# Berlin Strings v Afflatus



## Soundhound (Nov 25, 2018)

A bit of an apples v oranges here I guess, but with the current holiday sales I’m thinking about getting one or the other. I’ve wanted berlin strings for a while for bread and butter strings, but i’m really knocked out by the sound of Afflatus. I have a lot of the spitfire strings libs, chamber, symphony etc and use them and css2 for the most part.

was going ask this in Muk’s berlin strings thread but didn’t want to hijack.

Thoughts?


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 25, 2018)

Soundhound said:


> A bit of an apples v oranges here I guess, but with the current holiday sales I’m thinking about getting one or the other. I’ve wanted berlin strings for a while for bread and butter strings, but i’m really knocked out by the sound of Afflatus. I have a lot of the spitfire strings libs, chamber, symphony etc and use them and css2 for the most part.
> 
> was going ask this in Muk’s berlin strings thread but didn’t want to hijack.
> 
> Thoughts?


My only thought is I’d like to know peoples thoughts on this too. Maybe @Cory Pelizzari or @The Darris might comment.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 25, 2018)

I don't have BS, but I do have Afflatus, along with several (hundred) other string libraries.

Afflatus is my all time favorite string library. It's insanely inspiring and imaginative. Sometimes I actually forget it is a string library! The playability and sound quality are off the charts. Can't wait for the rest of the series.

BS sounds great, but a tad thin to my ears, especially compared to Afflatus. It seems to have more articulations, but also seems to be heavier on resources.


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## galactic orange (Nov 25, 2018)

Mike Fox said:


> BS sounds great, but a tad thin to my ears, especially compared to Afflatus. It seems to have more articulations, but also seems to be heavier on resources.


That resources issue is a big deal to me. How does Afflatus compare with your other libraries as far as RAM usage?


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## Mike Fox (Nov 25, 2018)

galactic orange said:


> That resources issue is a big deal to me. How does Afflatus compare with your other libraries as far as RAM usage?


A couple of the larger patches can get up to nearly 2gb (most of them aren't that large) however, there are options to significantly decrease it. Most patches are average, and overall, I haven't noticed any cpu or ram issues, and i'd say it's no more resource hungry than CSS.


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## HelixK (Nov 25, 2018)

I'll be meeting a friend next week who has both libraries and I'm thinking about doing a comparison video. No promises because this is a business trip but I'll see if I can squeeze something out.

He told me Afflatus isn't a substitute for Berlin Strings and if he had to choose one over the other, he would pick Berlin. He also told me Afflatus is ideal for quickly mocking up parts where the strings are going to be replaced by live strings, where Berlin shines for detailed parts that are not going to be replaced.

I suppose that makes sense, Berlin Strings is hard to beat if you need to go for detail...

Legato...slurred, fingered, ostinato arpeggios, runs, portamento
Sustains...immediate, accented, soft, blurred bow stroke control (with and without vib)
Expressivo...short, long
Tremolo...accented, sforzando, pizzicato
Shorts...spiccato exposed, spiccatissimo, spicacato blurred, staccato bold, blurred
Portato...short, long, blurred
Repetitions...16th, triplets
Martele...FFF
Pizzicato...tremolo, percussive
Double-Triple strokes
Trills...HT/WT accented, sforzando
Hook...tremolos, trills
Playable Glissandi
Pre-Recorded Ocatve Runs

And that's Berlin CORE. I paid $840 in 2015. 40% off is a bargain.


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## chocobitz825 (Nov 25, 2018)

HelixK said:


> I'll be meeting a friend next week who has both libraries and I'm thinking about doing a comparison video. No promises because this is a business trip but I'll see if I can squeeze something out.
> 
> He told me Afflatus isn't a substitute for Berlin Strings and if he had to choose one over the other, he would pick Berlin. He also told me Afflatus is ideal for quickly mocking up parts where the strings are going to be replaced by live strings, where Berlin shines for detailed parts that are not going to be replaced.
> 
> ...


I would second that afflatus is the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. Working any other string library around afflatus is wonderful. Mockups with afflatus are great but you will feel the limitations for more defined work as it is right now in chapter 1. Berlin strings is a consistent and effective strings library. I still consider it the core of stuff I do on strings, and then layer in with stuff from other libraries.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> My only thought is I’d like to know peoples thoughts on this too. Maybe @Cory Pelizzari or @The Darris might comment.


Berlin Strings has weak scripting and legato. I wouldn't pick on this flaw if the library wasn't so expensive. There are some who will defend the library to their death but the facts remain, just like how Chamber Strings has many flaws with the scripting and legato. In this capacity, I don't care if anyone takes offense, because all I care about is hard data, not bias. Afflatus may not be entirely flawless but it's definitely better scripted and presented.


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## artomatic (Nov 25, 2018)

Love Afflatus. The tone! And ease of use.
Just wish it had portamento. Not as detailed as BS but listen to the demos and decide.


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## HelixK (Nov 25, 2018)

The selling point of Affltus for me other than the beautiful tone, is how easily one can achieve great results with minimal CC1 work out of the box. Watch Cory's video, he nails it.

Can I do the same with Berlin Strings? No. I need to put some effort for lines that breathe music. After I learned all BS quirks, I got great results out of it. I can see the appeal of Afflatus for someone who does not care about midi programming. Is it worth $950? Not for me to decide...


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## chocobitz825 (Nov 25, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> Berlin Strings has weak scripting and legato. I wouldn't pick on this flaw if the library wasn't so expensive. There are some who will defend the library to their death but the facts remain, just like how Chamber Strings has many flaws with the scripting and legato. In this capacity, I don't care if anyone takes offense, because all I care about is hard data, not bias. Afflatus may not be entirely flawless but it's definitely better scripted and presented.



No argument there. I have a hard time finding any strings library that provide so many various articulations and options that manage to avoid the scripting and sample hell. As for pricing, I think that’s a whole different discussion since it’s hard to say if we’re getting what we paid for as libraries prices are increasing each year


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

chocobitz825 said:


> No argument there. I have a hard time finding any strings library that provide so many various articulations and options that manage to avoid the scripting and sample hell. As for pricing, I think that’s a whole different discussion since it’s hard to say if we’re getting what we paid for as libraries prices are increasing each year


That's why I'm always wary with Orchestral Tools. Afflatus's pricing was based on the fact that it's a boutique library that presents the strings in a way no other has before, whereas Orchestral Tools tend to price any library they make high. That's why the most valuable of their libraries will always be the Ark series.


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## HelixK (Nov 25, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> Berlin Strings has weak scripting and legato. I wouldn't pick on this flaw if the library wasn't so expensive. There are some who will defend the library to their death but the facts remain, just like how Chamber Strings has many flaws with the scripting and legato. In this capacity, I don't care if anyone takes offense, because all I care about is hard data, not bias. Afflatus may not be entirely flawless but it's definitely better scripted and presented.



 why should anyone be offended about sample libraries? That would be sort of pathetic...

Afflatus has many shortcomings but you only point out the flaws of other developers like Orchestral Tools and Spitfire Audio. Why?

I understand you got the library for free and you even mentioned in your video that you wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise. I wonder how that changes the way you perceive Afflatus, even on an subconscious level.


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 25, 2018)

chocobitz825 said:


> I would second that afflatus is the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. Working any other string library around afflatus is wonderful. Mockups with afflatus are great but you will feel the limitations for more defined work as it is right now in chapter 1. Berlin strings is a consistent and effective strings library. I still consider it the core of stuff I do on strings, and then layer in with stuff from other libraries.


This is the nub of the thing for me. I was pretty much expecting this be the answer though so it's reinforcing my thinking (if I understand you correctly). I have a load of bread and butter articulations in strings (CSS, SCS, CSSS, Albion One and Tundra, LCO, Various other ensemble and solo instruments) just not Berlin (so I guess there's that). I see this as more like an extension to that adding life and flair where it may have been difficult to find in those base libraries. I'd put Time Macro, British Drama and things like the SF Evos in that category too. 

Given how pleased I am with those last few libraries I mentioned, am I right to think about Afflatus in a similar (but still slightly different) way? That question meant to be open to everyone to discuss.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

HelixK said:


> why should anyone be offended about sample libraries? That would be sort of pathetic...
> 
> Afflatus has many shortcomings but you only point out the flaws of other developers like Orchestral Tools and Spitfire Audio. Why?
> 
> I understand you got the library for free and you even mentioned in your video that you wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise. I wonder how that changes the way you perceive Afflatus, even on an subconscious level.


Read the comment again. I don't point out the flaws of other "developers", I point out that Chamber Strings and Berlin Strings have weak scripting especially in the legato area, whereas Afflatus has smoother scripting and presentation, but is still not "flawless" obviously. Facts, my friend, facts.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 25, 2018)

HelixK said:


> why should anyone be offended about sample libraries? That would be sort of pathetic...



I take it you haven't been here very long.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> This is the nub of the thing for me. I was pretty much expecting this be the answer though so it's reinforcing my thinking (if I understand you correctly). I have a load of bread and butter articulations in strings (CSS, SCS, CSSS, Albion One and Tundra, LCO, Various other ensemble and solo instruments) just not Berlin (so I guess there's that). I see this as more like an extension to that adding life and flair where it may have been difficult to find in those base libraries. I'd put Time Macro, British Drama and things like the SF Evos in that category too.
> 
> Given how pleased I am with those last few libraries I mentioned, am I right to think about Afflatus in a similar (but still slightly different) way? That question meant to be open to everyone to discuss.


It's something you can't quite grasp unless you play the library for yourself. There are plenty of articulations in there for basic scoring, and plenty for expressive scoring. It covers common and uncommon ground, but it just doesn't cover the more technical aspects one would want if you're gung-ho about getting your piece exactly the way it was notated. For notation, you'd go with things like Berlin Strings, Chamber Strings or Dimension Strings.


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## The Darris (Nov 25, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> My only thought is I’d like to know peoples thoughts on this too. Maybe @Cory Pelizzari or @The Darris might comment.


I don't own Berlin Strings so I can't really compare the two. But, judging from the content list, Berlin Strings has the core articulations plus a few extras but you really need the expansions to compete against the content of Spitfire Chamber Strings. Afflatus does have some the core articulations but in a chamber string sized ensemble that is a few players shy of Berlin's compliment. That said, Afflatus offers quite a bit more in terms of stylized articulations you can't get from any single strings library. 

Now, I can't give my opinions on Berlins Strings in terms of use and where thrives and fails. I can say that a few of my friends who own it say they rarely use it and found that they prefer Chamber Strings from Spitfire and Cinematic Studio Strings as their "workhorses." Berlin Strings appears to have some cool articulations that aren't available, like the playable Glissandi patch. I would love that patch but totally won't pay the discounted price only to use that. For me, the money making Strings that I use day in and out, are Cinematic Studio Strings and Cinematic Strings 2. I supplement more stylized patches from SF's Chamber Strings such as the measured trems, playable runs legato, and a few others. Aside from those being the workhorses. I will reach for ensemble patches from the Albions (most 1 legacy and 2 Loegria). Afflatus works very nicely with all of those libraries as you can get a nice dry sound and a beautifully wet sound with their built in IR. So, the short of it is, if I were in your buying situation, I'd need to ask myself, "What libraries do I already own." If you already own Cinematic Strings 2 or Cinematic Studio Strings then I would go for Afflatus. If not, and you are truly dead set on Berlin Strings, go for it. The 40% discount is worth it for that content. I just don't have the drive space or need for Berlin Strings. 

I hope that's useful.

Best,

Chris


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## Mike Fox (Nov 25, 2018)

HelixK said:


> I understand you got the library for free and you even mentioned in your video that you wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise. I wonder how that changes the way you perceive Afflatus, even on an subconscious level.



It's funny. I thought the same thing myself, until i played library, and then realized everything Cory said in his walkthrough video was dead on.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

The Darris said:


> I don't own Berlin Strings so I can't really compare the two. But, judging from the content list, Berlin Strings has the core articulations plus a few extras but you really need the expansions to compete against the content of Spitfire Chamber Strings. Afflatus does have some the core articulations but in a chamber string sized ensemble that is a few players shy of Berlin's compliment. That said, Afflatus offers quite a bit more in terms of stylized articulations you can't get from any single strings library.
> 
> Now, I can't give my opinions on Berlins Strings in terms of use and where thrives and fails. I can say that a few of my friends who own it say they rarely use it and found that they prefer Chamber Strings from Spitfire and Cinematic Studio Strings as their "workhorses." Berlin Strings appears to have some cool articulations that aren't available, like the playable Glissandi patch. I would love that patch but totally won't pay the discounted price only to use that. For me, the money making Strings that I use day in and out, are Cinematic Studio Strings and Cinematic Strings 2. I supplement more stylized patches from SF's Chamber Strings such as the measured trems, playable runs legato, and a few others. Aside from those being the workhorses. I will reach for ensemble patches from the Albions (most 1 legacy and 2 Loegria). Afflatus works very nicely with all of those libraries as you can get a nice dry sound and a beautifully wet sound with their built in IR. So, the short of it is, if I were in your buying situation, I'd need to ask myself, "What libraries do I already own." If you already own Cinematic Strings 2 or Cinematic Studio Strings then I would go for Afflatus. If not, and you are truly dead set on Berlin Strings, go for it. The 40% discount is worth it for that content. I just don't have the drive space or need for Berlin Strings.
> 
> ...


That's one of the reasons I appreciate Afflatus. It saves on disk space.


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## NoamL (Nov 25, 2018)

Written without harshness  Can we be real that the only reason one would consider these 2 libraries as competitors is that they're both very temporarily on sale and there's an urgency that "the deal will slip away" by next week? In every other sense, these products are miles apart in what they aim to do. Take a step back, decide what you really are lacking in your template, and then get the matching product, regardless of if it's the best available BlackFriday deal.

I think you've got lots of great strings already, the only thing you might be needing (if "css2" meant CS2) is a very dry and close recorded library. Afflatus seems better in that regard. But buying that library - regardless of how on sale/intro priced it is - is buying a lot of stuff you may not need, like all the ensemble patches mixed with woodwinds or ethnic instruments.


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## galactic orange (Nov 25, 2018)

The Darris said:


> Afflatus works very nicely with all of those libraries as you can get a nice dry sound and a beautifully wet sound with their built in IR. So, the short of it is, if I were in your buying situation, I'd need to ask myself, "What libraries do I already own." If you already own Cinematic Strings 2 or Cinematic Studio Strings then I would go for Afflatus.





Mike Fox said:


> It's funny. I thought the same thing myself, until i played library, and then realized everything Cory said in his walkthrough video was dead on.





Cory Pelizzari said:


> That's one of the reasons I appreciate Afflatus. It saves on disk space.


...they pull me back in.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

NoamL said:


> Written without harshness  Can we be real that the only reason one would consider these 2 libraries as competitors is that they're both very temporarily on sale and there's an urgency that "the deal will slip away" by next week? In every other sense, these products are miles apart in what they aim to do. Take a step back, decide what you really are lacking in your template, and then get the matching product, regardless of if it's the best available BlackFriday deal.
> 
> I think you've got lots of great strings already, the only thing you might be needing (if "css2" meant CS2) is a very dry and close recorded library. Afflatus seems better in that regard. But buying that library - regardless of how on sale/intro priced it is - is buying a lot of stuff you may not need, like all the ensemble patches mixed with woodwinds or ethnic instruments.


In total agreeance. They're two different tools for two different composers with two different jobs in two different scenes.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 25, 2018)

NoamL said:


> Written without harshness  Can we be real that the only reason one would consider these 2 libraries as competitors is that they're both very temporarily on sale and there's an urgency that "the deal will slip away" by next week? In every other sense, these products are miles apart in what they aim to do. Take a step back, decide what you really are lacking in your template, and then get the matching product, regardless of if it's the best available BlackFriday deal.


