# I paid ~$1200.00 for Hollwood Strings and apparently I have to buy Gold if I want to save HDD space



## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

So I know East West are basically a joke sample company now, but this is literally the stupidest thing I have ever heard. 

They want me to pay for an inferior version to save hard drive space.

has anyone got any sort of work around?


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## DivingInSpace (Nov 20, 2018)

Isn't there included both 16 bit and 24 bit samples? In that case, it might be possible to delete either one of them?

It might be worth i try at least.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

DivingInSpace said:


> Isn't there included both 16 bit and 24 bit samples? In that case, it might be possible to delete either one of them?
> 
> It might be worth i try at least.


It's the mic positions that add to the gigabyte amount but ill have a look n see if it helps.


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## Robo Rivard (Nov 20, 2018)

If I understand well, you bought a sample library bigger than the capacity of your hard drive, and you trash the company for it ?


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> If I understand well, you bought a sample library bigger than the capacity of your hard drive, and you trash the company for it ?


nope. I have space.

The space the extra mics take up are not worth it for me.


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## DivingInSpace (Nov 20, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> It's the mic positions that add to the gigabyte amount but ill have a look n see if it helps.



Having both 16 and 24 bit samples takes up more unnecessary space than just the mic positions, as all samples (including mic positions) would be doubled in that case (of cause in lower size for 16 bit though). If you only use one, having both would be your biggest waste as far as i am concerned. Wether you can actually remove them, i have no idea but it is worth a try.


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## Guffy (Nov 20, 2018)

Delete the mics you don't need? I don't see the problem.
Say you wanted to delete the vintage mics..


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## MarcelM (Nov 20, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> It's the mic positions that add to the gigabyte amount but ill have a look n see if it helps.



its not the mic positions only. there is also quite a difference between 16/24 bit samples.
your best bet is really to delete some mic positions. I personally only use the main and close mics tbh.

but I agree with you. as a diamond owner you should be able to use the lower tier products aswell.


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## Guitarman76 (Nov 20, 2018)

Hard drives are cheap just buy bigger hard drives


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## Wall Art Music (Nov 20, 2018)

I've got diamond HS which has only 24 bit samples, and gold has only 16 bit samples. Are you saying platinum has both? That's a little weird. But the library is huge and it's because of all the mics.

I moved close and mid mics to my work drive, and kept all the other mics on a separate drive. Worked fine.


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## MarcelM (Nov 20, 2018)

platinum is the symphonic orchestra and not the Hollywood one.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

Guitarman76 said:


> Hard drives are cheap just buy bigger hard drives













Yeah cheap as.


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## wcreed51 (Nov 20, 2018)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1382499-REG/samsung_mz_76e1t0b_am_860_evo_1tb_internal.html


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## wcreed51 (Nov 20, 2018)

So... The Chevy Suburban takes up too much room in your garage. WTF's wrong with the dealership that they won't give you a Chevy Cruze for free.


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## Jaap (Nov 20, 2018)

I don't understand why the pickyness towards Simon? Think deleting the mic options suggestion is a good one, but otherwise I think it is actually a fair point to ask the developer if he can access a slimmed down version, specially if you paid the full price. If the product would be different I would understand, but as it is the same library and it costs them nothing as it has a download option.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

Guffy said:


> Delete the mics you don't need? I don't see the problem.
> Say you wanted to delete the vintage mics..


Does the instrument still load as normal by simply deleting folders?
EastWest didn't mention being able to do this at all.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

wcreed51 said:


> So... The Chevy Suburban takes up too much room in your garage. WTF's wrong with the dealership that they won't give you a Chevy Cruze for free.


Yeah...that's the same.

And I am not really wanting to pay 200+ after shipping and conversion rates to half fill a 1tb SSD with HWStrings.

....which is exactly what I am doing right now.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

Jaap said:


> I don't understand why the pickyness towards Simon? Think deleting the mic options suggestion is a good one, but otherwise I think it is actually a fair point to ask the developer if he can access a slimmed down version, specially if you paid the full price. If the product would be different I would understand, but as it is the same library and it costs them nothing as it has a download option.


I think it's coz I came out swinging.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 20, 2018)

You paid $1200 for Hollywood Strings?


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## Jaap (Nov 20, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> You paid $1200 for Hollywood Strings?



Yes when it was released both HWS and HWB had that price. Paid here €2400 for both (to be fair, it was 1199 for each, so it was 2398  )


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## zvenx (Nov 20, 2018)

I had the same issue (well I didn't pay $1200 for it and I have the full Orchestra), I ended up buying the Gold too (at a discounted price), but indeed I too wished the ilok license for the larger one would allow you to run the smaller one if you so choose. As it is I have both a Diamond and Gold unused which I can't sell.
rsp


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## AdamAlake (Nov 20, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> nope. I have space.
> 
> The space the extra mics take up are not worth it for me.



