# Mural or Sable or Cinestrings?



## 5Lives (Feb 16, 2015)

Hi all,

Been thinking of grabbing another string library (have Cinematic Strings 2 and LASS - CS2, while easy to play, is missing some articulations like portamento and spiccatos and to be honest, can sound a bit "synthy" at times. LASS is very playable, but a very raw sound out of the box - and none of the S&C presets are too appealing to me).

The three I'm contemplating right now are:

Cinestrings - big fan of Cinesamples in general. They make very playable instruments - perhaps at the expense of super detailed articulations, but I generally don't need that. Only thing this seems to be lacking is portamento. On sale right now for $389 and takes up 50gb of space. Also the Cinestrings Runs seems interesting.

Spitfire Mural - big fan of Spitfire as well (own all 3 Albions). Seems like I only "need" volume 1 to have all of the sections and a number of articulations. Much more expensive at $600+ (but a more manageable size at 30gb).

Spitfire Sable - seems like I'd need volumes 1 and 2 to get the entire section? Most expensive option - $1200+ and the largest (seems like over 100gb??). Small section as well, which is not that big of an issue.

Prefer the "romantic", "sweeping", "lush" sound vs. epic. Also plan on using these in non-classical contexts (like in pop music - think Adele strings).

Thoughts?

Cheers all!


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## mk282 (Feb 16, 2015)

Mural is an epic, huge ensemble (60 players). Sable is more romantic, as you say, since it's a smaller ensemble (16 players). Mural vol 2 adds more legato types, this is quite important I find, since you can do everything - bowed, fingered and portamento legato. This is for all string sections.

You have the broad brushes covered with the three Albions. Sable will add a lot of subtle details to Loegria since it's the same ensemble size (or at least very similar - both are chamber sized).

Personally I'm much more fond of Spitfire than most other VI devs, including CS.


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## JohnG (Feb 16, 2015)

I love Sable but, if by "romantic," one means "sweeping large sound," Sable is not that at all. It's not recorded that way (it's a very modest chamber-sized orchestra) and it's clearly not intended that way either.

Whatever the adjectives, it would offer you a completely different palette from what you own already, it's a nice recording and so on so it might be perfect as a complement to what you have.

I own the whole thing and it's great as I'm getting to know it.

From some of your questions on this and that other thread, 5Lives, it seems like you are looking for something that sounds great, is not too overwhelming to use, and so on. The full Sable library is pretty extensive (lots of articulations) and, if one is a hobbyist, gets pretty expensive as well.

I wonder if Spitfire's "Spitfire Ensembles" might answer what you are seeking?

http://www.spitfireaudio.com/bml-sable-ensembles

Although, as I wrote, I own the entire Sable library, I actually haven't used the Ensembles yet, as I've loaded the individual instruments, so I'm not as familiar with the Ensembles as some other users may be.

Carefully read what's on their website to be sure it's really what you want. Also, I don't know what you are listening through to make your decisions, but try to get the best speakers / amp / converter setup you possibly can when you make these decisions.

Good luck!


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## 5Lives (Feb 16, 2015)

Thanks all - a few Spitfire fans I see 

John - I'll take a look at Sable Ensembles. Have always been a little vary of ensemble patches though - fine to sketch with, but limited control. Already have Albions for that - or are these different? To clarify - I'm looking for good playability - not necessarily simple. LASS has great playability IMO, but you can get complex too - I like the velocity mapped patches since that is easy to control in realtime compared to key switches (for me at least). Mural and Sable are enticing because of the articulations but with the speed control, can be very playable too it seems. Sable as you said feels like a unique sound compared to my current libraries - but so expensive and big...

Anybody have both this and Cinestrings? How do they compare?


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## JohnG (Feb 16, 2015)

I also am leery of ensemble-type libraries. Love their sound sometimes but, like you, I prefer to compose in lines rather than chords. 

From what you said, however, you already have a lot of strings if you want detailed lines, so this might be a simpler / less expensive route to a different sound.

