# Our last hope - lass remix



## synthetic (Jun 22, 2009)

[Updated, new mix 8/20/09]

Edit 8/20/09: here is a new mix using LA Scoring Strings instead of VSL Appasionata for the string parts. I've left my last mix there for comparison. I mainly did this as a test, will my Mac Pro 8-core (Nehelam) handle hosting LASS on a busy sequence? The answer was yes, I don't see any of the processors peaking, all of them were below 20% when I bounced. For some reason it took a few tries and CPU overloads before things smoothed out, maybe parts get cached behind the scenes or something? 

So, I thought people would be interested to hear a "shootout" of the two best string libraries, IMO. My take is that the LASS version sounds more realistic and has "air" to the performance. The VSL might be a bit thicker but starts to get that organy sound when playing the melody. I think this is a testament to the looser tuning in LASS (and SAM brass, etc.), stuff doesn't phase together and get the Mighty Wurlitzer effect. 

OK, this is not a scientific test. I edited the MIDI to fit the LASS samples better, turning CC11 into CC1 to take advantage of the controls LASS gives you. I also fixed stuff I heard, brass that was too loud, bad timing, etc. Finally, I doubled the last violin melody (3:00) with violas down an octave. 

That said, here you go:

LASS:
http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/jlai ... t_hope.mp3


VSL:
http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/jlai ... pe_vsl.mp3


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http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/jlai ... t_hope.mp3

This is a demo for a feature about kids fighting samurais. Kind of like Narnia. It's also 4 minutes long and the best bits are at the end. When will I learn to put the best bits in the first 30 seconds? 

I probably got carried away with the reverb because my PCM96 Surround is just so f$%*#g sweet. :D 

Questions, comments and especially criticism welcome. Thanks for listening.

[first mix: http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/jlaity_our_last_hope_05.mp3 (http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/jlai ... ope_05.mp3) ]


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## choc0thrax (Jun 22, 2009)

*Re: Our Last Hope*

I like the composition but it could use a lot of work in the realism department. I forget what Narnia sounds like but I instantly recognized similarities to Independence Day in places.


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## synthetic (Jun 22, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback. Anything specific that jumped out as non-realistic that I can work on?


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## choc0thrax (Jun 22, 2009)

*Re: Our Last Hope*

The strings are the biggest culprit. They are not very fluid which you can hear right away at the beginning. Starting at 15 seconds they have that sort of organ quality to them.


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## chimuelo (Jun 22, 2009)

*Re: Our Last Hope*

The attacks are what I found unrealistic actually, but they sounded fine when the French Horns were playing, but in solo the strings themselves are unrealistic, not your arrangement.
I recognize the Giga Percussion, and the Horn works sounds fine.
I also like the harp ambience you created too.
The press rolls of the snare seemed to die a little early for my tastes but I liked the arrangement.
In all honesty you need LASS as bad as I do. Our Giga stuff was great for a long time but long in the tooth unless you can arrange around it.
Great dynamics too, with a serious warrior spirit sound in it.
The PCM96 sounds much better than the 91's. It actually wraps itself around the source material like the old '70's do. They should have updated those w/ AES/EBU I/O's.
When this gets ported over to a PSP, PS3 or XBox 360 the reverb will be perfect, as kids love large tails....... :D 
Everytime I get a new DSP plug I suffer from wet-itis as I bath in the sound of my new toy.......................after a week you regian your sense of space, if not, find the biggest sewer coming off of the Santa Ana River and go scream for a while to get it out of your system. I often take my sons Bultaco 125 down there and wail....


Nice Job and congrats on the 96.
Hey can you make me some IR's with 25 second tails so I don't have to buy anyth :wink: ing???...............


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## Ed (Jun 22, 2009)

Hey synthetic you can improve those strings at the start a lot by increasing the releases. It wont be perfect but you can stop that "suck" sound at the ends of the notes.

I like the track though


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## synthetic (Jun 22, 2009)

Actually the strings are 90% VI Appasionata Strings 1. 

Yeah I really want LASS, but I could use a good choir library first. But, since none exists...


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## synthetic (Jun 22, 2009)

Any better? I worked on the strings a bunch tonight and fixed some timing problems. 

http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/jlaity_our_last_hope_06.mp3 (http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/jlai ... ope_06.mp3) 

Thanks for kicking my ass. I'm way too close to this at this point. I know the trumpet sounds synthy in a few spots, but don't know how to fix that with my current sample set.


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## Rob (Jun 23, 2009)

*Re: Our Last Hope*

I think the problem lies in not enough thinking how you want strings to phrase... when the noble theme c-f-f c-bb appears, it is not clear how the strings are intended to "say" the musical sentence. Is it like one of these?







or a still different one? And I'd suggest to have the cellos double the melody, as it deserves more body.
Just my 2 cents...

Roberto


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## synthetic (Jun 23, 2009)

The first one. Am I pumping the strings too much now? 

The orchestration is something I'm trying out from Harry Potter. Here's my reduction of that score fragment (4 bars of my reduction is legal to post for illustrative purposes, right?) 

http://www.jefflaity.com/scores/Williams-harry1.jpg

The above starts around bar 6 of the track "Harry's Wondrous World" from the Harry Potter & The Sorcerer's Stone soundtrack. 

