# Worst advice you've gotten concerning the music business?



## Stephen Limbaugh (Sep 4, 2020)

There are lots of "advice" threads, but for fun, what is the worst piece of advice you have received (solicited or unsolicited) concerning the music business?

(I am legitimately excited to read the replies!)


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 4, 2020)

Hmm. Maybe: don't have a plan B. The existence of plan B makes you not succeed at plan A.


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## Alex Fraser (Sep 4, 2020)

_"You absolutely need a Mackie D8b"_


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## stixman (Sep 4, 2020)

Get into library music!


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## Henu (Sep 4, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> Hmm. Maybe: don't have a plan B. The existence of plan B makes you not succeed at plan A.



Haha, I came here to write the same!


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## davidson (Sep 4, 2020)

_"Make the most of the tools you already own."_

Idiots. I'm only in this for my consumer dopamine rush.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Sep 4, 2020)

"Learn to make good coffee".


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## Crowe (Sep 4, 2020)

_There's a lot of people who can do this much better than you can._

10-year-old me did *not* need to hear that.


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## Crowe (Sep 4, 2020)

Oh, and also _"You need to have picked out your career after you leave here, and you need to make sure it has good opportunities for growth"._

Upon leaving high school.

Edit: My third favorite being _"What? Art is not a career."_

Edit again: I seem to have a lot of these. Wonder what it means.

_"That's just the nature of the business. You gotta roll with the punches."_


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## Kent (Sep 4, 2020)

"you have to pay your dues"


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## Daryl (Sep 4, 2020)

"There are a lot of bad composers who make a pretty good living in LA, and you might be as good as one of them".


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## Saxer (Sep 4, 2020)

Teachers in school told me that I will be missing the good life I had in school later. Never happened!


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## Martin S (Sep 4, 2020)

When announcing to my parents that I was accepted for Music Conservatory : "That's all fine.. But don't you want a REAL education ??!?"


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## bryla (Sep 4, 2020)

“You need to have a plan B. What if you lose some of your fingers and can’t play?”

when my grade school teacher who told me this 13 years later saw my name in the credits of Arrival she wrote to me “good thing you never needed the plan B!”


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## Sarah Mancuso (Sep 4, 2020)

"These top40 pop artists with pro producers and vast promotional resources all seem successful, why don't you try just making that kind of music instead?"


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## marclawsonmusic (Sep 4, 2020)

Daryl said:


> "There are a lot of bad composers who make a pretty good living in LA, and you might be as good as one of them".



Wow, that is really harsh!


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## JonS (Sep 4, 2020)

I was told at the very beginning of my career to _"take whatever amount of money that was being offered to you and hopefully they will offer you more next time."_

This was the worst advice I ever got. 

Never take the first offer a producer makes to you!

You can be sure that producers/studio execs can pay you and are prepared to pay you significantly more than they first offer you. There were times I found out I could have been paid anywhere from 5x to 25x more than they paid me so never just say yes to an offer. Get an agent or entertainment attorney to negotiate for you, and even then don't just accept some lowball offer. Inquire to what fees studios and producers typically pay out for the kind of project you are doing and make sure you are getting a fair amount. Don't ever think that paying your dues means you have to be horribly taken advantage of. There are not enough honorable people in this biz so be prepared to seek out how much is a reasonable fee and ask for that amount. If you stand pat on the fee amount you want, they are likely to eventually pay you that much. Yes, you may lose a job opportunity if you stand pat on your rates but once you start negotiating against yourself there is no end to how little you will get paid let alone to working for free, which will make the producers not respect you in the long run too. Producers respect composers who are not so cheap, remember that.


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## JohnG (Sep 4, 2020)

great thread!

Most people advise others to replicate their own, precise path to greatness. But there is no way to do that. Music is always changing, the money flows are always changing. Or stopping, in some areas.

So I don't think you can give advice as such -- maybe on tactical things, or the playable range of a French Horn or something, ...

