# Berlin Woodwinds - A classic on clearance sale!



## OrchestralTools (Oct 16, 2017)

*Berlin Woodwinds - A classic on clearance sale!*

*The year 2011* - our first recordings in the Teldex Studio Berlin, our first piece of the Berlin Series. The sound of these Berlin orchestral musicians in the Teldex Scoring Stage was magical - from the first note we knew that the decision was right to come to this place steeped in tradition. Although we didn't know at the time that we were to create the Berlin Series - this idea came with the production of the Berlin Strings in 2013 - we knew that with the Berlin Woodwinds we had created something special.

Now, five years after the release, we decided to take our legendary collection out of the Orchestral Tools online store.
Until October 24, you have the chance to get our Berlin Woodwinds for an absolutely attractive special price:







*Berlin Woodwinds became an industry standard.*
The reasons for this - besides the unique and perfectly balanced sound of the room - are the unbeatable technical features:

• True Legato for all instruments and ensembles
• Powerful 8x RR Staccato and Staccatissimo Patches
• Playable Runs and pre-recorded scale runs (tempo synced)
• DIVISI concept with 2nd and up to 3rd instruments
• Trills Orchestrator with up to 5th trills, never recorded before
• RUNS BUILDER
• Up to 3 different vibrato styles
• Controllable key and wind noises
• Measured Trills (tempo synced and available up to a 5th! - HT, WT, min3rd, maj3rd, 4th, perfect 4th, 5th)

Get all information about Berlin Woodwinds on our product site:
http://www.orchestraltools.com/libraries/berlin_woodwinds.php

All the best from the OT office!


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## AoiichiNiiSan (Oct 16, 2017)

Does this mean a Berlin Woodwinds 2 is on the way, with all the technology and techniques developed during Berlin Strings and Berlin Brass? Hmm...


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## lucor (Oct 16, 2017)

Wow this is very surprising. I'm guessing you're planning to record a completely new Woodwinds library that is up to par with the rest of the Berlin Series in terms of mic positions and such?
Nevertheless, Berlin Woodwinds is by far the best WW library I own and know, everyone who hasn't purchased it yet should do so immediately!


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 16, 2017)

One of the first and best purchase I've made when I started


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## JonSolo (Oct 16, 2017)

I agree. This is my favorite woods library and a must have if you if you do orchestration that uses woods.


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## sostenuto (Oct 16, 2017)

lucor said:


> Wow this is very surprising. I'm guessing you're planning to record a completely new Woodwinds library that is up to par with the rest of the Berlin Series in terms of mic positions and such?
> Nevertheless, Berlin Woodwinds is by far the best WW library I own and know, everyone who hasn't purchased it yet should do so immediately!



Heh heh !! Still have BO_Inspire 50 EUR Code too (and it works in Cart!) ........


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## muziksculp (Oct 16, 2017)

Interesting announcement !

So what's cooking next at OT ? A new generation is coming our way, Berlin Woodwinds 2 ?


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 16, 2017)

Berlin Woodwinds is such a good library that I can't just imagine how's gonna be the next one. Only thing I've always thought they should have added is flutter tongue


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## Paul T McGraw (Oct 16, 2017)

It must be a new WW library. The product page says the existing Berlin WW will be removed from the market October 24. That is just 8 days away. My guess, and it is just a guess, is that a new WW 2 library has to be coming on or shortly after October 24. It would make no sense to remove this version from market otherwise.


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## Lassi Tani (Oct 16, 2017)

Paul T McGraw said:


> It must be a new WW library. The product page says the existing Berlin WW will be removed from the market October 24. That is just 8 days away. My guess, and it is just a guess, is that a new WW 2 library has to be coming on or shortly after October 24. It would make no sense to remove this version from market otherwise.



Yes that's true: "Our classic and beloved Berlin Woodwinds Collection, which became the industry standard will be taken from market on October 24.
Last chance to order Berlin Woodwinds at a very low and attractive Clearance Sale pricing."

Quite interesting!



N.Caffrey said:


> Only thing I've always thought they should have added is flutter tongue



The flutter tongue is in the Exp D.

Berlin Woodwinds is one of the best purchases I've ever made. If I wouldn't have it already, I would buy it instantly.


