# Waves has a new A&R subscription service (also for film and tv) - your thoughts



## MusiquedeReve (Nov 14, 2021)

Submit music to exclusive A&Rs | AVENUEAR


AVENUEAR is the premiere platform for connecting independent artists to exclusive A&Rs. Our integrated platform allows artists to submit music for free.




www.avenuear.com





Apparently they act as a "bridge" to A&R execs so you can get your music heard - however, I do not see anywhere that they guarantee your music will be heard by any executives

Additionally, they state they are going to soon be launching a version for film and television submissions here: https://www.avenuear.com/tvandfilm


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## SupremeFist (Nov 14, 2021)

Pay a subscription and then pay to submit each time?!


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## DESmith (Nov 14, 2021)

This is such garbage.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 15, 2021)

Looks like an updated version of TAXI. I always cringe when I see a company charging a fee to submit music to "executives".


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## SupremeFist (Nov 15, 2021)

Minimum $20 per submission as per the Waves email today, but they do guarantee that someone will listen to 30 seconds of your song!


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## MusiquedeReve (Nov 15, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Minimum $20 per submission as per the Waves email today, but they do guarantee that someone will listen to 30 seconds of your song!


$2,400/hour -- nice work if you can get it


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## Daryl (Nov 15, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Minimum $20 per submission as per the Waves email today, but they do guarantee that someone will listen to 30 seconds of your song!


But who, and why would they prioritise their time with this nonsense?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 15, 2021)

Daryl said:


> But who, and why would they prioritise their time with this nonsense?


I'd probably pay $20 if I knew I'd get an actual personal email from say, Quincy Jones. Even if he said my track sucked, I'd still pay the $20!


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 15, 2021)

My gut reaction to this is that Waves have got the morals of an alley cat. 

They sound like those 'photographers' helping young girls get their big break in the modelling business......


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## Daryl (Nov 15, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I'd probably pay $20 if I knew I'd get an actual personal email from say, Quincy Jones. Even if he said my track sucked, I'd still pay the $20!


Yes, but nobody knows that, apart from the people taking your money. It seems like a scam to me.


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## Daryl (Nov 15, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> My gut reaction to this is that Waves have got the morals of an alley cat.
> 
> They sound like those 'photographers' helping young girls get their big break in the modelling business......


Exactly what I thought.


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## givemenoughrope (Nov 15, 2021)

Didn't Waves rent studio time to try to catch interns with cracked plugins years ago? Weird company


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## Henu (Nov 15, 2021)

That sounded so freaking unbelievable that I actually had to google more. For my suprise, it seems that this actually _did happen in 2007_!

_"The operation began earlier this year as teams of investigators posing as potential clients visited facilities in the UK and US to gather evidence, secretly filming studio owners and engineers demonstrating or discussing _cracked_ copies of Waves plug-ins."_


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 15, 2021)

Daryl said:


> Yes, but nobody knows that, apart from the people taking your money. It seems like a scam to me.


I agree. Joking aside, it is absurd, and will inevitably prey on the nieve. The WUP program is a scam in itself, but this is pretty low.


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## AVENUEAR (Nov 21, 2021)

Hello to you all, this is AVENUEAR. I hope you all are staying healthy and well during this time. It saddens me to hear such negativity about a platform that none of you have even taken the time to try. You all went right in on your opinions, and making accusations about AVENUEAR and that is so far from the truth. OUR users believe otherwise. We don’t need to defend ourselves however, I feel the need to open all of your eyes. I see that Jeremy is a writer & producer of a heavy metal band and you others don’t post your real names so not sure if you all are even musicians. Waves happens to be a very transparent company and has every right to find people that are infringing on their IP in my opinion. If you are real music people, that actually have a hit under your belt, you would not be happy if people were illegally using your material without your permission. AVENUEAR is far from a scam! We are contractual with some of the most influential music executives in the world. We do guarantee 100% that your minimum of a $20 submission is delivered to our executives on the platform, and can let you know the exact date they will receive it prior to you submitting. We are here to open the door so people like yourselves can actually have a chance to get straight to the person of choice. Take a look yourself at https://www.sonymusic.com/faq/#ten

You can’t submit directly to the label executives and have never been able to unless you paid an attorney or manager a large sum of money to do so. 

Waves delivered you an email with a free trial code because they care and want to help inspiring users like yourselves. Do you really think that the largest Grammy award winning plug-in company on the planet would not do their due diligence on a company, and make sure that it’s 1000% legit? Not to mention, PayPal and venmo have done their due diligence as well before they open the gates for AVENUEAR. I’m very sorry that you all made such an opinion prior to trying first. As Jeremy mentioned in the thread, 
“I'd probably pay $20 if I knew I'd get an actual personal email from say, Quincy Jones. Even if he said my track sucked, I'd still pay the $20!

This is how all of the millions of users feel. 

Jeremy, I can guarantee you this! Please ask the guy that got the email from waves to give you the code and try it for free. You’re the wise one from the group. 

Blessings to you all, 

AVENUEAR 
www.AVENUEAR.com


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## MusiquedeReve (Nov 21, 2021)

AVENUEAR said:


> I see that Jeremy is a writer & producer of a heavy metal band and you others don’t post your real names so not sure if you all are even musicians.





AVENUEAR said:


> Do you really think that the largest Grammy award winning plug-in company on the planet would not do their due diligence on a company, and make sure that it’s 1000% legit?


WOW - coming in hot!!!

What a way to ingratiate yourself to the members of a forum for musicians and composers -- I am sure we are all going to hop on board now

Since when have the Grammy's given out awards for plugins?


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## AVENUEAR (Nov 21, 2021)

And this is why it is important for people to join. 

You never knew and now you know my brother. 



Redirect Notice


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## AVENUEAR (Nov 21, 2021)




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## Soundbed (Nov 21, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Looks like an updated version of TAXI. I always cringe when I see a company charging a fee to submit music to "executives".