...but "you should [fill in the blank]." -- futile.


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## method1 (Sep 4, 2020)

"Jazz harmonica is gonna be the next big thing!"

But seriously... "do it for the exposure"


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## Loïc D (Sep 4, 2020)

Nothing can beat hardware sampler !
Buy it.


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## JonS (Sep 4, 2020)

Another great word of advice was from a huge film composer agent/manager. What he said is not untrue, but if everyone listened to him there would be no composers in the world.

_“This is an impossible business to be in.”_


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## markd (Sep 4, 2020)

"You should become a musician"


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## MartinH. (Sep 4, 2020)

"It's just a standard contract, everyone signs these."


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## JJP (Sep 4, 2020)

"People took advantage of me on my way up, so now I get to do it to you. One day you'll have your turn."


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## CT (Sep 4, 2020)

MC JJFresh said:


> "People took advantage of me on my way up, so now I get to do it to you. One day you'll have your turn."



I'm really sorry I spoke to you that way. I swear I've changed.


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## José Herring (Sep 4, 2020)

After taking a standardized aptitude test in high school and answering nearly every question with being good at creative things, I got the results back that I'd best be suited for a career in garbage collecting or janitorial services with an aim towards being an administrative manager in these fields in my future. I'm not making that up either. 

It made the meeting with my guidance counselor after that awkward especially since I was already an award winning musician with a full scholarship to my local University. 

Ah, yeah school. Wasn't it just so fun!!!


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Sep 4, 2020)

I have a handful...

"X number of people apply for X conservatory every year. Depending on the instrument, your chances of being accepted are less than a tenth of a percent. Then after that, even fewer move on for a masters or doctorate. Then, you have to wait for someone to die to get a symphony gig, or you have to go into teaching. If you are not literally one of the top 2 or 3 players in the country, you won't make it in the classical world as a performer. You will need to supplement your income. This is an impossible business. So get that teaching degree."

"Nobody in the music business cares if you are a great pianist or not. If you spend more time developing a fan base, you will see more success."

"If you haven't made it by age 21 you won't make it."

"If you haven't made it by age 25 you won't make it."

"If you are thirty, you have only a couple years left to make it."

"Tonality is dead."


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## Rex282 (Sep 4, 2020)

In the year 1989:

Video game programmer:”How many people want to play a guitar video game?”
Me:”....well...I think everyone would!”
Video game programmer:”But how many guitar video games are there?”
Me:...well none...but...”
Video game programmer: “I have to pass”
Me:”......fuckin idiot...”


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## b_elliott (Sep 4, 2020)

Can't help but recall Amadeus' gem of advice from the emperor and his fawning Music Director:

Emperor: "... there's too many notes." 
[script should have been] Mozart: "Da fuck?"


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Sep 4, 2020)




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## Stephen Limbaugh (Sep 4, 2020)




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## robgb (Sep 4, 2020)

Give up.


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## Polkasound (Sep 4, 2020)

"But we already have a guitarist in our band. We really need you to play bass. Besides, girls go crazy over bass players."


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## JJP (Sep 4, 2020)

Mike T said:


> I'm really sorry I spoke to you that way. I swear I've changed.



Don't you swear at me, you fahrpiggenstunrendt!


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## JJP (Sep 4, 2020)

José Herring said:


> After taking a standardized aptitude test in high school and answering nearly every question with being good at creative things, I got the results back that I'd best be suited for a career in garbage collecting or janitorial services with an aim towards being an administrative manager in these fields in my future. I'm not making that up either.



After taking that test I was told I was best suited for marketing and public relations. I think that test was pretty spot on. I probably should have listened. ...But then I wouldn't have all these outrageous stories to share at parties.


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## creativeforge (Sep 4, 2020)

"I can't pay you much, but think about it - you will get *exposure*!"


