# 2019 Mac Pro or mac studio ultra



## Nicksaya (Mar 10, 2022)

If you were able to get a 2019 max pro tower for around same price as ne Mac Studio ultra (which is stuck at 128 gigs of ram) which would u choose?


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## khollister (Mar 10, 2022)

How is the MP configured? Based on initial Geekbench scores, the M1Ultra will smoke even the 28 core MP in multicore and any M1 will smoke any MP in single core. And how large an internal SSD is in your comparison Studio?

You are basically trading off CPU performance, size & power consumption against expanding RAM > 128GB and adding higher performing NVMe SSD's beyond 8TB (PCIe vs TB). Personally, I don't think too many folks really need >128GB unless they insist on huge templates with nothing disabled or purged so it really leaves disk size/performance.

It also depends on how many plugins you have that are unlikely to be ported to Native (maybe isn't important in Logic or S1 which can run legacy AU's).

Unless you have a really niche edge case for the MP, I wouldn't even consider it regardless of how good a deal. $7000 for a fully loaded Ultra (128GB & 8TB) is a deal for the performance it offers compared to a few months ago. Adding high performance PCIe NVMe storage to the MP isn't exactly cheap either.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 10, 2022)

The 2019 is already yesterdays news. They will be hitting the used market soon and maybe some good values there. New macpro coming within a year thst will smoke the mac studio.


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## Prockamanisc (Mar 10, 2022)

There should have always been these 3 models. The 2013 Mac Pro would have been awesome if they didn't discontinue the PCIe expandable Mac Pro. So imagine that you're back in 2013 and you can purchase either a Mini, Studio, or Pro. Which one would you buy? If you want the expandability, then go with the tower.


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## Dewdman42 (Mar 10, 2022)

Also this is just the beginning of apple’s m1 ride. The same way that new iPhones and iPads come out every year, apple is going to hit us with a continual stream of updated apple silicon chips and ever improving macs for the foreseeable future. I suggest patience


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## Bender-offender (Mar 11, 2022)




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## edhamilton (Mar 11, 2022)

If the new Studio had 256g ram - I'd have gone for it.
But 128 still means a slave needed towards the end of bigger projects.

I expect the new tower Pro to be nose bleed pricing.
So maybe next years Studio with M2 chips maxing at 128 each = 258.

Just need to avoid all videos showing the track counts on the Studio ......


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## KEM (Mar 11, 2022)

Mac Studio duh, the cheese grater Mac Pro is a complete ripoff now


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## jblongz (Mar 11, 2022)

KEM said:


> Mac Studio duh, the cheese grater Mac Pro is a complete ripoff now


Such a crazy rip off since day 1, but I guess that was Apple's markup the markup on intel chips and other licensed tech. Mac Studio is a bit of a rip too, but less so.


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## KEM (Mar 11, 2022)

jblongz said:


> Such a crazy rip off since day 1, but I guess that was Apple's markup the markup on intel chips and other licensed tech. Mac Studio is a bit of a rip too, but less so.



Mac Studio is actually very competitively priced, the Mac Pro however is a massive ripoff and I honestly feel sorry for anyone that actually bought one


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## Nicksaya (Mar 14, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> The 2019 is already yesterdays news. They will be hitting the used market soon and maybe some good values there. New macpro coming within a year thst will smoke the mac studio.


I just asked one of the A list composers about this. His response was 
Its a great semi pro / affordable option.

You won’t see it showing up in John Powells rig anytime soon, if you know what I mean 
(Or mine)

On a budget, its great


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## artinro (Mar 14, 2022)

Nicksaya said:


> I just asked one of the A list composers about this. His response was
> Its a great semi pro / affordable option.
> 
> You won’t see it showing up in John Powells rig anytime soon, if you know what I mean
> ...


Not sure if I concur with the response you got. If you’re a Mac user, the studio is your current best power option…and it’s not particularly close in the performance department; the current Mac Pro is obsolete in comparison. If you’re an “A-list” composer and price doesn’t matter and you use Mac, you get this for a year and upgrade to the new Apple Silicon Mac Pro when it’s released. I doubt any A-listers don’t have at least one satellite machine.


