# Samples for Beautiful Brass (Let's Have Some fun!)



## Rodney Money (Feb 8, 2016)

In my other thread, "Samples for Trumpet Fanfares," I was hoping that we would get several examples of members rendering a short trumpet fanfare highlighting the different sampled libraries, and the members stepped up to the call! Now while the trumpet fanfare thread is still red hot, why don't we continue with the brass libraries featuring their beautiful tone? I think it would be extremely helpful for members, and people would have a chance to step up to the plate and represent the tools that they have chosen. You can represent one library or feel free to mix and match for the best possible, beautiful sound. The score is already in "C" so you do not need to transpose, and this piece is so easy you could play it in (not even any accidentals!) Feel free to add other brass instruments also such as flugelhorns or euphoniums. The original recording was scored for: 6 trumpets, 9 horns, 6 tenor trombones, 2 bass trombones, 3 euphoniums (doubling trombone 1 mostly when the horns came in,) and 2 tubas, but feel free to make it sound smaller if you wish.






Some might want to try just individual instruments, so I wrote legato melodies for trumpets, horns, trombones, and tubas. Feel free to be creative, add your own articulations, and dynamics. I kept the score in "C" and very simple so anyone could try.








2/10/15 EDIT: Flugelhorn Solo https://app.box.com/s/hvcdv2x10xgxwfr1oinfewotcidh9bgj


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 8, 2016)

Gee, I wish you had included a legato line for each. Nice sound. Is this an actual performance with real human being players?


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## Rodney Money (Feb 8, 2016)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Gee, I wish you had included a legato line for each.


The brass are pretty much playing legato, so feel free to add legato or slurs anywhere you like! Be creative.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 8, 2016)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Gee, I wish you had included a legato line for each. Nice sound. Is this an actual performance with real human being players?


Or did you want a melody for each instrument?


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## Rodney Money (Feb 8, 2016)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Gee, I wish you had included a legato line for each. Nice sound. Is this an actual performance with real human being players?


Oh yes, it's live.


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## NoamL (Feb 8, 2016)

Beautiful composition and arrangement Rodney, do I detect a little Eric Whitacre influence in there? 

I'm actually not sure sample libraries can tackle this piece at all. Those 6tpt playing unison _p_ creates a very beautiful silvery blurred sound, almost the opposite of the "Hollywood in a box" sound of many sample libs... but I'll give it a shot!


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## NoamL (Feb 8, 2016)

Alright, here's HWB.

*Hollywood Brass Gold*

The basic _p_ sound is nice but there just isn't much room at the bottom of the modwheel for expressive swells down there. So I didn't spend too much time here on a polished mockup. I'm sure other libraries can outperform. 

Everyone else jump in with your libraries!


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## Erik (Feb 9, 2016)

Hi Rodney,

Nice piece!

Herewith my contribution with VSL Brass libraries: Dimension Brass, horns a8, trumpets a6 and a3 (divided where needed). Since there is no specific tuba in the Dimension Brass I used the SE Tuba and Contratuba as second one.
Surrounding MIR - Sage Hall. I have used some plugins to get a (hopefully) better _brassy _result.

Here we go:

http://erikotte.nl/blog/BrassMoney/BBE-DB_only.mp3 (1. 4 horns DB - 4 trumpets DB - 4 trombones DB - tuba a 2 (VSL SE TU &amp; CTU))
http://erikotte.nl/blog/BrassMoney/BBE-sections+DBtrombones.mp3 (2. epic (8) horns - Fanfare (6)/2xa3 trumpets - trombones DB - tuba a2)
http://erikotte.nl/blog/BrassMoney/BBE-sections.mp3 (3. epic (8) horns - Fanfare (6)/2xa3 trumpets - 2x a3 trombones - tuba a2)
http://erikotte.nl/blog/BrassMoney/BBE-sections+DB.mp3 (4. all)
http://erikotte.nl/blog/BrassMoney/BBE-all_lookalikeverb.mp3 (5. bonus: verb surrounding (version 4) as in your version)

I have followed the original tempo as much as possible. Enjoy!


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 9, 2016)

Erik said:


> Hi Rodney,
> 
> Nice piece!
> 
> ...



That was beautiful. Not only great sounding, but very musical and sensitive. No slight on Rodney, but I think your version actually surpassed the live players in aesthetic impact.

I'm not sure of the technical reasons why, but I preferred your #1 example. Thank you so much for sharing this. It rekindles my interest in writing for samples.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Feb 9, 2016)

Alright, Mr. Moneyman!

First off: beautiful music. That was fun to try to replicate.

Here's my take on it - another VSL rendition. I tried to stay somewhat true to the performance and orchestration of the original recording.

These are Fanfare Trumpets (6), Epic Horns (8) + Solo Triple Horn on top = 9, 2x 3 Trombones, 2x Bass Trombones, and I decided to try and double the Tuba with a Contrabass Tuba. I have no Euphonium samples, so I had to omit those completely. It all sits in the MIRx Teldex venue, with an additional slight wash of QL Spaces on top.



