# "Making Beats"



## robgb (Aug 16, 2020)

I'm not sure why, but referring to composing as "making beats" drives me up a wall. Where the hell did this inane expression come from?


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## tf-drone (Aug 16, 2020)

Hi,

my 2c - just marketing. Considering how many sample packs are being advertised for techno, trip hop, trap, dubstep and so on, it seems beat making is where the money is.


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## X-Bassist (Aug 16, 2020)

Back when hip hop was being formed in the 80’s and 90’s, DJ’s and Rap artists (before it was know as rap) would get together in New York and have rap battles and share beats (taken from sampled music or drum machines) on cassette tapes. The winner would often sell many cassette copies right there on the street. This was how the term “making beats” got started. Even the name of Dr Drea’s billion dollar beats company (which he sold) came from this era. Only recently did composing start being called “making beats”, previously it was always tied to dance music and the hip hop word. But as the amount of people using sampled beats has increased, ordinary people may assume it’s as easy as making a beat. But hopefully most here know it’s much more complicated than that.


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## jonathanparham (Aug 16, 2020)

There is definitely a shift in music sales. Spitfire is releasing a sample pack for the Arcade platform. Even Akai just released a free DAW. They have been making drum/sampling machines for decades. And now have free software and niche market for all their hardware. The beat making market is intriguing as people are selling directly to the consumers. Reselling a 1-3 min single over and over before royalty (if that's been negotiated) is trippy.


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## Polkasound (Aug 16, 2020)

Today, a lot of pop music is created by a two-step process: beatmaking + toplining. Some producers create their own beats, but many buy them from beatmakers. The producer edits and compiles the beats into a song, then sends the song off to a vocalist to create and sing the melody and lyrics, called toplining. Some topline singers work for flat fee; others will negotiate royalties.

There are musicians out there who are exceptionally talented at creating beats, and some are making a lot of money from it. Some beats are collaboratively created by a teams of people working for beat production companies.


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## Consona (Aug 16, 2020)

My reaction every time after reading about popular contemporary music.


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## Stringtree (Aug 16, 2020)

ACID? (not the drug I should never take again, but that which was bought by SONY.)

Fruity Loops? Soundforge? 

@Polkasound is right. You should also check out his accordion libraries; I have them all, and I don't see any reason they should not be used for hip-hop. 

Outside of the old method of recording the band then recording the lead singer, there's a new model. Cool. "Beatmaking" refers to laying down whatever the backing tracks are and then the main event occurs over top. 

So this does not at all have to be constrained by anything. 

Look at Charlie Puth. Maybe a gateway drug into what is today's aesthetic. Stick with it a few. This guy is a phenom with serious jazz roots.


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## robgb (Aug 16, 2020)

Stringtree said:


> Look at Charlie Puth. Maybe a gateway drug into what is today's aesthetic. Stick with it a few. This guy is a phenom with serious jazz roots.


Who is now making Subway commercials...


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## robgb (Aug 16, 2020)

I guess I'll stop complaining now and go listen to some of the beats Chopin made.


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## CT (Aug 16, 2020)

"Beats" might only make me roll my eyes slightly if ignorantly used in the wrong context, but did you see the title of that video a few posts up? "Fire beats." Now _that's_ annoying.


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## chimuelo (Aug 17, 2020)

Don’t you guys have kids?
Fire is the word that replaced dope, Bomb, and Beats is a free software from Akai that get’s people with little musical training a foot in the door.

Not every kid in the world has access to music training.

Sorry, after watching 50+ year old ladies dancing nasty I decided I’d rather see younger sexier dancers and have fun.
I can play bass keys effortlessly.
It’s more fun, more money and dancers got all sorts of cool moves.

Once you get out of Twitter jail and the lock downs, go check out a club.
Have some fun.

Here’s a hardware DAW that transfers the tracks from the software.The outputs are hotter, and made for Bass/Synth and Drums.

Truly remote too.
I run my iPad into the TRS inputs, adjust the volume, play my wireless remote MPK Mini 3 as I learn another 20 new tunes, much easier than other styles.
The stand below is just being finished. My BBQ poolside wireless rig lasts 7 hours.
IEMs round out the rig. One soft case carries all, 7 hours anywhere anytime.

Whole new way to compose.
I think those who get bored with music, reinvigorate yourself. It’s truly what saved me from drugs, hookers and booze. It makes you creative.

Cheerz


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## telecode101 (Aug 17, 2020)

..


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## chimuelo (Aug 17, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> Beat making and producing are terms associated with modernity and young generations. But, why would you associate "modernity" with Chopin who has been dead for 150 years?



That’s because you can hear his genius from Josef Zawinul in Weather Report to CardiB. or Kendrick Lamar.
Actually I hear more Debussy than others.
French Impressionism lives on.

Don’t Rush is a recent groove that has the Bassline of the year.
Not many folks relate to it like I do.
I hear a mix of Come Together/Beatles, and Witchy Woman/Eagles, but they didn’t have FAT ASS 808Bass.

I use Zebra as my Kick layer, and an SE-02 as the legato synth buried in feedback/overdrive. Routed to a 12” Sub, and an 18” Sub, and the actual Kick Drum uses an Ampeg SVT 70’s Tube head with dual 12” inch Gauss.

I can see shot glasses on the bar wiggle.


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## CT (Aug 17, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> Fire is the word that replaced dope, Bomb



I'll stick with boss!


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## Cheezus (Aug 17, 2020)

You kids and your _hippity hop_ and your _fire beats_ and your _cellular telephones_.


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## Stringtree (Aug 17, 2020)

Woop wooop! I’m still using the word “cool.” I was just at the grocery store picking potatoes and Mr. Lewis and His News came on with “Hip to be Square.”

I turned to my friend and wryly asked if any of this would make any sense whatsoever to a kiddo today. 

@chimuelo, nice. Forever young. Forever Chimuelo. Hahahahahahaaaaaaa.


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## robgb (Aug 17, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> Beat making and producing are terms associated with modernity and young generations. But, why would you associate "modernity" with Chopin who has been dead for 150 years?


It was a joke.


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## chimuelo (Aug 17, 2020)

Stringtree said:


> Woop wooop! I’m still using the word “cool.” I was just at the grocery store picking potatoes and Mr. Lewis and His News came on with “Hip to be Square.”
> 
> I turned to my friend and wryly asked if any of this would make any sense whatsoever to a kiddo today.
> 
> @chimuelo, nice. Forever young. Forever Chimuelo. Hahahahahahaaaaaaa.



Hardly young, but always enjoy learning, especially when you actually do HipHop mock ups.
Its not easy avoiding 3 and 4 note chords for 5ths.