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## Locks (Sep 4, 2020)

bryla said:


> “You need to have a plan B. What if you lose some of your fingers and can’t play?”
> 
> when my grade school teacher who told me this 13 years later saw my name in the credits of Arrival she wrote to me “good thing you never needed the plan B!”



Hey, nice work! I watched that movie again just recently and loved the score.


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## Mike Fox (Sep 4, 2020)

I was once asked to score a low budget horror film. I was told that there wouldn't be any pay involved, but that i should do it for free, because there was going to be a topless scene with a former Playboy Bunny. 

....to this day I regret turning it down. 😂


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## InLight-Tone (Sep 4, 2020)

My Father: People that pursue Music are gay...


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## JJP (Sep 4, 2020)

InLight-Tone said:


> My Father: People that pursue Music are gay...



Is your father a fan of Broadway?


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## CT (Sep 4, 2020)

Mike Fox said:


> I was once asked to score a low budget horror film. I was told that there wouldn't be any pay involved, but that i should do it for free, because there was going to be a topless scene with a former Playboy Bunny.
> 
> ....to this day I regret turning it down. 😂



Did you at least see it later on?


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## Kyle Preston (Sep 5, 2020)

*“FUCK streaming. Cassettes. Are. Back!” *

- Guy next to me on a plane listening to his Sony Walkman in 2019.

There’s a 100% chance he’s a serial killer.


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## Crowe (Sep 5, 2020)

Kyle Preston said:


> *“FUCK streaming. Cassettes. Are. Back!” *
> 
> - Guy next to me on a plane listening to his Sony Walkman in 2019.
> 
> There’s a 100% chance he’s a serial killer.



To be fair, to this day I prefer my media to be free of internet connections.

But then again there *is* a real chance I might just lose it one day.


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## Kyle Preston (Sep 5, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> To be fair, to this day I prefer my media to be free of internet connections.
> 
> But then again there *is* a real chance I might just lose it one day.




All good my friend, I was only kidding. Probably should’ve emphasized my sarcasm more


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## Crowe (Sep 5, 2020)

Kyle Preston said:


> All good my friend, I was only kidding. Probably should’ve emphasized my sarcasm more



Of course, and I was jesting in turn. Text-only communication makes things difficult XD.


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## Ivan M. (Sep 5, 2020)

From the internet:
,,You can do it" (taking many forms, like if you persist, if you sacrifice, if you network, if good gear, if quality, if this, if that bla bla bla)
No. You can not. Not necessarily. You can only try your best, and be at peace that you did so. No results are guaranteed. You'll improve in some areas, yes, but no guarantee you'll get where you wanted, especially regarding money. No guarantees in life in general.


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## MGdepp (Sep 5, 2020)

“This is the point of being a music professional. You do the work you were hired to do regardless of the viewpoint of the filmmakers.” _(regarding the question, should you score a questionable right-wing propaganda film or generally morally questionable media)_


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## Karl Feuerstake (Sep 5, 2020)

b_elliott said:


> Can't help but recall Amadeus' gem of advice from the emperor and his fawning Music Director:
> 
> Emperor: "... there's too many notes."
> [script should have been] Mozart: "Da fuck?"




I disagree, I think the Emperor is right, and his reasoning is important too, even though the scene is designed to make him obviously look like an idiot. But he has a different way of thinking about programmatic music, and he is on to something


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## tf-drone (Sep 5, 2020)

Hi,

the worst advice came from my father, studying chemistry and chemical engineering in parallel. That would have taken a 36-h-day. But he meant it kindly.


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## Stringtree (Sep 5, 2020)

You need that piece of paper! (diploma)

Another well-meaning father.


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Sep 6, 2020)

Interesting how much of the bad advice comes from people _not_ in the music business. Quieting the seeds of doubt implanted by teachers, well-meaning fathers, strangers or critics seems to be the eternal struggle of musicians.


