# Orchestral library for absolute newbies?



## 3DC

Little help here please.
My main goal is to eventually compose relatively simple music score for my 3D short animated films. Nothing Oscar™ worthy but I want it to be my original music. Right now I am learning music theory and piano but I would also like to experiment as soon as possible with "All in One" orchestral library suitable for us beginners. I am looking at Spitfire Audio BBC Symphony Orchestra. I like their upgrade path from basic to pro version but I am not sure if:

Is Discover good starting point for us beginners?
Is BBC Symphony Orchestra CORE and PRO actually "All in One" library?
Anything else like Discover to PRO path on the market I am not aware of?

Thanks in advance for help and suggestions.


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## mybadmemory

Discover is great to dip your toes so to speak. Combine it with the free LABS and you can get some fine results from it. You’ll probably want core or something else quite soon though.

Core is tremendous value and will keep you going for quite some time. I know of no other library in the same price range that includes as much content. There are other options that are also good of course, but for the price; it’s as complete as it gets.

Pro is probably worth it for some but not for others depending on what you want. More control over the same sounds then yes. More sounds, then probably no. Then adding another library might be a better option.

I personally love all-in-ones, have a bunch of different ones, and though they all sound different, include different things, and have their pros and cons, Core is by far the best value in the market right now imo.


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## THW

You might also consider a library with ensemble patches like abbey road or Albion one.


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## Trash Panda

If you're looking for a classical orchestral sound, you really can't beat BBCSO Core as a starter all-in-one solution. There are other options more suited to modern/hybrid sounds, but wouldn't recommend them unless that's the style you're aiming for.


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## Jeremy Spencer

For starters.....what are you computer and audio interface specs? This will be a determining factor.


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## NoamL

You could also consider the Symphobia libraries (both Symphobia 1+2 and also the "Lumina" one). They can be quite satisfying to jam along with pre-orchestrated patches and feel like you get a complete orchestration with just 1 or 2 tracks. Eventually if you keep pursuing music you will graduate beyond that but it's a very accessible starting point.


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## mybadmemory

I might add to my comment that two things are important to think about.

1. Sound. As other mentioned. BBCSO is great for classical but perhaps not the best choice for epic.

2. Workflow. Do you want an ensemble based library or a library with separate sections? Ensemble based ones might be easier for a beginner but are also more limited. Whereas section based ones require a little more but also offers more control. BBCSO is section based.


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## PaulieDC

I think for scoring and needing an all-in-one, Albion One is the no-brainer, because that's what the SpitFire gang intended it for, one-stop-shopping for scoring. Pretty much everyone here is cheering on BBCSO Core including myself, but that's going to give you an orchestra, which for writing true orchestral pieces is a superb starting point. But for scoring you're going to want a richer cinema sound and some additional instruments and noises. That's Albion One. Make BBCSO Core your second purchase down the road.


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## PaulieDC

Have a listen to what Homay composed for the demo:

Albion One Walkthrough


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## mybadmemory

That's a great starting rig, and definitely enough to get going! Not everyone here is a professional btw, there's a lot of hobbyists, including myself, on different levels so no need to feel intimidated! An all-in-one is a great way to start and learn, as you say, since you get "everything" to start out with. You can always expand and build from it later when the needs appear.

The references you drop there are already quite different in sound and style. People would usually recommend quite different libraries for Williams -style or Zimmer-style for example. Any library you buy will have a certain sound and work best for certain styles, so a true "all-in-one" in the sense that it will be the best at everything is not really around.

I guess it comes down to, do you want to write for a classic orchestra? Then BBCSO is great! Are you leaning more towards epic scoring? Then perhaps look into Nucleus, Jaeger, Albion One, or Metroplos Arc One. Are you into some softer sort of scoring like romantic / cinematic? Perhaps look into the Berlin Inspires. Or are you leaning more towards minimal / scandi? Then spitfire has some great choices there.

Perhaps if you specify a bit more what sound and style will be your primary one, we'll be able to help better.


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## Kony

NoamL said:


> You could also consider the Symphobia libraries (both Symphobia 1+2 and also the "Lumina" one). They can be quite satisfying to jam along with pre-orchestrated patches and feel like you get a complete orchestration with just 1 or 2 tracks. Eventually if you keep pursuing music you will graduate beyond that but it's a very accessible starting point.


@3DC based on where you are at right now, I'd say Noam's suggestion is great as it gives you options to explore all of the genres you've mentioned simply and quickly, especially with their really cool genre presets. Over time as you progress/develop, it would make sense to upgrade to more focused libraries. But if you're new to this, the Symphobias are a very good entry point.


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## Rachel

I started with Albion One, and I always recommend it for a start. The sound is really good and you have all what you need to begin. I still use it, especially for the percussion.


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## Kurosawa

@3DC I also suggest going for the Symphobia 1 and 2, maybe also 3! 

They are great, especially for starters! 









Symphobia 1 - ProjectSAM


Experience the fully updated 2.0 version of Symphobia. Get the classic and proven Symphobia sound in a brand-new interface offering a ton of new features.




projectsam.com












Symphobia 2 - ProjectSAM


Massive amounts of fresh and inspiring symphonic effects, all-new orchestral articulations and real legato ensembles. Now fully updated with a brand-new design.




projectsam.com


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## daan1412

BBCSO Core is a great choice if you're into traditional sound and serious about learning orchestration. And I don't mean it's difficult for beginners, but it simply allows you to dive deep because of its rich content. The library isn't suited for "epic" music at all (or at least what people commonly refer to as "epic"...), but offers a comprehensive range of instruments and articulations, which is its biggest strength IMO.

I would also consider Abbey Road One. All ensembles so it's easier and faster to work with at the cost of less control over instruments. It's one of the best sounding orchestral libraries on the market, but has some serious lacks in articulations at the moment. I recommend it if you're willing to buy the announced expansions down the road.

Perhaps it's a good idea to try Berlin Inspire 1+2. I don't have those, but really like the sound and I think the selection of instruments and articulations is pretty good. If I had to pick just one of those starter-type libraries, it would probably be this bundle.


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## from_theashes

My vote goes to Albion One too. Its such a great library for scoring cinematic music and is truely „all-in-one“ with epic strings, brass and woods (all with a good amount of articulations and more like in „Nucleus“ for example), thunderous percussion and useful sound design patches. And for a beginner it’s easier to write with an ensemble patch like in Albion.


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## cloudbuster

I'd second Albion One as a starting point for epic and hybrid tracks. Another less specialised orchestral library I haven't seen mentioned here would be the East West Hollywood Orchestra (or check out the EW Composer Cloud). Not exactly made for beginners but then we're talking orchestral stuff here and there's a bit of a learning curve, no matter what. Like BBCSO, EWHO basically covers everything you need and then some ... I still love that sound to bits.



