# BBC - Core (worth the grab)



## constaneum (May 7, 2020)

Been hearing the cons more than pros on this BBC product. Is it worth the grab for having another separate set of sound? The strings sounds pretty good though.


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## stonzthro (May 7, 2020)

The answer to your question is always 'Yes'. 

It all depends on what you already have and what type of music you compose. There are several sounds in BBC that are fantastic, some are just OK.


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## constaneum (May 7, 2020)

I'm just doing normal orchestral writing. Nothing epic or modern orchestra sounding. Just normal writing with standard orchestra percussion. Nothing Hans Zimmer like...more towards John Williams approach


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## constaneum (May 7, 2020)

stonzthro said:


> The answer to your question is always 'Yes'.
> 
> It all depends on what you already have and what type of music you compose. There are several sounds in BBC that are fantastic, some are just OK.



What are fantastic???


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## Jett Hitt (May 7, 2020)

Whether this library is worth it for you depends entirely upon you and what you write. For me personally, it is all I use since I got it. I have SSO and CSS and CSB to name a few, but BBCSO gives me the sort of sound that I would hear in a concert hall, whereas those other big libraries give me a Hollywood sound. They all sound fantastic in different ways, but since I write concert music and not trailers, BBCSO really appeals to me.


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## mybadmemory (May 7, 2020)

Does anyone have a list of exactly which instruments are missing from core? I know about the solo strings, but what others?

And could someone elaborate on the potential reasoning behind including soloists for winds and brass but not for strings?


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## constaneum (May 7, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> Does anyone have a list of exactly which instruments are missing from core? I know about the solo strings, but what others?
> 
> And could someone elaborate on the potential reasoning behind including soloists for winds and brass but not for strings?



The woodwinds.


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## Rob (May 7, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> Does anyone have a list of exactly which instruments are missing from core? I know about the solo strings, but what others?
> 
> And could someone elaborate on the potential reasoning behind including soloists for winds and brass but not for strings?


Common orchestral writing...quite normal for winds to do solo passages, much less (though it happens) for the strings


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## Guy Rowland (May 7, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> Does anyone have a list of exactly which instruments are missing from core? I know about the solo strings, but what others?



The very lowest contra-winds are missing, I think Bassoon is the lowest it goes. A definitive list would be helpful though.


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## Bluemount Score (May 7, 2020)

Guy Rowland said:


> The very lowest contra-winds are missing, I think Bassoon is the lowest it goes. A definitive list would be helpful though.


Correct. Also no such thing as a Contrabass tuba / Contrabass trombone in core


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## Bluemount Score (May 7, 2020)

constaneum said:


> What are fantastic???


I use strings and woodwinds a lot. Most fantastic is the room tone if you ask me, which of course you get in core as well...


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## TGV (May 8, 2020)

Guy Rowland said:


> The very lowest contra-winds are missing, I think Bassoon is the lowest it goes. A definitive list would be helpful though.


There's a list on their web page: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/bbc-symphony-orchestra-core/. Scroll down to
*What's included*


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## Magnet (May 8, 2020)

I was thinking about getting this and was wondering how nice it would play with Cinesamples, so I could lean on the strengths of each. They were both recorded on scoring stages (I did some research and BBCSO room is roughly 750 sq meters, Cinesamples is 600 sq meters). I expect some tweaks will be needed to get them to feel like they're in the same room, but it seems like they shouldn't be too far away from each other to begin with?


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## constaneum (May 8, 2020)

like wise, i'm wondering how it'll work with CSB since Brass is the weakest in BBCSO


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## muk (May 8, 2020)

Compiled a list of the instruments that are not included in 'Core':


strings leaders
bass flute
cor anglais
bass clarinet
contrabass clarinet
contrabassoon
contrabass trombone
contrabass tuba
crotales
vibraphone 
The only other difference seems to be the missing mic perspectives and mix 2.

I would have liked to have the spill mics. But are these and the instruments listed above worth double the price? I probably would have end up using mix 1 with a bit of the full spill mic blended in most of the time anyways.


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## Sovereign (May 8, 2020)

Jett Hitt said:


> but BBCSO gives me the sort of sound that I would hear in a concert hall


That is funny considering Maida Vale Studios is a recording studio space, not a "concert hall".


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## Eptesicus (May 8, 2020)

Its certainly a good deal if you don't have anything/much in the way of orchestral libraries already.

HOD is around the same price though at the momemt and arguably could be considered better and has even more content and mic positions. However it is awkward to work with compared to modern stuff (I don't have bbcso but it looks much easier to use). 

Before EW announced opus I would have said bbcso as you could upgrade to Pro and the interface of HOD is a bit dated , but now if you get HOD you could upgrade to opus which sounds very promising indeed in terms of new content and usability.


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## vividmoog (May 8, 2020)

Yes, bought and downloaded on VE Day.

Regards


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## THW (May 8, 2020)

I’m on the fence. I went in on the cinesamples deal and love many of the samples, but am not a fan of the GUI and struggle to write with it. This is likely due to me not spending enough time learning it. I think I might be in that “I need more instruments” mindset, and yet, spitfire has treated me well. I love Albion one, and inspiration just flows when I sketch with it. I hope this would do the same and fill a gap that I’m feeling with cinesamples.


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## Bluemount Score (May 8, 2020)

constaneum said:


> like wise, i'm wondering how it'll work with CSB since Brass is the weakest in BBCSO


That's exactly the combo I'm trying out, currently


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## Zero&One (May 8, 2020)

muk said:


> The only other difference seems to be the missing mic perspectives and mix 2.
> 
> I would have liked to have the spill mics. But are these and the instruments listed above worth double the price? I probably would have end up using mix 1 with a bit of the full spill mic blended in most of the time anyways.



Not worth double in my opinion. As you well know, that money could buy other instruments, if not better ones.

For me, that's the part that sucks about this. If they had released this extra content with an option to "pro it up" fair enough. But when people mention this, we are called moaners, self centered and the world doesn't revolve around us. No, I just like fair treatment and options, neither of which were shown here.


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## Scamper (May 8, 2020)

constaneum said:


> like wise, i'm wondering how it'll work with CSB since Brass is the weakest in BBCSO



I think CSB/CSS and BBCSO (Core) would work quite well together, since they're both recorded in a relatively dry room. I'm also planning to beef up my CSS Basses with the ones in BBCSO, since I used SCS for that until now.
Just waiting for my discount, then I'm excited to get BBCSO Core and try this out.


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## Saya (May 8, 2020)

wonder here if anyone knows does spitefire offers core to pro update as they normally do?


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## Gingerbread (May 8, 2020)

I'm also curious if Spitfire has mentioned an upgrade path from Core to Pro. I'm guessing that since no one has mentioned an upgrade price here, they haven't. At least, not yet.


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## yiph2 (May 8, 2020)

Gingerbread said:


> I'm also curious if Spitfire has mentioned an upgrade path from Core to Pro. I'm guessing that since no one has mentioned an upgrade price here, they haven't. At least, not yet.


It's on the FAQ, its the price difference between them


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## Gingerbread (May 8, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> It's on the FAQ, its the price difference between them


Thanks for the info. That's a rather impressive deal.


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## AndyP (May 8, 2020)

Magnet said:


> I was thinking about getting this and was wondering how nice it would play with Cinesamples, so I could lean on the strengths of each. They were both recorded on scoring stages (I did some research and BBCSO room is roughly 750 sq meters, Cinesamples is 600 sq meters). I expect some tweaks will be needed to get them to feel like they're in the same room, but it seems like they shouldn't be too far away from each other to begin with?


I have exchanged Brass from BBCSO for Cinebrass and I will definitely stay with Cinebrass. Fits together quite well so far.


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## muziksculp (May 8, 2020)

Why do you think BBCSO Core Brass is weak ?

I liked the way the brass sounds in the walkthrough, I'm tempted to get BBCSO Core, but I'm still undecided.


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## muk (May 8, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Why do you think BBCSO Core Brass is weak ?



Without owning it, it's audible that it misses dynamic layers:



I see cc1 moving to almost 127, but I don't hear any change in timbre. And it seems to be the same for all brass. There seem to be only two dynamic layers, piano and mezzoforte.

Some users have reported additional problems for the horn, like tuning, inconsistent embouchure and so on.

I was about to buy either core or pro. But then, hearing the 'Waltz of the Flowers' demo and the 'Symphonic Dances' immediately put me off. These are the only two classical demos, and to my ears, they don't sound good. It's a tough one for me to decide.


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## muziksculp (May 8, 2020)

muk said:


> Without owning it, it's audible that it misses dynamic layers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree. After listening to the walkthrough one more time, I hear very little dynamic change in the brass. 

I also don't like the way any of the Core demos sound.


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## Go To 11 (May 8, 2020)

Sovereign said:


> That is funny considering Maida Vale Studios is a recording studio space, not a "concert hall".


And originally a roller disco! But I know what you mean of course. It’s for recordings, not an audience venue. (Except a recent Slipknot live set - on youtube, and maybe a handful of others).


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## peladio (May 9, 2020)

stonzthro said:


> There are several sounds in BBC that are fantastic, some are just OK.



+1..most are just OK in my opinion..


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## tav.one (May 9, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> It's on the FAQ, its the price difference between them


So if you opted in for "Free" discover, you can get core for $299 between 23rd May and 31st May? 

If the Mix of Discover suits the music that I do then I'm definitely upgrading to Core.


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## yiph2 (May 9, 2020)

tav.one said:


> So if you opted in for "Free" discover, you can get core for $299 between 23rd May and 31st May?
> 
> If the Mix of Discover suits the music that I do then I'm definitely upgrading to Core.


I hope so 
Doubt it though


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## ed buller (May 9, 2020)

It's a fantastic library. The Pro Version has the following downsides. Not enough dynamics on some sounds and therefore fairly obvious cross fades. Dynamics are limited...basically ff is your lot. French horns are pretty wimpy......everything else is bliss. The first sample library I have ever heard that sounds cohesive and real as a collection. I use it all the time ( albeit with CINEBRASS).

best

ed


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## gsilbers (May 9, 2020)

interesting comparing it to the eastwesto orchestra. 





Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST Plugin | EastWest


Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition VST plugin is an award winning virtual orchestra. Includes Orchestrator for creating blockbuster soundtracks in seconds.




www.soundsonline.com





too bad EW doesnt have "gold" demos to show just 1 mic examples like the core version . 


i guess the pro version would be more comparable in demos








Spitfire Audio — BBC Symphony Orchestra Professional






www.spitfireaudio.com





interesting that both sounds great.. but like two different movies soundtrack.


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## Rossy (May 9, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> Does anyone have a list of exactly which instruments are missing from core? I know about the solo strings, but what others?
> 
> And could someone elaborate on the potential reasoning behind including soloists for winds and brass but not for strings?


I bought it a couple of days ago. Its missing the leader sections and only has one microphone. Be aware, the full version is on sale for $400 which I didn't know when I paid $349 for core. I have sent spitfire two email too see if I can pay the difference and upgrade to pro as I only bought it two days ago. They haven't gotten back to me but if they don't let me, I'm going to be really really pissed


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## tav.one (May 9, 2020)

Rossy said:


> full version is on sale for $400 which I didn't know when I paid $349 for core.


It is $400 for you, AFTER you paid for Core (Upgrade Price)
For everyone else its on sale for $749


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## yiph2 (May 9, 2020)

Rossy said:


> I bought it a couple of days ago. Its missing the leader sections and only has one microphone. Be aware, the full version is on sale for $400 which I didn't know when I paid $349 for core. I have sent spitfire two email too see if I can pay the difference and upgrade to pro as I only bought it two days ago. They haven't gotten back to me but if they don't let me, I'm going to be really really pissed


Pro is only $400? Also, if you just add the pro version to your cart, it will automatically calculate the difference between they amount you paid, so I think as the current price of the Pro is 749, they already added the discount for you


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## SupremeFist (May 9, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> too bad EW doesnt have "gold" demos to show just 1 mic examples like the core version .


Yes that is annoying. Can anyone say whether HO Gold is drier than EWQLSO Gold, which I always found a little too wet?


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## Ashermusic (May 9, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Yes that is annoying. Can anyone say whether HO Gold is drier than EWQLSO Gold, which I always found a little too wet?



Yes, it is drier.


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## Rossy (May 9, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> Pro is only $400? Also, if you just add the pro version to your cart, it will automatically calculate the difference between they amount you paid, so I think as the current price of the Pro is 749, they already added the discount for you


Sorry but I dont understand


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## Rossy (May 9, 2020)

View attachment 30364


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## Artemi (May 9, 2020)

Rossy said:


> View attachment 30364


that price of 400$ is because you bought a core version, if that wasn't the case it wouldn't be like that
so in other words it's discounted for you right now


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## yiph2 (May 9, 2020)

Rossy said:


> Sorry but I dont understand


As you bought core at the price of 349, that is deducted from the Pro price.
So if you buy Pro, the crossgrade price is pro price - core price you paid.
Since you bought it at 349, 999-349=400, so you can upgrade to pro for 400


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## Rossy (May 9, 2020)

If I buy pro without having bought core, they will charge me $400. I fought core for $340. If would have known, I would have paid the extra $51 for pro


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## yiph2 (May 9, 2020)

Do you even understand? The normal price is 749 for pro. Since you bought the core, which you bought for 349, Spitfire Audio calculated the discount for pro, so they will minus 749 from the 349, which means 400, so you can upgrade to pro for 400. No one can get Pro for 400


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## Rossy (May 9, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> Do you even understand? The normal price is 749 for pro. Since you bought the core, which you bought for 349, Spitfire Audio calculated the discount for pro, so they will minus 749 from the 349, which means 400, so you can upgrade to pro for 400. No one can get Pro for 400


Did you look at the sceen shot? If I place an order right now, its available for an introductory price until may 31st. If I'm wrong then their website is very misleading and confusing


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## yiph2 (May 9, 2020)

Rossy said:


> Did you look at the sceen shot? If I place an order right now, its available for an introductory price until may 31st. If I'm wrong then their website is very misleading and confusing


If you log out, you will see the price of the Pro version is 749... It's listed at 400 because you logged in, and can see that you bought Core, so they will apply the discount of 349, making the price of Pro to be 400


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## Magnet (May 9, 2020)

Rossy said:


> If I buy pro without having bought core, they will charge me $400.



