# Jazz upright bass



## hag01 (Sep 10, 2021)

Looking for a jazz upright bass.

Trilian sounds good, it has some other stuff that could be useful, and will complete my collection, as I already have Omnisphere and Keyscape, but correct me if I wrong, some essetntial articulations are missing from Trilan's upright bass.

So to some up, I need an upright bass library, that sounds good, realistic, and with comprehensive set of articulation,
Shoot.


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## jimjazzuk (Sep 10, 2021)

I've used Straight Ahead Samples Bass for years and it's always done the job for me


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## Heizenhaus (Sep 10, 2021)

Ample Sound ABU. Bolder Sounds Roots Upright Bass.


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## CGR (Sep 10, 2021)

jimjazzuk said:


> I've used Straight Ahead Samples Bass for years and it's always done the job for me


+1. Also, I've read good things about this one:









Acoustic Bass Premier G


Acoustic Bass Premier G PREMIER SOUND FACTORY Upright bass library in 96kHz/24bit for NI Kontakt Full version (NOT Kontakt Player) Buy Now $75 “Acoustic Bass Premier G” & “Bass Premier G” Bass Pack for NI Kontakt Full version (NOT Kontakt…




premiersoundfactory.com


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## Oxytoxine (Sep 10, 2021)

I believe that at the end of september, the toontrack upright ezbass expansion will be released - seems to be rather nice.

The straight ahead jazz bass sounds nice, but be aware that there are almost no articulations. 

In chris hein bass there is an upright one with tons of articulations (metion this because you asked for a comprehensive set of articulations).


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## LudovicVDP (Sep 10, 2021)

Simple Jazz Bass


Visit the post for more.




www.fluffyaudio.com


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## doctoremmet (Sep 10, 2021)

Good ones are: SA Samples, Fluffy Audio, Trillian. I also want to mention Modwheel’s The Lowdown v2.


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## Rob (Sep 10, 2021)

if it's articulations you need, VSL acoustic bass has many, for 59€. Good tone too


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## hag01 (Sep 10, 2021)

Rob said:


> if it's articulations you need, VSL acoustic bass has many, for 59€. Good tone too


If I remember correctly, I need some hardware dongle before I get any VSL product, is it correct?
This prevented me to get any VSL product so far.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 10, 2021)

hag01 said:


> If I remember correctly, I need some hardware dongle before I get any VSL product, is it correct?
> This prevented me to get any VSL product so far.


Yes. They will switch to iLok, but at the moment you’d still need an eLicenser (the same dongle that is used for Cubase). Sooner rather than later you won’t need this dongle anymore, but I cannot tell you “how much sooner”


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## hag01 (Sep 10, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Yes. They will switch to iLok, but at the moment you’d still need an eLicenser (the same dongle that is used for Cubase). Sooner rather than later you won’t need this dongle anymore, but I cannot tell you “how much sooner”


Oh, I have eLicenser, so it's OK.
For some reason I remembered incorrectly that VSL has their own special dongle.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 10, 2021)

hag01 said:


> Oh, I have eLicenser, so it's OK.
> For some reason I remembered incorrectly that VSL has their own special dongle.


Then I’d seriously consider the VSL bass.


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## hag01 (Sep 10, 2021)

I checked out now some of your suggestions, I wonder why no library has slap articulation,
Maybe there is another more professional name for "slap"


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## Zanshin (Sep 10, 2021)

Yup the VSL jazz upright is awesome. They have a set of jazz drums as well that are highly regarded (I went with SD3 Decades instead).

For the VI player (older player) you can buy the bass (and jazz drums) ala carte. For the new Synchron Player you have to buy the bass as part of a Plucked Instruments set along with a Concert Guitar and metal guitar (lol). The Concert Guitar is really good though.


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## Zanshin (Sep 10, 2021)

Slap... I think would be Stopped Hard in the VSL articulations.


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## devonmyles (Sep 10, 2021)

I like the VSL Acoustic... plenty of articulations and a very nice tone. I can get a decent, swinging performance out of it when playing the parts live.


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## Heizenhaus (Sep 10, 2021)

hag01 said:


> I checked out now some of your suggestions, I wonder why no library has slap articulation,
> Maybe there is another more professional name for "slap"


Then you ignored the Roots Upright Bass, which has the slap articulation. But I think that most libraries don't have it because it isn't used much in most ("modern") Jazz genres.


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## doctoremmet (Sep 10, 2021)

Definitely check out @DSmolken ‘s more than excellent Vengeful Bass. The man can slap! I can’t believe I didn’t even mention it right away. Maybe because jazz isn’t my prime association when I think of this one:


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## DSmolken (Sep 10, 2021)

Yeah. slap is rockabilly or older jazz styles, and the two are pretty different. Funny real-life story: yeah, I do a lot of the swing-style slap, mostly from having played a lot of stuff with no drums or with cajon. One day, one guy I was playing in a band with asked me if I can play slap. I gave him the confused "whadayamean, I do that every gig" and it turns out he wanted to know whether it's possible to play electric-style slap bass on double bass. So, different kinds of slap are so different that some people don't even think of them as slap.

For walking basslines, you don't really need a lot of articulations or round robins or even dynamics, but you do need to have some release noises, string muting, transitions between notes or... some sort of dirt inbetween the notes. If you need bass solos, you will probably want portamento slides and the ability to add vibrato, and you'll definitely need high range.

Vengeful Bass (thanks for the mention, Doc!) does have swing-style slaps, and two varieties of pizz each with its own set of ghost notes, plus release noises and string-muting noises.


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## FireGS (Sep 10, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> I believe that at the end of september, the toontrack upright ezbass expansion will be released - seems to be rather nice.


Where'd you hear this? Any audio demos?


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## Oxytoxine (Sep 10, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Where'd you hear this? Any audio demos?


It was in a promo mail. Unfortunately no audio demos, I extrapolated the "seems rather nice" from my experience with the other EZ basses, which I was demoing then and surprised me positively (previously ignorantly thought that EZBass is rather a gimmick, but the instrument itself seemed nice to me).


