# Upgrading from Windows 7 to 10



## Exitmusicthis2 (Aug 12, 2019)

Hey all,

I know l'm probably a little late to talk about this and apologizes if this has already been discussed.
I'm currently running a great machine, Cubase 8.5 tons of software and hundreds of Gigs of sample libraries.
It's a great setup and l've had no real problems.

Obviously l do regular backups, but would anyone consider downloading windows 10 and installing it
on a machine like this? Are there any issues to be wary of?

Thanks in advance for any replies!


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## DynamicK (Aug 13, 2019)

If it's not broken, why try to fix it? I've just bought a new laptop that came with Win 10 installed. It takes double the time to boot ( Win 7 ), even when I turn off my router.


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## Shredoverdrive (Aug 13, 2019)

DynamicK said:


> If it's not broken, why try to fix it?


Because Microsoft will drop support for Win 7 in January 2020, I guess. I'm still on Win 7 myself and really not in a hurry to shift to Win 10 but time is running out...


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## YaniDee (Aug 13, 2019)

Shredoverdrive said:


> Microsoft will drop support for Win 7 in January 2020


It doesn't mean your computer will stop working the next day! I have an old (not my main) computer running Vista, and it still works. If there's ever a critical security flaw, they still will release a patch for older versions. I'm in no rush to move on from Win 7..


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## Ben (Aug 13, 2019)

YaniDee said:


> If there's ever a critical security flaw, they still will release a patch for older versions.


This is not correct. They have done that a few times in the past for some zero-day exploits on XP. But they are no longer obligated to do so and it is lass likely that they will do so again for most issues. Running XP on a manchine with direct or indirect internet-connetion is like steering a ship in direction of an iceberg and hope for the best. Running Win7 after January 2020 is the same story.

In my experience Win10 is faster and more reliable then the older OS. It has better support for newer hardware and is optimized to run on SSDs.



Exitmusicthis2 said:


> would anyone consider downloading windows 10 and installing it on a machine like this


I would add an additional harddrive to your system and install a clean copy of Windows 10 on it. You can install and test all your software while your old working OS is just a reboot away. I would not upgrade the current Win7 installation, because it is likely that you have to re-install a lot of the programs to get them running anyway and you will get a fresh system.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 13, 2019)

The big problem is if your computer is older, there may not be Win 10 drivers. I recently upgraded to a new machine with 10 because I was able to get a deal on version with 64 GB RAM. My 7 computer isn't that old but I will use it to replace a desktop that is 10 years old. It took me forever to move it all and then some companies gave me a hassle because I had too many licences in use. I haven't erased the 7 yet, I'm going to make an image before I do. 

I think if you update in place, most things should work. I think I am running Cubase 10 in a compatibility mode for Windows 8, so you may have to run 8.5 in compatibility mode.


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## kitekrazy (Aug 13, 2019)

Don't do a clean install. Any hardware that doesn't have W10 drivers will use W7 drivers. I'm sure if I did a clean install I would have issues getting my FW410 to work. I'm running a lot of legacy hardware on W10.


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## Exitmusicthis2 (Aug 13, 2019)

Thanks everyone my machine is a i7 4930k, 64 GB ram it's about 5 years old, was thinking of purchasing a new machine and then maybe use the i7 as a slave machine.

Whats peoples thoughts on how long software companies will support win7?


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 13, 2019)

Exitmusicthis2 said:


> It's a great setup and l've had no real problems.



Then my suggestion is that you put on a cap backward, download a screenshot of the device manager from a computer that says "gaming" on every single component, and pretend that screenshot is from your current machine.

The effect will be identical to having paid a lot of money for a new computer, and you'll have more money in your wallet.


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## DavidY (Aug 13, 2019)

Ben said:


> This is not correct. They have done that a few times in the past for some zero-day exploits on XP. But they are no longer obligated to do so and it is lass likely that they will do so again for most issues.


