# Thunderbolt 4 hubs



## samplin (Jul 24, 2021)

Hi looking for recommendations... I want a thunderbolt 4 hub so I can use all of my ssds with my growing libraries.
The owc and caldigit are out of stock for at least a month.. does anyone have experience with another model?

I’m using a 2017 iMac with 2 thunderbolt ports.

Thank!


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## PhilA (Jul 24, 2021)

Sorry I don’t all I can say is the OWC one is excellent and with the money/wait (it was in stock in the UK)






New USB-C Hubs experience.


(I originally posted this in the wrong forum by mistake) I’ve always found myself with to much clutter and wanting an actual usb-c dock with multiple ports (usb-c type not legacy ports) At last they are available (if you can find stock, I did in the UK)...




vi-control.net


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## samplin (Jul 24, 2021)

PhilA said:


> Sorry I don’t all I can say is the OWC one is excellent and with the money/wait (it was in stock in the UK)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, I figured... Ill check the uk as Im here right now....


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## PhilA (Jul 24, 2021)

I got mine from these guys and they still have stock. It came next day no problems. It will have auk power adapter but I’m sure that’s easily sorted.






OWC Thunderbolt 4 Hub Docking Station (6 Ports) | Megamac


More Ports For A World of Possibilities For the first time ever, the OWC Thunderbolt Hub lets you consolidate and simplify the connectivity between all your devices with all the Thunderbolt ports you’ve always wanted. The OWC Thunderbolt Hub’s four Thunderbolt (USB-C) ports and one USB port...




www.megamac.com


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## samplin (Jul 24, 2021)

PhilA said:


> I got mine from these guys and they still have stock. It came next day no problems. It will have auk power adapter but I’m sure that’s easily sorted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, I bought the 11 port version so I should be covered for now


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## fraz (Jul 24, 2021)

samplin said:


> Hi looking for recommendations... I want a thunderbolt 4 hub so I can use all of my ssds with my growing libraries.
> The owc and caldigit are out of stock for at least a month.. does anyone have experience with another model?
> 
> I’m using a 2017 iMac with 2 thunderbolt ports.
> ...


Hello, I see you are asking about thunderbolt 4 hubs - I've just been looking at these as well for Mac - But they do work on Windows.

You may be a big time pro or just an "enthusiast" like lots of us here - but either way it is difficult to find the right products when needed.

Are you in the UK? - or the US? - or somewhere else? - You don't need to tell me but it may have a bearing on availability and supply.

From my basic understanding the best two thunderbolt 3 & thunderbolt 4 hubs are "Anker" & Cal-Digit.

The OWC version looks good as well and similar to the Anker one!

I too would like a Cal-Digit thunderbolt 4 Element Hub but they come back in stock in August in the UK. Anker is the next best thing and I have one right now attached to a Mac Mini.

These work on Windows as well as Macs.

I have a hot tip for you - Please buy yourself a USB fan or two "Arctic" - And find a way to cool your hubs & mac mini or what ever, especially a Samsung T7 SSD - I got one & it throttled but once there was some good style OC'ing Windows style cooling the drive did not throttle anymore under a constant cycling read-write on "Black Magic Design Speed Test" for read and write.

Please ignore if you wish - Good luck!


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## Nimrod7 (Jul 24, 2021)

I am trying to get my hands on the Element Hub by CalDigit. I own their T3 Docks and they are great.





Thunderbolt 4 | USB4 | Element Hub | CalDigit – CalDigit







www.caldigit.com


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## rnb_2 (Jul 24, 2021)

I have both the 14-port OWC Thunderbolt 3 dock and the CalDigit Element - they're both excellent. If you don't need the extra ports on the OWC dock (Ethernet, headphone, SD/microSD card slots), the CalDigit Element is hard to beat for the price, if they could only keep them in stock...


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## fraz (Jul 24, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> I have both the 14-port OWC Thunderbolt 3 dock and the CalDigit Element - they're both excellent. If you don't need the extra ports on the OWC dock (Ethernet, headphone, SD/microSD card slots), the CalDigit Element is hard to beat for the price, if they could only keep them in stock...


There must be a supply problem because Anker is available in large numbers !


