# Why do people get so defensive about the DAW they end up choosing?



## easyrider (Nov 15, 2021)

I have:

Mixbus 32c
Pro Tools
Studio One 5
Cubase 10.5
Reaper 6
Reason 12

I use S1 the majority of the time and use the Rack from Reason. I’m not particularly loyal to any of these DAWs.But a lot of people are and defend their choice with upmost vigour. Why is this?

What do people gain from dissing other peoples choices?

They are just tools at the end of the day.


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## robh (Nov 15, 2021)

Perhaps we sub-consciously see the tools as an extension of ourselves - our creativity. So, to attack the tool is in someway an attack on us.

But really, it's because mine is better than yours. 

Rob


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## nolotrippen (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I have:
> 
> Mixbus 32c
> Pro Tools
> ...


How dare you!!!!!!!


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## Markrs (Nov 15, 2021)

I think DAWs can be quite a personal thing as they relate to workflow. I have:

Reaper 6
Cakewalk
Cubase 10.5
Studio One 5 Artist
Mixcraft 9.5
Reaper is the only one I use at the moment. It isn't perfect and I keep meaning to try others as it lack intuitiveness when use JS or action scripts for some functions. However it is very customizable.


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## Crowe (Nov 15, 2021)

Lol. For the same reason people get defensive about the Cola they drink, the shoes they wear, the laptops they use, the phones they buy and the toys they insert.

EDIT:
The post directly below this one has the serious (and generally correct) answer.


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## mybadmemory (Nov 15, 2021)

I think people do this with everything in life. Pc vs Mac. Nintendo vs Sega. Logic vs Cubase. BBCSO vs Nucleus. Kids vs no kids. Education vs no education. I believe people generally feel that choices are an extension of their personality, and we tend to want to motivate and defend the choices we do in life as having done the right choice. Partly by saying that other choices are not as good.


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## quickbrownf0x (Nov 15, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I think DAWs can be quite a personal thing as they relate to workflow. I have:
> 
> Reaper 6
> Cakewalk
> ...


Did they have a sale, @Markrs ? ...................


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## Markrs (Nov 15, 2021)

quickbrownf0x said:


> Did they have a sale, @Markrs ? ...................


You know me to well Mixcraft and studio one artist were about £10 each, Cubase was 50% off (Artist to Pro free upgrade) and Cakewalk is free. However I did pay full price for Reaper, but that is only $60 😝


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## David Chappell (Nov 15, 2021)




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## PaulieDC (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I have:
> 
> Mixbus 32c
> Pro Tools
> ...


Exactly my question when an Android user starts berating me for using an iPhone. I think we just need to respond the way we did growing up in NJ... put on your best east coast accent and say "Whatzit to YOU??"

As for a DAW, it might just be that after we invest 17 million in the software and all the libraries, we have to insist ours is the best so we don't feel like idiots.


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## MarcusD (Nov 15, 2021)

The day will come when developers join forces and merge their creations...

StuBase
CakeMix
ReaAbleton
FruityBand
LogTools


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## Markrs (Nov 15, 2021)

I wonder if you wanted to create a Frankenstein's Monster DAW from parts from all the different DAWs which parts would you choose.

For customisation and extensibility I would have to pick Reaper. For UI and ease of use, probably Sudio One.


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## youngpokie (Nov 15, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> we tend to want to motivate and defend the choices we do in life as having done the right choice


Yes! Plus the hundreds of hours I invested into really learning Cubase- that increases it’s value to me by a lot


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## MarcusD (Nov 15, 2021)

Surely if we assemble a cracking team of top-notch coders, we could mush them all together into one, and call it ....


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## quickbrownf0x (Nov 15, 2021)

MarcusD said:


> The day will come when developers join forces and merge their creations...
> 
> StuBase
> CakeMix
> ...


The new FruityCuCakeBandMix.... Studio Pro 12. Artist Edition. It has fancy new licensing and it's pretty darn tasty.  Microsoft is going to buy this for 10 billion and mess it up in about 2 years. Garantueed. 5 years down the line they'll probably call it The Big Fender Bender.


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## easyrider (Nov 15, 2021)

youngpokie said:


> Yes! Plus the hundreds of hours I invested into really learning Cubase- that increases it’s value to me by a lot


Yeah but just because you have invested your time in Cubase doesn’t mean the other options are bad…..


