# MIR Pro 3D - Free 30 days demo!



## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

The long-awaited Vienna MIR Pro 3D has finally materialized, super-charged with Higher Order Ambisonics that will add the exquisite details of high resolution impulse responses to your productions!

But no only that!
Vienna MIR Pro 3D is the 3rd generation of our holistic mixing and reverberation engine, now *featuring 3D audio support*, *3D positioning* of instruments and virtual microphones, and *3D graphics*, whether you’re mixing for *stereo, binaural, surround or immersive audio formats*!

Upgrade paths available for both software and RoomPacks. If you buy MIR Pro 3D or an upgrade from MIR Pro you will get one RoomPack of your choice for free! In case you already own all 6 Roompacks you will get the upgrade of all Roompacks for free instead!

Demo Licenses available to check on your system - Remember, also works without a hardware key, thanks to the iLok Cloud!






VIENNA MIR PRO 3D - Vienna Symphonic Library


Vienna MIR Pro 3D is a holistic mixing and reverberation application, based on revolutionary Multi Impulse Response convolution. Through "spatial mixing" the software merges all parts of the creative process into a single intuitive workflow.




www.vsl.co.at






We also just upgraded Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 to support Immersive sound formats as well as up to 3rd Order Ambisonics, for free!
Additionally, all SYNCHRON-ized libraries are on sale: https://www.vsl.co.at/News/2022-07_MIR_Pro


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## widescreen (Jul 12, 2022)

Am I too soon if the shop does not show me the upgrade discounts? Or should they already be calculated correctly?

And another question: If I own Room Packs 1+2 and order Room Pack 6 as the free one with the 3D upgrade, are the 1+2 also upgraded to 3D then or are they still "2D" and need a separate upgrade?


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## Frederick (Jul 12, 2022)

That's excellent news! The website isn't yet recognizing the fact that I already have Mir Pro + the roompack bundle. 145 Euro to upgrade is fair and I have a 100 Euro voucher saved for this upgrade to boot, but I guess I'll have to wait a few minutes.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

widescreen said:


> Am I too soon if the shop toes not show me the upgrade discounts? Or should they already be calculated correctly?


We are looking into this right now! Stay tuned!


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## jamwerks (Jul 12, 2022)

Strange that the intro-offer is only 10%?!


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## Zanshin (Jul 12, 2022)

Frederick said:


> That's excellent news! The website isn't yet recognizing the fact that I already have Mir Pro + the roompack bundle. 145 Euro to upgrade is fair and I have a 100 Euro voucher saved for this upgrade to boot, but I guess I'll have to wait a few minutes.


Thank you for posting your upgrade fee, I own pro and all the rooms too, but mine is not showing atm.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 12, 2022)

Boom! Patience has been rewarded. If I decide to upgrade from MIR Pro 3D (24) to the full product, how do those types of upgrades work?


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 12, 2022)

This is exciting!


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## Casiquire (Jul 12, 2022)

This is awesome! I can't wait to learn all about this and try it out. I'm close to finishing my surround monitoring setup so this came at a good time

If I'm reading that correctly, existing MIR users need to pay to upgrade the software *and* each individual roompack we already bought? That's unfortunate. And are those upgrades not live yet? They don't seem to show up discounted in my account.


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## muk (Jul 12, 2022)

Congratulations to @Dietz, and the whole team!


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## Dietz (Jul 12, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> If I'm reading that correctly, existing MIR users need to pay to upgrade the software *and* each individual roompack we already bought


Yes, IRs are in 3rd order Ambisonics now.


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## Buz (Jul 12, 2022)

The MIR upgrade price is at the bottom of the page but we'll have to wait for roompack pricing. Really hope it isn't the difference between the list prices :/


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## Frederick (Jul 12, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> If I'm reading that correctly, existing MIR users need to pay to upgrade the software *and* each individual roompack we already bought? That's unfortunate. And are those upgrades not live yet? They don't seem to show up discounted in my account.


When I add Mir Pro 3D to my cart there's a pop-up that says I'm eligible for all the room pack upgrades for free. Then it shows all the room packs in my cart without discount. I think that's part of the bug that also causes the introduction price for Mir Pro 3D instead of the upgrade price. (I have Mir Pro + the roompack bundle)


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## Frederick (Jul 12, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Thank you for posting your upgrade fee, I own pro and all the rooms too, but mine is not showing atm.


I also cannot buy it for the right price right now, but the upgrade prices are shown at the bottom of the product page.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> This is awesome! I can't wait to learn all about this and try it out. I'm close to finishing my surround monitoring setup so this came at a good time
> 
> If I'm reading that correctly, existing MIR users need to pay to upgrade the software *and* each individual roompack we already bought? That's unfortunate. And are those upgrades not live yet? They don't seem to show up discounted in my account.


If you own all roompacks you will get the upgrades for these for free when upgrading MIR Pro to 3D.
We are working on the upgrade issues right now, I'll keep you updated!


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## Frederick (Jul 12, 2022)

The bug seems to have been fixed now!


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## widescreen (Jul 12, 2022)

I see now 25€ as upgrade for every existing Room Pack. Can they still be used as 2D version in MIR 3D or do they have to be upgraded to stay usable?


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

widescreen said:


> I see now 25€ as upgrade for every existing Room Pack. Can they still be used as 2D version in MIR 3D or do they have to be upgraded to stay usable?


You need to upgrade the venues that you want to keep using. It was not possible to make the old roompack format compatible with the new engine.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Upgrade discounts should be fixed now, just reload the page and make sure you are logged in!
If you still experience issues, please contact [email protected]


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## jamwerks (Jul 12, 2022)

Can't wait to hear what Synchron libraries sound like in MIR3D. Also wondering why Synchron-ized versions would be more desirable than Silent-Stage versions?


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 12, 2022)

In the Sonic Explorations audio demo, Stereo version, some of the instruments are positioned extremely wide out to the side. I noticed the same with the "SY-4U - Stereo Mix" here.

*) Edit: I meant the "SY-4U - Surround to Stereo Downmix". That's the one that has extreme panning.

How can that be?

It doesn't sound very natural to me.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> In the Sonic Explorations audio demo, Stereo version, some of the instruments are positioned extremely wide out to the side. I noticed the same with the "SY-4U - Stereo Mix" here.
> 
> *) Edit: I meant the "SY-4U - Surround to Stereo Downmix". That's the one that has extreme panning.
> 
> ...


Synchron Percussion was recorded in Synchron Stage Vienna and has no connection to MIR Pro 3D


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> Synchron Percussion was recorded in Synchron Stage Vienna and has no connection to MIR Pro 3D


I'm talking about the panning. The panning is extreme out to the side on some instruments, both in Synchron Percussion audio example and the MIR Pro 3D audio example.


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## muziksculp (Jul 12, 2022)

Wow ! This was a very pleasant, and exciting surprise this morning.

Thank You , and Congratulations to VSL for the release of MIR-PRO 3D 

I will surely upgrade to MIR-PRO 3D. from MIR-Pro.


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## DJiLAND (Jul 12, 2022)

The free room pack offer is something I never thought of..! Bring my credit card!


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 12, 2022)

Maybe this is a weird question, but will the old MIRPro and roompacks be useable for the foreseeable future? I don't really have the inclination to upgrade anytime soon.


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## daviddln (Jul 12, 2022)

jamwerks said:


> Can't wait to hear what Synchron libraries sound like in MIR3D.


What's the point of doing that?


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## Trash Panda (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> Upgrade discounts should be fixed now, just reload the page and make sure you are logged in!
> If you still experience issues, please contact [email protected]


Hi Ben. I’m still seeing full price for MIR 3D Pro 24 to MIR 3D Pro on the product page and in the cart.


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## heisenberg (Jul 12, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> This is awesome! I can't wait to learn all about this and try it out. I'm close to finishing my surround monitoring setup so this came at a good time
> 
> If I'm reading that correctly, existing MIR users need to pay to upgrade the software *and* each individual roompack we already bought? That's unfortunate. And are those upgrades not live yet? They don't seem to show up discounted in my account.


Congratulations! Your timing is excellent in getting your surround setup in place.


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## Zanshin (Jul 12, 2022)

heisenberg said:


> It appears the VSL site is still showing if you have all 6 Roompacks that you will be charged an upgrade fee, they are not showing as included in the MIR Pro 3D upgrade, as you stated in the initial offer in this thread.


Try to empty your cart and then add MIR 3D Pro and a message should pop up and they get added for free.


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## ptram (Jul 12, 2022)

Fantastic thing! And the upgrade price is incredibly fair! Thank you for all your work!

Paolo


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## heisenberg (Jul 12, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Try to empty your cart and try again. Add MIR 3D Pro and a message should pop up and they get added for free.


Indeed, that is the case!


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## JTB (Jul 12, 2022)

Question:
If I am a current MIR Pro and all 6 Room packs licence holder and I buy the upgrade to MIR 3D at e.g. Meershop, will the Room Packs become available to download in the Vienna Assistant along with MIR 3D?.


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## jamwerks (Jul 12, 2022)

daviddln said:


> What's the point of doing that?


If we want a binaural or imersive mixdown.

Isn't that what this is all about? I doubt MIR3D is intended for only "dry" samples (like Infinite brass, etc.) Silent Stage samples have a ton(!) on reverb, even though it's quite short (.7 sec ?).


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I'm talking about the panning. The panning is extreme out to the side on some instruments, both in Synchron Percussion audio example and the MIR Pro 3D audio example.


You can choose narrower sounding presets in the Synchron libraries, and also narrower sounding mic settings in MIR. It's a matter of taste and right now most people want a wide sound.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Hi Ben. I’m still seeing full price for MIR 3D Pro 24 to MIR 3D Pro on the product page and in the cart.


Please contact [email protected] 
Thanks!


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

JTB said:


> Question:
> If I am a current MIR Pro and all 6 Room packs licence holder and I buy the upgrade to MIR 3D at e.g. Meershop, will the Room Packs become available to download in the Vienna Assistant along with MIR 3D?.


Yes, if this is a qualified reseller.
I don't know most resellers, so I recommend contacting the support of the reseller; they can also tell you how long it will take until you get access to the license.
If you buy from our website you will get instant access to the products, but this is not true for all resellers.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes, if this is a qualified reseller.
> I don't know most resellers, so I recommend contacting the support of the reseller; they can also tell you how long it will take until you get access to the license.
> If you buy from our website you will get instant access to the products, but this is not true for all resellers.


I was about to ask the same thing. BestService is where I have vouchers waiting just for MirPro3D.

In order to do this, do we need to order both the MirPro3D upgrade and separately the room pack upgrade, or do we just order the MirPro3D upgrade, and then VSL will automatically update the room packs (presuming I already own all 6)?


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## Shredoverdrive (Jul 12, 2022)

@Ben Is the free roompack coming with the upgrade from Mir X Pro limited to introductory price? Another thing that is not clear to me : are the upgrade prices for the roompacks we already possess valid only during the introductory period? 
Thanks!


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

jamwerks said:


> If we want a binaural or imersive mixdown.
> 
> Isn't that what this is all about? I doubt MIR3D is intended for only "dry" samples (like Infinite brass, etc.) Silent Stage samples have a ton(!) on reverb, even though it's quite short (.7 sec ?).


Silent Stage recordings are dry and have almost no reverb besides carefully controlled early reflections.
If you use MIR within VEP it will also automatically disable the additional reverb of the SYNCHRON-ized libraries. If you are using it in yopur DAW you simply have to load the MIR mixer preset in the player to get the dry sound.

Rule of thumb: You can use MIR with any sound source that you would put through a convolution reverb.
Synchron Libraries are not such libraries, but if you own the Full Library you can create an immersive mix and put it through a binauralizer like an ATMOS rendere or DearVR Monitor - you don't need MIR for that.
But MIR is the perfect tool to get dry/dry'ish libraries/recordings into the Synchron Stage and mix them with Synchron Libraries!


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## artinro (Jul 12, 2022)

Forgive the question, as I’m not seeing this mentioned on the product page: Is this M1 native?


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Shredoverdrive said:


> @Ben Is the free roompack coming with the upgrade from Mir X Pro limited to introductory price?


No


Shredoverdrive said:


> are the upgrade prices for the roompacks we already possess valid only during the introductory period?


You will still get upgrade discounts, but they will be higher, if I'm not mistaken.


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## widescreen (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> No
> 
> You will still get upgrade discounts, but they will be higher, if I'm not mistaken.


Not unimportant to know how the list prices for the upgrade will be after introductory time. Following the upgrade pricing of the other products they should not be higher than 33€... 😉


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## Dietz (Jul 12, 2022)

jamwerks said:


> Can't wait to hear what Synchron libraries sound like in MIR3D. Also wondering why Synchron-ized versions would be more desirable than Silent-Stage versions?


Because MIR can't undo the room that has already been recorded with an input signal.


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## jamwerks (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> Silent Stage recordings are dry and have almost no reverb besides carefully controlled early reflections.


From the VSL website: (The Silent Stage) With an ambience of 0.8 seconds, it’s neither a “dry”, nor a “wet” environment, and it provides well-balanced reflections that the instruments’ sound can evolve and the musicians can hear themselves well. 

If you calculate the size of the room and the length of the reverb (.8 sec), iinm, that comes to about 15-20 successive reflections. To my ears, that's not very "dry", but that's what it is, and the sound is still great.


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## Nicola74 (Jul 12, 2022)

Sorry for the stupid question, but I can't find the VST3 Plugin file of Mir Pro 3D to open it in Cubase, while all the others VSL plugin are ok...


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 12, 2022)

Nicola74 said:


> Sorry for the stupid question, but I can't find the VST3 Plugin file of Mir Pro 3D to open it in Cubase, while all the others VSL plugin are ok...


Try, C drive/Program files/Common files/Vst3, that's where mine is, kind regards.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Nicola74 said:


> Sorry for the stupid question, but I can't find the VST3 Plugin file of Mir Pro 3D to open it in Cubase, while all the others VSL plugin are ok...


It should be located in the default VST3 folder.


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## Nicola74 (Jul 12, 2022)

RicardoSilva said:


> Try, C drive/Program files/Common files/Vst3, that's where mine is, kind regards.


Thanks to you and to Ben, but in this folder there is the "old" Mir Pro, but not the 3d version, also in this case Cubase would have found it...


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Nicola74 said:


> Thanks to you and to Ben, but in this folder there is the "old" Mir Pro, but not the 3d version, also in this case Cubase would have found it...


I see 
To allow old MIR Pro instances to automatically convert to MIR Pro 3D we have to use the same name for the plugin, so these are still just called "MIR Pro".


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 12, 2022)

Nicola74 said:


> Thanks to you and to Ben, but in this folder there is the "old" Mir Pro, but not the 3d version, also in this case Cubase would have found it...


Strange, since you mentioned it, I tried to launch it for the first time and Cubase Pro doesnt seem to see the new Mir Pro, I think we have a problem,you are right.


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> I see
> To allow old MIR Pro instances to automatically convert to MIR Pro 3D we have to use the same name for the plugin, so these are still just called "MIR Pro".


I see the vst Ben, our problem is that Cubase doesnt see it, its like we don't have it installed, I pointed Cubase to the file,it scans but doesnt recognise it,kind regards.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

RicardoSilva said:


> I see the vst Ben, our problem is that Cubase doesnt see it, its like we don't have it installed, I pointed Cubase to the file,it scans but doesnt recognise it,kind regards.


In Cubase it would also be listed as "MIR Pro".
- What Cubase version are you using?
- What OS are you running?


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> In Cubase it would also be listed as "MIR Pro".
> - What Cubase version are you using?
> - What OS are you running?


Hi Ben I am using Cubase Pro 12, windows 10, in Cubase I see under Steinber a plugin called Mir Pro 3D, but its not a stage ,just shows rms peak stuff for 1 instrument.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

RicardoSilva said:


> Hi Ben I am using Cubase Pro 12, windows 10, in Cubase I see under Steinber a plugin called Mir Pro 3D, but its not a stage ,just shows rms peak stuff for 1 instrument.


Great, then it's working as intended! It should open up the MIR app with the stage(s) in it. If it's not loading, try clikcing on the chain-icon (bottom right) in the MIR plugin.


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> Great, then it's working as intended! It should open up the MIR app with the stage(s) in it. If it's not loading, try clikcing on the chain-icon (bottom right) in the MIR plugin.


