# Is Cakewalk really free? And is it good for newbies?



## Mike Greene (Jan 24, 2021)

A number of people who buy Hip Hop Creator don't have any experience with DAWs, so they often ask which one they should get. It's obviously a very complex question, but I saw something last week about Cakewalk being free, which would make that question a whole lot easier.

So ... is there a catch?


----------



## petec (Jan 24, 2021)

Cakewalk is FREE. As far as I understand it, there is no catch.
Having used the program, particularly when it was SONAR and paid for, it has plenty to offer and can be quite complex for the newcomer.

However, it's been a long time favourite of many. It has many features and bells and whistles - just like other DAWS. My recommendation is to get it while it is still free and before they decide to add a 'catch'.

Do I still use it? Not really. I went to Studio One when Gibson sold out on it. But I still occasionally use it to access older tracks, or to obtain updates. Yes, the software is still in continuous update.

The quality is excellent, despite it being one of the older members of the DAW fraternity.


----------



## Mike Greene (Jan 24, 2021)

petec said:


> ... and can be quite complex for the newcomer.


Do you think _too_ complex? I'm doing a little poking around, and I see a $99 version of FL Studio. I wonder if that's a better choice for these guys? Or Ableton Live?


----------



## Giscard Rasquin (Jan 24, 2021)

I used SONAR for quite a while until, like the previous person mentioned, it was sold by Gibson. It then also changed name to Cakewalk by Bandlab. 
Having been with Cubase now for some years, I think it’s a better DAW for composing then Cakewalk but I’d definitely recommend it for newbies (and have done to friends). 
It’s a very complete DAW, it works great and best of all, it’s free!

Edit: to respond to the previous post, I don’t think it’s that complicated to be honest. It’s quite similar to Cubase as well, so when I changed to Cubase, it didn’t take me long at all to learn my way around which could be a plus point for those starting out in Cakewalk and then maybe later on changing to Cubase.


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Jan 24, 2021)

Cakewalk is indeed free, and it's very capable. It would normally be my recommendation for somebody needing a DAW on the cheap.
But if the goal is specifically Hip Hop or EDM, FL Studio would be the better choice, largely due to the available resources/tutorials and communities to help you along the way.


----------



## widescreen (Jan 24, 2021)

I started as a total newbie with Cakewalk one year ago. What looked first promising, turned to a frustrating experience. I connected more and more peripherals. With every single one there were issues to solve. Very frustrating.
Then tried Studio One a few months ago. Cakewalk is really complicated against that one. Every peripheral worked nearly plug and play. The workflow is much more intuitive.
At Ask.Audio, Groove3 etc you can get comprehensive courses, if you want to learn it that way. For Cakewalk there is no comparable thing, just snippets on single tasks, nothing structured. Only for the old Sonar.
I got a cheap used Professional license. I am so happy!
I like Cakewalk still for its GUI. But "the better is the good one's enemy" (don't know if it is correctly translated).
If you stay with Cakewalk, search for Creative Sauce on YouTube. Best tutorials for Cakewalk, also some for S1. 😉


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 24, 2021)

Cakewalk is now way ahead of S1 with real usable articulation maps. Video thumbnails it had quite some time. No retrospective record though. 

But for Hiphop I'd use Akai's free MPC Beats or the Standard version, if anybody needs more tracks later - but the track count really is the only difference, no other limitations in the free version.





Free DAW Software MPC Beats | Akai Pro


MPC Beats is the free beat making software DAW with Drum Programming, Sampling and Audio Recording built on the legendary MPC music production hardware.




www.akaipro.com


----------



## jonathanparham (Jan 24, 2021)

Akai MPC beats is good. I could see your hip hop creator plugged into it but it might be overkill


----------



## SlHarder (Jan 24, 2021)

Cakewalk definitely meets all my needs as hobbyist who is into orchestral music. The recent addition of arranger and articulation maps (can import Cubase expression maps) have been big improvements. The developers aggressively work at improving and expanding Cakewalk. Updates come out incrementally through the year rather than 1 big upgrade. And I think someone else mentioned it is completely FREE!


----------



## FlyingAndi (Jan 24, 2021)

I don't find cakewalk too complicated but I've been using it like forever.
I last year I taught a friend who had never used a daw before how he could record his vocals in a 1.5 hour video conference.
And definatley check out the creative sauce aka @Mike Enjo tutorials for cakewalk. You should get a good impression from those:


----------



## estolad (Jan 24, 2021)

Cakewalk is Windows only though. But it's incredible value.


----------



## chillbot (Jan 24, 2021)

Cakewalk is maybe a bit on the complicated side, this comes from constant evolving and adding features over the last 30+ years. It is very adequate (at best) for orchestral and production music, but they actively pursue the hobbyist and songwriting crowd while packing in bloatware and ignoring stability issues.

I've used it for over 30 years with a small hiatus to Opcode Studio Vision briefly. To answer your question @Mike Greene, there is no catch whatsoever.


----------



## tf-drone (Jan 24, 2021)

TBH, I am sceptical with Cakewalk. Not with the app itself, but the homepage has not had a change in about two years. Who knows how long it will last.

