, 2020)

josephwmorgan said:


> Is anyone having trouble where when you upload your video YOUR audio/music is removed but the show's audio remains?


Happened to me today.. Tried uploading the HD version of the file but Youtube deleted my music? Went back and created a SD version (720) and it worked.. Really strange!?!


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## josephwmorgan (Jun 3, 2020)

iggyigoe said:


> Happened to me today.. Tried uploading the HD version of the file but Youtube deleted my music? Went back and created a SD version (720) and it worked.. Really strange!?!



dang..that really sucks. Was so happy I got mine uploaded and turned in RIGHT in time just to find out this happened 👎


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## iggyigoe (Jun 3, 2020)

josephwmorgan said:


> dang..that really sucks. Was so happy I got mine uploaded and turned in RIGHT in time just to find out this happened 👎


Yeah, no idea what happened.. Strange how Youtube could separate the music and dialog from an embedded video..? Bizarre


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## MK_5000 (Jun 3, 2020)

Hi guys,

first post from me here. Wanted to share my orchestral focused entry as well. 
Thanks for checking it out.


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## Slavomir (Jun 3, 2020)

hi,

I'd love to hear your opinions about my first scoring to picture. Cheers!


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## arznable (Jun 3, 2020)

Hi, just uploaded and submitted to Spitfire literally 35 mins before cutoff time, and I am glad I just made it, ha ha.

Thanks so much to Luke (jononotbono) for the tips about uploading to YouTube. I eventually used 48kHz 24-bit WAV format, and hope the sound will be ok.

By the way, I found mine does not have the following info at the end of my YT video description while everybody else does:

Category : Music
Suggested by WBTV : HBO

Was I doing something wrong with the submission? Thanks a lot.


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## jononotbono (Jun 3, 2020)

arznable said:


> Thanks so much to Luke (jononotbono) for the tips about uploading to YouTube.



Hey man. No problem. Even though my advice was a little drunkenly written 

Sounds good man!


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## Michael Stibor (Jun 3, 2020)

Cheezus said:


> Had loads of fun with this. It's very oddball.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> ...



Haha, I love it. If I wasn’t watching it, and just hearing it from another room, I would think someone was watching a late sixties detective film. Good job!


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## Cheezus (Jun 3, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> Haha, I love it. If I wasn’t watching it, and just hearing it from another room, I would think someone was watching a late sixties detective film. Good job!



Haha I almost went full-blast on that angle but it was too late, so it kinda got sprinkled in there along with about a million other half-implemented ideas.

Appreciate the feedback!


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## jononotbono (Jun 3, 2020)

Cheezus said:


> Haha I almost went full-blast on that angle but it was too late, so it kinda got sprinkled in there along with about a million other half-implemented ideas.
> 
> Appreciate the feedback!



Love it man! I almost feel 60s detectives are going to knock on my door. Maybe it's 60s looters instead.


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## Peter Wayne (Jun 3, 2020)

arznable said:


> By the way, I found mine does not have the following info at the end of my YT video description while everybody else does:
> 
> Category : Music
> Suggested by WBTV : HBO



It's just if you select a category for the video. I don't think it really matters imho. As long as you have the tag #westworldscoringcompetition2020 and submitted your link and info to the Spitfire page I think that's all you need.


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## arznable (Jun 3, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Hey man. No problem. Even though my advice was a little drunkenly written
> 
> Sounds good man!


Just watched yours, the country music style approach was really interesting. Never thought of that before!


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## jononotbono (Jun 3, 2020)

arznable said:


> Just watched yours, the country music style approach was really interesting. Never thought of that before!



Well, Delores did say, "Head South"! 

Thanks for listening man!


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## quentinkoons (Jun 3, 2020)

I hope I'm the only one using trap drums. If not please share the others with me!


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## Manaberry (Jun 4, 2020)

Westworld entries post got our beloved forum down :<


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## Pincel (Jun 4, 2020)

Manaberry said:


> Westworld entries post got our beloved forum down :<



Don't ask me why, but I had the same thought. xD


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## Peter Satera (Jun 4, 2020)

Since everyone is posting theirs here's my shot at it. Crunched it out as I had a deadline days before submission. Working under pressure is good though.



Looking forward in listening to others.


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## robharvey (Jun 4, 2020)

MarcHedenberg said:


> Well I positively had no fucking idea what I was doing here but that was fun at least.



You say that, but I actually really like yours!


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## JoeBarlow (Jun 4, 2020)

Supremo said:


> I honestly think your entry is gonna be one of the top contenders to win this damn thing. ) Everything here is so spot on!


Hey thanks mate, but I doubt it; I've heard some crazy submissions already 😅
Yours is killer btw I wish I'd thought to go flamenco, best of luck!


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## MarcHedenberg (Jun 4, 2020)

robharvey said:


> You say that, but I actually really like yours!



aw, you’re too kind. There was more I wanted to do towards the end to build crescendo, but I simply ran out of time. I may go back in and fix that for fun seeing as I’ve got nothing better to do.


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## Cheezus (Jun 4, 2020)

quentinkoons said:


> I hope I'm the only one using trap drums. If not please share the others with me!




Lol I had trap drums in my entry for whenever the bad guys were on screen, but later removed them to focus only on the orchestra.

Haven't seen any others with them. Great entry!


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## Manaberry (Jun 4, 2020)

Found this gem on fb.


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## CT (Jun 4, 2020)

I assume for maximum realism, tomorrow we'll get the scene back with nine non-consecutive seconds removed and two hours to adjust our entry accordingly?