I tried every button there, but nothing happens when I click the link.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

RicardoSilva said:


> I tried every button there, but nothing happens when I click the link.


Hm, strange. Try opening the MIR app manually before inserting the plugin / opening the project.
If this also doesn't work please contact our support, so we can investigate this further: [email protected]


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> Hm, strange. Try opening the MIR app manually before inserting the plugin / opening the project.
> If this also doesn't work please contact our support, so we can investigate this further: [email protected]


When opening the app outside Cubase it loads the screen to choose a venue etc.. works perfectly, but inside Cubase it doesn't open this page.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

RicardoSilva said:


> When opening the app outside Cubase it loads the screen to choose a venue etc.. works perfectly, but inside Cubase it doesn't open this page.


Thanks for reporting, we'll look into this!


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> Hm, strange. Try opening the MIR app manually before inserting the plugin / opening the project.
> If this also doesn't work please contact our support, so we can investigate this further: [email protected]





Ben said:


> Thanks for reporting, we'll look into this!


Haha, I found a solution, after initialising it Outside Cubase once ,it works inside Cubase, its loading normally now.


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## Nicola74 (Jul 12, 2022)

Thanks again Ben, now it seems working, I am looking for the MirX option...


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Nicola74 said:


> Thanks again Ben, now it seems working, I am looking for the MirX option...


It was replaced by something even better: Open the role preset manager by clicking on the two masks in the top menu.






Instrument Settings | VSL - Software Manuals







www.vsl.info





We will release additional videos explaining the features in detail over the next days.


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## rrichard63 (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> Upgrade paths available for both software and RoomPacks. If you buy MIR Pro 3D or an upgrade from MIR Pro you will get one RoomPack of your choice for free! In case you already own all 6 Roompacks you will get the upgrade of all Roompacks for free instead!


I'm not sure how this offer applies to upgrades. For example, I own MIR Pro 24 and two room packs. Is my free room pack (a) one of the two room pack upgrades I need to purchase, or (b) a third room pack I don't already own?


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Also, MIRacle was completely reworked, now also supporting Immersive formats and a better sounding algorithm!


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

rrichard63 said:


> I'm not sure how this offer applies to upgrades. For example, I own MIR Pro 24 and two room packs. Is my free room pack (a) one of the two upgrades I need to purchase, or (b) a third room pack I don't already own?


A third one.


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> It was replaced by something even better: Open the role preset manager by clicking on the two masks in the top menu.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We definitely need a few tutorials on this, I cant work without Mir Pro, and I am very excited to start my new production, started last night, just in time. Thank you Ben for the help, super appreciated, kind regards.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

RicardoSilva said:


> We definitely need a few tutorials on this, I cant work without Mir Pro, and I am very excited to start my new production, started last night, just in time. Thank you Ben for the help, super appreciated, kind regards.


If you knwo how MIR Pro works, you should be able to use at least the same features within MIR Pro 3D.
We also made sure that the same settings as in MIR Pro get you an almost identical sound, so it's compatible to your old projects. It's not bit-identical, but you should not hear a difference.


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> If you knwo how MIR Pro works, you should be able to use at least the same features within MIR Pro 3D.
> We also made sure that the same settings as in MIR Pro get you an almost identical sound, so it's compatible to your old projects. It's not bit-identical, but you should not hear a difference.


It does look very familiar, just a question of getting used to the new Gui ,got a new toy to play tonight,couldnt be happier.


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## Hans-Peter (Jul 12, 2022)

Question: Does the binaural output configuration support individualized SOFA HRTFs?


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Hans-Peter said:


> Question: Does the binaural output configuration support individualized SOFA HRTFs?


There is no binaural output, but you can output an immersive format and downmix it to binaural in your DAW or directly output Ambionics (1st to 3rd order) and use a binaural decoder in your DAW.


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## Hans-Peter (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> There is no binaural output, but you can output an immersive format and downmix it to binaural in your DAW or directly output Ambionics (1st to 3rd order) and use a binaural decoder in your DAW.


Excellent! Thanks!


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## ptram (Jul 12, 2022)

RicardoSilva said:


> We definitely need a few tutorials on this, I cant work without Mir Pro


It seems to me that MIR is now always in MIRx mode.

Paolo


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

ptram said:


> It seems to me that MIR is now always in MIRx mode.
> 
> Paolo


If you don't like this behavior disable the preset as favorite by clicking on the star:






Btw: You can set up a preset with all the default settings you like and set it as favorite in this screen as well, so it gets automatically loaded when loading a venue!


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## method1 (Jul 12, 2022)

Any timeline for apple silicon versions?
Congrats on the release, looks fantastic!


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

method1 said:


> Congrats on the release, looks fantastic!


Thanks!



method1 said:


> Any timeline for apple silicon versions?


Sorry, no ETA, but we are on it!


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## Trash Panda (Jul 12, 2022)

Legacy MIR Room Pack (vol. 1-6): 10.5 GB
MIR 3D Room Pack 2: 10.6 GM
MIR 3D Room Pack (vol. 1-6): 64.5 GB


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Legacy MIR Room Pack (vol. 1-6): 10.5 GB
> MIR 3D Room Pack 2: 10.6 GM
> MIR 3D Room Pack (vol. 1-6): 64.5 GB


Btw, data in MIR Pro 3D Roompacks are compressed


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## Dietz (Jul 12, 2022)

Henrik B. Jensen said:


> I'm talking about the panning. The panning is extreme out to the side on some instruments, both in Synchron Percussion audio example and the MIR Pro 3D audio example.


Fair enough! The good thing is that you could change this at your liking and in all details with MIR. Personally, I have a strong aversion to narrow, mono-ish mixes, but nothing is written in stone there. You can even create your own microphone capsules and/or use a different Ambisonics decoder, if you like.


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## Dietz (Jul 12, 2022)

RicardoSilva said:


> We definitely need a few tutorials on this, I cant work without Mir Pro,


If you knew your way around the (now) legacy MIR Pro, you will also get along with MIR Pro 3D, too. BTW: The MIRx presets are all there, in the Preset Manager under "Factory Presets / Vienna Standards".


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Jul 12, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Fair enough! The good thing is that you could change this at your liking and in all details with MIR. Personally, I have a strong aversion to narrow, mono-ish mixes, but nothing is written in stone there. You can even create your own microphone capsules and/or use a different Ambisonics decoder, if you like.


Ben said above that people generally want and like wide mixes like that, so it makes sense to have some demos this way too


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## Casiquire (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> It was replaced by something even better: Open the role preset manager by clicking on the two masks in the top menu.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a feature I've been wishing you'd do for a while, fantastic! I'm loving the updates I'm learning about


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## daviddln (Jul 12, 2022)

MIR Pro 3D doesn't show up in VE Pro like before. When I press F6, nothing happens. Also, whan I insert a MIR Pro icon on a track, it opens MIR Pro 3D outside of VE Pro. Is it normal? Also, the auto-add MIR Pro option doesn't work. I installed the latest update of VE Pro 7. I probably did something wrong, but I don't know what. Could you help me please?


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

daviddln said:


> Also, whan I insert a MIR Pro icon on a track, it opens MIR Pro 3D outside of VE Pro. Is it normal?


Yes.


daviddln said:


> Also, the auto-add MIR Pro option doesn't work.


Nothing wrong on your end. We discovered this issue shortly before release and will look into it.


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## daviddln (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes.
> 
> Nothing wrong on your end. We discovered this issue shortly before release and will look into it.


Thank you Ben. So now, we can't work with MIR Pro directly in VE Pro like before? Is it correct? Damn, I thought I did something wrong and I uninstalled everything.


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## Ben (Jul 12, 2022)

daviddln said:


> Thank you Ben. So now, we can't work with MIR Pro directly in VE Pro like before? Is it correct? Damn, I thought I did something wrong and I uninstalled everything.


It's no longer hold hostage by VEP - this way you also can share the same venue over multiple VEP instances.
Thanks to the new tabbed venues on top you can still mix multiple venues - and this nwo also works when working directly in a DAW!


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## daviddln (Jul 12, 2022)

Ben said:


> It's no longer hold hostage by VEP - this way you also can share the same venue over multiple VEP instances.
> Thanks to the new tabbed venues on top you can still mix multiple venues - and this nwo also works when working directly in a DAW!


Ok, I see. Thanks again!


----------



## JTB (Jul 12, 2022)

Just a couple more questions:

If I download and install the MIR 3D demo, will it replace MIR Pro altogether?.
And, will the free Room Pack be installed along with it?.

Because in the VA there is only a MIR 3D download, no Room Pack.


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## Zanshin (Jul 12, 2022)

@Dietz 

When you have a moment could you talk about the "Venue - Dry Wet Handling" options, "Classical" is equivalent to old MIR?


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## Zanshin (Jul 12, 2022)

JTB said:


> If I download and install the MIR 3D demo, will it replace MIR Pro altogether?.


Yes, they are the same name.



JTB said:


> And, will the free Room Pack be installed along with it?.
> 
> Because in the VA there is only a MIR 3D download, no Room Pack.


I think you need to demo a new roompack too.


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## Zanshin (Jul 12, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Maybe this is a weird question, but will the old MIRPro and roompacks be useable for the foreseeable future? I don't really have the inclination to upgrade anytime soon.


You probably don't want to hear this, but you should demo it when you have time. If you were like meh because of who cares about surround... there's tons of quality of life improvements, and the 3d to stereo HOA capsules downmix in the mic presets is pretty sweet sounding


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## blaggins (Jul 12, 2022)

Just curious but are these discounts going to show up at Best Service? I've been holding on to my vouchers for a while now and this might be the time to finally get the historic woodwinds package.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 12, 2022)

haven't seen it show up there yet.


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## aaronventure (Jul 12, 2022)

@Dietz congrats on shipping this!


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## Petrucci (Jul 12, 2022)

Does anybody know if I upgrade my Mir24 to Mir24 3D will my Roompack Bundle convert to 3d one for free or not?)


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## DJiLAND (Jul 12, 2022)

Hello Dietz, I have one question. 
When putting real dry recording sources on the MIR Pro 3D rather than the library, do you still think stereo sources are better than mono?
On the MIR Pro, I found the stereo spot/closed source (not wide) a bit more lively and authentic sounding than most mono.
A super/hypercardioid mono source would definitely be a drier one, but...
I'm mostly working with immersive audio and I'd love to hear your thoughts on how it's going to be with the high-resolution HOA in MIR Pro 3D.


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## Dietz (Jul 12, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> @Dietz
> 
> When you have a moment could you talk about the "Venue - Dry Wet Handling" options, "Classical" is equivalent to old MIR?


Exactly.


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## Dietz (Jul 12, 2022)

DJiLAND said:


> When putting real dry recording sources on the MIR Pro 3D rather than the library, do you still think stereo sources are better than mono?


It's not _conditio sine qua non,_ as we ancient Romans put it , but MIR likes to have "stuff to chew on". Most of the time you will simply get richer spatial reproduction from a stereo source, even if you will sacrifice a bit of positioning details that way.


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## daviddln (Jul 13, 2022)

@Ben or @Dietz. In MIRacle, some knobs are no longer there, like Density or X-Feed. Is it normal?


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## Drjay (Jul 13, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> Does anybody know if I upgrade my Mir24 to Mir24 3D will my Roompack Bundle convert to 3d one for free or not?)


I have the same question. Since the description states: ‚If you have already registered all six previously available MIR RoomPacks, all six MIR 3D RoomPacks will be free of charge and added to your basket automatically.‘, I would think so. The sentence holds true regardless of the MIR version.
Would be nice if Ben or Dietz could confirm.
Additionally, since I also like to use my Bestservice vouchers, I‘d like to know if this upgrade path works for the resellers too.


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## Petrucci (Jul 13, 2022)

Drjay said:


> I have the same question. Since the description states: ‚If you have already registered all six previously available MIR RoomPacks, all six MIR 3D RoomPacks will be free of charge and added to your basket automatically.‘, I would think so. The sentence holds true regardless of the MIR version.
> Would be nice if Ben or Dietz could confirm.
> Additionally, since I also like to use my Bestservice vouchers, I‘d like to know if this upgrade path works for the resellers too.


Thanks! Yes, I'm in the same situation cause I have Bestservice VSL Vouchers..!))


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## Dietz (Jul 13, 2022)

Drjay said:


> I have the same question. Since the description states: ‚If you have already registered all six previously available MIR RoomPacks, all six MIR 3D RoomPacks will be free of charge and added to your basket automatically.‘, I would think so. The sentence holds true regardless of the MIR version.
> Would be nice if Ben or Dietz could confirm.
> Additionally, since I also like to use my Bestservice vouchers, I‘d like to know if this upgrade path works for the resellers too.


Sorry, I don't know the finer details of marketing, vouchers and upgrade paths. However, I'm sure that @Ben will jump in as soon as he finds the time to do so!


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## Dietz (Jul 13, 2022)

daviddln said:


> @Ben or @Dietz. In MIRacle, some knobs are no longer there, like Density or X-Feed. Is it normal?


Yes, it is. MIRacle 3D is actually a completely new thing, based on a different set of algorithms than its predecessor.


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## JyTy (Jul 13, 2022)

O wow, congrats on the release!!

I had all sorts of issues on M1 with the old version, so after a month of trying to incorporate it into my workflow I decided on a refund... 

But already tried the Mir pro 3D demo and this works flawlessly!! Loving it so far! Will keep on testing it for a few more days but looks like my wallet is not gonna like the outcome haha


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> Does anybody know if I upgrade my Mir24 to Mir24 3D will my Roompack Bundle convert to 3d one for free or not?)


Yes!


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## daviddln (Jul 13, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Yes, it is. MIRacle 3D is actually a completely new thing, based on a different set of algorithms than its predecessor.


Thank you Dietz!


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## ModalRealist (Jul 13, 2022)

Can’t wait to try demoing this. Haven’t gotten into the MIR Pro ecosystem previously. I had a brief dalliance with MirX Teldex but bounced off it: BUT, the funny part is I eventually realised that what I didn’t like were certain aspects of Teldex sound…! 😂 Took me a while to figure that out.

Anyway, very excited to get back into Mir!


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## doctoremmet (Jul 13, 2022)

Sorry - still on holiday (in Austria!) - hardly have had the opportunity to read the entire thread or do some proper research myself.

Can I do the MIR Pro 24 -> 3D upgrade via Best Service and still make myself eligible for the free new Roompack?


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## khollister (Jul 13, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> Thanks! Yes, I'm in the same situation cause I have Bestservice VSL Vouchers..!))





doctoremmet said:


> Sorry - still on holiday (in Austria!) - hardly have had the opportunity to read the entire thread or do some proper research myself.
> 
> Can I do the MIR Pro 24 -> 3D upgrade via Best Service and still make myself eligible for the free new Roompack?


There seems to be a disconnect with BestService at the moment. The online check with your VSL account email doesn't return anything for the MIR 3D products. I own all the room packs but there isn't currently a way to get the free upgrades if I upgrade MIR Pro. BestService is also listing the various upgrades as separate SKU's rather than relying on the realtime VSL account check to adjust the price.

Hopefully this gets resolved since I also have vouchers there.


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## Begfred (Jul 13, 2022)

Does Miracle comes with Mir 3D? Cause I can't authorize Miracle here, it keeps asking for Vienna Suite pro license wich I don't have...

EDIT: I'm able to load Miracle in VEP. But not into Logic


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## manuhz (Jul 13, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes!


Hi @Ben I've lready upgraded to MIR Pro 3D, owning 4 "old" + 1 new Roompacks. If I complete the bundle now, can I upgrade it for free?


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2022)

manuhz said:


> Hi @Ben I've lready upgraded to MIR Pro 3D, owning 4 "old" + 1 new Roompacks. If I complete the bundle now, can I upgrade it for free?


Upgrading to the Roompack Bundle will upgrade all roompacks as well.


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2022)

Begfred said:


> Does Miracle comes with Mir 3D? Cause I can't authorize Miracle here, it keeps asking for Vienna Suite pro license wich I don't have...
> 
> EDIT: I'm able to load Miracle in VEP. But not into Logic


A fix should be available soon.


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## Petrucci (Jul 13, 2022)

doctoremmet said:


> Sorry - still on holiday (in Austria!) - hardly have had the opportunity to read the entire thread or do some proper research myself.
> 
> Can I do the MIR Pro 24 -> 3D upgrade via Best Service and still make myself eligible for the free new Roompack?


