# Who is using a 128gb Ram sample PC?



## gsilbers (Dec 7, 2015)

I wanted to see if there were folks out there with 1 computer with 128gb of ram for samples and how was it working out. 
and also what spec for cpu/mobo?
thanks


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## wbacer (Dec 7, 2015)

I'm running a 2013 Mac Pro 12 core with 128gb RAM, Logic Pro X, VEPro, no slaves.
Even when running a full orchestral template, I never use more that 45gb of RAM.
I could have saved some money and been just fine with 64gb of RAM.
I've been thinking about getting a PC slave but so far my Mac Pro is running just fine.


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## gsilbers (Dec 7, 2015)

good to know.

which cpu is that?


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 7, 2015)

JXL is using VisionDaw slaves with 128GB as well as the Dell poweredge servers as slaves. Don't know about the processors but you could look up the configurations that they offer on their 128GB system. Their latest ones can handle 512GB.


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## hawpri (Dec 7, 2015)

wbacer said:


> I'm running a 2013 Mac Pro 12 core with 128gb RAM, Logic Pro X, VEPro, no slaves.
> Even when running a full orchestral template, I never use more that 45gb of RAM.
> I could have saved some money and been just fine with 64gb of RAM.
> I've been thinking about getting a PC slave but so far my Mac Pro is running just fine.


I have almost the exact same setup- except I have the 6 core model. No problems here.


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## X-Bassist (Dec 7, 2015)

hawpri said:


> I have almost the exact same setup- except I have the 6 core model. No problems here.


How are you getting 128GB ram, third party Ram? I can't find a way to get it loaded this way from Apple. Did you buy the lowest Ram, then trash it and replace it with 4x32GB chips?


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## wbacer (Dec 7, 2015)

I bought my Mac Pro with 12gb of RAM. Then I bought 128gb from OWC and sold the 12gb back to OWC. Doing it that way I only spent a couple of $100 more for 128gb than if I would have bought the Mac Pro with 64gb of RAM.

As you know, usually when you boot up a Mac it only takes a few seconds from the time you press the on button until you hear the start up chime. With 128gb of RAM it takes about 30 seconds from the time you press the on button until you hear the start up chime. I asked Apple about that and they didn't have any idea. I asked OWC the same question and they said that with that much RAM it takes longer to do a RAM check. Who knows?? Once it boots up it works fine.


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## wbacer (Dec 7, 2015)

gsilbers said:


> good to know.
> 
> which cpu is that?


2.7 GHz 12-Core Intel Xeon E5


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## hawpri (Dec 7, 2015)

X-Bassist said:


> How are you getting 128GB ram, third party Ram? I can't find a way to get it loaded this way from Apple. Did you buy the lowest Ram, then trash it and replace it with 4x32GB chips?


Apple doesn't produce ram for the 2013 mac pro that allows it to reach 128GB. I went for the smallest and cheapest amount of ram included in the sales options, and then went through OWC for the upgrade.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Mac-Pro-Memory


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## scoringdreams (Dec 7, 2015)

Does having so much RAM (128GB) speeds anything up? Eg: Loading of Samples, Less Clipping?


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## hawpri (Dec 7, 2015)

scoringdreams said:


> Does having so much RAM (128GB) speeds anything up? Eg: Loading of Samples, Less Clipping?


No- from what (I think) I understand, the 128GB modules are slightly slower than a system with the 64GB sticks installed. Apparently, if a user actually utilizes more than 64GB of RAM the system will experience a significant decline in performance, so the cost of upgrading to 128GB seemed like a better investment.

The performance with the equivalent on a PC would be different, so maybe if Gerhard knows, he can fill us in on his experience there.


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## milesito (Dec 7, 2015)

my personal experience is that 128GB in my pc slave has changed everything as of last week. but this is based on how big your template is...personally, I use logic, so I need a mac to house logic. Mac's are super expensive. At first I regretted getting a mere iMac (fully loaded) but I had done it for the cost effectiveness of the system w/ monitor included for less than $3k. as my sample libraries increased and my tempalte has expanded, i needed more ram. my waves plug ins, ozone 6, the hybrid two libraries, and even NI damage, all required processing power and started really eating up my cores...and then let alone the 32GB of ram - kept running low. Since then last year, I built a PC slave...w/ 64 gB of ram. I filled it up to 40GB on my pc slave w/ samples in my template. this still lead to idiosycrocies with my imac and slave performance...my memory on my pc still was challenged....now i have upgraded to 128GB with a template on my pc filling up my ram ussage to about 48GB. it works fine, and everything is finally completely stable. 

