# Orchestral Tools up to 63% off - which one



## Fleer (Dec 3, 2018)

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/komplete/orchestral-tools/

The Inspire bundle or the Metropolis bundle (apparently without M3)?


----------



## Puzzlefactory (Dec 3, 2018)

I’m going to try and save for the ark bundle (as I primarily write trailer music). Definitely going get ark 1 no matter what...


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 3, 2018)

My only question is why does Ark 2 cost more than the others?


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 3, 2018)

Mike Fox said:


> My only question is why does Ark 2 cost more than the others?



I dont know the reason why it costs more but it costs more. I mean it has a higher price on OTs page too, so that is the reason. Why? Only Odin knows.


----------



## X-Bassist (Dec 3, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I dont know the reason why it costs more but it costs more. I mean it has a higher price on OTs page too, so that is the reason. Why? Only Odin knows.



I'm sure it's all calculated. Since it's the "quiet" version they probably had to pay for a de-noise pass on the samples, not cheap with thousands of samples.

Could be the moment to get Symphonic Spheres. *Anyone have it and love it, or don't use it at all?* I'd like to know why. 

Seems to be so much in there for the price, but the videos are so old (no capsule) and it now requires 5.8.1, I have to believe there have been a number of updates done.

Why OT? Make a new video for the current release! So strange to watch a video for a product that you KNOW is going to be different.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 3, 2018)

Wow, have orchestral tools been bought out by DFS..... ?



AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I dont know the reason why it costs more but it costs more. I mean it has a higher price on OTs page too, so that is the reason. Why? Only Odin knows.



I asked Odin (lovely chap), and he wasn't sure either. The BBC did, however, say it was because of Brexit - but then isn't everything ?


----------



## Fitz (Dec 3, 2018)

I own SF Brass, Strings, SCS, HZP, Wotan Choirs and few other libraries. 

Will I benefit from anything in Met 1 or 3 that I can't already to in what I own? I was waiting to pick these libraries up but I'm curious if anyone thinks its worth getting if I already own and use a lot of Spitfire stuff. This sale seems really good.


----------



## zimm83 (Dec 3, 2018)

Michael Antrum said:


> Wow, have orchestral tools been bought out by DFS..... ?


Really don't understand what happens....
OT on sale once more ???
Just bought last week MA2 and inspire 1 ????
WTF ?????
And NO MA4 this year????
Are they stopping vst's ?????
So in love with my 3 arks....but man.....didn't see that coming.........
It's not possible......
Will pick up SSRuns.....


----------



## jneebz (Dec 3, 2018)

Holy unexpected happenings.....


----------



## cadenzajon (Dec 3, 2018)

How is Orchestral Grands? I have Galaxy D and True Keys bundle (nice for solo work), but nothing recorded in a room with orchestral positioning, and I don't seem to obtain that "sound" just by throwing a reverb at it. Nearly all the rest of my template is in Teldex.


----------



## Rap-sody (Dec 3, 2018)

zimm83 said:


> Really don't understand what happens....
> OT on sale once more ???
> Just bought last week MA2 and inspire 1 ????
> WTF ?????
> ...


Always funny to see the reactions from some people.

Native Instruments regularly have sales with companies when their products becomes NKS ready.

This time, it's with Orchestral Tools.

Why would they stop producing VST's? They recently released new products...

People are under the assumptions that there will be a new Ark product every year until the end of time. Either an MA4 is not ready, either it will stay a trilogy, which is still a great thing, or they might decide to release after the Native Instruments sale at mid-December...

Don't be overdramatic guys, it's just a sale after Black Friday...


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 3, 2018)

Rap-sody said:


> Always funny to see the reactions from some people.
> 
> Native Instruments regularly have sales with companies when their products becomes NKS ready.
> 
> ...



Well, quite not exactly right, though Native does sales quite often, OT had in the past barely sales and also they had back then saying that they don´t do sales for whatever reason.


----------



## tokatila (Dec 3, 2018)

Hmm....I have all the Albions. Ark 1+2 or just Ark 3? Seems like Ark 1+2 has much more overlap with the Albions.


----------



## Puzzlefactory (Dec 3, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Well, quite not exactly right, though Native does sales quite often, OT had in the past barely sales and also they had back then saying that they don´t do sales for whatever reason.



Yeah that policy seems to have gone out the window what with the Berlin series and now this. 

Still, there’s a lot more competition now than when a lot of these were originally released.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2018)

Wow, so nice when the sale is for stuff I don't own but kind of want. So the Inspire bundle or the Ark bundle. (Or Both?) If I got both, that might be my holiday budget. 

I do own Tundra and Majestica, so Inspire might be better.... Time to go watch YouTube....


----------



## NoamL (Dec 3, 2018)

Seriously and without a hint of melodrama, this is a portent of the VI-apocalypse. Many people predicted it, well, now it's shifting gradually from prediction to reality. All of those "we don't like sales, our high prices assure high quality & exclusivity" promises just can't hold up anymore against all the competition that entered the market in the last 3 years. Just like EastWest a sampling generation ago, being forced into cutthroat sales for the Hollywood lineup by competition from Spitfire and OT.

And what about the new developers? I don't know how many more orchestral libraries can actually get off the ground. People won't invest in full orchestras - especially the winds and percussion - unless they already like and own the strings and brass... it's dumb but it's the reality... and the competition to sell strings and brass right now is vicious as hell. I'm worried for SoundIron's new orchestra (Hyperion) and Performance Samples (Con Moto). I think Wallbank's orchestra (Cinematic Studio) will still sell because it's designed and priced with a sort of built-in assumption of the apocalypse that's unfolding, and he hooked a lot of customers with the strings.

The message is loud and clear though. The days of selling a single orchestral department (especially strings or brass) for $500+, or single instruments for the equivalent add-it-up price, are _over forever_. Kind of amazing considering Hollywood Brass debuted not 8 years ago at $800.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 3, 2018)

X-Bassist said:


> Could be the moment to get Symphonic Spheres. *Anyone have it and love it, or don't use it at all?* I'd like to know why.



I like the harp and the trills orchestrator is often handy.


----------



## prodigalson (Dec 3, 2018)

NoamL said:


> The days of selling an orchestral group (especially strings or brass) for $500+, or single instruments for the equivalent add-it-up price, are _over._



You may well be right but I’d be curious to know just how successful Afflatus has been so far with it’s quite premium price tag for what is essentially a strings library


----------



## NoamL (Dec 3, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> You may well be right but I’d be curious to know just how successful Afflatus has been so far with it’s quite premium price tag for what is essentially a strings library



Both Afflatus and Synchron are in the way of the tsunami for sure. 

Even though IMO Afflatus is some of the nicest string sampling in the last 2 years since CSS. 

I wouldn't call either library "overpriced" (notice, that's a word I avoided in the previous post) because they have much more sample content than cheap libraries like Adventure Strings. It's not that they're too expensive, it's that the features which _make_ them more expensive, are not pulling their weight in the competition with cheap "it only does one thing, but it gets it done" libraries. Hobbyist composers won't buy it because they don't need a Cadillac; pro composers won't buy it because they already have four Cadillacs.


----------



## Henu (Dec 3, 2018)

Hah, that last sentence is just _so_ well put. :D


----------



## Paul T McGraw (Dec 3, 2018)

There are only so many people who can make a living being a composer. I am a hobbyist. But from what I can tell, the media market is not expanding at the same rate as the number of composers trying to enter the business.

At the same time, good sample libraries keep proliferating. Where is the money going to come from to support all of the products? It isn't going to come from the pros. As @NoamL pointed out, that market is saturated. I do believe it is possible for new products to emerge, but developers will be best served if they don't just take a "me too" approach.

At this point, I would love to see a sample library taking the Wallander NotePerformer concept of working with notation programs and improve the sound, dramatically. I really prefer to work with notation, and while composers until now have had to use a DAW for competitive sound, I bet there are many of us who would prefer to use notation.


----------



## Henu (Dec 3, 2018)

In my case, the fun part is that even though I make my living as an in-house composer/ producer and my employer is providing me the tools needed, I still end up buying myself roughly 80% of the libraries I use at work.

The reason is simple- no job lasts forever. And what would I do when it ends some day when all the tools I worked with stay with the company? Go home and start working with Kontakt 5 Factory Library until I can afford EWQLSO next year? Owning the licences myself not only makes my future way more secure but also grants me the moral right to use them in tasks done outside the company. And when I do those outside gigs, I usually save the income to my audio tools budget funds, using that money to invest later on new software, hardware and sample libraries to feed that future-proof machine.


----------



## StillLife (Dec 3, 2018)

Wow, tempting. Currently own nothing from OT, partly because they did not have NKS... At the time I considered buying Inspire, now I am considering the Inspire bundle. Any comments from anyone who has owned them for some time?


----------



## Vik (Dec 3, 2018)

NoamL said:


> Even though IMO Afflatus is some of the nicest string sampling in the last 2 years since CSS.
> 
> I wouldn't call either library "overpriced" (notice, that's a word I avoided in the previous post) because they have much more sample content than cheap libraries like Adventure Strings. It's not that they're too expensive, it's that the features which _make_ them more expensive, are not pulling their weight in the competition with cheap "it only does one thing, but it gets it done" libraries.



Interesting to hear your thoughts about this, Noam. Like you, I wouldn't be worried on Cinematic Studio Strings behalf; maybe CSS even was a major factor I'm making it harder to sell products in the circa $800+ range, since they worked hard at making CSS good and still sell it for what they sell it for $400. Some companies make a lot of extra money by reducing their price, and a lot has happened in the VI market the last 5 years only.

I'm not pessimistic about OT either. I have no idea how they are doing financially, and it's of course hard to keep up with Spitfire many campaigns, products and (at least in periods) active presence here. But Berlin Strings is circa 5 years old now, is still highly respected, sounds good, and has features that AFAIK no others have. Maybe OT felt that they could have sold a lot more of their Inspire and Ark products, and want to do something with that now - hence the new sale.



NoamL said:


> The days of selling a single orchestral department (especially strings or brass) for $500+, or single instruments for the equivalent add-it-up price, are _over forever_.


Regarding Afflatus/Berlin, I don't really see Afflatus as a single product. One can configure it in so many ways that not only does it serve as both a chamber and a symphonic product and soon first strings, but as a modular library where you can combine the different presets to get pretty much any configuration you want. Like SSS and SCS, SAS also has more ensemble options than OT. So the Afflatus selling point isn't being feature rich like Berlin Strings - it's something else.

Maybe Strezov, like Audiobro (LASS and SAS has many similarities) plan to do what Audiobro does with LASS: it has a high list price ($1400) but is 'always' on sale. Or maybe they'll keep the price, and at some point in the future divide the library into for instance main sections, ensembles, expansion kits and first strings. But even today, Afflatus doesn't compete with Berlin Strings with it's 8/6/5/5/4 configuration, or SSS (16/14/12/10/8), or SCS (4/3/3/3/3) or OT First Chairs etc - it competes with all of them, and can as such be seen as at least three or even four products. So I'm not worried about the future of SAS either; it's tone (maybe except for maybe the basses?) and modularity/divisi sells it. Here's how modular it is.

Maybe the current situation will will result in more manufacturers offering demo versions, or maybe they'll start considering selling single instruments like eg Performance Samples does; that would be great. PS is another company I actually wouldn't be worried about, because they have that special focus on tone, which has worked well for Audiobro LASS, Hollywood Strings and Wallbank/CSS, and has also sold a lot of sul tastos and flautandos for Spitfire.

I'd be more worried about small companies which make good, but specialised libraries - but which lack important stuff that will make users move on to other products soon er or later, or only serve as additional extras for someone with more complete libraries. Also - Spitfire survives well, it seems, even with Berlin Strings being more feature rich and doing better with their 8/6/6/6/4 range than SF does with their Studio Strings in a very similar config (8/6/5/5/4). I don't think they would have kept doing well if that didn't reduce the price for SSS/SCS a lot since they were called Mural and Sable.
Maybe one key to success for SF is that they focus on the kind of libraries/articulations they really like (combined with active marketing). LASS doesn't succeed due to intense marketing, but because they did some good stuff 10 years ago which many of their users still use and prefer (polyphonic portamento, auto-divisi) + a tone their users eiter like or dislike, but which at least enough people like to keep preferring LASS over others.

That was a long post, I guess all I wanted to say is that I think companies (just like composers) will survive if they do what they love - combined, of course with some marketing, hard work and giving their users what they need or want.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2018)

Hmm. I thought Inspire 1&2, but then I heard the Contrabass Clarinet. So maybe the Arks.....

Is Ark 3 worth it if you have most of 8Dio's percussion and HWO Diamond? 

I can see I'm going to be listening to a lot of YouTube videos in the background while I'm working this week. Actually it is useful to be only half listening for these things. Blah Blah Blah, orchestra sound, Blah Blah Blah, orchestra sound, Blah Blah Blah, orche- woah, what is that? Go back. Okay, this is good. I want this. 

That is kind of how I pick these things. That and I listen to people with more experience than me.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 3, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Is Ark 3 worth it if you have most of 8Dio's percussion and HWO Diamond?


Ark 3 is nothing like these. It’s a very peculiar library but also quite inspiring. At the same time I’ve found I generally replace it after having used it to generate ideas.


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 3, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Ark 3 is nothing like these. It’s a very peculiar library but also quite inspiring. At the same time I’ve found I generally replace it after having used it to generate ideas.



Main Perc lib here is LADD. Interest in Ark3 is about equal with content in addition to Perc.
Apart from 8DIO, would you feel Ark3 likely adds little to LADD ??


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Ark 3 is nothing like these. It’s a very peculiar library but also quite inspiring. At the same time I’ve found I generally replace it after having used it to generate ideas.


Thanks. I have so much stuff now. I really need to start playing with it all. I was planning on quitting buying after BF, but this is really hard to pass up.


----------



## cosmodave29 (Dec 3, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I like the harp and the trills orchestrator is often handy.


I use the fingered trems all the time


----------



## cosmodave29 (Dec 3, 2018)

I honestly hope they aren't doing an Ark 4 this year. Need to give my bank account a rest. LOL


----------



## NoamL (Dec 3, 2018)

@Vik what this forum loves and what pro composers will be attracted to are slightly different things.

We are all slightly software nerds here, we love gadgets and knobs to turn. It's part of the fun. It's cool to have an orchestra at your fingertips, and it's a challenge to make a realistic mockup. If VI's don't create great sounds until you learn the rules of controlling them, well, that's part of the puzzle.

Every person I've met who could call themselves a "working composer", every single one, wants the same thing. They want tools and assistants who will make their workday easier. Remember, it's a job not a hobby. Their job is scoring picture and things that get in the way of that are chores. And no good composer has ever had to hear a great mockup to know their music will work. The mockup is just a logistical hurdle put there by the director.

Once I interviewed with someone, he said that he owns Hollywood Strings but does not use it because it's too complicated and could I recommend something better. If EastWest's articulation system is too much of a bother (and I sympathize) then what chance does Synchron's Vienna Player or Berlin Strings' C.A.P.S.U.L.E. have?


----------



## CGR (Dec 3, 2018)

Has anyone had experience with the Orchestral Grands? I remember reading somewhere about programming/playability consistency issues.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 3, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Main Perc lib here is LADD. Interest in Ark3 is about equal with content in addition to Perc.
> Apart from 8DIO, would you feel Ark3 likely adds little to LADD ??


I don't really think of Ark 3 as a percussion library, though it has a lot of percussion in it (but I seldom use it). I think of it more in terms of the moniker, "beating orchestra," that is, for quickly mocking up repeated orchestra hits and ostinati, and especially for atonal effects and sharp clusters. 

Its Full Orchestra Marcato multis are also very fun for right out of the box completely over-the-top epic blasts. Watch Daniel James's walkthrough to get a good feel for this side of it.


----------



## cosmodave29 (Dec 3, 2018)

Ark 3 is a great addition to this library series. I've used it a ton.


----------



## Vik (Dec 3, 2018)

NoamL said:


> If EastWest's articulation system is too much of a bother (and I sympathize) then what chance does Synchron's Vienna Player or Berlin Strings' C.A.P.S.U.L.E. have?


I don't know much, if anything, about EW's player or the Synchron player, so I'm not sure if I get what you mean?

Personally, I strongly dislike having to tweak stuff when in the midst of making music; I can't make music in nerd mode.

After some initial confusion coming from having spent time with Mural just before I started using Berlin, I find the Capsule UI rather straightforward now. Not as simple as CSS or Afflatus, but easy to use due to the adaptive legatos and the combined multi-presets. But I dislike that one cannot switch between advanced/adaptive legato and other artics within one instance of Kontakt in Berlin (and in SCS/SSS). I'd also like to see some improvements for this area in Capsule, and one reason for this is that I don't want to deal with all those abbreviations:






Are you suggesting that OTs Capsule and VSL Synchron are more complex than Hollywood Strings? Confused. 

Edit: OK, I think I got it. You think the simpler-to-use-and-less-expensive libs will 'win' over the more-expensive-and-harder to use libs for the reason you described. That makes sense, but I think and hope that someone will make products which are both reasonably priced and easy to use - but also have deep editing functions when you need them.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 3, 2018)

Oh my gosh, 500 US for Met Ark 1 and 2? I just paid over 700 two months ago...no way I could have foreseen this. Bumming.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 3, 2018)

I personally first bought Ark 1 and was kind of bummed out with it because I felt I already had a lot of the content in other libraries. Once I bought 2 I was totally sold on both, so I _*highly *_recommend folks jump all over this deal.

You can make full mockups with just those two libraries, super easy to mix, everything. Don't walk, run.


----------



## RandomComposer (Dec 3, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> Oh my gosh, 500 US for Met Ark 1 and 2? I just paid over 700 two months ago...no way I could have foreseen this. Bumming.


Yeah I don't really understand, OT said that they weren't doing sales in order to avoid screwing over loyal customers. Then they choose to suddenly dish out large sales without warning, thereby screwing over loyal customers


----------



## cosmodave29 (Dec 3, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I personally first bought Ark 1 and was kind of bummed out with it because I felt I already had a lot of the content in other libraries. Once I bought 2 I was totally sold on both, so I _*highly *_recommend folks jump all over this deal.
> 
> You can make full mockups with just those two libraries, super easy to mix, everything. Don't walk, run.


I've actually really been digging Ark 2 these days. Lovely choral sounds, the brass are phenomenal and the strings are great. It was underused by me in the first year of owning it but I've been on projects now that demand this kind of sound and I'm eternally thankful I jumped on it when I did.


----------



## JonSolo (Dec 3, 2018)

Easy decision. Wow. Great offering.


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 3, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> Oh my gosh, 500 US for Met Ark 1 and 2? I just paid over 700 two months ago...no way I could have foreseen this. Bumming.



Not suggesting__ "_misery loves company_"  __ but experienced exactly what you posted …. not so long ago. 
Jumped at almost every 'deal' running every few days in Dec (_noted source_) and then Jan, a big blast over at NI for everything _ $200. less. 
Each purchaser doesn't really care if it's few days, or few months ….. just not cool

Hang in there. More of this likely coming and you can hopefully be on the other side.


----------



## cadenzajon (Dec 3, 2018)

For those considering OSR, I ran across the following list of articulations which is much more thorough than is currently presented on the product page at orchestraltools.com:
http://www.orchestraltools.com/downloads/ARTICULATION_CHART.pdf

Caveat is that this list may have been from version 1.0, and the more recent updates (2.0 came out in 2012-ish I think?) could now include more offerings.


----------



## Brian Nowak (Dec 3, 2018)

RandomComposer said:


> Yeah I don't really understand, OT said that they weren't doing sales in order to avoid screwing over loyal customers. Then they choose to suddenly dish out large sales without warning, thereby screwing over loyal customers



Yeah I honestly wonder what the hell is up. I realize that the economy changes and prices have to change with it. But they just kept up the perception that they wouldn't cut prices like this, and then immediately turned around and without any warning just pulled the rug out.

It ouchies quite a bit.


----------



## brek (Dec 3, 2018)

Inspire 1 was my gateway drug into modern sample libraries. It was great when I got, but I've moved on to bigger and better things and rarely use it anymore. I still think it's a fantastic library, especially at this price.

This is a mockup of March of the Resistance I made using Inspire 1:


----------



## reids (Dec 3, 2018)

VSL is where the real professionals go. The best instruments, software, and never depreciates. People complain sometimes that VSL is expensive, but you see its some of the best VI you can buy.


----------



## charlieclouser (Dec 3, 2018)

Well, this one stings just a little. I took advantage of the sale at the OT website, and in the process bought a couple of items that were NOT on sale, figuring... "Why not? It's not like the OT stuff goes on blowout sale all the time, or ever, really..."

So what this kind of chain of events has taught me (or, rather, reinforced my normal way of thinking) is this:

I will never buy anything unless it's on some insane half-price (or better) sale. 

Why bother? We've seen that even the high-price stalwarts in the industry eventually cave to pressure / competition / FOMO and, sooner or later, EVERYTHING goes on sale. 

So we seem to have arrived at the point that the developers have all been dreading - everyone knows that almost every product will be at half-price sooner or later, so the only time I'll pay full pop is when a product is directly relevant to a project that's due in two weeks. When it comes to just stocking my pantry, these are all canned goods and can be bought in bulk when the price is on blowout.


----------



## Kony (Dec 3, 2018)

RandomComposer said:


> Yeah I don't really understand, OT said that they weren't doing sales in order to avoid screwing over loyal customers. Then they choose to suddenly dish out large sales without warning, thereby screwing over loyal customers


It ain't great for loyal customers and I know after having been shafted by OT in the past - and it shows OT may not care if they get loads of "whoopee bargain" comments from first-time buyers....