You should be able to do this but at the moment Bestservice doesn't provide this, probably will be fixed in a few hours - days..!


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## Zanshin (Jul 13, 2022)

Petrucci said:


> You should be able to do this but at the moment Bestservice doesn't provide this, probably will be fixed in a few hours - days..!


Seems to be a manual process, from BS website:

"*Please note: *When placing your order, please indicate which RoomPack you would like to receive for free and we will register it together with your MIR Pro 3D license within 1-2 business days.

*For upgrades from Vienna MIR Pro to Vienna MIR Pro 3D the following applies:*

Please let us know with your order if you have already registered all previously available MIR RoomPacks. We will then register all six MIR 3D RoomPacks together with your upgrade license within 1-2 business days for free."


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## JTB (Jul 13, 2022)

Question:
If I install MIR Pro 3D (just to familiarize myself with it) and decide to go back to MIR Pro for the time being, will I be able to download and install MIR Pro and the RoomPacks?.


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## dunamisstudio (Jul 13, 2022)

Beat me to it, lol.

Yeah I heard from Best Service and the check for VSL discount doesn't work with the MIR 3D. Having some issue on their site. They added upgrade options on the page of the product. Then you're suppose to let them know on the order comment which free one you want. Also yes, you get a free roompack on MIR 3D 24 upgrade.


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## khollister (Jul 13, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Seems to be a manual process, from BS website:
> 
> "*Please note: *When placing your order, please indicate which RoomPack you would like to receive for free and we will register it together with your MIR Pro 3D license within 1-2 business days.
> 
> ...


Yeah just noticed that. The only other odd thing is the upgrade price in USD is slightly higher than the current exchange rate would indicate - BS is usually slightly less. I have sent an email to Sandy at BS to clarify


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2022)

JTB said:


> Question:
> If I install MIR Pro 3D (just to familiarize myself with it) and decide to go back to MIR Pro for the time being, will I be able to download and install MIR Pro and the RoomPacks?.


Yes, as usual you can roll back - but please be aware that projects re-saved with MIR Pro 3D will no longer open in the old MIR Pro.


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## tmch (Jul 13, 2022)

Is (another) free roompack available also if we decide to further upgrade from mir pro 3d (24) to the full version of mir pro 3d within the introductory offer period?


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2022)

tmch said:


> Is (another) free roompack available also if we decide to further upgrade from mir pro 3d (24) to the full version of mir pro 3d within the introductory offer period?


I don't think this will work


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2022)

Begfred said:


> Does Miracle comes with Mir 3D? Cause I can't authorize Miracle here, it keeps asking for Vienna Suite pro license wich I don't have...
> 
> EDIT: I'm able to load Miracle in VEP. But not into Logic


We have just released an update that should fix this issue.


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## JTB (Jul 13, 2022)

I just did an A/B between MIR Pro and MIR Pro 3D and AFAICT, this thing is next level. Or maybe even 2 levels above MIR Pro sound wise.
I just wish I could 'look' up at the stage from the 7th row. It's like I have a virtual stiff neck. It would also be awesome to stand where the conductor stands and look left and right without walking left and right.


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## Begfred (Jul 13, 2022)

Ben said:


> We have just released an update that should fix this issue.


🙏


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2022)

JTB said:


> I just did an A/B between MIR Pro and MIR Pro 3D and AFAICT, this thing is next level. Or maybe even 2 levels above MIR Pro sound wise.
> I just wish I could 'look' up at the stage from the 7th row. It's like I have a virtual stiff neck. It would also be awesome to stand where the conductor stands and look left and right without walking left and right.


You can do this by using a plugin that supports head tracking, a head tracking device and setting the mic output of MIR to Ambisonics  
This is quite a complex topic (Ambisonics, headtraking, getting everything working in your DAW...), so we will not be able to provide troubleshooting support, but it's possible to do!


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## Ben (Jul 13, 2022)

If you don't need this with head tracking and real time control: this can be done as well! Just totate the mic, it can now also be rotated in 3D. 

And while we are at it: you can set each player to auto orient itself to the main mic. Just enable the button in the instruments options.


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## Dietz (Jul 13, 2022)

JTB said:


> I just did an A/B between MIR Pro and MIR Pro 3D and AFAICT, this thing is next level. Or maybe even 2 levels above MIR Pro sound wise.


Thanks for sharing your very first impression, JTB! I've become so accustomed to the beauty of MIR 3D while working with a seemingly endless series of beta versions that I've almost forgotten the feeling of my very own first WOW!!-moment back then. 



JTB said:


> I just wish I could 'look' up at the stage from the 7th row. It's like I have a virtual stiff neck. It would also be awesome to stand where the conductor stands and look left and right without walking left and right.


You can either tilt the main microphone down or simply increase the Z-value (i.e. height) of your players on stage. Both moves will change the decoding geometry, but of course neither will magically create "IRs from 3 meters above the stage".

... but there are a few Venues where we in fact recorded IRs "from above", like the balconies in Hall One or the churches.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 13, 2022)

Drjay said:


> I have the same question. Since the description states: ‚If you have already registered all six previously available MIR RoomPacks, all six MIR 3D RoomPacks will be free of charge and added to your basket automatically.‘, I would think so. The sentence holds true regardless of the MIR version.
> Would be nice if Ben or Dietz could confirm.
> Additionally, since I also like to use my Bestservice vouchers, I‘d like to know if this upgrade path works for the resellers too.


So I have been trying to get an answer about this from both VSL and Best Service, I wasn't getting a clear answer, but I think I have it more or less sorted.. basically when Best Service places the order with VSL they do it using a web interface of some kind. BestService is normally pretty tricky in that they have automated this process in some way so that it can connect to VSL and find out your personal discounts on any given thing without manual intervention. Unfortunately that automated handling is not currently able to show anything related to the room pack upgrade bonus. But I am assured they can do it manually.

But VSL says that when you place an order on their website, the room packs will be automatically added to the basket, so maybe that is what happens from BestService end also when they vicariously place the order through the web interface that they use. I'm not sure, but someone from BestService confirmed to me that they can place the order and I will get all 6 room packs upgraded for free at that time, so now I'm just waiting for them to process my vouchers for it.


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## khollister (Jul 13, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> So I have been trying to get an answer about this from both VSL and Best Service, I wasn't getting a clear answer, but I think I have it more or less sorted.. basically when Best Service places the order with VSL they do it using a web interface of some kind. BestService is normally pretty tricky in that they have automated this process in some way so that it can connect to VSL and find out your personal discounts on any given thing without manual intervention. Unfortunately that automated handling is not currently able to show anything related to the room pack upgrade bonus. But I am assured they can do it manually.
> 
> But VSL says that when you place an order on their website, the room packs will be automatically added to the basket, so maybe that is what happens from BestService end also when they vicariously place the order through the web interface that they use. I'm not sure, but someone from BestService confirmed to me that they can place the order and I will get all 6 room packs upgraded for free at that time, so now I'm just waiting for them to process my vouchers for it.


It works - Tom from BS sorted it earlier today for me


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## Arbee (Jul 13, 2022)

Just adding my user experience to this thread. Purchased and the upgrade pricing and free soundpack upgrade worked as expected, no issues.

Sincere thanks VSL for taking this next step with dry libraries + MIR, I'm in and lovin' it! While "one orchestra per venue" products are perhaps more plug and play, the more I learn about this approach the more I get from it.


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## dunamisstudio (Jul 13, 2022)

Arbee said:


> Sincere thanks VSL for taking this next step with dry libraries + MIR


You do know their first major product line, VI series, is all dry right?


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## Arbee (Jul 13, 2022)

dunamisstudio said:


> You do know their first major product line, VI series, is all dry right?


Yep, I've been one of those voices pleading with VSL to stay in that lane rather than just blindly follow everyone else into the ambient abyss.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 14, 2022)

Any documentation or pointers about how to migrate your template from old MIR to MIR3D?

I use Reaper and because the old and new MIRPRO VST aren't named the same, it doesn't recognize the new MIR plug-in. When I replace the plugin, I lost my placement and config info for that track in MIR. If this cannot be fixed in some way, I need to redo my whole template of 130 tracks...

Loading my templates MIR engine project does not remedy this.


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## Dietz (Jul 14, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Any documentation or pointers about how to migrate your template from old MIR to MIR3D?
> 
> I use Reaper and because the old and new MIRPRO VST aren't named the same, it doesn't recognize the new MIR plug-in. When I replace the plugin, I lost my placement and config info for that track in MIR. If this cannot be fixed in some way, I need to redo my whole template of 130 tracks...
> 
> Loading my templates MIR engine project does not remedy this.


If installed properly MIR 3D is designed to open "old" sessions without any noticeable differences. They can't co-exist, though.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 14, 2022)

Dietz said:


> If installed properly MIR 3D is designed to open "old" sessions without any noticeable differences. They can't co-exist, though.


That may well be, but my DAW says no after removing old MIR and installing MIR3D. The MIR3D plugin is available in Reaper, but as they are not named the same within the DAW, it will not load the MIR3D plugin in my template:






And although the MIR plugin config should be preserved:






Once I load the MIR3D plugin, my tracks aren't placed where I left it with old MIR. Not only that, bu none of the settings are loaded. This isn't where I left Chamber Strings...






Would it help to contact support about this?


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## manuhz (Jul 14, 2022)

In this new version the workflow has been changed quite significantly:

MIR Pro is no longer integrated into VE Pro, it works now as a conventional VST plugin, what implies advantages and disadvantages.

And the handy MIRx instrument positioning doesn't seems to apply automatically anymore. Everytime I load a new instance I need to make de positioning manually... or go to the presets panel, search for a profile, choose it and drag the preset to the instance... it isn't really optimal imo! The characteristics of the choosen instrument seem to load fine, not the positioning.

Is this new behaviour a bug or a feature by design??

@Ben Can you confirm please? Thanks!


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## Ben (Jul 14, 2022)

manuhz said:


> And the handy MIRx instrument positioning doesn't seems to apply automatically anymore.


It should work automatically! Make sure you have loaded a venue preset in the Role Preset Manager, so it knows where to place your instruments.


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## manuhz (Jul 14, 2022)

No, it doesn't work Ben! Venue is loaded, right click on the instance to choose the instrument profile, as usual, but no positioning. It works only if I go the way I mentioned before, via the preset manager. I don't see anyway the option to activate MIRx positioning.

On the other hand, MIR Pro is no longer integrated into VE Pro. Can you confirm this please?


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## Zanshin (Jul 14, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> That may well be, but my DAW says no after removing old MIR and installing MIR3D. The MIR3D plugin is available in Reaper, but as they are not named the same within the DAW, it will not load the MIR3D plugin in my template:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wonder, is it because it's seeing a VST 2.4 vs a VST 3 before? Or Vice versa and not loading both plugins because they are the same name and then your project is not connecting the plugin on load?

Nothing to do with your issue but I noticed if you have VST 2 and VST 3 instances they do not connect to the same MIR, a 2nd MIR instantiates.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 14, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> I wonder, is it because it's seeing a VST 2.4 vs a VST 3 before? Or Vice versa and not loading both plugins because they are the same name and then your project is not connecting the plugin on load?
> 
> Nothing to do with your issue but I noticed if you have VST 2 and VST 3 instances they do not connect to the same MIR, a 2nd MIR instantiates.


The not loading thing on start-up is due to the naming scheme Reaper uses for these plugins. The old MIR Pro plugin is identified as "VST: Vienna MIR Pro (VSL) (8ch)" and the MIR Pro 3D one as "VST3: Vienna MIR Pro". That isn't that big a deal.

What is a big deal is that the configuration per track isn't saved. So when I replace the old (not loaded) plugin for the new one, all my MIR positioning and configuration for that track are gone. Even that didn't alarm me, until I found out that loading my saved MIR config through the "Load MIR Legacy Engine project" didn't restore anything either. The only thing it did was load the old view of the vanue, but none of the positioning, mixing, micing configurations were loaded.

If that isn't fixeable somehow, it means I need to redo my whole template and that is not acceptable. Getting it this far has cost me so much time, time I'm not willing to invest again tbh.

I've logged a case with support in the hope they can give me some tips or help me somehow.

This was not what I was expecting.


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## Zanshin (Jul 14, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> The not loading thing on start-up is due to the naming scheme Reaper uses for these plugins. The old MIR Pro plugin is identified as "VST: Vienna MIR Pro (VSL) (8ch)" and the MIR Pro 3D one as "VST3: Vienna MIR Pro". That isn't that big a deal.
> 
> What is a big deal is that the configuration per track isn't saved. So when I replace the old (not loaded) plugin for the new one, all my MIR positioning and configuration for that track are gone. Even that didn't alarm me, until I found out that loading my saved MIR config through the "Load MIR Legacy Engine project" didn't restore anything either. The only thing it did was load the old view of the vanue, but none of the positioning, mixing, micing configurations were loaded.
> 
> ...


Yikes, I am sorry man.

Do you have a VST 2 MIR 3D in Reaper? You should have both 2 and 3 versions now whereas old MIR was 2 only of course. I would also assume for projects to connect up correctly you'll need it to be able find the VST 2 version.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 14, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Yikes, I am sorry man.
> 
> Do you have a VST 2 MIR 3D in Reaper? You should have both 2 and 3 versions now whereas old MIR was 2 only of course. I would also assume for projects to connect up correctly you'll need it to be able find the VST 2 version.


As far as I can tell, there is no VST 2 version of the MIR PRO 3D plugin installed on my machine.


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## Zanshin (Jul 14, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> As far as I can tell, there is no VST 2 version of the MIR PRO 3D plugin installed on my machine.


Does Reaper automatically hide/disable VST 2 versions if it finds a 3? I know some DAWs do that. The VST 2 install location is set by the path you have in Vienna Assistant>Preferences.


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## Rasoul Morteza (Jul 14, 2022)

Exciting news... I need to give this a try soon! Especially the 3OA support.

@Ben Is there a demo/trial license available?


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 14, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Does Reaper automatically hide/disable VST 2 versions if it finds a 3? I know some DAWs do that. The VST 2 install location is set by the path you have in Vienna Assistant>Preferences.


HERO!

For some reason, the Vienna Assistent changed the VST2 location from my previous config to someplace where I wouldn't look, and neither did Reaper. Now, everything loads including the config of all my tracks!

Thanks so much man! This saved me from weeks of redoing everything!


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## Zanshin (Jul 14, 2022)

Rasoul Morteza said:


> Exciting news... I need to give this a try soon! Especially the 3OA support.
> 
> @Ben Is there a demo/trial license available?


Guess what, you 're in luck! The thread title says "Free 30 days demo!"


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## Zanshin (Jul 14, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> HERO!
> 
> For some reason, the Vienna Assistent changed the VST2 location from my previous config to someplace where I wouldn't look, and neither did Reaper. Now, everything loads including the config of all my tracks!
> 
> Thanks so much man! This saved me from weeks of redoing everything!


Awesome!!!


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## Dietz (Jul 14, 2022)

manuhz said:


> Venue is loaded


Venue Preset (from the new Preset Management / F7), not just the Venue. That's where all the settings previously known as "MIRx" are stored and organized now.


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## manuhz (Jul 14, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Venue Preset (from the new Preset Management / F7), not just the Venue. That's where all the settings previously known as "MIRx" are stored and organized now.


Hallo Dietz, that's only ok but i'ts not an improvement compared to before, imo rather the opposite. The Preset Manager is a great adittion for full setuping but requieres a lot more steps (please add an in-context search function!). Right-click assignment was the quickest way and the funtion is already built-in. Es ist eine Überlegung Wert?

Best


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## Rasoul Morteza (Jul 14, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Guess what, you 're in luck! The thread title says "Free 30 days demo!"


Haha! I totally missed that... thanks!


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## Ben (Jul 14, 2022)

manuhz said:


> No, it doesn't work Ben! Venue is loaded, right click on the instance to choose the instrument profile, as usual, but no positioning. It works only if I go the way I mentioned before, via the preset manager. I don't see anyway the option to activate MIRx positioning.


Make sure the Venue Preset is loaded, if not load it:








manuhz said:


> On the other hand, MIR Pro is no longer integrated into VE Pro. Can you confirm this please?


That's right. Still, MIRx should work, and auto add MIR was fixed in the latest update of VEP just now.