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## rnb_2 (Jul 24, 2021)

The Element Hub is relatively new - I think it just started shipping this spring. I ordered mine in late February, received it in early May. I also paid a LOT less than they're charging now ($139 vs $229) - I suspect they're trying to manage demand and increase profits in one go. If the Anker has the combination of ports you need, it should do fine for you - Anker is a respected company.

The nice thing about the Element Hub is that, as a Thunderbolt 4 device, it actually splits one Thunderbolt 3 port into 3 full-speed ports; a Thunderbolt 3 hub can't do that (TB3 can only daisy chain). It's also very small, though its power supply is a fair bit larger than the hub itself. For my M1 Mac mini, I just needed a couple more USB-A ports and some more Thunderbolt/USB-C ports, so the Element worked perfectly, especially for the price I got it for.


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## Nimrod7 (Jul 24, 2021)

fraz said:


> There must be a supply problem because Anker is available in large numbers !


The element hub has supply problems. I was talking to Caldigit about that. It will be available widespread 2022. 
For now only through their online stores in UK - US which they have stock in batches. There are customs on top of the price for the rest of the world. 

Might go for the OWC one instead... seems to be easier to get.


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## fraz (Jul 25, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> The Element Hub is relatively new - I think it just started shipping this spring. I ordered mine in late February, received it in early May. I also paid a LOT less than they're charging now ($139 vs $229) - I suspect they're trying to manage demand and increase profits in one go. If the Anker has the combination of ports you need, it should do fine for you - Anker is a respected company.
> 
> The nice thing about the Element Hub is that, as a Thunderbolt 4 device, it actually splits one Thunderbolt 3 port into 3 full-speed ports; a Thunderbolt 3 hub can't do that (TB3 can only daisy chain). It's also very small, though its power supply is a fair bit larger than the hub itself. For my M1 Mac mini, I just needed a couple more USB-A ports and some more Thunderbolt/USB-C ports, so the Element worked perfectly, especially for the price I got it for.


Hi,

Of course you are correct about the Anker thunderbolt 3 hub - but there is also an Anker thunderbolt 4 hub which is very much the same as the Element 4 - But the Element 4 has 4 USB type-A ports where as the Anker thunderbolt 4 dock only has 1 !

I've put in the pics to show it - and I have one of these in lieu of the Cal-Digit.

As I've never used one of these before they do get hot - So there is a USB fan "quite small" cooling the Mac Mini & the docks - And if needed the Samsung T7 SSD - as it throttled too easily - You can tell I did some OC'ing as I'm cautious of high temps = Something that is a given on a Mac! - - But this gained 10% performance on the 8700 B ! (approx).

Geek Bench 5 score of 6100 (instead of the average of 5500)_approx.


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## Utkarsh (Aug 29, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> The Element Hub is relatively new - I think it just started shipping this spring. I ordered mine in late February, received it in early May. I also paid a LOT less than they're charging now ($139 vs $229) - I suspect they're trying to manage demand and increase profits in one go. If the Anker has the combination of ports you need, it should do fine for you - Anker is a respected company.
> 
> The nice thing about the Element Hub is that, as a Thunderbolt 4 device, it actually splits one Thunderbolt 3 port into 3 full-speed ports; a Thunderbolt 3 hub can't do that (TB3 can only daisy chain). It's also very small, though its power supply is a fair bit larger than the hub itself. For my M1 Mac mini, I just needed a couple more USB-A ports and some more Thunderbolt/USB-C ports, so the Element worked perfectly, especially for the price I got it for.


$139! Wow! Writing from India. OWC t4 hubs aren’t available here. CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 element Hub is available, and can you guess the price? "$367" (its 27k ₹. I just converted to USD.)
and the kicker is… this still seems like the best option I have here (since other options from Dell and Belkin are nowhere close 😕). So I still may end up buying it. well played CalDigit… well played 🙈


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## rnb_2 (Aug 29, 2021)

Utkarsh said:


> $139! Wow! Writing from India. OWC t4 hubs aren’t available here. CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 element Hub is available, and can you guess the price? "$367" (its 27k ₹. I just converted to USD.)
> and the kicker is… this still seems like the best option I have here (since other options from Dell and Belkin are nowhere close 😕). So I still may end up buying it. well played CalDigit… well played 🙈


Ouch! I think I got in toward the end of their crowdfunding stage - thus the low initial price - but sorry to see that it is so expensive for you. I can vouch for the quality of the Element Hub, though - I have had zero issues with it in the months I've had it.