Imagine offering a promo sale, then getting contacted by a loyal customer (within 30 mins of purchase) that the customer had been clumsy and forgotten to add a voucher code when buying so missed out on the discount, and then telling that customer "bad luck"....


----------



## Kony (Dec 3, 2018)

charlieclouser said:


> When it comes to just stocking my pantry, these are all canned goods and can be bought in bulk when the price is on blowout.


Amen


----------



## Inceptic (Dec 3, 2018)

Well at least now we know why the Arks weren't on sale for Black Friday, lol. 

But seriously, if Ark 1 and 2 is available for $500, why don't they offer a $100 cross-grade if you own one of the Arks already?


----------



## reids (Dec 3, 2018)

charlieclouser said:


> Well, this one stings just a little. I took advantage of the sale at the OT website, and in the process bought a couple of items that were NOT on sale, figuring... "Why not? It's not like the OT stuff goes on blowout sale all the time, or ever, really..."
> 
> So what this kind of chain of events has taught me (or, rather, reinforced my normal way of thinking) is this:
> 
> ...



VSL never have even half off on their main libraries. Sometimes their software goes on sale and such, but most is about around 25% for their libraries. Keep in mind some of their libraries are almost around 10 years old...and still going way strong.


----------



## charlieclouser (Dec 3, 2018)

reids said:


> VSL never have even half off on their main libraries. Sometimes their software goes on sale and such, but most is about around 25% for their libraries. Keep in mind some of their libraries are almost around 10 years old...and still going way strong.



Yeah, I was generalizing a bit in my earlier post. I have a bunch of VSL stuff but it was all either bought on sale and/or with vouchers for reduced prices. I think the only product I bought at full pop from them was VEPro and Appassionata Strings - and that was many years ago.

And I realize that Spitfire has sales, but it's rarely (never?) a full-on half-price deal. But it really seems that more of the first-tier developers are doing sales when they never did before, even if the half-price deals are reserved for products that are older or about to be made obsolete by newer products. The second-tier developers seem to rotate through the sales, and sooner or later the half-price (or even better) pricing comes around on the products you want. Down in the trenches of the third-tier, it's a freaking free-for-all in terms of pricing. 

It's the sample-pocalypse!


----------



## Brian Nowak (Dec 3, 2018)

The thing about it is this:

Up until very, VERY recently, OT insisted in emails and in public policy that they wouldn't do this.

Only to turn around and act like they never said it. Brutal for the likes of us who trusted them.

They have to know they've hurt their reputation. I sent them an email expressing this exact sentiment.


----------



## reids (Dec 3, 2018)

Well Christmas sales are meant to be a surprise so anything is fair game. I don't think they could have told you there would be a sale since that's meant to be specially unveiled later for the holidays.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2018)

charlieclouser said:


> Yeah, I was generalizing a bit in my earlier post. I have a bunch of VSL stuff but it was all either bought on sale and/or with vouchers for reduced prices. I think the only product I bought at full pop from them was VEPro and Appassionata Strings - and that was many years ago.
> 
> And I realize that Spitfire has sales, but it's rarely (never?) a full-on half-price deal. But it really seems that more of the first-tier developers are doing sales when they never did before, even if the half-price deals are reserved for products that are older or about to be made obsolete by newer products. The second-tier developers seem to rotate through the sales, and sooner or later the half-price (or even better) pricing comes around on the products you want. Down in the trenches of the third-tier, it's a freaking free-for-all in terms of pricing.
> 
> It's the sample-pocalypse!


Spitfire did give 50% off of Tundra (And Albion One if you are a student) this year, along with some crazy sales prices, including this BF. BUT, they explained it as their 10th Anniversary. So then the question is, once this year is over, will the sales be as low, or will they go back to "you are lucky if we give you 35% off" sales. 

NI did a lot of crazy sales with companies that use the NKS this year. I got the impression they were going to be one-off type sales. So it could be this is it for OT. And? I'm not complaining even if I did lose out on one company's great deal because I had most of their stuff already. I got enough good deals from them in the prior sales not to be too upset. 

But I do commiserate with those who paid full price recently for the Arks, only to have them go on sale. It is very frustrating to see the sale of things you paid double the price for and feeling lied to.


----------



## reids (Dec 3, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Spitfire did give 50% off of Tundra (And Albion One if you are a student) this year, along with some crazy sales prices, including this BF. BUT, they explained it as their 10th Anniversary. So then the question is, once this year is over, will the sales be as low, or will they go back to "you are lucky if we give you 35% off" sales.
> 
> NI did a lot of crazy sales with companies that use the NKS this year. I got the impression they were going to be one-off type sales. So it could be this is it for OT. And? I'm not complaining even if I did lose out on one company's great deal because I had most of their stuff already. I got enough good deals from them in the prior sales not to be too upset.
> 
> But I do commiserate with those who paid full price recently for the Arks, only to have them go on sale. It is very frustrating to see the sale of things you paid double the price for and feeling lied to.



Besides BF and student, that was like a random 1-2 day flash sale in the year for 1 product. You could try asking Christian to hike up some more mountains to maybe offer more deals? I believe Charlie has spoken to him before. Who knows. Lol


----------



## charlieclouser (Dec 3, 2018)

I'm glad I bought the Ark series at the introductory discounts as they rolled out. I'm not all that annoyed at the NI sale price being lower than what I paid, since I've gotten a bunch of use out of them in the years since I bought. But I did buy a couple of things like Inspire just the other day, that were not on sale, but I did get the vouchers which reduced the prices of other things that were not on sale, so all in all it's pretty much a wash. But I can see how some folks who paid full pop for the big boys in the OT series might be less than thrilled to see the prices at NI today.

As to Spitfire, I generally try to buy on introductory discount, which is basically okay by me. Not really all that bummed at any of the companies really, but moving forward I'll be less likely to just spring for things at full price now that even the titans of the industry are offering discounts here and there.


----------



## cosmodave29 (Dec 3, 2018)

reids said:


> VSL is where the real professionals go. The best instruments, software, and never depreciates. People complain sometimes that VSL is expensive, but you see its some of the best VI you can buy.


Wrong. Pros do use VSL but it's not like OT isn't in most film composers' arsenals in some way, shape or form.


----------



## tim727 (Dec 3, 2018)

Fitz said:


> I own SF Brass, Strings, SCS, HZP, Wotan Choirs and few other libraries.
> 
> Will I benefit from anything in Met 1 or 3 that I can't already to in what I own? I was waiting to pick these libraries up but I'm curious if anyone thinks its worth getting if I already own and use a lot of Spitfire stuff. This sale seems really good.



Out of the libraries you mention that you already own, I only have Wotan. That being said, I know enough about the others to know that the absolutely insanely gorgeous choirs in Met Ark 1 are something that you will most certainly benefit from. They are by far the best sounding choirs I've ever heard and I know that many on here will agree with me on that point. They're not overly flexible since they don't give you a lot of control over the syllables used, etc. ... but their sound quality is so high that within a couple minutes you forget about all that and simply enjoy the exquisite sound. They are a go-to for me for any epic or orchestral track.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 3, 2018)

I am pretty bummed about paying over 700 for Met Ark 2 and now this. But I'm happy for people will benefit.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2018)

Now back to the decision-making. I only own BWW that I got on BF and Time Macro - why didn't they do a $1,000 takes it all deal? 

I don't need Sphere or the pianos. I probably don't need string runs - I have SonoKinetic's ostinado strings. I'm sure I have runs somewhere. I do have 8Dio's Caged that covers some of the Ark 3 stuff. And I recently picked up VS's Smart Orchestra for pretty cheap as I bought the SE 1 bundle in a prior sale. So I may not need Inspire. Well, I don't NEED any of it. But I see why people like the Arks. 

Okay, more videos....


----------



## tim727 (Dec 3, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Now back to the decision-making. I only own BWW that I got on BF and Time Macro - why didn't they do a $1,000 takes it all deal?
> 
> I don't need Sphere or the pianos. I probably don't need string runs - I have SonoKinetic's ostinado strings. I'm sure I have runs somewhere. I do have 8Dio's Caged that covers some of the Ark 3 stuff. And I recently picked up VS's Smart Orchestra for pretty cheap as I bought the SE 1 bundle in a prior sale. So I may not need Inspire. Well, I don't NEED any of it. But I see why people like the Arks.
> 
> Okay, more videos....



I think the Arks are some of the most universally beloved libs out there. If you don't have them and you compose orchestral/soundtrack/epic music IMO they're a no-brainer.


----------



## reids (Dec 3, 2018)

cosmodave29 said:


> Wrong. Pros do use VSL but it's not like OT isn't in most film composers' arsenals in some way, shape or form.


Actually, I am still correct. I didn't say that VSL is the only one professionals use, obviously. VSL has the most extensive list of advanced articulations for their libraries and is also the lightest on space and resources...no argument there. It is highly efficient and realistic given its small footprint. And also, professionals have very little time to spare, so it is a very useful, efficient and functional library. No library is perfect on every category.


----------



## Zhao Shen (Dec 3, 2018)

I will say that it was a poor move by OT to ever imply that they won't run sales and that it is understandably a bit of a sour taste for some because of that, but here's the deal.

Company perspective - a company wants to make money. You release a product, and as soon as you feel like you have sold to enough of the people who are willing to buy your product at full price, you do a sale to bring in money from those who aren't. Makes sense.

Consumer perspective - you want to buy that product. If you buy it, you are making the statement that you believe the product is worth the amount of money you paid for it. At that point, you should logically have 0 investment in the future price of the product. You might feel worse if you lost out on a sale, but that's purely by contrast and wishful thinking, and nothing about your personal situation has changed - you still decided to value the product at the price you paid, and had the sale not happened, you'd be perfectly happy.


----------



## cosmodave29 (Dec 3, 2018)

reids said:


> Actually, I am still correct. I didn't say that VSL is the only one professionals use, obviously. VSL has the most extensive list of advanced articulations for their libraries and is also the lightest on space and resources...no argument there. It is highly efficient and realistic given its small footprint. And also, professionals have very little time to spare, so it is a very useful, efficient and functional library. No library is perfect on every category.


You said VSL is where the "real" professionals go. Hence why I responded with my post. 

VSL is good but I don't think their current line up is anything revolutionary and if anything, is a step behind the rest of the pack (this coming from someone who has spent thousands of $$$ on their products). How many people are using Syncron Strings in finished product recordings? Look at John Powell's LPX screenshots and you won't find much if any VSL in there amidst Spitfire Audio, Orchestral Tools, EW and other developers stuff.


----------



## cosmodave29 (Dec 3, 2018)

I can see if someone just spent $$$ on OT stuff last month and is confronted with this new sale. Fair enough. But for people who were early adopters to complain is a little much. Did you make money using the libraries you bought 2-3 years ago from OT? I have and I'm sure plenty of others have too. That's the cost of jumping in early. I spent over $1200 on EWHS Diamond and now you get the whole orchestra for $400 or something crazy like that. This stuff just happens.


----------



## NoamL (Dec 3, 2018)

Zhao Shen said:


> Consumer perspective - you want to buy that product. If you buy it, you are making the statement that you believe the product is worth the amount of money you paid for it. At that point, you should logically have 0 investment in the future price of the product.



Mostly agreed, but...

You might have some investment if you believe a high price helps keep the samples from becoming the "next EWQLSO," where everyone gets that sound and it's no longer special.


----------



## reids (Dec 3, 2018)

@charlieclouser Hey Charlie, I would imagine that the Spitfire products would have much of your orchestral needs taken care of well and assume you have a lot of their products since you were featured on some of their programs. What makes the OT libraries stand out to you compared to the similar Spitfire offerings, or is it just have more sonic palettes in your never-ending arsenal? Lol.


----------



## reids (Dec 3, 2018)

cosmodave29 said:


> You said VSL is where the "real" professionals go. Hence why I responded with my post.
> 
> VSL is good but I don't think their current line up is anything revolutionary and if anything, is a step behind the rest of the pack (this coming from someone who has spent thousands of $$$ on their products). How many people are using Syncron Strings in finished product recordings? Look at John Powell's LPX screenshots and you won't find much if any VSL in there amidst Spitfire Audio, Orchestral Tools, EW and other developers stuff.



Just because it doesn't show up in the final recording does not mean it is not a professional library or professional tool. Those are two different things. And real industry professionals prefer not to use sample libraries in their finished product recordings unless they are after a slightly synthetic hyper real sound or something that the orchestra cannot physically do. They need fast, efficient libraries and tools for their orchestral mock ups. HZ uses samples because it has unique qualities he likes and can tweak. For someone like John Williams, not many libraries can keep up with him with his use of articulations like VSL can. This is where VSL shines and why industry people use it. The real orchestra can never be replaced by VI which is why they always choose to record the real thing and VSL matches and catches up with all their articulation needs. Other libraries can limit you due to their limited articulations while VSL covers in detail (in regards to the orchestra).


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 3, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I don't really think of Ark 3 as a percussion library, though it has a lot of percussion in it (but I seldom use it). I think of it more in terms of the moniker, "beating orchestra," that is, for quickly mocking up repeated orchestra hits and ostinati, and especially for atonal effects and sharp clusters.
> 
> Its Full Orchestra Marcato multis are also very fun for right out of the box completely over-the-top epic blasts. Watch Daniel James's walkthrough to get a good feel for this side of it.




THX @ jbuhler ….. your text comments get straight to my post and really changed my perspective on ArkK3 …. _but not in any negative way whatsoever_. Just shifted focus away from perc.

( _ I appreciate the video reference, but 3 hours + of that is far beyond my tolerances ) Likely some can distill relevant points in several minutes. I was unaware of that Video and may cut into (12-14) bite-size chunks._ )


----------



## charlieclouser (Dec 3, 2018)

reids said:


> @charlieclouser Hey Charlie, I would imagine that the Spitfire products would have much of your orchestral needs taken care of well and assume you have a lot of their products since you were featured on some of their programs. What makes the OT libraries stand out to you compared to the similar Spitfire offerings, or is it just have more sonic palettes in your never-ending arsenal? Lol.



Never enough! Actually, I am always on the search for more / better / different versions of my favorite articulations - sul ponticello tremolo, flautando, harmonics, and all the shorts you can throw at me. They all seem to "speak" differently, and when I'm in the middle of a cue I wind up scrolling through them all going, "no... no...no...no... oooh, there we go!" Especially with the spiccato / short articulations - I love some of the things that 8dio does like Feathered Spiccato and their new Century Ostinato library. When I'm trying to get a good chunk-chunk going I wind up layering a bunch of different libraries, going all the way back to Sonic Implants which has a great scraping attack on the spiccatos, alongside mid-era stuff like LASS, all the way up to current stuff. To me the various libraries are sort of like guitar pedals - each one is just a bit different to the next and you don't know which ones to use until you're in the middle of the cue.

Of course, I also will buy just about anything that has the words Aleatoric, Ligeti, Clusters, or Dissonant in the description! 

I love orchestral effects samples, even if they're not "playable" and are just a grab bag of one-shot samples. I've gotten so much mileage out of the Symphobia one-shots, but I hear them on everything from South Park to Adult Swim, so I feel a little hesitant to keep relying on them. Hence the endless purchasing of Orch FX.


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 3, 2018)

_From a very different place_ …… NI Marketing seems to be in minor cannibalizing mode …. 
Strong value (_ pour mo_i ) for Updating from K11U to K12U ? K12U Collection …. at $599.
Today ( surprise ) Arks Bundle @ $500. 
Which 'one' am I gonna EAT ?


----------



## CT (Dec 3, 2018)

cosmodave29 said:


> You said VSL is where the "real" professionals go. Hence why I responded with my post.




If using VSL is a requirement to be a "real professional," then I don't ever want to be a "real professional."


Sincerely,
Someone perpetually trying to sell an old VSL library here on VI-Control and who clearly doesn't understand how to be a good salesman


----------



## reids (Dec 3, 2018)

charlieclouser said:


> Never enough! Actually, I am always on the search for more / better / different versions of my favorite articulations - sul ponticello tremolo, flautando, harmonics, and all the shorts you can throw at me. They all seem to "speak" differently, and when I'm in the middle of a cue I wind up scrolling through them all going, "no... no...no...no... oooh, there we go!" Especially with the spiccato / short articulations - I love some of the things that 8dio does like Feathered Spiccato and their new Century Ostinato library. When I'm trying to get a good chunk-chunk going I wind up layering a bunch of different libraries, going all the way back to Sonic Implants which has a great scraping attack on the spiccatos, alongside mid-era stuff like LASS, all the way up to current stuff. To me the various libraries are sort of like guitar pedals - each one is just a bit different to the next and you don't know which ones to use until you're in the middle of the cue.
> 
> Of course, I also will buy just about anything that has the words Aleatoric, Ligeti, Clusters, or Dissonant in the description!
> 
> I love orchestral effects samples, even if they're not "playable" and are just a grab bag of one-shot samples. I've gotten so much mileage out of the Symphobia one-shots, but I hear them on everything from South Park to Adult Swim, so I feel a little hesitant to keep relying on them. Hence the endless purchasing of Orch FX.



@charlieclouser I hear ya and understand that completely. The aleatoric libraries can be great if it also allows you some some flexibility to be creative and tweak it so not just to play the same phrases over and over which can start to sound identical in your tracks as well as others using the same libraries. I agree.

I do remember we both decided to go through with the Private Labs Scream aleatoric libraries a while back. The developer for that said the same similar spiel and promised that the libraries are exclusive, limited to 25 licenses only and will never be resold. Then he bumped it to around over 100 licenses, and made a bundle offer for all the strings, brass, and woodwinds for $300.00-$350.00. He then shutdown the business, sold the libraries to 8dio to be repackaged, and disappeared. Then I just saw it go on sale recently for around $35.00 (another 10% off w/ coupon) for the entire bundle that was originally sold for $300/$350. That don't seem right. Not just about the pricing, but he did not keep his word to people who invested in his company and vision.


----------



## charlieclouser (Dec 3, 2018)

reids said:


> @charlieclouser I hear ya and understand that completely. The aleatoric libraries can be great if it also allows you some some flexibility to be creative and tweak it so not just to play the same phrases over and over which can start to sound identical in your tracks as well as others using the same libraries. I agree.
> 
> I do remember we both decided to go through with the Private Labs Scream aleatoric libraries a while back. The developer for that said the same similar spiel and promised that the libraries are exclusive, limited to 25 licenses only and will never be resold. Then he bumped it to around over 100 licenses, and made a bundle offer for all the strings, brass, and woodwinds for $300.00-$350.00. He then shutdown the business, sold the libraries to 8dio to be repackaged, and disappeared. Then I just saw it go on sale recently for around $35.00 (another 10% off w/ coupon) for the entire bundle that was originally sold for $300/$350. That don't seem right. Not just about the pricing, but he did not keep his word to people who invested in his company and vision.



Yeah, but what are ya gonna do? It is what it is. I try to think of all these library purchases NOT as "investments", but rather as "consumables" - like how a builder would think of a new jackhammer as an investment, but thirty tubes of caulk are consumables. I know this analogy is not quite accurate, as the caulk would be billed back to the client while the jackhammer wouldn't, but thinking of it this way helps ease my pain when I look at my PayPal statements!


----------



## AllanH (Dec 3, 2018)

Pretty remarkable pricing for OT. It's probably facilitated by Native Instruments pushing NKS and possibly forgoing some of their licensing fees. I feel the sirens singing...


----------



## reids (Dec 3, 2018)

AllanH said:


> Pretty remarkable pricing for OT. It's probably facilitated by Native Instruments pushing NKS and possibly forgoing some of their licensing fees. I feel the sirens singing...


I hear a different kind of siren for those early birds rolling over on the floor in agony right now. Lol.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> _From a very different place_ …… NI Marketing seems to be in minor cannibalizing mode ….
> Strong value (_ pour mo_i ) for Updating from K11U to K12U ? K12U Collection …. at $599.
> Today ( surprise ) Arks Bundle @ $500.
> Which 'one' am I gonna EAT ?


Wait to update KU. They have it at 50% off in June, so I would wait until then.


----------



## richard kurek (Dec 3, 2018)

cadenzajon said:


> How is Orchestral Grands? I have Galaxy D and True Keys bundle (nice for solo work), but nothing recorded in a room with orchestral positioning, and I don't seem to obtain that "sound" just by throwing a reverb at it. Nearly all the rest of my template is in Teldex.


basically its for orchestral work not really stand alone, plus only sustain pedal very basic adjustments


----------



## HelixK (Dec 3, 2018)

All 3 Arks for $825 

Deal of the year right here!

There's no reason, other than *really *needing a specific sound for a job, to be an early adopter. All libraries, no exception, will eventually be sold for peanuts. It's not like we don't have enough tools to keep us busy while waiting.

That was my reasoning when Afflatus was announced and I'm glad I saved $800 (tax incl.) for better deals like this one now


----------



## JT (Dec 3, 2018)

How much HD space will ARks 1 & 2 take up?


----------



## reids (Dec 3, 2018)

How would you say MA 1 compares to Majestica (minus choirs)? Are there any other alternatives to libraries like these?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 3, 2018)

JT said:


> How much HD space will ARks 1 & 2 take up?


According to OT website about 130Gb (75GB + 54GB).


