# Best Cello library?



## fayez (Nov 5, 2020)

hey Guys.

is Tina Guo the best solo Chello Library? am getting BBCSO Pro on Black Friday. does it compare to The Cello Leader of BBCSO pro?


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## doctoremmet (Nov 5, 2020)

Please search the forum for @jaketanner ‘s legendary “killer cello” thread. Thanks.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 5, 2020)

Need a killer solo cello


Hi, So I am working on a lullaby album that has a harp as the main instrument. I need a solo cello that is raw, upfront, yet has a beautiful rich legato tone, not using shorts. I have currently that does not work: Tina Guo (both vol., and if Tina had a close mic option, it might be a winner...




vi-control.net


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## fayez (Nov 5, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Need a killer solo cello
> 
> 
> Hi, So I am working on a lullaby album that has a harp as the main instrument. I need a solo cello that is raw, upfront, yet has a beautiful rich legato tone, not using shorts. I have currently that does not work: Tina Guo (both vol., and if Tina had a close mic option, it might be a winner...
> ...


man, why do you want to torture me ?  there is 12 pages of answers. can you just give me the answer, what did you buy at the end? my need is same as yours lol


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## ism (Nov 5, 2020)

fayez said:


> is Tina Guo the best solo Chello Library?


No


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## fayez (Nov 5, 2020)

ism said:


> No


lol, thx for the details, appreciate it


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## doctoremmet (Nov 5, 2020)

fayez said:


> man, why do you want to torture me ?  there is 12 pages of answers. can you just give me the answer, what did you buy at the end? my need is same as yours lol


The free Pocket Blakus cello is the best cello. Kid you not.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 5, 2020)

fayez said:


> there is 12 pages of answers


The answer is 42 by the way.


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## ism (Nov 5, 2020)

fayez said:


> lol, thx for the details, appreciate it



Well if reading other threads is too much detail, and my answer is not enough detail ... well, I fear you're looking for an bullet point answer that just doesn't exist, because the question is a great deal more involved than that. 

There's quite a few good thread on solo cellos libraries around vi-c. I'd really recommend glancing through some of them.


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## fayez (Nov 5, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> The answer is 42 by the way.


lol thx for the clarification. and thx ill check the free pocket balks


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## doctoremmet (Nov 5, 2020)

ism said:


> Well if reading other threads is too much detail, and my answer is not enough detail ... well, I fear you're looking for an bullet point answer that just doesn't exist, because the question is a great deal more involved than that.
> 
> There's quite a few good thread on solo cellos libraries around vi-c. I'd really recommend glancing through some of them.


Imagine all the time that would take though...


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## ism (Nov 5, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Imagine all the time that would take though...


And yet *still* probably faster than learning to play the cello.


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## P3TAAL (Nov 5, 2020)

fayez said:


> hey Guys.
> 
> is Tina Guo the best solo Chello Library? am getting BBCSO Pro on Black Friday. does it compare to The Cello Leader of BBCSO pro?


My Favourite is Chris Hein, I bought the solo strings bundle after much research. I find it has a lovely tone and you can get some quite beautiful lines out of it. The Cello & Viola are my favourite from the bundle. It's quite dry which is why I like it so much, although it does have built in room ambience if you want that. and it has a lot of articulations. I tend to use it with an external reverb plugin. Just bought 'Sonsig Rev A' (a beautiful reverb on sale at the moment) which it sounds lovely through.

I Have Tina Guo but hardly use it. I find it much more difficult to get it to sound good in a mix


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## Windbag (Nov 5, 2020)

_***if you have a bunch of realtime control:_ Audio Modeling's SWAM Cello. I've been messing around with playing that with a breath controller, Roli, and x/y joystick, and can now fairly confidently reproduce (with a bit of practice) most articulations I hear regularly...without a mess of keyswitches or articulation patches. The roli makes a perfect fingerboard and I'd have a hard time believing you could get anywhere near the expressive control from a sample library.

But it can sound odd when just keyboard+modwheeling it; too many other crucial values stay fixed and it comes off a bit synthetic.


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## Crowe (Nov 5, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> The free Pocket Blakus cello is the best cello. Kid you not.



Damnit Doc. You're enabling him.


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## P3TAAL (Nov 5, 2020)

Yes that pocket Blakus free has a great tone too. Bone dry but stick a nice reverb on it and your away..


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## fayez (Nov 5, 2020)

P3TAAL said:


> My Favourite is Chris Hein, I bought the solo strings bundle after much research. I find it has a lovely tone and you can get some quite beautiful lines out of it. The Cello & Viola are my favourite from the bundle. It's quite dry which is why I like it so much, although it does have built in room ambience if you want that. and it has a lot of articulations. I tend to use it with an external reverb plugin. Just bought 'Sonsig Rev A' (a beautiful reverb on sale at the moment) which it sounds lovely through.
> 
> I Have Tina Guo but hardly use it. I find it much more difficult to get it to sound good in a mix


oh thx


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## lettucehat (Nov 5, 2020)

Windbag said:


> _***if you have a bunch of realtime control:_ Audio Modeling's SWAM Cello. I've been messing around with playing that with a breath controller, Roli, and x/y joystick, and can now fairly confidently reproduce (with a bit of practice) most articulations I hear regularly...without a mess of keyswitches or articulation patches. The roli makes a perfect fingerboard and I'd have a hard time believing you could get anywhere near the expressive control from a sample library.
> 
> But it can sound odd when just keyboard+modwheeling it; too many other crucial values stay fixed and it comes off a bit synthetic.



