# Improving Mac Mini 2018 Performance



## SyMTiK (Apr 18, 2021)

So a couple years back, I switched back to using Apple products and Logic Pro. At the time, I didn't quite have the budget for a Mac Pro unless I wanted to live off of stale toast and ice water for the remainder of my time at college. The new Mac Mini caught my eye, as I could get just about the same specs as the PC I was using at the time for a fairly reasonable price. The one I got has the maxed out processor, 64 gb of ram, 1tb ssd.

However, I found that the performance has never quite been as buttery smooth as my PC was, and I find myself often battling with audio dropouts and overheating issues. Certain libraries and plugins are worse culprits than others, particularly newer plugins with flashy GUI's. 

What boggles my mind though is that I know for a fact I see other users using the same exact spec Mac Mini as I, with far better performance, running large sessions with tons of processing, AND screen recording at the same time. 

I run a 4k monitor at native resolution, and I know that the Mac Mini uses integrated graphics which eats up a lot of processing. I do have a spare AMD graphics card lying around, and have been eyeing an external enclosure, but am wary of spending 300-400 dollars on something that may or may not improve my situation if there are other fixes I can try first. 

I am still on Mojave, perhaps updating my OS and Logic and all my plugins might help? 

Also, I am running multiple external drives as well as the onboard drive for sample streaming. Don't know if this effects it, as I never really notice my drive meters spiking, only ever my CPU meter.

I never run sessions at a buffer size lower than 512, its either that or 1024 and still the issue persists.


----------



## gamma-ut (Apr 18, 2021)

The 4K monitor does tend to eat into the overall memory bandwidth because of the way the Mac Mini's graphics unit is set up. Have you tried running the monitor at a lower resolution to see how it fares?

Also, check whether plugin graphics are using up a lot of CPU cycles. If windows are open and running animations some of them can be really intensive, but drop to a fraction if their windows are shut down when you don't need to see them. This is particularly apparent if in Retina rather than in native tiny-text mode because Core Graphics does a lot of behind the scenes stuff and doesn't seem all that efficient at it.

External graphics does make a difference but not always a dramatic difference. Some of those really graphics-intensive plugins use the CPU rather than the GPU for rendering and so don't get a boost from an external card. It only has the benefit of relieving pressure on the main system bus, which does at least allow for lower latency work.

But I'd test to see how running the monitor at a lower resolution affects things first to see how much difference the integrated graphics are making. SwitchResX is quite a handy tool for doing these experiments. Obviously, it will all look a lot a lot fuzzier but you can switch to a lower resolution while on the DAW and then out for other things that aren't so performance intensive without doing a lot of fiddling in System Preferences.


----------



## marclawsonmusic (Apr 18, 2021)

Which audio interface are you using?


----------



## SyMTiK (Apr 18, 2021)

gamma-ut said:


> The 4K monitor does tend to eat into the overall memory bandwidth because of the way the Mac Mini's graphics unit is set up. Have you tried running the monitor at a lower resolution to see how it fares?
> 
> Also, check whether plugin graphics are using up a lot of CPU cycles. If windows are open and running animations some of them can be really intensive, but drop to a fraction if their windows are shut down when you don't need to see them. This is particularly apparent if in Retina rather than in native tiny-text mode because Core Graphics does a lot of behind the scenes stuff and doesn't seem all that efficient at it.
> 
> ...


Thank you for these tips! I will try out SwitchResX to see if it makes some difference.


----------



## SyMTiK (Apr 18, 2021)

marclawsonmusic said:


> Which audio interface are you using?


UAD Apollo Twin MKII Duo, Thunderbolt Version with a Focusrite Clarett Octopre hooked up via ADAT, clock source coming from the Focusrite

I still had the same issues before and after having the Focusrite so I don't think that would be causing any issues


----------



## marclawsonmusic (Apr 18, 2021)

FWIW, I have an Apollo Twin and am able to run at 128 buffer on a late 2013 iMac i7 32GB RAM. If I couldn't do the same (or better) on a newer Mac Mini, I would be frustrated too.

Maybe this graphics thing will point you in the right direction.


