# Do people realise how good the Arturia KeyLab 88 Mk II is?



## ZeroZero

Like many, I have been on the quest for a satsfying controller/controller keyboard, for some time. I have had lots of gear through my studio, Korg Nanos, M Audiio gear, Necktars, Akais and more, but all have dissapointed. Nightmarish set ups and general flakiness, things just not happening when they should and as far as keboard controllers go, kebeds that play like toys. I spent more time on set up than I did no using these things, often things just would not work, after days of trying.
I am a pianist. I have a wonderful old Roland 700NX, which has a fantastic piano action and a very decent concert grand sound. That's my Goto. If it was going to be replaced, it was because it is a stage piano and is very limited as a controller keyboard. This board cost me £3500 back in the day. I have tried to replace it with Nords and with its successor the RD 2000 but it did not work here.

I think I have just found its successor, and for £750 UK!

Before we even go into the (great) details of the keyboard, its worth mentioning the bundled software. First there is Analog Lab 5 - that's 6500 sounds rightv there - all instantly mapped to the keyboard. Then there is analog 4 too. You also get a full version of a VOx Continental, A full version of a Wurli, Piano V2 - 12 modelled pianos, and something called MIDI control centre an excellent on screen controller of your hardware. Click on a feature (fader, button etc) and assign). If you were to buy all this from Arturia, it would cost you more than the price of thev keyboard. Oh and there is Ableton Light, whatever that is  .

I set up with Cubase 11. To be honest I could not ffind the right instructions on the web, so I was fiddling around. However, once I found the correct instructions here:https://www.arturia.com/faq/keylabmkii/keylab-mkii-tips-tricks, it took about 5 minutes. DO follow to the letter and you should be fine. Its not quite plug and play as Arturia claims, but once you tweak Mackie Control it works great.

Let's talk about the build. First it has a metal chassis. It looks great in white and also comes in black. Overall the knonbs and faders get a solid 8/10 here. They are far better than say M AUdio or Korg Stuff, but not quite as good as my Roland, which would be happy after an elephant sat on it. I had one pot with a slight haptic crunch (ever so slight), I notified Arturia and have decided to live with it and see if it goes.The buttons are perfect, the 16 drum pads are velocity and after touch sensitive (I can't judge them as I am not a finger drummer) the nine faders are also very good quality and work smooth and quiet.

The back panel is impressive. Its hte best I have seen. Not only does it have expression and control inputs (also assignable), but no less than three extra aux pedal inputs, all assignable. If this is not enough for you it even has 4 special inputs for real analogue synths (which I do not understand). It has old skool MIDI and USB, it has a power input, but oyu do not need this if you are using USB.

The Keybed is a Fatar TP/100LR. This is hammer action and after touch sensitive. I am spoilt by my Roland and have very high stands here. I need a proper action and full expressitivity. COuld I use this as my GOTO. Yes!
I did find that out of the box the V2 paino's did not work well with the keyboard. However, after some tweaking of teh velocity curves I got better results. I give the V pianos 8.5 / 10, but I think I will be using Pianoteq.

I really like the way Arturia has thought this all out. The keyboard is set up around three central buttons: "Analog Lab", "DAW" and "User".

The first button maps the keyboard to work seemlessly with Analog Lab. The sounds of these synths are top of the line. The best way to control these is in the software - MIDI COntrol Centre. This gives a picture of the keyboard and all the knobs are assignable within. Using Analogue labs 24 Analog synthesizers. Digital synthesizers. Acoustic pianos. Electric pianos, Organs, Strings and samplers are all set up for you with the knobs clearly labelled and modifiable. The only frustration I have found, is that the MIDI COntroller wont work with other instruments loaded, so you have to make your modifications in silence . Of course you can make changes in the hardware's VDU but this is tiny.

The second mode is DAW Mode. As expected, this is dedicated to your DAW. There are pre- programmed custom set ups for each DAW. Ableton is favoured (again what is this?) . All you do is long press the DAW button and scroll for your DAW - done.

For Cubase you get dedicated buttons for transport, undo, solo, mut, record, read, write. save, metronome punch in and punch out. The ninth fader is set up for Master Out and the other veight faders are set up for valume for a bank of the first eight tracks, you can jump or scroll to the next bank of 8 etc. The big knob is set up for scrub. The rotaries for Pan. Te buttons below the faders are used to select tracks (or the back and forward buttons) and *YOU? You needed to set up nothing but select Cubase with two clicks! All you did was long press the DAW button and scroll to select Cubase Mode.*

The final Mode is USER mode. This is similar to DAW mode, all the transport functions still work as in DAW mode, except the faders are now not dedicated to Volume, but are assingable using MIDI learn. So, for example if oon track one, one has Omnisphere and wat to control both the track volume and the Omni cut off, all one has to do is swithc to DAW mode to control track volume using fader 1, then to user mode and assign fader 1 to Cut off in Omni. It's a matter of a single click once set up and setting up is only three clicks. The pots (Pan in DAW mode) are also assignable in user mode. 
Switching between these three modes - Analog Labs, DAW and User is a single click

Summary.
I am super impressed. This is easily the best controller I have used. My M Audio Oxygen 25, My BCF 2000, my Nano Kontrol Studio are all up for sale. 
Not only is this the best controller I have used, but it is also a fine FATAR piano keyboard. I load it with Pianoteq and I can play for hours. Aftertouch too? Drumpads with aftertouch? Nine faders?

£750, with£750 of free software? 

I can be picky, motirised faders would be very good. The pots get 8/10 not 10/10. I would love to be able to use the MIDI control Center with a DAW running or a standalone instrument running. 

But is there better? I doubt it. The Komplete Kontrol I suppose comes closest. It has a better VDU, but no faders or drum pads and only 2 pedal inputs (comapred to five).


Anyway guys, you can see I like it. It's here to stay. I hope you enjoyed the review

Z


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## Markrs

ZeroZero said:


> Like many, I have been on the quest for a satsfying controller/controller keyboard, for some time. I have had lots of gear through my studio, Korg Nanos, M Audiio gear, Necktars, Akais and more, but all have dissapointed. Nightmarish set ups and general flakiness, things just not happening when they should and as far as keboard controllers go, kebeds that play like toys. I spent more time on set up than I did no using these things, often things just would not work, after days of trying.
> I am a pianist. I have a wonderful old Roland 700NX, which has a fantastic piano action and a very decent concert grand sound. That's my Goto. If it was going to be replaced, it was because it is a stage piano and is very limited as a controller keyboard. This board cost me £3500 back in the day. I have tried to replace it with Nords and with its successor the RD 2000 but it did not work here.
> 
> I think I have just found its successor, and for £750 UK!
> 
> Before we even go into the (great) details of the keyboard, its worth mentioning the bundled software. First there is Analog Lab 5 - that's 6500 sounds rightv there - all instantly mapped to the keyboard. Then there is analog 4 too. You also get a full version of a VOx Continental, A full version of a Wurli, Piano V2 - 12 modelled pianos, and something called MIDI control centre an excellent on screen controller of your hardware. Click on a feature (fader, button etc) and assign). If you were to buy all this from Arturia, it would cost you more than the price of thev keyboard. Oh and there is Ableton Light, whatever that is  .
> 
> I set up with Cubase 11. To be honest I could not ffind the right instructions on the web, so I was fiddling around. However, once I found the correct instructions here:https://www.arturia.com/faq/keylabmkii/keylab-mkii-tips-tricks, it took about 5 minutes. DO follow to the letter and you should be fine. Its not quite plug and play as Arturia claims, but once you tweak Mackie Control it works great.
> 
> Let's talk about the build. First it has a metal chassis. It looks great in white and also comes in black. Overall the knonbs and faders get a solid 8/10 here. They are far better than say M AUdio or Korg Stuff, but not quite as good as my Roland, which would be happy after an elephant sat on it. I had one pot with a slight haptic crunch (ever so slight), I notified Arturia and have decided to live with it and see if it goes.The buttons are perfect, the 16 drum pads are velocity and after touch sensitive (I can't judge them as I am not a finger drummer) the nine faders are also very good quality and work smooth and quiet.
> 
> The back panel is impressive. Its hte best I have seen. Not only does it have expression and control inputs (also assignable), but no less than three extra aux pedal inputs, all assignable. If this is not enough for you it even has 4 special inputs for real analogue synths (which I do not understand). It has old skool MIDI and USB, it has a power input, but oyu do not need this if you are using USB.
> 
> The Keybed is a Fatar TP/100LR. This is hammer action and after touch sensitive. I am spoilt by my Roland and have very high stands here. I need a proper action and full expressitivity. COuld I use this as my GOTO. Yes!
> I did find that out of the box the V2 paino's did not work well with the keyboard. However, after some tweaking of teh velocity curves I got better results. I give the V pianos 8.5 / 10, but I think I will be using Pianoteq.
> 
> I really like the way Arturia has thought this all out. The keyboard is set up around three central buttons: "Analog Lab", "DAW" and "User".
> 
> The first button maps the keyboard to work seemlessly with Analog Lab. The sounds of these synths are top of the line. The best way to control these is in the software - MIDI COntrol Centre. This gives a picture of the keyboard and all the knobs are assignable within. Using Analogue labs 24 Analog synthesizers. Digital synthesizers. Acoustic pianos. Electric pianos, Organs, Strings and samplers are all set up for you with the knobs clearly labelled and modifiable. The only frustration I have found, is that the MIDI COntroller wont work with other instruments loaded, so you have to make your modifications in silence . Of course you can make changes in the hardware's VDU but this is tiny.
> 
> The second mode is DAW Mode. As expected, this is dedicated to your DAW. There are pre- programmed custom set ups for each DAW. Ableton is favoured (again what is this?) . All you do is long press the DAW button and scroll for your DAW - done.
> 
> For Cubase you get dedicated buttons for transport, undo, solo, mut, record, read, write. save, metronome punch in and punch out. The ninth fader is set up for Master Out and the other veight faders are set up for valume for a bank of the first eight tracks, you can jump or scroll to the next bank of 8 etc. The big knob is set up for scrub. The rotaries for Pan. Te buttons below the faders are used to select tracks (or the back and forward buttons) and *YOU? You needed to set up nothing but select Cubase with two clicks! All you did was long press the DAW button and scroll to select Cubase Mode.*
> 
> The final Mode is USER mode. This is similar to DAW mode, all the transport functions still work as in DAW mode, except the faders are now not dedicated to Volume, but are assingable using MIDI learn. So, for example if oon track one, one has Omnisphere and wat to control both the track volume and the Omni cut off, all one has to do is swithc to DAW mode to control track volume using fader 1, then to user mode and assign fader 1 to Cut off in Omni. It's a matter of a single click once set up and setting up is only three clicks. The pots (Pan in DAW mode) are also assignable in user mode.
> Switching between these three modes - Analog Labs, DAW and User is a single click
> 
> Summary.
> I am super impressed. This is easily the best controller I have used. My M Audio Oxygen 25, My BCF 2000, my Nano Kontrol Studio are all up for sale.
> Not only is this the best controller I have used, but it is also a fine FATAR piano keyboard. I load it with Pianoteq and I can play for hours. Aftertouch too? Drumpads with aftertouch? Nine faders?
> 
> £750, with£750 of free software?
> 
> I can be picky, motirised faders would be very good. The pots get 8/10 not 10/10. I would love to be able to use the MIDI control Center with a DAW running or a standalone instrument running.
> 
> But is there better? I doubt it. The Komplete Kontrol I suppose comes closest. It has a better VDU, but no faders or drum pads and only 2 pedal inputs (comapred to five).
> 
> 
> Anyway guys, you can see I like it. It's here to stay. I hope you enjoyed the review
> 
> Z


Really nice to see someone happy with their new keyboard/midi controller. Not had an Arturia keyboard but I do hear good things about them, especially build quality.


