# Sennheiser HD-600?



## Mason

My studio headphones are falling apart so it's time to invest in some new ones. I'm not a professional studio producer, but do a lot of piano and/or orchestral tracks. I wonder if the Sennheiser HD-600 would be a good choice and a reasonable price for my usage?


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## ryans

HD-600 are a great 'neutral' headphone.. mixes should translate well. I love their natural sound, accurate mids, the highs are BEAUTIFUL.. smooth and never harsh, can listen to them for hours. I find them comfortable.

Weaknesses: not much sub bass, narrow stereo image.. and the imaging isn't as precise as other headphones... 

I love to mix on them.. and also just listen to music on them, everything just sounds natural and (correct?). But for precise analysis I usually choose a different headphone.. or monitors.

Ryan


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## Vonk

I really like my HD650 for mixing. Here's a comparison between the two that might be of interest. 
https://www.leadsrating.com/headphone-reviews/headphone-comparisons/sennheiser-hd600-vs-hd650/


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## heisenberg

I have owned HD-600s for at least twenty years. They do have a pristine sound as mentioned but I wouldn't mix on them because the presentation is too good and too thin on the lower end.It will hide tons of issues when mixing. Ryan's comments ring true for me.

There is also the issue of where you are coming from. Say if you are mixing on JBLs with bass bins and you move to ADAM nearfields, your reference point is going to be way off once you switch.

I would go to a music store and try on a bunch of them and see what you like in comparison to some standard nearfields, like Adam, Genelec & Dynaudio which are known for having close to a neutral sound.

Having said that the HD600 are a lovely headphone but you want something for mixing.


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## David Kudell

This is what I have: The Drop.com Sennheiser HD6xx, which are HD650's just with a different color. Such a great value at $195 as opposed to $400. They're a great headphone, and one of the most neutral, as measured by Sonarworks. 









Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX | Top Rated Open-Back Headphones | Drop


Our all-time best selling open-back audiophile headphones, the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX is a replacement to the original HD 650 with a refreshed aesthetic & improved utility.




drop.com


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## sostenuto

Fairly confusing after narrowing down to Sennheiser HD600 and Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro. 
Have Yamaha powered monitors, but aging ears with hi-freq fall-off. Hoping newer headphones can help. Was warned about 'bassiness' of HD650, thus HD 600. Senns notably pricier than Beyers .... in Cart now @ $168. 
Really disappointing to have Beyers fall out of consideration at this late point. :(


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## Instrugramm

Mason said:


> My studio headphones are falling apart so it's time to invest in some new ones. I'm not a professional studio producer, but do a lot of piano and/or orchestral tracks. I wonder if the Sennheiser HD-600 would be a good choice and a reasonable price for my usage?


HD 600s are definitely the way to go, the HD6XX/ 650s have way to much mid bass, so really bad for mixing but great for monitoring when you play piano as the sound is mellow and laid back. If you should like the sound signature of the 600s, get the 58X Jubilees and "felt mod" them, they're great for just listening and having fun. 
If you need closed backs for mixing, you might want to check out the Shure 1540s or the Ether CXs on Massdrop, but open backs are definitely the more ideal solution.


I'll start posting more reviews on my facebook page soon but the ones for the HD6XX and 58xJubilee are online already. -> https://www.facebook.com/sonostuff

Ps. The HD600s are my work horses, if I want to listen to music, grab something else f. ex Sendy Aivas, 58Xs, 177X GOs, Meze Noirs etc.


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## VladK

You can't go wrong with Sennheiser. I play piano with 650 and 800S all the time. You might choose between specific models depending on your taste, but they all sound great and are very reliable.
I would say that 650 would be a good match for 8" monitors, 600 is more like thinner 5" monitors. Just remember, these are high impedance phones, is your amp able to handle them?


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## Thundercat

David Kudell said:


> This is what I have: The Drop.com Sennheiser HD6xx, which are HD650's just with a different color. Such a great value at $195 as opposed to $400. They're a great headphone, and one of the most neutral, as measured by Sonarworks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX | Top Rated Open-Back Headphones | Drop
> 
> 
> Our all-time best selling open-back audiophile headphones, the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX is a replacement to the original HD 650 with a refreshed aesthetic & improved utility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drop.com


I did this too - and I use the Kat SonarWorks software to make them neutral when I'm making critical mixing decisions.

Wonderful headphones, terrific price.

Mike


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## VladK

Massdrop 6xx has shorter 3.5mm cable included, 650 has long 1/4" cable (and quality 3.5mm adapter).
I hate 3.5mm, it's so easy to break, but if it works for you, then you are good.


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## David Kudell

Thundercat said:


> I did this too - and I use the Kat SonarWorks software to make them neutral when I'm making critical mixing decisions.
> 
> Wonderful headphones, terrific price.
> 
> Mike


Yes I have Sonarworks too. The low frequency extension on the HD6xx is quite satisfying when turned on!


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## Thundercat

David Kudell said:


> Yes I have Sonarworks too. The low frequency extension on the HD6xx is quite satisfying when turned on!


I'm quite pleased with the two together as well. Although I'm not familiar with the "low frequency extension" you speak of.

One thing I've got to do in Logic is change the Audio preferences NOT to use SonarWorks while recording as it introduces horrific latency. I usually just change it to use my audio interface instead (Apogee Quartet) while recording, and then switch it back to SonarWorks when mixing/mastering. Seems to work well.

Best,

Mike


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## Instrugramm

Oh I nearly forgot, if you do actually produce electronic music or cinematic stuff, you should either consider one of the Beyerdynamics (strongly advise to get the 1990s or 177x GOs with perforated XXL Pads by Brainwavz to get rid of the slight mid bass bump) or (if you need stay on a smaller budget) the 58Xs just to check the sub bass, the other Sennheisers (6XX/650, 600s and even 660S') can't get that low and your mix may end up muddy, since you can't actually set up compression adequatly when side chaining your kick/ bass drum.

The 58Xs will however need Sonarworks, Morphit and/or Can opener of which I'm not too much of a fan, digitally correcting headphones can produce a lot of incoherencies when actually mixing, better just buy neutral ones right off the bat. The best Jack of all traits headphones might be the 1990s for open (although my mixes turned out better with the 600s, so the 1990s had to leave) and/ or the Ether CXs for closed listening (although they'll probably make you mad with their in your face detail).


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## shomynik

After using K702 for many years I recently got both HD600 and DT880 pro as well as some Lake People headphone amp.

The HD600 is most neutral by far and sound the most "clear" (less distortion?). I believe those reasons are why I keep reaching for them first when doing headphone checks. But I do agree they seem somehow fairly forgiving, so it's important to be aware of that.


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## Monkberry

A dedicated headphone amp like the Little Labs Monotor will improve the HD600s. There are threads on VI as well as Gearslutz that will confirm that a dedicated headphone amp is pretty crucial for mixing with these headphones.


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## Instrugramm

Monkberry said:


> A dedicated headphone amp like the Little Labs Monotor will improve the HD600s. There are threads on VI as well as Gearslutz that will confirm that a dedicated headphone amp is pretty crucial for mixing with these headphones.


Yup, definitely needed, commented on that fact in another thread on here, I d' suggest getting the Magni 3+ or the Heresy by Shiit.


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## shomynik

Monkberry said:


> A dedicated headphone amp like the Little Labs Monotor will improve the HD600s. There are threads on VI as well as Gearslutz that will confirm that a dedicated headphone amp is pretty crucial for mixing with these headphones.