You know, I had a great time with TAXI and learned a lot. I totally support people joining TAXI (eyes wide open, for the service it provides) and highly recommend the annual conference (which is worth the annual price) even if the member never pays another cent to submit any music to the listings.

The conference was virtual this year, which makes it much more difficult to run into publishers and TV music supervisors face to face in the hallways — which is what I did, via TAXI.

That said, TAXI — and indeed AvenueAR — are not for everyone.

At this point I'm probably not the target market for AvenueAR, mostly due to my experiences with TAXI. I paid, I played, I met some great connections and I learned a LOT.


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## RonOrchComp (Nov 21, 2021)

AVENUEAR said:


> Hello to you all, this is AVENUEAR. I hope you all are staying healthy and well during this time. It saddens me to hear such negativity about a platform that none of you have even taken the time to try. You all went right in on your opinions, and making accusations about AVENUEAR and that is so far from the truth. OUR users believe otherwise. We don’t need to defend ourselves however, I feel the need to open all of your eyes. I see that Jeremy is a writer & producer of a heavy metal band and you others don’t post your real names so not sure if you all are even musicians. Waves happens to be a very transparent company and has every right to find people that are infringing on their IP in my opinion. If you are real music people, that actually have a hit under your belt, you would not be happy if people were illegally using your material without your permission. AVENUEAR is far from a scam! We are contractual with some of the most influential music executives in the world. We do guarantee 100% that your minimum of a $20 submission is delivered to our executives on the platform, and can let you know the exact date they will receive it prior to you submitting. We are here to open the door so people like yourselves can actually have a chance to get straight to the person of choice. Take a look yourself at https://www.sonymusic.com/faq/#ten
> 
> You can’t submit directly to the label executives and have never been able to unless you paid an attorney or manager a large sum of money to do so.
> 
> ...


Understandably, some of the responses here have been a bit short on tact.

On the other hand, had you decided to post with a little graciousness and class, that would have went a long way. You know, first impressions and all.


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## MusiquedeReve (Nov 21, 2021)

AVENUEAR said:


> And this is why it is important for people to join.
> 
> You never knew and now you know my brother.
> 
> ...


I don't see the correlation between "winning" a Grammy (_side note: Technical Lifetime Achievement Award - you did not say that in your post -- you said Grammy-winning, which implies Waves was nominated in a category and won that category - Waves did not win a Grammy, it was awarded one_) and why you deem it important to join AVENUEAR

Either way, congrats, but AVENUEAR still cannot guarantee the A&R rep will listen to a submitted track unless there is video of that A&R rep sitting there actively listening to it 

Do these successful A&R reps really need whatever measly cut of the $20 they are getting? They would have to listen to hundreds of songs per week for it to make it worthwhile

All that being said, I am probably not a real musician anyway since I use a profile name rather than my real name on the forum


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 21, 2021)

AVENUEAR said:


> Jeremy, I can guarantee you this! Please ask the guy that got the email from waves to give you the code and try it for free. You’re the wise one from the group.


I really meant no disrespect, despite my past gripes with Waves and TAXI. To be fair, I will give the trial period a shot and then decide for myself. I have a few questions....can I send you a PM?

PS- thanks for posting here, it makes a huge difference when companies actually respond to concerns on the forum.


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## AVENUEAR (Nov 21, 2021)

I don’t feel that I posted in any rude way, and if so, I truly apologize. I hope all of you commenting understand what it feels like to have someone use such hardcore words like “Scam” about a company that has given its life to help people and could care less about money. If we could give the service away we would absolutely do so. That said, it’s literally impossible to do that. The cost of such infrastructure and unique algorithms makes it very challenging. 

Taxi and it’s owner are a great brand. We are very different in how our systems work for undiscovered talent. My intent was not to come here to have you all subscribe, my intentions are to let you know that we are here to help everyone equally with no judgement. We don’t judge and I would appreciate that you not judge us unless you tried us. The fact that you were disappointed in the outcome of TAXI doesn’t really give a right to judge anyone else until given a reason to judge. I am very friendly with all of WAVES management team and can only say that they are the most transparent company and honest. They are the real deal and they care for their users. I will always defend good solid people and companies. I only want what’s best for this world and the people in it. I apologize if I hurt anyone’s feelings and I hope you can forgive me if I did but like I said that was not my intention. 

Blessings


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## AVENUEAR (Nov 21, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> I really meant no disrespect, despite my past gripes with Waves and TAXI. To be fair, I will give the trial period a shot and then decide for myself. I have a few questions....can I send you a PM?
> 
> PS- thanks for posting here, it makes a huge difference when companies actually respond to concerns on the forum.


My direct email is [email protected] and anything I can help you with please let me know. We are not looking to recruit any of you. I saw this on Google and I had to respond. In regards to morphs message, our executives don’t do this for money, they do this because hits are what saves their lives. You all should join our private monthly zoom meetings. These executives are there and share some really great stuff. There is no BS at all. You all now have my direct contact and please don’t hesitate to message me. I always respond.


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 8, 2021)

WOW!!! 

AVENUEAR should be paying money to VIC for this blatant attempt at advertising via forum posts

@Mike Greene


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 8, 2021)

carsys said:


> Submissions are fee-based (as low as $20)


Instead of a fee-based submission, plus the monthly fee, why not just have a monthly flat rate for submissions...especially if they only allegedly listen to thirty seconds? It also mentions submission fees are "as low as $20", what are the higher end submission fees?


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## jneebz (Dec 8, 2021)

Yikes.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 8, 2021)

carsys said:


> There are different fees to speed up the deliverability to the executives. Faster priority costs a little more money. The system works in a queue. By paying extra you are put in front of other musicians to be heard first.


So what are these costs on average? What are the higher end listening fees?


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 9, 2021)

carsys said:


> Pricing of submissions
> $20 is delivered to the executive submissions folder by the 10th day
> $30 is delivered to the executive submissions folder by the 5th day
> $100 is delivered to the executive submissions folder the same day.


