# Cinematic Studio Strings delay



## Hasen6 (Oct 5, 2016)

I watched the legato video walkthrough for CSS and I have to admit I'm a bit confused about the delay thing. He says there will be a delay ranging from 50ms to 300ms depending on the legato speed. He also says you can compensate for that by adding a midi negative delay in the track. But clearly the delay will vary depending on the legato speed used for each note?

Will this library be out of sync with other libraries unless I move the note positions or add a delay? How can I compensate for the different legato speeds throughout a phrase?


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## Christof (Oct 5, 2016)

Very important question!
I love this library, but the variable delay/latency slows down the workflow.
Even the short patches have a delay which isn't necessary in my opinion.
Did you write Alex about this?
He is a very nice man to talk to.


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## Hasen6 (Oct 5, 2016)

How does it slow down the workflow? It causes everything to be out of sync does it not?


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## JohnBMears (Oct 5, 2016)

Hasen6 said:


> How does it slow down the workflow? It causes everything to be out of sync does it not?



As in the flow of getting the work done- having to go back and re-edit legato slurs takes time and keeps you from moving on. I read somewhere on here where someone mentioned playing with a sustain patch only, then switching ON legato mode. I haven't tried it yet, but it would seem to me that this still wouldn't speed up the process as legato transitions would still need editing, but it could get the part played in without lag.

Concerning delays on shorts, I understand a bit more on why this is actually not a bad thing. The CineStrings video with Daniel James talked about the added realism of having the small amount of sample just before the bow strike to create some air and keep any short notes from being choked off at the beginning. I later switched my Hollywood Strings default short articulations for their "loose" shorts and set the negative delay and really thought it sounded better. I think for CineStrings it is 50ms. CSS is 80 I think.

I wondered if (for folks who are using the keyswitches, therefore one track per section) a possible solution would be setting a negative delay of 80ms, then quantizing your shorts. Then subtract 80 from the other latencies and use that as a guide for your legato transitions???


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## Christof (Oct 5, 2016)

Hasen6 said:


> How does it slow down the workflow? It causes everything to be out of sync does it not?


Yes, right, and fixing this manually slows down the workflow.


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## Saxer (Oct 5, 2016)

This library definitely needs a full delay mode and a *no *delay realtime mode for all legatos and shorts.

Playing and composing with no delay and the possibility to quantize and export notation is absolutely essential.

And after finishing a track there should be the delayed mode where *all *articulations have the same delay (300ms) so that it's possible to "minus-delay" the whole track in one go and let all the advanced articulations shine.


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## Hasen6 (Oct 6, 2016)

Saxer said:


> This library definitely needs a full delay mode and a *no *delay realtime mode for all legatos and shorts.
> 
> Playing and composing with no delay and the possibility to quantize and export notation is absolutely essential.
> 
> And after finishing a track there should be the delayed mode where *all *articulations have the same delay (300ms) so that it's possible to "minus-delay" the whole track in one go and let all the advanced articulations shine.



But the delays can be anything from 50ms to 300ms so surely a negative 300ms would also mess up all the note positions. It wouldn't appear to solve anything unless you were using the slowest legato transitions exclusively.


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## Saxer (Oct 6, 2016)

Hasen6 said:


> But the delays can be anything from 50ms to 300ms so surely a negative 300ms would also mess up all the note positions. It wouldn't appear to solve anything unless you were using the slowest legato transitions exclusively.


That's what I mean: this library is missing a full delay mode where *all* articulations have the *same* delay.
That means that every articulation should have 300ms delay in the delayed mode.
And for recording and playing there should be a fast mode for everything.

Shouldn't be a real problem to add delay to the faster samples. Orangetree offers such a mode switch in their angelic harp: a realtime mode and a delayed mode with some fingernail noise before the note starts.


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## Hasen6 (Oct 6, 2016)

Ok I see, I thought you were instructing how to use it properly but you were saying how it SHOULD be. So it is indeed a bit of a problem then.


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## Jediwario1 (Oct 6, 2016)

That's the best way (as Saxer explained), hopefully they'll implement this in an update and across the rest of the upcoming Cinematic Studio series.


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## milesito (Oct 6, 2016)

It is beautifully sounding but unfortunately unusable in my book for now. The delays are not consistent enough to shift them ... I pray there be an update. In the mean time i am stuck figuring out and using the other magical sounding library - spitfire chamber strings ... Which I have really started using more since CSS is not functioning efficiently for me with the delay is due.


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## Hasen6 (Oct 6, 2016)

Doesn't spitfire chamber strings also feature a speed option which creates a smoother legato but with a delay?


