# Are you Ryzen to the challenge



## novaburst (Sep 28, 2021)

So i think its been a little over 3 years now since AMD showed that they are a real force in the CPU market,

Did you make the change, was you unsure weather to make the switch from Intel to AMD, are you still deciding.

Are you happy you made the change and how is it doing in your music production.

I must say i did make the change AMD Ryzen and find them to be very stable and solid CPUs, i find them to be quick, resource friendly, and find they work excellent with music production,

So what do you think is Ryzen the right choice or are you hanging on for an Intel come back to build your new machine


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## Mornats (Sep 28, 2021)

I was a huge fan way back in the K6 era. I had a K6-133, then a K6III-400 before moving on to an Athlon. They were a much better bang per buck than Intel at the time (at least that's what my impression was back then). Then Intel came out with the Core 2 Duo and blew them away until Ryzen came out. I'm currently on a 4790K but when I come to upgrade in the next few years Ryzen will be on my radar. So I'm watching this thread with interest


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## Pier (Sep 28, 2021)

In 2019 I switched from my iMac to a Ryzen 3700X PC for music/sound duties.

Super happy with the switch and documented it here. I get more performance that I will ever need honestly.

Initially I was unhappy with the temps because I wanted to keep it under 30ºC which required my fans to be louder than I liked it. But then I learned that it's ok to run it at high temps and only push the fans when it goes above 70-80ºC. And even when pushing all the cores with Cinebench it never goes beyond 75ºC.


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## d.healey (Sep 28, 2021)

It's fine but too hot for my taste, I aim to run fanless, I think I'll give alderlake a try next year.


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## Collywobbles (Sep 28, 2021)

Still on Intel, but I'm really glad that both companies are making excellent products at the moment, and that the competition is helping to keep the prices reasonable. It is comforting knowing that when you upgrade you can confidently buy either brand and focus on finding a good deal.


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## Technostica (Sep 28, 2021)

d.healey said:


> It's fine but too hot for my taste, I aim to run fanless, I think I'll give alderlake a try next year.


The issue seems to be that even though it's a power efficient chip, because it's fabbed on such a small node, the thermal density is high. 
Alderlake based on leaks, has a high power consumption and is built on a smaller node, so the thermal density will also be high. 

I looked at fanless in the past, but once I realised that I can build a truly silent desktop with 3 fans, I gave up on the idea. 
Fans, even running at 500 rpm make a big difference.


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## easyrider (Sep 28, 2021)

5950x here…a superb cpu that Intel have no answer for.


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## Pier (Sep 28, 2021)

Technostica said:


> I looked at fanless in the past, but once I realised that I can build a truly silent desktop with 3 fans, I gave up on the idea.
> Fans, even running at 500 rpm make a big difference.


Yeah totally.

I have like 7 fans in my Ryzen machine and it's whisper quiet 99.99% of the time. Completely inaudible if you're wearing headphones or there is anything else producing sound in the house.

One thing that helped a lot was the Asus Strix GPU which shuts down the fan unless you're gaming hard.


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## chimuelo (Sep 28, 2021)

My 5600/5700G need no overclocking and are in a 1U chassis now w/ ASRock Rack X570 boards.
Intel is a great chip, but they fell asleep with endless leaks and no product.
AMD leaked too but came through.

Great for us since Intel needs a win. Still don’t see how being as good as, but hotter and more expensive is some big achievement.

I dare Intel to win me back…


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## Pier (Sep 28, 2021)

Technostica said:


> The issue seems to be that even though it's a power efficient chip, because it's fabbed on such a small node, the thermal density is high.


Indeed, and AFAIK it's a consequence of adding more cores. This is going to be similar with Intel chips with 8+ cores.


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## Technostica (Sep 28, 2021)

Pier said:


> I have like 7 fans in my Ryzen machine and it's whisper quiet 99.99% of the time. Completely inaudible if you're wearing headphones or there is anything else producing sound in the house.


For me, a silent PC is one that is inaudible with the CPU at 100% load, at 2 A.M. when the background noise floor is very low.
In other words, you never hear it unless you put your head under the desk near the case.



Pier said:


> Indeed, and AFAIK it's a consequence of adding more cores. This is going to be similar with Intel chips with 8+ cores.


AMD's 16 Core Zen 3 runs cooler than the 8 core version because they cherry picked the best Zen 3 chiplets for the 16 core model, so that it will run with an acceptable power consumption.
So it has twice the cores in twice the area but consumes much less than twice the power.
So the thermal density is a lot lower making it easier to cool.
This is what I've heard and it makes sense.
The twelve core is somewhere in between the 8 and 16 core.

