# Got a peek of Hollywood Strings



## Aaron Sapp (Feb 3, 2010)

I visited Thomas's studio for a reason unrelated to HS, but naturally had a chance to take a look at some of the stuff he was working on with this library for a couple hours. I don't work for those guys, but felt obliged to offer up some of my thoughts after some of the unfair naysaying and "reviews" that have appeared on this forum.

A 'make or break' point for many potential customers I think is the notorious Play engine. They are well aware of the difficulties a good number of people are having and do empathize with their plight. In addition to working overtime on this library, they are really cracking the whip to make sure the code in Play is rock solid. Not just mere approximations of the existing code either.

So there's somewhere between 800k-900k samples. Over three weeks of recording sitting in the studio for over twelve hours a day. I was happy to hear that it wasn't solely a conductor working to get the performances, but a respected string player working with the musicians to get the best performances possible. Not necessarily a huge selling point, but for anyone who has done an extensive sampling session, they know how much of an effort it can be to keep the players on their toes note after note, chart after chart, hour after hour. 

The sound of this library is really something. What struck me was the air. It's there, but it's not harsh. I was playing with a full strings patch and played some nice, thick low harmonies. For how large the recorded ensembles were, there was a surprising clarity. I don't own Symphobia, but from little I've played on Trysound and the demos I've listened to, the mix/EQ seems to consume the higher frequencies more than I'd like. HS achieves that warm lush sound, but isn't so heavy on the instant-gratification processing. Just sounds right to my ears. 

In addition to achieving a proper overall string mix, the various mic positions offer a means to achieve a completely different sound. Typically all mics outside the Decca Tree play a supporting role, but in no way are any of the supporting mics half-assed from what I could tell. Want that lush, Schindler's List sound? Call up the Decca with some spot mics feathered in. Want some deliciously gritty spiccato chugging with the cello/basses? Call up the spot mics with a little Decca. 

While they're working overtime to get all the patches into the Alpha stage, the few legato beta patches that I played were already well on their way. Super playable and very expressive. I was messing around with a cello patch that sounded pretty final to my ears, only to be told that I was using only the slur-legato, let alone a patch incorporating all the various legato variations. 

In the video teaser that East West uploaded, there was a patch that allowed you to play chords in the lower register while playing legato violin in the upper register. To me, for actual sequencing this sort of patch is a waste. So I asked why this was included. Badly paraphrased -- "To be used as a sketch pad of sorts. For fun. Get the juices flowing kinda thing." I think there's something to be said about patches that aren't necessarily effective in string sequences but are a lot of fun to play. Full string patches in string libraries generally feel like an afterthought, but when programmed properly can really be effective for string pad work/sketching. 

A lot of TJ's own unconventional sampling philosophies have been implemented in this library. In addition to articulations that have been performed properly, he showed me a patch of 'loose spiccatos' -- spiccatos that have been performed deliberately out of tune. It doesn't make a lot of sense when playing your typical moderato spiccato passage, but as soon as you start playing a more aggressive/rapid spiccato passage, it all kind of clicks. There are a handful of similar techniques that have been implemented into this library that lifts a blockade of limitations when it comes to things like runs, fast spiccato/staccato passages, arpeggio work, etc. 

So in short, it sounds great, plays great, and the Play engine is out to redeem itself.


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## choc0thrax (Feb 3, 2010)

Sounds interesting. Hopefully it won't be too long before there's more demos.


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 3, 2010)

I really want to hear a demo that compares the slur legato with the bow change legato.

[strike]Some patches are still in alpha stage? I don't know what they were thinking when they said January, my guess is summer release or maybe even fall.[/strike] _(oops, miscommunication over what was meant by "alpha")_


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## Aaron Sapp (Feb 3, 2010)

Somehow in my mind the alpha stage is the final stage. Completely polished/done. They are about 90-95% done. I reckon it's the last 5% of work that's most difficult. Getting everything polished up.


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 3, 2010)

Ah. For software, Alpha is earlier than beta, not the other way around. Glad to hear that many patches are done (as opposed to barely started). I was a bit alarmed for a minute there.


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## fido94 (Feb 3, 2010)

Aaron, great report. thanks for sharing. Not to put you in a difficult spot but I would be curious to hear if you had any initial comments on HS vs. LASS based on what you've seen and heard. Please feel free to ignore my request if this is a premature question

Thank you.


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## tripit (Feb 4, 2010)

Thanks for the info. Nice to hear that they are taking the PLAY issues seriously. Really, that's by far my biggest concern with HS and I know I'm not alone.


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## germancomponist (Feb 4, 2010)

Aaron,

I expected nothing else.

Thanks for sharing your report!

And if they will need 2 or 3 month more to get this baby ready, no problem at all.


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 4, 2010)

All sounds good to me.

