# Argh, my eyes, help! ...I can't take Cubase any more...



## ModalRealist (Jul 22, 2021)

Forgive the tongue-in-cheek title! Am just looking for some help in making a move that has actually become essential for my health (eye and mental!). I've used Cubase since 2001, but over time the UI and UX evolution has drifted away from whatever I initially loved about it. I now find the UX really obtuse, and I find the UI itself really 'tough on the eyes' (both hard to see, and quick to tire my vision). I do music as a hobby, and work as a product manager at a tech startup during the day, so banging my head against UX/UI I hate is really sucking out any fun I can get from being in front of the screen when doing music! Therefore, am looking to move DAW.

I realise I can't replicate Cubase (e.g. expression maps) elsewhere. Instead, I want to take the opportunity to refresh how I approach making music on the computer. I have historically been obsessed with technical detail (millions of articulations, etc. etc.), which Cubase was great for, but I want to get to a faster, more creative and less 'realism-obsessed' place. I am totally prepared for there being a big learning curve again. So prepared that I've sold almost all my existing kit and building a totally new home studio! But I would really really appreciate you lovely folks' help in getting a sense of what's out there and what might fit my use case.

So here's what I'm trying to achieve...

1. I'm ditching millions of articulations, in favour of favourite patches and super-playable stuff. I'd love to be able to load/browse (maybe audition) instruments quickly (Kontakt, Synths, Spitfire, you name it) and for there to be as much 'seamless' integration into the DAW as possible. Basically: no more templates, I'd love a DAW that will help me browse and pull up sounds.

2. Creativity-enhancing MIDI: rather than the endlessly fine-grained detail of Cubase's MIDI editing and expression maps, I'd love a DAW that presents me with a range of tools for getting bits of music into it, and then continually restructuring the music afterwards. If it could aid and abet me writing a fugue in any way (whether that's helping me see harmonic structures in my MIDI, or just making it easy to drill down and do a quick change to a single line), that would be bonus points.

3. Creativity-enhancing tools: in the same vein, I've come to the view that I'm just going to have more fun if there's stuff to 'bounce' off (as opposed to me being a totally God-like entity without who literally nothing will move or happen), so any interesting features/funky tools to help the creative process are very welcome.

4. Great hardware/controller integration: I have the money these days to invest in more expensive hardware, and I'd love to be able to control more of the creative process from that hardware rather than constantly doing weird arm movements to get to a mouse. So the better the DAW supports integrating with external control sources the better. I have an iPhone and an iPad, and am willing to consider the field when it comes to controllers (I have my eye on NI Komplete Kontrol, the Nektar stuff, and the StudioLogic 88s).

5. Streamline response and UX: I realise this is going to be so ridiculously personal, but I desperately want a DAW that feels _fun _to use, because I can't afford my hobby to feel like work! There are three main things that have sucked Cubase dry for me: the UI being really eye tiring, the UX being very obtuse [I just find all the icons etc really bad for some reason!], and finally the whole thing just feels waaaay too serious. It gives me the opposite feeling that I get when I walk into a music shop and look at all the rack units (which, for the record, is a feeling of: 'ooooh, I wonder how it might sound').

And of course, none of this would be complete without the platform question! My main DAW is a Windows machine and always will be (as it doubles as a gaming device). (I do have an M1 Mac Pro via my work, so some kind of slave setup might be possible, but it'd have to be a real clear-cut advantage to justify the faff!)

Any help or suggestions you lovely people would have would be *so* appreciated. Thank you!


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 22, 2021)

Top of mind: Studio One
Out of the box: Bitwig (not sure how this is with articulations etc. as that's prob not its thing)

Given what you wrote, if anyone recommends Reaper or Ableton, promptly put them on Ignore!


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## AEF (Jul 22, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Top of mind: Studio One
> Out of the box: Bitwig (not sure how this is with articulations etc. as that's prob not its thing)
> 
> Given what you wrote, if anyone recommends Reaper or Ableton, promptly put them on Ignore!


The OP specifically says they dont want to use articulations and expression maps.

Therefore, I recommend given everything you wrote, either Ableton or Studio One. 

Ableton with a Push 2 is the epitome of “fun” and “not serious”. It encourages you to not operate like a musician or engineer.


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## Pappaus (Jul 22, 2021)

Studio One as well - I just bought Cubase and while I can’t give a realistic A/B, I really loved what Studio One did with expression maps (S1 calls them Sound Variations) In the latest release. I have used Studio One for years an it is really easy to use. And as you are a Cubase owner, I think there still might be a good crossover deal. 

As I said, I can’t be fair to Cubase after 5 days, but it does seem like there is often an extra step needed to do things that S1 did easily. Case in point - for articulations - no need to choose attribute or Direction in S1, it does them both in the same Sound Variation. They seem to be merging nearer to each other (Cubase it’s newer drag and drop ability and S1 with the Sound Variations)


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## Pappaus (Jul 22, 2021)

Sorry to be so focused on articulations. Studio One is also nice with the presets where you can drag and drop instruments right on the timeline.


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## lux (Jul 22, 2021)

Yup, Studio One. Sometimes I have to go back to Cubase to edit old projects and my eyes melt.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 22, 2021)

AEF said:


> The OP specifically says they dont want to use articulations and expression maps.
> 
> Therefore, I recommend given everything you wrote, either Ableton or Studio One.
> 
> Ableton with a Push 2 is the epitome of “fun” and “not serious”. It encourages you to not operate like a musician or engineer.


Ah. Ok. However, Albeton is an eyesore, and they're looking for a DAW that isn't. It's a step up, visually, from Reaper, but that's not saying much.