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## josephspirits (Jun 4, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> Love this! Best genre change I've seen out of any entry so far. But careful man, the rules state that no themes/ideas from Westworld may be used. I'm an avid watcher of the show, so I picked up on what you got goin during that sneaky HBO closing card



I also struggled a lot with this. I had a written a little jazz riff quote of the theme for the title cards at the end, that was quite different note wise, but ultimately improvised something different to play it safe.


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## Pluti (Jun 4, 2020)

Hello, my first post here and first-ever action sequence score. I've lately mostly been writing music for 3-year-olds  I only found about the competition on Tuesday, decided not to listen to the real version in order to avoid the influence of how it is "supposed to sound", so needless to say I was quite surprised today to find the Valkyries had flown into the scene. I guess there's a connection to previous events somewhere or do you know why he uses that reference? Now all I can think of are the helicopters moving in over Vietnam. Glad I found this forum today from searching for the hashtag, seems like a really helpful crowd! So, greetings from a well-lit night sky in Helsinki and a correspondingly overpositive score, with some overused (i get that now...) BRAAAWs. Tried to mix this at -23LUFS but didn't quite make it before having to submit. Thankful for any feedback.


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## arznable (Jun 4, 2020)

Peter Wayne said:


> It's just if you select a category for the video. I don't think it really matters imho. As long as you have the tag #westworldscoringcompetition2020 and submitted your link and info to the Spitfire page I think that's all you need.


Thanks Peter. The "Suggested by WBTV : HBO" thing shows up in the video description today, don't know what it is though. By the way, there is a typo error in your signature which you may want to correct...


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## ned3000 (Jun 4, 2020)

Peter Wayne said:


> 2am here in Japan and I'm finally done! (with 9 hours to spare before the competition closes). I started a bit late with this competition, but in some ways I'm glad I did otherwise I would have spent the whole month tweaking things.
> 
> I played it straight down the line with hybrid, orchestral and musical sound design. I really tried to focus on the story and emotional arcs of the footage.
> 
> Lots of amazing entries in this forum. Would be awesome if someone from VI control won.




I like this one. It seems like there's not a lot of that kind of orchestral approach (I was starting to think I was the only one to do that.) Some cool synth stuff in there too, but working more as color than the main focus.


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## ReDiRoma (Jun 4, 2020)

Hey all, new to the forum, love to y'all. This is me :

 

NERO


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## J-M (Jun 4, 2020)

Jacob Fanto said:


> It's good for 2 days of work. And I do really like the less-bombastic approach to the whole scene, but I just felt it was way too laid back for the intensity of the scene. You barely hit any points, and the choice to not score over any of the genre shift will not go to your favor when judged. Bottom line, it's pretty decent, just nothing too special. But considering it's your first time scoring to film, I think it's a great start!



I'll take "nothing too special" over "absolute dogshit" anytime of the week. Thanks for the feedback mate!


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## Hat_Tricky (Jun 4, 2020)

Well now i'm SURE my video was not only overall to quiet, but my music was too low in the mix.

After listening to the youtube video, it sounds like whatever encoding it does when uploading crushed the overall volume AND somehow my music sounds even more hidden then before. Its not terrible, but enough that things dont hit correctly ("left turn", the modulations at "head south: and when Jesse pops through the sunroof, woodwinds are totally lost when they are suppoosed to poke through a little)

Even the intro strings are buried after the initial gunshots. It sounded good on headphones, my monitors, and even my phone before uploading. what gives lol?


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## ned3000 (Jun 4, 2020)

Hat_Tricky said:


> Well now i'm SURE my video was not only overall to quiet, but my music was too low in the mix.
> 
> After listening to the youtube video, it sounds like whatever encoding it does when uploading crushed the overall volume AND somehow my music sounds even more hidden then before. Its not terrible, but enough that things dont hit correctly ("left turn", the modulations at "head south: and when Jesse pops through the sunroof, woodwinds are totally lost when they are suppoosed to poke through a little)
> 
> Even the intro strings are buried after the initial gunshots. It sounded good on headphones, my monitors, and even my phone before uploading. what gives lol?




My favorite part of the threads/discussion about this has been everyone just calling Aaron Paul's character "Jesse".

It does sound like the music there could be mixed louder. Also, the YouTube process seems to kill some of the detail. They do let you edit your submission (not sure if that applies after the deadline or not) so it might be worth remixing/uploading.


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## Peter Wayne (Jun 4, 2020)

arznable said:


> Thanks Peter. The "Suggested by WBTV : HBO" thing shows up in the video description today, don't know what it is though. By the way, there is a typo error in your signature which you may want to correct...


THANKS! Fixed it now. 



ned3000 said:


> I like this one. It seems like there's not a lot of that kind of orchestral approach (I was starting to think I was the only one to do that.) Some cool synth stuff in there too, but working more as color than the main focus.


Thanks for the feedback! Yeah I used synths as colors as a way to set things up and help drive the action. Most of the melodic lines are orchestral, but there is always some type of synth (or fully effected orchestral samples) as the undercurrent. I had a lot of fun trying to come up with new sounds for this. Hopefully I succeeded in this area, but it's really hard to stand out among so many great entries.

I had a listen to your entry. I really liked it and some areas had a similar approach to mine. But I will say the music was too loud compared to the sound effects for my tastes. Not that we have to hear all the sound effects all the time and there are times when the music can shine. However I do think you might want to consider turning down a few elements in your music mix. Other than that I liked how the scene flowed well with the music.


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## Briscoe (Jun 4, 2020)

Hey everyone, there are some insane submissions. 

