# Notion 6 is out



## Noam Guterman

http://blog.presonus.com/index.php/2016/08/25/notion-6-available-now/


Handwriting recognition. Sounds promising. I'll check this out with my Surface Pro 4 and get back to you with the results.

One other great feature that is not stated elsewhere is the ability to still play a highlighted instrument whilst in play mode (like in Sibelius). I really wanted that on Notion and now I'm happy.


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## d.healey

Ooh looks interesting. my problem with notion is it's always had a limit of 4 midi out ports which isn't enough for a large template and I've just looked at the user guide and Notion 6 has this same restriction :(


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## proxima

What I wonder about: any improvements to its limited pedal capability? I can't even make variable pedal marks with Notion 5.


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## pinki

Agreed about limited midi ports...no need for that. 
I like Notion a lot. Sibelius has driven me nuts this year and I pretty much dumped it for Notion, with no regrets.


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## Paul T McGraw

pinki said:


> Agreed about limited midi ports...no need for that.
> I like Notion a lot. Sibelius has driven me nuts this year and I pretty much dumped it for Notion, with no regrets.



I have also had some frustrations with using Sibelius for playback. I don't want to hijack the thread, so I think I will start a new thread about current DAW alternatives. But please share what you like the most about Notion 6.


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## pinki

Well Notion is the most DAW-like notation program. The workflow in Notion is great. The mixer is intuitive (unlike the Sibelius mixer which is really why I abandoned Sibelius) and the score to instrument relationship is simple. 
I have started to use Digital Performer's notation, Quickscribe, this year and this is a great solution for DP users.. though it is arcane to say the least! However eventually it makes sense.


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## Paul T McGraw

pinki said:


> Well Notion is the most DAW-like notation program. The workflow in Notion is great. The mixer is intuitive (unlike the Sibelius mixer which is really why I abandoned Sibelius) and the score to instrument relationship is simple.
> I have started to use Digital Performer's notation, Quickscribe, this year and this is a great solution for DP users.. though it is arcane to say the least! However eventually it makes sense.



Have you used Notion with VSL instruments? If so, how difficult is it to manage all of the available articulations and sample alternatives?


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## pinki

Notion has in built VSL SE integration. I've not used it however. But articulations are easy to implement in Notion.


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## thov72

Noam Guterman said:


> http://blog.presonus.com/index.php/2016/08/25/notion-6-available-now/
> 
> 
> Handwriting recognition. Sounds promising. I'll check this out with my Surface Pro 4 and get back to you with the results.
> 
> One other great feature that is not stated elsewhere is the ability to still play a highlighted instrument whilst in play mode (like in Sibelius). I really wanted that on Notion and now I'm happy.


Hey Noam .... So...the handwriting recog....how is it?


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## Maximvs

For the people who are using Notion 6, how involved is the process of integrating third party libraries like Spitfire Chamber Strings and VSL libraries that do not have dedicated sound mapping already made inside Notion?

Thanks a lot in advance for any feedback,

Max T.


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## rgarber

Notion 6 was a bust for me but ONLY because the biggest problem of Notion is annotating the credits, copyright, instrument part; text stuff like that. So what I do is I leave some of that stuff off and print my instrument or vocal sheetmusic to PDF (which I then import into a desktop publisher and then add the stuff I left off). So I'm still using Notion 5 mostly though I could still be using Notion 6, I'm just so used to Notion 5 - it's a habit. Most of the other features in Notion I don't use. I have both Finale (much older version) and Sibilius 6 and hands down I find Notion to be the easiest note entry software to use. Very easy and quick to use.


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## cmillar

iff


thov72 said:


> Hey Noam .... So...the handwriting recog....how is it?



I'm using the handwriting to great satisfaction on my iPad4 iOS version of Notion. Takes a little 'transitioning' from pencil and paper, but you get faster after awhile. 

You can then transfer a score or ideas over to the big brother software.

After trying several different stylus', I'm loving the 'Adonit Jot Dash' stylus. Works best for me, as it feels very close to a pencil and paper.

Anybody successfully putting handwriting directly into the real computer version of Notion? What are you using?


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## Vavastrasza

Massimo said:


> For the people who are using Notion 6, how involved is the process of integrating third party libraries like Spitfire Chamber Strings and VSL libraries that do not have dedicated sound mapping already made inside Notion?
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance for any feedback,
> 
> Max T.



