# DAW other than Studio One that bounces midi track and keep data?



## Hunter123 (Dec 21, 2017)

I know in Studio One you can fully bounce an instrument track and keep the midi data so you can bounce back and change any midi if need be. Does any other DAW do this?


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## dzilizzi (Dec 21, 2017)

You mean like bounce an instrument track to audio? ProTools does that. The instrument/midi track is untouched but you now have an audio track also. Good for when your CPU can't handle anymore instruments. I think Cubase also does it.


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## Hunter123 (Dec 21, 2017)

I'm on limited RAM so being able to bounce an instrument track to audio to get memory back but still being able to bounce back to the instrument track (with Kontakt or whatever) if I need to change the midi part is why I'm asking. Studio One does this all (without adding a new track or anything) so it's a bit different than just freezing a track. So protools and Cubase do this too? Do they actually completly get rid of the kontakt and get the memory back while still being able to revert back at anytime? It's more the memory rather than the cpu that I'm concerned about.


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## maestro2be (Dec 21, 2017)

No, they don't do it like Studio One does. No other DAW does.


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## Hunter123 (Dec 21, 2017)

maestro2be said:


> No, they don't do it like Studio One does. No other DAW does.


Ahhh, so I made the right choice. It's really helpful when ya got no ram.


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## maestro2be (Dec 21, 2017)

So just to be clear. There are other DAWs that can do "similar" things. Where it will bounce the track to an audio file and then release the resources of the Midi channel. What I am saying is that no one does it as good or like Studio One does. However, Cubase, Logic and many others can do their own version of this process.


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## jules (Dec 21, 2017)

Samplitude does it for ages, and with its object editor it's a pleasure to use (better than studio one)


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## maestro2be (Dec 21, 2017)

Another thing to add is that you did very well in my opinion choosing Studio One. It's my DAW of choice and I have Cubase, Logic, Samplitude and have had a few others.

Studio One is so simple to use and the workflow is number 1. You will find that every DAW is missing something you wish you had. Learn to live with it, it's going to happen. Stick with one and become a master of everything it does and then find workarounds for the few things it doesn't have. Studio One gives you the ability to write macro's to fill in for many missing things. Additionally it's probably near the top of the most developed DAW right now since it has so much potential and things still missing from it. I feel they do well listening to us and giving us what we need. I remember I worked with support years ago because MIDI was missing a feature I wanted "Legato quantizing". I was amazed that they let me tell them my ideas including put %'s as an option and viola, the next major release literally had my entire idea done in their unique way. That's great service in my eyes. I am sure many of the other features we have today happened from similar stories so don't be afraid to go to the forums and upvote all the ideas that myself and many others create for future releases.

There are other options such as Reaper which is amazing as well, but you have to be much more of a power user to effectively get out of it what you will want. But if you're a tweaker and especially extremely literate in the ways of computer programming, customizing etc. you can just about do anything with it. Reaper can handle more channels directly into a plugin I believe than the other DAWs which is something I am jealous of. I almost moved to it just for this feature. SPAT is a loved plugin of mine and it's very limiting only being able to access it as a stereo plugin when it's capable of so many channels in one instance. But back to Studio One I went and learned to live with this limitation .

At this point I settled for Studio One years ago and the only other nagging issue for me is completely silly and useless to many other people, and that's the color palette. 2018 is knocking on the door and we are still using Atari level colors in my opinion (that's just my opinion). It has no bearing on the application usage and since they have really done well on fixing CPU spike issues on this version things are great. However, they really need to work on the color palette for all areas of that GUI.

I left Logic because I almost lost my hearing many times due to the old white noise blast that Apple could never resolve even giving me all new MAC machines and free upgrades to all of the latest versions of OS X and Logic. I finally just had to leave when I put a set of headphones on and ended up full force punching myself in the face ripping them off my head. I also learned at that time about the importance of putting a limiter in your chain to protect against that. I have since moved to PC and never went back and have had so fewer problems with my machines and performance it's crazy.

Cubase I have just never been able to get over how hard the workflow is. Yes, you can setup templates etc. The problem is it's just so full of stuff I don't use and it's so busy I feel completely overwhelmed in it. I am jealous of the Color Palette that Cubase and Logic has today  but other than that it just feels heavy and clunky to me. Every time I think of an idea, I feel like I have to do extensive searching and investigation just to get anything accomplished. I never feel this way in Studio One.

