# [Solved] I want to jump into making music on an iMac, some thoughts/concerns.



## Kameo (Feb 22, 2021)

So as someone who works in IT and also makes music, I've decided that I was going to start getting familiar with apple computers/phones/operating systems (Mac OS/iOS). I've always used an android phone and a PC so I was looking for some direction as someone who doesn't follow Apple too much. I bought an iPhone 12 in January, so that's a start (side note: for my first iPhone, compared to my Samsung S9, the iphone and iOS has a very shiny premium feel to it. I gotta say, I like it. Reminds me of an iPod touch I had years ago). 

So now I'm looking to buy my first apple computer.

My current PC for making music and other work is essentially:

CPU: Ryzen 7 3700x
RAM: 16GB
STORAGE: 2TB SSD (1 TB SSD x2)
GPU: Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 580

I was hoping to get a 27" iMac with the 10 core i9, my own 64GB of ram, and a 1TB internal SSD (I have external storage already, total should be over 2GB). Sweetwater has this config in stock and I like buying from them, so I'll probably get it from them. Am I right in thinking this will be equal or better than my current PC in performance?

But here is where I'm hesitant:

1. It hurts to pay money for an iMac with parts that I know are cheaper if I built a pc myself. It's money that I'm willing to pay of course, but money I could also use to just build a better PC than my current one. Yeah it goes against the whole point which is to have a Mac to work on and get familiar with for both work and music production...but man does it hurt not just going to PC Part Picker and going to town. A real trailblazer I know, no one has ever said something so brave before. I just felt like I had to say this, more of a vent than a question.

2. Is it worth buying one now with the config I described? Or should I wait for whatever the next iMac release is going to be? By March I'll have the money to buy a Mac but I have no idea how Apple releases things or what's coming next. I know people here follow that more and all that google tells me is no event in March and a lot of product rumors.

Feel free to pick apart my ramblings and give me your thoughts on my plans/thoughts if you can. I'd like to hear from iMac users on their experience if they have a similar configuration

Thanks,
Kameo✨


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 22, 2021)

You already have a decent PC...it really depends on what type of productions you'll be working on. Do you run large orchestral templates? Do you own a lot of resource-hungry VI's such as Hollywood Strings Diamond and Berlin Strings? If not, then your current PC is most likely just fine. If anything, I would consider upgrading the Ram to at least 32GB and investing in an audio interface, studio monitors, and sample libraries. Unless you specifically need to run Logic as your DAW (and totally prefer the Mac OS environment), buying a new Mac has no real benefit.

If you do go the Mac route, that iMac is a very powerful machine. No one knows what's around the corner for the M1 models, but time will tell. Also keep in mind you will need to buy an audio interface (regardless), and external SSD's to host your sample libraries. With your PC, you can just drop in internal drives as needed.

I personally love using Mac, but I'm deeply into the eco system and I really enjoy using Logic. If I were you, I'd grab an audio interface and see how far you can push your current machine and upgrade it from there as required (Ram, etc).


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## easyrider (Feb 22, 2021)

Kameo said:


> So as someone who works in IT and also makes music, I've decided that I was going to start getting familiar with apple computers/phones/operating systems (Mac OS/iOS). I've always used an android phone and a PC so I was looking for some direction as someone who doesn't follow Apple too much. I bought an iPhone 12 in January, so that's a start (side note: for my first iPhone, compared to my Samsung S9, the iphone and iOS has a very shiny premium feel to it. I gotta say, I like it. Reminds me of an iPod touch I had years ago).
> 
> So now I'm looking to buy my first apple computer.
> 
> ...


What motherboard have you got ?


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## uOpt (Feb 22, 2021)

An iMac is not that overpriced if you factor in the quality of the screen. The iMac Pro is a different matter...

Hard to imagine you will be unhappy with the current 10-core iMac. But an ARM powered one might be coming soon.


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## vitocorleone123 (Feb 22, 2021)

What’s holding you back on a PC that a Mac will solve?


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## rnb_2 (Feb 22, 2021)

It sounds like @Kameo is looking at this as partly a professional development project, where he's buying an iPhone and a Mac to become familiar with them, and he's looking at music production as something he's familiar with to help him understand how macOS compares with his PC.

Going from that assumption, it's important to note that the Mac line is in transition right now, from Intel processors to Apple Silicon ARM processors. The first iteration of Apple Silicon, the M1, is only available in the MacBook Air, low-end MacBook Pro, and low-end Mac mini models. The M1 is very impressive, but also limited in some ways, as it can only accommodate 16GB of RAM and drive two displays. The next batch of models to switch over, most likely in June, will probably be higher-end MacBook Pros and possibly something like a 24-inch iMac to replace the current 21.5" model. These will likely have a variant of the M1 (most people are calling this the M1x, holding to the naming convention for the chips in the iPad Pro line) that will likely support more RAM, processor cores, and GPU cores. The whole Mac line should be transitioned to Apple Silicon by mid-to-late 2022.