These experiments are fun to do, but to me, they also instantly reveal the somewhat comedic attempt of trying to make samples sound like the real thing - as, I believe, my mockup overtly demonstrates.  Of course, low dynamics are among the toughest things to get right. It's so much easier to do the powerful stuff. It's noticeable how even good samples seem to be less detailed and responsive below _mf_. Also there's something bright and harsh about samples you just never can quite tame.

I really like the ambience in the real recording. Was that in a church? Another instant giveaway in real/samples comparisons. This kind of spacious softness is something that apparently truly can only be captured in a recording, but never quite simulated. And it's not even important if it's a "fake" algorithmic or convolution ambience or the presumably "real" recorded ambience of edited samples, where you pump snippets of an ambience of a recorded sample into the next one and the next one and the next one. It's all trickery and simply not really "happening" anywhere.

It's complaining about first world problems of course. All in all, it's quite remarkable how musical samples are able to sound - at least until you start directly A/Bing.


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## jason.d (Feb 9, 2016)

I'm impressed with everyone's renditions so far. It's really interesting to hear how each one is interpreted, as well as hearing the differences in tone between libraries/patches. I love listening to these exercises.


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## NoamL (Feb 9, 2016)

To my ear the VSL versions so far are much more convincing than HWB, which is interesting because it was the other way around in the fanfare thread.

I actually made my HWB version faster (80bpm) because... the sound at the bottom of the modwheel is totally flat. You can't get any expressive swells without edging into _mf_. So hearing the whole piece at 60 bpm of just flat playing would probably be unbearable.

Certainly nothing matches the live performance yet. Really humbling to have that as a comparison. Jimmy you're exactly right - VIs are getting really good at the 'first impression' of sounding real. But if someone pulls up an A/B... it's no contest.


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## NoamL (Feb 9, 2016)

Also, when I'm A/Bing something that *LEAPS *out is brass tone.

You know how brass can have two timbres? There's the bright edgy tone ("brassy") produced by fast tight air, and the warm blurry tone ("mellow") produced by a more relaxed embouchure?

For all of our mockups, when our samples get to the _forte_ passage the library starts thinking we want brassy. But Rodney's live players stay mellow because they understand the piece.

This is an absolute must for the next big brass library. I want an independent CC control so I can play loud and mellow.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Feb 9, 2016)

Yes, that's been one of the more difficult things to kind of dance around. Libraries usually start dipping into blare once you go forte and beyond. I can understand the reasoning behind it, as it is a sound one often has in mind for high brass dynamics. Brass is quite synonymous with blistering, metallic power in media music. You don't hear that wonderful regal tone like in Rodney's piece as often. That's somewhat of an acquired taste I guess and isn't the first thing people think of when they think "mellow" and "beautiful".

In this mockup, I tried to compromise around the velocity layer thresholds and sometimes actually kept the dynamics low, but pushed expression more. It doesn't work every time, because as you said, at times you just have to go further up in dynamics because the patches respond more detailed and lively there. One could spend days tweaking around these things.

For the Epic Horns, VSL has a separate "sus blare" patch that's different from the normal "sus". I think that should be expanded on for future libraries - designated patches that are dedicated to certain specific uses. But I imagine that soft dynamics as well as mellow sounding stuff is generally more difficult to sample convincingly. Just listen to the trombones in Rodney's piece ... it almost sounds like a choir, the way they smoothly diffuse in the ambience ... you can't really get there with samples as convincingly as you can make things really scream and blister.


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## Stiltzkin (Feb 9, 2016)

NoamL said:


> I want an independent CC control so I can play loud and mellow.



This kind of control (tonal choice between dynamics) is coming in a library I've recently finished and will be releasing soon. While it is initially a string library, I do plan on making brass after and it would support this functionality...


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## Rodney Money (Feb 9, 2016)

Just updated the thread with a chance for people to render individual brass instruments. Y'all guys and gals are awesome, keep those recordings coming!


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## prodigalson (Feb 9, 2016)

Rodney, your brass players have lungs of steel!


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## Rodney Money (Feb 9, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> Rodney, your brass players have lungs of steel!


You know it! Lol.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 9, 2016)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I really like the ambience in the real recording. Was that in a church? Another instant giveaway in real/samples comparisons. This kind of spacious softness is something that apparently truly can only be captured in a recording, but never quite simulated. And it's not even important if it's a "fake" algorithmic or convolution ambience or the presumably "real" recorded ambience of edited samples, where you pump snippets of an ambience of a recorded sample into the next one and the next one and the next one. It's all trickery and simply not really "happening" anywhere.
> 
> It's complaining about first world problems of course. All in all, it's quite remarkable how musical samples are able to sound - at least until you start directly A/Bing.


I want to respond later on the wonderful rendering, my friend, but first, the performance was in Boone, NC in Rosen Concert Hall on the campus of Appalachian State University. It's not much to look at, but it was built for one purpose: to make the pipe organ sound great. With all of the music majors who've prayed, "Oh God," in there hoping that their auditions and dreams don't fall apart, it might as well be a church.