They did issue a patch for XP in May this year, but my understanding was that this was because of a vulnerability which could propagate from computer to computer unattended, so by patching XP they reduced the number of XP computers out there trying to infect everyone else. 
But I think the circumstances where they'll go back and patch older computers are pretty rare.


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## Maximvs (Sep 5, 2019)

Hello fellow VI Control people,

Recently I have come to understand that in January 2020 support for W7 will end and I am trying to find a way to test if my HP Elitebook 8760w mobile workstation is compatible with W10 but unfortunately I cannot find the Microsoft Get Windows 10 utility that help determine if a PC is compatible with W10.

Like many musician and composers out there I also opted to stay with the old good W7 but now I am facing the fact that software manufactures will eventually drop W7 all together and will force people using W7 to move to W10. The above mention laptop is running very well and I just don't like the idea of ditching it for a new one just because I need to move to W10.

I am just interested to hear what other people here, facing a similar situation, are doing and if there are tools available to check W10 compatibility for older Windows OS.

Many thanks in advance for any feedback and suggestions.

Cheers, Max T.


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## dzilizzi (Sep 5, 2019)

I would probably go check out the HP user forums. They were a lot of help when I was trying to find Windows 7 drivers for my Windows 8 laptop. https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebooks/ct-p/Notebook 


I eventually went back to 8 because I wanted to use the 7 license on a new build for my studio. And everything runs in 8 now without a problem. I find being one version back with a DAW is usually good. 

Here's a link to the free upgrade. https://windowsreport.com/windows-10-free-upgrade-2018/ Not sure if it still works now, but they seem to think so. I don know my old Lenovo desktop was told it couldn't be upgraded as there were no drivers available for some of the parts. Which is sad because it still runs pretty well. Maybe I will turn it into a network backup or something.


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## DavidY (Sep 5, 2019)

Massimo said:


> I am trying to find a way to test if my HP Elitebook 8760w mobile workstation is compatible with W10 but unfortunately I cannot find the Microsoft Get Windows 10 utility that help determine if a PC is compatible with W10.


This tutorial on TenForums (only posted this week, and posted by someone who really knows his stuff) suggests that the Window 10 Media Creation Toolkit will check compatibility before going ahead.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/139745-upgrade-windows-10-windows-7-free.html

To be on the safe side, my suggestion would be to start by ensuring you have a full backup image of your system drive running Windows 7 (I use Macrium Reflect Free but other tools do a similar job). That way you have a path back if for some reason it doesn't work.

But Windows 10 can run on some old hardware - in my case I still have it going on a laptop which came with Windows XP.


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## dzilizzi (Sep 5, 2019)

I may try it on my Desktop again. Though I think Microsoft sent me the "no drivers available" notice.


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## DavidY (Sep 6, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> I may try it on my Desktop again. Though I think Microsoft sent me the "no drivers available" notice.


You can be lucky or unlucky with drivers. Some old machines work with Windows 10 but some relatively new ones don't, due to driver compatibility.


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## dzilizzi (Sep 6, 2019)

I think I've had it for about 8-10 years, so I've got good use out of it. I'll probably keep it running until the end of the year at least.


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## Maximvs (Sep 6, 2019)

Thanks a lot DavidY and Dzilizzi for your very kind replies and suggestions/links... I normally keep OS images of my computer up to date so if something stop working I can re-install the previous OS in no time. 

Best regards,

Max T.


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## Bollen (Sep 6, 2019)

Just my experience: earlier this year I ran across an article that said "it's not too late to use the free upgrade to Windows 10". I was very afraid to try it on my main work machine so I got on Amazon, bought a cheap 500GB SSD and made a clone of my Win 7 to this new SSD. I did the in-place upgrade and it went terribly wrong... Got loads of driver issues, one blue screen, most of my software didn't work and had to be reinstalled or re-registered.

So I thought OK, it's ruined let's try a fresh install using the same installer. To my surprise not only did it work perfectly but it also automatically registered my Windows copy and everything!