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## MarcusD (Nov 15, 2021)

quickbrownf0x said:


> The new FruityCuCakeBandMix.... Studio Pro 12. Artist Edition. It has fancy new licensing and it's pretty darn tasty.  Microsoft is going to buy this for 10 billion and mess it up in about 2 years. Garantueed. 5 years down the line they'll probably call it The Big Fender Bender.



Better start registering domain names and trade marks, before someone else beats us to it! 

EDIT: if we encounter any problems, we'll weaponise our elite team of coders to create the ultimate weapon...


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## Geoff Moore (Nov 15, 2021)

MarcusD said:


> FruityBand


Already a thing! FL Studio can run as a plugin as well as a DAW, it's awesome. I use it inside of Studio One so I can get its insane modular VST/midi routing capabilities within a more 'traditional' composing environment.


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## quickbrownf0x (Nov 15, 2021)

MarcusD said:


> Better start registering domain names and trade marks, before someone else beats us to it!


On it! Aaaaaand...... done








This guy btw has the face of a u-he sales rep when asked when Zebra3 will come out.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> What do people gain from dissing other peoples choices?
> 
> They are just tools at the end of the day.


Probably the same reason some people (nudge nudge, wink wink) diss people who buy a Mac as their primary DAW machine. Sorry, l couldn't resist


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## easyrider (Nov 15, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Probably the same reason some people (nudge nudge, wink wink) diss people who buy a Mac as their primary DAW machine. Sorry, l couldn't resist


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## LamaRose (Nov 15, 2021)

DAW... which way did he go, George?


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## cedricm (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I have:
> 
> Mixbus 32c
> Pro Tools
> ...


I have Mixbus 7, Studio One 5 (main DAW), Reason 12 (for sale at a superb price), Ableton 11 Lite, Bitwig Studio 4, and considering purchasing Cubase if Studio One doesn't go multichannel or improves its handling of hundreds of tracks in the next few years.
ProTools failed to install correctly on my less than 1 year old system.

I agree with you. DAWs are like operating systems: whatever works for you.


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> What do people gain from dissing other peoples choices?
> 
> They are just tools at the end of the day.


Yup, they are complete and utter tools.......


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## LamaRose (Nov 15, 2021)

Why do some people get defensive when you hold the door open for them? Usually because they hate themselves enough to share some of it with you. Human fodder... or _skeet _as they would say in the South.


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## Jett Hitt (Nov 15, 2021)

I hate them all, but my ire for Cubase is slightly stronger because it crashes a lot more frequently than Logic. Dissing someone's path to Rome, however, makes little sense. You go your way, I'll go mine. Maybe we'll meet up for a beer when we get there.


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## dts_marin (Nov 15, 2021)

Is this thread biased? My eyes hurt


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## Trash Panda (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I use S1 the majority of the time and use the Rack from Reason. I’m not particularly loyal to any of these DAWs.But a lot of people are and defend their choice with upmost vigour. Why is this?
> 
> What do people gain from dissing other peoples choices?
> 
> They are just tools at the end of the day.


Identity consumerism. Imagine back in the medieval days when rich punks would argue about who's blacksmith was better at making weapons and armor. They had...different ways of settling those disagreements back then though.


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## Pier (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I have:
> 
> Mixbus 32c
> Pro Tools
> ...


It's called tribalism and it's everywhere.

Mac vs Pc.

Apple vs Samsung.

Madrid vs Barcelona.

Cubase vs Logic.

Vegans vs non vegans.

Christianity vs Islam.

Democrat vs Republicans.

Right vs Left.

Etc.

People assume something as part of their own identity and then feel personally attacked when someone else has a different view (is from another tribe) as it seems they are actually challenging their identity.

Google "brand tribalism" if you want to get into a rabbit hole


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## Double Helix (Nov 15, 2021)

LamaRose said:


> [. . .] Human fodder... or _skeet _as they would say in the South.


"Well, bless yer heart"

. . . anyway, I guess it's the same reason people become defensive about virtually anything: They're lip-fumblingly insecure and care about what other people think--"My DAW is better than your DAW. My car/religion/education/political viewpoint/sample library/music choice/ad infinitum is better than whatever. In a word, I'm better than you are."

Okay, you're Number One, little one--that's a given. Therefore. . . next?


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## mybadmemory (Nov 15, 2021)

Double Helix said:


> In a word, I'm better than you are


I don't believe it's primarily about putting other people down, but rather about defending oneself from what appears to be an attack on your own person (since you made the choice). Of course, it turns into a never ending battle of both parties feeling attacked while trying to defend their own choices though.