I went with the pure modular approach, which seems to me that not many people did, so I decided to share. It was a last minute entry, and I focused on sound design, key scenes, and tried to impart a certain ambience that might give it a different feeling.

In terms of "mixing", it's completely raw, I had no time to polish it, so have some mercy.


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## ned3000 (Jun 4, 2020)

Peter Wayne said:


> THANKS! Fixed it now.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback! Yeah I used synths as colors as a way to set things up and help drive the action. Most of the melodic lines are orchestral, but there is always some type of synth (or fully effected orchestral samples) as the undercurrent. I had a lot of fun trying to come up with new sounds for this. Hopefully I succeeded in this area, but it's really hard to stand out among so many great entries.
> ...



Yeah, I tried to stay out of the way of the dialog but realized the thing about crushing the sound effects too late in the process. I suddenly thought how if this were a real gig the guys who intricately crafted the projectile homing sound would murder me.


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## Hat_Tricky (Jun 4, 2020)

ned3000 said:


> My favorite part of the threads/discussion about this has been everyone just calling Aaron Paul's character "Jesse".
> 
> It does sound like the music there could be mixed louder. Also, the YouTube process seems to kill some of the detail. They do let you edit your submission (not sure if that applies after the deadline or not) so it might be worth remixing/uploading.



THanks for the feedback, I really am kicking myself for not listening carefully to the youtube video before the deadline. Now that i'm listening to everyone's submissions here (wow there are absolute insane entries) I'm convinced my music is way to low. I will see if i can reupload without messing up the URL that spitfire has.

And LOL to the Jesse thing, I didn't even realize I did it until you replied!!!


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## arznable (Jun 4, 2020)

Hat_Tricky said:


> Well now i'm SURE my video was not only overall to quiet, but my music was too low in the mix.
> 
> After listening to the youtube video, it sounds like whatever encoding it does when uploading crushed the overall volume AND somehow my music sounds even more hidden then before. Its not terrible, but enough that things dont hit correctly ("left turn", the modulations at "head south: and when Jesse pops through the sunroof, woodwinds are totally lost when they are suppoosed to poke through a little)
> 
> Even the intro strings are buried after the initial gunshots. It sounded good on headphones, my monitors, and even my phone before uploading. what gives lol?



Wow, it sounded like your audio track wasn't properly mixed and mastered. Did you make sure your track has proper loudness level? What was your track's exact loudness level in LUFS before submitting?

By the way, you cannot re-upload after the deadline. The links in the Google Form are all dead now.


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## ynwtf (Jun 4, 2020)

Well, I can't be a newbie here forever eh? Might as well jump in the deep end and share my efforts. I picked up my first library on May 17th, just HOURS before learning of Spitfire's Spring Sale! I used this competition as justification for the purchase that I had been sitting on for months.  It is what it is.

So yeah. This was my adrenaline rushed, sleep-deprived crash course of wtf (!?) to even consider making deadline as I learned how to (mostly _not_) do things. Oh, there are errors. There. _Are_. Errors. _<--- I type that with an internal voice of Flash Gordon's Ming the Merciless, btw. I would be appreciative if you could read that with the appropriate voice as well, and thank you. _Still though, I'm just happy I was able to complete something in time enough for submission---by just a few hours at that. That really surprised me and felt like one helluvan accomplishment.

So screw-ups and poor decision-making aside, here's my first score and first share in these forums. _Be gentle.

_


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## stargazer (Jun 5, 2020)

Please accept my apologies for bringing another submission to the table!
😉
I had great fun doing this, even though it was a challenge to do it without a brief or some kind of dramaturgical guidelines.
To me, due to the lack of engine sounds, the electric cars seemed slow, watching the scene without music, so my main focus was to make the chase seem faster and more exciting.
Ended up with some kind of typical action music, but tried to develop a simple theme, that was hinted throughout the scene and and not completed until the last ”acceleration” sequence.
Let me know your thoughts, and good luck to all participants!


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## Supremo (Jun 5, 2020)

stargazer said:


> Please accept my apologies for bringing another submission to the table!
> 😉
> I had great fun doing this, even though it was a challenge to do it without a brief or some kind of dramaturgical guidelines.
> To me, due to the lack of engine sounds, the electric cars seemed slow, watching the scene without music, so my main focus was to make the chase seem faster and more exciting.
> ...



Wow, this one is cool as f... and very well-produced! I like those strings, they bring some sentimental vibes to the otherwise action-based score and sound incredble. Congrats and best of luck!


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## SamC (Jun 5, 2020)

Very interesting discussion - kinda wish I found this a month ago!

So inspiring to see so many people go for this and paint it with their own personal taste.

I was also torn with the “futuristic synth epic elements” which I am not good at! I’m more of an orchestral composer so tried to skirt between both those style in mine. Either way, it was good fun working to such a challenging scene.


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## Supremo (Jun 5, 2020)

ynwtf said:


> Well, I can't be a newbie here forever eh? Might as well jump in the deep end and share my efforts. I picked up my first library on May 17th, just HOURS before learning of Spitfire's Spring Sale! I used this competition as justification for the purchase that I had been sitting on for months.  It is what it is.
> 
> So yeah. This was my adrenaline rushed, sleep-deprived crash course of wtf (!?) to even consider making deadline as I learned how to (mostly _not_) do things. Oh, there are errors. There. _Are_. Errors. _<--- I type that with an internal voice of Flash Gordon's Ming the Merciless, btw. I would be appreciative if you could read that with the appropriate voice as well, and thank you. _Still though, I'm just happy I was able to complete something in time enough for submission---by just a few hours at that. That really surprised me and felt like one helluvan accomplishment.
> 
> ...