Anyway, tons of options, good luck with your decision!


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## antanasb

Out of all the libraries that I have seen and heard, my vote also goes to -- "Albion One, then see what's missing for you with a close eye on BBC Core" -- if indeed you are just starting. Albion One is a very good and easy sketching ensemble library with really good sounds (and has legato!). It can sound really decent, I think, with some care. Paired with LABS, you can go very far.. And you don't need to think about dividing the parts to violins 1, violins 2, violas, celli, basses, trombones, flutes, oboes, clarinets, bassoons, etc.. You can avoid being overwhelmed with orchestration and concentrate on music due to the ensemble patches.. So the main catch being -- Albion One has ONLY ensembles lending to faster and easier use, while BBC has ONLY sections and soloists yielding significantly more control over your sound. (And don't forget that BBC Pro eats up almost 1 TB of SSD...)

Now I have both -- Albion One and BBC Core. They complement each other very nicely. Albion One has a little bit more "epic-hybrid" sounding orchestra, with loops, synths, good epic percussion. BBC is quite classical, more mellow and detailed sounding, with more "orchestral" percussion like snares, gran cassa, timpani and triangle.. When combined, you can get very good results, I believe. Here is a short video for Score Relief 2021 competition that I just did combining Albion One and BBC Core, with the heavy lifting done by Albion:


Now just seeing your latest post, I wish you luck with the library of your choice! Get the free BBC Discover, and then wait for a sale. That way I got my Core version for 220€.


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## Jeremy Spencer

3DC said:


> My entry level or beginner rig:
> 
> M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61 MIDI Controller
> M-Audio SP-1 Sustain pedal
> M-Audio BX8 D3 Speakers
> Bayerdynamic DT 770 PRO 250 Ohm Headphones
> Behringer UMC204HD Audio Interface
> Behringer TM1 Microphone
> FL Studio All Plugins Edition DAW + MuseScore
> 3D/Audio/Video Workstation ( Ryzen7, 32 GB RAM , 2TB SSD, 8GB GPU ).
> 
> Hopefully this is enough for orchestral library.
> I am probably never be on your level guys considering it takes some 10 years to get to pro level so it doesn't make sense for me to invest a lot of money for several complex libraries right now. That's why I am looking for some sort of "All in One" solution usable for serious learning and professional work at some point in time.
> That said I really love movie soundtracks from great ones like Williams, Zimmer, Poledouris, Goldsmith. I know its wishful thinking but any "All in One" library that would be suitable for cinematic or even epic scores would be perfect match I guess.
> I was under impression that BBC Symphony Orchestra is good match for this type of music but now I am not so sure.


That's a pretty good set up! I agree with the other recommendations of BBCSO Core and Nucleus. Personally, I'm not an Albion One because it's basically just ensemble patches (and I think they sound too "synthy" for my taste). Just watch a lot of walkthroughs on YouTube and see what perks your interest. If you're a student of some sort, you can also apply for the educational discounts wit many vendors....including Spitfire and EastWest. Yo could also try the EW Composer Cloud, it has everything you need for composing orchestral music.


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## Alex Fraser

For scoring? I'll be boring and add another voice for Albion ONE. I've scored a couple of short films with it - it's definably do-able. Not often mentioned is that you get a lot of the orchestral "effects" from Old School Albion included, like overblown flutes, string clusters, boomers etc.


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## antanasb

3DC said:


> Huh Core for 220€?! Thanks for great tip @antanasb. When are these usually on sale? I assume Black Friday and Christmas at the end of the year. Anything at the beginning of the year?


Yes, if you have the free Discover version.

If I remember correctly, I think there are also Easter and Summer sales? So sign up for the free Discover already now, because it takes 14 days to get it. Then you can upgrade at your own pace at the nearest or some other sale...


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## PaulieDC

3DC said:


> I just saw this video from Spitfire Audio about their library differences. In the end I think I will stick with my initial choice that is BBC Symphony Orchestra. Its got everything I need including solo instruments and its got a nice upgrade pricing path to PRO version.
> 
> I can see from your suggestions guys that there are better choices like Abbey Road One, Symphobia or EWHO but for me even BBC SO will take considerable time to learn not to mention produce something decent with it.
> 
> Thanks guys for eye opening and extremely helpful suggestions. I really appreciate it.



If what you hear is what you're after, then absolutely go for BBCSO, regardless of what we pontificate, lol! You can't lose with that Library.


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## PaulieDC

Rachel said:


> I started with Albion One, and I always recommend it for a start. The sound is really good and you have all what you need to begin. I still use it, especially for the percussion.


Exactly. When you take a straight orchestral library like BBCSO but then want to add in other textures, it's hard to beat Albion One's vast array of sounds and even the loops, especially for that price. Even better when Spitfire tosses it out there for half price.


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## milford59

I am going to chip in here with a suggestion - although as a caveat, I am relatively new to this game..... I have BBC Core, which I am very pleased with and I also have The Orchestra Complete 2....the great thing about TOC2 is it has multis that consist of up to 5 instruments with 3 arpeggiators that you can design yourself and 2 envelopes that you can design yourself (or simply use the ones already in the multi)

The icing on the cake is that you can record some stuff *and then export the MIDI to 5 separate tracks* in your DAW, so you could then use the samples in BBC Core, if you wanted to..... it’s the best of both worlds !!


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## PaulieDC

antanasb said:


> Yes, if you have the free Discover version.
> 
> If I remember correctly, I think there are also Easter and Summer sales? So sign up for the free Discover already now, because it takes 14 days to get it. Then you can upgrade at your own pace at the nearest or some other sale...


Right, I'm pretty sure they will run a Spring sale... grab Discover for now. They also might do their Wishlist sale in the spring, so whatever is on your wishlist gets a big discount. You'll have ample warning, don't worry. 

FWIW, May 2019 I got Albion One during the Spring sale for 50% off. $225USD for a library like that? Crazy! So if you aren't in a huge rush, go Discover and wait a couple months. Gives you time to learn the player and get familiar with the library so when BBCSO Core goes on sale, you're totally ready.


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## antanasb

PaulieDC said:


> Right, I'm pretty sure they will run a Spring sale... grab Discover for now. They also might do their Wishlist sale in the spring, so whatever is on your wishlist gets a big discount. You'll have ample warning, don't worry.
> 
> FWIW, May 2019 I got Albion One during the Spring sale for 50% off. $225USD for a library like that? Crazy! So if you aren't in a huge rush, go Discover and wait a couple months. Gives you time to learn the player and get familiar with the library so when BBCSO Core goes on sale, you're totally ready.



Agree 110%..

