# Staffpad 50% off



## dcoscina

Check it out


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## SupremeFist

I've watched one of the tutorial videos and am now interested since it seems to expect something very close to the way I ordinarily write notation on paper, so maybe it wouldn't require much adjustment for me. (I have a current iPad air.) My question is: is anyone happily using it just with the included sounds, or is buying the extra libraries a must? I don't mean for finals but just for a rich and inspiring sound while writing. I'd be writing full orchestra or string quartet / piano trio kind of stuff. 

Any good videos/demos that show off the built-in sounds to the best effect?


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## MadLad

For chamber music you need additional libraries because there are no solo strings. The stock sound is better than the Finale and Sibelius libraries by far but I'd still consider getting at least one of the strings libraries for Staffpad


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## SupremeFist

MadLad said:


> For chamber music you need additional libraries because there are no solo strings. The stock sound is better than the Finale and Sibelius libraries by far but I'd still consider getting at least one of the strings libraries for Staffpad


Aha good to know, thanks!


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## MadLad

My Portfolio playlist for my VGM music is basically using all of the libraries (except Spitfire, I only have Spitfire Chamber strings) if you want a showcase. I can recommend especially the later pieces because they use everything from CineSamples to Berlin Orchestra, some Spitfire, Ambient One, Antique Keys, Accordion, etc.


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## ism

Any idea what the "additional offers" are?


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## Martin S

ism said:


> Any idea what the "additional offers" are?


I think that refers to the 30% off on add-on libraries (Berlin, Spitfire, Cinesamples, etc.)


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## Bman70

This is great, I missed the last sale which was only 30% off. This looks too good to pass up. But not sure my older iPad will work with it, even though the App Store says "Compatibility: Works on this iPad."


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## mopsiflopsi

I wonder if these sales in short succession might mean they are trying to maximize sales from existing add-ons before they publish new ones. Really curious about the next update.


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## odod

bought it, but i cannot use my non apple pencil, but during the guide i can write all the things .. why??


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## zolhof

odod said:


> bought it, but i cannot use my non apple pencil, but during the guide i can write all the things .. why??


StaffPad for iPad requires Apple Pencil. It's the first thing listed under Compability.









StaffPad® - Make beautiful music


StaffPad is a music notation and composition app designed for handwriting music recognition, touch editing, amazing playback, automatic score layout and realtime parts over WiFi. Available in the App Store for iPad and iPadOS, and the Windows Store for Windows 10.




www.staffpad.net


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## odod

zolhof said:


> StaffPad for iPad requires Apple Pencil. It's the first thing listed under Compability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StaffPad® - Make beautiful music
> 
> 
> StaffPad is a music notation and composition app designed for handwriting music recognition, touch editing, amazing playback, automatic score layout and realtime parts over WiFi. Available in the App Store for iPad and iPadOS, and the Windows Store for Windows 10.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.staffpad.net


well, i guess i will just have to refund then :( because i can do the tutorial but not writing on the staff


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## thesteelydane

odod said:


> well, i guess i will just have to refund then :( because i can do the tutorial but not writing on the staff


Honestly, I would recommend getting the pencil instead, if your iPad supports it of course. Yes, it's expensive, but it is soooo good!


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## mopsiflopsi

thesteelydane said:


> Honestly, I would recommend getting the pencil instead, if your iPad supports it of course. Yes, it's expensive, but it is soooo good!


Speaking of the pencil, do you find it randomly switches to eraser mode sometimes without the double tap? It happens to me every now and then when I want to move a note I end up deleting it.


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## odod

thesteelydane said:


> Honestly, I would recommend getting the pencil instead, if your iPad supports it of course. Yes, it's expensive, but it is soooo good!


i have ipad 7th gen, does it support the apple pencil?


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## thesteelydane

mopsiflopsi said:


> Speaking of the pencil, do you find it randomly switches to eraser mode sometimes without the double tap? It happens to me every now and then when I want to move a note I end up deleting it.


No I have a 1st gen iPad Pro and pencil, so not a problem I possibly encounter. I'm looking forward to upgrading though...


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## DSorah

Thanks for the heads-up. I just picked this up. Learning how to navigate the app now. I had been using Symphony Pro, but hope this is much better.


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## gamma-ut

*EDIT: See post from 4th September on the next page - either the training mode is more stringent than regular operation or I jumped the gun.*

It really doesn’t make any concessions for left-handers does it? Right down to only accepting counter-clockwise when drawing a half or full note head.


