# MuseScore Alpha 2 released



## rudi (Aug 22, 2022)

It looks promising - it now includes VST3 support, but not earlier versions.
There is a new mixer and lots of other improvements.
They are still working on their custom library: "Muse Sounds".









MuseScore 4 Update: Alpha 2 is now released!


Hey everyone, Today, we are delighted to announce the Alpha 2 release of MuseScore 4. This is a major milestone for us because it combines (with four…




musescore.org


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## Markrs (Aug 22, 2022)

The updates sound great, very exciting!


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## Crowe (Aug 22, 2022)

That does look quite promising indeed. I think I'll give it a whirl. Haven't used Musescore in a while, it wasn't very enjoyable to use before.


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## signalpath (Aug 22, 2022)

Audio engine and playback events system is completely new in 4. These translate to both MIDI and MIDI 2.0. New plugin, Muse Sounds, will be available for testing in the (September?) Beta release.


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## dcoscina (Aug 22, 2022)

I'm going to wait for the Muse Orchestra plug-in to be available then I will check it out. I use MUSESCORE 3 for print examples as I find it's easy to copy-paste into docs. But generally, Dorico does everything I need a notation program to do. Will be curious to hear their custom library, however. This should be that bespoke orchestra that David William Hearn eluded to recording for StaffPad. Pity, it never made it to that app.


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## jsaras (Aug 22, 2022)

Version 3 does very nearly everything I need. It's very comparable to Sibelius 6. This new version looks very promising.


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## wcreed51 (Aug 23, 2022)

It doesn't work with my Focusrite interface, and doesn't seem to have an ASIO driver option


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## benwiggy (Aug 29, 2022)

The list of engraving improvements is lengthy and welcome -- though the existing behaviour of v3 is quite shocking in some cases.









Engraving improvements in MuseScore 4.0


NOTE: This document is provisional and will be updated frequently to reflect the state of development of MuseScore 4, and to clarify points made by comments…




musescore.org


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## rudi (Aug 29, 2022)

benwiggy said:


> The list of engraving improvements is lengthy and welcome -- though the existing behaviour of v3 is quite shocking in some cases.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some really impressive improvements!


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## benwiggy (Aug 30, 2022)

rudi said:


> Some really impressive improvements!


It's impressive work, certainly, though of course these are all things which the 'big three' already do, and which any notation app ought to do. 

It's great that decent engraving will be available in free software.


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## Crowe (Aug 30, 2022)

I hate that way of thinking. Just because other software does it doesn't mean it can't have its own identity. That's not how reality works. 'The big three' also do a lot of things people hate so MuseScore should incorporate those as well, because every notation app ought to do those too. Can't pick and choose, after all.

This is how innovation is murdered in its crib and homogenization is institutionalized.

Why not judge Musescore on its own merits?

EDIT: I need to clarify. I don't disagree that Musescore is better with the changes made and that certain QOL improvements may make it better, I disagree with the idea that projecting one's idea of 'normal' as an absolute truth is anything but egocentrism. By viewing reality through that very narrow lens one devalues everything that does not conform as less valuable, regardless of what else it offers. Gearspace is full of that mindset, and it sucks the fun out of everything there too.

Just to illustrate my point, put Staffpad next to Finale, Dorico and Sibelius. If we identify all the things Staffpad doesn't do from those three, it should be an awful piece of software.

But it's not. It's arguably better than all of those in certain ways, for certain purposes.

#triggered


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## benwiggy (Aug 30, 2022)

I think you misunderstand: I'm not talking about the way the software works or the 'identity' of the software: I'm talking about whether it can produce established conventions of music notation, which is, after all, its defined job.

Like any form of communication, we have to agree on what is written, how it's written and what we mean by it, in order to communicate effectively. Music notation is a written language.

If MS Word didn't align paragraphs properly, or if it changed the fonts randomly, it might be 'innovative', but it's more likely that people just wouldn't want to use it.

Of course every different app has its strengths and weaknesses, and variety is to be welcomed. But if it can't drive screws, it's not a very good screwdriver.

If it's not clear: I think that MuseScore's efforts to improve its engraving are a good thing, which will raise the bar for what commercial software will have to offer.


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## Jett Hitt (Oct 1, 2022)

This seems pretty promising:


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## EvilDragon (Oct 3, 2022)

"New All, Forever".

Gotta love Tantacrul.


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## EvilDragon (Oct 3, 2022)

rudi said:


> it now includes VST3 support, but not earlier versions.