----------



## SupremeFist (Apr 18, 2021)

Any resolution apart from 4k or retina 1080p will result in _worse_ performance. I'd check what other processes you have running (eg Dropbox is a total CPU hog and should be disabled from syncing while working in the DAW).


----------



## wayne_rowley (Apr 18, 2021)

Out of curiosity, what size projects are you currently running? What is your VI count when you get dropouts and overheating, and what plugins and libraries are they.


----------



## gamma-ut (Apr 18, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Any resolution apart from 4k or retina 1080p will result in _worse_ performance.


This is not necessarily the case. If the monitor supports the lower resolution natively, the computer won't expend CPU cycles interpolating it. SwitchResX also makes it possible to easily disable Retina/HiDPI for a given resolution which removes the need for Core Graphics to do any interpolation.

Also, the main issue with the Mac Mini is that the framebuffer is in main memory: having the machine fetch 4K's worth of graphics per frame is a lot heavier than 1080p (if not running Retina) and it's this that conflicts with Logic. It's not ideal as stuff gets fuzzy onscreen but at least provides some ability to see how graphics is affecting things.


----------



## SupremeFist (Apr 18, 2021)

gamma-ut said:


> : having the machine fetch 4K's worth of graphics per frame is a lot heavier than 1080p (if not running Retina) and it's this that conflicts with Logic.


I don't think this does conflict with Logic though, as I run 4k native with great performance, hence my thought that it might be something else on OP's system. I didn't know all that about SwitchResX, though, looks cool!


----------



## SyMTiK (Apr 18, 2021)

wayne_rowley said:


> Out of curiosity, what size projects are you currently running? What is your VI count when you get dropouts and overheating, and what plugins and libraries are they.


Depends but I am typically averaging between 60-100 tracks per session. A recent project where I was running into headaches had 60 tracks, 40 of which were VI's. I was using Cremona Quartet, Action Strikes, Damage, Una Corda, SCS, Hollywood Brass, Arturia Analog Lab, with about 20 vocal tracks. Used VEPro for all strings on PC slave minus Cremona Quartet, everything else running in the project. Using Soundtoys, FabFilter, Izotope, Slate Digital plugins for processing across the project. Running about 85-90% CPU on 1024, all cores firing. Anything less that 1024, and it won't play at all, first core will spike at 100% and stall the project. Certain plugins in particular that cause huge CPU Spikes even in very small sessions are Get Good Drums libraries, Cremona Quartet, Xfer Serum, and Izotope Plugins.

For reference, my PC has a 6 Core I7 8700k with 64gb of ram. Essentially the same processing power, memory, and SSD's, and I was able to run sessions with more than 100 tracks at 256 with much fewer issues. Granted since I have switched to Mac I have started doing way more processing and mangling to sounds than I used to, but still stands that I have seen other uses get much better performance running similar sized sessions and processing to what I have. 

I believe Dan Keen has the same spec Mac Mini as me (according to a video I saw from him recently), and he is doing quite a bit of processing in this video as well as screen capturing, and the project runs smoothly.


----------



## gamma-ut (Apr 18, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I don't think this does conflict with Logic though, as I run 4k native with great performance, hence my thought that it might be something else on OP's system. I didn't know all that about SwitchResX, though, looks cool!


Is this on a Mac Mini 2018? The integrated graphics on this are different to most of the other machines because the CPU and GPU have to arbitrate for the same memory bus. This does not make DAWs happy in memory-bound situations such as streaming though it's worth experimenting to find out if it is memory contention that is leading to problems in a specific case.

I've got an eGPU setup but that's with two monitors, which does tip it over the edge.


----------



## SupremeFist (Apr 18, 2021)

gamma-ut said:


> Is this on a Mac Mini 2018? The integrated graphics on this are different to most of the other machines because the CPU and GPU have to arbitrate for the same memory bus. This does not make DAWs happy in memory-bound situations such as streaming though it's worth experimenting to find out if it is memory contention that is leading to problems in a specific case.
> 
> I've got an eGPU setup but that's with two monitors, which does tip it over the edge.