It uses XML rulesets which you can edit with a basic GUI built into Notion and then apply in the score. Generally these take the form of Condition/Action sets. So let's say you had Spitfire Chamber Strings loaded with its different articulations. You could create a rule that said Condition=TechniqueIsOn=Spiccato then perform Action=Send KeyswitchWHATEVER. Or the action could be other things like Channel Change. You would then set the score or a particular part of it to use your ruleset. When it came across a Spiccato marking in your score, it would perform the action you had specified. It works well and is not difficult to use.

Developing comprehensive sets of rules for huge libraries would certainly be somewhat involved and might require you to alter your working habits a bit, e.g. disciplining yourself to always set col legno as channel 8 or the like. For that reason I've only created a few simple rule sets myself so far but am planning to add to them gradually as I go. There are some efforts at rule set exchange/collaborative development on the Presonus forums.


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## Noam Guterman

thov72 said:


> Hey Noam .... So...the handwriting recog....how is it?


I'm gonna do a little comparison soon between Notion 6 and Staffpad on my Surface Pro 4


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## pinki

Noam Guterman said:


> http://blog.presonus.com/index.php/2016/08/25/notion-6-available-now/
> 
> One other great feature that is not stated elsewhere is the ability to still play a highlighted instrument whilst in play mode (like in Sibelius). I really wanted that on Notion and now I'm happy.



Noam what did you mean by this? Soloing an instrument by double clicking a bar to highlight it has always been in Notion....?


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## Noam Guterman

pinki said:


> Noam what did you mean by this? Soloing an instrument by double clicking a bar to highlight it has always been in Notion....?


Yeah but you couldnt audition a highlighted instrument via a keyboard controller while the project is playing (after your hit Space)


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## pinki

Ah I see, thanks for that.


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## Maximvs

Vavastrasza said:


> It uses XML rulesets which you can edit with a basic GUI built into Notion and then apply in the score. Generally these take the form of Condition/Action sets. So let's say you had Spitfire Chamber Strings loaded with its different articulations. You could create a rule that said Condition=TechniqueIsOn=Spiccato then perform Action=Send KeyswitchWHATEVER. Or the action could be other things like Channel Change. You would then set the score or a particular part of it to use your ruleset. When it came across a Spiccato marking in your score, it would perform the action you had specified. It works well and is not difficult to use.
> 
> Developing comprehensive sets of rules for huge libraries would certainly be somewhat involved and might require you to alter your working habits a bit, e.g. disciplining yourself to always set col legno as channel 8 or the like. For that reason I've only created a few simple rule sets myself so far but am planning to add to them gradually as I go. There are some efforts at rule set exchange/collaborative development on the Presonus forums.



Thanks a lot Vavastrasza for your kind feedback, much appreciated!

I am still undecided between Notion 6 and Overture 5 but I like the straight forward way on how Notion 6 integrates with third party libraries and VEPro... I will download a demo and test N6 very soon.

Best,

Max


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## Ponopus

pinki said:


> Well Notion is the most DAW-like notation program. The workflow in Notion is great. The mixer is intuitive (unlike the Sibelius mixer which is really why I abandoned Sibelius) and the score to instrument relationship is simple.
> I have started to use Digital Performer's notation, Quickscribe, this year and this is a great solution for DP users.. though it is arcane to say the least! However eventually it makes sense.



Forgive me, as I am new here and do not want to rock a boat with a senior member, but Notion 6 is for me the most un-DAW like software I have ever used for notation and midi control. The midi control features beyond the hairpins are frankly extremely primitive. For a start they are only applicable to third party VST sounds. They do not work with its native LSO sounds. Moreover, in order to manipulate midi data (an absolute requirement nowadays) you have to create the absurd "sequencer" track which is itself highly inflexible, rigid, and very poorly done. It looks like a desperate after thought. Using the description "sequencer track" is an insult to a proper one.

Notion 6 is ok for scoring - just about. Even versions of Sibelius years ago had at least a half baked function for manipulating midi data, but not very good. Notion 6 does (commendably) respond to not only velocity but also volume/expression through its hairpins, something that Sibelius does not (velocity only without custom and laborious midi editing). But if it can do this, that demonstrates how easy it should be to offer quite detailed midi control that achieves reasonable detail. After all, these functions were available, and quite well implemented, on software 30 years ago.

What makes Notion even worse for me is its "rules" function which are just about the most clumsy way of attempting to enable the kind of midi control that Cubase achieved decades ago in its cheapest version.