Lucky for me I do lots of Guitar (OrangeTree/Shreddage/Zebra) Live.
5ths on a separate zone with no PBend, and leads using a FSwitch for PBend.
I’ve pissed off Guitar players for years, and often get a better sound because 3 layers, each with various PBend values gets wide and fat.

Fun Thread.
But seriously mates.
If your mind is stagnant from lock downs, etc.
Dont be hard on yourself, tackle something new fun and easy.


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## Stringtree (Aug 17, 2020)

What makes me sadder than today’s terrible music and singing and making beats is our loss of music education, except for band nerds. 

On the other hand, the paunchy neighbor, shirtless, stood in his doorway jamming “18 and Life” and bouncing up and down. This is an image that will require an ice pick to exorcise from my brain.

Taking the long view, taste in music is like that for clothing and grooming. Highly subjective, faddish, and for a young grasshopper, just what your friends listen to until sophistication sets in and snobbery takes over. 

The Sousa march. Family music in the living room. A kid practicing guitar. I’m feeling more and more like a ghost. This is no longer my world, and things in it that pertain to me are yellowed and curled. Fire. Hahahaha... 

A lot of stuff has passed as music for an awfully long time, offered up to people who didn’t have deeper experiences, any training, or care for seeking out anything better. Nothing new here. 

Cool is fire. Rad is dope is sick. And I’m going to listen to my Poulenc and try to drown out the 80s hair rock coming from across the street.


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## Morning Coffee (Aug 17, 2020)

I thought a prerequisite for 'making beats' was having gold teeth!

(I'll show myself out thankyou very much!)


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## Henu (Aug 17, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> Don’t you guys have kids?



Yep, and despite of my years of infecting them with soundtrack and metal music, the oldest is now 14....and making......_beats_.


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## CT (Aug 18, 2020)

You didn't beat them enough.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Aug 18, 2020)

I never associated that term with composing. In 2012 I met a guy who was "making beats". What that was is putting together loops in FL studio (synth drums & bass, sometimes small melodic accents) and selling them to rappers to talk over to. I never thought it had anything to do with anything I deal in.


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## Stringtree (Aug 18, 2020)

Got a feeling I’ve been here before
Watching as you cross the killing floor
You know you’ll have to pay it all
You’ll pay today or pay tomorrow

Your Gold Teeth. Now there’s a beat.


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## Montisquirrel (Aug 18, 2020)

When I was in school about 20 years ago, "making beats" was clearly producing Hiphop beats for rap. Today I also sometimes gets ask if I make beats when I say that I am a composer. It is similar to the situation when people ask me if I am a DJ when I tell them I make electronic music (while for some people "electronic music" is modern EDM and for others it is music like Kraftwerk.....)

Yesterday I have learnt the term "beat block", which is the new writers block for musicians (or beat makers).


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 18, 2020)

Making "Beats" = making the instrumental part of a hip-hop/R&B or maybe EDM style track.
I'll admit, the term annoys me too so when asked what I do for money, I tell people I write production music.

Despite the way it's looked down upon round these parts (what? no legato?) - IMO making beats is one of the most efficient ways of making money out of music in order to repay the credit on those expensive Spitfire purchases.

The ROI can be measured in _minutes_ (seriously) as opposed to weeks, months or years. The average beat selling platform is now pretty sophisticated, featuring domain, CRM, social and Google analytics automations in addition to the usual upload and storage tools. If you're web and social media savvy, you can have a great time with it.

Best of all, the market has resisted the "race to the bottom" that seems to have inflicted other distribution platforms. In short, it's still a good place to be and it's telling that the latest Logic update includes a huge fat (phat!) collection of tools to assist beat making.

Seriously, try it.


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## rudi (Aug 18, 2020)

Make beats.
Make music.


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## Daniel (Aug 18, 2020)

"Making Beats" 
Me: I give up.
Lucky me to have the support of artists who are experts in that field.


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## chocobitz825 (Aug 18, 2020)

when did composers become songwriters?

it's just the times...


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## telecode101 (Aug 18, 2020)

..


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## telecode101 (Aug 18, 2020)

..


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Aug 18, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> After a week of working some shitty manual labor job fixing holes on the highway or warehouse, you go home, get some bottles of hard liquor and get together with some friends and get shit faced listening to this stuff because the whole whole cycle is going to repeat itself all over again the next week.



Making music for these occasions should be viewed as community service. Or pretty much what they call "essential work" nowadays!


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## chimuelo (Aug 18, 2020)

Morning Coffee said:


> I thought a prerequisite for 'making beats' was having gold teeth!
> 
> (I'll show myself out thankyou very much!)



You know who Gator is? Seen the movie “The other guys”,..?
My Live Kareoke HipHop group uses a guitarist and 6 different vocalists.
My neice is a real life Ho, a reality my family deals with, but she sings CardiB 100% on.

I call the group Gator and the Ho’s.
I dress like Gator (Will Ferrell) have fake gold teeth, and even use a Mr. T. Starter kit.
We worked for 2 weeks before the shutdown hit.

We will come back booming as I added even more material and had vocalists do their own backing tracks with full reverse/LoFi tricks.

We do a variety of music from fun to serious.
Ever heard Nate Dogg’s “ I got ho’s with different area codes”..?
Everyone sings along.


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## telecode101 (Aug 18, 2020)

..


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## robgb (Aug 18, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> From that era of musicians, I much preferred Liszt. I always liked the idea of a guy who wrote music only he and a handful or other people on the planet at the time were physically capable of performing.


No one beat Chopin in my opinion, but different strokes for different folks and all that.


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## robgb (Aug 18, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I never associated that term with composing. In 2012 I met a guy who was "making beats". What that was is putting together loops in FL studio (synth drums & bass, sometimes small melodic accents) and selling them to rappers to talk over to. I never thought it had anything to do with anything I deal in.


I get a lot of video suggestions on my Youtube feed. I can't tell you how many guys are talking about "making beats" that has absolutely nothing to do with rappers or FL studio. Which is, of course, why it drives me up a wall.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Aug 18, 2020)

robgb said:


> I get a lot of video suggestions on my Youtube feed. I can't tell you how many guys are talking about "making beats" that has absolutely nothing to do with rappers or FL studio. Which is, of course, why it drives me up a wall.



I'm probably out of the loop by now, as far as how the terminology has expanded in the meantime. The way you put it, it kinda sounds like I probably don't even wanna know, haha


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## Stringtree (Aug 18, 2020)

I paid for my facility with instruments that I have today. Rather, I exchanged all the stuff normal kids do for this. Took a lot of hours. More than a little money.

The tech today makes it apparently simple to skip all that and jump right into doing the kimd of music people are dancing to. 

The Korg Triton. In the early 2000s, budding producers and their buddies would absolutely camp out in front of the thing at the music stores for hours. Many of the combi patches let someone with even modest keyboard skills make sounds that moved. 