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## ChristopherDoucet (Oct 16, 2017)

I hope that they released BW II with rear mics and make it affordable for all those who bought the original Berlin Woodwinds.


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## Paul T McGraw (Oct 16, 2017)

sekkosiki said:


> Yes that's true: "Our classic and beloved Berlin Woodwinds Collection, which became the industry standard will be taken from market on October 24.
> Last chance to order Berlin Woodwinds at a very low and attractive Clearance Sale pricing."
> 
> Quite interesting!
> ...



Ah, but perhaps one should wait for Berlin Woodwinds 2?


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## muziksculp (Oct 16, 2017)

I wonder if they have a special upgrade pricing to BWW2 for BWW Classic owners ?


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## storyteller (Oct 16, 2017)

OrchestralTools said:


> *Berlin Woodwinds - A classic on clearance sale!*
> 
> *The year 2011* - our first recordings in the Teldex Studio Berlin, our first piece of the Berlin Series. The sound of these Berlin orchestral musicians in the Teldex Scoring Stage was magical - from the first note we knew that the decision was right to come to this place steeped in tradition. Although we didn't know at the time that we were to create the Berlin Series - this idea came with the production of the Berlin Strings in 2013 - we knew that with the Berlin Woodwinds we had created something special.
> 
> ...



I'm a very happy Berlin Main + A + B user and was planning on getting C & D when the need arises. Are the expansions no longer going to be offered either? Or is this just the main library that is being removed? Are the expansions going to be on sale before they are removed or is there another plan? I apologize for the numerous questions - I can only expect something great is coming. I just want to be prepared if expansions C & D are suddenly about to disappear too...


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## kurtvanzo (Oct 16, 2017)

OrchestralTools said:


> *Berlin Woodwinds - A classic on clearance sale!*
> 
> *The year 2011* - our first recordings in the Teldex Studio Berlin, our first piece of the Berlin Series. The sound of these Berlin orchestral musicians in the Teldex Scoring Stage was magical - from the first note we knew that the decision was right to come to this place steeped in tradition. Although we didn't know at the time that we were to create the Berlin Series - this idea came with the production of the Berlin Strings in 2013 - we knew that with the Berlin Woodwinds we had created something special.
> 
> ...



What about the expansions? Will they also be removed on Oct 24th? Will there be a sale on them before they go? Not on sale at the moment. :/


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## prodigalson (Oct 16, 2017)

surely they're not going to leave such a large woodwinds sized hole in their catalog?


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 16, 2017)

The crossgrade price and new improvements must be really remarkable to make me upgrade..


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## AoiichiNiiSan (Oct 16, 2017)

prodigalson said:


> surely they're not going to leave such a large woodwinds sized hole in their catalog?



Hence the thinking that there must be a BWW2 on the way. If it's just a repackaging of BWW with the expansions, as good as they are, I'll scream... OT made leaps and bounds with BST and then BBR, and the woodwinds could really do with a brand new set of recordings (i.e. a new product). Only so much you can do with pre-existing sample material, taken before most of the technology/know-how was developed.


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## jamwerks (Oct 16, 2017)

Probably just a repackage!


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 16, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> Probably just a repackage!


Don't think so. Otherwise they wouldn't have mentioned "5 years". sounds more like something brand new!


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## Lee Blaske (Oct 16, 2017)

Well, one thing is for sure... They are smart people. If there is a new repackaging/re-tweaking of essentially the same content, I would expect an attractive upgrade offer (maybe free, even). I highly doubt that they would leave existing customers stranded.


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## noxtenebrae17 (Oct 16, 2017)

I'd be excited to see a whole new woodwinds library from OT. Berlin Woodwinds has some great stuff, but I always like to have more options in my palette!


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## W Ackerman (Oct 16, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> Well, one thing is for sure... They are smart people. If there is a new repackaging/re-tweaking of essentially the same content, I would expect an attractive upgrade offer (maybe free, even). I highly doubt that they would leave existing customers stranded.



How I would maximize revenue if I were OT, assuming a significant new version has been developed:

1. Discount on old version to increase install-base
2. Imply but remain coy about new version to maximize buzz (this thread). 
3. Announce awesome new version with discount for existing customers. Possibly wait a bit after discontinuing old version just to juice up the buzz
4. New version with more capabilities has a higher list price
5. Possibly no intro price for new customers - depends on how awesome new version is

Or not!