I was just thinking the same thing. At the end of the day, BS and Aff almost can't even be compared, because they are so different. Different in sound, different in content, and different in purpose. 

When it comes to buying any library, I think one should decide which sound they prefer the most. That's the most important attribute to me.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

Mike Fox said:


> I was just thinking the same thing. At the end of the day, BS and Aff almost can't even be compared, because they are so different. Different in sound, different in content, and different in purpose.
> 
> When it comes to buying any library, I think one should decide which sound they prefer the most. That's the most important attribute to me.


My #1 question/rule when buying a library - "What are you going to use it for?" - and even then I buy crap I never needed during sales.


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## HelixK (Nov 25, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> Read the comment again. I don't point out the flaws of other "developers", I point out that Chamber Strings and Berlin Strings have weak scripting especially in the legato area, whereas Afflatus has smoother scripting and presentation, but is still not "flawless" obviously. Facts, my friend, facts.



Obviously I'm not suggesting you are bashing developers. I am sorry, I could have phrased that a lot better.

I do not own Chamber Strings but I have heard so many wonderful things coming out of it. Listen to "The Magician" on Spitfire's website and tell me if that suggests any issues in the legato area. If anything, it's one of the smoother and responsive legatos I've heard in samples.

I know that's subjective to opinion but I would not call Berlin Strings scripting "weak". Capsule is awesome! Sure there are inconsistencies but after you learn the library like an instrument, it's a breeze to work. I use it every day and believe me when I tell you that I would trash it in a heartbeat if I felt that any of its quirks are delaying my work.

Yes, BS can be very demanding on the system, so beware. Berlin series are "orchestral tools" aimed at the pro market, now at an unprecedented affordable price. I wouldn't even think about it at 40% off...


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## HelixK (Nov 25, 2018)

Mike Fox said:


> I take it you haven't been here very long.



I know some might have strong opinions, but to be offended? Really? 



Mike Fox said:


> It's funny. I thought the same thing myself, until i played library, and then realized everything Cory said in his walkthrough video was dead on.



That's very reasonable and I would never discard the "you need to play it to understand it" factor. I guess I will find out next week.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

HelixK said:


> Obviously I'm not suggesting you are bashing developers. I am sorry, I could have phrased that a lot better.
> 
> I do not own Chamber Strings but I have heard so many wonderful things coming out of it. Listen to "The Magician" on Spitfire's website and tell me if that suggests any issues in the legato area. If anything, it's one of the smoother and responsive legatos I've heard in samples.
> 
> ...


Same thing goes for Chamber Strings - they can sound beautiful, and I've made many tracks with them, but those who own and use Chamber Strings avoid the bumpy patches or notes and focus on the stronger elements.

Afflatus's scripting is so effective because of its divisi switching and near-perfect polyphonic legato, which is priceless for many composers working on deadlines.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

HelixK said:


> I know some might have strong opinions, but to be offended? Really?


Have a look at my thread for Hollywood Choirs and you'll see just how offended people can get... even people who develop the libraries...


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 25, 2018)

The Darris said:


> I don't own Berlin Strings so I can't really compare the two. But, judging from the content list, Berlin Strings has the core articulations plus a few extras but you really need the expansions to compete against the content of Spitfire Chamber Strings. Afflatus does have some the core articulations but in a chamber string sized ensemble that is a few players shy of Berlin's compliment. That said, Afflatus offers quite a bit more in terms of stylized articulations you can't get from any single strings library.
> 
> Now, I can't give my opinions on Berlins Strings in terms of use and where thrives and fails. I can say that a few of my friends who own it say they rarely use it and found that they prefer Chamber Strings from Spitfire and Cinematic Studio Strings as their "workhorses." Berlin Strings appears to have some cool articulations that aren't available, like the playable Glissandi patch. I would love that patch but totally won't pay the discounted price only to use that. For me, the money making Strings that I use day in and out, are Cinematic Studio Strings and Cinematic Strings 2. I supplement more stylized patches from SF's Chamber Strings such as the measured trems, playable runs legato, and a few others. Aside from those being the workhorses. I will reach for ensemble patches from the Albions (most 1 legacy and 2 Loegria). Afflatus works very nicely with all of those libraries as you can get a nice dry sound and a beautifully wet sound with their built in IR. So, the short of it is, if I were in your buying situation, I'd need to ask myself, "What libraries do I already own." If you already own Cinematic Strings 2 or Cinematic Studio Strings then I would go for Afflatus. If not, and you are truly dead set on Berlin Strings, go for it. The 40% discount is worth it for that content. I just don't have the drive space or need for Berlin Strings.
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris. That is in line with my thinking on the matter. As above, I have bread and butter covered and want some cream and Maraschinos.


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 25, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> It's something you can't quite grasp unless you play the library for yourself. There are plenty of articulations in there for basic scoring, and plenty for expressive scoring. It covers common and uncommon ground, but it just doesn't cover the more technical aspects one would want if you're gung-ho about getting your piece exactly the way it was notated. For notation, you'd go with things like Berlin Strings, Chamber Strings or Dimension Strings.


Would it be fair to say with Afflatus you have to play to the samples? Or am I oversimplifying it? I realise this applies to all cases of sampled instruments but some more than others. It was one of the first things I realised with Brit Drama Kit and I was absolutely fine with that but if you want to bend something to your will maybe it’s not the best option?


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 25, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> In total agreeance. They're two different tools for two different composers with two different jobs in two different scenes.


But...I don’t even have a scene!!??
(cue Hoodoo Gurus).




Mike Fox said:


> I was just thinking the same thing. At the end of the day, BS and Aff almost can't even be compared, because they are so different. Different in sound, different in content, and different in purpose.
> 
> When it comes to buying any library, I think one should decide which sound they prefer the most. That's the most important attribute to me.


And this was my understanding too but good to have a few people confirm that I am on the right track. I know what I should do if I go ahead now. Thanks to OP for starting the thread I hope you got as much out of it as I did.


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## cadenzajon (Nov 25, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Would it be fair to say with Afflatus you have to play to the samples?



This is my question/concern too. It sounds beautiful, but I'm not sure that it's something I would be able to use for mocking up, say, Tchaikovsky... ?


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Would it be fair to say with Afflatus you have to play to the samples? Or am I oversimplifying it? I realise this applies to all cases of sampled instruments but some more than others. It was one of the first things I realised with Brit Drama Kit and I was absolutely fine with that but if you want to bend something to your will maybe it’s not the best option?


I'd say yeah, to a degree. They're certainly more playable than your average play-to library though. There's a bit more elasticity there, especially because the legato is a bit more responsive to speed.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

cadenzajon said:


> This is my question/concern too. It sounds beautiful, but I'm not sure that it's something I would be able to use for mocking up, say, Tchaikovsky... ?


Not for classical mocking. This library is definitely for creating, not programming.


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 25, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> I'd say yeah, to a degree. They're certainly more playable than your average play-to library though. There's a bit more elasticity there, especially because the legato is a bit more responsive to speed.


Thanks Cory.



Cory Pelizzari said:


> Not for classical mocking. This library is definitely for creating, not programming.


Yep. I think I get it now.


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## sostenuto (Nov 25, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> ******** Afflatus's scripting is so effective because of its divisi switching and near-perfect polyphonic legato, which is priceless for many _composers working on deadlines_.



Learning tons thru these /your posts, yet so much unknown until Afflatus is purchased.
I use The Orchestra, BO_Inspire 1&2, TM Macro, Vienna Smart Orchestra, Albions.

How do you '_categorize / describe_' Afflatus in company with these Libs … _viewed as Composer working on deadlines ? _


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Learning tons thru these /your posts, yet so much unknown until Afflatus is purchased.
> I use The Orchestra, BO_Inspire 1&2, TM Macro, Vienna Smart Orchestra, Albions.
> 
> How do you '_categorize / describe_' Afflatus in company with these Libs … _viewed as Composer working on deadlines ? _( Completely apart from Berlin Strings comparisons )


All I can say in that regard is that stylistically it plays well with these tools - more so with Spitfire and Orchestral Tools due to being recorded in halls. In that capacity, pulling up the close mics in Afflatus can really boost the spot clarity for the strings while the other libraries handle hall wetness for brass and percussion for example.

Categorically - I honestly think Afflatus belongs to Afflatus - in that once the brass and woodwinds are released, there will be complete synergy for those sections. The reason I say that is because Orchestral Tools tends to have a stark tone, while Spitfire tends to have a dark tone, whereas Afflatus has what I'd describe as a "film" sound - in other words a warm, vintage throwback to 70's scores.

Also, personally I'd use Afflatus as the primary string tool because of how fast the ideas can be made and completed from the start line, with the other palettes being used to work the rest of the piece around it for flavour and fullness.


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## sostenuto (Nov 25, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> All I can say in that regard is that stylistically it plays well with these tools - more so with Spitfire and Orchestral Tools due to being recorded in halls. In that capacity, pulling up the close mics in Afflatus can really boost the spot clarity for the strings while the other libraries handle hall wetness for brass and percussion for example.
> 
> Categorically - I honestly think Afflatus belongs to Afflatus - in that once the brass and woodwinds are released, there will be complete synergy for those sections. The reason I say that is because Orchestral Tools tends to have a stark tone, while Spitfire tends to have a dark tone, whereas Afflatus has what I'd describe as a "film" sound - in other words a warm, vintage throwback to 70's scores.
> 
> Also, personally I'd use Afflatus as the primary string tool because of how fast the ideas can be made and completed from the start line, with the other palettes being used to work the rest of the piece around it for flavour and fullness.




Many thanks, Cory.
This addresses my interests really well. 
I appreciate your detail, especially with the fairly off-topic inquiry. 

Regards


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## madfloyd (Nov 25, 2018)

When did Afflatus come out? An hour ago I took advantage of the BF sale and bought Berlin Strings. I also bought Berlin Brass so I could use the $100 voucher I had.

Reading this and listening to a bit of the Afflatus videos I'm wondering if I should have bought Afflatus. Gawd it's hard keeping track of all the offerings on the market!


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

madfloyd said:


> When did Afflatus come out? An hour ago I took advantage of the BF sale and bought Berlin Strings. I also bought Berlin Brass so I could use the $100 voucher I had.
> 
> Reading this and listening to a bit of the Afflatus videos I'm wondering if I should have bought Afflatus. Gawd it's hard keeping track of all the offerings on the market!


Collateral damage from Black Friday sales grenades.


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## reids (Nov 25, 2018)

Great discussions here. Lots of interesting points and things needing to be clarified. So it seems that Afflatus is on a different trajectory than the other string libraries in terms of its sounds and direction.

Maybe this focus on symphonic strings should be more on Berlin Strings Vs Spitfire Symphonic Strings since I think these two have more in common with each other? Which library would one recommend between Berlin Strings and Spitfire Symphonic Strings? And does OT Berlin series cover chamber strings too?


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## cadenzajon (Nov 25, 2018)

reids said:


> Maybe this focus on symphonic strings should be more on Berlin Strings Vs Spitfire Symphonic Strings since I think these two have more in common with each other? Which library would one recommend between Berlin Strings and Spitfire Symphonic Strings? And does OT Berlin series cover chamber strings too?



Berlin Strings is a smaller orchestra than Spitfire's Symphonic Strings, and a larger orchestra than their Chamber Strings. It only comes in the one variety and doesn't offer divisi or smaller chamber sections.

The Berlin sections have a more up-front classical character than Spitfire's offerings, obviously also recorded in different environments. None of them (to my tastes) offer killer legatos, that territory belongs to the Cinematic Studio Strings. But both Berlin and Spitfire offer fairly comprehensive sets of articulations. I would give Berlin the controllability edge for their Capsule player, which beats the tar (in my very subjective opinion) out of Spitfire's players. But, Spitfire can also function with less of a RAM footprint.


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## reids (Nov 25, 2018)

cadenzajon said:


> Berlin Strings is a smaller orchestra than Spitfire's Symphonic Strings, and a larger orchestra than their Chamber Strings. It only comes in the one variety and doesn't offer divisi or smaller chamber sections.
> 
> The Berlin sections have a more up-front classical character than Spitfire's offerings, obviously also recorded in different environments. None of them (to my tastes) offer killer legatos, that territory belongs to the Cinematic Studio Strings. But both Berlin and Spitfire offer fairly comprehensive sets of articulations. I would give Berlin the controllability edge for their Capsule player, which beats the tar (in my very subjective opinion) out of Spitfire's players. But, Spitfire can also function with less of a RAM footprint.



Thanks for elaborating. Lol, sighs. If only it would be easy to pick out one library over the other. They each have unique things offered or done differently. In these versus and comparisons threads, there is never really a clear winner or one that is overwhelmingly praised. It always comes back to the pros and cons of each library, how they can complement each other.....and most likely to get them all if you are looking to get the variety of versatile sounds for your virtual orchestra.


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## galactic orange (Nov 25, 2018)

madfloyd said:


> When did Afflatus come out? An hour ago I took advantage of the BF sale and bought Berlin Strings. I also bought Berlin Brass so I could use the $100 voucher I had.



I don't mean to take this thread off-topic, but I'm thinking about getting Berlin Brass during the BF sale. The main thing holding me back is Afflatus.


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## cadenzajon (Nov 25, 2018)

galactic orange said:


> I don't mean to take this thread off-topic, but I'm thinking about getting Berlin Brass during the BF sale. The main thing holding me back is Afflatus.


Get both, they work great layered!!


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

reids said:


> Thanks for elaborating. Lol, sighs. If only it would be easy to pick out one library over the other. They each have unique things offered or done differently. In these versus and comparisons threads, there is never really a clear winner or one that is overwhelmingly praised. It always comes back to the pros and cons of each library, how they can complement each other.....and most likely to get them all if you are looking to get the variety of versatile sounds for your virtual orchestra.


One over the other? Do what I do - sell everything you own except your computer, buy everything, and get 3 new 8TB HDDs for your computer.


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## Saxer (Nov 25, 2018)

The difference for me looks like this:
Afflatus: You load a patch... oh, sounds nice! You play, you record it, done. 
Berlin: Having a plan, I want to play this! Looking for the needed patches, starting to work until it sounds like you planned it. Takes time to fullfill your plans but you will get there rather close.

Mocking up a score: Berlin. 
Let you take somewhere by the sound: Afflatus.


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## Soundhound (Nov 25, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> And this was my understanding too but good to have a few people confirm that I am on the right track. I know what I should do if I go ahead now. Thanks to OP for starting the thread I hope you got as much out of it as I did.



I have indeed, and you've been really great guiding it toward the info I need. I think I'm in the market for cream and maraschinos as well. A little caramel would not be unwelcome. 




NoamL said:


> Written without harshness  Can we be real that the only reason one would consider these 2 libraries as competitors is that they're both very temporarily on sale and there's an urgency that "the deal will slip away" by next week? In every other sense, these products are miles apart in what they aim to do. Take a step back, decide what you really are lacking in your template, and then get the matching product, regardless of if it's the best available BlackFriday deal.
> 
> I think you've got lots of great strings already, the only thing you might be needing (if "css2" meant CS2) is a very dry and close recorded library. Afflatus seems better in that regard. But buying that library - regardless of how on sale/intro priced it is - is buying a lot of stuff you may not need, like all the ensemble patches mixed with woodwinds or ethnic instruments.



Very wise and much appreciated! I'm afraid this is being spurred by the sales prices, and as such focusing on what my arsenal needs is all important. I don't do mockups, but have had any number of jobs that needed straight ahead classical string elements in them. I've always been able to get a pleasing result with CS, CS2 (that is what I meant, thanks!) the spitfire chamber, symphonic and some others. And for the most part, the work I've been getting really doesn't need that, it's been more for my interest in learning more about proper orchestration when I have the time, which is less than I'd like... I just always meant to get the Berlin Strings when the opportunity arose since so many people seem to look to it as their bread and butter. 