Share! I've seen just a few people make the SWAM violin sound good with lots of controllers in real time, but the cello seems even harder. Would love to see what you've done with it.

Edit: and yes Pocket Blakus


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## Sunny Schramm (Nov 5, 2020)

there is no "best" as always - it has to fit your needs. these instruments are too complex and different to get all in one instrument. listen to the walkthroughs. I love my Emotional Cello from BestService - fits most of my needs. I also want the Chris Hein Solo Cello in the future for the dry sound. But I think with the 50% discount all tina guo libs are a nobrainer


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## Mike Fox (Nov 5, 2020)

Sunny Schramm said:


> there is no "best" as always - it has to fit your needs. these instruments are too complex and different to get all in one instrument. listen do the walkthroughs. I love my Emotional Cello from BestService - fits most of my needs. I also want the Chris Hein Solo Cello in the future for the dry sound. But I think with the 50% discount all tina guo libs are a nobrainer


This.


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## Casiquire (Nov 5, 2020)

Twelve pages isn't that bad to skim through! You would have been done reading it by now. What if this thread turns into twelve pages too? There's no perfect library, so there's no one-paged answer, unfortunately.


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## jaketanner (Nov 5, 2020)

fayez said:


> hey Guys.
> 
> is Tina Guo the best solo Chello Library? am getting BBCSO Pro on Black Friday. does it compare to The Cello Leader of BBCSO pro?


I have both and no. Tina is a far different sound, meant to stand as a true solo instrument, while the leader is meant to blend in with the orchestra...more of a first chair, than a solo instrument...but I would get BBC pro FIRST...if you are getting it anyway, then check out the cello...however, with everything at 50% off now at CS, I'd recommend getting Tina anyway since it's a no brainer at $49.


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## fayez (Nov 6, 2020)

jaketanner said:


> I have both and no. Tina is a far different sound, meant to stand as a true solo instrument, while the leader is meant to blend in with the orchestra...more of a first chair, than a solo instrument...but I would get BBC pro FIRST...if you are getting it anyway, then check out the cello...however, with everything at 50% off now at CS, I'd recommend getting Tina anyway since it's a no brainer at $49.


thx man


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## micrologus (Nov 6, 2020)

I own several cello libraries, but personally I prefer the Chris Hein Cello.


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## Moruzgva (Nov 6, 2020)

Are there any tuning issues with solo cello libraries?


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## doctoremmet (Nov 6, 2020)

Moruzgva said:


> Are there any tuning issues with solo cello libraries?


With ALL of them? As a special category of libraries that are extremely prone to tuning issues?


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## Crowe (Nov 6, 2020)

Do you mean whether it's been tuned to concert pitch?

You can safely assume that good libraries will be tuned correctly.


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## Moruzgva (Nov 6, 2020)

sorry,I didn't express myself very well with tuning issues..I mean out of tune from the rest of the instruments that I've record (piano,guitar..) I'm looking on this Tina Guo cello,its on sale now,so I'll have to be smart to pick a good one..Acoustic cello legato or vol2


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## Crowe (Nov 6, 2020)

Moruzgva said:


> sorry,I didn't express myself very well with tuning issues..I mean out of tune from the rest of the instruments that I've record (piano,guitar..) I'm looking on this Tina Guo cello,its on sale now,so I'll have to be smart to pick a good one..Acoustic cello legato or vol2



I suppose that depends on if you're tuning to 440 hz? Which I think you probably are and as such, there should be no problem. As I said, as a rule, samples are properly pitched so...

Also the answer is both. ACL is for slow passages, Vol2 for speedier ones.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 6, 2020)

Moruzgva said:


> sorry,I didn't express myself very well with tuning issues..I mean out of tune from the rest of the instruments that I've record (piano,guitar..) I'm looking on this Tina Guo cello,its on sale now,so I'll have to be smart to pick a good one..Acoustic cello legato or vol2


They’re not out of tune. That would be totally weird for a sample developer to release btw.


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## Moruzgva (Nov 6, 2020)

Tnx for your answers


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## X-Bassist (Nov 6, 2020)

Some Cello options that I own to consider:

Chris Hien- many articulations, little more raw sound, but has detail and many phased dynamic layers.

Emotional Cello- many articulations, beautiful tone (sometimes great, sometimes a more raw sound works better when you don’t want beautiful).

Virharmonic Cello - “player” that picks articulations based on how you play. Works well but free expansions should improve it even more. Great if your tired of keyswitches or just like playing live.

Cinestrings Solo - Cello and Viola are particularly beautiful and have a great tone. Articulations are basic but cover all the bases. The customizable trigger interface and room/mics are a big plus.

