# Best Practices For Studio Placement



## stillcd (Jan 1, 2014)

Hello all,

I wanted to get some advice regarding the placement of a workstation in a home studio. My wife and I just purchased a house and the room that I will be using for my composing studio measures 10'x14'. 

Initially, I put my desk along one of the longer walls, but after some research, I see that many studios are set up along a shorter wall in a "shoebox" kind of setup. I'm curious to see what this community has to say about this concept? I'm sure either setup could work, but I'm sure that acoustic treatment will vary depending on which wall it's set up on. I want to know which setup will lead to the best possible sound, and be easier to treat. 

A couple of additional notes, one of the 10 foot walls has a short halway entrance about 3 or 4 feet long and 3 feet wide, which leads to the door to the studio. The other 10 foot wall has a window dead center on the wall. I was considering positioning my equipment so that the back of my desk is in front of the window, and spaced a few feet from the wall/window. Each studio monitor (yamaha HS80M) would end up on either side of the window. Of course, I will treat the room with a mixture of DIY owens corning 703 4" panels and diffusion. And I'll cover the window with some heavy curtains and maybe fill it with additional acoustic insulation. I'll probably throw a couch in there too,eventually, to help with treatment. 

My goal for this thread is to not only gain some insight and advice for my particular setup, but I feel that many individuals could benefit from any advice that could be shared. This community has proven to be vital for my growth in developing my skills as a composer. Thanks in advance!

Cody Still


----------



## dannthr (Jan 1, 2014)

Basically, the ideal would be twice as long and twice as wide (and probably twice as high as well).

The reason I don't put my desk across the long wall is because I don't want my rear reflections reaching me before my right and left ones do--also, I can sit myself about a bit past 1/3 of the way through the room.

But basically, your room is just too small.

At least it's not a square.


----------



## Jem7 (Jan 2, 2014)

There is Ethan Winer's articles about acoustics and treatment, room setup. It helped me a lot when I'm setting my room and my panels. 
Check http://realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm 

I recommend you to read all articles if you can


----------



## wst3 (Jan 2, 2014)

just to clarify... your room is approximately 10 ft wide, 14 ft long and 8 ft high (guessing on the last one!) Probably (still guessing) sheetrock on wood studs, standard construction and spacing? Are there windows? Which wall is the door on? Is there a closet?

Short answer... you can build a perfectly usable composer's studio in the space, but it will take some thought. Loudspeaker and listener placement is the best place to start, and you are on the right path, you want to maximize the distance from the back of your head to the back of the room!

Start there. Then worry about room treatment.

The quoted article is not a bad starting point, but it glosses over a lot of important details, so you might want to do so more reading. 

Depending on your skill set, budget, comfort level with tech, patience, and ability to have the room down you may want to hire a consultant. These folks deal with small rooms all the time, and know where the rocks are, which greatly speeds things up.


----------



## stillcd (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the replies. To elaborate, I have a (very rough :D ) drawing I made to more clearly show the room. I know it's a pretty small room. And I know the ideal would be a room about twice the size. But this is all I have to work with at the moment. Here's a link to the drawing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hms5drsxcla4d ... nsions.pdf

Wst3: yes, you pretty much nailed it with your guesses. Hehe. :D 

Thanks everyone! 

Cody


----------



## wst3 (Jan 2, 2014)

Hi Cody... hypothetically speaking, I might have run into this situation once or twice<G>!

You really aren't in all that bad shape, acoustically speaking. No, you can't build a room that goes down to 10 Hz smoothly, and your noise criteria will probably be a little higher than NC20, but I can guarantee you that great work has been done in rooms that didn't meet those criteria.

Best (new) guesses:

Place your workstation so that you are facing the window. As a starting point, place the loudspeakers about two feet from the front wall, and one to two feet from the side walls, making them symmetrical with respect to the side walls. Place your ears about five to six feet back from the line that connects the loudspeakers, and as close to the center of the room as you can.

In this case, symmetry is going to be the first order of business, and getting as much distance from that rear wall will be the second. That alcove is going to play a little havoc with the stereo image, and we want to minimize the contribution.

Things to look for as you listen would include problems with the stereo image (play a mono track and see if the center image wanders as you move your head) and weird low frequency stuff, if it is a problem it will show up as either too much or too little energy at low frequencies.