In defense of ensembles, there is no law against loading the same ensemble patch multiple times and still writing for V1, V2, Vla, Vcl, CB. If you load five "sus strings" patches in a single instance of Kontakt and simply change midi channels, I believe you'll actually be loading the samples (and thus taxing memory) only once.

Like you, I love LASS' original playability, which is superb, (it's a little spongier -- here at least -- when using the latest envelopes and what-not that came with v2.5). It took me a long time, once accustomed to that mod-wheel-heavy library, to get used to others. But it can be done!

Good luck on your exploration.


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## Valérie_D (Feb 16, 2015)

I am really interested with Berlin Strings and their new Capsule, I want to do trailers and Library tracks with them so cinematic more than classical.

Anybody think that this is a good idea?

Thanks for your advices!

Valérie


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## mk282 (Feb 16, 2015)

Wrong thread for that question, Valerie.


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## Valérie_D (Feb 16, 2015)

All Right, I'm starting a new one then


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## 5Lives (Feb 18, 2015)

Any more opinions on this? Especially for how Cinestrings compare. Thanks!


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## AC986 (Feb 18, 2015)

5Lives @ Wed Feb 18 said:


> Any more opinions on this? Especially for how Cinestrings compare. Thanks!



If you're running a fairly well spec'd computer and have SSD's (although not completely necessary), I would go for the Cinesamples library at the sale price based on the information that you've previously given. Here's a really good looking function that could be useful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u7_Zr5H8Kg


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## vudoo (Feb 18, 2015)

i was in the same position as you a few weeks ago and after listening to lots of demo i end up with Spitfire. I was really hoping i would prefer Cinesamples since it was cheaper but in the end i just had to go with what my ears tell me 

I just love the way all the Spitfire libraries sound…soooo organic!


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## Tatu (Feb 18, 2015)

Well, if you buy Mural Vol. 1, you'll eventually notice that for serious writing, you also need vol. 2. (for example, vol. 1 has tremolos only on V1, Cellos and Basses, vol. 2 has the rest. No trills, unless you buy vol. 2). What you get is a great sounding - IMO perhaps the best sounding - but still a bit limited library. You can get started with it.

Can't speak of full Mural, but I do have the palette and it sounds sick good.

Cinestrings - I don't have it, can't comment. A bit tempted to get, but can't throw my dollahs to VI's for a while. Sale and everything.

Then there's of course 8Dio's stuff...


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## ChristopherDoucet (Feb 18, 2015)

Mural!!!

I bought all 3 volumes of Sable and while it's amazing, I wish I had waited and invested in Mural. 

I own Cinestrings too...Pretty cool, but Mural...my, goodness...


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## 5Lives (Feb 18, 2015)

Awesome feedback all - thank you! I know - something about Spitfire right? Interesting to hear some preference of Mural over Sable. Didn't expect that.


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## jleckie (Feb 18, 2015)

Spitfire all the way baby.


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## prodigalson (Feb 18, 2015)

I'm a huge SF fan. I think Sable and Mural are some of the best sounding strings out there but I don't think you can compare Sable and Mural. They aim to do different things. One wouldn't choose one over the other. Sable is some of the most realistic sampled strings you'll hear but it's an intentionally small band. It's not going to give you the big sweeping lush sound that Mural will (obviously, unless you layer sections by using the transposition trick but even then...)

Also, my 2 cents, don't discount CineStrings. I LOOOOVE them. They don't have as complete a set of articulations in the current volume but my god do they sound amazing. Talk about that big classic Hollywood sound. It's really inspiring. 

I use Mural and CineStrings but for different projects. Love em both.


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## Zardoz (Feb 19, 2015)

I too have Cinestrings and it's a great library, especially if you get it during one of their better sales. If you are looking for that classic bright 70s/80s/90s John Williams/Alan Silvestri type string sound you get that pretty much right out of the box. You can of course tweak to do lots of other things. It's a very easy to use library - very composer friendly. You'll mostly just need to ride a couple of CCs to get what you want. 