I disconnected on of my Library Drives and used the cable to manually transfer all my files and settings from the Win 7 to the new fresh install. Fair enough I had to reinstall all my software (not too many though Cubase, VSL stuff, Play, Kontakt, Adobe, Firefox and Open Office). All in all it took me less than a day and I have a brand new computer in a way....

PS: I can't really judge whether Win 10 is faster since it's on a SSD so everything runs much, much faster.


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## Maximvs (Sep 7, 2019)

I would like to leave an update since asking you guys here on this thread about moving from W7 to W10... I have read and followed the various links post here and I once again thank the people who provided the links and suggestions... Unfortunately I could not find a good solution for my needs so I decided to ask the computer and tech shop where I normally go for computer hardware and software. The shop owner asked me to send him my full laptop specs and after an hor or so he got back to me saying that I can easily upgrade to W10 but the safest and best way is to do a fresh install of W10. On Monday I am taking my laptop in and in a day I will have a fully functional 2012 laptop running W10.

Cheers, Max T.


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 8, 2019)

Do not upgrade. Start fresh. Only asking for trouble, otherwise, esp. the old Win7 to Win10. Do yourself some favors:

1) image backup your existing drive
2) in advance, research what may or may not work of software/hardware you have
3) in advance, download 64 bit win10 compatible drivers and software versions - no 32bit if you can help it
4) have a fast internet connection to download stuff in advance and esp. the windows updates that come after... if not, consider downloading at least the major win10 update in advance

Put all stuff downloaded in advance on a usb drive, the speedier the better. You can buy and download Win10 to put on a usb (I got a 32gb on amazon for $10) if your computer can boot from USB. Buying from Microsoft removes any concerns about support, OEM versions, bad license keys, etc. that can ruin your day. Downside = price.

There is a Win10 compatibility tool I think available at Microsoft? Not sure I'd fully trust it, but it's a start.


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## dougj7 (Sep 8, 2019)

I upgraded my Dell Precision T1700 from win7 to 10 since I was too lazy to reload all of my software. Everything has been running great after upgrading. I'll eventually do a clean install, but for now, all is good.


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## DavidY (Sep 9, 2019)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Do not upgrade. Start fresh.


Sounds like Massimo is sorted anyway so perhaps this is a moot point.

But for anyone else doing it themselves, the advantage in upgrading from Win 7 to Win 10 is that it is still apparently a free upgrade. 

So that's still worth considering. As mentioned starting with a good backup image and I would also consider disconnecting any non-essential drives and peripherals before running the upgrade.

Once I was sure Windows 10 has activated successfully (and I would sign in using an admin-level Microsoft account for extra surety that a clean install would activate), *then *by all means go ahead and wipe it and put a fresh install of Windows 10 on. Clearing out the detritus from old installs is certainly something worth doing in some cases.

If it doesn't work, then that's what the backup image was for... *
*
Otherwise, as you say you're looking at a pricey Windows 10 licence, albeit with the advantage of more support.

I totally agree about downloading onto a USB stick to run the install though - for those not paying Microsoft for a licence, you can use the tool here to create an installer on a USB stick.
https://www.microsoft.com/software-download/windows10


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## MarcusMaximus (Dec 8, 2019)

The time is fast approaching.. I have a very stable slave PC running 7 and am reluctant to upgrade. However I don't want it to be vulnerable after support ends as I do have it online so that I can get updates for VEPro, Play etc. Also it is connected to my network to use VEPro with my Mac/Logic. It certainly seems to meet the system requirements for 10 on the Microsoft list but as I say I'd rather not 'fix it if it ain't broke'. 

So I'm wondering what people would advise - upgrade or stay with the tried and true? If the latter, how to run it safely after support ends?


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## rrichard63 (Dec 8, 2019)

I'm not sure I could even find (much less find the time to deal with) all of the licensed software that would have to be de-authorized before the upgrade and re-authorized afterwards. In case I do decide to try it eventually, two questions.

