# Full Hollywood Diamond Orchestra - what kind of slave?



## Saxer (Apr 9, 2015)

guess what... i couldn't resist the east-west hollywood diamond sale. the package arrived today. ok... i planned to add a slave pc to my mac-logic-system anyway. but:

what do i need for a full hollywood diamond orchestra?

a slave pc with two ssd's... ok. what kind of furniture inside? 

is 4-core enough? or do i need a 6-core?

is 32 gig ram ok or do i need 64?


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## Przemek K. (Apr 11, 2015)

Well, tough question I guess. Probably depends if you want your slave to be upgradable for the future.

I myself just built a new workstation with the following parts:

*Cpu*: i7 5820k (6core,12 threads, 3.3 ghz)
*Mainboard*: MSI x99s Sli plus (supports up to 128 gig of ecc ram with a xeon CPU or 64 gigs with i7)
*Ram*: 32 gig Crucial 2133mhz Cl15

So 32 gigs of ram as a starting point compared to old workstation which has only 8 gig ram. I still have lots of room to get more ram if needed, and as I also went for the east-west hollywood diamond sale I guess I'll have to upgrade the ram rather sooner than later


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## Saxer (Apr 11, 2015)

thanks for the info... yes, i think that will be my configuration too: 6-core and 32 gig (with the option to add more ram later).


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## Przemek K. (Apr 11, 2015)

Oh, and you will definitely need a few ssd's too. Can't live without them now.
I went for the Crucial MX100.


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## EastWest Lurker (Apr 11, 2015)

Six Core i7 and get 64 GB.


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## Saxer (Apr 11, 2015)

ok, thanks guys - good to know! 
i will not save money at the wrong point. thanks for the hint, jay!


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## PeterKorcek (Apr 11, 2015)

what jay said, RAM is pretty cheap these days - I have the setup he suggested i7 6 core with 64GB RAM - housing ALL EW instruments and Omnisphere


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## vudoo (Apr 11, 2015)

I read that some of you use several SSD to span the HW library for quicker access/playback. I prefer using one 1 TB ssd for easier sample management. Aynways, anyone using similar set up and how 's it working out for you ? Thx


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## Mahlon (Apr 11, 2015)

I'd suggest 64 GB, too. Oh and congrats on the acquisition. You're going to love HB.

Mahlon


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## JohnG (Apr 11, 2015)

*I. If you are running only strings on this computer*, 32 GB of RAM will cover a lot. 

For strings, instead of individual SSDs I use a PCIe card that has a bunch of SSD chips on it (they are in a hardware RAID but you don't really need to pay attention to that -- it's already done for you).

Advantages: 

1. use PCIe bus instead of SATA bus, and

2. SSDs appear as a single drive, which makes it easier to update software libraries.

Disadvantage: If a single SSD chip goes out on the card, your entire card has to be factory repaired -- you can't do it yourself.

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*II. If you are running the entire orchestra off of one computer*, definitely get 64 GB or consider 2 slaves. I use multiple SSDs on each of multiple (mostly not that powerful) computers.

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*III. Either way*, suggest you use VE Pro as a host.

Have fun. Makes great sounds.


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## Saxer (Apr 11, 2015)

thanks all for great info!


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## Lawson. (Apr 11, 2015)

I have a 6-core 3.5 GHz Xeon with 64GB DDR4 2133 MHz ECC RAM, and a ASRock X99 WS motherboard. Drive setup is: 1x 250GB 850 EVO for OS, 3x 250GB 850 EVO in RAID0 for EastWest, 2x 500GB 850 EVO for other libraries, and a 1x 3TB WD 7.2k rpm back-up drive. The RAID0 drive gets a 1600 MB/s read speed, so I can literally load the entirety of HS Diamond (main mic only) in 50 seconds.

It munches down every VI I throw at it. Every articulation loaded for HS Diamond, HB Gold, BWW (+ Exp. A and Exp. B), CinePerc CORE, and HZ01, plus some oddball stuff here and there (random SD2, QLSO, SM, etc. patches). The whole thing loads up in about 3 minutes.

Not sure how big your template will be, but I would definitely go with 64GB of RAM. In fact, I want to upgrade to 128GB sometime. 

Good luck!


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## JohnG (Apr 11, 2015)

sounds fantastic -- great advice.


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## gsilbers (Apr 11, 2015)

does it matter much if the main OS hard drive is HHD instead of SSD?


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## JohnG (Apr 11, 2015)

not in my experience. It starts up faster with an SSD. Some people report it's "snappier" but I am not sure about that -- seems anecdotal.


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## PeterKorcek (Apr 12, 2015)

So I loaded my template - its all sections of Strings and Brass, some Woodwinds, Stormdrums 2 and 3, Symphonic Choirs, couple of Omnis - check the screenshot - there are several articulations in each (5 in First Violins, etc), all loaded with MAIN and MID mics + I have couple of Kontakt instances loaded in my Master, routings to Spaces Reverb instances as well

It all loads in 2.5 minutes


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## Przemek K. (Apr 12, 2015)

JohnG @ Sat Apr 11 said:


> not in my experience. It starts up faster with an SSD. Some people report it's "snappier" but I am not sure about that -- seems anecdotal.