But the Afflatus sound is curling my toes like McCartney's bass playing, and when I'm writing there's nothing quite like having an inspiring sound to get to ideas more quickly. 

I imagine that Afflatus will be useful in fewer projects than Berlin, but for my purposes my guess is I'd get more out of it. 

Thanks all for the informative discussion. Now to summon the courage to spend that much $ on yet another string library. A good single malt is often useful at times like these...


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## Soundhound (Nov 25, 2018)

You were typing that as I was typing mine. If I wasn't such a motor mouth I'd have beaten you to the punch. 




Saxer said:


> The difference for me looks like this:
> Afflatus: You load a patch... oh, sounds nice! You play, you record it, done.
> Berlin: Having a plan, I want to play this! Looking for the needed patches, starting to work until it sounds like you planned it. Takes time to fullfill your plans but you will get there rather close.
> 
> ...


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## mobileavatar (Nov 25, 2018)

This is slightly OT but very much relevant.

I was attracted to the tone of both Afflatus and Arva (Strezov's Children's Choir), and I still am. As Arva is a smaller investment, I went ahead with the purchase this past weekend to get a sense of the quality of Strezov's products.

The tone of Arva is gorgeous (probably the best in the market), but I cannot say the same regarding its "technical" aspect:

1. Many of the "mmm/aah/ooh" legatos are poorly looped, to the point that they almost seem to be intentional (for whatever the reason are).
2. The positioning of the Sopranos and Altos are not asymmetrically panned, but heavily panned to left.
3. The so-called "bonus" soloists patches are really sub-par in terms of quality. There are no mic positions, and with fewer syllable options than the rest of the library.

The fact that Arva has been updated fairly recently, i.e. Mar 2018, is also alarming (at least for me), with so many issues "hanging" so to speak.

Now I wonder whether the quality of Arva might reflect the same standard of excellence of Afflatus. I want to take the plunge too, but after the purchase of Arva, I've become even less certain.

Maybe someone could chime in to help me/us make better/fairer judgement, as I am worried that Afflatus might suffer from similar issues, not only because they are produced by the same developer, but also share a similar engine.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 25, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> This is slightly OT but very much relevant.
> 
> I was attracted to the tone of both Afflatus and Arva (Strezov's Children's Choir), and I still am. As Arva is a smaller investment, I went ahead with the purchase this past weekend to get a sense of the quality of Strezov's products.
> 
> ...


They've done a much better job with this library. Choir libraries in general are tricky things to nail, along with woodwinds and brass. I'd consider Afflatus a new era in Strezov Sampling.


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## Strezov (Nov 25, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> This is slightly OT but very much relevant.
> 
> I was attracted to the tone of both Afflatus and Arva (Strezov's Children's Choir), and I still am. As Arva is a smaller investment, I went ahead with the purchase this past weekend to get a sense of the quality of Strezov's products.
> 
> ...


Sorry for derailing the topic, but --- hi @mobileavatar , sorry to see that you're having issues with Árva! Please if you could do take a moment and send us an email to our support form with the problems and we'll work on those right after the Afflatus update. TBH we haven't received any suggestions for Arva so far (for instance a lot of people asked us for Wotan legatos) so any of these will be absolutely welcome. We have a spreadsheet printed out in the office with suggestions for the libraries and we're always trying to make them work (_and some of these were great like the loop-sequence and batch edit features of Syllabuilder 3.5 - the 2018 software feature update_). Recording Arva was the hardest thing we did in our company history - I think that sampling children is probably the worst thing one can do to oneself. Sorry for the offtopic!

P.S.
On the topic - I love Berlin Strings and use it, but to be honest the Arks take a much bigger part of my template (and I love the strings there!). I am not as talented as you lot here and I often need a _timbral_ push to get ideas flowing.


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## mobileavatar (Nov 25, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> They've done a much better job with this library. Choir libraries in general are tricky things to nail, along with woodwinds and brass. I'd consider Afflatus a new era in Strezov Sampling.



Thanks a lot for your input, Cory.


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## mobileavatar (Nov 25, 2018)

Strezov said:


> On the topic - I love Berlin Strings and use it, but to be honest the Arks take a much bigger part of my template (and I love the strings there!). I am not as talented as you lot here and I often need a _timbral_ push to get ideas flowing.



Thanks, George!!! I understand the challenges. I will definitely write to your team and hopefully would be able to find some workarounds.

Edit: And apologies. I should have written to your team first to sort out the issues first. Somehow I felt the urgency due to the Aflflatus offer expiration.


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## chocobitz825 (Nov 25, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> One over the other? Do what I do - sell everything you own except your computer, buy everything, and get 3 new 8TB HDDs for your computer.


That’s the way of life!


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## Vik (Nov 26, 2018)

NoamL said:


> Can we be real that the only reason one would consider these 2 libraries as competitors is that they're both very temporarily on sale and there's an urgency that "the deal will slip away" by next week?


You make sense as usual. Another reason one may see them as competitors is that they both sound good and that most people who want to invest in a new library couldn't afford one major investment like that in one go.
I usually don't buy stuff at BF sales and feel that I pretty much have what I need when it comes to string libraries, but Afflatus still caught my interest - since that library IMO belongs to a small group of libraries that stick out in terms of having an inspiring and believable tone which sticks out among the more than maybe 120 string libraries I'm aware of.
And - while I may not need presets with sax and strings layered, or piano and strings: with Afflatus I'd ignore that if I were in the market to buy a string library right now, because there are presets/samples I don't need in pretty much all the lins I have.


Cory Pelizzari said:


> Chamber Strings and Berlin Strings have weak scripting especially in the legato area


Nevertheless, those two libraries are often mentioned by people who list legatos they are happy with. The legatos I had heard in Berlin Strings and SCS demos were a main reason I was interested in them, so - if Afflatus has better legatos than that, kudos to Strezov!


reids said:


> Maybe this focus on symphonic strings should be more on Berlin Strings Vs Spitfire Symphonic Strings since I think these two have more in common with each other? Which library would one recommend between Berlin Strings and Spitfire Symphonic Strings?


Between Berlin Strings and SSS, I'd clearly go for Berlin Strings. And to answer your question, I'd probably recommend Cinematic Studio Strings 'between' these two, since I have these libraries. Maybe Afflatus could be seen as being as somehow between these two as well - although from what I've heard so far, Afflatus looks more like a potential LASS3 competitor to me, with it's tone, auto-divisi and polyphonic legato. Maybe it's not as bread and butter as some of the major libraries out there (no portamento, and I don't know if it has a separate vibrato control.... anyone?), but sometimes tone and inspiration is what matters the most. And good legatos.


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## cola2410 (Nov 26, 2018)

Strezov said:


> P.S.
> On the topic - I love Berlin Strings and use it, but to be honest the Arks take a much bigger part of my template (and I love the strings there!). I am not as talented as you lot here and I often need a _timbral_ push to get ideas flowing.



Hi George, I would second that completely - Arks are more valuable as inspiring tools and Afflatus goes well beyond that though I'm judging by the demos only! In my experience I had one request to do a medieval, game-of-throne-ish cue. With Berlin it would require three main libs at least (strings, brass and perc) apart from fx although only a couple of patches from each will be used. So no wonder I got Ark1 and a bit of extra perc (I had no Ark3 at that time) and job's done. I also own both Inspires and I would say they somehow concentrate the best-of-the-best (or most commonly used) patches in them. Don't forget that OT also extend Arks by multis following ProjectSam approach. Honestly speaking, I don't hear that much traditional orchestral work in scoring for movies apart from what Desplat and Marianelli do and I fully support George's approach to making a string library. All we are supposed to do is illustrate what's going on there on the silver screen and the list of emotions and expressions is not large.

Legatos, this is what people do take care about when talking strings. I'm not sure why very few here previously expressed what is most important for strings - writing lines and melodies. I remember Junkie XL said in one of his videos but not here. Strings is all about lines, not chords, and simple reason for that is people remember them (lines), they memorize them and this is what typically differentiates your score. I'm not sure how other people approach that but I do care about the melody even in a small part of the score. Pizz, spicc, marc, thrills - all these are supplementary and make absolutely no sense if there is no legato. Again, I support George in making this a priority whatever it takes.

Vibrato - and here is no consensus unfortunately. I was struggling with the common perception that vibrato should be in strings no matter what calling them soaring and generally people accept even molto vibrato very well. But I like to have different styles in my palette so I need different vibrato styles. SF folks tried to encapsulate them in x-fade and it sounds meh. On the other hand, I'm perfectly fine having different vibrato style patches like George did starting from almost no vibrato. And my suggestion for making controllable vibrato is explore the way Embertone tried to do that using LFOs but model LFO shape after real string player and mix several types with randomization and speeds along with some distortion made by harder bowing to simulate different people playing differently.

And combinations - I have expressed the opinion here several times about making the most commonly used combinations in scoring, already mixed and positioned. With polylegato it would even become possible for different sections of the orchestra. Start from Spectrotone as more traditional, through Hermann beauties and further to Johannsonn, Part and others.

George, please continue making other parts of Afflatus the way you started. Thank you.


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## mobileavatar (Nov 27, 2018)

I got a reply from Strezov Sampling two days ago:
"we would be able to work on those and polish them for a smoother looping. We'll include that in the next patch of the library."

While I very much appreciate their attitude, I wonder how such poor loops got released in the first place for a pro-level library. For the rest of the problems regarding lopsided image and limited range, they simply said that was how the samples are recorded.

Then I went on to ask as Afflatus shares certain features of the same engine, would Afflatus exhibit similar issues? I got no further reply.

I understand Afflatus might mark a new era at Strezov Sampling, but Árva is relatively new also...
I wanted to take the plunge to purchase Afflatus, but after the reply I got and the experience I have with Árva, guess I need to think harder.

I could imagine how inspiring Afflatus could be, but if there are similar quirks to their children's choir lib, Afflatus could be equally "discouraging" for the creative process. And if Strezov's team acknowledges the issues with Árva, how come the library is still sold at such premium price (esp. when there is unlikely any planned fix/upgrade in the foreseeable future)???


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## HBen (Nov 27, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> I got a reply from Strezov Sampling two days ago:
> "we would be able to work on those and polish them for a smoother looping. We'll include that in the next patch of the library."
> 
> While I very much appreciate their attitude, I wonder how such poor loops got released in the first place for a pro-level library. For the rest of the problems regarding lopsided image and limited range, they simply said that was how the samples are recorded.
> ...



Well, at least they are doing some issue and content updates, that is way better than Synchron Strings 1, nothing to be updated. After my experience with VSL, I found the rest of these library developers are more lovely to get along with.


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## mobileavatar (Nov 27, 2018)

HBen said:


> After my experience with VSL, I found the rest of these library developers are more lovely to get along with.



Very true indeed.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 27, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> I got a reply from Strezov Sampling two days ago:
> "we would be able to work on those and polish them for a smoother looping. We'll include that in the next patch of the library."
> 
> While I very much appreciate their attitude, I wonder how such poor loops got released in the first place for a pro-level library. For the rest of the problems regarding lopsided image and limited range, they simply said that was how the samples are recorded.
> ...


Afflatus's stereo image is fine for all the sections. Traditional seating all the way (apart from the experimental or hybrid style patches of course). There are few small oddities in a couple of the legato patches, so I've reported the few I have found and will continue to thrash the library looking for anything else. I'm fairly meticulous when it comes to these things so everything that can be found will be found, for the sake of getting the library as perfect as it possibly can be.


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## HBen (Nov 27, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> Afflatus's stereo image is fine for all the sections. Traditional seating all the way (apart from the experimental or hybrid style patches of course). There are few small oddities in a couple of the legato patches, so I've reported the few I have found and will continue to thrash the library looking for anything else. I'm fairly meticulous when it comes to these things so everything that can be found will be found, for the sake of getting the library as perfect as it possibly can be.



Yes, please. Go on, keep pushing this product to be as perfect as it can be. You guys are great.


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## mobileavatar (Nov 27, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> There are few small oddities in a couple of the legato patches, so I've reported the few I have found and will continue to thrash the library looking for anything else. I'm fairly meticulous when it comes to these things so everything that can be found will be found, for the sake of getting the library as perfect as it possibly can be.



Thank you so much for the hard work! I immediately feel more reassured.


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## SoNowWhat? (Nov 27, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> Thank you so much for the hard work! I immediately feel more reassured.


I feel like chucking my 2c worth in. I’m still d/l Afflatus so can’t comment there but I have Freyja, Wotan and Arva. I remember when Arva was released George spoke of the difficulties around producing that library. I think it was a tougher experience than they were expecting and I think this reflects in the library. Arva is probably the weaker of the three choirs (note, I’m not bashing it at all, just comparing it to Freyja and Wotan). I can only speak to my experience but had you needed/purchased Freyja instead of Arva you’d probably already have Afflatus on your SSD. Is it perfect? Nope. But, I’m very happy with it and I find it very inspiring to play with. I’m expecting a similar response to Afflatus.



Cory Pelizzari said:


> Afflatus's stereo image is fine for all the sections. Traditional seating all the way (apart from the experimental or hybrid style patches of course). There are few small oddities in a couple of the legato patches, so I've reported the few I have found and will continue to thrash the library looking for anything else. I'm fairly meticulous when it comes to these things so everything that can be found will be found, for the sake of getting the library as perfect as it possibly can be.


Leg-end!


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## mobileavatar (Nov 27, 2018)

SoNowWhat? said:


> Arva is probably the weaker of the three choirs (note, I’m not bashing it at all, just comparing it to Freyja and Wotan).



But ironically, Arva is the most expensive among the three libs (not by much though). Just hope they priced it according to quality instead of ROI.



SoNowWhat? said:


> I can only speak to my experience but had you needed/purchased Freyja instead of Arva you’d probably already have Afflatus on your SSD. Is it perfect? Nope. But, I’m very happy with it and I find it very inspiring to play with. I’m expecting a similar response to Afflatus.



You're probably right. I find Arva very inspiring to play with as well to get inspired for ideas. But for production (even for mock-ups), it will take quite a bit of fiddling work unless it's buried in the background.

Someone commented earlier in this thread that Afflatus is more for parts that are intended to be replaced by real strings. Guess I have similar sentiments towards Arva. That's why I keep wondering/hesitating... Apologize for the OT.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 27, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> But ironically, Arva is the most expensive among the three libs (not by much though). Just hope they priced it according to quality instead of ROI.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The "replacement" comment was from the perspective of a pop producer. Afflatus simply isn't for that scene.


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## HelixK (Nov 27, 2018)

@mobileavatar any reason you didn't get Genesis instead of Arva? There was a recent discussion on Facebook and Genesis was the clear favorite. It's on sale until the end of November and I'm very tempted...


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## mobileavatar (Nov 27, 2018)

HelixK said:


> @mobileavatar any reason you didn't get Genesis instead of Arva? There was a recent discussion on Facebook and Genesis was the clear favorite. It's on sale until the end of November and I'm very tempted...



Thanks for the question. I do have Genesis. It's a very nice library. Because of its nice sustains, I find it more suitable for harmonic/chordal passages rather than melodic lines. The attacks are often too strong for the legatos. Even there is a control for that, it's quite challenging to get it sound natural (plus it's very time-consuming to adjust every syllable). I was hoping that's where Arva comes in.. for melodic lines. Despite limited syllable options and all the quirks I encountered, Arva does handle melodies quite musically.

If you listen to Genesis demos, most of them are drenched in reverb...


