# Best software synth for learning how to synth



## Mornats

Hey,

I've been toying with the idea of buying a hardware synth so that I can learn how to create my own sounds but figured that I could do the learning on a (possibly) much cheaper software synth first.

I want to know where to start from the initial sound wave from the oscillators (apologies for getting any of this wrong by the way), through all the filters, ADSR, effects etc. so that I can aim for a sound in my head. The sounds I use at the moment tend to be those from the Massive preset packs from Leap Into the Void and The Unfinished. So distorted, modulated moving/shifting bassy pads and the like.

A couple of my tracks that feature the type of sounds I use at the moment:

First 45 seconds of this:


Most of this:


I'm not necessarily looking to buy a synth if I own one already. I have Komplete Ultimate 10 so have:

Massive
Absynth
Monark
FM8
Reaktor 5
Plus the others that come with it.

I'm also not, at this time, looking for a synth that I can grow into as this is primarily a synth just to learn the basics of synthing. I've got a fair few to grow into already and would consider Zebra/Omnisphere etc. for that when the time comes.

So to recap, is there a synth that you good folks would recommend for learning the basics on? Cheers!


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## Akarin

As you already have Massive, I'd do with that and spend my money on Syntorial. Best thing I've done for learning synth programming.


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## sostenuto

Your strong capabilities only allow me to mention some very positive remarks made by John Lehmkuhl (PluginGuru.com) _ in one or more of his site videos _ regarding Absynth 5. He also did interesting vids on Oscillators and Filters .. (page 4) which covered strong synths in those areas. His list of videos is 15 web pages but each has image and abbreviated description.

https://www.pluginguru.com/products/absynth-power-pack/ __
also on his Videos Page 13, John has (3) Absynth5 'QuikE' _ Absynth5 sessions that I found useful.
His (2) overviews with Brian Clevinger _ Absynth creator (Page 14) are worth watching _IMHO_.

John L has provided sooooo much help for years with Omnisphere tutorials and libraries, that I have not ventured far from Spectrasonics.
Zebra 2 remains a top interest, but only when I feel capable to diverge …. 
NI_K11U Synths are always on hand ....


*@ Ajkarin _ *agree !
'Skippy' Lehmkuhl has ventured there (Massive) as well with a Library and some video help.


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## R. Soul

+1 on Syntorial. It also comes with its own synth.


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## lastmessiah

Just use one that's native to your DAW. A lot of fuss is made over these big plugins like Zebra, Omnisphere, etc but if you know what you're doing you can achieve pretty much anything with native devices in Ableton, Logic, Cubase and most others. There's no reason to go searching for the "right" synth right now, especially when you're just learning subtractive synthesis.


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## Mornats

Thanks for the tips everyone. I've just spent 30-40 mins or so with the demo of Syntorial. It's done in a very good way where it's teaching you to recognise the sounds as they're affected by the controls. I love the challenges where you have to match a sound too. It's much more geared to getting that sound in your head tuned in inside the synth. Great recommendation!

I'll also check out those Pluginguru videos too.


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## Mornats

lastmessiah said:


> Just use one that's native to your DAW. A lot of fuss is made over these big plugins like Zebra, Omnisphere, etc but if you know what you're doing you can achieve pretty much anything with native devices in Ableton, Logic, Cubase and most others. There's no reason to go searching for the "right" synth right now, especially when you're just learning subtractive synthesis.



I'm using Reaper which has a somewhat basic synth! Even the demo tutorials in Syntorial have gone beyond its capabilities!


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## Akarin

Mornats said:


> Thanks for the tips everyone. I've just spent 30-40 mins or so with the demo of Syntorial. It's done in a very good way where it's teaching you to recognise the sounds as they're affected by the controls. I love the challenges where you have to match a sound too. It's much more geared to getting that sound in your head tuned in inside the synth. Great recommendation!
> 
> I'll also check out those Pluginguru videos too.



Happy you like Syntorial. It's the only one that "stuck" with me. As mentioned, there a synth provided with it that you can use. There's also the excellent and open-source Helm. But you have Massive and you can opt to have Syntorial lessons use Massive which is great (I used Serum myself but it's the same).


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## Quasar

Is Syntorial good for helping one learn how to use Zebra?


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## Jaap

Monark is really nice if you want to dip into a monophonic synth and can give some great insights. If you want to explore the things like Zebra a bit more, which is great for getting the ins and outs on how synthesizers work and which you can also port over to hardware synths is to give the mini version of Zebra a shot, Zebralette: https://u-he.com/products/zebralette/
And if you want to grab an anolog classic hardware synth later on, then you might want to check out Diva or the Repro1/5 combo first maybe as this gives you all the tools to learn the craft as well


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## antonyb

If you use Logic, ES2 and a few video tutorial (and manual handy) is great way to learn synth programming

Beyond the tool itself and how it does things the why you turn this button vs that button is helped by video tutorial I think and of course time in the shed

Enjoy!


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## Mornats

I actually have Zebra CM (https://u-he.com/products/zebracm/) which seems a little more capable than Zebralette. I'm a PC guy so don't have Logic (and regret having not grabbed Alchemy when it was allowed on PC still).

Thanks again everyone, your suggestions and advice are really appreciated!


