# Spitfire audio symphonic libraries - tutorial on how to fix the shorts



## Marma (Sep 11, 2019)

I don't know about you, but I've been frustrated sick over the shorts of the Spitfire libraries. They play until the end and there is no way to shorten them except for using the time machine ones (and they really suck).
So I've found a way around it and it sounds really amazing!
EDIT: while there is a feature (untimed RT) for the staccato samples built in, there is none for the spiccato or pizzicato, and it really makes a difference when it comes to the basses and cello.
Check it out here:


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## paulthomson (Sep 11, 2019)

Just logged in and saw this - you have seen this on p13 of the manual?

"SHORT ARTICULATIONS RT - This option allows you to toggle whether staccato/tenuto/marcato notes have a release trigger that plays on release. This lets you tighten up staccatos or end marcatos/tenutos earlier than they were recorded."


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## jamwerks (Sep 11, 2019)

Marma said:


> I don't know about you, but I've been frustrated sick over the shorts of the Spitfire libraries. They play until the end and there is no way to shorten them except for using the time machine ones (and they really suck).
> So I've found a way around it and it sounds really amazing!
> Check it out here:


What do you mean "way around"? That's how they're supposed to work.


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## mistermister (Sep 11, 2019)

Marma said:


> So I've found a way around it


This option here does better (adds release) and is built into the software. Most Spitfire libraries have it:


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## Marma (Sep 11, 2019)

I tried it, it works well on the shorts, but that option is not available on the spiccato or pizzicato samples. Or is it?
Here is a comparison of the spiccato violins with and without the custom ADSR enabled:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=19NCrIgAXSV2C09MRMBTbNhNixzRVrW48 (spiccato with adsr)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ENjw0-GlXEibDiv8Ve-ze6uPn6VXiuoV (spiccato without adsr)


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## mistermister (Sep 11, 2019)

Marma said:


> I tried it, it works well on the shorts, but that option is not available on the spiccato samples. Or is it?
> Here is a comparison of the spiccato violins with and without the custom ADSR enabled:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=19NCrIgAXSV2C09MRMBTbNhNixzRVrW48 (spiccato with adsr)
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ENjw0-GlXEibDiv8Ve-ze6uPn6VXiuoV (spiccato without adsr)


Your version with the ADSR does not sound realistic as you are removing the room presence in the first few notes that is suddenly there in the latter. Spiccato is pretty much as short of a note as strings can play.

If you want less tail, a better way would be to mix in more of a closer mic (stereo mix, or C mic).


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## Marma (Sep 11, 2019)

Well, that's up to you. Did you watch the whole video and listen to the double bass comparison playing spiccato before and after the edit? Besides, when everything is fully orchestrated, you won't hear the fact that the room presence is cut. But you will hear the difference in articulation. 
Download the multis, and play around with it! That would be my advice. 
Basically, I'll just remove the custom edit on the shorts and keep it for the pizzicato and spiccato. Especially for the basses and cello.


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## Marma (Sep 11, 2019)

paulthomson said:


> Just logged in and saw this - you have seen this on p13 of the manual?
> 
> "SHORT ARTICULATIONS RT - This option allows you to toggle whether staccato/tenuto/marcato notes have a release trigger that plays on release. This lets you tighten up staccatos or end marcatos/tenutos earlier than they were recorded."


Hi Paul, 
Thanks for your reply.
It works great for shorts but is unavailable for spiccato patches or pizzicato. Nor is it available for most woodwinds staccato and brass staccato. 
Here are comparisons between violin (see above), alto flute and solo horn, with and without the custom ADSR. Listen for yourself. I find that in the mix, having more precise articulations will help a lot, especially for the low instruments. 
You could say you have the staccatissimo on some of the samples, but it's also nice to be able to add phrasing and nuance within a single patch to keep a certain sound homogeneity. 

Anyways, hope you see the advantage of adding the untimed RT feature to the rest of the samples, including the pizzicato!


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## Jdiggity1 (Sep 11, 2019)

It's a useful video, not only for the owners of the library in question. Thanks for sharing!
But the hyperbolic language ("*horrible* shorts", "they really suck") rubs people the wrong way before even pressing play. It'd probably be wise to re position the post (and video) as an educational resource, and not an attack on a product.


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## Marma (Sep 11, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> It's a useful video, not only for the owners of the library in question. Thanks for sharing!
> But the hyperbolic language ("*horrible* shorts", "they really suck") rubs people the wrong way before even pressing play. It'd probably be wise to re position the post (and video) as an educational resource, and not an attack on a product.


Thanks, you're right, sorry about that. It's just that I've had it for a year or so, and while it's the best sound quality I've heard for nearly all of the samples, the spiccato and other staccato whithout the untimed RT feature has been really bugging me... But you're right, I should have been more measured in my language. (But I stand by the time machine comment.. I tried them and it's really not good...)


