# DAW building companies, is it worth it?



## JeffvR (Sep 24, 2019)

So there are several DAW builders around. We have a couple of them in the Netherlands. My system at the moment is a 5 year old PC with 64GB and a i7 4930k CPU. I had it build by a computer shop. It served me well, but since updating to Windows 10, my PC sometimes get's stuck, like TOTALLY stuck. The mouse doesn't move and CTRL+ALT+DELETE doesn't work. The only way to reboot is hold the power button for a while. Not so good for a PC I guess. I want to get the most out of my PC so I'll bring it to a PC guy who really knows what he's doing. I tried a couple of things but my computer still get's stuck at random occasions. A DAW builder suggested to update the bios and do a clean install of Windows 10. I'm also thinking about the next step, which is probably buying a new PC. I use it as a profession and during deadlines I want my PC to work and don't lose time. What are your guys experiences with a DAW builder vs. doing it yourself? A friend of mine bought one from a DAW builder for €7k and he thinks it's totally worth it because:

- The DAW builders know what components work best to work with a DAW and work with each other
- They can tweak things within Windows so it's more suited for DAW use
- They know their build inside out, so when there's something you can always call them and ask for help
- You'll get emails with updates you can use. So no updates anymore where stuff isn't working anymore after an update
- I'm a musician so I don't want to be "busy" with the computer side of things. Although I like the tech behind it, first and foremost it has to work. It has to work reliable and fast.

He says his system works like a charm, no random CPU spikes and very smooth sailing so far. "Professional" composers who use PC's almost always choose the DAW builder route. So besides the benefits there's one huge downside and it's price. For 3/4 or even 1/2 of the price you'll be able to build a similar computer yourself.

Some other random thing I see. DAW builders always use a Nvidia video card, while over here everyone agrees AMD Radeon is way more stable and gives less latency. Why? (I have an AMD at the moment)


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## osum (Sep 24, 2019)

JeffvR said:


> - The DAW builders know what components work best to work with a DAW and work with each other
> - They can tweak things within Windows so it's more suited for DAW use
> - They know their build inside out, so when there's something you can always call them and ask for help
> - You'll get emails with updates you can use. So no updates anymore where stuff isn't working anymore after an update
> - I'm a musician so I don't want to be "busy" with the computer side of things. Although I like the tech behind it, first and foremost it has to work. It has to work reliable and fast.



Pretty much this, yes. Of course that might depend on the competence of the builder but those are the main benefits.

I bought my new workstation at the beginning of this year from such a builder and I'm really happy with it. He only uses components that work together well and have been tested, he also did some adjustments in the BIOS such as disabling the C-States which is also recommended here on the board. (as well as some other stuff) So I pretty much got a ready-to-use workhorse.

Another reason for me was -- and this might seem a bit weird -- is that I work full-time in IT. I'm absolutely sick of spending any time in my free time (and composing etc is my ambitioned hobby in that case) with hardware or any IT related stuff.
I had always built my workstation myself but there are always problems with compatibility of components, even if they are perfectly compatible on paper. I just don't have the time and patience to waste my little free time for stuff like that.



JeffvR said:


> Some other random thing I see. DAW builders always use a Nvidia video card, while over here everyone agrees AMD Radeon is way more stable and gives less latency. Why? (I have an AMD at the moment)



Well I mean graphics cards are pretty irrelevant. Maybe it's one of those remains of better using Nvidia cards with Intel CPUs. But that part really shouldn't matter.


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## rgames (Sep 24, 2019)

DAW builders don't pick better components or know better how to set them up. If you think that's the value then just copy what they do - they don't file any patents because there's nothing to protect.

The value they provide is in service when things go wrong. So figure out who has the best value for the services you need because that's the only reason to spend the extra money.

Regarding NVidia vs AMD - I've used both and have never seen an indication that one is better than the other. I think I'm 100% NVidia right now on desktops and laptop.

rgames


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## BGvanRens (Sep 24, 2019)

Being dutch myself I am curious which DAW builders you have found. Those that I managed to find had very limited offerings in systems at the time I last checked (several years ago). I run an 4820k, but planning to get a new system myself as well.


