# Thought on Komplete Kontrol



## nik (May 7, 2018)

Hey 
i would love to thear your thouhgts on Komplete Kontrol Keyboard. Is it worth getting it? How helpful is this library integration? How did it speed up your workflow?What are your pros and cons 

Also i am studying piano now so i how do you guys like the playability?

Thanks and best regards
Nik


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## Garry (May 7, 2018)

Hmmm... I have somewhat mixed feelings, but mainly negative about the komplete kontrol (s88). But you've touched a nerve here, so excuse the long post/venting! I do feel strongly about it, and want to help you not make the same mistakes/assumptions that I did.

In retrospect, I think I undoubtedly convinced myself before buying it that I was not just buying flashy lights, but that those lights actually were useful (for example, you can set up the light guide so that it helps teach you certain scales - e.g. non-scale keys will not light up/play), and you can set up some unusual scales to help you learn them). In reality, I've almost never used this function, other than to pretend to others when demoing it that _this_ educational function is the real reason I bought it, when in reality, I was just totally suckered by those flashy lights! Which, don't get me wrong, do look VERY cool in a darkened studio! The only time I use the light guide now is (1) for purely shallow reasons, I leave the lights in some flashy, but meaningless configuration when someone comes into my home studio to elicit the all-important 'ooh' (2) I have different light/midi configurations, e.g. all red keys = midi channel 2, so I can see from looking at the keyboard, what midi channel I'm in (not a great use of it is it?!!). (3) I occasionally split the keyboard, and can use different samples on different parts of the keyboard, and use the lights to indicate which keys belong to which library - theoretically, you could do multiple octaves, relating to multiple different sample libraries, but in reality, I only use this for 2 libraries, and I don't use it that often. The driver (controller editor) is very good, and enables you to make changes quickly on the fly, which are implemented immediately on the keyboard.

One thing I thought I would use, which I don't, is the controller wheel on the keyboard to select patches, and the knobs to control patches. I use neither! I don't select patches using the keyboard, because komplete control doesn't allow me to use Quick Load, which I find the best way of running a poor-man's orchestral template in Logic. There are 2 good things about using the keyboard to select patches: the onscreen window is larger than kontakt, and you can audition samples before loading them. Nice, but I don't use the latter feature - maybe you will? I also don't use the 8 knobs to control parameters - they're not in a good position ergonomically (at least in my studio setup), and I've encountered better ways of controlling midi (see below).

Another thing to mention is the feel and responsiveness of the keys. I have an older StudioLogic 990 Pro keyboard - when I bought the s88, I put the SL990 into storage expecting to sell it, now that I had the newer, sexier, flashy s88. However, as it turns out, I much prefer the feel of the SL: the s88 is much stiffer, the keys are noisier when pressed, and I can't play things that I can play easily on the SL990. So the SL990 came back out of storage, and I now have both keyboards on a stand, one above the other, but it's the SL990 that ends up getting used as my main keyboard: the s88 only gets used if I want to play 2 different samples simultaneously, and the old sL990, showing it's age, doesn't allow me to split the keyboard, or at least not easily, so the s88 comes in handy as a 2nd keyboard in those rare situations that I need this.

The thing I hate most about the s88 is the mod wheel and pitch bend. There's a special place in hell for the guy who came up with this. Instead of a wheel, there is a touch-sensitive strip. I really thought that would be so much better than a wheel. I was wrong! They really were re-inventing the wheel, and I never use it - the wheel is perfectly good in it's first iteration! In fact, I ended up buying a midi controller (nanokontrol2 - now _that's _excellent), because I found the s88 mod wheel so useless. In fact, it also got me interested in several other controllers (x-touch universal, leap motion/geco, and TEControl breath controller), so indirectly, I'm grateful that the mod wheel was so awful, as I may have never have explored these other controllers, which I now really love to use, and these add a real expressiveness and natural feel to sound modulation that the s88 mod wheel can never reproduce.

If the s88 was stolen/damaged, I would not replace it. It makes my studio look incredibly cool (you can have the keys in different colours per octave - how cool is that!), but that's about all it's good for. In retrospect, I would have quite happily used the money to buy other decent libraries to play on my SL990, and use the change to buy some Christmas fairy lights to put around it and pretty it up!!


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## Nao Gam (May 7, 2018)

nik said:


> Hey
> i would love to thear your thouhgts on Komplete Kontrol Keyboard. Is it worth getting it? How helpful is this library integration? How did it speed up your workflow?What are your pros and cons
> 
> Also i am studying piano now so i how do you guys like the playability?
> ...


