# Looking for advice - Grand Piano Sample Library - General Purpose - Versatile Applications - Yow!



## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

Halló 

I hope that everyone has been doing well and keeping their spirits up over the last months!



A question here for piano based composers who use one piano a lot of the time. Not only piano solo but also in dense mixes. I am indeed in search of one general purpose grand piano.




*7 Qualities I am looking for:*


1. Realism

2. Good user interface with elegant controls. I am not interested in controlling 8 different microphone perspectives for example 

3. Not a character piano but a more general use grand piano that is versatile. Vanilla, not rainbow swirl with a twist 

4. Not "cut your head off" bright attack that makes it sound like a fake sample library but nice rich tone that is articulate enough to reveal the details in the playing, especially of faster passages 

5. Piano needs to sound good by itself played solo but also sound good within the context of a mix with drums, bass, guitar, vocals and other instruments you might find in a rock music context.

6. Reasonable size download. Um...30GB is not cool for a single piano.

7. Not so CPU intensive that I will be eating Rice Crips instead of making music.




*EDIT: This is in the vein of the kind of piano sound I am looking for:*






*Background:*

The pianos that I have already are mostly character pianos - NI Una Corda, Spitfire Audio OACT & LABS Soft Piano, Soundiron Emotional piano.

The real piano that I use at my music school is a Yamaha concert grand. It's been played a lot by students and is over 25 years old so the tone has mellowed quite a bit. I think it actually sounds like a cross between a Yamaha and a Steinway. It doesn't have the typical super sharp plucky sounding attack that new Yamaha pianos have.

While the piano sample libraries I have work well for softer more delicate music where the piano is quite naked by itself, they do not work at all and get lost in a dense mix of drums, bass, guitar and vocals. For this reason, I also have a more general purpose full open sounding grand piano library - the Galaxy Vintage D piano. This library is quite old but it was my first library that I purchased based on reading here in the forum that a majority of people found it to be their go-to piano library even though it was old. That was a couple years ago when I was reading those posts about Galaxy Vintage D. These days, it seems that the NI Grandeur has taken the Galaxy Vintage D's place as the most popular general purpose vanilla piano. Correct me if I am wrong.



*What is happening now:*

Back in the spring, I purchased some excellent Spitfire Audio libraries. What I am finding these days is that the Galaxy Vintage D is not really standing up. It doesn't sit well against other instruments that have more realism and life to them. The note articulations on greater velocities where there are harder attack characteristics make this instrument sound like plastic which gives it away as sounding so much like a sample library. As such, I am looking to replace my Galaxy Vintage D with a better general purpose grand piano. And yes, I know how to adjust velocity curve to get the most human response out of piano libraires. I have tried tweaking the Galaxy Vintage D every which way and it is just the inherent sound of this library that is not making me happy. It sounds very fake and unremarkable.



*Option Anxiety:*

I have not read the entire forum for every thread about piano libraries. I am sure there are many more threads than I can keep my eyes open for but I have read enough to make a short list of ones that seem like they might be a good fit for me.


*1. NI Noire
2. NI Grandeur
3. Cinematic Studio Piano*


These are all on sale right now, which is great. Talk me into one of them please! Or talk me out of two of them! Or, talk me out of all of them because you think there is something better as a general purpose grand piano for my applications.




Takk, Thank you friends,
Ásta


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

Noire is a Yamaha yet does not suffer from the overly bright knockout criterion. Of the ones you mention as options I like it the best. It also has the felt option and FWIW particles. And one gets to feel the vibes of the Funkhaus like one is there with mister Frahm haha.

For some added character piano, maybe add Versillian Joachim’s Piano, a very old slightly out of tune Steinway B. I also quite like the Sampletekk stuff. Their White Grand or Rain Piano. Because sometimes those three pianos you mention are way too decent and well mannered and not so adventurous. And they can be heard on many a score, which tends to become boring and predictable to my ears. Just my 2 cents


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 22, 2020)

I have found that the problem of the "feels like a real piano by itself without it being a character piano" part doesn't go well with a small storage footprint or budget. Part of the problem is that everyone has they're own idea of what a real piano sounds like. To accommodate that, you need a slew of controls and mic positions. Personally, I like to hear as little of the room as possible for practicing (commonly known as the "player" position) and a bit of room for a mix, depending on my performance. For that alone, you need multiple mics, which adds several Gb of storage and $ for price.

If I would make a suggestion: look at the VSL's Synchron piano's. They're not cheap and come with a rather large footprint, but sound absolutely wonderful and, to me, as real as it gets. It's a bit of an investment, but could help you stay away from the endless piano-safari a lot of us have been on (a.k.a. try and buy endless piano libraries!).

Good luck,

Mark


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

Also, don’t listen to me and instead read everything Craig @CGR has to say on this subject.

Also @Marcus Millfield mentions the VSL piano, and although I do not speak from personal experience, I’d wager I DID read almost any and all piano threads on this forum because I have no life, and VSL does seem to be considered the cream of the crop. And then there’s the Pianoteq 7 brigade that will come in here and tell you that the modeled piano has way smoother crossfades and plays way less bumpy than any sample ever could hope it would. And they are likely right. But you don’t strike me as a perfectionist on that level, and more as a “the sound has to have character” type person. But what do I know. I’ll shut up now and watch the thread unfold.


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## Sovereign (Nov 22, 2020)

Synchron pianos +1 from me too.


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## tc9000 (Nov 22, 2020)

simple sam samples signature grand all the way.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

Yes @Marcus Millfield. I suppose I am on Piano-Safari!

Thank you for the suggestions so far everyone.

@doctoremmet I believe you - that you have read the entire VI Control website from start to finish 


*Regarding Noire:*

My only concern after listening to many examples online of it being played is a fear that the note articulation is going to get lost in the mix. Noire seems to have a very round attack, uncharacteristic of Yamaha pianos. It seems to also have a lot of low end thump in the hammer sound. I am afraid that for busier piano parts, Noire might start to sound very clunky due to it's kind of "Heavy" sound. It is not quite the "NI GIANT" piano but it does seem to have a touch of that really heavy and thick sound. This is the thing that kind of makes me lean towards the Grandeur because it seems to have a more balanced sound without so much weight in the bottom end. 



*Synchron:*

I will check out Synchron Pianos VSL closely. I have seen that one pop up lots in my reading so I am aware of the popularity of this one. The other one that comes up often is the Cinepiano from Cinesamples. It is more a question of whether or not I have the time and desire to invest into such beastly creatures. I must read the specs!



*Physical Modeling Pianos:*

Before I joined the VI-Control forum, I performed a very detailed shootout comparing PianoTeq to TruePianos. Personally, I found TruePianos to sound far more natural and I found PianoTeq to sound quite bad. The attack on the notes in PianoTeq is like plastic balls are hammering the strings and I could not do anything to modify the sound of it, to make it work for my ears. I actually purchased TruePianos because it sounds quite good for the money it costs. The Atlantis and Diamond modules in True Pianos sound as good or better than the Galaxy Vintage D that I am looking to replace.


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## CGR (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Halló
> 
> I hope that everyone has been doing well and keeping their spirits up over the last months!
> 
> ...


My first thought based on your criteria is this (and at around 65% off at the moment, a real bargain):









Scoring Piano


Visit the post for more.




www.fluffyaudio.com





3 mic sets and good level of control but still manageable with RAM and hard drive space (runs fine off a 7200rpm HDD). The demos give a good indication of its sound quality and suitability in different contexts.

Of the 3 options you listed, I'd go for Noire over The Grandeur, based on realism of tone and flexibility. CSP has a really convincing tone, but no release samples which limits its use in faster playing and staccato passages. I have and use all 3 (actually "had" all 3 - I sold my Grandeur license a few years ago).

Hope that helps.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

CGR said:


> My first thought based on your criteria is this (and at around 65% off at the moment, a real bargain):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Given my undying love for Steinway B’s I fully endorse this. Although the Simple Sam piano also was one of the best releases of 2020 for me. Bang for the buck and a great tone! But like I said: listen to Craig.


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## Richard Wilkinson (Nov 22, 2020)

Pianoteq! I know you've mentioned it, but give version 7 a go. It's crazy versatile and sounds very good.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> I’ll shut up now


Somehow I never do, do I?


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## CGR (Nov 22, 2020)

Also, Impact Soundworks Pearl Concert Grand Yamaha C7 is very good, and highly realistic (although the Hall mics fix in version 2.4 is still a work in progress). I'd be happy to render a MIDI file with Pearl Concert Grand or the others mentioned if you'd like to assess them with your own music.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

CGR said:


> My first thought based on your criteria is this (and at around 65% off at the moment, a real bargain):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you CGR. It is nice that you have the experience with these piano instruments.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Somehow I never do, do I?


This is okay Doctor Emmet. You are allowed to speak as much as the Gods allows it.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

Richard Wilkinson said:


> Pianoteq! I know you've mentioned it, but give version 7 a go. It's crazy versatile and sounds very good.


I will check out version 7. The last time I tried it out, it was almost on version 6 and it left me feeling cold and longing for something it could not reach.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

tc9000 said:


> simple sam samples signature grand all the way.


*The Simple Sam*

I do like his name. Is he that simple?

What is the catch with this one? All of these pianos seem to have certain shortcomings or faults?

The demos sound excellent on the website. Sounds like a real piano. 

Is Simple Sammy a Steinway or a Yammy? 


How does Simple Sam compare to Noire or The Grandeur?


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> How does Simple Sam compare to Noire or The Grandeur?


I like it a whole lot better. As @Simeon said it, this one is somewhat of a paradigm shift - this much quality for such a small price.

It’s a Model D.


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## Anami (Nov 22, 2020)

Spectrasonics Keyscape is very responsive. I don't know every piano library out there but until know it's my personal favorite. You get more instruments as well but it's not cheap. Im a classical and jazz trained pianist and can highly recommend it.


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## tc9000 (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> *The Simple Sam*
> 
> I do like his name. Is he that simple?
> 
> ...



i like it because it feels alive (air quotes) and sounds like its in a beautiful room - something to do with release samples IDK how the tech works. the patches give you a nice range of flavours and finally, the developer is really humble and always pointing out it's limitations! haha


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## gussunkri (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> *The Simple Sam*
> 
> I do like his name. Is he that simple?
> 
> ...


Also, it seems to be recorded in the hall at Air studios (and is presumably the same piano sampled in Spitfire’s HZ piano) so blending with your Spitfire libraries should be easier. 

I ought to buy it myself but I’ve bought so many piano libraries and I feel I don’t deserve more.


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## Loïc D (Nov 22, 2020)

Noire has a lot of settings that can alter the character drastically.
Yet, to me, it falls more in the “character” piano category.
Not sure you could play classical or jazz on it. But I’m a lousy pianist...


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

gussunkri said:


> Also, it seems to be recorded in the hall at Air studios (and is presumably the same piano sampled in Spitfire’s HZ piano) so blending with your Spitfire libraries should be easier.


This


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

Loïc D said:


> Noire has a lot of settings that can alter the character drastically.
> Yet, to me, it falls more in the “character” piano category.
> Not sure you could play classical or jazz on it. But I’m a lousy pianist...


Thank you @Loïc D  

Do you prefer Noire over The Grandeur and Simple Sam?


