# VEPro Decouple Question



## Dan Drebing (Jun 29, 2019)

I've read a bunch of threads on here and VSL and my manual about VEPro Decoupling, but I can't seem to wrap my head around it. My confusion is about what exactly decoupling is supposed to control. I thought it was supposed to affect saving changes made to the VEPro instance while working on a project, but while testing on my machine it's not working the way I thought.

Let's say that I want to make changes to my VEPro project (like mic mixes or panning using CC) but _only _for the current Cubase project I'm working on. Am I supposed to turn off decoupling so that when I make an edit to the VEPro instance that change gets somehow associated with the Cubase project? If this is the case, does the original mix of my VEPro template get preserved so that my other projects that used the original template don't have the changes when I load them?

If this isn't the intended function for "decoupling," could someone help explain what it's meant to control? I'm getting more and more turned around the more I read.


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## jneebz (Jun 29, 2019)

I struggled with this for a long time. It's really is quite nebulous. But hopefully this will help:



Dan Drebing said:


> My confusion is about what exactly decoupling is supposed to control


It decouples VEPro so that your project save times are (much) faster on large templates... _i.e You save DAW project settings, but the VEP information is NOT linked to your DAW project._



Dan Drebing said:


> I thought it was supposed to affect saving changes made to the VEPro instance while working on a project, but while testing on my machine it's not working the way I thought.


The changes to your VEP template only get saved with your DAW project _if you save while COUPLED to VEP_. So if you tweak your VEP for a _specific_ DAW project, then I would do a coupled save immediately after those tweaks.

There is some risk with running decoupled. Like DAW or VEP crashes that disconnect VEP from your DAW before you've done a coupled save. So for me, if save times are long enough to be annoying, I run decoupled, then always save COUPLED when I make VEP changes, or when I just get nervous about it  Hopefully I didn't just add to your confusion...I'm sure there are others that can explain it more eloquently! Good luck!


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 29, 2019)

Or just stay decoupled and Make sure to save vep server project files as often as your daw project files. I have come to the conclusion this is the best way for me to work most of the time.


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## X-Bassist (Jun 29, 2019)

This video may help : VE Pro 6 Preserve and Decouple (there is a separate video for VE Pro 5)


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## Dan Drebing (Jun 29, 2019)

Thanks for all the replies so far.



Dewdman42 said:


> Or just stay decoupled and Make sure to save vep server project files as often as your daw project files. I have come to the conclusion this is the best way for me to work most of the time.



I think this gets straight to my confusion. If you're saving server projects with any changes made for the specific project then you're starting to create dedicated server projects for each track, which means that when you change tracks you have to reload all your samples again right? Maybe I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too where I can keep all my samples in memory but also have track-specific changes to the template mix itself in VEPro.

Edit: I guess I should mention that maybe it's worth it to handle track specific changes within Cubase itself as opposed to VEPro, I may be approaching the problem in a bad way.


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## Dewdman42 (Jun 29, 2019)

I have had many situations in coupled mode where doing something like changing the buffer size in my daw causes logicpro to reload plugins or something and I have to sit there and wait for vep to reload all instances. Super annoying. Maybe I’m missing a setting somewhere too to avoid that I dunno.

It would be nice if vep has a feature that only coupled faders and plugin settings without reloading all the samples of an existing instance but I don’t think it works that way.


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## Dan Drebing (Jun 29, 2019)

Sounds like I should just return individual patches from vepro and handle bussing and routing in individual Cubase projects working from a Cubase template


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## armenjc (Jun 30, 2019)

Does it make sense and you understand it now? If not, I can explain it to you in a phone call that would take about 2 min. We're on the same coast. I'm happy to help.


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## Dan Drebing (Jun 30, 2019)

The one thing I'm still unclear about is how vepro does/does not overwrite your template when you make project specific changes.

If I have synths in my big vepro template I probably want to have them de coupled so that I can save my synth settings as I work. Does doing so mean that my vepro template will have those same synth settings applied when I load other Cubase projects? It seems like it would...

I'll probably end up doing some testing to suss out these differences.

Edit: I appreciate the offer of a phone call but it sounds like I'm probably not the only one here not completely clear on the issue


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## agarner32 (Jun 30, 2019)

Dan Drebing said:


> If I have synths in my big vepro template I probably want to have them de coupled so that I can save my synth settings as I work. Does doing so mean that my vepro template will have those same synth settings applied when I load other Cubase projects? It seems like it would...


I'm by no means an expert at this, but I'll attempt to answer this the way I understand it.

If you save the VEP project, it doesn't necessarily save the individual patch settings. I discovered this the hard way with a bunch of orchestral instruments. I changed the key switch mapping and articulation slots in a bunch of Orchestral Tools Berlin Woodwinds. I assumed the changes would be there when I reopened the template, but they were not. I had to save the individual patches so I believe patch settings are separate from the project in terms of being saved.

I only work in decoupled mode, but I think it works the same way in coupled mode - I could be wrong.


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## Dirk Ehlert (Jun 30, 2019)

Hey, here’s my take on it. I actually think the wording itself is misleading but alas, here we go:
DEcoupled instance is independent from the DAW project (=small daw footprint and fast save times). When you change parameters in the VEPro instance (say spitfire mic positions from tree to close) and save it, your other projects with the same VEPro will sound different, cause now they play close instead of tree. 
Even more complicated with patches that you change on a per project basis - synths, omnisphere, spitfire Evo Grid etc etc etc

Solution:
I personally have my VEPro mainframe set up in a way that I can access the parameters I need to change regularly (like the mix positions) via Midi Ccs. The initial template holds a bit of midi information at bar 1 on these channels that reset the sounds and patches to template default (like tree mix only) so I can work from there in every new project. The only thing that is important is to develop a habit of actually writing these ccs into the midi to make sure it sounds the same next time I open that project.

