# Dvorak serenade - KH new strings to give detail?



## Rob (Jan 29, 2014)

Here's my first contribution on the matter of the new Hunter string library... I have several things to say about it. 
1) it's really a challenge to start with anechoic non vibrato samples and try to inject life in them only through Kontakt scripting, and I respect Kirk Hunter for taking the risk. This is a path the guys at Samplemodeling have walked since the beginning and they got some excellent results from it, so maybe it's a matter of refining the techniques involved. 
2) It's a new and rather complex instrument, so it's maybe too soon to be able to give a honest judgement, let's learn first to use it and we'll talk more later. 
3) going the modeling way requires more ability and awareness on the user's part to get results. The bonus is being able to sculpt the phrases as you like
4) the user has to be aware of the features of the library and its inconsistencies... here as an example, the cello samples are mono, so they need to be treated differently (probably need early reflections)
5) at least they can be a valuable tool in giving detail to a strings piece, as I'm trying to show in this Dvorak's Serenade... it's all KH strings, from his concert strings II, but each section is doubled by Spotlight stgs...

www.robertosoggetti.com/KHStrings-Dvorak.mp3

louder solos:

http://www.robertosoggetti.com/CSII+SpS-Dvorak_serenade.mp3 (www.robertosoggetti.com/CSII+SpS-Dvorak_serenade.mp3)

more later, when I have better understood the library...


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## TGV (Jan 29, 2014)

Nice sound and interpretation, but the note transitions (dare I say legato) are too noticeable. It's almost as if there's an attack overlaid, but only in the lower violin range, it seems.

Here's a video with a similar seating (4,4,4,3,1) in a relatively dry environment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKGAOgUo_0I

I'd say that, apart from those transitions, your version compares pretty well.


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## Rob (Jan 29, 2014)

thanks TGV, I must say that I have just read the score, I've never heard the piece before  ... and very boldly I'd say I like my version better than that one :oops: 
Point taken on the transitions, I'll see what can be done...


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## TGV (Jan 29, 2014)

I like the slower tempo too. You could make the celli a bit more prominent, or a bit more "singing", when they echo the theme, though.


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## Rob (Jan 29, 2014)

TGV @ 29th January 2014 said:


> I like the slower tempo too. You could make the celli a bit more prominent, or a bit more "singing", when they echo the theme, though.



Agree, not at the beginning, in the second half...


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## José Herring (Jan 29, 2014)

Actually these strings don't sound as horrible as I imagined they would. Some of it sounds pretty damn sweet. Of course, a lot has to do with Rob who could make anything sound pretty convining. But, it has me looking closer at KH.

The LFO thing is a problem when each string is exposed. As probably the connection. But once they're all going I found the experience pleasing.


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## Rob (Jan 30, 2014)

josejherring @ 30th January 2014 said:


> Actually these strings don't sound as horrible as I imagined they would. Some of it sounds pretty damn sweet. Of course, a lot has to do with Rob who could make anything sound pretty convining. But, it has me looking closer at KH.
> 
> The LFO thing is a problem when each string is exposed. As probably the connection. But once they're all going I found the experience pleasing.



 they're not bad, and there's currently no other solo strings library based on this concept... it's not very different than the Garritan Stradivari...


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## ProtectedRights (Jan 30, 2014)

The tone is indeed not bad here. No boxiness that jumps into the face. The violins have the best sound I think. The lower octaves (celli, bass) hide a little behind the violins so their sound is not too audible.

Also the legato is not really convincing. 

But, this sounds better than any SSS demo on the KH website.


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## germancomponist (Jan 30, 2014)

Agreed, it sounds not bad! Well done, Rob!

I remember when I started with the Garritan Stradivari, took me a long time to get nice results with this new technique.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 30, 2014)

As usual, Rob shows how a given library can be used in a way that yields a musical result. Just gorgeous and I hope when it is done, you give it to Kirk for his website as it will greatly increase his sales. One terrific demo like this counteracts 50 negative opinions out in the larger world of sample buyers.

I would also suggest to him (and I will) that if you are willing, he hire you to do a walkthrough video on working with the library. I sure want to see it personally.


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## re-peat (Jan 30, 2014)

ProtectedRights @ Thu Jan 30 said:


> But, this sounds better than any SSS demo on the KH website.


Clearly, but these aren't the Spotlight Strings, are they? If I read Rob's opening post well, these are mainly the Concert Strings II, with the Spotlights doubling each section, no?

Not sure if I would go so far as to call the sound 'gorgeous', but I certainly agree with Jay on this point: it's a very musical result.

_


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## Hannes_F (Jan 30, 2014)

Good work Rob, you have more skill to tame those mono stems than me!

One thing that comes to mind:
You mainly used the single instruments (4 solo violins, 4 violas, 4 celli, 2 basses) and mixed them into the Concert Strings, right? I mainly used the ripieno strings because I thought that would be a similar thing - solo strings mixed into 'normal' samples. However maybe that is not true.