So why did you buy the library, when the required space is stated on the product page?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 20, 2018)

Jaap said:


> Yes when it was released both HWS and HWB had that price. Paid here €2400 for both (to be fair, it was 1199 for each, so it was 2398  )


Hehe, I'm aware of that. I just think the title of the thread is silly. 

"Years ago I bought something that was expensive. It doesn't do a thing I want."


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## ka00 (Nov 20, 2018)

I deleted the vintage mic and divisi mics to trim HWS down. But I kept a backup.

Everything works fine.

If there were 16-bit vs 24-bit options, I don’t recall. First thing I do is usually delete the 16-bit variations in cases where developers provide both. 

If you delete all the additional mics, you basically have Gold, iirc. Maybe they can’t give you a license for Gold because they have no way or preventing from reselling that and keeping Diamond or vice versa. Just guessing.


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## Guitarman76 (Nov 20, 2018)

You aren't allowed to resell them anyway as far as I know. Which I certainly do not agree with but that's been discussed to death over the years.
Seeing as Gold is sold as a separate product I really don't think you can expect a company to give you a smaller product for free just because you bought their most expensive one.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 20, 2018)

I recently bought HWO Diamond.

It sits comfortably on my 2tb m.2.


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## JohnG (Nov 20, 2018)

I got rid of the 16 bit samples, which helped. I don't use the close mics either, though I realise a lot of people do.

It is a pretty big library; I still love the buttery sound.


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## clisma (Nov 20, 2018)

Another thumbs up for just deleting the mic positions you don’t use, Simon. For me it was the Surrounds (left the Vintage though, as I liked them). But you could delete any mic positions you don’t use and significantly reduce the footprint. And yes, it will load just fine. If you happen to want to load a mic position you deleted in Play, it will simply tell you that it’s not available.


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## Guffy (Nov 20, 2018)

Case solved then.

I guess east west isnt so bad afterall.


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## MarcelM (Nov 20, 2018)

JohnG said:


> I got rid of the 16 bit samples, which helped. I don't use the close mics either, though I realise a lot of people do.
> 
> It is a pretty big library; I still love the buttery sound.



what 16 bit samples? I got diamond but I can't see any 16bit samples?


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## Breaker (Nov 20, 2018)

MarcelM said:


> what 16 bit samples? I got diamond but I can't see any 16bit samples?


I honestly think people are mixing up EWQL Symphonic Orchestra and Hollywood Orchestra


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## JohnBMears (Nov 20, 2018)

Hollywood Diamond ONLY ships with 24 bit samples. The combination of that AND the extra mics makes it so much insanely larger. Hollywood Gold ONLY ships with 16 bit samples. That combined with the singular mic position makes it so much smaller. I wonder what 'would have' been the GB size of Diamond (with all mics) BUT in 16 bit samples????


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## MartinH. (Nov 20, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> And I am not really wanting to pay 200+ after shipping and conversion rates to half fill a 1tb SSD with HWStrings.



Just FYI, you can use file-system-level workarounds for distributing sample libraries more efficiently over limited harddisk space that is split over multiple drives. E.g. (on windows 7) I use a tool called "steam mover" (just a frontend to call some OS-level command line tools) to move libraries that I never use that are installed on my SSD to cheaper HDD drives, to save SSD space. They still work (hard disk limitations aside), but it frees up valuable SSD space. You could maybe use the same technique to more efficiently split one big library accross two SSD drives, in case that helps in any way. Can get confusing where stuff is though after a while. Always back up your data before trying stuff like that.


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## JeeTee (Nov 20, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> I wonder what 'would have' been the GB size of Diamond (with all mics) BUT in 16 bit samples????


According to my calculations, 208 Gb - ie. two thirds of the size!


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## Breaker (Nov 20, 2018)

JeeTee said:


> According to my calculations, 208 Gb - ie. two thirds of the size!



Yes, or 5 times the size of Gold as there are five times more mic positions.

EDIT: the bow change articulations increase the size a little as well


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## Guffy (Nov 20, 2018)

Breaker said:


> Yes, or 5 times the size of Gold as there are five times more mic positions.
> 
> EDIT: the bow change articulations increase the size a little as well


And divisi samples for everything!


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## Breaker (Nov 20, 2018)

Guffy said:


> And divisi samples for everything!



Dammit, I knew I missed something


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## wcreed51 (Nov 20, 2018)

Which developers do you suppose would play ball with a request like this? We should do a poll !


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## JohnG (Nov 20, 2018)

JohnBMears said:


> Hollywood Diamond ONLY ships with 24 bit samples.



