# "Old" Mac Pro vs. new Mac Studio.



## William The Concurer (May 12, 2022)

OK, the dilemma. I'm on the verge of being hired for a major game. I'm still working with my (not so trusty now) late 2012 iMac, 32GB RAM. It has served me well, but will simply not be up the task of what I would be asked to do in the game. I would need way more memory than that now. Furthermore, it exhibits the most bizarre OS/operating behaviour that seems to defy explanation and physics, which adds inordinate amounts of time to my work flow.

My future challenge is operating systems, and their compatibility with music software. We all know the nightmare this can present, but I want to be prepared and commit to the right system as a future investment. I have to say, buying the Mac Pro doesn't seem like a future investment.

But my anxiety about the Mac Studio is, although things like Kontakt are Monterey-ready(right?), and it's cheaper, I have many, many AU plugins which will probably fail the test. Plugins I frequently use. Synths, FX etc.

With my present iMac, I recently moved to Catalina, from Mojave, and even that wasn't a great experience. I managed to disable the Gatekeeper (don't get me on all of this),and all the AUs passed easily, but Catalina is proving to be a temperamental and unpredictable OS, compared to Mojave. Even with hardware, like my trusty little Korg Nanokoontrol 2 I bought for cc use in Kontakt and VSL's Synchron player.

With the Mac Pro, I could still work with Mojave. I really don't care about keeping up. It's a well-know music thing to lag behind until absolutely necessary. But the other matter is, when compared to the new mac Studio, the Mac Pro is damned expensive. My colleague/friend, who got me into this potential game gig thinks I should get the Mac Pro (he has one), which means I would avoid the rat's nest of OS/plugin incompatibilities. All well and good, but it's very pricey, and ultimately a dead-end technology. Both would require a display, too. I have two older Apple displays, so would only need one new one.

So, might anyone out there have any thoughts, or even hands-on experiences in this matter,please? Hope it's the right place to post this.

All help most appreciated.

-W


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## JohnG (May 12, 2022)

At the risk of stating the obvious, I doubt anyone is going to be able, with certainty, to recommend something that will definitely work with all the plugins you're accustomed to using.

A couple of questions that might help:

1. Can you list the plugins / ancillary software you use now? (might improve the accuracy of the responses)

2. Do you know whether you can "downgrade" a new computer's OS to Big Sur, by any chance? It might buy you a bit more compatibility.

3. Have you been using VE Pro, by any chance? If so, have you considered beefing up your setup by adding one or more PC sample-playback computers as satellites?

It's a rough dilemma, but I guess if you're on a major game, I doubt 32GB is going to cut it, so I don't see how you can stay with just that.

Either way, congratulations!!! and best of luck!


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## AndrewS (May 12, 2022)

JohnG said:


> Do you know whether you can "downgrade" a new computer to Big Sur, by any chance? It might buy you a bit more compatibility.


Apple machines generally don't let you install an operating system older than the one that was originally shipped with that gen product.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 12, 2022)

Alternately, see if you can get a 2020 iMac (i7 or i9) and fill it with 3rd party RAM.


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## AlexRuger (May 12, 2022)

There are plenty of ways around this but I doubt you'll like any of them, considering you found disabling Gatekeeper to be a big enough deal to mention.

First off, absolutely do not buy a new Mac Pro. It will be worth nothing when the Apple Silicon version comes out in about a year (or less), and it won't solve any of your problems mentioned here. The lowest OS you'll likely be able to install on it is Catalina.

If you care about backwards compatibility, you should probably be on Windows. Sucks but that's the way it is. macOS is my favorite OS by a mile, but I've been quite happy on Windows. That said, I'm pretty OS-agnostic and enjoy building my own PCs/etc. Sounds like that isn't you.

That said, if I'm wrong and you're down to build a PC, you could always build a hackintosh as a stop-gap.

A more convoluted move is to hang on to some old Mac, whether it be a physical machine or a virtual machine, and use that as a time capsule of sorts so that you can keep using those plugins. You'll need some way of using them though...host them in a DAW and give that machine MIDI/audio IO, host them in VEP, or REAmote if you're a Reaper user. Audio Gridder is also a thing but last I checked it wasn't ready for prime time.