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## milford59 (Nov 15, 2021)

My grandfather was quite a famous amateur photographer in the middle of last century. His prints were regularly exhibited at the London Salon and the Royal Photographic Society, and they won many competitions. His critics said that this was because he used an ”expensive” Leica camera. He decided to use a Box Brownie, and enter competitions under a false name - he still won.

My point is that any criticism of somebody else’s “tools” should be accompanied by an example of the work that you have produced with your own set of tools. Without this, your opinion is, in my view, not very relevant.


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## easyrider (Nov 15, 2021)

Pier said:


> It's called tribalism and it's everywhere.
> 
> Mac vs Pc.
> 
> ...


I can sort of understand Religion and Politcal standpoints but I couldn’t give a toss who uses what to paint in some midi notes. 😂


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 15, 2021)

Like many things these days, it's an altruistic gesture about helping people who are wrong about things to have their opinions corrected so they can live their best life....

or some bollocks like that.....


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## Double Helix (Nov 15, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> *I don't believe it's primarily about putting other people down*,


I do
It's hard-wired

*EDIT* -- however, I will happily defer to you


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## Al Maurice (Nov 15, 2021)

Most of the pre-formentioned DAWS are just concoptions of one or another.

... So if you hate one you might as well dislike them all ...


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Nov 15, 2021)

You should ask them about their operating system. But if you ask me, that's nothing a good whipping can't remedy.


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## Alchemedia (Nov 15, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I wonder if you wanted to create a Frankenstein's Monster DAW from parts from all the different DAWs which parts would you choose.
> 
> For customisation and extensibility I would have to pick Reaper. For UI and ease of use, probably Sudio One.


You can already use them together with ReWire..


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## José Herring (Nov 15, 2021)

Alchemedia said:


> You can already use them together with ReWire..


Unfortunately ReWire is dead and I'm not liking it really. It's the first instance in my lifetime that music technology has taken a significant step backwards. No way to link DAWS any more which really isn't good for the way I'd been working since 2005.


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## Dewdman42 (Nov 15, 2021)

Because its the opposite of "confirmation bias" to hear any critique about the product you have chosen. Thanks to social media the world has become flush with confirmation bias everywhere, we are drowning in it...and god forbid anyone suggest anything that would challenge your confirmed bias.


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## Pier (Nov 15, 2021)

José Herring said:


> Unfortunately ReWire is dead and I'm not liking it really. It's the first instance in my lifetime that music technology has taken a significant step backwards. No way to link DAWS any more which really isn't good for the way I'd been working since 2005.


I remember using ReWire to link Reason with Cubase back in 2004 or so at a friend's studio. It was a bit of a nightmare to work on two projects at once.

Although I admit I've considered it again to use Bitwig alongside another DAW to do the actual writing 😂


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## Dewdman42 (Nov 15, 2021)

rewire was cool but could have been done better. I for one was always annoyed about the "automatic" nature of it..like you had to startup the various apps in just the right order...and then rewire would automatically choose slave or master mode, etc.. and then some DAW's would insist on showing you all the rewire ports even if you never ever use Rewire, etc.. But if and when you needed to link up two audio/midi apps with sample accurate sync...it was absolutely the best way to go...if those two apps both supported it.

Main problem is that it was created by Propelerheads for Reason and at some point it wasn't worth their time to support it any longer. If we ever want to see something like that again, someone will have to create a new industry standard...and get everyone to follow it. Good luck with that.


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## José Herring (Nov 15, 2021)

Pier said:


> I remember using ReWire to link Reason with Cubase back in 2004 or so at a friend's studio. It was a bit of a nightmare to work on two projects at once.
> 
> Although I admit I've considered it again to use Bitwig alongside another DAW to do the actual writing 😂


It got better over the years fairly smooth really. DAWS started to implement the protocol better and once you set it up the 2 DAWS worked side by side fairly seamlessly. 

I'll download a copy of Bitwig and see if there's anything that's funky about its implementation of Rewire.


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## chillbot (Nov 15, 2021)

I don't think I would be defensive at all if I used Cubase or Logic cause everyone uses them. I mean how can you argue against Cubase if *HANSFRICKINZIMMER* uses it?!

I get defensive about Cakewalk because no one uses it. And because you're not allowed to criticize my DAW until you've spent 50,000 hours in it like I have.