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## Ben (Jul 14, 2022)

Zanshin said:


> Nothing to do with your issue but I noticed if you have VST 2 and VST 3 instances they do not connect to the same MIR, a 2nd MIR instantiates.


Please use VST2 OR VST3 within a project. VST2 is still included for compatibility with older projects.
VST3 has some additional cool features (if your DAW supports it, for example Cubase, Nuendo): The instrument icon will automatically get named after the track, and the track color is also applied.


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## Ben (Jul 14, 2022)

Marcus Millfield said:


> The not loading thing on start-up is due to the naming scheme Reaper uses for these plugins. The old MIR Pro plugin is identified as "VST: Vienna MIR Pro (VSL) (8ch)" and the MIR Pro 3D one as "VST3: Vienna MIR Pro". That isn't that big a deal.
> 
> What is a big deal is that the configuration per track isn't saved. So when I replace the old (not loaded) plugin for the new one, all my MIR positioning and configuration for that track are gone. Even that didn't alarm me, until I found out that loading my saved MIR config through the "Load MIR Legacy Engine project" didn't restore anything either. The only thing it did was load the old view of the vanue, but none of the positioning, mixing, micing configurations were loaded.
> 
> ...


This should work of course. Please mail a project file with this issue to [email protected] so we can take a look at it.


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## Ben (Jul 14, 2022)

Rasoul Morteza said:


> Exciting news... I need to give this a try soon! Especially the 3OA support.
> 
> @Ben Is there a demo/trial license available?


Yes, you can get a free 30 days demo of MIR from the product page. Don't forget to also get demo licenses for the RoomPacks!


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## Ben (Jul 14, 2022)

manuhz said:


> Hallo Dietz, that's only ok but i'ts not an improvement compared to before, imo rather the opposite. The Preset Manager is a great adittion for full setuping but requieres a lot more steps (please add an in-context search function!). Right-click assignment was the quickest way and the funtion is already built-in. Es ist eine Überlegung Wert?
> 
> Best


Make sure this star is set for the venue preset if you want to load it automatically when loading a venue:


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## manuhz (Jul 14, 2022)

Ben said:


> Make sure the Venue Preset is loaded, if not load it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, as mentioned before: postioning works just fine using the preset manager, but not if you make the assignment via right-click. Please try it!


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## Ben (Jul 14, 2022)

manuhz said:


> Yes, as mentioned before: postioning works just fine using the preset manager, but not if you make the assignment via right-click. Please try it!


That's correct and also intentional.


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## Marcus Millfield (Jul 14, 2022)

Ben said:


> This should work of course. Please mail a project file with this issue to [email protected] so we can take a look at it.


Got it working with the help of @Zanshin


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## manuhz (Jul 14, 2022)

Ben said:


> That's correct and also intentional.


 No sense!!!


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## James pro (Jul 14, 2022)

HI, 
I work in stereo, and have no plans for multi-channel in the next few years. I work with MIR PRO every day, so I have a few key questions to ask, thank you for such a great product.

We understand that you have done a lot to match the old project to get almost the same sound (without affecting the sound of the old project), thank you engineers.

But there are also a few questions, and if they can, stereo workers want to know the exact answer. Because for sound, the description of the new product is only about 3D HOA.

1. Is the sound better for stereo work?
After all, MIR PRO is a 10-year-old technology. This great update is impossible not to make a more era-leading improvement to the sound, because it is a sound tool. Unless the technology of 10 years ago is still leading the times today.

2. If it is better, what aspects would it be? "Sampling techniques", "development techniques", "software engineering techniques"...or something that can be answered with exact data?

Or is there not much change (stereo only),
Because the technology was already good before, the sound boost this time around may be more of a perceptual one. After all, you have done a lot to match the old project.

3. Regarding the introductory price, will there be such a favorable upgrade discount in the future? Considering the existence of VSL vouchers, if we are not in a hurry to upgrade, can we wait for a more favorable upgrade when there is a voucher discount?

Thank you！Very happy to wake up to the mail about MIR PRO 3D.


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## Scalms (Jul 14, 2022)

Dumb question from me to @Ben 

Test driving the demo (great so far by the way). Quick question, I have Studio one. When I add the plugin, the MIR Pro 3D main page opens outside of Studio One. So when I toggle to the new window, Studio One won't keep playing audio when i click out of the software. So I can't move the instruments around the venue in real-time with sound, i need to then go back to Studio One to hear what happened. This must not be the right way, right? 

thanks!


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## JyTy (Jul 14, 2022)

Scalms said:


> Dumb question from me to @Ben
> 
> Test driving the demo (great so far by the way). Quick question, I have Studio one. When I add the plugin, the MIR Pro 3D main page opens outside of Studio One. So when I toggle to the new window, Studio One won't keep playing audio when i click out of the software. So I can't move the instruments around the venue in real-time with sound, i need to then go back to Studio One to hear what happened. This must not be the right way, right?
> 
> thanks!


There is an option (in audio/soundcard settings) to release audio drivers in the background in StudioOne - toggle it. Shud be fine afterwards.


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## Dietz (Jul 14, 2022)

Hi James,



James pro said:


> 2. If it is better, what aspects would it be? "Sampling techniques", "development techniques", "software engineering techniques"...or something that can be answered with exact data?
> 
> Or is there not much change (stereo only),
> Because the technology was already good before, the sound boost this time around may be more of a perceptual one. After all, you have done a lot to match the old project.


Higher Order Ambisonics is sometimes compared to "having more harmonics": 1st Order (i.e. legacy MIR) gives you "just" the basic spatial information - much like a sine wave carries only the basic musical information of pitch, volume and time. The more harmonics you perceive, the more you will be able to differentiate between - say - a flute and a violin. In case of Ambisonics the higher orders add more spatial enveloping, finer positional resolution and an increasing size of the so-called sweet spot for the listener.

The difference is spectacular in surround and 3D. In stereo the effect isn't like "black-to-white", but it _is_ noticeable, especially when working on larger arrangements with many sources. And keep in mind that even though you may not plan to work in anything other than stereo, there is a strong demand these days for _binaural_ stereo, which in turn is based on 3D input, most of the time.

... and even if you aren't interested in anything else than plain stereo, you will at least benefit from the new methods of decoding Ambisonics in general ("spherical" decoding opposed to simple capsule-based), and new creative options like the possibility to open several MIR Venues working side-by-side. 

_EDIT: In case you have been asking about scientific bases, here are some recent examples of the relevant publications of those clever people at IEM Graz who have applied the upscaling procedure from 1st to 3rd order: _
_
-> https://iem.kug.ac.at/en/publicatio...f233514f40a5768cb49926213c0987cec679d6d5fd79c

-> https://iem.kug.ac.at/en/publicatio...fb351bf359a46e1cbccee174e81c6c94d8a605d22ac81

-> https://iem.kug.ac.at/en/publicatio...57d745cfaf582cc314eb488ce4bc51e33da9fa683e4f1
_
_-> https://iem.kug.ac.at/en/publicatio...3fe0830bfa4c8aaac73b3d13d5566a93c8ba95f25df83

... and much more._


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## Dietz (Jul 15, 2022)

manuhz said:


> postioning works just fine using the preset manager, but not if you make the assignment via right-click. Please try it!


Like Ben wrote, this was done deliberately during development, but a comparable feature is high on _my_ list of future enhancements, too. Just keep in mind the the new role-based preset management is _so_ much more capable like legacy "MIRx Mode" that there are my aspects to take care for which didn't exist before.

Thanks for your patience!


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## jamwerks (Jul 15, 2022)

Seems like MIR Pro 3D would be the ultimate vehicale for Infinite Woodwoods. I've always toyed with the idea of having these woodwinds for passages that traditionally sampled winds can't really do. If it made them sound even better than with their own built-in IR's, I think I'd buy both of them!!


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## James pro (Jul 15, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Hi James,
> 
> 
> Higher Order Ambisonics is sometimes compared to "having more harmonics": 1st Order (i.e. legacy MIR) gives you "just" the basic spatial information - much like a sine wave carries only the basic musical information of pitch, volume and time. The more harmonics you perceive, the more you will be able to differentiate between - say - a flute and a violin. In case of Ambisonics the higher orders add more spatial enveloping, finer positional resolution and an increasing size of the so-called sweet spot for the listener.
> ...


Hi Dietz,

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know as a stereo worker,
let us know what it means to upgrade in terms of sound. Coupled with functional innovations, such product updates are very attractive to our legacy product customers.

My work often receives live recorded strings that don't sound great in the room, MIR PRO helped me a lot.

Thanks again, Thank you to your team.


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## Scalms (Jul 15, 2022)

JyTy said:


> There is an option (in audio/soundcard settings) to release audio drivers in the background in StudioOne - toggle it. Shud be fine afterwards.


ah yes, thank you!


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## Begfred (Jul 15, 2022)

I really love this major update, it’s sound great in stereo and I can’t wait to use it in a spatial audio project. 
But I guest in Logic we are limited to 1st order ambisonic (quad track + decoder) because theres no way to output a 9 channels track for 2nd order and there’s simply not enough channels per track for 3rd order. Is that right?


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## Dietz (Jul 15, 2022)

Begfred said:


> But I guest in Logic we are limited to 1st order ambisonic


No, no! Don't despair, MIR 3D takes care for that all by itself.  

You don't have to deal with Ambisonics at all if you don't want to (or your DAW does't support it). Quite contrary: The new option to output "raw" Ambisonics is not the preferred method to work with MIR 3D, because that way it can't sculpt the decoding process any more (... a mixture between science and black art.  ...).


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## Loïc D (Jul 15, 2022)

jamwerks said:


> Seems like MIR Pro 3D would be the ultimate vehicale for Infinite Woodwoods. I've always toyed with the idea of having these woodwinds for passages that traditionally sampled winds can't really do. If it made them sound even better than with their own built-in IR's, I think I'd buy both of them!!


I’ve spent a couple of hours yesterday on this but I still prefer built-in IRs.
But I’m just beginner on MIR (3D) and there’s much room for improvement.

Anyway, MIR 3D is too big an investment at my modest level. I may though buy MIR 24 (mostly for percs & harps that I always fail to place in a room).


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## synergy543 (Jul 15, 2022)

So if you're running VSL Libraries on two different computers with VE Pro, what would be the best options for utilizing MIR3D? Would this require two licenses? Or is there another clever way to set things up. 

I want to run these from Dorico, so I'm wondering if it's possible to host MIR3D within Dorico?


----------------------
[*EDIT Update*] - OK, here is a crazy idea (but does work). Suppose I run each Vienna Instrument (or Synchron Instrument) in Unify, and then run Unify inside of VE Pro, and then link this to another copy of Unify (so, Unify inside of Unify) running inside of VE Pro on the Main Computer which also hosts MIR3D and this then goes to Dorico. So:

VSL Instrument > Unify 1 (running inside of VE Pro on slave computer 2) > Unify 2 (running inside VE Pro in Main computer) running inside of VE Pro on main computer with MIR3D > Dorico.

It sounds confusing, but its really not. And I've already tested everything except MIR3D which of course will work. So nutty as this sounds, it works.

*The question is*: Is there a better (simpler) method? (Maybe like running MIR3D inside Dorico? Is it possible?
Yes, buy a 128G Mac Studio. Other ideas?


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## ModalRealist (Jul 15, 2022)

@Ben is the 25% edu discount available on Mir Pro 3D (24), and if not, will it be available in future?


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## Ben (Jul 15, 2022)

ModalRealist said:


> @Ben is the 25% edu discount available on Mir Pro 3D (24), and if not, will it be available in future?


I think it will be available as soon as the intro discount ends.


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## Zanshin (Jul 15, 2022)

Ben said:


> I think it will be available as soon as the intro discount ends.


And then, maybe EDU month in Sept? I think it was 40% off last year. Might be worth waiting the little bit longer.


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## zigzag (Jul 16, 2022)

@Ben Is get one free MIR 3D RoomPack when you order MIR 3D just part of the intro offer or will it continue when the intro offer ends?


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## Ben (Jul 16, 2022)

During beta-testing @FireGS and I were going through the new Role Preset Management of MIR Pro 3D.
Sam suggested to record the call so it can be used in a video. So, here is the Role Preset guide call (cutted and condensed):


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 16, 2022)

Ben said:


> During beta-testing @FireGS and I were going through the new Role Preset Management of MIR Pro 3D.
> Sam suggested to record the call so it can be used in a video. So, here is the Role Preset guide call (cutted and condensed):



We need more videos like this, its intuitive and easy to follow ,well done Ben, tremendous help, Vsl need to learn from this and hopefully create more video tutorials like this, really well made, thank you, kind regards.


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## Ben (Jul 16, 2022)

RicardoSilva said:


> We need more videos like this, its intuitive and easy to follow ,well done Ben, tremendous help, Vsl need to learn from this and hopefully create more video tutorials like this, really well made, thank you, kind regards.


Thanks for the feedback, great to hear that!


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 16, 2022)

Ben said:


> Thanks for the feedback, great to hear that!


You are most welcome,it was a pleasure,kind regards.


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## Dr.Quest (Jul 16, 2022)

What is the difference between MIR Pro 3D and MIR Pro 3D 24? I don't see it any where.


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## gcorcella (Jul 16, 2022)

Dr.Quest said:


> What is the difference between MIR Pro 3D and MIR Pro 3D 24? I don't see it any where.


MIR Pro 24 allows you to have only 24 instrument icons I suppose


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## DaddyO (Jul 19, 2022)

Got MIR Pro 3D yesterday. Just trying to wrap my head around what's different, and one thing that faced me right away was dealing with it as a totally separate window that is not available via tab in VE Pro. Is there any way for me to show it as a tab along with "Instrument" and "Mixer," like the legacy MIR Pro? If not, I'll adjust, but thought I'd ask.


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## Zanshin (Jul 19, 2022)

DaddyO said:


> Got MIR Pro 3D yesterday. Just trying to wrap my head around what's different, and one thing that faced me right away was dealing with it as a totally separate window that is not available via tab in VE Pro. Is there any way for me to show it as a tab along with "Instrument" and "Mixer," like the legacy MIR Pro? If not, I'll adjust, but thought I'd ask.




This might help?


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## DaddyO (Jul 19, 2022)

That answers the question, thanks Zanshin. I can see the logic of it.


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## Dr.Quest (Jul 19, 2022)

I'm trying out the Trial and it's pretty cool so far. One thing in the video was that it looked like you could bypass the whole stage and back again to get a clear idea of the sound. In the video the stage went from black and white (dry) to color (wet). Was that just a video effect? I can't seem to get that same result. I can solo dry but it doesn't seem the same. What am I missing?


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## Dietz (Jul 19, 2022)

Dr.Quest said:


> Was that just a video effect?


Visually - yes. Sorry for any confusion that might have caused.

But there are dedicated buttons for global Dry / Wet Solo at the bottom of the Output Panel on the right.


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## Dr.Quest (Jul 19, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Visually - yes. Sorry for any confusion that might have caused.
> 
> But there are dedicated buttons for global Dry / Wet Solo at the bottom of the Output Panel on the right.


Got it, thanks! I figured as much after I watched it again. This is my first time for MIR and it has a lot going for it. Still getting my head wrapped around it. It is cool!


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## fakemaxwell (Jul 19, 2022)

Did the original MIR ever auto update the names inside MIR to match the DAW track name? It's such a time saver now that it's almost worth the upgrade just for that 😂😂😂


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## Ben (Jul 19, 2022)

fakemaxwell said:


> Did the original MIR ever auto update the names inside MIR to match the DAW track name? It's such a time saver now that it's almost worth the upgrade just for that 😂😂😂


This is one of the new features 
Keep in mind that the VST2 plugin format does not support this.


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## synergy543 (Jul 19, 2022)

What is the best way to use MIR Pro3D with VE Pro and multiple computers? (say strings on one computer and brass on another)

Is it possible to route individual outputs for each instrument from one instance of VE Pro (on a second computer) to the main VE Pro hosting MIR? I know I can route multiple VE Pro output to Digital Performer but how can I route individual outputs from one VE Pro instance to VE Pro on another computer? Is it possible?

Obviously I could buy additional MIR licenses for each computer but this gets expensive rather quickly as you also need additional Room packs for each.


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## Ben (Jul 19, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> but how can I route individual outputs from one VE Pro instance to VE Pro on another computer? Is it possible?


