# I am done with selling on Reverb: A saga



## MusiquedeReve (Jul 17, 2022)

I sold a like new amp a few days ago on Reverb as I am moving to "in the box" amp sims.

I had only used the amp a handful of times and it was in perfecting working condition.

I just received a refund request informing me that the amp's circuit board had been "modded" and that some of the LED's that light the amp are not working.

This is total BS. In no way was this amp ever opened as, if I ever did decide to open an amp up, I'd likely be electrocuted. Moreover, I posted photos of the amp's LED's all working just moments before I packed it up and waited for a buyer.

Is this a new scam? Buyer's remorse? Never experienced this on Reverb and it seems that, from everything I have read on TGP, that Reverb is ultimately going to side with the buyer (waiting to hear from customer service).

Reverb used to be amazing but it appears as if the scam artists are taking over. I am de-listing the couple of items I still have for sale thereon. I'm done!

Chat transcript with Reverb customer service:






Chat transcript with Reverb customer service:






Here are the pics I took of the LED's working right before packing it:













I see where this is headed (FYI I have yet to see this alleged "documentation" - the amp was basically brand new - sat on a desktop and used only a handful of times):







Look at this insanity...

Email I just received from Reverb (and the image they sent of the circuit board):















Here is my email response to Reverb:







and my supplemental email to Reverb:






I just sent another email to Reverb:







Waiting to hear back but it appears as if the handwriting is on the wall and I am going to have to eat proverbial **** on this

F Reverb!!!


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## Roger Newton (Jul 17, 2022)

Watch from about 2 minutes onwards. For about 2 or 3 minutes. That's what's happening all over.


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## creativeforge (Jul 17, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> Waiting to hear back but it appears as if the handwriting is on the wall and I am going to have to eat proverbial **** on this
> 
> F Reverb!!!


IMHO
One question pops for me: why did the buyer open the amp? As soon as he/she noticed an issue (if indeed there was one) he/she should have taken it to a professional tech, imho.

LED not working? Buyer should have taken a photo (or best, a video) as soon as possible. Imho. NOT open it. Why did they do that? Trying to DIY a fix and ended up damaging it?

It does sound like a shady story to me. But I don't know, maybe something was damaged during shipping? Then it's the shipping company to intervene. Or if this is a replacement amp he/she bought to replace one that got busted by owner...

Good luck, looking forward to hear the conclusion, and hope it's good for you.

Andre

EDIT: have you tried contacting PRS and ask if they have seen this kind of damage before, and what could do it? They should be able to tell you and if what is alleged is possible... I looked online and found this page with photos, some of them look like they have some "snow" on the board too.














PRS MT-15 2020 – Reflector Sessions


15/7 Watts (Switchable), 2 Channels, Power Tubes: 2x JJ 5881, Preamp Tubes: 6x JJ ECC83S




www.mcha.nl





The buyer should be able to take a full photo of the board with the markings.


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## ReelToLogic (Jul 17, 2022)

I've heard of folks buying working electronics, swaping parts with their own failed units and then claiming the unit they bought had the failed elements. It sure smells like that could be the situation here. That can happen on eBay or any other on-line sales forum. It sucks but I don't have a good solution to offer other than only selling locally / in person.


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## Double Helix (Jul 17, 2022)

ReelToLogic said:


> I've heard of folks buying working electronics, swaping parts with their own failed units and then claiming the unit they bought had the failed elements. It sure smells like that could be the situation here.


Yep, this was my first thought, as well


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## liquidlino (Jul 17, 2022)

I had similar scam tried on me when selling camera lenses. Have you got a photo of the serial number of the unit sent? If so, send it to reverb, and say you expect that exact unit returned. I did this and the buyer withdrew claim. They were just trying to send me back their broken, different, lens.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 17, 2022)

Roger Newton said:


> Watch from about 2 minutes onwards. For about 2 or 3 minutes. That's what's happening all over.



