# Why use StaffPad



## Jacob Moss

I am so tired of hearing about how "the keyboard input method is faster". Certainly that is true--the fastest input method is a midi piano and a keyboard, and the best playback will almost certainly be through a DAW (that is the chief purpose of a DAW). Although I love the speed of StaffPad input and I think considering it plays back from a Surface Pro or an iPad the playback is remarkable, this however, isn't what draws me to StaffPad. I write with StaffPad because it is the most intuitive and creative method for how I think of music. Because the software removes the headaches of the DAW and the pen draws me closer to my intuition the ideas flow more smoothly for me, which in the end translates to my writing better music faster than any other method.

I understand this is not the case with everyone and that there are lots of things that can and will be improved about the software, but I think the debate around the best playback and the fastest input is ultimately moot if the chief goal is to find the most inspiring method for creating music for you.


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## rudi

Jacob Moss said:


> ...
> I understand this is not the case with everyone and that there are lots of things that can and will be improved about the software, but I think the debate around the best playback and the fastest input is ultimately moot if the chief goal is to find the most inspiring method for creating music for you.



Exactly it's about the workflow that suits the individual best.

I used Cubase in its many incarnations for several decades until. I came across REAPER and after a period of acclimatisation, and some customisations, it suits my workflow much better. Cubase is great but its interface is so overloaded with menus, sub-menus, screens, panels, toolbars, editors, sub-editors, racks etc. that if feels as if I am trying to paint a room through a letterbox. 

We live in a very fortunate time when there is so much choice to satisfy different workflows and preferences. There is also a degree of convergence taking place with most DAW and notation programmes offering similar functionality but in their own way. Staffpad is a great example of that trend.


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## ism

rudi said:


> that if feels as if I am trying to paint a room through a letterbox.


That’s a great phrase for how technology mediates a lot of things.


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## dcoscina

Jacob Moss said:


> I am so tired of hearing about how "the keyboard input method is faster". Certainly that is true--the fastest input method is a midi piano and a keyboard, and the best playback will almost certainly be through a DAW (that is the chief purpose of a DAW). Although I love the speed of StaffPad input and I think considering it plays back from a Surface Pro or an iPad the playback is remarkable. This isn't what draws me to StaffPad however. I write with StaffPad because it is the most intuitive and creative method for how I think of music. Because the software removes the headaches of the DAW and the pen draws me closer to my intuition the ideas flow more smoothly for me, which in the end translates to my writing better music faster than any other method.
> 
> I understand this is not the case with everyone and that there are lots of things that can and will be improved about the software, but I think the debate around the best playback and the fastest input is ultimately moot if the chief goal is to find the most inspiring method for creating music for you.


It also makes the composer much more cognizant about phrasing, ranges, things like that. I've heard so many cases where someone writes something in a DAW that would be impossible to perform on a real instrument or else it's well outside the acceptable range of the instrument. Or the voice leading is clunky. Whereas writing in notation, you are confronted with the realities of these basic music principles.


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## paularthur

Do you have the cinesamples pack with staff pad?


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## dcoscina

paularthur said:


> Do you have the cinesamples pack with staff pad?


There are CineSamples libraries available for StaffPad. CineStrings, CineBrass, CineWinds, CinePiano, CineHarp, CinePerc, Tina Guo Cello, VOXOS, CineStrings Solo etc. I have them all. CineBrass, CinePerc and CinePerc plus Tina Guo get a lot use from me.


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## jonathanparham

dcoscina said:


> There are CineSamples libraries available for StaffPad. CineStrings, CineBrass, CineWinds, CinePiano, CineHarp, CinePerc, Tina Guo Cello, VOXOS, CineStrings Solo etc. I have them all. CineBrass, CinePerc and CinePerc plus Tina Guo get a lot use from me.


jealous lol


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## jonathanparham

rudi said:


> Exactly it's about the workflow that suits the individual best.
> 
> We live in a very fortunate time when there is so much choice to satisfy different workflows and preferences. There is also a degree of convergence taking place with most DAW and notation programmes offering similar functionality but in their own way. Staffpad is a great example of that trend.


very much this. It's about what works for your music making. That's why I was commenting in the other musescore thread. I hope there's some healthy competition lol. I gave up on trying to get my VSTs to work nicely in Sibelius a long time ago. I was like I'll just hand sketch the harder stuff, play stuff in, and then program it; before I even mix. Then comes StaffPad and then the added sample libraries this year. I'm like wow just wow.

