# Apple to use their own chips instead of Intel in 2020?



## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 2, 2018)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...an-move-from-intel-to-own-mac-chips-from-2020

I thought I posted this earlier today, but who knows where the post went.

Anyway, my gut says this portends more changes than last time when they switched from PowerPC to Intel.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 2, 2018)

See?

"As part of the larger initiative to make Macs work more like iPhones, Apple is working on a new software platform, internally dubbed Marzipan, for release as early as this year that would allow users to run iPhone and iPad apps on Macs, Bloomberg News reported last year."


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## goalie composer (Apr 2, 2018)

https://vi-control.net/community/th...g-to-custom-chips-by-2020.70339/#post-4211363


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## wcreed51 (Apr 3, 2018)

Why would anyone want their MAC to work more like an iPhone?


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## d.healey (Apr 3, 2018)

wcreed51 said:


> Why would anyone want their MAC


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## EvilDragon (Apr 3, 2018)

Guess y'all be moving to Windows then


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## Dewdman42 (Apr 3, 2018)

Honestly if Apple does make that foolish move then yes I think that is going to rattle a lot of cages with high end performance users in the art field. But let’s wait and see what happens. Who knows maybe there are some new chips coming out that will be fast as ever.


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## gsilbers (Apr 3, 2018)

https://ask.audio/articles/apple-dropping-intel-chips-what-this-might-mean-for-mac-musicians


Another article but based on audio.

But yes... yet another transition. Forced upgrade and the notion that it will be beneficial for us. 

IMO it’s a way for Apple not have to be compared to similar spec’ed pcs priced at much lower cost.
And a way to iosificate the Mac OS since Apple is clearly after that dumbed down iPhone money.

But Now it makes more sense why they haven’t updated the Mac Pro and only have updated the iMac to only be a better spec version of the old ones.
Coming out w a whole new line of Mac Pro in the middle of a chip transition sound rough.

Damn it.. is I really need to learn Cubase


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## Wunderhorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Let's wait and see... the proof will be in the pudding.
Will they offer machines that are:
1) Fast and powerful
2) Easy enough to expand and to service
3) Is there going to be a new modular Mac Pro coming?
If yes, great, if no, I will have to get a Windows workstation and it might mean I have to switch from Logic to Cubase.
For my other work with illustration, 3D etc. my current Mac Pro (2013) is already waaaaaay too slow.


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## EvilDragon (Apr 3, 2018)

As if Cubase is the only possible DAW to transition to...


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## EvilDragon (Apr 3, 2018)

Haha. 


Gotta live up to my name sometime.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 3, 2018)

wcreed51 said:


> Why would anyone want their MAC to work more like an iPhone?



It's more the other way around.

And I'd like my Mac to have access to all the features on my iPhone - the camera, accelerometer, GPS, and whatever I've left off.

You can sort of do most of that already with Handoff and Continuity (or using DropCopy to copy files over if like me your Mac Pro's Bluetooth is too old), but Marzipan sounds useful.


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## Jay Panikkar (Apr 3, 2018)

This is actually a good thing. 

Intel hasn't come up with a proper new architecture for many years, they're milking their existing architecture for all its worth. As a consequence of this, their new chips are hit-or-miss with absurd temps and inconsistent clock speeds.


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## tmhuud (Apr 3, 2018)

I think its a brilliant idea.


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## Saxer (Apr 3, 2018)

I hope the architecture of the new chips doesn't mean all apps and plugins has to be rewritten again. Waiting for everything converted from IBM/Motorola to Intel was a nightmare. Same with 32 to 64 bit. Both transitions took several years. I'm too old for that shit again!


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## Quasar (Apr 3, 2018)

I don't care what Apple does, and completely agree with Rick Beato:


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## EvilDragon (Apr 4, 2018)

Jay Panikkar said:


> Intel hasn't come up with a proper new architecture for many years



That's because a new architecture isn't really necessary.


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## EvilDragon (Apr 4, 2018)

heisenberg said:


> Windows 10 dropped support for the ATOM processor last year or so I read.



Only the old Clover Trail. Still works on newer Atoms.


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## heisenberg (Apr 4, 2018)

EvilDragon said:


> Only the old Clover Trail. Still works on newer Atoms.



Thanks for the clarification.


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## heisenberg (Apr 4, 2018)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> See?
> 
> "As part of the larger initiative to make Macs work more like iPhones, Apple is working on a new software platform, internally dubbed Marzipan, for release as early as this year that would allow users to run iPhone and iPad apps on Macs, Bloomberg News reported last year."



