# MIDI Module question



## BopEuph (Mar 15, 2017)

I'm close to getting an Akai EVI controller, and definitely want to use better sounds than it comes with.

My libraries are on my PC, so I'd need something more portable. I know most people use laptops these days, but I've always felt more comfortable using hardware that's dedicated to one purpose. So I'm thinking about a module.

I was wondering, though: do laptops outperform modules these days? Can I load a purchased library onto a module?


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## synthpunk (Mar 15, 2017)

I know Steve Tavaglione who is one of the leading EWI session players uses a laptop & eurorack modular gear for sound design.


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## BopEuph (Mar 15, 2017)

Thanks. Sam Zambito is a friend of mine who's also a well-known EWI player. I'll get the chance to pick his brain a bit more after I get mine and swing by, but I think he's more into the old school sounds.

I feel like, since my cheap ASUS might not be up to snuff, it might not be the best route unless I get a high end laptop. 

I've heard that you can use a Raspberry Pi with a couple of VI sounds, but I don't know if I'm that tech savvy.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 15, 2017)

Are you going to use a current EWI with quasi-trumpet fingering or get an actual (older) EVI?

The modules that go with the older ones are much maligned, in my opinion. I have an EWI 3020m (and 3020), and it's a very good 2-oscillator digitally-controlled analog synth. Or I should say it sounds good; its programming interface through the little display sucks killer whale dingus. But you can start with the presets. I play it through a little keyboard amp and mic that when I'm not lazy.

But the real answer to your question is a question: what kinds of sounds are you after? Some of the Sample Modeling instruments work really well with a wind controller, and they're convincing real instruments, but they're V.I.s. You can use wind to modulate parameters on any analog or virtual analog synth, and even the original DX-7 came with a breath controller - i.e. digital synths work well too.

I use a Yamaha VL1 more than anything else. It does some good emulations, some cheesy ones, but what it does best is instruments that sound like they could exist. The way it responds is amazing.

The only thing that doesn't work all that well is sample libraries that are programmed for keyboard control. You're not going to use a lot of keyswitches on an EVI.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 15, 2017)

Sam's the guy to ask, no question. Great player and great guy.


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## BopEuph (Mar 15, 2017)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Are you going to use a current EWI with quasi-trumpet fingering or get an actual (older) EVI?


The older one. It's an EVI either 1000 or 2000, not sure which. The owner wants to trade for an Olds Recording model trumpet I have, but I don't play trumpet (I'm a low brass player). Sam said it's a good trade.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> The modules that go with the older ones are much maligned, in my opinion. I have an EWI 3020m (and 3020), and it's a very good 2-oscillator digitally-controlled analog synth. Or I should say it sounds good; its programming interface through the little display sucks killer whale dingus. But you can start with the presets. I play it through a little keyboard amp and mic that when I'm not lazy.


I'm not 100% sure how the accompanying module works; is it required to translate what happens on the controller? I imagined the sounds suck; I've heard people screwing around with their new toy on YouTube, and I'm just underwhelmed by the sounds they chose to use, when EWI players do some great things with them.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> But the real answer to your question is a question: what kinds of sounds are you after? Some of the Sample Modeling instruments work really well with a wind controller, and they're convincing real instruments, but they're V.I.s. You can use wind to modulate parameters on any analog or virtual analog synth, and even the original DX-7 came with a breath controller - i.e. digital synths work well too.


I'd love to be able to mostly have good wind instruments, especially woodwinds and world instruments...and I'm curious how the controller would handle percussion. I feel like that'd be very interesting to make work. I would like to have some old school synth sounds, but my guess is those are easy to come by.

I just recently played in the orchestra for a Game of Thrones show, and met Pedro Eustache. He rekindled my interest in learning the duduk, but I realized that since I'm just about to get an EVI, that would be a perfect sound to have.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 15, 2017)

Working backward:

- Pedro Eustache is a magician.

- Yes, old school analog sounds are easy to come by. Playing percussion with a wind controller is okay - you can double/triple-tongue. I've never done that seriously, because I also play percussion and would rather use my hands.

- Real woodwinds seem to be the hardest things to emulate. You might look into a Yamaha VL70m for world instrument sounds - again, that could be real but don't sound exactly like anything you've heard. It's a less expensive variation of the VL1 that uses the same acoustic modeling synthesis. Maybe Sam has some ideas about modules.

- The accompanying module is an analog synth as well as the brains of the EVI (brains = converts the analog voltages to digital, including MIDI). You do need the module to make the EVI work. The current EWI 4000s and 5000s have that built in, and there's also a less expensive EWI USB.

I haven't owned a 1000 or 2000, so I don't know about the synth module. It's an analog synth, and if I remember right it's a single-oscillator design - which doesn't automatically mean it's going to sound thin.


