# Pianoteq 8



## slobajudge (Oct 21, 2022)

Version 8 for evaluation purpose appeared on the Modartt site. There is currently a download restriction (at least for me). But it's clear that version 8 is on the way in the near future.


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 21, 2022)

I'm curious what they'll introduce in version 8!


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## slobajudge (Oct 21, 2022)

I was always bothered by the color of the low tones in Pianoteq. With the appearance of Petrof Mistral in version 7, the difference compared to the sampled pianos is reduced, but it is still recognizable. I hope that in this version that difference will be noticeably smaller.


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## zvenx (Oct 21, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> I'm curious what they'll introduce in version 8!


Authentic Piano sound..

I kid I kid.  
But yeah up to pianoteq 7 I am still not convinced. Still prefer the sound of a great sampled library.
Rsp


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## CeDur (Oct 21, 2022)

I used it since version 5. Upgraded to 6, then to 7 then sold it. It's getting better with each release but still this 'synthy' timbre is so recognizable. My fav are Steingraeber, Petrof and Steinway B. I'm definitely trying 8 when it's available to download. Maybe some revolution instead of evolution this time.

I'm talking about acoustic pianos above, because their electric pianos are already top notch!


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## PhilA (Oct 21, 2022)

Despite any short coming in tone, which is tbh getting less and less with each version, it wins so much on sheer playability. I’m excited to see what v8 brings. I love my sample pianos and synths (hardware and soft) but 90% of the time when I sit at the keys and start to write it’s with Pianoteq before anything else.


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## Markus Kohlprath (Oct 21, 2022)

PhilA said:


> Despite any short coming in tone, which is tbh getting less and less with each version, it wins so much on sheer playability. I’m excited to see what v8 brings. I love my sample pianos and synths (hardware and soft) but 90% of the time when I sit at the keys and start to write it’s with Pianoteq before anything else.


Me too


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 21, 2022)

slobajudge said:


> I was always bothered by the color of the low tones in Pianoteq. With the appearance of Petrof Mistral in version 7, the difference compared to the sampled pianos is reduced, but it is still recognizable. I hope that in this version that difference will be noticeably smaller.


Agreed. It misses the full low end which sampled pianos do have. Especially the thunderous low A and A# have certain characteristics that Pianoteq misses. That's my first test on any sampled/modelled piano lib: how thunderous does the low A sound.

I did like the improvements which V7 brought. It really opened up the airy nature of the higher harmonics.

I'm using PTQ since v5 and every new major version was a step up, so I'm curious what 8 will bring.


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## keepitsimple (Oct 22, 2022)

I find it very interesting and ironic that the sound bothers me as well, especially those mids, even though the playability is the best out there which is the big advantage of this plugin.

Why i find it ironic? Because when i go play a terrible sounding (subjective of course) acoustic that is supposed to bother me as well and kill the immersion, i don't get bothered at all.

The reason is bluntly obvious i guess: It's the real breathing living thing that's why, which is a level Pianoteq hasn't attained yet?

The opposite scenario applies to sampled pianos. It can sound gorgeous but the playability is subpar....and then there goes the immersion out the window.


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 22, 2022)

keepitsimple said:


> I find it very interesting and ironic that the sound bothers me as well, especially those mids, even though the playability is the best out there which is the big advantage of this plugin.
> 
> Why i find it ironic? Because when i go play a terrible sounding (subjective of course) acoustic that is supposed to bother me as well and kill the immersion, i don't get bothered at all.
> 
> ...


Software will never reach that level of experience, simply because playing an instrument is as much a tactile experience as it is auditory. You'll never feel the resonance of the strings in your fingers, nor th booming of the low register in your core etc. However good software and controllers will be, there really is nothing like playing the actual instrument.


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## dcoscina (Oct 22, 2022)

I use it to compose with (been with it since its inception) but will replace with Synchron pianos or Noire on mock ups


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## slobajudge (Oct 22, 2022)

keepitsimple said:


> I find it very interesting and ironic that the sound bothers me as well, especially those mids, even though the playability is the best out there which is the big advantage of this plugin.
> 
> Why i find it ironic? Because when i go play a terrible sounding (subjective of course) acoustic that is supposed to bother me as well and kill the immersion, i don't get bothered at all.
> 
> ...


This is probably the reason why we keep buying new virtual pianos even when we find one we like and find fault with each one. Maybe digital can't do it without flaws (at least those who simulate acoustic instruments), or we all have a subconscious longing for an acoustic instrument, so since that feeling is never fulfilled and hardly ever will be in digital world, the search continues.


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## keepitsimple (Oct 22, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> You'll never feel the resonance of the strings in your fingers


Digital pianos with built-in speakers attempt to replicate that "resonance" or should i say vibrations. Of course they're far far from getting there. I remember liking the Kawai ES8 for that reason when i played one.


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## Marcus Millfield (Oct 22, 2022)

keepitsimple said:


> Digital pianos with built-in speakers attempt to replicate that "resonance" or should i say vibrations. Of course they're far far from getting there. I remember liking the Kawai ES8 for that reason when i played one.


Yeah, but it's just not the same depth as you get with the real thing.


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## keepitsimple (Oct 22, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Yeah, but it's just not the same depth as you get with the real thing.


Of course. Blasphemy


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## Malaryjoe (Oct 22, 2022)

slobajudge said:


> This is probably the reason why we keep buying new virtual pianos even when we find one we like and find fault with each one. Maybe digital can't do it without flaws (at least those who simulate acoustic instruments), or we all have a subconscious longing for an acoustic instrument, so since that feeling is never fulfilled and hardly ever will be in digital world, the search continues.


Maybe. or maybe you’d keep buying and rotating pianos in and out of your house/studio if you could afford it.


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## Dewdman42 (Oct 22, 2022)

Real pianos have pros and cons too


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## Fizzlewig (Oct 22, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Real pianos have pros and cons too


Yeah, like when you drop a Steinway grand when moving it out of the removal van! Ouch!!


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## martinjuenke (Nov 5, 2022)

Was this "version 8 coming" news a hoax?


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## slobajudge (Nov 5, 2022)

martinjuenke said:


> Was this "version 8 coming" news a hoax?


It was on the trial page but could not be downloaded. It was withdrawn. Looks like they weren't ready.


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## Stephen Baysted (Nov 8, 2022)

Looking forward to trying it. I tried previous versions, but until v7, the sound was not great. 7 has, however, replaced all my sampled pianos.


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## Fleer (Nov 16, 2022)

Looking pretty grand. Lovely nylon guitar too. And iOS coming up!


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## martinjuenke (Nov 16, 2022)

29 Euro upgrade: not too bad!


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## mgaewsj (Nov 16, 2022)

martinjuenke said:


> 29 Euro upgrade: not too bad!


exactly, just updgraded!


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## Nadav (Nov 16, 2022)

mgaewsj said:


> exactly, just updgraded!


You pay that every year?


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 16, 2022)

Nadav said:


> You pay that every year?


On average every 2 years with a major release from Modartt and it's peanuts in comparison to what other vendors charge for simple yearly upkeep.


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## Nadav (Nov 16, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> On average every 2 years with a major release from Modartt and it's peanuts in comparison to what other vendors charge for simple yearly upkeep.


I don't know... 29 for a UI update?


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## shropshirelad (Nov 16, 2022)

It's not just the GUI that's been updated.

'All contemporary acoustic pianos, the Vintage Reeds electric pianos and the Concert Harp have been carefully revoiced in order to increase authenticity and playability of these instruments. Everything is tailored to suit demanding recording projects and performances.'


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## cedricm (Nov 16, 2022)

Wow, it would be next to impossible to offer even less details on what's new in V8.


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## Nadav (Nov 16, 2022)

shropshirelad said:


> It's not just the GUI that's been updated.
> 
> 'All contemporary acoustic pianos, the Vintage Reeds electric pianos and the Concert Harp have been carefully revoiced in order to increase authenticity and playability of these instruments. Everything is tailored to suit demanding recording projects and performances.'


If there was no change with the underlining technology why would re-voicing make any difference? (I'm assuming they carefully voiced it the previous time as well)


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## rsg22 (Nov 16, 2022)

The v8 website also says “Refined physical model which benefits all pianos” but yeah doesn’t seem like a substantial update. Looking forward to v7 vs v8 comparisons.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 16, 2022)

cedricm said:


> Wow, it would be next to impossible to offer even less details on what's new in V8.


This is new in V8:


New instrument model: the Classical Guitar.
All contemporary acoustic pianos, the Vintage Reeds electric piano and the Concert Harp have been revoiced.
Interface with updated graphics.
New 'Note Effects' panel, with Tremolo and Vibrato.
The LV2 / VST3 / AudioUnit plugins can receive an optional audio input, which is used to excite the string resonances (STD/PRO versions).
Added a loop button for the MIDI sequences (standalone), and also ability to select a part of a MIDI file.
New option for using stereo effects when the selected instrument output is mono.
New midimappings option for using one MIDI channel per guitar string or harpsichord keyboard.
New 'stretch points' note-edit panel (PRO version).
Improved presets menu, with favorites.
And many bug fixes...