What a bizarre pricing model you have. Charge 5 times as much to drop a file into a folder a few days earlier ?

My wife used to do some modelling when she was younger. In the UK it is now illegal for modelling agencies to charge upfront fees before finding work for their clients, but back then agencies used to make a lot of money from people who were convinced they were the next big thing. My wife told me that some of the agency staff used to joke about some of their ‘clients’ who repeatedly spent large amounts of money with no chance of a career in the industry. It was rightly made illegal some time ago. Some agencies existed purely on this way of making money and never ever booked a session for one of their models.

Frankly, I’m failing to see the difference in that practice and your entire business model.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 9, 2021)

carsys said:


> Pricing of submissions
> $20 is delivered to the executive submissions folder by the 10th day
> $30 is delivered to the executive submissions folder by the 5th day
> $100 is delivered to the executive submissions folder the same day.


This is really unethical IMO. Especially for a thirty second "listen". Your FEDEX analogy is flawed, as that is a physical delivery. What your company is doing is simply emailing a file; there's no difference in delivery times. 

Why isn't this info clearly posted on the website? Honest question.


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## David Cuny (Dec 9, 2021)

1. You are offering people a service that gives feedback to songwriters by ranking a song on a scale from 0-5 as to whether a reviewer considers it to be a hit song. No further feedback is offered.

2. This rating is provided by an A&R person, who will listen to the song a minimum of 30 seconds.

3. A&R claim to know if a song is hit record in 15 seconds. No evidence for this claim is presented, while there is plenty of historical evidence providing examples that invalidate this claim.

4. A&R people are _already_ paid by their companies to listen to songs to determine if they are hits. Many companies consider it unethical to charge people to listen to submissions.

5. Paying less means a song will be delayed from being ranked. No technical reason given to justify this delay, but this does provide a means for differentiating pricing.

6. If the song is ranked higher than a 3, it will be automatically placed on the Hit List. All executives and A&Rs in the system can listen to the Hit List, but no claim is made that they will, or that any further action will be taken.

7. The identity of the reviewers is kept private.


From my perspective, this seems considerably less altruistic and beneficial than how it's been presented.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 9, 2021)

AVENUEAR said:


> This is how all of the millions of users feel.


But guys, this service already mysteriously has millions of users. How can they all be wrong?


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 9, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> But guys, this service already mysteriously has millions of users. How can they all be wrong?


Probably from going on forums such as VIC and posting the same thing multiple times in the same thread without paying


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## gsilbers (Dec 9, 2021)

Maybe its proof that musicmaking is turning or has turned in the product on itself and not the service that someone might need. 

Like a video game. 

you pay for the gear and the game and you accomplish some liesure time and fun.


And tech companies take the opportunity to be syphons, like gate keepers of who is the best music maker. 

Theres just so many poeple trying that with some fancy marketing and some truth to it, it will get a hold of enough subscribers to make more than enough to pay not only the marketing, but also more tot he A&R that the record labels used to pay them. 

Everyone seems to be making money out of musicians except musicians. Spotify, apple, google, amazon, low and mid levels players. etc. 

Its just seeing the opportunity and taking advantage.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 9, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> Its just seeing the opportunity and taking advantage.


Precisely. They have nothing to lose.


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## gsilbers (Dec 9, 2021)

oh and i cannot wait for our music to be placed on those $29.99 deals and bundles ala waves. get your song heard by billions and be on the top charts for only $29.99 (normal price $399). but only limited time


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 9, 2021)

gsilbers said:


> oh and i cannot wait for our music to be placed on those $29.99 deals and bundles ala waves. get your song heard by billions and be on the top charts for only $29.99 (normal price $399). but only limited time


I wonder how much the upgrade price will be next year for v2.0?


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## rgames (Dec 9, 2021)

AVENUEAR said:


> This is how all of the millions of users feel.


OK - let's do some math.

Let's say "millions of users" = 5 million users.

Each user has his music listened to by an A&R exec for 30 seconds. That's 150 million seconds of music reviews since those users have joined up.

Let's say AvenueAR started up a month ago (I've never hard of them before today, so they can't have been around for very long). 150 million seconds in one month is about 5 million seconds per day, or about 83,000 hours per day.

Now let's say AvenueAR's roster of A&R execs is 100. That means each exec has spent 833 hours per day listening to the music from those millions of users.

Yeah. That makes sense. 833 hours a day.

rgames


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## gsilbers (Dec 9, 2021)

MorphineNoir said:


> I wonder how much the upgrade price will be next year for v2.0?


Oh right. The WUP.. thats where the big money is


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## thaeo (Dec 9, 2021)

Another sketchy factor is the massive difference in video views and subscriber count on their YouTube channel. 

Two videos posted one day apart. One has 103 views, the other 189K. The 189K video only has 16 likes. Channel has 46 subscribers.


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## pulsedownloader (Dec 9, 2021)

thaeo said:


> Another sketchy factor is the massive difference in video views and subscriber count on their YouTube channel.
> 
> Two videos posted one day apart. One has 103 views, the other 189K. The 189K video only has 16 likes. Channel has 46 subscribers.


189k views could be because it was used for an advert. If you run a Youtube ad, as far as I know, the ad is a "real" youtube video so the views on the ad show up on the Youtube video too


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## SupremeFist (Dec 9, 2021)

They certainly have an original PR strategy: I mean, going to a composers' forum and telling people they aren't sure they are even musicians is not something I would ever have come up with.


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 9, 2021)

thaeo said:


> Another sketchy factor is the massive difference in video views and subscriber count on their YouTube channel.
> 
> Two videos posted one day apart. One has 103 views, the other 189K. The 189K video only has 16 likes. Channel has 46 subscribers.


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 9, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> They certainly have an original PR strategy: I mean, going to a composers' forum and telling people they aren't sure they are even musicians is not something I would ever have come up with.








LOL


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## Braveheart (Dec 9, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> They certainly have an original PR strategy: I mean, going to a composers' forum and telling people they aren't sure they are even musicians is not something I would ever have come up with.


