# New Abbey Road expansion due Aug 31



## dcoscina (Aug 27, 2021)

From the YT teaser it looks like horns…hopefully it is. Legato 6 horns would be truly spectacular


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 27, 2021)

It’s horns + strings.


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## Peter Satera (Aug 28, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It’s horns + strings.


Yeah, Funnily enough I was thinking about this yesterday, and it was visible in the preview, called "Soaring Strings and Brass'.


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## dcoscina (Aug 28, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It’s horns + strings.


That’s cool.


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 28, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It’s horns + strings.


Better then wonderless flutes lol 😂


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 28, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Better then wonderless flutes lol 😂


To each their own but the mordents in Wondrous Flutes sound incredible.


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## Paul Jelfs (Aug 28, 2021)

Actually I heard it Phenomenal Piccolos - 16va with Flutes. Next is Delicious Dog Whistles - 24va with Flutes.


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 28, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> To each their own but the mordents in Wondrous Flutes sound incredible.


The mordants are pretty handy and sound good i have to ageee .


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## muziksculp (Aug 28, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It’s horns + strings.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 28, 2021)

muziksculp said:


>


I know. That JW guy used this orchestration for the first part of that Leia's Theme tune. What a loser!


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## dcoscina (Aug 28, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I know. That JW guy used this orchestration for the first part of that Leia's Theme tune. What a loser!


I created a studio one combination sound using bbc horns a4 legato with bbc violins leg and cello leg. Sounds pretty damned fine to me. Now imagine that in Abbey Road. For $49. Hell’s yeah


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 28, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I created a studio one combination sound using bbc horns a4 legato with bbc violins leg and cello leg. Sounds pretty damned fine to me. Now imagine that I’m Abbey Road. For $49. Hell’s yeah


Nobody says that a new library has to replace your current way of doing things. But there's a difference between striping (and then trying to mix two sections together) vs. recording them in the same room at the same time.


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## CT (Aug 28, 2021)

muziksculp said:


>


I have personally seen to it that every AR Selections release is designed expressly to vex you. Enjoy.


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## Bman70 (Aug 28, 2021)

Interesting I might save my $100 for this. I wonder how the two instruments are implemented... some strange baked-in combination, or separate legato high horns and high strings? Guy Michelmore seemed a little unimpressed with the Low Strings' octaves in his video, he said it ruled out doing things normally with chords.


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## dcoscina (Aug 28, 2021)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Nobody says that a new library has to replace your current way of doing things. But there's a difference between striping (and then trying to mix two sections together) vs. recording them in the same room at the same time.


Oh for sure. I’m really looking forward to the latest Abbey Road addition. I was just noting that this combination is oft used and for good reason. It sounds great


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## jbuhler (Aug 28, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> Interesting I might save my $100 for this. I wonder how the two instruments are implemented... some strange baked-in combination, or separate legato high horns and high strings? Guy Michelmore seemed a little unimpressed with the Low Strings' octaves in his video, he said it ruled out doing things normally with chords.


It’s not designed for that use. It’s designed to be the bass of the orchestra and for brooding solos without much if any accompaniment. Cello and basses in octaves is a very normal orchestration. Historically it’s the dominant norm and it continues to be very common.


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## prodigalson (Aug 28, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> Interesting I might save my $100 for this. I wonder how the two instruments are implemented... some strange baked-in combination, or separate legato high horns and high strings? Guy Michelmore seemed a little unimpressed with the Low Strings' octaves in his video, he said it ruled out doing things normally with chords.


Don’t buy cello and basses recorded in 8ves if you don’t want cellos and basses recorded in 8ves


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## Bman70 (Aug 28, 2021)

prodigalson said:


> Don’t buy cello and basses recorded in 8ves if you don’t want cellos and basses recorded in 8ves


I want octaves and non-octaves. I can layer the octaves on my own Lol.


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## Bman70 (Aug 28, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> It’s not designed for that use. It’s designed to be the bass of the orchestra and for brooding solos without much if any accompaniment. Cello and basses in octaves is a very normal orchestration. Historically it’s the dominant norm and it continues to be very common.


They do sound amazing, especially like the shorts. Probably will buy them.


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## jbuhler (Aug 28, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> I want octaves and non-octaves. I can layer the octaves on my own Lol.


Then you’ll be able to use the cellos and basses in the modular orchestra to do that! 

Personally I find the recorded octaves generally sound better, almost certainly because you can hear that the players are listening to each other.


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## jbuhler (Aug 28, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> They do sound amazing, especially like the shorts. Probably will buy them.


They sound great. The legato is excellent, and has a great dynamic range. But the shorts could be more varied. Pizz in octaves would have been convenient.


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## muziksculp (Aug 28, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I created a studio one combination sound using bbc horns a4 legato with bbc violins leg and cello leg. Sounds pretty damned fine to me. Now imagine that in Abbey Road. For $49. Hell’s yeah


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## muziksculp (Aug 28, 2021)

Mike T said:


> I have personally seen to it that every AR Selections release is designed expressly to vex you. Enjoy.


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 29, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> Interesting I might save my $100 for this. I wonder how the two instruments are implemented... some strange baked-in combination, or separate legato high horns and high strings? Guy Michelmore seemed a little unimpressed with the Low Strings' octaves in his video, he said it ruled out doing things normally with chords.


i dunno , legendary low strings is one of my favorite patches in ANY virtual instrument.It does what it does SO well.


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## prodigalson (Aug 29, 2021)

Mike T said:


> I have personally seen to it that every AR Selections release is designed expressly to vex you. Enjoy.


At this point, the only release by anyone that WOULDNT vex muziksculp would be a full string library with individual sections, 5 dyn layers, best in class legato etc etc.

And then when released they’d already be complaining about the release delay on the next one.


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## idematoa (Aug 29, 2021)




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## muziksculp (Aug 29, 2021)

Looks like it's a Brass expansion, without any Strings. Which makes more sense.


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## dcoscina (Aug 29, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Looks like it's a Brass expansion, without any Strings. Which makes more sense.


I truly hope it is.


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## South Thames (Aug 29, 2021)

They key question is what adjective will precede the instruments in the title. 

We've had:

> Wondrous Flutes
> Legendary Low Strings
> Sparkling Woodwinds

If it's horns and strings that's tricky. For brevity, perhaps it'll be 'Horny Strings'.


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## dcoscina (Aug 29, 2021)

Heroic Horns

or maybe Horner’s Harrowing Heroic Horns


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## Jotto (Aug 29, 2021)

Sparkling Woodwinds is imo useless low strings ok. Hope this is better. 50€ is to much


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## Baronvonheadless (Aug 29, 2021)

I mean it was like "Soaring Strings and Brass" before they deleted the teaser that showed the name. 

So I replied to their instagram thing with the exact title hahaha


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## jbuhler (Aug 29, 2021)

Jotto said:


> Sparkling Woodwinds is imo useless low strings ok. Hope this is better. 50€ is to much


Yeah, I was quite disappointed in Sparkling Woodwinds, too. I've found a few uses for it, but generally, the basic woodwinds patch in AROOF and the legato patch in Albion One are both more useful.


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## Michel Simons (Aug 29, 2021)

idematoa said:


>



Looks like an old coffee machine to me.


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## Toecutter (Aug 30, 2021)

My money is on soaring strings and brass, hope SF didn't change plans


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## muziksculp (Aug 30, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> My money is on soaring strings and brass, hope SF didn't change plans



Do you mean brass & string layered together, or Soaring Strings, and Brass as separate expansions ?


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## Toecutter (Aug 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Do you mean brass & string layered together, or Soaring Strings, and Brass as separate expansions ?


"Soaring Brass & Strings" I don't think they recorded individual sections for the "soaring" Selections


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## muziksculp (Aug 30, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> "Soaring Brass & Strings" I don't think they recorded individual sections for the "soaring" Selections


OK, Thanks, but not what I was hoping for.


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## Toecutter (Aug 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> OK, Thanks, but not what I was hoping for.


This is pure speculation and wishful thinking from my part ofc, the only thing we know for sure is that tomorrow's announcement will have something to do with brass. You wanted something else?


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## muziksculp (Aug 30, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> This is pure speculation and wishful thinking from my part ofc, the only thing we know for sure is that tomorrow's announcement will have something to do with brass. You wanted something else?


We will know what it is tomorrow, the YT image shows Brass icon, no strings, I wouldn't mind a brass expansion, but don't care for a brass+Strings layered expansion.


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## styledelk (Aug 30, 2021)

I'd rather call it "playing together as one" rather than "layered." We can layer with the individual sections. We can't record them playing together as one, which, if that's what this is, is the unique value proposition.


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## Toecutter (Aug 30, 2021)

styledelk said:


> I'd rather call it "playing together as one" rather than "layered." We can layer with the individual sections. We can't record them playing together as one, which, if that's what this is, is the unique value proposition.


Yep, totally different sound and color, very useful to have these sections recorded together. I wouldn't mind having the individual sections too but that's what the modular series will be good for (considering SF will follow the same mold of the Symphonic series, soloists+ens patches)


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## styledelk (Aug 30, 2021)

The new image might cinch it here.


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## jbuhler (Aug 30, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Yep, totally different sound and color, very useful to have these sections recorded together. I wouldn't mind having the individual sections too but that's what the modular series will be good for (considering SF will follow the same mold of the Symphonic series, soloists+ens patches)


I wouldn't call it "totally different," but it's often enough to be worth the trouble of loading the combined patch.

I've been running on the presumption that the new AR package is running on the model of Albion One and BML. So when AROOF is built out with all its expansions, it will look a lot like the orchestral part of Albion One, and AR modular will look like SSO, with soloists and sections. What's not clear is whether they will follow SSO in having a2 for the section across the board for woodwinds and brass, or follow BBCSO and mostly have a3.


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## Ruffian Price (Aug 30, 2021)

At this point I'm fine with Spitfire making an Abbey Road Symphobia 2 and selling the legato ensemble patches individually, but a whole premiere event for each seems a little bit too much


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## styledelk (Aug 30, 2021)

"Premiere event"... It's a youtube video.


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## jbuhler (Aug 30, 2021)

Ruffian Price said:


> At this point I'm fine with Spitfire making an Abbey Road Symphobia 2 and selling the legato ensemble patches individually, but a whole premiere event for each seems a little bit too much


At the moment these kind of events seems to be the best way to break through the din and grab attention. I suspect the effectiveness is wearing off, though, so I imagine we'll be seeing new approaches tried out soon.