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## MadLad

I'm left-handed and so far I never encountered any problems because of that. Just the regular small bugs and glitches.


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## gamma-ut

I didn't describe it as a problem: it's an adjustment. It's just a bit weird having an app designed in such a way that it will only accept gestures entered in a highly particular way that happens to be, in general, natural for left-handers. Particularly when the sales schtick is "usability".

The tendency in hand movements is to sweep in from the top (imagine polishing a window or car). Left-handers, in general, tend to sweep clockwise when writing an "O", right handers do it the other way. What this tends to mean is that written Os have different shapes: a left-handing will probably be fully closed, many of those of right handers will be slightly open at the top in cursive writing. I'm sure there are exceptions but this is the general case.

The software insists the half and full note heads are constructed using a counter-clockwise gesture which is far from impossible to do left handed but it took several attempts to work out that the software is really fussy about writing direction. This also seems to affect "mp" and "p" because it insists on a certain combination of down and upstrokes that I don't tend to use in handwriting as, because of the whole left=clockwise thing, I do in one hit.

I've seen similar comments around the interwebs so I don't think it's just me. That they haven't dealt with it by adding in handwriting templates to their software smacks of a CTO or VP engineering saying "this isn't a problem, 'cos that's how I write stuff".


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## Jett Hitt

gamma-ut said:


> I've seen similar comments around the interwebs so I don't think it's just me. That they haven't dealt with it by adding in handwriting templates to their software smacks of a CTO of VICE engineering saying "this isn't a problem, 'cos that's how I write stuff".


I think that there is a lot of that going on. There has been great resistance to any form of note entry other than the pencil. Mind you, this wouldn't bother me if the handwriting recognition worked better, but that facet of things never seems to improve much. I had to resign myself to the way DWH thinks things should be done because he is not going to change. Note entry is cumbersome at best. I can enter notes far more quickly into Finale, and when things get complicated, I do just that and then export to XML. Ultimately, you have to decide whether the cumbersome process is worth the end product. I am a pen and paper guy, and nothing else even comes close to recreating that experience. There was a time, many years ago, when I had to adapt to thinking like Finale. It is the same with StaffPad. You just wish that they could survey the various approaches over the years and synthesize those into a more workable whole. But I am pretty sure that isn't going to happen.


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## SupremeFist

My heart sank when I read this because I, a left-hander, had just bought Staffpad. But from my first 10 minutes with it it seems to happily accept minim heads drawn clockwise as long as you overshoot a bit? The showstopper for me though is that it seems to really want ledger lines to be drawn left to right, and this left-hander draws them right to left. Am seriously thinking of requesting a refund via Apple (anyone ever successfully done that?).


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## gamma-ut

SupremeFist said:


> My heart sank when I read this because I, a left-hander, had just bought Staffpad. But from my first 10 minutes with it it seems to happily accept minim heads drawn clockwise as long as you overshoot a bit? The showstopper for me though is that it seems to really want ledger lines to be drawn left to right, and this left-hander draws them right to left. Am seriously thinking of requesting a refund via Apple (anyone ever successfully done that?).


I'll give that a try. I wasn't getting any success with my normal strokes but at the same time it wasn't a major chore doing it the "approved" way once I worked out what was going on.

That ledger line thing is a bit of a pain as my aim ain't so good in their preferred direction.


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## Jett Hitt

SupremeFist said:


> My heart sank when I read this because I, a left-hander, had just bought Staffpad. But from my first 10 minutes with it it seems to happily accept minim heads drawn clockwise as long as you overshoot a bit? The showstopper for me though is that it seems to really want ledger lines to be drawn left to right, and this left-hander draws them right to left. Am seriously thinking of requesting a refund via Apple (anyone ever successfully done that?).


I have never had much luck getting refunds.



gamma-ut said:


> That ledger line thing is a bit of a pain as my aim ain't so good in their preferred direction.


I seldom ever draw ledger lines. Just draw the value you want in the staff and drag it to the desired pitch.


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## SupremeFist

Jett Hitt said:


> I seldom ever draw ledger lines. Just draw the value you want in the staff and drag it to the desired pitch.


Seems like a clunky workaround since I'd have to tap on another bar and then go back and move the note?


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## gamma-ut

This is where one gets into the tradeoff between something like StaffPad and a more traditional app where you drag stuff from a part box. At some point the point of better usability crosses over. I was torn between this and Dorico but jumped on the sale when it turned up and just treat it as a sunk cost if it doesn't work out. But I do find the part-box approach quite clunky most of the time so StaffPad may well win.