At such prices the libraries are a steal...

I am still amazed that I can make the BBC and Air orchestras play my stuff. Every. Single. Evening.. Boy, they would have been bored to tears due to the things I throw at them looong time agooooo...


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## bill5

Some of the suggestions are pretty expensive and the OP already said he wanted to keep costs down; Amadeus Orchestra is very inexpensive and is about as all-in-one as you're going to get generally. I have not used but it seems to get good reviews, well worth considering.

Also someone pls confirm if I'm off but it appears Spitfire Core has no solos OR ensembles? Doesn't sound like a good beginner library to me given that, even if it does sound great and you can get a great sale price.


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## antanasb

bill5 said:


> Some of the suggestions are pretty expensive and the OP already said he wanted to keep costs down; Amadeus Orchestra is very inexpensive and is about as all-in-one as you're going to get generally. I have not used but it seems to get good reviews, well worth considering.
> 
> Also someone pls confirm if I'm off but it appears Spitfire Core has no solos OR ensembles? Doesn't sound like a good beginner library to me given that, even if it does sound great and you can get a great sale price.



You get all of the soloists of the woodwinds and brass that there are in core. You do not get the extra low instruments like contra bassoon, bass flute, etc.

The strings leaders (soloists) is a Pro feature, though.

Everything else is in the Core version — all of the regular instruments and all of the articulations.

Yes, BBC does not have any ensemble patches.

I would REALLY not recommend the Amadeus Orchestra. Although it is cheap, it does not sound like it was recorded in a proper recording hall, which is very important, thus you also don’t have any choice on the microphone perspectives, as you do e.g. In Albion One with Close, Tree, Ambience and Outriggers. Professional version of BBC has a double digit of microphone perspectives, letting you tailor the sound the way you like to the perfection... Also, from what I understood after looking at the demos, you do get only scripted legato, which only simulates what real legato in BBC for example does, having real recordings of transitions between notes with options for portamento, bow change or slurred legatos in strings for every note, which is dependant on the velocity of a note and whether it was actually possible on the instrument..

I think either Albion One or the BBC Core is way better investment than the Amadeus Orchestra. Even if the Amadeus Orchestra is cheaper, (149$) it does not sound good, really. The first audio demo in their site actually sounds like only slightly better midi orchestra, honestly, and all of their official demos are with some weird clicks and pops... The sound of Amadeus Orchestra's demos is not even comparable to the official demos on either BBC or Albion One product pages in Spitfire Audio site... And on sale, BBC Core is only 30% more expensive.. As @PaulieDC mentioned earlier, Albion One could be had for similar price, though I bought it while 40% off for 269€ myself.

I would not waste money on Amadeus Orchestra and buy the more expensive, but the right, good sounding thing from the getgo... It is way more cheaper this way in the end, and you would have a really good sounding production-quality library, which would actually inspire you and with which you could actually write some production-quality music and have it published even in one way or another or aired on TV even..

Totally not worth it, in my opinion..

My 2 cents..


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## bill5

antanasb said:


> You get all of the soloists of the woodwinds and brass that there are in core.


Again, there are no solos in Core. Unless the guy who emailed me from Spitfire was lying.  And I don't see any mention on the site either.


antanasb said:


> Yes, BBC does not have any ensemble patches.


Which I think is huge for someone starting out...I suggest re-reading the OP:


> My main goal is to eventually compose relatively simple music score for my 3D short animated films. Nothing Oscar™ worthy but I want it to be my original music. Right now I am learning music theory and piano but I would also like to experiment as soon as possible with "All in One" orchestral library suitable for us beginners.


While it may be nice to have, he doesn't really need 300 articulations and a gazillion mic positions. He will want solos and ensembles though.




antanasb said:


> Even if the Amadeus Orchestra is cheaper, (149$) it does not sound good, really.


As you say, that's your opinion, which is fine...and I admit I can't say for sure as I don't have it and listening to demos IMO they sound better to me than you seem to think but that's is a dicey way to judge anyway. I will say this is the first openly negative review I've seen of it and IMO the OP would be making a huge mistake to dismiss it as an option as it fits his needs (which is what this is about) far - FAR - better. Does Spitfire Core sound better, even a lot better? Again I don't pretend to know. I do know it has extras that are nice to haves but that he doesn't really need nearly as much as the solos and ensembles it's missing and Amadeus offers, based on his stated requirements.


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## jbuhler

bill5 said:


> Again, there are no solos in Core. Unless the guy who emailed me from Spitfire was lying.  And I don't see any mention on the site either.


Brass and woodwinds have soloists in BBCSO core. Strings do not have soloists in core. But the brass and winds soloists are not called soloists on the product page. It’s just, e.g. Trumpet or Trumpets a3. Trumpet is solo trumpet. Trumpets a3 is section trumpets (3 of them).


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## bill5

That's very odd (and poor web design) if so. I'm going to ask them again to clarify, thanks.


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## Trash Panda

If you want both ensemble patches and soloists, there’s always Nucleus.


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## bill5

lol - do tell. That does at least have most major solo and ensemble squares checked I believe. How easy is the UI? That's another plus for Amadeus and a good selling point for beginners.


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## Trash Panda

Audio Imperia’s UI easy to use and if you want to dig deep, the advanced tab has a lot of flexibility.


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## jbuhler

bill5 said:


> That's very odd (and poor web design) if so. I'm going to ask them again to clarify, thanks.


Well, no. That's what "trumpet," "flute," "clarinet," etc. means: One trumpet, one flute, one clarinet, etc. Trumpets a3 = 3 Trumpets.

That scheme follows straight through to pro (if you compare the articulation lists of core and pro you will find them virtually identical). The main difference between core and pro is that pro has more microphones and mixes, whereas core only has one. Pro also has a few additional instruments like the solo strings.


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## mybadmemory

Just a quick note. Amadeus may include much but it’s sound don’t come close to the quality of the bbc.

Nucleus does sound good in its own right (different but good) but includes nowhere near as much as the bbc.

If you consider both pro sound and amount of content in combination, bbc is very hard to beat for the price.


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## Justin L. Franks

BBCSO Core is a phenomenal library, especially when you can get it during a 40% off sale for $220 with the extra discount for owning Discover. It really does have everything you need to get started.

But I would still recommend taking a closer look at Abbey Road One. The only real con is the lack of legatos, but those are coming soon in the $50 expansion packs. You can pick up the ones which interest you as they are released.

AR1 is ensemble-based for strings and woodwinds, with separate High and Low ensembles for both. Brass is mixed section- and ensemble-based. The low brass is an ensemble, and trumpets and horns are separate individual sections.