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## dcoscina (Aug 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> We will know what it is tomorrow, the YT image shows Brass icon, no strings, I wouldn't mind a brass expansion, but don't care for a brass+Strings layered expansion.


Yeah I'm hoping for just 6 French horns.. staccato, longs, legato, the usual suspects.


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## Soundbed (Aug 30, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> I've been running on the presumption that the new AR package is running on the model of Albion One and BML


yeah, fwiw it helped me to think about it like the BHTK ... "Pre-orchestrated"


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## Bman70 (Aug 30, 2021)

styledelk said:


> The new image might cinch it here.



The strings in that picture do not soar. Those are plodding strings!


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## mybadmemory (Aug 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> We will know what it is tomorrow, the YT image shows Brass icon, no strings, I wouldn't mind a brass expansion, but don't care for a brass+Strings layered expansion.


The YT thumbnail does show a horn and a cello though. The cello is behind the text.


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## Bman70 (Aug 30, 2021)

It seems there are other players somewhere in the back, you can just see their legs. So maybe more than cellos.


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## styledelk (Aug 30, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> It seems there are other players somewhere in the back, you can just see their legs. So maybe more than cellos.


Them's trombones and maybe lower.


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## jbuhler (Aug 30, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> yeah, fwiw it helped me to think about it like the BHTK ... "Pre-orchestrated"


The first two expansions leaned more toward Albion One conception than BHTK, and wondrous flutes leaned more into BHTK territory. If the new one is indeed brass and strings, that will definitely be in BHTK territory.


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## Pixelpoet1985 (Aug 30, 2021)

I think this is going to be horn + cello, because this is a very suitable and common combination (in unison). Who knows. Not again low strings ...


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## styledelk (Aug 30, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> The first two expansions leaned more toward Albion One conception than BHTK, and wondrous flutes leaned more into BHTK territory. If the new one is indeed brass and strings, that will definitely be in BHTK territory.


I hope they go for those glorious pre-recorded horn chords. Maybe with cellos in the bass.


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## jbuhler (Aug 30, 2021)

styledelk said:


> I hope they go for those glorious pre-recorded horn chords. Maybe with cellos in the bass.


The most recent pictures show a tuba, some trombones (4?), and maybe a cimbasso .


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## FireGS (Aug 30, 2021)

How does anyone think that's a horn?

Tuba.


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## jbuhler (Aug 30, 2021)

FireGS said:


> How does anyone think that's a horn?
> 
> Tuba.


Didn't some of the earlier pictures show horns? Or maybe I made that up. But, yes, this picture and the other one in the tweet make me think low brass and low strings, whereas until I saw it, I was thinking it would be cellos and horns.


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## FireGS (Aug 30, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Didn't some of the earlier pictures show horns? Or maybe I made that up. But, yes, this picture and the other one in the tweet make me think low brass and low strings, whereas until I saw it, I was thinking it would be cellos and horns.







This is definitely a horn.

So at least horn(s), tuba(s?), and Celli. That we know.


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## jbuhler (Aug 30, 2021)

FireGS said:


> This is definitely a horn.
> 
> So at least horn(s), tuba(s?), and Celli. That we know.


Trombones and maybe a cimbasso, too, if that second picture in the tweet is accurate.

In any case, the tweet definitely makes me think low brass and low strings, whereas up until that picture I'd been thinking it would be horns and cello legato.


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## FireGS (Aug 30, 2021)

The more instruments in the recording (assuming tutti or octaves), the less I'm personally interested.


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## muziksculp (Aug 30, 2021)

So.. Low Brass with Celli ?


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## Bman70 (Aug 30, 2021)

"Further Low Legends"


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## jbuhler (Aug 30, 2021)

FireGS said:


> The more instruments in the recording (assuming tutti or octaves), the less I'm personally interested.


It depends on what functionality they give the tutti. But, yes, the functionality needs to increase as the number of instruments in the tutti increase. Shorts and longs don't really suffice, and legato becomes less helpful. But things like tempo synched swells and such for the tutti could be very useful. They are common, but a pain to program and often don't yield especially credible results with programmed separate parts. 



Bman70 said:


> "Further Low Legends"


"Legendary Lows, Power Edition"


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## muziksculp (Aug 30, 2021)

Where are the high-legends ?


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## FireGS (Aug 30, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> But things like tempo synched swells and such for the tutti could be very useful. They are common, but a pain to program and often don't yield especially credible results with programmed separate parts.


That's only if/when the instrument has fewer dynamic levels and audible phasing between the layers. I have a feeling there won't be an incredible amount of detail in this offering (as past releases), so yeah, maybe. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## FireGS (Aug 30, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Where are the high-legends ?


Found 'em!


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## jbuhler (Aug 30, 2021)

FireGS said:


> That's only if/when the instrument has fewer dynamic levels and audible phasing between the layers. I have a feeling there won't be an incredible amount of detail in this offering (as past releases), so yeah, maybe. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I think it's as much because the players can't be listening to each other when you program separate parts. Players in the same room naturally balance with each other, and of course the timing of the whole gesture is coordinated when they are executing it together as an ensemble. It's just hard to get that level of coordination with separate parts.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 30, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> Yeah I'm hoping for just 6 French horns.. staccato, longs, legato, the usual suspects.


Absolutely not, that will be saved for the modular orchestra. (Sadly.)


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## Soundbed (Aug 30, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> The YT thumbnail does show a horn and a cello though. The cello is behind the text.


whoa i totally missed that!

okay so definitely horns, cellos and ... tuba pictured. it's got to be a tuba or someone's hands are really small. 

maybe bones (they are in the picture playing but might almost cropped out so it's unclear) and maybe euphonium (behind the cellists)? I haven't seen that cimbasso you mentioned @jbuhler


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## jbuhler (Aug 30, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> whoa i totally missed that!
> 
> okay so definitely horns, cellos and ... tuba pictured. it's got to be a tuba or someone's hands are really small.
> 
> maybe bones (they are in the picture playing but might almost cropped out so it's unclear) and maybe euphonium (behind the cellists)? I haven't seen that cimbasso you mentioned @jbuhler


I think what you see as a euphonium I'm seeing as a potential cimbasso. I'm only seeing a blurry valve assemblage but I'm not seeing the horn itself at all; the positioning seems to me to be more in line with how cimbasso valves sit, and they are positioned next to the trombones. But it's all very vague, and camera angles can play tricks, so it might be consistent with a euphonium. (Cimbassi are, I think, more common in film scoring today than are euphoniums.)


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## holywilly (Aug 30, 2021)

*BASSO CONTINUO the Abbey Road edition**  *​


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## Gene Pool (Aug 30, 2021)

FireGS said:


> This is definitely a horn.


Not a horn.

Not a lot of detail in the pic, but from what little context there is it looks like a Besson 4-valve compensating euphonium in modest need of a lacquer job.


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## dcoscina (Aug 30, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Absolutely not, that will be saved for the modular orchestra. (Sadly.)


I better start saving now.


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## Soundbed (Aug 30, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> Not a horn.
> 
> Not a lot of detail in the pic, but from what little context there is it looks like a Besson 4-valve compensating euphonium in modest need of a lacquer job.


Agree that one wasn’t a horn.

(Specifically; agree the valves are different from a horn.)

(Horn illustration was in the upper right of the YouTube thumbnail.)

Feeling nerdy. 🤓


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## jamie8 (Aug 30, 2021)

Its a expresso machine , the sound of caffeine at the edge of silence,… oh crap wait…. Wrong thread🤪😎


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## Gene Pool (Aug 30, 2021)

FireGS said:


> Found 'em!



I like how Willie Nelson makes the rest of 'em look like a bunch of lightweights.


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## Bman70 (Aug 30, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> I like how Willie Nelson makes the rest of 'em look like a bunch of lightweights.


But they have the smoke inside them


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## NoamL (Aug 30, 2021)

If this is just horns + VC/VA I'll buy it.

If the brass go across the keyboard and crossfade with lower brass or trumpets on the high end, that's a MUCH harder sell for me. I like to orchestrate the brass sections separately, and if I was orchestrating violins with trumpets together on a legato melody I'd tend to do 1 or 2 octaves of vlns and trumpets on the low octave or even 8vb (picked that up from a few JW and JP scores).

The new AR1 ecosystem is exciting but it's coming out painfully slow and there's going to be volumes I'm not interested in at all like the solo strings in Other Abbey Road.


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## Soundbed (Aug 30, 2021)

NoamL said:


> If this is just horns + VC/VA I'll buy it.
> 
> If the brass go across the keyboard and crossfade with lower brass or trumpets on the high end, that's a MUCH harder sell for me. I like to orchestrate the brass sections separately, and if I was orchestrating violins with trumpets together on a legato melody I'd tend to do 1 or 2 octaves of vlns and trumpets on the low octave or even 8vb (picked that up from a few JW and JP scores).
> 
> The new AR1 ecosystem is exciting but it's coming out painfully slow and there's going to be volumes I'm not interested in at all like the solo strings quintet recorded in AR2.


I’m getting a low brass + cellos vibe. (No violas or trumpets.)
The question I’m asking is:
What soundtracks have a lot of cello + low brass orchestration pairings (groupings)?
Shorts? Legato? Effects? Marcato?
What would Spitfire consider ‘classic’ and useful?
And the word Grand might have something to do with it. Grandiose?


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## Gene Pool (Aug 30, 2021)

So far my calculations come to...

–37 mid- and low brass, both conical and cylindrical
–Cello quartet
–Blazed up Euphorium quartet: Tommy Chong, Snoop Dog, posthumous Bob Marley, and almost posthumous Willie Nelson.

...all combined in unisons, octaves, and double octaves.

As Grand as it gets. It's got low _and_ high covered, and fills an important void in sampled instrument design for film work.


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## Soundbed (Aug 30, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> So far my calculations come to...
> 
> –37 mid- and low brass, both conical and cylindrical
> –Cello quartet
> ...


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## chapbot (Aug 30, 2021)

Please, no more of these weird combo patches *cries*


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## Soundbed (Aug 30, 2021)

chapbot said:


> Please, no more of these weird combo patches *cries*


Wrong thread, friend. Wrooong thread.


