# All Saints Choir: Available Now. Intro 30% Off



## soniccouture (Apr 7, 2020)

All Saints Choir is Out now! 30% Off until May 10th.

http://www.soniccouture.com/en/products/28-rare-and-experimental/g66-all-saints-choir/

With demos by Hannah Peel & Guy Sigsworth.


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## Christian64 (Apr 7, 2020)

I hope the saints too will confine themselves to this cathedral and start singing...


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## ism (Apr 7, 2020)

wow, that sounds wonderful.

A true chamber choir sound. Less liturgical that Dominus, less epic that mostly other choirs. I'm not sure there's anything else that really nails this kind of chamber sound.


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## CT (Apr 7, 2020)

Can't wait!


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## Robert_G (Apr 7, 2020)

Interested....i hope its as good as it looks

SATB -check
Polyphonic legato - check
Intimate sound - check
Sections recorded seperately - check

Will be watching this one


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## Robert_G (Apr 7, 2020)

Just noticed the patch in the demo is almost 4 gigs. Could be some insane quality in this one.


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## Will Blackburn (Apr 7, 2020)

About time Soniccouture


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## soniccouture (Apr 7, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Just noticed the patch in the demo is almost 4 gigs. Could be some insane quality in this one.



Yes - that's with all sections and all vowels loaded. it's optional to just load what you need.

James


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## Robert_G (Apr 7, 2020)

soniccouture said:


> Yes - that's with all sections and all vowels loaded. it's optional to just load what you need.
> 
> James



Are there phrases or builders of some sort, or is it a fairly basic vowel lib?


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## Geomir (Apr 7, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Is there phrases or builders of some sort, or is it a fairly basic vowel lib?


What demo? What patch?


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## Robert_G (Apr 7, 2020)

Geomir said:


> What demo? What patch?



The video in the first post


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## soniccouture (Apr 7, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> Are there phrases or builders of some sort, or is it a fairly basic vowel lib?




It’s vowel based, but not basic!
No phrases or words though.


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## Geomir (Apr 7, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> The video in the first post


Oh yes I noticed that now! You have a keen eye for sure! I thought you got (somehow!) your hands in some demo and you are already trying the patches yourself!


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## Geomir (Apr 7, 2020)

soniccouture said:


> It’s vowel based, but not basic!
> No phrases or words though.


Any information about the price (initial and/or normal)?


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## soniccouture (Apr 7, 2020)

Geomir said:


> Any information about the price (initial and/or normal)?



More info soon.


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## Geomir (Apr 7, 2020)

soniccouture said:


> More info soon.


Understandable!


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## Robert_G (Apr 7, 2020)

Geomir said:


> Oh yes I noticed that now! You have a keen eye for sure! I thought you got (somehow!) your hands in some demo and you are already trying the patches yourself!



Im not that special....or at least thats what the wife tells me


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## Ashermusic (Apr 7, 2020)

Nice!


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## colony nofi (Apr 8, 2020)

Very Very Nice


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## CT (Apr 9, 2020)

Any information about the organ too, guys?


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## soniccouture (Apr 9, 2020)

miket said:


> Any information about the organ too, guys?



it's from the same church - it's a Harrison pipe organ. From memory we have a fairly complete set of stops if not every single one.
Here's a Youtube tour of the same organ from 2016:




James


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## CT (Apr 9, 2020)

Lovely! Very smooth, English sound.


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## ThomasL (Apr 9, 2020)

Sounds great!


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## Nicola74 (Apr 15, 2020)

Any news?


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## soniccouture (Apr 15, 2020)

Nicola74 said:


> Any news?



Nope, it's all gone quiet


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## soniccouture (Apr 17, 2020)

Out now!


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## Mark Schmieder (Apr 18, 2020)

So just to be clear, as I don't think it was covered in the video: the "M" is kind of an em/um cross, as opposed to a consonant you can combine with the different vowels?

I didn't see more than one key switch engaged at a time, and I guess it defies the concept to allow more than one, even if a vowel plus a consonant, plus it would either have had to have been recorded, or the engine would have to do something special to "connect" the two sounds naturally.

The four mic positions really help; I didn't care for most of the audio demos I heard so far, but there were some sweet spots in the video that convinced me that I can get sounds that I like (i.e. warm and dimensional as well as spatial without being muddy).