This is where you're wrong. If you buy pro without having bought core, they will charge you $749. This is what an account without Core sees right now when it tries to buy Pro:






You are only seeing the discounted upgrade price of $400 because you own Core.


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## Rossy (May 9, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> If you log out, you will see the price of the Pro version is 749... It's listed at 400 because you logged in, and can see that you bought Core, so they will apply the discount of 349, making the price of Pro to be 400


I went to another computer and you are correct. Very misleading in my opinion but thanks for the correction, I didn't mean to appear stupid.


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## jaketanner (May 9, 2020)

muk said:


> Compiled a list of the instruments that are not included in 'Core':
> 
> 
> strings leaders
> ...


The main mix and spill mics should have been the least that is included in Core...if you are going to go all out and create this type of library and then expect people to buy into it, at the very least give us what makes this library unique and sets it apart...the spill mics should have been essential. Seriously, what would it cost to include those mics? I can understand the instruments, but I think that the spill mics are a big part of this library's sound...thus should have been included. 

I always create fake spill mics to simulate the sound bouncing from around the room...here you have it done, and have to pay a premium for essentially a free mic position.


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## muziksculp (May 9, 2020)

Some more feedback from *BBCSO Core* users would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## dreddiknight (May 9, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> The main mix and spill mics should have been the least that is included in Core...if you are going to go all out and create this type of library and then expect people to buy into it, at the very least give us what makes this library unique and sets it apart...the spill mics should have been essential. Seriously, what would it cost to include those mics? I can understand the instruments, but I think that the spill mics are a big part of this library's sound...thus should have been included.
> 
> I always create fake spill mics to simulate the sound bouncing from around the room...here you have it done, and have to pay a premium for essentially a free mic position.


I disagree. It is what makes the library special, unique even, therefore it's a valuable addition to the pro library that sets it apart from other libraries. Only we can decide if it's worth paying for. If it's that cohesive sound that you're after pay the extra to get it. If it's not important get the core.


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## jaketanner (May 9, 2020)

dreddiknight said:


> I disagree. It is what makes the library special, unique even, therefore it's a valuable adjective of the the library that sets it apart from other libraries. Only we can decide if it's worth paying for. If it's that cohesive sound that you're after pay the extra to get it. If it's not important get the core.


point is that the spill mics should have been included in the core. Not that I want the pro...


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## nolotrippen (May 9, 2020)

Is the Spitfire player supposed to be multitimbral? I can't get it to access more than one MIDI channel in Play when using Labs.


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## John R Wilson (May 9, 2020)

nolotrippen said:


> Is the Spitfire player supposed to be multitimbral? I can't get it to access more than one MIDI channel in Play when using Labs.



The spitfire player is not multitimbral. Only one instrument per track can be loaded.


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## John R Wilson (May 9, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> The main mix and spill mics should have been the least that is included in Core...if you are going to go all out and create this type of library and then expect people to buy into it, at the very least give us what makes this library unique and sets it apart...the spill mics should have been essential. Seriously, what would it cost to include those mics? I can understand the instruments, but I think that the spill mics are a big part of this library's sound...thus should have been included.
> 
> I always create fake spill mics to simulate the sound bouncing from around the room...here you have it done, and have to pay a premium for essentially a free mic position.



I'm not sure I agree with this. Their needs to be some things that are kept for the pro version and spill mics do seem to be that added extra feature. Remember the Pro version is almost twice the price and the only thing that really differentiates it from the core version is the many mic positions (many in which are not necessary and take up a lot of SSD space) and a few extra instruments. Personally, I think the pro version should have some more content and dynamics for the asking price, especially considering it is now called a professional library. Many of the previous owners of the now pro edition seem to be disappointed that their hadn't been any real improvements or changes to the previous version of the library apart from a bass flute and a new name. Nonetheless, I do think that it is a great direction that spitfire has taken and I personally like the idea that they are making it more accessible to wider audiences.


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## Rossy (May 9, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Some more feedback from *BBCSO Core* users would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


It was funny, I asked about a billion questions here and everyone was great so I bout nucleus, then, the very next day, spitfire sent me an email as I have some of their lab products with the core offer. I was a little pissed at the timing so my wife, who sees how much fun I'm having, bought it for me . I'm a newbie to this and have a lot of overload with both library's but as of yet, the strings legato cut off seems very abrupt. I dont have a controller so maybe that would help with that.
I have only had it for one day so it's still pretty fresh. No actual solo string instruments which is a disappointment but it sounds really good up to now.


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## jaketanner (May 9, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> I'm not sure I agree with this. Their needs to be some things that are kept for the pro version and spill mics do seem to be that added extra feature. Remember the Pro version is almost twice the price and the only thing that really differentiates it from the core version is the many mic positions (many in which are not necessary and take up a lot of SSD space) and a few extra instruments. Personally, I think the pro version should have some more content and dynamics for the asking price, especially considering it is now called a professional library. Many of the previous owners of the now pro edition seem to be disappointed that their hadn't been any real improvements or changes to the previous version of the library apart from a bass flute and a new name. Nonetheless, I do think that it is a great direction that spitfire has taken and I personally like the idea that they are making it more accessible to wider audiences.


I understand...I do think the "pro" version should have a significant difference. But if you look at the difference between SCS and SCS pro...it's $300 for a few mics only...not extra instruments nothing. I have SCS, and wouldn't pay that much for the mics, even though they may come in handy. Adding the extra instruments in Pro, is good at least.


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## cmillar (May 9, 2020)

For those of you in the know....I just bought the 'Discovery' edition, as I have some other very nice sample libraries but have never bought any Spitfire libraries before and want to get an idea of the Spitfire sound world a little more.

In the 'Core' version of BBC Orch., is the reverb/room tone the same as in the 'Discovery' library?

Same hall I gather, but is there any change in the 'dryness' or 'wetness' of the hall sound?


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## AndyP (May 9, 2020)

For those who have the Pro version and have installed the Core version.
If you turn off articulations in Pro, they will be off in the core version too.
This is the only way to switch off articulations in the core version.

After all, it works reliably.


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## dreddiknight (May 9, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> point is that the spill mics should have been included in the core. Not that I want the pro...


That is the point; if the the spill mics are that attractive or important, that's why they expect people to pay more for them and they're not included in the cheaper version.


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## muziksculp (May 9, 2020)

Are the spill mics really that attractive, or important ? 

I would have liked three mic options (not spill mics), for the Core version, instead of only one Mic option. i.e. (Close - Decca Tree - Ambient)


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## Rossy (May 9, 2020)

I would rather they added the solo sections


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## robgb (May 9, 2020)

You all act as if this is the only library you'll ever own (should you decide to buy). No orchestral library excels in every category. That's what layering was invented for.


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## muziksculp (May 9, 2020)

Rossy said:


> I would rather they added the solo sections



Yes, that would have been even better, but I would think that would be even more remote/unlikely compared to giving us three mic options in Core.


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## jaketanner (May 9, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Are the spill mics really that attractive, or important ?
> 
> I would have liked three mic options (not spill mics), for the Core version, instead of only one Mic option. i.e. (Close - Decca Tree - Ambient)


As a mix and recording engineer, the spill mics add a sense of realism that you can't really get from the stereo mics...it can be simulated but not really the same...and if SFA wanted to go that extra extra mile, they would have filled the empty seats with bodies like a real session and not just have empty seats...the room is more reverberant and behaves differently when less people are in it, versus when filled with 100 or so musicians. I am being crazy picky here, but that little extra would have truly set them apart...because this bleed mic is not new to SFA...Light and Sound has been doing it for a few years already. 

Anyway...LOL I do understand some things that are prized possessions of the entire library be kept for the pro version...as the spill mics would most likely only benefit pro mockups anyway. 

Truth be told, I had my reservations about this library...but hearing additional demos and mockups done by people from Italy, it solidified what I heard from one mockup when it first came out...that using one library in one cohesive space, makes a big difference. Nothing sounded disjointed...so I may end up getting Pro after all...just want to demo the Discover version first.


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## muziksculp (May 9, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> As a mix and recording engineer, the spill mics add a sense of realism that you can't really get from the stereo mics...it can be simulated but not really the same...and if SFA wanted to go that extra extra mile, they would have filled the empty seats with bodies like a real session and not just have empty seats...the room is more reverberant and behaves differently when less people are in it, versus when filled with 100 or so musicians. I am being crazy picky here, but that little extra would have truly set them apart...because this bleed mic is not new to SFA...Light and Sound has been doing it for a few years already.
> 
> Anyway...LOL I do understand some things that are prized possessions of the entire library be kept for the pro version...as the spill mics would most likely only benefit pro mockups anyway.
> 
> Truth be told, I had my reservations about this library...but hearing additional demos and mockups done by people from Italy, it solidified what I heard from one mockup when it first came out...that using one library in one cohesive space, makes a big difference. Nothing sounded disjointed...so I may end up getting Pro after all...just want to demo the Discover version first.



Interesting. Thanks for the feedback.

I wonder if the BBCSO Pro version is the only orchestral sample library that offers spill mics ? 

I'm also curious how the spill mics are used in context of a full mix ?

Do they add more sonic depth, and detail, or more panoramic detail, or ... ? and how noticeable that is compared to not using the spill mics in a mix minor, or major difference ?


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## jaketanner (May 9, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I wonder if the BBCSO Pro version is the only orchestral sample library that offers spill mics ?


Light and Sound is the only other company I know of that has "bleed" mics for their Chamber Strings.



muziksculp said:


> I'm also curious how the spill mics are used in context of a full mix ?


They will add the extra depth that is missing from just the main mics. Think about a true orchestra gig...even IF there were only say brass players in the session, you will have sound bouncing all over the place, not just from the few mics that are up, but from mics that would be by the WW, Strings, Percussion...etc. SFA does use outriggers, which does have a little bit of that sound, but there is a walkthrough video on BBCSO...forget if it's the strings or brass YT video, that Paul talks and solos out the spill mics so you can hear what they do...think of them as very distant mics...but the cool thing is that in reality, the instruments that are on the left are also picked up by the mics that are on the right and vice versa...that's what's missing from most libraries...the crossbleed.



muziksculp said:


> Do they add more sonic depth, and detail, or more panoramic detail, or ... ? and how noticeable that is compared to not using the spill mics in a mix minor, or major difference ?


More depth...more "stereo" full sound. And depends on the orchestration...could make a difference or not much. I would imagine there might be some slight phasing issues as well, but I am sure that SFA has sorted that out already. I think this aspect is what makes the difference when comparing a mock up to a live orchestra...for as good as John Powells mockups are, and in the videos he post, they do actual A/B switching between the mockup and live...one difference I hear among the many, is the width and depth which is attributed to all the open mics.


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## muziksculp (May 9, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Light and Sound is the only other company I know of that has "bleed" mics for their Chamber Strings.
> 
> 
> They will add the extra depth that is missing from just the main mics. Think about a true orchestra gig...even IF there were only say brass players in the session, you will have sound bouncing all over the place, not just from the few mics that are up, but from mics that would be by the WW, Strings, Percussion...etc. SFA does use outriggers, which does have a little bit of that sound, but there is a walkthrough video on BBCSO...forget if it's the strings or brass YT video, that Paul talks and solos out the spill mics so you can hear what they do...think of them as very distant mics...but the cool thing is that in reality, the instruments that are on the left are also picked up by the mics that are on the right and vice versa...that's what's missing from most libraries...the crossbleed.
> ...



Thanks, that was very helpful feedback.


----------



## SomeGuy (May 9, 2020)

robgb said:


> You all act as if this is the only library you'll ever own (should you decide to buy). No orchestral library excels in every category. That's what layering was invented for.


So by this logic you are happily paying extra for instruments you don’t find useful on their own? This is why I wish companies would let us buy individual sections, especially if the library is being run in a proprietary sample player!! I don’t understand Why VSL seem to be the only company who do this...


----------



## muk (May 10, 2020)

Offtopic below


*********************************************************************

To give another perspective on what @jaketanner wrote:

Many classical orchestral cds have been recorded with a decca tree only, or a Faulkner array, or similar. No mics on individual sections there, no spot mics, no crossbleed. While spill mics can be useful in certain situations and for a certain kind of sound, by no means are they always wanted. They certainly do not add 'realism', or do you think classical cd recordings sound unrealistic, or could sound 'more realistic' if there had been mic crossbleed? If that was the case you can be dead certain that classical concerts would be recorded that way.

And about seats being filled with absorbers to simulate an audience: this sounds logical in principle. In reality, it's mostly an inaudible difference. For live recordings of classical music, you record the concert with audience, obviously. But immediately after the concert, there is usually a slot to re-record some passages that didn't go well. These are recorded without the audience, and then cut into the live-recording. It's impossible to hear a difference. In a recording that has been made with audience, you have some segments that have been recorded in the same venue, but without audience. You can't hear a difference. It's impossible to make out these segments. So in practice, this is often a non-issue.

There might be some recording venues/situations where you want to place some absorbers to shorten the RT60 slightly. I remember Orchestral Tools stating that they placed absorbers when recording their libraries to simulate the other members of the orchestra, and an audience. In many cases, however, the difference will not be audible at all.


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## nolotrippen (May 10, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> The spitfire player is not multitimbral. Only one instrument per track can be loaded.


I wonder what the thinking was behind that design.


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## Ashermusic (May 10, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> As a mix and recording engineer, the spill mics add a sense of realism that you can't really get from the stereo mics...it can be simulated but not really the same...and if SFA wanted to go that extra extra mile, they would have filled the empty seats with bodies like a real session and not just have empty seats...the room is more reverberant and behaves differently when less people are in it, versus when filled with 100 or so musicians. I am being crazy picky here, but that little extra would have truly set them apart...because this bleed mic is not new to SFA...Light and Sound has been doing it for a few years already.
> 
> Anyway...LOL I do understand some things that are prized possessions of the entire library be kept for the pro version...as the spill mics would most likely only benefit pro mockups anyway.
> 
> Truth be told, I had my reservations about this library...but hearing additional demos and mockups done by people from Italy, it solidified what I heard from one mockup when it first came out...that using one library in one cohesive space, makes a big difference. Nothing sounded disjointed...so I may end up getting Pro after all...just want to demo the Discover version first.



i am unfamiliar with the term “spill” mics. Which are they in e.g. the Hollywood Orchestra terminology.?