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## Oxytoxine (Sep 10, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Good ones are: SA Samples, Fluffy Audio, Trillian. I also want to mention Modwheel’s The Lowdown v2.


Thanks for bringing this up. How would you compare SA with the Fluffy Audio Bass? I have the first, but was not aware of the Fluffy one. Just listened to demos, sounds fantastic and rather "multifaceted" to me (considering there seems to be no articulation switching involved)! I was a bit disappointed with SA (was not aware that there are no real articulations and bought it "blindly" due to the many recommendations), but I probably should have spent more time with it - will do this tonight


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## Kirk1701 (Sep 10, 2021)

I gotta say, the plain-jane Kontakt library upright and jazz basses are quite usable. The functionality is a bit fiddly (pun intended), but they're quite convincing alongside the right strings and horns.


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## Colin66 (Sep 10, 2021)

Don't know if this is any use to you, thought I'd post this in case it is.









The Cool Jazz Collection


The COOL JAZZ COLLECTION is a specially curated library of 5 instruments designed to embody the cool jazz idiom. With a Miles Davis / Chet Baker style and feel. Perfect for moody, brooding noir style ‘cool’ jazz. A sub-genre that has yet to be properly explored in the sample world, until now. A...




insanitysamples.com


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## doctoremmet (Sep 10, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> Thanks for bringing this up. How would you compare SA with the Fluffy Audio Bass? I have the first, but was not aware of the Fluffy one. Just listened to demos, sounds fantastic and rather "multifaceted" to me (considering there seems to be no articulation switching involved)! I was a bit disappointed with SA (was not aware that there are no real articulations and bought it "blindly" due to the many recommendations), but I probably should have spent more time with it - will do this tonight


Well… I’d argue the Fluffy Audio one has the edge.


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## Aldunate (Sep 10, 2021)

I've got great results with UJAM Mellow


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## Polkasound (Sep 10, 2021)

I own the both the SA Samples upright bass and the Orange Tree Core Pear upright bass, but my favorite is the Backbeat Bass by Art Vista. To me it's the most "alive" sounding of them all.


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## kgdrum (Sep 10, 2021)

Am I the only person here that is hoping that Orangetree eventually releases an updated Pear v2?

@gregjazz


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## Heizenhaus (Sep 10, 2021)

kgdrum said:


> Am I the only person here that is hoping that Orangetree eventually releases an updated Pear v2?
> 
> @gregjazz


No you're not.


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## DSmolken (Sep 10, 2021)

That was The One back in the day, wasn't it?


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Sep 10, 2021)

Apart from Kontakt bass and Afflatus 1st chair, UJAM Mellow is the only other upright I own. I have to say, in terms of ease of use, getting quick results, and value for money (if purchased during sale), I keep Mellow in very high regard; also I think it's the best of UJAM bass offerings by far (I didn't try Dandy).

Having said that, I'm also waiting for EBX Upright to be released and that's why I didn't buy SA! Bass despite it being 50% off right now.


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## Oxytoxine (Sep 10, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Well… I’d argue the Fluffy Audio one has the edge.


Thanks! We have to make a deal - your recommendations are starting to get expensive, so I ask for shelter and food if I will be poor


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## doctoremmet (Sep 10, 2021)

Oxytoxine said:


> Thanks! We have to make a deal - your recommendations are starting to get expensive, so I ask for shelter and food if I will be poor


Well… I am living under a Swindon railway bridge next to @Markrs who was kind enough to organize a raffle where he gave away 5 free cardbox boxes to live in. And I was one of the lucky winners. This was right after the last Spitfire and 8Dio spring sales when my house was auctioned off and I was out of kidneys left to sell. So you’re more than welcome to join us there!


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## hag01 (Sep 10, 2021)

About the slap not used in modern jazz thing.

I listen a lot to jazz from the 40’s-60’s, and I think I hear there some slap from time to time, but maybe I don’t understand what I’m hearing.

Anyway, many jazz classics were made at those times.


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## kgdrum (Sep 10, 2021)

hag01 said:


> About the slap not used in modern jazz thing.
> 
> I listen a lot to jazz from the 40-60, and I think I hear there some slap from time to time, but maybe I don’t understand what I’m hearing.
> 
> Anyway, many jazz classics were made at those times.


It depends on the bassist,one of my favorites, Charlie Mingus often slapped his bass. I might be mistaken but I seem to think Ron Carter occasionally slaps.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Sep 10, 2021)

there was a bass VI that was highly sought after a few years ago, but the developer dropped it.

Japanese developer.

vague enough for anyone to remember?

i was in contact with him for a bit, he promised to re-release it, but never happened - that I am aware of.


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## DSmolken (Sep 10, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> there was a bass VI that was highly sought after a few years ago, but the developer dropped it.
> 
> Japanese developer.
> 
> ...


Since returned: https://premiersoundfactory.com/acoustic-bass-premier-g/

As for slap, it's really more of a big band thing, and not a small combo thing. Swing, not bebop.


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## chrisdiablomusic (Sep 10, 2021)

I'll add my seal of approval to the UJAM Mellow bass. I bought it as a REASON extension to use in the REASON Effects Rack VST, which I use in Reaper. I got it very cheap in a bundle and was surprised at how playable and authentic sounding it is. Pretty easy to control once you get the hang of the UJAM workflow (which doesn't take long at all)


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## Zoot_Rollo (Sep 10, 2021)

DSmolken said:


> Since returned: https://premiersoundfactory.com/acoustic-bass-premier-g/
> 
> As for slap, it's really more of a big band thing, and not a small combo thing. Swing, not bebop.


Excellent - is this still held in high regard?


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## hag01 (Sep 10, 2021)

Hey, I thought about it, maybe what I hear on recordings and think it is slap, is not really slap.
I just hear those clicks played by the bassist, and maybe mistakenly think that it is slaps.

Here for example, maybe you can help me:


Whenever the bassist in the video stops the strings and you hear this pronounced click, what technique does he use, if not slapping?