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## BopEuph (Mar 15, 2017)

-Yes he is. I love how he could make PVC sound incredible. I'm a multi-instrumentalist in low brass and strings, and think I could be as usefully versatile as him. Nowhere near his skill right now, though. Looking to get myself a few world brass instruments and try to repurpose them into this modern fantasy/film music movement that's been going on.

-Funny thing: as I was responding here, Sam told me that the Yamaha was the best bet.

-Good to know. That's kind of what I assumed.


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## synthpunk (Mar 15, 2017)

Yeah I'm thinking you're going to need a fairly robust MacBook Pro within the last few Generations.



BopEuph said:


> Thanks. Sam Zambito is a friend of mine who's also a well-known EWI player. I'll get the chance to pick his brain a bit more after I get mine and swing by, but I think he's more into the old school sounds.
> 
> I feel like, since my cheap ASUS might not be up to snuff, it might not be the best route unless I get a high end laptop.
> 
> I've heard that you can use a Raspberry Pi with a couple of VI sounds, but I don't know if I'm that tech savvy.


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## synthpunk (Mar 15, 2017)

Nick, what do you think about a Yamaha VL-70M for him?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 15, 2017)

I've never actually heard a VL70-m. It uses the same synthesis engine as the VL1, only with a single "element" (meaning voice) like the VL7. I believe single-element voices are compatible with all three.

But it's less expensive. Its audio specs aren't as good (16-bit vs. 20-bit DACs maybe?), and I remember there being some limitations to storing voices.

None of that means it's not a great instrument! A lot of wind controller players have one, and I've never heard anyone say they don't like it. Virtual Acoustic synthesis is fantastic for wind control. I wish they'd come out with a software version of it.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 15, 2017)

By the way, Wallander WIVI is another V.I. that works really well with a wind controller. It does real instrument emulations, and they range from pretty good to very good indeed.


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## BopEuph (Mar 16, 2017)

So the VL-70M seems to be continuously suggested, including the guy I'll probably be trading for the unit. I see a couple on eBay for the 500-700 range, and he said I should be able to find one cheaper than that. Just got off the phone, and he said that I should be able to find one around 350.

Has anyone thought about using a Raspberry Pi as a module and load a V.I. onto it for use? I assume that if you put a large enough SD card in one, you could, say, install the Wallander WIVI onto it. I'm not savvy enough to program my own Pi, though.

And I'm meeting with Sam next week to show me the ropes!


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## burp182 (Mar 16, 2017)

I'm more of a mind to recommend the laptop/VI route rather than a module for the source. A module is, as Frank Zappa once described a situation, a "sealed tuna sandwich". What it is is what it will be, for better or worse. A laptop gives you the option of exploring and exploiting the exploding world of VI sampling and synthesis.
I'm a Mac guy at heart but an i7 based PC laptop with an SSD and plenty of RAM doesn't cost near as much as a Macbook and provides equivalent or greater power. A simple audio interface and you're done.
I own a 3020 and a USB EWI and either should cover you in this. Latency might be a tiny bit less in the module-based system but a low buffer setting on a strong laptop will pretty much even things out. And the incredible options available for sounds on a computer-based setup would seem pretty irresistable.
As always, YMMV.


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## synthpunk (Mar 16, 2017)

I think laptop / VI is going to be the way for you to go for sound design and a VL70m module.

I also recommend you check out Madrona labs Kaivo modeling synth
http://madronalabs.com/products/kaivo


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## BopEuph (Mar 16, 2017)

Yeah, I think I want to eventually go both routes. The VL70M has a lot of cool sounds, and it was kind of made for the EVI. 

I do want to be able to use more modern VI's as well, so I might be looking into upgrading the laptop. It's really a POS right now, but I know that it has more room for more RAM, and I can put a SSD in it, as well.


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## synthpunk (Mar 16, 2017)

You will most likely need a speedy four core CPU in your laptop to run a lot of best v.i.'s.


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## BopEuph (Mar 16, 2017)

Good to know. Yeah, I'm pretty sure my laptop is dual, but I'll check when I get home.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 16, 2017)

Well, the operative words are "a lot of." I did an experiment the other day, and I was amazed at how much I could run on a grossly underpowered 11" MacBook air that I started up from my Mac Pro's 5400 rpm USB bus-powered back-up drive - which I used for the samples as well.

It ran a bunch of voices, like 40, of a Quantum Leap Bosendorfer (one mic position) with reverb on. Then I copied the track and loaded a pizz Hollywood Strings section, copied it again onto a short-bow string section.

It actually did it!

I don't use that computer for music, just general computer stuff, but I was surprised at what it could do. It has something like a dual 1.4GHz processor, 8GB, but I didn't even stream off its SSD - this was off a 5400 spinning drive. The latest Logic Pro X.


