# Analog synth recommendations?



## tmm (Dec 30, 2015)

I'm looking for a <$1k analog synth (VA if it's really good), stretching to $1.5k for the right unit. I've owned both the Analog Four (loved the tone, HATED the interface) and the MiniBrute previously, and I'm not against picking up another (would be Analog Keys if I go Elektron again).

Requirements are simple: just looking for best tone, filters, and routing options. Polyphony is a nice-to-have, but not necessary. Same for on-board fx... I can do far more fx-wise with my plugins than any synth's built-ins anyway.

Please don't suggest any soft synths; I have and regularly use nearly all of them. Just looking for another tool to experiment with, possibly to run through some interesting pedals.

What would you recommend, and why?


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## stonzthro (Dec 30, 2015)

Moog Sub 37 comes to mind - I don't have that one, but I have several Moogs and they never disappoint. Also, the Boomstars are quite nice. Be sure to buy from a place with a good return policy as analog synths are a 'taste' thing.


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## pdub (Dec 30, 2015)

I was going to say the exact same thing! Sub37 is awesome and you get a lot for the money. I love mine. The Boomstars win for out and out sound but no programability but plenty of sound design options. I have the 4075 and SE80 as well as a Sub37. The SE80 has more sound options with the additional HP filter and the best sync. 

I've owned both the A4 and AK in the past and while you can do a lot with them if you are into the Elektron way of things the raw sound never thrilled me.


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## EC2 (Dec 30, 2015)

There´s a ton of great synths out there to be recommended. What are you planning to do with it? Straight forward playing? Sound design? Do you need it for basses, pads, leads...? You mentioned polyphony - how many voices would you need? What about MIDI I/O? Do you want to be able to save your sounds?


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## Wes Antczak (Dec 30, 2015)

Another +1 for Sub37. Most of the controls are on the front panel, which I really like. The build quality is overall really good and the keyboard is really nice (and also has aftertouch). It may be a little more than what you mentioned, but imo this kind of synth (unlike say some plugins) is not something that you purchase for just one year or two. I have since gotten a Mother32 and I like the sound of that even better... it has to me more of the vintage Moog vibe, whereas the Sub37 is perhaps leaning more towards the more modern Moog sound. But both are great.


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## tmm (Dec 30, 2015)

Thanks for the Sub 37 recommendation(s)! I actually hadn't heard of it until this thread (I'm admittedly uninitiated in the world of Moog). I've heard of the Sub Phatty before... Similar? Better? Worse? Good but less versatile?



pdub said:


> I've owned both the A4 and AK in the past and while you can do a lot with them if you are into the Elektron way of things the raw sound never thrilled me.



Glad I'm not the only one who thought that, and exactly why I brought up the fact that onboard fx weren't as important. The A4's verb and delay are awesome, but anytime I tried to build something from scratch, and had to deal with the raw tone, I found myself totally uninspired. I like Diva's raw tones better than the A4's - but not better than the MicroBrute's.



EC2 said:


> There´s a ton of great synths out there to be recommended. What are you planning to do with it? Straight forward playing? Sound design? Do you need it for basses, pads, leads...? You mentioned polyphony - how many voices would you need? What about MIDI I/O? Do you want to be able to save your sounds?



Plan? All of the above. Re: polyphony, as noted, at least one  MIDI I/O? USB would be nice-to-have, but not a necessity. Save? Also nice-to-have. I have a camera in my phone for documenting things that don't otherwise connect to a computer.


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## pdub (Dec 30, 2015)

The Sub37 and Sub Phatty share the same sound engine but the Sub37 came after has some great additions like being paraphonic, larger keyboard, aftertouch, sequencer, arpeggiator and pretty much one knob per function. As Wes stated it has a more modern sound than the classic Minimoog. A bit brighter and cleaner but not in a bad way. It's still capable of that huge Moog sound. The Feedback and Multidrive circuits can easily grit it up nicely. It's right at the top of your budget range at $1499.


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## SpeakPianissimoAndCarry.. (Dec 30, 2015)

Well, all of the new ones are expensive for what you get. Analog is popular now. If you want the best, you have to go old. I would look for an Oberheim Matrix 12 on ebay or go down in models, if that price is too high, like an Oberheim Expander. Tom Oberheim is building his first model in his garage with his wife these days, but they are expensive also. Roland Juno 6 old models are going for 5 grand these days, but you may be able to find a better price for an old Oberheim and his were always the best. For your price, find any used Oberheim that you can afford. You will not regret it. My humble opinion.


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## Ryan (Dec 31, 2015)

Look after some second hand DSI and Moog stuff 


Ryan


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## tmm (Dec 31, 2015)

Been researching DSI, too. Are the Tetra or Mopho any good? Or do you need to get into Prophet territory to really get a feel for DSI?

Just searched Oberheim... seems that may be out of my price range, even second hand.

From what I can tell, the Sub 37 meets pretty much all my requirements, and I'm seeing some used units at just over $1k, so they also fit the budget.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Dec 31, 2015)

The only thing that kept me from buying a Sub-37 was the lack of a multi-filter. FWIW, I bought a Pro-2 instead, which I have found to be an amazing synth.


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## chimuelo (Dec 31, 2015)

Build a Eurorack and stop wasting time and money.
Put these 1 Trick Poneys on ebay while they still fetch a few dollars.


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## Baron Greuner (Dec 31, 2015)

Both the Sub 37 and Pro-2 have paraphonic capabilities. 

