# Performance Samples: Solos of the Sea



## rlundv (Jul 17, 2018)

So this just showed up on Facebook!  Thoughts? Is this the library from the alpha-demo on Soundcloud?


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## Wally Garten (Jul 17, 2018)

Cool! Though I'll be a sad camper if this is another one that won't work with Logic.


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## reddognoyz (Jul 17, 2018)

I don't know what expressive pitch memory legato is... but I want to find out


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## constaneum (Jul 17, 2018)

I heard some noise in the sample around 2s....hmm....


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## Brendon Williams (Jul 17, 2018)

Wally Garten said:


> Cool! Though I'll be a sad camper if this is another one that won't work with Logic.


For what it’s worth, I use Logic and have had no issues with any of the Performance Samples libraries I’ve purchased. I’ve simply ignored the disclaimer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Wolf68 (Jul 17, 2018)

I like the design idea...


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## Consona (Jul 18, 2018)

Good timing.


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## desert (Jul 18, 2018)

Sounds amazing!


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## Wolf68 (Jul 18, 2018)

Consona said:


> Good timing.


Heyyy...quite a bunch of guest stars in there...


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## boxheadboy50 (Jul 18, 2018)

Brendon Williams said:


> For what it’s worth, I use Logic and have had no issues with any of the Performance Samples libraries I’ve purchased. I’ve simply ignored the disclaimer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Are you using it with VEPro on a slave? Or directly in Logic?


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## axb312 (Aug 30, 2018)

What happened to the whole Con Moto series? Or is this separate?


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## Eptesicus (Aug 30, 2018)

axb312 said:


> What happened to the whole Con Moto series?



Yes i was looking forward to the whole set. Surprised at least the violins aren't done yet.


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## DeactivatedAcc (Aug 30, 2018)

Dear axb312,

I am in production with the remaining Con Moto sections and they are on track for release later this year (within 2018). I re-recorded the violins - so there will be two independent violin sections released.

Solos of the Sea is entirely separate - it's a set of solo strings and will be available modularly (Solo Violin A is the first release). It's along the same lines as Con Moto as far as movement and expression, with the active-bow sustains and a concept I have called pitch-memory legato which helps with intonation and timbral coherence in shorter legato.





Best,
Jasper


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## axb312 (Aug 30, 2018)

Jasper Blunk said:


> Dear axb312,
> 
> I am in production with the remaining Con Moto sections and they are on track for release later this year (within 2018). I re-recorded the violins - so there will be two independent violin sections released.
> 
> ...



Thank you Jasper - so the primary difference between the two lines is pitch memory legato, which I suppose will help with legato runs?


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## boxheadboy50 (Aug 30, 2018)

axb312 said:


> ... primary difference between the two lines ...


Con Moto are section libraries. Solos of the Sea, as the name suggests, are solo instruments.


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## Eptesicus (Aug 30, 2018)

Jasper Blunk said:


> Dear axb312,
> 
> I am in production with the remaining Con Moto sections and they are on track for release later this year (within 2018). I re-recorded the violins - so there will be two independent violin sections released.



Oh interesting. So basically a sort of 1st and 2nd violins? Was the re-record due to issues or just so there could be two sections?


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## axb312 (Aug 30, 2018)

boxheadboy50 said:


> Con Moto are section libraries. Solos of the Sea, as the name suggests, are solo instruments.


Oh right. I seem to have somehow glanced right over that. Silly me. Thanks!


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## DeactivatedAcc (Aug 30, 2018)

axb312 said:


> Thank you Jasper - so the primary difference between the two lines is pitch memory legato, which I suppose will help with legato runs?



The legato will 'play' similarly to Con Moto. Pitch-memory is more of a technical/recording solution for wrangling tonal variance between legato and sus assets.



Eptesicus said:


> Oh interesting. So basically a sort of 1st and 2nd violins? Was the re-record due to issues or just so there could be two sections?



You'll have two fully functioning violin sections, one of which was recorded spread out between 1st and 2nd violin seating, and the other which was in 1st violin seating only.


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## Allen Constantine (Aug 31, 2018)

Jasper Blunk said:


> Dear axb312,
> 
> I am in production with the remaining Con Moto sections and they are on track for release later this year (within 2018). I re-recorded the violins - so there will be two independent violin sections released.
> 
> ...




So, when does Solos of the Sea come out? Really lovely legato transition there!


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## Wolf68 (Sep 1, 2018)

Jasper Blunk said:


> Dear axb312,
> 
> I am in production with the remaining Con Moto sections and they are on track for release later this year (within 2018). I re-recorded the violins - so there will be two independent violin sections released.
> 
> ...



Ok. I'm impressed. These high tones sound silky expressive excellent.


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## midiman (Sep 1, 2018)

Jasper Blunk said:


> Dear axb312,
> 
> I am in production with the remaining Con Moto sections and they are on track for release later this year (within 2018). I re-recorded the violins - so there will be two independent violin sections released.
> 
> ...




Dear Jasper, Can you give us an idea of when in September this will come out. So excited to buy this one.


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 3, 2018)

Looking forward to naked walkthroughs (with little or no verb.)


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## Tekkera (Sep 5, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> Looking forward to naked walkthroughs (with little or no verb.)


It's probably the hall, have you heard fluid shorts? Wet as hell, thought it had reverb on the demos but nope, just the hall.


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## VOLCANO123455 (Sep 5, 2018)

It sounds amazingly beautiful! And the concept of no key switching is just <3

Does solos of the sea have all other string instruments? (viola, cello) etc?

Will the samples have portamento slides?

Thanks and can't wait for release.


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## LamaRose (Sep 5, 2018)

Tekkera said:


> It's probably the hall, have you heard fluid shorts? Wet as hell, thought it had reverb on the demos but nope, just the hall.



From one of the demo writers: "The room on the solos is fairly dry so you'll have to add your own tail but there's enough early reflections to have everything sitting in nicely out of the box! the perspective is centered but just panning it to a side and adding some tail will have it sitting nicely in the section."


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## Daniel James (Sep 12, 2018)

I had a swing at writing something with the Beta. As with all Performance Samples libraries its on extremely well done focused patch. To me it sounds and plays amazing 



-DJ


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## Fry777 (Sep 13, 2018)

Top notch. Looking forward to the release


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## JanR (Sep 13, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> Looking forward to naked walkthroughs (with little or no verb.)



Here it is


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## midiman (Sep 26, 2018)

Any news on the release date?


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## lucor (Sep 26, 2018)

Another mighty impressive quick improv (played in with one take and no further editing)


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## muziksculp (Sep 27, 2018)

It's released : https://performancesamples.com/sots-soloviolin-a/

*Available at $99 intro pricing through September 30, 2018 (full price: $139)*


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## fixxer49 (Sep 27, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> It's released : https://performancesamples.com/sots-soloviolin-a/
> 
> *Available at $99 intro pricing through September 30, 2018 (full price: $139)*



from the Library Limitations section of PS website: 
"All the elements of the library (legatos, sustains, attacks, releases, etc) *are on the same delay*, which allow you to play in your parts, quantize them, set the track delay to -140 ms and have everything be on the beat."

i think this is a nice touch (more of a feature than a limitation, actually), and very thoughtful. especially considering how some other libraries, while sounding good, have wildly inconsistent delay times depending on the articulation.


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## LamaRose (Sep 27, 2018)

No walkthrough? On sale for three days? One dynamic layer. Only bowed legato. Sounds nice, but there's too much competition online and coming online to bite on this.