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## Zhao Shen (Oct 16, 2017)

So soon I'll be looking at Hollywood Choirs, Berlin Woodwinds 2, and Cinematic Studio Brass. Hype levels through the roof.


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## frontline (Oct 16, 2017)

storyteller said:


> I'm a very happy Berlin Main + A + B user and was planning on getting C & D when the need arises. Are the expansions no longer going to be offered either? Or is this just the main library that is being removed? Are the expansions going to be on sale before they are removed or is there another plan? I apologize for the numerous questions - I can only expect something great is coming. I just want to be prepared if expansions C & D are suddenly about to disappear too...



I have the same/similar question as I have BWW and Exp A and was planning to add at least Exp D at some point in the future...


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## Lee Blaske (Oct 16, 2017)

W Ackerman said:


> How I would maximize revenue if I were OT, assuming a significant new version has been developed:
> 
> 1. Discount on old version to increase install-base
> 2. Imply but remain coy about new version to maximize buzz (this thread).
> ...



Interesting. I would REALLY doubt, though, that they'd allow any time to pass where a woodwind library to complete the orchestra wasn't available for immediate sale. I just don't think they're wired that way. 

I'm still thinking that a repackage is the most likely direction. Maybe some tweaking, and maybe some new material. As it stands now, for all of the Berlin products, the initial product (Strings/Brass/Woodwinds/Percussion) need to be activated via Native Access. All of the various expansions, however, are not. I don't know if they're watermarked, but they are not protected via Native Instruments copy protection. I assume NI charges the developer for each license managed on their system. If that's so, OT probably didn't want to pay an addition fee for each expansion. But, if things are now repackaged, one activation will cover the whole thing, so all the content will be protected.

A new bundling, with an introductory price and upgrade path might encourage people to buy the new product to complete their collection. This tactic worked on me when Spitfire did it.


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## thereus (Oct 16, 2017)

They're watching the competition and trying to learn themselves some game.


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## FinGael (Oct 16, 2017)

Maybe a more compact version (in size), with less mic options?

During the introduction of OT Inspire many stated that they were happy that the library is having a lighter footprint on hard disk space.


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## thereus (Oct 16, 2017)

“Clearance” sale. 

Hey, guys, we got to get rid of all these ones and zeros in the warehouse to make room for the new ones and zeros delivery. Let’s stock ‘em high and sell ‘em cheap.


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## lucor (Oct 16, 2017)

FinGael said:


> Maybe a more compact version (in size), with less mic options?
> 
> During the introduction of OT Inspire many stated that they were happy that the library is having a lighter footprint on hard disk space.



BWW is basically already as compact as it gets with just a close mic and a room mic. I'm guessing it's the exact opposite, a larger version with more mic options.


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## FinGael (Oct 16, 2017)

lucor said:


> BWW is basically already as compact as it gets with just a close mic and a room mic. I'm guessing it's the exact opposite, a larger version with more mic options.



Thanks for the correct information about the mics. I don't own BWW and have not looked it more closely in recent times - only remembered that it was quite large in size and thought that there might be plenty of mic options.


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## jamwerks (Oct 16, 2017)

They undoubtedly will eventually do another WW library, but not before getting their due from the hard work already done. Seems highly probable that as with the 4 volumes of Sable becoming SCS, the 4 or 5 volumes of BWW would become one consolidated product.


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## prodigalson (Oct 16, 2017)

If there will be a new library I'd imagine it must be pretty much ready to go. Otherwise why discontinue the current once prematurely? Although, in that scenario I'd imagine people might be pretty miffed if they buy BWW now only to find that there's something immediately released that's "bigger and better". 

If it's just a repackaging then why not announce the new repackaging while the current package is on sale and give customers the option of buying in now or waiting to have everything in one.


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## jamwerks (Oct 16, 2017)

No doubt the buy now + upgrade price will be less than the buy later one. Wonder if there's any new features?


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## Lee Blaske (Oct 16, 2017)

lucor said:


> BWW is basically already as compact as it gets with just a close mic and a room mic. I'm guessing it's the exact opposite, a larger version with more mic options.



