# Voxos vs. Requiem vs. Other Choral Libraries. Advice Needed...



## adg21 (Sep 17, 2010)

I know nothing about choir libraries but I'm thinking of investing in one.

As I understand it the 'voxos' and 'requiem' are a new generation of choir libraries. But I have no experience these or with the older libraries.

I'm looking for a connoisseur of choral libraries on this forum, or at least someone who has owned a couple and might be able to help me to make an informed decision?

What are your thoughts on these choral libraries? Both in quality and userbility

Thanks in advance for any recommendations.


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## Frederick Russ (Sep 17, 2010)

Depends on the kind of choral music you want to write. Others may disagree, but in my experience at least applied to mock-ups specifically, the more libraries the merrier. The reason? Each developer has a specific creative vision. Like string libraries, if you blend the strengths of each, you can have a lovely synergy that overlaps and weaves together and can be very specific in bringing to life what you're hearing in your head. 

If its just to create mock-ups for the purpose of hiring live choir later then probably any one of them will do fine.


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 17, 2010)

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## adg21 (Sep 18, 2010)

Folmann @ Sat Sep 18 said:


> My offering will be subjective, since I created Requiem with a few friends. However I encourage you to check out our site and judge for yourself:
> 
> http://www.tonehammer.com/?page_id=4660
> 
> You won't find any other real legato choirs at the price range of $299 - and you most certainly won't find any that can sing as realistically and expressive.



awesome it's great to hear it straight from the horses mouth! $299 is great price, i'm currently trying to work out the differences between the light and pro versions. 

great music by the way. I really like the piece on your ethnic reel at 2:00


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## adg21 (Sep 18, 2010)

Also, you might have anwered this elsewhere on the forum but I'm wondering when the plucked piano is due to be released? It sounds fantastic


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## mikebarry (Sep 18, 2010)

I will chip in with my biased advice as a creator of Voxos.

Our legato sections is 19 GB alone. Coming with separate S,A,T,B + a full range boys choir - this allows you to maintain the pure tambre of each choir section over their full range and avoid harsh sounding crossfades over range jumps. It is absolutely perfect for this Elfman/Horner type melodic writing - you can see Mike P's legato demo on the website sounds very similar to this.

Ships with Kontakt player 4

Good luck with your decision.

www.cinesamples.com


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## stevenson-again (Sep 18, 2010)

if i be so bold:

i have requiem and love the sound.

i am interested in voxos and think it may be the most sensible UI for choirs imaginable.

IMO the 2 libs are foucssed differently. requiem's analogue would be symphobia (and we all know good THAT is), and voxos would be hollywood strings (and we all know good THAT is).

voxos will ultimately be more flexible, but requiem will be more immediate. requiem is more designed to use what is recorded for inspiration, whereas voxos will allow you to realize your pre-existing inspiration. requiem has pre-recorded sung words time-synched, but since you are mostly looking for ooo's and aahs, requiem has those and they sound absolutely the bomb.

i think you could mock-up the soloist in the donnie darko track with voxos but not with requiem.

i cannot stress enough how beautifully recorded requiem is. they somehow even managed to capture bad breath and a whiffy alto in the third row. if what you are mostly looking for is oos and aahs then you don't really need to go past requiem. BUT, if you want to do a bit more, it's philosophy might get in the way. voxos seems to me to be almost as sonically rewarding but gives you the ultimately flexibility with a very very clever UI.

all of this is just my own very very humble opinion.


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 18, 2010)

e.g., buy both!


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## David Story (Sep 18, 2010)

Frederick Russ @ Fri Sep 17 said:


> Like string libraries, if you blend the strengths of each, you can have a lovely synergy that overlaps and weaves together and can be very specific in bringing to life what you're hearing in your head.



That's a possible thread right there! What are the strengths of each library? What do they do well out of the box? 

Sometimes that's pretty easy to find, like the ART tool in LASS. It may not be so easy to find: I'm thinking of the 2 trumpet RR in EW Gold, or the prepared piano in SD2, or some of the effects in SISS. 

What patches or playing styles bring out the best of the programmers vision in Requiem?


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## wst3 (Sep 18, 2010)

ultimately I think most folks are not locked into any one specific style, and I think each of the current heavy-weights leans towards specific approaches - makes sense since both were developed by composers!

So the question really becomes where to start, and I really don't think there is a poor choice, though one might suit a particular project better than the other.

If you have no specific project then I guess you need to think about the sorts of projects where you might use it.

And don't forget, there is one more potential competitor waiting in the wings... I for one am a very content user of Bela D's Diva, Tenor, and Giovanni libraries, and as such am really curious to see what they bring out next.

I don't believe any one library will ever serve all purposes, but as I already have the above mentioned libraries - an no pressing need presently (wish that would change<G>) - it makes sense for me to be patient.