If I was forced to get either one of those, I would probably get the Pro-2 because I have a Prophet atm and like the sound. Either way they are both good (played them both).


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## dgburns (Dec 31, 2015)

having alot of fun with the sub37,but need more time in to get to know it fully.what I can say is that it takes to fx in LPX rather well and can instantly sound more modern with ,say a soundtoys crystallizer or echo etc.the low end is solid in a way the virus ti is not.The virus would be my first choice for a first time hardware synth due to the plugin libarian editing functions and is maybe a bit more mature software wise.
very intrigued by the pro2,it's one of those things that just mystifies me with it's unique architechture.I want one,but went for the moog because it's so classic.Some sounds on the pro2 sounded like a cross between absynth and massive with a sequencer thrown in.
I do score work mostly,so how a synth integrates into the workflow is the biggest concern.I need a good librarian editor so I can recall patches for specific cues.With the moog I'm finding myself printing all the midi which I don't do anymore with the virus ti.Saves time.just something to think about.
also was sort of intrigued with the nord lead 4.It had some nice spacey arpegiated stuff going on.I'm sure it can crossover into both moog and pro2 territory.maybe that's the thing in the end,test drive them for a bit and see which one pulls out inspiration the most for you.Funny enough,the first time I played the sub37,I walked away saying "meh",but the second time I had my bearings on it and ideas just started coming out of every patch I futzed with.The knobs just invite you to play around and alot of the interesting stuff happens when you play with the basic sound.I think that's it in the end,the sound is by itself deceptively simple,it's the movement of the basic sound that creates the interest,and all the while keeping it simple due to the max two notes.It has been forcing me to think in terms of more simple lines that hold more space in the overall context of the music.
not sure any of that is useful to you,but there it is...


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## banes (Dec 31, 2015)

http://mfberlin.de/en/device/mfb-dominion1_en/ (MFB Dominion 1) seems to be popular these days. It's paraphonic, you can get it for 1390€ VAT included and it's built like a tank (made in Germany)


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## Wes Antczak (Dec 31, 2015)

For a nice analog paraphonic (8 voices) at a fairly cheap price I would also suggest the Waldorf Pulse2. It's a nice small module and sounds great. It's virtual cousin would be the Blofeld. Some people have said that the Blofeld doesn't sound as deep as the Microwave and in fact perhaps it doesn't. Personally, I tend to agree... it sounds maybe more towards Largo than towards the Microwave (I've had an XTK for quite a while now), but it sounds pretty good, imo. Might not be your cup of tea, but maybe something to consider depending on your budget. A Virus is yet another beast altogether. I only got as far as a C, but the Ti series is fantastic if you wish to go that route.

Keeping only to analogs, there is also the Novation to consider. BassStation2 is all plastic, but feels pretty solid.

There are quite a few options out there these days, depending on needs and wants.

The Pro-2 is certainly an excellent choice and has plenty of sound options. But I believe it's about $2k? At which point you are also getting into the Prophet6 range. ($2200 for the module, $2800 for the key version) On the cheap (as far as DSI goes) there is also the Evolver.


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## Ryan (Jan 1, 2016)

As for the Evolver; Love it!

Tetra is a kind of a 4 voice Prophet 8. 
Mopho = 1 voice Tetra


Do you like to turn knobs?
I like the option to have full control with the VST support of the Moog, DSI stuff. But also all the other analogy gear that's around.
http://ctrlr.org/ is a great place.

Best
Ryan


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## tmm (Jan 1, 2016)

Thanks for the Ctrlr link! Will check that out.

As I'm listening to demos of all the instruments you guys are suggesting (and thank you so much for all of these!), I feel like I should add a little more context -

I tend to use synths for one of 3 things:

1) Atmospheric sounds - not necessarily pads, but sounds that create the canvas for the rest of the paint

2) Instrument-like sounds - those tones that sound like a real, physical instrument that you just can't identify

3) Basses - thick, punchy, deep bass. Think one of 2 use cases: modern hip hop / rnb / rap, or cinematic / expansive.

All of the above with the caveat of NOT EDM, dance, or classic synth oriented. If it sounds like Genesis, Sonic the Hedgehog, dubstep, the latest club hit, or pretty much any of the earlier synth albums / soundtracks, it's not at all what I'm looking for. The one exception is that I've got a thing for tight, percussive, tonal trap sounds.

I totally realize that all synths (or at least most... some just have that tone) can be tweaked for any type of music, but some have features that help with one type of tone more than others, or are typically used for _______ genre. But it's so tough for me to envision using a lot of these synths the way I'd want to use them when all the demos I hear of the instruments (mfg's site or users') sound like Jump, or at best Blade Runner.

Literally ALL the DSI site demos were total turnoffs for me, though I'm reasonably certain I'd like the instruments. The Moog demos were half and half... I was able to pick sounds out of them that I liked.


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## pdub (Jan 1, 2016)

I never been a fan of the new DSI sound for analog stuff. I still have a vintage Pro One and Prophet V which are just awesome but they are getting expensive. The new Pro 2 is cool and a different beast with its digital oscillators and Multiple filters. It's a bit out of your price range though. DSI doesn't have a great track record for updates. They tend to just come out with new stuff.

As I mentioned previously also check out the Studio Electronics Boomstar SE80. It's old school through hole components not SMT and one of the best sounding and flexible modern analog synths IMO. It just doesn't have patch memory.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Jan 1, 2016)

Check out the Korg MS-20 Desktop. It has some extras that the original didn't have like Osc sync and FM.