Yep (2020 i7 64Gb). Runs just great on 4k but chokes way earlier on any scaled resolutions.


----------



## SupremeFist (Apr 18, 2021)

SyMTiK said:


> Depends but I am typically averaging between 60-100 tracks per session. A recent project where I was running into headaches had 60 tracks, 40 of which were VI's. I was using Cremona Quartet, Action Strikes, Damage, Una Corda, SCS, Hollywood Brass, Arturia Analog Lab, with about 20 vocal tracks. Used VEPro for all strings on PC slave minus Cremona Quartet, everything else running in the project. Using Soundtoys, FabFilter, Izotope, Slate Digital plugins for processing across the project. Running about 85-90% CPU on 1024, all cores firing. Anything less that 1024, and it won't play at all, first core will spike at 100% and stall the project. Certain plugins in particular that cause huge CPU Spikes even in very small sessions are Get Good Drums libraries, Cremona Quartet, Xfer Serum, and Izotope Plugins.
> 
> For reference, my PC has a 6 Core I7 8700k with 64gb of ram. Essentially the same processing power, memory, and SSD's, and I was able to run sessions with more than 100 tracks at 256 with much fewer issues. Granted since I have switched to Mac I have started doing way more processing and mangling to sounds than I used to, but still stands that I have seen other uses get much better performance running similar sized sessions and processing to what I have.
> 
> I believe Dan Keen has the same spec Mac Mini as me (according to a video I saw from him recently), and he is doing quite a bit of processing in this video as well as screen capturing, and the project runs smoothly.



Do you know about the "trick" of resting on a no-output audio track and stuff like that? Have you made sure multi-threading is turned off in kontakt (iirc it conflicts with the way Logic likes to assign cores)? Etc... I have sessions of the size you describe which hum along at 45-50% CPU so I feel like it must be a config issue somewhere....


----------



## SyMTiK (Apr 18, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> Do you know about the "trick" of resting on a no-output audio track and stuff like that? Have you made sure multi-threading is turned off in kontakt (iirc it conflicts with the way Logic likes to assign cores)? Etc... I have sessions of the size you describe which hum along at 45-50% CPU so I feel like it must be a config issue somewhere....


Yup know about the no output track. Will check on Kontakt multi threading. Thats what I'm figuring is it must be some sort of configuration issue. 

Would updating OS make any difference you think? I know the latest version of Logic requires at least Catalina, might give that a go.


----------



## SupremeFist (Apr 18, 2021)

SyMTiK said:


> Yup know about the no output track. Will check on Kontakt multi threading. Thats what I'm figuring is it must be some sort of configuration issue.
> 
> Would updating OS make any difference you think? I know the latest version of Logic requires at least Catalina, might give that a go.


I'm still on Mojave and Logic 10.5.1 but it can't hurt to update if you have have no reason not to.


----------



## Geoff Grace (Apr 18, 2021)

As for overheating, the best position for your Mac mini is with the vent on top. This naturally helps the cool air to sink into your Mac, pushing the hot air out.

It may not be a cosmetically attractive solution; but it allows you to easily access the power switch and ports, so it's certainly practical.

There are inexpensive stands available to keep the Mac stable when positioned on edge. Here's one for $23.99 at Amazon:




Best,

Geoff


----------



## Marsen (Apr 18, 2021)

Mac Mini 2018 i7 6 core 64 Gb, only external (6) ssd's for samples, 3x1080p Monitors and UAD Apollo Twin II TB here. No problems with drop outs.Logic Buffer size 256, Mojave.


----------



## SyMTiK (Apr 18, 2021)

Marsen said:


> Mac Mini 2018 i7 6 core 64 Gb, only external (6) ssd's for samples, 3x1080p Monitors and UAD Apollo Twin II TB here. No problems with drop outs.Logic Buffer size 256, Mojave.


