# Kontakt 3 is coming...



## Dynamitec (Sep 12, 2007)

Take a look here:
http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=kontakt3new (http://www.native-instruments.com/index ... ontakt3new)

8)


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## Big Bob (Sep 12, 2007)

Hi Benj,

Yeah I saw that this morning but it sure didn't say much about KSP improvements. Are there any? All I saw was something about multi-tabbed something or other :? 

God Bless,

Bob


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## Thonex (Sep 12, 2007)

Heh... the first thing I noticed (right off the bat) is that when you look at the enlarged picture of the new interface... the cello patch is only playing 2 notes.... and the HD and CPU meter are showing quite a hit with only 2 notes being played in K3 :lol: :lol: :lol: :? :roll: 

We'll see.

T


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## Reegs (Sep 12, 2007)

It must be some effect chain they're running it through, like convolution.

I hope??


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## Andreas Moisa (Sep 12, 2007)

No 64bit? These guys are kidding, really. What does a sampler need? RAM.
I'll buy anyway and they know it...


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## Waywyn (Sep 12, 2007)

Yay, looking forward to it!

I also made my thoughts about the 64bit issues and I am not sure if my thinking might be right, but why does K3 have to be 64 bit anyway?

I mean every 32 bit application runs on 64 bit anyway, right?
So if there is a maximum to 2GB per application, why would I need 8 GB to only one instance of K3 when I can open up several instances? The RAM will be managed by the sequencer anyway, didn't it?

Besides all that, I never made it to get 8GB in one instance of K2 - not even a standalone instance.

So, why there would be need for K3 to be 64 bit?


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## dannthr (Sep 12, 2007)

bitbridge


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## sonomusic (Sep 12, 2007)

If you're say "Bitbridge" to say 32-bit plugs don't work well in a 64-bit DAW then I'm in complete agreement.

32-bit plugs work great if the application you're working in is 32-bit even if your OS is 64-bit. But the only implementation I'm familiar with running 32-bit plugs in a 64-bit app has been using Sonar with Bitbridge...and it was a disaster. 

This is why a lot of us want true 64-bit plugs. Not only for the extra performance you get, but just for the sake of compatibility.

I'm now on Cubase 4 and am looking forward to their 64-bit version. I'm hoping their solution to counter Bitbridge is far more robust. Or at least works.


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## synthetic (Sep 14, 2007)

> After all, I can't get 64-bit drivers or versions for my host, most of my plugins, and nearly all of my hardware yet (except dodgy beta versions).



There's your answer. How can anyone develop a 64-bit plug-in when the hosts aren't 64-bit? It's pointless until the hosts are there - there's no way to test the software. I know, Cubase is 64-bit, but what about Logic? Will there be a new AU standard for 64-bit plug-ins? We'll find out after Leopard comes out. 

Not to mention: [the effort to port to 64-bit] > [the users asking for 64-bit support]. Present company excluded. 

Now stand-alone hosts, that's a different matter entirely.


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## sonomusic (Sep 14, 2007)

> How can anyone develop a 64-bit plug-in when the hosts aren't 64-bit? It's pointless until the hosts are there - there's no way to test the software.



I've had a 64-bit host for almost two years now. It started with Sonar 5.2, and now they are about to release Sonar 7. And as far as hardware, M-audio's Betas have worked fine for two years, too. And look at Edirol. They have 64-Bit drivers (including those for Vista 64 available for their keyboards and audio interfaces for some time now.)

There's been plenty available to test it with. EW figured out a way to test PLAY.


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## synthetic (Sep 14, 2007)

sonomusic @ Fri Sep 14 said:


> I've had a 64-bit host for almost two years now. It started with Sonar 5.2, and now they are about to release Sonar 7. And as far as hardware, M-audio's Betas have worked fine for two years, too. And look at Edirol. They have 64-Bit drivers (including those for Vista 64 available for their keyboards and audio interfaces for some time now.)



The point I was trying to make was, Apple's 64-bit OS isn't out yet, drivers are still catching up to Vista 64, etc. We're not quite there yet, and statements that say that the software is a total failure because it's not 64-bit – that's just so ridiculous that I could have only read it on the internet. 

(BTW, can someone explain to me why I'm defending Kontakt? :? )



> There's been plenty available to test it with. EW figured out a way to test PLAY.



There you go. Run out and get PLAY. (o)


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## Terryg (Sep 20, 2007)

It has --I think-- only one feature (only one feature?) I care about: auto keymapping on import. Emu X does that really well, but I can see using K3 for that alone in some cases.