If i were using cubase, i would get a PC with 128GB of ram and 1-2 processors and max it out...but for having to use logic, getting an iMAC maxed out for $3k and a slave PC maxed out for $2500-3k is WAY cheaper than a maxed out Mac Pro for $10k! 

this is just my experience over the past year...and now I am so happy I can house all of my PLAY instances and pretty much all 600 tracks of instruments (all the spitfire stuff, no more popping with the cinebrass/cineperc stuff) in my template w/o a hickup with over 50 aux busses ... it may be overkill (for now) but the stability and time savings compared to all the qwerks and freezing logic sessions...is worth is. the cost wasn't too bad in the end either...


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## gsilbers (Dec 8, 2015)

milesito said:


> my personal experience is that 128GB in my pc slave has changed everything as of last week. but this is based on how big your template is...personally, I use logic, so I need a mac to house logic. Mac's are super expensive. At first I regretted getting a mere iMac (fully loaded) but I had done it for the cost effectiveness of the system w/ monitor included for less than $3k. as my sample libraries increased and my tempalte has expanded, i needed more ram. my waves plug ins, ozone 6, the hybrid two libraries, and even NI damage, all required processing power and started really eating up my cores...and then let alone the 32GB of ram - kept running low. Since then last year, I built a PC slave...w/ 64 gB of ram. I filled it up to 40GB on my pc slave w/ samples in my template. this still lead to idiosycrocies with my imac and slave performance...my memory on my pc still was challenged....now i have upgraded to 128GB with a template on my pc filling up my ram ussage to about 48GB. it works fine, and everything is finally completely stable.
> 
> If i were using cubase, i would get a PC with 128GB of ram and 1-2 processors and max it out...but for having to use logic, getting an iMAC maxed out for $3k and a slave PC maxed out for $2500-3k is WAY cheaper than a maxed out Mac Pro for $10k!
> 
> this is just my experience over the past year...and now I am so happy I can house all of my PLAY instances and pretty much all 600 tracks of instruments (all the spitfire stuff, no more popping with the cinebrass/cineperc stuff) in my template w/o a hickup with over 50 aux busses ... it may be overkill (for now) but the stability and time savings compared to all the qwerks and freezing logic sessions...is worth is. the cost wasn't too bad in the end either...



cool.
do you mind showing your pc spec. what cpu and mobo?
and also, how are you using VEP with that big load? is it 64 midi tracks going to one vep instance or is it many 16 channel vep multi instruments?


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## Sean Beeson (Dec 8, 2015)

I just bought (it is being built right now) an 128GB (8x16gb DIMMS) with a 5820k on an ASRock Extreme 4. Should be getting it this week, will let you know how it goes! haha


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## gsilbers (Dec 8, 2015)

Sean Beeson said:


> I just bought (it is being built right now) an 128GB (8x16gb DIMMS) with a 5820k on an ASRock Extreme 4. Should be getting it this week, will let you know how it goes! haha


wow, that's EXACTLY the one I am trying to get. which brand of ram did you go with?


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## Sean Beeson (Dec 8, 2015)

That is a good question. Jim over at Studiocat.com builds my machines for me and has always done a killer job. I opted to put in 2x 1.2TB Intel 750s in it as well as a slew of SSDs, but no m.2 ultra, at least until it gets up to 1TB in size.

If I had to wager a guess, I would say it is probably Corsair ram? It seems like maybe they were the only ones who had the 16 GB dimms for that mobo/build. He also overclocked the processor to 4.4 gHz. Hoping it will be done tomorrow so I can pick it up. I highly recommend Jim.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 8, 2015)

I'd be careful with getting someone who knows what they're doing to build it. My PC's builder took a month to get 64GB working and he was trying on 4 different mobos. Using 2x 32GB kits ended up working. So with 128GB it might be even more finicky to get working. I've heard that the Kingston ram tends to be slightly higher quality than the others and ends up being more likely to work with larger amounts.