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## pderbidge (Sep 24, 2019)

rgames said:


> DAW builders don't pick better components or know better how to set them up



I agree, there is no mystery here for anyone experienced in building a PC. The one positive thing I could say for a DAW builder is if they are building a lot of systems they might be more aware of quality control issues with certain motherboards and other components. I know that if I were to do it for a living I would pick a few components I felt were solid, then I would test them and if all went well I would stick with those configurations for my builds as standard, which is probably what the OP is pointing out. What I probably wouldn't do if I were selling systems is go with the cutting edge platforms just to allow the the bios to mature before adopting a new platform that I'm willing to sell and support.

I recently advised a friend, who had never built a PC before, on what to buy and how to do the build. He did it all in a weekend without a single hitch. Of course, me being the "expert" had tons of little issues to resolve with my new build, LOL. Sometimes that's just how it goes.


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## wst3 (Sep 24, 2019)

Well I think they do bring some value, I've worked with Jim at StudioCat and he has become an indispensable resource.

I still build my own, but I confer with Jim before I do anything else.

I enjoy building things, even computers.
I am cheap, and like to reuse as many components as I can.
I also value my time, and the time required to do the research every 4 or 5 years is no longer something I am willing to invest.
I also dislike surprises. If Jim gives me a parts list I am confident it will work well, and thus far it has.

If money were no object I'd just buy a new machine from him, and that becomes more attractive each time, but thus far I've just paid for his knowledge. It has worked out well.


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## kitekrazy (Sep 24, 2019)

wst3 said:


> Well I think they do bring some value, I've worked with Jim at StudioCat and he has become an indispensable resource.
> 
> I still build my own, but I confer with Jim before I do anything else.
> 
> ...



He also gets to test new hardware. I keep most of my builds simple and only get certain brands of boards. I like them with less junk. Only sloppy development and resource hungery soft synths has made the need for upgrading.


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## JeffvR (Sep 24, 2019)

BGvanRens said:


> Being dutch myself I am curious which DAW builders you have found. Those that I managed to find had very limited offerings in systems at the time I last checked (several years ago). I run an 4820k, but planning to get a new system myself as well.


I found this one: https://www.vmusicpro.com/daw-computers/ seems to be up to date and lot's of offerings.


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## JeffvR (Sep 24, 2019)

rgames said:


> DAW builders don't pick better components or know better how to set them up. If you think that's the value then just copy what they do - they don't file any patents because there's nothing to protect.
> 
> The value they provide is in service when things go wrong. So figure out who has the best value for the services you need because that's the only reason to spend the extra money.
> 
> ...


I think you're right about components, although the one thing they never mention is the motherboard and sometimes the RAM brand is left out.


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 24, 2019)

Answer to OP: no they aren’t worth it, unless they are. That is, if you’re comfortable and knowledgeable about the hardware and Windows, it’s better to roll your own. And cheaper, as a bonus. If you aren’t, then absolutely pay a pro - especially if your business and/or livelihood depends on it.


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## chimuelo (Sep 24, 2019)

Also DAW builders using consumer gaming boards while being familiar with GFX Cards, and on die CPU/GFX combos, might not have tried or used Server boards which are industrial strength motherboards, that are fantastic options that are designed to operate for longer hours under higher temps.
These are not designed for over clocking so they last for years like Supermicro Servers have.

The Graphics are built into these boards, and called BMCs because they offr remote management which means you can reboot without being at the PC.
But best if all its Graphics are better suited for audio because they arent concerned with FPS, but rather stability, heat and fast DRAM.

The company with the best chips is Aspeed, and their 2400/2500 and newer AT2600 w/ 2GBs of DRAM can run triple monitors without breaking a sweat.

Ive used Supermicro, and mire recently ASRock Rack optimized Workstation/Server boards. I perform live with these and have had a 100% crash free run for over a decade.
Ive used Consumer/Gaming boards too and they work great but the thicker PCB and short trace lines on Server boards (no blinking christmas tree lights, or ring tones) last for years.