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## dkochanski (Nov 22, 2020)

I was looking for the same thing as you outlined, something that was inspiring to play but not necessarily full of 'character'. I own most of the libraries currently available and you may think this is crazy, but I've found that the Modern U from VI Labs is fantastic. It's not a grand piano, but honestly has a richness and woody quality that I find missing from a lot of libraries. Originally I purchased it to use as a practice piano but it's become the piano I grab in my Logic autoload for composition and sketching out ideas. I just find it really serves it's purpose without getting in the way of itself. Other than that, Noire is also nice and probably worth checking out. Of course, the Synchron pianos are wonderful but at 100+ GB...yea, not small. Keyscape...na, although I like the electric pianos in that library. Anyway, hope this helps.


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## mikrokosmiko (Nov 22, 2020)

I purchased Noire yesterday. I also have Una corda, which I love, and other piano by VSL. I have been playing a couple of hours, and the sound is gorgeous, as the playability. You can tweak it as the una corda, and make it brighter. I spent most of the time with the felt version, but I am not sure if the normal one will be useful in any style, because even giving it more overtones it sounded a bit dark to me (I have not tried to EQ it yet, I’m playing out of the box).

I also think that pianoteq sounds like plastic, and I do not like Cinepiano, so maybe we have a similar taste regarding piano sounds. So, have you consider Heavyocities Ascend Piano? It has a big discount these days and sounds so good to me. I bought Noire instead only because of the felt option

(by the way, I made this last night with Noire 😍😍😍:


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## mikrokosmiko (Nov 22, 2020)

Oh yeah, I forgot that Ascend weighs like 60 gb...


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

mikrokosmiko said:


> I purchased Noire yesterday. I also have Una corda, which I love, and other piano by VSL. I have been playing a couple of hours, and the sound is gorgeous, as the playability. You can tweak it as the una corda, and make it brighter. I spent most of the time with the felt version, but I am not sure if the normal one will be useful in any style, because even giving it more overtones it sounded a bit dark to me (I have not tried to EQ it yet, I’m playing out of the box).
> 
> I also think that pianoteq sounds like plastic, and I do not like Cinepiano, so maybe we have a similar taste regarding piano sounds. So, have you consider Heavyocities Ascend Piano? It has a big discount these days and sounds so good to me. I bought Noire instead only because of the felt option
> 
> (by the way, I made this last night with Noire 😍😍😍:



Hello @mikrokosmiko

I have not tried the Heavyocities Ascned Piano. I will check that one out. More option anxiety 


Lovely late night keystrokes. Congratulations on your acquisition of Noire! The felt version of the library is excellent as one would expect from Nils Fram.

My concern with Noire is that I am looking at it as an option for delivering my general purpose concert grand sounds and I have been concerned about the Pure Noire piano being too dark based on the performance demos I have heard of it. For a Yamaha, it sounds quite dark to my ears with a very rounded off tone and heavy hammers. I have seen people write that you can tweak Noire and make it sound however you want because it is extremely versatile. I have my doubts about that.

The Simple Sam piano on the other hand sounds incredibly realistic and almost exactly what I would be looking for in an All Purpose piano but Simple Sam Signature Piano also sounds very very bright and that bright sound seems to be built into the samples of the close mics and the room mics.

I suppose I am already starting to lean towards Noire and Simple Sam but concerned that one might be too dark and the other might be too bright.

And then there is the Grandeur that sounds like it lives right in the middle between dark and bright which would be perfect but I see people saying that The Grandeur does not sound that great compared to some newer offerings in the same price range.


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## mikrokosmiko (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Hello @mikrokosmiko
> 
> I have not tried the Heavyocities Ascned Piano. I will check that one out. More option anxiety
> 
> ...



Well, you know, it seems that the general consensus here is to buy ‘em all 😅

Having played some classical stuff with the pure sound of Noire, I also think it tends to be too dark. About the tweaking... if you have una corda, you know more or less what you can do with it. It seems to me that Noire is not so versatile, though.

If I spend some hours playing the normal sound of Noire (and you have not buy anything by that time) I will let you know my impressions


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

mikrokosmiko said:


> Well, you know, it seems that the general consensus here is to buy ‘em all 😅
> 
> Having played some classical stuff with the pure sound of Noire, I also think it tends to be too dark. About the tweaking... if you have una corda, you know more or less what you can do with it. It seems to me that Noire is not so versatile, though.
> 
> If I spend some hours playing the normal sound of Noire (and you have not buy anything by that time) I will let you know my impressions


Thank you for testing out Noire's Pure Piano and listening to hear if it can sound bright enough and articulate enough to play as a main grand piano. I appreciate the help with this @mikrokosmiko


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

I may be able to help myself a little bit by sharing this music.

*This is in the vein of the kind of piano sound that I am looking for:*


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 22, 2020)

Hi Ásta! I personally CinePiano by Cinesamples. I find the tone is gorgeous, it's very playable, and comes with 4 settings to fit most of your needs. I did a little video on the library here:


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## mikrokosmiko (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> I may be able to help myself a little bit by sharing this music.
> 
> *This is in the vein of the kind of piano sound that I am looking for:*



Ok, check this:

I noticed there is this knob labeled as "color". It says "changes the tono color from soft to hard: turning to the right will make the instrument sound harder, crisper and with more attack". 

I played the first motifs with the pure sound, going from mf to pp and then to ff. Then again, with this knob turned a 50%. Then again, 100%. I think that with the 50% it could work in the context you are interested in. 

(There are some other knobs that may be useful: tonic shift, dynamic range...)


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

mikrokosmiko said:


> Ok, check this:
> 
> I noticed there is this knob labeled as "color". It says "changes the tono color from soft to hard: turning to the right will make the instrument sound harder, crisper and with more attack".
> 
> ...


Ha!

That piano sound is sounding almost exactly like the recording but maybe even better!

It sounds like Noire can go fairly bright but it never sounds harsh. It sure has some magic to it though. What a magical sounding instrument. 


The recording I shared was recorded at Abbey Road Studios in 2008. I am not sure what kind of piano they have there but that is the piano Kjarri used for this one.


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## mikrokosmiko (Nov 22, 2020)

Then we have a winner!


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

mikrokosmiko said:


> Then we have a winner!


It would definitely work! Thank you for doing that. That was very generous!

Have you got The Grandeur or Simple Sam Signature pianos as well that you could play that motif through? I know...I ask for the moon


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## mikrokosmiko (Nov 22, 2020)

My pleasure!

No, sorry, I don't have them. I have now Noire, Una Corda, and UVI augmented piano. Did not like LABS soft piano nor Pianoteq. I also deleted the VSL one.

Anyway, I think the grandeur is very niche, I like the demos but I do not think that will serve as "default" piano


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

mikrokosmiko said:


> My pleasure!
> 
> No, sorry, I don't have them. I have now Noire, Una Corda, and UVI augmented piano. Did not like LABS soft piano nor Pianoteq. I also deleted the VSL one.
> 
> Anyway, I think the grandeur is very niche, I like the demos but I do not think that will serve as "default" piano


Yes, I really appreciate your help greatly. 

Interesting about The Grandeur. Many people seem to think that it is the most "default" sounding piano in their collection which is why I am so curious to hear how it compares next to Noire. 

I am somewhat of a minimalist and like to limit my choices to just what I use and get rid of extra choices which is what keeps me from buying all of them and testing them myself. Well...and I am also a student working towards a tenured post. Right now I am earning a very basic living, working part time at a coffee shop and helping with some administrative work for my professors.


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## JonS (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Halló
> 
> I hope that everyone has been doing well and keeping their spirits up over the last months!
> 
> ...



CinePiano.


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## Loïc D (Nov 22, 2020)

I don’t have The Grandeur nor Simple Sam.
Only Noire, which I love.

My go-to sketching/scoring piano is... the one in ProjectSam Swing More.
I think it disqualifies me for any piano talk here


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

Anami said:


> Spectrasonics Keyscape is very responsive. I don't know every piano library out there but until know it's my personal favorite. You get more instruments as well but it's not cheap. Im a classical and jazz trained pianist and can highly recommend it.



Thank you for sharing this Anami. It was very kind of you indeed.

I know that Keyscape is excellent as I went down a path investigating whether or not I was going to buy it and also Omnisphere. I decided against it simply because of how many options these softwares place in front of me. Too many choices cause me to become paralyzed. I'm a very sensitive person that way which is why I like to sort of curate my own very specific selections of libraries to use. My collection is quite small but very powerful for me and what I am working on. Also, I am currently a student and therefore need to watch how much I spend. I cannot live off skyr every day. Just most days


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## Stephen Baysted (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> I will check out version 7. The last time I tried it out, it was almost on version 6 and it left me feeling cold and longing for something it could not reach.



Pianoteq 7 is quite brilliant. 50mb download and sounds great. Free trial version too.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Hi Ásta! I personally CinePiano by Cinesamples. I find the tone is gorgeous, it's very playable, and comes with 4 settings to fit most of your needs. I did a little video on the library here:



Hello again Chris!

CinePiano does seem to be one of the hot pianos around here! I would love to hear CinePiano playing the motif from this song, if you have time! It is a very easy piece to learn


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 22, 2020)

I do have Grandeur and find it hard to dial in a sound I like. It's kind of muffled on its own. Making it brighter seems possible, but will make the hammers sound harsh which I seriously dislike. Never go for it to be honest.

PianoTeq is an endless discussion. I have it and it's an uphill battle as far as I'm concerned. Version 7 does actually make the instruments sound better, but far from perfect. I like to think of it as the future of VI's and want it to work for me, but my ears and gut just don't lie. It's not there yet for piano's. I do use it for the harpsichord and CP80 in the Kivir pack are great.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

Marcus Millfield said:


> I do have Grandeur and find it hard to dial in a sound I like. It's kind of muffled on its own. Making it brighter seems possible, but will make the hammers sound harsh which I seriously dislike. Never go for it to be honest.
> 
> PianoTeq is an endless discussion. I have it and it's an uphill battle as far as I'm concerned. Version 7 does actually make the instruments sound better, but far from perfect. I like to think of it as the future of VI's and want it to work for me, but my ears and gut just don't lie. It's not there yet for piano's. I do use it for the harpsichord and CP80 in the Kivir pack are great.


Very helpful Marcus. I know what you mean about a library making the hammers sound harsh when going for a brighter sound. I feel like that is what my Galaxy Vintage D piano does. It was the predecessor to The Grandeur, I do believe.

So Marcus, what are your favorite pianos? And, what do you believe would work best for my application?


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> I feel like that is what my Galaxy Vintage D piano does. It was the predecessor to The Grandeur, I do believe.



Well, that would certainly explain a lot.



Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> So Marcus, what are your favorite pianos? And, what do you believe would work best for my application?



For me it really depends on the application.

*Practicing and classical*
Intimate and Romantic era pieces: VSL Synchron Blüthner
Rest: internal sound (Shigeru Kawaii EX grand) of my Kawai DP

*Jazz*
Smokey café kinda smooth jazz: Piano in Blue
Felt piano: Fracture Sounds Woodchester upright and Midnight grand
Rest: internal sound (Shigeru Kawaii EX grand) of my Kawai DP, tweaked for a more dark, moody sound if need be.

*Cinematic*
Don't do it often because I don't like the sound of the cinematic styled piano's, but when I do:
Fluffy Audio Scoring piano
Sound Iron Emotional Piano
Acoustisamples Kawaii Ex-Pro

For your application, I really would look at a piano VI that sounds as "real" as your gut tells you too. Everything else you want out of it can be tweaked, EQ'ed or FX'ed ( I'm making the terms up as I go ). I really love the VSL Blüthner as I love Blüthner piano's and like the smaller stage it was recorded in, because as I mentioned before, when I practice, I want the sound as upfront and dry as I can get it.