----------



## dcoscina

The Keylab 88 II has the exact same Fatar keybed as the NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2. It feels slightly different due to the metal case Arturia uses as opposed to the Native Instruments which is housed in a plastic case. I find both slightly sluggish in their response. 

I work in keyboard sales so I have lots of experience with both these boards.


----------



## pixelcrave

ZeroZero said:


> Like many, I have been on the quest for a satsfying controller/controller keyboard, for some time. I have had lots of gear through my studio, Korg Nanos, M Audiio gear, Necktars, Akais and more, but all have dissapointed. Nightmarish set ups and general flakiness, things just not happening when they should and as far as keboard controllers go, kebeds that play like toys. I spent more time on set up than I did no using these things, often things just would not work, after days of trying.
> I am a pianist. I have a wonderful old Roland 700NX, which has a fantastic piano action and a very decent concert grand sound. That's my Goto. If it was going to be replaced, it was because it is a stage piano and is very limited as a controller keyboard. This board cost me £3500 back in the day. I have tried to replace it with Nords and with its successor the RD 2000 but it did not work here.
> 
> I think I have just found its successor, and for £750 UK!
> 
> Before we even go into the (great) details of the keyboard, its worth mentioning the bundled software. First there is Analog Lab 5 - that's 6500 sounds rightv there - all instantly mapped to the keyboard. Then there is analog 4 too. You also get a full version of a VOx Continental, A full version of a Wurli, Piano V2 - 12 modelled pianos, and something called MIDI control centre an excellent on screen controller of your hardware. Click on a feature (fader, button etc) and assign). If you were to buy all this from Arturia, it would cost you more than the price of thev keyboard. Oh and there is Ableton Light, whatever that is  .
> 
> I set up with Cubase 11. To be honest I could not ffind the right instructions on the web, so I was fiddling around. However, once I found the correct instructions here:https://www.arturia.com/faq/keylabmkii/keylab-mkii-tips-tricks, it took about 5 minutes. DO follow to the letter and you should be fine. Its not quite plug and play as Arturia claims, but once you tweak Mackie Control it works great.
> 
> Let's talk about the build. First it has a metal chassis. It looks great in white and also comes in black. Overall the knonbs and faders get a solid 8/10 here. They are far better than say M AUdio or Korg Stuff, but not quite as good as my Roland, which would be happy after an elephant sat on it. I had one pot with a slight haptic crunch (ever so slight), I notified Arturia and have decided to live with it and see if it goes.The buttons are perfect, the 16 drum pads are velocity and after touch sensitive (I can't judge them as I am not a finger drummer) the nine faders are also very good quality and work smooth and quiet.
> 
> The back panel is impressive. Its hte best I have seen. Not only does it have expression and control inputs (also assignable), but no less than three extra aux pedal inputs, all assignable. If this is not enough for you it even has 4 special inputs for real analogue synths (which I do not understand). It has old skool MIDI and USB, it has a power input, but oyu do not need this if you are using USB.
> 
> The Keybed is a Fatar TP/100LR. This is hammer action and after touch sensitive. I am spoilt by my Roland and have very high stands here. I need a proper action and full expressitivity. COuld I use this as my GOTO. Yes!
> I did find that out of the box the V2 paino's did not work well with the keyboard. However, after some tweaking of teh velocity curves I got better results. I give the V pianos 8.5 / 10, but I think I will be using Pianoteq.
> 
> I really like the way Arturia has thought this all out. The keyboard is set up around three central buttons: "Analog Lab", "DAW" and "User".
> 
> The first button maps the keyboard to work seemlessly with Analog Lab. The sounds of these synths are top of the line. The best way to control these is in the software - MIDI COntrol Centre. This gives a picture of the keyboard and all the knobs are assignable within. Using Analogue labs 24 Analog synthesizers. Digital synthesizers. Acoustic pianos. Electric pianos, Organs, Strings and samplers are all set up for you with the knobs clearly labelled and modifiable. The only frustration I have found, is that the MIDI COntroller wont work with other instruments loaded, so you have to make your modifications in silence . Of course you can make changes in the hardware's VDU but this is tiny.
> 
> The second mode is DAW Mode. As expected, this is dedicated to your DAW. There are pre- programmed custom set ups for each DAW. Ableton is favoured (again what is this?) . All you do is long press the DAW button and scroll for your DAW - done.
> 
> For Cubase you get dedicated buttons for transport, undo, solo, mut, record, read, write. save, metronome punch in and punch out. The ninth fader is set up for Master Out and the other veight faders are set up for valume for a bank of the first eight tracks, you can jump or scroll to the next bank of 8 etc. The big knob is set up for scrub. The rotaries for Pan. Te buttons below the faders are used to select tracks (or the back and forward buttons) and *YOU? You needed to set up nothing but select Cubase with two clicks! All you did was long press the DAW button and scroll to select Cubase Mode.*
> 
> The final Mode is USER mode. This is similar to DAW mode, all the transport functions still work as in DAW mode, except the faders are now not dedicated to Volume, but are assingable using MIDI learn. So, for example if oon track one, one has Omnisphere and wat to control both the track volume and the Omni cut off, all one has to do is swithc to DAW mode to control track volume using fader 1, then to user mode and assign fader 1 to Cut off in Omni. It's a matter of a single click once set up and setting up is only three clicks. The pots (Pan in DAW mode) are also assignable in user mode.
> Switching between these three modes - Analog Labs, DAW and User is a single click
> 
> Summary.
> I am super impressed. This is easily the best controller I have used. My M Audio Oxygen 25, My BCF 2000, my Nano Kontrol Studio are all up for sale.
> Not only is this the best controller I have used, but it is also a fine FATAR piano keyboard. I load it with Pianoteq and I can play for hours. Aftertouch too? Drumpads with aftertouch? Nine faders?
> 
> £750, with£750 of free software?
> 
> I can be picky, motirised faders would be very good. The pots get 8/10 not 10/10. I would love to be able to use the MIDI control Center with a DAW running or a standalone instrument running.
> 
> But is there better? I doubt it. The Komplete Kontrol I suppose comes closest. It has a better VDU, but no faders or drum pads and only 2 pedal inputs (comapred to five).
> 
> 
> Anyway guys, you can see I like it. It's here to stay. I hope you enjoyed the review
> 
> Z



Since you're familiar with Roland, I'm curious how the Keylab Fatar key's feels differ from Roland's. I have a Roland RD-88 (PHA-4 key actions), and I like it a lot for playing piano and anything between slow to moderately-fast stuff. But over time I realize that as a controller it may not be as versatile as I'd like it to be, especially for playing faster stuff (quick ostinatos) — it feels sluggish... sometimes I have to hook up my Arturia Minilab for its lighter/synth actions just so I can give my fingers a break.

Thoughts?


----------



## shapeshifter00

dcoscina said:


> The Keylab 88 II has the exact same Fatar keybed as the NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2. It feels slightly different due to the metal case Arturia uses as opposed to the Native Instruments which is housed in a plastic case. I find both slightly sluggish in their response.
> 
> I work in keyboard sales so I have lots of experience with both these boards.



Any other recommendations when it comes to 61 keys that is less sluggish and do not have keys that create a lot of sound when hammering spiccato notes?


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## José Herring

dcoscina said:


> The Keylab 88 II has the exact same Fatar keybed as the NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2. It feels slightly different due to the metal case Arturia uses as opposed to the Native Instruments which is housed in a plastic case. I find both slightly sluggish in their response.
> 
> I work in keyboard sales so I have lots of experience with both these boards.


David, what do you like as a good 88 key controller reasonably priced? I'm in the market. It doesn't have to be weighted I almost prefer that it isn't weighted but I do understand that a non-weighted 88 keyboard is hard to find.


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## Rory

dcoscina said:


> The Keylab 88 II has the exact same Fatar keybed as the NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2. It feels slightly different due to the metal case Arturia uses as opposed to the Native Instruments which is housed in a plastic case. I find both slightly sluggish in their response.
> 
> I work in keyboard sales so I have lots of experience with both these boards.


Close enough in price that issues other than the action are likely to be considered. Sweetwater:

Arturia Keylab 88 Mk II: $900
Komplete Kontrol S88 MK II: $1050
​


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## dcoscina

non weighted affordable fare always seem to suffer from lackluster build quality, noisy springs and a generally poor aesthetic. I think the Keystation 88 Mk3 is an improvement over the original from M Audio but the keys are noisy I'm told (I've not played one yet). I actually thought StudioLogic Numa wasn't bad for a non weighted board. There used to be more high quality 88 note semi weighted boards out there but not as many now.


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## dcoscina

shapeshifter00 said:


> Any other recommendations when it comes to 61 keys that is less sluggish and do not have keys that create a lot of sound when hammering spiccato notes?


Funny enough the best semi weighted board i've played is the Keylab 61 mk2. It has the same gorgeous action as the MatrixBrute which is $3000 CAD. I used one for composing a while back when I took one out on a staff loan. The only stupid thing about it is the sliders are located on the right not left. our product rep contact asked me to design suggestions on behalf of Arturia and I told him to make sure they relocate the sliders for future versions!!!


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## Selfinflicted

I hate it when sliders are on one side - middle makes a lot more sense. Anyone can reach the middle of you’re right or lefty. I use both hands on the faders depending on what I’m doing.

I have a KeyLab 88 mkI which i generally like but the faders And screen died. It lasted maybe a year or two. They should definitely last longer than that. I had a kurzweil k2500x hat lasted forever. Thinks just don’t
Last anymore.


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## cuttime

I've had a KL88 MKII for about 18 months now. I'd like to add a little bit of a counterpoint. Yes, the build quality is good, but the Fatar keybeds are a bit inconsistent in quality. The KL88MK2's keys are better than the MK1 because (I think) they added some kind of padding to stop the impact noise. Some of my keys have had an annoying rattle in them from day one, but it doesn't affect the quality of the response. After the warranty, I had a rotary encoder start to get jumpy, even though I kept the KL88 covered and clean, with very little hard use. I found that judicious use of Deoxit F5 helped a great deal, but I have to keep using it to keep it smooth. I'd like to know if the encoder can be replaced easily. My guess is that it's soldered to the main board. If you look at the Arturia forums, you may see the same comments mentioned.

I'd also like to mention that the pads have polyphonic aftertouch, something that the specs don't mention. The keys do not.

The Arturia included software is quite good, IMHO. The Piano V sounds can be greatly tamed by using the "hardness" control in the "Action" section.


----------



## Markrs

pixelcrave said:


> Since you're familiar with Roland, I'm curious how the Keylab Fatar key's feels differ from Roland's. I have a Roland RD-88 (PHA-4 key actions), and I like it a lot for playing piano and anything between slow to moderately-fast stuff. But over time I realize that as a controller it may not be as versatile as I'd like it to be, especially for playing faster stuff (quick ostinatos) — it feels sluggish... sometimes I have to hook up my Arturia Minilab for its lighter/synth actions just so I can give my fingers a break.
> 
> Thoughts?