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## AEF (Jul 22, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Ah. Ok. However, Albeton is an eyesore, and they're looking for a DAW that isn't. It's a step up, visually, from Reaper, but that's not saying much.


it has a fully rescalable interface, can be anywhere from fully dark mode to super light, and has a plethora of color choices. It offers the same if not more flexibility in these regards as S1 does. 

it also is less busy than S1, which cannot remove the header or transport or the top and bottom of the screen.

Ironically, Cubase has far more choices for UI customization than both ableton and S1.


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## AEF (Jul 22, 2021)

Just for reference, I fail to see how this is any more of an eye sore than any other DAW:


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## Symfoniq (Jul 22, 2021)

AEF said:


> Just for reference, I fail to see how this is any more of an eye sore than any other DAW:


Have you ever used Logic?


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 22, 2021)

Another useful and not-ugly DAW: Tracktion Waveform Pro.



AEF said:


> it has a fully rescalable interface, can be anywhere from fully dark mode to super light, and has a plethora of color choices. It offers the same if not more flexibility in these regards as S1 does.
> 
> it also is less busy than S1, which cannot remove the header or transport or the top and bottom of the screen.
> 
> Ironically, Cubase has far more choices for UI customization than both ableton and S1.


Like I said, Ableton is better looking than Reaper.

I wouldn't want to lose the top toolbar or transport in Studio One - but, yes, you can go full screen with it and hide the Windows bits. I also prefer to have my DAW look good and be easy to use without having to mess with colors, fonts, layouts (at least beyond clicking a button or two to show/hide things that are otherwise located in sensible places), etc.

It's a subjective thing. As a career UX designer and researcher, Ableton and, especially, Reaper, are a complete non-starter for me (not just for visuals). Everyone is different.

If the OP checks out Studio One - and maybe Waveform - and still isn't sure, then Ableton and Fruity Loops are probably up next. Along with Bitwig.


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## Nico5 (Jul 22, 2021)

I sometimes have a "look around" to check what the UI and workflow in different DAWs might look like - and that generally leads me to watching YouTube videos by creators who are competent and really like the DAW they are explaining.

Cubase is quite a beast - for better and worse. Better for how many different things you can do relatively competently. Worse for the resulting complexity and UI issues.

My not very refined and continuously evolving high level mental model how various DAW are primarily positioned currently looks like this (subject to change from any feedback that may follow this post )


For simplifying without changing the metaphor too much
Studio One
Tracktion Waveform
Cakewalk ?
Performer ?

For less linear and more assisted and idea generating music making and sound design
Acid
Bitwig
FruityLoops
Live
Reason
Renoise

For maximum tinkering and customization
Bitwig
Live combined with Max
Reaper

For a hardware tape based studio metaphor
MixBus
ProTools

For a video centric metaphor
Fairlight (inside Davinci Resolve)

For going all-in on Apple for better and worse (more a sideways move from Cubase)
Logic


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## CATDAD (Jul 22, 2021)

Studio One if you mostly want Cubase, but a little leaner. Not much to say other than it's still fairly traditional, but has streamlined that kind of workflow.

Ableton Live or Bitwig if you mostly just want a wealth of wild creative tools (and quirky MIDI tools and the like). 

Ableton Live has great hardware compatibility, and the Ableton Push 2 device seems like a well-rounded creative device though I don't have any personal experience owning one. I do know some people that do, and it's essential to their experience with how they create. I find Ableton hard on the eyes, but its creative value is there!

If you don't want to lay down a huge amount of money up front for Ableton Live Suite for access to its Max4Live features, Bitwig offers a lot for its cost (dare I say, it outpaces Ableton's Standard version!), and has lots of custom user-created tools in its equivalent, "The Grid". It's very easy to just whip up some bizarre automated modulation signals and route them to your plugins. I think Bitwig's plans are to continue in that kind of wild, modular, interconnected kind of design. 

I don't use either of them much now, but anecdotally (as of Bitwig 3 and Ableton 10, both now a version higher) I found Bitwig to be a more stable experience. Eclipsing Bitwig in market share, Ableton will be an easier pick for finding resources to assist you, but Bitwig has some dedicated Youtube channels that are quite thorough!

*In summary:* It sounds like you want to keep Cubase as Cubase, and have a different, freakier sidepiece. I'd demo both Ableton and Bitwig and see if either of them take you somewhere new. Ableton Live has a 1 month full trial, and I think Bitwig has an indefinite trial that disables saving.


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## José Herring (Jul 22, 2021)

Studio One is actually a joy to use. The only reason I haven't switched is that Cubase is still more capable. But if you're looking to switch from Cubase Studio One has like zero learning curve. Even the default key commands are mostly the same. Every once in a while I'm scratching my head with Studio One but it's just so much more intuitive and takes the best of Cubase and leaves out the worst of Cubase. 

I think a lot of people would have switched if it was surround capable.


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## AEF (Jul 22, 2021)

Symfoniq said:


> Have you ever used Logic?


logic is my main DAW. its great. but if you have a large template its unwieldy compared to Cubase or S1 bc of its folder deficiencies.


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## mussnig (Jul 22, 2021)

I would also recommend both Studio One and Ableton Live (in case you like the GUI - I think that Live's look is not for everybody but it's well thought out and you usually won't find any floating windows).

I am just starting out with Studio One but I've been looking for a long time for a new DAW and Studio One has a fast workflow, feels intuitive to use and I could really connect with it quite fast. If you create a Presonus account you can download a free 30 day demo.

Ableton Live with all it's racks and built-in effects can be a lot of fun once you get the hang of it. Also, it offers quite a lot of drag & drop functionality via it's browser. Similar to MusicLoops in Studio One you can also save tracks with midi regions by dragging them into the browser and you can then later preview the audio. Furthermore you can automap faders and knobs from your hardware to devices and racks inside Live - amazing feature if you really have a use for it. However I would definitely recommend the Suite edition since sooner or later you would want Max4Live.