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## jcrosby (Aug 29, 2021)

The prices and availability are a reflection of 'chip shortages'. Prices on all kinds of electronics you might not think would be affected (but absolutely are) have been like a see-saw for a little while now. I recently tried to order an aftermarket Kenwood stereo for my car and it took me 3+ weeks just to find one in stock anywhere, and I paid through the nose.... (A good $100+ over the actual retail price)... Everyone, including retailers are getting squeezed...

Caldigit states as much on their page... (Not about prices per se, but a look at their updates shows how quickly things can be stocked and wiped out within the same week...) The cost of many things, (things I didn't expect to be impacted) are unfortunately climbing... 






An Update on Element Hub Availability – CalDigit







www.caldigit.com














Covid-19 Surge in Malaysia Threatens to Prolong Global Chip Shortage


The country in Southeast Asia is cited as auto makers cut production, highlighting a little-known but critical link in the semiconductor supply chain.




www.wsj.com






(I'd imagine many are well aware.... I certainly didn't realize just how sweeping the shortages actually were until I went to hunt down a car stereo of all things...  The next year at least, (2023 being more likely) the electronics market is predicted to be in somewhat chaotic flux in terms of both availability and pricing... )


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## Utkarsh (Aug 29, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> Ouch! I think I got in toward the end of their crowdfunding stage - thus the low initial price - but sorry to see that it is so expensive for you. I can vouch for the quality of the Element Hub, though - I have had zero issues with it in the months I've had it.


Thank you for vouching for it. ❤️
Ok then! I’m pulling the trigger! 
(while my wallet gently weeps 🤪😂)


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## SupremeFist (Sep 4, 2021)

I managed to get a Caldigit Element a month ago, so now a single thunderbolt port on my Mac Mini has 3 sample SSDs, a backup HDD, a 10-port USB hub, and a 4k monitor running off it. Experience so far: utterly boring, which is to say it all just works smoothly. Infrastructure spend is never exciting but sometimes it's necessary.


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## Nimrod7 (Sep 4, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Experience so far: utterly boring,


I really like boring…
Glad it turned out well. Still seeking stock myself….


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## Utkarsh (Sep 4, 2021)

My hub has arrived yesterday and yes. It’s boring. And I love boring ❤️


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## Drumdude2112 (Sep 6, 2021)

So this element hub will split my one available thunderbolt 3 port on my 2020 iMac into 3 thunderbolt ports ?


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## rnb_2 (Sep 6, 2021)

Yes, plus 4 USB-A ports.


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## Drumdude2112 (Sep 7, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> Yes, plus 4 USB-A ports.


Not too shabby 😁👍🏻


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## khollister (Sep 10, 2021)

So a little feedback on both the Caldigit Element and the similar OWC TB Hub (yes I purchased both). The OWC is really bulletproof so far. I can leave my OWC Envoy Pro SX SSD connected and the computer can sleep (MacBook Pro M1) and wake without ejecting the drive. It only has a single 10Gbps USB-A port, but inexpensive USB hubs (small passive intended for portable use) are quite cheap and work fine in my experience for stuff like iLok's, keyboards or even USB audio interfaces.

The Caldigit is $50 more, almost always unavailable still but does have 4 USB-A 10Gbps ports. However, it will always force eject the SSD upon sleep. It also has an odd behavior of when you haven't used it for some time (few weeks or so in my experience), it will connect and then turn off immediately. I have to reconnect, reboot and in general futz with it several times before it behaves normally as if it "forgets the computer it was connected to. I have tried updating the firmware with no visible sign of an update happening. I really need to contact Caldigit and see what is going on here.

My UA Apollo Solo (TB3) will turn on and off if the computer is asleep and force a reboot. This happens regardless of which hub I use or even if it is connected directly to the MBP. UA says this is not unexpected behavior with TB.

Given the above, I recommend the OWC hub and just get a cheap portable USB hub if you need more ports.