----------



## whiskers (Dec 3, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Now back to the decision-making. I only own BWW that I got on BF and Time Macro - why didn't they do a $1,000 takes it all deal?
> 
> I don't need Sphere or the pianos. I probably don't need string runs - I have SonoKinetic's ostinado strings. I'm sure I have runs somewhere. I do have 8Dio's Caged that covers some of the Ark 3 stuff. And I recently picked up VS's Smart Orchestra for pretty cheap as I bought the SE 1 bundle in a prior sale. So I may not need Inspire. Well, I don't NEED any of it. But I see why people like the Arks.
> 
> Okay, more videos....


Let me know what your consensus is...I'm leaning towards Ark bundle, but we'll see. I like some of the softer demos of both Arks and Inspire. hmm...seems to good a deal to pass up on :3


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Let me know what your consensus is...I'm leaning towards Ark bundle, but we'll see. I like some of the softer demos of both Arks and Inspire. hmm...seems to good a deal to pass up on :3


I'm moving towards all 3 Arks. Inspire sounds great, but I have enough to cover this between HWO, VS Smart Orchestra, and Albion 1 & 5. I also have the Project Sams. I have way too much stuff.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 3, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> I'm moving towards all 3 Arks. Inspire sounds great, but I have enough to cover this between HWO, VS Smart Orchestra, and Albion 1 & 5. I also have the Project Sams. I have way too much stuff.


Thanks :3

 I have TIME MACRO, and NI's Symphony series. Probably could get something out of both inspire and Arks, but I'm getting the sense Arks have more versatility and Dynamics. Plus those choirs...unf...


Idk about Ark 3 though.

Thanks for your input. Cheers.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2018)

I think Inspire might be good if you need a laptop orchestra for traveling. Kind of why I bought the VS SE and then the Smart Orchestra. My laptop was freezing with HWO. But the VS SE worked great. Otherwise I think the Arks are more useful.

I was watching Daniel James Ark 3 and he was doing amazing things with almost no work. Of course, that was Daniel James.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 3, 2018)

Watching the Ark patch walkthroughs, it's killing me whenever the new OT voice-over guy says "timber" and "Wagner".

EDIT: Looked into it a little and perhaps I am wrong about "timbre", and it can be pronounced either way.


----------



## SImonK (Dec 3, 2018)

Dear Comrades, I would love your advice here!

Should I buy the Arks if I already have:

OT Berlin Strings & Woodwinds
Spitfire CS, Hans Zimmer strings, Albion V
CSS + CSS solo
ALL of cinesamples libraries 
ALL NI libraries 

Thank you!!!


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Watching the Ark patch walkthroughs, it's killing me whenever the new OT voice-over guy says "timber."


He doesn't want the weight of the Ark to fall on you. 

I saw a lot of complaints about that in the comments.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 3, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Watching the Ark patch walkthroughs, it's killing me whenever the new OT voice-over guy says "timber" and "Wagner".
> 
> EDIT: Looked into it a little and perhaps I am wrong about "timbre", and it can be pronounced either way.


If it's any consolation I still accidentally spell it tambre :/


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2018)

NoamL said:


> Seriously and without a hint of melodrama, this is a portent of the VI-apocalypse. Many people predicted it, well, now it's shifting gradually from prediction to reality. All of those "we don't like sales, our high prices assure high quality & exclusivity" promises just can't hold up anymore against all the competition that entered the market in the last 3 years. Just like EastWest a sampling generation ago, being forced into cutthroat sales for the Hollywood lineup by competition from Spitfire and OT.
> 
> And what about the new developers? I don't know how many more orchestral libraries can actually get off the ground. People won't invest in full orchestras - especially the winds and percussion - unless they already like and own the strings and brass... it's dumb but it's the reality... and the competition to sell strings and brass right now is vicious as hell. I'm worried for SoundIron's new orchestra (Hyperion) and Performance Samples (Con Moto). I think Wallbank's orchestra (Cinematic Studio) will still sell because it's designed and priced with a sort of built-in assumption of the apocalypse that's unfolding, and he hooked a lot of customers with the strings.
> 
> The message is loud and clear though. The days of selling a single orchestral department (especially strings or brass) for $500+, or single instruments for the equivalent add-it-up price, are _over forever_. Kind of amazing considering Hollywood Brass debuted not 8 years ago at $800.



I completely agree. 

Its a niche market to begin with. If you only focus on pros making the price too high, you can't really make that much profit. So you'd have to also target amateurs/hobbyists too.

Unless of course, you go be-spoke and set a price tag of thousands. 
(I've read Spitfire did a bespoke series and had a really expensive price tag and had to be payed upfront, before they went in to development. Apologies in advance if I got something/facts wrong though)


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 3, 2018)

NoamL said:


> Just like EastWest a sampling generation ago, being forced into cutthroat sales for the Hollywood lineup by competition from Spitfire and OT.


If EastWest is a harbinger, down the line we'd eventually be looking at Orchestral Tools Cloud and Spitfire Creative Cloud. Which would put these prices in perspective.

Here's something else that crossed my mind: Time Macro premiered with an intro price tag that seemed notably cheaper than OTs preceding libraries, to me at least. I wonder if it was a trial balloon of sorts, or if maybe the sales went up in a way that encouraged them to change their pricing strategy.


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Here's something else that crossed my mind: Time Macro premiered with an intro price tag that seemed notably cheaper than OTs preceding libraries, to me at least. I wonder if it was a trial balloon of sorts, or if maybe the sales went up in a way that encouraged them to change their pricing strategy.


You know I hadn't thought about that, but it makes a lot of sense considering Time Macro is a smaller, more focused library. I couldn't even begin to speculate what's next in the 'Time' series, but there's a 95% chance I'll be getting it if the price is in line with the first one!


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 3, 2018)

So I just listened to Chris Sui's run through of Inspire 2 and though it sounds beautiful, I definitely don't need it. I think I will get the 2 Arks and think about the 3rd for a little bit. There are more articulations and options. 

To me, Inspire is limited, which makes sense. If I didn't already have similar stuff and stuff that covers more, I would get it. The strings are lovely as are the winds. But I think the combinations would annoy me after a while, as they aren't what I would combine. I have that problem with other combination libraries.


----------



## brek (Dec 3, 2018)

This sale inspired me to fiddle around some with Inspire. Some thoughts/questions as I consider purchasing an Ark or two:

The hall sound is really over the top. I imagine different mics in Ark would alleviate that, but still retaining quite a bit of it in the close mics, a la Spitfire? 

Don't love the legatos. Maybe that has to do with the lack of definition from the mics. I think someone posted some legato samples from Ark the other day which didn't really blow me away either.


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 3, 2018)

brek said:


> The hall sound is really over the top. I imagine different mics in Ark would alleviate that, but still retaining quite a bit of it in the close mics, a la Spitfire?


The lack of mic flexibility is the biggest downside in the Inspires. But it's a plus if you're like me and you just don't want to think about that sometimes.



brek said:


> Don't love the legatos. Maybe that has to do with the lack of definition from the mics. I think someone posted some legato samples from Ark the other day which didn't really blow me away either.


Legatos from which instrument in which Ark?


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 3, 2018)

brek said:


> Don't love the legatos. Maybe that has to do with the lack of definition from the mics. I think someone posted some legato samples from Ark the other day which didn't really blow me away either.



Could you point out where I could listen to those examples?
I don't have any kind of library of this type. (All-in-one type of library like Arks and Albions)
So I'm somewhat interested in this.

I've been watching the walkthroughs and the high strings don't sound convincing, but the low strings are really good. I like that grumpy sound. (same with the "dig shorts" featured in Spitfires strings. But Arks also have it in the sustains too)
But when I want that grumpy low strings sustain sound, I would want a good portamento/legato/slur sound with it.

EDITED: When I said "high strings" don't sound convincing, I was watching the Ark1 walk through. But the high strings in Ark2 sound beautiful.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 4, 2018)

Well the one thing we have learnt is that there are no sacred cows in this industry.

What surprises me about Orchestral Tools is not that they have changed their sale policy, but that they have done so in such a dramatic fashion, with such deep discounts and with one offer after another so quickly.

I was simply gobsmacked when the whole Berlin Series went on such a deep discount. Now this.

For some reason I think this sale, more than any other, will change the way I make purchasing decisions in the future.

I'm glad I'm not a developer.....

(Oh, and if you don't have the Arks, buy them. Especially I & II.)


----------



## Kony (Dec 4, 2018)

All of the recent OT sales will make sense if Ark 4 is released next week


----------



## JeffvR (Dec 4, 2018)

*Do you ever do sales?*
We believe in providing a stable value to our customers so we do not participate in blanket sale frenzies on our line-up. If you purchase an Orchestral Tools collection, you can be sure to have a stable value. We will not slash prices by 50% every few weeks, essentially punishing our loyal users for trusting us with a new collection.
To reward bravery when purchasing a recently released collection, we always have Introductory Pricing for all new collections. From time to time we will have special deals on specific collections or lines, often as some sort of "Theme".
Sometimes, we will also have Pre-Order Pricing in effect until a new collection is released. This serves as an additional thank you for users that trust us to deliver a great product on time.

These pre-order/intro deals are the best price you will get on an Orchestral Tools collection for a good while after release.

*What about Promotions?*
We very, very rarely do bigger promotions on some of our more niche collections. These usually do not apply to the core Berlin Series, though.

*What about Loyalty Discounts?*
We generally have "indirect" loyalty discounts by means of pre-order/intro pricing. If you receive a special discount via email, please note that these discounts must be used during purchase and may be subject to an expiry date (for example until the pre-order ends). It is not possible to apply discounts in retrospect. Read http://www.helpdesk.orchestraltools.com/hd_voucher_guidelines.html (Voucher Guidelines) for details.

*What about discounts or bundles?*
Similar to our very cautious use of sales, we are not a big fan of discounts. They punish loyal users and decrease their investment.
We do, however, of course have http://www.helpdesk.orchestraltools.com/hd_educational_discounts.html (EDU Discounts) for everyone who qualifies as well as provisions for http://www.helpdesk.orchestraltools.com/hd_additional_licenses.html (Additional Licenses).
All available bundles are listed on our website. If you have any questions, http://www.helpdesk.orchestraltools.com/hd_getting_help.html (contact us).


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Dec 4, 2018)

Clearly, the should have edited this section a few weeks ago. But hey, until very recently that's exactly how they did it.

I personally don't blame them for adapting to a market that's changing really fast.

And on a side note I'm getting a bit tired of the constant whining of the "loyal customers" as soon as anything happens...


----------



## blougui (Dec 4, 2018)

There's (shouldn,( be)no such thing as "loyal customers". Especially if one buys at introductory offer : it's not buying loyally but taking advantage of a lower price.

Considering this amazing offer, it's Native instruments induced, as Sonicouture explained a few months back. They couldn't get into the details though. I imagine NI cut the premium they ask dev and companies to get the Player Compatible option/licence, for starter. 

I'm confident we're not going to see such insane bargains in the next future, like we saw with Sonokinetic or Sonicouture - though for OT or Sonokinetic, I cannot see how hundred of euros of *unresalable products* are such a good bargain but that's another story.


----------



## ag75 (Dec 4, 2018)

I want to take advantage of this deal! Would the string runs library be worth it if I already own cinestrings runs library?


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 4, 2018)

blougui said:


> Considering this amazing offer, it's Native instruments induced, as Sonicouture explained a few months back. They couldn't get into the details though. I imagine NI cut the premium they ask dev and companies to get the Player Compatible option/licence, for starter.



I haven't thought of that, but maybe thats also a possibility.
They did a 40% off with the main series, but they might have been able to go even further because of the license fee or whatever like you said.

I remember there was a similar deal for the Project SAM series where they teamed up with NI.


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 4, 2018)

Kony said:


> All of the recent OT sales will make sense if Ark 4 is released next week


Or a totally new series...


----------



## HelixK (Dec 4, 2018)

You either need a library now or you don't. After many impulse buys, I finally learned my lesson and that's the only reason I can think of for being an early adopter.

This is a business first and foremost, any "loyalty rewards" are part of a maketing strategy to get the most sales out of the initial release frenzy. All libraries, no exception, will be avaiable at a lower price at some point in the future.

Things have changed, we're way past 2005 and VSL monopoly. In 2019 even the small developer can change the game. Look at Performance Samples. Don't blame OT or anyone else for adapting to this new reality.

Solely focusing on costs may not reflect the real value of a product. I'm happy I've waited for the Arks bundle, but I'm also happy for buying Berlin stuff at full price and sure enough those libraries already paid themselves over and over again.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 4, 2018)

galactic orange said:


> Or a totally new series...


Or nothing right now, but NI just asked them to do this sale and they figured it'd net them a lot of new customers at this price. I know I'm potentially one...


----------



## NYC Composer (Dec 4, 2018)

Meanwhile, Glory Days (a library I considered strongly) is going for around $600 at the INTRO price.

I can wait.


----------



## tim727 (Dec 4, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> Meanwhile, Glory Days (a library I considered strongly) is going for around $600 at the INTRO price.
> 
> I can wait.



It'll prob be 50% off next BF.


----------



## HBen (Dec 4, 2018)

OK, this is what I expected. Great sales, good price.

I have bought all of Orchestral Tools Products during their sales in 2018, from Spring sales for all Berlin expansions, and November sales for Berlin Main Libraries, and now this December sales for almost the rest of all.

That's a lot of spending, but it's a great year to obtain the entire collection.


----------



## HBen (Dec 4, 2018)

Please note, after I have placed my order, I found that The Orchestral Grands Piano is now a free Kontakt Player library and NKS-ready, it is no longer a KONTAKT Full library.

I believe NKS-ready special is the main reason for this OT sales in December, just like Soniccouture Collection sales earlier this year. So it does not occur very often I guess, seize the chance and carpe diem, everyone!


----------



## brek (Dec 4, 2018)

Raphioli said:


> Could you point out where I could listen to those examples?
> I don't have any kind of library of this type. (All-in-one type of library like Arks and Albions)
> So I'm somewhat interested in this.
> 
> ...



https://vi-control.net/community/th...r-part-one-strings.76094/page-25#post-4309004


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 4, 2018)

brek said:


> https://vi-control.net/community/th...r-part-one-strings.76094/page-25#post-4309004



Thx brek. 

Yeah, the legatos don't sound good...
I like the sound of the sustains but that doesn't really sound like legatos. 
Some intervals sound like playing a normal sustain patch.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 4, 2018)

HBen said:


> I believe NKS-ready special is the main reason for this OT sales in December, just like Soniccouture Collection sales earlier this year. So it does not occur very often I guess, seize the chance and carpe diem, everyone!



I don't quite understand what you mean. Hardly any of the OT libraries support NKS, in fact I think that the only ones that do are Time Macro and Inspire 2.....


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Dec 4, 2018)

Michael Antrum said:


> I don't quite understand what you mean. Hardly any of the OT libraries support NKS, in fact I think that the only ones that do are Time Macro and Inspire 2.....


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 4, 2018)

HBen said:


> I believe NKS-ready special is the main reason for this OT sales in December, just like Soniccouture Collection sales earlier this year. So it does not occur very often I guess, seize the chance and carpe diem, everyone!





Michael Antrum said:


> I don't quite understand what you mean. Hardly any of the OT libraries support NKS, in fact I think that the only ones that do are Time Macro and Inspire 2.....



One could argue that it in fact takes such a big sale to hammer home that _now_ they are NKS-ready. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to cut through the noise of other releases and sales. And to be honest, I don't even really know what NKS-ready means. Something with the lights on their keyboards maybe?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 4, 2018)

Well I already have all three Arks, Both Inspires, Time Macro, OSR & Symphonic Sphere, so unless they have updated all the other libraries without telling their existing customers, something doesn't seem right here.

I understood that they couldn't make CAPSULE compatible with NKS.

(And if they have managed this, and updated their libraries without notifying their existing customers - that's pretty poor.)

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/something-which-really-bugs-me-with-metropolis-ark.55917/


----------



## Fleer (Dec 4, 2018)

HBen said:


> Please note, after I have placed my order, I found that The Orchestral Grands Piano is now a free Kontakt Player library and NKS-ready, it is no longer a KONTAKT Full library.
> 
> I believe NKS-ready special is the main reason for this OT sales in December, just like Soniccouture Collection sales earlier this year. So it does not occur very often I guess, seize the chance and carpe diem, everyone!


^^^ This. 
NKS and Kontakt Player (library tab).
This is why NI runs the sale and probably charged OT a lower update premium.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 4, 2018)

Michael Antrum said:


> Well I already have all three Arks, Both Inspires, Time Macro, OSR & Symphonic Sphere, so unless they have updated all the other libraries without telling their existing customers, something doesn't seem right here.
> 
> I understood that they couldn't make CAPSULE compatible with NKS.
> 
> (And if they have managed this, and updated their libraries without notifying their existing customers - that's pretty poor.)



Well, you're informed now and I'd imagine all you existing users will get a free update. If not I'd indeed flip my shit in your place. Maybe try entering your existing serial number in the continuata app? Is that how it was originally distributed? Or contact their support?


----------



## Michael Antrum (Dec 4, 2018)

If that is the case, then I'm hoping that there will be a patch, rather than having to download all the samples again too.....


----------



## NathanTiemeyer (Dec 4, 2018)

Orchestral string runs is nearing 9 years old. But, I know old samples can still be very valuable, does anyone own this runs library and do you find it worth the purchase?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Here's something else that crossed my mind: Time Macro premiered with an intro price tag that seemed notably cheaper than OTs preceding libraries, to me at least. I wonder if it was a trial balloon of sorts, or if maybe the sales went up in a way that encouraged them to change their pricing strategy.


In one of his videos around Black Friday Christian Henson noted that the first Black Friday sale Spitfire ran was truly eye-opening for him. When you are dealing with a product that has a marginal cost of the bandwidth of the download pricing to increase volume will nearly always beat pricing to maintain margin. The key is pricing that will ensure initial costs are recovered (and an income stream that ensues you can cover fixed costs like payroll). A secondary consideration is scarcity that promises those who have the product something relatively distinctive. The trend seems to be against the latter in the public commercial sphere, though I’m sure there are many semi-private libraries out there that serve this purpose.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 4, 2018)

HBen said:


> Please note, after I have placed my order, I found that The Orchestral Grands Piano is now a free Kontakt Player library and NKS-ready, it is no longer a KONTAKT Full library.
> 
> I believe NKS-ready special is the main reason for this OT sales in December, just like Soniccouture Collection sales earlier this year. So it does not occur very often I guess, seize the chance and carpe diem, everyone!


I think these may all be Kontakt 6 libraries? I had to download the Kontakt 6 player for OT Time Macro. Because anything that can play on the free player should be able to play on the full version. I don't have 6 yet, so I can't test this.


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 4, 2018)

Anybody experienced with a combination of Ark 1 and 2?
I'm looking forward to blend both together and would like if I could also create some more quiet, atmospheric orchestral stuff.
I know that Ark 1 is known for it's brutal force in loudness, but what does the combination with the so called "deeper" brother Ark 2 make possible? Is it still only for badass action trailer hits? Can you even think of creating something peaceful with it at all?


----------



## whiskers (Dec 4, 2018)

Meetyhtan said:


> Anybody experienced with a combination of Ark 1 and 2?
> I'm looking forward to blend both together and would like if I could also create some more quiet, atmospheric orchestral stuff.
> I know that Ark 1 is known for it's brutal force in loudness, but what does the combination with the so called "deeper" brother Ark 2 make possible? Is it still only for badass action trailer hits? Can you even think of creating something peaceful with it at all?


wondering this as well. I like Inspire for it's relative well-roundedness and symphonic sound. Can play both quieter/mellow and more intense passages, but I feel it'd be a bit redundant to what I already have (including Time Macro).

Ark however, seems to offer a lot more. I feel I'd get a lot more use out of 2 vs 1 though. 1 sounds pretty...intense...


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2018)

Meetyhtan said:


> Anybody experienced with a combination of Ark 1 and 2?
> I'm looking forward to blend both together and would like if I could also create some more quiet, atmospheric orchestral stuff.


They blend well and can certainly be used for things other than trailers and epic music. As I said on one of these threads, I think of the Arks more as dark in sound than as epic. They do not have solo instruments and they lack upper woodwinds but otherwise they are quite versatile.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2018)

whiskers said:


> I like Inspire for it's relative well-roundedness and symphonic sound. Can play both quieter/mellow and more intense passages, but I feel it'd be a bit redundant to what I already have (including Time Macro).


I have Inspire 1 and haven’t got much use out of it, tbh. I use the Arks all the time and Time Macro as well. I actually think of Time Macro as Ark 4: it stands in relation to Ark 3 much as Ark 2 stands in relation to Ark 1. It’s also why I don’t think there’s an Ark 4 in the offing this year.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> it stands in relation to Ark 3 much as Ark 2 stands in relation to Ark 1.


Let me add: and just as Ark 2 made Ark 1 more useful, so too I’ve found that Time Macro makes Ark 3 more useful.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 4, 2018)

Meetyhtan said:


> Anybody experienced with a combination of Ark 1 and 2?
> I'm looking forward to blend both together and would like if I could also create some more quiet, atmospheric orchestral stuff.
> I know that Ark 1 is known for it's brutal force in loudness, but what does the combination with the so called "deeper" brother Ark 2 make possible? Is it still only for badass action trailer hits? Can you even think of creating something peaceful with it at all?



You can get softer with Ark 1 and rougher with Ark 2, and plenty of points in between. There are options for taking out the fff in some of the Ark 1 samples, for instance.

Once a person has both and spends concentrated time working with them together you learn just how flexible those libraries can be. The relative ease of mixing...it's just a super convenient variable.