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## HelixK (Nov 27, 2018)

mobileavatar said:


> Thanks for the question. I do have Genesis. It's a very nice library. Because of its nice sustains, I find it more suitable for harmonic/chordal passages rather than melodic lines. The attacks are often too strong for the legatos. Even there is a control for that, it's quite challenging to get it sound natural (plus it's very time-consuming to adjust every syllable). I was hoping that's where Arva comes in.. for melodic lines. Despite limited syllable options and all the quirks I encountered, Arva does handle melodies quite musically.
> 
> If you listen to Genesis demos, most of them are drenched in reverb...



Thank you so much chief, that was very helpful. It's hard to come across owners of both libraries that know them well. If you could pick only one, which one would you pick and why?

Is it possible to get close to this sound with Genesis? (imagine that's latin instead of english )



Sorry op for hijacking your thread


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## clonewar (Nov 28, 2018)

I'm also considering these two libraries and would love to hear more feedback from owners about their real time playability. Afflatus is particular with the legato and auto-divisi system looks like it might be very inspiring to play in real time. That said, the BS capsule legato patches also look like they're very playable. Any opinions?


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## Vik (Nov 28, 2018)

Both are definitely playable. Berlin is a library which is more feature rich, has more articulations and so on, and Afflatus is configurable in terms of number of players, as descried in another post. 
If you want to create mockups not just as a part of your compositional process, but in order to use for published work, Berlin will take you longer, and has portamento, different vibratos which can be switched between (bot not crossfaded between on the fly out of the box; your vibrato change will be valid from your next note), attack control, fast runs (which I think I read somewhere that Afflatus may get later?) and so on. But if you want to use one of these libraries mainly as a way to compose and get some inspirational support from what you hear, Afflatus could be a better choice, at least for some of us - but read on: Berlin also has some inspirational presets. 

They both come with a lot of presets actually, so you'd have to look up each of the libraries and check what I said about number of articulations. Berlin comes with many short note choices, a number of long note choices and also many dynamic longs, or 'arcs' - and is a more 'logical' library while Afflatus may be at least as inspiring, especially the Lush and Scene d'Amour presets. 
Berlin may be a better library, but if I could take only one of them with me to some remote place to compose, I'd probably choose Afflatus, unless someone wanted me to write something with lots of fast runs and also hear a mockup with all kinds of shorts/longs/arcs.

Berlin Strings comes in a 8-6-5-5-4 configuration, while Afflatus can be layered with itself to get everything between 2 and 15 players (I checked this with the violas, maybe the V1s have even more options?). 

"Afflatus is particular with the legato"... true, but all longs in Berlin can be made legato (although not full adaptive legato as their main legato banks are - check YouTube for Berlin Strings legato), and Afflatus also have some very alive sounding shorts. 

With A you may get extra stuff you may or may not need, and this extra stuff may also have increased the price of the product. This is true for B as well, but Berlin comes with longs/arcs/shorts that you may not need now, but maybe will need later. And, if you'll go for the Berlin expansions A and B, you'll also get access to their Sul Tasto Sustains (soft/immediate) presets which may be the closest you'll get to Afflatus' Lush/Scene d'Amour presets. The Berlin cellos and viola soft sul tastos are brilliant (but then again, I generally think violas and cellos are brilliant!). 

I have found myself sitting down playing and getting ideas more with after my first meeting with Afflatus than I did with Berlin, at least before I discovered Berlin's 'Whole Ensemble Sustains Soft' in the main collection. The individual Berlin Espressivo and and Soft Sustain presets in BS are also very good presets - which 'breathe'. 

With Berlin you may get a more mature library - with more options, especially if you go for the expansions as well, and good 'adaptive legato' presets which gives you a distinct attack if you play a note with high velocity, and a soft attack if you play soft. Afflatus may need more switching between presets (disclaimer: I've had Berlin for years and Afflatus for a couple pf days). 

Since I don't know if you want to mainly compose or create as good mockups as possible - or know what kind of music you want to write, I can't give any proper advice, of course. They are both very good libraries, but in different ways. If you want to control section sizes, have polyphonic legato and divisi, maybe Afflatus is the best choice for you, and if you want to control details and a more 'classical' product with portamento and more vibrato/attack control, Berlin may be your thing.


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## clonewar (Nov 29, 2018)

Thanks very much for the detailed reply @Vik! It's great to get perspective from someone that owns both libraries.

To answer a couple of your questions, these libraries will be for both composing and creating the best mockups possible. I'm a piano/keyboard player and usually write and compose at the keyboard or jot down/record ideas and then play them out at the keyboard later. I play everything in real time as much as possible and then tweak midi where I have to, so libraries that have performance oriented patches are very appealing to me. (Spitfire performance legato patches and Virharmonic Bohemian Violin are a couple of good examples).

Music wise I always want my template to be able to handle anything, but for orchestral work I mainly write what would be considered classic thematic movie score or classical. Not really much of the more modern epic style at this point.

I've wanted to get into the Berlin series for a while and am probably going to pick up at least BS. I really like the sound they've captured at Teldex and have been going through the walkthrough and technical videos and the adaptive legato patches do look very playable and responsive. The multi articulation patches in capsule look very powerful too. Being able to choose new articulations sets and set how they'll be controlled, if they'll be x-fade, etc, all in real time from your hardware controller is awesome. That fits right in my wheelhouse workflow wise.

I'm still undecided on Afflatus at this point. My main concern is that there might be a lot of content in the library that I wouldn't use much, particularly the Experimental and Pads content. Almost impossible to know that until I own it and spend quality time with it though, which of course is always the sample library purchase risk. I do like the sound of the library (from what I've heard so far), and also like that most of it is based around single stylistic patches. Hmm.. not sure if I'm going to be able to make up my mind before the intro discount ends...

Edit.. As I watch the Afflatus videos it seems like the concept is similar to Bohemian Violin, where the instruments/patches kind of lock you into a style of sound and performance. Obviously Afflatus is much larger and has many more styles and performances, but would that be a fair comparison?

Michael


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## cadenzajon (Nov 29, 2018)

Question about Berlin Strings. From the walkthrough videos I see the note attack options seem to be "soft", "immediate" or "accented". Is there any way to fade between these? Frequently I find myself wanting a sound that would be more emphatic than "immediate", but their "accented" attacks are so harsh that I'd have to use them sparingly. How tweakable are these?


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## The Darris (Nov 29, 2018)

cadenzajon said:


> Question about Berlin Strings. From the walkthrough videos I see the note attack options seem to be "soft", "immediate" or "accented". Is there any way to fade between these? Frequently I find myself wanting a sound that would be more emphatic than "immediate", but their "accented" attacks are so harsh that I'd have to use them sparingly. How tweakable are these?



If you load the individual legato patches, they have them built in by default which is based on velocity, I believe. At least, that's how it works in Berlin Brass so I'm making the assumption they've done the same with the Strings.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 29, 2018)

clonewar said:


> Thanks very much for the detailed reply @Vik! It's great to get perspective from someone that owns both libraries.
> 
> To answer a couple of your questions, these libraries will be for both composing and creating the best mockups possible. I'm a piano/keyboard player and usually write and compose at the keyboard or jot down/record ideas and then play them out at the keyboard later. I play everything in real time as much as possible and then tweak midi where I have to, so libraries that have performance oriented patches are very appealing to me. (Spitfire performance legato patches and Virharmonic Bohemian Violin are a couple of good examples).
> 
> ...


Certainly, some patches excel at certain styles of music, but there's only a couple of patches that lock you in to a specific genre, or at least make you think you're locked. For example, I've actually been using the Angelic Strings for a short horror piece.

Don't let the patch name fool your imagination.


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## Vik (Nov 29, 2018)

Agree, Mike. I really like most of the presets in this library, but/and I’m also in the process of renaming some of them into something more boring and informative.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 29, 2018)

Vik said:


> Agree, Mike. I really like most of the presets in this library, but/and I’m also in the process of renaming some of them into something more boring and informative.


Angelic Strings > 6 Piece Soprano Section Mezzo Accompanying 1st Violins Mezzo Vibrato with Legato


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## Simon Ravn (Nov 29, 2018)

HelixK said:


> why should anyone be offended about sample libraries? That would be sort of pathetic...
> 
> Afflatus has many shortcomings but you only point out the flaws of other developers like Orchestral Tools and Spitfire Audio. Why?
> 
> I understand you got the library for free and you even mentioned in your video that you wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise. I wonder how that changes the way you perceive Afflatus, even on an subconscious level.



Cory is obiously biased towards Afflatus. He has put down a lot of competing libaries along the way, including CSS, and often being wrong about each libraries' strengths/weaknesses. And sugarcoating Afflatus quite a bit including comments like "Afflatus' stereo image is fine for all sections" in this very thread, despite obvious stereo imaging issues that I heard in pretty much all demos.

That is not very credible, knowing he is in bed with Strezov. Certainly people should keep that in mind when reading Cory's comments.

Have myself being close to pulling the trigger on Afflatus - each time too many things I heard just slapped my hand and stopped me from doing it. It would obviously be easier to take part in these talks if I owned the library, which again almost made me make the purchase. But then I tell myself why I shouldn't. As mentioned earlier, I will surely pick it up at a sale but at the current price I just think I'll regret it.


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## HBen (Nov 29, 2018)

Simon Ravn said:


> Cory is obiously biased towards Afflatus. He has put down a lot of competing libaries along the way, including CSS, and often being wrong about each libraries' strengths/weaknesses. And sugarcoating Afflatus quite a bit including comments like "Afflatus' stereo image is fine for all sections" in this very thread, despite obvious stereo imaging issues that I heard in pretty much all demos.
> 
> That is not very credible, knowing he is in bed with Strezov. Certainly people should keep that in mind when reading Cory's comments.
> 
> Have myself being close to pulling the trigger on Afflatus - each time too many things I heard just slapped my hand and stopped me from doing it. It would obviously be easier to take part in these talks if I owned the library, which again almost made me make the purchase. But then I tell myself why I shouldn't. As mentioned earlier, I will surely pick it up at a sale but at the current price I just think I'll regret it.



I've paid 764 euros or so for VSL Synchron Strings I, and look at what we have got? Synthy sounds, flawed legato and false advertisement. Now I have paid 649 euros for Afflatus, and I am quite happy with it. They are fixing issues, and recording new contents to make this product looks better. So, as I said, after my experience with VSL, I found the rest of these library developers are more lovely to get along with.

VSL keeps silent and do not respond to any request for fixing Synchron Strings 1. We will always remember this. Strezov is at least communicating with customers, and they are doing something for us within their reach. That is a good attitude, they promised a content update after the official release of the product, and that is deserving my order on Afflatus.


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## Simon Ravn (Nov 29, 2018)

HBen said:


> I've paid 764 euros or so for VSL Synchron Strings I, and look at what we have got? Synthy sounds, flawed legato and false advertisement. Now I have paid 649 euros for Afflatus, and I am quite happy with it. They are fixing issues, and recording new contents to make this product looks better. So, as I said, after my experience with VSL, I found the rest of these library developers are more lovely to get along with.
> 
> VSL keeps silent and do not respond to any request for fixing Synchron Strings 1. We will always remember this. Strezov is at least communicating with customers, and they are doing something for us within their reach. That is a good attitude, they promised a content update after the official release of the product, and that is deserving my order on Afflatus.



I am not bringing down Strezov. I think they have done marvelously on this forum, and I own a few of their products, which I like a lot. I also bought Synchron, and yes, I am not using it and probably won't be. I fear it could be the same with Afflatus because of its dated sound (most likely due to the equipment used for recording - mics not quite up to the task e.g.) and other issues like the stereo image jumping + phasing I hear in all demos. It could have been an awesome library, is my impression, but the foundation for it just doesn't seem to have been in place.


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## MaxOctane (Nov 29, 2018)

Simon Ravn said:


> Cory is obiously biased towards Afflatus... That is not very credible, knowing he is in bed with Strezov.



Let's please stay civil and not question each other's integrity.


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## HBen (Nov 29, 2018)

Simon Ravn said:


> I am not bringing down Strezov. I think they have done marvelously on this forum, and I own a few of their products, which I like a lot. I also bought Synchron, and yes, I am not using it and probably won't be. I fear it could be the same with Afflatus because of its dated sound (most likely due to the equipment used for recording - mics not quite up to the task e.g.) and other issues like the stereo image jumping + phasing I hear in all demos. It could have been an awesome library, is my impression, but the foundation for it just doesn't seem to have been in place.



In my eyes, they are doing a better job than VSL, so if you have found any issues and problems with Afflatus, please go to find Strezov, shoot him an email, or even schedule a video conference via Skype with him, I think he said that before.

Well, if what's done is done, and it's not possible to fix (Just like Synchron Strings I, they will not fix it, even it's possible to do so), and I guess that's it, you can walk away, save your money and expect that maybe a next string library will do a better job.

For Cory, he has received the copy for free to review....so I think he is somehow excited, but that's not a big deal. As a friend or people who benefits from someone else, will always talk things at good side, right? That is how this world runs.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 30, 2018)

Simon Ravn said:


> Cory is obiously biased towards Afflatus. He has put down a lot of competing libaries along the way, including CSS, and often being wrong about each libraries' strengths/weaknesses. And sugarcoating Afflatus quite a bit including comments like "Afflatus' stereo image is fine for all sections" in this very thread, despite obvious stereo imaging issues that I heard in pretty much all demos.
> 
> That is not very credible, knowing he is in bed with Strezov. Certainly people should keep that in mind when reading Cory's comments.
> 
> Have myself being close to pulling the trigger on Afflatus - each time too many things I heard just slapped my hand and stopped me from doing it. It would obviously be easier to take part in these talks if I owned the library, which again almost made me make the purchase. But then I tell myself why I shouldn't. As mentioned earlier, I will surely pick it up at a sale but at the current price I just think I'll regret it.


Claiming lies about me on this thread is spurious and disgusting. I have never put down CSS, and anyone with a brain who has seen my video on it knows this. Also, I don't even need to defend myself regarding my videos and my thoughts on Afflatus, as those who know better will know the truth. If you are in league with others on this site who hold a grudge against me and are attempting to hijack this thread the same way someone else did earlier, then you should be ashamed of yourself. End of discussion.

*<<MODERATORS NOTE>> As one might guess, drama ensued after this post. Simon's post was a fair one, and it's fair that Cory responded. The posts after this, while legitimate and also (possibly) fair, don't add much to the topic, though, so we've moved those to the Drama Zone.*


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## Vik (Nov 30, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> Angelic Strings > 6 Piece Soprano Section Mezzo Accompanying 1st Violins Mezzo Vibrato with Legato



No, more like what I've started to do here:


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 30, 2018)

Vik said:


> No, more like what I've started to do here:


Hmm... Still pretty close... Just slightly abridged... It'd be cool if one could insert a bass cleff into the patch name for the basses...


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## chocobitz825 (Nov 30, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> Seriously, CSS takes practise, and even Alex Wallbank says it in his video. This is ridiculous making such a big deal over such a general sentence. I'll no longer be replying to your comments because you're only here to cause trouble from the looks of things. Have all the last says you want, go nuts.





Simon Ravn said:


> I am not in any "league with others". The comment regarding CSS that I mostly thought was not true at all was this, from another thread where a user asked about different aspects of CSS vs Afflatus: "Playability - CS takes a lot of practice, whereas Afflatus is user friendly and has time saving polyphonic legato and divisi switching." I think CSS is very easy to use out of the box. I always considered CSS (and also CSSS) the most easily playable and consistently programmed string library. Which is why I don't understand your comment.
> 
> Also consider that in pretty much all of Afflatus' demos, the legato suffer from the "suction effect", whereas CSS performs very well legato wise. You just tend to bring forward the positives of Afflatus and ignore the negatives...




Sorry to barge in but that’s just an opinion, not a fact, and Cory thinking otherwise is not a bias. I honestly don’t think CSS is that “playable”, at least not in the way I’d prefer. It’s one I use occasionally but in the end I’d agree that afflatus is easier to get up and go with. At least in my opinion that is.