And V8 will be released on iOS.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 16, 2022)

rsg22 said:


> The v8 website also says “Refined physical model which benefits all pianos” but yeah doesn’t seem like a substantial update. Looking forward to v7 vs v8 comparisons.


You do hear the difference. I was toying with comparing the Hamburg Steinway and felt it had more body and less top end "clanging" in V8 versus v7. It felt more natural, but that was not apparent in all examples I tried.


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## PhilA (Nov 16, 2022)

Wowsers. All the piano’s sound better and that acoustic guitar (demo) sounds absolutely amazing.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 16, 2022)

Nadav said:


> I don't know... 29 for a UI update?


It's not only that, you benefit from everything they improve until version 9 is released.


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## Markrs (Nov 16, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> And V8 will be released on iOS.


Can’t help wonder how they will charge for this. Will it be that you have to buy everything again but it will be cheaper as it is on iOS (the is the Audio Modeling SWAM approach) or will it be that the instruments you own in your account is accessible on iOS?


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## Windbag (Nov 16, 2022)

Bought and downloaded...



Marcus Millfield said:


> That's my first test on any sampled/modelled piano lib: how thunderous does the low A sound.


Here ya go (Low A and the only bit of a piece I know that actually uses it):

View attachment Pianoteq8_LowA.mp3




Nadav said:


> You pay that every year?


Well as long as they keeping putting the work in to improve these models, I'm quite happy to pay it...it's probably the upgrade I think about the least. The work of diving further into the idiosyncrasies of making a piano sound like a piano using math sure isn't going to do itself.... and I have no reservations about supporting it



Nadav said:


> I don't know... 29 for a UI update?


These update the model function quite a bit more often than they do GUI. I'm surprised how often a new version cures a few keys whose timbre I'm least thrilled about.


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## jooba (Nov 16, 2022)

Windbag said:


> Bought and downloaded...
> 
> 
> Here ya go (Low A and the only bit of a piece I know that actually uses it):
> ...


It's sound to boxy for me.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 16, 2022)

Windbag said:


> Bought and downloaded...
> 
> 
> Here ya go (Low A and the only bit of a piece I know that actually uses it):
> ...


Already did that when I downloaded V8, but thanks 😄


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## Duncan Krummel (Nov 16, 2022)

Here's a quick comparison between 2 patches in v7 and v8. A Doug McKenzie MIDI file with the Steinway D Jazz preset and then a custom preset made in v7. Internal reverbs disabled and sent through -16db of EastWest Spaces II's NY Piano Hall A FR. The custom patch definitely needs reworking in v8, but I'm pleased that all of my custom patches are immediately available, and the increased clarity in the top end from v7 to v8 means this may very well bump out some sampled pianos I have. Love the new GUI as well!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s02baxlt8xg8q88/AABAK2Ac-CON7iBhfQTwkSx7a?dl=0


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## Malaryjoe (Nov 16, 2022)

To those who have been with pianoteq for a few versions, do you know if they tend to time limit the upgrade price or is it going to stay $29 for a good long while?


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## Scottyb (Nov 16, 2022)

Duncan Krummel said:


> Here's a quick comparison between 2 patches in v7 and v8. A Doug McKenzie MIDI file with the Steinway D Jazz preset and then a custom preset made in v7. Internal reverbs disabled and sent through -16db of EastWest Spaces II's NY Piano Hall A FR. The custom patch definitely needs reworking in v8, but I'm pleased that all of my custom patches are immediately available, and the increased clarity in the top end from v7 to v8 means this may very well bump out some sampled pianos I have. Love the new GUI as well!
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s02baxlt8xg8q88/AABAK2Ac-CON7iBhfQTwkSx7a?dl=0


Sounds lovely to me!


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## fakemaxwell (Nov 16, 2022)

The NY Steinway definitely sounds better, slight but it's noticeable. Less midrangey? Not sure.

Concert harp is improved. Probably learned something from the nylon guitar model and applied it to the harp. Thumbs up here.

I tested out a few more pianos (Bechstein, Steinway B, HB Steinway, Petrof) and they sound exactly the same. 

Only demoed the nylon guitar, it sounds pretty nice. I don't have any use for it but if you're looking for a nylon guitar it's probably the best I've heard (haven't been looking very hard though).


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## Fleer (Nov 16, 2022)

Malaryjoe said:


> To those who have been with pianoteq for a few versions, do you know if they tend to time limit the upgrade price or is it going to stay $29 for a good long while?


From the horse's mouth: "Pianoteq 8 - 25% off
Until November 28th, we offer 25% off:
- Pianoteq Stage
- Pianoteq Standard
- Pianoteq Pro
- Pianoteq Studio Bundle"


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## PhilA (Nov 16, 2022)

In back to back comparisons I’m noticing a subtle but impactful improvement in the clarity and power of lower notes. It makes a definite improvement for me 👍🏻


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## martinjuenke (Nov 16, 2022)

Tried it and bought it.
Worth every Cent.


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## Windbag (Nov 16, 2022)

fakemaxwell said:


> Concert harp is improved. Probably learned something from the nylon guitar model and applied it to the harp. Thumbs up here.


Ooh that is good news indeed…. got to go try that


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## Dewdman42 (Nov 16, 2022)

sounds better to me. Love the upgrade price, done.


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## Virtuoso (Nov 16, 2022)

Fantastic - I love Pianoteq!

I almost went straight for the $29 upgrade, but then decided to go for the full Pro version. With the current discount, the upgrade from Standard was $97.50 and came with two additional instrument packs, so it was basically free!


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## skythemusic (Nov 16, 2022)

Wow...this is intriguing especially the Pro at 25% off.


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## Malaryjoe (Nov 16, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> Fantastic - I love Pianoteq!
> 
> I almost went straight for the $29 upgrade, but then decided to go for the full Pro version. With the current discount, the upgrade from Standard was $97.50 and came with two additional instrument packs, so it was basically free!


Are you sure about that? My upgrade offer from Std to Pro says I only get one additional instrument for $97.50.


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## Arbee (Nov 16, 2022)

Every time I see one of these Pianoteq threads I'm inspired by the forum's enthusiasm for it, but sadly I'm still not quite on board yet with the sound. V8 is certainly getting closer so I'll keep an open mind.....


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## Virtuoso (Nov 16, 2022)

Malaryjoe said:


> Are you sure about that? My upgrade offer from Std to Pro says I only get one additional instrument for $97.50.


Yes - I was only expecting to get one, but when I went to authorize it asked me to pick two, so I got the new Classical Guitar, the U4 upright AND an upgrade to Pro 8 for less than the cost of two packs!


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## DJiLAND (Nov 16, 2022)

Very impressive. Classical guitar is also really good.
PianoTeq continues to improve.
Now I want to board PianoTeq too.


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## Fleer (Nov 16, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> Very impressive. Classical guitar is also really good.
> PianoTeq continues to improve.
> Now I want to board PianoTeq too.


Welcome aboard. You’ll be amazed.


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## Cyberic (Nov 16, 2022)

Woody at YouTube has provided a useful insight to Pianoteq 8:

Woody Piano Shack, Pianoteq 8


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## Markrs (Nov 16, 2022)

Virtuoso said:


> Fantastic - I love Pianoteq!
> 
> I almost went straight for the $29 upgrade, but then decided to go for the full Pro version. With the current discount, the upgrade from Standard was $97.50 and came with two additional instrument packs, so it was basically free!





Malaryjoe said:


> Are you sure about that? My upgrade offer from Std to Pro says I only get one additional instrument for $97.50.


This is interesting, I have pasted in a screengrab which shows just 1 pack should be added, so would be interested to see if anyone else that goes for Pro from standard gets 2 instrument packs.

The only issue if you still get one is I’m not sure I will use the benefits of Pro, the screen grab below shows the feature differences and the Pro’s extra features are very niche for most people.


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## Technostica (Nov 16, 2022)

Markrs said:


> The only issue if you still get one is I’m not sure I will use the benefits of Pro, the screen grab below shows the feature differences and the Pro’s extra features are very niche for most people.


I think similarly. 
I haven't used it, but with the Pro version having so much control per note, is it possible to create a pseudo prepared piano layout? 
That could be interesting but still niche.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 17, 2022)

Technostica said:


> I think similarly.
> I haven't used it, but with the Pro version having so much control per note, is it possible to create a pseudo prepared piano layout?
> That could be interesting but still niche.


Don't exactly know what you mean by prepped piano "layout", but I don't think you can emulate every timbre a prepped piano can have. Muted strings or emulate mallets striking them won't be much of a problem, but I don't know how well rattles and such can be emulated.

Pianoteq Pro indeed has control per note and as you can see in this screenshot, there are numorous controls to edit:






Keep in mind it's still software that tries to emulate a stringed instrument convincingly and hence will only offer controls to that end.


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## Technostica (Nov 17, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Don't exactly know what you mean by prepped piano "layout", but I don't think you can emulate every timbre a prepped piano can have. Muted strings or emulate mallets striking them won't be much of a problem, but I don't know how well rattles and such can be emulated.
> 
> Pianoteq Pro indeed has control per note and as you can see in this screenshot, there are numorous controls to edit:
> 
> ...