Besides, that gives me an opportunity to jump into a next-gen string library<G>...


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## gregjazz (Sep 18, 2010)

I had the privilege of being involved with developing VOXOS (I did the scripting). Ever since I started working on the project, I knew it would be an incredible library. And let me tell you, I can easily spend and entire afternoon just sitting at my MIDI keyboard and playing the patches.

The Mikes from Cinesamples flew me out to Seattle to help with the recording session, which was at Bastyr Chapel, a famous location for scoring films and trailers. You HAVE to look up pictures (there are a bunch photos on the Cinesamples forum), the place is incredible! Besides the amazing architecture and decor, the acoustics in Bastyr are gorgeous. And around 4:00 PM, when the beams of light shine through the stained glass windows... you just have to be there.

The singers in the choir were all top-notch musicians, with a lot of experience recording for the game/film industry. It was exciting listening to every note they sang, realizing that these would end up being samples in the library. They were able to instill so much emotion into every note recorded throughout the recording sessions, too.

The project took an incredible amount of work. For example, the VOXOS webpage states that the library has over 35,000 samples. Actually, the number of samples is closer to 45,000 when you count the number of zones in the main patches. And we had to set seamless loop points and start points for practically all of those samples! It was so much work, but the end product was absolutely worth it.

And then there's the scripting. There are over 15,000 lines of carefully optimized scripting in all the main patches, from the phrase builder to the polyphonic legato and the auto-divisi. Even elements that traditionally use Kontakt's built-in controls were scripted instead--for example, the multi-dimensional crossfade morphing, which incorporates logarithmic (equal-power) volume curves to insure that the morphing is as smooth as possible. I don't mean to brag, I just want to give you an idea of the attention to detail we put into VOXOS.

I'm really excited that you'll soon have the opportunity to play VOXOS yourselves. You're going to be very impressed.


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## RiffWraith (Sep 18, 2010)

I have Requiem and East West SC, as well as Bela D Media's Voices Of The Young, so I am quite experienced with VI choirs.

As with everything, those libs all have their strengths and weaknesses, and all take time and effort to get the most out of.

I am VERY happy with Requiem, and although I can not get into specifics, there are a number of industry people who I have played some of my cues for, who were overwhelmed with the choir sound I have acheived. You can check out my YouTube channel (below) to hear what Requiem is capable of; those tracks do have some East West SC, but they are about 85% Req, and "Of Gods And Kings" is 100% Req.

Good luck with your purchase!

Cheers.


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## eschroder (Sep 18, 2010)

Fair to say Req. sounds a bit more EPIC if you will?


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## wesbender (Sep 18, 2010)

I own Requiem, and comparing it to what I've seen/heard of Voxos, my opinion is such that Requiem has a more natural and even aggressive (if you want it to be) sound. I just love the overall tone of the library, and I think it sounds less like samples than what I've heard of Voxos thus far (that could change though once some more demos come out).

On the contrary, Voxos seems like a more flexible, user-friendly library, and the boys choir is a very nice touch. The SATB could be invaluable for some people, guess it just depends on your style of writing and what you need it for.

I think it would be cool for CS to release a light version of Voxos sometime in the future. Requiem Light + Voxos Light would be a killer combo for a very reasonable price.


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## eschroder (Sep 18, 2010)

Agreed!


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## mikebarry (Sep 18, 2010)

This week we got some love from Trevor Morris - who's score for "the pillars of the earth" is freaking brilliant (the book is killer too). It was my favorite show of the year so far. Check it out on netflix, you can't just watch one episode at a time - its so well done. 



> "I’ve had the pleasure of doing a lot of live choir recording on my work the past few years, and nothing has ever come as close to the feel, esthetic and gravitas of the real thing like VOXOS. This library is simply inspired in every way. It became an instant and permanent fixture in my composing palette, replacing all my other choir libraries. Bravo Cinesamples.”
> 
> 
> Trevor Morris, Emmy Award Winning Composer
> (Pillars of the Earth, The Tudors, The Hills Have Eyes 2)



He said he is already using it on his new projects.


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## Udo (Sep 18, 2010)

RiffWraith @ Sun Sep 19 said:


> ...... although I can not get into specifics, there are a number of industry people who I have played some of my cues for, who were overwhelmed with the choir sound I have achieved.


RiffWraith, I think that if you can't name the people and context, a statement like that should not be made. You're using it as an endorsement for a particular library. Just saying something like: "Listen to what I was able to create with xxxx ...." and a link to the demo would have been more appropriate.


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## RiffWraith (Sep 18, 2010)

Udo @ Sun Sep 19 said:


> RiffWraith, I think that if you can't name the people and context, a statement like that should not be made.



Completely disagree. Naming names is not a professional thing to do; I think everyone would agree. "Hey - I sent a demo to John Smith at Warner Bros., and he loved what I did!" is the wrong thing to do. Meantime, I see nothing wrong with saying that certain idustry people have commented on some of my tracks.