The everlasting trial version of Reaper and the aforementioned MPC are better choices IMHO. And if you buy an audio interface, Ableton Live Lite often comes with it. Another viable option.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 24, 2021)

tf-drone said:


> TBH, I am sceptical with Cakewalk. Not with the app itself, but the homepage has not had a change in about two years. Who knows how long it will last.


That's the original Cakewalk (Gibson) webpage, this site won't change any more 





Cakewalk - The World's Best Software For Recording And Making Music On PC And Mac


Cakewalk develops computer software for recording and making music. Our products include award-winning digital audio workstations for PC, fully-integrated music making software and recording hardware, and innovative soft-synth virtual instruments for PC and Mac.




www.cakewalk.com




The current one:








BandLab: Make Music Online


The cloud platform where musicians and fans create music, collaborate, and engage with each other across the globe




www.bandlab.com


----------



## MisteR (Jan 24, 2021)

Tracktion Waveform Free works on all platforms, even ubuntu and raspbian. https://www.tracktion.com/products/waveform-free


----------



## Mike Greene (Jan 24, 2021)

Thanks guys. I think I'll steer them towards FL Studio, since that's probably going to be the closest match for their needs, plus I imagine it's a bit easier for a newbie than Cakewalk, which it sounds like is more full featured.

"Easy" is the name of the game, because we get tech support questions from at least half the Hip Hop Creator customers, which is crazy high. It is *not* a tech savvy group. (Sunset Strings is at the other end of the spectrum, where a tech support question is very rare.)


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 24, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> Thanks guys. I think I'll steer them towards FL Studio, since that's probably going to be the closest match for their needs, plus I imagine it's a bit easier for a newbie than Cakewalk, which it sounds like is more full featured.


I seriously would advise they use MPC Software, like Fl they at least have heard the name (MPC hardware units were famous, don't know about now) and is easier than FL, although the workflow is almost the same (you also mainly use the step sequencer).
Just some random google result:








Meet the unassuming drum machine that changed music forever


Created 30 years ago, the AKAI Music Production Center is still vital to today’s popular music.




www.vox.com


----------



## Mike Greene (Jan 24, 2021)

My concern with the MPC software is that with its pads layout, it looks a lot like Hip Hop Creator, so I imagine some people getting it and saying, _"Hey, why do I need Hip Hop Creator when this is so similar and free?"_

Hip Hop Creator goes much further that, of course, but a newbie might not understand the subtleties of why. So I don't want to lead them down that path.


----------



## petec (Jan 24, 2021)

Cakewalk is fine, when you're used to using a major DAW.
A learner/newbie will need to get into something fairly quickly and with minimal frustration.
Better to choose something that's easy, straightforward and has a bias towards the type of music that they are into.

Some great suggestions given above/earlier. Just because some things are free doesn't mean it's going to meet the needs. When starting with the basics, it's an easier ladder to climb.


----------



## vitocorleone123 (Jan 24, 2021)

MisteR said:


> Tracktion Waveform Free works on all platforms, even ubuntu and raspbian. https://www.tracktion.com/products/waveform-free


Totally the one I'd recommend 100%.

Free. Step sequencer. Chord track (and chord generator). Low latency. Easy layout to learn - especially if you're not coming from a hardcore DAW already, since it's instruments on the left make music in the middle, with output and effects on the right. The only thing it's not as amazing at is the bundled effects. It's definitely aimed at electronic and beat-driven music rather than, say, orchestral.


----------



## Tren (Jan 25, 2021)

tf-drone said:


> TBH, I am sceptical with Cakewalk. Not with the app itself, but the homepage has not had a change in about two years. Who knows how long it will last.
> 
> The everlasting trial version of Reaper and the aforementioned MPC are better choices IMHO. And if you buy an audio interface, Ableton Live Lite often comes with it. Another viable option.


Almost no one cares about them updating the home page. Really, that's a really odd reason for skepticism... If you want to know the gist of the DAW, go to the old Cakewalk page and look there.

Updating a website makes more sense for a paid product. With Cakewalk, you don't need to read about it. Just download it and see for yourself...

A Reference Manual is available, if needed.


----------



## Tren (Jan 25, 2021)

I wouldn't use Cakewalk for EDM or Hip Hop, personally. I would even use Samplitude Pro X over Cakewalk, as it has better MIDI Editing and exponentially better Audio Editing. That's how I generally think Cakewalk stacks up.

I don't know how SONAR survived so long with such a terrible drum editor, drum maps system, tempo editing, marker system, etc. It must have niched itself off to a certain userbase that simply doesn't care about that stuff, so they never had enough heat on them to actually improve in those areas (add to the fanboys going out of their way to make even the worst aspects of their choice DAW seem amazing... the old SONAR forums seemed to be full of these people)... It's nice that they are adding new features, but they really need to go back and finish what they started in other areas.

I did a live stream with it because my viewers were constantly asking me to do it, and it felt very inconvenient to use. IMO, it was saved by the fact that I already own a lot of the VI and Utility Plug-ins to make up for its lacks. Without them, I wouldn't have ended the stream within 15 minutes because a lot of the freebies that the people on the Cakewalk forums seem to be obsessed with feel awful to use.

IMO, Studio One picked up where SONAR left off - when the company decided developing more redundant plugins and bundling 3rd party software was more important than developing the base daw - and ran with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Studio One leeched more users from SONAR than any other DAW, on Windows - before the SONAR shut-down (not counting the refugees).