I assume you're talking about the s88?
I can't talk about the integration as I don't yet have my s49, but I've heard the s88 keybed is okay but not the best out there. I recently got a Roland fp 30 and the keys are just dreamy. 
Have you thought about getting a digital piano (that also functions as a midi controller) and also maybe the s25? That's the same money or less as the s88, you get a great keybed plus nks integration and you have two keyboards in case one breaks and needs repair.
I think the best reason to get a komplete kontrol is the included komplete select, which saves you money on komplete/komplete U upgrades. If you're not planning to get these maybe go for other keyboards since NI's keyboards are rather expensive?


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## Garry (May 7, 2018)

One other reason I do find the s88 can be useful: when using percussion libraries: you can see at a glance, where the toms, snares, cymbals, etc are, as they are similarly coloured/grouped. That can be pretty useful, and is the only time I'll load up an instance of komplete kontrol, rather than kontakt, because it's worth the downside of not being able to use multis or Quick Load in Logic. You could extend the value of this in that if you always used komplete kontrol instances, instead of kontakt, you could see the playable range of a library instantly, and keyswitches. I do like that, but because of the limitations of komplete kontrol instances, I don't get to use this useful feature much, as I prefer the workflow advantages of Quick Load.


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## chris massa (May 7, 2018)

I have the S88 and like the feel. But you should if you can play as many 88's as you can. The feel can be personal. With the Keyboard you have to use the Komplete Kontrol app. I bought the S88 because I have alot of Kontakt libraries with alot of different keyswitchs which where setup out of range of a 61 note keyboard and alot of mine now are NKS compatible . I wish that the light guide would work just with Kontakt but it does not. I use Korg NanoControl for Pitch and Mod as well as expression, etc and I assign the things like mic positions to the 8 eight knobs. So I knew the touch strips would not matter. But as usual NI goes and makes the next version with wheels again, but I don't use them anyway.


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## JohannesR (May 7, 2018)

I have the s88. The old one, without LCD screen. I quite like it! The integration is quite nicely done, but the software is resource hungry and clumsy. That would be my main criticism.

The mod wheel is horrible, but I use a dedicated controller, so it doesn’t matter to me personally, but I’m sure it could be a show stopper for some.


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## StillLife (May 7, 2018)

As with everything, it depends on what you are looking for. For people with large orchestral templates who are working with multis in kontakt, for instance, the Komplete Kontrol might not be the best option. Me, however, wouldn't do without this keyboard anymore. I have the s61 MK2 (which has normal and sturdy wheels and two great color screens) and it really suits my workflow. I work with a lot of NKS-libraries, and I like to browse on the fly, when in writing mode, from the keyboard. I use a template with mostly empty instances of KK, so I can navigate and browse from the keyboard easily. The lightguide helps tremendously with percussion libraries, but also shows keyswitches, and layers in libraries like Symphonic Evolutions and Novo Rhythmic Textures. The semi weighted keybeds (not the one in the S88) are widely considered to be one of the best out there, and I concur (though I have not used all the others...). The MK2's (sadly there is no S88 mk2) also have nice Daw-integration if you work with Cubase, Logic or Ableton. I can call up the mixer on the keyboard's screen and quickly adjust pan and volume from the keyboard. I can set loop, click and automation. If you use Maschine, the integration gets even deeper. 
Mind you, my KK mk2 is not perfect, as nothing is, but what it does, it does very well. 
Also: the software gets updated once in a while. Lately, we users gained the opportunity to add FX-plugins to a sound within the Komplete Kontrol software, again from the keyboard. Still in its infancy, this feature, but it shows the future of the board I think: integration & workflow. I like it a lot.


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## thereus (May 7, 2018)

The s88 feels like a piano, more or less, which is great. Komplete Kontrol is fun to play with, but otherwise not so useful, although some of the NKS mappings to knobs is pretty handy and the lights can be useful for some libraries where you want to have the instrument range / key maps easily identifiable. Personally, I love the slider strips, but this seems to put me in the minority. 

Summary: don’t buy this for Kontrol, buy the keyboard that you most like the weighting on.


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## chrisphan (May 7, 2018)

Garry said:


> If the s88 was stolen/damaged, I would not replace it. It makes my studio look incredibly cool (you can have the keys in different colours per octave - how cool is that!), but that's about all it's good for. In retrospect, I would have quite happily used the money to buy other decent libraries to play on my SL990, and use the change to buy some Christmas fairy lights to put around it and pretty it up!!



Reminds me so much of my Maschine, which I ended up selling.


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## R. Soul (May 7, 2018)

Garry said:


> I do like that, but because of the limitations of komplete kontrol instances, I don't get to use this useful feature much, as I prefer the workflow advantages of Quick Load.


You can turn Komplete kontrol into normal Kontakt by clicking on the arrow next to the magnifying glass at the top, then go to 'View' and then 'Edit view'.

