# In praise of Studio One



## Mark Ozanich

My God this is a well-designed program. Just downloaded...I can find and do everything so easily! Could be just suits my expectations. I don't know...it's a damn fine program. (I'm ex-Reaper, Logic, DP, and a dabble in Cubase).


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## StillLife

Totally agree.


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## dyvoid

Yes, I recently got it too and couldn't be happier with it. This is definitely an application where it pays to familiarize yourself with keyboard shortcuts though. It helps with speeding up your workflow, but also to be able to focus on whatever you're working on at the moment.


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## chocobitz825

Studio one is a great daw. Very fluid workflow and things that it lacks are constantly being added.

Highly recommend using a tablet app for running shortcuts, or a stream deck and the profile below






Studio One Pro Stream Deck — sideshowfx







www.sideshowfx.net


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## d4vec4rter

Using it more and more as it's just so quick and easy but Cubase is still my main man for the serious stuff. As a general sketchpad for ideas it's brilliant. That's not to say it isn't a major contender to the the other big names. It is, but I think it's got a while to go before it's as beefy as Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, etc.


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## Mark Ozanich

chocobitz825 said:


> Studio one is a great daw. Very fluid workflow and things that it lacks are constantly being added.
> 
> Highly recommend using a tablet app for running shortcuts, or a stream deck and the profile below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Studio One Pro Stream Deck — sideshowfx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sideshowfx.net


Thanks much for this Stream Deck link...I have the box, but never set it up.


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## Bee_Abney

I like the way it crashes when there is a problem with a plugin. It never comes as a surprise! 

I'd like more modulation options over mixing parameters, but aside from massively multi-tracked orchestral stuff, I find it pretty perfect. The great user's guide and the plethora of instructional videos is a real benefit. 

The included plugins are genuinely excellent. For frequency splitting, it is pretty much as good as it gets. 

Modulation and frequent crashing aside, it suits my needs so well I count myself very lucky to be using it.


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## antsteep

I downloaded the demo last month and am hooked. I came from Logic via Ableton and Pro Tools.

My mind is a little sore trying find a good solution to work with picture, but I am optimistic that this will be much better in the near future.

Today I tried to give Cubase another shot and I just didn't find it as inspiring.


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## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> I like the way it crashes when there is a problem with a plugin. It never comes as a surprise!


Did you know that Bitwig can run plugins in a sandbox mode so it the plugin misbehaves it doesn't bring the whole DAW down?

Just sayin...


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## TintoL

Mark Ozanich said:


> My God this is a well-designed program. Just downloaded...I can find and do everything so easily! Could be just suits my expectations. I don't know...it's a damn fine program. (I'm ex-Reaper, Logic, DP, and a dabble in Cubase).


Absolutely agree.

I just started to use it. This thing is all about workflow. I have been using cubase for years. And I am tired of the weird complex workflow. The UI turned into this mega weird thing with a floating bar menu.

I am really surprised how quick is the UI and the tools. Specially the ability to swith and select channels from the piano roll are amazing.

The macros are just so much easier and accesible.

Also, something as small as putting the CC control lanes in the piano rolls as tabs. Genius. Same with the plugin window, all as tabs. These tiny simple things that are just so much easier.

I don't use anymore the template thing. For now I am in studio one.


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## QuiteAlright

Agreed. Studio One is a very good all around DAW. Its workflow is the most efficient for me personally, and I think that for general purpose use it's probably the best pick for most people, though I could make the case for Logic if it were cross platform.

There are a few things it's missing that I would really love to see in the future:

Plugin sandboxing
Autosampler
Automatic vocal alignment (like Cakewalk)


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## TintoL

BTW, there is one thing that studio one lacks compared to cubase. The middle mouse click to pan the piano roll and project area. That is, IMHO, super important. Studio one doesn't have that by default.

But, there is this script/app that you can install to get that behavior in studio one. Just install it and it will immediately work. Even if you have studio one open.

I don't know why presonus guys haven't added that. To me is obviously mega important.

Anyhow, here is the link to that app:









Releases · lokanchung/StudioPlusOne


Contribute to lokanchung/StudioPlusOne development by creating an account on GitHub.




github.com


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## Bee_Abney

TintoL said:


> BTW, there is one thing that studio one lacks compared to cubase. The middle mouse click to pan the piano roll and project area. That is, IMHO, super important. Studio one doesn't have that by default.
> 
> But, there is this script/app that you can install to get that behavior in studio one. Just install it and it will immediately work. Even if you have studio one open.
> 
> I don't know why presonus guys haven't added that. To me is obviously mega important.
> 
> Anyhow, here is the link to that app:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Releases · lokanchung/StudioPlusOne
> 
> 
> Contribute to lokanchung/StudioPlusOne development by creating an account on GitHub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com


Brilliant! That's going to make life a lot easier! Thank you.


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## Lukas

Pier said:


> Did you know that Bitwig can run plugins in a sandbox mode so it the plugin misbehaves it doesn't bring the whole DAW down?


Did you know that sandboxing introduces massive additional latency? Sandboxing never comes without its price - many think so.


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## Pier

Lukas said:


> Did you know that sandboxing introduces massive additional latency? Sandboxing never comes without its price - many think so.


Indeed.

In fact in Bitwig you can configure how much of it you want:







Or do it individually, per plugin (since some plugins are more mischievous than others).

More info here:






Plug-in Hosting & Crash Protection in Bitwig Studio







www.bitwig.com


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## Trash Panda

I liked Studio One while using it. The Sound Variations are awesome and the way they have started integrating with the notation view is amazing.

I'm hoping these areas can get addressed at some point so using Reaper as a workhorse is less attractive.

CPU performance improvements, particularly with multi-threading
Hot-key assignable CC curve types and CC item attribute management
Floating windows that function like standard program windows and follow usual Windows OS behaviors
Ability to open a blank project without having to create and save a project first for when I want to quickly hop in and try something out without this extra step
Instrument panel and menu behavior not getting wonky when 100+ instruments are in a project
The performance is the biggest area of importance to me though, because I'm already pushing my PCs to their limits with some libraries and won't be able to upgrade for awhile.


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## Lukas

Pier said:


> Or do it individually, per plugin (since some plugins are more mischievous than others).


Yes. It may work for small or medium songs. But you won't make a template with hundreds of (enabled) plug-ins (instruments and effects) and let each plug-in run in an individual sandbox. It wouldn't work.

Or you just avoid buggy plug-ins and have no crashes anyway.


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## Lukas

Trash Panda said:


> CPU performance improvements, particularly with multi-threading


What do you want to be improved?


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## Pier

Lukas said:


> But you won't make a template with hundreds of (enabled) plug-ins (instruments and effects) and let each plug-in run in an individual sandbox. It wouldn't work.


I don't know about that, but yeah Bitwig is not really a good option for orchestral work anyway.

From what I've read here on VIC, neither is Studio One as it has serious UI performance issues on big projects.


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## Bee_Abney

Lukas said:


> Yes. It may work for small or medium songs. But you won't make a template with hundreds of (enabled) plug-ins (instruments and effects) and let each plug-in run in an individual sandbox. It wouldn't work.
> 
> Or you just avoid buggy plug-ins and have no crashes anyway.


Well, that's... _every_ plugin out. (!)


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## Wunderhorn

It would be nice to have sandboxing of individual plugins as an option.
E.g. Mntra is crashing all the time but I would not have it on many tracks anyway.
Same goes for Best Service Engine.


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## Bee_Abney

Trash Panda said:


> I liked Studio One while using it. The Sound Variations are awesome and the way they have started integrating with the notation view is amazing.
> 
> I'm hoping these areas can get addressed at some point so using Reaper as a workhorse is less attractive.
> 
> CPU performance improvements, particularly with multi-threading
> Hot-key assignable CC curve types and CC item attribute management
> Floating windows that function like standard program windows and follow usual Windows OS behaviors
> Ability to open a blank project without having to create and save a project first for when I want to quickly hop in and try something out without this extra step
> Instrument panel and menu behavior not getting wonky when 100+ instruments are in a project
> The performance is the biggest area of importance to me though, because I'm already pushing my PCs to their limits with some libraries and won't be able to upgrade for awhile.


I expect the CPU issues only show up with large instrument/track counts. The CPU hungry synths I use are not noticeably more difficult to run in Studio One than as standalone. 

The pop up windows float and can be pinned if you want to keep them around. 

I can open a blank project, load and play and leave without ever saving anything.


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## Trash Panda

Lukas said:


> What do you want to be improved?


I'll set up some test cases tonight or tomorrow and share the results. Would you prefer PM or here?


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## Trash Panda

Bee_Abney said:


> The pop up windows float and can be pinned if you want to keep them around.


I meant full-fledged window functionality like it was a separate program window. Windows OS minimize, maximize, close buttons, ability to shift + up to maximize, windows + shift + left/right to move to a separate screen, etc. Other DAWs do this.



Bee_Abney said:


> I can open a blank project, load and play and leave without ever saving anything.


I'm talking about skipping having to create a blank project or select it as a step. Just load up the DAW, no landing screen, you're already in a blank project and can throw up a few tracks, close down, don't save, leave zero footprint behind.


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## Bee_Abney

Trash Panda said:


> I meant full-fledged window functionality like it was a separate program window. Windows OS minimize, maximize, close buttons, ability to shift + up to maximize, windows + shift + left/right to move to a separate screen, etc. Other DAWs do this.
> 
> 
> I'm talking about skipping having to create a blank project or select it as a step. Just load up the DAW, no landing screen, you're already in a blank project and can throw up a few tracks, close down, don't save, leave zero footprint behind.


I was under the impression that it could do those things. You can resize some windows at least; but most of those other things I haven't tried. I understand wanting those functions if it doesn't have them. I don't know the full range of possible short cuts.

You can set Studio One to open in different ways. I don't know quite what you have in mind. You'd have to be able to select an instrument, so I'd have thought opening to a blank project would be good enough, and I believe that is one of the options. If I didn't want any of the functions of the DAW I'd use Komplete or a standalone instrument.

I'm clearly not understanding!


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## Lukas

Trash Panda said:


> I'll set up some test cases tonight or tomorrow and share the results. Would you prefer PM or here?


Here! Everyone should see them  But when you create test cases between different DAWs, please don't look at the CPU / performance meters and just compared those values - they do different things in DAWs so "Studio One's performance meter says 80% and Ableton Live's meters says 5%" is not a test case result. Windows task nanager either - these values are extremely inaccurate. You need to create the same song setup in both DAWs under the same conditions (options like Dropout Protections etc) and see how many of those tracks you can add until you experience real dropouts.



Trash Panda said:


> I'm talking about skipping having to create a blank project or select it as a step. Just load up the DAW, no landing screen, you're already in a blank project and can throw up a few tracks, close down, don't save, leave zero footprint behind.


Why not create an "Empty Song Template" song and open this song instead of Studio One (on Windows: create a link to Empty Song.song instead of Studio One.exe - or attach the song as a parameter)? It's a workaround but it works great  Only thing you need to do is select "Save to New Folder" or "Save as" instead of just pressing Ctrl/Cmd+S if you want to save the song for the first time.


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## antsteep

TintoL said:


> BTW, there is one thing that studio one lacks compared to cubase. The middle mouse click to pan the piano roll and project area. That is, IMHO, super important. Studio one doesn't have that by default.
> 
> But, there is this script/app that you can install to get that behavior in studio one. Just install it and it will immediately work. Even if you have studio one open.
> 
> I don't know why presonus guys haven't added that. To me is obviously mega important.
> 
> Anyhow, here is the link to that app:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Releases · lokanchung/StudioPlusOne
> 
> 
> Contribute to lokanchung/StudioPlusOne development by creating an account on GitHub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> github.com


I use a track pad so this function is there with pinch movement. If I am understanding this correctly


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## TintoL

antsteep said:


> I use a track pad so this function is there with pinch movement. If I am understanding this correctly


Yes, it can do a pan if you have a touch screen. Same with a track tablet. It responds to touch. But not to mouse or a wacom pen. If you pinch you get a horizontal zoom. If you tap and move the finger, it pans. 

The wacom pen on a cintiq is really the best. You map the middle button to the pen's button. And you pan as your are drawing. The same with the middle button of the mouse. Once you use the keyboard to punch and move notes, or the pen, it's hard not to have an inmediate response. 

I personally like better not to depend on the touch. 

Hope that helps


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## QuiteAlright

Lukas said:


> Did you know that sandboxing introduces massive additional latency? Sandboxing never comes without its price - many think so.


It's not massive in most implementations. I would happily sacrifice 10ms of extra latency for the ability to have my plugin sandboxed, and the important thing to note is that it's an _option_, so you can just turn it off for recording sessions.


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## TintoL

Wunderhorn said:


> It would be nice to have sandboxing of individual plugins as an option.
> E.g. Mntra is crashing all the time but I would not have it on many tracks anyway.
> Same goes for Best Service Engine.


I didn't know engine crashed studio one. I have the tarilonte libraries. I will do some tests. I haven't used engine up to now in studio one. 

Thanks for the info.


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## Wunderhorn

TintoL said:


> I didn't know engine crashed studio one. I have the tarilonte libraries. I will do some tests. I haven't used engine up to now in studio one.
> 
> Thanks for the info.


As wonderful as the Tarilonte libraries are, I stopped buying them. Even at sales prices. Tired of baby-sitting proprietary sample players that crash my template. Waste of time.
If Tarilonte returns to Kontakt I'll happily put his libraries back on my shopping list.


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## Bee_Abney

TintoL said:


> I didn't know engine crashed studio one. I have the tarilonte libraries. I will do some tests. I haven't used engine up to now in studio one.
> 
> Thanks for the info.


I've used both Engine 2 and Mndala in Studio One a lot and not noticed any particular problems. I use Engine 2 inside of Komplete, if that makes any difference, as I have been unable to route mutiple midi controllers directly into Engine 2 itself.

There was an earlier version of Mntra's Mndala that did crash Studio One. I reported the issue and they fixed it at that time. It may be a problem that has been resolved; or perhaps there is a new one I haven't encountered yet.


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## Wunderhorn

Bee_Abney said:


> There was an earlier version of Mntra's Mndala that did crash Studio One. I reported the issue and they fixed it at that time. It may be a problem that has been resolved; or perhaps there is a new one I haven't encountered yet.


I heard from then stating that the AU version may be more unstable than the VST2. I de-installed the AU and will see if it still crashes S1. (If I remember right it also crashed Logic)


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## Bee_Abney

Wunderhorn said:


> I heard from then stating that the AU version may be more unstable than the VST2. I de-installed the AU and will see if it still crashes S1. (If I remember right it also crashed Logic)


And it is worth staying in touch with Mntra about it; my issue got fixed in a couple of days. On a Sunday, even!


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## Wunderhorn

Bee_Abney said:


> And it is worth staying in touch with Mntra about it; my issue got fixed in a couple of days. On a Sunday, no less!


Yes, they are responsive. They earn extra points for Griffindor.


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## Noeticus

I use and love Presonus Studio One 5 but wish I could have a video running inside the top track, so it looked like a timeline. Currently the only way to write music to a video with it is to have a popup video window open, which is nice, but I want the video inside the track as well.


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## Lukas

I never had problems with ENGINE in Studio One.



Wunderhorn said:


> I heard from then stating that the AU version may be more unstable than the VST2.


You should try out the VST version, Studio One supports AU but many plug-in developer test their AU versions only in Logic. VST is still the recommended plug-in format in Studio One.


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## Wunderhorn

Lukas said:


> You should try out the VST version, Studio One supports AU but many plug-in developer test their AU versions only in Logic. VST is still the recommended plug-in format in Studio One.


I had Engine crash in Logic as well...
Can anything be said about VST2 vs VST3 in terms of stability in S1?


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## Lukas

Wunderhorn said:


> Can anything be said about VST2 vs VST3 in terms of stability in S1?


You mean in general? It really depends on the single plug-ins. No general statement possible. Personally, I usually prefer VST3 versions unless there are known issues with a single plug-in - or functional differences.


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## dcoscina

Mark Ozanich said:


> My God this is a well-designed program. Just downloaded...I can find and do everything so easily! Could be just suits my expectations. I don't know...it's a damn fine program. (I'm ex-Reaper, Logic, DP, and a dabble in Cubase).


Welcome…to the real world Neo! 😁


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## Wunderhorn

Lukas said:


> You mean in general? It really depends on the single plug-ins. No general statement possible. Personally, I usually prefer VST3 versions unless there are known issues with a single plug-in - or functional differences.


Good to know!
Coming mostly from Logic I was used to AU and thought on MacOS it would not really matter if AU or VST if both are supported by the host.


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## Lukas

Wunderhorn said:


> Coming mostly from Logic I was used to AU and thought on MacOS it would not really matter if AU or VST if both are supported by the host.


Yes - theoretically. But AU is still the Logic format, that's why some manufacturers don't test their AU versions in other DAWs. For example, Waves officially states that their plug-ins are only compatible with Studio One in the VST3 version.









Supported Hosts | Support | Waves


This page lists all DAWs officially supported for each version of Waves plugins.




www.waves.com


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## SonOfPeter

Pier said:


> Indeed.
> 
> In fact in Bitwig you can configure how much of it you want:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or do it individually, per plugin (since some plugins are more mischievous than others).
> 
> More info here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plug-in Hosting & Crash Protection in Bitwig Studio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitwig.com


Honestly though, I’d rather not introduce any latency at all. Plugins crashing the DAW is definitely annoying but also a extremely rare issue, at least for me. 

In fact since I moved from logic to studio one it’s only happened maybe twice in the last couple years.

I hope if studio one adds sandboxing it’s opt-in.


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## Trensharo

I've gotten a lot more crashes in Studio One than in Cubase - ironically when removing inserts. It's fine when actually instantiating plugins or using them, but it feels like roulette when I have to remove one. I would always save before doing this, because I didn't know if it was going to crash or not.

I haven't gotten any in Digital Performer, thus far, but that's probably because it will blacklist anything that fails/crashes the scanner that check plug-ins. Mitigation via paranoia, in a way. Since I tend to install both VST2 and VST3, I simply replace the VST3's that fail with their counterpart VST2's, which generally pass the scan (at least that is how it has worked out thus far).

DP has a pre-gen system that generates audio ahead of the wiper, though, so latency isn't a huge deal there even for plug-ins that introduce it. IIRC, Samplitude Pro X's Hybrid Engine does something similar (it pre-buffers things ahead of the play head during playback, mitigating this, which is why there's a short pause when you first initiate playback in a project).

I wonder how many other DAWs have implemented a similar solution (anyone know?).

If PreSonus implement a sandbox + a system like this, then latency is unlikely to be an issue unless you force the DAW into real-time/live playback mode (or whatever they'd call it).


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## SonOfPeter

Noeticus said:


> I use and love Presonus Studio One 5 but wish I could have a video running inside the top track, so it looked like a timeline. Currently the only way to write music to a video with it is to have a popup video window open, which is nice, but I want the video inside the track as well.


I think one of the problems with DAWs is they become so bloated with features trying to cater to everyone.

With something like this the better approach is a separate app for video that can sync with the DAW through a simple standardized API rather than bogging down studio one with video features that a large majority won’t even use.


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## Trensharo

SonOfPeter said:


> I think one of the problems with DAWs is they become so bloated with features trying to cater to everyone.


As long as the features and application menus are organized well, I don't think this is a problem.

How many features a DAW has is rarely an issue. More is almost always better, because catering to more users means the DAW can sell more copies, which means they can invest more R&D into areas of the DAW you actually care about.

DAWs that have relatively contracted/niche/market segment specific user bases tend to develop slowly in areas that don't bias to the core market.

The issue people tend to have is when organization of those features becomes an issue, and when the DAW isn't designde to facilitate using them in a non-distracting manner (or in a way that doesn't become very messy or cluttered through use).

FL Studio and REAPER are good examples of DAWs that can get quite cluttered when they're loaded up with features, because the UX was not designed to handle it. They were relatively simple DAWs that grew to have large feature sets, but the base application design was never evolved "enough" to ingest that feature set and maintain UX stability.

I don't think PreSonus has that problem.

-----

Beyond that:

1. You have no way of knowing if the majority of users will not use the film or video-related features (like a Video Track).

2. You're ignoring the people who choose to use (or stay on) other DAWs due to the lack of these features in Studio One.

Of course, should this be implemented, the same Studio One users who stated it wasn't worth it (or necessary) would use it as a weapon against other DAWs to poach users. It will go from being unnecessary to yet another reason why everyone should join the club! That's usually how these timelines work out


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## SonOfPeter

Trensharo said:


> As long as the features and application menus are organized well, I don't think this is a problem.
> 
> How many features a DAW has is rarely an issue. More is almost always better, because catering to more users means the DAW can sell more copies, which means they can invest more R&D into areas of the DAW you actually care about.
> 
> DAWs that have relatively contracted/niche/market segment specific user bases tend to develop slowly in areas that don't bias to the core market.
> 
> The issue people tend to have is when organization of those features becomes an issue, and when the DAW isn't designde to facilitate using them in a non-distracting manner (or in a way that doesn't become very messy or cluttered through use).
> 
> FL Studio and REAPER are good examples of DAWs that can get quite cluttered when they're loaded up with features, because the UX was not designed to handle it. They were relatively simple DAWs that grew to have large feature sets, but the base application design was never evolved "enough" to ingest that feature set and maintain UX stability.
> 
> I don't think PreSonus has that problem.
> 
> -----
> 
> Beyond that:
> 
> 1. You have no way of knowing if the majority of users will not use the film or video-related features (like a Video Track).
> 
> 2. You're ignoring the people who choose to use (or stay on) other DAWs due to the lack of these features in Studio One.
> 
> Of course, should this be implemented, the same Studio One users who stated it wasn't worth it (or necessary) would use it as a weapon against other DAWs to poach users. It will go from being unnecessary to yet another reason why everyone should join the club! That's usually how these timelines work out


As a software engineer I strongly disagree. It’s much more than a UX problem.

Linux is one of the most reliable and performant systems around (and runs much of the internet and everything else we use). It’s performance and reliability is in large part due to its ethos in small modular systems that do one thing and do it well.

With enough feature requests studio one just becomes Cubase.

I don’t think I’m making any crazy assumptions when I say most users aren’t scoring to video.

And to your point, I’m not saying studio one should not support those who do video. Only that the tools can be split in to individual applications that can talk to each other.


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## Trensharo

Fortunately, I am also a software developer by trade.


SonOfPeter said:


> Linux is one of the most reliable and performant systems around (and runs much of the internet and everything else we use). It’s performance and reliability is in large part due to its ethos in small modular systems that do one thing and do it well.


So is the Windows Kernel? I mean, Windows and IIS weren't really getting blown away by Linux LAMP stacks even back in the Windows 2003 era. Linux rising to dominate those markets has a lot to do with the economics of the matter. Why pay more money for Windows/Solaris/HP-UX/AIX/etc. licenses if you can do it with Linux for far less. Same with embedded systems...

Why pay licenses for other embedded systems (or even waste tons of R&D reinventing the wheel for the core OS stack) when you can just take Linux (or Java, even!), create Android, and keep all the profits?

If you remove all the UI and Userland bits out of a desktop OS, they all look like bastions of minimalism...

Linux, as you refer to it as a software developer is not the same as Linux as end-users refer to it. End-users will be running KDE or GNOME (or some other DE) on top of Linux, with all manner of software packages - applications, services, etc. - not a headless server with bare minimal installation payload. I'd host my Resolve Database on a headless Linux server like that though... definitely!

Linux was a failure in the consumer desktop market largely due to being incredibly unintuitive and a support nightmare. The things that make it great on the server actually killed it on the desktop, despite the low cost.

A bit of nuance is helpful when mentioning Linux and how it pertains to the market segments in which DAWs are generally targeted.


SonOfPeter said:


> With enough feature requests studio one just becomes Cubase.


How so? Most DAWs share 85%+ feature coverage with each other. 90% of the features a DAW can implement are already solved problems in another solution. Studio One is 20 years behind DAWs like Cubase, Digital Performer, Cakewalk, etc. 90% of what they've implemented thus far has been nothing more than a copy of functionality that has already existed in those other DAWs, so what different end-result are you expecting? An alternative implementation of a solved problem, in most cases...

Being less optimal to a large number of users is not a virtue in the DAW market... The market is competitive. Pricing pressures are rising as cheaper alternatives get better and better. This is only "tolerable" when you're already completely dominating specific market segments (i.e. Pro Tools with Recording Studios and Post Production).

The same people who say what you say, also said they didn't need notation in Studio One, or more advanced MIDI features, etc. But they did it anyways, for obvious reasons.

What differentiates one DAW from another is in the execution, not in a feature simply existing.

I don't see the point of a statement like this. Make it make sense, please.

The goal of PreSonus is to attract as many of as diverse a pool of users as possible. You have to implement the features those users look for in order to do that, otherwise, they will go elsewhere. Most companies are not aspiring to niche themselves off and limit their growth potential.

And frankly, I'm not seeing what the problem with Cubase is. Yes, it has a lot of features, but it is fairly well designed as far as the UI and UX are concerned... I don't think I've ever had Cubase 11 crash on me... ever. Studio has crashed tons of times, despite having far few features... which apparently are "bloat, de facto" to you. (I won't even get into the problems with that type of thinking.)


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## SonOfPeter

Trensharo said:


> Fortunately, I am also a software developer by trade.
> 
> So is the Windows Kernel? I mean, Windows and IIS weren't really getting blown away by Linux LAMP stacks even back in the Windows 2003 era. Linux rising to dominate those markets has a lot to do with the economics of the matter. Why pay more money for Windows/Solaris/HP-UX/AIX/etc. licenses if you can do it with Linux for far less. Same with embedded systems...
> 
> Why pay licenses for other embedded systems (or even waste tons of R&D reinventing the wheel for the core OS stack) when you can just take Linux (or Java, even!), create Android, and keep all the profits?
> 
> If you remove all the UI and Userland bits out of a desktop OS, they all look like bastions of minimalism...
> 
> Linux, as you refer to it as a software developer is not the same as Linux as end-users refer to it. End-users will be running KDE or GNOME (or some other DE) on top of Linux, with all manner of software packages - applications, services, etc. - not a headless server with bare minimal installation payload. I'd host my Resolve Database on a headless Linux server like that though... definitely!
> 
> Linux was a failure in the consumer desktop market largely due to being incredibly unintuitive and a support nightmare. The things that make it great on the server actually killed it on the desktop, despite the low cost.
> 
> A bit of nuance is helpful when mentioning Linux and how it pertains to the market segments in which DAWs are generally targeted.
> 
> How so? Most DAWs share 85%+ feature coverage with each other. 90% of the features a DAW can implement are already solved problems in another solution. Studio One is 20 years behind DAWs like Cubase, Digital Performer, Cakewalk, etc. 90% of what they've implemented thus far has been nothing more than a copy of functionality that has already existed in those other DAWs, so what different end-result are you expecting? An alternative implementation of a solved problem, in most cases...
> 
> Being less optimal to a large number of users is not a virtue in the DAW market... The market is competitive. Pricing pressures are rising as cheaper alternatives get better and better. This is only "tolerable" when you're already completely dominating specific market segments (i.e. Pro Tools with Recording Studios and Post Production).
> 
> The same people who say what you say, also said they didn't need notation in Studio One, or more advanced MIDI features, etc. But they did it anyways, for obvious reasons.
> 
> What differentiates one DAW from another is in the execution, not in a feature simply existing.
> 
> I don't see the point of a statement like this. Make it make sense, please.
> 
> The goal of PreSonus is to attract as many of as diverse a pool of users as possible. You have to implement the features those users look for in order to do that, otherwise, they will go elsewhere. Most companies are not aspiring to niche themselves off and limit their growth potential.
> 
> And frankly, I'm not seeing what the problem with Cubase is. Yes, it has a lot of features, but it is fairly well designed as far as the UI and UX are concerned... I don't think I've ever had Cubase 11 crash on me... ever. Studio has crashed tons of times, despite having far few features... which apparently are "bloat, de facto" to you. (I won't even get into the problems with that type of thinking.)


This response is just silly and out of touch. I’m sorry but I can’t be bothered. 

And I really didn’t mean for this discussion to be like this. Let’s just leave it at that.


----------



## Trensharo

SonOfPeter said:


> This response is just silly and out of touch. I’m sorry but I can’t be bothered.
> 
> And I really didn’t mean for this discussion to be like this. Let’s just leave it at that.


Sorry, but calling my response out of touch after comparing DAWs to Operating System Kernels and saying more feature requests will just make it like another DAW as a reason to veto the features being added...

The irony in this response is thicker than molasses.


----------



## SonOfPeter

Trensharo said:


> Sorry, but calling my response out of touch after comparing DAWs to Operating System Kernels and saying more feature requests will just make it like another DAW as a reason to veto the features being added...
> 
> The irony in this response is thicker than molasses.


Oh no I didn’t compare DAWS to operating systems. it’s the fact that you didn’t understand that, that made me realize the conversation was over.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

studio one






other daws


----------



## StillLife

chocobitz825 said:


> Studio one is a great daw. Very fluid workflow and things that it lacks are constantly being added.
> 
> Highly recommend using a tablet app for running shortcuts, or a stream deck and the profile below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Studio One Pro Stream Deck — sideshowfx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sideshowfx.net


Great link! Wasn’t aware of this company. Have an underused streamdeck that I know will use a lot more!


----------



## Lukas

Trensharo said:


> I've gotten a lot more crashes in Studio One than in Cubase - ironically when removing inserts. It's fine when actually instantiating plugins or using them, but it feels like roulette when I have to remove one.