Hi man! Are you sure you chose the right articulation for brass chords in your waltz-based theme? They lack some bite and sound a bit muddy, I'm afraid. Putting a solo cello is a brave choice and should add some extra points to your entry. Overall, your music sounds a bit too loud over dialogues, so some slight improvements in track balancing would be really helpful. Good luck bro.


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## Yogevs (Jun 5, 2020)

Between 30k and 40k submissions. How are they ever going to finish it 



#westworldscoringcompetition2020 http://www.youtube.com - Google Search


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## Peter Wayne (Jun 5, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> Between 30k and 40k submissions. How are they ever going to finish it
> 
> 
> 
> #westworldscoringcompetition2020 http://www.youtube.com - Google Search


Wouldn't that search just show everything on the internet though. Hope Spitfire Audio announce how many entries they got as it would be really interesting to know.


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## Pincel (Jun 5, 2020)

Yogevs said:


> Between 30k and 40k submissions. How are they ever going to finish it
> 
> 
> 
> #westworldscoringcompetition2020 http://www.youtube.com - Google Search



That's showing all kinds of stuff that contain the words in the search, so it's not accurate at all. The only accurate way of knowing is by the number of the google form applications they've got, which is obviously out of reach for us. I'd be surprised if they got much more than 5000-6000 entries at most though, and probably it's less than that, but who knows.


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## Eptesicus (Jun 5, 2020)

Pincel said:


> That's showing all kinds of stuff that contain the words in the search, so it's not accurate at all. The only accurate way of knowing is by the number of the google form applications they've got, which is obviously out of reach for us. I'd be surprised if they got much more than 5000-6000 entries at most though, and probably it's less than that, but who knows.



I think there are a LOT. Everyone and their dog seems to have made a submission.


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## Pincel (Jun 5, 2020)

stargazer said:


> Please accept my apologies for bringing another submission to the table!
> 😉
> I had great fun doing this, even though it was a challenge to do it without a brief or some kind of dramaturgical guidelines.
> To me, due to the lack of engine sounds, the electric cars seemed slow, watching the scene without music, so my main focus was to make the chase seem faster and more exciting.
> ...




That was amazing! The tempo is just right for beefing up the scene, great action scoring and very well produced. The added synthwave vibe just rocks and fits like a glove. I like what you did with the missile sequence too, very different from most. Really, really good overall!

Seeing all these great entries kinda makes me wish I had made different choices with my entry, but oh well, hindsight is 20/20 as they say. 

Congrats, and good luck!


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## Karl Feuerstake (Jun 5, 2020)

I think they will mention how many submissions they've received when the winners are announced. I will agree with Pincel's estimate. I was noticing during most of the inner days of the month, there were 50-100 submissions daily, and then large bursts of submissions at the start and end of it. On its own, 75*30 yields 2,250, so his estimate may be close yet.


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## Loïc D (Jun 5, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> I think there are a LOT. Everyone and their dog seems to have made a submission.


Given the fact that my cat keeps walking on my keyboard when I’m composing (which might explain lots), you are basically right


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## Eptesicus (Jun 5, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> Given the fact that my cat keeps walking on my keyboard when I’m composing (which might explain lots), you are basically right




I hope you have given it a writing credit


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## Lassi Tani (Jun 5, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Everyone and their dog seems to have made a submission.



True. I'm waiting for the time back to normal post feed with no competition submissions. The competition is everywhere


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## Leslie Fuller (Jun 5, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> I hope you have given it a writing credit



So many submissions here and on YouTube that I’ve searched and can’t find yours!


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## Loïc D (Jun 5, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> I hope you have given it a writing credit



She’s my ghostwriter of course.
I just give her food when she begs for it ; that’s how ghostwriting is...


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## ReDiRoma (Jun 5, 2020)

SamC said:


> Very interesting discussion - kinda wish I found this a month ago!
> 
> So inspiring to see so many people go for this and paint it with their own personal taste.
> 
> I was also torn with the “futuristic synth epic elements” which I am not good at! I’m more of an orchestral composer so tried to skirt between both those style in mine. Either way, it was good fun working to such a challenging scene.



Good music, bravo.


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## arznable (Jun 5, 2020)

stargazer said:


> Please accept my apologies for bringing another submission to the table!
> 😉
> I had great fun doing this, even though it was a challenge to do it without a brief or some kind of dramaturgical guidelines.
> To me, due to the lack of engine sounds, the electric cars seemed slow, watching the scene without music, so my main focus was to make the chase seem faster and more exciting.
> ...



Did I hear Elfman's batman theme at 1:18?


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## ynwtf (Jun 5, 2020)

Supremo said:


> Hi man! Are you sure you chose the right articulation for brass chords in your waltz-based theme? They lack some bite and sound a bit muddy, I'm afraid. Putting a solo cello is a brave choice and should add some extra points to your entry. Overall, your music sounds a bit too loud over dialogues, so some slight improvements in track balancing would be really helpful. Good luck bro.



Totally agree on volume. I had a minor (not so minor) panic attack day of submission chasing this in Premiere for just that reason! For as much as I tried to adjust, I guess I just didn't adjust enough. Still beats the inaudible volumes I started with lol. ugh. 

As to the right articulation choice, man who knows. I was literally clicking articulations, tapping around my keyboard to hear them and settled on this one for whatever reason, trying to use the sloppiest sounds I could find for a stumbling around kinda of vibe. There was no logic or process to it other than, "huh. That's interesting...."

Re: cello, that's where it all started, for the most part. I just loved that sound once I downloaded the library comparing the different instruments. Call me biased, I guess. I just love its sound.