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## mac (Oct 6, 2016)

I play 99% of my notes in and can't cope with latency, it hurts my brain. As much as I like the sound of CSS, the delay issue stops me from purchasing. I imagine it's going to be the same with their brass and woods too :(


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## muk (Oct 6, 2016)

mac said:


> I play 99% of my notes in and can't cope with latency, it hurts my brain.



That's exactly why I use either the sustain patch without legato to play in fast passages, or use the legato patch but layer a piano sound with close to zero latency on top. It takes a little getting used to, but for now it is a practicable workaround for playing parts in with CSS. To cut down editing time afterwards Saxer's idea sounds very good.


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## ysnyvz (Oct 6, 2016)

I sent an email for a few requests including microtuning (patches are locked so I can't do it myself), individual patches for staccato, pizzicato, trills and sample start knob for staccato articulations.
He kindly refused all of them.


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## passsacaglia (Oct 6, 2016)

The "no" delay thing would be magical.
How's the no-legato-sustains speed in CS2 for those who have it? About the same as in CSS?

It do sounds great to 100%, hard to beat, but the delay makes me avoid it as my 1st string library I actually hoped for... Slow Passages - no doubt, the best. But still. Maybe I'll go for CS2 or ...another library (still wonder what that'd be) in the future. But for now I use my OE1/Project sam strings in the 1st place. But will give CSS more time.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 6, 2016)

It is annoying, but I can deal with it.


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## passsacaglia (Oct 6, 2016)

Ashermusic said:


> It is annoying, but I can deal with it.


EWQL guru, how would you compare it to HS?


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## WindcryMusic (Oct 6, 2016)

ysnyvz said:


> I sent an email for a few requests including microtuning (patches are locked so I can't do it myself), individual patches for staccato, pizzicato, trills and sample start knob for staccato articulations.



I programmed a Lemur template in my iPad to send MIDI CC's for controlling CSS, which provides buttons for individual, direct selection of staccato, pizzicato, etc. (as long as I don't mess with the mod wheel while using those short articulations, that is). At this point I couldn't imagine using CSS without such a control template ... it makes it SO much easier to dial up the exact articulation I want.

I like many of the other ideas in this thread, including a legato mode where everything is delayed by the same amount (300 ms or whatever) to facilitate those who would prefer to apply a general time offset to the track as a whole. But I wouldn't use such a thing myself because I have taken to using a single track for each of CSS's sections (unlike my use of any orchestral library before ... I'd always used one articulation per track). So an overall track offset would affect more than just the legato mode for me. And I haven't found CSS legatos to be at all unusable in their current form. Yes, I do have to go back in and tweak the note starts after playing them in, but the results of that tweaking are a level of realism that I haven't been able to achieve with any other string library to date, so I don't begrudge the time. I don't look for the exact offsets for each note based upon its precise velocity when doing so ... I just listen and adjust until it sounds right. In my opinion, the resulting slight inconsistencies between note start points only serve to make the results sound more real and human.


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## Daryl (Oct 6, 2016)

I don't think that I quite understand the issue. Let me know where I've got this wrong:

Speed of transition is set by velocity
You can filter all notes of a specific velocity range
You can set these all to be 300ms (or any other figure) earlier
You can increase the note lengths by the same amount, to make sure that gaps between notes remain the same.
You can set a series of Macros to do this for every speed, so that with one key command the whole track is in time with the click, and gaps between notes are as originally played.
So from my understanding, the only problem is that the notes no longer align to the grid. Or is there another problem?


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## Ashermusic (Oct 6, 2016)

passsacaglia said:


> EWQL guru, how would you compare it to HS?



Both have lush sounds but CSS sounds great out of the box, even with no reverb, while HS needs reverb for sure.
HS gives you _far_ more discrete control but there is no one or two patches that will give you everything you can do in the CSS patch. But of course, I get around that with a Play multi that I switch between articulations in Logic with the SkiSwitcher 2.

There is the legato delay issue with legatos in CSS that requires dealing with. Also I hate the way CSS use velocity to choose which short articulation you get, and the difference in col legno's volume, although in real life it is softer, makes it tricky to use. All of which I talked about in my review.

The two sound glorious together. I love them both. I would say, if you are a serious orchestrator trying to turn out complex parts, HS is clearly better suited to that. If however, you have less complex parts, just want to boot it up and get it on, CSS just sounds great with little fuss, muss, and bother.


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## Zookes (Oct 6, 2016)

Such delays as this being common for wet ensemble library legato, I think maybe it is unavoidable???
Hollywood and CineSamples I know do this inconsistent delays for legato transitions thing.