Udo @ Sun Sep 19 said:


> You're using it as an endorsement for a particular library.



You are making it sound like I sould not endorse a certain library. Why should I, or anyone for that matter, not do that?

Cheers.


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## c0mp0ser (Sep 18, 2010)

Folmann @ Sat Sep 18 said:


> But it doesn't matter how desperately we (developers) try to convince customers to purchase our products. I could namedrop doses of high-end composers (including Trevor Morris on Tudors) that are using Requiem, but at the end of the day its all in the ears of (you) the beholder.



Troels,

No one is namedropping. MB posted a statement from a satisfied user.
Quotes from other users have value, because, as you say, it doesn't matter what we (developers) have to say...

We're very proud of our library, and have worked very hard on it (as you have on yours I am sure) and just want to share what others are saying.

Best Wishes,
MP


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## Udo (Sep 18, 2010)

RiffWraith @ Sun Sep 19 said:


> Naming names is not a professional thing to do ...............
> 
> You are making it sound like I sould not endorse a certain library. Why should I, or anyone for that matter, not do that?


I agree that namedropping should be avoided. However, what you did is worse.

Of course you can endorse whatever you like, but you're USING nameless INDUSTRY people/experts/gurus, who are "overwhelmed with the choir sound", to EMPHASIZE AND BIAS your endorsement of the library.

If you do that, you should at least name those people and the context.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 19, 2010)

kb123 @ 19.9.2010 said:


> FWIW I think all the developers deserve to be congratulated and supported in equal measure and encouraged to enhance existing products and continue to make new innovations.



Exactly. There will be no shortage of satisfied users for both Cinesamples and Tonehammer guys, I'm pretty sure, since both products are topnotch, even disregarding the price differences. However, the usage of both "seemingly opposing" choir libraries is actually very different, as VOXOS provides you ultimately way more flexibility and better legato, while Requiem gives you that epic movie sound. I am absolutely sure that each serious composer should simply have both, and be done with it.

Oh, and congrats to both of you developers, because you all did amazing job. There's no need to fight over customers here, you'll all get your share, for sure! 

o-[][]-o


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## Peter Emanuel Roos (Sep 19, 2010)

Mmm, a very interesting topic with developers chiming in - isn't this great at V.I.? 

Let's get back to the original subject and not bicker about marketing stuff.

Like Peter Alexander said, if you can afford it, get both (or all) choir libraries. Mixing and matching is IMO always the best approach with samples.

My choir stuff is a bit outdated (SOV - still great!, Voice of the App. and the EWQLSO choir), so please download my Bricasti IR lib and donate! :D so that I can keep up with you big spenders!


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## Ashermusic (Sep 19, 2010)

RiffWraith @ Sun Sep 19 said:


> Point taken Udo, but -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nor do I. He has a right have a preference for a library and try to persuade others as long as he is not on their payroll and does not disclose that.

Further, there is also nothing wrong with name dropping by users or developers if it is true.


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## Frederick Russ (Sep 19, 2010)

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## juliansader (Sep 19, 2010)

It is a pity that this thread got a little acrimonious, since Frederick and Peter in their original answers touched on something very, very interesting (to me, at least), that I have not previously seen discussed on this forum, namely the combining of choir libraries.

EWQLSC has Wordbuilder but no legato (except for Play's legato script), while Requiem and Voxos have legato but no Wordbuilder. Perhaps, therefore, if one needs the choir to sing English lyrics (or any other non-Latin language) one can achieve choir nirvana by having EWQLSC and Requiem/Voxos sing at the same time, with Requiem/Voxos providing the legato transitions and EWQLSC providing the correctly pronounced syllables. Requiem/Voxos will probably either sing syllables that are closest to the Wordbuilder syllable, or fade in and out similar to the way that Wordbuilder's phonemes fade in and out.

Also, if EWQLSC/Requiem/Voxos all sing together, one can perhaps get smoother changes in dynamics.

Anyways, back to adg21's original question... If you only need nice-sounding choir Ahs, you can also consider the Vienna Choir (expensive) or Precisionsounds' Angelic Vocal Pads (cheap, and if combined with SIPS script might give nice legato effects, though I haven't tried that myself).

If this is a big decision for you, and if you can buy only one of the libraries, you would be well advised to carefully read the manuals of each of the libraries before making your decision. The manuals will give you extra details that will complement the information that you read on this forum.