If I understood correctly, you're into Yamaha. I'd look at the standard/lite libraries of:
Garritan CFX
VSL Synchron CFX

I know the storage footprint is rather large, but you really do get the best sounding Yamaha VI's currently on the market as far as Yamaha's go in my opinion.


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## VSriHarsha (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Halló
> 
> I hope that everyone has been doing well and keeping their spirits up over the last months!
> 
> ...



Hey @Ásta Jónsdóttir!

I think these days it’s pretty hard to get a “Vanilla” Piano but pretty much anything you get from DAW’s Factory library is kinda vanilla. Well, not just Piano but most of the instruments. Although, I personally think the Piano from GarageBand or in Ableton are the same.

Well, another “Plug in & Play” kinda is oh the Westwood Free Piano? But I am not quite sure how simple is it I think you can give a shot.

Speaking of Pianos, the New Lo.Ki Piano is way........beyond many pianos available. I mean seriously! That’s pretty damn good “Record ready or The Radio ready” Piano.


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## VSriHarsha (Nov 22, 2020)

I like the Hephaestus Piano it’s one of my most favorite pianos & you can tweak the sound however you want. And it’s free (or name your price?). I like anything sampled from Steinways. Even their Bostons & Essex. Essex is little thicker in terms of the sound quality, compared to the Bostons & I like that. Yamahas sound very light not pure Piano-ish. And Bosendorfers are like medieval but I like the Sound.

Damn I talk too much of Pianos.


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## BenG (Nov 22, 2020)

Grabbed the Embertone Steinway (Lite) for a great deal a bit back. Couldn't be happier with the tone and playability...


(Forgive my crappy playing haha)


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## Alex C (Nov 22, 2020)

There's one piano that I never deleted from my computer and that's VI Labs's Ravenscroft. I think you can use it for pretty much everything (Jazz, soundtrack, New Age, ...) except perhaps if you're looking for a character piano. For that, it's too perfect, too consistent across the range, too much in tune. It plays well and it does what you expect a real piano to do.


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## fourier (Nov 22, 2020)

I have Pianoteq 7, but for me, the possibilities to play around with parameters to try create interesting sounds weigh heavier than seeking that natural sound. I find it highly responsive though, easily better than others I've tried, but I have not tried many of those mentioned in this thread, like CinePiano.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 22, 2020)

How could I forget Embertone's 1955 Walker. Thanks @BenG for the reminder.

That's one to listen to too @Ásta Jónsdóttir . I don't own it, but hear good things about it. It does tend to sound as if it has pretty hard hammer sound, but it does sound like a great piano for the price!


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## Tim_Wells (Nov 22, 2020)

I think I have a similar dilemma as you, Astra. I always find myself going back to Granduer. 

Other pianos always seem to have too much character, too much thump or wonk (especially in the mids and bass notes), they sound to distant (like it's in another room) or sound too sterile and lifeless. Noire is pretty good and has cool features, but again, I always go back to Granduer.

Granduer is not perfect, but for me it seems to strike the right balance of realism and clarity (especially in the mids and bass).


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## mojamusic (Nov 22, 2020)

Check out Cinepiano, too. It's on sale right now and it is pretty awesome!


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## SupremeFist (Nov 22, 2020)

Cinepiano has a bright rock preset specifically tailored for cutting through a mix; otherwise it can also sound wonderful and rich used solo. The Grandeur is like a toy by comparison.

Also you should check out the Xperimenta Due set: the first piano (Yamaha C7) has more cut for a mix, while the second (C3) is just a beauty. (I just had a solo piano piece using that piano chosen for a BBC Sounds playlist.)


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## doctoremmet (Nov 22, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Also you should check out the Xperimenta Due set: the first piano (Yamaha C7) has more cut for a mix, while the second (C3) is just a beauty.


Ah yes. Due (C3) is one of the most beautiful sounding piano samples ever recorded.


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## Tim_Wells (Nov 22, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Cinepiano has a bright rock preset specifically tailored for cutting through a mix; otherwise it can also sound wonderful and rich used solo. The Grandeur is like a toy by comparison.


Listening to the demos, Cinepiano seems to have the type of sound I'm after. But stills sounds a bit like I'm listening to a piano 20 feet away. How are the close mics?


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## filipjonathan (Nov 22, 2020)

Alicia's Keys definitely.


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## muziksculp (Nov 22, 2020)

Hi @Ásta Jónsdóttir ,

Piano for versatile applications I would recommend :

1. NI : Noire, on Sale $74.50
2. CineSamples : CinePiano, on Sale $99.

Both sound great, and very responsive, I just got Noire today, it's on sale. $74.50 I'm very happy with both these Pianos.

Given they are both on sale, you might think about getting both. 

Cheers,
Muziksculp


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## SupremeFist (Nov 22, 2020)

Tim_Wells said:


> Listening to the demos, Cinepiano seems to have the type of sound I'm after. But stills sounds a bit like I'm listening to a piano 20 feet away. How are the close mics?


I don't like a piano where you can't get a really close, intimate and pretty dry sound. Luckily the close mics on CinePiano are perfect for this (and I still add a bit of room because the room is so great).


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## SupremeFist (Nov 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Hi @Ásta Jónsdóttir ,
> 
> Piano for versatile applications I would recommend :
> 
> ...


Noire is very versatile (and the felt piano is gorgeous), but for solo work I prefer CinePiano and Xperimenta Due (and others) because they have real pedal-down samples, while the resonance in Noire is simulated.


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## muziksculp (Nov 22, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Noire is very versatile (and the felt piano is gorgeous), but for solo work I prefer CinePiano and Xperimenta Due (and others) because they have real pedal-down samples, while the resonance in Noire is simulated.



Yes, that's why I recommended getting both, Noire & CinePiano .


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## SupremeFist (Nov 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Yes, that's why I recommended getting both, Noire & CinePiano .


Right, the answer is always "buy one more library than you intended".


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## muziksculp (Nov 22, 2020)

SupremeFist said:


> Right, the answer is always "buy one more library than you intended".



Always good to have a spare, just in case...


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## muziksculp (Nov 22, 2020)

By the way, I just got NI Noire today, and so far I'm really loving it.


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## SupremeFist (Nov 22, 2020)

muziksculp said:


> Always good to have a spare, just in case...


Exactly, that's why I have like 20 piano libraries. 😬 (But I am like a little baby next to @CGR.)


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## SupremeFist (Nov 22, 2020)

Another one for the OP to check out, given her desire for something that works both solo and in a band mix, would be Soniccouture's Hammersmith.


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## cfodeebiedaddy (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Thank you @Loïc D
> 
> Do you prefer Noire over The Grandeur and Simple Sam?



I know this wasn't directed at me, but I have all three and would easily put Noire at the top of the list, with the Grandeur a fairly distant third.

Noire is just so versatile. I prefer the Garritan CFX for "feel" AND sound, but it's at least twice the price (unless Garritan do a big Black Friday sale) and a massive download compared to Noire. You also don't get the felt variation or the particles engine that are fantastic 'bonuses' with Noire. In terms of basic tonality, Noire isn't by default as 'present' or bright as I'd expect just by knowing it's a Yamaha, but you can make it much brighter and poppier with the built in controls, and it won't sound artificial.

I really wanted to like Simple Sam more than I do. I've heard other people make it sound amazing. So far, though, I haven't find the right blend of close/room mics or the right balance of release samples. As a result, it doesn't sound quite natural if I just want to sit down and play for a while. It still sounds very, very, good - but it doesn't click with me the way other libraries do.

Right now, it's kind of amazing that for a total of $125 USD you can have both Noire AND Simple Sam.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

Wow! Since I went to sleep, there are many excellent replies and more for me to research since I went to bed!

Thank you so much everyone! I really appreciate all of your help. I still cannot believe how kind and generous and helpful everyone on this forum is. This forum is so very different from other forums.


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## Beans (Nov 22, 2020)

Marcus Millfield said:


> Rest: internal sound (Shigeru Kawaii EX grand) of my Kawai DP
> ...
> 
> Rest: internal sound (Shigeru Kawaii EX grand) of my Kawai DP, tweaked for a more dark, moody sound if need be.



A fellow Kawai fan, I see!


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## Mason (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> *The Simple Sam*
> 
> I do like his name. Is he that simple?
> 
> ...



It’s the most realistic piano library on the market in my opinion. But keeping the quality of the piano has led to too much noise in the samples, so I wouldn’t use it as a solo piano. To me, it feels like the library is in kind of a beta version due to technical issues and noise. That’s perhaps why it’s so cheap.


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## Mason (Nov 22, 2020)

I’d recommend the Garritan CFX based on your criteria. It’s less a character piano than Noire and is not that bright to be a Yamaha. By cutting a lot of the high frequencies it can become very much like a Steinway too. It has a pretty good realism, although no sampled pianos has managed that completely yet.

It comes with a lighter version if you don’t want it to be too big in GB.

Every sampled piano has downsides. With this one there are some noise in the higher frequencies that you want to eq down.


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## Marsen (Nov 22, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Hi Ásta! I personally CinePiano by Cinesamples. I find the tone is gorgeous, it's very playable, and comes with 4 settings to fit most of your needs.


I second this.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

cfodeebiedaddy said:


> I know this wasn't directed at me, but I have all three and would easily put Noire at the top of the list, with the Grandeur a fairly distant third.
> 
> Noire is just so versatile. I prefer the Garritan CFX for "feel" AND sound, but it's at least twice the price (unless Garritan do a big Black Friday sale) and a massive download compared to Noire. You also don't get the felt variation or the particles engine that are fantastic 'bonuses' with Noire. In terms of basic tonality, Noire isn't by default as 'present' or bright as I'd expect just by knowing it's a Yamaha, but you can make it much brighter and poppier with the built in controls, and it won't sound artificial.
> 
> ...


I'm glad to hear that the Noire is versatile enough. Maybe not always the best choice but still excellent.

I think I might appreciate the extra character that Noire brings to the music as the music I am working on is quite informed by my local Icelandic influences who do very much gravitate towards sounds with two heaping tablespoons of character.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

Many people nudging me towards Garriton CFX and CinePiano.

It looks like the Piano used in the Garriton CFX library could indeed be the exact Piano that was used by *Sigur Rós* on the song *"Með suð í eyrum"* which I shared before and said that it has the kind of piano sound I am wanting to work with.

Unless of course Abbey Road Studios brought that Yamaha piano in just to make the sample library? Can anyone confirm if the piano used in the Garriton CFX library is the house grand piano at Abbey Road Studios?

I always assumed that the house piano at Abbey Road was a Steinway D as this is the most common and standard piano that most major scoring studios have unless I am mistaken.

The CinePiano seems like it was "inspired by" the entire concept of the Garriton CFX. Even the user interface on the CinePiano is basically an imitation of the Garriton CFX. I am not saying that the CinePiano is the poor man or woman's CFX. It does sound very good and has it's own sound. Perhaps a little warmer and more intimate sounding than the CFX. Conceptually, I think it may have been designed as disruptive technology competitor. 10GB is not bad for size.

How big is the Garriton when you download the full library and how is it on the CPU? I do not see any information on Garriton's site about the size. Some further enlightenment required.


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## Simeon (Nov 22, 2020)

@Ásta Jónsdóttir ,
I have been very fortunate to have been able to experience so many piano libraries this year. Here are a few videos I have done featuring NOIRE, Garritan CFX, and Cinepiano. There are many more on my channel if you would like to explore? I hope these might be initially helpful.