You still get a fair amount of control with the high and low ensembles for strings and woodwinds. Some other ensemble libraries just give one patch orchestrated across the entire range. And the separate trumpets and horns sections in the brass is a huge benefit in this regard.

And AR1 just sounds absolutely stellar out of the box. You'll have enough to learn in the beginning, and having to learn orchestration on top of all that from the start can be overwhelming.

As a new library, it isn't included in the 40% off sales. Instead, during these sales, it goes back to its intro pricing of $349. This year's Christmas sale will probably be the first time it will go for 40% off, or possibly during this year's Black Friday sale.


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## Kevinside

BBCSO or HWO...both great libraries to start with... But you should begin to work out, how this libraries work...


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## antanasb

Justin L. Franks said:


> BBCSO Core is a phenomenal library, especially when you can get it during a 40% off sale for $220 with the extra discount for owning Discover. It really does have everything you need to get started.
> 
> But I would still recommend taking a closer look at Abbey Road One. The only real con is the lack of legatos, but those are coming soon in the $50 expansion packs. You can pick up the ones which interest you as they are released.
> 
> AR1 is ensemble-based for strings and woodwinds, with separate High and Low ensembles for both. Brass is mixed section- and ensemble-based. The low brass is an ensemble, and trumpets and horns are separate individual sections.
> 
> You still get a fair amount of control with the high and low ensembles for strings and woodwinds. Some other ensemble libraries just give one patch orchestrated across the entire range. And the separate trumpets and horns sections in the brass is a huge benefit in this regard.
> 
> And AR1 just sounds absolutely stellar out of the box. You'll have enough to learn in the beginning, and having to learn orchestration on top of all that from the start can be overwhelming.
> 
> As a new library, it isn't included in the 40% off sales. Instead, during these sales, it goes back to its intro pricing of $349. This year's Christmas sale will probably be the first time it will go for 40% off, or possibly during this year's Black Friday sale.




It is indeed true, that it sounds wonderful. But there are more butts in my opinion:
1. It is more pricey even for what you get right now without any expansions, and you will have to wait I assume for until next BF at least to get the 40% off.
2. You still can’t get any legatos, and it is not clear when they are going to be available. Particularly high strings, as that is way more important than low strings at least for me. It may even be the last expansion..
3. In the end it will cost way more than 349 dollars or euros if you get all of the expansions. Some estimated that it will come close to 1000.. And, technically, it is going to be legatos mainly, which you already get in Albion One or BBC Core, or Nucleus (though personally, I do not really dig the sound of Nucleus..).
4. Even though BBC Core does not have any ensemble patches, I think that it is an invaluable tool in learning what orchestra can do with portamentos, bow change or slurred legatos, sul pont tremolo or flautando articulations for strings for example. That is really unique and stellar thing that Spitfire Audio offers with this library... And no other library at this price can compare with it in scholarly aspect — neither Abbey Road (which may be more suited for pros who have a lot of stuff at the moment), nor Albion One (which is a WONDERFUL deal when it is on sale)...

Again, my 2 cents.. 🙂


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## antanasb

bill5 said:


> As you say, that's your opinion, which is fine...and I admit I can't say for sure as I don't have it and listening to demos IMO they sound better to me than you seem to think but that's is a dicey way to judge anyway. I will say this is the first openly negative review I've seen of it and IMO the OP would be making a huge mistake to dismiss it as an option as it fits his needs (which is what this is about) far - FAR - better. Does Spitfire Core sound better, even a lot better? Again I don't pretend to know. I do know it has extras that are nice to haves but that he doesn't really need nearly as much as the solos and ensembles it's missing and Amadeus offers, based on his stated requirements.


Sorry, but no. Amadeus Orchestra is really not up to par with anything on the market at the moment...

I am attaching a mockup of 1 minute samples from official demos from Amadeus, BBC Core and Albion One (not in that particular order on purpose in the recording, and they can be found on the official pages of the products).

Now, please, tell me, that they indeed all sound equally good...

EDIT:

Heck, even the demo of free BBC Discover sounds better in my opinion...

I am not even talking about the free SINE Factory package from Orchestral Tools with Helix strings straight from the Berlin series and the grand piano...


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## mybadmemory

3DC said:


> I am now on waiting list for Discover edition of BBC SO. Meanwhile I am reading your helpful suggestions and looking at all sorts of library presentations on YT. I totally forgot about sale opportunities! This opens up all sorts of additional "hunting" choices.
> 
> About BBC SO:
> 
> As far as I understand there are absolutely no difference between CORE and PRO version in BBC SO except for additional microphone positions for PRO version.
> 
> Here are things that I don't understand from your comments:
> 
> What's the difference between separate solo violin and violin 1 ( leader ) in BBC SO? Isn't that the same thing?
> I assume that the number after VIOLAS (12), VIOLINS 1 (16) and other instruments in BBC SO designates the number of players?
> Why would you then need a separate strings library for BBC SO?
> Why the need for ensemble patches in BBC SO? Can you just combine and compose from existing options in BBC SO to get ensemble result?
> I thought that BBC SO is like LEGO ( sorry for analogy ) where you can freely build-compose anything from scratch while other libraries are much more "assembled" or "theme-oriented" for relatively fast professional result.
> 
> Please forgive my ignorance and thanks again for your valuable guidance guys.


The difference between Core and Pro is mainly the mic positions, but also a couple of additional instruments. Most notably the string leaders (solo strings), and some of the more obscure wind and brass instruments like bass flute, cimbasso, etc. Apart from the string leaders (solo strings), all of the most usual instruments are there in core. You can do a full comparison on the website.

1. They are the same.
2. Yes.
3. For Core users, some people like to add the string leaders (solo strings) from another library. Other users might just want to add another string library to have more choice. The strings in BBCSO are really good though.
4. You can combine them for the same result yes. It's a little more fiddly and more demanding on the CPU/RAM, than if they were pre-baked, but it sure is possible.

Your lego analogy holds true! Ensemble based libraries are more pre-assembled for quicker use. Section based ones are more versatile.


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## antanasb

mybadmemory said:


> The difference between Core and Pro is mainly the mic positions, but also a couple of additional instruments. Most notably the string leaders (solo strings), and some of the more obscure wind and brass instruments like bass flute, cimbasso, etc. Apart from the string leaders (solo strings), all of the most usual instruments are there in core. You can do a full comparison on the website.
> 
> 1. They are the same.
> 2. Yes.
> 3. For Core users, some people like to add the string leaders (solo strings) from another library. Other users might just want to add another string library to have more choice. The strings in BBCSO are really good though.
> 4. You can combine them for the same result yes. It's a little more fiddly and more demanding on the CPU/RAM, than if they were pre-baked, but it sure is possible.
> 
> Your lego analogy holds true! Ensemble based libraries are more pre-assembled for quicker use. Section based ones are more versatile.