I have a FP-10 with the same PHA-4 keybed and have had the same experience. For most stuff I love it but when you want to do quicker notes I find it sluggish compared to spring/synth type keybed


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## Paulogic

Good info here. I am/was thinking of replacing my S61MK2 with a Arturia K88MK2 (because it
would fit my desk) and also selling my Mikro3 because I only use it for some fingerdrumming.
But now I'm thinking I could better keep everything and if I want a real 88 hammered keybed,
I 'd better add a affordable dig piano with a nice keybed. Then I have both kind of keys.


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## ZeroZero

cuttime said:


> I've had a KL88 MKII for about 18 months now. I'd like to add a little bit of a counterpoint. Yes, the build quality is good, but the Fatar keybeds are a bit inconsistent in quality. The KL88MK2's keys are better than the MK1 because (I think) they added some kind of padding to stop the impact noise. Some of my keys have had an annoying rattle in them from day one, but it doesn't affect the quality of the response. After the warranty, I had a rotary encoder start to get jumpy, even though I kept the KL88 covered and clean, with very little hard use. I found that judicious use of Deoxit F5 helped a great deal, but I have to keep using it to keep it smooth. I'd like to know if the encoder can be replaced easily. My guess is that it's soldered to the main board. If you look at the Arturia forums, you may see the same comments mentioned.
> 
> I'd also like to mention that the pads have polyphonic aftertouch, something that the specs don't mention. The keys do not.
> 
> The Arturia included software is quite good, IMHO. The Piano V sounds can be greatly tamed by using the "hardness" control in the "Action" section.


Thew K 88 differs from the Keylab 88 MK 2. The Mk 2 has after touch " KeyLab 88 MkII features one of the finest hammer-action, piano-weighted, aftertouch-enabled keybeds ever made: the Fatar TP/100LR. " 
from Arturia's site


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## jononotbono

It’s one of the worst keyboard controllers I’ve ever tried. The action has some weird spongy thing going on with it and the action is super high. I think people like it because it’s White and has fake wood on the ends. The faders feel like shit. The mod and pitch wheels and are in a weird place. Yeah, not for me. I used one for over a year whilst living in New York. Funny how we all have our own tastes.


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## ZeroZero

pixelcrave said:


> Since you're familiar with Roland, I'm curious how the Keylab Fatar key's feels differ from Roland's. I have a Roland RD-88 (PHA-4 key actions), and I like it a lot for playing piano and anything between slow to moderately-fast stuff. But over time I realize that as a controller it may not be as versatile as I'd like it to be, especially for playing faster stuff (quick ostinatos) — it feels sluggish... sometimes I have to hook up my Arturia Minilab for its lighter/synth actions just so I can give my fingers a break.
> 
> Thoughts?


IMO Subjectively, My Roland 700NX has fantastic unbeatable action - PHA III Ivory Feel Keyboard with Escapement. It's the best I have ever played. I just cant seem to tear myself away from this keybaord because they nailed gthe action and the Concert Grand Sound. TBH at this point I still prefer it... but... its not a controller keyboard. I have played this keyboard so much there are indentations where my fingers hit.
I have tried to upgrade from this many times, I have had two Nords in my Studio - no thanks, I really dont like the keys, I also had a Roland 2000 in here but in went back as it was a downgrade in action (and build) from my 700NX.
The Arturia is new here, and I think it takes a time for the tiny muscles to get used to a new board. About a month or so. Someone used the word "sluggish" above, well I know what they mean, its a little less nimble, but this is a trivial percentage really, tis very playable and tweaking the sounds and velocity curves brings a sense of liveliness. There is a kind of "haptic illusion" (AKA optial illusion) with keyboards, which fools the brain. Velocity is NOT dynamics, its not how had you hit the keyboard, it's a measurement of the speed the key travels. Depending on how the numbers get crunched the same keybaord can be foggy and dull, or nimble and breezy. Its hard to extracate the actual physical instrument from software, when judging the action. However I do get the sense that this keybaord is a little firmer and less responsive than my Roland, I would put it on par with the RD 2000, about 5% less desirable, but still very useable.
Its not a noisy action. I can play it silently here against my Roland and its about the same. No more than nay piano bed.
Yes the criticisms of the pots are valid. They and the faders could be a bit better, but they are decent enough. What make me so keen is the fact that there is such an intuitive relationship with the DAW and VSTs and the keyboard is well laid out and feature rich. I dont know of anything better.
My Roland is now in my second slot in my studio, the Arturia is now in the primary slot, rfeady for daw work and used for practice.
I prefer modelled pianos. The V Pianos are not as good as gthe Roland super naturals, the Piano Teq sounds come closer. I have recently bought these and am still bedding in with the controls. I think the Paino Teq Steinways are more "real" in their tone, whereas the Concert Grand in the RD700NX is more "idealised" which suits me just fine. They are both very good. Bear in mind the Roland 700NX cost me £3500, the Arturia £750 and it is the Arturia which has more features and more flexibility and the action is very close.

Z


----------



## ZeroZero

jononotbono said:


> It’s one of the worst keyboard controllers I’ve ever tried. The action has some weird spongy thing going on with it and the action is super high. I think people like it because it’s White and has fake wood on the ends. The faders feel like shit. The mod and pitch wheels and are in a weird place. Yeah, not for me. I used one for over a year whilst living in New York. Funny how we all have our own tastes.


We can agree to disagree  . DId you play the 88 Mk 2, or a variant?


----------



## jononotbono

ZeroZero said:


> We can agree to disagree  . DId you play the 88 Mk 2, or a variant?


88 Mk 2


----------



## jononotbono

“Sluggish” 😂 Thats an understatement. But hey, we like what we like.


----------



## Simon Ravn

dcoscina said:


> The Keylab 88 II has the exact same Fatar keybed as the NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2. It feels slightly different due to the metal case Arturia uses as opposed to the Native Instruments which is housed in a plastic case. I find both slightly sluggish in their response.
> 
> I work in keyboard sales so I have lots of experience with both these boards.


Same keybed as the Studiologic SL88 Studio that is just 300 GBP too...

Do you have any recommendation for an 88 keyboard? I just got an Alesis Q88 and isn't too happy about that. I need something "non-sluggish". So if hammer, it shouldn't be too slow. And obviously something where velocity is pretty consistent across the keys from 0-127. Still considering the Juno DS88 actually.


----------



## jononotbono

Simon Ravn said:


> Same keybed as the Studiologic SL88 Studio that is 300 pounds too...
> 
> Do you have any recommendation for an 88 keyboard? I just got an Alesis Q88 and isn't too happy about that. I need something "non-sluggish". So if hammer, it shouldn't be too slow. And obviously something where velocity is pretty consistent across the keys from 0-127.


Do you play a lot of Piano?

I was hell bent on getting a decent 88 weighted but even after trying the infamous LMK4+ I’ve concluded I really just want a decent semi weighted 88note. Most of the time I’m writing music with samples that only occasionally use piano and trying to play marching snare rolls and fast String ostinatos on a weighted keyboard just makes no sense to me.


----------



## Simon Ravn

jononotbono said:


> Do you play a lot of Piano?
> 
> I was hell bent on getting a decent 88 weighted but even after trying the infamous LMK4+ I’ve concluded I really just want a decent semi weighted 88note. Most of the time I’m writing music with samples that only occasionally use piano and trying to play marching snare rolls and fast String ostinatos on a weighted keyboard just makes no sense to me.


No. Piano is not super important. Pretty fast action is more important. I do more orchestral stuff. I read that the DS88 has pretty quick action despite being "Ivory feel-G".


----------



## dcoscina

Simon Ravn said:


> Same keybed as the Studiologic SL88 Studio that is just 300 GBP too...
> 
> Do you have any recommendation for an 88 keyboard? I just got an Alesis Q88 and isn't too happy about that. I need something "non-sluggish". So if hammer, it shouldn't be too slow. And obviously something where velocity is pretty consistent across the keys from 0-127. Still considering the Juno DS88 actually.


I’m told by our Roland rep that all weighted Rolands are using the PHA-4 keybed now and they have replaced the Ivory G keybed s except on the RD2000 and FP90. I like PHA-4 keybed- it’s quiet and not sluggish- but still not as crisp as my PC3X. I had an A88mk2 last summer and loved the action. Now I’m still partial to my Kurzweil PC3X because it’s weighted but super light for orchestral writing. The PC4 has a nice keybed which is also found in the Kurzweil KM88 ($599USD).


----------



## jononotbono

Simon Ravn said:


> No. Piano is not super important. Pretty fast action is more important. I do more orchestral stuff. I read that the DS88 has pretty quick action despite being "Ivory feel-G".


Not tried the DS88 so can't say. I'm honestly considering getting a 61 Key controller. The NI Kontrol S61 probably. Yeah, sucks not to have the extra keys to actually play but I'm a bad player anyway and 61 is far enough for me to write with. Buying an Upright Piano to play an actual Piano and then a 61 key is probably what I'll next do. Depends where I'm living though!


----------



## dcoscina

jononotbono said:


> Not tried the DS88 so can't say. I'm honestly considering getting a 61 Key controller. The NI Kontrol S61 probably. Yeah, sucks not to have the extra keys to actually play but I'm a bad player anyway and 61 is far enough for me to write with. Buying an Upright Piano to play an actual Piano and then a 61 key is probably what I'll next do. Depends where I'm living though!


Aside from the range, I'm really not sure why so many people want a weighted action for orchestral writing. Unless they have really strong hands or a keyboard that responds to fast re-triggering (which means expensive keyboards), I don't find the piano keyboards particularly well suited to orchestral writing. Unless you do a lot of keyboard-styled orchestrating.. Most of my concert works come from a little MicroKorg 49 to be honest. But hey, that's just me. Different strokes...


----------



## jononotbono

dcoscina said:


> Aside from the range, I'm really not sure why so many people want a weighted action for orchestral writing. Unless they have really strong hands or a keyboard that responds to fast re-triggering (which means expensive keyboards), I don't find the piano keyboards particularly well suited to orchestral writing. Unless you do a lot of keyboard-styled orchestrating.. Most of my concert works come from a little MicroKorg 49 to be honest. But hey, that's just me. Different strokes...


I actually used a NI M32 controller for a lot of time whilst out in NY haha! I took this little 37 micro key controller in a bag just for something to play on and sure, it's a bit frustrating and limiting but I wrote quite a lot with that so yeah, I think the obsession with weighted 88 keys probably comes down to the fact it looks more impressive.

I mean, when you have 1 octave M Audio controller on a table under a screen, in between 2 shitty speakers, and with some foam on the walls of a bedroom, it might not gives first impressions that one desires 😂


----------



## dcoscina

jononotbono said:


> I actually used a NI M32 controller for a lot of time whilst out in NY haha! I took this little 37 micro key controller in a bag just for something to play on and sure, it's a bit frustrating and limiting but I wrote quite a lot with that so yeah, I think the obsession with weighted 88 keys probably comes down to the fact it looks more impressive.
> 
> I mean, when you have 1 octave M Audio controller on a table under a screen, in between 2 shitty speakers, and with some foam on the walls of a bedroom, it might not gives first impressions that one desires 😂


I totally get it. Studio aesthetics is very real! I don't post my studio because it's nothing to write home about. It's functional but that's about it. My Kurzweil PC3X still serves me well for most purposes. I used to change keyboards every 6 months until I found it. I'm scared when it gives up the ghost since I haven't found a better controller. Maybe the KM88 since I like the PC4 action (same Fatar keybed) but with no sounds. Who knows...