I highly suggest not to do that. You will probably get bad performance and even worse latency and stability.



synergy543 said:


> Obviously I could buy additional MIR licenses for each computer but this gets expensive rather quickly as you also need additional Room packs for each.


You can contact [email protected] to get a quote for additional licenses.


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## synergy543 (Jul 19, 2022)

Ben said:


> I highly suggest not to do that. You will probably get bad performance and even worse latency and stability.


Hmmm... OK, thanks for the reply Ben. I'll keep this in mind. However, I have already done some tests routing VE Pro with Unify within another copy VE Pro and it's been working smoothly without any issues (I have several MacPro 2013 8-cores available). So the concept is clearly possible, it's just a matter of what is the most efficient way to accomplish it. Ultimately, I want to find a way to use MIR inside Dorico sourcing from multiple computers. I've already got Dorico set up with VE Pro from multiple computers with no issues, and I just want to find a way to add MIR 3D into the equation. 

Trust me, I WILL find a way! 

Cheers, 

Greg


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 19, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> Hmmm... OK, thanks for the reply Ben. I'll keep this in mind. However, I have already done some tests routing VE Pro with Unify within another copy VE Pro and it's been working smoothly without any issues (I have several MacPro 2013 8-cores available). So the concept is clearly possible, it's just a matter of what is the most efficient way to accomplish it. Ultimately, I want to find a way to use MIR inside Dorico sourcing from multiple computers. I've already got Dorico set up with VE Pro from multiple computers with no issues, and I just want to find a way to add MIR 3D into the equation.
> 
> Trust me, I WILL find a way!



I'd like to hear more about what you're doing?


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## synergy543 (Jul 19, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> I'd like to hear more about what you're doing?


Nothing special really. I have a few computers (Hacintosh and MacPro 2013 x 3) and I want to distribute VSL instrument sections and still be able to use these with MIR. I run all instruments on VE Pro so I can connect easily from different computers but to use VSL libraries, I need to run on the local computer which only has 64G RAM (the slave computers have 64G, 32G, and 32G). Yes, one big MacPro Studio with 128G would be a better solution but that's not what I have. So if I can distribute VSL sections, then I can use the RAM and computing power of the other computers. I do this with other libraries with no problem. However, if I want to use MIR, I need to get the instruments into MIR. I can do this by running a copy of VE Pro inside Unify and connecting to an instance on one of my computers. This works. However, if I want an entire section of instruments they would each need their own instance on another copy of VE Pro which is somewhat inefficient. So, that's why I wish I could run audio from on VE Pro to another without needing to use Unify.

Also, I want to find a way to run VSL instruments inside Dorico and use MIR for my ambient space. I'm not quite sure how to set this up with MIR 3D but there must be a way. I have to study and experiment. Right now, with other libraries, I'm using other reverbs for my ambient space within Dorico. With the VSL instruments, I'm simply looking for an "all-VSL solution".

Even if I buy additional licenses for MIR on the other computers, that doesn't necessarily solve the routing problem back to Dorico. Or, possibly I'm just confused by all of this and don't know how to do it properly. Hopefully, someone will tell me I'm an idiot and tell me the right way to do it. While I appreciate Ben's warning telling me what "not to do", it doesn't necessarily solve my problem of how to integrate VSL libraries across different computers and with MIR 3D, all routed to Dorico.

Yes, I could use a DAW instead of Dorico, but that's not my goal. I want to run VSL instruments with MIR 3D inside of Dorico. Is there a way to do this?

Please tell me I'm an idiot and tell me the solution.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 19, 2022)

It’s not clear to me what you’re accomplishing by using unify? L


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## synergy543 (Jul 19, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> It’s not clear to me what you’re accomplishing by using unify? L


Here's an example:

Piccolo is on computer B on a VE Pro instance. I want to run the piccolo into MIR (running inside VE Pro) on computer A. How do I route audio from the VE Pro instance on computer B to VE Pro on computer A? I can easily route it to my DAW, but I don't know how to open it inside VE Pro on another computer.

However, if I open Unify inside of VE Pro on computer A, I can then route the piccolo from the VE Pro instance on computer B, to the copy of VE Pro running under Unify, which is running under the main VE Pro on computer A, and this then lets me open the Unify instrument inside of MIR. So the piccolo from computer B is now running inside MIR (inside of VE Pro) on computer A.

This all sounds far more convoluted and complicated than it really is (prolly cause I'm not splaining it well). Maybe I can open a copy of VE Pro inside of VE Pro itself and avoid using Unify? (I haven't tried this, but I'll wait until I get MIR 3D setup as that changes everything possibly. I dunno...I've just explored this far. What I've explained does work. 

Running VE Pro inside Unify has other advantages too. For example, my VSL Bosendorfer piano is on computer B, but if I want to just pull it up quickly on computer A, I can open a copy of Unify running VE Pro and call up the piano from computer B. Otherwise, I'd need to move the iLok license to the other computer and trust me, I'm far to lazy to do that! Unify solves this problem in 30s or less and I'm up and running without even needing to open a DAW or Dorico.

I'm just trying to find the simplest solution to integrating MIR with VE Pro and multiple computers and also within Dorico. I'm sure there's something I'm missing....and I'm just searching for that lost holy grail.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 19, 2022)

why don't you just use MirPro for everything in your DAW? I get that you're using Unify in order to nest your connections to VePro servers, but you're creating extra latency and network congestion in order to do so.

same for the piano. Why do you need to bring it from VePro server A over to VePro Server B....they all end up at your DAW anyway. Just bring them all straight back to the DAW. The license for the piano has to exist only on the server where the samples are being used. 

For mir Pro its the same, just bring your channels all back to the DAW and mix them there with MirPro from the DAW.


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## synergy543 (Jul 19, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> why don't you just use MirPro for everything in your DAW?


Mainly because I'm trying to migrate from using the DAW (DP) to mostly using Dorico. The Dorico libraries are connected via VE Pro so I can quickly open and switch between projects. And because I'm using mixed libraries (Spitfire, EW, Iconica, OT, VSL) and some are not suited as well as others for integration with MIR. Yes, life would be simpler if I just stuck with one library, but then it would be no fun.

I do get your point about nested connections, latency and network congestion and will keep this in mind as I try to find a solution. I get the irony of someone with four computers saying they are limited by resources, but it is true. I can't fit all the libs onto one computer. Even with BBCSO it doesn't run as well on a single computer with 64G RAM. On two computers, it runs very smoothly. And to add more libs, just takes even more computers/RAM. 

btw, thanks for your suggestions, much appreciated.

On a related topic....

Has anyone tried using MIR3d with Dorico? If so, how are you setting it up?


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 19, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> Mainly because I'm trying to migrate from using the DAW (DP) to mostly using Dorico. The Dorico libraries are connected via VE Pro so I can quickly open and switch between projects.



Well that is an interesting situation right there. Its been a while since I used Dorico but I think it can support MirPro, but then you have to set up more complicated stuff in Dorico to fully mix everything. vs if you do as much of the actual "mixing" in VePro as possible, then that way Dorico only needs a stereo feed from VePro and that's it. I get that. Could be a reason to have nested VePro's. I have never actually tried that.

Unify doesn't yet support multi-out audio, so I'm not sure how you are sub-nesting more than one instrument at a time though. Might work better with DDMF MetaPlugin or Kushview Element where each one could bring back seperate audio channels for each nested instrument on some other server, so that your one primary VePro machine which also happens to have MirPro could mix them all through MIR there with one license.

I wish they would figure out a way for us to use our MirPro setup on more than one VePro server...the licensing is too expensive for multiple licenses for any non-pro its just not justifiable. But ultimately that would be the best if we could move our sample libraries around at will to different servers..and use MirPro across any of them. Its a shame that it has to be so difficult due to licensing.


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## synergy543 (Jul 19, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Well that is an interesting situation right there. Its been a while since I used Dorico but I think it can support MirPro, but then you have to set up more complicated stuff in Dorico to fully mix everything. vs if you do as much of the actual "mixing" in VePro as possible, then that way Dorico only needs a stereo feed from VePro and that's it. I get that. Could be a reason to have nested VePro's. I have never actually tried that.


Mixing in Dorico makes sense now as you're doing all of your dynamics in notation so you can finesse it in the controller lanes. Its really not much different than doing MIDI editing inside of Digital Performer or any other DAW other than you're not working with audio. I've done a few pieces so far and its gone well enough I want to explore further.


Dewdman42 said:


> Unify doesn't yet support multi-out audio, so I'm not sure how you are sub-nesting more than one instrument at a time though. Might work better with DDMF MetaPlugin or Kushview Element where each one could bring back seperate audio channels for each nested instrument on some other server, so that your one primary VePro machine which also happens to have MirPro could mix them all through MIR there with one license.


Yes, that's the problem with Unify, its just one VE Pro instance at a time, which means a single instrument and that's not very efficient. But it does get the instrument and sound from one computer to another. I just wish I could use multi instruments. Blue Cat audio also has a plugin that transmits audio between computers but I'm hesitant to complicate the equation right now, particularly as its duplicating much of the work that VE Pro is doing. However, possibly these tools might be useful.





Blue Cat's Connector - Audio and MIDI Streaming Plug-In (VST, AU, VST3, AAX)







www.bluecataudio.com





Unify itself is proving to be much more useful than I thought in my daily workflow. I hate the color scheme (green and purple?) but it turns out its useful for saving lots of multi-instrument combinations that otherwise would require an instance of VE Pro or something and that just doesn't turn out to be as practical for recall. However, as I have Ve Pro instances open all the time, Unify + VE Pro is often useful just for pulling up patches from other computers and such. Plus, Unify is useful for keeping FX presets for rapid recall. So it has its uses.


Dewdman42 said:


> I wish they would figure out a way for us to use our MirPro setup on more than one VePro server...the licensing is too expensive for multiple licenses for any non-pro its just not justifiable. But ultimately that would be the best if we could move our sample libraries around at will to different servers..and use MirPro across any of them. Its a shame that it has to be so difficult due to licensing.


Yes, that's the Achilles heel of VE Pro + MIR. VE Prime Ed works quite nicely on just one computer and its very light. And it works well inside Dorico as well. I'd like to accomplish the same type of set up with my large VSL libraries but this requires multi-computers for me. And thus the question of how to best integrate MIR Pro? Even if money were no object, would you want MIR on each separate computer? It wouldn't be as convenient. That's why I want to get the VSL instruments from other computers all into MIR on one computer. I'm pretty good at solving problems, but this is getting complicated and my head starts to hurt. I could use some hand-holding step-by-step instructions for integrating all of this! Maybe VSL will make a walk-through tutorial showing how to set up MIR in various different scenarios? And also how to set it up with Dorico?


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## Scalms (Jul 19, 2022)

Got the demo, sounds amazing. But there is a major bug I’m experiencing which keeps me from buying. Can someone with Studio One 5, please check this bug….

when I add the MIR plugin to an instrument it works fine. When I then click on another instrument in Studio One, the instrument with MIRpro goes inactive (just the Mir pro effect not the instrument) and the only way to reset it is to remove the plugin and reload it onto the instrument, very annoying. This happens with both VST2 and 3. Any thoughts?

it‘s doing this with the Teldex room, I guess I could try other venues


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 19, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> = Even if money were no object, would you want MIR on each separate computer?



yes that is the best way.


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## Per Boysen (Jul 20, 2022)

I'm having a blast with the demo version here, but have one question. In VEP I'm opening the MIR plugin inside each Synchron Player's panning slot. This works fine, but in the latest video, I'm seeing Ben opening the MIR plugin in a plugin slot. So now: *Is there any difference in functionality?*


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## Per Boysen (Jul 20, 2022)

Here's another question for you more experienced MIR3D users. Only for RoomPack #1, the Vienna Konzerthaus, I could tell a difference when switching the Venue control Classical/Score/Pop. *Why is that? *

After trying all rooms I found the optimal one for my test project in the "Grosser Saal" with the Venue control set to "Pop". I'm wondering why the other RoomPacks don't bring the same level of change with the Venue Control setting?


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## Ben (Jul 20, 2022)

Per Boysen said:


> I'm having a blast with the demo version here, but have one question. In VEP I'm opening the MIR plugin inside each Synchron Player's panning slot. This works fine, but in the latest video, I'm seeing Ben opening the MIR plugin in a plugin slot. So now: *Is there any difference in functionality?*


Are you talking about VEP? If so, no, there is no difference. But ussually you don't need a panner anyways when using MIR, so you can simply replace it in VEP with MIR.


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## Ben (Jul 20, 2022)

Per Boysen said:


> Here's another question for you more experienced MIR3D users. Only for RoomPack #1, the Vienna Konzerthaus, I could tell a difference when switching the Venue control Classical/Score/Pop. *Why is that?*


Classic: Dry/Wet ratio is by default at 50%, linear
Score: Dry/Wet ratio is by default set to ~30-35%. 
Pop: Same as Score, but additionally Distance Depending Scaling is disabled for each instrument, even if tyhis was enabled.



Per Boysen said:


> After trying all rooms I found the optimal one for my test project in the "Grosser Saal" with the Venue control set to "Pop". I'm wondering why the other RoomPacks don't bring the same level of change with the Venue Control setting?


I guess it's related to you using a far mic in Großer Saal, compared to most stages close mic positions by default. If the mic is closer, Distance Depending Scaling is of course not as audible as it is with a mid/far mic position.


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## Per Boysen (Jul 20, 2022)

Thank you to Ben for answering my two questions!  It makes sense now. This amazing software is a big help and brings so much inspiration.


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## Dietz (Jul 20, 2022)

Scalms said:


> Got the demo, sounds amazing. But there is a major bug I’m experiencing which keeps me from buying. Can someone with Studio One 5, please check this bug….
> 
> when I add the MIR plugin to an instrument it works fine. When I then click on another instrument in Studio One, the instrument with MIRpro goes inactive (just the Mir pro effect not the instrument) and the only way to reset it is to remove the plugin and reload it onto the instrument, very annoying. This happens with both VST2 and 3. Any thoughts?
> 
> it‘s doing this with the Teldex room, I guess I could try other venues


Huh! I have to admit that Studio One is among the small number of DAWs I've never used myself, so my knowledge about its typical pitfalls is quite limited. If you can reproduce the issue reliably, please get in contact with [email protected] - the VSL developers' team will look into it ASAP.


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## Trash Panda (Jul 20, 2022)

Ben said:


> Please contact [email protected]
> Thanks!


Is the Support team heavily inundated? They seem to be trending towards a 72 hour response time on my ticket. I just want to upgrade from MIR 3D 24 to full Pro.


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## Ben (Jul 20, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Is the Support team heavily inundated? They seem to be trending towards a 72 hour response time on my ticket. I just want to upgrade from MIR 3D 24 to full Pro.


Yes, right now there are a lot of support requests coming in, sorry for the delay.


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## Scalms (Jul 20, 2022)

Dietz said:


> Huh! I have to admit that Studio One is among the small number of DAWs I've never used myself, so my knowledge about its typical pitfalls is quite limited. If you can reproduce the issue reliably, please get in contact with [email protected] - the VSL developers' team will look into it ASAP.


i figured it out. If the blue monitor button is activated for the track when you play it back, then MirPro is deactivated. thanks though!


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## welltempered (Jul 20, 2022)

Scalms said:


> i figured it out. If the blue monitor button is activated for the track when you play it back, then MirPro is deactivated. thanks though!


@Scalms thanks for your various observations on getting Studio One to work with MIR 3D - very helpful! I’m a fellow user of S1 - switched from Logic to S1 because of Sound Variations which has been a real boon.


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## Per Boysen (Jul 21, 2022)

Today many Synchron player instances in VEP do not load their samples, as they used to do. The only change in my setup is that I just bought MIR3d with a few room-packs and put the licenses on my USB iLok dongle (demo stuff all in the iLok Cloud). But it seems Cubase 12 (Win) and VEP are still authorizing MIR3d through the 30-day demo licenses when I run my projects. Has anyone else seen this? A known bug? *Could it be that MIR3d interferes with the Synchron players in VEP?*

My test project runs 58 Synchron players in VEP on the same machine. They are distributed over four server VEP plugin instances. Cubase runs two audio tracks, so there are two MIR venue instances, both with identical settings.

