# Staying Healthy (and trying not to die)



## robgb (Sep 21, 2021)

Hey guys. Last week I had just recently finished a book and was doing what I love most — working with sample libraries — when right in the middle of a new melody I was hit by a sudden twinge of pain in my groin that soon radiated to my lower back. During the next fifteen minutes, that pain grew to be the most excruciating pain you could ever imagine. The kind of pain I would not wish on anyone.

I was rushed to the hospital, transferred to a bigger hospital, and when they finally saw what was causing the problem, I under went two operations in three days and spent of total of five days battling pain. The culprit? A giant kidney stone. So large it would have been impossible to pass.

I have since discovered that kidney stones are most often caused by way too much salt in our diets. I am a bonifide saltaholic. I salt things that have already been salted and have been doing that for years. So I'm just here to say I'm finally home and on the mend, but to warn everyone to be very, very careful about what you eat. It can fucking kill you. And if it doesn't, it can certainly make you miserable for an extended period of time.

End of public service announcement.


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## Saxer (Sep 21, 2021)

Ouch! That's really hard! Hope you get well soon!


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## Gingerbread (Sep 21, 2021)

Wow, that's awful, glad you got treated and recovered. Drinking a good amount of water daily also greatly helps prevent kidney stones. At least 3 quarts a day. Many people are chronically under-hydrated, and don't even realize it.


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## SlHarder (Sep 21, 2021)

If you see color then you're not drinking enough water. If only the rest of life was so simple.


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## David Cuny (Sep 21, 2021)

robgb said:


> During the next fifteen minutes, that pain grew to be the most excruciating pain you could ever imagine. The kind of pain I would not wish on anyone.


I've heard kidney stones can rate an 11 on the pain scale. 

A couple years ago I had diverticulitis. I wasn't sure _what_ it was when I first experienced it earlier in the day, but it hurt a lot, and was getting worse. A quick check on the internet seemed to rule out appendicitis - it was on the wrong side - but it was clear I was going to need medical intervention.

I foolishly insisted to my wife that _I_ could drive myself to the hospital - it's only four minutes away - because I'm stupid. I only made it halfway before the stabbing pain in my gut became too intense and I pulled over and let her drive.

Once in the Emergency Room, I ended up writhing on the floor with the worst pain I'd ever experienced. The hospital staff unsympathetically told me to get in the wheelchair, but my body just wasn't complying.

In their defense, I'm sure they thought I was there just to score some sweet pain meds. (Well, _obviously_ I wanted pain meds. You know what I mean.)

Gasping for breath and trying to breathe through the pain, my one consoling thought was - I kid you not - _"Thank God it's not a kidney stone, or it would be *really* bad."_

I'm glad you're doing better.


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## ptram (Sep 21, 2021)

Welcome back! And take your diet with a grain of salt!

Paolo


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## doctoremmet (Sep 21, 2021)

Hey Rob… sad to hear you went through this, and at the same time I an happy that you’re better now! I’ve spent a lot of time in hospitals in the recent past as well and can only say I very much agree with your public service announcement. Thanks for sharing pal! And most of all: get better soon!


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## CGR (Sep 22, 2021)

robgb said:


> Hey guys. Last week I had just recently finished a book and was doing what I love most — working with sample libraries — when right in the middle of a new melody I was hit by a sudden twinge of pain in my groin that soon radiated to my lower back. During the next fifteen minutes, that pain grew to be the most excruciating pain you could ever imagine. The kind of pain I would not wish on anyone.
> 
> I was rushed to the hospital, transferred to a bigger hospital, and when they finally saw what was causing the problem, I under went two operations in three days and spent of total of five days battling pain. The culprit? A giant kidney stone. So large it would have been impossible to pass.
> 
> ...


Wow Rob - glad you're on the way back to health. I experienced a kidney stone about 5 years ago which also required an overnight hospital stay. The pain was excruciating – in fact the female head nurse compared it to childbirth contractions. So drink up everyone & stay hydrated – not being diligent with my daily water intake was my downfall.