Was about to post exactly the same, though for #4 I might add that ensemble patches in Abbey Road and Albion One were recorded this way. Not recorded separately and then blended. This sounds more authentic, as all of the instruments were interacting with the room together. It sounds more cohesive...

It is similar to having one solo violin recorded and then having 16 tracks of solo violin to have the full v1 section... It just doesn't work and sound the same as proper full v1 section....

And on top of that, you have the simplicity and speed of ensembles at the tradeoff of versatility and signature sound (as @mybadmemory just pointed out)...


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## PaulieDC

bill5 said:


> Some of the suggestions are pretty expensive and the OP already said he wanted to keep costs down; Amadeus Orchestra is very inexpensive and is about as all-in-one as you're going to get generally. I have not used but it seems to get good reviews, well worth considering.
> 
> Also someone pls confirm if I'm off but it appears Spitfire Core has no solos OR ensembles? Doesn't sound like a good beginner library to me given that, even if it does sound great and you can get a great sale price.


True, at list price. That's where patience becomes your friend, lol. What I paid:


Albion One: $225. 50% off sale
Spitfire Chamber Strings Pro: $499. 50% off sale
BBCSO Core: $300. They graciously gave me Discover, then when I went to purchase Core on sale for $349, they gave me the $49 credit for "owning" Discover! Who does that??

Then I saved $300 on my car insurance in 15 minutes with Geico.

Amazing how it all worked out.


----------



## bill5

antanasb said:


> Now, please, tell me, that they indeed all sound equally good...


? Please show me where that was my contention. My contention is the difference in the sound quality is not a night and day diff. I am not trying to put down Spitfire Core at all, but you continue to ignore the considerable advantage Amadeus has in terms of features and cost and (as far as I can tell) ease of use, all which the OP considered important factors, and contrary to your claims, sounds pretty freakin good. Amadeus therefore fits what he needs much better overall and therefore obviously merits consideration. Just my .02.


----------



## antanasb

bill5 said:


> ? Please show me where that was my contention. My contention is the difference in the sound quality is not a night and day diff. I am not trying to put down Spitfire Core at all, but you continue to ignore the considerable advantage Amadeus has in terms of features and cost and (as far as I can tell) ease of use, all which the OP considered important factors, and contrary to your claims, sounds pretty freakin good. Amadeus therefore fits what he needs much better overall and therefore obviously merits consideration. Just my .02.



Fair enough — let’s agree to disagree..

I, personally, wouldn’t spend my money on Amadeus because of the sound, and I certainly would not recommend it to anyone else...

And 30% difference in price is not considerable advantage, I would say... 

In my home country we have a saying — “greedy pays twice...” If you are really interested in composition, you will still buy something better, so why waste money on below average libraries? Majority — you can’t resell so it will be basically money thrown out the window...


----------



## Syneast

For scoring to picture, I can't get by without my Albions 1, 3 and One. They have so much more stuff than just the traditional orchestra that I find myself using all the time. The orchestral stuff is decent but the brass in particular is hard to write with.

If you want to go further with orchestral stuff, look for libraries that have "the filmscore sound" right out of the box, even without reverb. There are many different "the filmscore sound", so listen to demos and decide what kind of sound tickles your fancy. I think this is important when starting out. Feeling like my first scores sounded just like the movies I liked was always a big deal for me.

You've got a lot of great suggestions already, but I want to also add Berlin Orchestra Inspire, which I have and it's bloody brilliant for what it is.


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## bill5

antanasb said:


> Fair enough — let’s agree to disagree..
> 
> I, personally, wouldn’t spend my money on Amadeus because of the sound, and I certainly would not recommend it to anyone else...
> 
> And 30% difference in price is not considerable advantage, I would say...


You're missing a zero.  It's 300% more expensive, unless he wants to wait until Thanksgiving.



antanasb said:


> In my home country we have a saying — “greedy pays twice...” If you are really interested in composition, you will still buy something better, so why waste money on below average libraries? Majority — you can’t resell so it will be basically money thrown out the window...


1. Because it's not below average
2. Because it matches the stated needs of the OP far better
3. Because cost matters. Most of us don't have unlimited funds to throw at libraries etc

As you say, agree to disagree, more or less. PS note I am not saying "no way should he get Spitfire Core; Amadeus is way better!" Just to look before he leaps.


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Not sure how much truth there is to it, but I heard once that Amadeus contains a large chunk of EW Symphonic Orchestra. If this is true, that sounds like a decent starter package.


----------



## vitocorleone123

Audio Imperia Nucleus


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## Geomir

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not sure how much truth there is to it, but I heard once that Amadeus contains a large chunk of EW Symphonic Orchestra. If this is true, that sounds like a decent starter package.


Then why not get EWQLSO Gold itself? With the permanent 60% sales, plus the extra sales in sites like AudioDeluxe or EveryPlugin, the 2 libraries have almost the same cost. 

EDIT: It seems that this permanent 60% is not active now, but I suppose it will happen again very soon.


----------



## Geomir

vitocorleone123 said:


> Audio Imperia Nucleus


I think this is the most sure reply (a suggestion that just can't be wrong) for someone that is starting, and wants a little bit of everything, including sections, solo instruments, even sound design and choirs, all the basic articulations (including true legato), in a modern interface compatible with the Free Kontakt Player.


----------



## antanasb

bill5 said:


> You're missing a zero.  It's 300% more expensive, unless he wants to wait until Thanksgiving.
> 
> 
> 1. Because it's not below average
> 2. Because it matches the stated needs of the OP far better
> 3. Because cost matters. Most of us don't have unlimited funds to throw at libraries etc
> 
> As you say, agree to disagree, more or less. PS note I am not saying "no way should he get Spitfire Core; Amadeus is way better!" Just to look before he leaps.


If I may continue to respectfully disagree -- I think that only a handful of people here actually buy libraries while they are not on either introductory or a later sale. I, of course, can't speak for the others, but for the price of Albion One or BBC Symphony Core (449€) I basically got both of them, just by waiting out. Now, of course, if patient waiting is not an option -- that is a different thing. But even then, in such a case there are wonderful free options, which can really get you started either from Spitfire Audio (LABS) or now recently Orchestral Tools (SINE Factory). Also, let's not forget that there is The Free Orchestra from Symphobia.. All of them are outstanding free samples that you can download and use for free right now, and you don't have to wait until the next sale.. Or 14 days for BBC Discover, for that matter also, as the OP decided to do... 

