# Update: Cakewalk 2021.09 now available



## SlHarder (Apr 16, 2021)

Quote from website:

"We're pleased to announce Early Access for 2021.09! This release introduces enhanced audio file export, including batch exporting, filename tokens, and a completely redesigned Export Audio dialog box, improved AudioSnap transient detection, lots of other enhancements and optimizations, and several bug fixes.

This is a huge update with major enhancements to audio export workflow, as well as Audiosnap transient detection."









[CLOSED] Cakewalk 2021.09 Early Access [Updated to build 114]


[UPDATE 22-Sep-2021: version 2021.09 has been released] Were pleased to announce Early Access for 2021.09! This release introduces enhanced audio file export, including batch exporting, filename tokens, and a completely redesigned Export Audio dialog box, improved AudioSnap transient detection, l...




discuss.cakewalk.com


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## Villanao (Apr 17, 2021)

Cool update. You can record stuff on your phone using the Bandlab app and open the file later in Cakewalk very easily.


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## wst3 (Apr 18, 2021)

I do not know how they are doing this, but they are improving Cakewalk every month, and some of these updates are remarkable! I had written Sonar off when Gibson dumper it, and clearly I was wrong!


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## SlHarder (Apr 18, 2021)

The Cakewalk development team have added a lot of quality and functionality recently. They are very responsive to their user base.

Bandlab claims 30 million users of their music collaboration app and website worldwide. So Cakewalk is just one element of their strategy to bring users to their owned brands.


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## Tim_Wells (Apr 18, 2021)

It's great to see Calkwalk going strong.


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## kitekrazy (Apr 18, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> The Cakewalk development team have added a lot of quality and functionality recently. They are very responsive to their user base.
> 
> Bandlab claims 30 million users of their music collaboration app and website worldwide. So Cakewalk is just one element of their strategy to bring users to their owned brands.


I find it odd that they never put it in the Music Tech DVD.


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## ResSerp (Apr 18, 2021)

Great update! Interested to see that tempo track in action.


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## SlHarder (Jun 18, 2021)

Cakewalk early access 2021.06 is available Jun 16, 2021.


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## TonyDeConcini (Jul 13, 2021)

I know..... I'm verbose. And I type really fast. But I find it a little odd - and not just only interesting - why everyone THINKS that these DAWS that are highly priced, highly revered, highly touted as the best of the best of the best should be promoted as "better" than anything else as many of the users do. I know MANY people use LOGIC or LOGIC PRO and that's all fine and good. It's apparently the "industry standard". Okay fine....if you can drop the $$$$ it costs to buy it, along with the computer to run it then good for those who can and do. Same thing with the MAC computer at too high a price for many people to afford and it being the "industry standard" (again - yawn!!).

The thing that has bothered me since I started on this new journey (again for the nTH time) is why there is this idea that just because you use and promote the use of Logic or Mac, that anything lesser should be scoffed at, put down or viewed as useless, low end, lame or otherwise a tool of the servitude users while the use of Logic and Mac are reserved only for the top echelon elite professionals (or psuedo-professional wanna-be's) who look down their regal noses at anything of such base and mundane use by we plebian music infantile users.

I have used Cakewalk since version 7, then 9 and made the leap to the lite version of Sonar BEFORE I was told by a friend of mine of the newer version of Cakewalk - which is what I finally settled on AND the best part was - it was now FREE. And they keep improving it, it seems plenty robust and powerful AND professional as I see it. And I loved Cakewalk in the early days and still like these latest versions yet I feel like I'm somehow a lesser human because I don't use Mac and Logic like the "real pros" (yeah, like THAT makes a professional right?). Anyway, there is so little exposure, so little positive commentary about it - especially from anyone and everyone who seem to think that just because they use Logic and Mac that they are leaps and bounds beyond anyone in what kind of output you can get and often better because THEY have and use Mac and Logic. Oh, ye of self-aggrandizement!! Simply put I just don't understand the lack of praise Cakewalk gets - especially from so many of those who do this kind of music making. Seems awfully one sided in my book.

But hey, that's okay. Whatever you can afford and whatever you like. I'll stick with my FREE version of Cakewalk and do what little I do which will please me. I don't really care if what I do pleases anyone else anyway - besides I'm too old for a new career. I don't live for the atta-boys anymore. I've had plenty of my share from what I've done in my life and career. But it's fine for those who aspire to professional involvement. God bless you - and good for you. But come on....really?

TonyDi


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## Markrs (Jul 13, 2021)

In fairness to the lovely people on this forum, there is a real mixture of the DAWs being used, including, Logic Pro, Cubase, Studio One, Reaper, FL Studio, Ableton, Mixcraft, Bitwig, Digital Performer and Cakewalk. 