Hey, let's have a Derby on the actual release date! Plucked out of the air, I'll go for

DIAMOND - May 17th 2010
GOLD - May 31st 2010


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## OvaltineJenkins (Feb 4, 2010)

I would be (very pleasantly) surprised if we see a February release. 

But I wouldn't be surprised to see an August release for both. 'The Devil is in the Details', and with a huge, ground-breaking library like this, there are a lot of details to wrap up. 

Of course I'm *hoping* to be pleasantly surprised.


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## Jeremy B. (Feb 5, 2010)

Thanks for your little review. Hopefully we'll hear some demos soon. By the way, on Soundsonline Thomas has mentioned what the string ranges are for the library.

Ranges in HS (assuming middle C = C4):

1st & 2nd Violins: to F7
Violas: G6
Celli: G5
Basses: G4


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 5, 2010)

It's interesting that you heard the air in the samples - maybe they removed it from the demo videos? I certainly am not hearing it. It probably boils down to the mics used and/or the room acoustics since I doubt they would deliberately EQ the HF material away on recording - and I don't think they would use such aggressive noise reduction with Thomas on board. 

Sorry, Aaron, but I am not buying this until I hear it myself. I already posted examples of how a certain custom library sounds regarding air and without bragging too much I think we got a very nice, airy sound reminiscent of the sound on tons of Hollywood film score recordings. People can repeat from now till the end of the world that you can just ADD that air in, but it won't make it more true. You can't. You can take it AWAY rather easily if you are going for a darker sound, but you cannot put back in what was not recorded, especially not very high frequency material, also shown by the various EQ examples where people tried to do it with Hollywood Strings.

It sounds great about the loose spiccato and the legato patches - I am probably going to end up buying the library at some point, but it won't be for its "out of the box Hollywood sound", it will be for the techniques involved and the fact that you don't always need that airy sound.


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 5, 2010)

Jeremy B. @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> Thanks for your little review. Hopefully we'll hear some demos soon. By the way, on Soundsonline Thomas has mentioned what the string ranges are for the library.
> 
> Ranges in HS (assuming middle C = C4):
> 
> ...



I wonder if that is for all articulations and if not what the specific limited ranges are.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a summer release, if not fall. If I remember correctly, the initial PLAY releases were all about six months later than originally released, and this seems even bigger and more complex.

Imagine how long it will take just to play through all the patches with all the mic positions just to hear close to a million samples and verify them.


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## Nick Phoenix (Feb 5, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> Jeremy B. @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your little review. Hopefully we'll hear some demos soon. By the way, on Soundsonline Thomas has mentioned what the string ranges are for the library.
> ...



Mike the full ranges are for pretty much everything. Some things like pizzicato are slightly less. We cut no corners and only limited the range of something if it was useless torture for the players. The ranges are pretty great. I'm guessing the library will be out in 4 weeks.


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## Christian Marcussen (Feb 5, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > It's interesting that you heard the air in the samples - maybe they removed it from the demo videos? I certainly am not hearing it. It probably boils down to the mics used and/or the room acoustics since I doubt they would deliberately EQ the HF material away on recording - and I don't think they would use such aggressive noise reduction with Thomas on board.
> ...



What's the approx. timeline for those?

Thanks


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 5, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> Mike the full ranges are for pretty much everything. Some things like pizzicato are slightly less. We cut no corners and only limited the range of something if it was useless torture for the players. The ranges are pretty great. I'm guessing the library will be out in 4 weeks.



Thanks for the info.

A list of specific ranges for the articulations that are slightly less would be great.


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## Nick Phoenix (Feb 5, 2010)

Honestly Mike, I think you drink too much coffee or something.


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 5, 2010)

Just trying to find out about the product.


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## germancomponist (Feb 5, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> Honestly Mike, I think you drink too much coffee or something.



Nick,

can you tell me the names from the first violin players? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: o-[][]-o


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Feb 5, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> Nick Phoenix @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly Mike, I think you drink too much coffee or something.
> ...



And are they hot?


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## synthetic (Feb 5, 2010)

Aaron Sapp @ Wed Feb 03 said:


> A lot of TJ's own unconventional sampling philosophies have been implemented in this library. In addition to articulations that have been performed properly, he showed me a patch of 'loose spiccatos' -- spiccatos that have been performed deliberately out of tune. It doesn't make a lot of sense when playing your typical moderato spiccato passage, but as soon as you start playing a more aggressive/rapid spiccato passage, it all kind of clicks. There are a handful of similar techniques that have been implemented into this library that lifts a blockade of limitations when it comes to things like runs, fast spiccato/staccato passages, arpeggio work, etc.



This is the most interesting to me, and something I was hoping for with TJ's involvement. This specific example is available on a MIDI controller in LASS, but I expect there will be more tricks like this.


