# East West Strings



## Dracarys (Jan 31, 2011)

Is anyone else finding these strings very hard to make sound realistic, and not even by a dynamic stand point, just quality in general?
For every sample I find that it comes with an awful scraping sound that no channel eq or filter can get rid of, or that weird squeaking noise when ever I play in higher octaves. Hell it doesn't seem right to be using so many FX plugins on a string of this genre. 
I find that most of their strings only sit well in the back, or layered with another string, and only sound decent when there is an entire mix going on.
I'm very satisfied with their Gypsy, Silk, and Stormdrum 2 libraries, even brass, but these strings man, I don't know what it is.

I'm thinking about purchasing some Vienna strings, I've been very unmotivated due to this dilemma and hesitant in starting up new ideas.

I tried Monster Staccato's from Cinematic Strings and was able to achieve a better result than any EW staccato, just by adding minimal reverb and slightly adjusting the ADSR.

Please feel free to share your experiences. 
Thanks so much.


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## andreasOL (Jan 31, 2011)

Casalena @ Mon 31 Jan said:


> ...
> 
> I tried Monster Staccato's from Cinesamples...



You meant "Cinematic Strings", didn't you?


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## Dracarys (Jan 31, 2011)

Yes my fault, Cinematic Strings


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## Ryan Scully (Jan 31, 2011)

I honestly never really got around to putting too much time into EWQLSO's strings. Not long after I bought Gold I was already splurging on the more recent next gen string libraries. I still do find application for their brass and the percussion is great. All in all a phenominal value for what is presented.

I absolutely love Cinematic Strings - Which I think definitely carries a lot of the character that was set forth by EWQLSO(but with Next Gen control options) - I dont use the short articulations all too much but the legato is gorgeous and the real time vibrato control is outstanding..I also really like the way they blend with Symphobia - which is a huge plus.


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## Dracarys (Jan 31, 2011)

I never tried the cinematic strings, they are a little synthy sounding to me, but they could be very useful for epic cue's and trailers.

Can anyone share their experience with Vienna, and if the strings have to be altered a lot to achieve relism?

I'm currently screening sweet water but am not sure what would be the ideal for a $500 budget.
I would want some of their latest instruments.

Right now either option 1 or 2 look hefty:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/manufac ... ic_Library


Also could someone confirm if most of these strings come with Komplete or kontakt. I have a friend who says he has some vienna for kontakt but I'm not sure if they are the same caliber.

thanks!


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## JohnG (Jan 31, 2011)

actually, I really like the sound of EWQLSO Platinum strings straight out of the box -- no eq. 

No question the top new libraries sound better than something five or six years old -- but those EWQL strings still sound pretty good to me and I still use them. 

The new libraries' mechanics -- legato and so on -- are part of their attraction, not just the sound, but there again I am not such a big fan of conspicuous legato and I never use portamento, as I don't care for that effect.

If you want to really "design" your string sound, Vienna might be a good choice, as a good bit of it is recorded without much room sound and it's up to the engineer to put it in space. 

Personally, I prefer samples recorded in a hall or at least a large studio, but there are lots of composers making really good music with every one of these libraries.


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## Dracarys (Jan 31, 2011)

They can sound great, but I'd like to have to not hide an instruments flaw within the mix, solo strings seem impossible with EW strings because of the prominent scraping sound and squeaking/hissing.


I'm not sure which VSL, that isn't solely an expansion, are most recent:


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VI2SpecialPl-E/

*or*

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VIOrchStr2/



Hollywood Strings is to East West as *____* is to VSL


Thanks![/b]


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## Rob (Feb 1, 2011)

actually they're the only strings I could get a decent string quartet sound from ( http://www.robertosoggetti.com/EWQuartetRavel2mics.mp3 )... generally speaking I find ew samples to be extremely high quality


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## germancomponist (Feb 1, 2011)

Rob @ Tue Feb 01 said:


> actually they're the only strings I could get a decent string quartet sound from ( http://www.robertosoggetti.com/EWQuartetRavel2mics.mp3 )... generally speaking I find ew samples to be extremely high quality



Very good example, and I agree. o/~


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## Ashermusic (Feb 1, 2011)

JohnG @ Mon Jan 31 said:


> actually, I really like the sound of EWQLSO Platinum strings straight out of the box -- no eq.
> 
> No question the top new libraries sound better than something five or six years old -- but those EWQL strings still sound pretty good to me and I still use them.
> 
> ...



+1 to nearly everything John wrote.


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## Dracarys (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm not disputing the fact that they can sound great at times and can get the job done, I just like to have more control of my mix and not vise versa.
There are many samples in the libraries I don't even touch, I don't enjoy having to be extremely selective (that's not to say that the instruments shouldn't agree)

Is anyone familiar with the new Vienna libraries?
Still waiting on an email back from VSL


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## germancomponist (Feb 1, 2011)

Casalena, EWQLSO libraries are especially done for playing "out of the box", without having to adjust reverb levels, placements e.t.c. . 

