# Ryan Leach July 2022 composing competition



## Markrs

@ryanleachmusic is running his composing competition again during the month of July. There are a few prizes though it is really about taking part.

The competiton is judged on:

Composition
Production
Relevance to the image
A selection of finalists will be chosen and on Wednesday August 10th at 1pm EDT Ryan will be joined by Christopher Siu, Gavin Leeper, and Mark Richards for a livestream event!

There is also a Discord which has an area to discuss the competition: https://discord.gg/YCpmQVepu9

AizerX: Classical Trailer Toolkit as a prize!

Submission form: https://forms.gle/SZK4bzhw4aYfUor16

Below is the image to use as inspiration.


----------



## Manfred

Good luck all!


----------



## damirexus

I'm in! I will post my submission in Compositions Thread.


----------



## The Retroblueman

That's got me wondering actually... Anyone have any views/preferences on whether entries should be shared in the compositions category or on this thread? Mine's nearly done baking (had some eerily similar ideas to Damirexus it turns out)


----------



## damirexus

The Retroblueman said:


> That's got me wondering actually... Anyone have any views/preferences on whether entries should be shared in the compositions category or on this thread? Mine's nearly done baking (had some eerily similar ideas to Damirexus it turns out)


There is a GoogleForm provided by Ryan where you should input information and submit your audio. Looking forward to hear your work. 

Here is the link: https://forms.gle/SZK4bzhw4aYfUor16


----------



## The Retroblueman

damirexus said:


> There is a GoogleForm provided by Ryan where you should input information and submit your audio. Looking forward to hear your work.
> 
> Here is the link: https://forms.gle/SZK4bzhw4aYfUor16


Thanks D (and good job on yours)! - I knew about the form for Ryan's purposes- was thinking more about where to share it on this forum...


----------



## damirexus

The Retroblueman said:


> Thanks D (and good job on yours)! - I knew about the form for Ryan's purposes- was thinking more about where to share it on this forum...


Welcome! You can share it on my thread so we can have them there nicely. I can rename my post so everyone can share their submissions there.


----------



## blaggins

Who all of us vi-folk are participating? I'd love to listen to a few entries now that mine is done.




damirexus said:


> Welcome! You can share it on my thread so we can have them there nicely. I can rename my post so everyone can share their submissions there.


Can we share in here instead? I personally think it's nice to have a competition thread with entries since then they are all nicely organized in one place. (Can you tell I'm a bit OCD?)


----------



## The Retroblueman

tpoots said:


> Who all of us vi-folk are participating? I'd love to listen to a few entries now that mine is done.
> 
> 
> 
> Can we share in here instead? I personally think it's nice to have a competition thread with entries since then they are all nicely organized in one place. (Can you tell I'm a bit OCD?)


Happy with what upsets the fewest people! @damirexus what do you think? Should we move our party over here? - we've been (extremely politely) upbraided twice now... 

@tpoots - looking forward to hearing your entry!


----------



## Markrs

Please do share your entries on here. We normally share competition submissions under the specific competition thread.


----------



## Germain B

Alright, I didn't expect to have time to participate, but the artwork was inspiring and it was quickly done.
It was a lot of fun :


----------



## blaggins

I really like your piece @Germain B, especially the little percussive bits and the way you mixed them in (noticing maybe a heavier use of reverb on the percussion? Whatever you did it gives it a distinctive sound that I enjoy). You've got a very Joe Hisaishi sounding ostinato in there too!

For what it's worth here's my completed entry:


I was attempting to use "jazzy" extensions on the chord progression to give a little bit of character (perhaps a touch of melancholy maybe?) My favorite Studio Ghibli soundtracks are full of this kind of thing, although I'm not sure that I actually succeeded in accomplishing what I wanted to there... Also I'm feeling like I might have taken the orchestration in a more bombastic direction than I originally intended.  Heh.

I started with a piano sketch in Dorico for the first time ever, and it was really nice to do it this way. I liked the workflow, although Dorico is very slow for me b/c I haven't learned any of the shortcuts yet.


----------



## damirexus

tpoots said:


> Who all of us vi-folk are participating? I'd love to listen to a few entries now that mine is done.
> 
> 
> 
> Can we share in here instead? I personally think it's nice to have a competition thread with entries since then they are all nicely organized in one place. (Can you tell I'm a bit OCD?)


I'm totally fine with sharing here. Just thought that Members Composition section would be more appropriate for this content. But I guess this one also makes sense... 

@The Retroblueman - yeah, let's share here so we have all in one place although I listen a lot on youtube already  

Here is my entry:



Good luck all!


----------



## Germain B

tpoots said:


> I really like your piece @Germain B, especially the little percussive bits and the way you mixed them in (noticing maybe a heavier use of reverb on the percussion? Whatever you did it gives it a distinctive sound that I enjoy). You've got a very Joe Hisaishi sounding ostinato in there too!


