# Short trailer music (sm brass)



## Grim_Universe (Jun 19, 2016)

Hi  I just finished "trailer-style" mockup with dark harmonies and really heavy brass including SM, 2C B2, Altiverb and some time to properly orchestrate things.
Latest version with only SM


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## BenG (Jun 19, 2016)

Firstly, I think the composition is great and was pleasantly surprised after expecting yet another "trailer style" piece.

That being said, I think there's something that is causing an issue with your overall mix. Overall, it lacks clarity and find it rather thin or missing depth. Additionally, there seems to be a large hiss/feedback that may be too prominent. The high strings do sound a bit far as well, though it is difficult to tell with the other aforementioned problems. 

What does your mastering chain look like?


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## Grim_Universe (Jun 19, 2016)

@BenG
First of all, thanks for your feedback!
To be honest i thought that hiss can be a good idea to make things sound realistic. Why? Because on our subconscious level we compare the volume of our instruments to the hiss volume and therefore we can say, that our instruments play loud\quiet and so on. Too bad my expirement failed  You are right about the strings - i have already corrected this problem. But if we are talking about clarity, i can't agree. The main idea of mix (if i may say so) was to save the feeling of clarity.
My chain looks like:
a) Composing in the first project.
b) Exporting .wav to the mixing project with EQ and 2C B2. In this project i make proper ER\Reverb settings of my instruments.
c) Exporting .wav with 2C B2 (it takes a really long time) to another mixing project with VSS to make proper panning and some stereo narrowing.
That's it. On master channel i have Izotope Ozone and tape machine emulator.
*upd: uploaded new version to soundcloud*


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## RiffWraith (Jun 19, 2016)

Hi. This isn't bad, but it's not "trailer-style".

The overall sound is a bit muddy. Partly due to mixing, and partly due to orchestration, it would seem.

And I am sorry, but the brass just does not sound good at all. I may get railed for this, and that's just fine b/c I really do not care a lick, but every time I hear SM brass used in an orchestral work it sounds like dog poop. I just don't get why people keep saying "get SM brass!!!" to everyone who requests an orchestral brass recommendation. _It just doesn't work_. Is it good for other things? Heck yeah. But unaccompanied in an orchestral context? Absolutely no way.

Also, I would lose the VSS if I were you, at least for the time being. It's doing something funky to the mix that is far from pleasurable.

Bottom line here, is you have some good ideas, and if I were you, I'd keep working on them, and try to develop them more, and your mixing chops as well. Take a listen to other orchestral works - specifically, those you are trying to emulate - and do a comparison to your work. Try and see what you are missing, and add some of those elements to your work. It's one of the many good ways to improve.

Cheers.


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## BenG (Jun 19, 2016)

I think it was a great idea to add the hiss but the key is moderation and to not overdo it 

In any case, the new version is definitely a lot better and allows me to hear exactly what's going on in your mix. It is still a bit 'wet' for my test and shortening the tail may help. 

Again though, I really enjoyed the composition/writing!


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## Grim_Universe (Jun 20, 2016)

@RiffWraith Hi. I think you're actually right about SM. It is so hard to make it sound proper. Another day i'm asking myself: "why would i do that?". But i just can't stop without reaching a good result. It's much easier to use libraries like the CineSamples (and now i think layering is the only way to "sample composing"). But this is not only SM problem - this is my problem too. I tried many methods about SM:
1) AltiVerb. It's cool to imitate kind of "old-style" recordings with its coloring dry sound function. But this is really not the way, as we process recorded samples with dry coloring, which can be really destructive to tembre. If we don't wan't to use dry coloring - heh, actual ER\Reverb are good, but they can't make the SM to have proper sound.
2) 2CB2 can potentially make reaaaally cool ER, but you just can't hear it in terms of the mix! Solo trumpets sound really good, but as we turn on all orchestra, early reflections become muddy and not really clear. ****!
I was sure that i can get a proper sound, but my expectations were in vain. The only way is layering.
Thanks about your feedback, it really helped me. After some testings i know that VSS can be a very bad influence on the quality of the mix.
@BenG Thank you, it is really good to hear a relevant criticism and an appropriate praise. Thanks again!


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## tack (Jun 20, 2016)

RiffWraith said:


> I just don't get why people keep saying "get SM brass!!!" to everyone who requests an orchestral brass recommendation. _It just doesn't work_. Is it good for other things? Heck yeah. But unaccompanied in an orchestral context? Absolutely no way.


It's not easy to make it sit well. And even in the best of times, it's not quite right. But when you want that singing lyrical horn line, say, I haven't heard anything else that remotely competes with the expressiveness.

So on balance, factoring both sound and feel, SM with proper treatment is still the least of the available evils, in my opinion.

For solo lines, that is. I don't think I'd use it exclusively. Especially for a full brass ensemble passage, I feel like you still need something like BML or CB.


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## Daryl (Jun 20, 2016)

RiffWraith said:


> And I am sorry, but the brass just does not sound good at all. I may get railed for this, and that's just fine b/c I really do not care a lick, but every time I hear SM brass used in an orchestral work it sounds like dog poop. I just don't get why people keep saying "get SM brass!!!" to everyone who requests an orchestral brass recommendation. _It just doesn't work_. Is it good for other things? Heck yeah. But unaccompanied in an orchestral context? Absolutely no way.


You're entitled to your opinion. However, what you also have to realise is that most of the time people use it orchestral, and it doesn't work is for two reasons:

The track is not orchestrated as an orchestral track, and this is particularly true for trailer type tracks.
The user doesn't have either the performance or mixing skills required.


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## Fer (Jun 21, 2016)

Wooooh! i really liked your track! very powerful writting. Cannot comment now about the mix. But the music is great, and btw, the pic you used for the souncloud track is very cool


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## Grim_Universe (Jun 21, 2016)

Fer said:


> Wooooh! i really liked your track! very powerful writting. Cannot comment now about the mix. But the music is great, and btw, the pic you used for the souncloud track is very cool


Thanks a lot


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## Grim_Universe (Jul 5, 2016)

Major update. It seems i finally understood how to use SM in orchestral context.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3KJySRQqkz6TFlObWgwVmEtNUU/view?usp=sharing
More pronounced attack:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3KJySRQqkz6Mm5rMUFkVWx3M3M/view?usp=sharing
I was really sceptical about mixing different types of brass (such as CineSamples and SM brass, for instance), but I decided to give it a chance. We all know, that SM sound really cool in the pp-mf range. But when it comes to f+ range, SM Brass start to be really anoying to our ears. So how can we solve this problem?
a) We can cut high freq to make SM softer even in forte+ range.
b) We can use Altiverb's dry signal coloring.
c) We can use 2C B2 signal coloring.
d) We can use other libraries with nice high end to make layers.
So my idea was really simple: to make SM high end as soft as possible with 2C B2 coloring + EQ, and then mix it with CineSamples to have a nice high end "air" freq.
I believe HeadShot did the same thing with his trailer to make brass sound like a real thing.


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## Rodney Money (Jul 5, 2016)

I would've loved to hear more power and bite in the low brass bass region and actually more pronounce attack with a bit more power and bite in the shorter articulations of the high brass (btw did you use tuba, bass trombone, or cimbasso?) It almost sounded a little too conservative where I would have liked for you to cut loose a little and earn that choir entrance like the mothership just landed for our doom.


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