Trumpets were to the far left, then trombones I believe, tubas center, euphoniums, and horns to the right of stage if memory serves me correctly.


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## iaink (Feb 9, 2016)

Here is a try with Sample Modeling:


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## Erik (Feb 10, 2016)

Thanks to all instructive posts here I have made a http://erikotte.nl/blog/BrassMoney/BBE-DS_only_softer.mp3 (less brassy version with Dimension Brass only).


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 10, 2016)

Erik, that was even more wonderful than your previous versions. I truly admire your ability to create a powerful, emotive phrase.


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## Erik (Feb 10, 2016)

Thank you Paul!


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## Paul T McGraw (Feb 10, 2016)

Rodney, this score is an excellent example of superb voice leading. I am mostly a fan of classical music, and in classical music the term would, I suppose, be counterpoint. The quality of the writing of each individual line becomes clear when I listen to your individual recordings of each part. Each line can stand on its own and have musical significance and merit in isolation, or when combined. I think it is this quality of excellent voice leading that is a prominent factor in making this short excerpt powerful.

Personally I find brass instruments very responsive to good counterpoint. Every bit as much as woodwind or string instruments. In my opinion we need multiple solo trumpets or multiple solo trombones, horns, etc. A library for brass similar to the Berlin Woodwinds library with multiple solo instruments for each brass category would be really awesome.

In the meantime, great job with this thread Rodney!


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

I could not post anymore Sound Cloud examples in the original thread, because it only allows 5, but here is VSL's solo Flugelhorn performing the trumpet's melody. The romantic, right side of my head pictures an alumni walking into the auditorium of his old alma mater serenading the empty hall recalling memories.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Rodney, this score is an excellent example of superb voice leading. I am mostly a fan of classical music, and in classical music the term would, I suppose, be counterpoint. The quality of the writing of each individual line becomes clear when I listen to your individual recordings of each part. Each line can stand on its own and have musical significance and merit in isolation, or when combined. I think it is this quality of excellent voice leading that is a prominent factor in making this short excerpt powerful.
> 
> Personally I find brass instruments very responsive to good counterpoint. Every bit as much as woodwind or string instruments. In my opinion we need multiple solo trumpets or multiple solo trombones, horns, etc. A library for brass similar to the Berlin Woodwinds library with multiple solo instruments for each brass category would be really awesome.
> 
> In the meantime, great job with this thread Rodney!


Thank you, my friend. I just hope more people will jump on board and try a rendering of either the full brass example or the individual ones. The sole purpose of this is to help people, inspire people to think differently about brass, and possibly give developers something to think about. I am going to do a VSL Solo Euphonium one also, hopefully very soon. If you like VSL, check out the above post with the flugelhorn performing the trumpet line.

I am a classical fan also, my friend, and thank you for noticing the counter-point and voice leading. I even avoided parallel 5ths! I understand when people say there should be no rules concerning music, but to me you need to know the rules before you can break or change them. On the other side of the coin though, I understand music came first, then the theory to try to explain it. I've personally noticed that when you write for live players, you start to pay strong attention to how each individual part will feel to play. No greater compliment have I ever received than when a performer tells me that they enjoyed playing their part, and my goal is to give each and every one of them something interesting to play. There's just something in me that wants each part to be as melodic as possible. I find that the performers will respond more expressively also as a whole. I know writing for samples can be quite different than writing for live players, but I've never been able to let myself press record and play string chords like a pad and be satisfied with the result internally thinking of live players.

I find brass to be very responsive to counter-point also, and I am anxiously awaiting for Berlin Brass one of these days.


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## gbar (Feb 10, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> but to me you need to know the rules before you can brake or change them.



You just need to know where the "brake" pedal is.

Snark quota fulfilled.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Feb 10, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> . I've personally noticed that when you write for live players, you start to pay strong attention to how each individual part will feel to play. No greater compliment have I ever received than when a performer tells me that they enjoyed playing their part, and my goal is to give each and every one of them something interesting to play. There's just something in me that wants each part to be as melodic as possible. I find that the performers will respond more expressively also as a whole. I know writing for samples can be quite different than writing for live players, but I've never been able to let myself press record and play strings chords like a pad and be satisfied with the result internally thinking of live players.



Totally agree with this. It makes a ton of difference, even if none of it will ever be performed by live players.


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## muk (Feb 10, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> I even avoided parallel 5ths!



Why 'even'? These rules (they are rather guidelines than strict rules) exist for good reason. In case of parallels, they should be avoided because individual lines stop being perceived as such when they move in parallel fifths/eights. Depending on the circumstances that is a problem - insofar as it doesn't sound good - or it isn't.
Your short chorale is a good example of that I find. The voice leading is indeed nice. Except for the one passage from measure 8 to nine. There's parallel fifths between Trombones and Trumpets, Tubas and Trumpets, and parallel eights between tubas and trombones. And you can clearly hear that: it doesn't sound good as the rest does. Apart from that short slip it's a very nice brass ensemble sound.