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## José Herring (Nov 15, 2021)

Dewdman42 said:


> Main problem is that it was created by Propelerheads for Reason and at some point it wasn't worth their time to support it any longer. If we ever want to see something like that again, someone will have to create a new industry standard...and get everyone to follow it. Good luck with that.


In essence you are correct. 

Propelerheads/ Reason Stuidios dropped it because they went with the VST3 Rack extension instead of ReWire. Reason at first was a rack that incorporated some DAW features over the years. ReWire was of course a way to use Reason Rack with other DAWS. It worked wonderfully and you also could use the Reason sequencer to do all your Reason automation for the Rack Devices. So when they developed the Rack extension the main reason why they developed ReWire was replaced and they dropped us like a hot potato. The only problem is that as of now the Rack Ext isn't as flexible routing wise as Rewire so you have to use the "rack" mostly as a single instrument with some fx. If you have more than one midi device in the rack they all get triggered.


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## Saxer (Nov 15, 2021)

DAW of the dead


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## jonathanwright (Nov 15, 2021)

‘Tis the internet.

Sit two people next to each other (in real life) who have mildly different opinions on something and there’ll be a two minute discussion, probably ending in both parties saying ‘you have a point’, then talking about the weather. Even if they argue they’ll probably agree to disagree and end up talking about the weather.

Two people on the internet will wind each other up into a frenzy of ludicrous extreme opinions and abuse.

It’s the nature of the beast unfortunately. The subtleties of human interaction can’t possibly be properly conveyed using a keyboard.


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## Pappaus (Nov 15, 2021)

I believe we get defensive about DAWs because we know deep inside it is relatively safe to disagree about them. Now if we start talking about string libraries, things are gonna start flying!! Nobody wants that - and so we sublimate that issue into something safer - like a DAW.


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## MarcusD (Nov 15, 2021)

Pappaus said:


> Now if we start talking about string libraries, things are gonna start flying!! Nobody wants that - and so we sublimate that issue into something safer - like a DAW.


And so, the seed has been planted... You will be held responsible, if this thread descends into chaos...😝


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## easyrider (Nov 15, 2021)

Guitar players don’t generally diss others guitars….


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## Mornats (Nov 15, 2021)

Markrs said:


> You know me to well Mixcraft and studio one artist were about £10 each, Cubase was 50% off (Artist to Pro free upgrade) and Cakewalk is free. However I did pay full price for Reaper, but that is only $60 😝


Ooh how did you grab Studio One Artist for a tenner? I'm quite interested in that DAW (full version, but I suspect a decent upgrade price from artist).


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 15, 2021)

jonathanwright said:


> The subtleties of human interaction can’t possibly be properly conveyed using a keyboard.


Depends on how heavy the keyboard is and how hard they swing it at you.....


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## musicalweather (Nov 15, 2021)

mybadmemory said:


> I don't believe it's primarily about putting other people down, but rather about defending oneself from what appears to be an attack on your own person (since you made the choice). Of course, it turns into a never ending battle of both parties feeling attacked while trying to defend their own choices though.


Agree with this.


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## Mike Fox (Nov 15, 2021)

It starts in grade school, ya know, with the whole “My dad can beat up your dad” argument?

Some of those kids grew up to be musicians, and now say, “My daw can beat up your daw”.


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## PeterN (Nov 15, 2021)

Who gets defensive on the DAW they end up chosing. Never seen anybody do that. And you have 4 pages taking that opinion for granted. What a bunch of *nonsense*.

Never seen anyone getting any fucking "defensive on the daw they end up choosing".

Not that it matters. SMALL TALK.

Why do people like blue hair on one side of head and pink on the other?


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## Rasoul Morteza (Nov 15, 2021)

Pier said:


> I remember using ReWire to link Reason with Cubase back in 2004 or so at a friend's studio. It was a bit of a nightmare to work on two projects at once.
> 
> Although I admit I've considered it again to use Bitwig alongside another DAW to do the actual writing 😂


I wish ReWire was more stable, whenever I implement it between Reaper and Cubase crashes become imminent...


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## Nashi_VI (Nov 15, 2021)

a better question would be why do people love to make fun or diss other's people DAW? people get defensive when the thing they use everyday to make music is being made fun of as something that somehow is going to actually hinder their music making. most people don't get defensive when not provoked.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Guitar players don’t generally diss others guitars….