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## rJames (Sep 19, 2010)

For being an acrimonious thread (not really that much), I agree with almost all of the comments. I think there is a very big difference in these libs. I wish they were one... And I'm not so sure that blending them will work well. Requiem has a great sound, not delicate. And with the chanted format, it is great for the gothic-y and strident steady march of syllables... Not great for a melody; I.òò   ç>—ò   ç>˜ò   ç>™ò   ç>šò   ç>›ò   ç>œò   ç>ò   ç>žò   ç>Ÿò   ç> ò   ç>¡ò   ç>¢ò   ç>£ò   ç>¤ò   ç>¥ò   ç>¦ò   ç>§ò   ç>¨ò   ç>©ò   ç>ªò   ç>«ò   ç>¬ò   ç>­ò   ç>®ò   ç>¯ò   ç>°ò   ç>±ò   ç>²ò   ç>³ò   ç>´ò   ç>µò   ç>¶ò   ç>·ò   ç>¸ò   ç>¹ò   ç>ºò   ç>»ò   ç>¼ò   ç>½ò   ç>¾ò   ç>¿ò   ç>Àò   ç>Áò   ç>Âò   ç>Ãò   ç>Äò   ç>Åò   ç>Æò   ç>Çò   ç>Èò   ç>Éò   ç>Êò   ç>Ëò   ç>Ìò   ç>Íò   ç>Îò   ç>Ïò   ç>Ðò   ç>Ñò   ç>Òò   ç>Óò   ç>Ôò   ç>Õò   ç>Öò   ç>×ò   ç>Øò   ç>Ùò   ç>Ú


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 20, 2010)

rJames @ Sun Sep 19 said:


> For being an acrimonious thread (not really that much), I agree with almost all of the comments. I think there is a very big difference in these libs. I wish they were one... And I'm not so sure that blending them will work well. Requiem has a great sound, not delicate. And with the chanted format, it is great for the gothic-y and strident steady march of syllables... Not great for a melody; I.e. A string of a variety of note lengths using syllables.
> 
> And even though I agree that it is not right quoting unnamed sources from the industry, I've had the same positive feedback with Requiem.
> 
> ...



Can you elabprate a bit on the meldoy thing? it sounds a bit like Requiem plays you, rather than you play Requiem. Say you wanted to do Carmina Burana or Battle of the Heroes (Star Wars) would that be harder with Requiem? I mean it has legato patches and multisamples, but not to the extent of Voxos?

What can Requiem do that Voxos can't and vice versa? 

One can listen to the demos as it has been suggested, but it's hard to know how much composing freedom there is just by listening. Only a known piece performed by both would give you an idea of the flexibility.


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## Markus S (Sep 20, 2010)

The Requiem library is really fantastic (and easy to use out of the box), and it is true that there is nothing like this on the market. With all the great products today, it becomes difficult to mark a difference, but here it really is a masterfully done library. It certainly has many faults and weaknesses, as all libraries have, but the sound is alive, it sounds like people actually "singing", and that is the most important thing, especially when getting into the vocal department.


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## Pedro Camacho (Sep 20, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Sat Sep 18 said:


> This is the question for me (it may not be your question): Does this library sound like a choir? Not the stuff you hear in trailers and other demos with voices, but like a CHOIR?



I agree at 110%.

Choirs are not trailer choirs, they are choirs.

To me still no library achieved what I am looking for, yet.


From what I tested:

*Voxos:*
Gets a natural legato feelling. Expressive melodies are wonderful and you can actually have the sections separated, which is really important. I REALLY love the pp, mp, mf dynamics from the choir.

90% of the music you will make will NOT need FFF or FF dynamics.

Expensive

*Requiem:*
Best staccatos/marcatos from all. Amazing traileresque sound!!
Legatos are nice but you don't get women and men voices separated (in the legatos), only full choir (like symphobia for strings). This can be horrible when you want to make a normal woman only passage, you always get high (tense) tenors and basses a bit below.

Non legato patches have women and men patches. Still you don't get the beauty of high pitch altos, which has nothing to do with sopranos singing the same notes.

Very cheap!


Symphonic Choirs:
Wordbuilder is simply fantastic, best thing ever, you can actually make your lyrics, nothing beats that. 
The sound is good but no legato. Staccatos are same level of quality as Voxos. 

Average price.

ATTENTION: Voxos has been judged by demos only.


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## Mike Connelly (Sep 20, 2010)

Voxos is supposed to ship in ten days. At this point it seems silly to make a decision now instead of waiting until both libraries are out and hearing user feedback about Voxos.


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## Udo (Sep 20, 2010)

*NOW THIS THE TYPE OF REVIEW/PERSPECTIVE/OPINION THAT IS USEFUL, rather than: "I played my cues for some Industry Heavyweights and they were overwhelmed with the choir sound I have achieved"......*



rJames @ Tue Sep 21 said:


> I've just looked up a performance of Oh Fortuna on You Tube. Requiem has the quality and force of the beginning of this piece. I mean, this is the grandaddy of trailer choirs isn't it? :D Somebody copied this piece and then somebody copied the copy and then another copy of the copy and here we are.
> 
> I don't think Voxos could do justice to the opening of this piece. But I DO NOT have it. So, I'd be speaking out my @@@ if I said one way or the other. But as soon as you get away from singing constant quarter notes in a certain range of tempos and try to sing some short notes in syncopation, you'll have to start working very hard with Requiem. Then we have the next section of soft staccato. Not a lot of dynamics in Requiem. But I think you could probably make it work.
> 
> ...