My biggest concern is the simplicity of it all, and that I repeat so much, so often. Still, I'm comfortable with it for a first effort into this world. For fun, ya know? As Bill Murray always said, _"baby steps."_


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## stargazer (Jun 5, 2020)

arznable said:


> Did I hear Elfman's batman theme at 1:18?


Hopefully not, have to check.


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## arznable (Jun 5, 2020)

stargazer said:


> Hopefully not, have to check.


Here it is, the famous five-note motive...


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## stargazer (Jun 5, 2020)

arznable said:


> Here it is, the famous five-note motive...



I use a synth for hinting (the notes F, G and Ab) my little theme at 3:21.
At 1:18, my horns answer and overlaps with another short phrase (F, Db, C)
When combined, it actually sounds like the Batman theme.
Not by intention, but maybe due to some subconscious impulse.
On the other hand, those intervals are being used in every other thriller/action/drama.


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## jononotbono (Jun 5, 2020)

stargazer said:


> I use a synth for hinting (the notes F, G and Ab) my little theme at 3:21.
> At 1:18, my horns answer and overlaps with another short phrase (F, Db, C)
> When combined, it actually sounds like the Batman theme.
> Not by intention, but maybe due to some subconscious impulse.
> On the other hand, those intervals are being used in every other thriller/action/drama.



I don’t hear Batman at all. Don’t lose any sleep over this Batman comment. 😂


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## arznable (Jun 5, 2020)

stargazer said:


> On the other hand, those intervals are being used in every other thriller/action/drama.


That's true. By the way, I really like the composition, arrangement, and production, great job!


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## Michael Stibor (Jun 5, 2020)

stargazer said:


> Please accept my apologies for bringing another submission to the table!
> 😉
> I had great fun doing this, even though it was a challenge to do it without a brief or some kind of dramaturgical guidelines.
> To me, due to the lack of engine sounds, the electric cars seemed slow, watching the scene without music, so my main focus was to make the chase seem faster and more exciting.
> ...



Very good! Definitely one of my favourites. I'm not sure I understand the ending though. From when the motorcycle makes an appearance until the end. It seems triumphant and heroic and then just dissipates to silence. But I'm only mentioning that because you asked for thoughts. Otherwise its great. Very professionally done.


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## CyrilBellem (Jun 5, 2020)

Here's my entry (yet another one )

Any feedback are really welcome (either negative or positive, any advice is good to take!)


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## ReDiRoma (Jun 5, 2020)

CyrilBellem said:


> Here's my entry (yet another one )
> 
> Any feedback are really welcome (either negative or positive, any advice is good to take!)



Very talented, bravo.


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## iggyigoe (Jun 5, 2020)

May as well play along too..

Classic lurker here and very new to all this, never scored anything in my life (be kind)

Amazing entries to this, so much talent out there! Well done everyone

Thanks for looking


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## stargazer (Jun 5, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> Very good! Definitely one of my favourites. I'm not sure I understand the ending though. From when the motorcycle makes an appearance until the end. It seems triumphant and heroic and then just dissipates to silence. But I'm only mentioning that because you asked for thoughts. Otherwise its great. Very professionally done.


Thanks a lot for your feedback!
Regarding the ending: I’m not sure either 😉, but it was a challenge to work without a brief on what’s going on.
I felt when I tried to empasize the crash with music/sound it became less powerful, so I let it speak for itself.
Also, I have no idea what is real and what is virtual reality in this scene, or what’s going on in the main character’s head.
I just liked the contrasting melancholic vibe from the strings at the end.
Trying to leave some questions to the viewer, as it seems he’s going through some further ”genre change” as the crashing vehicles lights up his face at the very end.


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## Eptesicus (Jun 6, 2020)

What I do find a little odd, is that there are some fantastic "different genre" entries, but so many have it from the start, which in my opinion slightly ruins it (in scoring for picture terms)

That doesnt make a lot of sense to me story wise, because it confuses whether your intention is just to score the whole scene with a quirky/different take, or whether you are actively scoring to his drug trip/the scene.

I think its far more effective to make the genre change an actual change as the dialogue literally says "he's changing genres" and a massive big deal is made picture wise of him tripping out.


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## ReDiRoma (Jun 6, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> What I do find a little odd, is that there are some fantastic "different genre" entries, but so many have it from the start, which in my opinion slightly ruins it (in scoring for picture terms)
> 
> That doesnt make a lot of sense to me story wise, because it confuses whether your intention is just to score the whole scene with a quirky/different take, or whether you are actively scoring to his drug trip/the scene.
> 
> I think its far more effective to make the genre change an actual change as the dialogue literally says "he's changing genres" and a massive big deal is made picture wise of him tripping out.


Also, I got a feeling that if the "genre changing" concept should be reflected in the music, then maybe directing-wise it should be also reflected in the movie from that point on.
Whereas if you cut out the tripping sequence I would've never guessed.


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## Michael Stibor (Jun 6, 2020)

ReDiRoma said:


> Also, I got a feeling that if the "genre changing" concept should be reflected in the music, then maybe directing-wise it should be also reflected in the movie from that point on.
> Whereas if you cut out the tripping sequence I would've never guessed.


That's my train of thought too. In the original clip, the Ride of the Valkyries piece works because its so iconic. We didn't have that luxury, and were (understandably) required to write original music for the scene, therefore, it making it much more difficult to reference a particular film genre.

At the same time, it's not like the visuals really referenced the switch either, short of Jesse making a few googly eyes and head shakes. If the guy hadn't literally said "he's switching genres" it would've been a moot point and in my opinion, still is.