IMO the Holy Grail would be to write sans piano roll like StaffPad, where articulations are done by notation as opposed to programming, and use any VST I wanted.


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## dcoscina

jonathanparham said:


> very much this. It's about what works for your music making. That's why I was commenting in the other musescore thread. I hope there's some healthy competition lol. I gave up on trying to get my VSTs to work nicely in Seibelius a long time ago. I was like I'll just sketch the harder stuff, play stuff in, and then program it; before I even mix. Then comes StaffPad and then the added sample libraries this year. I'm like wow just wow.
> 
> IMO the Holy Grail would be to write sans piano roll like StaffPad, where articulations are done by notation as opposed to programming, and use any VST I wanted.


Yeah keep the focus on the music and less programming or production


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## paularthur

dcoscina said:


> There are CineSamples libraries available for StaffPad. CineStrings, CineBrass, CineWinds, CinePiano, CineHarp, CinePerc, Tina Guo Cello, VOXOS, CineStrings Solo etc. I have them all. CineBrass, CinePerc and CinePerc plus Tina Guo get a lot use from me.


Awesome set lol. I was wondering if you/I have to re-buy or how does it work if you have them for Kontakt?


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## jonathanparham

paularthur said:


> Awesome set lol. I was wondering if you/I have to re-buy or how does it work if you have them for Kontakt?


you have to buy them for your tablet.


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## Rodney Money

dcoscina said:


> It also makes the composer much more cognizant about phrasing, ranges, things like that. I've heard so many cases where someone writes something in a DAW that would be impossible to perform on a real instrument or else it's well outside the acceptable range of the instrument. Or the voice leading is clunky. Whereas writing in notation, you are confronted with the realities of these basic music principles.


Truth.


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## CatOrchestra

An iPad with a screen protector that gives it a paper feel is a dream for sure

What is the most basic iPad that one could be used to playback a "complete" ensemble without hiccups?

Is it possible to move back and forth on a project between StaffPad and Dorico?


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## dcoscina

The iPad Air3 Is pretty good but even then Some really large pieces would have trouble with it, but that was before v1.1.1. I ended up moving to an 2020 iPad Pro 11” and it handles Staffpad like a champ


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## CatOrchestra

dcoscina said:


> The Air3 and even then some really large pieces would have trouble but that was before v1.1.1. I switch to an 2020 iPad Pro 11” and it handles Staffpad like a champ



Thank you, that sounds good. 

What kind of trouble with you get with the Air3 and how large were they?

I am hoping to be able to move between the Staffpad and Dorico.

A "dream" setup is connecting the iPad Pro to a larger screen with a midi piano- for the occasional write up like that.

StaffPad seems very well lined up when Apple moves to their ARM processors for their other laptops/etc.


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## dcoscina

I had fairly modest size orchestras going but a lot of tutti passages seemed to make the bounce to audio crash the app. But again, this was before v 1.1.1 was released. I got my iPad Pro around the same time so I don't know if it's the improved processor on the Pro or the update or a bit of both. 

You cannot go wrong with the pro. You can hook up peripherals to it and even with a USB-C send HDMI out to a monitor with the ipad Pro. Don't think it's as easy with the Air. Plus, the Air and lower ipads use the Apple Pencil 1 which is a pain to charge. Compared to the Apple Pencil 2 which automatically charges when connected to the iPad. worth it


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## Kent

ism said:


> That’s a great phrase for how technology mediates a lot of things.


AFAIK that phrase originally was used to refer to the process of programming a Roland D110, and it’s stuck with fiddly menu-driven sound creation workflows since.