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## HelixK (Nov 30, 2018)

Vik said:


> Both are definitely playable. Berlin is a library which is more feature rich, has more articulations and so on, and Afflatus is configurable in terms of number of players, as descried in another post.
> If you want to create mockups not just as a part of your compositional process, but in order to use for published work, Berlin will take you longer, and has portamento, different vibratos which can be switched between (bot not crossfaded between on the fly out of the box; your vibrato change will be valid from your next note), attack control, fast runs (which I think I read somewhere that Afflatus may get later?) and so on. But if you want to use one of these libraries mainly as a way to compose and get some inspirational support from what you hear, Afflatus could be a better choice, at least for some of us - but read on: Berlin also has some inspirational presets.
> 
> They both come with a lot of presets actually, so you'd have to look up each of the libraries and check what I said about number of articulations. Berlin comes with many short note choices, a number of long note choices and also many dynamic longs, or 'arcs' - and is a more 'logical' library while Afflatus may be at least as inspiring, especially the Lush and Scene d'Amour presets.
> ...



Thanks Vik, that was an excellent read. Finally some perspective from an experienced Berlin user that, despite the short time with Afflatus, knows his ways with a new library and has no bias towards either of them.

I understand things get a bit crazy during holiday season (poor Jesus) and there's this time pressure going on, but even at a discount, both libraries are still very expensive.

Don't fall for basic manipulative marketing tactics and remember that there's always the "greatest sale we've ever done" an email away.


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## mobileavatar (Nov 30, 2018)

Simon Ravn said:


> other issues like the stereo image jumping + phasing I hear in all demos. It could have been an awesome library, is my impression, but the foundation for it just doesn't seem to have been in place.



That's what I noticed in many of the Afflatus demos also. The fact similar stereo image problems exist in Strezov's children's choir lib. If they could not offer a fix for Árva, I wonder what kind of magic they could pull with Afflatus.

It would be great if Strezov could show us they have the technical capabilities to solve those issues esp. with the slightly older products.

George's initial responses on the forum are very much appreciated. Yet, his support team basically dropped its response after the first reply, which IMHO, could hardly be qualified as sincere supporting efforts.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 30, 2018)

If anyone else who owns the library (besides myself) would care to chime in and say whether or not they hear stereo imaging or phasing issues in Afflatus, that would be great.


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## Strezov (Nov 30, 2018)

Simon Ravn said:


> I fear it could be the same with Afflatus because of its dated sound (most likely due to the equipment used for recording - mics not quite up to the task e.g.) and other issues like the stereo image jumping + phasing I hear in all demos.


Hi Simon, obviously music is a matter of perspective and is subjective, as sample libraries and virtual instruments, so I don't want to get into that discussion. However, I'd just like to point out that Bulgaria is not a 5th world country as some people believe  and we do have mics that are up to the task.
Please feel free to check the microphone list of Sofia Session Studio: http://www.fourformusic.com/studio/

Generally in our sessions, I asked for Neumann M150 for Decca Tree, U87 for the celli, basses, violas, Schoeps MK4 for the high strings, all amped through Millenia HV-3D and going in Apogee Symphony I/O (it's not in the list at the moment because the studio switched to Avid HD). But - as I said in the video - that's hardly the most important part. I don't believe in thousand lines of code, of recording a snare drum with 45 microphones. Reasoning behind this - I, as a composer, need tools that are simple and get the job done. That's the philosophy behind our sampling company - people might like it or might not. That's life!

---

@mobileavatar - yes, we are already going through all patches of Arva and seeing what can be done based on your feedback - we're aiming to do this in December, but depends on how things with Afflatus will continue - we have tons of files that we recorded (we already did the scene d'amour celli if you haven't seen the video) and that need to be polished. Moreover, we have a 30-day slot with Native Instruments to deliver an instrument update - which is almost finished, based on suggestions and feedback mostly on VI Control. So, after that's done we're going to move on to checking Árva. I do have to say that the panning is baked in the samples already so I'm not sure if this will be fixed. *However*, if many people complain about this (_and honestly you have been the first among many users to send us such an email_) we will gladly go back and remix the recording files. Our support staff consists of one guy replying to many emails - regarding educational discounts, possible add-on features for Afflatus, supporting Native Access implementation (which is I think hardly our job) and even just talking with our user base (some really fantastic stories there!).

---
And finally:


> That is not very credible, knowing he is in bed with Strezov.


I find this offensive towards Cory, not to mention the actual wording. I can guarantee that he does not work for us and just received a copy for review. And I thought that this is a community of grown-ups, not a DOTA 2 discussion board?

P.S.
I am member of DOTA 2 discussion boards


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## HelixK (Nov 30, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> If anyone else who owns the library (besides myself) would care to chime in and say whether or not they hear stereo imaging or phasing issues in Afflatus, that would be great.



Cory, I believe you do not own Berlin Strings, Chamber Strings or Intimate Strings, am I correct?

That didn't prevent you from giving very specific feedback about libraries that you do not own nor used. So why this now? I do not need to own Afflatus to hear issues, including the stereo imaging issues I mentioned last week. It's in every demo I've heard so far, including your review. So, why are you so quick to shut down anything but praise?

You seem to overlook issues with Afflatus that many are reporting, yet you don't mind making this sort of comments about other libraries:

"Berlin Strings has weak scripting and legato. I wouldn't pick on this flaw if the library wasn't so expensive. There are some who will defend the library to their death but the facts remain, just like how Chamber Strings has many flaws with the scripting and legato. In this capacity, I don't care if anyone takes offense, because all I care about is hard data, not bias. Afflatus may not be entirely flawless but it's definitely better scripted and presented."

That's your tone every single time someone mentions anything remotely close to a flaw with Afflatus. Do you work or speak on the behalf of Strezov Sampling? I know you are going to say that you are only trying to help and that's really nice, but when you take over the conversation in every single thread, only to dismiss others, it starts to wear off.

I've been talking with other composers on other platforms that are also following us here, and most are avoiding leaving comments because they know you will instantly jump in. I recommended them to directly contact Strezov in this case.

Your review was very helpful, but I'm afraid that's not the case here. I want to be clear that this is NOT a confrontation, as you seem to be very sensitive to opposing opinions, I'm just asking you to maybe chill a little and let others speak their minds without going full guns blazing...


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## Simon Ravn (Nov 30, 2018)

Strezov said:


> Hi Simon, obviously music is a matter of perspective and is subjective, as sample libraries and virtual instruments, so I don't want to get into that discussion. However, I'd just like to point out that Bulgaria is not a 5th world country as some people believe  and we do have mics that are up to the task.
> Please feel free to check the microphone list of Sofia Session Studio: http://www.fourformusic.com/studio/



Hi. I am not saying that Bulgaria is a 5th world country. I am just saying that also from personal experience, the sound recorded by engineers in Eastern Europe just seems to be dated/old sounding in lack of better words. Like either the equipment used or the engineers put a pillow on the recording. I don't know much about mics, but I know that when we did our custom samples recordings many years ago in Prague, we got a very high resolution recording showing lots of overtones and air. We brought our own technician, who brought his own mics (a set of limited edition Bruel & Kjær for the decca tree). I think he used what was there for spot mics.

The result was very different when I returned there (to the very same venue) a couple of years later to record a score for a game; the sound was closed, too up front, unpleasant and well.. old sounding. We used the equipment and engineer in place that time around. Totally different sound. Ever since, I know the people I work for have brought their own engineer and possibly mics to wherever they go (I think it is actually Bulgaria or Slovakia these days) and the results are very different. So obviously some technical/cultural thing must be different.

As said, I don't know much about mics so I can't really comment whether those Neumanns are considered state of the art for orchestral recordings, and used in London/LA etc. as well. They possibly could be and it is then only a matter of engineering and possibly the placement of mics...?


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 30, 2018)

HelixK said:


> Cory, I believe you do not own Berlin Strings, Chamber Strings or Intimate Strings, am I correct?
> 
> That didn't prevent you from giving very specific feedback about libraries that you do not own nor used. So why this now? I do not need to own Afflatus to hear issues, including the stereo imaging issues I mentioned last week. It's in every demo I've heard so far, including your review. So, why are you so quick to shut down anything but praise?
> 
> ...


You assume I do not own the libraries I mention. You are wrong. Please do not accuse me of lying without proof.

Claiming on behalf of others that they are afraid to post on this thread because of me is presumptuous. Anyone can post any thoughts they have on the library here, and when I respond with my thoughts on how the library works and what I've found while playing is not "taking over conversations". If someone is offended that I'm posting about the things I like in Afflatus, that is preposterous.

When I say Afflatus is better presented and has better legato scripting than Chamber Strings or Berlin Strings, I absolutely mean it. Do a side by side comparison and count the legato features each library has next to one another. Once again, I don't care about bias, only HARD DATA.

In regards to me being defensive - I have only been defensive towards posts that are directed at me, like yours is. Please stop picking points about individual's posts and only post your thoughts on Afflatus or Berlin Strings in this thread.

I'm sorry my high opinion of Afflatus seems to be a problem for you, but I'm not about to change my opinion, or the facts regarding the library, for anyone or any reason.

I'm still waiting for someone who has Afflatus to post an example of these stereo imaging issues you mention by the way. Violins 1 to the left, Violins 2 slightly to the left, Violas slightly to the right, Celli to the right, Basses to the right. Experimental patches need not follow this format. It's all there for those who are using the library and can hear for themselves. If they do find a problem, I encourage them to post an example so Strezov can hear it.


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## Strezov (Nov 30, 2018)

If it's what I think it is, that might be Bulgaria, can't share details though. But I can assure you the engineering team and equipment was in-house. But that's very much off-topic, happy to continue this over PM. Sorry, maybe I get a bit worked up...


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## Mike Fox (Nov 30, 2018)

I know this is a Berlin Strings vs Afflatus thread, but since CSS has been brought up multiple times, I just wanted to post a quick demonstration comparing the legato.

Right off the bat, Afflatus is MUCH easier to play. There's just no way around it. It took me several takes to get the hang of the CSS, while Afflatus was a walk in the park.

The first clip is the Violins 1 patch from CSS in Con Sordino, followed by the Scene d'Amour patch.



The second clip is the standard Violins 1 patch from CSS, followed by the Lush Strings patch from Afflatus.



I also wanted to note that no reverb has been added. As you can hear, Afflatus is much closer/dryer sounding (which I greatly prefer). CSS is more lush, but I feel that can get in the way of detail at times.

Personally, I'd take Afflatus.


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## sostenuto (Nov 30, 2018)

Thank-you for these comparisons. 
With BF Sale over, notable CSS /CSSS cost advantage is gone. 

Oldheimers' ears pushes me to headphones and several repeats. 
_(more 'clarity' for me on Track #2 _ Afflatus)_

Afflatus decision now impacting all others.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 30, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Thank-you for these comparisons.
> With BF Sale over, notable CSS /CSSS cost advantage is gone.
> _
> Oldheimers' ears pushes me to headphones and several repeats._
> ...


The library will get bigger next year, which will essentially mean all the free content gets added to the current price for nothing, so that's something to consider.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 30, 2018)

Mike Fox said:


> I know this is a Berlin Strings vs Afflatus thread, but since CSS has been brought up multiple times, I just wanted to post a quick demonstration comparing the legato.
> 
> Right off the bat, Afflatus is MUCH easier to play. There's just no way around it. It took me several takes to get the hang of the CSS, while Afflatus was a walk in the park.
> 
> ...



Detail is a gap I've noticed with CSS and CSSS. I can get a great large section sound and a great solo sound, but I always wanted there to be a chamber CSS for the in between parts. Afflatus has a variety of chamber sections, which I found to be refreshing, considering chamber ensembles aren't common in sampling for some reason.


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## MaxOctane (Nov 30, 2018)

@Strezov for all us last-minute people here, when exactly does sale end?


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## Strezov (Nov 30, 2018)

The website is according to Sofia time, so GMT+2 (2 hours ahead of London). If someone misses the deadline with a few hours or so we can give a coupon code - just need to contact support (voucher will be valid tomorrow though, not in 2 weeks )).


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## The Darris (Nov 30, 2018)

Concerning Stereo Image "issues." 

I haven't heard an audio examples of this by those complaining. With that said, I'm making an assumption. 

There is an audio stereo difference between the Full Section and the divisi section when split. I've explained why in previous posts on other threads for Afflatus. To keep it simple, players in a room move air. The more players moving air, the more reflections in the room we get which gives us an audible spacial awareness in the stereo field. Now, cut those players in half. Less players means less air which means less reflections which means..yep..you guessed..less audible spacial awareness. This means we get a more "direct" sound from the smaller divisi sections. 

I had speculated in previous posts about this with a confirmation from Strezov Sampling. Their divisi sections were simply taking the front half desks of each section and recording them. This means we lose those rear players and their reflections which help fill out the stereo field. Because they recorded the front half, we get a more direct sound given where the mics are placed. Couple that concept with the fact that they most likely recorded the divisi sections in a different session/day, we are going to have some subtle discrepancies in the mix but the stereo field "issue" you are hearing isn't an issue. That's just how sound works in a recording environment. It's up to the mixer (ie; the composer in this case) to figure out how to control that sound and make it work for your composition if you choose to do so. I'd rather have the more raw and natural recording than an over-processed, awkwardly panned mess to deal with. 

In terms of phasing. Again. I haven't heard examples of this and when I tested this library for a few weeks before reviewing it, I didn't notice anything inherently disturbing to my ears concerning this. That doesn't mean it's not there of course but if you own this library and have these issues, make a recording of it and send that in a support ticket, so George and his team can fix it. As he's said early. They have a 30 day window to get an instrument update to NI. I don't know if this is an issue that needs to be included in that time frame but at least they will have a good example of those issues and will fix them in due time.


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## prodigalson (Nov 30, 2018)

The Darris said:


> It's up to the mixer (ie; the composer in this case) to figure out how to control that sound and make it work for your composition if you choose to do so. I'd rather have the more raw and natural recording than an over-processed, awkwardly panned mess to deal with.



sure, or they could have done what I assume other folks do and sample half the desks in a front to back configuration and not strictly just the desks closest to the close mics and closest to the center of the stereo field of the tree?


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## The Darris (Nov 30, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> sure, or they could have done what I assume other folks do and sample half the desks in a front to back configuration and not strictly just the desks closest to the close mics and closest to the center of the stereo field of the tree?


It wouldn't matter. Even if they did it front to back as you suggest, you will still get a thinner sound and more direct sound of the first chair and player sitting behind them. We aren't talking about a large ensemble here. It's between 3-6 players for those divisi sections. Regardless of configuration, you are going to get a very discernible sound in the positioning. That's how sound works in these environments. I'm sure you know this already though.


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## prodigalson (Nov 30, 2018)

The Darris said:


> It wouldn't matter. Even if they did it front to back as you suggest, you will still get a thinner sound and more direct sound of the first chair and player sitting behind them. We aren't talking about a large ensemble here. It's between 3-6 players for those divisi sections. Regardless of configuration, you are going to get a very discernible sound in the positioning. That's how sound works in these environments. I'm sure you know this already though.



Sure, I guess Im thinking in terms of a symphonic section size...

but I took a listen to other libraries I have that have recorded half their sections and don't notice as much of a difference in the spatial positioning between them. Thinner sound yes...dramatic shifts in the stereo field? not so much. Checked out one ambient library and one drier.

SA Albion 2 Loegria Full section (i believe about 8 players?)

SA Albion 2 Loegria Half section (so 4?)