On the other hand, I've gotten used to phrase building at this point, so I do have to give this one some more thought (especially on a no-income budget). It's the first one to come along in years that hasn't made me nervous about not liking if I buy.

So I understand there will eventually be an organ library recorded in that same church? That's another selling point, for a nice blend. And also I get the impression it will have a lot of stops, which isn't the case with most organ libraries (not counting the dedicated programs like Hauptwerk and others).

This library seems quite well-priced for what it is, given the depth of sampling, the quality of the space and the miking as well as the flexibility and the user features along with ease of workflow. I think this library will be a time-saver compared to some others, as there's just one patch and switching voices or vowels is trivial.


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## SupremeFist (Apr 18, 2020)

I'm excited about the core sound of this library but I'm hearing some unpleasant squelchy resonances during some of the legato transitions in the demos. Is this an artefact of the poly legato? (I don't think I would ever use the poly legato, just SATB in different instances.)


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## soniccouture (Apr 18, 2020)

Mark Schmieder said:


> So just to be clear, as I don't think it was covered in the video: the "M" is kind of an em/um cross, as opposed to a consonant you can combine with the different vowels?
> 
> I didn't see more than one key switch engaged at a time, and I guess it defies the concept to allow more than one, even if a vowel plus a consonant, plus it would either have had to have been recorded, or the engine would have to do something special to "connect" the two sounds naturally.
> 
> ...



Hi Mark,

Yes, the M is another 'vowel' shape, not a consonant. We thought hard about phrase builders and consonants, but we concluded that this inevitably ends up tying the choir to a certain style or direction, depending on the language or style of the phrases.Our philosophy is always to make something as close to a musical instrument as we can - something that is as broad as possible in scope for the user.

I can say that you're right, it is very easy to use and play, even for a non-trained guy like me: it just works, and sounds good and consistent.

The church organ will be released in a few months time. it's built, but just needs a final GUI on it. it is based on the original stops, yes, although not a complete set. I attach a picture of the stops on our working GUI for you and the others who have asked about it here.






James


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## soniccouture (Apr 18, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I'm excited about the core sound of this library but I'm hearing some unpleasant squelchy resonances during some of the legato transitions in the demos. Is this an artefact of the poly legato? (I don't think I would ever use the poly legato, just SATB in different instances.)



Hi Mr. Fist,
It could be the poly legato. Unfortunately nothing is ever quite perfect, however hard we try. But I do feel the positives massively outnumber the negatives in this product. We’re very proud of it.
James


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## Mark Schmieder (Apr 18, 2020)

James, that makes a lot of sense; thanks for clarifying. I just have to decide whether I can risk using PayPal Credit and assume I have income within six months so I can pay it back.  We still don't have a definite end date for quarantine in California.

I'm already in on that organ library, as it includes a lot of stops that aren't on my main one (it's apparently against the rules to name other products in product announcement threads). I was never successful in finding another one of equal depth and quality to complement it when I need other stops or character, but I am very confident this will be the one, and to have one that is matched to a chamber choir library is beyond my wildest expectations!


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## SupremeFist (Apr 18, 2020)

soniccouture said:


> Hi Mr. Fist,
> It could be the poly legato. Unfortunately nothing is ever quite perfect, however hard we try. But I do feel the positives massively outnumber the negatives in this product. We’re very proud of it.
> James


Of course, and God knows nothing I ever do is perfect. For me this is one of those times where a playable demo would really help to reassure me to buy if it showed that this wouldn't happen in my intended use case.


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## CT (Apr 18, 2020)

Looking forward to hearing the organ too. Might be impossible to resist that pairing!


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## dodecabilly (Apr 22, 2020)

I really like the sound, and the small mixed choir is something I was looking for. I was ready to jump on it, but I am hesitant since i saw that there are no short articulations... I don't care about phrase or word builders, but staccato is important, I'd say.


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## Mark Schmieder (Apr 22, 2020)

You're in luck then, because I plan to do a demo tomorrow that is mostly staccato. I can't promise yet that it can be shared here though, as I have to find out the policies on non-originals. I'll run it by the right people once I'm done with it. My basic instinct tells me that the warmth of this library and its flexible mic setups will be very helpful towards staccato parts.


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## soniccouture (Apr 22, 2020)

dodecabilly said:


> I really like the sound, and the small mixed choir is something I was looking for. I was ready to jump on it, but I am hesitant since i saw that there are no short articulations... I don't care about phrase or word builders, but staccato is important, I'd say.



