# Powell's HTTYD 2- astonishing!



## dcoscina (Jun 13, 2014)

I really don't have the words to express the sophistication, detail, development of ideas and orchestral fireworks Powell has imbued into his sequel score to How to Train Your Dragon. The writing for the choir is inspired and, to me, this plays more like a modern tone poem than a film score.

I've listened through several times and his new themes are terrific. Very English inspired (naturally). The orchestration is nothing short of amazing and I actually find it hard to believe this music was composed on Logic X only because it's so varied and complex. Lots of pointillism, ritardanos, and expressive moments that I think top the original score. The mixing is better to (Shawn Murphy engineered this time out). I'm certain the orchestra had a joy of a time playing this challenging and heartfelt score.

Powell, for me, is probably the closest thing this generation has to a John Williams- he's got solid thematic development skills combined with some terrific harmonic sensibilities but also grasps the modern music landscape as well. He's a terrific composer and I'm glad that his leave of absence resulted in him finding even more resources in his wheel house to share with the world. 

Yes, I'm gushing but I cannot remember when I listened through to a soundtrack BEFORE seeing the film and getting chills down the spine at the music. It's that good!

Highly recommended.


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## dcoscina (Jun 13, 2014)

I just had to add that the music is fucking amazing. I hear shades of VW, Ravel, Debussy, Elgar, but not lifts, more their stylistic traits. Seriously awesome. The Drago theme is scored for celli playing up in their range which is a technique John BArry used to use but I haven't heard too many modern composers write for them like this. 

Thank you Mr Powell.


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## Jaap (Jun 13, 2014)

Really looking forward to hear it. I just saw a notification from Spotify that it is available for streaming so will give it a good listen this weekend


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## vrocko (Jun 13, 2014)

Here is a short little interview with him talking about scoring the sequel.
http://time.com/2847290/how-to-train-yo ... oundtrack/


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## Guy Rowland (Jun 13, 2014)

Oooh great review. Can't wait but will - have to see the film first.


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## dcoscina (Jun 13, 2014)

If you are fond of British 20th century orchestral music with a touch of French impressionism, you will love this score. 

I didn't think Powell could top his original score but this is better in almost every way.


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## Symfoniq (Jun 13, 2014)

dcoscina @ Fri Jun 13 said:


> If you are fond of British 20th century orchestral music with a touch of French impressionism, you will love this score.
> 
> I didn't think Powell could top his original score but this is better in almost every way.



Wow, that's high praise. "How to Train Your Dragon" is an amazing score. I'll be picking this up ASAP.


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## Mike Marino (Jun 13, 2014)

Just got home from seeing the film with the family (in 3D). Incredible animation, incredible music! The first HTTYD soundtrack is one of my favorites; this soundtrack is just as good if not better. Wonderfully done and will definitely be purchasing this soundtrack!

- Mike


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## MacQ (Jun 13, 2014)

Did it get a little more love this time at the dub? Mr. Powell's brilliant score got buried quite a bit in the first film.


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## Mike Marino (Jun 13, 2014)

Hey Stu,

Maybe a touch more love from the dub stage. It felt as if there were a few more spots where the music was able to breathe a bit more.....but overall, a little less buried overall than the first.

Mike


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## guydoingmusic (Jun 14, 2014)

Just got home from watching.... :shock: the music.... breathtaking.


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## Shubus (Jun 16, 2014)

I depend on Vi-control for info on the latest and greatest out there, and I would surely have missed HTTYD 2 but for this thread. I listened to the soundtrack on YouTube (in it's wretchedly compressed form) and immediately ordered the CD. It is definitely one of the best soundtracks I've ever heard. Hat's off to Mr. Powell.


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## Tatu (Jun 16, 2014)

Powell really stands out from the mass. And AIR has never sounded so good (the first movies soundtrack was a bit messy from time to time).


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## Danny_Owen (Jun 17, 2014)

I've just spent the afternoon listening to the score. Truly superb, I agree it's even better than the first one.

If anyone at RCP reads this, please do pass on our congratulations


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## bobulusbillman (Jun 17, 2014)

Tatu @ Mon Jun 16 said:


> Powell really stands out from the mass. And AIR has never sounded so good (the first movies soundtrack was a bit messy from time to time).



FYI HTTYD2 was recorded at Abbey Road Studio 1.


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## Tatu (Jun 17, 2014)

bobulusbillman @ Tue Jun 17 said:


> Tatu @ Mon Jun 16 said:
> 
> 
> > Powell really stands out from the mass. And AIR has never sounded so good (the first movies soundtrack was a bit messy from time to time).
> ...