IMO, Cakewalk feels more like Logic Pro 9 (X, by extension) than Cubase. That's generally fine, but I really dislike how they have broken the menus up and put a different menu system in every panel. That makes things look nice (you know how people exaggerate about massive menu bars), but in practice it, makes feature discovery a nightmare.

1. It is truly free.
2. I don't think the website has anything to do with the long term viability of the product. Even if development slowed, it doesn't really cost BandLab anything to simply maintain the product as is, and Windows is more predictable when it comes to backward/forward compatibility than macOS. The current version can work for a decade without issues, theoretically.
3. I would recommend it to newbies. But if you're serious about making music, there are [easily] better choices. I am not sure how fast the developers can work to get the DAW to a state where I'd [personally] consider it competitive with the heavyweights of the industry... But if you're comparing to something like ACID Pro or Mixcraft Pro Studio... it looks great!


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 26, 2021)

Tren said:


> I wouldn't use Cakewalk for EDM or Hip Hop, personally.


Me neither, same as all other traditional DAWs. But it at least has a clip launcher, the Matrix view, although not the best. 



Tren said:


> I would even use Samplitude Pro X over Cakewalk, as it has better MIDI Editing and exponentially better Audio Editing.


As múch as I like Samplitude for audio, it is seriously lacking in MIDI. 
Cakewalk's MIDI as it is now with articulation maps I prefer out of all DAWs but Live 11. But retrospective recording is still lacking. And you need to use CAL scripting to add things like transposing MIDI using keybindings. 
Also because of the usable sequencer and the drum maps. 




Tren said:


> I don't know how SONAR survived so long with such a terrible drum editor, drum maps system,


Yes, drum maps are complicated with their routing, but that is because they are that mughty. You can set the MIDI channel and receiving track for each row in the drum máp, they are not bound to a single track or instrument. 
So on the contrary, they are the best of all I know! 



Tren said:


> marker system,


Cakewalk needs to add regions, their arranger regions are no real substitute



Tren said:


> Without them, I wouldn't have ended the stream within 15 minutes because a lot of the freebies that the people on the Cakewalk forums seem to be obsessed with feel awful to use.



Pro Channel with analog modelling channel strips (SSL, Neve and???), the 2 analog compressors, tapesim and saturation and EQ... is usable. 
Breverb is one of the better reverbs and free Melodyne Essential is also OK. 


Tren said:


> IMO, Studio One picked up where SONAR left off -


Yes, they are now the ones with half finished features, a really unfriendly fórum and users and a support that always blames the plugins. 



Tren said:


> IMO, Cakewalk feels more like Logic Pro 9 (X, by extension) than Cubase.


Yes, that's why I like and use it  




Tren said:


> 3. I would recommend it to newbies. But if you're serious about making music, there are [easily] better choices.


There are even people who are using Cubase to make serious music, so Cakewalk is already better than that. 

No, really, Cubase is the last DAW I like to use, with S1 a close second (Ardour/Mixbus for MIDI, but they don't really do MIDI). So, as always, depends on each person.
But in the end Cakewalk, Reaper, Cubase, Studio One and Samplitude are the samé DAW, with Samplitude and Reaper being great at audio.
Live, Bitwig, FL and Tracktion's Waveform (Tracktion have so many good ideas to do things differently) are special


----------



## lychee (Jan 26, 2021)

To the first question is that Cakewalk's free, we've already given you the answer, so what does it cost you to just give it a try to make your own opinion?
To the second question, from my point of view I do not find it complex, it may not be the most user friendly but that does not mean that it requires an infinite period of adaptation.
A 30-year-old professional program that suddenly becomes free, I can't see what's holding you back from trying?


----------



## giwro (Jan 26, 2021)

The only caveat I have for Cakewalk is that in order to use it, you had to create a login and install the BandLab software (last time I tried it). I got it installed and deleted the BandLab login software, then Cakewalk would no longer work. I get it, they want to drive you to BandLab if you're gonna use the free software - I just didn't care for that paradigm.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 26, 2021)

giwro said:


> The only caveat I have for Cakewalk is that in order to use it, you had to create a login and install the BandLab software (last time I tried it). I got it installed and deleted the BandLab login software, then Cakewalk would no longer work. I get it, they want to drive you to BandLab if you're gonna use the free software - I just didn't care for that paradigm.


They changed that with the last update. No more Bandlab Assistant needed. That's actually why I only for a short period tested it in 2019, and only started using it with 2020.11


> In-app activation. You can now activate Cakewalk directly from within the app, without requiring BandLab Assistant.











Cakewalk by BandLab Release Notes


Cakewalk by BandLab Release Notes For details, see New Features. Download the Cakewalk Reference Guide PDF from here. Version 2020.11 Enhancements in Update 1 (build 26.11.0.099) Extract key switches that already exist in a MIDI track and convert them to articulations. Replace an existing artic...




docs.google.com


----------



## chillbot (Jan 26, 2021)

giwro said:


> The only caveat I have for Cakewalk is that in order to use it, you had to create a login and install the BandLab software (last time I tried it). I got it installed and deleted the BandLab login software, then Cakewalk would no longer work. I get it, they want to drive you to BandLab if you're gonna use the free software - I just didn't care for that paradigm.