The i9 27" iMac will probably be a little bit faster than your Ryzen 7 system - Geekbench shows the i9 as about 6% faster. While that model is expensive, you should factor in the excellent display it comes with. Since the PC industry, largely driven by gaming and Windows' poor handling of HiDPI, has pretty much settled on ever-larger 4k displays at this point, 5k displays remain fairly exotic and expensive ($1200). With Thunderbolt 3 and easy RAM expansion, the i9 iMac will remain viable for many years.

However, given that your current PC only has 16GB of RAM, I think a case could be made to take a look at either the M1 Mac mini or MacBook Air if you want to learn about macOS while making music, while spending a lot less than you would on the iMac. You should be able to run the Mac versions of whatever music software you're familiar with at similar performance to your PC - the multi-core benchmarks for the M1 have it behind your Ryzen 7 by about 12%, but single core performance is the best in the industry (35% faster than your Ryzen 7 and the i9 iMac), and that is actually useful in music production, where some music software prioritizes a single thread to maintain real-time performance.

Combine an M1 Mac mini 16GB/1TB model (best price currently $1219) with a decent 4k display, keyboard, and mouse (you might even be able to use a KVM switch or multi-device-pairing peripherals to share between your PC and Mac), and you'll save several hundred dollars, possibly well over $1k, vs the iMac. This would let you learn about macOS for a much smaller initial outlay while the other Mac models get revised, and in 18-24 months, you can decide whether you want to invest in a new PC or a higher-end Apple Silicon Mac.

Be aware that there is danger in this path - I bought my first Mac, one of the last PowerPC Mac minis, fifteen years ago because I was working in IT and got tired of doing the exact same thing on my home computers as I did all day at work. I never built another PC, and have bought another 10+ Macs since (I change my mind/upgrade frequently, and currently have 4 Macs in a 2-person household).


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## Kameo (Feb 22, 2021)

> It sounds like @Kameo is looking at this as partly a professional development project, where he's buying an iPhone and a Mac to become familiar with them, and he's looking at music production as something he's familiar with to help him understand how macOS compares with his PC.


@rnb_2 This. I'm not a big PC gamer so I can't go by gaming performance, but I know how many instances of Diva I can run on my current PC (less than you would think) so using music production to compare performance makes sense. It's all about that power with me. The professional development aspect comes from when I get iOS questions at work and I just have to either fiercely google answers or admit defeat. I'd rather just know how to do things like I do with my PC and Android phone.



> It's important to note that the Mac line is in transition right now, from Intel processors to Apple Silicon ARM processors.


I did hear about this, and it makes me wonder if seamless compatibility with already released plugins and audio production software is immediately possible. I'm hoping it really will be that much better than just using the staple Intel processors performance wise to make up for any compatibility issues.



> The i9 27" iMac will probably be a little bit faster than your Ryzen 7 system - Geekbench shows the i9 as about 6% faster. While that model is expensive, you should factor in the excellent display it comes with. Since the PC industry, largely driven by gaming and Windows' poor handling of HiDPI, has pretty much settled on ever-larger 4k displays at this point, 5k displays remain fairly exotic and expensive ($1200). With Thunderbolt 3 and easy RAM expansion, the i9 iMac will remain viable for many years.


I...can't believe I forgot that I'm also buying a really nice monitor too. That makes sense now why it's so expensive. It's parts + screen. Well now I feel silly.



> However, given that your current PC only has 16GB of RAM...


It would have been more if I wasn't saving for apple stuff. It might be nonsensical, but I'm a fan of overkill for longevity.



> I think a case could be made to take a look at either the M1 Mac mini or MacBook Air if you want to learn about macOS while making music, while spending a lot less than you would on the iMac. You should be able to run the Mac versions of whatever music software you're familiar with at similar performance to your PC - the multi-core benchmarks for the M1 have it behind your Ryzen 7 by about 12%, but single core performance is the best in the industry (35% faster than your Ryzen 7 and the i9 iMac), and that is actually useful in music production, where some music software prioritizes a single thread to maintain real-time performance.


Don't the newer versions of Ableton specifically take advantage of multi-core performance over needing higher single core performance? I thought the whole "single core performance matters" thing was starting to become less important ad multi-core support increases. At any rate, the MacBook air and MacBook Pro were something I started thinking about today. The M1 only comes in the 13 inch MacBook though...gonna need my magnifying glass.



