# How to make an expression map in Dorico



## ed buller (Oct 28, 2022)

*How to make an expression map:*

This is a multi stage process.

The goal is to be able to use a Symbol or text above Notes to change a patch in your sampler.

Depending on your computer chops and general mood you might need to set aside some time to do this. Maybe get some groceries in and take the phone off the hook. Plan on it taking anywhere from 5 mins to five months !

Before we start please repeat after me:

*IT DOES NOT WORK BECAUSE I MADE A MISTAKE !*

As annoying as it is to admit it's also rather useful to acknowledge this. You can proceed safe in the certainty that if you do this correctly IT WILL WORK !

stage1


Go to WRITE/Library/Playing Techniques :

this should appear: If it doesn't you have already gone wrong !





Top left is category . Select string. At the bottom left click on the plus button . It will say "new playing technique" . Fill this in. Let's go for "jete".....fast bowing. Read through the various dialog boxes. Basically you are making either a text or graphic to put over either one note or several and linking it to a playback technique. All on this page.

Lets go for text

Fill in Type Text. Write "jete" in the next box . Pick the font in the next drop down
fill in "popover text".

Select playback technique !

Now you haven't made this yet. This is Dorico being thorough . It imagines a situation where in the score you might want to boast about having all these fancy techniques but in your meagre sample library they will all be using "short strings" . But that's not us.

So Click on "edit" Next to "playback Technique"

and now we see this:






Again ...if you don't ......you HAVE made a mistake.

Now we do the same

Technique ( top left ) will be "length"

bottom left , click on the plus and make a new technique called Jete. This is what talks to the samples and you will need it. If you didn't have more than one sample it's here that you'd use "short string"

Now save and go back to "playing techniques to make sure they are connected.

It should look like this. Again..if it doesn't you have made a mistake:






So Now we have created a popover and linked it to a playing technique .

Have a rest:

Now Clik on the PLAY tab at the top and move over to the midi window.


We are now going to link this to a sample .

Library/Expression maps






Now make sure on the left hand side we are on the right instrument . Violins 1.


Same stuff.Click on the plus "add base switch"

Select jete from the list. If It's not there something has gone wrong and you need to find out what !

Once selected : Assign it to the right sound:






Also here you can add the CC data. If ( like me ) it's coming from a different library specify what midi channel. ( remember that if you do this for one you MUST do it for all) . And select key switch or program .

Now the last and VITAL part. Once saved this "expresion map data" must be loaded in the correct midi slot.






select the "cog" under the correct VST






and insert your expression map in the correct port . At that point this should all work. You need to save The endpoint and it will always be there. I can't lie. This is fiddly but it does work and it's so worth it. The realism you get from freeing up all your samples and doing your best to balance them is soooooooo liberating . As once it's done....it's done and you can just write

best

ed


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## DaddyO (Oct 28, 2022)

Ed, you are so helpful and generous with stuff like this. Thanks.


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## Bollen (Oct 28, 2022)

Although I don't use EMs, I will be sending everyone that asks here! 💕


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## wcreed51 (Oct 28, 2022)

Thanks Ed!

How granular do you make you templates? It's temping to do one per insturment, to make it easier to tinker with during composition.


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## ennbr (Oct 28, 2022)

wcreed51 said:


> How granular do you make you templates? It's temping to do one per insturment, to make it easier to tinker with during composition.


for my Dorico Playback Templates I use standard Expression Maps so only 1 instrument is setup. However I'm doing one now for Musio and that requires I use individual instruments and using channel switching to change articulations. 

Dorico with all it's features still does not have delays that can be setup so kind of hard to mix sample libs from different companies


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## Jett Hitt (Oct 28, 2022)

In addition to groceries, I recommend some booze and a .357 Magnum. You'll need both before you're done.


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## synergy543 (Oct 28, 2022)

Ed, thank you so much for doing this! I have to dash off to work but will go over this in detail when I return. And Jeff, I'm well-stocked, but psyched-up and ready to work my way through this all! To infinity and the other side!


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## ed buller (Oct 28, 2022)

A very useful addition is that in the other screen showing midi data you will see the name change:






You can see "B spicc" under the articulation in the lower screen. If this isn't changing...you've done something wrong too !

best

e


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## PhilA (Nov 7, 2022)

This is probably a silly beginner question. If I’m mapping an already existing technique let’s say Flautando (for Spitfires sake) do I need to do the first steps in this tutorial as the technique is already listed?


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## ed buller (Nov 7, 2022)

PhilA said:


> This is probably a silly beginner question. If I’m mapping an already existing technique let’s say Flautando (for Spitfires sake) do I need to do the first steps in this tutorial as the technique is already listed?


Not a silly question at all. I'd first go to the expression map section and see if "flautando" is there. If so assign it and work backwards. Go Back to the EDIT page and just do a popover. Shift P Type flau and it should appear. Assign it to some notes and check in the edit window you can see it as an articulation then your all set

best

e


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## ChrisHarrison (Nov 7, 2022)

I’m using only spitfire orchestra. Does this work okay with the sample delay issue? It’s essentially stopped me from going all the way in and just using noteperformer… which is fine. But it would be nice for dorico to talk to my super nice expensive sounds


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## PhilA (Nov 10, 2022)

After a little playing about I think this is making good sense now. Thanks so much to Ed for his explanation. This weekend I’m going to do some of my solo strings (maybe the 8dio deep quartet even with it’s expressive only articulation set (which suits me a lot)) and make myself a chamber/piano template. Wish me luck.


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## swinkler (Nov 10, 2022)

@ed buller You've convinced me to work on a master template in hopes of minimizing if not eliminating my need to export/import to a DAW. Very exciting prospect to me. 
I'm starting with Dorico's film template and will add an instrument here and there. But for now I'm starting with woodwinds. I'm starting out with VSL/SE PLUS woodwinds which already have expression maps, but trills aren't correct. That is the trill sample isn't triggered. There's a Trill (half-step) and Trill (whole step) expression and playback technique defined but only a 'Trill Key' playing technique defined in Winds. 
Is this a situation where you'd likely use a hidden text to trigger the correct trill based on context and have Dorico ignore generating a trill with multiple notes?