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## Tiggerdyret

I'm generally not for analogue synths. They are expensive and not very pragmatic. You could consider mapping your soft synths to a controller. The Midi Fighter Twister is probably the most powerful controller for this purpose and if you take the time to set it up it will be very close to the real thing: https://store.djtechtools.com/products/midi-fighter-twister

+1 to Syntorial. It's great not only for learning what the parameters do, but training your ear for mixing as well. I started using it every day for a few weeks and suddenly I could hear compression attack and release times on 2-3 db compression. And I hadn't even reached the compression part of the tutorial yet. It also comes with it own synth.

You don't need to buy any synths, if you own Komplete Ultimate. Razor is pretty easy, clean and unique. Massive is advanced, aggressive and very deep. Form lets you do sample morphing. Absynth is great for atmospheric and evolving soundscapes. Monark is a freaking Mini Moog and it sounds very authentic! FM8 is one of the best FM synthesizers out there. Then there is Reaktor and itøs user libraries, which pretty much give you an unlimited amount of options. 
Out of all of those I'd recommend you start with Monark and Razor, since they are the simplest ones and well get the basics in place.
Groove.com has very deep tutorials of all of the Native Synths and probably whatever else you own. It's not free, but it blows any youtube tutorial out of the water and I think it is quite cheap. There are many good tutorials on all types of productions.

If you are looking for an easy synth to start out with try Serum. There is a 3 days trial. It is deep, the UI is easy, there are many many tutorials on it and it sounds freaking amazing. On top of that you can rent-to-own it at no extra cost and cancel your subscription at any time and start it again. No questions asked.


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## sostenuto

OP's K10 is hard to beat. Noticed Massive just updated today. All of the K10 Synths are right up there _even after_ addition of top options like Omni2 or Zebra2.


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## Tiggerdyret

sostenuto said:


> OP's K10 is hard to beat. Noticed Massive just updated today. All of the K10 Synths are right up there _even after_ addition of top options like Omni2 or Zebra2.


Yeah, it's just a minor fix, but they added "user analytics to help improve the product", which could mean they are ramping up for a serious update. Or it could just be data collecting for Massive X.


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## Mornats

That midi fighter twister (what a name!) looks pretty cool. I've got a Komplete Kontrol S61, Maschine MkII and a Maschine Jam so have lots of knob options, especially with the NI synths and anything with NKS. 

Thanks again for the help everyone. Looks like I don't need a new synth to learn on, just a little investment in learning tools


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## S.M Hassani

+1 for SERUM 

It's a powerful/affordable synth than can be a very effective training environment. Most other synths don't visualize the elements of the patch nearly as much. But SERUM's animated interface will help you develop ideas quickly, as you learn to think like a good sound designer. After that you can use that knowledge everywhere else.

Besides any synth that can make a patch like this from basic waveforms is certainly worth my time:

Beta Patch: SERUM Chello sequence, playing one note on keyboard, no audio samples or external FX.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/serum-chello-seq-mp3.14545/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## chrisphan

S.M Hassani said:


> +1 for SERUM
> 
> Beta Patch: SERUM Chello sequence, playing one note on keyboard, no audio samples or external FX.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/serum-chello-seq-mp3.14545/][/AUDIOPLUS]


Great sound


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## Mornats

Yeah that's seriously impressive!


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## Wally Garten

If you want to transition to a hardware synth later, I would start with Monark. It's got the simplest interface and is basically a replica of one of the synths that popularized subtractive synthesis. (Also, a nice, classic sound.)

Massive and Absynth are very powerful, but the interfaces are not, IMO, very intuitive, and they don't really resemble the layout you'll find on most hardware synths. (Same is true of many of the synths that come with Logic, except maybe Retro Synth.) FM8 is good for FM, but that's a completely different set of skills. Reaktor can be anything and everything (Monark and several of the other Komplete synths are built on it), so that might be a good next step after you master the basics.


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## chrisphan

S.M Hassani said:


> +1 for SERUM
> 
> It's a powerful/affordable synth than can be a very effective training environment. Most other synths don't visualize the elements of the patch nearly as much. But SERUM's animated interface will help you develop ideas quickly, as you learn to think like a good sound designer. After that you can use that knowledge everywhere else.
> 
> Besides any synth that can make a patch like this from basic waveforms is certainly worth my time:
> 
> Beta Patch: SERUM Chello sequence, playing one note on keyboard, no audio samples or external FX.
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/serum-chello-seq-mp3.14545/][/AUDIOPLUS]


So, I tried to open Serum to recreate that sound without success. Were you using wavetables there or a sample in the noise oscillator? Could you give any tips on how to achieve that ultra realistic sound? Thanks!


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## S.M Hassani

chrisphan said:


> Were you using wavetables there or a sample in the noise oscillator?



Glad you like it. No samples were used to make this sound. Just a pair of simple wavetables and some  tricks I'll reveal soon. 



chrisphan said:


> Could you give any tips on how to achieve that ultra realistic sound?



As part of an upcoming project, I will release a detailed video demonstrating how I made these patches. So stay tuned for that. Lots of exciting patches coming soon!


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## Tiggerdyret

S.M Hassani said:


> Glad you like it. No samples were used to make this sound. Just a pair of simple wavetables and some  tricks I'll reveal soon.
> 
> 
> 
> As part of an upcoming project, I will release a detailed video demonstrating how I made these patches. So stay tuned for that. Lots of exciting patches coming soon!


