# Rethinking Miroslav Philharmonik 2 CE



## robgb

I picked this library up for $38 the other day (a steal) and have made some comments on other threads that it's only worth about that much. But after working with it for a couple days, I have to revise that comment.

Even the regular price of $149 is a steal for this library. While there are a number of minuses, there are a bigger number of pluses.

*PROS:*

*The sounds. *Beautifully recorded. Clean, raw, dry (if you prefer), with terrific sonic clarity. Here's a woodwind example of me just noodling around (bassoon):

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/miroslav-bassoon-test-001-mp3.14486/][/AUDIOPLUS]

*The number of instruments.* About 10 GB worth, including strings, brass, woodwinds, percussion, etc. You have a full orchestra here with numerous articulations.






*The FX.* A nice array of vintage and modern FX, including EQ, compression, modulations, filters, delay, reverb, and a ConvoRoom convolution reverb with some truly nice rooms that really bring life to the instrument.

*The Flexibility.* Each instrument has an Edit page that allows you to shape the sounds by adjusting a number of parameters and even mangle the sounds if you want to. There are polyphony adjustments, velocity ranges, ADSR adjustments, pitch, LFO...

*CC Control.* You can assign any CC you want to any parameter of an instrument. Pretty much endless control.

*Key Switch instruments*. Each instrument includes a Key Switch version, in case that's how you like to work. I personally like to load each articulation into a different channel and use @tack's Reaticulation for Reaper.

*Velocity control.* You can control the velocity trigger point on each instrument very easily. So, for example, if you load a sustain and a staccato patch into a multi, you can adjust those trigger points to change articulations depending on how hard or soft you hit a key.

*CONS:*

*Dynamics.* The library uses velocity dynamics only. Some people prefer this. I don't. I want to be able to use the mod wheel for dynamics to give me those nice, realistic swells.

I have, however, found a workaround to this that involves assigning CC1 to a couple of "presence" FX controls and the expression knob, and I have to say, to my ears, it sounds great:

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/miroslav-violins-test-001-mp3.14481/][/AUDIOPLUS]

*Legatos.* I have no idea what's going on here. The articulations labeled legato are either whacked out, poorly scripted instruments or you're given very short samples that sound as if they can only be used for legato runs. I'm not sure what the thinking was here, or if there's a trick to playing the legato patches, but I haven't figured it out yet and the manual doesn't really address it (as far as I can tell).

What the heck is this? (The short notes are the actual length of each note):

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/miroslav-violins-legato-test-001-mp3.14482/][/AUDIOPLUS]

Fortunately, for me, I find that my use of legato is pretty rare, so it isn't a huge issue. It just bugs me that they couldn't have at least provided some decent legato patches—or told me how to utilize the ones they included. Maybe the full version has better legato.

*Too few looping samples. *The long articulations seem to have one or two looping versions, marked LP, but to my mind all the longs should loop.

*Midi control minimum and maximum.* Update. After downloading the player for the umpteenth time, I managed to get the standalone and AU versions to work, but not the VSTi and VTS3i versions. I think I can live with that.

All that said, I'm really liking this library despite its flaws, thanks in large part to its flexibility. Plus I get a special little kick of satisfaction that I was able to pick it up for $38.

If that sale is still on, you night want to grab it.


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## Erick - BVA

Sounds cool. Although I've never been a fan of using lots of effects on Orchestral libraries, but maybe that's because I'm not really into the hybrid scene.


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## Quasar

I _almost_ got tempted from this review, but it looks like the $38 deal is over. Checked at JRR and Musician's Friend...


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## robgb

Quasar said:


> I _almost_ got tempted from this review, but it looks like the $38 deal is over. Checked at JRR and Musician's Friend...


Sorry to hear that. Maybe it'll happen again in the future. I'm finding sales are far more frequent these days than they used to be. Competition must be stiff.


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## premjj

robgb said:


> *The sounds. *Beautifully recorded. Clean, raw, dry (if you prefer), with terrific sonic clarity.



Thank you for sharing this. 

Would you also happen to own MP1 so as to be able compare the quality of patches that are common to both versions? 

I believe the IKM site says the entire MP1 was improved (doesn't say on what aspects) and reincluded in MP2.