Yesterday, when running all MIR3d demo versions (without having any parallel, purchased, licenses), everything worked as expected.


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## Ben (Jul 21, 2022)

Per Boysen said:


> Today many Synchron player instances in VEP do not load their samples, as they used to do. The only change in my setup is that I just bought MIR3d with a few room-packs and put the licenses on my USB iLok dongle (demo stuff all in the iLok Cloud). But it seems Cubase 12 (Win) and VEP are still authorizing MIR3d through the 30-day demo licenses when I run my projects. Has anyone else seen this? A known bug? *Could it be that MIR3d interferes with the Synchron players in VEP?*
> 
> My test project runs 58 Synchron players in VEP on the same machine. They are distributed over four server VEP plugin instances. Cubase runs two audio tracks, so there are two MIR venue instances, both with identical settings.
> 
> Yesterday, when running all MIR3d demo versions (without having any parallel, purchased, licenses), everything worked as expected.


This should not be an issue. I have more then one license active during testing most of the times, never encountered something like that. 
Check first in the Assistant, if the libraries are registered correctly (if not, a repair icon on top will be visible in red). 
Also check in the iLok Manager if all licenses are found.


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## CT (Jul 21, 2022)

Per Boysen said:


> Today many Synchron player instances in VEP do not load their samples, as they used to do. The only change in my setup is that I just bought MIR3d with a few room-packs and put the licenses on my USB iLok dongle (demo stuff all in the iLok Cloud). But it seems Cubase 12 (Win) and VEP are still authorizing MIR3d through the 30-day demo licenses when I run my projects. Has anyone else seen this? A known bug? *Could it be that MIR3d interferes with the Synchron players in VEP?*
> 
> My test project runs 58 Synchron players in VEP on the same machine. They are distributed over four server VEP plugin instances. Cubase runs two audio tracks, so there are two MIR venue instances, both with identical settings.
> 
> Yesterday, when running all MIR3d demo versions (without having any parallel, purchased, licenses), everything worked as expected.


Probably not related to MIR. I've had the same issue since last night. Like this?






Not the first time it's happened. Previously it's been resolved by opening Vienna Assistant and allowing it to do the update that was quietly waiting there. No such luck this time. No indication at all in the Assistant why this should be happening, no iLok issues, and absolutely nothing has changed on my end to cause the issue. This is the only VSL product on my system.

Totally derailed a project, too. Final nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned. Please see my thread in the classifieds if anyone wants to buy a license for the Great Rieger Organ.


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## ModalRealist (Jul 21, 2022)

@Ben will a room pack still be included for free after the intro period?


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## madfloyd (Jul 22, 2022)

Can someone explain the difference between Mir Pro 3D & Mir Pro 3D(24)?


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## Daren Audio (Jul 22, 2022)

madfloyd said:


> Can someone explain the difference between Mir Pro 3D & Mir Pro 3D(24)?


Mir Pro 3D (24) is the lighter version and only allows you to use up to 24 instruments/instances.


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## Scalms (Jul 23, 2022)

zigzag said:


> @Ben Is get one free MIR 3D RoomPack when you order MIR 3D just part of the intro offer or will it continue when the intro offer ends?





ModalRealist said:


> @Ben will a room pack still be included for free after the intro period?


This is a great question, and thus following this one...

@Ben what is the answer?


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2022)

Scalms said:


> This is a great question, and thus following this one...
> 
> @Ben what is the answer?


Yes, you will still get a free RoomPack when purchasing a license of MIR Pro after the intro sale ends.


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## Casiquire (Jul 23, 2022)

Ben said:


> It should work automatically! Make sure you have loaded a venue preset in the Role Preset Manager, so it knows where to place your instruments.


I hope not to go ona crazy tangent but I have had a very hard time figuring out how to use MIRx as an owner of the full MIR all around. Is there a link you can point me to that just walks through the process? Thanks as always for your great help!


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 23, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I hope not to go ona crazy tangent but I have had a very hard time figuring out how to use MIRx as an owner of the full MIR all around. Is there a link you can point me to that just walks through the process? Thanks as always for your great help!


I asked Paul on a Youtube video if they are going to produce detailed/specific tutorial videos, Paul replied "Yes, there are more videos coming" , but he never said they are going to be dedicated tutorials, I am struggling too just like you, I only work with Mir and this 3D one is not easy to understand. Kind regards.


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2022)

Casiquire said:


> I hope not to go ona crazy tangent but I have had a very hard time figuring out how to use MIRx as an owner of the full MIR all around. Is there a link you can point me to that just walks through the process? Thanks as always for your great help!


MIRx is replaced with the new role preset system, but you get all the features that were available with MIRx.
First, please keep in mind that automatic role assignment only works within VE 7 / VEP 7, and only with the VI and the Synchron Player (just like it was before).
Of course, you can still assign roles manually.

1. How to auto-load a venue preset (previously known as MIRx mode):
In the Venue Selection screen (button on bottom of the app), make sure to have marked the preset as default (the star symbol).






If there are no entries available the venue has no factory venue preset (previously known as MIRx Mode).
You can also mark your custom venue preset / a customized version of the default preset as auto-load preset.

2. Assign roles to your players (if auto detection doesn't work / you are using a 3rd party sound source):
Open the Role Preset Manager, and assign the roles there (if you have not used venue auto-assign, assign a venue preset first via drag and drop on the three dots):





3. Switching venues is as simple as drag'n'droppin a different venue preset into the venue area. All isntruments with assigned roels will automatically find their new location and all other settings.

You want to create / customize your own venue and role presets? Watch this video where Sam and I go through the process:


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2022)

RicardoSilva said:


> I asked Paul on a Youtube video if they are going to produce detailed/specific tutorial videos, Paul replied "Yes, there are more videos coming" , but he never said they are going to be dedicated tutorials, I am struggling too just like you, I only work with Mir and this 3D one is not easy to understand. Kind regards.


Yes, more videos are in pipeline, sorry for the delay.


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 23, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes, more videos are in pipeline, sorry for the delay.


Are they going to be tutorials Ben? Kind regards.


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2022)

RicardoSilva said:


> Are they going to be tutorials Ben? Kind regards.


Sorry, I'm not completely up to date regarding planned videos. Usually I'm not much involved in the video creation process.
But I think we will release more tutorials regarding different topics around MIR soon.


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## RicardoSilva (Jul 23, 2022)

Ben said:


> Sorry, I'm not completely up to date regarding planned videos. Usually I'm not much involved in the video creation process.
> But I think we will release more tutorials regarding different topics around MIR soon.


That's great news then, thank you Ben.


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## CT (Jul 23, 2022)

Per Boysen said:


> Today many Synchron player instances in VEP do not load their samples, as they used to do. The only change in my setup is that I just bought MIR3d with a few room-packs and put the licenses on my USB iLok dongle (demo stuff all in the iLok Cloud). But it seems Cubase 12 (Win) and VEP are still authorizing MIR3d through the 30-day demo licenses when I run my projects. Has anyone else seen this? A known bug? *Could it be that MIR3d interferes with the Synchron players in VEP?*
> 
> My test project runs 58 Synchron players in VEP on the same machine. They are distributed over four server VEP plugin instances. Cubase runs two audio tracks, so there are two MIR venue instances, both with identical settings.
> 
> Yesterday, when running all MIR3d demo versions (without having any parallel, purchased, licenses), everything worked as expected.


In case your issue was similar to mine and you've still not resolved it, you may need to reset the sample paths in each player's Database preferences. Pending updates to libraries or Vienna Assistant seem to break that, at least for me, and the most recent one has not rectified itself once updated as past ones have.


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## synergy543 (Jul 23, 2022)

Can someone explain in detail how MIR3d fits in with Apple Logic and Cubase Atmos features?

Can these be integrated? And if so, what are the best practices?

I guess the main question is: What is the best practice for producing Atmos mixes with MIR3D?


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> Can someone explain in detail how MIR3d fits in with Apple Logic and Cubase Atmos features?
> 
> Can these be integrated? And if so, what are the best practices?
> 
> I guess the main question is: What is the best practice for producing Atmos mixes with MIR3D?


Make sure MIR is set to 7.1.2 / 7.1.4, select a matching mic setup, and route the signals to your ATMOS bed.


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## Leigh (Jul 23, 2022)

Ben said:


> MIRx is replaced with the new role preset system, but you get all the features that were available with MIRx.
> First, please keep in mind that automatic role assignment only works within VE 7 / VEP 7, and only with the VI and the Synchron Player (just like it was before).
> Of course, you can still assign roles manually.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for this @Ben! Now I see how it works!

**Leigh


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 23, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> Can someone explain in detail how MIR3d fits in with Apple Logic and Cubase Atmos features?
> 
> Can these be integrated? And if so, what are the best practices?
> 
> I guess the main question is: What is the best practice for producing Atmos mixes with MIR3D?



This is what I have been investigating the past few days. 

But anyway, the idea about Atmos is that the speaker configuration is not baked into the files. when you play it back, the local system knows where all the speakers are in your room and attempts to make the best use of it. More or less. Don't shoot me if I have that detail wrong, I'm still learning.

So with MirPro3D, you basically setup your DAW to use some kind of 3D surround sound speaker arrangement, that means you have some speakers in front of you, some behind you, some above you, and possibly some on the sides, in the center, and a possible one or more LFE. There are various different typical surround sound configurations, though some are more common, like Ben mentioned already a couple common ones that are well supported by MirPro3D's presets.

7.1.2 means FrontRight, FrontLeft, Center, LeftSide, RightSide, LeftRear, Right Rear (7) + 1 LFE + 2 speakers in front up high above you pointing down. 7.1.2

7.1.4 has added two rears that are also up high.

5.1.2 is what my new Sonos system in the living room is. It doesn't have sides. I think this will be more typical of most consumer home theater setups. My rears are ceiling mounted, so its not clear to me yet how Atmos will make sense out of that, but we'll see.

Dietz says that for music, we don't really need to bother with the LFE channel, so you could use 5.0.2 or 7.0.2 for example for that case.

And there are other possibilities as well, but I suspect these are the most common possible surround sound physical speaker configurations out there that support the Z axis, making them 3D.

MirPro3D does all its sonic manipulation with an ambisonic 360 degree sphere. Everything calculated in terms of directivity, IR's, reflections and everything else ends up being calculated according to a 360 degree sphere around the mic array. The mic array and output format is what determines how that 360 degree sphere will be translated into, for example, a 7.1.4 virtual loudspeaker configuration.

Your DAW receives that and if you have enough loudspeakers in your studio you will hear the folded down rendition of 360 degrees of sound from MirPro3D.

Dolby Atmos, however doesn't have that loudspeaker configuration quitr so set in stone, it can adapt at playtime to the local speaker config somehow.

If you were playing it back through Apple AirPod Pros, it will probably sound closer to the virtual 7.1.4 configuration you used when you mixed it with MirPro3D and your DAW according to that virtual loudspeaker setup. 

while working at home, Monitoring with binaural headphones is the way to go...unelss you have an incredible recording studio with lots of loudspeakers. I don't think a single one of us does. So Binaural headphones are the way to go. This means encoding the final mixed result on the master bus, into binaural format, and using any standard headphones. LogicPro and Cubase both provide a plugin to do that. There are also third party plugins you can get such as dearVRmonitor, that can do this. They convert a multi-channel surround mix of various available configurations, into two channel binaural, which you send over stereo to your headphones, and you'll hear it 3D, again it should sound close to what that virtual 7.1.4 format was you mixed with in your DAW using MirPro3D..or whichever mix bus configuration you chose.

In the end, you will render it as Atmos...and then it will playback on a variety of systems as best as it can using Atmos tech to fold down or expand the audio across whatever loudspeakers are actually present at that time.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 23, 2022)

ps - I personally plan to use 5.1.2 as long as the DAW itself and the output format presets in MirPro3D support that format. DP does not support that. I think Cubase does, not sure about LogicPro.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 23, 2022)

pps - Cubase also has the ability to mix in 3rd order Ambisonics directly. I want to experiment with MirPro3D using its raw ambisonics output format..which just passes the raw ambisonics back out to Cubase as 16 channels of audio per track. Supposedly. Hypothetically, Cubase's binaural encoder would then translate MirPro3D's raw ambisonic representation of the sound in the room directly to binaural that way...bypassing any kind of theoretical surround sound virtual loudspeaker array or mic array or anything of that sort... this might be closest to what we would hear if we were standing there in the venue. That is not necessarily what you want on a recording anyway, the various mic arrays are pleasing filters in their own way, but its just something I want to experiment with. All the audio channels might blow up my poor little MacPro5,1 anyway.

Passing through MirPro3D's virtual mic arrays provides an audio engineering filter so to speak that is closer to what would happen in the real world if we were trying to mic and record a real orchestra in the same room. It would not end up on tape the same as our ears would hear in the room if we were stand-in there because its being filtered through an array of mics and other processing.

MirPro3D provides a bunch of preset mic arrays and also some that use some Matrix Mixer processing on top of that, created by Dietz! These tend to result in a sound that is probably closer to what we are accustomed to hearing on actual recordings...and various different ways. So this kind of process has to assume some virtual loudspeaker configuration that its targeting, and does its best to do that. 

Plus other then Cubase, I'm not sure what other DAW's are even capable of mixing Ambisonics directly like that.. LogicPro definitely can't. Digital Performer can't even do 3D audio at all. 

That's why you have to choose a virtual loudspeaker configuration such as 7.1.4 and work with that, it provides sonic signatures we are accustomed to through the various mic arrays available to target that speaker configuration, and the DAW's are built to mix that way right now....regardless of the fact it will be destined for Atmos and the playback system is unknown. The output format and mic array chosen in MirPro3D will produce an engineered sound according to those things.


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## synergy543 (Jul 23, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> In the end, you will render it as Atmos...and then it will playback on a variety of systems as best as it can using Atmos tech to fold down or expand the audio across whatever loudspeakers are actually present at that time.


OK, so say I mix with MIR3d and render it as Atmos (not exactly sure how to do this yet, do I need to do this in Logic or Cubase? Or do I need the Dolby Production Suite?), and then what file format does it end up as? Is it a .wav file, or some other format? And how are you getting this file over to your living room Atmos setup which I presume has an Atmos decoder?

Obviously being confused by all of this, I went to see what consumer Atmos setups I can buy. I basically found a hodge-podge of old 5.1 setups (Best Buy and Crutchfield) and a few high end setups going for $23,000 ~ $50,000. Somehow, I think the consumer may not be ready for all of this (or is everyone just listening through earbuds?).

I have explored mixing with four channels and it turned into a rather complex mix setup bringing my computer to its knees. Maybe MIR3d will help simplify this. Will it work with just a simple 4 speaker setup?

One thing that puzzles me about Atmos is why they setup two speakers up high in the rear. Its much easier to locate height direction in front of us due to the shape of our ears. I suppose the jets, monsters and other sound effects all approach us from the rear for maximum effect.

Not to throw off the thread focus on MIR3d, I created another thread for Atmos setup discussions.




__





Atmos mixing with Cubase or Logic? Headphones or speakers?


What is your experience so far mixing with Atmos on Cubase or Logic? And what about headphones vs speakers? I've never heard a surround mix from headphones (even the ambiosonic haircut) that was even slightly as impress as from a set of surround speakers. Yet, an Atmos speaker setup is...




vi-control.net


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## Ben (Jul 23, 2022)

MIR Pro 3D also supports quadro surround.
Well, I would not think to much about ATMOS unless you need to work with it.
MIR Pro 3D has a 7.0.4 to stereo downmix option, and if you instead want to get a 7.0.4 to binaural stereo output (headphones required), I suggest to take a look at DearVR Monitor. But be aware that 7.1.4 requires at least 6x the CPU resources compared to stereo! If you choose the 7.0.4 to stereo downmix in MIR instead the CPU load stays the same.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 23, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> OK, so say I mix with MIR3d and render it as Atmos (not exactly sure how to do this yet, do I need to do this in Logic or Cubase? Or do I need the Dolby Production Suite?), and then what file format does it end up as? Is it a .wav file, or some other format?


I don't know the answers to some of your questions yet I man still learning about it. But my understanding at the moment is that you need the Dolby Production Suite, but something is provided in LogicPro (and maybe cubase) that may be able to do produce something to a limited degree. You'll have to research what exactly they produce. I think there are some interim file formats, but ultimately the final product will end up on a streamable MP4 file. Some people may send interim files in various different formats to whomever is asking for it..but the end product will likely be a streamable MP4 file that has been encoded with an appropriate Dolby format.




synergy543 said:


> And how are you getting this file over to your living room Atmos setup which I presume has an Atmos decoder?