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## Eptesicus (Sep 27, 2018)

LamaRose said:


> No walkthrough? On sale for three days? One dynamic layer. Only bowed legato. Sounds nice, but there's too much competition online and coming online to bite on this.



Indeed. It sounds lovely, but it is again a lot of money for just legato/sustains and one mic position.

It sounds good, but not hugely better than the solo violin 1 in Cinestrings solo that i already have (reminds me of it quite a lot actually).


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## Vartio (Sep 27, 2018)

It's most likely quite alot more playable and flexible than you'd think... No keyswitches and barely any modwheel input. Maybe just a little bit since I can't hold my hands off from wiggling it just a bit all the time. The shorts are dependent on weather you play short notes or not and not any funky velocity triggers etc. Just play it and it'll do its thing. It's not really meant to do shorts but that's just a by product of how its sampled and the playability. It can do alot.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6y3wqmvkobdhdv9/little demo ditty.mp4?dl=0
Edit: the webcam framerate is a bit wonky, so bear that in mind


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## chapbot (Sep 27, 2018)

Vartio said:


> It's most likely quite alot more playable and flexible than you'd think... No keyswitches and barely any modwheel input. Maybe just a little bit since I can't hold my hands off from wiggling it just a bit all the time. The shorts are dependent on weather you play short notes or not and not any funky velocity triggers etc. Just play it and it'll do its thing. It's not really meant to do shorts but that's just a by product of how its sampled and the playability. It can do alot.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6y3wqmvkobdhdv9/little demo ditty.mp4?dl=0



that was a cool video demo, thanks - it doesn't appear like there's any latency when you play?


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## Vartio (Sep 27, 2018)

There is a bit but it's very manageable. I can feel it totally, but it's consistent enough that it just kinda feels like you upped your buffer a touch.


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## Sid Francis (Sep 27, 2018)

Thanks, Vartio, really helpfull to judge playability!! Though I need more time to decide and need more delicate demos. The sound (not the playing, that was good) of lucor sounds so mid-heavy and a bit rough and Vartios demo sounds much more even: only a question of the difference in volume? I need more impressions. Someone with a heartmelting melody by this violin at hand?


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## X-Bassist (Sep 27, 2018)

Vartio said:


> It's most likely quite alot more playable and flexible than you'd think... No keyswitches and barely any modwheel input. Maybe just a little bit since I can't hold my hands off from wiggling it just a bit all the time. The shorts are dependent on weather you play short notes or not and not any funky velocity triggers etc. Just play it and it'll do its thing. It's not really meant to do shorts but that's just a by product of how its sampled and the playability. It can do alot.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6y3wqmvkobdhdv9/little demo ditty.mp4?dl=0



Good example of when a video really helps, thanks. I’m not sure if you did this live or “pulled up” the audio track 140ms to account for delay. But it does show you how well the shorts work playing them against the long notes, makes it more appealing. Performances samples should do these kinds of videos. Even with the delay, it clearly shows the playability of the product.


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## Vartio (Sep 27, 2018)

Probably right it looks very close, I think it's just the webcam frame rate making things hard to judge really accurately. Maybe I'll have to unsync it a bit so it looks more correct. This was directly out of the win10 camera app so wasn't really thinking that it was that off but it definitely looks a little bit too on point xD so the video feed might have delay on it. let me investigate.

Edit: Yep the webcam framerate is absolutely rubbish, so take how the delay looks in the video with a grain of salt. It's not really that tight, but it's still very playable I find. Make a synth patch with a hard attack and add that 140ms delay on it, that's how it plays xD you can try it out on whatever synth you have around if you feel that that might be a issue.


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## jaketanner (Sep 27, 2018)

Waited months on end for one dynamic layer, and possibly up to a year to get another instrument? Why one layer lol? This is very limiting I think...I had high hopes for this one, but doesn't sound like there's portamento either, and like 3 articulations? The sound is great, but why such limitations?


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## MrCambiata (Sep 27, 2018)

It does look limited on paper but what can I say - it sounds amazing...


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## midiman (Sep 27, 2018)

It is a very musical instrument. Feels great to play. I am loving it.


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## Dirk Ehlert (Sep 28, 2018)

I just got it for a couple of minutes, Omni Texture on Sustain, a touch of Lexicon Large Hall hitting record and did one take of noodling around with it. I can only say, this thing is the first (solo) string library that makes me feel on the keys like actually "playing" a violin... it's kind of hard to describe, the playablilty is just exceptional and I never even thought about the fact that it might be "just one" layer - what does it matter if it sounds f)*^in brilliant? I can see even just this solo violin covering a lot of ground in future tracks. Just my 2c

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/sots_vlna_noodle-mp3.15448/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/sots_vlna_noodle-mp3.15448/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Eptesicus (Sep 28, 2018)

Dirk Ehlert said:


> I just got it for a couple of minutes, Omni Texture on Sustain, a touch of Lexicon Large Hall hitting record and did one take of noodling around with it. I can only say, this thing is the first (solo) string library that makes me feel on the keys like actually "playing" a violin... it's kind of hard to describe, the playablilty is just exceptional and I never even thought about the fact that it might be "just one" layer - what does it matter if it sounds f)*^in brilliant? I can see even just this solo violin covering a lot of ground in future tracks. Just my 2c
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/sots_vlna_noodle-mp3.15448/][/AUDIOPLUS]



It does sound lovely.

But it really does sound very much like cinesamples solo strings violin 1 in my opinion ( which I have).

That has potentially a lot more versatility and many more articulations/mic positions, and you get 5 instruments for only ~$240 when they do one of their 40% off sales.

Attached are a few examples of the cinestrings violin playing a few game/film tunes. Very similar and just as realistic sounding i think. 

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/fields-of-ard-skellige-mp3.15450/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/brave-mp3.15451/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Henu (Sep 28, 2018)

Not to completely derail the topic, but I've never realized the Cinestrings solo can sound that good!


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## vosk (Sep 28, 2018)

So, I think we have a great duet already  (paid + free violins together)

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/duet-mp3.15452/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Eptesicus (Sep 28, 2018)

Henu said:


> Not to completely derail the topic, but I've never realized the Cinestrings solo can sound that good!



It seems to be quite overlooked/underrated in my opinion. 

Ive just brought it up because it is very similar sounding to me and that makes this seem a little on the pricey side for what it is. 

I'm just poor though so always looking for the best bang for buck


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## ism (Sep 28, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Waited months on end for one dynamic layer, and possibly up to a year to get another instrument? Why one layer lol? This is very limiting I think...I had high hopes for this one, but doesn't sound like there's portamento either, and like 3 articulations? The sound is great, but why such limitations?




I'm wondering the same thing. But I don't think the traditional metrics (number of GB, number velocity layers etc) are what's important. The innovation is elsewhere. 

And clearly something sounds amazing in this instrument. But I'm having a hard time understanding how to meaningfully compare it to other instruments - Joshua Bell for instance.


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## vosk (Sep 28, 2018)

ism said:


> Joshua Bell for instance


Joshua Bell (vibrato set in to max)

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/joshua-mp3.15456/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## X-Bassist (Sep 28, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Waited months on end for one dynamic layer, and possibly up to a year to get another instrument? Why one layer lol? This is very limiting I think...I had high hopes for this one, but doesn't sound like there's portamento either, and like 3 articulations? The sound is great, but why such limitations?