Most who have used Cakewalk agree it is a fully fledged DAW, that totally can be used instead of any of the other DAWs I mentioned above. If someone is on Windows and just starting out it is the one I would recommend to start with. In the end people pick their DAW based on, the User Experience, UI (some people do prefer prettier DAWs), features and workflow. It just depends on what works for you, what compromises you are willing to have and how much you want to spend.


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## TonyDeConcini (Jul 13, 2021)

Markrs said:


> In fairness to the lovely people on this forum, there is a real mixture of the DAWs being used, including, Logic Pro, Cubase, Studio One, Reaper, FL Studio, Ableton, Mixcraft, Bitwig, Digital Performer and Cakewalk.
> 
> Most who have used Cakewalk agree it is a fully fledged DAW, that totally can be used instead of any of the other DAWs I mentioned above. If someone is on Windows and just starting out it is the one I would recommend to start with. In the end people pick their DAW based on, the User Experience, UI (some people do prefer prettier DAWs), features and workflow. It just depends on what works for you, what compromises you are willing to have and how much you want to spend.


Well many people who I have talked to - and this is sadly true (not here tho') - go out of their way to make anyone that uses anything less than them are hacks (when they use Logic and Mac). Or at least that's the way they try to make you feel. Maybe I've run in the wrong crowds. Wouldn't be the first time for me. And I understand but still Cakewalk gets put on the back burner among ALL DAWS seems to me. And I wish there was more about it out there as I am trying to learn it. I can learn by doing but I'm old and running out of time - know what I mean!! LOL!! So time is of the essence indeed. I understand that every DAW is different and each individual user finds what works for them. Just that I don't seem to see Cakewalk getting what I think it really deserves among other users. But it's all good. I know what works for me but fight to learn and keep up when they improve it or add features all the time - a LOT of which I haven't even discovered yet. But I press on regardless. Thanks for the clarification.


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## Markrs (Jul 13, 2021)

TonyDeConcini said:


> Well many people who I have talked to - and this is sadly true (not here tho') - go out of their way to make anyone that uses anything less than them are hacks (when they use Logic and Mac). Or at least that's the way they try to make you feel. Maybe I've run in the wrong crowds. Wouldn't be the first time for me. And I understand but still Cakewalk gets put on the back burner among ALL DAWS seems to me. And I wish there was more about it out there as I am trying to learn it. I can learn by doing but I'm old and running out of time - know what I mean!! LOL!! So time is of the essence indeed. I understand that every DAW is different and each individual user finds what works for them. Just that I don't seem to see Cakewalk getting what I think it really deserves among other users. But it's all good. I know what works for me but fight to learn and keep up when they improve it or add features all the time - a LOT of which I haven't even discovered yet. But I press on regardless. Thanks for the clarification.


Totally understand, every now and then mini arguments break out over what is the best DAW, but most agree here that it really depends on the individual. Cakewalk does deserve more attention, it is crazy that a DAW that is equal for most tasks of DAWs that for $400+ is free. But then, given the cost of sample libraries, the DAW isn't the biggest cost most on here will have.

As to tutorials, there are a couple of good YouTube channels worth exploring.

Creative Sauce
Home Studio Simplified

Here are some playlists of videos on Cakewalk:


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## TonyDeConcini (Jul 13, 2021)

Markrs said:


> Totally understand, every now and then mini arguments break out over what is the best DAW, but most agree here that it really depends on the individual. Cakewalk does deserve more attention, it is crazy that a DAW that is equal for most tasks of DAWs that for $400+ is free. But then, given the cost of sample libraries, the DAW isn't the biggest cost most on here will have.
> 
> As to tutorials, there are a couple of good YouTube channels worth exploring.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links - I DO however, watch both these guys incessantly and a few others on YouTube. It's the only way I've been able to work through some of these things. But Cakewalk changes monthly almost and then there's something new. Heck, I've as yet to get through some of the basic functionality. I mean I HAVE made headway - just not fast enough - especially where there is little to learn from. I'm not lazy - just as I said - time for me is of the essence at my age. Never know. But then I don't plan to leave any MAJOR works behind - this is just what keeps me (in part) from getting old and sitting on the front porch in the rocking chair while the world passes by and time just slips away. NOT about to be old ever - whether I am or not. THANKS AGAIN for the reply.


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## dyvoid (Jul 14, 2021)

I agree, Cakewalk does not get the love it deserves. I've only started making music last year, and only accidentally stumbled upon Cakewalk. It barely gets a mention anywhere on lists of 'good DAWs to start with', which is bizarre, cause it's not only very full featured, but also FREE. Which is kind of ideal when you're just starting out and don't want to immediately shell out hundreds of euros for a DAW.