Because of who I am, I can be either a composer or a de-composer.


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## MarcusD (Dec 9, 2021)

rgames said:


> Yeah. That makes sense. 833 hours a day.
> 
> rgames



The headquarters is on Venus, 833 is nothing when you have 2802 hours in a day.


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## Nimrod7 (Dec 9, 2021)

An exec (VP, EVP) salary in the US is $2-5M annual + $2-XM Equity.
I am wondering how someone with such a busy schedule, will listen songs for 25 bucks, or if they are on payroll an hour of their time is around $2k. 
How many of those executives can be on payroll anyhow, and I am not sure on why to go pro bono if they are not on payroll. 

To help musicians? 
We have respected composers in here, spending their time, helping every day.


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## Michael Antrum (Dec 9, 2021)

For anyone think of signing up, I’m currently in West Africa, and tonight I'm having dinner with an army General and a lawyer (This part is actually true - don't ask).

Apparently they knew one of your distant relatives who died in a bizarre accident and desperately needs to know where to deposit the 63 million US dollars he left in his account. (This part may be slightly embellished).


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 9, 2021)

Braveheart said:


> Because of who I am, I can be either a composer or a de-composer.


We are all decomposing


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 9, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> For anyone think of signing up, I’m currently in West Africa, and tonight I'm having dinner with an army General and a lawyer (This part is actually true - don't ask).
> 
> Apparently they knew one of your distant relatives who died in a bizarre accident and desperately needs to know where to deposit the 63 million US dollars he left in his account. (This part may be slightly embellished).


Deposit it directly to Waves


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## edhamilton (Dec 9, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> For anyone think of signing up, I’m currently in West Africa, and tonight I'm having dinner with an army General and a lawyer (This part is actually true - don't ask).
> 
> Apparently they knew one of your distant relatives who died in a bizarre accident and desperately needs to know where to deposit the 63 million US dollars he left in his account. (This part may be slightly embellished).


Love this post.
I was a long time Waves Platinum owner - and got my butt WUP'd bad ages ago.
Not one Wave's plugin on my computer since but I honestly never dreamed they'd stoop lower than WUP.
Yet again, I was wrong.


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 9, 2021)

rgames said:


> OK - let's do some math.
> 
> Let's say "millions of users" = 5 million users.
> 
> ...


Hey @carsys - will you address @rgames post...?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 10, 2021)

carsys said:


> Hello, Musicians of the world.
> 
> Please read the previous post that we tackle the FEDEX analogy and how is perceived by A&Rs the submission delivery.
> Honesty is the best policy. The info indeed is posted on the website I am attaching a file with the screenshot of the location and info. Also if you watch the video mentioned there is a thorough explanation of the terms pricing etc.
> ...


Instead of burying that info in the terms, it should be clearly posted on the pricing page, as should the cost for the online meetings. You want transparency, so be transparent. Frankly, none of us have three hours to spend watching the video.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 10, 2021)

carsys said:


> Our affiliated A&Rs have no such agreement with us and little if any motivation to spend their valuable time on artists who are not demonstrating talent.


Unless they're given between $20-$100 to have a quick listen 

Why not just have a flat rate where a member can upload, say, two songs per month into a "vault" where the A&R reps can hear them? Or maybe have the A&R reps post what they're looking for exactly (if at all). Or have a testimonial page where artists can see how their submissions led to success.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 11, 2021)

carsys said:


> Hello, musicians of the world! Please see at https://www.avenuear.com/pricing/ Where AVENUEAR is contractual with all the A&Rs and guarantees the music to be heard by the A&R that you submit your songs to or your money back!
> 
> See screenshot at the website
> Thank you!
> AvenueAR Tech support


So other than getting a “star rating”, what is the guarantee? Does the exec send a personal email or something with specific feedback? What is it?


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## GtrString (Dec 11, 2021)

20$ to get WUP’ed by Quincy Jones, yeah who wouldn’t want that! 

Welcome to the music business, where everyone has music, but none has any business.


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## SyMTiK (Dec 11, 2021)

I have found it to be easier, cheaper, and more effective to find A&R reps on Tinder, and take them on a nice date before showing them my absolutely ripping tunes, works every time


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## walkaschaos (Dec 12, 2021)

Just when you thought the music business couldn't get any more scummy, debasing or pathetic.


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## MarkusS (Dec 12, 2021)

Me thinks with the music market going down more and more people must be looking desperately for places where to still make money. What better place there is than all the aspiring desperate composers and musicians themselves? Since the market is dead let’s take it directly from the aspiring and hopeful (and numerous) musicians. It’s not a new idea but wow now Waves gets involved?

Seriously? Who guarantees us that you (or anyone else with such an economic model) not just do this to live on the submission fees? With one million subscribers as you say every submission will bring you 20 million? And only one song will be picked? Is there no quality control at all? So in the end you pay deciders to listen to music? No guarantee whatsoever for a return on investment for composers but a 100% safe income for you.

Seriously you have seen people pay 100.000$ to submit a song? Have I read this correctly? That’s just absurd. So what is the fee for this to be worth the submission fee? Most songs bringing in high licence fees are well know songs.

One would think that if our music is good enough to be used at this level one shouldn’t need to pay 20$ for it?

Anyway, young composers remember: never pay to play.




carsys said:


> Some artists pay $50K to $100K just to have a demo song heard by major executives with the hope of striking a record deal.