I installed the OS on a ssd and it definitely is snappier. OS loads faster and applications load faster too. 

@PeterKorcek

How much ram is filled up with your template? Could you test it but only with one mic position how much ram it would take?

Thanks


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## samphony (Apr 12, 2015)

PeterKorcek @ Sun Apr 12 said:


> So I loaded my template - its all sections of Strings and Brass, some Woodwinds, Stormdrums 2 and 3, Symphonic Choirs, couple of Omnis - check the screenshot - there are several articulations in each (5 in First Violins, etc), all loaded with MAIN and MID mics + I have couple of Kontakt instances loaded in my Master, routings to Spaces Reverb instances as well
> 
> It all loads in 2.5 minutes



Peter,

How long does it take to disconnect all instances when switching to another project?
What are your settings for Midi ports, Multicore and audio in and outputs for each instance?

Thanks


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## PeterKorcek (Apr 12, 2015)

samphony @ Sun Apr 12 said:


> PeterKorcek @ Sun Apr 12 said:
> 
> 
> > So I loaded my template - its all sections of Strings and Brass, some Woodwinds, Stormdrums 2 and 3, Symphonic Choirs, couple of Omnis - check the screenshot - there are several articulations in each (5 in First Violins, etc), all loaded with MAIN and MID mics + I have couple of Kontakt instances loaded in my Master, routings to Spaces Reverb instances as well
> ...



I am hobbyist, so I dont work on multiple projects - i have templates for orchestral songs - like this, then template for synth-based track, etc, but

Right now I use Cubase and Rack instruments with EW libraries, with kontakt and omni I use instrument tracks - with rack insturments I have for example an instance of VEP5 that connects to instance on the server - First Strings - I have 5 articulations loaded - long and short, each is on distinct MIDI channel and routed to either Longs or SHorts output - in Cubase I have these MIDI tracks were I record, MIDI CC them, they go to output for Long or Short and various Sends, then to String bus, etc


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## PeterKorcek (Apr 12, 2015)

I think it was 14-16 GB RAM in my master mac, in slave Im not sure, will double check that later this evening


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## Lawson. (Apr 12, 2015)

PeterKorcek @ Sun Apr 12 said:


> So I loaded my template - its all sections of Strings and Brass, some Woodwinds, Stormdrums 2 and 3, Symphonic Choirs, couple of Omnis - check the screenshot - there are several articulations in each (5 in First Violins, etc), all loaded with MAIN and MID mics + I have couple of Kontakt instances loaded in my Master, routings to Spaces Reverb instances as well
> 
> It all loads in 2.5 minutes



I noticed you have Vln1, Vln2, Tuba, etc. all in their own instances. I have it set up so Strings, Brass, etc. are their own instances. Is there a difference?


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## JohnG (Apr 12, 2015)

Hi Lawson,

It is slightly more efficient to combine all strings into a single instance -- but only slightly. There seem to be a few samples that are used by more than one instrument, like FX. In the main, the V1 samples are distinct from the V2 and Vla etc., so there is no RAM benefit to combining them.

And of course there are resources used for each instance, so that also saves resources the way you are doing it.


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## EastWest Lurker (Apr 12, 2015)

JohnG @ Sun Apr 12 said:


> Hi Lawson,
> 
> It is slightly more efficient to combine all strings into a single instance -- but only slightly. There seem to be a few samples that are used by more than one instrument, like FX. In the main, the V1 samples are distinct from the V2 and Vla etc., so there is no RAM benefit to combining them.
> 
> And of course there are resources used for each instance, so that also saves resources the way you are doing it.



Not for using with Logic Pro, it isn't.


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## JohnG (Apr 12, 2015)

I thought we were talking PC slaves?


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## EastWest Lurker (Apr 12, 2015)

JohnG @ Sun Apr 12 said:


> I thought we were talking PC slaves?



We are but Logic Pro connects to it so how it is set up matters, and more v-frames, less in each, works best.


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## JohnG (Apr 12, 2015)

Ok -- thanks for clarifying. I don't use the network thing and I don't use Logic, so appreciate it, Jay.


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## PeterKorcek (Apr 12, 2015)

actually, I had this setup when I was using Logic pro, recently I upgraded my "old" Cubase 7 to 8 because of the new features - which brings me to question about better management of instances in VEP in slave.

Now, my Pc slave is fairly powerful, so its working the way it is, but could you guys post screenshots of your setups in VEP server in slave - do you use different MIDI ports inside VEP project inside VEP instance when having ALL the STRINGS subsections in 1 STRING instance?
thanks


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## Lawson. (Apr 12, 2015)

Each instrument has it's own MIDI port, output, and 16 MIDI channels. http://imgur.com/FOxbvDA http://imgur.com/bPLnJy0 It goes into DP where I use stereo bundles to buss out the different instruments, separated by the respective port, output, and channel. From there, I mess around with the busses even more and eventually end up with full control over each MIDI track, each MIDI port, each instance, each section, and the entire thing. http://imgur.com/Ft5XVB5 Everything is done in my V-rack so I stay consistent between chunks, plus it really cleans up everything and helps keep it organized.