All the best,
Simeon

Garritan Abbey Road Studio CFX Concert Grand Virtual Piano | Livestream Replay





Side By Side | NOIRE and Garritan CFX Concert Grand





CinePiano from Cinesamples | Is This The Best Cinematic Piano Library? | First Look


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

Simeon said:


> @Ásta Jónsdóttir ,
> I have been very fortunate to have been able to experience so many piano libraries this year. Here are a few videos I have done featuring NOIRE, Garritan CFX, and Cinepiano. There are many more on my channel if you would like to explore? I hope these might be initially helpful.
> 
> All the best,
> ...



Thank you so much Simeon! I have seen you on YouTube while doing my research and you are fantastic! Your enthusiasm and excitement for music are great! I had a feeling that you may also be a pastor or leader in the Christian church from the way you end your videos almost like a prayer.

I appreciate having your videos to provide further audio enlightenment 

If there is a heaven, you will be an angel in the afterlife Simeon.


----------



## Simeon (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Many people nudging me towards Garriton CFX and CinePiano.
> 
> 
> How big is the Garriton when you download the full library and how is it on the CPU? I do not see any information on Garriton's site about the size. Some further enlightenment required.



Here is a comparison chart for CFX LITE and the FULL CFX.






Compare with CFX Lite - Garritan


In November 2016 we added new features to the full CFX Grand and introduced the CFX Lite. The chart below highlights the new features and the differences between the two products. FEATURES PERSPECTIVE CFX LITE CFX CONCERT GRAND Classic Mic Perspective – most faithfully captures the natural tonal...




www.garritan.com





It seems the LITE version only has the CLOSE mic perspective.

Also as far as size it is 133GB for the FULL installation and around 24GB for the COMPACT.

Another feature of the Garritan CFX is a true Una Corda layer.

Hope that helps?
Simeon


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## Simeon (Nov 22, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Thank you so much Simeon! I have seen you on YouTube while doing my research and you are fantastic! Your enthusiasm and excitement for music are great! I had a feeling that you may also be a pastor or leader in the Christian church from the way you end your videos almost like a prayer.
> 
> I appreciate having your videos to provide further audio enlightenment
> 
> If there is a heaven, you will be an angel in the afterlife Simeon.



It is my sincere pleasure.
I love to experience these libraries as each one has its own unique and special character to them, taking you into some very wonderful places.

I started playing in church when I was around five years old and I am so very grateful for all of the musical experiences I have had over the years.

Thanks again for your kind words of encouragement. 
All the best,


----------



## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

Simeon said:


> Here is a comparison chart for CFX LITE and the FULL CFX.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I must say that it is a massive library! After watching your video on it, I must say that I do not think I would like to have only the close microphone sound without any of the ambient or room mic sounds. Those more ambient sounds are what gives this instrument the signature sound that it has. It is a shame that it is so large. I must admit that I am not currently equipped to be able to handle a library of that size. I have 20GB of RAM and a single 500GB Samsung T5 drive dedicated for my libraries. My largest library is Tundra from Spitfire Audio and even it can make my CPU crackle and pop. 

What in your opinion is the next best thing to the Garriton CFX, that is a more reasonable size?


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## muziksculp (Nov 22, 2020)

NI Noire is 16 GB. $74.50
CineSamples CinePiano is 10 GB. $99. 

I wouldn't bother using 133 GB on an SSD for a Piano.


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## Fleer (Nov 22, 2020)

If you’re aiming at a Steinway D, I would look at the new NY Steinway in Pianoteq 7 and the Embertone Walker. 
Also compare the Pianoteq Bechstein DG to Bechstein’s own Digital Grand. 
But I do also love that CinePiano. It’s like their historic Piano-in-Blue revisited for cinematic purposes.


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## VSriHarsha (Nov 22, 2020)

Another one. I just found out Splash Sound is offering their Upright Piano at 90% off. That’s $5. I mean it has this delicate sound but may be you might like it @Ásta Jónsdóttir.

Check that!


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## Trash Panda (Nov 22, 2020)

AIR Mini Grand? Addictive Keys 2 Concert Grand?

I’ll see myself out.


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## Windbag (Nov 22, 2020)

In case it helps, here's a rough mockup with literally the demo of Pianoteq 7 using the new NY Steinway and 15 minutes of messing around with hammer harness, soundboard specs, condition (I usually have _some _wear & tear dialed in because it sounds more real to me - this is cranked more) and the built in FX. I'm sure I could get closer to the ref if I needed to but the important point is that because it's a modeled piano, you can steer it in just about any other direction you want to suit your mood and/or the particular application. 

I started using it to practice classical technique because of the responsiveness but Modartt have done a surprisingly good job chasing out the telltale idiosyncrasies to the point where I've pretty much stopped using anything else unless I need prepared sounds


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

Windbag said:


> In case it helps, here's a rough mockup with literally the demo of Pianoteq 7 using the new NY Steinway and 15 minutes of messing around with hammer harness, soundboard specs, condition (I usually have _some _wear & tear dialed in because it sounds more real to me - this is cranked more) and the built in FX. I'm sure I could get closer to the ref if I needed to but the important point is that because it's a modeled piano, you can steer it in just about any other direction you want to suit your mood and/or the particular application.
> 
> I started using it to practice classical technique because of the responsiveness but Modartt have done a surprisingly good job chasing out the telltale idiosyncrasies to the point where I've pretty much stopped using anything else unless I need prepared sounds


Wow! Thank you so much for doing that. I have said this before but I will say it again...this forum is awesome and there are some people here who are so kind and generous.

Very nice playing! I do believe that you got all the details in the performance right down to that one random grace note! The tone you achieved with PianoTeq is very close to the recording. Maybe just a little thicker sounding. The main difference I hear is in the dimension and spaciousness as well as a more uniform quality to the attack. Overall, very impressed with what you were able to achieve with PianoTeq 7.

No words are enough to thank you for this Mr. Wind


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 22, 2020)

*A Note To All Who Have Posted On My Thread:*

I had no expectations when I posted my question but I am feeling overwhelmed and shocked by everyone who has reached out on the thread as well as some people who have messaged me privately with opinions, advice, tips, clues, videos, informations and a general feeling of warmth and good wishes. It is hard to believe that two people have even gone to such lengths as to learn the piece of music I posted from Sigur Rós just to really help me hear what some different pianos sound like in the context that provides a meaningful reference point to me. You have no idea how much that helps! A lot of effort has gone into learning music and dialing in sounds just to help one person. 

These are grand gestures of kindness. I have never experienced another online community that was so gracious, encouraging, uplifting, neighborly, agreeable and helpful. I sit here in my little room (it is cold in here with a lot of snow outside) completely blown away by all of you and it brings me to tears. With all the chaos happening in the world, it must be...it has to be the musicians and creative artists who are going to keep the world safe from too much darkness. Thank you for teaching me something new about humanity today and giving me so much faith in people. 

Much Gratitude to everyone,
Ásta


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 22, 2020)

Beans said:


> A fellow Kawai fan, I see!



Yes indeed! Best action in a DP! Now if only someone would make a good, new sampled Shigeru Kawai VI...


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## FlyingAndi (Nov 22, 2020)

I realize, this might not be helpfull, as my this is probably the opposite of what most people are saying in this thread.
I have 3 pianos which have been mentioned quite a lot here and I would rank them in this order:

Simple Sam Samples Signature Grand
The Grandeur
Noire
Here's why:
*Simple Sam Samples Signature Grand*: To me this one of the most realistic sounding pianos I've heard so far. I don't hear any noise unless you dial it in (but maybe my ears aren't that good). It has a very nice character without being too much of a character piano. A key aspect in the sound are the hall mics. If you can use them and they fit in the mix, it sounds wonderfull. If not, I rahter use a different piano. The developer @SimpleSamSamples is very helpfull and responsive. On other occasions he has taken the challenge to replicate the sound of other recordings using the Signature Grand. So he might chime in here and provide settings for the Sigur Ros song.

*The Grandeur:* It seems to work in every song. Kind of a chameleon, but in a good way. Very playable and light on the CPU. 

*Noire:* I used to love Noire from the demos as long as I didn't own it. I got it just recently with K13 and I'm a little bit dissapointed. The piano sound on it's own doesn't have enough character for me. Kind of a chameleon, but in a bad way. But maybe I haven't played with it and it's settings enough yet. The particle engine is amzing and fun to play though.


And here's a free piano that might work for you:


https://vi-control.net/community/threads/novel-piano-free-piano-library-natural-and-soft.92572/



But it's an upright and not a grand piano and maybe too much on the cinematic side.


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## cfodeebiedaddy (Nov 23, 2020)

FlyingAndi said:


> *Simple Sam Samples Signature Grand*: The developer @SimpleSamSamples is very helpfull and responsive. On other occasions he has taken the challenge to replicate the sound of other recordings using the Signature Grand. So he might chime in here and provide settings for the Sigur Ros song.
> 
> 
> *Noire:* I used to love Noire from the demos as long as I didn't own it. I got it just recently with K13 and I'm a little bit dissapointed. The piano sound on it's own doesn't have enough character for me. Kind of a chameleon, but in a bad way. But maybe I haven't played with it and it's settings enough yet. The particle engine is amzing and fun to play though.


Our ranking is totally different, but I've seen the developer behind Signature Grand over at Pianoworld, and you're absolutely right - his helpfulness knows no bounds!

I also felt exactly like you did with Noire for the first few hours. It doesn't have the wow factor of Garritan, but after playing with it more I really liked what it could do and thought there were a lot of sound options that were quite lovely.



Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> These are grand gestures of kindness. I have never experienced another online community that was so gracious, encouraging, uplifting, neighborly, agreeable and helpful. I sit here in my little room (it is cold in here with a lot of snow outside) completely blown away by all of you and it brings me to tears. With all the chaos happening in the world, it must be...it has to be the musicians and creative artists who are going to keep the world safe from too much darkness. Thank you for teaching me something new about humanity today and giving me so much faith in people.
> 
> Ásta


Never underestimate how much music nerds like talking about their favourite sample libraries


----------



## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 23, 2020)

FlyingAndi said:


> I realize, this might not be helpfull, as my this is probably the opposite of what most people are saying in this thread.
> I have 3 pianos which have been mentioned quite a lot here and I would rank them in this order:
> 
> Simple Sam Samples Signature Grand
> ...



I appreciate contrasting perspectives so thank you for writing all of that @FlyingAndi!


----------



## ngineer (Nov 23, 2020)

You’ve heard from the heavyweights already, and they’ve made some great recommendations, but I’ll just add my voice.

The VSL Synchron pianos. The flexibility in the mic positions and mixes to adjust the feel and timbre for different applications is excellent.

The cleanliness of the recordings; VSL knows what they are doing and why they have been leaders for years.

The number of dynamic layers in the recordings blows so many out of the water. You can get a super soft sound to a thunderous sound and anywhere in between very easily. I have the Bosendorfer Imperial (the most dynamic layers) and will be adding to the collection this Black Friday season.
I have several of the ones already mentioned in this thread, and they are good, but I’m going to be putting my money toward VSL Synchron from here on out.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 23, 2020)

*@CGR*

Apologies for not initially recognizing you as one of the most experienced and knowledgeable people on the forum when it comes to Sample Library Pianos. I have come to understand from others that you are a professional composer and person of repute around here for your Piano library wisdom. Thank you for your first suggestions and thoughts on my post.

After many responses to my question, I have spent the past 24 hours straight, doing research on every one of the suggestions that every person has shared. Some people suggest their personal favorites while other people suggest ones they have come to settle on after trying out many. It is great to have these different perspectives and especially some of the videos and audio examples that people have shared. Hearing them is what adds the most meaning to their potential value for me.