The truth is, with Perf Samples, it’s about being able to play in lines quickly, with no keyswitches or separate patches, and getting a serviceable solo out of it. If you’re in doubt, download the free solo violin, it will give you an idea of how they work, but I would assume this is better (and has shorts). I’m sure it works brilliantly. The only drawback is all the competition, and considering I have Vir, Cinestrings Solo, and Chris Hein solo strings, it’s hard for me to spend more on another solo string.

But, just so people know, it may be a while before it’s on sale again and if it does in the next year, it will probably be the same price. Hopefully he will extend the intro sale (3 days is short, a week or so would be better), but don’t expect another for a while.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Sep 28, 2018)

+1 on extending the intro sale please. I'm just now seeing this and feeling a little rushed to decide.


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## ism (Sep 28, 2018)

vosk said:


> Joshua Bell (vibrato set in to max)
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/joshua-mp3.15456/][/AUDIOPLUS]



Thanks. 

Here's how I'm struggling to make evaluations SoS as compared to JB and other libraries.


JB, for instance, has 4 dynamic layers ~13 types of legato, simulated and recorded vibrato.

If we compare SoS and JB in terms of expressive range, JB wins obviously. 

But even with comparison of single line like this, I find if very difficult to draw meaningfully comparison. I just don't have much of a sense of what SoS is doing, or what its full expressive range is (beyond that it really does sound great).

So while this JB example comes across a bit flat compared to SoS, with different choices on the dynamics, on the legat, maybe some progressive vibrato via cc21 ... it can quite easily produce very different results for this line, which might conceivably be closer to SoS.

Similarly, Spitfire solo strings not only have 3 dynamic layers, but additionally the ability craft phrases across dynamic layers in way that even the JB doesn't. This is an effect I really like, to the point that its quite painful to switch to the Embertone and Vir instruments after working with spitfire solo instruments (and vice versa). So how this effect, which is completely missing from JB and SoS might (or might not) contribute to this kind of line ... is not at all clear, but a very interesting question. 


I've come to think about solo strings in terms of their relative sweet spots, as there's no solo string sample that comes remotely close to an "all round" instrument. 


I love the respective sweet spots of JB and Spitfire - though they are completely different, and the spitfire sweet spot took a while to fully get my head around. SoS ... well there's something that sounds like a real innovation here, but I'm still trying to fit it into the solo string library landscape. 


Very tempted to just buy it. But I don't feel I understand precisely what its sweet spot is yet. 

Nor have I've come even close to exhausting the Spitfire and Embertone possibilities yet.

Looking forward to more demos / reviews.


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## Leo (Sep 28, 2018)

Is any way to control vibrato in SoS? 
Quite I understand why SoS has only one layer, because it is trying to prevent have 'duet' sound in overlayers.
Nevertheless shame that such a nice instrument with great tone does not have one separate patch with pp...


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## sostenuto (Sep 28, 2018)

ism said:


> Thanks.
> Here's how I'm struggling to make evaluations SoS as compared to JB and other libraries. *****
> 
> If we compare SoS and JB in terms of expressive range, JB wins obviously. ****
> ...



This perspective helps my salient interests, as SoS price point and PS reputation make SoS attractive.
My current focus has been JB, after early critiques of SF_ Solo Strings. Since then, comments have moderated and SS broader strengths seem to outweigh very specific 'solo' criticisms. I hope my impressions are valid.

THX


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## chapbot (Sep 28, 2018)

I don't think people understand the thought behind Performance Samples - my impression is that they want their instruments to do one thing very well. In this case the violin sounds fantastic and a convincing melodic line can be created on the fly. Yes, Cinesamples solo violin does sound similar but I never use it because it is such a pain to program. SoS is fun to play and I find it difficult to make it even sound bad - there must be some really neat programming behind this thing.


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## jaketanner (Sep 28, 2018)

chapbot said:


> I don't think people understand the thought behind Performance Samples - my impression is that they want their instruments to do one thing very well. In this case the violin sounds fantastic and a convincing melodic line can be created on the fly. Yes, Cinesamples solo violin does sound similar but I never use it because it is such a pain to program. SoS is fun to play and I find it difficult to make it even sound bad - there must be some really neat programming behind this thing.



I own Cinesamples solo. Don’t have a problem programming. Unless you mean switching articulations? However, I love the sound of the free violin from PS, however why is there only one dynamic layer? My issue with them also, is they are releasing one instrument at a time, and not knowing when the rest will be released to create at least a quartet or a set of first chairs Is what is holding me back and I knew this ahead of time, and that’s why I purchased send us samples. I agree, if you are looking for just a violin, this one sounds great.


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## ism (Sep 28, 2018)

chapbot said:


> I don't think people understand the thought behind Performance Samples - my impression is that they want their instruments to do one thing very well. In this case the violin sounds fantastic and a convincing melodic line can be created on the fly. Yes, Cinesamples solo violin does sound similar but I never use it because it is such a pain to program. SoS is fun to play and I find it difficult to make it even sound bad - there must be some really neat programming behind this thing.



Are you saying the PS’s innovations are only at the level of playability, rather than than the legato? 





jaketanner said:


> I own Cinesamples solo. Don’t have a problem programming. Unless you mean switching articulations? However, I love the sound of the free violin from PS, however why is there only one dynamic layer? My issue with them also, is they are releasing one instrument at a time, and not knowing when the rest will be released to create at least a quartet or a set of first chairs Is what is holding me back and I knew this ahead of time, and that’s why I purchased send us samples. I agree, if you are looking for just a violin, this one sounds great.



I also wonder if the idea is to get 4 virtuosic solo instruments, or 4 instruments that will blend in a quartet. In any event, for quartet writing i would want more articulations, and more dynamic range. What i’m hearing in the demos is an amazing solo instrument, my instinct here would be to not get too excited about its usefulness in quartet writing. Though I’d be delighted to be proven wrong.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Sep 28, 2018)

X-Bassist said:


> But, just so people know, it may be a while before it’s on sale again (don’t think he usually does a bf sale)


Au contraire


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## jaketanner (Sep 28, 2018)

ism said:


> Are you saying the PS’s innovations are only at the level of playability, rather than than the legato?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think I am going to agree that perhaps they’re better suited as straight solo instruments. Just really wish they had a softer dynamic as well, but I might pick this up. Any idea if the con moto cello is of the same sapling technique? Or should I wait for the actual solo cello?


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## vosk (Sep 28, 2018)

Leo said:


> Nevertheless shame that such a nice instrument with great tone does not have one separate patch with pp...


I guess it will be in future.


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 28, 2018)

Those who have it. Do they employ a filter on the MW (to imitate dyn layers) - sometimes that is enough.


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## DeactivatedAcc (Sep 28, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> Any idea if the con moto cello is of the same sapling technique? Or should I wait for the actual solo cello?



Jake - it's similar but adapted for solo string sampling (with the timbral similarity approach I mentioned earlier in the thread) - there are the active-bow sustains as well. It plays similar to Con Moto. And the ~140 ms delay is consistent throughout Con Moto & Solos of the Sea (both current and upcoming releases in these series).



Rob Elliott said:


> Do they employ a filter on the MW (to imitate dyn layers) - sometimes that is enough.



I did throw some EQ/filtering on the MW, to roughly be in the vicinity of (timbrally and amplitude -wise) ppp/mp/f/etc references captured on a few different notes.


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## LamaRose (Sep 28, 2018)

Vibrato is such a make-or-break feature in solo strings, and I think PS hit a nice sweet spot with this instrument. I also like how they handled the sustains...