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## ed buller (Nov 10, 2022)

swinkler said:


> @ed buller You've convinced me to work on a master template in hopes of minimizing if not eliminating my need to export/import to a DAW. Very exciting prospect to me.
> I'm starting with Dorico's film template and will add an instrument here and there. But for now I'm starting with woodwinds. I'm starting out with VSL/SE PLUS woodwinds which already have expression maps, but trills aren't correct. That is the trill sample isn't triggered. There's a Trill (half-step) and Trill (whole step) expression and playback technique defined but only a 'Trill Key' playing technique defined in Winds.
> Is this a situation where you'd likely use a hidden text to trigger the correct trill based on context and have Dorico ignore generating a trill with multiple notes?


Dorico has both semitone and whole tone trill graphics. You see listed in the playing techniques in the expression maps both. It should be easy to map these

best

e


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## BlackDorito (Nov 11, 2022)

Inspired by @ed buller, I am bringing over a Sibelius project to Dorico 4. Gulp, here's what I had to do to add a simple Program Change to load the Electric Piano patch on a staff representing the software Korg M1 VI. [In Sibelius this was a simple text "~B0,0,11" on the staff line ... badda bing, done] BTW, the following pain could be avoided if there was a Pgm Change lane in the key editor (.. maybe I just missed it). This parallels what Ed said in the initial post, but it's WAY too much work for such a simple operation:

1) go to Playing Techniques dialog - created 'XX-M1-Pgm-0-11' technique. On the staff it will be displayed as 'E Pno 1'

2) continue in that dialog to create the corresponding Playback Technique

3) I've now created the techniques with ugly names (XX-...) so I can clearly see the ones I've created. Creating 100's of these things is going to clutter up my Common lists like crazy

4) go to the Expression Map editor, duplicate the supplied 'CC11 Dynamics' map, rename it 'XX-M1' .. this is now going to be my ever-growing M1 expression map. Add the newly created 'XX-M1-Pgm-0-11' playing technique as an 'Add-on' and add two actions to create the patch change:






5) go to Play mode, open up the Endpoint dialog for the M1 instrument and set the Expression Map to 'XX-M1'

There .. now it's working fine. Hope I don't need to switch to any other patches (the M1 has thousands) .. I'd have to do this all over again. I hope I'm a doofus who just missed the Pgm Change track lane .. but on the face of it, anyone coming over from Sibelius who has lots of ~C, ~P, ~N, ~B, etc. throughout their score is going to face serious headwinds. You might say: go find fully-fleshed out Expression Maps for your instruments and use those. My instruments are NI saxes, Tenor Colossus, BoT, Norrland Trpt, EZ Drums, Piano in Blue, Orange Tree Guitar, Korg M1, Straight Ahead Bass, Spitfire SCS .. and AFAIK there is hardly anything out there.

Ah well, it will be a long journey. Luckily I can add the standard disclaimer: DSHBEH. [Daniel Spreadbury has been extremely helpful]


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## swinkler (Nov 11, 2022)

ed buller said:


> Dorico has both semitone and whole tone trill graphics. You see listed in the playing techniques in the expression maps both. It should be easy to map these
> 
> best
> 
> e


I pretty much get what you're saying though I couldn't find the glyph I expected to find. I think with trills in particular it's tricky because in some circumstances the tr with the flat above is a semitone, but in other circumstances it might be the tr with the natural sign above. Likewise with whole step you've got the natural and sharp above the tr. Otherwise I found a combination WT and 1/2T mark I've associated with the appropriate sample. Maybe I'm overthinking this? 
I will say it is a little cumbersome, but already I'm pleased with the results and I'm just barely through the woodwinds. 

Side Note: I don't know about others but I did have to change the SE Syn'zd secondary volume from CC2 to CC1. Any other VSL users have to modify the provided controls?


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## VSTHero (Nov 19, 2022)

I was curious how you handle the note overlap needed for legato transitions. I guess you could program sustain pedal notation to control the CC and hide it in the score; but seems like to might be an approach that’s more automatic.


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## ed buller (Nov 19, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> I was curious how you handle the note overlap needed for legato transitions. I guess you could program sustain pedal notation to control the CC and hide it in the score; but seems like to might be an approach that’s more automatic.


if you use the legato command in the expression maps ( which is automatically triggered by slurs ) the notes are extended to trigger the legato

best

e


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## VSTHero (Nov 19, 2022)

ed buller said:


> if you use the legato command in the expression maps ( which is automatically triggered by slurs ) the notes are extended to trigger the legato
> 
> best
> 
> e


That's brilliant, thanks Ed. I'm seeing how far I can get remapping presets with the Elements edition to get CS libraries setup.


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## VSTHero (Nov 19, 2022)

Ended up upgrading with the current sale haha, wasn't really possible to setup with the Elements edition, to many functions not available.


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## Piotrek K. (Nov 19, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> Ended up upgrading with the current sale haha, wasn't really possible to setup with the Elements edition, to many functions not available.



Yep, elements has this odd issue, you can create new playback technique, but you can't assign it to symbol or text because that feature is PRO only. So in essence you can't use it. They should cut out playing techniques menu in Elements as it is confusing. Or maybe I'm missing something?


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## VSTHero (Nov 19, 2022)

Piotrek K. said:


> Piotrek K. said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, elements has this odd issue, you can create new playback technique, but you can't assign it to symbol or text because that feature is PRO only. So in essence you can't use it. They should cut out playing techniques menu in Elements as it is confusing. Or maybe I'm missing something?


That’s what I found. You can work around by reassigning pre-existing ones up to a point, but not enough I think to be effective. What I find difficult is it isn’t always clear how various techniques are programmed/interpreted by Dorico. I spent a good amount of time figuring out how staccato worked (note duration percentages that are adjustable). It’s a great engine but the UI is very opaque - I’m going to chip away at it slowly


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## ed buller (Nov 19, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> I spent a good amount of time figuring out how staccato worked (note duration percentages that are adjustable). It’s a great engine but the UI is very opaque - I’m going to chip away at it slowly


that's a default setting. But you can make it just selected a staccato patch in your samples. The same with accents . If you do nothing it will just make the note louder...or...you can assign it to a louder sample

best

e


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## VSTHero (Nov 19, 2022)

ed buller said:


> that's a default setting. But you can make it just selected a staccato patch in your samples. The same with accents . If you do nothing it will just make the note louder...or...you can assign it to a louder sample
> 
> best
> 
> e


Thanks Ed. I’ll spend some more time watching those videos you posted on the other thread. So far I’ve got CS2 and CSW working alright for basic articulations using low latency legato option. Hoping to be able to switch between NP and CS for quick mock-ups


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## swinkler (Nov 19, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> Thanks Ed. I’ll spend some more time watching those videos you posted on the other thread. So far I’ve got CS2 and CSW working alright for basic articulations using low latency legato option. Hoping to be able to switch between NP and CS for quick mock-ups


I’m curious what you mean by switching between NP and CS?