Maybe I misremembered? I thought I deleted a set but maybe I'm wrong. I bought it the day it came out though, so it was quite a while back.

I think I paid more than $1,200 too!


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## Jaap (Nov 20, 2018)

JohnG said:


> Maybe I misremembered? I thought I deleted a set but maybe I'm wrong. I bought it the day it came out though, so it was quite a while back.
> 
> I think I paid more than $1,200 too!



Maybe with LASS? That came with 24 and 16 bit.

I paid it in Euro's and think at that time it would come close to 1350/1400 dollar I think


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## Casiquire (Nov 20, 2018)

I'm confused here. Gold is essentially just one mic position with a lower sample rate, which is a bad thing. Delete the other mic positions and divisi, and you get the best of both worlds. I fail to see how getting Gold is a preferable option.


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## Mister Jös (Nov 20, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> I'm confused here. Gold is essentially just one mic position with a lower sample rate, which is a bad thing. Delete the other mic positions and divisi, and you get the best of both worlds. I fail to see how getting Gold is a preferable option.


There is still a higher requirement for RAM and space on the SSD. And as I remember correctly there are discussions wether 24bit is necessary for audio content without a sharp transient.


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## Fleer (Nov 20, 2018)

Got both Diamond and Gold for this very reason. Diamond at home and Gold on the road.


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## Audio Birdi (Nov 20, 2018)

Backed up the diamond libraries and deleted the microphone positions i don't need without any issues. do be careful with some of libraries though. as for some odd reason, with a few patches, PLAY loads samples from some other mic positions even though you've not clicked on that particular mic position.

Example (not accurate instrument or articulation though):
clicked and tried to load 6 french horn staccato close mic patch. some sample files wanted to be loaded from the vintage microphone sample folder.

It's very rare, but some patches do this which is odd.
But the majority of patches don't. so do backup diamond libraries just in case.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

Thanks for all the help!



AdamAlake said:


> So why did you buy the library, when the required space is stated on the product page?


I thought this was already clear. I bought it back when it was released so that comment has no
bearing on my situation presently.


Guffy said:


> Case solved then.
> 
> I guess east west isnt so bad afterall.


No they are still awful.


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 20, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> "Years ago I bought something that was expensive. It doesn't do a thing I want."


Sounds a bit like children if I’m honest. And no, I didn’t “buy” my children but the rest holds.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Sounds a bit like children if I’m honest. And no, I didn’t “buy” my children but the rest holds.


If you're not going to add anything meaningful to this thread why post at all?


And do let me know exactly what's unreasonable about what I am after?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 20, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> If you're not going to add anything meaningful to this thread why post at all?
> 
> 
> And do let me know exactly what's unreasonable about what I am after?


You could change the title of the thread to something like "Hollywood Strings Diamond - Need Help Saving HDD Space". What you're after is otherwise completely reasonable.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> You could change the title of the thread to something like "Hollywood Strings Diamond - Need Help Saving HDD Space". What you're after is otherwise completely reasonable.


That's not very alarmist.


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 20, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> If you're not going to add anything meaningful to this thread why post at all?
> 
> 
> And do let me know exactly what's unreasonable about what I am after?


There was absolutely nothing unreasonable about your post. Mine was a complete throw away line intended to add some levity. Apologies if it caused offence and for the record I love my children unconditionally.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> There was absolutely nothing unreasonable about your post. Mine was a complete throw away line intended to add some levity. Apologies if it caused offence and for the record I love my children unconditionally.


are you saying you're my new papa?


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## Jdiggity1 (Nov 20, 2018)

Shit's gettin weird


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## Kony (Nov 20, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> are you saying you're my new papa?


Search your feelings, you know it to be true....


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Nov 20, 2018)

Kony said:


> Search your feelings, you know it to be true....


Better get some more Leslie Nielson material ready


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## Kony (Nov 20, 2018)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Better get some more Leslie Nielson material ready


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## Land of Missing Parts (Nov 20, 2018)

I paid ~$9,999.95 for Flutes of Fire


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## Divico (Dec 1, 2018)

Audio Birdi said:


> Backed up the diamond libraries and deleted the microphone positions i don't need without any issues. do be careful with some of libraries though. as for some odd reason, with a few patches, PLAY loads samples from some other mic positions even though you've not clicked on that particular mic position.
> 
> Example (not accurate instrument or articulation though):
> clicked and tried to load 6 french horn staccato close mic patch. some sample files wanted to be loaded from the vintage microphone sample folder.
> ...