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 28, 2018)

Jasper Blunk said:


> Jake - it's similar but adapted for solo string sampling (with the timbral similarity approach I mentioned earlier in the thread) - there are the active-bow sustains as well. It plays similar to Con Moto. And the ~140 ms delay is consistent throughout Con Moto & Solos of the Sea (both current and upcoming releases in these series).
> 
> 
> 
> I did throw some EQ/filtering on the MW, to roughly be in the vicinity of (timbrally and amplitude -wise) ppp/mp/f/etc references captured on a few different notes.


Ok - just to be sure YOU automated eq and it is not part of the VI?


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## DeactivatedAcc (Sep 28, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> Ok - just to be sure YOU automated eq and it is not part of the VI?


It's not baked into the samples - it's kontakt EQ/filter controlled via MW - can be adjusted/turned off in the very last FX slots.


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 28, 2018)

Jasper Blunk said:


> It's not baked into the samples - it's kontakt EQ/filter controlled via MW - can be adjusted/turned off in the very last FX slots.


Ah - thanks Jasper. Can one have enough solo violins?


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## muziksculp (Sep 28, 2018)

How does this Performance Samples Solo Violin compare to the free Solo Violin by Performance Samples ?


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## sostenuto (Sep 28, 2018)

++* $99.

*
(_sorry … couldn't resist_)* *


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 29, 2018)

Did I read that there was a 'trial patch' to fuddle with? Nothing like being able to play it in our studios (even an octave would tell me what I want to know).


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## chapbot (Sep 29, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> Did I read that there was a 'trial patch' to fuddle with? Nothing like being able to play it in our studios (even an octave would tell me what I want to know).


There isn't a trial, but they have a free violin that's similar (maybe I read here somewhere it's the same violinist? Not sure about that) https://performancesamples.com/soloviolinlegato/


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## Rob Elliott (Sep 29, 2018)

chapbot said:


> There isn't a trial, but they have a free violin that's similar (maybe I read here somewhere it's the same violinist? Not sure about that) https://performancesamples.com/soloviolinlegato/


Thanks for that. I am not sure it will have the same 'responsiveness' that the commercial one has but for sure worth a try.


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## kavinsky (Sep 29, 2018)

vosk said:


> So, I think we have a great duet already  (paid + free violins together)
> 
> [AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/duet-mp3.15452/][/AUDIOPLUS]


what was that? sounded pretty nice


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## chapbot (Sep 29, 2018)

Rob Elliott said:


> Thanks for that. I am not sure it will have the same 'responsiveness' that the commercial one has but for sure worth a try.


No, it won't be as responsive but it is still good. There is that 140ms delay in the paid version with is noticeable but you get used to it because it's consistent. Watch the video below from an earlier post to get a real good idea of how it works. The video makes it appear like the violin has no latency but evidently that was a problem with the recording of it.



Vartio said:


> It's most likely quite alot more playable and flexible than you'd think... No keyswitches and barely any modwheel input. Maybe just a little bit since I can't hold my hands off from wiggling it just a bit all the time. The shorts are dependent on weather you play short notes or not and not any funky velocity triggers etc. Just play it and it'll do its thing. It's not really meant to do shorts but that's just a by product of how its sampled and the playability. It can do alot.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6y3wqmvkobdhdv9/little demo ditty.mp4?dl=0
> Edit: the webcam framerate is a bit wonky, so bear that in mind


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## MA-Simon (Sep 29, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> ++* $99.*


The Tina Guo legato patch is also 99$, just saying: https://cinesamples.com/product/tina-guo-acoustic-cello-legato
Price fits perfectly fine.


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## LamaRose (Sep 29, 2018)

MA-Simon said:


> The Tina Guo legato patch is also 99$, just saying: https://cinesamples.com/product/tina-guo-acoustic-cello-legato
> Price fits perfectly fine.



They're both overpriced. I love the Guo cello, but at least I scored that for $60 - $70. Look at Indiginus. Tracy produces great libraries usually under $50 at entry. The whole VST industry is losing money with far too much niche pricing.


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## damcry (Sep 30, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> How does this Performance Samples Solo Violin compare to the free Solo Violin by Performance Samples ?


Just bought Solo of the Sea.
Free Solo sounds much much more tight.

Sounds great and very pleasant to play solo or layer.


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## Leo (Sep 30, 2018)

damcry said:


> Just bought Solo of the Sea.
> Free Solo sounds much much more tight.
> 
> Sounds great and very pleasant to play solo or layer.


Please, can you make comparison with both violins?


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## jaketanner (Sep 30, 2018)

damcry said:


> Just bought Solo of the Sea.
> Free Solo sounds much much more tight.
> 
> Sounds great and very pleasant to play solo or layer.



What do you mean by tight? I have the free solo violin also, and the sound is great but it is a little bit limited in terms of playability. Is the paid version a lot better?


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## Sami (Sep 30, 2018)

Always found the Performance Samples products to be very expressive and nice sounding. Congratulations for the new product!


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## Eptesicus (Sep 30, 2018)

MA-Simon said:


> The Tina Guo legato patch is also 99$, just saying: https://cinesamples.com/product/tina-guo-acoustic-cello-legato
> Price fits perfectly fine.



This is $139 full price.

Which ever way you cut it, it is a lot of money for a solo violin with just legato/sustains in one dynamic layer and one mic position.

Admittedly, what it does, it does very well.

I do love the sound of this and con moto celli, but i think i will wait till all the instruments are out (and probably till their first proper sale!)


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## jules (Sep 30, 2018)

jaketanner said:


> What do you mean by tight? I have the free solo violin also, and the sound is great but it is a little bit limited in terms of playability. Is the paid version a lot better?


In solo of the sea violin, you feel the 140ms delay when you play on the keyboard, so the freebie seems more tight. But the playability justify the difference in cost, imo.


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## Oliver_Codd (Sep 30, 2018)

LamaRose said:


> They're both overpriced. I love the Guo cello, but at least I scored that for $60 - $70. Look at Indiginus. Tracy produces great libraries usually under $50 at entry. The whole VST industry is losing money with far too much niche pricing.



Overpriced??? It's frustrating to read comments like this. I'm not sure if it's coming from a place of ignorance or entitlement but if it's in fact true that "the whole VST industrty is losing money" it's because of people like you and other consumers who incessantly pressure developers to lower their prices. It pains me to see bigger developers who spend insane amounts of money (Sony costs around 10k a day fyi) and time on these projects undersell their work to satisfy a spoiled consumer base. It wasn't that long ago that orchestral libraries cost multiple thousands of dollars and now 99 bucks is considered too expensive?

I know for a fact that Jasper spends a mind boggling amount of time and effort to get his libraries to play and sound the way that they do and it's hard for me to watch people give him a hard time on the pricing (which I find to be quite reasonable). I wish everyone could partake in developing a sample library so that they could experience what a huge undertaking it is, often times for a fairly modest return. I'm sure it would change your perspective.

If people want better products, they should be willing to pay for them. Innovation, when it comes to sample development, is expensive, time consuming, and requires a great amount of skill, knowledge and artistry. On various threads where people discuss the future of sample libraries, I repeatedly see Performance Samples name come up as a positive influence on the industry. Don't bite the hand that feeds you!!


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## LamaRose (Sep 30, 2018)

Oliver_Codd said:


> Overpriced??? It's frustrating to read comments like this. I'm not sure if it's coming from a place of ignorance or entitlement but if it's in fact true that "the whole VST industrty is losing money"...



Entitlement? You need to step out of your safe space, junior. I've run businesses and managed projects that were probably bigger than this entire VST industry. I'm not giving Jasper or anyone else a hard time... actually trying to open some eyes/doors so that they can start making MORE MONEY. I want developers to succeed as success equals more great products. 