Using velocity as legato timing control, it is easy to floor and ceiling all MIDI velocity to a value for playing "live". This forces legato transitions to be always consistent this way! When playing like this is done, there is editing of the passage for different legato transition values. This way I know always how much to delay notes, determined from desired legato speed.

Suggestions by @Saxer interest me for theoretical possibilities, but I listen so much to my playing so I am unsure. I am very very sensitive to variations of delays when playing. I think maybe this does not work for my practicality?

I have no libraries doing this delay compensation thing, I cannot know. You say Angelic Harps does this?


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## URL (Oct 6, 2016)

A fast/speed legato compared to a "real" legato or performance legato doesn't sound the same in my ears without specify anyone out there, for composing fast legato is very nice... more flexible... It would be nice to combined different short with "fast" legato for more realistic composing.


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 6, 2016)

For what it's worth - when first writing with this library - the lag was a bit frustrating but using track offsets produced unnatural 'results' - and I still had to go back and spend way too much time editing. As mentioned, the library excels when things are not perfect (starts AND ends of notes). If that is true, I have found the best results is to approach this library differently than my other string libraries - as a unique 'instrument' that has to be 'played' differently. It takes some getting use to and yes the final midi roll shows not only off the grid (by sometimes a far margin) - the results are quite good. Be patient and think of the last instrument you picked up to 'learn' - it takes time, but sticking with it usually paid off.


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## milesito (Oct 6, 2016)

Zookes said:


> Such delays as this being common for wet ensemble library legato, I think maybe it is unavoidable???
> Hollywood and CineSamples I know do this inconsistent delays for legato transitions thing.
> 
> Using velocity as legato timing control, it is easy to floor and ceiling all MIDI velocity to a value for playing "live". This forces legato transitions to be always consistent this way! When playing like this is done, there is editing of the passage for different legato transition values. This way I know always how much to delay notes, determined from desired legato speed.
> ...


Spitfire chamber strings are also pretty lush and detailed and the newest release is very responsive and playable...I used to not be as big of a spitfire playability fan but right now they beat out CSS and even hs in my book for legatos.


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## Ashermusic (Oct 6, 2016)

Rob Elliott said:


> For what it's worth - when first writing with this library - the lag was a bit frustrating but using track offsets produced unnatural 'results' - and I still had to go back and spend way too much time editing. As mentioned, the library excels when things are not perfect (starts AND ends of notes). If that is true, I have found the best results is to approach this library differently than my other string libraries - as a unique 'instrument' that has to be 'played' differently. It takes some getting use to and yes the final midi roll shows not only off the grid (by sometimes a far margin) - the results are quite good. Be patient and think of the last instrument you picked up to 'learn' - it takes time, but sticking with it usually paid off.



Perfectly stated, Rob.


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## dreamnight92 (Oct 6, 2016)

Everyone complaining about consistent delays...are you crazy? With my previous library I needed to put a tempo every single legato transition, because, no library released until now had consistent legato transition timing. 

If you want a playable patch just use classic patches for legato. 

Maybe with shorts you'll get some problems, hoping in a future uptade that allow a "play mode" that change starting time of samples.


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## ysnyvz (Oct 6, 2016)

WindcryMusic said:


> I programmed a Lemur template in my iPad to send MIDI CC's for controlling CSS, which provides buttons for individual, direct selection of staccato, pizzicato, etc. (as long as I don't mess with the mod wheel while using those short articulations, that is). At this point I couldn't imagine using CSS without such a control template ... it makes it SO much easier to dial up the exact articulation I want.


Thanks but we're talking about very different things. I didn't ask for individual patches just for switching between them. I have a different workflow.


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## Daryl (Oct 6, 2016)

dreamnight92 said:


> Everyone complaining about consistent delays...are you crazy? With my previous library I needed to put a tempo every single legato transition, because, no library released until now had consistent legato transition timing.


I think you previously just used the wrong library then.


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## dreamnight92 (Oct 6, 2016)

Daryl said:


> I think you previously just used the wrong library then.



I used Hollywood strings, and the legato transition were very incostant...but as far as I know that's a common problem for libraries with true legato, you need to move back the notes by ear until you find the right amount of delay. 

In my opinion having a costant delay is not a waste of time as others say, because you can just move back the notes of that amount of time and get the transition perfectly a tempo (the you can apply also the right amount of humanize).


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## Daryl (Oct 6, 2016)

dreamnight92 said:


> I used Hollywood strings, and the legato transition were very incostant...but as far as I know that's a common problem for libraries with true legato, you need to move back the notes by ear until you find the right amount of delay.