Tina Guo 1+2 - Beautiful tone, great for emotional solos, but can be too much vibrato for some parts. Could use a master nki combining both libraries.

So it really depends on how you want to use it, and what features are important to you. Also which tone/playability appeals to you and the music you plan to do. Cheers.


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## Michael Stibor (Nov 6, 2020)

Sunny Schramm said:


> there is no "best" as always - it has to fit your needs. these instruments are too complex and different to get all in one instrument. listen to the walkthroughs. I love my Emotional Cello from BestService - fits most of my needs. I also want the Chris Hein Solo Cello in the future for the dry sound. But I think with the 50% discount all tina guo libs are a nobrainer


He didn't ask what fits his needs, as he didn't tell us his needs. Nor does he want to wade through twelve whole pages of discussion. He _just_ wants to know what you think is the best. So tell him, darnit!


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## Crowe (Nov 6, 2020)

The answer has been given. It's PocketBlakus. End of discussion.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 6, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> The answer has been given. It's PocketBlakus. End of discussion.


We wouldn’t want a thread with 12 pages, God forbid.


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## Hendrixon (Nov 6, 2020)

Fluffy simple collo.


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## Sonixinema (Nov 6, 2020)

We just released a new cello today, called Contemporary Soloists: Cello  Will be posting further details on the Deals page tomorrow. https://www.sonixinema.com/


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## Troels Folmann (Nov 6, 2020)




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## MartinH. (Nov 6, 2020)

fayez said:


> man, why do you want to torture me ?  there is 12 pages of answers. can you just give me the answer, what did you buy at the end? my need is same as yours lol



Seems like it always goes something like this:


OP: What ___ library should I buy?

Some user: Here are countless threads about what ____ library to buy.

OP: But They all are 12+ pages long, I don't have time for that.

at least a dozen people: *sigh* - fine, here's a dozen+ elaborate and contradicting posts about what ____ library to buy.

[12 pages later]

OP: Well that was confusing, but thanks I guess.


_And rinse and repeat with the next guy wanting to know anything about ___ library..._


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## Crowe (Nov 6, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Seems like it always goes something like this:
> 
> 
> OP: What ___ library should I buy?
> ...



Really? That's the moment I stopped taking all of this seriously. If you can't take the time to read through a thread on a difficult topic, you don't have the time to find what you're looking for.

Also the answer is *PocketBlakus.*

I don't understand why people keep saying otherwise. This is what he wants.


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## Troels Folmann (Nov 6, 2020)

It is a bit like asking who is your favorite guitar player ... It can be hard to discern since there are so many wonderful players that each have their own style. Sample libraries are no different - and I think it is beautiful we have options now. Wasn't always like this - and I know that we (8Dio) will continue down this path. No instrument to rule them all or at least I haven't played it yet.


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## dylanmixer (Nov 6, 2020)

I just picked up 8dio's Deep Solo Cello, and it's got a thumbs up from me. 88 articulations...


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## doctoremmet (Nov 6, 2020)

Troels Folmann said:


> It is a bit like asking who is your favorite guitar player ... It can be hard to discern since there are so many wonderful players that each have their own style. Sample libraries are no different - and I think it is beautiful we have options now. Wasn't always like this - and I know that we (8Dio) will continue down this path. No instrument to rule them all or at least I haven't played it yet.


Troels, you and Colin have created some of the very best sampled instruments I own. Just saying /end fanboyism


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## doctoremmet (Nov 6, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Seems like it always goes something like this:
> 
> 
> OP: What ___ library should I buy?
> ...


Thanks for this hahaha. Truth!


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## doctoremmet (Nov 6, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> Also the answer is *PocketBlakus.*
> 
> I don't understand why people keep saying otherwise. This is what he wants.


This was the concensus after all. And let’s face it... @jaketanner was not an easy guy to convince, now was he?


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## doctoremmet (Nov 6, 2020)

Now... I trust this community will get this thread to 12 pages. Go!


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Nov 6, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Now... I trust this community will get this thread to 12 pages. Go!


If you keep it up with all those posts, it will! 

Edit: Btw. it’s so good to have you back


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## jaketanner (Nov 6, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> This was the concensus after all. And let’s face it... @jaketanner was not an easy guy to convince, now was he?


Haven't gotten the paid version, but at the time, pocket was all I needed.


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## Windbag (Nov 7, 2020)

lettucehat said:


> Share! I've seen just a few people make the SWAM violin sound good with lots of controllers in real time, but the cello seems even harder. Would love to see what you've done with it.
> 
> Edit: and yes Pocket Blakus



Hey sorry for the massive delay here (couple other things on my mind this week). Don't have finished samples handy so I just recorded in a few of the first cello parts that came to mind (Williams, Djawadi, Bach, Kabalevsky) ...this is all played in with no editing except a wrong note here and there; trying out moving the bow pressure and placement to bite pressure and "nod" sensor on the BBC2. While I'd had decent luck with those on a joystick before, this leaves both hands available for roli. The first notes demonstrate some of the tone difference those bow controls make to the timbre...vibrato all Roli'd in 


EDIT: let me know if you want to hear different models (I tend to just leave it on my favorite) - they do vary a good bit.


