# Better alternative to NI Action Strings?



## sabin333 (Jun 15, 2015)

Hi. I'm looking for a library like NI Action Strings. But I was wondering if there are any better options?

I've heard that Action Strings is pretty limited. What I need is something that uses phrases to realistically play rhythm parts. Any suggestions?


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## Dirk Ehlert (Jun 15, 2015)

I don't think that AS is limited, given what you're looking for it's currently the best on the market regarding multi-use simple rhythm beds. Some phrases are recognizable indeed but most of the stuff is just working great underneath a composition. Afaik there is no other library with this concept as well executed as NI AS.


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## DHousden (Jun 15, 2015)

LASS lite gives you access to their Auto Rhythm Tool, which gives more realistic results than Action Strings. However it only includes ensemble and section patches, you'd need to purchase the full version to access to divisi patches.


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## EwigWanderer (Jun 15, 2015)

DHousden @ 15th June 2015 said:


> LASS lite gives you access to their Auto Rhythm Tool, which gives more realistic results than Action Strings. However it only includes ensemble and section patches, you'd need to purchase the full version to access to divisi patches.



I own LASS full version and I've never used their Auto Rhythm Tool because it really didn't sound convincing. Action Strings sounds much better.


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## DHousden (Jun 15, 2015)

EwigWanderer @ Mon Jun 15 said:


> DHousden @ 15th June 2015 said:
> 
> 
> > LASS lite gives you access to their Auto Rhythm Tool, which gives more realistic results than Action Strings. However it only includes ensemble and section patches, you'd need to purchase the full version to access to divisi patches.
> ...



I own both and use both in different places. Typically Action Strings for sketching and LASS for final mix. It's way more customisable and while I enjoy having a recorded performance in Action Strings, you have far more control over your sound in LASS. Both have their uses, I guess as with everything, it comes down to personal taste. Considering it's also a full string library with all the main articulations included minus sordino, I think you could do far worse than LASS as an alternative to Action Strings.


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## sabin333 (Jun 15, 2015)

Just found Sonokinetic. Has anyone tried that? It uses phrases (which I believe NI Action Strings uses behind the scenes). I would love to see a comparison.


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## catsass (Jun 15, 2015)

Please prepare yourself for the inevitable debate over the compositional worthiness vs the dishonorable use of phrase-based string, etc. libraries. o[])


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## EwigWanderer (Jun 15, 2015)

catsass @ 15th June 2015 said:


> Please prepare yourself for the inevitable debate over the worthiness vs the dishonorable use of phrase based string, etc. libraries.



I own Minimal, Grosso and Capriccio from Sonokinetic and they are far superior compared to anything else when speaking about "phrases". These kind of libraries are TOOLS! They won't help you to write the next masterpiece and getting a job from the next Nolan movie, but they do help in many things. These libraries aren't a thread to loose jobs. Using only phrases wont work, but they help to get that extra realism to your music.

One thing what I have done is using some of the phrases as a starting point and then taking that midifile and used it for example with Berlin Strings and Berlin Woodwinds. 

Deadlines can sometimes be tough but Sonokinetic libraries are better choise to have than a stomach ulcer...


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## sabin333 (Jun 15, 2015)

EwigWanderer @ Mon Jun 15 said:


> I own Minimal, Grosso and Capriccio from Sonokinetic and they are far superior compared to anything else when speaking about "phrases". These kind of libraries are TOOLS! They won't help you to write the next masterpiece and getting a job from the next Nolan movie, but they do help in many things. These libraries aren't a thread to loose jobs. Using only phrases wont work, but they help to get that extra realism to your music.
> 
> One thing what I have done is using some of the phrases as a starting point and then taking that midifile and used it for example with Berlin Strings and Berlin Woodwinds.
> 
> Deadlines can sometimes be tough but Sonokinetic libraries are better choise to have than a stomach ulcer...



Rami, do you feel like Capriccio and Minimal are configurable enough? For instance if Sonokinetic has a phrase with a simple repeating ostinato line (like, cccccccccccccccc) could you make it play ccccagfgccccagfg?

I ask this because I noticed in Daniel James' demo video that NI Action Strings can do this: https://youtu.be/a4LoB5ieUxY?t=8m25s Actually, this video shows it better: https://youtu.be/1t4N138GipE?t=4m13s


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## mk282 (Jun 15, 2015)

Yes, you can do that, IIRC.


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## Sonokinetic BV (Jun 15, 2015)

Hi Sabin333,

We have a unique feature called harmonic shift that allows very rapid chord changes. Here it is on Grosso



The best thing to do is watch our videos as the instruments are very feature rich and watching them in action is the best idea


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## EwigWanderer (Jun 15, 2015)

Yes the videos are good place to start. Those things that for example in Grosso has would take so long time to play in your self. In a perfect world there would be that time available, but someone like me music isn't my main job and source of income I don't have that time. Maybe some day.. :roll: 

I'm now working on a cue for a friend and I'm using Grosso and some Capriccio to add movement to this cue. Still I'm writing my own themes for it.

Now I'll go and see what Tutti Vox sounds like...


