# Suggestion for Composition Review section



## Guy Bacos (Oct 29, 2010)

I would like to make a suggestion to the forum administration about broadening the _composition review_ section.

I've noticed there are 2 types of posting: People posting finished pieces and others posting short excerpts in view of testing it to the public and improving it thanks to tips people generously give.

It seems to me a practical idea and people would have a more dedicated thread to their specific need.

Composition Review could be divided into:

A-_Finished pieces _

B-_General Excerpts looking feedback_

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this.


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## michaelv (Oct 29, 2010)

This makes good sense to me, Guy. I feel that, perhap,s too many threads in that section become "bogged down" with distracting posts,concerning what sample library did this trill and why you should use a spectrum analyser on this piece, or: it needs high cut in the middle section, but use SD2 instead of Battery. And so on. Sometimes compositions are not even discussed at all, in favour of all this other stuff, which deserves an entirely special category.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Oct 29, 2010)

Relevent idea, but in general I'd say simpler is better, especially with creating sub-categories of forum topics.
I hear what you're saying, but readers usually are decerning enough to know what kind of work they want to listen to, i.e. a Guy Bacos piece if they want to hear a finished and musical piece...


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## Mike Greene (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm with Patrick in that I think simpler is better. IMHO the forum doesn't need more subsections.

As far as which kind of piece is being presented (in progress or finished,) I always assume it's finished, unless the post starts with a few sentences to the contrary.


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## Guy Bacos (Oct 29, 2010)

Say you have 4 or 8 bars and you want to test it out, this happens quite often. This would also encourage people to post a few bars without any pressure, since this is what this thread would be all about. I understand the simpler the better but when the need starts to grow maybe better do something about it.


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 29, 2010)

Not too fussed either way here, but Guy made a good point in his last - when looking for some quick feedback to address a specific issue, perhaps people might feel freer to do this if they're not "competing" with Mr Bacos et al! Personally it wouldn't (and hasn't) held me back though.


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## gsilbers (Oct 29, 2010)

while we are suggesting things, i suggest a better way to playback the audio w/o having to go to another link/page. 

easier embedding. im not sure the tech of it i just know its easier on gearslutz. 

just sayin' 
:mrgreen:


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## michaelv (Oct 29, 2010)

Mike Greene @ Fri Oct 29 said:


> I'm with Patrick in that I think simpler is better. IMHO the forum doesn't need more subsections.
> 
> As far as which kind of piece is being presented (in progress or finished,) I always assume it's finished, unless the post starts with a few sentences to the contrary.



Simpler? Lol, this isn't brain surgery. A couple of mouse clicks and you're there. I feel it's an entirely appropriate thing to do. 

You'll have to bear with the English sarcasm, Mike. :wink: Just my opinion.....


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## lux (Oct 30, 2010)

i think the idea makes sense. Mostly because in a "released tracks" subforum the type of feedback could be a bit more artistical than technical, which i feel it lacks a bit here.


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## Guy Bacos (Oct 30, 2010)

This is a very popular section of the forum, one of the busiest according to the views and posts, so it's normal to have one subdivision. And this should not be badly interpreted. Many people will post short excepts and will depend on tips to improve their piece, this is fine, but often this goes on for 40-60 posts. When you have 5 threads like that, any new complete pieces or threads such as Michael Vickerage website post, should not wind up at the bottom of the page after a few days, as it happened in its original posting many months ago, and went completely unnoticed, until someone dug it out from far down, and now very popular and appreciated. No doubt, some will say this is sour grapes, it's not, and I'm not the only one thinking this.

I ask the administration, John, Frederick, Patrick etc. what would be the harm in doing a trial period? If it turns out a bad idea, just go back to how it was, but I think it will be welcomed.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Oct 30, 2010)

Just for the record Guy, I am not part of the administration of VI-Control.
Just a guy that volunteered to help... (when schedule allows)

Frederick is the one that makes the ultimate decisions


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## synergy543 (Oct 30, 2010)

Guy Bacos @ Fri Oct 29 said:


> Say you have 4 or 8 bars and you want to test it out, this happens quite often. This would also encourage people to post a few bars without any pressure, since this is what this thread would be all about.


I think this might be a good suggestion, and even prove to be popular, as it would allow people to post with WIP and questions without intimidation of being in direct competition with the completed pieces in the Big Pond.

And as people improve, they'll become Big Fish in the little pond, and maybe feel like moving up to the Big Fish pond where they can subject themselves to merciless slaughter like a Japanese whale. :roll:


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## RiffWraith (Oct 30, 2010)

I like the idea, as long as it's done with two subforums, ala GSlutz. 

Cheers.