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## Eptesicus (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> That's my train of thought too. In the original clip, the Ride of the Valkyries piece works because its so iconic. We didn't have that luxury, and were (understandably) required to write original music for the scene, therefore, it making it much more difficult to reference a particular film genre.
> 
> At the same time, it's not like the visuals really referenced the switch either, short of Jesse making a few googly eyes and head shakes. If the guy hadn't literally said "he's switching genres" it would've been a moot point and in my opinion, still is.



I'm surprised with this line of thinking (ie that the scene didn't make a big deal of it).

To me it was a massive moment. In the middle of a car chase, it focuses solely on Caleb and then the whole picture is just his face tripping on this drug. 

I think if this were a real job and you treated that scene as a "moot point", as you have said, the director would be pretty ****** off.

Ofcourse how and whether they judge this competition as though they were the director is another story.


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## Michael Stibor (Jun 6, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> I'm surprised with this line of thinking (ie that the scene didn't make a big deal of it).
> 
> To me it was a massive moment. In the middle of a car chase, it focuses solely on Caleb and then the whole picture is just his face tripping on this drug.
> 
> I think if this were a real job and you treated that scene as a "moot point", as you have said, the director would be pretty ****** off.



I understand that, and agree with you. But in a way that’s my point. It’s not a real job. If it was, I probably would recommend NOT scoring the scene, and instead recommend to use pre-existing music from an iconic genre of film. Like what they did in the the original clip.

In this case, they give you the scene as a blank canvas, with intentionally no instructions. And in the context of what they’ve given us, the genre part means nothing. I’m not saying it can’t, or should’nt be used to the contest contestant’s advantage, but it’s not absolutely necessary.

My first draft went full genre. My favourite film is Amadeus, so I started writing the genre part as a tribute to the film using a more classical approach. It kinda worked. But it was taking a long time, so I went for a more 80s action style. And while I didn’t ignore the genre change, it became less of a focal point.

All this to say, that I‘ve watched a lot of submissions ( like a LOT) and I can’t say that I’ve seen one that used the genre part that I thought was extremely effective. At least, not more or less effective than those that chose not to. There were extremely good ones on both sides. That’s what I’m saying when I say it was a moot point.


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## MatthewVere (Jun 6, 2020)

Hey friends,

I've been composing for a month; this is the second project I've worked on. However, I have made Electronic music for over a decade and drew from this experience when creating the score. My goal was to fuse the Orchestral world with the Electronic one and create something that I thought would reflect this duality.

I participated purely for the experience; you can learn much when a deadline is in place.

Please share any feedback you have both as a viewer and a composer; this is my reason for posting. No need to sugar coat it either, if you think it doesn't work, please say so. I only ask that you explain why so I can learn and improve for future projects.

A couple of other mixes:


MUSIC ONLY MIX:




LOUDER DIALOG MIX:




Thank you.


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## Karl Feuerstake (Jun 6, 2020)

MatthewVere said:


> Hey friends,
> 
> I've been composing for a month; this is the second project I've worked on. However, I have made Electronic music for over a decade and drew from this experience when creating the score. My goal was to fuse the Orchestral world with the Electronic one and create something that I thought would reflect this duality.
> 
> ...




Your production quality is great and I think for the most part the tone you've gone after works. However I feel the music is too much in the background (and this is not related to volume); it's almost like a 'textural' / atmospheric soundtrack with a bit of a pulse to it.

I would say scrap the Low Brass "braaams". They're super-cliche and I think you can write better than that. There's nothing wrong with writing low, loud notes for the Low Brass, but when you repeat the same note over and over, or never hear another note after it, it's quite boring. It's something from the genre of "trailer music", and trailer music doesn't generally work in actual motion picture as it doesn't tell a story, it just sets up a tone and sustains that for something like only 30 seconds. In this you have 4 minutes of chase sequence with quite a bit of nuance to it, so it should be more interesting.

You also lack any clear melodic lines. There are moments where melodic fragments or even actual themes may work within the video; don't sell yourself short by never having one. They don't have to be too complicated, just some little tune in a higher-pitched voice might've helped breathe some character into the music (and I mean character as in building a relationship between the music and actual characters or motifs on screen.) Melodies are perfect for expressing an idea to the audience, while harmony and rhythm are perfect for setting up the 'tone', or in other words, providing the 'context' of said melody. Popular melodic instruments for an action scene might be French Horns, Violins, sometimes Trumpets; and there are other conventional ones depending on the sub-genre. The melody doesn't have to be elaborate or virtuousic, just something to draw a bit of attention to the music at certain moments.

I shouldn't talk too much out of my ass as I myself used only _very_ minimal melodic writing, but I do like to think I did have one, which I mostly associated with the interior-car scenes. Also, one thing I've learned about the subject of music criticism is that it's easier to be critical then it is to actually go about writing yourself; which is fine, as it means lots of people can provide perfectly valid input without being able to realize such ends themselves. I think this is because everyone knows how to 'listen' to music, and has an understanding of what works and doesn't, but actually translating that into a written score, well, that is the real craft of the art right there.

Hopefully some of this feedback helps. I know the feedback I got about my video definitely opened my eyes up  If you were curious about what I wrote or even wanted to be critical of mine (I'd be more than happy to get more feedback, and I don't mind the harsh criticisms) this is where I posted my entry:





__





Spitfire Westworld Competition SPINOFF - Composition Discussion, Advice and Examples


I'd really appreciate any harsh criticism Ok. It's produced well and taken on its own is probably a little more interesting than your average cinematic action music, but it feels over the top for this scene and not really all that connected to it, neither conceptually nor structurally, though...




vi-control.net





Cheers and thanks for sharing, and I did actually find your entry entertaining despite my comments


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## quentinkoons (Jun 6, 2020)

apollinaire said:


> This one is really different! I like the mix of orchestral/trap. What did you use for the 808/sub/kick? Sounds really good!