Well there we go, we have the contemporary equivalent of Apple's Carbon environment when they transitioned from MacOS Classic to OSX that obsoleted software in future versions of the OS. If you have avoided something like Adobe Cloud and stayed on Adobe CS6, that will come to an unceremonious end. Adobe's Cloud pricing BTW is going up in April, anywhere from 6 to 20% depending on your subscription plan. I think the new pricing for full Adobe cloud for a year will be $635.88 USD going forward. More if you have a business seat.


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## Vik (Apr 4, 2018)

This could turn out really good. They could design the chips from the ground to work in a modular environment, where every Apple unit (phone, computer, iPad, Apple-TV) could serve as processing power for all the units. 
The end result could be: 
If you need more power on your laptop, hook it up with your phone. 
If you have a modular Mac which is 4-core and need more, buy more cores and insert them in the Mac or connect them to the Mac in another way. 
If you need to travel to a studio and bring your Logic projects, you could bring them on your phone and run Logic (full version) also from the phone, connected to a screen in the studio.
Instead of brining a laptop with you, you could bring a phone or tablet anywhere, and run full versions of any software you want - displayed on local screens. And so on. 
This should have happened many years ago.


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## d.healey (Apr 4, 2018)

Vik said:


> This could turn out really good. They could design the chips from the ground to work in a modular environment, where every Apple unit (phone, computer, iPad, Apple-TV) could serve as processing power for all the units.
> The end result could be:
> If you need more power on your laptop, hook it up with your phone.
> If you have a modular Mac which is 4-core and need more, buy more cores and insert them in the Mac or connect them to the Mac in another way.
> ...


I don't think Apple would implement any design that allowed the user to upgrade their system without paying Apple.


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## gregh (Apr 4, 2018)

all Apple are looking for is a way to make the old stuff obsolete so they can sell more and make more money. That's it.


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## Vik (Apr 4, 2018)

Well, I don't mind paying Apple for their hardware. Most likely, the kind of functions I describe would require new hardware, and maybe a new generation of chips. What I don't like, of course, is when the hardware is overpriced and when companies speculate in moves that somehow forces users to upgrade.


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## gregh (Apr 4, 2018)

Vik said:


> Well, I don't mind paying Apple for their hardware. Most likely, the kind of functions I describe would require new hardware, and maybe a new generation of chips. What I don't like, of course, is when the hardware is overpriced and when companies speculate in moves that somehow forces users to upgrade.


As far as I know there is no need to change hardware for interoperablity, they could make tablets with the existing hardware as is the case with Windows, phones is also possible as would have been the case with Windows but Microsoft got out of that business because of the impossibility of getting market share - basically developing windows phones had too high an opportunity cost. But the tech exists now. All the other guff is just an excuse to make more money. They'll probably do new chargers with new cables etc etc


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## Vik (Apr 4, 2018)

gregh said:


> As far as I know there is no need to change hardware for interoperablity, they could make tablets with the existing hardware as is the case with Windows, phones is also possible as would have been the case with Windows but Microsoft got out of that business because of the impossibility of getting market share - basically developing windows phones had too high an opportunity cost. But the tech exists now. All the other guff is just an excuse to make more money. They'll probably do new chargers with new cables etc etc


Apple's computers and iOs devices uses different chips. If they want to be able to have total interoperability, I guess they don't want to keep coding two versions of Numbers, Pages, Logic, their OS and so on. And we already have phones that have more computing power than many computers. 

So - if they want to write one version of eg Logic, which runs both on Macs and iPads etc, these platform needs to rely on the same chips. Therefore, they need to change hardware in at least one of them. They can't just release new software or a new MacOS which allows all this. 

But they may gradually skip support for Intel chips, and have all their products, one by one, rely on an enhanced version of iOs, running on the same kind of chips iOs devices run use now, and create Macs/Mac Minis, MBPs etc which are relying on the same chips. I think they'll do that, or create a new generation chips which will replace the existing type of chips both in Macs and iOs devices. 