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## kgdrum (Sep 10, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> Excellent - is this still held in high regard?


iirc the developers website got hacked,they lost the content and it took a couple of years for them to re-release the library.
I don’t have it but I seem to remember people saying the newer release doesn’t sound as good as the original.
Again I don’t have this so I’m just retelling what I recall according to my hazy memory.


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## Zanshin (Sep 10, 2021)

hag01 said:


> Hey, I thought about it, maybe what I hear on recordings and think it is slap, is not really slap.
> I just hear those clicks played by the bassist, and maybe mistakenly think that it is slaps.
> 
> Here for example, maybe you can help me:
> ...



Like I mentioned above.. vsl calls it hard stop. Here’s the walkthrough for the synchronized version:



48 secs in he demos it. Not Paul’s best walkthrough haha but should give you an idea of what the instrument can do. I assume the VI version has the same arts but I don’t own it.


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## chlady (Sep 10, 2021)

Heizenhaus said:


> Ample Sound ABU. Bolder Sounds Roots Upright Bass.


+1 for Ample sound ABU upright that's been my go to bass for a while.


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## DSmolken (Sep 10, 2021)

hag01 said:


> Hey, I thought about it, maybe what I hear on recordings and think it is slap, is not really slap.
> I just hear those clicks played by the bassist, and maybe mistakenly think that it is slaps.
> 
> Here for example, maybe you can help me:
> ...



I call those string muting noises. Hard stop works as well. Not sure of this has an "official" standard term in the jazz world.


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## re-peat (Sep 11, 2021)

hag01 said:


> Whenever the bassist in the video stops the strings and you hear this pronounced click, what technique does he use, if not slapping?



Those are not slaps, Hag. That’s either a string touching the neck (occurs most often with the two lower strings) or simply the sound of dampening a string (which, on an upright, will often produce a rather pronounced sound - and when the neck is close mic'ed, as it frequently is, you'll hear it even a lot more than you would in unmic'ed conditions). Nice video, by the way. Also illustrates within 5 seconds how ridiculously primitive and inadequate all bass libraries, even the serious ones, still are.

Talking about the serious ones, I can only include five or six in that category (everything that follows is strictly personal opinion of course): Ample Sound, Premier Sound Factory, VSL, Trilian, Fluffy and maybe the Bolder too. (The latter being capable of lot more than just the roots-y material it was mainly developed for.)

Everything else, to me, is wholly unsatisfactory. And some of it not even rises above what I would call the Sunday Afternoon Hobbyclub level.

Never liked the Straight Ahead. (And have said so since the earliest days of its release, and me buying it, in almost every jazz bass thread on VI-C, but I have never been able, despite posting several audio examples to illustrate my points with, to dissuade a single soul from purchasing it.)
I do like the concept of the library and the reasoning behind it, yes, but I just don’t like the sound of this bass. For starters, I think it is poorly recorded. And its strings sound dead and choked, I find. And a bit rubbery (in a non-appealing way) too.

Huge and undying respect for OrangeTree, but I never could get along with any of their guitars and certainly not with the upright bass either. Can’t tell for sure, but it always sounded to me as if OrangeTree trims its samples too close to the transient of the note. The result being that their stringed instruments don’t sound plucked (not in the way I like a plucked string to sound, anyway), they simply start abruptly. Way too abruptly, for my taste.
Not wild about the other aspects of the Pear bass either — always reminds me of a rompler-kind of upright bass patch to me — but it’s mostly that absence of a nice pluck that quickly made this library of hardly any use to me.

Stopped using the ArtVista too, I fear. Again, it’s from a company and a developer I like, but I allow goodwill and sympathy to compensate for only so much and that 'so much' is in this case nowhere near enough, I’m afraid, to like this bass library.
Don’t quite know how it happened, but this bass sounds very compressed to me, even if you don’t come anywhere near it with a compressor. It’s a characterstic that makes it quite a satisfying choice for certain stylings or genres, I suppose, but I don’t think it does well in anything jazz or jazz-related.




kgdrum said:


> (...) one of my favorites, Charlie Mingus (...)


Up until VI-C’s last but one GUI-change (during the latter days of the Frederick Russ reign), my avatar, now a blank square, depicted Charles Mingus. Of all the musicians/composers I could have picked, I chose him. Only to say how unspeakably important he and his work are to me.







_


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## Martin S (Sep 11, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Those are not slaps, Hag. That’s either a string touching the neck (occurs most often with the two lower strings) or simply the sound of dampening a string (which, on an upright, will often produce a rather pronounced sound - and when the neck is close mic'ed, as it frequently is, you'll hear it even a lot more than you would in unmic'ed conditions). Nice video, by the way. Also illustrates within 5 seconds how ridiculously primitive and inadequate all bass libraries, even the serious ones, still are.
> 
> _


Exactly. These slapping noises are unavoidable when playing upright jazz bass pizzicato. Even on my electric upright it’s very pronounced. It happens regardless of which type of strings the player is using (gut, steel-core, synthetic-core).

I agree about the current offerings of upright jazz bass libraries. They are not there, yet. Also remember, that the sound of the upright bass is extremely individual; very much depending on the player, the bass itself (size 4/4 - 3/4 - 7/8 - 1/2) and how it’s setup (fingerboard, sound post placement, string height/thickness/tension), how the player strikes the string (1 finger, 2 fingers, tip of finger or side of the finger - the more ‘meat’ of the finger that touches the string, the more of the fundamentals of the note is projected), etc.


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## sinkd (Sep 11, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> Good ones are: SA Samples, Fluffy Audio, Trillian. I also want to mention Modwheel’s The Lowdown v2.


+1 for The Lowdown. I also have SAS and just used it on a cue.


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## zeng (Sep 11, 2021)

chlady said:


> +1 for Ample sound ABU upright that's been my go to bass for a while.


Hello...how are you mixing this beast?


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## SergeD (Sep 11, 2021)

Since this thread covers upright bass, is somebody could comment about this one?





