# The Best DAW for Bettering Jazz & Orchestral Sound



## Starkman

Greetings all,

Wow! What a forum this is. Amazing!

For personal pleasure, I compose jazz and orchestral pieces using Musescore notation software (good for notation, not so good for sound). If I had the money, I'd probably use Sibelius as well. I knew there would come a time when I would have to use a DAW, but I'm completely new to DAWs and a bit intimidated by it all. Mind you, all I want to do is better the sound and realism of my comps. I won't be doing much of anything else other than this with any DAW I choose.

So I've been studying my behind off for about two weeks now to learn about DAWs in general and to decide which will be best for me. As it stands, I'm attracted to Cakewalk and Reaper. Cakewalk concerns me, though, because it's newly acquired and who knows what that will mean with regard to support down the road. Reaper, on the other hand, is well established with great community support, and there's a ton of videos available. So from this perspective it wins out, at the moment.

With regard to usage, I get the impression they are both a decent learning curve, but I'm still unsure which will be more suited for my needs.

Finally, I know of several other DAWs out there as well, which makes this task more daunting, so if you have any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate any input.

Thanks much.


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## dflood

This VI-C poll indicates some preferences of the users on this forum:

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/poll-your-preferred-daw-program-for-work-with-orchestral-libraries.43016/page-1#post-4200208

The DAWs you mentioned, and several others are all more than adequate for orchestration. Everyone has their favourites. I don’t use Reaper but it is quite highly regarded on this forum. And yes, they all have a significant learning curve.


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## Starkman

Thanks, dflood. I'm looking, though, for something a bit more substantial in regard to jazz and orchestral tweaking; specifically for this purpose, which DAWs tend to facilitate this task: user's pros and cons would be helpful. But thanks again.

UPDATE: Okay, the link goes to the last page, but I realize the poll is the entire thread. I'll check the whole thing out, dflood. Thanks again.


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## Maxfabian

Starkman said:


> I would greatly appreciate any input.



Hi,

I don't think it matters which DAW you pick. Daw`s are like individuell instruments that you have to learn. I personally use Logic and I like it. It is quite simple. I have worked with Cubase as well and that also worked great. I think though that if you are in to Jazz and orchestral... like my self. I think that Logic and Cubase are the most common ones but I might be wrong. I would have picked one of them. Here is some tracks I made with Logic X 

Good luck! I wish you all the best


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## Saxer

Try Reaper if you are on PC. It's free to try without restriction. It has a note editor which helps at least me a lot (I'm using Logic on Mac which has a good note editor too). Reaper comes with very few (if any?) software instruments. If you are on a budget look for free VSTs. There's a lot of good stuff out there. Your sound will depend on these software instruments except everything recorded by microphone (which needs investment of mic, interface etc).
The functionality of all DAWs is 80% the same but with different workflows. The DAW is like a new instrument: after a while you play (with) it. Choose one and make the best out of it.

*Edit* Haha Maxfabian had the same thoughts at the same time


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## robgb

Any of the major DAWs will be fine, and some of the minor ones as well. I always, of course, recommend Reaper (after using many different DAWs), but that has everything to do with customizability and workflow and cost, rather than sound. No DAW sounds better or different than another. I don't care who tells you there's a difference. There isn't. The only exception I can think of is Harrison Mixbus, which has analog warmth built-in to each track, but that can easily be simulated with the right plugins.


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## Starkman

Maxfabian said:


> I think though that if you are in to Jazz and orchestral... like my self. I think that Logic and Cubase are the most common ones



First, nice work. Very good sound!

Unfortunately, price is a huge deciding factor, at least for the time being. I can put out the (current) $60.00 for Reaper, but anything higher is out of my game right now. I think, though, when time permits, I'll do some serious research into Logic and Cubase, just to familiarize myself with them for future consideration.

Thanks much.


