# I need to whine about transcribing.



## Studio E (Sep 17, 2015)

Man, I hate to be a whiner, but I'm hoping that someone can maybe give me an angle here that will make it all seem more do-able.

I barely read music, let alone write on staves. Anything actually ON the staff, I'm fairly decent at, ledger lines usually make me pause to count. Which brings up rhythm. I am NOT good at it. I pretty much understand it, but to write what I hear? It would take me forever to figure it out and I'd have to play it back to know if I was correct.

I know that transcribing music is probably the single best thing I can do to get better at writing. I write all the time, in Cubase from my 88 key controller and I also use the key editor. 

So I would like nothing more than to take a couple cues from Danny Elfman's Charolette's Web score and transcribe it to better understand the general motion, key changes, etc, but it just seems overwhelming. God that sounds pathetic doesn't it. 

Can anyone maybe just give me some ideas on a system to start taking this stuff on. Maybe I just need a kick in the pants, but I really do want to be able to do this stuff. Ideas?


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## autopilot (Sep 17, 2015)

You're right. Transcribing is the most awesome training tool. So just do it. 

Just do one part at a time. One note at a time. 

Start with just the simplest easiest part. What's just the triangle doing?? Then what's just the baboon doing? 

(best autocorrect ever) - you can even check the bassoon as well if you like. 

Get towards the hard stuff as you go - and you'll keep going because you'll have already started. 

Personally - I like to start by lining it up in my DAW and get the audio recoding of what I'm transcribing in time with the click / cubase meter. 

Then I can just program / transcribe along. 

Then mute the recording. What's missing? Have another go. Amazing ear training and you'll get better at phrasing and emulation too. 

Every time you do it you'll get a bit better and learn something.

So start with that baboon part and see where you get to from there.


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## Mike Marino (Sep 17, 2015)

I'd say start small. Just work on transcribing a bar or two or four at a time so that it's not so time consuming. I'd also start with pieces of music that you like AND that you can get the score to so that you know if your transcription is correct. That's where the learning happens. It's hearing it, putting it under your fingers so that you can see the movement and relationship of notes and voicing, writing it down (or programming it in).....then comparing it to what's actually on the page to see what you got correct and what you got wrong.


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## Studio E (Sep 17, 2015)

See? I didn't even realize they used baboons! No wonder I suck at this :(


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## AlexandreSafi (Sep 17, 2015)

Hello Eric! No worries about all this, "the first test of a great man is his humility" i'll make my advice short: Get those 2 books!...

_-Elementary Training for Musicians_ (2nd Edition) [Paul _Hindemith_]

https://www.google.ch/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hindemith+elementary+training

_-Hearing and Writing Music_: Professional Training for Today's Musician (2nd Edition)

http://www.amazon.com/Hearing-Writing-M ... 0962949671

1) The First one (Hindemith) gets right down to the practice of sight-reading, it's very hard & ego-crushing (he's German what do you expect...), but it's also perfect for the person who (like me when i started...) wants to learn pen-paper the fast & direct way, by doing & figuring it out all at-once, and not through isolated theory!...
Hindemith was one of the greats of the 20th century, so you'll be in good hands exercise-wise (use the piano as advised, it's faster i noticed), and you can always stop when you feel you've had all you need from the book!

2) The second one, which i humbly tried to describe extensively back in early 2014 here: http://vi-control.net/community/thr...todays-musician-ron-gorow.38141/#post-3786302 assumes basic reading skills, but is a perfect labor of love for assisting the musician get through the most specific details of the linear & always rewarding process of transcription "from melody up to orchestral music" -- through pure ear training, hence even training yourself to write AWAY from your instrument

The whole [Imaginative/"Memoric" Mind's Ear vs. Aural reflexes to capture the moment in notation] you described struggling with, is obviously entirely linked to both your analytical aural skills & sight-reading skills, which again can be taken care with both these books! You get what you put into, but thanks to this stupid word-game i just -probably even not- invented which i call the triple P (Passion, patience, persistence), you'll be rewarded for life in a way I'm sure you'll find very tangible every day of your life...

That's all for the basics which should get you going where you need to be, i'm sure you can also learn to read & write faster by writing more and if you really want to sight-read, and i mean "read at sight", then i guess the next step is sight-read every day new material in front of your eyes.

But what do I know, Experience usually only points to relative truth so...!
God damn, i could have made this advice indeed shorter, simpler & humbler, couldn't I?!
-A.s.-


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## bryla (Sep 17, 2015)

Elementary Training for Musicians is only elementary om the first two pages 

Anyway it's still a good book you will have for decades to come!

Why not start small? I started transcribing just the melody of Britney Spears songs when I was a kid. I did those pop melodies for years before I could start on bass lines. Once you have got those two covered you're good to go. 

Otherwise I will recommend Ottmans sight singing book. It introduces you to reading rhythms and melodies and that way you will be more familiar with how to notate music you hear.


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## Studio E (Sep 18, 2015)

Hey folks, thanks for the helpful links and advice. Be assured I'm looking into all of it. I really like that you guys pointed me to exercises. I like the idea of a lesson plan that drags me through it step by step. Thank you so much!