> Combine an M1 Mac mini 16GB/1TB model (best price currently $1219) with a decent 4k display, keyboard, and mouse (you might even be able to use a KVM switch or multi-device-pairing peripherals to share between your PC and Mac), and you'll save several hundred dollars, possibly well over $1k, vs the iMac. This would let you learn about macOS for a much smaller initial outlay while the other Mac models get revised, and in 18-24 months, you can decide whether you want to invest in a new PC or a higher-end Apple Silicon Mac.


Well now I've decided that I'm not going to invest any of the money I'm saving into PC since my PC is ok still and I do want to get the best of what I can in Mac for the money I have. I guess that comes down to whether I want to wait for news on Apple's CPU's or just go for the i9 while I can. Although I admit some part of me is secretly hoping the Mac becomes my main music production computer, everything just looks so nice.



> Be aware that there is danger in this path - I bought my first Mac, one of the last PowerPC Mac minis, fifteen years ago because I was working in IT and got tired of doing the exact same thing on my home computers as I did all day at work. I never built another PC, and have bought another 10+ Macs since (I change my mind/upgrade frequently, and currently have 4 Macs in a 2-person household).


This isn't the first time I heard about this happening funnily enough. Several other people I know who work in tech would make jokes about Apple, but as soon as they bought it, it was just "man...this is actually pretty smooth." That seems to be when it's too late. 

Kameo✨


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## chimuelo (Feb 22, 2021)

I’ve had no problems with the 3700X other than using tight timings (unnecessary for recording) but B550 which I’m considering on buying with a 5000 series APU, as well as X570 boards seem to have issues with non PCI-e based interfaces. UAD forums have some issues with compatibility and finicky DRAM too. At least AMD acknowledged this and is addressing the issues.









AMD acknowledges USB connectivity issues on X570 and B550 motherboards


For the past few months, reports of sporadic USB disconnections on 500-series motherboards have been stacking up on the desk of AMD's subreddit. Some users have reported...




www.techspot.com


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## rnb_2 (Feb 22, 2021)

Kameo said:


> @rnb_2 This. I'm not a big PC gamer so I can't go by gaming performance, but I know how many instances of Diva I can run on my current PC (less than you would think) so using music production to compare performance makes sense. It's all about that power with me. The professional development aspect comes from when I get iOS questions at work and I just have to either fiercely google answers or admit defeat. I'd rather just know how to do things like I do with my PC and Android phone.
> 
> 
> I did hear about this, and it makes me wonder if seamless compatibility with already released plugins and audio production software is immediately possible. I'm hoping it really will be that much better than just using the staple Intel processors performance wise to make up for any compatibility issues.
> ...


Thanks for all the extra information; sorry if I complicated your immediate decision, but whichever way you decide to go, I hope I've helped you make a well-informed decision.

The 2020 iMacs are great machines, and that i9 will be a beast for a while (and come with a truly great display). Also, the Mac experience is better with an Apple keyboard and trackpad — Apple has put a lot of thought into various gestures that make working with a trackpad generally better than a mouse —and those can also be ordered with the iMac from some retailers (not from Sweetwater, it appears, though).

My experience with the M1 Mac mini has showed pretty amazing compatibility with just about everything I've thrown at it - the OS translates the Intel code to ARM on first run, so it's not a case of constantly emulating anything. My only systematic speed test with an Intel app showed a slight edge to the M1 over my 2018 i7 Mac mini, but the i7 and i9 2020 iMacs would, in general, be faster than the M1 running Intel apps.

Another bonus of the Mac is access to Logic, which is an absolute bargain for everything you get, and Apple hasn't charged for an update since 2013.


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## Solarsentinel (Feb 23, 2021)

Kameo said:


> So as someone who works in IT and also makes music, I've decided that I was going to start getting familiar with apple computers/phones/operating systems (Mac OS/iOS). I've always used an android phone and a PC so I was looking for some direction as someone who doesn't follow Apple too much. I bought an iPhone 12 in January, so that's a start (side note: for my first iPhone, compared to my Samsung S9, the iphone and iOS has a very shiny premium feel to it. I gotta say, I like it. Reminds me of an iPod touch I had years ago).
> 
> So now I'm looking to buy my first apple computer.
> 
> ...


Hi,
you already have a very good machine, and with this setup you'll be able to do everything you want, even with DIVA or anothers synths. Perhaps just upgrading the RAM to 32go will be nice.
In fact, with a MAC you won't see a big difference, unless you'll choose a 16 cores processor or more and you will work with more 250 tracks, but it will be the same with a 16 cores or 32 cores PC built.