Thanks ! This little ostinato is actually what convinced me that I should give it a try.
Yes, the percussions are mixed more distant and wetter from the mics' choice and the little bit more send to a specific reverb than the rest of the orchestra.
It's all Orchestral Tools, and basically, while I mix Close/ORTF with a bit of Tree for other sections, percussions are all Tree And/or Surround.

I really enjoyed your piece, too ! Quite entertaining. The melody and harmonies work great with the atmosphere of the artwork and that break in the middle is great.


----------



## PeteH

Here's my second attempt, the first became way too dramatic.


----------



## The Retroblueman

Adding mine to the fine collection above- very well done all!


----------



## Harmony7

Think I'll share mine as well, had a lot of fun working on this one.


----------



## RudyS

Here is the one I made. As a beginner, it took me quite some time, but an educational experience nonetheless! Feedback is highly appreciated! Really nice to hear what ideas other people had!


----------



## Kevperry777

Was fun to take part in this…I certainly learn a lot each time!


----------



## Alex84

My entry , a little bit mysterious.


----------



## RudyS

Alex84 said:


> My entry , a little bit mysterious.


Interesting instrumentation!


----------



## Alex84

Thank you!
I used vocals (Omen), Bawu (East West Silk), Violins (Arturia Augmented Strings) and harp (ha*pi).
Actually this is one of my first finished compositions, if not the first one at all.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Alex84 said:


> Thank you!
> I used vocals (Omen), Bawu (East West Silk), Violins (Arturia Augmented Strings) and harp (ha*pi).
> Actually this is one of my first finished compositions, if not the first one at all.


I haven't listened to it yet - I'm still finishing my entry and I'm afraid to listen to anyone else's until I'm finished - but congratulations on not only completing one of, if not the, first composition. Not only that, but you are sharing it publicly, which is always a good idea for both satisfaction and possible feedback, _and_ submitting it for a competition. That's really brilliant! May there be many more compositions to come!


----------



## Alex84

Bee_Abney said:


> I haven't listened to it yet - I'm still finishing my entry and I'm afraid to listen to anyone else's until I'm finished - but congratulations on not only completing one of, if not the, first composition. Not only that, but you are sharing it publicly, which is always a good idea for both satisfaction and possible feedback, _and_ submitting it for a competition. That's really brilliant! May there be many more compositions to come!


Thank you so much! 
Yes, i thought it is the best way to break my habits, not finishing, not even starting mostly.
So nice from Ryan Leach and this forum, where i red about it, to help me overcome it.

I already listened to a few other ones, really nice interpretations of this image.
I also got some nice and detailed feedback on the Discord server.


----------



## RudyS

Alex84 said:


> Thank you!
> I used vocals (Omen), Bawu (East West Silk), Violins (Arturia Augmented Strings) and harp (ha*pi).
> Actually this is one of my first finished compositions, if not the first one at all.


Congratulations. I also finished just a few pieces. These competitions really help to finish music.


----------



## Bee_Abney




----------



## weeeeve

Here's my entry for the Ryan Leach July 2022 competition. 



Steven


----------



## Germain B

Your first piece, @Alex84 ! Congrats ! You really got an atmosphere, here.
I was expecting a change at some point but anyway, this is unique.

@Bee_Abney I wasn't expecting less from you but I'm still surprised ! Again, a really distinctive sound. I wish I could have that kind of creativity.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Germain B said:


> Your first piece, @Alex84 ! Congrats ! You really got an atmosphere, here.
> I was expecting a change at some point but anyway, this is unique.
> 
> @Bee_Abney I wasn't expecting less from you but I'm still surprised ! Again, a really distinctive sound. I wish I could have that kind of creativity.


You're too kind. It was a beast to mix! Lots EQ to avoid masking and some mud still got through.

I'll listen to the other entries here tomorrow. For now, my ears want a rest!


----------



## Jacob Fanto

Pretty proud of this one, having started and finished in just about 48 hours. Went for a Ghibli/Zelda vibe. Form is pretty shit though lol, 90 second max is certainly tough in that respect.


----------



## Loïc D

And here's mine.

I didn't plan to enter the competition, but I wanted to take a break from my current project, so...

Influence is pretty obvious. I did it for the sheer pleasure of this picture & style.



It took me around 8-9 hours.
2-3h for the core (piano and lead instruments)
4-5h for the details, rewrites and the mixing
1h for the video editing, publishing, etc.

I hope you'll enjoy and good luck to everyone.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Germain B said:


> Alright, I didn't expect to have time to participate, but the artwork was inspiring and it was quickly done.
> It was a lot of fun :



Very nice rhythms - and the strings are doing some really nice things, with pretty woodwinds in the foreground. You capture nicely the sense of establishing a locale/community bustling away before introducing a more heroic theme. Good stuff!


