# Putting together an orchestral template - tips?!



## TheUnfinished (Mar 16, 2011)

Hi guys,

Tonight I'm starting work on an orchestral template in Cubase, so that I can dive right into ideas quickly and then tweak more specifically later. I've been doing a lot of reading up on the subject (group channels, when to use insert/send effects, EQ, panning, what to put on the master bus, all sorts) and have found some great advice online (including here!) from people like James Semple, Alex Pfeffer and Rob Elliott.

So, I'll be using LASS Lite, VSL Special Edition, CineOrch, Komplete Pianos and Sampletekk Orchestral for the instruments and VSL Special Edition, Tonehammer stuff, Drums of War, Ethno World 4 and some Kontakt libraries for percussion - so I've got a mix of orchestral and ethnic percussion.

I'm planning on using the following group channels: Orchestra*, Strings Left, Strings Right, Winds Left, Winds Right, Brass Left, Brass Right, Percussion Booms/Big Hits, Percussion Large, Percussion Small, Percussion Sticks/Shakers, Percussion Metal, Tuned Percussion, Other (Harp/Piano).

I just thought I'd pop on here and see if anyone has any "Don't forget this!" or "I wish I hadn't done that!" bits of advice that I can apply?!

*This is just because I have CineOrch, to occasionally uses as a bit of 'orchestral glue'!

Cheers,
Matt


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## Dan Mott (Mar 16, 2011)

TheUnfinished @ Wed Mar 16 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Tonight I'm starting work on an orchestral template in Cubase, so that I can dive right into ideas quickly and then tweak more specifically later. I've been doing a lot of reading up on the subject (group channels, when to use insert/send effects, EQ, panning, what to put on the master bus, all sorts) and have found some great advice online (including here!) from people like James Semple, Alex Pfeffer and Rob Elliott.
> 
> ...



Hey man.

I'm not the pro, but I'll just say a few things that got my template finished and ready.


Obviously, take note in what you are mostly going to use throughout your projects. This includes sample libraries, mixer channels and buses and ofcourse plugins.

I suppose you cannot really regret what you do when creating a template, you can only learn more about what you need and don't need and you can either add or subtract along the way untill it best suits you.

I think busses and grouping are most important and it sounds like you have that covered mostly. Also note what plugins you will use most. I know this is pretty obvious, but I realised that I didn't need half the plugins I had loaded and ready to go on my tracks, so I got rid of them and saved memory usage within my host.

I also think that VE Pro is a great way to set up your instruments in and I highly suggest it for more organisation and to free up stress from cubase. It's also great because you can go from project to project without having to re-load anything.

Anyway, sorry if any of this was pointless, it's just what I did when I figured out my template, whch actually keeps growing


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## TheUnfinished (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks Dan (even confirming what I'm already thinking is advice!) and Pasi (I'll check that out when I get home from work).

There are things like Evolve, Silk and all my synths (especially Massive and Absynth) that I'm likely to use frequently, but their necessity and impact changes so dramatically from track to track that having them in my template might be either a) bloated, or b) irrelevant.

Cheers.


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## TheUnfinished (Mar 16, 2011)

gsilbers @ Wed Mar 16 said:


> brass left and brass right?
> 
> ive never heard that (or read that) before.
> 
> ...


Couple of reasons. Firstly, the visual positioning template I'm principally using separates the instruments high and low to a certain extent (basses, cellos, trombones, tubas on the right, doesn't work so well for winds admittedly!). But I plan to deal with high and low notes in a more divisi fashion.

Secondly, I felt that visually 'feeling' the placement of the orchestra would be helpful for me to learn a few things, so knowing what's on the left and what's on the right is useful in this respect.

I may be barking up a weird tree, but when I read about someone else using this format it struck a chord with me.


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## nickhmusic (Mar 16, 2011)

one of the main things I did was split up the Midi and Audio into separate Master Folders - and I also have the Midi set up in the traditional score layout.