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## Peter Alexander (Feb 5, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> Just trying to find out about the product.



See:
http://solomonsmusic.net/insrange.htm

It looks like C4 is Middle C. Double high C is usually shown as the top range for violins but the extended ranges Nick reported demonstrate the capabilities of the Los Angeles musician community. 

More:
http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/Prod ... 67701.aspx


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## Peter Alexander (Feb 5, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Nick Phoenix @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> ...



Wrong question!

The correct question for many L.A. scoring sessions is: "I just got here - where are the Boston creme donuts?"


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## germancomponist (Feb 5, 2010)

Oops,

these donuts. :-D 

Once I was in Chicago in the motel we got only donats for breakfast. I learned to hate them... . :mrgreen:


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 5, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> Mike Connelly @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Just trying to find out about the product.
> ...



What does any of that have to do with what I asked?

Actually, info like that is the sort of thing I assume the manual would go into detail on. If the manual is posted before release, that would answer many questions for many potential buyers.


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## Peter Alexander (Feb 5, 2010)

Mike Connelly @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> Peter Alexander @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Mike Connelly @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> ...



Articulations follow range.


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## germancomponist (Feb 5, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Nick Phoenix @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> ...



Oops, is there something what I don`t know in my language? 

"Are they hot?", what does this mean? o/~


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 5, 2010)

Peter, never mind.


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## RiffWraith (Feb 5, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> Oops, is there something what I don`t know in my language?
> 
> "Are they hot?", what does this mean? o/~



It means Doug and Nick lit a fire under their arses to get them to play well.

=o 

j/k - it means "are they good looking?"


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## RiffWraith (Feb 5, 2010)

Thanks much for the review, Aaron.



Aaron Sapp @ Thu Feb 04 said:


> *A lot of TJ's own unconventional sampling philosophies *have been implemented in this library.



Umm, do I dare ask you to elaborate? :D


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## germancomponist (Feb 5, 2010)

RiffWraith @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > Oops, is there something what I don`t know in my language?
> ...



Oh, so Nathan Allen didn`t saw my joking... . 

My ironic question was the answer to Nick`s answer to another question.


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## choc0thrax (Feb 5, 2010)

germancomponist @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> RiffWraith @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > germancomponist @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> ...



Thank you, now I know what it's like to have my brains explode.


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## Waywyn (Feb 5, 2010)

choc0thrax @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> germancomponist @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > RiffWraith @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> ...



*LoL*

I have to admit, I am happy that now we have all ironic answers to all ironic questions from ... uhm .. all ironic other ... damn, what's that smell ... someone scorched milk ... no wait, it's coming out of my head!


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 6, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Fri Feb 05 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Fri Feb 05 said:
> 
> 
> > It's interesting that you heard the air in the samples - maybe they removed it from the demo videos? I certainly am not hearing it. It probably boils down to the mics used and/or the room acoustics since I doubt they would deliberately EQ the HF material away on recording - and I don't think they would use such aggressive noise reduction with Thomas on board.
> ...



Eh no I didn't, there is no boosting whatsoever of he HF in the demo I posted. If anything, I sometimes take out some of the HF if I think the sound needs it. You can take away the air that was recorded but you cannot put it in if it was never there... I would think it's fair to say that I know more about what went on with my library than you do 8) But you EQ'd to remove yours or what?  

If the air is there I can't see why it's not showing in the demos. Afterall the audio inthere is uncompressed so we can't blame a bad MP3 codec or anything like that. But looking forward to more demos!


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## Nick Phoenix (Feb 6, 2010)

Simon, it was once mentioned by someone from your team on a forum that you guys eq'd each sample to match some target recordings. It wouldn't surprise me because I've recorded the same string players many times in the same room, same gear etc.. and it sounds great but you have to add a lot of hi end. We haven't eq'd our samples at all and there is almost no noise reduction, so the air is there. Of course you could add a touch of high end. Shawn usually adds a touch of 14k when he mixes.


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## Craig Sharmat (Feb 6, 2010)

no eq added here.
Maybe that was a version of VI-pro

Looking forward to HS. I believe it will be a great lib...

cheers...


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## lux (Feb 6, 2010)

indipendently from the sample player used, play, kontakt or whatever, i'm wondering how a normal daw can handle such kind of lib. I mean, from the bytes declared and the hints theyre givin this thing looks like absolutaly unmanageable unless youre working in a cluster situation. Thing that, despite what most of guys here make their way to declare it, i think its not so common out there. 

One thing that previous libs by East West had is that i could handle the whole Symphonic orchestra using one single computer. Even the platinum edition. And it sounded great. And it still sounds great.

One thing that could make this lib usable is the chance to load just THE articulation you want. So, basically have the articulation and the single mic youre after loaded into play. That could probably allow a normal usage of the lib. If thats not the case i will probably not take it into consideration no matter how good it could sound.