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## danevaz (Sep 6, 2020)

As a teen in a rock band in 60s NYC, the family of the keyboard player knew the producer Burt Berns. So they arranged to have him give the band a listen. Band was a quartet – two Italian and two Puerto Rican kids from the Bronx, NY. My brother and I (the two "brown" Puerto Ricans) were attending the High School of Music and Art in Manhattan as music students – so we knew some theory and harmony and had good ears and could figure out the tunes from the radio and records. We taught the keyboard player how to play the songs by (literally) showing him where to put his fingers on the keyboard.

Well, Mr. Berns heard the band play and reported back to the keyboard player’s parents “Get rid of the black guys.”


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## ryst (Sep 9, 2020)

"You should learn music theory".


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## NekujaK (Sep 10, 2020)

"Get a college degree."


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## Drundfunk (Sep 10, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> _There's a lot of people who can do this much better than you can._
> 
> 10-year-old me did *not* need to hear that.


Man this hit too close to home........ In my case it was more like "There are a lot of people who are way more talented than you" (at the same time acknowledging and telling me how talented I am). The damage this is doing to a child..... Now it feels like I'm just trying to catch up.


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## Crowe (Sep 10, 2020)

Drundfunk said:


> Man this hit too close to home........ In my case it was more like "There are a lot of people who are way more talented than you" (at the same time acknowledging and telling me how talented I am). The damage this is doing to a child..... Now it feels like I'm just trying to catch up.



Yeah. That was pretty much exactly how it happened. Only I got perfunctory acknowledgement for my work (basically 'Oh, that's nice') which I could already identify by that time. It's no real wonder I burned myself out trying to disprove the feeling I was left with thereafter. But I got therapy and am better now.

I still suck though \o/.

Edit: I feel I gotta clarify this. This was said by a cousin I really looked up to then about twice my age. I remember myself around that age and I was a smart-ass dumb piece of shit too. Runs in the family. We've both made up for it by becoming much better adults than we ever were teens so we're all good.

However, I think one can take away from this that there's a ridiculous amount of damage that can be done by the people we most look up to and I feel we should remember that. Career advice, no. But life advice, maybe.


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## Greg (Sep 10, 2020)

Honestly? All of it.

Lock yourself in your room and learn to write music that you love. Great music does almost all of the work for you.


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## PerryD (Sep 10, 2020)

_"You can create much more realistic music if you trade your Prophet 5 toward this Proteus Orchestra module_." _"Analog is dead, digital is king."_ I think I eventually sold the Proteus for $100. :/


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## DimensionsTomorrow (Sep 10, 2020)

stixman said:


> Get into library music!



That bad?


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## Daryl (Sep 11, 2020)

DimensionsTomorrow said:


> That bad?


Which is actually funny, because the opposite was the best piece of advice I ever got. Having said that, as others have mentioned, often it's not the advice, but the person it comes from. It's all very well giving advice, but if it is incomplete advice, it can sometimes be worse than not getting any advice.

Library music, for example, is a strange one, because often one sees comments like "you can't make any money from library music" and then in the next sentence "obviously I don't submit my best stuff". Without the second sentence, you could get totally the wrong impression.


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## wst3 (Sep 11, 2020)

MGdepp said:


> “This is the point of being a music professional. You do the work you were hired to do regardless of the viewpoint of the filmmakers.” _(regarding the question, should you score a questionable right-wing propaganda film or generally morally questionable media)_


Wow that's interesting! I've heard the same thing, and honestly it is part of the reason I've never tried to make music the sole source of income. Which is probably a mistake, but one I can live with. I have been offered projects that were "morally questionable" - at least from my perspective. I took the first one (a long time ago) and ended up doing a pretty crappy job of it. The producer didn't care and so they used it, but they did not publish my name. To this day I'm not sure what bothered me more - that I did a horrible job or the material<G>.


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## wst3 (Sep 11, 2020)

And one more vote for parental advice. I know they try, but dang, sometimes they get it so wrong!

I graduated from high school in the late 1970s, in a household that was middle class, moderate to liberal politically, and very much concerned about their children's futures.