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## lychee (Sep 22, 2021)

Sad and happy news at the same time, sad for this episode and happy that you are better.
Thank you for your advice which is unfortunately little listened to until it happens to us.
Not eating too sweet, too salty, too fatty ... are essential things for good health.
And as said above I am the type to drink too little, almost not at all, hope that your case brings me back on the right track.
In any case, good recovery.


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## Daniel (Sep 22, 2021)

Since I had high blood pressure now I am reducing salt. I am hoping you getting better and better, Rob.


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## Alex Fraser (Sep 22, 2021)

Wow, thanks for sharing Rob. That should be a wake-up call for many of us. Glad you're on the mend.


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## dcoscina (Sep 22, 2021)

Hope you are doing better now Rob. A doctor friend who has treated women for kidney stones but who had also had given birth related that her patients said the kidney stones were worse than childbirth. That’s saying a lot! Sorry to hear you had experienced this, but thanks for your post reminding us all to look after ourselves.

A few years ago I suffered from chronic pain in my upper right abdomen (usually these attacks would happen at night). They would last anywhere from one hour to 3 hours. I went to the doctor and after of years of suffering from this odd occurrence that would spring up randomly, I was told I had gallstones and needed surgery to have the gallbladder removed. While not as painful as kidney stones, it wasn’t pleasant when I got these attacks.


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## MartinH. (Sep 22, 2021)

Good to hear you survived! Everyone I know who had kidney stones said it was the worst pain they ever experienced. Must be hell.



robgb said:


> I have since discovered that kidney stones are most often caused by way too much salt in our diets. I am a bonifide saltaholic. I salt things that have already been salted and have been doing that for years. So I'm just here to say I'm finally home and on the mend, but to warn everyone to be very, very careful about what you eat. It can fucking kill you. And if it doesn't, it can certainly make you miserable for an extended period of time.



First time I hear of salt alone causing kidney stones. Isn't it the _balance _between water intake and the intake of salt and other things that get excreted via urine? How much water were you drinking on an average day?

I'm a saltaholic too, but I also drink large amounts of water. The one person I know in my age group that had kidney stones eats very(!) little salt, but also drank too little and had other risk factors.


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## robgb (Sep 22, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Good to hear you survived! Everyone I know who had kidney stones said it was the worst pain they ever experienced. Must be hell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's possible that huge amounts of water might mitigate the effects of salt somewhat, but the recommended amount of sodium daily is about a teaspoon. I was probably consuming three times that much. As for hydration, I've always been fairly well hydrated, but clearly not hydrated enough.


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## el-bo (Sep 22, 2021)

MartinH. said:


> Isn't it the _balance _between water intake and the intake of salt and other things that get excreted via urine?


What is needed to balance out salt is potassium. I believe (would have to check) that the ratio of potassium to salt should be between 2 and 4:1. The issue isn't just that people eat too much sodium, it's that they also eat too little potassium. And seeing as potassium is mainly found in plant foods, there is a tendency for many to miss out. Add the over-use of salt in processed foods, to the fact that people are pretty dehydrated overall, AND also take in caffeinated beverages (Diuretics).

The solution isn't even to just chug down tons of water as that can flush out electrolytes, further increasing the imbalance in the body.

All fun & games


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## Evans (Sep 22, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> A doctor friend who has treated women for kidney stones but who had also had given birth related that her patients said the kidney stones were worse than childbirth.


My grandmother had a lot of stones (and five kids) and said this several times. She wasn't sure if it was the raw, physical mechanics of it or something due to hormones during childbirth, but her general stance was that kidney stones were far worse for her.


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## el-bo (Sep 22, 2021)

Glad the OP has got it sorted out, and is on the mend. I've not had stones, but remember an ol' mate of mine experiencing excruciating pain with them. Nasty stuff.


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## marclawsonmusic (Sep 22, 2021)

Very sorry to hear it, Rob. But glad you are on the mend now. I'm going for an extra glass of water now - thanks for the PSA!


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## NekujaK (Sep 22, 2021)

Sorry to hear about your ordeal, Rob. Glad you're on the mend now.