Anyway, thanks for the thread. I hope I find the time to jump in with a short example as well.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

gbar said:


> You just need to know where the "brake" pedal is.
> 
> Snark quota fulfilled.


Lol. I cannot spell or do math. Great eyes!


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

muk said:


> Why 'even'? These rules (they are rather guidelines than strict rules) exist for good reason. In case of parallels, they should be avoided because individual lines stop being perceived as such when they move in parallel fifths/eights. Depending on the circumstances that is a problem - insofar as it doesn't sound good - or it isn't.
> Your short chorale is a good example of that I find. The voice leading is indeed nice. Except for the one passage from measure 8 to nine. There's parallel fifths between Trombones and Trumpets, Tubas and Trumpets, and parallel eights between tubas and trombones. And you can clearly hear that: it doesn't sound good as the rest does. Apart from that short slip it's a very nice brass ensemble sound.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the thread. I hope I find the time to jump in with a short example as well.


I said I avoided them, I didn't say I didn't have them in there. That's the sound I wanted right there, tight harmony and so the tuba would be the only one who changed in measure 10. Thank you my friend for taking a look, and I hope you jump in there also to give an example.
EDIT: Just remembered also that I wanted to place major emphasis on the C, because it carries out until it finally resolves at the end, and I just did not care for how the G sounded played in the trombones at measure 9.


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## muk (Feb 10, 2016)

No problem, if that's what you wanted and the players liked it, it can't be bad.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

iaink said:


> Here is a try with Sample Modeling:



Awesome example, my friend, what samples did you use?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 10, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Awesome example, my friend, what samples did you use?


Sample Modeling? See above the trackpost. I know it was a long day :D


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Beautiful composition and arrangement Rodney, do I detect a little Eric Whitacre influence in there?


Lol, ah man, you know this means I have to come find you now and "deal" with you! Haha. I met Eric before, and we talked a long time about composing back in the day. He told me that he wished he could write melodies like me, but he said he could not and that's why all his music sounds the same. I wrote this piece well before I was held captive forced to play trumpet on October and Cloud Burst while his flowing blonde hair danced in the air while he conducted. 


AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Sample Modeling? See above the trackpost. I know it was a long day :D


Yes it was, we've been partying with my 3 year-old at her birthday party. Man, we party hard.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Alright, here's HWB.
> 
> *Hollywood Brass Gold*
> 
> ...


Thank you for doing this my friend. I always wondered how East West would sound on music such as this. Thank you for sharing it's strengths and being upfront about its weaknesses, and yes "EVERYONE ELSE JUMP IN!"


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

Erik said:


> Hi Rodney,
> 
> Nice piece!
> 
> ...


You the man, Erik! Thank you again, for your passion and taking the time to show what samples can do.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

iaink said:


> Here is a try with Sample Modeling:



I really like the room tone and what is that clicking sound around 0:54?


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Alright, Mr. Moneyman!
> 
> First off: beautiful music. That was fun to try to replicate.
> 
> ...



Jimmy is on Fire with his example! I am loving these VSL examples. Man, if only people with Cinesamples and Spitfire were just as passionate (yes, that was a challenge, lol.) Thank you for the compliments and your beautiful rendering. I only hope that developers will read your comments and take up the challenge of become more detailed in the lower dynamics. I am happy that you used the MIRx Teldex venue, I have been debating on getting it.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

jason.d said:


> I'm impressed with everyone's renditions so far. It's really interesting to hear how each one is interpreted, as well as hearing the differences in tone between libraries/patches. I love listening to these exercises.


It is fun, isn't it?!? I would also love to hear a Cinesamples, NI Symphony Brass (which should do well with this, maybe,) and a Spitfire also. Plus, people could just do the simply melodic phrases I posted also.


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## jason.d (Feb 10, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> It is fun, isn't it?!? I would also love to hear a Cinesamples, NI Symphony Brass (which should do well with this, maybe,) and a Spitfire also. Plus, people could just do the simply melodic phrases I posted also.



It _is_ fun! There was another thread about MIR vs SPAT vs origami and others. It was fun to hear not only the differences in results of the software, but also hearing everyone's mixing approach/techniques.

I've got Cinebrass and I'll do a version of this piece this weekend, as I'll have a few hours to put aside for it. (I don't want to do a rush job on a weeknight). 

I'm curious to hear NI Sym Brass & Bravura also.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

NoamL said:


> Also, when I'm A/Bing something that *LEAPS *out is brass tone.
> 
> You know how brass can have two timbres? There's the bright edgy tone ("brassy") produced by fast tight air, and the warm blurry tone ("mellow") produced by a more relaxed embouchure?
> 
> ...


Oh man, I could write a book on this post. I believe in this 100%. In the concert/ orchestral world we are taught and asked to play with a dark, rich, open tone even at loud dynamics. We literally play whole tones for years of our lives trying to perfect this. We are always thinking about tone and how we sound trying to blend with the person beside us, our section, and entire ensemble.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

jason.d said:


> It _is_ fun! There was another thread about MIR vs SPAT vs origami and others. It was fun to hear not only the differences in results of the software, but also hearing everyone's mixing approach/techniques.
> 
> I've got Cinebrass and I'll do a version of this piece this weekend, as I'll have a few hours to put aside for it. (I don't want to do a rush job on a weeknight).
> 
> I'm curious to hear NI Sym Brass & Bravura also.