There is no such problem with VSL, but as they invented the "true legato" way of sampling, it's no surprise that they do it better. The transition material is very consistent


dreamnight92 said:


> In my opinion having a costant delay is not a waste of time as others say, because you can just move back the notes of that amount of time and get the transition perfectly a tempo (the you can apply also the right amount of humanize).


I agree. I just disagreed with your hypothesis that all developers up to now got it wrong.


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## Zookes (Oct 7, 2016)

milesito said:


> Spitfire chamber strings are also pretty lush and detailed and the newest release is very responsive and playable...I used to not be as big of a spitfire playability fan but right now they beat out CSS and even hs in my book for legatos.


Will maybe ask a friend to let me trial this library.

I am wary always of Spitfire library quality after this bad old purchase of Albion, and lacking refunds option is very unfriendly.


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## tomhartmanmusic (Mar 17, 2018)

WindcryMusic said:


> I programmed a Lemur template in my iPad to send MIDI CC's for controlling CSS, which provides buttons for individual, direct selection of staccato, pizzicato, etc. (as long as I don't mess with the mod wheel while using those short articulations, that is). At this point I couldn't imagine using CSS without such a control template ... it makes it SO much easier to dial up the exact articulation I want.
> 
> I like many of the other ideas in this thread, including a legato mode where everything is delayed by the same amount (300 ms or whatever) to facilitate those who would prefer to apply a general time offset to the track as a whole. But I wouldn't use such a thing myself because I have taken to using a single track for each of CSS's sections (unlike my use of any orchestral library before ... I'd always used one articulation per track). So an overall track offset would affect more than just the legato mode for me. And I haven't found CSS legatos to be at all unusable in their current form. Yes, I do have to go back in and tweak the note starts after playing them in, but the results of that tweaking are a level of realism that I haven't been able to achieve with any other string library to date, so I don't begrudge the time. I don't look for the exact offsets for each note based upon its precise velocity when doing so ... I just listen and adjust until it sounds right. In my opinion, the resulting slight inconsistencies between note start points only serve to make the results sound more real and human.




I know this is an older post, but was wondering if you would be willing to share/sell your template for CSS with Lemur, I'm just discovering Lemur and would love getting up to speed quickly!

Thx
Tom


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## WindcryMusic (Mar 17, 2018)

tomhartmanmusic said:


> I know this is an older post, but was wondering if you would be willing to share/sell your template for CSS with Lemur, I'm just discovering Lemur and would love getting up to speed quickly!
> 
> Thx
> Tom



I'll see if I can put the download somewhere for you to get at it sometime this weekend. (It isn't nearly advanced enough for me to consider selling it ... yet, hehe.)


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## tomhartmanmusic (Mar 17, 2018)

WindcryMusic said:


> I'll see if I can put the download somewhere for you to get at it sometime this weekend. (It isn't nearly advanced enough for me to consider selling it ... yet, hehe.)



Ha, thanks. My email is [email protected] if you need. Much appreciated!


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## germancomponist (Mar 17, 2018)

I have used so many string libs in my life, and no string library worked perfect in the midi editor, timing wise. I always moved the notes ..... .


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## Eptesicus (Mar 18, 2018)

germancomponist said:


> I have used so many string libs in my life, and no string library worked perfect in the midi editor, timing wise. I always moved the notes ..... .



This. Almost all legato instruments i have used have some sort of delay.

I just end up spending a lot of time making sure everything is in time by ear which is annoying but it is what it is.


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## WindcryMusic (Mar 18, 2018)

tomhartmanmusic said:


> Ha, thanks. My email is [email protected] if you need. Much appreciated!



I've placed it on my website, at least temporarily. Grab it soon, because I'll eventually delete it once I've built something better and am too embarrassed by the old one, hehe:

http://www.windcry.com/Windcry_CSS_Control_v1.jzml.zip


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## Silence-is-Golden (Mar 18, 2018)

Saxer said:


> That's what I mean: this library is missing a full delay mode where *all* articulations have the *same* delay.
> That means that every articulation should have 300ms delay in the delayed mode.
> And for recording and playing there should be a fast mode for everything.
> 
> Shouldn't be a real problem to add delay to the faster samples. Orangetree offers such a mode switch in their angelic harp: a realtime mode and a delayed mode with some fingernail noise before the note starts.


Did you put this possible solution to Alex?
It would make a world of difference for the post editing..... 

I don’t know how much scripting this would be in Kontakt, maybe thats what he doesn’t want to go back to?