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## Peter Alexander (Sep 20, 2010)

> "I played my cues for some Industry Heavyweights and they were overwhelmed with the choir sound I have achieved".......hint, hint, hint, .....



With all due respect, Udo, I don't know what you do for a living. But when you're a composer here, you're running your own business. Jeff Hayat works very hard at that.

To list the names of who listened to his work is to list his sales contacts which took his time and money to develop. 

It was a "back door" endorsement, but it was a _positive_ "back door" endorsement and I appreciated it.

o-[][]-o


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## Jaap (Sep 20, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Mon Sep 20 said:


> > "I played my cues for some Industry Heavyweights and they were overwhelmed with the choir sound I have achieved".......hint, hint, hint, .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agree on this and certainly some members are a good part of the community and they don't win anything by hyping themselves to say "hey I played my music for a bigshot" while it isn't true. Certainly Jeff is not like and I trust his words that it was judged positive by some important people.

@Pedro:

Nice small comparisson you made there.

I am also in the market for both products since I currently only own SC at the moment (which I still like) and I love the sound of Requiem since I mainly looking something more "epic" sounding to add to symphonic choirs. Voxos so far sounds like the better one to really blend in depth with SC, but will await the launch and hear some custom demos etc first. Probably ending up buying both gems anyway :D

Anyhow, to both Tonehammer and Cinesamples a big gratz for supplying is with such great products o-[][]-o


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## RiffWraith (Sep 20, 2010)

Udo @ Tue Sep 21 said:


> *NOW THIS THE TYPE OF REVIEW/PERSPECTIVE/OPINION THAT IS USEFUL, rather than: "I played my cues for some Industry Heavyweights and they were overwhelmed with the choir sound I have achieved"......*



Dude - you are entitled to disagree with me, but what I said, and how I said it is_ not _wrong. 

Be a man, and let it go - please.

Cheers.


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 24, 2010)

rJames @ Mon Sep 20 said:


> Christian Marcussen @ Mon Sep 20 said:
> 
> 
> > Can you elabprate a bit on the meldoy thing? it sounds a bit like Requiem plays you, rather than you play Requiem. Say you wanted to do Carmina Burana or Battle of the Heroes (Star Wars) would that be harder with Requiem? I mean it has legato patches and multisamples, but not to the extent of Voxos?
> ...



Thanks for elaborating. All of a sudden this question has become far more real, and less academic. I just got contacted to do a score where I'll be needing a good choir. 

SOoooooo... If one were to mock up - say - "Hunt for Red October" - which to get? If I want to do a Russian like choir that starts moody, and gets epic, where I am in control of the melody. Which?


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## Sopranos (Sep 24, 2010)

RiffWraith @ Sat Sep 18 said:


> I have Requiem and East West SC, as well as Bela D Media's Voices Of The Young, so I am quite experienced with VI choirs.
> 
> As with everything, those libs all have their strengths and weaknesses, and all take time and effort to get the most out of.
> 
> ...



RiffWraith,

I am sold based on your youtube cues.... phenomenal sounding choirs (and EXCELLENT cues). I have a couple of questions before I pull the trigger if you wouldn't mind:

1. Are most of the chants (I'm assuming staccato?) in your videos from Requiem?

2. Are you using Requiem Light or Pro? I can only go for Light and was wondering if your videos are a good representation of Light or if they are a full Pro version.

3. What is the difference between Light and Pro? I would hate to hear a bunch of demos and come to find out that they were all done with Pro.

I am specifically interested in epic trailer shouts/chants and the like. Thanks for any advice or help!


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## Ed (Sep 24, 2010)

Sopranos @ Fri Sep 24 said:


> I am specifically interested in epic trailer shouts/chants and the like. Thanks for any advice or help!



Well you could check this out... 
http://edwardbradshawmusic.squarespace.com/audio-showreel/ (http://edwardbradshawmusic.squarespace. ... -showreel/)

If you listen to the first track labeled "Trailer Reel" - from 47 seconds to 1min16 is Requiem choirs. Its the far mics, just in case you think they sound kind of distant. It starts off with Marcatos and then the Staccs. Only loaded *two patches*, easy peasy.

In my opinion, Requiem is definitely awesome at that kind of stuff , no question about it. Then again I dont have experience with VOXOS so I can't _directly _compare. Its a pleasure to write choir parts now. With EW I was always faffing about with world builders and MASSIVE patches and it still never sounded as good.

edit: I own the full version of Requiem, but did this with the old version, if it makes any difference.