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## Composer 2021 (Aug 30, 2021)

If they do a good enough job with these expansions, I might be happy with ARO instead of a modular orchestra. Who knows?


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## Soundbed (Aug 30, 2021)

Composer 2021 said:


> If they do a good enough job with these expansions, I might be happy with ARO instead of a modular orchestra. Who knows?


Sacrilege.

Kidding.

It’s clearly got a market.

So far I haven’t gotten any of the expansions.


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## Futchibon (Aug 30, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> So far I haven’t gotten any of the expansions.


Legendary Low Strings is really good!



Composer 2021 said:


> If they do a good enough job with these expansions, I might be happy with ARO instead of a modular orchestra. Who knows?


I think I might be, too. Other than the cost of the Modular version, it's unlikely to be as expressive as Infinite Brass/Woodwinds, so I'd rather try and get the EQ/IR with them and AROOF to gel rather than spend a lot more. I have high hopes the high strings will be as playable as the low ones!


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 30, 2021)

When it’s written “Soaring Strings and Brass”, I would assume it having separate patches for Strings & Brass. Although I don’t have any of their expansions, including the Parent library, I am literally excited about this coz it doesn’t sound like another low strings thing.


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## Ruffian Price (Aug 31, 2021)

There's a French Horn + Celli patch in Inspire 2 (I believe it's mixed together from Berlin sources though, not recorded) that's really good for melodic lines, if this is the same thing it'll probably also be great at carrying leads


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## Futchibon (Aug 31, 2021)

Ruffian Price said:


> There's a French Horn + Celli patch in Inspire 2 (I believe it's mixed together from Berlin sources though, not recorded) that's really good for melodic lines, if this is the same thing it'll probably also be great at carrying leads


Yeah that would be great, only a few hours until we find out!


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## NeonMediaKJT (Aug 31, 2021)

Would like a low brass patch in abbey road


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## dcoscina (Aug 31, 2021)

I wonder if it's Blow-your-brains-out-brass (and strings). Oh wait, that's JXL brass.


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## Technostica (Aug 31, 2021)

I'm hoping for a library of George Martin farting, in octaves.


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## muziksculp (Aug 31, 2021)

Soon we will know what it is.


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## dcoscina (Aug 31, 2021)

Technostica said:


> I'm hoping for a library of George Martin farting, in octaves.


I'd buy that for a dollar... mwahahahaha.


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## yiph2 (Aug 31, 2021)

Look at their Soundcloud... GRAND BRASS


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## Bman70 (Aug 31, 2021)

I'm glad if it's just brass, that means the strings modules won't be polluted with brass


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## Toecutter (Aug 31, 2021)

Surprised at how many people on youtube prefer the Spitfire plugin over Kontakt!! There's a discussion going on


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## jbuhler (Aug 31, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> I'm glad if it's just brass, that means the strings modules won't be polluted with brass


Still wondering about the image of the cellos... We'll know soon enough.


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## Toecutter (Aug 31, 2021)




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## Toecutter (Aug 31, 2021)

Paul's very excited! Take my money


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## yiph2 (Aug 31, 2021)

Horns with Tuba and Horns with Celli


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## Bman70 (Aug 31, 2021)

Horns and tuba in octaves


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## Bman70 (Aug 31, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Still wondering about the image of the cellos... We'll know soon enough.


No sign of cellos anymore, seems to have been a misunderstanding or deliberate marketing subterfuge: 








Spitfire Audio — Abbey Road One: Grand Brass






www.spitfireaudio.com


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## jbuhler (Aug 31, 2021)

Despite what Paul said, I'm convinced that the octave sustains will be all that useful for chords, due to the octave doubling and limited range.


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## yiph2 (Aug 31, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> No sign of cellos anymore, seems to have been a misunderstanding or deliberate marketing subterfuge:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is, it's the soaring articulations


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## Toecutter (Aug 31, 2021)

Toecutter said:


> Paul's very excited! Take my money


Okay funsies aside, it's hard to not get this for 49 bucks, sounds really good like other selections. Great addition to ARO


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## Bman70 (Aug 31, 2021)

yiph2 said:


> There is, it's the soaring articulations


Ah you're right, it's in the fine print. So "Soaring Strings and Brass" probably was correct, but the emphasis seems greatly on brass now.


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## dcoscina (Aug 31, 2021)

That tuba sounds lovely. Had to buy it. Downloading now.


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## NoamL (Aug 31, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> Horns and tuba in octaves


so as to not just give us the horns, because that must be saved for ARO. :\

On the other hand the Soaring Legato (*Horns+Cellos*) sounds fantastic.

There's also a lot of content here compared to the early Scoring Selects, it's just a matter of if it's useful for you. I'd mostly be using the Soaring Legato patch... I might give this one a miss for a while but there's no question that the mic setup & recording techniques being used here are such an incredibly positive signal for ARO.

All of the mics sound gorgeous and pristine, the mixes seem world class, and the dynamic layers of these samples are uncompromising. This would beat out SSB for "lovely pianissimo brass" if only they'd give us a more useful orchestration than this octave patch.


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## Frederick (Aug 31, 2021)

Already downloaded and installed it. A lot more content compared to the first two selections. It's like they have cut the soaring strings and brass in two and have added one half to grand brass. I'm certainly not complaining!


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## Soundbed (Aug 31, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> Ah you're right, it's in the fine print. So "Soaring Strings and Brass" probably was correct, but the emphasis seems greatly on brass now.


Haha I had the same in my clipboard to paste but got distracted. Oh well, I'll paste it anyway in case someone does a text search someday...

"Our majestic four-horn section is combined with an enchanting ensemble of ten cellos, presented in both Soaring Long and Soaring Legato patches for exclusive control. Composers from Gustav Holst to John Williams have used the idiomatic pairing of brass and strings for its characteristic mellow and rich timbre, which elegantly represents these instrument’s ‘cantabile’ or ‘singing’ ranges."


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## Evans (Aug 31, 2021)

Four "Selections" at this point? I'd love a "Buy 3 Get 1 Free" deal.

Actually, maybe after the next one. I don't have interest in Sparkling Woodwinds.


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## NoamL (Aug 31, 2021)

Evans said:


> Four "Selections" at this point? I'd love a "Buy 3 Get 1 Free" deal.
> 
> Actually, maybe after the next one. I don't have interest in Sparkling Woodwinds.


you do get one Select free if you pre-ordered AROOF, if I recall.


----------



## MaxOctane (Aug 31, 2021)

Evans said:


> Four "Selections" at this point? I'd love a "Buy 3 Get 1 Free" deal.
> 
> Actually, maybe after the next one. I don't have interest in Sparkling Woodwinds.


All the expansions sound lovely, and they won't *each* break the bank, but in total they're not cost effective. $200 for four patches with 3-8 articulations each.

I'm curious if these will be bundled on BF.


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## jbuhler (Aug 31, 2021)

Evans said:


> Four "Selections" at this point? I'd love a "Buy 3 Get 1 Free" deal.
> 
> Actually, maybe after the next one. I don't have interest in Sparkling Woodwinds.


Sparkling Woodwinds is rather a dud, imho, and I wish I'd skipped it.


----------



## Drundfunk (Aug 31, 2021)

Hope the modular ochestra isn't so far away. I just love how this sounds.


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## Manaberry (Aug 31, 2021)

Sounds kind of boring to me. (I'm definitely not the target.)
But I'm sure it will be a nice addition to people looking for ready-to-go patches at a competitive price.


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## Ricgus3 (Aug 31, 2021)

As a person who just bought Century Brass Bundle I don't think i need this for now. Will keep my eye on what happens with AROOF + expansion in future though. As a standalone it is not needed for me but together with all the other stuff in ARO, it is nice with thhe whole bundle! 

Maybe they will make a "bundle" package later


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## Justin L. Franks (Aug 31, 2021)

This is the first one I've been really excited about. It sounds great, and it seems you get a lot for your $49.


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## ThomasJ.Curran (Aug 31, 2021)

It’s interesting that they chose to have the horns doubled by a tuba down the octave. I can’t say that I’ve come across that specific orchestration before...


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## Bman70 (Aug 31, 2021)




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## Bman70 (Aug 31, 2021)

ThomasJ.Curran said:


> It’s interesting that they chose to have the horns doubled by a tuba down the octave. I can’t say that I’ve come across that specific orchestration before...


But John Williams....


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## SupremeFist (Aug 31, 2021)

ThomasJ.Curran said:


> It’s interesting that they chose to have the horns doubled by a tuba down the octave. I can’t say that I’ve come across that specific orchestration before...


A cynic would say it's a rather arbitrary way to deliberately bork the horns patch so we will still buy the pure horns of the modular orchestra. But I am not a cynic.


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## Mackieguy (Aug 31, 2021)

While it does sound fantastic, I feel like Spitfire is giving us a lot of icing but skimping on the cake. The fact that instrument-specific legatos are STILL missing (unless I’m wrong which would be GREAT!) means that I CAN’T USE THIS LIBRARY! Legatos are incredibly important for realism. The fact I have to use pre-orchestrated patches is ridiculous. Yes, there are times that these patches will absolutely shine but I don’t always double everything. The celli and horns may double here and there but certainly not for every note. Not even every note in a given measure. 

So PLEASE, Spitfire. Can we just get normal legatos like EVERY OTHER LIBRARY so that we can maybe use it on a regular basis?


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## José Herring (Aug 31, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> Interesting I might save my $100 for this. I wonder how the two instruments are implemented... some strange baked-in combination, or separate legato high horns and high strings? Guy Michelmore seemed a little unimpressed with the Low Strings' octaves in his video, he said it ruled out doing things normally with chords.


I love Guy and his videos but this really makes no sense. Low Strings is awesome and why would anybody really want to use a full section patch for doing chords? That's anything but normal. But Cello+Basses in Octaves is pretty standard and those players in that room sound fantastic on the low end.


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## Evans (Aug 31, 2021)

Mackieguy said:


> So PLEASE, Spitfire. Can we just get normal legatos like EVERY OTHER LIBRARY so that we can maybe use it on a regular basis?


They're going to. They're just doing these first. And if other people keep buying them, they'll keep doing it.