The world has gone to ****



creativeforge said:


> IMHO
> One question pops for me: why did the buyer open the amp? As soon as he/she noticed an issue (if indeed there was one) he/she should have taken it to a professional tech, imho.
> 
> LED not working? Buyer should have taken a photo (or best, a video) as soon as possible. Imho. NOT open it. Why did they do that? Trying to DIY a fix and ended up damaging it?
> ...


The buyer never claimed the amp did not work - his leadoff was that he opened the amp and noticed that I had "modded" it -- that is not a mod at all - that is a destruction of the circuit board

I am still waiting to hear back from Reverb

I also emailed PRS with the photo and asked them their opinion on it as well as asking them if they etch the serial # of the amp in the circuit board - let's see if they match up -- this is 100% a scam and the buyer had a non-working amp and bought mine to swap parts




ReelToLogic said:


> I've heard of folks buying working electronics, swaping parts with their own failed units and then claiming the unit they bought had the failed elements. It sure smells like that could be the situation here. That can happen on eBay or any other on-line sales forum. It sucks but I don't have a good solution to offer other than only selling locally / in person.



100% a scam - this buyer is gaming the system and the system ia aiding and abetting him




ReelToLogic said:


> I've heard of folks buying working electronics, swaping parts with their own failed units and then claiming the unit they bought had the failed elements. It sure smells like that could be the situation here. That can happen on eBay or any other on-line sales forum. It sucks but I don't have a good solution to offer other than only selling locally / in person.





Double Helix said:


> Yep, this was my first thought, as well


Yes the serial # is located on a sticker with a bar code - I assume the buyer will send back the amp with the proper serial #, with broken parts from his other amp


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## cedricm (Jul 17, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> I sold a like new amp a few days ago on Reverb as I am moving to "in the box" amp sims.
> 
> I had only used the amp a handful of times and it was in perfecting working condition.
> 
> ...


Protecting the customer is essential.
Unfortunately, in an era of con men the price is too high for sellers.
Many people boast about how they abuse Amazon to get free products or return them after an unboxing or a review is posted on YouTube.
They apparently do not care they bring the sellers to the brink of insolvency.
Others do not hesitate to blackmail restaurants, hotels and other service companies to get free stuff, threatening them of destroying their ratings with fake reviews.

So I wish you the best but I fear your buyer could be a professional thief.
The onus is on Reverb, which has access to statistics on problem buyers and sellers.
Good luck.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 17, 2022)

cedricm said:


> Protecting the customer is essential.
> Unfortunately, in an era of con men the price is too high for sellers.
> Many people boast about how they abuse Amazon to get free products or return them after an unboxing or a review is posted on YouTube.
> They apparently do not care they bring the sellers to the brink of insolvency.
> ...


Yeah, agreed - this is a pure scam - buyer definitely has the same amp that he attempted to mod himself and ruined it in the first place - I will be opening a fraud investigation once Reverb removes the funds from my account


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## Tim_Wells (Jul 17, 2022)

I'm curious. Did you check reviews on the buyer before you agreed to the deal?

I'm in no way trying to blame you! I'm just curious. What happened to you was horrible. Thank you for sharing your story as a warning to us all!


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 17, 2022)

Tim_Wells said:


> I'm curious. Did you check reviews on the buyer before you agreed to the deal?
> 
> I'm in no way trying to blame you! I'm just curious. What happened to you was horrible. Thank you for sharing your story as a warning to us all!



Yes, buyer had almost 90 5-star reviews as a buyer -- but, we all know Reverb won't allow negative reviews anymore


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## Tim_Wells (Jul 17, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> Yes, buyer had almost 90 5-star reviews as a buyer -- but, we all know Reverb won't allow negative reviews anymore


Wow! That is sad. Again, so sorry for your experience.