My parents believed that music was a fad, a kids thing, and strongly encouraged me to go straight to college. They didn't even do the bit about have a backup plan, or you can always do music for fun. Nope... straight to college.

They were wrong, as it turns out. Music really is central to my being. It has been part of my life for as long as I can remember, and will, I hope, remain that way till I die. I have been able to "support my habit" through music, which helps, but mostly I just enjoy making music.

Fortunately I also enjoy the technology, and I've been able to support myself that way. Never too far from the music, but mostly earning a decent paycheck (well, except since March, but that is a different story.)

The other part they got wrong was going straight to college. I would have benefited so much from a year or two off, working or even joining the armed forces. I had no idea what I wanted to do as a college freshman. Also a topic for another day.

Still, the worst advice I received was from my own loving, well meaning parents.

Oddly enough I am happy with the way things turned out. No complaints, no regrets even, but every once in a while some curiosity about the path I did not take.


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## BradHoyt (Sep 11, 2020)

method1 said:


> "Jazz harmonica is gonna be the next big thing!"


You have a problem with jazz harmonica? lol


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## method1 (Sep 11, 2020)

BradHoyt said:


> You have a problem with jazz harmonica? lol




Actually no! 
I grey up listening to Toots Thielemans & Max Geldray on the Goon Show


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## BradHoyt (Sep 11, 2020)

method1 said:


> Actually no!
> I grey up listening to Toots Thielemans & Max Geldray on the Goon Show


Was kidding... just took advantage of the opportunity to post a recording of Howard Levy playing on a piece we recorded a few years ago, which doesn't come around too often.


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## musicalweather (Sep 11, 2020)

A friend urged me to confront the film director who was dragging his feet in paying me. The result: the confrontation with him (over the phone) turned into WW III. I"m not sure what _good_ advice would be that situation. But this was definitely _bad _advice. 
And one for sh*tty, discouraging things people have said to me: when I was in music school at a university, my _female_ piano teacher said to me, "Piano is really a _man's_ instrument, isn't it?" Relieved to say that she no longer teaches there.


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## Stephen Limbaugh (Sep 15, 2020)

On parental advice, fathers, etc...

Reposting this article written by Dave Grohl from the General Discussion forum. This is a common experience among many musicians/artists.









How Far Does the Apple Fall From the Tree?


In my case, it ripped off the branch and rolled all the way down the hill.




www.theatlantic.com


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## MGdepp (Sep 15, 2020)

wst3 said:


> Wow that's interesting! I've heard the same thing, and honestly it is part of the reason I've never tried to make music the sole source of income. Which is probably a mistake, but one I can live with. I have been offered projects that were "morally questionable" - at least from my perspective. I took the first one (a long time ago) and ended up doing a pretty crappy job of it. The producer didn't care and so they used it, but they did not publish my name. To this day I'm not sure what bothered me more - that I did a horrible job or the material<G>.


All I can tell you is ... you might be amazed whom I quoted!  My only hint will be ... don't look to far ...


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## chocobitz825 (Sep 15, 2020)

worst advice?

"get into the lucrative career of music! its practically raining money!"


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## Jeremy Spencer (Sep 16, 2020)

musicalweather said:


> A friend urged me to confront the film director who was dragging his feet in paying me. The result: the confrontation with him (over the phone) turned into WW III.



I've got to ask....did you get the money?


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## Gablux (Sep 16, 2020)

"To survive in Los Angeles you will need funds to cover you for at least 5 years"
I got work here after 1 month. Thank you frustrated composer, you made me stronger.


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## musicalweather (Sep 16, 2020)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I've got to ask....did you get the money?


Nope. That was my only experience of a director making off without paying me what was due. A right of passage, I guess? Hoping that it will remain as the only experience of getting ripped off.


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## RZEE (Sep 16, 2020)

I agree that "get a college degree" was some bad advise, at least for me. I have a BS in BS , so it was more a waste of my time and money.

