# Stuck on learning Sound Design: Wrong mindset / approach?



## Crimzan (Oct 28, 2021)

Hello everyone!

I hope this is the right spot to ask for a bit of advice.
I need help getting into Synths / Sound Design and finding a way to create the Sounds I am after.

My area of expertise is Orchestral music. If anything, for more cinematic stuff, I end up using some basic preset or a Kontakt-Library with Synth sounds. The problem is, I would like to go away from the Cinematic sounding Synths, and do something different to add to my music, and make my own Synth sounds from scratch that approach a different style. A softer, less aggressive one.

I would really like to know how to create similar sounds as in Blake Neely's The Mentalist soundtrack. Here are a few examples of Sounds I really like:




> 00:00 - The Plucky bell-like sound right in the beginning






> 00:00 - The repeating Piano-type sound
> 00:00 - The Synth sound in the background






> 00:30 - The little repeating section
> 01:14 - The lower plucky sounding synth
> 01:21 - Another cool Plucky Bell-like sound
> 02:50 - The subtle "Alarm"



... and more. Now, I might have the wrong impression thinking that this is "a specific style", but I can't help but finding countless Dance / Dubstep Related Preset Packs and tutorials, so I am looking for any kind of Presets that are less cinematic or EDM-like, and more subtle, like this.

I use the Vital Softsynth, and there are a lot of Tutorials out there (even watched tutorials for other synths) so that I could dissect the sounds they are making. None that I have found, however, actually go into the direction of sounds that I would like to create, probably mostly because I have no idea how the Sounds are actually called. So when I dissect many of the tutorials that show me how to make a "Skrillex Dubstep Wobble" Preset and even though it makes sense, I don't really seem to ever use these techniques learned in these presets / tutorials, and so I end up forgetting them, because it's just not the sound that I am after.

My current impression is, that just learning all the tools and features of my Softsynth before making the sounds I want doesn't work for me. I know the very basics, but actually making progress always depends on what I am after, and when I learn a lot about, I dunno, Bitcrushing, the moment it might actually be relevant for my music I might have already forgotten that it exists because I don't need it much. When I sit in front of my Init Preset in my synth and just "try" to go towards the sound I want to create, I almost always end up with the same filtered Sawtooth with a different envelope. From all the tutorials I watched, it feels like I learned nothing. So right now I am thinking of Tutorials / Preset Packs that are in the style of the music I linked above -- so that I can dissect them and learn how they're done, because *these *would be the type of sounds I actually would like to use and create. Since I don't know the Genre or what to Google Search for, I am pretty much stuck...


Can anyone relate to my situation? Does someone know of a good way / or a good preset pack, genre name or Youtube Channel / Tutorial that I could look into to learn more about the style mentioned? Or are they actually super rare and I might be better off reading all the docs and spending a lot of time just trying? 
This is by no means my first try getting into synths, but I keep losing focus by working on Sounds that I actually don't even need or want. So far, it is making learning Synths a very unappealing and unrewarding journey for me, and I have no idea how to progress from here. So I really hope someone has some Advice 

Thanks for reading, I really look forward to any response! 

- Crim


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## StefanoM (Oct 28, 2021)

Maybe you need of ELEMENTS and to see my Tutorials:

Just an example: 


This is the Playlist with 16 Tutorial :


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## davidson (Oct 28, 2021)

Syntorial is brilliant for learning synthesis in a really short amount of time. You'll be able to create those sounds from scratch within a couple of hours. They always run a 50% or so sale on black friday so if you can hold off for a while, you'll save some money. 









Syntorial: The Ultimate Synthesizer Tutorial | Syntorial


Syntorial is more than just another synth tutorial. It's video game-like training software, that will teach you how to program synth patches by ear.




www.syntorial.com


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## shponglefan (Oct 28, 2021)

Crimzan said:


> Since I don't know the Genre or what to Google Search for, I am pretty much stuck...


Based on some of the examples (e.g. E-piano or bell-like sounds) I would search for tutorials on FM (frequency modulation) synthesis.

Different types of synthesis are useful for creating different types of sounds. Electric piano and bell-like sounds especially are in the domain of FM synthesis.

You mention you're using Vital softsynth. I haven't used it so I don't know if it can do proper FM synthesis. If not, you may need to look at a different synthesizer to play around with. Not all synthesizers are adept at creating all sounds. This is why people usually end up with a few different options.

The below video has a super-basic primer on the concepts used in FM synthesis. Beyond that there are numerous tutorials on YouTube for making the types of sounds you are after. I would Google things like "FM bell sounds" or "FM E-piano sounds" and go from there.