Ideally, you only want one 8 core chiplet as it makes for more consistent latencies within the chip.
But if you require more than one, you do gain in terms of better thermals and the latency difference is a good trade-off if you need the extra cores.


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## pranic (Sep 28, 2021)

My main rig is an Intel i9-9900k, but I have a few servers in my house (homelab) and they're all running on original generation Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 processors, and have been super-solid. Of course, they're also running on Linux. I haven't tried running Windows on them (I am more of a Mac/Linux person these days). That said, the current generation high-core count Ryzen 7 and 9 processors look awesome.


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## Wunderhorn (Sep 28, 2021)

Remember that fans are not only responsible for noise.

They are also mechanically moving parts that can deteriorate, fail or get louder over time.
But more importantly, they are the gateway to dust and dust greatly decreases the life-span of any electronic equipment.

A not only silent but also durable machine should be built with heatsinks only, and that is definitely possible.


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## Instrugramm (Sep 28, 2021)

I was forced to build a new system two months back and went for a 5950x, it's a good cpu but the mainboard suffers from coil whine and in some instances it does feel more sluggish than my 9700k did. I have to disclose however, that I didn't reinstall windows from point blanc, a newly installed AMD platform system might be snappier.

When it comes to orchestration it's wonderful, I had to sell my UAD Apollo Twin X and am left with my Topping DAC, yet I can go down in latency as I did with the interface (this wasn't possible before, latency had to stay way up when I had my intel system).

Ps. I had to go with an AIO solution as aircooling proved to be difficult. I would also encourage anybody to steer clear of the current Nvidia cards, I've gone throug three 3080ti Suprim X models, all of them had massive coil whine and the third one had fans scratching the cooler enclosure. My fourth and hopefully final card will arrive in the next few days, hopefully that one won't be as nerve wrecking.


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## Pier (Sep 28, 2021)

Wunderhorn said:


> But more importantly, they are the gateway to dust and dust greatly decreases the life-span of any electronic equipment.


Use dust filters on your intake vents and configure your fans to get positive pressure. All air will come through your intake vents, and through the filters.

Some dust will inevitably enter but it's a non issue for component longevity. Easy to clean once a year.


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## Tim_Wells (Sep 28, 2021)

My 5600X running cool, quiet, and stable. Very happy.


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## Technostica (Sep 28, 2021)

Wunderhorn said:


> Remember that fans are not only responsible for noise.
> 
> They are also mechanically moving parts that can deteriorate, fail or get louder over time.
> But more importantly, they are the gateway to dust and dust greatly decreases the life-span of any electronic equipment.
> ...


When you consider that many people are using CPUs that use 100w and much more in some cases, going fanless is either not possible or very restricting and expensive. 
It's considered essential for some industrial installations and there are companies that cater for that or you can build your own. 
Using laptop parts helps but there are limited choices and high prices. 
I would rather live with the dust.


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## woodslanding (Sep 29, 2021)

I got a 5900x, and it's working very well for me. Although it benches 7x higher than the intel 5775c it replaced, the difference is so far less dramatic. Of course it's a little early to tell how much harder I could work it... I did try running my setup at 88.2k, and it wasn't up to that. But I haven't done much optimizing yet, so who knows. I have to dig into this bios.

It definitely generates more heat, but it hasn't been a problem so far.... I think if you want a cooler processor, intel isn't going to be a good choice until they get their new mfg process together. Have a look at this graph:

Processor Power Efficiency

If you want bang for your Celsius, it's all AMD these days....


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## Mr Greg G (Sep 29, 2021)

I have been using a Zen 2 Ryzen 9 3900XT for almost a year flawlessly. It used to run hot but added an additional fan (Be Quiet Pure Wings 2) for a total of 6 fans in the case including the ones from the Noctua CPU air cooler.


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## TomislavEP (Sep 29, 2021)

I have a Ryzen 7 2700X in my current DAW system paired with 64 GB of RAM. I'm using this configuration since late 2019. and I'm most happy with the performance as a very demanding user. I guess that it will serve me well for many upcoming years. Also, I should be able to "upgrade" to Windows 11 if this proves as a superior platform for music production or after Windows 10 loses the official support.

I'm using AMD CPUs for many years now instead of the Intel ones primarily due to the lower prices in our local stores and (IMO) better features/value ratio. So far, I didn't have any deal-breaking issues.