Had the same issue with Vln 2 i guess. This is just a fuckup from EW. After going into the folders I found out they mixed up things. Vintage contained data from another mic position. Moving the folders around solves this problem
Anyone experience in hard linkin folders?
I cant load more than 2 mic pos so Id like to move my less used ones to my HDD freeing space from my SDD while being able to load those samples


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## Zoot_Rollo (Dec 1, 2018)

Divico said:


> Had the same issue with Vln 2 i guess. This is just a fuckup from EW. After going into the folders I found out they mixed up things. Vintage contained data from another mic position. Moving the folders around solves this problem
> Anyone experience in hard linkin folders?
> I cant load more than 2 mic pos so Id like to move my less used ones to my HDD freeing space from my SDD while being able to load those samples



interesting. i'll have to check this.

i didn't know we could say fuck here.


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## averystemmler (Dec 1, 2018)

Divico said:


> Had the same issue with Vln 2 i guess. This is just a fuckup from EW. After going into the folders I found out they mixed up things. Vintage contained data from another mic position. Moving the folders around solves this problem
> Anyone experience in hard linkin folders?
> I cant load more than 2 mic pos so Id like to move my less used ones to my HDD freeing space from my SDD while being able to load those samples



I actually have this issue with gold - it's a real problem, because I have neither the files nor the license for the other mic that it wants to load, causing it to straight up crash when loading specific patches. It seemed to be introduced in one of the more recent (I.e., the past couple of years) versions of Play.

Most notably, this happens with the Vln II Slur + Port legato patches. I just had to use the slur only patches for Vln II, which made my template a bit inconsistent when it was based around the Hollywood series.

I put it a support ticket last year. They asked for a verbose log, I gave it to them, and that's the last I've heard.


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## Divico (Dec 1, 2018)

averystemmler said:


> I actually have this issue with gold - it's a real problem, because I have neither the files nor the license for the other mic that it wants to load, causing it to straight up crash when loading specific patches. It seemed to be introduced in one of the more recent (I.e., the past couple of years) versions of Play.
> 
> Most notably, this happens with the Vln II Slur + Port legato patches. I just had to use the slur only patches for Vln II, which made my template a bit inconsistent when it was based around the Hollywood series.
> 
> I put it a support ticket last year. They asked for a verbose log, I gave it to them, and that's the last I've heard.


Sounds pretty bad. You sure it has to do with play and not with the sample folders themselves?


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## averystemmler (Dec 1, 2018)

Divico said:


> Sounds pretty bad. You sure it has to do with play and not with the sample folders themselves?



Fairly certain. It's been a while since I dealt with it, but that was my first thought. I had a gander at the verbose logs myself, and found that there was an error being thrown regarding a missing license for a mic position I didn't have, and only when attempting the patches that didn't load.

It happened on both my master and slave, in my DAW and VE Pro, and I tried replacing the sample folders with the "originals" from the drive they shipped on. And the other usual steps (reinstall play, etc). After emailing with EW and checking the logs, it was really just easier for me to not have portamento on the 2nd Violins.

I tried a few Play updates since to no avail, but I don't own 6. And now I'm all aboard the CSS train.

EDIT: I should add that this was not a rampant problem, and the 2nd vln legato was the only case where it really prevented me from using something I needed.


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## Audio Birdi (Jan 7, 2019)

Divico said:


> Had the same issue with Vln 2 i guess. This is just a fuckup from EW. After going into the folders I found out they mixed up things. Vintage contained data from another mic position. Moving the folders around solves this problem
> Anyone experience in hard linkin folders?
> I cant load more than 2 mic pos so Id like to move my less used ones to my HDD freeing space from my SDD while being able to load those samples



Just a quick question, was it the Violins 2 Shorts Mod Speed patch that was doing this with the vintage mic patch wanting to load? Having that issue here and wondering what to do. Thanks!

Edit:
Managed to figure this out, had to batch re-name literally all the spiccato articulations and move them to a vintage microphone folder too! such a pain, not sure why it happens literally only on the Shorts MOD SPEED patch :/


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## chlady (Jan 7, 2019)

wcreed51 said:


> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1382499-REG/samsung_mz_76e1t0b_am_860_evo_1tb_internal.html


I just got one of these Samsung 1Tb ssds for $128 on sale at Newegg not long a go. SSDs keep getting cheaper all the time. Right now I have 13 HDs in my set up with my mac pro.


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## Divico (Jan 8, 2019)

If you lack space on your ssd, heres a trick how you can split the diamond version on two drives keeping it functional. https://vi-control.net/community/th...n-to-different-drives-tut.77610/#post-4319759


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## Karl Feuerstake (Jan 8, 2019)

there were some 1tb ssds on sale for around 150-200 during black friday. guess you missed that plane though. dont pay 1k for a 2tb.


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## Digivolt (Jan 8, 2019)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> there were some 1tb ssds on sale for around 150-200 during black friday. guess you missed that plane though. dont pay 1k for a 2tb.