The feeling attendant to creation of something new is a real sizzle. Fire. No matter who you are, no matter your skill level, I share that feeling with you and beam at the enthusiasm and discovery. Who knows? Maybe it will lead you deeper, prompt you to listen more, learn more, and create more. 

It's a modality of composition, and it's got a low bar to entry. Maybe it's the jargon that's so grating. The rest of it, I'm all for!


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## rrichard63 (Aug 18, 2020)

Used in the right way, I think the term "making beats" serves a purpose. Assembling audio and MIDI loops into a piece of music or backing track is not the same process as writing a melody and lyrics, finding a chord progression and arranging instrumental parts. Call the first activity "making a beat" and call the second "song writing". They're different. And song writing is different from classical and film score composition. It's helpful to have terminology that reflects the differences.

But this isn't the first time a word or phrase that started out having a fairly specific (and therefore useful) meaning was transformed by overuse into something vague and meaningless.


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 18, 2020)

The wording isn't new. Fifteen years ago, I used to work in a studio where artists coming though the door would inquire if any "beats" were for sale. First time I'd heard the term and it confused me too.

It doesn't really matter how or if we find the term annoying or somehow inappropriate. It exists. Thousands of people use it as a search query and get a relevant result. What else matters?


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## robgb (Aug 18, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> The wording isn't new. Fifteen years ago, I used to work in a studio where artists coming though the door would inquire if any "beats" were for sale. First time I'd heard the term and it confused me too.
> 
> It doesn't really matter how or if we find the term annoying or somehow inappropriate. It exists. Thousands of people use it as a search query and get a relevant result. What else matters?


In the larger scheme of things it doesn't matter at all, nor am I suggesting it should. I'm merely saying it annoys the shit out of me.


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 18, 2020)

robgb said:


> In the larger scheme of things it doesn't matter at all, nor am I suggesting it should. I'm merely saying it annoys the shit out of me.


Fair enough. Then if we’re consigning words and terms to room 101, I submit “moist” and “lush.”


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## tav.one (Aug 18, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> I think there are different ways of looking at all this stuff and there isn't a correct or incorrect way of looking at it. Mention was made in this thread about classical Romantic era composers and pianists. It's good to remember that the music of Chopin and Liszt was probably music that was reserved for the rich and affluent in society at the time. Regular folks didn’t have the luxury of listening to this music let alone seeing it performed. Liszt and his Hungarian rhapsodies are an interesting example. He made music for royalty to enjoy but he used Hungarian folk music as a source for the works.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks to the picture, I couldn't help but read your post like it was a page from a book.
I tried but couldn't.


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## Crowe (Aug 18, 2020)

This is a little painful. Let's all agree that 'composing for orchestra' =/= 'making beats' and that marketing is evil.

And now take that internalized elitism and take it to your three-computer-master/slave-vsl setup and please stop shitting on other people who are trying to find their way making music.

Does anyone truly believe that any kid with a download of the MPC software automatically gets anywhere? All of us who aim to get anywhere lose ourselves in our craft, whether that's making sick bass-drops or a multi-movement string quartet pieces. It all takes us years of training and development and we might then still be awful at it.

I live next to a soccer field and let me tell you, those kids in their amateur clubs should just piss off and leave the kicking balls to the professionals.

Sheesh, it's like everyone thinks they can be a pro soccer player these days.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Aug 18, 2020)

Alex Fraser said:


> Fair enough. Then if we’re consigning words and terms to room 101, I submit “moist” and “lush.”



"Lush" grinds my gears. I also hate "warm" and things that "glue" things "together".

But "moist" strikes fear into my heart. I want to believe that this wasn't meant in a musical context.


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## Nils Neumann (Aug 18, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> And now take that internalized elitism and take it to your three-computer-master/slave-vsl setup and please stop shitting on other people who are trying to find their way making music.


I agree! A lot of weird responses.
I would say I'm fairly advanced in the world virtual orchestration. I have my mixing chops and play a dozen instruments on a good enough level to help me in my "composer" world. 

But I would NEVER argue, that I could produce a huge sounding beat like they are hip now. I can't make beats. There is so a lot of skill and experience needed for that. 

So yeah, quit the elitism...


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## Crowe (Aug 18, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> "Lush" grinds my gears. I also hate "warm" and things that "glue" things "together".
> 
> But "moist" strikes fear into my heart. I want to believe that this wasn't meant in a musical context.



When I'm building a synth bass, I know exactly what "warm" means. When I'm building a synth pad, I know exactly what "Lush" means. "gluing" things "together" can be done in a variety of ways, all of which are really important while designing your sound.

Why is music production vernacular percieved to be so offensive? I don't bitch about Col Legno either.

However, to be fair, when your sound is "moist" it means you're under water and something went awfully wrong.

Edit: Look, it's honestly really pissing me off that 'people like me' are apparently percieved as lesser musicians because I enjoy making Chip, Glitch and Future Bass (fully disregarding any and all adventures in orchestral composition) and I'm looking to move towards a point where I can make some money doing what I love instead of the awful career as a programmer I got myself stuck with.

There's clearly a big disconnect between what folks *think* goes into this, as opposed to the many, many hours it actually takes to become any good at *any* type of music.

I actually thought we warn each other about arrogance and hubris often enough to be past this. Turns out I'm a fool.


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## Crowe (Aug 18, 2020)

Oh no, I'm pretty chill still. I'm also quite certain that plenty of folks in this thread are very serious. I simply think this bears discussing.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 18, 2020)

Hey, someone needs to put in a plug for Hip Hop Creator (Realitone, Mike Greene's company).


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## Polkasound (Aug 18, 2020)

In years past, recording the day's popular music with quality sound required both a substantial investment in additional equipment and knowledge. But now we live in a unique time where, for the first time ever, pop music can be created, mixed, and distributed on $500 of equipment by anyone who simply likes music and knows how to use a computer. And that's what's happening.

I hesitate to even try estimating how many teenage bedroom producers are out there using beats today, but if you do a song search on SoundCloud using any random word, you will discover literally _thousands_ of related songs from musicians all over the world, and 90% of them will be in some subgenre of EDM.

I'm writing this to give Rob and others a little underpinning of how vital "making beats" is to contemporary music, which is why it has earned its place in the same glossary of terms as composer and songwriter. But like others suggest, there should be a universally accepted distinction among the terms. I was once going to add "composer" to my credits because I occasionally arrange strings and other virtual orchestral ensembles for songs, but I decided against it because it didn't feel right. I am a songwriter, not a composer.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Hey, someone needs to put in a plug for Hip Hop Creator (Realitone, Mike Greene's company).