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## José Herring (Jul 17, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> Yeah, agreed - this is a pure scam - buyer definitely has the same amp that he attempted to mod himself and ruined it in the first place - I will be opening a fraud investigation once Reverb removes the funds from my account


I think you should. I am no lawyer but you have a strong case. You obviously posted all the LED's in working order. 
I think the buyer tried to mod it himself, f'd it up and now is trying to blame you for it and not only that stick with broken hardware that he himself messed up.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 18, 2022)

I also just sent Reverb this photo of the back of the amp - which I assume will do nothing to sway Reverb at all:


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## RonOrchComp (Jul 18, 2022)

*DO NOT OPEN*

If the buyer deliberately ignores the manufacturer warning, that SHOULD mean he is at 100% fault.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 18, 2022)

RonOrchComp said:


> *DO NOT OPEN*
> 
> If the buyer deliberately ignores the manufacturer warning, that SHOULD mean he is at 100% fault.


AMEN!!!


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## GtrString (Jul 18, 2022)

Eww, that’s bad. Not doing Reverb anymore either. Don’t need the hassle.


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## Alchemedia (Jul 18, 2022)

RonOrchComp said:


> *DO NOT OPEN*
> 
> If the buyer deliberately ignores the manufacturer warning, that SHOULD mean he is at 100% fault.


Agreed, however, I don't believe Reverb cares one iota about this warning.


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## Nico5 (Jul 18, 2022)

All of the things, the original poster has mentioned sound totally reasonable, believable and normal. 

However, I have no idea how he could possibly prove the truthfulness of his statements. 

These types of situations would seem to be impossible to adjudicate in the absence of a trusted third party knowing and attesting exactly what was shipped and/or received.

And that’s why I’ve never become comfortable enough to do online transactions with other individuals.


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## kgdrum (Jul 18, 2022)

Living in NYC, the last several years the only way I sold equipment was through Craigs List and I always arranged for in person pickup in exchange for cash.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 18, 2022)

FINAL UPDATE:

I am shocked at how this turned out and also disappointed in what it means for sellers and buyers in the future as, apparently, you can basically own a broken piece of gear, order it on Reverb, take the parts you need then claim the gear you ordered was "damaged" or "modded" and Reverb will let you keep the gear and reimburse you (although, they are allowing me to keep the funds as well) - it seems it's a scammer's world out there and the "good guys" are merely along for the ride at the whim of the middle man (Reverb):


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## creativeforge (Jul 18, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> FINAL UPDATE:
> 
> I am shocked at how this turned out and also disappointed in what it means for sellers and buyers in the future as, apparently, you can basically own a broken piece of gear, order it on Reverb, take the parts you need then claim the gear you ordered was "damaged" or "modded" and Reverb will let you keep the gear and reimburse you (although, they are allowing me to keep the funds as well) - it seems it's a scammer's world out there and the "good guys" are merely along for the ride at the whim of the middle man (Reverb):


Such insanity... At least you get to keep the payment, but what a strange "resolution..."


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## liquidlino (Jul 18, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> FINAL UPDATE:
> 
> I am shocked at how this turned out and also disappointed in what it means for sellers and buyers in the future as, apparently, you can basically own a broken piece of gear, order it on Reverb, take the parts you need then claim the gear you ordered was "damaged" or "modded" and Reverb will let you keep the gear and reimburse you (although, they are allowing me to keep the funds as well) - it seems it's a scammer's world out there and the "good guys" are merely along for the ride at the whim of the middle man (Reverb):


I would say this is the swan song for Reverb - no way they can afford to cover these costs against a rising tide of scams. They've realised the game is up, and trying to stave off extinction through refunds, but they'll go bust soon enough. Very sad, the minority few asshats ruin everything for the rest of us honest folk.


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## GeoMax (Jul 18, 2022)

The buyer should be shipping the amp to Reverb...then he gets a refund. Letting him keep the amp is stupid. Noone should get it. 

I took a load of gear to Music-go-Round and took the discounted values...just to not deal with this pathic soul sucking possibility. So much faster liquidation.

OP - Dont let it eat a hole in your heart. You know the truth. Let if go and deflect this crap.