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## AudioLoco (Nov 9, 2020)

Tina is the best I have personally tried. You can't go wrong. It's natural, powerful, deep.
The only critcism is you have to load the vol2 to have the extra all-important articulations.


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## raidmarji (Nov 9, 2020)

Check HR Cello from www.hrsounds.com

*<MODERATOR NOTE - THIS IS HIS LIBRARY HE'S POSTING>*


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## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2020)

raidmarji said:


> Check HR Cello from www.hrsounds.com


What’s up with you posting these demos in any and all threads containing “cello” in their title? Are you a fan? Or are you shamelessly plugging it? If the latter is the case I would like to know whether or not you are or represent the developer. Thanks!


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## raidmarji (Nov 9, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> What’s up with you posting these demos in any and all threads containing “cello” in their title? Are you a fan? Or are you shamelessly plugging it? If the latter is the case I would like to know whether or not you are or represent the developer. Thanks!


Thanks for your nice words. 
I think that he asked for a nice cello sound and in my opinion, this is the best. just trying to help. It will not harm listening to the demos and he will decide weather it is good or not.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2020)

raidmarji said:


> Thanks for your nice words.
> I think that he asked for a nice cello sound and in my opinion, this is the best. just trying to help. It will not harm listening to the demos and he will decide weather it is good or not.


That’s fair. So you’re a fan. And not in any way affiliated with the developer of the library? Because that part of my inquiry remains kind of unanswered...

But I just found my answer


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## raidmarji (Nov 9, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> That’s fair. So you’re a fan. And not in any way affiliated with the developer of the library? Because that part of my inquiry remains kind of unanswered...


It is MY LIBRARY and so proud of it as it took 1 year of hard work. The most interesting thing that it has ZERO articulations, everything is done on the Fly so it will not kill your inspiration and ideas and no editing needed


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## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2020)

raidmarji said:


> It is MY LIBRARY and so proud of it as it took 1 year of hard work. The most interesting thing that it has ZERO articulations, everything is done on the Fly so it will not kill your inspiration and ideas and no editing needed


That sounds cool. I like libraries like that, such as Aaron Venture’s Infinite series.


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## raidmarji (Nov 9, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> That’s fair. So you’re a fan. And not in any way affiliated with the developer of the library? Because that part of my inquiry remains kind of unanswered...
> 
> But I just found my answer



I answered you, and no need to advertise as the demos speak for themselves, something a real musician will recognize.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2020)

raidmarji said:


> It is MY LIBRARY and so proud of it as it took 1 year of hard work. The most interesting thing that it has ZERO articulations, everything is done on the Fly so it will not kill your inspiration and ideas and no editing needed


And of course you are proud. Still, it may be a wise idea to make sure people in threads like these can easily recognize you’re here as a developer. We are a tough crowd of professionals and hobbyists (like myself). There are commercial sections for developers. And of course we all love for developers to chime in in “regular” discussions. But it is kind of “not done” to act as if you’re just a regular forum member with an opinion on what is the best cello library.


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## raidmarji (Nov 9, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> That sounds cool. I like libraries like that, such as Aaron Venture’s Infinite series.



Aaron Venture’s Infinite series are amazing, you are 100% right. but the HR series look more live


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## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2020)

You are 100% entitled to your opinion @raidmarji - I was just trying to clear something up and have offered you my advice with the best of intentions. Good luck with your ventures. I shall refrain from further advice and comments.


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## Lee Blaske (Nov 9, 2020)

Sunny Schramm said:


> there is no "best" as always - it has to fit your needs. these instruments are too complex and different to get all in one instrument. listen to the walkthroughs. I love my Emotional Cello from BestService - fits most of my needs. I also want the Chris Hein Solo Cello in the future for the dry sound. But I think with the 50% discount all tina guo libs are a nobrainer



Totally agree. There are a lot of contenders, and instruments with unique sounds. There is no one, "best" cello sound.

What also is important, though, is the performance and programming skill level of the user, and the ability to manage a lot of controller and key switching inputs. Some of the higher end libraries are getting quite complex. A skilled performer/programmer can get excellent results, but someone who doesn't have those skills (and perhaps also doesn't know idiomatically how a cello performs) won't get good results.


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## raidmarji (Nov 9, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> And of course you are proud. Still, it may be a wise idea to make sure people in threads like these can easily recognize you’re here as a developer. We are a tough crowd of professionals and hobbyists (like myself). There are commercial sections for developers. And of course we all love for developers to chime in in “regular” discussions. But it is kind of “not done” to act as if you’re just a regular forum member with an opinion on what is the best cello library.


you are right, but honestly I'm not into advertisement, that's why I'm not interested in posting a new thread, it is just my opinion and weather the people like it or not is up to them


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## raidmarji (Nov 9, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> You are 100% entitled to your opinion @raidmarji - I was just trying to clear something up and have offered you my advice with the best of intentions. Good luck with your ventures. I shall refrain from further advice and comments.


