# Build or buy expression maps?



## kimarnesen (Jan 14, 2018)

I wonder what the experience is with you who have purchased expression maps. It takes a lot of time to set those up if you have a few hundred tracks of course, but my experience is that since I've set them up myself, I remember quite well which keys I used. Now I'm about to build a new template and wonder if buying them instead is a good idea.


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## Sami (Jan 15, 2018)

I have spent thousands for sample libraries, the 25 € for the expression maps are not gonna save my soul. The time it takes to set exp maps up is worth more money than the maps themselves.


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## Jdiggity1 (Jan 15, 2018)

Sami said:


> ...the 25 € for the expression maps are not gonna save my soul.



Where are these expression maps available for purchase? Are there specific packs you two are referencing?


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## Sami (Jan 15, 2018)

Jdiggity1 said:


> Where are these expression maps available for purchase? Are there specific packs you two are referencing?



@babylonwaves just made a pack commercially available


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## Tfis (Jan 15, 2018)

I do my expression maps by myself. 
So i can make them the way I like.


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## kimarnesen (Jan 15, 2018)

Well, the question was not about money, but if making them yourself makes them easier to use because you have more overview of how they were set up?


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## Lassi Tani (Jan 15, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> I wonder what the experience is with you who have purchased expression maps. It takes a lot of time to set those up if you have a few hundred tracks of course, but my experience is that since I've set them up myself, I remember quite well which keys I used. Now I'm about to build a new template and wonder if buying them instead is a good idea.



I haven't purchased any, because I like to tweak things by myself. Though Cubase should make the expression map setup a bit more intuitive.


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## Tfis (Jan 15, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> Well, the question was not about money, but if making them yourself makes them easier to use because you have more overview of how they were set up?



I think so. 

How should a purchased expression map know, how my VI-Pro setup looks like? Or on what midi channel (when using play) the articulations are?
IMHO such 3rd party stuff only can work, if you won't touch the presets of your sample player.
The time I spent to learn how someone else thinks things should work, i can invest in building up my own stuff.

I try to keep my stuff consistent. So my keyswitches are all the same (B-1 is legato, if violin or flute or brass, doesn't matter). 

But it's just my opinion. There are many ways to reach a target.


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## Sami (Jan 15, 2018)

Tfis said:


> I try to keep my stuff consistent. So my keyswitches are all the same (B-1 is legato, if violin or flute or brass, doesn't matter).



The Art Conductor Product has consistency across the maps


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## babylonwaves (Jan 17, 2018)

kimarnesen said:


> I wonder what the experience is with you who have purchased expression maps. It takes a lot of time to set those up if you have a few hundred tracks of course, but my experience is that since I've set them up myself, I remember quite well which keys I used. Now I'm about to build a new template and wonder if buying them instead is a good idea.


no doubt about everybody having his own input method. and yes, to a degree this is where everything that comes from the outside cannot work instantly. the time consuming aspect of making an expression map is a) the mapping of the expression to the instrument b) the typing in all the articulation names. whereas changing the key switch (or program change if you prefer that) takes hardly any time.
i guess everybody here is more than capable of making an expression map. the question is if you like the task enough to sit down for a couple of hours.
hth


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## J-M (Jan 17, 2018)

sekkosiki said:


> I haven't purchased any, because I like to tweak things by myself. Though Cubase should make the expression map setup a bit more intuitive.



This. It's nice to scroll through dozens of them to select a new one, just because Steinberg can't make simple folder-system. For the love of God.


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## Sami (Jan 17, 2018)

babylonwaves said:


> no doubt about everybody having his own input method. and yes, to a degree this is where everything that comes from the outside cannot work instantly. the time consuming aspect of making an expression map is a) the mapping of the expression to the instrument b) the typing in all the articulation names. whereas changing the key switch (or program change if you prefer that) takes hardly any time.
> i guess everybody here is more than capable of making an expression map. the question is if you like the task enough to sit down for a couple of hours.
> hth



What you say is at the heart of the matter. My time as a composer (literally my working hour) is much more expensive than the price of your (brilliant) product. If I save 1 hour of making expression maps, your product at its current price has already paid off. This is the very essence of providing a "service".
Of course the guy who pays me to write "medieval style" music could sit down, read a couple of books, listen to 400 hours of medieval music, learn the style and then do it himself, but his time is not worth that, although formally speaking it's a better "investment". Thus he pays a professional a fee to do it for him.
I do the same. I pay a professional (babylon) the money for a product I COULD make myself if I wanted, but I prefer to have made for me to save my time.


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## kimarnesen (Jan 19, 2018)

My question was not about affording to buy expression maps, but if buying them is more or less effective for your workflow than creating them yourself and know them in detail as you made them.

If it makes my workflow easier if I make them myself, I would rather spend those few hours than being less effective when it’s time to use them.