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## SupremeFist (Sep 10, 2021)

khollister said:


> The Caldigit is $50 more, almost always unavailable still but does have 4 USB-A 10Gbps ports. However, it will always force eject the SSD upon sleep.


You might have a faulty one as mine doesn't do that? All my drives are ready and working when the mac wakes from sleep every morning.


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## khollister (Sep 10, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> You might have a faulty one as mine doesn't do that? All my drives are ready and working when the mac wakes from sleep every morning.


That thought occurred to me. I'll reach out to them and see what they say. Given there is still no stock online, I wonder if they even have replacements available?

UPDATE: Chatted with Caldigit support and finally got them to issue an RMA for a replacement.


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## khollister (Oct 9, 2021)

So a belated update on the Caldigit Element issue. I received the replacement Element a few weeks back and I am happy to report it works perfectly. No more odd disconnects and TB drives appear to survive sleep without ejecting. Clearly there was something defective in the first one.

Not that this does anyone any good since they are still out of stock


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## Nimrod7 (Oct 29, 2021)

Did anyone daisy chained 2 Element 4 Hubs?
I am trying to see if I can meet the 1 cable connection to the new MacBook Pro's (well apart from the power).

The connectivity I need for this setup is mad...


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## rnb_2 (Oct 29, 2021)

While CalDigit does specifically mention daisy chaining with the Element Hub, I'd lean toward just using two connections to the MacBook Pro. If you were able to go with a true one-cable system, including power, I could see the attraction to daisy chaining - that one-cable lifestyle is attractive - but since the MacBook Pros have (according to what I've heard) one Thunderbolt controller per port, plugging an Element Hub into two separate ports insures adequate bandwidth for everything and eliminates any possibility of contention.

Once you're looking at connecting two cables instead of one, adding one more to the mix isn't as big a deal, so I'd lean toward making that three. Conveniently, all three connections are grouped together on the left side, so you can secure them together to your desk and have them ready to plug/unplug easily.


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## khollister (Oct 29, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> While CalDigit does specifically mention daisy chaining with the Element Hub, I'd lean toward just using two connections to the MacBook Pro. If you were able to go with a true one-cable system, including power, I could see the attraction to daisy chaining - that one-cable lifestyle is attractive - but since the MacBook Pros have (according to what I've heard) one Thunderbolt controller per port, plugging an Element Hub into two separate ports insures adequate bandwidth for everything and eliminates any possibility of contention.
> 
> Once you're looking at connecting two cables instead of one, adding one more to the mix isn't as big a deal, so I'd lean toward making that three. Conveniently, all three connections are grouped together on the left side, so you can secure them together to your desk and have them ready to plug/unplug easily.


Yeah, whatever else is sharing a TB bus with the XDR display is going be on a short leash. Daisy chaining everything, including 2 monitors, on a single TB bus is very non-optimal from a performance standpoint. 

My plan is to use 2 ports - The XDR on one with most of my USB 2/3.0 stuff using the built in hub, A TB4 hub on another with my Apollo/Satellite, my external SSD box (4 x 2TB Samsung 860 Evo's). That still leaves the 3rd port on the MBP as well as a TB port and USB 3.1/G2 port on the TB hub (the Element is in my travel bag, a OWC TB4 hub lives on the desk) for transient drives or whatever needs to be connected. I can also daisy chain from the UA Satellite or Akitio SSD chassis too.


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## Nimrod7 (Oct 29, 2021)

I did some tests on a MacBook Air 2020 Intel (!) connected on a single Element 4 Hub + CalDigit TS3+, and surprisingly both XDR is working 6K, as well as the LG 4k, plus all the other things above.

No bottlenecks observed.

I am assuming since the XDR requires the full 40Gbps bandwidth of the cable to experience the bottlenecks when it's operating in HDR mode?


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## khollister (Oct 29, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> I did some tests on a MacBook Air 2020 Intel (!) connected on a single Element 4 Hub + CalDigit TS3+, and surprisingly both XDR is working 6K, as well as the LG 4k, plus all the other things above.
> 
> No bottlenecks observed.
> 
> I am assuming since the XDR requires the full 40Gbps bandwidth of the cable to experience the bottlenecks when it's operating in HDR mode?