----------



## north3d

New Guy Here ... 

Looking for Controller Mapping "patches/files" between:
-Omnisphere- and -KeyLab MKII. (

ZeroZero's initial post got my attention ... we seem to have the same taste in controllers 
I agreed with everything in his post; having my KeyLab for a full week now ... 
The software that comes with it makes ya want to get the V Collection right away however.
Because there's only so many times you can live with a patch the 90% close to what you want 

Omnisphere and KeyLab on the surface seem like and ideal match ... but I'm not sure I have it in me to create the Controller Mapping ... when I think about it, it makes me want to play my guitar !!


----------



## ZeroZero

north3d said:


> New Guy Here ...
> 
> Looking for Controller Mapping "patches/files" between:
> -Omnisphere- and -KeyLab MKII. (
> 
> ZeroZero's initial post got my attention ... we seem to have the same taste in controllers
> I agreed with everything in his post; having my KeyLab for a full week now ...
> The software that comes with it makes ya want to get the V Collection right away however.
> Because there's only so many times you can live with a patch the 90% close to what you want
> 
> Omnisphere and KeyLab on the surface seem like and ideal match ... but I'm not sure I have it in me to create the Controller Mapping ... when I think about it, it makes me want to play my guitar !!


In regard to mapping for Omnisphere and other VSTs. I decided not to map at all, seeing as it's so easy to use MIDI learn on the fly in our set up. It's not the same as expression maps, you don't need semi coding. Just go to USER mode, make sure your sequencers track is set to monitor, the right click a knob and MIDI learn. Done.


----------



## ZeroZero

jononotbono said:


> I was hell bent on getting a decent 88 weighted but even after trying the infamous LMK4+ I’ve concluded I really just want a decent semi weighted 88note. Most of the time I’m writing music with samples that only occasionally use piano and trying to play marching snare rolls and fast String ostinatos on a weighted keyboard just makes no sense to me.


Well if you weant a decent semi weighted then this is a different animal. I play a lot of piano stuff ( which never gets recorded) and I realise that a weighted keyboard is not the best for orchestral work, I can do fast piano trills on little fingers and run rapid scales and arps but it took a lot of practice on my wieghted to get there. If your just focussed on orchestral I would say that semiweighted is much better. It's probably best for synths and Hammonds too.

Me, I wanted weighted. I can get speed out of the Mkii 88. Yes it's not the best, but it's certainly not the worst either. kit IS most certainly useable IMO. 

Z


----------



## Simon Ravn

dcoscina said:


> I’m told by our Roland rep that all weighted Rolands are using the PHA-4 keybed now and they have replaced the Ivory G keybed s except on the RD2000 and FP90. I like PHA-4 keybed- it’s quiet and not sluggish- but still not as crisp as my PC3X. I had an A88mk2 last summer and loved the action. Now I’m still partial to my Kurzweil PC3X because it’s weighted but super light for orchestral writing. The PC4 has a nice keybed which is also found in the Kurzweil KM88 ($599USD).


But the PHA-4 is weighted right? Now with all the stuff people write inhere I get worried that it won't make sense, since I don't have piano as first priority. As said by others, I need to be able to make drum rolls, fast staccatos etc... 

Any recommendations for a great semi weighted - you, or someone else?! I know this subject has been beaten to death but I really haven't found the Holy Grail here - if there is one.


----------



## Simon Ravn

ZeroZero said:


> Well if you weant a decent semi weighted then this is a different animal.


You have a suggestion here?


----------



## ProfoundSilence

i tried the keylab 88 and it was terrible so I returned it. 

what's different about the mk II?


----------



## jononotbono

ProfoundSilence said:


> i tried the keylab 88 and it was terrible so I returned it.
> 
> what's different about the mk II?


Nothing. It's still horrible.


----------



## jononotbono

Simon Ravn said:


> But the PHA-4 is weighted right? Now with all the stuff people write inhere I get worried that it won't make sense, since I don't have piano as first priority. As said by others, I need to be able to make drum rolls, fast staccatos etc...
> 
> Any recommendations for a great semi weighted - you, or someone else?! I know this subject has been beaten to death but I really haven't found the Holy Grail here - if there is one.


It doesn't exist. It's exactly why Mike Verta made a thread a couple of years ago saying he is going to design and build one. Unfortunately, I think 61 key is where you will find something that feels better.


----------



## Simon Ravn

jononotbono said:


> It doesn't exist. It's exactly why Mike Verta made a thread a couple of years ago saying he is going to design and build one. Unfortunately, I think 61 key is where you will find something that feels better.


What about this: https://www.thomann.de/gb/studiologic_numa_compact_2x.htm

Did you try that or know anything about its keys?


----------



## jononotbono

Simon Ravn said:


> What about this: https://www.thomann.de/gb/studiologic_numa_compact_2x.htm
> 
> Did you try that or know anything about its keys?


I haven't tried it so have no idea about the feel of the action. But the thing that interests me about this is how thin the controller is. Which means it would save a bit of space and fit nicely underneath a desk etc.

Anyway, sorry, I've derailed this thread enough so I wish ye all well on your quest!


----------



## dcoscina

Simon Ravn said:


> What about this: https://www.thomann.de/gb/studiologic_numa_compact_2x.htm
> 
> Did you try that or know anything about its keys?


They are actually good Simon. The store I work at has them (thanks to me actually bugging our purchasing manager to bring them in). They feel better than the M audio keystation 88s and keys aren’t annoyingly loud or clacky. The Numa with the drawbar sliders is ideal because they can be assigned to MIDI CCs. Very light to carry around should you need it.


----------



## ZeroZero

Simon Ravn said:


> You have a suggestion here


No, never tried it, I just dont do semi-wieghted, but he does: 

Some, one, may disagree  

And him


----------



## fourier

Bought my Keylab 88 MkII in November, so limited timeframe, but I'm super happy with the purchase. Analog Lab V + Pigments2 (for $69) was a massive plus, too. I have not encountered any negatives so far. I'm not a classical-trained pianist, so my limited abilites are pretty much a dead left hand (chords) and a fairly functional right hand for melody, but I've still always preferred weighted keys over semi-weighted. It's been super easy to use with Ableton for me. 

I lean heavily towards using Pianoteq over the V2, too, but I don't do professional piano players justice anyway - I just like how it sounds and feel to play better.


----------



## whinecellar

Re: the issue of weighted 88 key controllers that aren’t too sluggish:

About two years ago I had to have surgery on both hands for trigger finger… caused by 30+ years of banging on weighted actions. My benchmark was the Yamaha CP300, which feels sublime - but too heavy.

And I totally relate to the issue of needing to program fast parts: most weighted actions are too sluggish, and I have yet to find a “semi weighted” action that doesn’t feel like complete crap.

So, I set out to find something that would work for me. After a ton of auditions, I landed on a Korg D1. It is extremely bare-bones: no USB MIDI, pitch or mod wheels - but a high quality Japanese-made action (same as their GrandStage) that’s just about perfect for me. Heavy enough for legit piano work, yet fast enough for everything else. It’s also very low profile so it fits in a sliding tray I built into my desk.

Highly recommended if you have another controller available with wheels, pedal inputs, etc.


----------



## dcoscina

whinecellar said:


> Re: the issue of weighted 88 key controllers that aren’t too sluggish:
> 
> About two years ago I had to have surgery on both hands for trigger finger… caused by 30+ years of banging on weighted actions. My benchmark was the Yamaha CP300, which feels sublime - but too heavy.
> 
> And I totally relate to the issue of needing to program fast parts: most weighted actions are too sluggish, and I have yet to find a “semi weighted” action that doesn’t feel like complete crap.
> 
> So, I set out to find something that would work for me. After a ton of auditions, I landed on a Korg D1. It is extremely bare-bones: no USB MIDI, pitch or mod wheels - but a high quality Japanese-made action (same as their GrandStage) that’s just about perfect for me. Heavy enough for legit piano work, yet fast enough for everything else. It’s also very low profile so it fits in a sliding tray I built into my desk.
> 
> Highly recommended if you have another controller available with wheels, pedal inputs, etc.


The weighting is nice on the D1 but again it’s weighted fully. Not semi weighted. I think Simon is looking for semi weighted from the sound of it. Kurzweil used to make an awesome semi weighted action as found in the K2500.


----------



## IFM

So I have a KL88mkI and later bought the KL88mkII. Although I was fine with the keyboard (they do tend to break in over time) and the excellent build quality. However, the velocity curve was terrible and nothing like the MKI. Playing any sort of short note sequence into the DAW resulted in vastly varying velocity values. Artura replaced the keyboard for me and it had the exact same issue. I returned it and won't recommend it sadly.


----------



## SupremeFist

jononotbono said:


> I actually used a NI M32 controller for a lot of time whilst out in NY haha! I took this little 37 micro key controller in a bag just for something to play on and sure, it's a bit frustrating and limiting but I wrote quite a lot with that so yeah, I think the obsession with weighted 88 keys probably comes down to the fact it looks more impressive.
> 
> I mean, when you have 1 octave M Audio controller on a table under a screen, in between 2 shitty speakers, and with some foam on the walls of a bedroom, it might not gives first impressions that one desires 😂


The m32 is really a great little board: I have one in front of my Roland FP10 weighted 88 for the best of both worlds. I think maybe searching for the one keyboard to rule them all is asking for disappointing compromises. (I do do a lot of solo piano/piano-focused stuff though.)


----------



## whinecellar

dcoscina said:


> The weighting is nice on the D1 but again it’s weighted fully. Not semi weighted. I think Simon is looking for semi weighted from the sound of it. Kurzweil used to make an awesome semi weighted action as found in the K2500.


Yeah, it is a weighted action, but light and fast enough to just about qualify for what I would consider semi weighted. At the very least, it is eminently playable on faster parts, unlike most heavily weighted actions.

Frankly, I have yet to play anything labeled “semi-weighted” that wasn’t utter junk: M-Audio, Arturia, StudioLogic, etc. They’re either completely inconsistent with their velocity responses/curves, their key lengths are 1/2” shorter than standard, and/or their pivot points are completely jacked.

I’ve said it a thousand times and I know others feel the same way: if somebody made a decent 88 key, truly semi-weighted controller that actually felt good and played like a musical instrument, they’d clean up!


----------



## Simon Ravn

Interesting on the D1. A bit of a bummer with the lack of USB connection though.


----------



## whinecellar

Simon Ravn said:


> Interesting on the D1. A bit of a bummer with the lack of USB connection though.


Yep. And no pitch/mod wheels either. I really like it though on a slide out shelf; I have a little Arturia Micro Brute above it on my desk for wheels - not a bad compromise.


