# The Prometheus - Metropolis Ark I *update*



## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 4, 2016)

Hi there,

Today morning I had to get an idea tracked down before its lost. So composition done today morning, later than orchestration. Hope you like it guys.

old version:



new version:


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 5, 2016)

I have done a little bit of mixing and replaced the version 1. Feedback appreciated.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 5, 2016)

Sounds much better, my friend. The first time all I heard was low brass, now it sounds more balanced and even more powerful hearing the higher instruments such as trumpets and violins.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 5, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Sounds much better, my friend. The first time all I heard was low brass, now it sounds more balanced and even more powerful hearing the higher instruments such as trumpets and violins.



Yes the brass was in version I a bit very overpowering the rest. In the end I came up with fresh ears in a new session with more homogen sound result. But: It is not intentionally style that I prefer to write. I just want to get to know the vi better and so I test things.


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## tarantulis (Feb 5, 2016)

Sounds awesome.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 6, 2016)

Cool and thanks guys. Appreciate that. The Return of section A: I will reharmonize and purpose something there to make it just not a "repitition". I was in hurry so I think tomorrow I will think about that. If somebody is interested in piano arrangement let me know.


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## Rodney Money (Feb 6, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Cool and thanks guys. Appreciate that. The Return of section A: I will reharmonize and purpose something there to make it just not a "repitition". I was in hurry so I think tomorrow I will think about that. If somebody is interested in piano arrangement let me know.


Are you doing this for a client?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 6, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Are you doing this for a client?



I offered that demo track to my label. They will get it into their portfolio. Actually I am doing other stuff for the label and some clients, actually on two projects. And in such cases I can´t post anything because of rights (Maybe later after the release of the products). So in between I do such stuff. Main thing here is just to get to know the new Vi MA I which I hadn´t much time testing. Unfortunately. Because I think it is a great sonic monster of a sampler. 

It is a bit crazy with my schedules actually. Hope I have a bit more time in 2 weeks to continue also my other starchild track.


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## Morodiene (Feb 6, 2016)

I really like it! Very epic sounding. Is there a way you can bring the middle down a bit, maybe a thinner/softer texture for contrast when you return to A again? You may not have to vary it that much if you give a nice contrast before it.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 6, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> I really like it! Very epic sounding. Is there a way you can bring the middle down a bit, maybe a thinner/softer texture for contrast when you return to A again? You may not have to vary it that much if you give a nice contrast before it.



Normally when I write with my full orchestral template which offer more dynamic range off course I tend to do that. With Metropolis ARK I it is rather a problem to do that because lower dynamics are not sampled and I wanted to use only sounds from that vi. You can ride the faders (down) but then it starts to sounds fake. But I also thought about that. When I have time I do a real orchestral 80s rich version with all that nice colors what I have then. Also there are no Woodwinds in my piece. Sacrileg! haha..no but..I miss them.

But for broad and LOUD sound I can highly recommend MA I. It is really fantastic.


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## Morodiene (Feb 6, 2016)

Does ARK I have woodwinds? Or just brass and strings?


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 6, 2016)

Morodiene said:


> Does ARK I have woodwinds? Or just brass and strings?



It has Winds They are called the "Barnack Contra Bassoons" and Hohlbein Bassoons (like my street nearby I live) . Sampled on mezzoforte and above I guess up triple F or something similiar loud. I mean in such context here you can use them add color to the lines. They sound good.

source: http://orchestraltools.com/resources/documents/Metropolis_Ark_1.pdf


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 8, 2016)

ok guys, here is version 5. I am not sure at that moment to improve something useful just soundwise here anymore, or what do you think? I guess the only way is to better orchestrational chops and writing.

Anyways, here we go:


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## Fer (Feb 8, 2016)

Hi just three sugestions; the first one: suposing that you are in the key of C minor, the first three chords are C- G C- (isnt?); well, the upper voice of the trumpets sounds like: C-B-G; well i think that in that case the sensible (B) tends naturally to C, not to G, because the G chord is the dominant, and i think it might sound more natural in that way...
the second one: the brass in that progression do some kind of fast crescendo; something like mf-ff. I would try to do some kind of sfz instead, with the moodwheel and to the whole thing (choirs low brass..). But this is a matter of taste of course.
the third one: i think that the whole thing could be relaxed in some parts using the lower dynamics. Thus you could get more dynamic contrast.. whitout contrast there is no crescendos and crescendos are a great ingredient of epicness, i would say...
Hope that helps,
cheers


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 8, 2016)

Fer said:


