# New Composer First Gig Rate (per minute music)



## Loden Reinheim (Nov 4, 2018)

Hi, I'm a hobbyist composer and I've recently been offered a gig to compose music for multiple 1 minute trailers. I'm new to the industry and this is the first time I will be paid to make music for a commercial endeavor.

They are asking me how much I would like to be paid per 1 minute of music. I don't want to ask too much as their budget is not the biggest and I don't want to ask too little and work for less than minimum wage. 

Keeping in mind I'm an inexperienced and new composer, how much should I ask for? Doing a little research and whatnot I'm thinking around $40 per minute.

Any other advice for a composer just getting into the industry is very welcome.

Thanks, Loden


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## chillbot (Nov 4, 2018)

40 is very low. I understand you are starting out and they are low budget. But with that mentality I would ask for 100 at the minimum, which is still very low. But at least would let us all sleep at night.


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## NoamL (Nov 4, 2018)

Well for starters, don't ever undersell yourself because of your experience level or being a "hobbyist" or "amateur". The fact is, you can either do the job or you can't.  If you can, you are one of us.

I learned the hard way that when you "start" a working relationship with someone by working cheap, they either don't come back to work with you or when they do they expect the same rate!

Just for reference it might take an experienced composer 3 to 5 hours to really _produce_ a minute of music from start to final mix. Depends a lot on what kind of music it is and whether you can set up a template or premix that will work for all the cues you're asked to write. In any case, 3 to 5 hours at $100/per could be as little as $20/hour.

John Williams writes 3 minutes of music a day. I hope he charges more than $20/hr!


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 4, 2018)

Standard subscale was $100/minute... in 1981 when I graduated from college.

Having said that, to me the biggest jump is from $0 to any amount of money. That changes the entire relationship.


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## Chr!s (Nov 4, 2018)

Depends on what their budget is and what you can reasonably get out of it.

Make sure you get to keep the rights to the music your composing specifically for the trailer, especially since it's low budget.

I'll get fried for saying it: Yeah, 40 is low but can they _actually_ afford more? You may very well be faced with a "take it or leave it scenario".

If you go to Jason Graves' YouTube, he has a video about "Never Work For Free", but in it, he explains that: Let's say you wind up taking the gig at 200 per minute but your normal fee would be 500. Don't say in the contract "200 per minute" state that it is 500 per minute, _but_ they are getting a discount. His reasoning is that this plants the idea in their mind that they're getting a really good deal on something that is actually worth a lot more. 

Because the reality is, if they can't afford to pay you whatever amount you'd really like to charge, the gig is just going to go to someone else who will take it.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 5, 2018)

Chr!s said:


> I'll get fried for saying it: Yeah, 40 is low but can they _actually_ afford more? You may very well be faced with a "take it or leave it scenario".



Totally. My guess is that it's a very low end production, with probably no budget at all for music.

@Loden Reinheim if you don't have experience yet, I would take whatever you can get and use it as experience and credits. IMO, the old "per minute of music" fee is old school...does anyone still work this way? I always just work around a budget.


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## Chr!s (Nov 5, 2018)

Wolfie2112 said:


> Totally. My guess is that it's a very low end production, with probably no budget at all for music.
> 
> @Loden Reinheim if you don't have experience yet, I would take whatever you can get and use it as experience and credits. IMO, the old "per minute of music" fee is old school...does anyone still work this way? I always just work around a budget.



I think that per-minute is still standard in the video game world, generally because you can never be certain exactly how much music the project will end up with.


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## gsilbers (Nov 5, 2018)

There should be a centralized hub where we all can post rates and this way get an average and anytime any filmmaker asks or any possibility of a gig then we all point to that website where there are ranges of prices for any time of project. which there aren't that many if you think in terms of distribution. from education and corporate gigs to very high end gigs. so this way if the filmmakers are putting batman begins as a temp track then you point it out in the website... see.. that sound and that quality is about $1million. and hence don't get too picky if its not exactly like the temp 
But more important, composers can join into getting other composers to charge since more and more filmmakers will know just the price of a composer if everyone is aware of average rates... which of course can be negotiated but it would be a standard where everyone can start of and everyone knows its a paid thing.


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## MartinH. (Nov 5, 2018)

40 per minute sounds waaaaaay too low to me.


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## wst3 (Nov 6, 2018)

The established guys, when I was starting out, were getting $100 per finished minute or more. This was mostly music for advertising, as Philly was not a hot bed of music for film, and the internet had not yet been invented, so demand for content was not as high. That may sound really low, since most projects were for a 60 second spot, but there was more to it, one had to provide various versions, and lengths, and all of that was added to the total music time. And it was 1982, $30/hour was not a bad wage. Also remember that we seldom produced anything more than a demo, the track would then be recorded in a studio, by live players. If you were fortunate enough to conduct that was a separate fee, and on the clock.

Someone starting out could charge between $50 and $65 per finished minute without raising any eyebrows. We seldom got to conduct, so that was pretty much it. But if you were diligent you could climb the ladder pretty quickly.

It is all so different today, demand for content is far greater, but fees paid for that content have shrunk, and demands have increased. In many cases (short of a big budget project) we are expected to provide the finished product. I think that makes arguments for higher per-minute fees quite reasonable, but then I would, since I'm not paying them<G>!

The arguments about working for free, or for peanuts make a lot of sense to me - right up to the part where I might have to refuse work. I found an interesting (to me) solution - I take on projects at a local community theatre. It is entirely volunteer, so there is no budget, I work for free. Well, unless you include the friendships I've made, the fun I've had with no one looking over my shoulder, and yes, some exposure (not nearly enough, but then this is community theatre<G>!)

It keeps me busy when there is no paying work, it provides tremendous freedom to do things I might not otherwise do, and there are challenges to writing for live theatre that just fascinate me.


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