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## fretti

Well also depends on what amount of money you want to spend I'd say. Reaper and Logic (if your on mac) seem to be the two where you get the *whole* "Pro" Bundle for a reasonable price with no limitations. Cubase Artist is also a great way to start (as it offers most important functions, but is limited in others). Though I'd say that the orchestral-samples in the DAW themselves are already ok (up to good) nowadays, without a few proper VI's realism is a hard goal to achieve, at least in the orchestral field... for the most basic instruments (Drums, Piano etc.) I'd say the pre-installed instruments should work miles better than MuseScore already


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## fretti

Starkman said:


> I can put out the (current) $60.00 for Reaper, but anything higher is out of my game right now.


Well then Reaper seems to be the best option, as the 60$ version still offers the whole thing. While for Cubase and Ableton are "smaller" versions offered, these lack immensely in some basic functions. Can say that from Cubase Elements, as that was my first Cubase Version, and the lack of tempo tracks, limitation in Midi and Instrument-tracks etc. really hinder you from getting great results at some point. Whereas Reaper (as far as I know) only has the limitation of commercial music with the 60$ version...
No Reaper user though, so can't say how the installed instruments sound or what effects are offered



Starkman said:


> I think, though, when time permits, I'll do some serious research into Logic and Cubase, just to familiarize myself with them for future consideration.


When you decide for Reaper and like it, maybe there is no need for a switch as it's just as Pro as Logic, Cubase, Ableton or ProTools


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## Starkman

Robgb,
Yeah, that's what I've come to learn: all DAWs sound the same; it's the plugins that make the the difference, not the DAW. Reaper's on top of the list at the moment. My major concern (considering Reaper, Cakewalk and now, perhaps, down the road, Logic) is which, for a complete noob to the world of audio, is going to be the "easiest" to learn to do what I want to do (again, no recording, no notation, no EDM or anything like that).

I've got both Reaper and Cakewalk Bandlab installed, and I'm going through videos now before I get into either of them. I guess I'm finally at that place where I'll just have to put some time into both to see what works for me. (And now Logic is poking its head in the door saying, "Ahem...how about me?" and I'm saying, "How about your price!" Oh well!)

Thanks, folks, for your help.


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## Starkman

What about Cakewalk. Anybody here ever work with it?


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## fretti

Starkman said:


> for a complete noob to the world of audio, is going to be the "easiest" to learn to do what I want to do


Sorry to say that, but that would be imho Logic


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## Starkman

(Psst, fretti... I'm on it! I'll check out Logic, but pray the gods for some cash to come my way, eh!)


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## Saxer

Cakewalk runs on PC only so I assumed you're a PC user. Logic runs on Mac only (not on Windows). If you are on Mac it's probably the most-bang-for-the-buck solution. Doesn't help if you can't afford it now but it comes with a ton of good sounding instruments and libraries.


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## dzilizzi

I've used Sonar for many years. It is now Cakewalk. For the most part, it is easy to use, which is why I like it. Also I found going from Sonar to other DAWs like ProTools and Studio One was fairly easy. Cubase not so much. I have not tried Reaper. I'm not sure what is missing from Sonar in Cakewalk. When they bought it and made it free, they removed all of the non-Cakewalk owned products. But being free, it probably won't hurt to download and try it. Then try Reaper. 

Mainly, they all are workable, it really comes down to which workflow makes more sense and is working for you. If you are constantly fighting with your DAW, it's not the DAW for you.


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## Starkman

Saxer,

Yeah, just found that out about Logic being for Mac. Thanks.

dzilizzi,

Yeah, I have both Cakewalk and Reaper downloaded. I hope to get started on them soon.


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## Jazzy_Joe

Maxfabian said:


> Hi,




Lovely sound and playing! The reverb and depth of the trio is spot on for me. What VI's and reverb's are you using on your Improvisation track, if its not too off topic?


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## Maxfabian

Jazzy_Joe said:


> Lovely sound and playing! The reverb and depth of the trio is spot on for me. What VI's and reverb's are you using on your Improvisation track, if its not too off topic?