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## Pier (Oct 28, 2021)

@Crimzan I think you simply need to spend more time creating your own patches.

Learning synthesis is really difficult because 99% of the content out there is a) this is a list of things in a synth or b) recipes on how to do a particular sound. Educationally, this just sucks, and won't get you closer to developing your own methodology.

Syntorial should help a lot and will give you plenty of ideas of things you can do, but making your own sounds is really like finding your own voice when writing. There is no substitute for putting in the time to train your brain and discovering the process to get where you want to get.

Have you checked The Unfinished's website? He has tons of amazing presets and maybe there's something there that is closer to what you're looking for.






The Unfinished | Store







www.theunfinished.co.uk


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## Smikes77 (Oct 28, 2021)

I recommend Syntorial. I doubt you`ll be thinking presets after that.


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## Crimzan (Oct 28, 2021)

Hello everyone, thanks a lot for your responses!

Definitely going to check out Syntorial. On the surface it looks a lot like "learn each and every little thing" about a Synth not so sure yet about this approach, but it seems to have a really cool twist with the interactivity and the ratings are fantastic. Gonna give it a try, thanks a lot for the recommendation!

@shponglefan
I actually watched that video a while back, haha! Feels good to refresh it. I got the fundamentals, from the video, but I didn't really know how to continue from there, haha. Will definitely look up more tutorials for FM Synthesis, then. Thank you very much!

@Pier
Yeah, I agree -- If there is a very specific sound that I am after, and there is a tutorial about that, this is great. But apparently most tutorial makers on youtube aren't into my kind of music, haha!
Will go ahead and make more patches. Looks like Syntorial is a great tool for that as well.
Never heard of The Unfinished -- the sounds are really nice, but sadly they don't seem to offer presets for Vital :o

@StefanoM
Thank you, Iw ill check out the Playlist!
Got Elements on my wishlist haha, I really like your products!

Thanks once again for the response everyone!


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## Mr Crumbly (Oct 28, 2021)

If you are interested in learning how to use Vital and haven't already done so, I can heartily recommend you check out the Vital Forum https://forum.vital.audio/.
It has a special section where users have posted tutorials - I can particularly recommend those by Platipo, who did at least one video on Producing FM-type sounds. I would also suggest you download the many patches uploaded to the forum by generous users and stored in another special section. Another form of learning is to find a patch which creates a sound similar to that which you're looking for and start tweaking it, adding in some of the built-in effects etc., until you get closer to what you're looking for.
If all else fails, you could always upload the Mentalist tracks to the Vital forum and ask users there for any pointers to recreate the sounds - they're a friendly and knowledgeable bunch and I'm sure you would get some useful responses.


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## Pier (Oct 28, 2021)

Crimzan said:


> Never heard of The Unfinished -- the sounds are really nice, but sadly they don't seem to offer presets for Vital :o


Yeah Vital sound designers are more into EDM stuff.

You'll find plenty of cinematic stuff for Zebra though.


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## gsilbers (Oct 28, 2021)

Crimzan said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I hope this is the right spot to ask for a bit of advice.
> I need help getting into Synths / Sound Design and finding a way to create the Sounds I am after.
> ...




Do you have omnisphere? becuase all that sounds like omnisphere. you might be after omnisphere and some cinematic soundsets.

edit: what pier said. the unfinished stuff is good. get one or two of his collosus and youll be cover for this types of sounds.
same for the zebra2.
hearing other of the tracks of mentalist its my good guess its something with made w omni and zebra2 and good cinematic presets.

edit2: i just saw some of his interviews and he is defintly into u-he synths. And he didnt seem too much into sound design and views it more as tools. so my guess its omnipshere+zebra2+unfinished presets and used in a cool way to enhance his music. which since he makes like 6 tv shows at a time, i d be doing the same 

And not to be the odd fellow here, but im trying to look past your question and trying to figure out what you need. since you do orchestral music and looking to make it sound like blake. and looking at blakes background, my assumption is that you dont really need to get too into sound design and trying to make your own presets and all that stuff.
You need to get those synths, get some good patches that you like. save them and make your own preset list based of existing soundsets. egt patches that gravitate to your style.
you can tweak each one to create more of the similar style. or you can modify them
by changin the sound source a bit or the arpegio patterns etc. but you dont need a class in sound design or how to use synth besides some of the basics. its always good to leanr of course, but in your case, if you are orchestral composer trying to get some cool sounds, this is imo the best and most common usage among tv and film composers. just compose. let sound designers do their sound design  Spend time learning how blake uses the sounds in combination with orchestral sounds. How he uses harmony and melody along these presets sounds etc.
Im sure blake bought a ton of presets, loaded them in omni/zebra and chose the ones thatmatch the style of that series. maybe based on reference tracks from directors etc. From there he selects the one he likes, changes it a bit , writes stuff and moves on to the next cue.