It desperately needs a "pro" version with more articulations like their other libraries have, but what you get with Core gets you about 80% of the way there. I'm sure the pro version is imminent. There are a handful of noisy samples but no showstoppers. 

Anyway, I highly recommend it.

Edit: Just looked and they are having a 30% off sale right now. Cinestrings is at $389. Also noticed their terrific Harp is on sale for $55! That deserves a thread of it's own. =o


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## 5Lives (Feb 19, 2015)

Thanks. I wish Spitfire had better demos for their strings to be honest - ones that let you hear the strings without much other instrumentation. CineStrings has pretty great demos and you can really hear the sound of their strings. Same with EW.


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## Andy B (Feb 20, 2015)

5Lives @ Fri Feb 20 said:


> Thanks. I wish Spitfire had better demos for their strings to be honest - ones that let you hear the strings without much other instrumentation. CineStrings has pretty great demos and you can really hear the sound of their strings. Same with EW.



Here are some exposed string demos for Sable – I'm not sure if they're on Soundcloud.

[mp3]http://spitfire-webassets.s3.amazonaws.com/audio/SABLE%20Leg%20Perf%20Palette%20Demo%20AB.mp3[/mp3]

[mp3]http://spitfire-webassets.s3.amazonaws.com/audio/Sable%20vlns%20vlas%20celli%20Legato.mp3[/mp3]

[mp3]http://spitfire-webassets.s3.amazonaws.com/audio/Sable_3_Fast_Legato_Demo_AB.mp3[/mp3]

http://spitfire-webassets.s3.amazonaws.com/audio/SABLE Leg Perf Palette Demo AB.mp3
http://spitfire-webassets.s3.amazonaws.com/audio/Sable vlns vlas celli Legato.mp3
http://spitfire-webassets.s3.amazonaws.com/audio/Sable_3_Fast_Legato_Demo_AB.mp3

Thanks,

Andy.


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## AC986 (Feb 20, 2015)

I think this is great video and one of the most useful I've seen regarding the using of and the naked sound of samples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWmk62AMBcs


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## mk282 (Feb 20, 2015)

Andy B @ 20.2.2015 said:


> http://spitfire-webassets.s3.amazonaws.com/audio/Sable_3_Fast_Legato_Demo_AB.mp3



This one always blows my mind. Best fast legato run patch ANYWHERE!


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## PeterKorcek (Feb 20, 2015)

adriancook @ Fri Feb 20 said:


> I think this is great video and one of the most useful I've seen regarding the using of and the naked sound of samples.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWmk62AMBcs



Musicians dont play that loud, they will die :-D


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## 5Lives (Feb 20, 2015)

Andy B @ Fri Feb 20 said:


> Here are some exposed string demos for Sable – I'm not sure if they're on Soundcloud.
> 
> [mp3]http://spitfire-webassets.s3.amazonaws.com/audio/SABLE%20Leg%20Perf%20Palette%20Demo%20AB.mp3[/mp3]
> 
> ...



Thanks Andy - these are incredible!!


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## JohnG (Feb 20, 2015)

Sable rocks.


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## samphony (Feb 20, 2015)

Spitfire all the way.


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## esencia (Feb 22, 2015)

In my opinion... the 3 options are amazing. My favourite ones...

Cinestrings has an amazing playability. They give you the change to evolve an articulation to another just moving CC while the sounds transform itself to the next articulation.
that´s the most amazing and useful thing of that library.
The rest of them allow you just modify dynamics, vibrato (too subtle depending on what you are expecting)... but don´t give you the chance to move from un articulation to another while it´s playing , only change the sound to the next note after pressing KS.

But..
about the sound...

Spitfire rocks. For me, it´s the most real and easy to mix sound of all of them. 
It they would add some programming to do this articulation movement will be the only one. 