Upright Bass Sample Library VST AU AAX Kontakt Virtual Instrument plugin - Adam Monroe's Upright Bass


Adam Monroe's Upright Bass Sample Library Vst Plugin Audio Unit page providing audio clips, video, and buy options for Adam Monroe's Upright Bass




adammonroemusic.com





While for some it's maybe not a stellar library, to my ears it sounds raw and natural, more on the side of to much less rather than to much processing, after all this instrument is acoustic and this attribute must be kept without compromise.

Any opinion about this library?


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## muratkayi (Sep 11, 2021)

Hi
Chris hein bass is good. Comprehensive articulations and options for configuring them. Different strings sampled, gut metal and something else I don't remember. Has note repeat keys for walking bass, same note, octave and dead slap sound 

It's all pretty dated UX wise, but the result can sound pretty nice if you take your time to learn it (the VST I mean)


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## gzapper (Sep 11, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Those are not slaps, Hag. That’s either a string touching the neck (occurs most often with the two lower strings) or simply the sound of dampening a string (which, on an upright, will often produce a rather pronounced sound - and when the neck is close mic'ed, as it frequently is, you'll hear it even a lot more than you would in unmic'ed conditions). Nice video, by the way. Also illustrates within 5 seconds how ridiculously primitive and inadequate all bass libraries, even the serious ones, still are.
> 
> Talking about the serious ones, I can only include five or six in that category (everything that follows is strictly personal opinion of course): Ample Sound, Premier Sound Factory, VSL, Trilian, Fluffy and maybe the Bolder too. (The latter being capable of lot more than just the roots-y material it was mainly developed for.)
> 
> ...


Thanks, for that.

Mingus definitely had a sound, and the 60's jazz bass sound is different from modern ones in so many ways. My favourite bass player, who I hire with string quartets or jazz gigs up here in Canada, now tunes in 5ths from C and has such a great sound and feel. 

So far from the demos only the VSL library seems reasonable, though I expect its fussy to use and you'd need to really play it in so that the attacks aren't quantized but that the note speaks on the beat instead. Even so, like all sample libraries, it doesn't do nearly what a real player can do. But on a budget and a deadline I'd take out my credit card for the VSL one.

What's your opinion on that library, its the one you didn't mention?


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## Montisquirrel (Sep 11, 2021)

+1 for Ample Sound. 
They also have a Demo for you to try. Very nice GUI and some nice features.


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## Kuusniemi (Sep 11, 2021)

There's also Acoustic Samples' The Upright: https://www.acousticsamples.net/bass/the-upright Personally love the free Kontr in their Free Collection: https://www.acousticsamples.net/bundles/as-free-collection


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## wilifordmusic (Sep 11, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Those are not slaps, Hag. That’s either a string touching the neck (occurs most often with the two lower strings) or simply the sound of dampening a string (which, on an upright, will often produce a rather pronounced sound - and when the neck is close mic'ed, as it frequently is, you'll hear it even a lot more than you would in unmic'ed conditions). Nice video, by the way. Also illustrates within 5 seconds how ridiculously primitive and inadequate all bass libraries, even the serious ones, still are.
> 
> Talking about the serious ones, I can only include five or six in that category (everything that follows is strictly personal opinion of course): Ample Sound, Premier Sound Factory, VSL, Trilian, Fluffy and maybe the Bolder too. (The latter being capable of lot more than just the roots-y material it was mainly developed for.)
> 
> ...


First, fell in love with Charlie after hearing Better Git It in Your Soul. I love all of the incarnations of his orchestra. Gold star for Eric Dolphy.

Really llke your Ample Sound demo/experiment.
Questions,
1. Did you need to use a lot of key-switching or play it in one shot? If you did post performance key-switching was it quick or tedious/ time consuming?
2. Any post processing to the bass sound?
3. Is that their own player and/or any problems?

thanks for your time and straight talk.

Steve


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## re-peat (Sep 12, 2021)

Steve, thanks. I can’t really remember whether that AmpleBass excercise involved much key-switching and/or editing. I doubt it very much though, because I usually make such audio examples — the one for the Fluffy bass is another one — within a few hours of buying the library, mostly to express and share my first positive impressions and, inevitaby, before I’ve learned all there is to learn about the library.

What I am sure of however, is that nearly everything I post — bass demo-wise — is 90% played in one shot. I’ll obviously correct the odd wrong note or pitchbend mistake or something like that, but if I can’t get anything satisfying out of a bass library by improvising on the instrument in real time, my enthusiasm for the library quickly diminishes. As, for example, it happened with the VSL instrument. It’s a fine, high-quality library, no doubt about it, but having to manage key-switches at both ends of the keyboard, and also having to be very careful about the position of the modwheel at all times, those are things that really dampen my playing enjoyment.

I don’t remember anything about the processing of that Ample track. Probably a bit of EQ’ing — all bass libaries need that — and some room reverb, I suppose. One of the many nice things about the Ample is that most everything you need to make the instrument sit in a mix, is now built into the software: an able compressor, a fine EQ and wholly satisfying delay and reverb. Most people will probably turn to third-party plugins for this type of processing — I often do too — but it’s all there if you need it and, seriously, it’s not bad at all.

- - - - -

Here’s *a comparison of the Premier, the Ample and the VSL bass*, in various settings and appearing in the order named. (I did this rather quickly earlier this morning, so please allow for some roughness and unfinishedness.) Everytime I switch basses during this comparison, you’ll hear a finger cymbal, just to avoid all risk of confusion.

The one that makes the best impression on me here, is the Premier. Something about its pluck, its dynamics, its touch, its releases, and, well, its timbre, sound and presence that appeals to me more than the others. Personal thing, of course. But the Premier is the only one I can come close to believing. (I still don’t believe it completely, far from it, but considering what it is — a sample-based attempt at simulation —, I can believe it enough to be pleased with it and be able to work with it.)
And the Premier also reigns supreme (by some distance, if you ask me) when it comes to doing double-stops. (Check the closing section of the comparison.) Unique among sampled basses, the Premier can actually make double- or even triple-stops sound beautiful and expressive. (The Ample is decent in this regard, in my opinion, and the VSL, well, … no, thank you.)