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## FriFlo (Jan 19, 2018)

Well, I would certainly pay for someone doing all the work of creating expression maps, if that is well done ... even thought I will probably change most of those maps. But this collection is missing to much for me to consider it complete. There are no Orchestral Tool libraries included and for what is in it that I use (mostly Spitfire stuff) I would consider it a little to expensive.
Another thing to consider: Some time ago I had to create huge expression maps with lots of repetitive midi commands. I found a way to make that task quite easy by importing the XLS file to Excel and export it as XLS after that again. Could something like that be possible with the expression maps as well? After all, it is also a file to be exported ... if there way a way to easily edit those in a more convenient way (like Excel), it would be quite easy and quick to create expression maps! Which brings me to the idea: I would rather pay for an Expression Maps Editor ...


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## Vik (Jan 19, 2018)

Hopefully, buying/building expression maps will become a thing of the past for all except those who make the libraries (and the DAWs).


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## Sean J (Jan 3, 2020)

If it's of help to anyone here, I made an excel file that will export all your maps at once into the expression map files via a macro. I recently created a Dorico mapper thread on VI-Control also, but the url to both is here...

URL to Mappers

My answer is to map it yourself. I made my Cubase mapper in 2015 and since then, I've found it invaluable if I want to make a change, to be able to change my entire template at once with a few clicks. In short, it's 1000x easier to manipulate the data in Excel than the Cubase GUI. It's still a chore, but we're talking about spending 20 minutes playing around as opposed to hours, days, and years of tedious clicking.

And sorry, I know I'm replying to an old thread. But I figured most people here would still find it useful to know. Fyi, it requires Excel on a PC to run a macro, not the online version.

Cheers,
Sean


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## jgarciaserra (Feb 6, 2020)

wow It seems to be very useful and a time saver. I always program my own expression maps, but never with consistency trough the instruments. 
Thanks @scoredfilms, but I'm afraid I would need a tutorial


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Feb 6, 2020)

I do them myself, as I need them to work according to my workflow, and I often also change stuff around in the instruments themselves (keyswitches, CC mappings etc.), so pre-made expression maps wouldn't be of much use.


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## Sean J (Feb 6, 2020)

jgarciaserra said:


> wow It seems to be very useful and a time saver. I always program my own expression maps, but never with consistency trough the instruments.
> Thanks @scoredfilms, but I'm afraid I would need a tutorial



I posted a reply, about a tutorial, in a mapper thread. I figured it's best posted there.


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## toomanynotes (Feb 10, 2020)

So, the advice here is to build your own maps..great! So can anyone recommend me an expression map tutorial which is avoids the problems and issues you all mention? I want to build one for Orchestral Essentials 1 & 2 as I can’t find em anywhere. Thanks.


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## ptram (Feb 11, 2020)

I build my presets and maps. They are part of my personal workflow, and adapting to existing maps has proven not to work with me.

Paolo


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## barteredbride (Feb 11, 2020)

I guess everybody has different workflow, but for me, any way that can cut time doing ´technical´stuff and putting that time back to actually creating music, is good for me!

So I can totally recommend the using the @babylonwaves expression maps for Cubase.

A fabulous effort!


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## Dewdman42 (Feb 11, 2020)

scoredfilms said:


> If it's of help to anyone here, I made an excel file that will export all your maps at once into the expression map files via a macro. I recently created a Dorico mapper thread on VI-Control also, but the url to both is here...
> 
> URL to Mappers
> 
> ...



Very cool thanks for sharing! How do you go about generating the version ID numbers that are found in the XML?


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## Reid Rosefelt (Feb 11, 2020)

This thread sent me over to the BabylonWaves site, where I checked out what had been added to the Cubase set since my last download. I counted 37 expression maps sets, including quite a few libraries that I own.

This is a great deal. It just keeps getting better as time goes on.


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## Sean J (Feb 11, 2020)

Dewdman42 said:


> Very cool thanks for sharing! How do you go about generating the version ID numbers that are found in the XML?



No problem! I'm glad it might help someone out there aside from all the mapping I've done myself (way... way too much). I replied on the Dorico mapper thread, with a Dorico & Cubase answer to your question. I figure it's best answered there.


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## CatOrchestra (Aug 8, 2021)

babylonwaves said:


> no doubt about everybody having his own input method. and yes, to a degree this is where everything that comes from the outside cannot work instantly. the time consuming aspect of making an expression map is a) the mapping of the expression to the instrument b) the typing in all the articulation names. whereas changing the key switch (or program change if you prefer that) takes hardly any time.
> i guess everybody here is more than capable of making an expression map. the question is if you like the task enough to sit down for a couple of hours.
> hth


Any plans for creating expression maps for Dorico?


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## babylonwaves (Aug 8, 2021)

CatOrchestra said:


> Any plans for creating expression maps for Dorico?


Not in the near future.


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