My board supposedly supports 128GB but I'm not going to risk having the computer become a doorstop from some incompatibility reason for a few years.


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## Sean Beeson (Dec 8, 2015)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> I'd be careful with getting someone who knows what they're doing to build it. My PC's builder took a month to get 64GB working and he was trying on 4 different mobos. Using 2x 32GB kits ended up working. So with 128GB it might be even more finicky to get working. I've heard that the Kingston ram tends to be slightly higher quality than the others and ends up being more likely to work with larger amounts.
> 
> My board supposedly supports 128GB but I'm not going to risk having the computer become a doorstop from some incompatibility reason for a few years.


Thats another reason I am hiring someone! haha If it doesn't work, I am getting my money back, or at least reconfiguring my build!


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## Przemek K. (Dec 8, 2015)

Sean, this will be very interesting, to see if it actually works. As far as I know the i7 5820K (I have it too) only supports up to 64gb ram. Only Xeon cpu's support over up to 128gb and even more. But who knows, maybe it works. I hope, because if it does, than maybe I will upgrade to 128 at some point too. Right now I'm upgrading from 32 to 64gb ram. Well, I wish it will work out for you. Keep us posted.


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## gsilbers (Dec 8, 2015)

nope:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2938...s-pc-with-128gb-of-cutting-edge-ddr4-ram.html

there is a video on youtube but cant find it


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## Przemek K. (Dec 8, 2015)

gsilbers said:


> nope:
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2938...s-pc-with-128gb-of-cutting-edge-ddr4-ram.html
> 
> there is a video on youtube but cant find it



Interesting, thanks for posting this. As I mentioned officially the i7 5820K supports up to 64gb ( http://ark.intel.com/products/82932/Intel-Core-i7-5820K-Processor-15M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz). I wonder if there are any downsides if it works, like maybe the integrated ram controller would slow down or something else. But if this works, than its even better, and I would not have to spend my bucks on a xeon cpu.


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## gsilbers (Dec 8, 2015)

Yes, i AM glad im taking my sweet time researching that came across this. And was exited to that someone here is looking for it as well


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## Przemek K. (Dec 8, 2015)

Haha, well researching can be fun


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## Allegro (Dec 8, 2015)

FWIW, I am currently looking to build a similar system with 5820k and from several sources and forums, it does indeed support 128GB DDR4 just fine according to multiple sources.
Edit: Just saw a link you posted already.

If I remember correctly, searching for "128Gb DDR4" ram on YT will also return some results with people trying out 128GB DDR4 on X99 and 5820k which works just fine for them.


Just to save you some time, the cheapest kit I've seen is available on newegg for around 860$. I still have no idea about the motherboards it will perfectly support etc.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...31853&cm_re=128gb_ddr4-_-20-231-853-_-Product

Qualified motherboard list for this kit:
http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-2400c14q2-128grk


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## milesito (Dec 8, 2015)

@gsilbers: I have the ASUS x99A ATX motherboard w/ the Intel i7-5820k processor (6 cores 3.3Ghz w/ hyperthreading).

please note - you can TRY to upgrade 32 GB of RAM to 64GB with the same brand as I tried (with crucial ballistix)...and even though companies tell you they're compatable, they may not be. Mine were unstable and sometimes it recognized all dims and sometimes it didn't. RAM is kind of loosly like matched pair microphonies. when you buy a set of 128GB of ram all together it is WAY better and more stable and they probably match them - so that your bios when booting up sees consistent voltages and can detect them...any ways, point being, if you have 32 GB or 64GB and you want to upgrade to 128GB, I would see the 32GB and buy a whole new set...or roll the dice on trying to "add more" of the same...

as for my VE Pro set up - i just followed Jay ASher's advise on this forum. I tried it many different ways in Logic and even paid for a class by one of the instructional tutorial video companies that have a class on VEPro set up in logic..but it was all wrong. the best set up and most stable is to have many .vi frames and distribute the load. I tried the one single .vi frame and while the tutorial i bought said to do it, it's all wrong. Jay also suggests only loading around 6-9ish instrumenets per .vi frame..not 16.

hope this helps...

milesito


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## gsilbers (Dec 8, 2015)

thats good to know thanks.