I just cannot see any connection at all between Notion 6 and any DAW like function, though I do agree that Sibelius's mixer is really terrible compared. But a mixer does not make a piece of decent music software.


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## Ponopus

Vavastrasza said:


> It uses XML rulesets which you can edit with a basic GUI built into Notion and then apply in the score. Generally these take the form of Condition/Action sets. So let's say you had Spitfire Chamber Strings loaded with its different articulations. You could create a rule that said Condition=TechniqueIsOn=Spiccato then perform Action=Send KeyswitchWHATEVER. Or the action could be other things like Channel Change. You would then set the score or a particular part of it to use your ruleset. When it came across a Spiccato marking in your score, it would perform the action you had specified. It works well and is not difficult to use.
> 
> Developing comprehensive sets of rules for huge libraries would certainly be somewhat involved and might require you to alter your working habits a bit, e.g. disciplining yourself to always set col legno as channel 8 or the like. For that reason I've only created a few simple rule sets myself so far but am planning to add to them gradually as I go. There are some efforts at rule set exchange/collaborative development on the Presonus forums.



The problem with the "rule sets" in Notion is that they in effect are telling a musician that he is a programmer. Instead of bothering to apply the rule sets internally from a use friendly menu system, Notion developers have said "we can't be bothered to do that". "Here, you do it". I am a composer NOT a programmer. The rule sets I have tried expose that fact. They all evoke XML errors. Why should I run through hoops to implement midi controls that were available through intuitive means by the lowest, cheapest sequencer marketed 30 years ago?


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## dcoscina

Ponopus said:


> The problem with the "rule sets" in Notion is that they in effect are telling a musician that he is a programmer. Instead of bothering to apply the rule sets internally from a use friendly menu system, Notion developers have said "we can't be bothered to do that". "Here, you do it". I am a composer NOT a programmer. The rule sets I have tried expose that fact. They all evoke XML errors. Why should I run through hoops to implement midi controls that were available through intuitive means by the lowest, cheapest sequencer marketed 30 years ago?


That's interesting. I like Notion because it feels friendlier to me because I studied when it was still pencil and paper. I'm fine with the playback in Notion, and the hairpins do work with the LSO samples but they are finicky. My only niggle is that it's not flexible enough for print out and formatting. I have to export the XML files to Sibelius 8 and work on them there. Playback in Sibelius with NotePerformer is actually quite good btw.


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## Ponopus

dcoscina said:


> That's interesting. I like Notion because it feels friendlier to me because I studied when it was still pencil and paper. I'm fine with the playback in Notion, and the hairpins do work with the LSO samples but they are finicky. My only niggle is that it's not flexible enough for print out and formatting. I have to export the XML files to Sibelius 8 and work on them there. Playback in Sibelius with NotePerformer is actually quite good btw.



Well there is no accounting for taste. When I first saw Notion 6 it did look clean and inviting. Then I found out the limitations. Your bugbear is print out and formatting. Mine is the total lack of detailed midi editing but I recognise it is pretty neat for sketching ideas if notation is your primary means for doing so.


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## dcoscina

Ponopus said:


> Well there is no accounting for taste. When I first saw Notion 6 it did look clean and inviting. Then I found out the limitations. Your bugbear is print out and formatting. Mine is the total lack of detailed midi editing but I recognise it is pretty neat for sketching ideas if notation is your primary means for doing so.


 all I was saying was that I've been using the program since day one and it works the way traditional composers work- notes and articulations and phrasing not production.

If you want more detailed performance playback try Overture or Dorico. Jack Jarrett, the creator of Notion, specifically did not want his program to be dipping it's toes into the world of midi and sequencers. 

Maybe you didn't intend to offend but just because I don't agree with your assessment of the program doesn't mean you should invalidate my opinion or taste.


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## Ponopus

dcoscina said:


> Maybe I read this wrong but this response seems like a diss. And I don't appreciate it when all I was saying was that I've been using the program since day one and it works the way traditional composers work- notes and articulations and phrasing. If you want more detailed performance playback try Overture or Dorico. Jack Jarrett, the creator of Notion, specifically did not want his program to be dipping it's toes into the world of midi and sequencers. Since Presonus bought it, they've started moving it towards a DAW like environment but that was never the aim of the program. Notion's main purposes is a creative compositional tool and not a production based one. And I use it a lot because I don't have to worry about farting around with midi editing or such because the intention is to have real musicians play the music when it's done. Or else I export it to Digital Performer and do a fuck load of tweaking and editing to make it playable on samples.