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## JustinW (Sep 20, 2007)

Kosmetik3


Thanks for the term Nickie.


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## Waywyn (Sep 21, 2007)

So, isn't it a bit like holding the pistol to your head if the company says, that they won't do 64 bit?

Or will there be a new sampler? Which sampler besides PLAY is 64 bit ready anyway?
Leaving PLAY completely aside, I still want a sampler which is a sampler in terms of tweaking and editing my samples and apply scripts to the programs, play loops and be able to pitch, stretch and use other stuff on the samples.

I can't imagine that the top1 sampler isn't going 64 bit. This would kinda mean a very huge loss to the company. In a few years everyone will work on 64 bit because it is simply a ressource issue.

Do you know anyone who still works on Win 3.11 or 95 for music?
Maybe a few "Well, I can control my JV 2080 via MIDI and it's the best sound module I've ever heard of. What we have 2007?"-hardcore guys ... but who else?


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## Tomdini (Sep 21, 2007)

Mother of mercy... Alex, tell me where the Fountain of Youth is!!!!!!!!!!

You're looking rather young these days. And clean-shaven! And a less angry expression on the face! :D

Oh, and I agree. K2's devotion to a 32-bit world is so ridiculous that I could only have read it on the Internet.  But seriously, I am willing to concede that 64-bit isn't really ready for primetime yet, and thus NI is probably waiting until K4 to release a 64-bit engine for the sampler. Still, I feel that by the time K4 is released (three years? four?) that it will be too late. Someone else will make a move.

Although I don't know who that would be. Giga 4 is the only contender I can think of. It'd be pretty ironic if they made a comeback, and suddenly Kontakt became the forgotten exile of samplers. I don't see Play taking off in a major way, any more than the Vienna Instruments have taken off in a major way. The VI sampler is a big deal for VSL (which is a popular library controlling a significant amount of market share, I imagine), but for nobody else (except from a competitor's point of view). The EW response to VSL's accomplishment was Play. And everyone else seems to be following suit, and abandoning the open technology sampler altogether.

Eh... but what do I know, anyway... 

-Tom


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## synthetic (Sep 21, 2007)

"Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years... Mama said knock you out. Huh!"
=o


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## JohnnyMarks (Sep 23, 2007)

What I'd like to know: is GVI for Mac coming? Maybe this NY show coming up...


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## Dynamitec (Sep 24, 2007)

Btw. the old zone limit is gone (4096), the new zone limit is 8192.


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## kotori (Sep 24, 2007)

Dynamitec @ Mon Sep 24 said:


> Btw. the old zone limit is gone (4096), the new zone limit is 8192.


That's good news indeed. :D


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## Chris Hein (Sep 24, 2007)

Dynamitec @ Mon Sep 24 said:


> Btw. the old zone limit is gone (4096), the new zone limit is 8192.


I don't think so, I've heard that comes with K3.1, but I have not tried yet.

Chris Hein


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## Dynamitec (Sep 24, 2007)

Hi Chris,
that's not correct. The zonelimit is 8192. At least i was told so.

Best,
Benjamin


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## Chris Hein (Sep 24, 2007)

You are right, I tryed it, K3 does not crash anymore when using more than 4000 zones in one instrument.

Chris Hein


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## Fernando Warez (Sep 24, 2007)

I was just gonna ask about the zone limit. 8) 

I have to say i like the new editing ability too which was something i wished for. But i will probably stay with K2 for stability. Although seeing it's not a major update it may be stable sooner than we would expect., let's hope so.


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## Nickie Fønshauge (Sep 24, 2007)

Dynamitec @ 24th September 2007 said:


> Btw. the old zone limit is gone (4096), the new zone limit is 8192.


What a shame that is. K3 looks more and more like an essential upgrade. I am getting low on excuses not to upgrade.


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## Big Bob (Sep 24, 2007)

Nickie Fønshauge @ Mon Sep 24 said:


> Dynamitec @ 24th September 2007 said:
> 
> 
> > Btw. the old zone limit is gone (4096), the new zone limit is 8192.
> ...