Oh, I was certain they did. http://www.airstudios.com/previous-clie ... m-project/
Or did they just some material from the original or recorded something additional stuff there? Well, I suppose I should rephrase myself then: _No wonder AIR sounded so good.. _ :roll:


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## bobulusbillman (Jun 17, 2014)

Here are some pics from the recording:

http://scoringsessions.com/news/275/


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## ThomasL (Jun 17, 2014)

Just had to add to the choir, this is a great score, truly remarkable.


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## dcoscina (Jun 17, 2014)

I would say that this score deserves an Oscar nod but because of their stupid rule about not using previous thematic material Powell will be screwed again for any chances at hoisting the Golden statuette. 

There is certainly a lot lf meat on these bones. I love Valka's theme (sounds very English) and Drago's music is at once menacing and a little melancholic. What Powell. Does with Stoic's theme in Hiccup Confronts Drago is nothing short of amazing. I love that variation with him building it with strings and choir before the sudden shift to the war pipes. I cannot say enough great things about this score.


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## Jetzer (Jun 17, 2014)

dcoscina @ June 17th said:


> I would say that this score deserves an Oscar nod but because of their stupid rule about not using previous thematic material Powell will be screwed again for any chances at hoisting the Golden statuette.



I thought that rule was out since LotR?


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## RiffWraith (Jun 17, 2014)

The Academy can change it's rules when it sees fit, but the current rule for such things is as follows:

_Scores diluted by the use of tracked themes or other preexisting music, diminished in impact by the predominant use of songs, or assembled from the music of more than one composer shall not be eligible._

If you break it down to only what is relevant for HTTYD 2, it's:

_Scores diluted by the use of other preexisting music shall not be eligible._

It would seem to me that someone - probably on a case by case basis - has to make the determination on whether or not the score in question has been "diluted". So, if you reuse a motif or two from film #1, but re-record it for the new film, and 95% of the music for film #2 is completely original, you are going to be ok. But if you reuse a ton of the old score, and only 20% is new material, then that score would probably not be eligible. At least that's the way I see it.

Cheers.


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## dcoscina (Jun 17, 2014)

Thanks Riff but because Most oscar voters are not musicians (hence musically moronic- sorry but it's true) they won't no be able to discern variations on his themes from the first score and this new one, nor will they be able to grasp the sublime original themes as they relate to the previous established ones. Frankly oscars have generally become benchmarks more mediocrity anyhow so it's probably all for the best that Powell doesn't win one. Williams hasn't gotten one since Schindler's List and you can't tell me that in that past 20 years he hasn't penned a score that wasn't worthy of another statuette (War Horse, Memoirs of a Geisha). 

But I don't want to divert attention away from this wonderful score to an age old debate about Oscars...

Np- HTTYD2


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## JohnG (Jun 18, 2014)

Just listened to the first five cues. The recording alone deserves an Oscar.

While not ground-breaking as far as fancy techniques, the amazing variety and masterful application of all the skills -- melody, orchestration, colour -- really puts it at the top of the craft.


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## Guy Rowland (Jun 18, 2014)

This is getting really hard not to listen / buy before seeing the film. But it's the law, ya know?


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## JohnG (Jun 18, 2014)

dcoscina @ 13th June 2014 said:


> ...The writing for the choir is inspired and, to me, this plays more like a modern tone poem than a film score.
> 
> The orchestration is nothing short of amazing .... Lots of pointillism, ritardanos, and expressive moments that I think top the original score. The mixing is better to (Shawn Murphy engineered this time out). I'm certain the orchestra had a joy of a time playing this challenging and heartfelt score.
> 
> Powell, for me, is probably the closest thing this generation has to a John Williams- he's got solid thematic development skills combined with some terrific harmonic sensibilities but also grasps the modern music landscape as well. He's a terrific composer and I'm glad that his leave of absence resulted in him finding even more resources in his wheel house to share with the world. ...



+1

Amazing writing, amazing sound.


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## antoniopandrade (Jun 18, 2014)

Interesting to note is that Shawn Murphy was not only the mixing engineer for music, he's also the dub mixing engineer for the entire movie.


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## Jetzer (Jun 21, 2014)

Haven't seen the movie yet, but listened to the score a couple of times. It's really great!

The part 1:45 - 3:08 in the track Hiccup the Chief/ Drago's Coming is my personal favorite 8) Best epic fantasy action music since the long battle sequence in Pirates 3.


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## dcoscina (Jun 21, 2014)

I don't remember which track it is but Powell does a wonderful Goldsmith styled variation of the Drago theme using imitative counterpoint in the brass. When I first heard that I said "shit yeah, Jerry would have totally done this!"

This score continues to amaze with every listening. For me, Powell is the best high profile composer out there. Note this is my own personal opinion.

He embodies compositional traits of the masters of film scoring but has a solid handle on technology too. And he seems to be a very deliberate composer. As was the case with the original HTTYD one can hear a distinct architecture to this score. Nothing is arbitrary which is a reflection of someone with solid formal chops. Knowing and understanding large forms can only aid a composer for film where it's so crucial for the music to develop with it's accompanying narrative.