Oh, awesome my friend! Thank you so much. I am very curious how a CineBrass version will sound like. I am sure it will help a lot of us out comparing libraries. Do you have both CineBrass Core and Pro?

Oh yes, the MIR vs SPAT vs origami vs VSS was definitely helpful especially to me.


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## jason.d (Feb 10, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Oh, awesome my friend! Thank you so much. I am very curious how a CineBrass version will sound like. I am sure it will help a lot of us out comparing libraries. Do you have both CineBrass Core and Pro?
> 
> Oh yes, the MIR vs SPAT vs origami vs VSS was definitely helpful especially to me.



I do have both core and pro


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Yes, that's been one of the more difficult things to kind of dance around. Libraries usually start dipping into blare once you go forte and beyond. I can understand the reasoning behind it, as it is a sound one often has in mind for high brass dynamics. Brass is quite synonymous with blistering, metallic power in media music. You don't hear that wonderful regal tone like in Rodney's piece as often. That's somewhat of an acquired taste I guess and isn't the first thing people think of when they think "mellow" and "beautiful".
> 
> In this mockup, I tried to compromise around the velocity layer thresholds and sometimes actually kept the dynamics low, but pushed expression more. It doesn't work every time, because as you said, at times you just have to go further up in dynamics because the patches respond more detailed and lively there. One could spend days tweaking around these things.
> 
> For the Epic Horns, VSL has a separate "sus blare" patch that's different from the normal "sus". I think that should be expanded on for future libraries - designated patches that are dedicated to certain specific uses. But I imagine that soft dynamics as well as mellow sounding stuff is generally more difficult to sample convincingly. Just listen to the trombones in Rodney's piece ... it almost sounds like a choir, the way they smoothly diffuse in the ambience ... you can't really get there with samples as convincingly as you can make things really scream and blister.


This post pretty much said everything I've ever wanted to say about brass samples. There is so much truth here, and I hope that developers take note. For example, since getting into samples and music technology, brass has been my number one complaint especially trombones and even the lack of euphoniums. I'm happy that we have our epic trombone whole-notes that can blow down a city, but if a developer truly captured the beauty of the trombone it would be simply breathtaking.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

Stiltzkin said:


> This kind of control (tonal choice between dynamics) is coming in a library I've recently finished and will be releasing soon. While it is initially a string library, I do plan on making brass after and it would support this functionality...


Do you have any sampled libraies that you've done so far?


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## Rodney Money (Feb 10, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> Rodney, your brass players have lungs of steel!


Oh by the way, did you mean the live ones?


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## prodigalson (Feb 10, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Oh by the way, did you mean the live ones?



lol, no


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## Chandler (Feb 10, 2016)

Here are the single melodies using Wivi band. I know nobody asked for them, but I wanted to give it a try.
If anyone has any tips on how to improve my programming of mixing, I'm all ears.

Trumpet
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-DDIrPOs0AXakpGakZxM3k2b3c/view?usp=sharing
Fr Horn
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-DDIrPOs0AXbFNuai1wdF8xT1U/view?usp=sharing
Trombone
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-DDIrPOs0AXRkY3ZHJxejdVNTg/view?usp=sharing
Tuba
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-DDIrPOs0AXVUNpalJ0N3RfbDg/view?usp=sharing


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## Rodney Money (Feb 11, 2016)

Chandler said:


> Here are the single melodies using Wivi band. I know nobody asked for them, but I wanted to give it a try.
> If anyone has any tips on how to improve my programming of mixing, I'm all ears.
> 
> Trumpet
> ...


Absolutely beautiful, my friend, extremely musical, and spot on. Of course we asked for Wivi, we asked for all brass samples. Where's the representatives now for Bravura, NI Symphonic Brass Series, Project SAM, and others? Here's your chance. Threads like this, and the fanfare thread makes people take a second look at the other libraries people talk less about. I have students' parents right now asking me what should they buy for their kids concerning music equipment. After listening to Wivi samples on this thread and the fanfare thread, it's honestly hard for me to justify to parents the cost of libraries such as Spitfire or Cinesamples, unless I hear something here that can prove me other wise.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 11, 2016)

BTW, just like you mix and match string libraries, feel free to mix and match brass libraries.


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## Stiltzkin (Feb 11, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Do you have any sampled libraies that you've done so far?



This is the first for the company - I just spent a lot of time scripting the "shell" of the instrument to ensure that it is as future proof as possible with regards to functionality, whiel still being simple to use.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 11, 2016)

Stiltzkin said:


> This is the first for the company - I just spent a lot of time scripting the "shell" of the instrument to ensure that it is as future proof as possible with regards to functionality, whiel still being simple to use.


Awesome, man. Here's wishing you much success in all your goals!


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## Rodney Money (Feb 11, 2016)

And here's a library you never hear from: Garritan Instant Orchestra. (I did the ending of the 6 minute piece.)