1. In my opinion, the average all-in-one library can now be regarded as Abbey Road One, Berlin Orchestra Inspire, Albion One, Nucleus, Metropolis Ark and similar. Some of them have been out there for a number of years (the precursor to Albion One, Albion I was released now more than 10 years ago, I think...). All of them are priced really quite reasonably when on sale, and compared to what you would have to pay for hiring an orchestra it is basically nothing. And you really get a good, production ready sound, which you did not have to immediately change if you had something better... (At least in my opinion)

I am not talking about something like Berlin Series, which sounds stellar, but the cost is rather steep for the whole orchestra..

2. As far as I remember, majority of this thread recommended Albion One instead, which is easier to use with ensemble patches, but OP made his mind about it and chose to go with the free BBC Discover for the mean time. (Which is an excellent library in itself).

3. Yes, that's why there are sales. Sometimes there are exceptional deals available... Also, in my opinion, despite the short-term cost you still need to think about long-term investment. Especially, if you are decently determined to do this for quite some time. I really think that sometimes it is quite so much better to squeeze the buttocks for the meantime and get the better thing once, than pay twice and still get the same better thing but later, and have this other "semi-professional" thing laying around... The better thing will inspire you more, and you will value it and the time you spend with it more.. 

This "semi-professional" upgrade so-to-speak, I find, is valid not only for orchestral libraries, so I personally try to refrain from buying into such options...

Cheers!


----------



## antanasb

3DC said:


> Guys I think I will pass Audio Imperia Nucleus and other suggested libraries. Apparently Nucleus doesn't have harp patch and some other essential percussion. Other libraries are fine but not really in line to "All in One" philosophy I am looking for.
> 
> Remember I am total beginner so it will take a lot of time and learning for me before I can produce anything decent. For now I will play and learn with BBC SO Discover version but thanks to @antanasb clever hint when the sale comes I am going for PRO version.
> 
> The only other option that I find interesting after reading your suggestions here is EWHO or Composer Cloud but this one is huge (way over TB of data) and based on subscription. Clearly not intended for newbies like me. Yeah I know BBC SO is not either but I have to start somewhere.


Start with downloading the free offerings I mentioned. They will really get you going in no time!

Good luck in your journey!


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## shapeshifter00

3DC said:


> Guys I think I will pass Audio Imperia Nucleus and other suggested libraries. Apparently Nucleus doesn't have harp patch and some other essential percussion. Other libraries are fine but not really in line to "All in One" philosophy I am looking for.
> 
> Remember I am total beginner so it will take a lot of time and learning for me before I can produce anything decent. For now I will play and learn with BBC SO Discover version but thanks to @antanasb clever hint when the sale comes I am going for PRO version.
> 
> The only other option that I find interesting after reading your suggestions here is EWHO or Composer Cloud but this one is huge (way over TB of data) and based on subscription. Clearly not intended for newbies like me. Yeah I know BBC SO is not either but I have to start somewhere.


BBC is a great library that many recommend. Perhaps later that could be something.
Why not look into the Spitfire Originals? Get Epic Strings + Woods/Brass and Percussion + Orchestral Tools Majestic Horn (2£ library)? Will be 97$ and is based on the orginal Albion. You can make lots of good things with that and combine it with free libraries from Orchestral Tools and Spitfire Labs. That will be an amazing start for approximately 100$.


----------



## Maxime Luft

antanasb said:


> I am not talking about something like Berlin Series, which sounds stellar, but the cost is rather steep for the whole orchestra..



Or you can just get HELIX for free which is essentially spiccatos from Berlin Strings + sustains
https://orchestraltools.com/sinefactory
And the Majestic Horn which is a cinematic horn instrument (with true legato) for 2,00€








Majestic Horn


Majestic Horn has been designed as an inspiring sketching tool that everyone can afford. Be surprised by the quality of this expressive solo legato patch as well as by the power of superbly recorded sustains. Performed by Rafael Oliveros Recorded in a large hall to capture natural reflections




www.orchestraltools.com





That would be *MY *personal suggestion for every beginner with orchestral music!


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## antanasb

Maxime Luft said:


> Or you can just get HELIX for free which is essentially spiccatos from Berlin Strings + sustains
> https://orchestraltools.com/sinefactory
> And the Majestic Horn which is a cinematic horn instrument (with true legato) for 2,00€
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Majestic Horn
> 
> 
> Majestic Horn has been designed as an inspiring sketching tool that everyone can afford. Be surprised by the quality of this expressive solo legato patch as well as by the power of superbly recorded sustains. Performed by Rafael Oliveros Recorded in a large hall to capture natural reflections
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.orchestraltools.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be *MY *personal suggestion for every beginner with orchestral music!



Damn that horn sounds nice!

Will have to get it later today myself...


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## Maxime Luft

antanasb said:


> Damn that horn sounds nice!
> 
> Will have to get it later today myself...


Some people claim it sounds as good as in the demos
On a serious note: The demos are totally clean and there aren't any effects. It's literally what you get once you downloaded Majestic Horn. Have fun!


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## Pier

antanasb said:


> I would REALLY not recommend the Amadeus Orchestra. Although it is cheap, it does not sound like it was recorded in a proper recording hall, which is very important


For learning composition and orchestration, Amadeus is an amazing package as you get *a ton* of content.


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## Jeremy Spencer

3DC said:


> The only other option that I find interesting after reading your suggestions here is EWHO or Composer Cloud but this one is huge (way over TB of data) and based on subscription. Clearly not intended for newbies like me. Yeah I know BBC SO is not either but I have to start somewhere.


On the contrary, it is perfect for a newbie like you. It includes EW Symphonic Orchestra, which is excellent in its own right (I still use it). It literally has everything, including solo instruments from every section, a nice harp, percussion, and a nice Steinway. Plus, you only download the libraries you want to use, not the whole cloud.


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## vitocorleone123

3DC said:


> Guys I think I will pass Audio Imperia Nucleus and other suggested libraries. Apparently Nucleus doesn't have harp patch and some other essential percussion. Other libraries are fine but not really in line to "All in One" philosophy I am looking for.
> 
> Remember I am total beginner so it will take a lot of time and learning for me before I can produce anything decent. For now I will play and learn with BBC SO Discover version but thanks to @antanasb clever hint when the sale comes I am going for PRO version.
> 
> The only other option that I find interesting after reading your suggestions here is EWHO or Composer Cloud but this one is huge (way over TB of data) and based on subscription. Clearly not intended for newbies like me. Yeah I know BBC SO is not either but I have to start somewhere.


I wasn't aware of an "entry level" or "starter library" of quality that had every instrument - and useful articulations for as many instruments as possible for a lower price (BBC SO also didn't exist when I purchased Nucleus for $300), that's also easy to use. Thankfully, I've never needed a harp - but I know there's some good ones that aren't expensive I could always add!