I still have a Gigastudio DAW thats 15 years old with a Supermicro P4SCT+II motherboard. Back when Broadcom made chipsets for CPUs.

If you do build your own check out ASRock, Asus, Gigabyte and Supermicro for another option to consumer/gaming boards. Theyre not expensive and have zero gunk.

These 2 boards are what Ive used for the last 6 years. Inactually get nervous and make them spares after a few years becasue I cant take a chance of a crash. But thy still are used for experimental projects that really oush the limits and also act as my online PC. My main PC forngihs stays offline as much as possible.

Heres an H97, slimmed down version of the Z97.
These are gaming/consumer chipsets on a server quality board.
Best of both worlds.
You get to use non Xeon CPUs that are generally faster and use cheaper DRAM.


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## ChrisLudwig (Oct 8, 2019)

Hi,
I hope you don't mind if I comment on this being a DAW builder. I'll try to be too self-promoting.  

If you have built a computer before and you know how the hardware and software works, then yes, it is true that you can build a decent machine on your own. 
In general, systems are way easier to DIY build a system thanks to the gaming world than in the past. Nowadays, you have to go out of your way to make your system go up in a puff of smoke because of some jumper or BIOs setting being wrong. 
You are mainly paying for the experience, knowledge, and tech support of the people building the system. 

Does the DAW builder have real-world knowledge of a wide range of computer components and how they interact with each other? 

Does the DAW builder have experience and knowledge of how your DAW hardware and software should be installed and configured and should work on the system? 

Is the DAW builder experienced in troubleshooting stability, performance, and compatibility issues with your DAW software/hardware? 

Is the DAW builder experienced installing, configuring, and using in a production environment popular DAW software and hardware? 

Is the DAW builder also knowledgeable of video production software and hardware? It is getting pretty common for studios, producers and composers to have to deal with more than just video playback in a DAW. 

There is a ton of great information available nowadays on the interwebz, so if someone has the time, patience, and drive to DIY a system, then excellent and more power to them. That is how I first learned what to do and NOT to do some 20 years ago. 
Some DAW builders like myself and Jim Roseberry offer paid consultation. Mostly for computer support but also ay least speaking for myself, I also provide support basic installation, configuration, and troubleshooting of common DAW and video software and hardware. 
Thanks, Chris Ludwig


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## iMovieShout (Oct 9, 2019)

These days building a PC yourself is much much easier than it was say 5 years ago.
Its a simple matter of deciding what specification you want that can fit your budget. 
There are basically 2 extremes:
1) CHEAPEST: What is the cheapest but fastest setup and how much will that cost, and,
2) FASTEST: For unlimited budget, then what is the fastest and best performing setup.
There is a 3rd option, and that is to find something in between options 1 and 2.

Option 2 is fairly easy and straightforward because the primary constraint is the maximum number of processor threads supported by Windows, which is currently 64 for Windows 10, or in theory unlimited for Windows Server 201 and 2019 (though there are alot of overheads in having a Windows Server setup - particularly if you want to run it as a PC-Workstation.
If option 2 is your preferred route, then the spec would be something like a dual-CPU setup ideally with a motherboard that support Thunderbolt (as many of the high-end samplers and speaker drivers use this - such as UAD Apollo). Memory is largely dependant upon whether you want your PC to be standalone and have your samples loaded in to your PC memory, or, if you want to use your PC solely as a DAW machine with your samples and libraries loaded in to a separate server machine running VEPro. If the latter then probably 32GB or above running Windows 10 would suffice. If you want to load your samples and libraries in to your PC's memory then the more memory you have the better (at least 64GB ideally). You'll probably also want to consider a PCIe installed graphics card to connect your screen(s). AMD Radeon or FirePro cards are best. NVIDIA causes a lot of latency issues (we know we have tested them).

For a more basic setup, as per option1, then probably a 4-core / 8-thread processor setup and motherboard would do, but if you are planning on creating mega-templates in your DAW or running more than a couple of sample libraries on your PC, then you are likely to run out of processing power very quickly and it will all start grinding to a snails pace.