----------



## Bee_Abney

tpoots said:


> I really like your piece @Germain B, especially the little percussive bits and the way you mixed them in (noticing maybe a heavier use of reverb on the percussion? Whatever you did it gives it a distinctive sound that I enjoy). You've got a very Joe Hisaishi sounding ostinato in there too!
> 
> For what it's worth here's my completed entry:
> 
> 
> I was attempting to use "jazzy" extensions on the chord progression to give a little bit of character (perhaps a touch of melancholy maybe?) My favorite Studio Ghibli soundtracks are full of this kind of thing, although I'm not sure that I actually succeeded in accomplishing what I wanted to there... Also I'm feeling like I might have taken the orchestration in a more bombastic direction than I originally intended.  Heh.
> 
> I started with a piano sketch in Dorico for the first time ever, and it was really nice to do it this way. I liked the workflow, although Dorico is very slow for me b/c I haven't learned any of the shortcuts yet.



It did get a little bombastic at the very end, but I'd describe more as bouncy before that. I do like the chords you've gone for and there is a lot of joy and prettiness in the piece. Well done!


----------



## Bee_Abney

damirexus said:


> I'm totally fine with sharing here. Just thought that Members Composition section would be more appropriate for this content. But I guess this one also makes sense...
> 
> @The Retroblueman - yeah, let's share here so we have all in one place although I listen a lot on youtube already
> 
> Here is my entry:
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck all!



Well done - full of drama. That chap has had a hard time of, been heroic during it all, and now gets to go home to be ignored by his parents - his dad is watching golf and his mum is always on the phone dealing with other people's problems.

I _may_ be projecting...

But, yes great drama with a little darkness and a lot of adventure.


----------



## Bee_Abney

PeteH said:


> Here's my second attempt, the first became way too dramatic.



There's a heck of a lot of variety in this for such a short piece, but it all builds and transitions so well (was that a gong I heard at one point, or just a really big cymbal?) and has an underlying consistency. Very good structuring and good, emotive music.


----------



## Bee_Abney

The Retroblueman said:


> Adding mine to the fine collection above- very well done all!



Ha! Just I was settling in to a fairly cozy bit of shepherding fun, Wagner turned up and everything got heroic! Very clever stuff which worked well.


----------



## The Retroblueman

Bee_Abney said:


> Ha! Just I was settling in to a fairly cozy bit of shepherding fun, Wagner turned up and everything got heroic! Very clever stuff which worked well.


Thanks Bee - yours was great too! Brain full of Bridgerton at the moment - this feels like a distant memory - dying to see what you do with that!


----------



## Bee_Abney

The Retroblueman said:


> Thanks Bee - yours was great too! Brain full of Bridgerton at the moment - this feels like a distant memory - dying to see what you do with that!


Dubstep.


----------



## Bee_Abney

weeeeve said:


> Here's my entry for the Ryan Leach July 2022 competition.
> 
> 
> 
> Steven



Wow! It starts off building magically, and then turns in to a full-one theme tune, before becoming somewhat more madrigal-ish with the constant theme and the different varying backings. I'd have been strongly tempted to vary the theme itself as well; but that might not have worked nearly so well.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Harmony7 said:


> Think I'll share mine as well, had a lot of fun working on this one.



You've managed to combine fairy tales and Celtic music into old Hollywood beauty. Really nice.


----------



## blaggins

Bee_Abney said:


> Wow! It starts off building magically, and then turns in to a full-one theme tune, before becoming somewhat more madrigal-ish with the constant theme and the different varying backings. I'd have been strongly tempted to vary the theme itself as well; but that might not have worked nearly so well.


Yeah that one has a magical intro! Well done @weeeeve


----------



## Bee_Abney

RudyS said:


> Here is the one I made. As a beginner, it took me quite some time, but an educational experience nonetheless! Feedback is highly appreciated! Really nice to hear what ideas other people had!



Great work! That has a really interesting rhythm to it and it matches the feel of the picture really well. Although, it may be somewhat darker in the main theme than I'd have expected - there's darkness at the edge of the picture, the shadows where the rider is, but the homestead/village/thing is in the sun. There's nothing wrong with that reading, though, it just combines different parts of the picture (as I see them) into the one main theme.

I've got a couple of bits of what I hope is constructive criticism. First is the frequency range. A lot of my sense of darkness came from the fact that the higher frequencies are quite muted - including the high mids. This is partly because of the instruments use and partly, perhaps, to do with the production. As an artistic choice, this is great. But if not, you might consider allowing some instruments that shine in the higher frequencies (not necessarily higher pitched) to play a larger role at times; or address it with EQ and such.

The other suggestion concerns midi instrumentation and samples. The main dah, dah, dah-da dah could be more cleaning articulated with a stronger or faster attack on at least so of the instruments. This can be done in part with a transient designer and in part with attending to the where the transients hit in the samples - it is not always at the beginning of the midi note - and adjusting accordingly.