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## tmm (Jan 1, 2016)

Echoes in the Attic said:


> Check out the Korg MS-20 Desktop. It has some extras that the original didn't have like Osc sync and FM.



lol surprised at how long it took for someone to mention the MS20. I LOVE the keyboard on the MS20, the keys are a really unique size and feel. Wasn't as enthralled with the actual tone. It didn't seem as deep to me as some other synths.



pdub said:


> As I mentioned previously also check out the Studio Electronics Boomstar SE80. It's old school through hole components not SMT and one of the best sounding and flexible modern analog synths IMO. It just doesn't have patch memory.



Just spent a little more time reading through SE's site, and currently working through their SoundCloud demos. Really liking some of the tones. Why the SE80, specifically? Isn't the 5089 the Moog model?


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## pdub (Jan 1, 2016)

All the Boomstars are identical it's the filters that distinguishes them. They are based on Minimoog Oscillators and VCA's. The SE80 has an additional HP filter so I think it has more sonic capabilities than the others but the 5089 nails the classic Moog thing. I have the SE80 and 4075. The 4075 is based on the arp filter is Moog like but a bit more agressive in the resonance. I tried the 5089 out but since I already had the Sub37 I went with the SE80. If you only have one synth having the additional filter really opens up your palette but they are all nice.


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## Echoes in the Attic (Jan 2, 2016)

tmm said:


> lol surprised at how long it took for someone to mention the MS20. I LOVE the keyboard on the MS20, the keys are a really unique size and feel. Wasn't as enthralled with the actual tone. It didn't seem as deep to me as some other synths.



Note that the desktop is different than the classic. It has no keyboard and has many modifications (like I said FM and sync being a couple), as well as both rev 1 and 2 filter modes. And it's definitely more flexible than many analog synth, with all the different modulation routings. But if you don't like the sound then oh well. I think it's one of the only hardware analogs I'd consider.


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## Wes Antczak (Jan 3, 2016)

Both MS20's are pretty nice, but yeah, you have to like the sound. Personally I love them.

I think also that the desktop is only available as a kit? Not a big deal to put together, but it may be something that you may not want to do. I believe some shops charge a little bit extra and will put it together for you. The other thing regarding the MS20's is that they do not have any sort of patch memory (unlike say the Sub37 or the DSI). Not necessarily a show stopper (the Arturia's do not either), but again something to be aware of when making your decision. Also on the Korgs, the midi is super basic.


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## Astronaut FX (Jan 3, 2016)

Moog Mother-32

Great standalone, with potential for integrating into a full eurorack set up.


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## Prockamanisc (Jan 3, 2016)

This thread really got me thinking about getting a synth. Would the Sub 37 be good, or (if I had the money) would it be better too splurge for the Minimoog Voyager Performed Edition? The Rackmount version isn't that much more expensive than the Sub 37. I feel like the pure tone of that synth is something that just can't be replicated in VST form yet.


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## ed buller (Jan 3, 2016)

the sub is superior in sound to the voyager. Much closer to a classic moog sound. 

e


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## Rctec (Jan 3, 2016)

ed buller said:


> the sub is superior in sound to the voyager. Much closer to a classic moog sound.
> 
> e


Totally agree with Ed!


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## Prockamanisc (Jan 4, 2016)

Awesome. I'm gonna do the Sub 37, then. Thanks!


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## tmm (Jan 4, 2016)

I can't speak to the Voyager, but there are a lot of really great sounding Sub 37 user demos I'm finding. Same for the Boomstar 5089. Not so many with the SE80, but of those I've found, I haven't found one I didn't like. And despite on paper liking the idea of the SE80 better, I've liked the 5089 tones I'm hearing in user songs better. Decisions...

I'm intentionally not buying ASAP so I can really think it through, I don't get this quantity of spendable funds too often. I'm glad I have, because it's given me time to consider more fully which features are most important.

Q1: To those of you regularly using hardware synths in your projects, how important is it to you to have some level of recall (preset saving) available?

I started thinking about how I'd be using the synth for my work, and, though I'm reasonably confident in my ability to recreate / reapproximate a tone I've made, it would definitely be a lot easier to just have the exact tone saved, like I do with my soft synths. I've created a large enough library of my own soft synth patches that I don't typically start from scratch anymore, and it's really nice to just load the familiar patch and be done with no / minimal tweaking.

Taking that into consideration, I'm leaning more heavily toward the Sub 37 now (or possibly the Sub Phatty, to allow for additional gear in the budget).

Q2: When you're saving a patch on the Sub 37, what exactly gets saved?

Does it actually save all the parameter values, and then only update them when you move the knobs (or something like that)? I'm not at all familiar with how parameter saving / recall would work on an analog synth.

Considering that, in the end, having something that will get me a lot of really unique tones that I like and that's easy for me to use is what's most important, I'm also considering upping my budget just a little (by selling off a couple other items), picking up 2-3 smaller second hand units, and also picking up some really unique processors, stuff that my plugins wouldn't do as easily.

To that end, I'm considering something like this:
SE 5089 + Waldorf Streichfett + Red Panda Particle + Waldorf 2-Pole Filter + Twisted Electrons AY3

Thoughts?


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## dgburns (Jan 4, 2016)

tmm said:


> Q2: When you're saving a patch on the Sub 37, what exactly gets saved?



Everything that's needed to recall the sound as far as I can see.I'm using the beta plugin editor that is not yet available publicly.The plugin editor is fantastic and also has a librarian function.You can get a beta of the editor from Amos at Moog I imagine.
Actually I play around having the editor up on screen and go between the unit and the editor.Some things are faster with the knobs,some with the editor.The editor is a must have to me.