Not necessarily meaning the quoter, but I'm surprised there are so many questions about this sale...dude, get it. You won't regret it.


----------



## erikradbo (Dec 4, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> Not necessarily meaning the quoter, but I'm surprised there are so many questions about this sale...dude, get it. You won't regret it.



I read in another thread that you were quite disappointed with Ark 1, before getting Ark2. Quote: "As disappointed as I was in Ark 1, 2 seems to compensate in every way". Did this change?


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 4, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> Not necessarily meaning the quoter, but I'm surprised there are so many questions about this sale...dude, get it. You won't regret it.



Ok, fine, but if I do regret it, it's 20% your fault . 
Just kidding... 


Is it possible to somehow get the choir sylables to come out in a deterministic order, like reset the sequence by reloading the patch or something like that? The choir is one of the most interesting parts of Ark 1 for me and I'm fine with not being able to pick _each _syllable, but I wouldn't want two versions of the track that I export to have _different _choir syllables. 

I'm almost convinced to buy Ark 1, likely gonna get 2 too (mostly out of fear of regretting to miss something important, though I assume I'd use 1 a lot more), but probably not gonna buy 3 because I don't see myself using much of it.


----------



## Bear Market (Dec 4, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> They blend well and can certainly be used for things other than trailers and epic music. As I said on one of these threads, I think of the Arks more as dark in sound than as epic. They do not have solo instruments and they lack upper woodwinds but otherwise they are quite versatile.



May I ask how you think they blend with other libraries than OT's? Especially considering the fact that many sections in the Arks seem to be recorded with unconventional seatings. For example the Violas patch with V1 to the left and V2 to the right, some low strings patch with cellos seated in between DBs. There are probably more examples but these are the ones I remember from watching OT's walkthrough video. Seems to me like these would be difficult to combine with patches containing instruments that have been recorded in traditional seating? How about the brass? Same thing?

As you see, I'm trying my hardest to find a motivation for not emptying my wallet at NI's site!!


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2018)

Bear Market said:


> May I ask how you think they blend with other libraries than OT's? Especially considering the fact that many sections in the Ark's seem to be recorded with unconventional seatings.


I only have Strings from that Berlin series—but I don't use them that much. I do know the choir from Ark 1 works well with the Berlin Strings. But basically the choirs work well with any of my other libraries. In terms of the orchestral patches, I use the strings the least from the Arks as supplements to other libraries. 

I've not had any issues mixing the brass with Spitfire libraries, and I use the Ark brass a lot.


----------



## Bear Market (Dec 4, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I've not had any issues mixing the brass with Spitfire libraries, and I use the Ark brass a lot.



I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my question, but this is not what I needed to hear at all... now I almost have to buy the Ark bundle. So I take it most brass patches are recorded in traditional seating then?


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 4, 2018)

Bear Market said:


> I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my question, but this is not what I needed to hear at all... now I almost have to buy the Ark bundle. So I take it most brass patches are recorded in traditional seating then?


Can't someone help the man? We need stories of an Ark crushing dreams and ending careers or something like that! There's plenty of negativity to go around at all other times, but where is it when we most need it?


----------



## Lassi Tani (Dec 4, 2018)

Bear Market said:


> I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my question, but this is not what I needed to hear at all... now I almost have to buy the Ark bundle. So I take it most brass patches are recorded in traditional seating then?



Don't buy them. Terrible sound. They don't blend at all with other libraries. Seating is all over the place. They'll instantly crush your dreams and end your career.


I like to keep all the arks just for myself, muahahahaha!


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 4, 2018)

Serious question though, do the Arks have that issue where a sound's position jumps in the stereo field from sample to sample like it does in one 8Dio library that I have (Agitato Sordino)?


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 4, 2018)

erikradbo said:


> I read in another thread that you were quite disappointed with Ark 1, before getting Ark2. Quote: "As disappointed as I was in Ark 1, 2 seems to compensate in every way". Did this change?



I have also mentioned elsewhere that getting Ark 2 completely justified and redeemed my purchase of Ark 1 because the two complemented each other so much. Getting Berlin WWs for me is an eventual no brainer precisely for the same reason. Nice not having to keep mix other developer's libraries in, all the time.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 4, 2018)

You could say Ark 1 and 2 are what I thought Albion ONE was supposed to be a couple of years ago, but wasn't.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 4, 2018)

sekkosiki said:


> I like to keep all the arks just for myself, muahahahaha!



So I guess I just spoiled it for us older OT customers...now all these people will have our libraries! :(
​


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 4, 2018)

Hi folks, I will be reviewing OT's OSR and Sphere very soon, and walk you through the libraries and show what the current updates are like. Stay tuned


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Serious question though, do the Arks have that issue where a sound's position jumps in the stereo field from sample to sample like it does in one 8Dio library that I have (Agitato Sordino)?


I've not noticed anything like this. If I'm going to be picky, sometimes the stereo field in Ark 3 especially can feel a little flat, especially when it's screaming fff in the Marcato Multi. But I haven't messed with it much to see if additional/different mics could fix that.


----------



## Bear Market (Dec 4, 2018)

sekkosiki said:


> Don't buy them. Terrible sound. They don't blend at all with other libraries. Seating is all over the place. They'll instantly crush your dreams and end your career.



Thanks man. I was hovering over the "place order" button when I read your post. I might come in around the same time tomorrow to ask you to totally trash Inspire for me, ok?


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 4, 2018)

Bear Market said:


> Thanks man. I was hovering over the "place order" button when I read your post. I might come in around the same time tomorrow to ask you to totally trash Inspire for me, ok?



Just think of how much better your wallet likes you!


----------



## whiskers (Dec 4, 2018)




----------



## Henu (Dec 4, 2018)

NathanTiemeyer said:


> Orchestral string runs is nearing 9 years old. But, I know old samples can still be very valuable, does anyone own this runs library and do you find it worth the purchase?



+1 on this question. I'm currently going with Cinestrings Runs, and while it's been ok-ish for me (just using it in a project as we speak) the OT Runs seems to be way more advanced and more flexible.
Cinestrings doesn't really shine on the coding, as it's basically one-shot wavs- so in that sort of a sense it seems that what the OT library can do is already ahead of that. And AFAIK, these two are our only current options.


----------



## erikradbo (Dec 4, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I have also mentioned elsewhere that getting Ark 2 completely justified and redeemed my purchase of Ark 1 because the two complemented each other so much. Getting Berlin WWs for me is an eventual no brainer precisely for the same reason. Nice not having to keep mix other developer's libraries in, all the time.



Cool. I already have Berlin WW (not legacy), so getting the Arks 1&2 seems like a great opportunity. Do you compose many pieces with just these three?


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 4, 2018)

I notice there is a spot for an e-voucher. I just want to say, I think instead of saying you can't use vouchers for this, NI plans this for when my vouchers disappear. I have yet to get to use an e-voucher they have given me. Just saying.


----------



## Maxfabian (Dec 4, 2018)

Henu said:


> +1 on this question. I'm currently going with Cinestrings Runs, and while it's been ok-ish for me (just using it in a project as we speak) the OT Runs seems to be way more advanced and more flexible.
> Cinestrings doesn't really shine on the coding, as it's basically one-shot wavs- so in that sort of a sense it seems that what the OT library can do is already ahead of that. And AFAIK, these two are our only current options.


I can just say that I really like OSR! I don't own other string runs libraries so I can not compare... but I guess that is a good sign. I mean I haven't looked for others since I bought it. I do recommend it deeply Here is a track I recently did using OSR. 


Cheers


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 4, 2018)

erikradbo said:


> Cool. I already have Berlin WW (not legacy), so getting the Arks 1&2 seems like a great opportunity. Do you compose many pieces with just these three?



I don't have BWW yet (of course I'm suffering until that day), however yes I have composed my fourth symphony mostly with the Arks and the Chris Hein woodwinds and solo violin. Though I didn't quite get as inspired as I did with the BHCT (keep in mind, I was at the time insanely obsessed with Bernard's work...uh, still am), Ark 1 and 2 are a 1 2 knockout combination.

I'd share my work but I suck, sorry. 

Really.


----------



## banes (Dec 4, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> You could say Ark 1 and 2 are what I thought Albion ONE was supposed to be a couple of years ago, but wasn't.



Can you elaborate? I own Albion one and am wondering whether to buy Ark 1 and 2 or not


----------



## damcry (Dec 4, 2018)

banes said:


> Can you elaborate? I own Albion one and am wondering whether to buy Ark 1 and 2 or not


I have exactly the same question


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 4, 2018)

If I'd known in advance, I would have advised you against buying Albion One (to this day, I wish I would have simply stuck with the useful Albion Legacy). Though there are some really good patches in A1 (I like the Spicc/Stacc patches and the arranged woodwinds can be very helpful), overall I don't see it as a first purchase unless you intend on making rough sketches entirely for awhile (of course, nothing wrong with that). As far as full mock ups go...

If you want a non-mushy library, just one to write a full and final mockup with, I would completely step on Albion One to get to the Arks. The Arks had it so I personally kind of forgot about A1 (though I'd already found libraries that helped me on that road last year, BHCT and the Hein stuff specifically).

It all depends on how much you want to put into scoping out the manuals and _*actually putting the time in writing with those libraries*_.

Awright, I'm not an OT salesperson, so I'll wrap it up.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2018)

banes said:


> I own Albion one and am wondering whether to buy Ark 1 and 2 or not


Together, the Arks have more dynamic range than Albion One and more detailed sectioning in the orchestra (Ark 1 takes it louder, Ark 2 softer). Albion One has upper woodwinds that the Arks do not. The Arks have more instruments, including a set of exceptional choirs. Albion One has all of the loops and hybrid stuff that the Arks do not. The Arks have a larger RAM footprint, but I found them perfectly manageable on my 16GB laptop and they are very comfortable on my 32GB studio machine. I like the sound of both Albion One and the Arks—though they are different. I find myself using Ark patches all the time with my other libraries. I do not find myself turning to Albion One in that same way.


----------



## Goldie Zwecker (Dec 4, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> You could say Ark 1 and 2 are what I thought Albion ONE was supposed to be a couple of years ago, but wasn't.


Really? How are the hybrid edna pads on the ARK's and how are the brunnel loops? And how dry can you get with the ARKS?


----------



## HelixK (Dec 4, 2018)

whiskers said:


>


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 4, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> _*actually putting the time in writing with those libraries*_.



Woah, woah, woah, slow down... what's this "putting time in" you're talking about? I thought those were supposed to be the instant gratification kind of libraries where you play a note and it goes _brraaaAA*AHHHMM*Mmmm?_ 
Which workflow aspects did you find the most timeconsuming or hard to get used to? I know I'm not used to having one articulation per track and it will take me a bit to get used to having stuff split up into anything other than keyswitched instrument sections. Though it seems they offer that approach for some things too?!


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 4, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Do you think Ark 1+2 are any more complicated to use than NI Symphony Series Collection?



I wouldn't know. That Collection never interested me, sorry.


----------



## Jaybee (Dec 4, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> I wouldn't know. That Collection never interested me, sorry.



Tempted by Ark 3? I've watched a couple of videos but currently on the fence (whereas 1&2 are already in the basket). Not sure I'd use much of the cluster stuff but the repetition work and decrescendo etc sound stellar.


----------



## Hanu_H (Dec 4, 2018)

I like how the Ark 1 sounds, but sometimes I get really frustrated with the keyswitches in the library. I use Korg Nanokey 2 to change articulations with my other libraries but with Ark, I can't choose where the keyswitches are and I always have to open the instrument to find the right ones. Also the multi articulation patches are not really consistent, you can change the articulations in the patches and save it but haven't find the time to do it yet. Most of the patches sound great, I miss legatos in some of the brass instruments though.

-Hannes


----------



## Kony (Dec 4, 2018)

Hanu_H said:


> I like how the Ark 1 sounds, but sometimes I get really frustrated with the keyswitches in the library. I use Korg Nanokey 2 to change articulations with my other libraries but with Ark, I can't choose where the keyswitches are and I always have to open the instrument to find the right ones. Also the multi articulation patches are not really consistent, you can change the articulations in the patches and save it but haven't find the time to do it yet. Most of the patches sound great, I miss legatos in some of the brass instruments though.
> 
> -Hannes


Are you in Cubase? It's very easy to change articulations using expression maps


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2018)

Hanu_H said:


> I can't choose where the keyswitches are and I always have to open the instrument to find the right ones.


You can move the key switches. My recollection is you do this with little arrows on the bottom of the main screen.


----------



## Hanu_H (Dec 4, 2018)

Kony said:


> Are you in Cubase? It's very easy to change articulations using expression maps


Yes, I am on Cubase but I don't use expression maps. Ark is a supplementary library for me, so I don't have it loaded in my template. I just load it when I need something from it. Mostly using the choir, brass and some articulations from the strings.

-Hannes


----------



## Hanu_H (Dec 4, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> You can move the key switches. My recollection is you do this with little arrows on the bottom of the main screen.


Okey, have to check it out.

-Hannes


----------



## Kony (Dec 4, 2018)

Hanu_H said:


> Yes, I am on Cubase but I don't use expression maps. Ark is a supplementary library for me, so I don't have it loaded in my template. I just load it when I need something from it. Mostly using the choir, brass and some articulations from the strings.


That's fair enough - I'm a recent convert to using expression maps, not just for OT but other libs as well, and have to say they make articulation switching so easy compared to using key switching. Just my two cents....


----------



## whiskers (Dec 4, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> I notice there is a spot for an e-voucher. I just want to say, I think instead of saying you can't use vouchers for this, NI plans this for when my vouchers disappear. I have yet to get to use an e-voucher they have given me. Just saying.


why settle for a chunk of money when you can have even _more_ _money?  --_NI


----------



## Loïc D (Dec 4, 2018)

Very tempted by the Arks.
Seems like there’s only one mic position, quite ambient.
For you Ark users, is this true and did you experienced any shortcomings when using the wet sound in your mix and with other libraries ?
Thanks


----------



## Kony (Dec 4, 2018)

LowweeK said:


> Very tempted by the Arks.
> Seems like there’s only one mic position, quite ambient.
> For you Ark users, is this true and did you experienced any shortcomings when using the wet sound in your mix and with other libraries ?
> Thanks


There are more mics - eg Spot, Close, Tree, Surround

EDIT: I have Ark 1 + 3 - both are great libraries


----------



## micrologus (Dec 4, 2018)

Trying the Orchestral String Runs but I hear some weird effects... clicks, wrong speed, samples not playing... Or I'm doing something wrong?


----------



## Gingerbread (Dec 4, 2018)

Maxfabian said:


> I can just say that I really like OSR! I don't own other string runs libraries so I can not compare... but I guess that is a good sign. I mean I haven't looked for others since I bought it. I do recommend it deeply Here is a track I recently did using OSR.
> 
> 
> Cheers



Max, I love your composition, and the string runs sound so good, I'm now contemplating OSR. They really blend very well with the other string articulations. Can I ask which string library you used for the legatos and other non-runs? Also, what did you use for the woodwind runs? (They sound great too.)


----------



## Kony (Dec 4, 2018)

Maxfabian said:


> I can just say that I really like OSR! I don't own other string runs libraries so I can not compare... but I guess that is a good sign. I mean I haven't looked for others since I bought it. I do recommend it deeply Here is a track I recently did using OSR.
> 
> 
> Cheers



Whoa! Excellent track Max


----------



## cosmodave29 (Dec 4, 2018)

miket said:


> If using VSL is a requirement to be a "real professional," then I don't ever want to be a "real professional."
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Someone perpetually trying to sell an old VSL library here on VI-Control and who clearly doesn't understand how to be a good salesman


Hey I'm not the one who said that. It was the other forum member's post which I quoted because it irritated me as well.


----------



## babylonwaves (Dec 4, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Do you think Ark 1+2 are any more complicated to use than NI Symphony Series Collection?


The arcs have a bigger variety of articulations including a couple which some might consider exotic. As a result you might need to spend additional time to learn to utilize those articulations. Other than that, both libs have quirks of course but those will not get in your way.


----------



## axb312 (Dec 4, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> In one of his videos around Black Friday Christian Henson noted that the first Black Friday sale Spitfire ran was truly eye-opening for him. When you are dealing with a product that has a marginal cost of the bandwidth of the download pricing to increase volume will nearly always beat pricing to maintain margin. The key is pricing that will ensure initial costs are recovered (and an income stream that ensues you can cover fixed costs like payroll). A secondary consideration is scarcity that promises those who have the product something relatively distinctive. The trend seems to be against the latter in the public commercial sphere, though I’m sure there are many semi-private libraries out there that serve this purpose.


Phrasing.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 4, 2018)

I just deleted the matriarchal reference posts. We're getting reports about them and frankly it's not worth the time dealing with them.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 4, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> You can move the key switches. My recollection is you do this with little arrows on the bottom of the main screen.


On the lower left of the GUI, the little arrows with the KS between will move the keyswitches.


----------



## Maxfabian (Dec 4, 2018)

Kony said:


> Whoa! Excellent track Max


Thanks Kony


----------



## Maxfabian (Dec 4, 2018)

Gingerbread said:


> Max, I love your composition, and the string runs sound so good, I'm now contemplating OSR. They really blend very well with the other string articulations. Can I ask which string library you used for the legatos and other non-runs? Also, what did you use for the woodwind runs? (They sound great too.)


Thanks! Glad you liked it 

Samples used: Cinematic Studio Strings/Orchestral String Runs, CineBrass, Hollywood Winds, VSL Winds and East West Hollywood Percussion. 

Cheers


----------



## Michel Simons (Dec 4, 2018)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Hi folks, I will be reviewing OT's OSR and Sphere very soon, and walk you through the libraries and show what the current updates are like. Stay tuned



That would be very much appreciated since I am still on the fence about OSR.


----------



## essay (Dec 4, 2018)

Just got OSR... Have been wanting to get this and was about to pull the trigger a couple of months back... good timing, this sale!

Ark 1 & 2 bundle is seriously being considered...


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 5, 2018)

Always wondered about run libraries. I own Albion One, where string runs are included. But even here I'm having a hard time combining the run patches with the legato / sustain patches. Kinda sounds like they were recorded in a different way or with different instruments.
So, when you buy OSR, how do you even blend it together with libraries like e.g. CSS?
I see this is getting kinda offtopic. Sorry for that!


----------



## lumcas (Dec 5, 2018)

Could someone chime in and tell us how the existing customers will be treated regarding the NKS compatible updates (Arks in my case)? Thank you. I've done a quick run through this thread but haven't found anything.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 5, 2018)

lumcas said:


> Could someone chime in and tell us how the existing customers will be treated regarding the NKS compatible updates (Arks in my case)? Thank you. I've done a quick run through this thread but haven't found anything.


Doubt anyone knows yet, but I could be wrong


----------



## Rap-sody (Dec 5, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Doubt anyone knows yet, but I could be wrong


I asked OT support and they told me they will send NKS updates in due time, whatever that means...


----------



## averystemmler (Dec 5, 2018)

I just picked up the Ark bundle. I'd love to tell you how I like it, but MAN I've forgotten how much of a pain the Continuata downloader is on my machine. It pops a Visual C++ Runtime error every 5 minutes or so, and requires a restart. It'll eventually download and install everything but it needs a babysitter in the meantime.

I'll still take it over dongles though.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 5, 2018)

averystemmler said:


> I just picked up the Ark bundle. I'd love to tell you how I like it, but MAN I've forgotten how much of a pain the Continuata downloader is on my machine. It pops a Visual C++ Runtime error every 5 minutes or so, and requires a restart. It'll eventually download and install everything but it needs a babysitter in the meantime.
> 
> I'll still take it over dongles though.



Can't you use direct download links and use a browser addon like down them all to shove all the download links into and have it work through them in a sensible fashion?


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 5, 2018)

Just bought the Ark Bundle. CSS as well, I get an educational discount for that.
That was a hard one. But I guess, Christmas is near... and few libraries have such good repetition as these. They were on my watch list whatsoever.

I'm buying with emotions, and arguing with arguments, right? Help me! xD
No seriously, can't wait to try them out later. And in the next few days. Weeks. LOTS of stuff coming up.


----------



## averystemmler (Dec 5, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Can't you use direct download links and use a browser addon like down them all to shove all the download links into and have it work through them in a sensible fashion?



Continuata does have a direct download option too. I'll likely do that for Ark II, but I've chugged it through most of Ark I already.


----------



## Scott Moran (Dec 5, 2018)

Two things:

1) I spent too much on Black Friday but holy hell, how can I pass this up. I love Ark 1 and I'm literally giddy that I'm getting 2 and 3 at this price.

2) As someone who has had an irrational love for all things NiN since 1990, I'm doing some serious fan-girling for posting on the same thread as Charlie Clouser.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 5, 2018)

Think im going to go for the Ark 1 & 2 Bundle, too good to pass up.

Going to have to give serious thought on whether Ark 3 would be worth it.


----------



## Mister Jös (Dec 5, 2018)

I think thats a really good deal, but i'm a bit worried that the libraries are just too wet for my taste. I would estimate that the reverberation time is around 2s and even the close mics have plenty of room. Not really sure that they are good to mix with other libraries and wether you can achieve a sound which could be called upfront_._


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 5, 2018)

Bear Market said:


> Thanks man. I was hovering over the "place order" button when I read your post. I might come in around the same time tomorrow to ask you to totally trash Inspire for me, ok?



Are you still going strong resisting the urge to buy? 