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## VSTHero (Nov 19, 2022)

swinkler said:


> I’m curious what you mean by switching between NP and CS?


writing in Noteperformer and then switching to the cinematic studio libraries; although with this setup you could really just write directly with your main libraries. I’m a bit low on RAM currently (2017 MacBook) so Noteperformer is really helpful.


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## swinkler (Nov 19, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> writing in Noteperformer and then switching to the cinematic studio libraries; although with this setup you could really just write directly with your main libraries. I’m a bit low on RAM currently (2017 MacBook) so Noteperformer is really helpful.


Thatt to s what I thought and I had the same thought for the same reason. For me it’s probably CPU that’s my limiting factor and have to set latency pretty high. I do wonder about CC data though. A problem not unlike exporting to a DAW


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## ed buller (Nov 20, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> writing in Noteperformer and then switching to the cinematic studio libraries; although with this setup you could really just write directly with your main libraries. I’m a bit low on RAM currently (2017 MacBook) so Noteperformer is really helpful.


ahh...VSL ensemble pro really helps. Dorioc runs much better through this

best

e


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## PhilA (Nov 20, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> Thanks Ed. I’ll spend some more time watching those videos you posted on the other thread. So far I’ve got CS2 and CSW working alright for basic articulations using low latency legato option. Hoping to be able to switch between NP and CS for quick mock-ups


Ooo have I missed some videos? Which thread are they on? Thanks 😁


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## ed buller (Nov 20, 2022)

PhilA said:


> Ooo have I missed some videos? Which thread are they on? Thanks 😁





https://www.youtube.com/@dorico/videos



best


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## VSTHero (Nov 20, 2022)

swinkler said:


> Thatt to s what I thought and I had the same thought for the same reason. For me it’s probably CPU that’s my limiting factor and have to set latency pretty high. I do wonder about CC data though. A problem not unlike exporting to a DAW


You can customize how it handles CC data for each map I believe - setting certain limits and initial values etc. It's going to take some time for me to figure out how the humanization settings and dynamic curves are working with my libraries (dorico has a lot percentage settings for these features for global playback - trying to decide if I should just turn off the auto humanization or if it can work well with CS -is it noticeable if it crosses dynamic layers?), but what's nice is once its setup - you don't have to do it again. You can also change the auto cc values for all the basic dynamic markings per map/instrument. Also the classification of note length durations has implications I haven't fully grasped yet. I'm thinking it might be really helpful for switching samples for runs. CSW also has several staccato options so trying to think how to make the most of those but that's not essential to actually getting some good writing done. Overall though, it's not as daunting a project as I first imagined since I'm using fairly identically setup libraries. A bit more complex when you're integrating a wide range of libraries from different developers (for more amazing results).


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 20, 2022)

It still kind of blows my mind that Dorico has never done an instructional video for expression maps. Some of their videos are really fantastic and top quality, but with expression maps, you have to wade through lengthy livestreams. It is very cumbersome. John Barron is constantly interrupted with questions and technical difficulties, and he often doesn't return to the thought that was interrupted. This is something that really needs addressing @Daniel S.


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## VSTHero (Nov 20, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> It still kind of blows my mind that Dorico has never done an instructional video for expression maps. Some of their videos are really fantastic and top quality, but with expression maps, you have to wade through lengthy livestreams. It is very cumbersome. John Barron is constantly interrupted with questions and technical difficulties, and he often doesn't return to the thought that was interrupted. This is something that really needs addressing @Daniel S.


There is one non-livestream, but it's pretty short - it does walk through some of the basics; it helped me out a bit but left a lot of questions (the written documentation wasn't really usable unfortunately - we need to give copy writers more respect and time); sometimes it's just not quite clear how the hierarchy of interactions is setup, but gave me enough to start testing it to see how it reacted. Need to tap into the joy of tinkering / pulling something apart and building again. But this is such a good feature better tutorials and clarity would probably increase sales and usage - I'd probably not have even tried this if Ed hadn't been posting his examples, and yet it's so helpful for us score/notation focused composers. Worth the time either way!


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## ennbr (Nov 20, 2022)

Everyone seems to focus on Expression Maps but that's only part of the picture in adding support for a 3rd party Sample Library

Once the expression maps are created a song/project needs to be created with each type of instrument in the Sample Lib and then an Endpoint Configuration saved

Finally the Endpoint Configurations are grouped together to create a Playback Template

Here's a video on the Dorico site that explains the operations to get to a Playback Template


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 20, 2022)

@VSTHero if you have a link to that video that would be great!

The really odd thing about the Dorico team is that they are hyper focused on playback editors and making Dorico into what is essentially a notation based DAW, but they don’t seem to want to show anyone how to do it. The only real instruction is coming from @ed buller


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## VSTHero (Nov 20, 2022)

Here's the other video. Enbr, thanks for reposting live vid on endpoint config and playback template. I stumbled through that part but didn't fully understood it. Just got far enough to not lose my setup but didn't really understand how it worked in a reliable way. Think the method is to watch it over and over, tinker to answer questions until things click. Then help others!