Thanks. 
I wasn't expecting it to be a direct replacement, but that gives enough control to create a unique piano with great variety per note.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 17, 2022)

Technostica said:


> Thanks.
> I wasn't expecting it to be a direct replacement, but that gives enough control to create a unique piano with great variety per note.


That is absolutely true and I read some time ago about some pretty interesting presets being made by users, like convincing carrilons and such. Pretty neat stuff if you want to sink in the time.


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## hayvel (Nov 17, 2022)

Nice, I still had a yet unused license of Pianoteq 7 Std lying around. Just activated and went straight to Version 8 at no cost, so it seems they have some kind of grace upgrade mechanism. 

But the best news to me is, finally, an iOS version. Pianoteq + iPad allows for upgrading and futureproofing any digital piano. Just keep the device connected to the piano as a fixed combination and you have extended your piano with a big touchscreen and an upgradeable, state of the art sound engine. Lovely.


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## CGR (Nov 17, 2022)

Although I've been on beta testing teams for a number of Pianoteq piano models, I was out of the loop with this Version 8 update, so was pleasantly surprised to see it appear. I paid the €29 upgrade, downloaded late yesterday and had a quick play through with the Steinway B and Ant Petrof.

First observations (apart from the GUI changes and improvements) in directly comparing v8 to v7 with the same presets, is that v8 has unveiled some more depth and clarity. It's subtle, but certainly an improvement. I still find overall there is a lack of "heft" and "woodiness" to the attacks, which the better sample based pianos excel at, but the connection of notes and phrasing, dynamic response and sympathetic resonances is excellent and encourages me to play, which is a huge positive.

One aspect of the Pianoteq pianos which bothered me for years (and which I often mentioned in my previous beta testing feedback) was the lack of damper release sounds. Not the key release 'clunk' of the key stick action which Pianoteq has had for years, but the "Zoink" sound (for want of a better description!) of the damper felts muting the swinging strings. I was very pleased to see this implemented in Pianoteq 8 (outlined in orange below) as it helps with the realism of close mic'd piano presets:


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## Fidelity (Nov 17, 2022)

Markrs said:


> This is interesting, I have pasted in a screengrab which shows just 1 pack should be added, so would be interested to see if anyone else that goes for Pro from standard gets 2 instrument packs.
> 
> The only issue if you still get one is I’m not sure I will use the benefits of Pro, the screen grab below shows the feature differences and the Pro’s extra features are very niche for most people.


Same boat - not really sure I have use for Pro features, but would probably leap if it included two sound packs despite just buying the classical guitar (which just about instantly knocked my socks off). Try the jazz/amped/bowed patches and see if ya'll can resist it.



hayvel said:


> Nice, I still had a yet unused license of Pianoteq 7 Std lying around. Just activated and went straight to Version 8 at no cost, so it seems they have some kind of grace upgrade mechanism.
> 
> But the best news to me is, finally, an iOS version. Pianoteq + iPad allows for upgrading and futureproofing any digital piano. Just keep the device connected to the piano as a fixed combination and you have extended your piano with a big touchscreen and an upgradeable, state of the art sound engine. Lovely.



There seems to be a bit of a grace period as well. I bought my copy in July and got a free upgrade to v8.


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## Nimrod7 (Nov 17, 2022)

Pianoteq 7 was by far my most used instrument. Beats any library I own (in terms of use time), and this year I upgraded from Standard -> Pro with all the packs.

I am super happy, all the packs are amazing. I am enjoying the new guitar so much! What a bonus!


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## Technostica (Nov 17, 2022)

This sounds intriguing:

"The side-chain sympathetic resonance is new in version 8. It uses the incoming audio to excite the string resonance of the piano. The effect is to get the sound as though the piano is in the same room and interacting sympathetically with the other instrument(s)."

From a post on KVR.


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## hayvel (Nov 18, 2022)

Technostica said:


> This sounds intriguing:
> 
> "The side-chain sympathetic resonance is new in version 8. It uses the incoming audio to excite the string resonance of the piano. The effect is to get the sound as though the piano is in the same room and interacting sympathetically with the other instrument(s)."
> 
> From a post on KVR.


Sounds very interesting. Could this be a way to enhance static sampled pianos with a bit of modeled fairy dust? 🤔



Nimrod7 said:


> Pianoteq 7 was by far my most used instrument. Beats any library I own (in terms of use time), and this year I upgraded from Standard -> Pro with all the packs.
> 
> I am super happy, all the packs are amazing. I am enjoying the new guitar so much! What a bonus!


I am curious about the added value of Pro over Std. Do people actually use the 'per key' adjustment, which seems to be the big difference between both versions.... ?


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## emilio_n (Nov 18, 2022)

Nimrod7 said:


> Pianoteq 7 was by far my most used instrument. Beats any library I own (in terms of use time), and this year I upgraded from Standard -> Pro with all the packs.
> 
> I am super happy, all the packs are amazing. I am enjoying the new guitar so much! What a bonus!


How much is the price to upgrade from Standard to the Pro with all the instruments? I can’t find the path to do it in their webpage.

Thanks


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## Nimrod7 (Nov 18, 2022)

emilio_n said:


> How much is the price to upgrade from Standard to the Pro with all the instruments? I can’t find the path to do it in their webpage.
> 
> Thanks


They can provide a quote if you send them an email. They usually respond within the day. 
I was owning 5 packs with Standard. To upgrade to Pro + All Packs it was $329 for me.


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## Nimrod7 (Nov 18, 2022)

hayvel said:


> I am curious about the added value of Pro over Std. Do people actually use the 'per key' adjustment, which seems to be the big difference between both versions.... ?


I am intending to play with this one, I bet it will be fun.
The key reason I wanted the Pro is to have the sample rate unlocked. Standard is up to 48kHz.


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## decredis (Nov 18, 2022)

hayvel said:


> I am curious about the added value of Pro over Std. Do people actually use the 'per key' adjustment, which seems to be the big difference between both versions.... ?


Yes, for me the joy of Pro is being able to create uniquely characterful pianos with (whether subtly or wackily) modified parameters on every note.

ETA: That said, I think another use of it is to "correct" piano models to taste: say one of their pianos you find isn't bright enough in a particular register, you might just sweep through that range of notes changing the hammer strike position or one of the harmonics or something else to bring it closer to your liking. I've not used it in this way but I think that is a practical use of it.


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## Pianolando (Nov 18, 2022)

Duncan Krummel said:


> Here's a quick comparison between 2 patches in v7 and v8. A Doug McKenzie MIDI file with the Steinway D Jazz preset and then a custom preset made in v7. Internal reverbs disabled and sent through -16db of EastWest Spaces II's NY Piano Hall A FR. The custom patch definitely needs reworking in v8, but I'm pleased that all of my custom patches are immediately available, and the increased clarity in the top end from v7 to v8 means this may very well bump out some sampled pianos I have. Love the new GUI as well!
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s02baxlt8xg8q88/AABAK2Ac-CON7iBhfQTwkSx7a?dl=0



That's a perfect comparison and a big help, thanks! To my ears v.8 definitely sounds better! Maybe it's time to jump onboard the modeling train. Actually, thinking about it, I have to do it, right now all my best piano sounds are on a portable SSD but this will be on the internal drive, always, and sounds a million times better than any of the small libraries.


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## Windbag (Nov 18, 2022)

I'm pretty happy after playing around with this...I think I actually like the NY steinway better than the go-to hybrid preset I'd made before to get around thin notes in the C5 range which appear to have been remedied.

There seems to have been a lot of work on incidental noises,: dampers, action, fingers, release. I stumbled across (should probably RTFM) a new glissando method in the harps, where in you hold the una corda pedal (as before) and hit any second note while holding one - it does the gliss seemingly at the second note's velocity, still using the softer pluck from before. This is a welcome change as I don't especially enjoy swiping my weighted keys. Timbre is improved too, as are the chromatic percussion instruments.

[edit: gliss is fairly sophisticated as it seems to be doing some key detection to play major scales, and will 2 two hands simultaneously]

It makes sense that the electro-mechanicals have benefitted from this work...and admittedly it's been a few versions since I messed around with the tine and reed demos (then promptly bought a sample library) but man....they seem to have gotten the Wurli just about nailed. That characteristic hollow resonance is there, with plenty of bark bark when you dig in, and much more pronounced mechanical noisery (especially release). The amp crunch sounds better, too... I guess i know what my next pack will be

Modeling is kinda black box magic to me; I have only the vaguest idea and no real understanding of how one goes about algorithmically recreating an instrument and coming anywhere near a believable result, let alone reproducing specific, familiar ones. Thus I am repeatedly amazed by and grateful for the progress these guys keep making


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## JJHLH (Nov 18, 2022)

I just upgraded from V7 to V8 and to my ears the sound has improved.


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## jaketanner (Nov 18, 2022)

Has anyone noticed V8 is louder than V7? At least standard is. And I don’t mean louder in volume, I mean with the same controller….v7 plays nice in my velocity setting, but v8, is much louder and not as dynamic with the same velocity setting on my controller. I find that I need to set the dynamic slider on v8 to max, to get more dynamic range.