I really wonder if any of the sample library creators have done much study about how many mic positions people really need and/or want. To me, it seems that some of them are really going overboard (e.g. the full version of VSL's new Synchron libraries). Do we really need all of those positions? I'm pretty fine with a close version, and then a mic positions from the optimum, most beautiful sweet spot in the venue. If I need a LOT of reverb for a special effect, it's really easy to add more. I really don't need a complete sample set recorded from the fourth stall in the men's upper level restroom.


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## W Ackerman (Oct 16, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> complete sample set recorded from the fourth stall in the men's upper level restroom.



That would be the for wet version?


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## JonSolo (Oct 16, 2017)

Berlin Inspire is the closest I have seen them come to a repackage. Yet they have updated these products over the years. I think this is about the 3rd incarnation of the Berlin Woodwinds (all had free updates). So I expect something new as well.

But I, like everyone else, am curious about the expansions (which I do not own).


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## galactic orange (Oct 16, 2017)

jamwerks said:


> No doubt the buy now + upgrade price will be less than the buy later one. Wonder if there's any new features?



I think you're probably right about that. BWW is the only Main library that I have of the Berlin Series (along with Exp A). I just hope that any upgrade pricing is fair to current owners and those who pick it up during the sale. OT has been good about listening to user requests (hence the low footprint "Inspire") so if it's a repackaging then let's hope there is increased flexibility, especially for less-powerful systems. Also, I'd be disappointed if my EXP A purchase was rendered unnecessary by overlapping content... unless there is some sort of a discount. But I only see the BWW Main discounted as it is, and not the expansions so who knows how that will turn out.


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## jon wayne (Oct 16, 2017)

Lee Blaske said:


> I really wonder if any of the sample library creators have done much study about how many mic positions people really need and/or want. To me, it seems that some of them are really going overboard (e.g. the full version of VSL's new Synchron libraries). Do we really need all of those positions? I'm pretty fine with a close version, and then a mic positions from the optimum, most beautiful sweet spot in the venue. If I need a LOT of reverb for a special effect, it's really easy to add more. I really don't need a complete sample set recorded from the fourth stall in the men's upper level restroom.


Yeah, only pee-anisimo volume would be pretty boring!


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## constaneum (Oct 16, 2017)

If it's taken out from the online store, does it mean no more future support if there's any issue with installation of this legacy woodwind library ? I'm planning to get it since i've been waiting for the sale all this while but future supports for this keeps me wondering whether i should get it or not. Hmm....


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## storyteller (Oct 16, 2017)

I can only imagine it is a repackaging plus maybe something new. Their current library sounds gorgeous and it will be hard to top it. They haven't released any new GUI features with their more recent libraries as of yet, and the trend in the industry seems to be to simplify products for customers. I'd really like to know about D though. Maybe they are adding saxophones or something like that to the main library. That'd be a nice surprise!


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## lp59burst (Oct 16, 2017)

Berlin Woodwinds + Berlin Woodwinds Expansion B + Berlin Woodwinds Expansion C - €100 with my Inspire discount code.... very tempting.

The stronger € is costing me an extra $50 more than it would have last December...


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## constaneum (Oct 16, 2017)

€ is growing stronger than before. I thought it'll become weaker after Brexit but man...$_$. LOL


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## JohnBMears (Oct 16, 2017)

The fact that BWW EXP B C & D are not discounted (nor is EXP A), it makes me think that the soloists will remain as OT's isolated WW for solo writing and that new content is being recorded to replace the main library. Perhaps some of the old content will be re-used, but I'd figure the accented attack and multiple mics in BBR and BST will inform the new BWW series. Surely it would have to hit the market at the same time the other one leaves. Who would leave a lengthy gap in their series for the sake of building up excitement?


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## Hat_Tricky (Oct 16, 2017)

Hmm, edu discount or sale discount, PLUS voucher from Inspire = just under $300 for Berlin WW...a no brainer considering the only woodwinds i ahve are from Albion ONE and Inspire?


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## mmjohan (Oct 16, 2017)

Hat_Tricky said:


> Hmm, edu discount or sale discount, PLUS voucher from Inspire = just under $300 for Berlin WW...a no brainer considering the only woodwinds i ahve are from Albion ONE and Inspire?


Can you stack the EDU discount with the clearance price?


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## Hat_Tricky (Oct 16, 2017)

mmjohan said:


> Can you stack the EDU discount with the clearance price?