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## SillyMidOn (Sep 18, 2015)

Make sure you can read well first. Go to

http://www.musictheory.net/exercises

... where you an set up your own note reading exercises, structured by clef, range, if you want sharps and flats or not etc etc. My little son learnt to read bass and treble clef in a matter of just a few weeks. There are also exercises for note timings and other useful stuff. Also use the interval identification exercise, to get good at recognising intervals - very necessary for transcription.

Transcribing? Make sure you have a good handle on the stuff above, then start small. Transcribe something which you have the music to, transcribe it, without looking at the music, then once you are done, check where you went wrong. Keep doing that - it takes years to get good at. Also transcribe away from an instrument, just with the recording and pencil and paper (no access to an instrument to check what you re doing), just as it is done in music college exams - a very humbling exercise to do at first, but it really sharpens your senses.

Hope that helps.


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## Smikes77 (Sep 18, 2015)

SillyMidOn said:


> Make sure you can read well first. Go to
> 
> http://www.musictheory.net/exercises
> 
> ...




+1 Big time

It would help you if you knew what rhythms sounded like on the page. Try something like this

https://practicesightreading.com/create.php


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## sharmayelverton (Dec 28, 2015)

You can get benefit from transcribing by figuring out the parts but without actually writing it down. You can just play parts on your instrument and memorise material. A large number of jazz musicians developed this way. 

However I do also advocate for improving your reading and writing skills. In the grand scheme of things they are not the hardest skills to master once you get over the hump. I found Sibelius very helpful when I was getting to grips with this as you can attempt to write your ideas and then get immediate playback. After a while it just gets easier.


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## Orchestrata (Dec 28, 2015)

Seconding what autopilot said; that's pretty much what I did when I started out, and it ended up being so much fun I still do it all the time. You develop constantly and it never feels like work  It's also a good compliment to getting your reading and writing skills up to snuff.


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## mverta (Dec 28, 2015)

Don't start with orchestral pieces. Start with simpler palettes - pop pieces, rock pieces, etc., where you already have an idea of the limited number of colors being used. Then move up to big band or chamber pieces - limited instrumentation. A lot of people struggle even with separating two guitar parts and bass notes at first.


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## afterlight82 (Dec 29, 2015)

No better way to learn orchestration fundamentals than by transcription, especially of solo repertoire for each instrument. That's another big upside. Next best thing to Hindemith's (supposed) approach (learning to play every single instrument!).


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## sharmayelverton (Dec 30, 2015)

afterlight82 said:


> No better way to learn orchestration fundamentals than by transcription, especially of solo repertoire for each instrument. That's another big upside. Next best thing to Hindemith's (supposed) approach (learning to play every single instrument!).


Ha, I have sometimes contemplated trying that ... at least the basics. Could be fun.


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## JimmyPoppa (Jan 5, 2016)

Eric,

When you're first learning transcribing in music school it's just called Dictation, and there are lots of progressive methods to take you there step by step. IMO, this is the real key: you need a step-by-step method to get you from where you are to where you can transcribe without pain.

Here are a couple of tools that might be helpful:

 - This is an old school CD set that starts with very, very basic 8 measure exercises which are played on a piano. You are given the key (starting in C) and then you hear some notes, which you try to write down. It later progresses to two notes, basic triads, basic rhythms and finally two separate parts. There is an accompanying booklet that has all the answers as well as some theory explanations so you can check your work. There's nothing crazy, no tricks, no other instrumentation, just simple dictation exercises.

http://dictation.ccdmd.qc.ca/presentation.php - This is a free, online music dictation website. It has exercises in melodic, rhythmic and harmonic dictation in four levels. There are other free, online resources like this if you want to search.

Finally, there are quite a few, ear training software programs and apps, some of which are very good. I use several of them as do all of my students. When you're talking about working toward the ability to transcribe, it's not your ability to sightread that should come first, it's your ability to instantly recognize what you are hearing. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether you write the notes out by hand, or play them into your MIDI device. You want to be able to do whichever one immediately as you're hearing it. The path to that is through rock solid ear training. Here are just a few of the many, many resources for that:

Apps:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/relative-pitch-free-interval/id315130701?mt=8

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/auralia-interval-recognition/id694552513?mt=8

Programs:

http://www.earmaster.com/

http://www.risingsoftware.com/auralia/

http://www.miles.be/software/34-functional-ear-trainer-v2

There are many, many more.

Transcribing is not one of those genius things that only certain gifted people can do. It's a skill that anyone can learn with a little dedication and an organized, progression. You can definitely do it.

Hope this helps.

Be Well,

Jimmy


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## Morodiene (Jan 6, 2016)

Great advice here, especially starting with something simple - not an entire orchestra. And Jimmy is right, do simple dictation first.

Another thing that you can do, which may be hard to believe, is simply _copying_ scores. You have the original score in front of you, and blank staff paper, a pencil and an eraser. Then just copy. You may want to start with something like Bach WTC or something, and you don't have to do the entire book, but try one prelude and fugue. This is how Bach taught his children to compose, and you will learn a lot. 

Over time, as you do this you will begin to sing it in your head as you are copying. Once that connection is made, then you will be better equipped to write what you hear in another piece of music, and eventually write what music you create in your mind.


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