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## Markrs (Jul 15, 2021)

I found another playlist for Cakewalk videos on YouTube. This is a relatively new series so more will probably be added.


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## SlHarder (Jul 15, 2021)

He is up to #7. Presentation style is quick and crisp. Even though I've watched lots of CW vids I picked up new info from these. I always learn from watching others' workflows.


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## TonyDeConcini (Jul 15, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> He is up to #7. Presentation style is quick and crisp. Even though I've watched lots of CW vids I picked up new info from these. I always learn from watching others' workflows.


Thanks for the updates on this. Obviously one I've never seen before. AS for the quick style - to me, that doesn't matter. I DO know how to use this software - been using it for many years (old versions and the lite version of Sonar) but as robust as it is, it has quite a lot more than it ever did and it gets used a lot now. Yet so few think it "ranks" in the DAW of quality category and frankly I still just don't get that. But that's okay. I DO know how to use it - been working on it for much of last year. BUT there is so much more to discover and these videos that come up showing tips, tricks, and usage ideas and what-not, are valuable. I don't mind longer videos - even convoluted ones - I save the videos and have a rather extensive list of them I can refer to as I need to. And trust me, I'm smart enough to get what they're talking about but still lack the basic mixing, editing, mastering skills and the accompanying jargon or explanations of what everything means. IT IS a learning curve for me but one step at a time and I'll get there.

Anyway thanks again for the update. BY THE WAY - does anyone have any ideas WHAT is going on with the Bandlab software update for Cakewalk? I just recently did a version update a couple weeks ago it seems, and now the Bandlab Assistant shows that there is another update BUT when I click on it - it does nothing but sit there and says "downloading" yet it never gets anywhere? Any thoughts or ideas? I thought the update I did was the latest 2021.06 (Build 50) but the BL Assistant still is saying UPDATE available?? Thoughts, ideas?

THANKS


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## Markrs (Jul 15, 2021)

TonyDeConcini said:


> I just recently did a version update a couple weeks ago it seems, and now the Bandlab Assistant shows that there is another update BUT when I click on it - it does nothing but sit there and says "downloading" yet it never gets anywhere? Any thoughts or ideas? I thought the update I did was the latest 2021.06 (Build 50) but the BL Assistant still is saying UPDATE available?? Thoughts, ideas?


It happened to me too and I couldn't figure out why. as I isn't my main DAW I uninstalled cakewalk then reinstalled it and when I checked for an update it shows it as up to date.


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## TonyDeConcini (Jul 15, 2021)

Markrs said:


> It happened to me too and I couldn't figure out why. as I isn't my main DAW I uninstalled cakewalk then reinstalled it and when I checked for an update it shows it as up to date.


Well I THINK I have the latest version and am NOT going to delete Cakewalk and reinstall it. Too risky with all the software and instrument packages I have on here. Just not brave enough for that. DID that once before and it was alright - but that scares the fire out of me enough that I'll just deal with it like it is until another update comes along and supercedes what Bandlab Assistant is saying now. But thanks for the heads-up.


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## wcreed51 (Jul 15, 2021)

If you open Cakewalk and Check for Updates in the Help menu it will give you asystem tray message about and update, with a choice to download


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## TonyDeConcini (Jul 15, 2021)

wcreed51 said:


> If you open Cakewalk and Check for Updates in the Help menu it will give you asystem tray message about and update, with a choice to download


Funny you should say this - just went and did as you instructed and lo and behold it told me there WAS an update and did I want it installed!! Eureka - it downloaded, installed and works as ever. THANKS FOR THAT HEADS UP. The minute I went into the HELP section and asked it to check for updates, up it came. Now WHY in Bandlab Assistant it said there was an update but wasn't doing anything - well that's out of my wheelhouse. But opening the DAW, checking for updates triggered something. So all is right with the world again. Huzzah!!! I love it when something works like it's supposed to. Appreciate your suggestion. I knew to do that - just forgot. Says something about the fact I'm getting old I guess. Crickey!!


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## Bemused (Jul 15, 2021)

Updating from within Cakewalk itself was introduced a couple of updates ago I think. You don't need to use the Bandlab Assistant any more (Though best to keep it on your PC).
Just open up Cakewalk whilst you are online and it will check, or you can run check for updates. And it is all automatic. You are given 2 choices on the bottom right. The best one to select is install (I think the other is to d/load) as it d/loads,updates (you are asked to close Cakewalk) and installs. I've done my last 2 that way. I understand there are currently issues with Bandlab Assistant, and it looks like it may be deprecated.