Cubase is more tolerant than Studio One in terms of faulty plug-ins or plug-ins that don't properly confirm to the APIs. Studio One does not try to fix bugs in plug-ins, it's still their responsibility. Removing an insert means the plug-in runs its unload routines, memory is released, etc. If problems occur during this process, the plug-in crashes and the host crashes as well.

So which plug-ins in your case are the ones that are likely to crash when being removed?


----------



## Trensharo

This issue was reported on the PreSonus Forum/Web Site by more than a few users.

If Cubase were more tolerant of faulty plug-ins, I'd expect it to crash more. The same way I'd expect to suffer from food poisoning more if I were more tolerate of eating spoiled food :-P


----------



## Lukas

Lukas said:


> Studio One does not try to fix bugs in plug-ins





Trensharo said:


> This issue was reported on the PreSonus Forum/Web Site by more than a few users.


This issue? Which issue?

By the way, forums are not the best place for bug reports. Although some people at PreSonus do read forums, the official way is to create a tech support ticket.


----------



## ennbr

Trensharo said:


> This issue was reported on the PreSonus Forum/Web Site by more than a few users.


Has anyone reported this as an actual bug and opened up a support ticket or just talking about it on the Forum. The Forums are great and all but are run day to day by the community of members.


----------



## Trensharo

ennbr said:


> Has anyone reported this as an actual bug and opened up a support ticket or just talking about it on the Forum. The Forums are great and all but are run day to day by the community of members.


Ask them.


----------



## Trensharo

Lukas said:


> This issue? Which issue?


Plug-ins crashing when you remove the insert from a track.

Literally, "the issue" I mentioned in the post you responded to... ...

PreSonus has a Questions Site where people can upvote issues. If the developers aren't in tune with the issues being reported there, then that is a PreSonus issue.

The issue with Studio One crashing when removing plug-ins has been there since version 4.5, at least. It happens on both macOS and Windows.


----------



## neblix

Trensharo said:


> Plug-ins crashing when you remove the insert from a track.
> 
> Literally, "the issue" I mentioned in the post you responded to... ...
> 
> PreSonus has a Questions Site where people can upvote issues. If the developers aren't in tune with the issues being reported there, then that is a PreSonus issue.
> 
> The issue with Studio One crashing when removing plug-ins has been there since version 4.5, at least. It happens on both macOS and Windows.


I checked this out and you're way overblowing this. It has 6 upvotes (which is functionally the same as none), and the last response was in 2020. It may be some edge-case problem but it is not a ubiquitous problem in using Studio One.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

neblix said:


> I checked this out and you're way overblowing this. It has 6 upvotes (which is functionally the same as none), and the last response was in 2020. It may be some edge-case problem but it is not a ubiquitous problem in using Studio One.


not an issue here.

and then this pops up on my feed:


----------



## Lukas

Trensharo said:


> Plug-ins crashing when you remove the insert from a track.
> 
> Literally, "the issue" I mentioned in the post you responded to... ...


Plug-ins crashing is not "one" single issue - as a software developer, you are probably aware of this. And if it's the plug-ins that crash during unloading, it's not a Studio One issue, but a 3rd party plug-in issue. So this should be reported to the plug-in developers. They need to make sure their software runs reliably in all supported hosts.

And I'm still interested in which particular plug-ins you are talking about. I never had crashes when removing plug-ins - no matter if it's Kontakt, VSL Synchron Player, SINE Player, ENGINE, Fabfilter, Soundtoys etc.


----------



## ennbr

Trensharo said:


> Ask them.


I would ask but I'm not having any problems Studio One and all of my plugins are running Great!!!


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

ennbr said:


> I would ask but I'm not having any problems Studio One and all of my plugins are running Great!!!


eh?


----------



## Trensharo

neblix said:


> I checked this out and you're way overblowing this. It has 6 upvotes (which is functionally the same as none), and the last response was in 2020. It may be some edge-case problem but it is not a ubiquitous problem in using Studio One.


That's just one report. There are many reports of this issue, including on VI-Control...

And yes, it still happens.


----------



## chocobitz825

Trensharo said:


> That's just one report. There are many reports of this issue, including on VI-Control...
> 
> And yes, it still happens.


I’ve seen this issue but it’s normally resolved after updating and/or reinstalling the plugin.

In general, my only gripe is that people misrepresent DAW issues. Every daw can experience issues like this and the easiest way to see if it’s the daw or your plugins is to remove third-party plugins and see if the issue persists. Others have brought up alternative methods other daws use but there’s always a trade-off and no daw will ever run perfectly with all third-party plugs.

Hopefully, you can identify which plugins are causing you trouble.


----------



## Trensharo

ennbr said:


> Has anyone reported this as an actual bug and opened up a support ticket or just talking about it on the Forum. The Forums are great and all but are run day to day by the community of members.





Trensharo said:


> Ask them.





ennbr said:


> I would ask but I'm not having any problems Studio One and all of my plugins are running Great!!!


Please make this make sense...


----------



## ennbr

This issue was reported on the PreSonus Forum/Web Site by more than a few users.

If Cubase were more tolerant of faulty plug-ins, I'd expect it to crash more. The same way I'd expect to suffer from food poisoning more if I were more tolerate of eating spoiled food :-P



ennbr said:


> Has anyone reported this as an actual bug and opened up a support ticket or just talking about it on the Forum. The Forums are great and all but are run day to day by the community of members.





Trensharo said:


> Ask them.





ennbr said:


> I would ask but I'm not having any problems Studio One and all of my plugins are running Great!!!





Trensharo said:


> Please make this make sense...


This was in reply to a comment about users on the Presonus Forums talking about the same problem Not having see the thread on the presonus forum or a link being provided I was asking if anyone had reported the problem to Presonus Support.

I think it was a valid question if presonus support has been notified through the proper channels. 

My point again is that the Presonus forums are not how you get something fixed in Studio One. They are user run forums support may check in time to time but it's not how you report a problem.

Does that answer your questilon.


----------



## Lukas

In this case the problem is to be reported to the plug-in manufacturers and not to PreSonus.



ennbr said:


> My point again is that the Presonus forums are not how you get something fixed in Studio One. They are user run forums support may check in time to time but it's not how you report a problem.


Exactly. Posting about crashing plug-ins on the PreSonus forum doesn't help anyone.... and certainly does not lead to the problem being fixed.


----------



## Trensharo

ennbr said:


> This issue was reported on the PreSonus Forum/Web Site by more than a few users.
> 
> If Cubase were more tolerant of faulty plug-ins, I'd expect it to crash more. The same way I'd expect to suffer from food poisoning more if I were more tolerate of eating spoiled food :-P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was in reply to a comment about users on the Presonus Forums talking about the same problem Not having see the thread on the presonus forum or a link being provided I was asking if anyone had reported the problem to Presonus Support.
> 
> I think it was a valid question if presonus support has been notified through the proper channels.
> 
> My point again is that the Presonus forums are not how you get something fixed in Studio One. They are user run forums support may check in time to time but it's not how you report a problem.
> 
> Does that answer your questilon.


I think that flew well over your head.

You asked me, I told you to ask them, and your reply was... "I don't want to ask, because WorksForMe™."

The PreSonus site where people report issues and make feature requests is a completely different thing from the PreSonus Studio One user forums. Apparently, you aren't the only person oblivious to this.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

WorksForMe™

or a fan fave:

IGM™ - I Got Mine


----------



## joebaggan

I tried Studio One and had multiple crashes with it. So not going back to that and can't agree wtih the "In Praise of" sentiment. I can live with a few things in a DAW that I may not like, but can't live with crashing and losing my work.


----------



## EgM

joebaggan said:


> I tried Studio One and had multiple crashes with it. So not going back to that and can't agree wtih the "In Praise of" sentiment. I can live with a few things in a DAW that I may not like, but can't live with crashing and losing my work.



Been using it as primary DAW since 4.x came out and I got auto save off, I'm that confident with it.

I honestly don't remember the last time it crashed. Badly written plugins is the reason for 90% of the crashes.


----------



## axb312

Hi @Lukas When are you're Macros to to work with Libs like CSS coming to Studio One? Will they be customizable for other libs as well?


----------



## aka70

Never had any big problems with Studio One 5, and the template I use it's pretty big. The only annoying thing for my it's the unloading time when you close a project, but that's mostly Kontakt, not S1 problem. I had the same problem with Cubase. Maybe that's connected with big libraries or heavy libraries I don't know. 

The workflow in S1 is amazing, I've created multiple macros for anything I need and Sound Variations is fantastic. Regarding CPU, I've got Rico's template for CSS and it performs better than Cubase. 

Video implementation needs a lot of work, but for my need not a big problem!


----------



## ComposerWannabe

Studio One used to have this little plugin/addon (3rd party) enabling you to select every 4th note, 8th note, or the notes with the same pitch.

Is it still around?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

The auto-save that locks the project up is pretty annoying.


----------



## aka70

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The auto-save that locks the project up is pretty annoying.


That's true, that's very annoying but now I'm using VEP 7 for all the libraries so the save it's like an instant.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

ALittleNightMusic said:


> The auto-save that locks the project up is pretty annoying.


change it


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Zoot_Rollo said:


> change it


I did - to Cubase. 😂

You can turn off / delay auto save in S1, but you can’t remove the lock up. Hopefully they address it in the next update.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I did - to Cubase. 😂
> 
> You can turn off / delay auto save in S1, but you can’t remove the lock up. Hopefully they address it in the next update.


?

first,

"The auto-save that locks the project up is pretty annoying."

then,

"You can turn off / delay auto save in S1, but you can’t remove the lock up."

what?

so, the auto-save isn't causing the lock up, but you have issue with auto-save causing the lock up?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I did - to Cubase. 😂


I own Cubase.

I'd rather use Cakewalk DOS.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Zoot_Rollo said:


> ?
> 
> first,
> 
> "The auto-save that locks the project up is pretty annoying."
> 
> then,
> 
> "You can turn off / delay auto save in S1, but you can’t remove the lock up."
> 
> what?
> 
> so, the auto-save isn't causing the lock up, but you have issue with auto-save causing the lock up?


Do you use S1? This seems hard for you to understand which makes me wonder if you use it. Auto-saving in S1 blocks you from doing anything while it is auto-saving. You can turn it off, but then it won't auto-save. Other DAWs can auto-save in the background without locking up the project.



Zoot_Rollo said:


> I own Cubase.
> 
> I'd rather use Cakewalk DOS.


I bet. I'm sure all the professional composers using Cubase will now try out Cakewalk based on your recommendation.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Do you use S1? This seems hard for you to understand which makes me wonder if you use it. Auto-saving in S1 blocks you from doing anything while it is auto-saving. You can turn it off, but then it won't auto-save. Other DAWs can auto-save in the background without locking up the project.
> 
> 
> I bet. I'm sure all the professional composers using Cubase will now try out Cakewalk based on your recommendation.


yes, I use it; since version 3.

your statements contradicted each other was my point. just having a little fun.

very little, apparently.

i do not have the lock up issue with auto save set for 5 minutes.

and yes, i am a trailblazer!


----------



## chocobitz825

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Do you use S1? This seems hard for you to understand which makes me wonder if you use it. Auto-saving in S1 blocks you from doing anything while it is auto-saving. You can turn it off, but then it won't auto-save. Other DAWs can auto-save in the background without locking up the project.
> 
> 
> I bet. I'm sure all the professional composers using Cubase will now try out Cakewalk based on your recommendation.


The autosave was resolved in v5. They introduced a way to cache saves so autosave doesn’t take as long and doesn’t lock up when closing. Auto-save now is virtually invisible now.


----------



## joebaggan

Zoot_Rollo said:


> I own Cubase.
> 
> I'd rather use Cakewalk DOS.


So Cubase is good enough for Hans Zimmer and a gazillon other top pros, but not good enough for you? Sorry to hear it.


----------



## chocobitz825

joebaggan said:


> So Cubase is good enough for Hans Zimmer and a gazillon other top pros, but not good enough for you? Sorry to hear it.


Given that the only major difference between daws is workflow, this is a lame defense of any daw. “Good enough for _______” means nothing. Cubase is not of some superior quality to logic, ableton, studio one or any other daw. It’s just the workflow that works for them.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

chocobitz825 said:


> The autosave was resolved in v5. They introduced a way to cache saves so autosave doesn’t take as long and doesn’t lock up when closing. Auto-save now is virtually invisible now.


I have the latest version of v5 but it still blocks me. I’m not sure if I need to turn on some special setting? I have use cached plugin data on save already checked.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi

ComposerWannabe said:


> Studio One used to have this little plugin/addon (3rd party) enabling you to select every 4th note, 8th note, or the notes with the same pitch.
> 
> Is it still around?


It is and it is even better - now S1 has those features natively.


----------



## Lukas

ComposerWannabe said:


> Studio One used to have this little plugin/addon (3rd party) enabling you to select every 4th note, 8th note, or the notes with the same pitch.


It's part of the Music Editing Toolbar I built for version 4. Open the Macro Toolbar and select the page "Music Editing".



axb312 said:


> Hi @Lukas When are you're Macros to to work with Libs like CSS coming to Studio One? Will they be customizable for other libs as well?


You're probably referring to the Nudge Notes command. Hopefully soon. And yes, you will be able to add custom macros for any library / preset.


----------



## Tralen

Lukas said:


> Did you know that sandboxing introduces massive additional latency? Sandboxing never comes without its price - many think so.


How that prevents them from offering Sandboxing as an option so we can handle a misbehaving plugin?


----------



## Trensharo

chocobitz825 said:


> Given that the only major difference between daws is workflow, this is a lame defense of any daw. “Good enough for _______” means nothing. Cubase is not of some superior quality to logic, ableton, studio one or any other daw. It’s just the workflow that works for them.


Workflow isn't the only difference. Not sure why this is so oft repeated.

There are functional differences.


joebaggan said:


> So Cubase is good enough for Hans Zimmer and a gazillon other top pros, but not good enough for you? Sorry to hear it.


Take that as a compliment.

Studio One users are challenging the REAPER community for the top spot on the spectrum of fanaticism. When people feel threatened by a claim, they often break out the fantastical suppositions, or resort to a stawman...


----------



## joebaggan

Why do people get so defensive about the DAW they end up choosing?


I have: Mixbus 32c Pro Tools Studio One 5 Cubase 10.5 Reaper 6 Reason 12 I use S1 the majority of the time and use the Rack from Reason. I’m not particularly loyal to any of these DAWs.But a lot of people are and defend their choice with upmost vigour. Why is this? What do people gain from...




vi-control.net


----------



## Pappaus

I actually enjoy the DAW war discussions because I usually learn a lot about the two DAWS. I own both and Cubase gives me a headache. This is mainly due to the fact Cubase is new to me and Studio One has been a friend for many years. I am really going to spend this year learning Cubase so I can really get the best out of both because they are both quality products with their own ups and downs. Once I can get up to speed on Cubase, I can begin to help attack the true enemy — Ableton Live


----------



## chocobitz825

Trensharo said:


> Workflow isn't the only difference. Not sure why this is so oft repeated.
> 
> There are functional differences.
> 
> Take that as a compliment.
> 
> Studio One users are challenging the REAPER community for the top spot on the spectrum of fanaticism. When people feel threatened by a claim, they often break out the fantastical suppositions, or resort to a stawman...


That's not the argument that was made. It being "good enough for Hans Zimmer " means nothing. That's the software and workflow Hans prefers. If you want to talk about missing features, either one can have the upper hand depending on your needs and workflow. As someone who has studio one, logic, pro tools, cubase, ableton, mixbus and Luna, I can say, they're all sufficient professional tools, and who uses them does not imply that they are better or worse tools for the jobs we're doing with them.

You want a generally speedier workflow with better options for dropping instruments and effects in and out, studio one is great. You want a daw with better notation integration and video capabilities for scoring? Cubase has the upper hand. Better analog emulation? Mixbus or Luna. Tons of automated creative tools? Logic. All great tools, none inherently better than the other. Just different.


----------



## Trensharo

I didn't say that was an argument being made (why is "argument" always the go to term?). I said what you stated in your reply, as a lead-off, is incorrect. And it is. And it's often repeated on forums - this "all DAWs can do the same thing/are just as good" mantra, as a way to minimalize disparities between competing solutions. Hillariously... while the DAW companies themselves are spending their marketing budget on illuminating these same disparities!

Saying Studio One is "fine for Mixing" is not the same as evaluating the relative disparity between it and something like Pro Tools in that field. Saying it's "fine for Mastering" is not the same as evaluating the disparity between it and something like WaveLab in that field. Saying it's "fine for Audio Recording and Editing" is not the same as examining the disparity between it and something like Samplitude Pro X in that field. Saying it's "fine for Composition" is not the same as examining the disparity between it and something like Digital Performer in that field.

Again, having features is not the same as having features that are _as good_, _as extensive_, _or as productive_ as a competing solution. How does dropping instruments and plug-ins in and out help me edit audio faster, or create better crossfades?

Often, these statements completely ignore the extent of the disparity; instead, looking only at the existence of certain surface-level tooling in the DAW. Details are rarely discussed.

I'd even say that this is why developers sometimes implement half-finished/half-assed features in software. As long as they fill in the "bullet point," most users will take it at face value. They never look beyond what they are told, and only find out the details after they've made the [often, non-refundable] purchase.


> All great tools, none inherently better than the other. Just different.


You tell us how some DAWs are inherently better than others, and then say none are inherently better than others... Why do such oxymorons always feature in these discussions?

All DAWs are different. If they weren't, they'd be the same product. That reality doesn't delete disparities in feature set of the potency of shared feature sets between different solutions.

It's up to the user to choose where to make those concessions, for what gains they are looking for. This should be done when they make their value estimation for a product, particularly in comparison to competing solutions.

You do this for a living. Act like a business 


Pappaus said:


> I actually enjoy the DAW war discussions because I usually learn a lot about the two DAWS. I own both and Cubase gives me a headache. This is mainly due to the fact Cubase is new to me and Studio One has been a friend for many years. I am really going to spend this year learning Cubase so I can really get the best out of both because they are both quality products with their own ups and downs. Once I can get up to speed on Cubase, I can begin to help attack the true enemy — Ableton Live


DAW wars are nothing but techno-political posturing from fanboys and diplomatic drivel from people who are trying as hard as possible to appease both/all sides (see the above quote).

Useful information can be gotten from them, but most is dripping in bias and subjectiveness. You have to tear that away and do your own evaluation. These debates are more useful as a guide than anything else.


----------



## chocobitz825

Trensharo said:


> I didn't say that was an argument being made. I said what you stated in your reply, as a lead-off, is incorrect. And it is. And it's often repeated on forums, this "all DAWs can do the same thing" mantra, as a way to minimalize disparities between competing solutions.
> 
> Saying Studio One is "find for Mixing" is not the same as evaluating the relative disparity between it and something like Pro Tools in that field. Saying it's "find for Mastering" is not the same as evaluating the disparity between it and something like WaveLab in that field. Saying it's "find for Audio Recording and Editing" is not the same as examining the disparity between it and something like Samplitude Pro X in that field.
> 
> Often, these statements completely ignore the extent of the disparity - instead looking only at the existence of certain surface-level tooling in the DAW. Details are rarely discussed.
> 
> And I disagree. Some DAWs are inherently better than others. In the real world, some things actually are better than other things. That's the reality of the matter.


Fine, more accurate statement..

Given the environment where most people are using third-party plugins to create their ideal toolset to accomplish the tasks on the plate, most daws provide you with the most basic foundations to accomplish almost any task. This leaves the workflow (and feature set to match that workflow) as the most obvious determining factor for choosing your daw. 

The conclusion is the same, depending on your workflow and needs, your choice of daw will change. there is no inherently better daw if the daw you choose leads you to your intended result. It’s a pointless argument based on subjective standards. I don’t care for FL Studio, but plenty of professionals from pop to composing use it. Some people even make die with mobile daws.


----------



## chocobitz825

Trensharo said:


> I didn't say that was an argument being made (why is "argument" always the go to term?). I said what you stated in your reply, as a lead-off, is incorrect. And it is. And it's often repeated on forums - this "all DAWs can do the same thing/are just as good" mantra, as a way to minimalize disparities between competing solutions. Hillariously... while the DAW companies themselves are spending their marketing budget on illuminating these same disparities!
> 
> Saying Studio One is "fine for Mixing" is not the same as evaluating the relative disparity between it and something like Pro Tools in that field. Saying it's "fine for Mastering" is not the same as evaluating the disparity between it and something like WaveLab in that field. Saying it's "fine for Audio Recording and Editing" is not the same as examining the disparity between it and something like Samplitude Pro X in that field. Saying it's "fine for Composition" is not the same as examining the disparity between it and something like Digital Performer in that field.
> 
> Again, having features is not the same as having features that are _as good_, _as extensive_, _or as productive_ as a competing solution. How does dropping instruments and plug-ins in and out help me edit audio faster, or create better crossfades?
> 
> Often, these statements completely ignore the extent of the disparity; instead, looking only at the existence of certain surface-level tooling in the DAW. Details are rarely discussed.
> 
> I'd even say that this is why developers sometimes implement half-finished/half-assed features in software. As long as they fill in the "bullet point," most users will take it at face value. They never look beyond what they are told, and only find out the details after they've made the [often, non-refundable] purchase.
> 
> You tell us how some DAWs are inherently better than others, and then say none are inherently better than others... Why do such oxymorons always feature in these discussions?
> 
> All DAWs are different. If they weren't, they'd be the same product. That reality doesn't delete disparities in feature set of the potency of shared feature sets between different solutions.
> 
> It's up to the user to choose where to make those concessions, for what gains they are looking for. This should be done when they make their value estimation for a product, particularly in comparison to competing solutions.
> 
> You do this for a living. Act like a business
> 
> DAW wars are nothing but techno-political posturing from fanboys and diplomatic drivel from people who are trying as hard as possible to appease both/all sides (see the above quote).
> 
> Useful information can be gotten from them, but most is dripping in bias and subjectiveness. You have to tear that away and do your own evaluation. These debates are more useful as a guide than anything else.


None of these features matter if they don’t match your workflow. It doesn’t matter if one is better for mastering if it’s not a workflow you invest in and master. “Sufficient” mastering tools in one daw can be more than enough if your focus is a daw that lets you go from song start to master as quick as possible without having to split the task between two specialized daws. To determine what daw is best, requires talking about your needs. 

Are you a mastering engineer? Are you a composer? Pop writer? Hobbyist? Do you use a lot of hardware? All in the box? What are your specs? Any of these have differences we can discuss, but at the end of the day, no matter the recommendation, or who else uses X product, one’s commitment to mastering their workflow is the only thing that matters. So you won’t have me here saying studio one is the best daw hands down, and contrary to the previous argument “cubase is good enough for hans” plenty of people find that at some point even the “best” daws don’t work for them and their needs.


----------



## Trensharo

chocobitz825 said:


> None of these features matter if they don’t match your workflow. It doesn’t matter if one is better for mastering if it’s not a workflow you invest in and master. “Sufficient” mastering tools in one daw can be more than enough if your focus is a daw that lets you go from song start to master as quick as possible without having to split the task between two specialized daws. To determine what daw is best, requires talking about your needs.


Workflow is about UX - subjective. Feature Disparity is deal with capabilities - objective. The fact that, for example, Studio One is anemic for Audio Editing compared to Pro Tools or Samplitude Pro X has nothing at all to do with workflow. It has to do with things that are objective that you can literally open these DAWs up and experience. The fact that I cannot drag and drop plug-ins in Samplitude doesn't matter. It's still 3x faster to get the editing done than Studio One, due to its capabilities and proficiency in that area.

You keep going on about Workflow (common on music production forums), but that's literally ignorable. People choose their preferences. You can't choose for Studio One to be better than another DAW at something the other DAW is, objectively, superior at. That is baked into the design and proficiency of the features that exist in these DAWs (at any given point in time - software can be changed over time).  Being more pleasant to use doesn't means that I will gain in productivity as a result.

For some functions, people will take the [subjectively] less attractive user experience or workflow because that solution's proficiency in a specific area of functionality is more valuable - in a quantifiable way. This is why even some of the DAWs with "worse workflow or UX" (or rather, unpopular workflows and UXes) remain very popular...

Workflow is a usability term, not a term that describes a particular solution's capability in any specific area. It describes a manner of accomplishing tasks, not proficiency accomplishing them. Whether or not you prefer "how Studio One" does something is ignorable when it literally can't do the thing you want to do - or does it with enough disparity in proficiency (not in its favor - in some cases, even disparity in quality) that you actually save more time (or money - or deliver higher quality output) using the competing solution, instead.


chocobitz825 said:


> Are you a mastering engineer? Are you a composer? Pop writer? Hobbyist? Do you use a lot of hardware? All in the box? What are your specs? Any of these have differences we can discuss, but at the end of the day, no matter the recommendation, or who else uses X product, one’s commitment to mastering their workflow is the only thing that matters.


See above.

Also, these are completely unnecessary rhetorical questions, as my point wasn't to typecast any specific user into different market segments. It's to highlight that there are areas of functionality in certain DAWs which are superior over all others. Some specialist (WaveLab - Mastering DAW), and some general purpose (Samplitude Pro X - General Purpose DAW, but with biases to Audio).

Most people choosing Studio One or Cubase are doing so because they want a general purpose DAW - otherwise they'd cherry pick the best of the best in each market segment... which costs more, but probably would end up paying for itself over time; assuming they are decent at learning how to use software and doing actual paid work with them. Many people produce in one DAW and mix in Pro Tools for... ... precicely this reason.

*As I stated at the end of that previous reply, choosing a DAW is a balancing act of deciding what concessions you are willing to accept for which gains.*


chocobitz825 said:


> So you won’t have me here saying studio one is the best daw hands down, and contrary to the previous argument “cubase is good enough for hans” *plenty of people find that at some point even the “best” daws don’t work for them and their needs*.


We'd have to examine the rationale given for this. Additionally, we'd have to examine the market segments in which these users operate.

I don't think of DAWs in terms of best. I think of them in terms of what is optimal for a specific user - so... "best for them." See bolded sentence above for why.


----------



## GMT

When I started home music about 5 years ago, I tried a few different DAWs - freebies and trials - amd settled on Studio One quickly. It just made more sense to me than the others and I was looking for an intuitive workflow so that I don't need to think about the DAW - just the music. A friend of mine feels the same way about Cubase. Workflow is a personal thing. I'm still working on Studio One v3.5. 

The only issues for me are when trying to score to video (which I rarely do) and also I can't seem to use my Korg Nano Kontrol faders with it. 

Glad I saw this thread though. I had never heard of streamdeck. Looks like a nice way of setting up my key commands without stretching to my keyboard. I hate stretching.


----------



## Lukas

ka00 said:


> Crashes sometimes when duplicating an instrument track sometimes (Omnisphere, Arturia, Komplete Kontrol, could be anything really) or when removing an insert (again, seems random).


...so actually the plug-in crashes during loading.

I never had such problems even on my older system. Omnisphere and Arturia plug-ins running fine in Studio One here. Are you on Windows or Mac? And have you checked if the plug-ins you use are on their latest versions? (And if you're on MacOS: Do you use the VST or AU versions?)


----------



## antsteep

7 weeks in for daily use with a big template. Not a single crash so far. CPU is fine too. Not as great at handling it as Logic, but nothing that is concerning me

I have a 300 instrument template deactivated template with 9 sub groups


----------



## muziksculp

Studio One Pro 5 on Windows 10 is my main, and only DAW. Love it !

I have been thinking about adding a notation program to my workflow, i.e. Notion 6, anyone here using both S1Pro 5 with Notion 6 ? How do you like the close integration between them ? and how easy is it to use your VST Sample Libraries in Notion 6 ?

I'm also curious when Notion 7 will be released ? 

Thanks


----------



## Robert Kooijman

Studio One Pro 5.4 running now almost a month here on Windows 11.
Mostly stable, can't remember it crashing, believe it or not 
But every now and then I have to kill the process in the task manager, e.g. when trying to (accidentally) copy Vepro instances that are already used in the song, or when hiding / unhiding 100+ template tracks using visibility functions. These things can take ages. And sadly, when a Studio One Remote is connected (and activated in the mixer view) things get even worse. We're talking of *minutes* here: totally crazy.

This is also my biggest gripe with Studio One: performance at larger track counts. There really is a lot of optimization to be done. Otherwise, it's an amazing DAW.


----------



## Lukas

Robert Kooijman said:


> This is also my biggest gripe with Studio One: performance at larger track counts. There really is a lot of optimization to be done.


Yes, definitely. PreSonus knows about this and is working on it.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Are there plans to include a search box or a way to set global defaults for MIDI automation lanes? This list can become enormous with some instruments (like the Synchron player) - finding stuff like Expression is a chore.


----------



## rtmusic

Studio One (4.6) is the first DAW I didn't feel compelled to update when a major upgrade was released. It just works. Maybe I've reached 'peak gear' .... nah.


----------



## robgb

I used it for a number of years. It's a great DAW. But in my personal experience the customer service is lacking, which is why I switched to another DAW. That and the constant, unrelenting crashes.


----------



## von Klamke

I very much like working in SO5, quit using Live because of the crashes and lacking (then) comping options. The only beefs I have with it now is: 
1. sluggish UI - try using ORB in Omnisphere, particularly in REC mode - no smooth movement is possible as it refreshes like twice a second or so at best, even when it is the only track. Wrapping it in Komplete Kontrol makes it even worse.

2. Lack of possibility to route audio to a vsti - resulting in very limited usability of vocoder (Arturia's one being a good example).

3. Video handling - plenty was written here, so nothing more from me.


----------



## Patrick B.

Pier said:


> Did you know that Bitwig can run plugins in a sandbox mode so it the plugin misbehaves it doesn't bring the whole DAW down?
> 
> Just sayin...