Not saying your account is not accurate, I'm sure it is. But my personal experience is I've never had to touch Bandlab except to install Cakewalk. I don't even know what Bandlab is, to be honest. It might be on my computer, it might not, but I don't ever have to touch it for anything.

When Bandlab took over Cakewalk my user account was imported over I didn't have to sign up or do anything, it was actually pretty slick. They even kept my same username "matt" which I'm sort of proud of, having had it since the early days of Cakewalk and not sure you can get away with four-letter usernames anymore...

The only thing I don't like about Bandlab is the name, it will always be SONAR to me.


----------



## mk-oh-one (Jan 26, 2021)

tf-drone said:


> TBH, I am sceptical with Cakewalk. Not with the app itself, but the homepage has not had a change in about two years. Who knows how long it will last.
> 
> The everlasting trial version of Reaper and the aforementioned MPC are better choices IMHO. And if you buy an audio interface, Ableton Live Lite often comes with it. Another viable option.


Have a looked at this: https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/24635-closed-202101-early-access/ 

They are continually developing it and actively seeking user feedback.


----------



## giwro (Jan 26, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> They changed that with the last update. No more Bandlab Assistant needed. That's actually why I only for a short period tested it in 2019, and only started using it with 2020.11
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I went to download it, and it still wants you to install the Band Lab assistant and login in order to install... so it sort of _does_ require it. I've no quarrel with that, they are offering a free product. I just don't need another vendor sending me emails...


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 26, 2021)

giwro said:


> Well, I went to download it, and it still wants you to install the Band Lab assistant and login in order to install... so it sort of _does_ require it. I've no quarrel with that, they are offering a free product. I just don't need another vendor sending me emails...


Oh, yes, that's unfortunately still needed. But you can deinstall it afterwards, it's not needed any more. You also get the cakewalk installer (and installers for each update) as a normal file.


----------



## rnb_2 (Jan 26, 2021)

I would cast another vote for Tracktion's free version.

I got back into music after decades away via ROLI's MPE hardware, and it came with a free license for an older free version of Tracktion. I messed with that a bit once I decided to try using a computer for music (I had been using just my iPad), and found Tracktion very understandable, having not touched anything resembling a DAW since using Bars & Pipes Pro on my Amiga in the 90s. As others have noted, it has a pretty understandable flow to how it's set up.

I eventually took advantage of a sale to upgrade to the full version of Tracktion, along with some of their (pretty excellent) add-ons, so while I don't actively use it these days, some of my purchases are still usable in other DAWs. The developers are pretty helpful on their KVR forum, as well.


----------



## giwro (Jan 26, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> Oh, yes, that's unfortunately still needed. But you can deinstall it afterwards, it's not needed any more. You also get the cakewalk installer (and installers for each update) as a normal file.


But it apparently still has to "phone home" every 6 months or so...

I'll pass.


----------



## AmbientMile (Jan 26, 2021)

+1 for Tracktion's Waveform. The free version is full featured and great for a first DAW. Also, the path to the pro version is usually on sale for I think $70 a few times a year. Lots of cool tools for beginners as well (Chord Companion, Step clips, etc.)


----------



## Kony (Jan 26, 2021)

Cakewalk seems to be good - I haven't used it but I've been watching Scott Buckley's Twitch streams and it seems to be on a par with most DAWs, if not better than most. Surprising that it's free.

Here's a link to Scott's Twitch channel if anyone's interested - he's currently composing tracks for a new game being produced by Stutterfox.


----------



## lychee (Jan 26, 2021)

giwro said:


> But it apparently still has to "phone home" every 6 months or so...
> 
> I'll pass.


I use Cakewalk every day, and I don't know what you're talking about.
If your fear is that your email address will be sold to others, you just have to create a trash email just for this kind of case.
Afterwards as @ReleaseCandida says, you can uninstall Bandlab Assistant, Cakewalk will still work and can be updated by the program itself.
You should know that the Bandlab Assistant is not just for installing Cakewalk, it allows you to use the Bandlab web sequencer, which you can use on your desktop computer as well as on your phone, to allow you to sketch away from home, then import your work into Cakewalk.


----------



## bosone (Jan 27, 2021)

I also use cakewalk and I'm a pretty advanced user, i think. being on it since Cakewalk pro audio 9, then sonar pro, now CW by Bandlab.
absolutely everything you may need. if you want to hear it in use, all my production (see my website or youtube channel) is made by cakewalk.

you simply cannot go wrong with it...

and yes, it's free...


----------



## Markrs (Jan 27, 2021)

Kony said:


> Cakewalk seems to be good - I haven't used it but I've been watching Scott Buckley's Twitch streams and it seems to be on a par with most DAWs, if not better than most. Surprising that it's free.
> 
> Here's a link to Scott's Twitch channel if anyone's interested - he's currently composing tracks for a new game being produced by Stutterfox.



Thanks for the link to musoscientific, now following on Twitch. Only problem I always forget about twitch as I use YouTube more.


----------



## Kony (Jan 27, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Thanks for the link to musoscientific, now following on Twitch. Only problem I always forget about twitch as I use YouTube more.