I'll be looking forward to that!


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## bill5

> Massive and Absynth are very powerful, but the interfaces are not, IMO, very intuitive, and they don't really resemble the layout you'll find on most hardware synths. (Same is true of many of the synths that come with Logic, except maybe Retro Synth.) FM8 is good for FM, but that's a completely different set of skills. Reaktor can be anything and everything (Monark and several of the other Komplete synths are built on it), so that might be a good next step after you master the basics.


Agree w/that. Remember the topic is good synths to learn on, not just good synths in general. NI has some of the most user-unfriendly stuff around IMO. They must have hired Charles Manson as their UI guy.


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## sostenuto

Omnisphere is powerful, versatile, enormous patch library, maybe largest 3rd Pty library selection.
Large, strong set of video tutorials, plus many more amazing videos from Omni masters like PluginGuru (John 'Skippy' Lehmkuhl). All at no cost and easy access.

What's not to like …. ( cost ?? ) Well, depends on how you value your time and talent. Once expert with Omnisphere, why change ??


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## dreamawake

Being in the same boat as the OP, I too (owning most of the NI synths), recently started looking at moving past the point where I'm using other people's presets and trying to understand how to make and program my own. I've tried to learn on the NI synths and they aren't necessarily intuitive to actually learn on (though they sound great when programmed by people who know what they're doing).

Helm (as mentioned above) is free (open source) and not a bad one to tinker around with. But after having downloaded the demo of FAW's Circle 2 and playing with it for about a day, I bought the license. That synth finally made sense to me on a level the others never did. Everything in one window, visually easy to see where everything is and the modulation is as simple as dragging colored circles that then allow you to see what's controlling what. 

Just wanted to share since I can relate to what you're looking to do.


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## Mornats

I'll take a look at Circle 2 to see if it clicks with me like it did with you.

I was looking at Rob Papan's Go 2 for the same reason - everything is on one page.

Omnisphere is on my radar but I suspect it's overkill for learning the basics of synthesis.


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## sostenuto

Repeating bit of earlier post, but we all 'learn' so differently. Some are terrific at twiddling knobs /sliders and picking up key info easily …. (kinda like amazing piano players who just play and learn.)
I'm a total left-brainer and need those many tutorials to understand fully. 

_Don't know of any synths with more learning tools than Omni2, but those may be somewhat unimportant for many. _


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## bill5

I'm excellent at twiddling knobs etc. Knowing wth I'm doing when I do that is another story  I have long searched for something which throws up a typical synth and explains in a very pragmatic, get-to-the-point way (without getting into a lot of theory or other parenthetical info that I could give a rat's behind about) how to use it, what the various controls do, give examples that are only long enough to demonstrate and no more, etc. 

Speaking of which, agree on Syntorial. That's the best I've seen so far, easily. I tried the demo and haven't bought yet but might. It moves a bit slowly/"chatty" at times, but the overall "academic" layout with the exercises/etc is great.


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## dreamawake

sostenuto said:


> Repeating bit of earlier post, but we all 'learn' so differently. Some are terrific at twiddling knobs /sliders and picking up key info easily …. (kinda like amazing piano players who just play and learn.)
> I'm a total left-brainer and need those many tutorials to understand fully.
> 
> _Don't know of any synths with more learning tools than Omni2, but those may be somewhat unimportant for many. _



I totally agree that we all learn differently and that some things like Omni2 are powerful and amazing (I own Omnisphere 2 and love it - I just don't understand how to make my own patches or how to program it). And not that those learning tools and powerful options don't matter or aren't important...

But when faced with this:





as I'm trying to learn about the basics of synthesis, it take some time to wrap my head around what everything does..I know many would disagree, but for me I want to understand what I'm doing before I dive into an interface like this. And I tend to be a visual learner.

However, when I'm looking at this:




every section makes sense and (at least to me) and I can visualize what everything is doing. So after taking some time learning how all these pieces fit together and how they all work, the Omnisphere 2 interface (and other synths like the NI stuff) finally starts to make more sense.

So that's why we are talking (not about the BEST synths) but the best ones to LEARN on. To each his/her own but if you are a visual learner, a synth like this might make more sense in the beginning.


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## Josh Richman

I’m in agreement with almost everything I’m reading in this thread. I’ll check out Syntorial. The stuff you have is plenty powerful. Native logic synths are quite good. But! (And I say this very carefully) I would suggest TAL U-NO-LX as fun intro synth. It’s really got me hooked because it isn’t intimidating, great easy to understand UI, nice presets, a pretty much 1to1 emulation of a real synth Roland Juno-60 and it sounds great.

That’s my two cents. I’m on the same journey into synths. I own most of the fancy stuff. NI, U-he is a great brand too. Though I’ve often been confused and turned off by the odd UIs of the big complicated synths defaulting to blindly tweaking presets. Anyways, I can’t recommend TAL U-NO-LX enough. It’s working for me as I plan to really understand it in its entirety then dive into the bigger ones.



https://tal-software.com/products/tal-u-no-lx

https://www.attackmagazine.com/reviews/gear-software/tal-u-no-lx/


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## Bansaw

I would say VPS Avenger. The interface and workflow is well designed. Enjoyable piece of software.