The spec we use in our studio for our main PC-Workstation, Option 2, is as follows and is a result of some trial and error initially with a single CPU and ASUS motherboard, then moving to the dual CPU setup below but with various NVIDIA graphics cards (such as GTX-1060 and GTX-1070, which cause all sort so issues for DAWs and audio, and slow/sticking windows). We finally ended up with this, which works really well with Cubase / Nuendo, ProTools, and Adobe's various products:
- Dual CPU, Intel E5-2696v3
- Motherboard: SuperMicro X10DAI which comes Thunderbolt ready - just need to buy and install the add-on Thunderbolt card with slots in to one of the PCIe slots.
- Memory: 256GB DDR4 2133MHz
- Graphics Card: AMD Radeon Pro WX7100 8GB (support x4 4k DisplayPort screens easily)
- Sound + Sampling: UAD Apollo
- Various Samsung SSDs: EVO 970 1TB for main drive, and EVO 860 2TB for data drive
- Windows10 Pro

This gives us the most scalability and flexibility for writing fairly large scores with templates exceeding 12000 tracks (300 instrument / VST and approx 11000 MIDI, with anything between 30 to 100 audio tracks (thats both bounced audio and cues)). Tend to have around 6 sample libraries loaded in to PC memory, with the rest sat on our servers.

For Option1, then you'll find many examples on VI-Control, but for professional scalable setups, I'd recommend Option2, if only starting with one CPU and 32GB memory, and adding more with time and budget.


Hope that helps


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## gsilbers (Oct 9, 2019)

I used pc building sites like magic micro and pcbuilder to get the list of components I might need. Then cross referenced it here and other places to get more of an idea of what to use for sample streaming and music pc and also made sure that it has the peripherals ports I need. Then went to an online store and bought the components and built it myself. I’m a mac guy who doesn’t know about pc and also don’t want to be tweaking all day and I was able to build my pc system easily and has been great for a few years. There is a lot of info.
and newer releases get the setups more solid than before.


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## Tim_Wells (Oct 9, 2019)

I've had great luck just using custom PC builders (not specifically DAW builders). 

For my next upgrade, I'm seriously considering taking my existing box and simply upgrading the components. I may get one of the local PC repair shops to do the work. I know there can be Windows 10 issues to work through when you upgrade the CPU and other things.


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## JeffvR (Oct 14, 2019)

Thanks for all the valuable information guys! I noticed there's a huge price gap between doing it yourself and the DAW builder. Probably too big to make it worth it, just for "service". I'm able to build a Ryzen 3900x machine for just under €3k with 64GB of RAM and a couple of 2TB M2 drives. The same configuration with the DAW builder is close to €4k!

I've also read this on the Steinberg website about optimizing your Windows 10 system for DAW use: Modern systems with a fully updated Windows 10 should not need any of the default settings to be modified. Source: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/...C38x05248nbq_KPbDTiDjZHFcd2sCmYymUTvcs05lQiRQ


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## ChrisLudwig (Oct 15, 2019)

Hi,
Yes, there is very little to tweak performance-wise at the OS level in Windows 10 compared to Windows 7. 
Mostly user preferences really. 
Mostly Bios settings that help improve stability/performance. But, yes if someone has the time to do the research and testing on their own then it can be pretty fulfilling to build their own system. 
The price difference seems totally reasonable assuming the DAW builder is willing to offer tech support for the lifetime of the system rather than just the parts warranty period like Dell, HP, etc. 
Some offer support for things beyond the basic Operating system level like offering help for installing, troubleshooting and configuring audio/video software and hardware. 
Naturally, there is a labor cost and since none of the DAW builders are as big as Dell.  that make money from volume sales. 
Chris


JeffvR said:


> Thanks for all the valuable information guys! I noticed there's a huge price gap between doing it yourself and the DAW builder. Probably too big to make it worth it, just for "service". I'm able to build a Ryzen 3900x machine for just under €3k with 64GB of RAM and a couple of 2TB M2 drives. The same configuration with the DAW builder is close to €4k!
> 
> I've also read this on the Steinberg website about optimizing your Windows 10 system for DAW use: Modern systems with a fully updated Windows 10 should not need any of the default settings to be modified. Source: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/...C38x05248nbq_KPbDTiDjZHFcd2sCmYymUTvcs05lQiRQ


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## DAW PLUS (Oct 18, 2019)

rgames said:


> DAW builders don't pick better components or know better how to set them up. If you think that's the value then just copy what they do - they don't file any patents because there's nothing to protect.
> 
> The value they provide is in service when things go wrong. So figure out who has the best value for the services you need because that's the only reason to spend the extra money.
> 
> ...