I think Twitch has a notifications bell so you can get alerts when he streams. Having said that, Scott streams regularly at:

Tuesday - 7pm
Thursday - 7pm
Saturday - 7pm

All times are CET - if you miss a stream, the videos are available on twitch for several weeks.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 27, 2021)

lychee said:


> You should know that the Bandlab Assistant is not just for installing Cakewalk, it allows you to use the Bandlab web sequencer, which you can use on your desktop computer as well as on your phone, to allow you to sketch away from home, then import your work into Cakewalk.


Oh, thanks, didn't know that!


----------



## Tren (Jan 27, 2021)

ReleaseCandidate said:


> As múch as I like Samplitude for audio, it is seriously lacking in MIDI.
> Cakewalk's MIDI as it is now with articulation maps I prefer out of all DAWs but Live 11. But retrospective recording is still lacking. And you need to use CAL scripting to add things like transposing MIDI using keybindings.
> Also because of the usable sequencer and the drum maps.


That's a complete misnomer. Samplitude's MIDI editing is stronger than Cakewalk's.

Articulation maps only matter if you're using Virtual Instruments with keyswitches. For something like EDM, why would I load a KS patch when I only need Spiccatos?

Live's Piano Roll is anemic.


ReleaseCandidate said:


> Yes, drum maps are complicated with their routing, but that is because they are that mughty. You can set the MIDI channel and receiving track for each row in the drum máp, they are not bound to a single track or instrument.
> So on the contrary, they are the best of all I know!


The Drums Map implementation in Cakewalk is cancerous.


ReleaseCandidate said:


> Pro Channel with analog modelling channel strips (SSL, Neve and???), the 2 analog compressors, tapesim and saturation and EQ... is usable.


Eh... That depends on what you're looking for. Or if you even know what you're looking for.


ReleaseCandidate said:


> Breverb is one of the better reverbs and free Melodyne Essential is also OK.


You can get far better iZotope Reverbs for next to nothing, and Melodyne Essential is not free. It's a Trial version in Cakewalk by BandLab. It's only Free if you got it as a bundle with SONAR Platinum or another DAW (what doesn't bundle Melodyne Essential, these days?).


ReleaseCandidate said:


> Yes, they are now the ones with half finished features, a really unfriendly fórum and users and a support that always blames the plugins.


Hard Disagree.



ReleaseCandidate said:


> There are even people who are using Cubase to make serious music, so Cakewalk is already better than that.


You're delusional.


ReleaseCandidate said:


> No, really, Cubase is the last DAW I like to use, with S1 a close second (Ardour/Mixbus for MIDI, but they don't really do MIDI). So, as always, depends on each person.


What tyou like to use doesn't mean it's better. I don't even know why you like it. You could be stanning it simply because it costs nothing - which wouldn't surprise me.

Cakewalk's MIDI is mid-2000's level. Do not confuse its reputation with being a great MIDI Sequencer back in the day with proficient in 2021 vs. what other competitors are bringing after much more aggressive development in that area.


ReleaseCandidate said:


> But in the end Cakewalk, Reaper, Cubase, Studio One and Samplitude are the samé DAW, with Samplitude and Reaper being great at audio.


No, they are not the same DAW. I don't even know what you're pretending to mean by that, as you seem to be serious about meaning this literally. Samplitude is not just better at audio, it also has better MIDI editing than Cakewalk. Go and use it, you will see. Cakewalk only has a few specific feature areas where it ticks a box where Samplitude doesn't.

I can do a live stream comparing the two, but do you REALLY want that to happen/be out there?


ReleaseCandidate said:


> Live, Bitwig, FL and Tracktion's Waveform (Tracktion have so many good ideas to do things differently) are special


Those DAWs were designed with a pretty obvious bias to specific markets. They aren't pretending to be great "Generalist" DAWs.

Cakewalk is good enough for the price asked - NOTHING. But let's not oversell it. The DAW was pretty laggard in development for about a decade or more before they shut it down. The new development is a breath of fresh air for that reason - but this is primarily why it has so many areas of the application that need attention.


----------



## chillbot (Jan 27, 2021)

Tren said:


> Cakewalk is good enough for the price asked - NOTHING. But let's not oversell it


Just curious, why do you hate Cakewalk? Did it offend you in some way, maybe called you an ugly baby as an ugly baby? I mean... it's free. If you don't like it there's a pretty easy solution to not using it, it won't cost you a cent or even any effort at all!


----------



## Tren (Jan 27, 2021)

chillbot said:


> Just curious, why do you hate Cakewalk? Did it offend you in some way, maybe called you an ugly baby as an ugly baby? I mean... it's free. If you don't like it there's a pretty easy solution to not using it, it won't cost you a cent or even any effort at all!


Why would I hate a software product?

I think a more interesting question is why you're reacting to someone's opinion of a piece of software in the way you do.

It's bits and bytes. It can go away tomorrow and I wouldn't blink twice.

I don't understand you people who develop such affinities to software products. Put that energy into a person, instead.

(Does that satiate your curiosity?)

Don't come here and tell me that Cakewalk and Cubase are practically the same. That's laughable. Just because I laugh at that assertion doesn't mean I hate the product.

I am just a realist, and I don't feel the need to sugar coat any discussion I may have about a product simply because it's cheap and/or "underdog" - nor do I care to kowtow to the cultish tendencies of the stans that tend to congregate around them.