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## Tusker (Oct 28, 2021)

The sounds you mention are classes (synth plucks, synth pianos, sirens, etc) which can be studied or purchased. I am not familiar with Vital so I don’t know the developer community there but for the Zebra/Omnisphere guys these sounds are bread and butter. Since your time is valuable, I’d caution you that the same sound can be made through multiple synthesis techniques… and synthesis is vast. The sounds you mention are not particularly unique to a technique and if you wanted to save time, I’d buy a few presets and then tweak them to learn only the synthesis you need. For example the class of plucks you cited could be made with FM, physical modeling, virtual analog, or old fashioned sampling+filtering. As you tweak you will learn fundamentals as well. If you insist on doing the deep dive, nothing is more thorough than syntorial.


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## Snoobydoobydoo (Nov 3, 2021)

Thinking about sounds, doh! I need motivation.

When you try to imagine a certain sound, which
you want to create afterwards, a lot is happening
in your brain. Your creative brain(side) is
connecting emotions, feelings and other useless (!)
stuff with that impression of that certain sound
and overlapping the logical approach many times.
Speaking brain gets laaazy when in moood...

Especially in an environment where there is lots and
lots of distraction around, your verbal description
is not happening at all, because you try to concentrate
on the impression of the sound, not so much on its
attributes. What you want to do is verbalizing
the impressions.

Stop getting lost in the process of creation,
because of side-influences, even if they are
so relaxing at that moment.
Just being in that meditative flow, thinking about nothing
and just experiencing the sound/wonderful GUI's or
tactile feedback from the cat on your lap is tempting....
But, just:
Blink! Just take a minute off anytime and always consider to
verbally (record/write/speak to your invisible friend who has a
good memory) harden that idea.
Don't write a book (unless you are a real machine).
Just ask yourself the basic ideas and attributes of the sound
first. And answer them before you continue, without the right answer,
your brain goes to DAW neverland and enjoys itself elsewhere...
that damn childish blob.

...Is that sound snappy (-> attacky) or the opposite?
Are the harmonics evenly distributed or not? So, FM?
Which frequencies does it occupy? Which waveform to start with,
and what to modulate...

The more detailed your answers are, the easier will it be.
Sounds like a lot of work, right? No:

That final gate to heavenly Applejelly will open when you have
reached the point of not having to write anymore about it,
because you know all answers from the beginning.
Just because of the reason that you have answered many possible
questions a lot of times before (CONSCIOUSLY), and memorized them.

When you imagine a sound then (and knowing which tools to grab)
you will be able to create it pretty fast and on point.
Because your subconscious answers, that already nest deep inside
your navel or something, have become conscious (audible, and that's
what we want) by digging them out and putting them on paper or another
medium that is capable of re-visiting at that moment when the gray
matter starts to hunt its own tail.


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## Crimzan (Nov 11, 2021)

Hey everyone, sorry for the silence on my part!

I was spending a lot of time thinking about all your answers and got started with some tutorials, guides and started learning more about the Vital Synth that I'm using, as well as started to consider other synths based on your recommendations.

Zebra and Omnisphere are looking absolutely gorgeous and I think I will invest in those, or another u-he Synth. Vital is nice but I also agree having a nice synth with nice presets that just work well for the music I would like to create in case of tighter deadlines!

I also got my hands on Syntorial. Wow. I learned a lot already and it is really fun to work with this tool. Man, this is promising!

I really appreciate everyone's answer, advice and recommendations!
I think I know how to get good with Synths now, haha 

Thanks again and take care everybody!
- Crim


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 11, 2021)

Funds permitting, I’d have to say one of the fastest and easiest ways of learning synth sound design basics is to get a good hardware synth that touches on the type of synthesis you’re interested in (samples, subtractive, FM, wavetable, granular, vector, etc).

At least get a good MIDI controller and, at first anyway, do extensive mapping of controls.

I can personally attest to having used software samples and synths for 20 years and then getting a couple hardware synths and learning more, better, and faster in the last 3 years than the previous decades combined.


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## Prof_lofi (Nov 13, 2021)

Lots of great suggestions here. Another approach that I use with my students in Sound Design (the first assignment actually) is do all the sound design for an abstract video using only 1 sheet of paper and Ableton’s Sampler. Not only is it remarkable what can be accomplished when your toolset is limited, but also how much you can learn when you go this route.


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