(1) Am I correct in believing that I don't have to worry about iLok and eLicenser licenses -- just plug in the dongle and everything will be good?

(2) Am I correct in believing that one advantage of upgrading without a clean install is that some licenses do not have to be de-authorized and re-authorized because they are linked to attributes of the hardware, not the OS? If so, is there a practical way to tell which authorizations are linked only to hardware and wouldn't be broken, and which ones are linked to the OS and would be broken?


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## dzilizzi (Dec 8, 2019)

So, generally, if you are just going to known sites you are pretty safe not upgrading, as long as you only connect to go to those sites. The problem is, if it is online all the time and connected to you network, there is the potential someone could get into all your computers through it.


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## CoffeeLover (Dec 8, 2019)

Exitmusicthis2 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I know l'm probably a little late to talk about this and apologizes if this has already been discussed.
> I'm currently running a great machine, Cubase 8.5 tons of software and hundreds of Gigs of sample libraries.
> ...


i ran win 10 pro 
4 tb of samples on ssd 
64gb ram 
intel 6700k 4ghz 
uad thunderbolt 
everything is fine on win 10 pro 
if you do recomended tweaks along with downloading winshutup10 

ive had issues during widows updates
like samples get de-authorized 
and along with bunch of plugins 
it can be a major hassle or it can be no hassle at all

very recently i took a jump on 
"win10 enterprise LTSC"
it was an expensive licence 
but totally worth it in my opinion
it reminds me of old times when on win 7 last time.
you get just windows. no features or windows store or any bloatware and the software gets updates on 2-3 year basis. 
its a dream machine. 
everything feels alot snapier
i highly recomend you checking it out and at least know that its out there.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 8, 2019)

rrichard63 said:


> I'm not sure I could even find (much less find the time to deal with) all of the licensed software that would have to be de-authorized before the upgrade and re-authorized afterwards. In case I do decide to try it eventually, two questions.
> 
> (1) Am I correct in believing that I don't have to worry about iLok and eLicenser licenses -- just plug in the dongle and everything will be good?
> 
> (2) Am I correct in believing that one advantage of upgrading without a clean install is that some licenses do not have to be de-authorized and re-authorized because they are linked to attributes of the hardware, not the OS? If so, is there a practical way to tell which authorizations are linked only to hardware and wouldn't be broken, and which ones are linked to the OS and would be broken?


Most licenses are linked to the machine code which should not change with an upgrade. The benefit of iLok and similar external licensors is that you don't have to authorize your machine. However, I have one or two programs that require me to get a new authorizations every time I've changed the hard drive (SSD). Most allow you to go online and deauthorize from your account. But if you have to transfer licenses to the cloud first for any program, you should probably do it before upgrading to be safe.

This is where I love my ilok


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## MarcusMaximus (Dec 8, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> So, generally, if you are just going to known sites you are pretty safe not upgrading, as long as you only connect to go to those sites. The problem is, if it is online all the time and connected to you network, there is the potential someone could get into all your computers through it.



Ok thanks. I'm not sure if it's possible to keep the PC connected to my home network (for VEPro functionality) but disconnected from the net. Unless I can keep both computers offline but networked together while the PC is on. I use the Mac for general internet stuff but I suppose I could keep it offline while working on music. I know this is generally recommended anyway but I've never had any problems with both computers being online while in use. I even have Security Essentials running on the PC while working and it's never caused any problems.


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## Bollen (Dec 8, 2019)

MarcusMaximus said:


> The time is fast approaching.. I have a very stable slave PC running 7 and am reluctant to upgrade. However I don't want it to be vulnerable after support ends as I do have it online so that I can get updates for VEPro, Play etc. Also it is connected to my network to use VEPro with my Mac/Logic. It certainly seems to meet the system requirements for 10 on the Microsoft list but as I say I'd rather not 'fix it if it ain't broke'.
> 
> So I'm wondering what people would advise - upgrade or stay with the tried and true? If the latter, how to run it safely after support ends?