Just some thoughts, since you asked for feedback! It may be useful to consider these points even if you reject them. I only listened a couple of times and I'm no expert.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Kevperry777 said:


> Was fun to take part in this…I certainly learn a lot each time!



Brilliant! This reminded me a lot of higher budget children's adventures from the '80s. The kind that would have a budget for an orchestrated theme tune. The music showed a range of moods that a film or TV programme might move through, and it has a lot of spirit to it.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Alex84 said:


> My entry , a little bit mysterious.


Now, that's my cup of meade! Dark in places, but with light too; some Nordic and Celtic influences and wonderful East Asian ones too. I feel a little like I've been inducted into a cult, now, though. Again.

I'd love to be able to offer some more intelligent feedback but I think this works really well as a piece. I do have two ideas, but I'm not sure if they are up to much.

The first is that I think that the throat-singing voice is overused. It is such a powerful sound, and very distinctive, and I think it would have maintained its impact better over the whole piece if it had been used less. Bring another, lighter voice into play would have helped space out the throat singing. Or, possibly, another solo instrument other than the bawu to bring a new flavour in between appearances of the voice. An erhu would have the right tone and pitch for what I'm thinking of; but lots of other things could work.

The second thought is really a question about how far this music matches the picture. The artist (I think) and the style is quiet East Asian, even if the characters - especially the shepherd - look very European. The images depicted could be taken as having varying meaning. I definitely pick up on spirituality, but also a sense of technology of some kinds - wind based! And the rider seems to be at odds with it somehow - returning, visiting, whatever. For me, your music captured part of how I respond to the picture rather than the whole of it. For you, it may well have been spot on; in which case don't worry about this!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Jacob Fanto said:


> Pretty proud of this one, having started and finished in just about 48 hours. Went for a Ghibli/Zelda vibe. Form is pretty shit though lol, 90 second max is certainly tough in that respect.



Fabulous. Jazz, classical, harmonic complexity, lots of changing rhythms and the theme-like part comes in quite late but is established clearly immediately.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Loïc D said:


> And here's mine.
> 
> I didn't plan to enter the competition, but I wanted to take a break from my current project, so...
> 
> Influence is pretty obvious. I did it for the sheer pleasure of this picture & style.
> 
> 
> 
> It took me around 8-9 hours.
> 2-3h for the core (piano and lead instruments)
> 4-5h for the details, rewrites and the mixing
> 1h for the video editing, publishing, etc.
> 
> I hope you'll enjoy and good luck to everyone.



Somehow you combined a New York comedy with adventure in a fantasy world! Lots of intrigue and action in the music! Very nice.


----------



## weeeeve

Bee_Abney said:


> Wow! It starts off building magically, and then turns in to a full-one theme tune, before becoming somewhat more madrigal-ish with the constant theme and the different varying backings. I'd have been strongly tempted to vary the theme itself as well; but that might not have worked nearly so well.


Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and write a response!
My original intent for the woowind quartet in the middle was some sort of counterpoint to provide an alternate theme. But after an hour of work, i was laughing at how awful it was, and so decided to go with something more silly. :^)
Steven


----------



## Bee_Abney

I hope you all don't mind my going through and commenting on every submission here. It was very useful for me as a learning experience, and it seems like a big part of entering a competition should be engaging with the other entries and seeing what wonders they have to offer.

I also hope I didn't miss anyone!


----------



## Kevperry777

Bee_Abney said:


> Brilliant! This reminded me a lot of higher budget children's adventures from the '80s. The kind that would have a budget for an orchestrated theme tune. The music showed a range of moods that a film or TV programme might move through, and it has a lot of spirit to it.


Thank you for the kind words Bee. As a child of the 80’s myself, some might have seeped through! Lol.


----------



## weeeeve

Just finished listening to all the entries posted here. 
In every entry, there was something that made me think "That's so nice!" So many great melodies, and harmonies, and creative approaches. 
Being new to composing outside of the jazz and rock world, this has been a wonderful, eye and ear opening experience!
Steven


----------



## Loïc D

Bee_Abney said:


> Somehow you combined a New York comedy with adventure in a fantasy world! Lots of intrigue and action in the music! Very nice.


Thanks Bee for the kind words, on behalf of everyone.
Well that was a funny little contest


----------



## blaggins

Agreed @Bee_Abney it's always extremely nice to receive a little feedback. I find it really hard self-evaluate and self-judge, because I can't hear what I can't hear until someone points it out.


----------



## Bee_Abney

tpoots said:


> Agreed @Bee_Abney it's always extremely nice to receive a little feedback. I find it really hard self-evaluate and self-judge, because I can't hear what I can't hear until someone points it out.


So true. Also, I can't hear problems in a piece I've heard a dozen times plus. Until after I submit it. Then, I can hear them suddenly!