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## TonyDeConcini (Jul 15, 2021)

Bemused said:


> Updating from within Cakewalk itself was introduced a couple of updates ago I think. You don't need to use the Bandlab Assistant any more (Though best to keep it on your PC).
> Just open up Cakewalk whilst you are online and it will check, or you can run check for updates. And it is all automatic. You are given 2 choices on the bottom right. The best one to select is install (I think the other is to d/load) as it d/loads,updates (you are asked to close Cakewalk) and installs. I've done my last 2 that way. I understand there are currently issues with Bandlab Assistant, and it looks like it may be deprecated.


Ah interesting updates on these issues. THANKS for that. Again, trying to keep up with Cakewalk and it outruns me all the time. Nothing new. Still absorbing, learning, trying, etc., yada, yada. But I appreciate the thoughts and remarks about all this. Sincerely need to dive in both feet on these issues and learn it once and for all. I DO like the idea of updating from within the software. I rarely if ever use Bandlab Assistant for anything other than updates up until now. Good to know. And I'll remember that for the next time.


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## SlHarder (Aug 27, 2021)

Quote from website:

"We're pleased to announce Early Access for 2021.09! This release introduces enhanced audio file export, including batch exporting, filename tokens, and a completely redesigned Export Audio dialog box, improved AudioSnap transient detection, lots of other enhancements and optimizations, and several bug fixes.

This is a huge update with major enhancements to audio export workflow, as well as Audiosnap transient detection."









[CLOSED] Cakewalk 2021.09 Early Access [Updated to build 114]


[UPDATE 22-Sep-2021: version 2021.09 has been released] Were pleased to announce Early Access for 2021.09! This release introduces enhanced audio file export, including batch exporting, filename tokens, and a completely redesigned Export Audio dialog box, improved AudioSnap transient detection, l...




discuss.cakewalk.com


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## Villanao (Aug 27, 2021)

Nice!


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## SlHarder (Aug 27, 2021)

Villanao said:


> Nice!


Yup, folks who do a lot of production are raving and cheering over on the forum about the new efficient management of complicated exports.


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## Tren (Aug 28, 2021)

I'm sorry, but did I miss the memo where people started calling Logic Pro "industry standard," or have people really gone batsh*t wrt inventing narratives to fuel their rants?

Also, Macs aren't expensive. Welcome to the M1 era of $699 Base Mac Minis that perform on par or better than i7 Intel Desktops while generating practically no heat or noise. And you can hardly find a Windows Laptop that will perform on par with an M1 MBA while being as quiet, cool, portable and offering comparable battery life while running at full performance off the charger at a comparable price - and that's assuming you don't run into DPC issues on the Windows laptop.

Not being on macOS is a legitimate issue for many people. I don't have an issue using Windows desktops, but I do like having macOS as an option because I simply think their laptops are better from a usability or portability standpoint when you need something high power that can actually work for a decent span of time off the charger (and doesn't force you to play DPC Latency Roulette).

That being said, I consider Cakewalk to be sort of the Logic Pro of the Windows Ecosystem - minus the great content Logic Pro ships with. Generally, I recommend anyone starting out start with it and only move off if necessary.

The development pace is impressive, compared to when they were owned by Gibson.


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## lexiaodong (Aug 28, 2021)

I keep emphasizing that cakewalk is a very good software. I think it can sell for $200 +, but in fact it is free now. Why not? It is my choice on my laptop! All professional functions are as excellent as any other software. By the way, I started using cakewalk in 2002，of course, I was an idiot at that time


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## Tren (Aug 28, 2021)

lexiaodong said:


> I keep emphasizing that cakewalk is a very good software. I think it can sell for $200 +, but in fact it is free now. Why not? It is my choice on my laptop! All professional functions are as excellent as any other software. By the way, I started using cakewalk in 2002，of course, I was an idiot at that time


There are various areas of Cakewalk that aren't on par with something like Cubase Pro, Logic Pro, or Digital Performer.

The fact that it's free simply makes those disparities a non-factor, since getting something better is going to cost a couple hundred dollars, anyways.

And some things can be patched with FX/Utility Plug-ins and Virtual Instruments (Samplers, Sequencers, etc.).

Now, from a business perspective, I'm not sure I'd stake my business on it... as the support isn't that great and I would rather not have to depend on their forums for support. I generally want a direct line to the actual company.

That doesn't mean the expectation of a phone number and < 4 minute wait times. I just don't do user-to-user support for business critical software applications.


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## Villanao (Aug 28, 2021)

Support is not immediate but it’s there and it’s good (through email). The parent company can definitely afford to keep development going, and their business model is to offer free products to grow their brand so I wouldn’t worry about that. Even if it does get abandoned it will probably work for another 10 years.


