# My own fear to put my original compositions on mastering web services



## JEPA (Aug 8, 2018)

in general putting original material on a unknown service web page without knowing how they manage your data could be dangerous...

i have read this on kvraudio... Better to get a mastering engineer or buying some plugins for the job, ready.

http://www.loudnesspenalty.com
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=509288

here some free tools for the job:
bundle:
https://www.apple.com/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/
meters:
https://www.tb-software.com/TBProAudio/dpmeter2.html
https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter/
true peak limiters:
https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/plugins/limiter6/
https://sonic.supermaailma.net/plugins
https://loudmax.blogspot.com
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/maxwell-smart-by-lively-audio
https://www.audacityteam.org

*Edit: in behalf of good will i apologise for opening the thread only based on my own doubts. I don't know the company related above, and i don't want to hurt them, so i will edit one more time the thread title and this post and let only my own opinions in general.*


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## mouse (Aug 8, 2018)

What?


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## ein fisch (Aug 8, 2018)

can you be a bit more precise?


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## JEPA (Aug 8, 2018)

sorry, i've edited the thread's title!...hehe


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## JEPA (Aug 8, 2018)

i don't want to blame this page, http://www.loudnesspenalty.com, i don't know their services, but in general putting original material on a unknown service web page without knowing how they manage your data is very very dangerous...


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## R. Soul (Aug 8, 2018)

I think what OP is referring to is that we shouldn't use online automatic mastering services like LandR. But yeah, I found it rather confusing as well.


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## ein fisch (Aug 8, 2018)

JEPA said:


> i don't want to blame this page, http://www.loudnesspenalty.com, i don't know their services, but in general putting original material on a third service web page without knowing how they manage your data is very very dangerous...


thanks for sharing here.. id personally never use a service like this either altough im not quite sure what they would want to use or steal my compositons for if i did.
looks like a regular, not tooo professional quick solution to analyze your stuff


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## JEPA (Aug 8, 2018)

R. Soul said:


> I think what OP is referring to is that we shouldn't use online automatic mastering services like LandR. But yeah, I found it rather confusing as well.


yes, it was unclear, i've edited the OP and the thread title to be more precise. thank you.


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## Glenn Broersma (Aug 8, 2018)

I used http://www.loudnesspenalty.com a few times.

What is the reason you warn us. Or is this you personal opinion?


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## JEPA (Aug 8, 2018)

Glenn Broersma said:


> I used http://www.loudnesspenalty.com a few times.
> 
> What is the reason you warn us. Or is this you personal opinion?



sorry, maybe i am too quick with opinions. that is my personal opinion. maybe they are a reliable company, but i talk in general too. and maybe (or for sure) i am wrong, but that is my instinct.


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## Glenn Broersma (Aug 8, 2018)

JEPA said:


> sorry, maybe i am too quick with opinions. that is my personal opinion. maybe they are a reliable company, but i talk in general too. and maybe (or for sure) i am wrong, but that is my instinct.



Ok thanks!


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## JEPA (Aug 8, 2018)

should i change the thread's title to: I won't put my music there... to not miss judge and to state clear that this is my opinion? 


Glenn Broersma said:


> Ok thanks!


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## Glenn Broersma (Aug 8, 2018)

Well that is up to you


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## Drundfunk (Aug 8, 2018)

I feel like that advice should be based on experience or evidence. Simply telling people not to use it because you have a feeling/opinion is the wrong way in my opinion. I would never use such a service either, but for all we know it could be a service provided by Hans Zimmer trying to help young composers so their music can be heard worldwide on platforms like Youtube (this is not fact, I made that up). Maybe it would be better to discuss about such services, collect opinions and data about it and then make the conclusion if it's scam or not


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## Piano Pete (Aug 8, 2018)

While I had a hard time figuring out the exact points of your posts, I would have preferred you provided more information aside from links and vague sentences. It's an opinion of mine, but I always like more info aside from unaccompanied links. 

Anywho, *Always read any terms of conditions in full.* It may sound boring, dull, and you may need to google things, but it needs to be said. Heck, Soundcloud has some verbiage that I disagree with and am uncomfortable about, and I have been fine without using it.

I personally do not use these services, so I cannot commit to their validity or not, but it doesnt take too long to read through the terms.


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## JEPA (Aug 8, 2018)

Drundfunk said:


> I feel like that advice should be based on experience or evidence. Simply telling people not to use it because you have a feeling/opinion is the wrong way in my opinion. I would never use such a service either, but for all we know it could be a service provided by Hans Zimmer trying to help young composers so their music can be heard worldwide on platforms like Youtube (this is not fact, I made that up). Maybe it would be better to discuss about such services, collect opinions and data about it and then make the conclusion if it's scam or not





Piano Pete said:


> While I had a hard time figuring out the exact points of your posts, I would have preferred you provided more information aside from links and vague sentences. It's an opinion of mine, but I always like more info aside from unaccompanied links.
> 
> Anywho, *Always read any terms of conditions in full.* It may sound boring, dull, and you may need to google things, but it needs to be said. Heck, Soundcloud has some verbiage that I disagree with and am uncomfortable about, and I have been fine without using it.
> 
> I personally do not use these services, so I cannot commit to their validity or not, but it doesnt take too long to read through the terms.


yes guys, you are right, it was my first impulse. i should delete this thread, but it doesn't work.