You have the exact same setup as me essentially, sadly don't know what is causing my issues :( currently backing up my machine and then updating OS, Logic, and plugins. Hopefully will see some promising results. I know this is a capable machine, but I also know there are others with the same experience as mine, trying to figure out why exactly mine hasn't been performing as well as it should


----------



## gsilbers (Apr 18, 2021)

SyMTiK said:


> So a couple years back, I switched back to using Apple products and Logic Pro. At the time, I didn't quite have the budget for a Mac Pro unless I wanted to live off of stale toast and ice water for the remainder of my time at college. The new Mac Mini caught my eye, as I could get just about the same specs as the PC I was using at the time for a fairly reasonable price. The one I got has the maxed out processor, 64 gb of ram, 1tb ssd.
> 
> However, I found that the performance has never quite been as buttery smooth as my PC was, and I find myself often battling with audio dropouts and overheating issues. Certain libraries and plugins are worse culprits than others, particularly newer plugins with flashy GUI's.
> 
> ...


One thing that’s not that apparent Apple products is that the updates might have firmware updates.

if I’m not mistaken there was a wierd refresh of 2018 models or 2020 models but not sure. Where there was small spec change.
Sometimes it’s cuz they fix something. But not sure.

I’m in Big Sur and works fine.

also what external drives are u using? Ssd, hhd, usb2 etc.


----------



## Marsen (Apr 18, 2021)

SyMTiK said:


> You have the exact same setup as me essentially, sadly don't know what is causing my issues :( currently backing up my machine and then updating OS, Logic, and plugins. Hopefully will see some promising results. I know this is a capable machine, but I also know there are others with the same experience as mine, trying to figure out why exactly mine hasn't been performing as well as it should


I did had other issues before ( not performance related), which all got solved through 2 security updates for Mojave. 
One thing, what scares me a bit, is the heat ( it can get really hot).
That's why I bought a ventilator inc. stand for mac mini in winter.
Haven't tested it yet in summertime.

Also, I would never stress the system with sample steaming from internal OS ssd.
But this may just be old school experience from back in the days.

I'm sure you know this, but just in case: Software monitoring in logic off?
I'm on Logic 10.5.1


----------



## soapmak3r (Oct 21, 2022)

I just configured a 2018 i7 Mac Mini, with 32GB of RAM for audio. When I tested it with Cubase 11 and Studio One 5.5, I was surprised at how poorly it was performing at 128 samples. 
Constant clicking/crackling, and audio drop outs with just a single instance of Komplete Kontrol running Kontakt 6. I had to increase the sample buffer to 256 to get relatively stable performance.

For contrast, I have a hackintosh that I built, which also runs 32GB of DDR4 2666Mhz RAM and an i7 8700, and it can run stably at 32 samples in Cubase 12, and 16 samples in Studio One 5.5.

The main difference between these 2 systems is that the desktop machine has a AMD RX570 8GB graphics card in it. That machine did not always have the graphics card though, and it always performed well at low latencies.
The graphics card was added in to allow OBS to screen capture DAW tutorials and product demonstrations.

Running OBS on the 2018 Mac Mini caused the fans to ramp up considerably, and the low latency performance to become unusable. 

I am pretty shocked at how badly the i7 2018 Mac Mini is performing, given the specs. It seems like a bit of a lemon when compared to the performance of a fanless M1 Macbook Air. I can see why Apple ditched Intel, and am glad that they did.

My audio interface is also an Apollo Twin MK2 thunderbolt. Is it possible that the infamous 'T2' chip is the cause of the poor performance?
I am also running Loopback 2, which I use to route the audio from the DAW into OBS.


----------



## marius_dm (Oct 21, 2022)

I’d hate it to have to run at 512 let alone 1024. I run most projects at 64 samples using my RME Digiface USB hooked up to an Apogee Element 24 and a bunch of Profire 2626s through Adat.
I would try with a different audio interface before considering other things. For reference I’m on a MacBook Pro M1 16GB.

Edit: I just saw you are running at 90% CPU? I would take that down before jumping to conclusions (freeze tracks, commit to your ideas), at that load no system works optimally.


----------



## Marsen (Oct 21, 2022)

Which Monitor resolution?


----------



## Berdinskikh (Oct 21, 2022)

The point of all the observations at this topic is that Core Audio (though having its own brilliances) is half as performant at the lower buffer block settings as ASIO. Heat and video comes into play after that fact.


----------