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## mikebarry (Sep 24, 2010)

Well its getting a repetitive in this discussion, so i will offer my last developer comment. 

I don't think you can get much more hunt for red october-y then the beginning of the voxos cue melody. You can check that out - I did that in 2 passes to get the octaves doubling - mega simple. Our phrasebuilder is built on simplicity. Hunt for red october - top 5 score for me by the way, amazing choral writing. Amazing movie, amazing book. 

Also the S,A,T,B legato makes a big difference vs SA TB - it is really fun and natural to play. I am sure you will be hearing more about our powerful legato once we actually ship and you can hear some A/B's that will intrigue you.


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## EvilDragon (Sep 24, 2010)

Folmann @ 24.9.2010 said:


> ask yourself which library is the most flexible,


VOXOS.



Folmann @ 24.9.2010 said:


> richest


Requiem.



Folmann @ 24.9.2010 said:


> and realistic sounding.


VOXOS tipping over on the winning side for me.


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## Ed (Sep 24, 2010)

Sopranos @ Fri Sep 24 said:


> Awesome! What choir package are you using at the beginning of that track (before 47 seconds)? For some reason that sounds brighter or more clear while the 00:47-1:16 sounds a bit muddier or muffled.
> 
> I guess that could just be the far mics you mentioned.



The part you're talking about is live choirs  and was mixed by Immediate Music and in general is a lot brighter than my mixes. Edit: Just so you know the rest of the choirs other than the Requiem and the live bit are EW.

I would say yes it is the far mics thats causing that muddier effect. I'm going to try using the medium mics next time. I cant remember if Folmann said it or not and I havent downloaded the new update yet, but it would be great if we had a super epic *pre mixed *version with* all 3 mic positions* combined. Project SAM used to do something like this with their brass and labelled it the "enhanced" set, that was cool. I know it would take lots more gigs to download, but totally worth it IMO.


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## RiffWraith (Sep 24, 2010)

Howdy.



Sopranos @ Sat Sep 25 said:


> RiffWraith,
> 
> I am sold based on your youtube cues.... phenomenal sounding choirs (and EXCELLENT cues). I have a couple of questions before I pull the trigger if you wouldn't mind:
> 
> ...



1. Not most - all. A few of the legato lines are EW, but the chants are all Req.

2. Pro

3. Not sure - you will have to check the THammer site to see if there is a comparison chart of sorts.

As for your "if your videos are a good representation of Light" inquiry - not sure, as I have not played with light. I will have to defer to Troels and/or Mike P. on that one.

Cheers.


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## Lex (Sep 24, 2010)

My 2 cents....get both, you really want both.

I cant go in to details, for me both libraries are a masterpiece, but they couldn't be more different from each other.

It's all there in the demos, descriptions and specs.


aLex


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## Frederick Russ (Sep 24, 2010)

Lex @ Fri Sep 24 said:


> My 2 cents....get both, you really want both.
> 
> I cant go in to details, for me both libraries are a masterpiece, but they couldn't be more different from each other.
> 
> ...



Exactly! Eloquently put - it's precisely the way I feel about both.


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 28, 2010)

I am actually leaning towards getting Requiem as it is an impressive price, and I'm considering getting a few other TH things. 



Animus @ Mon Sep 27 said:


> I can say without a doubt, get Requiem Light first. Voxos looks cool and is more flexible but seems to be your typical standard samplefare. Requiem is the "sound" right out of the box, and the polysustains are out of this world. Of course you can add Voxos later.



Thing is I would _never_ buy VOXOS for the full price. So it's now or never 

I'm not quite convinced that the polysustains will work for me, but who knows. The Staccato and Marcato articulations - wow... I do however find it really unfortunate (for my use) that the dynamics are limited. Makes it hard to do something like Hunt for Red October, which I am...

How are the dynamics on the other core patches?


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 28, 2010)

FFS! LOL... 4 products, and $4 short of a 20% discount. Are the prices designed that way? :D


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## futur2 (Sep 28, 2010)

maybe you could donate the $4 and get your discount :wink:


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 28, 2010)

I can buy their freebie for $4 perhaps? :D


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## Ashermusic (Sep 28, 2010)

Forgive me in advance please for a little ruminating that may only be tangential. 

These 2 libraries both sound great and have a lot of creative possibilities. Sonically, fromn the demos I prefer Voxos but it is subjective.

However, if a potential user is a professional, he/she needs to ask himself/herself which kind of score/project will purchasing a new library help them achieve the sound they are looking for. Sometimes a technically inferior one will actually do so better than a superior one. So the answer could be both, one or the other, or neither.

If one is a hobbyist, then the standards are reduced to "Do I like it?" and "Can I afford it?"