Maybe try this little trick: go back to the store pages of the libraries that you bought in the past and listen to the sound demos and ask yourself if those libraries made your music sound the way you imagined before buying them.

I did that for the Symphony Series Brass, which is the part I'm least happy with in my collection, and makes me think I should _maybe _learn more about composition, orchestration and mastering instead of buying the Ark bundle... still tempted though.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 5, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Are you still going strong resisting the urge to buy?
> 
> Maybe try this little trick: go back to the store pages of the libraries that you bought in the past and listen to the sound demos and ask yourself if those libraries made your music sound the way you imagined before buying them.
> 
> I did that for the Symphony Series Brass, which is the part I'm least happy with in my collection, and makes me think I should _maybe _learn more about composition, orchestration and mastering instead of buying the Ark bundle... still tempted though.



I have the Symphony Series Brass and am still thinking this would add a lot of value. But Symphony series is really the only orchestral thing I have besides Time Macro. Symphony Series does sound good, though, and I completely agree with what you say about learning more about composition, orchestration, and mastering.

Ah, ambivalence, we meet again.


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 5, 2018)

Just made my first tests with Ark 1 and 2.
First impression: HOLY MOLY that's a great sound. That choir is great in so many ways.
Second thing I realized is that there is LOTS of noise / artifacts included. Didn't noticed it when playing a note yet, but when you stop pressing a chord while having a string library loaded, there is lots of crackling going on. Yet I don't mind very much about that. It could even give a realisting feeling here and there.
So much more to see!


----------



## whiskers (Dec 5, 2018)

Meetyhtan said:


> Just made my first tests with Ark 1 and 2.
> First impression: HOLY MOLY that's a great sound. That choir is great in so many ways.
> Second thing I realized is that there is LOTS of noise / artifacts included. Didn't noticed it when playing a note yet, but when you stop pressing a chord while having a string library loaded, there is lots of crackling going on. Yet I don't mind very much about that. It could even give a realisting feeling here and there.
> So much more to see!


probably a pretty noob question, but if it's not when playing a note, it's not really noise from the sample, is it?


----------



## Bear Market (Dec 5, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Are you still going strong resisting the urge to buy?
> 
> Maybe try this little trick: go back to the store pages of the libraries that you bought in the past and listen to the sound demos and ask yourself if those libraries made your music sound the way you imagined before buying them.
> 
> I did that for the Symphony Series Brass, which is the part I'm least happy with in my collection, and makes me think I should _maybe _learn more about composition, orchestration and mastering instead of buying the Ark bundle... still tempted though.



Yup, still hanging in there...

Excellent advice though! I wholeheartedly agree even though the VST junkie in me wants the Arks so bad it makes my eyebrows twitch! 

I too have Symphony Series Brass (and all its rascal siblings... I got along reasonably well with the strings however, especially the long articulations).


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 5, 2018)

whiskers said:


> probably a pretty noob question, but if it's not when playing a note, it's not really noise from the sample, is it?


Probably Meetyhtan is talking about noise in the release tails.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 5, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Probably Meetyhtan is talking about noise in the release tails.


ah, duh, that makes sense


----------



## krops (Dec 5, 2018)

I'm really tempted to get ... something here, but I think OT's product pages are a little lacklustre. The video on the Symphonic Sphere page, for instance, is just an update on what they're working on or were working on when the video was published, and the Ark videos just footage from the recording sessions?

Am I just spoilt by Spitfire's extensive videos that usually accompany a product release?

Anyway, I hear some really nice brass in the Ark 1 demos, but I don't know what exactly these libraries will add, when I've already got Symphobia 1+2, Spitfire Symphonic Strings (and the SS evos), all the Sonokinetic phrase thingies, Cinestrings/Brass/Perc Core (and since black friday also the '90s Trumpets), all Heavyocity perc libraries...

I don't really use any of the aforementioned libraries, mind you, I just like to fill up my hard drives with orchestral libraries while I make electronic dance music.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 5, 2018)

krops said:


> Am I just spoilt by Spitfire's extensive videos that usually accompany a product release?


Check their youtube channel, they have longer videos demonstrating some of the patches in each ark. 



Bear Market said:


> I too have Symphony Series Brass (and all its rascal siblings... I got along reasonably well with the strings however, especially the long articulations).


Yes, and I like that they have divisi sections. I know I'd miss that in the Ark strings. I'd rather have divisi than octave doubled strings recorded in non-traditional setups. Compared to what I'm used to I think how stuff in the Arks is organized would confuse/annoy me. 



krops said:


> I don't really use any of the aforementioned libraries, mind you, I just like to fill up my hard drives with orchestral libraries while I make electronic dance music.


I had a good laugh when I read that :D.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 5, 2018)

krops said:


> I don't really use any of the aforementioned libraries, mind you, I just like to fill up my hard drives with orchestral libraries while I make electronic dance music.


Serious question, have you thought about doing any kind of hybrid/mix between the two?

Not dance really, persay, but like orchestral with electronic elements and/or a downbeat. Love that stuff. Wish I could find a better example but, for instance:


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 5, 2018)

averystemmler said:


> I just picked up the Ark bundle. I'd love to tell you how I like it, but MAN I've forgotten how much of a pain the Continuata downloader is on my machine. It pops a Visual C++ Runtime error every 5 minutes or so, and requires a restart. It'll eventually download and install everything but it needs a babysitter in the meantime.
> 
> I'll still take it over dongles though.


I can feel your pain too. Continuata is the biggest bullshit unstable software imo.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 5, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I can feel your pain too. Continuata is the biggest bullshit unstable software imo.


8dios installer. on the other hand, seems rock solid. Can't imagine it'd be too hard to make a custom installer that includes licensing checks, but who knows.


----------



## BlackDorito (Dec 5, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I can feel your pain too. Continuata is the biggest bullshit unstable software imo.


Alexander - are you a big Ark1 and Ark2 user?


----------



## dohm (Dec 5, 2018)

Finally picked up Ark 1, 2, and 3. Have been waiting a few years for these to go on sale. I decided many years ago to only buy libraries during good sales. All but gave up waiting for OT. I was able to use Continuata to download and install Ark 2 and 3, but Ark 1 is giving me fits. On my 3rd or 4th attempt to get it to finish without crashing.


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 5, 2018)

BlackDorito said:


> Alexander - are you a big Ark1 and Ark2 user?


Oh yes I am..using it all the time,last comnercial work also. I and III.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 5, 2018)

dohm said:


> Finally picked up Ark 1, 2, and 3. Have been waiting a few years for these to go on sale. I decided many years ago to only buy libraries during good sales. All but gave up waiting for OT. I was able to use Continuata to download and install Ark 2 and 3, but Ark 1 is giving me fits. On my 3rd or 4th attempt to get it to finish without crashing.


Would love to know your thoughts once you test. I would have a hard time justifying 3 for me personally, but really curious how others might use it.


----------



## Britpack50 (Dec 5, 2018)

Maxfabian said:


> I can just say that I really like OSR! I don't own other string runs libraries so I can not compare... but I guess that is a good sign. I mean I haven't looked for others since I bought it. I do recommend it deeply Here is a track I recently did using OSR.
> 
> 
> Cheers



wow fantastic. I am inspired


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 5, 2018)

whiskers said:


> ah, duh, that makes sense


Exactly what I meant!

My favorite is Ark 2 so far. As expected, I prefer sounds with lower dynamic in most cases. Haven't done anything epic trailer like yet, but would like to do so in the future, which Ark 1 will be great for. Ark 2 goes pretty soft and YES, to answer my own question from yesterday, you will be able to create peaceful and quite stuff with it, doesn't even have to be involved with a dark vibe.
My personal favorites are the Mid Strings, Women (LOVE the Staccatos) and Children Choir and probably even the Alto Flute. They all can go pretty quiet, more than I expected from an Ark Library which is great. Just scratched the surface though of course!


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 5, 2018)

Meetyhtan said:


> My personal favorites are the Mid Strings, Women (LOVE the Staccatos) and Children Choir and probably even the Alto Flute.


 Yes, the Alto Flute a3 patch is one of my favorites, and the ensemble sound makes it different and in some contexts more useful than a solo alto flute.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 5, 2018)

Meetyhtan said:


> Exactly what I meant!
> 
> My favorite is Ark 2 so far. As expected, I prefer sounds with lower dynamic in most cases. Haven't done anything epic trailer like yet, but would like to do so in the future, which Ark 1 will be great for. Ark 2 goes pretty soft and YES, to answer my own question from yesterday, you will be able to create peaceful and quite stuff with it, doesn't even have to be involved with a dark vibe.
> My personal favorites are the Mid Strings, Women (LOVE the Staccatos) and Children Choir and probably even the Alto Flute. They all can go pretty quiet, more than I expected from an Ark Library which is great. Just scratched the surface though of course!


y u do dis to my wallet :'(



Spoiler



JK, it's all me :(


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 5, 2018)

whiskers said:


> y u do dis to my wallet :'(
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry for not being disapointed by my choice so far :D
I won't convince you to buy the Ark bundle. Just try to imagine what it would be like to have spend the money by now and own it. Pretty dumb, I know, but it works. You also have quite some more nights to let that decision sink in.
Don't buy with emotions and argue with facts. Did you wanted the Arks before the sale already, even at their standart price? Personally, I did. But never forget that this is marketing, the imagination of limitation that the sellers are giving us. All that has an obvious purpose of course and I need to hold myself back as well. I got more than I could ever try already and haven't even published one single (!!!) track yet. Buuuut I already said that after buying Komplete 11 Ultimate as my first product, so...


----------



## whiskers (Dec 5, 2018)

Meetyhtan said:


> Sorry for not being disapointed by my choice so far :D
> I won't convince you to buy the Ark bundle. Just try to imagine what it would be like to have spend the money by now and own it. Pretty dumb, I know, but it works. You also have quite some more nights to let that decision sink in.
> Don't buy with emotions and argue with facts. Did you wanted the Arks before the sale already, even at their standart price? Personally, I did. But never forget that this is marketing, the imagination of limitation that the sellers are giving us. All that has an obvious purpose of course and I need to hold myself back as well. I got more than I will ever need already and haven't even published one single (!!!) track yet.





Yes, I did want the Arks, i'm just giving you a hard time. Also I overthink every major purchase, I was just having fun. I'm sure i'll get at least Ark 1&2 by the end of the week  When I picked up Time Macro i realized how really quality OTs stuff is 

Cheers


----------



## chrisphan (Dec 5, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Wow, so nice when the sale is for stuff I don't own but kind of want. So the Inspire bundle or the Ark bundle. (Or Both?) If I got both, that might be my holiday budget.
> 
> I do own Tundra and Majestica, so Inspire might be better.... Time to go watch YouTube....


----------



## Daniel (Dec 6, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Oh yes I am..using it all the time,last comnercial work also. I and III.


Not interested with MA II?


----------



## krops (Dec 6, 2018)

Would anyone care to shed some light on how the Arks differ from e.g. Symphobias and Albions? I like the "wrapping" of MA, with their "Districts" and Metropolis reference, but if I take a step back, it's all just marketing ploys, and I just can't seem to grasp what they deliver that similar libraries don't.

Also: is Inspire maybe more comparable to Symphobia than Metropolis Arks are? Would anyone say Inspire has some quality that the Symphobias lack?


----------



## Goldie Zwecker (Dec 6, 2018)

Got ARK I, II & III. 
Downloading now...


----------



## AlexanderSchiborr (Dec 6, 2018)

Daniel said:


> Not interested with MA II?



Why? I mean..I have libraries which cover quiter dynamics.


----------



## Daniel (Dec 6, 2018)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Why? I mean..I have libraries which cover quiter dynamics.


Ah I see..thank you for the reply.


----------



## Kony (Dec 6, 2018)

Kony said:


> All of the recent OT sales will make sense if Ark 4 is released next week



Hmm, looks like I might be right....

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/orchestral-tools-ark-4.77516/


----------



## zimm83 (Dec 6, 2018)

Kony said:


> Hmm, looks like I might be right....
> 
> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/orchestral-tools-ark-4.77516/


Yes....you and i were right !!!!! Our yearly Ark is coming !!!!!


----------



## Goldie Zwecker (Dec 6, 2018)

Not sure why the very very slow download time. Last week i downloaded sample logic's Morphestra. For 25GB using continua it took about 10 minutes. 
The problem must be on the OT's end, i guess.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 6, 2018)

Goldie Zwecker said:


> Not sure why the very very slow download time. Last week i downloaded sample logic's Morphestra. For 25GB using continua it took about 10 minutes.
> The problem must be on the OT's end, i guess.



The server is sweating under the load of all the Ark buyers from this sale. :D


----------



## Maxfabian (Dec 6, 2018)

Britpack50 said:


> wow fantastic. I am inspired


Thanks! Always nice to inspire  Cheers


----------



## Fleer (Dec 9, 2018)

Still feeling Ark 2 must be the special one for OT, somewhat like Albion 5 Tundra for Spitfire.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Still feeling Ark 2 must be the special one for OT, somewhat like Albion 5 Tundra for Spitfire.


I think Time Macro is OT’s Tundra. Ark 2 is nice, but Time Macro is what I reach for when I want something special.


----------



## Goldie Zwecker (Dec 9, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I think Time Macro is OT’s Tundra. Ark 2 is nice, but Time Macro is what I reach for when I want something special.


Time Macro is OT's equivalent of something "Evo Grid-ish". 
Tundra is, well, Tundra.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2018)

Goldie Zwecker said:


> Time Macro is OT's equivalent of something "Evo Grid-ish".
> Tundra is, well, Tundra.


Perhaps, but Ark 2 certainly isn’t Tundra and I think Time Macro is closer.


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 9, 2018)

Goldie Zwecker said:


> Time Macro is OT's equivalent of something "Evo Grid-ish".
> Tundra is, well, Tundra.



I'm oscillating at this point:
I have Albions ONE, Loegria, Tundra … and considering ICENI now @ 30% off.
I have Ark1, Time Macro … and considering Ark2 now @ 35% off.

I kno, I kno … _my_ needs and wants, but still very tough to choose one vs other.
I hear so strongly that Ark 2 truly complements Ark1 and do not doubt. 
Niddly question is how much ICENI complements other Albions. 
One view might be that adding Ark 2 is likely more impactful than a 4th Albion?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> I'm oscillating at this point with:
> Albions ONE, Loegria, Tundra … and ICENI is now 30% off.
> Ark1, Time Macro … and Ark2 no2 35% off.
> 
> ...


Which of the OT libraries do you have? Or do you not have any? If you don't have the Arks, I would say that the current deal on 1&2 is very good and give you quite a lot that the Albions you have won't, even if you add Iceni to it. That said, Iceni is itself a very good library, my favorite of the Albions after Tundra.


----------



## Goldie Zwecker (Dec 9, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Perhaps, but Ark 2 certainly isn’t Tundra and I think Time Macro is closer.


I agree. 
ARK 2 is nothing like Tundra. It's not just low dynamics. Tundra is all about very special playing techniques and aericulations.


----------



## Goldie Zwecker (Dec 9, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Ark1, Time Macro … and Ark2 no2 35% off.


I don't see Time Macro is on sale. It sells for full price now. If you want it - wait for the next sale.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2018)

Goldie Zwecker said:


> I agree.
> ARK 2 is nothing like Tundra. It's not just low dynamics. Tundra is all about very special playing techniques and aericulations.


Yes, I agree with you. My original comment was in reply who suggested Ark 2 was OT's Tundra. I think the closest thing OT has to Tundra is Time Macro, but I would concur that Time Macro is closer in spirit to the Spitfire Evos.


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 9, 2018)

Goldie Zwecker said:


> I don't see Time Macro is on sale. It sells for full price now. If you want it - wait for the next sale.



THX. My Post was unclear and I edited it.  Ark 2 seems a solid add right now.


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 9, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Which of the OT libraries do you have? Or do you not have any? If you don't have the Arks, I would say that the current deal on 1&2 is very good and give you quite a lot that the Albions you have won't, even if you add Iceni to it. That said, Iceni is itself a very good library, my favorite of the Albions after Tundra.



Sorry. Edited my Post to clarify. You make a good point that Ark2 addition makes most sense for first addition. If I can stretch for another, then ICENI. _Both_ will be pushing $700. but strong tools. 

Thank-you for helping.


----------



## Goldie Zwecker (Dec 9, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Sorry. Edited my Post to clarify. You make a good point that Ark2 addition makes most sense for first addition. If I can stretch for another, then ICENI. _Both_ will be pushing $700. but strong tools.
> 
> Thank-you for helping.


I'm also drawn to ICENI but a bit bothered by two things. First, i know it's different than ARK 1 but how much different (i.e. to what extent can i replicate sounds from it using ARK 1?). 
Second is that it's 6 years old and 16GB of content - which doesn't seem much compared to other albions and arks.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 9, 2018)

Goldie Zwecker said:


> I'm also drawn to ICENI but a bit bothered by two things. First, i know it's different than ARK 1 but how much different (i.e. to what extent can i replicate sounds from it using ARK 1?).
> Second is that it's 6 years old and 16GB of content - which doesn't seem much compared to other albions and arks.


In terms of the orchestra, I'm not sure that Iceni adds that much to Ark 1, and the latter is much more versatile, though I think the low strings in Iceni are better than those in Ark 1, the divided cellos are nice, and the low brass in Iceni can both have more of an edge to it and sound a bit better at lower dynamic levels than that in Ark 1, though Ark 1 gives you sections (bass trombones, Cimbassi, Tubas) whereas Iceni only gives you only ensemble low brass. Iceni also has all the hybrid stuff and loops, so it also depends a bit on whether you use that. Personally, I would buy either Ark 1 or 2 before I would buy Iceni, but I wouldn't say that Ark 1 makes Iceni completely redundant either—and as I said it's my favorite of the Albions after Tundra. I think Homay's recent In Action video does a good job of showing some of what Iceni is still capable of outside of just being noisy.


----------



## NYC Composer (Dec 10, 2018)

I was very surprised to find that the main things I use Ark 1 for are the choir and solo voice.


----------



## stfciu (Dec 10, 2018)

For those who own Tundra, could you please share your opinion is there a chance to blend it properly with MA2 both in terms of sound and stylistic aspect or is it in this price range wiser to look for Loegria/Masse which obviously seems an easy mix option?


----------



## erikradbo (Dec 10, 2018)

Goldie Zwecker said:


> I'm also drawn to ICENI but a bit bothered by two things. First, i know it's different than ARK 1 but how much different (i.e. to what extent can i replicate sounds from it using ARK 1?).
> Second is that it's 6 years old and 16GB of content - which doesn't seem much compared to other albions and arks.



I have Iceni and have used it sparsely, but tried it out again after getting ark1 now on the sale. I don't believe I will use iceni that much in the future either. When it comes to meaty, low strings, I'd say ark1 has the upper hand. Iceni also has some other nice features, such as the loops, but they don't add that much that albion1 doesn't have, or Evolve from NI which I happen to have with Komplete. 

So far I love Ark2, I'd def go for Ark1 & 2 over Iceni.


----------



## Hanu_H (Dec 10, 2018)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Hi folks, I will be reviewing OT's OSR and Sphere very soon, and walk you through the libraries and show what the current updates are like. Stay tuned


Any ETA on this? Would love to hear your thoughts before I purchase.

-Hannes


----------



## Michel Simons (Dec 10, 2018)

Hanu_H said:


> Any ETA on this? Would love to hear your thoughts before I purchase.
> 
> -Hannes



+1


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic (Dec 10, 2018)

Hanu_H said:


> Any ETA on this? Would love to hear your thoughts before I purchase.
> 
> -Hannes


Hi Hannes, I am still waiting for the NKS versions of the products to be applied on OT’s own end. I have been told once that happens, they will be able to send it to me for review. Sorry for the wait guys!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 10, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> I was very surprised to find that the main things I use Ark 1 for are the choir and solo voice.


Ark 1 has a solo voice?


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 10, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Ark 1 has a solo voice?



At least I can't find it in the articulation list pdf from the OT website.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Dec 10, 2018)

No, there isn't ! @NYC Composer I assume you were talking about the legato patches ?


----------



## Puzzlefactory (Dec 10, 2018)

Picked up Ark 1. Loving the sound of it so far and none of the timing issues with the shorts (as of yet).


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 10, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> ********************** Iceni also has all the hybrid stuff and loops, so it also depends a bit on whether you use that. Personally, I would buy either Ark 1 or 2 before I would buy Iceni, but I wouldn't say that Ark 1 makes Iceni completely redundant either—and as I said it's my favorite of the Albions after Tundra._ I think Homay's recent In Action video does a good job of showing some of what Iceni is still capable of _outside of just being noisy.



Homay's In Action video gave me a very different (and positive) perspective. I too have noted ICENI content size but have tried not to place too much focus there, given so many complimentary User posts. 
Already using Ark1, so minor concern is mainly adding Ark2 _next_, or ICENI during Dec promo.
Both are desirable longer-term. 
Failed to mention already having BO_Inspire 1&2 as well, but posts here suggest this is not a factor.


----------



## NYC Composer (Dec 10, 2018)

whitewasteland said:


> No, there isn't ! @NYC Composer I assume you were talking about the legato patches ?


Oops. Right you are-unison legato.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 10, 2018)

I know that jaeger had a solo voice


----------



## Grégory Betton (Dec 11, 2018)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I know that jaeger had a solo voice


Which they sold separately at some point. Don't know if it's still the case but they may do it again. Good voice for etheric parts with a lot of reverb ; she's an alto, perhaps a mezzo, so the range is not that high, but very nice voice anyway.