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## Nico5 (Jul 18, 2022)

I realize that @MorphineNoir is fully convinced that the buyer is scamming. 

It would also seem that Reverb doesn't necessarily agree. 

Wouldn't it be funny, if the amp had already been messed with, before it ever got to @MorphineNoir ?

p.s. Opening up a tube amp is a very normal thing to do for many owners, who are comfortable working with electronics and high voltages. For example, I generally change the tubes on my amps myself. On my Mesa Boogie Mk V, I swap power tubes between 6L6 and EL34, depending if I feel a bit more British or American that day. Swapping tubes (also since they can wear out) is not generally a warranty voiding exercise. The writing on the back of that amp does not imply so either. Albeit one needs to be very careful, since the voltages inside a tube amp can be a very serious hazard to one's well being.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 18, 2022)

Nico5 said:


> I realize that @MorphineNoir is fully convinced that the buyer is scamming.
> 
> It would also seem that Reverb doesn't necessarily agree.
> 
> ...


If the amp had been that way from the factory, I doubt it would have worked at all


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## RonOrchComp (Jul 18, 2022)

Alchemedia said:


> Agreed, however, I don't believe Reverb cares one iota about this warning.


You might, unfortunately, be correct.


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## RonOrchComp (Jul 18, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> I would say this is the swan song for Reverb - no way they can afford to cover these costs against a rising tide of scams.


Sure they can. It's called_ tax write-offs._

The thing that disturbs me, is that with this policy, Reverb is almost encouraging this type of behavior.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 18, 2022)

RonOrchComp said:


> Sure they can. It's called_ tax write-offs._
> 
> The thing that disturbs me, is that with this policy, Reverb is almost encouraging this type of behavior.


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## n9n9n9 (Jul 18, 2022)

liquidlino said:


> I would say this is the swan song for Reverb - no way they can afford to cover these costs against a rising tide of scams. They've realised the game is up, and trying to stave off extinction through refunds, but they'll go bust soon enough. Very sad, the minority few asshats ruin everything for the rest of us honest folk.


Reverb is owned by Etsy and unless I am mistaken their issue resolution workflow is done by a shared team. Etsy has such enormous amounts of both revenue, cash on hand and leftover money from investment rounds that it could very likely take years before even a high rate of abuse started to cause them pain. 

In any case it is very likely true that their business model at this time is not oriented towards profitability but towards cornering the market for instrument sales and purchases and taking business away from ebay and other competitors. As such, this means that having as few "reverb screwed me" messages out in the world as possible.

When they have succeeded in taking the dominant share of the market and have become a quasi monopoly they will start to tighten their controls. Just as paypal did 5-8 years back.

This is only the surface of the bizzaro world that is tech. Similar to when it seemed to cost no more than $10 to ride anywhere in LA on Uber years back... until most of the cab companies went out of business, after which it suddenly cost $50. Investment oriented startup world is not about profit but valuation. Bezos has bragged to his shareholders about amazon's losses in the past, as they were always coupled with rising valuation.

But yeah, the world is dumb. I'm with you guys. (seriously.) I preferred buying and selling on usenet.


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## TinderC (Jul 19, 2022)

This reminds me of Frys Electronics and how the abuse of some people can really affect what's available for honest folks. Along with being undercut by online retailers Frys had a very liberal return policy and had to contend with people "buying" a product for a one-time job then returning immediately or people returning a product with a different non-working unit in the box.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 19, 2022)

A surprising update from Paul Reed Smith technical support (I have notified Reverb as well):


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## timbit2006 (Jul 19, 2022)

"I don't feel like dealing with drama so selling AS PARTS OR AS IS"
It's that easy.
Based on that one pic though this guy definitely gouged it perfectly with a round nose chisel. That's not any amount of any damage an amp could ever sustain, even if you've completely fried the output transformer and blown several screen resistors(I've done this twice!...). I've even had a PA amp go full inferno... No chips like that on the board.