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## robgb

premjj said:


> Would you also happen to own MP1 so as to be able compare the quality of patches that are common to both versions?


Unfortunately, no. The MP1 patches included are choirs, percussion, harps and guitars, and a number of ensembles like brass and brass+winds, that kind of thing. There's no way to directly compare the new violins, for example, to the old.


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## Quasar

robgb said:


> Unfortunately, no. The MP1 patches included are choirs, percussion, harps and guitars, and a number of ensembles like brass and brass+winds, that kind of thing. There's no way to directly compare the new violins, for example, to the old.


I do have V1, don't use it much. But it's not terrible, and the choirs are really extensive and sound very good. You just have to hunt and peck through all the various enunciations and articulations. One of my questions also is whether or not V2 (whether the light version or the full) brings much of anything new...

...And despite the notion that for $38 it may have been worth finding out, that it's not a "need" (I don't have any areas of virtual instrument need any more) was sort of the deal killer for me.


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## StatKsn

Legatos/intervals in Philharmonik 2 are impossible to use. They are unscripted short snippets from an interval performance. I even tried to reprogram the samples to Kontakt but, long story short, it doesn't work because the timbre is too different from regular patches (the intervals are apparently recorded with, for example, f non-vib ish performance while regular patches are mostly vib and has some attack dynamics baked in) and there is no way to meld them together. The way legato patches are programmed is also a big issue (RR alternating between upward legato and downward legato regardless of actual direction).

Recording-wise Philharmonik 2 is pretty good, a nice distinct character and it has some gems. But be warned that the programming quality is basically 2004. If you are fine with that, the library can be a hidden treasure trove.


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## AllanH

I'm pretty sure that the "legato" articulations are "runs" and meant to be played fast. They are most definitely not the same as legato patches in other instruments.

I agree with the beauty of the recordings.


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## AllanH

robgb said:


> ...
> 
> *CONS:*
> 
> *Dynamics.* The library uses velocity dynamics only. Some people prefer this. I don't. I want to be able to use the mod wheel for dynamics to give me those nice, realistic swells.
> 
> I have, however, found a workaround to this that involves assigning CC1 to a couple of "presence" FX controls and the expression knob, and I have to say, to my ears, it sounds great:
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/miroslav-violins-test-001-mp3.14481/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Your "review" matches my experience.

@robgb - are you willing to share how you accomplished this? This sounds excellent.

You've done better then I have on "CC dynamics simulation" and I'd certainly like to understand your approach.

For me, on Cubase 9.5 Pro on Windows, VST3 works just fine. It's what I've used for at least a year.


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## robgb

AllanH said:


> Your "review" matches my experience.
> 
> @robgb - are you willing to share how you accomplished this? This sounds excellent.
> 
> You've done better then I have on "CC dynamics simulation" and I'd certainly like to understand your approach.
> 
> For me, on Cubase 9.5 Pro on Windows, VST3 works just fine. It's what I've used for at least a year.


Sure. At some point I'll think I'll be doing a video tutorial on how to get the best out of Miroslav.

On the violins, for example, I used the LP sustains and added two FX to the instrument. Both Tone Control. First one is set to Tube1 and the second is set to Tube5. Then I married the Presence knob on each to CC1 using the learn button, and adjusted the EQ where it sounds good when the Presence is cranked all the way up. Then, back at the instrument macro level I married the Expression knob to, again, CC1. In this example I was unable to adjust the min and max percentages (thanks to the VST glitch), but those can be played with for optimal response.

It takes some playing around to get it to sound good, but when you find that sweet spot, make sure to save the instrument and the multi. In Reaper (don't remember if Cubase does this) I then save it as a track template and can call it up with a right click.


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## StatKsn

I too tried to drive either LP or EQ with expression, but there is some weird glitch I can't really explain in the VST. Might be the best to just use an external filter/EQ + volume combo. IIRC there was a fantastic sounding mockup using Philharmonik 1 with a gentle LP/EQ in this forum.

Also woodwinds in Philharmonik has some intricate awesomeness, I think partially due to baked-in performance.