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## ennbr (Nov 20, 2022)

I was just looking at the last video seems to me it would be nice if the Dorico team would make a video that shows how to add a single instrument to Dorico

They keep focusing on adding instruments in a player with up to 16 instrument slots that's adding to the confusion of the new user

Once you do it a few times its really easy unless your adding a new Dorico symbol type like Aah or Ooh for a chorus lib that doesn't exist

You can import Expression Maps from Cubase I found that helpful in the beginning but they still need to be edited to verify that a Legato is connected to the Legato symbol for example. And Dorico really expects that a Natural articulation type is assigned when creating an Expression Map this is the default for all instruments so I will typically assign a Sustain articulation to Natural 

Another thing I always do when creating a new Playback Template is to set the current template to Silence this reduces the number of expression maps to just the default list for me it reduces the clutter and I can focus on my new maps 

But once the expression map is completed its just a matter of opening a new project adding the new instrument assign it's expression map and saving it as an Endpoint Configuration


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 20, 2022)

When I muster the gumption, I’m going to create a template for Berlin Strings. I’ve not messed with it since last February when I gave up partway through because I suddenly realized that Dorico had only done a partial release of the software (a first for me in 30 years of messing with this stuff). It’s hard to get excited about starting over, but I must . . . soon. . . . so very soon—oh wait, did someone say let’s go day drinking?


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## ennbr (Nov 20, 2022)

Jett Hitt said:


> I suddenly realized that Dorico had only done a partial release of the software


Yes they didn't finish everything that was planned for the 4.0 release and rolled the features out in a series of updates but it had no impact on the creation of Expression Maps, Endpoints or Playback Templates


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## VSTHero (Nov 20, 2022)

One thing I didn't understand is in Playing Techniques - staccato isn't listed, even though it is triggered by both a symbol and note length. And legato is listed but as a text instruction, even though it is primarily triggered by ties. But underneath the hood Dorico uses symbols for both as triggers. It's a small inconsistency but it makes things less clear than if there weren't 'hidden' connections and all were shown equally. Obviously these are logical to an extent but it's still creates a weird inconsistency.

They are both in playback techniques but that doesn't show how the score reads the techniques. My logic is to think of them as protected defaults but they could still be shown, because seeing them _teaches_ the user how Dorico works. Also seems like playing techniques and playback techniques shouldn't be two separate menus. You don't _have_ to link playing techniques to playback but it would still be nice to work with them side by side and see the links between notation and playback clearly, especially since then you have to create further links to your samples with the expression map. Maybe I'll put together a flow chart to share for folks who are just getting started. Again small things but they make the initial learning much harder; similarly, naming the menus playing techniques vs playback techniques is a guaranteed way to create 'stimulus confusion' (I'm a behavior analyst, so this sort of thing comes up often); they sound almost identical which increases the effort to pause and make sure your grabbing the right one - so there's some improvable UI issues that would more elegantly guide first time users.

Still, on the flip side, it works really well once you’ve figured it out - I’d take that over something more welcoming that’s full of bugs or lack of functionality.

Next need to map out Endpoints and Playback Templates. 

*Edit 11.21.2022

I missed something important. Playing techniques _does_ have a button to directly access playback techniques which really helps illustrate how it functions. I think I missed this originally because I started with Elements and then upgraded after experimenting, but it may have been in both versions and I may have just missed it full s top. This makes it easier to see the connections, so as Ed warned, user error is often the issue haha. I think just give it a 2-3 days and things start to click into place.


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## ennbr (Nov 20, 2022)

Are you missing the part where you double click say on Legato in the Expression map editor left column that will popup the Expression Map Techniques I would then select Legato in that list and press ok this will make the connection between the Expression map and Dorico's score Symbol


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 20, 2022)

ennbr said:


> Yes they didn't finish everything that was planned for the 4.0 release and rolled the features out in a series of updates but it had no impact on the creation of Expression Maps, Endpoints or Playback Templates


What would be the point of having all those things if you couldn't create a finished piece of music? I couldn't even edit the tempo. The fact is that Dorico users were used as guinea pigs for the larger Cubase rollout.


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## VSTHero (Nov 20, 2022)

ennbr said:


> Are you missing the part where you double click say on Legato in the Expression map editor left column that will popup the Expression Map Techniques I would then select Legato in that list and press ok this will make the connection between the Expression map and Dorico's score Symbol


Thanks for the trouble shooting -I did get that part thankfully (edit* I misunderstood and had missed this! The menus do connect in a smart way); I just wanted to point out there’s some inconsistent external logic in how things are presented to the user. Its odd that they don’t show the staccato and legato symbols in the playing techniques whose function is to store and label the symbols used by the score. I think what’s going on is while your given access to a lot of the playback engine, setup, there’s some aspects still hidden, probably because they are connected to some of the global humanization and playback features (the internal logic). But one consequence is it can make it harder to figure out the logic if you happen to make your first attempt to test these menus out using a common articulation like legato or staccato, which i think would be fairly common. Not a huge deal, I’m just thinking of how things could be more intuitive to lower the barrier of entry for impatient folks. I feel like good UI nudges you in the right direction without you even realizing it.


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## ennbr (Nov 20, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> I’m just thinking of how things could be more intuitive to lower the barrier of entry for impatient folks.


The most intuitive way is to hope users put-up there Playback Templates that anyone can drag over the Dorico Hub to install


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## VSTHero (Nov 20, 2022)

ennbr said:


> The most intuitive way is to hope users put-up there Playback Templates that anyone can drag over the Dorico Hub to install


Very true. And Dorico overall is awesome - I love how efficient all the popovers are and the overall flow of the design for composing. These critiques about setting up the libraries are small things but think it might increase user base.


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## swinkler (Nov 20, 2022)

@VSTHero you articulated my confusion perfectly. It’s slowly coming together for me but I do think it could be simpler.


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## ennbr (Nov 20, 2022)

It is quite a few moving parts to get a sample lib setup for Dorico in the end after looking at how it's done it really makes complete sense


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## PhilA (Nov 20, 2022)

ennbr said:


> It is quite a few moving parts to get a sample lib setup for Dorico in the end after looking at how it's done it really makes complete sense


I agree with this. They could have made it simpler but it seems they took the design decision early on to offer maximum flexibility and tweakability. Sadly for us users that comes with a more complex experience in setting these up. Ed has proved the effort is worth it.
That said once you get your gear around the process (try and try, practice and practice) those design decisions and the process actually make complete sense.
It’s not easy (is anything worthwhile easy?)but is very learnable.


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## Daniel S. (Nov 21, 2022)

I agree that we need to do a better job of guiding users through how all of these concepts fit together and how to approach them. It's something that those of us who are involved in explaining Dorico to users – me, Lillie (our docs writer), John (our product specialist) and Ant (our UI/UX designer and video tutorial creator) – have talked about a lot, but because Dorico is so broad and so deep, it's been a challenge to really devote the time we need to in order to come up with a comprehensive guide to this area of the program.

