# Anybody using serum? If so, for what?



## LML88 (Dec 24, 2016)

hi,

I started off in sound design and music production before I got into orchestral composition.

I was wondering if anybody is using the excellent synth Serum in their compositions?
Being I think just about the most versatile synth I know of, I'm sure there'd be a ton of sound design possibilities for this sort of music.
It's something I'm yet to explore yet.


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## Arbee (Dec 24, 2016)

Hi,

You may be better off posting this in the dedicated forum e.g. this thread http://vi-control.net/community/threads/the-xfer-serum-synth-thread.58265/

I'm not sure I'd call Serum versatile by default. While it can be, its strength to me is in its unique digital sound. I've only just discovered Serum but others over on the dedicated forum are well equipped to answer your question. I'm exploring Serum as something to differentiate more distinctly from orchestral samples.


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## Tysmall (Dec 24, 2016)

Serum is hands down the most capable synth on the market and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. It can do anything i can think of besides granular synthesis.

Give me a sound and I can make it in serum. pm if you want to nerd out with details.


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## StatKsn (Dec 25, 2016)

For some reason I can't really explain (because you can use any waveform you want) I am not personally fond of Serum's general sound character which tends to be a bit oversaturated (PCM-y, blocky, if any expression helps) on the mid-high range. It's less digital-sounding than Massive for sure, but bothers me quite a bit when I try to do a stacked supersaw-type sound with Serum. Sure I can use the soft low-pass filter and pulse it a bit, or simply use a multiband limiter to desaturate mid-high, but still. I do like its delay fx.

Any idea I might be doing wrong, or something I could do with it? I'd really love to love Serum.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 25, 2016)

Serum came out a relatively short while ago and became very popular due to its marketing to the EDM crowd. I bought it upon release and sold it six months later, because I was unhappy with its limited scope.

Serum is pretty darn good for midrange to high sounds, and if you're into the aforementioned dance genre it can come in handy, especially when teamed with something like Trillian or Diva for the other end of the sound spectrum. I've done music for sci-fi oriented productions with it as well, so it's also fine for that.

But, if you're looking for that weighty, "present"/analogue sound, look elsewhere, as Serum doesn't jump out at the listener with its sound, there's not much of what I refer to as an "animated" tone. Even expert eq'ing will never give you the right out of the box muscle of, say, Zebra HZ. To be fair, it was never marketed to be anything but a quintessentially digital-sounding synth. So there's that.

Put it this way, when I want super subby low end and heaviness, I reach for the aforementioned HZ, Trillian, or XILS IV. Serum is strikingly deficient in that area, with the low end sounding muffled and, well, blah (strange as that might seem for what's widely regarded as a dance music synth). Granted, that sound can be super useful in certain contexts, so if you predict a need for that, Serum is a great way to go.

I also don't like the filters for the most part (the French and German are fine), to my ears they give off a sterile, flat (purely digital) vanilla sound.

I certainly wouldn't have it as a go to, as my sound horizon would shrink substantially. Despite what others have said, it's a niche synth, best when complemented by others. Good if you already have Omnisphere and/or Zebra.


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## JohannesR (Dec 25, 2016)

I agree with the posts above.

Serum sounds, dare I say digital? And that's why I love it. A perfect companion to Omni, Diva and Zebra which are my other go-to synths. When I need something mid-range-y that really cuts through the mix, Serum is just great.

A little EDM-ish-sounding, which can be just great if you're doing hybrid stuff.


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## LML88 (Dec 25, 2016)

I spent a good several years working with Zebra. It was pretty powerful, but I don't think anything particularly special.
Each to there own, depends what you're doing;
The distinction between the orchestral, organic sounds and the Digital ones that others seem to dislike is exactly what I thought was good about it Serum...

As others have said it cuts through very well in the midrange.
I can't say I particularly have enough room for something analog and subby on the frequency spectrum with trailer style music.


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## Tysmall (Dec 25, 2016)

Merry christmas everyone.
For anyone that's interested let me provide a technical nerd analysis for everything addressed itt.
Steve took an insane amount of time trying to make the "cleanest" sound for his sine waves possible. if I wasnt on my phone with my family id link one of the plethora of youtube video comparing softsynths on a frequency analyzer.
Serum has so little artifacts in its waveforms it sounds unnatural actually. Hence the "digital" sound or the reason it cuts through a mix in the mids. (Think of when you compress a sound you are raising the levels of everything, with serum there are no trash frequencies muffling the transients so there is arguably more punch to the sound).

Now this is either good or bad depending on taste.