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## Vartio (Jan 4, 2016)

Elektron AK or A4 anyone? the new Overbridge daw integration and patch saving/recall with your project is pretty awesome.


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## tmm (Jan 4, 2016)

Vartio said:


> Elektron AK or A4 anyone? the new Overbridge daw integration and patch saving/recall with your project is pretty awesome.




See previous page:



tmm said:


> pdub said:
> 
> 
> > I've owned both the A4 and AK in the past and while you can do a lot with them... the raw sound never thrilled me.
> ...




Also, first post:



tmm said:


> ... I've owned both the Analog Four (loved the tone, HATED the interface)...


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## blougui (Jan 5, 2016)

PRO2 from DSI is et sound design beast and its seq wich sequence almost everything is a great feature as are its discret filters if one likes DSI tone. Its paraphony makes it a polyphonic beast.
Erik


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 5, 2016)

Well I wouldn't go so far as to call it a 'polyphonic beast', but it is fantastic.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 5, 2016)

Tone Deaf said:


> Moog Mother-32
> 
> Great standalone, with potential for integrating into a full eurorack set up.



Be careful of the impact on your studio/psyche : I started by ordering 2 Mothers, then I exchanged my trusty Roland SH-5 for a bunch of Eurorack modules. I still haven't gotten my Mothers yet, my SH-5 is gone, and all I dream about are wires (plug)!


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## blougui (Jan 5, 2016)

The Pro2 can be the brain of an Eurorack système if I understand well. - and Ned, sure, a polyphonic pet  Not fan of the sound, would like to test the Mother32 of wich I dig the sound heard on some online demos.
Erik


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 5, 2016)

I'm using my Pro-2 to send out its digital waveforms for Euro transformation, it's LFOs, out though the 4 CV outs, and as a main keyboard.


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## germancomponist (Jan 5, 2016)

I had so many horny synths and had sold them again to buy with the money new synths. I regret that so! :-(


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## tmm (Jan 6, 2016)

While weighing my options / putting together a potential purchase list, I also came across the Blue Lantern Dwarf Star. It's a semi modular analog synth with built-in 'vintagey' delay (possibly dual delays? can't tell exactly).

Any experience with these? It's in my budget, and the tone in the demos I listened to was to die for.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 6, 2016)

I don't know - looks more like a pulse generator than an analog synth: http://www.analoguehaven.com/bluelantern/dwarfstarvcn/


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## tmm (Jan 6, 2016)

Maybe they don't keep their website up-to-date?

This is the unit in question:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Lantern-Dwarf-Star-Semi-Modular-Synth-SYNTHESIZER-DEMO-PERFECT-CIRCUIT-/301807650586?hash=item464523471a:g:T8sAAOSwTapV59NN

It will show up in a YouTube search, too:


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## geoffreyvernon (Jan 6, 2016)

Moog Sub 37. ARP Odyssey. Korg MS-20 Mini. Moog Slim Phatty. Used every one of them and definitely would go out and buy them in an instant. and I did. Lol!


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## SymphonicSamples (Jan 7, 2016)

I spent a few hours playing with a Sub 37 creating sounds and was amazed at how diverse the sound palette could be and how organic the synth could sound. Everything on the front panel can be controllable / recorded via CC so some unique sounds can be achieved. Also the Software editor is very powerful and a brilliant marriage to the synth.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 7, 2016)

Interesting review of the Dwarf Star: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11414054-post28.html


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## blougui (Jan 7, 2016)

i was on the fence to buy a Dwarf, I mean swapping it with my M3x McBeth but the seller changed his mind. Seems an interesting unit, sounddesignish and fun.
Erik


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## tmm (Jan 7, 2016)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> Interesting review of the Dwarf Star: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11414054-post28.html



Thanks for that, Ned, interesting read. Sounds like he doesn't favor it too much, but doesn't want to commit to saying so without giving it some time. In the same thread, Fiddlestickz pretty adequately demonstrates the crazy thick sound of the Dwarf Star. The Perfect Circuit demo shows it doing more standard, melodic playing too, rather than just the crazy modular-type stuff.

I'm pretty convinced that the Sub 37 is the way I'm going to go. The sound seems awesome from what I can tell, and adding the software in makes it into a very refined choice of an analog synth. Just giving it a little more time to make sure that's the way I want to go.



geoffreyvernon said:


> Moog Sub 37. ARP Odyssey. Korg MS-20 Mini. Moog Slim Phatty. Used every one of them and definitely would go out and buy them in an instant. and I did. Lol!



Don't the Sub 37 and Slim Phatty have the same voice? Or is it just the Sub 37 and Sub Phatty?


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## pdub (Jan 7, 2016)

The two Subs share the same engine the Slim is different.


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## geoffreyvernon (Jan 7, 2016)

tmm said:


> Thanks for that, Ned, interesting read. Sounds like he doesn't favor it too much, but doesn't want to commit to saying so without giving it some time. In the same thread, Fiddlestickz pretty adequately demonstrates the crazy thick sound of the Dwarf Star. The Perfect Circuit demo shows it doing more standard, melodic playing too, rather than just the crazy modular-type stuff.
> 
> I'm pretty convinced that the Sub 37 is the way I'm going to go. The sound seems awesome from what I can tell, and adding the software in makes it into a very refined choice of an analog synth. Just giving it a little more time to make sure that's the way I want to go.
> 
> ...