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## novaburst (Sep 29, 2021)

Pier said:


> learned that it's ok to run it at high temps and only push the fans when it goes above 70-80ºC. And even when pushing all the cores with Cinebench it never goes beyond 75ºC.


They seem to been fine running hot , I think I would still be a little uncomfortable with them running at those temperatures, I went through a learning curve purchasing 3rd party CPU cooling, and went for the nuctua nhd15 but purchased it blindly the thing was so large I could not get the side panel back on and ended getting another pc case,

At idle a I am hitting 27 to 31 degrees, when loaded I am hitting 31 to 38 degrees the cooler is fairly quiet and has some extra low noise settings if needed, and this is on a 16 core unbelievable.
T
I built another machine back then and purchased the assassin 3 cooler almost identical to the nuctua but beats it by 1 degree but a little more noise but has the same low noise setting if needed.


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## novaburst (Sep 29, 2021)

https://store.overclockers.co.uk/noctua-nh-p1-passive-cpu-cooler-hs-03s-nc.html?
For those who like no noise at all nuctua does this passive cooler with out any fans


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## davidson (Sep 29, 2021)

I've just built a 5800x rig (for gaming, not music ) and I can tell you the ryzen runs HOT. Like 20 degree's hotter than comparable cpus at times. I've got a 6 fan build in a corsair airflow case, and a 240mm AIO on it and it's still toasty. Apparently that just seems to be how some of the 5800x's run, but it makes you wonder how long it'll last. CPU lottery in full effect.


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## novaburst (Sep 29, 2021)

If you have the Ryzen you can also download this for free


https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/ryzen-master


It's a over clock tweaker but I don't recommend using it for that , but it's very good at monitoring your temps and voltage and core speeds wattage usage, if your into that but very handy


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## Mr Greg G (Sep 29, 2021)

You could use HWInfo (portable program, no install) for just checking temps, core effective speed and voltage of your CPU but also monitors an speed, SSD, HDD etc


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## Robert Kooijman (Sep 29, 2021)

Good to read positive reports about the latest AMD parts. My very first PC-DAW (after using an Atari 1040 ST) had an AM386 CPU. There was a turbo button which if I believe speeded it up to an astonishing 66 Mhz...
Currently running an i9900k with passive water-cooling. No fans! But you need large radiators to keep temps below 100ºC or 212ºF under load. In below picture, these are visible left and right under the keyboard. Keeps also your feet warm during cold Swedish winters 

But I do experience the occasional hick-up when using Vepro and close to 128 GB of RAM. Windows sometimes reports a hardware failure, also at low CPU load and temperatures. Didn't have that before with a different 64GB memory kit. Memtest doesn't report any errors, not sure what happens. Could also be a CPU internal-graphics issue.

So I'm thinking of arranging a dedicated Vepro server using an AMD 5700G (also with integrated graphics) on a relatively affordable mobo, together with the 128GB kit. Then putting back the 64GB kit in the 9900k DAW. This should give some more headroom when going wild


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## Technostica (Sep 29, 2021)

You can undervolt if you want to reduce the CPU temp. 
These CPUs don't actually put out much heat, it's more that the chiplets are very dense meaning that they don't have much surface area to dissipate it.


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## novaburst (Sep 29, 2021)

Mr Pringles said:


> You could use HWInfo (portable program, no install) for just checking temps, core effective speed and voltage of your CPU but also monitors an speed, SSD, HDD etc


Yes there are quite a few programs out there, you can minimize or just have in the corner and see live what your CPU is doing when loading a library or plugin, it can get a little absessive


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## Pictus (Sep 29, 2021)

davidson said:


> I've just built a 5800x rig (for gaming, not music ) and I can tell you the ryzen runs HOT. Like 20 degree's hotter than comparable cpus at times. I've got a 6 fan build in a corsair airflow case, and a 240mm AIO on it and it's still toasty. Apparently that just seems to be how some of the 5800x's run, but it makes you wonder how long it'll last. CPU lottery in full effect.


Use Curve Optimize


This tool will help find the proper value for each core








CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings


Over the last couple of days resp. weeks I've been working with the Curve Optimizer for Ryzen processors a bit more, but I hadn't found a good way to test the settings for stability. CineBench single threaded almost always worked fine, and getting Prime95 stable with load on all cores was also...




www.overclock.net


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## Pictus (Sep 29, 2021)

d.healey said:


> It's fine but too hot for my taste, I aim to run *fanless*, I think I'll give *alderlake *a try next year.