Otherwise, I'd suggest buying a new Mac Studio and making due without whatever plugins haven't yet/never will make the jump to Apple Silicon. It really is the perfect Mac for a composer who needs a lot of power, perhaps even moreso than the soon-to-come Apple Silicon Mac Pro, in that Apple appears to be leaning more and more into seeing that machine as something for primarily Hollywood-level film editors/etc; it'll probably be overkill in the wrong ways for even those composers with absurdly massive templates.

Plugins are ethereal. I suggest trying to avoid getting married to any particular ones, as they can and disappear or no longer work at any time. I hate it but it's the truth. Do this for long enough and you're bound to be permanently screwed out of using particular plugins -- see for instance Camel Audio.



> Both would require a display, too. I have two older Apple displays, so would only need one new one.


I'm a little confused why you need to get a new display? As far as I know, older Apple displays will work perfectly fine with new machines.


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## JohnG (May 12, 2022)

AndrewS said:


> Apple machines generally don't let you install an operating system older than the one that was originally shipped with that gen product.


True, but sometimes you can get a computer with "one back" OS. I was able to do that in 2020


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## KEM (May 12, 2022)

The 2019 Mac Pro is probably the biggest waste of money ever and it will retain basically no value over the years. The Mac Studio is already a much better machine, and if the rumors are true that they’ll be announcing a new Mac Pro at WWDC this year then you’ll probably have your answer then, I’d give it a couple of months but your only options as of right now should be Apple Silicon based Mac’s


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## Prockamanisc (May 12, 2022)

Get a MacBook Pro for now, it's generally equivalent to the Studio, and just use it in clamshell mode. I'd wait for the new Mac Pros to come out (I currently own the 2019 Pro and have no regrets buying one, though I know I'll want the new one when it comes out). And when you do purchase a Mac Pro, you'll have a nifty little laptop for yourself.


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## JohnG (May 12, 2022)

KEM said:


> 2019 Mac Pro is probably the biggest waste of money ever


Zoiks! Already got one! 

It runs good though. As they say where I come from.


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## Tronam (May 12, 2022)

A bunch of kind souls on the KvR forum have been crowdsourcing every Apple Silicon update to plugins, instruments and DAWs over the past 2 years. The thread creator set up a website to organize and track it all with version numbers and vendor links at https://asaudio.tech

It gets updated daily, so definitely worth bookmarking for anyone wanting to figure out which of their plugins are native yet.


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## KEM (May 12, 2022)

JohnG said:


> Zoiks! Already got one!
> 
> It runs good though. As they say where I come from.



It is a very powerful computer, but it’s astronomically expensive and it’s now being beaten by the Mac Studio in a lot of areas. Buying one a few years ago was justifiable, buying one now is absolutely a waste of money


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## JohnG (May 13, 2022)

KEM said:


> Buying one a few years ago was justifiable, buying one now is absolutely a waste of money


I haven’t done the research, but from what I have seen you’re right. I have almost 400GB of RAM in mine so hopefully it’ll last 10 years, as the last one did.

I know Macs are expensive but they last a long time. My PCs, by contrast, are stuck on Windows 10 and not clear they can be updated beyond that. They still serve up samples lickety-split, but they age out.

Besides, I have never discovered any appetite for used PCs, by contrast with Macs. If you buy a Mac, it holds at least some value for a very long time. Last one I bought was pre-owned / used, and it still had value when I sold it after using it close to 10 years.


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## ChrisHarrison (May 13, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Alternately, see if you can get a 2020 iMac (i7 or i9) and fill it with 3rd party RAM.


I have a 2020 with max ram from owc. It crushes 128 gb ram


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 13, 2022)

ChrisHarrison said:


> I have a 2020 with max ram from owc. It crushes 128 gb ram


What do you mean by "crushes"?


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## AlexRuger (May 13, 2022)

JohnG said:


> I haven’t done the research, but from what I have seen you’re right. I have almost 400GB of RAM in mine so hopefully it’ll last 10 years, as the last one did.
> 
> I know Macs are expensive but they last a long time. My PCs, by contrast, are stuck on Windows 10 and not clear they can be updated beyond that. They still serve up samples lickety-split, but they age out.
> 
> Besides, I have never discovered any appetite for used PCs, by contrast with Macs. If you buy a Mac, it holds at least some value for a very long time. Last one I bought was pre-owned / used, and it still had value when I sold it after using it close to 10 years.