Pretty much every guitarist I know does this, I work with a lot of them. The worst are those who either play Gibson's or Fender's. It's just human nature.


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## PeterN (Nov 15, 2021)

Nashi_VI said:


> a better question would be why do people love to make fun or diss other's people DAW?


Well do they?

What a bunch of nonsense.


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## Markrs (Nov 15, 2021)

Mornats said:


> Ooh how did you grab Studio One Artist for a tenner? I'm quite interested in that DAW (full version, but I suspect a decent upgrade price from artist).


On KVR sale forum, you can find them on sale for around $20, the one i bought i think was $14.


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## toomanynotes (Nov 15, 2021)

Defensive? Cos Cubase 10.5 is one big meany pile of steaming orangutan poop, but I laid my bed and I’ll lie in it...that’s why.


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## Nashi_VI (Nov 15, 2021)

PeterN said:


> Well do they?
> 
> What a bunch of nonsense.


 yes they do, i see it happening all the time, i guess you are luckly to never see those stupid arguments being made, good for you.


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## MarcusD (Nov 15, 2021)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> The worst are those who either play Gibson's or Fender's. It's just human nature.


Hey, no fair, I play a Gibson. Mean tribalist! 😢


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## Mornats (Nov 15, 2021)

Markrs said:


> On KVR sale forum, you can find them on sale for around $20, the one i bought i think was $14.


Thanks, I'll head on over there


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## PeterN (Nov 15, 2021)

Nashi_VI said:


> yes they do, i see it happening all the time, i guess you are luckly to never see those stupid arguments being made, good for you.


Sounds like a teenager thing.

cheers



---


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## J-M (Nov 15, 2021)

What? From what I've seen so far, most Cubase users complain about it every chance they get...Myself included.


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## PeterN (Nov 15, 2021)

J-M said:


> What? From what I've seen so far, most Cubase users complain about it every chance they get...Myself included.


Yea, and Im complaining about Logic, I use. The word "defensive" just sticked in the eye. But Ive figured it out, its on teenager forums this happens.


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## Trash Panda (Nov 15, 2021)

Nashi_VI said:


> a better question would be why do people love to make fun or diss other's people DAW? people get defensive when the thing they use everyday to make music is being made fun of as something that somehow is going to actually hinder their music making. most people don't get defensive when not provoked.


Insecurity is a mofo.


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## Nashi_VI (Nov 15, 2021)

PeterN said:


> Sounds like a teenager thing.
> 
> cheers
> 
> ...


 most of them are adults since they are the ones that can actually afford to work with their DAW and to buy plugins for it, this is not an age thing, imagine a world where people over 18 all of a sudden get smarter ......... it would defnitely be a better one but sadly this is not the case.


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## Dirtgrain (Nov 15, 2021)

It's the Bitwiggies that started it. They are a plotting, organized bunch who show up in threads, with perfect timing, to claim that "you can do that in the Grid so much more easily" and that "in Bitwig, you can modulate anything with anything . . . Bitwig can take you back in time and use your mother's contractions when you were being born to modulate that saw wave." If we don't do something soon, they will defeat us.


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## Dirtgrain (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Guitar players don’t generally diss others guitars….


How many guitar players does it take to change a lightbulb?


Seven. One to change the lightbulb, and six to watch and say, "Psh, I could do that."


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## Dirtgrain (Nov 15, 2021)

PeterN said:


> Why do people like blue hair on one side of head and pink on the other?


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## Dirtgrain (Nov 15, 2021)

And I loosely (from memory) quote George Carlin again: "Have you ever noticed how anyone driving faster than you is [a jerk] and anyone driving slower than you is a moron?"


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## Zedcars (Nov 15, 2021)

Pier said:


> It's called tribalism and it's everywhere.
> 
> Mac vs Pc.
> 
> ...


Yes, was going to post about tribalism but searched the thread first as was sure someone would mention it.

It’s human nature to be part of a camp that you defend with great vigour (even if it smells of horse manure), and hurl metaphorical bricks at other camps that may in fact be better in some ways but you kid yourself they are of the devil and try to convince others of your wisdom.

It’s all bs.


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## dgburns (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Guitar players don’t generally diss others guitars….


Spoken like a drummer


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## dgburns (Nov 15, 2021)

My daw sucks, I use Logic. I sometimes use Cubase, therefore it sucks less cause I use it less. I occasionally use Protools, it sucks even less than Cubase.