It's all give and take and trade-offs when looking at all-in-one libraries, so if you don't need some of the things Nucleus offers that BBCSO doesn't, then definitely go for whatever library best fits what you believe your needs to be. Good luck, and have fun!


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## antanasb

Pier said:


> For learning composition and orchestration, Amadeus is an amazing package as you get *a ton* of content.



That’s okay. Personally, I would not spend ~150$ to get a library just for learning. I would better spend 30% more and get a library which is really good for learning AND sounds decent, so that you can actually have it in your mockups and not be bothered about it sounding “not up to par”...

At least that is the view I got, from the original demos on Amadeus product page...

And I stand by my point respectfully. It really sounds that bad compared to other options.. To me.. 🙂


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## Pier

antanasb said:


> That’s okay. Personally, I would not spend ~150$ to get a library just for learning. I would better spend 30% more and get a library which is really good for learning AND sounds decent, so that you can actually have it in your mockups and not be bothered about it sounding “not up to par”...
> 
> At least that is the view I got, from the original demos on Amadeus product page...
> 
> And I stand by my point respectfully. It really sounds that bad compared to other options.. To me.. 🙂


Albion One is extremely limited compared to Amadeus. You don't get sections nor solo instruments and not many articulations either.

It does sound much nicer, but if your intention is learning orchestration, Albion One is completely useless.


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## Jeremy Spencer

3DC said:


> With tinny 200MB I think I'll stick with BBC SO Discover


200MB?


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## Jeremy Spencer

3DC said:


> Discover version of BBC SO is actually only 200MB.
> See the comparison here.


Wow! That’s pretty cool. A no brainer for sure.


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## antanasb

Pier said:


> Albion One is extremely limited compared to Amadeus. You don't get sections nor solo instruments and not many articulations either.
> 
> It does sound much nicer, but if your intention is learning orchestration, Albion One is completely useless.



Orchestration in traditional sense? Most probably.. But to study orchestration traditionally — do you need such a library at all?

Then again, do you really need to study traditional orchestration to be able to write some orchestral music for your video? Probably not..

Either way, I still think that you can learn how chords and e.g. their particular inversions sound, and work out what and how things work in an orchestra even with ensembles in Albion One.. At least I started with it.. (or with epic strings and brass to be true) Furthermore, if your intention is to actually score your own videos as fast and as easily as possible (as OP stated in his OP), Albion One is really a good starting point in my opinion..

Despite all that, what I had in my mind in earlier posts was BBC Core, not Albion One. BBC Core is a more direct comparison to the Amadeus Orchestra. Also, a few posts ago OP had made the decision to go with BBC, which I think is a great choice. And quite much better than the Amadeus Orchestra, in my opinion, as I have yet to find an example where Amadeus Orchestra sounds on par..

If you have a link to such example — please share! I am really interested!


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## Maxime Luft

antanasb said:


> Orchestration in traditional sense? Most probably.. But to study orchestration traditionally — do you need such a library at all?
> 
> Then again, do you really need to study traditional orchestration to be able to write some orchestral music for your video? Probably not..
> 
> Either way, I still think that you can learn how chords and e.g. their particular inversions sound, and work out what and how things work in an orchestra even with ensembles in Albion One.. At least I started with it.. (or with epic strings and brass to be true) Furthermore, if your intention is to actually score your own videos as fast and as easily as possible (as OP stated in his OP), Albion One is really a good starting point in my opinion..
> 
> Despite all that, what I had in my mind in earlier posts was BBC Core, not Albion One. BBC Core is a more direct comparison to the Amadeus Orchestra. Also, a few posts ago OP had made the decision to go with BBC, which I think is a great choice. And quite much better than the Amadeus Orchestra, in my opinion, as I have yet to find an example where Amadeus Orchestra sounds on par..
> 
> If you have a link to such example — please share! I am really interested!


Honestly... Sometimes we find some fancy words like orchestration and such, but what it's all about is just some good sounding stuff. Orchestration is more about a common way to arrange things but man, take good samples, follow your ears, have fun, and this way you will learn so much more than by following the rules of orchestration with boring samples... 

My 2c


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## Pier

antanasb said:


> Despite all that, what I had in my mind in earlier posts was BBC Core, not Albion One. BBC Core is a more direct comparison to the Amadeus Orchestra. Also, a few posts ago OP had made the decision to go with BBC, which I think is a great choice. And quite much better than the Amadeus Orchestra, in my opinion, as I have yet to find an example where Amadeus Orchestra sounds on par..


Oh yeah BBC Core provides (IMO) much more value than Albion One and both sound waaay better than Amadeus.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree Amadeus sounds terrible, but for $150 I think it's great for learning and getting your feet wet.

$449 for BBC Core is quite an investment though if you're not committed to this composition thing.


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## SupremeFist

I would strongly recommend BBCSO Core over Abbey Road (I have both as well as other stuff) as a single library for a newbie. Abbey might seem easier to handle because of the ensembles, but I think it would be very frustrating and limiting as one's only library, amazing as the general sound is.


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## antanasb

Pier said:


> Oh yeah BBC Core provides (IMO) much more value than Albion One and both sound waaay better than Amadeus.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I totally agree Amadeus sounds terrible, but for $150 I think it's great for learning and getting your feet wet.
> 
> $449 for BBC Core is quite an investment though if you're not committed to this composition thing.



Well, I got it at a sale with the Discovery reduction taking the 449€ to 220€... Quite a deal, right?


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## Pier

antanasb said:


> Well, I got it at a sale with the Discovery reduction taking the 449€ to 220€... Quite a deal, right?


Absolutely!


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## antanasb

Maxime Luft said:


> Honestly... Sometimes we find some fancy words like orchestration and such, but what it's all about is just some good sounding stuff. Orchestration is more about a common way to arrange things but man, take good samples, follow your ears, have fun, and this way you will learn so much more than by following the rules of orchestration with boring samples...
> 
> My 2c


Couldn't have said better myself.

But that majestic horn.. Damn... *Someone is getting horny...*


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## marclawsonmusic

Maxime Luft said:


> Orchestration is more about a common way to arrange things but man, take good samples, follow your ears, have fun, and this way you will learn so much more than by following the rules of orchestration with boring samples...


Funny, but my experience was the opposite. 

I learned more about orchestration by taking a good piece of music and rendering it with shitty samples (Kontakt Factory Library). The end result wasn't amazing, but it was still pretty good! 

A good arrangement and good MIDI programming will actually take you a long way. Maybe even further than having the best samples.


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## Composer 2021

If you get BBCSO Discover for free now, you can wait until their next big sale and then get Core for 55 percent off. You get two different discounts, that being the sale and already owning Discover.


