# Speaker Emulation Plugins



## tenyuhuang (Apr 15, 2016)

Hi guys, I'm a newbie and I'm currently making mixes using a pair of headphone, due to fact that I may not possibly arm my room with proper acoustic furbishing. But of course I was recommended by colleagues and my boss that studio monitors are more reliable when it comes to mixing.

So I came across this kind of plugins - as the title said - which were advertised as "simulates the ideal acoustics of a high-end mix room – inside your headphones*[1]*". In this case, I'm very curious if these plugins can really do the magic.

Frankly, as a low-end blockpainter*[2]* I haven't experienced mixing with speakers myself, so I can't possibly tell if these plugs are doing the right thing; nor can I understand scientific (or mathematical) terms in their advertisement, let alone trust them...

As for such bewilderment, I'd really like to ask your opinion about it.
Do these products really work like a dream?
Can I really stop saving up for a pair of BM5A, and higher rent for a house I can furbish the hell out of it?
And do I really need to do mixing on speakers to be awesome*[3]* at it ?

Thanks a ton in advance! 

[1]Yes, FYI: that's Waves NX. Google pushed a damnton of Waves ads onto my face. 
[2]I'm not at all satisfied with my works so I don't call myself a musician or producer. That's a synonym for where I'm currently at. 
[3]...Which I believe might be true, but not before I nail it with a pair of headhangers; And to clarify: It's an arguably unaccomplishable dream for me while I'm waaaaaaaaaaay far from awesome.


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## muk (Apr 15, 2016)

You probably know the answers already:

[1] no

[2] no

[3] you need a whole lot more than that. But if you are, you don't.

Frankly, in my opinion, such plugins won't help you in the least at getting better mixes. You are far better off with getting the best headphones you can afford, and then learn them really well.
One possible way to do that is to record the voice of somebody you know well (but not your own voice), then listen to the recording through your headphones. Our brain is very accustomed to recognizing voices, and as you know the person well you know exactly how her/his voice should sound. You'll hear where and how your headphones are coloring the sound - of course only if the mic you used for the recording is fairly neutral - and can factor that in when mixing on them.
Sorry, I digressed. Anyway, speaker emulation plugins can be fun to use. But are they a serious mixing tool? I doubt that. If you are a beginner on a tight budget there are more important things to spend money on. Good headphones, for example.


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## tenyuhuang (Apr 15, 2016)

muk said:


> You probably know the answers already:
> 
> [1] no
> 
> ...



Good to know that thing's not far from expectation, seems like every penny goes somewhere and they don't save themselves up. Maybe it's yet for me to worry about equipments before I get better at shaping mixes.

- Surely, that being said, I'll just ignore those plugins instead.

And thanks for the tips! Didn't realized that we can do a manual A-B between real sound field and headphones. Will definitely try that out!

BTW I currently use MDR-CD900ST at daily work. While digging other subforums for suggestions, any upgrade roadmap would be grateful


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## wst3 (Apr 15, 2016)

I would not want to go through the pain and suffering of trying to mix on headphones unless I was mixing FOR headphones... but I am lazy, and learning any monitoring environment takes time and effort. I think loudspeakers are easier to learn, but that's me.

I agree that any plugin that promises to make your headphones sound like loudspeakers in a room - let alone top tier loudspeakers in a top tier room - is lying. We do not yet understand exactly how human hearing works, and every pair of ears is different anyway. This is even more outrageous than the software that promises to correct room problems.

Don't get me wrong - we probably aren't too far from software that can correct the majority of room problems, and we are only a little bit further from software that can make mixing in headphones a practical reality. But we aren't there yet.

If I were in your shoes...

I'd keep mixing on headphones until I can afford decent loudspeakers, and in the interim I'd spend a LOT of time listening to my favorite recordings (to train my ears), and I'd spend some time studying basic room preparation and treatment so that when you get the loudspeakers you can get the most from them.