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## Carlos Lopez-Real

Akarin said:


> Happy you like Syntorial. It's the only one that "stuck" with me. As mentioned, there a synth provided with it that you can use. There's also the excellent and open-source Helm. But you have Massive and you can opt to have Syntorial lessons use Massive which is great (I used Serum myself but it's the same).



Another +1 for Syntorial here. I’m half way through the course and it’s been invaluable for learning the basics of synthesis. Plus it’s really expanded my aural awareness in ways I didn’t realise were so important.


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## bill5

dreamawake said:


> I totally agree that we all learn differently and that some things like Omni2 are powerful and amazing (I own Omnisphere 2 and love it - I just don't understand how to make my own patches or how to program it). And not that those learning tools and powerful options don't matter or aren't important...
> 
> But when faced with this:


What is that first synth? That's one of the worst UIs I've ever seen.


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## sostenuto

(_assuming your question is serious_) _ Spectrasonics *Omnisphere*: surely one of the most used by pros and non-pros alike, and one of most powerful when utilized to its potential.

@ dreamawake _ Understand your point(s) fully. Happy learning! 

(_in a perfect world, one could choose a Moog Sub 37 into Omnisphere 2.5 and have a truly cool solution_)


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## bill5

That's Omnisphere? Who'd they take UI lessons from, Avid? It may be a great soft synth in general, but I'm serious when I say IMO that's a poor UI.


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## sostenuto

No problem. Your ideal soft synth UI is ???

Is this an improvement ? 





One of my favs as well.


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## bill5

Not sure I'm following why there are 2 halves of 2 screens there, but yeah I'm a u-he fan.


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## sostenuto

bill5 said:


> Not sure I'm following why there are 2 halves of 2 screens there, but yeah I'm a u-he fan.



Ha! u-he's Repro-1 & 5 image and I just did scrnshot to post …. 
Was only poking OP for fun, as his intent is quite clear. 
Starting so early with Omnisphere, then Omni2, now 2.5, (also Trilian and StylusRMX) Spectrasonics GUI is so familiar. Most other sets of knobs, switches and sliders often seems confusing. 

I'm done. Enjoy!


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## Wes Antczak

Another one that nobody has mentioned is https://reveal-sound.com/plug-ins/spire (Spire). Which makes me think of a VST Virus. Just putting it out there since a lot of composers seem to use Virus as well.


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## Joe Maron

bill5 said:


> That's Omnisphere? Who'd they take UI lessons from, Avid? It may be a great soft synth in general, but I'm serious when I say IMO that's a poor UI.



No kidding! That UI kept me from buying it for a couple of years! Call me shallow, but I just couldn't get past the "boring" (IMHO, of course) look of Omnisphere. Circle 2 looks pretty cool, I'll have to check it out!


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## Reid Rosefelt

Mornats said:


> I'll take a look at Circle 2 to see if it clicks with me like it did with you.
> 
> I was looking at Rob Papan's Go 2 for the same reason - everything is on one page.
> 
> Omnisphere is on my radar but I suspect it's overkill for learning the basics of synthesis.


I really recommend Go2. EVERYTHING about the design of Go2 is about doing exactly what you want to do--to learn to program quickly and bring the sounds you hear in your head to life. The philosophy is "less is more." It is all about how to make it easy while still giving you a really big sound (as the presets prove).

In addition, it is fun to program, and there are things about it I mention below that you can learn in a few minutes. I got it free with Komplete, and I use it more than any of my new Komplete libraries because I love it so much.

IMHO cross off your list any synth that has a burgeoning business of people selling presets, ie Omnisphere, Massive, Synthmaster (original), Zebra. Not the best choice for learning synthesis. For an experienced sound designer having a quadrillion options is an opportunity. For a noob, it is totally overwhelming Even clones of classic Moog synths like Monark, were not designed specifically with the sole purpose of being easy to program by deliberating limiting your choices.

Go2 is easy because it is just about combining two sounds. Make a selection of one of the sounds and then decide how you want the second sound to either morph or mix with the first one or modulate it. Almost else is standard stuff-- filter, ADSR, etc not hard to learn.

Let me say two things about why I think Go2 is fun:

1) It has chords in its arpeggiator/sequencer. This isn't sound design, this is musical composition. If you can put together a combination of chords that you like, you have already made something that is unique to you and drives music that you want to play. Then it's just about finding the sound.

To make the sound have movement and complexity...

2) It has an XY pad that is programmable. Press record while you are moving the dot around. Press play and it will play (you can tell it to play it once or loop it or loop it back and forth). You don't even have to record a movement. Go2 comes with template movements, like a circle, square, and spiral. These can be edited. With a one click, you can add movement to your sound. Combine this with your mod and pitch wheel and you can get some beefy sounds out of this thing.

A lot of people just load presets and then alter the filter, resonance, and envelopes. But with this, you can just cycle through all the sounds in the first oscillator until you find something you like. So easy.

There is more to this, but you can go a long way with when you know very little. A little time with the manual will explain what all the other stuff does. 

Finally, this thing is set up beautifully for NKS. Much easier to use with an NI keyboard.


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## sostenuto

Everyone 'learns' in different ways. Some ( including me ) learn a great deal from listening to Presets from talented creators /developers; then checking what they did with Settings, etc., to see how they got there. 
(_apologies to OP for not making this point several posts ago, as it is key to my enthusiasm for synth I suggested_). 