I think every DAW should implement this tbh. 

Long time S1 user since v2. Came from Sonar and wanted something cross platform so I could transition to Mac overtime and not relearn a new DAW. I’ve been mostly very happy but do get crashing. I like that v5 will tell you which plug-in caused the crash though. 

I find Logic more CPU efficient but I prefer S1’s comping layer workflow and automation lanes seemed more flexible and easier to edit. 

I wish it had more powerful MIDI FX like Logic though.


----------



## Patrick B.

Lukas said:


> Did you know that sandboxing introduces massive additional latency? Sandboxing never comes without its price - many think so.


Interesting… didn’t realize that. I picked up BitWig on sale but haven’t dug in to compare latency times yet.


----------



## Patrick B.

Trensharo said:


> I've gotten a lot more crashes in Studio One than in Cubase - ironically when removing inserts. It's fine when actually instantiating plugins or using them, but it feels like roulette when I have to remove one. I would always save before doing this, because I didn't know if it was going to crash or not.
> 
> I haven't gotten any in Digital Performer, thus far, but that's probably because it will blacklist anything that fails/crashes the scanner that check plug-ins. Mitigation via paranoia, in a way. Since I tend to install both VST2 and VST3, I simply replace the VST3's that fail with their counterpart VST2's, which generally pass the scan (at least that is how it has worked out thus far).
> 
> DP has a pre-gen system that generates audio ahead of the wiper, though, so latency isn't a huge deal there even for plug-ins that introduce it. IIRC, Samplitude Pro X's Hybrid Engine does something similar (it pre-buffers things ahead of the play head during playback, mitigating this, which is why there's a short pause when you first initiate playback in a project).
> 
> I wonder how many other DAWs have implemented a similar solution (anyone know?).
> 
> If PreSonus implement a sandbox + a system like this, then latency is unlikely to be an issue unless you force the DAW into real-time/live playback mode (or whatever they'd call it).


Interestingly I think a lot my plug-in crashes are the same; they tend to be caused by removing certain plug-ins. And I also will do a paranoid save beforehand for these as it seems like rolling the dice 😅


----------



## Patrick B.

Lukas said:


> Plug-ins crashing is not "one" single issue - as a software developer, you are probably aware of this. And if it's the plug-ins that crash during unloading, it's not a Studio One issue, but a 3rd party plug-in issue. So this should be reported to the plug-in developers. They need to make sure their software runs reliably in all supported hosts.
> 
> And I'm still interested in which particular plug-ins you are talking about. I never had crashes when removing plug-ins - no matter if it's Kontakt, VSL Synchron Player, SINE Player, ENGINE, Fabfilter, Soundtoys etc.


I want to say some SoundToys stuff like Little Plate, Relab Sonsig Rev-A, Kontakt 5, Battery 4, Output Movement, and maybe EWQL Play engine.

I’m on MacOS Catalina last build. S1 5.4. 

Some of the above crashes may be fixed in latest versions… I haven’t tried to track which plug-in crashed at which version etc. 

And to be fair I’ve yet to find a DAW that doesn’t crash sometimes: Live, Sonar, S1, Logic… and I understand it’s usually a 3rd party plug to blame. 

I keep coming back to S1 as my main DAW although Live has gotten more useful since comping and improved automation was added.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Patrick B. said:


> And to be fair I’ve yet to find a DAW that doesn’t crash sometimes: Live, Sonar, S1, Logic… and I understand it’s usually a 3rd party plug to blame.


I have had Cubase and Logic crash on my system too - but S1 crashes much more frequently in my experience (using the same plugins as I'm on the same machine for all DAWs). S1 just crashed yesterday when I was setting up a template with only the Synchron Player. Added the same tracks to my main Cubase template and it was rock solid - Cubase is very solid for me now (though SINE can still cause issues).


----------



## Lukas

ALittleNightMusic said:


> S1 just crashed yesterday when I was setting up a template with only the Synchron Player. Added the same tracks to my main Cubase template and it was rock solid - Cubase is very solid for me now (though SINE can still cause issues)


Plug-ins crashing in one host but not in another host in certain situations is nothing unusual. That's why plug-ins need to be tested in different DAWs, on different systems etc.

When a plug-in crashes, the host crashes as well (unless sandboxed...).


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lukas said:


> Plug-ins crashing in one host but not in another host in certain situations is nothing unusual. That's why plug-ins need to be tested in different DAWs, on different systems etc.


Sure - but S1 still crashes more often than Logic or Cubase. Is that because these plugin developers aren't testing S1? Or is it because S1 needs to be more robust? Either way - it should be on Presonus to resolve the problem. Talk to the developers and make sure S1 is part of their core tests. Or figure out a way to better sandbox the program.


----------



## Lukas

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Are there plans to include a search box or a way to set global defaults for MIDI automation lanes?


I'm absolutely looking forward to more automation lane improvements 



ALittleNightMusic said:


> Either way - it should be on Presonus to resolve the problem.


No not really - as long it's a plug-in issue. If I'm a plug-in developer, it's on me to make sure my plug-in runs reliably in all supported hosts. If my plug-in runs fine in REAPER but crashes in Cubase, I don't expect Steinberg to fix this. It's not the DAW's job to fix bugs in every single free Synthedit plug-in out there.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lukas said:


> No not really. If I'm a plug-in developer, it's on me to make sure my plug-in runs reliably in all supported hosts. It's not the DAW's job to fix bugs in every single free Synthedit plug-in out there.


I really hope this is not Presonus's official position. "You bought our software, if it doesn't work with the most popular and commonly used plugins - tough luck." Synchron Player is not "every single Synthedit plugin".


----------



## Lukas

If there's something wrong with the DAW's implementation of the APIs, sure, this needs to be fixed. If a plug-in crashes because it doesn't confirm to a protocol / API, returns invalid data, etc. then the plug-in should fix it. Pretty simple, I suppose.


----------



## musicmakerbird

Trash Panda said:


> I liked Studio One while using it. The Sound Variations are awesome and the way they have started integrating with the notation view is amazing.
> 
> I'm hoping these areas can get addressed at some point so using Reaper as a workhorse is less attractive.
> 
> CPU performance improvements, particularly with multi-threading
> Hot-key assignable CC curve types and CC item attribute management
> Floating windows that function like standard program windows and follow usual Windows OS behaviors
> Ability to open a blank project without having to create and save a project first for when I want to quickly hop in and try something out without this extra step
> Instrument panel and menu behavior not getting wonky when 100+ instruments are in a project
> The performance is the biggest area of importance to me though, because I'm already pushing my PCs to their limits with some libraries and won't be able to upgrade for awhile.


Reaper isn't that bad. Tried it out a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## musicmakerbird

Trensharo said:


> Workflow isn't the only difference. Not sure why this is so oft repeated.
> 
> There are functional differences.
> 
> Take that as a compliment.
> 
> Studio One users are challenging the REAPER community for the top spot on the spectrum of fanaticism. When people feel threatened by a claim, they often break out the fantastical suppositions, or resort to a stawman...


I think Studio One's challenge's is the FL Studio's or Ableton's, do to the fact many of the upcoming music makers are using it.


----------



## musicmakerbird

Robert Kooijman said:


> Studio One Pro 5.4 running now almost a month here on Windows 11.
> Mostly stable, can't remember it crashing, believe it or not
> But every now and then I have to kill the process in the task manager, e.g. when trying to (accidentally) copy Vepro instances that are already used in the song, or when hiding / unhiding 100+ template tracks using visibility functions. These things can take ages. And sadly, when a Studio One Remote is connected (and activated in the mixer view) things get even worse. We're talking of *minutes* here: totally crazy.
> 
> This is also my biggest gripe with Studio One: performance at larger track counts. There really is a lot of optimization to be done. Otherwise, it's an amazing DAW.





muziksculp said:


> Studio One Pro 5 on Windows 10 is my main, and only DAW. Love it !
> 
> I have been thinking about adding a notation program to my workflow, i.e. Notion 6, anyone here using both S1Pro 5 with Notion 6 ? How do you like the close integration between them ? and how easy is it to use your VST Sample Libraries in Notion 6 ?
> 
> I'm also curious when Notion 7 will be released ?
> 
> Thanks


The integration is fine. It get's updates here, and their. The IOS app is popular. The original team who worked on Notion in North Carolina I believe don't work on it anymore. The Hamburg team does. Pay attention to the development of Notion, as compared to Studio One or Fender software related products.


----------



## musicmakerbird

I'm interested to see how Studio One does under Fender. Been using it since if first came out. It's some tough competition as rumors of an Arturia DAW coming, FL Studio 21, and more.


----------



## Trash Panda

musicmakerbird said:


> Reaper isn't that bad. Tried it out a couple of weeks ago.


Oh I know. I love Reaper. I want to live Studio One just as much.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Finally figured out the Parameter Automation link between S1 and VEP7.

I'm sure that's a Cakewalk for most of you, but it was the last little bit in dialing in my final workflow.

Sweet pair.


----------



## G_Erland

Started getting msvcp40.dll blocked on startup scan. Anybody know what thats about?


----------



## Trensharo

musicmakerbird said:


> The integration is fine. It get's updates here, and their. The IOS app is popular. The original team who worked on Notion in North Carolina I believe don't work on it anymore. The Hamburg team does. Pay attention to the development of Notion, as compared to Studio One or Fender software related products.


Notion 7 is quite a ways off. I'm better off using that time becoming proficient in Dorico, and I'm not going to want to switch just because they released a shiny new version of Notion.

I do think the iOS app is fabulous, though, and use it heavily.


----------



## Villanao

I’ve gotten more crashes in REAPER than S1 this past year 😐


----------



## cqd

I bought it 6 months ago and messed around a bit, but still tend to use pro tools automatically..
I ended up reselling cubase a couple of years ago, but I will try to get a handle on s1..
I'm going to be hooking it up to vepro, does that take care of the high track count issue?..
What are the standout features do ye think coming from another daw?..


----------



## samphony

ka00 said:


> I'm afraid it doesn't. You don't even need to have any instruments created for the slow down caused by high track counts to be an issue. I have to assume Presonus is working on optimizing that.


Just be patient that is probably something that gets fixed down the line.


----------



## muziksculp

Trensharo said:


> Notion 7 is quite a ways off.


really ? 

Notion 6 was released August 25th, 2016, we will be in 2022 a few days from now. How much longer do they need to release Notion 7 ?

If they used all this development time smartly, they would have a very tightly integrated Notion 7 with Studio One Pro. That would be the a no brainer given they will also boost studio one pro sales, or Sphere subscriptions. 

Actually, I decided to join the Presonus Sphere, and did so yesterday. I get Notion 6 and lots of add-ons for S1Pro, and many other benefits.


----------



## gnapier

I’be been a bit of a “serial bigamist” when it comes to DAWs. I go through long stretches where I commit almost exclusively to just two them. (I’ve always kept two DAWs with very different workflows in my arsenal during any one period so that I have more than one workflow approach available.) I’ve used Studio One off and on since version 1, but since version 4, it’s always been one of the main two. (Bitwig has occupied slot 2 more often than not in the last few years.)

A big plus for me with S1 is it’s native support for Slate’s Raven. That integration has made S1 my primary production DAW for paid work. i recently moved my OS to Big Sur, and Slate doesn’t officially support it yet*, so I was forced to look for another DAW that would allow me to recreate my Raven-based workflows (sans multitouch screen support) using just the DAW.

So I’ve been exploring Reaper in depth over the past month. I’ve never liked Reaper because of its extreme customizability, but I find that not to be such a problem when I have a definite destination/workflow that I am trying to customize towards.

Anyway, I love StudioOne as a work environment. I have found it to be extremely stable for me. I do wish it would allow some of the workflow customization options (e.g., more extensive key command set, things like SWS Extensions) you can find in Reaper.

* - Found out later that Studio One, Raven, and Big Sur works fine! 🙂 But I had already become intrigued by Reaper…


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Studio One - VEP7 - Import Song Data

final workflow


----------



## chibear

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Studio One - VEP7 - Import Song Data
> 
> final workflow


Curious. With using Import Song Data, what advantage does VEP provide?


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

chibear said:


> Curious. With using Import Song Data, what advantage does VEP provide?


I have 2 PCs networked each with a license of VEP7 Server.

Across those 2 VEP7 servers I have ALL of my libraries and instruments loaded in 2 master templates (1 in each server).

In Studio One, I have a master template that links to the 2 VEP7 master template files.

I have the tracks setup as folder buses for each VEP7 instance (strings, brass, woodwinds, solo strings - chris hein, etc.)

In Studio One, the VEP7 plugins are disconnected and decoupled. VERY fast loading and swapping of VEP7 instances.

With a new project, I won't need the full template, so I'll create a new song and use Import Song Data to select what i need.

Import Song Data is great - it can maintain the folder structure, the sends, instruments, etc.

I've beaten this workflow to death, this is my current fave.


----------



## muziksculp

Zoot_Rollo said:


> With a new project, I won't need the full template, so I'll create a new song and use Import Song Data to select what i need.


So, you are importing song data from your Studio One Master template, which is linked to the VE-Pro instances, into a new blank song, (Correct) ? Just want to know if I understand how you have it setup.

Thanks for the helpful feedback.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

muziksculp said:


> So, you are importing song data from your Studio One Master template, which is linked to the VE-Pro instances, into a new blank song, (Correct) ? Just want to know if I understand how you have it setup.
> 
> Thanks for the helpful feedback.


that is correct.

i'll post some images.

the really trick part is being able to swap out the libraries - it will be easier to explain with images.


----------



## muziksculp

Zoot_Rollo said:


> that is correct.
> 
> i'll post some images.


Thanks. That's a very smart, and nice workflow system.  

I never thought about using Import Song data form a VE-Pro connected song.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Showing STRINGS as an example.

I have them split by LONGS and SHORTS - personal pref.

Keeping the structure the same between VEP7 and S15, I can quickly and easily swap library instances - great for auditioning sounds, for example.

I do all my processing in Studio One - positioning, reverb, etc.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

Creating a new song using Import Song Data is a breeze!


----------



## cqd

Being able to switch between libraries like that is kind of ingenious..


----------



## antsteep

3DC said:


> I am using Cubase and while at first it was a pain to understand I now like it more and more. In fact more then FL Studio and Ableton Live. Once you go past few tutorials its actually very beginner friendly with Chords Pads, Scale Assistant, Chord Editing and other tools.
> 
> So my question is how is S1 friendly towards beginners? Can you guys recommend any YT video?


S1 has a great youtube channel. If you do the subscription model and get access to Sphere you get a lot more tutorials with more detail than on the youtube channel.. Sphere is great because it allows you to share macros between users. The S1 experts are always sharing cools tips, macros and custom tool bars via Sphere


----------



## muziksculp

antsteep said:


> S1 has a great youtube channel. If you do the subscription model and get access to Sphere you get a lot more tutorials with more detail than on the youtube channel.. Sphere is great because it allows you to share macros between users. The S1 experts are always sharing cools tips, macros and custom tool bars via Sphere


I decide to join the Presonus Sphere a couple days ago, it offer many benefits, addons, tutorials, sharing, ..etc. I'm really happy I joined. Although I own S1Pro 5, but there is so much more that the Sphere offers. I also get Notion 6, and all updates when they are released. I'm glad I joined.


----------



## antsteep

Same with me. I already had a full version of S1 pro and still did Sphere.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Pier said:


> Did you know that Bitwig can run plugins in a sandbox mode so it the plugin misbehaves it doesn't bring the whole DAW down?
> 
> Just sayin...


Even Tracktion Waveform has been doing that for years. But not S1! Same with drag and drop LFOs. Or multiple input devices on a single track. And some other features. Sure, S1 has tons of features Waveform does not, but I paid $200 or whatnot for S1 and $50 at the time for Waveform.

Edit: also missing = bi-directional MIDI support. I can’t use the vst editor for one of my hardware synths (they list support for Cubase, Ableton, Reaper, and Digital Performer and the developer told me that it’s just not possible to make work in Studio One because of the missing MIDI functionality).


----------



## Akarin

I have a question for all of you S1 users. How easy is it to write macros in S1 compared to Cubase? Stuff like "copy CC1 to CC11, and add 10 for values below 20."


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Akarin said:


> I have a question for all of you S1 users. How easy is it to write macros in S1 compared to Cubase? Stuff like "copy CC1 to CC11, and add 10 for values below 20."


Very simply - S1 can’t do as much. Cubase’s logical editor is way more powerful compared to what S1 has (right now at least).


----------



## StillLife

antsteep said:


> Same with me. I already had a full version of S1 pro and still did Sphere.


I was new to S1 so Sphere was the best way to try it out. Now I’m hooked.


----------



## StillLife

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Very simply - S1 can’t do as much. Cubase’s logical editor is way more powerful compared to what S1 has (right now at least).


That might be, but the S1 macro system is still very powerful and much more easy to work with, in my opinion. When I was with Cubase I almost never used macro’s, now I am using them all the time. For instance, in S1 you can make a macro that opens a particular virtual instrument, including insert effects and bus routing.


----------



## Lukas

Akarin said:


> I have a question for all of you S1 users. How easy is it to write macros in S1 compared to Cubase? Stuff like "copy CC1 to CC11, and add 10 for values below 20."


Creating macros is very easy. But it depends on the available commands. If there's a command for what you need - great. In your case, you can do pretty much everything with notes (Select all notes with velocity >= 50 and set them do note length 16th or assign Sound Variation "Legato") but not with part automation (MIDI CCs) yet.


----------



## Crossroads

Studio One's macros are way easier than Cubase's to setup. Again one of the ways where Studio One reinvents something that has been done before, but in a 21st century way.

However, as with many things, Cubase's clunkiness is offset with incredible depth that Studio One does not yet offer. The logical editor is potentially much more powerful, but much less user friendly.

For me, Studio One does everything they do right. Those performance fixes with high track counts and the video track cannot come soon enough. I can finally and definitely jump ship then.


----------



## muziksculp

Looking forward to Studio One Pro 5.5 , maybe during Q1-2022 ? 

I'm also wondering when Notion 7 will be released ?


----------



## stigc56

I really like S1 for the snappiness of the interface - I come from Cubase. But I kind of miss where to ask questions! The forum at Presonus.com has a lot of unanswered questions and seems not to be function so good?
I have a Q here: In the MIDI editor, how can I select all midi events AFTER the cursor - or "to the right" of the cursor?


----------



## jbuhler

stigc56 said:


> I really like S1 for the snappiness of the interface - I come from Cubase. But I kind of miss where to ask questions! The forum at Presonus.com has a lot of unanswered questions and seems not to be function so good?
> I have a Q here: In the MIDI editor, how can I select all midi events AFTER the cursor - or "to the right" of the cursor?


I used S1 quite a lot for a long time. Several things pushed me away.

1. Logic got articulation sets. I know S1 now has a decent method of handling articulations, but that came after I left. 

2. S1 had problems as the size of my projects grew. Once I got over 100 tracks S1 was no longer so peppy, and I found S1’s system for editing midi became cumbersome as the track count grew. But S1 also had issues with the lengths of my projects, which often grew to more than 20 minutes. This was especially true when I used the scratchpad, which I did extensively. 

3. man, did S1 take a long time to save projects, and if you had auto save on and it kicked in, it was like forever until you could do anything again. I reduced the frequency of saves, but of course then if S1 crashes you lose stuff. And S1 crashed frequently when I used it.

4. S1 did not like Kontakt. Not to the point that it was unusable, but lots of crashes. And any project with Kontakt in it would make it impossible to quit S1. I always had to force quit. This went on for years and many attempts to get Presonus to address it. I wonder if it’s fixed now...

5. Setting up midi controllers is not straightforward due to S1’s system. If your controller has a preset or it works on initial pairing, you’re golden, but if something goes awry god help you. And Presonus support is little help. I remember mapping CCs to Kontakt instruments so they were properly assigned when changing instruments was always a bit of a challenge. 

6. Too much functionality of S1 is undocumented or hard to locate in the manual. And the manual is not very good. Support is uneven, especially after they switched to the forum and you could no longer be guaranteed to get a support person to answer your question. Hopefully this is better these days.

7. The community of S1 users is relatively small. It seems bigger now and like it might have a critical mass, but when I was using it was hard to find help.

I’m still on version 4, but plan to upgrade soon and try it out again.


----------



## ennbr

I really wish Presonus would release and document the Scripting API I've only see fragments reverse engineered by the user community


----------



## Soundbed

I just realized I can drag an effect onto the meter and it will be applied to the master outs. Brilliant!

Drag an insert plugin over the part outlined in green:


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

> 4. S1 did not like Kontakt. Not to the point that it was unusable, but lots of crashes. And any project with Kontakt in it would make it impossible to quit S1. I always had to force quit. This went on for years and many attempts to get Presonus to address it. I wonder if it’s fixed now...


I'd love to have people's opinion on that.


----------



## ennbr

I have dozens of Kontakt instances running in a typical project and don't see crashes or instability with Studio One v5 on a Mac


----------



## Lukas

I had crashes with all kinds of different plug-ins in the past but I can't remember KONTAKT ever being a problem.


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

jbuhler said:


> 4. S1 did not like Kontakt. Not to the point that it was unusable, but lots of crashes. And any project with Kontakt in it would make it impossible to quit S1. I always had to force quit. This went on for years and many attempts to get Presonus to address it. I wonder if it’s fixed now...


Are you on Pc or Mac?


----------



## jbuhler

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Are you on Pc or Mac?


Mac.


----------



## ka00

jbuhler said:


> 1. Logic got articulation sets. I know S1 now has a decent method of handling articulations, but that came after I left.


If you like Logic’s articulation sets, you will be blown away with Studio One’s implementation of articulation management. Such a pleasure to use. Going back briefly to the articulation set editor in Logic was a very painful experience for me. Check out some videos on Sound Variations as S1 calls them.


----------



## jbuhler

ennbr said:


> I have dozens of Kontakt instances running in a typical project and don't see crashes or instability with Studio One v5 on a Mac


This was back with versions 2, 3 and 4. It persisted across all of them. Aside from the not quitting properly, the crashes were intermittent and usually occurred during autosave.


----------



## Lannister

ennbr said:


> I really wish Presonus would release and document the Scripting API I've only see fragments reverse engineered by the user community


I asked about this in another thread the other day about custom scripting *here* and didn't get a answer, so watching this thread.


----------



## soundmind

stigc56 said:


> I have a Q here: In the MIDI editor, how can I select all midi events AFTER the cursor - or "to the right" of the cursor?


Select the first midi note (event) after the cursor (playhead), then press shift and end. All of the midi notes will be selected (highlighted) to the right of the cursor. Mac user, not sure if it is different on PC. Hope this helps.


----------



## antsteep

Lannister said:


> I asked about this in another thread the other day about custom scripting *here* and didn't get a answer, so watching this thread.


There were enough clues in that thread to imply it was. If you follow the author you will see they have a working relationship with Presonus.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I'm trying out a modular template approach now with track presets and it is pretty nice, though I wish there was:

- A way to preserve routing / sends - I know easier said than done, but maybe just based on track name?

- A way to preserve the track color I have set when I saved the preset (though the Toolbar extension with the Conform function is very handy)

- A better view in the Browser to simplify the tree structure - I think the best bet is saving a Root level filter on the Files tab? Can we put preset folders within other folders (ex. AudioBro -> Modern Scoring Strings)?


----------



## stigc56

soundmind said:


> Select the first midi note (event) after the cursor (playhead), then press shift and end. All of the midi notes will be selected (highlighted) to the right of the cursor. Mac user, not sure if it is different on PC. Hope this helps


Thanks


----------



## jonathanwright

jbuhler said:


> I used S1 quite a lot for a long time. Several things pushed me away.
> 
> 1. Logic got articulation sets. I know S1 now has a decent method of handling articulations, but that came after I left.
> 
> 2. S1 had problems as the size of my projects grew. Once I got over 100 tracks S1 was no longer so peppy, and I found S1’s system for editing midi became cumbersome as the track count grew. But S1 also had issues with the lengths of my projects, which often grew to more than 20 minutes. This was especially true when I used the scratchpad, which I did extensively.
> 
> 3. man, did S1 take a long time to save projects, and if you had auto save on and it kicked in, it was like forever until you could do anything again. I reduced the frequency of saves, but of course then if S1 crashes you lose stuff. And S1 crashed frequently when I used it.
> 
> 4. S1 did not like Kontakt. Not to the point that it was unusable, but lots of crashes. And any project with Kontakt in it would make it impossible to quit S1. I always had to force quit. This went on for years and many attempts to get Presonus to address it. I wonder if it’s fixed now...
> 
> 5. Setting up midi controllers is not straightforward due to S1’s system. If your controller has a preset or it works on initial pairing, you’re golden, but if something goes awry god help you. And Presonus support is little help. I remember mapping CCs to Kontakt instruments so they were properly assigned when changing instruments was always a bit of a challenge.
> 
> 6. Too much functionality of S1 is undocumented or hard to locate in the manual. And the manual is not very good. Support is uneven, especially after they switched to the forum and you could no longer be guaranteed to get a support person to answer your question. Hopefully this is better these days.
> 
> 7. The community of S1 users is relatively small. It seems bigger now and like it might have a critical mass, but when I was using it was hard to find help.
> 
> I’m still on version 4, but plan to upgrade soon and try it out again.


I had horrendous problems with S1 crashing all the time until I disabled AU plugins and used VST only. It was smooth sailing after that.


----------



## jonathanwright

Akarin said:


> I have a question for all of you S1 users. How easy is it to write macros in S1 compared to Cubase? Stuff like "copy CC1 to CC11, and add 10 for values below 20."


One great feature with S1 macros is the ability to create your own buttons and dropdown in the toolbar. It's really handy for those times you need a rarely used macro and can't remember the key command.


----------



## Zoot_Rollo

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I'm trying out a modular template approach now with track presets and it is pretty nice, though I wish there was:
> 
> - A way to preserve routing / sends - I know easier said than done, but maybe just based on track name?
> 
> - A way to preserve the track color I have set when I saved the preset (though the Toolbar extension with the Conform function is very handy)
> 
> - A better view in the Browser to simplify the tree structure - I think the best bet is saving a Root level filter on the Files tab? Can we put preset folders within other folders (ex. AudioBro -> Modern Scoring Strings)?


dragging from Template files and Music Loops is pretty nice.

ultimately, I went with Import Song Data for the exact reasons you mentioned.

see my previous posts.


----------



## ennbr

ALittleNightMusic said:


> - A way to preserve routing / sends - I know easier said than done, but maybe just based on track name?
> 
> - A way to preserve the track color I have set when I saved the preset (though the Toolbar extension with the Conform function is very handy)


I use a default project with my basic routing, color coding, and few empty tracks. I'll include a pic of my screen normally I keep the mix section closed there for reference. 
My workflow is to open the Default project do as Save As in another folder and name and start working.


----------



## jbuhler

jonathanwright said:


> I had horrendous problems with S1 crashing all the time until I disabled AU plugins and used VST only. It was smooth sailing after that.


This might have been the culprit. I did use AUs a lot.


----------



## Lukas

jbuhler said:


> This might have been the culprit. I did use AUs a lot.


Yes. Don't use AUs in Studio One if there's a VST version of the same plug-in. AU is the Logic format... many plug-in manufacturers only test their AU versions in Logic.



jbuhler said:


> And any project with Kontakt in it would make it impossible to quit S1. I always had to force quit. This went on for years and many attempts to get Presonus to address it.


Obviously... when KONTAKT crashes, it's up to the plug-in developer (NI) to fix this.


----------



## jbuhler

Lukas said:


> Obviously... when KONTAKT crashes, it's up to NI to fix this.


Obviously, maybe; but if Presonus doesn't address it, no other DAW suffers these issues, and NI is mostly inaccessible to users, what are you going to do? Slam my head against NI's lack of user support or go to a DAW where the plug-in reliably works?

In all my dealings with Presonus over the issues, no one ever recommended I should try VSTs rather than AUs. Again this was several years ago, so what is common knowledge now wasn't necessarily then.


----------



## Lukas

jbuhler said:


> Obviously, maybe; but if Presonus doesn't address it, no other DAW suffers these issues, and NI is mostly inaccessible to users, what are you going to do? Slam my head against NI's lack of user support or go to a DAW where the plug-in reliably works?


Yes, quite true. However, that was a few years ago. I would just assume that the problems have been resolved, either there were fixes from NI or from PreSonus. Or it really was an AU issue.



jbuhler said:


> In all my dealings with Presonus over the issues, no one ever recommended I should try VSTs rather than AUs. Again this was several years ago, so what is common knowledge now wasn't necessarily then.


Hm okay, I've been recommending avoiding AUs for years. But maybe not for so many years - I don't know  Many AUs run just fine in Studio One. But if they are not tested, you can't guarantee it.


----------



## jbuhler

Lukas said:


> Yes, quite true. However, that was a few years ago. I would just assume that the problems have been resolved, either there were fixes from NI or from PreSonus. Or it really was an AU issue.
> 
> 
> Hm okay, I've been recommending avoiding AUs for years. But maybe not for so many years - I don't know  Many AUs run just fine in Studio One. But if they are not tested, you can't guarantee it.


I do plan to upgrade my S1 to be current again soon. I have to update my system and when that happens I won’t be able to access my old projects in S1 without updating. I’m expecting to try out the new functionality of S1 then. I’ve been very impressed by what I’ve read about version 5, and I miss the scratchpad and arranger functionality for moving sections around. I just haven’t had the time since it was released to put in the time. 

The user base for S1 also seems to have grown quite a lot the past few years and I imagine it is getting increasingly hard for companies like NI to ignore issues of their plugins with S1. That’s for the good.