The Samplitude people have the same complaints that you have re: criticism, for the same reasons. It isn't perfect, either.


----------



## chillbot (Jan 27, 2021)

Tren said:


> (Does that satiate your curiosity?)


It seemed like above and beyond effort with the pages of quotes to bash a piece of software that is free. I don't get it. Cakewalk is legit against any other DAW if you put in the time to learn it.

Forgive me for being somewhat attached to a program that I've spent maybe 50,000 hours using (literally) and also invested a lot of money in over the years only to see it get it get slammed as a freebie, I guess.


----------



## Tren (Jan 27, 2021)

chillbot said:


> It seemed like above and beyond effort with the pages of quotes to bash a piece of software that is free. I don't get it. Cakewalk is legit against any other DAW if you put in the time to learn it.
> 
> Forgive me for being somewhat attached to a program that I've spent maybe 50,000 hours using (literally) and also invested a lot of money in over the years only to see it get it get slammed as a freebie, I guess.


The person I responded to quoted me piece by piece. I responded.

That's not above and beyond effort, that's normal forum etiquette. I responded in kind because I assume he put as much thought into his reply as I put into my initial post. That's called respect.

Do you have a point, beyond that?

I don't grow attached to software products. My world view differs from yours. Leave it at that. I will not debate it. Cakewalk is not your wife.

It is a freebie. It has been starved of development resources for a decade or more, while the company that owned it preferred to package more plugins, loop packs, expansion packs, and 3rd party products instead. That is fact. The entire change log back several years (up until the shutdown) is available at cakewalk.com - if you would like to reference that, at least.

That is not hatred. That is reality. Software is not worth that kind of energy. Maybe for you, but definitely not for me.

And I'd rather write a page so that I actually have a coherent point than a sentence that, in isolation, offers almost nothing to the discussion. You may not agree, but at least I am clear on what I think and why I think it.


----------



## Dewdman42 (Jan 27, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> A number of people who buy Hip Hop Creator don't have any experience with DAWs, so they often ask which one they should get. It's obviously a very complex question, but I saw something last week about Cakewalk being free, which would make that question a whole lot easier.
> 
> So ... is there a catch?



Cakewalk is free and its pretty darn good for being free. It is NOT for beginners.

I used to use Sonar some years ago...I was working on a student film project at the time and ran into some weird bugs when I included complex meter/tempo changes. Had to scrap the whole thing at the last minute and get it done in a different daw. I have no idea if that has been fixed since then or not, but basically I never went back Sonar, and that was 15 years ago, it wasn't free then. 

I thought it was otherwise pretty good at the time, but I feel its "dated" now. But it IS free... and they did just add an ArticulationMap feature which is perhaps the best one out now on a few points.

It doesn't run on a Mac, so its of no use to me now. Beginners on a Mac should use Garageband.

Anyone on a PC that doesn't want to pay much for a DAW ought to try it out, why not. But I think it will be a bit overwhelming for someone new to DAW work.


----------



## Tren (Jan 27, 2021)

I've always posited that Cakewalk is the default first choice on PC. People just starting out don't need all of the bells and whistles, anyways, and it's always nice to start out with something that costs $0 so that you can actually get to work and figure out what your personal requirements ACTUALLY are before plopping down Benjamins for anything else.


----------



## Batwaffel (Jan 28, 2021)

Tren said:


> It is a freebie. It has been starved of development resources for a decade or more, while the company that owned it preferred to package more plugins, loop packs, expansion packs, and 3rd party products instead. That is fact. The entire change log back several years (up until the shutdown) is available at cakewalk.com - if you would like to reference that, at least.


Saying it like that kinda makes you look ignorant because it's painfully obvious you have a chip on your shoulder and are completely out of touch with reality. Sonar X3 started a trend of constant updates complete with new features and fixes. In fact, it was the only DAW doing monthly updates with both new content and features. Here, I even went and got you the link so you can take a gander: https://www.cakewalk.com/products/sonar/rolling-updates

You may not get emotionally attached to software, but you sure are bitter about it.


----------



## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 28, 2021)

Tren said:


> That's a complete misnomer. Samplitude's MIDI editing is stronger than Cakewalk's.


On that we can not agree.



Tren said:


> Articulation maps only matter if you're using Virtual Instruments with keyswitches. For something like EDM, why would I load a KS patch when I only need Spiccatos?


Articulation maps can do way more than keyswitches, but yes, I mentioned them because we are in this forum 



Tren said:


> Live's Piano Roll is anemic.


Live 11's piano roll does everything I need (scale highlighting, legato and mirroring, multi clip and multi track editing, envelopes, you can easily stretch some notes and, most important, don't need to change tools for anything) in the most elegant and easy way. It could use less space, but that's about the only thing missing.




Tren said:


> Eh... That depends on what you're looking for. Or if you even know what you're looking for.


Of course. But that's true for anything in any DAW. Pro Channel _is_ usable (like Fat Channel in Studio One) and well enough integrated. If you don't want to use it: just don't click that button.



Tren said:


> You can get far better iZotope Reverbs for next to nothing, and Melodyne Essential is not free. It's a Trial version in Cakewalk by BandLab.


