# Soulesque - Orchestral (LASS2, BWW, SM Brass, Spitfire)



## Blakus (Sep 8, 2012)

Inspired by some recent time I've spent in Guild Wars 2 (lol) - Sorry it cuts off, it's still a WIP.

http://soundcloud.com/blakus-mfm/before-the-war/download (http://soundcloud.com/blakus-mfm/before ... r/download)

Comments/criticism welcome!


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## Danny_Owen (Sep 8, 2012)

Hell of a sound, great little composition.

Hats off!


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## zacnelson (Sep 8, 2012)

I love this, this is of the highest quality as a composition and as an example of the usage of samples and mixing.

It was quite moving in places, I wish it was longer.


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## mark812 (Sep 8, 2012)

Great composition and production, I really love your work. I also wish this one was longer. 

Since you do great videos as well, please consider doing one about mixing and getting that awesome sound you've got. :mrgreen: 

Cheers. o-[][]-o


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## christianhowes (Sep 8, 2012)

Really artfully done, you've got a real handle on your use of the different libraries. I also liked the piece itself a lot, especially the run of chords from 1:10-1:17, and the resolution of the second-to-last to last among those chords.


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## Kralc (Sep 8, 2012)

Amazing, seriously amazing. You _need_ to continue this!


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## Blakus (Sep 8, 2012)

Thanks for all the kind comments guys! You have inspired me to keep going with this one. And Mark, I have been intending to put up (yet another) template video trying to explain how I have mixed everything - should be up soon.

Thanks again.


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## zacnelson (Sep 8, 2012)

Where are your previous videos?


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## Blakus (Sep 8, 2012)

I've extended the composition a little here: http://blakus.com/music/BlakusWars2.mp3
It's still missing some things, but where this ends I plan to use the original theme with some of the new elements introduced in the 'B' section - while engaging 'epic soaring' mode (haha).

Hey Zac, you can find a few of my Template walkthroughs at my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/blakusdotcom


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## zacnelson (Sep 8, 2012)

Thanks Blakus, I'll check out your youtube channel


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## Kralc (Sep 9, 2012)

Really liking the new part. 

Your music is getting me really interested in Sample Modeling Brass, you have Cinebrass too right? Obviously they have their differences, but which do you prefer? Might be a stupid question, just interested in your opinion.


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## NeWZ (Sep 9, 2012)

nice work!


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## Blakus (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks!

Clark - for me, the holy grail of brass is Sample Modeling, sitting perfectly on an orchestral stage. This has been a massive task, I've been working really hard to try and get it to sound right, with the help of others on this forum too. Because of the sample modeling approach, the instruments are just so awesomely playable and their sound (although bone dry) is totally accurate and seamless. If I can hear it in my head, I can play it with SM Brass, whereas I can't really say this about any other library that I own. (LASS gets very close). It has taken me a while to learn how to "perform" SM properly too (still learning), as you have to control every note attack and think about how a player would actually breathe and 'peak' each note. I love this aspect of it though, so much control and great realism if you get it right! I look at the difference being that SampleModeling requires me to do the performance, whereas traditional libraries in many ways are "locked in" to however the players transitioned, or bowed in the recordings.

I will point out that the other downside of SM Brass besides taking copious amounts of work to sound right, is that the instruments themselves take quite a lot of CPU. Also, the particular reverb I have applied to make SM sound right takes even more CPU! I'm talking a lot, lot, lot here - maxing out my cpu/asio in this piece. Upgrading my system a few weeks ago is what allowed me to even consider using a full SM brass section simultaneously in my template, and my previous computer was no slouch!

I am a massive fan of CineBrass too, it's tone out of the box sits perfectly in my template without extra effort. It has been the core of my brass template since it was released, and still gets a lot of use, - but I am really excited about how good I am able to get SM to sound now!

The other thing that I am really excited about, is that I can now write all individual parts for a full orchestra with BWW, SM Brass up and running properly. (Flute 1, Flute 2, Flute 3, / Horn 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.)


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## mark812 (Sep 9, 2012)

Blakus @ Sat Sep 08 said:


> Thanks for all the kind comments guys! You have inspired me to keep going with this one. And Mark, I have been intending to put up (yet another) template video trying to explain how I have mixed everything - should be up soon.
> 
> Thanks again.



Great Blakus, looking forward to it! Keep up the great work.


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## TGV (Sep 9, 2012)

Well, your hard work did pay off, because it sounds pretty darn nice. The composition is good too, and nicely orchestrated.


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## Kralc (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks for taking the time to write that Blakus. Hmm, the CPU might be an issue for me. :( It sounds fantastic though!

Looking forward to that epic soaring mode..