Intel’s Upcoming Alder Lake CPUs Are More Power Hungry Than Rocket Lake & Comet Lake Chips








Intel's Upcoming Alder Lake CPUs Are More Power Hungry Than Rocket Lake & Comet Lake Chips


Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake-S Desktop CPUs are going to be more power hungry than 10th & 11th Gen CPU as revealed in its power ratings chart.




wccftech.com





Details








Power Consumption, Peaks and technical Details: Intel’s upcoming Alder Lake S and Raptor Lake S CPUs in an exclusive comparison | igor'sLAB


Disclaimer: The following article is machine translated from the original German, and has not been edited or checked for errors. Thank you for understanding!




www.igorslab.de


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## easyrider (Sep 29, 2021)

Pictus said:


> Intel’s Upcoming Alder Lake CPUs Are More Power Hungry Than Rocket Lake & Comet Lake Chips
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol

Intel Clutching at straws….


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## dunamisstudio (Sep 29, 2021)

Currently have a Ryzen 7 2700X, hope to swap it out and double my core count one day. Memory maxed at 64GB


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## mallux (Sep 29, 2021)

3700X still going strong a year after building (and saved a £packet over the equivalent Intel at the time, a 10700K iirc)... I timeshare with my teenage son... it spends half its life as a Mac running Logic and the other half as a Windows gaming machine. It was always going to be a gamble, but honestly haven't had a day's trouble with it, haven't found any plugins that don't work out of the box, and even upgrading to Big Sur was reasonably effortless... so I consider it one of my better lockdown purchases!


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## Pier (Sep 29, 2021)

TomislavEP said:


> Also, I should be able to "upgrade" to Windows 11 if this proves as a superior platform for music production or after Windows 10 loses the official support.


I doubt Windows 10 will lose support anytime soon, but you need to enable TPM and Secure Boot via the bios to be able to use recent AMD chips with Windows 11. You might need to update your bios if those options aren't there.


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## Pier (Sep 29, 2021)

mallux said:


> 3700X still going strong a year after building (and saved a £packet over the equivalent Intel at the time, a 10700K iirc)... I timeshare with my teenage son... it spends half its life as a Mac running Logic and the other half as a Windows gaming machine. It was always going to be a gamble, but honestly haven't had a day's trouble with it, haven't found any plugins that don't work out of the box, and even upgrading to Big Sur was reasonably effortless... so I consider it one of my better lockdown purchases!


You're hackintoshing?

What install method did you use?


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## jononotbono (Sep 29, 2021)

I think I'm gonna just go all in and go for a Threadripper next year. Call me intrigued but a 64 core cpu? I think I need that in my life!


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## mallux (Sep 29, 2021)

Pier said:


> You're hackintoshing?
> 
> What install method did you use?


The first time I diligently followed Technolli YT videos, installing OpenCore from scratch, downloading all the necessary kexts etc and updating the config options by hand. Not too difficult, but when I moved to Big Sur I used a ready-made EFI from a splendid fellow with more or less the same hardware on https://forum.amd-osx.com/index.php?threads/audiogods-gigabyte-aorus-x570-pro-pro-wifi-ultra-master-big-sur-monterey-beta-opencore-0-7-3-efi.1344/ (amd-osx.com). Getting lazy in my old age


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## chimuelo (Sep 29, 2021)

novaburst said:


> https://store.overclockers.co.uk/noctua-nh-p1-passive-cpu-cooler-hs-03s-nc.html?
> For those who like no noise at all nuctua does this passive cooler with out any fans


I’m using front chassis triple barrel fans on a Supermicro 1U. Also using their copper HeatSink with grooves and DRAM DIMMs properly aligned (perpendicular) to air flow. 

Still audible but I’m not into silent PCs. But no more Hoover Vacuum loud settings. 

Silent in my BIOS is not silent, but it does hold a piece of paper in place with very low db.


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## quickbrownf0x (Sep 29, 2021)

Robert Kooijman said:


> Good to read positive reports about the latest AMD parts. My very first PC-DAW (after using an Atari 1040 ST) had an AM386 CPU. There was a turbo button which if I believe speeded it up to an astonishing 66 Mhz...
> Currently running an i9900k with passive water-cooling. No fans! But you need large radiators to keep temps below 100ºC or 212ºF under load. In below picture, these are visible left and right under the keyboard. Keeps also your feet warm during cold Swedish winters
> 
> But I do experience the occasional hick-up when using Vepro and close to 128 GB of RAM. Windows sometimes reports a hardware failure, also at low CPU load and temperatures. Didn't have that before with a different 64GB memory kit. Memtest doesn't report any errors, not sure what happens. Could also be a CPU internal-graphics issue.
> ...