Unfortunately your logic is flawed. Macs hold their value in general, yes, but when Apple switched Intel, PowerPC models became paperweights overnight. Same thing is rapidly happening with Intel Macs. If I were you I’d sell that thing as fast as you can, sunk cost be damned. In a year it’ll be worth muuuuch less, and continuing to use it is gonna get more and more painful as vendors drop support for the platform. I’d guess that, at absolute best, you’ll get 5 remaining years out of it. Probably more like 3.


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## JohnG (May 13, 2022)

I wasn’t intending to recommend a 2019 for purchase today, Alex, in case that was the impression you received. So, sorry if that was ambiguous. Just that, in general, I really like Macs. Have owned PCs forever too, but I just don’t care for them.

So to be clear, even though I expect to get a lot more than three years out of the machine I bought (which is, after all, two years old already), I would not recommend getting an Intel Mac today. The new Silicon Macs look spectacular.


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## AlexRuger (May 13, 2022)

JohnG said:


> I wasn’t intending to recommend a 2019 for purchase today, Alex, in case that was the impression you received. So, sorry if that was ambiguous. Just that, in general, I really like Macs. Have owned PCs forever too, but I just don’t care for them.
> 
> So to be clear, even though I expect to get a lot more than three years out of the machine I bought (which is, after all, two years old already), I would not recommend getting an Intel Mac today. The new Silicon Macs look spectacular.


Oh totally, that wasn't my impression. I'm just saying that I wouldn't expect your machine to keep its value like Macs historically have. And to be clear, I expect 2019 Mac Pros to enjoy another 3 - 5 years of use _starting from today. _I also expect that those latter 1 or 2 years will be pretty painful.


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## ChrisHarrison (May 13, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> What do you mean by "crushes"?


It’s very fast, it is stable, the ram lets me run huge sessions with lots of VIs. It’s a powerhouse. I love it.


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## ChrisHarrison (May 13, 2022)

ChrisHarrison said:


> It’s very fast, it is stable, the ram lets me run huge sessions with lots of VIs. It’s a powerhouse. I love it.


Also, for me, it was very right for the price. To me, RAM is more important than a faster CPU. The iMac 2020 maxed out ram has served me very well with a full spitfire orchestra, 32samples of latency. I run keyscape on it, full orchestra of spitfire, ableton, dorico, all with no hickups, even large sessions.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 13, 2022)

ChrisHarrison said:


> It’s very fast, it is stable, the ram lets me run huge sessions with lots of VIs. It’s a powerhouse. I love it.


Oh yes! I have the 2020 i7 with OWC Ram, doesn't flinch. I've even ditched my slave PC and VEPro. For the price I paid for that iMac, it was a bargain for what it is. Possibly the best Intel iMac's they ever produced.


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## Nachivnik (May 14, 2022)

I bought a refurb 2020 i7 iMac + 128GB Crucial RAM a few months ago. It is more powerful than my current needs and has no compatibility problems from day one. It is a cost effective bridge for me until everything is settled in Apple Silicon land. I view it more as a consumable at this point than worry about its resale value. In real dollars/Euros/etc., you will lose less on an iMac than you will lose on a Mac Pro over the next few years because you spent less on it. I disagree with some of the worry over a short timeline for the useful life of an Intel Mac. This is not the PPC->Intel transition.

That said, soon after I purchased my iMac, the Studio was announced and I laughed, because it was the Mac I have always wanted. Right now, I am looking at my 50" TV (not even 4K) rather than my amazing 27" retina screen. I like the big screen. Most of my software now has native M1 versions.

I second the suggestion of listing the software you use. If your go-to software is almost all already native M1, then I think you could step right into an M1 computer without much hassle. However, if you have some key software you rely upon which is not yet native to M1, you may want to purchase a bridge machine like my iMac until all of your software is M1 native.

If the cost of the machine is low enough, you will not have lost a lot of money. It's like buying lunch to meet a deadline. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money. I wouldn't want to get bogged down troubleshooting compatibility problems while you need to be composing to a deadline.

I see used 2019 Mac Pros for sale. They remain rather expensive, even used. At least for my budget. If you need to get moving right away, I can vouch for the 2020 iMac as an in-between option.