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## bunjaonkvr (Dec 12, 2021)

AVENUEAR said:


> Hello to you all, this is AVENUEAR. I hope you all are staying healthy and well during this time. It saddens me to hear such negativity about a platform that none of you have even taken the time to try. You all went right in on your opinions, and making accusations about AVENUEAR and that is so far from the truth. OUR users believe otherwise. We don’t need to defend ourselves however, I feel the need to open all of your eyes. I see that Jeremy is a writer & producer of a heavy metal band and you others don’t post your real names so not sure if you all are even musicians. Waves happens to be a very transparent company and has every right to find people that are infringing on their IP in my opinion. If you are real music people, that actually have a hit under your belt, you would not be happy if people were illegally using your material without your permission. AVENUEAR is far from a scam! We are contractual with some of the most influential music executives in the world. We do guarantee 100% that your minimum of a $20 submission is delivered to our executives on the platform, and can let you know the exact date they will receive it prior to you submitting. We are here to open the door so people like yourselves can actually have a chance to get straight to the person of choice. Take a look yourself at https://www.sonymusic.com/faq/#ten
> 
> You can’t submit directly to the label executives and have never been able to unless you paid an attorney or manager a large sum of money to do so.
> 
> ...


tbh I would have tried that in the future , but I have to be honest someone who owns a company should not respond to potential customers like there personally attacking you( which there not they don't know you ) , that is a complete lack of professionalism. you shouldn't have to defend yourself and because you did makes you sound sketchy or a very angry human being , its a new company people are going to be wary and the way you responded is not how you gain trust man , I have sold software from company's that don't have good ways of dealing with me. sure people can be difficult but they buying a service and they don't know you personally its not like there coming in your restaurant and saying the food is shite , if you sell good products have an extremely good customer service and then the right customers will come.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 13, 2021)

carsys said:


> A&Rs from AVENUEAR are constantly searching for the next hit. The big payout for the A&R is to represent the new artist or musician.


Then why charge the musicians to submit music? It makes zero sense. Even "back in the day" I never had top pay to submit both solicited or unsolicited material. 

BTW- That was me that posted about Quincy. Seriously, I'd gladly slip AVENUEAR $20 if I'd get a direct email response from the man himself. Heck, I'd print off the email and frame it. But seriously, you haven't addressed what those submission fees actually cover, nor how a member receives some sort of evidence that the A&R people actually listened to the music. Or do we simply get WUP'd?


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## David Cuny (Dec 13, 2021)

carsys said:


> Here is a clarification of a phrase that was misinterpreted. “How millions of users feel," refers to how millions of musicians in the world would feel if they only had to pay a small fee to connect with a real A&R and have their song evaluated.


Perhaps you've confused "clarification" with "gaslight".

Really, it's not complicated.

Unless you're Humpty Dumpty, _"millions of users"_ means _"millions of users"_.

This really _isn't_ the way to win hearts and minds, or even create credibility.


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## SyMTiK (Dec 13, 2021)

Also just something I would bring up in my own personal experience dealing with labels and having some close friends who are either artists signed to major labels or work for major labels - from what I have heard and seen, it has become exceptionally rare in the modern age to land a major record contract off of just music alone, if you don't already have a platform and an audience actively consuming your music. This may not necessarily be true for smaller labels, but as far as the big names in commercial music, this is what I have personally observed.

So to me, a platform that tells up and coming musicians that spending 20-100 dollars per song to submit for the chance an A&R rep will listen to it and "might" get you a deal seems more like it is taking advantage of naive customers who don't know any better, meanwhile as a company you are making a killing off of delivering false promises to the customer since technically there IS a chance it "might" happen. I just don't see how this is really benefitting the customer, and I only see how it is profiting the company.

Unless there are numbers that prove otherwise, like if you can prove that even 5% of your users land record deals, or if you provide additional resources to help musicians develop their brand and build an audience to make themselves pitch-able to a label, and teach users how the industry works.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 13, 2021)

carsys said:


> Mr. David, thank you for your feedback. I believe we already wrote that The answer was given within the context of how a musician will feel about being reviewed by a real A&R. That is what AVENUEAR offers. Anyone can extract two or three words from any sentence and write a book about it based on any person's perception and assumptions. This is one of the many reasons it is always good to ask for clarification before assuming. There are connotations of what is written. AVENUEAR's goal is to offer a place where A&Rs and musicians meet. AVENUEAR current members ask the hard questions to A&Rs openly during meetups. We welcome you and musicians to participate and don't leave anything behind. AVENUEAR will keep improving as we receive feedback. Conversations in this forum are fast and loose. Graciousness is always a good policy. Thank you again for all of your feedback, and we will keep working for all those musicians that wish to connect with real A&Rs and keep bringing unique opportunities to musicians of the world.
> Mr. Spencer, we welcome you to speak directly at our AVENUEAR meetups with real A&Rs. Many musicians already interacted with some of our A&R reason why I provided the first event for on-demand viewing. I understand you may not want to spend 3 hours watching it. We heard from some members that watched it twice. There is valuable information that can improve a musician's career. Regarding the video shared, there are time codes in the video to jump to any section of the video. AVENUEAR is here to help musicians of the world and facilitate opportunities.
> 
> Wishing you all a healthy and happy holiday,
> ...


It’s obvious you are a typical salesman who can’t give straightforward, honest answers….with no sense of genuine concern or accountability. This has summed up the entire AVENUEAR platform for me.


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## Akarin (Dec 13, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> They certainly have an original PR strategy: I mean, going to a composers' forum and telling people they aren't sure they are even musicians is not something I would ever have come up with.


I'm not sure that you are even a real human being. Bots have come a long way, you know...


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## MusiquedeReve (Dec 13, 2021)

carsys said:


> The answer was given within the context of how a musician will feel about being reviewed by a real A&R.


It's all about the feel!


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## sleepingtiger (Dec 13, 2021)

To the new and/ or inexperienced: I've signed hundreds of tracks with publishers in the US and UK, have placements all over the place, and once upon a time even had a recording contract (no one you'd remember). I've never once paid for access to anyone in the music business and don't plan to. In my book pay-to-play is always a grift.

Here's the insider secret no one wants you to know: Work hard, make connections, form relationships and improve your craft day by day. It's worked for me and I'm not even particularly good and definitely not good looking. Maybe it will work for you too.

So there ya go. And you don't even owe me $20. Maybe spend it on something nice for yourself instead.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Dec 13, 2021)

sleepingtiger said:


> I've never once paid for access to anyone in the music business and don't plan to. In my book pay-to-play is always a grift.