From one of the links: 
"What gives extra fuel to the fire however is the accompanying news that Apple has been working on a way to allow iOS apps to run natively on the Mac, a feature that is reported to be coming in iOS 12 and OS X 10.14. Seen in this context, shifting Macs - likely beginning with MacBooks - onto Apple’s own silicon would make any such development much smoother. The flip side of course is that you have to ask what happens to Intel-optimized apps with years of development behind them. Can NI’s vast software stable, Cubase, Pro Tools, Waves and hundreds of other products be ported over without massive disruption? "

Here's what Apple could do: announce that up and running versions of Logic, FCP etc already run on the new chips - the same days those chips and the devices using them are announced. This would of course annoy many Mac users (because they have to rewrite their DAWs etc), but it could also increase Logic's and FCP's market share, since some users would want new Apple devices, and for a while, maybe Apple's own apps would be the only ones than would run on that hardware/OS.


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## SoNowWhat? (Apr 4, 2018)

Hmmm. Marzipan you say? Did anyone else think this?...







...just me then.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 4, 2018)

gregh said:


> all Apple are looking for is a way to make the old stuff obsolete so they can sell more and make more money. That's it.



In my opinion that's not *all* they're looking for. But that does happen, no question.

Look, if they make the old stuff obsolete by coming out with something new that's compelling, I'm all for that. Replacing perfectly good ports (e.g. FireWire) with the latest stupid thing that doesn't make any difference... no.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 5, 2018)

Saxer said:


> I hope the architecture of the new chips doesn't mean all apps and plugins has to be rewritten again. Waiting for everything converted from IBM/Motorola to Intel was a nightmare. Same with 32 to 64 bit. Both transitions took several years. I'm too old for that shit again!


Totally.


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## Vik (Apr 5, 2018)

Quasar said:


> I don't care what Apple does, and completely agree with Rick Beato:



This guy has been making many interesting videos, but even if I think Apple is behind where they should have been in several areas (update the Mac Pro line, MBPs with more RAM, new Mac Minis, iOs based computers, Logic development in the areas many of us want to see, like score/compositional stuff etc), I think Rick Beato's criticism against Apple/iTunes to some degree is based on invalid arguments.


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## gregh (Apr 5, 2018)

Vik said:


> I think Rick Beato's criticism against Apple/iTunes to some degree is based on invalid arguments.



how so? I think his point about feature bloat is applicable across a lot of software now, not just with Apple


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## LinusW (Apr 5, 2018)

I've said this for years. MacBook will merge with iPad Pro and run on ARM. MacBook Pro and Mac Pro will stay on Intel for workstation use. A new Mac mini and low end iMacs will run on ARM, middle section iMac and iMac Pro on Intel.
That's why they replaced MacBook Air with a slow MacBook based on Core M. That's why the iPhone is much faster than a MacBook. 
http://bgr.com/2017/09/14/iphone-x-vs-iphone-8-a11-bionic-benchmarks-macbook-pro/
This way, the performance difference charts will be more impressing when comparing a new ARM MacBook to the older Intel Core M MacBook.
ARM vs Intel x64 is about performance and battery life for general computers - not professional desktop Macs.

Speaking of apps, all apps in App Store are Bitcode since 2015. https://thenextweb.com/apple/2015/0...s-at-wwdc-that-nobodys-talking-about-bitcode/

MacOS is cross-platform by design, as Steve Jobs said when he announced the Intel transition. This time around, we can expect that apps have been tested on ARM-Macs since 2015. So every app in the App Store will be working from day 1.
Even Logic and Final Cut Pro. Graphics and video are still relying on GPU acceleration and that won't change when changing the CPU architecture. The frameworks are the same.

But as I said, it probably won't matter to pro users. We'd continue running Intel optimized synth plugins on our Intel x64 Macs, running Windows in virtual machines.


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## VinRice (Apr 5, 2018)

This has been on the cards for years. Apple has got rather good at designing their own chips. It's not about running iPhone apps on the computer - that's bollocks. OSX is processor agnostic; its a flick of a switch in the Xcode compiler. It's about not being dependent on the same Intel chips as everybody else. Bloomberg are rubbish at Apple reporting by the way, take everything with a pinch of salt.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 5, 2018)

iOS is part of OS X, from what I understand.

But the reports about Marzipan - and yes, it does bother me that I'm being played by actually writing that ridiculousness  - aren't just on Bloomberg. Running iOS apps on a Mac probably isn't what this is all about, but it does sound like it's happening.

Interesting that the iPhone X's processor is more powerful than the MacBook Pro's. I hadn't heard that.

And yet I'm happier with my 2014 iPhone 6 Plus and upgraded 2009 Mac Pro than I would be with an iPhone X.