Everyone puts time, money, effort into creating a product, be it a toaster or virtual violin. The savvy ones, when they're ready to sale, develop a marketing strategy, including a price, to OPTIMIZE THE NUMBER OF SALES whilst trying to turn a profit.

The guy trying to sale his toasters has a lot hard cost variables to constantly weigh - material costs, labor, shipping, tariffs, etc. The girl selling the digital violin, once her product is ready, has none of these hard costs... she's basically selling information at this point.

So you have to ask yourself, and developers should definitely be asking themselves: how many more violins could I sell if I cut the price 30%? 40%? 50% The answer is a given - you will always sell more for less. And since VST developers are selling information, there are no hard costs to eat... it's all profit at this point.

So let's say the violin maker ends up selling 1000 libraries for $100. If I go to her as a businessman and say, "you should cut this cost in half." She's going to freak and respond, "that's a horrible idea because my profit would be cut in half!" True, but only if you only sell 1000 libraries.

I've been fooling with computer-based VST's for the past 13 years. I can assure you, Jasper is losing money at this price point. He's letting fear get in the way of common business sense. With this quality of product, he could easily quadruple his sales at $49, thus doubling his profits. And there's a bonus as well: his customers would love and applaud his work even more.

But don't believe me. Ask Henry Ford, who really got this idea rolling... or the hundreds of thousands of other companies who rely on this model to survive. Look at video games... do you have any clue how much money, hours, effort goes into developing one of these damn things? True, they have a much larger clientele than VST developers, but Jasper isn't looking to make 20 million on his violin.

For me personally, I refuse to buy boutique products... no Calvin Klein blue jeans in my house, lol... whether I can afford it or not. The VST biz is largely boutique... not entirely... and some niche products can only go so low because of demand. I've paid what I consider premium prices for a handful of libraries... but I usually pass on a lot of stuff out of stubbornness... or maybe it's annoyance.


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## ism (Sep 30, 2018)

Well it’s probably more complex than that for an instrument of this complexity. Marginal costs aren’t going to be completely zero -support costs for software can really kill you, for instance, so the toaster metaphor may or many not extend that far. There’s also counter intuitive notions of perceived value and so on.

That said at $49 It would be a *completely* instant purchase. Still agonizing at $99 though. I keep listening to the demos, and thinking that there’s something really great here. Great enough to that I need in alongside the also great JB and spitfire violins though ... ? What I really need is a week to work with it alongside these other instruments, but well they don’t give you a free trial week with toasters either.

One thing I don’t think is in question thought is that the boutique model is delivering some superb innovation - embertone, PS, fluffy, Vir.. can’t really complain about that.

Here’s hoping Jasper gets rich and continues to innovate.


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## Vartio (Sep 30, 2018)

LamaRose said:


> Entitlement? You need to step out of your safe space, junior. I've run businesses and managed projects that were probably bigger than this entire VST industry.


Wow we got a bona fide businessman here.
You know whats a good business? Selling the same crap over and over again. Flavor of the month, add a new GUI, push it out, and be done. I'm pretty sure the market will suck it right up if it's priced right.

Doing hard R&D and spending years on test recordings and blowing your savings on stuff that no one will ever hear because you tried something new and it didn't quite work out over and over again, and building everything by hand by your self because no one else can provide the standard of editing and attention to detail that it takes to get stuff playing this well with this kind of consistency...
It's not really a good business model, but he'll do it because that gives us all better tools in the end. And you're saying that should be sold for under 50usd?
I'm sorry, Sonny, but I think you're missing the whole point. This stuff isn't about the race to the bottom. This is about making good tools that'll give people the run for their money and moving the industry forward so we can actually see some innovation. And that's hard and that's expensive. And obviously if you don't have any respect for that you're not part of the target audience.


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## ism (Sep 30, 2018)

Ok, there are some bonifide points here vis-a-vis innovation and such, coming from genuinely diverse perspectives. How About we focus of the interesting, substantive elements and have a useful discussion, and tone down the personal animosity before the mods need to step in?


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## Eptesicus (Sep 30, 2018)

LamaRose said:


> Entitlement? You need to step out of your safe space, junior. I've run businesses and managed projects that were probably bigger than this entire VST industry. I'm not giving Jasper or anyone else a hard time... actually trying to open some eyes/doors so that they can start making MORE MONEY. I want developers to succeed as success equals more great products.
> 
> Everyone puts time, money, effort into creating a product, be it a toaster or virtual violin. The savvy ones, when they're ready to sale, develop a marketing strategy, including a price, to OPTIMIZE THE NUMBER OF SALES whilst trying to turn a profit.
> 
> ...



Totally agree. 

I would have bought Con Moto Cellos and this violin if they were more reasonably priced.

If that is the price that the developer thinks they are worth then that is fair enough, but as you say, if i was a developer i would rather not lose sales overpricing things, seen as each further download costs nothing in terms of costs.


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## Eptesicus (Sep 30, 2018)

Vartio said:


> Wow we got a bona fide businessman here.
> You know whats a good business? Selling the same crap over and over again. Flavor of the month, add a new GUI, push it out, and be done. I'm pretty sure the market will suck it right up if it's priced right.
> 
> Doing hard R&D and spending years on test recordings and blowing your savings on stuff that no one will ever hear because you tried something new and it didn't quite work out over and over again, and building everything by hand by your self because no one else can provide the standard of editing and attention to detail that it takes to get stuff playing this well with this kind of consistency...
> ...



This still makes no sense. Once the product is made, further sales cost nothing. This isnt a car or a mobile phone that has part and manufacturing costs.

Surely it is better to have your VST in the hands of triple the amount of people, at the half the price, making you more money and getting more exposure as a result. 

I am all for innovation and i do respect how good the legato is in this library, but that still doesn't stop me thinking $139 is quite steep for a one trick pony VST. What it does, it does very well but with one dynamic layer, one type of transition ( ie no true portamento etc) and one mic position, its potential versatility is limited.


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## Casiquire (Sep 30, 2018)

Eptesicus said:


> This still makes no sense. Once the product is made, further sales cost nothing. This isnt a car or a mobile phone that has part and manufacturing costs.
> 
> Surely it is better to have your VST in the hands of triple the amount of people, at the half the price, making you more money and getting more exposure as a result.
> 
> I am all for innovation and i do respect how good the legato is in this library, but that still doesn't stop me thinking $139 is quite steep for a one trick pony VST. What it does, it does very well but with one dynamic layer, one type of transition ( ie no true portamento etc) and one mic position, its potential versatility is limited.



Support needs to continue well past the point of the sale. This is simple business: if he sells one unit at 99, but would sell four units at 50, such as the example given above, then yay, his profit doubled! Oh, but his support costs_ quadrupled, _didn't they. And his file hosting, watermarking, and downloading quadrupled. If this is a small business without many workers to share that load, it may well be a better business move to price out part of the market and have more time to develop further projects.


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## ism (Sep 30, 2018)

The philosophical conflation here between several concepts of value and price.

There’s market or exchange value - which involves the price point, what people will pay, and what a seller will sell for, in a competitive market.

There the intrinsic value of Labour going into make it the library - and it’s important to recognize the value of Jasper’s Labour and ideas. But this has - in economic theory - nothing to do with market value.

Then there’s use value - how much value do we get out of the lib. Which has nothing to do with the exchange value because whether you pay it’s $49 or $99 doesn’t alter the value you get from the library. 

And the there there’s value in the sense that how can you ever really put a dollar value of a really good legato.