Prices are predicted to continue to fall through 2019 although due to new import tarrifs I'm not sure the US/Canada will see as greater a fall as those of us in Europe


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## will_m (Jan 8, 2019)

wcreed51 said:


> So... The Chevy Suburban takes up too much room in your garage. WTF's wrong with the dealership that they won't give you a Chevy Cruze for free.



That's not really a fair analogy though, the costs incurred to the dealership would be massive, the costs to a sample dev to send you the lower tier version is a bit of bandwidth and maybe some admin.

Or to go another way, if I deliver someone a track in WAV format as they ask for it, then they come back to me and say actually I'd like an mp3, I'm not going to give them a hard time.


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## Desire Inspires (Jan 8, 2019)

Karl Feuerstake said:


> there were some 1tb ssds on sale for around 150-200 during black friday. guess you missed that plane though. dont pay 1k for a 2tb.




I got a 1TB Drive for my PS4. It was only $50 from Walmart. 

The 2TB Drives were only $30 more. Who in the world is paying $1,000 for a 1TB SSD Drive these days?


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## Johnny (Jan 9, 2019)

JohnG said:


> Maybe I misremembered? I thought I deleted a set but maybe I'm wrong. I bought it the day it came out though, so it was quite a while back.
> 
> I think I paid more than $1,200 too!


Pretty sure I paid $1499.99 on release? Or close... I think? Lol #noregrets


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## JohnG (Jan 9, 2019)

Johnny said:


> #noregrets



Same here. It's a great library.


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## Dominik Raab (Jan 9, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> I got a 1TB Drive for my PS4. It was only $50 from Walmart.
> 
> The 2TB Drives were only $30 more. Who in the world is paying $1,000 for a 1TB SSD Drive these days?



Are you comparing regular HDDs to SSDs? 1TB for 50 bucks doesn't sound like an SSD to me.

Don't know about international deals, but Amazon Germany currently has the Samsung Evo 1TB for 160 Euros, down from 370. If anyone's in the market for a bigger SSD, check your local stores for deals like this. You probably won't get it cheaper any time soon.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 9, 2019)

There are https://www.amazon.com/Silicon-Power-Performance-Internal-SP512GBSS3A55S25/dp/B07997QV4Z/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1547069119&sr=1-4&keywords=500gb+ssd (512GB SSDs for $50 - 60)now.

I'm late to this thread, but I have a feeling a few people might not agree that EW is a "joke" sample company.


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## JonSolo (Jan 9, 2019)

Desire Inspires said:


> I got a 1TB Drive for my PS4. It was only $50 from Walmart.
> 
> The 2TB Drives were only $30 more. Who in the world is paying $1,000 for a 1TB SSD Drive these days?



No way was this an SSD. Period. Did not happen. The lowest I saw a 2TB drive was around $270 during the holidays. Granted prices are low, but not that low. You can still find fantastic deals on 1TB drives, but I am already in the game for a much larger SSD (I already have 5x and looking to replace them).


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 9, 2019)

JonSolo said:


> No way was this an SSD. Period. Did not happen. The lowest I saw a 2TB drive was around $270 during the holidays. Granted prices are low, but not that low. You can still find fantastic deals on 1TB drives, but I am already in the game for a much larger SSD (I already have 5x and looking to replace them).



I saw them for about $200, like $210, but that was only once.

But yeah, there's no $50 1TB SSD.


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## Johnny (Jan 9, 2019)

JohnG said:


> Same here. It's a great library.


Yes! Still using it to date! Despite a near generation of great contenders! Hollywood Strings just always sounds great in a mix


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## Tfis (Jan 9, 2019)

Never regret the € 99,- I paid...


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## NYC Composer (Jan 9, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I saw them for about $200, like $210, but that was only once.
> 
> But yeah, there's no $50 1TB SSD.


Me too, an Adata 2tb for $205. I think those deals will continue.


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## Dominik Raab (Jan 9, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I'm late to this thread, but I have a feeling a few people might not agree that EW is a "joke" sample company.



There are most certainly many people who don't believe that, but they probably won't voice that opinion on VI-C. There seems to be an overall agreement that "we don't like EW" here. Meanwhile, my template is 60% EW at the very least, and whenever this comes up, I'm sitting here shaking my head and munching popcorn.

Want some, Nick? :emoji_popcorn:


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## Pantonal (Jan 10, 2019)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> Yeah cheap as.


I just got a 2 TB SSD from Crucial for $289.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 10, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> There are https://www.amazon.com/Silicon-Power-Performance-Internal-SP512GBSS3A55S25/dp/B07997QV4Z/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1547069119&sr=1-4&keywords=500gb+ssd (512GB SSDs for $50 - 60)now.
> 
> I'm late to this thread, but I have a feeling a few people might not agree that EW is a "joke" sample company.