But I sometimes get the feeling that there are a lot of folks here struggling to buy libraries that they cannot really afford to help them achieve a sound for a type of project that they are not getting hired for and will not likely get hired for in the mistaken belief that if they only have the right combo of libraries they perhaps will.

Perhaps this is rally another thread I should start or maybe even a new column for FIlm Music Magazine.


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## NYC Composer (Sep 28, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Tue Sep 28 said:


> Forgive me in advance please for a little ruminating that may only be tangential.
> 
> These 2 libraries both sound great and have a lot of creative possibilities. Sonically, fromn the demos I prefer Voxos but it is subjective.
> 
> ...



This is a really good point, and a great article subject, Jay. However, it's even more complex than it appears.

Besides the hobbyist and professional categories, there are various gradations, for example, composers attempting to start a career. How does he/she do that without competitive demos? Competitive demos require investment in top level libraries. I think Requiem Lite will sell a lot of copies to these folks, also to composers who are working, but moderately. Don't get me wrong, from the demos it sounds like a fine library and it's obviously a great deal. Voxos sounds awesome as well and more comprehensive to me in some areas. It's hard to go wrong with either of these offerings, but price is going to matter more and more as budgets shrink and competition increases.

The 'get both' scenario is obviously the ideal way to go and very diplomatic, but sadly not an option for many.


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## wst3 (Sep 28, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Tue Sep 28 said:


> Forgive me in advance please for a little ruminating that may only be tangential.
> <snip>
> Perhaps this is rally another thread I should start or maybe even a new column for FIlm Music Magazine.



Good post, good idea for an article!

And here's another article topic for you...

maybe I'm just too old, but once upon a time it was possible to pitch a composition, in almost any arena, based solely on a minimal rendition, piano, guitar and vocal, even purely electronic (when electronic meant ARP 2600 or mini-Moog) or whatever.

That ship has sailed, long ago now! One needs to create the most polished presentation one can afford to go chasing after opportunities. Have the people that listen become jaded, or lazy, or is the very presence of really polished demos just making it tougher for everyone else?

On a parallel path - how does one learn to create a soundtrack for a game or a trailer or some other fairly well defined (by the industry and the public it seems) genre without actually doing it?

In both cases access to mid-level or better libraries is pretty much a requirement.

I got tremendous mileage from GPO - I even used it to mock up the entire score for one project - it was later played by real live people, so the mock-up was only ever heard by me and the players, but it was helpful, I think. More to the point, it gave me the chance to try out ideas and get a rough mental image of what they might sound like.

I eventually upgraded to KH Diamond, still in the process of figuring out how to get the best results with it in fact, and it certainly made a difference for me. I had access to more articulations, and (subjectively) better sounding instruments. I still use the Presonus Orchestral library for some effects as well.

Would I like LASS and HS and HWWW and CS II and so on and so forth, not to mention Requiem and Voxos? Sure! Can I justify the purchases? Not really... I need to spend more time in the woodshed before making those leaps.

And when I do I will almost certainly start with LASS Lite and Requiem Lite, simply because they are entry points. I could probably make the argument that it would be beneficial to leap now and learn to use them, but I haven't.

So I can be sympathetic to those that are looking at two really amazing libraries that introduce all sorts of new capabilities - they have a tough choice to make if they have to choose between them. And then there is VOCI, which hasn't been put on the calendar that I am aware of, but is probably still in development.

An embarrassment of riches???


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## Christian Marcussen (Sep 28, 2010)

Tonhammer 0wnez me...


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## madbulk (Sep 28, 2010)

Ashermusic @ Tue Sep 28 said:


> But I sometimes get the feeling that there are a lot of folks here struggling to buy libraries that they cannot really afford to help them achieve a sound for a type of project that they are not getting hired for and will not likely get hired for in the mistaken belief that if they only have the right combo of libraries they perhaps will.
> 
> Perhaps this is rally another thread I should start or maybe even a new column for FIlm Music Magazine.



You are treading on dangerous ground here, Man. Kinda like when Kramer tried to stop the mail. Just back away slowly, Jay.


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## Ashermusic (Sep 28, 2010)

madbulk @ Tue Sep 28 said:


> Ashermusic @ Tue Sep 28 said:
> 
> 
> > But I sometimes get the feeling that there are a lot of folks here struggling to buy libraries that they cannot really afford to help them achieve a sound for a type of project that they are not getting hired for and will not likely get hired for in the mistaken belief that if they only have the right combo of libraries they perhaps will.
> ...



ROTFL!


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## NYC Composer (Sep 28, 2010)

rJames @ Mon Sep 20 said:


> [quote:1d08b47119="Christian Marcussen @ Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:53 am"]
> 
> At $299 its kindof a no brainer, if you want that strident/apocalyptic souò q   èËD q   èËE q   èËF q   èËG q   èËH q   èËI q   èËJ q   èËK q   èËL q   èËM q   èËN


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## twinsinmind (Oct 3, 2010)

Folmann @ Sun Sep 19 said:


> w desperately we (developers) try to convince customers to purchase our products. I could namedrop doses of high-end composers (including Trevor Morris on Tudors) that are using Requiem, but at the end of the day its all in the ears of (you) the beholder.