I think getting the upgrade is the only way we are going to get detailed answers to the 1001 questions we have been asking, so I placed my order last night. The pivotal issue for me was whether or not we could retain K2.2.3 so we don't have to 'burn our bridges'. NI has responded to this in the affirmative and supposedly we can even run both K2 and K3 at the same time. I just hope there isn't some licensing glitch in all this :o . Now, I wonder if they will meet their announced release date and how many bugs we'll have to endure :wink:

God Bless,

Bob


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## Thonex (Sep 24, 2007)

Big Bob @ Mon Sep 24 said:


> The pivotal issue for me was whether or not we could retain K2.2.3 so we don't have to 'burn our bridges'. NI has responded to this in the affirmative and supposedly we can even run both K2 and K3 at the same time.



That's great news. That may have just sealed it for me.

Thanks for that info Bob.

T


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## lee (Sep 24, 2007)

I think I´ll read the first tests/bug reports before I decide. But 129.00 EUR is pretty cheap.

/Johnny


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## Fernando Warez (Sep 24, 2007)

> Sample Start Offset in DFD is now possible in Kontakt 3. There is a parameter called Sample Start Modulation Range in the wave editor, where you can specify the modulation range in DFD-Mode per zone.



I got that on their forum, those that mean we will be able to use SIPS offset feature in DFD mode? This Upgrade is starting to look good!


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## Dynamitec (Sep 26, 2007)

Hi everybody,

for all of you who might think that Kontakt 3 is only a cosmetic update, here some news features in detail:

Since we are in the Programming & Scripting forum let's start with KSP:

*_set_skin_offset(<offset>)*
Long awaited! You can now use differen skins for different pages! All skins are saved in a large image and you can switch them by setting the offset.
For example: _set_skin_offset(3 * 224) set the 4th skin as background (counting from zero) or _set_skin_offset(0 * 224) the first one. 

*set_control_help(<control-id>, <help-string>)*
There is a new help window on bottom of kontakt 3. You can define a text for each UI control element which is shown in the help window on mouse over.

*_pgs_create_key(<key-id>, <size>)
_pgs_key_exists(<key-id>)
_pgs_set_key_val(<key-id>, <index>, <value>)
_pgs_get_key_val(<key-id>, <index>)*

PGS ("Program Global Storage"):
Also long awaited! With this global storage you can easily communicate between different script slots. Example: _pgs_create_key(OPTIONS, 128) is a key with 128 elements which can be read from all script slots.

There also is an callback called "on pgs_change" or something like this, if one of the pgs keys is changed. 

*find_mod(<group-idx>, <mod-name>)
find_target(<group-idx>, <mod-idx>, <target-name>)*
Example: $modIdx := find_mod($groupIdx, "PITCH_MOD")

*set_table_steps_shown(<control>, <num-steps>)*
Very COOL. You can change the visible steps on a ui_table on runtime.

Ok, so far.
Oh, and there are even more changes and some new build-in variables (for example for the new effects). You'll see


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## Dynamitec (Sep 26, 2007)

Ok, next:

First of all: now we finally have automapping! A long requested feature.
And all developers among us would be happy to hear, that they also worked on the kontakt script editor slow down bug - it's not fully gone, but it's MUCH better now.

The new spline modulator curves are also very cool - and they are much easier to handle than the old tables (which are still available btw.).

As one of the guys here who often critisized NI for the stability issues with kontakt 2: Kontakt 3 feels more stable and after some time i also liked the new UI.

What else could i say? There are a lot of minor changes and bugfixes (zipping noise when using modulated insert effects is almost fully eliminated)...

Oh and of course: someone already mentioned it: sample start offset can be changed in DFD mode...this is a serious addon.

Best,
Benjamin


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## Dynamitec (Sep 26, 2007)

And here is the ksp_util for Nils Editor with all new commands if someone want to update to Kontakt 3 soon


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## Big Bob (Sep 26, 2007)

Hi Benj,

Thanks for the sneak preview. As soon as I get the time I want to chase down your Vir2 link and gaze at it. I'm very glad to hear about the stability and mostly everything you mentioned (especially the global data machinery).

Thanks again for the info. If you want, we wouldn't mind if you told us more (since you seem to be one of the priveleged few with advanced copies :lol: ).

Bob

PS And thanks for the KS update, you must have sneaked that one in while I was posting the above. BTW I'm in the queue waiting for K3.


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## Fernando Warez (Sep 26, 2007)

Dynamitec @ Wed Sep 26 said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> for all of you who might think that Kontakt 3 is only a cosmetic update, here some news features in detail:



I agree that it's more than a cosmetic update than it first appeared to be. Not sure why we didn't see that? Maybe because it looked very similar to K2 but with different colours. 

But he's a question that's been itching me: How is CPU usage? Is it similar to K2?