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## bc3po (Mar 19, 2018)

I just play in all my long notes ahead of the beat slightly (whatever seems to sound good by ear). And my shorts I quantize and have a midi predelay on the track of about 30ish ms.


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## Mike McCarthy (Mar 20, 2018)

For Cubase users, the Logical Editor offers a good solution. I have a CSS Legato Macro that quantises all notes, then moves all overlapping notes ahead of the beat by the precise amount needed, but leaving the start-notes on the grid (they don't need to move). At the same time it sets the velocity of all overlapping notes to trigger the medium legato-speed transitions (the one I use most often). Play the part - select the notes - hit the Macro key. Done.

If I then want some notes to have Fast or Slow transitions (or Portamento), then simply selecting those notes and hitting shortcut keys "F", "S" or "P" changes the velocity of the selected notes and advances the note-positions accordingly.

A track off-set of 90ms to 100ms puts everything nicely on the click, including shorts (but you obviously do not use the Legato Macro on shorts).

For playing in legato parts, I use an Input Transformer to trigger fast-legato only.


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## Counterpointer (Mar 23, 2018)

Is anyone else bothered by the weird release of notes in sustain mode? I notice I usually want it around 70 because the default release time makes it bleed to much, and below 70 it sounds choked. Other than that it's great.


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## aaronventure (Mar 23, 2018)

Counterpointer said:


> Is anyone else bothered by the weird release of notes in sustain mode? I notice I usually want it around 70 because the default release time makes it bleed to much, and below 70 it sounds choked. Other than that it's great.


Yeah, the release setting is like the shower temperature mixer.


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## Counterpointer (Mar 23, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Yeah, the release setting is like the shower temperature mixer.



Exactly! HAHA


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## Rob Elliott (Mar 23, 2018)

I set the release to a CC slider to adjust as the music flows. One of two points will make a difference for sure..


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## Igor Sena (Aug 3, 2020)

Mike McCarthy said:


> For Cubase users, the Logical Editor offers a good solution. I have a CSS Legato Macro that quantises all notes, then moves all overlapping notes ahead of the beat by the precise amount needed, but leaving the start-notes on the grid (they don't need to move). At the same time it sets the velocity of all overlapping notes to trigger the medium legato-speed transitions (the one I use most often). Play the part - select the notes - hit the Macro key. Done.
> 
> If I then want some notes to have Fast or Slow transitions (or Portamento), then simply selecting those notes and hitting shortcut keys "F", "S" or "P" changes the velocity of the selected notes and advances the note-positions accordingly.
> 
> ...




Hello, there, Mike. 

Do you happen to know of a plug-in/program that does the same as the logical editor or that I can use to apply the same process for non Cubase users? 
This is such a great method and would save me alot of time. 

Thank you.


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## Simon Schrenk (Aug 3, 2020)

Igor Sena said:


> Hello, there, Mike.
> 
> Do you happen to know of a plug-in/program that does the same as the logical editor or that I can use to apply the same process for non Cubase users?
> This is such a great method and would save me alot of time.
> ...


You might be able to set something like this up in Reaper (as it seems to be able to do everything :D ).
For Logic there is a program called Thalos somewhere in this forum that does that automatically.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Aug 3, 2020)

Simon Schrenk said:


> For Logic there is a program called Thalos somewhere in this forum that does that automatically.



Thanos - https://vi-control.net/community/threads/free-permanent-fix-for-css-legato.71972/

Works great. You do have to turn the scripter MIDI FX off if you want to play live though. Minor inconvenience.


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## Igor Sena (Aug 4, 2020)

Simon Schrenk said:


> You might be able to set something like this up in Reaper (as it seems to be able to do everything :D ).
> For Logic there is a program called Thalos somewhere in this forum that does that automatically.




Hello, Simon. 
Thank you for the reply. 
Sadly, neither of the ones i own are those. It would have to be something that works in several DAWs.


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## C.Franzén (Aug 4, 2020)

I am actually not that bothered by the delay after having used CSS for a couple of years now. I always play in everything and you sort of learn to play ahead of the beat with this library, and you get a feel for the different legato transitions. but of course there is quite a bit of minute tweaking involved as always after its been recorded to get it to sit perfectly. with the short articulations I usually play it in, quantize it, and then move everything forward so that it aligns with the beat. I do think its worth it because of the wonderful sound of that library - I find myself reaching for it most of the time, even though I have a lot of different string libraries.


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## GingerMaestro (Aug 4, 2020)

There are a few options I use when programming CSS, I feel you kind of have to "program" the Legato to get it to sound good, rather than just play it it. 