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## Tren (Sep 1, 2021)

Villanao said:


> Support is not immediate but it’s there and it’s good (through email). The parent company can definitely afford to keep development going, and their business model is to offer free products to grow their brand so I wouldn’t worry about that. Even if it does get abandoned it will probably work for another 10 years.


Assuming they remove BandLab authentication, but it will basically be the ACID Pro of Studio DAWs if they did this. For heavy duty use, it is still missing a lot. I just don’t think upstarts should be spending money when they can start on this. Not for free (or close to it) is as good. 

Now, if you can score a second hand copy of Studio One Pro for < $200, things change. Once you get something like Cubase or Studio One the upgrade fees are pretty low (and routinely discounted), so Cakewalk’s secret weapon is the lack of a barrier to entry.


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## lexiaodong (Sep 1, 2021)

Tren said:


> Assuming they remove BandLab authentication, but it will basically be the ACID Pro of Studio DAWs if they did this. For heavy duty use, it is still missing a lot. I just don’t think upstarts should be spending money when they can start on this. Not for free (or close to it) is as good.
> 
> Now, if you can score a second hand copy of Studio One Pro for < $200, things change. Once you get something like Cubase or Studio One the upgrade fees are pretty low (and routinely discounted), so Cakewalk’s secret weapon is the lack of a barrier to entry.


Cakewalk ≈ Studio one < Cubase pro


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## Tren (Sep 1, 2021)

lexiaodong said:


> Cakewalk ≈ Studio one < Cubase pro


Cakewalk is roughly comparable to Studio One Artist. Less features than Cubase Artist, but does have some features from Pro that can matter more than some of the extras in Cubase Artist. I guess the same could be said for it and Studio One Artist/Pro, as well.

So, if I were to tier them:

Cakewalk ~= Studio One Artist < Cubase Artist ~< Studio One Pro < Cubase Pro

That being said, Cubase Artist‘s price makes it unjustifiable, outside of specific wants there. It’s better to buy a Steinberg interface and upgrade from AI to Pro at Best Service - especially during sales.

Studio One Artist is bundled with PreSonus hardware, so many people can get it practically for free. PreSonus seems constantly having sales, these days. The integration with Notion along with its new scoring/notation features are really nice.

I actually think Cakewalk is stronger for loop-based music, these days. very underrated, there.

I wish they would split the Transport sections off and dock to the bottom of the screen and de cramp the control bar, though.


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## Freespace2 (Sep 1, 2021)

I have been using Cakewalk for a long time and never stopped using it due to lack of functionality. It is true that some features of other DAWs do not exist, but on the contrary, some features provided only by Cakewalk made me give up switching to other DAWs.

For example, as an orchestrator, the following features are most important to me: It always shows dozens of different instrumental MIDI tracks at once on the right side of the Piano Roll, allowing you to switch tracks with one click, invert the selected and non-selected tracks, and only select specific instrument parts. The ability to highlight, and if necessary, immediately call up the virtual instrument setup window associated with the desired MIDI track. All of this can be done right from the inside of Piano Roll window without going back to Track View or resizing the Piano Roll window. Any other DAW doesn't offer this features and requires a lot more mouse clicks and time to work similarly. The only digital performer was able to manage and display a list of active MIDI tracks on the right side of the piano roll, similar to Cakewalk.

If you are an orchestrator and need to implement an orchestra through MIDI and virtual instruments, I can confidently say that Cakewalk is the best choice. After Gibson abandoned Sonar, I tried to switch to other DAWs such as Cubase, Logic, Flutiloops, and Studio One, but I ended up returning to Sonar because other DAWs' MIDI programming work was too inefficient. So, I have no choice but to express my infinite gratitude to BandLab for continuing to update Cakewalk for free. And I deeply agree with the opinion that Cakewalk is underrated.

If you are curious about the music that can be made with Cakewalk and Eastwest Hollywood Orchestra, install the recently released 'Marvel Future Revolution' game and listen to the themes of Captain America, Iron Man, and Storm, or listen the OSTs of these characters to the official YouTube channel. these are the songs I made with it.


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## lychee (Sep 1, 2021)

Personally, I don't see what Cakewalk really lacks to be overlooked at this point.
Can someone tell me what is missing?


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## Freespace2 (Sep 1, 2021)

lychee said:


> Personally, I don't see what Cakewalk really lacks to be overlooked at this point.
> Can someone tell me what is missing?


There may be more if I search deeply, but the only thing I know is Cubase's trim editing feature. It looks very useful when input harp glissandos into the piano roll, and in Cakewalk you have to manually adjust each note one by one. Envelope-based tempo track/expression maps are a feature that wasn't present in Cakewalk, both of which were implemented in recent updates.