Not sure about HDR, but the M1 based Macs all support Display Stream Compression (DSC) so the bandwidth required is less than it would otherwise be, which is why the USB C ports on the XDR can operate as USB 3.1 instead of USB 2. 

If you already tried this except with a TB3 dock instead of a TB4 hub, then I guess you are good to go.


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## Nimrod7 (Oct 29, 2021)

khollister said:


> If you already tried this except with a TB3 dock instead of a TB4 hub, then I guess you are good to go.


Yes that's the one difference, and the TB3 10GpE SFP+ network adapter that haven't arrived yet. My guess is that consumes also lot of bandwidth, so the possibility for the setup to fail is still there.

Thanks for the input!


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## khollister (Oct 29, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> Yes that's the one difference, and the TB3 10GpE SFP+ network adapter that haven't arrived yet. My guess is that consumes also lot of bandwidth, so the possibility for the setup to fail is still there.
> 
> Thanks for the input!


Yeah, my only concern would be the 10Gbps+ for the ethernet adapter + the USB C camera drive caddy plus the 2 displays all sharing one TB bus. What do you travel with vs leaving in the Studio? If you dedicated one hub to the monitors and ethernet adapter which is left at home, and used the 2nd hub on a different MBP port for the Apollo and Ninja caddy which I'm guessing might be portable, that would be pretty easy.

If none of this stuff goes on t he road, then another option is to trade the Solo for a Twin which you can daisy chain something to, thus avoiding a 2nd hub at all.


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## Nimrod7 (Oct 29, 2021)

khollister said:


> If none of this stuff goes on t he road, then another option is to trade the Solo for a Twin which you can daisy chain something to, thus avoiding a 2nd hub at all.


Everything stays back in the studio. I travel just with the MacBook, nothing else. 

That's a great idea! And I had a Twin and sold it a while back, I will look into it, probably the price difference worth it when I will sell the arrow + save $300 on the second element. 

The other option is to switch the Solo with an SSL+ I have sitting around doing nothing, which is USB-C and that way I can save the second Hub again, but I don't want to loose the Unison Preamps. 
This setup is just for voice recording and mixing on the NLE, no music production.


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## Nimrod7 (Oct 29, 2021)

Oh, seems like the Twin's don't have daisy chain, just the rack mount apollos.


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## khollister (Oct 29, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> Oh, seems like the Twin's don't have daisy chain, just the rack mount apollos.


oh shit - sorry about that. No more bright ideas from me


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 5, 2021)

i have a DELL 5530 with 1 Thunderbolt 3 USB-C port.

i was reading that Thunderbolt 4 hubs are not recommended for Windows Thunderbolt 3 systems.

i would like to find a simple Thunderbolt 3 dock (3 USB-C ports or more) for Windows 10 Pro.

other ports on the dock are acceptable.


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## rnb_2 (Nov 5, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> i have a DELL 5530 with 1 Thunderbolt 3 USB-C port.
> 
> i was reading that Thunderbolt 4 hubs are not recommended for Windows Thunderbolt 3 systems.
> 
> ...


Your best bet is probably the CalDigit TS3 Plus - it has two USB-C ports (1x5Gbps, 1x10Gbps) plus two Thunderbolt 3 ports (one for connecting the dock to the computer, one to daisy chain that can be used for a USB-C device if you don't have any other Thunderbolt devices). It also has 5 USB-A ports, ethernet, audio jacks, and an SD card reader.


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## DESmith (Nov 6, 2021)

The Element Hub is finally available to order again on Amazon USA. Just ordered mine, says it will arrive by November 16th.


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## khollister (Nov 6, 2021)

DESmith said:


> The Element Hub is finally available to order again on Amazon USA. Just ordered mine, says it will arrive by November 16th.


And I see it went up another $20 - $249. I bought mine a few months ago from Caldigit for $179

Unless you need the small size, I would consider the Sonnet Echo 11 - 90W charging, Gb ethernet, card slot, audio for $319. The Element is only 60W


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## astreamproductions (Nov 6, 2021)

Did anyone try out the Razer Thunderbolt 4 dock? It looks almost identical to the one from OWC and probably has the same chip inside.