Using nearly dry libraries like VSL, this is a completely other concept. Both are good for what they are done.


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## chimuelo (Feb 1, 2011)

Roberto, your string stuff is always really appreciated.
So many times you speak, and prove your point with audio.
Most refreshing approach, and much appreciated.

Last time I had a decent Quartet was when I used XSamples Solo Strings for Gigastudio and it worked well.
I am sure LASS will work well too but I need the full upgrade.

Thanks Again....


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## Ashermusic (Feb 1, 2011)

JohnG @ Tue Feb 01 said:


> Roberto, that is amazingly musical! You really, really impress me.



Once again, I must agree with John.

Roberto is living proof that it is always more the guy than the gear.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Feb 1, 2011)

Roberto, you make me want to buy these strings, even though I've already got more than I need! Maybe I should instead just use more elbow grease...


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## José Herring (Feb 1, 2011)

Rob @ Tue Feb 01 said:


> actually they're the only strings I could get a decent string quartet sound from ( http://www.robertosoggetti.com/EWQuartetRavel2mics.mp3 )... generally speaking I find ew samples to be extremely high quality



Truly stunning.


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## Mike Greene (Feb 1, 2011)

After reading a few of these comments, I had to check to see what all the fuss was over Roberto's piece. Wow! Outstanding work. That was a treat to listen to.


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## Mike Greene (Feb 1, 2011)

Casalena @ Mon Jan 31 said:


> I'm not sure which VSL, that isn't solely an expansion, are most recent:
> 
> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VI2SpecialPl-E/
> 
> ...


The first thing to note is that you linked "Orchestral Strings 2." Just so there's no misunderstanding, this is not a more advanced or more recent version of "Orchestral Strings 1," but rather is a supplement. They were both released at the same time and most people would buy both. If you only bought one, you would get "Orchestral Strings 1," not "Orchestral Strings 2," since "1" is where all your fundamental articulations would be. ("2" is more of the seldom used articulations. I'm over-generalizing, but that's the basic idea.)

One other thing to know is that "Solo Strings" and "Chamber Strings" are also separate VSL collections. In other words, there are no solo strings in "Orchestral Strings 1 or 2." Add all these together, along with the Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion, and you have what is called the "VSL Symphonic Cube."

There is also a VSL collection called "Appassionata Strings" which is still another collection. So all totaled, to really have the full VSL Strings abilities, it will cost you some bucks.

Your better bet might be VSL SE. I have it (as well as the full Symphonic Cube and Appassionata Strings) and love it. It's an incredible bang for the buck. You get almost all the orchestral instruments with it, but obviously, there will be some articulations that will be missing. Those missing articulations are going to bug you at certain times. Whether the cost tradeoff is worthwhile is hard to say.

By the way, I can't say for sure whether the VSL SE Plus that you linked includes both VSL SE and VSL SE Extended. Like with "Orchestral Strings 2" and "Orchestral Strings 1," "Extended" is a supplement, not a more advanced version. Hopefully that "Plus" version you linked includes both.


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## Hannes_F (Feb 1, 2011)

Casalena @ Wed Feb 02 said:


> Hannes I will take a listen and post what I've described about once I'm out of the studio.



You leave the studio for critical listening?


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## Dracarys (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm setting mics for a tracking session, I'm on and off my laptop. I'll be out of the control room around 10


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## RiffWraith (Feb 1, 2011)

germancomponist @ Wed Feb 02 said:


> Nothing!



+1!


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## RiffWraith (Feb 1, 2011)

Casalena > those wierd scraping noises you speak of, do you hear that in this sample?

http://www.jeffreyhayat.com/EWStrnoiseC.mp3


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Feb 1, 2011)

Hannes_F @ 1/2/2011 said:


> Casalena @ Wed Feb 02 said:
> 
> 
> > Hannes I will take a listen and post what I've described about once I'm out of the studio.
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## SvK (Feb 1, 2011)

I do not wish to sound arrogant, but a big mistake many people make when they first start doing mockups for strings, is that they tend to play all their sustains @ forte velocity levels. 

If your string library has 3 velocity layers try spending most of your time in the first 2 layers and only touch the forte layer for short bombast moments.....Suddenly you'll say...."Oh there's that string library I thought I didn't own"

just my 2 cents.

SvK


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## Dracarys (Feb 1, 2011)

Yes Ned, I hear a vivid CUHHHH sound of the room, breath, or whatever it is.

I uploaded a variation of instruments, at 4:20 I have EW large marcato's mimicking the cinematic strings, then at 4:50 come the Cinematic strings.
EW then Cinematic, back and forth. The cinematic are less CUH.
Also, the squeaking on the EW staccato's is prominent.
The song ends with Cinematic strings, I don't really hear the Cuh's.