There is lots of training on Youtube and here is a link to a very helpful Studio One user who has made an enormous amount of video tutorials that are free.

http://www.homestudiotrainer.com/

There's my ling winded response for you while waiting on my new sample libraries to unpack which have now finished . Enjoy Studio One it rocks!


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## Sami (Dec 21, 2017)

maestro2be said:


> Another thing to add is that you did very well in my opinion choosing Studio One. It's my DAW of choice and I have Cubase, Logic, Samplitude and have had a few others.
> 
> Studio One is so simple to use and the workflow is number 1. You will find that every DAW is missing something you wish you had. Learn to live with it, it's going to happen. Stick with one and become a master of everything it does and then find workarounds for the few things it doesn't have. Studio One gives you the ability to write macro's to fill in for many missing things. Additionally it's probably near the top of the most developed DAW right now since it has so much potential and things still missing from it. I feel they do well listening to us and giving us what we need. I remember I worked with support years ago because MIDI was missing a feature I wanted "Legato quantizing". I was amazed that they let me tell them my ideas including put %'s as an option and viola, the next major release literally had my entire idea done in their unique way. That's great service in my eyes. I am sure many of the other features we have today happened from similar stories so don't be afraid to go to the forums and upvote all the ideas that myself and many others create for future releases.
> 
> ...



I'm waiting to see when they will implement native articulation management, compatible with Notion. That day is the day I switch.


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## bjderganc (Dec 21, 2017)

Like this?

(Reaper: right click midi item: "Apply track/take FX to items as new take")

There should be a way to reclaim memory automatically, but it wouldn't be terrible to just save the VST chain and then delete it.


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## puremusic (Dec 22, 2017)

Personally I even like the color palette. :D


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## EvilDragon (Dec 23, 2017)

maestro2be said:


> No, they don't do it like Studio One does. No other DAW does.



Wrong, Reaper does, simply by freezing the track (also saves RAM). How's that different from what S1 does?



Hunter123 said:


> So protools and Cubase do this too? Do they actually completly get rid of the kontakt and get the memory back while still being able to revert back at anytime?



Yees, that is *exactly *what Reaper does, too. It's no big deal.

Actually, Reaper goes even above that, since it offers multi-level freeze. So you can freeze your MIDI with VIs, then add effects, then freeze again, then add effects, then freeze again... and can also revert all the way back to the original MIDI. Not sure if any other DAW does *THAT *(without creating additional tracks)!


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## zvenx (Dec 23, 2017)

What studio one does and I know cubase currently doesn't, not sure about reaper, is also the opposite.. Unfreeze converts it back to midi in an instrument track.
Rsp


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## EvilDragon (Dec 23, 2017)

Exactly the same in Reaper.








Simples! Can be from menu, can be a toolbar button, can be key command, as per usual Reaper's facilities.


I don't see how this is any different from what S1 does. Looks exactly the same to me. So much about "no other DAW doing it like that".


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## zvenx (Dec 23, 2017)

nice........if only Reaper wasn't so butt fugly and (yes I have seen lots of its skins) and so unconventional to my workflow....... 
rsp


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## EvilDragon (Dec 23, 2017)

Eye, beholder, etc. Also, in Reaper you create your own workflow, if you want you can make it (mostly) work like (mostly) any other DAW... But sure, if you're tied heavily to Cubase's workflow, that's fine too.


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## macmac (Dec 23, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Actually, Reaper goes even above that, since it offers multi-level freeze. So you can freeze your MIDI with VIs, then add effects, then freeze again, then add effects, then freeze again... and can also revert all the way back to the original MIDI. Not sure if any other DAW does *THAT *(without creating additional tracks)!



In Studio One, once the MIDI track is converted to audio, you can treat it totally as regular audio so you can chop it up, move it, shorten a clip, add effects, do whatever... and you don't have to keep freezing / unfreezing it to make additions or changes. If you need to go back to the MIDI, you just hit the command to convert back to a MIDI track, and all your changes will be there. In other words, the alterations you had made in the audio (i.e. moving it, duplicating it, etc.) will be reflected in the MIDI now. So it's not like reverting or going backwards. It allows you to keep moving forward but still be able to do things to the MIDI also without losing what you did when it was the audio.