Including VST2 will not be possible because VST2 license is not compatible with open source software (unless it's dual licensed, but either way VST2 SDK availability was rescinded in Aug 2018).


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## Markrs (Oct 3, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> This seems pretty promising:



Is that using a new audio engine? I played it on the web browser and the audio engine sounded better than I remember.


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## aaronventure (Oct 3, 2022)

Markrs said:


> Is that using a new audio engine? I played it on the web browser and the audio engine sounded better than I remember.


Yes, but that'll be available on release, it's not in the current alpha.


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## I like music (Oct 3, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> This seems pretty promising:



That using their own playback engine?


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## Jett Hitt (Oct 3, 2022)

I like music said:


> That using their own playback engine?


As I understand it--and this comes from the rumor mill--David William Hearn of StaffPad created a bespoke library for Musescore 4, and this is it with StaffPad's playback engine onboard. There is precious little information about it available, but it sounds like release is right around the corner, so we shouldn't have to wait too long.


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## I like music (Oct 3, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> As I understand it--and this comes from the rumor mill--David William Hearn of StaffPad created a bespoke library for Musescore 4, and this is it with StaffPad's playback engine onboard. There is precious little information about it available, but it sounds like release is right around the corner, so we shouldn't have to wait too long.


Superb! Thank you!


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## Maarten (Oct 3, 2022)

From within the latest alpha MuseScore there is an unlisted YouTube link to 
MuseScore 4 - Installing Our FREE Orchestral Plugin: Muse Sounds​
But beware, no download of this MuseSounds plugin yet. Looks promising though.


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## odod (Oct 3, 2022)

damn, Tantacrul and MS4 team are really working hard for this! awemazing work


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## Jett Hitt (Oct 3, 2022)

Wow, this looks brilliant! I saw the StaffPad icon in the hub. It would be amazing if we could use those libraries with Musescore as well, but I know that is too good to be true.


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## Markrs (Oct 3, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Wow, this looks brilliant! I saw the StaffPad icon in the hub. It would be amazing if we could use those libraries with Musescore as well, but I know that is too good to be true.


I noticed that as well, but how would they know you own it, especially on iOS as Apple are cagey with the data they share add to who buys apps on the app store?

I wouldn't want to buy them twice. Overall this looks like a massive development and one that will make Musescore a serious tool for composition rather than just engraving.


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## Jett Hitt (Oct 3, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I noticed that as well, but how would they know you own it, especially on iOS as Apple are cagey with the data they share add to who buys apps on the app store?
> 
> I wouldn't want to buy them twice. Overall this looks like a massive development and I've that will make Musescore a serious tool for composition rather than just engraving.


I can't imagine how this would/will work. I have StaffPad on my M1, but I can't begin to fathom how the Musehub could determine that I own it. Apple is nasty about such things. Clearly their machine has recognized it, however, as that is a Mac in the video.


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## Markrs (Oct 3, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I can't imagine how this would/will work. I have StaffPad on my M1, but I can't begin to fathom how the Musehub could determine that I own it. Apple is nasty about such things. Clearly their machine has recognized it, however, as that is a Mac in the video.


It would get even more difficult if your main machine is Windows I would imagine, but I do live on hope as it would be amazing to have my Staffpad libraries in Musescore 🤞🏻


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## ZenBYD (Oct 3, 2022)

ah... the whole staffpad musescore acquisition starts to make sense now... if musescore got DWH to make a library and put the staffpad engine and effects and elements in... then they just threw a grenade under dorico and sibelius.

the hub looks staffpad designed... there's no way that was made by the musescore people. it looks sexy yet simple... there is a lot of similarity with the staffpad store.

very clever. will look forward to this.


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## Markrs (Oct 3, 2022)

The idea that we get a Staffpad engine with not only custom Musescore libraries but also Staffpad 3rd party libraries and VST3 support, that would be amazing and truly take things next level.


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## dcoscina (Oct 3, 2022)

Markrs said:


> I noticed that as well, but how would they know you own it, especially on iOS as Apple are cagey with the data they share add to who buys apps on the app store?
> 
> I wouldn't want to buy them twice. Overall this looks like a massive development and I've that will make Musescore a serious tool for composition rather than just engraving.


It is likely that MuseScore will be able to recognize file formats of StaffPad on your computer. If we can use our StaffPad Third-party libraries on MuseScore 4, that would be a significant motivation to compose in that app moving forward. Or, at the very least, exporting XML from Dorico to MS4 to have nicer playback.