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## JohannesR (Sep 11, 2019)

paulthomson said:


> Just logged in and saw this - you have seen this on p13 of the manual?
> 
> "SHORT ARTICULATIONS RT - This option allows you to toggle whether staccato/tenuto/marcato notes have a release trigger that plays on release. This lets you tighten up staccatos or end marcatos/tenutos earlier than they were recorded."


Thanks for chiming in. Does this work with studio strings as well? Staccatos are sorely missed from that library!!


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## Marma (Sep 11, 2019)

I'm dropping a few more comparisons here.
Violins with and without ADSR. Same for Cello and Bass sections.
You'll see that there is much more detail and less muddyness in the sound with ADSR, even if you loose a bit of the room ambiance. It's not as good as the equivalent of the untimed RT for the staccato, but it's still better than the original samples with no envelope IMO.


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## mistermister (Sep 11, 2019)

Marma said:


> I'm dropping a few more comparisons here.
> Violins with and without ADSR. Same for Cello and Bass sections.
> You'll see that there is much more detail and less muddyness in the sound with ADSR, even if you loose a bit of the room ambiance. It's not as good as the equivalent of the untimed RT for the staccato, but it's still better than the original samples with no envelope IMO.


I mean, you're basically removing the room and the realistic sound of the room decaying. It sounds like a large hall (which it is) with the last half of the sound unrealistically faded out.

All for experimenting and customising your library but have to ask what the point is in getting and using Spitfire Audio's SSO libraries if you're going to unrealistically remove the key feature in them (the room)?

To be honest, your then labelling them as 'horrible shorts' and suggesting a 'fix' (it's not - this is your personal choice to trade realism and the room they record in for reduced-muddiness and perceived agility) is likely to rub some people the wrong way.


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## Marma (Sep 11, 2019)

Fair enough. It's a personal preference then. I should have been more diplomatic in the way I presented it. The thing is, I *can* use the room ambiance if I want to, I simply need to make the samples longer, but when I play very short samples before a long one, the muddiness of the short ones before don't add up to the long ones after, which means I don't necessarily loose the room ambiance, just reduce the overlay of several ambiances on top of each other, which is especially useful for the basses.


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## mistermister (Sep 11, 2019)

But don't you realize the ambiences overlay on top of each other in a real performance? Again, if you want that sound, that's perfectly fine. It just strikes me as easier to either use a close mic or a different company's library that isn't recorded in a location like Air?


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## Marma (Sep 12, 2019)

Well, I'll be composing using this system, and I'll share the works when it's finished using the edited samples and the original, so everyone can listen for themselves and decide which is better.. Sounds good?


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## youngpokie (Jan 7, 2020)

Marma said:


> I'm dropping a few more comparisons here.
> Violins with and without ADSR. Same for Cello and Bass sections.
> You'll see that there is much more detail and less muddyness in the sound with ADSR, even if you loose a bit of the room ambiance. It's not as good as the equivalent of the untimed RT for the staccato, but it's still better than the original samples with no envelope IMO.



Oh my god, this is incredible, I spent most of the day today working on exactly this. 

My reference track for string spiccattos is Myaskovsky Symphony #4, recent recording by Jarvi, with very clear, controlled and detailed spiccatos on cellos, basses, and at the same time with a lot of color, room and ambience. That piece is really driven by spiccato and staccato. 

What you're showing here is exactly what I've been trying to get to. I think you're spot on in terms of control and precision over spiccato, so I'm going to be studying your tutorial - thank you.


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## Philip Vasta (Jan 7, 2020)

Not to derail the thread, but why on Earth doesn't Studio Strings have staccato? I did know this before buying and am very pleased so far, but it just seems like such glaring omission. I mean, there are tons of esoteric articulations in the library but not, of all things, staccato. Just curious if anyone knows why.


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## youngpokie (Jan 7, 2020)

Philip Vasta said:


> Not to derail the thread, but why on Earth doesn't Studio Strings have staccato? I did know this before buying and am very pleased so far, but it just seems like such glaring omission. I mean, there are tons of esoteric articulations in the library but not, of all things, staccato. Just curious if anyone knows why.



I understand there was quite a debate on spiccato vs staccato at Spitfire and here.

For what it’s worth, the traditional definition of staccato is half duration of what’s written and without accent, so maybe that’s what they had in mind and hence no patch?


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## Philip Vasta (Jan 7, 2020)

youngpokie said:


> I understand there was quite a debate on spiccato vs staccato at Spitfire and here.
> 
> For what it’s worth, the traditional definition of staccato is half duration of what’s written and without accent, so maybe that’s what they had in mind and hence no patch?



Lol yeah I gathered that there had been a debate upon reading one person's comment during the sale period. Interesting thought about the definition of the word though, I'd never learned it that way - just to play staccato as detached. I think I'll use the Short Brushed Spiccato as a substitute, it sounds fairly similar to what I'm looking for in any case.


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## robgb (Jan 8, 2020)

I suspect most of the people criticizing your approach have not bothered to actually watch your video. Great technique. Thank you.


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