Well to be frank, I've run Windows on my work PC for over 15 years now without antivirus or firewall (aside from the one already included in Windows). I do a yearly scan using one of those enterprise services and it's never found anything. In Windows 7 is really easy/quick to turn the connection off, so if you are really concerned keep it offline until you want to update.

As for Windows 10, I've been on it for a year now and has worked without a hitch. Some people have had success with the in-place upgrade (not me) so you might try that... It means everything will remain installed and registered. Mine didn't work so I had to do fresh install. Windows registered itself without asking for anything and all software registered normally without complaining.

PS: you can configure Windows 10 to bare bones in less than an hour, is not a big deal.


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## MarcusMaximus (Dec 8, 2019)

Bollen said:


> Well to be frank, I've run Windows on my work PC for over 15 years now without antivirus or firewall (aside from the one already included in Windows). I do a yearly scan using one of those enterprise services and it's never found anything. In Windows 7 is really easy/quick to turn the connection off, so if you are really concerned keep it offline until you want to update.
> 
> As for Windows 10, I've been on it for a year now and has worked without a hitch. Some people have had success with the in-place upgrade (not me) so you might try that... It means everything will remain installed and registered. Mine didn't work so I had to do fresh install. Windows registered itself without asking for anything and all software registered normally without complaining.
> 
> PS: you can configure Windows 10 to bare bones in less than an hour, is not a big deal.



Excellent thank you. I'm not sure how to disable the internet connection while keeping the LAN active in windows 7 so I'll have to look into that. Good to hear about Win. 10. I will certainly consider the upgrade, especially if there are any issues with 7 after January.

Edit: Actually I'm finding it a bit hard to figure this out. I don't want to change the ethernet adaptor settings because it took a while to sort out the static IP's etc. - I'd rather leave all that alone. So is there an easy way to disconnect from the net while still staying connected to the LAN? Thanks.


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## Bollen (Dec 9, 2019)

MarcusMaximus said:


> Excellent thank you. I'm not sure how to disable the internet connection while keeping the LAN active in windows 7 so I'll have to look into that. Good to hear about Win. 10. I will certainly consider the upgrade, especially if there are any issues with 7 after January.
> 
> Edit: Actually I'm finding it a bit hard to figure this out. I don't want to change the ethernet adaptor settings because it took a while to sort out the static IP's etc. - I'd rather leave all that alone. So is there an easy way to disconnect from the net while still staying connected to the LAN? Thanks.


Easy is a subjective term... . The only time I had a slave PC I had an old, separate, router for it that just connected to the master. But from a quick Google it seems there are multiple ways of doing it including from the router itself.

Edit: here's a simple method and well explained:  and you could always do offline updates through your Master, that way you don't need to toggle the settings.


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## MarcusMaximus (Dec 9, 2019)

Bollen said:


> Easy is a subjective term... . The only time I had a slave PC I had an old, separate, router for it that just connected to the master. But from a quick Google it seems there are multiple ways of doing it including from the router itself.
> 
> Edit: here's a simple method and well explained:  and you could always do offline updates through your Master, that way you don't need to toggle the settings.




That's great thanks. Yes, simple enough and explained clearly. Looks like there's no way around changing those network settings.  I'll look into the router method as well.


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## dzilizzi (Dec 19, 2019)

I just upgraded my personal desktop from 7 to 10. I did a quick upgrade years ago to activate the free version, but immediately went back. I think that helped a lot that it worked then. I had to mess with the display settings a bit, but everything seems to be working fine. I can no longer use homegroups or Windows Security Essentials, but Defender is better. I do miss homegroups though. I think if this was my music computer, I would have done a clean install. 

And now that I don't need my other music computer for this, I can try making it into a Hackintosh. Just as an experiment.

Edit spelling.


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