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## ThomasJ.Curran (Aug 31, 2021)

Mackieguy said:


> While it does sound fantastic, I feel like Spitfire is giving us a lot of icing but skimping on the cake. The fact that instrument-specific legatos are STILL missing (unless I’m wrong which would be GREAT!) means that I CAN’T USE THIS LIBRARY! Legatos are incredibly important for realism. The fact I have to use pre-orchestrated patches is ridiculous. Yes, there are times that these patches will absolutely shine but I don’t always double everything. The celli and horns may double here and there but certainly not for every note. Not even every note in a given measure.
> 
> So PLEASE, Spitfire. Can we just get normal legatos like EVERY OTHER LIBRARY so that we can maybe use it on a regular basis?


I think the whole point of the film scoring selections are pre orchestrated patches that are common in Hollywood film scoring. If you want individual sections then get BBCSO or SSO?


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## Bman70 (Aug 31, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I love Guy and his videos but this really makes no sense. Low Strings is awesome and why would anybody really want to use a full section patch for doing chords? That's anything but normal. But Cello+Basses in Octaves is pretty standard and those players in that room sound fantastic on the low end.


I might have seen him say "ain't gonna sound too great," and misinterpreted a bit.. he does later seem to emphasize the fact that it's meant more for lines and not chords. Anyway LLS is the one expansion I'm likely to buy so far... just sounds very good and adding legato is the icing.


----------



## Bman70 (Aug 31, 2021)

Mackieguy said:


> While it does sound fantastic, I feel like Spitfire is giving us a lot of icing but skimping on the cake. The fact that instrument-specific legatos are STILL missing (unless I’m wrong which would be GREAT!) means that I CAN’T USE THIS LIBRARY! Legatos are incredibly important for realism. The fact I have to use pre-orchestrated patches is ridiculous. Yes, there are times that these patches will absolutely shine but I don’t always double everything. The celli and horns may double here and there but certainly not for every note. Not even every note in a given measure.
> 
> So PLEASE, Spitfire. Can we just get normal legatos like EVERY OTHER LIBRARY so that we can maybe use it on a regular basis?


They know that we want legato strings, but want to keep people hungry and let them buy up the less in-demand options first.


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## dcoscina (Aug 31, 2021)

José Herring said:


> I love Guy and his videos but this really makes no sense. Low Strings is awesome and why would anybody really want to use a full section patch for doing chords? That's anything but normal. But Cello+Basses in Octaves is pretty standard and those players in that room sound fantastic on the low end.


This ^
Guy is great but chordal playing on low strings is a no-no. Unless you are a mid 20th century Polish composer #Gorecki. #kilar. #lutaslowski

LOL


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## muziksculp (Aug 31, 2021)

ThomasJ.Curran said:


> I think the whole point of the film scoring selections are pre orchestrated patches that are common in Hollywood film scoring. If you want individual sections then get BBCSO or SSO?


Yes, or Wait for the AR-1 Modular Orchestra


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## PaulieDC (Aug 31, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> They know that we want legato strings, but want to keep people hungry and let them buy up the less in-demand options first.


I just commented on YouTube that "we are READY for INDIVIDUAL INSTRUMENTS with real legatos... it's almost painful".


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## SupremeFist (Aug 31, 2021)

PaulieDC said:


> I just commented on YouTube that "we are READY for INDIVIDUAL INSTRUMENTS with real legatos... it's almost painful".


Yeah but I think it's established that we're never gonna get those until the modular orchestra starts rolling out.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 31, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> This ^
> Guy is great but chordal playing on low strings is a no-no. Unless you are a mid 20th century Polish composer #Gorecki. #kilar. #lutaslowski
> 
> LOL


I haven't thought of Lutoslawski since I played a piece by him for a clarinet exam many years ago. Cool guy! 🤘🏻


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## muziksculp (Aug 31, 2021)

As I have posted about AROOF and SA strategy, which is : make sure to keep it crippled.


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## PaulieDC (Aug 31, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Actually I heard it Phenomenal Piccolos - 16va with Flutes. Next is Delicious Dog Whistles - 24va with Flutes.


Tuned to 432 of course!


SupremeFist said:


> Yeah but I think it's established that we're never gonna get those until the modular orchestra starts rolling out.


I'm afraid you're right.


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## Drumdude2112 (Aug 31, 2021)

some damn nice sounding patches for 49 bucks…I’m in 👍🏻


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## Cass Hansen (Aug 31, 2021)

Correct me if I’m wrong, I only glanced at the video, but the tuba and horn range looked like it was only 1 1/2 octaves and both the horn and tuba are capable of much more than that.

I didn’t buy the sparkling woodwinds for the same reason after I heard it didn’t go high enough to be that useful.

Why are they limiting the range so much in these expansions? They sound absolutely great and I get it; the expansions are to explore combinations, the modular libraries to come will focus on individual instruments, a2, a3, a4. So they’re separate entities. But why limit/curtail the range on these?


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## Soundbed (Aug 31, 2021)

Futchibon said:


> Legendary Low Strings is really good!


Yeah it's got that last 5-10% of "sounds like cinema" that is difficult to achieve with regular cellos + basses. But ... in context, that 5-10% per Selection is maybe 1% of an entire piece.

I keep thinking there will be a bundle / sale on the ARO Selections someday. So to get these 1% increments at less than $50 a pop will make me feel better inside. 

In the meantime I can practice instrument balancing and achieving similar effects with individual sections (in octaves when appropriate etc.) and learning to hear what make them sound good.

There is the argument that the selections "save time" for busy media composers.

But you'd need to remember all the times and places when they "work great" versus "have limitations" in order to actually save that time. I'd hate to try saving time by pulling up one, starting to write and then realizing I wanted a note that was inrange of the instruments but out of range of the Selection. Or I wanted a divisi in the middle of a part but the part was only in octaves.



José Herring said:


> I love Guy and his videos but this really makes no sense. Low Strings is awesome and why would anybody really want to use a full section patch for doing chords? That's anything but normal. But Cello+Basses in Octaves is pretty standard and those players in that room sound fantastic on the low end.





dcoscina said:


> This ^
> Guy is great but chordal playing on low strings is a no-no. Unless you are a mid 20th century Polish composer #Gorecki. #kilar. #lutaslowski
> 
> LOL



fwiw Guy was specifically explaining why you would NOT write full chords (triads) in octaves with cellos and basses, during that section of the video. (see next comment)



Bman70 said:


> I might have seen him say "ain't gonna sound too great," and misinterpreted a bit.. he does later seem to emphasize the fact that it's meant more for lines and not chords. Anyway LLS is the one expansion I'm likely to buy so far... just sounds very good and adding legato is the icing.



Right (for anyone reading and not watching the clip) Guy goes on to explain how he'd orchestrate that chord with the violas, maybe cello in divisi, no violins because no vibrato on that lowest string, and of course basses doubling only to lowest note an octave down.

I am slightly conflicted about the thought of buying all these purpose built pre-orchestrations for reasons like this. You'd need to hold in your brain all the limitation before you reached for them. (At least I would.)


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## José Herring (Aug 31, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> fwiw Guy was specifically explaining why you would NOT write full chords (triads) in octaves with cellos and basses, during that section of the video. (see next comment)
> 
> 
> Right (for anyone reading and not watching the clip) Guy goes on to explain how he'd orchestrate that chord with the violas, maybe cello in divisi, no violins because no vibrato on that lowest string, and of course basses doubling only to lowest note an octave down.


Yes thanks. I did watch the clip and it makes perfect sense.


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## Soundbed (Aug 31, 2021)

Cass Hansen said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong, I only glanced at the video, but the tuba and horn range looked like it was only 1 1/2 octaves and both the horn and tuba are capable of much more than that.
> 
> I didn’t buy the sparkling woodwinds for the same reason after I heard it didn’t go high enough to be that useful.
> 
> Why are they limiting the range so much in these expansions? They sound absolutely great and I get it; the expansions are to explore combinations, the modular libraries to come will focus on individual instruments, a2, a3, a4. So they’re separate entities. But why limit/curtail the range on these?


Yep. I'm the target market for the sound and the mic selections, and I could be the target market for the pre-orchestrated concept (maybe) but not the (limited) features like range limitations. I even glanced at some Williams scores to see if the ranges they omitted in the flutes were avoided by JW but no, he often enough went beyond what Spitfire recorded, so I made my video about the range of the Sparkling Woodwinds. I presume the omitted horn and tuba ranges are often enough found in scores from Holst and Williams as well (haven't checked yet). Anyone care to confirm?

EDIT - and I noticed that Paul mentions in the video that the effective range is bigger because of the octave doubling. But the point is — unless I am mistaken — the instruments have ranges that can be doubled in octaves AND would afaik still be practical AND found in the existing scores on which the techniques are based ... BUT were not part of the product.


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## JohannesR (Aug 31, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Yeah it's got that last 5-10% of "sounds like cinema" that is difficult to achieve with regular cellos + basses. But ... in context, that 5-10% per Selection is maybe 1% of an entire piece.


Yes and no! I think Spitfire are bloodsuckers just as much as the next guy  , but these can be useful for exposed lines. It's very easy to overwrite when doing mockups because we're always trying to hide artefacts by layering instruments. So, the 1% of the entire piece, can actually be 5-10% of the piece if these patches can help being brave and fearless and leave the lines exposed.

On the other hand, those chordal passages in the demos with octave patches and unusual combinations does not make sense to me. I guess if it sounds good, it is good - but there's no way I'm gonna get that recorded anyway.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 31, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Yeah it's got that last 5-10% of "sounds like cinema" that is difficult to achieve with regular cellos + basses. But ... in context, that 5-10% per Selection is maybe 1% of an entire piece.


Yeah I remember when that came out I deliberately tried replicating it with BBCSO and I was like "ok, maybe the £50 patch sounds like 3% better?", but as you say irrelevant in a full orchestration. But if that's all or nearly all that's going on in the moment I can maybe see the value in getting the AROOF version. Still, I don't think it's going to make or break any director's or producer's decision. So I conclude these are all really quite boutique and specialised add-ons for busy pros who don't care about price and find they solve a problem they face quite frequently.


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## Soundbed (Aug 31, 2021)

JohannesR said:


> So, the 1% of the entire piece, can actually be 5-10% of the piece if these patches can help being brave and fearless and leave the lines exposed.





SupremeFist said:


> But if that's all or nearly all that's going on in the moment I can maybe see the value in getting the AROOF version.