I've found Folder tracks to be incredible time savers - essentially collapsing sections you need when you need them. I've also recently discovered the "enlarge selected track" so under normal conditions the track is as skinny as possible until I select it and need it for recording editing etc.

Also trying out the midi piano roll in the project window - I find this is great for writing in CC automation such as CC11 where you do your volume fadeouts. Having them one underneath the other on your actual project screen rather than having to go into the key editor for each midi track is a godsend IMHO.

Hope that helps


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## Stephen Baysted (Mar 16, 2011)

Couple of points - all IMO of course...

You should arrange your template so you can pull stems off quickly, so definitely group in 'high' and 'low' - it's what a producer will ask for. Left and right is odd. 

Don't necessarily think of things in a purely orthodox orchestral fashion. You don't have an orchestra you have samples and they need to sound, overall, as convincing as possible. So don't beat yourself up about strict divisi etc since it's pointless. If youre lucky enough to get a big gig with a big enough budget, you'll be able to use an orchestrator, so no worries. 

Take the best from each library. Try to blend libraries and combine patches.

Do, absolutely, have omnisphere and a piano in your template - if nothing else it'll prove that it will all work and run if u need it to. 

Cheers 

Stephen


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## TheUnfinished (Mar 17, 2011)

I'm really grateful for all the advice above. The idea of how to group the instruments is perhaps the most fluid element at the moment, so I'm taking note of the suggestions for high and low rather than spatial positioning groups.

Big thanks to Pasi for putting me onto Alex Pfeffer's tutorials. Very useful indeed.



Rousseau @ Wed Mar 16 said:


> Do, absolutely, have omnisphere and a piano in your template - if nothing else it'll prove that it will all work and run if u need it to.



I would put Omnisphere in there if I had it!

Cheers.


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## Polarity (Mar 17, 2011)

you listed strings, brass...
and winds? what about winds? do you think you won't need them?

I'd add also a group each one for synths, basses, guitars and piano. 

+1 about folder tracks, very useful.
I have grouped different sections (even different libraries) with them.
And also have a folder where I doubled different short articulations from different orchestral instruments (copied the tracks): 
so hitting on cubase the rec button on the folder automatically select all tracks/instruments within and play a "tutti layer" just for create basic ideas.

Agree about hi and low channels/groups for different mixes and EQ, and also I find the left/right distinction a bit strange/odd.


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## TheUnfinished (Mar 17, 2011)

Polarity said:


> you listed strings, brass...
> and winds? what about winds? do you think you won't need them?


I did. I absolutely need to start using winds more, I find them difficult to pick out when listening to film music, so need to experiment with them.



Polarity said:


> Agree about hi and low channels/groups for different mixes and EQ, and also I find the left/right distinction a bit strange/odd.


Agreed. It's looking more and more odd as the seconds pass by...


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## nickhmusic (Mar 17, 2011)

Polarity @ Thu Mar 17 said:


> And also have a folder where I doubled different short articulations from different orchestral instruments (copied the tracks):
> so hitting on cubase the rec button on the folder automatically select all tracks/instruments within and play a "tutti layer" just for create basic ideas.



Yes, this is an extremely helpful tool - I often use it for doubling cellos and basses legatos for LASS - setting the midi channel on the basses to be transposed down by 12. 

Having them in the folder as you want them and hitting record is ace - couldn't do without it.


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## TheUnfinished (Mar 19, 2011)

I checked out the following video by Alex Pfeffer about the Kontakt Memory Server.

http://www.youtube.com/user/alexpfefferdotnet#p/u/12/kimpo_DG8oc


Thought it looked like a cool trick for freeing up memory in my template. However, when I went into Kontakt (v4.2) these options weren't there. Am I missing something? Is it a Mac-only thing?

Cheers.


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## PasiP (Mar 19, 2011)

It's a Mac only thing.


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## TheUnfinished (Mar 19, 2011)

PasiP @ Sat Mar 19 said:


> It's a Mac only thing.



Thanks Pasi. And damn.


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