----------



## Manaberry (Dec 11, 2018)

I'm grabbing all my pennies for this sale. I don't own any decent Woodwinds libraries, and it seems I can get pretty nice winds instruments from OT with ARK I and II to complete my workflow (I have SSS and SSB from SA already). I've watched videos related to this product but damn, it's still a big amount of money..

Choir, Harp, Drums, etc would be a nice addition too.. 

I don't know why I'm writing this, maybe I hope to read something like "_Yes m8, you can go for it_" or "_nope, keep your money you fool, you have to buy gifts for your family, it's christmas time_".


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 11, 2018)

Manaberry said:


> I'm grabbing all my pennies for this sale. I don't own any decent Woodwinds libraries, and it seems I can get pretty nice winds instruments from OT with ARK I and II to complete my workflow (I have SSS and SSB from SA already). I've watched videos related to this product but damn, it's still a big amount of money..
> 
> Choir, Harp, Drums, etc would be a nice addition too..
> 
> I don't know why I'm writing this, maybe I hope to read something like "_Yes m8, you can go for it_" or "_nope, keep your money you fool, you have to buy gifts for your family, it's christmas time_".


Woodwinds aren’t the Arks’ forte, and the upper woodwinds are especially lacking. So the libraries won’t really address a need for woodwinds, though the alto flutes and bass flutes are very nice. That said the libraries are nice, I find they mix well with the SF stuff and are good complements to it. So you wouldn’t be buying a lot of redundancy.


----------



## zimm83 (Dec 11, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Woodwinds aren’t the Arks’ forte, and the upper woodwinds are especially lacking. So the libraries won’t really address a need for woodwinds, though the alto flutes and bass flutes are very nice. That said the libraries are nice, I find they mix well with the SF stuff and are good complements to it. So you wouldn’t be buying a lot of redundancy.


Don't forget that you can extend the woodwinds key range. Works very well !!! I made it .


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 11, 2018)

zimm83 said:


> Don't forget that you can extend the woodwinds key range. Works very well !!! I made it .


Can help to some extent. Still no oboes or English horns.


----------



## Kevin Fortin (Dec 11, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Is it possible to somehow get the choir syllables to come out in a deterministic order, like reset the sequence by reloading the patch or something like that? The choir is one of the most interesting parts of Ark 1 for me and I'm fine with not being able to pick _each _syllable, but I wouldn't want two versions of the track that I export to have _different _choir syllables.


Was this ever answered? I would also like to know. Thanks!


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 11, 2018)

Kevin Fortin said:


> Was this ever answered?


Don't think so and while I've already bought the library, I didn't have time to do anything with it yet. Also planning to wait with that for christmas. You could check if it is possible to edit the patches in some way to remove syllable options and load one instance of the patch per syllable and then use midi channels to select the syllables. Iirc I've seen something along those lines in a walkthrough, but it might have been for a different Ark, so I'm not sure. But in many videos I've seen people demonstrate the patch and get 2x or 3x the same syllable in a row, which I thought sounds terrible and I'm confused why no one immediately complained in the walkthroughs...


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Dec 11, 2018)

Kevin Fortin said:


> Was this ever answered? I would also like to know. Thanks!



If you want to keep the same cycle of syllabes you just have to reset the Round Robin cycle before your part. This can be done in two ways in CAPSULE :

1) Programming a "RR Reset" note just before the part, as you would with a Keyswitch. There is a "RR Reset Key" parameter in CAPSULE's Controller Table View, that you can assign to the note of your choice.

2) For each Multi-Syllabes articulation (Staccato, Marcato Long & Marcato Short), go to the articulation settings and in the "Round Robin" part you should have a "Reset RR after ms". If you set it to, let's say, 3000, CAPSULE will reset the Round Robin cycle 3 seconds after the last note is played.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 11, 2018)

Ark 2 comes with both wagner tubas and ring tubas.

I've never heard of a ring tuba. Does anyone know if that's an uncommon type, or is it just what OT is calling the standard tuba?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 11, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Ark 2 comes with both wagner tubas and ring tubas.
> 
> I've never heard of a ring tuba. Does anyone know if that's an uncommon type, or is it just what OT is calling the standard tuba?


"Ring" here is one of those cute names, OT gave to the sections in Arks 1 & 2. The Hindenberg Tubas in Ark 1 don't have legato, have a slightly larger sample range, and two sample layers for sustains (mf and ff). The Ring Tuba has legato, and two sample layers pp and mp.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Dec 11, 2018)

The Hindenberg Tubas from Ark1 and the Ring Tubas from Ark2 are the same section btw. They just cover different dynamic ranges, as @jbuhler said.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 11, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Ark 2 comes with both wagner tubas and ring tubas.
> 
> I've never heard of a ring tuba. Does anyone know if that's an uncommon type, or is it just what OT is calling the standard tuba?


never mind. The ring is something the player wears.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 11, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> "Ring" here is one of those cute names, OT gave to the sections in Arks 1 & 2. The Hindenberg Tubas in Ark 1 don't have legato, have a slightly larger sample range, and two sample layers for sustains (mf and ff). The Ring Tuba has legato, and two sample layers pp and mp.


Ah, thanks for clearing that up. The labeling in their walkthrough video threw me off.





Vogner tubas are way better than wagner tubas.


----------



## erikradbo (Dec 12, 2018)

Got ark1&2. Have tried them out fiddling around making epic-ish-soft-combos. Hugely inspirational, which I sometimes forget the value of. Being a hobbyist I still often are drawn into the nitty gritty details here in the forum about minor details on special articulations or grades of total realistic legato.

While this does affect my end result, and me and my - very limited number of and low paying - customers does care, for me as first and foremost a hobbyist, the desire to use the instrument is even more important.

The arks make me want to make music, especially ark 2. Combined with some loops and sounds from the Albions it’s instant gratification 

Same thoughts regarding CTB and SStB. Sounds great, and I would be helped by a dedicated brass library. But How big is the trade-off result wise by getting adventure brass and/or Caspian, and wouldn’t they be more fun to play and an inspiration. Because in the end, if it’s not your job, its all about inspiration


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 12, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Still feeling Ark 2 must be the special one for OT, somewhat like Albion 5 Tundra for Spitfire.



It's more, trust me.


----------



## Fleer (Dec 12, 2018)

I purported that Ark2 is the “outlier” of the Metropolis series, somewhat similar to the way Tundra can be seen as an outlier to the Spitfire Albion line. Both of course are quite dissimilar when compared to one another.


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 12, 2018)

Ark 2 it is ! Lots of great options right now, but Ark 2 gets sooo much support from so many capable sources. THX !! 

_…… but, now the Ark 3 decision pops up._ _ Deadline is close.

Ark 3 does not seem to draw same accolades as Ark 2 … and then there is Ark 4._


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 12, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Ark 2 it is ! Lots of great options right now, but Ark 2 gets sooo much support from so many capable sources. THX !!
> 
> *…… now the 'Ark 3 or Ark 4' decision pops up. Deadlines are close.
> Now what ?? *


I do think you'll find Ark 2 valuable! If it's between Ark 3 and 4, then wait until we hear more from OT about Ark 4. I just don't think we have enough information on Ark 4 yet to make a good decision one way or the other. If it's between Ark 3, 4 and some other goodies, well that depends on what you are needing.


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 12, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I do think you'll find Ark 2 valuable! If it's between Ark 3 and 4, then wait until we hear more from OT about Ark 4. I just don't think we have enough information on Ark 4 yet to make a good decision one way or the other. If it's between Ark 3, 4 and some other goodies, well that depends on what you are needing.



You have been steady support here, and others as well ! We have discussed Ark 4 a bit and agree that much more info is needed. Dunno if I can handle _both_ 3 & 4 right now, but current pricing is a major factor. Now that Ark 2 is decided, much more time to focus on Ark 3 and get a better feel for what it adds to 1 & 2, BO_Inspire 1 & 2, and Time Macro.
Dang ! … a 2 & 3 Bundle would be such a cool excuse to jump. 

No more clue about SF plans than Ark 4, but ICENI is on the table thru Dec promo.. 

Nothing else in the game right now.

THX


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 12, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> No more clue about SF plans than Ark 4, but ICENI is on the table thru Dec.
> Nothing else rises to this level right now.


My guess is the only further SF sale we'll see this month is the wish list. Not that I'm the best judge at these kind of things.


----------



## axb312 (Dec 12, 2018)

Ark 1-3 sale ends in 4 days. I am hoping OT can post a decent walk-through of Ark 4 before this so I can make the correct decision (Ark 1+2 or Ark 4)...


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 12, 2018)

axb312 said:


> Ark 1-3 sale ends in 4 days. I am hoping OT can post a decent walk-through of Ark 4 before this so I can make the correct decision (Ark 1+2 or Ark 4)...


that's the part that bothers me...


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 12, 2018)

Keyboardist, not percussionist, and have Audiobro LADD. 
Struggling to sort how far this gets me in terms of passing on Ark 3 and hoping for 'miracle' Ark 4 walkthrough this week ….


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 12, 2018)

axb312 said:


> Ark 1-3 sale ends in 4 days. I am hoping OT can post a decent walk-through of Ark 4 before this so I can make the correct decision (Ark 1+2 or Ark 4)...


I sympathize with your plight but I will say that I can't imagine Ark 4 > Ark 1+2. I mean if you don't need Ark 1 + 2, you don't need them and whatever Ark 4 turns out to be doesn't change the equation. (Ark 4 may fill a need for you, but if that is the case Arks 1 + 2 won't fill that need in any case, and they should be off the table.) And Ark 4 won't be a meaningful substitute for Ark 1+2, no matter how good it is—there just isn't enough content there. One of the few things we do know about Ark 4 is that it has the smallest sample content of the four Arks, coming in at 98GB. Still, I agree that it would be nice to hear more demos and have a walkthrough so you could be more certain.


----------



## axb312 (Dec 12, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I sympathize with your plight but I will say that I can't imagine Ark 4 > Ark 1+2. I mean if you don't need Ark 1 + 2, you don't need them and whatever Ark 4 turns out to be doesn't change the equation. (Ark 4 may fill a need for you, but if that is the case Arks 1 + 2 won't fill that need in any case, and they should be off the table.) And Ark 4 won't be a meaningful substitute for Ark 1+2, no matter how good it is—there just isn't enough content there. One of the few things we do know about Ark 4 is that it has the smallest sample content of the four Arks, coming in at 98GB. Still, I agree that it would be nice to hear more demos and have a walkthrough so you could be more certain.



At this point, either option would be just to add some "color" to my palette. I am not looking to make entire compositions with the Arks (although this is definitely possible). Something about the limited dynamic range with Ark 1 and/ or Ark 2 just doesn't site well with me. So yea, really looking forward to more details on Ark 4.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 13, 2018)

For those that were curious, part 1 of 2 is here:


----------



## stixman (Dec 13, 2018)

Ark3 is more percussive so not being as you say a Percussionist imo not as useful for you.


sostenuto said:


> Keyboardist, not percussionist, and have Audiobro LADD.
> Struggling to sort how far this gets me in terms of passing on Ark 3 and hoping for 'miracle' Ark 4 walkthrough this week ….


----------



## thecomposer10 (Dec 13, 2018)

Can someone tell me if Ark I + II would be redundant if I already have SSO + HZP? What are the strengths of the OT products versus something like the Albions?


----------



## sourcefor (Dec 13, 2018)

axb312 said:


> Ark 1-3 sale ends in 4 days. I am hoping OT can post a decent walk-through of Ark 4 before this so I can make the correct decision (Ark 1+2 or Ark 4)...


Yeah I am in the same boat..CaNNOT DECIDE!


----------



## Inceptic (Dec 13, 2018)

If I don't own any epic percussion (nor orchestral percussion besides Kontakt Factory), would Ark 3 be a good first choice?


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 13, 2018)

Inceptic said:


> If I don't own any epic percussion (nor orchestral percussion besides Kontakt Factory), would Ark 3 be a good first choice?


epic = yes!
orchestral = so so


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 13, 2018)

if you don't have any arks, ark 1 + 2 is a no brainer over 4. There is way more content there - and a lot more purpose. 

ark 4 definitely seems like a supplemental library more than a stand-alone library. It's more the butter of the bread and butter. 

--------------------------------------
ofcourse the arks would have tons of differences over SSO + HZP. SSO has stronger winds and more flexible strings - but ark brass is incredible. SSB is the weakest link in SSO imo, and probably the biggest strength of the Arks. 

however, for both percussion and strings - theres something very specific about the sound, which cannot be achieved without recording it with that purpose. Even though some of the ensemble sizes are similar with SSB, the style of playing is not, and certainly not how it was recorded. Having a bunch of timpani libraries won't mimic the sound of a timpani ensemble - for instance. And having a crap ton of basses compared to celli in octaves is it's own sound, and the ark series is played with a level of aggression not captured with spitfire stuff. Which is fine, because ark I doesn't do quiet and delicate -and that's what it adds to your palette.


----------



## jjmmuir (Dec 13, 2018)

I have nothing by OT, but love the sound of the teldex stage. I am considering the Ark 2 as I prefer non-epic but for the extra money would probably get the 1+2 bundle. 

Can anyone point me towards demos that highlight the close mics more than the others. I want to see how dry these libraries can become and most demos/walk throughs I've seen don't spend much time on the mics. 

Has anyone seen anything that could help me decide?


----------



## Fleer (Dec 14, 2018)

^^^ Would like to know as well.


----------



## Forecheck (Dec 14, 2018)

I would also love to know how dry these can be. Also what about Inspire 1 or 2? Don't see anything in the pdf about mic position(s).


----------



## Inceptic (Dec 14, 2018)

Forecheck said:


> I would also love to know how dry these can be. Also what about Inspire 1 or 2? Don't see anything in the pdf about mic position(s).



The Inspires have only one mic position.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 14, 2018)

Forecheck said:


> I would also love to know how dry these can be. Also what about Inspire 1 or 2? Don't see anything in the pdf about mic position(s).


The Inspires only have 1 mic (actually I think it's a mix of several of the mic positions from the Berlin libraries but it's baked in). The Arks all have a close mic but it's not especially dry.


----------



## Forecheck (Dec 14, 2018)

So if I want dry on the OT I should look at First Chairs. And over at SFA the BHCT or SCS?? Would First Chairs be a good match for the Bernard Hermann? Would the First Chairs be redundant with SCS, or would they add spice? Thanks all!!


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 14, 2018)

Forecheck said:


> So if I want dry on the OT I should look at First Chairs. And over at SFA the BHCT or SCS?? Would First Chairs be a good match for the Bernard Hermann? Would the First Chairs be redundant with SCS, or would they add spice? Thanks all!!


I don't know what you are trying to do exactly, but I think @Parsifal666 regularly mixes Ark 2 and BHCT.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 15, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I don't know what you are trying to do exactly, but I think @Parsifal666 regularly mixes Ark 2 and BHCT.



_*Both*_ Arks and BHCT!  Also Chris Hein (I use those high woodwinds more than any other to complement the Arks) and to a lesser degree the Hollywood series (mostly because I'm still pretty much breaking in Ark 2...Hollywood always makes a dramatic re-entrance into my music sooner or later).

I often have to keep the drier libraries down in terms of volume, and sometimes have to mess with the predelay on my reverb to make sure the dry fits with the wet. And I'm hyperconscious of orchestral layout when integrating.

So, though it can take some work/patience at times, dry libraries can go just fine (or better) with the OT stuff.


----------



## Lassi Tani (Dec 15, 2018)

Got Symphonic Sphere, can't wait to test the trill orchestrator, would work great for textures. Also lots of useful articulations; I'll be using the trems a lot.

Which libraries are you using Sphere with? Do you use any eq? Reverb?


----------



## Fleer (Dec 15, 2018)

Could you compare Symphonic Sphere to something by Spitfire?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 15, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Could you compare Symphonic Sphere to something by Spitfire?


SF doesn't really have anything comparable. Sphere does mix well with SF—I use the harp and the TO patches for strings and woodwinds quite a lot with my SF libraries.


----------



## MHP (Dec 15, 2018)

Finally grabbed the Ark 1+2 bundle for that fantastic sales price and now I am on a long journey of downloading and installing until I reach the DARK SIDE OF THE SOUND...


----------



## tokatila (Dec 15, 2018)

Still haven't bought anything....now I'm worried that Ark 1 is a part of a sonic trend which will sound old-fashioned soon anyway. This is what I'm telling myself in order to save 500 bucks...


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 15, 2018)

tokatila said:


> Still haven't bought anything....now I'm worried that Ark 1 is a part of a sonic trend which will sound old-fashioned soon anyway. This is what I'm telling myself in order to save 500 bucks...


Yes, after this, everybody will have it, so it will be all you hear everywhere. Since you want to be different, you should save the money and go buy a Sonokinetic Oud for 15 euros. Because hardly anyone uses an Oud. But it's cheap, so we will buy it. Just in case.


----------



## sourcefor (Dec 15, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, after this, everybody will have it, so it will be all you hear everywhere. Since you want to be different, you should save the money and go buy a Sonokinetic Oud for 15 euros. Because hardly anyone uses an Oud. But it's cheap, so we will buy it. Just in case.


Yes maybe but its really the context in which you use it that will separate you from the rest!!! I mean alot people record at AIR and have the same string players on the recording but the way they use them is different, sometimes!!!


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 15, 2018)

tokatila said:


> Still haven't bought anything....now I'm worried that Ark 1 is a part of a sonic trend which will sound old-fashioned soon anyway. This is what I'm telling myself in order to save 500 bucks...


Arguably, Ark 1 was already a rather old-fashioned sound when it was released—their marketing evokes the film Metropolis and the sound world is generally the big, post-Wagnerian orchestral and operatic Austrian-German music from roughly 1900 to 1930 (well, to Carmina Burana). That's what I liked about initially—not the proximity to the contemporary epic but the evocation of the epic sound from that older world. Its biggest concessions to the contemporary epic—the rock band, the array of percussion hits, and the lack of upper woodwinds—are of varied success. The integration of percussion hits is a useful extension of the style and fits within the general aesthetic (think about Wagner's anvils, Mahler's hammer, or the extensive battery of percussion that Orff deploys). The rock band is neither here nor there and OT hasn't really pursued that potential. The lack of upper winds has been an issue—it's a fundamental part of the post-Wagnerian scoring palette and it's interesting to consider what the upper winds do in the post-Wagnerian orchestra, how the role of the upper woodwinds differs from the French and Russian/Soviet music of the same period, and why it is lacking in the contemporary epic sound. I could say something about the significance of muted brass and coloristic doublings as well, but I think I'll leave it there.


----------



## John Busby (Dec 15, 2018)

Just purchased Ark 3


----------



## whiskers (Dec 15, 2018)

johnbusbymusic said:


> Just purchased Ark 3


What did you feel that offered that drew you to it?


----------



## Michel Simons (Dec 15, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, after this, everybody will have it, so it will be all you hear everywhere. Since you want to be different, you should save the money and go buy a Sonokinetic Oud for 15 euros. Because hardly anyone uses an Oud. But it's cheap, so we will buy it. Just in case.



Don't bother. I already used an Oud years ago in a Dead Can Dance-ish song which eventually morphed into a dark heavy rock tune. I believe it came from Ethno World 2. It didn't keep me from buying the Sonokinetic Oud earlier this year, because, well, you can never have enough Ouds.


----------



## John Busby (Dec 15, 2018)

whiskers said:


> What did you feel that offered that drew you to it?


Couple things
1- the percussion
2- the BIGness

i'm writing a LOT of rhythmic orchestral stuff, A3 seems like it would be more to me than just a "sketching" tool.
and i friggin love percussion so...
The multis are also very attractive and something A1 & 2 do not have.


----------



## JonSolo (Dec 15, 2018)

Oud...purchased.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 15, 2018)

sourcefor said:


> Yes maybe but its really the context in which you use it that will separate you from the rest!!! I mean alot people record at AIR and have the same string players on the recording but the way they use them is different, sometimes!!!


LOL, just trying to help someone not spend money. Not a serious statement


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 15, 2018)

Darn it! Looking at OSR YouTube videos trying to figure out if I need want it and um accidentally watched a Sphere review. I thought it was more harps, which weren’t that exciting to me. But the string sound really good. But so do the runs. And Ark 3. Decisions, decisions....


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 15, 2018)

johnbusbymusic said:


> i'm writing a LOT of rhythmic orchestral stuff, A3 seems like it would be more to me than just a "sketching" tool.


A3 seems like it would be a big time saver for this kind of thing.


dzilizzi said:


> Darn it! Looking at OSR YouTube videos trying to figure out if I need want it and um accidentally watched a Sphere review. I thought it was more harps, which weren’t that exciting to me. But the string sound really good. But so do the runs. And Ark 3. Decisions, decisions....


The harp is fine in Sphere, but the trills orchestrator patches are why I keep it around.


----------



## Kony (Dec 15, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, after this, everybody will have it, so it will be all you hear everywhere


I heard Ark1 on The Apprentice a couple of nights ago....


----------



## Fleer (Dec 15, 2018)

Kony said:


> I heard Ark1 on The Apprentice a couple of nights ago....


Don’t call him that, he’s sensitive.


----------



## Hat_Tricky (Dec 15, 2018)

Anyone know if we can still use the vouchers OT gave out on Inspire 1 purchases? Using it on the Ark I+II bundle a possibility? I still have the 100 dollar voucher requiring a large purchase of 600+...