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## benatural (Dec 9, 2015)

To use more than 64 gb of RAM you do need a Xeon processor, and its recommended that you use buffered FCC memory. The reason why is that the potential for memory errors increase the more memory you have, and Xeon plus ECC memory are built to resolve those errors.

The good news is there are some Xeons that are very close in terms of spec and price to the new Haswell e processors.


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## gsilbers (Dec 9, 2015)

have you tried using non xeons non ecc ram before on this configuration for sample pc? there is a lot of reading materials on the web STATING you cannot use more than 64gb of ram on i7 and yet... there is that video showing it can be done.
...and showing what seems to be working all good.


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## milesito (Dec 9, 2015)

@benatural

just letting know i have 128GB of non-ECC RAM working with an i7 3rd generation intel processor. It took simply updating the MoBo to the latest bios release. Check your mother board's latest specs on their bios release schedule. i'm also overclocking the memory bus to 2800Mhz versus the rated 2400Mhz and the processor a little bit (although it probably isn't needed for samples)...

thanks...


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## benatural (Dec 9, 2015)

I stand corrected. Still, with hardware prices being fairly similar to non Xeon counterparts, why not go Xeon if not for ecc alone? I did a ton of research prior to building my latest system and found price to be almost equivalent if you choose the right CPU and ram.


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## chimuelo (Dec 9, 2015)

benatural said:


> The good news is there are some Xeons that are very close in terms of spec and price to the new Haswell e processors.


Very true.
Recently went with a half Xeon CPU currently becoming a rare beast.
I was going to try out the 2011-v3. CPU with the Supermicro C226.
Ive learned that low level cache and non buffered DIMMs (non ECC) has misses and errors when going above 24GBs.
Since I want to evolve Native synths and sampling instruments I am convinced that Xeons are the way forward.
Mac friends using slow DDR1333 and Xeons are using 4 year old rigs and large templates.
Have had a great time with fast 16 and 32GB rigs using consumer PC parts.
I'm going to build a 64GB Supermicro with NVMe and C236 Chip w/ ECC DIMMs.

Noticed that my last 3 x PC consumer parts builds are wearing out much faster than my older i7 Bloomdale builds.

Time to use high binned parts.
And they are not much more money than ASRock or Asus.


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## mc_deli (Dec 9, 2015)

milesito said:


> the best set up and most stable is to have many .vi frames and distribute the load. I tried the one single .vi frame and while the tutorial i bought said to do it, it's all wrong. Jay also suggests only loading around 6-9ish instrumenets per .vi frame..not 16.
> 
> hope this helps...
> 
> milesito



Just to check for my own sanity, and maybe other users. Do you mean:
One metaframe with...
Many viframes and...
One (e.g. Kontakt) instance per viframe with 6-9 (Kontakt instruments) patches/midi channels (and not 16)

(the terminology is soooo confusing)


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## milesito (Dec 9, 2015)

mc_deli said:


> Just to check for my own sanity, and maybe other users. Do you mean:
> One metaframe with...
> Many viframes and...
> One (e.g. Kontakt) instance per viframe with 6-9 (Kontakt instruments) patches/midi channels (and not 16)
> ...


Exactly


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## gsilbers (Dec 11, 2015)

Allegro said:


> FWIW, I am currently looking to build a similar system with 5820k and from several sources and forums, it does indeed support 128GB DDR4 just fine according to multiple sources.
> Edit: Just saw a link you posted already.
> 
> If I remember correctly, searching for "128Gb DDR4" ram on YT will also return some results with people trying out 128GB DDR4 on X99 and 5820k which works just fine for them.
> ...





thanks for the info btw. I was going for two sets of 64 but reading above seems that its better to all match to avoid issues. its only $3o more so it works.


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## synthetic (Dec 14, 2015)

chimuelo said:


> Recently went with a half Xeon CPU currently becoming a rare beast.
> I was going to try out the 2011-v3. CPU with the Supermicro C226.
> Ive learned that low level cache and non buffered DIMMs (non ECC) has misses and errors when going above 24GBs.
> Since I want to evolve Native synths and sampling instruments I am convinced that Xeons are the way forward.