We are talking (I at lest thought you were) about reverbs included in DAWs.
It's the Essential version, not a trial. That you get with almost anything, I got 4 or 5 in the last year. ARA2 in Cakewalk is as well implemented as in Samplitude btw. , and way better integrated as in S1 (were only Melodyne is really integrated, but not Spectralayers).



Tren said:


> Hard Disagree.


They are now what Reaper user has been in the past. They're to attached to the program and won't recognize problems/bugs, half assed features and missing features and you often see a 'have you tried Reaper^H^H^H^H^H^HStudio One?'.
But I understand them, coming from Cubase S1 of course fells like paradise - I felt the same with Live more than a decade ago!


Tren said:


> You're delusional.


_I_ prefer Cakewalk to Cubase.


Tren said:


> What tyou like to use doesn't mean it's better


Of course not.
I just dislike Cubase's way of doing some things.



Tren said:


> Cakewalk's MIDI is mid-2000's level.


Yes, I agree. Same as any other DAW that I know of except Live (FL is just awkward to mé).



Tren said:


> No, they are not the same DAW.


They all use more or less the same windows/frames/tools to do the same things in the same matter. The differences in the 'workflow' are small (if you configure Reaper first, but you also have to do that with Cakewalk and Cubase and ...).



Tren said:


> Samplitude is not just better at audio, it also has better MIDI editing than Cakewalk. Go and use it, you will see. Cakewalk only has a few specific feature areas where it ticks a box where Samplitude doesn't.


Still can't agree on that 


Tren said:


> I can do a live stream comparing the two, but do you REALLY want that to happen/be out there?


I actually don't care what you do or don't do or what anybody else does to an extent. If it's telling me something new about something I'm interested in, I care, if it's just a comparison, I don't, because, well I've used them already.



Tren said:


> Those DAWs were designed with a pretty obvious bias to specific markets. They aren't pretending to be great "Generalist" DAWs.


Of course, except Waveform. I wouldn't want to use any of these for mixing, for example.


Tren said:


> The DAW was pretty laggard in development for about a decade or more before they shut it down. The new development is a breath of fresh air for that reason - but this is primarily why it has so many areas of the application that need attention.


Yes, true. But they have been and are constantly adding features (and, unlike S1, in a quite usable and complete way - just look at articulation maps or the ARA 2 implementation - except the matrix view, they really need to step up their clip launcher).
Retrospective recording, VCAs and a (supported) alternative to CAL scripts are missing for me and an overhaul of the clip launcher. A better sequencer, one like S1 has (_that_ is actually something they really did well!).


----------



## chillbot (Jan 28, 2021)

Tren said:


> Cakewalk is not your wife.


But I have spent more time with it than with her?


Batwaffel said:


> You may not get emotionally attached to software, but you sure are bitter about it.


Right?


----------



## scottbuckley (Jan 31, 2021)

Cakewalk is fine, guys. Let's not measure DAWs - and just say that Cakewalk does a great job, particularly for the entry price these days.

I'm proud to say I've been using it (and prior versions) for over 20 years. I'm not leaving until they turn the lights off, and that's that.


----------



## mk-oh-one (Jan 31, 2021)

giwro said:


> The only caveat I have for Cakewalk is that in order to use it, you had to create a login and install the BandLab software (last time I tried it). I got it installed and deleted the BandLab login software, then Cakewalk would no longer work. I get it, they want to drive you to BandLab if you're gonna use the free software - I just didn't care for that paradigm.


You are not obliged to actually use Bandlab. I haven't.


----------



## topaz (Jan 10, 2022)

chillbot said:


> It seemed like above and beyond effort with the pages of quotes to bash a piece of software that is free. I don't get it. Cakewalk is legit against any other DAW if you put in the time to learn it.
> 
> Forgive me for being somewhat attached to a program that I've spent maybe 50,000 hours using (literally) and also invested a lot of money in over the years only to see it get it get slammed as a freebie, I guess.


----------



## jadedsean (Jan 10, 2022)

Are the plugins also free?


----------



## mk-oh-one (Jan 10, 2022)

Tren said:


> That's a complete misnomer. Samplitude's MIDI editing is stronger than Cakewalk's.
> 
> Articulation maps only matter if you're using Virtual Instruments with keyswitches. For something like EDM, why would I load a KS patch when I only need Spiccatos?
> 
> ...


Wow. You poor soul.


----------



## SlHarder (Jan 10, 2022)

jadedsean said:


> Are the plugins also free?


Any that are included with Cakewalk are. And any vst or vst3 works. So you can go along ways with "free".


----------



## jadedsean (Jan 10, 2022)

SlHarder said:


> Any that are included with Cakewalk are. And any vst or vst3 works. So you can go along ways with "free".


I ask because i downloaded thre LA 2A plugin last year actually without Cakewalk and it stated it was a 14 day trial but, it has was worked flawlessly for me since then. I just downloaded there EQ and multiband compressor and hopefully they are the same.


----------



## Tralen (Jan 10, 2022)

Does Cakewalk have a youtube channel that covers the program basics (like Reaper's Reaper Mania)?

It might be useful to push newbies to that resource.


----------



## rrichard63 (Jan 10, 2022)

This thread didn't mention my favorite Windows DAW for ease of learning: Acoustica Mixcraft. It's not free, but a version that includes all the features (just not all the bundled add-ons) is $100 at regular price and $70 or $75 on sale.