The biggest problem I have with Cakewalk is that it becomes seriously slow when there are a lot of MIDI tracks contained heavy midi controllers data(about 50-70 MIDI tracks), and when copying MIDI notes and controllers with ctrl+mouse drag at the same time. Also, most virtual instrument and plug-in companies don't seem to do much compatibility testing for Cakewalk, a non-mainstream DAW. I'm glad that Cakewalk's compatibility is good.


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## Villanao (Sep 1, 2021)

I’m testing Cakewalk to see if I can use it to some (light and inexperienced) orchestral work. Expression maps look great and the export function is up there with the best now, as is the arranger track. The only things that bother me are that the GUI tends to freeze sometimes, REAPER is much smoothe, and zooming is also weird. If you’re zoomed in close enough, cursor based zooming works fine but if you get farther away it won’t zoom into the cursor but rather to the beginning of the song. Zooming is generally clunky compared to REAPER. Navigating the project smoothly is very important to me, I will keep trying to see if I can get used to it, since I really like the features.


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## jazzman7 (Sep 1, 2021)

lychee said:


> Personally, I don't see what Cakewalk really lacks to be overlooked at this point.
> Can someone tell me what is missing?


It's free. So it is out of the commercial ecosystem and does not generate buzz, or cross promotion. You can really see how a lot of our experience of products out there are shaped by the profit motive of the companies producing them. Maybe as time wears on and folks see it's not going anywhere, CW will become part of a lot more conversations again. It's best chance for commercial buzz will be it's ongoing user base. 

Long time user here since the 90's. My biggest issue with the program these days is the clunky, unusable way you have to go about adding Neg Delay to any VI


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## Tren (Sep 1, 2021)

lychee said:


> Personally, I don't see what Cakewalk really lacks to be overlooked at this point.
> Can someone tell me what is missing?


This was discussed in another thread recently, IIRC.

*Theory Tools: Chord Pads, Chord Track, Chord Assistant, Chord Proximity Mode*
*Project Logical Editor*
_Advanced Audio Editing & Sample Editor_
AAF Support
Better ReWire Support
*Better Video Support*
*Time Warp*
*Better Performance with large Sessions and Templates*
*Import Tracks from Projects*
*Far Superior Score View/Editor*
_*Note Expression & MPE*_
_*MusicXML Import*_
*Marker, Signature, etc. Tracks*
_Pool_
_Better Metronome_
Control Room
_Better Drum Maps_
*Global Tracks*
_Sampler Track 2_
*Render In-Place*
_VariAudio 3_
*Group Editing*
*Considerably Better Automation*
SuperVision
*Automation Virgin Territories*
VCA Faders
*Better MIDI Effects*
*Video Export Render*
Then there are the things that aren't on the feature list, like far superior 3rd party support when it comes to things like MIDI Controllers, etc.

Bolded and Italicized are the things that are more relevant to people doing orchestral work, however, lots of film scoring also includes electronic music - increasingly so. This pulls in some of the things that are (only) Italicized as bigger factors.

If you actually record live orchestras, then things like VCA faders become a bigger deal, as do things like Control Room if you record any vocalists.

I ignored things like Bundled Creative, Mixing and Mastering Effects, Sample/Loop Content, and Virtual Instruments.

Beyond that, the thing people notice with Cakewalk isn't really what is missing, but the quality of what is there vs. what exists elsewhere. For example, the MIDI editing in Cubase is just... better than Cakewalk's. The score view/editor is in a different stratosphere, and I don't even think Cubase's is the best out there. Managing Markers in Cakewalk is a PITA compared to using the Marker Tracks in other DAWs. If you do any work with Audio, then its toolset is anemic compared to many of its competitors. It has pretty limited video support, and many complain about its sync capabilities (and I haven't seen any mention of this in any of the updates). Getting controllers that work out-of-the-box with many other DAWs takes a work day to get set up in Cakewalk (Faders, Knobs, Pads, buttons, etc.).

Most of that can be overlooked, because it's $0. For an upstart, it's likely good enough while they gain some experience and decide what their requirements actually are. Aforementioned, I generally tell people to start with Cakewalk and only move off of it when their requirements or workflow outgrows it.

For anyone willing to pay, then Studio One sits at a pretty middle-of-the-road price point and the v5 upgrade has really made it hard for Cakewalk to compete. Many of the improvements Studio One made were in the areas SONAR users have been begging for a decade for improvements. The fact that 75% of the DAW industry runs 40-50% off sales 2-3x a year doesn't help, either.

Accessibility to good commercial tools has gone so high that free is often not a good enough reason for people to consider something. MuseScore being free didn't stop hoards of people from buying Sibelius or Finale... and Students/Educators get educational discounts almost always.