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 6, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> Simon, it was once mentioned by someone from your team on a forum that you guys eq'd each sample to match some target recordings. It wouldn't surprise me because I've recorded the same string players many times in the same room, same gear etc.. and it sounds great but you have to add a lot of hi end. We haven't eq'd our samples at all and there is almost no noise reduction, so the air is there. Of course you could add a touch of high end. Shawn usually adds a touch of 14k when he mixes.



I don't know who said that but it's no true. We went for an airy sound, and we got that in the raw recordings - not by EQ. You should ask Thomas, he should be able to confirm... The airy sound we got was mainly because of the overhead mics used in the recordings and the fact that the room was fairly big. I am glad you didn't use much noise reduction but I still think the lack of air is a pity. It might work for many styles, but surely it is easier to remove HF than to add it...


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## Peter Alexander (Feb 6, 2010)

lux @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> indipendently from the sample player used, play, kontakt or whatever, i'm wondering how a normal daw can handle such kind of lib. I mean, from the bytes declared and the hints theyre givin this thing looks like absolutaly unmanageable unless youre working in a cluster situation. Thing that, despite what most of guys here make their way to declare it, i think its not so common out there.



The recommended system is 8-Core on the Mac and I'd just plan for that on the PC unless you want to get an i7.


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## Waywyn (Feb 6, 2010)

lux @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> indipendently from the sample player used, play, kontakt or whatever, i'm wondering how a normal daw can handle such kind of lib. I mean, from the bytes declared and the hints theyre givin this thing looks like absolutaly unmanageable unless youre working in a cluster situation. Thing that, despite what most of guys here make their way to declare it, i think its not so common out there.
> 
> One thing that previous libs by East West had is that i could handle the whole Symphonic orchestra using one single computer. Even the platinum edition. And it sounded great. And it still sounds great.
> 
> One thing that could make this lib usable is the chance to load just THE articulation you want. So, basically have the articulation and the single mic youre after loaded into play. That could probably allow a normal usage of the lib. If thats not the case i will probably not take it into consideration no matter how good it could sound.



Luca, one question and I think you know what I am trying to say, but do you think technology ends with 2TB harddrives, 8core CPUs and 32GB of RAM? In like 3 to 4 years we will laugh about a 500GB string lib! 

.. since we laugh now about an AKAI sampler which was holding amazing and awesome 16MB of RAM back then and string libs fit on a floppy disk! 

It's just an endless spiral which ends are conected in an odd way ... and we are just somewhere in the middle, only be to be at the beginning


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## Aaron Sapp (Feb 6, 2010)

A little bird told me that the engineer at the PP sessions EQ'd the recordings a little to bring out the higher frequencies. Not sure why someone would lie about this. Maybe there was a little disconnect between you fellas during the sessions.


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## lux (Feb 6, 2010)

Waywyn @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> lux @ Sat Feb 06 said:
> 
> 
> > indipendently from the sample player used, play, kontakt or whatever, i'm wondering how a normal daw can handle such kind of lib. I mean, from the bytes declared and the hints theyre givin this thing looks like absolutaly unmanageable unless youre working in a cluster situation. Thing that, despite what most of guys here make their way to declare it, i think its not so common out there.
> ...



right, thats the type of reply i usually expect from you.

nice then. I'll hit "add to cart" after 4 years. Thanks for clarifying 

Luca


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## lux (Feb 6, 2010)

Peter Alexander @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> lux @ Sat Feb 06 said:
> 
> 
> > indipendently from the sample player used, play, kontakt or whatever, i'm wondering how a normal daw can handle such kind of lib. I mean, from the bytes declared and the hints theyre givin this thing looks like absolutaly unmanageable unless youre working in a cluster situation. Thing that, despite what most of guys here make their way to declare it, i think its not so common out there.
> ...



Thanks Peter. Luca


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## Waywyn (Feb 6, 2010)

lux @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> Waywyn @ Sat Feb 06 said:
> 
> 
> > lux @ Sat Feb 06 said:
> ...



LOL!

But to be serious, I think some patches will be big and mighty, but I am sure they also include patches which are just load 'n' go as with every other lib too.


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## Nick Phoenix (Feb 6, 2010)

Simon Ravn @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> Nick Phoenix @ Sat Feb 06 said:
> 
> 
> > Simon, it was once mentioned by someone from your team on a forum that you guys eq'd each sample to match some target recordings. It wouldn't surprise me because I've recorded the same string players many times in the same room, same gear etc.. and it sounds great but you have to add a lot of hi end. We haven't eq'd our samples at all and there is almost no noise reduction, so the air is there. Of course you could add a touch of high end. Shawn usually adds a touch of 14k when he mixes.