I wanted to make it as typical as possible so I used the DJ Spinz 808. 



Cheezus said:


> Lol I had trap drums in my entry for whenever the bad guys were on screen, but later removed them to focus only on the orchestra.
> 
> Haven't seen any others with them. Great entry!



Thank you! After I saw a lot of orchestral entries I regret a bit that I didn't do more trap 



Rasoul Morteza said:


> IMO, I suggest listening to Ludwig Göransson's Black Panther score to see how the rather metallic and in-face sound of such trap drum pattern could be smoothed out by some orchestration, and of course ketchup loads of reverb and high-end taming.
> 
> I wonder how it would've sounded to you if you solo'ed the track without the video, does it sound too heroic for an action scene? The more vocabulary you have in terms of chromatic writing and modulation the better you are able to confine your cues without getting into the extremes. Very important if you're mostly a melodic composer. Wagner or Bach can help you with that.
> 
> ...



Wow, thank you that's really really helpful.
I see your point with the resolving. I will keep it in mind and I will also listen to Göransson, Bach and Wagner!


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## Cheezus (Jun 6, 2020)

quentinkoons said:


> I wanted to make it as typical as possible so I used the DJ Spinz 808.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Check out my favorite example of orchestral trap, Göransson's Moff Gideon Theme from Mandalorian:


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## Dan Silva (Jun 6, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> I understand that, and agree with you. But in a way that’s my point. It’s not a real job. If it was, I probably would recommend NOT scoring the scene, and instead recommend to use pre-existing music from an iconic genre of film. Like what they did in the the original clip.
> 
> In this case, they give you the scene as a blank canvas, with intentionally no instructions. And in the context of what they’ve given us, the genre part means nothing. I’m not saying it can’t, or should’nt be used to the contest contestant’s advantage, but it’s not absolutely necessary.
> 
> ...



I totally agree with you. I understand why many people chose to go the genre-switching way on their entries, but I felt I needed to focus solely on what the clip showed, so the music could help tell that small story and make sense to anyone who watches the scene, even without a broader knowledge of the show’s plot.

Going in this direction, I thought the clip didn’t even offer much information on why there’s a guy “switching genres” and what the heck does this mean. We don’t have a clue about which genre he is experiencing at the beginning of the clip (it’s noir, if I remember correctly from watching the episode). That’s why I think even the official music sounds odd when you only watch that one scene, though it makes perfect sense in the context of the whole episode. 

I chose to let the music acknowledge something is happening when the genre switching occurs, but without trying to imply any meaning to it, just complementing the images. I think my entry ended up a simple attempt on an action score on a dark futuristic context.

Anyway, I already posted my track on the other thread, but here it is as well, if someone still has the patience to listen.


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## ReDiRoma (Jun 7, 2020)

Michael Stibor said:


> That's my train of thought too. In the original clip, the Ride of the Valkyries piece works because its so iconic. We didn't have that luxury, and were (understandably) required to write original music for the scene, therefore, it making it much more difficult to reference a particular film genre.
> 
> At the same time, it's not like the visuals really referenced the switch either, short of Jesse making a few googly eyes and head shakes. If the guy hadn't literally said "he's switching genres" it would've been a moot point and in my opinion, still is.


Also ,
not sure if they would blow the level of adrenaline and excitement of an entire massive car chase megascene , by scoring it with a music that doesn't steadily raise your heart rate.
Maybe they would, but it would be a slightly unorthodox choice.
But either way you are expected to make it work, of course.


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## Laddy (Jun 7, 2020)

Found this, made by that young prodigy who won the OT competition. Pretty mindblowing that he is only 17.


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## Loïc D (Jun 7, 2020)

Laddy said:


> Found this, made by that young prodigy who won the OT competition. Pretty mindblowing that he is only 17.




This is really impressive, even more for a 17yo guy. Probably the best take at a 80’s action 

Yet, I feel it’s a bit overscored compared to what happens on the screen. 
Close your eyes and listen and you’d expect a hi-energy & hi-tension action cue, not an iPad controlled futuristic golf car chase 
Also, the dialog track should be more in front.

This guy’s got a great future in scoring :D


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## Supremo (Jun 7, 2020)

Laddy said:


> Found this, made by that young prodigy who won the OT competition. Pretty mindblowing that he is only 17.



Gosh, are these even sample libraries or a live performance?!  Very impressive!


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## Loïc D (Jun 7, 2020)

It’s the first action scene I scored, and I did rewrite a lot of parts.
I found out that if your music lacks energy or is too static, it’s dragging the pace of movie down.
But if you put too many events and have a very rich score, it’s also dragging the movie down : the music sucks all the air in the room and is too much distracting.
Movie & music have to share the space with harmony, not aggression against eachother.

Also, dialogs are golden : the music shall never get in the way.

What I liked with this video is that the pace is not too quick and the editing leaves some moments for music development. But one might feel carried over and put loud music everywhere.

Actually, scoring to action is a lot about pushing the brake pedal.

That’s how I felt while scoring this, and also when watching a couple of entries.

My 2 cents


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## David Kudell (Jun 7, 2020)

Supremo said:


> Gosh, are these even sample libraries or a live performance?!  Very impressive!