Subs are the same. Slim has a different voicing.  i use them both extensively on all the scores I do!


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## tmm (Jan 31, 2016)

Little follow-up here - sorry, I didn't get any sounds worth posting, but it kind of makes sense, considering the major expenditure so far doesn't make any of its own sounds kfhkh

So, the Linnstrument is amazing. What I noticed almost immediately was that, despite it being a completely new style of controller, I was able to figure it out without referencing the manual. Testament to it's great design, and the build quality is top notch. I love that I can hook it up to both my computer and iPad, because I do a lot of sketching on the iPad while I'm traveling.

I'd consider myself at the tail end of the honeymoon, that time when you start transitioning from, "this is so cool, how many different fascinating light shows can I make" to "how will I use this to make my production more efficient".

It's the culling period, when you start to get an idea whether or not something is going to stick around long term.

Out of a Linnstrument, Particle, BlueSky, and Steichfett, the only one that's sticking around is the Linnstrument.

In fact, the others are already gone. It's like they say about human attraction, you know pretty instantly if something is going to work for you or not. It took one evening of experimentation with the 4 units to let me know I had no interest in keeping the other 3 around. The Particle got old after around 30 min, and especially after I tried duplicating it with my plugs (Glitchmachines plugs do the same, better). Same with the Streichfett. The BlueSky is great, and I knew it was from previous guitar-based experience, but I pretty quickly realized I like my TSAR-1, Sparkverb, and Valhalla plugs much better.

In other news, I've also had the chance to jam on a Sub 37 a few times now, as well as some vintage analog synths like a Korg Delta, SH-101, Yamaha CS5, and Moog Source. This has lead to 3 more points of clarity for me: 1) I need something that can save presets, 2) I'm going to need at least a duophonic instrument for it to keep my interest, and 3) the Sub 37 is not for me. I got bored with the others pretty quickly. The Sub 37 was great, hence why I came back a few times, and I have no doubt I could come up with usable sounds on it, but I don't know if I liked it enough to want to sink that kind of $ into it.

I've recently heard a couple demos of people using DSI Tempests as 6-voice polys, and I loved the results. I really like the idea of a machine with easy to access / use sequencing capabilities. I might be able to get over the menu diving if it's easy enough to use. If I'm not mistaken, the Tempest is the brainchild of both Dave Smith and Roger Linn?

Thoughts on the Tempest?


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## synthpunk (Jan 31, 2016)

MFB Dominion 1
Near impossible to find without waiting 3-4 months but worth it. Handmade in Berlin, very good build quality, CV interfacing to eurorack, and sounds brilliant.


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## bonebones (Feb 1, 2016)

I have to say, having used, owned or played with most analogues over the years the sub37 is perfection. And it's a Moog. Whilst there are literally hundreds of options the Sub37 is really versatile for a mono (duo) synth. It can do 303, it can do resonant sub, it can do sci fi fx, it can do sequences and arps. The overdrive capabilities give it a really unique signature sound too


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## tmm (Mar 11, 2016)

Following-up on this. I did end up picking up a Tempest, and a Tempest bank intended for use as a 6-voice poly. For a machine that does require some menu diving, I have to say that it was very intuitive. Before jumping in, I watched Roger Linn's YT instructional on how to use the Tempest, and was able to hit the ground running when I started programming in the Tempest, and very quickly created a modest bank of patches that I enjoyed playing. No surprises in programming requirements, which was nice. I really loved how many different modes were available, very inspirational. The Curtis filter is awesome.

All said and done, though, after I stopped playing around with the machine itself and started trying to write with it integrated into my rig, level-of-integration and the ability to tweak quickly on the fly became an issue for me, and for the sake of finishing projects on time, I reverted back to my tried and true stable of soft synths.

I'm starting to think that, for me, the best / most useful hardware is going to be something that's useful for creating unique, deep sounds that I will then sample and sequence using Falcon / Kontakt / etc. I think I'll stop aiming for something I would use as a live / standalone instrument in it's own right.

To that end, I'm starting to look more into modular (and not necessarily analog) gear. It seems like the possibilities for creating really unique, interesting, yet usable sounds are abundant in that environment (though it's tough to find good product demos that don't involve a totally uninspiring, sequenced loop that the musician then uses to record 12 minutes of atonal bleep bloop garble).

Thoughts on that? I'm currently most interested in Mutable Instruments' Clouds and Elements, I think I could get a lot of interesting sampled material out of those without a ton of extra modules (if any).


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## Øivind (Mar 12, 2016)

+1 for the Moog Sub 37, just bought one and with the standalone/vst/plug-in Editor that is released soon by Moog, it's crazy awesome. The option to instantly save/recall presets and fine tune and see feedback with an onscreen replicated GUI of the Sub 37 is really something else. For me this just become the best of both worlds.

edit: screens of the editor
http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24258&hilit=editor+screenshot&start=15#p149033


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## Prockamanisc (Sep 16, 2019)

ed buller said:


> the sub is superior in sound to the voyager. Much closer to a classic moog sound


I'm going back to this thread because I bought a Sub37 as a result of it. After 3 or so years of trying at every opportunity, I could never find a place for it in anything that I did. 

But this summer I got a Voyager, and HOLY SHIT, it's everything that I was missing from the Sub37. The Sub37 sounds like a toy, and the Voyager sounds like the real thing. After years of Arturia's Minimoog (which has been great to me) and years of the Sub37, when I first played my Voyager, I started to cry. No joke.