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 31, 2010)

Just a thought... I can forsee an awkward grey area. What about someone's finished piece that they want feedback on? Not someone as experienced as yourself, Guy, but also not someone who is trying something new on a short section either...

Perhaps the dividing line is choosing to label your cue as either a "work in progress" or a "completed composition". If you've finished something and it sounds good to you / your mates, I guess it's up to you what you do with it... a WIP would mean you'll get criticism (hopefully constructive) whereas a completed one would be, I guess for people to say "wow that sounds brilliant" or keep schtum. Is this the right kind of dividing line? Alternatively, how about "feedback requested" versus "completed compositions"? The more I think about it, the more I realise this is quite a tricky area.


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## Guy Bacos (Oct 31, 2010)

In both cases you'd want feedback, of course. I like "work in progress" or a "completed composition". 

It's like when you go to the bank, well my bank has counters for normal transaction and a separate one for commercial transaction.

I'm hoping Frederick will chime in, and *more people* will give their opinions.


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## George Caplan (Oct 31, 2010)

i certainly like the idea of excerpts because the thought of trying to do a complete thing here is just too frightening for words for someone like me just getting started with samples.


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## Colin O'Malley (Oct 31, 2010)

I can't remember specifics, but a few years ago Frederick had the sample libraries discussion area split up in sub forums. If memory serves it was something like "sample library" and "synths" as separate forums. It didn't work out because it seemed one sub forum got all the views while the other was neglected. I think the same may happen with Guy's suggestion. Maybe it would be simpler to establish some suggested guidelines for people to follow when posting threads ("FINISHED PIECE - HS Demo or WORK IN PROGRESS - Trailer Cue). 

Colin


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## Guy Bacos (Oct 31, 2010)

I realize it's not that simple, I thought maybe by putting our heads together there could be one suggestion that might stand out.


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## Guy Bacos (Oct 31, 2010)

If we look at the last 6 threads in the _composition review_, 3 of the last 6 threads (the ones highlighted in yellow) could easily be in a different section where they could have the freedom of experimenting.


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## Frederick Russ (Oct 31, 2010)

Hi Guy,

Its a great idea. Not trying to negate your idea but we've tried this before. Colin nailed it: one forum tends to get all the views and the other is neglected almost completely. Another problem is navigation clutter - since we have more than enough forum divisions, another forum addition would have to essentially earn its keep instead of being dead weight. 

Perhaps more will chime in so we can vote - but my feeling is that even if we did put up another forum, in practice may be something else entirely. I'm open to new ideas though.


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## Guy Bacos (Oct 31, 2010)

I hardly see any threads involving synthesizers, at least not since I joined, But the kind of division I'm bringing up is very current and you could see it every day.


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## germancomponist (Oct 31, 2010)

Frederick Russ @ Sun Oct 31 said:


> Hi Guy,
> 
> Its a great idea. Not trying to negate your idea but we've tried this before. Colin nailed it: one forum tends to get all the views and the other is neglected almost completely. Another problem is navigation clutter - since we have more than enough forum divisions, another forum addition would have to essentially earn its keep instead of being dead weight.
> 
> Perhaps more will chime in so we can vote - but my feeling is that even if we did put up another forum, in practice may be something else entirely. I'm open to new ideas though.



Whenever I visit the Sanctus Cafe' and listen to a piece I ask to myself three questions:

1. How do I like the composition
2. How do I like the arrangement
3. How do I like the sound / mixing

Maybe we ca do a poll about these questions in any thread here...., but sure, not easy to handle.

Otherwise, I like it as it is. o-[][]-o


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## Mike Greene (Oct 31, 2010)

In a _"Wouldn't it be nice"_ sense, I could see the appeal of two sub-forums. Heck, it would also be tempting to subdivide "Sample Talk" into "Orchestral" and "Non-Orchestral" sub-forums. And then subdivide _those_ into "Existing Libraries" and "Yet-to-be-released Libraries" sub-forums. And then a separate sub-forum that's for threads that aren't about any one library in particular.

But forum clutter really is a bigger deal than you might think. I venture to guess that most visitors only visit a handful (or one) of the forums here. That's why in the example Colin gave, one of the subdivided forums got all the action and the other got none.

In this particular case, I have to wonder if there is really a _need_ for two sub-forums. I imagine most people who are in the mood to listen to completed compositions would also be in the mood to listen to in-progress compositions. And vice versa. Seriously, I'm trying to picture the guy thinking to himself, "By golly, I want to hear some 8 bar sketches, but *only* sketches. I sure as heck don't want to hear any completed compositions. Just sketches for me today!"