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## HCMarkus (May 14, 2022)

I am running a Mac Studio Ultra with Digital Performer 11.1. Almost all of my plugins and VIs work, either in Native or Rosetta2 Mode within DP running Native. So far, the only non-working Vis I've found are BFD3 and NI Absynth and FM8. Several (Altiverb and Ivory come to mind) needed to be run under DP in Rosetta Mode to be authorized, but then work under DP Native. I'm sure there are more but, for my usage, the new Mac is working great. I just open projects started on my 5,1 Mac Pro in DP10.13 on the Mac Studio and go.


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## William The Concurer (May 15, 2022)

Many thanks to all for taking the time. I can't respond everything, but the posts were, in the main, most interesting, helpful and informative. One guy seems to have an attitude, which I dislike, 'cos he's no-one special to be making presumptions about me; or anybody, for that matter.

Notwithstanding, the contributions have given me a lot to consider, after a decade with a much-loved computer, which earned me a good living.

I don't have a lot of time to make a move, and it may be that I'll have to do (or start) this job on my existing machine, which is not ideal. It's served me well for a decade, doing TV, games etc., with it, but it's just that it has come close to its useful end, so I must be prepared to replace it ASAP. RIP....Mac.

I heard that many things can actually run better under Rosetta 2 than native(!?). Maybe the Mac Studio is the machine, after all. Thank you, kind poster, for your Mac Studio experience.

And thank you, John G, for your gracious well-wishes. You are a gentleman, Sir.

-W


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## tmhuud (May 15, 2022)

Best of luck during the transition. Transitions suck. I'm beginning it myself. Trying to get a very detailed spreadsheet of everything I need to re-install. To make it as simple as possible I ordered small hard drives from companies like Spectrasonics to make installations go easier.


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## KEM (May 15, 2022)

William The Concurer said:


> Many thanks to all for taking the time. I can't respond everything, but the posts were, in the main, most interesting, helpful and informative. One guy seems to have an attitude, which I dislike, 'cos he's no-one special to be making presumptions about me; or anybody, for that matter.
> 
> Notwithstanding, the contributions have given me a lot to consider, after a decade with a much-loved computer, which earned me a good living.
> 
> ...



Use Migration Assistant and you’ll be up and running in no time


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## rnb_2 (May 15, 2022)

William The Concurer said:


> Many thanks to all for taking the time. I can't respond everything, but the posts were, in the main, most interesting, helpful and informative. One guy seems to have an attitude, which I dislike, 'cos he's no-one special to be making presumptions about me; or anybody, for that matter.
> 
> Notwithstanding, the contributions have given me a lot to consider, after a decade with a much-loved computer, which earned me a good living.
> 
> ...


If you need something quickly (and it sounds like you do), a 27-inch iMac or iMac Pro from Apple's Refurb store might be a good stop-gap solution. There are a lot of machines there right now, all kinds of configs. The 10-core iMac Pro is still no slouch - a bit slower in single core than the 2020 8/10-core iMacs, a bit faster in multi-core, and has 4 TB3 ports on two separate buses vs 2 ports/1 bus on the iMac. There are 64GB iMac Pros on the refurb store that would be ready to go when you take it out of the box.

I'm an Apple Silicon early-adopter (probably one of the first to try an M1 here, because I don't make my living in music), but if your current machine is going to seriously hamper the work you've been hired to do, I'd go for the computer you can get (and that will definitely do the job) over a theoretical ideal that won't be available for 2-3 months.


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## gsilbers (May 15, 2022)

Seems many pros are in a similar cunumdrum. It might be some fears based on past experiences that for work a golden build needs to be achieve where mac os, plugin version and daw version need all be good and stable and updating is almost never done unless absolutly necesary and planned way ahead. 

To me the biggest hurdle was catalina. I think it was back then that apple started rosetta 2 transition. Removing 32 bit and other things that made developers really mad. But afterwards it seems most poeple have had an ok experience with big sur and monterrey on both AS and intel. 

I had a mac pro since forever and im stuck in mojave. but i got a 2020 mac mini and was using big sur and nomatter any updates or plugins it just worked. Large or small projects all good. And runs circles around my mac pro cpu wise.
Then i got a macbook air m1 and i think most things worked except some very well known apps but those got updated. 
Now its the oposite, not updatig and you start loosing access to certain sample libraries and plugins. Which also something i dont like. 

