# The best expression pedal is...



## Astronaut FX (Dec 31, 2014)

…a volume pedal!

You'll have to forgive my enthusiasm if I'm late the party here, but I've been playing guitar for 33 years and just learned this trick this week. I'm assuming it may be new to some of you as well so I'm sharing it.

While reviewing the online support material for my Xmas gift (Strymon Mobius pedal), I learned this trick from the mad scientists at Strymon.

I took an Ernie Ball VP Jr Volume pedal and a TRS breakout cable and turned it into a fully functioning expression cable. I tested it out with a couple of my guitar effects pedals and with my Arturia KeyLab Midi controller, and all worked as you would expect.

Why do this?

Well, most expression pedals I've encountered are cheap, mostly plastic, don't have a good feel to them (especially for playing keys seated, and are typically over priced. What I put together was just a tad over $70 USD shipped and all, and functions better than any expression pedal I've ever tried. 

Links below if you want to give it a try.



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002GZ052/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000068O1N/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You would want a longer cable if using with a MIDI controller.

For more info…

http://www.strymon.net/2011/10/10/strymon-tech-corner-3-volume-pedal-as-an-expression-pedal/

Again, sorry if I'm the last to this party, but thought surely someone else could benefit from this. The Ernie Ball volume pedals are all metal, built like tanks, have a comfortable travel, and even with a cable, are cheaper than a lot of lower quality expression pedals.


----------



## Dryden.Chambers (Dec 31, 2014)

: )
I learned this from a mad scientist at Radial : )


----------



## Astronaut FX (Dec 31, 2014)

I'm embarrassed that something so elegantly simple had eluded me for so long! Oh well, lesson learned late is better than never learned at all.


----------



## Ozymandias (Dec 31, 2014)

Nice! 

How does the non-linear taper affect the "feel" of the pedal? Do you get more control (so to speak) at the low-end?


----------



## Astronaut FX (Dec 31, 2014)

I think it's going to depend somewhat on what volume pedal you use. In the case of the Ernie Ball, it has a taper switch inside. The switch gives a slight boost in the front of the sweep, which creates a more gradual swell.

I had been using a Moog expression pedal previously. I've swapped it out and with the short time I've been using it, I'm not finding using the volume pedal works much differently in terms of the taper. With the switch in the "up" position, I do find a more gradual control.


----------



## JonFairhurst (Jan 1, 2015)

Some caution... The volume to expression "hack" (and I don't mean that negatively - I like good, effective hacks!) will work with some controllers and not with others. There are a few variables here:

1) Some expression pedals (FC7) use a 50K audio taper pot. Others (Roland EV-5) use a 10K linear taper pot. 

The Ernie Ball is 250K. Put a 63K resistor in parallel and you get 50K ohms, but that affects the taper.

2) Some pedals use the tip and others the ring for the center tap of the pot.

This is no problem for the "hack". You can wire it either way.

3) Keyboards vary. Some provide calibration and various curves. Others (like my Kurzweil PC88) are very picky and require a good match.

Here's where the "hack" will succeed or fail. A newer controller is more likely to succeed than an older one.

It looks like the Ernie Ball sells for $67 and up, plus parts for the TRS cable. The Roland EV-5 costs about the same, but it's plastic and not nearly as nice.

I think the best solution is the Yamaha FC7. It's metal, well-built, doesn't drift, and is cheap. You can get one for less than $40. If the 50K audio pot doesn't work for you, replace it with this pot: 

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alp ... WxRQ%3d%3d

You'll need a soldering iron and a drill (the tab on this pot doesn't line up with the original), but the conversion works great - even with my picky PC88. 

So, for me, this is the best foot controller as of Jan 1, 2015. It's inexpensive. performs great, and can be converted to work with virtually any expression pedal host.


----------



## shomynik (Jan 30, 2017)

Astronaut FX said:


> I think it's going to depend somewhat on what volume pedal you use. In the case of the Ernie Ball, it has a taper switch inside. The switch gives a slight boost in the front of the sweep, which creates a more gradual swell.
> 
> I had been using a Moog expression pedal previously. I've swapped it out and with the short time I've been using it, I'm not finding using the volume pedal works much differently in terms of the taper. With the switch in the "up" position, I do find a more gradual control.



Great info about Ernie Ball pedal hack! 

Did you try maybe replacing the original pot with some linear pot of a smaller value? 

I am waiting for my Ernie Ball 6166 to arrive, and as I use the expression all the time with orchestral samples, I am a little afraid of the audio/log taper. Originally, when I was biding for it on ebay, I planned to replace the pot with 10k lin, but now I see that it's not easy at all due the some "custom" pots in EB Pedals about which they say that they are not replaceable with other manufacturer's pots.