I've been using Live for almost two years and I am now switching to Studio One for basically the following reasons:
1. The lack of native articulation management in Live. There are some workarounds and M4L devices but it's not going to be as good as a native solution. It seems that this isn't a priority for you though.
2. Video support in Live (on a windows machine) is terrible - you need to manually install and try out different codec packs to make it work and even then it's not really running without issues. Although also Studio One is not ideal for working with videos, it seems to me it creates less problems.
3. Navigating larger projects gets cumbersome. I would say that once your project in Live exceeds about 20-30 tracks you start wishing for some features that are standard in other DAWs.
4. No option to fully deactivate tracks and unload them from RAM.

That being said, there are a couple of unique features in Live that I'm going to miss in any other DAW.


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## Kent (Jul 22, 2021)

Symfoniq said:


> Have you ever used Logic?


Once one does, one won’t go back! 😍 

Excepting the Environment, which is stuck about 15 years in the past, Logic is perhaps the best-looking DAW.


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## Tren (Jul 22, 2021)

OP's issue is himself, not Cubase.

He's going to spend all this money and buy new software and hardware and end up in the same situation later.

Frankly, he sounds burnt out, and is just scapegoating the DAW and trying to buy himself out of a personal issue.

-----

I do own both Studio One and Cubase and I don't see a reason to use Studio One, except if I forget to bring my eLicenser for my Laptop. In that case, I have Studio One as a backup. Otherwise, I only use it for smaller pet projects to maintain familiarity and proficiency with the software.

I don't see how anyone can find Cubase "hard on the eyes," considering the contrast is pretty good and it's fairly well organized. Studio One isn't really much better, and frankly the text and controls in some area are quite small and will strain your eyes more than anything in the Cubase UI. User Experience is what it is. Every DAW has its own workflow. Objectively, we can't honestly compare without biases playing a huge role.

Totally ignoring the "obtuse" UX statement, as anyone using Cubase since 2001 (?) should be flying around the application using keyboard shortcuts with ease... Even if they're a hobbyist. Steinberg does not add or change enough in each Upgrade/Update to upset this. If the UX is "Obtuse," then that has nothing to do with Cubase itself, as this type of familiarity/long term usage generally deletes this as an issue (e.g. people who have been using REAPER for years will claim it's the easiest to use DAW on the market).


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## edhamilton (Jul 22, 2021)

Sometimes I'm stunned by the assholic responses in this forum.


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## Tren (Jul 22, 2021)

edhamilton said:


> Sometimes I'm stunned by the assholic responses in this forum.


And I am often stunned by the hyperbole.


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## greggybud (Jul 22, 2021)

ModalRealist said:


> over time the UI and UX evolution has drifted away from whatever I initially loved about it. I now find the UX really obtuse, and I find the UI itself really 'tough on the eyes' (both hard to see, and quick to tire my vision).


Could you post a few examples of what you feel is obtuse and "tough on the eyes?"

I'll assume you have extinguished all possibilities and combinations spending time in Preferences>User interface plus Metering>appearance? I guess what I'm asking is that no matter what you adjust, it's now working and it's something more foundational beyond what is in the preferences?

Since 2001 the only apparent or major aspect I can think of is the Cubase blue shades starting with SX that IMO thankfully are history. 

Or is it the skinny scroll bars?


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jul 22, 2021)

STUDIO ONE + MUSICLOOPS + SCRATCH PAD

Seriously the scratch pad alone means you can store ideas at any tempo/metre without affecting your main area and instead of 30 min song sessions with ideas everywhere, the track is just as long as your final product. Very lean n clean. 

View attachment 2021-07-23_12-49-06.mp4
*Sorry I was trying to do this really quick so the file wasn't too big*


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## AEF (Jul 22, 2021)

SimonCharlesHanna said:


> STUDIO ONE + MUSICLOOPS + SCRATCH PAD
> 
> Seriously the scratch pad alone means you can store ideas at any tempo/metre without affecting your main area and instead of 30 min song sessions with ideas everywhere, the track is just as long as your final product. Very lean n clean.
> 
> ...


I love that workflow. But since S1 has no way of working to SMPTE or SMPTE offsets, it simply isn’t ready for primetime yet.


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## vitocorleone123 (Jul 22, 2021)

AEF said:


> I love that workflow. But since S1 has no way of working to SMPTE or SMPTE offsets, it simply isn’t ready for primetime yet.


For what you do.


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## darkogav (Jul 22, 2021)

you might be able to customize the color theme. there is a fellow on YT who is using 10.5 and his midi editor looks totally different than mine.


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## dcoscina (Jul 22, 2021)

Pappaus said:


> Sorry to be so focused on articulations. Studio One is also nice with the presets where you can drag and drop instruments right on the timeline.


I’m so spoiled on presets...


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## Wirebird (Jul 22, 2021)

I gave up using Cubase years ago, when I realized that new versions will too often be redesigned from the ground up. This has been the case since early days of Cubase. It makes it frustrating to have to keep relearning the same application over and over, as well as keep getting used to a new look that may or may not appeal.
I once worked for Steinberg (I designed the GUI’s of the original Groove Agent), so I’m familiar with their policies on frequently redesigning GUI’s for marketing purposes.

The last version of Cubase that I used and occasionally still use is Cubase 6. Every now and then when I hear about a new version, I download the trial version and check it out. I recently tried Cubase 11 and great Scott almighty what a mess of a userunfriendly ugly GUI. I tried changing it, but the customization options are very limited. Also, when compared to older versions of Cubase, it’s completely redesigned. For me, upgrading to 11, GUI-wise I might as well switch to just about any other DAW.
Since this has always been and will likely continue to be the standard policy for Steinberg, I will never upgrade. It would mean subscribing to constant in my opinion completely unnecessary changes. 