Ah, ok ... yes I concede these points. If the part is exposed ... hmm. *Then* the "magic" that is getting captured from the players in the same room together for the specific techniques & orchestration choices do help move the "convincing"-ness of the sound.

*sigh*


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## easyrider (Aug 31, 2021)

I’ll pick this up sounds great !


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## Henu (Aug 31, 2021)

Sounds a bit similar to Cinebrass Sonore in my ears!


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## Cass Hansen (Aug 31, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Yep. I'm the target market for the sound and the mic selections, and I could be the target market for the pre-orchestrated concept (maybe) but not the (limited) features like range limitations. I even glanced at some Williams scores to see if the ranges they omitted in the flutes were avoided by JW but no, he often enough went beyond what Spitfire recorded, so I made my video about the range of the Sparkling Woodwinds. I presume the omitted horn and tuba ranges are often enough found in scores from Holst and Williams as well (haven't checked yet). Anyone care to confirm?
> 
> EDIT - and I noticed that Paul mentions in the video that the effective range is bigger because of the octave doubling. But the point is — unless I am mistaken — the instruments have ranges that can be doubled in octaves AND would afaik still be practical AND found in the existing scores on which the techniques are based ... BUT were not part of the product.


Hey Soundbed, always enjoy your in-depth view of things like this—very useful--thanks.

I’m the kind of composer who likes to push the envelope for what’s considered normal in orchestration, such as Beethoven, Stravinsky, Hans Zimmer. Sometimes the sound you get from extreme ranges is so unique I love it.

But getting back to this expansion, I don’t consider 1 ½ octaves extreme and as you said, they mention in the video they’re doubled an octave apart hence increasing the perceived range, but the tuba (depending on which tuba you are using) has the same tonal range approximately an octave lower than the horn anyway so it’s really a wash as I see it. They could play together with a 2 1/2 octave range or more.


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## Gene Pool (Aug 31, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> EDIT - and I noticed that Paul mentions in the video that the effective range is bigger because of the octave doubling.


Weird reasoning. A figure or phrase spanning a P4th scored in octaves or double- or triple-octaves still just spans a P4th.

If the part of the video I saw is indicative, it looks like they only covered a P12th, but that hardly seems possible from a scoring logic POV. They could've easily covered 3 octaves, which would've been a little bit unique. (Maybe they did, I don't know; just going off the part I saw.)

But if it really is the case that it only spans a 12th, that is a very serious and unnecessary hobbling that will unduly limit the already limited concept of samples with builtin scoring.

The doubling itself as an exposed coupling is rare, and more useful in softer dynamics for broad lines. JW uses the odd slow swell with this (or very similar) doubling to dial up a signal of, what have you, suspense, danger, foreboding, et cetera, but not those fast swells like in the video.

As a broad line, you could use a few bars of Wagner's _Funeral March_ (bars 1 – 4 of the second page in the video below) as one prototype, though it's not identical to this sample scoring it is close in intent. (BTW, don't puzzle over the transpositions in this old edition. Wagner made one of his eccentric experiments with the transpositions in _Gotterdamerung_ and the published parts were long ago adjusted to correct the mess.)

Anyway, with Middle-C as C4, it's...

2 Horns + 2 Wagner Tubas (begin on G3)
2 Horns + 2 Bass Tubas (begin on G2)


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## José Herring (Aug 31, 2021)

Gene Pool said:


> Weird reasoning. A figure or phrase spanning a P4th scored in octaves or double- or triple-octaves still just spans a P4th.
> 
> If the part of the video I saw is indicative, it looks like they only covered a P12th, but that hardly seems possible from a scoring logic POV. They could've easily covered 3 octaves, which would've been a little bit unique. (Maybe they did, I don't know; just going off the part I saw.)
> 
> ...



Wagner may have been a total jerk in real life but man was he a GREAT friggin' composer. The dramatic tension is unbelievable.


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## AEF (Aug 31, 2021)

They could have just recorded four horn legatos and it would be far more valuable than this. 

I wont be picking up any of these selections. Total money sink.


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## Craig Sharmat (Aug 31, 2021)

I think at 49 bucks it is a get, wish the lib went beyond F. I have a feeling a certain reviewer here may be shaking his head saying where are the bullocks?. Brass sounds very much like Albion patches in my head, brass in those are excellent and a far wider dynamic range. Possibly a good pairing as these have more variety in the softer dynamic area. I would not get these for anything needing loud brass. Still love the sound of the room.


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## Futchibon (Aug 31, 2021)

dcoscina said:


> I wonder if it's Blow-your-brains-out-brass (and strings). Oh wait, that's JXL brass.


With a blow-your-brains-out price to match!


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## borisb2 (Aug 31, 2021)

Why is spitfire not giving us propper horns, cello and tuba patches playing individually??without 8vb all over the place? I would pay 99.- for that .. or more. Such a beautiful tone in that room. But I dont recall needing horns and tuba 8vb very often


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## Evans (Aug 31, 2021)

borisb2 said:


> Why is spitfire not giving us propper horns, cello and tuba patches playing individually??without 8vb all over the place?


Because people are buying these things, and some/many of those people might also buy the "modular" orchestra products. If they weren't selling well, I imagine Spitfire would change course. 

Even if it doesn't fit my needs, I can acknowledge that and move on.


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## mybadmemory (Aug 31, 2021)

borisb2 said:


> Why is spitfire not giving us propper horns, cello and tuba patches playing individually??without 8vb all over the place? I would pay 99.- for that .. or more. Such a beautiful tone in that room. But I dont recall needing horns and tuba 8vb very often


They will. It’s a three part series. Foundations was the ensemble library. The selections are 9 pre-orchestrated expansions. And the last part will be the full modular orchestra with individual sections and soloists. We’re only in the middle of this still!


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## Mackieguy (Aug 31, 2021)

Evans said:


> They're going to. They're just doing these first. And if other people keep buying them, they'll keep doing it.


I hope they do it sooner rather than later. At some point, people are going to stop buying what they don’t necessarily need.


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## Jotto (Aug 31, 2021)

Imo its just to expencive. One for 50€ is ok…but 5…6.7..8. no way.


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## Futchibon (Aug 31, 2021)

Jotto said:


> Imo its just to expencive. One for 50€ is ok…but 5…6.7..8. no way.


They're turning into Apple 

It's a good way for them to make money - Christian himself said that if he were just a composer and not head of SA he would buy BBCSO Core rather than Pro, and I think Core certainly represents the best value in the series, at less than half the full price of Pro.

The AROOF package should get SA closer to the price of BBCSO Pro with people buying the expansions in small chunks over time.

I got AROOF for $218 and the expansions are $34 with EDU discount, which is a good deal for me. But I can see why some people don't like it.


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## Alex Fraser (Aug 31, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> They will. It’s a three part series. Foundations was the ensemble library. The selections are 9 pre-orchestrated expansions. And the last part will be the full modular orchestra with individual sections and soloists. We’re only in the middle of this still!


I'd venture maybe even nearer the start. I do wonder if the mod orchestra will be broken out further beyond strings, brass and wind libraries. Think Violins Volume 1: Core articulations. etc


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## Bman70 (Aug 31, 2021)

Jotto said:


> Imo its just to expencive. One for 50€ is ok…but 5…6.7..8. no way.


With 9 expansions altogether, buying all will end up at $450. Which isn't really crazy, until you factor in Foundations Lol. Anyway it's worth selecting judiciously. So far I only want Low Strings and, well that's it, I have horns in Foundations.


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## Jotto (Aug 31, 2021)

9 expansions. You said it. Im out.


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## Composer 2021 (Aug 31, 2021)

Well that looks disappointing. Who would ever want different instruments to be combined together without the option to have them separate?

"We were on the verge of greatness. We were this close."


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## jazzman7 (Aug 31, 2021)

Once again, color me underwhelmed with another Selection release. Does it sound great? Yes, but why such a short range again? I was so looking forward to these new releases after buying into AROOF right from the start. I got in early enough for the freebie and I picked LLC. Otherwise, none of these others have motivated me to buy. Ranges are short and these specific orchestrations are just not something I would use often enough to justify the SSD space or cash. 

I can layer Glock over woods pretty easily via this wonderful new invention called MIDI with my current Libs. 

So 3 out of 4 times they have released these, my reaction has been: "They've put out a new one?!?" After checking them out... "Oh well, maybe the next one will be more interesting"


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## GMT (Aug 31, 2021)

I'm having trouble understanding these latest releases. Yes, the individual libraries are cheap and sound pretty good, but their use is so limited to very specific functions that I doubt I would use them more than a couple of times. There is simply no flexibility in them. If they had a system where you could switch/slide between the two instruments in the horns and tuba (for example), going from only tuba to only horns, and all points in between, I could see the sense in it, but as is, it seems very very restricted. I am seriously underwhelmed with the whole Abbey Road thing so far. Shame. Maybe I'm just not the target customer they are aiming at.


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## Peter Satera (Aug 31, 2021)

For me, I quite like the combo selections. Of course, like everyone, I'd be instantly onboard the isolated sections. But to be honest, we all have them already. We have isolated horns/bones/etc. This is giving us/me something I don't have. A combined sound which is perfectly balanced with zero effort from me. It reminds me of the HornsBones in symphobia, which I liked when hearing it.

Yes, it's limited, but it's also a different approach. There's not enforcing the purchase either. Don't want or don't need, don't buy... . Options are good, the modular sections are coming, it's just a matter of patience.


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## jbuhler (Aug 31, 2021)

GMT said:


> Maybe I'm just not the target customer they are aiming at.


This is almost certainly correct.


----------



## borisb2 (Aug 31, 2021)

Evans said:


> .. Even if it doesn't fit my needs, I can acknowledge that and move on.


you're right - one has to move on  .. well thats not too hard in this case - saving the money for the modular series


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## muziksculp (Aug 31, 2021)

Pass, on this expansion, and all upcoming ones. Just not my cup of tea. or coffee. 

Surely looking forward, and very excited about the release of AR-1 Modular Orchestra. Hopefully one AR-1 Orchestra module will be released this year.


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## John R Wilson (Aug 31, 2021)

Just taken a look at this, its also not one for me.


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## styledelk (Aug 31, 2021)

More for me. That's how it works, right?