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## timbit2006 (Jul 19, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> A surprising update from Paul Reed Smith technical support (I have notified Reverb as well):


Well, my above analysis was correct lol. That was definitely done intentionally.


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## ka00 (Jul 19, 2022)

This was quite the twist ending.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 19, 2022)

ka00 said:


> This was quite the twist ending.










Paging @charlieclouser to write the music for this ending


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## Orchestrata (Jul 19, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> A surprising update from Paul Reed Smith technical support (I have notified Reverb as well):


Perhaps PRS' support has your back


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## HCMarkus (Jul 19, 2022)

Although one can feel sorry for Reverb under the circumstances, it would appear both the Seller and Buyer have received satisfaction here. To me, it doesn't seem like a situation that warrants writing Reverb off.

I've been very happy with the several transactions, as seller and buyer, I've experience on the site. In one case, the seller delivered a product that had obviously been used in a smoke-filled room. No disclosure about the stench. Resolved by a combination of the item's cleaning/sitting outside in the sun for awhile and substantial price reduction by the seller. This was the only troublesome transaction I've had, and the seller resolved to my satisfaction without involving Reverb.


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## GeoMax (Jul 19, 2022)

And this is why you're probably better off with amp sim anyway.


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## HCMarkus (Jul 19, 2022)

Amp sims are great. But I always track guitars with a mic'd amp AND a DI, taken right from the guitar output. This way, guitarists get to play with their tone of choice and I can use the amp tone by itself, doubled with a plug in sim, or discard the mic'd amp track and use the sim only.

I find guitarists often want to use a tone that is more saturated/distorted than the song will ultimately require. The DI/Amp approach allows tracking without conflict and mixing with less struggle.

Also, it is far easier to find transients for editing on the DI track. As long as the two tracks are grouped together, they will stay aligned, and editing is far easier than it would be on the amp track alone.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 27, 2022)

Well - look what showed up on Reverb now -- this guy got a free amp and is now selling it









PRS MT15 Mark Tremonti Signature 2-Channel 15-Watt Guitar Amp Head | Reverb


Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.




reverb.com






EDIT: apparently it sold


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## HarmonKard (Jul 27, 2022)

YGBFKM

You did alert Reverb to this, right?


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 27, 2022)

HarmonKard said:


> YGBFKM
> 
> You did alert Reverb to this, right?


I did indeed

The ad no longer exists though so either Reverb removed it or he decided to no longer sell it on Reverb


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## timbit2006 (Jul 27, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> I did indeed
> 
> The ad no longer exists though so either Reverb removed it or he decided to no longer sell it on Reverb







it shows this pop-up in the bottom left.
I'm sorry to hear you went through this, scumbags like this guy make a career out of scamming people on buy and sells. It's to the point where many sellers just simply make the disclaimer: for parts or repair if they even know its fully working.


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## HarmonKard (Jul 27, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> I did indeed
> 
> The ad no longer exists though so either Reverb removed it or he decided to no longer sell it on Reverb


Good. Let's check craigslist. Where does he live (not his actual address. duh!  )


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 27, 2022)

HarmonKard said:


> Good. Let's check craigslist. Where does he live (not his actual address. duh!  )


Texas


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## HarmonKard (Jul 27, 2022)

PRS MT15 Amp Head - musical instruments - by owner - sale


Looking to sell my slightly used MT15. Comes with soft case and footswitch. Only mark is on one of the metal tabs on the front. No trades



dallas.craigslist.org





?

Posted a day ago...


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 27, 2022)

HarmonKard said:


> PRS MT15 Amp Head - musical instruments - by owner - sale
> 
> 
> Looking to sell my slightly used MT15. Comes with soft case and footswitch. Only mark is on one of the metal tabs on the front. No trades
> ...



Think our guy is from Austin


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## HarmonKard (Jul 28, 2022)

Nothing in Austin

Sure that's not it? Maybe someone is selling it for him.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 28, 2022)

HarmonKard said:


> Nothing in Austin
> 
> Sure that's not it? Maybe someone is selling it for him.