Even if that guys does exist, then simply starting a thread with, _"Here's an 8-bar sketch . . . "_ would be a good way of letting him know that here's is an 8-bar sketch. Or if it's a complete piece you want to show off, maybe start with _"Here's a piece I finished . . . "_ This works especially well since the forum software has this handy feature where when you mouse over a thread title, it gives you the first couple sentences, so the reader would see that very setup. Honestly, I'm not trying to be sarcastic here (okay, maybe a _little_ sarcastic,) but it does seem really easy to accomplish the same goals in the forum setup we already have.


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## choc0thrax (Oct 31, 2010)

Guys, guy is right. Things move at blazing speed in that review forum and quite frankly it's just dangerous and irresponsible. I've started carrying a switchblade in my sock everytime I gotta go in there.

It's also a pain in the ass, if I want to find a thread from a few months ago I got to take my hand and move my entire freakin mouse and stuff and click like to the 4th page or something. Now if it were split in two forums all I'd have to do is figure out which forum that thread was in that I wanted to check and instead of going allll the way to page 4 I could probably just find it on page 2 cause the sub forum would be roughly half as busy.

So if you like going an extra 2 pages for nothing then go ahead and don't change anything. Don't come crying to us when someones unheard Jazz flute ensemble piece ends up bum[ped from the first page after only 3 weeks.


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## Guy Bacos (Oct 31, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Sun Oct 31 said:


> I've started carrying a switchblade in my sock everytime I gotta go in there.



LOL Catching on!

It would be nice to have a page where you could view 40 threads of compete pieces instead of scrolling and searching endlessly. Pieces like Project Noah by Sherief, Mike Verta's sketches, The drive by Michael Vickerage, Misgiving by Rob, Blackpond tale by Pietro etc and if we go further back you have great pieces such as Balletica by Gary Eskow or Wayward March by Alex Temple or A Little Bit of Sweetening by Rohan. They get lost, forgotten. These pieces should be kept like in a library where people could easily access them. And maybe 1 or 2 of my own? :? Because the only members who got a chance to view and comment these threads where the ones visiting the forum at the time of their presentation, but if you missed it, too late! You'll never know about it, if you are a new member you'll never know about it, it's gone in a mishmash of pieces and experiments. With a section of its own, any of these piece could easily resurface months or years later.

One more thing. The other day I said to a fellow musician friend, why don't you join the forum? She said, "I don't think they would think that I'd have much validity." Well this section would be entertaining enough for any people to post simple comments.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2010)

I thought I made some interesting points, but the hell with it, let this thread rot!


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## rabiang (Nov 2, 2010)

For me, a sticky of the best threads would be great! not sure about the other ideas. i like the idea of different ppl composing different styles commenting on each others works. it CAN create some great threads, and i have read some like that. segregation could mean the disappearance of this. The ideal for me is when a classically trained tuba player can comment on a rock cue with an insight only possible by this meeting. but if a segregation is possible where this meeting can still take place, e.g. based on time (lets say 30 sec pieces and shorter and over 30 sec), it could work.


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 2, 2010)

The problem I can see about a "best thread idea" is it would create jealousy type problems, if you see what I mean. The suggestion I'm making is based on a *rule*. 

But finding problems in suggested solution is always easier than suggesting solutions.


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## Jaap (Nov 2, 2010)

I like the idea Guy presented. Two sections for the music would be great. Also for visitors who visit now and then or only parts of the forum. Personally it would only make it more organised for myself and you can visit the section of your liking (maybe one day you want to browse through completed pieces and the other day just through sketches). For me the composition review part is too cluttered to be honest and not very appealing so I can see some benefit in the things Guy suggested.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Nov 2, 2010)

Careful............ he honored your request!


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## Allegra (Nov 2, 2010)

I'm new to the forum, and come with fresh eyes and ears. Guy's suggestion of "separation of church and state"..."wheat from chaff"... "WIP from Completed Pieces" makes perfect sense to me.
It certainly will benefit me as a newcomer to be able to navigate around the forum with more ease to seek out exactly what I want to view/listen to.

Happy for the two week trial! o-[][]-o


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## synergy543 (Nov 2, 2010)

Look forward to hearing your work (or WIP) Allegra*. Makes sense to me too and I too may use it in the future although probably not in the next two weeks so I hope it sticks around.

*btw, curious name...fresh eyes and ears Allegra makes?


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## hbuus (Nov 3, 2010)

Can we change the name of unfinished pieces to Member Compositions - WIP?
Easier to read out on the new posts page, that's why.
We'll see how this goes.
It might be a good idea.

Best,
Henrik


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## Guy Bacos (Nov 3, 2010)

The description beneath the headline is quite clear, however I agree that *General Excerpts* might lead to some confusion, I think Hannes wasn't clear on it either.


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## Christian Marcussen (Nov 3, 2010)

Member Compositions - Work in Progress seems both precise and telling.


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