# Converting emotions into music



## southnorth (Feb 6, 2011)

So, as some of you may know, I'm relatively new to the specific art and craft of adding music to picture. I have much experience with music though.

I have three questions for you guys:

- Are there any rules or guide available (more rules of thumb) on what kinds of instruments and instrument combinations to use when expressing certain feelings and emotions?

- The same quesion as above applied to specific scenes. What works where?

- Where to apply music and where not to? For instance, music during a dialogue is not necessarily a good idea.

And please, don't say 'it depends'. I most certainly know that. I'm looking for general knowledge, things that are known to work great, tips on how to address these questions when scoring, etc.


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## lee (Feb 6, 2011)

Music, Emotion and the Brain - Geetanjali Vaidya
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro04/web2/gvaidya.html (http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/n ... aidya.html)

"For example, according to one study, major keys and rapid tempos cause happiness, whereas minor keys and slow tempos cause sadness, and rapid tempos together with dissonance cause fear. There is also a theory that dissonance sounds unpleasant to listeners across all cultures. Dissonance is to a certain degree culture-dependent, but also appears to be partly intrinsic to the music. Studies have shown that infants as young as 4 months old show negative reactions to dissonance."


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## bryla (Feb 6, 2011)

It depends

and

analyze films, where you think the music works


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## lux (Feb 6, 2011)

if youre looking for "standards" probably best option would be buying a few books about film scoring. And, as Thomas suggest, analyze films.

Converting emotions in music is such a wide open field, fortunately. And there is good space for personal interpretation.


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## impressions (Feb 6, 2011)

one of the best ways i like to observe on emotional compositions is bad TV series or good ones, even soap operas can give you a good idea on what's working to the scene. or some corny hollywood cop series. 
the real problem is writing it in context to the film's language. 
one time i thought of an exercise-to take some national geographic movie about a cockroach and make it like a horror movie-and then like a really love movie, and then action movie...and observe the outcome.
there is sub-text where the actors faces actually say nothing but the music speaks instead, lots of techniques and approaches.
watch, observe, and try to recreate-that's the best advice i can give.


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## gsilbers (Feb 6, 2011)

[quote:995726a842="southnorth @ Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:08 am"]So, as some of you may know, I'm relatively new to the specific art and craft of adding music to picture. I have much experience with music though.

I have three questions for you guys:

- Are there any rules or guide available (more rules of thumb) on what kinds of instruments and instrument combinations to use when expressing certain feelings and emotions?

- The same quesion as above applied to specific scenes. What works where?

- Where to apply music and where not to? For instance, music during a dialogue is not necessarily a good idea.

And please, don't say 'it depends'. I most certainly know that. I'm looking for general knowledge, things that are known to work great, tips on how to addressò p   —= p   —Kž p   —K¸ p   —Lº p   —L× p   —Vá p   —WP p   —YÈ p   —YÐ p   —[ p   —[# p   —[ñ p   —\# p   —]) p   —]4 p   —` p   —`‹ p   —Òù p   —Òú p   —Ö› p   —Öª p   —×ˆ p   —×« p   —×Ñ p   —Ù p   —ÜÆ p   —ÝA p   —òé p   —òý p   —óà p   —ô p   —ô¾ p   —ôÜ p   —öQ p   —öq p


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## Musicologo (Feb 6, 2011)

You really should check out this blog:

http://musicdm.wordpress.com/

This guy has just compiled a series of sorts of cliché effects with examples that you may use as a rule of thumb if you are not with much time into reading books right now.

There are at least 4 posts under "Emotional Connection" that actually work with the cultural conventions we use.

I personally don't believe in this thing of "music and emotions", I believe it's all inside your head and not in the music itself and that it is a cultural and linguistic/metaphorical phenomena that is far from being universal.

But within people with the same cultural and experimental background the odds of getting it right increase a lot, so it will work for your intents.


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## rayinstirling (Feb 7, 2011)

I have a real problem with this.

'preferring to think music can create emotion rather than emotion creating music.

Reading some of the replies here makes me think I'm right.


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## wst3 (Feb 7, 2011)

Slightly different perspective, as I write mostly for live theatre...

There are "standards" or cliches that are in vogue today. Some may last several years, some may disappear tomorrow. It is a good idea to at least know what other composers and arrangers are doing today. It's just as important to learn what composers and arrangers did 10, 20, 30 years ago.

Some folks, (you'll hear the names Hermann, Williams, and maybe Elfman pop up) have created their own vocabularies, but if you do your homework you'll find threads that link the techniques or ideas that each makes use of to their predecessors.

It's an evolution, driven by public tastes (and you can't legislate, let alone explain public taste) and technology. Oh, and the vision of the director making a film.

Beyond that, it really seems to come down to how well your reactions to certain things, both musical and visual or plot-line, mesh with the general public, and same said directors.