Beyond that it is difficult to provide suggestions without doing a lot of math, or better yet, being there. But this should get you started...

have fun!


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 2, 2014)

Tere also is some good info on the Genelec website. http://www.genelec.com/faq/acoustical/52-i-am-not-getting-enough-bass/

I would suggest you to spend the time what is needed to find the best Speakers - listener - Position. You will be amazed about how great may be the differences!


----------



## wst3 (Jan 2, 2014)

germancomponist @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> I would suggest you to spend the time what is needed to find the best Speakers - listener - Position. You will be amazed about how great may be the differences!



Truer words were never spoken...

The Genelec article is pretty good. I do take exception to the blanket statement about flush mounting loudspeakers, but that is a debate for another day<G>!

RPG used to provide sofware (Room Optimizer) that worked really well. They have since dropped it, which is a shame. 

C.A.R.A is a tool worth looking at, if you want to take a more analytical approach.

I'm not sure what the status of ETF5/RplusD is, but that is also a good tool.

But really, you should be able to get pretty darned close using your ears, if you don't mind spending the time.


----------



## stillcd (Jan 2, 2014)

Awesome info!

Thanks so much for the advice, Mr Thompson! I will definitely be taking your advice into consideration when designing the room. I was also thinking that facing the window would probably work best. 

As for the alcove in the room, I was thinking that I'd hang a 2'x4' acoustic panel from the ceiling to stop any weird reflections coming from that corner. But I guess I'll just have to play around with it to figure out what would work best. 

I'll be sure to check out all the links that have been sent to me later this evening when I have time to read through them carefully. 

Again, thanks everyone!

Cody


----------



## milesito (Jan 2, 2014)

Is placing sound dampening material on the walls behind the speaker monitors advisable? The genelec article deems to only mention if the walls are flat and untreated right? 

Thx!


----------



## wst3 (Jan 2, 2014)

two quick points...

first, the only way to keep the alcove from being a problem is to close it off. Acoustic panels will likely exaggerate the problem because they will only affect higher frequencies, which tend to be more directional... I mean try it, but don't bet the ranch on it<G>!

Treatment of front and/or rear walls is controversial. It is controversial because there is a fair amount of mythology surrounding the design of small critical listening spaces.

The real answer is that you can treat the front wall to get rid of early reflections, but if you do that you have to do something to prevent the room from becoming too anechoic. And there are more than a couple opinions on that.

Or you can treat the rear wall, but similar caveats apply.

A very smart guy named Dave Moulton (along with others) has suggested a non-environment approach which seems like a very cool idea, but in reality it depends on some very specific performance metrics for the loudspeakers.

Meaning????

Meaning that you are not designing a world class control room, you are designing a composer's work space, and so you maybe don't need to be as concerned. You just need to make sure that the stereo image is stable, and the frequency response is honest enough that the mixes you create translate well to other spaces.

Ironically, having a smaller room with all these limitations can work to your advantage, since a lot of other listening spaces will be similarly constrained.

I hope that makes sense...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 2, 2014)

My room is very similar, except it's about 9'9" x 18.

I have a window in the front too, and I have it set up as Bill suggests except that my small speakers are are farther into the room (I'm not concerned about the distance from the rear).

My room even has a closet in the rear corner exactly like yours, with its door swinging sideways. It's not an issue in my room, but if it is in yours then you can use diffusion in other places.

Ethan Winer says some things that are right and some that...hm.

Bill, thanks for flinching in advance of my posting  and mentioning Moulton. The only thing I'd say is that his ideas work in world class control rooms too! The big difference is that if you're building a room you can figure out the best ratios. But as you know too well, I agree with you that you don't need that kind of a room just to work in.

milesito, yes absolutely, that's the place you do want to soak up the extra reverb.


----------



## gsilbers (Jan 2, 2014)

kind of related. 
but if you want to treat your room i have found that ebay stores have very good deals on acustic panels. these are very inexpensive and not regular foam. one store was even ex auralex employees making their own for much less. 
at first , reading the posts and skimming through music retail companies i saw very high prices and at the end i am making using for my room not a client studio. so for about $100 i got almost my room covered in sections and 8 bass traps. works great. i checked the NRC and it was near to auralex so i said what the heck ill give it a try, and happy i did. i also have carpet so that helps.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 2, 2014)

I personally wouldn't recommend covering your entire room in foam.


