# Getting Paid as a Music Composer for Films and Video Games.



## MackComposer (Oct 2, 2013)

Hello Composer Buddies!

I am at a loss when it comes to how to find a job and how much money to ask for. I have a contract set up to ask for a certain amount per minute of music written. I'm not sure how much to ask for and what is a normal rate for a composer in today's society.

Also, to get paid, I need to actually get work. What are your suggestions on where and how to find work?

Thank you for your time!


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## RiffWraith (Oct 2, 2013)

MackComposer @ Wed Oct 02 said:


> I'm not sure how much to ask for and what is a normal rate for a composer in today's society.



The normal rates are as follows:

*Video games*: Anywhere from $20/min. to $2,000/min. You should seek something within that range.

*Films*: Anywhere from a couple hundred per score, to upwards of 1 mil. per score. You should seek something within that range.

Now obviously, if you are just starting out, you will be somewhere on the lower side of those figures, but that should give you a good starting point. Sorry if I seem like a wise-arse, but there is no correct answer to your Q. I have seen numbers thrown around on this and other forums. Some are accurate, and some are not. Even tho they tnd to fall within the range I just gave you.

In terms of where to look for work - there is no correct answer to that Q either. It's not like there is some secret hang out where you will find directors and producers who are looking for composers. You have to just go and find the work. You have to network, scour the internet, and network some more. Keep in mind - there are many many people here who are in the same boat as you. And there are way fewer jobs available than there are composers. And the other forum members of which I speak are also looking for work - the same work you are. There might be someone who is willing to get into a bit mor detail than I, but most other composers are not going to simply say, "here - this is how you do it", for reasons that should be obvious.

Good luck!


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## Martin K (Oct 2, 2013)

Hi MackComposer.

Here's a couple of threads I've found very useful in the past:

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31003
http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29524

All the best of luck!

- Martin


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## gsilbers (Oct 2, 2013)

is there something like royalties in the video gae composing world? 
(sorry my ignorance :( )


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## Walid F. (Oct 2, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Wed Oct 02 said:


> MackComposer @ Wed Oct 02 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure how much to ask for and what is a normal rate for a composer in today's society.
> ...



lol!


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## jaredcowing (Oct 2, 2013)

RiffWraith's wide range of fees may seem daunting, but it really does seem to vary that much. If you need a good starting-out fee, figure out how long it takes you to write an average minute of music (and make it a generous estimate to accommodate for revisions, mixing, time discussing with director, etc), then how many minutes of music you think you could produce in a week/month, and then figure out what rate will make it worth your time. So, if 20k a year/30k/40k etc etc is a sustainable rate for you, do the math and you'll get a ballpark idea of what fees you need to charge. Don't forget that you'll have equipment costs you need to cover, and you also should be paying income taxes on what you're bringing in. It doesn't matter if charging less will give you a better edge to get the gig, if you can't afford it then you can't afford it... cheap/free gigs rarely lead to "future collaborations" and you can't pay student loans with "copy & credit." Many of those kind of projects are the type that fizzle before they're even finished anyway, leaving you without anything to show.

As for finding work, this is something we all have to fight with- it's an uber-competitive industry packed with composers of varying quality willing to write for free (who haven't thought about the math above) and finding gigs can sometimes feel like gold panning in a swimming pool. Alot of composers will be reluctant to give tips out of fear of losing their leads. But, one thing you have that others don't is that your location is unique; if you have local filmmakers, game developers, hunt them down. Trying to compete on a national/international site like Craigslist/Mandy will probably leave you lost in a sea of musicians unless they want something very, very specific and you happen to have just that.


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## RiffWraith (Oct 2, 2013)

Martin K @ Wed Oct 02 said:


> Hi MackComposer.
> 
> Here's a couple of threads I've found very useful in the past:
> 
> ...



Good post. Prolly a bit more helpful than mine. :o 

The other thing that may be of use, which I forgot to mention - the thing you really want to do when starting the negotiating of a fee, is these three words: "what's your budget". The goal is to find out what they are looking to spend before you spew dollar figures their way. It doesn't always work, but you want to try and start off that way. The last thing you want to do is tell (for ex. a game dev) $250/min for 20 cues ($5,000), only to (somehow) find out later that they had a budget of $8,000 for the music. The_ other _ last thing you want to do is tell them $800/min for 20 cues ($16,000), only to (somehow) find out later that they had a budget of $14,000 for the music, but you lost the job to someone else, b/c for some reason they did not come back to you to try and get you to come down a bit. 

It is tricky, I'll say that much.


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## Martin K (Oct 2, 2013)

RiffWraith @ Thu Oct 03 said:


> The other thing that may be of use, which I forgot to mention - the thing you really want to do when starting the negotiating of a fee, is these three words: "what's your budget".


+1 

I think thats crucial in any kind of freelancing 

Mike Verta has a really good free podcast on this topic (check his site) and I also recommend his masterclass "The Business" where he talk a lot about this. It's 30 bucks or something, but totally worth it.

- Martin


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## Greg (Oct 2, 2013)

Hi Mack!

I found that early on in your career, fee is very often determined by the client, so don't stress too much about it.

Make sure you get enough $ to keep yourself happy and motivated, and don't be afraid to work for cheap if the project is super awesome.


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## germancomponist (Oct 2, 2013)

This thread reminds me to my first paid local radio-spot production in the 90's. 

I had no idea what to answer if the money question would be asked. In front of the door of my client I took my phone and called a good friend, asked him and he said:" Tell them 800.-" For my understanding at this time, it was a lot of money for only a little local radio spot. Yeah, they asked me and I said (a little shy) : "800.-". And they said: "OK".


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## guydoingmusic (Oct 2, 2013)

Martin K @ Wed Oct 02 said:


> RiffWraith @ Thu Oct 03 said:
> 
> 
> > The other thing that may be of use, which I forgot to mention - the thing you really want to do when starting the negotiating of a fee, is these three words: "what's your budget".
> ...



+1 Definitely the first question, I always ask!!!


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## dinerdog (Oct 2, 2013)

+1 on the Mike Verta video "The Business" a MUST HAVE for creatives at any level.


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## wonshu (Oct 2, 2013)

germancomponist @ Wed Oct 02 said:


> Yeah, they asked me and I said (a little shy) : "800.-". And they said: "OK".



You can always tell the amount you were below or above their budget by the length of the pause before they answer...


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## Jem7 (Oct 3, 2013)

Lately I'm in that "how to find work" position too. I haven't got any composing gig been last summer. People usually like my demo reel but gigs don't come to you if you are not well known composer.


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## mark812 (Oct 3, 2013)

Guys, could you share some advice about starting doing music for commercials? Who to contact?


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## Madrigal (Oct 3, 2013)

mark812 @ Thu Oct 03 said:


> Guys, could you share some advice about starting doing music for commercials? Who to contact?



Well that depends on a lot of things. 

First thing you need to ask yourself: "Who decides what music gets used in commercials?" 

Advertising campaigns are usually created by independent ad agencies. They are the ones who make the creative decisions. They either have their own music supervisor or they hire an external contractor/company.

Getting in touch with ad agencies and music supervisors within your area would be a good first step. 

However, in the ad world, most of the big music gigs are handled by music houses/studios that have in their roster several composers/sound designers/engineers/mixers and offer an all-inclusive package-deal. 

Working for one of those music studios can be great for building a portfolio but terrible for pretty much everything else. 

Honestly, in the end, it all comes down to this:

_Networking_

Of course, you have to be able to deliver fantastic music on very short notice. 

Otherwise your career might end after your first gig.


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