Why now one (or two) of the Xeon Greenlows, like e3-1275 v5? Deciding between this and Skylake for my next build. But if I want to build up to 128GB RAM (and I do...), it would probably be a dual Greenlow system.


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## chimuelo (Dec 15, 2015)

UP C236 boards are 64GBs.
Supermicro X11SAT with the 1275 would be a great combo.
Thier M.2 design isn't tied to the 1X slot in case you're using PCI-e 1X audio card.
The ASRock Greenlows don't offer M.2 except on thier mATX design where it's hard wired to the 1X. 

ASRock has a cool Mini ITX Xeon C236 that would be a worthy 64GB Slave for a Kontakt / Omnisphere.


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## synthetic (Dec 18, 2015)

I'm trying to decide between Skylake and Greenlow. It seems that the extra PCI lanes in Skylake would be beneficial for VI performance. Since much of the performance hit is from the processor is bouncing between accessing the disk, RAM, video, network, etc. 

Has anyone seen dual-processor Greenlow motherboards? Those would probably support 128GB between the two processors. I could short load it with one processor and 64GB RAM then upgrade to a second and 128GB in the future.


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## chimuelo (Dec 18, 2015)

Don't think the C236 does that.
But I just sprang for a Supermicro X11SAT from Acme Micro.
It will be my new live rig.
Only need fast M.2 750 NVMe.
Love these fast Z97s but the last 3 rigs I built are going to back up BIOS after 1 year of abuse.
Need longer life cycle designs so Xeon v5 will be partnered with the i7 5775C.
Z97s are all spares now.

Really anxious for AMD to make Intel at least offer something with better cache.


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## synthetic (Dec 18, 2015)

chimuelo said:


> Supermicro X11SAT with the 1275 would be a great combo.



Yeah, that's the way I'm leaning right now. Unless I find a Greenlow mobo that can do dual processors and/or 128GB max RAM. Will wait to buy until after CES and NAMM to see what else I can learn.


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## rgames (Dec 18, 2015)

What are you guys running that requires 128 GB?

I'm on a 32 GB laptop for a year and have found that tweaking pre-load buffers and a bit of purging gets my entire template (VSL/VDS/LASS/EWQL Brass/Cinebrass/Symphobia/Bunch of Perc/Pianos/Harps/etc.) well under 32 GB. SSD speeds (primarily IOPS) have increased so much in the last few years that you can push your pre-loads down to really low levels, thereby significantly reducing RAM requirements. My standard template RAM usage has gone down every year for the last 3-4 years even as I've added more libraries. There's a small trade with latency but it's still well below what you get with live instruments so it's not an issue.

rgames


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## gsilbers (Dec 19, 2015)

rgames said:


> What are you guys running that requires 128 GB?
> 
> I'm on a 32 GB laptop for a year and have found that tweaking pre-load buffers and a bit of purging gets my entire template (VSL/VDS/LASS/EWQL Brass/Cinebrass/Symphobia/Bunch of Perc/Pianos/Harps/etc.) well under 32 GB. SSD speeds (primarily IOPS) have increased so much in the last few years that you can push your pre-loads down to really low levels, thereby significantly reducing RAM requirements. My standard template RAM usage has gone down every year for the last 3-4 years even as I've added more libraries. There's a small trade with latency but it's still well below what you get with live instruments so it's not an issue.
> 
> rgames




for me, it would be a LOT of the "etc" 
but the pre-load buffer thing might be useful.


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## synthetic (Dec 19, 2015)

I'm running some libraries in surround and would like to run more of them. I have 2 PCs slaves now, one with 32GB and one with 16GB (both maxed.) I usually have a few (weird, rarely used) Kontakt libs running on my Mac as well, plus 6 soft synths, plug-ins, etc. I'd love to have one monster PC run everything. And my RAM footprint keeps going up, probably due to Spitfire libraries and all of their groovy mic positions.


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## Lawson. (Dec 20, 2015)

I'm on a 32GB master and 64GB VEP slave, and I could totally use an extra 64GB. For now, I'm experimenting with a modular template so I can load up things on demand (instead of loading it all at once) to save RAM. It's a little more of a hassle, but is easier than trying to make custom templates for everything IMO. And yes, it's all purged.


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