I doubt it, and they are about the same amount - that's why I said "or". Not positive though. Either way, seems like a heck of a deal. Also, OT stuff NEVER goes on sale so they definetely have SOMETHING coming.

I just hope its not Berlin WW2 and its leaps abd bounds better then Berlin WW - with no upgrade path or loyalty discount.


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## galactic orange (Oct 16, 2017)

JohnBMears said:


> The fact that BWW EXP B C & D are not discounted (nor is EXP A), it makes me think that the soloists will remain as OT's isolated WW for solo writing and that new content is being recorded to replace the main library.



Maybe the Main content will remain Main (pun unintentional), and then the expansions will be released as one "Expansion" set?


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## mmjohan (Oct 16, 2017)

Hat_Tricky said:


> I doubt it, and they are about the same amount - that's why I said "or". Not positive though. Either way, seems like a heck of a deal. Also, OT stuff NEVER goes on sale so they definetely have SOMETHING coming.
> 
> I just hope its not Berlin WW2 and its leaps abd bounds better then Berlin WW - with no upgrade path or loyalty discount.


Yeah I agree. Might as well pick it up and hope there's a loyalty/crossgrade option when and if a successor releases a few days after.


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## Michael Antrum (Oct 17, 2017)

I bought it 6 weeks ago.... 

They might have a new library coming out, but there’s not many better WW libraries than the current one.

Would like to know about the expansions and what’s happening to them as I was condiering Exp A this month.

I have a feeling that something is going to be announced soon -possibly on the 25th...


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## galactic orange (Oct 17, 2017)

I just got an e-mail from Orchestral Tools with a Continuata download code for BWW 2.2!


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## Nils Neumann (Oct 17, 2017)

galactic orange said:


> I just got an e-mail from Orchestral Tools with a Continuata download code for BWW 2.2!


Yes, me to. Strange


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## galactic orange (Oct 17, 2017)

There are no details of the update contents in the e-mail and Help Desk still shows 2.1 as the current version. Curious. I'm reluctant to update until I know what's in it.


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 17, 2017)

galactic orange said:


> There are no details of the update contents in the e-mail and Help Desk still shows 2.1 as the current version. Curious. I'm reluctant to update until I know what's in it.


They say what has changed in the email. Doesn't look very different to me to the previous version. But I've never used capsule so maybe something has changed there


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## galactic orange (Oct 17, 2017)

N.Caffrey said:


> They say what has changed in the email. Doesn't look very different to me to the previous version. But I've never used capsule so maybe something has changed there



From the e-mail:
"BWW 2.2 updates BWW to Capsule 2.5.4 (the newest version of our script framework) and contains a number of fixes and improvements."

I stand corrected. A very vague description, I must say.


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 17, 2017)

galactic orange said:


> From the e-mail:
> "BWW 2.2 updates BWW to Capsule 2.5.4 (the newest version of our script framework) and contains a number of fixes and improvements."
> 
> I stand corrected. A very vague description, I must say.


Man I'm so curious for what they're going to announce


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## OT_Tobias (Oct 17, 2017)

Hi folks,

as the update email says, it brings BWW to Capsule 2.5.4 (see http://helpdesk.orchestraltools.com/ug_new_features.html for what that version brings) and also has a few small tweaks based on user feedback. It does not contain any major changes and of course existing patches still load (though will use Capsule 2.5.4, so don't do the update in the middle of a project to be safe).

The Helpdesk not yet mentioning 2.2 has technical reasons - that will of course be rectified!

best

Tobias
OT Support


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## muziksculp (Oct 17, 2017)

OT_Tobias said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> as the update email says, it brings BWW to Capsule 2.5.4 (see http://helpdesk.orchestraltools.com/ug_new_features.html for what that version brings) and also has a few small tweaks based on user feedback. It does not contain any major changes and of course existing patches still load (though will use Capsule 2.5.4, so don't do the update in the middle of a project to be safe).
> 
> ...



Hi Tobias,

Thanks for the feedback. 

Q. Are Berlin Strings, Berlin Brass, and Berlin Woodwinds Expansions running Capsule 2.5.4 ?


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## wbacer (Oct 17, 2017)

I just downloaded and installed 2.2 but for some reason the update is not showing up in Kontakt.
Emailed OT support, waiting for a reply.


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## bigcat1969 (Oct 17, 2017)

One word review 'Beautiful'.