----------



## vitocorleone123

OK, two praise items for S1:

1) Splitter - amazing little tool. I just remembered it  I added it as a frequency splitter and stuck Pipeline on the higher frequencies of a drum loop from my Digitone that has distortion hardware on it and left < 180 pure so the beat came through without the distortion. Beautiful results!!

2) Pipeline - the Auto feature is such a life-saver. I use it all the time.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

For those using instrument + FX presets, can you re-order the folder structure on the hard drive without breaking Studio One's browser? For example, right now, they are organized like:

<Sample Player --> <Optional Folder> --> Preset

But wondering, if I could change the structure on my hard drive to:

<Instrument Category ex. Strings> --> Presets from multiple different sample players

I'd use the Files browser to drag-n-drop presets in over the Instruments tab, but wondering if this would break that tab or any other functionality in S1? Otherwise, I could just copy the preset files into a different location on my HD and organize them how I want.


----------



## Lukas

Yes you can create sub folders, move and rename the files how you want. The reference to the instrument is included in the preset file so it should still be shown in the correct instrument folder in the Instruments tab even if the file isn't located in the original folder (for example Native Instruments/Kontakt 5). Right-click and do "Refresh" to re-scan all the presets. Make a backup before and try it out to be sure - but I've tested this here and it worked fine.

Not sure, however, what happens if you re-save one of these presets. It's possible that Studio One saves the file back to the /Instrument/.../ folder, but I haven't tried it.


----------



## Rudianos

Im trying Presonus Studio One for 30 days. Coming from Cakewalk. I am basically considering the change because I like the idea of music notation in addition. Cakewalk is rough there. But sure gets the job done in other respects. 

So far PreSonus Studio One looks beautiful, modern, and loads smoothly. I did figure out that I have to put my VST3 is the normal folder, which annoys me. Oh well not a deal breaker. It seems so quick - and so many tools right there where you need them without digging.

Help me fix these deal breakers I am sure answers are around but Ill ask here point blank...

Why is Kontakt UI so small in PreSonus on a 4K monitor. It's fine on my old monitor. What can I do?


----------



## Lukas

Rudianos said:


> Why is Kontakt UI so small in PreSonus on a 4K monitor. It's fine on my old monitor. What can I do?


Because Kontakt still doesn't support Hi-DPI. You can try to use System DPI Scaling but I remember that Kontakt used to have massive problems with system scaling being active. Not sure if this has been improved yet.


----------



## Rudianos

Lukas said:


> Because Kontakt still doesn't support Hi-DPI. You can try to use System DPI Scaling but I remember that Kontakt used to have massive problems with system scaling being active. Not sure if this has been improved yet.


Interesting I will try that. I wonder why it shows up large in Cakewalk?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lukas said:


> Yes you can create sub folders, move and rename the files how you want. The reference to the instrument is included in the preset file so it should still be shown in the correct instrument folder in the Instruments tab even if the file isn't located in the original folder (for example Native Instruments/Kontakt 5). Right-click and do "Refresh" to re-scan all the presets. Make a backup before and try it out to be sure - but I've tested this here and it worked fine.
> 
> Not sure, however, what happens if you re-save one of these presets. It's possible that Studio One saves the file back to the /Instrument/.../ folder, but I haven't tried it.


That works great - thank you!

I've never run a modular template before, but I think the handiness of S1's browser and quick search functionality will likely make this pretty fast. It's a bit slower than the all in one template of disabled tracks, but the benefit is a more efficient project window then.


----------



## Lukas

Rudianos said:


> I wonder why it shows up large in Cakewalk?


I can't tell you. Does Cakewalk support Hi-DPI at all? If not, the whole program including all plug-ins is probably just being stretched... but looks blurry because it's not Hi-DPI. But I don't want to speculate about software which I don't even know.



ALittleNightMusic said:


> I've never run a modular template before, but I think the handiness of S1's browser and quick search functionality will likely make this pretty fast. It's a bit slower than the all in one template of disabled tracks, but the benefit is a more efficient project window then.


Agreed. I still miss some convenience features in the browser (for example tagging presets or including folders in the search) but it's still pretty handy.

Why did you start making a modular template? Because of the lag when showing/hiding tracks in a larger templates?


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Lukas said:


> Why did you start making a modular template? Because of the lag when showing/hiding tracks in a larger templates?


Honestly, I have not experienced the lag with a ~400 track template - but I know other's have. My Cubase template is approaching 750 tracks and it works great, but one thing I've noticed is it can also be somewhat of a pain to manage while writing because there's just a lot of extraneous tracks. With a modular approach, I'm starting with a Synchron template and then adding other tracks to it as needed - and it allows me to avoid including things like synths or hybrid percussion or whatever if I never am going to use it. There's a bit of a loss of serendipity with this approach ("oh I should use a cimbalom") but that's where I think the browser can be a nice replacement - without overloading the project file.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I'll say the one drawback I can already think of with a modular template is all the track scenes / mixer scenes you set up are not as helpful - you can have one for stems and FX channels, but if you want one just for Strings, I think you have to keep updating the scene whenever you add another string instrument. If scenes could be constructed based on Folders, that would be nice - or perhaps this is where Macros are better.


----------



## Lukas

ALittleNightMusic said:


> If scenes could be constructed based on Folders, that would be nice - or perhaps this is where Macros are better.


If it's just for track visibility, using macros works probably better because "strings" will show everything in the STRINGS folder. But really depends on the use I guess...


----------



## samphony

ka00 said:


> If you like Logic’s articulation sets, you will be blown away with Studio One’s implementation of articulation management. Such a pleasure to use. Going back briefly to the articulation set editor in Logic was a very painful experience for me. Check out some videos on Sound Variations as S1 calls them.


Not so much if you prefer note bound articulation editing (attribute style editing) over direction based editing. I hope Studio One gets updated in that regard.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Anybody on a Mac with a Magic Mouse? If I'm in the piano editor and I hold down CMD to switch to the pencil tool temporarily when editing CC automation for example, I often change the zoom amount of the piano roll (even though my mouse is in the CC lane area). Is there a way to either 1) disable CMD + mouse scroll from changing zoom or 2) change the keyboard shortcut to temporarily switch tools or 3) stop this from happening if the mouse cursor is not hovering on the piano roll area itself?


----------



## jbuhler

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Anybody on a Mac with a Magic Mouse? If I'm in the piano editor and I hold down CMD to switch to the pencil tool temporarily when editing CC automation for example, I often change the zoom amount of the piano roll (even though my mouse is in the CC lane area). Is there a way to either 1) disable CMD + mouse scroll from changing zoom or 2) change the keyboard shortcut to temporarily switch tools or 3) stop this from happening if the mouse cursor is not hovering on the piano roll area itself?


Oh, yes, now that you mention it I remember that one. Never did find a good solution to it.


----------



## Wedge

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I'd love to have people's opinion on that.


I haven't had any problems with Kontakt 5 or 6. But I do get lots of plugin crashes when "Latency Monitoring for Instruments" is on. Luckily, it's mostly mastering plugins like Ozone.


----------



## antic604

Lukas said:


> Did you know that sandboxing introduces massive additional latency? Sandboxing never comes without its price - many think so.


Do you have any source for that claim? 

AFAIK what sandboxing does is it uses more RAM as several instances of the same plugin (or plugin from same manufacturer) cannot share the same resources and also they cannot communicate between eachother (like. e.g. Fabfilter or iZotope stuff does) because they're separated. But it's the first time I'm hearing they have higher latency.


----------



## 48khz

Cubase, Logic, S1, now on Cubase again. (mostly).

I hate the S1 flat GUI design. Especially when you have a lot of tracks and channels you are quickly lost... colours are also very bad.

The inflexible rudimentary mixer in S1 is a joke.
take a look at the great "mixconsole" in cubase, that's the way:



the small media browser thingy in S1 is also a total failure.
Has anyone ever worked intensively with the Media Bay in cubase? much better. Same for pool.

and what about S1 onstock Content, VSTis and effects? boring.
In this areas Cubase shines again, effects are better and snappier, Synths muuuch better, C11 Content is modern and inspiring.
But in S1? no comment.

Nevertheless, I have the feeling that S1 is only copied from other daws.
where are real innovations of Presonus? 
except ARA? nothing!
the splitter was previously available as a thirdparty plugin. it is telling that most of the new features always come from Cubase e.g. so in the last S1 update. Then you can take the original Cubase again right away.
I am a bit disappointed with S1 and Presonus, I have to admit that.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi

48khz said:


> Cubase, Logic, S1, now on Cubase again. (mostly).
> 
> I hate the S1 flat GUI design. Especially when you have a lot of tracks and channels you are quickly lost... colours are also very bad.
> 
> The inflexible rudimentary mixer in S1 is a joke.
> take a look at the great "mixconsole" in cubase, that's the way:
> 
> 
> 
> the small media browser thingy in S1 is also a total failure.
> Has anyone ever worked intensively with the Media Bay in cubase? much better. Same for pool.
> 
> and what about S1 onstock Content, VSTis and effects? boring.
> In this areas Cubase shines again, effects are better and snappier, Synths muuuch better, C11 Content is modern and inspiring.
> But in S1? no comment.
> 
> Nevertheless, I have the feeling that S1 is only copied from other daws.
> where are real innovations of Presonus?
> except ARA? nothing!
> the splitter was previously available as a thirdparty plugin. it is telling that most of the new features always come from Cubase e.g. so in the last S1 update. Then you can take the original Cubase again right away.
> I am a bit disappointed with S1 and Presonus, I have to admit that.



How to tell that you haven't used S1 without telling that.


----------



## gedlig

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> How to say that you haven't used S1 without saying that.


Also the account is created today, and the two posts it made is promoting (can't think of a better term) Cubase. Not accusing of anything, but too much of a correlation.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi

gedlig said:


> Also the account is created today, and the two posts it made is promoting (can't think of a better term) Cubase. Not accusing of anything, but too much of a correlation.


The phrase "...modern and inspiring" gave him away


----------



## gedlig

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> The phrase "...modern and inspiring" gave him away


Modern and inspiring is what I feel about S1 :D And that flat, sharp cornered design is what I absolutely adore about S1 and wish would be an option in Cubase


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi

gedlig said:


> Modern and inspiring is what I feel about S1 :D And that flat, sharp cornered design is what I absolutely adore about S1 and wish would be an option in Cubase


It's just I have probably never heard anyone describing DAW or its content this way. It sounds so weird, like ads ™️


----------



## gedlig

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> It's just I have probably never heard anyone describing DAW or its content this way. It sounds so weird, like ads ™️


Now that you mention it, yeah xD Ok, I don't find S1 modern and inspiring. I just really like it


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I'm no S1 fan boy, but this seems like you're trolling.



48khz said:


> Cubase, Logic, S1, now on Cubase again. (mostly).
> 
> I hate the S1 flat GUI design. Especially when you have a lot of tracks and channels you are quickly lost... colours are also very bad.



Fair - S1 GUI has a lot of detractors and has for a long time. A lot of the top feature requests are UI-related (like more colors). The S1 Color Toolbar is a good option right now though.



> The inflexible rudimentary mixer in S1 is a joke.
> take a look at the great "mixconsole" in cubase, that's the way:




You can re-order mixer channels in S1, while you can't in Cubase. speaking of a rudimentary approach. 



> the small media browser thingy in S1 is also a total failure.
> Has anyone ever worked intensively with the Media Bay in cubase? much better. Same for pool.



S1's browser allows for some very handy functionality, like musicloop creation and replacement of samples / audio files. Additionally, song browsing and track import works really well from there. It _could_ use some improvements around the tagging system to apply to track presets though.



> and what about S1 onstock Content, VSTis and effects? boring.
> In this areas Cubase shines again, effects are better and snappier, Synths muuuch better, C11 Content is modern and inspiring.
> But in S1? no comment.



No argument there, but is that really a reason you buy a DAW? For built-in content and effects? If that was the case, nobody would use Pro Tools. Or everybody should use Logic.



> Nevertheless, I have the feeling that S1 is only copied from other daws.
> where are real innovations of Presonus?
> except ARA? nothing!



Every DAW has copied from other DAWs. S1 introduced ARA, Scratchpad, auto-articulation map creation for Synchron / OPUS, track transform (a much better version of freeze), etc.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

You know what would be amazing? If the Studio One RC iPad app could display the available Sound Variations for the currently selected track and allow you to quickly select or set them (similar to using the "Composing" page macros in the app).

Is there a way to reorder the pages in the RC app btw?


----------



## Lukas

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You know what would be amazing? If the Studio One RC iPad app could display the available Sound Variations for the currently selected track and allow you to quickly select or set them (similar to using the "Composing" page macros in the app).


Yep  Actually, that would not be amazing, but just makes sense and was my idea from the beginning, that this is exactly how it should actually work.



ALittleNightMusic said:


> Is there a way to reorder the pages in the RC app btw?


I don't think so. (Well, there is... by manipulating the XML... but that's nothing the user should need to do.) One more thing on the list, definitely.


----------



## G_Erland

Some daws you can access image files and actually change elements of the UI. Is there anything like that for S1? The slantet edges of the transport control draws my eye for some reason, and Id change the whole strip to black.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Does Studio One have any concept similar to Cubase's Workspaces or Logic's Screensets? For example, if I have a secondary monitor and I want sometimes for it to display the arrange window while my primary monitor displays the MIDI editor, but then other times I want the arrange window on my primary monitor, Workspaces / Screensets make this possible (and powered via key commands). I have a new vertical secondary monitor and this would be very handy to be able to switch what is on which monitor quickly.


----------



## antsteep

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Does Studio One have any concept similar to Cubase's Workspaces or Logic's Screensets? For example, if I have a secondary monitor and I want sometimes for it to display the arrange window while my primary monitor displays the MIDI editor, but then other times I want the arrange window on my primary monitor, Workspaces / Screensets make this possible (and powered via key commands). I have a new vertical secondary monitor and this would be very handy to be able to switch what is on which monitor quickly.


Studio One has the ability to create macros for custom views.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

antsteep said:


> Studio One has the ability to create macros for custom views.


Do you have an example of this or documentation explaining it? Couldn't find anything on it.


----------



## antsteep

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Do you have an example of this or documentation explaining it? Couldn't find anything on it.


Check out this youtubers account. This is a recent video that shows his custom toolbar with some navigation.


----------



## antsteep

antsteep said:


> Check out this youtubers account. This is a recent video that shows his custom toolbar with some navigation.



This one is a good example on how macros and custom toolbars can help manage views.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

antsteep said:


> This one is a good example on how macros and custom toolbars can help manage views.



Yeah...this is not what Screensets / Workspaces do. This is just toggling track visibility (which is great, but not what I was referring to). Screensets allow you to recall window placement configurations.


----------



## samphony

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Does Studio One have any concept similar to Cubase's Workspaces or Logic's Screensets?


Unfortunately that is something that is still missing!


----------



## samphony

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Screensets allow you to recall window placement configurations.


Not only that but also tool sets, zoom and scroll states.


----------



## antsteep

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Yeah...this is not what Screensets / Workspaces do. This is just toggling track visibility (which is great, but not what I was referring to). Screensets allow you to recall window placement configurations.


I was trying to show that the ability to configure is there rather than this being a specific example. Technically you can do basic window placements with macros. You can pin windows so they stay open and don't move to the back when you interact with other window for example. Technically you can make a macro that goes through all the steps to set a window view have it pinned and undo it again with a button push. Have to check the pinning part is something that you could macro though

Not the same as how Cubase or Logic does it, but still very flexible.

I have stopped using a dual monitors since being on Studio One as I can just toggle so easily between the views I need


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

antsteep said:


> I was trying to show that the ability to configure is there rather than this being a specific example. Technically you can do window placements with macros. You can pin windows so they stay open and don't move to the back when you interact with other window for example. Technically you can make a macro that goes through all the steps to set a window view have it pinned and undo it again with a button push.
> 
> Not the same as how Cubase or Logic does it, but still very flexible.
> 
> I have stopped using a dual monitors since being on Studio One as I can just toggle so easily between the views I need


Pretty much every DAW supports toggling views. But workspaces / screen sets are much more powerful than that. Setting a macro to turn on / off the pin is pretty limited flexibility in that it just allows you to open two editors (of different types - piano roll and score) for the same selected events - not two piano rolls with different tracks or anything like that.

Either way, the answer to my question is that Studio One does not support anything similar to screensets or workspaces at the moment. There's a number of feature requests (some from 2016) so we'll see if Presonus deems it worthy.


----------



## antsteep

I would love to see that feature.


----------



## Lukas

antsteep said:


> Technically you can do window placements with macros.


No you cannot, actually. You could if there were commands for setting window positions & sizes, but there aren't.



antsteep said:


> Technically you can make a macro that goes through all the steps to set a window view have it pinned and undo it again with a button push.


No...



ALittleNightMusic said:


> There's a number of feature requests (some from 2016) so we'll see if Presonus deems it worthy.


Just a matter of time I would say. Personally, I am eagerly awaiting a screen sets feature.


----------



## antsteep

Thanks for clearing that up Lukas


----------



## TintoL

Just found out yesterday from a ticket I made, that Studio one currently doesn't have a macro command able to create a CC automation lane in the piano editor with a custom CC. Not a big deal if using templates. But, if you want to avoid a template, that cubase ability is good.

Does anyone has a different way to not having to find a CC value from the piano roll menu each time?

Also, has anyone found that Studio one crashes from time to time when organizing/creating new button macro menus? Is this an anticipation of general crashes to come? It's rare up to know. I have been using S1 for about a month now.

Thanks in advance guys.

The one thing I like the most about S1 is that it allows my displays to turn off. Very simple no? But, Cubase activates the screen every time, rendering useless any attempt to put the display to sleep, even with using a .bat file and .exe files.

Also, in Cubase, that Ui thing with the floating menu bar. Uhhh, so bad. If you have a big monitor and want to do a split screen for multitasking with non audio related tasks, with cubase's UI, it simply doesn't work properly.


----------



## Snarf

TintoL said:


> Does anyone has a different way to not having to find a CC value from the piano roll menu each time?


Copy an empty midi region with pre-configured CCs from a 'dummy' track.

Or wiggle some faders.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

TintoL said:


> Just found out yesterday from a ticket I made, that Studio one currently doesn't have a macro command able to create a CC automation lane in the piano editor with a custom CC. Not a big deal if using templates. But, if you want to avoid a template, that cubase ability is good.
> 
> Does anyone has a different way to not having to find a CC value from the piano roll menu each time?
> 
> Also, has anyone found that Studio one crashes from time to time when organizing/creating new button macro menus? Is this an anticipation of general crashes to come? It's rare up to know. I have been using S1 for about a month now.
> 
> Thanks in advance guys.
> 
> The one thing I like the most about S1 is that it allows my displays to turn off. Very simple no? But, Cubase activates the screen every time, rendering useless any attempt to put the display to sleep, even with using a .bat file and .exe files.
> 
> Also, in Cubase, that Ui thing with the floating menu bar. Uhhh, so bad. If you have a big monitor and want to do a split screen for multitasking with non audio related tasks, with cubase's UI, it simply doesn't work properly.


The CC lane data is something I've also complained about a few times. One alternative is to move the appropriate value on your CC controller and then drag that from the top left into the piano editor lanes to add a lane.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Anybody know of a quick way to collapse the folder tree in the Browser? It always leaves the tree in the last viewed state, which means if you are traversing through some folders to find a preset, it'll leave that open. But I like starting a project with a fully collapsed folder tree - it also makes search easier, but search otherwise thinks you are in a subfolder path vs. in the parent path.


----------



## Lukas

Another workaround besides the one @Snarf mentioned: Create a new event in the new track and select it along with an event that already contains the MIDI CC automation. Then double-click both, select the new empty event and select the MIDI CC lane you want to use. Add some automation --> the MIDI CC is automatically added to the new instrument as well (as long as the instrument supports this parameter).

There's obviously room for improvement 



ALittleNightMusic said:


> Anybody know of a quick way to collapse the folder tree in the Browser?


Go to the end of the list in the browser and hold down the left arrow key.


----------



## musicmakerbird

Presonus need to figure out a lane for Studio One. Too many directions.


----------



## ka00

musicmakerbird said:


> Presonus need to figure out a lane for Studio One. Too many directions.


But what’s the likelihood they would pick the lane people here want? It could easily be focused more on people making home recordings or tools for electronic musicians.

I think expanding and refining its well-rounded, generalized feature set, without excluding certain types of musicians, would probably work out better for orchestral composers.


----------



## musicmakerbird

ka00 said:


> But what’s the likelihood they would pick the lane people here want? It could easily be focused more on people making home recordings or tools for electronic musicians.
> 
> I think expanding and refining its well-rounded, generalized feature set, without excluding certain types of musicians, would probably work out better for orchestral composers.


Home recordings, and electronic musicians is where the money is. Just ask imageline/ Ableton. The market will dictate what Presonus will add. At the end of the day it's going to be where the market is at, and what brings in revenue (especially with Fender involved). It will be interesting to see what Presonus does with the orchestral composers/film market. It's isn't that big as music production right now.


----------



## antsteep

We are in a content boom with a lot of demand for media composers.

I think a lot of DAWs will add more features for this in the future


----------



## TintoL

Snarf said:


> Or wiggle some faders.


Thanks A lot Snarf. It did work. I had some issues setting up my nakedboard slider. After moving the slider in record mode the new tab opened in the CC lane. 

I can not rename the tab, but, that's not a big deal.



Lukas said:


> Another workaround besides the one @Snarf mentioned: Create a new event in the new track and select it along with an event that already contains the MIDI CC automation. Then double-click both, select the new empty event and select the MIDI CC lane you want to use. Add some automation --> the MIDI CC is automatically added


Thanks Lukas. I haven't tried this yet. However, I think, that as long as my faders are each pointing to a specific library controller, I am fine with wiggling the fader. 

Thanks to all.


----------



## antsteep

My question is how are people using video with Studio One? Is anyone using Video Sync 5 ? (formerly Video Slave)

Anyone using Pro Tools to host video?

My flow with Logic was to sync Pro Tools to run picture but I haven't got things super tight with this and S1. Main issues is in S1 when play is stopped video shows a blank screen until I hit play again.

Video Slave sort of works but I haven't nailed down this down with timing offset properly

Edit-I will add that I use a pre roll and start action at bar 5 with a sync pop 2 seconds before.


----------



## JCarlsen

I started a trial of S1 a couple of days ago coming from FL Studio and I can honestly say that for orchestral music it's better in many ways. Sound variations, multiple CC lanes, general workflow. A very intuitive DAW that deals with all the gripes I have with FL for orchestral stuff so I'm very impressed so far. Will propably go on sphere until FL 21 and make the switch if no improvements are made in that version 🙂


----------



## BHF

JCarlsen said:


> I started a trial of S1 a couple of days ago coming from FL Studio and I can honestly say that for orchestral music it's better in many ways. Sound variations, multiple CC lanes, general workflow. A very intuitive DAW that deals with all the gripes I have with FL for orchestral stuff so I'm very impressed so far. Will propably go on sphere until FL 21 and make the switch if no improvements are made in that version 🙂


Coming from FL also, switched a few weeks ago and like you I’m amazed about the workflow, first I was afraid that the piano roll won’t be as good as FL, but when you learn the shortcuts, macros and everything the piano roll is very good. The problem with fl is the loop based workflow and I don’t think they will ever change it, you won’t have any regrets switching


----------



## muziksculp

Hi,

I joined the *Presonus Sphere *last month. Today I got an email notification that *Studio One Pro 5.5* will be released *January 11th*. (with a sneak peek video). 

Looking forward to S1Pro5.5 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


----------



## ka00

muziksculp said:


> Hi,
> 
> I joined the *Presonus Sphere *last month. Today I got an email notification that *Studio One Pro 5.5* will be released *January 11th*. (with a sneak peek video).
> 
> Looking forward to S1Pro5.5
> 
> Cheers,
> Muziksculp


----------



## stigc56

I wonder if anyone here will dare to start scoring the Score Relief 2022 competition in Studio One?
I'm very tempted, but find it hard to leave Cubendo!


----------



## Drumdude2112

Details Details lol 😆!!


----------



## muziksculp

ka00 said:


> Have you seen it yet?


They posted only one sneak peek video. You can watch it by joining the Presonus Sphere  

OK, the video showed 7 new features added to the Project Page in S1Pro 5.5

They have a lot more to show tomorrow.


----------



## ka00

muziksculp said:


> They posted only one sneak peek video. You can watch it by joining the Presonus Sphere
> 
> OK, the video showed 7 new features added to the Project Page in S1Pro 5.5
> 
> They have a lot more to show tomorrow.


That's okay. I'll find out tomorrow. You might have already said too much. Please make sure you don't tell us anything else as I don't want you getting arrested!


----------



## antsteep

stigc56 said:


> I wonder if anyone here will dare to start scoring the Score Relief 2022 competition in Studio One?
> I'm very tempted, but find it hard to leave Cubendo!


I only recently switched from Logic to S1. Now when I go back for a revision on one of my Logic projects I am always so thankful I am made the switch.

That first project is always learning curve but it forces you to find all the methods you need


----------



## stigc56

antsteep said:


> That first project is always learning curve but it forces you to find all the methods you need


But what about video in S1? Dare we hope for an update in this field with 5.5? Also Cubase 12 is in sight, with Dorico 4 to be announced the 12th! 2 days!!


----------



## muziksculp

I think Notion 6 is pretty old now, I wonder when Notion 7 will be released ?


----------



## ennbr

muziksculp said:


> I think Notion 6 is pretty old now, I wonder when Notion 7 will be released ?


Maybe I'm wrong I don't expect to see Notion 7 I think there going to continue to move Notion functionality into Studio One. Notion is so far behind the curve these days so much needs to be fixed like how they handle external virtual instruments. Plus they never did implement a full on Engrave implementation.


----------



## ennbr

stigc56 said:


> But what about video in S1?


Other than a video clip track what is missing in the Studio One video implementation Ive used it before not extensively but everything I needed was supported for my needs.


----------



## Lukas

ennbr said:


> Maybe I'm wrong I don't expect to see Notion 7 I think there going to continue to move Notion functionality into Studio One.


How is this a contradiction?


----------



## muziksculp

ennbr said:


> Maybe I'm wrong I don't expect to see Notion 7 I think there going to continue to move Notion functionality into Studio One. Notion is so far behind the curve these days so much needs to be fixed like how they handle external virtual instruments. Plus they never did implement a full on Engrave implementation.


I'm not sure if that's what they are going to do next, but wouldn't trying to cram a lot of additional notation editor functionality into S1Pro make it more clunky, and maybe less efficient, and reliable, since it's trying to do too many things ? 

Why not just improve Notion to version 7 and have a very tight integration between i.e. the S1Pro 6 and Notion 7. I would prefer that. Also there are many users who do not use Notation editors, so integrating Notion into S1Pro might also increase it's price.


----------



## ka00

Lukas said:


> How is this a contradiction?


Lukas, the things you must know...


----------



## ennbr

muziksculp said:


> ce it's trying to do too many things ?
> 
> Why not just improve Notion to version 7 and have a very tight integration between i.e. the S1Pro 6 and Notion 7. I would prefer that. Also there are many users who do not use Notation editors, so integrating Notion into S1Pro might also increase it's price.


Im not saying I would agree with putting all the Notion functionality in Studio One is a good idea. It just looks like thats the direction since version 3 of Studio One each release has had additional Scoring capabilities. 

I gave up on Notion and switched to Dorico until things get worked out in Notion.


----------



## muziksculp

ennbr said:


> Im not saying I would agree with putting all the Notion functionality in Studio One is a good idea. It just looks like thats the direction since version 3 of Studio One each release has had additional Scoring capabilities.
> 
> I gave up on Notion and switched to Dorico until things get worked out in Notion.


I see. 

By the way, Dorico 4 will be released Jan. 12th ! 

I really hope Notion 7 is not too far away from being released, with a lot of improvements, and tighter integration with S1Pro.


----------



## antsteep

stigc56 said:


> But what about video in S1? Dare we hope for an update in this field with 5.5? Also Cubase 12 is in sight, with Dorico 4 to be announced the 12th! 2 days!!


That's the big question. I have tried to ask here how others are handling video as I am curious. 

I have used a mixture of hosting the video in Pro Tools to using Video Sync 5


----------



## G_Erland

Im hoping for more colors natively (happy with color bar, but it cant color my mic output channels i think)
Can I see all my mixer tracks in the arrange window and put mics in folders? I cant figure it out, i want that.
Im hoping for an all black minimal transport bar.
Maybe Im hoping for more flexible routing. Im not sure if i want more choices, really.
A native detailed metering plug and codec checker would be very great.
An AI for DMG´s limitless, please.
Some kind of RAM miracle, yes.

I really do feel like i got most of my wishlist in the last updates - but if they tidy up the mastering bit, that would be very welcome!


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

I have witnessed more updates and improvements in S1 in 1.5 years than I did with Cubase across the better part of a decade.

Crazy (and illuminating)


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> I have witnessed more updates and improvements in S1 in 1.5 years than I did with Cubase across the better part of a decade.
> 
> Crazy


S1 had a lot more to catch up on…


----------



## G_Erland

ALittleNightMusic said:


> S1 had a lot more to catch up on…


Praise, please.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Sphere users get updates first right? How soon after that will the rest of us get 5.5?


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

ALittleNightMusic said:


> S1 had a lot more to catch up on


and I am sure they will in a very short time frame. 

the things that S1 needs to improve on compared to what cubase needs to improve on are extremely insignificant by comparison


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> and I am sure they will in a very short time frame.
> 
> the things that S1 needs to improve on compared to what cubase needs to improve on are extremely insignificant by comparison


You almost said that as if it were a fact...