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## Nicksaya (Mar 14, 2022)

I just don’t see those new ones lasting like the work horse towers. The hard drives are hardwired too. Can’t be self serviced.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 14, 2022)

Nicksaya said:


> I just don’t see those new ones lasting like the work horse towers. The hard drives are hardwired too. Can’t be self serviced.


Neither is my 2013 MacBook Pro, yet still going going strong for professional work nine years later. You can't go wrong with the Studio Ultra. Just get AppleCare for peace of mind.


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## Symfoniq (Mar 14, 2022)

I'm doing things with my 2019 Mac Pro that you can't do with the Mac Studio (more than 128 GB of RAM, more than 8 TB of storage, using multiple PCIe slots, etc.).

That said, I think the time to buy a 2019 Mac Pro was in 2019. Unless your current machine is dead in the water and you absolutely need a machine with the Mac Pro's expandability _today_, you should wait for the Apple Silicon Mac Pro.

And if you don't need more than 128 GB of RAM or PCIe slots, get the Mac Studio and call it good.


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## KEM (Mar 14, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Neither is my 2013 MacBook Pro, yet still going going strong for professional work nine years later. You can't go wrong with the Studio Ultra. Just get AppleCare for peace of mind.



And now that you can get AppleCare on a yearly basis there’s even MORE of an incentive as you can just keep renewing it for as long as you want


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## Jeremy Spencer (Mar 14, 2022)

KEM said:


> And now that you can get AppleCare on a yearly basis there’s even MORE of an incentive as you can just keep renewing it for as long as you want


Really? Thanks, I wasn't aware of this, very good to know! I'll definitely look into this once my 3-year plan expires. For me, it's all about peace of mind.


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## KEM (Mar 14, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Really? Thanks, I wasn't aware of this, very good to know! I'll definitely look into this once my 3-year plan expires. For me, it's all about peace of mind.



It was just released alongside the Mac Studio, they didn’t publicly announce it during the event so it flew under the radar and no one seems to even it’s even a thing yet, but if you go on the AppleCare page and look under Mac you’ll see it. It’s $60 a year so it’s a great value and it doesn’t have a limit on how long you can have it so I think it’s a much better deal than the 3 year plan, I’ll be getting it once my Mac Studio comes in


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## khollister (Mar 14, 2022)

KEM said:


> It was just released alongside the Mac Studio, they didn’t publicly announce it during the event so it flew under the radar and no one seems to even it’s even a thing yet, but if you go on the AppleCare page and look under Mac you’ll see it. It’s $60 a year so it’s a great value and it doesn’t have a limit on how long you can have it so I think it’s a much better deal than the 3 year plan, I’ll be getting it once my Mac Studio comes in


It was actually available last year - I had the option to subscribe or buy a 3 year plan when I purchased my M1Max MBP and Apple Pro Display XDR. I called and talked to Apple and clarified you can extend yearly even if you started with the 3 year plan. It was a very stealth rollout though.


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## khollister (Mar 14, 2022)

Symfoniq said:


> I'm doing things with my 2019 Mac Pro that you can't do with the Mac Studio (more than 128 GB of RAM, more than 8 TB of storage, using multiple PCIe slots, etc.).
> 
> That said, I think the time to buy a 2019 Mac Pro was in 2019. Unless your current machine is dead in the water and you absolutely need a machine with the Mac Pro's expandability _today_, you should wait for the Apple Silicon Mac Pro.
> 
> And if you don't need more than 128 GB of RAM or PCIe slots, get the Mac Studio and call it good.


Of course most of those "A listers" probably had 6.1 MP's or iMac Pro's before 2019, so I don't know where all the PCIe cards lived unless it was a couple Magna chassis. If you have a fistful of UAD cards and/or Pro Tools HD cards you don't want to swap for Satellites or PT Carbon, maybe. But the only real showstopper is RAM > 128GB.