In my most recent score, I used the Voyager as a bass, lead, and FX in more cues than not. It's like night and day. Am I mistaken for saying that the Sub37 just doesn't have the same quality as the Voyager? Was I just not able to figure out how to use it? It was just lacking in richness, to my ears. It sounds like an NES game.


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## ed buller (Sep 16, 2019)

Prockamanisc said:


> I'm going back to this thread because I bought a Sub37 as a result of it. After 3 or so years of trying at every opportunity, I could never find a place for it in anything that I did.
> 
> But this summer I got a Voyager, and HOLY SHIT, it's everything that I was missing from the Sub37. The Sub37 sounds like a toy, and the Voyager sounds like the real thing. After years of Arturia's Minimoog (which has been great to me) and years of the Sub37, when I first played my Voyager, I started to cry. No joke.
> 
> In my most recent score, I used the Voyager as a bass, lead, and FX in more cues than not. It's like night and day. Am I mistaken for saying that the Sub37 just doesn't have the same quality as the Voyager? Was I just not able to figure out how to use it? It was just lacking in richness, to my ears. It sounds like an NES game.



how odd..well I found the opposite as do pretty much all the synth player programmers I work with.....no one kept their voyagers...and of course now the MINIMOOG is back.....most people I work with/Know...bought that 

best

ed


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## joebaggan (Sep 16, 2019)

chimuelo said:


> Build a Eurorack and stop wasting time and money.
> Put these 1 Trick Poneys on ebay while they still fetch a few dollars.



Hehe, this is funny. Eurorack is the epitome of a never ending money pit.


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## Greg (Sep 16, 2019)

Prophet 6 desktop module. For $500 more you get true poly and a sound that blows away the sub 37 imo. It is such a wonderful synth for film scoring because of the cinematic sound and inspiring playability.

If you want interesting sounds, you need the harmony that poly gives you. Modular can't really do that well without spending A LOT.


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## chimuelo (Sep 16, 2019)

joebaggan said:


> Hehe, this is funny. Eurorack is the epitome of a never ending money pit.



Indeed it is, but designing your own signature sounds is most gratifying.
But Ive either owned or have most of the big beasts of yore and after 30 years seek eversion elsewhere on the island...


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## shponglefan (Sep 16, 2019)

joebaggan said:


> Hehe, this is funny. Eurorack is the epitome of a never ending money pit.



Just one more module...


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 16, 2019)

I've owned dozens of synths over the years. The only one I kept was the Moog Voyager.

I've moved away from poly as I prefer to split the voices to different sounds and avoid block chords, so I find a mono-synth is enough. Having three oscillators also makes a huge difference!

I have one full bank of custom patches that I did myself, but I also use some of the ones provided. The search-by-category feature is really helpful for quickly going through patches to make a good decision on bass, lead, etc., based on resonance and other factors. Overall, a very quick interface to work with.

I also use the synth as a MIDI controller when working with computer-based sounds that don't demand a fully weighted keybed. The semi-weighted keys are quite expressive, and it has the most complete MIDI spec and smoothness (no missing values or jumps, whether for velocity, aftertouch, etc.), of any that I've ever owned.

Only Arturia's KeyLab series got similar marks, but I didn't really have desk space for even the older slim-line version so it was redundant to keep it when the Voyager suffices for most purposes.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 16, 2019)

For the original budget of $500 however, the Voyager won't cut it. 

An interesting option, that I plan to buy as soon as my next GC Bucks Certificate arrives, is the Arturia MicroFreak, which actually implements PolyAT and thus makes it an interesting MIDI Controller for hardware and software synths that support that feature.

It's often only $269, and has a button accordion style design to it (especially if one thinks of Cajun/Zydeco accordions), with non-moving sensor zones instead of standard keys, a la Don Buchla. An unusual synth, with mixed reviews, but probably a good learning tool.


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## vitocorleone123 (Sep 16, 2019)

Not sure about a rec, but also check out synthtopia for gear news. There's some interesting stuff (less expensive overall) coming out in the nearish future. Like the Modal Argon8.


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## dgburns (Sep 16, 2019)

Greg said:


> Prophet 6 desktop module. For $500 more you get true poly and a sound that blows away the sub 37 imo. It is such a wonderful synth for film scoring because of the cinematic sound and inspiring playability.
> 
> If you want interesting sounds, you need the harmony that poly gives you. Modular can't really do that well without spending A LOT.



Actually I think the Sub37 complements the Prophet 6 well. They just don’t cover the same ground, imho.


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## dpasdernick (Sep 16, 2019)

The Roland JD990 is not analog but it sounds larger than life. Especially with the Vintage Synth card installed. I turned mine on the other day and the sound was so fat I gained 20 lbs just playing a Bb chord.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 16, 2019)

Did you say B-flat or Be-fat?


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## Solarsentinel (Sep 17, 2019)

The Sub 37 seems to be really a good option for you. May have you tried the Grandmother? It can not save presets and it's not paraphonic but the sound is gorgeous.
The arturia Minibrute 2 is also a beast in sound design.
If you want a truly goog VA synth there is the novation Peak. you can do all sorts of things with this, very very powerfull and full midi controlled.
The new korg minilogue XD is also good but just 4 notes polyphony.

But if you don't do much pad sounds and if you use the synth on a studio environnement i strongly recommend the sub 37. It has a soft for use it like a VST synth into a DAW, and you have a duo paraphonic beast.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 17, 2019)

Oh wow, I didn't notice this is a zombie thread. We've probably thoroughly confused anyone who is hoping to use this to make a decision, with so many completely contrary recommendations.