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## Malaryjoe (Nov 18, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> Has anyone noticed V8 is louder than V7? At least standard is. And I don’t mean louder in volume, I mean with the same controller….v7 plays nice in my velocity setting, but v8, is much louder and not as dynamic with the same velocity setting on my controller. I find that I need to set the dynamic slider on v8 to max, to get more dynamic range.


Oh no, they just made it louder??? The oldest trick in the book! Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.


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## keepitsimple (Nov 19, 2022)

Tried it. I like the Steinway B in this version which conveniently is one of the packs i own when i bought version 6 ages ago. But as always with Pianoteq, one second i like it when playing it then i hit a note somewhere and it's a major turn off again.

Side note observation: I immediately played Garritan CFX (full) after it and i honestly didn't feel i was missing out on "layers" or response at all, which leads me to give high praise to Garritan for keeping the CFX relevant among classical pianists after all those years, especially in how it responds and plays.


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## jaketanner (Nov 19, 2022)

Malaryjoe said:


> Oh no, they just made it louder??? The oldest trick in the book! Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.


Not a volume thing, more of a dynamic/ velocity thing. V8 plays louder with the exact settings than V7


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## Simeon (Nov 19, 2022)

I had so much fun featuring Pianoteq 8 on yesterday’s livestream, it is definitely an improvement as with each version Modartt continues to refine things.

@CGR , I borrowed your “zoink“ analogy for the damper aspect 🤓, the smallest of details do make a difference in the overall experience. Enjoy,


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## decredis (Nov 19, 2022)

Oh fun: messing around with the blooming energy, the resonance, and the cutoff and q factor produces, in the guitar model, a kind of sitarish twanginess.

ETA: I mean, I'm sure one could do better than this (apart from anything else, it's washing in too much generic resonance here), but as a first stab:
View attachment sitarish.mp3


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## Malaryjoe (Nov 19, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> Not a volume thing, more of a dynamic/ velocity thing. V8 plays louder with the exact settings than V7


I’m sure you’re right. It does raise the issue of whether developers raise the volume of their instruments to make them sound better to customers or perhaps even themselves. Everyone is so obsessed with A/B ing these days. It’s like no one is sure whether something sounds ”good”. They only know if it sounds “better” than something else. Anyway, I’m sure I’ll get the update just because the old UI was so ugly.


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## re-peat (Nov 19, 2022)

V8 doesn't play louder than V7. And there's no "dynamic/velocity thing" going on which makes V8 appear louder either.

(If you like to see and hear that proven with a little honest video, I can do that.)

__


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 19, 2022)

I have to say that I found that v7, whilst an improvement over v6, didn't quite hit the spot for me. It was a case of close, but no cigar.

I purchased the v8 upgrade this morning and spent a couple of hours with it, and well, so far I'm really impressed. 

That 'plasticky' range that so bugged me before seems to have gone. I still need to spend more time with it, but I think I'm finally becoming a convert......


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## shropshirelad (Nov 19, 2022)

re-peat said:


> V8 doesn't play louder than V7.


I agree - just ran 7 & 8 together, there's no discernible difference.


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## Fleer (Nov 19, 2022)

For me, my Studio Bundle has become a wonderful box of chocolates. Version 8 fulfilled every little wish I could have uttered before. Pianos sound fully natural, and that sympathetic resonance is pretty amazing. I now see why sampled pianos, even the greatest ones, necessarily remain dead in their tracks. A sample is a recording, Pianoteq 8 is alive.


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## AllanH (Nov 19, 2022)

I upgraded to v8 without listening to any of the demos. The Steinways Ds are both better to my ears and sound more natural. I would say the middle register, where Pianoteq sometimes can sound a bit "plasticy", seems much improved. I could not immediately feel/hear any improvements on the Bluethner (my favorite) or the Steingraeber.


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## jaketanner (Nov 19, 2022)

re-peat said:


> V8 doesn't play louder than V7. And there's no "dynamic/velocity thing" going on which makes V8 appear louder either.
> 
> (If you like to see and hear that proven with a little honest video, I can do that.)
> 
> __


My Roland controller is set to the exact same velocity map. i open V8 and it plays louder as if the dynamics are more limited...but I just tried it now with the K2 warm, and it doesn't seem to be as bad. Possible the Steinway classic reacted differently...I am sure the tweaks they made to the sound created this "illusion"...It was pretty apparent at first try for sure.


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## jaketanner (Nov 19, 2022)

shropshirelad said:


> I agree - just ran 7 & 8 together, there's no discernible difference.


I just tried the Steinway HB Classical preset...V7 is louder to me, but i think because the sound is worse. The V8 HB is WAY nicer and more pleasant...V7 sounded harsher. Maybe that is what i am hearing...it varies per instrument.


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## Quasar (Nov 19, 2022)

Michael Antrum said:


> I have to say that I found that v7, whilst an improvement over v6, didn't quite hit the spot for me. It was a case of close, but no cigar.
> 
> I purchased the v8 upgrade this morning and spent a couple of hours with it, and well, so far I'm really impressed.
> 
> That 'plasticky' range that so bugged me before seems to have gone. I still need to spend more time with it, but I think I'm finally becoming a convert......


Interesting. "Plasticky" is the word I always used as a criticism of Pianoteq, and why I never bought it until v7, which I thought was significantly improved, though still not quite up to the sonic character of good sampled virtual pianos. But the superior playability and tactile response made 7 worth it for me, and if 8 is even less plastricy, for $29 I'm becoming inclined to upgrade.


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## Fleer (Nov 19, 2022)

Quasar said:


> Interesting. "Plasticky" is the word I always used as a criticism of Pianoteq, and why I never bought it until v7, which I thought was significantly improved, though still not quite up to the sonic character of good sampled virtual pianos. But the superior playability and tactile response made 7 worth it for me, and if 8 is even less plastricy, for $29 I'm becoming inclined to upgrade.


I think you'll be positively surprised, especially with the revoiced Steinway.


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## Fleer (Nov 19, 2022)

Simeon’s vid is done:


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## Spid (Nov 19, 2022)

Watched Simeon’s stream last night, and it sounded pretty good. Installed the v8 today and tested quickly and I don’t regret it. I’m already updating my Template to have v8 instead of v7


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## Cyberic (Nov 19, 2022)

I’ve just bought V8 and think it’s great. To me it is _the_ piano software that truly delivers the touch and feel of playing a real piano.

I’m pro physical modelling and think it’s the way of the future.


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 19, 2022)

Fleer said:


> For me, my Studio Bundle has become a wonderful box of chocolates. Version 8 fulfilled every little wish I could have uttered before. Pianos sound fully natural, and that sympathetic resonance is pretty amazing. I now see why sampled pianos, even the greatest ones, necessarily remain dead in their tracks. A sample is a recording, Pianoteq 8 is alive.


Steady on old boy, don't get giddy .....


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## Quasar (Nov 19, 2022)

Cyberic said:


> I’ve just bought V8 and think it’s great. To me it is _the_ piano software that truly delivers the touch and feel of playing a real piano.
> 
> *I’m pro physical modelling and think it’s the way of the future.*


Agree. Assuming civilization survives and continues on its current tech trajectory, I believe the day will come when virtual instruments made from recorded samples will be seen as archaic and primitive, a historical curiosity like the mimeograph machine or whatever.


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## Fleer (Nov 19, 2022)

Will take a while before we’re all there yet.


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## ZeroZero (Nov 19, 2022)

For all you pianoteq guys. I own it, I never use it. I don’t like sampled pianos either. What I use is a little known modelled piano that kicks pianoteq out of the park. There is one sound I use every day, the Diamond module. It’s called TruePianos, it’s a truly expressive crystal clear grand. 
Do yourself a favour and down load the 40 day free trial, then you will Understand me. It’s half price and has been for a while, 65 euros. It’s a pianists piano and it’s footprint on your hard drive will be tiny. I have been playing this for more than ten years

Z


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## ZeroZero (Nov 19, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Real pianos have pros and cons too


so true. You get one sound, you need a gorilla to move it, it takes up so much space, particularly a grand.Then there are the tuning problems, old strings, warped wood, hammer felts. A few months back I went to a large piano store and played 20 or more Grand pianos, Non of them could tear me away from my trusty Roland 700nx. I have played that so much that the keys have divots in them. Such joy!


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## Quasar (Nov 19, 2022)

ZeroZero said:


> For all you pianoteq guys. I own it, I never use it. I don’t like sampled pianos either. What I use is a little known modelled piano that kicks pianoteq out of the park. There is one sound I use every day, the Diamond module. It’s called TruePianos, it’s a truly expressive crystal clear grand.
> Do yourself a favour and down load the 40 day free trial, then you will Understand me. It’s half price and has been for a while, 65 euros. It’s a pianists piano and it’s footprint on your hard drive will be tiny. I have been playing this for more than ten years
> 
> Z


I tried the demo a number of years ago and found the playability to be exceptional, and there was a new module called, I think, Atlantis... But isn't this sort of abandonware? There was talk of a v2 that never happened AFAIK.