And of course the on staff IT guy who told you to buy a $20,000 7.1 MP 2 years ago and is reluctant to now say you should replace it with a $7000 computer


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## KEM (Mar 14, 2022)

khollister said:


> It was actually available last year - I had the option to subscribe or buy a 3 year plan when I purchased my M1Max MBP and Apple Pro Display XDR. I called and talked to Apple and clarified you can extend yearly even if you started with the 3 year plan. It was a very stealth rollout though.



Yeah as far as I’m aware they never said anything about it publicly, only reason I even heard about it is because I watched a YouTube video on the Mac Studio and it was mentioned, I work at Best Buy and not even the people that work in Apple here knew about it lol


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## NoamL (Mar 14, 2022)

Mac Studio is a "semi pro" option? Good! Because from a computing perspective, composers _are_ semi-pros. "Pro composers" don't need "pro computers," those machines are for Pixar n' such.

It's like, take any 00's-JW cue of the "flurries of polyphony" type (_Attack Of The Clones, Harry Potter_ etc), check out the voice counts during playback of a good mockup of that, and compare to the voice counts it takes to break Kontakt running on _current Intel chips_. Logic running optimized on M1 might smoke that performance, right? So it's already irrelevant how much CPU they give us in their "pro" machines. And most of us are not being asked to rehash _Harry Potter._


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## KEM (Mar 14, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Mac Studio is a "semi pro" option? Good! Because from a computing perspective, composers _are_ semi-pros. "Pro composers" don't need "pro computers," those machines are for Pixar n' such.
> 
> It's like, take any 00's-JW cue of the "flurries of polyphony" type (_Attack Of The Clones, Harry Potter_ etc), check out the voice counts during playback of a good mockup of that, and compare to the voice counts it takes to break Kontakt running on _current Intel chips_. Logic running optimized on M1 will smoke that performance. Beyond that it's all superfluous I reckon. And most of us are not being asked to rehash _Harry Potter._



Yeah at this point if anyone even makes the claim that they’ll max out an M1 Ultra I’m just gonna assume they’re using VERY poorly optimized/incompatible plugins or they’re severely exaggerating cause there’s just no way


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## holywilly (Mar 15, 2022)

I’d choose 2019 Mac Pro, simply because the compatibility of my current hardwares (especially audio interface), and I want to stick with at least Catalina for now. 

The reality is I don’t want to invest that much money on computer, with same amount of money, I rather buy two Apple silicon Mac Pro when it releases, to ensure zero downtime. Because “Pro composers” never let clients wait.


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## gsilbers (Mar 15, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Mac Studio is a "semi pro" option? Good! Because from a computing perspective, composers _are_ semi-pros. "Pro composers" don't need "pro computers," those machines are for Pixar n' such.
> 
> It's like, take any 00's-JW cue of the "flurries of polyphony" type (_Attack Of The Clones, Harry Potter_ etc), check out the voice counts during playback of a good mockup of that, and compare to the voice counts it takes to break Kontakt running on _current Intel chips_. Logic running optimized on M1 might smoke that performance, right? So it's already irrelevant how much CPU they give us in their "pro" machines. And most of us are not being asked to rehash _Harry Potter._


yep, i think you hit the spot. We are just SOOOO used to mac pro being the "pro" that this "studio" thing sounds like some sort of mac mini or mac cube from the old days where it can't handle a profesional composer setup. 

right now a m1 ultra mac studio beats trevor morris's 2019 mac pro which from what i could figure out , its like $12,000 - $20,000 and he is writing with tons of tracks for vikings and other full orchestra scores. And he really wants to have all in one computer. 

And using a thunderbolt 4 cable/interface/drive is equal or better than PCIE expansion for audio interface or drives. 
but once poeple start reviewing it, we will see more proof of course. but based on benchmarks, this seems to be the case.


