# REJECTION



## Fitz (Dec 22, 2019)

How do you deal with rejection?
I was just up for a huge Netflix property — and to be honest, I was quite perfect for the role. I went all out on the pitch, had great demos etc. but in the end they went with someone else. It feels like such a huge loss when I came so close. But how do people deal with rejection in this industry, especially when competition is only getting more fierce?

Obviously I have thick skin, but how do more veteran composers handle this? My next year now feels like much more of a question mark as I try to find a new project. how do you deal with rejection, and then downtime?


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## chillbot (Dec 22, 2019)

Drink a bunch of wine.

Repeat.

Try not to become an alcoholic though.

That's what I would do. I can't really get behind rainbows and butterflies and fake pep talks about shaking it off and moving on and 'learning from it' (hahahaha). But it's a bummer for sure, my sympathies.


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## tebling (Dec 22, 2019)

I try not to have all my eggs in one basket. Line up lots of gigs and put yourself out there for many projects. Breadth not depth. If a big deal falls through, you can immediately turn your attention to other prospects. As in dating, there are a lot of fish in the sea - especially nowadays.

That being said, of course it still hurts and we're all only human so don't be too hard on yourself. @chillbot's advice still applies.


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## pulse (Dec 22, 2019)

Never a dull moment in the land of pitches... you win some you loose some. Thats always been the way. Try not to beat yourself up too much about it as quite often a composer may have been chosen even before the pitch process begins. Sometimes they put it out for tender only as a formality. What ever the case you put your best foot forward and hope they remember you for a future project.


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## nolotrippen (Dec 22, 2019)

Fitz said:


> How do you deal with rejection?
> I was just up for a huge Netflix property — and to be honest, I was quite perfect for the role. I went all out on the pitch, had great demos etc. but in the end they went with someone else. It feels like such a huge loss when I came so close. But how do people deal with rejection in this industry, especially when competition is only getting more fierce?
> 
> Obviously I have thick skin, but how do more veteran composers handle this? My next year now feels like much more of a question mark as I try to find a new project. how do you deal with rejection, and then downtime?


Remember that most film composers have had completed scores thrown out (usually it's a sign the movie is in trouble and the producers haven't a clue whom to blame and since they don't understand film music, it MUST be the film music). Jerry Goldsmith? yup. Elmer Bernstein? yup. John Barry? yup. Ennio Morricone? yup Lalo Schffrin? yup (etc.)


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## Kyle Preston (Dec 22, 2019)

I went through a similar situation earlier this year on a video game @Fitz, I know it sucks . Around that time I found this Matt Damon video and it honestly made me feel a great deal better. Hope it helps.

​


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## givemenoughrope (Dec 22, 2019)

You can build a thicker skin to rejection when you realize that the people making these decisions are ad people, music house people, showrunners and most (obv not all) basically have the worst taste in music, tv, culture, everything. OR, the decision came down to something which had zero to do with you or your music. You can look at it like you were rejected or you can look at it like they made the wrong decision.

Look at the debacle over the showrunner who took over American Gods. I was excited for S3 but now I'm hoping it gets cancelled.


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## CT (Dec 22, 2019)

Kyle Preston said:


> I went through a similar situation earlier this year on a video game @Fitz, I know it sucks . Around that time I found this Matt Damon video and it honestly made me feel a great deal better. Hope it helps.
> 
> ​




Nice to see you around again man!


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## Fever Phoenix (Dec 22, 2019)

You can only move on.

It's not good or bad and most likely not personal. It's just a fact and man, the fact you were so close, shows you have what it takes to get there.

Dust yourself off and start all over again.

Sincerely, 
best of luck,

It's tough outthere.


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## Fever Phoenix (Dec 22, 2019)

tebling said:


> I try not to have all my eggs in one basket. Line up lots of gigs and put yourself out there for many projects. Breadth not depth. If a big deal falls through, you can immediately turn your attention to other prospects. As in dating, there are a lot of fish in the sea - especially nowadays.


Great advice, right there.

Also, while I have a gig, it's never guaranteed it's gonna last and or different ppl are in charge all of a sudden and you get replaced by someone newer, younger, more famous or related to someone that has a say.

Keep moving, get better, spread..