To criticise this type of learning, and great synths with massive 3rd Pty libs, seems a bit restrictive.

As far as which learning synths are best ….. this list can be extensive and each have their strengths.

Posted proudly by a true Preset Junkie


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## Mornats

Haha, I'm a preset junkie too Sostenuto! I love the preset packs from The Unfinished and Leap Into the Void (for Massive and Absynth). I don't think those synths are the best to learns the basics on, based on the wonderful feedback I've received in this post although when the time comes to go more advanced then picking apart some of these presets will teach me a lot.

And thanks Tiger for the run-down on Go2. It does look like a great starting point (as does Syntorial). I'm taking a look at some of the freebies from Computer Music magazine at the moment, notably Thorn CM and Phonec CM but the beauty of Go2 is that it's only £42 :D


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## Reid Rosefelt

@sostenuto Don't get me wrong. I'm a preset junkie all my life, since I bought my first hardware synths in the 80s. And still am.  I only started with programming my own sounds from scratch when I got very simple synths on my iPad like Sunrizer. But Go2 is my favorite synth ever, as far as ease of programming goes. The way I see it, it is new, relatively few know it well compared to the usual suspects... and I want to spread the word! 

Let me give one example of what I'm talking about. On Synth Anthology 2, there are millions of ways to program the sub-oscillator. Infinite choices really. And a lot of people think a sample-based library like Synth Anthology is _too_ easy. Programming the sub in SA is simple. It's beautifully laid out with a great GUI and makes it super easy to make all these adjustments if you know what you're doing--but it's still a LOT of choices. 

On Go2 the sub-oscillator is a single knob. It is always tuned one octave below the main oscillator. Turn it all the way to the left and it's a sine wave. Turn it all the way to the right and it's a square waveform. Leave it in the middle and it turns the sub-oscillator off. That's it.


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## sostenuto

TigerTheFrog said:


> @sostenuto Don't get me wrong. I'm a preset junkie all my life, since I bought my first hardware synths in the 80s. And still am.  I only started with programming my own sounds from scratch when I got very simple synths on my iPad like Sunrizer. But Go2 is my favorite synth ever, as far as ease of programming goes. The way I see it, it is new, relatively few know it well compared to the usual suspects... and I want to spread the word! *****



Cool comments. I will take a serious look, even having a long list of other decent synths, as
Rob Papen is well respected. 
Interested to see @ Mornats mention of Dmitry Sches' Thorn. I picked up his Tantra long ago and it is great. His personal Support has also been notable. Full Demo avaiable too.

Regards


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## Reid Rosefelt

Computer Music gave out a free version of Thorn in the July issue. Not the full program, but still great.


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## Divico

I learned synth basics using the free Tyrell by u-He. By now there is a great manual for this plug


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## Wally Garten

Divico said:


> I learned synth basics using the free Tyrell by u-He. By now there is a great manual for this plug



Oh, yeah -- Tyrell has a _really_ great sound, IMO, and the interface is pretty simple (although you can get some complex modulation going). Also, it has a ton of nice, classic-sounding presets to learn from and deconstruct. I've used it all over the place.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

The best way to learn synthesis is by using a modular. Go soft if you can’t afford hardware.


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## rrichard63

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> The best way to learn synthesis is by using a modular. Go soft if you can’t afford hardware.


Ned, is there a specific software modular synth that you recommend as a learning tool? I think your general point is valid, but I also think that the OP and others who are trying to get started might appreciate a specific suggestion.


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## dreamawake

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> The best way to learn synthesis is by using a modular. Go soft if you can’t afford hardware.



Ned, any soft synth recommendations for that?


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## sostenuto

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> The best way to learn synthesis is by using a modular. Go soft if you can’t afford hardware.



Been pondering this for sometime; just to expand current knowledge..
Softube has been primary interest, but then there's VCV. 
Any advices ??

(sorry @ dreamawake …. must have been writing while you posted ...


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## dreamawake

sostenuto said:


> Been pondering this for sometime; just to expand current knowledge..
> Softube has been primary interest, but then there's VCV.
> Any advices ??
> 
> (sorry @ dreamawake …. must have been writing while you posted ...



No worries.. Just shows we've all been thinking it...just not sure which way to go with it.


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## Divico

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> The best way to learn synthesis is by using a modular. Go soft if you can’t afford hardware.


Thats a good one. For those being on a budget like me this one is a very versatile piece of synth https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2018/07/08/vcv-rack-vst-port-unofficial/


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## dreamawake

Mornats said:


> Haha, I'm a preset junkie too Sostenuto! I love the preset packs from The Unfinished and Leap Into the Void (for Massive and Absynth). I don't think those synths are the best to learns the basics on, based on the wonderful feedback I've received in this post although when the time comes to go more advanced then picking apart some of these presets will teach me a lot.
> 
> And thanks Tiger for the run-down on Go2. It does look like a great starting point (as does Syntorial). I'm taking a look at some of the freebies from Computer Music magazine at the moment, notably Thorn CM and Phonec CM but the beauty of Go2 is that it's only £42 :D



If you're looking for a freebie, then give Helm a try:





https://tytel.org/helm/


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## dreamawake

And I failed to mention, the website has a 32 page manual for the synth that explains the synth in great detail:
https://tytel.org/static/docs/helm_manual.pdf


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## Ned Bouhalassa

U-He’s Bazille, Softube Modular and Reaktor Blocks come to mind.