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## clonewar (Mar 15, 2022)

The question/choice for me isn't about a Studio vs a 2019 Pro, it's about getting a Studio now vs waiting for the next Pro. The hangups on the Studio for me are the 128 GB ram limit, and no PCIe or internal drive support. I know that I can get external enclosures for my PCIe cards and NVMe/SSD drives, but having a bunch of enclosures hanging off of the Studio kind of defeats the purpose of the form factor for me, I'd rather have everything in one tower. 

The ram limit is a bigger deal, it would limit me from running my full template in VE Pro on the same machine. There are workarounds, disabled track or preset templates, etc, but do I want to have to compromise on workflow if I'm spending $6K-$8K on a new Mac? (thinking out loud here)

My feeling right now is to wait and see what the next Pro is going to offer (and what the price points will be). There's still some critical software that needs to be updated to AS native anyway (especially VSL). 

There's no guarantee that the next Pro will support PCIe or additional internal drives, but I think that it's going to support both. A lot of the previous rumors of the Pro were that it was going to be half-sized, no internal expansion, etc, but we know now that those rumors were actually for the Studio. I won't be surprised if the next Pro basically the same form factor as the current one, just updated with Apple silicone. There wouldn't be any need for the machine otherwise, they could just offer higher end chipsets in the Studio. And we know for sure that a new Pro is coming because Apple mentioned it in last week's event.


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## rnb_2 (Mar 15, 2022)

clonewar said:


> There's no guarantee that the next Pro will support PCIe or additional internal drives, but I think that it's going to support both. A lot of the previous rumors of the Pro were that it was going to be half-sized, no internal expansion, etc, but we know now that those rumors were actually for the Studio. I won't be surprised if the next Pro basically the same form factor as the current one, just updated with Apple silicone. There wouldn't be any need for the machine otherwise, they could just offer higher end chipsets in the Studio. And we know for sure that a new Pro is coming because Apple mentioned it in last week's event.


I don't think it's clear that the Studio is the "half-size" Mac Pro (it's much smaller than that), but I honestly don't know which direction they're going to go with the new Mac Pro. I can't imagine them sticking with something as large as the 2019, but I think they need to allow some internal expansion, or (as you say) there's no reason for it to exist. A couple PCIe slots (but not for graphics cards) and a couple NVMe ports? Maybe.


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## mscp (Mar 15, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> A couple PCIe slots (but not for graphics cards) and a couple NVMe ports? Maybe.


A lot of Mac Pro composers I know (including myself) have at least 2 HDX cards, 1 or 2 NVME PCI-e expansion cards, one RME MADI or ADAT card, a couple of UAD octos, ...

I think it wouldn't be very smart for Apple to compromise all that for form factor.

If that happens, a lot of people will have to go through the ordeal of selling their cards, find alternative solutions, etc...etc...ugh.


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## rnb_2 (Mar 15, 2022)

mscp said:


> A lot of Mac Pro composers I know (including myself) have at least 2 HDX cards, 1 or 2 NVME PCI-e expansion cards, one RME MADI or ADAT card, a couple of UAD octos, ...
> 
> I think it wouldn't be very smart for Apple to compromise all that for form factor.
> 
> If that happens, a lot of people will have to go through the ordeal of selling their cards, find alternative solutions, etc...etc...ugh.


I think they'll keep the Intel Mac Pro around for a while to handle some cases like that, and I remain open to being surprised when they show the 2022, but I have difficulty seeing them essentially putting Apple Silicon inside the Intel case and calling it a day. For one thing, the cooling of that machine is all designed around keeping multiple PCIe GPUs cool (since the Apple GPU modules don't have their own fans), and that's very unlikely to be the case with Apple Silicon.


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## mscp (Mar 15, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> I'll be surprised if they don't keep the Intel Mac Pro around for a while to handle some cases like that, and I remain open to being surprised, but I have difficulty seeing them essentially putting Apple Silicon inside the Intel case and calling it a day. For one thing, the cooling of that machine is all designed around keeping multiple PCIe GPUs cool (since the Apple GPU modules don't have their own fans), and that's very unlikely to be the case with Apple Silicon.


Chassis is just metal/plastic. It's about space/real estate. They will probably redesign it, not make it much smaller because losing real estate will be an extremely dumb move.