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## Fleer (Nov 19, 2022)

Truepianos - Welcome


TruePianos - Virtual Piano instrument plugin ( VSTi, Cubase, SONAR ), optimized for realtime performance and an instant gratification of inspiration flow.




www.truepianos.com




Got these a few years ago. Still not M1 native I believe.


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## ZeroZero (Nov 19, 2022)

Quasar said:


> I tried the demo a number of years ago and found the playability to be exceptional, and there was a new module called, I think, Atlantis... But isn't this sort of abandonware? There was talk of a v2 that never happened AFAIK.


It’s only abandonware, if you don’t like it. I talked to the developer there was some loose talk of a new version, but I got the impression it might not happen, but hey who cares. They got it right the first time. No need to develop something so powerfulply expressive. I don’t feel any need to improve it. There are four modules in the paid product. fFot me the best is Diamond, which is the trail version demo. The others to my ears are cut down versions, I don’t use them. Just like I don’t use my piano tea stuff.


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## Fizzlewig (Nov 19, 2022)

Hey guys and gals, I have been really enjoying V8. I have created a Blüthner Preset which I have fallen in love with. I will upload it here, for you to try out. It uses 5 mics - and numerous settings have been finely adjusted to my taste etc.

I really love playing this set at 96khz and I tune the preset to A - 444hz (that tuning gets close to middle C being 528hz) Hope you enjoy it.

I have PianoTEQ 8 PRO

EDIT: Just tried turning off Compensation for Level and Delay, and I like it even more. You may want to try that, to me with these settings off, the piano seems to come to life more.


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## ZeroZero (Nov 19, 2022)

ZeroZero said:


> It’s only abandonware, if you don’t like it. I talked to the developer there was some loose talk of a new version, but I got the impression it might not happen, but hey who cares. They got it right the first time. No need to develop something so powerfulply expressive. I don’t feel any need to improve it. There are four modules in the paid product. fFot me the best is Diamond, which is the trail version demo. The others to my ears are cut down versions, I don’t use them. Just like I don’t use my piano tea stuff.


I know nothing about macs Except the ones that prevent water on your clothes. PC wise, It is vs2 so enjoy whilst you can. I asked if it was going to become vst3 and the developer basically said maybe. at least try the demo


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## Cyberic (Nov 19, 2022)

ZeroZero said:


> There are four modules in the paid product. fFot me the best is Diamond, which is the trail version demo. The others to my ears are cut down versions, I don’t use them. Just like I don’t use my piano tea stuff.


I downloaded the TruePianos trial a few days ago and they delivered Atlantis not Diamond. It was sweet but not Pianoteq standard. 

Not sure if your version of Pianoteq is a recent one.

It’s understandable that people have enthusiasm for their preferred product. It’s always interesting to hear others views and recommendations.


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## slobajudge (Nov 19, 2022)

Cyberic said:


> I downloaded the TruePianos trial a few days ago and they delivered Atlantis not Diamond. It was sweet but not Pianoteq standard.
> 
> Not sure if your version of Pianoteq is a recent one.
> 
> It’s understandable that people have enthusiasm for their preferred product. It’s always interesting to hear others views and recommendations.


The Diamond module is far better than the other modules and sounds really great. With external reverb, the piano excels. I almost forgot about this product but it's nice to be reminded. Thanks ZeroZero.


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## Casiquire (Nov 19, 2022)

Sorry if it's already been mentioned, but how long is the grace period for recent buyers? Must be at least six months, because I upgraded to 7 just in May of this year, and now I'm seeing 8 in my user area! So that pleases me, though it's still likely worth 29 bucks


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## Vem von Helst (Nov 19, 2022)

The grace period is 12 months. It was a nice surprise for me as I purchased pianoteq last December.


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## Windbag (Nov 19, 2022)

jaketanner said:


> My Roland controller is set to the exact same velocity map. i open V8 and it plays louder as if the dynamics are more limited...but I just tried it now with the K2 warm, and it doesn't seem to be as bad. Possible the Steinway classic reacted differently...I am sure the tweaks they made to the sound created this "illusion"...It was pretty apparent at first try for sure.


At the risk of stating the obvious, did you have a tweaked response curve in the old one that's reset on the fresh install? I run into that every time (along with setting not-off velocity to do something, since my keyboard actually sends that)


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## ZeroZero (Nov 19, 2022)

Cyberic said:


> I downloaded the TruePianos trial a few days ago and they delivered Atlantis not Diamond. It was sweet but not Pianoteq standard.
> 
> Not sure if your version of Pianoteq is a recent one.
> 
> It’s understandable that people have enthusiasm for their preferred product. It’s always interesting to hear others views and recommendations.


Oh dear, that’s a change for the worse in my opinion. It’s diamond that is outstanding. Atlantis I don’t use, though it is probably on par with some pianoteq offerings. They were definitely offering diamond before


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## decredis (Nov 20, 2022)

I don't know if this is particular to the demo version (I haven't upgraded to 8 or bought the guitar pack yet) but setting up a morph where one (but not both) of the things to be morphed is the guitar crashes the plug-in and (after OKing the error message) crashes the DAW too (Cubase 10). Layers with the guitar work fine, but not morphs.

I'll report the bug to modartt.


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## synthnut1 (Nov 20, 2022)

ZeroZero said:


> For all you pianoteq guys. I own it, I never use it. I don’t like sampled pianos either. What I use is a little known modelled piano that kicks pianoteq out of the park. There is one sound I use every day, the Diamond module. It’s called TruePianos, it’s a truly expressive crystal clear grand.
> Do yourself a favour and down load the 40 day free trial, then you will Understand me. It’s half price and has been for a while, 65 euros. It’s a pianists piano and it’s footprint on your hard drive will be tiny. I have been playing this for more than ten years
> 
> Z


I went to the TruePiano website, and included with the product is 5 modules…Is one of them “Diamond” as I hear people (including you) mentioning?…Thanks, Jim


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## decredis (Nov 20, 2022)

decredis said:


> I don't know if this is particular to the demo version (I haven't upgraded to 8 or bought the guitar pack yet) but setting up a morph where one (but not both) of the things to be morphed is the guitar crashes the plug-in and (after OKing the error message) crashes the DAW too (Cubase 10). Layers with the guitar work fine, but not morphs.
> 
> I'll report the bug to modartt.


Modartt support just emailed me; this bug is fixed in version 8.0.1 released yesterday


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## Fleer (Nov 20, 2022)

decredis said:


> Modartt support just emailed me; this bug is fixed in version 8.0.1 released yesterday


That's fast!


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## ZeroZero (Nov 20, 2022)

synthnut1 said:


> I went to the TruePiano website, and included with the product is 5 modules…Is one of them “Diamond” as I hear people (including you) mentioning?…Thanks, Jim


Yes, For Avoidence of doubt, here is a copy of my owners download page:


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## Fleer (Nov 20, 2022)

and here's mine (on a Mac)


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## synthnut1 (Nov 20, 2022)

Thanks for the info….I see that in the Pro version, you can run your audio up to 192khz….If you guys are running the “Pro” version, do you notice a big difference in sound when bumping up from 48k to say 96k or higher ?..


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## Fleer (Nov 20, 2022)

No pro here


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## BassClef (Nov 20, 2022)

Quasar said:


> Agree. Assuming civilization survives and continues on its current tech trajectory, I believe the day will come when virtual instruments made from recorded samples will be seen as archaic and primitive, a historical curiosity like the mimeograph machine or whatever.


Just imagine how little storage space will be needed for our massive collection of modelled instruments! And Oh what a waste... all of the money I have spent on all of these ancient mimeograph machines!


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## synthnut1 (Nov 20, 2022)

Fleer said:


> No pro here


Thanks Fleer…


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## Quasar (Nov 20, 2022)

synthnut1 said:


> I see that in the Pro version, you can run your audio up to 192khz….If you guys are running the “Pro” version, do you notice a big difference in sound when bumping up from 48k to say 96k or higher ?..


I'm not a gambler, but if I were I'd bet money that the difference wouldn't reliably pass a double blind test. At least not unless your target listener is the greater wax moth.

Interesting question though.


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## rsg22 (Nov 20, 2022)

I’ve read a few times there are no audible improvements in the specific models I own - Bechstein, Bluthner, Steingraeber. Is this the consensus?


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## Fleer (Nov 20, 2022)

And the Steinway, YC5 and Electric.


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## synthnut1 (Nov 20, 2022)

Interesting !!…Just saved me $100…😁


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## fakemaxwell (Nov 20, 2022)

synthnut1 said:


> Thanks for the info….I see that in the Pro version, you can run your audio up to 192khz….If you guys are running the “Pro” version, do you notice a big difference in sound when bumping up from 48k to say 96k or higher?


No difference. Unless you're using it with a distortion pedal that has no oversampling, run it at your project rate.


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## PhilA (Nov 20, 2022)

rsg22 said:


> I’ve read a few times there are no audible improvements in the specific models I own - Bechstein, Bluthner, Steingraeber. Is this the consensus?


Not in my experience I feel all the piano models have more natural clarity and sound more clear in the bottom end.