The transition is still going and its prettmuch like 2008 where you had to bet on intel or stay on powerpc and we know how that ended. So ill choose the mac studio. 
At the same time ocming from a 2013 imac to a 2020 imac is huge jump already so i think like others, it could be a good stop gap measure at least until the new mac pro comes out which i think it will be overkill for every single composer out there no matter is if its junkie xl or hans zimmer. The mac studio with ultra already blows away the most expensive mac pro intel and most custom built pc's. So lets see who that m2 does with double the power of m1 ultra. and price adjustment apple will surley start doing. :/


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## AndyP (May 16, 2022)

I also have an iMac i9 with 128 GB RAM and Mojave (because there are not only incompatible plugs, but also apps that I need do not run in 64 bit). It's fast enough for my needs, and I get by just fine with 128 GB. This means that the old MacPros are now switched off.

Unfortunately, I cannot judge at all whether you can get as far with an M1 Max and 64 GB Ram as with a iMac with 128 GB Ram. I have at least read here that swapping to the hard disk can cause problems above a certain size.

Also for mobile I am still considering getting a used Intel MacBook 2019 with 64 GB RAM. They are much cheaper than an M1 Max, but unfortunately Mojave doesn't run on it anymore.


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## rnb_2 (May 16, 2022)

AndyP said:


> Also for mobile I am still considering getting a used Intel MacBook 2019 with 64 GB RAM. They are much cheaper than an M1 Max, but unfortunately Mojave doesn't run on it anymore.


I can make a case for Intel on the desktop, especially with current supply constraints, but if you're not in need of a mobile-only 64GB setup immediately, there's no way I'd ever recommend an Intel laptop now.


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## AndyP (May 16, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> I can make a case for Intel on the desktop, especially with current supply constraints, but if you're not in need of a mobile-only 64GB setup immediately, there's no way I'd ever recommend an Intel laptop now.


I think I can agree with that. I think I'll stay away from Intel mobile solutions for fan reasons alone.


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## Tronam (May 16, 2022)

Having lived through the 2006 transition, so far I've found this one to be a bit faster and with far less of a performance penalty vs back then with Rosetta 1. The compatibility is much better too so that projects aren't irrevocably broken. Of my 400ish current plugins, most are now native. There are some notable holdouts, but I've been impressed with the majority of developers especially now that iLok finally went native. That was probably the biggest single impediment over the past year.


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## JohnG (May 17, 2022)

I re-read this thread and wanted to clarify.

I am not as on top of exactly what the new Mac Pro silicon computers can do, simply because I'm not in the market. If I _were,_ however, looking at another main computer, I'd be very reluctant to buy an Intel Mac today.

I think I see the new Mac desktop maxing out at 128 GB, but if I were buying today, I think I'd get that instead of what I have. I had to move on a new computer two years ago -- I have had a lot of work during that time and couldn't wait. I had a Mac Pro 5,1 and it just wasn't offering enough muscle.

If I were buying today I'd probably get the 128GB Mac desktop (can't remember what it's called) and use satellite PCs for sample playback, with VE Pro connecting everything.

Naturally, it would be nice to have one computer that could do everything. In my anecdotal survey, however, I couldn't find anyone who worked with just one computer. I'm alluding to composers working on TV shows and movies that require "everything" (orchestra, guitars, regional / ethnic flavour, choir, pop vocals, synths -- all of it). Of course, if you work with a narrower palette, you can do a lot with a single, powerful Mac.


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## NoamL (May 17, 2022)

@William The Concurer Forgive me if you've already considered this option,

but why not buy a Mac Studio now and use it as a VEP server computer while continuing to run your DAW on your iMac? Then, in a few months or years once all plugins are Apple Silicon ready, you can retire the iMac and switch to the Mac Studio as your main machine.

This way you get the immediate advantage of more RAM, and you've bought a future proofed machine.

The 2nd best option I think would be staying with your current machine as both DAW and VEP host, which will be comfortable & familiar, but I think you're likely to be correct that 32GB will be a frustrating limit.


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## NoamL (May 17, 2022)

About the debate n the last page - For what it's worth @AlexRuger is an absolute tech genius & @JohnG has been a working composer for decades. So I pay attention when either of you have something to say.