I beg to differ. While the majority of DAW builders use standard gaming components, some (like us) use industrial or enterprise components and DO know better how to set them up. While you may be very experienced and well informed, that doesn't mean the average user is. Our (mainly professional) customers usually have no clue about how to set it up and those who do usually lack some of the details to make the better choice.

That does not mean a DAW builder is for everyone. We invest a lot of time and that needs to be paid for, which you will not invoice yourself when building a system yourself. So the component for component comparison does not make sense.

Also, the service aspect: IMO the value of a DAW builder is that you would not need service or support, but rather a set and forget system that works until in years, you simply need more power due to 6 later versions of Cubase and plugins requiring more juice.

It is a personal choice, our customer base typically the professional who simply can't be bothered by building him/herself and insisting on something that runs for years without issues, 24/7 operation reliability. Other vendors may have a different customer base.


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## DAW PLUS (Oct 18, 2019)

JeffvR said:


> Thanks for all the valuable information guys! I noticed there's a huge price gap between doing it yourself and the DAW builder. Probably too big to make it worth it, just for "service".


As stated in my previous post, the biggest difference in price is the employee time, but also tooling, R&D so you actually get something which will work, warranty and a bit of overhead. It IS a service.


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## DAW PLUS (Oct 18, 2019)

JeffvR said:


> I found this one: https://www.vmusicpro.com/daw-computers/ seems to be up to date and lot's of offerings.


I don't know them, despite me being Dutch as well but living & working in Hamburg, Germany.
But this sentence is utmost nonsense to me:
"Dat is precies de reden waarom wij *als enige fabrikant* het Windows besturingssysteem grondig aanpakken. Onze DAW systemen worden geleverd met een *Windows besturingssysteem* dat tegenwoordig *op meer dan 150 punten is gewijzigd en verbeterd*. Daarmee leveren onze systemen gemiddeld *15-25% meer prestaties* en zijn ze *tot 50% stabieler* dan vergelijkbare zelfbouw- of standaard computers. "
They are definitely NOT the only one tweaking Windows, we do it for 15 years now and I know most others (the few good ones I have contact with) do it as well one way or another. The 15-25% better performance is basically setting the power plan to high performance which is a MUST on Windows. And what 50% more stability means...I don't know. It sounds like they compare to off-the-shelf systems which are trashed by preinstalled crapware.
That all does not mean they might not be a good manufacturer, I am just baffled by that nonsense.


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## DaveBCC (Oct 20, 2019)

I’m a big believer in using PC builders. They have years of experience building machines on a day to day basis, and can customize to your specific needs. After going back and forth to define specs that were ideal for my use, I just had Fundamental Audio build a killer x299 machine that doesn’t even blink at 128 buffer in Pro Tools with Spitfire strings, Superior drums, UVI Falcon synths, and multiple reverbs. I probably could have cobbled together and eventually configured a system like that myself, but having an experienced builder do it for me was a much more efficient use of my time and resources. 

Also, the post delivery support alluded to above is such a big deal. In the Mac Pro thread on Gearslutz, someone recently pointed out (well, maybe speculated) that one of the reasons Hans Zimmer uses PCs is that he has dedicated people who manage those PCs to make sure they work the way they’re supposed to. In my case, having Fundamental Audio available for support is essentially the equivalent, since Chris has extensive background not only with pro audio PCs, but also with the major DAWs and the popular interface/conversion hardware people use for this stuff. With my previous ADK quad core build, Chris and team provided support for the entire (9 year) life of the machine, as I upgraded drives, memory, and OS. If you don’t want to expend the effort of getting under the hood to do your own PC management and interface troubleshooting, that kind of long term support is invaluable.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 20, 2019)

In terms of picking out the best parts and whatnot, that's not really a thing nowadays. As long as the parts are compatible, it'll be fine. Those companies don't buy 20 different motherboards and then test them to see which one will perform best because it's not necessary. Just put together a system that works and you'll be fine. Just know that you can avoid most gaming related features that make components like motherboards more expensive. The most stripped down basic versions should have all you need and work flawlessly.