Apologies if I gave the wrong impression. I appreciate that you like the way Notion works. However Notion 6 specifically promotes itself thus: "Bring musical inspirations to life with the blazingly fast and intuitive Notion™ 6 music composition and performance environment." so it is actually promoting the idea of "performance" as well as compositional sketching.

I appreciate that the original author of Notion wanted to keep away from any extras to pure notation, but that is not what Presonus is doing with the 6th version.

It also sets great store by its "sequencer" track which it claims makes dynamic control "easy". In fact this sequencer track is the most clumsy and non user-friendly interface I have ever seen in 30 years of creating music with the aid of software.

Another very odd thing is the LSO samples it includes. These would be quite useful as "on-the-go" samples when out of reach of a permanent setup or when travelling, but the problem is, not only is there a complete absence of vibrato on nearly all the instruments, but imposing even a subtle one on top is nigh on impossible without very convoluted steps in the unfathomable "rules" module. Who would ever produce for instance a flute sample where no vibrato was possible?

This makes what could have been decent samples sound together like metallic organ-like timbres because nothing "moves" or changes in the expression of the stock sounds. This causes a horrible phasing effect.

The idea that in 2016 a sample-based notation package should not dip toes into sequencing is odd too. Notation software IS a sequencing product, but the sequencing is in written notes. The hairpins are indeed a manipulation of midi cc data and this shows that Notion is capable of midi control. But what the authors have done is to make user control data extremely hard to achieve. For me that restricts Notion to a very cut down version of Sibelius, which I already have, but even Sibelius offers quite a degree of midi control as its authors recognised that just being a notation package is not enough nowadays.

I do agree with a comment from one poster about Sibelius's mixer, which is a travesty of what a mixer should be.


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## pinki

When I said "DAW like" I was referring to the mixer in Notion and the way plugins work. I agree the sequencer track needs work! I guess you just don't like Notion which I do...horses for courses as they say.


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## Michael Antrum

In a moment of weakness I bought an Apple Pencil yesterday, and when I got home I added the handwriting module to Notion 6 for iPad. 

I bought Notion for iPad when I moved to Studio One 3 and picked up Notion at the same time, but whilst I liked the desktop version, as I found it quick and simple to get pretty good results, I never really used the iPad version very much at all - until now

It might be just the novelty of it, but I'm really loving this, and although I'm still picking up the finer points, I can sprawl out on the sofa, or in a cafe and notate with the same sort of convenience as if I were using pen and paper. This is going to transform not only how and where I write, but also how much, as I do a fair bit of travelling.

I was travelling back on the motorway and pulled in for a coffee break on the way back from the store. Literally twenty minutes later I had finished a small piano arrangement for my daughter, and saved it in in the cloud. One the way back I called home and it was downloaded, printed out and she was practising it as I walked through the door.

I think this is going to transform not only where and when I write, but also how much. Also the playback is helping me train my 'inner ear' to an even higher standard than before.

I know some of you veterans will be shaking your heads and saying, well this is nothing really new, but for me it'a a revelation...


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## dcoscina

mikeybabes said:


> In a moment of weakness I bought an Apple Pencil yesterday, and when I got home I added the handwriting module to Notion 6 for iPad.
> 
> I bought Notion for iPad when I moved to Studio One 3 and picked up Notion at the same time, but whilst I liked the desktop version, as I found it quick and simple to get pretty good results, I never really used the iPad version very much at all - until now
> 
> It might be just the novelty of it, but I'm really loving this, and although I'm still picking up the finer points, I can sprawl out on the sofa, or in a cafe and notate with the same sort of convenience as if I were using pen and paper. This is going to transform not only how and where I write, but also how much, as I do a fair bit of travelling.
> 
> I was travelling back on the motorway and pulled in for a coffee break on the way back from the store. Literally twenty minutes later I had finished a small piano arrangement for my daughter, and saved it in in the cloud. One the way back I called home and it was downloaded, printed out and she was practising it as I walked through the door.
> 
> I think this is going to transform not only where and when I write, but also how much. Also the playback is helping me train my 'inner ear' to an even higher standard than before.
> 
> I know some of you veterans will be shaking your heads and saying, well this is nothing really new, but for me it'a a revelation...