Indeed, it's a silly comment.


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## robgb (Jan 10, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Indeed, it's a silly comment.


True, but expecting someone to BUY the lesser product when it amounts to pretty much the same thing minus the extras isn't just a joke, it's outrageous.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 10, 2019)

robgb said:


> True, but expecting someone to BUY the lesser product when it amounts to pretty much the same thing minus the extras isn't just a joke, it's outrageous.



They are two separate products, period. One has 24 bits samples, the other 16 bit. But if you don't like their policy, don't patronize them.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 10, 2019)

And just one mic mix, yes?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 10, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Indeed, it's a silly comment.



Especially the criticism that their comprehensive, multi-mic string library takes up disk space because it's comprehensive and includes multiple mic positions.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 10, 2019)

Dominik Raab said:


> There seems to be an overall agreement that "we don't like EW" here. Meanwhile, my template is 60% EW at the very least, and whenever this comes up,



I don't know what percentage of my template is EW, but some of it is from their original orchestra. It still sounds really good.



> I'm sitting here shaking my head and munching popcorn.
> Want some, Nick? :emoji_popcorn:



Much appreciated, but I prefer to watch NBA basketball and do really good drugs.


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## Wall Art Music (Jan 10, 2019)

Wow. Surprised to see this thread still going strong.

My two cents. If one buys a big knife and doesn't like it. This doesn't mean he can go back to the store and demand he gets the smaller knife for free. Different products for different things.


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## germancomponist (Jan 10, 2019)

Nick, I am glad that you wrote what I thought. (Yeah yeah, the evil germancomponist ... .)


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jan 10, 2019)

They are up to PLAY 6 and there's no way to CC control anything nor create your own keyswitches and they produce marketing videos claiming "better singers"(...talk about patronising)

Yes they are a joke.

And congrats on all the Americans finding cheap SSDs. I have the unfortunate handicap of being born on a remote island where everything cost a lot more $$$.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jan 10, 2019)

Wall Art Music said:


> Wow. Surprised to see this thread still going strong.
> 
> My two cents. If one buys a big knife and doesn't like it. This doesn't mean he can go back to the store and demand he gets the smaller knife for free. Different products for different things.




So many people here seem to have a lot of trouble coming up with appropriate analogies.


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## sinkd (Jan 10, 2019)

I agree. It should be gratis to download Gold if you were an early adopter of Diamond. The problem is probably that the iLok licenses are all separate.

DS


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 10, 2019)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> They are up to PLAY 6 and there's no way to CC control anything .



Sure you can, just right click on a parameter and choose "MIDI Learn". You can assign them to the controllers of your choice.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jan 10, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Sure you can, just right click on a parameter and choose "MIDI Learn". You can assign them to the controllers of your choice.


Can you on the mixer?


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## NYC Composer (Jan 10, 2019)

Why did you choose to be born on a remote island instead of someplace where SSDs are reasonably priced? Bad judgement imo. Next time you’re born...


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## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 10, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Why did you choose to be born on a remote island instead of someplace where SSDs are reasonably priced? Bad judgement imo. Next time you’re born...



And I was born on that island too, yet I can find cheaper SSDs.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jan 10, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Why did you choose to be born on a remote island instead of someplace where SSDs are reasonably priced? Bad judgement imo. Next time you’re born...


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jan 10, 2019)

by the way I stopped caring about this months ago.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 10, 2019)

And yet, where you are is where you are-and you’re still here.

Oh btw-yeah, I agree-in a reasonable world, they’d give you Gold, but only if you were willing to give up your Diamond license.


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## Wall Art Music (Jan 10, 2019)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> So many people here seem to have a lot of trouble coming up with appropriate analogies.



It's like buying a giant watermelon and taking it home. Deciding you don't like, you go back to the supermarket and grab a smaller fruit, say an orange, and try to walk out of the store without paying. The manager stops you and says you have to pay for that orange, and you say "but I bought a bigger fruit so I should get this fruit for free." Manager tries to reason with you and say that's not how the world works. You continue to argue. Eventually he calls the police.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 10, 2019)

You had me at “giant watermelon.”


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jan 10, 2019)

Wall Art Music said:


> It's like buying a giant watermelon and taking it home. Deciding you don't like, you go back to the supermarket and grab a smaller fruit, say an orange, and try to walk out of the store without paying. The manager stops you and says you have to pay for that orange, and you say "but I bought a bigger fruit so I should get this fruit for free." Manager tries to reason with you and say that's not how the world works. You continue to argue. Eventually he calls the police.


how did I get into this mess? The manager has to die


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## JohnBMears (Jan 10, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Sure you can, just right click on a parameter and choose "MIDI Learn". You can assign them to the controllers of your choice.