No Sir
your advice and help are of great value. Rally thank you so much


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## doctoremmet (Nov 9, 2020)

My advice is not to create a separate thread. But in the future it would be civil to announce yourself as a strings Kontakt library developer when you want to weigh in with tips to listen to the library you sell


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## raidmarji (Nov 9, 2020)

Lee Blaske said:


> Totally agree. There are a lot of contenders, and instruments with unique sounds. There is no one, "best" cello sound.
> 
> What also is important, though, is the performance and programming skill level of the user, and the ability to manage a lot of controller and key switching inputs. Some of the higher end libraries are getting quite complex. A skilled performer/programmer can get excellent results, but someone who doesn't have those skills (and perhaps also doesn't know idiomatically how a cello performs) won't get good results.


I consider my programming skills less than zero. The good samples helped me, besides the ease of play is my prime objective. In these HR libraries, the only controller that is used is the modulation wheel that acts like expression or breath controller, so no need to go into a sophisticated scripting that will kill the sound and your creativity, Just run and play


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## ALittleNightMusic (Nov 9, 2020)

I have Emotional Cello, which I think is quite good. I also have Chris Hein, which I don't use, but only because it feels harder to program and the tone is an acquired test. The CineSamples sale is making me interested in Tina Guo but I wonder if it is any better than Emotional Cello.


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## widescreen (Nov 10, 2020)

I have Tina Guo 1+2, Blakus Cello (full, not pocket) and the Cremona Quartet with Stradivari Cello. As a beginner I can get decent results with Tina Guo in a shorter time than the others just regarding a solo part. Blakus Cello is more complicated and requires more time to incorporate. Stradivari Cello lies in between, also with the sound. Tina Guo=smooth, emotional; Blakus=rougher, technical, precise; Stradivari Cello=in the middle. I wouldn't say that any of these is better than the others as they are each unique.
Just my experience without having a complete market overview. An additional library I own is the Session Strings Pro 2 from NI, but they are more "standard", fitting for pop productions.

In the actual sale time I would say that Tina Guo is a real no-brainer.
I bought 2nd hand Embertone Intimate Strings (with Blakus Cello) as I wanted just the Leonid Bass to complement to Cremona Quartet that comes without bass. It was just a little more than buying Leonid Bass alone so that was also a no-brainer.
But the first time I played Blakus I was really happy to have got it as a "gift". To have 3 coequal Cello libraries of that quality I feel very lucky as a hobbyist.


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## Zero&One (Nov 10, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> _And rinse and repeat with the next guy wanting to know anything about ___ library..._



I really feel like I need ___ now. Is it available for a pre order super bonus?
How many layers does it have?
Is ___ the newer version of __ or is that useless now as it's old n stuff?

I bought N and I wasn't impressed, more hype than substance. Hope ___ is better.


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## zimm83 (Nov 10, 2020)

8dio new solo cello. Polyphonic legatos. That's it .


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## Windbag (Nov 10, 2020)

Zero&One said:


> I really feel like I need ___ now. Is it available for a pre order super bonus?
> How many layers does it have?
> Is ___ the newer version of __ or is that useless now as it's old n stuff?
> 
> I bought N and I wasn't impressed, more hype than substance. Hope ___ is better.



I'm kinda new here....but I sure didn't click on "sample talk" expecting to find brownie recipes


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## Zoot_Rollo (Dec 11, 2020)

Unedited MIDI file import into Studio One.

Chris Hein - Solo Cello
Joshua Bell Violin


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## muziksculp (Dec 11, 2020)

Can Emotional Cello be switched to have Velocity control Dynamics, especially for the short articulations ?

As is, Dynamics are controlled by the Mod-Wheel CC#1, which I don't think is the best way to use for short articulations.

I'm finding it a bit of a challenge to use Emotional Cello, so many articulation options, and lots of key-switches to deal with. That's why I prefer Physically Modeled Instruments. i.e. Sample Modeling, or Audio Modeling Solo Cello.


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## rmak (Dec 11, 2020)

Does anyone have experience with xsample contemporary solo strings? They sound pretty good and appear to be able to glissando up the scale. I haven't found any YouTube videos on an in depth walkthrough; the GUI looks somewhat cluttered.


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## rmak (Dec 11, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Can Emotional Cello be switched to have Velocity control Dynamics, especially for the short articulations ?
> 
> As is, Dynamics are controlled by the Mod-Wheel CC#1, which I don't think is the best way to use for short articulations.
> 
> I'm finding it a bit of a challenge to use Emotional Cello, so many articulation options, and lots of key-switches to deal with. That's why I prefer Physically Modeled Instruments. i.e. Sample Modeling, or Audio Modeling Solo Cello.


I just bought emotional violin and cello also. I am learning the key switches. I program the midi in and then I just try to go through all the key switches to see if it works. I find it hard to smoothly incorporate some of the ornaments, like soft and delicate end and also the rebow ones, without it's tone or sound suddenly jumping or making it obvious that the samples are switching from the articulations to ornamentation.