----------



## MikeRolls

I've had the 88 Mk II for about a year now, and is the first weighted keyboard I've properly used. I like it but what I really hate is the DAW integration, which may be the case for all controllers.
I'd naively expected it to instantly sync and I'd be able to use it to 1) control the highlighted Instrument/Effect and 2) set up global mappings. After much fannying about I've been able to do the second part, but not the first. In Logic you can set up the rotaries to control the Smart controls, which is better than nothing - but that's only 8 controllers. And the rotaries are pretty crap.
(I've also set up one fader which always controls the volume of the selected track, which is quite handy)
I'd be interested to know if anyone has had more success than me with this..


----------



## ZeroZero

MikeRolls said:


> I've had the 88 Mk II for about a year now, and is the first weighted keyboard I've properly used. I like it but what I really hate is the DAW integration, which may be the case for all controllers.
> I'd naively expected it to instantly sync and I'd be able to use it to 1) control the highlighted Instrument/Effect and 2) set up global mappings. After much fannying about I've been able to do the second part, but not the first. In Logic you can set up the rotaries to control the Smart controls, which is better than nothing - but that's only 8 controllers. And the rotaries are pretty crap.
> (I've also set up one fader which always controls the volume of the selected track, which is quite handy)
> I'd be interested to know if anyone has had more success than me with this..


I am not a logic user, but did you see this page? https://www.arturia.com/faq/keylabmkii/keylab-mkii-tips-tricks
Your right about controllers they're all a pain in the posterier I have used lots of them. 

I am not sure how any controller can control all instruments as they are all created differently. I decided not to try to code any, but simply to use right click and MIDI learn in user mode. Simple and quick


----------



## MikeRolls

ZeroZero said:


> I am not a logic user, but did you see this page? https://www.arturia.com/faq/keylabmkii/keylab-mkii-tips-tricks


I have indeed, cheers. I've also been speaking to Arturia tech support who have been helpful but I've had to accept the limitations.


----------



## Fenicks

I have a 61-key Arturia MK II and have been surprised how little I hear others talk about or recommend it. I LOVE it and it's improved my workflow immensely. The Midi Control Center is lightyears better than the Automap crap I had to use with my old Novation. It integrates well with Studio One 5 and the magnetic overlay for different DAWs and their commands is brilliant. I enjoy how stylish it is (mine is white) and it feels solid as a rock. Worth every penny I spent on it.


----------



## laoshuterry

SupremeFist said:


> The m32 is really a great little board: I have one in front of my Roland FP10 weighted 88 for the best of both worlds. I think maybe searching for the one keyboard to rule them all is asking for disappointing compromises. (I do do a lot of solo piano/piano-focused stuff though.)


Glad to see someone has same gears with me. I also have Roland FP10 for practicing piano and sometimes I connect it to PC as a weighted MIDI keyboard. The touch feeling is very good.

I also have used Arturia Minilab mk2 as my normal mini keyboard. The quality is solid and mapping software is also well. But the biggest problem is its velocity, keybeds, knobs and buttons, all of them can not play smoothly. And now I change it to NI Komplete M32. Feels right for me.


----------



## B4time

It is always a matter of personal preference. I have owned Kurz 2500SX and PC3X. Found action on both to very playable, very fast but still piano like. I recently owned to KKS88 and Arturia KL 88 MK2. They have the same tp100 keyboard which, to me, is incredibly sluggish, nearly unplayable for open viocings and fast playing. Last week I bit the bullet and got the StudioLogic 88 Grand w tp40wood keybed. Like night and day. Pretty similar to the tp40L in the Pc3X. Also thought the daw integration w Studio One was spotty and even the Analog Lab integration is a bit spotty. I already owned the Arturia V Collection 7 and the integration with the full instruments is practically useless. I bought the SL Mixface which sits nicely magnetically attached to the keyboard. Feels basicaaly like part of the SL Grand and lloks good - not overly busy and since I use a Machine Mikro 2 too, I don't need more pads. The Mixface software is a bit sketchy to set up but after a bit of trial and error it integrates very nicely w Studio One. Have not mastered the mapping of vsts but, cool as that would be, it is the daw integration that I really need and coukd niot accomplish w the PC3X.

At the end of the day, the keybed is really most important for me. I real8ze it isn't that way for everyone, but imho, the SL88 Grand TP40W is MUCH MUCH more piano like than the TP100. The addition of Mix face gives me everything I was looking for BUT, of course, the price tag is a bit higher by about $300 comp to KL 88 MK2


----------



## ZeroZero

I think therec is a lot of "haptic Illusion" going on in threads about keyboard action. I have had this keyboard a couple of weeks. First I used the Arturia piano, not impressed. The keyboard felt sluggish. I swapped to Pianoteq, still not impressed, but better. Tried Kescape, nah not my sound. Then Addictive keys. 
Throughout all of this I experimented with different velocity curves, these make a big difference. The same keyboard, can feel sprightly or like wet wellington boots, according to settings.
I just spent 9 hours playing teh arturia using TruePianos (I love this little known keys - and there is a free ffull demo) 
I can assure you that the Arturia did not feel in the least bit sluggish and I did a lot of runs figures and trills. I tweak the velocity to give it a slight bow, set the latency to 128 and its playing really well.


----------



## SupremeFist

ZeroZero said:


> I think therec is a lot of "haptic Illusion" going on in threads about keyboard action.


For sure, eg any keyboard will feel "heavy" if you are monitoring too quietly.


----------



## Ivan M.

ZeroZero said:


> they nailed gthe action


I have a stupid question: if they nailed it, why did they change it in the later models


----------



## B4time

@ZeroZero I am glad the action is working for you. But folks looking to buy should be aware that a sluggish action is a complaint that has dogged instruments w TP100 keybed. There is a kind of funny post on you tube by a guy who doesn't pretend to be a piano player who puts nickels on the keys of a tp100 and tp40w keybed. It takes more nickels to drop the key on the tp100. I don't think the issue is an ilusion. That does not mean it isn't a really nice keybed or that a lot of players won't love it especially once they tweak the velocity curves. But if one is asking which feels more piano-like, I personally don't think that is a contest. The TP40W is for me far more piano-like.


----------



## jaketanner

dcoscina said:


> The Keylab 88 II has the exact same Fatar keybed as the NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2. It feels slightly different due to the metal case Arturia uses as opposed to the Native Instruments which is housed in a plastic case. I find both slightly sluggish in their response.
> 
> I work in keyboard sales so I have lots of experience with both these boards.


Not to derail here, but what are your impressions on the Roland DS 88? I tried one a GC and felt excellent all around.


----------



## jaketanner

Simon Ravn said:


> Still considering the Juno DS88 actually.


Just asked about this...felt excellent to me when I tried it. Great price also.


----------



## dcoscina

jaketanner said:


> Just asked about this...felt excellent to me when I tried it. Great price also.


The DS88 I'm told is the same PHA4 but the one's I've tried still have the Ivory G keybed which is much nicer (IMO).


----------



## B4time

Roland has a number of different keybeds. They all seem to get pretty good reviews. I haven't played one recently though. I was going to give the A88 a try if the SL Grand didn't work out.


----------



## from_theashes

MikeRolls said:


> I've had the 88 Mk II for about a year now, and is the first weighted keyboard I've properly used. I like it but what I really hate is the DAW integration, which may be the case for all controllers.
> I'd naively expected it to instantly sync and I'd be able to use it to 1) control the highlighted Instrument/Effect and 2) set up global mappings. After much fannying about I've been able to do the second part, but not the first. In Logic you can set up the rotaries to control the Smart controls, which is better than nothing - but that's only 8 controllers. And the rotaries are pretty crap.
> (I've also set up one fader which always controls the volume of the selected track, which is quite handy)
> I'd be interested to know if anyone has had more success than me with this..


I use the Keylab 88 Essential with Logic and it’s definitely possible to control CC commands (faders, knobs and pads) for VSTs and the DAW commands simultaneously. You can assign the CCs via the Arturia Software or MIDI learn.
I really love that controller and I‘m glad I got it over a Komplete Kontrol.


----------



## John Longley

ZeroZero said:


> Like many, I have been on the quest for a satsfying controller/controller keyboard, for some time. I have had lots of gear through my studio, Korg Nanos, M Audiio gear, Necktars, Akais and more, but all have dissapointed. Nightmarish set ups and general flakiness, things just not happening when they should and as far as keboard controllers go, kebeds that play like toys. I spent more time on set up than I did no using these things, often things just would not work, after days of trying.
> I am a pianist. I have a wonderful old Roland 700NX, which has a fantastic piano action and a very decent concert grand sound. That's my Goto. If it was going to be replaced, it was because it is a stage piano and is very limited as a controller keyboard. This board cost me £3500 back in the day. I have tried to replace it with Nords and with its successor the RD 2000 but it did not work here.
> 
> I think I have just found its successor, and for £750 UK!
> 
> Before we even go into the (great) details of the keyboard, its worth mentioning the bundled software. First there is Analog Lab 5 - that's 6500 sounds rightv there - all instantly mapped to the keyboard. Then there is analog 4 too. You also get a full version of a VOx Continental, A full version of a Wurli, Piano V2 - 12 modelled pianos, and something called MIDI control centre an excellent on screen controller of your hardware. Click on a feature (fader, button etc) and assign). If you were to buy all this from Arturia, it would cost you more than the price of thev keyboard. Oh and there is Ableton Light, whatever that is  .
> 
> I set up with Cubase 11. To be honest I could not ffind the right instructions on the web, so I was fiddling around. However, once I found the correct instructions here:https://www.arturia.com/faq/keylabmkii/keylab-mkii-tips-tricks, it took about 5 minutes. DO follow to the letter and you should be fine. Its not quite plug and play as Arturia claims, but once you tweak Mackie Control it works great.
> 
> Let's talk about the build. First it has a metal chassis. It looks great in white and also comes in black. Overall the knonbs and faders get a solid 8/10 here. They are far better than say M AUdio or Korg Stuff, but not quite as good as my Roland, which would be happy after an elephant sat on it. I had one pot with a slight haptic crunch (ever so slight), I notified Arturia and have decided to live with it and see if it goes.The buttons are perfect, the 16 drum pads are velocity and after touch sensitive (I can't judge them as I am not a finger drummer) the nine faders are also very good quality and work smooth and quiet.
> 
> The back panel is impressive. Its hte best I have seen. Not only does it have expression and control inputs (also assignable), but no less than three extra aux pedal inputs, all assignable. If this is not enough for you it even has 4 special inputs for real analogue synths (which I do not understand). It has old skool MIDI and USB, it has a power input, but oyu do not need this if you are using USB.
> 
> The Keybed is a Fatar TP/100LR. This is hammer action and after touch sensitive. I am spoilt by my Roland and have very high stands here. I need a proper action and full expressitivity. COuld I use this as my GOTO. Yes!
> I did find that out of the box the V2 paino's did not work well with the keyboard. However, after some tweaking of teh velocity curves I got better results. I give the V pianos 8.5 / 10, but I think I will be using Pianoteq.
> 
> I really like the way Arturia has thought this all out. The keyboard is set up around three central buttons: "Analog Lab", "DAW" and "User".
> 
> The first button maps the keyboard to work seemlessly with Analog Lab. The sounds of these synths are top of the line. The best way to control these is in the software - MIDI COntrol Centre. This gives a picture of the keyboard and all the knobs are assignable within. Using Analogue labs 24 Analog synthesizers. Digital synthesizers. Acoustic pianos. Electric pianos, Organs, Strings and samplers are all set up for you with the knobs clearly labelled and modifiable. The only frustration I have found, is that the MIDI COntroller wont work with other instruments loaded, so you have to make your modifications in silence . Of course you can make changes in the hardware's VDU but this is tiny.
> 
> The second mode is DAW Mode. As expected, this is dedicated to your DAW. There are pre- programmed custom set ups for each DAW. Ableton is favoured (again what is this?) . All you do is long press the DAW button and scroll for your DAW - done.
> 
> For Cubase you get dedicated buttons for transport, undo, solo, mut, record, read, write. save, metronome punch in and punch out. The ninth fader is set up for Master Out and the other veight faders are set up for valume for a bank of the first eight tracks, you can jump or scroll to the next bank of 8 etc. The big knob is set up for scrub. The rotaries for Pan. Te buttons below the faders are used to select tracks (or the back and forward buttons) and *YOU? You needed to set up nothing but select Cubase with two clicks! All you did was long press the DAW button and scroll to select Cubase Mode.*
> 
> The final Mode is USER mode. This is similar to DAW mode, all the transport functions still work as in DAW mode, except the faders are now not dedicated to Volume, but are assingable using MIDI learn. So, for example if oon track one, one has Omnisphere and wat to control both the track volume and the Omni cut off, all one has to do is swithc to DAW mode to control track volume using fader 1, then to user mode and assign fader 1 to Cut off in Omni. It's a matter of a single click once set up and setting up is only three clicks. The pots (Pan in DAW mode) are also assignable in user mode.
> Switching between these three modes - Analog Labs, DAW and User is a single click
> 
> Summary.
> I am super impressed. This is easily the best controller I have used. My M Audio Oxygen 25, My BCF 2000, my Nano Kontrol Studio are all up for sale.
> Not only is this the best controller I have used, but it is also a fine FATAR piano keyboard. I load it with Pianoteq and I can play for hours. Aftertouch too? Drumpads with aftertouch? Nine faders?
> 
> £750, with£750 of free software?
> 
> I can be picky, motirised faders would be very good. The pots get 8/10 not 10/10. I would love to be able to use the MIDI control Center with a DAW running or a standalone instrument running.
> 
> But is there better? I doubt it. The Komplete Kontrol I suppose comes closest. It has a better VDU, but no faders or drum pads and only 2 pedal inputs (comapred to five).
> 
> 
> Anyway guys, you can see I like it. It's here to stay. I hope you enjoyed the review
> 
> Z