Thanks to Mark for his offer!

Staccato is certainly possible, because we have hard attacks and 'note off' samples, so you can shape the note using the EG controls and you still get a natural end to a shorter note.

we will also look at putting up a demo that focuses more on this.

James


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## Mark Schmieder (Apr 26, 2020)

This library is amazing! Aurally it is my favourite by far, but it is so flexible that it wouldn't surprise me if it meets far more people's needs than might be expected at first glance. And though it may take a couple of hours to truly learn its capabilities, it's all quite intuitive and fast/simple from that point on, meaning that each new project will involve minimal ramp-up time to get the settings that you need.

I tend to give a library its biggest challenge right from the outset, and as mentioned earlier, in this case it meant handling the staccato dilemma on repeated notes. We're not allowed to make comparisons in product announcement threads, so I'll just say that All Saints Choir is the first one where I didn't even have to struggle to avoid the dreaded machine gun effect; I can't even force it to happen!

As James suggested earlier, the way to achieve staccato is to work with the EG controls, which at first was intimidating for me as I'm not used to using them to create shorter articulations on natural samples (vs. synth sounds). I simply used my ears and my basic knowledge of EG, and didn't fret over the possibility that even better settings could be achieved if one tried every possible combination.

It really didn't take very long for me to "dial it in" and then refine it, to where things sounded like a natural staccato without even much of a need to edit any note lengths to avoid anomalies. I started with Soprano and then applied the same settings for Alto and Tenor, so had to make some VERY minor adjustments to note lengths for the latter two, so it's possible (but not proven) that the EG might need to be a bit different for the four choir sections. I may work on this some more today just to see.

Previously, to mitigate listener fatigue and machine gun effects, I had to rotate between plain vowels and aspirated vowels. Aspirated vowels (ta, da, ba, pa, etc.) aren't available in All Saints Choir, but they aren't really necessary due to control over attack, resonance, etc.

I am used to only having two vowel choices. I tried them all last night, and found that taking a call/response approach between "ah" and "oh" worked better than the more typically available "ah" and "ooh" or "uh". The "m" vowel sound is very subtle and quiet and has almost no attack; it didn't work well in my particular context but I already have another project in mind where it will be the ideal solution to a phrase where I need the vocal part to suddenly "recede" without a basic change in depth or timbre.

For the staccato sections, I am using a mic blend that is mostly the close mics with some of the other mics blended in. I am noticing that both of the closer cardioid pairs are warmer than the two more distant omni sets, which makes this library WAY more versatile than I expected as I can cover a wider range of timbres and moods than with anything else I can think of.

The articulateness of this library is unsurpassed, and that is why applying EG controls goes so far to achieving usable results across many different articulations and needs.

For readability's sake, I will include my other comments in a separate post.


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## Mark Schmieder (Apr 26, 2020)

For my arrangement of Murray Golds "The Daleks" theme from the early 1960's Doctor Who seasons, I have S/A/T harmony Staccato strikes, whilst the Bass is Legato and doubling the Orchestral Horns line (for the most part). So I worked out completely different settings for the Bass Choir.

I found that for an atmospheric but not too "roomy" sound, blending with lots of brass and strings, the Mid Mics with just a touch of the others, gave me the best timbre, as otherwise things got a bit too spacey with the ambient mics or too warm with the closer mics, and thus didn't blend as well with brass.

On the staccato passages, I applied the morphing control with four controllable detunings, and found that it didn't take long to find a nice balance and ratio that added a bit of "hair" without sounding gimmicky or nauseating (especially on repeated listens). It's really amazing what a wide range of control one has with the Cluster controls. This is the first time I have experienced such control on a natural "instrument" where it doesn't sound fake, overly predictable and thus fatiguing, or hard to fine-tune.

I did find that having only one Mic in the mix, results in a super-low overall output (e.g. peaks at -32 to -46 dB), so I raised the primary Mid mic in my custom Legato snapshot by 6 dB as that puts it more on par with multi-mic mixes at the same point in the overall signal path (vs. raising the Kontakt output level, or the EQ panel's output level).