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## robgb

Back on sale again:

https://www.jrrshop.com/ik-multimedia-miroslav-philharmonik-ce


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## DavidY

I had an IK account due to some freebie I'd downloaded in the past so they emailed me to say I could get this direct from them for the next day or two.
_
And_ it turned out that I had a 10 Euro credit with them (not sure how, but under their reward scheme) so I could get this for 30 Euros +VAT


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## sostenuto

robgb said:


> Back on sale again:
> 
> https://www.jrrshop.com/ik-multimedia-miroslav-philharmonik-ce



(assuming is never good) but ……. I read your other post(s) on this and will likely grab this deal. 
I assume miroslav-philharmonik still makes good sense in presence of KH_Diamond SO, NI_Essentials, NI_K5 Fact Lib, BO-I 1, The Orch, …


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## robgb

sostenuto said:


> (assuming is never good) but ……. I read your other post(s) on this and will likely grab this deal.
> I assume miroslav-philharmonik still makes good sense in presence of KH_Diamond SO, NI_Essentials, NI_K5 Fact Lib, BO-I 1, The Orch, …


If you already have those, Miroslav won't make good sense unless, like me, you're addicted to sample libraries. If you don't have any of those, for $39, you really can't go wrong. But remember the legatos suck, and you have to tweak and use CCs to get the most out of the library. But, really, $39 for a full orchestra? That's the price of a meal for two at a moderately priced restaurant.


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## sostenuto

robgb said:


> If you already have those, Miroslav won't make good sense unless, like me, you're addicted to sample libraries. If you don't have any of those, for $39, you really can't go wrong. But remember the legatos suck, and you have to tweak and use CCs to get the most out of the library. But, really, $39 for a full orchestra? That's the price of a meal for two at a moderately priced restaurant.



Ha! (or 1 at fav, small Italian chef's place) … _or comfy discount on L&S _
THX


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## premjj

Are there other forums where we can find more reviews of MP2? 

Not too many users here on this one (or so it appears).


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## Geoff Grace

StatKsn said:


> Recording-wise Philharmonik 2 is pretty good, a nice distinct character and it has some gems. But be warned that the programming quality is basically 2004. If you are fine with that, the library can be a hidden treasure trove.


Considering the original Miroslav Vitous Symphonic Orchestra Samples were released in the Akai S1000 format back in the '90s, having a programming quality from 2004 is a relatively good deal. It certainly beats having to hunt up a working S1000! (And of course, the current library is far less expensive than the original was then.)

Regardless, while I'm tempted for the nostalgia value—I bought and used the original one over twenty years ago—I'll probably pass for now.

Best,

Geoff


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## LamaRose

MP1 had some really nice string ensembles... overall a great purchase back in 2005. Don't own MP2, but based upon the samples I've heard since it's release, I wish they still offered the original version.


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## TheUnfinished

First ever orchestral sounds I owned, so I still have a very soft spot for it.

Some of the choir patches and woodwinds have really great tone.


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## sostenuto

Current Promo CE Price is great. No previous exposure, but noted that Miroslav Philharmonik 2 is 58GB versus 10GB for CE. I may take time to sort the 10GB portion, but trusting it is well worth its current cost …. .


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## David Cuny

Is CE 2 worth getting if I've got the full MP #1? I only use it for individual sounds in a pop context, I'm not looking to do full mockups or anything.


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## robgb

David Cuny said:


> Is CE 2 worth getting if I've got the full MP #1? I only use it for individual sounds in a pop context, I'm not looking to do full mockups or anything.


I honestly don't see the point of getting it if you have the full MP1. Others may disagree.


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## Leslie Fuller

I have the original MP1 (2 dvd) version which is only 32-bit, so this is definitely tempting at the current sale price!


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## sostenuto

Leslie Fuller said:


> I have the original MP1 (2 dvd) version which is only 32-bit, so this is definitely tempting at the current sale price!



THX! Can you comment on what is in CE @ 10GB vs full at 58GB.? As User of MP! (who feels this is tempting) .... sounds like the 10GB contains most of key content?


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## premjj

Leslie Fuller said:


> I have the original MP1 (2 dvd) version which is only 32-bit, so this is definitely tempting at the current sale price!



You can always import the MP1 content into ST3 format using ST3 free.

And ST3 is 64 bit.

Haven't tried it with ST3 free but conceptually speaking it should work.

