# Release of film scores



## southnorth (May 9, 2010)

How are film cues prepared for sale as a standalone product?

Let's say I have 25 cues from a film. Some of these doesn't have a proper intro or outro, and some are very short, yet distinctive and interesting. What's the practice in getting these scores ready for sale on a CD?


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## midphase (May 9, 2010)

After I finish each film I work on, I go back to my stems, pick about 10-15 of the cues that I feel best represent the score and master them (I don't do any mastering when delivering the score since I want to retain as much dynamics and not emphasize the eq for the film).

Usually I try and pick cues that are at least 1 minute in length...no need to bother with the really short stuff unless it can be all combined into one longer piece.

If I retain control of the music, I try to place it on iTunes, otherwise it's really up to the producers to figure out if they can distribute the score on its own.

There's not a whole lot of money in selling scores, especially for indie films which don't get big advertising and public awareness. It's mostly a vanity thing, or a self marketing thing for a composer.


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## southnorth (May 10, 2010)

midphase @ Mon May 10 said:


> After I finish each film I work on, I go back to my stems, pick about 10-15 of the cues that I feel best represent the score and master them (I don't do any mastering when delivering the score since I want to retain as much dynamics and not emphasize the eq for the film).
> 
> Usually I try and pick cues that are at least 1 minute in length...no need to bother with the really short stuff unless it can be all combined into one longer piece.
> 
> ...



Thank you! But wouldn't it be necessary to do some "post-composition" to get a more cohesive product, etc.? Aren't there additional compositions made for the scores that are avalable on CD? For instance the Gladiator soundtrack. I don't think the scores on the CD match what is used in the film? Or am I mistaken...?


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## midphase (May 10, 2010)

What are we talking about here? Are you scoring a huge studio film or a small indie?

With something like Gladiator, obviously the guys felt that there was money to be made from releasing 2 soundtrack CD's of more polished and "musical" cues. It's not unheard of on bigger films for the score to be re-recorded with less rushing and more thought on the listening value for the CD.

I think it really comes down to how much time you have on your hands. Personally I find that creating new cues or passages for the CD that aren't used in the film kinda goes against the whole idea of a soundtrack CD. 

I suppose that you can do whatever you want, just be aware that not many people are purchasing soundtracks on iTunes or Amazon unless they came from well marketed films or include a great deal of popular songs.


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## southnorth (May 10, 2010)

midphase @ Mon May 10 said:


> What are we talking about here? Are you scoring a huge studio film or a small indie?
> 
> With something like Gladiator, obviously the guys felt that there was money to be made from releasing 2 soundtrack CD's of more polished and "musical" cues. It's not unheard of on bigger films for the score to be re-recorded with less rushing and more thought on the listening value for the CD.
> 
> ...



I was referring to a full-length feature film. I agree, changing the scores used in the film would make it less genuine. Thanks!


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## midphase (May 10, 2010)

I wasn't asking if you're referring to the score for a short or a full length feature, but if you're talking about a studio film which will get substantial press attention or an indie which will most likely play at festivals and then end up on DVD/BD?


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## southnorth (May 11, 2010)

midphase @ Mon May 10 said:


> I wasn't asking if you're referring to the score for a short or a full length feature, but if you're talking about a studio film which will get substantial press attention or an indie which will most likely play at festivals and then end up on DVD/BD?



The big deal; press, cinemas, you name it.


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## southnorth (May 11, 2010)

autopilot @ Wed May 12 said:


> Then it'll be up to the record company and marketing department as to whether the additional recording and production expenses will pay off in the CD release.



Isn't it sad how everything is influenced by the search for profit?


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## JohnG (May 11, 2010)

I don't know if this is really what you are talking about, and you almost undoubtedly already know this, but anyway...

I think there's plenty of precedent for generally what you are talking about if musically it would be fun.

Many composers prepare a suite for CD release. Jerry Goldsmith did sometimes, John Williams many times; Randy Newman for "A Bug's Life."

Sometimes the suites are composed after the score is released, sometimes they appear to be written directly for the CD. "Mulan" is an example.

Also, sometimes composers include a main theme or an end title credit that's a different arrangement or a version without the interruptions for dialogue or pauses or what have you.


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## southnorth (May 12, 2010)

JohnG @ Wed May 12 said:


> Sometimes the suites are composed after the score is released



So basically, this means that a soundtrack/scores CD may contain music that was not even composed when the film was finalised?


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## JohnG (May 12, 2010)

Well, for sure John Williams has released scores in sheet music / full score format for different ensembles, so that might fall into this category. Moreover, the "Mulan" soundtrack features a superb suite of Jerry Goldsmith's main themes, edited / arranged as a kind of overture that doesn't appear in that form in the movie.

The material is in the film, but not the suite.