For this reason I switched my main production to Ableton Live years ago. When it comes to GUI standard, Ableton is absolutely wonderful. It has looked almost exactly the same since its beginning. Every time it’s updated, they meticulously stay true to it’s original design. In combination with Push, it’s an absolute joy to use, and compared to Cubase, miles ahead when it comes to being inspiring and acting as if it’s an instrument as well as a DAW. The MIDI editing is somewhat rudimentary compared to Cubase, but you can still do everything you basically need to. It’s also highly customizable.

Ableton Live’s GUI is not pretty, but highly functional. You basically never look for anything. It’s all there. The eye candy is your plugins and Live’s GUI the arrangement, so to speak. Literally everything can easily be configured to work with MIDI controllers, including plugins. 

I’ve done huge orchestral arrangements in it, as well as recorded, produced and mixed several albums. Ableton Live is a very different beast to Cubase, so initially the learning curve can be steep. But it grows on you like no other software I’ve used. All the creative possibilities with it are just plain fun. You can easily play around with tons of ideas before committing them to an arrangement. 

Another option for you is to simply stay with the version of Cubase that you were last happy with. There’s really no reason to keep updating a DAW, if you think about it. As long as your plugins are supported, you can consider it an island to just stay on.


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## PaulieDC (Jul 22, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Top of mind: Studio One
> Out of the box: Bitwig (not sure how this is with articulations etc. as that's prob not its thing)
> 
> Given what you wrote, if anyone recommends Reaper or Ableton, promptly put them on Ignore!


Yep, Studio One. You make track presets of your instruments and articulations then just pull it into the editor when needed.

Nice Mastering session also, and FaderPort/8/16 fire right up.


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## digitallysane (Jul 23, 2021)

I tend to agree with the poster that said this is probably more of a personal issue, probably "computer burnout".

I find myself in a kind of comparable situation: hobbyist whose day job requires spending most of the time in front of a computer (I have an animation studio).

At the end of the day I might want to do some music learning (I'm a beginner in the field myself) and that means I keep staying in front of my workstation and just starting a different software (Cubase/Nuendo, which I do love  and Falcon).

Sometimes I do find myself giving up and just getting out for a walk or reading a book, but the problem is not Cubase, it's the fact that I sit too much at the computer already, moving the mouse around. 

To get around this, I'm looking to get a Yamaha MODX hardware synth and start learning/doing music while being at least some time away from the workstation.

One thing the OP might want to try is to get an actual instrument instead of changing the DAW.
A powerful instrument like the MODX/Montage, Fantom, Kronos would offer a lot fun for doing music in a self contained package.

Learning such a beast would be an interesting experience in itself (certainly different from just learning another DAW), and the UX approaches of an actual instrument should be a welcome departure from mouse driven GUIs.

And, all those come with tons of factory presets / parts / samples, so this would also cover some of the OPs requirements for a fast, inviting DAW.

Of course, an instrument can actually be something completely different from a keyboard.


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## rudi (Jul 23, 2021)

I stopped using Cubase because of the ever expanding UI... I feel like I am looking at a giant jigsaw puzzle. I cross-graded to Studio One... but:


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## ModalRealist (Jul 23, 2021)

Firstly, thanks to everyone who has replied in this thread so far - I really appreciate _all_ of your opinions!

I see there are a lot of suggestions in this thread for Studio One and Ableton, so I shall definitely check them out.

A few specific responses:



Tren said:


> OP's issue is himself, not Cubase.
> 
> He's going to spend all this money and buy new software and hardware and end up in the same situation later.
> 
> Frankly, he sounds burnt out, and is just scapegoating the DAW and trying to buy himself out of a personal issue.


Fair comment! I am burnt out - but not by music, just by computer use. Sometimes a fresh coat of paint does wonders for a room: it can jerk us out of unhelpful patterns and behaviours, and stop us fixating on the things we don't like in our immediate environment. When I started making music digitally, I was pretty broke: the only major purchases I've made over the years have been samples. Now I am in a strong financial situation, and I would like to invest in a music-making setup that is as seamless for me as possible. That's not just the DAW: it's the controllers, the desk, the chair, everything - I've just moved into my first own complete home and have the luxury of putting together a dedicated music-making space. With everything else changing, it made sense to me to consider changing the DAW too, especially since I have negative feelings towards it. 



AEF said:


> Just for reference, I fail to see how this is any more of an eye sore than any other DAW:


As a couple of you have suggested, I clearly have not pushed the colour settings as far as they can go. I have tried to create an effect like this and failed. However, it is clearly possible, so I shall try again!! Thank you for giving me hope on that front.



Nico5 said:


> My not very refined and continuously evolving high level mental model how various DAW are primarily positioned currently looks like this


I really appreciated this list to help jump off on a bit of an exploration. I have many demos now...!



SimonCharlesHanna said:


> STUDIO ONE + MUSICLOOPS + SCRATCH PAD
> 
> Seriously the scratch pad alone means you can store ideas at any tempo/metre without affecting your main area and instead of 30 min song sessions with ideas everywhere, the track is just as long as your final product. Very lean n clean.
> 
> ...


This looks pretty great! In the spirit of fairness to competitors, is there a way of achieving this kind of workflow in Cubase? @Tren @greggybud perhaps (tagging you as staunch recommenders of not moving!)