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## lumcas (May 10, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> i am unfamiliar with the term “spill” mics. Which are they in e.g. the Hollywood Orchestra terminology.?



There are none in Hollywood Orchestra terminology.









Spill (audio) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Ashermusic (May 10, 2020)

lumcas said:


> There are none in Hollywood Orchestra terminology.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks!

So Diamond comes with main (Decca tree), mid, close, vintage, and surround but Jake, in your view that isn’t enough?


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## robgb (May 10, 2020)

SomeGuy said:


> So by this logic you are happily paying extra for instruments you don’t find useful on their own? This is why I wish companies would let us buy individual sections, especially if the library is being run in a proprietary sample player!! I don’t understand Why VSL seem to be the only company who do this...


I buy libraries every year that have weakness. I compensate for those weakness with other libraries that don't share them. I agree that it would be nice to be able to purchase individual sections, but I guess that kind of defeats the idea of having an all-in-one-package orchestral library.

That said, what I wish is that developers would give us a demo period to use the library and decide whether or not they want to buy. Spitfire certainly has that capability since they're using their own player. I wish NI would give developers a way to do timed demos in Kontakt.

Unfortunately, we get what we get.


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## Rossy (May 10, 2020)

tav.one said:


> So if you opted in for "Free" discover, you can get core for $299 between 23rd May and 31st May?
> 
> If the Mix of Discover suits the music that I do then I'm definitely upgrading to Core.


Just for clarity if I had filled out the form and got discover then, upgraded to core, I would only pay $299? Instead of the $349 I paid for core straight away?


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## yiph2 (May 10, 2020)

Rossy said:


> Just for clarity if I had filled out the form and got discover then, upgraded to core, I would only pay $299? Instead of the $349 I paid for core straight away?


I don't think so, as if you filled the form you didn't pay anything. But if you payed, I think it would


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## Rossy (May 10, 2020)

yiph2 said:


> Pro is only $400? Also, if you just add the pro version to your cart, it will automatically calculate the difference between they amount you paid, so I think as the current price of the Pro is 749, they already added the discount for you


Thanks, I already made a horse's arse of myself trying to work that out on another post. Some one was very gracious and set me straight. I just dont like how spitfire presented it on their website, I also probably should have took my time to read everything carefully.....that's what excitement does to you.


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## Rossy (May 10, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Some more feedback from *BBCSO Core* users would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


I posted this in a thread earlier today so this may be some good feedback before making a decision but I am just not hearing the vibrato on the strings and cello sections. I have used labs so I know the interface well. Everything is turned up and I still don't here it. I tried the solo instruments in nucleus and I hear it fine there. Not sure what I'm doing wrong? 
Is anyone else having this problem?


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## Rossy (May 10, 2020)

robgb said:


> I buy libraries every year that have weakness. I compensate for those weakness with other libraries that don't share them. I agree that it would be nice to be able to purchase individual sections, but I guess that kind of defeats the idea of having an all-in-one-package orchestral library.
> 
> That said, what I wish is that developers would give us a demo period to use the library and decide whether or not they want to buy. Spitfire certainly has that capability since they're using their own player. I wish NI would give developers a way to do timed demos in Kontakt.
> 
> Unfortunately, we get what we get.


This is my sentiment exactly, put a timer or something on them so we can make a choice.


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## jaketanner (May 11, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Thanks!
> 
> So Diamond comes with main (Decca tree), mid, close, vintage, and surround but Jake, in your view that isn’t enough?


It's completely different...it's NOT an instrument mic per se...it's more of the OTHER instrument mics left open. So what they did, is record the strings, but left the brass mics, woodwind mics percussion..etc, ON...and recorded the bleed from the strings into the mics...repeated this process for all other instruments. What you get is a sound that just can't be had with the Decca, close, ambient...etc. Because they're mics that are NOT on the actual instrument...hope this makes sense.. LOL


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## jaketanner (May 11, 2020)

muk said:


> There might be some recording venues/situations where you want to place some absorbers to shorten the RT60 slightly. I remember Orchestral Tools stating that they placed absorbers when recording their libraries to simulate the other members of the orchestra, and an audience. In many cases, however, the difference will not be audible at all.


Exactly this...but whether it's audible or not, depends on the venue and recording space. Some spaces are MORE reverberant on purpose for when it is filled with musicians...it absorbs a bit. Some venues also are set up to alter the acoustics accordingly, but is it absolutely necessary.. NO...I agree. 

As for the spill mics and realism, I wanted to clarify that I didn't mean that if a library has spill mics, automatically makes it sound real. Also, a live orchestra is going to sound real no matter what...if it's one mono mic, or dozens, the performance is what makes it real. However, my point was with a killer mockup, adding in the spill mics creates that ambience that is very difficult to create without them. It's truly a minimal extra, but I feel it gives some extra life to the samples. Harder to explain...easier to just hear a mockup with and without them. BUT...just how much of a difference it will make, depends on the mockup skills of the composer.

I've been experimenting with this concept for a bit with other libraries. I'll setup a stereo aux track and bus a little of each instrument into it, then blend that aux track low in the mix and flip the pan on some instruments...but even this approach does not compensate for the open mics of the instruments that aren't playing.


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## mybadmemory (May 11, 2020)

So what was the verdict on being able to unload and turn off articulations in the core version? Not possible?


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## yiph2 (May 11, 2020)

Not possible, unless you use their templates, then it will work I think


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## mybadmemory (May 11, 2020)

Sounds strange to me. I totally understand removing mic positions and some lesser used instruments, but the ability to unload / remove articulations would seem even more important for Core users, that most probably work on lower spec machines than Pro users?

Perhaps @paulthomson or @christianhenson could shed some light on this?


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## Ashermusic (May 11, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> It's completely different...it's NOT an instrument mic per se...it's more of the OTHER instrument mics left open. So what they did, is record the strings, but left the brass mics, woodwind mics percussion..etc, ON...and recorded the bleed from the strings into the mics...repeated this process for all other instruments. What you get is a sound that just can't be had with the Decca, close, ambient...etc. Because they're mics that are NOT on the actual instrument...hope this makes sense.. LOL



Thanks for clarifying. This sounds to me, just off the cuff, like one of those things that in the real world engineers work hard to minimize that people think if they add to samples makes them sound more real. But until I hear an example with and without I will reserve judgment.


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## jaketanner (May 11, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Thanks for clarifying. This sounds to me, just off the cuff, like one of those things that in the real world engineers work hard to minimize that people think if they add to samples makes them sound more real. But until I hear an example with and without I will reserve judgment.


Fair enough and completely understandable. It’s maybe similar to bleed in a drum kit. Removing the Tom mics sometimes makes the kit too clean. When we hear a kit live, we hear all the drums resonating and blending as a whole. Same thing happens in an orchestra...so samples are too clean at times. I don’t think SF would have wasted their time if they didn’t think John Powell’s comment was valid. I’m just surprised SF hasn’t thought of it much sooner.


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## ceemusic (May 11, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Fair enough and completely understandable. It’s maybe similar to bleed in a drum kit. Removing the Tom mics sometimes makes the kit too clean. When we hear a kit live, we hear all the drums resonating and blending as a whole. Same thing happens in an orchestra...so samples are too clean at times. I don’t think SF would have wasted their time if they didn’t think John Powell’s comment was valid. I’m just surprised SF hasn’t thought of it much sooner.



Curious, what are the mixing capabilities of this library? Direct outs to your daw? Inserting certain fx such as gates on these spill mics could prove interesting. Thinking in terms of Visconti/ Heroes here.


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## Ashermusic (May 11, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Fair enough and completely understandable. It’s maybe similar to bleed in a drum kit. Removing the Tom mics sometimes makes the kit too clean. When we hear a kit live, we hear all the drums resonating and blending as a whole. Same thing happens in an orchestra...so samples are too clean at times. I don’t think SF would have wasted their time if they didn’t think John Powell’s comment was valid. I’m just surprised SF hasn’t thought of it much sooner.



But there is the sound of a orchestra that you hear sitting in a venue and the sound of a recording of that orchestra. Samples are far more akin to the latter so I guess this is a way of trying to make them more like the former? Iam skeptical but my mind is open.


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## Inventio (May 11, 2020)

muk said:


> Without owning it, it's audible that it misses dynamic layers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I can confirm about the lack of dynamics in brass, especially in the trumpets. I don't own it but I have used it in a studio where I have been working since last year (before the lockdown). Not having the "right" dynamics in brass seems to me a huge handicap in all situations but particularly in a teaching situation, where the advantage of such a library is to provide a balanced orchestra to start learning orchestration with the "right behaviour" of each instrument or section and in relation with one another.

Has this been fixed in this update, Core or Pro?


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## jaketanner (May 11, 2020)

ceemusic said:


> Curious, what are the mixing capabilities of this library? Direct outs to your daw? Inserting certain fx such as gates on these spill mics could prove interesting. Thinking in terms of Visconti/ Heroes here.


Don’t have the library yet. I’m gonna demo the discover version first


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## jaketanner (May 11, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> But there is the sound of a orchestra that you hear sitting in a venue and the sound of a recording of that orchestra. Samples are far more akin to the latter so I guess this is a way of trying to make them more like the former? Iam skeptical but my mind is open.


Paul Thompson actually demos the spill mics in either the strings or brass walkthrough videos.


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## muk (May 11, 2020)

Inventio said:


> Has this been fixed in this update, Core or Pro?



It is very unlikely to be fixed. Spitfire didn't record more dynamic layers. More dynamic layers would have meant more time needed for recording, and that would have increased the cost. So they recorded only 'up to 3' dynamic layers, and no more.
It's possible that there will be improvements to the legato programming, and the player etc. But to fix the dynamic layers would need re-recordings. And as far as I know that has never happened with Spitfire so far.


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## muk (May 11, 2020)

@Ashermusic 

There you go Jay.


----------



## Inventio (May 11, 2020)

muk said:


> It's possible that there will be improvements to the legato programming, and the player etc. But to fix the dynamic layers would need re-recordings. And as far as I know that has never happened with Spitfire so far.


I know...And re-recording now is impossible, too.
I would have preferred a rougher crossfade than the lack of forte in brass.
I asked their Support, anyway. 

The player is fantastic, the concept, too. Legato is a little bumpy here and there but nothing that prevents working.


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## Ashermusic (May 11, 2020)

muk said:


> @Ashermusic
> 
> There you go Jay.





Thanks Muk. Everything is so wet, I can't assess it.


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## jaketanner (May 11, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Thanks Muk. Everything is so wet, I can't assess it.


Needs to be used in moderation but mostly effective when you have a full orchestral arrangement going. Also more effective if BBCSO is the only library you’re using, then you do not need much external reverb at all. It’s the natural space.


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## Ashermusic (May 11, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Needs to be used in moderation but mostly effective when you have a full orchestral arrangement going. Also more effective if BBCSO is the only library you’re using, then you do not need much external reverb at all. It’s the natural space.



So what we heard there was with no added reverb?


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## robgb (May 11, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> It's completely different...it's NOT an instrument mic per se...it's more of the OTHER instrument mics left open. So what they did, is record the strings, but left the brass mics, woodwind mics percussion..etc, ON...and recorded the bleed from the strings into the mics...repeated this process for all other instruments. What you get is a sound that just can't be had with the Decca, close, ambient...etc. Because they're mics that are NOT on the actual instrument...hope this makes sense.. LOL


I'd argue that unless they had people sitting in those other sections, those mics are not really giving you an accurate representation of the room. I think if you have the room it can't hurt to use extra mics, but I'm not really sure it has a benefit without the entire orchestra in place and seems more like a sales gimmick than anything else. But then I've never bought into the recorded room sound gambit.


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## jaketanner (May 11, 2020)

robgb said:


> I'd argue that unless they had people sitting in those other sections, those mics are not really giving you an accurate representation of the room. I think if you have the room it can't hurt to use extra mics, but I'm not really sure it has a benefit without the entire orchestra in place and seems more like a sales gimmick than anything else. But then I've never bought into the recorded room sound gambit.


I don’t like the room tone sounds as “glue” either. But the spill mics do add more ambience and a fuller sound without the need to add eq or anything else. Plus it’s what is heard from this positions if you were in the recording space. It’s like a natural addition. Don’t think it’s gimmicky at all. But you’d have to be at a higher mock-up level for it to be of benefit though.


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## robgb (May 11, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> But you’d have to be at a higher mock-up level for it to be of benefit though.


Well, that certainly isn't me.


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## jonathanwright (May 11, 2020)

Really liking Core so far, very tempted to go to Pro, but really in two minds.

The leaders are very appealing, but it’s how much use I’ll get out of the extra mic positions I’m unsure of.


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## jaketanner (May 11, 2020)

jonathanwright said:


> Really liking Core so far, very tempted to go to Pro, but really in two minds.
> 
> The leaders are very appealing, but it’s how much use I’ll get out of the extra mic positions I’m unsure of.


All depends on how you’re using the library. If you’re doing mockups for TV or film, and it’s going to be recorded live, then maybe all out isn’t needed. If it’s going to be a final and you want more detail, or solo lines then you’ll need them.


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## richhickey (May 12, 2020)

I bought Core and am finding it neither here nor there. It's not a lighter-weight writing tool for targeting BBCSO because of the missing instruments nor is it a production tool for the subset of the orchestra it includes because of the single mic mix. It is, as someone said in another forum, "a deliberate half-product designed to sit on your computer and tempt you into upgrading". It's not actually well-focused on any particular customer workflow.