----------



## heisenberg (Jan 30, 2017)

Astronaut FX said:


> I took an Ernie Ball VP Jr Volume pedal and a TRS breakout cable and turned it into a fully functioning expression cable. I tested it out with a couple of my guitar effects pedals and with my Arturia KeyLab Midi controller, and all worked as you would expect.
> 
> Why do this? Well, most expression pedals I've encountered are cheap, mostly plastic, don't have a good feel to them (especially for playing keys seated. You would want a longer cable if using with a MIDI controller.
> 
> For more info… http://www.strymon.net/2011/10/10/strymon-tech-corner-3-volume-pedal-as-an-expression-pedal/



I am late to this party. Great info. I have the Yamaha FC7, as mentioned a couple of posts up, which I find difficult to control at a keyboard in a seated position. Wondering if you had tried the FC7 and found the one you mentioned significantly better.


----------



## shomynik (Jan 30, 2017)

heisenberg said:


> I am late to this party. Great info. I have the Yamaha FC7, as mentioned a couple of posts up, which I find difficult to control at a keyboard in a seated position. Wondering if you had tried the FC7 and found the one you mentioned significantly better.



I haven't tried the Yamaha pedal, I have been using an M-audio super cheap one for years now. It's very light and you don't feel it under your foot at all, but I got used to it, I guess, and continued using it despite thinking about replacing it from time to time. Now, the pot broke down and it's a perfect excuse for buying a new pedal  The second option for me would be Yamaha, but I didn't catch that problem you mentioned, good to know. When i think about it, it goes very high, angle probably makes a strain for the foot.


----------



## heisenberg (Jan 30, 2017)

shomynik said:


> I The second option for me would be Yamaha, but I didn't catch that problem you mentioned, good to know. When i think about it, it goes very high, angle probably makes a strain for the foot.



Yes, your observation is correct. Quite high and the angle does strain the foot along with poor motion control on the swing of the pedal.


----------



## ZeroZero (Jan 30, 2017)

The Roland EV5 is considered a standard. I have one, it's build is OK, not amazing, but OK.


----------



## shomynik (Jan 30, 2017)

heisenberg said:


> Yes, your observation is correct. Quite high and the angle does strain the foot along with poor motion control on the swing of the pedal.



Cool, then i will report here my experience with Ernie Ball. I know it's one of the greatest volume pedals out there, but it's a question how it's pot will perform as expression with my Kurzweil and Cubase.


----------



## kurtvanzo (Jan 31, 2017)

JonFairhurst said:


> Some caution... The volume to expression "hack" (and I don't mean that negatively - I like good, effective hacks!) will work with some controllers and not with others. There are a few variables here:
> 
> 1) Some expression pedals (FC7) use a 50K audio taper pot. Others (Roland EV-5) use a 10K linear taper pot.
> 
> ...



Just to let everyone know, the FC7 and most other pedals now work without any soldiering or special cables, IF you purchase this adapter that turns any pedal to usb midi. It has a chip that will identify any pedal and polarity, and adjust automatically The app that comes with it can adjust CC number, midi channel, and expession curve, works really well on mac or pc. Well worth the price of a single or quad unit. I currently have 4 FC7's hooked up to a quad unit, it all works great, often adjusting expression, volume, vibrato, on multiple instruments in realtime. Leaves my hands free for playing keys. Highly recommended and the owner is good with updates and customer service. Even unbalanced pedals work.
http://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php


----------



## jonathanprice (Jan 31, 2017)

kurtvanzo said:


> http://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php



I just bought one of these to connect my F3CA for half-pedaling (since my keyboard doesn't support continuous pedaling). It works just as well as my MIDI Solutions Pedal Controller that I use with my EV-7 pedal.


----------



## shomynik (Feb 1, 2017)

heisenberg said:


> I am late to this party. Great info. I have the Yamaha FC7, as mentioned a couple of posts up, which I find difficult to control at a keyboard in a seated position. Wondering if you had tried the FC7 and found the one you mentioned significantly better.



So I got my Ernie Ball 6166 volume pedal, it a wonderful build, fantastic feel bellow the foot, and great amount of pressure needed, enough to really feel what are you doing down there... BUT, I have to report that it's poti doesn't work linear. The closest to linear curve I managed to get looks like this (i tried to move my foot evenly):




And that it with EB switch on more even position AND with Cped1 "Compress" (not default linear) Curv on my PC3X keyboard/controller.

Here you can see the curves with my cheap m-audio pedal . As you can see the curve is totally linear.





So I am ordering the 10k lin pot (piher) for replacement, i will report here the result.