Thanks mate! Glad you liked it Its Ravenscroft 275, Trillian up right and VSL Jazz drums. The reverb is Altiverb. 

Cheers!


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## robgb

Starkman said:


> Robgb,
> Yeah, that's what I've come to learn: all DAWs sound the same; it's the plugins that make the the difference, not the DAW. Reaper's on top of the list at the moment. My major concern (considering Reaper, Cakewalk and now, perhaps, down the road, Logic) is which, for a complete noob to the world of audio, is going to be the "easiest" to learn to do what I want to do (again, no recording, no notation, no EDM or anything like that).
> 
> I've got both Reaper and Cakewalk Bandlab installed, and I'm going through videos now before I get into either of them. I guess I'm finally at that place where I'll just have to put some time into both to see what works for me. (And now Logic is poking its head in the door saying, "Ahem...how about me?" and I'm saying, "How about your price!" Oh well!)
> 
> Thanks, folks, for your help.


If you're going with Reaper (and it's a solid choice, not a starter choice), make sure you watch the tutorial videos at Reaper.fm, prepared by Kenny Gioia. I looked at Reaper and thought it was too complicated until I watched his videos. Now I'll never use another DAW.


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## Starkman

robgh,

Yup, I've already been there. I even posted on one of Kenny's Youtubes, that the videos alone (both Kenny's and the one's on Reaper's site) make the whole deal sold. I mean, how can you go wrong.

Honestly, though, I really was (and still partially am) considering Cakewalk Bandlab, but I'm to skeptical at the moment to invest much time into it after this new acquire. I mean, the forum doesn't even allow new account creation right now. When's that going to change? Otherwise, I'd be very incline to give both programs equal time.


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## NoamL

Starkman said:


> it's the plugins that make the the difference, not the DAW.



That's right Starkman. Nearly all of us here only use DAWs as a host for virtual instrument (VI) plugins by 3rd party developers - and these plugins can be hosted in any DAW. Also, the total cost of a good suite of orchestral VIs, even basic ones, will exceed the cost of the DAW itself. Many DAWs come with a "built in" set of VIs, but for the most part these are low quality and not a quantum leap beyond what you would experience with Musescore or Finale.

The DAW really only has two tasks for VI composers.

First it hosts the session in which we tell all the VIs what notes to play, when, and how loud. (every DAW I've ever seen is pretty much equally good at doing this).

Second the DAW hosts a virtual mix desk, which means we can route the audio signal coming from each VI the way we want, add effects, and tweak the sound to be what we want. (I use Logic, and the built-in audio tweaking plugins are so good I've scarcely bought any 3rd party plugins; however, Logic did cost $200 up front back when I bought it).


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## robgb

Starkman said:


> robgh,
> 
> Yup, I've already been there. I even posted on one of Kenny's Youtubes, that the videos alone (both Kenny's and the one's on Reaper's site) make the whole deal sold. I mean, how can you go wrong.
> 
> Honestly, though, I really was (and still partially am) considering Cakewalk Bandlab, but I'm to skeptical at the moment to invest much time into it after this new acquire. I mean, the forum doesn't even allow new account creation right now. When's that going to change? Otherwise, I'd be very incline to give both programs equal time.


Well, it IS free, so that's nice. Windows only, though.


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## pderbidge

fretti said:


> Whereas Reaper (as far as I know) only has the limitation of commercial music with the 60$ version...



You can use the $60 version for commercial use. If you make money over something like $250k a year with it then you are supposed to pay the premium price. It's an on your honor system. Imagine that. A company being successful with an honor system and no ilok but I digress....


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## macmac

The $60 version is for commercial use if your gross revenues do not exceed $20,000.


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## pderbidge

macmac said:


> The $60 version is for commercial use if your gross revenues do not exceed $20,000.


Looks like they recently changed that. When I posted my previous comment I had verified the info first. It used to be $250k for years. Still a reasonable deal though.


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