I don't know who said that but it's no true. We went for an airy sound, and we got that in the raw recordings - not by EQ. You should ask Thomas, he should be able to confirm... The airy sound we got was mainly because of the overhead mics used in the recordings and the fact that the room was fairly big. I am glad you didn't use much noise reò   ÃA½   ÃA¾   ÃA¿   ÃAÀ   ÃAÁ   ÃAÂ   ÃAÃ   ÃAÄ   ÃAÅ   ÃAÆ   ÃAÇ   ÃAÈ   ÃAÉ   ÃAÊ   ÃAË   ÃAÌ   ÃAÍ   ÃAÎ   ÃAÏ   ÃAÐ   ÃAÑ   ÃAÒ   ÃAÓ   ÃAÔ   ÃAÕ   ÃAÖ   ÃA×   ÃAØ   ÃAÙ   ÃAÚ   ÃAÛ   ÃAÜ   ÃAÝ   ÃAÞ   ÃAß   ÃAà   ÃAá   ÃAâ   ÃAã   ÃAä   ÃA


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## Nick Phoenix (Feb 6, 2010)

No there are no longer any separate mic patches. All patches have all mics built in. So you just choose which mics you want loaded within the patch.


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## lux (Feb 6, 2010)

Ok, thanks. I guess that means that a single patches loads as many sample sets as are mics is the lib.


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## Ed (Feb 6, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> All patches have all mics built in. So you just choose which mics you want loaded within the patch.



I am confused by this statement. Is that not ... contradictory?


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## lux (Feb 6, 2010)

Ed @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> Nick Phoenix @ Sat Feb 06 said:
> 
> 
> > All patches have all mics built in. So you just choose which mics you want loaded within the patch.
> ...



i think not, probably you can switch on/off and mix the single mics as you do in play with drums on ministry of rock or something like that. 

I dunno if it allows to unload mics as you can unload stuff in ministry of rock. In that case i could save myself a patch with just one mic unloading all the remaining one and saving. But i'm just guessing. If it doesnt allow you to purge from memory the mics you dont need having a complete template with a lot of articulations could be a pita, at least for me.


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## bryla (Feb 6, 2010)

If it works as EWQLSO in Play, it loads in one mic position. If you want to add another you simply load it within the interface. If you don't need it, you unload it.


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## lux (Feb 6, 2010)

no, from what Nick says i'm guessing you load all the mics at once. Then you mix. But youre playing a five sized patch.

I could be wrong with that tho.


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 6, 2010)

Aaron Sapp @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> A little bird told me that the engineer at the PP sessions EQ'd the recordings a little to bring out the higher frequencies. Not sure why someone would lie about this. Maybe there was a little disconnect between you fellas during the sessions.



Ehh Aaron.... EQ is always used during recording, that's no secret. I am sure Shawn Murphy uses EQ too... That has nothing to do with the fact that I hear no or little air in the HS recording vs our PP recordings. And Thomas, Craig, Maarten and me are not disagreeing about anything. You seem to have been secuded beyond reason by visiting the EW studio. Mostly it boils down to microphones and the space you record in. And we were fortunate enough to get a very open and airy sound, which is what I associate with the "Hollywood sound", and I just think HS has missed that. I am sure, in 5-10 years when HS is not a business of importance to Nick and Thomas, they will agree that HS didn't turn out the way they had hoped, soundwise... 

As I mentioned several times, I will most likely end up buying HS - but it will not be because of its "Hollywood sound" but because of the legato and other technical features that will allow me to create music that I couldn't before, but I will have to somewhat sacrifice on the sound.


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## Ed (Feb 6, 2010)

Simon Ravn @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> As I mentioned several times, I will most likely end up buying HS - but it will not be because of its "Hollywood sound" but because of the legato and other technical features that will allow me to create music that I couldn't before, but I will have to somewhat sacrifice on the sound.



Lets be clear here though, it does sound very good. Its not like the weirdness of QLSO! In my opinion from what I've heard of the *sound* I think they very almost nailed it. Which is still very good, especially for a commercial library. You guys just got lucky with PP I guess.


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## Ed (Feb 6, 2010)

lux @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> i think not,



I read it again, I get it now  doh!


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 6, 2010)

Ed @ Sun Feb 07 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Sat Feb 06 said:
> 
> 
> > As I mentioned several times, I will most likely end up buying HS - but it will not be because of its "Hollywood sound" but because of the legato and other technical features that will allow me to create music that I couldn't before, but I will have to somewhat sacrifice on the sound.
> ...