Oh yes, I agree. It definitely improved sound on all 3 pairs of mine comparing to driving them with RME Aio headphone amp. It's just somehow easier to hear things, somehow greater clarity but density as well.


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## Ben

I currently use the DT-880 and very happy with them. I've added an EQ to the output of my interface to get a more linear sound. Regarding interface: A good interface is as important as good headphones imo. I noticed a big improvement back when I upgraded from my small ~120€ interface to the RME UFX II.

Today I've ordered the Adam Studio Pro SP-5 because they are currently on sale 150€ below the list price and my colleagues praised them for an outstanding and detailed sound. Already excited to compare these two


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## sostenuto

Monolith M1060 (50 0hm) review has briefly delayed DT880 Pro (250 ohm) order. 
+$75. for this specific pair and hestitate to lurch without some knowledgeable support.


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## barteredbride

Soooo....now I´m confused!

I was set on getting some HD600s for mixing, but if it misses low bass frequencies, what can I do?



Is there any headphones like the HD600, but with bass detail?


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## VladK

There is no phone with completely flat, even +-6dB frequency response in 20-20K range.


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## sostenuto

Trusting Sonarworks can help with this to some extent .... HD600, but struggling to justify notable cost versus alternatives like DT880 Pro, and possibly Monolth M1060.


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## barteredbride

Ok thanks! 

I´m off to do more research now on the DT 1990 Pro and Monolth M1060 !


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## sostenuto

barteredbride said:


> Ok thanks!
> 
> I´m off to do more research now on the DT 1990 Pro and Monolth M1060 !



Read some more detailed stuff re. modding Monolith M1060 for almost no cost, BUT just not going to invest knowing these issues exist with seemingly capable audiophiles .....  DT 880 Pro is now back on top and ready to order. 
Audio I/F budget is < $500. so Clarett 2pre USB either works with DT880 Pro, or will be forced to decicated HDfone Preamp /Amp. Likley Schiit Magni 3+, but this starts another frustrating search...

(edit) DT 880 Pro ordered. Moving forward toward Schiit ... :(


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## Instrugramm

barteredbride said:


> Ok thanks!
> 
> I´m off to do more research now on the DT 1990 Pro and Monolth M1060 !





barteredbride said:


> Soooo....now I´m confused!
> 
> I was set on getting some HD600s for mixing, but if it misses low bass frequencies, what can I do?
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any headphones like the HD600, but with bass detail?


Like I said, either an eq'd pair of 58x Jubilees with felt mod (I would suggest gettin the 600s and the 58Xs, simply because the 58Xs are great ot listen to music to as well), 177X GOs with other pads (a bit less detail, but they generally strike a good balance), 1990 PROs or if you want really flat from top to bottom in a closed back: Ether CXs.


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## Instrugramm

sostenuto said:


> Read some more detailed stuff re. modding Monolith M1060 for almost no cost, BUT just not going to invest knowing these issues exist with seemingly capable audiophiles .....  DT 880 Pro is now back on top and ready to order.
> Audio I/F budget is < $500. so Clarett 2pre USB either works with DT880 Pro, or will be forced to decicated HDfone Preamp /Amp. Likley Schiit Magni 3+, but this starts another frustrating search...
> 
> (edit) DT 880 Pro ordered. Moving forward toward Schiit ... :(


The Magni Heresy is ace for analytical work, let me know what you think of the 880s, I had them for a week and really couldn't get a decent mix with them, they did sound pretty nice though.

Ps. The 1060s are awesome but really built like sh**, also wouldn't use them for mixing tbh.


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## Tim_Wells

FWIW, the Sennheiser HD-650s were Sonarworks highest rated headphone (when their correction software is turn on). The Beyerdynamics DT-880 Pro are a close second.

To me this is significant, since they spend so much time calibrating and testing headphones for mixing and mastering.


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## ryans

I've got the DT 880pro.. direct comparison with the HD600: 880pro has slightly better soundstage and imaging, also more clarity due to more treble than the HD600, although I personally find this headphone too bright.

I prefer the HD600 for mixing. It sounds more natural to me and mixes translate better...

Ryan


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## JohnG

Whether or not people admit it, and whether or not it's ideal, a certain amount of tv music does in fact get mixed on headphones. 

That said, I don't think it's a great way to go, at least not exclusively. Over time I'm more than ever convinced you need a sub to mix for cinematic music, if it's going to include the quasi-SFX that some of that music incorporates in the low end.

The HD-600s are used by lots of people, and their listed frequency response is 12-40500 Hz. I use AKGs but Sennheisers are excellent too.


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## Tim_Wells

David Kudell said:


> This is what I have: The Drop.com Sennheiser HD6xx, which are HD650's just with a different color. Such a great value at $195 as opposed to $400. They're a great headphone, and one of the most neutral, as measured by Sonarworks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX | Top Rated Open-Back Headphones | Drop
> 
> 
> Our all-time best selling open-back audiophile headphones, the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX is a replacement to the original HD 650 with a refreshed aesthetic & improved utility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drop.com


Are the Drop Sennheiser HD6xx 100% equivalent to the Sennheiser HD650s? I ask because I would want to use them with Sonarworks and if there were small differences, it may throw the calibration off.


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## sostenuto

ryans said:


> I've got the DT 880pro.. direct comparison with the HD600: 880pro has slightly better soundstage and imaging, also more clarity due to more treble than the HD600, although I personally find this headphone too bright.
> 
> I prefer the HD600 for mixing. It sounds more natural to me and mixes translate better...
> 
> Ryan



Pretty consistent with where my searching took me. HD600 ended up ~$300. + tax, while Amazon Warehouse DT880 Pro at ~$165., otd. Still hoping Sonarworks can get in ballpark ....

(edit) cancelled as Amazon delivery jumped out to May 11. Disappointed, but plenty of time with current older Senn(s).


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## sostenuto

Tim_Wells said:


> Are the Drop Sennheiser HD6xx 100% equivalent to the Sennheiser HD650s? I ask because I would want to use them with Sonarworks and if there were small differences, it may throw the calibration off.



Not sure, but seems like post somewhere mentioned cable difference from Drop to full HD650 .... HD650 being better cable. May want to check ?


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## ryans

JohnG said:


> That said, I don't think it's a great way to go, at least not exclusively. Over time I'm more than ever convinced you need a sub



I've tested/owned hundreds (maybe.. thousands? (I have a problem..) of headphones over the years... 

While many have fantastic sub bass, not ONE has come close to the sensation of large drivers pushing air out of a good sounding sub...

Maybe with enough familiarity, and reference .. one could do without a sub, but I'm not gonna give up mine anytime soon.


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## Instrugramm

Tim_Wells said:


> FWIW, the Sennheiser HD-650s were Sonarworks highest rated headphone (when their correction software is turn on). The Beyerdynamics DT-880 Pro are a close second.
> 
> To me this is significant, since they spend so much time calibrating and testing headphones for mixing and mastering.


Yup, the HD 6XX were my first headphones and every mix I ever did with them turned out with way too much treble and a flat bottom end (with Sonarworks). When i got the HD 600s I basically decided not to trust the Sonarworks blog anymore and realized the Sonarworks software barely corrects them at all.

I'm honestly convinced, that every human being on this planet can tell, that the 650s have worse imaging, too much mid bass, slightly muddier mids and missing details in the treble compared to 600s. That being said, I use the 650s for monitoring piano (great because they're mellow musical and forgiving headphones) and I NEVER use the 600s for music listening, as the analytical Nature only elevates female voices, the rest sounds harsh and brittle to my ear. The 58Xs with felt mod have a much more enjoyable sound and even give strings (especially celli) the perfect timbre.