I love the spitfire audio sound. It´s much easier to mix with other instruments. 
I love cinestrings sound too, but it´s more "hard", more epic or modern .. with absolutely great playability.

Sable is more subtle than mural, even more delicate... Also a good complement, but not as the only one strings library. 
About strings libraries, I'm a Spitfire Mural, solo strings, evo, artisan cello, ... and know I need to evolve the articulations that I have, and I wonder how Mural 2 will add value to my set ...


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## 5Lives (Feb 22, 2015)

Yes, Cinesamples instruments are very easy to play in terms of sustain pedal for legato and velocity for different shorts, etc. It seems like Sable (and I would imagine Mural) allows you to use velocity to move between legato, portamento, and bow change though which seems very handy.


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## Vik (Feb 22, 2015)

esencia @ 22.2.2015 said:


> I'm a Spitfire Mural, solo strings, evo, artisan cello, ... and know I need to evolve the articulations that I have, and I wonder how Mural 2 will add value to my set ...


Mural 2 makes a lot of difference - for instance, the portamentos are in 2, but not in 1. 



> don´t give you the chance to move from un articulation to another while it´s playing , only change the sound to the next note after pressing KS.


 In the so called Performance presets, you can switch between Legato/Portamento, Legato/Fingered and Legato/Bowed with velocity (but not for all the instruments). 
The other articulations (sul tasto, con sordino, col legno etc) are spread over two other/different presets - and you can set up your own solutions, like triggering articulations by CC range, key switches, MIDI channel and speed of playing. 

I also considered both Cinestrings and Spitfire, and ended up with Mural 1&2. Cinestrings has some nice stuff too - a like polyphony legato algorithm which seems great. The only worry I have is that bugs in the Mural presets that has been fixed for Mural 6-12 months ago still haven't been released, and it also seems to take long time to get the remaining mic positions out. And you are to some degree right: Mural doesn't come with a ready-to-go set up which you just can load and switch between all the articulations on the fly. There are also six different articulation modes –Locked/unlocked/locked to UACC, locked to UACC key switches and so on... 

After circa a year as a Mural owner I'm still confused re. what the best way to set things up is. I really like all the flexibility, but IMHO the library would have gotten a much more positive response (and it's already very good) if the bugfixes were released and if the library came with a suggested best method for switching between all the articulations on the fly. Fine ways to trigger articulations and six different modes = a lot of choices.

Don't get me wrong: some of the stuff is already in there, like what I mentioned about different legato modes, and there are also preassigned controls for dynamics. And - automation comes preassigned as well: CC1 controls dynamics, CC1 controls Expression and so on. But to my knowledge, these assignments can't be used for my kind of work (I use Logic), and have to be reassigned to "Host Automation" instead of MIDI Automation". And after you have assigned them to MIDI automation values, some problems pop up, but that's probably due to limitations in Logic. 

After a lot of reading and listening last winter, I would have chosen Berlin Strings, and not CineStrings if Spitfire didn't exist. It seems that even today, Berlin is more "playable" out of the box (than Mural). But Mural sounds really good, and most of the stuff that already is programmed into Mural is done properly. So let's hope they'll release some improved presets with new features and fixed bugs soon!


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## DMarr82 (Feb 22, 2015)

Another vote for Mural. LOVE the way this sounds. And I think its more a complete package than Cinestrings, but I am eagerly awaiting Cinestrings "PRO" package. I think its long overdue, however. :cry:


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## mk282 (Feb 22, 2015)

Vik @ 22.2.2015 said:


> But to my knowledge, these assignments can't be used for my kind of work (I use Logic), and have to be reassigned to "Host Automation" instead of MIDI Automation". And after you have assigned them to MIDI automation values, some problems pop up, but that's probably due to limitations in Logic.



You don't need to assign host automation... you're definitely able to draw in the CC values by hand in piano roll, and Logic definitely must be able to record whatever MIDI input you give it... so if your MIDI controller sends all the relevant CCs, you can record that directly as MIDI... no need to use host automation at all...