After 48 hours on Piano Library Safari, the most "aha!" moment for me is when I heard forum member Mikrokosmiko playing the part from this song I posted as a reference using the NI NOIRE piano. Noire seems to have almost the exact same sound as the recording. So close that I do not even think Sigur Rós would be able to tell the difference if the original piano part in the recording were replaced with Noire.

The reference song - _Með suð_ í _eyrum_ from Sigur Rós was produced by Flood at Abbey Road Studios using whatever the house piano is at Abbey Road Studios. Perhaps that provides some important insight?



I wanted to ask you CRG (Craig), what your thoughts are after having heard this recording?

This is the best reference I can provide of the kind of piano sound that I am seeking out for use in my own work. I just love the tone of it. It is well balanced, warm, beautiful but also sits really nicely in a dense mix. It sounds like it has some room tone blended in from room mics but not too much. It is fairly intimate sounding to my ears.

Some of the pianos that have been suggested like Simple Sam Signature and Garriton CFX do sound wonderful but they seem to have a lot more room sound with a much brighter attack and tone compared to the piano sound in the Sigur Rós song reference. Perhaps those things can be adjusted and these pianos can be made to sound less roomy and bright. Noire Pure seems to have the right amount of attack and ambience right out of the box with just a little adjustment on the color and tonal shift parameters. In other words, the samples themselves in Noire sound closest so far. It could be just because of how the instrument has been adjusted by Mikrokosmiko and it might also be because the piano at Abbey Road is a Yamaha and so is Nils Fram's piano sampled in Noire. 

I would love to hear your thoughts on it because you have the experience with all of the libraries that I do not have. My goal is to find the sound I am looking for and make music with it. I really appreciate having tools to create with but I am one of those people who needs to have only the tools that I am using to work with and nothing else that could steal my attention away from my work. I am sure you understand how hard it is as a young person to maintain focus. 

Thank you for reading and for your time @CGR


----------



## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2020)

doctoremmet said:


> Also, don’t listen to me and instead read everything Craig @CGR has to say on this subject.


And here it was, in post #4


----------



## doctoremmet (Nov 23, 2020)

Btw. The coolest BF deal has got to be this one. Maybe consider it as a bonus. That Vertikal sounds exactly like my own 1981 Yamaha U1 upright, it’s uncanny. And $31.60 for four piano samples remains an incredibly good bargain. The Rain piano is also very nice to just play for hours.









Elkatwin Retro Synth Sample Library by Xtant Audio - Audio Plugin Deals


The Elkatwin 61 is an Italian analogue synthesizer, considered a great string machine amongst enthusiasts and now available as an easy to use Kontakt 5 instrument.




audioplugin.deals


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## FlyingAndi (Nov 23, 2020)

I wonder if there are two pianos in the recording.
The part which starts at the beginning is on the left, whereas the part which starts at 0:26 is on the right although the notes are quite near to each other (just an octave distance i guess).

So if there are two pianos, @Ásta Jónsdóttir has no choice but to buy two new piano libraries 
(Or XPERIMENTA Due)


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## alchemist (Nov 23, 2020)

tc9000 said:


> simple sam samples signature grand all the way.


Wow, I hadn't heard of this before, thanks for the suggestion  just watched the walkthrough and @Simeon play through video, then i saw the current price.. just had to buy it! What a great little library. Never thought I'd get another piano after the Garritan CFX but there it is haha


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## re-peat (Nov 23, 2020)

Beans said:


> A fellow Kawai fan, I see!



The Kawai Shigeru is my nr. 1 choice for virtual (sampled) piano too. Since I got it — a few weeks ago, after my Roland V-Piano went phut one blessed morning — terrabytes and terrabytes of piano sample libraries are sitting unused on my HD and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. The Shigeru is superior — in sound, timbre, playability, consistency, balance, mixability … you name it — to all of them.

I can stil see some uses for one or two so-called character instruments and I’ll never say good-bye to the Galaxy Vintage-D either (an old and very dear friend), but everything else: scram.

_


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## Simeon (Nov 23, 2020)

re-peat said:


> The Kawai Shigaru is my nr. 1 choice for virtual (sampled) piano too. Since I got it — a few weeks ago, after my Roland V-Piano went phut one blessed morning — terrabytes and terrabytes of piano sample libraries are sitting unused on my HD and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. The Shigaru is superior — in sound, timbre, playability, consistency, balance, mixability … you name it — to all of them.
> 
> I can stil see some uses for one or two so-called character instruments and I’ll never say good-bye to the Galaxy Vintage-D either (an old and very dear friend), but everything else: scram.
> 
> _



Who produces this library, sounds very interesting.
I found d a reference to an Acousticsamples library but not sure if it is the same one you are talking about.


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## FlyingAndi (Nov 23, 2020)

So here are some more expamples:
Simple Sam with Default Pop preset but key noises turned down: It's brighter than the original (and than I would have thought) but I still like it 
Grandeur with my favourite preset Deep Grandeur: It does't sound like the example out of the box but comes very close with this preset.
Pearl Concert Grand: I think this was recommended by @CGR . And I think he was spot on. There's a certain emphasis in the mids that sounds very much like the Sigur Ros example.
The Maverick: This is the default setting. I think it's nearer to the original piano than the Grandeur default setting. It has a certain vintage-whining that's also in the Sigur Ros piano. But theres also some kind of shimmering that makes it sound different.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 23, 2020)

Simeon said:


> Who produces this library, sounds very interesting.
> I found d a reference to an Acousticsamples library but not sure if it is the same one you are talking about.



I think he's referring to the on-board Shigaru Kawai samples in his Kawai (digital) piano. I have one and agree no library comes even close. I was hoping Acousticsamples Kawai EX-PRO library would, but it doesn't.


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## Beans (Nov 23, 2020)

Marcus Millfield said:


> I think he's referring to the on-board Shigaru Kawai samples in his Kawai (digital) piano. I have one and agree no library comes even close. I was hoping Acousticsamples Kawai EX-PRO library would, but it doesn't.



I'm not familiar with the full Kawai digital range, but I absolutely love my ES8. I don't think the Shigeru sound is the *absolute *end-all above all others on its own, but the combination of it and the ES8 key bed is extremely comfortable for me.

If anyone is interested in a new digital piano, check out Stu's videos on Merriam Music's YouTube account. He's ridiculously good at both playing and showing off the features. Simeon is "the guy" for piano VIs, Stu is "the guy" for digital pianos.


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## Marcus Millfield (Nov 23, 2020)

Beans said:


> I don't think the Shigeru sound is the *absolute *end-all above all others on its own, but the combination of it and the ES8 key bed is extremely comfortable for me.



I agree. The sound is just so "upfront and center" yet can be subtle too. I use it a lot for practicing, as mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread.


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## re-peat (Nov 23, 2020)

Yes, I was referring to the Shigeru inside the Kawai MP7/11SE (and maybe in other Kawai keyboards too, but I'm not familiar with the Kawai range so I don't know). Anyway: a thing of beauty.
This video is one of the better ones I found to give you an idea of the sound:



_


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## Tim_Wells (Nov 23, 2020)

FlyingAndi said:


> I realize, this might not be helpfull, as my this is probably the opposite of what most people are saying in this thread.
> I have 3 pianos which have been mentioned quite a lot here and I would rank them in this order:
> 
> Simple Sam Samples Signature Grand
> ...



You and I and must have similar ears for piano, because I feel the exact same way about Grandeur and Noire. I'm gonna check out Simple Sam and the freebie you mentioned.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 23, 2020)

Alright...I'll say it........EastWest/QL Pianos. I have other nice piano libraries, but most of the time I end up going with good old EW. Especially the Steinway and Bechstein.


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## ZeroZero (Nov 23, 2020)

My ears prefer modelled rather than sampled pianos. I have a lot here Steinbergs the Grand, Keyscape, but I still prefer TruePianos which is not well known but is very good. It's got a 30 free trial and it fits into the palm of your hand. https://www.truepianos.com/. I find Keyscape's piano over produced. Keyscape is still very good though if you ALSO want Rhodes. Wurlys, music boxes, clav and a lot more. I still love the product but won't use the grand.

Download true pianos here. its only a few megabytes - free: https://www.truepianos.com/


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## Tim_Wells (Nov 23, 2020)

ZeroZero said:


> I still prefer TruePianos which is not well known but is very good. It's got a 30 free trial and it fits into the palm of your hand. https://www.truepianos.com/.
> 
> Download true pianos here. its only a few megabytes - free: https://www.truepianos.com/


The audio demos remind me a little bit of my Yamaha S80 pianos (that's a good thing). Except it sounds better. The price is right. I think I'm gonna check this out.


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## fourier (Nov 23, 2020)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Alright...I'll say it........EastWest/QL Pianos. I have other nice piano libraries, but most of the time I end up going with good old EW. Especially the Steinway and Bechstein.



I really like the sound of the EW's Bechstein 280 myself. However, it feels so unresponsive when I'm playing that I end up trying to shape the soft sound I'd like in Pianoteq7, and then run a separate channel with the recorded midi on the Bechstein to see if I'd opt for a switch - and most of the time, I don't. But again, I'm no virtuoso or someone with any refined palate for magnificent pianos - I just go with what my ears find most pleasing/desirable.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 23, 2020)

fourier said:


> I really like the sound of the EW's Bechstein 280 myself. However, it feels so unresponsive when I'm playing that I end up trying to shape the soft sound I'd like in Pianoteq7, and then run a separate channel with the recorded midi on the Bechstein to see if I'd opt for a switch - and most of the time, I don't. But again, I'm no virtuoso or someone with any refined palate for magnificent pianos - I just go with what my ears find most pleasing/desirable.



Hmmmm, now I need to check out Pianoteq7.


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## sostenuto (Nov 23, 2020)

........... XPERIMENTAPROJECT *BlkFri* _ PREPARATO @ $89. _ DUE PIANOS @ $70.


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## ZeroZero (Nov 23, 2020)

Tim_Wells said:


> The audio demos remind me a little bit of my Yamaha S80 pianos (that's a good thing). Except it sounds better. The price is right. I think I'm gonna check this out.


Yes, its my goto VST, even though I have "better" of course Black Firiday may bring benefits. The only thing I have that is better is the Classical grand on my Roland 700NX and that is saying a lot, as you can see the dents in my keyboard where I have worn away playing it


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## ag75 (Nov 23, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> Hi Ásta! I personally CinePiano by Cinesamples. I find the tone is gorgeous, it's very playable, and comes with 4 settings to fit most of your needs. I did a little video on the library here:



I absolutely LOOOVE Piano in Blue. Would I enjoy this library? It's only $99 for the BF sale. The tone from your video sounds gorgeous.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Nov 23, 2020)

ag75 said:


> I absolutely LOOOVE Piano in Blue. Would I enjoy this library? It's only $99 for the BF sale. The tone from your video sounds gorgeous.


Certainly! For an all-purpose piano, you can’t go wrong.


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## Reid Rosefelt (Nov 23, 2020)

Here's the way I see this, Asta...

1) There are hundreds of virtual pianos available. Nobody in this thread owns and regularly uses even the several dozen pianos that are well thought of. Everybody suggests their favorite without having ever done a full comparison. And even if they had tried them all and thought deeply about it, their music is not your music.