I agree with you on that. We just went to Prague and said "ok we would like this open Hollywood sound" and basically got it. I think we got a less open and smooth sound the 2nd time we went there (on a different mixer and a different mixing room etc. because they had changed their setup). So I don't think in any way it's easy to achieve that sound even if you say you want it. Which is also why I think Nick and Thomas will awknowledge in time that they didn't get the sound they were after. We were just lucky, they were not as lucky. I agree, totally that we were lucky and could just as well have returned with something not as satisfactory as we did. It's very tough to achieve what you're after, soundwise. We were also fortunate with our violin section I think. The next year when we returned we got a less enthustiastic and not as well playing section, but I think we were very fortunate the first time around with both violins, violas and cellos.


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## Nick Phoenix (Feb 6, 2010)

Simon. We did nail the sound. We recorded 2 pieces of music and dialed it in till it sounded exactly like Munich, IJ4 and a few other recordings. Then we left everything as is and sampled. I asked Shawn at that point what he thought and he said it was stunning and all he would do to that sound in the final mix stage was add a touch of 14k and a touch of 80-120 hz. This is generally what he does on all his recordings. I have heard Project Prague and respectfully, it doesn't sound quite as good as HS. That's why Thomas agreed to do HS with me. You didn't think he did it for the money did you? Neither of us did it for that reason. Yes we have tons more legato and articulations but the sound of PP is not quite there. And it was eq'd. Shawn used no eq. It's all the right mics in the right place. Careful getting down off your high horse.


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## choc0thrax (Feb 6, 2010)

This is going to be a long thread. o-[][]-o


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 6, 2010)

Sure, whatever - that's all I have to add


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## Peter Alexander (Feb 6, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> "Yes Hollywood Strings will have large patches that will do your laundry..."



My wife said I could order it...


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## midphase (Feb 6, 2010)

"That's why Thomas agreed to do HS with me. You didn't think he did it for the money did you? Neither of us did it for that reason."

I always find statements like that really unnecessary. Look, I don't know either one of your economic situations (although I suspect at least one of you is in pretty good shape), and it goes without saying that you both worked your asses off I'm sure...but you're telling us that deep down neither one of you is hoping for a good payout from the effort at some point in some way shape or form? Come on!


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## Audun Jemtland (Feb 6, 2010)

midphase @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> "That's why Thomas agreed to do HS with me. You didn't think he did it for the money did you? Neither of us did it for that reason."
> 
> I always find statements like that really unnecessary. Look, I don't know either one of your economic situations (although I suspect at least one of you is in pretty good shape), and it goes without saying that you both worked your asses off I'm sure...but you're telling us that deep down neither one of you is hoping for a good payout from the effort at some point in some way shape or form? Come on!



That's irrelevant,they get some kind of personal benefit from it wether it's big money or not.
Remember that everything in life is subjective, we will all have an opinion about something...no need to bash eachother. "I'm right" "no you're not!" 
Pointless...

What is "true" though imo is that you cannot replicate something excactly the way you want it or made it before. Every recording is unique. I'm sure pp have something that HS doesn't, and vice versa.


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## Vision (Feb 6, 2010)

The dreaded departure of Nick Phoenix? :cry:


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## Vision (Feb 6, 2010)

Seriously though. I think the sound is subjective. It's obvious that Simon has his ideal of what the Hollywood Sound is. I do think saying that HS missed getting that Hollywood Sound is a bit insulting. 

Anyway, I seriously hope this is squashed. Let's just make music men.


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## Nick Phoenix (Feb 6, 2010)

midphase @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> "That's why Thomas agreed to do HS with me. You didn't think he did it for the money did you? Neither of us did it for that reason."
> 
> I always find statements like that really unnecessary. Look, I don't know either one of your economic situations (although I suspect at least one of you is in pretty good shape), and it goes without saying that you both worked your asses off I'm sure...but you're telling us that deep down neither one of you is hoping for a good payout from the effort at some point in some way shape or form? Come on!



Creating these virtual instruments is a maddening experience and I do it because the end product helps my writing. I also like sharing the sounds. I feels like I have some role in this world. That's mostly why I do it. 

Simon, I think you guys did a great job on PP.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Feb 6, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> Careful getting down off your high horse.



Your still on yours.


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## Nick Phoenix (Feb 6, 2010)

No Simon said his strings weren't eq'd. Well they were. That pretty much negates everything he said about magically capturing the air that we missed. And I was defending the engineering, not my role in this.


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 6, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Sun Feb 07 said:


> No Simon said his strings weren't eq'd. Well they were. That pretty much negates everything he said about magically capturing the air that we missed. And I was defending the engineering, not my role in this.



Sorry, but you're full of it. Of course they were EQ'ed during recording. Everbody have their settinngs during recording. But no EQ was applied afterwards during playback or mixdown. Nuff said. If you missed the air, that's a pity. Apparently your engineer missed the 8-16 khz part of the recordings... I never apply any EQ at 8-20khz which I am sure Craig will be happy to agree on. Rather the opposite which is much easier than adding something which was never there....

