# Music for the Playmobil Country Trailer



## FriFlo (Feb 4, 2017)

While the world is slowly but surely descending into chaos ... here comes the Playmobil pony ranch trailer. Enjoy the short diversion from reality!


Music only:


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## desert (Feb 4, 2017)

How To Train Your Horse lol

Nah jokes, nice work man


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Feb 4, 2017)

Very nice, but that really is dangerously close, almost identical to Powell at certain moments.

Did they use HTTYD as temp music and then demanded an exact copy? That's happened to me a number of times in the past and has always been the point where I tell them to find a new composer..

_Edit:_
I think it's also important to inform and educate your client at this point about the risks they are taking. Although, in many cases the music licensing agreement or work contract you have with them might actually free them of all copyright related responsibilities and put all of the legal responsibilty on the composer.


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## FriFlo (Feb 4, 2017)

No.  Temp track was HZs Spirit and I don't know the soundtrack you refer to, so every similarity with it is a coincidence. I will check out what you mean, once I find the time.
IMO it is really almost impossible to not sound like something that exists within the boundaries of traditional orchestral score, the only problem is, if you sound like something very popular ... I am not listening to a lot of recent soundtracks, rather to classical music, jazz and some older soundtracks, like Williams. Well, I hope, I will find what you refer to and that it won't be to close.
Edit: Sorry, I have jumped through all tracks of the soundtrack you refer to, but haven't found a single theme in there, that even rang a bell, what you might mean. Maybe I might find something by listening to the whole thing without skipping, which I was to impatient for right now.


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## desert (Feb 5, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> No.  Temp track was HZs Spirit and I don't know the soundtrack you refer to, so every similarity with it is a coincidence. I will check out what you mean, once I find the time.
> IMO it is really almost impossible to not sound like something that exists within the boundaries of traditional orchestral score, the only problem is, if you sound like something very popular ... I am not listening to a lot of recent soundtracks, rather to classical music, jazz and some older soundtracks, like Williams. Well, I hope, I will find what you refer to and that it won't be to close.
> Edit: Sorry, I have jumped through all tracks of the soundtrack you refer to, but haven't found a single theme in there, that even rang a bell, what you might mean. Maybe I might find something by listening to the whole thing without skipping, which I was to impatient for right now.



I noticed it as well, which is why I made my previous comment. There's at least three fragments of Powell's HTTYD themes but I didn't care because I thought your music synced perfectly with the ad and enjoyed listening


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Feb 5, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> IMO it is really almost impossible to not sound like something that exists within the boundaries of traditional orchestral score.



I completely agree with you there.

It was the cumulative effect of a number of small fragments, all related to one specific score that made me suspect there had been a bit of temp-music copying going on, specifically in the first 45 seconds of your clip.
If you've never even heard Powell's score before, then this is indeed quite a significant coincidence.

Here are the bits that stuck out to me. These fragments recur a number of times in the score for HTTYD, that's why my ear immediately tuned in to those:

Your main melody shares the first 6 notes of Powell's 'friendship' theme:

vs.

Throughout the HTTYD score this melody get used perhaps 20-30 times, with rhythmic variation, minor key version, interesting reharmonizations etc. It ultimately becomes very very memorable.

vs.


Also, the motif you use where the girl falls off the horse is similar to a device Powell uses several times during cliffhanger moments

vs.
https://youtu.be/L4o5-f6dGAg?t=47s
(note the friendship theme also coming in using straight 8th notes at around 1:04)

Anyway - you should definitely take a listen to the whole score and even more so to the follow-up HTTYD 2, which in my opinion are among the best orchestral film scores written in the last decade. Based on the music you wrote for this clip I have a feeling you'll enjoy these scores quite a bit.

Also, it might be interesting to know that Powell has specifically said that the directors were asking for a very Nordic sounding score, so he studied Sibelius, Nielsen and Grieg extensively.


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## FriFlo (Feb 5, 2017)

Alright, now I can hear what you are talking about. But I wouldn't say those similarities are very obvious or striking in any way ... it is more like what I said before: if you go for certain stereotypes of film music, like mediant/Tritone harmonic relationship, pentatonic melodies, etc, etc, it becomes almost impossible not to write something similar. The more easy you try to write, the more likely it becomes to not be very original with what's you wrote. The same goes with harmonic progressions. I can honestly state, I didn't deliberately copy someone else's work. I think none of the examples you provided are anything more than a slight similarity, but so differently executed, that no one could ever call that a copy at all. At least, I am not afraid of that at all. But I am not claiming, this is very original music I wrote here.  I think almost anybody could write like that with a little bit of talent and practice. That is probably why it can be easily be mixed up with someone else's work.
Thanks for the hint, though!