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## Greg (Sep 17, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Oh wow, I didn't notice this is a zombie thread. We've probably thoroughly confused anyone who is hoping to use this to make a decision, with so many completely contrary recommendations.



Hahahah oops


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## gjelul (Sep 17, 2019)

-- Sub 37 is a no brainer.

-- MFB Dominion 1, if you're looking for something more eclectic.

-- Behringer DeepMind, if a poly is needed.


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## ed buller (Sep 17, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> Oh wow, I didn't notice this is a zombie thread. We've probably thoroughly confused anyone who is hoping to use this to make a decision, with so many completely contrary recommendations.



same as anything creative really. Synths are hard now cos there are soooo many options. But i'm old school , grew up on a VCS3...so I really don't care for a lot of the modern stuff...sounds thin and harsh. The new OB-6 is a blasts from the past..and the Behringer clones are amazing...

best

ed


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## DerGeist (Sep 17, 2019)

Since this is a zombie thread and it didn't exit at the time The Behringer model D is also a contender. Mine sits beside my phatty and has no trouble hanging.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 17, 2019)

"-- Sub 37 is a no brainer. "

Like I said, zombie thread.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 17, 2019)

I'm surprised to keep reading such high praise for Behringer's Model D knock-off. I'm almost afraid to check one out, lest I regret the $$$ spent on my Voyager.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 17, 2019)

Don't underrate the utility of mono-synths for effects and pads either. I lean more towards digital synths for long evolving pads and poly pads, but I get a lot of action out of my Voyager for such duties. With OSC de-tuning, you often can achieve the illusion of poly anyway.


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## slateandash (Sep 17, 2019)

Greg said:


> Prophet 6 desktop module. For $500 more you get true poly and a sound that blows away the sub 37 imo. It is such a wonderful synth for film scoring because of the cinematic sound and inspiring playability.
> 
> If you want interesting sounds, you need the harmony that poly gives you. Modular can't really do that well without spending A LOT.


Personally prefer the Rev2 to the 6. You can get way more interesting stuff out of it.


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## Mark Schmieder (Sep 17, 2019)

I forget; is the Rev2 the one that is paraphonic, or is it the slight revision of the P8 (which I owned for a few years)?


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## slateandash (Sep 17, 2019)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I forget; is the Rev2 the one that is paraphonic, or is it the slight revision of the P8 (which I owned for a few years)?


You can get the rev2 in 8 or 16 voice polyphonic


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## Greg (Sep 17, 2019)

slateandash said:


> Personally prefer the Rev2 to the 6. You can get way more interesting stuff out of it.



For sure, I'd have bought one if it wasn't for the DCOs. Really don't like their tone


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## pmountford (Mar 13, 2021)

Be interested to revisit this thread now we've had a few more analog synths come along. Is the Sub 37 still the same no brainer or are there other faves taking it's crown now?


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 13, 2021)

I had no idea the Sub 37 had taken the crown of anything.


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## pmountford (Mar 13, 2021)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> I had no idea the Sub 37 had taken the crown of anything.


Just from the praise it was getting several years ago on this thread. Always interested to hear your thoughts.... (Carrying on from our conversation before @Ned Bouhalassa I've had to rule out the Grandmother as it's not going to suit my workflow - shame, it sounds great).


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 13, 2021)

I just think that there are now so many terrific analog synths, no one instrument can be the best of the lot anymore. It’s another golden age for synthesizers.


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## vitocorleone123 (Mar 13, 2021)

Ned Bouhalassa said:


> I just think that there are now so many terrific analog synths, no one instrument can be the best of the lot anymore. It’s another golden age for synthesizers.


And digital synths, too!

I’ve only been into hardware 3 years, and not once did I ever have to consider a Sub37.


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## Mark Schmieder (Mar 13, 2021)

Haha, I just placed a pre-order for what is the centennial edition of arguably the first synth: the Claravox edition of the Moog Theremin. I was all set on the Etherwave Plus, but it's been discontinued and now fetches prices HIGHER than the Claravox, so it was a "no-brainer".

This edition has a traditional analog mode combined with a digital mode for more waveforms and features, and also supplies C/V outputs to connect with other synths as a highly expressive interface.

Other than that, I spent five months in Durham NC at a startup company and only brought my clothes and kitchen stuff (and computer) with me on the 3100 mile drive, so I desperately needed an instrument when I arrived, and lucked out with a steeply marked down Sequential Prophet XL.

It was a little tricky getting it back to the west coast in my tiny car on the way back from that job, but I managed.  

I've owned quite a few Dave Smith synths over the years, and debated over this one and a couple of others, but ultimately what sold me was that this could be a bread and butter gigging keyboard of sorts, and I may need one of those again when the pandemic lifts, for my jazz combo.

This one is 76 keys with a hefty semi-weighted action that is the perfect balance for the analog synth sounds and the imported samples that you can make available via USB.

I had sold my Prophet 12 a few years earlier, never warming to it as an overall synth even though it was quite powerful and possibly Dave's most extensive synth architecture yet. I feel a more immediate connection to the XL, perhaps due to its filters. I might have reacted similarly to the Pro 3.


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## bonebones (Mar 13, 2021)

pmountford said:


> Be interested to revisit this thread now we've had a few more analog synths come along. Is the Sub 37 still the same no brainer or are there other faves taking it's crown now?