You're both right here. The best machine is one you plan to use for a long time (migration and updates are a pain), and when I was looking for a new machine I asked Alex's advice and he really helped me figuring this stuff out & understanding the power of Apple Silicon vs older machines, luckily the Mac Studio came out right around that time.

The workflow with Logic and VEP has been rock solid, but if you're migrating a giant menagerie of AU plugins you'd pretty much have to go to the developer websites or email them one by one to figure out what is currently supported. I run light and all the stuff I rely on (LiquidSonics, Fabfilter, and some others) is currently working fine.


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## JohnG (May 17, 2022)

NoamL said:


> but why not buy a Mac Studio now and use it as a VEP server computer while continuing to run your DAW on your iMac


Good thought, @NoamL


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## rnb_2 (May 17, 2022)

NoamL said:


> @William The Concurer Forgive me if you've already considered this option,
> 
> but why not buy a Mac Studio now and use it as a VEP server computer while continuing to run your DAW on your iMac? Then, in a few months or years once all plugins are Apple Silicon ready, you can retire the iMac and switch to the Mac Studio as your main machine.
> 
> ...


The biggest issue I see with this is availability - anything other than the stock Mac Studio Max configs (32GB/512GB, so not much help for the OP) is set to deliver in early July. Base Mac Studio Ultras are currently shipping in early July, with custom configs well into August.


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## odod (May 17, 2022)

my 2013 Mac Pro only able to have 79tracks in Logic, and it has 64gb ram 12 core xeon .. but it is still a powerful machine tho


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## HCMarkus (May 17, 2022)

JohnG said:


> Naturally, it would be nice to have one computer that could do everything. In my anecdotal survey, however, I couldn't find anyone who worked with just one computer. I'm alluding to composers working on TV shows and movies that require "everything" (orchestra, guitars, regional / ethnic flavour, choir, pop vocals, synths -- all of it). Of course, if you work with a narrower palette, you can do a lot with a single, powerful Mac.


But do we need it all simultaneously? 

I work in DP and can enable/disable VIs in my template with a mouse click. Disabled VIs use no RAM. Loading an enabled VI takes but a moment with today's fast storage. I can have a template with options galore that loads quickly and includes everything I might ever want without running out of the 64GB RAM in my Mac because no track requires all of the sounds I have on hand. 

I'm curious if others use this approach, too. When we loaded data from spinning platters of rust, sure, a no-go. But is load time still a problem now?


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## tmhuud (May 17, 2022)

NoamL said:


> @William The Concurer Forgive me if you've already considered this option,
> 
> but why not buy a Mac Studio now and use it as a VEP server computer while continuing to run your DAW on your iMac? Then, in a few months or years once all plugins are Apple Silicon ready, you can retire the iMac and switch to the Mac Studio as your main machine.
> 
> ...


These are good points. As a working full time composer I myself have considered this. (i.e. getting a new powerful Mac as a slave computer). 

A few things to consider though. 1) a very powerful Pc would cost a lot less. 2) I’m not so sure about your future proofing scenario as Apple keeps upgrading and updating CONSTANTLY) I guess it all depends on when it is you plan on making the switch from slave to (just)/master. Of course if the OP is not comfortable with a PC then yeah a Mac slave or master is the only way to go. 

Honestly, a lot of Pros are hoping for a one computer scenario but the wait continues. We are making strides though! One day!


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## Vik (May 18, 2022)

NoamL said:


> why not buy a Mac Studio now and use it as a VEP server computer while continuing to run your DAW on your iMac?


Sure – I have never used a slave computer, but it I've seen several users here who want to use the most powerful computer as a main computer and a less powerful one as a slave, but always thought that it would be best to use the most powerful Mac or PC as the slave computer, since that's the one which is going to need the most RAM, speed and performance.


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## tmhuud (May 18, 2022)

Vik said:


> Sure – I hag VePro onve never used a slave computer, but it I've seen several users here who want to use the most powerful computer as a main computer and a less powerful one as a slave, but always thought that it would be best to use the most powerful Mac or PC as the slave computer, since that's the one which is going to need the most RAM, speed and performance.


