# Delivering Stems for Production Music - which groups?



## Jaybee (Feb 2, 2016)

I've done a few searches and as someone quite new to this industry I may well be using the wrong terminology which is why I can't find the answer so bear with me! 

I'm on the finishing stages of my first ever template. It seems to have taken weeks to assemble but I'm finally getting it to work for me. It has virtually every sample library in it I've amassed so far plus audio-in tracks from my Kemper for Guitars/Bass etc. 

I get the impression from doing lots of reading that delivering a regular Stereo mix plus some Stems for each track is likely to be the requested format from some Libraries. I often see libraries offering mixes without the melody line or without the strings or just the underscore elements etc. I want to build this functionality into my template. 

What I can't find the answer to is what _Stem groups_ do Libraries normally request and how many? 

Not every track has a wide mix of instruments but a few I've currently got underway combine orchestral with guitars, sfx & synths etc. Trying to think what I'd want to receive if I was asking for Stems & I came up with the following Stem groups: 

Orchestral
Bass
Percussion (inc Drum kit etc)
Keyboards
Guitars
Vox
SFX

Is that in the right ballpark for Stem delivery? Too many? Would be very interested in your thoughts before I get underway programming & routing again.


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## Dean (Feb 2, 2016)

For trailer clients you would seperate the sections of the orchestra /all solo instruments / SFX and (if needed) seperate certain instruments within some of these groupings ie: 'sub boom hits' and 'metal' percussion(chimes/Cymbals etc.) or a high trebly synth arp from a deep sub drone,(as you can imagine these different instruments would require completely different EQing / level control / compression and so on, for trailer and film scores its important to have any 'high piercing' or sub bass instruments on seperate stems aswell the usual stems.

When making more detailed stems [for a music editor who 'wont' try to rewrite your track.} 

strings legato
strings ostinato
brass
woodwinds
perc metal [timps/cymbals/anvils/chimes etc.]
perc main [mid hits/drums/snares etc.]
perc sub booms
choirs
solo vox
piano
guitar
bass
synth [arps/pulses/bass]
synth [pads]
synth [sub drone]
sfx

Less detailed trailer stems;

strings
brass
woodwinds
perc
choirs
pianos
guitars 
synths
sfx

(it varies but that would be the general list.)
Dean


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## NoamL (Feb 2, 2016)

Think about it from a mixing perspective more than an orchestration perspective. You want to deliver in groups that make sense to edit together. So for example, String Shorts is a different beast than String Longs in your typical hybrid production because the former will have the motor elements and the latter will be pads and melodies.

Similarly perc is often subdivided-

PBH = piano bells harp, anything tinkly is crucial to isolate to this stem
PercMetals
PercDrums
and then even EthDrums on some projects.


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## doctornine (Feb 3, 2016)

The simple answer is : it depends on the library. No two seem to have the same pref's for stems and if it's a trailer library, chances are it'll be a stem for every (component) part.


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## Jaybee (Feb 3, 2016)

Dean, NoamL, Doctornine, 

Thanks for your very helpful thoughts! I thought six Stems would be too many  I can see that flexibility is going to be key here and that there's not one size that's going to fit all so I'll make sure that I can pop out "all the colours in all the sizes" if necessary. 

Incredibly helpful, thank you all.


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## JT3_Jon (Feb 3, 2016)

6 stems is in no way too many. I recently finished some tracks for a trailer company and we had 50+ stems of synths alone, not to mention the live orchestra. But we were having them mixed by someone, and I always error on too much separation as they can always combine as needed on their end, but cannot separate without contacting you (and they wont haha). But at the basic level I always see at least all the orchestra divided into hi/low & short/long. Solo instruments always on their own stem, Vocals / choir on their own stem separated by lead and backing, Synths separated by pulses high / low, pads, bass, lead, etc. and percussion is grouped by type (snare, BD, glock, celesta, cym) and/or similar items (i.e. big drums, metal hits, synthetic, etc). But really this depends on how much control you want to give someone. Sometimes less is more


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## Dean (Feb 3, 2016)

Jaybee said:


> Dean, NoamL, Doctornine,
> 
> Thanks for your very helpful thoughts! I thought six Stems would be too many  I can see that flexibility is going to be key here and that there's not one size that's going to fit all so I'll make sure that I can pop out "all the colours in all the sizes" if necessary.
> 
> Incredibly helpful, thank you all.



There are different reasons for doing stems,..if I was bouncing stems for a mix I would probably do about 30 stems or more but if the mix is complete and youre just sending printed/grouped stems to a clients music editor for a trailer pitch then 10 or 12 stems is more than enough,..otherwise the client could start pulling apart and rewriting your cue if they have 30/40 stems in front of them. Also you'll start getting much more picky notes,..mo stems,mo problems! 

D


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## Daryl (Feb 3, 2016)

You must also note the difference between a production music library and a trailer library. For production music there are usually far fewer stems, and in the case of live recordings there are certain things that you wouldn't split up, simply because they were recorded together. I also know one major production music company that doesn't require any stems. They just use alternative versions instead.