And, all the artic switching modes are there for different workflows. There is no single mode that is "recommended"... it's your choice, whatever fits you better is "best". You just have to find that out for yourself.


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## Vik (Feb 22, 2015)

mk282 @ 22.2.2015 said:


> You don't need to assign host automation... you're definitely able to draw in the CC values by hand in piano roll


Sure, but I don't want that. I want to use Region automation, eg. bucks this way, I can see and edit multiple lanes of automation at the same time (and due to other things which IMO makes region automation a better solution)....




> if your MIDI controller sends all the relevant CCs...


The only solution which really makes sense to me is a solution which allows me to feel mix input methods. Such a solution will also work for people who are travelling, using a laptop and not bringing a hardware controller: they may, if they want, eg enter Touch or Latch automation mode and record some movements of Spitfire's own sliders and knobs. 





> There is no single mode that is "recommended"... it's your choice, whatever fits you better is "best". You just have to find that out for yourself.


I know, and I think most people would like to save some time and at least read through a page or two explaining which workflow which will be most suitable for the kind work people are about to do. Hopefully all this will change with the new MIDI protocol...


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## mk282 (Feb 22, 2015)

Vik @ 22.2.2015 said:


> Hopefully all this will change with the new MIDI protocol...



Don't expect this new MIDI protocol to be implemented everywhere immediately. I reckon it's going to take at least 5 more years, more likely 10.


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## Vik (Feb 22, 2015)

Sure - it will take time.
Being a Logic user, I probably just try to rationalise why Apple spends this extreme amount of time without implementing needed functionality in this area... thinking that maybe they're just waiting for a new standard to be finalised.


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## 5Lives (Feb 27, 2015)

Given the other thread going on about Spitfire, I've become a bit hesitant to spend that much on Sable or Mural - seems multiple people have bugs with the programming.

Given that, would love some thoughts on Berlin Strings. How resource intensive are they vs the rest?


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## Synesthesia (Feb 28, 2015)

5Lives @ Sat Feb 28 said:


> Given the other thread going on about Spitfire, I've become a bit hesitant to spend that much on Sable or Mural - seems multiple people have bugs with the programming.
> 
> Given that, would love some thoughts on Berlin Strings. How resource intensive are they vs the rest?



Just for balance, this is absolutely not the case. The 99.99% of our customers who are not posting an issue on that slightly odd thread are using the libraries perfectly happily. 

Of course there will be the odd small thing that slips through the net and these are addressed in our regular updates. But the talk of "unusable" and "schoolboy errors" and so on is just people enjoying pontificating!


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## AC986 (Feb 28, 2015)

5Lives @ Fri Feb 27 said:


> Given the other thread going on about Spitfire, I've become a bit hesitant to spend that much on Sable or Mural - seems multiple people have bugs with the programming.
> 
> Given that, would love some thoughts on Berlin Strings. How resource intensive are they vs the rest?



Depends what sort of sound you want your samples to make. Whatever you get, I'm prepared to bet you'll buy another string library at some point. 

Berlin Strings would be down my list. Cinesamples and Mural/Sable would be at the top. But it's all just personal taste. If I was going after a string library now, I would get the cheapest and the one nearer the top of the lists.


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## 5Lives (Feb 28, 2015)

adriancook @ Sat Feb 28 said:


> Depends what sort of sound you want your samples to make. Whatever you get, I'm prepared to bet you'll buy another string library at some point.
> 
> Berlin Strings would be down my list. Cinesamples and Mural/Sable would be at the top. But it's all just personal taste. If I was going after a string library now, I would get the cheapest and the one nearer the top of the lists.



You're probably right!  Curious to know why Berlin Strings is further down your list than the other two?

To be honest, I'm leaning towards Mural / Sable just given the sound (the Sable Ensembles demos are gorgeous which convinced me) - so hard to choose between them!


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## AC986 (Feb 28, 2015)

Why don't you stick a piece that you've done up so it gives everyone an idea of what you want?