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## Ned Bouhalassa

Logic should have one built-in!!!


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## sostenuto

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> U-He’s Bazille, Softube Modular and Reaktor Blocks come to mind.



Bazille seems much better starting point from a cost standpoint. (have Repro-1 /5 and really enjoy).
Softube can add cost quickly at $30-$40-$50 per module ….. _could still be better long-run_. 
Have Reaktor6 and will spend more time ….

THX & Regards


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## sostenuto

Early *Bazille* Demo reminds me how early it was that I found patchcords (spaghetti) low on my preference list.
Sounds are great, and lots to learn. I think 'soft' modular is gonna win …. even at more $$$$$.


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## HeliaVox

Just chiming in here. Audio Damage has a synth called Basic. It's pretty nifty.


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## dreamawake

In the continuing tradition of adding to what we come across here...I found a few videos online posted by Berklee Music about 6 years ago. There are 4 videos total that go through the basic of synthesis and they include a very simple synth to download and follow along. 

The synth is written in Max MSP 5 and although the date says it was created in 2012, I had no problem running it in Windows 10. The interesting window in the synth is the oscilloscope window that shows you what the waveform is doing and as you change the parameters and such, you can see how it affects the waveform and in return, the sound.

http://www.synthbasics.com/home

They do have a Mac version too but I can't say if it still works with the current OS or not...the Windows one does with Windows 7/8/10.

Thought someone might find this useful.

Dreamawake


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## whiskers

TigerTheFrog said:


> @sostenuto Don't get me wrong. I'm a preset junkie all my life, since I bought my first hardware synths in the 80s. And still am.  I only started with programming my own sounds from scratch when I got very simple synths on my iPad like Sunrizer. But Go2 is my favorite synth ever, as far as ease of programming goes. The way I see it, it is new, relatively few know it well compared to the usual suspects... and I want to spread the word!
> 
> Let me give one example of what I'm talking about. On Synth Anthology 2, there are millions of ways to program the sub-oscillator. Infinite choices really. And a lot of people think a sample-based library like Synth Anthology is _too_ easy. Programming the sub in SA is simple. It's beautifully laid out with a great GUI and makes it super easy to make all these adjustments if you know what you're doing--but it's still a LOT of choices.
> 
> On Go2 the sub-oscillator is a single knob. It is always tuned one octave below the main oscillator. Turn it all the way to the left and it's a sine wave. Turn it all the way to the right and it's a square waveform. Leave it in the middle and it turns the sub-oscillator off. That's it.


apologies for the necro-bump, but thanks for this bit. I was on the fence about whether to keep or sell G02, you might have just pushed me over the edge to keep.

Any other thoughts on it? (I have Omni & Massive rn)


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## sostenuto

whiskers said:


> apologies for the necro-bump, but thanks for this bit. I was on the fence about whether to keep or sell G02, you might have just pushed me over the edge to keep.
> 
> Any other thoughts on it? (I have Omni & Massive rn)



Go2 has a Trial and always willing to lear and experiment.
_btw_ .... just saw and downloaded Arturia Pigments ....

https://www.arturia.com/products/analog-classics/pigments/overview#en

Have an absurd VI Synth inventory: Massive, Absynth 5, Repro 1 /5, Spire, SynthMaster /SynthMaster ONE, Thorn, Iris 2, Hybrid, misc.....

and yet missing some very well-respected ones: Serum, Diva, Zebra 2, more ......

L_ike you, one of these will 'click' in terms of feeling easier to interact with and finally 'learn' synthesis /synthesizers. Working from Presets to figure out controls and settings has surely not worked as well as I had hoped. 

Good to see your post !

Regards_


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## Reid Rosefelt

whiskers said:


> apologies for the necro-bump, but thanks for this bit. I was on the fence about whether to keep or sell G02, you might have just pushed me over the edge to keep.
> 
> Any other thoughts on it? (I have Omni & Massive rn)


Rob Papen's Go2 was not designed to compete with any of the more full-featured synths Rob Papen has made before. It is absolutely not to be compared with Serum, Diva, Zebra 2, or anything on that level. 

In a similar way, the 12-String in Sonuscore's Origins 12-String & Balaika is not intended to be compared with the 12-Strings from Orange Tree Samples or Ample Sound. But you might enjoy playing with the Origins instrument anyway.

Go2 doesn't try to do what the big boys can do. I find it a lot of fun, and I really like the sounds I can make with it. Unlike Massive and Omnisphere, I never use any of the presets. For me, that would defeat the whole purpose.


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## whiskers

TigerTheFrog said:


> Rob Papen's Go2 was not designed to compete with any of the more full-featured synths Rob Papen has made before. It is absolutely not to be compared with Serum, Diva, Zebra 2, or anything on that level.
> 
> In a similar way, the 12-String in Sonuscore's Origins 12-String & Balaika is not intended to be compared with the 12-Strings from Orange Tree Samples or Ample Sound. But you might enjoy playing with the Origins instrument anyway.
> 
> Go2 doesn't try to do what the big boys can do. I find it a lot of fun, and I really like the sounds I can make with it. Unlike Massive and Omnisphere, I never use any of the presets. For me, that would defeat the whole purpose.