Impressions described an excellent exercise... I haven't tried it yet, but you can bet I will. I'll also suggest another one, which I have tried - take a melody and cast it in as many different settings as you can. Up until now I've been casting these melodies in different genres - pop, rock, blues, country, baroque, romantic, etc - as a way to loosen up my own narrow vision. It's a ton of fun!

If you are looking for books that might give you ideas about how to approach the topic (without, sadly, answering the core questions) I'd heartily recommend three:

Sound Design: The Expressive Power of Music, Voice and Sound Effects in Cinema 
by David Sonnenschein
- David has an interesting, almost too scientific view of sound design, but he will make you think!

Sound and Music for the Theatre, Third Edition: The Art & Technique of Design 
by Deena Kaye and James LeBrecht
- don't let the title put you off, I've learned a ton from them, I have all three editions<G>.

Theatre Sound by John A. Leonard
- I just got this, and it is a lot more technically oriented than I expected, and it definitely focuses on live theatre, but I like it a lot, and I think I'm getting more out of it than I realize.

You might also want to look at the Scarecrow Film Score Guides, I picked up one for Batman and found it entertaining, if not a tad on the academic side. I liked it enough to order "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir", "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" and "The Godfather" from the same series.

All of these are available from Amazon.

Happy hunting...


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## David Story (Feb 7, 2011)

This may be covered by the posts above, but here's a specific example.

Watch a classic scene. First with sound, then no sound. 
Then transcribe it, at least the top line. 

Example:

Here are 2 different romantic encounters, scored in different ways. Yet there are fundamental similarities too. Just the first minute is enough. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYYxG27S_4c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MDPeL8lpzo

There are rhythmic, tempo, harmonic, melodic, and orchestration conventions here. They convey the emotions of romantic love in synchronized music. 

This is the next best thing to being an assistant to a master composer, and watching how they have a basic set of techniques, that they creatively adapt to a specific scene.

Find classic action, mystery, comedy, etc. It's great fun, and you will learn the "rules" of cinema.


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## impressions (Feb 7, 2011)

rayinstirling @ Mon Feb 07 said:


> I have a real problem with this.
> 
> 'preferring to think music can create emotion rather than emotion creating music.
> 
> Reading some of the replies here makes me think I'm right.



+1


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## southnorth (Feb 8, 2011)

Thanks for tips and suggestions!

I understand there are many ways to Rome. That said, can anyone say something reasonable on where to apply music and where not to? How can I identify the 'emotional points'? Some of these are easy to pin out, but sometimes I start wondering if I should add music to a part or not. And if I don't have any instructions from the director/producer regarding this, it's kinda up to me. Any rules of thumb?


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## impressions (Feb 8, 2011)

less is more.
experiment as much time as you can before setting down. find peak points. find weak points that needs strengthening. be the director. think like him. breath life to the character through music-what is the right instrumentations, what emotions fits the scene, what gets in your way should usually be without music, breathing-do not let over music buildups come instead of the moment that goes in the picture-hence less is more, sometimes the music echos through the scene and vibrates it-creating vibration points like this instead of a theme for a scene. there is simply too much i can write a book about it and i've only scored few films.


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## David Story (Feb 8, 2011)

Support the actors. 
If they are not holding your attention, use music to generate the level of emotion and energy the scene needs.

Stay away from dialogue. Low strings and brass, simple woodwinds, a pad.

Set the scene, master shots and locations are improved by music.

Score the chase, not the explosion.

Bridge between scenes, transitions are really helped by music making the change.

Play comedy straight, don't write "funny" music unless you're told to.

Suspense and mystery live in music. If your doing a thriller or horror, you have to keep the audience on the edge of their seat.

Every composer wonders about certain scenes. In a great movie, it's easier to see where music adds, and when it's not helpful. For the last decade or so, producers want you to score everything, and they decide what to keep at the dub.

Be a storyteller, help the audience understand the thoughts, actions and dynamics of the characters. 

I will think of more soon, but this is a start.


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## RiffWraith (Feb 8, 2011)

Some interesting points here.

_- Are there any rules or guide available (more rules of thumb) on what kinds of instruments and instrument combinations to use when expressing certain feelings and emotions?_

No steadfast rules, but as pointed out, there are some cliches, and some "to be expected-ness". But the laws of physamusic (as I like to call it) does dictate certain things when it comes to emotion. You wouldn't use a *p* hi register legato violin note, with a soft legato oboe playing a minor key melody when trying to convey extreme anger. Ok, that's kinda obvious, and to the extreme, but that is just one example of the fact that there are certain laws to follow.

_- What works where?_

That is a loaded Q. Best advice here is bryla's comment of "analyze films, where you think the music works". For someone to type a list of what does and doesn't work where would take days, and wouldn't be completely accurate for every circumstance.