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## 5Lives (Feb 28, 2015)

Rather than embarrassing myself like that, here are three examples of music that encapsulate the sound I general try to go for:

Piano-focused with strings accompaniment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCSl3vtV6Kk (the English Chamber Orchestra)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wigu44J8F1A (apparently the Royal Philharmonic?)

Pop song accompaniment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZF7CDBj1U0 (apparently the London Studio Orchestra)


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## AC986 (Feb 28, 2015)

Very unlikely you'll get that sound with anything.

Any library will get that sort of ballpark though, including VSL. Take the first example, the Beethoven take-off. Just about anything will get a pretty good facsimile of that. Where it will get tricky, is where you go down to more of a solo instrument tone.

Get anything that vaguely sounds similar. The cheaper the better. Sale deals, that type of thing.


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## JohnG (Feb 28, 2015)

adriancook @ 28th February 2015 said:


> Very unlikely you'll get that sound with anything.
> 
> Any library will get that sort of ballpark though, including VSL. Take the first example, the Beethoven take-off. Just about anything will get a pretty good facsimile of that. Where it will get tricky, is where you go down to more of a solo instrument tone.
> 
> Get anything that vaguely sounds similar. The cheaper the better. Sale deals, that type of thing.



This is terrible advice.

It is not true that "any library" will get this kind of sound. The best thing is to try to find someone who lives near you so that you can try out the libraries yourself.


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## Arbee (Feb 28, 2015)

From your examples I'd suggest you're heading into the old favourites HS/LASS territory....

.


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## 5Lives (Feb 28, 2015)

Ok, so I thought I'd do a quick sketch in the string libraries I have today. Really should have done this a while go to get a sense of three key things: playability, tweakability, and of course, sound.

The sketch was me playing in real-time, including mod wheel - minor edits after the fact for each library, but limited tweaking apart from that. Just using the legato patches.

Recording here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_yhSLLKjL-lOTdkNENTdHItck0/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_yhSL ... sp=sharing)

1 LASS 2.5 (just the first sections to have a smaller sound)
2 Albion 2 Loegria
3 Cinematic Strings
4 VSL SE Chamber Strings
5 Session Strings Pro

Please excuse the terrible music.

Here are my thoughts:
1) LASS's legato patch is super playable - love having portamento right on the same patch controlled via velocity (as I've mentioned before). Sound-wise, it isn't too bad - required EQ though and there are still some bumps / inconsistent sound in there I haven't been able to get rid of.

2) Loegria sounds the nicest to me personally - so warm! BUT not as playable as LASS - in fact, much less so in my experience. Required a fair amount of tweaking. Also, through some tests, it is clear it won't stand up with fast passages while LASS will.

3) Cinematic Strings were easy to play, but not a big fan of the sound - way too wet for my taste. Sounds a bit synthy (like Omnisphere's strings). Maybe due to the size? Too big for definition.

4) VSL SE was the worst sounding of the bunch to me - plus there is a terrible resonance in the violins I couldn't tame.

5) Session Strings Pro - forgot how playable they've made it and great, flexible interface (can configure sustain pedal to toggle to any other articulation for example). Pretty thin sounding though and uneven.

So what do I want? Something that has the playability of LASS and the warmth of Albion. After doing all of these tests, I listened to some demos again and Berlin Strings sounded spectacular - how playable are they though? I'm hesitant to buy more Spitfire given my experience with Albion - love the sound, but maybe the interface is not for me. Cinestrings seems very playable, but maybe too big of a sound and lacking portamento, which I seem to like a fair amount when writing.


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## AC986 (Mar 1, 2015)

For that 'Pacobel' type of deal then definitely the warm sound of Spitfire's Loegra wins it subjectively for me.
LASS has always been too brittle for me on anything but that doesn't mean other's shouldn't love it and it's good for other things.
CS is too big for that type of music but good for a lot of other types.
The VSL sound actually suited that music. :lol: 
Session Strings is a bit out of focus. If it was a photograph, you'd have to shoot it again.