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## muziksculp (Dec 11, 2020)

rmak said:


> I find it hard to smoothly incorporate some of the ornaments, like soft and delicate end and also the rebow ones, without it's tone or sound suddenly jumping or making it obvious that the samples are switching from the articulations to ornamentation.



Yes, that's the problem with a jigsaw puzzle type articulation based Sampled Virtual Instrument.

I wonder if there is a good video tutorial on how best to use Emotional series of Solo Strings with all these articulations, and to make them sound seemlessly smooth, and natural when switching articulations. I also find that quite a challenge, especially if you are the type that likes to play/perform the instrument in real time, rather than go in, and surgically edit midi notes and their assigned keyswitches for hours to get something decent sounding.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 11, 2020)

rmak said:


> Does anyone have experience with xsample contemporary solo strings? They sound pretty good and appear to be able to glissando up the scale. I haven't found any YouTube videos on an in depth walkthrough; the GUI looks somewhat cluttered.


I do. I’m a big fan of all of Hans Josef’s stuff. They sound great and have a decent amount of pretty good and unique articulations. The UI is different than most generic ones, CCs are not always what one is used to, and indeed the walkthroughs, tutorials and manuals are just “not really there”. I was planning to do just that, i.e. create some content and share some of my experience with the libraries but unfortunately I got sidetracked by some personal problems in 2020. I hope I can do this early 2021. My advice in the mean time is to read the original thread on the Contemporary Solo Strings. There is just one real demo on YT / SoundCloud which does do the library justice. The Xsample woodwinds (Complete Part 1) are also brilliant by the way....

I highly recommend these strings, they excel at “modern chamber music” vibes and largely ignore everything cinematic, hybrid or hip. Quality product, pretty unique sounds. The Complete Part 4 solo strings are slightly older but do share the same design philosophy and have the same sound esthetic. So maybe also listen to some of the SoundCloud demos of that library.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 11, 2020)

Xsample Contemporary Solo Strings


I wanted to give a heads up and first impressions on Xsample Contemporary Solo Strings. Apparently it was released last month (?) but I haven't heard anything about it here or elsewhere. This is a Kontakt (full) library of 4 solo string instruments (violin/viola/cello/bass). There are plenty...




vi-control.net


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## Minsky (Dec 11, 2020)

fayez said:


> hey Guys.
> 
> is Tina Guo the best solo Chello Library? am getting BBCSO Pro on Black Friday. does it compare to The Cello Leader of BBCSO pro?


No. It's not great. I regret my purchase.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 11, 2020)

Minsky said:


> No. It's not great. I regret my purchase.


Of course that is a valid opinion. I have to say though that many people do like Tina Guo. I couldn’t help but notice (in another thread where you posted this) that you have had a crappy customer experience, for which I’m sorry. Maybe that experience slightly “taints” this post too?


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## Minsky (Dec 11, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Of course that is a valid opinion. I have to say though that many people do like Tina Guo. I couldn’t help but notice (in another thread where you posted this) that you have had a crappy customer experience, for which I’m sorry. Maybe that experience slightly “taints” this post too?


Yes, 100% it does. I'm really annoyed tbh. The reason I asked for a refund though is that I used my colleagues Guo plug in and found the scripting to be not up to the job we'd need it for. Putting vol 1 and 2 together seems to be problematic. I ended up just using something else. In my view it won't compare with BBCSO ... not only is it not scripted as well (though BBCSO has it's own issues ... they all do, don't they .. nature of the beast etc) but it's too 'personal'.. if that makes sense. Anyway.. There's no real reason they can't give me a refund, they just don't want to. I will always favour companies who can be flexible - for context .. this is the 4th time I've asked for a refund in about 20 years.


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## rmak (Dec 11, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I do. I’m a big fan of all of Hans Josef’s stuff. They sound great and have a decent amount of pretty good and unique articulations. The UI is different than most generic ones, CCs are not always what one is used to, and indeed the walkthroughs, tutorials and manuals are just “not really there”. I was planning to do just that, i.e. create some content and share some of my experience with the libraries but unfortunately I got sidetracked by some personal problems in 2020. I hope I can do this early 2021. My advice in the mean time is to read the original thread on the Contemporary Solo Strings. There is just one real demo on YT / SoundCloud which does do the library justice. The Xsample woodwinds (Complete Part 1) are also brilliant by the way....
> 
> I highly recommend these strings, they excel at “modern chamber music” vibes and largely ignore everything cinematic, hybrid or hip. Quality product, pretty unique sounds. The Complete Part 4 solo strings are slightly older but do share the same design philosophy and have the same sound esthetic. So maybe also listen to some of the SoundCloud demos of that library.



Do you know if they ever go on sale besides BF? I am thinking about purchasing just the violin to try. Maybe I"ll end up purchasing one from studio quartet and then a bunch of other solo ones just to try haha. Sometimes, it is hard to know if something will work until you purchase and give it a go. I am still working on emotional and hope that with time, I'll get something beautiful out of it like the audio demos.