There's no perfect pair of headphones, only different flavours, Stax might be the only allrounders...


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## Instrugramm

Tim_Wells said:


> Are the Drop Sennheiser HD6xx 100% equivalent to the Sennheiser HD650s? I ask because I would want to use them with Sonarworks and if there were small differences, it may throw the calibration off.


Different cable, the rest is the same, a friend of mine lent me his old pair of 650s to test before I got my pair. Well and they're made in Romania now but that doesn't affect the sound.^^

Ps. In case you'd want to order from drop.com, buy via this link: https://drop.com/?referer=AL4SXL , it's a 10 dollar exchange program, you get 10 dollars off when you sign up because a friend recommended them and I get 10 dollars off on my next order as well (which will be the Ether CXs, my audiophile soul needs them...), so it's basically a win win situation.

I whole heartedly recommend getting the 58Xs via drop (and doing the felt mod) and going second hand for buying HD600s. These 2 headphones will get you covered for 90% of all needs at a great price.


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## Instrugramm

sostenuto said:


> Not sure, but seems like post somewhere mentioned cable difference from Drop to full HD650 .... HD650 being better cable. May want to check ?


Actually the 6XXs have a better cable than both the 650s and the "older" 600s (which had a really bad cable, most people swap them for 650 cables).


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## scoringdreams

I think the Audeze LCD-X is quite a contestable alternative  - add Sonarworks for some magic!

Love the DT880, but the treble might not be suited for some.

Also, if you have patience, I would want to wait and see (or check with) Neumann to see if an NDH 20 open-back version is in the works? - or perhaps an HD800S clone if we consider how some technology was ported over from Sennheiser to Neumann (both the same parent company if I am not mistaken).


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## Heartii

I mix all my song with couple of HD600 and AKG K702 / K272 HD, it works very well.


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## ryans

Instrugramm said:


> I NEVER use the 600s for music listening, as the analytical Nature only elevates female voices, the rest sounds harsh and brittle to my ear.



Yeah I can concur.. HD600 do tend to bring out vocals very well, I think due to a upper-mid peak around 4-6k... which could be a problem in some cases...

Can't really agree on the harshness.. harsh is the last word I would use to describe this headphone, I find the highs on the 600s incredibly smooth to my ear (can luckily still hear 19.5 kHz).. and not distorted, grainy in any way.

BUT I see/hear where you're coming from.. the upper mid peak is there, and this could be described as harsh... 

Ryan


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## Instrugramm

ryans said:


> Yeah I can concur.. HD600 do tend to bring out vocals very well, I think due to a upper-mid peak around 4-6k... which could be a problem in some cases...
> 
> Can't really agree on the harshness.. harsh is the last word I would use to describe this headphone, I find the highs on the 600s incredibly smooth to my ear (can luckily still hear 19.5 kHz).. and not distorted, grainy in any way.
> 
> BUT I see/hear where you're coming from.. the upper mid peak is there, and this could be described as harsh...
> 
> Ryan


Maybe harsh was the wrong word, but they're just not as smooth than my other headphones. If we still compare the Sennheisers, then the 58X is creamier (with comparable vocal clarity) and the 6XX is thick and warm, covering small nasty details. 

Listening to Joep Beving on 600s will make you notice every creaking of the piano or his chair, so it's great for analytical work but also highly distracting when you actually want to enjoy the music.


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## sostenuto

Being lured back to HD600 ..... but for much different reasons. Definitely aging ears and need best /affordable Open-Back Fones to provide most 'home studio' Mixing help ( supplemental to Yamaha Powered monitors ). 
Will not get future chances as 'time marches on' and now considering even Beyerdynamics DT1990 Pro, as well. 
Diminishing returns surely apply here, and no solid basis for choosing at $300. up to $400.+ 
Will drive with Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 (3rd Gen) or dedicated HDfone Amp ..... as needed.

Any advices for this very personal home studio need (Orchestral / Piano / +) ? 
Many hours daily and hoping for some improvement.


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## Vin

barteredbride said:


> Soooo....now I´m confused!
> 
> I was set on getting some HD600s for mixing, but if it misses low bass frequencies, what can I do?
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any headphones like the HD600, but with bass detail?



All of the headphones mentioned here are more than capable for mixing. There aren't perfectly flat flawless headphones - that's where software like Sonarworks correction comes in handy. Pair DT 880 Pro, HD600/650, AKGs, Audezes or any quality open-back cans with Sonarworks and a good crossfeed plugin such as *this* and you're good to go.


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## Thundercat

Tim_Wells said:


> Are the Drop Sennheiser HD6xx 100% equivalent to the Sennheiser HD650s? I ask because I would want to use them with Sonarworks and if there were small differences, it may throw the calibration off.


Sennheiser made the Drop HD6xx.

Other than the change in color and cable, they are the exact same headphones.

I just bought them and I love them. Never had the experience before of wondering if the sound was actually in the room as opposed to in the headphones. They are that good, to me.

I use with the SonarWorks.


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## Instrugramm

sostenuto said:


> Being lured back to HD600 ..... but for much different reasons. Definitely aging ears and need best /affordable Open-Back Fones to provide most 'home studio' Mixing help ( supplemental to Yamaha Powered monitors ).
> Will not get future chances as 'time marches on' and now considering even Beyerdynamics DT1990 Pro, as well.
> Diminishing returns surely apply here, and no solid basis for choosing at $300. up to $400.+
> Will drive with Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 (3rd Gen) or dedicated HDfone Amp ..... as needed.
> 
> Any advices for this very personal home studio need (Orchestral / Piano / +) ?
> Many hours daily and hoping for some improvement.


Even if you want to go all out with money the HD600s are imho the best for the job really, as for an amp, I'd either get the Magni Heresy (best bang for the buck) or (again if budget is no problem) the Drop THX AAA 789.


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## Thundercat

Side question: is driving Senheiser HD6xx with an Apogee Quartet headphone out acceptable? I hadn't really considered buying a separate headphone amp, but if the Quartet's amp is decent I won't worry about it.

Thx


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## sostenuto

Thundercat said:


> Side question: is driving Senheiser HD6xx with an Apogee Quartet headphone out acceptable? I hadn't really considered buying a separate headphone amp, but if the Quartet's amp is decent I won't worry about it.
> 
> Thx



Not knowledgeable to advise, BUT many searches and communications with 'theoretically' solid resources. One confusing discussion dealt with 'mastered' audio sources versus (my scenario) monitoring DAW recording, processing, editing, mixing, etc. , versus audiophile 'listening'. 
Was left with uneasiness that many HDfone dac/preamp/amp solutions are not 'ideal' for this studio work. 
One capable source steered me away from 'tube' amps due to 'coloring' of sound when goal is studio headphone performance to supplement studio monitors. ( eg. Magni 3+ vs Vali or Valhalla _ for Beyer DT880 Pro ) 


Would truly like to get professional comments on this aspect of Studio /DAW Headphone sources ! Leaves much confusion per @ Thundercat inquiry. Was assuming Audio I/F would be fine; now unsure. 
Drop THX AAA 789 mentioned earlier, has tube and perhaps not best for studio application ????