The really bad news??? Yes, you will have to re-train your ears to work with the loudspeakers! Fortunately there are a lot worse things than listening to your favorite music!!!

Good luck!


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## chibear (Apr 15, 2016)

In my situation I have no choice but to mix on headphones. Early on I bought the Focusrite VRM box and still use it occasionally just to see. I also still burn a CD and run around trying it on different systems. I did buy the Waves nx awhile ago when it was on sale for $49. I do like it. Better investment than the VRM box IMO, but no replacement for $1000s of monitors in a properly treated envionment.


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## gsilbers (Apr 15, 2016)

chibear said:


> In my situation I have no choice but to mix on headphones. Early on I bought the Focusrite VRM box and still use it occasionally just to see. I also still burn a CD and run around trying it on different systems. I did buy the Waves nx awhile ago when it was on sale for $49. I do like it. Better investment than the VRM box IMO, but no replacement for $1000s of monitors in a properly treated envionment.



interesting. I haven't checked out this stuff.

the VRM box seems to have different emulation of speakers while the waves nx doesn't.

what makes you like the waves nx more?


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## chibear (Apr 15, 2016)

At least to my ears, the VRM box seems to play with frequency response and little else wheras the Waves tries to emulate good studio monitors as well as their placement, utilizing your webcam to accomplish it. Initially I thought it was just a gimmick, but turning or moving my head does change perspective. 

I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but also on the VRM Box I have a tendency to gravitate toward the audiophile speaker emulations anyway.


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## gsilbers (Apr 15, 2016)

cool. so how does your mixes compare and translate once you listen on real speakers/car speakers/tv system/etc?


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## chibear (Apr 15, 2016)

Notes I made on my last Cine submission, using Waves nx to mix:

In the car (VW set flat), the sound is pretty good. Trumpets & violins a bit bright. 

Older JVC 61" LCOS missing a few highs & could use more bottom.

Older single speaker JVC 24" needs compression.

Bose 901s wthout active equalizer an 12" sub added VG maybe a little more highs.

Local auditorium with all systems compression or softs are lost or louds too much

Friend's 12" Advents could use more top & bottom

Another friend's array of 4 Quad Electrostatics with 2/15" Tannoys for bottom: to die for.

$9.95 earbuds: sucked


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## tenyuhuang (Apr 16, 2016)

wst3 said:


> The really bad news??? Yes, you will have to re-train your ears to work with the loudspeakers! Fortunately there are a lot worse things than listening to your favorite music!!!
> 
> Good luck!



Good news is I like chanllenges. 



chibear said:


> In my situation I have no choice but to mix on headphones. Early on I bought the Focusrite VRM box and still use it occasionally just to see. I also still burn a CD and run around trying it on different systems. I did buy the Waves nx awhile ago when it was on sale for $49. I do like it. Better investment than the VRM box IMO, but no replacement for $1000s of monitors in a properly treated envionment.



I'll give it a free trial then. 14-days seems enough!


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## gsilbers (Apr 16, 2016)

chibear said:


> Notes I made on my last Cine submission, using Waves nx to mix:
> 
> In the car (VW set flat), the sound is pretty good. Trumpets & violins a bit bright.
> 
> ...



thanks for sharing. interesting stuff .


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## Mojo Bone (Apr 23, 2016)

I think a virtual room can have some value in that it gives you a perspective you didn't have before. I like the idea of having an ideal room, but without ideal headphones, are you gonna know whether it translates? If the software has modeled your particular pair of cans, I reckon it could work, but to my mind, here's the rub: audio engineers work with sounds in rooms. We work with mics and we work with speakers and we record performances on instruments and vocals using microphones. Now, you can have an entire career in EDM without ever mixing on speakers or miking a real instrument, but is that all you wanna know?


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## germancomponist (Apr 24, 2016)

You can do great mixes also by using a headphone. Buy the best you can get and learn it by listening to other music .... .


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