You know when Avatar came in the theatres

i saw on almost every big sample company that Horner used their library in the 
soundtrack.
"wooow i want this library cos composer x , likes it"

Why do i never see John williams, Hans Zimmer and some other top composers
making this statements.??

Btw: i do not attack Troels with this comment as Requiem is* superbly* .
Though i am pretty sure that the high end composers 
will hire a real choir to fix their mockups. Simply because all the existing choirlibraries are far too limited in vowels, words and other elements that makes
a real choir impossible to replace.

To answer the question for our friend: 

I still LOVE ADORE Spectrasonics Symphony of Voices 
which is still a very useable library , its even completely inside the library of Omnisphere. If you need AHHHH-EHHHH morphs and not really words
Have a look at those first.


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## Synesthesia (Oct 4, 2010)

Hi twinsinmind,

Just fwiw, we were delighted that James use the Spitfire libraries in Avatar and I can assure you that there was no 'reduction' or whatever - he and the guys who work with him are fantastic blokes who are very happy to give praise where its due.

I'm only posting this as I'm sure its a thought that crosses every mind when you see something like this but in this case its unfair and actually incorrect to single out JH..

I also agree though that SOV is still a great lib - still getting lots of usage out of that!

Cheers,

Paul


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## twinsinmind (Oct 4, 2010)

Synesthesia @ Mon Oct 04 said:


> Hi twinsinmind,
> 
> Just fwiw, we were delighted that James use the Spitfire libraries in Avatar and I can assure you that there was no 'reduction' or whatever - he and the guys who work with him are fantastic blokes who are very happy to give praise where its due.
> 
> ...




Yes you are right, i changed my comment Paul, didn't want to offent anyone.
and your libraries should get all the praises it earns.

Regards and respect to all Developpers of present day software


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## Sopranos (Oct 4, 2010)

I know we have beat this thing to death but I was wondering if anyone would share any direct experience between Requiem and EWQL SC. I will be making a decision within the next few days and just want to make sure I've done my homework. I'm not particularly worried about the phrase builder issues with EWQL SC as my main focus is the quality of oohs, aahhs and epic chants.

I have Omnisphere which offers some standard oohhs and aahhs but I still hear something I like better in some of my mates tracks using EWQl SC.

Since Requiem Light and EWQL SC is about the same price (when EW is on sale), I am wondering what would be a better first choice for me.

Thanks for any insight between these two, specifically.


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## Animus (Oct 4, 2010)

Sopranos @ Tue Oct 05 said:


> I know we have beat this thing to death but I was wondering if anyone would share any direct experience between Requiem and EWQL SC. I will be making a decision within the next few days and just want to make sure I've done my homework. I'm not particularly worried about the phrase builder issues with EWQL SC as my main focus is the quality of oohs, aahhs and epic chants.
> 
> I have Omnisphere which offers some standard oohhs and aahhs but I still hear something I like better in some of my mates tracks using EWQl SC.
> 
> ...



I'd say id you want to be technical with SATB and get all mr roboto with words then EWSC is your ticket. If you want to be badass and epic and rocknroll evil get Requiem Lite. I'd prefer the latter personally, and to hear the lamentations of the women.


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## twinsinmind (Oct 4, 2010)

They are just not comparable: while SC is definitly older but still does its work, its harder to get the kind of quick phrase building that you get with Requiem 1.1

but as said before, if you want that big movie sound Requiem is the one to buy.
if you want more the soft feeling and the emotional choir works go Voxos
if you want an all arrounder AND have time to spend take a go on Choirs.

though i would suggest you to buy the 10 days demo drive of EW then first.


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## noiseboyuk (Oct 5, 2010)

The thing about SC is that it SHOULD be as simple (well, almost) as Requiem or Voxos. The problem is that it doesn't work. In theory, you can just put in one of the preset Latin phrases from the menu into WB and away you go... in practice you will probably find one of a thousand problems that will drive you insane.

The promise of Play integration is the carrot that keeps us hoping that SC will be usable. I'm not in the trial, so I've no idea how it's going. In theory it should be smart enough to not need to set up the right WB patch with the right Play patch. IN THEORY it should work really easily.

Especially with the VOTA expansion for the more aggressive stuff, I find the sound does me pretty darn well (OK, no legato though). I hesitate to say it might be worth waiting until word is in on the Play-WB integration, cos it could be a fools errand, but we all live in hope...

EDIT - ok, WB's Votox will never be quite as easy as either Voxos or Requiem, but for rough and ready cod Latin (which, ahem, is exactly what I usually want it for), it should be pretty simple.


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