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## Piano Pete (Aug 8, 2018)

All good. I dont know if you need to delete the thread, but just something to think about moving forward


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## JEPA (Aug 8, 2018)

maybe is the expression of past experiences what motivated me to post something like this. Always the past... i should compose something to exorcise the past...


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## Nils Neumann (Aug 8, 2018)

JEPA said:


> i don't want to blame this page, http://www.loudnesspenalty.com, i don't know their services, but in general putting original material on a unknown service web page without knowing how they manage your data is very very dangerous...


 
Then educate yourself, this website was build with/by Ian Shepherd.
He is a professional mastering engineer and a advocate against the loudness war (thats the reason for the website).
He produces a incredible helpful podcast all about mastering:
http://themasteringshow.com check Episode #51, it explained all about the website.

Here, his website for his courses: http://productionadvice.co.uk

Absolutely credible person, a resume of decades of professional work, with a service for the greater good. No need to warn without ANY information.


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## nordicguy (Aug 8, 2018)

Here’s some reading about what this site is related too.
The site is powered by MeterPlugs.
Ian Kerr is a Canadian plug‑in developer who own MeterPlugs.
He collaborated with Ian Shepherd to create the Perception plugin.
“Ian Shepherd is a mastering engineer based near Cambridge, UK, and a keen advocate of maintaining appropriate dynamic range in recorded music. To that end, he founded 'Dynamic Range Day' four years ago (http://dynamicrangeday.co.uk/ (http://dynamicrangeday.co.uk)), with the aim of raising awareness of the detrimental effects of the 'loudness war' on so much commercially released music.” (Excerpt from Sound On Sound article by Hugh Robjohns published July 2014).
Pretty interesting reading over there @ Dynamic Range Day.


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## angeruroth (Aug 8, 2018)

Sorry to say it, but this thread looks like a SEO positioning thing... All that URL posting...
But what do I know... Afaik it could be a righteous thread, so please don't mind me.


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## gsilbers (Aug 8, 2018)

sorry. its the second page and im still not sure whats this about. IS that site strealing peoples music? Or is the site getting your info to sell it ... just like any other website and search engine?


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## S.M Hassani (Aug 8, 2018)

Hi Jepa,

Your thread title implies a negative experience with loudnesspenalty.com. But according to you, that never happened. This could hurt the people behind it for no reason. Ian Shepherd is a respectable mastering engineer, who has a lot to teach most of us about mixing/mastering. He dedicates a good chunk of his time to advocate and educate about tasteful mastering practices.

Do look him up as I'm sure you'll benefit from his work. (Not implying anything about your skill level here) I would hope you revise your thread title after doing so.



JEPA said:


> but in general putting original material on a unknown service web page without knowing how they manage your data is very very dangerous...



This part I totally agree with.

Here's a couple of videos if anyone is interested:





His DynaMeter Plugin:




Cheers,

S.M


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## nordicguy (Aug 8, 2018)

I’m definitely seconding a new title for this thread.
Interestingly enough, thread’s title brought them own debates recently.


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## JEPA (Aug 10, 2018)

I want to apologise for without learning about this website loudnesspenalty, quickly expressing my doubts about posting any composition on there, and in general in other mastering services. But all the comments are right, great professionals working in reliable companies.
I think is more a sort of fear about giving away unreleased material to test only loudness not having a direct contact to a human being behind this algorithm (the app at the website). Only anonymous putting a song to see if it complies the loudness standard, i would not do. But if in contact with somebody is another thing. In general, 0s and 1s flying away in the internet...

I 've changed the thread title to not hurt anybody without knowing exactly what i was talking about, like said before it was an impulse, instinct.

All the best,
Jorge


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## ianshepherd (Sep 4, 2018)

Hi All,

Good to see Loudness Penalty being talked about here. I'd just like to clarify a few points. 

Firstly, the site does *not* upload your music, as it says clearly on the front page. All the processing takes place in the browser on your computer - the only information we collect are the numbers calculated (so we can display them and email them to you, if you'd like). 

Second, the site also does no processing apart from calculating the loudness penalty. The original OP links to various limiters etc - that's not what Loudness Penalty does.

And finally, none of the tools listed can do exactly what the LP site does. They all use RMS, LUFS etc to assess loudness, but that's not how the streaming services make their decisions. (Except TIDAL, who _do _use LUFS). That's why we made the site - in our tests, the values are within half a dB of the real-world results you'll see on YouTube, etc - whereas LUFS estimates can often be wrong by several dB.

I hope that helps clear up any confusion, and that no-one feels discouraged from trying the site because of this thread. Any further questions, please let me know !

Ian


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## JEPA (Sep 4, 2018)

*in behalf of good will i apologise for opening the thread only based on my own doubts. I don't know the company related above, and i don't want to hurt them, so i will edit one more time the thread title and the first post and let only my own opinions in general.*


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