Beyond that, it's Windows 10-only, so anyone who uses both Windows and macOS is going to go for a DAW that can run on both; while those on macOS simply don't have the option to use Cakewalk.

75% of DAW sales are likely to people entering the market to make Electronic or Popular Music, etc. Cakewalk isn't necessarily strong in many of those market segments. Ableton and FL Studio are cornering that.

Lastly... Many people are convinced REAPER is free, and it's cultish fanbase generally stalks the internet to spam its name on any thread where someone is looking for suggestions.


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## Villanao (Sep 1, 2021)

I have Studio One 5 Artist and it’s really nice, but man that CPU use sucks compared to Cakewalk and especially Reaper...


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## kitekrazy (Sep 1, 2021)

lychee said:


> Personally, I don't see what Cakewalk really lacks to be overlooked at this point.
> *Can someone tell me what is missing?*



The crappy Steinberg licensing scheme.


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## Tren (Sep 2, 2021)

Villanao said:


> I have Studio One 5 Artist and it’s really nice, but man that CPU use sucks compared to Cakewalk and especially Reaper...


Not seeing this on my machines.


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## SlHarder (Sep 2, 2021)

Tren said:


> Assuming they remove BandLab authentication,


A standalone installer for Cakewalk is just completing early access testing. You will not need a Bandlab account to install and activate Cakewalk. And there will be a provision for offline activation.


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## lychee (Sep 2, 2021)

I don't understand saying to take Cakewalk first, and then go to another DAW.
Cakewalk may not have the efficiency of this or that DAW, but you can do anything with it and the purpose will be the same.
So, either we go to the sequencer that best suits our desires from the start to avoid wasting time re-learning.
Either we can choose Cakewalk for free, knowing that if it is not perfect, it remains a very complete professional software (and free, I repeat).


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## Tren (Sep 2, 2021)

lychee said:


> I don't understand saying to take Cakewalk first, and then go to another DAW.
> Cakewalk may not have the efficiency of this or that DAW, but you can do anything with it and the purpose will be the same.
> So, either we go to the sequencer that best suits our desires from the start to avoid wasting time re-learning.
> Either we can choose Cakewalk for free, knowing that if it is not perfect, it remains a very complete professional software (and free, I repeat).


Can you read?

Start with Cakewalk and move on only if required. That can help avoid unnecessary spending. If you need better, you can move on. The move from Cakewalk to Cubase (e.g.) doesn’t come with a huge learning curve.

Pretty sure this was stated just as blatantly in my earlier post.

First you say it’s feature comparable to anything else, when it’s not. Now you’re complaining about totally logical advice because the end result can be someone going to another DAW? I’m not a DAW politician. The guidance is valid.

People use DAWs to make money. DAWs are also a drop in the bucket when it comes to cost for film composers, etc.

Cakewalk being free is ignorable for a professional, and only mentionable for upstarts who are entering the market and need experience to determine what their needs and requirements are. For professionals, the features Cubase Pro has will pay for the DAW, and more, in increased productivity and workflow efficiency. They will go straight there, just as EDM producers will go straight to Ableton, FL Studio, or Bitwig and Recording or Mixing Engineers will go to Pro Tools.


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## Tren (Sep 2, 2021)

SlHarder said:


> A standalone installer for Cakewalk is just completing early access testing. You will not need a Bandlab account to install and activate Cakewalk. And there will be a provision for offline activation.


It still requires BandLab authentication. That part is built into the DAW now, several updates ago. The standalone installer avoids the need to use BandLab Assistant for installation.


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## lychee (Sep 2, 2021)

Tren said:


> Can you read?


No, I am illiterate, besides I do not know how I managed to write these texts.


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## Tren (Sep 2, 2021)

lychee said:


> No, I am illiterate, besides I do not know how I managed to write these texts.


Rhetorical question are a concept. It's a literary device. Pun intended, considering your... non-response.

I know you can read and write (though comprehension is up for debate).

The actual implied question is "*Why are you responding as if you haven't read anything?*"

If you can't bother to read the posts from the people representing the point of view you don't seem to "get," then OF COURSE you are not going to understand that point of view (and will have questions as a result of that lack of understanding).

Close-minded dialog gets you no where... Unless that was intended as a troll-lite reponse from you. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on that, though.


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## SlHarder (Sep 2, 2021)

Gentlepersons, as the originator of this thread, can I ask that the discussion doesn't drift away from the original topic, which is to keep folks informed of new updates to Cakewalk.

Thank you


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## lychee (Sep 2, 2021)

Tren​
I admit that it is possible that I misunderstood you, not being English I am using a translator to communicate here.
My post about my misunderstanding to use Cakewalk and ultimately abandon it for another DAW was a simple question that was not controversial.
I apologize if you took my words wrong, but I admit that I also had trouble with the tone of your answers.
I think it's time to bury the hatchet and as SlHarder suggests, get back to the subject.