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## Jett Hitt (Oct 3, 2022)

If this thing works like StaffPad, it will be curtains for Dorico and Sibelius. (I think Finale is already dead despite still being the industry standard.) I own all of them. 25 years ago all we wanted was better playback, and none of the big three has bothered to step up to the task. Things were ok with Noteperformer, but you couldn’t use it for a final product. When Dorico came out, I really thought it would be the ticket, but they missed the boat. Using expression maps in Dorico is so tedious that I might as well just use my DAW. Factor in that Musescore is free, and you have the makings for Armageddon for the other companies.


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## I like music (Oct 3, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> If this thing works like StaffPad, it will be curtains for Dorico and Sibelius. (I think Finale is already dead despite still being the industry standard.) I own all of them. 25 years ago all we wanted was better playback, and none of the big three has bothered to step up to the task. Things were ok with Noteperformer, but you couldn’t use it for a final product. When Dorico came out, I really thought it would be the ticket, but they missed the boat. Using expression maps in Dorico is so tedious that I might as well just use my DAW. Factor in that Musescore is free, and you have the makings for Armageddon for the other companies.


Wait, what are we saying here. Genuine question because I think I've missed some connection.

Are we saying there's a prospect that you could get Staffpad type functionality on, say, an iPad but within Musescore? As in, write stuff in using a pen? 

I'd definitely buy a tablet if that were the case...

Really curious now to hear their new playback engine. I wonder if it has any noteperformer-esque qualities...


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## Jett Hitt (Oct 3, 2022)

I like music said:


> Wait, what are we saying here. Genuine question because I think I've missed some connection.
> 
> Are we saying there's a prospect that you could get Staffpad type functionality on, say, an iPad but within Musescore? As in, write stuff in using a pen?
> 
> ...


No, I don’t think it will work on a tablet. We already have StaffPad for that.


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## I like music (Oct 3, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> No, I don’t think it will work on a tablet. We already have StaffPad for that.


Ah, I see. I had imagined that they might through some integration basically mash the two together. In any case, Musescore updates look exciting. Keen to try them out once it is all out.


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## dcoscina (Oct 3, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> If this thing works like StaffPad, it will be curtains for Dorico and Sibelius. (I think Finale is already dead despite still being the industry standard.) I own all of them. 25 years ago all we wanted was better playback, and none of the big three has bothered to step up to the task. Things were ok with Noteperformer, but you couldn’t use it for a final product. When Dorico came out, I really thought it would be the ticket, but they missed the boat. Using expression maps in Dorico is so tedious that I might as well just use my DAW. Factor in that Musescore is free, and you have the makings for Armageddon for the other companies.


I doubt MuseScore is going to possess the same level of engraving options that Finale, Sibelius and Dorico have. Pretty sure there's room for everyone. But I'm very excited to see what MuseScore is like when using bespoke sounds or, even better, StaffPad libraries. 

Personally, I'm faster composing in Dorico now than in StaffPad. I don't think I will be chucking it anytime soon for MuseScore especially when it comes to film scoring.


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## Jett Hitt (Oct 3, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> I doubt MuseScore is going to possess the same level of engraving options that Finale, Sibelius and Dorico have. Pretty sure there's room for everyone. But I'm very excited to see what MuseScore is like when using bespoke sounds or, even better, StaffPad libraries.
> 
> Personally, I'm faster composing in Dorico now than in StaffPad. I don't think I will be chucking it anytime soon for MuseScore especially when it comes to film scoring.


Oh, I don’t expect the engraving options to be nearly as advanced, but I think that the majority of users don’t require the same level of engraving as you and I. The problem is what this means for Dorico and Sibelius’ bottom line.


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## Markrs (Oct 3, 2022)

Of course what could help Dorico or Sibelius is that the developer of Noteperformer had been hinting at big improvements for Noteperformer 4, though I believe that is physically modelled Instruments which can struggle to get the right level of realism.


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## José Herring (Oct 3, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Oh, I don’t expect the engraving options to be nearly as advanced, but I think that the majority of users don’t require the same level of engraving as you and I. The problem is what this means for Dorico and Sibelius’ bottom line.