I should really make the time to write at least a few blog posts to try to set this stuff out, and I will try to do so in the near-ish future. There are always so many demands on my time, and only so many hours in the day, but I will do my best!


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## Maximvs (Nov 21, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> I agree that we need to do a better job of guiding users through how all of these concepts fit together and how to approach them. It's something that those of us who are involved in explaining Dorico to users – me, Lillie (our docs writer), John (our product specialist) and Ant (our UI/UX designer and video tutorial creator) – have talked about a lot, but because Dorico is so broad and so deep, it's been a challenge to really devote the time we need to in order to come up with a comprehensive guide to this area of the program.
> 
> I should really make the time to write at least a few blog posts to try to set this stuff out, and I will try to do so in the near-ish future. There are always so many demands on my time, and so many hours in the day, but I will do my best!


Dear Daniel,

First of all thanks a lot for your dedication and for your time in answering posts in this Forum, very much appreciated.

Thanks also to consider writing some blog posts and/or material about Dorico expression maps.

Best regards,

Maximus


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## samphony (Nov 21, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> I agree that we need to do a better job of guiding users through how all of these concepts fit together and how to approach them. It's something that those of us who are involved in explaining Dorico to users – me, Lillie (our docs writer), John (our product specialist) and Ant (our UI/UX designer and video tutorial creator) – have talked about a lot, but because Dorico is so broad and so deep, it's been a challenge to really devote the time we need to in order to come up with a comprehensive guide to this area of the program.
> 
> I should really make the time to write at least a few blog posts to try to set this stuff out, and I will try to do so in the near-ish future. There are always so many demands on my time, and only so many hours in the day, but I will do my best!


I’ve always used a DAW for my type of work. I followed all your blog posts when you started sharing them and watched a couple videos recently and am hooked getting into it especially for orchestral and big band writing.

One question remains: will there be vst system link or something similar to easily and tightly sync dorico and a DAW like Nuendo. Or are you considering a tight sync protocol like avid satellite including an API that other 3rd party could use so we could seamlessly sync dorico and daw? I use mainly Logic/Studio One and Pro Tools. 

Or what about audio staffs like staffpad offers?

Thanks for your participation and openness!

Sam


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## Daniel S. (Nov 21, 2022)

We certainly plan to add audio tracks to Dorico in future, though only in a reasonably basic form, to allow you to play back tracks of audio from particular points in the score. We're not going to get into audio recording or audio editing.

Sync with a sequencer/DAW is also something we're thinking about, of course. It's not 100% clear what the right kind of technology to achieve this should be, and we're not working on it right now, but it's something we want to address in future.


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 21, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> I agree that we need to do a better job of guiding users through how all of these concepts fit together and how to approach them. It's something that those of us who are involved in explaining Dorico to users – me, Lillie (our docs writer), John (our product specialist) and Ant (our UI/UX designer and video tutorial creator) – have talked about a lot, but because Dorico is so broad and so deep, it's been a challenge to really devote the time we need to in order to come up with a comprehensive guide to this area of the program.
> 
> I should really make the time to write at least a few blog posts to try to set this stuff out, and I will try to do so in the near-ish future. There are always so many demands on my time, and only so many hours in the day, but I will do my best!


I think almost everyone recognizes and appreciates your dedication to the users and your product. Your willingness to engage with users is unparalleled in the software world. Words may fly on a forum, but anyone paying the slightest attention knows what you do--and I dare say it's probably not healthy.

One comprehensive video about creating expression maps would be fantastic. However, you guys also make excellent shorts (really first-rate), and a series of shorts about using the different players would be extremely helpful. So separate shorts for Kontakt, Sine, and Spitfire Player--and VEPro. If you give us enough pieces of the puzzle, we can extrapolate the whole, but as things stand right now, we were thrown a 100k-piece puzzle and told, "Hey, good luck with that."


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## VSTHero (Nov 21, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> I agree that we need to do a better job of guiding users through how all of these concepts fit together and how to approach them. It's something that those of us who are involved in explaining Dorico to users – me, Lillie (our docs writer), John (our product specialist) and Ant (our UI/UX designer and video tutorial creator) – have talked about a lot, but because Dorico is so broad and so deep, it's been a challenge to really devote the time we need to in order to come up with a comprehensive guide to this area of the program.
> 
> I should really make the time to write at least a few blog posts to try to set this stuff out, and I will try to do so in the near-ish future. There are always so many demands on my time, and only so many hours in the day, but I will do my best!


appreciate you and your teams brilliant work though; Dorico is wonderful to use - it’s easy on a forum to focus on one challenging area and take for granted 100 seamless things that make it such a positive experience, so props to you and your team


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## swinkler (Nov 21, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> We certainly plan to add audio tracks to Dorico in future, though only in a reasonably basic form, to allow you to play back tracks of audio from particular points in the score. We're not going to get into audio recording or audio editing.
> 
> Sync with a sequencer/DAW is also something we're thinking about, of course. It's not 100% clear what the right kind of technology to achieve this should be, and we're not working on it right now, but it's something we want to address in future.


I think if you had basic audio features one could probably better deal with extracting audio from a video track for scoring for example. As far as other 'audio' features I think we can already export individual tracks or groups of tracks correct? In my unexperienced thinking that covers stems you might have to deliver.


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## ennbr (Nov 21, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> We certainly plan to add audio tracks to Dorico in future, though only in a reasonably basic form, to allow you to play back tracks of audio from particular points in the score. We're not going to get into audio recording or audio editing.


Funny you say this I was working on a song yesterday adding Brass parts and I could have used an audio track with the vocals as a reference.

Also is there a way to export audio as Mono from what I ran into yesterday Dorico only exports as Stereo is that correct?


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## Daniel S. (Nov 21, 2022)

ennbr said:


> Also is there a way to export audio as Mono from what I ran into yesterday Dorico only exports as Stereo is that correct?


Yes, so far as I know, that's correct.