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## Instrugramm

Thundercat said:


> Side question: is driving Senheiser HD6xx with an Apogee Quartet headphone out acceptable? I hadn't really considered buying a separate headphone amp, but if the Quartet's amp is decent I won't worry about it.
> 
> Thx


Highly doubt it, maybe the 58Xs but the 6XXs definitely need an amp.


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## SupremeFist

Instrugramm said:


> Highly doubt it, maybe the 58Xs but the 6XXs definitely need an amp.


Not here they don't. (Audient id14.)


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## Instrugramm

SupremeFist said:


> Not here they don't. (Audient id14.)


6XXs are highly amp dependent and scale better than most other headphones. They can be driven loud enough with most sources but they'll be veiled and will offer less detail. The 600s are less problematic in that sense.

Maybe you're right, you'd probably have to a-b test with a dedicated amp to notice, some people are perfectly happy with actually underpowered 650s, I'm quite a pedantic audiophile tbh... 




Ps. The 6XXs/ 650s were the reason why people were complaining about the famous Sennheiser veil as far as I know. (Back in the day a decent amp to power them was really expensive.)


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## sostenuto

SupremeFist said:


> Not here they don't. (Audient id14.)



Adds to my posted concerns ! Intended solution has been Focusrite Scarlett 4I4 - 3rd Gen. Currently use older Senn(s) with Saffire Pro 14(s) and no volume problem ..... but what about other goals of supplementing studio monitors due to hearing (hi-freq fall-off) issues ?? 
Alternative was Clarett 2Pre USB, but still unsure vs Schiit Magni 3+ (for example). 
Audient iD4 is under consideration as well.


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## Thundercat

Instrugramm said:


> Yup, definitely needed, commented on that fact in another thread on here, I d' suggest getting the Magni 3+ or the Heresy by Shiit.


Would you say a dedicated amp in addition to the Apogee Quartet headphone output? It's a pretty high quality unit overall, but I don't know about the headphone amp within...

Thx


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## Thundercat

Instrugramm said:


> Ps. The 6XXs/ 650s were the reason why people were complaining about the famous Sennheiser veil as far as I know. (Back in the day a decent amp to power them was really expensive.)


In my research the "veil" referred to early versions of the headphones; not whether they were driven by an amp. Supposedly the newer ones are better and clearer and that issue is gone...


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## Instrugramm

Thundercat said:


> In my research the "veil" referred to early versions of the headphones; not whether they were driven by an amp. Supposedly the newer ones are better and clearer and that issue is gone...


The earlier HD 600s had a darker tone if I'm not mistaken (black driver) but the veil is a result of poor amplification. It's best to test in all honesty but I guarantee, that 650s will sound ok on a cheap amp, great on an expensive amp and even better on a really expensive one.

The 600s seem easier to handle because the mids and bass are less pronounced. I wouldn't drive any of my headphones over the interface but then again I'm the kind of person who wants to buy 900 dollar headphones and thinks about getting Stax, so my expectations may be different from yours...


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## sostenuto

Instrugramm said:


> The earlier HD 600s had a darker tone if I'm not mistaken (black driver) but the veil is a result of poor amplification. It's best to test in all honesty but I guarantee, that 650s will sound ok on a cheap amp, great on an expensive amp and even better on a really expensive one.
> 
> The 600s seem easier to handle because the mids and bass are less pronounced. I wouldn't drive any of my headphones over the interface but then again I'm the kind of person who wants to buy 900 dollar headphones and thinks about getting Stax, so my expectations may be different from yours...



Are you stating this as also applying equally to Studio /DAW scenarios with more audio transient content (unmastered) and goal of accuracy vs pleasing audiophile listening ... including genre preferences ?? These differences in daily application remain uncertain as choices are being made.


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## SupremeFist

Instrugramm said:


> 6XXs are highly amp dependent and scale better than most other headphones. They can be driven loud enough with most sources but they'll be veiled and will offer less detail. The 600s are less problematic in that sense.


I don't understand the actual electronics theory so maybe I am missing something but if my interface can drive the 6XX to hearing-damaging volume (which it can), in what sense could they still be somehow "underpowered"?


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## Instrugramm

SupremeFist said:


> I don't understand the actual electronics theory so maybe I am missing something but if my interface can drive the 6XX to hearing-damaging volume (which it can), in what sense could they still be somehow "underpowered"?


There's amp scaling in general, again a question of which headphone and amp you use in combination. And then there's the additional problem, that amps rarely scale in volume in a linear fashion, it's actually quite complicated. If you want an ideally flat response you might really want to get a THX certificated amp (drop 789, or smsl sp200). They're the most "linear" ones.


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## Instrugramm

sostenuto said:


> Are you stating this as also applying equally to Studio /DAW scenarios with more audio transient content (unmastered) and goal of accuracy vs pleasing audiophile listening ... including genre preferences ?? These differences in daily application remain uncertain as choices are being made.


Mostly yes, but then again mastering is always approximation, you can "reference" music (with other tracks of music you like) on your headphones and then mix accordingly and sometimes hearing every detail isn't vital as you need to keep in mind, that most people won't listen in lossless FLAC on 1000 dollar headphones and 1000 dollar amps...^^


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## sostenuto

Some of


Instrugramm said:


> Mostly yes, but then again mastering is always approximation, you can "reference" music (with other tracks of music you like) on your headphones and then mix accordingly and sometimes hearing every detail isn't vital as you need to keep in mind, that most people won't listen in lossless FLAC on 1000 dollar headphones and 1000 dollar amps...^^



For sure ! But one 'trusted' source left me uncomfortable with one solution I use; which is Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 (Firewire) driving NAD Integrated Stereo Amp ( C 356BEE ) and using its Headphone output rather than Saffire Pro 14's. This still in DAW /Studio setting, not for audiophile pleasure listening.


----------



## Instrugramm

sostenuto said:


> Some of
> 
> For sure ! But one 'trusted' source left me uncomfortable with one solution I use; which is Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 (Firewire) driving NAD Integrated Stereo Amp ( C 356BEE ) and using its Headphone output rather than Saffire Pro 14's. This still in DAW /Studio setting, not for audiophile pleasure listening.


It's a lot about experimenting tbh. Check your mixes on as many sources as possible, export them in different formats, listen to them on headphones, monitors and on a phone for example.

In my experience a good solid state amp with HD600s (without Sonarworks) yielded the best results in general but your mileage may vary.


----------



## Thundercat

Instrugramm said:


> It's a lot about experimenting tbh. Check your mixes on as many sources as possible, export them in different formats, listen to them on headphones, monitors and on a phone for example.
> 
> In my experience a good solid state amp with HD600s (without Sonarworks) yielded the best results in general but your mileage may vary.


A question then - my Apogee Quartet has a 1/4" headphone out, and 1/4" speaker outs. Nothing else.

Would I use the Quartet headphone out to the headphone amp in? If I was to get the Heresy, this is RCA plugs (yikes!). I can't imagine using the speaker outs...

In this scenario I'm still using the Apogee internal headphone amp. Then I'd have 2 volume controls, one on the Quartet, and one on the Heresy. Somethings seems amiss here...

Thx,

Mike


----------



## Blakus

I really love my HD600s. They’re the first headphones I’ve had that I feel I could work on confidently. Switching between my tuned ATC monitoring setup and these headphones feels remarkably familiar. I don’t find them forgiving at all and are often a great reality check for me in the mids/highs. 

p.s. imo, don’t use sonar works with these. It really messes things up. I do however place a small bass boost on them with my RME totalmix software.