----------



## Wes Antczak (Jan 10, 2022)

As I'm sure many of you know, Cakewalk originally came on the scene back in the late 80s. For many years it was a "contender" along with some of the other DAWs that we know. Sonar was a good DAW imo. Eventually they fell into the same Black Hole that sucked up Oberheim. In many respects eventually landing in the Bandcamp camp was probably a good thing and the fact that the software is now free and available to everyone to use surely cannot be bad.


----------



## Wes Antczak (Jan 10, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> This thread didn't mention my favorite Windows DAW for ease of learning: Acoustica Mixcraft. It's not free, but a version that includes all the features (just not all the bundled add-ons) is $100 at regular price and $70 or $75 on sale.


Acoustica Mixcraft is great and I have found myself being more productive there than in some other DAWs. I like that they do not require a dongle so that is my preferred DAW for my on the go notebook. They also go back to roots coming from Sonic Foundry (i.e. Acid and Sound Forge) so it isn't as if (as a company) they are totally new to music audio.


----------



## rrichard63 (Jan 10, 2022)

Wes Antczak said:


> They also go back to roots coming from Sonic Foundry (i.e. Acid and Sound Forge) ...


Interesting - I didn't know that. A big part of their ease-of-learning and ease-of-use is the excellent manual and lively and helpful on-line forum.


----------



## gsilbers (Jan 10, 2022)

Well.. if a product is free... it means YOU are the product


----------



## vitocorleone123 (Jan 10, 2022)

gsilbers said:


> Well.. if a product is free... it means YOU are the product


Waveform Free is free because they sell a lot of other stuff. Users are no more a product than any other company selling music software. In other words: that's not entirely true.


----------



## gsilbers (Jan 10, 2022)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Waveform Free is free because they sell a lot of other stuff. Users are no more a product than any other company selling music software. In other words: that's not entirely true.



yeah.. im sure thats why facebook is broke lol


----------



## Jimbo 88 (Jan 10, 2022)

Cake is Great. The Forums are really great if you need help. I've made a very good living using it over the years. Like every DAW it has it's plus and minuses. Not Perfect, but it never has impeded me. Could use better notation, tempo functions. Cake has always had things belfore other DAWs (like 64 bit.) They are constantly updating and it is getting better all the time.


----------



## vitocorleone123 (Jan 10, 2022)

Jimbo 88 said:


> Cake is Great. The Forums are really great if you need help. I've made a very good living using it over the years. Like every DAW it has it's plus and minuses. Not Perfect, but it never has impeded me. Could use better notation, tempo functions. Cake has always had things belfore other DAWs (like 64 bit.) They are constantly updating and it is getting better all the time.


Twelve Tone was innovative. I used Cakewalk 5 for awhile before moving to Tracktion, and that was primarily due to cost (though I didn't miss anything, and Tracktion also had plenty of innovations others have copied), though there wasn't a free version of either, then. That said, Tracktion was handed out with some hardware purchases for several years.


----------



## SlHarder (Jan 10, 2022)

Tralen said:


> Does Cakewalk have a youtube channel that covers the program basics




Mike Enjo has a very prolific youtube channel. There are tens of excellent vids there which provide very detailed info on using Cakewalk. Gret way to get started.


----------



## KarlHeinz (Jan 18, 2022)

Quick question about general concept as Cakewalk came back in my focus threw different aspects:

- do you have to route data from one track to another like in Cubase, Studio One and many other daw (so for example midi data on one channel, vst instrument on the other)
- or is it a "rack-concept" where it does not matter and you can simply throw midi-effects, vst-instruments, effects.... one after another on the same track and the routing goes automatically (like Waveform, Mulab,.....) ?


----------



## chillbot (Jan 18, 2022)

KarlHeinz said:


> - do you have to route data from one track to another like in Cubase, Studio One and many other daw (so for example midi data on one channel, vst instrument on the other)
> - or is it a "rack-concept" where it does not matter and you can simply throw midi-effects, vst-instruments, effects.... one after another on the same track and the routing goes automatically (like Waveform, Mulab,.....)


Don't know if I fully understand the question but see if this helps:

Three kinds of tracks in Cakewalk:
- Audio tracks
- Midi tracks (you can't put a typical audio VST like reverb or delay on a midi track)
- Instrument tracks, which is an audio track and a midi track combined into one and typically used for VSTs

The instrument track can be split at any point into it's separate midi/audio tracks as well.

So for example if I load Zebra I typically only have one track for it, an instrument track, with midi going to Zebra and audio coming back on the same track and I can add any VST FX to that track as well.

When I load Kontakt I will load it as the same instrument track but then I will typically split the instrument into audio/midi, and then duplicate the midi track a number of times. So for Kontakt I might have 8 tracks of midi going in but one track of audio coming out (if I don't need separate audio outputs).


----------



## KarlHeinz (Jan 18, 2022)

chillbot said:


> Don't know if I fully understand the question but see if this helps:
> 
> Three kinds of tracks in Cakewalk:
> - Audio tracks
> ...


Thanks, that clears the main question for me, I can keep midi and vst to play the midi on one track ("instrument track" in cakewalk it seems), so no routing needed


----------