Wirebird said:


> For this reason I switched my main production to Ableton Live years ago. When it comes to GUI standard, Ableton is absolutely wonderful. It has looked almost exactly the same since its beginning. Every time it’s updated, they meticulously stay true to it’s original design. In combination with Push, it’s an absolute joy to use, and compared to Cubase, miles ahead when it comes to being inspiring and acting as if it’s an instrument as well as a DAW. The MIDI editing is somewhat rudimentary compared to Cubase, but you can still do everything you basically need to. It’s also highly customizable.


I have downloaded a demo for Ableton and will be trying it out largely on the basis of your extremely helpful and detailed post. Thank you!



digitallysane said:


> One thing the OP might want to try is to get an actual instrument instead of changing the DAW.
> A powerful instrument like the MODX/Montage, Fantom, Kronos would offer a lot fun for doing music in a self contained package.


I make lots of music away from the computer, so I don't particularly need to get my 'composing' fix on it. I _do _however like creating finished productions/records of my compositions (and I want to extend the extent to which I include more synthetic elements in my work) so I don't want to abandon the DAW world completely.


rudi said:


> I stopped using Cubase because of the ever expanding UI... I feel like I am looking at a giant jigsaw puzzle. I cross-graded to Studio One... but:


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## digitallysane (Jul 23, 2021)

ModalRealist said:


> I make lots of music away from the computer, so I don't particularly need to get my 'composing' fix on it. I _do _however like creating finished productions/records of my compositions (and I want to extend the extent to which I include more synthetic elements in my work) so I don't want to abandon the DAW world completely.


The nice thing about modern keyboard workstations is that they integrate quite nicely with the DAW (especially true for MODX/Montage, which is one of the reasons I'm looking at those in the first place. They make for a nice combined workflow: stay away from the computer when you feel like it but then get the stuff in easily and take it further).


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## kvmorgan (Jul 23, 2021)

Tren said:


> Studio One isn't really much better, and frankly the text and controls in some area are quite small and will strain your eyes more than anything in the Cubase UI.


This is true for me as well. While there is a lot I love about S1, tiny text and crowded layouts often leave these older (seasoned?) eyes squinting and hunting.

In addition to S1, I own Logic (my most frequently used linear environment), Ableton, Bitwig, and FL Studio. Both Bitwig and Ableton are wonderful creative environments. The openness of Ableton via Max is compelling, but I don’t get along with Max as a programming environment (the 
UX is far worse than any DAW I own). Bitwig, while less open-ended, has the grid, as well as flexible modulation and routing options that keep me coming back for shots of inspiration and creative playfulness. YMMV.


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## greggybud (Jul 23, 2021)

ModalRealist said:


> I clearly have not pushed the colour settings as far as they can go. I have tried to create an effect like this and failed. However, it is clearly possible, so I shall try again!! Thank you for giving me hope on that front.


Cubase is the most feature-rich DAW on the market that I know of. How you initially take all the factory defaults, including color, and customize them to your personal preferences takes time. For myself, as a beta tester, color settings is an on-going evolving process. 

Based on YouTube tutorials, I'm appalled at a lot of track colors I see. Some are default. But others have decided to make the track colors too contrasting like bright lime green, bright purple etc. IMO it makes the DAW look like a toy.

Some make the button brightness way too bright for my eyes.

Others have taken the Preferences>User Interface>Track and Mix Console Colors and it looks to me like migraine preset, especially when layering on top of the background color of the mix console.

One fairly common issue is that per factory default, the Key/Drum editors are too dark. The background for Key/Drum/Sample editors can be easily edited to whatever color and made totally white if you really wanted that.

Another common issue is User Interface>color schemes, where you are somewhat limited to darks, grays and morphing to the old Cubase blue which I personally dislike. As seen, this is the one color scheme that limits you with those tiny checkered boxes surrounding the "working" areas. There is a reason for that, however to repeat it, I would most likely misinterpret the reason.

Project>Project Colors Set up. The default colors are very limited. I downloaded a color set that has nice pastels, totaling 189 colors. I have seen color sets doubling that number, but that's too many for myself...especially when I use default colors defined with the PLE. I note a few users have shared their free color sets here.

I did not see where you posted a color example of what you feel is not working for you. There are so many different aspects it's difficult to understand your perspective, however as you said you are looking at it once again...


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## el-bo (Jul 23, 2021)

Your post 'screams' Bitwig and/or Ableton. 

These are examples of software designed from the ground-up to take computer-driven music, on it's own terms. They do have horizontal tape-like timelines, but one can do a hell of a lot of experimenting without ever going near them...especially if you use something like the 'Push', the Max4Live devices, or BW's 'Grid'.

Ableton is not many folks' idea of pretty, but it is quite sparse/stripped-down. And I'm sure one of the themes will be to your preference. Bitwig is quite a bit more cramped, but not unworkable. 

Whether or not either would become your new go-to for everything, I certainly reckon either one could be a possible candidate for the re-invigoration of your musical process


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## hoxclab (Jul 24, 2021)

If your eyes don't like Cubase I don't see how they could like Live, imo the worst, out there for looks as everything is tiny to fit onto one screen. I'd go with FL Studio. Arguably the best piano roll on the market. Mixing is very easy in FL Studio. And free updates for life. Also when you tell people you use it you get to see their true colors!


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## David Kudell (Jul 24, 2021)

If I may make a suggestion, I recently changed my monitor resolution because my wife noticed I kept hunching over in my chair to try the read the Cubase screen. While my vision is fine, some elements on screen are really tiny compared to other DAWs. 

It has made a huge difference in the readability of the interface. However, now I don’t like how I can see less of my session on my 27” screen at any one time, so I just ordered a 40” monitor so I can see more and be able to read everything.