----------



## sostenuto

Blakus said:


> I really love my HD600s. They’re the first headphones I’ve had that I feel I could work on confidently. Switching between my tuned ATC monitoring setup and these headphones feels remarkably familiar. I don’t find them forgiving at all and are often a great reality check for me in the mids/highs.
> 
> p.s. imo, don’t use sonar works with these. It really messes things up. I do however place a small bass boost on them with my RME totalmix software.



THX for this. Clearly each HD600 User will need to sort their specific Audio I/F or HDfone Amp to be comfortable with capability to drive them optimally. This remains a concern, as fairly notable $$$ can be invested in one or more solutions. It will be a much simpler solution, for many, if their studio I/F can be trusted to also drive HD600 (or other HDfones) correctly.


----------



## barteredbride

One more question...can SonarWorks be calibrated to also auto correct my terrible orchestration and writing too ??


----------



## Thundercat

sostenuto said:


> THX for this. Clearly each HD600 User will need to sort their specific Audio I/F or HDfone Amp to be comfortable with capability to drive them optimally. This remains a concern, as fairly notable $$$ can be invested in one or more solutions. It will be a much simpler solution, for many, if their studio I/F can be trusted to also drive HD600 (or other HDfones) correctly.


They do drive them "correctly" - you will hear good sound from them using your computer audio interface.

What others are saying is you will hear more and more clearly with dedicated amps...so it's a game of diminishing returns proportionate to money spent.

I already spent $725 on a used Apogee Quartet and the sound is decent on my HD6xx's. I can drop another $100 on a Schiit Heresy and from what people here are saying, the sound will improve.

Beyond that, more money spent will offer diminishing gains, and it's just up to each one of us where we stop...


----------



## sostenuto

Well stated, and understand your points clearly. Diminishing returns is the obvious factor, and I am not making sense asking yes/no .... blk/wht questions. :(
BTW, I did inquire with Schiit Audio and moved starting point to Magni 3+ ..... ymmv. 

When it comes to scaling and related topics, sorting internals of Audio I/F(s) versus dedicated HDfone amps is not yet in my repertoire. 

Regards


----------



## Thundercat

sostenuto said:


> Well stated, and understand your points clearly. Diminishing returns is the obvious factor, and I am not making sense asking yes/no .... blk/wht questions. :(
> BTW, I did inquire with Schiit Audio and moved starting point to Magni 3+ ..... ymmv.
> 
> When it comes to scaling and related topics, sorting internals of Audio I/F(s) versus dedicated HDfone amps is not yet in my repertoire.
> 
> Regards


Strangely, the Heresy is the same price as the Magni 3+, yet they say the Heresy is supposed to be better...Not quite getting their marketing here...


----------



## sostenuto

Thundercat said:


> Strangely, the Heresy is the same price as the Magni 3+, yet they say the Heresy is supposed to be better...Not quite getting their marketing here...



If I recall, Hersey is Op-Amp. and Black & Red ! 3+ is all discrete.

" Choose Magni 3+ for the ultimate expression of an affordable all-discrete current-feedback headphone amp. It’s now seriously like a mini speaker amp, right down to the driver stage and Vbe multiplier. Magni 3+ is in our traditional silver and gray chassis.
Choose Magni Heresy for insanely great measurements from an all-op-amp based headphone amp that uses super high quality parts, including a multiple paralleled output stage with feedforward. Magni Heresy is in a black and red chassis.
Both amps sound fantastic. You really can’t make a wrong choice. "

This straight from Website. Right now, considering JOTUNHEIM as well. Schiit has been darn good about e-mails in recent days. This cable was also recommended when I asked about connection with Audio I/F hookup.


----------



## Thundercat

sostenuto said:


> If I recall, Hersey is Op-Amp. and Black & Red ! 3+ is all discrete.
> 
> " Choose Magni 3+ for the ultimate expression of an affordable all-discrete current-feedback headphone amp. It’s now seriously like a mini speaker amp, right down to the driver stage and Vbe multiplier. Magni 3+ is in our traditional silver and gray chassis.
> Choose Magni Heresy for insanely great measurements from an all-op-amp based headphone amp that uses super high quality parts, including a multiple paralleled output stage with feedforward. Magni Heresy is in a black and red chassis.
> Both amps sound fantastic. You really can’t make a wrong choice. "
> 
> This straight from Website. Right now, considering JOTUNHEIM as well. Schiit has been darn good about e-mails in recent days. This cable was also recommended when I asked about connection with Audio I/F hookup.



Thank you.

the distinction is completely lost on me. I don’t really understand what’s different about them. Are op-amps better/different sounding?


----------



## marius_dm

HD600 user here. I’m driving them straight from a Profire 2626 headphone out and they sound fine to me, they get extremely loud. Honestly, loudness is the most important reason you might want a separate amp. They really are kind of low when driven from my iPhone even when the volume is maxed out.


----------



## Instrugramm

Thundercat said:


> A question then - my Apogee Quartet has a 1/4" headphone out, and 1/4" speaker outs. Nothing else.
> 
> Would I use the Quartet headphone out to the headphone amp in? If I was to get the Heresy, this is RCA plugs (yikes!). I can't imagine using the speaker outs...
> 
> In this scenario I'm still using the Apogee internal headphone amp. Then I'd have 2 volume controls, one on the Quartet, and one on the Heresy. Somethings seems amiss here...
> 
> Thx,
> 
> Mike


You d'have to use the line out of your Interface, as the headphone amp would already "amp" the signal thus ruining the signal path for the dedicated amp. The Volume of the Dac/ Interface should always be on full as well as the actual sound source, volume control should be left to the last member of the chain (so in this case the headphone amp).

Ps. Maybe you should get the headphones first and then decide if you need the amp, if I wouldn't have listened to high-end equipment I'd probably live a happier life, plenty of people are perfectly ok with barely adequately driven mid-fi headphones, you can always upgrade later on.


----------



## Instrugramm

marius_dm said:


> HD600 user here. I’m driving them straight from a Profire 2626 headphone out and they sound fine to me, they get extremely loud. Honestly, loudness is the most important reason you might want a separate amp. They really are kind of low when driven from my iPhone even when the volume is maxed out.


As I said 600s also don't really have that "veil" and are easier driven, that mainly applies to the 6XXs, although 600s do also scale with nice amps, it's just less noticeable.


----------



## Thundercat

marius_dm said:


> Honestly, loudness is the most important reason you might want a separate amp.


I don’t think that’s quite right - it’s not about volume. It’s about the quality of the sound.


----------



## David Kudell

Thundercat said:


> Would you say a dedicated amp in addition to the Apogee Quartet headphone output? It's a pretty high quality unit overall, but I don't know about the headphone amp within...
> 
> Thx


I have the Apogee Duet and HD6xx. i found it loud enough until I turned on Sonarworks...since it loses around 6-8db, it was too quiet. So now I feed my Duet into a small Mackie mixer which gets much louder via its headphone amp.

(also, with the Apogee Duet it is plenty loud when listening to normal music, but when composing, sometimes when you’re writing a soft piece or adding a flute part, you just need more volume.

Also, by the way, I used to run my Apogee Duet into a Schiit headphone amp, and didn’t notice any improvement in sound quality. Louder, yes, but clearer no.)


----------



## Thundercat

David Kudell said:


> I have the Apogee Duet and HD6xx. i found it loud enough until I turned on Sonarworks...since it loses around 6-8db, it was too quiet. So now I feed my Duet into a small Mackie mixer which gets much louder via its headphone amp.
> 
> (also, with the Apogee Duet it is plenty loud when listening to normal music, but when composing, sometimes when you’re writing a soft piece or adding a flute part, you just need more volume.
> 
> Also, by the way, I used to run my Apogee Duet into a Schiit headphone amp, and didn’t notice any improvement in sound quality. Louder, yes, but clearer no.)