Here's a demo with BWW:
All my BWW instruments in one instance: http://imgur.com/5GdgeTo
VEP5 routing: http://imgur.com/QW25Bly
DP8 routing (notice main VEP BWW track, the different MIDI ports all routed to a main BWW buss, that buss routed to the main woodwinds channel, and the woodwind channel routed to the master orchestra channel): http://imgur.com/THREsEX
Individual control: http://imgur.com/rpoJah1


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## PeterKorcek (Apr 13, 2015)

great stuff Mr. Lawson  So its MIDI port approach basically, which is fine and its problably more efficient as was said before - I do not want to change my template as everything runs as it should, but thanks for info 

I see you have QL SPaces instances set up as well, have them too in my setup


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## brett (Apr 13, 2015)

With all you guys using fast SSD drives on slaves, how is it that VEP / networking doesn't become the bottleneck? What settings (secret sauce) are you using to keep networking speeds / latency up? Surely streaming this many samples (thanks to multiple SSDs) over ethernet means latency settings or buffer multipliers have to be bumped up?

Truly interested as I'd like to squeeze more out of my VEP slave and am about to go the SSD route.

Thanks


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## JohnG (Apr 13, 2015)

I still use MidiOverLAN for that and hardware audio. My VE Pro instances are standalone


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## gsilbers (Apr 13, 2015)

brett @ Mon Apr 13 said:


> With all you guys using fast SSD drives on slaves, how is it that VEP / networking doesn't become the bottleneck? What settings (secret sauce) are you using to keep networking speeds / latency up? Surely streaming this many samples (thanks to multiple SSDs) over ethernet means latency settings or buffer multipliers have to be bumped up?
> 
> Truly interested as I'd like to squeeze more out of my VEP slave and am about to go the SSD route.
> 
> Thanks



it was a while ago, but i was using a normal/old ethernet hub and then leanrned i needed a gigabit hub. 
ssd is a huge step up .


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## Lawson. (Apr 14, 2015)

PeterKorcek @ Mon Apr 13 said:


> great stuff Mr. Lawson  So its MIDI port approach basically, which is fine and its problably more efficient as was said before - I do not want to change my template as everything runs as it should, but thanks for info
> 
> I see you have QL SPaces instances set up as well, have them too in my setup



Thanks! Hopefully it was helpful.


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## brett (Apr 14, 2015)

JohnG @ Tue Apr 14 said:


> I still use MidiOverLAN for that and hardware audio. My VE Pro instances are standalone



Thanks John. However I'm using Ethernet cable only between slaves. I wish I could afford to whack an audio interface in them.

@gsilbers, thanks. I'm using a gigabit switch already. Anyone else?

Cheers


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## Saxer (Apr 15, 2015)

windows 7 or 8?


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## EastWest Lurker (Apr 15, 2015)

brett @ Tue Apr 14 said:


> JohnG @ Tue Apr 14 said:
> 
> 
> > I still use MidiOverLAN for that and hardware audio. My VE Pro instances are standalone
> ...



With only 2 computers, n additional audio interface is not necessary in my experience.


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## JohnG (Apr 15, 2015)

I would echo Jay -- if I had only 2 or 3 computers I'd just use VE Pro. That's what everyone's doing. With 3 maybe you need an ethernet switch (cheap) but I'm not even sure of that.

I already owned the hardware or I would have consolidated down some of my older PCs by now in favour of VE Pro.


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## brett (Apr 15, 2015)

@John and Jay...

So if you were using just VEP via gigabit switch what settings do you use in VEP preferences? I'm already close to maxing out the network so am fearful that once I introduce HO and SSDs I'll swap it.

- How many audio inputs and outputs per instance? 
- How many midi ports?
- Do you tend to try to spread sections across as many VEP instances as possible or consolidate? For example, all HS on once instance or each string section on it's own instance?
- Latency on host as related to buffer multipliers?

Obviously I can increase latency but with a host buffer or 512 and buffer multiplier of x2 on a slave, playing percussion samples becomes pretty average.

Tips appreciated. HO arrives in a few days!

Brett


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## EastWest Lurker (Apr 15, 2015)

brett @ Wed Apr 15 said:


> @John and Jay...
> 
> So if you were using just VEP via gigabit switch what settings do you use in VEP preferences? I'm already close to maxing out the network so am fearful that once I introduce HO and SSDs I'll swap it.
> 
> ...



I don't use a gigabit switch, just an ethernet connection form my Mac and my PC to my router. The way I set it up is one v-frame per instrument with one Play instance in each with multiple articulations because :

1; It is like a score page.

2. It woks best with Logic Pro that way.


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## hazza (Apr 16, 2015)

JohnG - interested in your PCI SSD suggestion. Anyone else using these? Is there really a tangible difference for us composers between 500kb/s and 1000kb/s? Obviously your template will load in half the time, but would a full orchestra running all bells and whistles ever hit 500kb/s? Then there's the price... I'm looking for 1TB :-/

Cheers


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