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## Maxime Luft

marclawsonmusic said:


> Funny, but my experience was the opposite.
> 
> I learned more about orchestration by taking a good piece of music and rendering it with shitty samples (Kontakt Factory Library). The end result wasn't amazing, but it was still pretty good!
> 
> A good arrangement and good MIDI programming will actually take you a long way. Maybe even further than having the best samples.


Sure, sounds good as well! I did the same with some MIDI files of some Stravinsky. It worked much better than I would have thought! 

My post was more about trying to learn from scratch with a blank template, trying to arrange a few chords according to some books and theories


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## Moruzgva

Since I'm new to composing orchestral things do you think it's cheating to use library: The Orchestra Complete from Sonuscore?


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## antanasb

Moruzgva said:


> Since I'm new to composing orchestral things do you think it's cheating to use library: The Orchestra Complete from Sonuscore?



What do you want to achieve?


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## Moruzgva

I mean,this engine it's layered with finished product,and especially wtih arpeggios..you just have to press keys on keyboard and that's it,the orchestar sound is here..So,is it cheating to those who writes all by themself? layerd sound with other libraries and make those arpeggios?


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## antanasb

Moruzgva said:


> I mean,this engine it's layered with finished product,and especially wtih arpeggios..you just have to press keys on keyboard and that's it,the orchestar sound is here..So,is it cheating to those who writes all by themself? layerd sound with other libraries and make those arpeggios?


Yes, but what is your goal? If the goal is to compete with other composers who write with pen and paper in who is more "authentic" -- then probably yes. If the goal is to just to make some music -- it is exactly why such tools exist...

So, what is your goal?


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## antanasb

Okay, let's try differently...

If probably nobody had a possibility to record a real orchestra, and used some sort of library for that, is that not cheating also then along your logic?


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## Moruzgva

I guess so.I have very low self-esteem,and I'm worrying that my project is not maybe fair to those who layered those string section by themself and with this arpeggio thing


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## antanasb

Moruzgva said:


> I guess so.I have very low self-esteem,and I'm worrying that my project is not maybe fair to those who layered those string section by themself and with this arpeggio thing


Pressing few keys on a keyboard or writing them down could be not fair to those who played in the entire orchestra by themselves, right?


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## Kurosawa

There is nothing unfair about using The Orchestra Complete from Sonuscore, it's only a tool for creating music.
So don't worry so much, everything is fine!


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## Moruzgva

Yeah,I'm maybe worrying too much


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## sonicscores

Thought I would chime in to let whoever started the rumor, Amadeus does not contain even one sample from East West.

Also the demos were created in a very simple straight ahead manner and are not altered with effects, remixing, etc. Cory Pelizzari's demo shows what you can do if you spend a little more time.


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## Geomir

sonicscores said:


> Thought I would chime in to let whoever started the rumor, Amadeus does not contain even one sample from East West.
> 
> Also the demos were created in a very simple straight ahead manner and are not altered with effects, remixing, etc. Cory Pelizzari's demo shows what you can do if you spend a little more time.



I think Cory's amazing demo is the main reason most of us pulled the trigger for Amadeus. Is there an update coming? I think you mentioned something like that in a previous post, right?


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## sonicscores

Well we were, then another separate came up, and then Covid hit. We are talking about it again and looking at possibly this summer. The plan is to improve a few things in Amadeus and add about ten instruments. I hope I don't open up a can of worms, but if anybody has an idea for what new instruments should be added, here is a chance to let us know.


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## robgb

sonicscores said:


> Thought I would chime in to let whoever started the rumor, Amadeus does not contain even one sample from East West.
> 
> Also the demos were created in a very simple straight ahead manner and are not altered with effects, remixing, etc. Cory Pelizzari's demo shows what you can do if you spend a little more time.



I personally love this library.


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## el-bo

sonicscores said:


> If anybody has an idea for what new instruments should be added, here is a chance to let us know.


Actually...never mind


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## bill5

sonicscores said:


> Well we were, then another separate came up, and then Covid hit. We are talking about it again and looking at possibly this summer. The plan is to improve a few things in Amadeus and add about ten instruments. I hope I don't open up a can of worms, but if anybody has an idea for what new instruments should be added, here is a chance to let us know.


Harp is the only obvious one IMO. Marimba would be nice. But honestly it's already one of the most complete libraries around, props, as I shop around I'm becoming a fan  Offhand I would prefer improvements to existing stuff vs more stuff.


----------



## bill5

sonicscores said:


> Cory Pelizzari's demo shows what you can do if you spend a little more time.



Really nice demo, although I've always hated the term "sketching library." To me always sounds like "eh, good enough to work up some ideas but not use for a final cut." Heck I can use VSCO for that. From what I'm hearing I think this is worthy for final cuts.


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## sonicscores

The harp is already in the library and a marimba and vibraphone are the first instruments being added.

If some of you have some existing Amadeus issues that you think need addressing, please do so but keep it simple.

We also believe Amadeus sounds good enough for some final cuts with a few exceptions. It is a shame that some people just can't get over the fact that you get a good quality library for such a small price and therefore try to compare it to libraries costing two to three times as much. It is what it is, a very good sounding library at a very low cost.

To address the demo issue this is my feeling. Never judge a library by the demos. Would you buy a car based on a TV commercial or would you drive the car first. Unfortunately most libraries do not have a demo, so I do understand the problem. My advice is for those listening to posts to help with their decision, is to listen to those who own the library being discussed and their comments on what they have found. Many years ago I purchased several libraries based on the company demos and I and another coworker could never come close to getting any of the instruments to sound as good as the demos and to this day I still wonder how they did it.

For the record the demos were not professionally done but were examples of pieces from a few users.


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## bill5

sonicscores said:


> Th harp is already in the library and a marimba and vibraphone are the first instruments being added.


Thanks for the info. FYI harp is not listed in the instruments on the web site, suggest updating 




> We also believe Amadeus sounds good enough for some final cuts with a few exceptions.


I would be curious to know what you think those exceptions are?


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## sonicscores

Thanks and the harp has been added to the list on the website.

One exception is the choir could have more syllables. That is all I am willing to state.


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## secondtiersound

There is also the Symphobia 1 and 2. (and even orchestral essentials) by ProjectSam
Yes, they are old, but hear me out.

A lot of sections are premixed, prepanned, and in some sense orchestrated for you. If you are an absolute beginner, the more advanced libraries like for example BBC, and Hollywood Orchestra can be a bit overwhelming. In fact, they still sound fantastic. 

And each patch is very inspiring, and easy to use. I started out using these myself back in the day, even though I don't use them so much today (because of workflow, not because of sound)
Otherwise Nuclues, Inpsire, and/or Cinesymphony

Cheers!


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## Greeno

I'm running a free session tomorrow night that might help you, check my thread post in the list.


----------