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## BopEuph (Mar 17, 2017)

My laptop has:

Intel Quad Core Pentium N3700 Processor up to 2.4 GHz (but I think I remember reading that it's generally 1.2)

4GB RAM, but I remember that it has a slot for an additional 4gb

500GB HDD, which I could throw an SSD into.

This was mainly to do Finale work and some word processing/internet browsing when I'm away from home. It was mostly used to write a book I did for Hal Leonard. So, while it's frustratingly slow, I pretty much got my money's worth out of it. I paid $250 at Amazon.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Mar 17, 2017)

If it's frustratingly slow, it's going to be frustratingly underpowered.

My experiment wasn't totally scientific!


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## BopEuph (Mar 17, 2017)

Yeah, I just swung by the local shop, and though it's past it's 30-day return grace period, he recommended I try to get Amazon to refund me, because the cpu is actually 1.6gHz, not 2.4. 

Amazon recommended that I contact the seller, and depending on their response they might refund me.

Still, I'll probably get two laptops: one for my coffee shop work, and one for EVI work.


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## Saxer (Mar 18, 2017)

For live playing you don't need much. Playing EVI is mostly a single monophonic voice. Using Samplemodeling, WIVI or softsynths doesn't even need a lot of RAM. Only the CPU speed should be high enough to have power for the sometimes demanding instruments and effect chains behind. So the best choice would be a dual core with 3.5 GHz or above (if live playing is the main usage). Reaper as a VST host is effective on CPU.


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## jonathanprice (Mar 18, 2017)

I used a VL70m with my WX5 until Samplemodeling started coming out with their full WW and BR sections. Now it's collecting dust. The sounds weren't bad, but if you go that route instead of the laptop, check out the VL70m soundbanks from Patchman Music. They were a huge improvement from the factory presets.


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## BopEuph (Mar 18, 2017)

Saxer said:


> Reaper as a VST host is effective on CPU.



I'd also assume my Sonar X1 would work too...but couldn't I just use Kontakt to go through? Or is a full DAW NEEDED?

I think I'm just going to get a used laptop from the computer shop I go to.



jonathanprice said:


> I used a VL70m with my WX5 until Samplemodeling started coming out with their full WW and BR sections. Now it's collecting dust. The sounds weren't bad, but if you go that route instead of the laptop, check out the VL70m soundbanks from Patchman Music. They were a huge improvement from the factory presets.



Oh, absolutely. I've gone through the examples on Matt's site and really like a bunch of them. 

If you're considering selling your Yamaha, let me know!  Sam thinks he might have a lead for one for around 350 though.


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## BopEuph (Mar 18, 2017)

By the way, I would add that I'd pay almost twice that if it includes the Patchman soundbanks.


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## BopEuph (Mar 19, 2017)

So if I were to get a Windows laptop for this use, which OS would be good for it?

I imagine that newest isn't needed since it will probably never be used on the internet, and while I use Win10 on my desktop fine, I hear that it's more of a CPU hog than previous versions. Would, say, Win7 64-bit be a better option?


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## burp182 (Mar 19, 2017)

There seems to be very little difference between 7 and 10 at this point, according to builders. A caveat, though - computers from major companies like Dell and HP often have "bloatware" installed on them from the factory. A propper cleanout of that may prove beneficial. There are others here far more qualified than I to guide you on the specifics of that, if it proves necessary.


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## BopEuph (Mar 19, 2017)

As for bloat, I've been using a free scanner called Tronscript that removes bloat. It's a pretty powerful script, and is essentially a bundle of all the top free antivirus and antimalware scanners, as well as running checkdisk and defragging, etc. The only downside is that it sometimes recognizes some laptop drivers as bloat, but they're easily reinstalled. It does seem that, if this computer never does go on the internet, the only thing I need to really do is a one time run of that script to remove bloat, and a regular defrag.


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## BopEuph (Oct 1, 2018)

So, it's been over a year, and I wanted to give an update:

Had the Akai EWI1000 for a year now. It's a purely analog, awesome piece for its time, and I've gotten a lot of practice out of it.

Here's some use I've gotten. The first one is kinda loud, so watch out:





The Akai is great, but it's not very versatile. The MIDI out has some latency, and it takes a well-known guy to fix it up, who's a long way away, and very costly; and needs a lot of work, since it's sat in its case for 20 some-odd years. So I'm currently trading it for a NuEVI, which Johann Berglund in Europe developed to update the newer MidiEVI. I bought a VL70-m from a forum member, and have the Patchman Turbo chip on its way. Pedro Eustache told me to be careful with this rabbit hole for money. I think he might be right.

Back to computer talk, a lot of windsynth players are strongly recommending a Mac machine with Logic and Mainstage 3, which seems to be becoming the industry standard for samples for wind controllers. I'd rather stick with PC, but Mainstage is a great price with over 50gb of samples that are getting rave reviews by windsynth players, and is dirt cheap. Surely there's a PC equivalent to Mainstage?


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