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## gsilbers (Jul 24, 2021)

Well, this is not exactly DAW related but it has happened to me where i get big templates, some cool midi controllers and tablet and monitor controller etc and i end up being a little too far away from the actuall computer monitor and tend to have issues seeing and also getting "into" the creative process. I always feel a little disconnected. 

Wehn i was at my day job i had 2 monitor setup in a corner like an L shape and i was very close to them and coming home to do music work It felt weird. So i copied my "office" work style of working and its been great. I now switched to one very wide monitor but still have it very close. Not insaly close but more like if someone was working with excel sheets. I tend to see these composer and music prodcution setups pix that poeple posts in instagram/here etc or like hans zimmer has it and im so confused as to why poeple tend to work so far away from their computer monitor. I guess some like it that way. 

I mean, there is space for the keyboard, a midi controller, a tablet and even more space to put stuff there. and its like 3-5 feet away. some desks even have a bar for the screen next to the speakers. so speakers and monitor are at the same distance on a prodcution desk. thats a long stretch for me. 

Im not too close of course, i did try getting a large 50inch tv screen 4k and it was great but it was the oposite i had to actually move my head to see the other side of screen lol. so i went back to my "normal" way of just typing keyboard, mouse and screen right in from. between 1 and 2 feet. 

As for DAW you might look into pro tools. not only visually i find it appealing for its design but the amount of cool keycommands that are pre set are very cool. Cubase is the oposite, its way too customizable and like has 4 ways of doing the same thing. 
I use logic and its very fun to use. im quick and get ideas done fast but visually its not that different than cubase.


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## jonathanwright (Jul 24, 2021)

Cubase doesn't look great with its default settings, so I’ve taken my time to get it looking half decent…

..but it’s Cubase, so won’t save colour preferences due to a long standing bug that was reported years ago.

It resets the colours every time I restart it.

It‘s a lack of attention to detail like that, that made me quit Cubase.


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## greggybud (Jul 24, 2021)

jonathanwright said:


> Cubase doesn't look great with its default settings, so I’ve taken my time to get it looking half decent…
> 
> ..but it’s Cubase, so won’t save colour preferences due to a long standing bug that was reported years ago.
> 
> ...


Its a long standing bug yes. 

But as long as you don't save your color preferences, it should restart the same way you left it.


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## jonathanwright (Jul 24, 2021)

greggybud said:


> Its a long standing bug yes.
> 
> But as long as you don't save your color preferences, it should restart the same way you left it.


I’m afraid even that doesn’t work for me. It resets each time.


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## greggybud (Jul 24, 2021)

That's strange. What version? And are the colors resetting to factory defaults or something else?

In Safe Mode with disabled preferences, is the behavior the same?

You should be able to edit anything inside the color preferences to what you desire. But don't save those preferences as a preset. Just make the changes the way you want. 

Then, without saving the project shut it down, then reopen.

What is your result if you just made color changes, did not save them as a preset, but saved the project before shutting down?


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## jonathanwright (Jul 25, 2021)

All of my mixer and track colours stay the same, it’s just the general UI colour that resets. It switches back to the default colour I used as a base to begin with.

I’ve tried various methods of saving, not saving etc, but it’s always the same.

Thanks for your help, but I’m no longer using Cubase, so I don’t want you to waste your valuable time on me!


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## Phillip Dixon (Jul 25, 2021)

On edit page.. Do you prefer a dark background, I personally do, but l do sometimes struggle to see midi information. S1


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## devonmyles (Jul 25, 2021)

I use Nuendo 11 and I find it is rich in colour preferences and has decent options for changing appearance (although, I might be easily pleased).
Granted, out of the box (for me), it was a bit dull and needed livening up. That didn't really take that long though.
It certainly hasn't reset itself after opening and my project colour schemes haven't changed at all since I saved them.
I'm on Windows 10, if that makes any difference. (apologies if I have misunderstood colour saving preferences from the posts above)

I have it pretty how much I want it to look... Rich in colour.


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## Nico5 (Jul 25, 2021)

I haven't experienced the reported colour preferences problem either on my Win10 setup.


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## jononotbono (Jul 25, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> because my wife noticed I kept hunching over in my chair to try the read the Cubase screen.


Porn hub more like.


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## ModalRealist (Aug 2, 2021)

I was inspired by the many excellent recommendations in this thread both to re-examine Cubase with an attempt at less bias, and to demo a number of other new DAWs.

I've discovered quite a lot over the last week or so as a result. Firstly, I have wrangled Cubase into a shape that I find less intrinsically spiky (and not least in part because, to be honest, I haven't _loved _the UI in _any _DAW that I have demoed). Secondly, whilst I love some of the workflow options available in Live and Bitwig, I've concluded I'm not quite ready to make the leap to a clip-launch workflow. Thirdly, I really fell in love with Studio One's drag-and-drop workflow. However, I bounced off of its MIDI editor, and whilst I want to play more and edit MIDI less, I ultimately found myself finding a new appreciation for Cubase's MIDI editor!

However, one thing I _really _missed from Studio One was the 'scratchpad'. Luckily, some more intensive searching in VI-Control turned up this thread on getting a similar result in Cubase:


Reaktor said:


> Inspired by Studio One 3 scratchpads I came up with new workflow for Cubase 8.5 and I decided to share this idea in form of video tutorial.
> 
> 
> 
> This tutorial explains how track versioning can be used over multiple instrument tracks with group editing. Some of you may be familiar with this approach, but most likely some are not, so I hope rest of you guys also get familiar with track versioning - it speeded my workflow and allows quick inspirational moments in the middle of composing.



It's not quite as elegant as the drag-and-drop workflow in Studio One, but it fulfils a similar function to what I was after.