Lots of Marxist and Capitalist philosophical perspective to be debated around how we ‘value’ each meaning of value.

But it seems to me the (wholly unnecessary) conflict that’s threatening here comes from an honest slippage of what kind of value is being considered in a given sentence.


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## ism (Sep 30, 2018)

Unless of course if there’s a way to convince Jasper to sell this for $49 - purely in the interest of ensuring that he makes as much money as possible of course - I’m all for that argument.

(Probably the pricing model and market segmentation and marginal cost analysis and competitive analysis and a million other things that Jasper has probably already worked into his business model is not going to be something that we can realistically discuss here in an especially helpfully way)


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## Oliver_Codd (Sep 30, 2018)

LamaRose said:


> Entitlement? You need to step out of your safe space, junior. I've run businesses and managed projects that were probably bigger than this entire VST industry. I'm not giving Jasper or anyone else a hard time... actually trying to open some eyes/doors so that they can start making MORE MONEY. I want developers to succeed as success equals more great products.
> 
> Everyone puts time, money, effort into creating a product, be it a toaster or virtual violin. The savvy ones, when they're ready to sale, develop a marketing strategy, including a price, to OPTIMIZE THE NUMBER OF SALES whilst trying to turn a profit.
> 
> ...



I'd gladly discuss this with you in person if I could. In fact you seem like the kinda guy I'd enjoy talking business with over a coffee or beer. I have no doubt that you're a great businessman, but have you sold sample libraries? The market, especially orchestral VIs, is very small (particularly for a new company in such a saturated market). The point you made regarding cutting the cost in half resulting in 4 times the sales is not accurate at all. It's much much more complex than that. There's a good chance that Jasper could sell the library for $50 and only sell 25% more copies which would result in less profit. There's always a sweet spot, and lower isn't always better. The problem I have is that the value of sample libraries is largely based on consumer perception. 5 years ago $100 bucks would be an absolute no brainer. 5 years from now, if we continue down this path to the bottom, 50 bucks might be considered to be too expensive. It's a slippery slope. When people like you and Eptesicus come in and complain about already reasonable prices, it has a negative effect on the consumer's perception. Sadly, a few developers have decided to undercut the entire industry which has supported this narrative. Luckily there are still a handful of people who see the value in Jasper's products and feel that they can justify slightly higher prices for a better product. If you truly want Jasper to succeed so that he can develop awesome new stuff, you would want to push the market back up to where it was, or at the very least not push it further down. If you don't want to buy boutique products, don't buy them, but please don't complain about the prices just because you don't want to fork out the extra cash.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Sep 30, 2018)

2 cents on high prices - because this thread really needs to be derailed further... 

One argument FOR higher prices on the buyers end could be higher exclusivity. The lower the price of a high quality product the more people are gonna use it. And then you're gonna have a lot of music using the same samples and I at least don't like to use sounds I hear everywhere else...

If I'm able to get a product with a higher price tag (on sale for instance) it kinda gives me a nice fuzzy feeling that not so many other people are gonna use the same sounds in their tracks. 

Maybe the sample price discussion should be sliced into a new thread.


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## LamaRose (Sep 30, 2018)

Vartio said:


> Wow we got a bona fide businessman here.
> You know whats a good business? Selling the same crap over and over again. Flavor of the month, add a new GUI, push it out, and be done. I'm pretty sure the market will suck it right up if it's priced right.
> 
> Doing hard R&D and spending years on test recordings and blowing your savings on stuff that no one will ever hear because you tried something new and it didn't quite work out over and over again, and building everything by hand by your self because no one else can provide the standard of editing and attention to detail that it takes to get stuff playing this well with this kind of consistency...
> ...



Don't take it so personally, you're just showing off the fallacy of your reasoning. Again, see Indiginus. Incredible products, smart business.


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## Eptesicus (Sep 30, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> Support needs to continue well past the point of the sale. This is simple business: if he sells one unit at 99, but would sell four units at 50, such as the example given above, then yay, his profit doubled! Oh, but his support costs_ quadrupled, _didn't they. And his file hosting, watermarking, and downloading quadrupled. If this is a small business without many workers to share that load, it may well be a better business move to price out part of the market and have more time to develop further projects.



Support....for sample libraries....?

Don't make me laugh.

The amount of promised fixes I've had from developers for issues in libraries is huge, and not one has ever been fixed or followed up as far as I can remember.

.

Also, have you read the FAQ at Performance Samples?

*FAQs*


*Do you offer customer support?*
As per the EULA, Performance Samples is not obligated to provide you with any support in connection with the Samples.


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## Vartio (Sep 30, 2018)

LamaRose said:


> Don't take it so personally, you're just showing off the fallacy of your reasoning. Again, see Indiginus. Incredible products, smart business.


I looked at them and what they're doing is cool, but it's technically not pushing any boundaries. It's the same tech that's been around for I don't know like 20 years, this methodology of sampling has been out since akai and emu samplers. The technical variables of producing something like that are very much much different than what goes into doing a solo violin like PS is doing. So your comparison doesn't really make any sense.


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## LamaRose (Sep 30, 2018)

Oliver_Codd said:


> I'd gladly discuss this with you in person if I could. In fact you seem like the kinda guy I'd enjoy talking business with over a coffee or beer. I have no doubt that you're a great businessman, but have you sold sample libraries? The market, especially orchestral VIs, is very small (particularly for a new company in such a saturated market). The point you made regarding cutting the cost in half resulting in 4 times the sales is not accurate at all. It's much much more complex than that. There's a good chance that Jasper could sell the library for $50 and only sell 25% more copies which would result in less profit. There's always a sweet spot, and lower isn't always better. The problem I have is that the value of sample libraries is largely based on consumer perception. 5 years ago $100 bucks would be an absolute no brainer. 5 years from now, if we continue down this path to the bottom, 50 bucks might be considered to be too expensive. It's a slippery slope. When people like you and Eptesicus come in and complain about already reasonable prices, it has a negative effect on the consumer's perception. Sadly, a few developers have decided to undercut the entire industry which has supported this narrative. Luckily there are still a handful of people who see the value in Jasper's products and feel that they can justify slightly higher prices for a better product. If you truly want Jasper to succeed so that he can develop awesome new stuff, you would want to push the market back up to where it was, or at the very least not push it further down. If you don't want to buy boutique products, don't buy them, but please don't complain about the prices just because you don't want to fork out the extra cash.



I'm game. I wouldn't call myself a great businessman, I'm just pointing out a business model that works at virtually any level of consumer base. If I had a VST to sell, I'd be utilizing VI-C, KVRaudio, etc for marketing to gauge interest and set a happy price point. I did make one error in my post: I used $50 instead of $49, lol... and yes, that one dollar does make a difference, my friend.


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## LamaRose (Sep 30, 2018)

Vartio said:


> I looked at them and what they're doing is cool, but it's technically not pushing any boundaries. It's the same tech that's been around for I don't know like 20 years, this methodology of sampling has been out since akai and emu samplers. The technical variables of producing something like that are very much much different than what goes into doing a solo violin like PS is doing. So your comparison doesn't really make any sense.



BS. Maybe you need to step outside your safe space as well. For example: Renegade Electric Guitar. You're dribbling now.


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## Vartio (Sep 30, 2018)

LamaRose said:


> BS. Maybe you need to step outside your safe space as well. For example: Renegade Electric Guitar. You're dribbling now.


Dude you can say what you want but KS and Vel switching to tie together arts and having those separated fixed blocks that you work with have been around forever.