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## Bman70

I found it easy to get a refund from the App Store, although I can't remember right now what app I returned a few years ago. But it seemed like a simple process.


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## SupremeFist

I feel like ignoring the way 10-12% of your potential customers actually write is a pretty serious failing in an app that is predicated on good handwriting recognition.


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## MadLad

I just tried around a bit. It seems to make no difference from which direction I draw the ledger line. The same goes for noteheads. If I draw them clockwise or counter-clockwise it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Granted, I've been working with the app for a long time now, so maybe I'm just used to it. I also zoom in on staffs quite a lot if I have to write something. It helps the recognition. You really have to be precise sometimes. Ledger lines need to be as horizontal as possible but I think you get used to it. Getting a refund might actually be too soon. I remember having trouble in the beginning, too. But now I almost have no problems or at least always a work-around if something isn't working.

Also: It's no engraving software. It's not Finale. It's a composition tool. With the additional libraries, I can skip most of the work in Reaper and right now I'm actually composing a whole soundtrack for a client just in Staffpad with a few DAW tweaks after I finished the pieces.


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## Martin S

mopsiflopsi said:


> Speaking of the pencil, do you find it randomly switches to eraser mode sometimes without the double tap? It happens to me every now and then when I want to move a note I end up deleting it.


Yup, I experience that, too. Even if I have double tapping set to ‘off’ in iOS settings, StaffPad still occasionally switches to eraser mode. If I deliberately double tap, the eraser is switched on consistently; also with iOS settings set to ‘off’. A wee bit annoying…


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## Gabriel2013

MadLad said:


> Also: It's no engraving software. It's not Finale. It's a composition tool. With the additional libraries, I can skip most of the work in Reaper and right now I'm actually composing a whole soundtrack for a client just in Staffpad with a few DAW tweaks after I finished the pieces.


This is exactly what I want to do, just wish they have some Time Code implementation to make the whole process much easier.

g


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## MadLad

Gabriel2013 said:


> This is exactly what I want to do, just wish they have some Time Code implementation to make the whole process much easier.
> 
> g


Haha I know what you mean. I have a stopwatch app open at all times just to find out the length of the piece or parts of the piece. I still don't understand why they wouldn't add something as simple as that


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## Cass Hansen

SupremeFist said:


> My heart sank when I read this because I, a left-hander, had just bought Staffpad. But from my first 10 minutes with it it seems to happily accept minim heads drawn clockwise as long as you overshoot a bit? The showstopper for me though is that it seems to really want ledger lines to be drawn left to right, and this left-hander draws them right to left. Am seriously thinking of requesting a refund via Apple (anyone ever successfully done that?).


I write very quickly in staffpad with no problems, primarily because I use a lot of shortcuts.

I never use ledger lines. Just put the note above or below the staff where you think the correct position should be and enter and viola the ledger lines are all there. If you miss by a bit, just drag the note up or down with the pen. After you've done this awhile, it's amazing how fast and accurately you can input notes, even with ledger lines. I do the same with dynamics. If you can draw _P_ with no problems but can't get a good _f_ no matter what you do, just draw _p's_ and drag with pen up/down to get _f mf ppp_, whatever. Hope this helps.
Cass


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## gamma-ut

I need to recant some of my criticisms of Staffpad for a left-hander: using it today to try different things out, it seems a lot more tolerant than I was giving it credit for earlier. I think the tutorial mode is a lot more stringent or I was failing to get the gestures right for different reasons to the ones that seemed to be the case. Dynamics (eg mp) are still a bit tricky in places: I seem to have to adjust to the direction of strokes indicated in the training mode, but note heads are more flexible than I'd claimed earlier - at least for me.


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## SupremeFist

I gave it some more time but it just wasn't working for me — much worse than Notion's handwriting, which is pretty great by now. Just got my refund from Apple. Shame, maybe I'll revisit it in the future as I know many people here do great things with it!


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## Kalli

MadLad said:


> Haha I know what you mean. I have a stopwatch app open at all times just to find out the length of the piece or parts of the piece. I still don't understand why they wouldn't add something as simple as that


Actually, integration with audio/video tracks is in the works, so precise timing should be solved by the time those function are launched. The audio integration is expected to drop during the fall.


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## Gabriel2013

Kalli said:


> Actually, integration with audio/video tracks is in the works, so precise timing should be solved by the time those function are launched. The audio integration is expected to drop during the fall.