EDIT: I made a mistake but also a correction of the post.


----------



## kurtvanzo (Feb 1, 2017)

shomynik said:


> So I got my Ernie Ball 6166 volume pedal, it a wonderful build, fantastic feel bellow the foot, and great amount of pressure needed, enough to really feel what are you doing down there... BUT, I have to report that it's poti doesn't work linear. The closest to linear curve I managed to get looks like this (i tried to move my foot evenly):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is why the app that comes with the usb pedal converter is so important. It can be set for linear or curved pedal, then the curve adjusted with handles on upper and lower parts of the curve as well as min and max settings. Selecting the pedal number and type at the top (if the auto select doesn't choose it for you) then for each there is a curve, midi channel, and CC#. The app is small (takes almost no CPU) and easy to operate. So valuable.


----------



## shomynik (Feb 1, 2017)

kurtvanzo said:


> This is why the app that comes with the usb pedal converter is so important. It can be set for linear or curved pedal, then the curve adjusted with handles on upper and lower parts of the curve as well as min and max settings. Selecting the pedal number and type at the top (if the auto select doesn't choose it for you) then for each there is a curve, midi channel, and CC#. The app is small (takes almost no CPU) and easy to operate. So valuable.


That looks really great, and it would be definitely my next option if pot replacement doesn't work. It's just, beside the obvious additional cost, I am not really sure how it would work with 250k logarithmic (audio taper) pot in EB volume pedal. I mean, it's easier to make log from lin (curve from line, you can do it with additional resistors) but it's a problem other way around, it's questionable if it's even possible to make it a straight line, and i want it perfectly straight. Maybe you have such an experience?


----------



## kurtvanzo (Feb 1, 2017)

shomynik said:


> That looks really great, and it would be definitely my next option if pot replacement doesn't work. It's just, beside the obvious additional cost, I am not really sure how it would work with 250k logarithmic (audio taper) pot in EB volume pedal. I mean, it's easier to make log from lin (curve from line, you can do it with additional resistors) but it's a problem other way around, it's questionable if it's even possible to make it a straight line, and i want it perfectly straight. Maybe you have such an experience?



Not personally. But I would contact Rob over at Audio Front to see if he has before you buy anything else. He was a great help when I bought my first one in 2014, and I'm sure he's come across every combination of pedal by now (he even released a software update back then to accommodate a Line 6 single polarity pedal I had). 
[email protected]
Just noticed the software has been updated twice since my screenshot (mine is 2.1 and there has been a 2.3 and 2.5 version since), so I'll have to update firmware/software to see how the new version runs.


----------



## shomynik (Feb 1, 2017)

kurtvanzo said:


> Not personally. But I would contact Rob over at Audio Front to see if he has before you buy anything else. He was a great help when I bought my first one in 2014, and I'm sure he's come across every combination of pedal by now (he even released a software update back then to accommodate a Line 6 single polarity pedal I had).
> [email protected]
> Just noticed the software has been updated twice since my screenshot (mine is 2.1 and there has been a 2.3 and 2.5 version since), so I'll have to update firmware/software to see how the new version runs.



Cool! Thanks! I Already ordered the potentiometer, 6eur on banzai  but if that fails i will contact audiofront for sure.


----------



## kurtvanzo (Feb 1, 2017)

Just updated to 2.5 (which works fine on my Mac OS 10.9.5) and it has some new features, better auto detecting and using sustain or other pedals to do some pretty neat switching. And the app can now be resized to any size you want (it was kind of small for me in the past) Kudos to Rob, he keeps improving his product.





Here is a video where Rob explains the new Global channel features...


----------



## shomynik (Feb 9, 2017)

So, finally my Piher potentiometer (model T21 Mono 10k Lin) arrived, and after some fiddling I successfully installed it in the EB pedal. It works beautifully!  ...as you can expect from the 10k lin pot in place where it SHOULD be 10k lin pot hehe  But important thing is that travel distance fitted perfectly, so 0 is on the bottom of the pedal and 127 on the top.

I am so happy with it, now I could not imagine better expression pedal. I mean, EB are the best volume pedals (or among the best), no doubt about it, so no wonder there either.

For those that would like to know what it took... wasn't too much trouble at all, needed some drilling, just to make the hole for the pot 1-2mm bigger so it could go through (maybe you could find better match and go without drilling), and cutting piher handle coz it's very long. And ofc some fiddling with the pedal mechanism itself, just to make it function as it was. The pot handle on Piher is 6mm wide as it is on the original pot, but i wouldn't be surprised if anybody makes it work with narrower.

There you go! Cheers all!


----------