I actually like the touch strip. It enables me to jump from 0 to 80-ish and back repeatedly in a split second for example. This is much harder to do on a wheel.

I also find the light guide really helpful when using things like guitar libraries that have strum keys and for finding snares, kicks etc. in drum libraries.
And I love the small LED screens under each rotary knob. I find myself using the knobs as opposed to my Roland A-800 where I can't see what each knob does.

And the fact that if you are happy with just getting MK1, you can get it for half price on Ebay. No MK2 for S88 yet though.


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## gsilbers (May 7, 2018)

I still have kore2 controller w the integrated software...
Still have it laying somewhere not being used. 
To me this new thing is the same as the kore2 push but w keyboards.
So nope. Def a fad which will go away along w all the support and incredible cool ways a software coulda woulda and shoulda been used that no one except a few do.


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## nik (May 7, 2018)

Hey guys,
thankls a lot for the great infos. So the comments kind of confirm my thoughts about the komplete Kontrol. The fact that i cant use the nks funcion in Logic is like a deal breaker for me. I tried the Keyboard out by now and it seems to be semi weighted, feels nothing like a real piano and i think i gotta skip that. Thanks a lot everyone!!


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## Garry (May 8, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> You can turn Komplete kontrol into normal Kontakt by clicking on the arrow next to the magnifying glass at the top, then go to 'View' and then 'Edit view'.



Actually, that's pretty cool, I didn't know that. Unfortunately, it doesn't solve the limitation that prevents me from using KK in Logic, which is lack of access to Quick Load, but on the odd occasion that I do load up a KK instance, I'll use this feature, so thanks.


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## StillLife (May 8, 2018)

nik said:


> Hey guys,
> thankls a lot for the great infos. So the comments kind of confirm my thoughts about the komplete Kontrol. The fact that i cant use the nks funcion in Logic is like a deal breaker for me. I tried the Keyboard out by now and it seems to be semi weighted, feels nothing like a real piano and i think i gotta skip that. Thanks a lot everyone!!


I think you are mistaken here: NKS works in every daw. Garry meant he can't use Kontakt's quickload from the board (you can't in any daw, the keyboard is not made for Kontakt but for Komplete Kontrol, thougj you can run Kontakt inside KK). Integration of KK in logic is quite good, I heard, including transport and mixing. There is a weighted version (s88), just not an MK2-one.


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## Garry (May 8, 2018)

StillLife said:


> I think you are mistaken here: NKS works in every daw. Garry meant he can't use Kontakt's quickload from the board (you can't in any daw, the keyboard is not made for Kontakt but for Komplete Kontrol, thougj you can run Kontakt inside KK). Integration of KK in logic is quite good, I heard, including transport and mixing. There is a weighted version (s88), just not an MK2-one.


Yes, that’s correct StillLife - I’m only referring to QuickLoad with regard to Logic - everything else works fine in Logic: you just open up a KK instance, rather than Kontakt. 

That said, I don’t rate the weighted keys of the s88 - too stiff, and doesn’t feel like a piano at all to me, but that’s just personal preference - seems like the OP agrees on that, but it’s an individual feeling, and others may differ.

Another thing to consider: I mentioned that I don’t use the knobs to control parameters. One of the reasons is that knobs, as opposed to faders, are just not usable for most of the parameters that I want to control (eg dynamics, vibrato, expression), so I that’s why I use other controls. I can imagine others who use different types of parameters for their music may find knobs work for them, if you’ll pardon the expression!


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## Garry (May 9, 2018)

StillLife said:


> I think you are mistaken here: NKS works in every daw. Garry meant he can't use Kontakt's quickload from the board (you can't in any daw, the keyboard is not made for Kontakt but for Komplete Kontrol, thougj you can run Kontakt inside KK). Integration of KK in logic is quite good, I heard, including transport and mixing. There is a weighted version (s88), just not an MK2-one.


HEY, WAIT A MINUTE....!!!!

So it turns out you CAN use QuickLoad in Kontakt under Komplete Kontrol!! You were absolutely right, but I mustn't have followed your simple instructions carefully enough. Sure enough, there in the 'Edit View' is access to QuickLoad! Awesome! Ok, so now I can use both QuickLoad and the light guide together, which is a great combination. Plus, with the Plug-In panel selected, I can view the controllers: as I mentioned previously that's not that useful for expression controls (as faders, not knobs are what's needed here), but I can see the microphones too, for which knobs are great! Yeah! I can also now use the functionality of the sound preset preview, which I liked, but didn't want to give up Quickload access for. This makes the s88 _much_ more useful from my workflow perspective.

While some of the other subjective criticisms I raised remain (poor key feel, terrible touch strip instead of mod wheel & pitch bend), this keyboard does now seem much more worthwhile, and I can finally justify my rash purchase as more than just flashy lights (albeit, retrospectively!).