BUT! And excuse me condensing this down and I invite you to watch deadmau5s masterclass for a validity check on my nonsensical rant. Serum can also get the most true to analogue to any software I know of.
Steve also hired a mathematician to write his upsampling algorithms. This is important. In short all software is only capable of moving across a frequency spectrum in steps. This is the shortcoming of all softsynths is they do not smoothly modulate through a frequency band (fm synthesis) like analogue does. This insane upsampling algorithm allows for the smoothest "sweeps" available hence the popularity in edm where people are making skrillex growls (I know so 2011 for any edm listeners here). 

But in short not only is serum the cleanest it also addresses the biggest issue with softsynths today which is not being true to analogue which our ears have been fed exclusively for the last 100 years.

Other concerns itt about the lowend etc stem from the clean waveform thesis presented earlier in my opinion. The built in distortion module is great for gritting up the sound. You could use a tape plugin too.. mb comp anything really. I invite you to look at a freq analysis of serum and say zebra (or ni monark which is my favorite grit synth) and see the difference in artifacts I am presenting.

Again its 7am and im on my phone excuse anything that doesn't make sense. Id be glad to offer any ideas as work arounds to anyone's concerns in serum and ps I don't work for steve I just absolutely love this shit and study it all day.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 25, 2016)

LML88 said:


> I spent a good several years working with Zebra. It was pretty powerful, but I don't think anything particularly special.
> Each to there own, depends what you're doing;
> The distinction between the orchestral, organic sounds and the Digital ones that others seem to dislike is exactly what I thought was good about it Serum...
> 
> ...



You have good points, but with all respect I can't help asking: why would you spend several years working with Zebra if you didn't think it was anything particularly special? There wasn't another synth that fit that description?

There's been such a huge range of synths over the years. I have to apologize, but that one point is nonsensical to me. No offense meant in the slightest. Perhaps you worded it wrong.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 25, 2016)

And don't get me wrong, I ended up "renting" Serum from Splice exactly for that midrangey, quasi-robotic thing for am industrial project I was commissioned for a couple of months back, and was impressed with the updates. It's rare that a developer is as conscientious about upgrading their product so regularly, which makes Xfer an especially admirable company.

I feel as though I emphasized the negative in Serum too much. Let's not forget the freaking incredible modulation options for the effects (though I'm not particularly wild about the effects themselves). I'm interested in checking out the Serum fx newbie plugin too, so I might give the synth another Splice rental soon just to check that out.

Please allow me to be clearer on this: Serum can be a terrific addition to an already started synth arsenal, and for what it does it is a powerful tool.

Oh and Merry Christmas!


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## LML88 (Dec 25, 2016)

Tysmall said:


> Merry christmas everyone.
> For anyone that's interested let me provide a technical nerd analysis for everything addressed itt.
> Steve took an insane amount of time trying to make the "cleanest" sound for his sine waves possible. if I wasnt on my phone with my family id link one of the plethora of youtube video comparing softsynths on a frequency analyzer.
> Serum has so little artifacts in its waveforms it sounds unnatural actually. Hence the "digital" sound or the reason it cuts through a mix in the mids. (Think of when you compress a sound you are raising the levels of everything, with serum there are no trash frequencies muffling the transients so there is arguably more punch to the sound).
> ...



That is a point I'd forgotten - Serum's sound is definitely the cleanest I've ever heard.
And to me, that's one of the aspects that makes it great; it cuts through where others don't.


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## LML88 (Dec 25, 2016)

Parsifal666 said:


> You have good points, but with all respect I can't help asking: why would you spend several years working with Zebra if you didn't think it was anything particularly special? There wasn't another since that fit that description?
> 
> There's been such a huge range of synths over the years. I have to apologize, but that one point is nonsensical to me. No offense meant in the slightest. Perhaps you worded it wrong.



No offence taken at all! 

Yes I should've mentioned - my time with Zebra was spent when I was at college for three years and that was the only capable synth at the time they had licence for on all of the computers. Their focuses were on other types of software mainly for recording music and sound design was an after thought, so they didn't have a large array of software.

I did enjoy using it, but I just prefer Serum.


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## LML88 (Dec 25, 2016)

just out of curiosity, which sort of sounds are the majority of you designing for orchestral music?
As has been mentioned the deeper analog sounds seem favoured.
What sort of stuff of you doing?

With Serum, as I've said, the contrast between the orchestral elements and the harsher digital sounds serves me very well for trailer style music.

And yes, merry christmas everyone!


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## StatKsn (Dec 25, 2016)

I actually find it is kind of difficult to do good ole Deaumau5-like stacked chord synth with Serum due to the aformentioned mid-high punch. For more hardcore sound (like growl, chippy future bass synth, etc) it IS good, but of course hardcore in-your-face growl is kind of 2013 and now is the age of chill, sort of  electronic music changes everything every year.