----------



## whiskers (Dec 15, 2018)

Hat_Tricky said:


> Anyone know if we can still use the vouchers OT gave out on Inspire 1 purchases? Using it on the Ark I+II bundle a possibility? I still have the 100 dollar voucher requiring a large purchase of 600+...


You check out through NI, so doubtful.


----------



## zimm83 (Dec 15, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> A3 seems like it would be a big time saver for this kind of thing.
> 
> The harp is fine in Sphere, but the trills orchestrator patches are why I keep it around.


Just noticed there are 10 trill orchestrator sections in Ark4 .....Awesome not ???


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 15, 2018)

zimm83 said:


> Just noticed there are 10 trill orchestrator sections in Ark4 .....Awesome not ???


Maybe. If they are fully implemented, yes.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 15, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> A3 seems like it would be a big time saver for this kind of thing.



Although I don't own it, I also think its more than a time saver.
For fast tempo tracks, creating ostinatos with the same note will create a machine gun effect even if you have 8RRs.
Even if you play it in, edit midi like hell, and even play around with TM, it still sounds robotic. (this isn't really the case if you're using different notes)
So for fast tempo track, I feel nothing can beat performed repetitions, which is where Ark3 has its strengths.

The problem is mixing with other libraries. AFAIK, the positioning of the sections is unique compared to other libraries.
I think I've seen low strings(cello/contrabass) in the middle.
So owning Ark1/2 feels like a must, unless you're going to create a tracking solely with Ark3. (which is the down side)


----------



## Solarsentinel (Dec 16, 2018)

I don't understand why everybody run over that sales... Mostly if they already have libraries that cover an orchestra (albion, symphobia, EW, etc...)
Ok Ark is powerfull and have all the tools for epic music, but when you have already that in your tools, i don't think it add more than loudness. Maybe i'm wrong i don't have any arks. But i think the power of a piece is brought by the orchestration not by the loudness. I don't talk about ark 3 because it's more a percussion library, but for ark 1 & 2, i really feel like it just loud.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 16, 2018)

Raphioli said:


> So for fast tempo track, I feel nothing can beat performed repetitions, which is where Ark3 has its strengths.


In theory, yes. Personally going by NI Action Strings though, I'm not putting much faith into the concept anymore. I don't like how it sounds transposed and time-stretched and you can't always base your track tempo on the original source recording tempo. Also they sampled too few semi tones, not sure how generous OT's sampling is there, don't have Ark 3.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 16, 2018)

Solarsentinel said:


> I don't understand why everybody run over that sales... Mostly if they already have libraries that cover an orchestra (albion, symphobia, EW, etc...)
> Ok Ark is powerfull and have all the tools for epic music, but when you have already that in your tools, i don't think it add more than loudness. Maybe i'm wrong i don't have any arks. But i think the power of a piece is brought by the orchestration not by the loudness. I don't talk about ark 3 because it's more a percussion library, but for ark 1 & 2, i really feel like it just loud.


Even Arks 1 and 3 are not just loud, and Ark 2 isn’t loud at all. They have a wonderful dark sound and their approach to ensembles is usefully different from other ensemble libraries. They also have a large number of excellent sounding and useful patches. I use something from Arks 1 & 2 in almost everything I write, and I don’t even write especially epic stuff.


----------



## Sensium (Dec 16, 2018)

Yesterday I got Ark1 + Ark2. This night I created a new template with VEP. Now by testing I've found that many samples have noise on certain notes. Also, the volume is very different on the keyboard, the same instrument. For a professional product I do not expect such massive mistakes. Did you notice that too?


----------



## thecomposer10 (Dec 16, 2018)

I just picked up Ark 1 and Ark 2! Really excited to give them a spin – especially for the choirs and the creative string arrangements.


----------



## Solarsentinel (Dec 16, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Maybe. If they are fully implemented, yes.


Do you have an example who can be hear? I'm very curious about that use of arks. Because i'm searching something for dark, but actually i think albion 3 is more aimed for that purpose.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 16, 2018)

Solarsentinel said:


> Do you have an example who can be hear? I'm very curious about that use of arks. Because i'm searching something for dark, but actually i think albion 3 is more aimed for that purpose.


Ark 4 isn't out yet, so I have no idea what the TO patches sound like beyond what was in the walkthrough.


----------



## Josh Richman (Dec 16, 2018)

I'm torn. I already have pretty much everything EW & Spitfire make. Should I jump on this and buy the inspire package?


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 16, 2018)

Josh Richman said:


> I'm torn. I already have pretty much everything EW & Spitfire make. Should I jump on this and buy the inspire package?


No. 

The Arks, on the other hand, may be useful. And the OSR or Sphere. But not Inspire


----------



## SirKen (Dec 16, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> No.
> 
> The Arks, on the other hand, may be useful. And the OSR or Sphere. But not Inspire



I am on the fence with OSR and Sphere. How useful are they really? It would have been really nice to actually get a peek at the Capsule upgrade for both of them.


----------



## JT (Dec 16, 2018)

Josh Richman said:


> I'm torn. I already have pretty much everything EW & Spitfire make. Should I jump on this and buy the inspire package?


And I have the opposite experience from dzilizzi, I also have many Spitfire libraries. I bought both the Arks and Inspires that are on sale. And with the type of music I write, Inspire will be something I use alot. Glad I bought it.

For example, the piano in Inspire 2 is great for what I use. Yet, I wanted a little more of an ethereal quality, so I layered it with the Spitfire Olafar piano and it gave me exactly what I needed for the piece I'm working on now.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 16, 2018)

SirKen said:


> I am on the fence with OSR and Sphere. How useful are they really? It would have been really nice to actually get a peek at the Capsule upgrade for both of them.


Capsule was a nice upgrade for Sphere. I found that it made the library as a whole much more useable.


----------



## SirKen (Dec 16, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Capsule was a nice upgrade for Sphere. I found that it made the library as a whole much more useable.



Is there a place where I can see how the Runs Builder interface work with Capsule? If it is not too much work, may I ask you to post some screenshots?


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 16, 2018)

SirKen said:


> Is there a place where I can see how the Runs Builder interface work with Capsule? If it is not too much work, may I ask you to post some screenshots?


I don’t have Runs Builder—I’ve been thinking of getting it myself. Anything you’d like to see from Sphere?


----------



## SirKen (Dec 16, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I don’t have Runs Builder—I’ve been thinking of getting it myself. Anything you’d like to see from Sphere?



Ah, no worries then. Sphere is easier to visualize within the Capsule interface.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 16, 2018)

JT said:


> And I have the opposite experience from dzilizzi, I also have many Spitfire libraries. I bought both the Arks and Inspires that are on sale. And with the type of music I write, Inspire will be something I use alot. Glad I bought it.
> 
> For example, the piano in Inspire 2 is great for what I use. Yet, I wanted a little more of an ethereal quality, so I layered it with the Spitfire Olafar piano and it gave me exactly what I needed for the piece I'm working on now.


Generally, the Inspires are a general use sketching library. If you only have money to buy one or the other, the Arks are probably different enough to be more useful to most.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 16, 2018)

Well, I went got the OSR downloaded and installed. I played with it for a bit. The runs builder does look useful. Not worth the full price as far as I'm concerned. But maybe the sales price. I'm thinking if you know how to program runs, they may not be that useful. I had a problem of sticking notes/phrases that were annoying. The nice thing is I do get some usable string articulations which, since I don't have Berlin strings, might be nice.

They have whole/half note trills as well. This makes the Sphere only really good if I want wider trills. Sphere lets you do trills between root and 4th and root and 5th, which is kind of nice, plus multi note trills. Trills aren't easily programmed from what I have tried. And more instruments. Because they both come with some other articulations so you can go into/end the runs and trills. No legatos, but a lot of the other ones. I'm trying to compare it with the Arks.

The lower strings, winds and brass can't do the fancy trills - at least per the reviews and documentation I found. And my Berlin Winds do the trills including root/4th trills and the root/5th trills. But I don't have the strings or brass and probably won't be buying them anytime soon. One more day to think about it.


----------



## Rey (Dec 16, 2018)

Hi anyone can suggest Is it better to get Berlin 1 and 2, or just metropolis ark 1?Currently I don't have woodwinds and brass but have some strings library


----------



## whiskers (Dec 16, 2018)

Rey said:


> Hi anyone can suggest Is it better to get Berlin 1 and 2, or just metropolis ark 1?Currently I don't have woodwinds and brass but have some strings library


Ark has a more focused, darker (and often epic) feel. Inspire is more of an 'orchestra lite' sketching Library. (It's not that lite, there's a lot you can do with it.)

So it depends on what you're going for. watch the youtube walkthroughs and read this thread and the other one or two orchestral tool sale threads, this topic has been brought up multiple times. Hope it helps.


----------



## Rey (Dec 16, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Ark has a more focused, darker (and often epic) feel. Inspire is more of an 'orchestra lite' sketching Library. (It's not that lite, there's a lot you can do with it.)
> 
> So it depends on what you're going for. watch the youtube walkthroughs and read this thread and the other one or two orchestral tool sale threads, this topic has been brought up multiple times. Hope it helps.



Awesome. Thank you 
@whiskers


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 16, 2018)

Rey said:


> Hi anyone can suggest Is it better to get Berlin 1 and 2, or just metropolis ark 1?Currently I don't have woodwinds and brass but have some strings library


Ark 1 won’t give you much in terms of woodwinds, and nothing for upper woodwinds. It has excellent brass, but at high dynamics, so it’s somewhat limited.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 16, 2018)

Staying content with just picking up Ark 1&2... My wallet had suffered enough


----------



## Rey (Dec 16, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Ark 1 won’t give you much in terms of woodwinds, and nothing for upper woodwinds. It has excellent brass, but at high dynamics, so it’s somewhat limited.


What about ark 2


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 16, 2018)

Rey said:


> What about ark 2


Ark 2 is more versatile and has some excellent woodwinds, especially the bass and alto flute, but it doesn't go any higher than that—the Arks are lacking in upper woodwinds in general, though Ark 4 will remedy that to some extent. Some say they have had luck pitching up the Ark 2 winds to cover more of the traditional flute and clarinet range, but there's still no oboe or English horn (essential to the post-Wagnerian orchestra that I take the Arks as modeling), and what's available on Ark 4 is available only in combinations. Ark 2 strings are also more versatile than those in Ark 1. And the soft brass in Ark 2 is lovely. Still, the Ark 1&2 combination is excellent, a steal at the current NI pricing, and fairly complete aside from lacking the upper winds and muted brass, if that dark, rich sound is the sonic palette that suits you.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 16, 2018)

Rey said:


> What about ark 2


it's a little more all around compared to 1, but it's still lacking a decent piece of the orchestra here and there. The Ark series is more stylistic and going for a particular feel than a general orchestra library


----------



## Michel Simons (Dec 16, 2018)

SirKen said:


> I am on the fence with OSR and Sphere. How useful are they really? It would have been really nice to actually get a peek at the Capsule upgrade for both of them.



I had my eye on OSR as well, but a lack of recent and decent walkthroughs and reviews (as far as I can see) means that I am going to let that one pass.


----------



## Rey (Dec 16, 2018)

whiskers said:


> it's a little more all around compared to 1, but it's still lacking a decent piece of the orchestra here and there. The Ark series is more stylistic and going for a particular feel than a general orchestra library





jbuhler said:


> Ark 2 is more versatile and has some excellent woodwinds, especially the bass and alto flute, but it doesn't go any higher than that—the Arks are lacking in upper woodwinds in general, though Ark 4 will remedy that to some extent. Some say they have had luck pitching up the Ark 2 winds to cover more of the traditional flute and clarinet range, but there's still no oboe or English horn (essential to the post-Wagnerian orchestra that I take the Arks as modeling), and what's available on Ark 4 is available only in combinations. Ark 2 strings are also more versatile than those in Ark 1. And the soft brass in Ark 2 is lovely. Still, the Ark 1&2 combination is excellent, a steal at the current NI pricing, and fairly complete aside from lacking the upper winds and muted brass, if that dark, rich sound is the sonic palette that suits you.



In that case I might have to turn to something else. Amadeus or spitfire's. thanks for the help guys!


----------



## Sensium (Dec 17, 2018)

The first time I will return an instrument. I bought Metropolis ARK1 and 2 and am disappointed! The last 16 hours I have tested samples and come to the conclusion that it still has many errors in the samples after 2 years. In addition, some instruments are not time accurate playable. As a satisfied user of BWW, I find ARK1 and 2 still too expensive for 500 euros, with these unplayable samples! Too bad, because I was looking forward to a useful, professional product.


----------



## kelexys (Dec 17, 2018)

Still not sure about the whole thing! I want to buy the inspire bundle, but I have some questions for some of you who own this already.

I'm looking for a library to use in cinematic and orchestral music, obviously, but I also want the instruments to use in pop music, like ballads. Do you guys think the inspire collection is suitable for hybrid usage? Would the strings and brass mix well with, for example, a lead vocal. 

Do the samples sound good enough to use in media? Let's say, for example, I compose this song with Inspire, and pitch the song to a director or production company etc., Will the sounds of this library be convincing enough, or does it comes short in professional use? I must say I do like the sound from all the demo's and video's I've been watching the last couple of days

Is it possible to achieve a huge sound with Inspire? Is it possible to ge epic, when it's needed, with these samples? Maybe with good compression and post production? I know you all will advise Ark 1 for this, but I need a more versatile library  And money is not growing on trees :D

Thanks in advance!


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 17, 2018)

Sensium said:


> The first time I will return an instrument.



Let us know how that goes. I'm not sure if they offer refunds.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 17, 2018)

Sensium said:


> The first time I will return an instrument. I bought Metropolis ARK1 and 2 and am disappointed! The last 16 hours I have tested samples and come to the conclusion that it still has many errors in the samples after 2 years. In addition, some instruments are not time accurate playable. As a satisfied user of BWW, I find ARK1 and 2 still too expensive for 500 euros, with these unplayable samples! Too bad, because I was looking forward to a useful, professional product.



I don't think it is refundable. Especially after you've used it.
But I appreciate your review. Because I was/am a bit sick of developers leaving unfixed bugs and releasing new products. (they should be prioritizing bug fixes, especially if an expensive product isn't refundable imho.)
This is not just the case with OT though, unfortunately.
All you can do is keep pushing support to release fixes.

BTW, I'm surprised to see you saying "*many* error", because while I've seen people mention the noise in Ark 2, I haven't really heard of anything regarding major bugs in Ark 1.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2018)

Raphioli said:


> I don't think it is refundable. Especially after you've used it.
> But I appreciate your review. Because I was/am a bit sick of developers leaving unfixed bugs and releasing new products. (they should be prioritizing bug fixes, especially if an expensive product isn't refundable imho.)
> This is not just the case with OT though, unfortunately.
> All you can do is keep pushing support to release fixes.
> ...


Yes, one thing about OT is that they do not update frequently, so there is little routine maintenance. (They do however update older products occasionally so stuff isn’t simply abandoned.) I have not found any major problems in either of the Arks, and even the noise issue with Ark 2 rarely comes into play. Lots of irritating things like incorrect ranges set so samples don’t play until you fix it, but nothing I can’t DIY or workaround. And the issues are on par with other libraries of this size. I use the libraries a lot.


----------



## zimm83 (Dec 17, 2018)

Raphioli said:


> I don't think it is refundable. Especially after you've used it.
> But I appreciate your review. Because I was/am a bit sick of developers leaving unfixed bugs and releasing new products. (they should be prioritizing bug fixes, especially if an expensive product isn't refundable imho.)
> This is not just the case with OT though, unfortunately.
> All you can do is keep pushing support to release fixes.
> ...



?
No reported bugs in Arks.....I have all the arks and don't have any bugs........
I use them exclusively .....everyday.......like many many users .....


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 17, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Yes, one thing about OT is that they do not update frequently, so there is little routine maintenance. (They do however update older products occasionally so stuff isn’t simply abandoned.) I have not found any major problems in either of the Arks, and even the noise issue with Ark 2 rarely comes into play. Lots of irritating things like incorrect ranges set so samples don’t play until you fix it, but nothing I can’t DIY or workaround. And the issues are on par with other libraries of this size. I use the libraries a lot.



My opinion comes from Sensium's review. Also, look at my second paragraph, I mentioned that just to be fair. I've also looked through many other users reviews.
And I also appreciate your review too 



zimm83 said:


> ?????????????????????????????


No need for the "???" spam zimm83.
Like I've said above, my opinion is based on Sensiums review.
If anyone, that "???" should be aimed at him/her.

You should look at my 2nd paragraph as well.
Its not like I've ignored other users reviews.


----------



## Henu (Dec 17, 2018)

Raphioli said:


> the noise in Ark 2



As far as I am concerned (going to buy Ark 2 later today so I can be wrong), the noise comes from the fact that people are trying to use pp- performed stuff in an ff- environment.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 17, 2018)

Henu said:


> As far as I am concerned (going to buy Ark 2 later today so I can be wrong), the noise comes from the fact that people are trying to use pp- performed stuff in an ff- environment.



Thats what I was assuming as well.
Since I've read about noise issues in Tundra as well.

I was just surprised that Sensium mentioned he/she bought Ark 1 and Ark 2 and said they have "many errors". Like I've said, the only error/bug I was aware after reading many users reviews were the noise in Ark 2 only.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2018)

Raphioli said:


> My opinion comes from Sensium's review. Also, look at my second paragraph, I mentioned that just to be fair. I've also looked through many other users reviews.
> And I also appreciate your review too


I agree with you that it's annoying when developers leave things unfixed for years, and any issue in Arks 1 or 2 is now going on being unaddressed for two and three years, so yes it's super annoying! On the other hand, I don't find any issue in the Arks to be so serious as to impede regular use. I was just hoping to clarify that after @Sensium's report of difficulty.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 17, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I agree with you that it's annoying when developers leave things unfixed for years, and any issue in Arks 1 or 2 is now going on being unaddressed for two and three years, so yes it's super annoying! On the other hand, I don't find any issue in the Arks to be so serious as to impede regular use. I was just hoping to clarify that after @Sensium's report of difficulty.



Completely agree.
And I appreciate your clarification.


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 17, 2018)

Sensium said:


> The first time I will return an instrument. I bought Metropolis ARK1 and 2 and am disappointed! The last 16 hours I have tested samples and come to the conclusion that it still has many errors in the samples after 2 years. In addition, some instruments are not time accurate playable. As a satisfied user of BWW, I find ARK1 and 2 still too expensive for 500 euros, with these unplayable samples! Too bad, because I was looking forward to a useful, professional product.



(cracking up)

Uh, maybe try taking a nap before messing with those libraries again.


----------



## SirKen (Dec 17, 2018)

Henu said:


> As far as I am concerned (going to buy Ark 2 later today so I can be wrong), *the noise comes from the fact that people are trying to use pp- performed stuff in an ff- environment*.



That and bad looping points on some of the samples. When you buy it, check out the mid strings sustains and tremolos.


----------



## kelexys (Dec 17, 2018)

kelexys said:


> Still not sure about the whole thing! I want to buy the inspire bundle, but I have some questions for some of you who own this already.
> 
> I'm looking for a library to use in cinematic and orchestral music, obviously, but I also want the instruments to use in pop music, like ballads. Do you guys think the inspire collection is suitable for hybrid usage? Would the strings and brass mix well with, for example, a lead vocal.
> 
> ...


 I also should mention that I already own CSS, so I need good Brass and woodwind. The piano and choirs also sounded nice in the Inspire demo's


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 17, 2018)

Sensium said:


> I find ARK1 and 2 still too expensive for 500 euros, with these unplayable samples!


I'm checking Ark 2 for noise right now. Out of the box, I can hear the noise floor in the strings, but not enough that it bothers me or seems abnormal given the situation.

Then, with dynamics in mind, I adjust -10 db and it's a non-issue.

If there's anything specific that folks are finding unacceptable, I'd be curious to hear what articulation and notes so I can try to replicate the problem.

EDIT: I output a quick test. High/mid/low string sustains, all simultaneously playing chords from quietest to loudest. Didn't adjust volume, everything is straight out of the box. You can decide for yourself if the noise is unplayable or not. Keep in mind the loudest dynamic is equivalent to MP.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/ark-2-strings-test-01-mp3.17198/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## SirKen (Dec 17, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'm checking Ark 2 for noise right now. Out of the box, I can hear the noise floor in the strings, but not enough that it bothers me or seems abnormal given the situation.
> 
> Then, with dynamics in mind, I adjust -10 db and it's a non-issue.
> 
> If there's anything specific that folks are finding unacceptable, I'd be curious to hear what articulation and notes so I can try to replicate the problem.



This would be a start
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/ark-2-extreme-noise.58432/page-4#post-4034757


----------



## Parsifal666 (Dec 17, 2018)

No offense meant to anybody, but has anyone else wondered if some members here spend far more time playing with their new library toys (stacking them against other, legato-mania, etc.) than making music with them?

And...perhaps even spend more time here than the same?

Again, no judgements or anything negative meant at all; however people find to entertain themselves without hurting anyone else is perfectly fine imo, more power to everybody!


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 17, 2018)

Here is was written in the post linked above.


WindcryMusic said:


> However, one glaring exception is the "thumps" in the Strings Mid Tremolo Fast articulation, which appear on most of the notes, not just D#3 thru F3 as was reported here earlier. You have to hold each note for about six seconds before it appears, but frankly it sounds like bad loop points, really bad in fact. I have to agree that this articulation is not usable for any long held tremolo notes in its current state. That's pretty disappointing.



Here is a test. I cannot hear the problem. Maybe OT fixed it?