In terms of optimizing OS, there's not really anything to be done anymore. The few things you can do, many companies like NI and Steinberg have guides. These companies aren't doing anything more than that. There's nothing special going on.

Yes, the support from these companies tend to be really great. My first PC was from Rain Computers (US division no longer exists and owner of UK started Molten Music Technology) and I had to deal with support many times. They were very attentive but ultimately never solved the issues I had. I still had to figure things out on my own. The only time they were actually helpful was when they sent me a replacement ram stick and guided me through figuring out which one was bad.

My second computer I had built at a computer shop here. That was a terrible experience as it took 2 months for them to get the computer working. All ram wouldn't show up, motherboard died, they blamed my graphics card, new mobo died with a new graphics card, eventually rebuilt the computer with entirely new parts and it worked. That computer had performance issues which I was never able to solve and no one else was able to help with. As far as I can tell, something was seriously wrong with that motherboard (2 of them died within a week of use...).

My third and current studio computer I put together in an afternoon. I had some difficulties overclocking but once I restored it to the default OC settings, it worked flawlessly. Hasn't had a single issue. Out of the box the other systems already had issues to solve. 

My point is that building it yourself is easy and the support that you get from other services might be helpful if something dies (which is unlikely during the warranty period) but other than that, they won't solve any complicated issues with performance or strange behavior.

The most difficult part is figuring out what processor you should go with but that'll happen regardless of if it's DIY or from some company. Ya, they can give you some advice but it's still down to you to make a decision about what you think might work best for your needs. You'll get just as good advice by posting on here.


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## ChrisLudwig (Oct 21, 2019)

DaveBCC said:


> I’m a big believer in using PC builders. They have years of experience building machines on a day to day basis, and can customize to your specific needs. After going back and forth to define specs that were ideal for my use, I just had Fundamental Audio build a killer x299 machine that doesn’t even blink at 128 buffer in Pro Tools with Spitfire strings, Superior drums, UVI Falcon synths, and multiple reverbs. I probably could have cobbled together and eventually configured a system like that myself, but having an experienced builder do it for me was a much more efficient use of my time and resources.
> 
> Also, the post delivery support alluded to above is such a big deal. In the Mac Pro thread on Gearslutz, someone recently pointed out (well, maybe speculated) that one of the reasons Hans Zimmer uses PCs is that he has dedicated people who manage those PCs to make sure they work the way they’re supposed to. In my case, having Fundamental Audio available for support is essentially the equivalent, since Chris has extensive background not only with pro audio PCs, but also with the major DAWs and the popular interface/conversion hardware people use for this stuff. With my previous ADK quad core build, Chris and team provided support for the entire (9 year) life of the machine, as I upgraded drives, memory, and OS. If you don’t want to expend the effort of getting under the hood to do your own PC management and interface troubleshooting, that kind of long term support is invaluable.


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## TimRideout (Dec 13, 2020)

Very insightful thread! Can anyone speak to low noise and low voltage/heat components for audio production DAWs?


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## Fitz (Dec 14, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> In terms of picking out the best parts and whatnot, that's not really a thing nowadays. As long as the parts are compatible, it'll be fine. Those companies don't buy 20 different motherboards and then test them to see which one will perform best because it's not necessary. Just put together a system that works and you'll be fine. Just know that you can avoid most gaming related features that make components like motherboards more expensive. The most stripped down basic versions should have all you need and work flawlessly.
> 
> In terms of optimizing OS, there's not really anything to be done anymore. The few things you can do, many companies like NI and Steinberg have guides. These companies aren't doing anything more than that. There's nothing special going on.
> 
> ...