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## Rob (Feb 11, 2016)

for some reasons I can't hear the wivi examples posted... the player starts but then nothing happens... anyway, I have also done a wivi version, with the full player pro. Just to be clear, I still find wivi a very friendly and useful tool...

www.robertosoggetti.com/RodneyBrass-wivi.mp3


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## Rodney Money (Feb 11, 2016)

Rob said:


> for some reasons I can't hear the wivi examples posted... the player starts but then nothing happens... anyway, I have also done a wivi version, with the full player pro. Just to be clear, I still find wivi a very friendly and useful tool...
> 
> www.robertosoggetti.com/RodneyBrass-wivi.mp3


So delicate at the beginning and mellow, and then the horns steal the show when they come in. Very beautiful, my friend, lovely rendition, loved the panning, thank you for doing this, and I believe wivi is a very friendly and useful tool also! Your talent is the proof.


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## Rob (Feb 11, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> So delicate at the beginning and mellow, and then the horns steal the show when they come in. Very beautiful, my friend, lovely rendition, loved the panning, thank you for doing this, and I believe wivi is a very friendly and useful tool also! Your talent is the proof.



hehe you have a way with words, I noticed you were able to say something different to each post, nice attitude... thank you Rodney


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## Rodney Money (Feb 11, 2016)

Rob said:


> hehe you have a way with words, I noticed you were able to say something different to each post, nice attitude... thank you Rodney


I try my friend, but I mean every word of it also. Thank you once again for your passion to help.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 11, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> Rodney, your brass players have lungs of steel!


This has actually been on my mind for no other reason than my personal experience with playing solos and performing in ensembles. I am not referring to circular breathing, but we are often ask to stagger breathe and not breathe in the same spot in ensemble playing unless for other reasons destined by the conductor or score. I often hear on forums, "Your samples need to breathe like a real performer," well sometimes real performers try to sound connected, even soloists. This is the same brass ensemble playing a piece called Pilot Mountain. This isn't the best example of continuous sound, but notice how even the trumpet soloist goes longer and the other 5 trumpets attempt to continue the sound. We don't need to breathe every 4 measures. If anyone is interested, those are Harmon mutes, stem halfway out at the beginning, and since I know y'all like the loud stuff also, I included the ending. Those are 2 bass trombones and 2 tubas in the low parts. No need for cimbasso or contrabass trombone here, lol.


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## iaink (Feb 11, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Awesome example, my friend, what samples did you use?



Just sample modelling, nothing else. With a smaller group 3 / 3 / 4 / 1

The ambience is B2 + Altiverb.


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## Rob (Feb 11, 2016)

In the same vein as your Garritan orchestral offering, I've added strings parts to your piece, I hope you don't mind Rodney, it's for fun right? 

www.robertosoggetti.com/RodneyBrassRevisited.mp3


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## Rodney Money (Feb 11, 2016)

Rob said:


> In the same vein as your Garritan orchestral offering, I've added strings parts to your piece, I hope you don't mind Rodney, it's for fun right?
> 
> www.robertosoggetti.com/RodneyBrassRevisited.mp3


Alright, Rob is my new best friend. If that's what you do for fun, then I'm going to throw you a party! Alrighty then, now I am clicking "play" for the 20th time. Love it!


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## Pasticcio (Feb 11, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> It is fun, isn't it?!? I would also love to hear a Cinesamples...


Well, I tried... 

Thanks for the challenge & sharing the score, it's a great & fun little cue. Feel sorry I couldn't give it more time, but then again, I don't think I could ever make it justice compared to your live recording :D


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## Rodney Money (Feb 11, 2016)

Pasticcio said:


> Well, I tried...
> 
> Thanks for the challenge & sharing the score, it's a great & fun little cue. Feel sorry I couldn't give it more time, but then again, I don't think I could ever make it justice compared to your live recording :D



Just curious, did you change some of the notes?


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## Pasticcio (Feb 11, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Just curious, did you change some of the notes?


Oh, dude. I must've read a majority of the bass line transposed or something. Haha. What, you don't like my dissonances?

Sorry, updated the link. *goes back practicing sight-reading*


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## germancomponist (Feb 11, 2016)

Tell a brass player a joke and then let him play and then record his playing!


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## Pasticcio (Feb 11, 2016)

germancomponist said:


> Tell a brass player a joke and then let him play and then record his playing!


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## Rodney Money (Feb 11, 2016)

Pasticcio said:


> Oh, dude. I must've read a majority of the bass line transposed or something. Haha. What, you don't like my dissonances?
> 
> Sorry, updated the link. *goes back practicing sight-reading*


In a weird way I did like it, lol. I thought you were just making it dark and brooding.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 11, 2016)

Pasticcio said:


> Well, I tried...
> 
> Thanks for the challenge & sharing the score, it's a great & fun little cue. Feel sorry I couldn't give it more time, but then again, I don't think I could ever make it justice compared to your live recording :D



There ya go! Now I hear the right notes. Thank you for sharing the tone of Cinesamples with us.


