# This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine? [further revised tune]



## noiseboyuk (Jul 31, 2011)

Ever had this dilemma? A few weeks ago I woke up from a terribly sad dream (about NASA closing down, for what its worth) and the dream had this track as its soundtrack. As soon as I got up I put down a quick piano sketch so I didn't forget it... we all know what dreams are like. I've driven myself half mad wondering if its original or if my subconscious has ripped it off somewhere, so I'm kind of dreading the "er, Guy, this is obviously just xxx" reply, but phew it has to be done.

It's not left my head in three weeks. My music DAW's been effectively out of action in this time (long boring dubbing-related story) so yesterday was the first chance I had to record it properly. It's a sort of hymn-like patriotic type thing, I've not made any attempt to turn it into something more conventionally filmy or anything, and it's a balls-out unashamed big ol' emotional thing. This is just what I heard in my head, and the arrangement was pretty much there too. FWIW, the part of the melody I had in the dream first appears from 31 - 60s, the first part of the tune came later when just wandering around going to the shops etc... again, it fixed very firmly though as if I might have ripped that off too.

So with trepidation here it is:

http://www.box.net/shared/qd6ptiybl1b5m8tu3hmb

EDIT 1 - (not well received minor tweek to first part of the tune here and reduced huge dynamic range - http://www.box.net/shared/hcvy85ggdv8xkku6ueku)

EDIT 2 - hopefully more natural "final" version here http://www.box.net/shared/pus7k10hazfq30jhczeh


----------



## Daniel (Jul 31, 2011)

nice track Guy....is it CineBrass & LASS? I knew the woodwinds is VSL (I think I have to own single woodwinds from VSL or maybe waiting for LASW he he)..at the end at glance at 2:33 woodwinds-- I like it if more "in your face" volume, but just my opinion.

Best,


----------



## Henning (Jul 31, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine?*

Hey Guy,

I heard the beginning of "the minstrel boy" in some phrases. But this is such an old folk song that it should not be problematic 

All the best,

Henning


----------



## ChrisAxia (Jul 31, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine?*

Hey Guy,

Nice work, though the first part is very similar to one of Horner's themes from "Titanic". Your next 'dream' theme starts off like a part of Trevor Jones "Last of the Mohicans" score, but goes into a very familiar phrase from a song, but can't remember which one! I think you're OK with the 'dream' part because it's a 'mixture' of two short themes, but I'd be more worried about the opening "Titanic" section.

~C


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Jul 31, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine?*

Yup. Titanic


----------



## BoulderBrow (Jul 31, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine?*

What part of Titanic does it sound like? If it's just the first 3 notes of the main theme, then it's just the first 3 notes of the major scale, so no biggie. 

Probably 'fits' into the mould of a lot of James Horner tunes/ folk songs e.g the aforementioned Minstrel Boy, Danny Boy, even hints of the littlest hobo theme song! But they are just that; hints - and not a bad thing to have in anycase.

Definately got the emotion/patriotic vibe - nice :D


----------



## Mahlon (Jul 31, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine?*

Doesn't really remind me of _Titanic_. Very nice build up, and I love the stuttering violins in the big sections.

EDIT: I just listened to it again, and I _really_ like those stammering strings. Music is alive and at it's best when the isntruments speak to each other like characters on stage. I always think of musical lines as these strange etherial beings talking to each other in the aural cosmos. I think you've kind of gotten that here with that particular -- is it too much to call it -- motive. It's special and is a little living character, that part.

Mahlon


----------



## ChrisAxia (Jul 31, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine?*

Actually, it's 8 notes in a row! Sorry Guy. It really is too similar. 

~c


----------



## ChrisAxia (Jul 31, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine?*

Just to be clear. Not the main theme of course. One of the incidental themes. 

~C


----------



## dannthr (Jul 31, 2011)

An inversion of one or two of the notes in the melody would fix the similarities--continue to develop it!


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jul 31, 2011)

Wow, gazillions of replies, thanks all!

OK, Minstrel Boy - I can't hear this at all, I do know the song. I've checked The Corrs' version, and I just can't hear any real similarities beyond "it's a bit folksy"!

Titanic - I think I found the bit you mean on Spotify. So just to check - Take Her To Sea Mr Murdoch @2m13s? Now that's a tricky one. I don't really know it as a piece of music, but I've seen the film a few times, so it could have subconsciously gone in. And you're right Chris - first 8 notes the same, but certainly in that piece the feel of it does seem very different, it obviously then goes in a totally different direction. As Dan said, probably just one inversion would put any worries to rest.

See in my head I was half expecting the complete tune somewhere... it felt like a lift it was so "familiar".