Another thing I don’t like about the VSL is that its pluck has a sort of knocking quality (cleary audible in the first section of the comparison), and it also is severely lacking in dynamic colour, I find (unlike the Premier) which gives its performances often a somewhat aloof, unengaged, sterile character. On the plus side, it’s got a good, quite unique tone (one that, like Larry Seyer’s sampled bass, often reminds me a bit of the sound of Eddie Gomez), it’s a pretty good walker too (thankfully, those ‘knocking’ plucks get masked when you walk alongside drums) and if you master all its available articulations and included FX, you really have a powerful instrument in your hands.

But it’s no Premier. The bass that, in my view, comes closest to the Premier is the Fluffy. Much better than its price may make you think it is.

Here’s *a little thing done with the Bolder*, just to illustrate, what I said earlier, that it’s capable of a lot more than strictly roots-y stuff. (It's again one of those which I did soon, perhaps too soon, after buying the library.)

And below are a few more comparisons. These are all very old audio examples and their sound leaves rather a lot to be desired — was what I was thinking when I listened back to them, for the first time in quite a long time, prior to posting —, but they should give a fairly good idea about how the showcased instruments compare and what their individual strengths and weaknesses are.

- *Side-by-side / Premier vs Straight Ahead*
- *Side-by-side / ArtVista vs Premier*
- *Walking Premier*
- *Walking Straight Ahead*

_


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## kgdrum (Sep 12, 2021)

@re-peat

If you don’t mind me asking are the examples of the Premier that you’re using the original version or is it the newer iteration after the site was hacked? I’m asking because many users say the new version doesn’t sound as good as the original.
I don’t have either one and I was interested in the Premier before the site was hacked and I’ve been reluctant to buy this newer release with all of the reports by users stating the newer version is different than the original.
As a Premier G enthusiast have you compared the two different Premier G releases and do you come to the same conclusion that other users have made about the quality inferiority of the later release?


Thanks


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## re-peat (Sep 12, 2021)

My examples are all done with the original version of the Premier, kg. I never upgraded because, in a very uncharacteristic moment of dagobertduckness, I felt I had to pay too much for the new version. I don't know how Premier arrived at their upgrade prices for long-time users — there must be some reason to it, but I can't spot it —, but the fact of the matter is that, adding to what I already payed for the original library (and its v1.2 update) I would have payed more twice what a new customer has to pay for the Premier bass in its current version. Sorry, but no. It's the same with the Premier piano. Didn't upgrade that one either for the same reason.

The original does everything I expect it to do anyway. Haven't heard anything from the new one that makes me feel I have to have it. And you're right, there appears to be some dissatisfaction among users about the new one. The newly implemented legato, for example, seems to be only so-and-so.
I'm afraid I can't say anything about that though. Hopefully someone who can compare both the old and the new versions, will chime in.

One other thing: my Premier patches are heavily edited versions of the default patches. _Heavily_ edited. Increased dynamics, ADSR modulated by velocity, very different release-sample response, slightly increased randomness of certain parameters, ...

_


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## kgdrum (Sep 12, 2021)

Thanks 👍 @re-peat


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## Dietz (Sep 12, 2021)

-> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Music ... #9: Duke Ellington's "In A Sentimental Mood" played by Christof Unterberger - one of my all-time favorite VSL demos.


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## wilifordmusic (Sep 12, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Steve, thanks. I can’t really remember whether that AmpleBass excercise involved much key-switching and/or editing. I doubt it very much though, because I usually make such audio examples — the one for the Fluffy bass is another one — within a few hours of buying the library, mostly to express and share my first positive impressions and, inevitaby, before I’ve learned all there is to learn about the library.
> 
> What I am sure of however, is that nearly everything I post — bass demo-wise — is 90% played in one shot. I’ll obviously correct the odd wrong note or pitchbend mistake or something like that, but if I can’t get anything satisfying out of a bass library by improvising on the instrument in real time, my enthusiasm for the library quickly diminishes. As, for example, it happened with the VSL instrument. It’s a fine, high-quality library, no doubt about it, but having to manage key-switches at both ends of the keyboard, and also having to be very careful about the position of the modwheel at all times, those are things that really dampen my playing enjoyment.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for taking the time to do this and then explain your thought process.

Steve


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## Zoot_Rollo (Sep 12, 2021)

re-peat said:


> Another thing I don’t like about the VSL is that its pluck has a sort of knocking quality (cleary audible in the first section of the comparison), and it also is severely lacking in dynamic colour, I find (unlike the Premier) which gives its performances often a somewhat aloof, unengaged, sterile character. On the plus side, it’s got a good, quite unique tone (one that, like Larry Seyer’s sampled bass, often reminds me a bit of the sound of Eddie Gomez),


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## Zanshin (Sep 21, 2021)

The aforementioned Toontrack offering is out:

 https://www.toontrack.com/product/upright-ebx/

I'm going to pick this up I think, I haven't had a chance to listen to the demos on my studio monitors but initial impressions are 'well done', it is Toontrack after all.


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## davinwv (Sep 21, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> The aforementioned Toontrack offering is out:
> 
> https://www.toontrack.com/product/upright-ebx/
> 
> I'm going to pick this up I think, I haven't had a chance to listen to the demos on my studio monitors but initial impressions are 'well done', it is Toontrack after all.



It sounds pretty great - and very versatile!


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## gzapper (Sep 21, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> The aforementioned Toontrack offering is out:
> 
> https://www.toontrack.com/product/upright-ebx/
> 
> I'm going to pick this up I think, I haven't had a chance to listen to the demos on my studio monitors but initial impressions are 'well done', it is Toontrack after all.


It looks pretty useful, though the bass they chose to sample is a bit tubby. Its definitely a toontrack product, geared towards songwriters, but that may be useful. Slides are pitch bend, vibrato is after the fact, both of which are slightly less natural but way more flexible. Definitely worth checking out.