I knew about the audio track implementation, but video tracks is a nice suprise.
This is the first time I hear about it. Hope you are right.

g


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## Montisquirrel

Kalli said:


> Actually, integration with audio/video tracks is in the works, so precise timing should be solved by the time those function are launched. The audio integration is expected to drop during the fall.


Are you sure about the video integration?


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## Kalli

Gabriel2013 said:


> I knew about the audio track implementation, but video tracks is a nice suprise.
> This is the first time I hear about it. Hope you are right.
> 
> g





Montisquirrel said:


> Are you sure about the video integration?


Don’t quote me on the video integration. But creator David William Hearn has indicated that video integration is a long-term goal. If and when that will happen is, of course, very uncertain. All we know with near certainty is the audio integration in the upcoming update.


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## Pseudonym

Yes, there were a few items in the built-in note entry tutorial that would *never* work, regardless of what I did or how many times I repeated the process. Fortunately, that kind of recalcitrance is rarely encountered in my actual use of the app. I do agree with Cass Hansen in that there are certain workarounds that seem to be necessary for many people, including myself.


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## muratkayi

I am not sure about this, but the way I always understood it is that Staffpad is trying to learn how you enter notes, too. So, apart from the user trying to learn note entry, Staffpad is trying to understand better what you are trying to achieve. That's how I understood the video material I watched (lots of those).

Bottom line: judge the handwritten note entry after you have been thoroughly using it for let's say two or three weeks. Things lighten up after that or at least that was my experience


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## muratkayi

As concerns the discounts on 3d party libraries - I can't find any. I have bought several libraries already over the course of the last year, but I can't imagine that by some wild coincidence only the ones I already own are discounted. 

I still see the regular price of 99€ on the big section libraries. Can anyone point out a few libraries which are discounted?


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## MisteR

They were all discounted on my store (US) Well, at least all the ones I didn’t own, including Spitfire and OT. Maybe double check you have the latest version.


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## muratkayi

Latest version of what? Staffpad? Staffpad says it's on version 3.4.12, but I thought it updates itself if necessary. Also, in the store I have it all set to install updates (to installed libraries) automatically. I just searched staffpad website and the microsoft store and could not find the version number of the latest version or any release log.


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## MisteR

Okay then. That’s worked for some in the past. You might uninstall and reinstall. I think that’s also worked for some. I’m out of ideas apart from contacting the developer. I checked and the sale is still up. Good luck.


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## muratkayi

Yeah, I wrote to support. Thanks for your replies, though!

EDIT: OK, without me doing anything, it now changed. The section prices are not at 69,99. That is the discount you also see, right?


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## jonathanparham

muratkayi said:


> As concerns the discounts on 3d party libraries - I can't find any. I have bought several libraries already over the course of the last year, but I can't imagine that by some wild coincidence only the ones I already own are discounted.
> 
> I still see the regular price of 99€ on the big section libraries. Can anyone point out a few libraries which are discounted?


I'm on windows and the larger ones were $70 as opposed to $100.


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## rsg22

muratkayi said:


> I am not sure about this, but the way I always understood it is that Staffpad is trying to learn how you enter notes, too. So, apart from the user trying to learn note entry, Staffpad is trying to understand better what you are trying to achieve. That's how I understood the video material I watched (lots of those).
> 
> Bottom line: judge the handwritten note entry after you have been thoroughly using it for let's say two or three weeks. Things lighten up after that or at least that was my experience


There was some speculation about this early on (when the iOS version first came out) - but I believe it's been confirmed that Staffpad does not employ any machine learning on the user's handwriting. It's up to the user to adapt to what Staffpad/David Hearn expects, not the other way around. Unfortunately.


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## MisteR

muratkayi said:


> Yeah, I wrote to support. Thanks for your replies, though!
> 
> EDIT: OK, without me doing anything, it now changed. The section prices are not at 69,99. That is the discount you also see, right?


Yes. 69.99


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## mopsiflopsi

The store can be slow to update prices. Closing the app and starting again forces it to refresh I think.


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## muratkayi

Thanks for the confirmation folks!


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## Kanter

rsg22 said:


> There was some speculation about this early on (when the iOS version first came out) - but I believe it's been confirmed that Staffpad does not employ any machine learning on the user's handwriting. It's up to the user to adapt to what Staffpad/David Hearn expects, not the other way around. Unfortunately.


yes, the app that claims to adapt to user handwriting over time is NotateMe


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