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## wcreed51

Why does the apple pencil use so much juice? The Surface pen just has 1 AAAA battery which lasts for a year or more.


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## dcoscina

wcreed51 said:


> Why does the apple pencil use so much juice? The Surface pen just has 1 AAAA battery which lasts for a year or more.


Good question. But the Apple Pencil 2 automatically re charges when attached to the Pro.


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## AlexRuger

Just got an iPad Pro and the possibilities of StaffPad is blowing me away. A couple questions for more experienced users of it, though, as I can't find some important info...

1) Can you set up any sort of MIDI Timecode syncing? I.e. can I sync StaffPad with a machine running Pro Tools or Video Slave?
2) Can you export a MIDI file for later editing it in a DAW?

If the answers to both are "yes," I am buying it immediately and perhaps even writing an entire score on it. I've dreamed of being able to write notation with a pencil while producing acceptable mockups, and not losing the ability to easily produce the track in a DAW from there. Would be an absolute game-changer.


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## jonathanparham

AlexRuger said:


> Just got an iPad Pro and the possibilities of StaffPad is blowing me away. A couple questions for more experienced users of it, though, as I can't find some important info...
> 
> 1) Can you set up any sort of MIDI Timecode syncing? I.e. can I sync StaffPad with a machine running Pro Tools or Video Slave?
> 2) Can you export a MIDI file for later editing it in a DAW?
> 
> If the answers to both are "yes," I am buying it immediately and perhaps even writing an entire score on it. I've dreamed of being able to write notation with a pencil while producing acceptable mockups, and not losing the ability to easily produce the track in a DAW from there. Would be an absolute game-changer.


I've done number two. . . wow that sounds. . . lol. I have exported midi and opened it in Pro Tools to continue work.


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## jonnybutter

jonathanparham said:


> I've done number two. . . wow that sounds. . . lol. I have exported midi and opened it in Pro Tools to continue work.



Export has not been flawless for me, but it works better than import. You need to import music .xml flies, not just midi (at least from Logic). 

I don't see any TC support.


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## Giscard Rasquin

For anyone that already uses it, is it possible to write multi-measure rests in one bar for the whole score in Staffpad? That’d probably tip me over to buy it. 
It’s an annoying limitation I’m encountering with Notion


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## jonnybutter

Giscard Rasquin said:


> For anyone that already uses it, is it possible to write multi-measure rests in one bar for the whole score in Staffpad? That’d probably tip me over to buy it.
> It’s an annoying limitation I’m encountering with Notion



This is a feature in Staffpad that really shines. It fills in all the rests for you. I don't know what the breakpoint is, but it also does multi-measure rests for you (in all staves).


I would read all the threads here just to get a feel for its limitations before you buy. It has a lot of great features but also does have limitations. 

It so depends on what you're going to do with it, I think. For writing relatively simple music (like underscore or soundtracks) with a lot of repetition, it is absolutely fantastic. It's super easy and fast to copy and paste, and to transpose. 

If you are doing more modern music, it's not quite so fluid. You can't work atonally, and there are still some glitchy things about the handwriting recognition. I'm on an iPad pro (a new one) and I experience a lot of bugginess. Don't know if it's my device, or iOS, or what, but it can be frustrating.

The good news is that they do update it, so it's getting better and better. The last update noticeably improved some of the handwriting recognition - beams and dots got better for sure.

I think it's a step up from Notion. HTH


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## CatOrchestra

I hope StaffPad for Mac-ARMs will allow for 3rd party VSTs without having to repurchase them, a bit as other notation apps do

It seems Dorico really does want that StaffPad - Dorico movement of notations work well








XML import issues- Staffpad to Dorico


Hi all, I’ve recently discovered the magic of the new Staffpad update for iOS (highly recommend, despite a short learning curve). I am currently trying out the 30 day trial of Dorico and also love it, but am having issues importing .xml from Staffpad to Dorico. It just interprets things very...




www.steinberg.net





StaffPad seems to be in a great position for the future : )


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## jonnybutter

CatOrchestra said:


> It seems Dorico really does want that StaffPad - Dorico movement of notations work well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XML import issues- Staffpad to Dorico
> 
> 
> Hi all, I’ve recently discovered the magic of the new Staffpad update for iOS (highly recommend, despite a short learning curve). I am currently trying out the 30 day trial of Dorico and also love it, but am having issues importing .xml from Staffpad to Dorico. It just interprets things very...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.steinberg.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> StaffPad seems to be in a great position for the future : )



Lets hope so! Great to see Daniel S. on the case.