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## Markrs (Nov 20, 2022)

I will most likely upgrade, just need to decide if I go for Pro or not. I doubt I need many of the extra features, but when you add in the upgrade cost + 1 instrument cost, Pro only works out about 20-30 Euros more. Of course the question is, is Pro worth 20-30 euros over the standard version.


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## synthnut1 (Nov 20, 2022)

I’m also hearing synth like tones from just about everything but the acoustic pianos, but then again I’m not listening thru $1,000 headphones….I’m not sure if it’s me, or the technology…..The acoustic piano’s sound great !…What’s your read ?


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## Fleer (Nov 20, 2022)

The only instrument I'm not using is the Trinidad metal pan one. Everything else is just so mighty fine. As for Pro, being able to tweak note-per-note is sublime. I'd say, get the Studio bundle if you can.


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## synthnut1 (Nov 20, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I will most likely upgrade, just need to decide if I go for Pro or not. I doubt I need many of the extra features, but when you add in the upgrade cost + 1 instrument cost, Pro only works out about 20-30 Euros more. Of course the question is, is Pro worth 20-30 euros over the standard version.


I’m starting fresh…Pro is $100 over the standard version for me…Do I really need more than 3 acoustic piano’s ? I’m not thrilled with the other offerings…


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## Fleer (Nov 20, 2022)

Standard would be the perfect middle choice.


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## Double Helix (Nov 20, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I will most likely upgrade, just need to decide if I go for Pro or not. I doubt I need many of the extra features, but when you add in the upgrade cost + 1 instrument cost, Pro only works out about 20-30 Euros more. Of course the question is, is Pro worth 20-30 euros over the standard version.


My situation, too, Mark: I highly doubt that I will ever have the need (?) to edit the overtones on individual strings -- yes, certainly nice to have access to that option, but that is not a focus of my piano demands

I will likely add another library as I upgrade to v8; it will be either Petof (which has two instruments) or Bluthner*
(Spent a little time looking at each company's corporate site this morning. I enjoy the history behind these storied manufacturers)



*I currently have the C. Bechstein, Steinway B, and the YC5


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## lychee (Nov 20, 2022)

I'm interested in Modartt's guitar but for the rest I have a feeling of duplication.
Having already Arturia PianoV and knowing now that they are made by Modartt, is there a real sound difference between these two piano plugins?


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## Fleer (Nov 20, 2022)

I like Piano V as well. It's instant and gratifying, but Pianoteq is in another league, both in piano sound, options and sonic breadth.


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## Markrs (Nov 20, 2022)

Fleer said:


> I like Piano V as well. It's instant and gratifying, but Pianoteq is in another league, both in piano sound, options and sonic breadth.


Underneath Piano V is Modartt's Pianoteq engine, though it looks like it is Version 3, so probably doesn't include most of the recent improvements in sound. I do like Piano V and to be honest I think it would be fine for a lot of people with a decent reverb.

What is interesting about Pianoteq is how different the piano models sound. I wasn't really expecting the level of difference that you can here.

Even though I love Pianoteq, my go-to piano is still SS Signature Grand and Noire, as I love the out-of-the-box sound. Part of this is I also haven't spent enough time getting Pianoteq into a room sound I love. I am very tempted with the Berlin Studio reverb for this reason, and that I am sick of have loads of mics I need to blend.


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## JonSolo (Nov 20, 2022)

New user here...bought the Studio from Jrr for $600.

All I can say is INCREDIBLE! 

One of the most playable virtual instruments I have played. Pianoteq 8 is solid through and through!

Jon


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## shropshirelad (Nov 20, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I will most likely upgrade, just need to decide if I go for Pro or not. I doubt I need many of the extra features, but when you add in the upgrade cost + 1 instrument cost, Pro only works out about 20-30 Euros more. Of course the question is, is Pro worth 20-30 euros over the standard version.


Don't know about you Markrs, but I don't have as much time as I'd like to just play the piano, never mind having time to bugger about adjusting individual strings etc. I'm happy to stick with the Standard version.


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## Markrs (Nov 20, 2022)

shropshirelad said:


> Don't know about you Markrs, but I don't have as much time as I'd like to just play the piano, never mind having time to bugger about adjusting individual strings etc. I'm happy to stick with the Standard version.


Time is the big issue. 

I am tempted to write a post and ask how people find the time, to learn to compose, orchestrate, synthesis and sound design. Then learn the various sample libraries, create templates, learn EQ, compression, etc and then apply them, plus mixing and mastering. In truth, the chance of me tweaking Pianoteq note tuning and overtones is rather slim in that list 😂


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## synthnut1 (Nov 20, 2022)

What are the standouts in the acoustic piano’s for you guys that own a few ?..I’m thinking Steinway D, Petrof, and YC5….Any nay sayers on those choices ?….If I don’t go with Pianoteq, I love the tone of the piano by itself in Chroma…I’ve got a ton of piano’s, and will probably get a ton more…


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## rezoneight (Nov 20, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Underneath Piano V is Modartt's Pianoteq engine, though it looks like it is Version 3, so probably doesn't include most of the recent improvements in sound.


5 releases and 13 years behind so yeah I expect it's missing a few things  (assuming you mean v3 of Pianoteq and not Piano V)


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## Windbag (Nov 20, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Time is the big issue.
> 
> I am tempted to write a post and ask how people find the time, to learn to compose, orchestrate, synthesis and sound design. Then learn the various sample libraries, create templates, learn EQ, compression, etc and then apply them, plus mixing and mastering. In truth, the chance of me tweaking Pianoteq note tuning and overtones is rather slim in that list 😂


I have wondered about the cognitive dilution of in-the-box composing given exactly this - go write, perform, record, mix, master and edit.....And QUICKLY because we didn't bring you in until 2 weeks before our mix.



rsg22 said:


> I’ve read a few times there are no audible improvements in the specific models I own - Bechstein, Bluthner, Steingraeber. Is this the consensus?





Fleer said:


> And the Steinway, YC5 and Electric.


I may be misunderstanding here but I hear definite improvement in both of the Steinways - and I don't own the packs but just pulled up matching presets for the other 3 in both V7 and V8 and notice immediate differences - all are less metallic, perhaps a touch warmer, generally more appealing to my ear in V8

I can make a an A/B if people are interested


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## Fleer (Nov 20, 2022)

synthnut1 said:


> What are the standouts in the acoustic piano’s for you guys that own a few ?..I’m thinking Steinway D, Petrof, and YC5….Any nay sayers on those choices ?….If I don’t go with Pianoteq, I love the tone of the piano by itself in Chroma…I’ve got a ton of piano’s, and will probably get a ton more…


Definitely try the Steingraeber, Blüthner and Bechstein.


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## Braveheart (Nov 20, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Underneath Piano V is Modartt's Pianoteq engine, though it looks like it is Version 3, so probably doesn't include most of the recent improvements in sound. I do like Piano V and to be honest I think it would be fine for a lot of people with a decent reverb.
> 
> What is interesting about Pianoteq is how different the piano models sound. I wasn't really expecting the level of difference that you can here.
> 
> Even though I love Pianoteq, my go-to piano is still SS Signature Grand and Noire, as I love the out-of-the-box sound. Part of this is I also haven't spent enough time getting Pianoteq into a room sound I love. I am very tempted with the Berlin Studio reverb for this reason, and that I am sick of have loads of mics I need to blend.


From my understanding, it’s Arturia pianos at version 3, not Pianoteq engine version 3 at Arturia


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## chopin4525 (Nov 20, 2022)

To my knowledge the models revoiced were the Steinways D (both NY as well as the HB), the Steinway B, YC5, K2 and U4 + a completely new Wurly EP model labeled W2. The rest of the models benefit from the 8 core upgrade as well as imho the new stretching method introduced which to my ears brought a whole different world on how the harmonics in the bass and the treble behave. That's quite the material for a version upgrade.


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## Markrs (Nov 20, 2022)

Braveheart said:


> From my understanding, it’s Arturia pianos at version 3, not Pianoteq engine version 3 at Arturia


I believe in the text that was found in the code it does say Pianoteq V3 which suggests it is V3 of Pianoteq, but to be honest it is hard to know for certain. In truth it would be easier to give Artutria the newest version of the code as you don't then have to maintain the old version.


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## rsg22 (Nov 20, 2022)

chopin4525 said:


> To my knowledge the models revoiced were the Steinways D (both NY as well as the HB), the Steinway B, YC5, K2 and U4 + a completely new Wurly EP model labeled W2. The rest of the models benefit from the 8 core upgrade as well as imho the new stretching method introduced which to my ears brought a whole different world on how the harmonics in the bass and the treble behave. That's quite the material for a version upgrade.


Thanks great info. Is this published somewhere?


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## fakemaxwell (Nov 20, 2022)

(Based on testing) can confirm the Steinway D's, Wurli, and Concert Harp are noticeably improved. The Wurli has the biggest improvement, it's a huge step. Very fun to play.