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## JohnG (Jun 21, 2014)

dcoscina @ 21st June 2014 said:


> Nothing is arbitrary which is a reflection of someone with solid formal chops. Knowing and understanding large forms can only aid a composer for film where it's so crucial for the music to develop with it's accompanying narrative.



This is a very interesting observation. I can't pretend I've listened with enough care to notice this myself, but taking your word for it, it's all the more impressive, given his background and also the sad fact that most film execs seem to have forgotten this entire concept. 

Many films, even (maybe, "especially") some of the most expensive, seem collages of one set piece after another, rather than a thought-out, integrated story with a clearly considered arc.

I wonder if Mr. P went away and did some studying? If I remember his interview accurately, he didn't have much formal schooling in music before starting to write commercials.


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## dcoscina (Jun 21, 2014)

Actually John I think he's got a fair bit of formal training

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Powell_(composer)


I know Wiki is not always accurate but I've read in various other sources that he did study music in college.


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## Kejero (Jun 23, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed Jun 18 said:


> This is getting really hard not to listen / buy before seeing the film. But it's the law, ya know?



Yeah, it is, and it's making me suffer too 

I don't know the man, but judging from his music I don't doubt that he has some form of compositional-eductional background.


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## dcoscina (Jun 29, 2014)

So I finally got around to seeing this film after listening to Powell's score for a few weeks nonstop. Loved it. The animation was stunning and the story was funny, heartbreaking, harrowing, and thrilling. Powell's score soars to new heights as far as dramatic underscoring. Some of the scenes between central characters were easily as dramatic and expressive as live action- in some cases, much superior. Blanchett's performance was amazingly layered and hats off to the animation team. There's sequences that will remain in my mind forever. 

This is a great film and great score. Probably the best sequel I have ever seen to be quite honest.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 13, 2014)

Finally.... FINALLY... seen the movie and I agree it is terrific. Very much in the Empire Strikes Back mold. It may not quite top the first - for me some of the action and storytelling moments lacked clarity - but it comes awfully close. Character animation in particular was astonishing, and its a film - like the first - with a real heart and isn't afraid to touch on Big Themes.

Speaking of Big Themes - the score. So I've only heard it in the context of the film (as is its primary purpose) and of course its fabulous. Super-proud of my 12 year old who when his credit came up, spontaneously said "John Powell is a genius". Thasss ma boy. I'm not sure it's overall as perfect as the first for two reasons - one, there are some slightly ill-advised pop vocal numbers, one near the beginning (the weakest part of the film for me) and one at the closing credits, not sure if these are on the soundtrack but I'll shortly find out when I buy it I guess. The second is that it lacks the emotional musical centrepiece of Forbidden Friendship - obviously that's no criticism of Powell as that's purely how the film is, there isn't an equivalent of that long non-dialogue scene where the music takes centre-stage (yes, there is the sung love song but it didn't quite fill that void for me). Really it sounded like a perfect continuation of where we left off, and given that I think HTTYD 1 is the best blockbuster score in at least 20 years, that'll do just fine.

The mix, incidentally, certainly pushes the music forward compared to the first. If it were me at the faders, I'd push a few moments even more but it doesn't sound as frustratingly back in the mix as the first one did, so hooray for that.

One for the off-topic section but I'm concerned that the film hasn't performed quite as well as expected, despite great reviews and very strong punter feedback (8.5 on IMDB). It follows on from Edge Of Tomorrow, similarly feted but even more overlooked. With Transformers 4 having broken the all-time box office record in China, it doesn't bode well for the recognition of real off screen talent in blockbusters.


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## dcoscina (Jul 13, 2014)

Actually I really enjoy Together We Map the World and Flying with Mother which introduce a new mature theme for Hiccup which is very much steeped in VW sound.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 13, 2014)

dcoscina @ Sun Jul 13 said:


> Actually I really enjoy Together We Map the World and Flying with Mother which introduce a new mature theme for Hiccup which is very much steeped in VW sound.



I guess I was really meaning music taking centre stage in the film itself. Very much looking forward to getting to know the score and hearing all the stuff I missed in the heat of battle though.


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## bluejay (Jul 13, 2014)

Great analysis there Guy. Agree for the most part, including your thoughts on the early pop vocal piece. One point though is surely the whole Flying With Mother sequence was the long centrepiece without dialogue (and a beautiful piece it is).


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 14, 2014)

bluejay @ Sun Jul 13 said:


> Great analysis there Guy. Agree for the most part, including your thoughts on the early pop vocal piece. One point though is surely the whole Flying With Mother sequence was the long centrepiece without dialogue (and a beautiful piece it is).