Razer Thunderbolt™ 4 Dock for Mac


A sleek, customizable dock for Mac designed to deliver the highest level of performance with Thunderbolt™ 4 and USB-4 for high-speed data transfer rates.




www.razer.com


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## rnb_2 (Nov 6, 2021)

khollister said:


> And I see it went up another $20 - $249. I bought mine a few months ago from Caldigit for $179
> 
> Unless you need the small size, I would consider the Sonnet Echo 11 - 90W charging, Gb ethernet, card slot, audio for $319. The Element is only 60W


Who knew they were going to become a collector's item? Not too far from 2x what I paid early this year.


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## rnb_2 (Nov 6, 2021)

astreamproductions said:


> Did anyone try out the Razer Thunderbolt 4 dock? It looks almost identical to the one from OWC and probably has the same chip inside.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It won't win any design awards (the black version for $10 more helps), but it has a lot of functionality in one box.


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## khollister (Nov 6, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> It won't win any design awards (the black version for $10 more helps), but it has a lot of functionality in one box.


The Sonnet Echo 11 is nearly identical with the addition of a USB-A charge port on the front for the same price and it's not hideous looking.

The larger OWC TB4 hub is a good deal but unavailable until next month at the earliest I believe.


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## rnb_2 (Nov 6, 2021)

khollister said:


> The Sonnet Echo 11 is nearly identical with the addition of a USB-A charge port on the front for the same price and it's not hideous looking.


You're right - all three (Sonnet, Razer, and OWC) are pretty clearly sourcing the same internals and putting them in their own cases. Sonnet added an extra USB-A charging port and a power switch to the front panel, and OWC mounted the Ethernet port a bit lower, but they're otherwise identical. Shame that the OWC isn't available yet, since it's $40 cheaper than the others.

The one irritating feature that they all share is the front-mounted "upstream" Thunderbolt port for connecting to the computer. As a photographer, I have difficulty figuring out where I would put a unit like this where the SD reader would be within reach but the Thunderbolt cable running from the front panel wouldn't be inconvenient at best. I guess it's meant to connect to a laptop that isn't in clamshell mode (so you're using the laptop keyboard and trackpad), but I would never arrange my desk like that.


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## khollister (Nov 6, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> You're right - all three (Sonnet, Razer, and OWC) are pretty clearly sourcing the same internals and putting them in their own cases. Sonnet added an extra USB-A charging port and a power switch to the front panel, and OWC mounted the Ethernet port a bit lower, but they're otherwise identical. Shame that the OWC isn't available yet, since it's $40 cheaper than the others.
> 
> The one irritating feature that they all share is the front-mounted "upstream" Thunderbolt port for connecting to the computer. As a photographer, I have difficulty figuring out where I would put a unit like this where the SD reader would be within reach but the Thunderbolt cable running from the front panel wouldn't be inconvenient at best. I guess it's meant to connect to a laptop that isn't in clamshell mode (so you're using the laptop keyboard and trackpad), but I would never arrange my desk like that.


First World Problems 

I guess I could be a dick and order the OWC one, use the Sonnet (which I ordered via Amazon) until it comes in and return the Sonnet (extended holiday returns), but That Would Be Wrong.


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## samphony (Nov 6, 2021)

Great thread. 
So in sum: if I want to connect 3-4 screens (2k+4k), controllers and audio interface (RME UFX+) with ONE CABLE to the MacBook Pro it works?

I have a CalDigit dock but planning to get a Thunderbolt 4 dock if necessary. 

As I will mostly use the 8TB internal SSD i will only occasionally connect to the black magic multi dock for backups through one of the ethernet connected Mac minis.


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## storyteller (Nov 6, 2021)

samphony said:


> Great thread.
> So in sum: if I want to connect 3-4 screens (2k+4k), controllers and audio interface (RME UFX+) with ONE CABLE to the MacBook Pro it works?
> 
> I have a CalDigit dock but planning to get a Thunderbolt 4 dock if necessary.
> ...


Just FYI - with the Intel Macs, the internal SSD is throttled when the thunderbolt ports are saturated. Not sure about M1, but I assume they would function the same. You would really want to have multiple thunderbolt controllers in your system for use with multiple displays, multitrack recording, and heavy sample library streaming... but it isn't a requirement... more like the way to approach it optimally.