----------



## Kevperry777

Bee_Abney said:


>



Really enjoyed this…this transported me to another place. I need a long cup of coffee and to watch an artist like you in process to see how your mind and craft works creating this. So refreshing.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Kevperry777 said:


> Really enjoyed this…this transported me to another place. I need a long cup of coffee and to watch an artist like you in process to see how your mind and craft works creating this. So refreshing.


Thank you, that's very kind!


----------



## PeteH

Bee_Abney said:


> There's a heck of a lot of variety in this for such a short piece, but it all builds and transitions so well (was that a gong I heard at one point, or just a really big cymbal?) and has an underlying consistency. Very good structuring and good, emotive music.


Thank you, I think the variety stems from my short attention span! Sadly, no gongs were used.


----------



## RudyS

Bee_Abney said:


> Great work! That has a really interesting rhythm to it and it matches the feel of the picture really well. Although, it may be somewhat darker in the main theme than I'd have expected - there's darkness at the edge of the picture, the shadows where the rider is, but the homestead/village/thing is in the sun. There's nothing wrong with that reading, though, it just combines different parts of the picture (as I see them) into the one main theme.
> 
> I've got a couple of bits of what I hope is constructive criticism. First is the frequency range. A lot of my sense of darkness came from the fact that the higher frequencies are quite muted - including the high mids. This is partly because of the instruments use and partly, perhaps, to do with the production. As an artistic choice, this is great. But if not, you might consider allowing some instruments that shine in the higher frequencies (not necessarily higher pitched) to play a larger role at times; or address it with EQ and such.
> 
> The other suggestion concerns midi instrumentation and samples. The main dah, dah, dah-da dah could be more cleaning articulated with a stronger or faster attack on at least so of the instruments. This can be done in part with a transient designer and in part with attending to the where the transients hit in the samples - it is not always at the beginning of the midi note - and adjusting accordingly.
> 
> Just some thoughts, since you asked for feedback! It may be useful to consider these points even if you reject them. I only listened a couple of times and I'm no expert.


Thank you very much for taking the time to give feedback to everybody. I listened to all clips in this thread, but don't find myself capable of giving feedback. Very nice that you did this, because this really helps. 

About your feedback on my piece, I really agree. Actually these are the points I struggled with the most I think. I used Appasionata strings and BBC So core for the most part. For me it was also a bit muffled, especially when I used some reference tracks while mixing. I ended up boosting the highs on the master quite some dB's already. Probably to do with my orchestration. 

About the that attack and transient, I agree. This was also something I struggled with. Also, I think I messed it up a bit as well. I played everything in live, but at some point corrected it by quantising it and using (a bit random) track delays. That didn't help. Still not sure about my workflow for this. Thanks again!


----------



## Bee_Abney

RudyS said:


> Thank you very much for taking the time to give feedback to everybody. I listened to all clips in this thread, but don't find myself capable of giving feedback. Very nice that you did this, because this really helps.
> 
> About your feedback on my piece, I really agree. Actually these are the points I struggled with the most I think. I used Appasionata strings and BBC So core for the most part. For me it was also a bit muffled, especially when I used some reference tracks while mixing. I ended up boosting the highs on the master quite some dB's already. Probably to do with my orchestration.
> 
> About the that attack and transient, I agree. This was also something I struggled with. Also, I think I messed it up a bit as well. I played everything in live, but at some point corrected it by quantising it and using (a bit random) track delays. That didn't help. Still not sure about my workflow for this. Thanks again!


You'll figure that out. It is trickier with some libraries than others. You can always start a thread to see what others have been doing with Apassionata - which otherwise sounds very nice.


----------



## ChickenAndARoll

Here is my entry, had to use a tritone substitution in there because J A Z Z


----------



## Bee_Abney

ChickenAndARoll said:


> Here is my entry, had to use a tritone substitution in there because J A Z Z


I love the anime-esque woodwinds! That's a lot of fun; it really brings out the lighter side of the image and keeps the adventure in the brass and snare.


----------



## Shachah

I am still new into this and this is my first time posting a piece in this community (after watching Ryan Leachs tips how to finish ideas).

I am happy to learn and receive feedback from you guys. This was a fun one!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Shachah said:


> I am still new into this and this is my first time posting a piece in this community (after watching Ryan Leachs tips how to finish ideas).
> 
> I am happy to learn and receive feedback from you guys. This was a fun one!


This is a really great match for the picture! Lovely sounds and a great melody that manages to be epic, heroic, reflective and melancholy. Perfect for high fantasy.


----------



## Shachah

Bee_Abney said:


> This is a really great match for the picture! Lovely sounds and a great melody that manages to be epic, heroic, reflective and melancholy. Perfect for high fantasy.


Thank you so much, very appreciated ! 

Do you have any tips in terms of mixing and mastering? I have no idea what I need to do, once the musical composition is finished unto that part.
Like using EQ, reverb, panning, stereo image, compressor, limiter, adjusting right volume for streaming etc... I have watched videos, but it is still a riddle for me.

If you have feedback concerning those areas in my track I think I can learn a lot from it!