Yes it’s pretty amazing the talent level for a 17 year-old! I really like this one, he can really do the John Williams style. I wish it was a little more prominent of genre switch and I was excited about hearing a big ending but it was more understated at the end. But amazing overall!


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## Leslie Fuller (Jun 7, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> Yes it’s pretty amazing the talent level for a 17 year-old! I really like this one, he can really do the John Williams style. I wish it was a little more prominent of genre switch and I was excited about hearing a big ending but it was more understated at the end. But amazing overall!



Yes, you’re right! Very “John Williams” style, and so impressive for 17 years old!


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## jononotbono (Jun 7, 2020)

Now the Westworld competition is over, here’s a new Scoring Competition for everyone. Winner gets a bottle of Corona...


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## Dale Turner (Jun 7, 2020)

A wee bit late to the posting party! But here's yet another Westworld jam, lol.
Mighty cool hearing such a wide variety of approaches all the participating musos in this group made! How totally cool is it that HBO/SPITFIRE made this clip available to have fun with? Awesome!

Still readin'? RAD!
I intentionally left any "action-y" madness for later in the 4+mins... opting to start (slowly) like "we're about to go into our very last battle, and will likely lose some friends along the way." And a couple "tempo and sound" choices I made contributed some "campiness" factor, because that fellar (Caleb) trippin' was kind of a crackup! Happy SUN!

Dale
[Edit: Apologies for posting this in both Westworld pages... Not sure which is appropriate for this... so... whammy of doubleness!]


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## Andrew Malloy (Jun 7, 2020)

I’ve heard alot of great scores so far, im also gonna drop mine here incase anyone is interested.


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## meradium (Jun 7, 2020)

This is really going to be interesting to see whom they choose as their winner... the variety of the submissions is really vast - from classical to almost techno


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## Dale Turner (Jun 7, 2020)

Andrew Malloy said:


> I’ve heard alot of great scores so far, im also gonna drop mine here incase anyone is interested.



Cool hearing some voices in there--during/after that aerial driving shot! And super awesome rhythmic activity kicking in at 1:52, and how it blossoms beyond that point!


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## tomc_020 (Jun 11, 2020)

I’ve enjoyed listening to so many of these entries! - great job everybody. Meant to post mine earlier but anyway, here it is. I really enjoyed the process. Feedback very much appreciated!


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## Black Light Recordings (Jun 11, 2020)

Dropping in to share my entry:


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## jonathanparham (Jun 11, 2020)

Black Light Recordings said:


> Dropping in to share my entry[/MEDIA]


Already commented on youtube. At your website also enjoyed the Hellfighters piece. Someone was working on a graphic novel of them. Hopefully, a movie will be in the works


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## TechHarlan (Jun 12, 2020)

Hello everyone, this is my entry for the contest.
Tried something different mixing in some modern sounds!

What do you think about it?


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## Loïc D (Jun 12, 2020)

Ah Simone, I was wondering if you entered the competition.
I really like what you’re doing and this one is no exception.
Good luck !


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## TechHarlan (Jun 14, 2020)

LowweeK said:


> Ah Simone, I was wondering if you entered the competition.
> I really like what you’re doing and this one is no exception.
> Good luck !



Thank you very much!


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## Saravakos (Jun 26, 2020)

Some really interesting interpretations from everyone here. Really enjoyable to hear everyones angle.
Here is my angle - using mostly modular synths and a tiny bit of samples.


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## Eptesicus (Jun 27, 2020)

Well for what it is worth, i never posted mine here but here it is, now its all over:




I took a massive risk and actually wrote a rock song for after the genre change , with lyrics, and sung on it and everything. I even persuaded my gf to harmonise on it. Personally i thought it worked really well with the song and lyrics expressing what was going on for Caleb and the human race in the series, but i guess Spitfire didn't .

Do watch to the end, as thats the best bit ( in my opinion :D). Just wish i had Adam Lambert to sing it for me..


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## reutunes (Jun 27, 2020)

NoamL said:


> Also I went back to the Bleeding Fingers competition and found the winning track.
> 
> Remember, they gave us all these stems:
> 
> ...



You were completely right.


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## HardyP (Jun 28, 2020)

reutunes said:


> You were completely right.


nope - he missed the number of entries by the power of ten ...


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## DexiMas (Jun 28, 2020)

Eptesicus said:


> Well for what it is worth, i never posted mine here but here it is, now its all over:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



dude, this is fantastic!


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## Eptesicus (Jun 29, 2020)

DexiMas said:


> dude, this is fantastic!



Thank you!


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## Kirk1701 (Jun 29, 2020)

Hello! I've actually just joined because I saw this is where the "big guns" were hanging out. (I don't mean that as cynically as it sounds.)

I resist classifying myself as I have so many creative interests, but I used this competition as an excuse to practice scoring in general. My musical life had leveled-off, so I needed to push myself to do something new--original even. I tend to look after leaping, so I had no idea what to expect.

By the time I'd submitted my entry, I'd accomplished all my goals. I've spent many years being rejected from the creative industries, so I've pretty much let go of any illusions of success (whatever that means).

I can listen to my entry without cringing (for now). That's a first. I set out to write a hero melody, as that's what the genre shift looked like to me. And I hit all the rhythmic beats in the scene. The rest is out of my hands.

I want to be a good sport. I knew my chances were nil to begin with. However, I cannot lie; it's disappointing to see my entry sitting steadily at 50 views. That is a definite bummer. I'm only human.

But that's how it goes. You don’t get to stroll into a crowded stadium and expect to stand out. Anyway, that's my time. Thanks for reading.

If you wanna watch:


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