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## Zhao Shen (Feb 5, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> Alright, now I can hear what you are talking about. But I wouldn't say those similarities are very obvious or striking in any way ... it is more like what I said before: if you go for certain stereotypes of film music, like mediant/Tritone harmonic relationship, pentatonic melodies, etc, etc, it becomes almost impossible not to write something similar. The more easy you try to write, the more likely it becomes to not be very original with what's you wrote. The same goes with harmonic progressions. I can honestly state, I didn't deliberately copy someone else's work. I think none of the examples you provided are anything more than a slight similarity, but so differently executed, that no one could ever call that a copy at all. At least, I am not afraid of that at all. But I am not claiming, this is very original music I wrote here.  I think almost anybody could write like that with a little bit of talent and practice. That is probably why it can be easily be mixed up with someone else's work.
> Thanks for the hint, though!



Actually, the similarities are very striking. But yeah, I wouldn't go as far as saying that you must have attempted to duplicate a temp track - music composition is by nature a derivative art. Motifs and patterns and progressions are duplicated everywhere, and often unintentionally.

But if you haven't listened to the soundtracks for HTTYD and HTTYD2, I'd recommend you give them a listen. They're absolutely fantastic. HTTYD2 has been my favorite soundtrack for years.


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Feb 5, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> I can honestly state, I didn't deliberately copy someone else's work.



No worries, didn't mean to cause any panic! Again, it was the fact that I recognized several fragments in a row that made me suspicious.. but my apologies, as clearly this is all just a big coincidence.


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## N.Caffrey (Feb 5, 2017)

I understand you didn't copy the piece but these similarities are obvious and striking.


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## FriFlo (Feb 5, 2017)

Zhao Shen said:


> Actually, the similarities are very striking. But yeah, I wouldn't go as far as saying that you must have attempted to duplicate a temp track - music composition is by nature a derivative art. Motifs and patterns and progressions are duplicated everywhere, and often unintentionally.
> 
> But if you haven't listened to the soundtracks for HTTYD and HTTYD2, I'd recommend you give them a listen. They're absolutely fantastic. HTTYD2 has been my favorite soundtrack for years.



Actually, I have seen the first film, but that was many years ago, so, I am pretty sure, I could not have kept any melody from it in my memory for that long. And I have never knowingly listened to the soundtrack alone, up till now. 
What I heard from the soundtrack, now, I like the use of ethnic instruments in some pieces. Also, it is very effectfully orchestrated. But I honestly didn't find the melodies and themes very original or memorable. IMO, e.g. J.W. has more genuine creations to offer in that regard ... well, maybe I have to listen to it more often. It is certainly good film music, just not a masterpiece IMO.


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## FriFlo (Feb 5, 2017)

N.Caffrey said:


> I understand you didn't copy the piece but these similarities are obvious and striking.


Hm ... your opinion. I don't think so!


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## Zhao Shen (Feb 5, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> Actually, I have seen the first film, but that was many years ago, so, I am pretty sure, I could not have kept any melody from it in my memory for that long. And I have never knowingly listened to the soundtrack alone, up till now.
> What I heard from the soundtrack, now, I like the use of ethnic instruments in some pieces. Also, it is very effectfully orchestrated. But I honestly didn't find the melodies and themes very original or memorable. IMO, e.g. J.W. has more genuine creations to offer in that regard ... well, maybe I have to listen to it more often. It is certainly good film music, just not a masterpiece IMO.



Oooooo now that's interesting. There are three HTTYD motifs in particular that I can recall in an instant, and also the entirety of "Forbidden Friendship," which is simply incredible. Since I'm always eager to discover new music, could you name some primarily orchestral scores that you would rank over HTTYD? No Williams, please  I've listened to him a great deal and TBH he's an easy fallback for pretty much any stance taken on soundtracks.



FriFlo said:


> Hm ... your opinion. I don't think so!



Well we're on a forum, so offering opinions is all any of us can do. There's a pretty strong consensus among people who've commented here that there are striking similarities to Powell's work. I doubt that anyone truly believes that you tried to copy his work, but please consider that drawing such a similar response from multiple listeners is not something that should be completely disregarded just because it was someone's "opinion."