Most excellent information. Thank-you.

Again, the purpose of an external amp isn't for volume only, although that is an effect; it's normally to create a better sound stage, imaging, punch, bass extension, etc. From what you're sharing it doesn't sound like you experienced a sonic improvement.

It could be that the Apogee headphone amps are already pretty good...

Thx again!


----------



## Instrugramm

David Kudell said:


> I have the Apogee Duet and HD6xx. i found it loud enough until I turned on Sonarworks...since it loses around 6-8db, it was too quiet. So now I feed my Duet into a small Mackie mixer which gets much louder via its headphone amp.
> 
> (also, with the Apogee Duet it is plenty loud when listening to normal music, but when composing, sometimes when you’re writing a soft piece or adding a flute part, you just need more volume.
> 
> Also, by the way, I used to run my Apogee Duet into a Schiit headphone amp, and didn’t notice any improvement in sound quality. Louder, yes, but clearer no.)


Well to be absolutely honest the Shiits are budget amps and apart from the new Magni3+ and the Heresy they didn't come out with anything I would have advised anyone to get. (The Heresy is also their very first op amp so you cannot really compare it to anything they've brought out before.)

Those 2 do however beat all of the competition in the low price region, you d' surely notice a difference on a RebelAmp class A or a THX 789 as it colors tone the least (at 3-4x the price). Also keep in mind, that most DACs and Interfaces actually color the tone as well. (Although I guess the Apogee should be "neutral".)


----------



## Instrugramm

Thundercat said:


> Most excellent information. Thank-you.
> 
> Again, the purpose of an external amp isn't for volume only, although that is an effect; it's normally to create a better sound stage, imaging, punch, bass extension, etc. From what you're sharing it doesn't sound like you experienced a sonic improvement.
> 
> It could be that the Apogee headphone amps are already pretty good...
> 
> Thx again!


The Heresy on high gain definitely gives the feeling of a widened soundstage, while low gain is absolutely stale. Not every Shiit is the same, the Heresy measures much better than everything they've offered in their Magni range before. People also are in agreement that the Heresy seems to match up better with Sennheiser headphones than the Magni 3+ does. (The Heresy seems to be the more analytical of the 2 due to its op amp structure, all of the other Shiit offerings are discrete amps.)

There will definitely be a sonic improvement if you buy a decent amp but it will depend on the amp and on the headphones as to how big the gap will be.

I'm sure the Apogee's amps aren't half bad so yes decide on a headphone and get the amp later if needed.


----------



## David Kudell

Apogee was high end since back in the day. As an assistant sound editor in LA in the early 2000’s, I loaded the dialog for lots of big movies from 1/4” tape through an Apogee A-D converter.

I have no doubt the headphone output is high quality. Whatever amp you end up getting, I’d just recommend getting something you can return if you don’t notice a difference.


----------



## Thundercat

Well, I’m not the OP, and right now I don’t need to/shouldn’t just spend money just cause, so I’ll wait. I might try it out in the future tho. Let’s get through this damned virus crap first...

thx for your insights.


----------



## shomynik

Blakus said:


> I really love my HD600s. They’re the first headphones I’ve had that I feel I could work on confidently. Switching between my tuned ATC monitoring setup and these headphones feels remarkably familiar. I don’t find them forgiving at all and are often a great reality check for me in the mids/highs.
> 
> p.s. imo, don’t use sonar works with these. It really messes things up. I do however place a small bass boost on them with my RME totalmix software.


The average curve that SW introduces to HD600 is very minimal. The most it does is in the bass department, everything else is just so slight, minimal comparing to other headphones' SW curves.

May I ask, what did you find that SW messess so much with HD600?

I like what it does in the low-end and for that it makes sense to me to keep it. Do you think it messess with he rest too much?


----------



## Instrugramm

shomynik said:


> The average curve that SW introduces to HD600 is very minimal. The most it does is in the bass department, everything else is just so slight, minimal comparing to other headphones' SW curves.
> 
> May I ask, what did you find that SW messess so much with HD600?
> 
> I like what it does in the low-end and for that it makes sense to me to keep it. Do you think it messess with he rest too much?


Especially when used in conjunction with can opener the software introduced some problems when using stuff like Dear VR Pro or with some reverbs (Spaces II being one of them) as well as compression. It was notably giving bad info on the placing of the instruments, cut out some frequencies which would have revealed flaws and even messed with one frequency that sounded absolutely different on all of my other sources.

I'd recommend using correction software on other headphones but HD600s are really good for mixing right off the bat.


----------



## scoringdreams

barteredbride said:


> One more question...can SonarWorks be calibrated to also auto correct my terrible orchestration and writing too ??



Sonarworks Sonja is here for you!


----------



## scoringdreams

Vin said:


> All of the headphones mentioned here are more than capable for mixing. There aren't perfectly flat flawless headphones - that's where software like Sonarworks correction comes in handy. Pair DT 880 Pro, HD600/650, AKGs, Audezes or any quality open-back cans with Sonarworks and a good crossfeed plugin such as *this* and you're good to go.



I noticed you recommended a software called CanOpener Studio as part of a Sonarworks chain. Not too technically-versed myself, but would you be able to explain how a crossfeed algorithm can improve things?


----------



## Vin

scoringdreams said:


> I noticed you recommended a software called CanOpener Studio as part of a Sonarworks chain. Not too technically-versed myself, but would you be able to explain how a crossfeed algorithm can improve things?



Sure thing - crossfeed plugins such as CanOpener Studio emulate the effect that happens when you're mixing on speakers. It's very subtle in the beginning but after you use it for some time you notice immediately when it's off.

To quote this paragraph from one post:


> The width of the stereo image—the inter-aural crosstalk—is the main thing that differentiates headphone monitoring from speaker monitoring. In the phones, there is _no_ inter-aural crosstalk—the left and right drivers in each ear cup are right up against the corresponding ear, so the left ear does hear only the left signal, and the right ear hears only the right.



More in-depth about that https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/learn/speakers-vs-headphones-with-canopener/ (here).


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Bought a new pair of HD 600 this week, as I have been procrastinating for a long time with an upgrade. I was using a pair or AKG K121 for years, which I knew well. I was a little nervous about what to expect, but the HD 600 are wonderful. Not only comfortable to wear (for me, anyways), but the sound is very neutral and crystal clear. I highly recommend!


----------



## sostenuto

Wolfie2112 said:


> Bought a new pair of HD 600 this week, as I have been procrastinating for a long time with an upgrade. I was using a pair or AKG K121 for years, which I knew well. I was a little nervous about what to expect, but the HD 600 are wonderful. Not only comfortable to wear (for me, anyways), but the sound is very neutral and crystal clear. I highly recommend!



Helpful to see this post. Older Senn HD497 to replace. Several trusted messages and posts pulling me between Senn HD600 and Beyer DT 880 Pro / Premium ( 250 / 600 ohm ) . Notable cost difference so DT 880 was winning. Now, not so sure ..... again 
..... usage is heavy, daily Home Studio DAW apps via Focusrite I/F (possibly dedicated HDfone amp), No audiophile /casual listening need.

THX & Enjoy !