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## clonewar (Mar 15, 2022)

rnb_2 said:


> I don't think it's clear that the Studio is the "half-size" Mac Pro (it's much smaller than that), but I honestly don't know which direction they're going to go with the new Mac Pro. I can't imagine them sticking with something as large as the 2019, but I think they need to allow some internal expansion, or (as you say) there's no reason for it to exist. A couple PCIe slots (but not for graphics cards) and a couple NVMe ports? Maybe.


It's my opinion/hunch, but following the Mac Pro rumors over the past year it really does seem like a lot of them were fairly accurate but were actually predicting the Studio. The crux of it was that the next one would be smaller and 'modular', which I think in Apple terms means 'external ports to plug in all of your crap', and is what the Studio delivers.

I just don't see them bringing out another high end model if it's just a slightly bigger Studio with more CPU/GPU/memory. If that's the case they'd just make it the Studio 'Extreme' (or whatever).


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## clonewar (Mar 15, 2022)

mscp said:


> A lot of Mac Pro composers I know (including myself) have at least 2 HDX cards, 1 or 2 NVME PCI-e expansion cards, one RME MADI or ADAT card, a couple of UAD octos, ...
> 
> I think it wouldn't be very smart for Apple to compromise all that for form factor.
> 
> If that happens, a lot of people will have to go through the ordeal of selling their cards, find alternative solutions, etc...etc...ugh.


This. I have HD Native and RME MADI FX PCIe cards, along with four NVMe (three in MB slots and one in a PCIe carrier) and three SATA SSD drives in my current PC tower.


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## groove (Apr 14, 2022)

About the RAM issue...does someone can compare the new unified RAM with M1 (max ultra whatever) with 128 Go to a 2019 Mac Pro with 256 Go ?

I mean I keep earing that the RAM management is different with that unified RAM but have not got any real feedback from power user about that...

My template is about 256 Go on 4 Mac (Mpro 2012, Mmini 2018 and Imac 2009 mixed) so I'd like to know about that if anyone had the chance to compare RAM perfomance.
Thanks


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## KEM (Apr 14, 2022)

groove said:


> About the RAM issue...does someone can compare the new unified RAM with M1 (max ultra whatever) with 128 Go to a 2019 Mac Pro with 256 Go ?
> 
> I mean I keep earing that the RAM management is different with that unified RAM but have not got any real feedback from power user about that...
> 
> ...



The ram is faster, but more ram is more ram, no way to get around that


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## groove (Apr 20, 2022)

KEM said:


> The ram is faster, but more ram is more ram, no way to get around that


Ok I get that  
So no difference in RAM needed in either setup ? Intel or M1 if you need 256 Go with Intel CPU you'll need 256 Go with M1 CPU ?
So why did Apple made earlier M1 CPU based Mac with limited 16 Go then now up to only 128 Go when the Intel Mac pro can get as high as 1500 Go that's absurd no ?
Or is it only a technical limitation due to earlier M1 CPU ?


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## rnb_2 (Apr 20, 2022)

groove said:


> Ok I get that
> So no difference in RAM needed in either setup ? Intel or M1 if you need 256 Go with Intel CPU you'll need 256 Go with M1 CPU ?
> So why did Apple made earlier M1 CPU based Mac with limited 16 Go then now up to only 128 Go when the Intel Mac pro can get as high as 1500 Go that's absurd no ?
> Or is it only a technical limitation due to earlier M1 CPU ?


We haven't seen the Apple Silicon Mac Pro yet, so it's unknown whether it will allow a similar amount of RAM as the Intel version. The Mac Studio effectively replaces the big iMac, which also topped out at 128GB of RAM.

Each iteration of the M1 line (and future M2, M3, etc) is intended for specific groups of users - the base chip is excellent for most normal computer users. The M1 is much faster than other mass-market chips, while using much less power. As it scales up to Pro (which I would call a photographer-directed chip - which is why I have one - plus audio that needs more than M1), Max (higher end photo, mid-range audio/video), and Ultra (high end audio/video), they're tuning power usage and heat for each.