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## Windbag (Nov 20, 2022)

On a slightly different tangent, anyone attempted getting this to run on a Raspberry Pi? I'm been toying with the idea of building some starter keyboards for niece and nephew types (young enough that headphones and volume control might be a good idea before carving out room for an upright) and I'm tempted to take a crack at a pianoteq-driven digital piano (with speakers that don't suck)


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## Markrs (Nov 20, 2022)

Windbag said:


> On a slightly different tangent, anyone attempted getting this to run on a Raspberry Pi? I'm been toying with the idea of building some starter keyboards for niece and nephew types (young enough that headphones and volume control might be a good idea before carving out room for an upright) and I'm tempted to take a crack at a pianoteq-driven digital piano (with speakers that don't suck)











GitHub - youfou/pianoteq-pi: A quick way to install Pianoteq and tweak your system on Raspberry Pi ⚡️


A quick way to install Pianoteq and tweak your system on Raspberry Pi ⚡️ - GitHub - youfou/pianoteq-pi: A quick way to install Pianoteq and tweak your system on Raspberry Pi ⚡️




github.com













Pianoteq installation on Raspberry Pi 400


Installing Pianoteq on Raspberry Pi 400: my experience By Yacob. Last updated: January 17, 2021 0.1. My objective Use Pi 400 as an install-and-forget, piano-in-a-box appliance that I would physically attach to the bottom of the Yamaha Avantgrand N3X. Connect it to a Motu 2 external USB sound car...




docs.google.com


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## Windbag (Nov 20, 2022)

Markrs said:


> GitHub - youfou/pianoteq-pi: A quick way to install Pianoteq and tweak your system on Raspberry Pi ⚡️
> 
> 
> A quick way to install Pianoteq and tweak your system on Raspberry Pi ⚡️ - GitHub - youfou/pianoteq-pi: A quick way to install Pianoteq and tweak your system on Raspberry Pi ⚡️
> ...


Wow that's perfect. Thank you!


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## Fleer (Nov 20, 2022)

For those who think the new Classical Guitar would sound like a piano, try the Gentle preset, sheer Concerto de Aranjuez material.


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## Malaryjoe (Nov 20, 2022)

synthnut1 said:


> Thanks for the info….I see that in the Pro version, you can run your audio up to 192khz….If you guys are running the “Pro” version, do you notice a big difference in sound when bumping up from 48k to say 96k or higher ?..


I’d like to know if running it at a higher sample rate affects latency as with interfaces.


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## synthnut1 (Nov 20, 2022)

Fleer said:


> For those who think the new Classical Guitar would sound like a piano, try the Gentle preset, sheer Concerto de Aranjuez material.


I don’t have Pianoteq yet so I can’t really comment on the Classical Guitar except to say that from what I have heard online, the free Foundations Nylon Guitar that I have sounds better…


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## Fleer (Nov 20, 2022)

synthnut1 said:


> I don’t have Pianoteq yet so I can’t really comment on the Classical Guitar except to say that from what I have heard online, the free Foundations Nylon Guitar that I have sounds better…


Demo!


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## Pianolando (Nov 20, 2022)

I bought the Pro version with Steinway D, B, U4 and Harpsichord. Have only had 20 mins with it so far but am quite blown away by the great sound, playability and how easy, fast and intuitive it is. The slider that changes between mint and worn is insane. Will try it more in the studio but very impressed so far.


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## synthnut1 (Nov 20, 2022)

Fleer said:


> Demo!


It’s free !,….go to heavyocity


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## zzz00m (Nov 20, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I believe in the text that was found in the code it does say Pianoteq V3 which suggests it is V3 of Pianoteq, but to be honest it is hard to know for certain. In truth it would be easier to give Artutria the newest version of the code as you don't then have to maintain the old version.


When I compare the Arturia Piano V2 vs. V3, Arturia have made improvements. I've no clue as to whether or not it's a result of any Pianoteq tech, but Piano V3 sounds better now, whatever it is!


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## Zoot_Rollo (Nov 20, 2022)

Pteq (8) is one of the few seasonal grabs for me.

fan!


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## PhilA (Nov 20, 2022)

synthnut1 said:


> I don’t have Pianoteq yet so I can’t really comment on the Classical Guitar except to say that from what I have heard online, the free Foundations Nylon Guitar that I have sounds better…


To be fair Heavyocity’s free Nylon guitar does sound great. It’s pre, produced, has nice effects in the chain and is most usable. What it doesn’t have is Pianoteq’s stunning playability and dynamics. There’s a big difference here, think of Pianoteq as working with the actual guitarist to get your performance and sound then mixing to suit. Heavyocity is more being given the stem from someone else to work with. Very much a different experience when I’m writing tbh.


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## srodrigo (Nov 21, 2022)

Windbag said:


> I can make a an A/B if people are interested


Please do! I'm interested.


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## jadedsean (Nov 21, 2022)

Is this a paid update or free? I currently have Pianoteq 7 Standard.


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## srodrigo (Nov 21, 2022)

jadedsean said:


> Is this a paid update or free? I currently have Pianoteq 7 Standard.


It depends on when you bought v7. If you did less than a year ago, you should qualify for a free upgrade. Otherwise, it's paid, but just 29 euros.


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## Braveheart (Nov 21, 2022)

I just bought a custom upgrade to the Studio Bundle!


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## Markrs (Nov 21, 2022)

Braveheart said:


> I just bought a custom upgrade to the Studio Bundle!


Did you have to contact them to get that as I noticed that there isn't an online upgrade option that I could see?


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## jadedsean (Nov 21, 2022)

srodrigo said:


> It depends on when you bought v7. If you did less than a year ago, you should qualify for a free upgrade. Otherwise, it's paid, but just 29 euros.


I bought version 7 in 2020 so that should be free right?


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## Markrs (Nov 21, 2022)

jadedsean said:


> I bought version 7 in 2020 so that should be free right?


Sadly not as that was over 1 year ago. The good news is the upgrade cost is only 28 euros


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## jadedsean (Nov 21, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Sadly not as that was over 1 year ago. The good news is the upgrade cost is only 28 euros


Strange policy, so the people that have been upgrading since Pianoteq's inception have to pay but the people that came board last year don't, am i reading that correctly?


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## Markrs (Nov 21, 2022)

jadedsean said:


> Strange policy, so the people that have been upgrading since Pianoteq's inception have to pay but the people that came board last year don't, am i reading that correctly?


They have a 1 year grace period, which means if you upgrade during that grace period it is free, but if you upgraded before then, you have to pay to upgrade. 

Just to say a 1 year grace period is very generous, I have not heard of any other developer doing anything like as long as that.


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## Bruhelius (Nov 21, 2022)

Any examples of how the pro version sounds with internal sampling at 192 kHz? Do we expect a better sounding attack with this when compared to the standard edition? Do you feel a difference there?


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## Braveheart (Nov 21, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Did you have to contact them to get that as I noticed that there isn't an online upgrade option that I could see?


Yes, I contacted them. There are no official upgrade path, but if you ask them directly, they should be able to give you one.


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## srodrigo (Nov 21, 2022)

Bruhelius said:


> Any examples of how the pro version sounds with internal sampling at 192 kHz? Do we expect a better sounding attack with this when compared to the standard edition? Do you feel a difference there?


I've got Pro, but I couldn't tell the difference. Not that I'm an expert sound engineer though :D


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## Windbag (Nov 21, 2022)

srodrigo said:


> Please do! I'm interested.


I think I'm late, given your last comment, but continuing with the piece I started earlier...I'll note that (probably due to poor choice of material) the difference here isn't as pronounced as it comes across while playing.

Here are matching presets with the same midi played through version 7 followed by 8, with the same changes being made (note-off velocity curve start point changed to about 11, all internal effects disabled), running through a logic project with "piano warmth" early reflection and "big room stage" tail via space designer:

NY Steinway Prelude:
View attachment Pianoteq78comp_NY.mp3

Hamburg Steinway Jazz:
View attachment Pianoteq78comp_HBJazz.mp3

Bechstein Prelude:
View attachment Pianoteq78comp_BechsteinPr.mp3

Blüthner Model 1:
View attachment Pianoteq78comp_BluthnerM1.mp3

Grotrian Prelude:
View attachment Pianoteq78comp_GrotriamPr.mp3

Steinway B Improv:
View attachment Pianoteq78comp_StBImprov.mp3

Yamaha C5 basic:
View attachment Pianoteq78comp_YC5basic.mp3


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## Windbag (Nov 21, 2022)

Steingraeber Warm: 
View attachment Pianoteq78comp_SteingraeberWarm.mp3


And just for amusement's sake, my hybrid from 7 that I remade in 8 based on new voicing: 
View attachment Pianoteq78comp_SWhybrid.mp3


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## Captain Oveur (Nov 21, 2022)

So can Pianoteq do ragtime yet?