----------



## Andy Ho

A newbie here looking for advise.

This is my take on it, sounded a bit darker then a lot of the work in here. Any thoughts ?


----------



## Bee_Abney

Shachah said:


> Thank you so much, very appreciated !
> 
> Do you have any tips in terms of mixing and mastering? I have no idea what I need to do, once the musical composition is finished unto that part.
> Like using EQ, reverb, panning, stereo image, compressor, limiter, adjusting right volume for streaming etc... I have watched videos, but it is still a riddle for me.
> 
> If you have feedback concerning those areas in my track I think I can learn a lot from it!


I'll get back to you with some thoughts later - possibly tomorrow. I'll need a little bit of time to order my thoughts. Do bear in mind that I'm still new to that side of things myself; I've just been very actively working on it as it is really an essential part of most of my compositions.

My background is as a guitar player - mostly acoustic, and live. So I've been working my way up a steep learning curve since I started working with a DAW about eighteen months ago. I've learned a lot from the folks on this forum.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Andy Ho said:


> A newbie here looking for advise.
> 
> This is my take on it, sounded a bit darker then a lot of the work in here. Any thoughts ?



That is very beautiful! I love how there are hints at sci-fi up until the wooden flutes come in and then we are pulled to the east - not quite Chinese or Japanese, maybe Tibet or South-East Asia - and the fantasy element becomes confirmed. 

The 'propellers' or 'windmills' in the picture made me think of a kind of advanced technology. Not steampunk so much as airpunk, so I think the synthetic sounds are a great choice, as is mixing them with the acoustic samples.

A lot of people, including me, have used woodwinds prominently, and that just seems very natural in relation to the shepherd, but also to capture a sense of the open field and all that air. Plus, wooden flutes match the trees nicely.

So I think you've done something really good.

I did wonder at some of the timing of the second flute - I wasn't sure it was hitting precisely where it should. Also, having both play at the same time means that they are competing for space. Which is great for a flute section, but might not work so well with just the two. This is a taste thing, of course; but I'd have made the second instrument a reed one to create a distinction. If a suona can be played softely enough, that would have worked.

It is very dark until the flute starts. Which I love, but I would also consider adding something a little further up the frequency range - some little sparkles, perhaps - so that the beginning is sonically fuller and a better match for what is to come. One way of doing is could just be to add air to a layer of the synths. You can do this by adding a very narrow spike in the EQ at around 10,000 Hz (some prefer around 8,000 Hz).

I loved it!


----------



## Andy Ho

Bee_Abney said:


> That is very beautiful! I love how there are hints at sci-fi up until the wooden flutes come in and then we are pulled to the east - not quite Chinese or Japanese, maybe Tibet or South-East Asia - and the fantasy element becomes confirmed.
> 
> The 'propellers' or 'windmills' in the picture made me think of a kind of advanced technology. Not steampunk so much as airpunk, so I think the synthetic sounds are a great choice, as is mixing them with the acoustic samples.
> 
> A lot of people, including me, have used woodwinds prominently, and that just seems very natural in relation to the shepherd, but also to capture a sense of the open field and all that air. Plus, wooden flutes match the trees nicely.
> 
> So I think you've done something really good.
> 
> I did wonder at some of the timing of the second flute - I wasn't sure it was hitting precisely where it should. Also, having both play at the same time means that they are competing for space. Which is great for a flute section, but might not work so well with just the two. This is a taste thing, of course; but I'd have made the second instrument a reed one to create a distinction. If a suona can be played softely enough, that would have worked.
> 
> It is very dark until the flute starts. Which I love, but I would also consider adding something a little further up the frequency range - some little sparkles, perhaps - so that the beginning is sonically fuller and a better match for what is to come. One way of doing is could just be to add air to a layer of the synths. You can do this by adding a very narrow spike in the EQ at around 10,000 Hz (some prefer around 8,000 Hz).
> 
> I loved it!


Thanks a lot for your suggestion, I will definitely try out the stuff you mention. I agreed the second flute was a bit messy, I wasnt sure exactly what I want it to do with it tbh, just felt like needed something there to support the movement of the piece. 
Thanks anyway.


----------



## Bee_Abney

R


Andy Ho said:


> Thanks a lot for your suggestion, I will definitely try out the stuff you mention. I agreed the second flute was a bit messy, I wasnt sure exactly what I want it to do with it tbh, just felt like needed something there to support the movement of the piece.
> Thanks anyway.



It's very good.


----------



## Jacob Fanto

According to Ryan via his discord channel, he has already narrowed it down to 23 entries, 8 of which still need to be cut before the 15 finalists announcement on Wednesday!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Shachah said:


> Thank you so much, very appreciated !
> 
> Do you have any tips in terms of mixing and mastering? I have no idea what I need to do, once the musical composition is finished unto that part.
> Like using EQ, reverb, panning, stereo image, compressor, limiter, adjusting right volume for streaming etc... I have watched videos, but it is still a riddle for me.
> 
> If you have feedback concerning those areas in my track I think I can learn a lot from it!