Sorry but it seems to make you even more un-easy about HS if you feel the need to badmouh a private custom library to defend your sound of your own library... I think HS has a lot of potetial, but regarding the air it is far from the mark. And I know you will awknowledge this a few years from now.


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 6, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Sun Feb 07 said:


> No Simon said his strings weren't eq'd. Well they were. That pretty much negates everything he said about magically capturing the air that we missed. And I was defending the engineering, not my role in this.



They are not EQ'd. As simple is that. And no matter how hard you EQ'd yours, they would never get the air of PP.

If Thomas is still as honest as when we were creating PP he will be able to tell you that despite his financial involvement in HS...


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## SvK (Feb 6, 2010)

This is so silly.

QuestiòU   ÃN¢U   ÃN£U   ÃN¤U   ÃN¥U   ÃN¦U   ÃN§U   ÃN¨U   ÃN©U   ÃNªU   ÃN«U   ÃN¬U


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## SvK (Feb 6, 2010)

I agree. Really beautiful stuff. Is it all PP?

SvK


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## Craig Sharmat (Feb 6, 2010)

http://www.scoredog.tv/music/music.html

go to Dog Bones, you may wish to bypass the choir medley but there is mostly PP in there too.

One of the problems with legato and air is it creates phasing so if HS has kept a lot air w/o phasing it is quite an accomplishment. 

PP is not a legato library.


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## SvK (Feb 6, 2010)

Craig...all I hear is Choir 

SvK


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 6, 2010)

Sure, PP leaves a lot to be desired in the legato deparemnt. It is not a modern library with scripting etc. I am aware of that. I am only discussing the sound which I - frankly - think is surrperior to HS still.


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## Craig Sharmat (Feb 6, 2010)

There are 5 pieces in Dog bones...please look harder.


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## SvK (Feb 6, 2010)

Craig....stuff sounds great. Misunderstood you; thought it was within the Choir Medley cue...

Need to hear exposed string sustains to compare....

Horns , winds sound fantastic.

SvK


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## Nick Phoenix (Feb 6, 2010)

Simon, In a couple weeks our library will be done enough so I can show you all you need to know. We can duel it out then, if that's what you want. I find it interesting that what you said about HS is OK, but what I said, which was mostly very positive is badmouthing. And it turns out I was right about the high eq. Obviously you are taking this all even more personally than I am. You know Thomas uses PP every day and I always praise it. Back in a couple of weeks....


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## José Herring (Feb 6, 2010)

midphase @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> "That's why Thomas agreed to do HS with me. You didn't think he did it for the money did you? Neither of us did it for that reason."
> 
> I always find statements like that really unnecessary. Look, I don't know either one of your economic situations (although I suspect at least one of you is in pretty good shape), and it goes without saying that you both worked your asses off I'm sure...but you're telling us that deep down neither one of you is hoping for a good payout from the effort at some point in some way shape or form? Come on!



Nothing wrong with makin' money.


José


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## choc0thrax (Feb 6, 2010)

josejherring @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> midphase @ Sat Feb 06 said:
> 
> 
> > "That's why Thomas agreed to do HS with me. You didn't think he did it for the money did you? Neither of us did it for that reason."
> ...



Hmm, who would've ever thought that a guy with a name like Nick Phoenix who lives in L.A. would want to make money. ~o)


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## Nick Phoenix (Feb 6, 2010)

A recent photo


http://www.saskbullshit.com/images/used-car-salesman.jpg (http://www.saskbullshit.com/images/used ... lesman.jpg)


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## bryla (Feb 6, 2010)

nikolas I got this now: Simon, Craig, TJ and Maarten did it, and a few others have it.


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## nikolas (Feb 6, 2010)

I couldn't remember how to spell Maarten, so I left him out. And I also failed to remember Craig, but at least I got the other 2 right! :D lol...


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## NYC Composer (Feb 7, 2010)

I'll take the commercially available library, please, as the other is simply the sonic playground of the privileged. As to the rest, you gentlemen have urinated long and far enough...sheathe those schlongs, sez I!


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## noiseboyuk (Feb 7, 2010)

For anyone interested, I've just started a PP thread here - http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15341 - as it seemed to be rather taking over the HS dscussion!


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Feb 7, 2010)

To be honest, comparing a custom library with a commercial library is...kind of irrelevant.


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 7, 2010)

Nick Phoenix @ Sun Feb 07 said:


> Simon, In a couple weeks our library will be done enough so I can show you all you need to know. We can duel it out then, if that's what you want. I find it interesting that what you said about HS is OK, but what I said, which was mostly very positive is badmouthing. And it turns out I was right about the high eq. Obviously you are taking this all even more personally than I am. You know Thomas uses PP every day and I always praise it. Back in a couple of weeks....