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Sep 21, 2021)

I was waiting for the "upright-ebx", but from what I heard in the Toontrack videos, I'm a bit disappointed. 

There's no slap articulations and the sound is nothing special IMO; I don't think it sounds any better than UJAM Mellow, which I already have. This makes me look closer towards the BolderSounds "Roots Bass", which has substantially more articulations and costs the same.

Having said that, I still might buy Toontrack's upright as part of the ebx "value pack" because of the ebx ecosystem.


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## NekujaK (Sep 21, 2021)

I own several of the upright bass libraries mentioned in this thread, and they all sound quite different, which is to be expected. Even though the upright bass is an acoustic instrument with no dedicated tone shaping controls (as opposed to an electric bass), the sound of an acoustic bass can vary greatly depending on how it's played, how it's amped/recorded, and on the stylistic intent of the player.

I've worked with a handful of acoustic bass players, mixing projects they played on - from traditional jazz to pop, folk, and bluegrass - and each bass player was very particular about their sound, sometimes going so far as to tell me exactly how to set the EQ curve in the mix.

The sonic spectrum ranges from that smooth low soft boom that only an acoustic bass is capable of, to a resonant high-mid "quack", and everything in between. It's more than just EQ and compression that gets you those sounds, the player him/herself is integral.

Given this wide spectrum of sound, it's not surprising there isn't an all-encompassing upright bass library to rule them all. I think to adequately represent the upright bass, multiple libraries are required - at least given today's offerings.


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## NekujaK (Sep 21, 2021)

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that the oft-ignored Kontakt Factory Library contains two upright bass patches that are actually quite good and offer decent tone-shaping versatility: Jazz Upright and Upright Bass. The latter patch provides that aggressive slappy string noise sound.


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## Zanshin (Sep 21, 2021)

NekujaK said:


> Also, I think it's worth mentioning that the oft-ignored Kontakt Factory Library contains two upright bass patches that are actually quite good and offer decent tone-shaping versatility: Jazz Upright and Upright Bass. The latter patch provides that aggressive slappy string noise sound.



I seem to remember installing the Kontakt library just to try those and was disappointed. Single dynamic maybe?



NekujaK said:


> Given this wide spectrum of sound, it's not surprising there isn't an all-encompassing upright bass library to rule them all. I think to adequately represent the upright bass, multiple libraries are required - at least given today's offerings.


I think you are right. Which is why I kind of want all the libraries despite my wallet lol. I will pick up the EBX one.

The Bolder Sounds bass sounds a little bit clickety clack caricature, there is one demo where it is more subdued and I suppose it can be EQ'd.

Acoustic Bass Premier G is more of a mystery. It's not the same bass that Re-peat demo'd for us, and the samples on the site are all dressed...


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## ScrltPumpernickel (Sep 21, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> ...
> 
> The Bolder Sounds bass sounds a little bit clickety clack caricature, there is one demo where it is more subdued and I suppose it can be EQ'd.
> 
> ...


Did you hear the snippet that *re-peat *posted earlier in this thread with Roots Bass:





Jazz upright bass


Excellent - is this still held in high regard? iirc the developers website got hacked,they lost the content and it took a couple of years for them to re-release the library. I don’t have it but I seem to remember people saying the newer release doesn’t sound as good as the original. Again I...




vi-control.net





It didn't sound bad to me at all, although I admit, a bit on the "clacky" side.

P.S. The file is no longer available, but I hope *re-peat *can re-upload it (I also saved a copy).


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## Zanshin (Sep 21, 2021)

I did, yeah and I thought it sounded pretty good. The product page also mentions a mic balance control so I assume that would go toward alleviating that too.


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## Zanshin (Sep 21, 2021)

Edit: Removed to protect the innocent


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## davinwv (Sep 21, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Quick and dirty test...
> 
> I had been playing around with setting up the synchron-ized VSL Upright last week, so I loaded the file up and threw the EZ Bass Upright in and very quickly attempted to match up EQ and compression (too forward, in your face, and trashy? But that's me not the samples sorry lol). I committed the cardinal sin and copied the midi over no adjustments between the two.
> 
> ...



It is tough to make a comparison given that you played the MIDI in using the VSL.


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## NekujaK (Sep 21, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> I seem to remember installing the Kontakt library just to try those and was disappointed. Single dynamic maybe?


You're probably right. They're decent basses for basic root-5 type playing, but for more expressive needs it's best to look elsewhere. I'm definitely grabbing the Upright EBX!


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## Zanshin (Sep 21, 2021)

davinwv said:


> It is tough to make a comparison given that you played the MIDI in using the VSL.


Yeah if they are not useful I should probably just remove them.


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## Zanshin (Sep 21, 2021)

NekujaK said:


> You're probably right. They're decent basses for basic root-5 type playing, but for more expressive needs it's best to look elsewhere. I'm definitely grabbing the Upright EBX!


Yeah I'm pretty happy with it so far, just taking a spin through the presets and it feels to have a nice range of tone.


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## FireGS (Sep 22, 2021)

I thought the EBX sounds pretty good -- but I don't think it's any better than Ample's.


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## Jkist (Sep 22, 2021)

FireGS said:


> I thought the EBX sounds pretty good -- but I don't think it's any better than Ample's.


Thats my debate. Which is more capable? Ample usually covers an insane amount of articulations and details, and their app has so much functionality. Its a tough opponent to beat. I've never owned any of the EZ Bass stuff, but this offering is tempting.


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## FireGS (Sep 22, 2021)

Jkist said:


> Thats my debate. Which is more capable? Ample usually covers an insane amount of articulations and details, and their app has so much functionality. Its a tough opponent to beat. I've never owned any of the EZ Bass stuff, but this offering is tempting.


Could always get both -- EBX is really affordable. Then you can use EBX > Ample. EBX for the MIDI packs (if that's your thing) with MIDI thru into Ample.