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## Quasar (Nov 15, 2021)

I agree with the tribalism theory. We tend to want to take sides, have an enemy in conjunction with that great feeling of camaraderie, knowing that we're members of the team, that others have are backs and are with us. Us and them. It can be as trivial as Pepsi vs. Coke, but it's also why some war veterans see their service years as the best time of their life despite the dangers and privations...

... With Reaper though it's different, because Reaper is the one true DAW, so it's impossible not to feel sorry for anyone who uses a false, inferior DAW. Reaper users have an unfair reputation for displaying quasi-religious zeal, but this characterization is untrue. We're really only trying to help, to save you from yourselves. LOL.


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## dunamisstudio (Nov 15, 2021)

I'll use what DAW I want.

You use what DAW you want.
Just don't try to sway me to use what you like.


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## easyrider (Nov 15, 2021)

dgburns said:


> Spoken like a drummer


I’ve been playing guitar for over 30 years….and tone is more scrutinised than the Gear….

I’ve seen many crap guitar players with all the gear and no idea and I’ve seen and heard many fantastic guitar players with awesome tone rocking a squire strat….


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## Pier (Nov 15, 2021)

Quasar said:


> Reaper is the one true DAW


_One DAW to rule them all,
One DAW to find them,
One DAW to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them._


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## easyrider (Nov 15, 2021)

There is only one true


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## dzilizzi (Nov 15, 2021)

I don't actually care. I just like to argue. 

But just so you know, mine is way prettier than yours. Though most will find it way too colorful.


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## kitekrazy (Nov 15, 2021)

easyrider said:


> Guitar players don’t generally diss others guitars….


I would only come to that conclusion is if I only hung out on knitting forums. Gibson owners even bash those who have Epiphones. Sometimes I think the higher the skill level is relative to what they criticize. Advanced users don't diss stuff so much.


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## kitekrazy (Nov 15, 2021)

The most absurd comment read to today was the Reaper was a simple program and Reason was more complex because it had a larger file size. That gets a trophy for "fanboyism".


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## kitekrazy (Nov 15, 2021)

Things I pick up from the Cubase thread was kids like FL and Live to make beats and they are easily cracked. I guess it depends on how you define kid. We are the least popular breed in audio production because most of us use desktops. Portability is still shoved down our throats. Give me a 5ghz CPU, 64gb ram and every sata slot used up to create "beats" any day. Most kids I know are into phones and Fortnite.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Nov 15, 2021)

I haven't read this thread, but the serious answer is that it's part of the herd instinct - people want confirmation that they're part of the right group, they bought the right thing, etc.

And if you don't give it to them then to hell with you and everyone who looks like you, smells like you, etc.

Yes, we're all idiots deep down.


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## chocobitz825 (Nov 15, 2021)

I don't care what daw people use...I just hate when people choose a daw and then spend most of their time moaning about it instead of finding the daw that works for them, or making their daw experience work for their needs. 

Also, I hate when people make the pointless claim of "____ DAW is trash because it's always crashing on my computer. It must be the daw's fault because this alternative daw never crashes on my system."

I use studio one, but have a handful of other daws on my system and I get why people choose them over studio one. Whatever makes you happy and gets the job done.


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## Quasar (Nov 15, 2021)




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## Fab (Nov 15, 2021)

I don't think they do really, maybe for fun? like playstation vs xbox


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## A.G (Nov 16, 2021)

To my opinion we have to work with multiple tools (DAWs, plugins etc) in XXIc. It depends on the projects. For example, I started with Cubase 1.0 & Logic v1.0 in the 90s, and still use both (latest Pro versions) for working on various projects. I use Cubase mostly for audio recording & mixing and Logic for music (MIDI) production. All is fine, so we do not have to compare A vs B.


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## Nico5 (Nov 16, 2021)

Geoff Moore said:


> Already a thing! FL Studio can run as a plugin as well as a DAW, it's awesome. I use it inside of Studio One so I can get its insane modular VST/midi routing capabilities within a more 'traditional' composing environment.


I had been wondering about how well FL Studio works as a plugin inside another DAW, and had a very rough time finding any reviews or experiences or videos about that way of using FL Studio.

So thanks for mentioning that you're using FL Studio as a plugin and it works well for you.


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## MarcusD (Nov 16, 2021)

Might have to give FL studio a look again. There was a lot to like about it.

Not used it since version 5? (if memory serves correct) it was before you could record audio directly into it. This, in turn, lead me to Pro Tools, before moving to Cubase.