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## kurtvanzo (Jun 16, 2015)

I've looked at sonokenetics and others, but phrase libraries have two issues- trying to fit your music into what is available rather than writing what's in your head, and trying to slog through all the patches to attempt to find something close. When I'm on a tight time schedule it's usually easier and quicker for me to play a performance patch than it is to search through a long list of phrases or loops. Searching and searching.... :roll: more editing music than playing music.

I have Action Strings and find them more usable than most phrase libraries (Daniel James video shows this), but there are only so many phrases there and over time I've used them less and less- I prefer to perform these with HS patches or CS2 than to "fit" these into a piece.


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## gsilbers (Jun 16, 2015)

any good spicc multi sample string and nora polyphonic phrase plugin. 

https://www.squaredheads.com/programa.php


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## The Darris (Jun 16, 2015)

Yeah, if you are looking for String phrases and patterns then Sonokinetic's Grosso, Capriccio, and Minimal are the first libraries I would go to for that. Though I am biased.


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## kurtvanzo (Jun 16, 2015)

gsilbers @ Tue Jun 16 said:


> any good spicc multi sample string and nora polyphonic phrase plugin.
> 
> https://www.squaredheads.com/programa.php



Thanks G! Had to find a video walkthrough on YouTube (the website videos are odd) , but I like what you can do. 

http://youtu.be/JjtfSjFBaTI

I've done a similar thing with Cathulu ($39), and like it a lot for ARPs and quick string runs. Also seems simpler to operate but both seems very useful.

https://www.xferrecords.com/products/cthulhu

They even have a great walkthrough at the bottom of the page


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## sabin333 (Jun 18, 2015)

Those midi arpeggiators seem pretty cool. But what I really love about Action Strings for instance is that they've recorded the "between the staccato hits" sound. Only a phrase library like Action Strings or Sonokinetics stuff can do that.

So I guess the argument now is, which library are people finding more useful Action Strings or Sonokinetics's Capriccio/Minimal?


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## lucky909091 (Jun 18, 2015)

sabin333 @ Mon 15 Jun said:


> EwigWanderer @ Mon Jun 15 said:
> 
> 
> > I own Minimal, Grosso and Capriccio from Sonokinetic and they are far superior compared to anything else when speaking about "phrases". These kind of libraries are TOOLS! They won't help you to write the next masterpiece and getting a job from the next Nolan movie, but they do help in many things. These libraries aren't a thread to loose jobs. Using only phrases wont work, but they help to get that extra realism to your music.
> ...




I own Grosso and Cappricio, too. 
Where did you find the MIDI-files from Sonokinetic?


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## mk282 (Jun 18, 2015)

Cappricio has an option to drag and drop MIDI file of the selected phrase to your host. You need to click on the note view button (three horizontal lines), and then you'll see "Drag MIDI" area.


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## kurtvanzo (Jun 19, 2015)

sabin333 @ Thu Jun 18 said:


> Those midi arpeggiators seem pretty cool. But what I really love about Action Strings for instance is that they've recorded the "between the staccato hits" sound. Only a phrase library like Action Strings or Sonokinetics stuff can do that.
> 
> So I guess the argument now is, which library are people finding more useful Action Strings or Sonokinetics's Capriccio/Minimal?



I know what you mean about the bridge between the notes, it should also be noted that Emotive Strings also has some faster runs...

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/pr ... e-strings/

And the playable runs in in Berlin Strings seems like another good option. Combined with capsule it sounds like a homerun if you have the $$$...

http://www.orchestraltools.com/librarie ... trings.php


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## Guido Negraszus (Jun 19, 2015)

I have all: Action Strings, Minimal, Grosso and Capriccio. 

Honestly, if you like Action Strings you WILL love everything Sonokinetic does. They simply "own" the field of Orchestral phrases. They are the best! It's also a much better value because you will not just get strings but brass, woodwinds and percussion. There are some very beautiful and usable brass & woodwind phrases in all of them. The "drag midi file to host" is a brilliant feature (I use it quite often so I can layer it with my other libraries) and I believe Sonokinetic is working on updates for Minimal and Grosso which will offer that feature too.


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## gpax (Jun 20, 2015)

It’s hard for me to compare Action strings to Capriccio (or other Sonokenetic libraries), even where the desired result might be similar from the standpoint of the user manipulating each. 

For me, Capriccio (and Minimal, to some extent) provide more malleable options for constantly experimenting and coming up with unique phrase combinations (especially when also using the Harmonic Shift functionality of Capriccio). Moreover, the integrity of the sections is apparent in the layering of Hi, Mid and Low throughout, including the ability to pan, control volumes of each, and especially offset timing of phrases in Capriccio. It’s a gift that keeps on giving, in my opinion, especially in combination with other libraries. 

My one main critique of SK’s approach is that they consider alternates to chording all major/minor triads from the keyboard: I have scripted this into a Lemur template to change chords with one finger, and hence am doing real-time controls of its other parameters without being tethered to the keyboard. 