Anyway, lots of kind words so thanks to all! Mahlon, yeah I like that bit too, it was very clear in my head... actually I toned it down a bit, it was more of a straight ostinato originally but I only had half the phrase spiccs in the end, it seemed more effective. Daniel - good spots all round, it's LASS FC, some Sordinos, some Lite, CineBrass and some extra strings and brass from Symphobia.


----------



## mducharme (Jul 31, 2011)

I've heard this before - I don't remember where! I was thinking "a bug's life" by Randy Newman but that isn't quite it. Whatever it is, I think you have it almost exactly. I think it is from one of the Pixar animated films, if that helps to narrow things down. It was a very classic Copland-inspired Americana arrangement with trumpet, imitating a Western or something...


----------



## Mahlon (Jul 31, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine?*

You show a lot of gusto and passion in your music. o-[][]-o

Mahlon


----------



## mac4d (Jul 31, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine?*

The first phrase is the hook from the song _Have I Told You Lately That I Love You_ - Rod Stewart (tho I think Rod puts the 4th note one beat later). Then you branch off from there to other stuff.

The end phrase sounds familiar too (also at 53 sec in, and 1:58 ). Reminds me of the line "in that great somewhere out there" from _Somewhere Out There_ song. But your pick-up notes is different.

At 30 sec in, initial 2 phrases sounds familiar too, I think it's similar to _Shenandoah_ phrase "Away you rolling river" but not exact.

Nice work anyway.


----------



## Mike Greene (Jul 31, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine?*

I wouldn't worry about this one. Sure, eight notes might seem like a lot, but I'll bet there are half a dozen other songs (or cues) out there that use those exact notes. It's just the way it is. "There are only 12 tones in the scale" and all that.

Unless you're writing complex bebop melodies, it's basically impossible to write a pleasing melodic phrase that has *never* been done before. All you're going to accomplish by trying to make it more "original" is make a weaker melody, because it will be less natural.

With that said, I might still take a stab at modifying the melody a bit, just because. But if the change doesn't sound AT LEAST as good as what you've already got, then stick to the original. Unless you're intentionally using this cue in a high profile Titanic parody, nobody ever gets sued over stuff like this, because Horner and Newman and Stewart have all heard the exact same thing ("Golly James, you know those first few notes are exactly the same as . . . ") themselves many, many times for their own melodies.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jul 31, 2011)

Well whaddaya you?! Mac4d - the Rod Stewart track is very similar to the Titanic one, it's the same 8 notes except subtly different. It has to be said that after those notes it is more similar to mine than Titanic is. Of course, the inescapable thought is that Horner ripped off Rod Stewart as much or as little as I did! And Mike, point taken - if you look closely enough I guess everything is lifted from somewhere.

The Rod track is vaguely familiar, I must have heart this over the years, I think it's more likely that this entered my subconscious than Titanic. I'll have a go at a very minor change / inversion.... you're right Mike that it might make it weaker but I think I have an idea that might work with it.

As for the dream part of the song... Somewhere Our There. There's a Linda Rondstadt song which isn't anything like it.... is there another artist I don't know?

This thread now has 470 views, now not every person will have listened, but I'm thinking that if that dream part in particular was a lift someone would have spotted it by now. I do think that any good new tune (if I may flatter my own subconscious) will inevitably sound familiar... you get this feeling that "someone MUST have done that already", just the same that a simple but great simple idea for a film has the same effect that someone must have thought of it before. It's amazing that any new tunes exist at all.

Again, must say thanks to everyone for chipping in, it's incredibly useful.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Jul 31, 2011)

OK, here's v2 with a slightly tweeked tune for the first part to keep that pesky Rod Stewart off me back (and tweeked again for the clarinet variation later)

http://www.box.net/shared/hcvy85ggdv8xkku6ueku

I think I fancy doing a longer version with a C tune at some point.

EDIT - reduced the dynamic range too.


----------



## mac4d (Jul 31, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine?*

It's funny. I found a bunch of youtube versions of Somewhere Out There, and they all sing the phrase as I remember it, differently! James Ingram comes closest, but soul singer that he is, he's loose with the time. I have sheet music buried away somewhere, but never mind. Your ending phrase just reminded me of how I remembered, or thought I remembered, how it went...

A2 C3 | F-- E-- D C A2 C3 | C

but no, it's not the same. I wouldn't worry about it anyway. Just the Rod Stewart tune, and you seem to have a plan for that, so happy rewriting! [EDIT: I see now you already did it!]