If you can point out a instrument there (or better yet any of the competition) that is a non transient based instrument and that has the level of playability and consistency and a level of expression without relying on KS or vel switching or similar old school control schemes and is also sold at the price point you're suggesting, go ahead I'll wait you to prove me wrong. I'd really love you to.

EDIT: This post is not to mean that these kinds of split out methods are not valid and good tried and tested ways of doing samples and definitely you can get a lot of mileage out of them even today. It's just to point out that the underlying tech and approach to how you build them is overall very different.


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## Strezov (Sep 30, 2018)

Just wanted to let you guys know that I was having a hard time pushing a feature for the producer and director --- had a meeting on Friday... they wanted a cheesy old quasi-romantic music and I had troubles with the mock-up - time vs. efficiency. Jasper was kind enough to send me a copy of the violin - which somehow worked miracles on my crappy writing chops - suffice to say I'm moving forward with the next reel, producer is happy and I'm not worried about putting food on the table this month 

That's worth $99 imo (even more)... if it helps me think only about the music and not parameters/switches... and the client is happy... just wanted to share my $($100-$99.98)...


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## NoamL (Sep 30, 2018)

it sounds terrific @Jasper Blunk , definitely up there with the Virharmonic series & Robo-Guo! 

Regarding price -

People always compare the price of libraries to other libraries, which is semi-fair, but what they should be doing is comparing the price of a library to the price of a recording session.

Let me explain why that makes a difference.

In my opinion, it's almost impossible for any orchestral library to be 'overpriced', because it is substituting for a recording session that would certainly run into the 10s of thousands of dollars for _one score_. Libraries of solo instruments are a different beast because they are substituting for a much cheaper concept - a recording session with just one musician, and in some cases (guitar etc) you could do a successful bedroom production instead of needing to hire a very expensive hall, expensive mics and an expensive engineer. Additionally, it seems that composers these days write for solo instruments less. Also the "articulation gaps" problem is unavoidable with these instruments's exposed solos, so that _most_ string solo instruments don't even come _close_ to sounding real, unfortunately. IMO wind and brass solo instruments are also generally lacking except the Sample Modeling lineup, although perhaps a wind/brass player should speak to that.

Anyway this is why as an ex string player I've always cautioned people here to keep in mind that remote players are available, affordable, and more than competitive with most of the solo instrument products out there. To be frank, they beat the pants off them.

However if you only need your solo to "do one thing" then the Virharmonic series, the Tina Guo Cello, and now this new violin from Jasper, are definitely high quality and convincing.

Whether you buy them or not depends on how much you're asked to (or are inspired to) use string solos, not the price compared to some other string library IMO.

If it's helpful, try not to think of this solo library as expensive, but rather that most ensemble string libraries are _ridiiiiiiiiculously _cheap. Just look at another one of Jasper's libraries for instance, Fluid Shorts. These are the same musicians and same hall that 2 Steps From Hell uses from time to time. And you can have that sound for eighty bucks. That is NUTS.


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## NoamL (Sep 30, 2018)

Another example of this principle is the recent "90s Retro Trumpets" library from Cinebrass. You can think of it as slightly expensive compared to other recent brass libraries. Or you can think of it as the Mikes and Tim Starnes did a whole research project (including pulling up the original scores and call sheets) to figure out the exact brass setup of a brilliant film score, including the instruments and mics used, then replicated the analog signal chain at considerable expense, and hired probably THE most important (surviving) film scoring room from the second golden age of scoring (RIP, Todd-AO).


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## quantum7 (Sep 30, 2018)

I want the prices to go up significantly so that all the young financially insolvent whippersnappers can no longer afford anything......then me and my fellow older 40 to 50 somethings with more established finances will no longer have competition from the spoiled Millennials that rob us of the precious few music jobs that are still available. Hell yeah!!!!


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## jaketanner (Sep 30, 2018)

I know the sound alone should be enough to make the purchase, but why are there no walkthrough videos up already so that anyone with any doubts, can decide? Seems so odd to me that there isn't more to show off this library...I mean with someone physically talking through it. Or...is it that simple that it doesn't need a walkthrough? Anyway...3 days is too short of a time frame to jump on the sale without seeing more...the sound is great, but I am not dying for a solo violin just yet. Maybe Black Friday


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## NYC Composer (Sep 30, 2018)

Too expensive? Don’t buy it.

Life is surprisingly simple in some respects.


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## sostenuto (Sep 30, 2018)

Not 'too expensive'. To each his/her own .... 
Embertone _ Joshua Bell Violin is only another $100. 

Yes ... surprisingly 'simple' choices.


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## jaketanner (Sep 30, 2018)

Here is my take..and the only thing I am comparing it to, is the competition. I have Cinesamples Solo strings. It's a $400 library...so each instrument (although you technically get 2 violins), is $100 if you break it down...BUT...you get a lot more articulations and dynamic layers and mic positions, and sounds great, recorded at a major location by one of the best engineers, however, the legato is okay..wish it had fingered as well, but it's playable...but not perfect...and then take the Tina Guo Legato only patch that is $99...BUT, I do believe here you are paying for the name, because Tina played the samples and we are buying HER feel of legato and vibrato...so there is some additional value there. But having said that...and having used the free version of PF's violin, the sound is amazing...but is it $140 amazing, or $99 amazing? I think the value is only relevant to the buyer's needs. If I need it, then it should pay for itself...if I "want" to buy it just to have, then the price becomes more relevant.


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## Leo (Sep 30, 2018)

hmm to the topic of price. 8dio have whole solo ens for 188$, with intro 1 month.
And user demo especially Rottoy sounds very promising. https://vi-control.net/community/threads/8dio-intimate-studio-strings.72350/page-10
there is always a way....


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## Vartio (Sep 30, 2018)

Leo said:


> hmm to the topic of price. 8dio have whole solo ens for 188$, with intro 1 month.
> And user demo especially Rottoy sounds very promising. https://vi-control.net/community/threads/8dio-intimate-studio-strings.72350/page-10
> there is always a way....


You also have a whole thread of people complaining about shoddy legato transitions, dodgy programming etc. etc. ad nauseam...
a bit different from just a on point legato that you frankly don't have to do much any tweaking to to make it sound good. Like seriously you could have a chimpanzee slamming the keyboard and it would probably sound like music on the PS violin xD


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## JEPA (Sep 30, 2018)

very nice move:
"*NOTE ON DELAY: this library has a moderately delayed response (140 ms) when playing, to further the musicality of the legatos.* The library is heavily optimized for this delay amount. *All the elements of the library (legatos, sustains, attacks, releases, etc) are on the same delay*, which allow you to play in your parts, quantize them, set the track delay to -140 ms and have everything be on the beat."


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## Montisquirrel (Oct 1, 2018)

Sounds beautiful. If I get a gig and need an easy to play solo violin I will get this for sure (I only got the 8Dio Adagio Solo Violin in my arsenal so far). I don't care if it will be 99€ or 139€, it will pay itself anyway. 

I'm so thankful that Jasper and all the other developers give me these instruments. I have no idea what else I should do...


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## procreative (Oct 1, 2018)

Strezov said:


> Just wanted to let you guys know that I was having a hard time pushing a feature for the producer and director --- had a meeting on Friday... they wanted a cheesy old quasi-romantic music and I had troubles with the mock-up - time vs. efficiency. Jasper was kind enough to send me a copy of the violin - which somehow worked miracles on my crappy writing chops - suffice to say I'm moving forward with the next reel, producer is happy and I'm not worried about putting food on the table this month
> 
> That's worth $99 imo (even more)... if it helps me think only about the music and not parameters/switches... and the client is happy... just wanted to share my $($100-$99.98)...