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## Rob (Feb 11, 2016)

Still, I hear an E in the final chord that gives an unexpected hint of melancholy...


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## TGV (Feb 13, 2016)

Ok, here's my mockup using Bravura Brass from Impact Soundworks with a bit of reverb (B2). I think it sounds decent, except for the trombone chord at the end. I tried not to impart to much of a different interpretation. https://hearthis.at/tgv/is-bravura-beautiful-brass/

Edit: spot the wrong note!


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## Maestro1972 (Feb 13, 2016)

TGV said:


> . https://hearthis.at/tgv/is-bravura-beautiful-brass/


says it's Private


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## TGV (Feb 13, 2016)

Sorry, it's "unlisted" now.


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## Rob (Feb 13, 2016)

TGV said:


> Ok, here's my mockup using Bravura Brass from Impact Soundworks with a bit of reverb (B2). I think it sounds decent, except for the trombone chord at the end. I tried not to impart to much of a different interpretation. https://hearthis.at/tgv/is-bravura-beautiful-brass/
> 
> Edit: spot the wrong note!



I like the tone, it's pleasant and open... 
I hear more than one wrong note 
bar3 -trumpets go to f# on 3+ instead of holding G
bar 10 - tubas go to G instead of A
bar12 - swear I hear a low F mixed with the Gs


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## TGV (Feb 13, 2016)

Rob said:


> I like the tone, it's pleasant and open...
> I hear more than one wrong note
> bar3 -trumpets go to f# on 3+ instead of holding G
> bar 10 - tubas go to G instead of A
> bar12 - swear I hear a low F mixed with the Gs


Bar 3 I left in. I played it like that, and I actually like it, so I thought "what the heck". I even accentuated the D in the trombones there. Bar 10 I messed up. Oops. Bar 12: it would seem you're mistaken. I've tried replacing the Gs by an F, and it sounds ... quite different.

The sound is "out of the box", so it's 3 trumpets, 4 French horns, 3 trombones and 1 tuba. I used the "stacking" feature to duplicate the tubas and the solo trumpets in a few bars, lower the tubas 3dB, and raised the French horns 3dB, but made no further changes to the patches.


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## Rob (Feb 13, 2016)

I must be mistaken, it's like an acoustical illusion, I seem to hear a "ghost" F down there... never mind, I really like the timbre, it's a sweet brass sound.


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## mc_deli (Feb 13, 2016)

@storyteller Would love to hear someone with mad skillz with NI SSB with this one


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## Chandler (Feb 14, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Absolutely beautiful, my friend, extremely musical, and spot on. Of course we asked for Wivi, we asked for all brass samples. Where's the representatives now for Bravura, NI Symphonic Brass Series, Project SAM, and others? Here's your chance. Threads like this, and the fanfare thread makes people take a second look at the other libraries people talk less about. I have students' parents right now asking me what should they buy for their kids concerning music equipment. After listening to Wivi samples on this thread and the fanfare thread, it's honestly hard for me to justify to parents the cost of libraries such as Spitfire or Cinesamples, unless I hear something here that can prove me other wise.




Thanks. I think threads like this are great. They really allow people to compare products and also in my case work on my programming skills.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 14, 2016)

Chandler said:


> Thanks. I think threads like this are great. They really allow people to compare products and also in my case work on my programming skills.


That's exactly why I posted both this challenge and the fanfare thread. You can really start to hear the differences such as attacks, tones, and releases, and it gives people a chance to practice their rendering.


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## Erik (Feb 14, 2016)

I like the Bravura Brass very much, what a mellow sound!!


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## Rodney Money (Feb 14, 2016)

mc_deli said:


> @storyteller Would love to hear someone with mad skillz with NI SSB with this one


This large brass ensemble instrumentation was made for something like NI SSB, so let's hear it.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 14, 2016)

Erik said:


> I like the Bravura Brass very much, what a mellow sound!!


Absolutely. I am especially liking the very first tuba sound.


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## storyteller (Feb 14, 2016)

mc_deli said:


> @storyteller Would love to hear someone with mad skillz with NI SSB with this one



Thanks @mc_deli. I should be wrapping up a project I've been working on over this next week (it has been consuming all of my available time for now). But I think the score would work well with that particular sample library too. I'll be glad to give it a run with NI SSB as soon as I come up for air. I've been keeping my eye on this thread for that very purpose.


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## jason.d (Feb 15, 2016)

Here's another cinebrass version

http://d.pr/a/nZnR


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## Rodney Money (Feb 15, 2016)

jason.d said:


> Here's another cinebrass version
> 
> http://d.pr/a/nZnR


I am liking the sound, but the horn line is playing the wrong notes. The score is in "C" so you do not have to transpose.


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## jason.d (Feb 15, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> I am liking the sound, but the horn line is playing the wrong notes. The score is in "C" so you do not have to transpose.



Ahh, I totally butchered your piece. Sorry about that! Whenever I get some time, I'll go in there and see what the heck I did and re-export.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 15, 2016)

jason.d said:


> Ahh, I totally butchered your piece. Sorry about that! Whenever I get some time, I'll go in there and see what the heck I did and re-export.