I think that there may also be some union issues here; if the music is recorded for the film, then used in a major-selling CD, the musicians get new use fees. If it's originally recorded as a record / CD, they don't. But it depends on how the session's contracted and all that, so don't quote me! I use a contractor who knows what she's doing, but I don't know all those rules.

I assume it's common to edit together a couple of cues so that they don't sound like fragments, chopping out any boring bits as well. If you have a good music editor, ask him or her to have a bash? And I can recommend a good, experienced music editor if you want someone for this particular project. PM me if interested.


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## southnorth (May 13, 2010)

JohnG @ Thu May 13 said:


> Well, for sure John Williams has released scores in sheet music / full score format for different ensembles, so that might fall into this category. Moreover, the "Mulan" soundtrack features a superb suite of Jerry Goldsmith's main themes, edited / arranged as a kind of overture that doesn't appear in that form in the movie.
> 
> The material is in the film, but not the suite.
> 
> ...



Thanks very much! This answered all my questions!


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## southnorth (May 13, 2010)

midphase @ Thu May 13 said:


> southnorth @ Tue May 11 said:
> 
> 
> > The big deal; press, cinemas, you name it.
> ...



Oh, I was probably not precise enough! I was referring to how it is done for feature films with the whole package. That is, I'm not working on music for a film. Sorry! Interesting read though. 

On that note, I composed music for a larger movie some time ago which was produced and arranged by another guy. Apparently, the star in the film had to work on other films so the project halted. To be honest, I'm not sure the music was good enough either. Hehe. But that's a long time ago.

Any members here who write/have written for A films?


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## midphase (May 13, 2010)

I don't think we have any of the big guns around here, unless they're using fake names and having a blast criticizing themselves while posing as a snot-nosed 20-something. Jay Asher's head would explode if that actually happened!

If your question is purely for informative reasons, I think the answer is that it depends on the film and how much the composer gives a crap (or what his schedule allows).

For example, I can see someone like Carter Burwell or Jan A.P. Kaczmarek go back and re-arrange their cues for the soundtrack album because they strike me as guys who really care about that sort of thing. I think in many cases, the composer is not really involved with the soundtrack release nearly as much as you'd think. Since the studio owns the copyright and the recording, many times a music editor will be hired to sort out the various cues and compile a soundtrack. Sometimes the studio will simply feed to the record label (say someone like Varese Sarabande for example) the recordings, and the label will finance the re-mixing or re-editing of the cues for the soundtrack.

Unfortunately, in most cases this is really a labor of love for most involved. The labels barely recoup their investment just enough to stay afloat, while the composer and studio rarely sees a whole lot of profits from the sales. There are exceptions of course, kid movies, song driven soundtracks, and high visibility blockbusters do better than...say...the score to Human Centipede. Also Japanese anime scores seem to do well, and the videogames scores seem to be catching on.

While album sales for pop artist are counted in the millions, soundtracks sales are in the thousands.

It would really surprise me if the soundtrack to Iron Man 2 manages to move more than 100,000 copies...then again maybe it's got some new Limp Bizkit song in it as an exclusive and that might propel sales. (John Debney shouldn't complain too much since his soundtrack for Passion of the Christ sold quite well).

Last but not least, I think the best selling soundtrack non-song driven album of all times goes to...ready for this? Titanic. (although you could make the argument that it was also song-driven, but at least not as song driven as The Bodyguard who holds the record for biggest selling soundtrack of all time).


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## southnorth (May 13, 2010)

midphase @ Thu May 13 said:


> and the label will finance the re-mixing or re-editing of the cues for the soundtrack.



It's a little surprising that the composers allow this to happen, since their original music is altered. Mastering is the only thing I allow labels to take care of. And I'm very aware of changes made. You know, music is art. Editing art for a specific purpose isn't always (never?) a good thing.

It was interesting to read about the figures and most popular soundtracks. 

Film music is apparently considered as of lower "quality" with regard to foreground music. Why is that? Some pieces from diverse films are absolutely incredible, and work very well as standalone music.


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## midphase (May 13, 2010)

"You know, music is art. Editing art for a specific purpose isn't always (never?) a good thing. "

Not to bring Jay Asher into the loop once again, but he'd make a solid argument that film music is not art but craft.

The bottom line of it is that it's work made for hire, and as such artistic considerations that might apply to art made for the sake of art are more fuzzy in the film/tv industry. 

The very act of creating a soundtrack CD is an alteration of the original artistic intent if you really think about it.

Ultimately, it's a product, meant to generate money for the people and corporations involved...which is probably why less and less soundtracks are released on CD and more and more go straight to iTunes due to the lower production costs.


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## southnorth (May 14, 2010)

midphase @ Thu May 13 said:


> "You know, music is art. Editing art for a specific purpose isn't always (never?) a good thing. "
> 
> Not to bring Jay Asher into the loop once again, but he'd make a solid argument that film music is not art but craft.
> 
> ...



Well, I can't disagree with you on this one. In fact, a lot of film music lacks the quality of art. Good points!


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