2) There are a lot of controls for the two pianos that come with Noire. There are infinite ways to adjust them. All the NI pianos have many presets and options for adjustment. If you read the description of ArtVista's Virtual Grand (I'm not saying this is the answer for you, although I do love it), you will read this:

_Art Vista Virtual Grand Piano 3 is based on recordings of a 1960 Hamburg Steinway Model ”B” and offers stunningly realistic piano presets for every possible recording genre. It includes emulations of famous piano recordings from the 1950's through today by artists such as Aretha Franklin, Elton John, Norah Jones, Diana Krall, Donny Hathaway, Chet Baker, Jan Johansson, Ray Charles, John Lewis, Bobby Timmons, Billy Preston, Keith Jarrett, Jackson Browne, Leon Russell, John Legend, Arthur Rubinstein, and Bill Evans. _

There is no question that you can get a tremendous amount of piano colors out of a single piano virtual instrument. You don't have to own a lot of virtual instruments to create a lot of possibilities. 

I happen to like Noire, but one of the reasons I like is it offers so many possibilities. To me it's like owning many pianos. But there are many, many fine piano virtual instruments out there that offer a large level of choice. There is no best. It's what you do with these pieces of software to bend them to your will. 

That said, there are singular instruments out there like Malmsjo, that you should only get if you like the sound of Malmsjo.

Just my two cents.


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## SupremeFist (Nov 23, 2020)

re-peat said:


> Yes, I was referring to the Shigeru inside the Kawai MP7/11SE (and maybe in other Kawai keyboards too, but I'm not familiar with the Kawai range so I don't know). Anyway: a thing of beauty.
> This video is one of the better ones I found to give you an idea of the sound:
> 
> 
> ...



I have that Shigeru in my Kawai CA-97 and it's indeed beautiful for my daily practice/playing for pleasure... though it's ok to prefer certain sample libraries for recording  (depending on the material and the sound one is after of course).


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## CGR (Nov 23, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> *@CGR*
> 
> Apologies for not initially recognizing you as one of the most experienced and knowledgeable people on the forum when it comes to Sample Library Pianos. I have come to understand from others that you are a professional composer and person of repute around here for your Piano library wisdom. Thank you for your first suggestions and thoughts on my post.
> 
> ...




There's been plenty of advice offered here so I'm not sure I can add much more. I think Noire would be a good fit for the sound you are chasing. It has an extensive range of controls to tweak the tone, character & response, and the built in FX & Reverbs are excellent. Normally single mic perspective sampled pianos such as Noire can be hard to place in different spaces, but it's surprisingly flexible in going from an up-front close & warm tone, to a distant ambient piano with the convolution FX without sounding artificial and weird. The Felt & Particle Engine features are an added bonus.

Given your request for a sampled piano which doesn't take hundreds of GB of disk space, Noire fits the bill coming in at around 16GB, and it runs fine from a 7200rpm HDD too. Same reason I suggested Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano, as it's around 20GB installed and also reasonably light on computer resources. On sale at present for $48.40 USD. It has a warm & realistic sound, with 3 separate mic sets (Close, Mid, Room) and some decent tone shaping controls, but nowhere near as extensive as Noire.

The Impact Soundworks Pearl Concert Grand (Yamaha C7) is another which would work based on the Sigur Rós example. It has 16bit & 24bit versions included when you buy it (16bit is around 12GB, and the 24bit around 29GB) with 4 mic sets. It has the rare quality in the sampled piano world of warmth, resonance & clarity (it has real separate sustain pedal down samples which helps). I use it often in productions.

Also, the Xperimenta Due Pianos (Yamaha C7 and C3) suggested above would also be good choices - in particular the C3. I've found they require more time to tweak the settings to get an optimum result compared to other sampled pianos, but it's worth the effort. These are also on sale at present for around $70 USD for the 2 pianos which is a steal.

To my ears, the most realistic sampled pianos are VSL's Synchron Pianos and Garritan's Yamaha CFX - the trade off being you need a large SSD for the hundreds of GB the VSL pianos occupy, and although the Garritan CFX runs fine from a standard 7200rpm HDD, it's still around 130GB for the full version.

So many options - good luck with your quest, and have fun making music with whatever you choose


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 23, 2020)

FlyingAndi said:


> I wonder if there are two pianos in the recording.
> The part which starts at the beginning is on the left, whereas the part which starts at 0:26 is on the right although the notes are quite near to each other (just an octave distance i guess).
> 
> So if there are two pianos, @Ásta Jónsdóttir has no choice but to buy two new piano libraries
> (Or XPERIMENTA Due)


There are indeed two separate piano recordings that appear eventually but it sounds like they were both performed on the same piano to my ears. I could be wrong but they sound like the same instrument.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 23, 2020)

re-peat said:


> The Kawai Shigeru is my nr. 1 choice for virtual (sampled) piano too. Since I got it — a few weeks ago, after my Roland V-Piano went phut one blessed morning — terrabytes and terrabytes of piano sample libraries are sitting unused on my HD and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. The Shigeru is superior — in sound, timbre, playability, consistency, balance, mixability … you name it — to all of them.
> 
> I can stil see some uses for one or two so-called character instruments and I’ll never say good-bye to the Galaxy Vintage-D either (an old and very dear friend), but everything else: scram.
> 
> _


The Galaxy Vintage D is just not doing it for me. I bought it based on so many people writing about how useful and "go-to" it is but I find that it leaves me feeling completely cold and stiff.


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## A minor (Nov 23, 2020)

May I suggest another alternative: Orchestral Tools -
*Vivid Keys*
*Versatile Studio Grand*
The warm, organic sound of a classic grand piano—in vivid detail.

Recorded in a dry studio using close mics, Vivid Keys captures the pure, direct sound of a Yamaha C3 grand piano—a mainstay of recording studios worldwide. By using the soft pedal for all samples, Vivid Keys delivers rich, round timbres. 

Three ready-to-go mixes let you start creating right away. The natural mix offers an upfront, present sound with just a touch of optional reverb. The cinematic mix builds on the softer dynamics of the raw piano tone, adding a large, shimmering pad. And the tight pop mix uses dynamic compression to provide the punch for cutting through any production.









Vivid Keys


The warm, organic sound of a classic grand piano—in vivid detail. Recorded in a dry studio using close mics, Vivid Keys captures the pure, direct sound of a Yamaha C3 grand piano—a mainstay of recording studios worldwide




www.orchestraltools.com


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## khollister (Nov 23, 2020)

I agree with CGR - I have the Garritan CFX, VSL Synchron Bosendorfer and Synchron D-274 Steinway. While Noire, Ivory and the rest of the Kontakt wonders are good, the big 3 blow them away in playability and sound. Of course you pay for it in money and disk space.

A good runner up is the Ravencroft 275 on UVI.

The Synchron CFX doesn't do it for me - too clangy, sounds like a C7 to me


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 23, 2020)

FlyingAndi said:


> So here are some more expamples:
> Simple Sam with Default Pop preset but key noises turned down: It's brighter than the original (and than I would have thought) but I still like it
> Grandeur with my favourite preset Deep Grandeur: It does't sound like the example out of the box but comes very close with this preset.
> Pearl Concert Grand: I think this was recommended by @CGR . And I think he was spot on. There's a certain emphasis in the mids that sounds very much like the Sigur Ros example.
> The Maverick: This is the default setting. I think it's nearer to the original piano than the Grandeur default setting. It has a certain vintage-whining that's also in the Sigur Ros piano. But theres also some kind of shimmering that makes it sound different.


Wow! Another great set of audio examples. Thank you so much @FlyingAndi!

I A/B tested your audio clips level matched against the *Sigur Rós* song and the Simple Sam Signature Piano was by far the closest. The Granduer sounded nice but the attack was too soft and undefined. I think that could be just because it's a different piano. 

The PianoTeq audio clip posted earlier was the furthest away from sounding like it. The Pearl sounded nice but too much in the low end and low mids. Maverick was awful! Sounded small and cheap.

So far, Noire is sounding the most like the piano in the *Sigur Rós* song when I do A/B comparison listening tests. It could very well be that it is because it is the same Yamaha piano?

Thank you again! it was really good to hear Simple Sam Signature Piano. It is very close but more importantly, it is an excellent sounding piano. Way better than any others in your examples.


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## Kent (Nov 23, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> It is obvious to me now that the piano in the original song is a Yamaha because both Simple Sam and Noire both sound closest to the original recording.



Simple Sam’s grand is a Steinway D though!


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 23, 2020)

ZeroZero said:


> My ears prefer modelled rather than sampled pianos. I have a lot here Steinbergs the Grand, Keyscape, but I still prefer TruePianos which is not well known but is very good. It's got a 30 free trial and it fits into the palm of your hand. https://www.truepianos.com/. I find Keyscape's piano over produced. Keyscape is still very good though if you ALSO want Rhodes. Wurlys, music boxes, clav and a lot more. I still love the product but won't use the grand.
> 
> Download true pianos here. its only a few megabytes - free: https://www.truepianos.com/


I mentioned earlier that I have TruePianos already and think its great for the money and for how lightweight it is on the CPU. It is the piano I have used for quiet headphone practice for the last 3 years. It sounds good, but I don't think on the same level as my Una Corda or Spitfire OACT or SoundIron Emotional pianos.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 23, 2020)

TigerTheFrog said:


> Here's the way I see this, Asta...
> 
> 1) There are hundreds of virtual pianos available. Nobody in this thread owns and regularly uses even the several dozen pianos that are well thought of. Everybody suggests their favorite without having ever done a full comparison. And even if they had tried them all and thought deeply about it, their music is not your music.
> 
> ...


Yes. I agree that Noire is probably versatile enough to be my main piano, especially given the fact that so far, it sounds closest to my audio reference for the kind of piano sound I am looking for!

I hear that Harold Budd really loves the Malmsjo Piano. That is a pretty great endorsement!


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 23, 2020)

kmaster said:


> Simple Sam’s grand is a Steinway D though!


Yes! I realized that I wrote the wrong thing and then deleted it before you posted this message but you were a quick draw on correcting me


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## Kent (Nov 23, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Yes! I realized that I wrote the wrong thing and then deleted it before you posted this message but you were a quick draw on correcting me


Ahh sorry! Just an ardent fan of the SSSSG—best $50 I’ve spent on a piano in a long, long time.

And the developer is top-notch, too. They ran a fun contest a while back to match up their piano to 10 reference recordings, and those who could correctly identify real vs virtual 10/10 times would get the piano free. The cool part (IMO): not only was it a legitimately difficult test (only 3 people had perfect scores), which shows how great the instrument is, but the “results” video went through each example and showed how the samples fell short—just barely!—each time. If that isn’t confidence in one’s product, I don’t know what is.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 23, 2020)

CGR said:


> There's been plenty of advice offered here so I'm not sure I can add much more. I think Noire would be a good fit for the sound you are chasing. It has an extensive range of controls to tweak the tone, character & response, and the built in FX & Reverbs and excellent. Normally single mic perspective sampled pianos such as Noire can be hard to place in different spaces, but it's surprisingly flexible in going from an up-front close & warm tone, to a distant ambient piano with the convolution FX without sounding artificial and weird. The Felt & Particle Engine features are an added bonus.
> 
> Given your request for a sampled piano which doesn't take hundreds of GB of disk space, Noire fits the bill coming in at around 16GB, and it runs fine from a 7200rpm HDD too. Same reason I suggested Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano, as it's around 20GB installed and also reasonably light on computer resources. On sale at present for $48.40 USD. It has a warm & realistic sound, with 3 separate mic sets (Close, Mid, Room) and some decent tone shaping controls, but nowhere near as extensive as Noire.
> 
> ...


Good Morning @CGR! 

Thank you for taking the time to respond at length here. I really appreciate it.