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## Blakus (Sep 10, 2012)

Thanks TGV! I appreciate it.


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## PMortise (Sep 10, 2012)

Bravo Blackus! Works like this really inspire me to keep digging deeper.
Thanks for posting it. o-[][]-o


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## Blakus (Sep 12, 2012)

Thanks PMortise for the kind words!

For those that are bored - here is a bit of a walkthrough of my template that I use for this piece. I try to discuss my approach to mixing and reverb (try).


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## mojamusic (Sep 12, 2012)

Very nice work here! 

The string parts sound fantastic. I would love to know how you used LASS 2 (the divis and ARC features, if used).


Very well crafted. lease keep up the great work.


Myron


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## zacnelson (Sep 12, 2012)

Wow Blakus! Thanks so much for that video, I watched it very keenly. That has to be the best instructional walk-through video I've seen, there was so much helpful information to glean. I'm encouraged to see how simple your setup is, and that you don't feel the need to do aggressive EQ or compression settings on each instrument to get them to sit right. I agree with you that volume and midi automation are the main keys.

Also it's good to see you can get such great results with a cheap reverb. I too have a 2C audio reverb, although I've got Aether, but I imagine the results would be similar (if I knew what I was doing which i don't!!)

This video also serves as a fantastic advertisement for the various libraries, I find these user demos to be the ultimate taster of the libraries, and I trust it so much more than the demoes or videos provided by some (not all) of the various companies. I certainly have a new shortlist of brass and woodwind desired purchases.

It was great to see you flick between the various midi tracks while the music was playing; I was encouraged to see that your mod wheel curves look a lot like what mine look like! Sometimes I doubt myself but this was a nice bit of confirmation.

I had a few clarification questions:
1) Do you use Lass 1 or 2? If Lass 2, what stage and colour settings do you employ (if any)?
2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you have 2 separate instances of Breeze running? And was the first one you showed us ONLY doing a tail, so you actually turn of the ER part of the reverb? 
3) If there were 2 reverbs, and you sent some dry instruments to the one with an ER and tail, did you ALSO send those dry instruments to the `master' reverb which provided the main tail? Or did the ER reverb actually have the tail turned off entirely?
4) With Albion, what was your mix of mic settings? Do you just use one of the 4 available? It didn't sound like the close mics. I assume your choice of mics would also dictate how high the reverb send is for Albion?
5) You said you were using the Spitfire percussion... is this their separate percussion library, or the percussion included with Albion? (I assume not Albion)
6) Do you add any extra master bus effects when you do a final bounce, for example, a multi-band compressor, tape simulator, subtle overall EQ, and limiter?

Thanks in advance! You have been very generous sharing this video and I hope many more watch it. Now you need to get cracking and finish off that composition - using all the suggestions in my private message of course 

PS My wife hates me too.....


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## Kralc (Sep 13, 2012)

Very nice! Feeling quite inadequate about my template now...


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## Ganvai (Sep 13, 2012)

Wow, really a very good track and it really remembers me to the Guild Wars Score on several parts.

Very good Blakus!


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## zacnelson (Sep 13, 2012)

Sorry I just realised it says LASS 2 on your thread title so that part of my question was redundant


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## Blakus (Sep 13, 2012)

Thanks again guys! It's nice when others enjoy your music!

Zac, thanks for the compliments about the walkthrough - glad you found it useful!
To answer some of your questions:
1. LASS2 (as you already noted) I am using the Batman colour profile.

2. I am just using B2 reverb and not Breeze reverb - although I think I did have an old left over breeze channel sitting in that template, definitely not using it though. The one called 'Berlin' is just a hall reverb, a nice longish tail. There was no ER part to turn off.

3. The ER reverb you are referring to is very short and has no tail - it just pushes the sound back further as well as rolling off some high frequencies quite effectively. This was the custom algorithm I mentioned and the most important thing is that it is 100% wet and run as an insert. Sam from this forum introduced me to this method - he does fantastic things with Altiverb as well. It is almost like a 'filter' placed over the instrument. After this stage the signal is then sent to the standard Berlin Hall preset like all the other instruments. I should have demonstrated the sound with the tail off so you could hear the effect of the ER in the video. But here is an audio file that plays the brass totally dry firstly, and then JUST the 'ER' algorithm is enabled second time through with no tail. It's more of a nice clean room sound. (In my opinion at least haha). 

http://www.blakus.com/music/SMExample.mp3 (I know this is your favourite part too Zac, LOL!)

4. I tend not to use the close mics with any libraries if I have the choice. With Albion and most other spitfire stuff I run tree and ambient at default levels. And yes, this is why I don't really need to send too much to the reverb.