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 6, 2017)

Hi Flo!

Your short trailer piece is well written and orchestrated. Regarding the smiliarities what others say I was comparing those spots from your piece and the JP Stuff. All I can say is that I can understand that the other guys relate to that theme because the whole first statement is melodic / harmonic wise such close.
Have transcribed both your and JP few notes and chords: First JP Version, then yours, then yours transposed a half step up to the same key as JP Theme.
Don´t get me wrong, I like your work here and the similiarities don´t dismiss your work at all, but I can understand that others relate to the JP Train your dragon theme as I would do the same in such case.

[AUDIOPLUS=http://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/jp_fire_flo-mp3.7355/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/jp_fire_flo-mp3.7355/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## tokatila (Feb 6, 2017)

Zhao Shen said:


> Well we're on a forum, so offering opinions is all any of us can do. There's a pretty strong consensus among people who've commented here that there are striking similarities to Powell's work. I doubt that anyone truly believes that you tried to copy his work, but please consider that drawing such a similar response from multiple listeners is not something that should be completely disregarded just because it was someone's "opinion."



Yeah, I agree that I immediately thought about HTTYD. Then again; I have listened it analytically numerous times. I have to wonder if the average listener notices anything?


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## FriFlo (Feb 6, 2017)

I find the attitude of some colleagues here more "striking" and "telling" than any of the similarities, you mentioned, to be honest ...


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## WhiteNoiz (Feb 6, 2017)

Some notes are similar, but other than that, it's a typical "fantasy/animation" styled piece. And as much as I agree that the original is well orchestrated and seems to fit the movies well (haven't watched them), I'm also hardly fascinated by or enamored with it. I hardly care if it's similar tbh; it happens to me all the time when I listen to stuff or write, but it rarely ruins something. And that's my opinion. There's even a chance that some listener might like it more or relate to it in a subconscious level. That's not necessarily bad. I'm curious what the reaction would be if someone posted some reference from 20 or 40 years ago that sounds similar to Powell's pieces. I've seen similar stuff about "public domain Williams", but I'm not sure anyone really cares and I actually think he does some amazing throwbacks and references. I prefer to see all this in a "playful", human and not "shadowy" way. I'm personally really sad you didn't invent the wheel. To the gallows then!

But what I'm more sad about is that you probably posted this in a good spirit and the reaction ruined your day. That's why I try to refrain from posting because my taste is very different and I mostly use older samples and sometimes it's just not healthy for me to face critisism in the lines of "if it's not Berlin or SF, it's ****" (nothing against them, I actually really like them). That's at least the feeling I get some times. (Maybe it's the way I see it) And I'll stop there because I don't want to make this about me, start a fight or berate anyone and as much as I may get bothered with some approaches, everyone's entitled to their opinion and can freely express it; like I did. And they may also occasionally (or even always) be right. So, there's that, too. (Sorry, had to get it off my chest and I jumped on the opportunity)

Another reason I don't want to write anything more is that maybe I'm having a bad day and I'll probably look back at this and be like "wtf was I thinking/writing". But I think I feel you.

As far as the piece goes, I think it's fine. It could probably use some more CC shaping and maybe some saturation/reverb/comp to make it a bit more cohesive, but whatevs...

--

Edit: Maybe I just have an inferiority complex because I don't have all the "latest and greatest" and this is all me. In the end, I don't really care, but I don't like to feel like I'm "made" to think that way. It's just negative for me, no matter if someone actually comments in a mean-spirited way or that's just how they see it and I feel it impacting me differently than what their actual intent is. Also, my apologies, as saying this does also feel a bit hypocritical and snooty when I occasionally post and ask for opinions. I generally try to balance things and myself. Had to say it though.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Feb 6, 2017)

FriFlo said:


> I find the attitude of some colleagues here more "striking" and "telling" than any of the similarities, you mentioned, to be honest ...



It is all fine. I am not saying to have a problem with that. I am just saying that I can understand that certain people connect your motif to the one which John powel did. Like I said: It doesn´t at all diminish your great work here. So I hope you don´t mind that I commented in that regards. I say that you have a natural great grip on that hollywood sound and that proves it here.


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## Mundano (Feb 6, 2017)

Beethoven was alone, Mozart was alone, John Williams was alone... but we are all surrounded by millions of composers working parallel...  it is normal to have similarities to others works. Nice Playmobil Trailer. I like the spirit of adventure.