You can just use the "Classic" Legato patches to play the lines in. This plays much like any VI with no delay, however is not quite as realistic as the standard or advanced legatos.

The other way to do it, is to play your lines in using another patch, whether that be CSS Classic legato, another string library altogether or even just a piano, clean it up, quantize it etc, then pull into a track running the afore mentioned Thanos. This is generally my prefered method. You have to fiddle around with it a bit and learn how to do it, but a little time at the beginning is worth the pay off..

FYI, I now run the legato on one track and the shorts on a second track per instrument as quick key switching between articulations can be a bit hit and miss...

Good luck


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## muziksculp (Aug 4, 2020)

imho. the variable legato delays of CSS are a pain to deal with, I would love to see Alex update this library with a better method of dealing with the legato latency system, that is easier to manage, and producers similar results.

This is a weakness of this library, I would even say a problem, the fact that users are trying to find solutions to this issue via scripts, logical editors, and other ways to solve the problem in their DAWs, ..etc. This is a problem. Let's not try to call it a great feature, since almost everyone using this library seems to have to deal with it, and try to fix it using some kind of helper tools to speed up the fix.


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## muk (Aug 5, 2020)

@muziksculp have you seen this script?






CSS (Cinematic Studios) Control Panel - CSS/CSSS/CSB/CSW legato delay solution + other features (1.8, now with Winds!)


Hi, This community is grand and has provided so many useful things for me. I have been tooling with a script to automatically offset the notes in CSS, based on what articulation you have set and I would like to share this with you. A control panel for Cinematic Studio Strings, Cinematic Studio...




vi-control.net





Makes it a breeze to deal with the legato. You set the script, set cc13 to a value of 1, and disable advanced legato in CSS. Play everything in. The delay is constant and doesn't change. After you are done playing in, switch on advanced legato in CSS, set cc13 to a value of 127. And done. You have now three different legato speeds - one of the great features of this library - and the script automatically compensates the various delays. No need to fiddle with note timings to adjust the legato delays. Simply turn on advanced legato and set cc13 to 127. That's all you need to do.



muziksculp said:


> This is a problem. Let's not try to call it a great feature, since almost everyone using this library seems to have to deal with it, and try to fix it using some kind of helper tools to speed up the fix.



Well, the legatos of Cinematic Studio Strings are a great feature. They are heads and shoulders above most competitors in that regard. For me, even if I had to adjust every single legato note individually it would be worth the time. But with @Ihnoc's script you don't have to. So in my view, not a problem at all.


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## muziksculp (Aug 5, 2020)

muk said:


> @muziksculp have you seen this script?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi muk,

Thanks for recommending the CSS delay script, I will give it a try. 

Q. So I do not need to set any track negative delay in my DAW (Studio One Pro 5), when using this script with CSS, it does all the delay compensations automatically ?


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## muk (Aug 5, 2020)

Yes, you need to set a negative delay compensation of -330ms. If Studio One Pro 5 does not have that feature, alternatively you could move all notes forward 330ms by hand after having them played in and quantized if necessary. That should work too.


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## muziksculp (Aug 5, 2020)

muk said:


> Yes, you need to set a negative delay compensation of -330ms. If Studio One Pro 5 does not have that feature, alternatively you could move all notes forward 330ms by hand after having them played in and quantized if necessary. That should work too.



Thanks for the feedback.

Studio One Pro 5 has both negative, and positivie track dealy compensation, but the negative compensation for values over 50 ms. especially for fast rhythmic notes has a bug, Presonus is working on a fix, hopefully soon. But I'm willing to give it a try, and set the track/s to -330 ms. and see what happens. 

I wish there was a Youtube video showing this script in action, and all the details of setting it up, workflow, ..etc. I don't think I found any videos for it.


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## Lukas (Aug 11, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Studio One Pro 5 has both negative, and positivie track dealy compensation, but the negative compensation for values over 50 ms. especially for fast rhythmic notes has a bug, Presonus is working on a fix, hopefully soon.


There it is... 5.0.1 has just been released:


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## muziksculp (Aug 11, 2020)

Hi @Lukas ,

That's Awesome !

Thanks for the heads up.

They also mention they have fixed the Automation getting lost when changing scenes.

I wonder what 'Added touch strip Control Link mode' is about ?