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## kitekrazy (Sep 3, 2021)

lychee said:


> I don't understand saying to take Cakewalk first, and then go to another DAW.
> Cakewalk may not have the efficiency of this or that DAW, but you can do anything with it and the purpose will be the same.
> So, either we go to the sequencer that best suits our desires from the start to avoid wasting time re-learning.
> Either we can choose Cakewalk for free, knowing that if it is not perfect, it remains a very complete professional software (and free, I repeat).


Those who fled when Gibson crucified Sonar are returning. Sure it's a free DAW but it's backed by a wealthy guy. It is being developed by the former Sonar team.


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## Kevin Fortin (Sep 21, 2021)

Freespace2 said:


> For example, as an orchestrator, the following features are most important to me: It always shows dozens of different instrumental MIDI tracks at once on the right side of the Piano Roll, allowing you to switch tracks with one click, invert the selected and non-selected tracks, and only select specific instrument parts. The ability to highlight, and if necessary, immediately call up the virtual instrument setup window associated with the desired MIDI track. All of this can be done right from the inside of Piano Roll window without going back to Track View or resizing the Piano Roll window. Any other DAW doesn't offer this features and requires a lot more mouse clicks and time to work similarly. The only digital performer was able to manage and display a list of active MIDI tracks on the right side of the piano roll, similar to Cakewalk.


It was cool to learn of that feature the other day from one of the Creative Sauce videos on YouTube. (I have just recently installed Cakewalk and am putting some time into really learning it.)


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## Kevin Fortin (Sep 21, 2021)

Freespace2 said:


> There may be more if I search deeply, but the only thing I know is Cubase's trim editing feature. It looks very useful when input harp glissandos into the piano roll, and in Cakewalk you have to manually adjust each note one by one. Envelope-based tempo track/expression maps are a feature that wasn't present in Cakewalk, both of which were implemented in recent updates.


Cakewalk already has the Transform tool for modifying velocities -- I wonder if they could find a way to flip it on its side for use in the piano roll to scale or skew note info horizontally. Or maybe something could be done with the Line tool?


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## wst3 (Sep 22, 2021)

I used Sonar since before it was called Sonar. I ponied up for the lifetime subscription. There are very few shortcomings that get in my way. Very few!

AND... I find Cubase to be quite difficult to use. The workflow is not a match for me. Which is fine, it doesn't make Cubase bad, just a sub-optimal choice for me.

When Gibson bailed I moved to Studio One. I had used the trial version and I was really impressed with the workflow. There are changes I wish they'd make, but that was true for Cakewalk & Sonar.

By the time Bandlab acquired Sonar I was pretty well immersed in Studio One and the version upgrades have been really well thought out (mostly).

So now I find myself using both. I use Sonar to open old projects, and when I just want to dink around. I use Studio One if I am starting a new project - well, most of the time.

To return to the topic at hand - I really appreciate this thread! I have not tried all the pre-release updates, but I've tried a few, and I've had no problems. I can not imagine abandoning Cakewalk completely, but I do feel less anxious now that I have a second platform. Just in case<G>!

disclaimer - I was a beta tester for Cakewalk for a number of years, and got to know the development teams. I trust Noel completely. When he tells me he has the resources to continue development I trust him.


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## SlHarder (Sep 23, 2021)

Cakewalk 2021.09 release is available.









2021.09 [Updated 4-Oct-2021]


[UPDATE 4-Oct-2021: Cakewalk 2021.09 Update 1 (build 27.09.0.145) now available] Were pleased to announce the 2021.09 release! This release includes enhanced audio file export, batch exporting, filename tokens, completely redesigned Export Audio and bounce dialogs, improved AudioSnap transient de...




discuss.cakewalk.com


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## Kevin Fortin (Sep 23, 2021)

Note: This update cannot be done through Bandlab Assistant (I and others have learned), even though BA will show that an update is available.

If Cakewalk is already installed, check for updates through its help menu. It went very quickly for me, and I didn't have to browse for the download to install it -- Cakewalk took care of all that.

If Cakewalk is not already installed, check the Cakewalk forum for their new web-based installer, which is what will be used for new Cakewalk installations from now on.


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## Kevin Fortin (Sep 23, 2021)

kitekrazy said:


> Those who fled when Gibson crucified Sonar are returning. Sure it's a free DAW but it's backed by a wealthy guy. It is being developed by the former Sonar team.


Coming this Fall: "Cakewalk Resurrections"

Maybe we should try to get @doctoremmet interested in this. Cakewalk does have lots of panels one can open and close, similar to Melda plugins.


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