I think you are right. Noire will suit me best and it won't take much time tweaking to get an optimum result. As many people have mentioned, the sound right out of the box is quite wondrous.

I am one of those silly people who likes to drench the piano in blackhole and other ambient treatments so having deadly accurate room emulation isn't as crucial as it might be for someone who is composing and trying to make the piano sound like it is part of the "scoring stage" film soundtrack aesthetic.

The Garritan CFX is a bit much for me, though I do recognize its sound-supremacy and why it is held in such high regard. For getting things done, it is just too much to deal with at this point in time. I will however, check out your other suggestions closely before I hit the "BUY" button over at NI's website.

I am going to do a bit more research and get my tools back in order and get back to work. I have to update all of my Valhalla plugins and my Spitfire LABS. I also need to update my Strymon IR library pool with a new collection I have been meaning to get for quite some time. Constant software updates....God, what a nightmare these companies have created for someone like me who just wants to try to maintain focus.

Work is the most fun I ever have. Seriously! I feel more at peace when I am working than when I am doing anything else. Even swimming or laying outside in the sunshine in the summer time.


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## germancomponist (Nov 23, 2020)

I think it depends on your keyboard / master keyboard first of all. Is the keyboard weighted and how does it trigger which velocity values? All libraries also differ here on this topic. You can see the differences immediately when you send the same midi file to different piano libraries. You surely also know that you have to adjust the midi data ..... A very, very broad field!


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## Rory (Nov 23, 2020)

I use C. Bechstein's Digital Grand. There is a lot of information about it, including a user manual, on the Bechstein website. Re the question in your original post about file size, it's 25.5GB. I don't know the current price. As far as I know, it has never been sold at a discount.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 23, 2020)

germancomponist said:


> I think it depends on your keyboard / master keyboard first of all. Is the keyboard weighted and how does it trigger which velocity values? All libraries also differ here on this topic. You can see the differences immediately when you send the same midi file to different piano libraries. You surely also know that you have to adjust the midi data ..... A very, very broad field!


Indeed!

I recorded some older piano tracks using True Pianos Atlantis module.

Then I ran the same MIDI performance through the Galaxy Vintage D and it sounded so silly. It was almost funny how Vintage D Piano was reacting to the MIDI.

I use an M-Audio controller. It is their hammer action one but it is not the best. I am saving up for a Studio Logic but cannot afford one yet.

I think it is important to get the sound dialed in before you record a piano part. It is so important to commit to your sounds as you go. Saving things for later is a bad idea according to all of the professionals I talk to here on my home Island.

I try to get the performance and sound right at the start. I might go in and edit the MIDI to fine tune certain "mistakes" but I do that right away, not later in the week, long after I have forgotten where I went wrong. Commitment is the difference between people who are good at what they do and people who are great at what they do.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 23, 2020)

Rory said:


> I use C. Bechstein's Digital Grand. There is a lot of information about it, including a user manual, on the Bechstein website. Re the question in your original post about file size, it's 25.5GB. I don't know the current price. As far as I know, it has never been sold at a discount.


Hi Rory!


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## Rory (Nov 23, 2020)

Hi Ásta!


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## Duncan Krummel (Nov 23, 2020)

If you’re still researching, I started this thread comparing every piano library I owned (for the most part):






Piano Comparison Thread (MIDI Included)


So back in April there was a great thread demonstrating 20 different piano libraries using the same MIDI. It was a lot of fun, but there are a few of well-known drawbacks with doing this: 1. Libraries respond differently to MIDI, so the result tends to the less musical. 2. A single cue, even...




vi-control.net





I will say this; as a classically trained pianist, the one piano I would NEVER part with is the Ravenscroft 275. I’ve used it in live performance, documentaries, commercials, and more in just about every style. It is a true workhorse IMO.


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## hessproject (Nov 23, 2020)

Not sure if it's too bright or big (7GB) for you, but I really like NI's Alecia's Keys as a general purpose grand piano, currently on sale too


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## Rory (Nov 23, 2020)

Duncan Krummel said:


> I will say this; as a classically trained pianist, the one piano I would NEVER part with is the Ravenscroft 275. I’ve used it in live performance, documentaries, commercials, and more in just about every style. It is a true workhorse IMO.



Have you ever used the Ravenscroft with the customised Kawai keyboard for it?


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## Duncan Krummel (Nov 23, 2020)

Rory said:


> Have you ever used the Ravenscroft with the customised Kawai keyboard for it?



Oh, I haven’t, but boy do I want to. Maybe if I win $5k, I’ll splurge.

Edit: my keyboard is a Korg SV-1, a great keyboard but definitely not a piano. The velocity curve editor in the Ravenscroft is one of the best though, so I can still creat great recordings even if it doesn’t feel the best.


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## VSriHarsha (Nov 23, 2020)

Hey @Ásta Jónsdóttir 

What you think about Spitfire’s Orchestral Grand? It’s just $49? but I heard few good things about it. Although, I also heard people complaining about its dynamic layers. Check for yourself.

This may sound strange but I just found out Electronik Soundlab’s offering Fort3 - A free grand piano. I think it’s kinda romper. I am not much interested in but as you’re looking, you can give a try, if at all. Also, have you checked the pianos from e-Instruments?

May be it helps?


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## ag75 (Nov 23, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Hey @Ásta Jónsdóttir
> 
> What you think about Spitfire’s Orchestral Grand? It’s just $49? but I heard few good things about it. Although, I also heard people complaining about its dynamic layers. Check for yourself.
> 
> ...


Spitfires orchestral piano is more for layering with the orchestra and less of a solo piano library in my opinion.


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## ag75 (Nov 23, 2020)

Duncan Krummel said:


> Oh, I haven’t, but boy do I want to. Maybe if I win $5k, I’ll splurge.
> 
> Edit: my keyboard is a Korg SV-1, a great keyboard but definitely not a piano. The velocity curve editor in the Ravenscroft is one of the best though, so I can still creat great recordings even if it doesn’t feel the best.


Does the Ravenscroft 275 ever go on sale?


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## Duncan Krummel (Nov 23, 2020)

ag75 said:


> Does the Ravenscroft 275 ever go on sale?


Yep! I can’t quite remember when VI-Labs has sales, but I vaguely recall a Christmas sale.

Alternatively, it is available on audioplugin.deals at a discount if you have the rewards cash saved up there. I caught it as the deal of the week (month?) a few years ago.


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## keepitsimple (Nov 23, 2020)

ag75 said:


> Does the Ravenscroft 275 ever go on sale?


Usually and consistently every black friday (the day itself, not the week preceding it).


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## keepitsimple (Nov 23, 2020)

To add to what's been generously advised in this thread, maybe those videos can help you further with your decision.


- Garritan CFX :






- Ravenscroft 275:





- NOIRE:





- Simple Sam Steinway: 





- A fun shootout:


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## Tim_Wells (Nov 24, 2020)

It's clear that piano is a very subjective and personal choice. In addition to the sound, _the way you play_ may be the determining factor. The velocity that you hit the keys in different registers, the notes you let ring, the voicing of chords, etc., etc., all impact your perception.

I'll listen to demo and think - "man, that sounds awesome!" But on further reflection I realize that I don't play the piano anything like that. I'm basically a nightclub guitarist who's a self-taught piano player. That's gotta be a totally different perspective than someone with classical training.

The one thing that my limited piano library has taught me (basically all the NI libraries), is there are a lot of piano libraries I do not gel with. Out of the whole batch there's only one and in my particular case, that's The Grandeur. That scares me about pulling the string on another library that I haven't had a chance to try.


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## Dietz (Nov 24, 2020)

khollister said:


> The Synchron CFX doesn't do it for me - too clangy, sounds like a C7 to me


Funny you say that. The CFX was in fact the very first_*)_ sampled grand that literally sent shivers down my spine just by listening to a few connected notes. 

_*) ... well, the first one after that initial shock in the early 80ies, when I got my first Ensoniq Mirage 8-bit sampler with its 350 kB "Piano" factory preset. ;-D_


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## re-peat (Nov 24, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> The Galaxy Vintage D is just not doing it for me. I bought it based on so many people writing about how useful and "go-to" it is but I find that it leaves me feeling completely cold and stiff.



I guess we each expect different things from a (virtual) piano, Ásta. Unless I’m misreading you, you want your pianosound — and the way it sits in the mix — to be above all a stylistically fitting presence in the music you have in mind — perfectly valid viewpoint of course (which, when the music calls for it, I follow as well) — whereas I usually prefer my virtual pianos to be impersonal, unassuming but hopefully somewhat believable renderers of the _abstract idea ‘_piano’. No matter what music I might be giving it.

And that’s also why the VintageD, in all its unexciting but rather nice-sounding neutrality, has always appealed to me so much: it doesn’t impose itself on the music, it doesn’t draw attention to itself, it stays out of the music’s way, it doesn’t add its own crippled voice to what the music is already saying. (And moreover, to my ears, the VintageD is also capable of expressing much more with its 13 velocity layers than many other sampled instruments which have two, three times the number of velocity layers, or even more, can. Exceptionally musically sampled and assembled, I find, this Galaxy instrument.)

But I don’t have any higher expectations than that, I must say. After all, at this point in time, virtual pianos — even the alledged ‘best’ ones — are still only capable of convincingly simulating, say, 15% of what a well-maintained, well-recorded and well-played real instrument will bring to a recording. Which explains why playing and working with virtual pianos — all of them — is more often than not an excercise in coping with frustration for me. (I can’t, for example, think of a single one I find good enough to record solo piano music with.)

Another thing I find very important is playability. Playability means different things to different people. Usually, it is used to describe the way an instrument responds to one’s playing — which is why software like Pianoteq invariably gets high marks for playability — but to me, a big part of playability is also that I don’t want to be distracted by any peculiarities an instrument might have. Distraction means loss of concentration and ‘being in the moment’. (If, for instance, there are certain aspects of Pianoteq’s sound that you find off-putting, the instrument may be as responsive as can be, but it will still distract you during playing, and thus the playability is compromised. (I have that experience with the Synchron pianos. I’ve got two of those and dislike them both immensely as I am constantly distracted by what, to my ears anyway, are major timbral, sonic and musical flaws. But I’m virtually alone with this opinion, so don’t take too much notice of it.)

Also a good example of a playability problem is something which I encounter in almost all sampled pianos, and that is: dynamic inconsistencies in harmonic colouring, due to uneven sampling or slap-dash programming. When, for instance, you play a chord in one dynamic layer and then play it in a different dynamic layer and it sounds like it’s voiced differently. Hate that. Say you play a Dmin9. The ‘C’ of this chord (the 7th) might be perfectly balanced in the mezzo-piano layer, but too present or not present enough in the mezzo-forte layer, giving the same chord a different harmonic colour in different dynamic layers. Not good. Or bass notes that have the right weight in the lower dynamics, but not the necessary weight in the higher ones. Or the inevitable rough velocity transitions, inconsistent timbres, certain notes that stick out, … Dozens of things. And once I’ve heard them, I can’t unhear them, and from then on, the playability is fatally affected.

Anyway, that’s just me of course. All of the above might well not be of any relevance whatsoever for most other people when choosing a virtual piano. They matter rather a lot to me though.

But based on the audio reference you’ve provided and on what you’ve written, I do believe you’ve made an excellent choice picking the Noire. Very inspiring and creatively satisfying pianoïd.

_


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## Kirk1701 (Nov 24, 2020)

I haven't read the entire thread (8 pages is a lot), but for the price, I think the OP should check out Production Voices' pianos. I love to promote Canadian companies and these guys have a very unique tonal palatte. The Estate Grand in particular is unlike anything else I've seen, but they have a bit of everything really.