I really hate to badmouth Serum though. I do think it has a fantastic engine and won't stop using it.


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## Tysmall (Dec 25, 2016)

Statksn I am just basking in the irony of this considering deadmau5 pretty much only uses serum and hardware for his new stuff.  I can understand what you mean though I like sylenth for supersaws.

And lml I will literally use anything from a multisynth frankenstein patch with 10 modulations to a saw wave. Depends on what the track needs that I feel "real" instruments can't comment on. I actually make it my mission to put the weirdest sounds in my music and orchestrate them in well enough that my listener has limited moments of projectile vomit. The secret is reverb and bandpass filters if you were wanting a little christmas knowledge.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 25, 2016)

LML88 said:


> just out of curiosity, which sort of sounds are the majority of you designing for orchestral music?
> As has been mentioned the deeper analog sounds seem favoured.
> What sort of stuff of you doing?
> 
> ...



That is always an interesting subject here imo. You might want to start a new topic just about that (I'd certainly check it out).


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## StatKsn (Dec 25, 2016)

Tysmall, I do understand your points. I am also a computer and digital synth nerd after all  but everytime I play with Serum I get frustrated because it doesn't cooperate with gritty me ;_;

Also some tips for anybody new to Serum: Basic shapes are sooooooo clean. Modulating PWM with basic shapes helps analogifying the sound.


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## EvilDragon (Dec 25, 2016)

Serum sounds really clean indeed. But positing that it can sound the most analog out of all softsynths is just not true. It cannot do this with conviction of Diva, TAL, Xils, and most recently l, RePro1 (which is THE most analog sounding plugin as of yet, if you still think Serum can do this as convincingly, sorry but you're wrong).

It's a great addition to anyone's sound toolbox, yes, but it is NOT a do-it-all synth. It doesn't do physical modeling for example (well, nothing more complex than Karplus-Strong via comb filters, but that's some very outdated physmod really), and yeah, no granular or modal synthesis either, or additive in the way Razor does it, for example.

Serum is many things, but ultimately analog-sounding, it is not.


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## Parsifal666 (Dec 25, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Serum sounds really clean indeed. But positing that it can sound the most analog out of all softsynths is just not true. It cannot do this with conviction of Diva, TAL, Xils, and most recently l, RePro1 (which is THE most analog sounding plugin as of yet, if you still think Serum can do this as convincingly, sorry but you're wrong).
> 
> It's a great addition to anyone's sound toolbox, yes, but it is NOT a do-it-all synth. It doesn't do physical modeling for example (well, nothing more complex than Karplus-Strong via comb filters, but that's some very outdated physmod really), and yeah, no granular or modal synthesis either, or additive in the way Razor does it, for example.
> 
> Serum is many things, but ultimately analog-sounding, it is not.



I must mention, all one has to do is demo XILS IV, go to the bass presets (for example) and listen. To remain completely fair, Serum has never_ advertised_ itself as an analogue emulation.

It's just that when the term "does it all" comes up in regard to this synth, I doesn't hold up. Despite the fact that there are some amazing things Serum IS capable of; if I were to, say, commission someone for a piece that needed that weighty, analogue synth presence, Serum wouldn't even be on the table. There are too many synths that are _for _that. Even some synths that aren't specialized toward that sound are quite capable of doing analogue well when messed with. ED mentioned a couple above, plus Zebra/HZ, and I'm going to include both Omnisphere and Synthmaster in this last list, though I personally don't care for them much.

But hey,all this might trigger a week long, already tired-as-hell debate about analogue vs digital, and maybe I've taken it too far already.


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## Tysmall (Dec 25, 2016)

EvilDragon said:


> Serum sounds really clean indeed. But positing that it can sound the most analog out of all softsynths is just not true.


RePro sounds amazing, thanks for sharing. I would argue that I could get pretty close to those sounds in serum (granted with a lot more work). But respect given where it should be the filters on RePro sound even better than serum's oversampling turned all the way up. I don't even hear the steps in some of those arps in the demo. 

May I ask the cpu hit if you do own it? I'm trying to wrap my head around how they get the smoothness without just insane amounts of processing.


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## EvilDragon (Dec 25, 2016)

Repro is monophonic ONLY, CPU hit is about 2-6% on my [email protected], depending on patch complexity, resonance amount, FX used.

Repro has RIDICULOUS parameter ranges (10 octaves of filter FM! Filter cutoff above 40 kHz!) Jaws wavefolder effect runs internally at 384k, etc.

That's why it sounds like it does, and why Serum can't quite touch THAT side of analog. Not to mention audio-rate modulation with also huge mod amounts, possibility of an oscillator to modulate it's own PWM... It's crazy.