_- Where to apply music and where not to? _

The director will tell you that; very rarely does the composer decide where to write music. If you are just practicing and aren't scoring to pic with a dir., go with what works for you now. It will be a good learning experience.

_- For instance, music during a dialogue is not necessarily a good idea. _

Not true at all. Ever watch a Star Wars film? There is much music during much of the dialogue. Soft music that doesn't compete with the dialogue, but there is plenty of it. Of course there are plenty of dialogue scenes in movies with no music; sometimes this is called for. The director will tell you when he wants music under the dialogue. 

Oh, and FOLLOW THE TEMP!


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## RiffWraith (Feb 8, 2011)

impressions @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> less is more.



Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, more is more. :D 



impressions @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> be the director. think like him. breath life to the character through music...



Very well said!



David Story @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> Bridge between scenes, transitions are really helped by music making the change.



Absolutely. Experienced, professional composers know how to do this well; poor transitions are the sign of inexperience.



rayinstirling @ Mon Feb 07 said:


> I have a real problem with this.
> 
> 'preferring to think music can create emotion rather than emotion creating music.'



What exactly do you have a problem with there? It seems that the author of those words was saying that you should think in terms of the fact that music can - or should - create emotion. Shouldn't it? Or what am I missing?

Cheers.


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## rJames (Feb 8, 2011)

I wish this thread were a sticky.

Lots of good, clear ideas from everyone.

Interesting.


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## southnorth (Feb 9, 2011)

Yeah, a lot of cool stuff. Are there more rules of the kind "score the chase not the explosion"? These are quite helpful because they speed things up. Obviously, with experience these things are more clear.


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## robteehan (Feb 9, 2011)

*The Taste of Banzo's Sword*

Matajuro Yagyu was the son of a famous swordsman. His fater, believing that his son's work was too mediocre to anticipate mastership, disowned him.

So Matajuro went to Mount Futara and there found the famous swordsman Banzo. But Banzo confirmed the father's judgment. "You wish to learn swordsmanship under my guidance?" asked Banzo. "You cannot fulfill the requirements."

"But if I work hard, how many years will it take me to become a master?" persisted the youth.

"The rest of your life," replied Banzo.

"I cannot wait that long," explained Matajuro. "I am willing to pass through any hardship if only you will teach me. If I become your devoted servant, how long might it be?"

"Oh, maybe ten years," Banzo relented.

"My father is getting old, and soon I must take care of him," continued Matajuro. "If I work far more intensively, how long would it take me?"

"Oh, maybe thirty years," said Banzo.

"Why is that?" asked Matajuro. "First you say ten and now thirty years. I will undergo any hardship to master this art in the shortest time!"

"Well," said Banzo, "in that case you will have to remain with me for seventy years. A man in such a hurry as you are to get results seldom learns quickly."

"Very well," declared the youth, understanding at last that he was being rebuked for impatience, "I agree."

Matajuro was told never to speak of fencing and never to touch a sword. He cooked for his master, washed the dishes, made his bed, cleaned the yard, cared for the garden, all without a word of swordsmanship.

Three years passed. Still Matajuro labored on. Thinking of his future, he was sad. He had not even begun to learn the art to which he had devoted his life.

But one day Banzo crept up behind him and gave him a terrible blow with a wooden sword.

The following day, when Matajuro was cooking rice, Banzo again sprang upon him unexpectedly.

After that, day and night, Matajuro had to defend himself from unexpected thrusts. Not a moment passed in any day that he did not have to think of the taste of Banzo's sword.

He learned so rapidly he brough smiles to the face of his master. Matajuro became one of the greatest swordsman in the land.


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## robteehan (Feb 9, 2011)

Couldn't resist posting the above... in terms of practical advice, I started reading Karlin's "On the track", and it's full of valuable wisdom such as what you're asking, and much more - I highly recommend it.


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## impressions (Feb 9, 2011)

RiffWraith @ Tue Feb 08 said:


> What exactly do you have a problem with there? It seems that the author of those words was saying that you should think in terms of the fact that music can - or should - create emotion. Shouldn't it? Or what am I missing?
> 
> Cheers.



the problem is people who think and create music without feeling anything-the emotion itself creates the music-not the opposite. of course you can argue that there is trial and error-hence sort of thinking, but there isn't one in reality. once you feel the correct emotion nothing can stop you from composing it to the point and everyone will understand what you meant. the moment you think about the music and creating it through thought-that's when you stop connecting to any emotion-and music in films is about provoking an emotional response. without the emotion there would be no empathy, without empathy there would be no point in relating to the film or seeing it.


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## rJames (Feb 10, 2011)

robteehan @ Wed Feb 09 said:


> *The Taste of Banzo's Sword*
> 
> Matajuro Yagyu was the son of a famous swordsman. His fater, believing that his son's work was too mediocre to anticipate mastership, disowned him.
> 
> ...



Never mind, I thought you were talking about Inspector Clouseau.


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