I'm no stranger to kidney stones, having 3 separate bouts in the last 20 years that required trips to the ER, but thankfully no surgery. Here are a few things I've learned along the way:

- Hydration is definitely key to prevention, moreso than diet itself. The idea is to have a high ratio of fluid to minerals in your kidneys so the minerals you consume (like sodium) are continually flushed out and don't have the opportunity to crystalize and form into stones. So while cutting down on sodium is definitely helpful, increasing water consumption can help even more. (All my life, I've been a notorious under-hydrator, avoiding water even when playing sports. It finally caught up to me, and I'm surprised I didn't have stones earlier in my life. I'm still struggling to get in the habit of drinking enough water, hence my repeat episodes.)

- There are different types of stones caused by different sources. Calcium oxalate are the most common and things like protein and sodium contribute to their forming. By analyzing the stone, they can identify the source and recommend the correct steps for prevention.

- Whether its metabolism or genetics or who knows what, some people's bodies are known to be "stone producers". My doctor tells me one of his patients has kidney stone episodes as much as 3 times a year, and it's not just one stone at a time, but multiple! I can't imagine what that must be like, but like with most health related issues, everyone's bodies are slightly different, and they also change over time.

Take care of those kidneys and stay healthy everyone!


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## M_Helder (Sep 22, 2021)

Get well soon, Rob!

I should go grab a drink…


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## bill5 (Sep 23, 2021)

I've had both a kidney stone (on Christmas night, thanks a lot) and a heart attack (the night before Easter, thanks again...OK OK I'll go to church more!). The heart attack was obviously far more dangerous, and kidney stones are very rarely fatal or even close, but the kidney stone was far FAR FAR more painful. And yes I was a heavy salter too. No more. I didn't really use table salt though, it was just all the salt in things that I had no idea were so salty (how salty something tastes and is aren't always the same). It isn't ALL about salt or hydration but that does help. Sorry to hear rob, good post though.


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## Alchemedia (Sep 23, 2021)

So sorry about your ordeal Rob. Glad to hear you're on the mend.


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## kgdrum (Sep 23, 2021)

HI Rob - I’m glad you’re OK,feel better. This sounds equally terrifying and painful.
Be well


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## jsg (Sep 24, 2021)

robgb said:


> Hey guys. Last week I had just recently finished a book and was doing what I love most — working with sample libraries — when right in the middle of a new melody I was hit by a sudden twinge of pain in my groin that soon radiated to my lower back. During the next fifteen minutes, that pain grew to be the most excruciating pain you could ever imagine. The kind of pain I would not wish on anyone.
> 
> I was rushed to the hospital, transferred to a bigger hospital, and when they finally saw what was causing the problem, I under went two operations in three days and spent of total of five days battling pain. The culprit? A giant kidney stone. So large it would have been impossible to pass.
> 
> ...


I hope you recover soon. Drink lots of water (although I am sure you know that!). When we're healthy it's easy to take good health as a given, but daily gratitude is really the attitude to embrace as we can lose it at any time. 

I'm going into surgery in about 11 days to have a mitral valve repair. If I don't have the surgery it will eventually damage the heart and kill me. I'm lucky I have symptoms (shortness of breath and fatigue a few times a week) because some people have the same issue with no symptoms and they don't deal with it and die suddenly. Though the surgery is about 95% successful, it's still anxiety provoking to go "under the knife". But I am lucky, I am 70 years old and have enjoyed good health for a very long time. I'd love to have 10 or 20 more years as I have more music to compose but I will just try to live in the present and be grateful for this moment.


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## Stringtree (Sep 24, 2021)

World's better with you in it. Thanks for the warning signs. Won't soon forget. XO. Write more musik.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 24, 2021)

First one I had gave me stabbing pains but I was convinced it was muscular back pain-UNTIL it started making its move out, at which point I could not stop the groans coming out of my mouth... it was hellish pain. My wife took me to the emergency room. Thank god for drugs.

My most recent one was too big to pass and had to be broken up by sound waves as a medical procedure. They knocked me out to do it.

I love salt but I try not to eat much fast food or delivery food, both of which are suffused with sodium. I stay hydrated. It’s been a few years.


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