As I'm not that comfortable giving more general advice in an area where I'm still very much a beginner, I thought it might be helpful to give an idea of how a mix can be processed and how that can affect it, without making any claims about what is good or bad practice. This way, you can just hear it and read a description of what I was doing.

I've avoided naming specific plugins because you are better off using whatever you have at first rather than trying to buy 'better' plugins. But I'm happy to list them separately if you'd find it helpful.

I downloaded the MP3 you posted here of your piece and tried a little 'mastering' on it. I'm using scare quotes because I'm not mastering engineer and I wasn't focused on meeting any particular LUFs score for different outlets and so on. What I did want to do is to see what could be done to liven it up with just some basic tools: EQ, compression, reverb and saturation.

I think I've introduced too much treble for the percussion and some of the lower instruments. I don't know how to avoid that whilst also getting the higher woodwinds to shine on a stereo mix. But it would be a lot easier if you are EQ-ing the different instruments separately before they reach the stereo master bus. Also, obviously, all of this would sound much better with a .WAV file instead of an .MP3. The MP3 effectively compresses the signal a little (or so I've been told) and you lose dynamics as well as detail.

So here's what I did:
On the track with the file itself (what would be the instrument track) I put a little EQ to boost the frequencies in the mids to high mids. This helps create the sense of the music being more forwards in the mix and less far away. The further away a sound is, the more high frequencies are lost.

Also on this track I added a very, very small bit of reverb. No early reflections as I wasn't sure what was already in your mix; but I wanted to tie the instruments together a little more and reverb can help do that by putting them in the same space. But, in this case, the main effect was to beautify the whole mix in the same way. Reverb colours the sounds and can give them depth. The reverb I used was Reverb Foundry's Tai Chi. This is, I think, a particularly nice reverb for woodwinds. But any nice sounding reverb could be used. The key thing is to not use so much that you make it echo or make it muddy and clogged up. I possibly could have used even less to better effect; but my ears aren't the most sensitive and my monitoring situation isn't great (I was using a stereo guitar amp...).

On the master bus I added the following plugins, given here in the processing order:
Surgical EQ
To tame certain frequencies, cutting out anything below 20 Hz or above 18kHz. Giving a gentle bump to the low rang and mids, but with a steep cut around 300 Hz to keep the mix clear of that muddy sound where frequencies blur into each other. I had another, less deep, cut at 1.26 kHz, as the woodwinds were resonating too much at that frequency, creating a buzzy sound.

I also gave a little boost at 4.75 kHz to brighten the sound, putting in cuts to the frequencies just before and after that boost, to keep it clear, clean and to accentuate it.

Tape emulation
Used very, very sparingly. I didn't want the sound to become dulled at the top and bottom, but I did want to boost the harmonics. It creates a livelier sound with more detailed dynamic variations.

Compression
Again, very, very little. This is classical music and I did not want to lose the dynamics. But I did want to add a little character and I used a compressor that processed mid/side rather than left/right, which helps to expand the sense of width in the music.


Character EQ
By this point, I wanted to reassert some of the character of the arrangement. So I boost lows a little (still not enough to fix the too much treble on the percussion, I'm afraid), cut the high mids and boosted the higher end to flatter the woodwinds.

Mid/Side EQ
To benefit the width introduced with the mid/side compression, I just wanted to adjust the EQ very slightly for the middle and the sides. The bass frequencies where made mono (from a little under 200 Hz down) to put the bass squarely in the middle of the sound field. The sides had a slightly different points of emphasis to the mids, worked out by ear.


----------



## Shachah

Bee_Abney said:


