# You guys deliver your stems WITH or WITHOUT reverb?



## spiralbill (Aug 3, 2014)

Since delivering stems (rather than just a full mix, which we always have reverb on) is a process that gives more flexibility to the engineer or re-recording mixer, does giving them stems with reverb (which is what I'm doing) sort of terminates that function? Or no? 

Let's say that we don't have a score mixer and we have to do it all ourselves. I'm curious to see how you guys do it!

Thanks,
Bill


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## wst3 (Aug 3, 2014)

I've been on both sides of the hand-off, and I have found that providing both makes the mixer's job a lot easier.

The stems with reverb applied can, at the very least, provide them with an idea of how you envision the end result. Sometimes they may use them.

Stems without reverb let them add or lessen the reverb easily if they need to do so, and, sometimes they have cooler reverbs than we do<G>!

Same goes for collaboration for individual tracks. I always deliver a dry track along with one or more effected tracks.

Once upon a time this would have been unwieldy, but these days I think all but the largest of projects could work.


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## gsilbers (Aug 3, 2014)

ask the re-recording mixer what does he prefer. 
some really dont care and use mostly the final mix. and will use stems only if one of the producers says something. 
others get nick picky and want a lot flexibility. 

maybe a compromise and have just a tad of reverb to "glue" the stems and leave out long tail verbs. or print out the long reverb on its own track. 
but asking and asking correctly goes a long way imo.


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## jeffc (Aug 3, 2014)

I couldn't ever imagine delivering without verb. You deliver a final mix to the dub - if verb is part of your mix then your stems have verb. The stems should sound exactly like the stereo mix, meaning if you mute the stereo and go to stems, they should match up exactly. 

A rerecording mixer's job isn't to mix your music. Their job is to fine tune the blending of all the elements - music, sfx, dialogue in the best way possible. Sure there are always situations that arise where they need to get creative and help what's not necessarily there, such as a cue end may be noticeable so they'll add a touch of additional verb to help it out, but that's the extent of what they do. 

So, anyway, that's been my experience in both film and TV. 

J


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## Mark III (Aug 3, 2014)

If I'm providing stems, it's with all fx on no question! ..as that's how I want it to sound, the stems do provide some flexibility anyway ..so I wouldn't ever go there personally.


cheers.


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## RiffWraith (Aug 3, 2014)

gsilbers @ Mon Aug 04 said:


> ask the re-recording mixer what does he prefer.



That ^



jeffc @ Mon Aug 04 said:


> I couldn't ever imagine delivering without verb. You deliver a final mix to the dub - if verb is part of your mix then your stems have verb.



That ^ too.



jeffc @ Mon Aug 04 said:


> The stems should sound exactly like the stereo mix, meaning if you mute the stereo and go to stems, they should match up exactly.



Well, not necessarily all the time. I guess it depends on how you mix. My final mix includes a slight bit of reverb, and also compression that is not part of the stems. So the stems aren't identical tot he final mix - but they are really, really close. 

Again, before you start doing anything, it's best to talk to the re-recording eng., and/or the supervising sound ed. (if one exists on the film you are doing) to find out what they will be expecting from you.

Cheers.


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## pkm (Aug 3, 2014)

I deliver to the music mixer (if there is one) without reverb and to the rerecording engineer on the dub stage with reverb. No exceptions so far...


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## JohnG (Aug 3, 2014)

For a movie or TV, frankly, I work pretty hard to get the music the way I think it supports the picture, so I am reluctant to provide dry stems and hope the dubbing mixer has the time (and remembers before you're in the third reel already) to turn on reverb.

It's not that I don't trust them -- it's just that they have 1,000 things going on and the last thing I want is to have to bug them (if I'm even there) about whether and what reverb and is it panned or muted and what pre-delay and EQ etc. etc.

If it were some Major Motion Picture, that would be another matter and it would depend on a million things. And for trailer music when they are adding live orchestra of course that does have to be dry because it's not really stems, it's elements for a later mix.

But most of the time I don't want to give over so much "flexibility" that I create spaghetti for the dub guys.


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## spiralbill (Aug 3, 2014)

Wow guys! Really appreciate all your good replies. 
I've always been delivering them with reverb and nobody seems to say anything. That's why I'm asking if I've been doing it wrong or not (I mean, it's not wrong really. Just that I'm curious what's better).

And clearly, my reasons for delivering stems with reverb seem to match all of you guys here. I think that the amount of reverb that I use matches what the picture is calling for so it makes sense that it's me making that decision not the mixer. But yes! I better start talking to mixers/editors if the project has one from now on!

Thanks guys!


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## Daryl (Aug 4, 2014)

I always deliver stems with reverb. Reverb is as much a part of the sound as anything else, so I want to be in control of that.

D


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## Waywyn (Aug 4, 2014)

spiralbill @ Sun Aug 03 said:


> Since delivering stems (rather than just a full mix, which we always have reverb on) is a process that gives more flexibility to the engineer or re-recording mixer, does giving them stems with reverb (which is what I'm doing) sort of terminates that function? Or no?
> 
> Let's say that we don't have a score mixer and we have to do it all ourselves. I'm curious to see how you guys do it!
> 
> ...



I would always suggest a little phone call!


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## AC986 (Aug 4, 2014)

Daryl @ Mon Aug 04 said:


> I always deliver stems with reverb. Reverb is as much a part of the sound as anything else, so I want to be in control of that.
> 
> D



Yes.

Although I get asked for dry stems.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Aug 4, 2014)

I would agree with jeffc regarding sending stems with verb that matches the stereo mix. I am curious how he does this if his stereo mix has any kind of mastering "finish" applied. How do you add that to all of the stems separately? This has always been the burning question for me.

Mr A


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## jeffc (Aug 4, 2014)

Mr. Anxiety @ Mon Aug 04 said:


> I would agree with jeffc regarding sending stems with verb that matches the stereo mix. I am curious how he does this if his stereo mix has any kind of mastering "finish" applied. How do you add that to all of the stems separately? This has always been the burning question for me.
> 
> Mr A



Hey - 

re: stems and mastering. 

I realized a while ago that squashing your stereo master for a film/tv mix is almost counter productive, because it will just get buried. So I've setup my routing such that there is comp/eq/limiting on each stem but nothing on the stereo sum. The stereo is just a sum of the stems (with their processing). Because if they need to go to stems on a cue but the mix just falls apart because it's minus the stereo buss processing, then it almost creates more work for them. So if they match, then it's easy to go to stems, remove the offending element, and the rest of everything sounds exactly the same. 

Sure, you might not get the level up to a mastered CD but for a dub, that's not really important. And I've found having a bit of dynamics actually make things sound much better. I've had some pro mixers mix some films for me, and they do the same, kind of where I picked it up. It's not about maximizing the level, it's getting a decent level with dynamics. And it's taken me a while to realize that that doesn't mean slamming everything with Ozone and stuff like that and making a square wave.


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## Mr. Anxiety (Aug 4, 2014)

This makes sense Jeff, for sure. In my case, I'm adding color and analog style punch to my stereo mix, more than just adding level. Adding these to the stems separately do a somewhat different thing, IMO, and when summed to stereo, create a different mix. I guess it is also very dependent of the style of music. Doing a big band animation project benefited from the stereo mix being "tweeked", not the stems.

Horses for courses, right?

Thx,

Mr A


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