Though I'll be sticking with Cubase just for now, I've got notifications on for updates to Live, Bitwig and Studio One, so I'll watch their progress with interest. (And, indeed, Cubase's.)

Thanks everyone for all your help!


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## cedricm (Aug 5, 2021)

I think you'll love Studio One, which gives you a lot of power with very simple and quick workflows, such as drag & drop, and is much deeper than it looks.
In addition, there are a tons of good tutorial videos on the Presonus channels as well as YouTube in general, and (not free) Groove 3 and so on.
Alternatively, some things are much more complex than they should, and not well documented, that are way easier in other DAWs such as Ableton Live. It may be some edge case, but I found that in order to get my control surface to work a certain way, I had to define it as a keyboard and not as a control surface! Very time consuming.

On the whole, it's still an awesome day and my preferred one. Regarding your eyes, it fully scalable, at least on Windows.

If you're into instant gratification, maybe you should try Serato Studio?


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## iftekharulanam (Aug 5, 2021)

Cakewalk by Bandlab (previously known as Sonar has the most pleasing GUI in my opinion. Although I use Nuendo 11 at the moment and I love it, I find Cakewalk to be many years ahead of Cubase in terms of GUI experience. I would recommend Cakewalk, especially because it is free and it is still getting regular updates.


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## TylerW (Aug 5, 2021)

While not a replacement for Cubase, something to consider for addressing your "fun playground" would be Unify from PlugInGuru. Using this in conjunction with your DAW-of-choice provides some excellent experimentation opportunities. It is good for live noodling with the ability to create split keyboard "instruments" that can play a latched percussion loop along with a bass patch in the left hand and a lead on the right. I find that its simple process for combining stacked instruments and effects into franken-patches (think of as racks) introduces creative possibilities that would be cumbersome in Cubase. Finally its patch search is great for workflow efficiency.


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## bill5 (Aug 5, 2021)

I stopped reading the replies when they started getting snarky and sounds like the OP has a plan, but FWIW, try Mixcraft. It may not be as advanced as you want/need MIDI wise (repeat "may" - can't say), but it's strength is it's super intuitive and easy to pick up and not "busy" in the least.

That said, IMO DAWs are much more alike than they are different, generally speaking. It's amazing to me how worked up people get.


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## Syncopator (Aug 6, 2021)

ModalRealist said:


> I realise I can't replicate Cubase (e.g. expression maps) elsewhere.


That's not true anymore. Digital Performer 11 was just released with Articulation Maps that were modeled specifically after Cubase's Expression Maps. I'm pretty sure DP11 can actually load Cubase's expression maps natively.


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## 60s Pop Man (Aug 7, 2021)

Syncopator said:


> I'm pretty sure DP11 can actually load Cubase's expression maps natively.


Yes, via the Import button.

I loaded an Iconica Bass Clarinet in Cubase 11 and saved the expression map. In DP, I loaded the same Iconica instrument and then imported the expression map.


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## Luciano Rizzi (Aug 7, 2021)

ModalRealist said:


> Forgive the tongue-in-cheek title! Am just looking for some help in making a move that has actually become essential for my health (eye and mental!). I've used Cubase since 2001, but over time the UI and UX evolution has drifted away from whatever I initially loved about it. I now find the UX really obtuse, and I find the UI itself really 'tough on the eyes' (both hard to see, and quick to tire my vision). I do music as a hobby, and work as a product manager at a tech startup during the day, so banging my head against UX/UI I hate is really sucking out any fun I can get from being in front of the screen when doing music! Therefore, am looking to move DAW.
> 
> I realise I can't replicate Cubase (e.g. expression maps) elsewhere. Instead, I want to take the opportunity to refresh how I approach making music on the computer. I have historically been obsessed with technical detail (millions of articulations, etc. etc.), which Cubase was great for, but I want to get to a faster, more creative and less 'realism-obsessed' place. I am totally prepared for there being a big learning curve again. So prepared that I've sold almost all my existing kit and building a totally new home studio! But I would really really appreciate you lovely folks' help in getting a sense of what's out there and what might fit my use case.
> 
> ...


Dear ModalRealist ,
If it can help you , the following is my experience :
1) I have worked many years with Cubase 5 (32 bit) and in my opinion it was the best DAW 
, never equaled. Last Year I decided to upgrade because today it is not possible to work
with a 32 bit DAW. Thus I purchased Cubase 11 and (since the license is backward) I have
also downloaded and installed all the previous Cubase versions (8.5 + 9 + 10)
but -as you say - I found the UI and UX evolution has drifted away from whatever I initially loved 
in Cubase 5 . In other terms I was quite unable to use it !
2) At this point I started to find alternatives and I have downloaded and installed all the best DAW
"Trials" . AFTER SOME MONTHS I WAS CONFUSED WORSE THAN BEFORE !
(once you passed years using Cubase it will be very difficult to change!)
3) Then I come back to Cubase and my personal solution is that today I am quite always using the old Version 8.5 _64 bit) which has the UI and all the contents more similar to the old C5 and 
satisfactory to my needs. If I need something particular I simply load my Project on a more recent
version.
That is : the important is to use happily your DAW without loosing time and without getting crazy 
to find how to do something because the most part of our time and efforts shall be
dedicated to compose and create music and not facing endless learning curves 
(during 6 months I've tried many other DAW's I have composed NOTHING !)

Best Regards


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## Tren (Aug 22, 2021)

iftekharulanam said:


> Cakewalk by Bandlab (previously known as Sonar has the most pleasing GUI in my opinion. Although I use Nuendo 11 at the moment and I love it, I find Cakewalk to be many years ahead of Cubase in terms of GUI experience. I would recommend Cakewalk, especially because it is free and it is still getting regular updates.