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## giwro

AlexRuger said:


> Just got an iPad Pro and the possibilities of StaffPad is blowing me away. A couple questions for more experienced users of it, though, as I can't find some important info...
> 
> 1) Can you set up any sort of MIDI Timecode syncing? I.e. can I sync StaffPad with a machine running Pro Tools or Video Slave?
> 2) Can you export a MIDI file for later editing it in a DAW?
> 
> If the answers to both are "yes," I am buying it immediately and perhaps even writing an entire score on it. I've dreamed of being able to write notation with a pencil while producing acceptable mockups, and not losing the ability to easily produce the track in a DAW from there. Would be an absolute game-changer.



I’ve both imported and exported a tempo map, and it worked flawlessly. In one case, I wrote in Dorico using BBCSO Core... I wanted a little more richness to the strings, so I exported to XML, exported the tempo map. Imported xml into StaffPad, imported the tempo map to apply to the score. Fixed a few minor things that didn’t import well notation-wise, then proceeded to export a render from both Berlin strings and Spitfire... everything synced up in the DAW like a charm...

I’ve not tried a midi export yet, but it does do it (and I assume would work just fine)


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## jonnybutter

giwro said:


> I’ve both imported and exported a tempo map, and it worked flawlessly. In one case, I wrote in Dorico using BBCSO Core... I wanted a little more richness to the strings, so I exported to XML, exported the tempo map. Imported xml into StaffPad, imported the tempo map to apply to the score. Fixed a few minor things that didn’t import well notation-wise, then proceeded to export a render from both Berlin strings and Spitfire... everything synced up in the DAW like a charm...
> 
> I’ve not tried a midi export yet, but it does do it (and I assume would work just fine)



Tempo map and MTC aren't quite the same thing are they (even if the former does ultimately run on MTC)? Good to know that it works w/Dorico though. Which DAW?


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## jonnybutter

BTW, I am glad Staffpad is working so well for others, but I am having real problems with it. It seems that every new file I create is corrupted now! Lots of basic things don't work as expected. Any advice from anyone who has had similar problems? I'm on a new iPad Pro with the latest iOS and latest Staffpad. I'm pretty new to iOS. Is it worth doing to reinstall the app?


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## wcreed51

CatOrchestra said:


> I hope StaffPad for Mac-ARMs will allow for 3rd party VSTs without having to repurchase them, a bit as other notation apps do



Re-purchasing is a feature of the Apple app store; nothing to do with the 3rd party vendors


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## CatOrchestra

wcreed51 said:


> Re-purchasing is a feature of the Apple app store; nothing to do with the 3rd party vendors



True, I was thinking incorrectly.

I hope that macOS ARM will be open enough so we can use our VSTs across applications, so we can have our SA/etc VSTs working properly for all of our macOS ARM apps.


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## giwro

jonnybutter said:


> Tempo map and MTC aren't quite the same thing are they (even if the former does ultimately run on MTC)? Good to know that it works w/Dorico though. Which DAW?



I’m an outlier when it comes to DAWs - N-Track 9


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## jonnybutter

giwro said:


> I’m an outlier when it comes to DAWs - N-Track 9



Interesting! Do you spend a lot of time in the DAW, or more in Dorico, etc? Just curious, since I had never heard of N-Track 9 before. I thought I knew them all, but obviously not!


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## giwro

jonnybutter said:


> Interesting! Do you spend a lot of time in the DAW, or more in Dorico, etc? Just curious, since I had never heard of N-Track 9 before. I thought I knew them all, but obviously not!