Great post! I love notion for both iPad and desktop. Quick question- I'm assuming you are using it with an iPad Pro correct?


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## Michael Antrum

Yes, I bought an iPad Pro -128gb 9.7". I went for the pro as it has better speakers mainly - and I'm so glad I did now I have the pencil and Notion 6.


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## rgarber

Hmm.. I thought about moving to Overture after I realized Presonus hadn't done a thing to improve the notation side of Notion 6 but of late I've been getting into the scoring side of what we do and I like so far the results I'm getting planning my music out instead of just winging it via a DAW. I'm just at the beginning stages of learning scoring and being able to hear it while I'm woodshedding. So I'm coming around to liking Notion 6 more than I wrote in an earlier post in this thread. I agree with a lot of the criticisms though. It's hard working with the included sounds and I'm thinking of using external sounds after I finish my first piece. But as far as polish goes, that end of it is always going to be done in a DAW (Studio One is what I use) for me. DAWs are just way too versatile to try and replace it with a hybrid of sorts, IMO. - Rich


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## MatFluor

I can't say anything about the handwriting since I don't own an iPad (I'm not fond of Apple products anyway).

After some years of not paying attention to scoring, I decided to get some knowledge there and take my composing in the orchestral style serious and wanted to start with notation software. Sibelius and Finale were way to expensive for me, and too difficult (not the usage, but more - working in pure notation is intimidating when you've never done it).
Then I came across Notion 6 (it was just fresh out) and my major point why I bought it was the possibility of playing live into it. So I saw what I was playing, I got the relation from score to the Keyboard way better. The score printing (engraving) are not as good as the competitors, but the possibility to put in VSTs on my wish and work similarly to a DAW was very welcoming. I was a StudioOne user before, so the integration is really nice. You can send Audio or Midi directly into StudioOne, with naming an dynamics carrying over as well.

I also don't know Ouverture, but if I hadn't had bought Notion it might be a competitor - but the "seamless" integration into StudioOne is just very nice.

I personally don't like the bundled sounds - but they are great on a mobile computer or to quickly get going - although Garriton PO is loaded fast as well. It also has some pre-defined mappings for VSL and LASS (I think) - meaning markers like pianissimo and staccato resolve in the responding keyswitches in the VST (you can also define this stuff yourself, although admitted a bit clunky.

Greets,
Mat


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## NYC Chaz

I love Notion.If you own the complete sound bundle,many articulations are covered.To me the sounds are better than Noteperformer or any of the bundled sounds that come with Sibelius or Finale.The new integration with Studio One is a big step forward that hopefully will keep getting better.I tried Overture 5 and to my mind could wind up being the best notation program in the future.


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## mikeh-375

Anybody got Notion6 with a wacom mobile tablet. Just wondering how good the handwriting is as I do that best and am not bothered about anything other than getting a printable score - I just wanna sit on the sofa and punch in some big works!


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## mwarsell

Hello Notion users!

Can Notion 6 do a conductor's staff above the system? You know, hit points to a video, a click track, timecode in 0:00:00 format etc?


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## MatFluor

mwarsell said:


> Hello Notion users!
> 
> Can Notion 6 do a conductor's staff above the system? You know, hit points to a video, a click track, timecode in 0:00:00 format etc?



Yeah - as soon as you add a video to your score, such a staff is automatically added. You can go through the video frame by frame (or 10 frames etc.) and set Hitpoints. You can also make a particular part slower "fit in time".

See Screenshot (taken from the manual):


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## Mr. Ha

Is Notion a good option to finale and sibelius? I write and orchestrate in Logic Pro and till now I've used the score editor in Logic but am thinking about getting a more "pro" option for editing scores. so is notion a good option?


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## MatFluor

Mr. Ha said:


> Is Notion a good option to finale and sibelius? I write and orchestrate in Logic Pro and till now I've used the score editor in Logic but am thinking about getting a more "pro" option for editing scores. so is notion a good option?



It depends what you want. Notion is a good Notation software, but if you want to prepare scores for an orchestra, it doesn't look professional enough imo. To hand out for some single instrumentalists "as friends" it's totally fine, but publishers or orchestrators would laugh at it - and you have very limited ooptions to fine-tune your layout.

I use it for sketching (almost nothing faster for me) and some quick things - and as said, if I need a cellist to play something or for a lead sheet - totally fine. But not somewhere where pros would find it "nice to look at" (when they are used to professionally engaved scoreS)


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