Cheers,
Muziksculp


*Version 5.0.1 Release Notes (August 11, 2020):

New features and improvements:*
● Studio One Prime and Demo versions are now available
● [Browser] External instruments can now be searched from home tab
● [Atom SQ] Editor type can now be changed from device
● [Atom SQ] Added touch strip Control Link mode
● Automation on folder track now follows editing

*The following issues have been fixed:*
● [macOS] Crash with certain animations while editing
● [macOS] User interface redraws incompletely in certain situations
● [macOS] NI Komplete Kontrol: frozen metering in mixer mode
● [macOS] Memory leak on playing certain loops
● [Windows] System high DPI override setting not working

● [Project Page] Update mastering file updates waveform but not playback until project closed and reopened
● [Project Page] Spectrum Meter Sonogram time axis is scaled differently after changing speeds
● [Mixer Scenes] Recall misses sends pre/post switch
● [Mixer Scenes] VCA levels are not reset correctly
● [Mixer Scenes] Automation connection lost when switching scenes
● [Show Page] Potential crash when switching fast among multiple setlist items
● [Show Page] Plug-in windows open outside of screen in templates
● [Score Editor] Unwanted modification on changing instrument part length
● [Score Editor] Potential crash when editing quickly
● [Score Editor] Potential freeze on loading large projects
● [Score Editor] Potential crash when resizing notes events
● [Score Editor] Copying certain notes while Chord Track is active changes the entire instrument part

● [Melodyne Integration] Potential crash on opening a shared song with Melodyne 4.x edits
● [Melodyne Integration] Potential crash on editor state change
● [FaderPort Classic] Hitting "Proj" won't open Editor
● [Atom SQ] Wrong bank indication for steps while in Pattern Editor
● [Atom SQ] Misc. incorrect button LED states under certain conditions
● [Tempo Track] Unwanted tempo nodes are added when copying to/from Scratch Pad

● [Analog Delay] Time parameter is not synced
● [Pro EQ²] Wrong latency reported when LLC is enabled
● [Pro EQ²] Micro view doesn't update from macro control changes
● [Pro EQ²] High and low pass on/off doesn't update curve in UI
● [Batch Converter] Potential crash when pasting data from Pool
● [Multiband Dynamics] Undo is not working entirely
● [Performance Monitor] Window disappears behind Editors
● [Pattern Editor] Play cursor jumps out of loop area
● [Ampire] Noisy click on instantiation in certain setups
● [Ampire] Switching mono/stereo mutes amp reverb
● [SampleOne] UI controls don't activate when loading or removing sample

● [Note Editor] Notes not selected due to lost focus
● [Note Editor] Scroll bars disappear in certain situations
● [PreSonus Sphere] New add-ons fail activation in certain cases
● Negative track delay playback inconsistent
● Crash on dragging multiple external instruments to the arrangement
● Graphical glitches in audio waveform representation
● Wrong audio played back after relocating in Pool
● Potential crash on enabling tracks
● Record arm won't toggle via key command when folder is assigned to bus
● Unwanted tempo nodes added when copying arranger section to/from Scratch Pad
● First notes of external devices are played too early at high buffer settings
● "Insert Selected Item" command doesn't work on External Instruments
● Automation of instrument delay parameters causes high CPU load
● Drop-outs when using multiple Multi Instruments
● Potential crash when removing VST3 FX plug-in with active event input


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## Lukas (Aug 11, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> They also mention they have fixed the Automation getting lost when changing scenes.


Yes... another nice fix.



muziksculp said:


> I wonder what 'Added touch strip Control Link mode' is about ?


Do you have a ATOM SQ? It has a touch strip with can be linked to parameters in Studio One.


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## muziksculp (Aug 11, 2020)

Lukas said:


> Yes... another nice fix.
> 
> 
> Do you have a ATOM SQ? It has a touch strip with can be linked to parameters in Studio One.



Oh.. I see. No I don't have the new ATOM SQ, I have the older ATOM. Which is very cool. 

Thanks.


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## NeonMediaKJT (Aug 11, 2020)

i feel like i'm the only one who hasn't got a massive issue with the delay. Play it in, drag notes back that come in too late and done. Short notes are easier to program in anyway, imo.


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## BassClef (Aug 11, 2020)

I usually.....

1) play the parts with no legato
2) then quantize to something like 90% and 10-15% swing for realism
3) then I highlight all notes in the piano roll and drag right so all overlap the next note slightly. 
4) then I go back to the notes that are the first note in a phrase. I will then shorten the preceding note to create some space. 
5) then I turn on advanced legato
6) then I set the appropriate delay on that track and playback to be sure notes are on the click... adjust delay if necessary.
7) then I go back to those"phrase starting" notes and either change the articulation (using Babylon Waves articulation set) to "long" OR leave that note legato but drag it slightly to the right to offset the track delay.