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## PeterN (Nov 16, 2021)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I haven't read this thread, but the serious answer is that it's part of the herd instinct - people want confirmation that they're part of the right group, they bought the right thing, etc.
> 
> And if you don't give it to them then to hell with you and everyone who looks like you, smells like you, etc.
> 
> Yes, we're all idiots deep down.


Herd instinct is people taking the first post for granted and making virtual signaling and sensibillity with this nonsense, that people are "defensive" with their DAWs. But it doesnt matter. 

What s stupid thread. 

People are dishing their daws regularly.

You made it even more stupid with that herd comment.


so pardon me, someone had to say this loud


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## TomislavEP (Nov 16, 2021)

On one hand, this seems to be a "clan thing", on the other the belief that you've made the right choice.

Personally, as a REAPER user, I'm no stranger to both. This particular DAW has a pretty passionate community, to say the least. However, I'm now personally convinced that switching from Pro Tools to REAPER full-time several years ago, was one of the best moves I ever made. Not only due to a much more fair price system, but in many traits that make this DAW unique in relation to others out there. This not only includes specific features, but also flexibility and a relatively fast development cycle that seem to follow the users' expectations to quite some degree. At least, this is my experience.

Of course, DAW is only a tool and the market is large. Most of the available options can "get the job done".


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## Pappaus (Nov 16, 2021)

Guitarists do not dis other’s guitars, we covet them. 

Also I’m an older guy - In my twenties, to make even a demo for your band, you had to go to somebody’s garage/studio, spend all day to get a 10 minute demo on a CASSETTE. And the price you paid would easily pay for one of the DAWs that we enjoy either defending or dissing.


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## handz (Nov 16, 2021)

Because Cubase is the best and all other choices are wrong )


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## Geoff Moore (Nov 16, 2021)

Nico5 said:


> I had been wondering about how well FL Studio works as a plugin inside another DAW, and had a very rough time finding any reviews or experiences or videos about that way of using FL Studio.
> 
> So thanks for mentioning that you're using FL Studio as a plugin and it works well for you.


It's true, there's virtually no info online. Luckily it's really simple - you have two plugins, one for a single stereo output, one for up to 16 (routing these back into mixer tracks will depend on the DAW you're using). Everything syncs automatically, works as I expected, no performance issues etc. When you click into the plugin you have the full FL interface to work with, just like using it standalone. You can have as many instances of the plugin as you want too!

The only issue I have is on Studio One's end - 'external' plugins don't automatically get included in mixdowns, so you have to record the FL output into track(s) in S1 before mixing down. Not a huge deal, but annoying and I do wish Presonus would fix it.



MarcusD said:


> Might have to give FL studio a look again. There was a lot to like about it.
> 
> Not used it since version 5? (if memory serves correct) it was before you could record audio directly into it. This, in turn, lead me to Pro Tools, before moving to Cubase.


Yeah, FL is awesome and very capable these days! For me it's key feature is Patcher, which just makes it a breeze to set up velocity splits, complex multis, weird FX setups - anything you want really. My main reason for getting Studio One was FL kept crashing with Opus (though I haven't tried the latest version yet). Studio One has occasional crashes with Soundpaint - but because of the FL plugin I can use both together without issue. Remember FL has free liftetime updates, so you can download FL20 and give it a whirl - it's changed a lot since 12, my first version, I imagine it will be unrecognisable from 5


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## darkogav (Nov 16, 2021)

Its the geek equivalent to the older timers bitching about how they will "only buy a Ford and never a Chrysler!". Sad but true.


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## Loïc D (Nov 16, 2021)

Because until proven wrong, I’m always right.


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## Satorious (Nov 16, 2021)

Probably the same people who also bang on about why their operating system is better than yours (basically these people have been indocrinated into some evil OS/DAW cult)! End of the day - all of these things are just tools - some will work better than others for each and every individual - but hey - feel free to shout from the rooftops that yours is definitely the best because one size fits all + you need to be seen as an influencer on social media these days - right?!


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## KMA (Nov 16, 2021)

People who need to convince you of something are really trying to feel better about having made that choice for themselves.

That said, it’s obviously Logic for writing and Pro Tools when absolutely necessary. And if you tell me that ________ made their last album on either, I'll quit them both.


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## Vik (Nov 16, 2021)

Are many DAW users really that defensive? I think I've seen more threads and comments here from people who consider another DAW than from people who get defensive about the one (or those) they currently use.