Melody is violins, violas, clarinet, E Horn
Cello, oboe play ostinato
Bass, trombones, tuba play pad

I can scan my sketch of this cue if anyone is interested.


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## Hannes_F (Jun 23, 2009)

*Re: Our Last Hope*

Jeff,

I very much like the 'sound itself' and the spacing. The writing itself shows greatness and a strong sense for melody and drama.

Normally I shy away from detailled feedbacks these days but since we know each other for so long here are my notes where I would get into it if it were mine (this is referring to the first version you posted):

0:00 - 0:20 All notes equally loud really? There is one little echo but other than that not enough decision IMO. 
And: No accent on some upbeat, no accent on the downbeat?
0:04 the upbeat is somewhat contradicted by the fact that the second violin seems to miss. So is it accented or not?
0:17 Upbeat structure unclear and stumbling
0:20 What Rob says.
0:53 YOU can do better modulations 
1:18 ff. Violins washy
1:43 ff. can you spice up the snare somehow?
2:08 transition/upbeat unclear. How about using some more syncoping/odd beats?
2:08 the second note (the high one) needs more accent
2:42 I would work out the cello line more with some EQ @ 2 kHz
3:15 melody looses focus for one eighth note (or 16th)
3:28 after these great chords you can do better than this chromatic modulation

In general drums don't not really play in the pocket sometimes IMO.

Over all great work!

Best
Hannes


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## synthetic (Jun 23, 2009)

I changed my mind, no more criticism. 

Thanks everyone for taking the time.


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## synthetic (Jun 27, 2009)

OK, I reworked strings and percussion a bunch and changed the ending. I think it's there now Thanks again for all of your input. 

http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/jlaity_our_last_hope_07.mp3 (http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/jlai ... ope_07.mp3)


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## Dave Connor (Jun 28, 2009)

*Re: Our Last Hope*

Very nice writing. Did you have the release samples turned on in the string opening? (great stuff there btw.) That should help realism in a big way.

There are some balance issues and stage placement issues it seems. Also some harshness here and there. I had those problems forever until I got a lot of help from a pro sound guy. 

If you get everyone (with Altiverb?) placed where they belong depth-wise (early reflections) with proper wetness (tails), that will in itself help a whole lot any fundamental mixing issues. Then if you EQ out any harsh frequencies by checking each instrument soloed I think you will get to a better place mix-wise. Obviously any inferior samples will detract and be hard to remedy.

Your obvious talent shines through in any case so keep up the good work.


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## JohnG (Jun 28, 2009)

*Re: Our Last Hope*

it sounds good here.

There is some kind of weird panning thing going on with the strings, though, as if you have two libraries playing, with one that has release trails on one side, and one that has no release trails on the other side. I noticed this much more at the beginning, naturally.

Maybe I wouldn't have noticed this but I was listening through headphones.

Percussion sounds great. Trumpets sound very good for samples.

Nice work!!


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## synthetic (Jun 29, 2009)

*Re: Our Last Hope*

Thanks for the feedback. The release was turned on, and I automated it to be longer in the intro.



JohnG @ Sun Jun 28 said:


> There is some kind of weird panning thing going on with the strings, though, as if you have two libraries playing, with one that has release trails on one side, and one that has no release trails on the other side. I noticed this much more at the beginning, naturally.



Bizarre, it must be the reverb causing that. I'll have to see if I can increase the stereo separation in the box. Something to work on for the next one. Thanks again.


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## synthetic (Jul 3, 2009)

OK, I did one last mix. I worked on the reverb a bit to lessen the "autopan" effect on the violins. 

http://www.jefflaity.com/music/MP3/jlai ... t_hope.mp3


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## synthetic (Aug 20, 2009)

Remixed this using LASS and posted for the sake of comparison to VSL Appasionata Strings. See first post.


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## Ed (Aug 21, 2009)

I dont have LASS so I dont know what it is but I dont think this is showing it in the best light. i suspect its because it wasnt written for LASS but also I think you arent using all the different CC options to sculpt it. Im listening to the start since thats got most of the naked sustained strings. Maybe someone else can explain.


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## Hannes_F (Aug 21, 2009)

Something went wrong, the LASS version is way too hyped and bright. I guess you went for the "big" sound but when working over hours our ears want more and more and more brightness.

I would render the strings without any reverb or EQ and make them sing as good as possible even dry. Then add as little reverb as you must and hardly any EQ, if at all.


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## Hal (Aug 21, 2009)

*Re: Our Last Hope*



choc0thrax @ Mon Jun 22 said:


> I like the composition but it could use a lot of work in the realism department. I forget what Narnia sounds like but I instantly recognized similarities to Independence Day in places.



same here
i like the composition,
concerning realism again,the brass needs just a little work and the strings need a lot


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## Stevie (Aug 21, 2009)

The playing is not very fluent. You have too many caesura in the strings. It sounds too cut off. LASS has legato, make use of it!
And don't go too low with the modwheel. Try to keep the strings at an audible level.
The tom rhythm later on sounds too clumsy and leaves a gap.


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