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

sostenuto said:


> Beyer DT 880 Pro



These were my second choice! Since I was unable to physically demo headphones in my local store (for obvious reasons), I was going purely on internet reviews. I’m sure they also sound good, but concluded the HD 600 are more neutral. The Beyer’s definitely look comfy, though.


----------



## Thundercat

sostenuto said:


> Helpful to see this post. Older Senn HD497 to replace. Several trusted messages and posts pulling me between Senn HD600 and Beyer DT 880 Pro / Premium ( 250 / 600 ohm ) . Notable cost difference so DT 880 was winning. Now, not so sure ..... again
> ..... usage is heavy, daily Home Studio DAW apps via Focusrite I/F (possibly dedicated HDfone amp), No audiophile /casual listening need.
> 
> THX & Enjoy !


Hate to say it but...you'd probably be happy with either one! I think they are both very well regarded.


----------



## Instrugramm

sostenuto said:


> Helpful to see this post. Older Senn HD497 to replace. Several trusted messages and posts pulling me between Senn HD600 and Beyer DT 880 Pro / Premium ( 250 / 600 ohm ) . Notable cost difference so DT 880 was winning. Now, not so sure ..... again
> ..... usage is heavy, daily Home Studio DAW apps via Focusrite I/F (possibly dedicated HDfone amp), No audiophile /casual listening need.
> 
> THX & Enjoy !


The DT880s are not as neutral as the 600s (too much treble but somehow not as detailed as the 1990s), they actually measure worse than 650s which again aren't ideal for mixing in my experience (although I use those on my Clavinova CLP 470 for monitoring as stated before).

I'm rather thinking of getting maybe a pair as another flavour because they're really inexpensive and the Tesla Driver has a certain character. I'm however that they need a good amount of correction for prefessional work. (if that's your goal)









Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro Studio Headphone Review - Sonarworks Blog


DT 880 Pro - suited for producing, mixing & mastering. High-quality headphones that offer a solid build, great comfort, and great price. Read full review




www.sonarworks.com





Here's the Sonarworks review... although I'd love to see their rating on the 600s. I don't really trust them anymore as they actually advise people to get 650s over everything else, which seems odd as apparently the Neumann's are said to be better for the job but I've never heard the NDH 20s myself, so I won't advise to get them.


----------



## sostenuto

Instrugramm said:


> The DT880s are not as neutral as the 600s (too much treble but somehow not as detailed as the 1990s), they actually measure worse than 650s which again aren't ideal for mixing in my experience (although I use those on my Clavinova CLP 470 for monitoring as stated before).
> 
> I'm rather thinking of getting maybe a pair as another flavour because they're really inexpensive and the Tesla Driver has a certain character. I'm however that they need a good amount of correction for prefessional work. (if that's your goal)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro Studio Headphone Review - Sonarworks Blog
> 
> 
> DT 880 Pro - suited for producing, mixing & mastering. High-quality headphones that offer a solid build, great comfort, and great price. Read full review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sonarworks.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the Sonarworks review... although I'd love to see their rating on the 600s. I don't really trust them anymore as they actually advise people to get 650s over everything else, which seems odd as apparently the Neumann's are said to be better for the job but I've never heard the NDH 20s myself, so I won't advise to get them.



Yeh .... this caught my attention as well. Really being careful quoting or referencing personal (email) from professional sources, yet one has commented specifically re. HD600 & DT880 Premium (600ohm) and favors 880 for my studio needs .. driven by dedicated HDfone amp. 

Ha! Of course (600 ohm) kinda pushes me to the HDfone Amp ... right 

Not truly stressing over this. Actually a bit amused by the supposedly 'technical' mumbo-jumbo.

HD600 almost 2X cost of 880 Premium, so relaxing and thinking thru carefully. 

Appreciate the ongoing discussion here, as many relevant details raised !


----------



## sostenuto

Thundercat said:


> Hate to say it but...you'd probably be happy with either one! I think they are both very well regarded.



No way here, either, to audition or A/B. For best result, should consider both and write off cost to 'learning' with my own system and ears. Agree, either one will sound better than existing fones, and will then wonder if the other will be even better. 
One positive note ..... _both_ will cost less than upper tier options! (DT1990 Pro or HD800 S).


----------



## Instrugramm

sostenuto said:


> No way here, either, to audition or A/B. For best result, should consider both and write off cost to 'learning' with my own system and ears. Agree, either one will sound better than existing fones, and will then wonder if the other will be even better.
> One positive note ..... _both_ will cost less than upper tier options! (DT1990 Pro or HD800 S).


Well yes, though the HD800 S' would not be ideal for mixing anyway. As for the DT1990s, they're great (in a technical way even better than 600s) but I d'still pick the 600s over them (can't put my finger on why, there's something off with them whenever I hear them, maybe they're a bit too sharp for my taste).

I'm about to get my 8th pair of over-ear headphones and really the only reason I'm going to buy the Ether CXs is because I still want the best closed back cans for monitoring and mixing, in my mind 600s are the end game for open mix headphones, no matter the price. I'll probably still buy lots of headphones but for studio usage I could get by with the 58Xs (felt mod+ Sonarworks + Can Opener) and the 600s only.

I'd rather put the 600s against the 1990s, 880s don't offer as much natural neutrality, those would likely go up against 650s or 6xx in my book which would make them a nice hybrid of neutrality and fun. Buy one good neutral headphone and you'll be good in that regard, just be warned that once you start diving into the audiophile game you'll probably start to have an itch for things like broader soundstage, pin point imaging, great sub bass etc. and might plunge into the differences between dynamic, planar and electrostatic cans.

These experiences may in turn train your ears and help you get more musical in the long run. It's a fun world, I would love to just invite people to listen to modded 58Xs all day, to see how they rediscover music.


----------



## Tim_Wells

Instrugramm said:


> Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro Studio Headphone Review - Sonarworks Blog
> 
> 
> DT 880 Pro - suited for producing, mixing & mastering. High-quality headphones that offer a solid build, great comfort, and great price. Read full review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sonarworks.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the Sonarworks review... although I'd love to see their rating on the 600s. I don't really trust them anymore as they actually advise people to get 650s over everything else, which seems odd as apparently the Neumann's are said to be better for the job but I've never heard the NDH 20s myself, so I won't advise to get them.


I think the top reviews that Sonarworks gave to both the HD 650s and the 880 Pros are based on how they react to their calibration software and not necessarily how they sound out of the box.

Also, I think we need to be careful about putting too much weight on one or two peoples strong opinions about what headphones sound the best. We all have our biases that may or may not be based in science.


----------



## sostenuto

Tim_Wells said:


> I think the top reviews that Sonarworks gave to both the HD 650s and the 880 Pros are based on how they react to their calibration software and not necessarily how they sound out of the box.
> 
> Also, I think we need to be careful about putting too much weight on one or two peoples strong opinions about what headphones sound the best. We all have our biases that may or may not be based in science.



' .... how they react to their calibration software .... ' crossed mind here as well. So many factors enter in tho. 

Procrastination takes its toll, and HD600 min price just jumped from $300. to $400. That hurts _ but my bad for hesitating. Just ordered DT880 Premium 600 ohm as some advise 'smoother response' (whatever that translates to ...). 
Likely adding Schiit Asgard 3 today to drive them. ( Drop + THX AAA 789 & S.M.S.L SP200 also on short list ). 

Many thanks to all for helping !


----------



## ryans

sostenuto said:


> Just ordered DT880 Premium 600 ohm



I think you're going to enjoy those  

After some minimal EQ to tame some of the highs... I love these headphones!