The issue I have with Cakewalk is that it feels "overcompesated." The Sonar 8.x UI was extremely cluttered, but they swung the pendulum too far in the other direction.

The Application Menus are sparse, and everything has been siphoned out into a different module within the application. All modules have their own menu systems. This makes feature discovery a royal PITA. Sometimes you must hunt across modules to find what you're looking for.

I prefer a bigger top-level application menu system with search, instead. Samplitude Pro X has this. That way, anything I'd want to do, I could easily just use the search bar and it will tell me where the option is - or, in some cases, if the application can even accomplish this task (via lack of an appropriate option).

Beyond that, the UI is becoming increasingly cluttered. They keep throwing more and more tabs into the "Track Editor" area. The control bar is fine, but I'd preferred if they had taken the Transport and Loop section and pinned it to the bottom of the Window, while keeping the rest up top as a default.

Marker Management in Cakewalk is a PITA. There is no marker track and the markers on the ruler have bad contrast (at last as a default).

It doesn't have an Audio Editor, but you can only integrate one into the Tools Menu. It won't show up in the context menu for audio objects, and you have to bounce clips otherwise it will send the entire audio file to the external editor (instead of the section of audio in the clip).

I like the way it handles multi-track MIDI editing, though. With the Auto Lock, etc.

I also would recommend Cakewalk, but it feels like Logic Pro 9 without the bundled content. If you have your own stuff, it's great. I just feel like the UI has been simplified and modularized to the point of hiding much of the software away from the user. UX design is hard. There is a very thin line between "Not Enough" and "Too Much." I feel like they have gone a tad too far with Skylight, but on the surface it definitely is pleasant to look at... At least the default Mercury and Tungsten Themes.

Some of the themes I see creators on YouTube, etc. running are horrible.

To illustrate what I'm talking about:






1. The top level menu doesn't have much of anything in it.

2. There are dedicated menus in (shown here) the Arranger and the Console.

This is fine, in theory, as it makes things "context sensitive." The issue is that "context sensitive" things are invisible when that context isn't presented on the screen. So, anything you may need to do that may be possible without a certain module open "feels" impossible unless that module is open; as the functionality is not discoverable otherwise (other than going to the keyboard shortcuts settings and looking through the application's functionality in that way).

Personally, I do not like this design. It favors aesthetics over practicality and actually makes the software harder to learn to use.

I like that they have Track Icons, though, and they ship with icons for most popular Synths, Samplers, and [Virtual] Instruments in the box.

I don't like the curved corner in the new tracks they've added, though (Arranger, Articulations, etc.).

They need to implement Folder Nesting ASAP.

-----

I don't understand why PreSonus would go through the trouble to add all these scoring features to Studio One and still fail to put a Video Track in the software. Even ACID Pro has a video track, FFS. It really is kind of a basic thing, these days... even for a DAW.


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## Michael Antrum (Aug 23, 2021)

ModalRealist said:


> Fair comment! I am burnt out - but not by music, just by computer use. Sometimes a fresh coat of paint does wonders for a room: it can jerk us out of unhelpful patterns and behaviours, and stop us fixating on the things we don't like in our immediate environment. When I started making music digitally, I was pretty broke: the only major purchases I've made over the years have been samples. Now I am in a strong financial situation, and I would like to invest in a music-making setup that is as seamless for me as possible. That's not just the DAW: it's the controllers, the desk, the chair, everything - I've just moved into my first own complete home and have the luxury of putting together a dedicated music-making space. With everything else changing, it made sense to me to consider changing the DAW too, especially since I have negative feelings towards it.


Sounds like you are just a bit fed up of it all. One of the things that re-invigorated my joy of writing music was getting Staffpad.
It got me away from the computer, and now I often end up sitting at the piano with my iPad on the music stand.
It is just such a fundamentally different way of working that I found it helped me to think differently about my work.
It might be not a different DAW you need, rather a new way of working. Thinking about voicing and orchestration first, and getting great sounding audio without a lot of massaging allowed me to focus my energies on composition.
it might not be for you - but it certainly was for me…..


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## Villanao (Aug 26, 2021)

I recommend Reason. Really fun DAW! REAPER is my main host but it can be draining. With Reason I find that when I’m composing, I’m less focused on the screen and more focused on the music and on my playing.


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## chimuelo (Aug 26, 2021)

This is exactly why I went back to hardware.
Old Fogey returns to his roots and finds happiness.

My Master MIDI Controller + MIDI Devices in my Audio/MIDI Interface can do anything in Automation I need.

Even if I used a few massive 4k screens the concept just wore off on me.
Maybe return to Cubase SX1/Reaper in the future. For now I like my return to the last century.


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## Mornats (Aug 27, 2021)

I'll skip a DAW recommendation (I use Reaper but I don't think it's what you need based on your original post). 

You mentioned easily browsing instruments and I immediately thought of Komplete Kontrol. I have an S61 keyboard and I've always loved how I can browse and preview instruments directly from the keyboard. You can tweak a load of parameters from each instrument too.

I'll throw something else into the mix. Native Instruments Maschine. Few here would call it a DAW and I'd agree but for putting together pattern-based music it's a good blast. I have a Maschine MK2, a Maschine Jam (discontinued now) and I could make a track without looking at my monitor. Once you know the ecosystem you can control most things from the hardware. All of the hardware and software is integrated so I can select some drums on the Maschine, bang in a beat, switch to a piano on the Maschine then start playing that piano on the keyboard, then use the keyboard to switch back to drums and bang some more in on the Maschine. Then I can use the Jam to arrange patterns and put it together. It's good fun.


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## Tren (Aug 27, 2021)

Maschine and MPC are nice for beat making, but I wouldn't want to do my recording and mixing in either of those...


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