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## Rob (Jan 31, 2014)

ProtectedRights @ 30th January 2014 said:


> The tone is indeed not bad here. No boxiness that jumps into the face. The violins have the best sound I think. The lower octaves (celli, bass) hide a little behind the violins so their sound is not too audible.
> 
> Also the legato is not really convincing.
> 
> But, this sounds better than any SSS demo on the KH website.



thanks for the feedback ProtectedRights, I have done a mix with slightly louder solos, if you want to listen:

http://www.robertosoggetti.com/CSII+SpS-Dvorak_serenade.mp3 (www.robertosoggetti.com/CSII+SpS-Dvorak_serenade.mp3)


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## Rob (Jan 31, 2014)

germancomponist @ 30th January 2014 said:


> Agreed, it sounds not bad! Well done, Rob!
> 
> I remember when I started with the Garritan Stradivari, took me a long time to get nice results with this new technique.



true, that's what I'm saying... this kind of instrument needs some practice... thank you Gunther


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## Rob (Jan 31, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ 30th January 2014 said:


> As usual, Rob shows how a given library can be used in a way that yields a musical result. Just gorgeous and I hope when it is done, you give it to Kirk for his website as it will greatly increase his sales. One terrific demo like this counteracts 50 negative opinions out in the larger world of sample buyers.
> 
> I would also suggest to him (and I will) that if you are willing, he hire you to do a walkthrough video on working with the library. I sure want to see it personally.



thank you Jay... I already told Kirk that he can use the demo... as for the walkthrough, I don't think I'll do it, technically I don't know how, and above all it's kind of a hassle for me


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## Rob (Jan 31, 2014)

re-peat @ 30th January 2014 said:


> ProtectedRights @ Thu Jan 30 said:
> 
> 
> > But, this sounds better than any SSS demo on the KH website.
> ...



that's correct, Piet. I'm posting a version with the solos mixed louder... more rawness, more fun


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 31, 2014)

Rob @ Fri Jan 31 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ 30th January 2014 said:
> 
> 
> > As usual, Rob shows how a given library can be used in a way that yields a musical result. Just gorgeous and I hope when it is done, you give it to Kirk for his website as it will greatly increase his sales. One terrific demo like this counteracts 50 negative opinions out in the larger world of sample buyers.
> ...



Well, maybe I can hire you to show me over Skype


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## Rob (Jan 31, 2014)

Hannes_F @ 30th January 2014 said:


> Good work Rob, you have more skill to tame those mono stems than me!
> 
> One thing that comes to mind:
> You mainly used the single instruments (4 solo violins, 4 violas, 4 celli, 2 basses) and mixed them into the Concert Strings, right? I mainly used the ripieno strings because I thought that would be a similar thing - solo strings mixed into 'normal' samples. However maybe that is not true.



thanks Hannes, yes you're right. Personally I don't think that the ensembles can be treated exactly like the solos, and moreover, since I have the full library, I was able to use the smaller sections for this piece.


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## Rob (Jan 31, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ 31st January 2014 said:


> Rob @ Fri Jan 31 said:
> 
> 
> > EastWest Lurker @ 30th January 2014 said:
> ...



no way mate, I'm not giving an old wolf like you my secret tricks :D


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## EastWest Lurker (Jan 31, 2014)

Rob @ Fri Jan 31 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ 31st January 2014 said:
> 
> 
> > Rob @ Fri Jan 31 said:
> ...



Phooey!


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## emid (Jan 31, 2014)

Certainly very musical and not tiring. Great job indeed!


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## brunodegazio (Feb 9, 2014)

I thought I'd try my hand at this Dvorak piece too. 
I did the whole movement because the later sections present some challenges for other string textures besides the legato of the opening.

The basic string sound is Berlin Strings, but I used Embertone Friedlander & Blakus (in ensemble mode) for the divisi parts, and added a solo doubling using the Stradivari Violin and Gofriller Cello (formerly Garritan.)

The stereo mix might be a little off-balance since this was an automatic fold-down (via Quicktime) from a surround mix. 

https://soundcloud.com/bruno-degazio/se ... rings-in-e


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## Goran (Feb 10, 2014)

Hi Rob,

well done, I don't know that library at all and must confess I was a bit biased due to the sometimes very contradictory reputation it has, but you have achieved (as someone here said already) a very musical result.

If you like, you can listen to a pure VSL version of this movement I did some two/three years ago with a combination of Solo Strings and Orchestra Strings (second example from below):

https://viennatraining.com/en/leiter

I "misused" the MIR PRO's Steinhofkirche venue for spatial positioning 8)

P.S. You chose a very slow tempo, was there a particular reason for that choice? (I'm the last one to principally oppose unorthodox performances, asking out of curiosity).


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