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

ALittleNightMusic said:


> You almost said that as if it were a fact...


no just a decade of experience

I find it exhausting that every time I post in this place, that point always manages to be brought up. Like of course it's my opinion - I am me believe it or not.

this place aint worth hanging around


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

Usually .5 releases are pretty hefty, so hoping for some significant fixes and improvements from Presonus.

- Workspaces / Screensets
- Fixes to the numerous bugs / frustrations I've filed over the past year
- Fixed delay compensation for external instruments
- CC lane improvements - defaults, search bar, key commands
- Color scheme improvement / UI clean up
- Stability!


----------



## mixedmoods

I'm hoping for a Dolby Atmos integration like in Logic 10.7 ... fingers crossed


----------



## Mucusman

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Sphere users get updates first right? How soon after that will the rest of us get 5.5?


No. Everyone receives access to updates for Studio One at the same time. Sphere users receive access to more information about the release 24 hours before everyone else.


----------



## muziksculp

Ver. 5.5 is usually a hefty update. With many new improvements. But even 5.4 was quite a nice update. 

I also think that 5.5 is the last major update before Studio One Pro 6 shows up. 

Very Excited, and Looking forward to see what S1Pro 5.5 will offer tomorrow.


----------



## ennbr

@SimonCharlesHanna I actually agree with your previous statement and taking it further Studio One in my opinion has surpassed most other DAW's and is only missing a few minor things at this point such as surround, and video track clips for my needs. 

Anything beyond that are just minor fixes and features but all the big stuff is there and done better than the competitors.


----------



## ennbr

muziksculp said:


> I also think that 5.5 is the last major update before Studio One Pro 6 shows up.


Version 4 ended at 4.6.2 before V5 was released


----------



## muziksculp

ennbr said:


> Version 4 ended at 4.6.2 before V5 was released


I forgot about that, so ... Maybe we will have a 5.6.0 as well. But I'm more interested in what 6.0 will offer.


----------



## Wedge

stigc56 said:


> I wonder if anyone here will dare to start scoring the Score Relief 2022 competition in Studio One?
> I'm very tempted, but find it hard to leave Cubendo!


I already have.


----------



## Wedge

ennbr said:


> Maybe I'm wrong I don't expect to see Notion 7 I think there going to continue to move Notion functionality into Studio One. Notion is so far behind the curve these days so much needs to be fixed like how they handle external virtual instruments. Plus they never did implement a full on Engrave implementation.


It doesn't use VST3s either.


----------



## stigc56

Wedge said:


> I already have.


How do you sync the video to S1?


----------



## Wedge

stigc56 said:


> How do you sync the video to S1?


It does it automatically. Just check the frame rate of the original video and set that in Studio One after you import the video. It's at menu bar > song > song setup or [CTRL+.] After that I just figure out tempo, where I want changes, and heavily use markers. You have to extract the audio from the video, it's on the menu below the video, otherwise when you export you won't have the audio from the vid (I usually don't bother until right before I'm exporting). And you can set the offest from the same menu. That's really it. It's pretty straight forward, no weird tricks needed. It's just not as nice as a having a video track but it works, I just have the video really small playing in the corner to help keep track of things.


----------



## stigc56

Wedge said:


> It's pretty straight forward, no weird tricks needed. It's just not as nice as a having a video track but it works, I just have the video really small playing in the corner to help keep track of things.


Okay I will give it a try. Thanks!


----------



## Wedge

stigc56 said:


> Okay I will give it a try. Thanks!


No problem. If you don't have a shortcut set up to view the video player, I strongly suggest you make one. I have it as [CTRL+;]. Have fun!


----------



## musicmakerbird

antsteep said:


> We are in a content boom with a lot of demand for media composers.
> 
> I think a lot of DAWs will add more features for this in the future


Let's see if that get's prioritized vs podcasting/music production related stuff. Studio One is getting cluttered (been using it since it first came out). They need a direction of focus for it's audience.


----------



## musicmakerbird

muziksculp said:


> I see.
> 
> By the way, Dorico 4 will be released Jan. 12th !
> 
> I really hope Notion 7 is not too far away from being released, with a lot of improvements, and tighter integration with S1Pro.


I think Notion is going to be dropped eventually. I don't think the same team (in North Carolina) work on it anymore.


----------



## Aceituna

Hi all,
Please, I am trying to use Splitter but the plugin doesn´t appear in my Effects list.
What do I have to do.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## ennbr

Aceituna said:


> Please, I am trying to use Splitter but the plugin doesn´t appear in my Effects list.
> What do I have to do.


If your running Studio One Artist I'm not sure if the Splitter plugin is available to you

I did find an article from Craig Anderton that shows how to do something similar








Make a Splitter for Studio One Artist - PreSonus Blog


One of my favorite Studio One Professional features is the Splitter, and quite a few of my FX Chains use it. If you own Studio One Artist, which doesn’t have a Splitter, you may look longingly at these FX Chains and think “If only I could do that…” Well, you can implement most splitter functions […]



blog.presonus.com


----------



## Aceituna

Mine is Pro.
Finally I´ve been able to use it but it doesn´t appear as effect.
I run it throught its icon on channels


----------



## gedlig

Aceituna said:


> Mine is Pro.
> Finally I´ve been able to use it but it doesn´t appear as effect.
> I run it throught its icon on channels


Cause it's not an effect


----------



## Aceituna

gedlig said:


> Cause it's not an effect


Ok.
I was that watching this video.


----------



## ennbr

gedlig said:


> Cause it's not an effect


Well in version 5 of Studio One Pro it is an effect as well


----------



## gedlig

ennbr said:


> Well in version 5 of Studio One Pro it is an effect as well





Aceituna said:


> Ok.
> I was that watching this video.



Oh. Well nvm, I'm dumb then :D I only ever added splitters in the routing window by dragging it in from the top


----------



## Shimoyjk

Okay, few questions fellas!
I'm a teacher, session key player also starting to produce songs for pop/r&b singers.
I realized that I love using strings, and also I feel like it's harder in Studio one compare to logic when it comes to editing string articulations etc... also haven't done any film production yet, but want to jump in that era too.
I'm considering switching to either Cubase or ableton(+ Pro tools) since I have Softube ecosystem for mixing(Cubase and ableton, S1 are fully supported by ecosystem).

what do you guys think? should I make a change? or should I stick with Studio one?


----------



## Pier

Shimoyjk said:


> Okay, few questions fellas!
> I'm a teacher, session key player also starting to produce songs for pop/r&b singers.
> I realized that I love using strings, and also I feel like it's harder in Studio one compare to logic when it comes to editing string articulations etc... also haven't done any film production yet, but want to jump in that era too.
> I'm considering switching to either Cubase or ableton(+ Pro tools) since I have Softube ecosystem for mixing(Cubase and ableton, S1 are fully supported by ecosystem).
> 
> what do you guys think? should I make a change? or should I stick with Studio one?


Studio One does have an articulations manager:




And the integration with VSL is pretty cool:


----------



## Shimoyjk

Pier said:


> Studio One does have an articulations manager:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the integration with VSL is pretty cool:



thanks I'll take a look at it!

I'm interested in spitfire audio stuff but VSL looks good as well!


----------



## Pier

Shimoyjk said:


> thanks I'll take a look at it!
> 
> I'm interested in spitfire audio stuff but VSL looks good as well!


For Spitfire and other developers you can configure your own or maybe buy these:









Buy Studio One Sound Variations


This collection of Presonus Studio One Sound Variations supports all commercial orchestra libraries.




www.babylonwaves.com


----------



## Shimoyjk

Pier said:


> For Spitfire and other developers you can configure your own or maybe buy these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buy Studio One Sound Variations
> 
> 
> This collection of Presonus Studio One Sound Variations supports all commercial orchestra libraries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.babylonwaves.com


Super! I think i'm gonna just buy this! thanks, it will take a little time but i'm about to release a rnb song that has some strings, will report back with the result


----------



## dcoscina

Studio One is continually knocking my socks off. I’m a huge fan of the way you can combine different VIs on a single track and adjust not only volume levels but ranges as well. And it takes no time at all! The presets feature has spoiled me too. I have a shortcut key set up to save all favourite presets from each library and it’s fantastic.

I'm compiling sounds for an upcoming Roll Playing Game score and this is just brilliant to be able to assign and categorize sounds into a folder.. Maybe Logic or Cubase can do that too but Studio One is just to effortless and easy.


----------



## antsteep

Has anyone used Metagrid Pro with Studio One? I can't see that they have a basic template for S1 but I am really wanting to build a template and don't want to have to start from scratch. They have a lot of the key commands and macros in the app but it may take a while to build one myself.


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

antsteep said:


> Has anyone used Metagrid Pro with Studio One? I can't see that they have a basic template for S1 but I am really wanting to build a template and don't want to have to start from scratch. They have a lot of the key commands and macros in the app but it may take a while to build one myself.


For S1, I found the S1 Remote app quite good - and you can create custom buttons to fire macros. Of course, MG Pro has faders now, so perhaps more of a reason to use that instead.


----------



## jcrosby

antsteep said:


> Has anyone used Metagrid Pro with Studio One? I can't see that they have a basic template for S1 but I am really wanting to build a template and don't want to have to start from scratch. They have a lot of the key commands and macros in the app but it may take a while to build one myself.


I have, and am currently making my own workspace for S1. I's taken about a week and a half so far, but I'm just about done...

What you can do is add a bunch of empty grids to the existing S1 template, place the new grids as the 1st few pages, and drag the original 'sample grids' to be the last grids. You ca then scroll to the factory grids, copy buttons as needed, and post them to empty buttons in your custom grid...

Once you have everything in place you can delete the factory grids from the workspace, and voila... You have your own custom grid you built using pre-mapped buttons copied from the factory grid.

One thing to be aware of... For the moment I'm finding MG Pro won't fire macros using the S1 Actions menu (the menu that lest you browse and trigger shortcuts without having to use or assign an actual shortcut)... For the moment macros seem to need to be fired via a shortcut. Actual keyboard shortcuts work fine, just the macros seem to be misbehaving... Pretty sure they'll fix this soon enough, but you may find some buttons that use macros misbehaving, or have difficulty triggering custom ones if you don't assign it to a shortcut and have MG Pro send the actual shortcut...

Here's a comparison between the factory grid, and why taking the time to make a custom grid is well worth it... Much easier to navigate, not to mention a lot more appealing...





This is the Main grid from the Factory S1 workspace. It's not bad, but it is kind of hard to locate things when they're all smushed together:











This is one (of two) Main pages from my workspace. (Each _page_ can have two grids, so for example you could make an audio page, a MIDI page, etc, and each page can have two grids you can toggle between to access all of your commands). You can see I have audio and MIDI pages below my main page:


----------



## muziksculp

jcrosby said:


> This is the Main grid from the Factory S1 workspace.


Where do I find this factory S1 Workspace ? They don't seem to have any Studio One Workspaces in Metagrid Pro when I look for them in the 'Content Manager'. 

Thanks


----------



## jcrosby

muziksculp said:


> Where do I find this factory S1 Workspace ?
> 
> Thanks


Good question! I think it's supposed to be bundled with MG Pro but wasn't bundled by accident. I had to open MG v1 and export its S1 grid to dropbox, then import it to MG Pro. 

If you don't have MG v1 just email Przemek, imagine he'll get back to you with a link... [email protected]. If he doesn't just PM me and I can export the grid from MG v1 and send you a dropbox link.


----------



## antsteep

jcrosby said:


> Good question! I think it's supposed to be bundled with MG Pro but wasn't bundled by accident. I had to open MG v1 and export its S1 grid to dropbox, then import it to MG Pro.
> 
> If you don't have MG v1 just email Przemek, imagine he'll get back to you with a link... [email protected]. If he doesn't just PM me and I can export the grid from MG v1 and send you a dropbox link.


Thanks. I didn't see the S1 grid in my download. Good to know the process.


----------



## muziksculp

jcrosby said:


> Good question! I think it's supposed to be bundled with MG Pro but wasn't bundled by accident. I had to open MG v1 and export its S1 grid to dropbox, then import it to MG Pro.
> 
> If you don't have MG v1 just email Przemek, imagine he'll get back to you with a link... [email protected]. If he doesn't just PM me and I can export the grid from MG v1 and send you a dropbox link.


Thanks.


----------



## gedlig

Anyone possibly have some insider knowledge if multiple midi channels on a single midi track is finally getting implemented anytime soon?


----------



## antsteep

jcrosby said:


> Good question! I think it's supposed to be bundled with MG Pro but wasn't bundled by accident. I had to open MG v1 and export its S1 grid to dropbox, then import it to MG Pro.
> 
> If you don't have MG v1 just email Przemek, imagine he'll get back to you with a link... [email protected]. If he doesn't just PM me and I can export the grid from MG v1 and send you a dropbox link.


I emailed them and they said that they are releasing a Studio One Grid at the end of March


----------



## Shimoyjk

I’m having some midi issues when use external synth(with codeknob and soundtower software.)
When I arm midi, it plays fine but as soon as I disabled rec arm, it plays ahead of beat than i recorded. 
Any solution ?


----------



## Colin66

Bee_Abney said:


> I like the way it crashes when there is a problem with a plugin. It never comes as a surprise!
> 
> I'd like more modulation options over mixing parameters, but aside from massively multi-tracked orchestral stuff, I find it pretty perfect. The great user's guide and the plethora of instructional videos is a real benefit.
> 
> The included plugins are genuinely excellent. For frequency splitting, it is pretty much as good as it gets.
> 
> Modulation and frequent crashing aside, it suits my needs so well I count myself very lucky to be using it.


Have you noticed a decrease in the crashing since you wrote this comment? I'm thinking of trying S1 - I mostly do non-orchestral stuff, so not dozens of instruments - but frequent crashing would put me off!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Colin66 said:


> Have you noticed a decrease in the crashing since you wrote this comment? I'm thinking of trying S1 - I mostly do non-orchestral stuff, so not dozens of instruments - but frequent crashing would put me off!


Actually, yes, I have. There have been two updates since then, which I believe has helped a lot. There are limits to what they can do if there is a problem with a plugin - if your plugin freezes, for instance, restarting is still necessary. But even though I haven't done any serious pruning of my plugins, I find that I'm not dealing with crashes routinely any more.

If you were to have a problem with a particular plugin, it is unlikely to be a high end one. Though I do have issues with Sonnox's Oxford Envolution. But I might well cause problems in other DAWs too; or it might be an issue with my computer.

I've been very impressed with the frequent updates that sometimes add new interesting features, but always seem to be tightening up performance.


----------



## Lukas

Colin66 said:


> I'm thinking of trying S1 - I mostly do non-orchestral stuff, so not dozens of instruments - but frequent crashing would put me off!


You won't have frequent crashes or crashes at all unless you use unstable plug-ins or drivers...


----------



## muziksculp

Any guesses when S1Pro 6 will be released ?

Hoping they add Surround Mixing features in v6. I'm actually surprised Surround hasn't made it in v5.

With regards to stability, v5 is super stable on my system, haven't had a crash for months now.


----------



## Bee_Abney

muziksculp said:


> Any guesses when S1Pro 6 will be released ?
> 
> Hoping they add Surround Mixing features in v6. I'm actually surprised Surround hasn't made it in v5.
> 
> With regards to stability, v5 is super stable on my system, haven't had a crash for months now.


Surround would be great.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Lukas said:


> You won't have frequent crashes or crashes at all unless you use unstable plug-ins or drivers...


Sure, but, just like Windows or MacOS, the system (in this case DAW) needs to be robust enough to handle what happens. Otherwise it's clear the company prioritized features over stability.

S1 has been more stable as of 5.4+. It was REALLY REALLY bad for me from v5.0 to 5.3, and I almost gave up and went back to Waveform 11 (v11.5 and now 12 are at least as stable as S1 now, but v11 was not stable, either).

I'd say it's tolerable now. Still crashes pretty regularly, usually when it happens it's because I deleted more than one track with instruments and effects in one action. And deleting a track while it's playing is a definite no-no. So I'd say it usually crashes at least once on any given day I use it. Which is far better than it used to be.

So I'm sticking with S1 for now, cautiously optimistic. However, if it isn't better by v6.1, I'll probably go back to Waveform and consider S1 a failed experiment for me.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi

muziksculp said:


> Any guesses when S1Pro 6 will be released ?
> 
> Hoping they add Surround Mixing features in v6. I'm actually surprised Surround hasn't made it in v5.
> 
> With regards to stability, v5 is super stable on my system, haven't had a crash for months now.


For real. I'm a little bit of an update addict myself 🥲

If PreSonus followed their schedule(which is not official at all, it's just there's a pattern in their release history), it supposed to be realised around May 25 but as there's no teasing operations anywhere in the web, my guess is they won't follow the schedule this time😔

I hope there'll be at least 5.6 next week. Or I'll have withdrawal symptoms.


----------



## robgb

Mark Ozanich said:


> My God this is a well-designed program. Just downloaded...I can find and do everything so easily! Could be just suits my expectations. I don't know...it's a damn fine program. (I'm ex-Reaper, Logic, DP, and a dabble in Cubase).


It's a great DAW. I just wish it didn't crash all the time. That's why I moved on.


----------



## muziksculp

robgb said:


> It's a great DAW. I just wish it didn't crash all the time. That's why I moved on.


It has been Super stable, and offers super fast workflow, that's why it is my only DAW now. I love it. 

Looking forward to S1Pro 6.


----------



## robgb

muziksculp said:


> It has been Super stable, and offers super fast workflow, that's why it is my only DAW now. I love it.
> 
> Looking forward to S1Pro 6.


Glad it's finally stable. Enjoy.


----------



## muziksculp

robgb said:


> Glad it's finally stable. Enjoy.


It has always been stable for me.


----------



## Lukas

vitocorleone123 said:


> Sure, but, just like Windows or MacOS, the system (in this case DAW) needs to be robust enough to handle what happens.


No. When a plug-in crashes, the host crashes as well. Nothing you can do here to "handle what happens". When it crashes, it's too late.


----------



## robgb

muziksculp said:


> It has always been stable for me.


Congratulations.


----------



## Andy_P

I had a lot of crashes on Mac. Maybe it was the plugins but with the same setup I get barely any crashes with Cubase and almost none with Logic. Maybe Studio One is better now, have not used since V5.

Bitwig Studio has plugin sandboxing that prevents the host from crashing when a plugin crashes. Logic Pro as well since version 10.7


----------



## Colin66

muziksculp said:


> I decide to join the Presonus Sphere a couple days ago, it offer many benefits, addons, tutorials, sharing, ..etc. I'm really happy I joined. Although I own S1Pro 5, but there is so much more that the Sphere offers. I also get Notion 6, and all updates when they are released. I'm glad I joined.


That's exactly what I'm thinking of doing. Switching from Reaper to S1 as it seems to more suit the type of music I want to make and the workflow seems great.


----------



## muziksculp

Colin66 said:


> That's exactly what I'm thinking of doing. Switching from Reaper to S1 as it seems to more suit the type of music I want to make and the workflow seems great.


Go for it. S1Pro 5 is an Awesome DAW. and I'm sure it will just keep getting better.  

I'm also guessing version 6 is not too far away, so you get that with your Sphere subscriptioon, you also get Notion 6, and a lot more stuff. I haven't used Notion 6 yet, I'm also hoping to see them release Notion 7 with very tight and easy integration with S1Pro 6, and maybe a great sounding orchestral library that comes with Notion 7, or easy access to Sound-Variations of my installed orch. libraries. ...etc. ..etc. Also Surround mixing for S1Pro 6.


----------



## Bee_Abney

muziksculp said:


> Go for it. S1Pro 5 is an Awesome DAW. and I'm sure it will just keep getting better.
> 
> I'm also guessing version 6 is not too far away, so you get that with your Sphere subscriptioon, you also get Notion 6, and a lot more stuff. I haven't used Notion 6 yet, I'm also hoping to see them release Notion 7 with very tight and easy integration with S1Pro 6, and maybe a great sounding orchestral library that comes with Notion 7, or easy access to Sound-Variations of my installed orch. libraries. ...etc. ..etc. Also Surround mixing for S1Pro 6.


And a pony!


----------



## muziksculp

Bee_Abney said:


> And a pony!


That would be a nice bonus, especially given Gas prices these days.


----------



## Lukas

Andy_P said:


> I had a lot of crashes on Mac. Maybe it was the plugins but with the same setup I get barely any crashes with Cubase and almost none with Logic.


Which is a normal thing if the plug-in has been tested in Cubase and Logic, but not in Studio One.

Old plug-in versions?
Is the plug-in compatible with your Studio One version at all, according to the manufacturer?
Do you maybe use AU versions of your plug-ins instead of the VST2 / VST3 versions although many plug-in developers test their AU plug-ins only in Logic?

So many questions that would need to be addressed.

For example, I get e-mails every day from Studio One users complaining that they have crashes and other issues with Waves 10 or Waves 11 in Studio One 5. Sure, because Waves 11 does not even support Studio One. People still try. And are surprised that it does not run flawlessly.



Andy_P said:


> Maybe Studio One is better now.


The statement suggests that the host (Studio One) decides if a plug-in crashes or not. It does not.


----------



## Andy_P

Lukas said:


> Which is a normal thing if the plug-in has been tested in Cubase and Logic, but not in Studio One.
> 
> Old plug-in versions?
> Is the plug-in compatible with your Studio One version at all, according to the manufacturer?
> Do you maybe use AU versions of your plug-ins instead of the VST2 / VST3 versions although many plug-in developers test their AU plug-ins only in Logic?
> 
> So many questions that would need to be addressed.
> 
> For example, I get e-mails every day from Studio One users complaining that they have crashes and other issues with Waves 10 or Waves 11 in Studio One 5. Sure, because Waves 11 does not even support Studio One. People still try. And are surprised that it does not run flawlessly.
> 
> 
> The statement suggests that the host (Studio One) decides if a plug-in crashes or not. It does not.


 And your statement suggests that all Studio one crashes are always related to 3rd party plugins.

Of course Studio One does not decide if a plugin crashes or not. I am talking about crashes on Mac that might not be related to 3rd party plugins. That is why I said it might be better since then. I do not know which crashes I had are related to Studio One or 3rd party plugins. All I know is Studio One was the least stable on my system.

I used AU and always latest versions of plugins (Waves 13 for example), but I remember reading about that VST runs better on Mac with Studio One, but I already had a lot of sessions with AU plugins.

I do not check specifically DAW compatibility (only check OS and CPU) and surprised that a plugin not supporting a common standard DAW which has VST and AU support. Why would that be the case?

Anyway it really started to be a big annoyance to work with otherwise a great program. I used from v1 to 5. Maybe I will check again when 6 drops next year or whenever, because it really has a great workflow.


----------



## Lukas

Andy_P said:


> And your statement suggests that all Studio one crashes are always related to 3rd party plugins.


Which is why people that don't use AU plug-ins or plug-ins that are known for causing issues in certain environments usually don't have crashes in Studio One.


----------



## rickdeckard

Dear all, 

Maybe someone can help me. I contacted the support team but I still didn't hear back from them.
I have bought a new MacBook Pro 14. M1 Pro 32GB of ram and 2TB of SSD.
I use Studio One in Rosetta mode as I'm using Waves plugins and VSL Synchron Player.
Studio One is crashing as it never crashed before on my previous trashcan Mac Pro. It's so nasty that it crashes without any warning and makes the MacBook Pro shut down and restart!

Before that I also noticed spikes in cpu whilst using the Synchron Player, but I can manage that. My issue now is that I can't even finish a very small project (8 tracks of audio, two tracks of Kontakt, one track of Synchron Pianos).

Did anyone experience anything similar?

Many thanks

Best
-r


----------



## samphony

rickdeckard said:


> Dear all,
> 
> Maybe someone can help me. I contacted the support team but I still didn't hear back from them.
> I have bought a new MacBook Pro 14. M1 Pro 32GB of ram and 2TB of SSD.
> I use Studio One in Rosetta mode as I'm using Waves plugins and VSL Synchron Player.
> Studio One is crashing as it never crashed before on my previous trashcan Mac Pro. It's so nasty that it crashes without any warning and makes the MacBook Pro shut down and restart!
> 
> Before that I also noticed spikes in cpu whilst using the Synchron Player, but I can manage that. My issue now is that I can't even finish a very small project (8 tracks of audio, two tracks of Kontakt, one track of Synchron Pianos).
> 
> Did anyone experience anything similar?
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Best
> -r


Why do you use waves in rosetta mode? V13 is applesilicon native.


----------



## rickdeckard

samphony said:


> Why do you use waves in rosetta mode? V13 is applesilicon native.


Waves 12. And anyway Vienna Synchron Player and Piano are not native


----------



## Bee_Abney

rickdeckard said:


> Waves 12. And anyway Vienna Synchron Player and Piano are not native


I'm not a Mac user, but I have had experiences like that. In my case with Kontakt. It can be to do with system permissions, temporary folders, lost folders. I can't remember all the details of how I resolved it - I was going through lots of things - but with some settings changes and some careful deletions, I got it working fine again. I hope support can help you with it; and I hope that it is a readily fixable problem.

If you are able to try Studio One not in Rosetta mode, with different plugins, and you find that everything is working fine; then that could help narrow things down to Rosetta. And, if the same problems occur, then the problem could be elsewhere.

Sorry, I know that's a bit obvious and basic; but that's the sort of thing support is going to ask about.


----------



## jontom

I absolutely love S1.
The only downside is their video handling for scoring. Logic is still on a different planet with scene markers and automatic cuts detection.

I keep my fingers crossed for the upcoming version


----------



## Bee_Abney

jontom said:


> I absolutely love S1.
> The only downside is their video handling for scoring. Logic is still on a different planet with scene markers and automatic cuts detection.
> 
> I keep my fingers crossed for the upcoming version


Yes; I think it's fair enough that not every DAW is going to be geared towards scoring to picture. But would be a very useful addition for many of us who love Studio One.


----------



## tressie5

I'm curious: How hard is it for a DAW company to implement "Open plugins in a sandbox" to their product? It'd be nice to see this in Studio One or Cubase, but it'll probably require rewriting the entire program from the ground up which could take years.


----------



## rickdeckard

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm not a Mac user, but I have had experiences like that. In my case with Kontakt. It can be to do with system permissions, temporary folders, lost folders. I can't remember all the details of how I resolved it - I was going through lots of things - but with some settings changes and some careful deletions, I got it working fine again. I hope support can help you with it; and I hope that it is a readily fixable problem.
> 
> If you are able to try Studio One not in Rosetta mode, with different plugins, and you find that everything is working fine; then that could help narrow things down to Rosetta. And, if the same problems occur, then the problem could be elsewhere.
> 
> Sorry, I know that's a bit obvious and basic; but that's the sort of thing support is going to ask about.


Thanks a lot for your kind answer. I could try and do that although it would sort of defeat the point as it would mean not using Synchron Player, that I rely on quite substantially. But I could do it as an experiment to have an answer ready in case the support team asked me about it.
Thanks again!
Best
-r


----------



## Bee_Abney

tressie5 said:


> I'm curious: How hard is it for a DAW company to implement "Open plugins in a sandbox" to their product? It'd be nice to see this in Studio One or Cubase, but it'll probably require rewriting the entire program from the ground up which could take years.


That would be my guess. Another possibility is that however hard it is, they don't think it is worth it compared to other features they could be working on. Although I don't really know how to use it, Studio One now has systems in place to make it easier to identify problem plugins.


----------



## Bee_Abney

rickdeckard said:


> Thanks a lot for your kind answer. I could try and do that although it would sort of defeat the point as it would mean not using Synchron Player, that I rely on quite substantially. But I could do it as an experiment to have an answer ready in case the support team asked me about it.
> Thanks again!
> Best
> -r


Yes, there's no doubt you need to get Synchron in play again! I'm hoping that even if the problem is Rosetta, that knowing that can help lead to a solution.


----------



## GregSilver

tressie5 said:


> I'm curious: How hard is it for a DAW company to implement "Open plugins in a sandbox" to their product? It'd be nice to see this in Studio One or Cubase, but it'll probably require rewriting the entire program from the ground up which could take years.


Just read a reddit thread about this some weeks ago and a programmer explained (a loooong text - I understood probably 25%, but it was plausible) that it is technically possible but it would require to change the whole core of the software. I think Bitwig ist the only system atm sanboxing plugins.

My experience with S1 is absolutely brilliant on Mac (Big Sur, about 150 Plugins installed). No single crash since I started using it (about 3 months now).


----------



## greggybud

Bee_Abney said:


> And a pony!


This is a long shot, but are you the same person who posted a thread in the Cubase forum when Steinberg released the feature Cubase Track Icons?


----------



## Ozinga

tressie5 said:


> I'm curious: How hard is it for a DAW company to implement "Open plugins in a sandbox" to their product? It'd be nice to see this in Studio One or Cubase, but it'll probably require rewriting the entire program from the ground up which could take years.


According to the release notes, Logic added this feature on version 10.7.3. Might be easier for them because of its under the hood deep integration with Mac OS.
For Apple Silicon only though.


----------



## Bee_Abney

greggybud said:


> This is a long shot, but are you the same person who posted a thread in the Cubase forum when Steinberg released the feature Cubase Track Icons?


I think it’s unlikely as I don’t use Cubase. Unless they said something really clever, in which case it was definitely me, honest!


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Isn't video support a most? Writing for film/videos is everywhere these days. I personally don't mind but it seems they'd be cutting themselves off a big chunk of the market if they ignored this no?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Isn't video support a most? Writing for film/videos is everywhere these days. I personally don't mind but it seems they'd be cutting themselves off a big chunk of the market if they ignored this no?