Dude, aside from thinking 'man, that's a pretty looking setup, you have there' I immediately thought of the first few lines in this old 90's tune when I saw that middle screen;



Solid advice. 

More on-topic though; what about Thunderbolt? Because my next rig is going to be an Intel one (again), because of (better?) Thunderbolt support (among other things). It's planned for this month, but don't tell my wife. Thoughts?


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## Pier (Sep 29, 2021)

novaburst said:


> https://store.overclockers.co.uk/noctua-nh-p1-passive-cpu-cooler-hs-03s-nc.html?
> For those who like no noise at all nuctua does this passive cooler with out any fans


Yeah but:

1) You can't use it for very powerful CPUs. It only has a NSPR of 42 (Noctua's custom unit). My NH D15 CPU cooler has a NSPR of 183.

2) Your GPU also needs to be fanless or maybe from the Strix series which turns off the fan when not gaming. You also need a silent power supply.

3) You will most likely still need ventilation in your case. You really don't want your components to be constantly at +60ºC.


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## Pier (Sep 29, 2021)

chimuelo said:


> Silent in my BIOS is not silent, but it does hold a piece of paper in place with very low db.


You probably can customize your fan curves in the bios. In mine, silent is definitely *not silent*.


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## Technostica (Sep 29, 2021)

My CPU and case fans are silent when installed in my case at below ~600 RPM, but not all fans are ever silent even at their lowest setting.


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## chimuelo (Sep 29, 2021)

Pier said:


> You probably can customize your fan curves in the bios. In mine, silent is definitely *not silent*.


I do. 

At 20%, which is as low as I want to go, they’re still audible.

But my drummer is happier as he’s very talented, so I tolerate his criticisms.

Not benching, but even my 5600G is easily 30% more powerful in single core.

I can run 2 x Trilian, 2 x Keyscape and 2 x Omni’s in a 6 way multi w/o no problems.

Maybe Intel’s 15th Gen might sway me back.

AMD has won the IPC/low heat + great GFX CPU hands down.

I use a pseudo 3D DSP Audio/MIDI Interface where translucent modules can be stacked up. Never a problem until VSTi’s were being added replacing the old “Tangerine Dream” synths that were stock for the platform.

On occasion my mouse would become a problem and get shaky, etc. No biggie but annoying. Now I can have layers of GUIs on a single screen, bring anyone to the top w/ a MIDI Prgm Chng message. As well as snapshots of the DSP Project Window. Even MIDI and Audio Patchbay changes.

Wish I had this power and technology 20 years ago.

I coulda been a contender…..


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## Wedge (Sep 29, 2021)

For my DAW, I've got a 3700X in a quiet case( Phanteks Eclipse P400s) with a couple extra fans. I'm extremely happy with it. Saved some money over Intel and got a couple extra cores, pretty big win. There is a little fan noise of course but it's not much. Overheating hasn't been an issue but if it is I can take the noise dampening panels off to get more air flow. It's large case, easy to move in, I highly recommend it.

Our house media/ gaming machine is a Ryzen 3900 and it's pretty much over powered for it's use case. Probably should have gone Intel for gaming but they abused there status for a long time so I jumped on a Ryzen 1600, I think that's what it was, right when they came out. But I fucked that machine up after moving from the desert to a humid climate and taking it outside to use compressed air, I iced the board. So this is it's replacement. It's in a small shitty case that I will be excited to send to the recycler and the fans get pretty damn loud gaming or not.

My main laptop right now is a Ryzen 7 Pro 4750U and it's tackled everything I've thrown at it so far, but the fans get pumping pretty hard. It doesn't help that the air intake is on the bottom instead of the back like my Intel laptop, but that's not AMD's fault. I didn't think to look before hand, so that's on me.

I'm very happy with Ryzen so far.


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## TomislavEP (Sep 30, 2021)

Pier said:


> I doubt Windows 10 will lose support anytime soon, but you need to enable TPM and Secure Boot via the bios to be able to use recent AMD chips with Windows 11. You might need to update your bios if those options aren't there.


I've just updated the BIOS of my ASUS motherboard yesterday to the latest version available and now my DAW system is fully Windows 11 compliant, according to the official check app from MS.

I'm very happy with this configuration and I expect that I'll be using it for years after the official support for Windows 10 ceases in 2025. This is the main reason why I'm looking into Windows 11 for now, though I also like its look. But hopefully, there will be some other noteworthy advantages for audio production in the future (one can only hope).


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