# Is there a comprehensive list on instrument dynamics?



## mwarsell (Jan 11, 2017)

It seems that information like this is piecemeal - I gather something from here, something from there. Information like what is the minimum and maximum dynamic for e.g. flute in all the registers? What about trumpet? Oboe?

Is there a comprehensive guide or list for every orchestral (well, ethnic as well!) regarding dynamics and ranges? I can glean a lot from Adler and other orch. books, but I still feel I'm lacking something.

I can't afford to buy lessons from musicians who could show me this. This would be a good way though to do it, though.


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## JohnG (Jan 11, 2017)

try your library for a book by Blatter and see if that might help you a little. It's called, Instrumentation and Orchestration and it differs from Adler and most other orchestration books. It is expensive so I would suggest having a look before buying in case it's not for you.

I am not sure it will answer all your questions but it's more specific to the instruments themselves than most orchestration books. For example, it has fingering charts to help composers work out what will be difficult, and it also includes different ranges for professionals and students. While some of this is in other orchestration books, Blatter's might get at some of what you need.

Here's a link to the amazon page: 

The book is used as a text at university level.


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## LamaRose (Jan 11, 2017)

I know this isn't exactly what you're searching for... but this makes for a succinct, one-page cheat sheet to hang on the wall: http://forum.makemusic.com/attach.aspx/27785/Instrument Reference Chart v4.pdf


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## JohnG (Jan 11, 2017)

@LamaRose

I like the idea of your cheat sheet, but it has some information that is debatable and at least one or two things that are flat-out wrong. For example, a tenor trombone can theoretically hit notes above the concert C above middle C, but I have never spotted one at a scoring session. C is the highest I would write.

Arguably a bigger problem for the OP's question is the treatment of some of the volume "shapes." One example is that the piccolo and flute's volume shapes are shown as the same. They aren't. The piccolo can just about put your eye out even when it's not that high in register and, accordingly, has to be used very carefully, whereas a flute can play quite high in and still blend nicely with strings in unison or in octaves with other instruments.

I'm not going for "pedantic" either -- little details in instrumentation make a huge difference. I am a fan of one-page charts in general, but I'd request detailed advice from your professor or a professional orchestrator before relying too heavily on this one.


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## Morodiene (Jan 11, 2017)

Something that I think helps a LOT is to listen to live orchestral music. Being there, seeing and hearing them play, you get a really good idea of relative volumes - it's even better when you have a score of the music they're playing to follow along with!

Another thing you can do is go to a local college that has music majors and set up an hour with different musicians to play for you - maybe even have them sightread something you wrote and get feedback on how what you've written either works or doesn't.


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## mwarsell (Jan 11, 2017)

You people are so helpful!


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## bryla (Jan 11, 2017)

LamaRose said:


> I know this isn't exactly what you're searching for... but this makes for a succinct, one-page cheat sheet to hang on the wall: http://forum.makemusic.com/attach.aspx/27785/Instrument Reference Chart v4.pdf


One thing I've never understood with the dynamic charts like this is: what do the curves mean. Is it the maximum or the minimum of power in each register? If it doesn't show and you don't know, you'll make uninformed decisions.

I checked with Henry Brant's book 'Textures and Timbres' and it breaks up each register – and many bands of it! – of each instrument down in a dynamic range. A highly overlooked and recommended book!


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## muk (Jan 13, 2017)

Also, not exactly what you are looking for, but have a look at the VSL Mir or Mirx manual. Somewhere towards the end there is a table with the db offset values for their 'natural volume' feature. This shows how the average volume of orchestra instruments compare approximately. VSL derived that list from measurements they made with the instruments in their silent stage.


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## trumpoz (Jan 13, 2017)

A different way to think about dynamics is relatively. A mf when playing Mozart is different to a mf when playing Hindemith which is different to Count Basies band and then again to the Big Boss Brass.

General guides are good but it helps to have a greater understanding of how instruments work.

Im overseas atm so dont have the ability to write an in depth guide but there are plenty of wind and string instrumentalists on this forum. Off the top of my head:
Me, Rodney Money and someone else: Trumpet
Chibear: French Horn. Seriously listen to this guy. 
rgames: clarinet
Windshore: woodwind doubler? 
Lawson: strings, primarilly violin
Rpeat: Double Bass (i think)

There is a thread somewhere about the instruments we all play. I cant talk for anyone else but id be happy to put together a rough guide of what is expected of trumpet players.


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## IoannisGutevas (Jan 13, 2017)

I believe this is what you need: http://alexanderpublishing.com/Products/Spectrotone-Chart-Download__Spec-01-Download.aspx


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## Rodney Money (Jan 13, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> It seems that information like this is piecemeal - I gather something from here, something from there. Information like what is the minimum and maximum dynamic for e.g. flute in all the registers? What about trumpet? Oboe?
> 
> Is there a comprehensive guide or list for every orchestral (well, ethnic as well!) regarding dynamics and ranges? I can glean a lot from Adler and other orch. books, but I still feel I'm lacking something.
> 
> I can't afford to buy lessons from musicians who could show me this. This would be a good way though to do it, though.


Here you go, my friend. I bought this little book in high school, it got me through college, and I still use it to this day:


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## chibear (Jan 13, 2017)

You also might want to check this out: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration

Good old Rimsky deals with things like doublings to create good balance, and balance, and relative dynamics.

I don't believe you'll find a useful or realistic table of instrument dynamics, as all dynamics, as trumpoz stated, are relative to the composition and ensemble. For instance a violin will play a different level mf in a Haydn string quartet than a Mozart symphony, than a Mahler symphony, than the Rite of Spring. Furthermore, theoretically at least, any instrument can play any pitch from pp to ff (subject to practical issues of that instrument).

More important to learn that a solo cello cannot balance a full orchestra playing an epic f, or a full brass section balance a solo violin.


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## mwarsell (Jan 14, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Here you go, my friend. I bought this little book in high school, it got me through college, and I still use it to this day:




It's hard to find a copy of this in Finland.


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## tokatila (Jan 14, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> It's hard to find a copy of this in Finland.



Download Kindle application and it's instantly on your phone /tablet for 10 bucks.


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## Rodney Money (Jan 14, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> It's hard to find a copy of this in Finland.


Just order it from Amazon.com.


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## mwarsell (Jan 14, 2017)

Rodney Money said:


> Just order it from Amazon.com.


With the postage and customs the price will be like triple.


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## tokatila (Jan 14, 2017)

mwarsell said:


> With the postage and customs the price will be like triple.



Geez, There is Amazon.de, Amazon.co.uk and Bookdepository where it's 8,54 €, postage included. If it has the information you are looking for I don't know but won't break the bank.

http://www.bookdepository.com/Essen...e-Black-Tom-Gerou/9780739000212?ref=grid-view


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## mwarsell (Jan 14, 2017)

tokatila said:


> Download Kindle application and it's instantly on your phone /tablet for 10 bucks.


Cool, had no idea Kindle is also and app.


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## mwarsell (Jan 14, 2017)

tokatila said:


> Geez, There is Amazon.de, Amazon.co.uk and Bookdepository where it's 8,54 €, postage included. If it has the information you are looking for I don't know but won't break the bank.
> 
> http://www.bookdepository.com/Essen...e-Black-Tom-Gerou/9780739000212?ref=grid-view



Deleted my post, sorry. Short-sighted of me.


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