----------



## wst3 (Jan 3, 2014)

Wondered when you'd chime in Nick!



Nick Batzdorf said:


> My room is very similar, except it's about 9'9" x 18.



ironically, your room might be potentially more troublesome to treat, since it is nearly 2:1 L:W. By the same token, it is proof that one can do good work in pretty much any space.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> I have a window in the front too, and I have it set up as Bill suggests except that my small speakers are are farther into the room (I'm not concerned about the distance from the rear).



Until you get to about 11 feet from the back of your head to the rear wall it is not a huge issue, and even when you get there it's really only a big deal if you plan to use diffusers on the rear wall.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> My room even has a closet in the rear corner exactly like yours, with its door swinging sideways. It's not an issue in my room, but if it is in yours then you can use diffusion in other places.



Having never tried it I'm suspicious - would diffusion really help to stabilize the stereo field? Trying to figure out how...



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Ethan Winer says some things that are right and some that...hm.



(silence)



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Bill, thanks for flinching in advance of my posting  and mentioning Moulton.



Always happy to make you happy Nick!



Nick Batzdorf said:


> The only thing I'd say is that his ideas work in world class control rooms too!



Never intended to suggest that his ideas don't work in world class facilities. They work anywhere that they are applied correctly... and even sometimes when they aren't, but that's a bit trickier<G>!



Nick Batzdorf said:


> The big difference is that if you're building a room you can figure out the best ratios.



As I work in more spaces, and mess with my nightmare, I'm beginning to think that getting the ratios right is not as important as symmetry and isolation... of course they are all important, and prioritizing is part of the trick that the masters guard!



Nick Batzdorf said:


> But as you know too well, I agree with you that you don't need that kind of a room just to work in.



Definitely falls into the "nice to have" category. If I had to prioritize I'd put the monitor chain (loudspeakers and amplifiers) first, followed VERY CLOSELY by applying them well - getting the locations of the loudspeakers and ears right. Next up would be room symmetry - getting the stereo (or surround) image stable. Then I'd worry about LF problems. Isolation could bubble up in the list if there were a real noise problem (incoming or outgoing), but for the most part the noise is the danged computer(s), and that can be easily addressed by moving them out of the room, or buying an isolation rack.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> milesito, yes absolutely, that's the place you do want to soak up the extra reverb.



It might be perceived as hair splitting, but he absorption on the front wall is not there to soak up the reverberant field... at least that is not the primary function. It is there to minimize the effects of the reflections off the front wall.

The result is the same - it's easier to work in the room, but I think it helps to know why.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 3, 2014)

Bill, I'd say the absorption in the front does both (soak up reverb and stop reflections in the one place they cause a real problem). Which is the bigger fish: reverb or reflections? Dunno.

And for me, getting the computers outta here was a very high priority. I was literally getting a headache when I had only two hard drives with fans going.



> would diffusion really help to stabilize the stereo field?



Probably not the stereo field, but my hunch is that stillcd's room would sound better in general if he put, say, a bookcase in front of his closet (facing his back).

I have lots of stuff in the room behind me, including shelves on the walls (both rear side walls, and also the front of the closet facing my back). My sense is that rear diffusion doesn't stabilize the image, but it does break up funny stuff going on in the room and make it sound less boxy - whatever that really means.

Also, all bets are off about the ratio of my room. For one, the walls and ceiling aren't 100% true - before 1950 it was half the garage, and we live in a canyon so the ground settles unevenly. The house was only a few years old when they converted it, so the settling was probably more extreme at that point, i.e. it started out skewed and has become more so.

For another, I have curved ASC baffles on the front sides (a great concept, by the way). And that built-in closet is covering half the back so it's maybe 3' shorter on one side (the other half is French doors)...there's no fearful symmetry in here.


----------



## Justin Miller (Jan 3, 2014)

If you have the money, my friend Carl could configure your space to a very accurate mixing environments--he's done it with smaller spaces.