Hey, let's have a contest to guess the first member who plugs Hip Hop Creator by Realitone ($99 on sale) in this thread.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Aug 18, 2020)

poetd said:


> I of course exclude Jimmy Hellfire from my previous statement, who feels nothing but disdain for all forms of music since the fugue.




I like stuff that came after the fugue.

Shortly after, that is.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 18, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I like stuff that came after the fugue.
> 
> Shortly after, that is.


I love hiphop, that is: before they started using 808 hihats in 32nd note triplets and calling it trap. My daughter loves it. She is 15 and every time something remotely subbass-like comes through a speaker she calls it “808”. So in a weird way that makes me happy haha.


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 18, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I love hiphop, that is: before they started using 808 hihats in 32nd note triplets


Yeah, i feel a little dirty whenever I do that. Tttttttttttttttttttttttt


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## Crowe (Aug 18, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I love hiphop, that is: before they started using 808 hihats in 32nd note triplets and calling it trap. My daughter loves it. She is 15 and every time something remotely subbass-like comes through a speaker she calls it “808”. So in a weird way that makes me happy haha.



You have no idea how much the misuse of that term bothers me. Especially when I was trying to figure out how to synthesize my own 808 drums.

Maybe as much as calling orchestral compositions 'beats' XD.


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## telecode101 (Aug 18, 2020)

..


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## jonathanparham (Aug 18, 2020)

Ain't gonna lie. I downloaded the free Akai software this weekend. I have to admit; I'm impressed. The one aspect of contemporary hip hop or trap is the 16th and 32 rolls and the akai software makes it really easy to do. Amazing how music changes. I remember in the late 90s drawing those 32 notes in Opcode Vision for Drum and Bass/Electronica tracks. I haven't seen that option in the Realitone demos but you get a lot of other things in Mike's package. Those rolls/triggers are in Big Fish Audio Sequence and in Sonicotours Blanks.


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## mattfourmat (Aug 18, 2020)

Some have you guys have been around long enough to realise that CHANGE and advancement in technology has opened up music for more people and it will continue to do so. Embrace change... sure there are people coming into your space with way less experience and knowledge and sometimes it can be cringey for sure, but that's just how it is. If you're a composer then beat makers should not bother you too much


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## Crowe (Aug 18, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> Meh. The people making beats don't make music that is meant to accompany images that were created or captured a year to more in the past. They make music that is meant to connect with an audience in the here and now. In some cases, to create an audience where none existed. It's a whole different ball game. They don't need to go to college to study Aaron Copeland works. It will do them little good in getting booty.



So basically:
1. My music is less valuable because it's not made to accompany someone else's images.
2. My work is less important because I didn't study some american composer.
3. You presume to tell me who my audience is.
4. An artist finding an niche where previously no audience existed is bad for some reason.

How do you not choke on your own arrogance?

Edit: It's been pointed out that I may have interpreted the post wrong. I can't really tell, but it won't do to call anyone out on something that isn't there.

Also if I did interpret it wrong, I apologise. I hate it when people do that.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 18, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> So basically:
> 1. My music is less valuable because it's not made to accompany someone else's images.
> 2. My work is less important because I didn't study some american composer.
> 3. You presume to tell me who my audience is.
> ...


I may be wrong and I mean this very respectfully... but my reading of @telecode101 ’s post is that he and you actually AGREE. He seems to express rather positive things about those people that make beats?


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 18, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> The people making beats don't make music that is meant to accompany images that were created or captured a year to more in the past. They make music that is meant to connect with an audience in the here and now.


I make beats mostly for people to bonk to. AKA "Baby Making Beats." There's a new term for the VI control sticky thread. (No pun intended.)


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## Stringtree (Aug 18, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> So basically:
> 1. My music is less valuable because it's not made to accompany someone else's images.
> 2. My work is less important because I didn't study some american composer.
> 3. You presume to tell me who my audience is.
> ...



Given the vast range of expression in music, this hurts to hear. At issue in this thread is the checking of badges to see if someone is actually supposed to be in the backstage area. 

I'll say it again. Making music, "Sound On Sound," is like cooking. We all eat. We sometimes eat commonplace dishes, and sometimes enjoy wow food. 

Which is better, beef bourgignion or a street hamburger? What kind of question is that? 

Yes, I have "sophisticated" tastes, which were "cultivated" through education and association with the proper genealogy of western music. But outside of this gated community exists a world of diverse expressions, all craving the thing that music does to humans. 

No shame. Make music. Laugh. Cry. Make friends. Write something when they go. This is the bone going up into the air in 2001: A Space Odyssey. It belongs to no one, but all of us. I wish I could go and watch some terrible soccer, terrible tennis, terrible basketball. 

Last week, I met a contractor for a job. He offered a fist bump. It wasn't like a joint or anything, just that. That was the very first time since March I have contacted another human being outside of my household. Why was that profound? 

I do like this thread. All kinds of people want music. All kinds of music are vibrant and alive. For me, that's the bottom line. In the current climate, music has the ability to move me more than ever, all sorts. All kinds of people; all kinds of expression.


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## MaxOctane (Aug 18, 2020)

Adding my 2c and somewhat echoing what others are saying, "making beats" is a specific thing with a specific workflow/process which is different enough from "composing" that really you'd never confuse one for the other.

A typical beat-making session would be:

Load up your favorite drum kit, which can be as simple as 3 samples: kick, snare, hi-hat. Maybe an 808 bass. Record a 2 or 4 bar loop. That's the basic skeleton.
On top of the drums, lay some a simple chord progression (could even be just 2 chords, back and forth) using your sound of choice (e.g., a felted "dusty" piano).
Add a bass line (if you didn't use an 808) and some layers of melodic snippets and effects, all within that same 2/4-bar loop.
Then sequence the loop into a full track by muting and un-muting layers. Season to taste.
That's the process, and if you've done that then you've "made a beat". The barrier to entry is low. Once you figure out the process, it's quite fun to lay out a nice-sounding beat in half-hour.


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## tc9000 (Aug 18, 2020)

for me, the purpose of music is to create *feelings* in the ear and mind of the beholder. the means of creation aren't relevant to the listner.

just because some music just hits you in the pants a bit more, is a bit more limbic system doesent mean its any better or worse than something that speaks more to the neocortex. for me both are valuable, both have a time and a place.

i can enjoy 'Cyberpunk 2077 Breathtaking Mix' 



... and i can enjoy 'Debussy - Arabesque No.1 and No.2' 



just as much.

flavours. textures. variation... vive la difference!


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## Michel Simons (Aug 18, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Hey, someone needs to put in a plug for Hip Hop Creator (Realitone, Mike Greene's company).



Who is Mike Greene? And what the hell is soccer?

I cooked up some tasty beets myself yesterday evening.