> As I'm not that comfortable giving more general advice in an area where I'm still very much a beginner, I thought it might be helpful to give an idea of how a mix can be processed and how that can affect it, without making any claims about what is good or bad practice. This way, you can just hear it and read a description of what I was doing.
> 
> I've avoided naming specific plugins because you are better off using whatever you have at first rather than trying to buy 'better' plugins. But I'm happy to list them separately if you'd find it helpful.
> 
> I downloaded the MP3 you posted here of your piece and tried a little 'mastering' on it. I'm using scare quotes because I'm not mastering engineer and I wasn't focused on meeting any particular LUFs score for different outlets and so on. What I did want to do is to see what could be done to liven it up with just some basic tools: EQ, compression, reverb and saturation.
> 
> I think I've introduced too much treble for the percussion and some of the lower instruments. I don't know how to avoid that whilst also getting the higher woodwinds to shine on a stereo mix. But it would be a lot easier if you are EQ-ing the different instruments separately before they reach the stereo master bus. Also, obviously, all of this would sound much better with a .WAV file instead of an .MP3. The MP3 effectively compresses the signal a little (or so I've been told) and you lose dynamics as well as detail.
> 
> So here's what I did:
> On the track with the file itself (what would be the instrument track) I put a little EQ to boost the frequencies in the mids to high mids. This helps create the sense of the music being more forwards in the mix and less far away. The further away a sound is, the more high frequencies are lost.
> 
> Also on this track I added a very, very small bit of reverb. No early reflections as I wasn't sure what was already in your mix; but I wanted to tie the instruments together a little more and reverb can help do that by putting them in the same space. But, in this case, the main effect was to beautify the whole mix in the same way. Reverb colours the sounds and can give them depth. The reverb I used was Reverb Foundry's Tai Chi. This is, I think, a particularly nice reverb for woodwinds. But any nice sounding reverb could be used. The key thing is to not use so much that you make it echo or make it muddy and clogged up. I possibly could have used even less to better effect; but my ears aren't the most sensitive and my monitoring situation isn't great (I was using a stereo guitar amp...).
> 
> On the master bus I added the following plugins, given here in the processing order:
> Surgical EQ
> To tame certain frequencies, cutting out anything below 20 Hz or above 18kHz. Giving a gentle bump to the low rang and mids, but with a steep cut around 300 Hz to keep the mix clear of that muddy sound where frequencies blur into each other. I had another, less deep, cut at 1.26 kHz, as the woodwinds were resonating too much at that frequency, creating a buzzy sound.
> 
> I also gave a little boost at 4.75 kHz to brighten the sound, putting in cuts to the frequencies just before and after that boost, to keep it clear, clean and to accentuate it.
> 
> Tape emulation
> Used very, very sparingly. I didn't want the sound to become dulled at the top and bottom, but I did want to boost the harmonics. It creates a livelier sound with more detailed dynamic variations.
> 
> Compression
> Again, very, very little. This is classical music and I did not want to lose the dynamics. But I did want to add a little character and I used a compressor that processed mid/side rather than left/right, which helps to expand the sense of width in the music.
> 
> 
> Character EQ
> By this point, I wanted to reassert some of the character of the arrangement. So I boost lows a little (still not enough to fix the too much treble on the percussion, I'm afraid), cut the high mids and boosted the higher end to flatter the woodwinds.
> 
> Mid/Side EQ
> To benefit the width introduced with the mid/side compression, I just wanted to adjust the EQ very slightly for the middle and the sides. The bass frequencies where made mono (from a little under 200 Hz down) to put the bass squarely in the middle of the sound field. The sides had a slightly different points of emphasis to the mids, worked out by ear.


Wow, thanks so much for the detailed answer and effort you put in to master the track with stating what you did. I will take my time to go through all the things you did and try to do my approach of mixing it using plugins that I already I have with the steps you suggested and see what I can come up with. I'll probably ask you again for your feedback once I am done, hope that's okay for you :D. Much appreciated!


----------



## Bee_Abney

Shachah said:


> Wow, thanks so much for the detailed answer and effort you put in to master the track with stating what you did. I will take my time to go through all the things you did and try to do my approach of mixing it using plugins that I already I have with the steps you suggested and see what I can come up with. I'll probably ask you again for your feedback once I am done, hope that's okay for you :D. Much appreciated!


That would be great. This is really helpful for me too!


----------



## Jacob Fanto

I’m a finalist!


----------



## Markrs

Jacob Fanto said:


> I’m a finalist!


Congratulations 🎉


----------



## Loïc D

Jacob Fanto said:


> I’m a finalist!


Congrats !


----------



## Jorgakis

Ok wow, got nominated, too. That was unexpected! Congratulations to all finalists! Love Ryan's Channel, especially due to his interest in anime harmony.


----------



## Bee_Abney

Jacob Fanto said:


> I’m a finalist!





Jorgakis said:


> Ok wow, got nominated, too. That was unexpected! Congratulations to all finalists! Love Ryan's Channel, especially due to his interest in anime harmony.



Many congratultions! That's fabulous news!


----------



## Germain B

Congrats to the finalists ! So many talented people !


----------



## weeeeve

Congratulations to all the finalists!


----------



## RudyS

Jacob Fanto said:


> I’m a finalist!


Congrats!


----------



## RudyS

Jorgakis said:


> Ok wow, got nominated, too. That was unexpected! Congratulations to all finalists! Love Ryan's Channel, especially due to his interest in anime harmony.



Congrats!


----------



## PebbleStream

Harmony7 said:


> Think I'll share mine as well, had a lot of fun working on this one.



My favorite from this thread so far!


----------



## ChrisSiuMusic

Everyone did such an amazing job! Congratulations


----------



## bitbrain

Here is my entry. Obviously, I was not a finalist. This was the first competition I have entered, however, and I had a blast composing my entry and listening to everyone else's pieces.


----------



## Mr. Sam Flash

Same as @bitbrain! This was my very first contest entry ever! Didn't make it to the finals, but had an absolute blast making it! :D


----------