5. Correct, I use Spitfire Percussion - love this library  

6. I don't add anything at all to the master bus even with my final bounces. I might be crazy or some might even say primitive in this regard haha! But in line with my whole philosophy of "the less I have to touch it the better". Two of the main things I love about orchestral music is the freedom (which you and I have already discussed!) and the dynamics! I cry whenever an engineer has to tame my beloved dynamics in post!

Hope this is sort of what you were after! 
LOL @ the wife. Seriously my wife is so patient, I'm not in a sound proof room, she hears a LOT of the same phrases over and over and over and over. She deserves a medal. Behind every good composer is a wife that hates his music though right? (Or husband of course for you ladies out there).


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## mark812 (Sep 13, 2012)

Great video Blakus, thanks very much for doing it! 2 quick questions:

1.) How much reverb do you use for CineBrass in terms of send level? Since it's a bit drier than Spitfire and Adagio decca trees.

2.) Do you use any other plugins except tail reverb on the master bus to "glue" everything together?

Thanks!  

edit: And the 3rd question :oops: - Would you use the same reverb treatment that you used for LASS when working with VSL woods for example? I saw in one of your previous videos when you still used VSL woods that you used 2caudio Breeze (Scoring Stage preset with around 50% mix). 

Did you leave it like that or send it to the master verb like wet libraries?


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## ontrackmusic (Sep 13, 2012)

Really great sounding piece and mix...very impressed. One technical question: 

For the SM Brass 100% verb: Instead of using multiple inserts set at 100% wet, would it not be preferable to use a dedicated reverb instance on an Aux and route the SM tracks to it using pre-fader sends, killing the dry signal with the fader? Seems like that would greatly reduce the CPU strain, since in the video I think you said you use exactly the same algorithm for each instrument. Or is there another reason to have separate instances on inserts for each SM instrument?

Good grief that brass sounds terrific in the passage at 17:53 in the video...I'm a sucker for a good #4-3 resolution. Beautiful composition...


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## zacnelson (Sep 13, 2012)

Thanks so much for your detailed responses Blakus! I would like to echo Erik's question, that was the one thing that I was a little confused about.

Yes, my poor wife has to hear the SAME old songs day in day out, I do all my music in one of the bedrooms of our small house which is right next to the lounge room/kitchen area, although to be considerate I use headphones almost all the time! I get so excited when she's out because then I really pump up the monitors, although then I spend the next half an hour removing all the treble that I had slowly EQed into all my music whilst using my bass-heavy headphones..... (smacks head on forehead in frustration!!)


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## benmrx (Sep 13, 2012)

Just wanted to say thanks for posting the walkthough. I've just started putting my new template together a few days ago and this just answered a few questions. It's sort a Jr. version of what you've got going on. I like how you organized your tracks with a seperate section just for Adagio, etc. 

Here's a couple questions, if you get a chance.

1) How do you 'start' the process of balancing the various levels. Do you put the string section together with LASS..., write a small cue that has a large dynamic range...., get it sounding good (or acceptable for the time being) and then add in Adagio.. do another test....., then Brass, fine tuning things as you build the orchestra up...? 

1B) If you do build up your template a section at a time, do you find it best to start with strings and balance everything around that?

2) Are you doing much A/B'ing with various scores or soundtracks?

3) What's your monitoring level? When you've got horns going at FFF, are you blasting (hence the wife annoyance...., my wife hates it too ), or is it a reasonable volume? I've been going over all the insanely good information by Mike Verta, and there's some good bits about monitoring levels...., just curious. I come from a producer/mixer background, and we generally mix pretty quiet most of the time..., but I'm finding that it's leading me to bias my orchestral dynamics to being too strong/loud.


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## zacnelson (Sep 13, 2012)

Hehehe we need to start a 'wife management and monitoring levels' thread!!!


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## Blakus (Sep 14, 2012)

Thanks Erik, Mark and Ben

@Erik and Zac - Regarding the individual ER instances for each brass section, Strangely I've noticed no difference in CPU usage with just one, or the 3 instances engaged, which is confusing! But the main reason Ive left them separate is that I have panned the section buses with ER as well. This was quite an improvement in the sound to me, rather than leaving the ER centre. There is still probably a more efficient way to do this, but since there seemed to be no performance difference I haven't bothered. 

@Mark - I have experimented with reverbs on LASS and I just simply send it to a hall tail reverb now and am quite happy. VSL however is more dry than LASS, and in these situations I use the 50% wet breeze preset you are referring to. As far as reverb levels on CineBrass go, I have the send at a little less than LASS and more than wet libraries like Albion. Just trust your ears on this one though, it really spends on which reverb your using. Read my last comment in this thread to see my opinion on master bus effects. 