I generally think the high level engraving options are kind of overkill for everybody unless you want to self publish your own concert works. Which isn't a bad idea really but I've never been interested in it. 
The thing that is great about "middle of the road" programs like Musicscore is they are great for printing out parts for recording sessions. I use to use Encore for that and Musicscore now has surpassed it. 
Dorico is great and it's a next level program. I plan on getting and learning it but in the mean time, Musicscore4 is free!


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## dcoscina (Oct 3, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> Oh, I don’t expect the engraving options to be nearly as advanced, but I think that the majority of users don’t require the same level of engraving as you and I. The problem is what this means for Dorico and Sibelius’ bottom line.


Yes Muse is very aggressively going after this market and even Musescore 3 was pretty nice. I used to use it because I liked the copy paste score to document features


José Herring said:


> I generally think the high level engraving options are kind of overkill for everybody unless you want to self publish your own concert works. Which isn't a bad idea really but I've never been interested in it.
> The thing that is great about "middle of the road" programs like Musicscore is they are great for printing out parts for recording sessions. I use to use Encore for that and Musicscore now has surpassed it.
> Dorico is great and it's a next level program. I plan on getting and learning it but in the mean time, Musicscore4 is free!


I had to do up a couple of clarinet charts for a film composer last month and Dorico made it easy and professional looking. I'm sure MuseScore is fine (I've used it on ver 3 extensively) but I love how intuitive Dorico is at least now that I've got a bunch of short cuts mapped out. I barely use the mouse anymore.


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## José Herring (Oct 3, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> Yes Muse is very aggressively going after this market and even Musescore 3 was pretty nice. I used to use it because I liked the copy paste score to document features
> 
> I had to do up a couple of clarinet charts for a film composer last month and Dorico made it easy and professional looking. I'm sure MuseScore is fine (I've used it on ver 3 extensively) but I love how intuitive Dorico is at least now that I've got a bunch of short cuts mapped out. I barely use the mouse anymore.


I'm a bit of a noob on notation programs. I went straight from pencil and paper to a DAW. I used Musicscore version 2 or even 1 for a choir piece I did that was sung live. I liked it a lot. 
Dorico is my eventual destination. It's only going to get better. For now though I want to get fully good at Musicscore so that the transition to a full on notation program like Dorico isn't as painful as it was when I tried the Dorico4 free trail.


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## dcoscina (Oct 3, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I'm a bit of a noob on notation programs. I went straight from pencil and paper to a DAW. I used Musicscore version 2 or even 1 for a choir piece I did that was sung live. I liked it a lot.
> Dorico is my eventual destination. It's only going to get better. For now though I want to get fully good at Musicscore so that the transition to a full on notation program like Dorico isn't as painful as it was when I tried the Dorico4 free trail.


Well Dorico and MuseScore do things differently. I had some growing pains coming from Sibelius but I just kept working at Dorico and I’m continually getting better.


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## youngpokie (Oct 3, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I can't begin to fathom how the Musehub could determine that I own it


Maybe it can be done via the central account and/or some kind of Musescore ID to register products? The whole thing does start looking like a possible ecosystem and it would be such a shame if they can't find a way...


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## Jett Hitt (Oct 3, 2022)

youngpokie said:


> Maybe it can be done via the central account and/or some kind of Musescore ID to register products? The whole thing does start looking like a possible ecosystem and it would be such a shame if they can't find a way...


Hear! Hear!


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## mopsiflopsi (Oct 4, 2022)

youngpokie said:


> Maybe it can be done via the central account and/or some kind of Musescore ID to register products? The whole thing does start looking like a possible ecosystem and it would be such a shame if they can't find a way...


StaffPad could maybe issue a coupon (once per Apple ID) through the app which could then be redeemed on Musescore end as proof of ownership.


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## sundrowned (Oct 4, 2022)

I think any expectation that 3rd party staffpad libraries will work in musescore is over optimistic. For a start you can follow most of the development of musescore on the forum and there's no indication of it. The plans are the musesounds library and then adding further features to musescore4 like midi mapping and pianoroll and a whole host of other features. That timeline I would expect to take a few years. 

And that's not even getting into the licencing issues.


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## Markrs (Oct 5, 2022)

sundrowned said:


> I think any expectation that 3rd party staffpad libraries will work in musescore is over optimistic. For a start you can follow most of the development of musescore on the forum and there's no indication of it. The plans are the musesounds library and then adding further features to musescore4 like midi mapping and pianoroll and a whole host of other features. That timeline I would expect to take a few years.
> 
> And that's not even getting into the licencing issues.