Did you switch from Mac to PC? I just built a PC workstation using a intel 10980xe after my entire career on Mac.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 14, 2020)

Fitz said:


> Did you switch from Mac to PC? I just built a PC workstation using a intel 10980xe after my entire career on Mac.


No, I've always been on PC although for a while I owned a Mac for when needed.


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## Fitz (Dec 14, 2020)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> No, I've always been on PC although for a while I owned a Mac for when needed.


Any tips for optimizing cubase on PC or does it work just fine, like you mentioned.


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Dec 14, 2020)

Fitz said:


> Any tips for optimizing cubase on PC or does it work just fine, like you mentioned.


If you run into problems then there are the usual asio guard settings to experiment with but other than that, no. Pretty much everyone I know who has switched says that Cubase runs better on PC's. PT is the opposite but I've never had issues with it on PC.


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## JeffvR (Dec 17, 2020)

So some of you might want to know how the story ended :D. I went with the AMD 3960x with 128 GB of RAM (an upgrade to 256GB is still possible). I wanted it to be future proof so I put in 2x2TB Nvme for samples, a 1TB project drive and a 512 GB Nvme boot drive. Price: around €5k, you can build one on your own for around €4k (maybe even €3k at the moment) but I was done with all the hassle and wanted support from a "professional". So I thought this thing would be rock solid with little to no issues the upcoming 5-10 years. 

In hindsight maybe not the best CPU: http://www.scanproaudio.info/2020/02/27/2020-q1-cpus-in-the-studio-overview/ The only thing my DAW builder showed was a CPU benchmark score (which is kind of irrelevent in the stuff we do). Aside from that:

The first thing I noticed was how loud this beast was. So I called my DAW builder. He said: yes I've optimised the fans, but this is normal for a CPU that eats power like this one does. Later on he admitted he used 2 smaller fans instead of 1 larger one (which would have been less noisy), because it didn't fit in the 19" rack case. It would have been wise to call me and ask: "hey, you might want a tower instead, because I have to use 2 smaller fans which will be a bit more noisy". I'd have done it immediately. I even asked how much it would cost to put all the components in a tower case, but he never got back to me about that. My solution: I bought a couple of long cables and put the computer in a room next to my workspace. 

Second thing was this PC is locked, like literally. So if I want a bigger or extra drive for projects, I have to call this DAW builder, drive for 1 hour and pay a premium price to put in a larger drive. Not exactly what I want when I'm in the PC world. 

And then, Cubase started to freeze. It seems to be a ucrtbase.dll problem. It freezes completely at random moments and killed my creativity. DAW builder had no idea what it could be and suggested to check how many cores Windows was using and turn of some cores one by one. I Googled it and found no real solution, Cubase help centre suggested some stuff that didn't help. In the end I started using Reaper. It seems to be a waaaaay lighter program which uses the power of my computer waaay more efficient than Cubase ever did. So bye bye Cubase. Strange thing is, a friend of mine has a completely different PC but the same issue. The only similarity was it was build by the same DAW builder.

There was also a Kontakt "problem". Non Kontakt Player libraries took ages to load. Turned out to be that Windows Defender was turned on on all sample drives. Something a DAW builder should disable I gues... 

Another "issue" was my girlfriend coincidentally pulled the power plug out of my computer while it was on. After being mad I started to try and boot my computer, which failed so many times I started to get nervous. In the end it worked... I can imagine it's not really nice to lose power completely while turned on, but isn't there a safety feature in the power supply? Against power loss?

While midst in a project I decided to turn off Windows Updates. An update was waiting to be installed and I didn't want anything to break after an update so I decided to turn it off. I did this in the Group Policy > https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10 But it turned out to be a bad mistake. After rebooting I got a boot failure. I had to load some "optimized bios settings" and after that my computer booted like normal. I wasn't able to find the bios settings my DAW builder made, so it was lost somehow. It turned out to be my DAW builder approved safety updates, but disabled other major Windows updates. I guess the combination of events made my computer do this. Every now and then I still get this boot failure. So I guess I'm stuck with the DAW builder to find a solution. 