Can you reassign cc assignments in Play?— like, change vibrato to cc02 instead of cc01 on powerful patches?


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## jcrosby (Jan 11, 2019)

You can also delete samples from articulations you don't use... (I did this with SD-3 on my laptop...) I keep an archive of the entire library on a platter drive then deleted unused articulations I didn't need on the laptop... Either way this is one upside to EW.. It's easy to slim a library down if needed... Just make sure you keep a backup on a cheap platter drive just in case.


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## robgb (Jan 11, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> They are two separate products, period. One has 24 bits samples, the other 16 bit. But if you don't like their policy, don't patronize them.


A bit disingenuous. The products are essentially the same except for bit depth, mic positions, and some articulations. He clearly bought the better version, so giving him the lesser version would not hurt them in the least and would be a sign of good customer service. And instead of complaining, he'd be singing their praises.


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## robgb (Jan 11, 2019)

Wall Art Music said:


> It's like buying a giant watermelon and taking it home. Deciding you don't like, you go back to the supermarket and grab a smaller fruit, say an orange, and try to walk out of the store without paying. The manager stops you and says you have to pay for that orange, and you say "but I bought a bigger fruit so I should get this fruit for free." Manager tries to reason with you and say that's not how the world works. You continue to argue. Eventually he calls the police.


Terrible analogy. It's more like buying an expensive jacket, realizing it's too big, and exchanging it for a smaller one. Most stores wouldn't hesitate to make the exchange.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jan 11, 2019)

jcrosby said:


> You can also delete samples from articulations you don't use... (I did this with SD-3 on my laptop...) I keep an archive of the entire library on a platter drive then deleted unused articulations I didn't need on the laptop... Either way this is one upside to EW.. It's easy to slim a library down if needed... Just make sure you keep a backup on a cheap platter drive just in case.



the hard drive delivery of HWOD was fantastic (and a recent steal).

instant backup and i can trim down on my m.2 if i need or want to - haven't yet.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 11, 2019)

JohnBMears said:


> Can you reassign cc assignments in Play?— like, change vibrato to cc02 instead of cc01 on powerful patches?



Sure, just reassign these in your DAW.


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## Wall Art Music (Jan 11, 2019)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> how did I get into this mess? The manager has to die



Be cool.... he's just doing his job.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 11, 2019)

robgb said:


> A bit disingenuous. The products are essentially the same except for bit depth, mic positions, and some articulations. He clearly bought the better version, so giving him the lesser version would not hurt them in the least and would be a sign of good customer service. And instead of complaining, he'd be singing their praises.



And except for the fact she doesn't have wheels, my grandmother is a bicycle

Look, you can argue all you want about how much good will it would bring EW and you might be right, but I worked for Doug Rogers part time for app. 6 years and let me tell you, he is good at math and has weighed the pros and cons before coming to the decisions he makes.

So you either accept it or you go to competitors. I believe that is called the free market


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## robgb (Jan 12, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> So you either accept it or you go to competitors. I believe that is called the free market


I'm certainly glad you aren't in charge of customer service. That's quite an attitude.

As for the math, it isn't like the guy is getting two for the price of one. He'd be getting less for the price of more.


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## robgb (Jan 12, 2019)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Sure, just reassign these in your DAW.


Exactly. Most DAWs have a Midi management plugin that will allow you to switch up midi values on a track.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 12, 2019)

robgb said:


> I'm certainly glad you aren't in charge of customer service. That's quite an attitude.
> 
> .



It’s a business. They make decisions and live with the consequences. Because I am not a customer service guy I don’t have to come on here and pretend otherwise.


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## robgb (Jan 12, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> It’s a business. They make decisions and live with the consequences. Because I am not a customer service guy I don’t have to come on here and pretend otherwise.


Yes, it's a business. And they would lose absolutely nothing by showing a bit of good will. But they'd gain a lot.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 12, 2019)

robgb said:


> Yes, it's a business. And they would lose absolutely nothing by showing a bit of good will. But they'd gain a lot.



Do you really think that after all the years EW has been one of the top developers in the business that you are going to make any points that Doug Rogers has not considered from every angle that can be considered?


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## robgb (Jan 12, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Do you really think that after all the years EW has been one of the top developers in the business that you are going to make any points that Doug Rogers has not considered from every angle that can be considered?


I can only speak from a customer's point of view. And I actually like good customer service. Imagine that.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 12, 2019)

As a major EW user, I think Doug Rogers makes a number of unfortunate decisions that do nothing to improve his business and may indeed detract from it. Successful? Yes. Could be even more successful with a bit of cost-free goodwill? Yes. 

OTOH, it’s his business and caveat emptor.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 12, 2019)

robgb said:


> I can only speak from a customer's point of view. And I actually like good customer service. Imagine that.