I own many old and new analog synths and there is something about the Sub 37 that sounds so warm and creamy. The drive into the filter sounds different to any other drive on any other synth. It’s just so pure I can’t replicate bass like that on any other synth of mine-not the moog one, not the matrix brute. The only thing that comes close for mine is my Roland SH2. Sub37 is outstanding.


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## Mark Schmieder (Mar 13, 2021)

If I didn't already have a Voyager, I probably would buy a Sub37. My housemates recently bought the Grandmother and she's a beast as is DFAM.


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## pmountford (Mar 13, 2021)

Mark Schmieder said:


> If I didn't already have a Voyager, I probably would buy a Sub37. My housemates recently bought the Grandmother and she's a beast as is DFAM.


I recently picked up a DFAM and it's from playing with that tone that makes me want to try a Moog synth. The Matrixbrute is interesting but it's still not got the Moog sound I'm looking for. The Grandmother sounds great from what I've heard but I prefer somewhere to store patches. Sub 37 is now on the radar.


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## Prockamanisc (Mar 17, 2021)

pmountford said:


> Be interested to revisit this thread now we've had a few more analog synths come along. Is the Sub 37 still the same no brainer or are there other faves taking it's crown now?


I've actually been meaning to post a response. Because of this thread, I bought a Sub 37. I hated it. But I didn't know that I hated it, I just thought that I wasn't using it right. I tried to use it in everything I wrote, and I never liked anything I was able to come up with. 

Then I got a Voyager. I absolutely love the Voyager. I literally cried when I first played it, because it was finally the sound I'd been chasing for years. The Voyager makes it into 80% of the things that I write, whether it's stylistically appropriate or not. So while I genuinely appreciate the comments from people that led me to getting the Sub 37 (Ed and Hans were the comments that put me over the edge), it was just not for me.


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## pmountford (Mar 18, 2021)

Prockamanisc said:


> Because of this thread, I bought a Sub 37. I hated it. But I didn't know that I hated it



I read this a couple of hours before mine turned up this morning so your comment raised an eyebrow..

All I can say is that it's great that we don't all like/dislike the same things. I'm very much warming to the tone of this Moog filter so far. Quite a different timbre to anything else I've got, so atleast I'm happy.

Would be great if there's some sort of synthfest this year where I can actually try these instruments before purchasing.


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## Double Helix (Mar 18, 2021)

I have a Sub37 that I hand-delivered to Asheville for the Subsequent37 upgrade (same sound engine, but twice as much headroom plus a much better keybed) -- but I came here to post that I also have a Korg Radias: This unit is no longer manufactured, but it would be easy to check out to demos on YT.
A (very) few will pop up on Reverb from time to time. I'd considered selling my Radias for a new-at-the-time Korg Minilogue XD, but I am relieved that mine did not sell (asking price was on the high side). It is polyphonic (with mono option), *very* deep with a unique sound engine, a flexible arpeggiator, and several built-in effects.
The Radias and the Subsequent37 cover a w-i-d-e range and both have Omnisphere hardware integration.
. . . just another rara avis for anyone looking for options analog synth-wise.


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## derschoenekarsten (Mar 27, 2021)

While they're not the sexiest instruments, I'd definitely take a look at the Novation product range. Both Bass Station II and Peak should be within budget. The Novation synths may not be the most colorful synths right out of the box, but that "lack of character" makes them very malleable. No matter whether I'm looking 70s monosynth lead action, 80s arps, 90s acid basslines or some weird glitchy early 00s stuff - it's probably in there. Also they take pedals really well - run low output into a od/fuzz pedal and use the volume knob like you would with a guitar...


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## chocobitz825 (Mar 27, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> And digital synths, too!
> 
> I’ve only been into hardware 3 years, and not once did I ever have to consider a Sub37.


thank goodness for hardware synths. killed my VI GAS. Now I've picked up 8 hardsynths from new to old on auction and new for a fraction of what I was spending on VIs. So many great synths out there but unlike with VI's it can be a lot clearer where your gear overlaps with others, so theres (for me at least) less desire to give into GAS. Sub37 sounds interesting, but I think I wont look into that into i tear the wheels off of what I have no that can do similar.


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## Ned Bouhalassa (Mar 27, 2021)

derschoenekarsten said:


> While they're not the sexiest instruments, I'd definitely take a look at the Novation product range. Both Bass Station II and Peak should be within budget. The Novation synths may not be the most colorful synths right out of the box, but that "lack of character" makes them very malleable. No matter whether I'm looking 70s monosynth lead action, 80s arps, 90s acid basslines or some weird glitchy early 00s stuff - it's probably in there. Also they take pedals really well - run low output into a od/fuzz pedal and use the volume knob like you would with a guitar...


Agree 100%. I own a BS II, and it’s extremely fun, full of possibilities.


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## pmountford (Mar 27, 2021)

derschoenekarsten said:


> While they're not the sexiest instruments, I'd definitely take a look at the Novation product range. Both Bass Station II and Peak should be within budget.


If this is directed at me then I'm with you on Novation. The Summit (Peak x2 plus keyboard) was my first HW synth purchase at the end of last year and I'm surprised it doesn't get more press. I absolutely love mine. 

The Sub37 is the newest synth (only a couple of weeks) to my arsenal so the jury is still out on it as I've not had long enough with it.

As a relative synth noobie I'm happy to hear that while there are similarities, they all occupy their own sonic space.


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## pmountford (Mar 27, 2021)

chocobitz825 said:


> thank goodness for hardware synths. killed my VI GAS.


I guess I shouldn't really say this on a VI forum...but its the same here too. Or atleast it's certainly reduced the number of library purchases for me atm.


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