Anyway, in almost one year time I had too many issues to feel comfortable with this machine. Next PC won't be build by this DAW builder, and I might even consider going back to $Apple again. But the upcoming 5-10 years will be with this machine, so hopefully everything will run smooth.


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## AudioLoco (Dec 17, 2020)

For anyone in the UK...
What builders would you recommend?
Thanks!


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## Bemused (Dec 17, 2020)

AudioLoco said:


> For anyone in the UK...
> What builders would you recommend?
> Thanks!


I have a system built by SCAN that is 10 years old and still working away without issue. But I'll be upgrading components soon. And have asked them to quote me. It was little things like set up, cable management, overall quality of build. That I found assuring enough for me to go back to them. And they have a record of audio PC building.
https://www.scan.co.uk/


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## AlasdairEaston (Dec 17, 2020)

AudioLoco said:


> For anyone in the UK...
> What builders would you recommend?
> Thanks!


I've had a great experience with Scan pro audio, and I chose them after seeing good feedback online. I also became aware that a regular, very informed, helpful and nerdy (in a good way!) guy on the Sound in Sound forums was their main man.

Cheers,
Alasdair.


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## AlasdairEaston (Dec 17, 2020)

Bemused said:


> I have a system built by SCAN that is 10 years old and still working away without issue. But I'll be upgrading components soon. And have asked them to quote me. It was little things like set up, cable management, overall quality of build. That I found assuring enough for me to go back to them. And they have a record of audio PC building.
> https://www.scan.co.uk/


Aha, Bemused, you can type faster than me! 😃 Happy you've had the same experience as I have.


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## AudioLoco (Dec 17, 2020)

Thanks, Scan looks serious (although not 100% specialized like Carillon for example) I am checking them out.


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## Publius (Dec 24, 2020)

I have been building my own computers for neigh on 30 years now. My oldest son knows how to do it, and the other day, I helped my younger son build one of his own. A pc build takes me about 5 hours. There is taking the parts out of the old one for things I re-use, putting into the new one, and a couple of hours getting the C drive copied over. Considering the value of my time in my day job as a system administrator, I might be money ahead to hire this out, but this is an enjoyable ritual over the years, and I wish I had the excuse to do it more often. So.... I think home building is a surprisingly personal decision. I spend a lot of time getting the cabling just how I like it in terms of air flow and vibration resistance--probably ups my time.

I like to pay extra for really nice power supplies and other parts, so an off the shelf retail system would never do for me.

To have a pro do it, it may be better to think of it in terms not so much of simply paying someone to assemble it so much as ongoing support if things go wrong. I can imagine if one does music things for a living, down time is pretty expensive, and does a music pro want to take the time to learn the technology in addition to their work duties? Very much depends in the individual.

I think the difficulty of building a pc is the same over the years, its the same parts, they are just 1,000 times more powerful than 30 years ago. One nice thing is pcpartpicker which ensures the parts are compatible. Before we had that, I would normally have the guy at the computer store tell me which parts were compatible--cpu, mobo, ram, and power supply. They also know which things get returned more often, and sometimes are super gaming nerds who really know the pc internals. In the past maybe 20 years used Microcenter, a usa based chain. They are competitive to internet for cpu mobo and ram, making up the difference with expensive cables and other peripherals. The beauty of them is I can return without penalty if my build does not work for some reason. 

There was another store in town that would actually put together the mobo, cpu, ram and fan and post the system right before your eyes. But they are out of business for maybe 20 years now. Microcenter is the last man standing in terms of a good computer store, but they do a good job of it, so no complaints.

If you want to do an AMD based build, Pictus is extremely helpful in terms of opining on a proposed build.

And to the original poster, when a previously working system starts failing in a non-software sort of way, I look to the power supply--some sort of heating up issue. If one has blown the dust from the cpu heat sink, my thought is the power supply is the device most likely to flake in and out. I blow the dust out of those as well. I have also seen mobos fail, but those are typically a total failure, not intermittent--never seen a cpu or ram to fail. Just my personal experience, I don't have knowledge of larger trends.


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