For me the other sounds like omnisphere are sitting in one extra instance that is COUPLED.

This means that instance is tied to the DAW project, it actually closes in the VEPro frame when the DAW project is closed and reloaded on the next project, so technically everything in that instance is saved with the DAW project. 

For me that’s the best mix of a relatively small project footprint and the freedom to change anything needed. Hit me up if you have any questions.


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## Dan Drebing (Jul 2, 2019)

Dirk Ehlert said:


> Hey, here’s my take on it. I actually think the wording itself is misleading but alas, here we go:
> DEcoupled instance is independent from the DAW project (=small daw footprint and fast save times). When you change parameters in the VEPro instance (say spitfire mic positions from tree to close) and save it, your other projects with the same VEPro will sound different, cause now they play close instead of tree.
> Even more complicated with patches that you change on a per project basis - synths, omnisphere, spitfire Evo Grid etc etc etc
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info Dirk, I came to the same conclusion about synths - I _think _they should be unpreserved and coupled so that when you close the project the tab in VEPro closes. Then the synth will reopen when the project is reopened. My default VEPro setup will just have blank patches hooked up to channels in Cubase.

I'm going to take the approach of handling as much as possible with Cubase, so I'll keep my core sample libraries preserved and decoupled in VEPro. Anything like mic positions, panning, whatever else will be written in the DAW project and VEPro will just react - nice and simple. Anything that is unique to the specific track, like a one time use library, will probably just be in Cubase for simplicity or could also be loaded unpreserved and coupled in VEPro I suppose.


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## armenjc (Jul 3, 2019)

Dan Drebing said:


> Edit: I appreciate the offer of a phone call but it sounds like I'm probably not the only one here not completely clear on the issue



Ok. I'll explain with a visual. I'm on Logic Pro on a master; VEP7 on my slave computer.

If I save Logic song and the instances as Coupled:
1) Launch VEP on slave and I see an empty metaframe.
2) Launch song file on Logic and I see my VEP metaframe load all of the vi-frames that were previously connected to my Logic song file.
(If you load a metafile and load vi-frames before launching a coupled Logic session, you'll have the option of writing over the vi-frames that you just loaded)

If I save Logic song and instances as Decoupled
(wrong way, but stay with me here)
1) Launch VEP on slave and I see an empty metaframe.
2) Launch song file on Logic and I watch my VEP metaframe remain empty (because it's looking for loaded vi-frames to connect to.

so... (right way)
1) Launch VEP on slave and load the metaframe that you had saved along with your Logic song. You'll see vi-frames loading inside metaframe.
2) Launch the Logic song file and I'll see VEP metaframe CONNECT to some or all of the vi-frames that I just loaded.

I prefer running decoupled because 1) if my Logic file is corrupt and I'm running coupled, chances are the VEP metaframe won't load 2) I like running a static template on big projects. Opening and closing Logic will merely connect to my metaframe as opposed to trying to load a metaframe each time I open a Logic session.

If this makes sense, then you can probably see how it might may be an advantage to some to run a session with a mixed and matched Logic session with coupled and decoupled vi-frames as well as frames that are preserved and unpreserved.

An example of this: You're writing cues for tv episodes and you have your orchestra template on VEP with 20 vi-frames as decoupled (and preserved). However, you'd like a different piano sound for each cue. So you run only the instance of piano as coupled and unpreserved. So Logic song #1 uses "Piano 1". When you close that Logic file, all of the orchestral vi-frames remain; the piano vi-frame disconnects, unloads and disappears. You load Logic song #2 and create a piano instance "Piano 2" coupled/unpreserved. You save/close that Logic file and Piano 2 vi-frame disconnects and vanishes. You go back to Logic song #1 and your template remains as is, connects, and also loads/connects to Piano 1 vi-frame again.

I always make a backup of my metaframe file in the even it too becomes corrupt and sometimes I will save a big template coupled only as a backup file.

Hope that helps.


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## Ashermusic (Jul 5, 2019)

armenjc said:


> so... (right way)
> 1) Launch VEP on slave and load the metaframe that you had saved along with your Logic song. You'll see vi-frames loading inside metaframe.
> 2) Launch the Logic song file and I'll see VEP metaframe CONNECT to some or all of the vi-frames that you just loaded.



Correct.


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## NYC Composer (Jul 8, 2019)

I am mostly doing short form work, but I only use templates as starters. When I'm done with my song/project in Cubase, I save the VEP metaframe with the same name as my Cubase project. If I'm using my slave computer, I save that metaframe with the same name as well. When I want to reload that Cubase project, I load the metaframe/s with those names, then load the Cubase project. It's a few extra steps I guess, but it's two minutes at the beginning or end of a session-at the most.


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## Emanuel Fróes (Oct 13, 2022)

X-Bassist said:


> This video may help : VE Pro 6 Preserve and Decouple (there is a separate video for VE Pro 5)



I guess this video does not help, otherwise people would ask less about such basic function like saving. I am not confident still

the words are to similar, and the possibilities are to many


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