I owned one last year and I had a bad key in about a week. I’m willing to believe it was a fluke, but it spooked me and I got a cheap Hammer 88 until I find a better alternative. The functionality is superb and it feels good, it just scared me.


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## Carlster

Hi,
Sorry, but I don't share your enthusiasm at all.
I might start by saying that I am a composer and classically trained piano teacher with 35 years of piano playing experience. I've had several keyboards in my studio through the years, including the M-Audio Axiom series and they have all worked as expected.

Now, this all started back in 2018 when I got a KL88 Mk I. Had to send it back due to small but noticeable stains of paint across the aluminium panel as well as several keys being faulty (they had a "clacking" noise to them and sounded like they would break any moment).
The second one I got had one faulty key (A-1) which I could have lived with if it wasn't for the fact that the mod- and pitch bend wheels were crooked as in badly assembled at the factory. So I sent that one back as well. 
The third one had flawless keys, but would send out random MIDI messages when idle and the drum pads sent out all kinds of weird messages when pressed, regardless of what I would program them to do in the Arturia MCC. I raised a ticket with Arturia support who concluded that the motherboard was indeed faulty and offered me a repair although I decided not to go through with the repair process due to a project I was involved in at the time with a deadline coming up.

So, early this year I got the KL88 Mk2 Black Edition. Why you may wonder? Well, apart from my bad experience I believe that the design and included software is simply unmatched and I REALLY wanted to like these keyboards, despite the fact that the actual quality assurance leaves much to be desired.
Well, upon receiving my Mk II, I discovered one faulty key which would "clack" horribly (B0) plus that more than a handful keys would respond to the same velocity differently (i.e. some notes clearly sticking out from others) making the velocity inconsistent across the board so I sent it back. 
I then ordered a new copy from a different store in another country - and guess what, the same velocity inconsistency remains and this one has two keys that will "click" (B2 and C3) although the clicking noise will go away for a while if you press and hold them with force for a few seconds, telling me that there is some issue underneath with some part of the mechanism not having been glued correctly.

All in all, if you ask me, the Arturia range of Keylab 88 keyboards are bad quality-products that has received WAY more praise than what they deserve. Labeled ""Controller Supreme" and "Professional" all sounds nice, but it certainly doesn't live up to what it claims!
Before Arturia even thinks about releasing an 88 Mk III, they'd better get their sh*t together, get back to the drawing board and do some serious spring cleaning in their severely lacking quality control department, if there even is one?!

Stay away, just saying!


----------



## IFM

Carlster said:


> So, early this year I got the KL88 Mk2 Black Edition. Why you may wonder? Well, apart from my bad experience I believe that the design and included software is simply unmatched and I REALLY wanted to like these keyboards, despite the fact that the actual quality assurance leaves much to be desired.
> Well, upon receiving my Mk II, I discovered one faulty key which would "clack" horribly (B0) plus that more than a handful keys would respond to the same velocity differently (i.e. some notes clearly sticking out from others) making the velocity inconsistent across the board so I sent it back.
> I then ordered a new copy from a different store in another country - and guess what, the same velocity inconsistency remains and this one has two keys that will "click" (B2 and C3) although the clicking noise will go away for a while if you press and hold them with force for a few seconds, telling me that there is some issue underneath with some part of the mechanism not having been glued correctly.
> 
> 
> Stay away, just saying!


Very similar experience as mentioned early on somewhere in the thread. I went through two of them and the velocity is extremely inconsistent. The MkI which I still have is clunky but doesn't have the velocity issue. It had other issues like the paint wearing off easily (labeling paint) and one of the sliders going bad but I still keep it around.


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## dcoscina

I think if people are genuinely interested in superior keyboard feel, go with a digital piano and add a controller fader... digi pianos will always trump controllers in terms of build and feel, unless you are planning on spending a lot of money on a controller..


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## Carlster

dcoscina said:


> I think if people are genuinely interested in superior keyboard feel, go with a digital piano and add a controller fader... digi pianos will always trump controllers in terms of build and feel, unless you are planning on spending a lot of money on a controller..


Not really. I only expect a product I’m buying to work as advertised by the manufacturer, which it clearly doesn’t. That makes it a sh*tty product!


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## bill5

dcoscina said:


> I think if people are genuinely interested in superior keyboard feel, go with a digital piano


Many of us don't want a fully weighted keyboard; just a synth or semi-weighted that is built well without spending a ton. It seems to be a real hit or miss proposition.


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## dcoscina

bill5 said:


> Many of us don't want a fully weighted keyboard; just a synth or semi-weighted that is built well without spending a ton. It seems to be a real hit or miss proposition.


Sadly yes. I maintain the Keylab 49 or 61 have the best feeling non piano weighted action.


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## lastmessiah

bill5 said:


> Many of us don't want a fully weighted keyboard; just a synth or semi-weighted that is built well without spending a ton. It seems to be a real hit or miss proposition.


Korg Microkey. Better than any other traditional controller I’ve ever used.


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## Trentotto

I have tried the Mk II and liked its direct action. But I found an old Studiologic 990 XP and it was in excellent condition (except some hammer clicking which is to expect at this age) but I loved the keyboard action even better than the 88 mark II.

One thing I wonder is why Studiologic is so in the background. The Studiologic SL 88 Grand costs the same as the Arturia 88 II and has the higher end Fatar 40 keybed with wooden keys. I tried to test it but NO ONE here in Los Angeles carries it. I contacted the distribution company who does Studiologic for the US and they got back to me asking me what I wanted to test and when I said the 88 Grand I never heard from them again. 

I have this really old controller which I got for next to nothing as a first trial and I really like it and when the time comes Studiologic would be in consideration.

If only a music store would carry it. You can't buy a keyboard just like that from the web.


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## bill5

lastmessiah said:


> Korg Microkey. Better than any other traditional controller I’ve ever used.


With full-sized keys and at least the basic transport controls, I should have added. A weird omission for a MIDI controller. I have heard really good things about the action on these though


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## bill5

Trentotto said:


> If only a music store would carry it. You can't buy a keyboard just like that from the web.


As you found out, you often have little choice. It is frustrating. I wish there was a chain store which sold nothing but keyboards and had a ton of models out on display.


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## Trentotto

bill5 said:


> As you found out, you often have little choice. It is frustrating. I wish there was a chain store which sold nothing but keyboards and had a ton of models out on display.


It's more like you get the same choice in variations that don't matter. Countless "digital pianos"... with all the great software and sound creation, why buy a digital piano. I almost fell for this - as a newbie - and was already going for the Yamaha P-125, but didn't buy it because it was so horrendously ugly.

With all the software and sounds it's pointless to buy a digital piano. And there are only a few good controllers out there: Studiologic, Arturia, Komplete Kontrol, Roland (even though I personally don't like their new keyboard action)...

Such a store wouldn't have to stock that many models of controllers. But of course, if there is only a guitar center nearby... that's the desert to the thirsty.

In LA there is exactly one good music store for 10 million people: Sam Ash in Hollywood. But even they don't carry Studiologic.


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## bill5

Trentotto said:


> It's more like you get the same choice in variations that don't matter. Countless "digital pianos"... with all the great software and sound creation, why buy a digital piano.


Because it isn't just about the sound, but the keybed. 



> In LA there is exactly one good music store for 10 million people: Sam Ash in Hollywood.


You're kidding? That's just crazy. No Guitar Centers?


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## Trentotto

bill5 said:


> Because it isn't just about the sound, but the keybed.
> 
> 
> You're kidding? That's just crazy. No Guitar Centers?


Oh, lots of them. Which is why my focus was on "good music stores" Guitar centers only have the run-of-the-mill stuff. The large one in my area didn't have a single 88-key midi controller. 

Sam Ash has a much better selection, including Kawai's VPC-1. Just no Studiologic.


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## bill5

Ah got it - not so here. The only thing better about Sam Ash is it's bigger and so of course more things on display but offhand I don't recall a single controller out - but TONS of digital pianos. In fact, the much smaller Guitar Center probably had more synths and workstations out. In fairness, they probably figure why have a controller out, you can't hear anything and we're not going to dedicate a PC (and have to buy software etc) just so you can, but they should. This is why I think a shop specializing in keyboards would work; they could take that next step


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## Justin L. Franks

B4time said:


> But if one is asking which feels more piano-like, I personally don't think that is a contest. The TP40W is for me far more piano-like.


"More piano-like" is a difficult thing to quantify. What type of piano? What manufacturer? Is it brand-new, or has it been played for years? There is so much variation in the feel of real pianos that it is impossible to say whether one controller's keybed is "more piano-like" than another. All you can do is say which keybed feels more like what _you_ think a piano should feel.

There really is no best solution here because it is based on personal preferences. Ideally, there would be a modular controller sold without a keybed, which you could buy a separate keybed for that has some sort of mounting system for easy installation.

Also, it would be awesome if Fatar could make a "keybed testbed" that has one octave from each of their keybeds smashed together into something you could try out at your local music store. Then choose whichever you like best to install into your modular controller.