What and Macabre Solo Strings didn't fit the bill?!? ...


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## Strezov (Oct 1, 2018)

They are way too dark (film is a cheesy romance)


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## Thorsten Meyer (Oct 1, 2018)

Solos of the Sea is extremely playable, just experience it yourself if you can make the investment


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## Leo (Oct 1, 2018)

if is so good, please someone make proper walkthrough. Maybe @Vartio is full of enthusiasm, or his chimpanse:
_you could have a chimpanzee slamming the keyboard and it would probably sound like music _


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## Casiquire (Oct 1, 2018)

Eptesicus said:


> Support....for sample libraries....?
> 
> Don't make me laugh.
> 
> ...



I pointed out three other costs. As far as support I've never purchased a library that didn't actually offer it on some level, regardless of their covering of legal bases in their EULA, and I've seen reputations fall as a result from developers who weren't able to meet that demand. And I've had several libraries that have received sometimes significant updates and improvements, and I don't even have many libraries. This just seems like a very strange, anecdotal, and intentionally omissive reply.


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## ism (Oct 1, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> I pointed out three other costs. As far as support I've never purchased a library that didn't actually offer it on some level, regardless of their covering of legal bases in their EULA, and I've seen reputations fall as a result from developers who weren't able to meet that demand. And I've had several libraries that have received sometimes significant updates and improvements, and I don't even have many libraries. This just seems like a very strange, anecdotal, and intentionally omissive reply.



I bet we’d all be shocked at just how much it costs a small developer even just to constantly email customers explaining things like what Kontakt is, and how the free version won’t work with this library sure it says so right on the web page, and “have you tried turning your computer off and on?”


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## Casiquire (Oct 1, 2018)

ism said:


> I bet we’d all be shocked at just how much it costs a small developer even just to constantly email customers explaining things like what Kontakt is, and how the free version won’t work with this library sure it says so right on the web page, and “have you tried turning your computer off and on?”



Absolutely, I don't doubt it.


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## zeng (Oct 1, 2018)

Anyone can make a comparison between this one & Virharmonic Violin?


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## Sid Francis (Oct 1, 2018)

ism said:


> I bet we’d all be shocked at just how much it costs a small developer even just to constantly email customers explaining things like what Kontakt is, and how the free version won’t work with this library sure it says so right on the web page, and “have you tried turning your computer off and on?”


I am working on the hotline of a very big music store and regularily have customers on the phone who ask how much it costs to tune their guitar... so yes, support is a cost factor :-(


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## fiestared (Oct 2, 2018)

Sid Francis said:


> I am working on the hotline of a very big music store and regularily have customers on the phone who ask how much it costs to tune their guitar... so yes, support is a cost factor :-(


Should we laugh or cry ?


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## Eptesicus (Oct 2, 2018)

Casiquire said:


> I pointed out three other costs. As far as support I've never purchased a library that didn't actually offer it on some level, regardless of their covering of legal bases in their EULA, and I've seen reputations fall as a result from developers who weren't able to meet that demand. And I've had several libraries that have received sometimes significant updates and improvements, and I don't even have many libraries. This just seems like a very strange, anecdotal, and intentionally omissive reply.



It wasn't. I just think the other things you listed aren't that significant in comparison to making many more sales.

I agree that support costs could no doubt be expensive, but PS do specifically say that they have no obligation to give you any.


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## Gerbil (Oct 2, 2018)

Sounds great and I'll bet it's ace to use like his other instruments.

I never get why people bleat on about things being overpriced. Vote with your wallets; You don't have to say anything. If sales are poor then anybody with business sense will adjust the price accordingly. If sales are healthy then suck up your tears and pay the full price.


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## Lionel Schmitt (Oct 2, 2018)

Pre-Alpha sneak peak for Violin B.


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## pipedr (Oct 2, 2018)

I wonder, are these violins similar in concept to Orchestra Tools' Nocturne Violin? Also single velocity layer. That one says that there were 14 legatos sampled. Somehow, it chooses which notes to play.

Does one use expression control with a single velocity layer instrument?


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## jules (Oct 2, 2018)

DarkestShadow said:


> Pre-Alpha sneak peak for Violin B.



Jeez... it's almost better than violin A !


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## reutunes (Oct 2, 2018)

Don did a thing...

Worth noting that on the Performance Samples website it is explained that the 140ms pre-delay setting should be applied to QUANTIZED MIDI NOTES - This is why the metronome sounds way off in Don's examples as he didn't quantize the notes as far as I can see.


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## axb312 (Oct 2, 2018)

I am glad there are some rational people on here who agree this is way overpriced, even at 99 USD...


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## Land of Missing Parts (Oct 2, 2018)

reutunes said:


> Don did a thing...
> 
> Worth noting that on the Performance Samples website it is explained that the 140ms pre-delay setting should be applied to QUANTIZED MIDI NOTES - This is why the metronome sounds way off in Don's examples as he didn't quantize the notes as far as I can see.



For those who wanted a comparison of Solos of the Sea A vs the PF free solo violin:


I hope Don doesn't mind, but since he was kind enough to show his recording session in Logic, I just reproduced that with the free violin. I applied a bit of compression to get the volume up, but did no other processing.

The free violin is a lot harsher. My CC1 levels are considerably lower than Don's, mostly peaking around 60, and you can still hear so much more harshness. Don goes up an octave on his last note, which is D6. The free version doesn't go above C6, so I instead went down an octave.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Oct 2, 2018)

I’ve downloaded the free violin and realized that the vibrato is very constant and always the same amount of expression. Can the speed or amount of vibrato be controlled with the paid violin?


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## Drundfunk (Oct 2, 2018)

Not really interested in a solo violin library right now, but just wanted to say one thing about the price discussion. I think the price discussion is something brought on by the developers themselves. Can't say how many times I purchased a library just to see it heavily discounted later. And usually not one time a year (Black Friday or Christmas), but rather every other week. At least it feels like that. I made a list of libraries at the beginning of the year I wanted to purchase this years Black Friday. I pretty much bought everything already, since there was one heavy discount after another. Just seeing that I pretty much made the choice to never buy a library for full price (exception: I really need it for a project and can't live without it). I'd gladly see constant prices on libraries, because that would mean I actually know when I purchase a library it is not discounted 40%, 50%, 60%, 70% a few weeks later, leaving a sour feeling in my mouth. However, that doesn't mean that some libraries aren't overpriced. 8Dio is a good candidate for that.
Anyway, library sounds great and seems to have a lot of playability.


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## kavinsky (Oct 2, 2018)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Can the speed or amount of vibrato be controlled with the paid violin?


of course not, its "not for purists" after all
Did you see the UI? nothing can be controlled and its the best thing about their products


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## jules (Oct 2, 2018)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> I’ve downloaded the free violin and realized that the vibrato is very constant and always the same amount of expression. Can the speed or amount of vibrato be controlled with the paid violin?


No, but it's very natural sounding and not as present as in the freebie (which is really great for a freebie, imo).


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## jules (Oct 2, 2018)

kavinsky said:


> Did you see the UI? nothing can be controlled and its the best thing about their products


Lol. That's true : you won't spend hours massaging your ccs and tweaking the gui. Very hit or miss.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Oct 2, 2018)

kavinsky said:


> of course not, its "not for purists" after all
> Did you see the UI? nothing can be controlled and its the best thing about their products


Thanks for the reply


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