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## Zanshin (Sep 22, 2021)

You can demo EZ Bass itself to see if the app fits for you. It's quick to say drop in a chord progression, have it generate a bass line and then edit it to your liking. The editor in the app is nice because you can click on a note and change the articulation, and it tracks what basses have what articulations. It feels good to use like SD3 feels good IMO.

Anyway, I agree, the Ample is just as good sounding.


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## FireGS (Sep 22, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> You can demo EZ Bass itself to see if the app fits for you. It's quick to say drop in a chord progression, have it generate a bass line and then edit it to your liking. The editor in the app is nice because you can click on a note and change the articulation, and it tracks what basses have what articulations. It feels good to use like SD3 feels good IMO.
> 
> Anyway, I agree, the Ample is just as good sounding.


Only thing I wish it had was more of a slap if needed for country style.

I want an Ample gutbucket bass.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Oct 7, 2021)

this just went on sale:









Classica Double Bass - XPERIMENTA Project


Classica|Double Bassfor Kontakt Full 6.4.2 or higher 59,99€ --,--€ AUTUMN SALE - FEW HOUR LEFT BLACK FRID SALEClassica Double Bass, is a ready-to-go Double Bass library with 2 legato and three microphone positions. We recorded an italian handcrafted 4/4 Double Bass, equipped with Pirastro...




www.xperimentaproject.com





not sure about its jazz application, but from the vid, the pizz sounds pretty good.


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## gzapper (Oct 7, 2021)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> this just went on sale:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought it a while back, I should go take a look at it again. But so far I mostly like it for arco and am not sure its nicer or more musical in usage than the Embertone bass I mostly use.


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## Blueserman (Jan 10, 2022)

I really like the usability of Ample Upright (number of articulations, ease of use, noises, all 4 strings sampled (unlike e. g. Trilian, EZ Bass, etc. where the same note is only sampled on one string).

The one thing that really bugs me is that the E string sounds very dead and quiet compared to the other strings.

Am I the only one who noticed this? Or is there a work around?
I tried different blending of the mics, but the problem remained.

If the E string sounded as good as the other 3 strings, this would maybe be the only upright I needed.


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## re-peat (Jan 12, 2022)

Blueserman said:


> Am I the only one who noticed this?



I’ve also always felt that the E-string sounds a little bit weaker than the 3 others, yes. But the difference seems more pronounced in some presets than in others. (In the “Bags Groove” preset, for example, which is the one I often start from, I find the instrument fairly well balanced.) And it’s certainly not something you’d notice much when the bass is used in a full arrangement or mix anyway.

There’s little you can do about what you hear as ‘deadness’, but you can change the gain of E-string (or any of the strings) separately if you go in the ‘Sample Editor’, select all the entries that have the number ‘4’ in the ‘String’-column — those are all the E-string samples — and raise their Gain (right-most column) a bit.

_


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## John Longley (Apr 22, 2022)

Can anybody that owns both the Ample Sound and the VSL Synchronized Upright comment on pros and cons?


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## AceAudioHQ (Apr 23, 2022)

Modo bass 2 will have an upright bass also, but nobody really knows if it’s any good since they havent released any decent videos about it


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## applegrovebard (Apr 23, 2022)

A new upright jazz bass from Fluffy Audio, currently on sale for 59 euros:


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## Zanshin (Apr 23, 2022)

John Longley said:


> Can anybody that owns both the Ample Sound and the VSL Synchronized Upright comment on pros and cons?


My unorganized thoughts as I wake and drink coffee:

I have the Synchron-ized. I demo'd the Ample Sound one and it's very good too (and on my list to buy). Different characters.

I own the Toontrack EZB one too, and it's also very good. Probably the most mix ready one I've heard. I use this one the most - probably because it's fun to just drop in some chord midi and have it generate a pretty good sounding bass line for you. You can demo this one too I think?

Are you familiar with the VSL VI Player? If so the VI Upright Bass can be bought for only € 44 by itself, which is a great deal. The VI Player is not super friendly for new users though, and the VI bass doesn't have any reverb environment setup so you'd have to figure out that yourself. VI Jazz Drums are also great btw!

The Synchron-ized Plucked Instrument version has the easier to use Synchron Player and IRs ( and presets like close, distance, etc). But you are paying for the three instruments. The concert guitar is fantastic too though so worth it IMO.


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## chopin4525 (Apr 23, 2022)

Yep, I was noticing this the other day, if I want only the synchronized upright whose sound I love and would eventually add to my collection sooner or later, wtf should I have to buy two other instruments I have zero use for? At least put something I could actually use for a trio not two other random instruments just because.


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## Martin S (Apr 23, 2022)

chopin4525 said:


> Yep, I was noticing this the other day, if I want only the synchronized upright whose sound I love and would eventually add to my collection sooner or later, wtf should I have to buy two other instruments I have zero use for? At least put something I could actually use for a trio not two other random instruments just because.



That VSL library is called ‘Plucked Instremt_S__‘ - _not ‘Jazz Double Bass’. The clue is in the name…

So Jazz double bass and nylon string guitar is unsuitable together, as per your reasoning.. ? - I very much beg to differ:


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## chopin4525 (Apr 23, 2022)

Actually it gets even better than that since you have an astonishing, mind blowing, one of a kind overdriven guitar as well. It brings back to the memory that time when Ray Brown, Paco de Lucia and Bon Jovi jammed together for the entire night... Now that was indeed memorable!


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## John Longley (Apr 23, 2022)

AceAudioHQ said:


> Modo bass 2 will have an upright bass also, but nobody really knows if it’s any good since they havent released any decent videos about it


The fact they aren’t featuring it in the demos tells me what I need to know. I’m happy to be wrong.


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## John Longley (Apr 27, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> My unorganized thoughts as I wake and drink coffee:
> 
> I have the Synchron-ized. I demo'd the Ample Sound one and it's very good too (and on my list to buy). Different characters.
> 
> ...


Any idea how many dynamic layers the VSL synchronized instrument has? I am demoing the ample and like it, but the VSL has more articulations but no info about dynamics in the online manual.