Sound-wise it's about what you would expect from trying to get a whole orchestra in 24 GB - limited articulations/round-robins/dynamics. Note well that nothing about the extra mics will improve this aspect. If you want to ride around mf-f you can get by. The low dynamics uniformly sound like turning the volume down. The brass can be pretty wonky. It has the usual SF problems with fast playing, onset timing, level matching for connected phrasing etc. I wish the mix was a smidge drier, but I do like the sound of the room, and without the extra mics for you to ruin it yourself, the cohesion of the mix.

It would be a much better value and satisfy the writing workflow if it included all the instruments. As it stands, I can't recommend it.


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## CatOrchestra (May 12, 2020)

richhickey said:


> I bought Core and am finding it neither here nor there. It's not a lighter-weight writing tool for targeting BBCSO because of the missing instruments nor is it a production tool for the subset of the orchestra it includes because of the single mic mix. It is, as someone said in another forum, "a deliberate half-product designed to sit on your computer and tempt you into upgrading". It's not actually well-focused on any particular customer workflow.
> 
> Sound-wise it's about what you would expect from trying to get a whole orchestra in 24 GB - limited articulations/round-robins/dynamics. Note well that nothing about the extra mics will improve this aspect. If you want to ride around mf-f you can get by. The low dynamics uniformly sound like turning the volume down. The brass can be pretty wonky. It has the usual SF problems with fast playing, onset timing, level matching for connected phrasing etc. I wish the mix was a smidge drier, but I do like the sound of the room, and without the extra mics for you to ruin it yourself, the cohesion of the mix.
> 
> It would be a much better value and satisfy the writing workflow if it included all the instruments. As it stands, I can't recommend it.



Was wondering what would be a good orchestral VST package that has more dynamics? Something that has recorded pp; p; mp; mf; f; ff;


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## muziksculp (May 12, 2020)

I think if BBCSO Core offered three mic positions, and all of the sample content of the Pro edition, priced at $450. it would be a no brainer purchase for me. I'm still struggling to make up my mind about getting Core vs Pro, I feel Pro is an overkill with the 20 mic options, and 590 GB size, and Core is kind of a crippled version of what could have been just the perfect option (for me).


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## mushanga (May 12, 2020)

CatOrchestra said:


> Was wondering what would be a good orchestral VST package that has more dynamics? Something that has recorded pp; p; mp; mf; f; ff;


Have a look at the VSL Synchron-ized Special Edition Volume 1:

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchronized_Special_Edition_Bundle/Synchronized_Special_Edition_Vol1

and Volume 1 Plus (for added articulations):

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchronized_Special_Edition_Bundle/Synchronized_Special_Edition_Vol1_Plus


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## John R Wilson (May 12, 2020)

CatOrchestra said:


> Was wondering what would be a good orchestral VST package that has more dynamics? Something that has recorded pp; p; mp; mf; f; ff;



EWHO gold or diamond!


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## Pixelpoet1985 (May 12, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> So what we heard there was with no added reverb?



Correct, no reverb added. Actually you don't need additional reverb with this library.

If you prefer a more "hollywood" dry scoring stage sound you definitely have to buy the pro version. I really like the room sound, but it's way too wet for my taste. I have the pro version and I use only the close wide microphone with just a tiny bit of others (really tiny!). But I wished you could go even more drier. 

I think it has something to do with the legato programming, too. If you compare the "normal" legato with the "extended" (performance) legato you definitely hear that the staccato overlays make the articulations wetter.


----------



## jaketanner (May 12, 2020)

CatOrchestra said:


> Was wondering what would be a good orchestral VST package that has more dynamics? Something that has recorded pp; p; mp; mf; f; ff;


As a complete package, this is the only one I know of that has everything recorded in one space, and sells as one package. Other libraries like Cinesamples records most everything at Sony, so all libraries will be cohesive, but sold as a bundle, and not an all in one GUI like SF.

In terms of more dynamics, VSL uses up to 8-9 velocity layers for certain articulations...not cheap, but only other library I know that has that many dynamic layers...oh and Chris Hein also has a lot of velocity layers...but again, neither is an all in on GUI.

EDIT: Someone mentioned EW...this is true, but much harder I believe to use and a deep learning curve to get the most out of it.


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## MarcelM (May 12, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> As a complete package, this is the only one I know of that has everything recorded in one space, and sells as one package. Other libraries like Cinesamples records most everything at Sony, so all libraries will be cohesive, but sold as a bundle, and not an all in one GUI like SF.
> 
> In terms of more dynamics, VSL uses up to 8-9 velocity layers for certain articulations...not cheap, but only other library I know that has that many dynamic layers...oh and Chris Hein also has a lot of velocity layers...but again, neither is an all in on GUI.
> 
> EDIT: Someone mentioned EW...this is true, but much harder I believe to use and a deep learning curve to get the most out of it.



iconica from steinberg offers the same for example.


----------



## Ashermusic (May 12, 2020)

Pixelpoet1985 said:


> Correct, no reverb added. Actually you don't need additional reverb with this library.



Boy, that is wet.


----------



## paulmatthew (May 12, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I think if BBCSO Core offered three mic positions, and all of the sample content of the Pro edition, priced at $450. it would be a no brainer purchase for me. I'm still struggling to make up my mind about getting Core vs Pro, I feel Pro is an overkill with the 20 mic options, and 590 GB size, and Core is kind of a crippled version of what could have been just the perfect option (for me).


I agree. I like the option in Spitfire libraries to adjust the 3 close, decca/tree, and overhead/ambient mics. Seems they've been moving away from that in some of their latest releases which is unfortunate. Even the close - far option in the Studio Series is better than a single mix with no room for adjustment. I'm sure this affects library size , but it also takes away some flexibility.


----------



## jaketanner (May 12, 2020)

MarcelM said:


> iconica from steinberg offers the same for example.


I've heard of that, but isn't it more of an entry level library (see edit)? I mean, I am not aware of anyone who uses that library in their everyday work...it's hardly talked about...forgot why I passed on it originally. But I also wasn't aware that it's an all in one GUI for the entire orchestra. Maybe I'll take a second look.

EDIT: Seems Iconica is geared for pro use...just can't remember why I passed originally...maybe was because it's Halion only?


----------



## MarcelM (May 12, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I've heard of that, but isn't it more of an entry level library? I mean, I am not aware of anyone who uses that library in their everyday work...it's hardly talked about...forgot why I passed on it originally. But I also wasn't aware that it's an all in one GUI for the entire orchestra. Maybe I'll take a second look.



it is offered as an ensemble package for starters and a different version with all sections and the price isnt entry level at all. it was made by orchestral tools for steinberg between. you can demo it for free 30 days. the legato isnt that convincing though, but the woodwinds for example are very nice. maybe have a look?


----------



## jaketanner (May 12, 2020)

MarcelM said:


> it is offered as an ensemble package for starters and a different version with all sections and the price isnt entry level at all. it was made by orchestral tools for steinberg between. you can demo it for free 30 days. the legato isnt that convincing though, but the woodwinds for example are very nice. maybe have a look?


Just modified my reply...I see there is a full version for pro use. I'll look again.


----------



## jaketanner (May 12, 2020)

Iconica was mentioned as a similar library...it's priced at $799, and offers less than what BBCSO offers. Is Iconic the competition, or is it not a consideration at all because of the platform and the pricing? OT seems to have been involved...but compared to BBCSO, I would opt for BBC given the similarity in current price.


----------



## MarcelM (May 12, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Iconica was mentioned as a similar library...it's priced at $799, and offers less than what BBCSO offers. Is Iconic the competition, or is it not a consideration at all because of the platform and the pricing? OT seems to have been involved...but compared to BBCSO, I would opt for BBC given the similarity in current price.



yah if you take the 799 bucks i would agree. it was on sale for 40 or 50% in the past and its very likely that it will be again this summer. maybe then it will be an option, not sure. iconica doesnt get so much love here, but its not a bad library at all. i mean which library or package is really perfect? none...


----------



## jaketanner (May 12, 2020)

MarcelM said:


> yah if you take the 799 bucks i would agree. it was on sale for 40 or 50% in the past and its very likely that it will be again this summer. maybe then it will be an option, not sure. iconica doesnt get so much love here, but its not a bad library at all. i mean which library or package is really perfect? none...


True..all lack something or other. And I just checked that at $799, you don't get the ensembles...that's an extra $200 if you want them...LOL So $999 for a library that is hardly talked about...has to be something wrong with it beyond the usual no library is perfect. But if they sold the instruments in sections, like strings only or winds only, I think I might bite...but not for the complete package.


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## Robert_G (May 12, 2020)

I already got burned with the 1 mic (poorly chosen mic) with Studio Woodwinds Core, so I will definitely pass.


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## MarcelM (May 12, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> True..all lack something or other. And I just checked that at $799, you don't get the ensembles...that's an extra $200 if you want them...LOL So $999 for a library that is hardly talked about...has to be something wrong with it beyond the usual no library is perfect. But if they sold the instruments in sections, like strings only or winds only, I think I might bite...but not for the complete package.



i agree that the price is too high, thats why i recommended the sale but the library itself isnt that bad at all.

imho there is no perfect choice at all. like you said, no library is perfect.


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## jaketanner (May 12, 2020)

MarcelM said:


> i agree that the price is too high, thats why i recommended the sale but the library itself isnt that bad at all.
> 
> imho there is no perfect choice at all. like you said, no library is perfect.


I'll wait for a sale...Will listen to more demos.. I always forget about it, then get reminded and then forget again.. LOL


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## jaketanner (May 12, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> I already got burned with the 1 mic (poorly chosen mic) with Studio Woodwinds Core, so I will definitely pass.


I have the pro of the studio series...most definitely need additional mic positions, especially for this library.


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## MarcelM (May 12, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I'll wait for a sale...Will listen to more demos.. I always forget about it, then get reminded and then forget again.. LOL



i would always demo a library myself if i have chance to instead of listening to just demos. i dont like most of the spitfire demos for example, but the librarys are a different thing. iconica has quite bad demos aswell imho.


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## jaketanner (May 12, 2020)

MarcelM said:


> i would always demo a library myself if i have chance to instead of listening to just demos. i dont like most of the spitfire demos for example, but the librarys are a different thing. iconica has quite bad demos aswell imho.


Thanks..I do see there is a demo, good call.


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## Stringtree (May 29, 2020)

Robert_G said:


> I already got burned with the 1 mic (poorly chosen mic) with Studio Woodwinds Core, so I will definitely pass.



Did you ever then get the full SStWW? I revisited this library that was super disappointing and realized the best thing I might do would be make up the difference and get the woodwinds I wanted in the first place. The other mics in the set are far superior and offer a lot of choices. 

First time Paul demonstrated the other mics did it for me. Now I'll use these all the time. 

Getting just the tree mic was like having one of the Sea Monkeys packets. Nothing seemed to happen. Now that I completed it, I have an amazing world of new friends I will love forever. 

Greg


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## jaketanner (May 29, 2020)

Stringtree said:


> Did you ever then get the full SStWW? I revisited this library that was super disappointing and realized the best thing I might do would be make up the difference and get the woodwinds I wanted in the first place. The other mics in the set are far superior and offer a lot of choices.
> 
> First time Paul demonstrated the other mics did it for me. Now I'll use these all the time.
> 
> ...


After having several mic choices on various libraries, I will not buy any library that has only 1. The sound options are immense. Hence my hesitation for LASS lite.


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## John R Wilson (May 29, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> After having several mic choices on various libraries, I will not buy any library that has only 1. The sound options are immense. Hence my hesitation for LASS lite.



I was initially a little disappointed when the BBCSO core came out thinking that I would have just got the core version instead of paying a lot more for the professional version. I was also a little disappointed that nothing was really updated for the now Pro version. However, the more I'm exploring and using the mics in the BBCSO, the more I'm enjoying the greatly versatility that having several mic positions offer. I just started improvising a track using the string leaders and close mics and its given me quite a nice clean and close sound. It just depends on what your looking to do. If you just want to make some orchestral music with a traditional type mix then the core is good for that, the mix 1 is nice (maybe a little wet sounding for my liking). I've also started to prefer dryer samples than very wet samples with a backed in hall sound, so I would always want to at least have a close mic position in any library that I now buy.


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## jaketanner (May 29, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> I was initially a little disappointed when the BBCSO core came out thinking that I would have just got the core version instead of paying a lot more for the professional version. I was also a little disappointed that nothing was really updated for the now Pro version. However, the more I'm exploring and using the mics in the BBCSO, the more I'm enjoying the greatly versatility that having several mic positions offer. I just started improvising a track using the string leaders and close mics and its given me quite a nice clean and close sound. It just depends on what your looking to do. If you just want to make some orchestral music with a traditional type mix then the core is good for that, the mix 1 is nice (maybe a little wet sounding for my liking). I've also started to prefer dryer samples than very wet samples with a backed in hall sound, so I would always want to at least have a close mic position in any library that I buy now.


Absolutely. And at the very least I think I would actually consider a 1 mic library with the option of getting more mics. I know LASS offers that and so does the Core. And I too have developed a certain sound that I like that is not wet, but a bit ambient...can’t have that with one mic position. Lately I’m loving Synchron Strings1...it’s near perfect for what I’m looking for. If it was slightly darker and thicker it would be the only library I’d ever need.


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## John R Wilson (May 29, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Absolutely. And at the very least I think I would actually consider a 1 mic library with the option of getting more mics. I know LASS offers that and so does the Core. And I too have developed a certain sound that I like that is not wet, but a bit ambient...can’t have that with one mic position. Lately I’m loving Synchron Strings1...it’s near perfect for what I’m looking for. If it was slightly darker and thicker it would be the only library I’d ever need.




I'll have to check out Synchron Strings. I feel very similar, its the reason I haven't ended up getting the SSO as I find the SSO a bit too wet for my liking. I really want the option to get a sound that is not too wet/reverberant.


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

In case it hasn't been linked here yet, this is Christian Henson's May 26 video "Is Core the Right Choice for You?".

I have a lot of time for Jake Jackson and Core contains his main mix. I think that Henson's advice in the video is also good. Having purchased Core for US$300 yesterday, I'll purchase Pro if I conclude in time that I need to pay at. least another $400 (current price through Sunday) for the additional microphone perspectives or instruments.

In the second video, uploaded on May 11, forum participant Nico Schuele concludes that he has no pressing need for Pro.