Fine, I have zero problem with that. Vote for the companies whose customer service you like with your wallet. Again, the free market will decide.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 12, 2019)

E


NYC Composer said:


> As a major EW user, I think Doug Rogers makes a number of unfortunate decisions that do nothing to improve his business and may indeed detract from it. Successful? Yes. Could be even more successful with a bit of cost-free goodwill? Yes.
> 
> OTOH, it’s his business and caveat emptor.



Even when I worked part time for EW I didn't agree with all his choices. But for any one of us to state categorically that they can say CC to call certainty that bc they know how he could be more successful is hubris. It could well be that by doing what some here suggest they would make less money. We don't see the books and we are not CPAs.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 12, 2019)

Screw it.


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## robgb (Jan 12, 2019)

I agree. Screw it.


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## Guy Rowland (Jan 13, 2019)

Not that anyone needs one more opinion here, but its the weekend so, well, screw it.

It would be simple for a Diamond license to also include access to the same slimmed-down products further down the tree, so thats not really a valid argument per se. It would be a simple demonstration of goodwill to do this, but EW are absolutely not the company to run to for simple demonstrations of goodwill.

It comes to this. Never buy EW at full price. Ever. Always wait for a sale, and then wait some more for a better sale.

Support isn't great. They won't add any more goodies to an existing product. They may fix issues, they may very well not. All of which makes waiting doubly good sense. After a couple of years you'll know exactly what you are getting, anything that might get fixed will have been fixed. You'll know that you can't modify the CCs, so find a way for your DAW to do so. If it can't, you're outta luck. You'll be able to find out all the other strengths and weaknesses too. You'll get it for a steal, among the very best buys in the business, but your purchase will be the beginning and the end of your relationship with EW regarding it.

Treat a new EW release as a pre-release.

The market may be brutal, but it is always right. According to the Libertarians. East West are the Libertarian dream.


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## djrustycans (Jan 13, 2019)

I haven’t read the whole thread but has it been mentioned that originally, EW were offering Diamond users a free additional license for installing on a second machine? Years back they gave me an extra license for Strings & Brass in Gold format because I wanted a version with a smaller footprint. Now that is goodwill!


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## djrustycans (Jan 13, 2019)

This was the response I got in 2013 after my polite request for the Gold licenses:

Hey David,

I have deposited the license(s) for you directly to your ilok account.
Please login to www.ilok.com, and head to the download licenses
section. You should see your license(s) waiting for you to download.
After you download them, you should be able to use your product(s).

Regards,
Joey Medina


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## Ashermusic (Jan 13, 2019)

Guy Rowland said:


> The market may be brutal, but it is always right. According to the Libertarians. East West are the Libertarian dream.



Please understand, I am _not_ a Libertarian and if I ruled the world it would _not_ be this way. But I believe in dealing with things as they _are_, not how I _wish_ they were, and that is simply the reality in my view.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 13, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Like yourself, my friend, I am well acquainted with hubris.





Ashermusic said:


> Please understand, I am _not_ a Libertarian and if I ruled the world it would _not_ be this way. But I believe in dealing with things as they _are_, not how I _wish_ they were, and that is simply the reality in my view.


If only the workers who fought and died in the 20th century for a decent wage and safer working conditions had possessed your degree of pragmatic acumen. The world would be even safer for oligarchs and corporations. 

Hyperbolic? Yes-but do you think Doug has enough money and would simply quit the field if sales took an abrupt downturn and the reason was inflexibility in business, or do you think he would adjust his model? You'd know better than I would.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 13, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> If only the workers who fought and died in the 20th century for a decent wage and safer working conditions had possessed your degree of pragmatic acumen. The world would be even safer for oligarchs and corporations.
> 
> Hyperbolic? Yes-but do you think Doug has enough money and would simply quit the field if sales took an abrupt downturn and the reason was inflexibility in business, or do you think he would adjust his model? You'd know better than I would.



Sample libraries and their purchases or non-purchases are not moral issues to me, like the ones you mention. On moral issues I have a _very_ different attitude. 

The day I stopped working for Doug I didn't know him much better that the day I started. But there were a few occasions when I suggested changes to policies where he said no and then later changed his mind.

So maybe yes, maybe no.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 13, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Sample libraries and their purchases or non-purchases are not moral issues to me, like the ones you mention. On moral issues I have a _very_ different attitude.


Well, you made what seemed to me to be a categorical pronouncement about your world view.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 13, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Well, you made what seemed to me to be a categorical pronouncement about your world view.



Well, then I was too cavalier about that and should have been more specific. Let's just say I pick my battles for things that I think are truly important.

And the policies of sample library developers ain't one of them


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