----------



## gsilbers (Jan 3, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> I personally wouldn't recommend covering your entire room in foam.



i said sections. but i dont think thats the correct term. splattered around? 
its 25 panels and placed around in patterns.


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 3, 2014)

An old trick: Install approximately 10 cm in front of the front wall of a clothesline from the right wall to the left wall. Now hang thick blankets or other heavy fabric on the leash. 

No joke! One can also build very good absorbers with old clothes. Behind the Molton fabric in my studio much Basotect, wood, but also cotton is installed.


----------



## synapse21 (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm wondering where John Rodd is.


----------



## germancomponist (Jan 3, 2014)

Smile, I will ask him... .


----------



## pkm (Jan 3, 2014)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> An old trick: Install approximately 10 cm in front of the front wall of a clothesline from the right wall to the left wall. Now hang thick blankets or other heavy fabric on the leash.
> 
> No joke! One can also build very good absorbers with old clothes. Behind the Molton fabric in my studio much Basotect, wood, but also cotton is installed.



This can help as long as it's the high frequencies that are a problem. Otherwise, it can make things worse. Same with all of that Auralex foam.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 3, 2014)

What Paul says. Absorbing just the highs screws up the frequency response of the room. I don't care for those rooms that make your voice sound all boomy when you talk.

John Rodd likes having no parallel surfaces, which is one school of thought.


----------



## stillcd (Jan 3, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> Probably not the stereo field, but my hunch is that stillcd's room would sound better in general if he put, say, a bookcase in front of his closet (facing his back).
> 
> I have lots of stuff in the room behind me, including shelves on the walls (both rear side walls, and also the front of the closet facing my back). My sense is that rear diffusion doesn't stabilize the image, but it does break up funny stuff going on in the room and make it sound less boxy - whatever that really means.



Thanks for the info, Nick! I think I'll give the bookshelf idea a try and see how that works. I guess that's an easy way to add some diffusion to the room. :D


----------



## stillcd (Jan 3, 2014)

wst3 @ Thu Jan 02 said:


> two quick points...
> 
> first, the only way to keep the alcove from being a problem is to close it off. Acoustic panels will likely exaggerate the problem because they will only affect higher frequencies, which tend to be more directional... I mean try it, but don't bet the ranch on it<G>!



Ok, I think I will try as suggested to close off the alcove. Perhaps hanging curtains from the ceiling would work?

Cody


----------



## stillcd (Jan 3, 2014)

germancomponist @ Fri Jan 03 said:


> An old trick: Install approximately 10 cm in front of the front wall of a clothesline from the right wall to the left wall. Now hang thick blankets or other heavy fabric on the leash.
> 
> No joke! One can also build very good absorbers with old clothes. Behind the Molton fabric in my studio much Basotect, wood, but also cotton is installed.



The more ideas I have to try, the better! I think I'll try messing around will a lot of these techniques and see how well they work. :D


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Jan 3, 2014)

> I personally wouldn't recommend covering your entire room in foam.
> 
> 
> i said sections. but i dont think thats the correct term. splattered around?
> its 25 panels and placed around in patterns.



That kind of treatment is usually for tracking rooms rather than for monitoring, but whatever works is right!


----------



## milesito (Jan 4, 2014)

Nick and wst3 - thanks for the feedback regarding panels on the speaker wall. I think I'm going to give that a shot. I noticed everything sounds great with depth and in other environments, it seems the reverb is hardly there...perhaps this is one of the reasons why. I have sound proofing on the back wall. I suppose it is time for the front wall next and then maybe above me as well after that.


----------



## paulmatthew (Jan 17, 2014)

For anyone interested , there is another free course relating to this thread at Coursera call Fundamentals of Audio Music Engineering : Part 1 Musical Sound & Electronics . The course description for week 2 :


*Week 2 *

Lesson 1: Reflection and absorption of sound, resonances in air columns, resonances in enclosures and rooms, diffraction and diffusion of sound, reverberation, principles of designing a good music studio

Lesson 2: AC signals, phase and complex numbers, capacitors, inductors, transformers, impedance, AC circuits and AC circuit analysis, simple filters (high-pass, low-pass, band-pass)

Check it out at https://www.coursera.org/course/audiomusicengpart1


----------