Thanks for the report, even though I'b lying if i said i understood everything you said not being a scripter... But I'm very please to hear it is stable! o=< 

Thanks again!


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## Dynamitec (Sep 26, 2007)

> But he's a question that's been itching me: How is CPU usage? Is it similar to K2?



I couldn't check this in depth. I did a small test with a project i'm working on (with massive KSP running in the background : 

I played one note:

Kontakt 3: 2-5%
Kontakt 2: 2-4%


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## kotori (Sep 26, 2007)

Hi Benjamin,
Thanks a lot for posting this. Truly useful information. :D 

Judging by the available screenshots and videos the looks have indeed been improved. I like the new looks. Cool with the background images. That's a nice surprise and very useful, especially for commercial libraries which have to compete with other virtual instruments. I'm also very happy to hear about the stability - that has been my greatest concern, the shaky start of Kontakt 2 coming to mind.

Are there any KSP syntax changes that you know of?

Cheers,
Nils


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## Dynamitec (Sep 26, 2007)

Hi Nils,
as far as i tested it all my scripts from Kontakt 2 work with Kontakt 3. So except for the new commands KSP should be the same.

And yes: the new background images are very cool!

Oh, and i almost forgot: the new multi performance view is great, too! Now you can have all scripts slots visible in performance view (switchable via tab) and due to the new build in interscript communication this leads to completely new possibilites for developers!

Best,
Benjamin


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## Big Bob (Sep 26, 2007)

Hey Benj,

What about Multiscripts? Did they bury it deeper, make it more accessible, leave it the same or what? It would be a shame if the Multiscripts we've now fallen in love with were no longer useable :( 

Here's hoping we can still use them.

BTW Did they expand the CCs to include Aftertouch? 

Bob


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## Fernando Warez (Sep 26, 2007)

> Dynamitec @ Wed Sep 26 said:
> 
> 
> > > But he's a question that's been itching me: How is CPU usage? Is it similar to K2?
> ...



Looking good! Especially for a first release.

This is all very exciting! ~o) 

Thanks again for the report!


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## Thonex (Sep 26, 2007)

Wow.... this is all such great news. I'm now glad I didn't update to 2.2.... I'm just going to go straight to K3.... when I have some down time.

Cheers Benjamin for all this information.

I wish I had more time to script... too busy scoring. heh.... where are my priorities??? :shock: :lol: 

T


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## Nickie Fønshauge (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks, Benjamin, for the update. I have to admit it, these new features make the upgrade look like a no brainer. I am positively surprised to hear about the multi skin feature, something I requested long ago but never thought I was going to see. In conjunction with the multi performance view you can create some cool instruments.

Any idea if there are any improvements on the script size limitations?


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## kotori (Sep 30, 2007)

Anybody who knows if empty *if *and *case* statements still silently cause an exit from callbacks in Kontakt 3?
If this bug is fixed in K3 maybe I need to make the warnings in my editor optional. It could also open up for various optimizations.


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## Waywyn (Sep 30, 2007)

Big Bob @ Sun Sep 30 said:


> Hi Nils,
> 
> That's one of the items on my list of things to check when my copy of K3 arrives. If no one reports before then, I'll drop a post with some of my findings.
> 
> Bob



Hey Bob and of course Nils, didn't you ever consider to get on NI beta list and take control over the script editor? I guess your eyes and brain involved in the project would make things even better


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## Big Bob (Sep 30, 2007)

> Hey Bob and of course Nils, didn't you ever consider to get on NI beta list and take control over the script editor? I guess your eyes and brain involved in the project would make things even better



Hi Alex,

That would be too much like work :shock: , and, I'm too busy having fun :lol: . Now Nils is a much better candidate than I am because He's still young and energetic (and his brain is much sharper than mine). Besides, who'd want an old goat like me beta testing things? :wink: 

So, I cast my vote for putting Nils on NI's beta team.

Bob


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## Nickie Fønshauge (Oct 1, 2007)

Try this script:

```
on note 
message("") 
wait(100000)
if($EVENT_NOTE = 60) 
end if 
select($EVENT_NOTE) 
case 1 
case 2 
case 72
end select 
message("Callback wasn't silently aborted") 
end on
```

What happens when you play MIDI notes 60 and 72?


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## Dynamitec (Oct 1, 2007)

Ok, the bug is still there!


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## Dynamitec (Oct 5, 2007)

There also is a bug fix update for Kontakt 2 (2.2.5) coming:

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... hp?t=50972


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