For your choice, the power isn't a factor here, so if you want to switch just do it


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## Kameo (Feb 24, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> Thanks for all the extra information; sorry if I complicated your immediate decision, but whichever way you decide to go, I hope I've helped you make a well-informed decision.
> 
> The 2020 iMacs are great machines, and that i9 will be a beast for a while (and come with a truly great display). Also, the Mac experience is better with an Apple keyboard and trackpad — Apple has put a lot of thought into various gestures that make working with a trackpad generally better than a mouse —and those can also be ordered with the iMac from some retailers (not from Sweetwater, it appears, though).
> 
> ...


Man this is making me want to wait for new M1 news, June is when more on that comes out right? Guess I'll hold out a little longer. I imagine if longevity is my goal, going for the future cpu tech and waiting for app optimization would be the safer option for the money. Especially if I'm dropping like $3500 on it and I don't really upgrade often.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 24, 2021)

Kameo said:


> Man this is making me want to wait for new M1 news, June is when more on that comes out right? Guess I'll hold out a little longer. I imagine if longevity is my goal, going for the future cpu tech and waiting for app optimization would be the safer option for the money. Especially if I'm dropping like $3500 on it and I don't really upgrade often.


The problem is, they might not release anything “pro” until later in the year. Plus, it’s going to take a while due developers to catch up. For example, Apogee has told me my Element 24 won’t be compatible with M1 until possibly the end of the year.


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## rnb_2 (Feb 24, 2021)

Kameo said:


> Man this is making me want to wait for new M1 news, June is when more on that comes out right? Guess I'll hold out a little longer. I imagine if longevity is my goal, going for the future cpu tech and waiting for app optimization would be the safer option for the money. Especially if I'm dropping like $3500 on it and I don't really upgrade often.


It is a tough balancing act right now - I don't make my living with music, and 16GB has been fine for my photo/video work (plus, I can hand the M1 mini down to my wife to replace her iMac when something more powerful arrives), so it wasn't a hard decision for me to grab one and learn about it. I do think we'll see something with more RAM and higher performance around WWDC in June, but whether you consider those machines "Pro" probably depends on your needs.

The higher end of the MacBook Pro line is certainly used by a lot of developers, and that seems like a logical next step. The 21.5" iMac didn't get updated last year with the 27", and that 21.5" panel has always been an odd duck (very high resolution for such a small panel, and it's been phased out from LG's monitor line), so a 24" replacement with performance on a level with the 16" MacBook Pro makes sense. This will probably also be the first redesign for the iMac line in many years, where it will likely have the current wide bezels pulled in quite a bit and lose the "chin" at the bottom, and probably be flat on the back without the need to cool an Intel chip.


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## Kameo (Feb 27, 2021)

rnb_2 said:


> It is a tough balancing act right now - I don't make my living with music, and 16GB has been fine for my photo/video work (plus, I can hand the M1 mini down to my wife to replace her iMac when something more powerful arrives), so it wasn't a hard decision for me to grab one and learn about it. I do think we'll see something with more RAM and higher performance around WWDC in June, but whether you consider those machines "Pro" probably depends on your needs.
> 
> The higher end of the MacBook Pro line is certainly used by a lot of developers, and that seems like a logical next step. The 21.5" iMac didn't get updated last year with the 27", and that 21.5" panel has always been an odd duck (very high resolution for such a small panel, and it's been phased out from LG's monitor line), so a 24" replacement with performance on a level with the 16" MacBook Pro makes sense. This will probably also be the first redesign for the iMac line in many years, where it will likely have the current wide bezels pulled in quite a bit and lose the "chin" at the bottom, and probably be flat on the back without the need to cool an Intel chip.


The futures of both iMac and MacBook Pro are looking very promising. Pretty much set on a next gen iMac at this point. Thought about the MacBook Pro incase I ever want to be portable, but in reality, I'm never making music portably so I'd rather just have an all-in-1. I would be interested in seeing one with a thinner bezel. I'm hoping a thinner back doesn't hurt thermals at all. I would rather have good cooling over sacrificing to make it paper thin.


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## Elrik Settee (Feb 27, 2021)

Grab an M1 Mini. There are some good deals at the moment. As others have said, you can use the rest of your kit with it.

A low cost toe in the water. You'll be amazed.

Just one tip about the Mac... Unlike Windows the consistency and redundancy in the OS means that you may not realise that the answer is "yes, you can just..." 90% of the time.

So, raise your expectations of an OS. Invest some time in understanding the Mac way.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 27, 2021)

Elrik Settee said:


> So, raise your expectations of an OS. Invest some time in understanding the Mac way.


Unfortunately, the developers still need to catch up. I was going to grab a mini until I realized my interface and several plugins aren’t compatible. I think it will be at least a year before everything is on par.


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