Yep. I don’t know where that $50k-$100k thing came from….especially with the current roster. We’re not THAT nieve!


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## David Cuny (Dec 13, 2021)

carsys said:


> Hello, musicians of the world! Please see at https://www.avenuear.com/pricing/ Where AVENUEAR is contractual with all the A&Rs and guarantees the music to be heard by the A&R that you submit your songs to or your money back!


That's not what the "guarantee" says:



> We are contractual with all our executives and guarantee your material will be evaluated or your money back.


The term _"contractual with all our executives"_ is meaningless. It makes no claim connecting _"executive"_ to any service rendered.

So all the "guarantee" promises is that if you paid for an evaluation and didn't get one, you'll get your money back.


It's what this "guarantee" _doesn't_ promise that's interesting.


There is no claim that an A&R will perform the evaluation. Nowhere in the "guarantee" does the term A&R even appear.

It doesn't claim a _person_ will perform an evaluation, merely that the material _"will be evaluated"_.

It doesn't define what _"evaluated"_ means.

It doesn't say the evaluation will be performed in a timely manner.

It doesn't even define if _"your money back"_ refers to the subscription or the fee-based submission.


More mere puffery.


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## Paul Grymaud (Dec 14, 2021)

Hello, I am asking a question of general interest. It seems that the decision-maker partners to whom the titles will be proposed are mostly from the world of pop-rock and rap or Rnb. However, you also mention possibilities in the TV and film sector. Here again, you have to know that the segment is very closed. I would say hermetic. However, the majority of musicians or composers here are oriented towards ambient music, film music or even classical music. Some compose and/or play other music. Personally, I play bluegrass banjo. I contacted 22 labels-publishers by sending a temporary listening link to my unedited album. Two of them listened (built-in counter) and answered me "For the moment, we don't take new artists". But, for one "you are a great banjo player" and for the other "you have a lot of talent". Three other labels didn't listen but replied "we are full". The others, radio silence. So, whether it's for my composer friends here on VI CONTROL or the kind of musicians I represent, what are the real possibilities knowing that there is currently an overproduction of everything? Are the decision makers really looking for the "rare pearl" or the "hit of the century" ? Sincerely, I don't think so! I have friends who are successful - one of whom makes instrumental guitar music (20 million albums sold in 40 years) but he owes his success to his special contacts. My other musician friends too, they are all...Masons. It helps ! The excellent contacts I have had have ended in failure because I am neither a mason nor active in the occult world. So, and I encourage my friends here on the site, make your music with pleasure, develop your own business: give lessons, make musical arrangements, record and release your album with modest objectives while developing a network of B2C type rather than B2B, that is to say by privileging the family, the friends, the friends of my friends and the local or regional distribution for example at the end of a stage performance. Also, contacting companies to offer them background music for the phone hold or things like that. But also, think bigger, in Asia: *Japan and South Korea*. If what you do is good, that's where you should do business. If it's very good, they'll work in sub-publishing with the rest of the world. I think, in the West (USA, Europe especially) the business is largely corrupted. I don't care what anyone thinks about what I say. I assume. I know that we are approaching December 25th but, personally, I don't believe in Santa Claus anymore. By the way, I am not bitter. I'm just realistic !


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## Henu (Dec 14, 2021)

I've been thinking how I'd love to see this guy getting a small ban by advertising his "services" in a non-paid thread.

Then I started to think that please let him be here for continuing to dig his own grave and for everyone to see how blatant joke this service is.


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## MarkusS (Dec 14, 2021)

For 20$ Id rather buy myself a bottle of champagne and pretend Im famous already, at least Id get something in return. 🙄


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Dec 14, 2021)

Hearing the words "A&R" and "executive" makes me cringe.


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## mat1 (Dec 22, 2021)

I’ve never heard of anyone getting signed off a paid opportunity like this. It makes zero sense for an a&r to bother with this outside of getting some lunch money. 

Anyone who is good enough would be better off going the traditional route via managers and lawyers. They won’t charge you off the bat either.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 14, 2022)

Lol! In the video, Christian says it was built by musicians for musicians, yet he said he is not a musician . He also said he "heard" that it costs $50k to $100K to submit music to major labels. As a guy who has personally submitted demos to Universal in Canada, I can assure you that is pure rubbish. All you need to do is some leg work and some networking. The video is too long and boring.

And regarding the fees for submitting, it's still unclear what the fee is actually for (other than some extra coffee money?). Afrer all, isn't an A&R's job to find and curate talent? Why should a musician slip them a kickback just get their music "heard"? The musicians are who paying to submit (if any) are actually doing THEM a favour.

I'd be interested to see any videos with testimonials from musicians who got successfully signed as a result of this service.


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## MusiquedeReve (Jan 14, 2022)

So now you are spamming this board with the same post twice?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 14, 2022)

carsys said:


> Hey Mr. Spencer!
> 
> Videos of testimonials about musicians working with A&Rs discovered through AVENUEAR are coming. Not all people in an organization are musicians. I do not believe you would expect a CTO to be one. When the CTO mentions that AVENUEAR is built by musicians for musicians, he refers to the CEO https://www.avenuear.com/jay-leopardi-avenuear-ceo << Bio , AND all the executives that are part of AVENUEAR, AND A&Rs that participated in architecting the system. The CEO has been in the music industry for three (3) decades. Also, all the CEO’s counterparts, including the A&Rs, participated in architecting AVENUEAR flow and how the system should work. Yes, it is correct. This was architected and built by musicians for musicians, and we should add top A&Rs in the world. Some of the engineers in the engineering team are also musicians. These are decades of music experience and understanding what musicians need and want from both the A&R and musician perspectives. AVENUEAR bridged this gap. Having said the above. These A&Rs are looking for hits.
> 
> ...



You still didn’t respond to the questions in my second paragraph (which others have also enquired about). Can you please elaborate? Not tying to be difficult, but they are honest questions.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 14, 2022)

carsys said:


> Do you have a Youtube channel with your music Mr. Spencer?