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## ag75 (Aug 18, 2020)

But “making beats” is arguably more authentic than trying to recreate orchestral mock ups one could argue. Making beats is it’s own art form. Most of us in here are just trying to recreate a live sounding orchestra. Making beats is what actually makes it onto the radio. Like it or not it’s what the kids are listening to.


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## Crowe (Aug 19, 2020)

ag75 said:


> But “making beats” is arguably more authentic than trying to recreate orchestral mock ups one could argue. Making beats is it’s own art form. Most of us in here are just trying to recreate a live sounding orchestra. Making beats is what actually makes it onto the radio. Like it or not it’s what the kids are listening to.



Mocking up orchestral recreations is a form of 'Art study' I would think, in the same vein of recreating builds, drops etc. Different skillsets to be sure, but I don't think 'authenticity' is relevant in art studies.


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## GusGranite (Aug 19, 2020)

Making beats is just a hip hop thing. I’m 45 and we’ve been saying it since we were young’uns. We used to call ourselves beat heads. We just appreciated hip hop production (still do).

it’s a pretty old term now. 🙂


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## telecode101 (Aug 19, 2020)

..


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## chimuelo (Aug 19, 2020)

Trap is old tech actually.
I stumbled across it after sequencing Birds Of Fire by Mahavishnu Orchestra.

Realized by copying a bass track from the 360 Systems MIDI Bass on my QX-1 twice for three tracks, then “clocking“ a track 20 clicks left, then the second copy 20 clicks right, the Module would strike the Moog Bass EPROM 3 Times.

Then did 128th note patterns for the Billy Cobham Press Roll with Velocity at 10 (0-127) and raising it up every bar for dynamics. It was awesome for a kid in 1985.

Saved the patterns and used it high hats, toms.

We called them Zippers. Sold 5 1/4” Floppies in the back of keyboard mag where Northern Sounds sold Emulator II samples. Made enough money to pay off my first house, which I gave my X Wife.

Trap is old school for me.
And I’m simply coming full circle now, but you don’t need an AkaI if you got Realitones HipHop Creator.

Mikes new update even comes with a fake gold chain referred to as the Mr. T. Starter Kit.


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## GusGranite (Aug 19, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> I dont think it's relegated to just hip-hop. Lots of create beat making in various EDM, Lo-Fi and chillstep genres.



True. Lots of crossover there.


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## robgb (Aug 19, 2020)

The real test is this. Even if you were writing EDM or hip hop, how many of you would feel comfortable announcing to the world that you're "making beats?" 

I think my problem with the phrase is that it trivializes what musicians and producers do. It's like a master chef saying he likes to make yum yum.


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## robgb (Aug 19, 2020)

PS. People are taking my post waaay too seriously.


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## babylonwaves (Aug 19, 2020)

let me say this: "making beats" shows the gradual shift from _melody_ to _rhythm_. I'm no native speaker but in the circle of my composer friends, the reference started to get used a lot when nu school and break beats were a thing. I don't mind the expression so much, but i wouldn't use it, because i don't think it covers the entire process. and frankly, there are just too many stupid things out there. Like for instance "My Ableton".


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## chocobitz825 (Aug 19, 2020)

in many ways it does reflect how the business has changed for creators. The shift from composer to beat maker and producer shows the DIY nature of the music biz lately. They're not making the whole song, they're making the rhythm. Whether it turns out to be an R&B song, or pop song, or rap song is really not their concern. they make the beat, sell it to the artist or producer, and they take on the rest. The term producer seems to be pretty broad nowadays too, since I guess many of the people making the toplines are trying to do the rest of the production as well to make their money. Just people trying to survive.


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## DerGeist (Aug 19, 2020)

robgb said:


> No one beat Chopin in my opinion, but different strokes for different folks and all that.


Chopin was all about the beats. I will leave this here:



FWIW, I know this is garbage. Me and a friend are in the process of working our way through the RCM piano repatoire as some sort of coping mechanism. I got bored halfway through re-living grade 5 and tried to life a couple of bars of Chopin's raindrop prelude as a trap beat melody. Mostly an exercise to remember how to use my MPC.

Again, total garbage, I do not endorse this "song"


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## jsaras (Aug 19, 2020)

I used to just launch Stylus and "make beats". Then I found 5 new ways to do it


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## DerGeist (Aug 19, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> let me say this: "making beats" shows the gradual shift from _melody_ to _rhythm_. I'm no native speaker but in the circle of my composer friends, the reference started to get used a lot when nu school and break beats were a thing. I don't mind the expression so much, but i wouldn't use it, because i don't think it covers the entire process. and frankly, there are just too many stupid things out there. Like for instance "My Ableton".


I think you are correct here. I do some hip hop and EDM for fun and a night out with friends and it is always a bit of an eye opener. They make beats (drums) like nobody's business. It looks simple but there is a skill to it. There are a whole lot of terrible beats out there (see above) and very few good ones. My EDM/HipHop friends tend to avoid melody because it is a technical challenge if you don't play a traditional instrument or have some knowledge of scales etc. I once got a compliment for a melody i "wrote" for a friends beat. It was a d minor scale ascending, in order, in 8th notes  

The tools electronic music gear producers provide to make this easier for non keyboard players (drum pads quantized to a selected scale) are not only hard to use but also contribute to a lot of music sounding similar since everything is diatonic with accidentals being difficult to pull off. 

Anyway, everything is easy to do badly and most things are hard to do well. Kind of glad I have the opportunity to live in both worlds.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 19, 2020)

mattfourmat said:


> Some have you guys have been around long enough to realise that CHANGE and advancement in technology has opened up music for more people and it will continue to do so. Embrace change... sure there are people coming into your space with way less experience and knowledge and sometimes it can be cringey for sure, but that's just how it is. If you're a composer then beat makers should not bother you too much



This is a separate discussion, but unfortunately embracing it also means embracing a lot more garbage.

I'm happy that people can play around with music toys; I'm not happy when that's passed off as it not being necessary to do the hard work to create real music - to say nothing of what musical training does for people's brain development.

The camera created a new art form - photography - rather than replacing painting.


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## telecode101 (Aug 19, 2020)

..


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## telecode101 (Aug 19, 2020)

..


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## telecode101 (Aug 19, 2020)

..


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## robgb (Aug 19, 2020)

DerGeist said:


> Chopin was all about the beats. I will leave this here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Chopin's version of beats:


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## chimuelo (Aug 19, 2020)

Here's my Outdoor lithium powered (7 hours) rig.
Poolside, Bar B Q, Park, where ever you want.

Use the DAW, transfer the music/tracks to the hardware, or just create on the fly.

This is for learning new songs ATM. iPad/Spotify into the Akai, match sounds, do the bass parts and drums.
Have some fun and make some money.
Watch the booty shakes at night.