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## andyhy (Aug 31, 2021)

Imho LLS has been the most useful expansion to date but this one has such a narrow range that it doesn't interest personally. I'm bound to make a mistake and include a silent key outside the range.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Aug 31, 2021)

I'm have no problem with sections at all. There is something magical about a true section recorded together rather than stacking together different samples. Really hoping for lush octave-violins! :D 

BUT - why such a narrow range? All the involved instruments can mostly play about an octave higher and lower. This might be the lowest tonal range I've ever seen. 
Just unfortunate that there is this unique opportunity of instruments recorded at Abbey Road and then you might constantly hit the boundaries of the range when composing.


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## Futchibon (Aug 31, 2021)

DarkestShadow said:


> I'm have no problem with sections at all. There is something magical about a true section recorded together rather than stacking together different samples. Really hoping for lush octave-violins! :D


Agreed! Can't wait for the high strings, or 'Very Excited Violins and Violas' as Paul calls them  



DarkestShadow said:


> BUT - why such a narrow range? All the involved instruments can mostly play about an octave higher and lower. This might be the lowest tonal range I've ever seen.
> Just unfortunate that there is this unique opportunity of instruments recorded at Abbey Road and then you might constantly hit the boundaries of the range when composing.


I'm beginning to suspect Spitfire Audio might be a business rather than a charity. It's almost as if they're trying to get us to buy as many products of theirs as we can by not offering totally formed libraries. Or perhaps I'm paranoid?


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## MelodicAdagio (Aug 31, 2021)

Bman70 said:


> But John Williams....


...who borrowed the horns-celli pairing from Holst. Much of Williams' Star Wars orchestration was clearly based on Holst's The Planets. This pairing is a good technique, though, and the new ARO Great Brass captures it nicely.


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 31, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Pass, on this expansion, and all upcoming ones. Just not my cup of tea. or coffee.
> 
> Surely looking forward, and very excited about the release of AR-1 Modular Orchestra. Hopefully one AR-1 Orchestra module will be released this year.


You mean they’re planning like their SSO & SStO? That’d be good. I like that kinda collection.


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## holywilly (Aug 31, 2021)

I think the Soaring legato is pretty useful in context to add extra width, worth the $49? thought?


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## VSriHarsha (Aug 31, 2021)

holywilly said:


> I think the Soaring legato is pretty useful in context to add extra width, worth the $49? thought?


Brass Soaring legato? 
Wow! The title’s Grand Brass. Not Soaring Strings & Brass. Cool! I think they’ll plan to release the Strings as well.


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## ryans (Aug 31, 2021)

DarkestShadow said:


> There is something magical about a true section recorded together rather than stacking together different samples. Really hoping for lush octave-violins!


Absolutely. Strings in octaves is such a soaring beautiful blend that doesn't work with individually sampled sections.

I've had to resort to sampling my own which has not been.. ideal..


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## jbuhler (Aug 31, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Pass, on this expansion, and all upcoming ones. Just not my cup of tea. or coffee.
> 
> Surely looking forward, and very excited about the release of AR-1 Modular Orchestra. Hopefully one AR-1 Orchestra module will be released this year.


Given that SF has slowed down the release of AROOF expansions, I think we're unlikely to see an AR modular library before summer 2022.


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## jbuhler (Aug 31, 2021)

holywilly said:


> I think the Soaring legato is pretty useful in context to add extra width, worth the $49? thought?


How often do you use horns and cello or horns, cellos, and bassoons on lyrical lines? If you use those combinations regularly it is likely worth it, and the range on that patch seemed adequate in a way that the low octave horn/tuba patch does not.


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## szczaw (Aug 31, 2021)

Why stop at 9 ? Record ALL orchestration devices (that I don't know about).


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## holywilly (Aug 31, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> How often do you use horns and cello or horns, cellos, and bassoons on lyrical lines? If you use those combinations regularly it is likely worth it, and the range on that patch seemed adequate in a way that the low octave horn/tuba patch does not.


Regularly, the Soaring legato covers the whole width spectrum that add extra characters. I think I'm gonna give it a shot, in a near future. September just started, I'll see what's coming up within a week.


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## holywilly (Aug 31, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> Brass Soaring legato?
> Wow! The title’s Grand Brass. Not Soaring Strings & Brass. Cool! I think they’ll plan to release the Strings as well.


Soaring Legato included in Grand Brass that covers 4 horns and 10 cellis.


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## szczaw (Aug 31, 2021)

It's a great learning experience. Paying 50 bucks per orchestration device makes it memorable.


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## jbuhler (Aug 31, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Regularly, the Soaring legato covers the whole width spectrum that add extra characters. I think I'm gonna give it a shot, in a near future. September just started, I'll see what's coming up within a week.


The one nice thing about these expansions never going on sale is that there is never any incentive to pick them up until you need them.


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## jbuhler (Aug 31, 2021)

szczaw said:


> Why stop at 9 ? Record ALL orchestration devices (that I don't know about).


I did wonder that SF stopped at 9 since it seems like you could push it much further than that and still not run into conflicts with the modular orchestra. If I think about it, I guess they didn't really say they'd only do 9; they just said that they had 9 that had been recorded, so they can add more if they change their mind.


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## emilio_n (Aug 31, 2021)

The short-range is a shame. I hope they recorded the full range and we will have an update sometime in the future. No sense record only half of the registry having the chance to make it full.


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## InLight-Tone (Aug 31, 2021)

Underwhelmed to the max. More interested in the AR modular sections. No more money spent till then.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 31, 2021)

Mackieguy said:


> At some point, people are going to stop buying what they don’t necessarily need.


... and then this forum will self-destruct.


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## muziksculp (Aug 31, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> The short-range is a shame. I hope they recorded the full range and we will have an update sometime in the future. No sense record only half of the registry having the chance to make it full.


Good Luck.


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## muziksculp (Aug 31, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Given that SF has slowed down the release of AROOF expansions, I think we're unlikely to see an AR modular library before summer 2022.


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## Geoff Grace (Sep 1, 2021)

emilio_n said:


> The short-range is a shame. I hope they recorded the full range and we will have an update sometime in the future. No sense record only half of the registry having the chance to make it full.


I believe this was a rejected marketing photo for the product:


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## mybadmemory (Sep 1, 2021)

I’m having a hard time understanding the disappointment. AROOF + the Selections is *supposed* to be pre-orchestrated ensembles for fast work. That is what was said all along.

The modular orchestra with individual sections and soloists for detailed work will come too, just later. But rather waiting for those personally doesn’t invalidate these other products now.

Recording, editing, and programming an entire orchestra is massive task, that all companies that do it spread out, in one way or another, over multiple years. I don’t see how this is much different?


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## Laurin Lenschow (Sep 1, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I’m having a hard time understanding the disappointment. AROOF + the Selections is *supposed* to be pre-orchestrated ensembles for fast work. That is what was said all along.


That is right, but if it was just about a fast workflow, they could have given us more than 1.5-2 octaves and record dynamics that push beyond a solid mf. This way it seems like they want to make absolutely sure that everyone who bought the expansions still _needs _the full modular orchestra once it is released.


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## axb312 (Sep 1, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I’m having a hard time understanding the disappointment. AROOF + the Selections is *supposed* to be pre-orchestrated ensembles for fast work. That is what was said all along.
> 
> The modular orchestra with individual sections and soloists for detailed work will come too, just later. But rather waiting for those personally doesn’t invalidate these other products now.
> 
> Recording, editing, and programming an entire orchestra is massive task, that all companies that do it spread out, in one way or another, over multiple years. I don’t see how this is much different?


Perhaps the way Spitfire is wasting people's money and time (imo). Could've just started with the modular series one section at a time instead of spending on these pre-orchestrated ensembles and incomplete instruments (in foundations, again imo) and then recouping unnecessary costs from their customers. Perhaps with all the recording and programming time they've had so far, they could've had the strings and/ or percussion out by now? Or perhaps they've already recorded everything and they're trying to milk it for all it's worth.

Note: Foundations and it's expansions will costs around 900 USD. Which is a lot (again imo and based on my earning conditions. YMMV).

Course all of this is a lot of speculation and hot air but I've had these doubts from day 1.


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## mybadmemory (Sep 1, 2021)

axb312 said:


> Perhaps the way Spitfire is wasting people's money and time (imo). Could've just start with the modular series one section at a time instead of spending on these pre-orchestrated ensembles and incomplete instruments (in foundations, again imo) and then recouping unnecessary costs from their customers. Perhaps with all the recording and programming time they've had so far, they could've had the strings and/ or percussion out by now? Or perhaps they've already recorded everything and they're trying to milk it for all it's worth.
> 
> Note: Foundations and it's expansions will costs around 900 USD. Which is a lot (again imo and based on my earning conditions. YMMV).
> 
> Course all of this is a lot of speculation and hot air but I've had these doubts from day 1.


My assumption is that the majority of Spitfires potential users are not professionals willing to spend 2-3000€ on a modular orchestra (that requires substantial skills in order to sound good), but rather beginners and hobbyists much more willing to spend 400€ on a starter package (and 50€ per expansion spread out over over time) for something that requires much less knowledge and effort to instantly sound impressive. They're a company after all. Companies need profit, and the obvious potential for real growth is within the wannabe-pro segment of users that clearly outnumber the real pros in numbers.


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## axb312 (Sep 1, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> My assumption is that the majority of Spitfires potential users are not professionals willing to spend 2-3000€ on a modular orchestra (that requires substantial skills in order to sound good), but rather beginners and hobbyists much more willing to spend 400€ on a starter package (and 50€ per expansion spread out over over time) for something that requires much less knowledge and effort to instantly sound impressive. They're a company after all. Companies need profit, and the obvious potential for real growth is within the wannabe-pro segment of users that clearly outnumber the real pros in numbers.


I am not a pro and my experience is that its better to skip these so called "starter" libraries and deal with the components individually. Costs less in the long run.


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## Paul Jelfs (Sep 1, 2021)

I don't think we should all be too surprised, as these "additions" or "expansions" have all been about DOING ONE SCORING TECHNIQUE well. This is a really great idea in principle, but the problem being it feels like we are getting the Cherry before the cake in a way; 

Personally I would of loved to have seen the Modular , fully fleshed out Sections 1ST and these being the icing on the cake, after that. 

If someone is looking for that "Particular" thing each library does well, then I think they are each extremely good value. 