Not necessarily. If your also running VePro on your host you'll need power and RAM. Also if your doing media just throwing up a feature sucks power (unless your using Video Slave or something comparative)


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## Nachivnik (May 19, 2022)

Vik said:


> Sure – I have never used a slave computer, but it I've seen several users here who want to use the most powerful computer as a main computer and a less powerful one as a slave, but always thought that it would be best to use the most powerful Mac or PC as the slave computer, since that's the one which is going to need the most RAM, speed and performance.


This is something I have wondered about as an option - obtaining one of the readily-available base-model Apple Silicon MacBooks or Mac Studios as the main machine, and using the older Intel-based Mac for those plug-ins still not yet M1-native. Eventually, as all plug-ins become M1-native, the older Intel-based Mac would be phased out, leaving the question whether the new Apple Silicon Mac purchased is powerful enough.


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## Minsky (Aug 23, 2022)

AlexRuger said:


> There are plenty of ways around this but I doubt you'll like any of them, considering you found disabling Gatekeeper to be a big enough deal to mention.
> 
> First off, absolutely do not buy a new Mac Pro. It will be worth nothing when the Apple Silicon version comes out in about a year (or less), and it won't solve any of your problems mentioned here. The lowest OS you'll likely be able to install on it is Catalina.
> 
> ...


I used to love camel audio. . o much of what you have said I find to be true.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 23, 2022)

We are definitely in the middle of a transitionary period...and the situation will be different for everyone as to whether to hang on with Intel for a while longer or switch to Apple Silicon now. In my view, Intel is still much more fully supported then Apple Silicon, especially in the world of DAW's and plugins, etc. In my view the best Mac today, for what we do, is the 2019 Intel MacPro. However, in 5 years Apple Silicon will definitely have taken over everything and its quite likely that anyone stuck with Intel machines at that time will be really falling behind. We are not at that moment just yet. Right now, Apple Silicon users are the bleeding edge frankly, especially in the audio community. Things getting better for them every day, but as of right now in 2022, Intel is still king for audio work in terms of compatibility.

I personally think the 2019 MacPro will not be dropping in value any time soon. But in 5 years it might. It will not hold on to its value nearly as much as the cheese graters have because of the transition to Apple Silicon. But if you can justify the cost for 3-5 more years of use, then I think they are still the best option right now for something you can just buy and know it will work.

I personally think its better to wait a bit if you can hold out, but 32gb is probably not enough, as others have said already. I personally would rather look at stop gap measures for now, solutions that might cost a few thousand bucks at the most and get through the next couple years, then jump to Apple Silicon at that time. By then all plugins, drivers and software should be pretty much fully native AS and hopefully machines with more Ram won't cost a fortune either. (knock on wood).

some stop gap measures might be adding some RAM to the existing cheese grater, or sell it and buy a another used cheese grater or trashcan with faster CPU and more ram, or build a $1k VePro server. You could also pickup a used cheesgrater for around $1k for that task if the thought of building a PC gives you nightmares. Right now is not the best time to acquire what you think will be your ultimate dream machine to last for 10 years from here. Just one more opinion....


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## HCMarkus (Aug 23, 2022)

> You could also pickup a used cheesgrater for around $1k


I recently sold my backup 5,1 12 core 3.33gHz for $350, and it took awhile. Tremendous value for the musician able to work within its limitations.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 23, 2022)

HCMarkus said:


> I recently sold my backup 5,1 12 core 3.33gHz for $350, and it took awhile. Tremendous value for the musician able to work within its limitations.



not sure what the rest of the specs were but I suspect a 5,1 with ample memory, some storage, etc..is going to cost about $1k right now. But hey..the cheaper the better.. its a stop gap. 

I'm hanging on to mine indefinitely, it will become a quite capable VePro server eventually.


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## Tronam (Aug 23, 2022)

Minsky said:


> I used to love camel audio. . o much of what you have said I find to be true.


Camel Audio lives on in Logic, for the most part, and with improvements. Ben Gillett (Camel’s founder/dev) is still at Apple as one of their senior engineers. The user interface was modernized with a flatter aesthetic, but Alchemy became Logic’s flagship synthesizer and all of the Camel effects algorithms made their way into 2 multiFX plug-ins: PhatFX and StepFX. They’re even settings compatible with CamelSpace and CamelPhat. Of course they’re Logic only now, which is the biggest downside, but certainly not dead. 😉


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