Spitfire Studio Strings 8 players

Spitfire Studio Strings 4 players

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/loegria-full-mp3.16803/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/loegria-half-mp3.16804/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/ssts-8-mp3.16805/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/ssts-4-mp3.16806/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## Mike Fox (Nov 30, 2018)

The Darris said:


> Concerning Stereo Image "issues."
> 
> I haven't heard an audio examples of this by those complaining. With that said, I'm making an assumption.
> 
> ...


 I honestly haven't heard any phasing issues either. Then again, there have been claims that Afflatus sounds "dated".

I'm honestly not sure how people come up with this stuff, but I'll just assume it's due to the fact that perception of sound is ...subjective?

Why might you personally think such claims have been made?


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 30, 2018)

MaxOctane said:


> @Strezov for all us last-minute people here, when exactly does sale end?


It's ended.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Nov 30, 2018)

The Darris said:


> Concerning Stereo Image "issues."
> 
> I haven't heard an audio examples of this by those complaining. With that said, I'm making an assumption.
> 
> ...


That pretty much sums it up. There have been times with other libraries that I thought I heard stereo image problems as well, when what I was hearing were reflections from the other side of the hall when using far mics - also, I noticed with libraries like Chamber Strings, the decca tree won't share the same specific image as just the rigs, ambient mics or close mics - that's because the decca tree configuration wasn't originally designed to present a faithful stereo image of a section, but was rather designed to get a full sound that jumped out at the listener.


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 1, 2018)

The Darris said:


> Concerning Stereo Image "issues."
> 
> I haven't heard an audio examples of this by those complaining. With that said, I'm making an assumption.
> 
> ...



Obviously I don't own the library, so I can't tell if what you are describing is actually what is causing the stereo imaging problems. I can just say that it causes an unnatural sound and is an annoyance when listening to the music created. 8DIO had some issues with some of their string libraries that reminds me of this and this was not due to section sizes changing or anything like that. So until it is proved that this is only a problem when switching between sections, we don't really know, do we? 

Regarding phasing I just think it is inherent to the recorded sound I am afraid. And maybe phasing is not the right technical term to describe what is going on but it is the closest label I can put on it.

If you guys don't hear these issues, good for you, it won't bother you.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Dec 1, 2018)

Simon Ravn said:


> Obviously I don't own the library, so I can't tell if what you are describing is actually what is causing the stereo imaging problems. I can just say that it causes an unnatural sound and is an annoyance when listening to the music created. 8DIO had some issues with some of their string libraries that reminds me of this and this was not due to section sizes changing or anything like that. So until it is proved that this is only a problem when switching between sections, we don't really know, do we?
> 
> Regarding phasing I just think it is inherent to the recorded sound I am afraid. And maybe phasing is not the right technical term to describe what is going on but it is the closest label I can put on it.
> 
> If you guys don't hear these issues, good for you, it won't bother you.


Having played Adagio and Anthology I can say for certain that those libraries suffered stereo imaging fairly badly, although when compared to Afflatus's imaging it's night and day. If you would like, I can post raw examples of each mic position in Afflatus with a quick riff for each section and you can pinpoint exactly which part is causing the issue you hear. That we if we do find anything it can be brought to Strezov's attention quickly.


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## Erick - BVA (Dec 1, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> That pretty much sums it up. There have been times with other libraries that I thought I heard stereo image problems as well, when what I was hearing were reflections from the other side of the hall when using far mics - also, I noticed with libraries like Chamber Strings, the decca tree won't share the same specific image as just the rigs, ambient mics or close mics - that's because the decca tree configuration wasn't originally designed to present a faithful stereo image of a section, but was rather designed to get a full sound that jumped out at the listener.


Funny, I was just going to say something along these lines. But I opted not to because I have no experience with this in-depth of sampling, and I have no official training in acoustics. But it just seemed logical. I was thinking it may be more in the lines of an auditory illusion. Perhaps even certain frequencies are more prominent at causing this issue. I suppose this phenomenon could happen live as well. I guess I'm thinking about how high/med/low frequencies may reflect off surfaces differently, and travel differently. So I think in a sample library, any of these imperfections in acoustics are going to be amplified because you are isolating a certain perspective with a mic.
It's one thing if they didn't keep the mics in the same position when recording each RR or Velocity. But I am assuming that all of the RR and Velocity layers for a specific articulation were recorded in the same session, in a relatively small window of time. So I wouldn't think that that would be the cause. If there are stereo imaging issues, I'd be really curious of the cause. It may indeed be due to mic choice and positioning of the mics, or room acoustics, or a combination of things.
All of that being said, I have no issues with the sound. If I notice something glaring I will certainly say something.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Dec 1, 2018)

The following WAVs contain a legato riff played for each section's close, decca and hall mics for Chamber Violins I & II, Chamber Violas, Chamber Celli and Lush Basses (there are only Lush Basses for legato). You'll notice that the close mics place the sections in traditional seating, whereas the decca mics contain a more centred and full stereo image, while you'll hear the reflections from the walls in the hall mics, giving them a wider image. If anyone would like examples made with different patches or mic mixes, feel free to request and I'll post them as well.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a281nvelkod9jzi/AACIBVQEEJQofQ-xqNwZ_cBpa?dl=0


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## Cory Pelizzari (Dec 1, 2018)

Sibelius19 said:


> Funny, I was just going to say something along these lines. But I opted not to because I have no experience with this in-depth of sampling, and I have no official training in acoustics. But it just seemed logical. I was thinking it may be more in the lines of an auditory illusion. Perhaps even certain frequencies are more prominent at causing this issue. I suppose this phenomenon could happen live as well. I guess I'm thinking about how high/med/low frequencies may reflect off surfaces differently, and travel differently. So I think in a sample library, any of these imperfections in acoustics are going to be amplified because you are isolating a certain perspective with a mic.
> It's one thing if they didn't keep the mics in the same position when recording each RR or Velocity. But I am assuming that all of the RR and Velocity layers for a specific articulation were recorded in the same session, in a relatively small window of time. So I wouldn't think that that would be the cause. If there are stereo imaging issues, I'd be really curious of the cause. It may indeed be due to mic choice and positioning of the mics, or room acoustics, or a combination of things.
> All of that being said, I have no issues with the sound. If I notice something glaring I will certainly say something.


My hypothesis on this would be these following possibilities - the mics when mixed together create a very full image which isn't in line with classical recording and/or the lush sections contain two sample sets to facilitate divisi switching, so the layering could be causing what some would perceive as blur or over-saturation. Not sure though unless I put up examples of everything to test these ideas.


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## Erick - BVA (Dec 1, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> My hypothesis on this would be these following possibilities - the mics when mixed together create a very full image which isn't in line with classical recording and/or the lush sections contain two sample sets to facilitate divisi switching, so the layering could be causing what some would perceive as blur or over-saturation. Not sure though unless I put up examples of everything to test these ideas.


I am only hearing jumping around in the 2nd and 3rd examples of each articulation/patch. It doesn't seem to be the main frequencies, but rather sub-harmonics and harmonics of the main notes. But overall there still seems to be a consistency of the behavior of the sound. So it still sounds natural to me. It seems believable to me, like it's how it may be heard live. I feel like we may be getting into some subjective territory. I've never seen a sample library analyzed in this way. I wonder if we did examples like this with other libraries if we'd see the same or similar things. The only way to truly test this is to do double-blind tests.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Dec 1, 2018)

Sibelius19 said:


> I am only hearing jumping around in the 2nd and 3rd examples of each articulation/patch. It doesn't seem to be the main frequencies, but rather sub-harmonics and harmonics of the main notes. But overall there still seems to be a consistency of the behavior of the sound. So it still sounds natural to me. It seems believable to me, like it's how it may be heard live. I feel like we may be getting into some subjective territory. I've never seen a sample library analyzed in this way. I wonder if we did examples like this with other libraries if we'd see the same or similar things. The only way to truly test this is to do double-blind tests.


Yes, we would in fact see similar things, just with different anomalies depending on the space the strings were sampled in - for example Air Studios London for Chamber Strings. You'll notice that some libraries have more tight and distant images (classical) whereas the more cinematic-style libraries will have a closer/mid sound that's fuller and wider, which may cause more stereo perception and "jumps". Close mics tend to be similar barring mic choice and post processing.


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## ionian (Dec 1, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> The following WAVs contain a legato riff played for each section's close, decca and hall mics for Chamber Violins I & II, Chamber Violas, Chamber Celli and Lush Basses (there are only Lush Basses for legato). You'll notice that the close mics place the sections in traditional seating, whereas the decca mics contain a more centred and full stereo image, while you'll hear the reflections from the walls in the hall mics, giving them a wider image. If anyone would like examples made with different patches or mic mixes, feel free to request and I'll post them as well.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a281nvelkod9jzi/AACIBVQEEJQofQ-xqNwZ_cBpa?dl=0



In all your examples, first one is fine. But the second two (decca and hall) have phase issues. You can hear it instantly. Third one (Hall) is worse than the second (decca) though. It's the same for all four instruments.

With both decca and hall the minute it plays, you can hear how ultra wide it sounds and the middle sounds like it's sucked away, or a void (at least that's how I always hear phase issues).

I then dropped both into the daw and put both Nugen visualizer on it and the waves dorrough meter and both the phase light on the dorrough meter lit up for decca and tree, and the polar display in visualizer put the spikes in the out of phase area, confirming what my ears told me. But you don't need meters to tell, you can hear it instantly because it's pretty strong.

A lot of people, if they don't have engineering experience often mistake phase issues for wide stereo and actually (especially for dance music) messing with the phase is used to make ultra wide dance tracks that sound like they're wider than the speakers. It's not great to do but people do it anyway. But for me, it drives me nuts because it sounds like I'm listening on headphones but with my speakers - I hear the sound in my left and right ears but the middle of my head feels like it's in an anechoic chamber.

As to whether it's baked into the samples or happened in mixing or editing is anyone's guess. It's very possible no one checked for phase issues during the recording session or it was so hectic no one heard it. It could happen a lot of ways - it could just be that the multiple mics for the decca and hall were set up incorrectly or it's possible one of the mics (especially if it's older) or an xlr were wired incorrectly with pin 3 hot which would cause phase issues with that mic. Vintage mics especially can be wired with either pin 2 or 3 hot (there was no standard back then) and so it used to be de rigueur to test mics for phase before recording to be sure.

The good news is that this should be all fixable as long as the samples are all recorded on their own tracks, as they most likely are. If the mics are set up badly or incorrectly, it could just be a matter of shifting some of the mics a few milliseconds forward or back. If it's a pin 3 hot problem, then the phase needs to be flipped for that mic's track. Of course if the mic setups were submixed to stereo for recording then the library is screwed. But I highly doubt that because these days with tracks being so plentiful, there's no reason to not record everything on its own track. Submixing is a 50s/60s thing.

The bad news is that they have to go back and basically do this for all the recordings and all the samples so it could be very time consuming. Especially if they submixed everything to stereo before they edited. Then they'd have to fix the phase issues, submix again and re-edit all over again.

Anyway, that's my take on the whole thing.


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## Simon Ravn (Dec 1, 2018)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> The following WAVs contain a legato riff played for each section's close, decca and hall mics for Chamber Violins I & II, Chamber Violas, Chamber Celli and Lush Basses (there are only Lush Basses for legato). You'll notice that the close mics place the sections in traditional seating, whereas the decca mics contain a more centred and full stereo image, while you'll hear the reflections from the walls in the hall mics, giving them a wider image. If anyone would like examples made with different patches or mic mixes, feel free to request and I'll post them as well.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a281nvelkod9jzi/AACIBVQEEJQofQ-xqNwZ_cBpa?dl=0



Thanks for posting this. I don't hear any huge stereo imagining problems in those examples that I think would bother me. So that's good. I do hear some timbre shifts (like at 0:22 in the 2nd violins Decca) and I think what I refered to as phasing issues - at least juding by these examples - stem mainly from the Hall mics, which e.g. in the 1st vlns from 0:31 onwards have a strange "warbled tape" effect to it in some strange way.

Thanks for doing this! Certainly shows that the problems I hear in some of the demos could be limited to specific patches or mics.

EDIT: I haven't done analysis on it like ionian, so he might be right there are issues with the decca's too, but not too apparent to me right now. I had quite some wine last night so that could certainly have an impact on my hearing right now Will give it another whirl with fresh ears tomorrow.


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## madfloyd (Dec 1, 2018)

Mike Fox said:


> I know this is a Berlin Strings vs Afflatus thread, but since CSS has been brought up multiple times, I just wanted to post a quick demonstration comparing the legato.
> 
> Right off the bat, Afflatus is MUCH easier to play. There's just no way around it. It took me several takes to get the hang of the CSS, while Afflatus was a walk in the park.
> 
> ...





I'm hearing stereo imaging issues with Afflatus in these examples. For example the first clip at 28 seconds pings back and forth between the left and right channels. Anyone else notice this?


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## madfloyd (Dec 1, 2018)

ionian said:


> In all your examples, first one is fine. But the second two (decca and hall) have phase issues. You can hear it instantly. Third one (Hall) is worse than the second (decca) though. It's the same for all four instruments.



I only listened to the violins but I do hear this.


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## Erick - BVA (Dec 1, 2018)

ionian said:


> In all your examples, first one is fine. But the second two (decca and hall) have phase issues. You can hear it instantly. Third one (Hall) is worse than the second (decca) though. It's the same for all four instruments.
> 
> With both decca and hall the minute it plays, you can hear how ultra wide it sounds and the middle sounds like it's sucked away, or a void (at least that's how I always hear phase issues).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the analysis. I'm wondering though, is it possible to get a "false positive" with layered instruments? I mean, you should be able to tell by just dropping the waveform into your DAW if it is out of phase. I should be able to record a piece with these patches and it will show that it is out of phase when I mix down the track. I shouldn't need a meter to tell me that. So if a meter is telling me that, but the actual visualization of the waveform isn't, could it just be the meter is getting a false positive based on multiple layers of the same instruments playing? Some level of phasing is natural when layering certain instruments. It seems string instruments would be a prime candidate for that sort of phenomenon.
I'm coming from a place of ignorance and complete noobishness. But just something I thought of.

I downloaded some of the waveform and measured the phase correlation. It's showing mostly around 0, with occasional dips into negative and positive (thought not anywhere near -1 or +1), but ultimately hovering around 0 I would say a majority of the time.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 1, 2018)

ionian said:


> In all your examples, first one is fine. But the second two (decca and hall) have phase issues. You can hear it instantly. Third one (Hall) is worse than the second (decca) though. It's the same for all four instruments.
> 
> With both decca and hall the minute it plays, you can hear how ultra wide it sounds and the middle sounds like it's sucked away, or a void (at least that's how I always hear phase issues).
> 
> ...


Interesting read! Would love to hear a response from George @Strezov


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## Vik (Dec 1, 2018)

I'm posting the following link for two reasons - not to convince anyone that Afflatus is better/worse than others or has more/less phase issues than others!  I mainly made this for those who have asked how Afflatus is dealing with fast runs, but also for those who'd like some comparisons with Berlin Strings. Then I thought - why not add some more libraries as well. So here's the same material, only with tiny modifications to adapt to each of the libraries. I may upload a more 'fair' version of this later.
I'll of course tell you soon what you are listening to.


ETA: I know that some of these libraries have special samples dedicated to handle fast runs, so in a way this isn't a really fair comparison; see it more as a report about how this stuff sounds right now.
Also, since I'm not good at recognising phase issues, it would be interesting to have comments about that as well. Thanks.


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## Mike Fox (Dec 1, 2018)

madfloyd said:


> I'm hearing stereo imaging issues with Afflatus in these examples. For example the first clip at 28 seconds pings back and forth between the left and right channels. Anyone else notice this?


This doesn't sound like phasing to me, especially when comparing it to some of the percussion from Albion One (Daniel James points it out in his walkthrough video, and it's totally apparent).