> Hi just three sugestions; the first one: suposing that you are in the key of C minor, the first three chords are C- G C- (isnt?); well, the upper voice of the trumpets sounds like: C-B-G; well i think that in that case the sensible (B) tends naturally to C, not to G, because the G chord is the dominant, and i think it might sound more natural in that way...
> the second one: the brass in that progression do some kind of fast crescendo; something like mf-ff. I would try to do some kind of sfz instead, with the moodwheel and to the whole thing (choirs low brass..). But this is a matter of taste of course.
> the third one: i think that the whole thing could be relaxed in some parts using the lower dynamics. Thus you could get more dynamic contrast.. whitout contrast there is no crescendos and crescendos are a great ingredient of epicness, i would say...
> Hope that helps,
> cheers



Hi Fer, 

Cool Idea with your points. I will try out the other voicing in a next session then. Yes it is supposely some kind of c minor at least establishing as a tonal center though some of the chords and lines I throw in there are not always diatonic. If you are interested I could upload the midi piano composition which is the foundation for that track though it is a rough sketch. 
I am no expert in this epic kind of music but the ideas with sforzando could be a try worth. 

With the third thing it is a bit the thing with the library as I think to get really good dynamic contrast I have to include more other vi´s, but yes it is banging loud throughout the whole minute here.


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## mc_deli (Feb 10, 2016)

I think you would get a stronger "smack them hard in the face" feeling if you had some quiet moments. e.g. At 50" if you let the end of that phrase die/decay for a few seconds. Then hit them wherever it hurts.


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## Fer (Feb 10, 2016)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> If you are interested I could upload the midi piano composition which is the foundation for that track though it is a rough sketch.


Hi Alex, im very busy actually but if you achieved a better version let us now : )
Cheers


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 10, 2016)

Fer said:


> Hi Alex, im very busy actually but if you achieved a better version let us now : )
> Cheers


I know the feeling. When I have a new version I will surerly update something. Before going through some of the points I still feel to make a derivation of Section A. Maybe a slightly reharmonization would serve. 

Cheers.


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## Jerome Vonhogen (Feb 10, 2016)

Hey Alexander, your track contains some great ideas and has a lot of potential!

I wonder though, why you abandoned your mix posted last friday (the one posted as a replacement of the original track in your first post). In my opinion, it's much better than the last one (posted as "version 5"). The only real problem in your mix were the trumpets (too loud, too sharp, too close), but in the 5th version of your mix your trumpets sound even more prominent and dominant, because you turned down the volume of the sustained brass notes of the theme. I think you muted the wrong brass instruments.

I'm a bit hesitant to give you any suggestions because a) it's not my piece, b) I tend to throw out more than I put back in, and c) as an experienced composer, you are perfectly capable of making your own musical choices.

Anyway, feel free to skip the next part of my post, it's just a couple of things I would try in order to improve the structure of the piece.

- I would probably remove the first timpany hit at the start of the piece (the upbeat), and replace that first upbeat by a timpany roll.
- Then I would remove the choir during the entire first minute, and let the choir only sing the 'reprise' to add power to the climax. And when the theme returns (the 'reprise'), I would let the choir start right away with the sustained notes of your theme. I would not wait until the second phrase to introduce the choir.
- During the "exposition" of the theme at the start of the piece, I would either mute or soften the short repeated notes in the trumpets, and give room to the sustained notes in the brass and strings to give the listener a chance to get familiar with the theme.
- When the theme returns, I would let the choir sing the entire theme polyphonically, including that sopranos-altos unisono bit, which sounds too weak and incomplete compared to the surrounding choir parts.
- I would perhaps simplify the choir chords in the last 10-15 seconds of the track, to make them sound a little more 'open' and less dense.
- And most importantly: I would not pay attention to any suggestions made in this post, and make my own choices instead! 

- Jerome Vonhögen


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## Baron Greuner (Feb 11, 2016)

Mein Gott Alexander you sure like to make some Teutonic sounding music. This one nearly blew me away. I mean literally. I had the monitors turned up way too loud and finished up pinned to back wall of my studio.

Donner und Blitzen!


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 12, 2016)

Baron Greuner said:


> Mein Gott Alexander you sure like to make some Teutonic sounding music. This one nearly blew me away. I mean literally. I had the monitors turned up way too loud and finished up pinned to back wall of my studio.
> 
> Donner und Blitzen!





Normalerweise kann ich auch Geschichten leise erzählen. Normally I can also tell stories in a quite way :D And yes..I tortured the limiter. It is a bit an orchestra on crack though. I hope I didn´t ruin your ears.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 12, 2016)

Jerome Vonhogen said:


> Hey Alexander, your track contains some great ideas and has a lot of potential!
> 
> I wonder though, why you abandoned your mix posted last friday (the one posted as a replacement of the original track in your first post). In my opinion, it's much better than the last one (posted as "version 5"). The only real problem in your mix were the trumpets (too loud, too sharp, too close), but in the 5th version of your mix your trumpets sound even more prominent and dominant, because you turned down the volume of the sustained brass notes of the theme. I think you muted the wrong brass instruments.
> 
> ...



Hi Jerome, 

Hopefully next week I will find some time to have another session.


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