Each RAM chip you add takes power, so for laptops, you want enough but not too much to maintain battery life. There is also the physical size of the package to consider - the Max is already a large package (they want to avoid making the logic board bigger, as that would cut into space for the battery), and the Ultra is huge (and also too power-hungry and hot for use in a laptop Apple would want to make).

Until they announce the Mac Pro, we just don't know if "only integrated GPUs" and "only on-package RAM" is written in stone for Apple Silicon, or if they can make accommodations for external GPUs and RAM to address the small but demanding markets that need more than can be done with an integrated package. With the Ultra, we're already into territory where the on-package RAM has to be addressable by processor cores that are on the other side of the interconnect that joins the two Max chips, so maybe they'll be able to allow a separate pool of user-upgradeable RAM that acts as "overflow" for the on-package RAM, essentially turning the latter into a massive cache that data gets swapped into as needed.

There are also rumors that the Intel Mac Pro may be sticking around for a while, if only to serve the markets that depend on massive amounts of RAM, more powerful GPUs, and/or more than 8TB of internal storage. We might have some answers in early June, but will definitely have a better idea what the roadmap looks like by the end of the year (Covid-willing).


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## groove (Apr 22, 2022)

Thank you Rick for that detailed answer 
🙏


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## Nicholas (Apr 22, 2022)

I wouldn't invest in the Intel platform anymore. No one knows how long Apple is going to actively support Intel Macs. I wouldn't risk it.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 22, 2022)

I agree. For now.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 22, 2022)

Nicholas said:


> I wouldn't invest in the Intel platform anymore. No one knows how long Apple is going to actively support Intel Macs. I wouldn't risk it.


With the huge number of Intel Mac’s out there (even new ones), I’m guessing at least five or six years before getting worried.


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 22, 2022)

For sure. But imagine spending $10,000 on a new Intel MacPro and in 5 years it will be worth about $500. If you can throw away $10k for that five year period then by all means, I say get an Intel Mac Pro and love the hell out of it...it will be a great machine, until it isn't...and you probably do have about 5 years I agree. But at that point it will be a door stopper.


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## mscp (Apr 22, 2022)

khollister said:


> Of course most of those "A listers" probably had 6.1 MP's or iMac Pro's before 2019, so I don't know where all the PCIe cards lived unless it was a couple Magna chassis. If you have a fistful of UAD cards and/or Pro Tools HD cards you don't want to swap for Satellites or PT Carbon, maybe. But the only real showstopper is RAM > 128GB.
> 
> And of course the on staff IT guy who told you to buy a $20,000 7.1 MP 2 years ago and is reluctant to now say you should replace it with a $7000 computer



Not an A lister (haha), but we had PCI-e to Thunderbolt on every single one of our trashcans for the HDX cards, and Satellites (UAD).


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## mscp (Apr 22, 2022)

NoamL said:


> Mac Studio is a "semi pro" option? Good! Because from a computing perspective, composers _are_ semi-pros. "Pro composers" don't need "pro computers," those machines are for Pixar n' such.
> 
> It's like, take any 00's-JW cue of the "flurries of polyphony" type (_Attack Of The Clones, Harry Potter_ etc), check out the voice counts during playback of a good mockup of that, and compare to the voice counts it takes to break Kontakt running on _current Intel chips_. Logic running optimized on M1 might smoke that performance, right? So it's already irrelevant how much CPU they give us in their "pro" machines. And most of us are not being asked to rehash _Harry Potter._


In Rosetta, it doesn’t smoke current Intel offerings. I’m waiting for everything to run natively so I can turn those theoretical benchmarks into real benchmarks. I might post them here.


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## mscp (Apr 22, 2022)

Yeah at this point if anyone even makes the claim that they’ll max out an M1 Ultra I’m just gonna assume they’re using VERY poorly optimized/incompatible plugins or they’re severely exaggerating cause there’s just no way
It’s easy to max it out when you have a large template, running at considerably low latency, video sync connected to Logic, and Logic sending all the stems for direct recording/printing in real time into Pro Tools.