Production Voices Main | Production Voices


Production Voices records piano sample libraries the way professional studios record pianos. The result is true production quality recordings from piano samples.




www.productionvoices.com


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 24, 2020)

I finally started working with the Bosendorfer Imperial from Synchron Pianos last night, tweaking the mics and settings to come up with two starting-point templates for orchestral use and somewhat smaller contexts in chamber ensembles or solo highlighting.

I'm too happy with my other VSL Pianos to go back and revisit almost-finished projects, but I did find a couple of C. Bechstein Digital rendered tracks that benefitted a bit in articulateness and timbral balance as well as mix placement when switching to Synchron Bos. Enough so that I may specifically revisit some of THOSE tracks. I am finding especially that it works well for orchestral settings and impressionism.


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## CGR (Nov 24, 2020)

Mark Schmieder said:


> I finally started working with the Bosendorfer Imperial from Synchron Pianos last night, tweaking the mics and settings to come up with two starting-point templates for orchestral use and somewhat smaller contexts in chamber ensembles or solo highlighting.
> 
> I'm too happy with my other VSL Pianos to go back and revisit almost-finished projects, but I did find a couple of C. Bechstein Digital rendered tracks that benefitted a bit in articulateness and timbral balance as well as mix placement when switching to Synchron Bos. Enough so that I may specifically revisit some of THOSE tracks. I am finding especially that it works well for orchestral settings and impressionism.


What is your preference between the VSL Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial and Synchron Steinway D Mark?


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## Mark Schmieder (Nov 24, 2020)

I find the Steinway somewhat darker, which surprises me as the VSL Bos is darker than most such libraries. The Bos is perhaps a bit more "forward" (i.e. assertive) with similar mic balances while also sounding like it has slightly more natural ambience -- maybe due to the actual instrument's extended range and the additional sympathetic resonance that comes from the lower octave?


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 24, 2020)

VSriHarsha said:


> Hey @Ásta Jónsdóttir
> 
> What you think about Spitfire’s Orchestral Grand? It’s just $49? but I heard few good things about it. Although, I also heard people complaining about its dynamic layers. Check for yourself.
> 
> ...


Hi VSriHarsha,

I took a good listen to Spitfire's Orchestral Grand piano last spring when I was purchasing several Spitfire libraries during their spring sale. I thought it sounded good, similar to the sound of the Hans Zimmer piano in some ways but it had the sound of the room sort of built into it, not meant to be taken away really. I think this piano would work great in the context of full orchestra but not sure it would be right for more intimate sounds. The sound I am going for as you may have heard in my reference song is a little more intimate while having enough size and detail to work in a dense mix with other instruments. 

Thank you for your suggestions. It is much appreciated! I will check out Fort3.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 24, 2020)

keepitsimple said:


> To add to what's been generously advised in this thread, maybe those videos can help you further with your decision.
> 
> 
> - Garritan CFX :
> ...



Hi Rabih,

First of all, absolutely beautiful playing sir! I love your style and how you sometimes hint just a touch in the direction of Jazz in your otherwise modern classical sound. Such emotional and melancholy music you are playing with an extra level of depth into some of the darker corners of the human soul. I could listen to you play for hours.

Thank you for sharing your videos. This is a great comparison. Again, Noire stood out to me. There is something magical about that piano and the way the notes are delivered that speaks to my soul. It has an emotional sound built into it. It was my favorite out of all the ones you played.

The Garriton CFX was my second favorite. The thing about the CFX is that the sound of it is quite bold and regal. The sound of the CFX is what I would describe as sounding proud or triumphant. I could see that piano working great in Hollywood soundtracks. For me, it just doesn't have the sensitivity that Noire has.

NI Noire is the kind of piano that whispers its way into your heart.

Garritan CFX is a piano that says "I'm here baby! Let's do this!"

The Simple Sam was my third favorite. There is something about the sound of it in your examples that makes it sound like it would make a great piano for film underscoring but not necessarily a sound that has enough personality to work best in the foreground if that makes any sense.

I have heard Ravenscroft before many times. When I purchased the Galaxy Vintage D a few years ago, the Ravenscroft was one of it's main competitors. In many threads people were comparing the two. What I found to be true about the Ravenscroft, and I have noticed this in every single example I have heard of it, is that it has a very hammer attack centric sound at its core. If you do not like the heavy hammer attack then Ravenscroft is not the piano for you.

I found the Keyscape piano a bit lifeless compared to the other two.

Noire also has some heavy hammer sound to it but it can be manipulated to sound softer while maintaining the weighty sound that adds so much emotion and depth.

Thank you again for sharing these videos Rabih. It further points me towards Noire.


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 24, 2020)

Tim_Wells said:


> It's clear that piano is a very subjective and personal choice. In addition to the sound, _the way you play_ may be the determining factor. The velocity that you hit the keys in different registers, the notes you let ring, the voicing of chords, etc., etc., all impact your perception.
> 
> I'll listen to demo and think - "man, that sounds awesome!" But on further reflection I realize that I don't play the piano anything like that. I'm basically a nightclub guitarist who's a self-taught piano player. That's gotta be a totally different perspective than someone with classical training.
> 
> The one thing that my limited piano library has taught me (basically all the NI libraries), is there are a lot of piano libraries I do not gel with. Out of the whole batch there's only one and in my particular case, that's The Grandeur. That scares me about pulling the string on another library that I haven't had a chance to try.


Hi Tim,

I hope you're doing well. 

Sample Library choice is indeed very subjective and depends on the perspective of the individual. We all hear things and feel things differently. Some of us are more introspective people while others say every single word that comes to their mind. 

I have read other posts where people try different pianos but come back to The Grandeur as they feel it just fits into the work they are doing so you're not alone!


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 24, 2020)

re-peat said:


> I guess we each expect different things from a (virtual) piano, Ásta. Unless I’m misreading you, you want your pianosound — and the way it sits in the mix — to be above all a stylistically fitting presence in the music you have in mind — perfectly valid viewpoint of course (which, when the music calls for it, I follow as well) — whereas I usually prefer my virtual pianos to be impersonal, unassuming but hopefully somewhat believable renderers of the _abstract idea ‘_piano’. No matter what music I might be giving it.
> 
> And that’s also why the VintageD, in all its unexciting but rather nice-sounding neutrality, has always appealed to me so much: it doesn’t impose itself on the music, it doesn’t draw attention to itself, it stays out of the music’s way, it doesn’t add its own crippled voice to what the music is already saying. (And moreover, to my ears, the VintageD is also capable of expressing much more with its 13 velocity layers than many other sampled instruments which have two, three times the number of velocity layers, or even more, can. Exceptionally musically sampled and assembled, I find, this Galaxy instrument.)
> 
> ...


Hi Re-peat,

Very wise words. Thank you kindly for that and for your vote of confidence in Noire as an excellent choice. Fingers crossed 

Playability is important to me. I found True Pianos to have better playability than Galaxy Vintage D. I felt like the timbre of Vintage D was a little more musical with less of that fake and very uniform hammer/attack sound that the modeled pianos have. I do like the way that True Pianos responds to the touch.

Noire, I am hoping will open a door to something beyond both of these.


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## ptram (Nov 24, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> After 48 hours on Piano Library Safari, the most "aha!" moment for me is when I heard forum member Mikrokosmiko playing the part from this song I posted as a reference using the NI NOIRE piano. Noire seems to have almost the exact same sound as the recording.



Noire might not be my choice for a general-use piano, but for the style you are after it seems the best choice to me. You can get this type of sound from more standard pianos, but you will then have to do a lot of work to make it sound as you want.

And, as general-use piano, it is not even bad. And it should cost very little now.

Paolo


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Nov 24, 2020)

*Takk allir!*

Serendipitous Creativity

I love how this community encourages curiosity between people who work in different musical disciplines. I am still a student. Learning, practicing and developing my craft. I feel very fortunate to be able to come here and bump into people who are smart. This is how new ideas emerge!


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## VSriHarsha (Nov 25, 2020)

Ásta Jónsdóttir said:


> Hi VSriHarsha,
> 
> I took a good listen to Spitfire's Orchestral Grand piano last spring when I was purchasing several Spitfire libraries during their spring sale. I thought it sounded good, similar to the sound of the Hans Zimmer piano in some ways but it had the sound of the room sort of built into it, not meant to be taken away really. I think this piano would work great in the context of full orchestra but not sure it would be right for more intimate sounds. The sound I am going for as you may have heard in my reference song is a little more intimate while having enough size and detail to work in a dense mix with other instruments.
> 
> Thank you for your suggestions. It is much appreciated! I will check out Fort3.


Thanks @Ásta Jónsdóttir.

Yea, that’s what I thought too I heard the Orchestral Grand samples. I never checked the Embertone’s Concert Grand but I am thinking about it. Have you heard that? I don’t know if it’s kinda intimate in sound or more of a Grand-ish. And it has this lite version too, which is so damn tempting. I’ll check the demos.


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## Maxime Luft (Nov 27, 2020)

A minor said:


> May I suggest another alternative: Orchestral Tools -
> *Vivid Keys*
> *Versatile Studio Grand*
> The warm, organic sound of a classic grand piano—in vivid detail.
> ...


Now that's a great suggestion


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## Ásta Jónsdóttir (Dec 3, 2020)

Halló!

I wanted to write a note to say thank you! 

NOIRE is absolutely perfect and amazing. 

The purchase was made last week on winter sale for $74 which I think is a great price for this!

What a beautiful, expressive and emotional sounding piano. The realism is so much higher than any sample instrument I have yet played. 

The Particles Engine is fun and cool. What I love most is that this is just two sample instruments, the Pure and the Felt. Secret Sounds buried within Noire are yours to discover. Once you begin to really go deep, the various parameters and special effects can bring about the magical and the unbelievable. 

I have been able to achieve everything from the expected punchy/bright Yamaha grand to something that sound so sensitive, intimate, delicate yet strong with conviction. Also, I was able to create a sound similar in feel to Soundiron's Emotional Piano but Noire does it better, and with more a more "Emotional" sound... better dynamics, and without the "honk". Soundiron Emotional Piano is very honky and boxy sounding and generally takes up much too much space to fit neatly into a dense mix of instruments.

What I love about Noire is that I can get a sound where the weight of the hammers hitting the strings is solid which creates that deep emotional sound, then to take it further, Noire has the unique ability to really change the character of the tone so that it never sounds harsh or boxy or too huge to fit into any genre of music. Noire is truly a versatile tool. 

The built in algorithmic and impulse response reverb engine sound great and so does the delay engine.

Noire is a one stop creative piano shop.

I can already see myself deleting Soundiron Emotional Piano and Galaxy Vintage D from my Kontakt instruments library. I do not believe that I will need a piano other than Noire. I might not even need the Spitfire Felt piano anymore either. 

My ears and my body love the way it feels ❤


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## leondespair (Dec 20, 2020)

Kirk1701 said:


> I haven't read the entire thread (8 pages is a lot), but for the price, I think the OP should check out Production Voices' pianos. I love to promote Canadian companies and these guys have a very unique tonal palatte. The Estate Grand in particular is unlike anything else I've seen, but they have a bit of everything really.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent recommendation!


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## cqd (Aug 17, 2021)

@fan455 That gentle keys does really stand up against a lot of pianos that are a lot more expensive alright..
A while ago I played off a lot of pianos against each other, and the gentle keys really surprised me..and cost me like e10..


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