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 19, 2020)

Interesting discussion.

I think the image of a typical "beat maker" is a little skewed by all those _"download this great midi pack/one loop and you're done!"_ ads most of us are being served as we browse the 'interwebs.

But as a group we should also be wary of making a division between "what we do" and "what beat makers do." I'm sure every one of us at some point has stitched 3 evos and a couple of loops together and collected the payment.


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## babylonwaves (Aug 19, 2020)

Here’s an interesting song. focus on the beat and how it drifts between binary, shuffle and ternary elements.


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## mattfourmat (Aug 19, 2020)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> This is a separate discussion, but unfortunately embracing it also means embracing a lot more garbage.
> 
> I'm happy that people can play around with music toys; I'm not happy when that's passed off as it not being necessary to do the hard work to create real music - to say nothing of what musical training does for people's brain development.
> 
> The camera created a new art form - photography - rather than replacing painting.


Labelling something as “real music” will always be a matter of personal opinion too for each individual. Is real music that track that went number 1 and it’s main melody was drawn in with midi notes by a mouse... or is real music that amazing musician who’s highly trained by who’s only playing in his bedroom that know one knows about?


J Dilla was the king of sampling with the MPC, with little to less musical training and played a huge role in shaping the genre of hip hop. Disclosure, 2 guys who are fully educated in music theory who are very musical are deeply inspired by Dilla who was just sampling...

My point is musical education yes can be very important, but not for everyone. Music can be anything you want it to be....


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## jonathanparham (Aug 19, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> Here's my Outdoor lithium powered (7 hours) rig.
> Poolside, Bar B Q, Park, where ever you want.
> 
> Use the DAW, transfer the music/tracks to the hardware, or just create on the fly.
> ...


Impressive. I see you have the new mpc mini keyboard. I am curious, are those full sized keys? Hard to tell from the picture


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## jonathanparham (Aug 19, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> Here’s an interesting song. focus on the beat and how it drifts between binary, shuffle and ternary elements.



Have listened to Flume on Spotify before


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## MaxOctane (Aug 19, 2020)

This is the weirdest thread 

Sub-groups adopt their own language. "Making beats" differentiates itself from "songwriting" since you usually don't put words to the beats -- someone else does that. It differentiates itself from "composing" because of the emphasis on groove, layering, and atmosphere. Harmony and melody are secondary. Likewise, "producers" call themselves that to represent their workflow, which is not to sit down and write a song or "compose" music. Do we freak out when someone describes themselves as a "DJ"?

Anyway, here's my favorite YouTube producer:









ghxst


musician //




www.youtube.com





One of my favorite beats of his.


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## DerGeist (Aug 19, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> I think its good to chat about it and get different thoughts and opinions. I used to be very confused why bedroom musicians called themselves "producers" as I always associated producers in the tradition sense with people like Richard Perry or Mutt Lange or Todd Rundgren.
> 
> But when you think about it, the term "producer" is perfectly valid in the modern sense. They make music on their home setup and release it - hence, they "produce the music". So it's fine. its no different than a guy that is into woodworking and "produces" items made of wood. Be it for his own personal enjoyment or for his neighbor or for sale to his community.


I had a long conversation about producers


MaxOctane said:


> Adding my 2c and somewhat echoing what others are saying, "making beats" is a specific thing with a specific workflow/process which is different enough from "composing" that really you'd never confuse one for the other.
> 
> A typical beat-making session would be:
> 
> ...





Nils Neumann said:


> I agree! A lot of weird responses.
> I would say I'm fairly advanced in the world virtual orchestration. I have my mixing chops and play a dozen instruments on a good enough level to help me in my "composer" world.
> 
> But I would NEVER argue, that I could produce a huge sounding beat like they are hip now. I can't make beats. There is so a lot of skill and experience needed for that.
> ...


Great points. It reminds me of movies from the 50s and 60s where they had the composer of the score write a couple of "rock songs" for use in the movie.


telecode101 said:


> I see. I guess depends on the audience you are hoping to communicate with. I think in hip-hop communities, "making beats" is gong to sound much better and in line with what most people want to hear than telling them you are a "drum programmer" or "orchestrator" .
> 
> I liked this one I saw a guy use. "breakbeat scientist!". it is a lot more catchy than "sound engineer" or "sound designer".


Honestly, sound designer is one of the terms that bugs me a bit.


MaxOctane said:


> This is the weirdest thread
> 
> Sub-groups adopt their own language. "Making beats" differentiates itself from "songwriting" since you usually don't put words to the beats -- someone else does that. It differentiates itself from "composing" because of the emphasis on groove, layering, and atmosphere. Harmony and melody are secondary. Likewise, "producers" call themselves that to represent their workflow, which is not to sit down and write a song or "compose" music. Do we freak out when someone describes themselves as a "DJ"?
> 
> ...





robgb said:


> Chopin's version of beats:



I love Chopin so much. If I were to send music into space to convince aliens that we are not mindless barbarians it would be Chopin's preludes. I took up piano after hearing the 24th prelude in the old version of the picture of dorian grey. I still can't play it right.


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## DerGeist (Aug 19, 2020)

DerGeist said:


> I had a long conversation about producers
> 
> 
> Great points. It reminds me of movies from the 50s and 60s where they had the composer of the score write a couple of "rock songs" for use in the movie.
> ...


Wow, lots of poorly though out drafts got appended to that one. Please ignore everthing that isn't about how much I love chopin


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## MaxOctane (Aug 19, 2020)

DerGeist said:


> Wow, lots of poorly though out drafts got appended to that one. Please ignore everthing that isn't about how much I love chopin



As an intermediary piano player, I think Chopin's an asshole. He wrote his nocturnes so that anyone could sit down and play the first page or half page and sound wonderful and you feel good about yourself... then he drives up the difficulty mercilessly --a total dick move-- and makes you run away from the keyboard in tears. Jerk!


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## DerGeist (Aug 19, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> As an intermediary piano player, I think Chopin's an asshole. He wrote his nocturnes so that anyone could sit down and play the page or half page and sound wonderful and you feel good about yourself... then he drives up the difficulty mercilessly --a total dick move-- and makes you run away from the keyboard in tears. Jerk!


I have to agree. And his gigantic freaking hands! First three pages, no problem, then a stretch from E to B.


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## DerGeist (Aug 19, 2020)

DerGeist said:


> I have to agree. And his gigantic freaking hands! First three pages, no problem, then a stretch from E to B.


Not the close B. Skip that one and keep on going.


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## chimuelo (Aug 19, 2020)

jonathanparham said:


> Impressive. I see you have the new mpc mini keyboard. I am curious, are those full sized keys? Hard to tell from the picture




Their Keebler Keys but easy to pull out and clean BBQ Sauce, Beer and Jager from.