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## Sears Poncho (Dec 22, 2019)

"This is music that stinks to the ear"- (Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto)
"Guitar groups are on their way out"- Beatles being turned down by Decca
"Not suitable for us at present"- U2
"I will pass for now"- Madonna
Frenzy-score by Henry Mancini- rejected by Hitch.

You're in the club now, congrats.


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## VivianaSings (Dec 22, 2019)

The thing is, you're not looking at this from a realistic perspective. In YOUR head, you were perfect for this. That doesn't mean you were perfect. It means YOU think you were perfect, but that doesn't mean anything in the real world. The guys who listened to your stuff obviously didn't think you were perfect. And that's something you just have to accept, deal with, and move on from because you'll never know what it was what they were looking for and why you weren't it. There's probably a million reasons why you weren't perfect for it.

The thing is, unless you shift your viewpoint and accept that, you're gonna feel like you were shafted. 

The bigger question is, are you confident? Because this comes off a bit like you're not confident. For example, I know what I can do, I know who I've worked with, and I know what I've worked on. When I get passed for a big show, I don't feel like it has anything to do with me or that I wasn't good enough. I know I'm good enough, I just accept that there was something they were looking for that wasn't in what I showed them. If that's the issue, just work at getting better so you're a little more confident and it won't bother you so much. 

Maybe you just need some experience? Man, I've been doing this decades and have worked on enough really big things to know that sometimes it's just the way the sun is moving that day, or the guy checking out my stuff is in a bad mood. There's so many reasons why things work out and why they don't. You can't even begin to understand it all. 

Hell, I've been up for some huge things and everyone involved loved my stuff and thought it was perfect and the only one who didn't was the guy making the decision to everyone's confusion. Nothing I can do about that! Who knows what it was that he didn't dig that everyone else did. 

On the flip side I landed a gig scoring a AAA game for one of the huge software houses out of pure chance. I grabbed lunch with a friend, and he happened to bump into the head of the games division who he was friends with. He introduced me as a friend and a composer and orchestrator. He name dropped some stuff I did and the guy was like, "I've been looking for someone for one of our new titles...you want it?" and just like that I skipped past everyone who was fighting for it. I wasn't even trying - I just wanted lunch. The guy didn't even know if my stuff was right or not - he was fine with a name drop and a friend's recommendation.

That's the kind of business this is. So much of it is luck and pure chance. Sometimes you think everything is lining up perfectly and it crashes and other times you're not trying and you score. 

Even more important, don't go down the road of telling yourself, "Oh, these are TV guys, corporate guys, music sups, etc...they have sh!t taste in music. Not my fault". Condescending thoughts about someone you're trying to get work from never works out. And they can pick up on it, too. 

How do you deal with rejection and the downtime? Just keep on keeping on. Get back to work and doing the stuff that led you to this place to begin with. Law of averages is your friend. Just keep working.


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## jonathanparham (Dec 22, 2019)

VivianaSings said:


> How do you deal with rejection and the downtime? Just keep on keeping on. Get back to work and doing the stuff that led you to this place to begin with. Law of averages is your friend. Just keep working.


exactly


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## Henu (Dec 22, 2019)

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you then have a fully-done song(s) to present for a next pitch in case someone asks the same thing in the future? That's what I think if the first demo(s) don't pass or I end up losing the gig.


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## FinGael (Dec 22, 2019)

Pro tip:

You can always practice that with your spouse. 

"Honeeey?" *blinking eyes and making other suggestive gestures*

_-"_Not today!_"

After a while you have mastered the skill and it is not a big deal anymore. _


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## Banquet (Dec 23, 2019)

Looking from the outside - in.. (I'm just a hobbyist) I can imagine this must be one of the hardest aspects of composing for a living. 

Out of interest, what happens during the pitching process? Do you literally stand in front of a corporate meeting and play your music? Do you write music specifically for the pitch?


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## Henning (Dec 23, 2019)

For every door closing another is going to open. Sounds bland and fortune cookie-ish but I found it to be true. Just keep doing what you love doing.


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## FinGael (Dec 23, 2019)

Henning said:


> For every door closing another is going to open. Sounds bland and fortune cookie-ish but I found it to be true. Just keep doing what you love doing.



This. I am not a seasoned veteran in the context of this thread, but have this experience in other fields and parts of life.