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## Oouzha (Feb 6, 2017)

If I had the time, I'd find a youtube clip of a BB King riff that directly parallels a youtube clip of a Muddy Waters riff and I'd drop a mic or something.

No worries about all these accusations of ripping off. It's genre-work. It's not a direct rip-off. It's just reminiscent, but those kinds of echoes are inevitable within genre. I think this score sounds great. Awesome stuff! Thanks for posting; I enjoyed it.


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## Mihkel Zilmer (Feb 6, 2017)

Oouzha said:


> No worries about all these accusations of ripping off.



Hang on, as far as I can see noone here is actually accusing Fritz of ripping anything off.

Sorry about derailing this thread from what should have been its main focus of attention - the piece written by Fritz. My ultimate intention here was to increase awareness about an entirely different issue which I am sure I am not the only one to experience - facing directors with serious affection towards temp-music.


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## FriFlo (Feb 7, 2017)

Mihkel Zilmer said:


> Hang on, as far as I can see noone here is actually accusing Fritz of ripping anything off.
> 
> Sorry about derailing this thread from what should have been its main focus of attention - the piece written by Fritz. My ultimate intention here was to increase awareness about an entirely different issue which I am sure I am not the only one to experience - facing directors with serious affection towards temp-music.


Hmm, I don't know ... telling, that you can hear some similarities between my piece and another score is ok. But insisting for many times, those similarities are striking ... to me, that came of like some sort of accusation. If it is mixed with some sort of compliment, this accusation seems a little bit weakened. But someone who just writes into this thread to repeat, those similarities were striking, comes off a little aggressive to me. The fact that this person doesn't even share his own music via e.g. SoundCloud makes me question his motives ...


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## wbacer (Feb 7, 2017)

Hey, FriFlo. I think you hit it out of the park. If your happy, your client's happy and their check cashed then it's all good. Your melodic, harmonic and orchestration choices really fit the piece. I showed it to my kids and it made them smile. Great job, now go write another one.


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## jononotbono (Feb 7, 2017)

I thought it was great! Wish I could write music like this!


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## FriFlo (Apr 5, 2017)

Here goes the music only:

unfortunately, the conversion of Soundcloud seems to have gotten even worse. I assume it is especially the case with tracks with big dynamics, as there are ugly jumps and pops in the audio, that are not present in the original, of course. I suppose, you have to do some compression beforehand to prevent that from happening, but I think it is shameful for Soundcloud ... even Youtube sounds way better than this ...


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## byzantium (Apr 5, 2017)

FriFlo, this is really stellar stuff - the music works so well with that video, the moods are perfect, the timing is brilliant, and the production sound quality and clarity is fantastic, both on the music and the FX. Talk of similarities to other work to me I think is somewhat distracting from what is a top-class job you've done here. I would be really proud of this, and thanks for posting.


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## FriFlo (Apr 6, 2017)

byzantium said:


> FriFlo, this is really stellar stuff - the music works so well with that video, the moods are perfect, the timing is brilliant, and the production sound quality and clarity is fantastic, both on the music and the FX. Talk of similarities to other work to me I think is somewhat distracting from what is a top-class job you've done here. I would be really proud of this, and thanks for posting.


Thank you! You are to kind. I am quite content with what I achieved, although I am not totally happy (never!).


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## byzantium (Apr 6, 2017)

Ah we are never happy with what we produce, quite content is pretty good - but that's a good sign, as that makes you get better and better.


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## reddognoyz (Apr 6, 2017)

A lot of the top of this thread sounds like sour grapes to me. Such a simple melody falling right under the fingers, why would you guys air this out? Are you hoping to get the composer in some sort of trouble? Jeez! I am going to borrow from Frozen here..."Let it go, let it go"


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## FriFlo (Apr 6, 2017)

reddognoyz said:


> A lot of the top of this thread sounds like sour grapes to me. Such a simple melody falling right under the fingers, why would you guys air this out? Are you hoping to get the composer in some sort of trouble? Jeez! I am going to borrow from Frozen here..."Let it go, let it go"


Exactly my thoughts. It happens naturally when going in the territory of simple, memorable tunes, that you you almost cannot avoid to have some people seeing some similarities with well known works. Who knows how many lesser known works you unintentionally rip off!? Anyone writing music must know how much has already been said and that is also the reason why it is so damn hard to say anything really new. I am not claiming to be Beethoven with this piece! Certainly not! All I can say is, if there are some similarities to other works, it was not intentional by any means.


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