I don't know what a duel would be good for. I mean, I already said that PP is an "old fashioned" library - just a sample playback library. No scripting, no legato features etc. But the sound is there. And I just had a hope that HS would have the sound AND the legato etc. features - that would be - if not the ultimate, then at least close to the holy grail in string libraries. And I was disappointed by the sound of it. And no, you are not right about the EQ - there is NO EQ applied to the music I create with PP. No need for HF boosting. With HS even if I boost 12 db in 6Khz+ I don't get the air that I have with PP without any EQ. That's the problem as I see it. That the HF was never recorded in HS which is a bloody shame.


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Feb 7, 2010)

Simon Ravn @ Sun Feb 07 said:


> Nick Phoenix @ Sun Feb 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Simon, In a couple weeks our library will be done enough so I can show you all you need to know. We can duel it out then, if that's what you want. I find it interesting that what you said about HS is OK, but what I said, which was mostly very positive is badmouthing. And it turns out I was right about the high eq. Obviously you are taking this all even more personally than I am. You know Thomas uses PP every day and I always praise it. Back in a couple of weeks....
> ...



Kinda early for saying HS doesn't have HF. That was off a movie. And while movie audio is uncompressed, the sound does get changed.


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## Simon Ravn (Feb 7, 2010)

Nathan Allen Pinard @ Sun Feb 07 said:


> Simon Ravn @ Sun Feb 07 said:
> 
> 
> > Nick Phoenix @ Sun Feb 07 said:
> ...



Of course the sound doesn't get changed if the sound is uncompressed - unless they recorded it with a mic along with the VO


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 8, 2010)

lux @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> btw, i know Play can unload stuff on the fly. But its pretty different between loading a huge patch, having your computer choke, then unloading mics or arts you dont need and having you just load the patch you need. A busy machine already loaded with stuff could crash or getting definitely slow also if you unload stuff at a second time



One thing PLAY _really_ needs is a user preference to choose between 24 and 16 bit when loading a new patch, and a user preference for which mic position loads. An option to change bit depth and mics globally for all PLAY instruments at once would be fantastic as well. Even with Platinum so much time can be spent having to load samples you aren't even going to use, then having to load the ones you really want, and this library is that much bigger.

Hopefully this will show up sooner rather than later in a PLAY update (along with a number of other necessary features).

Has the default mic loading for HS been determined? My guess would be 24 bit main decca.



Simon Ravn @ Sat Feb 06 said:


> They are not EQ'd. As simple is that.



I assume he's saying the initial sample recordings are EQ'd (which you agree with), not that you added EQ to the mix of your sequence.

I don't see how it's a huge deal either way. If you want an EQ boost on the high end, you can add it going to tape, or you can add it at final mix. As long as there is something recorded in those high frequencies, it's probably not going to make much difference which of the two ways you do it.



Nathan Allen Pinard @ Sun Feb 07 said:


> And while movie audio is uncompressed, the sound does get changed.



It shouldn't be if you create the movie properly.


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## wqaxsz (Feb 8, 2010)

Hi,

i am not sure but on my system the mov file sounds digital and 2d 
like average compression,
i think tòŽ„   Ã"Ž„   Ã#Ž„   Ã$Ž„   Ã%Ž„   Ã&Ž„   Ã'Ž„   Ã(Ž„   Ã)Ž„   Ã*Ž„   Ã+Ž„   Ã,Ž„   Ã-Ž„   Ã.Ž„   Ã/Ž„   Ã0Ž„   Ã1Ž„   Ã2Ž„   Ã3Ž„   Ã4Ž„   Ã5Ž„   Ã6Ž„   Ã7Ž„   Ã8Ž„   Ã9Ž„   Ã:Ž„   Ã;Ž…   Ã<Ž…   Ã=Ž…


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## wqaxsz (Feb 8, 2010)

Hi,

just found the link post 103 
http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/show ... 55&page=11


Regards

Lolitinio


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## Nathan Allen Pinard (Feb 8, 2010)

Honestly there's air in that recording.


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## choc0thrax (Feb 8, 2010)

wqaxsz @ Mon Feb 08 said:


> Hi,
> 
> just found the link post 103
> http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/show ... 55&page=11
> ...



Huh, it doesn't sound "completely different"


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## TheoKrueger (Feb 8, 2010)

Awesome by the way East West: THANKS for making the youtube videos on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVyoR5osoAk because i hadn't been able to see them on this computer for so long because of crappy Quicktime etc.

*puts headphones on and starts watching*

Edit: Ok just finished watching, what can I say. I love these strings and the first demo sounds amazing.

Cheers,
Theo


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## Mike Connelly (Feb 10, 2010)

I wouldn't really expect any library to go past an octave, although I can see situations where it would be nice to have a ninth or tenth.


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