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## StatKsn (Dec 25, 2016)

Repro is ridiculous. It's like a grit-minded guy's modulation paradise. And then it is somewhat lighter on the CPU than Diva (in general, anyway). Of course nothing is perfect. It doesn't have Serum's waveform write-and-morph function, so...


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## EvilDragon (Dec 25, 2016)

Because that is not what it's for. Just like how Serum is not for the utmost in analog emulation, but rather surgical precision in waveform rendition (and it's unsurpassed in that).


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## StatKsn (Dec 25, 2016)

Yeah. Serum seems to work really good when I EXACTLY know what I want to do (hence the problem with me because I mostly wander around).


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## Patrick de Caumette (Dec 25, 2016)

A bit off topic, sorry: a couple of weeks ago there was a thread that I cannot find that listed a few recommended sound packs for SERUM.
Anyone knows what thread I am talking about, or can recommend some of the best packs?
Thanks!


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## LML88 (Dec 25, 2016)

There's obviously a lot, lot more people using synthesis in there music than I thought, which is exciting.

Clearly a strong case can be made for many of the big synths on the market in regards to composing. 
It'd be interesting to explore the analog stuff and how everyone is using this stuff.

I shall put up another thread at some point in the near future..


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## LML88 (Dec 25, 2016)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> A bit off topic, sorry: a couple of weeks ago there was a thread that I cannot find that listed a few recommended sound packs for SERUM.
> Anyone knows what thread I am talking about, or can recommend some of the best packs?
> Thanks!



It probably won't be in the sample talk section; to be honest I accedentally placed this thread in the wrong section!


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## EvilDragon (Dec 25, 2016)

Yep, a moderator should move it to the new VI/synth subforum.


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## Arbee (Dec 25, 2016)

Patrick de Caumette said:


> A bit off topic, sorry: a couple of weeks ago there was a thread that I cannot find that listed a few recommended sound packs for SERUM.
> Anyone knows what thread I am talking about, or can recommend some of the best packs?
> Thanks!


Hi Patrick, it might have been this one I started http://vi-control.net/community/threads/my-next-synth-serum-hive-or-dune-2.58171/, there are a few soundset recommendations in there.

Since then I've also come across this one which I particularly like the sound of: 

Just to add to the general analogue v digital debate, there must be something wrong with me. To me, be it recordings or synths, analogue is not the aspirational holy grail at all. Digital just adds a whole other dimension to the modern sound palette the way I see it.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Dec 25, 2016)

LML88 said:


> It probably won't be in the sample talk section; to be honest I accedentally placed this thread in the wrong section!


Oh no, I meant my post was a bit of topic, not yours!


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## Patrick de Caumette (Dec 25, 2016)

Arbee said:


> Hi Patrick, it might have been this one I started http://vi-control.net/community/threads/my-next-synth-serum-hive-or-dune-2.58171/, there are a few soundset recommendations in there.
> 
> Since then I've also come across this one which I particularly like the sound of:
> 
> Just to add to the general analogue v digital debate, there must be something wrong with me. To me, be it recordings or synths, analogue is not the aspirational holy grail at all. Digital just adds a whole other dimension to the modern sound palette the way I see it.



That's it, thanks Arbee!


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## synthpunk (Dec 25, 2016)

Now moved

I really agree with all the comments here about Serum.

I would say most people love it or hate it.

It's very pristine & Hi-Fi sounding I would also add the ability to import wave tables, noises, and lfo shapes for advanced programming can be useful.

I use it as a modern wavetable synth that replaced PPG V3 and for some more modern sounding Kyma type stuff.

Check back during the week and I will list a few of my favorite Soundsets.


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## synthpunk (Dec 26, 2016)

Firstly it's worth mentioning in any Serum thread the Splice. $9.99 a month payment plan for Serum if you don't want to put out the entire price for Serum at once this is well worth it and you can cancel and restart and stop anytime you want. Once you fully pay it off it's yours.
https://splice.com/plugins/15493-serum-vst-au-by-xfer-records

You also now receive a copy of Serum FX which can be a useful plugin effects rack for your other tracks and instruments.

If you want to do your own Advanced programming I highly recommend the Galbanum wavetables.
http://www.galbanum.com/products/architecturewaveforms2010

A few of my favorite Serum Soundsets...

http://www.zensound.es/soundsets/serum-sagittarius/

https://originsofaudio.com/product/badblood/

http://eclipse-sound.com/56/17/serum/dark-prairie56-detail

http://eclipse-sound.com/46/17/serum/artmosphere46-detail

http://www.sampleria.com/artfx-studios-releases-cinematic-creations-serum/

http://sound.artenuovo.com/warmed.html

http://samiyounes.com/sound_design/serum_vol1.html


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