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## Stringtree (Aug 19, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> Here’s an interesting song. focus on the beat and how it drifts between binary, shuffle and ternary elements.





I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but this made my stomach hurt. To me, there were creepy elements piled on top of creepy elements, and I was the guy who wasn't given a pill to understand what was going on. Just watching friends glaze out to this horrific miasma without a ride home. 

Bad trip. 

Again, music is a personal history and journey. Exaltation, remembrance, exuberance, celebration, reverie. This stuff just made me horrified and sick.

I'm probably too old. I need to excuse myself from the fun. This sounds like snuff music. 

I'm not sure why Chopin is in the room, but I'm sure he and his bros would be able to get bottle service. I am thoroughly shaken.


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## telecode101 (Aug 19, 2020)

..


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## telecode101 (Aug 19, 2020)

..


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## robgb (Aug 19, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> I don't get it. (And I am a classical music listener). What is that great about the "beat" of that piece? It's just a very well known piano piece from the romantic era. it's in the same tempo and the beat does not change. the entire focal point is the melody.
> 
> IMO, Steve Reichs work with piano phase is classical music where you can say, he did weird amazing things with beats. You listen to it and you can get stoned without the need for drugs.



The beat is the steady beat of the rain. That's why it's known as raindrops.


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## babylonwaves (Aug 20, 2020)

Stringtree said:


> I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but this made my stomach hurt. To me, there were creepy elements piled on top of creepy elements, and I was the guy who wasn't given a pill to understand what was going on. Just watching friends glaze out to this horrific miasma without a ride home.
> 
> Bad trip.
> 
> ...



I don't think it's a happy song either. but since the topic is >making beats< - to me that's an interesting beat. first of all, it's a good example of why those genres are not necessarily 4 on the floor, something that many people still believe. and without this beat, flume's song would be rather boring. also, I find it an interesting notion to apple this binary/ternary mix to an ostinato string arrangement.


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## el-bo (Aug 20, 2020)

babylonwaves said:


> I don't think it's a happy song either. *but since the topic is >making beats< *- to me that's an interesting beat. first of all, it's a good example of why those genres are not necessarily 4 on the floor, something that many people still believe. also, I find it an interesting notion to apple this binary/ternary mix to an ostinato string arrangement.



Indeed it is! However, I wouldn't say this is an example of a '*BEAT!*', despite it having a beat, in the more traditional sense. Here's an example of what's being discussed:


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## Morning Coffee (Aug 20, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> I call the group Gator and the Ho’s.
> I dress like Gator (Will Ferrell) have fake gold teeth, and even use a Mr. T. Starter kit.




Are you for real? Catchy name! If the dress sense and image help, why not! It’s part of the fun and entertainment factor I guess. When I think rap music image, I think of Flavor Flav from Public Enemy and of course, Run DMC.

I still love 1980s glam metal, but it is often referred as “hair metal” now, which can be both a mocking or endearing term depending on who you ask, I prefer to look at it as endearing. The image was often just as important as the music, even if did seem a bit shallow and stereotypical, but it isn't exactly a new concept.

I’m not up to date with Rap music or the artists you mentioned, as I’m more into guitar driven, rock stuff, but Rap and Electronic style music is the new rock n roll, has been for a while now I think. Rather than “the beats” in the music, what often catches my attention in modern rap style music, is the little melodies or musical themes that sometimes happen in the background.

When I think of rap music, I often think of old school style artists like Run DMC, because I first heard about them as a teenager when I was learning to play guitar and they recorded Walk This Way with Aerosmith, it really blew me away at the time. Also, a few years prior to that, break dancing was the new world wide craze. I have fond memories of hip hop/rap music from that era (Rock Steady Crew!), because a lot of my school buddies were into break dancing during that time.

Still to this day, The Message by Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five is one of my favourite songs.


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## telecode101 (Aug 20, 2020)

..


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## doctoremmet (Aug 20, 2020)

telecode101 said:


> flume is great.
> 
> another interesting artist is beatrice dillion who does thing thing where she tries to mix organic with artificial sounds in the drum machine realm. she starts a rhythm and then sort of lets the machines take over and go with it -- it kind of sounds like weird calypso & African beats does with modular and 808s. very interesting stuff.


Flume is great. I also love Lone, Machine Drum, Skee Mask, John Tejada and Clarke in this domain. To name but a few...


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## telecode101 (Aug 20, 2020)

..


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## chimuelo (Aug 20, 2020)

I’m very pleased the thread is positive and doesn’t turn into a snobby Puritan type of thread.
I am from Conservatory/UofM Jazz roots (Rock Guitar too).
Proof that you can cross into other cultures if you want to.

One thing that I often reflect on is the flashbacks I have from a few Classical Juries. Anyone enduring those should be grateful. They defy the current era of “fairness” and pretty much introduce you to reality.
Live performance and even recording suffers no fools.
Fierce competition propels you.

Imagining at the moment after a year of this new direction, I’m called before a new type of Jury.
BeatMasters. 8 different artists sitting there, silent writing down critiques.

Screw the Voice. I’m tired of these boring Masked singers and other putrid shows.

BeatMasters would be a hit...
Toughen up these little darlings


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## jonathanparham (Aug 20, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> I’m very pleased the thread is positive and doesn’t turn into a snobby Puritan type of thread.
> I am from Conservatory/UofM Jazz roots (Rock Guitar too).
> Proof that you can cross into other cultures if you want to.


Which school? Miami?



chimuelo said:


> Screw the Voice. I’m tired of these boring Masked singers and other putrid shows.
> 
> BeatMasters would be a hit...
> Toughen up these little darlings


!illmind and Kenny Makes beats have been doing this with Timbaland lately. I've been impressed and it reminds me of a MasterClass from College. When it's constructive, some of the participants gain valued industry feedback. Some of it is good info regardless of the genre. Their comments during beat battles still deal with Songform and arranging similar things I hear about in orchestration or Jazz arranging.


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## Michael Antrum (Aug 20, 2020)

I've always thought that it is extremely important that those from younger generations create their own language and descriptions for the music they create.

In this way they are able to roll their eyes in derision when an old fart like myself tries to 'get down with the kids' which is an extremely embarassing thing for anyone outside the target age group to attempt.

One thing is for sure, talent and ability is not restricted to any particular musical style, though I must admit I do find much of modern stuff pretty tedious....But every now and again you catch an earworm and think, imagine if you came up with something like that, but you develop and modulate it rather than repeat it until tedium sets in.....



chimuelo said:


> Fire is the word that replaced dope.....



Round these parts, in glorious Yorkshire, the word that replaced 'dope' is 'pillock'....


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## chimuelo (Aug 21, 2020)

Good to know.
UK Rappers are an impressive lot.
Love YoungT and Bugsie's Bassline on Don't Rush.