Action Strings, while a compelling collection of energetic phrase that are cleverly scripted, has never actually sounded appealing to me: The phrases are great, but a lot of the vibrance and resonance is processed away, even when using EQ (both the onboard FX and my own). The intent there is fairly clear, which is to provide a more intense, concentrated string section performing phrases to be layered in a busy mix. 

That being said, I have tried to layer Action Strings in for texture, or slice and dice a bit more meticulously when triggering (as D. James did in his walkthrough), but then start fighting with the limitations of the recorded sound and placement choices of the ensemble. I’ve actually ended up replicating some of the phrases with other libraries and options, though to be fair, have done this at times with some of Sonokenetic’s phrase libraries as well (that MIDI option in Capriccio is an added bonus, btw). 

All my opinion, of course. 

Greg


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## hirnkatheter (Jul 3, 2015)

gpax said:


> My one main critique of SK’s approach is that they consider alternates to chording all major/minor triads from the keyboard: I have scripted this into a Lemur template to change chords with one finger, and hence am doing real-time controls of its other parameters without being tethered to the keyboard.
> 
> Greg



That's what I am looking for (I also submitted this as an idea to Sonokinetic). NI Strummed Acoustic has this feature, so you don't have to play chords (I am a lousy keyboard player). Do you know a solution like this that works in Reaper?


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## gpax (Jul 6, 2015)

hirnkatheter said:


> That's what I am looking for (I also submitted this as an idea to Sonokinetic). NI Strummed Acoustic has this feature, so you don't have to play chords (I am a lousy keyboard player). Do you know a solution like this that works in Reaper?


The first thing that comes to mind (and imagining how I would do this if was not a keyboardist) would be to find or create a MIDI snippet of each triad so you could drop that into your sequencer. If you download something like this, you may have to select the notes and move them to the right octave. It's always good to become familiar with the basic major/minor triads, of course, as it will make workflow even more productive for you : )


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## germancomponist (Jul 6, 2015)

Maybe Magix Music maker has a library for this?


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## hirnkatheter (Jul 6, 2015)

germancomponist said:


> Maybe Magix Music maker has a library for this?


Very funny. Thank you.


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## Ben Osterhouse (Sep 30, 2019)

I know this discussion was a pretty long time ago, but if anyone is still looking for instruments similar to NI's Action Strings, You might look into this instrument I just released, called https://www.kontakthub.com/product/pattern-strings-kontakt/ (Pattern Strings). 

The interface takes a completely different approach from the Ostinato Strings, and Action Strings. You can see more about how it works in the walkthrough video. 

The sound quality is also different --the instrument is recorded with solo instruments, and is ideal for creating a chamber strings sound, as opposed to the larger orchestral sound of the other two libraries.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 30, 2019)

I guess im late to the thread, but was going to say - sonokenetic is the phrase pioneer, which is depressing. I went on a buying spree with sonokenetic after having a few products I really liked and then slowly realized they were full steam in phrased based development. 

which is just not for me, and honestly hurts my brain to think about working that way - so props to those who think that way.


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## ScoreFace (Oct 1, 2019)

Yes, Libs like Sonokinetic or Action Strings are way too limited, I agree there. I sometimes like to make my life easier, especially when time is short - but I really need to have the possibility to kind of customize these phrases. This is not possible with the Sonokinetic phrases even if they sound great. 

Action Strings is more flexible as I can jump from one phrase to another whenever I want via keyswitch. But to be honest, I almost only use the basic rhythms, as I can really play my own stuff and get only a rhythmic live performance. 

In general, I like the idea to get live performances into my music, I only wish it was possible to have more creative influence on these performances.


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## markleake (Oct 1, 2019)

Ben Osterhouse said:


> I know this discussion was a pretty long time ago, but if anyone is still looking for instruments similar to NI's Action Strings, You might look into this instrument I just released, called https://www.kontakthub.com/product/pattern-strings-kontakt/ (Pattern Strings).
> 
> The interface takes a completely different approach from the Ostinato Strings, and Action Strings. You can see more about how it works in the walkthrough video.
> 
> The sound quality is also different --the instrument is recorded with solo instruments, and is ideal for creating a chamber strings sound, as opposed to the larger orchestral sound of the other two libraries.


Wow Ben, this looks really well done. I'll have to listen again to the walkthrough tomorrow on something better than a tablet. It seems like a fantastic way of creating an instrument like this, and really does look useful.


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## markleake (Oct 1, 2019)

@Ben Osterhouse Plus you should also put this as a new post in the Commercial Announcements section to get some more interest. (Tier 2, unless you pay for adds?).


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## Ben Osterhouse (Oct 1, 2019)

Thanks! I'll look into the commercial announcements section.


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## BezO (Oct 1, 2019)

I've gotten limited use from Action Strings. SonoKinetic looks interesting. I'm going to look into this, especially since it has MIDI drag out. Being able to manipulate phrases works best for me.

Session Strings Pro 1 & 2 are additional options, but they're smaller groups than others mentioned.


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## ScoreFace (Oct 2, 2019)

I really like the lovely chamber sound of Pattern Strings, thanks for bringing this up here, Ben! This might be something for me.


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## Ben Osterhouse (Oct 2, 2019)

No problem, glad to hear it!


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