One reason I think it might be best to do separate EG controls on the four choir sections vs. a catch-all for the entire choir, is that I noticed some loss of definition on the "O" vowel at the lower end of the vocal range for the Alto and Tenor sections, when using my settings that were based on the Soprano section. I made very minor adjustments to note lengths for now, but it might have been better to instead fiddle with the EG controls for each section independently. It was past 2am by then though.

I have saved two user snapshots; one for staccato w/ cluster (titled "Slightly Frightened Staccato"), and another for legato (titled "Dark Somber Legato"). See the attached ZIP file. If you're running macOS, you can unzip these and deposit in [user]/Documents/Native Instruments/User Content/All Saints Choir, and I think Kontakt will know to re-scan this folder on re-launch and they'll show up as User Snapshots.

NOTE: These have now been updated with far better attack/decay/sustain/release handling, based on helpful advice from James at Soniccouture. I probably didn't match exactly what he did with his own staccato work, but it's definitely a huge improvement over what I posted earlier (and simpler too).


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## Mark Schmieder (Apr 27, 2020)

I have updated the post above, with cross-platform Kontakt User Snapshots instead of macOS-only Audio Units Presets, and decided to make my gain adjustment at the Mic mix stage rather than at the EQ output level or Kontakt output level stage. The writeup has been revised to match.

Note that my staccato work is not perfect, and will get refined more (hopefully today), but should at least be a good starting point.

UPDATE: I have reposted the Kontakt snapshots above, to better match what was learned about staccato handling after James reviewed my earlier work. No guarantee that what I did matches 100% what he did at his end, but it's at least a huge improvement. Turns out the best thing is to turn Attack to zero as it removes the velocity-sensitive VELATK setting to the right, which is awesome on sustained parts but can create some challenges with staccato ASDR envelopes.


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## soniccouture (Apr 30, 2020)

We have an interview with Hannah Peel about the two choir tracks she wrote for us:

Hannah Peel: Composing with All Saints Choir


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## axb312 (Apr 30, 2020)

Mark Schmieder said:


> For my arrangement of Murray Golds "The Daleks" theme from the early 1960's Doctor Who seasons, I have S/A/T harmony Staccato strikes, whilst the Bass is Legato and doubling the Orchestral Horns line (for the most part). So I worked out completely different settings for the Bass Choir.
> 
> I found that for an atmospheric but not too "roomy" sound, blending with lots of brass and strings, the Mid Mics with just a touch of the others, gave me the best timbre, as otherwise things got a bit too spacey with the ambient mics or too warm with the closer mics, and thus didn't blend as well with brass.
> 
> ...


 

Umm...could we maybe hear some audio?


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## Mark Schmieder (Apr 30, 2020)

It's up at the site now, in far more illustrious company than an amateur's work deserves, but I do hope it helps show off the staccato capabilities of the library and helps with sales. 

I am quite impressed by all of the audio demos, and there are enough of them posted by now, that one really gets a good sense of how broad and deep this library is, as well as being eminently flexible and adaptable.

Hannah Peel's original compositions especially impress me, because she manages to use the library in a context that one might normally assume could only be well-served by a phrase builder or by simple vowel/consonant combinations. Yet her lines soar and are clearly distinguished and flowing, with no sense of repetition or of any wimp factor in the phrasing from lack of consonants.


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## Mark Schmieder (May 1, 2020)

I have updated my Kontakt snapshots (on the previous page of this thread), after quite a bit of time tonight reviewing the effect of different settings and especially putting to work the advice James gave about zeroing the attack setting so that the VELATK doesn't cause complications with the ASDR envelope on staccato notes. Those settings are very necessary for sustains though.

I also switched the reverbs used (from Stage to Hall), and increased their ratios. It all seems to blend more smoothly and evenly now across different note ranges, note lengths, and dynamics.

Anything the vendor posts themselves is guaranteed to be better, but I wanted to make sure that anyone who downloaded my earlier Kontakt snapshots doesn't become disappointed in any way.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2020)

So, I am just trying to set this library up in VEPro but I am not able to load multiple instances of the ASC into Kontakt and then adjust the different MIDI-channels (as I would always do) because in the interface there doesn't seem to be this option. 





So do I have to set up one Kontakt instance PER section? I would like to avoid that.


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## soniccouture (May 13, 2020)

(click the 'i' icon next to the camera)


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## peterharket (Oct 1, 2022)

@soniccouture does the polyphonic legato work with the sustain pedal?


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