I agree it is unlikely to be honest, especially factoring sample library license negotiations that would probably be needed for this to happen. Especially given the VST 3 support which shows the regular sample libraries to be used. However it would be fantastic if it did have those Staffpad 3rd libraries.


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## ssnowe (Oct 5, 2022)

Heres hoping Musescore has high quality libraries that run on Linux. I dumped Windows a long time ago and have gotten tired of the Apple tax.


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## d.healey (Oct 5, 2022)

ssnowe said:


> Heres hoping Musescore has high quality libraries that run on Linux. I dumped Windows a long time ago and have gotten tired of the Apple tax.


I think you'll be able to use any VST3 you want with it.


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## dcoscina (Oct 5, 2022)

Yes you can already use VST libraries. They aren’t integrated as tightly as the Muse Orch will be however


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## soundofmaw (Oct 16, 2022)

"*Announcing Musescore 4!*" (Unlisted Video) - I debated whether to post this as I don't like spoiling surprises but as I saw this on one of their own announcement pages already (a user had posted a link to it) I figured it wouldn't hurt to share here as well...



I hear the beta is days away from release (but nothing is certain on that) and we'll get to try out Musesounds. I have to admit I'm pretty excited to test drive it, even though I'm a fairly dedicated Dorico user.

Michael


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## mopsiflopsi (Oct 16, 2022)

What’s the status on articulation mapping? The last time I checked out the alpha, a stac note just played whatever patch was loaded in the vst but shorter. 
Does Muse Orch have articulation sensitivity built-in?


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## sundrowned (Oct 16, 2022)

There aren't any details out yet but afaik the musesound orchestra is automatically mapped. (like staffpad) Custom vst mapping isn't implemented yet but it's on the development timeline.


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## soundofmaw (Oct 22, 2022)

Musescore Beta & Muse Sounds are now available…









MuseScore 4 Update: About the Beta Release...


Hey everyone, It is with great regret and sadness that I deliver this announcement today: there will be no beta. Why has this happened? The simple answer is:…




musescore.org


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## I like music (Oct 23, 2022)

[EDIT] Ignore. Managed to find all the sounds. Looking forward to it!


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## benwiggy (Oct 23, 2022)

That's a really weak joke for a development announcement.


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## dcoscina (Oct 23, 2022)

I worked a little bit with it last night. Promising but, since it's a Beta, very buggy...


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## YaniDee (Oct 24, 2022)

I don't ususally have any problems installing / running programs. I installed and can run Musescore 4, but I can't get Muse Hub to even open.. I'm on a PC using Win 10..any one with similar issues, or a solution?


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## benwiggy (Oct 25, 2022)

YaniDee said:


> any one with similar issues, or a solution?


Well, it is beta software. Your best course is to report the issue.


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## YaniDee (Oct 25, 2022)

benwiggy said:


> Well, it is beta software. Your best course is to report the issue.


I did..I'll be patient and wait for a stable release.


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## Tantacrul (Nov 2, 2022)

soundofmaw said:


> "*Announcing Musescore 4!*" (Unlisted Video) - I debated whether to post this as I don't like spoiling surprises but as I saw this on one of their own announcement pages already (a user had posted a link to it) I figured it wouldn't hurt to share here as well...



Don't worry about it. The video is only unlisted because we don't want to spread news too far about the beta release (we have more than enough testers as I'm sure you can imagine!). We'll make the video public once the release proper arrives. If we wanted to keep things under wraps we wouldn't have shared it from within the app itself!


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## pinki (Nov 2, 2022)

dcoscina said:


> I worked a little bit with it last night. Promising but, since it's a Beta, very buggy...



I mean "wow". That's extraordinary. Well done to you and of course to Tantacrul for bringing this in to the world. For free..there must be a catch.


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## soundofmaw (Nov 2, 2022)

Tantacrul said:


> Don't worry about it. The video is only unlisted because we don't want to spread news too far about the beta release (we have more than enough testers as I'm sure you can imagine!). We'll make the video public once the release proper arrives. If we wanted to keep things under wraps we wouldn't have shared it from within the app itself!


Well, now I can sleep with a clean conscience. Nice work on the product, Tantacrul. I believe you have the creative vision to take Musescore to the level we would all like to see it. I’m impressed already.

Plus, anybody that can make “janky” YouTube videos has what it takes to make great music software. I mean that - I laughed out loud and possibly emitted tears. I only reserve that kind of response for something really well done 😂


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