Another is "do what you love", which doesn't necessarily pay the bills and put food on the table.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 16, 2020)

Almost all advice is annoying, and it's almost always unsolicited (you're asking for work, not advice!).

And "that's a tough business" is certainly the most chafing.

Do you actually think I don't know that?!


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## Tice (Sep 16, 2020)

"Why don't you try doing something a little more 'normal' and attainable?"


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## Haakond (Sep 16, 2020)

"A song can only be called a song once it has been written down on a sheet. Otherwise its not a song"


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## outland (Sep 16, 2020)

Absolute worst advice: "If you're going to be a professional saxophonist, you definitely need to also play clarinet. You must be able to play polkas at weddings and that's the instrument for it". I told the first person who suggested this that I would rather die than play clarinet _or_ polkas. This advice about clarinet playing actually came from several other quarters as well and finally came to its apex in my life at North Texas State University where I was forced to take clarinet lessons alongside classical saxophone lessons. These last were with a TA that I actually beat in tryouts for the Lab Bands (he placed four bands underneath me: no joke. I left North Texas after 1.5 years to go on the road with Stan Kenton. Stan despised the clarinet and I never played it with him). I have played many types of gigs including thousands of weddings and have been asked to play clarinet a total of five times. I've actually been asked about playing oboe five times as well, but strangely, no one ever told me it was imperative that I played that instrument; I'm guessing that oboe isn't a big polka instrument. I've played flute as a double on most of the gigs I played. It's not a big polka instrument either. 

Second worst piece of advice: "No, playing piano isn't that important. Don't worry about it".


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## outland (Sep 16, 2020)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> "Learn to make good coffee".



Boy, and here I was thinking that was some of the most practical advice I'd ever heard.


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 16, 2020)

you should just play clarinet because it's rad.


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## Jazzaria (Sep 16, 2020)

ProfoundSilence said:


> you should just play clarinet because it's rad.



Speaking as a clarinetist (who then went on to pick up sax+flute) I of course agree 

But more practically, I do think it's odd to really push gigging sax players to pick up clarinet. You can generally tell that it's not their main horn. Learning clarinet first, classically (which means no vibrato), gives a very different approach (and conversely, pro sax players can no doubt tell that I play sax differently). Of course the audience may not care  but it does seem odd to force people to go a direction they don't want to.

And I've not been called on to play polka either  I'd say dixie and klezmer are the two clarinet-specific may-have-gigs genres that really mandate it. It is of course a wonderful expressive instrument in any genre IMO, but in terms of gigs it probably hasn't _really_ been popular for a number of decades (and educational institutions tend to lag - which is a good thing as well as a bad thing, but is definitely a thing).


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## ProfoundSilence (Sep 16, 2020)

well nostalgia is always popular, just need the right flavor to be popular


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## Akarin (Sep 17, 2020)

Probably this:


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## DSmolken (Sep 17, 2020)

My grandfather though I should learn to play music, because if there's a drought and the crops fail, I'll always be able to earn a living playing guitar on trains etc. Maybe the precise details didn't work out, but hey... at least he didn't take anything for granted.


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## Kent (Sep 17, 2020)

Akarin said:


> Probably this:


229 streams gets you a dollar?? Sign me up


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## reutunes (Sep 18, 2020)

So weird, as I've just done a video on this very subject...


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## Matt Damon (Sep 18, 2020)

"You should take 'The Great Wall' role".


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## Jazzaria (Sep 19, 2020)

kmaster said:


> 229 streams gets you a dollar?? Sign me up











Spotify Celebrates 100th Dollar Given To Artists


NEW YORK—Proudly declaring that they never thought they’d see the day their vision would finally be realized, streaming service Spotify reportedly celebrated Thursday the platform’s 100th dollar given to artists. “When we launched Spotify in 2008, our mission was to reward artists when customers...




www.theonion.com


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