I think the problem lies if you want to collect ALL of these expansions, on top of the BASIC Foundation one, things can get expensive quickly, and yet you still wont have individual bread and butter sections for the most common arts, which I get the feeling is what MOST people on here want more. 

I personally would of loved them to have gone with the Modular, detailed sections first (Which obviously will be a lot more expensive) but I can also see the argument for Spitfire doing something different. 

After all they would get damned if they brought out the Modular Sections First (Spitfire just making new X library , not updating their old!!!) and damned with their current approach (what is the point in having such a limited use library without the basic arts!) 

Have they mentioned how many of these "specialist" libraries they intend to bring out? Probably quite a few, and I think it might turn out that this is there version of O.T. Inspire Range- Pre Orchestrated ensembles etc. 

I won't be surprised once they have done the first lot of expansions, if they package it as a Collection - at a reduced price. 

This again, could be them dipping their toes in the water with the "A la Carte" model that O.T. has successfully started with their SINE libraries. 

What do you guys think ?


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## mybadmemory (Sep 1, 2021)

axb312 said:


> I am not a pro and my experience is that its better to skip these so called "starter" libraries and deal with the components individually. Costs less in the long run.


Yes, but the point is what the majority of their users want and are willing to pay for, and judging by the comments in their social channels, the majority of their users seem to *love* stuff like this. I think VI control and the people here is a small fish in a huge sea of casual users, that would never buy what we buy, but that happily put out 50€ for the high of getting to feel like you might become HZ one day.


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## Paul Jelfs (Sep 1, 2021)

I should add, that I also think, it would of been probably better to of held off and released , say a series of 6-8 at once - Individually and as a bundle.

That way people would of found and bought the ones most useful to them, and it would of seemed like excellent value.


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## mybadmemory (Sep 1, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> I should add, that I also think, it would of been probably better to of held off and released , say a series of 6-8 at once - Individually and as a bundle.
> 
> That way people would of found and bought the ones most useful to them, and it would of seemed like excellent value.


But then they wound't have sold as many. 

So perhaps better for users which would only have bought a few, but much worse for Spitfire that would have have undoubtedly sold less.


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## Gerbil (Sep 1, 2021)

The word that pops into my head is 'tantalizing'.

These extensions are all both useful and stunted in equal measures, but the big thing for me is that they sound fantastic. Really beautiful. Nothing has disappointed me so far (including the legatos, which have not often been my favourite articulation in Spitfire's libraries) and they get me very excited for what's to come over the next year or three.


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## Paul Jelfs (Sep 1, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> But then they wound't have sold as many.
> 
> So perhaps better for users which would only have bought a few, but much worse for Spitfire that would have have undoubtedly sold less.


Wait - WHAT ? You MEAN SPITFIRE HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN AFTER MY MONEY ALL ALONG AND ARE NOT INTERESTED IN NUTURING MY TALENT AS A COMPOSER ?!  

Wait till the Legato Police here about this !!!


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## Drundfunk (Sep 1, 2021)

Paul Jelfs said:


> Personally I would *HAVE* loved to have seen the Modular , fully fleshed out Sections 1ST and these being the icing on the cake, after that.
> 
> I personally would *HAVE* loved them to have gone with the Modular, detailed sections first (Which obviously will be a lot more expensive) but I can also see the argument for Spitfire doing something different.
> 
> What do you guys think ?


I think it's always "would have" (or would've) and never "would of". Sorry, but this mistake is driving me crazy and I don't understand why it is so common... (Don't want to be an ass, but PLEASE for your own sake...). Apart from that I agree with you, but I don't think Spitfire will adopt the a la carte model. Their catalogue has a lot of overlap (orchestras in Air for example). It wouldn't work as well imo, especially since their player isn't designed for it and it doesn't really work with Kontakt.


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## Evans (Sep 1, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> My assumption is that the majority of Spitfires potential users are not professionals willing to spend 2-3000€ on a modular orchestra


On the flip side: I had very little money for gear and software when I was focusing on music, because quite frankly I'm not great and never had aspirations to be much better. It was a nice way to waste away my youth, like someone who fizzles out in the minor leagues in their chosen sport.

Now that my career is in software development, I'm quite frankly far more equipped financially to dump money into the more expensive libraries.


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## szczaw (Sep 1, 2021)

axb312 said:


> I am not a pro and my experience is that its better to skip these so called "starter" libraries and deal with the components individually. Costs less in the long run.


There are people who will pay for both. We're getting ensemble extensions first, because they're easier and faster to complete (?). In the meantime, SF is working on something bigger and more detailed. At least this is what I would be doing with a brand name like AR, do some 'quick' foundation for peasants, follow up with ensembles and finally drop big ass detailed libraries.


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## becolossal (Sep 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Pass, on this expansion, and all upcoming ones. Just not my cup of tea. or coffee.
> 
> Surely looking forward, and very excited about the release of AR-1 Modular Orchestra. Hopefully one AR-1 Orchestra module will be released this year.


WE KNOW.


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## jbuhler (Sep 1, 2021)

Gerbil said:


> The word that pops into my head is 'tantalizing'.
> 
> These extensions are all both useful and stunted in equal measures, but the big thing for me is that they sound fantastic. Really beautiful. Nothing has disappointed me so far (including the legatos, which have not often been my favourite articulation in Spitfire's libraries) and they get me very excited for what's to come over the next year or three.


Sparking woodwinds don’t really sparkle due to the restricted range. And in general I find I use the main woodwinds patch in AROOF instead nearly every time. The other three however do all sound great.


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## holywilly (Sep 1, 2021)

I think it will be a loyalty discount (or upgrade or whatever) for Modular Orchestra for people who own all expansions and foundation. $49 for each expansion is nearly no brainer.


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 1, 2021)

What I still don’t get is why all octaves. Every time! LLS, SW, WF & now the GB. It’s not that I don’t like ARO coz it serves the basic purposes but I just don’t prefer. Although, when they announced the FSS, I thought maybe I’ll buy these but not one caught my attention, yet. Maybe their Modular Orchestra is something I am gonna buy?


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## VSriHarsha (Sep 1, 2021)

holywilly said:


> Soaring Legato included in Grand Brass that covers 4 horns and 10 cellis.


That’s cool!


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## Alex Fraser (Sep 1, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> My assumption is that the majority of Spitfires potential users are not professionals willing to spend 2-3000€ on a modular orchestra (that requires substantial skills in order to sound good), but rather beginners and hobbyists much more willing to spend 400€ on a starter package (and 50€ per expansion spread out over over time) for something that requires much less knowledge and effort to instantly sound impressive. They're a company after all. Companies need profit, and the obvious potential for real growth is within the wannabe-pro segment of users that clearly outnumber the real pros in numbers.


Bingo, MBM.

Spitifire's newly released "Academy" is a good indicator of this. The main market now is non-pros with disposable income. (Ironically, most composers who scratch at living at this have to wait for the Spitfire sales...)

As for the "pros don't use this stuff argument"....I can assure anyone that "pros" use whatever shortcuts are available. Others' mileage may vary, but I've yet to use a modular orchestra against the clock but the Albions have had plenty of outings.

I foresee a forum meltdown when the price of the modular AR products are revealed..


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## jbuhler (Sep 1, 2021)

VSriHarsha said:


> What I still don’t get is why all octaves. Every time! LLS, SW, WF & now the GB. It’s not that I don’t like ARO coz it serves the basic purposes but I just don’t prefer. Although, when they announced the FSS, I thought maybe I’ll buy these but not one caught my attention, yet. Maybe their Modular Orchestra is something I am gonna buy?


The octaves are there so the library doesn't compete with the AR modular. The expansions then serve as extensions of both AROOF and the modular library when it comes out, while also giving incentive to buy the modules. The octave doublings—well maybe not horns and tubas but certainly cellos and basses and flutes an octave up in woodwinds—are also quite common and don't always replicate quite right stacked. Cello patch plus double bass patch an octave lower is not identical to cellos and basses recorded in octaves.


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## Mackieguy (Sep 1, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I’m having a hard time understanding the disappointment. AROOF + the Selections is *supposed* to be pre-orchestrated ensembles for fast work. That is what was said all along.
> 
> The modular orchestra with individual sections and soloists for detailed work will come too, just later. But rather waiting for those personally doesn’t invalidate these other products now.
> 
> Recording, editing, and programming an entire orchestra is massive task, that all companies that do it spread out, in one way or another, over multiple years. I don’t see how this is much different?


If it was recorded ANYWHERE other than Abbey Road, I’d be totally with you.

But they recorded a sample library at ABBEY FREAKIN’ ROAD! Who doesn’t want that sound for epic scores? It’s The Sound. So for SF to merely regulate it solely to the quick and dirty crowd/needs is hugely short-sighted. You might be right but that would be a tragedy. If they are still working on the modular version then great! I just hope they realize that there is a whole lot of us that want to orchestrate in the traditional manner AND still capture The Sound.


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## chrisav (Sep 1, 2021)

Of course they realize that. Hence the Modular AR libraries.


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## muziksculp (Sep 1, 2021)

Laurin Lenschow said:


> That is right, but if it was just about a fast workflow, they could have given us more than 1.5-2 octaves and record dynamics that push beyond a solid mf. This way it seems like they want to make absolutely sure that everyone who bought the expansions still _needs _the full modular orchestra once it is released.


As I said before, "Keep it crippled" is their strategy with AROOF Expansions.


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## mybadmemory (Sep 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> As I said before, "Keep it crippled" is their strategy with AROOF Expansions.


One mans crippled is another mans empowered.


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## muziksculp (Sep 1, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> One mans crippled is another mans empowered.


Enjoy !


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## becolossal (Sep 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> As I said before, "Keep it crippled" is their strategy with AROOF Expansions.


WE KNOW.


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## muziksculp (Sep 1, 2021)

becolossal said:


> WE KNOW.


I KNOW YOU KNOW


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## mybadmemory (Sep 1, 2021)

Mackieguy said:


> If it was recorded ANYWHERE other than Abbey Road, I’d be totally with you.
> 
> But they recorded a sample library at ABBEY FREAKIN’ ROAD! Who doesn’t want that sound for epic scores? It’s The Sound. So for SF to merely regulate it solely to the quick and dirty crowd/needs is hugely short-sighted. You might be right but that would be a tragedy. If they are still working on the modular version then great! I just hope they realize that there is a whole lot of us that want to orchestrate in the traditional manner AND still capture The Sound.