The issue will be though, what are you going to use when you write something different?

For example, like this. Fairly sparse examples because I don't go into depth hardly ever at all, like some folks round here with their very big and bold orchestrations. 

https://soundcloud.com/adrian-cook-79/strings-pastiche


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## 5Lives (Mar 1, 2015)

That sounds really nice Adrian! What strings did you use?

I spent some more time playing around with LASS vs. Loegria and definitely like the sound of Loegria - now just need it in sections. I noticed Berlin is exactly the same size as Loegria (pretty much).

In terms of writing different, I generally write that sort of stuff so prefer to focus on that first. Have never writing something big / trailer-like - probably not going to either (just do this for my own enjoyment vs. for work).


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## AC986 (Mar 1, 2015)

5Lives @ Sun Mar 01 said:


> That sounds really nice Adrian! What strings did you use?
> 
> I spent some more time playing around with LASS vs. Loegria and definitely like the sound of Loegria - now just need it in sections. I noticed Berlin is exactly the same size as Loegria (pretty much).
> 
> In terms of writing different, I generally write that sort of stuff so prefer to focus on that first. Have never writing something big / trailer-like - probably not going to either (just do this for my own enjoyment vs. for work).



haha. Thats nice of you to say.

You tell me. Have a bit of fun and tell me what the 3 examples of strings you reckon they are. I don't do trailers. unless they tell me to.


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## 5Lives (Mar 1, 2015)

I'm going to fail at this game  You should at least give me some hints! What libraries do you have?

The first piece seems to have a smaller size ensemble - much drier. Nice articulation variety. Probably my favorite of the bunch. VSL maybe? Sable with just close mics?

The second piece has a much bigger sound. Back to a smaller section for the last one.


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## AC986 (Mar 1, 2015)

5Lives @ Sun Mar 01 said:


> I'm going to fail at this game  You should at least give me some hints! What libraries do you have?
> 
> The first piece seems to have a smaller size ensemble - much drier. Nice articulation variety. Probably my favorite of the bunch. VSL maybe? Sable with just close mics?
> 
> The second piece has a much bigger sound. Back to a smaller section for the last one.



Very good indeed!  

First one is just one articulation for all the strings. Spicatto. Mural & Sable.

Second one was tricky but you got it. VSL App Sordinos.

Third one?


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## 5Lives (Mar 1, 2015)

Wow - the first one sounded almost too dry to be Spitfire, but awesome stuff! I'd say the best demo I've heard for Sable and Mural so far (since it is just exposed).

No idea what the last one is. Sounds warmer than the 2nd one - I like it.

Looks like it's back down to Berlin vs. Spitfire.


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## AC986 (Mar 1, 2015)

5Lives @ Sun Mar 01 said:


> Wow - the first one sounded almost too dry to be Spitfire, but awesome stuff! I'd say the best demo I've heard for Sable and Mural so far (since it is just exposed).
> 
> No idea what the last one is. Sounds warmer than the 2nd one - I like it.
> 
> Looks like it's back down to Berlin vs. Spitfire.



The last one is really tricky. It's more all less all Omnisphere. There are no woodwinds for example. 

There are some serious players here like Carles, Andy B, and loads more that can make these things talk. I would point you in their direction whenever they put anything up.

One of my favourite exponents of samples and the use of, is Repeat. Always take a listen if he posts anything. 

If sample libraries were a game of poker, I wouldn't sit at the table with any of the above, lets put it that way.  

But contrarily, you should also listen to the lesser mortals like me, because you will also learn the weaknesses of any given library out of the box and of course they all have them

I play at it. I just do library music and am nowhere near as forensic as the above. These guys _actually_ play around with tempos, time signatures and velocities!! :lol: 

What you could try, is to ask the sample libraries you are interested in to take your midi file and see what they come back with. May not work, but you never know.