Just move on and keep on working and bettering your craft and focusing on your thing. Sometimes the rejection can be a blessing in disguise, and something better is already lurking behind the next corner.


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## Fever Phoenix (Dec 23, 2019)

Banquet said:


> Looking from the outside - in.. (I'm just a hobbyist) I can imagine this must be one of the hardest aspects of composing for a living.
> 
> Out of interest, what happens during the pitching process? Do you literally stand in front of a corporate meeting and play your music? Do you write music specifically for the pitch?



There is no one scenario of pitching. Also as different platforms and genres cross over, there is even less of a strict structure or something. And in many cases much is handled digitally, via Email/servers, etc.

In the world I work mostly, I pitch first to the production company, because most of the time, director(s) aren't hired yet, when a project is new. The network is the client and therefore can demand different cast/composer/authors etc, so they have the final say.

So, it can happen that you are part of developing a project, two years of concept art, script writing and character develepomenent, title theme, variations etc
and the whole project gets rejected. Or the project gets made, but they (the client) have a specific composer in mind. For all kind of possible reasons.

Also, I get introduced to different ways of pitching at every other job and many times there is no said pitching. Or it comes in form of an internal competition. (Everyone involved, producer, director, network rep suggests a name and all composers score the same couple of scenes and then they vote)

Once I performed with a theater play. A year later someone that watched that show asked me if I would be interested to write music for their advertisement campaign.
No need to pitch anything. Of course we then went through their vision and I started to sketch out colors, but I don't consider that pitching, that was already working together.

I know, I am now all over the place..
Hope you can take away an answer 

Also I just got up 👻


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## Banquet (Dec 23, 2019)

Fever Phoenix said:


> There is no one scenario of pitching. Also as different platforms and genres cross over, there is even less of a strict structure or something. And in many cases much is handled digitally, via Email/servers, etc.
> 
> In the world I work mostly, I pitch first to the production company, because most of the time, director(s) aren't hired yet, when a project is new. The network is the client and therefore can demand different cast/composer/authors etc, so they have the final say.
> 
> ...



Thank you for taking the time to reply - very interesting!


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## nolotrippen (Dec 23, 2019)

Speaking of rejection the director of Born Free HATED John Barry's music and wanted it replaced but the producer liked it so it stayed in. Even after the score won not one, but two music Oscars, the director still hated it.


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## VivianaSings (Dec 23, 2019)

Fever Phoenix said:


> Or the project gets made, but they (the client) have a specific composer in mind. For all kind of possible reasons.



Lol reminds me of when I saw Titanic and I was really surprised at how bad James Horner's score was. I remember telling a friend that it sounded like 3rd rate Enya. Only to find out later that James Cameron wanted Enya to do the score but she declined and so he hired James Horner and told him to write like Enya


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## Tanuj Tiku (Dec 23, 2019)

Pitches can be like winning a lottery in the side of the world I work in, which is Mumbai. I try not to think too much about it and think of the fact that I got a foot in the door. 

Projects that do not materialize are not often a reflection of your abilities but rather them finding someone more appropriate for that specific project. Whether the decision was right or wrong is a moot point. 

It is important not to get too upset and close that door. Often, they may come back for something else in the future or make further recommendations. 

I do not make any comparisons of myself with anyone else. 

You win some, you loose some. Move on to the next project, with a mild but a short time limited grumpy phase!


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## Greg (Dec 23, 2019)

Work on trailers for a while! I've been rejected so many times that it's lucky to get an eye brow twitch out of me if that. Exposure therapy is real. 

Being composers for hire, we sometimes think we are only as good as our last gig, or only successful if we make the client happy. That is a recipe for disaster because so much of that is outside of your control and endlessly frustrating. I suggest starting your own music library, public albums, tutorials, or basically anything else you can do in your free time that doesn't depend on anyone but yourself.


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## Fever Phoenix (Dec 23, 2019)

VivianaSings said:


> Lol reminds me of when I saw Titanic and I was really surprised at how bad James Horner's score was. I remember telling a friend that it sounded like 3rd rate Enya. Only to find out later that James Cameron wanted Enya to do the score but she declined and so he hired James Horner and told him to write like Enya




Ahaha! Amazing!


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