# Breath controller, lemur and controller keyboard = MIDI congestion



## EmmCeeSq (Mar 8, 2019)

Hi all, I'm not sure this is the correct forum - MODS please feel free to move if there's a better place.

I'm building myself a new template, and am utilising a combination of composer tools pro on the ipad, a breath controller and my controller keyboard. Really great for getting lots of automation down in one pass (I prefer to do this rather than editing controller data after recording).

However, in Cubase I'm getting a lot of stuck notes, missing notes etc. I'm guessing the problem is the volume of MIDI data that's coming into Cubase from three different sources simultaneously. Anyone working with a similar workflow, who's run into the same problem? Any ideas (other than 'stop using so many controllers')?

Thanks all

Mike


----------



## Matt Riley (Mar 8, 2019)

EmmCeeSq said:


> Hi all, I'm not sure this is the correct forum - MODS please feel free to move if there's a better place.
> 
> I'm building myself a new template, and am utilising a combination of composer tools pro on the ipad, a breath controller and my controller keyboard. Really great for getting lots of automation down in one pass (I prefer to do this rather than editing controller data after recording).
> 
> ...


I am using Kawai MP 11, Akai MPD 226, and an iPad with metagrid. I am experiencing similar problems with Logic X.


----------



## EmmCeeSq (Mar 8, 2019)

Matt Riley said:


> I am using Kawai MP 11, Akai MPD 226, and an iPad with metagrid. I am experiencing similar problems with Logic X.


Thanks Matt, good to know (in a way) firstly that it's not just me, and secondly that it's cross platform. Annoying though, if anyone has any ideas for how to avoid it, that would be great!


----------



## pmcrockett (Mar 8, 2019)

Dunno if the problem is with the DAW or with whatever software you're using to route the MIDI into the DAW, but it definitely sounds like something's throttling the bandwidth. I've encountered this problem on Windows when using LoopBe as my software MIDI router, because LoopBe detects feedback loops in the MIDI data by assuming that any amount of data above a certain bandwidth threshold represents feedback. In LoopBe, at least, this feedback protection can be disabled, which removes the bandwidth cap.

Regarding Lemur specifically: Lemur has a cap on the amount of MIDI data that can be sent in a single frame, but Lemur itself won't tell you if it's dropping data. I assume Composer Tools Pro either doesn't send enough data to hit the cap or is set up to work around it, but I've never used it so I don't know for sure.

I may be wrong on this because I don't have reference material in front of me, but I think the MIDI spec lists an actual bandwidth that handware/software is supposed to support (I think that's where LoopBe gets its feedback threshold from), so it may be that something in your signal chain is auto-capping to the MIDI spec.


----------



## EmmCeeSq (Mar 9, 2019)

pmcrockett said:


> Dunno if the problem is with the DAW or with whatever software you're using to route the MIDI into the DAW, but it definitely sounds like something's throttling the bandwidth. I've encountered this problem on Windows when using LoopBe as my software MIDI router, because LoopBe detects feedback loops in the MIDI data by assuming that any amount of data above a certain bandwidth threshold represents feedback. In LoopBe, at least, this feedback protection can be disabled, which removes the bandwidth cap.
> 
> Regarding Lemur specifically: Lemur has a cap on the amount of MIDI data that can be sent in a single frame, but Lemur itself won't tell you if it's dropping data. I assume Composer Tools Pro either doesn't send enough data to hit the cap or is set up to work around it, but I've never used it so I don't know for sure.
> 
> I may be wrong on this because I don't have reference material in front of me, but I think the MIDI spec lists an actual bandwidth that handware/software is supposed to support (I think that's where LoopBe gets its feedback threshold from), so it may be that something in your signal chain is auto-capping to the MIDI spec.


Thanks so much for this! I am using LoopBe (it's essential for using Composers Tools pro on PC), so I'll try disabling the feedback protection as a starting point.


----------



## igbro (Mar 10, 2019)

Hi Mike, I also experienced this with Cubase.

Do not select All Midi Inputs for your track, Cubase is not good at merging several Midi streams.

Even with two sources (and no LoopBe), I had midi data loss or midi data not arriving in the right order.
In old Cubase versions, we had an option to deactivate Running Status which helped a lot.

My workaround I found is to create one Midi "Controller" track per extra Midi Controller, set their input respectively to the midi devices: TEC, MK Connect (loopBe), set their output to the VI you want to record, record those tracks with the VI one and afterwards, drag/merge Midi parts manually from those controller tracks to the VI track.

When willing to record another track, you will at first have to manually redirect the controller tracks output to your next VI.

Those two extra controller midi tracks could remain permanently in your template.

It's a workflow killer, but it works. Hope it helps.

Igor.


----------



## EmmCeeSq (Mar 10, 2019)

Thanks for this Igor, most helpful. Crikey that does sound like a workflow killer indeed. I wonder whether creating a macro of some kind to automate this might speed things up. I’ll put my thinking cap on.

I do wish Steinberg would pay more attention to fixing issues like this, but I appreciate that ‘we fixed multiple MIDI input’ won’t shift as many products as ‘look at this new shiny thing that will make your beatz sound phatter’. Ho hum...


----------



## rdieters (Apr 6, 2019)

It's a Cubase bug that can't handle multiple controllers very well. Steinberg never really fixed it but there are some workarounds. See this thread

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/tecontrol-breath-controller-and-cubase-hanging-notes.65667/


----------



## Saxer (Apr 7, 2019)

I use different Midi controllers in Logic all the time. The only problem I have are some randomly appearing Midi events from controllers I didn't control by choice (probably from moving them indirectly by banging on the keyboard). I have a faderbox (8 faders), a TEControl breath controller, a WX7 windcontroller, a Novation Peak, a MS-20iC, a Roland SE-02 (last three to control Omnisphere) and a keyboard with some joysticks. And there are three Logic controls. At least the TEC and the faderbox are in permanent use simultaneously. No problems with merging them.
I have different Midi ports or separate USB connections for each device.


----------