I don’t, as I my contracts don’t allow this due to content ID issues (publishers and production library companies who I’m with). 

Feel free to check out my site (in my signature) or www.liquiditymusic.com 

Thanks


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## waveheavy (Jan 28, 2022)

Daryl said:


> But who, and why would they prioritise their time with this nonsense?


That link probably is not legit. Anyone can create a website using a popular brand and it will take a bit of time for it to get discovered and taken down. Looks like they're just using Waves as an inroad to the gullible.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 28, 2022)

waveheavy said:


> That link probably is not legit. Anyone can create a website using a popular brand and it will take a bit of time for it to get discovered and taken down. Looks like they're just using Waves as an inroad to the gullible.


Well, at least Waves might gain a few more WUP victims.


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## AVENUEAR (Feb 11, 2022)

Dear musicians,

I am the CEO of AVENUEAR 

I invite you to ask any questions during our live event. I will be happy to answer all your doubts. 

You are welcome to RSVP, and you will receive the zoom link and passcode at this https://www.avenuear.com/avarevents 

Also, as a benefit for you, A&R Ken Komisar will be in this live event with Power music attorney Barry Schrum.
Tennman Records is Justin Timberlake’s joint venture with Interscope Records was launched in 2007. Tennman comes from Justin’s Tennessee roots, where he was born and brought up. Justin being the Founder, appointed the former A+R Vice President of Sony Music Entertainment, Ken Komisar, as the President of Tennman Records. After a few months, he signed a few lucky musicians for his records, including Matt Morris, FreSol, and Brenda Radney. Interscope Records is one of the most prominent record labels globally and has an estimated net worth of $600 million. The label makes $200 million yearly, out of which some of the percentage come from Timberlake’s Tennman Records.


Also, someone asked for live testimonials of users utilizing AVENUEAR.com 

Please see the latest users testimonials at this link


00:00 Intro

00:28 AVENUEAR CTO Welcomes Gregory Prince, AVENUEAR User to the live video testimonial.

01:28 AVENUEAR CTO asks: Have we ever met before?

02:00 Gregory Prince AVENUEAR user is excited to talk about the success achieved at AVENUEAR.

02:05 Prince did not know of AVENUEAR before and dives into how got to know of AVENUEAR.

02:15 What AVENUEAR solved from the user’s perspective. Prince dives into what is his understanding of the gap that AVENUEAR solved.

03:10 Brad a user of AVENUEAR, chimes in introducing himself. Both Mr. Prince and Brad utilize the platform.

04:04 Mr. Gregory Prince introduces himself as a bedroom producer and passion producer.

04:55 Reason why AVENUEAR CTO contacted Prince.

05:00 A&R after receiving demos submitted by Prince reached back and wished to start a working relationship.

05:35 Prince always wished to work with the A&R. Prince reached out but did not have a medium to contact him or even a way to submit his demos to this A&R.

06:00 Gregory dives into the opportunity given by AVENUEAR. Thanks, AVENUEAR for this great opportunity given to him.

06:40 Specific reason that AVENUAR was born.

07:00 Intro to AVENUEAR IT Director Mr. Kevin Harville, who is also a musician and songwriter. Mr. Harville is a former professor in Computer Science from CSU, Sacramento with 30+ years as a Web architect.

09:00 Prince takes the leap of faith and gives AVENUEAR a try.

09:30 When did Prince sign up on AVENUEAR?

09:50 How did Prince hear of AVENUEAR?

11:25 Benefits that Prince received as an AVENUEAR user..

11:40 Issues AVENUEAR users found when submitting songs to Record labels or A&Rs outside the platform.

12:30 What Gregory thinks of AVENUEAR?

13:20 Why AVENUEAR was created in the first place. Success stories.

16:30 Is AVENUEAR affordable?

17:25 Is AVENUEAR easy to use? From the user’s perspective. Is AVENUEAR worth it?

17:50 Are A&Rs contractual with AVENUEAR?

18:20 How can you create a relationship with an A&R?

18:55 Was the AVENUEAR system and process easy to use?

19:50 How to be successful as a musician. What does it take?

20:30 Will you recommend AVENUEAR to other musicians, writers, or producers?

21:10 Was Prince skeptical in using AVENUEAR?

22:30 What Prince recommends to musicians, writers, and producers when using AVENUEAR? 23:10 Advice of what Prince recommends.

24:00 Exclusive videos of interviews with A&Rs for signed-up users.

25:00 Current CEO struggled as a musician in the 80s. What he used to do to get his music to A&Rs.

35:50 What is amazing for Prince (AVENEUAR user opinion)

38:00 Prince wishes. What he was waiting for.

38:30 Prince's past experience using other platforms attempting to reach A&Rs.

39:50 What are Christian and the AVENUEAR’s team’s hopes?

41:00 Privacy and security to the musicians. How AVENUEAR helps in protecting musicians’ work.

44:50 Brad gives his testimonial as an AVENUEAR user


48:10 Prince gives his testimonial from the heart and his advice to AVENUEAR users and those who wish to give AVENUEAR a try.

51:29 Mr. Prince shares that he received 4 and 5 stars for songs submitted via AVENUEAR. 52:20 Mr. Romero notes the A&R rep for DJ Snake is part of AVENUEAR

54:05 AVENUEAR Instagram account where all A&Rs are listed. Including DJ Flores with DJ Snake.

55:40 Some of the benefits of AVENUEAR’s subscribed members.

59:33 New upcoming video coming to the market. A&Rs endorsing AVENUEAR as their platform to listen and discover new producers, writers, and artists.


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## Henu (Feb 11, 2022)

I'm sorry but who the heck is Gregory Prince? A "researcher, businessman, author, social critic, and historian of the Latter Day Saint movement", perhaps?

Seriously, give any dude a free 4- month sub for this parody and hook him up with someone pretending to be interested on his music in a quick email chain and there's a queue of these enthusiastic witnesses banging on your door in order to talk about our lord and saviour AVENUAR.