Aw, you didn't butcher it, my friend, you just made it sound "modern."


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## NoamL (Feb 15, 2016)

Bravura Brass wins I think. What a captivating mellow sound, and the tuba is excellent...


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## renegade (Feb 17, 2016)

Just got an idea for a new reverb setup in my template for my Sample Modeling instruments.



...and with some strings, woodwinds and percussion:


...not completely satisfied myself, but I'm getting closer...I think


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## Maximvs (Feb 17, 2016)

Hi Renegade,

Nice work, I like those Sample Modeling Brass!

May I ask what string and woods libraries are you using in this examples?

All the best,

Max


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## jason.d (Feb 17, 2016)

renegade said:


> Just got an idea for a new reverb setup in my template for my Sample Modeling instruments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



nice work on the second one. Sounded really good!


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## renegade (Feb 17, 2016)

Massimo said:


> Hi Renegade,
> 
> Nice work, I like those Sample Modeling Brass!
> 
> ...



Hi Max

Sure, it's Hollywood Strings mixed some places with LASS (the violins and cellos). The woods are from Albion 1 mixed with (a touch of) Sample Modeling.

Thanks!

-René

EDIT: I have just replaced them with new mixes, with a little wider stereo placement


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## Rodney Money (Feb 20, 2016)

renegade said:


> Hi Max
> 
> Sure, it's Hollywood Strings mixed some places with LASS (the violins and cellos). The woods are from Albion 1 mixed with (a touch of) Sample Modeling.
> 
> ...


It's so cool that you used Hollywood Strings, I've beven debating on another string instrument to compliment Cinestrings, so I thank you for using it for the rendering!


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## prodigalson (Feb 20, 2016)

renegade said:


> Just got an idea for a new reverb setup in my template for my Sample Modeling instruments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sounds great. That cinesamples room tone sticks out like a sore thumb at the top though! I always edit object drop out when I use it. Why the hell they left that noise in I have no idea.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 20, 2016)

prodigalson said:


> Sounds great. That cinesamples room tone sticks out like a sore thumb at the top though! I always edit object drop out when I use it. Why the hell they left that noise in I have no idea.


For "realism," lol, my ears said Cinesamples room tone also as soon as I heard it.


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## renegade (Feb 21, 2016)

Thanks! I guess I'll have to turn room tone down a notch then 


Rodney Money said:


> It's so cool that you used Hollywood Strings, I've beven debating on another string instrument to compliment Cinestrings, so I thank you for using it for the rendering!


You can't go wrong with HS. They are among the best out there on both sound and playbility IMO. Maybe a little confusing with all the different patches, but there isn't much you can't do with HS. As always it comes down to workflow and taste, I've heard great (and less great) things from pretty much all String samples out there.

Great and beautiful little brass piece btw


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## Rodney Money (Jun 7, 2016)

renegade said:


> Thanks! I guess I'll have to turn room tone down a notch then
> 
> You can't go wrong with HS. They are among the best out there on both sound and playbility IMO. Maybe a little confusing with all the different patches, but there isn't much you can't do with HS. As always it comes down to workflow and taste, I've heard great (and less great) things from pretty much all String samples out there.
> 
> Great and beautiful little brass piece btw


Thank you, my friend, and thank you for the additional information concerning hs.


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## WindcryMusic (Jun 9, 2016)

I completely missed this thread the first time it was posted, so apologies for being late to the party. 

Someone asked for a version of this using NI/SoundIron Symphony Series Brass Collection, and I didn't see that anyone had posted a version using those samples, so here is my late contribution using SSBC. (And by the way, lovely piece of music, Rodney!)


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## storyteller (Jun 9, 2016)

WindcryMusic said:


> I completely missed this thread the first time it was posted, so apologies for being late to the party.
> 
> Someone asked for a version of this using NI/SoundIron Symphony Series Brass Collection, and I didn't see that anyone had posted a version using those samples, so here is my late contribution using SSBC. (And by the way, lovely piece of music, Rodney!)




Glad you got a chance to do that with NI SSB. I had intended to mock it up with it when the thread got started but time got away from me. Sounds great! I think the horns have a certain "noble" timbre to them.


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## Rodney Money (Jun 12, 2016)

WindcryMusic said:


> I completely missed this thread the first time it was posted, so apologies for being late to the party.
> 
> Someone asked for a version of this using NI/SoundIron Symphony Series Brass Collection, and I didn't see that anyone had posted a version using those samples, so here is my late contribution using SSBC. (And by the way, lovely piece of music, Rodney!)



Thank you for doing this and showing the libraies's strengths which seems to be warm ensembles with a wide sound. Wonderful job!


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## cadenzajon (Sep 16, 2016)

Spitfire got left out in the initial round, I would love to hear how their new SSB treats this theme...


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## Rodney Money (Sep 16, 2016)

cadenzajon said:


> Spitfire got left out in the initial round, I would love to hear how their new SSB treats this theme...


Me too!


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