Ryan


----------



## Jeremy Spencer

Just finished an entire day of mixing with the HD 600's. I literally forgot they were on, and for the first time ever, I did not experience any fatigue.


----------



## Blakus

Blakus said:


> I really love my HD600s. They’re the first headphones I’ve had that I feel I could work on confidently. Switching between my tuned ATC monitoring setup and these headphones feels remarkably familiar. I don’t find them forgiving at all and are often a great reality check for me in the mids/highs.
> 
> p.s. imo, don’t use sonar works with these. It really messes things up. I do however place a small bass boost on them with my RME totalmix software.


Umm. This is awkward. Just realised I was talking about the HD800s. Sorry.


----------



## Jdiggity1

Blakus said:


> Umm. This is awkward. Just realised I was talking about the HD800s. Sorry.


Dammit. I just ordered two of them!


----------



## Thundercat

Jdiggity1 said:


> Dammit. I just ordered two of them!


I can't comment on the 600s except to say many here seem to prefer them. I myself have the 6xx and I'm happy with them. I'm sure you'll be happy anyway.


----------



## Bear Market

Blakus said:


> Umm. This is awkward. Just realised I was talking about the HD800s. Sorry.



I've had my eyes on a pair of HD800S for a while. Do you drive them with a dedicated amp? Do you use any crossfeed software?


----------



## Monkberry

Ordered a new pair of HD600s and a Little Labs Monotor to drive them. I'll report back next week after I spend some time on them. I'm going from an RME Babyface with AT M50s so I have no doubt they will be an upgrade.


----------



## Tim_Wells

sostenuto said:


> Procrastination takes its toll, and HD600 min price just jumped from $300. to $400.


I've noticed that too. What's the deal with prices jumping lately? I assume it's related to supply-chain issues from the Coronavirus.


----------



## Monkberry

Tim_Wells said:


> I've noticed that too. What's the deal with prices jumping lately? I assume it's related to supply-chain issues from the Coronavirus.


Sweetwater and B&H Photo still have them at $300 but they're not in stock, they're on order. If you purchase they will obviously hold to that price. I must have just got in under the wire. I ordered from Amazon for $300 because all others were out of stock.


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## Monkberry

Just a quick update, I finally received the HD 600s last night. These are replacing my Audio Technica M50s (original version) and needless to say, they are quite contrasting. The low end is the obvious standout. I am using these with the Little Labs Monotor headphone amp. Initially, with the HD 600s I was worried about the lack of bass frequencies in comparison with the M50s and also had to pull some high end EQ down on a few tracks I listened to. This morning I downloaded Sonarworks Reference 4 and once I applied the HD 600 profile, BOOM, I'm smiling! This is going to make mixing much less of a battle.


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## Mason

I ended up going for the Sennheiser HD600. It hasn’t arrived yet but I’m excited about how it’s going to perform with a Steinberg UR22 (?). If not so well, what amp should I get in order to match the 300 ohms on the HD600?

So a single stereo headphone amp and connect it to the Steinberg UR22.

I’ve been looking at the The Bravo Ocean. Would that do the job?


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## Jeremy Spencer

Mason said:


> I ended up going for the Sennheiser HD600. It hasn’t arrived yet but I’m excited about how it’s going to perform with a Steinberg UR22 (?). If not so well, what amp should I get in order to match the 300 ohms on the HD600?
> 
> So a single stereo headphone amp and connect it to the Steinberg UR22.
> 
> I’ve been looking at the The Bravo Ocean. Would that do the job?



No amp needed. I occasionally use my pair with a first generartion UR22, works great. Plenty of power.


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## shropshirelad

Check out Massdrop for their version of the Sennheisser 6XX.


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## Mason

Jeremy Spencer said:


> No amp needed. I occasionally use my pair with a first generartion UR22, works great. Plenty of power.



Thanks, that’s very good to hear!


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## Lazu

+1 for Sennheiser 6XX - best open all rounder for the price!


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## creativeforge

Monkberry said:


> Just a quick update, I finally received the HD 600s last night. These are replacing my Audio Technica M50s (original version) and needless to say, they are quite contrasting. The low end is the obvious standout. I am using these with the Little Labs Monotor headphone amp. Initially, with the HD 600s I was worried about the lack of bass frequencies in comparison with the M50s and also had to pull some high end EQ down on a few tracks I listened to. This morning I downloaded Sonarworks Reference 4 and once I applied the HD 600 profile, BOOM, I'm smiling! This is going to make mixing much less of a battle.



Interesting. I used the HD600 on a mix I sent to a studio for mixing. I also used a pair of AudioTechnica ATH40mfs, the HD600 (no amp, just straight out of a Saffire PRO 24 DSP), and Yams HS7 monitors. 

I mentioned that I find the mix too muddy. His reply was actually opposite: _"Dude this sounds very good! Big production and you did an excellent job on the mix. You don't need to send it anywhere to be mixed. I think we could just go back and forth with you sending me mixes and I suggest mix changes."_

I was confused by his reply. 

When you say BOOM: what changed that it is so different?

Thanks!


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## Monkberry

creativeforge said:


> Interesting. I used the HD600 on a mix I sent to a studio for mixing. I also used a pair of AudioTechnica ATH40mfs, the HD600 (no amp, just straight out of a Saffire PRO 24 DSP), and Yams HS7 monitors.
> 
> I mentioned that I find the mix too muddy. His reply was actually opposite: _"Dude this sounds very good! Big production and you did an excellent job on the mix. You don't need to send it anywhere to be mixed. I think we could just go back and forth with you sending me mixes and I suggest mix changes."_
> 
> I was confused by his reply.
> 
> When you say BOOM: what changed that it is so different?
> 
> Thanks!





creativeforge said:


> Interesting. I used the HD600 on a mix I sent to a studio for mixing. I also used a pair of AudioTechnica ATH40mfs, the HD600 (no amp, just straight out of a Saffire PRO 24 DSP), and Yams HS7 monitors.
> 
> I mentioned that I find the mix too muddy. His reply was actually opposite: _"Dude this sounds very good! Big production and you did an excellent job on the mix. You don't need to send it anywhere to be mixed. I think we could just go back and forth with you sending me mixes and I suggest mix changes."_
> 
> I was confused by his reply.
> 
> When you say BOOM: what changed that it is so different?
> 
> Thanks!


I was referring to Sonarworks' Reference 4 HD600 correction curve which bumps up the low end EQ specifically for the HD600s. ATH M50's are closed ear and will display more low end in comparison to the HD600's and they would have a different curve but I didn't bother to set them up within Reference 4 as I much prefer using the Sennheisers for mixing.


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## storyteller

FWIW - I ordered a set of replacement pads directly from Sennheiser for my HD650s over a month ago and they still haven't shipped. It said "in stock" as well, but they notified me after the purchase that they were out of stock. I assume it is still a supply chain issue from Ol' Rona.


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## creativeforge

Monkberry said:


> I was referring to Sonarworks' Reference 4 HD600 correction curve which bumps up the low end EQ specifically for the HD600s. ATH M50's are closed ear and will display more low end in comparison to the HD600's and they would have a different curve but I didn't bother to set them up within Reference 4 as I much prefer using the Sennheisers for mixing.



Thanks for the reply. I'll take a look.


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## creativeforge

sostenuto said:


> Just ordered DT880 Premium 600 ohm as some advise 'smoother response' (whatever that translates to ...).


So, any update on your experience with these DT880 Premium 600?


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