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## samphony (Nov 21, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> We certainly plan to add audio tracks to Dorico in future, though only in a reasonably basic form, to allow you to play back tracks of audio from particular points in the score. We're not going to get into audio recording or audio editing.
> 
> Sync with a sequencer/DAW is also something we're thinking about, of course. It's not 100% clear what the right kind of technology to achieve this should be, and we're not working on it right now, but it's something we want to address in future.


Thanks 4 the feedback Daniel! I think it would be splendid if Dorico would support both Ableton Link (for a more open sync that allows for experimentation) as well as a tight sync protocol to keep a DAW and Dorico tightly in sync. 

Regarding audio it is of course enough if audio staffs are basic but they should allow to be tick or sample based so audio could be free form but also allow to stay in sync with the tempo track.


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## VSTHero (Nov 21, 2022)

Hi guys, I added an addendum on my critique as I completely missed that Dorico _does _allow you to access and link Playback Techniques in Playing Techniques, I just missed it while I was sorting everything out, so user error on that one. Ennbr also showed that you can access the other menus from the Expression maps. 

Anyway, slept on it and the setup has clicked.

1. Playing Techniques - How the techniques appear on the score (and where you can create new technique text and symbols)
2. Playback Techniques - What that text and symbols trigger for playback.
3. Expression Maps - Where you assign the samples, CC's and other conditions that playback techniques will use
4. Endpoint Configurations - Where you assign and save which expression maps Kontakt or other players will use per channel.
5. Playback Template - Where you save a template that auto loads all this info.

So if it's confusing at first, sleep on it haha


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## ed buller (Nov 22, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> 1. Playing Techniques - How the techniques appear on the score (and where you can create new technique text and symbols)
> 2. Playback Techniques - What that text and symbols trigger for playback.
> 3. Expression Maps - Where you assign the samples, CC's and other conditions that playback techniques will use
> 4. Endpoint Configurations - Where you assign and save which expression maps Kontakt or other players will use per channel.
> 5. Playback Template - Where you save a template that auto loads all this info.


This is correct . Despite offering five separate opportunities for you to mess it all up , It really works and is very powerful. 

best

e


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## VSTHero (Nov 22, 2022)

Thanks Ed. Your original guide pretty much covered it all with clarity I just wasn’t familiar enough yet with the basics of how Dorico playback worked in general. And now VEPro is on sale - so thinking of picking it up to complete the setup!


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## ed buller (Nov 22, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> And now VEPro is on sale - so thinking of picking it up to complete the setup!


You really should. It's a game changer in making all this work hassle free

best

e


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## PhilA (Nov 22, 2022)

ed buller said:


> You really should. It's a game changer in making all this work hassle free
> 
> best
> 
> e


Apologies for yet another question Ed. Are you using VEPro on a slave machine with Dorico or on the same? I’m curious as I have VEPro but haven’t attempted using it with Dorico yet. From your comment I guess it’s worth the effort? 
I assume (in lieu of trying this yet) that all is the same except the endpoint setup being to the VEPro instance instead of the locally running vst?


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## ed buller (Nov 22, 2022)

PhilA said:


> Apologies for yet another question Ed. Are you using VEPro on a slave machine with Dorico or on the same? I’m curious as I have VEPro but haven’t attempted using it with Dorico yet. From your comment I guess it’s worth the effort?
> I assume (in lieu of trying this yet) that all is the same except the endpoint setup being to the VEPro instance instead of the locally running vst?


yes. It just sees VEPRO as a VST though. It makes a huge difference. There is no way my template would run IN Dorico

best

e


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## Leigh (Nov 22, 2022)

ed buller said:


> yes. It just sees VEPRO as a VST though. It makes a huge difference. There is no way my template would run IN Dorico
> 
> best
> 
> e


I'm using it on the same machine as Dorico and I agree, it's a game-changer and hassle-free. 

**Leigh


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## PhilA (Nov 22, 2022)

Leigh said:


> I'm using it on the same machine as Dorico and I agree, it's a game-changer and hassle-free.
> 
> **Leigh


Ah I've just remembered why I wasn't using VEPro, after 2.5 years it's still not Apple Silicon Native when everything else I use is :(


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## VSTHero (Nov 22, 2022)

Edit: *solved this!*
I had a quick VE Pro question. Since I'm mostly using CS libraries I usually try to put them all in 1 instance of Kontakt to reduce load for my aging 2017 MacBook Pro, but if I do that within VE Pro, Dorico doesn't recognize the channel assignments, which makes sense since it's looking for VE Pro's channels, not the Kontakt instance's.

Is there any to set this up using the Kontakt instrument channels within VE Pro? - I'm a little new to rigging up midi in this way

Problem solved! Found the add channel function!


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## DaddyO (Nov 22, 2022)

One thing that quickly comes up when working with Dorico playback for VSL is the Dorico-set note durations for particular situations. I'm trying to be methodical here in ExMap setup, especially with regard to Note Length conditions in concert with Dorico's general settings.

Found in Playback Options > Timing > Note Durations, the default playback percentages are as follows:

Default notes (95)
Staccato (50)
Staccatissimo (25)
Tenuto (98)
Marcato (95)
Legato (105)
(Legato affects all notes under slur except last note, which is shortened)
(checkbox to use Maximum duration for staccato playback, will not be treated by me in this post, requires experimentation)

It seems on the face of it that these values might not always help and might hinder when working in conjunction with using ExMaps. They may even conflict with any Note Length settings in those maps. 

For example if a staccato sample is already short, it seems a Dorico default of 50% might cause the already short sample to become even shorter, doubling up on the intended effect. Or, will ExMap Note Length settings override Dorico's defaults or amplify them?

I'm curious what people have found useful here. Set all to 100% and let the library, ExMap length setting, and/or manually adjusted note lengths control this? Or try to better calibrate the percentages, which would seem to have the drawback that a one-size-fits-all percentage likely won't work for all libraries, instruments and articulations.

Experienced opinions? What works for you?


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## samphony (Nov 22, 2022)

PhilA said:


> Ah I've just remembered why I wasn't using VEPro, after 2.5 years it's still not Apple Silicon Native when everything else I use is :(


I hope this changes soon


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## ennbr (Nov 22, 2022)

according to Ben M1 support is being worked on


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## DaddyO (Nov 22, 2022)

I have decided on a strategy for overall ExMap setup for my VSL Libraries, for now only working on Synchron and Synchron-ized libraries excluding Special Editions. I will not tackle percussion until I am done with Winds, Brass and Strings.