I do know that to play it back on your home Sonos you will need an MP4 file that has been encoded with the Dolby Atmos formats supported by Sonos...which there are several and I don't know any more than that right now. 

but that should not be your main consideration for production. You need to be able to monitor the 3D sound in your studio. The easiest way to do that will be through binaural headphones. LogicPro and cubase, for example, provide binaural encoding plugins which sit on your master bus and convert for example a 7.1.4 mix into two channels of binaural, which you send to headphones. Binaural format uses psychoacoustics to recreate a 3D experience in headphones. That's probably the best monitoring most of us are going to get.



synergy543 said:


> Obviously being confused by all of this, I went to see what consumer Atmos setups I can buy. I basically found a hodge-podge of old 5.1 setups (Best Buy and Crutchfield) and a few high end setups going for $23,000 ~ $50,000. Somehow, I think the consumer may not be ready for all of this (or is everyone just listening through earbuds?).




for pricing on Sonos home theater 5.1.2 system is here (~$2k): https://www.worldwidestereo.com/pro...mAowMmgaTUxnebir8uk5Vwf9BQu6_wIwaAuw6EALw_wcB

Some content will end up being streamed to ear buds...in some kind of encoded psychoacoustic format such as binaural or whatever spatial stuff the apple's are using, etc. Games are going to increasingly use 3D audio as people use VR technology which will include it. This is all coming.




synergy543 said:


> I have explored mixing with four channels and it turned into a rather complex mix setup bringing my computer to its knees. Maybe MIR3d will help simplify this. Will it work with just a simple 4 speaker setup?



Well I agree. I don't plan to try to manually pan and mix any complex 3D or even four speaker 2D productions, panning things myself. The idea about MirPro3D is to do most of that automatically. That's part of the whole point..it can create 2D or even 3D results..automatically. (knock on wood)



synergy543 said:


> One thing that puzzles me about Atmos is why they setup two speakers up high in the rear. Its much easier to locate height direction in front of us due to the shape of our ears. I suppose the jets, monsters and other sound effects all approach us from the rear for maximum effect.



Well many home Atmos systems will in fact not have above head rears. Sonos is 5.1.2, that is only two above, in front. There might be some rare cases where 7.1.4 would be totally ideal...but I think in practical terms 7.1.2 or even 5.1.2 are more than enough. Dietz says that for music, 5.0.2 is even enough.




synergy543 said:


> Not to throw off the thread focus on MIR3d, I created another thread for Atmos setup discussions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



good idea.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 23, 2022)

Ben said:


> if you instead want to get a 7.0.4 to binaural stereo output (headphones required), I suggest to take a look at DearVR Monitor. But be aware that 7.1.4 requires at least 6x the CPU resources compared to stereo! If you choose the 7.0.4 to stereo downmix in MIR instead the CPU load stays the same.



LogicPro and Cubase both provide binaural monitoring, no need to buy dearVRmonitor if you are using those DAW's. DP, I am finding, does not have any support for 3D mix busses so as of now, its really not going to work if you want to monitor 3D. Can monitor 5.1 or 7.1 no problem.


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## Dewdman42 (Jul 23, 2022)

Also I want to say that while I'm extremely curious about hearing MirPro3D reproduce a 3D music experience....I think the reality is that for the most part, regular or planar 2D (surround) will be quite more than enough, and even stereo for now. Like Ben, said there are numerous complications and performance demands of processing so many channels. I actually have been wanting for quite some time to setup a couple of rears in my studio just to enjoy the experience sitting in there composing with my VSL libraries and hearing the MirPro hall in 2D. That alone would already be quite an enhancement, the extra level of 3D audio, and actually hearing it in 3D through binaural headphones...while an interesting curiosity...its probably not something most of us need to worry about producing for distribution...at least for now. I am curious about it though and interested to hear the full Ambisonic 3D glory in some way, Might have to bounce all my tracks one instrument at a time in order to experience that though.


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## gcorcella (Jul 26, 2022)

I did a video review of MIR Pro 3D on virtualorchestration.it. Maybe this could be of interest to someone


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## Dietz (Jul 26, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Dietz says that for music, 5.0.2 is even enough.


*cough* ... 5.0.2 is "enough", but actually 5.0.4 is the "sweet spot" for me between technical hassle and rewarding listening experience (if I'm allowed to add).


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## Vladinemir (Aug 1, 2022)

Beginner questions
When you use MIR in DAW, do you need VEPro or does some other app open in addition to VSTs on instruments' channels?
_Do you get free room pack when buying on Bestservice?
Which room pack do you get?_
Edit - you can choose on free pack on Bestservice too.


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## doctoremmet (Aug 1, 2022)

Vladinemir said:


> When you use MIR in DAW, do you need VEPro or does some other app open in addition to VSTs on instruments' channels?


You do not need VEPro


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## doctoremmet (Aug 1, 2022)

Vladinemir said:


> Do you get free room pack when buying on Bestservice?
> Which room pack do you get?


This what Best Service’s website says:






So - yes, during this intro sale you do get a free roompack. You have to tell them which one you’d like to get. I have upgraded my old license to 3D via Best Service (and received a free roompack as well), this is a process that takes about one business day. It all went very smoothly.


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## Vladinemir (Aug 1, 2022)

Yes I saw that a moment ago and edited the post but you were quicker. Sorry for being inpatient.


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## Jofamusic (Aug 5, 2022)

Mi chiamo Giuseppe Sbernini dall'Italia,
Ho scaricato MIR Pro 3D in versione demo, devo dire che è fantastico. Funziona perfettamente sul mio PC I9 con Cubase 11.
Forse la domanda che sto per porre sembrerà sciocca, ma devo porre la domanda per capire come utilizzare al meglio i microfoni dei miei strumenti VST.
Quali microfoni dovrei usare nei miei strumenti VST all'interno di MIR Pro 3D. Spiegherò;
Uso diverse librerie di marche diverse che hanno riprese microfoniche in ambienti diversi (vicino, palcoscenico, stanza ecc.). In MIR Pro cosa è bene fare? Uso solo il microfono chiuso?
Sapreste darmi una risposta a questa mia domanda. Grazie


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## gcorcella (Aug 5, 2022)

Jofamusic said:


> Mi chiamo Giuseppe Sbernini dall'Italia,
> Ho scaricato MIR Pro 3D in versione demo, devo dire che è fantastico. Funziona perfettamente sul mio PC I9 con Cubase 11.
> Forse la domanda che sto per porre sembrerà sciocca, ma devo porre la domanda per capire come utilizzare al meglio i microfoni dei miei strumenti VST.
> Quali microfoni dovrei usare nei miei strumenti VST all'interno di MIR Pro 3D. Spiegherò;
> ...


sì, la soluzione migliore sarebbe usare le microfonazioni close per ridurre al minimo l'ambiente in cui la libreria è stata registrata e quindi evitare di sovrapporre la riverberazione della stanza della libreria con quella di MIR Pro


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## Jofamusic (Aug 5, 2022)

gcorcella said:


> sì, la soluzione migliore sarebbe usare le microfonazioni close per ridurre al minimo l'ambiente in cui la libreria è stata registrata e quindi evitare di sovrapporre la riverberazione della stanza con quella di MIR Pro


Grazie Giuseppe, stavo guardando il tuo video e mi hai risposto. E' quello che pensavo anch'io perchè altrimenti c'è il rischio di andare ad infangare l'impulse response di MIR con riflessioni già presenti nelle microfonature dei VST. Tu avresti altre soluzioni di utilizzo? Ciao e grazie ancora


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## gcorcella (Aug 5, 2022)

Jofamusic said:


> Grazie Giuseppe, stavo guardando il tuo video e mi hai risposto. E' quello che pensavo anch'io perchè altrimenti c'è il rischio di andare ad infangare l'impulse response di MIR con riflessioni già presenti nelle microfonature dei VST. Tu avresti altre soluzioni di utilizzo? Ciao e grazie ancora


Il problema con i close è che si va a perdere parte della composita dello strumento, questo succede in particolare modo con Brass e Percussioni. Secondo me usare i close è la soluzione migliore per evitare problemi coi riverberi a convoluzione, però tuttavia la risposta può cambiare da libreria a libreria. Quindi si può anche fare delle prove per vedere come suonano determinate librerie in MIR anche con le microfonazioni aperte, e al massimo si cambia. È il bello del digitale: si possono fare decine di tentativi anche estremi non distruttivi. Io di solito quando faccio mix vado a lavorare sui singoli strumenti e se necessario cambio la tipologia di microfono all'interno di MIR anche per i singoli strumenti. Il suono può cambiare parecchio.


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## Jofamusic (Aug 5, 2022)

gcorcella said:


> Il problema con i close è che si va a perdere parte della composita dello strumento, questo succede in particolare modo con Brass e Percussioni. Secondo me usare i close è la soluzione migliore per evitare problemi coi riverberi a convoluzione, però tuttavia la risposta può cambiare da libreria a libreria. Quindi si può anche fare delle prove per vedere come suonano determinate librerie in MIR anche con le microfonazioni aperte, e al massimo si cambia. È il bello del digitale: si possono fare decine di tentativi anche estremi non distruttivi. Io di solito quando faccio mix vado a lavorare sui singoli strumenti e se necessario cambio la tipologia di microfono all'interno di MIR anche per i singoli strumenti. Il suono può cambiare parecchio.


Lo utilizzo da 1 settimana e sto facendo una prova con una composizione orchestrale e con VST diversi.
CSS, CSW, VSL timpani, VSL arpa, Iron Brass. Devo dedicare del tempo per ottenere la giusta configurazione nella scelta dei mics. Pensavo di acquistare la versione (24) e poi vedrò. Grazie ancora per la tue risposte. Cordiali saluti da Giuseppe Sbernini - Reggio Emilia


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## Karmand (Aug 5, 2022)

FWIW: I use Logic & Dolby Production Suite and got good results. I produced 5.1.4 tests. I say 'good' because mixing is different so ya have to learn how that works but it is kind cool sending mic signals to each atmos area. It's easier to watch some Dolby Tutorials, VSL logic tutorials and Render Tutorials than explain it. Dolby Production Suite has a 30 day demo; get it and try it.


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## augure86 (Aug 5, 2022)

Hello everyone,

Switched to MirPro 3D and wondering if is possible to share the same MirPro 3D instance for both audio recordings and midi performances (when using VePro) ?

Basically, in Cubase my orchestra midi tracks are routed to a single VePRO instance. In this instance I have MirPro 3D vst as FX insert on each audio output. So far so good.

Now in Cubase when I insert MirPro 3D vst on some audio tracks it just opens a new MirPro 3D instance. Maybe I'm missing something obvious here, but it doesn't seem I can select the MirPro 3D instance from Cubase.

So far the only solution that works is to insert the MirPro 3D vst directly in Cubase on both audio tracks and VePro audio outputs. But that means I have to handle the orchestra mixing inside Cubase..

Any thoughts on this ?


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 5, 2022)

You don't have to mix it all in Cubase, but you will just not necessarily be able to have all your instrument icons together on one stage...The instruments hosted from Cubase will be on one stage and the ones form VePro on another. I agree, it would be more cool if they could share one stage. But its also not really that big of a deal if they are seperate MirPro stages of the same venue.


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## Dietz (Aug 6, 2022)

augure86 said:


> Now in Cubase when I insert MirPro 3D vst on some audio tracks it just opens a new MirPro 3D instance. Maybe I'm missing something obvious here, but it doesn't seem I can select the MirPro 3D instance from Cubase.


There is VE Pro's own "Audio Input" plug-in that is able to route audio _from_ the DAW _to_ VE Pro. Technically you could mix everything in VE Pro and one instance of MIR 3D then.

Just be warned that from a software engineer's point of view, this seemingly modest Audio Input plug-in is quite a stunt and puts considerable strain on your DAW's CPU. 8-/


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## Jackdnp121 (Aug 12, 2022)

Hi Guys , I'm Testing out The Auto Microphone aiming Function in MIR Pro 3D ... however instruments seems to be pointing anywhere but where the microphone Is at lol ...

I've attached the screenshot .. 

does anyone have a Clue ? 

Cheers !


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## Germain B (Aug 12, 2022)

It seems that you should activate it while instruments are in their default direction (pointing straight "down").


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## Trash Panda (Aug 12, 2022)

Jackdnp121 said:


> Hi Guys , I'm Testing out The Auto Microphone aiming Function in MIR Pro 3D ... however instruments seems to be pointing anywhere but where the microphone Is at lol ...
> 
> I've attached the screenshot ..
> 
> ...


Make sure the rotation value of the instrument is 0 degrees.


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## Jackdnp121 (Aug 13, 2022)

Germain B said:


> It seems that you should activate it while instruments are in their default direction (pointing straight "down").





Trash Panda said:


> Make sure the rotation value of the instrument is 0 degrees.


Thanks guys , legends … ! it worked  cheers Mate !


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## muziksculp (Aug 16, 2022)




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## muziksculp (Aug 16, 2022)




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## Karmand (Aug 16, 2022)

@Ben I just received this in an email from your marketing:
"




We’re extending our introductory offers!





When you *upgrade* to Vienna MIR Pro 3D or Vienna MIR Pro 3D (24), *all six MIR 3D RoomPacks will be free of charge* and will be added to your basket automatically!




What? Explain please.


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## muziksculp (Aug 16, 2022)

This is what my email mentioned. 

Quote : "




We’re extending our introductory offers!





Receive *one free MIR 3D RoomPack* of your choice when you *upgrade* to Vienna MIR Pro 3D!


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## Karmand (Aug 16, 2022)

Well interesting, mine says ALL six... hmmm... writing to support.


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## Zanshin (Aug 16, 2022)

Karmand said:


> Well interesting, mine says ALL six... hmmm... writing to support.


Do you own all six of the legacy room packs?


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## Manuel Stumpf (Aug 16, 2022)

Karmand said:


> Well interesting, mine says ALL six... hmmm... writing to support.


The VSL website says the following (loosely translated from german to english):
If you already own all 6 roompacks the upgrade of all 6 will be free, when you upgrade MIR to MIR 3D.


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## Daren Audio (Aug 16, 2022)

Ben said:


> Upgrade paths available for both software and RoomPacks. If you buy MIR Pro 3D or an upgrade from MIR Pro you will get one RoomPack of your choice for free!* In case you already own all 6 Roompacks you will get the upgrade of all Roompacks for free instead!*





Karmand said:


> Well interesting, mine says ALL six... hmmm... writing to support.


https://vi-control.net/community/threads/new-mir-pro-3d-free-30-days-demo.127434/

For the OP, if you own all six of the old room packs, you get to upgrade those packs for free.
If you don't own all 6 of the old versions, the email was probably an error.


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## Dietz (Aug 16, 2022)

Karmand said:


> @Ben I just received this in an email from your marketing:
> "
> 
> ​
> ...


I think something wrong. I'm not involved with marketing, but I've read a few internal messages saying that there was a mistake in the most recent newsletter.


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## Karmand (Aug 16, 2022)

Yea I know what the program has been all along - they just offered me all 6 - I do not own all six, I have 3. I sure hope they come thru otherwise that would be false advertising/email marketing to me.


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## Zanshin (Aug 16, 2022)

Lol mistakes happen.


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## ptram (Aug 16, 2022)

These tutorials are really interesting. MIR Pro 3D is really stunning. And I understand that multichannel is not the only target — maybe binaural is the real deal!

Paolo


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## Karmand (Aug 16, 2022)

Yes, the new 3D is actually better, but what also is so cool is MIRacle's update and how it sounds. I am super-exploring these two things right now and it is making a difference in my sound and my inspiration.


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## Ben (Aug 16, 2022)

Karmand said:


> Yea I know what the program has been all along - they just offered me all 6 - I do not own all six, I have 3. I sure hope they come thru otherwise that would be false advertising/email marketing to me.


This message was targeted to the users that own all 6 RoomPacks / the RoomPack bundle, sorry for the confusion.
My colleagues have already fixed it, so the users should get the correct mails again.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 16, 2022)

dearVRmonitor works extremely well with MirPro3D, I am quite glad about the purchase, though I was able to get it for $29 through the PA forever29 plan, that plan is now no longer available, so unless you're already a member, the best price for dearVRmonitor that I am aware of is the deal through VSl for $65...which is still a great deal IMHO. 