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## jbuhler (Dec 11, 2020)

rmak said:


> Do you know if they ever go on sale besides BF? I am thinking about purchasing just the violin to try. Maybe I"ll end up purchasing one from studio quartet and then a bunch of other solo ones just to try haha. Sometimes, it is hard to know if something will work until you purchase and give it a go. I am still working on emotional and hope that with time, I'll get something beautiful out of it like the audio demos.


XCSS are good instruments with a steeper learning curve than most. The GUI is not so much cluttered as much of it is not relevant, so there's no particular reason for it to be exposed in this way. I also don't like some of the choices about CCs, especially the strange implementation of CC11, which makes sharing midi with other instruments cumbersome unless you create a script to bypass the instruments' basic scripting. 

The sounds of the shorts are excellent, and lots of them. I've found the longs harder to manage, though that might be that I'm still learning how to use these instruments. The legato is good for scripted and it's fine for writing with, but not entirely convincing for final production. Here again, some of that might be the fact that I'm still learning how best to program these instruments effectively.


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## rmak (Dec 11, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> XCSS are good instruments with a steeper learning curve than most. The GUI is not so much cluttered as much of it is not relevant, so there's no particular reason for it to be exposed in this way. I also don't like some of the choices about CCs, especially the strange implementation of CC11, which makes sharing midi with other instruments cumbersome unless you create a script to bypass the instruments' basic scripting.
> 
> The sounds of the shorts are excellent, and lots of them. I've found the longs harder to manage, though that might be that I'm still learning how to use these instruments. The legato is good for scripted and it's fine for writing with, but not entirely convincing for final production. Here again, some of that might be the fact that I'm still learning how best to program these instruments effectively.



Thanks for the information. This is helpful. Do you happen to have any audio demos or completed works that you are willing to share featuring the library? Do you think it will work well with the emotional string series which may have more convincing legatos than XCSS? But then I guess it would be weird to use two different solo string instruments in a composition, unless you try to cover the different tones up a bit with more reverb or EQ.

And from what I have read, XCSS doesn't really work well together with orchestral string libraries? Even the drier ones like LASS and what will be the new MSS?


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## jbuhler (Dec 11, 2020)

rmak said:


> Thanks for the information. This is helpful. Do you happen to have any audio demos or completed works that you are willing to share featuring the library? Do you think it will work well with the emotional string series which may have more convincing legatos than XCSS? But then I guess it would be weird to use two different solo string instruments in a composition, unless you try to cover the different tones up a bit with more reverb or EQ.
> 
> And from what I have read, XCSS doesn't really work well together with orchestral string libraries? Even the drier ones like LASS and what will be the new MSS?


I haven’t tried XCSS with orchestra. I’ve had good luck mixing the violin, viola and cello with first desk violin from Spitfire Solo Strings. The XCSS played mostly shorts, SF instrument took the lyrical stuff. This started out for XCSS but I couldn’t get the lyrical tone I wanted for the first violin part. 

I’ll try to find something to send. I’m still in the process of migrating computers and one thing that is difficult at the moment is accessing non-current projects.


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## Tremendouz (Dec 12, 2020)

I still haven't found a cello I'm happy with (although I don't have all or even most of them).

Tina guo legato: amazing tone, sluggish legato, sometimes badly out of tune

Best service emotional cello: great tone, lots of articulations, but not a fan of the legato

Embertone blakus: amazingly flexible, I'm liking the legato but the tone isn't quite as beautiful as the others.

After listening to a bunch of demos, Chris Hein and 8dio Studio Solo Cello could probably fit my taste but my budget is finite and CSW is around the corner.


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## javarnayu (Dec 12, 2020)

Bohemian Cello


SOUL CAPTURE SERIES - THE WORLDS FIRST CELLO VIRTUAL PERFORMER THE VIRTUAL INSTRUMENT THAT BECAME A REAL BOY Creating music has never been so easy, with the help of our Virtual Performer making split second decisions based on your playing input, inspiring you to write lyrical lines like never...




www.virharmonic.com





I've only been learning to play the cello for three years and I'm in love with this library. From my humble opinion I think it's the one that sounds the best by far.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 12, 2020)

rmak said:


> Do you know if they ever go on sale besides BF?


They did not go on sale this BF, nor any other BF. For the fun of it I ran a thread two weeks ago. Hans Josef did hint he may do a Spring 21 sale. The expected discount is in the 20-30% range.



https://vi-control.net/community/threads/is-there-a-2020-xsample-holiday-sale-yet.101330/


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## muziksculp (Dec 12, 2020)

I'm waiting for VSL Synchron Strings Solo Cello


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## anjwilson (Dec 12, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> I'm waiting for VSL Synchron Strings Solo Cello



And I'm waiting for Embertone's Yo-Yo Ma Cello (and maybe also their oboe and concert flute)


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## doctoremmet (Dec 12, 2020)

I am waiting for the @Ben Osterhouse Solo Cello library, with nothing but gorgeous legato solo cello goodness. Recorded in Ben’s dad’s bedroom.


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## ism (Dec 12, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I am waiting for the @Ben Osterhouse Solo Cello library, with nothing but gorgeous legato solo cello goodness. Recorded in Ben’s dad’s bedroom.