Although my nature is to get bogged down in comprehensive efforts, I am going to limit myself initially to Natural (one entry for each length condition), Short notes, Long marcato, common trills, and important dynamics (sfz, sffz, fp). I am reserving any Add-On entries in this first phase. Where applicable I am using only auto-speed assignments for Legatos and vibrato x-fades rather than assigning an entry to each type of vibrato. All this keeps the maps shorter for troubleshooting. I am setting up a working foundation.

So I am setting up MASTER maps for each library based on one instrument in it, go through a testing phase to be sure all switches are working, then once they are complete I will duplicate the maps and make any necessary adjustments for instruments with keyswitches in different octaves.

I am documenting every map and entry in an Excel spreadsheet for control and reference. This makes a daunting and confusing process a little less confusing for this senior citizen who can run into trouble keeping things straight.

Phase two will be experimenting with Add-Ons. Future phases will include attempts to implement additional articulations.

Ed, thanks again, your approach and maps have greatly influenced mine.


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## ssnowe (Nov 22, 2022)

Question regarding vepro and licenses.

If I have dorico with vepro on computer 1 actually running vepro instruments on computer 2,is that one license or two. Essentially, computer 1 is running the Dorico score, computer 2 is making the sounds.


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## ennbr (Nov 22, 2022)

DaddyO said:


> I have decided on a strategy for overall ExMap setup for my VSL Libraries


Have you downloaded the Expression Maps for Dorico that VSL has on there website






Introduction | VSL - Tutorials







www.vsl.info


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## VSTHero (Nov 22, 2022)

Nice guys - I've got all the articulations for CS libraries setup except for runs and trills. Need to setup those and work on the dynamics next - the brass are coming in guns blaring at _pp_.


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## ennbr (Nov 22, 2022)

ssnowe said:


> If I have dorico with vepro on computer 1 actually running vepro instruments on computer 2,is that one license or two. Essentially, computer 1 is running the Dorico score, computer 2 is making the sounds.


That is one license I have for example one server and two computers talking to the vepro server however the instruments can not be used on both workstations at the same time so if I'm using my violins 1 and 2 on my laptop they will not be available on my iMac in the studio


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## DaddyO (Nov 22, 2022)

ennbr said:


> Have you downloaded the Expression Maps for Dorico that VSL has on there website
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. Don't want to use those. Thanks, though.


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## kubus (Nov 22, 2022)

VSTHero said:


> Ended up upgrading with the current sale haha, wasn't really possible to setup with the Elements edition, to many functions not available.





Piotrek K. said:


> Yep, elements has this odd issue, you can create new playback technique, but you can't assign it to symbol or text because that feature is PRO only. So in essence you can't use it. They should cut out playing techniques menu in Elements as it is confusing. Or maybe I'm missing something?



Dear @VSTHero and @Piotrek K., and also @ed buller:

Could you elaborate on this limitation in Dorico Elements (vs. Pro)? I'm curious to better understand what's not possible in Dorico Elements, as I'm currently looking into getting Elements, and I'm interested in using Elements with custom playback / VSTis, so setting up EMs and controlling what playing techniques trigger which articulations in VSTis would be crucial.

Thanks for any insight you could share!


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## Piotrek K. (Nov 22, 2022)

kubus said:


> Could you elaborate on this limitation in Dorico Elements (vs. Pro)?


Elements have one, very important limitation - you can't create new techniques (well, you can, but you can't use them in a score so effectively you can't ). Because of that you can only use preconfigured articulations symbols and texts in score. All basics are there, legato, staccato, sfz, tremolo, trills, vibrato, non vib, even portamento (although only portamento down seems to be mapped to portamento text in score) etc. If you have library that for example has Sul G articulation you can't trigger it via Expression Map. But as there is Key Editor with all the CC data and piano roll you can do some workarounds like add a keyswitch manually or assign keyswitch to unused CC for things that you can't trigger with expression map. A bit messy, but doable. Also Dorico Elements do not have Playback options, but not sure how important it is yet.

You can trial Elements and see for yourself if the limitations are too big.

* disclaimer, I've had Dorico Pro from 2.5 to 3.5 then sold it and now decided to go with Elements as it costed less than my sushi bowl I ate last week. Remember to crossgrade from Dorico SE for even lower price!


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## kubus (Nov 23, 2022)

Piotrek K. said:


> Elements have one, very important limitation - you can't create new techniques (well, you can, but you can't use them in a score so effectively you can't ). Because of that you can only use preconfigured articulations symbols and texts in score. All basics are there, legato, staccato, sfz, tremolo, trills, vibrato, non vib, even portamento (although only portamento down seems to be mapped to portamento text in score) etc. If you have library that for example has Sul G articulation you can't trigger it via Expression Map. But as there is Key Editor with all the CC data and piano roll you can do some workarounds like add a keyswitch manually or assign keyswitch to unused CC for things that you can't trigger with expression map. A bit messy, but doable. Also Dorico Elements do not have Playback options, but not sure how important it is yet.
> 
> You can trial Elements and see for yourself if the limitations are too big.
> 
> * disclaimer, I've had Dorico Pro from 2.5 to 3.5 then sold it and now decided to go with Elements as it costed less than my sushi bowl I ate last week. Remember to crossgrade from Dorico SE for even lower price!



Thank you so much for clarifying this, I think this info is also valuable to others researching Dorico!


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## kubus (Nov 23, 2022)

Piotrek K. said:


> Elements have one, very important limitation - you can't create new techniques (well, you can, but you can't use them in a score so effectively you can't ). Because of that you can only use preconfigured articulations symbols and texts in score.



@Daniel S. 

Dear Daniel, it's very valuable to have you on this forum, I thought to ask you about the above mentioned limitation. Is it an "intentional" limitation/separation between Elements and Pro? I'm asking because it seems that new techniques can in fact be created in Elements, but can then not be used?

