# Library composer vs. Game Composer



## eqcollector (Aug 27, 2016)

Hello guys!

Just having this question going in my mind lately, thinking to decide on the long therm for which goal to go and which path to take and to invest more energy/money in.
At this point, I'm working for various libraries, its not that bad job, always dynamic, interesting, crazy life (well, you know it!) and all in all, I like it. 
However, it constantly buggs me, I was always leaning more towards composing soundtracks and to be more in a 'one mood' for a month/few months and to get deep with composing in one atmosphere so basically quite contra with composing for libraries in the most cases.

Now, my question is, what are your experiences, what are the pros and cons of being game composer? 
Where is the bigger money flow and, in your opinion, which one is much better and more 'grateful' job to do?
Basically, your overall opinion on being game composer (or if both) your comparisson of those two!

Thank you so much in forward!

All the best,
eq


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## scottbuckley (Aug 27, 2016)

I've been out of the business for a while, but I'd say that closing any doors is probably a bad idea. Others might disagree though, and I do know from my time in LA that the library biz was really hectic and demanding, and it was always hard to break out of that routine. That said, I've always been a fan of income redundancy, and having a few options when one income stream is underperforming. I suppose it comes down to organising your life, your schedule etc. making decisions that have this outcome in mind. It's probably a lot of work to maintain, though .

I've never really done much in the way of game composing, but it always looked pretty fun - not sure of the rates though. I can comment on the library side of things - it can be fun for a while, and if you are landing some good placements it can be worth your time, too. But after a while I found it quite demoralising and repetitious, with little down-time, and that inevitably led to me leaving the industry altogether. That's my experience, but I wouldn't recommend an end game like mine :D.

-s


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## Daryl (Aug 28, 2016)

I have no experience of game composing, so can't help you with that. However, when it comes to libraries, there are so many different models to choose from (or be chosen for...!) that there is no "one size fits all".

For example some people write hundreds of tracks a year and make a good living. Some write 20 and still make a good living. Others write hundreds and make next to nothing.

In my experience it all comes down to the distribution in place and the niche you write in.


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## gtrwll (Aug 28, 2016)

This might interest you:

http://www.gamesoundcon.com/#!Game-Audio-Industry-Survey-2016/c19u6/57b0fd510cf2a28cd69dc4e7

I'm also interested in composing for games, but have so far sticked to writing for libraries (don't have the time to commit to writing a soundtrack for games yet). So while I don't have the experience, I've gathered that while there are audio people who only compose for games, getting a gig would be much easier if you do SFX, middleware implementation, testing, coding and what else as well. Someone more experienced could chime in if this is reality.


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## dannymc (Aug 28, 2016)

i read recently that some of the top games music composers can earn $250k for 90mins of music but not sure how true that is and its probably reserved to the A lister games composers such as Lorne Balfe. 

Danny


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## eqcollector (Aug 28, 2016)

Hello guys!

Thank you so much for your replies and for sharing your experiences, really appreciate it!
The reason why I'm thinking to expand my horizons is manly because of, as @scottbuckley said, a bit repetitive library music structure, especially if you want to earn any money (or if any good money, thing becomes even more repetitive with high production quality added on top that haha) and its not that I'm completey not satisfied with it, but just want to see how does a bit more artistic (or better to say with more freedom) world of composing for video games looks like and is it possible to live from it.

@gtrwll Seen the link and I think that this helped me a lot, thank you!
This was exactly what I was looking for! Of course, experiences would be more than welcome! 

@dannymc yeah, saw that too recently and not sure if to use this as some kind of guide or just exception of something that is preserved for the guys who had special life paths to get there. haha In another words, to be more realistic, I'm looking more towards $150k per year as some higher goal and then maybe those $250k occur somehow.

Thank you all once more!


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## Baron Greuner (Aug 29, 2016)

If you're finding what you're doing for libraries (I assume you're talking about RF libraries?) repetitive, then you're doing something wrong. That doesn't sound right.


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## Pietro (Aug 29, 2016)

I have been composing for games for something like 8 years now. The start was not easy, but the times were different. There wasn't so many indie developers, but there's tons more people who do it today.

Getting to a point of a reasonable income may take some time. I would say, 10k first year, maybe more if you are lucky. There are projects that pay more than a few thousand, but only top composers would get big money per project. Often that money includes recording budget.

Regarding artistic freedom, this also depends. You will get different structures than library music, but you still have to make the music work in the game, so it has to be structured certain way. So when it's battle music, it's 2-3 minutes of battle music, no bridges or calm moments. Needs to keep sounding consistent, yet continue to be interesting.

It's still fun, and seeing all of this work in the game is rewarding.

- Piotr


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## MoteMusic (Aug 29, 2016)

Pietro said:


> I have been composing for games for something like 8 years now. The start was not easy, but the times were different. There wasn't so many indie developers, but there's tons more people who do it today.
> 
> Getting to a point of a reasonable income may take some time. I would say, 10k first year, maybe more if you are lucky. There are projects that pay more than a few thousand, but only top composers would get big money per project. Often that money includes recording budget.
> 
> ...