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## Windbag (Nov 21, 2022)

View attachment Pianoteq8_U4_Ofcourseitcandoragtime.mp3




(I should probably clarify since the internet is no place for subtlety that this is just a bit if fun and yes, pianoteq should manage any flavor of music and the tuning issues are optional/fully controllable/clichéd, and no disrespect intended for either Joplin nor anyone here)


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## srodrigo (Nov 21, 2022)

Windbag said:


> I think I'm late, given your last comment, but continuing with the piece I started earlier...I'll note that (probably due to poor choice of material) the difference here isn't as pronounced as it comes across while playing.
> 
> Here are matching presets with the same midi played through version 7 followed by 8, with the same changes being made (note-off velocity curve start point changed to about 11, all internal effects disabled), running through a logic project with "piano warmth" early reflection and "big room stage" tail via space designer:
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! I was tinkering last night as well. To me, the biggest difference in all the comparisons I've listened to, including yours, is that Pianoteq 7 has a harsher attack that's been smothered on Pianoteq 8. This makes it more realistic to me, as well as easier to listen to. I liked Pianoteq 7 but I felt there was something wrong with it (specially when comparing it to the Kawai DPs onboard samples). I was playing Pianoteq 8 last night and I didn't feel this anymore.


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## jaketanner (Nov 22, 2022)

Windbag said:


> At the risk of stating the obvious, did you have a tweaked response curve in the old one that's reset on the fresh install? I run into that every time (along with setting not-off velocity to do something, since my keyboard actually sends that)


Don’t think so. I scrolled through the presets just in case I did.


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## Casiquire (Nov 22, 2022)

Captain Oveur said:


> So can Pianoteq do ragtime yet?


What's been standing in the way of using it for ragtime?


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## Technostica (Nov 22, 2022)

Been playing with the demo as a morphing keyboards sound design tool and very impressed.
The downside is that to get the most out of it that way, probably requires the Studio version.
£500 is a bit much for such purposes.


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## Fleer (Nov 22, 2022)

Technostica said:


> Been playing with the demo as a morphing keyboards sound design tool and very impressed.
> The downside is that to get the most out of it that way, probably requires the Studio version.
> £500 is a bit much for such purposes.


Start with Standard and pick wisely (Steinway bundle, Electric bundle, Guitar). Together with the free Kivir-bundle, bells and CP-70, you’ll have a large selection to go morphing for a much lower price.


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## Fleer (Nov 26, 2022)

Don’t know if this vid from The Beard Guy has been posted yet, but it gives a good idea of some of the available acoustic grands:


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## Lambchops (Nov 27, 2022)

From initially feeling slightly disappointed that there were no new complimentary libraries, I've now just download the new Classical Guitar (for 40% Edu discount so really cheap actually) and have to say I'm blown away by the "Electric Jazz" setting. Would have paid more just for this sound alone. Played a quick improvised demo below. (I played it slightly slower than this and then pushed the tempo up just so I could be accurate on the chord stabs. When I play single lines at fast tempo they sound even more realistic than this - you can tell by the feel sometimes I think that I've done it slower then pushed it.)
Have also messed a bit with the actual classical sound manipulating the spectrum profile to get a good slightly darker Bossa guitar a la Joao Gilberto and it's extremely promising... but this jazz sound may mean my Shreddage Archtop gets slightly less use at the moment..
View attachment jazz guitarr.mp3


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## CGR (Nov 27, 2022)

Lambchops said:


> From initially feeling slightly disappointed that there were no new complimentary libraries, I've now just download the new Classical Guitar (for 40% Edu discount so really cheap actually) and have to say I'm blown away by the "Electric Jazz" setting. Would have paid more just for this sound alone. Played a quick improvised demo below. (I played it slightly slower than this and then pushed the tempo up just so I could be accurate on the chord stabs. When I play single lines at fast tempo they sound even more realistic than this - you can tell by the feel sometimes I think that I've done it slower then pushed it.)
> Have also messed a bit with the actual classical sound manipulating the spectrum profile to get a good slightly darker Bossa guitar a la Joao Gilberto and it's extremely promising... but this jazz sound may mean my Shreddage Archtop gets slightly less use at the moment..
> View attachment jazz guitarr.mp3


Hope you don't mind, but just for curiosity's sake I ran your demo through Eventide's SP2016 Room verb, with a little EQ to clean up some muddiness:
View attachment Pianoteq 8 Guitar-EQ+Verb.mp3


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## Lambchops (Nov 27, 2022)

CGR said:


> Hope you don't mind, but just for curiosity's sake I ran your demo through Eventide's SP2016 Room verb, with a little EQ to clean up some muddiness:
> View attachment Pianoteq 8 Guitar-EQ+Verb.mp3


Yeah! Listening on my iPhone speaker it sounds more like a steel string than on the original one. Did you take out some mid frequencies?


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## CGR (Nov 27, 2022)

Lambchops said:


> Yeah! Listening on my iPhone speaker it sounds more like a steel string than on the original one. Did you take out some mid frequencies?


Good ears - I pulled it down around 500-600Hz by a few db, and also around 240Hz


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## lychee (Nov 28, 2022)

Maybe by adding an impulse response you will get a sound closer to the desired target, and that's good, Pianoteq (standard / pro) includes an IR reader.






IR database - Acoustic IR


The free IR database lets you search for the IR files that best match your guitar and pickup. Each IR file is an acoustic image of a real guitar. (...)



acousticir.free.fr


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## re-peat (Nov 28, 2022)

Lambchops said:


> Played a quick improvised demo.



Nice example, Lambchops!

I also did a few things with the PTQ Guitar where it no longer attempts to sound like a classical nylon, and *this one* (for which I sent the PTQ Guitar through a Neural DSP amp) I think came out rather well, considering that the dry source sound is a version 1 model of a nylon guitar. You can tell at certain moments it’s not a real guitar of course, but at the same time I can’t think of a sample library that would do significantly better on the whole, and I certainly can’t think of one that would have given me the same effortless performance scope and freedom as the PTQ instrument did. No sample-stitching required: nearly all of the guitar is played live, in one pass.

_


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## Lambchops (Nov 28, 2022)

re-peat said:


> re-peat said:
> 
> 
> > Nice example, Lambchops!
> ...


Yeah! Sound’s great! 
Especially like the low note phrases. Can really hear the “roundwoundness” of the strings. 
It occurred to me after hearing @CGR ‘s edit with the reverb and the graphing that because it’s not actually a sample, it’s perfectly possible to tweak until it sounds like a completely different instrument using the harmonic sliders etc and it will maintain all its integrity regarding overtones, harmonics etc. And yep playability wise, whilst I really like my Shreddage guitars, the learning curve, interface and keyswitches do present more of a barrier whereas the PTQ guitar really is load and play. Which is why I love PTQ anyhow.


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## fan455 (Nov 28, 2022)

The sound of pianoteq's new classical guitar is lovely! Here's my piece of music played on the K2 piano and the classical guitar (demo version). The warm guitar sound feels really soothing.

K2 piano (Concert AB):
View attachment 90780


Classical Guitar (Gentle):
View attachment 01.mp3


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## Markrs (Nov 28, 2022)

I upgraded to Pianoteq 8 Pro from 7 Standard. I got a couple of benefits from upgrading versus updating. 1st my license is no longer NFR (it was NFR due to being 2nd hand), 2nd I got to pick 2 instruments (it could be due to the original Pianoteq being purchased then you got less included instruments). 

The Pianoteq 8 Pro upgrade cost $81 from Jrrshop but to buy an update plus 2 instruments would have been $90 so it has turned out to be a very good deal.


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## berndfri (Nov 28, 2022)

re-peat said:


> Nice example, Lambchops!
> 
> I also did a few things with the PTQ Guitar where it no longer attempts to sound like a classical nylon, and *this one* (for which I sent the PTQ Guitar through a Neural DSP amp) I think came out rather well, considering that the dry source sound is a version 1 model of a nylon guitar. You can tell at certain moments it’s not a real guitar of course, but at the same time I can’t think of a sample library that would do significantly better on the whole, and I certainly can’t think of one that would have given me the same effortless performance scope and freedom as the PTQ instrument did. No sample-stitching required: nearly all of the guitar is played live, in one pass.
> 
> _


Sounds awesome! What are you using for the drums?


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## re-peat (Nov 28, 2022)

Thanks, berndfri. The drums are BFD3.

_


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## TomaeusD (Nov 28, 2022)

I finally jumped on Pianoteq after demoing since version 6. I went straight for Pro because it was a better deal in the long run - I'm amazed how good version 8 is! And the sound design possibilities are mind boggling. I picked Steinway D, U4, Xylophone and Celeste for my four choices and additionally got the Guitar.

Could someone explain a bit about the "thousands of editable overtones" available in Pro? Is this the Spectrum Profile they are talking about as found in Note Edit? It would be cool to see an in-depth video on this.


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## skythemusic (Nov 28, 2022)

I caved and bought Pro plus a couple extra expansions. I’m excited to learn it, been eyeing this software for many years and the sound was finally there for me.


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## lychee (Nov 29, 2022)

I'm not a guitar expert, but I have the impression that Pianoteq plays this guitar with a pick, is there a way to play with the fingers?


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## jesussaddle (Dec 26, 2022)

lychee said:


> I'm not a guitar expert, but I have the impression that Pianoteq plays this guitar with a pick, is there a way to play with the fingers?


Its a finger library. There's no pick to my knowledge.



(Good demo of using the $500 ASM Hydrasynth Explorer's poly aftertouch to control pitch.)


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## thereus (Today at 1:04 PM)

martinjuenke said:


> 29 Euro upgrade: not too bad!


Cheaper than getting a tuner to come round.


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