FWIW, some DAW's have binaural encoding plugins built in..!! So you can experience this without buying dearVRmonitor. Cubase and LogicPro both have it, for example. I'm not sure about ProTools. That being said, I still bought dearVRmonitor because its a little better then the built in ones and forms an excellent headphone monitoring system...even if you aren't using MirPro3D or even if you're not even mixing in 3D...even for just stereo...its a nice binaural based system which provides alternative speaker systems to monitor through for comparison, lots of flexibly on the virtual loudspeaker system you are monitoring with, as well as headphone calibration for a long list of headphones...which made it sound much better to me then the built in binaural encoders of cubase and LogicPro. 

As those excellent demos from VSL demonstrate, it really brings room presence alive in a way I have not experienced in a long time. I definitely had a "wow" experience trying out MirPro3D through dearVRmonitor and I'm just getting started..


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## Trash Panda (Aug 16, 2022)

@Dietz is it more accurate to raise the primary mic array a few meters into the air to reflect a real tree mic setup? I’ve noticed in a few videos the secondary mics are typically raised.


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## JTB (Aug 16, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> the best price for dearVRmonitor that I am aware of is the deal through VSl for $65...which is still a great deal IMHO.


😯 Could you please tell me where to access this deal?.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 16, 2022)

dearVR MONITOR and MIR Pro 3D







www.dear-reality.com


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## JTB (Aug 16, 2022)

So, should 'Directivity Profile For Dry Signal' be used by default?. And if so, why is it not on by default?. CPU?. Luckily VSL thought to enable us to select every instrument inside MIR Pro 3D by Select(Shift)Select in the list on the left and apply this. Few!!!


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## bcslaam (Aug 16, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> dearVR MONITOR and MIR Pro 3D
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Dewdman42 said:


> dearVRmonitor works extremely well with MirPro3D, I am quite glad about the purchase, though I was able to get it for $29 through the PA forever29 plan, that plan is now no longer available, so unless you're already a member, the best price for dearVRmonitor that I am aware of is the deal through VSl for $65...which is still a great deal IMHO.
> 
> FWIW, some DAW's have binaural encoding plugins built in..!! So you can experience this without buying dearVRmonitor. Cubase and LogicPro both have it, for example. I'm not sure about ProTools. That being said, I still bought dearVRmonitor because its a little better then the built in ones and forms an excellent headphone monitoring system...even if you aren't using MirPro3D or even if you're not even mixing in 3D...even for just stereo...its a nice binaural based system which provides alternative speaker systems to monitor through for comparison, lots of flexibly on the virtual loudspeaker system you are monitoring with, as well as headphone calibration for a long list of headphones...which made it sound much better to me then the built in binaural encoders of cubase and LogicPro.
> 
> As those excellent demos from VSL demonstrate, it really brings room presence alive in a way I have not experienced in a long time. I definitely had a "wow" experience trying out MirPro3D through dearVRmonitor and I'm just getting started..


What are the differences you've noticed between CubasePro/Nuendo binaural render and dearVR monitor? I run Nuendo12 and own dearVR Pro (although havent used it yet) and if there was an improvement from using dearVR monitor in the renders I might jump on the deal.

I admit its not clear to me yet if I have have the same features/code already in dearVR Pro because I havent used it yet (for spatializing MIR3d kills it), given I can monitor in atmos with good speakers and mainly seek to improve binaural encoding and render playback qc


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## Dietz (Aug 17, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> @Dietz is it more accurate to raise the primary mic array a few meters into the air to reflect a real tree mic setup?


No. Please keep in mind that MIR is "sample-based", so to speak, not a synthesized algorithmic reverb. While Ambisonics offers a myriad of ways to make funny things with the input signal, the IRs themselves have still been captured from the very same microphone positions.

If you point me towards the demos which use raised mic positions I'll try to find out what has been the idea behind this decision. Keep in mind that there _are_ Venues where we had mics in the back of the hall on a balcony, though. In these cases we hear "real" height.


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## Dietz (Aug 17, 2022)

JTB said:


> So, should 'Directivity Profile For Dry Signal' be used by default?


No, not really. Quoting the preliminary manual:

_Dry Signal Handling_​​

​​_The parameters in this section are all on/off items and determine processing conditions of the incoming dry signal only:_​​_*Directivity Profile* [for Dry Signal]: enables / disables the Directivity Profile for the dry signal. By default, MIR handles direct signals as if they were always recorded with a perfectly positioned spot microphone that rotates together with the instrument. This option keeps the spot microphone in a fixed location when the Instrument Icon is rotated, so that the musician turns away from the microphone._​​_Under normal circumstances, the Directivity Profile controls only the way a source interacts with the room. This option will use the same Profile for the dry signal, too. If enabled, the instrument’s changes in timbre in connection with directivity are taken into account for the dry signal, so that a trumpet facing away from the listener will not only have less volume, but also sound differently – a*n effect that may enhance the illusion of spatialization in some cases but should usually remain deactivated.*_​​[...]
​​


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## ptram (Aug 17, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> dearVR MONITOR and MIR Pro 3D
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, thank you! At this price, there is no excuse not to get it!

Paolo


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## JTB (Aug 18, 2022)

ptram said:


> Hey, thank you! At this price, there is no excuse to get it!


You mean, no excuse not to get it?.
I can't seem to find a reason to pull the trigger. Even with the 75% off. I already own Abbey Road Studio for my virtual mixing environment needs. And monitoring in binaural or simulated surround doesn't really strike me as anything other than a 'nice to have' at this point.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 18, 2022)

bcslaam said:


> What are the differences you've noticed between CubasePro/Nuendo binaural render and dearVR monitor? I run Nuendo12 and own dearVR Pro (although havent used it yet) and if there was an improvement from using dearVR monitor in the renders I might jump on the deal.



The one in Cubase is basically a bit of a kludge. You have to setup an Atmos project and then ignore all the Atmos features like Atmos objects, etc.. but it does include the Dolby binaural renderer. Not that the dolby renderer sucks per say... I think it sounds good! I'd try that for a while, doesn't cost anything.

The dearVRmonitor product has additional features related to binaural encoding. First, dearReality has included profiles of numerous listening environments including a dry room, living room, several studios, live venues of different sizes, car, etc. So you can check your mix in these output profiles to see how it might sound played back on different Atmos speaker arrays.

Secondly it includes much more control over reverberation that you are adding (for the purposes of simulating a monitoring environment). 

Thirdly it includes headphone calibration. So I configured it for my Sony headphone model and the response was then flat for my headphones and sounded much better.

It also has some adjustment knobs and sliders to fine tune some of the process.

It basically does more then just simple binaural encoding, it provides a way to specify a virtual monitoring environment.



bcslaam said:


> I admit its not clear to me yet if I have have the same features/code already in dearVR Pro because I havent used it yet (for spatializing MIR3d kills it), given I can monitor in atmos with good speakers and mainly seek to improve binaural encoding and render playback qc



dearVRPro is more focused as being an actual panner plugin that also happens to have some binaural encoding built in. For MirPro3D purposes, you want dearVRmonitor.


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## JTB (Aug 18, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> The dearVRmonitor product has additional features related to binaural encoding.


Does it enable us to render a binaural, surround or Dolby Atmos mixdown?. And if not, what software is required to do this?. I am on Cubase Pro 10.5.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 18, 2022)

JTB said:


> You mean, no excuse not to get it?.
> I can't seem to find a reason to pull the trigger. Even with the 75% off. I already Abbey Road Studio and monitoring in binaural or simulated surround doesn't really strike me as anything other than a 'nice to have'.



The offerings from Waves, such as Abbey Road are not providing what you need for 3D immersive sound monitoring. They are emulating the sonic footprint of famous studios...mainly in stereo. 

dearReality's point of view is that those kinds of products are following the wrong approach by doing that, they instead don't try to emulate any famous studio sonic signature, and attempt to create a more "idealized" mixing environment.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 18, 2022)

JTB said:


> Does it enable us to render a binaural, surround or Dolby Atmos mixdown?. And if not, what software is required to do this?. I am on Cubase Pro 10.5.


It only renders binaural FROM surround mix bus. It does not have anything to do with Dolby Atmos.


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## Dr.Quest (Aug 18, 2022)

JTB said:


> Does it enable us to render a binaural, surround or Dolby Atmos mixdown?. And if not, what software is required to do this?. I am on Cubase Pro 10.5.


You'll need Cubase 12 or Nuendo 12 for Dolby Atmos.


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## Antonio Zarza (Aug 18, 2022)

Hi all, do you now if dearVR Monitor can work with Studio One too?, since I read that Studio One can’t support surround.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 18, 2022)

If you can't mix in surround, then dearVRmonitor is of limited usefulness.


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## Ben (Aug 18, 2022)

Antonio Zarza said:


> Hi all, do you now if dearVR Monitor can work with Studio One too?, since I read that Studio One can’t support surround.


In Studio One it's better to use the Immersive to Stereo Downmix mic settings. But you will not get a binaural signal.


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## Edu (Aug 18, 2022)

@Ben do you know when the dearVR Monitor for MIR Pro 3D offer will finish?
Second question: is it possible to use dearVR Monitor also with the Synchron series (without MIR)?


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## Ben (Aug 18, 2022)

Edu said:


> @Ben do you know when the dearVR Monitor for MIR Pro 3D offer will finish?


Sorry, I don't know.



Edu said:


> Second question: is it possible to use dearVR Monitor also with the Synchron series (without MIR)?


Yes, this is also possible if you own Full Library Synchron Libraries or BBO libraries (which include the additional surround mics).
This said, I have not tried this with Synchron Libraries yet, so I can't give any further advice regarding such a setup.


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## Alexp (Aug 19, 2022)

Ben you can please my because the support service is silent since the morning. My license was taken away by mistake Mir 3d (24) which I upgraded two days ago. And now I can't work


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## Ben (Aug 19, 2022)

Alexp said:


> Ben you can please my because the support service is silent since the morning. My license was taken away by mistake Mir 3d (24) which I upgraded two days ago. And now I can't work


PM me the support case number and your email address.


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## David Kudell (Aug 20, 2022)

Hello, interested in Mir Pro 3D but also I’m trying to rid my system of any non-Apple Silicon native plugins. Would you say the native version is weeks-months or more like a year?


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## hauspe (Aug 21, 2022)

Ben said:


> Yes, this is also possible if you own Full Library Synchron Libraries or BBO libraries (which include the additional surround mics).
> This said, I have not tried this with Synchron Libraries yet, so I can't give any further advice regarding such a setup.


To me that is a serious point - I am falling between the cracks, I tested the Mir Pro 3D demo a lot and it is really cool and not too steep in terms of the learning curve, on the other hand I would use it only for orchestra templates - as an owner of Synchron Strings Pro I tend to pull the trigger on VSL WW and Brass Pro + dearVR Monitor instead of Mir Pro 3D and other (existing) orchestra libraries. Still a bit clueless...it's a lot of money and even VSL allows licence transfer, I hate any withdrawing of a library investment (loosing time and money, I speak from experience)


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## Ben (Aug 21, 2022)

David Kudell said:


> Hello, interested in Mir Pro 3D but also I’m trying to rid my system of any non-Apple Silicon native plugins. Would you say the native version is weeks-months or more like a year?


It's on top of our project list, so I guess it's closer to "weeks-months", but I can't make any promises at this point, sorry.


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## hauspe (Aug 22, 2022)

hauspe said:


> To me that is a serious point - I am falling between the cracks, I tested the Mir Pro 3D demo a lot and it is really cool and not too steep in terms of the learning curve, on the other hand I would use it only for orchestra templates - as an owner of Synchron Strings Pro I tend to pull the trigger on VSL WW and Brass Pro + dearVR Monitor instead of Mir Pro 3D and other (existing) orchestra libraries. Still a bit clueless...it's a lot of money and even VSL allows licence transfer, I hate any withdrawing of a library investment (loosing time and money, I speak from experience)


I found the answer here: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/mir-or-synchron.125814/post-5117601, so I will go the "Synchron Pro Full" route and pass the MIR offer.


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## rrichard63 (Aug 23, 2022)

Is there a way to get the MIR Pro 3D user manual in .pdf format? I know it's embedded in Vienna Assistant, but I'd like to print parts of it. Back in the eLicenser days, you could download .pdfs of all of the manuals. Now I can't find any of them except in Vienna Assistant.

Forgive me if they're staring me in the face somewhere on the VSL website and I'm just not seeing them.


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## Dewdman42 (Aug 23, 2022)

There isn't right now. There is a print button on each button of the HTML online manual you can print that page. Maybe someday they will add an option to download the full PDF, Dietz said he would ask them about it. The manual is being worked on still.


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## Dietz (Aug 24, 2022)

Dewdman42 said:


> Maybe someday they will add an option to download the full PDF, Dietz said he would ask them about it.


I did, and I've been told that there is a new system in the works that is supposed to bring back the possibility to save and print a complete manual. No schedule for its release, though.



Dewdman42 said:


> The manual is being worked on still.


Yep. 8-)


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## Daren Audio (Aug 24, 2022)

muziksculp said:


>



Love dropping my dry libraries into MIR Pro 3D!


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## iMovieShout (Oct 12, 2022)

If ony MIR Pro 3D worked with Nuendo12. Alas, it crashes Nuendo every time


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## Dietz (Oct 12, 2022)

iMovieShout said:


> If ony MIR Pro 3D worked with Nuendo12. Alas, it crashes Nuendo every time


Get in contact with VSL's support, please. I use MIR 3D in Nuendo every day. As a matter of fact it's my main host for MIR's development. It should work quite well.


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## Virtuoso (Oct 12, 2022)

iMovieShout said:


> If ony MIR Pro 3D worked with Nuendo12. Alas, it crashes Nuendo every time


Working fine here on an Intel Mac. Are you on Windows?


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## Per Boysen (Oct 13, 2022)

I sometimes run MIR Pro 3D in VEP (like a server-based "virtual orchestra rack") and yesterday I noticed that when I bounce a midi part to audio in Cubase in order to save up CPU cycles, the resulting audio file has the MIR reverb as well. How neat! Lowering the CPU use of both the DAW, the VEP server, and the MIR 3D server. Later today I will be working in Bitwig and I can't wait to check if this works the same way. I like the idea of keeping VEP+MIR3D in the background, providing an option to pop in different DAWs to the front end.

_Edit: 
FYI Bitwig does not include the Mir hall in the "part file bounce". Happy to be doing more projects in Cubase where this Mir and also the DivisiMate work smoothly. 

Edit 2:
I'm now doing most projects in Studio One v.6 (due to its VSL integration regarding key-switch patches for VST3 instruments) and I'm happy to report that bouncing in S1 also includes the Mir hall._


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## Virtuoso (Oct 25, 2022)

I was just watching Nahre Sol's video on the Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg and my first thought was, "Wow - this would make an excellent RoomPack!" How about it?!


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## rudi (Oct 26, 2022)

And for those interested in a more in-depth look at the building and acoustic considerations:
(it includes a nice demonstration of a vibrophone being played in an anechoic chamber vs a large church around the 17mins mark!)


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## Ben (Nov 24, 2022)

MIR Pro 3D is on sale again - upgrades are discounted as well!
Check out these videos:


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## Markrs (Dec 3, 2022)

@Ben Is the free roompack with MIR3D time limited on an on-going deal?


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## Ben (Dec 3, 2022)

Markrs said:


> @Ben Is the free roompack with MIR3D time limited on an on-going deal?


No, you will always get a free roompack with your first MIR Pro 3D purchase /upgrade from MIR Pro


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## Markrs (Dec 3, 2022)

Ben said:


> No, you will always get a free roompack with your first MIR Pro 3D purchase /upgrade from MIR Pro


Thanks Ben 🙂


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## José Herring (Dec 3, 2022)

Ben said:


> MIR Pro 3D is on sale again - upgrades are discounted as well!
> Check out these videos:



This sounds fantastic. It's like you retain all the intimacy of the close mic recordings but all of a sudden there's a lot of space and the space doesn't sound artificial at all. 
It intergrates with VEPro. Seems like a great solution to run on a seperate PC using VEPro.


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