10k first year? I would love to know how this is possible. I've been trying to move from films to games for a year or so at least, and finding a paid job is really no picnic. I'm still just trying to build my network even now.


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## Replicant (Aug 29, 2016)

Pietro said:


> I have been composing for games for something like 8 years now. The start was not easy, but the times were different. There wasn't so many indie developers, but there's tons more people who do it today.
> 
> Getting to a point of a reasonable income may take some time. I would say, 10k first year, maybe more if you are lucky. There are projects that pay more than a few thousand, but only top composers would get big money per project. Often that money includes recording budget.
> 
> ...



Most first year game composers would be lucky to make _anything _unless they just started in AAA or the "pro" level of "indie"


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## Pietro (Aug 29, 2016)

I started free or low paid too, but with a bit of luck and faith from people who you will work with, you could make a good start. As long as you are good and have luck for successful projects. You'd need that luck cause most of those projects is already taken :/.

There's always demand for sound designers, though . And some good composers made their break in this way.

- Piotr


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## scottbuckley (Aug 29, 2016)

Is it worth learning a bit of game audio programming, too? I know that plenty of games utilise a dynamic system which allows the music to shift according to the scenario - although I suppose this isn't part of the composer's role. 

I know most dynamic systems are as simple as jumping from 'explore' music to 'battle' music, and then back to 'explore' after the action - but there's probably plenty of room for a composer to exploit the system to make a score which is highly engaging and scalable. Might make you more employable, too? Dunno...

-s


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## Replicant (Aug 29, 2016)

Fmod and Wwise are commonly used middleware engines and they're pretty easy to learn. I think this is going to become an expectation in the future.


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## scottbuckley (Aug 29, 2016)

Replicant said:


> Fmod and Wwise are commonly used middleware engines and they're pretty easy to learn. I think this is going to become an expectation in the future.


Cool! Good to know.


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## MoteMusic (Aug 31, 2016)

Replicant said:


> Fmod and Wwise are commonly used middleware engines and they're pretty easy to learn. I think this is going to become an expectation in the future.


From many of my conversations so far, it really seems to be an expectation already. Lower level indies will also really appreciate you being able to pick up both composing and sound-design duties. It makes their lives a lot easier!


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## Replicant (Aug 31, 2016)

MoteMusic said:


> From many of my conversations so far, it really seems to be an expectation already. Lower level indies will also really appreciate you being able to pick up both composing and sound-design duties. It makes their lives a lot easier!



You know, and I don't mean to sound so cynical or entitled, but this is actually something I'm not exactly thrilled about in regards to the current state of the industry - at least in regards to lower level indies. I'm here to provide a service and do the best job I can, not make your life easier by taking on responsibilities distantly related to the craft I am offering as a service to you. People who aren't in-the-know about what really goes into composition and the expense of owning virtual instruments and equipment as well as the investment of time into improving composing and mixing your own music tend to view computers for music as these magical devices that allow you to do _anything _involving sound at a pro level. These are separate, but related disciplines that take years to get good at and a lifetime to master.

I even had one indie dev go from being real friendly to taking this tone of like I was some sort of failure because I said "No, I don't do that." when asked if I could also voice-act _and_ do sound design. Like, I said and advertise that I am a composer who can help you integrate dynamic music in the orchestral, hybrid, ethnic and rock genres. Why did you assume I should be able to give you voice-overs, cutting-edge sound design _and _every genre under the sun? Why did you assume it would be cheap or even free?

There is certainly nothing wrong with being able to wear multiple hats and diversifying your skills, but I do wish fewer indies saw composers as this one-stop-shop for every audio need possible because it's just not a reasonable expectation or even feasible for many. I don't assume every concept artist is also an equally good animator, sculptor and CG artist.

/rant


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## scottbuckley (Aug 31, 2016)

Replicant said:


> You know, and I don't mean to sound so cynical or entitled, but this is actually something I'm not exactly thrilled about in regards to the current state of the industry - at least in regards to lower level indies. I'm here to provide a service and do the best job I can, not make your life easier by taking on responsibilities distantly related to the craft I am offering as a service to you. People who aren't in-the-know about what really goes into composition and the expense of owning virtual instruments and equipment as well as the investment of time into improving composing and mixing your own music tend to view computers for music as these magical devices that allow you to do _anything _involving sound at a pro level. These are separate, but related disciplines that take years to get good at and a lifetime to master.
> 
> I even had one indie dev go from being real friendly to taking this tone of like I was some sort of failure because I said "No, I don't do that." when asked if I could also voice-act _and_ do sound design. Like, I said and advertise that I am a composer who can help you integrate dynamic music in the orchestral, hybrid, ethnic and rock genres. Why did you assume I should be able to give you voice-overs, cutting-edge sound design _and _every genre under the sun? Why did you assume it would be cheap or even free?
> 
> ...


I've had similar experiences in the past. Music was my thing, but any sound design/voice acting made me feel like I had no clue what I was doing. It was beyond my normal capabilities - sure, it was a little fun trying something new and learning new skills, but to deliver something of a professional quality was rather stressful!

-s


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