Well, I’m a notation guy, so I spend as little time as I can in a DAW

That said, the things I did with the imported stems were pretty minor - I placed the different strings in their places (pan and distance) with the positioner in Altiverb, tweaked some amplitude in spots just a little (especially the closing decrescendo). On occasion I will export the MIDI from notation and do the work in the DAW if I can’t get the controllers to behave in Dorico like I want. Dorico does allow adjusting CC data, but that’s still in the early stages yet.

I got started with N-Track years ago - it was prone to crash back then, (v4?). Now a good 8-10 years on, its remarkably stable, and one of the hidden gems of the DAW world (at least for me).


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## Giscard Rasquin

jonnybutter said:


> This is a feature in Staffpad that really shines. It fills in all the rests for you. I don't know what the breakpoint is, but it also does multi-measure rests for you (in all staves).
> 
> 
> I would read all the threads here just to get a feel for its limitations before you buy. It has a lot of great features but also does have limitations.
> 
> It so depends on what you're going to do with it, I think. For writing relatively simple music (like underscore or soundtracks) with a lot of repetition, it is absolutely fantastic. It's super easy and fast to copy and paste, and to transpose.
> 
> If you are doing more modern music, it's not quite so fluid. You can't work atonally, and there are still some glitchy things about the handwriting recognition. I'm on an iPad pro (a new one) and I experience a lot of bugginess. Don't know if it's my device, or iOS, or what, but it can be frustrating.
> 
> The good news is that they do update it, so it's getting better and better. The last update noticeably improved some of the handwriting recognition - beams and dots got better for sure.
> 
> I think it's a step up from Notion. HTH



Thanks! Will pick it up then


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## jonnybutter

giwro said:


> Well, I’m a notation guy, so I spend as little time as I can in a DAW
> 
> That said, the things I did with the imported stems were pretty minor - I placed the different strings in their places (pan and distance) with the positioner in Altiverb, tweaked some amplitude in spots just a little (especially the closing decrescendo). On occasion I will export the MIDI from notation and do the work in the DAW if I can’t get the controllers to behave in Dorico like I want. Dorico does allow adjusting CC data, but that’s still in the early stages yet.
> 
> I got started with N-Track years ago - it was prone to crash back then, (v4?). Now a good 8-10 years on, its remarkably stable, and one of the hidden gems of the DAW world (at least for me).




Thanks Jonathan. Always good to know about another cross platform DAW. Cheers


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## jonnybutter

Giscard Rasquin said:


> Thanks! Will pick it up then



Worth keeping in mind that this works on the *printed scores* and *Reader*, not in the working environment. I don't know why you'd need them in the working environment anyway, but just so you know!


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## Giscard Rasquin

jonnybutter said:


> Worth keeping in mind that this works on the *printed scores* and *Reader*, not in the working environment. I don't know why you'd need them in the working environment anyway, but just so you know!


Thanks! Much appreciated 😃


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## Gene Pool

jonnybutter said:


> You can't work atonally...




In what way does it limit that?


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## jonnybutter

Gene Pool said:


> In what way does it limit that?



We already had a whole discussion about this. In Staffpad, you have to be in a key. No sharps and flats is still a key (C major or A minor). Just think about it.

For example, when you edit notes and drag up or down, you are constrained to whatever key you are in. We all agreed that the best solution would be some sort of modifier - a button or whatever (I say a latching one!) that would let you drag chromatically. That way, you could be in a key but edit chromatically - although I think a true atonal mode would be good to have.

There is a reason all the major notation apps (Finale, Dorico, etc) allow you to work atonally. Staffpad should too, and they said this feature is coming.


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## Steve Martin

Has anybody tried creating a score in Sibelius, exporting it as an xml, and opening it in StaffPad using the great libraries such as Cinescore, OT etc that are offered, for playback?


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## giwro

Steve Martin said:


> Has anybody tried creating a score in Sibelius, exporting it as an xml, and opening it in StaffPad using the great libraries such as Cinescore, OT etc that are offered, for playback?



Not inSibelius, but I’ve done it with both Finale and Dorico, so I doubt it would be much different with Sib. You will likely have to fix a few things that import incorrectly or just downright refuse to import, but it works pretty well.