I don't know. Aren't there more people making music independently of specific videos? I'd have thought so; but that's the background I come from.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> Isn't video support a most? Writing for film/videos is everywhere these days. I personally don't mind but it seems they'd be cutting themselves off a big chunk of the market if they ignored this no?


They conducted a survey via email on this exact question(if people need video related features). I wish I knew the result...


----------



## rickdeckard

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm not a Mac user, but I have had experiences like that. In my case with Kontakt. It can be to do with system permissions, temporary folders, lost folders. I can't remember all the details of how I resolved it - I was going through lots of things - but with some settings changes and some careful deletions, I got it working fine again. I hope support can help you with it; and I hope that it is a readily fixable problem.
> 
> If you are able to try Studio One not in Rosetta mode, with different plugins, and you find that everything is working fine; then that could help narrow things down to Rosetta. And, if the same problems occur, then the problem could be elsewhere.
> 
> Sorry, I know that's a bit obvious and basic; but that's the sort of thing support is going to ask about.


I have tried running S1 natively (no Rosetta) and replacing the plugins with native ones. I didn't even manage to replace all the plugins that S1 crashed again. The only difference is that it didn't make the computer restart.


----------



## Bee_Abney

rickdeckard said:


> I have tried running S1 natively (no Rosetta) and replacing the plugins with native ones. I didn't even manage to replace all the plugins that S1 crashed again. The only difference is that it didn't make the computer restart.


That's kind of a step forward. The Rosetta stuff is probably not the issue. The good thing is that this is way more likely to be fixable.


----------



## Shimoyjk

I had lots of crash because of some plugins lack of m1 native support but now it works flawless except mpc vst(which will support m1 native from july I believe).


----------



## KurtisDig

Is it worth getting the Pro version just for the Project Page feature? It is a bit annoying having to re-render a mix for every minor tweak, then opening the master project, importing it, render out the new master etc. But 100-150$ more (talking second-hand prices) just for some convenience? Are you using the Project Page and feel like you can't live without it anymore?


----------



## Craig Allen

Is anybody here experiencing the VST3 Synchron Player crashing S1 (5.5.2, Windows 10) when trying to render audio via "Transform to Audio" (whether tracks or events)? 
It's a consistent problem for me on my main machine -- only with Synchron Player.


----------



## EgM

Craig Allen said:


> Is anybody here experiencing the VST3 Synchron Player crashing S1 (5.5.2, Windows 10) when trying to render audio via "Transform to Audio" (whether tracks or events)?
> It's a consistent problem for me on my main machine -- only with Synchron Player.


It's working ok here with 5.5.2/Win10, does this happen with any instrument or a particular one?


----------



## Craig Allen

EgM said:


> It's working ok here with 5.5.2/Win10, does this happen with any instrument or a particular one?


Thanks for speaking back. Seems to be a unique problem on my system. Trying to solve it. 
Confirmed for me for Elite Strings and Strings Pro. Only in recent weeks (wasn't a problem previously). Latest versions of everything (S1, Synchron, Win 10 21H2).


----------



## dterry

Craig Allen said:


> Thanks for speaking back. Seems to be a unique problem on my system. Trying to solve it.
> Confirmed for me for Elite Strings and Strings Pro. Only in recent weeks (wasn't a problem previously). Latest versions of everything (S1, Synchron, Win 10 21H2).


No problems with Transform to Audio, and back in the latest versions of S1 and Synchron Player - Elite Strings and Synchron Strings Pro - also on Win10. Anything else unique to investigate? How many mic positions do you have enabled in Synchron (doubt that is an issue, but if you have multiple outputs into S1 for each mic, it might be).


----------



## Craig Allen

I have been in contact with Tech Support for both Presonus (who have acknowledged knowing of the problem on some systems), and Vienna -- who have a beta update for the Synchron Player. I installed the beta version they sent me and the problem is solved.


----------



## Lukas

Craig Allen said:


> I installed the beta version they sent me and the problem is solved.


Awesome!


----------



## mixedmoods

Craig Allen said:


> I installed the beta version they sent me and the problem is solved.


I hope this is soon to be released officially (and introduces native ARM support for Apple systems) 
Actually a public beta program by VSL would be really great – I would love to be part of something like this ...


----------



## Ray Sharp

I'm on macOS 12.3.1 running S1 5.5 and the negative delay on midi tracks is still broken, kind of a showstopper when working with orchestral VI's.


----------



## sundrowned

This interview with the Fender CEO isn't very encouraging. Basically wants to make simplified version of S1. Nothing in principle wrong with making a simple version, but if it takes focus away from the 'pro' version that doesn't sound great.



> "The simplest version of Studio right now has a 150-page owner's manual, which I have said to the team is 149 pages too many. Because you should be able to get out of the box, press one button and you're off to the races. So that's again, a very easy brief but very difficult to execute. But there has been a gravitational pull by aficionados to just keep jamming more and more features into DAWS, when in fact, I think you need to take away more features, make it simpler and more intuitive and less expensive."











Interview: Fender CEO Andy Mooney on the company's big plans to shake up home recording, huge challenges and why it's been successful reaching a new generation of guitar players


"My belief was that we can take the talent and the brand equity of PreSonus and create the equivalent of Fender Play for recording, i.e, a product that’s globally accessible and very intuitive to use"




www.musicradar.com


----------



## RoyBatty

sundrowned said:


> This interview with the Fender CEO isn't very encouraging. Basically wants to make simplified version of S1. Nothing in principle wrong with making a simple version, but if it takes focus away from the 'pro' version that doesn't sound great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interview: Fender CEO Andy Mooney on the company's big plans to shake up home recording, huge challenges and why it's been successful reaching a new generation of guitar players
> 
> 
> "My belief was that we can take the talent and the brand equity of PreSonus and create the equivalent of Fender Play for recording, i.e, a product that’s globally accessible and very intuitive to use"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.musicradar.com


Now I am excited about a new 2 string Stratocaster with one pickup and no volume and tone knobs! It will be so easy even I can play it … especially at the expected $79 price!


----------



## zzz00m

sundrowned said:


> This interview with the Fender CEO isn't very encouraging. Basically wants to make simplified version of S1. Nothing in principle wrong with making a simple version, but if it takes focus away from the 'pro' version that doesn't sound great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interview: Fender CEO Andy Mooney on the company's big plans to shake up home recording, huge challenges and why it's been successful reaching a new generation of guitar players
> 
> 
> "My belief was that we can take the talent and the brand equity of PreSonus and create the equivalent of Fender Play for recording, i.e, a product that’s globally accessible and very intuitive to use"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.musicradar.com


That's actually very disturbing!

_"The simplest version of Studio right now has a 150-page owner's manual, which I have said to the team is 149 pages too many. Because you should be able to get out of the box, press one button and you're off to the races."_

It almost pales in comparison to what Gibson did with Cakewalk a few years ago!


----------



## Aldunate

Bring the Tone Master algorithms to Studio One


----------



## DaddyO

VERY discouraging. Divert resources to a DAW for Dummies. Dumb-down mode is the wave of the future, I guess.

Folks we're going to give Garage Band a run for their money.

Unfortunately for this CEO, such signals about the future influence choices now. Hopefully Studio One 6 is not seriously affected. The thing is, if evidence of a shift in focus occurs, I may not be interested in Studio One 6. I shifted to SO because it was beginning to look like the wave of the future.


----------



## zzz00m

DaddyO said:


> I shifted to SO because it was beginning to look like the wave of the future.


Exactly the same here. Hope it's just Studio One Prime, or maybe Artist, that gets dumbed down. But with Pro remaining as their advanced DAW of the future!


----------



## DaddyO

Yeah, it's not so much that as it is how many resources will be diverted away from the Pro version to do it? Perhaps not much, but the CEO's statement made it sound more like company direction and mind-set. We'll see if future releases reveal this be a needless concern or not.


----------



## estolad

I think it isn't that bad, maybe just delays in development. From the same interview:

_People understand what they're getting at each level and why they're paying a step up in price. I think what we need with Studio is the same thing. Which is there's a very simple, free, freely accessible product, then levels above that until eventually you get to the pro level, that’s easier said than done.

I can say we're going to execute as quickly as humanly possible. And the German software team from PreSonus is working on it right now._


----------



## zzz00m

I'll prefer to keep my Studio One Pro v5.5 manual at 472 pages!


----------



## EgM

sundrowned said:


> This interview with the Fender CEO isn't very encouraging. Basically wants to make simplified version of S1. Nothing in principle wrong with making a simple version, but if it takes focus away from the 'pro' version that doesn't sound great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interview: Fender CEO Andy Mooney on the company's big plans to shake up home recording, huge challenges and why it's been successful reaching a new generation of guitar players
> 
> 
> "My belief was that we can take the talent and the brand equity of PreSonus and create the equivalent of Fender Play for recording, i.e, a product that’s globally accessible and very intuitive to use"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.musicradar.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The simplest version of Studio right now has a 150-page owner's manual, which I have said to the team is 149 pages too many. Because you should be able to get out of the box, press one button and you're off to the races. So that's again, a very easy brief but very difficult to execute. But there has been a gravitational pull by aficionados to just keep jamming more and more features into DAWS, when in fact, I think you need to take away more features, make it simpler and more intuitive and less expensive."
Click to expand...


This Fender dude thinks people read manuals, cute


----------



## CATDAD

EgM said:


> This Fender dude thinks people read manuals, cute


On the other hand, the kind of person that likes to read manuals would be pissed to find out it was only one page long!


----------



## easyrider

sundrowned said:


> This interview with the Fender CEO isn't very encouraging. Basically wants to make simplified version of S1. Nothing in principle wrong with making a simple version, but if it takes focus away from the 'pro' version that doesn't sound great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interview: Fender CEO Andy Mooney on the company's big plans to shake up home recording, huge challenges and why it's been successful reaching a new generation of guitar players
> 
> 
> "My belief was that we can take the talent and the brand equity of PreSonus and create the equivalent of Fender Play for recording, i.e, a product that’s globally accessible and very intuitive to use"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.musicradar.com


So all the software engineers are being used to dumb down S1?

laughable….


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

CATDAD said:


> On the other hand, the kind of person that likes to read manuals would be pissed to find out it was only one page long!


Precisly why i don't but condoms anymore. No manual no fun!


----------



## DaddyO

EgM said:


> This Fender dude thinks people read manuals, cute


Yeah, the thing about lengthy manuals is, you only read the parts that help you solve some problem. The only thing you're doing by cutting back on the manual is making problem-solving information harder to find for some, and impossible to find for others. What does he think is gonna happen when an inexperienced user runs into something they just don't know, and perhaps they don't even know what questions to ask when searching the web?

It's ironic that the people who need manuals the most are less experienced users.

Uh, there's a search function in manuals for a reason. Don't READ it, FEED off it.

estolad, thanks for pointing out more from what he said. Let's hope he doesn't divert too many resources. I hope those German software engineers are intently pecking away at the Pro version.


----------



## vitocorleone123

easyrider said:


> So all the software engineers are being used to dumb down S1?
> 
> laughable….


I’ve found over the decades of tech work at a dozen companies or more that CEOs that don’t have a good understanding of wtf they’re in charge of because they don’t have intimate knowledge of it often drive the business into the ground - or do so and then orchestrate a buyout and people get laid off while they enjoy their golden parachute

No lie. I think PreSonus could be in trouble in the coming years if things continue on this track. I’ll remain skeptical until proven wrong. I maintain my use and upgrades of another DAW.


----------



## easyrider

Anyone who wants a free Daw uses Reaper


----------



## easyrider

“My assumption is, if we get more people started on recording, based on what happened with Fender Play, they'll gravitate up to actually paying for subscription services and buy more hardware.”


🤮


----------



## sundrowned

Fwiw I don't think it's necesarilly a bad thing to make a 'garageband' S1 if it drives growth which helps sustain pro S1. As long as that 'if' happens if course. It'll be interesting to see what the next update brings and if it looks like development has been kept up.


----------



## DaddyO

vitocorleone123 said:


> I’ve found over the decades of tech work at a dozen companies or more that CEOs that don’t have a good understanding of wtf they’re in charge of because they don’t have intimate knowledge of it often drive the business into the ground - or do so and then orchestrate a buyout and people get laid off while they enjoy their golden parachute
> 
> No lie. I think PreSonus could be in trouble in the coming years if things continue on this track. I’ll remain skeptical until proven wrong. I maintain my use and upgrades of another DAW.


I have seen the same in non-tech.

In one US nationwide company I worked for, senior management confidently trumpeted a reorganization in meetings with employees in all locations. They were going to integrate separate regional IT systems. Anyone with half a brain could see the inherent problems in their plans. They got very specific feedback to that effect, but the feedback was from the lower caste, i.e., the people who had to make everything actually work on the front lines, where theoretical wasn't good enough.

Their big plan turned into a fiasco, the predicted problems did in fact wreck the implementation, and less than a year later they had to punt, costing the company vast sums of money. That cost was not for nothing (that would have been the best case scenario), it was for regression, because some aspects of the implementation could not so easily be retrieved and things were stuck in no man's land. Large-scale layoffs ensued, and the company was gobbled up by an even larger one. Perhaps that was the bigwigs' plan all along (unlikely, the company became less valuable), I don't know.

Not at all saying this applies to Presonus. Just saying that with CEO's and senior management who think they know it all but in fact are ignorant of key facts, those who do not deign to listen to the little people on matters in which it's the little ones who know the detail, the potential for serious miscalculation exists.


----------



## zzz00m

easyrider said:


> Anyone who wants a free Daw uses Reaper


"Free" should be enclosed in quotes in this context, because Reaper is legally not free. Reaper has a very permissive unlimited trial period with nag screens after 60 days. Which of course is assumed by many to mean that it's a free DAW.

Not saying that this applies to you, as I do get what you meant.

Anyway, Reaper is technically a fine DAW, but lacks a bit of the polish and features of Studio One. I bought a Reaper license to keep it around as a backup DAW. But I would seriously miss Studio One Pro if it ever goes down...


----------



## GeoMax

Remember...a CEO's #1 skill is "Blame Shifting". It has always blown my mind how these "less-than" types climb so high. What a stupid ass CEO. 

I basically stopped using Studio One and I am back to Nuendo 12. S1 cant be counted on to invest effort in mastering and just studio setup for the future. Sad, but it is what it is. I didnt renew my subscription, but I still own a regular full license for 5

S1 is probably going to dwindle into a slow death. 

Fender should just spin off S1 if they cant appreciate what they bought.


----------



## zzz00m

GeoMax said:


> Fender should just spin off S1 if they cant appreciate what they bought.


My initial reaction to Fender acquiring PreSonus was that it was likely in order to add the synergy of the PreSonus studio electronics portfolio to Fender. I couldn't imagine that a major guitar company would seriously be interested in the DAW side of a business these days. Especially for enticing beginners to buy more guitars, when there are so many free tools out there. 

Well, Gibson did buy Cakewalk, but look how that deal eventually turned out... and curiously enough, BandLab Technologies owned some guitar manufacturing, retail, and publishing companies (Harmony, Heritage, Swee Lee, Guitar and MusicTech mags, etc.) before buying up the Cakewalk software, & then giving the DAW away for free!


----------



## ALittleNightMusic

I think there's zero value for Fender in Studio One Professional, certainly not when it comes to composer features, right? Is there value in some simple recording-focused version of S1? Sure - they can bundle that with their Tonemasters, etc. In Professional that's focused on functionality professional composers need? I don't see any. In Notion? Even less so. Maybe they think they can reach the audience who cares about that via selling their interfaces and control surfaces, but seems like a tough project to fund for long.

Best hope is Fender spins off S1 after a couple of years of it being a money pit for the company. Or just move to Cubase or Logic, which have always dominated the professional space.


----------



## gedlig

I hope I won't need to drop S1 pro and go to Cubase. I like S1 more visually, the splitter in the mixer is nice, and I prefer the track lanes and mixer channels being interconnected - having a folder track also be a bus channel that can be collapsed with all the channels under it. As far as I have trialled Cubase, I don't thing that interconnection is a thing there.

Edit: you can do it in reaper, you can do it in S1, why not in the iNdUsTrY sTaNdArD?


----------



## DaddyO

To be sure, there are niggles in every DAW. Each person just has to decide on balance which DAW has the most important positives and least important negatives for them.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi

sundrowned said:


> This interview with the Fender CEO isn't very encouraging. Basically wants to make simplified version of S1. Nothing in principle wrong with making a simple version, but if it takes focus away from the 'pro' version that doesn't sound great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interview: Fender CEO Andy Mooney on the company's big plans to shake up home recording, huge challenges and why it's been successful reaching a new generation of guitar players
> 
> 
> "My belief was that we can take the talent and the brand equity of PreSonus and create the equivalent of Fender Play for recording, i.e, a product that’s globally accessible and very intuitive to use"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.musicradar.com


Damnit, another "very ambitious CEO" that lives in his little "big" illusions about "the market". We shoud abolish self-help and all this business consulting industry ASAP!

And there's an Artist version that serves this very purpose he's talking about.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi




----------



## NuNativs

The "praise" is quickly turning to disdain.


----------



## samphony

Don’t forget that the CEO has to fulfill his/her role. Yet it doesn’t mean anything. I suggest write some great music and relax. Wait and see.


----------



## zzz00m

Some Studio One classes currently on sale at Udemy:



https://www.udemy.com/course/epic-cinematic-composing-with-studio-one/



_"In this course I will show you how you can take a simple piano sketch idea of a chord progression and melody and expand it out into the orchestral instrument, plus other instruments to create your own *Unique, Hybrid, Epic Composition"*_



https://www.udemy.com/course/the-ultimate-studio-one-music-production-masterclass/



_"In this Masterclass course I go through all the functions and features that are possible with Studio One. It is a super comprehensive Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) *packed full of tools and features* to help you take your songs and productions to the next level!"_


----------



## SteveC

I understand him well. You sit drunk and alone in front of the PC in the evening and accidentally buy the wrong company. Ujam and Presonus sound very similar.


----------



## Bee_Abney

zzz00m said:


> Some Studio One classes currently on sale at Udemy:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.udemy.com/course/epic-cinematic-composing-with-studio-one/
> 
> 
> 
> _"In this course I will show you how you can take a simple piano sketch idea of a chord progression and melody and expand it out into the orchestral instrument, plus other instruments to create your own *Unique, Hybrid, Epic Composition"*_
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.udemy.com/course/the-ultimate-studio-one-music-production-masterclass/
> 
> 
> 
> _"In this Masterclass course I go through all the functions and features that are possible with Studio One. It is a super comprehensive Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) *packed full of tools and features* to help you take your songs and productions to the next level!"_


Brilliant! I'll check these out. The courses on Udemy seem to be a variable; but they post student reviews, which is helpful.


----------



## zzz00m

Bee_Abney said:


> Brilliant! I'll check these out. The courses on Udemy seem to be a variable; but they post student reviews, which is helpful.


Yes they certainly are. Some instructors are very qualified, but YMMV.

At the very least, watch the free preview lectures that are offered, so you can get a feel for the presentation, and any possible accents that are difficult for you to understand.

I already had a couple of courses from this instructor, so I was comfortable. Gary is South African, so his accent is not very distracting for me. A different flavor of English than US English perhaps, but close enough! He has a 4.5 instructor rating at Udemy and 17 courses.

From Gary Hiebner's bio:



> *Who Am I*
> 
> I'm a sound designer and music composer from South Africa, and my passions are music making, and teach others how to make music.





> *My Experience*
> 
> I've been working in new media such as music and sound for TV and online games for the last 15 years. In these years I've worked through a multitude of different audio software, and through this found a passion for teaching how to use the different type of audio software that is available on the market.


----------



## Bee_Abney

zzz00m said:


> Yes they certainly are. Some instructors are very qualified, but YMMV.
> 
> At the very least, watch the free preview lectures that are offered, so you can get a feel for the presentation, and any possible accents that are difficult for you to understand.
> 
> I already had a couple of courses from this instructor, so I was comfortable. Gary is South African, so his accent is not very distracting for me. A different flavor of English than US English perhaps, but close enough! He has a 4.5 instructor rating at Udemy and 17 courses.
> 
> From Gary Hiebner's bio:


Yes, he seems good for sure; it's good to know you didn't have any problems with him.


----------



## zzz00m

Bee_Abney said:


> Yes, he seems good for sure; it's good to know you didn't have any problems with him.


The best instructor at Udemy that I've encountered so far is Jason Allen. Also the most highly qualified. He is a Ph.D and an Ableton Certified Trainer.



> *Jason Allen* (better known as J. Anthony Allen) has worn the hats of composer, producer, songwriter, engineer, sound designer, DJ, remix artist, multi-media artist, performer, inventor, and entrepreneur. Allen is a versatile creator whose diverse project experience ranges from works written for the Minnesota Orchestra to pieces developed for film, TV, and radio. An innovator in the field of electronic performance, Allen performs on a set of “glove” controllers, which he has designed, built, and programmed by himself. When he’s not working as a solo artist, Allen is a serial collaborator. His primary collaborative vehicle is the group Ballet Mech, for which Allen is one of three producers.
> 
> J. Anthony Allen teaches at Augsburg University in Minneapolis, MN, where he runs the Music, Media, and Management program. He is also an Ableton Live Certified Trainer, co-founder, owner and CEO of Slam Academy, a multimedia educational space in downtown Minneapolis, the CTO of Ion Concert Media, and sole owner and producer of music education courses under the umbrella of Punkademic Courses. Recently, Allen founded Hackademica – an innovative net-label for new music.
> 
> J. has a PhD in music composition, 2 Master’s degrees in music composition and electronic music, and a bachelor's degree in guitar performance. Through his academic travels, Dr. Allen has received numerous awards along the way.
> 
> If you run into him on the street, he prefers to be addressed as J. (as in, Jay.)


This is just 1 of his 103 courses available at Udemy:



https://www.udemy.com/course/music-theory-complete/





> *Welcome to the COMPLETE Music Theory Guide!
> 
> This is a class designed for the average person who is ready to take music theory (or music interest) and turn it into a usable skill. Whether you are an active musician or an aspiring musician, this class is perfect for you.*
> 
> For years I've been teaching Music Theory in the college classroom. These classes I'm making for Udemy use the same syllabus I've used in my college classes for years, at a fraction of the cost. I believe anyone can learn Music Theory - and cost shouldn't be a barrier.


----------



## Bee_Abney

zzz00m said:


> The best instructor at Udemy that I've encountered so far is Jason Allen. Also the most highly qualified. He is a Ph.D and an Ableton Certified Trainer.
> 
> 
> This is just 1 of his 103 courses available at Udemy:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.udemy.com/course/music-theory-complete/


Thanks. I'll check him out too.

I've decided to buy Gary Hiebner's Ultimate Studio One course. It's new, so should be up to date on the more recent functions, and it covers some things I need help on.

Of course, there are always a lot of videos on YouTube, but when you are looking for a comprehensive guide, they can be tricky to navigate. A planned course has the structure built in; and I'm hoping it can encourage me to put in the work.


----------



## Nico5

sundrowned said:


> This interview with the Fender CEO isn't very encouraging. Basically wants to make simplified version of S1. Nothing in principle wrong with making a simple version, but if it takes focus away from the 'pro' version that doesn't sound great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interview: Fender CEO Andy Mooney on the company's big plans to shake up home recording, huge challenges and why it's been successful reaching a new generation of guitar players
> 
> 
> "My belief was that we can take the talent and the brand equity of PreSonus and create the equivalent of Fender Play for recording, i.e, a product that’s globally accessible and very intuitive to use"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.musicradar.com


I think Apple's GarageBand is the only entry level software that's been able to properly stick around for that market segment. And that may be only because it doesn't have to be self sustaining, but can be a loss leader to maintain Apple hardware sales. 

I remember Steinberg introducing something called *Sequel* quite a few years ago to serve that very entry level, easy to use DAW market and ended up abandoning it (it's now a Windows only unsupported free download).

If Steinberg (i.e. Yamaha) couldn't make it worthwhile, the question is, what Fender (Presonus) would have to do differently to make such software be worth it in the market. 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't recall Sequel being a bad effort. - I just don't know if there's a market for it other than GarageBand on Apple hardware. 

So I understand the concern of Studio One users very much. 

I'm having the funny feeling that so much competition in the DAW market is a huge stress point for every DAW maker. The market may just not be large enough to sustain them all. When more and more DAW releases make customers pay for a new version where announced features aren't even working at first release, it smells like a cash crunch in those companies. 

So I wouldn't be surprised, if we see some DAWs crumble under financial pressures. And the others continue to limp along with rather slow feature additions.


----------



## rrichard63

Nico5 said:


> I just don't know if there's a market for it other than GarageBand on Apple hardware.


I think there's a market for something like Garage Band on Windows. I'm not familiar with Sequel and can't comment on it. I have used Acoustica Mixcraft on Windows. It's good software, easier to learn than the big name DAWs, and has great documentation and support. But, although I frequently describe it as "the closest thing to Garage Band for Windows", it's really not that close.

Whether such a product should be a scaled down version of Studio One or Cubase or whatever, or developed independently from them, I don't know.


----------



## Nico5

rrichard63 said:


> I'm not familiar with Sequel and can't comment on it.


lol - and maybe that's exactly why you're more optimistic than me about that market.


----------



## Ozinga

Nico5 said:


> I think Apple's GarageBand is the only entry level software that's been able to properly stick around for that market segment. And that may be only because it doesn't have to be self sustaining, but can be a loss leader to maintain Apple hardware sales.
> 
> I remember Steinberg introducing something called *Sequel* quite a few years ago to serve that very entry level, easy to use DAW market and ended up abandoning it (it's now a Windows only unsupported free download).
> 
> If Steinberg (i.e. Yamaha) couldn't make it worthwhile, the question is, what Fender (Presonus) would have to do differently to make such software be worth it in the market.
> 
> I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't recall Sequel being a bad effort. - I just don't know if there's a market for it other than GarageBand on Apple hardware.
> 
> So I understand the concern of Studio One users very much.
> 
> I'm having the funny feeling that so much competition in the DAW market is a huge stress point for every DAW maker. The market may just not be large enough to sustain them all. When more and more DAW releases make customers pay for a new version where announced features aren't even working at first release, it smells like a cash crunch in those companies.
> 
> So I wouldn't be surprised, if we see some DAWs crumble under financial pressures. And the others continue to limp along with rather slow feature additions.


Hard to compete with GarageBand and Ableton Live Lite which is included with almost every controller.


----------



## EgM

There's no market or need for that entry level crap on Windows.

You buy an audio interface or any midi controller and entry level DAW software comes with it, end of story. Apple can make do with Garageband because they have the money to handle the losses it might cause.

If Fender thinks a free Studio One is needed, then sorry to be blunt, but they're just plain stupid.

(I know there's already a Studio One Prime, I meant *another* free version)


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

where can I send hatemail


----------



## Crossroads

Not to be dramatic, but my choice a year ago to stick with good old Cubase (at least for a couple years and see what the future of Studio One will bring) sounds like a good gamble (albeit, I will admit, a gamble) right now.

I don't know the future of Studio One. But I sure won't be betting my horses on it, at least not with this kinda news. It's such a promising piece of software. Alas, we can't choose it's leadership, unfortunately. And alas, we also can't choose what drugs they're on...


----------



## StillLife

I live in the moment. And at this moment, Studio one (pro) with Sphere membership is the best daw experience I ever had.


----------



## DaddyO

Crossroads said:


> Not to be dramatic, but my choice a year ago to stick with good old Cubase (at least for a couple years and see what the future of Studio One will bring) sounds like a good gamble (albeit, I will admit, a gamble) right now.
> 
> I don't know the future of Studio One. But I sure won't be betting my horses on it, at least not with this kinda news. It's such a promising piece of software. Alas, we can't choose it's leadership, unfortunately. And alas, we also can't choose what drugs they're on...


I am keeping a foot in both camps. The more I think about it, it's the safe thing to do. Instead of committing fully and exclusively to one DAW, I have options. I can hedge my bets and shift at any time, depending upon the state of affairs with each product.

These remarks from the SO CEO do not necessarily mean there will be a significant shift in resources away from Pro, which could yet continue down it's path towards a terrific future. But they also very well could signal such a shift. Only time and product releases will tell.

As we all know, DAW teams already have far more feature requests (and bug fixes!) than their resources can possibly address. It wouldn't take much of a shift to push needed or desired features farther down the priority list.

One of the perennial problems of DAW users is that wonderful features are implemented that still need to be fleshed out to make them mature. Often they never get fleshed out because resources have to be devoted to still more new features (in order to sell product). 

Witness Cubase' expression maps. They work, but from a user perspective creating and maintaining them could be made much easier. You can't even sort the list of maps in the map editor, for example. You can't even drag and drop them into your desired order. With the large number of expression maps needed in an orchestral template, this makes for needlessly tedious work. What's funny is, you can reorder the individual map assignments in the very same editor. Also, you can only see two-and-a-half command entries in that editor. For orchestral often three or four are needed, so you have to scroll down and the whole thing behaves funky. Still, with enough tedious effort you can make it work.

In fact, I figure "you can make it work" is the mantra of DAW work precisely because of the overall situation with regard to company resources compared to their lengthy to-do list.

I guess one can never count on any one company to be the future. It's an eggs/baskets thing.

Sorry for the Friday morning ramble.


----------



## zzz00m

EgM said:


> If Fender thinks a free Studio One is needed, then sorry to be blunt, but they're just plain stupid.


Studio One Prime has been free for years...

Unlimited audio and instrument tracks, virtual instruments, and FX channels. Limited to the bundled PreSonus plugins. No 3rd party (AU, VST2, VST3) support, upgrade to Studio One Artist for that.