Thanks for the thoughts man. Right now I just use presets, but I'm new to synths. Got syntorial over the holidays on sale, so hope to use that soon. I like flexibility, sounds like Go2 is limited on that, but also seems like a lot easier of an interface to use.


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## Reid Rosefelt

I've been exploring the new Arturia synth, Pigments, which I also think is a good one for people new to synth programming. Arturia claims that they have designed it using all that they have learned from modeling so many classic synths.

Pigments is easier to learn because it has a unique user interface that always shows you everything that's going on in the mod matrix. That's where the action is, and it's very helpful to have a window on everything that's happening there.

Around 11 minutes into the video below, it gets into Pigment's "beginner tools." They include a built-in tutorial. It actually teaches you how to use it.


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## sostenuto

Have the Demo, enjoying YT Vids, and hoping for some additional impressions.
My mainstream synth is Omni 2.5, but Pigments will definitely help my synth learning.

_Questions relate to Pigments components. _ How do you synth gurus rate its _Oscillators, Filters, etc, etc._ compared to your preferred tools ?? As a longtime Omni User, I often read or hear of preferences for various components of Diva, Serum,
Zebra2, others. How does Pigments seem to measure up ??


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## whiskers

sostenuto said:


> Have the Demo, enjoying YT Vids, and hoping for some additional impressions.
> My mainstream synth is Omni 2.5, but Pigments will definitely help my synth learning.
> 
> _Questions relate to Pigments components. _ How do you synth gurus rate its Oscillators, Filters, etc, etc. against your preferred tools ?? As a longtime Omni User, I often read or hear of preferences for various components of Diva, Serum,
> Zebra2, others. How does Pigments seem to measure up ??


Curious on this as well. Omni 2.5 is my go to as well. For learning and sound design, curious how this stacks up to the competition.


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## sostenuto

Sent note to John Lehmkuhl (Pluginguru.com) re. Pigments.
Just noticed that his YT Livestream today (noon: USA_PST) will include a new synth .... wonder if it is Pigments ?
(edit) _Looks like will be new version of u-he HIVE, Dune 3, and Pigments. _

Amazing number of Euro watchers every week ! Lots of live chat going on al thru ....

(3) great synths, but imho, Pigments is waay ahead for learning …. yet brand new in design and features.


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## Deelanee Orchestra

I would also like to get into synth programming more seriously, but with a soft synth that would be both easy to learn and complex enough to sustain long-term use. I like Arturia's stuff very much and Pigments intrigues me very much, but it being so new, I wonder if I would find enough resources to learn how to use it and even presets banks.


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## sostenuto

You Tube should help. Maybe you saw this, as it caught my attention immediately.


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## Deelanee Orchestra

It was previously posted in this thread and I watched it. It looks promising, but I think I will need a structured way to learn, such as an online class. I've started one on Kadenze not a couple of months ago, but it uses Strobe2, which I don't intend to buy in the long run. Then, I decided it would be a good idea to get Reaktor and enlist their class on it, but I haven't scraped enough money for it yet.


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## Parsifal666

Try going to ADSR and taking all the tutorials on Zebra. It fits your qualifications.


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## sostenuto

Also …. Omnisphere has amazing tutorial resources on Spectrasonics site …. yet surpassed in many ways by those of Pluginguru.com (John Lehmkuhl) on his Site + YT. His 'LiveStreams' continue apprx every Saturday and run close to two hours. They are not as structured as formal tutorials, but depth of coverage is staggering …. imho.

(edit) Long-term (_or short_), ability to control (v2.5) from range of top hardware synths is quite a plus …..


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## Reid Rosefelt

Elaine Gallant said:


> It was previously posted in this thread and I watched it. It looks promising, but I think I will need a structured way to learn, such as an online class. I've started one on Kadenze not a couple of months ago, but it uses Strobe2, which I don't intend to buy in the long run. Then, I decided it would be a good idea to get Reaktor and enlist their class on it, but I haven't scraped enough money for it yet.


If you're really starting from zero on synthesis, I recommend this six-part free "Intro to Synthesis" course:
https://reverb.com/news/videos-reverb-launches-intro-to-synthesis-tutorial-series
But you can find other freebie courses by searching on YouTube.

IMHO you should begin with a simple. subtractive synth. Lots of free ones are available. If you have an iPad, there are some great ones for $5 or $10. I like u-he's free Podolski because it has one oscillator, one filter, one ADSR envelope, and an arp/sequencer. Everybody will have an opinion, but truly it doesn't matter. You can learn on any simple subtractive synth.

When you master these concepts, it's not so tough to move on to synths with multiple oscillators, filters, LFOS, etc. And eventually, you can explore other kinds of synthesis, like FM, additive, and wavetable. But start with subtractive. That's like the ABCs.

That's my advice. Walk before you run. Once you learn those basic concepts, you can quickly graduate to program anything.

When I say that synths like Pigments and Go2 are "easier" to learn, that's because I already understand the general concepts. I can take one look at them and know how to use them. I can't take one look at Zebra and start programming. I would have to do some serious study, because that thing is awesome.