Best thing about hiphop/rap, no activists try to cancel you over lyrics.
Where else can you say the N word or use words like bitches and ho's.

The dirtiest we get is Nate Doggs, I got Ho's in different area codes.
People like to have fun in the real world.


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## el-bo (Aug 21, 2020)

Michael Antrum said:


> Round these parts, in glorious Yorkshire, the word that replaced 'dope' is 'pillock'....


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## Saxer (Aug 21, 2020)

"Baking Meat"


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## chimuelo (Aug 22, 2020)

Meatloaf..


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## chimuelo (Aug 23, 2020)

Here’s what you need live for vocals too.
The TC Electronics mic has a switch which works well on Shure Dual Diversity Wireless modules too.
It can trigger whatever effect is set up from lofi, to harmonies and bypass default unison settings.

256 Vocoder and autotune is the best hardware available, even better than TC, the mini vent is a great dual rotor Leslie effect like Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd used.


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## jonathanparham (Aug 23, 2020)

you got some cool tools. Do you have a picture of your rig from your live sets?


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## Jenna Fearon (Aug 23, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> 256 Vocoder


Got one right here on my desk. Love that little orange beast.


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## chimuelo (Aug 24, 2020)

Jenna Fearon said:


> Got one right here on my desk. Love that little orange beast.




I hate doing covers half assed.
When I was asked to chart out 24 Karat by Bruno Mars I felt Unprepared so I showed up with one and my Shure KSM8 (broadcast mic) that has a great gated pattern, and the intro all written out starting in Fm 11. Singer was reluctant, wanted to skip the intro, wanted more time. I sang it to show how easy it is because my voice is reason for immediate termination, unless Bathed in science.

A friend uses a stereo Pro24 with 2 x 256’s.
Autotune one channel and Vocode the 2nd Channel.
Using a Mid/Side Brainrox EQ he shapes the sound and it’s really top shelf.


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## Rasoul Morteza (Aug 24, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I love hiphop, that is: before they started using 808 hihats in 32nd note triplets and calling it trap. My daughter loves it. She is 15 and every time something remotely subbass-like comes through a speaker she calls it “808”. So in a weird way that makes me happy haha.


Eminem's Kamikaze album is a good example of combining the so called trap beat with some heavy lyrical work (Lucky you, The Ringer...). I personally have nothing against trap beats, they can be quite fun. It's just the majority of them have absolute crappy lyrics/content.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 24, 2020)

Rasoul Morteza said:


> Eminem's Kamikaze album is a good example of combining the so called trap beat with some heavy lyrical work (Lucky you, The Ringer...). I personally have nothing against trap beats, they can be quite fun. It's just the majority of them have absolute crappy lyrics/content.


Me neither. In the spirit of the thread I may have deliberately used the hyperbole as an art form here. What I do mean though is that the sheer overexposure to said 32nd hihats has lead to a certain fatigue 

Edit; also I am old and my 15 year old says “ok boomer” a lot. Especially at those times I explain that being born in 1971 technically automatically does not make her dad a boomer.


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## storyteller (Aug 24, 2020)

chimuelo said:


> I hate doing covers half assed.
> ...because my voice is reason for immediate termination, unless Bathed in science.


 I feel the same way about my voice. But science/technology has worked wonders on it! Ha.


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## Michel Simons (Aug 24, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Me neither. In the spirit of the thread I may have deliberately used the hyperbole as an art form here. What I do mean though is that the sheer overexposure to said 32nd hihats has lead to a certain fatigue
> 
> Edit; also I am old and my 15 year old says “ok boomer” a lot. Especially at those times I explain that being born in 1971 technically automatically does not make her dad a boomer.



And being born in 1971 doesn't make you old...no, it doesn't....absolutely not.....


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## doctoremmet (Aug 24, 2020)

Michel Simons said:


> And being born in 1971 doesn't make you old...no, it doesn't....absolutely not.....


Cue a 15 year old girl saying OK Boomer


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## jonathanparham (Aug 24, 2020)

found Neon Vines on DJ Pain 1s video channel


----------



## Henu (Aug 24, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> also I am old and my 15 year old says “ok boomer” a lot. Especially at those times I explain that being born in 1971 technically automatically does not make her dad a boomer.



I just had this same sort of discussion with my BROTHER (b.1986) a month ago when he called me (b.1978) a fucking _boomer_. :D That being said, he also likes rap music. And anime. Jesus christ.


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## Daniel (Aug 24, 2020)

jonathanparham said:


> found Neon Vines on DJ Pain 1s video channel



Wow! Thank you. 
I hope I could fine her beats and voice in the Splice


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## MaxOctane (Aug 24, 2020)

jonathanparham said:


> found Neon Vines on DJ Pain 1s video channel




Ok, since this thread is already full of tangents...

Am I the only one just a bit suspicious that she doesn't really do those full tracks live? I mean it's possible for someone to be that multisync-enabled _and _never hit a bad vocal _and _never miss a cue _and _never hit a bum note on the many keyboards or controllers ... it just pushes credibility sometimes.


----------



## jonathanparham (Aug 24, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> Ok, since this thread is already full of tangents...
> 
> Am I the only one just a bit suspicious that she doesn't really do those full tracks live? I mean it's possible for someone to be that multisync-enabled _and _never hit a bad vocal _and _never miss a cue _and _never hit a bum note on the many keyboards or controllers ... it just pushes credibility sometimes.


Well we were talking rigs and beats so I thought it was interesting the tools she's using are prime beat making tools. At the end of the video, she's showing tools and does demo her pre-recorded playback. IMO I don't think it's suspicious. We could segue into what is live performance now if you want lol


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## telecode101 (Aug 25, 2020)

..


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## el-bo (Aug 25, 2020)

MaxOctane said:


> Ok, since this thread is already full of tangents...
> 
> Am I the only one just a bit suspicious that she doesn't really do those full tracks live? I mean it's possible for someone to be that multisync-enabled _and _never hit a bad vocal _and _never miss a cue _and _never hit a bum note on the many keyboards or controllers ... it just pushes credibility sometimes.



There are tons of performers around the world who practice enough to avoid mistakes. Not sure why Neon Vines would be any different. However, there's no telling whether this video was her only take. Maybe there were another twenty versions that she cocked-up 

I think the way she has it set up offers quite a safety net; whether it be software to keep straying vocal pitch in-check or quantisation to keep the triggering flowing properly. But that's not to take anything away from what are clearly very well practiced and laser-focused performances. 

I like her cover of 'Beat It'. Obviously the song is already constructed, but she still chooses when and how to interact live with the track. It's tight


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## el-bo (Aug 25, 2020)

And for some nimble hyper-controllerism, check this guy out:


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