Unfortunately, the chances of either of these actually happening are pretty much nil.


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## Trentotto

bill5 said:


> Ah got it - not so here. The only thing better about Sam Ash is it's bigger and so of course more things on display but offhand I don't recall a single controller out - but TONS of digital pianos. In fact, the much smaller Guitar Center probably had more synths and workstations out. In fairness, they probably figure why have a controller out, you can't hear anything and we're not going to dedicate a PC (and have to buy software etc) just so you can, but they should. This is why I think a shop specializing in keyboards would work; they could take that next step


Sam Ash Hollywood had the Arturia Keylab 88 out and hooked to speakers. You could even test it with different speakers. The only reason I didn't buy it was that the Studiologic XP showed up and it had a wonderful keyboard. Sam Ash had all controllers hooked to speakers. Guitar center had not a single good controller, just cheap stuff.


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## Trentotto

Justin L. Franks said:


> "More piano-like" is a difficult thing to quantify. What type of piano? What manufacturer? Is it brand-new, or has it been played for years? There is so much variation in the feel of real pianos that it is impossible to say whether one controller's keybed is "more piano-like" than another. All you can do is say which keybed feels more like what _you_ think a piano should feel.
> 
> There really is no best solution here because it is based on personal preferences. Ideally, there would be a modular controller sold without a keybed, which you could buy a separate keybed for that has some sort of mounting system for easy installation.
> 
> Also, it would be awesome if Fatar could make a "keybed testbed" that has one octave from each of their keybeds smashed together into something you could try out at your local music store. Then choose whichever you like best to install into your modular controller.
> 
> Unfortunately, the chances of either of these actually happening are pretty much nil.


A modular controller would be great. The Keylab 88 with a Fatar 40 would be a nice combination. 

Pianos are so different. I read Chopin had a piano with an extremely light action.


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## philthevoid

I'm not sure about that whole "piano-like" debate.

Here's an analogy:
Piano = regular fuel car
MIDI controller = electric car

People want their electric car to feel familiar. Almost like they're driving a regular car. In this case yes, anybody's comparison will be dependent on their own taste, budget and driving experience.

In the case of the Fatar TP/100LR, it's more like somebody taped two motorcycles together and called it a car. It's got 4 wheels, sure. It can turn left and right, sure. But it just doesn't feel right.

It's not that it's not piano-like enough. It's that it feels off. Sure playing with the velocity curve can help but it's not gonna fix its inconsistent response. It doesn't give the physical feedback that most keyboard players need, to be able to play a passage _exactly_ the way they hear it in their head (and nail it every single time).

At least, that's been my impression of this Fatar keybed so far, and that's been echoed by a lot of people. It seems to be good enough for a lot of people too though. But it's certainly not "the best-feeling hammer-action keybed around" as it's being advertised.


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## StefVR

Had to sell my Arturia. It has no proper way to adjust velocity which made it impossible to play Synths on it for me that dont have a velocity editor (especially hardware syths) Just to warn everyone.


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## B4time

Trentotto said:


> I have tried the Mk II and liked its direct action. But I found an old Studiologic 990 XP and it was in excellent condition (except some hammer clicking which is to expect at this age) but I loved the keyboard action even better than the 88 mark II.
> 
> One thing I wonder is why Studiologic is so in the background. The Studiologic SL 88 Grand costs the same as the Arturia 88 II and has the higher end Fatar 40 keybed with wooden keys. I tried to test it but NO ONE here in Los Angeles carries it. I contacted the distribution company who does Studiologic for the US and they got back to me asking me what I wanted to test and when I said the 88 Grand I never heard from them again.
> 
> I have this really old controller which I got for next to nothing as a first trial and I really like it and when the time comes Studiologic would be in consideration.
> 
> If only a music store would carry it. You can't buy a keyboard just like that from the web.


Agree. Except that you CAN just buy boards on the web and try them out. It actually works better for me because I can trial a couple of boards in my home studio and really get a feeling for them. I ended up w SL 88 Grand after deciding the KL Pro just didn't do it for me. Cost 30 bux to return the KL. A nuisance, but worth the hassle.


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## Laurelien

I find it really frustrating. I had a Korg SV-1 88 and it had a good action (a bit noisy), Japanese I think, but my bug-bear with that was I play a bit high into the black keys and when I'd get into it, I'd accidentally hit the preset buttons which were set in at an angle, changing my sound to distressed organ, giving me a heart attack. I finally sold it and got the Arturia KL88 mkii, over Covid, so didn't go into a store either (fairly remote from any decent keyboard stores anyway). All the reviews seemed so good, and I'm using Ableton Live, so I thought it'd be okay. "It's a little heavy" some said, but I thought this would mean it felt more real, more like a proper, weighted key. Erm, no. It just feels thuddy and heavy, the key goes down and back up exactly the same way, I feel like this may be what is different - there's no finesse, and you can't do repeated notes easily.
I've not been very happy with it. I think someone on the thread here nailed it, that it just doesn't feel quite right. I'm classically trained and even though I want to do orchestral compositions, my main thing is piano. When I'm doing runs I hit the black keys weird (think this is the 'heavy' thing) with dud notes, things I could play before like Schubert. and now in my DAW super-sensitive on velocity, I thought maybe I had just been playing too hard on my Korg, but after reading the feedback here, it may just be this keybed. I'm feeling super disappointed, as I love the look of it. Wish I'd gone out to try one in person, but it's hours away. Or maybe ordered other keys at the same time. I really want to try Kawai vpc, esp as when I get a real piano one day it'll be a Kawai. If I sell this for a loss, the other half is going to be extremely annoyed. Ugh!! I don't know what to replace it with. I'm guessing Kawai VPC-1, studiologic grand, or maybe a roland/yamaha/korg, but there are so many models. Thoughts?


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## bill5

I think this is like playing slot machines. I'm close to just saying hell with it and getting one of the cheaper ones and accepting that I won't be too crazy about it. Maybe get a digital piano down the road for "serious" playing and hope it won't be too hard to get it recorded.


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## B4time

The KL Pro and Komplete S88 (mkii and, i think original S88) share the same studio logic tp100 keybed. As does the SL Studio. The Studio is half the price but does not have the extensive midi controller capabilities of the S88 or KL Pro. The KL88 interfaces nicely w Arturia Analog Lab vst - but, ironically, does does interface with the full versions of Arturias vsts. The Komplete interfaces nicely w all nks versions of NI vsts and many 3rd party vst (including Arturia). I have owned and sold or returned both of them. Here is the catch: the KL88 is a nightmare to program for use with anything other than Analog Lab (not even the V Collection) and the Komplete controllers are limited to page after page of 8 parametersapped to the tiniest knows imaginable. The color screen interface on the main is nice, but..
I went with the upgraded Sl 88 Grand which has a tp40w keybed that is, IMHO, FAR more realistic, reminiscent of my Kurz PC3X. I added the SL mixface controller which gives me generic midi control interface that has to be programmed for each vsti, so not super convenient and I really don't use it much for that but it is a great little multi track daw controller - and that has really improved my workflow..all in the Grand plus mixface is about 200 bux more the the S88, but the cost is well worth it for a keybed that actually feels like a piano.


----------



## sinkd

ZeroZero said:


> Like many, I have been on the quest for a satsfying controller/controller keyboard, for some time. I have had lots of gear through my studio, Korg Nanos, M Audiio gear, Necktars, Akais and more, but all have dissapointed. Nightmarish set ups and general flakiness, things just not happening when they should and as far as keboard controllers go, kebeds that play like toys. I spent more time on set up than I did no using these things, often things just would not work, after days of trying.
> I am a pianist. I have a wonderful old Roland 700NX, which has a fantastic piano action and a very decent concert grand sound. That's my Goto. If it was going to be replaced, it was because it is a stage piano and is very limited as a controller keyboard. This board cost me £3500 back in the day. I have tried to replace it with Nords and with its successor the RD 2000 but it did not work here.
> 
> I think I have just found its successor, and for £750 UK!
> 
> Before we even go into the (great) details of the keyboard, its worth mentioning the bundled software. First there is Analog Lab 5 - that's 6500 sounds rightv there - all instantly mapped to the keyboard. Then there is analog 4 too. You also get a full version of a VOx Continental, A full version of a Wurli, Piano V2 - 12 modelled pianos, and something called MIDI control centre an excellent on screen controller of your hardware. Click on a feature (fader, button etc) and assign). If you were to buy all this from Arturia, it would cost you more than the price of thev keyboard. Oh and there is Ableton Light, whatever that is  .
> 
> I set up with Cubase 11. To be honest I could not ffind the right instructions on the web, so I was fiddling around. However, once I found the correct instructions here:https://www.arturia.com/faq/keylabmkii/keylab-mkii-tips-tricks, it took about 5 minutes. DO follow to the letter and you should be fine. Its not quite plug and play as Arturia claims, but once you tweak Mackie Control it works great.
> 
> Let's talk about the build. First it has a metal chassis. It looks great in white and also comes in black. Overall the knonbs and faders get a solid 8/10 here. They are far better than say M AUdio or Korg Stuff, but not quite as good as my Roland, which would be happy after an elephant sat on it. I had one pot with a slight haptic crunch (ever so slight), I notified Arturia and have decided to live with it and see if it goes.The buttons are perfect, the 16 drum pads are velocity and after touch sensitive (I can't judge them as I am not a finger drummer) the nine faders are also very good quality and work smooth and quiet.
> 
> The back panel is impressive. Its hte best I have seen. Not only does it have expression and control inputs (also assignable), but no less than three extra aux pedal inputs, all assignable. If this is not enough for you it even has 4 special inputs for real analogue synths (which I do not understand). It has old skool MIDI and USB, it has a power input, but oyu do not need this if you are using USB.
> 
> The Keybed is a Fatar TP/100LR. This is hammer action and after touch sensitive. I am spoilt by my Roland and have very high stands here. I need a proper action and full expressitivity. COuld I use this as my GOTO. Yes!
> I did find that out of the box the V2 paino's did not work well with the keyboard. However, after some tweaking of teh velocity curves I got better results. I give the V pianos 8.5 / 10, but I think I will be using Pianoteq.
> 
> I really like the way Arturia has thought this all out. The keyboard is set up around three central buttons: "Analog Lab", "DAW" and "User".
> 
> The first button maps the keyboard to work seemlessly with Analog Lab. The sounds of these synths are top of the line. The best way to control these is in the software - MIDI COntrol Centre. This gives a picture of the keyboard and all the knobs are assignable within. Using Analogue labs 24 Analog synthesizers. Digital synthesizers. Acoustic pianos. Electric pianos, Organs, Strings and samplers are all set up for you with the knobs clearly labelled and modifiable. The only frustration I have found, is that the MIDI COntroller wont work with other instruments loaded, so you have to make your modifications in silence . Of course you can make changes in the hardware's VDU but this is tiny.
> 
> The second mode is DAW Mode. As expected, this is dedicated to your DAW. There are pre- programmed custom set ups for each DAW. Ableton is favoured (again what is this?) . All you do is long press the DAW button and scroll for your DAW - done.
> 
> For Cubase you get dedicated buttons for transport, undo, solo, mut, record, read, write. save, metronome punch in and punch out. The ninth fader is set up for Master Out and the other veight faders are set up for valume for a bank of the first eight tracks, you can jump or scroll to the next bank of 8 etc. The big knob is set up for scrub. The rotaries for Pan. Te buttons below the faders are used to select tracks (or the back and forward buttons) and *YOU? You needed to set up nothing but select Cubase with two clicks! All you did was long press the DAW button and scroll to select Cubase Mode.*
> 
> The final Mode is USER mode. This is similar to DAW mode, all the transport functions still work as in DAW mode, except the faders are now not dedicated to Volume, but are assingable using MIDI learn. So, for example if oon track one, one has Omnisphere and wat to control both the track volume and the Omni cut off, all one has to do is swithc to DAW mode to control track volume using fader 1, then to user mode and assign fader 1 to Cut off in Omni. It's a matter of a single click once set up and setting up is only three clicks. The pots (Pan in DAW mode) are also assignable in user mode.
> Switching between these three modes - Analog Labs, DAW and User is a single click
> 
> Summary.
> I am super impressed. This is easily the best controller I have used. My M Audio Oxygen 25, My BCF 2000, my Nano Kontrol Studio are all up for sale.
> Not only is this the best controller I have used, but it is also a fine FATAR piano keyboard. I load it with Pianoteq and I can play for hours. Aftertouch too? Drumpads with aftertouch? Nine faders?
> 
> £750, with£750 of free software?
> 
> I can be picky, motirised faders would be very good. The pots get 8/10 not 10/10. I would love to be able to use the MIDI control Center with a DAW running or a standalone instrument running.
> 
> But is there better? I doubt it. The Komplete Kontrol I suppose comes closest. It has a better VDU, but no faders or drum pads and only 2 pedal inputs (comapred to five).
> 
> 
> Anyway guys, you can see I like it. It's here to stay. I hope you enjoyed the review
> 
> Z