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## rnb_2 (Nov 6, 2021)

samphony said:


> Great thread.
> So in sum: if I want to connect 3-4 screens (2k+4k), controllers and audio interface (RME UFX+) with ONE CABLE to the MacBook Pro it works?
> 
> I have a CalDigit dock but planning to get a Thunderbolt 4 dock if necessary.
> ...


You might be able to get away with one cable if you're not going to bring any storage into the mix, but 3-4 monitors off of one cable might be problematic. Most of the hubs/docks seem to support "up to two 5k" displays - so I think that 2k displays will still count against that total - or one 8k. Maybe you could get around that by hanging a dual-display hub off of a Thunderbolt port on TB4 hub?

The M1 Max does support up to 4 external displays (3x6k + 1x4k), but I don't know if that is supported over one cable, so be prepared to do some experimenting to find the optimal setup. In theory, you could use the Sonnet Echo 11 with two 4k Thunderbolt displays daisychained from one port, plus a Sonnet dual-port HDMI or DP adapter connected to the second downstream Thunderbolt port for 2x 2k displays. Finally, the RME UFX+ would use the third Thunderbolt port on the Echo 11, and you'd have three USB-A ports on the Echo 11 for controllers. In theory (again), the total bandwidth needed for all of this should be well under one Thunderbolt 4 controller's 40GBps, but I don't know if there would be a technical reason why all four displays couldn't be on one port - there very well may be.

So, you might be able to do everything off of one cable, but I'd be prepared to use two cables, just in case.


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## Nimrod7 (Nov 7, 2021)

I was trying to find reason in my situation and how a single port was able to power the XDR plus another 4K plus many other things and I run into this thread:









The ultimate Pro Display XDR info thread


True, but the Vega II has double the memory, almost double the stream processors, much faster memory with more bandwidth, higher compute power etc. I'm going to use those for sure, but three ProDisplay XDR's? I might get a second one, but really, I've never had three displays and doubt I ever...




forums.macrumors.com





The TLDR: there is a thing called Display Stream Compression (DSC) typically 3:1, in other words 43Gbps bandwidth can be compressed to around 17. The rest of the bandwidth can be used to feed other devices.
Of course the Mac need to support it.

The next step for me is to saturate the chain, e.g have the 10gbps network adapter, transferring a huge file from the HD connected to the same hub, and have the display run in HDR mode while audio is working at 192khz and see what happens.


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## khollister (Nov 7, 2021)

To pile onto what Rick said, the SonnetTech spec sheet for the Echo 11 hub (which is likely internally identical identical to the OWC and Razer ones) says 3 displays with 2 being fed off a TB3 -> 2XDP or 2XHDMI dongle. While 4 2k/4k displays aren’t a problem bandwidth wise, I think there are other limitations as to the number of DisplayPort streams in the TB protocol.

https://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/Thunderbolt_4_Dock_Compatiblity.pdf
The safe assumption is 3 displays via an adapter off the hub with a 4th display via the HDMI port on the MBP.

As to TB busses on the M1 Macs, it appears that unlike Intel designs, every TB4 port/connector has its own dedicated TB bus/controller. The Intel machines tended to have the ports in pairs - 4 ports, 2 busses. In the Intel/AMD world, everything comes back to how many PCIe lanes (and what gen they are) the CPU and chipset exposed. I suspect one of the reasons Apple always used Xeons for the Mac Pros was high PCIe lane count to support multiple graphics cards and crazy display counts.

I need to read the Anadtech M1 architecture deep dive article, but my guess is the Apple SOC architecture isn’t PCIe based except at the outward facing TB controller. Everything hangs off the stupid fast memory bus (200 GBs for the Pro, 400 GBs for the Max), so running 3 6k Pro Display XDR’s may not slow down in internal SSD.


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## pixelcrave (Nov 18, 2021)

FWIW, I literally just saw this video yesterday comparing a handful of TB docks connected to the new Macbook. If you only care for the snippet, here's the jump link to them testing CalDigit — which, in the description says it was the best one tested. Too bad they didn't have OWC on hand, which is what I'm considering as well.