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## jaketanner (May 29, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> I'll have to check out Synchron Strings. I feel very similar, its the reason I haven't ended up getting the SSO as I just find the samples a bit too wet for my liking. I really want the option to get a sound that is not too wet/reverberant sounding.


Also, I believe that a wet sound might be a think of the past. Like a dated sound for movies. Many of the OST I listen to have detailed strings. From Mary Poppins to Avengers. So that’s the sound I’m looking for as it makes no sense to go wet if it’s not what’s happening.


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## SupremeFist (May 29, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Also, I believe that a wet sound might be a think of the past. Like a dated sound for movies. Many of the OST I listen to have detailed strings. From Mary Poppins to Avengers. So that’s the sound I’m looking for as it makes no sense to go wet if it’s not what’s happening.


I agree with this. Spent a while trying to convince myself to get Core because in many ways it's incredible value for money, but I concluded I really don't like how wet it is. Calling it "the broadcast standard" is imo rather an excessive claim since for many media applications it just sounds too old-fashioned and "classical"; and the trend is definitely towards drier mixes (cf the score for The Mandalorian).


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## John R Wilson (May 29, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Also, I believe that a wet sound might be a think of the past. Like a dated sound for movies. Many of the OST I listen to have detailed strings. From Mary Poppins to Avengers. So that’s the sound I’m looking for as it makes no sense to go wet if it’s not what’s happening.




Yeah, I'm certainly becoming less fond of the sample libraries that are really wet sounding. The BBCSO does have quite a wet sound but much less than the SSO, plus you can get it more dryer sounding with the close and mid mic positions.


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## jaketanner (May 29, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I agree with this. Spent a while trying to convince myself to get Core because in many ways it's incredible value for money, but I concluded I really don't like how wet it is. Calling it "the broadcast standard" is imo rather an excessive claim since for many media applications it just sounds too old-fashioned and "classical"; and the trend is definitely towards drier mixes (cf the score for The Mandalorian).


Exactly


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## jaketanner (May 29, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> Yeah, I'm certainly becoming less fond of the sample libraries that are really wet sounding. The BBCSO does have quite a wet sound but much less than the SSO, plus you can get it more dryer sounding with the close and mid mic positions.


I do like the overall tone of the strings, but not sold on the programming just yet. Maybe after the bug fixes perhaps.


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## Geomir (May 29, 2020)

Rory said:


> I have a lot of time for Jake Jackson and Core contains his main mix. I think that Henson's advice in the video is also good. Having purchased Core for US$300 yesterday, I'll purchase Pro if I conclude in time that I need to pay at. least another $400 (current price through Sunday) for the additional microphone perspectives.


You are getting much more than the extra mics, i.e. all the removed-from-the-Core-version instruments: the bass clarinet, the English horn, all the solo strings, etc... For me all these instruments are more important than 20 different "signals"!

I wish they have followed EastWest's example in this one (they offer all the instruments and articulations of their Platinum / Diamond Versions to the Gold ones as well). I mean, if I buy BBC Core as a cohesive and balanced orchestra and need a bass clarinet or an English horn what am I going to do? Turn to another library for that? Then no more perfect balance and cohesion!


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I agree with this. Spent a while trying to convince myself to get Core because in many ways it's incredible value for money, but I concluded I really don't like how wet it is. Calling it "the broadcast standard" is imo rather an excessive claim since for many media applications it just sounds too old-fashioned and "classical"; and the trend is definitely towards drier mixes (cf the score for The Mandalorian).



Calling Core ”the broadcast standard” would be excessive if Henson said that, but he didn’t. He said Core, unlike Discover, can produce quality that is “fine for broadcast”, which is quite different. See 03:00 in the video below.

The only broadcast standard even remotely relevant is the loudness standard, the rest being a question of taste. As someone who has spent quite a lot of time recording audio, one thing that I learned early on is that room tone/atmo, whatever you want to call it, is always reflected in a recording unless you fancy recording in an anechoic chamber. Some people like a room that‘s alive, some people prefer to do their best to choke the life out


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## SupremeFist (May 29, 2020)

Rory said:


> Calling Core ”the broadcast standard” would be excessive if Henson said that, but he didn’t.


Dude, it's literally part of the sales image for Core on the Spitfire website.


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Dude, it's literally part of the sales image for Core on the Spitfire website.



Dude? Really? You go around calling people you don’t know Dude?

Henson made the point rather clearly when he said in the video that Core, unlike Discover, is broadcast quality.

It doesn’t take much grasp of English to get the same point from the web site:

”Discover: The Universal Starting Point”
”Core: The Broadcast Standard”

In any event, most people don’t read marketing bumpf as literally as you apparently do


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## SupremeFist (May 29, 2020)

Rory said:


> Dude? Really? You go around calling people you don’t know Dude?
> 
> Henson made the point rather clearly when he said in the video that Core, unlike Discover, is broadcast quality.
> 
> ...


Dude, I said Spitfire called it "the broadcast standard" and you said CH never said that, and I pointed out to you that Spitfire literally call it "the broadcast standard". You're welcome!


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Dude, I said Spitfire called it "the broadcast standard" and you said CH never said that, and I pointed out to you that Spitfire literally call it "the broadcast standard". You're welcome!



He does if you ignore the context, ignore his elaboration and instead seize on three words of marketing bumpf. Sorry, I assumed that you were being serious.

By the way, re your obsession with the word Dude, how old are you?


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## SupremeFist (May 29, 2020)

Rory said:


> By the way, re your obsession with the word Dude, how old are you?


104.


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## John R Wilson (May 29, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I do like the overall tone of the strings, but not sold on the programming just yet. Maybe after the bug fixes perhaps.



I feel the same. The BBCSO was really well recorded and I do really like the overall tone of the strings and woodwinds but the programming could be really improved on.


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

Geomir said:


> You are getting much more than the extra mics, i.e. all the removed-from-the-Core-version instruments: the bass clarinet, the English horn, all the solo strings, etc... For me all these instruments are more important than 20 different "signals"!
> 
> I wish they have followed EastWest's example in this one (they offer all the instruments and articulations of their Platinum / Diamond Versions to the Gold ones as well). I mean, if I buy BBC Core as a cohesive and balanced orchestra and need a bass clarinet or an English horn what am I going to do? Turn to another library for that? Then no more perfect balance and cohesion!



Quite right, I amended my post to include reference to the additional instruments. People were talking about mikes and I was focused on that. Right now, I don’t think that I need the additional instruments enough to pay an additional US$400 for them. You apparently feel differently. Sounds like Pro or something else would be better for you.

Myself, I’m happy with Core at $300. However, I don’t make my living from virtual instruments. My own priorities, and thoughts on expansion, are set out in this thread from earlier today: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/building-on-bbc-symphony-orchestra-bbcso-core.93977/


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## Geomir (May 29, 2020)

Rory said:


> Quite right, I amended my post to include reference to the additional instruments. People were talking about mikes and I was focused on that. Right now, I don’t think that I need the additional instruments enough to pay an additional $400 for them. You apparently feel differently. Sounds like Pro or something else would be better for you.


I understand! Just keep in mind that a solo strings library could cost $400 alone! But if you don't even need them then no problem for you! I would prefer the Pro of course, but there is my other little complain about BBC: the leap from 25 GB (Core) to 600 GB (Pro) is huge! So for me (and my PC) Core is too little (critical instruments missing) and Pro is too much (those 20 different "signals" make it huge in size and system requirements)!


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## muziksculp (May 29, 2020)

Geomir said:


> I understand! Just keep in mind that a solo strings library could cost $400 alone! But if you don't even need them then no problem for you! I would prefer the Pro of course, but there is my other little complain about BBC: the leap from 25 GB (Core) to 600 GB (Pro) is huge! So for me (and my PC) Core is too little (critical instruments missing) and Pro is too much (those 20 different "signals" make it huge in size and system requirements)!



That's exactly why a Core-Plus version, in between the Core and Pro, with 3 mic options, but all the instruments of the Pro version would have been perfect for me, and much easier to decide to buy. I'm still undecided to go with Core or Pro or none before May 31st.


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## Robert_G (May 29, 2020)

Stringtree said:


> Did you ever then get the full SStWW? I revisited this library that was super disappointing and realized the best thing I might do would be make up the difference and get the woodwinds I wanted in the first place. The other mics in the set are far superior and offer a lot of choices.
> 
> First time Paul demonstrated the other mics did it for me. Now I'll use these all the time.
> 
> ...



I'm confident that the mic choices in PRO would be an improvement, but lately I've had the opportunity to play around with VSL VI series Woodwinds. 

They are so good that they make SStWW sound literally lifeless. I'm expecting CSW to be good, so if it lives up to they hype, I'll complete the series. If not I'll go VSL VI Woodwinds. I'm shocked how lifeless SStWW sound after using VSL. VSL VI Woodwinds really puts into perspective how bad SStWW are regardless of mic options.


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

Geomir said:


> I understand! Just keep in mind that a solo strings library could cost $400 alone!



As it happens, Spitfire Solo Strings is US$240, regularly $400, through Sunday: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-solo-strings/

I'm thinking about it


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## Geomir (May 29, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> That's exactly why a Core-Plus version, in between the Core and Pro, with 3 mic options, but all the instruments of the Pro version would have been perfect for me, and much easier to decide to buy. I'm still undecided to go with Core or Pro or none before May 31st.


If you could make yourself be hired and work for Spitfire and lead the project of BBCSO Core Plus, exactly as we both described it, then I would owe you for life!


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## Geomir (May 29, 2020)

Rory said:


> As it happens, Spitfire Solo Strings is US$240, regularly $400, through Sunday: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-solo-strings/
> 
> I'm thinking about it


LOL me too! A fantastic library for sure with a very tempting price right now!  

But if you already own BBC Core, and if you have plenty of free disk space, then you should really consider the Pro version that will offer you all the solo strings with many articulations, and perfectly blended / balanced with your BBC Core.


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## muziksculp (May 29, 2020)

Geomir said:


> If you could make yourself be hired and work for Spitfire and lead the project of BBCSO Core Plus, exactly as we both described it, then I would owe you for life!



Haha... and I would make sure they have Staccatto articulations in their strings libraries. Maybe omit the short Harmonics.


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## Geomir (May 29, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Haha... and I would make sure they have Staccatto articulations in their strings libraries. Maybe omit the short Harmonics.


LOL yes fair enough! And please remind them that the bass clarinet and the English horn (not to mention the contra-bassoon) are very important instruments for any orchestra!


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## jcrosby (May 29, 2020)

Curious if they mention the dynamic range of BBCSO. Assuming its highest dynamic is _f,_ Anyone know if this is indeed the case?


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

Geomir said:


> LOL me too! A fantastic library for sure with a very tempting price right now!
> 
> But if you already own BBC Core, and if you have plenty of free disk space, then you should really consider the Pro version that will offer you all the solo strings with many articulations, and perfectly blended / balanced with your BBC Core.



Are you referring to Studio Strings Pro?: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-studio-strings-professional/

At $300, regularly $500, it's $60 more than Solo Strings, not a big difference.


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## Geomir (May 29, 2020)

Rory said:


> Are you referring to Studio Strings Pro?: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/spitfire-studio-strings-professional/
> 
> At $300, regularly $500, it's $60 more than Solo Strings, not a big difference.


No what I meant was that for you the Pro version of BBC SO might worth it, because the solo strings you are getting with it will be perfectly balanced with the rest of your orchestra.


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## AndyP (May 29, 2020)

After a while I have to say that I do not use the mix mics in BBCSO anymore. The sound is too washy for me.
Meanwhile I appreciate the possibility to use the close and spill mics. Especially for the string leaders.
Core offers only mix1, I would not be happy with that. I will remove core from the harddisk again, as I don't see any advantage in using it if you have pro, unless you need the disk space. 

I've also been listening to the TSS strings intensively, and I'm sticking with the string leaders from BBCSO. They are the best part of the library for me.
For my purposes, these will do.

What I would like for pro is the possibility to save my own mixes, as is possible in Sine. That would be a great option.


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

Geomir said:


> No what I meant was that for you the Pro version of BBC SO might worth it, because the solo strings you are getting with it will be perfectly balanced with the rest of your orchestra.



Got it. That's how I first read you, but then thought you might have been referring to the other strings library.

You are a very bad influence


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## Geomir (May 29, 2020)

AndyP said:


> After a while I have to say that I do not use the mix mics in BBCSO anymore. The sound is too washy for me.
> Meanwhile I appreciate the possibility to use the close and spill mics. Especially for the string leaders.
> Core offers only mix1, I would not be happy with that. I will remove core from the harddisk again, as I don't see any advantage in using it if you have pro, unless you need the disk space.
> 
> ...


Do you know if the Pro version has a custom install? I mean, can you choose to skip installing some mics, similar to EW Composer Cloud? Is the total size exactly 600 GB?

Hey what do you mean to remove the Core and keep only the Pro? I thought Pro includes all the Core, as an upgrade. Are they 2 different products?


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## Geomir (May 29, 2020)

AndyP said:


> and I'm sticking with the string leaders from BBCSO. They are the best part of the library for me.


Do you mean that you love the solo strings themselves, or the mics that are close to them?


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

Geomir said:


> Hey what do you mean to remove the Core and keep only the Pro? I thought Pro includes all the Core, as an upgrade. Are they 2 different products?



I downloaded Discover yesterday and purchased Core last night. Spitfire's installer moved Discover and made it a folder within Core. I don't know whether I can simply delete Discover. I haven't seen a warning against doing it.


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## AndyP (May 29, 2020)

Geomir said:


> Do you know if the Pro version has a custom install? I mean, can you choose to skip installing some mics, similar to EW Composer Cloud? Is the total size exactly 600 GB?
> 
> Hey what do you mean to remove the Core and keep only the Pro? I thought Pro includes all the Core, as an upgrade. Are they 2 different products?


Users of the Pro version could download Discover and Core separately for free. I have no use for them.

On the string leaders I like the patches themselves, and the possibility to adapt them to other libraries with the mics.