Been there, done that.


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## Nicholas (Apr 23, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> With the huge number of Intel Mac’s out there (even new ones), I’m guessing at least five or six years before getting worried.


Sure, but what's five years for a computer as expensive as the Mac Pro? Also, remember the transition from PowerPC to Intel? They dropped support within 4 years from the initial announcement. We're already 2 years into Apple Silicon!
And sure, it's a different situation now than 2005. But we all know Apple IS willing to ditch legacy products when they see fit... see the multi-thousand dollar golden Apple Watch Series One.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Apr 23, 2022)

Nicholas said:


> Sure, but what's five years for a computer as expensive as the Mac Pro? Also, remember the transition from PowerPC to Intel? They dropped support within 4 years from the initial announcement. We're already 2 years into Apple Silicon!
> And sure, it's a different situation now than 2005. But we all know Apple IS willing to ditch legacy products when they see fit... see the multi-thousand dollar golden Apple Watch Series One.


Good point, those machines are uber pricey considering there’s a shelf life on the horizon. Im not worried about my $4k iMac, easier pill to swallow.


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## Fitz (Apr 23, 2022)

People put way too much emphasis on their computer power. It’s almost like a ridiculous dick measuring contest. At the end of the day, you could buy a cheap Mac Mac mini, and have two windows slaves and run perfectly fine. Put more money into your speakers, which last decades, than your computers, which last a year before something better is out.


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## Wunderhorn (Apr 23, 2022)

Feeling a sense of freedom and unobstructed workflow started for me when I was able to go beyond 128GB RAM.
PCI slots and upgradability (NVMe, graphic card etc) is the absolute prerequisite for a professional tool.
The mac Studio will age faster than the 2019 Pro in many regards. And having to rely on external TB for more storage? At the given price point absolutely unacceptable.

I recommend to go PC if you can’t go (or want) ‘Pro’ with Apple.


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## Eulenauge66 (Apr 24, 2022)

Fitz said:


> People put way too much emphasis on their computer power. It’s almost like a ridiculous dick measuring contest. At the end of the day, you could buy a cheap Mac Mac mini, and have two windows slaves and run perfectly fine. Put more money into your speakers, which last decades, than your computers, which last a year before something better is out.


Haha. I totally agree.

Of course, for me the whole debate about upgrading/ Mac vs.PC/ slave computers or not etc. etc. is a hobby for me that correlates nicely with my job, a nice way to sit on my sofa, read forums, and use half a day or two a month to optimize my studio setup. But then I return to the creative side of things, and make my living as a composer and producer (aside from being a live musician).

Computer power has long surpassed the needs of audio production. I don't need more than 128 GB of RAM, even though I write orchestral music (including delivering finished tracks that will never be recorded by real musicians, because most productions I am hired for don't have the budget for that). But I am also one of the guys who doesn't use several string libraries or is mixing brass library A, B and C. 

To stick with the topic here, I ordered a Mac Studio Pro Max, 32GB, and run everything via Vienna Ensemble Pro through PC servers.


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## Nicholas (Apr 24, 2022)

Fitz said:


> People put way too much emphasis on their computer power. It’s almost like a ridiculous dick measuring contest. At the end of the day, you could buy a cheap Mac Mac mini, and have two windows slaves and run perfectly fine. Put more money into your speakers, which last decades, than your computers, which last a year before something better is out.


This is very true. I recently had to give my iMac Pro (baseline 8-core, 32GB RAM) away for personal reasons. The whole studio is now running on a 1000€ Mac Mini (M1, 16GB RAM). I initially thought it's going to be a short-term solution until the Mac Studio is available in my country. The truth is.. it runs so well, I'm going to go with it for now. Can I get it to it's knees? Sure, load enough multi-core-heavy plug-ins like Amplitube, and it's going to run out of cores. But honestly, especially when writing a lot of orchestral music with a VEP slave machine, it's not breaking a sweat at all. So... I totally agree.


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