Studio One 5 Prime | PreSonus Shop


Your free download of Studio One Prime begins with a 30-day free demo of Studio One Professional, no credit card required. After your demo period ends, you'll have full access to this free edition of Studio One. No additional installation necessary.



shop.presonus.com





Features available in Prime: https://www.presonus.com/products/Studio-One/features#group-Studio-One-Prime


----------



## rrichard63

rrichard63 said:


> Whether such a product should be a scaled down version of Studio One or Cubase or whatever, or developed independently from them, I don't know.


After thinking about this a little more, I think I do know. What the Fender CEO is talking about is not a Lite version of any existing DAW. As several contributors have pointed out, we already have Ableton Lite, Cubase LE, Studio One Prime, Samplitude Music Studio and some others. That's not what the Fender guy means. He's talking about something with ease of use built-in from the beginning, not something where ease of use is approximated by removing functions and features. I think that can only be accomplished by starting from scratch.

The danger that starting from scratch on such a project would hinder the further development of Studio One is very real. Fender/Presonus's resources are finite.

Another very real danger is that what he is talking about is a pipe dream. People have already tried it. There's Magix Music Maker, for example. I think it would take a major conceptual breakthrough in software and user interface design to do much better.


----------



## Pier

Who knows what will happen. My guess, the S1 dept won't be given more budget to create a new dev team for the simplified version. Most likely the dev team will need to figure out how to work on the pro and lite versions with the current resources and keep the CEO happy.

I can see why the CEO thinks like this though. I don't think the majority of S1 users are media composers. Fender is obviously deep into the guitar world (rock, blues, pop, etc) and even though Ableton Live Lite and Bitwig 8 track exist, these are not great DAWs for those type of users.


----------



## zzz00m

Pier said:


> I can see why the CEO thinks like this though. I don't think the majority of S1 users are media composers. Fender is obviously deep into the guitar world (rock, blues, pop, etc) and even though Ableton Live Lite and Bitwig 8 track exist, these are not great DAWs for those type of users.


Does anyone remember AIR Ignite? https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2013/2/3/air-ignite-review-first-impressions.html

_"I remember standing in the Hilton Hotel at NAMM 2012 when I first had the vision of Ignite shared with me. ‘Musicians are not engineers and we need to enable them to make music in a way that makes sense’ was how Ignite was pitched. It wasn’t even called Ignite then, it went through several cringe worthy iterations of a name before its final moniker, but discretion forbids me from outing them.

Of course the vision for Ignite makes sense, trying to make music with the average DAW is becoming more and more challenging, as layer upon layer of technology barriers are added with feature creep."_

TL/DR

AIR stopped developing it and it's apparently no longer supported. But it sounded like a good idea at the time. I had a play with it back in the day, and Ignite certainly had potential. But this sounds eerily like what the Fender CEO is saying now...


----------



## Pier

zzz00m said:


> Does anyone remember AIR Ignite? https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2013/2/3/air-ignite-review-first-impressions.html
> 
> _"I remember standing in the Hilton Hotel at NAMM 2012 when I first had the vision of Ignite shared with me. ‘Musicians are not engineers and we need to enable them to make music in a way that makes sense’ was how Ignite was pitched. It wasn’t even called Ignite then, it went through several cringe worthy iterations of a name before its final moniker, but discretion forbids me from outing them.
> 
> Of course the vision for Ignite makes sense, trying to make music with the average DAW is becoming more and more challenging, as layer upon layer of technology barriers are added with feature creep."_
> 
> TL/DR
> 
> AIR stopped developing it and it's apparently no longer supported. But it sounded like a good idea at the time. I had a play with it back in the day, and Ignite certainly had potential. But this sounds eerily like what the Fender CEO is saying now...


I do remember!

But I think the Fender CEO has something more like Garage Band in mind instead. Like others have mentioned, I don't think there's anything similar for Windows.

If that's the case, personally I think it's a mistake though. The kind of users that want something like Garage Band they typically want it for "free". Not really free, but bundled with some hardware like what Apple does.

Or maybe he just wants to make S1 even more intuitive and easy to use without removing features for power users?


----------



## Nico5

Pier said:


> I don't think there's anything similar for Windows.


there was - but development was abandoned after 2016, so obviously not a commercial success.

*Steinberg Sequel:*

*2007* Original release*:*





Steinberg Sequel


Steinberg have drawn on some of the technologies they pioneered in Cubase 4 to create a new entry-level sequencing package.




www.soundonsound.com





*2012* Version 3.0*:*
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/steinberg-sequel-3
*2016* final update for Version 3:








Steinberg - Creativity First


Sequel 3 Updates and Downloads




o.steinberg.net





*2021* free - but unsupported - download:









Sequel: Free Music Making Software for Windows


Sequel is an entry-level music making software for PC that has everything you need and is easy to use. Start recording now for free!




www.steinberg.net


----------



## zzz00m

rrichard63 said:


> I think it would take a major conceptual breakthrough in software and user interface design to do much better.


"Alexa, set up my standard DAW template".

"Alexa, arm track 1".

"Alexa, start recording after a 1-bar count in"....


----------



## EanS

zzz00m said:


> "Alexa, set up my standard DAW template".
> 
> "Alexa, arm track 1".
> 
> "Alexa, start recording after a 1-bar count in"....


Exactly. 

"Alexa, midi pack doesn't sound, make it sound like John Williams."

_Building "Sonata di Amore", movements 1 to 4 with tempo mapping and bus routing, would you like it to distribute it worldwide and accept a pre manufactured Emmy with your name? _

Perfection ♥️


----------



## dterry

The more things change, the more they stay the same. The race to the bottom will continue no matter how many "One-stop-shop, one-button-does-it-all, easiest ever!" programs crash and burn on the way down. The only companies that will ever cater to professionals are ones that use their professionalism to entice new users to rise to a higher level, rather than sinking their products to the lowest common denominator. 

Presonus has its amateur, bedroom musician market, and that is likely as high as it will climb until someone buys Fender for parts to make cheap $10 Walmart guitars, bundled with a "one-button" recording app for your iPhone 27 (the one that will have even more rounded corners).


----------



## Denkii

EanS said:


> Exactly.
> 
> "Alexa, midi pack doesn't sound, make it sound like John Williams."
> 
> _Building "Sonata di Amore", movements 1 to 4 with tempo mapping and bus routing, would you like it to distribute it worldwide and accept a pre manufactured Emmy with your name? _
> 
> Perfection ♥️


Meanwhile I'm over here all like "ok Google: what is good orchestration?"
:(

And on my mobile setup bigsby is spitting out atonal free time beats.

Siri said she doesn't understand music.

And Cortana...the first rule is we don't talk about Cortana. But I'm a danger seeker and will let you know: if you ask Cortana to create some music for you, she will use some choir recordings that she claims you don't have the rights for and files a law suit that gets sent to the authorities automatically when you render your piece. It is nice however that she creates a copy on your disk for your documentation. She even makes it your desktop wallpaper.


----------



## Fizzlewig

I wouldn't be too surprised that in the future some of the main Studio One developer team, leave Fender / Presonus to start over (then a few years later they release a version one product!). My gut feeling for this debacle is not hopeful, I hope that feeling is not substantiated.


----------



## Pier

Fizzlewig said:


> I wouldn't be too surprised that in the future some of the main Studio One developer team, leave Fendor / Presonus to start over (then a few years later they release a version one product!). My gut feeling for this debacle is not hopeful, I hope that feeling is not substantiated.


Pretty much what happened with Bitwig founded by Ableton employees.


----------



## Fizzlewig

Pier said:


> Pretty much what happened with Bitwig founded by Ableton employees.


Oh, really, I didn't know that!


----------



## zzz00m

Fizzlewig said:


> I wouldn't be too surprised that in the future some of the main Studio One developer team, leave Fender / Presonus to start over (then a few years later they release a version one product!). My gut feeling for this debacle is not hopeful, I hope that feeling is not substantiated.


I heard that Studio One began with some former Cubase developers. And Bitwig was started by some former Ableton developers. So who knows? We'll see eventually... change is inevitable.


----------



## José Herring

I haven't read all 21 pages but I'll give my two cents. 

Studio One is a great DAW. I use it in conjunction with Cubase because if you're a Cubase user Studio One has no learning curve. Even the default shortcuts seem to be the same. That said though.....I stopped using it as soon as I heard Fender was taking it over. If history plays out, guitar companies taking over software never goes well for us. The market now will be bedroom guitar players that want to jam on the weekends and if they ever bother to hit record on anything they certainly will not want to be dealing with feature rich software. So I hate to be a pessimist but I think studio one will head in the GarageBand direction. They will have no need to keep developing advanced production features like expression maps or per articulation sample offsets or better integrated notation. Shame because Notion seamlessly integrated into Studio One would be killer.
I say that hoping that I am totally wrong. I really do like Studio One and it kept Cubase on its toes in streamlining the Cubase work flow to what it is today with C12. The two softwares kind of aided each other. 

Best case scenario though is that Fender takes over Studio One then absolutely let's the team do their own thing with Studio One and develop something entirely new for the living room guitar jammers. I think the article in question can be interpreted that way as well.


----------



## EanS

José Herring said:


> I haven't read all 21 pages but I'll give my two cents.
> 
> If history plays out, guitar companies taking over software never goes well for us.


That's mostly exclusively about Gibson (Cakewalk is the reference). These folks have managed to gorgeously acquire and utterly destroy great brands like Trace Elliot, Steinberger (they destroyed Ned!), Kramer Guitars (Kramer is Originally EVH's guitar!!) now they're pieces of crap. Oh KRK too. And destroyed hundreds of Firebirds.

It's all the ones from Kalamazoo.

(Substitute "ones" by every insult you can remember, in all languages possible, still not enough)

Fender has contributed to Amplitube, for instance.

(Stairway to heaven solo is a Telecaster, yet people still buy Les Pauls. That and Slash has saved Gibson untill today 🤣)


----------



## José Herring

EanS said:


> That's mostly exclusively about Gibson (Cakewalk is the reference). These folks have managed to gorgeously acquire and utterly destroy great brands like Trace Elliot, Steinberger (they destroyed Ned!), Kramer Guitars (Kramer is Originally EVH's guitar!!) now they're pieces of crap. Oh KRK too. And destroyed hundreds of Firebirds.
> 
> It's all the ones from Kalamazoo.
> 
> (Substitute "ones" by every insult you can remember, in all languages possible, still not enough)
> 
> Fender has contributed to Amplitube, for instance.
> 
> (Stairway to heaven solo is a Telecaster, yet people still buy Les Pauls. That and Slash has saved Gibson untill today 🤣)


Even older than that, I'm still upset over the Opcode take over. That's how old I am


----------



## dterry

José Herring said:


> So I hate to be a pessimist but I think studio one will head in the GarageBand direction. They will have no need to keep developing advanced production features like expression maps or per articulation sample offsets or better integrated notation. Shame because Notion seamlessly integrated into Studio One would be killer.
> I say that hoping that I am totally wrong. I really do like Studio One and it kept Cubase on its toes in streamlining the Cubase work flow to what it is today with C12. The two softwares kind of aided each other.


I completely agree on all accounts. I was also hoping Studio One would at least encourage Steinberg to rethink workflow and fix half finished features. Nuendo has been my preferred DAW for years, but a continual lack of attention to detail is starting to take its toll - workflow issues removed and never restored, ASIO Guard decreasing performance, etc.

And now, Midi Remote has made remote control unusable for some of us due to serious bugs that crop up, and a bizarrely unintuitive editing and assignment system. 

I'm a former programmer and engineer, so there is very little I can't figure out technically, but I find the new system a complete mess. And unfortunately, it isn't likely to change significantly. Once Steinberg makes a design decision, they stick with it, for better or worse. 

I was hoping what seemed to be a focus on bringing efficiency and speed back into the DAW market at Presonus would continue. Maybe not. At this point I'm not convinced any DAW developer is thinking clearly anymore.


----------



## Phillip Dixon

From gear space...... 
Fender makes Custom shop guitars for Pros, Mexican Strats for Working musicians and Squier strats for beginners.

Studio One will always be our flagship application for professionals. Sure, we may utilize the technology to create new things for entry level recordists, kind of like Apple did with Garageband. But we have a lot of years invested in Studio One and we are just getting warmed up.

Studio tuned....

Rick Naqvi
VP of Sales, PreSonus


----------



## DaddyO

Thanks, Rick. For sure, the releases that follow will tell the story.


----------



## Ed Wine

José Herring said:


> I haven't read all 21 pages but I'll give my two cents.
> 
> Studio One is a great DAW. I use it in conjunction with Cubase because if you're a Cubase user Studio One has no learning curve. Even the default shortcuts seem to be the same. That said though.....I stopped using it as soon as I heard Fender was taking it over. If history plays out, guitar companies taking over software never goes well for us. The market now will be bedroom guitar players that want to jam on the weekends and if they ever bother to hit record on anything they certainly will not want to be dealing with feature rich software. So I hate to be a pessimist but I think studio one will head in the GarageBand direction. They will have no need to keep developing advanced production features like expression maps or per articulation sample offsets or better integrated notation. Shame because Notion seamlessly integrated into Studio One would be killer.
> I say that hoping that I am totally wrong. I really do like Studio One and it kept Cubase on its toes in streamlining the Cubase work flow to what it is today with C12. The two softwares kind of aided each other.
> 
> Best case scenario though is that Fender takes over Studio One then absolutely let's the team do their own thing with Studio One and develop something entirely new for the living room guitar jammers. I think the article in question can be interpreted that way as well.


Wow, such distain for people who play guitar in their bedrooms.


----------



## dcoscina

I wasn't concerned. I love Studio One. Aside from Dorico 4, it's the software I use the most for music creation on my Mac.


----------



## EanS

Phillip Dixon said:


> From gear space......
> Fender makes Custom shop guitars for Pros, Mexican Strats for Working musicians and Squier strats for beginners.
> 
> Studio One will always be our flagship application for professionals. Sure, we may utilize the technology to create new things for entry level recordists, kind of like Apple did with Garageband. But we have a lot of years invested in Studio One and we are just getting warmed up.
> 
> Studio tuned....
> 
> Rick Naqvi
> VP of Sales, PreSonus


Hmmm, that's the narrative. Those who play Strats know that 7enders are hit and miss, a Squier Classic Vibe can even beat a US one just by holding it in your hands and playing it unplugged. 

Curious thing is that several Custom Shop signature Strats like SRV, Clapton & Gilmour's are all indeed originally partcasters, so how come a _custom shop_ can excel a Strat originally assembled like an Ikea product but from different pieces of the same furniture made in series? That was Leo's dream since always. 

Oh, but the narrative... kudos Mr. Naqvi. 🙌

But as I claimed, 7ender CEO isn't speaking to me regarding a simplified version DAW and Mr. Naqvi's neither; why? You don't say "_Fender Custom Shop_" to show you have knowledge on their top tier. You say "_Fender Masterbuilt_"


----------



## José Herring

Ed Wine said:


> Wow, such distain for people who play guitar in their bedrooms.



* disdain



@Ed Wine In all seriousness though I only have disdain for guitar companies that take over DAW software only to kill it because they realize it doesn't fit into their existing target market. I'm a dabbler in the guitar arts as well and believe as far as I get is my living room.


----------



## Pier

Phillip Dixon said:


> Sure, we may utilize the technology to create new things for entry level recordists, kind of like Apple did with Garageband. But we have a lot of years invested in Studio One and we are just getting warmed up.


The main concern is the dev team will now have to develop and maintain two projects which will probably divert resources from Studio One itself.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> The main concern is the dev team will now have to develop and maintain two projects which will probably divert resources from Studio One itself.


Which is why this public statement doesn't mean much. It means something - that they haven't actively decided to shut down the ongoing development of Stutio One as it currently is - but not much. That's okay; there never was any certainty before the purchase by Fender. There is now a specific new worry, though.


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> Which is why this public statement doesn't mean much. It means something - that they haven't actively decided to shut down the ongoing development of Stutio One as it currently is - but not much. That's okay; there never was any certainty before the purchase by Fender. There is now a specific new worry, though.


Reminds me of the situation with Logic Pro before X was released.

Between Logic Pro 7 and X almost a decade passed and Logic users (me included) were not very happy with the progress. When X was released it felt pretty underwhelming much like Final Cut Pro X which was panned by editing pros back then.

I remember the prevalent conspiracy theory back then is that Apple had the Logic devs working on stuff for the iWork suite.


----------



## zzz00m

Well if you think about it, the potential market for professional DAW software is likely a rather small slice of the overall global retail software market.

These 3 successful major DAWs have industry heavyweights as parent companies. Although Fender is not quite the global conglomerate when compared with the other two:

Yamaha: Steinberg Cubase
Apple: Logic Pro
Fender: PreSonus Studio One

Avid Pro Tools and Ableton Live have successfully carved out competitive moats for their respective DAWs. They each have a niche to themselves, and IMO don't see any risk to their business models for the foreseeable future.

And there are still a few other DAWs that remain in the hands of smaller independent developers, that call their own shots, but are at the mercy of market forces. Examples here are Bitwig, FL Studio, Reaper, Reason, etc.

I think I would have preferred that PreSonus had remained independent, and in charge of their own destiny. Let's just hope that Fender is in it to win it!

And apologies if I didn't name your favorite DAW or company. This wasn't intended to be a wiki post, just a general observation...


----------



## DaddyO

A post by a VP of Sales does little to allay my concerns. His interest is overall sales. Nothing personal, and this may not be true of Rick, but my experience with sales people (having worked for years in a sales organization) is that they will say anything for public consumption that fits with their objective. Again, not saying Rick is like this, just that a statement by sales is not particularly helpful in reassuring me. As a customer, the quality of SO releases will persuade me one way or the other.

When a CEO speaks publicly, he needs to realize that his customers, uh, will actually listen and draw inferences from what he says.


----------



## Faruh Al-Baghdadi

Pier said:


> The main concern is the dev team will now have to develop and maintain two projects which will probably divert resources from Studio One itself.


Considering that now they have bigger budget, we can think that they're going to expand their dev staff. Maybe main team will produce the initial version of this "DAW for Ds" , but then they can just send it to a second team. 

Also, let's not forget that the main devs were relatively ambitious and I can't believe that they're going to waste themselves for "another GarbageBand" 🌚


----------



## jonathanwright

I guess the first real-world thing to look out for would be a change in the frequency and depth of updates - free and paid for.

If the gap between them begins to lengthen, and they contain less fixes and new features, it could be a warning sign.


----------



## Braveheart

jonathanwright said:


> I guess the first real-world thing to look out for would be a change in the frequency and depth of updates - free and paid for.
> 
> If the gap between them begins to lengthen, and they contain less fixes and new features, it could be a warning sign.


A Daw working great doesn’t necessarily need new features all the time.


----------



## DaddyO

Faruh Al-Baghdadi said:


> Considering that now they have bigger budget, we can think that they're going to expand their dev staff. Maybe main team will produce the initial version of this "DAW for Ds" , but then they can just send it to a second team.
> 
> Also, let's not forget that the main devs were relatively ambitious and I can't believe that they're going to waste themselves for "another GarbageBand" 🌚


And that's definitely a possibility. The CEO's statements don't make lesser resources for SO Pro inevitable. They just open up a can of legitimate concern. We don't know what we will get until we begin to eat what's in the can.


----------



## DaddyO

Braveheart said:


> A Daw working great doesn’t necessarily need new features all the time.


I'll settle for MIDI Controller tab user presets, even better, user controller lane sets visible at the same time adjacent to each other.

That said, I agree with you. The fleshing out and perfecting of not-yet-mature existing features is often what I wish for. Alas, DAW vendors require some sizzle every time they release a steak, else they won't attract enough new customers and upgrades to justify their development expenses.


----------



## jonathanwright

Braveheart said:


> A Daw working great doesn’t necessarily need new features all the time.


Of course not, but the S1 team have been great at frequent bug fixes and updates over the last few years. So if that were to stop, it would be noticeable.


----------



## Karmand

[SOLVED] 
What worked: I choose to Export with 'Between Loop' checked. Even though I had start and end points it will not export with that option checked.

Thanks below for giving me some ideas to keep checking, trying different things.

[The PROBLEM]

So after following this thread since Feb - when I purchased a 2626 and a Quantum - I got Studio One with that purchase. It’s the Artist version.
I’ve not tried it until this week. I’m a long time Logic user. Well I have to say from y’all it’s inspiring to get to try this Studio One and I like some of it. Many features I picked up from this thread and online video tutorials.
Good stuff.

Can ya help me with something?
I made a song in it. Went to export it. Crash. Tried again. Crash.

So why can’t I export this song:
Studio One 5.5x <— latest.
MacRack Monterey 12.4
VEP7 July 21 version
Second VEP7 - on a server machine - same version; different OS (Catalina)
MIR3D - latest version.

Tracks:
VSL Flute
VSL Clarinet Bb
VSL English Horn
CineWoods Pro Alto Flute (All Woods are in one Instance in VEP7)

VSL Strings,
VSL Strings Pro
VSL Elite Strings (all VSL is in one VEP instance0

Pianos (one instance in VEP70
VSL Free Imperial
MP2 Phillharmonik Grand
SampleTank Steinway Grand

Solo OBOE (the one recent purchase from Orchestra Tools 1/2 Price - I thought I’d try an Oboe solo piece)
The Oboe is the only one not coming from VEP7 - it’s direct Sine connection in Studio One

MIR3D - Yes, giving it a shot - Room pack is the Synchrony Stage

— NOW here’s what I did.
I exported ALL those individual Midi Tracks from Logic
Dragged them into Studio One
AND They work - just great. Playback - edit them, move em around etc…
Sounds fairly good.
MIR3D works great - had to re-insert those instruments and place them on the stage but MIR3D works great. No crash.
Editing with Synchron Player, works.
Editing Sine Player for the Oboe works.
Editing with CineSamples Kontakt works.
Everything seems to work - even plugins like MIRacle on the piano.
One things does not work: EXPORT
I choose WAVE or MP3 - both crash.

What should I do that does not take too long to troubleshoot?

I will copy the song; Delete all except Woods - give it a go. [EDIT - This Worked]
Delete all except Pianos - give it a go [EDIT - This Worked]
Delete all except Strings - give it a go [EDIT - This Worked]

But was wondering if y’all had other ideas?

Thanks - great thread because it caused me to reach beyond Logic and give this Studio One a try. Pretty cool.
K


----------



## Lukas

Sounds annoying.

One quick idea as a workaround: In the Export window, enable Real-time Export. Does this let you export without crashing? If that works, you can at least export your song...

Of course, that's not the solution. What I usually do if something crashes and I don't know where it comes from is removing all plug-ins of the same type: All VSL Synchron Players or SINE Players or everything MIR3D... and then see if the crash disappears. I would assume that if one instance of a sample player works fine during export, the other instances probably aren't the cause of the crash either. At least that's where I would start...


----------



## Bee_Abney

Looking at this version comparison chart:









Studio One | Compare Versions | PreSonus







www.presonus.com





I can see that the Artist version can't record wav files, nor export either wav or AAF.

It should be able to export mp3, though. And I think you only have midi tracks and Artist (as you know from experience) can use an unlimited number of third-party VSTs; so there should be no problem there.

So, I don't know, sorry. I've never experienced this problem; though I've also never used Artist.


----------



## Lukas

Of course, the Artist version can record and export WAV. What you probably mean is 64-bit floating-point (not available in Artist according to the comparison table).


----------



## Lukas

Karmand said:


> What worked: I choose to Export with 'Between Loop' checked. Even though I had start and end points it will not export with that option checked.


That's interesting. But glad to hear that this works for you. I almost always use "Between Loop" for export.


----------



## John Longley

This thread made me curious to check back in on the status of S1. It’s elegant compared to Cubase but the CPU handling is horrendous. Not workable at low latency for any reasonable amount of tracks. It’s really too bad as it’s got a lot to love.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

John Longley said:


> This thread made me curious to check back in on the status of S1. It’s elegant compared to Cubase but the CPU handling is horrendous. Not workable at low latency for any reasonable amount of tracks. It’s really too bad as it’s got a lot to love.


works fine for me on 100 gig (ram) track at low latency.


----------



## John Longley

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> works fine for me on 100 gig (ram) track at low latency.


Glad to hear it. I was running it on my 10900K w/64GB ram (RME). Probably performed about half as well as Cubase on testing. I’m upgrading in late fall for new gen, I’ll try again then.


----------



## SimonCharlesHanna

John Longley said:


> Glad to hear it. I was running it on my 10900K w/64GB ram (RME). Probably performed about half as well as Cubase on testing. I’m upgrading in late fall for new gen, I’ll try again then.


My cores are far inferior to that, maybe a 3rd party plugin wasn't playing nicely? 

Anyway, best of luck. Moving from Cubase to S1 was a very positive change for me.


----------



## dterry

John Longley said:


> Glad to hear it. I was running it on my 10900K w/64GB ram (RME). Probably performed about half as well as Cubase on testing. I’m upgrading in late fall for new gen, I’ll try again then.


If I may ask, what kind of project were you testing (mostly VIs, or audio with plugins, track count, etc)? Complex projects with multiple stems/busses routing, etc are certainly more taxing and can show deeper performance issues in a DAW, which may be what you've found. 

I've read other reports of poor performance in S1 with large track counts and complexity. I have my scoring template duplicated in S1, but both are built around VEPro hosting, so not much locally to really tax the system, and so I haven't run into performance issues, other than slow track height zooming, but I also haven't really tried to break it just yet. 

I'm doing some isolated comparison testing of S1 vs Nuendo, and Win10 i7 5820k vs Macbook Pro M1 (i.e. just audio, or just VIs). So far S1 on the M1 performs significantly better than S1 on the i7, but right in line with what I would expect from the newer, more efficient M1. The i7 also has a MOTU PCIe interface vs RME USB2 on the M1. Same performance for this minor test project (only 52 tracks with Presonus' plugins on each) on the M1 at 32 samples as the i7 had at 512 - some of that is RME's more efficient drivers, and some the M1.


----------



## dterry

Same test project, but adding 3 plugins from Plugin Alliance (all listed as M1 native), S1 on my 6 year old i7 pretty much doubles the performance of S1 on the M1, same buffer sizes (i.e. almost twice the number of tracks). Running under Rosetta was significantly worse. 

The previous test was only with stock Presonus plugins.

There are some gains to be had with M1s, but an older i7 PC is still a beast, at least for Studio One, fwiw.


----------



## Craig Allen

dterry said:


> Same test project, but adding 3 plugins from Plugin Alliance (all listed as M1 native), S1 on my 6 year old i7 pretty much doubles the performance of S1 on the M1, same buffer sizes (i.e. almost twice the number of tracks). Running under Rosetta was significantly worse.
> 
> The previous test was only with stock Presonus plugins.
> 
> There are some gains to be had with M1s, but an older i7 PC is still a beast, at least for Studio One, fwiw.


Maybe I'm missing something. 40 minutes prior you were saying that the Mac M1 has better performance than the Windows i7, as expected. But then you added 3 plugins and now you are getting 2x performance from the i7 compared to the M1? So, the 3 PA plugins completely broke the M1? Or what happened?


----------



## dterry

Craig Allen said:


> Maybe I'm missing something. 40 minutes prior you were saying that the Mac M1 has better performance than the Windows i7, as expected. But then you added 3 plugins and now you are getting 2x performance from the i7 compared to the M1? So, the 3 PA plugins completely broke the M1? Or what happened?


I apologize for any confusion. Not 40 minutes for the tests - the first tests were a few days ago, and after posting I decided to use a few license activations on this M1 to give me a more real-world comparison.

I probably wasn't clear - the increased performance on the M1 was running at a lower buffer with the same cpu load, but that was with Studio One's own plugins, so I came to the conclusion that the first test wasn't demonstrating anything. It just didn't tax the cpu enough to be measurable, so the only difference is interfaces, and that played out pretty much as expected - a lower buffer size for the RME vs MOTU under similar audio loads (hence the 2x). 

The second test with PA plugins would seem to point to a problem with the native M1 versions of those plugins. So for now, all I can say is, for this specific test, Studio One on PC wins. But insert other plugins (Waves, DMG, etc), or VIs, and the results could be drastically different. 

The M1 architecture is an improvement in some areas for audio, but not all. Also, some developers claim native M1 compatibility when that isn't accurate. I don't know if that is the case here or not. To be thorough, I would have to recreate this test in Nuendo on both systems as well. 

I usually don't just post a test without confirming, but my time has been very limited lately, and it was for my own curiosity rather than intended to create a scientifically accurate data point. 

Just take it with a grain of salt, like most of the M1 performance tests around at the moment (which seem to be mostly in Logic) - almost all are circumstantial and few are going to definitively isolate the M1/ARM architecture vs. Intel as I don't think the gains for us are necessarily that cut and dried.


----------



## DaddyO

What an amazing feature I did not know about, the Secondary Tool in Studio One.


----------



## outland

estolad said:


> I think it isn't that bad, maybe just delays in development. From the same interview:
> 
> _People understand what they're getting at each level and why they're paying a step up in price. I think what we need with Studio is the same thing. Which is there's a very simple, free, freely accessible product, then levels above that until eventually you get to the pro level, that’s easier said than done.
> 
> I can say we're going to execute as quickly as humanly possible. And the German software team from PreSonus is working on it right now._


Forgive me for being "late to the game," so to speak (and many thanks for filling me in on just what is happening with this issue.) I have been definitely growing in my concern since there hasn't been an update for quite a while now. I've been with Studio One since version 3 and I think this is the longest stretch between updates that I've seen.