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## Zanshin (Apr 27, 2022)

John Longley said:


> Any idea how many dynamic layers the VSL synchronized instrument has? I am demoing the ample and like it, but the VSL has more articulations but no info about dynamics in the online manual.


I assume the Synchron-ized version has the same counts as the VI version here:


https://eu.vsl.co.at/?FileID=958


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## John Longley (Apr 27, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I assume the Synchron-ized version has the same counts as the VI version here:
> 
> 
> https://eu.vsl.co.at/?FileID=958


Thanks, looks like 2-4 depending on the art. Just stating for anybody that reads this later.


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## John Longley (Apr 27, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I assume the Synchron-ized version has the same counts as the VI version here:
> 
> 
> https://eu.vsl.co.at/?FileID=958


@Ben can you confirm that the synchronized Upright Bass has the same number of dynamic layers as the VI? If different, how so?


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## Trash Panda (Apr 27, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I assume the Synchron-ized version has the same counts as the VI version here:
> 
> 
> https://eu.vsl.co.at/?FileID=958


Can it do Tank? 🙂


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## Zanshin (Apr 27, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Can it do Tank? 🙂


I'm not sure there's a bass out there that has the proper Tank! clank

Edit: I don't think that first one rendered right, here it is again
View attachment tbas rerender.mp3

This is with staccato art instead of the stopped long
View attachment tbas stac.mp3


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## FireGS (Apr 27, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I'm not sure there's a bass out there that has the proper Tank! clank


REALLY? I'd think the EZB slapped upright would do the trick, no?

EDIT nvm, i was thinking of modo bass 2 -- forget meeeee its super late.


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## Zanshin (Apr 27, 2022)

FireGS said:


> REALLY? I'd think the EZB slapped upright would do the trick, no?
> 
> EDIT nvm, i was thinking of modo bass 2 -- forget meeeee its super late.


I don't modo


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## Trash Panda (Apr 27, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I'm not sure there's a bass out there that has the proper Tank! clank
> 
> Edit: I don't think that first one rendered right, here it is again
> View attachment tbas rerender.mp3
> ...


Fair enough! Surprisingly, the Kontakt Factory Library Upright Bass seems to get closest from what I've tried so far (KFL Upright/Jazz basses, AmpleSound Upright, Premiere Sound Factory Acoustic Bass).


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## Zanshin (Apr 27, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Fair enough! Surprisingly, the Kontakt Factory Library Upright Bass seems to get closest from what I've tried so far (KFL Upright/Jazz basses, AmpleSound Upright, Premiere Sound Factory Acoustic Bass).


I wonder if kontakt factory one is VSL, I don't have the factory library installed. Do you have an example?


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## Trash Panda (Apr 27, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I wonder if kontakt factory one is VSL, I don't have the factory library installed. Do you have an example?


Here's a comparison between them. I love the gnarly growl on the Jazz Upright.

KFL Upright:
View attachment Tank Bass Test (KFLUB).mp3


KFL Jazz Upright:
View attachment Tank Bass Test (KFLJUB).mp3


Premier Sound Factory Acoustic Bass:
View attachment Tank Bass Test (PAG).mp3


Ample Sound Upright Bass:
View attachment Tank Bass Test (ABU).mp3


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## Zanshin (Apr 27, 2022)

Yeah the KFL Jazz is nice


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## Ben (Apr 28, 2022)

John Longley said:


> @Ben can you confirm that the synchronized Upright Bass has the same number of dynamic layers as the VI? If different, how so?


Yes, same number of velocity layers.


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## AceAudioHQ (Apr 28, 2022)

I still use orange tree samples Corebass pear for everything


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## Rilla (Jul 15, 2022)

One thing I appreciate about the Spectrasonics Trilian is that the direct signals sound realistic. On some of the other bass libraries (Ample Sound/Straight Ahead) when you turn the mic signals down and listen to the direct it sounds like utter garbage. Like, no effort put into it. And I understand because the the DI is just there as a support to the dominant mic signal, but for those of us that actually WANT that 70's/early 80's direct sound a la Ron Carter & Buster Williams, there are virtually no options I'm aware of other than Trilian.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 22, 2022)

i just brushed off my VSL Upright (VI Pro).

i had forgotten how amazing the art selections are.

this and Lowdown V2 have me covered.


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## ag75 (Nov 23, 2022)

CGR said:


> +1. Also, I've read good things about this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


+1 Acoustic Bass Premier G. GREAT sound.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 23, 2022)

ag75 said:


> +1 Acoustic Bass Premier G. GREAT sound.


just when i thought i was done - the year of the upright it seems.

gonna grab this one too.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 23, 2022)

Aldunate said:


> I've got great results with UJAM Mellow


this one is very cool

30 day demo too

Best Service: $ 55.29



odd timbre - sounds like the Residents playing upright.


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## Malaryjoe (Nov 23, 2022)

If you’ve got Komplete sitting around gathering digital dust, the upright in Cuba sounds pretty good. Really present and surprisingly hefty. I’ve used it in tracks where the EBX upright was too mushy.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 23, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> The aforementioned Toontrack offering is out:
> 
> https://www.toontrack.com/product/upright-ebx/
> 
> I'm going to pick this up I think, I haven't had a chance to listen to the demos on my studio monitors but initial impressions are 'well done', it is Toontrack after all.


if EZBass goes on sale, a consideration.


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## Windbag (Nov 23, 2022)

Zoot_Rollo said:


> if EZBass goes on sale, a consideration.


Damn, that upright expansion sounds about as good I've heard from samples....wish it were standalone as I and my five string hanging on the wall don't have much use for the rest of the electrics.


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 23, 2022)

Windbag said:


> Damn, that upright expansion sounds about as good I've heard from samples....wish it were standalone as I and my five string hanging on the wall don't have much use for the rest of the electrics.


same here

the EZBass workflow is amazing. the extreme flexibility may beat out Premier - for me.

already an SD3 fan.

two more days of new deals this week, we shall see.


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