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## jamwerks (Oct 17, 2017)

Sonic differences /improvements?


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## Ihnoc (Oct 17, 2017)

OT_Tobias said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> as the update email says, it brings BWW to Capsule 2.5.4 (see http://helpdesk.orchestraltools.com/ug_new_features.html for what that version brings) and also has a few small tweaks based on user feedback. It does not contain any major changes and of course existing patches still load (though will use Capsule 2.5.4, so don't do the update in the middle of a project to be safe).
> 
> ...



Tobias, I appreciate if you cannot answer this question, but the website and this thread doesn't clarify something I think those of us hoping to jump into Berlin Woodwinds would really value knowing; Will the expansions to Berlin Woodwinds also be discontinued along with the Berlin Woodwinds main library?


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## z.langlumos (Oct 17, 2017)

Very confused with with what’s OT is planning but I do hope Berlin Woodwind could be redone to include all the new developments over the years. Maybe include some additional instruments like auto flute lol. But I am always confident about what OT puts out


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## Si_Withenshaw (Oct 18, 2017)

Ihnoc said:


> Tobias, I appreciate if you cannot answer this question, but the website and this thread doesn't clarify something I think those of us hoping to jump into Berlin Woodwinds would really value knowing; Will the expansions to Berlin Woodwinds also be discontinued along with the Berlin Woodwinds main library?



Agreed, I only want to buy this if I'll be able to purchase the expansions at a later date.


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## OT_Tobias (Oct 18, 2017)

Ihnoc said:


> Tobias, I appreciate if you cannot answer this question, but the website and this thread doesn't clarify something I think those of us hoping to jump into Berlin Woodwinds would really value knowing; Will the expansions to Berlin Woodwinds also be discontinued along with the Berlin Woodwinds main library?



Actually I _can_ answer that question  No, the expansions will not be discontinued along with BWW Main!


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 18, 2017)

OT_Tobias said:


> Actually I _can_ answer that question  No, the expansions will not be discontinued along with BWW Main!


So this means I think that's not going to be a repackaging but something completely new, correct? :D


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## thereus (Oct 18, 2017)

Has anyone them directly asked about this?


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 18, 2017)

With Berlin Brass with had lots of teasers, 2nd generation brass etc, why don't they do the same with ww? maybe they changed their marketing approach?


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## jamwerks (Oct 18, 2017)

N.Caffrey said:


> So this means I think that's not going to be a repackaging but something completely new, correct? :D


Yeah, with the expansions still available, a repackaging seems unlikely. 

So it might just be a completely new WW library with the mic's matching those of the rest of the Berlin series. Then the mic's wouldn't match up with the older expansions? A mistery!


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## Hat_Tricky (Oct 18, 2017)

I wonder if this is going to be similar to Spitfire's Albion ONE when it came out - Legacy owners of Albion 1 (that was discontinued) got an upgrade discount. I'm torn! Need to spend money on solo strings but I have NO woodwinds outside of Albion ONE and OT's Inspire.


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## Ihnoc (Oct 18, 2017)

OT_Tobias said:


> Actually I _can_ answer that question  No, the expansions will not be discontinued along with BWW Main!


Thanks for this - that totally solidifies my purchase.


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## madfloyd (Oct 18, 2017)

Is this worth purchasing if your current collection consists mainly of Spitfire libraries (along with a couple Cinematic Studio products)?


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## dogdad (Oct 18, 2017)

madfloyd said:


> Is this worth purchasing if your current collection consists mainly of Spitfire libraries (along with a couple Cinematic Studio products)?



I’d say yes. I fit that bill as I own multiple Spitfire libraries as well as Cinematic Studio Ensemble and Solo strings.

The sound is different but BWW is just a good sounding and flexible library and would fit with anything really. IMHO.


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## madfloyd (Oct 18, 2017)

dogdad said:


> I’d say yes. I fit that bill as I own multiple Spitfire libraries as well as Cinematic Studio Ensemble and Solo strings.
> 
> The sound is different but BWW is just a good sounding and flexible library and would fit with anything really. IMHO.



Thanks for your thoughts.


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## erikradbo (Oct 25, 2017)

Ended up buying this one today, downloading now. Excited . Seems like a good chance to try it out and decide if the revive is worth the extra 200€.


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