The main problem with the above quote is that, unfortunately, this CEO is comparing guitars to a software platform when there is no real basis for the comparison. An Stratocaster is simply a Stratocaster. A professional guitar has no significant new features that positively affect productivity as opposed to a student version of an electric guitar, it simply plays better (ideally.) And, as we all know, software doesn't work that way _at all._

That said, the scariest quotes from the interview (which I have just read) were probably these:

(BOQ)

"When you translate that to PreSonus, having dabbled in recording myself, I’ve never found a DAW I didn't need an MIT degree to actually use. You shouldn't need to spend more time figuring out how to use a DAW than you do creating. So my belief was that we can take the talent and the brand equity of PreSonus and create the equivalent of Fender Play for recording, i.e, a product that’s globally accessible and very intuitive to use.

"My assumption is, if we get more people started on recording, based on what happened with Fender Play, they'll gravitate up to actually paying for subscription services and buy more hardware.

"So again, our goal is to increase the total size of the market, and our approach is to fill the world with angels. Because again, the more people get comfortable with recording, the more likely they are to stick with the instrument and they're also more likely to stick with the hardware."

"So the brief, if you like, for an entry-level studio product would a digital equivalent of an analogue four-track recorder, right? And in fact, even that's too complicated because these days with digital, you can have a guitar and then hit one button and you'll get drums, bass. so you can sit down and just record intuitively.

"The simplest version of Studio right now has a 150-page owner's manual, which I have said to the team is 149 pages too many. Because you should be able to get out of the box, press one button and you're off to the races. So that's again, a very easy brief but very difficult to execute. But there has been a gravitational pull by aficionados to just keep jamming more and more features into DAWS, when in fact, I think you need to take away more features, make it simpler and more intuitive and less expensive."

(EOQ)

I haven't seen a DAW that required an MIT degree; I taught myself Cakewalk 3 for DOS and continued from there. I now have an MM in Electronic Music Composition, but it was hardly necessary for me to understand my DAW. That, I did on my own long before I had a graduate degree. There is a learning curve; that's not to be debated, but that time is spent in learning to produce better sounding recordings. This is and should be a separate area of expertise apart from playing one's instrument and/or singing.

And here I was thinking that the manual for Studio One Professional could go into greater depth than the way it does.

It also is extraordinary that this gentleman believes that the sale of the software is not in any way an end in itself. The goal is to energize the sale of more hardware.

And that, taken at face value, is not at all a good sign for the continuing development of Studio One Professional as a truly professional platform.


----------



## sundrowned

outland said:


> I think this is the longest stretch between updates that I've seen.


Just had a quick look and it is. There was a bigger gap before v3 was released. December - May. 

The last update was in April. Hopefully it means a new version is on the way within the next month or so. But we'll see.


----------



## outland

Braveheart said:


> A Daw working great doesn’t necessarily need new features all the time.


This is certainly true; I would like, however, for the loose ends to be tied up a bit more. An example would be for all five dimensions of MPE to work. As it is, "Lift" is still not yet implemented. It's not a huge deal by any stretch, but if it did work, at least the weeks I spent trying to figure out what was "wrong" in Studio One 5 (with the aid of two different Presonus techies nonetheless) would feel "redeemed," if you catch my meaning.


----------



## Rudianos

When is the next sale of Studio One?


----------



## EgM

Rudianos said:


> When is the next sale of Studio One?


in the Buy/Sell forum 

Leo has it for 170!


----------



## zzz00m

I revisited the sound variations feature of Studio One today. I had not paid much attention to it so far, as the initial announcement seemed to focus on the integration with Vienna, which I don't have.

But today I ran across the free mini version of Babylonwaves Art Conductor for the free Spitfire BBCSO Discover library.
https://www.babylonwaves.com/free/

Worth checking out, especially if the full Art Conductor purchase seems appealing to you. It opens right up in the Sound Variations window in Studio One, with the articulations pre-mapped. Good for a live demo at least!

The free version also includes a PDF guide "Art Conductor For Spitfire BBCSO Discovery.pdf"


----------



## Lukas

Indeed a very nice freebie. The text does not mention Studio One but you find the Sound Variation Soundset download link below on the page.



zzz00m said:


> I had not paid much attention to it so far, as the initial announcement seemed to focus on the integration with Vienna, which I don't have.


The greatest part about Sound Variations in my opinion is the integrated editor that lets you create them pretty easily for your own libraries. I just did that for Berlin Con Sordino Strings and it took less than 2 minutes for each of the instruments to create those maps.

Talking about freebies: If you come from Cubase or Cakewalk and you already have Expression Maps or Cubase Patch Scripts or Cakewalk INS file, you can convert them to Sound Variations on https://studioonetoolbox.com

That works not only for sample libraries but also for external gear like synths or sound modules (Yamaha Motif, Roland XV, Korg Triton etc.) where you don't want to mess with Program Changes and LSB/MSB for simple preset changes...


----------



## Wunderhorn

zzz00m said:


> I revisited the sound variations feature of Studio One today. ...


Sound Variations are one big reason I ended up moving to Studio One. They are better than the equivalents in Logic and Cubase together. You can make your own articulation switches very fast. You almost don't need to bother with Art Conductor, it's that easy.


----------



## zzz00m

Lukas said:


> The text does not mention Studio One but you find the Sound Variation Soundset download link below on the page.


Correct, but as you say, the download link is included at the bottom, along with those for Logic Pro, Cubase, & Cakewalk. Studio One must have been a late addition... better late than never!


----------



## zzz00m

Wunderhorn said:


> You almost don't need to bother with Art Conductor, it's that easy.


Good point! I watched a few of Lukas' videos today. Well done Lukas! 

And I did upgrade to BBCSO Core a while back, and was wondering if Art Conductor would be worth it. I do have a few other titles they cover, such as Soundiron Elements and Amadeus Symphonic Library.


----------



## Lukas

zzz00m said:


> And I did upgrade to BBCSO Core a while back, and was wondering if Art Conductor would be worth it.


Definitely worth it if you like to save time. Although Spitfire Audio's player has started to add experimental support for the Sound Variation API so hopefully Spitfire libraries (the non-Kontakt ones, of course) will automatically send their articulations to Studio One soon. But there are still a ton of libraries/players that don't support it, and especially if you recall your articulations via Keyswitches (I personally don't), Art Conductor with its uniformed articulation mappings is a great time-saver.


----------



## EanS

Rudianos said:


> When is the next sale of Studio One?


Studio One Pro from Artist on BF via Best Service was near $180 last year. $200 directly at Presonus. 

Can't recall another major date, same goes for Notion, best discounts are on BF


----------



## Ricgus3

I have Studio One Artist at my work, I am trying to learn it (coming from a Reaper main). But I noticed Video Import is not supported on Artist? Seems suuuper strange in 2022


----------



## Lukas

What does the limitation of the Artist version have to do with the year 2022?


----------



## Ricgus3

Lukas said:


> What does the limitation of the Artist version have to do with the year 2022?


I mean, importing a video clip seems like an essential part in todays industry. Seems wierd it is not supported. I understand no editing supported but just having a film clip for scoring jobs should be basic features today


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Ricgus3 said:


> I mean, importing a video clip seems like an essential part in todays industry. Seems wierd it is not supported. I understand no editing supported but just having a film clip for scoring jobs should be basic features today


All basics versions of DAWs have limitations.


----------



## Ricgus3

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> All basics versions of DAWs have limitations.


Yes I guess so. I undestand the Artist must have drawbacks for it's cheaper price. If one has Pro can you edit the video file like in Reaper or Cubase somehow?


----------



## Obi-Wan Spaghetti

Ricgus3 said:


> Yes I guess so. I undestand the Artist must have drawbacks for it's cheaper price. If one has Pro can you edit the video file like in Reaper or Cubase somehow?


I don't know. But Reaper seems pretty cool for videos. That's all i know.


----------



## Ricgus3

Obi-Wan Spaghetti said:


> I don't know. But Reaper seems pretty cool for videos. That's all i know.


I just started exploring Studio One Artist Yesterday and all I can relate to is Reaper. So all my questions so far has been: "How do I do this thing in S1?".

So far I love sound variations. Super easy and great intuitive workflow for orchestral libraries (I mostly use that). Also I really like that you can make "track templates" by saving kontakt instances into a folder in files. So I have sofar setup alot of my strings so I can easy drag them in later on

What I don't like so far is before I foundthe "track tempalte" I found it perplexing I could not just select all tracks and add Kontakt to them all, I had to drag it one by one.... Not workflow friendly. But this sorted itself out when i saw Alex Pfeffers video on the kontakt instance saving.

Also had a hard time understanding why my 42 instences of Kontakt was still present in the Mixer view even though I had deleted all my tracks in the Project view. But I sorted it out aswell!


----------



## Lukas

Ricgus3 said:


> Also had a hard time understanding why my 42 instences of Kontakt was still present in the Mixer view even though I had deleted all my tracks in the Project view. But I sorted it out aswell!


Yep, that's because tracks aren't channels. You can still have the instrument in your song without any track assigned to it. Take a look at the instrument rack in the mixer. When you click the arrow, you can choose "Remove unused" to ....remove unused  That helps to tidy up the console view.



Ricgus3 said:


> What I don't like so far is before I foundthe "track tempalte" I found it perplexing I could not just select all tracks and add Kontakt to them all, I had to drag it one by one.... Not workflow friendly.


Absolutely valid - it's an "old hat". This should be changed. I'll pass along that request.


----------



## Ricgus3

Lukas said:


> When you click the arrow, you can choose "Remove unused" to ....remove unused


Thanks a ton! Super useful tip! Exactly what I wanted  Thanks Lukas!


----------



## Craig Allen

Ricgus3 said:


> What I don't like so far is before I foundthe "track tempalte" I found it perplexing I could not just select all tracks and add Kontakt to them all, I had to drag it one by one.... Not workflow friendly. But this sorted itself out when i saw Alex Pfeffers video on the kontakt instance saving.
> 
> Also had a hard time understanding why my 42 instences of Kontakt was still present in the Mixer view even though I had deleted all my tracks in the Project view. But I sorted it out aswell!


Are you referring to this LiveStream, or a different video?


----------



## Ricgus3

Craig Allen said:


> Are you referring to this LiveStream, or a different video?



A different video, this one:




What has happened for me recently though is got inspired by this studio one workflow so I did the same in reaper now, using its media explorer on the right side, setting root folder, setting up track templates the same way. So I have done this now for both studio one and reaper!


----------



## Craig Allen

Ricgus3 said:


> A different video, this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What has happened for me recently though is got inspired by this studio one workflow so I did the same in reaper now, using its media explorer on the right side, setting root folder, setting up track templates the same way. So I have done this now for both studio one and reaper!



Ah, thank you.


----------



## Shimoyjk

Btw, what midi controller(especially one with more than 1 fader. 2-8 would be enough) are you guys using? 

I bought nakedboards mc-8 and Im having hard time set it up. (Also I have to set mc-8 as instrument device as far as I know which is weird.) and also crashing and weird sample rate problem with mpc software.. 

but other than that I love S1. Its fast to work with, also it looks easier(than cubase 
Feel like cubase has lots of functions that I dont use.. but still I want to really give it a go someday).


----------



## zzz00m

Shimoyjk said:


> Btw, what midi controller(especially one with more than 1 fader. 2-8 would be enough) are you guys using?
> 
> I bought nakedboards mc-8 and Im having hard time set it up. (Also I have to set mc-8 as instrument device as far as I know which is weird.) and also crashing and weird sample rate problem with mpc software..
> 
> but other than that I love S1. Its fast to work with, also it looks easier(than cubase
> Feel like cubase has lots of functions that I dont use.. but still I want to really give it a go someday).


Not using it, but the PreSonus Faderport 8 control surface has had good reviews from users.

I am using an Arturia KeyLab Mk II keyboard controller which has a dedicated Studio One DAW mode, and provides for 9 knobs/9 faders, w transport controls, track select buttons, as well as solo, mute, record for selected track, etc. Works for me.


----------



## Shimoyjk

Ah, sorry I should’ve made myself clear. Faders for controlling cc numbers(Kontak or string vsts)

What are u guys using for this purpose?


----------



## EanS

Shimoyjk said:


> Ah, sorry I should’ve made myself clear. Faders for controlling cc numbers(Kontak or string vsts)
> 
> What are u guys using for this purpose?











The MIDI Maker


Custom MIDI and audio controllers for sound engineers, music composers, content creators, sound mixers, and more.




themidimaker.com


----------



## zzz00m

Shimoyjk said:


> Ah, sorry I should’ve made myself clear. Faders for controlling cc numbers(Kontak or string vsts)
> 
> What are u guys using for this purpose?


The faders and knobs on practically any MIDI keyboard controller can be mapped to CC numbers on virtual instruments. For example, in Kontakt you can MIDI learn the CC automation parameter for a control in the Kontakt UI by right clicking the control, selecting "Learn", then moving the physical control on your MIDI controller.

Then Kontakt remembers the CC# sent by that control.

I'm sure that everyone has their own preferred controller, but any of them should work.


----------



## Crevalation

Hi Guys, this is a great thread. 
Been using both Studio One and Cubase at the same time and Studio One’s work flow seem to be getting me to use it more and more. In terms of drawing cc curve in the midi editor, I noticed Studio One’s freehand tool doesn’t seem to allow a high resolution freestyle drawing, even selecting quantise at 1/64. Cubase’s freehand seems more natural and allow one to draw whatever you wish without losing much resolution i.e. drawing action are not automatically approximated into “rough” straightlines. Just checking how does some of you navigate this in Studio One? Many thanks.


----------



## zzz00m

Crevalation said:


> In terms of drawing cc curve in the midi editor, I noticed Studio One’s freehand tool doesn’t seem to allow a high resolution freestyle drawing, even selecting quantise at 1/64.


I have always thought that drawing automation curves by hand is tedious, in any DAW.

I like the "touch" method shown here by a Studio One expert, where you can write automation by moving a control during playback, such as a fader in this volume 101 tutorial.


----------



## EgM

Crevalation said:


> Hi Guys, this is a great thread.
> Been using both Studio One and Cubase at the same time and Studio One’s work flow seem to be getting me to use it more and more. In terms of drawing cc curve in the midi editor, I noticed Studio One’s freehand tool doesn’t seem to allow a high resolution freestyle drawing, even selecting quantise at 1/64. Cubase’s freehand seems more natural and allow one to draw whatever you wish without losing much resolution i.e. drawing action are not automatically approximated into “rough” straightlines. Just checking how does some of you navigate this in Studio One? Many thanks.


You can hold the shift key with the freehand draw tool and it'll allow freestyle drawing


----------



## Lukas

You might want to go into the Options -> Advanced -> Automation and set "Reduction Level" to 0%. Otherwise Studio One simplifies automation curves...


----------



## zzz00m

You can also use the automation "Touch" mode to record the movements of a VSTi control, such as a filter cutoff, on instrument tracks.


----------



## dterry

Crevalation said:


> Cubase’s freehand seems more natural and allow one to draw whatever you wish without losing much resolution i.e. drawing action are not automatically approximated into “rough” straightlines. Just checking how does some of you navigate this in Studio One? Many thanks.


As Lukas suggested, if you want to draw freehand, set automation reduction to 0%, then it is as dense as Cubase (though drawing, at least on my system, is actually easier/smoother in S1 than Cubase/Nuendo). 

But in my opinion, Studio One still has a significant advantage over Cubase for CC/automation: Bezier curves can be created MUCH more quickly.

You don't really had to draw freehand, but you can certainly start there, or with recorded CC/automation data. Once a rough curve is in place, just grab a point just after your starting point and drag it over and up to the peak of the curve (or wherever), then use the bezier mid-point to create a smooth curve. Bell curves are quick and easy - also note S1's mod keys to adjust the curve to either parabolic or exponential.

In Cubase, you can't drag a point past another point, so you have to manually select and delete all points to use the curve function. Makes zero sense, and sadly, I think it is a technical limitation in Steinberg's automation, so I doubt it will ever match Studio One's method.

Granted, nice looking curves are just graphical, and while the conversion back to CC data is likely more fluid than hand-drawn curves, it is still extrapolated to a less accurate set of points. But at least S1's handling makes it very quick to draw in and adjust CC/automation curves. This is a feature that really speeds up midi work in S1 over Cubase/Nuendo.


----------



## Crevalation

dterry said:


> As Lukas suggested, if you want to draw freehand, set automation reduction to 0%, then it is as dense as Cubase (though drawing, at least on my system, is actually easier/smoother in S1 than Cubase/Nuendo).
> 
> But in my opinion, Studio One still has a significant advantage over Cubase for CC/automation: Bezier curves can be created MUCH more quickly.
> 
> You don't really had to draw freehand, but you can certainly start there, or with recorded CC/automation data. Once a rough curve is in place, just grab a point just after your starting point and drag it over and up to the peak of the curve (or wherever), then use the bezier mid-point to create a smooth curve. Bell curves are quick and easy - also note S1's mod keys to adjust the curve to either parabolic or exponential.
> 
> In Cubase, you can't drag a point past another point, so you have to manually select and delete all points to use the curve function. Makes zero sense, and sadly, I think it is a technical limitation in Steinberg's automation, so I doubt it will ever match Studio One's method.
> 
> Granted, nice looking curves are just graphical, and while the conversion back to CC data is likely more fluid than hand-drawn curves, it is still extrapolated to a less accurate set of points. But at least S1's handling makes it very quick to draw in and adjust CC/automation curves. This is a feature that really speeds up midi work in S1 over Cubase/Nuendo.


Thanks everyone - setting the reduction level to 0% like @Lukas said AND holding the shift key when drawing did the trick. Sorted. @dterry, appreciate the mod key tip for toggling exponential/parabolic, and also draging midi data forward. Makes me want to use Studio One more. Thanks again guys.


----------



## THW

I am trying to improve my workflow in studio one with some macros and keyboard shortcuts. I like to look at my arrangement in the edit window. If I highlight several instruments while editing parts in the edit window, is there a way to map a keyboard or button to cycle or toggle back and forth only those selected instruments in the edit window? 

Another question I have: I would like to colorcode my instruments so I can better identify them in the edit window when working with the arrangement. This seems silly but I feel limited by the...shades or green for example to color code the string section -- there is not enough contrast to tell the instruments apart. Does anyone have any tips on this? Hope that makes sense.

Thanks!


----------



## samphony

THW said:


> I am trying to improve my workflow in studio one with some macros and keyboard shortcuts. I like to look at my arrangement in the edit window. If I highlight several instruments while editing parts in the edit window, is there a way to map a keyboard or button to cycle or toggle back and forth only those selected instruments in the edit window?
> 
> Another question I have: I would like to colorcode my instruments so I can better identify them in the edit window when working with the arrangement. This seems silly but I feel limited by the...shades or green for example to color code the string section -- there is not enough contrast to tell the instruments apart. Does anyone have any tips on this? Hope that makes sense.
> 
> Thanks!


1. do you mean visibility changes like showing only selected tracks or tracks with events at cursor?

2. did you try the studio one color toolbar?


----------



## THW

samphony said:


> 1. do you mean visibility changes like showing only selected tracks or tracks with events at cursor?
> 
> 2. did you try the studio one color toolbar?


Thank you!

1. EDIT: Now that I think about it, perhaps that changing visibility to only selected tracks would allow me to assign "previous track" and "next track" to only those highlighted tracks.......I'm not sure...but I greatly appreciate any input. Thanks @samphony *

Earlier note: 
Not quite. Let's say I highlight 4 instruments in my string section and a flute so I can see all tracks in the edit window (piano roll). I do this by highlighting particular events in the arrange window, then double clicking on one of them to pull them all up in the edit window (sidebar: is there a more efficient way to do this?)

Only the track I double clicked will be activated. Only one track is selected at a time. I'd like to find a key command to switch to another track only out of those I currently have pulled up in my edit window. So in this case, I'd like to press a button to cycle through the 4 string instruments to the flute --- I don't want to have to cycle through instruments outside of these in the edit window. I hope that is a bit clearer!

2. I have not but will check it out! Thank you for sharing


----------



## RoyBatty

THW said:


> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 2. I have not but will check it out! Thank you for sharing


if you have not installed and tried the studio one scripts below, I highly recommend them. The Nudge dialogue alone is fantastic.









Studio One Scripts | Studio One Toolbox


Studio One Toolbox - Your personal Studio One Online Toolbox with many additional features for Studio One! View song details online, export Presets and Song Notes, create Sound Variations and download Studio One Scripts.




s1toolbox.com


----------



## THW

RoyBatty said:


> if you have not installed and tried the studio one scripts below, I highly recommend them. The Nudge dialogue alone is fantastic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Studio One Scripts | Studio One Toolbox
> 
> 
> Studio One Toolbox - Your personal Studio One Online Toolbox with many additional features for Studio One! View song details online, export Presets and Song Notes, create Sound Variations and download Studio One Scripts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s1toolbox.com


wow, thanks I have installed a few from the exchange, appreciate you sharing the latest from Lukas with me. I need to take some next steps to assign some of these macros to my control surfaces. In doing so the drop down list of macros is quite long and I have some duplicates. Not a big deal but I haven't found a way to clean up that list. I'm also wondering if it's possible to use macros that are not in the toolbar. I found some called "activate layer" and "activate previous layer" under a list of track macros==curious if that will work for my earlier question, or if that is for recorded takes.


----------



## Shimoyjk

If there is anybody using MPC standalone device with MPC software, It's newest version(and firmware for standalone) kind of fixed issues that I had with Studio one. (Almost switch to Cubase for this. I'm using mpc live 2 as my main drum beat making machine, since I heavily into pop/rnb music these days.)

anyway, it seems more stable now.


----------



## daychase

I've recently started learning Studio One in the hopes that I can shift over to it from Logic Pro in case I end up switching to a non-Apple computer. There's a lot about it I really liked at first glance, things that Studio One does much better than Logic, including drum maps, a much more efficient plugin browser, and a significantly more capable score editor. I can see these things saving me a lot of time down the road, but just as noticeable are all the things I find myself missing from Logic.

I miss having proper volume and pan faders/knobs without opening the inspector; I miss being able to assign keyswitches to specific channels; I miss having send pans follow track pans automatically; and most of all right now, with the more cumbersome UI for volume and pan, I find myself missing the ability to assign a fader to control the volume of _any_ currently selected track, not just to assign it to a single specific track and to have to un-assign and re-assign it if I want to use the fader for a different track.
(Not to mention that I'm also concerned about what Studio One's limited video functionality might mean if I have to score to video at some point!)

No one DAW will be perfect, and I'm well aware of that, having moved from SONAR to Reaper to Logic previously. Again, there's much I like about Studio One, especially as a VSL enthusiast who's been benefiting from all the pre-configured Sound Variations and drum maps. There's just a few things that I can't help but ask to myself why on earth Presonus chose to do it the way they did that only seems to make things convoluted to set up and learn.


----------



## muziksculp

Is it likely that *Studio One Pro 6* will be released during Q4-2022 ?


----------



## Farkle

daychase said:


> I miss having proper volume and pan faders/knobs without opening the inspector; I miss being able to assign keyswitches to specific channels; I miss having send pans follow track pans automatically; and most of all right now, with the more cumbersome UI for volume and pan, I find myself missing the ability to assign a fader to control the volume of _any_ currently selected track, not just to assign it to a single specific track and to have to un-assign and re-assign it if I want to use the fader for a different track.


It looks like you don't have to unassign and reassign your controller, through the use of focus and global settings in Studio One. Vid tuts below:





Hope this helps,

Mike


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## Hunter123

I've heard it mentioned that Studio One is not good for large projects (I'm assuming large orchestral projects/templates). Is this still true with the latest updates of Studio One? What is Studio One not good at currently in regards to this or what does it need to improve upon?


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## Lukas

This was probably before Studio One 5.5.



antsteep said:


> A few pages back a video was shared that detailed the features that improved large templates









Studio One 5.5 Update - Available January 11th


If I dont see this dialog again in my life, it'd be too soon. -_-




vi-control.net







ka00 said:


> EDIT2: This is a huge performance gain. I think my number one complaint has been addressed by Presonus!


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## daychase

Farkle said:


> It looks like you don't have to unassign and reassign your controller, through the use of focus and global settings in Studio One.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Mike


Unfortunately, that's not what I'm talking about. Focus and Global modes are interesting ideas, but all mixer assignments are exclusively in global mode, meaning that what track you have selected in the mixer or transport is irrelevant.
Believe me; I've already watched those videos and have been speaking with a technical support representative about this.

I've been told by the same representative that it's _impossible_ using MIDI CC devices to assign a fader so that it will control mixer settings like volume and pan on whatever track is currently selected (ie: selecting a different track will let you adjust its levels using the same fader, not the track that was previously selected); that only devices with Mackie protocol or certain MIDI controllers with Studio One integration, such as the Nektar Panorama line, can do such a thing. It seems extremely arbitrary and limiting when other DAWs are able to handle it just fine, like Logic Pro.


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## Craig Allen

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Creating a new song using Import Song Data is a breeze!


Thanks so much for posting of your integrations with VEPro and S1!

With the new Track Presets in v.6, will this change your approach to templates and/or how you choose to integrate VEPro?


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## Craig Allen

Lukas said:


> For example, I get e-mails every day from Studio One users complaining that they have crashes and other issues with Waves 10 or Waves 11 in Studio One 5. Sure, because Waves 11 does not even support Studio One. People still try. And are surprised that it does not run flawlessly.
> 
> 
> The statement suggests that the host (Studio One) decides if a plug-in crashes or not. It does not.


Just seeing this... Long out of date by now. Waves does, as the same page has been updated. It supports VST3 since S1 v.4.


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## Zoot_Rollo

Craig Allen said:


> Thanks so much for posting of your integrations with VEPro and S1!
> 
> With the new Track Presets in v.6, will this change your approach to templates and/or how you choose to integrate VEPro?


I haven't upgraded to S1 v6 - doubt I will any time soon.


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## Lukas

Craig Allen said:


> Just seeing this... Long out of date by now. Waves does, as the same page has been updated. It supports VST3 since S1 v.4.


Waves 11 still does not support Studio One 5 or 6 (and it never will). There are still people that try to use Waves 11 with Studio One 5 and complain about crashes. So what I wrote is still relevant. Waves 11 does not support Studio One *from* version 4, it only supports *up to* version 4. Waves 12 supports V5 (in the VST3 version).


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## Craig Allen

Lukas said:


> Waves 11 still does not support Studio One 5 or 6 (and it never will). There are still people that try to use Waves 11 with Studio One 5 and complain about crashes. So what I wrote is still relevant. Waves 11 does not support Studio One *from* version 4, it only supports *up to* version 4. Waves 12 supports V5 (in the VST3 version).


So, the way you are reading and interpreting the Waves compatibility page would indicate that since Studio One 6 is only listed for Waves 14 compatibility that no Waves plugins could be expected to be reliable for Waves 13, 12 or prior with the current Studio One (6).

While this is the most literal interpretation of their compatibility page, it doesn't make rational sense. VST2 and VST3 have protocols which the DAW manufacturers and the Plugin Companies are supposed to follow. Why would either Presonus or Waves be implementing VST2 or VST3 protocol any differently now than a few years ago? 

By way of analogy: 
Samplitude has been my main DAW for 25+ years. (I'm 1-2 years in to Studio One -- for composing). Most of my Waves plugins are v.10. Some are 11-12, a few recent ones are 13-14. The Waves page shows Samplitude compatibility/testing through Pro X4 for Waves 10-12, and only v.13 and 14 for the recent Pro X6. And none show for the current Pro X7. But this is meaningless. Magix has always been rock solid with VST2 and got VST3 figured out between Pro X3 and Pro X4. I have no plugin issues with Samplitude -- with over 1000 on 2 machines, including about 100 from Waves. What worked in Pro X3 continued to work in X4, X5, X6, and X7. 

I just mention Samplitude as a parallel -- speaking from lived experience. 

Why would I expect that Presonus can't be as solid on VST implementation as Magix is? What would be different?


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## Lukas

Craig Allen said:


> VST2 and VST3 have protocols which the DAW manufacturers and the Plugin Companies are supposed to follow. Why would either Presonus or Waves be implementing VST2 or VST3 protocol any differently now than a few years ago?


Yes. "are supposted to follow"  It's all about testing. Reality is that if a software has not been tested properly in a certain host, there can be issues, incompatibilities, crashes etc. When new issues come up, Waves will only fix them in the latest version. They probably won't update Waves 11 because of an incorrect GUI or crashes due to faulty Metal support when running in Studio One 5.x. But they've made such improvements in version 12.



Craig Allen said:


> Why would I expect that Presonus can't be as solid on VST implementation as Magix is?


You can assume that Studio One has a solid VST3 implementation since the creator of Studio One also wrote the VST3 specification back then. But it's possible that Samplitude is more tolerant towards plug-ins that don't follow the specification. Studio One is rather known as "not fixing bugs inside 3rd-party plug-ins".


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## Craig Allen

Lukas said:


> When new issues come up, Waves will only fix them in the latest version. They probably won't update Waves 11 because of an incorrect GUI or crashes due to faulty Metal support when running in Studio One 5.x. But they've made such improvements in version 12.


Ah, so you seem to have almost insider awareness here (while I've clearly just been presuming). 

So, are you saying that whatever "faulty Metal support" is, that it was responsible for known crashes of Studio One 5, and that it was just best for S1-5 users to simply not use Waves 11 plugins?

Did the problem also occur with v.10 Waves plugins? (i.e. was it introduced with 11 and fixed with 12? Or had it been ongoing for some time, and not fixed until 12)?

Again -- I have simply had no issues with Waves 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 with Samplitude. Zero.
Now with their WUP: Yes, I have issues! But, not with theirs plugs!


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