To put this into perspective, I have a colleague who does trailers from time to time, and he always gets asked to provide stems. I've been working in production music for 17 years, and have only had to provide stems on two occasions.


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## Jaybee (Feb 3, 2016)

Dean said:


> ..otherwise the client could start pulling apart and rewriting your cue if they have 30/40 stems in front of them. Also you'll start getting much more picky notes,..mo stems,mo problems!
> 
> D



Yes! I can see problems arising from too much choice. Looks like this will need to be addressed on a case by case basis. 



Daryl said:


> You must also note the difference between a production music library and a trailer library. For production music there are usually far fewer stems...



I'm no doubt being paranoid about this template setup and wanting it to have longevity and last for a while without any major reworking. The routing has been a real brain teaser (I've never had this many tracks in play before) and I'm one of those people who moves onto another project 100% and then can't remember why/what I did six weeks ago, so I don't want to have to revisit it in six months and mess with the routing _too_ much! 

Really helpful guys. Thanks again.


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## gsilbers (Feb 3, 2016)

Jaybee said:


> I've done a few searches and as someone quite new to this industry I may well be using the wrong terminology which is why I can't find the answer so bear with me!
> 
> I'm on the finishing stages of my first ever template. It seems to have taken weeks to assemble but I'm finally getting it to work for me. It has virtually every sample library in it I've amassed so far plus audio-in tracks from my Kemper for Guitars/Bass etc.
> 
> ...




If you are working on a template, then do your stems as you would like to separate them. its different for stem deliveries.

when submitting stems you have to think how a video editor would use them. if you have a lead electric guitar
playing a melody somewhere in the middle of a rock track then you would want to separate the guitar stems to have a stem with rhythmic electric and another with the lead. that way the video editor can easily remove the lead if it doesn't go with the program on screen. same for orchestral, EDM or whatever.

separate the melody or any instruments doing a lead that's upfront. separate any weird instrument. separate sfxs.
basically, the video editor would fly in all your stems into his Avid and use your tracks as a construction kit. they will not be able to edit out a section with a solo as its difficult for them to edit that way. they will solo that stem.

you will also soon learn that a lot of production music libraries are asking for alternative mixes. so mix minus guitar lead. or mix minus guitar. or mix minus orchestra.

so in other words, use your template to mix the stems and separate as many as possible but for deliveries you will have to choose depending on the content material.


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## kunst91 (Feb 3, 2016)

Dean said:


> For trailer clients you would seperate the sections of the orchestra /all solo instruments / SFX and (if needed) seperate certain instruments within some of these groupings ie: 'sub boom hits' and 'metal' percussion(chimes/Cymbals etc.) or a high trebly synth arp from a deep sub drone,(as you can imagine these different instruments would require completely different EQing / level control / compression and so on, for trailer and film scores its important to have any 'high piercing' or sub bass instruments on seperate stems aswell the usual stems.
> 
> When making more detailed stems [for a music editor who 'wont' try to rewrite your track.}
> 
> ...



Dean this is insanely helpful thank you.


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## SillyMidOn (Feb 16, 2016)

Jaybee said:


> I've done a few searches and as someone quite new to this industry I may well be using the wrong terminology which is why I can't find the answer so bear with me!
> 
> I'm on the finishing stages of my first ever template. It seems to have taken weeks to assemble but I'm finally getting it to work for me. It has virtually every sample library in it I've amassed so far plus audio-in tracks from my Kemper for Guitars/Bass etc.
> 
> ...



You absolutely need to ask the publisher what they want. There is a difference between trailer libraries, and normal libraries. A lot of normal libraries don't want stems at all, and it they do, usually not more than 10 max, but you really need to ask them. Don't send them 18 stems - they will do their nut. Instead they might want cut-down versions (60 sec 30 sec edits), but they should tell you.

Even amongst trailer libraries there are big variations of how many stems they want. Again, some don't want more then 10, some as many stems as make sense, some ask for every track separately (so all the audio), and create the stems themselves.

Again, you need to ask what they want, don't assume, or you may waste a fair bit of your own and their time.


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## Jaybee (Feb 17, 2016)

SillyMidOn said:


> Again, you need to ask what they want, don't assume, or you may waste a fair bit of your own and their time.



Fear not I'm still in the 'getting my act together' stage. I've been building a lot of flexibility into the template so I can hopefully deliver what is required without too much re-routing surgery  Will be asking lots of questions and studying specification requirements once I get to that stage. Cheers!


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## Dean (Feb 17, 2016)

Jaybee said:


> Fear not I'm still in the 'getting my act together' stage. I've been building a lot of flexibility into the template so I can hopefully deliver what is required without too much re-routing surgery  Will be asking lots of questions and studying specification requirements once I get to that stage. Cheers!



Another thing when talking to clients,..always pretend you know exactly what you're doing re stems/specs etc,..then Google it.  
D


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