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## MarcHedenberg (May 29, 2020)

AndyP said:


> After a while I have to say that I do not use the mix mics in BBCSO anymore. The sound is too washy for me.
> Meanwhile I appreciate the possibility to use the close and spill mics. Especially for the string leaders.
> Core offers only mix1, I would not be happy with that. I will remove core from the harddisk again, as I don't see any advantage in using it if you have pro, unless you need the disk space.
> 
> ...



I was the exact same. I got the library at launch and only used the mix 2, which in my opinion is better than 1, but write a whole orchestral piece with that mix and the whole sound gets very muddy, which subtractive EQing helps with but you still lose a lot of presence on shorts. You really need the close mics for that. The worst offender for me is the harp. On its own, it sounds fantastic, but in a dense mix, if you’re using mix 1 or 2, it gets completely drowned out. Some of that I guess comes down to orchestration too I suppose.


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

AndyP said:


> Users of the Pro version could download Discover and Core separately for free. I have no use for them.



Henson's videos suggest a reason for Pro users to keep Core and/or Discover - a lighter library for use on a laptop. Thinking about it, I haven't seen a statement that Discover, for example, is needed for Core to work. I do think it's kind of neat that their installer moved and reorganised my Discover installation. That said, I'll probably delete it if I get confirmation that that's not problematic. It may be buried in a FAQ somewhere. Core isn't too big for my laptop.


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## shapeshifter00 (May 29, 2020)

I got Core and deleted Discovery, no issues with that for me. It does not appear in the BBC Orchestra plugin anymore.


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## John R Wilson (May 29, 2020)

AndyP said:


> After a while I have to say that I do not use the mix mics in BBCSO anymore. The sound is too washy for me.
> Meanwhile I appreciate the possibility to use the close and spill mics. Especially for the string leaders.
> Core offers only mix1, I would not be happy with that. I will remove core from the harddisk again, as I don't see any advantage in using it if you have pro, unless you need the disk space.
> 
> ...



I feel the same. I use core to compose with sticking with just the mix 1, then I will swap up to pro to make my own mix normally using Tree, close, mid and some ambient mics. The mix 1 is nice but as you say overall it can make a mix a little more muddy. I've found that you need those close mics to get some more clarity and its good to remove some of the room sound and ambience from the parts/instruments that are playing more short notes and bass instruments.

I've also just started using the Leaders from the BBCSO today as solo instrument. I really like what I've used from them so far. However, I haven't as of yet tested the legatos or played around with these much but the Flautando, spiccato, and col legno articulations on the leaders are very nice and of course those close mics add some nice bite and clarity to the string leaders.


----------



## John R Wilson (May 29, 2020)

Geomir said:


> Do you know if the Pro version has a custom install? I mean, can you choose to skip installing some mics, similar to EW Composer Cloud? Is the total size exactly 600 GB?
> 
> Hey what do you mean to remove the Core and keep only the Pro? I thought Pro includes all the Core, as an upgrade. Are they 2 different products?




You can remove mic positions that you don't use. You can't choose to do this on install but you can go into the folders where the samples are and delete the mics that you don't want. Their is a guide on spitfire website somewhere showing you how to do it. I've deleted a number of mics that I will never use and saved around 250 GB. I'll never use those 5 different spill mics and the majority who buy the library wont as well!!


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> I've deleted a number of mics that I will never use and saved around 250 GB.



Has that had any noticeable positive effect on computer performance?


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## John R Wilson (May 29, 2020)

Rory said:


> Has that had any noticeable positive effect on computer performance?



No change on performance. It simply removes the option to load the mic position that has been deleted.


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## muziksculp (May 29, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> You can remove mic positions that you don't use. You can't choose to do this on install but you can go into the folders where the samples are and delete the mics that you don't want. Their is a guide on spitfire website somewhere showing you how to do it. I've deleted a number of mics that I will never use and saved around 250 GB. I'll never use those 5 different spill mics and the majority who buy the library wont as well!!



This might be something I do if I end up purchasing the BBCSO Pro version just to reduce disc space. Although, deciding which mics to delete might be tricky. 

The documentation on how to do this is here : 

https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/h...-remove-specific-microphones-from-the-BBC-SO-


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## CT (May 29, 2020)

Yes, be careful getting rid of mics. I trimmed mine down, and now find myself wanting some of those I got rid of for a very prominent cello part....


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## AndyP (May 29, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> You can remove mic positions that you don't use. You can't choose to do this on install but you can go into the folders where the samples are and delete the mics that you don't want. Their is a guide on spitfire website somewhere showing you how to do it. I've deleted a number of mics that I will never use and saved around 250 GB. I'll never use those 5 different spill mics and the majority who buy the library wont as well!!


That's what I did first, on my second BBCSO hard drive for the MacBook. Until I realized that I would like to have more options.
Fortunately I have enough space on the hard disk ...
But it's a bit strange to use 2 hard drives for one library just to work on 2 devices. With the same harddisk on 2 different computers I just had problems and have to use the repair function all the time.


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## José Herring (May 29, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Also, I believe that a wet sound might be a think of the past. Like a dated sound for movies. Many of the OST I listen to have detailed strings. From Mary Poppins to Avengers. So that’s the sound I’m looking for as it makes no sense to go wet if it’s not what’s happening.


Do you have anything up on soundcloud or something with Synchron strings 1? I'm considering either synchron or finally getting SSO now that I've rulled out BBCSO for it's lack of dynamic layers.

Funny when it comes to live performing I love playing in huge churches (or at least did when I use to do it) but for film/TV I much prefer and good studio sound like ToddAO or Sony. Synchron Stage is a bit more in my taste. Plus it will be easier to go from film to TV where as SSO just says "blockbuster" all over it.


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## John R Wilson (May 29, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> This might be something I do if I end up purchasing the BBCSO Pro version just to reduce disc space. Although, deciding which mics to delete might be tricky.
> 
> The documentation on how to do this is here :
> 
> https://spitfireaudio.zendesk.com/h...-remove-specific-microphones-from-the-BBC-SO-




You can certainly remove all those individual Spill Mics, theirs 4 of them and a full spill mics, I've kept the full spill mic. I also removed the Atmos mics as I'm not doing any surround mixing. I did also remove the balcony and leader mics. I've kept the side mics but I haven't really using them that much so considering deleting them as the outriggers add quite a bit of width to the sound as they are. I believe the side mics are for adding some more extreme width to a mix.


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## John R Wilson (May 29, 2020)

AndyP said:


> That's what I did first, on my second BBCSO hard drive for the MacBook. Until I realized that I would like to have more options.
> Fortunately I have enough space on the hard disk ...
> But it's a bit strange to use 2 hard drives for one library just to work on 2 devices. With the same harddisk on 2 different computers I just had problems and have to use the repair function all the time.




Which mics did you remove that you found that you wanted to start using more of? I use it mainly on one computer so fortunately haven't had this problem but can imagine that it would be a real pain in the arse having to use the repair function all the time.


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## AndyP (May 29, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> Which mics did you remove that you found that you wanted to start using more of? I use it mainly on one computer so fortunately haven't had this problem but can imagine that it would be a real pain in the arse having to use the repair function all the time.


I had only kept the mix1 and 2, close and Tree. I didn't like the mix mics much after that... That was a little older SSD where that fit exactly on it. In the end I bought an extra SSD for it and didn't have to delete any more mics.

I actually think the Spill Mics are pretty good.


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## John R Wilson (May 29, 2020)

AndyP said:


> I had only kept the mix1 and 2, close and Tree. I didn't like the mix mics much after that... That was a little older SSD where that fit exactly on it. In the end I bought an extra SSD for it and didn't have to delete any more mics.
> 
> I actually think the Spill Mics are pretty good.



I've used the full spill mic which can be quite nice but I ended up deleting all the individual spill mics as I just assumed that I would not use them and don't really have the computer resources to run many of them alongside some others. Maybe I should have taken some more time to listen to them in a mix though before instantly deleting them.


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## Rory (May 29, 2020)

I think that if I wind up upgrading to Pro I'll install it on a one or two terabyte external SSD, probably Samsung's new T7 or maybe a Samsung 970 EVO NVMe M.2. I'm using a couple of the EVO SSDs now for other purposes, and they are wicked fast, not noticeably slower than my Mac's internal SSD.


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## AndyP (May 29, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> I've used the full spill mic which can be quite nice but I ended up deleting all the individual spill mics as I just assumed that I would not use them and don't really have the computer resources to run many of them alongside some others. Maybe I should have taken some more time to listen to them in a mix though before instantly deleting them.


The violin leaders with close and sp st mics sound good to me.
Close at about 50% and the spills at 60%. A very clear and clean sound.

It was a good fit for me, but it depends on the context in combination with other instruments, especially as I never use the BBCSO alone.


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## John R Wilson (May 29, 2020)

AndyP said:


> The violin leaders with close and sp st mics sound good to me.
> Close at about 50% and the spills at 60%. A very clear and clean sound.
> 
> It was a good fit for me, but it depends on the context in combination with other instruments, especially as I never use the BBCSO alone.



I think ill have to give this a go. When thinking about using the spill mics I was thinking more in a full orchestral context and thought that I wouldn't really use more than the full spill mic when doing a full orchestral piece but I can see how using it with the leaders could work really well. 

I've currently used mainly the close mic and tree on the leaders and get quite a clear, close sound but that makes sense using a strings spill mic with a string leader patch with the close mic as well. Looks like I may have to re-install some of those spill mic positions.


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## Prockamanisc (May 29, 2020)

AndyP said:


> With the same harddisk on 2 different computers I just had problems and have to use the repair function all the time.


Did you fix this at all? I'm having to repair my library, but I'm out of "repair" authorizations, and I'll have to wait for support to get back to me. But I have a pressing need to export stems.


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## jaketanner (May 29, 2020)

josejherring said:


> Do you have anything up on soundcloud or something with Synchron strings 1? I'm considering either synchron or finally getting SSO now that I've rulled out BBCSO for it's lack of dynamic layers.
> 
> Funny when it comes to live performing I love playing in huge churches (or at least did when I use to do it) but for film/TV I much prefer and good studio sound like ToddAO or Sony. Synchron Stage is a bit more in my taste. Plus it will be easier to go from film to TV where as SSO just says "blockbuster" all over it.


I just got it not long ago...still have yet to write with it, but gathering ideas. Learning the Synchron Player too and creating custom patches. Sorry...nothing yet.


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## AndyP (May 29, 2020)

Prockamanisc said:


> Did you fix this at all? I'm having to repair my library, but I'm out of "repair" authorizations, and I'll have to wait for support to get back to me. But I have a pressing need to export stems.


My solution was to use a separate hard disk for each computer. So extra costs of about 100$ which were not calculated. 

I don't know if there is another solution for this meanwhile, but my last state is (but that was a while ago) that Spitfire did not recommend the use of one hard disk on 2 computers.

I had some problems with the library until recently, at least on the MacBook that uses the second instance, because I reorganized the patches (less articulations, my own keyswitches, etc.) Since the last update and rebuilding the user patches it finally runs smoothly. 

No library has challenged me before to work stable and without errors.


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## Geomir (May 30, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> You can remove mic positions that you don't use. You can't choose to do this on install but you can go into the folders where the samples are and delete the mics that you don't want. Their is a guide on spitfire website somewhere showing you how to do it. I've deleted a number of mics that I will never use and saved around 250 GB. I'll never use those 5 different spill mics and the majority who buy the library wont as well!!


This changes EVERYTHING! Wow thanks I am going to check it (I mean in the Internet)! No annoying error messages I suppose after that, right? I mean, every time you open the Spitfire Player, no message and sound alert "File sdfsjfisf could not be found"!!!!!

EDIT: It's OK I found it there is an option to disable error messages!


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## Geomir (May 30, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> That's exactly why a Core-Plus version, in between the Core and Pro, with 3 mic options, but all the instruments of the Pro version would have been perfect for me, and much easier to decide to buy. I'm still undecided to go with Core or Pro or none before May 31st.


Great news! It seems, thanks to the info of the helpful members of this Forum, that the Core-Plus version already exists: 









How can I remove specific microphones from the BBC SO?


The BBC Symphony Orchestra gives you a large array of different microphone positions to choose from. Having access to these additional microphone signals can give you a great amount of control, how...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com


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## Mucusman (May 30, 2020)

I took the plunge and purchased BBCSO Core. 

I'm loving it, at least most of it. The strings are fantastic and, so far, the standout offering of the library for me. While I have Afflatus Strings and Tundra, I think this will be my new go-to for strings, and likely starting pieces in general.

Like many, I now cannot wait for the update to allow for removing articulations. Once in place, using BBCSO will become more more nimble. That's one thing I've always liked about Spitfire's libraries -- you can always load a single articulation with its minimal memory footprint. Having this currently unavailable in Core isn't pleasant. Glad a fix is coming.

I had heard the complaining of the brass section, and, so far, I'm not cringing as I feared I might... except with the solo horn. That, to me, is a disaster and basically unusable. By contrast, the horns a4 patch sounds quite pleasant to me. 

One thing that gave me confidence moving ahead with buying it was being able to watch the early BBCSO videos whereby Paul usually is using the MIX 1 while demoing instruments. And that's what you get in Core.

Finally, re-watching parts of Daniel James' epic 4-part walk-through made me all the more appreciate this Core edition. Much (but not all) of his criticism related cost (for what you get) and bloat. Core eliminates a lot of reservations in my mind. 

I think I'll probably get Pro down the road (once I can afford it), for the unique additions it provides, but I'm happy that Core doesn't take 600+ GB now.


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## Rory (May 30, 2020)

Mucusman said:


> I think I'll probably get Pro down the road (once I can afford it), for the unique additions it provides, but I'm happy that Core doesn't take 600+ GB now.



I'm deciding whether to upgrade from Core by tomorrow's deadline, and storage is a consideration. I'd put Pro on a 1TB Samsung T7 SSD. Where I am, the non-touch version is now in stock, with a price of US$200. The T5 is only $20 cheaper, so the T7 is the obvious choice. The total upgrade cost works out to $600, $400 for the upgrade and $200 for the SSD.