I don't know if REAPER does it that way, although it is certainly a very capable DAW.

And you can go back in the history to where you started from if need be.


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## zvenx (Dec 23, 2017)

EvilDragon said:


> Eye, beholder, etc. Also, in Reaper you create your own workflow, if you want you can make it (mostly) work like (mostly) any other DAW... But sure, if you're tied heavily to Cubase's workflow, that's fine too.


I know I know, in part I was teasing you cause I know you love Reaper......But yeah how I like to test every gear is install and try to figure out stuff without reading the manual..... if it comes natural to me, it stays past test one....if it doesn't I delete it..... reaper maybe 3 years ago was deleted. Haven't tried it since, but yeah that freeze unfreeze feature is killer. Hopefully it will make Cubase 10.
rsp


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## EvilDragon (Dec 23, 2017)

macmac said:


> If you need to go back to the MIDI, you just hit the command to convert back to a MIDI track, and all your changes will be there. In other words, the alterations you had made in the audio (i.e. moving it, duplicating it, etc.) will be reflected in the MIDI now.



THIS part is what Reaper doesn't yet have, but this is a consequence of S1 having ARA and integrated Melodyne (I'm assuming doing audio to MIDI conversion, because there's no other way you can do that sort of stuff AFTER audio is edited to hell and back). Reaper is going to have ARA2, though, it's been stated by one of the devs, so that same thing will be possible. (Yes, Celemony is working on ARA2.)


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## macmac (Dec 23, 2017)

That will be really great in Reaper. It's really nice not to lose your [audio] edits if you need to add new MIDI, like a new phrase or something. It's a very seamless way to work. Love the ability to keep working on the audio once it's frozen (which couldn't be done when I used Logic. It was truly frozen, but maybe that has changed as I haven't opened Logic for a while even though I've done the updates.)

S1 does do the MIDI>Audio>MIDI freezes (what S1 calls 'Transform') on the same track, as does Reaper.


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## Brian2112 (Dec 23, 2017)

When the S1 freeze thing really gets sick is when you have tracks in the scratch pad. 
I've been hoarding d.a.w. Software at the moment because I would rather invest a little money in the software instead of a lot of time on something that doesn't fit quit right. Doable thanks to very generous discounts offered for Sonar refugees.



zvenx said:


> I know I know, in part I was teasing you cause I know you love Reaper......But yeah how I like to test every gear is install and try to figure out stuff without reading the manual..... if it comes natural to me, it stays past test one....if it doesn't I delete it..... reaper maybe 3 years ago was deleted. Haven't tried it since, but yeah that freeze unfreeze feature is killer.



Tried Reaper, I'm sure I'll like it more the more I get into it (I like to tinker with stuff). Didn't really have any problems with that test.
I totally failed the Digital Performer test last night, but mostly because I'm an idiot.

Edit forgot: I THINK you can freeze/unfreeze individual clips on a track similar to Cubase render in place but keeps it on the same track. Could be wrong though. Downside of trying all the daw software I can find- confusion.


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 23, 2017)

zvenx said:


> What studio one does and *I know cubase currently doesn't*, not sure about reaper, is also the opposite.. Unfreeze converts it back to midi in an instrument track.
> Rsp



Really.....?

https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_a...t_instruments/vst_instruments_freezing_t.html


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## Hunter123 (Dec 23, 2017)

mikeybabes said:


> Really.....?
> 
> https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_a...t_instruments/vst_instruments_freezing_t.html


Does that give you back your ram?


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 23, 2017)

Yes - you get a number of choices when you freeze a track. One of those options is 'Unload Instrument When Frozen'.

https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_a...ruments/vst_instruments_freeze_options_r.html


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## Brian2112 (Dec 23, 2017)

Almost any daw will let you freeze/unfreeze tracks. Ironically, I believe Sonar was one of, if not the first. They almost all allow you the option to unload the instrument and any effects through any chain when frozen saving CPU and RAM.
The only difference in S1 is how it is done. Depending on your workflow, it's just a bit easier and keeps things less cluttered. The main thing I notice is that it seems to me that you can do a lot more with frozen tracks in S1.