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## 5Lives (Mar 7, 2015)

Just to cap this off, I ended up getting Sable 1, 2, and 3 - and it is amazing. I love the Spitfire sound and interface and programming and everything. I might spring for Mural in the future too. Sable layered with Albion II is exactly the sound I was looking for.

Thanks for all the help to all!


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## mk282 (Mar 7, 2015)

Better wrap that Sable up with vol 4 before you go for Mural, though!


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## 5Lives (Mar 7, 2015)

mk282 @ Sat Mar 07 said:


> Better wrap that Sable up with vol 4 before you go for Mural, though!



Hah - possibly! I don't know if I'll need the articulations in v4 though. They seem more decorative - went with v3 because it had the fast and run legatos.


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## mk282 (Mar 7, 2015)

You never know when you might need those decorations, sir! 

On the other hand, Mural vol1+2 are just yummy. When vol3 is released, it will have all the fast/run legatos like Sable vol3, now THAT is going to be amazing!


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## Vik (Mar 7, 2015)

mk282 @ 7.3.2015 said:


> When vol3 is released, it will have all the fast/run legatos like Sable vol3, now THAT is going to be amazing!


Is there still a list somewhere listing what's going to be in Mural 3?


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## mk282 (Mar 7, 2015)

Not sure, but it only makes sense to fill vol3 of Mural with what Sable had in vol3?


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## David Gosnell (Mar 7, 2015)

Synesthesia @ Sat Feb 28 said:


> 5Lives @ Sat Feb 28 said:
> 
> 
> > Given the other thread going on about Spitfire, I've become a bit hesitant to spend that much on Sable or Mural - seems multiple people have bugs with the programming.
> ...



Ok, ok, I apologise for the 'schoolboy errors' line. I guess I have many times for example wanted to use the Iceni nasty longs at the end of an epic type cue, but I can't because the loop point is just after a mini swell which then continually repeats if the note is held - thereby screaming sample. There are a few other similar looping, well, let's call them 'choices' within the Spitfire libraries where the same problem occurs - the sound is absolutely perfect, but you can't hold them for more than a couple of seconds otherwise the unnatural 'lump' occurs - but in the case of Iceni low strings, I will confess that I have manually ironed our the lumps from bounced audio because the sound was just what I wanted.

From your perspective, lumps and bumps may add realism - I guess my comment comes from a tradition where in a looped sample, lesson 101 is to make sure you avoid including anything prominent right before the loop point, because it makes your use of samples obvious when the prominent sound keeps mechanically repeating. The same is true of tuning fruitiness, one sour G# is realistic, every G# sour says 'samples' ( though, since Albion 1 - I haven't noticed that issue - so that makes me happy.

Finally, I'd like to think I buy products based solely on their performance and value for money, rather than my warm and fuzzy feelings about the developer - but I still think that although you have every right to express your opinion of a customer who owns almost all of your orchestral products, especially if he says something you believe to be unfair or disrespectful - you'll have to look hard to find a business manual that states that exercising those rights is ever a good idea in practice. It is always better to correct misunderstandings through education rather than confrontation.

The previous thread you mention, caused you to have to make an intervention here to save the day. If you had resisted the temptation to drop in a side-swipe in my direction at the same time, I wouldn't have specifically posted about the looping issue. 

QED.


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## mickeyl (Nov 23, 2015)

JohnG said:


> I also am leery of ensemble-type libraries. Love their sound sometimes but, like you, I prefer to compose in lines rather than chords.
> 
> From what you said, however, you already have a lot of strings if you want detailed lines, so this might be a simpler / less expensive route to a different sound.
> 
> In defense of ensembles, there is no law against loading the same ensemble patch multiple times and still writing for V1, V2, Vla, Vcl, CB. If you load five "sus strings" patches in a single instance of Kontakt and simply change midi channels, I believe you'll actually be loading the samples (and thus taxing memory) only once.



You would be limited to the -- non-adjustable -- range of the sections in the ensemble patch then though, right?


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