Is that a real thing?

(Because otherwise, don't tease!)


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## doctoremmet (Dec 12, 2020)

ism said:


> Is that a real thing?
> 
> (Because otherwise, don't tease!)


I may have made certain parts of this it all up


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## Marc555 (Dec 15, 2020)

So why isn't SWAM cello practically not mentioned in this tread? 
My personal taste after having used both Chris Hein and Emotional Cello goes toward the former.
But I'd want participants of this forum's opinion on sample modeled cellos.
The amount of expressivity controlled via CC is compelling.


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## lettucehat (Dec 15, 2020)

Probably because it just fundamentally sounds bad. Even in the best hands SWAM just sounds 100% synthetic, much worse than the violin and viola. Arche Cello and Friktion both sound better, though they aren't necessarily as controllable.


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## muziksculp (Dec 15, 2020)

The major weakness of modeled Strings is their *Timbre*. This needs to be dramatically improved.

Non of them sound very good, and convincing.

On the other hand, their playability, and agility of smoothly transitioning/morphing between articulations as needed when you play them is where they excel over Sample based Strings. Plus much more control over real time Vibrato parameters.


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## muziksculp (Dec 15, 2020)

Just listen to how bad the timbre of the SWAM solo cello sounds here : It sounds like a sawtooth synth wave at some points of the performance. (purely Poor Timbre).






Here is some Solo Cello with Timbre, it's like a breath of fresh air after listening to the SWAM version  :


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## Marc555 (Dec 16, 2020)

Is there a methodology we could agree on to compare cello libraries? i.e
- timbre/realism
- articulations
- CC control
- friendly GUI
and other features you might consider.


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## Marc555 (Dec 16, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Just listen to how bad the timbre of the SWAM solo cello sounds here : It sounds like a sawtooth synth wave at some points of the performance. (purely Poor Timbre).
> Here is some Solo Cello with Timbre, it's like a breath of fresh air after listening to the SWAM version


That's why I hired a real musician for my last 4 pieces. The only convincing vsti solo instrument I could keep is the piano.


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## muziksculp (Dec 16, 2020)

Marc555 said:


> That's why I hired a real musician for my last 4 pieces. The only convincing vsti solo instrument is the piano.



If SWAM had a beautiful timbre, it would have been a great physically modeled instrument. That's what it needs. I hope Audio Modeling can dramatically improve the timbre of their SWAM Solo Strings in the next update. Although, I'm not very optimistic that will happen.


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## AudioLoco (Dec 16, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Just listen to how bad the timbre of the SWAM solo cello sounds here : It sounds like a sawtooth synth wave at some points of the performance. (purely Poor Timbre).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What is that huge controller that woman is using? 
Also, nice song.


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## muziksculp (Dec 16, 2020)

AudioLoco said:


> What is that huge controller that woman is using?
> Also, nice song.



That talented woman is using a Physically Modeled real Cello  and she is playing a Song by BACH.


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## Minsky (Dec 16, 2020)

Minsky said:


> Yes, 100% it does. I'm really annoyed tbh. The reason I asked for a refund though is that I used my colleagues Guo plug in and found the scripting to be not up to the job we'd need it for. Putting vol 1 and 2 together seems to be problematic. I ended up just using something else. In my view it won't compare with BBCSO ... not only is it not scripted as well (though BBCSO has it's own issues ... they all do, don't they .. nature of the beast etc) but it's too 'personal'.. if that makes sense. Anyway.. There's no real reason they can't give me a refund, they just don't want to. I will always favour companies who can be flexible - for context .. this is the 4th time I've asked for a refund in about 20 years.




In the interest of being fair I am sharing a response from Cinesamples support. In it they explain why they feel they cannot refund on purchases: 

"The serial codes for libraries that are encoded for the free Kontakt Player are not generated by our system. Getting a library to work with the free Kontakt Player and sit in the Libraries tab of Kontakt requires getting the libraries specially encoded by Native Instruments and also requires the purchase of serial codes created by Native Instruments. We receive a list of serial codes from NI that we dispense from our system at the point of purchase when the EULA has been accepted. Downloading the product is not required for the EULA to take effect. Once our system releases a serial code that we purchased from Native Instruments, we cannot remotely deactivate or reclaim this code. This is why our policy is firm and we cannot offer refunds, returns, or exchanges.

For this reason, we try to make as much information as possible about our libraries' strengths and intended functionalities available before the point of purchase." - Cinesamples Support.


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## Mark Schmieder (Dec 16, 2020)

FYI for those interested in Emotional Cello (I personally am no longer interested in it), those hard-to-use bucks/points at Audio Plug-in Deals can be used currently to bring its price down quite a bit. Not sure for how long, as that site no longer offers ISW coupons and a lot of other stuff they used to do.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 16, 2020)

How’s the Cremona Quartet one? Sounds pretty nice by the single demo. I have Emotional Celllo but not sure I love their patch / articulation approach.

Or May be time finally to get CSSS or Spitfire Solo Strings.


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