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## khollister (Nov 18, 2021)

I have both a Caldigit Element and an OWC TB4 hub (the small one similar to the Element). Other than the different number of USB ports, I can't really tell any difference performance wise.


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## styledelk (Nov 19, 2021)

The Razer dock is working well for me so far on a 2019 16" Macbook Pro. I'm only powering one monitor, some USB-C HDDs, along as a USB hub with various devices. Audio Interface on USB-C directly to the laptop.


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## Tronam (Nov 19, 2021)

I finally managed to snag the CalDigit Element TB4 dock during the recent resupply and couldn't be happier. Extremely solid and reliable, like their TS3+ before it. It's one of the very few docks on the market right now that actually meet the TB4 spec.


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## Marsen (Nov 22, 2021)

After reading this thread, I like to buy the CalDigit Element Hub (TB4).
This one: https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/

I´m on Mac Mini 2018 Intel and want to connect 1 Display and maybe 4 SSD´s like T7 Samsung via USB-C, or Sata´s SSD´s over USB-A.

Can you recommend the CalDigit for that?
At the moment, I use a passive (not powered) Hub, which just makes problems.


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## Nimrod7 (Nov 22, 2021)

Marsen said:


> I´m on Mac Mini 2018 Intel and want to connect 1 Display and maybe 4 SSD´s like T7 Samsung via USB-C, or Sata´s SSD´s over USB-A.
> 
> Can you recommend the CalDigit for that?
> At the moment, I use a passive (not powered) Hub, which just makes problems.


If Element 4 can't pull it out, probably nothing can at this stage. 
I have concerns with the Mini 2018 since it doesn't support display stream compression to save some bandwidth for other devices. 

I am not sure how it will behave with 4 T7's and the 4K display, probably the T7s will throttle if you use them at the same time. Each reads around 1000MB/s, and we know T3/T4 is capping at around 2800MB/s.

I would say get one from a retailer that allows no question asked returns, and give it a try. 

This article explains a bit how bandwidth is used, it's an interesting read if you have time: 


Understanding Thunderbolt 3 Bandwidth


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## Marsen (Nov 22, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> If Element 4 can't pull it out, probably nothing can at this stage.
> I have concerns with the Mini 2018 since it doesn't support display stream compression to save some bandwidth for other devices.
> 
> I am not sure how it will behave with 4 T7's and the 4K display, probably the T7s will throttle if you use them at the same time. Each reads around 1000MB/s, and we know T3/T4 is capping at around 2800MB/s.
> ...


Very helpful, thanks.
For the moment, the display would just be a 1080p.
Would this work?


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## Nimrod7 (Nov 22, 2021)

Marsen said:


> Very helpful, thanks.
> For the moment, the display would just be a 1080p.
> Would this work?


It will leave more bandwidth available for the T7s, but I believe you're looking at 4000MB/s output with the 4 SSD's active, and you'll get 2800-3000 MB/s.

Now the scenario of having 4 drives reading full speed, might not be realistic in your case, and you might not see an impact in day to day.


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## Marsen (Nov 22, 2021)

Nimrod7 said:


> It will leave more bandwidth available for the T7s, but I believe you're looking at 4000MB/s output with the 4 SSD's active, and you'll get 2800-3000 MB/s.
> 
> Now the scenario of having 4 drives reading full speed, might not be realistic in your case, and you might not see an impact in day to day.


I think so too.
In real life usage (Sample streaming via Kontakt & Co., It should be enough.


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## styledelk (Nov 22, 2021)

Update: on the Razer I'm getting some noise on the speakers out from my Audient ID4 interface. Noise goes away when plugged directly to laptop.


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## rnb_2 (Nov 22, 2021)

styledelk said:


> Update: on the Razer I'm getting some noise on the speakers out from my Audient ID4 interface. Noise goes away when plugged directly to laptop.


That's not good news, since Sonnet and OWC use variations on the same hardware. Let us know if Razer has a solution for you.


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## styledelk (Nov 22, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> That's not good news, since Sonnet and OWC use variations on the same hardware. Let us know if Razer has a solution for you.


I wasn't even going to try and solve it with them. It's an annoyance that can be worked around pretty easily and is more likely a ground loop in my electrical than anything else.


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