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## Reid Rosefelt

The VHS video quality and the instructor's haircut in these videos may be dated, but the information is still good. You can learn a lot about synthesis from these videos in two hours.


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## Rapollo

I have Omnisphere and the Komplete Ultimate synths, yet I only use the former in any capacity. How would people rate Zebra for learning synthesis with? I've already got the basic's down with the demo and enjoy the sound hugely. Also is the HZ version just a flat upgrade to it or is it a different sounding instance entirely? The enticement with Zebra despite a big learning curve is that I would never "upgrade" from it per say and it's the most versatile out there.


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## sostenuto

Chicken and egg syndrome. Tough to pick preferred synth with no 'basic' knowledge. Individual time, effort, resources are not 'free' and must then refocus to VI Synth of choice. 

Omnisphere /2 /2.5 not only has vast tutorial support, yet also incredible 3rd Pty material beyond.
As mentioned earlier; Pluginguru.com (John Lehmkuhl) has YT site with years of videos …… covering most top VI Synths and their key capabilities …… in context with Omni. These include Serum, Massive, Absynth5, Diva, Hive, and brief focus on many others. 

One can propose that similar time spent with these, cost-free resources, can be very effective in learning the same 'basic' building blocks as covered in older self-teaching video series …. imho.

No cost … other than 'valuable' individual time and effort to check this out and decide.


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## Deelanee Orchestra

Found these on YT, pretty well explained, and the guy has a better haircut! 


I did read somewhere Justin Delay is one of the most influential music connoisseurs of today, along with Andrew Huang and a few others I don't remember.


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## AlexRuger

I learned on Massive. Great place to start. There's a good chance you already own it, and if not it's relatively cheap. Simple layout, but deep modulation possibilities. Tons of waveforms, but you don't need to deal with them if you don't want -- the ones we all know and love are immediately available. Plus, it has an old community built around it.

If 5 pages hasn't been enough to figure out a good place to start, I'd say just get started here! :D


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## sostenuto

Massive .. a great one and Massive X soon. 
I have similar respect for Absynth5, as well.
Both are solid alternatives to mainstream Omnisphere 2.5 

Next add? …. Arturia Pigments


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## Deelanee Orchestra

I don‘t have Massive or Absynth 5 for that matter. I had somehow missed the news on Massive X and that looks very promising too, kind of best of both worlds: some modularity Reaktor Blocks style but more user-friendly.

I have an "interesting" Arp 2600 emulation (TimewARP) and I know I haven't even scratched the surface of what it can do, but it's a tough place to start with patching cables and all.


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## Mornats

AlexRuger said:


> I learned on Massive. Great place to start. There's a good chance you already own it, and if not it's relatively cheap. Simple layout, but deep modulation possibilities. Tons of waveforms, but you don't need to deal with them if you don't want -- the ones we all know and love are immediately available. Plus, it has an old community built around it.
> 
> If 5 pages hasn't been enough to figure out a good place to start, I'd say just get started here! :D



That's very interesting Alex as it was me being overwhelmed by Massive that prompted me to ask this question in the first place! I have to say that this has been a hugely informational conversation and I thank everyone for their contributions.


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## sostenuto

Mornats said:


> That's very interesting Alex as it was me being overwhelmed by Massive that prompted me to ask this question in the first place! I have to say that this has been a hugely informational conversation and I thank everyone for their contributions.



Great Thread, OP … THX !!
At this point, have you found a Synth solution which gets closest to your needs ?


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## Mornats

sostenuto said:


> Great Thread, OP … THX !!
> At this point, have you found a Synth solution which gets closest to your needs ?



I'd considered just buying a Behringer Neutron and sampling it but the time taken to do that would take away from music making too much.

So I've decided to be a preset junkie for the more complex synths like Massive and Absynth and play around with some simpler ones. I'm trying not to buy any more but I subscribe to Computer Music mag and they have a nice one called Phonic CM which I'm liking. Still, I'm tempted by Go2...


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## S.M Hassani

chrisphan said:


> Great sound





Mornats said:


> Yeah that's seriously impressive!





chrisphan said:


> Could you give any tips on how to achieve that ultra realistic sound?





Tiggerdyret said:


> I'll be looking forward to that!



It’s Here!

Check it out: CodeUltra Sounds - Arkeon for SERUM


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## Mornats

Hey folks, thought I'd pop an update on here. I've been playing with a few things over the past few months. First off was Massive X which I've had some fun with although I'm kinda still turning knobs and hoping for the best. I'm learning bits here and there which is good.

On the hardware front, I happened to be in the vicinity of the Absolute Music store here in the UK over the summer. I had a go on a fair few synths and the one that captured my attention was the Korg Minilogue XD. I could turn the dials and just get great sounds out of it no matter what I did. It's pricier than I'd like it to be but it's top of my list of hardware synths for sure. I also tried a Korg Volca Keys after watching a few YouTube videos where it sounded great. When I tried one for real though it just sounded fuzzy and weak and fiddly to use.

So off the back of playing with the Minilogue XD some more I happened across an upgrade offer for AAS Ultra Analogue VA-2. I've noticed that the controls look more familiar now that I've played with a Minilogue XD and I think the sounds are in the same ballpark. So that's the one I'm going to learn from so I can save up for a hardware synth and know how to get the best out of it.


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