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## David Cuny (Feb 11, 2022)

AVENUEAR said:


> 00:28 AVENUEAR CTO Welcomes Gregory Prince, AVENUEAR User to the live video testimonial.
> 
> 01:28 AVENUEAR CTO asks: Have we ever met before?








And writing about yourself in the third person?


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## Thomas Kallweit (Feb 11, 2022)

Ok, another parasite has appeared - so sorry for the wording.
Can work out fine, but honestly I get the impression that this seems to be a good third-party business model for entrepeneurs in trying to fill up the purses with money by composers.
We already have some of those companies, now this is another one.

I'm wondering that waves did not say anything here, but I guess PR is not interacting to them.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 11, 2022)

AVENUEAR said:


> Dear musicians,
> 
> I am the CEO of AVENUEAR
> 
> ...



That’s an awful testimonial. Dude received 4 and 5 stars for songs that were submitted… I wonder how much that cost him? I didn’t hear anything about him getting a signed deal or anything. Did it go anywhere after that?

If you are THAT confident, why aren’t your placing a paid ad on the forum?

The video you posted was two weeks ago…only a handful of views.


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## MusiquedeReve (Feb 11, 2022)

WOW - love how the time stamped links all refer to the artist as Prince -- way to try and confuse your audience or ride the coattails of one of the greatest musicians/songwriters of all time

SMH

@AVENUEAR


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## timbit2006 (Feb 11, 2022)

SOMETHING'S NOT RIGHT HERE.




myaboutyou.com
The CTO also owns this domain.
myaboutyou.com used to be called URculture.com
It is a platform that is extraordinarily similar to this AVENUEAR but the idea behind those two companies was to bring the average social media user to "cultural events" where there will be the listed celebrities:








That image is just so you can see how ridiculous this is, those are some top tier celebrities right there that would cost a hell of a lot of money to get onto a platform.
So... time to dig:



Wow this seems pretty cool right?(not really lol)
But... wait a minute... Lets take a look at this particular section of the T&C;




So by using the platform you legally waive your rights to your own content submitted as well as your rights to being falsely advertised to. HMMMMMMMMMMMM
There is also this; on that website this facebook page is linked:




ANOTHER FAILED ATTEMPT AT THIS SCHEME.
There are 4+ sites all related to this guy using the same scheme that takes advantage of those who don't know any better.

Make of this what you want, there is a corporation(myAboutYou, Inc.) behind this as well, They may have found some legal loopholes to exist like this.
If anyone wants to dig further please do. 
To anyone that still thinks this might be legit: Can you really trust a company with a CTO that does this sort of thing?


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## Jeremy Spencer (Feb 11, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> SOMETHING'S NOT RIGHT HERE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yikes! Almost like an evil version of Amway.


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## timbit2006 (Feb 11, 2022)

So uh.
This is the CEO.
In the past he made videos where he fakes celebrity endorsements as well. I can't find anything relating DJ Khaled to this cologne which is apparently made using shredded US dollar bills. As far as I know at least in Canada and many other countries it's a felony to deface currency in that way.


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## MusiquedeReve (Feb 11, 2022)

timbit2006 said:


> SOMETHING'S NOT RIGHT HERE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Surprised they aren't selling NFT"s too LOL


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## AVENUEAR (Feb 11, 2022)

Generally, I do not reply to open forums. AVENUEAR is currently using one account to access this forum. The CEO just contacted me via text about some assumptions some members brought up and some hyperbolic comments that I just read. My name is Christian A. Romero and I am the CTO for AVENUEAR.com. Before becoming a CTO to AVENUEAR, I worked and still until today, one of my firms consults with the former Vice President of Marketing for Enterpreneur magazine. This gentleman is the owner of www.MyAboutYou.com and http://www.Urculutre.com (www.Urculutre.com). You should go to the WHOIS of the domain to identify who owns the domain. You will easily discover that I do not own any of the domains you just assumed. Until today my consulting web firm manages MyAboutYou servers and, when you saw that I had access to this account, is simply the access given to me for our server admins to manage his enterprise servers hosted at AWS. I just see many assumptions, and I just wanted to clarify this. I am not here to answer your questions; true musicians are welcome ask questions directly at www.avenuear.com there is a free event tomorrow Feb 12th @3 p.m. PST. To the musicians who wish to advance their careers, you can attend the live event. I wish everyone a successful 2022. Thank you, all!


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## MusiquedeReve (Feb 11, 2022)

AVENUEAR said:


> Generally, I do not reply to open forums.


Well, your account has been responding and spamming this board since November




AVENUEAR said:


> I am not here to answer your questions


Just to spam the board with advertising without paying for it


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## AVENUEAR (Feb 11, 2022)

@Morphienoir I am not sure who you are. We have a marketing team that opened an account under the name of carsys that was banned. The marketing team or tech support never spams. You may call spam to something you do not like. Again this is another assumption. I do not control any account nor I posted anything in this forum until today. I posted this post and the one before that's it AND @MorphineNoir. What's your name? Again the marketing dept or tech support people post in online forums. I sign my post online as Christian A. Romero. Thank you.


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## MusiquedeReve (Feb 11, 2022)

AVENUEAR said:


> @Morphienoir I am not sure who you are. We have a marketing team that opened an account under the name of carsys that was banned. The marketing team or tech support never spams. You may call spam to something you do not like. Again this is another assumption. I do not control any account nor I posted anything in this forum until today. I posted this post and the one before that's it AND @MorphineNoir. What's your name? Again the marketing dept or tech support people post in online forums. I sign my post online as Christian A. Romero. Thank you.


You can call me Prince


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## rgames (Feb 11, 2022)

Hey @AVENUEAR : I think you're mistaking VI Control for other music-related forums that you spam with your content.

VI Control is different. I'm not sure your time here is well spent. Something to think about.

It's mildly entertaining to watch, though.


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