Having just paid $300 for Core, I don't feel a pressing need to spend another $600 on Pro


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## Giscard Rasquin (May 30, 2020)

Mucusman said:


> I took the plunge and purchased BBCSO Core.
> 
> I'm loving it, at least most of it. The strings are fantastic and, so far, the standout offering of the library for me. While I have Afflatus Strings and Tundra, I think this will be my new go-to for strings, and likely starting pieces in general.
> 
> ...



Might pick up CORE tomorrow. How you liking the woodwinds?


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## Mucusman (May 30, 2020)

GuitarG said:


> How you liking the woodwinds?



Don't put much stock in my answer, as I have only had a few hours with the library so far, AND since I already own Spitfire Symphonic Woodwinds (SSW), I wasn't paying a lot of attention to them.

That said, I used some woods in a test piece I was working on, and I was happy with how they sounded... but agaiin, I was mostly just using the legato patches.


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## Geomir (Jun 1, 2020)

shapeshifter00 said:


> I got Core and deleted Discovery, no issues with that for me. It does not appear in the BBC Orchestra plugin anymore.


How did you delete Discover? Manually? You entered the Spitfire BBC SO folder and started deleting all folders and files that containing the word "Discover"?


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## MarcHedenberg (Jun 1, 2020)

BBC Woodwinds are great - probably my favourite part about the library in fact. Only disappointment for me is the Cor Anglais. It sounds a bit flat to my ears but they’re shit ears so...


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## CatOrchestra (Jun 1, 2020)

I think BBC Core is a beautiful VST to start with, love the sound

I like that there is a "loudness" difference between the different articulations/instruments


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## shapeshifter00 (Jun 1, 2020)

Geomir said:


> How did you delete Discover? Manually? You entered the Spitfire BBC SO folder and started deleting all folders and files that containing the word "Discover"?



I might have been a bit hasty with my answer, I uninstalled Discovery from the Spitfire Audio App that was previously installed after doing the survey for a free copy and after that I did not experience any problems with Core. I can still switch to Discover mode and have all the articulations, but it does however sound like it's lower quality, but im sure there are info about that in the manual that I did not read


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## Geomir (Jun 1, 2020)

shapeshifter00 said:


> I might have been a bit hasty with my answer, I uninstalled Discovery from the Spitfire Audio App that was previously installed after doing the survey for a free copy and after that I did not experience any problems with Core. I can still switch to Discover mode and have all the articulations, but it does however sound like it's lower quality, but im sure there are info about that in the manual that I did not read


I cannot see any uninstall option in the Spitfire Audio App, only repair, locate, optimize or reset. But no big deal, I read some instructions that you can simply go to the folder and delete the Discover files.


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## PeterN (Aug 21, 2020)

The best string library, what can one say, this wiped the floor with Kontakt and any other string (orchestral) library out there. Something negative can be said also, i.e. now one needs to go and dig up all old projects and change strings (and some woods) to BBC. Its like when stereo was invented, these damn strings change sounds of whole projects. Good job, Spitfire.


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## John R Wilson (Aug 21, 2020)

PeterN said:


> The best string library, what can one say, this wiped the floor with Kontakt and any other string (orchestral) library out there. Something negative can be said also, i.e. now one needs to go and dig up all old projects and change strings (and some woods) to BBC. Its like when stereo was invented, these damn strings change sounds of whole projects. Good job, Spitfire.



What string libraries were you using previously?


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## jaketanner (Aug 21, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> What string libraries were you using previously?


Exactly, because they might sound okay, but no way are they the best. Lol


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## PeterN (Aug 22, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> What string libraries were you using previously?



I think I have somewhere between 10-12 string libraries, thats everything between solo libraries, to chamber size to Albions. Maybe its even 15 libraries, I dont bother to count, bcs it will annoy the hell that so much has been spent on them. I think I paid 450 EUR just for Albion 2 as an impulse buy, I forgot to cut the VAT (which Im eligible to) and it wasnt even on sale. Do I use it? Only the horn occasionally, so thats just to say I prefer not to look too close on those libraries. Ive never used my Olafur string libraries and never used my OT libraries either. But anyway, most of my string libraries are bought from between 2016-2019. I dont have any those new ones shown up 2020 or second half 2019. So I cant put them in comparsion. But hey, ..... if any of those can reach or even beat the BBC that is great. I dont need a better sound than this, not for coming 3 years lets say so. I cant wait to put out next project with this stuff, it made it so lush, its a completely different song. Im not a big fan of Spitfire since I felt betrayed by Albion 2, (they cancelled it without fixing it) but they deserve the credit for this one. They are forgiven now. Nothing beats the BBC strings on my list.


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## Ashermusic (Aug 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Exactly, because they might sound okay, but no way are they the best. Lol



There is no “ the best” only what a person likes best.


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## macavalon (Aug 22, 2020)

I personally think it's at a very good price for the the number of articulations and instruments you yet. I really like the legatos. I tested on Beethoven's ninth... all the instruments gel really well out of the box


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## jaketanner (Aug 22, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> There is no “ the best” only what a person likes best.


I agree it always comes down to personal taste, however it is possible to define the best libraries if broken down into sections. The libraries that have the least amount of issues can be classified as the "best". A library that has countless issues can't really be the best. I think if we can define libraries that are NOT the best, then there has to be the opposite.. 

Example: SStW pro will never be classified as the best woodwinds, but Berlin and VSL WWs? The best so far maybe until CSW comes out...(yeah right).. LOL


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## jaketanner (Aug 22, 2020)

macavalon said:


> I personally think it's at a very good price for the the number of articulations and instruments you yet. I really like the legatos. I tested on Beethoven's ninth... all the instruments gel really well out of the box



sounds great. Man I can't stand it...I really dislike SF as a company because they let so much crap slip through and then take years to address anything....but the more demos I hear of excellent mockups, the more I want the library as a whole. It's truly crazy making because if SF was more attentive to details and not just slap things together...it would be a no-brainer. I have 6 SF libraries so I am speaking from experience. It's truly hit or miss with them. I think though, if the libraries that I am waiting for are not out by Black Friday, then when BBCSO Pro goes on sale again, I'll get it. But I have to wait it out for a few other libraries first that I really want.

I do agree that the string sound is excellent!!!


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## macavalon (Aug 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> sounds great. Man I can't stand it...I really dislike SF as a company because they let so much crap slip through and then take years to address anything....but the more demos I hear of excellent mockups, the more I want the library as a whole. It's truly crazy making because if SF was more attentive to details and not just slap things together...it would be a no-brainer. I have 6 SF libraries so I am speaking from experience. It's truly hit or miss with them. I think though, if the libraries that I am waiting for are not out by Black Friday, then when BBCSO Pro goes on sale again, I'll get it. But I have to wait it out for a few other libraries first that I really want.
> 
> I do agree that the string sound is excellent!!!


I think the only thing to be aware with BBCSO Core... only one microphone mix.


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## jaketanner (Aug 22, 2020)

macavalon said:


> I think the only thing to be aware with BBCSO Core... only one microphone mix.


Just seems too many people complain about the legato in the strings and also the inconsistencies that SF is famous for. I want to be able to open the library, play the part in, and have little editing to do afterwards. I consider myself a pretty decent pianist, so I can play in my parts live...of course there is always some editing after, but I am not willing to do a shit ton of it...LOL.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I do agree that the string sound is excellent!!!


I agree the strings sound wonderful here! (To me, though, the brass very much does not.)


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## jaketanner (Aug 22, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I agree the strings sound wonderful here! (To me, though, the brass very much does not.)


right..it's not a library you'd get for the brass. I unfortunately bought their SStB pro and it's really bad...bad bad..


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## SupremeFist (Aug 22, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> right..it's not a library you'd get for the brass. I unfortunately bought their SStB pro and it's really bad...bad bad..


Spitfire are really good at strings though. Maybe that's their real specialty? (You can pry OACE from my cold, dead hands.)


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## jaketanner (Aug 22, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Spitfire are really good at strings though. Maybe that's their real specialty? (You can pry OACE from my cold, dead hands.)


Honestly, I have a few of their "better" string libraries and don't find them all that great. It's their legato and tuning that are issues for me. Lack of attention to detail is all I can say about SF. The potential to be great is there for sure...they obviously have the man power to do it, yet smaller developers just seem to be so much better. Perhaps it's a lack of talent in the scripting department or recording techniques they use...no idea.


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## macavalon (Aug 22, 2020)

I think the brass and woodwind solos are quite good, but you need to really work the dynamics/expression. Plus velocity curve I find best when set to exponential range... with linear velocity you can't get past mF !!


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## jaketanner (Aug 22, 2020)

macavalon said:


> I think the brass and woodwind solos are quite good, but you need to really work the dynamics/expression. Plus velocity curve I find best when set to exponential range... with linear velocity you can't get past mF !!


see...that's the type of issues that I'd rather not deal with. There are other options that don't give you much trouble. And then I think...what does it really take to make things right? I think this is typical SF to put out a library with "imperfections" because it makes it ore believable...sometimes yes, as in Performance Samples' stuff...but almost never in Sf's case.


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## HenryBerg (Dec 30, 2020)

The BBCSO CORE is €269 until tomorrow, which is a killer deal considering what you get. It is VERY tempting at this low price indeed.

Would you get it as a complement/sound variation? I got VSL Sychro SE VOL1 and some of the BBO packs. I've heard really good classical mockups on youtube with CORE alone, so how would this complement my VSL? I've read about its limitations (reduced dynamic range, inconsistencies and weak horns) but I got the other VSL and I'm really liking the sound of the overall BBC library. It will be only for classical composing, nada EPIC.
thx!


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## jaketanner (Dec 30, 2020)

HenryBerg said:


> The BBCSO CORE is €269 until tomorrow, which is a killer deal considering what you get. It is VERY tempting at this low price indeed.
> 
> Would you get it as a complement/sound variation? I got VSL Sychro SE VOL1 and some of the BBO packs. I've heard really good classical mockups on youtube with CORE alone, so how would this complement my VSL? I've read about its limitations (reduced dynamic range, inconsistencies and weak horns) but I got the other VSL and I'm really liking the sound of the overall BBC library. It will be only for classical composing, nada EPIC.
> thx!


Hopefully you have the free discover. That knock off an additional $50. And while core is good, pro is where the library really shines. Also there is an update coming out that addresses some issues.


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## HenryBerg (Dec 30, 2020)

I don't have the free Discovery, and I don't think there's time till tomorrow to get it for free, to later add the CORE. I'm slowly building a library in the VSL camp. 
I just thought to grab the CORE, ONLY for the low price, and to complement the tonal variety. The full BBCSO at 600GB for a million mics, is not that interstiing to me, as I'm for now on a 15" i7 MBP with 16GB (and 1TB SSD). I guess i'll get into CPU issues with the full BBCSO. Thx!


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2020)

I really, really, _really_ want to pick up Core at this price.

But then I ask myself:
1. Who is hiring you these days to write music that needs a full simulated orchestra? Nobody.
2. What are you writing for pleasure these days, orchestral simulation? No, pop songs.
3. If you do get called on to write an orchestral simulation piece, is this purchase going to make it noticeably better than what you can do with the many full orchestra libraries and specific section libraries you already have? No.

(sigh) put away the credit card, Jay.


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## Markrs (Dec 30, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I really, really, _really_ want to pick up Core at this price.
> 
> But then I ask myself:
> 1. Who is hiring you these days to write music that needs a full simulated orchestra? Nobody.
> ...


Fight the GAS Jay  (I failed to fight the GAS and bought it a few days ago, first Core then upgraded to Pro)

Just to say I got it for two reasons, a: I struggle to turn down something that looks like a bargain, b: I reasoned that I wanted to have something softer than the cinematic HO Diamond, but also was drier than SF normal material. This fit the bill for me.


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## FinGael (Dec 30, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I really, really, _really_ want to pick up Core at this price.
> 
> But then I ask myself:
> 1. Who is hiring you these days to write music that needs a full simulated orchestra? Nobody.
> ...



If you really, really, _really _want it, then buy it. And enjoy. Life is short. 

If you just want it or really want it, then quickly hide the credit card. And enjoy. Life is short.


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2020)

FinGael said:


> If you really, really, _really _want it, then buy it. And enjoy. Life is short.
> 
> If you just want it or really want it, then quickly hide the credit card. And enjoy. Life is short.


Well there are these things called bills that I am putting off paying.


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## FinGael (Dec 30, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Well there are these things called bills that I am putting off paying.



Yup. I think It's a great package for that price (yes, I have it), but I presume it's not the last time it will be discounted...


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## Ashermusic (Dec 30, 2020)

FinGael said:


> Yup. I think It's a great package for that price (yes, I have it), but I presume it's not the last time it will be discounted...


In the end, it comes down to having the self-discipline to not buy everything that you want but _know_ you don’t really need For the music you are either hired to create or are writing for pleasure.

If you have money to burn or need the tax write-offs, sure, conspicuous consumption is fine, but neither is true for me.


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## jaketanner (Dec 30, 2020)

HenryBerg said:


> I don't have the free Discovery, and I don't think there's time till tomorrow to get it for free, to later add the CORE. I'm slowly building a library in the VSL camp.
> I just thought to grab the CORE, ONLY for the low price, and to complement the tonal variety. The full BBCSO at 600GB for a million mics, is not that interstiing to me, as I'm for now on a 15" i7 MBP with 16GB (and 1TB SSD). I guess i'll get into CPU issues with the full BBCSO. Thx!


Not any more CPU than you would using the mix 1 in pro. I also have VSL libraries and I can’t say they would complement each other, perhaps the BBO brass and winds, but the strings are totally different.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 30, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> Well there are these things called bills that I am putting off paying.


You won't notice the price of BBC Core among all the other bills. 

Anyway I just got it and am extremely pleased. I really only wanted the woodwind sections to flesh out my Abbey + HOD setup, but I just added some quiet vln, vla and vlc flautandos, run through tape saturation, to a bit of a solo piano piece and they are an absolutely gorgeous warm curtain of sound.

(I decided to follow the example of @David Kudell and just put a bit of 7th Heaven on BBCSO and a bit more on HOD so they blend with Abbey, and then stop worrying about reverb and blending libraries. Sounds great!)