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/ark-2-strings-test-02-mp3.17199/][/AUDIOPLUS]


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I'm checking Ark 2 for noise right now. Out of the box, I can hear the noise floor in the strings, but not enough that it bothers me or seems abnormal given the situation.
> 
> Then, with dynamics in mind, I adjust -10 db and it's a non-issue.
> 
> ...


Are you finding any issues with the Ark 2 legatos in low and mid strings? They give me trouble but no one else seems to be bothered by them so I’m trying to figure out if it’s just me.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Here is was written in the post linked above.
> 
> 
> Here is a test. I cannot hear the problem. Maybe OT fixed it?
> ...


I do think those who bought on the NI sale got a new version that will be run out to the rest of us in the coming weeks. The Capsule versions are different from what I have and they had to make them NKS compatible. So maybe they fixed some of these things.


----------



## TheSigillite (Dec 17, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Here is was written in the post linked above.
> 
> 
> Here is a test. I cannot hear the problem. Maybe OT fixed it?
> ...


I couldn't hear anything either.


----------



## SirKen (Dec 17, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Here is was written in the post linked above.
> 
> 
> Here is a test. I cannot hear the problem. Maybe OT fixed it?
> ...



I think OT might have finally fixed it after 2 years.

Just tested it on my end (previous non-NKS version) and I can hear the rythmic clicking/thumping on that patch.


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 17, 2018)

Parsifal666 said:


> No offense meant to anybody, but has anyone else wondered if some members here spend far more time playing with their new library toys (stacking them against other,[...], etc.) than making music with them?
> 
> And...perhaps even spend more time here than the same?
> 
> Again, no judgements or anything negative meant at all; however people find to entertain themselves without hurting anyone else is perfectly fine imo, more power to everybody!



Guilty as charged! Quitting the forum would be the number one productivity hack for me. But in my defense, the crushing loneliness of working alone from home is starting to get to me...


----------



## sostenuto (Dec 17, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Guilty as charged! Quitting the forum would be the number one productivity hack for me. But in my defense, the crushing loneliness of working alone from home is starting to get to me...



Cool post, but no guilt whatever  
Similar circumstances here, and trying darn hard to make best of it. So much help here, with many enjoyable searches /purchases /uses. 
Priorities are very salient and personal. If I never 'make (credible) music' … time here will have been very rewarding and enjoyable. THX all !

Best regards *@ MartinH. *


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 17, 2018)

Did anyone get Symphonic Sphere during the sale (or before)? I’m still on the fence and would like to hear how much you use the trill functions among other things.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2018)

MartinH. said:


> Guilty as charged! Quitting the forum would be the number one productivity hack for me. But in my defense, the crushing loneliness of working alone from home is starting to get to me...


Yes, this is my water cooler! And a lot more interesting than talking about work stuff. (I'm not in music) However, I am on vacation until the end of the year...unless they call me.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 17, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> Are you finding any issues with the Ark 2 legatos in low and mid strings? They give me trouble but no one else seems to be bothered by them so I’m trying to figure out if it’s just me.


Not yet, but I haven't spent much time with them. If I notice something, I'll post it.

@Sensium -- If you could post an example of the noise you are talking about, I'd be curious to hear it. If memory serves, there were some posts in the Time Macro thread where OT offered to fix a bug and send a patch to a users, so it might be worth contacting them.



jbuhler said:


> So maybe they fixed some of these things.


It appears that they did.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 17, 2018)

(Moved from the Ark 4 Thread)

I don't think anyone's mentioned in this thread, but Berlin Strings Expansion E contains a Trills Orchestrator patch as well. It's strings only, and the string count corresponds to the size of Berlin Strings, so it's not entirely the same thing.

Berlin Woodwinds Legacy has the Trills Orchestrator for most individual wind instruments as well. Again, different recording session from Orchestral Spheres, which only offers a wind ensemble.

For those looking at Orchestral String Runs, you might be interested to know that BWW Legacy contains the same Runs Builder, but for Flutes 8va and Clarinets Ensemble. I think BWW contains BWW Legacy, though I don't know for sure because I only own Legacy.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 17, 2018)

@Land of Missing Parts 
Thanks for those examples. I didn't hear any problematic noises in those.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> (Moved from the Ark 4 Thread)
> 
> I don't think anyone's mentioned in this thread, but Berlin Strings Expansion E contains a Trills Orchestrator patch as well. It's strings only, and the string count corresponds to the size of Berlin Strings, so it's not entirely the same thing.
> 
> ...


I noticed that the BWW does trills and runs similar to what you would get with OSR and Sphere. But I don't have the Berlin strings and brass. And it will be a while if ever that I get them. Can you buy an expansion if you don't own the strings? What i like about Sphere is you can do more than a whole/half trill, but for me, it is on the strings. Also they do have a lot of string articulations. Trying to compare with what I have with the Arks to see if it is worth getting. Probably not for me.


----------



## pmcrockett (Dec 17, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> I noticed that the BWW does trills and runs similar to what you would get with OSR and Sphere. But I don't have the Berlin strings and brass. And it will be a while if ever that I get them. Can you buy an expansion if you don't own the strings? What i like about Sphere is you can do more than a whole/half trill, but for me, it is on the strings. Also they do have a lot of string articulations. Trying to compare with what I have with the Arks to see if it is worth getting. Probably not for me.


I don't own either, but judging from the patch descriptions, the trills in Sphere are unmeasured and those in Berlin Strings Exp E are measured/tempo-synced, so they're not strictly equivalent. Sphere also has them in sul ponticello.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2018)

pmcrockett said:


> I don't own either, but judging from the patch descriptions, the trills in Sphere are unmeasured and those in Berlin Strings Exp E are measured/tempo-synced, so they're not strictly equivalent. Sphere also has them in sul ponticello.


In Sphere, Ponticello trills are only half and whole step. That's true for most of the other TO patches (except the basic TO trill patches for violin, viola, cello, and woodwind ensemble, which go to a perfect 5th).


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 17, 2018)

Thanks to all. I've got BWW but not Berlin Strings. I'll probably pass on Symphonic Sphere and get Berlin Symphonic Harps instead in the future.


----------



## pmcrockett (Dec 17, 2018)

Downloading Sphere now. I've wanted large interval string trills (or fingered tremolo, to use the technically correct name) ever since I got into orchestral sample libraries, but I didn't know until this sale happened that there were libraries that actually had the technique.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2018)

pmcrockett said:


> Downloading Sphere now. I've wanted large interval string trills (or fingered tremolo, to use the technically correct name) ever since I got into orchestral sample libraries, but I didn't know until this sale happened that there were libraries that actually had the technique.


Yes, for whatever reason, OT decided to call it the trills patch and the trills orchestrator. One neat thing is that you can actually play four note chords with the TO and it will divide them into upper and lower pairs. I find that especially nice in the woodwinds.


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 17, 2018)

pmcrockett said:


> Downloading Sphere now. I've wanted large interval string trills (or fingered tremolo, to use the technically correct name) ever since I got into orchestral sample libraries, but I didn't know until this sale happened that there were libraries that actually had the technique.





jbuhler said:


> Yes, for whatever reason, OT decided to call it the trills patch and the trills orchestrator. One neat thing is that you can actually play four note chords with the TO and it will divide them into upper and lower pairs. I find that especially nice in the woodwinds.


I didn't realize that. I went back and checked the instrument and articulation PDF. I saw how much content there was and figured it would be worth combining with Time Macro. Bought.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> One neat thing is that you can actually play four note chords with the TO and it will divide them into upper and lower pairs. I find that especially nice in the woodwinds.


I forgot that you can actually do more notes at the same time, though the Capsule engine is a bit picky about how you do it and so doesn't always get them all. (It only works with pairs however, so 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, etc. notes at a time.)


----------



## whiskers (Dec 17, 2018)

galactic orange said:


> I didn't realize that. I went back and checked the instrument and articulation PDF. I saw how much content there was and figured it would be worth combining with Time Macro. Bought.


See I was thinking about this... Still not sure. Wondering if it'd be redundant to Time Macro and Heavyocity intimate textures.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2018)

whiskers said:


> See I was thinking about this... Still not sure. Wondering if it'd be redundant to Time Macro and Heavyocity intimate textures.


No, not really redundant at all, I think. Whether it will be useful is another thing entirely. TM and Sphere both have trem harmonics, and they are close in sound, but Sphere has both pont trills and trems, and I don't think TM has either of those. Sphere also has some nice trill and trem waves (OT calls them "sweeps"). The open fifths are nice (though there is a glitch in my version that won't respond to note off after 20 seconds or so of droning and so has to be killed in the engine—better report that bug to OT). The ensemble size of IT is such that I don't think you'll find redundancy. I checked the sul pont trems against those in SCS and SSS, and those in Sphere are more aggressive. Whether that's good or bad... If you want to hear anything I can put something up.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 17, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> No, not really redundant at all, I think. Whether it will be useful is another thing entirely. TM and Sphere both have trem harmonics, and they are close in sound, but Sphere has both pont trills and trems, and I don't think TM has either of those. Sphere also has some nice trill and trem waves (OT calls them "sweeps"). The open fifths are nice (though there is a glitch in my version that won't respond to note off after 20 seconds or so of droning and so has to be killed in the engine—better report that bug to OT). The ensemble size of IT is such that I don't think you'll find redundancy. I checked the sul pont trems against those in SCS and SSS, and those in Sphere are more aggressive. Whether that's good or bad... If you want to hear anything I can put something up.



Thanks man. I'll have to think about this a bit more. On the fence still


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2018)

whiskers said:


> Thanks man. I'll have to think about this a bit more. On the fence still


Yes, me too. I keep thinking I really don't need it. But then I look at it again. It is very tempting.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 17, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, me too. I keep thinking I really don't need it. But then I look at it again. It is very tempting.


yeah. The harps sound good but that's not what I'm after. Just wondering how useful it'd be when it comes to the strings. IDK, maybe I should just save the 150$


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, me too. I keep thinking I really don't need it. But then I look at it again. It is very tempting.


I don’t want to oversell it because it is limited, but with this sale it is a relatively inexpensive extension into some useful articulations not commonly included in other libraries.


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 17, 2018)

galactic orange said:


> Thanks to all. I've got BWW but not Berlin Strings. I'll probably pass on Symphonic Sphere and get Berlin Symphonic Harps instead in the future.


Since I decided to get Sphere, I'll wait on the Berlin Symphonic Harps. Who knows, maybe that will go on sale sometime in the future too...


----------



## whiskers (Dec 17, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I don’t want to oversell it because it is limited, but with this sale it is a relatively inexpensive extension into some useful articulations not commonly included in other libraries.


Hmmm. Yeah. Seems more dynamic than OSR, just gotta figure if it adds enough to be worth it. Ugh I suck at decisions.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 17, 2018)

heck of a deal on the grands too, though I haven't looked at them. Good thing I already have plenty of pianos!


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I don’t want to oversell it because it is limited, but with this sale it is a relatively inexpensive extension into some useful articulations not commonly included in other libraries.


This is why it is a hard decision. It is above what I would consider a no-brainer price, but I would have to buy the strings section, which is a lot more, to get this. And I really don't need any more string sections.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2018)

whiskers said:


> heck of a deal on the grands too, though I haven't looked at them. Good thing I already have plenty of pianos!


Yeah, that one is a no-brainer No for me. I have a lot of pianos. Many are very good. I didn't see anything anywhere that said these were amazing pianos.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 17, 2018)

@jbuhler - SS doesn't require Berlin series does it?


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 17, 2018)

whiskers said:


> @jbuhler - SS doesn't require Berlin series does it?


No. It is a stand alone.


----------



## jbuhler (Dec 17, 2018)

whiskers said:


> @jbuhler - SS doesn't require Berlin series does it?


Nope.


----------



## Fever Phoenix (Dec 18, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> Yes, me too. I keep thinking I really don't need it. But then I look at it again. It is very tempting.



same here, but my gut tells me to get MA 4


----------



## tokatila (Dec 18, 2018)

I did it. Bought nothing!!! It has been stressful couple of weeks. Had the thing 3 times in my basket already.


----------



## pmcrockett (Dec 18, 2018)

jbuhler said:


> I forgot that you can actually do more notes at the same time, though the Capsule engine is a bit picky about how you do it and so doesn't always get them all. (It only works with pairs however, so 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, etc. notes at a time.)


There's a switch labeled _End Tone = Start Tone_ that, when flipped, lets you play an arbitrary number of notes with new trills between the two most recent notes -- so this allows you to do, for example, three notes at a time.


----------



## Fever Phoenix (Dec 18, 2018)

tokatila said:


> I did it. Bought nothing!!! It has been stressful couple of weeks. Had the thing 3 times in my basket already.




haha! me only once! watched the countdown go down to 00 00 00 00 though ..


----------



## MartinH. (Dec 18, 2018)

tokatila said:


> I did it. Bought nothing!!! It has been stressful couple of weeks. Had the thing 3 times in my basket already.



I'm legit proud of you! You've prevailed where many of us caved in to fomo.


----------



## Michel Simons (Dec 18, 2018)

tokatila said:


> I did it. Bought nothing!!! It has been stressful couple of weeks. Had the thing 3 times in my basket already.



Me too. I was in doubt about both Inspire libraries and the OSR, but in the end managed to contain myself. There's enough other stuff to worry about.


----------



## galactic orange (Dec 18, 2018)

tokatila said:


> I did it. Bought nothing!!! It has been stressful couple of weeks. Had the thing 3 times in my basket already.


Yeah I totally caved. Props to you and those who are capable of exercising restraint. Apparently I am not of your ilk.


----------



## merlinhimself (Dec 18, 2018)

I bought both and I love them. I figured I'd get them some day, so better now and 63% off then full price!


----------



## Shonx (Dec 18, 2018)

Got the Inspire bundle as the only other orchestral library I own was the one I got with the original Kontakt library (VSL). May not be up to the standards of specialised libraries but sounds good to my ears and suits my current needs perfectly.


----------



## PSKLN (Dec 18, 2018)

I spent quite some time reading through all the OT-NI-deal related posts last days. 

I just want to thank you guys. Seriously, very helpful comments here, this is a great community.

...well, you (and Daniel James' youtube videos) also helped me to spend a bit more than initially planned, thanks for that, too, folks :D

Anyways, happy to have some great new tools - the Arks - for some epic overthetop craziness, yay. ...and even for real music, yay.
They will be a nice addition to my beloved Spitfire Symphonics, which are great, but lack this final bit of bite and aggression. Cheers.


----------



## whiskers (Dec 18, 2018)

I think, in the end, we can all breathe a sigh of relief that we will no longer be posting and answer questions about 'Which OT Library should I get?"


----------



## Fleer (Dec 18, 2018)

Now for “which CineSamples library should I get”?


----------



## whiskers (Dec 18, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Now for “which CineSamples library should I get”?


None 'cuz I'm broke


----------



## Fleer (Dec 18, 2018)

...
(Fondling my Sonokinetic Ostinato collection)


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 18, 2018)

Fleer said:


> Now for “which CineSamples library should I get”?


30% off? Cinesamples isn't even trying.


----------



## Fleer (Dec 18, 2018)

Back to Sonokinetic then


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 18, 2018)

Or 8Dio.


----------



## musiccorner (Dec 19, 2018)

Bought the Arks (1 & 2) after a lot of videos, demos and lots of reads on this forum. Thank you very much everyone!

The only thing I'm hating is this Continuata´s Connect. I have forgotten how painful and stressing is downloading products from this app since lately i have used Native Access, 8Dio´s downloader and direct links so much more (and its always been a breeze, even with huge downloads). 

Now i put a reminder on my screen: "ASK IMMEDIATELY FOR DIRECT LINKS WHEN THE DOWNLOAD SOFTWARE IS CONNECT".

And yes...i´ve tried everything (even contacting support! They were good and patient, but their product isn't quite there.)


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 19, 2018)

The only way I can make Connect work is to set it to Download Only. It crashes when it tries to install. And since it seems to want to install as it downloads, it is a mess.


----------



## musiccorner (Dec 19, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> The only way I can make Connect work is to set it to Download Only. It crashes when it tries to install. And since it seems to want to install as it downloads, it is a mess.



Similar situation here!


----------



## Shonx (Dec 19, 2018)

dzilizzi said:


> The only way I can make Connect work is to set it to Download Only. It crashes when it tries to install. And since it seems to want to install as it downloads, it is a mess.



I had a problem with download and install so retried with just download. It completed the download (100%) but didn't allow install so checked the file location and had all the zip files so just unzipped and installed them from there with no issues, works fine now. Is a bit of a pain but not that difficult, would be nice to have a direct download option too though.


----------



## jjmmuir (Dec 19, 2018)

If you're feeling pleased you resisted the Ark sales...don't check your native instruments cart...the items may be still there at the same discounted price -I took it as a sign. Ark 2...bought.


----------



## dzilizzi (Dec 19, 2018)

jjmmuir said:


> If you're feeling pleased you resisted the Ark sales...don't check your native instruments cart...the items may be still there at the same discounted price -I took it as a sign. Ark 2...bought.


It's funny. NI shows 2 items in my cart, but when I click on it, it is empty. It's okay. I really didn't need the Sphere.


----------



## musiccorner (Dec 20, 2018)

Shonx said:


> I had a problem with download and install so retried with just download. It completed the download (100%) but didn't allow install so checked the file location and had all the zip files so just unzipped and installed them from there with no issues, works fine now. Is a bit of a pain but not that difficult, would be nice to have a direct download option too though.



You can always ask for direct download links. OT just gave me. Worked 100 times better.


----------



## MHP (Dec 20, 2018)

musiccorner said:


> Bought the Arks (1 & 2) after a lot of videos, demos and lots of reads on this forum. Thank you very much everyone!
> 
> The only thing I'm hating is this Continuata´s Connect. I have forgotten how painful and stressing is downloading products from this app since lately i have used Native Access, 8Dio´s downloader and direct links so much more (and its always been a breeze, even with huge downloads).
> 
> ...



Also bought the Ark 1+2 bundle and to my surprise everything went without problems with Continuata's Connect in contrast to others experience.
I did request the manual links but never received them so I took the risk with Connect.
Fortunately I chose Download Only in the settings. After the download I changed the settings to Download & Install, pressed the Download button again and the installation went fine, even on an external SSD (which is not recommended by OT).
I used Connect v3.2.4 under Mac OS High Sierra.


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 13, 2019)

Oof, I thought there was yet another OT sale after seeing this thread in latest posts :o

So glad there isn't.


----------



## dozicusmaximus (Dec 13, 2019)

You've finally bumped a thread less than a year old... barely.


----------



## micrologus (Dec 13, 2019)

Bluemount Score said:


> Oof, I thought there was yet another OT sale after seeing this thread in latest posts :o
> 
> So glad there isn't.


----------



## Raphioli (Dec 13, 2019)

Bluemount Score said:


> Oof, I thought there was yet another OT sale after seeing this thread in latest posts :o
> 
> So glad there isn't.



Seriously, Junkie XL Brass is gonna drain my funds. Don't do this. (but I have a feeling there might be one...)


----------



## musiccorner (Dec 13, 2019)

Which Orchestral Tools library should I get in case of a sale with 63% off on 2020?


----------



## jononotbono (Dec 13, 2019)

The title of this thread needs to be changed. I almost had a heart attack thinking about the amount of debt I was gonna be in if there was a 63% off sale plus JXL Brass coming out.


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 13, 2019)

Someone should kill this thread so it can't be bumped again. Imagine the feeling of pure excitement followed by deep, dark dispair.


----------



## Bluemount Score (Dec 13, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> Someone should kill this thread so it can't be bumped again. Imagine the feeling of pure excitement followed by deep, dark dispair.


Cinematic Studio Woodwinds


----------



## Manaberry (Dec 13, 2019)

Jeez, back from the dead, but about to get kill right away again.
Farewell good OT Sales post.


----------



## markleake (Dec 13, 2019)

I just got very excited  then very depressed .

Also, to the thread bumper. VSL *do* still have some good material. Their synchronized stuff, especially the woods, are worth a look. I recently got their synchronized woodwinds, and they are great.


----------



## Chungus (Dec 13, 2019)

Goddammit. I almost gasped when I saw this thread pop up. Though I tempered my hopes when I saw the thread had 20-some pages, I still let out a disappointed sigh in the end.


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Dec 13, 2019)

dozicusmaximus said:


> You've finally bumped a thread less than a year old... barely.


he must be getting worse at necromancy


----------



## schrodinger1612 (Dec 13, 2019)

Let’s all crawl under the covers and sob


----------



## Mike Fox (Dec 13, 2019)

@OrchestralTools

Please feel bad for us, so that you can make all our holiday dreams come true.


----------



## mralmostpopular (Dec 13, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> @OrchestralTools
> 
> Please feel bad for us, so that you can make all our holiday dreams come true.



I’d take just a few days extension of intro price on Junkie XL so we can have it in the wild first.


----------



## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 13, 2019)

Iswhatitis said:


> What are you talking about? VSL was the shiznits more than a decade plus ago, those days are over. Top pros switched over to Cinesamples, Cinematic Studio, Spitfire and Berlin libraries. VSL is very dated and is no where near as good as these newer libraries. Though VSL has lowered its pricing slowly but surely and will be forced to continue to do so, their newer synchron series is very much hit or miss and does not compete with newer fare. If you are new to the scene I would avoid VSL. Regardless of how expensive VSL is or was, just look for greener pastures.



Not only have you necroed a one year old thread, you also have no clue what you're talking about.


----------