Thanks @R.Soul for pointing this out.


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## Garry (May 9, 2018)

Wow, this things has totally come alive to me now! Since I hadn't been using the parameters knobs on the s88, I had mapped only a few of the main controls to my nanokontrol. But now, since the parameter names come up on the s88 knob windows, I can see easily what's available, and am much more fully using the parameter adjustments in numerous libraries, as they're right there in front of me, labelled and accessible. It's also freed up my xtouch universal, which I had been using for cc modulation (in addition to the nanokontrol - but that combination was often problematic), so now I have 3 dedicated control units: xtouch universal for mixing, nanokontrol for cc modulation, and s88 knobs for labelled non-fader appropriate parameters. I've since learned that you can easily set up a configuration of knobs for a specific combination that you want, making this very customisable. Using the combination of my s88 and SL990 PRO, I can still use the keyboard of the SL990, but it still activates the light guide on the s88, so best of both worlds! 

OK - totally changed my view on this thing! It's awesome! Go buy it OP!!


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## pettinhouse (May 9, 2018)

I bought the S61 and I gave it back. I can't get rid of my Yamaha FS action. For me it's just a matter of action and I couldn't stand the action from the S61. 
Consider that this is only my personal opinion based on the need to have a good action rather than various functions, knobs and sliders. 
Frankly I think Native Instruments did a great job with the integration between software and machine but for me the action still...is not convincing.


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## Manaberry (May 15, 2018)

I really love the Komplete Kontrol integration, quick load and sample preview (huge time saving), but the plugin integration can't handle more than one instrument in the KK rack (Komplete Kontrol is just Kontakt wrapped in KK, so it works having multiples instr. in fact).
Also, I don't have that much gear, so the mixing panel, and all the daw controls buttons, knobs, and so on are really helpful in my case. I'm a bad piano player, lights are a good plus to me haha.

So, I prefer to have all my multi racks with my UACC mapping on my tablet for big orchestral project. (Also tired to force the Edit view to save, load, etc).
On another hand I do like having my KK template to quick select inst. and plugins when I work with friends on early project without using the mouse.


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## Garry (May 15, 2018)

Manaberry said:


> So, I prefer to have all my multi racks with my UACC mapping on my tablet for big orchestral project. (Also tired to force the Edit view to save, load, etc).



How do you do this? I know there are apps to do this that work well with Cubase, but would love to be able to do this with Logic.


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## Manaberry (May 15, 2018)

Garry said:


> How do you do this? I know there are apps to do this that work well with Cubase, but would love to be able to do this with Logic.



With Spitfire Libraries for instance I lock the articulations to UACC. Then on TouchOSC (Android tablet in my case), there is a key note assigned to an articulation (from C-2 to B-1). The midi signal is translated into a KSP script that convert it to UACC to change the articulation; the note itself is recorded in the midi track with the instrument midi notes.

Most of the job is done in Kontakt, so you should be able to do that in Logic.


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## xgman (May 16, 2018)

I have had a S88 and now a S61 Mk2. The most helpful thing for me is the light guide for seeing where patches and control keys are on supported plugs. That has been somewhat of a game changer. It would be hard for me to move away from the Komplete system now. Beyond that, I don't take enough advantage of the keyboards built in integrated controls but they seem to do the job for basic things pretty well. The S88 has not yet updated to mk2 so if you want hammer action I'd wait. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with my 61mk2 but sometimes miss the full 88 visible and sometimes the S88's piano action.


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## Garry (May 17, 2018)

Quick update: I've been using KK since my epiphany!! There are a couple of other things that extend this even more (and at the same time, increases the list of features I wasn't previously aware of!!)

- as of KK 2.0, NKS now supports effects, as well as instruments, so you can load up your audio effects, whereas before you could only load up instruments. Using the preview function, this makes it really useful to quickly go through effects, and also to consolidate screen space, as you add each effect separately within a single KK instance.

- I've got really interested in EastWest's composer cloud, and as of earlier this year, Play is now supported in KK, so you can load up all of composer cloud into KK, and they show up just like any NI library! Very cool that this then provides a great way to integrate Play within Kontakt (it's not exactly that, but the effect is the same). 

Again, maybe others already knew of these features, but since they're fairly recent, perhaps it may be new info to some, and like me, might change how you view the value of KK.


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## Jeremy Spencer (May 18, 2018)

I just bought an S88, as I was looking for a weighted 88 key controller. Haven't spent a ton of time with it yet, but so far this thing is amazing and I personally love the keybed. And yes, having all of the EW stuff right in KK is sweet. I love my Nektar Impact LX88+, but since taking piano lessons, I prefer the weighted action of the S88.


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