Of course they are. They’ve said all along that we’ll first get the ensembles, then the pre-orchestrated expansions, and lastly the modular sections and soloists. Why would they suddenly change that?


----------



## becolossal (Sep 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I KNOW YOU KNOW


So could you just quit since your opinion on ARO has been made abundantly clear across multiple threads? It was funny for a while, but now it's annoying to drop into any thread connected to Abbey Road and see it littered with nothing but your posts that bitch about it.


----------



## d4vec4rter (Sep 1, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> My assumption is that the majority of Spitfires potential users are not professionals willing to spend 2-3000€ on a modular orchestra (that requires substantial skills in order to sound good), but rather beginners and hobbyists much more willing to spend 400€ on a starter package (and 50€ per expansion spread out over over time) for something that requires much less knowledge and effort to instantly sound impressive. They're a company after all. Companies need profit, and the obvious potential for real growth is within the wannabe-pro segment of users that clearly outnumber the real pros in numbers.


I think you hit the nail on the head here. This is exactly why I like AROOF and these expansions. As primarily a keen hobbyist, especially in the orchestration field, I'm always leaning towards the quick, easy, yet impressive sounding solutions. Spitfire do plenty of libraries which offer individual sections and those will eventually come to Abbey Road. I can't really understand the complaints being made about this. However, I do think the range is a tad restrictive.


----------



## babylonwaves (Sep 1, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> As I said before, "Keep it crippled" is their strategy with AROOF Expansions.


they're not "crippled". they're just not what you (and other) need. I know a lot of people who write pop music and they love this stuff. It's easy to handle for them, they get a great sound without knowing any tricks/orchestration etc. they're simply not after a realistic orchestra mockup, they want a nice e.g. brass or string sound for a chorus or as spot sound. and they get it for €49.- which they appreciate.


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## muziksculp (Sep 1, 2021)

becolossal said:


> So could you just quit since your opinion on ARO has been made abundantly clear across multiple threads? It was funny for a while, but now it's annoying to drop into any thread connected to Abbey Road and see it littered with nothing but your posts that bitch about it.


Sure, no problem.

Enjoy !


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## Bman70 (Sep 1, 2021)

People are talking like Spitfire has no complete single-instrument orchestral options. That's all they've been doing for years, isn't it? Between all the BBCSO, SSO, SCS, etc. Now they try some specialized pairings and everyone is betrayed? Lol


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## szczaw (Sep 1, 2021)

SF could be constrained by what AR is willing to record.


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## Gerbil (Sep 1, 2021)

szczaw said:


> SF could be constrained by what AR is willing to record.


“No, Christian, you may not yodel”.


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## jbuhler (Sep 1, 2021)

Everything about AROOF and its expansions is consistent with the relation of Albion One and BML/SSO with a few tweaks that are similar to Bernard Herrmann Toolkit and the Studio Orchestra. It's really hard to figure out why folks are so pissy about SF's strategy here. It's also not surprising that they did AROOF and the expansions first, given that they don't seem to plan to release all the modules of the modular library at the same time and they almost certainly want to work out the initial problems before they get to the modular orchestra—which is destined to be very expensive and become the new flagship—and really they have to get the modular library as right as they can, and that will take time.


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## szczaw (Sep 1, 2021)

Hey, you want the full range ? The studio and the orchestra are here for you.


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## becolossal (Sep 1, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> Everything about AROOF and its expansions is consistent with the relation of Albion One and BML/SSO with a few tweaks that are similar to Bernard Herrmann Toolkit and the Studio Orchestra. It's really hard to figure out why folks are so pissy about SF's strategy here. It's also not surprising that they did AROOF and the expansions first, given that they don't seem to plan to release all the modules of the modular library at the same time and they almost certainly want to work out the initial problems before they get to the modular orchestra—which is destined to be very expensive and become the new flagship—and really they have to get the modular library as right as they can, and that will take time.


I'm also kind of astounded by it. My hypothesis is that some folks are on the hunt for "one sample library to rule them all," rather than approaching them as tools in a toolbox.

No one tool is going to build my house, I need many. No one library is going to write every piece for me (though I'd argue BBCSO is doing a damn good job of it on my current game project).

Even though I'm not using ARO in the final mockups, it does a wonderful job of charting my path forward to write the individual parts later. I'm also capable of looking forward to the day the Modular is released while using Foundations for what it was sold to me as: a sketching tool. Could SA have done it in a different order that might have made the whole package make more sense? Sure. Pretty sure Abbey Road, COVID, and a whole host of other things may have had different plans. Or it could just be that Foundations made more financial sense up front to get a sense of the market desire/need.

Either way, who cares? Use the tool, or don't.


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## jazzman7 (Sep 1, 2021)

becolossal said:


> I'm also kind of astounded by it. My hypothesis is that some folks are on the hunt for "one sample library to rule them all," rather than approaching them as tools in a toolbox.
> 
> No one tool is going to build my house, I need many. No one library is going to write every piece for you (though I'd argue BBCSO is doing a damn good job of it on my current game project).
> 
> ...


For many, I think the problem lies with the expectation/potential vs what has been released so far. Foundations is one gorgeous VI, and I was eagerly looking forward to the expansions. 

That 3 out of 4 of them apparently are not useful enough, and/or have a strangely unnatural limited range, is disappointing. (At least to me)

I would not have predicted when all this began (Not in a hundred years) that many of these would not even be compelling enough (to me) to shell out a measly $49. 

It's not that I "have it in" for Spitfire. Quite the contrary. 

I, and it seems many others, WANT to buy. WANT these to be great. 

The sound of that room, and even the name itself, conjures magic. Maybe the expectations are too high, but whether they are or not, that is why there may be a more intense reaction when Spitfire doesn't hit the mark. Especially with THAT room. 

Now if they would offer these when they first come out with a limited time intro price, even just $10 off, I'd bet the hornets would REALLY be buzzing about their limitations! Since there is no marketing pressure like that, I feel pretty comfortable giving many of these a pass right now. 

Actually, I think that is to Spitfire's credit.


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## Geoff Grace (Sep 1, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> It's really hard to figure out why folks are so pissy


Because it's the Internet? 

Best,

Geoff


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## Justin L. Franks (Sep 1, 2021)

Drundfunk said:


> I think it's always "would have" (or would've) and never "would of". Sorry, but this mistake is driving me crazy and I don't understand why it is so common...


It's simply because the correct contraction "would've" sounds exactly like "would of".


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## cqd (Sep 1, 2021)

I agree with musikskulp..
It does kind of ensure a lot of people will feel compelled to buy the abbey road orchestra when it comes out afterwards for God knows how much money..
I'm extremely cynical about Spitfire's business strategies at this stage..


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## Aitcpiano (Sep 1, 2021)

The ARO selections are probably targeted at a different user base and are being delivered in a fashion that maximises Abbey Roads overall sales. 

The way they are delivering Abbey Road may have been in response or in part informed by the forms people filled in to get BBCSO discover for free. They got to see what users want and how they may want it and thus can specifically target and deliver their new Abbey Road libraries in ways that could maximise it's potential sales. 

I think these selections could be useful for some users and I suppose they are not a huge expense. Personally I have only got the legendary low strings that has been quite useful and sounds great, but all the other selections have not really interested me that much including this new one.


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## Markrs (Sep 4, 2021)

Useful review and walkthrough of Grand Brass


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## Drundfunk (Sep 4, 2021)

Justin L. Franks said:


> It's simply because the correct contraction "would've" sounds exactly like "would of".


Sure I get that, but why is this mistake mostly done by native speakers? That's what's surprising me. I mean, at one point in school some teacher surely would have said something..... . Anyway, not the point . Modular Orchestra!!! Whooooooooo!


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## jbuhler (Sep 4, 2021)

Drundfunk said:


> Sure I get that, but why is this mistake mostly done by native speakers? That's what's surprising me. I mean, at one point in school some teacher surely would have said something..... . Anyway, not the point . Modular Orchestra!!! Whooooooooo!


Because when we type quickly, we tend to write out the aural version our mind forms, and homonym mistakes are very common. I notice I’m especially likely to make these errors when typing on the phone. And for whatever reason proofreading on a phone is also less reliable in my experience.


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## Geoff Grace (Sep 4, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Useful review and walkthrough of Grand Brass



Other than the misleading title (Marc obviously didn’t think it was close to being one of the worst Spitfire products), I thought it was one of the best product reviews I’ve seen on YouTube. I like his examples of the strengths and weaknesses of the library and how comprehensive he was at showing its features and limitations.

I agree that it’s worth the $49 as a supplemental add on, if you can make good use of what it offers: a great sound with a variety of options but with limitations in pitch range and dynamic range. Those constraints are sometimes surpassed by other products, but Marc appropriately points out that those libraries are more expensive. He also made valid points about the pros and cons of Grand Brass’s mixed ensemble approach.

Best,

Geoff


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## Markrs (Sep 4, 2021)

Geoff Grace said:


> Other than the misleading title (Marc obviously didn’t think it was close to being one of the worst Spitfire products), I thought it was one of the best product reviews I’ve seen on YouTube. I like his examples of the strengths and weaknesses of the library and how comprehensive he was at showing its features and limitations.
> 
> I agree that it’s worth the $49 as a supplemental add on, if you can make good use of what it offers: a great sound with a variety of options but with limitations in pitch range and dynamic range. Those constraints are sometimes surpassed by other products, but Marc appropriately points out that those products are more expensive. He also made valid points about the pros and cons of Grand Brass’s mixed ensemble approach.
> 
> ...


Completely agree, I would be happy to see more reviews like this from Marc, as it went into detail on both pros and cons and demonstrated them in comparison with other libraries. This is something not many reviewers do as they often get free copies (not knocking those reviewers, I still appreciate the reviews, it is just that they rarely go into the weakness fully and in comparison with other libraries).


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## dcoscina (Sep 4, 2021)

At this point I like to vet these YT "authorities" to see if they really know what the hell they are talking about. Marc Jovani is legit and I enjoyed this video. He knows real brass and orchestration so his thoughts on this are very insightful


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## Drumdude2112 (Sep 4, 2021)

The dude may be a bit ‘heavy handed’ in his course marketing , but i gotta hand it to him , he knows what he’s talkin’ about …Great review video…Lots of great info.


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