Can't see the serial # on that but, I wouldn't be surprised


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 28, 2022)

OH BOY!!!

WOW - he has re-listed it and is selling it for more than I sold it to him for and quoting the email I received from PRS regarding their factory modification of the amp

https://reverb.com/item/58474883-pr...Watcher_Item_Relisted&utm_term=Current Design


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## timbit2006 (Jul 28, 2022)

There must be a way to report this seller, this is ridiculous.





All of his stuff is suspiciously in mint condition, it's sad thinking this guy has been doing this constantly.


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## Tim_Wells (Jul 28, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> There must be a way to report this seller, this is ridiculous.


Agree. What a sh!tbag.


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## timbit2006 (Jul 28, 2022)

Ah well, I did pretty much all I could. I'm surprised, I thought reverb would at least have a report feature.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 28, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> There must be a way to report this seller, this is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Tim_Wells said:


> Agree. What a sh!tbag.





timbit2006 said:


> Ah well, I did pretty much all I could. I'm surprised, I thought reverb would at least have a report feature.


I used the Reverb chat feature to report him to a customer service representative - they said they will "look into it" - I do not expect anything


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## timbit2006 (Jul 28, 2022)

Hmm maybe though one of us on VI-Control that is a bit more financially successful can buy out his whole shop and pull the same scam back on him hahaha. I wouldn't mind a nice 5150 lol. I'd feel guilty knowing that this guy pretty much stole it from someone though.


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## timbit2006 (Jul 28, 2022)

Oh boy... If only I was rich. He is really asking for some enforced karma lol


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 28, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> Oh boy... If only I was rich. He is really asking for some enforced karma lol




"unique misunderstanding"

WOW!!!


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## timbit2006 (Jul 28, 2022)

Hmm so... He admitted that the amp is in fact working in the message he sent me but yet he asked for a refund because the amp is apparently not working. I think possibly you might be able to nail him on this one mistake he made.


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## HarmonKard (Jul 28, 2022)

There is a special place in hell for people like this.

Not the same special place that is reserved for murderers and child rapists, but a special place nonetheless.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jul 28, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> Hmm so... He admitted that the amp is in fact working in the message he sent me but yet he asked for a refund because the amp is apparently not working. I think possibly you might be able to nail him on this one mistake he made.


Agreed - I reported him to Reverb but, we all know it will go nowhere




HarmonKard said:


> There is a special place in hell for people like this.
> 
> Not the same special place that is reserved for murderers and child rapists, but a special place nonetheless.


Amen


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## Gaffable (Aug 5, 2022)

As an alternative to Reverb, Sweetwater has just launched its own used gear market, called Gear Exchange.


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## X-Bassist (Aug 5, 2022)

MorphineNoir said:


> Agreed - I reported him to Reverb but, we all know it will go nowhere
> 
> 
> 
> Amen


Very Strange. But also explains the resent rash of sellers on Reverb that are listing hard to get items in good condition at reasonable or high prices (like the Midas DL32 that halted production), then after payment never send the item. Claim it was lost in the mail, but they have no tracking code and the "shipper" knows nothing of the package. Then the seller stops communicating after payment.
Reverb sends a refund, but the seller is probably long gone.

Twice a company I work for got refunds, but the refunds were from Reverb. For over $2K each time. The seller walks away and lists under another name. Reverb's insurance covers the payment.

It will put Reverb out of business, even if their insurance will cover it for now. Eventually (6 months?) it will catch up to them.

Such a bad business move. Even though we walked away with our money back, the criminal still makes out, and will just drive away sites that insure the transactions, as the premiums for them skyrocket.

Another example of insurance running amuck. I'm done too.
Bummer, because Craigs List in Los Angeles is more sketchy than looking for gear walking along skid row downtown. And it's hard (or will be soon) to find a 2nd hand gear site that will cover the transaction. Even paypal will pull away from those kinds of transactions soon.


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