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## brek

jonnybutter said:


> BTW, I am glad Staffpad is working so well for others, but I am having real problems with it. It seems that every new file I create is corrupted now! Lots of basic things don't work as expected. Any advice from anyone who has had similar problems? I'm on a new iPad Pro with the latest iOS and latest Staffpad. I'm pretty new to iOS. Is it worth doing to reinstall the app?



Same here. I have had this since it relaunched in February, watched all the videos and tips, spent at least 40 hours inside the app... and still actually writing anything is an exercise in frustration. Even simple things like a measure of 8th notes sometimes takes _dozens_ of attempts for it to simply accept the notes (and then you still have to get it to accept dynamics, accidentals, articulations...). 


I have lost several projects recently due to file corruption - open an existing project and where previously there were notes and music and all that, now it is just a blank page. Staffpad support has been responsive and think they will have this fixed in an upcoming update. I would tend to blame iOS obfuscation of a file system, but I digress. I am on the OG iPad Pro, so thought it may be due to my hardware not being the latest and greatest.

That said, when it works, it's great. I love being able to lounge on the couch and sketch out short little ideas. I shudder to think about attempting to work on anything more than the most basic sketch. Great to hear how well it is working for some of you, though.


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## Gene Pool

jonnybutter said:


> We already had a whole discussion about this. In Staffpad, you have to be in a key. No sharps and flats is still a key (C major or A minor). Just think about it.
> 
> For example, when you edit notes and drag up or down, you are constrained to whatever key you are in. We all agreed that the best solution would be some sort of modifier - a button or whatever (I say a latching one!) that would let you drag chromatically. That way, you could be in a key but edit chromatically - although I think a true atonal mode would be good to have.
> 
> There is a reason all the major notation apps (Finale, Dorico, etc) allow you to work atonally. Staffpad should too, and they said this feature is coming.



Common knowledge, but one is still not prevented from composing atonal music in SP, which is what your original statement implies, hence my inquiry. The feature request for keyless notation is obviously quite correct—and keyless notation does not mean that you're necessarily writing atonal music by any stretch—but that is apart from whether atonal music can be composed in SP. It's a notation and convenience issue, not a composing one.
____________________

EDIT: To put it another way, I think it's a matter of what you meant versus what I _thought_ you meant. My mistake.


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## jonnybutter

Gene Pool said:


> ____________________
> 
> EDIT: To put it another way, I think it's a matter of what you meant versus what I _thought_ you meant. My mistake.



I think I see what you mean. Yes, you can write not-in-a-key. But it's not very convenient. The whole idea is convenience, at least for me. Otherwise I can just sketch on paper like always and play the music into my DAW. If I want to edit the music from there, I can either edit MIDI or on the scoring section (which is pretty good in Logic). I want to just drag notes around chromatically!


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## jonnybutter

brek said:


> Same here. I have had this since it relaunched in February, watched all the videos and tips, spent at least 40 hours inside the app... and still actually writing anything is an exercise in frustration. Even simple things like a measure of 8th notes sometimes takes _dozens_ of attempts for it to simply accept the notes (and then you still have to get it to accept dynamics, accidentals, articulations...).
> 
> 
> I have lost several projects recently due to file corruption - open an existing project and where previously there were notes and music and all that, now it is just a blank page. Staffpad support has been responsive and think they will have this fixed in an upcoming update. I would tend to blame iOS obfuscation of a file system, but I digress. I am on the OG iPad Pro, so thought it may be due to my hardware not being the latest and greatest.
> 
> That said, when it works, it's great. I love being able to lounge on the couch and sketch out short little ideas. I shudder to think about attempting to work on anything more than the most basic sketch. Great to hear how well it is working for some of you, though.




I feel your pain. It seems like the app is *almost there*, but it's that last few cm that make it so frustrating You have the same problems I do with corrupted files. I also get a lot of inconsistent behavior generally. As I said, I have a new iPad Pro, so it shouldn't be the hardware.

Ah well, it will get better.


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