Bought mine about 4 weeks ago. I am totally thrilled.


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## IFM

So after all their denying guess what they fixed?

KeyLab MkII Firmware​V 1.3.0​New features​
Added a Global Velocity curve that can be used on all User memories
Added a Custom Velocity curve
Improved the Velocity resolution to avoid steps at high values
Bug fixes​
No more gaps in Velocity gaps at high values
No more glitch on the screen when turning the wheels or pressing pedals while holding Part1/Part2/Live buttons to assign a part in Analog Lab
No more transposing issues when pressing octave buttons while holding Part1/Part2/Live buttons in Analog Lab
Octave LEDs now correctly reflect the state of the transpose when rebooting the unit


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## bill5

Call me when they add an on/off button.


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## Niah2

Also got mine recently and so far I am very happy with it.


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## IFM

bill5 said:


> Call me when they add an on/off button.


It has a power switch in the back


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## cedricm

Simon Ravn said:


> Same keybed as the Studiologic SL88 Studio that is just 300 GBP too...
> 
> Do you have any recommendation for an 88 keyboard? I just got an Alesis Q88 and isn't too happy about that. I need something "non-sluggish". So if hammer, it shouldn't be too slow. And obviously something where velocity is pretty consistent across the keys from 0-127. Still considering the Juno DS88 actually.


I'm very happy with the StudioLogic SL-88 Studio. Frankly, it's a steal.
There's a free editor, SL Editor, where you can choose or create your own velocity curve, black keys vs white keys, and much, much more.


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## Paulogic

Is there a way to make "pickup" mode work correctly in Cubase with these keyboard?
I don't seem to get it working even when switched on in the Keyl software and in Cubase.
Or does this not work in VI's like BBC SO and others?


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## emid

I ended up buying Novation 61 SL MkIII due to it's broad midi functionality and for external synths. Got it for the price of 49 keys from a UK store. Have yet to unbox it but if I had not bought this keyboard I would have definitely gone for StudioLogic. I have Arturia Keystep 37 which is better than any keyboard in this key range.


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## bill5

Is this truly "semi-weighted"...i.e. I know it's billed that way, but that is a vague title and sometimes "semi-weighted" really feels like synth action and sometimes it feels fully weighted. Where does this fit on that scale-?


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## Laurelien

So my Arturia developed a lovely fault. Just sent it back to Scan for a replacement/refund. The G2 key developed a fault where the velocity spiked to max. Really disturbing when you're playing. Mostly you can't avoid G2 unless you play really high or low. Only had it 8 months. It onyl ahsa 12 month warranty. :OP After installing the newest firmware, I found teh general velocity curve (set to expressive) felt much better. Hoped it would fix my G2, but I think it's the sensor? I would also say the keys feel a bit better for wearing them in a bit than it did when I first got it. THe dampening foam was really stiff. I never really like that the keys don't seem to depress very far. I don't know what to replace it with though... :O( I don't really want another fatar keybed but they seem to be in everything. Need to get to a physical store and try some out.


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## IFM

Digging this one up as now that they allegedly fixed the velocity issue I’m trying it again and will report back.


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## MrHardi

whinecellar said:


> Yeah, it is a weighted action, but light and fast enough to just about qualify for what I would consider semi weighted. At the very least, it is eminently playable on faster parts, unlike most heavily weighted actions.
> 
> Frankly, I have yet to play anything labeled “semi-weighted” that wasn’t utter junk: M-Audio, Arturia, StudioLogic, etc. They’re either completely inconsistent with their velocity responses/curves, their key lengths are 1/2” shorter than standard, and/or their pivot points are completely jacked.
> 
> I’ve said it a thousand times and I know others feel the same way: if somebody made a decent 88 key, truly semi-weighted controller that actually felt good and played like a musical instrument, they’d clean up!


This is where I wonder if a keyboard like the Kurzweil PC4 could potentially be that midi controller people didn’t realize they needed. Bcos key action is said to be weighted but not so heavy, rather on the light side, hence good for both piano and synth work. With the added benefit of a great Synth engine and onboard sounds.


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## IFM

IFM said:


> Digging this one up as now that they allegedly fixed the velocity issue I’m trying it again and will report back.


I decided to keep it but will need to dial in the custom velocity settings. For now I have to adjust my playing to be more attentive to velocity as the S88II was way more forgiving. It is built much better than the S88


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## TonalDynamics

I might have noticed... if I didn't already own a KRONOS


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## jazzman7

Selfinflicted said:


> I hate it when sliders are on one side - middle makes a lot more sense. Anyone can reach the middle of you’re right or lefty. I use both hands on the faders depending on what I’m doing.
> 
> I have a KeyLab 88 mkI which i generally like but the faders And screen died. It lasted maybe a year or two. They should definitely last longer than that. I had a kurzweil k2500x hat lasted forever. Thinks just don’t
> Last anymore.


Yep. I'm still using my K2500X 30 years later... tho I would also like to find a board that's less bulky with some software integration bells and whistles


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## lecycliste

Any hammer-action keybed feeling less mushy than a Rhodes 73 works for me these days.

I just hammered an unmodified Rhodes 73 onstage for years to compete with guitarists' volume. (Replacing broken tines was something I did regularly.) I always had less amplifier power than I needed, since all I could afford 40+ years ago was a Dynaco Mk III tube amp I built from a kit (60W) and my own homemade 2-channel preamp. The Rhodes and a Farfisa Combo Compact were my keyboard setup in the late 1970s.

Would I prefer an action like my 1949 Steinway B? Yes. My Kurzweil PC3 LE8 feels pretty good, but it's no Steinway. And Arturia's Keylab 49 Mk II works well as a mobile setup with an iPad Pro for sounds. (I'm not picky about slider location - just happy to have multiple sliders and knobs in the first place, especially compared to the two-slider interface on a Yamaha DX-7. That instrument was the start of the trend towards minimal, almost unusable synth interfaces.) 

The keyboard on my Prophet V rev 3.3 feels good too for an unweighted keyboard. I used that and the DX-7 atop a Yamaha CP-70 Eletric Grand in the mid 1980s. The CP-70 sounded and played great, but was a pig to move. It's partly why I have back trouble today.

But my goal was always the best weighted, piano-like action in a lightweight keyboard. Still haven't found it.


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## HCMarkus

I know this is an old thread, but for everyone looking for the perfect keyboard the answer is...

TWO Keyboards. One 88 Weighted Hammer Action. One 61 Light/Semi-Weighted Synth Action. 

Two different instruments. 88 weighted hammer for Acoustic Piano, Rhodes and other parts where velocity control is of paramount importance. 61 synth for quick stuff, particularly where velocity is more forgiving. 

Just sayin'.

PS: For me, leave aftertouch off the 88 and make it creamy smooth on the 61.


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## proggermusic

That's been EXACTLY my approach for many years. Fully-weighted Yamaha digital piano on the bottom, 61-key synth-action board with pitch/mod on top. Love it. Covers all bases capably.

I am, however, going to upgrade the top board soon... I've been on an M-Audio Axiom Pro 61 for several years (a friend graciously gifted it to me when he was cleaning his closet out a few years ago) but I think its successor will be, indeed, the Arturia Keylab 61 MKII. Seems to tick all the boxes, and reasonably priced. I'm looking forward to it.


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## HCMarkus

proggermusic said:


> That's been EXACTLY my approach for many years. Fully-weighted Yamaha digital piano on the bottom, 61-key synth-action board with pitch/mod on top. Love it. Covers all bases capably.
> 
> I am, however, going to upgrade the top board soon... I've been on an M-Audio Axiom Pro 61 for several years (a friend graciously gifted it to me when he was cleaning his closet out a few years ago) but I think its successor will be, indeed, the Arturia Keylab 61 MKII. Seems to tick all the boxes, and reasonably priced. I'm looking forward to it.


You will then have something like my setup: Yamaha P255 and Keylab 61 mkII. Great combo!


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## wtptrs

Same here. Using a digital piano with hammer action with a Komplete Kontrol M32 on top for easy DAW control and portability. I'm also using a Komplete Kontrol A61 for synth action and an Akai MPD218 for pads.

Looking to upgrade the A61 to either the S61 or the Arturia Keylab MKII, in which case I could drop the MPD218 as well.


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## rfhan

Ditto, Yamaha P300 piano, built like a tank, with pitch and mod wheels!; Yamaha AN1X VA synth (aftertouch, wheels and ribbon and very sweet sounds).

90s beauties!


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## Nick Batzdorf

dcoscina said:


> Aside from the range, I'm really not sure why so many people want a weighted action for orchestral writing. Unless they have really strong hands or a keyboard that responds to fast re-triggering (which means expensive keyboards), I don't find the piano keyboards particularly well suited to orchestral writing. Unless you do a lot of keyboard-styled orchestrating.. Most of my concert works come from a little MicroKorg 49 to be honest. But hey, that's just me. Different strokes...


Old thread here, but my answer to why I want a weighted action keyboard for pretty much everything is that it's easier to control.


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## proggermusic

Just thought I'd do a wee update – my new KeyLab 61 showed up a couple days ago and so far I'm VERY happy with it. Extremely sturdy and solidly built, it really feels like a professional instrument – this is probably the first time I've felt that in a dedicated MIDI controller (not that I've had all that many). I can see where all these positive reviews come from! It's fun to use with just about any VI (except acoustic/electric piano, for which my fully-weighted Yamaha still gets all the love), but its integration with the Arturia instruments is... not unexpectedly... really great and makes them a fair bit more enjoyable to tweak. The pitch and mod wheels are particularly solid, for which I'm grateful, because those were the biggest reasons I wanted to replace my old top controller!


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