# VEP7 Strange Latency Issues



## Alec Roberts (Mar 13, 2022)

Hi there, 

I’m having latency issues using VEP7 on a networked Mac mini, DAW is logic on my laptop (tech specs all below). This is a new set up for me so haven’t had much time to test and optimise but hoping you can help.

Explainer: I use CSS, CSW, CSB so have track offset delays on everything in Logic, with some pretty hefty delays on the legato patches to account for these libraries. 

*The Issue:* Latency will literally change on specific instruments after a period of use. e.g. I have a woodwind figure in rhythmic unison which I have to manually move MIDI to get it _sounding_ together (totally off-grid as I was still integrating CSW and getting the offset delays correct in Logic). Then I come back to the exact same untouched MIDI several minutes later and one or two instruments are out of time again, almost as if the latency they're experiencing somewhere between firing up on the drives, and finally getting to the output in logic has increased in that period or working. 

Extremely bizarre but hoping you may have some ideas and troubleshooting suggestions!

My thoughts:
- It could either be VEP latency issues if not optimised - is it normal to have individual instances experience more latency than others and it randomly change?
- Something in the Kontakt settings as all of my instruments are running through Kontakt 5 in VEP7.
- Logic potentially throwing its toys out the pram when dealing with track delay although I didn’t have this issue when I was running a similar template directly through logic (before I incorporated VEP7 into my set up).

I’m hoping for some ideas, troubleshooting, even just optimising my Kontakt and VEP7 settings. All help greatly appreciated!


Tech specs:

Network (slave) computer:
Mac mini 2018 3.2 Ghz Intel Core i7 64GB RAM OS: Mojave (v10.14.6)

Running Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 (v7.0.1120-Nov 23 2021) with one instance per instrument (see attached image - I read this is advised for VEP use with Logic)

*VEP settings are in attached image below*

ALL instruments hosted through Kontakt 5 (v5.8.1) with main strings, brass and woodwind all as Cinematic Studio Series libraries hence the need to for track offset delays to account for the legato patches.

*Kontakt settings are in attached image below*

All samples on Samsung EVO 1TB SSD drives in a Black Magic dock USBC 10Gb/s direct to Mac mini

DAW: Logic 10.4.8 running the template on…

MacBook Pro (15’ 2018) 2.9GHz Intel Core i9 32GB RAM OS:Mojave (v10.14.6)

Network connection via ethernet which is currently running through an ANKER expansion bank (various USBC connections for MBP drives as well as HDMI for display)

I’ve tried the ethernet ‘direct’ into one of the macbook pro’s USBC ports (daisy-chained ethernet to thunderbolt, thunderbolt to USB-C mac adapters seems to be only solution) but it doesn’t seem to be any different to running the ethernet into the ANKER expansion bank.

Thanks, 
Alec


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## synergy543 (Mar 13, 2022)

I would check the host buffer settings (Logic), as well as the Vienna Ensemble buffer settings. These are what affect the latency AFAIK. Try getting both as low as possible without the sound breaking up. My DAW is usually 256 and Vienna Ensemble is on 1 (but it varies).


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## Alec Roberts (Mar 15, 2022)

Thanks synergy, I've tried playing around with the buffer among other things but haven't found anything that seems to solve this specific problem. 

I've linked below a video of me demonstrating this issue with some short strings playing a scale. It includes Vln1 and Vln2 in octaves, each are in their own instance in the server on my slave mac mini. As I switch around the tracks in the multi (usually set to other articulations in my full template) the latency seems to change randomly. The round-trip latency displayed in the bottom right hand corner of each plugin window seems to change. I'm not sure if this is relevant but it was something I noticed.


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## synergy543 (Mar 15, 2022)

In your example video I see there is a buffer delay of 2048 (46ms) and CSS has an inherent latency delay (about 60ms) and your audio interface has another delay (likely at least 10-20ms). So it could just be that all of these are adding up, and that would be my guess. Faster computers can run at lower latency settings without breaking up. However, with some adjustments, I would think your computer should be able to get the job done.

Richard Ames has made several videos with very good explanations about computers and latency and he discusses various solutions. I would highly recommend watching the one below as well as his other more recent videos. These are an absolute goldmine on the subject.


Also, David Kudell has made a database on latency compensation for various libraries that I would also recommend.





Negative Track Delay Database / Spreadsheet


Heres a direct link to the database: Link EDIT: Ok, here's a Google sheet I've created. If you're interested in contributing values for some instruments (and know how to use a Spreadsheet), let me know and I can give you write access. ---- Original post: Is there a database anywhere of...




vi-control.net





What I would do is go back to the very basics of your setup and test each component one at a time. First just Logic and your audio interface and get that working reasonably well with a low latency sample (maybe a perc clave). Then, I'd add VE Pro and get that working with the lowest possible latency. Only after these are all working reasonably well would I bring back CSS and try to adjust that for the lowest realtime playback. This way, you can nail down exactly where the most egregious problem spots exist and then address them.

Slow strings will almost always have a long attack time and you will likely need to compensate with your playing ahead of the notes if you want to play in real time but the performance of each library can vary quite a bit. Some are more playable than others. With some practice though, it's not too difficult to learn to play ahead of the notes. Alternatively, you can play with another sample and then replace it with the desired one and adjust the note to compensate for the delay.


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## Alec Roberts (Mar 15, 2022)

Hi Synergy, thanks again for getting back to me, I appreciate it. 

That Richard Ames video is great, I've seen in before and will go through that again to see if I can deal with the more general latency issue I'm experiencing...

However, I've discovered my problem is two-fold (at least), the first of which I've started a separate thread on found here:

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/logic-multi-instrument-track-delay-issue.122585/

I'm experiencing very strange behaviour from Logic when using track delay on multi-instruments. Unless I'm doing something wrong or overlooking something simple then this is quite unusual.

The second is a more general latency issue which I expect will be easier to fix once I've dealt with the former. I've been using various CSS libraries for a while so very used to compensating for their library's build in delay but the master for DAW / networked for VEP is a new set up for me so I expect some of the issues I'm encountering are due to this. All your suggestions are great and I'll look into them, thank you!


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