ALL DONE MUCH FASTER THAN TYPING THIS!


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## Soundbed (Jun 23, 2021)

BassClef said:


> I usually.....
> 
> 1) play the parts with no legato
> 2) then quantize to something like 90% and 10-15% swing for realism
> ...


Are you changing velocities, therefore changing how long it takes for each transition to complete? Or are all your velocities at the "fastest" speed, so it's consistent?


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## Pablocrespo (Jun 23, 2021)

I wish Alex would explore MSS new lookahead function!


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## muziksculp (Jun 23, 2021)

Pablocrespo said:


> I wish Alex would explore MSS new lookahead function!


There will be a new Low-Latency Mode that will also be very good sounding according to Alex. This will be added to all of his Cinematic Studio Series libraries via Updates. The first one that will be out soon with this new feature will be Cinematic Studio Woodwinds. 

You can also email Alex W. via their support, to inform him about the lookahead feature. He is very responsive, and might be interested.


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## Soundbed (Jun 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> There will be a new Low-Latency Mode that will also be very good sounding according to Alex. This will be added to all of his Cinematic Studio Series libraries via Updates. The first one that will be out soon with this new feature will be Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.
> 
> You can also email Alex W. via their support, to inform him about the lookahead feature. He is very responsive, and might be interested.


Low latency is one thing (MSS can do that too) but the subtlety that can be achieved with a few hundred ms of lookahead is a sound many VI-C "legato police" (a term of adoration) seem to crave.


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## muziksculp (Jun 23, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> Low latency is one thing (MSS can do that too) but the subtlety that can be achieved with a few hundred ms of lookahead is a sound many VI-C "legato police" (a term of adoration) seem to crave.


Interesting. 

I don't know much about the MSS Lookahead feature for legato, and how it works, or how good it sounds. 

I also don't know how Alex W. has implemented his new Low-Latency Mode. Maybe he is using some type of lookahead feature already.


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## brek (Jun 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> There will be a new Low-Latency Mode that will also be very good sounding according to Alex. This will be added to all of his Cinematic Studio Series libraries via Updates. The first one that will be out soon with this new feature will be Cinematic Studio Woodwinds.
> 
> You can also email Alex W. via their support, to inform him about the lookahead feature. He is very responsive, and might be interested.


 

I love how consistent and reliable timings are in CS libs, but I'd like to see a "high latency" mode as well. Essentially, set track pre-delay to -330ms and all notes - regardless of articulation or overlap - can be quantized or aligned on the grid.


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## Casiquire (Jun 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I don't know much about the MSS Lookahead feature for legato, and how it works, or how good it sounds.
> 
> I also don't know how Alex W. has implemented his new Low-Latency Mode. Maybe he is using some type of lookahead feature already.


The implementation is really good with MSS. It's a little button on the main page and only playback is affected so you can still play on the keyboard in real time with low latency, but once you push play in your DAW the longer transitions and delay kick in, and it's all a consistent 400ms across all articulations. And they sound delicious.


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## muziksculp (Jun 23, 2021)

Casiquire said:


> The implementation is really good with MSS. It's a little button on the main page and only playback is affected so you can still play on the keyboard in real time with low latency, but once you push play in your DAW the longer transitions and delay kicks in, and it's all a consistent 400ms across all articulations. And they sound delicious.


Thanks for explaining this. 

This method would be a wonderful option if Alex W. can implement it. Easy to use, and does the job with a push of a button, magical.  

But, I have no idea how he is implementing his new low-latency legato mode. I guess we will know more about it after the CSW Update is released. Hopefully soon, whatever that means these days.


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## Casiquire (Jun 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for explaining this.
> 
> This method would be a wonderful option if Alex W. can implement it. Easy to use, and does the job with a push of a button, magical.
> 
> But, I have no idea how he is implementing his new low-latency legato mode. I guess we will know more about it after the CSW Update is released. Hopefully soon, whatever that means these days.


He's a bright one. I think we can have high expectations and doubt we'll be disappointed


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## Soundbed (Jun 23, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I also don't know how Alex W. has implemented his new Low-Latency Mode. Maybe he is using some type of lookahead feature already.


well, I understand what you're saying (I really do) but to be precise, I'd consider lookahead and low latency — by definition — to be mutually exclusive features


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## muziksculp (Jun 23, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> well, I understand what you're saying (I really do) but to be precise, I'd consider lookahead and low latency — by definition — to be mutually exclusive features


Yes, I know what you mean here. 

The thing is we have no clue how Alex W. is implementing his new Low-Latency option.


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