What you you're pointing out sounds more like studio/hall reflection than phasing, imho. Though I could be wrong.

Regardless, I had to put on headphones to even hear it, so it's not really a concern of mine.

With that said, I do wonder if people are more sensitive to phasing than others, regardless of any kind of engineering experience or training. Much like how people are more sensitive to the rainbow effect from dlp projectors than others.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Dec 1, 2018)

ionian said:


> In all your examples, first one is fine. But the second two (decca and hall) have phase issues. You can hear it instantly. Third one (Hall) is worse than the second (decca) though. It's the same for all four instruments.
> 
> With both decca and hall the minute it plays, you can hear how ultra wide it sounds and the middle sounds like it's sucked away, or a void (at least that's how I always hear phase issues).
> 
> ...


I'm interested to see if this is present in Chamber Strings. If you'd like I can post the same examples but with that library. I'll have to download the core mics because I've only been using the Jake Jackson mixes. If this problem is specific to Afflatus then I suppose George needs to be brought up to speed and we should probably get a few more professional opinions on the sound from dedicated recording engineers. I think Mike from @Soundiron Team would be a good start considering his background in recording foley and sound design.


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## NoamL (Dec 1, 2018)

Vik said:


> I'm posting the following link for two reasons - not to convince anyone that Afflatus is better/worse than others or has more/less phase issues than others!  I mainly made this for those who have asked how Afflatus is dealing with fast runs, but also for those who'd like some comparisons with Berlin Strings. Then I thought - why not add some more libraries as well. So here's the same material, only with tiny modifications to adapt to each of the libraries. I may upload a more 'fair' version of this later.
> I'll of course tell you soon what you are listening to.
> 
> 
> ...




Yikes!

This is extremely fast for strings to play. You're getting a keyboardy effect from all these libraries because in real life there would be a great deal of intonation blur. A scalar passage this fast is not something I'd expect ANY current sample library to do well. It's just one of those 1% cases where it's not worth sampling something that's so far outside what 99% of string writing calls for.

Why not try this real life excerpt. If Afflatus can handle this well, then it will be able to do idiomatic fast writing for strings.


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## Vik (Dec 1, 2018)

The intention was to try something which I knew some of the libraries could handle. And of course in real life there will be blur, and that's what the library should offer as well. I know for sure that at least one of them does, and from my little test, it seems as if 2-3 adds blur to emulate what happens in real playing. 
But I agree that it's very, very fast.  I made some other tests as well, which aren't that fast.


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## The Darris (Dec 1, 2018)

prodigalson said:


> Sure, I guess Im thinking in terms of a symphonic section size...
> 
> but I took a listen to other libraries I have that have recorded half their sections and don't notice as much of a difference in the spatial positioning between them. Thinner sound yes...dramatic shifts in the stereo field? not so much. Checked out one ambient library and one drier.
> 
> ...


Sorry it's taken me a minute to get back to you. Loegria isn't a good one to use since it's a mix of Violins and Violas in that ensemble. Naturally, the stereo image with be more full since the Violas sit in the middle/right. As for Studio Strings, I totally here a shift to the left with the divisi section compared to the full section. It's not as abrupt as Afflatus and the main reason is probably the room. Despite both the Sofia scoring stage and Air Studio 1 being on the more dry side, they are both different shapes/sizes. I believe Studio 1 is a lot smaller than Sofia which would mean that you can get more left/right reflections off the walls while a larger room would suffer a bit more, especially with a smaller section size and it's inability to move the air in a large space. 

Comparing to Lyndhurst Hall is not really fair. That room, even though small sections can sound very intimate, allows for small sections to sound huge. I've worked on a few scores that have been recorded there and we were using a small section, similar to Chamber Strings and Loegria, and those players were able to make it sound like a 60 piece orchestra (without overdubbing). It's all in how the players perform the samples. Strezov, based on what I've heard in these samples, recorded this in a way that you can really hear the difference in sizes. The drawback, as you've pointed out, is that in some patches, you get a noticeable change in the stereo field but for me, it's not that big of a deal. YMMV. 

Cheers,

Chris


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## sostenuto (Dec 1, 2018)

All the above ….. astute, capable, educational, relevant.
Yet for attentive, serious, non-string-trained musician ….. how to possibly choose Afflatus vs Berlin Strings + Expansion A for distinctly less ($~690) current BF pricing ???
Some capable Users surely want and need salient content in Afflatus, but for broad, general Strings usage, Afflatus seems a tough gamble. 

Posting because purchase is few hours away due to promo endings.


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## madfloyd (Dec 1, 2018)

Seems to me (from what I've read so far) that the non-string trained musician would be better off with Afflatus - it doesn't take as much tweaking etc.


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## sostenuto (Dec 1, 2018)

madfloyd said:


> Seems to me (from what I've read so far) that the non-string trained musician would be better off with Afflatus - it doesn't take as much tweaking etc.



 Noted this point earlier and is surely a factor. Tough with these large Libraries, and typically no Trials /Demos. 
Red Room Audio_Palette and Steinberg_Iconica demonstrate this is an alternative.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Dec 1, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Noted this point earlier and is surely a factor. Tough with these large Libraries, and typically no Trials /Demos.
> Red Room Audio_Palette and Steinberg_Iconica demonstrate this is an alternative.


That's why a lot of customers like myself are always interested in a la cart versions of a library. It's unfortunate Native Instruments makes it difficult or simply unfeasible for developers to offer this with Kontakt Player libraries due to the price of serial numbers.


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## vegetadbz (Apr 23, 2019)

You can not compare Berlin Strings to Afflatus.
I am investigating Afflatus (I don't own it), and each day I see no reason to have it.

*Based on watching and listening it*:

First off all, Afflatus tried to have different types of legatos, pause, and shorts and pizzicato, and nothing else, and still, read, "failed".
Failed on violins 1 and 2.

1. When I am checking library, I always check how high tones on violins 1 and 2 sound, if they hurt ears, if they have clip sound on start, bad release, weird tail, lag....that is a bad library.
2. I judge library is it near to Hollywood / Movie sound or not.

Afflatus on lush strings has humming sound next to high violins as loud as violin (is this bow sounding? - no idea, but sounds bad).
Afflatus on lush strings hurts ears, even with eqing and treble a lot.
Chamber violins, while they sound cool, sound effects is more loud (is it bow again?) than violins itself.
Scene De Amor, hurt ears, to harsh on each note start.
Minimalist Violins, same thing like Chamber violins.

Obviously they failed to isolate bow sound, or hushing sound of room, chamber, studio they recorded it, or deliberately did it.
Maybe this is meant to be a Russian way of strings, I don't know, but for me it is weird, I am used to nice sound for violins not screaming ones, and any library is better than this one for me.

Listen to walkthrough videos sound of instruments, not a paid narrator who praise them in videos.
 - Listen to sound which is very loud but is not sound of violin (a bow or whatever is heard, like a wind next to violins)

And to compare it to...




Next...
Afflatus shorts lag, Jaeger beats it.
Afflatus pizzicato, do not know.

I don't think Afflatus will work in any way for Hollywood and Trailer types of Music, and all what I write is based on that.

"I have feeling some people want to make Berlin Strings look bad, and even changing the sound of Berlin and creating audio examples just to prove Berlin is bad."
Ehh, funny peeps.


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## artomatic (Apr 23, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> You can not compare Berlin Strings to Afflatus.
> I am investigating Afflatus (I don't own it), and each day I see no reason to have it.
> 
> *Based on watching and listening it*:
> ...





I guess that's a no on Afflatus Strings for you!
You say potato, I say potahto.
That's what makes the world go round!
Personally, I love this library. My fav is the Scene de Amor patch.


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## Leon Portelance (Apr 23, 2019)

I can’t afford either :( but I do okay with LA Scoring Strings, Hollywood Strings and CSS.


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## sostenuto (Apr 23, 2019)

Leon Portelance said:


> I can’t afford either :( but I do okay with LA Scoring Strings, Hollywood Strings and CSS.



Seems like a capable set of Strings tools. Would you care to state which two of these you would retain if you had to work without one ? Serious question here moving forward.


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## Leon Portelance (Apr 23, 2019)

Probably LASS and CSS.


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## sostenuto (Apr 23, 2019)

Thank-you for sharing.  Waiting for next CSS BF event, but LASS 3 hopefully coming now that MSB is released. LASS 2.5 Full, at current price, is doable now.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Apr 23, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> You can not compare Berlin Strings to Afflatus.
> I am investigating Afflatus (I don't own it), and each day I see no reason to have it.
> 
> *Based on watching and listening it*:
> ...




By "paid narrator" do you mean me? Because I didn't get a cent for either that video or almost all of the music I've ever made. To say I'm broke would be an understatement...


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## mobileavatar (Apr 23, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> I don't think Afflatus will work in any way for Hollywood and Trailer types of Music, and all what I write is based on that.
> 
> "I have feeling some people want to make Berlin Strings look bad, and even changing the sound of Berlin and creating audio examples just to prove Berlin is bad."
> Ehh, funny peeps.



It's no surprise to hear that... I have their children's choir Arva that exhibit similar noise problem. It's ok for sketching, but I almost cannot even produce a proper demo with all the hisses. They even didn't proper looping on some of their patches. The support person admitted but never got a fix. They claimed no one else complaint that's the reason they had not looked into it, but is that the way they handled a product which is intended for professional use????


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 23, 2019)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> By "paid narrator" do you mean me? Because I didn't get a cent for either that video or almost all of the music I've ever made. To say I'm broke would be an understatement...


Cory don't listen to him lol. 

And I feel you - all we do is buy libraries to keep moving the genre forward for those who actually have talent XD. It's the internet and everyone is a skeptic I guess.


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## vegetadbz (Apr 24, 2019)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> By "paid narrator" do you mean me? Because I didn't get a cent for either that video or almost all of the music I've ever made. To say I'm broke would be an understatement...


No, I did not meant on you.
I meant it globaly for any library.

And I did not said library is bad, but library is bad for Hollywood sound, there is a difference.
Can not see it in any movie except western movies from 1960s, they kinda had this hissing.
Maybe in classical music, but movie, nope.

Guy asked for opinnions and you can't issolate all the people that favour Berlin over this.

You got library for free and you are not eligible reviewer.

Comparing Berlin to Afflatus is comedy.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Apr 24, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> No, I did not meant on you.
> I meant it globaly for any library.
> 
> And I did not said library is bad, but library is bad for Hollywood sound, there is a difference.
> ...



I'm sorry if this sounds offensive, but what sounds like "comedy" to me is narrowing the "Hollywood sound" to one thing. Afflatus maybe doesn't sound modern, so to speak, but I personally find its tone close to the one from the golden age of Hollywood.


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## jon wayne (Apr 24, 2019)

I am looking to buy some peanut butter, but just don't know which is best. I really need someone on this forum to tell me what they like! Jiff or Skippy?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 24, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> No, I did not meant on you.
> I meant it globaly for any library.
> 
> And I did not said library is bad, but library is bad for Hollywood sound, there is a difference.
> ...


Why not share some audio examples of your own, show us all how it's done?


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## Cory Pelizzari (Apr 24, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> No, I did not meant on you.
> I meant it globaly for any library.
> 
> And I did not said library is bad, but library is bad for Hollywood sound, there is a difference.
> ...


You said not me so no probs but then you threw in the "not eligible reviewer part" which made me laugh. You don't have the library so I could say you don't have an eligible opinion, but that's not true. Your opinion still matters so more power to you.

You're right though, the library isn't for trailer scoring, but neither is Berlin Strings so it's all moot at this point. Personally for trailer type stuff I prefer things like Trailer Strings layered with synths.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Apr 24, 2019)

jon wayne said:


> I am looking to buy some peanut butter, but just don't know which is best. I really need someone on this forum to tell me what they like! Jiff or Skippy?


I haven't tried either but I think they both taste bad.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Apr 24, 2019)

whitewasteland said:


> I'm sorry if this sounds offensive, but what sounds like "comedy" to me is narrowing the "Hollywood sound" to one thing. Afflatus maybe doesn't sound modern, so to speak, but I personally find its tone close to the one from the golden age of Hollywood.


Yeah that's what Strezov was aiming for. It's a bit opulent sounding which is not to everyone's taste, but it stands out in the market.


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## Strezov (Apr 24, 2019)

The best thing for all of us is that there are a lot of tools that we can use to make music... there's something for everyone. I'm loving my berlin strings, as well as metropolis ark, CSS, tundra and a bunch of other gems I'm using on a daily basis. Speaking of that - make music, not war /on forums/


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Apr 24, 2019)

Cory Pelizzari said:


> Yeah that's what Strezov was aiming for. It's a bit opulent sounding which is not to everyone's taste, but it stands out in the market.



Not sure if my previous comment sounded like a critic to Afflatus, but it wasn't at all ! I love the tone of this library - which you showed very well in your review.


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## vegetadbz (Apr 24, 2019)

jon wayne said:


> I am looking to buy some peanut butter, but just don't know which is best. I really need someone on this forum to tell me what they like! Jiff or Skippy?


Best is the one you got free, but you have to talk its best to get next portion for free.


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## vegetadbz (Apr 24, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Why not share some audio examples of your own, show us all how it's done?


I do not need to own libraries to know that comparing library with so many articulations and sounds with legato, spiccato and pizzicato patches is comedy.


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## Vik (Apr 24, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> Best is the one you got free, but you have to talk its best to get next portion for free



I know this was to Cory Pelizzary, but nevertheless: I don't think software reviewers for magazines etc ever were asked to cash out for the software they write about. Afflatus Strings is €799.00, Berlin Strings is € 840 (without the expansion kits).

My own review of Afflatus should have been presented a long time ago, but I postponed it because I heard that an update was coming, and I assumed that the release was coming shortly after it was announced. All I've posted so far is this:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/my-review-of-strezov-afflatus-strings.77871/
I bought Berlin Strings some years ago, and have received review a review copy of Afflatus late 2018, but there's no way I'd change my review into something which doesn't reflect my opinion about Afflatus just because software reviews usually get NFR-versions/review copies.

Here's how I see it is: if you produce paid reviews and have to pay eg €800 for that piece of software, whatever you pay for it won't be you real payment, because you already have paid €800 to review it. If you write unpaid reviews (like people sometimes do eg on this site), the payment for your work is only that you get access to a hopefully great library without paying for it with other than your time.

It would be unfair to expect that those who write paid reviews should have to buy the software and pay from their own pocket. And for those who write unpaid reviews, it would IMO be even more unreasonable to except them to use all the time that's needed to both learn and use the software, and then deliver a fair review... and have to pay for all that. So I disagree in this statement:


vegetadbz said:


> You got library for free and you are not eligible reviewer.


I don't even know if he got it for free.

(Btw, as soon as the Afflatus update is out, I'll start finishing my review, and also mention something about the differences between Afflatus and Berlin Strings - there are many.)


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## Land of Missing Parts (Apr 24, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> I do not need to own libraries to know that comparing library with so many articulations and sounds with legato, spiccato and pizzicato patches is comedy.


Why not share a tune you've made where you demonstrate how you get the Hollywood sound you're talking about? I'm always up for learning something new.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Apr 24, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Why not share a tune you've made where you demonstrate how you get the Hollywood sound you're talking about? I'm always up for learning something new.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Apr 24, 2019)

whitewasteland said:


>


He altered the deal. Pray he doesn't alter it again.


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## Cory Pelizzari (Apr 24, 2019)

Vik said:


> I don't even know if he got it for free.



To clarify - I was asked if I'd like to make a video for Afflatus based on the videos I'd made about other Strezov products in the past, so I accepted and got an NFR. 

... Honestly, the first thing I did after playing the library was send Strezov an email about how I thought the price was too ambitious and that it would infuriate a lot of potential buyers...