I don't normally play chords like this all of the same sample, of course its just a quick example.
And for the record I'm not condescending EW, they are great and I will still continue to use them, but I think it's time for a little Vienna in my life.

http://soundcloud.com/anthony-casalena/ew


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## Ashermusic (Feb 1, 2011)

SvK @ Tue Feb 01 said:


> I do not wish to sound arrogant, but a big mistake many people make when they first start doing mockups for strings, is that they tend to play all their sustains @ forte velocity levels.
> 
> If your string library has 3 velocity layers try spending most of your time in the first 2 layers and only touch the forte layer for short bombast moments.....Suddenly you'll say...."Oh there's that string library I thought I didn't own"
> 
> ...



I totally agree.


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## Dracarys (Feb 1, 2011)

SvK @ Tue Feb 01 said:


> I do not wish to sound arrogant, but a big mistake many people make when they first start doing mockups for strings, is that they tend to play all their sustains @ forte velocity levels.
> 
> If your string library has 3 velocity layers try spending most of your time in the first 2 layers and only touch the forte layer for short bombast moments.....Suddenly you'll say...."Oh there's that string library I thought I didn't own"
> 
> ...




You don't sound arrogant at all. I am aware and the difference is far from drastic.
Ned just posted a link and I heard what I've been describing immediately.


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## Hannes_F (Feb 2, 2011)

Use more violas. Seriously.

What you are bothered about is probably the strings bowing noise in conjunction with the ADSR sculpting. It would fill a book about what it is, where it comes from, how to avoid, how sample developers avoid it (different methods), how some of those methods do not really solve the problem, how that causes new problems, how some composers don't fully understand the recording process with different mic pairs and try to model that to their workflow vs. the other way round, why we need a full mix in order to judge instead of a single voice.

But since you are an experienced studio cat you know all that already. Instead, use more violas. Balance helps a lot.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Feb 2, 2011)

Casalena @ 2/2/2011 said:


> Ned just posted a link and I heard what I've been describing immediately.



You're confusing me with Jeff.


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## JohnG (Feb 2, 2011)

Casalena @ 1st February 2011 said:


> Yes Ned, I hear a vivid CUHHHH sound of the room, breath, or whatever it is.
> 
> I uploaded a variation of instruments, at 4:20 I have EW large marcato's mimicking the cinematic strings, then at 4:50 come the Cinematic strings.
> EW then Cinematic, back and forth. The cinematic are less CUH.
> ...



your example does sound kind of hideous in places -- try some different patches. the one you chose to play the solo lines is just ugly.

And the marcato stuff sounds not bad -- same thing though, it sounds as though you're playing some of those notes on the wrong selections from the library.

None of these libraries are all that forgiving if you are roughing out something and not distributing the pitches over the sections, or if you don't take the time to go through and figure out which ones you like. There are patches I never used (the q-legato stuff I hardly ever touched), though other people like them.

That said, if you have already done all that and carefully sifted through the patches to find the ones you like best, then I guess it's time to use something else?

Good luck either way and happy composing!


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## Ed (Feb 2, 2011)

Casalena @ Mon Jan 31 said:


> I never tried the cinematic strings, they are a little synthy sounding to me, but they could be very useful for epic cue's and trailers.



What about the BSG demo?


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## Ashermusic (Feb 17, 2011)

I become more and more convinced every day that "synthy" is one of those terms, like "warm", that is so subjective a descriptor that it merges on meaningless and has more to do with the performance than the sample library itself. After all, they are all created by sampling actual players.

If I play in a separate Vln 1, Vln 2, Vla, Cello, and Bass part using any strings sample library on the planet and do not hard quantize the performances, to my ear they will sound less "synthy" than with any library where a person either hard quantizes the performances or plays them in as a chord. 

IMHO, this is true with HS, KH, LASS, EWQLSO, CS, Vienna, Sonivoz, and even Omnisphere to a lesser degree.

That said, of course they all do sound different and one can argue that one or the other sounds "better", more "realistic," etc. but "synthy" is more about performance IMHO.


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## JKranz EW (Feb 17, 2011)

Jay has some good points about the 'synthy' effect that can result when not using samples to their full potential... one added thing I'd say that to my ears heavily contributes to that synthy or 'pump organ' sound is not using automation on the string lines. Most libraries, including ours, have several layers of different dynamics triggered by midi CC (usually 11, but some patches are programmed differently). Utilizing those will give much more depth and realism to your lines. o/~ 

-Jonathan


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## rayinstirling (Feb 17, 2011)

If I'm getting the gist here. Are we saying, often the quality of the resulting mixed and recorded sound of a virtual instrument library are more to do with the abilities of the user rather than the samples. Now there is a novel concept >8o 

Sorry just my dry wit getting the better of me again.


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## Rob (Apr 5, 2011)

rayinstirling @ 17th February 2011 said:


> ....
> 
> Sorry just my dry wit getting the better of me again.



I kept reading and re-reading not understanding how your dry wig could get the better of you... :lol:


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## rayinstirling (Apr 6, 2011)

Rob @ Tue Apr 05 said:


> rayinstirling @ 17th February 2011 said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...



Well Rob, I don't know whether I should use the word humor or humour and unfortunately, my hair is definitely thinning.


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