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## jaketanner (Dec 30, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> just put a bit of 7th Heaven on BBCSO and a bit more on HOD so they blend with Abbey, and then stop worrying about reverb and blending libraries. Sounds great!


Been using a combination of Reverberate (scoring stage) and 7HPro (Mechanics Hall)...those two together give such an incredible sound...tweak setting slightly, but otherwise it's the way to go.


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

I am actually amazed how good a deal BBC Core is if you got the Discover for free — 220€... 

It is unreal, really..


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## John R Wilson (Dec 30, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> Been using a combination of Reverberate (scoring stage) and 7HPro (Mechanics Hall)...those two together give such an incredible sound...tweak setting slightly, but otherwise it's the way to go.



7th heaven is probably one of my favourite reverbs at the moment. Works nicely with the BBCSO.


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## Markrs (Dec 30, 2020)

antanasb said:


> I am actually amazed how good a deal BBC Core is if you got the Discover for free — 220€...
> 
> It is unreal, really..


Totally agree! I upgraded to Pro, but the bargain price point is Core. A full symphony orchestra, by a top orchestra, in a fantastic studio, by a top software library provider, for the price it is selling for is just outstanding. The cavate for most users is that it is more a orchestral rather than cinematic library. For me this means it as a more subtle softer character, something I really like and adds somthing extra especially if you already have cinematic libraries.


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

Markrs said:


> Totally agree! I upgraded to Pro, but the bargain price point is Core. A full symphony orchestra, by a top orchestra, in a fantastic studio, by a top software library provider, for the price it is selling for is just outstanding. The cavate for most users is that it is more a orchestral rather than cinematic library. For me this means it as a more subtle softer character, something I really like and adds somthing extra especially if you already have cinematic libraries.



Exactly how I see it...

I love the sound.. And it really pays off to try to actually orchestrate the FFF brass section with an orchestra properly, rather than have only 12 horns patch blaring sizzly cuivre... However awesome that sounds..

And I love that bass pizz...


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## szczaw (Dec 30, 2020)

Core is very good value. Pro seems like a waste of drive space. Unless it's possible to remove mics from the library (?).


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## antanasb (Dec 30, 2020)

szczaw said:


> Core is very good value. Pro seems like a waste of drive space. Unless it's possible to remove mics from the library (?).



It is indeed possible. But you still have to install EVERYTHING first, and then delete...


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## jaketanner (Dec 30, 2020)

szczaw said:


> Core is very good value. Pro seems like a waste of drive space. Unless it's possible to remove mics from the library (?).


I think once you try Pro, you will see the benefit of those extra mics. I can't make due with the Mix 1...I also don't really like the sound all that much TBH. If I prefer a closer sound, I can get it...further away, I can get it...Mix 1 is good for some things and maybe works for straight up mockups before the live session, but not really as the final...At least not always. Besides the additional instruments and leaders...

As for off-loading...the mics don't take up space at all if not engaged.


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## szczaw (Dec 30, 2020)

antanasb said:


> It is indeed possible. But you still have to install EVERYTHING first, and then delete...


Hmm, I may get it then.


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## jaketanner (Dec 30, 2020)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> The thing is though with SF is that they don’t do refunds. So if you get it and don’t like it, there’s nothing you can do.


that's about 90% of libraries.


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## Zero&One (Dec 30, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> that's about 90% of libraries.


Who gives refunds if you don't like the product?


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## Kevinside (Dec 30, 2020)

Why?


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## jaketanner (Dec 30, 2020)

Stephen Limbaugh said:


> But it’s reality not fair.


Oh..you're 100% right. It's not fair, and at the very least offer a demo. I've been been stuck with many libraries because of this.


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## jaketanner (Dec 30, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> Who gives refunds if you don't like the product?


VSL


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## Geomir (Dec 31, 2020)

It's not only the "no refund problem". It's mainly that you cannot resell them. VSL not only allows you to test the library, even refund it, but it allows you to resell it (via license transfer). Be it immediately or in the future, if for any reason you don't need it anymore.


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## DovesGoWest (Dec 31, 2020)

Geomir said:


> It's not only the "no refund problem". It's mainly that you cannot resell them. VSL not only allows you to test the library, even refund it, but it allows you to resell it (via license transfer). Be it immediately or in the future, if for any reason you don't need it anymore.


Slightly off topic as its not BBC Core (which i have) but this is the exact reason i am hesitant to purchase HZ Percussion, i keep going back n forth between that and Damage2. I know if i go with HZ i am stuck with it and cannot resell it, whereas at least with Damage2 if i find its not the right choice then i can resell\license transfer it.


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## wst3 (Dec 31, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I really, really, _really_ want to pick up Core at this price.
> 
> But then I ask myself:
> 1. Who is hiring you these days to write music that needs a full simulated orchestra? Nobody.
> ...


@Ashermusic I'm not sure whether I should be thanking you for that list of questions, or cursing you<G>.


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## Dr.BrainyPopsin (Dec 31, 2020)

antanasb said:


> I am actually amazed how good a deal BBC Core is if you got the Discover for free — 220€...
> 
> It is unreal, really..


I agree but to you have to double it if you go for pro


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## Geomir (Dec 31, 2020)

DovesGoWest said:


> Slightly off topic as its not BBC Core (which i have) but this is the exact reason i am hesitant to purchase HZ Percussion, i keep going back n forth between that and Damage2. I know if i go with HZ i am stuck with it and cannot resell it, whereas at least with Damage2 if i find its not the right choice then i can resell\license transfer it.


I feel you. I was ready to pull the trigger for Cinesymphony Core (or even Complete!) but I never did for the same reason. These are very expensive tools, and that's why I truly respect all the companies that at least allow license transfer.


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## Markrs (Dec 31, 2020)

Dr.BrainyPopsin said:


> I agree but to you have to double it if you go for pro


Indeed, Core is where the value sweet spot is, but I was still seduced into getting pro for the Leaders, extra instruments and mics. However the extra hard drive space increases the cost as you might need to get an another drive.


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## antanasb (Dec 31, 2020)

Markrs said:


> Indeed, Core is where the value sweet spot is, but I was still seduced into getting pro for the Leaders, extra instruments and mics. However the extra hard drive space increases the cost as you might need to get an another drive.



Ssd space is also a major concern for me..

Despite all that, it keeps me using Core and concentrating on music more rather than samples...

Pays off... 🙂


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## Markrs (Dec 31, 2020)

antanasb said:


> Ssd space is also a major concern for me..
> 
> Despite all that, it keeps me using Core and concentrating on music more rather than samples...
> 
> Pays off... 🙂


Yep, mine had to go onto an external HDD (so a bit slow), where as before the Core was on NVMe. The other sad thing is you can't have Pro on HDD and Core on an SSD, as you can only set one location for all of BBCSO (it looks like you can as each part of BBCSO has a location option but where ever you switch it to it will look for all of BBCSO there). I was a bit gutted when I realised this, as I wanted Core on the NVMe for everyday use and as I progressed the work, to then switch to the pro version and play around with the Mics.

I might end up with having Pro with only the 1st mic mix on the NVMe (also get the Leaders and extra instruments this way) and then the full Pro on a HDD. Then change the location in the Spitfire app when I want to play with the mics. It's not ideal though.


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## HenryBerg (Dec 31, 2020)

I can't stand it anymore! Been watching Youtube videos and Core alone produces beautiful classical mockups! For €269 I think it's too good to miss.


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## antanasb (Dec 31, 2020)

HenryBerg said:


> I can't stand it anymore! Been watching Youtube videos and Core alone produces beautiful classical mockups! For €269 I think it's too good to miss.




Indeed! It really is increadible despite its quirks!

If you have the free Discover, it is 220 I then!


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## HenryBerg (Dec 31, 2020)

Oh please stop, I have my credit card in my hand, also wanting 3+1 €100 vouchers for BBO, which should complement BBCSO Core lacking (Brass, Wood and ???)


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## Geomir (Dec 31, 2020)

szczaw said:


> Core is very good value. Pro seems like a waste of drive space. Unless it's possible to remove mics from the library (?).


Here is the exact process. It's not very difficult or risky if you are careful.









How can I remove specific microphones from the BBC SO?


The BBC Symphony Orchestra gives you a large array of different microphone positions to choose from. Having access to these additional microphone signals can give you a great amount of control, how...




spitfireaudio.zendesk.com





Still I will not be upgrading to Pro until they include this "process" in their install / setup settings. I suppose it cannot be so hard to have a "custom mic setup" asking the user "Please check / uncheck the mics that you would like to be installed".

I own Core and I agree that even with its quirks it is a fantastic value for money full orchestra.

Also upgrading to Pro for $330 is a great price. The problem that I have (and it it seems I am not the only one) is the huge leap from 25GB (Core) to almost 600GB (Pro).


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## Dr.BrainyPopsin (Dec 31, 2020)

I got core now what shall I get next before the day is gone


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## antanasb (Dec 31, 2020)

HenryBerg said:


> Oh please stop, I have my credit card in my hand, also wanting 3+1 €100 vouchers for BBO, which should complement BBCSO Core lacking (Brass, Wood and ???)



Majority says brass is the weakest, even downright unusable, though I disagree. 

I agree about the flaws in scripting though. I think the imminent update looming in the coming weeks fixes majority of the flaws..


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## John R Wilson (Dec 31, 2020)

antanasb said:


> Majority says brass is the weakest, even downright unusable, though I disagree.
> 
> I agree about the flaws in scripting though. I think the imminent update looming in the coming weeks fixes majority of the flaws..



I have my fingers crossed that this upcoming update will improve some key things that have been mentioned. I few good scripting improvements, improvements to the string legatos/options to remove the spic overlays and things like the horn being improved would be amazing and would probably make this one of my favourite libraries.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 31, 2020)

antanasb said:


> Majority says brass is the weakest, even downright unusable, though I disagree.
> 
> I agree about the flaws in scripting though. I think the imminent update looming in the coming weeks fixes majority of the flaws..


I've just been exploring it yesterday and today for the first time and am pleasantly surprised to find the brass is not bad at all, really quite rich and nice if you keep a steady hand on the modwheel (except for the solo horn). And the woods are great, no need to replace those.


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## John R Wilson (Dec 31, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> I've just been exploring it yesterday and today for the first time and am pleasantly surprised to find the brass is not bad at all, really quite rich and nice if you keep a steady hand on the modwheel (except for the solo horn). And the woods are great, no need to replace those.


Woods are very nice. Brass is not bad. The lower dynamics on the brass is really nice and warm sounding. Its main issue is with the crossfades between dynamics, they are not the best and that horn is not good due to that horrible crossfade to the higher dynamic. I personally don't care that much that the brass does not hit the really loud dynamics, their is a cuivre patch for that and you can easily integrate another brass library for the louder dynamics if really needed. I use Infinite Brass and EWHO Brass alongside it. The thing that I want improved with the brass is the crossfades and in particular that solo Horn.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 31, 2020)

John R Wilson said:


> Woods are very nice. Brass is not bad. The lower dynamics on the brass is really nice and warm sounding. Its main issue is with the crossfades between dynamics, they are not the best and that horn is not good due to that horrible crossfade to the higher dynamic. I personally don't care that much that the brass does not hit the really loud dynamics, their is a cuivre patch for that and you can easily integrate another brass library for the louder dynamics if really needed. I use Infinite Brass and EWHO Brass alongside it. The thing that I want improved with the brass is the crossfades and in particular that solo Horn.


Absolutely, HO Brass here too (those horns have that wonderful loud but still noble and round tone which BBCSO doesn't quite get).


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## antanasb (Dec 31, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Absolutely, HO Brass here too (those horns have that wonderful loud but still noble and round tone which BBCSO doesn't quite get).



I started to blend tenor and bass trombones for that full raspy sound. Works wonders!!


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## szczaw (Dec 31, 2020)

Here's an idea: BBCSO Complete with all instruments and one microphone, priced between Core and Pro.


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## John R Wilson (Dec 31, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Absolutely, HO Brass here too (those horns have that wonderful loud but still noble and round tone which BBCSO doesn't quite get).



Hollywood brass is great for the louder dynamics and seems to work very well with BBCSO.


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## antanasb (Dec 31, 2020)

szczaw said:


> Here's an idea: BBCSO Complete with all instruments and one microphone, priced between Core and Pro.



I would take it otherwise — same articulations and Close, Tree, Ambient and Outrigger mics...


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## Geomir (Dec 31, 2020)

szczaw said:


> Here's an idea: BBCSO Complete with all instruments and one microphone, priced between Core and Pro.


You are late! We have already inspired this version in the recent past here, and it's named BBCSO Core Plus!


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## mybadmemory (Dec 31, 2020)

szczaw said:


> Here's an idea: BBCSO Complete with all instruments and one microphone, priced between Core and Pro.


Would also love that! Totally interested in the full instrument list but not at all in the mic positions!


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## el-bo (Dec 31, 2020)

mybadmemory said:


> Would also love that! Totally interested in the full instrument list but not at all in the mic positions!


Perhaps they could sell individual mic's as add-ons like MIR has packs for extra halls 🤷


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## rmak (Dec 31, 2020)

I am thinking of just picking this up because it is cheap for quality orchestra. Does anyone know if bbcso core will layer well with other dry libraries like LASS, MSS, EWHO, EW POTUS? BBCSO does seem to be more on the dry side.

Update: nope I am not doing it =)


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## John R Wilson (Dec 31, 2020)

rmak said:


> I am thinking of just picking this up because it is cheap for quality orchestra. Does anyone know if bbcso core will layer well with other dry libraries like LASS, MSS, EWHO, EW POTUS? BBCSO does seem to be more on the dry side.
> 
> Update: nope I am not doing it =)


EWHO layers well with BBCSO.


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## KallumS (Dec 31, 2020)

szczaw said:


> Here's an idea: BBCSO Complete with all instruments and one microphone, priced between Core and Pro.


I wish core libraries would include 2 mixes or even 2 mics, such as tree and close.


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## Nadav (Jan 1, 2021)

Did anyone noticed a noise in one of the round robins of staccato with both violins or is it just me? kind of a screech. Play for example B2 for a few times and you'll hear it.


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