And here we are. (C, G-F#-G-G#, G... B, C)


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## vegetadbz (Apr 25, 2019)

Again some people getting me wrong.
I never said Strezov library is bad (I did mentioned some weakness, and for what it is bad, or what is bad inside library), library itself has many good things.

But this is thread Berlin vs Afflatus, not just about Afflatus.

I am even interested to buy this library, but I want to know more about what other libraries can be used along this one, I made thread asking that.
Afflatus is good for magical, emotional or fantasy tracks, first of all, has some great pads for this, experimental things, and all what is already mentioned.


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## SoNowWhat? (Apr 26, 2019)

I’d just like to say that @Cory Pelizzari and @Guy Rowland are two people that have done reviews I find extremely useful. They do review NFR libraries but are open about that when they do. They are critical when it’s justified and praise when that is justified.

There are of course many others but those are two I could think of straight up that have used NFRs for walk throughs and have been upfront about it and extremely helpful to me by pointing out strengths and weaknesses.

On the Berlin vs Afflatus (I have Afflatus but not Berlin), I don’t think they are meant to be the same apart from both being Strings. Strezov were clear about that from the start. I think of it as not for bread and butter strings work but more about those special touches that might require a lot of work or be impossible to achieve with another library. I’m not sure I have the midi and mixing chops to achieve the sort of results Afflatus delivers with the other string libraries and plugs I have (I have CSS and SCS which are great and others). Finally FWIW I really love the tone. I don’t write Hollywood trailer music so make of that what you will.

Afflatus can be beautiful but no doubt also expensive. Berlin series have been right up there and justifiably so for a long while. I don’t see that changing in the near future.


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## Mike Fox (Apr 27, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> You can not compare Berlin Strings to Afflatus.
> I am investigating Afflatus (I don't own it), and each day I see no reason to have it.
> 
> *Based on watching and listening it*:
> ...



You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, for sure. No one can knock you for that! I will say a few things though...

- Judging a library you haven't played can be a tricky thing. I've purchased libraries based off walkthroughs, demos, etc., only to be let down after I bought them. Unfortunately, that's really all we have to go off of, so if your ears are telling you that Afflatus is not for you, then that's totally cool. Save yourself some money!

- I own Trailer Strings, Adventures Strings, CSS, CS2, Hollywood Strings, LASS, EWSO, the Arks, the Albions, and Afflatus. Out of all of those, Afflatus is my go-to string library. I would take Afflatus over those libraries without thinking twice about it. For a classic Hollywood sound, or a modern Hollywood sound, Afflatus is the one I reach for.

- I liked Afflatus so much that I actually made an in depth youtube review of it (even pointing out its flaws). This review took me a ton of time to make. I didn't get paid to do it. I didn't receive anything for it. That didn't matter though, because I loved the library so much that I wanted to share the same enthusiasm, and excitement that I felt the first time I played Afflatus. It's like when you hear really good news, all you want to do is share it with others!

Lastly, I've got to take some minor issue with your, "Afflatus shorts lag, Jaeger beats it" comment. The Psychatto strings in Afflatus are some of the tightest, and most aggressive sounding strings to ever be sampled. They ooze with with character, and possess a tone that says, "Don't fu$! with me!". I can guarantee that you won't find a more raw and intense spiccato sample!


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## The Darris (Apr 27, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> No, I did not meant on you.
> I meant it globaly for any library.
> 
> And I did not said library is bad, but library is bad for Hollywood sound, there is a difference.
> ...


Well darn, I guess I've been doing this wrong this whole time. Let me contact the production I'm working on and let them know that the cues they approved need to be redone with a different sample library because the one I used is bad for hollywood sound.


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## vegetadbz (Apr 27, 2019)

The Darris said:


> Well darn, I guess I've been doing this wrong this whole time. Let me contact the production I'm working on and let them know that the cues they approved need to be redone with a different sample library because the one I used is bad for hollywood sound.


Nonsense trolling comment.


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## The Darris (Apr 27, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> Nonsense trolling comment.


Haha. Sure. One could argue you're the troll. Let's review the evidence. 

1) You don't own Afflatus.
2) You've written exhaustive posts above explaining how Afflatus can't possibly do the Hollywood Sound yet without owning it to try it out. 
3) You base all your assumptions off the demos which hardly demonstrate every single type of genre possible. 
3) When someone challenges the assertions you've made, you shove it off as if they are trolling. 

Here's the facts about Afflatus. It's a sample library designed to express different styles of emotion that aren't found in other libraries. Therefore it can be viewed as a niche tool. It's not designed to be the basic palette of strings samples to do 80-90% of basic scoring work. It's meant to fill the void and do the work others can't. By that standard, it's very good at what it does. 

Can it do "Hollywood?" Yes. I'm using it on a feature right now. The style of music is very much in the vain of John Powell, Williams, (ie; Big Hollywood sound). Among the list of libraries I'm using, Afflatus is among them. The production likes the sound. It's most certainly capable of doing "Hollywood." 

I think, at the end of the day, you should step back and realize that any library can fit into any style. What matters is how the composer uses them to successfully sequence their music. Also, it's best not to harshly criticize what you yourself have not been able to test out first hand. Making bold claims about what something can and cannot do effectively without attempting to do it yourself is simply a series of statements made in ignorance.


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## vegetadbz (Apr 27, 2019)

1) I don't own "Hans Zimmer & Lisa Gerrard - Now we are free", so I should first buy it, because without buying it my ears are banned to hear its a masterpiece.

2) I wrote: "I don't _think _Afflatus will work in any way for Hollywood and Trailer types of Music"
(Not the sound I used to hear in movies.)

3) You're repeating first statement just to count more numbers.

4) After 3 comes 4, which repeats 3, and fact you stated in 1.

_Here's the facts about Afflatus. It's a sample library designed to express different styles of emotion that aren't found in other libraries. Therefore it can be viewed as a niche tool. It's not designed to be the basic palette of strings samples to do 80-90% of basic scoring work. It's meant to fill the void and do the work others can't. By that standard, it's very good at what it does._

And tell me now about Berlin, is it complete library?
Is there a library that is more complete than Berlin Strings?


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## The Darris (Apr 27, 2019)

vegetadbz said:


> 1) I don't own "Hans Zimmer & Lisa Gerrard - Now we are free", so I should first buy it, because without buying it my ears are banned to hear its a masterpiece.
> 
> 2) I wrote: "I don't _think _Afflatus will work in any way for Hollywood and Trailer types of Music"
> (Not the sound I used to hear in movies.)
> ...



First off, don't gas light me. What you actually said and I quoted in my original comment is this..
_"And I did not said library is bad, but library is bad for Hollywood sound, there is a difference. Can not see it in any movie except western movies from 1960s, they kinda had this hissing. Maybe in classical music, but movie, nope."
_
Secondly, I'm not saying you can totally compare it to Berlin Strings, that was never the assertion I attempted to make or responded to. I don't own Berlin Strings so I can't possibly comment on it in that way. I certainly wouldn't make claims such as yours about any library without first testing it out myself, or at least hearing it used in those contexts. I also didn't make any claims to suggest that Berlin Strings isn't complete or whatever you are trying to imply with your last couple of questions above. 

If your opinion is based off of the demos and tutorials, that's fine. But, again, my point was about your outrageous claim. I'm simply flat out telling you that is wrong. Myself, among other professionals are currently using it in Hollywood movies to write Hollywood scores, many of whom live in or near Hollywood. So, to claim it's bad for Hollywood, despite the fact that it's not, is just ignorant on your part. Instead of simply saying, "oh you're right. I was wrong in my wording." You're doubling down. You're doubling down so much now that you are bring up stuff with me that I didn't even talking about such as Berlin Strings. 

Lastly, congratulations on catching my typos and using those to somehow discredit my response to you. Very professional, un-troll like, and (hilariously enough) ironic in every aspect of your response. You've won the internet. You are the Hero VI-C needed today. 

Cheers,

Chris


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## Thorsten Meyer (Apr 27, 2019)

Chris, I find it amazing that vegetadbz always find people who argue with her/him about the passive aggressive comments this individual makes )



The Darris said:


> First off, don't gas light me. What you actually said and I quoted in my original comment is this..
> _"And I did not said library is bad, but library is bad for Hollywood sound, there is a difference. Can not see it in any movie except western movies from 1960s, they kinda had this hissing. Maybe in classical music, but movie, nope."
> _
> Secondly, I'm not saying you can totally compare it to Berlin Strings, that was never the assertion I attempted to make or responded to. I don't own Berlin Strings so I can't possibly comment on it in that way. I certainly wouldn't make claims such as yours about any library without first testing it out myself, or at least hearing it used in those contexts. I also didn't make any claims to suggest that Berlin Strings isn't complete or whatever you are trying to imply with your last couple of questions above.
> ...


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 27, 2019)

for someone who has the username of an excited 11 year old - chill out. Darris gets paid - you don't.

You are extremely new to music in general, have very little experience with libraries or composing. Picking a fight over 2 sample libraries you don't even own with a guy who is literally a professional is not going to help your growth, and your attitude will close WAY more doors than it will open. I know from personal experience. Plenty of people that are professionals here have used really old and bad sample libraries and still made it - while many new buy the latest and greatest and can't make anything. If you pipe down a little you might actually catch some helpful tips rather than find yourself arguing with no one.


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Apr 28, 2019)

Reminds me of a funny quote about playing chess with a pigeon.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 28, 2019)

So, okay, I am throwing in some opinions from a guy like me who has both libraries (berlin with expansions) and Afflatus and _paid for both_ also. And I like both of them each because of their own sound and strenghts. 

Now, for me Afflatus and Berlin are very different beasts. Berlin is offering more depth in some aspects which has not only to do that they recorded more articulations but also that they have their capsule system and that you can tweak the patches quite a lot regarding attacks, release, rr borrowing and with their quite comprehensive scripting tools which lets you combine things (e.g. sustain morphing to trems morphing to trills) and other combinations as well). I started a while ago with a close friend programming custom performance patches with berlin in order to surpass the developers limited use of standard patches to mockup things like the Romeo and Juliet overture of tschaikowsky and other things. That worked really well. 

Afflatus shines with their D´ámore legato and divisi options which I find pretty cool too and the drier room gives a more direct and intimate soujnd. Now I use berlin a lot longer (for around 4 years on a constant base) and therefore I get more out of them because I simply know the library a lot better than Afflatus. I think where Berlin shines is the flexibility with their many articulations that let you create and cover a shitload of "live situations"

When it comes to expressivo molto vibrato berlin is imo the king library on the market, some don´t like their overly expressive vibrato, but I simply love it because it gives me for my style of music I write that strong soaring character which imo is not covered in that fashion by any other library I know so far. Also that they recorded the library pretty neutral is great to give you a lot of options to dial in your own sound imo. Using in addition other custom scripting like detuning can get you at times pretty close to a real string performance. 

Berlins Sound is for me very symphonic and can sound also very big and lush. Afflatus is for me more the other way around and can sound therefore more intimate, near and detailed (thinking of their divisi and drier sound). 

In a nutshell I would say Berin Strings is for me in the end a more complete library regarding capabilities and articulations. So when I would start out seeking for a very comprehensive library I would definitely buy Berlin right away. 

Now there are these expansions from Berlin which gives you even more sound options like the sul tasto legato and sul ponticello and the super soft dynamics (also in the main library) which lets you create with a scripted legato and custom settings really flowing textures in pp dynamics which is really something I can´t get with other libraries. the timbre dynamic range is therefore quite remarkable. 

Even the feared double stops are possible in a presentable way when you use combinations of repetition patches combined with loose and normal spicc / Stac) which was a huge challgenge. 

However here is short snippet of the overture and I chose always those repertoire works to see how far I can get with a library tackling those very difficult arrangements..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzdpduq8w...ikowsky_Romeo_Juliet (true dynamics).mp3?dl=0

But I love Afflatus too as I said for its own strenghts and sounds and when I have spent more time with it (lets say a couple of years) I might give more feedback on it as well.


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 28, 2019)

holy shit, how do I meet this "friend"

>.> 

in-before aaron gets abducted by OT


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 28, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> holy shit, how do I meet this "friend"
> 
> >.>
> 
> in-before aaron gets abducted by OT



I don´t quite understand that comment. What do you want to imply here?


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 28, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> I don´t quite understand that comment. What do you want to imply here?



How does one get ahold of those custom patches? I just took a wild guess that your friend who made them was aaron venture - since he's a wizard of sorts.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 28, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> How does one get ahold of those custom patches? I just took a wild guess that your friend who made them was aaron venture - since he's a wizard of sorts.



You can´t obtain them simply because they are not commercial and just intended for private use. And no Aaron has nothing to do with them. Aaron is my friend, yes and he is a great guy and knows a lot about scripting for kontakt. But your wild guess is indeed totally of, maybe ..can you probably imagine that I created them still (like I was referring to my initial post saying that I work with a mate together on those things)? If not, I am afraid to tell you, that this can happen when you work like me for years with a sampled orchestra mocking up so many things..If you don´t feel to put any capacity in that regards connected with my person, then hopefully that clears that a bit out. And last but not least: These performance patches won´t create that sound per se, its a lot of more things which are going on which is a way beyond of that patch thing alone.


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 28, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> You can´t obtain them simply because they are not commercial and just intended for private use. And no Aaron has nothing to do with them. Aaron is my friend, yes and he is a great guy and knows a lot about scripting for kontakt. But your wild guess is indeed totally of, maybe ..can you probably imagine that I created them still? If not, I am afraid to tell you, that this can happen when you work like me for years with a sampled orchestra mocking up so many things..If you don´t feel to put any capacity in that regards connected with my person, then hopefully that clears that a bit out. And last but not least: These performance patches won´t create that sound per se, its a lot of more things which are going on which is a way beyond of that patch thing alone.



Seems like a very well scripted run patch


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## Mike Fox (Apr 28, 2019)

I do want to point out that Afflatus is a living library, and that updates and new content are in the forseeable future. George has also been great with staying in touch with customers, and trying to implement our ideas and wants into the library. It almost feels like I bought a product from a friend, rather than a commercial entity. It's hard to put a price on something like that in this day and age when new libraries are constantly being pushed out and then forgotten about by developers.


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## midiman (Apr 28, 2019)

For all its worth, @Cory Pelizzari and @The Darris are two of my favorite sample library reviewers. It was after listening to their reviews of Afflatus that I changed my mind about Afflatus and bought Afflatus. And boy, it was the best single purchase of 2018. It is one of my all-time favorite libraries - not just favorite string library, but a favorite music tool. It is a creative tool, that is truly inspiring.
I must admit I was at first taken by the price of Afflatus when it was announced, but after buying it and playing with it my thoughts were reversed and I thought it was worth every penny and actually more.

The library IMO really captures "The Hollywood Sound", both past and modern. It is just so musical and inspiring to work with. Not only the concepts behind the library are brilliant, but the results of what was recorded and then programmed into kontakt patches are mind blowing for me. The polyphonic legato is a landmark in string sampling, and such a joy to work with. They really really nailed the polyphonic legato. How I wish other companies featured Strezov's Polyphonic legato...

The Minimalist patch can do the coveted modern "Thomas Newman String Sound" like no other library on the market IMO. The legato of the Minimalist Patch has brought many smiles to my face. And with very little programming these strings sound amazing.

Afflatus is usually the first library I go to when working on a cue, so even though technically it might not be a bread and butter library, it has functioned often like a bread and butter library for me, as I get so many cues done with it as the base and glue of the whole cue.
I would strongly recommend the critics and trolls of the library to actually try it because I believe they would feel very differently about it once they did.

I don't think I have yet heard anybody who owns the library talk crap about it. 

The moment Strezov announces Afflatus Strings Vol.2 (which I hope and believe they will) I will be running to hit the buy button on the intro pricing.


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