----------



## TheUnfinished (Aug 1, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine? [revised tune]*

It's a nice tune Guy, certainly. It does have a lot of "Surely I've heard that somewhere before" moments, but not anything that I feel I can particularly nail down as a lift.[/url]

One thing that did strike me was a couple of moments where your main melody is quite similar to the main melody form http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9orWFAbOOOk (this song) from Harry Gregson-Williams' score for Veronica Guerin (comes in about a minute in).

But, when I first heard HG-W's track, I thought "That sounds familiar" too!

Cheers,
Matt


----------



## noiseboyuk (Aug 1, 2011)

Hi Matt, cheers! Definitely never that one before - not seen the film or heard the score - 4 notes the same and the first two chords.... similar but I think not similar enough, phew. Honestly (and I know I would say this) I prefer my subconscious' tune to this one! It's a funny old thing... that tune was so fixed in my brain when I woke up, every note in place, I'm still expecting to hear The Tune itself somewhere or else I think it's just coincidence... I'm sure there must be dozens of similar tunes that share a few notes and a bit of the chord progression (the chords are very simple).

Incidentally, forgot to say for anyone interested in such things this is the first time I've used Emotional Piano in a track, mostly in the quiet - mid velocity range. I love it, I think this'll be the one I use for pretty much everything, it has a terrific range on it. When you really bash it its got plenty of bite if you need some. Wonder what differences 2.0 will bring... not sure it needs much tweeking to be honest!


----------



## rayinstirling (Aug 1, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine? [revised tune]*

Following reading the mail here, I'm struggling to work out what Rod Stewart has to do with anything? so in such company perhaps I should make no other comment.
Rest easy.


----------



## mducharme (Aug 1, 2011)

Perhaps I was imagining the similarity before actually. Anyhow, the old one was very nice melodically, even though the first several notes did sound like Titanic, it probably also sounded a lot like Bach chorales (and Lutheran chorales in general) which tend to have the same overall stepwise motion with leaps to other members of the tonic triad. The melody has become a bit too skippy in the revised version.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Aug 1, 2011)

I'd be interested in any other before / after melody comments... I kinda like the new one, but you may be right and I should just say "sod it" to Mr Stewart and Mr Horner! FWIW I've tweeked v2 to reduce the dymanic range - it's lovely on big loud speakers and all, but in the real world I think it's just annoying.


----------



## mducharme (Aug 1, 2011)

Right now your revised melody goes:

C-D-E---G---F-G-E-C-A-C

have you considered perhaps as a compromise:
C-D-E---G---F-E-C-G-A-C


----------



## handz (Aug 1, 2011)

Nice piece, sounds lot chamber like I would preffer more mellow sound, the melody around 00:30 is definitely Sting´s Fields of Gold lilke


----------



## Mike Greene (Aug 1, 2011)

noiseboyuk @ Mon Aug 01 said:


> I'd be interested in any other before / after melody comments...


Your first melody is definitely better. I wouldn't mess with it.


----------



## noiseboyuk (Aug 2, 2011)

Hmm, that's a nice progression Michael! Might try that later... v2 seems to get the thumbs down, so fair enough!


----------



## noiseboyuk (Aug 3, 2011)

*Re: This one arrived in a dream... is it really mine? [revised tune]*

OK, this is the "try everyone's patience with a third version" version. Michael, that was a good steer - I actually only used your suggested tweek once, in the 3rd bar of the phrase I actually liked what I was moving towards in v2 (so it becomes a call and response sorta) and the clarinet reprise felt like it needed a minor tweak too. That all makes it sound very bitty, but it seems to flow naturally like this (well, now probably entering the "going blind" phase of course).

Have also made a few mix / mastering tweeks. I've made the clarinet player stand up and take a frickin' bow, pushed back those lovely strings just a tad to make them sit less proud, and the dynamic range sounds about right now (FWIW I did this all manually not using any process at all, partly within the session but mostly with the main mix wav using Adobe Audition which was really effective).

Have to say I'm pretty pleased with this - it is what it is, bold patriotic and folksy. After 200 listens or so from VI-Cers, nothing appears to be a rip off, and any unintentional similarity is tweaked away. I actually prefer this version to v1 partly cos the tune seems to flow with a little more interest but mostly cos I now don't hear Rod Stewart's voice in my head after it had been pointed out, surely a good thing. I'm hoping later this month to get a real violin to play the lead and I'll post that as and when its done, otherwise I'll stop bothering you all with new versions. Thanks a million for all the comments and suggestions, all invaluable stuff.

Home Fires v3 - http://www.box.net/shared/pus7k10hazfq30jhczeh

PS - I've called this Home Fires, but I keep misreading it as Home Fries, which just keeps making me hungry.


----------