Edit: fixed unforgivable spelling error.


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## Hunter123 (Dec 23, 2017)

Brian2112 said:


> Almost any daw will let you freeze/unfreeze tracks. Ironically, I believe Sonar was one of, if not the first. They almost all allow you the option to unload the instrument and any effects through any chain when frozen saving CPU and RAM.
> The only difference in S1 is how it is done. Depending on your workflow, it's just a bit easier and keeps things less cluttered. The main thing I notice is that it seems to me that you can do a lot more with frozen tracks in S1.
> 
> Edit: fixed unforgivable spelling error.


I'm coming from Ableton Live in which it seems you can't unload an instrument without it being permanent (unless the upcoming Live 10 offers this?). Studio One has a lot more midi options that Ableton doesn't so I've decided to switch; however, I love using Ableton for more beat based music. Not so much for orchestral templates.


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## dathyr1 (Dec 23, 2017)

Hunter123 said:


> I'm coming from Ableton Live in which it seems you can't unload an instrument without it being permanent (unless the upcoming Live 10 offers this?). Studio One has a lot more midi options that Ableton doesn't so I've decided to switch; however, I love using Ableton for more beat based music. Not so much for orchestral templates.



Hunter123 Just wanted to say I am a Studio one Pro user and just got Ableton Live 9 for the free update to 10. I do mainly pop music and getting my feet wet and into beat music while learning Ableton and Push2. Sorry for a little off topic,nice to see another ableton user. take care and happy holidays, Dave


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## EvilDragon (Dec 24, 2017)

macmac said:


> That will be really great in Reaper. It's really nice not to lose your [audio] edits if you need to add new MIDI, like a new phrase or something. It's a very seamless way to work. Love the ability to keep working on the audio once it's frozen



Agreed!

You _can_ continue editing the frozen file in Reaper (splits, stretching, etc.) but yeah, those edits would get discarded when unfreezing the track. Perhaps not after ARA2 gets introduced


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## Hunter123 (Jan 14, 2018)

Logic users-if you bounce your kontakt instance to audio, can you bounce back to midi when you need it?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 16, 2018)

Hunter123 said:


> Logic users-if you bounce your kontakt instance to audio, can you bounce back to midi when you need it?



You can just bounce to a new track, keeping the original intact.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 16, 2018)

Hunter123 said:


> Logic users-if you bounce your kontakt instance to audio, can you bounce back to midi when you need it?



Yes.


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## Hunter123 (Jan 16, 2018)

Ashermusic said:


> Yes.



I mean, does it eliminate the kontakt instance while getting your RAM back (I'm on a low RAM machine), but you can still revert back to the kontakt instance at any time if you need to add or change to your instrument track? This is what Studio One does and presumably other daws do as well.


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## Ashermusic (Jan 16, 2018)

Hunter123 said:


> I mean, does it eliminate the kontakt instance while getting your RAM back (I'm on a low RAM machine), but you can still revert back to the kontakt instance at any time if you need to add or change to your instrument track? This is what Studio One does and presumably other daws do as well.


. No. It is your choice to either eliminate the Kontakt instance or preserve but mute it, which does not give the RAM back.


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## Sami (Jan 16, 2018)

Logic: Freeze frees up CPU, not RAM. Bounce and Delete obviously frees up both 
Other way in Logic: Host in VEPro, turn off the instance, frees up both CPU and RAM
Cubase: Freeze frees up CPU and RAM


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## zvenx (Sep 13, 2018)

mikeybabes said:


> Really.....?
> 
> https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_a...t_instruments/vst_instruments_freezing_t.html



sorry now seeing this, yes you can unfreeze but what Studio One Pro does is different. For instance once you freeze audio in Cubendo you can't move it or chop it up etc...you can in Studio One Pro and Reaper for instance.
rsp


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## pderbidge (Sep 13, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Agreed!
> 
> You _can_ continue editing the frozen file in Reaper (splits, stretching, etc.) but yeah, those edits would get discarded when unfreezing the track. Perhaps not after ARA2 gets introduced


I was just hoping for this very feature on my most recent project. That's cool that S1 Pro can do that. Not a deal breaker for me though given all the other things I love about Reaper. Looking forward to see if Reaper gets this feature in the future.


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