Thanks for any insights you might be able to share and with kind regards


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## Daniel S. (Nov 23, 2022)

It's intentional that the *Library* > *Playing Techniques* dialog is excluded from Dorico Elements, yes. The Playback Techniques dialog is included because it's possible to set up and use playback techniques with percussion instruments and kits, but it is true that this results in the situation that you can create a playback technique with the intention of using it in an _expression_ map and you cannot create a new visible playing technique in the score to trigger it.


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## kubus (Nov 23, 2022)

Daniel S. said:


> It's intentional that the *Library* > *Playing Techniques* dialog is excluded from Dorico Elements, yes. The Playback Techniques dialog is included because it's possible to set up and use playback techniques with percussion instruments and kits, but it is true that this results in the situation that you can create a playback technique with the intention of using it in an _expression_ map and you cannot create a new visible playing technique in the score to trigger it.



Thank you for clarifying this, much appreciated!


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## VSTHero (Nov 23, 2022)

kubus said:


> Thank you so much for clarifying this, I think this info is also valuable to others researching Dorico!


My comments were premature so please disregard - I’ll edit them later- I hadn’t fully understood how it worked yet. You can probably get Elements to do what you need, unless you need to edit/add in scoring symbols beyond the built in ones.


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## VSTHero (Nov 24, 2022)

I've run into one challenge with Cinematic Studio Libraries for creating Expression Maps - the legato transitions are triggered by velocity rather than a CC. I'm trying, for runs, to use CC#58 to trigger the low latency legato delay but with a high velocity value so it triggers the fast legato (within the low latency mode). Meanwhile dynamic markings are tied to CC#1 and CC#11. I've been able to do everything except assign/control the velocity to trigger the fast legato - I don't know how to control velocity in Dorico when it's not tied to dynamic markings on the score (except I guess using velocity editing in the play menu, but the goal is to use just notation and not need to hand edit these).

I have a separate playing technique for triggering the marcato based runs which work well for articulated fast runs but not for legato.


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## VSTHero (Nov 24, 2022)

I found a Kontakt multiscript that looks like it can transform it so you can control velocity by a CC so I'm going to give that a shot!


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## VSTHero (Nov 30, 2022)

Hi Ed, I wanted to ask you how you are managing the dynamics between all the libraries and articulations you're using? I'm finding some challenges with balancing dynamics with different articulations - things like legato responding different to staccato or non-legato repetitions in terms of volume with the same CC values/dynamic markings. Since Dorico doesn't allow a lot of control of CC values for dynamic markings in the expression maps, I'm needing to add a lot in the score and hide them, a very similar process to editing the values in automation. Anyway, I'm just curious how you are approaching this to create balanced melodic phrases with multiple articulations! Thanks!

*Edit* I ended up adjusting my approach for the Cinematic Studio Libraries and created custom playing techniques (instead of traditional score markings) that essentially trigger every configuration of the articulations (including things like Rep overlay for Marcato ect.).

This a bit more fiddly but I just hide them afterwards and I'm able to fine tune melodic lines without leaving the score. The only thing I'll have to edit in the playback section is velocity control to trigger the 3 expressive legatos (I'm mostly using the low latency except for soloists to avoid this) and sustain accents, which isn't essential but a nice touch. If I can find a way to control velocity with a CC I could tie these to playing techniques too but I haven't been successful using a KSP for this yet).

The dynamic issues from before were more my own error with regards to not including the secondary controls of CC#11 on all articulations - this evened them out. I found that for the Dynamic Power Curve, 3.5 worked well for getting most of the dynamic range between PPP and FFF, at least for CSW. Overall pretty happy with the results. It sounds great and I haven't even gotten to EQing within VEPro.


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## Ad_Astra (Dec 19, 2022)

Two questions. I'm still a beginner with Dorico. I've managed to use different VSTi's with dynamics controlled with dynamics markings. I'm set with a couple of sounds and just go for it and make music instead of defining maps. Feels still a bit intimidating :D

1) What's the fastest way to make an expression map for a new instrument? I mean, if I want to start using SampleTank 4 strings instead, which has keyswitches. Just duplicate the HSO Violin expression map, name it SampleTank Violin and then correct all the keyswitches to match SampleTank keyswitches? Anything else? (I know there's better out there but I want to load fast)

2) For now I've used EastWest HSO samples as well. Haven't had time to figure out the switching so I've used only one patch (long sustain or something like that). I'd like to use the marcatos/staccatos too. Is it better to use that long sustain on channel 1 and the rest on different channels? Or should I use the keyswitch patch instead?


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## benwiggy (Dec 19, 2022)

Ad_Astra said:


> What's the fastest way to make an expression map for a new instrument?



You need to have a "Normal" expression, at least. I wouldn't copy another map, as the patches and MIDI data may be completely different.

First, look at the capabilities of your sample instrument. If it has staccato, pizzicato, legato patches or controls, then create entries in the Expression Map to ... map those expressions to whatever KSes and CCs are used. Make sure you set whatever dynamic control is used (e.g. CC1, Velocity) for each patch in the expression definition.

Next comes the 'fine tuning' -- you might want to use different samples for short notes and long notes. You may want to adjust the Playing Option Overrides for default note length, beat accents, humanization, dynamic curve, etc, etc.

Don't forget that you can create maps for combined expressions, eg. Mute + Accent + Legato (+ Note length!). It's possible that a simple instrument might have around 10 expressions; a more complex one could have 30. (NotePerformer has around 100...!!)

Here's the list of my map for the OT Tableau Cello:


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## Ad_Astra (Dec 20, 2022)

benwiggy said:


> You need to have a "Normal" expression, at least. I wouldn't copy another map, as the patches and MIDI data may be completely different.
> 
> First, look at the capabilities of your sample instrument. If it has staccato, pizzicato, legato patches or controls, then create entries in the Expression Map to ... map those expressions to whatever KSes and CCs are used. Make sure you set whatever dynamic control is used (e.g. CC1, Velocity) for each patch in the expression definition.


Thanks for your reply!

Looked a bit on this last night and opene up the HSO Violin expression map and compared it to one ofthe SampleTank violin keyswitch patches. This had around ten switches. The natural ones were mapped already correctly. So I guess you wouldn't have to do not much more than map the switches in the correct keys. At least saves time compared to starting from scratch to create every sound.

In SampleTank there's some KS patches that had up to 20 keyswitches so maybe they're the best to start with and map only the ones I need.

Easy to start with, I guess.


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