(ST3 = SampleTank 3)


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## premjj

sostenuto said:


> THX! Can you comment on what is in CE @ 10GB vs full at 58GB.? As User of MP! (who feels this is tempting) .... sounds like the 10GB contains most of key content?



The detailed list of articulations for both versions is listed on the IKM website. Look for the 'Read more' link under MP2 CE text. Then navigate to the 'Sounds' Tab.


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## premjj

premjj said:


> The detailed list of articulations for both versions is listed on the IKM website. Look for the 'Read more' link under MP2 CE text.


 
Trying to paste the link but not getting the paste menu here, on my mobile for some reason.

Edit: Got it!!

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/mobile/products/philharmonik2ce/index.php?pp=philharmonik2ce-sounds


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## sostenuto

premjj said:


> Trying to paste the link but not getting the paste menu here, on my mobile for some reason.
> 
> Edit: Got it!! /QUOTE]
> 
> Thank-you much for extra effort!
> This provides precisely what I need.
> 
> Regards


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## robgb

premjj said:


> Trying to paste the link but not getting the paste menu here, on my mobile for some reason.
> 
> Edit: Got it!!
> 
> http://www.ikmultimedia.com/mobile/products/philharmonik2ce/index.php?pp=philharmonik2ce-sounds


Again, keep in mind that the legatos are worthless, and only selected long articulations actually loop.


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## Leslie Fuller

sostenuto said:


> THX! Can you comment on what is in CE @ 10GB vs full at 58GB.? As User of MP! (who feels this is tempting) .... sounds like the 10GB contains most of key content?



Can’t comment, sorry. My MP1 is the original “small” version, which is why I’m considering this MP2 CE version.


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## Leslie Fuller

premjj said:


> You can always import the MP1 content into ST3 format using ST3 free.
> 
> And ST3 is 64 bit.
> 
> Haven't tried it with ST3 free but conceptually speaking it should work.
> 
> (ST3 = SampleTank 3)



I’ve checked, and from what I’ve read, ST3 Free won’t import legacy content, only the “paid” version will do that.


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## premjj

sostenuto said:


> Thank-you much for extra effort!
> This provides precisely what I need.
> 
> Regards



It took me quite a while to figure out the link myself, when I did last week. It's not placed very intuitively on IK's site.

And I had a hunch that more people would be searching for the same details and probably without much success.


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## Leslie Fuller

Here’s a post from the IK Multimedia forum:

*Re: SampleTank 3 FREE ~ Legacy Instruments*


by *DarkStar* » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:26 pm
Yes it is by design, ST3 Free cannot Import legacy instruments.

it will only load "ST3 Free" instruments; the first one of which is the "Grand Piano 1 SE".


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## premjj

Leslie Fuller said:


> I’ve checked, and from what I’ve read, ST3 Free won’t import legacy content, only the “paid” version will do that.



I did do the import on ST3 but couldn't remember whether my ST3 was free or paid by then. Sorry about the mix-up.


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## Leslie Fuller

Thanks for the info, still_lives! I did notice it was an old post on the IK forum, but assumed it was still the case. I’ll re-download SampleTank 3 Free later tonight, and give the import a go. As mentioned above, I still only have the smaller MP1 version library, but that’s better than nothing.


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## Quasar

premjj said:


> You can always import the MP1 content into ST3 format using ST3 free.
> 
> And ST3 is 64 bit.
> 
> Haven't tried it with ST3 free but conceptually speaking it should work.
> 
> (ST3 = SampleTank 3)



Yup. I concluded that if you have v1 there is zero reason to get v2 CE, regardless of price. v1 with the 64b ST3 works just fine.


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## Leslie Fuller

still_lives said:


> This is no longer accurate. While it was initially true, they released an update some time ago that allows ST3 Free to import legacy libraries. I use SampleTron all the time with my free version of ST3. Notice the post you quoted is from 4 years ago. Since then, it has indeed changed, thankfully.



Glad to say that ST3 Free works as you advise, and I have just successfully imported my MP1 legacy library. It works fine, and I now have to familiarise myself with ST3 again starting tomorrow. Thanks again for the “heads-up” on this, @still_lives .


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## Leslie Fuller

Thanks for the further advice, @still_lives! 

Been busy with other things this morning (UK), so not been able to read up on SampleTank 3 yet, or look at the points you mention.


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