@benmrx - glad the video was useful! I started my balancing process in just the way you have suggested, with strings! I do many many remakes of well known compositions that I like and am familiar with, also A/B'ing a lot along the way. First I aimed to get my strings sounding right and balanced by mocking up a string only piece that uses many articulations and dynamics ranging from very quiet to very loud. Once I am happy with this, I moved on to brass/woods, doing the same process and adding them in combination with the strings. 

Monitoring level is massively important, and I think my mixes have improved a lot since I turned up the level that I monitor at. An FFF passage for me is at a volume where I can start to feel the power without going overboard though. (For me this is basically whatever level I think my wife will put up with, plus a few db ). I try wherever possible to leave my monitors at this static volume at all times. As you say, quiet monitoring levels cause me to get the dynamics of my orchestral totally wrong. I don't even bother trying to create much if I have to 'be quiet' or use headphones now days. It usually ends up in unsatisfactory results and tears for me, haha!


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## mark812 (Sep 14, 2012)

Blakus @ Fri Sep 14 said:


> @Mark - I have experimented with reverbs on LASS and I just simply send it to a hall tail reverb now and am quite happy. VSL however is more dry than LASS, and in these situations I use the 50% wet breeze preset you are referring to. As far as reverb levels on CineBrass go, I have the send at a little less than LASS and more than wet libraries like Albion. Just trust your ears on this one though, it really spends on which reverb your using. Read my last comment in this thread to see my opinion on master bus effects.



Thanks Blakus! I'm going to experiment as well. Damn, your videos even made me seriously consider buying Sample Modelling Brass! :D 

Just to be sure - on VSL stuff you have that 50% wet Breeze as an insert and than send it to the master reverb at around Cinebrass send levels or just leave it with Breeze only?


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## Blakus (Sep 14, 2012)

mark812 @ Fri Sep 14 said:


> Just to be sure - on VSL stuff you have that 50% wet Breeze as an insert and than send it to the master reverb at around Cinebrass send levels or just leave it with Breeze only?



Actually, I never used to add any more tail to that breeze preset for VSL winds. In fact, I think it was just the standard breeze default load settings that just seemed to work for me haha! I never did spend a lot of time trying to get VSL to sit right though because I didn't like using it that much.


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## mark812 (Sep 14, 2012)

Blakus @ Fri Sep 14 said:


> mark812 @ Fri Sep 14 said:
> 
> 
> > Just to be sure - on VSL stuff you have that 50% wet Breeze as an insert and than send it to the master reverb at around Cinebrass send levels or just leave it with Breeze only?
> ...



I'll try to experiment with it since I have to use them until I get BWW. 

That Breeze setup works really well for VSL and I suppose that putting it as an insert and then sending it just a bit (maybe -8, -10 db) to add a little bit of "glue" should work well.

Do you set up FX channel track or group channel for master reverb?


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## Blakus (Sep 14, 2012)

Yeah that would work well. I set up my main reverb as an FX channel track.


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## David3D (Sep 17, 2012)

This was incredible! I loved it! The horns are quite good. Who knew you could get such a great sound out of such a plain sounding library.

I just have a question, I'm not sure if its my personal preference or my brain interpreting the piece differently, but at 0:59 seconds, did you consider holding the woodwinds on that particular note rather than drop them down one as per 1:01?
I don't know why, but every time I hear that part my head thinks the note will continue then it drops down.

Also, is there any chance of doing a whole video on composing a piece like this to show us your work-flow, how you generate/perfect ideas, where you start, where you finish and what you do first?

Great job! I will be watching all your videos.


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## Blakus (Sep 17, 2012)

Hi David,
Thanks for your comments mate! It's funny you mention that note actually, I wasn't sure whether to hold it or to step down, but I eventually went with the step down - no particular reason at all though really!

Thanks for that video idea too. I'll attempt to make one along those lines in the future, although it may be a little underwhelming as my composition process is fairly unstructured! (Kind of like my brain) :lol:


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## David3D (Sep 17, 2012)

Blakus @ Tue Sep 18 said:


> Hi David,
> Thanks for your comments mate! It's funny you mention that note actually, I wasn't sure whether to hold it or to step down, but I eventually went with the step down - no particular reason at all though really!
> 
> Thanks for that video idea too. I'll attempt to make one along those lines in the future, although it may be a little underwhelming as my composition process is fairly unstructured! (Kind of like my brain) :lol:



Awesome! The only reason I suggested it was because I am struggling to work out the process as to getting my piece to a similar standard as yours. I have hundreds of ideas in my head but for some reason, every time I plonk myself infront of the keyboard, I go totally blank and give up. I'm not sure if thats my playing skill or the fact I just don't know where to start.


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