# Inquisitive german guy looking forward to learn.



## TheAttidude (Jul 6, 2011)

Hi everyone!
I'm from germany. Doing a lot of music over years in bands/solo projects and so on.
Soon after I began to compose for orchestra beside "normal" original songs, I got to know Finale Notepad, what I'm using until know.
My problem: The Midi Sounds are horrible!^^ Especially to be able to give musicians an audio file to hear how it should sound.
So I asked an established composer, how he created his demo files to make applications in his early years.
He told me the thing, I'm looking for is called "Midi Mockup" and told me to introduce me in this forum, because it would be the best way to get to the knowledge of it.
So: I'd like to learn how to make really good Midi Mockups.
For now I have no idea, which programs could be needed etc.
So, please help me 
Thank you in advance!


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## nikolas (Jul 6, 2011)

Hi and welcome.

just a very quick introduction to the world of 'midi mockups'.

MIDI does NOT contain any audio information. So what you're listening when you play a midi file (which is tiny in size, just a few kbs at best) is your soundcard creating the sounds and, yes, they are bad.

The good thing about midi is that it can be 'dressed' up with any sound. If you connect a synth (a physical instrument) it will respond to midi and your sounds will be coming out of that synth (as long as you do the right connections and establish them). If you link your midi file (through a sequencer) with a virtual instrument (which incidently is what VI in the link stands for! :D) you will be getting the sounds from there.

Since these VIs can have AMAZING sounds (just go to the listening area and you'll see), it's not hard to imagine what you can do.

So...

You need 2-3 programs to get started (in fact one could be just fine to get you started).

1. A sequencer. This is the software that will host everything inside. Imagine it like Windows for music. Everything you use will be inside that. There are various options but for now I would just suggest you google "repear" and download it.

2. VSTs. VST is a protocol of connection between plugins (virtual instruments for example) and your host (the sequencer). There are tons out there, some realistic (a violin), some weird (a synth), some outworldish (how an alien is playing a violin on his computer), or a choir, a child singing, pianos, drums, everything.

3. Then you need a way to input the midi information in your sequencer. You can do it via the piano roll in your sequencer, you can import midi files from outside the sequencer (for example files that you created with Finale Notepad), or you can play your tune(s) with a midi keyboard and have your sequencer recording.

Once you've done that you need to balance everything to sound right, mix them, master them and ... BINGO! You're done! :D

In all honesty it's not exactly easy, but nor is very hard to learn. As I said get repear and get going and playing. You'll soon start finding out thing. Then you can spend some money and get some sample libraries (libraries of samples and sounds). 

In any case we're all here to help.


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## TheAttidude (Jul 6, 2011)

You called it "Quick Introduction".^^
Thank you very much indeed for this detailed answer! 
I think now I can imagine what I have to do in general.
For now I'll get repear and experiment a bit with it.
Personally, I'm only looking for very realistic orchestra-sounds; no extra-ordinary synthesized sounds.^^
Are their any libraries etc. you could recommend?


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## nikolas (Jul 6, 2011)

You're right... I overdid it! :D But I swear I wanted to keep it short!  heh...

So here are some names to start googling.

At first you need to decide if you want a more general package (which would contain all the orchestral sounds), or other smaller packages and combine them.

The 'usual' suspects for whole packages are:
a. EastWest Quantum Leap (although they are in the process of heavily upgrading their packages, and the process is not complete right now, might take a couple of years to do everything).
b. VSL. Don't know much about them, but they are considered top (quality AND price wise at the moment). They have everything a man could ever wish for, even some completely obscure instruments ( which can come in handy though, as our member Guy Bacos has been showing us recently!  )
c. Kirk Hunter. Not sure what he's up recently either, but he had some orchestral packages.
and the very cheap but not too awful sounding, imo
d. Garritan Personal Orchestra (or GPO). It's so dirty cheap in comparison to the rest, so one could say it's a learning tool, or a tool for smaller computers, etc. It is better than midi though (and really guys? Don't get into this as an argument! :D).

Now, there are also separate packages that offer great sounding instruments, but not all, so you need to able to mix and match somehow (which is easier when everything comes out from the same box).

You get
a. LASS (for strings. Amazing imho)
b. The trumpet, the trombone, the saxophone from samplemodelling (Amazing imho again)
c. Westgate stuff, which although quite old still sounding nice I think
d. cinebrass, cinestrings, etc... 
and I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff... brrrr...

For pianos there's a wealth of choice, starting from Quantum Leap, to Garritan (a very good piano, not to be overshadowed by GPO), pianoteq, Ivory 2, Galaxy II and tons of others all with their own quircks.

And for a wealth of other sounds, not otherworldy, still physical, but somehow weird you can visit tonehammer! Great stuff, some choirs, some voices, some gnomes (? say what ?), etc...


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## germancomponist (Jul 6, 2011)

My tip to a beginner in this great VI world is to buy Native Instruments Kontakt Sampler. 

Its included library has many good orchestra sounds to begin with. And, when you have bought this sampler u can use so many good libraries with it then.


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## nikolas (Jul 6, 2011)

I think you're right in a sense, but on the other hand if one gets EWQL Orchestra, they don't need anything else. They get a sample player (PLAY and previously Kompakt) and a reverb on the sounds, so nothing else needed. While in the long run it may not be the best option, for a beginner it works like a treat (at least it did so in my case).


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## germancomponist (Jul 6, 2011)

Ah yes, Nikolas, for only orchestra instruments EWQLSO is fantastic to start with, and not only to start with. I love this library.


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## TheAttidude (Jul 10, 2011)

Thank you for every answer. 
But I have still one little question left according to programs, because I'd like to go in detail before I start with working which also means to start with paying. ;D
At the moment I'm focusing on pieces for a symphonic brass orchestra. So the VST Instruments I need are the "normal" woodwinds, the brass, and the typical percussion-things. But I've heard that it's difficult to find sounds for saxophones (in the different registers) or sounds for an euphonium (just for example to show the range of instruments I'd need for now).
Is there something you could advice especially to make something sound like a real brass orchestra?

Greetings,
Fabian


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