I might be being over-literal, but to me that was more the equivalent of Romantic Flight - which is absolutely terrific in its own right and absolutely a score highlight. But to reiterate, the absence of a Forbidden Friendship moment was purely a function of the structure of the film, it might be that when I hear the sondtrack on its own its more than compensated for as a standalone musical work. Forbidden Friendship was one of those (highly rare) moments when ordinary punters really notice the actual score in a film aside from the main theme - its quite common in commercial tracks, but not score. Perhaps that's a bit like that early cue in Up, but in that case people are usually blubbing away so much that they're unable to quite appreciate what the music is doing (and arguably that's even better I guess).

With all due apologies for the tangent, I have one specifc observation and one specific question regarding the last 20 minutes of the film. Since there's no spoiler tags here I'll put it in small font - if anyone can be bothered to a) read and b) respond, please put any reply to that paragraph in small font too!

The observation - Hiccup's reaction as he is crowned chief at the end of the movie could be the finest piece of character animation I've ever seen. Also the highest of praise to Toothless' animation in particular and Randy Thom's sensational sound design to accompany. Now for the question - there's one bit none of us Rowland folks got. On the Hiccup / Toothless' attack on the Alpha, they swoop low right over him, Toothless' spine zips up for the first time, then our heroes whizz skyward and Hiccup proclaims "WE DID IT"! Er, what did they do?


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## R.Cato (Jul 24, 2014)

Went to see it today.

Oh my god, what a brilliant movie and soundtrack.

Highly recommend anyone to watch this. It can't get any better than this.


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## dcoscina (Jul 24, 2014)

Powell to my mind is this generation's John Williams- and I don't say that lightly. His sense of melody, harmony but more importantly his attention to the development of central ideas stems more from classical music than other film scores or pop which is something I find endemic to a lot of high profile film scores of late. It's not surprising as Powell revealed in his now infamous Spitfire Audio interview that he doesn't listen to other film music. 

HTTYD2 is an amazing companion to his first score and in many ways, superior. He chose to write several new themes and weave them within this score much like Williams did with Empire Strikes Back. A lot of people say this film is analogous to TESB and I'm inclined to agree. It's a bit melancholic and a lot more serious. Pity audiences didn't appreciate the mature character interactions. 

I do think this film is less about Hiccup and Toothless and more about the people in Hiccup's life and ultimately about him confronting himself. A terrific character piece. The only flaw is Drago's character which is a wee bit thin and archetypal. Didn't care for the way Djimon Hounsou voiced him either- too dramatic and one dimensional. 

Aside from that, a stellar film and film score. 

I don't mean to disrespect anyone here (rctec) honestly I don't but I would have loved what Powell would have done with MOS. His "Death and Transfiguration" track from HANCOCK is one of the best penultimate tracks I've heard with a triumphant recap of the main theme. Rock solid composer he is!


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 24, 2014)

dcoscina @ Fri Jul 25 said:


> I don't mean to disrespect anyone here (rctec) honestly I don't but I would have loved what Powell would have done with MOS.



At the not inconsiderable risk of further disrespect, I'm not sure Powell could have done anything with it. A key reason why HTTYD is how it is is because it was allowed to be. Despite being a kids film, it has mature characters and a keen sense of storytelling, qualities which are entirely absent from MOS (imo, obviously). Also it goes without saying that the director / producer has to like that more classical style of scoring, and I just have a hunch that those involved in MOS don't.

But I do agree with you re Powell being the heir to the Williams throne. It's interesting to me that he is so adept at this musically rich stuff, but also excels at sound design and minimalism too.


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## dcoscina (Jul 24, 2014)

Well put Guy. I do agree. MOS had some good moments and those were also the best musically not by coincidence. HTTYD2 is an infinitely better made film than MOS and the filmmaker obviously was receptive to Powell's theme driven score.

I also agree that Powell can do some terrific sound design and minimalist scores as well but I do admit to liking his theme driven scores more.


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## tokatila (Aug 30, 2014)

After listening this for the umptheenth time and still wiping mansweat from the corner of my eye, I always remember John Powell's answer what is his greatest weapon as a composer. -"Tenacity".

And yes, "Toothless found" does it every time for me. o


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## Lassi Tani (Sep 13, 2014)

I went to see the movie today! I'm surprised it was still in cinema here in Finland. The music is, as the subject says, astonishing! I wonder when the score comes available. Btw, is HTTYD score available? How fast usually the scores come to stores?


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## Kejero (Sep 15, 2014)

sekkosiki,

It's been out for a while (iTunes, Amazon...) Soundtracks are often released even before the movie.


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## Lassi Tani (Sep 19, 2014)

Kejero @ 15/9/2014 said:


> sekkosiki,
> 
> It's been out for a while (iTunes, Amazon...) Soundtracks are often released even before the movie.



Kejero, Thanks, but I meant scoresheets.


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## Kejero (Sep 23, 2014)

Ah, well film score sheets aren't usually made available publicly...


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