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## NYC Composer (Apr 6, 2018)

I just bought a Mophie Juice pack for my iPhone 6, which has kept me from screaming and throwing the 6 at a wall in pure frustration. I was always running to an outlet-the battery life sucks. I got really tired of seeing the battery at 12%-now mine is at 100% all day. I charge it at night, done- regardless of what I do on the phone.


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## Cinebient (Apr 6, 2018)

Don´t believe everything people see in their crystal ball.
However, when i see a lot bugs today and unoptimized tools on mac and windows and small companies like Moog doesn´t bother with mac and windows and bring the best emulation of a synth out there for iOS exclusive only and it runs the code on my old phone i´m not sure if that would be all so bad (for me personally at least).
I still would prefer if they just let me run my apps on my mac.
If Intel holds them back i say ditch them.
Mac is great but also bloated and iOS is sometimes even better, also for music tools.
That apps are a fraction of the price and have the same quality is a good side effect of course for some people.
I mean no one is forced to use it or upgrade and everything will be fine.
I see it more that it could force independent developers for even more innovation without the terrible process of supporting old OS, 1000 hardware configurations etc etc. And in terms of GUI it already is lightyears behind most desktop tools.
Piracy is another thing not relevant in iOS yet as well that you can install your license on as many devices as you want if they bound to your account.


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## gsilbers (Apr 6, 2018)

Well, from the other thread , the new mac pros will be coming in 2019... which might be due to the new chip.
Just a maybe of course.

But I’m on the rick beato side. A lot of apps and the finder have become stupid. Adapter galore and changing stuff for upgrades is just too much.

Oddly enough Logic Pro has become a better app. Some missing stuff but overall nice. Better than fcp, finder and iTunes for sure. 

Which sucks for me as that’s the only reasons sticking to macs. 

I need to learn how to do those hackingtosh correctly damn it. 
Although that might something that would end as well since those where based on intel (I think).

It’s obvious apples reasoning is to stray away from intel amd so folks cannot compare Apple to Apple (intel) and rather will have a harder time comparing benchmarks vs price vs apps and not have to rely on intel product cycles shared w other pc companies. 
Since Apple has become better at chips it gives them a better opportunity.
This time around I might jumping ship. As other have mentioned... that ibm to intel transition and 32 to 64 transition... just too much.


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## VinRice (Apr 6, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> Better than fcp



Actually FCP is a fabulous application. Incidentally it's not widely known but Apple recently set up a Pro-Apps group in the Spaceship to focus better on pro users requirements and co-ordinate with the Pro iMac and Mac groups. We are starting to some of the benefits of that now with quicker pro-orientated updates.


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## jonnybutter (Apr 6, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> Oddly enough Logic Pro has become a better app



I complain, but this is true


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## gsilbers (Apr 7, 2018)

VinRice said:


> Actually FCP is a fabulous application. Incidentally it's not widely known but Apple recently set up a Pro-Apps group in the Spaceship to focus better on pro users requirements and co-ordinate with the Pro iMac and Mac groups. We are starting to some of the benefits of that now with quicker pro-orientated updates.



i just keep reading complaints and a lot of poeple jumped ship towards premiere. not sure if since then maybe it got better. ive been using it and found a few things to be very annoying, not that premiere is all that much better either.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Apr 7, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> I just bought a Mophie Juice pack for my iPhone 6, which has kept me from screaming and throwing the 6 at a wall in pure frustration. I was always running to an outlet-the battery life sucks. I got really tired of seeing the battery at 12%-now mine is at 100% all day. I charge it at night, done- regardless of what I do on the phone.



You need a new battery. 

My 6 Plus’ battery is usually at 65% at the end of the day, and it’s almost 3-1/2 years old. Yeah the Plus has room for a larger battery, but not *that* much larger. Your symptoms aren’t normal.


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## jonnybutter (Apr 7, 2018)

gsilbers said:


> i just keep reading complaints and a lot of poeple jumped ship towards premiere. not sure if since then maybe it got better. ive been using it and found a few things to be very annoying, not that premiere is all that much better either.




It has gotten much better. FCP got rewritten several years ago seemingly without a thought about how its user base worked. Hilariously obtuse. Many many switched to Premiere (I did too for a while), which had also recently gotten a lot better - so, good timing for Adobe. But the FCP team went back and fixed just about all the problems. FCP is really good now, and I prefer it to Premiere.


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