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## Manaberry (Nov 16, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I have:
> 
> Pro Tools


It's not Ultimate...


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## dzilizzi (Nov 16, 2021)

chocobitz825 said:


> I don't care what daw people use...I just hate when people choose a daw and then spend most of their time moaning about it instead of finding the daw that works for them, or making their daw experience work for their needs.


I just wish I could combine all the things I like best about all of them into one DAW package - mix and match and it all works well together. Because, so far, I've yet to find one that does all the things I want it to do easily. 

And that chocolate has no calories, but still tastes good. Because, well, yeah.


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## VinRice (Nov 16, 2021)

It's more complex than identity or tribalism. Certain character traits and cultural/socio-economic assumptions can be attached to tool choices. I'm elitist scum with developed aesthetic sensibilities and spend way too much money (proportionally) on gear. Guess which DAW/OS I use the most?


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2021)

VinRice said:


> I'm elitist scum with developed aesthetic sensibilities and spend way too much money (proportionally) on gear. Guess which DAW/OS I use the most?


Isn't that exactly identity and how you're recognized by the other members of the tribe or perceived by other tribes?


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## robgb (Nov 16, 2021)

When someone spreads false or incorrect information about software you've used extensively, it's only natural to want to correct the record.


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## VinRice (Nov 16, 2021)

Pier said:


> Isn't that exactly identity and how you're recognized by the other members of the tribe or perceived by other tribes?


That's kinda my point. It's a useful heuristic for human interaction and is in-built. The problem comes when it's used as a simple cypher on which to base an attack. Social media has completely removed the non-verbal cues that could provide contextual depth in personal interactions, or even telephone calls. It needs a lot more work when writing, and reading, to avoid escalation and most people can't be bothered.


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## Pier (Nov 16, 2021)

VinRice said:


>


LOL


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## Trensharo (Nov 16, 2021)

Because they don't like feeling like they made a mistake in their choice.

So, they defend it, voraciously.

Same thing happens with Office Suites, Video Editors, Text Editors, Programming Languages, Java IDEs, etc.

It happens when people allow something outside of themselves to become a part of their identity.


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## Michael Antrum (Nov 17, 2021)

You ought to see some of the threads on the photography site dpreview.com - It makes gearslutz look like a demilitarised zone......


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## Leon Portelance (Nov 18, 2021)

I’ve used Logic since 1.0 and Notator on an Atari, never needed anything else.


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## Mistro (Nov 18, 2021)

One who spent 2 months rent on a DAW and some plugins would hate to read posts about how those products suck 

But seriously, I'm coming to see a DAW the same way I look at plugins....music making tools. I was always a hardcore Reason user but now glad I can take it with me in any other DAW. And it is hard to leave something you grew to be good at over years. It almost feels like adultry.


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## Gingerbread (Nov 18, 2021)

Anytime you choose an expensive commitment (whether a purchase, a DAW, a religion, etc.), you join a "club." Or a tribe.

The last thing you want is for your commitment to be revealed as a big mistake. Anyone who chooses something else---or worse, _converts_ from your choice to _something else_----is a threat to the "correctness" of your expensive choice. Anyone who joins the club is a relief, since it's an affirmation you're not crazy. But anyone who leaves, or chooses a different club, is an attack on your identity, your decision-making, and your lifestyle choice.

It's all just religion, in the end.


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## KEM (Nov 18, 2021)

Because Cubase is better!!


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## dzilizzi (Nov 18, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> Anytime you choose an expensive commitment (whether a purchase, a DAW, a religion, etc.), you join a "club." Or a tribe.
> 
> The last thing you want is for your commitment to be revealed as a big mistake. Anyone who chooses something else---or worse, _converts_ from your choice to _something else_----is a threat to the "correctness" of your expensive choice. Anyone who joins the club is a relief, since it's an affirmation you're not crazy. But anyone who leaves, or chooses a different club, is an attack on your identity, your decision-making, and your lifestyle choice.
> 
> It's all just religion, in the end.


I always try not to get committed myself. 


Seriously, though, I remember when you had to be able to play, or know someone who played, every instrument you wanted to record. I am for anything that makes making music easier. If a new DAW comes out that has better ears than me? I am all over it. But I am also a hobbyist with arthritic hands, so when it gets to the point I can sing in each instrument, I will be happy.


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## Pier (Nov 18, 2021)

KEM said:


> Because Cubase is better!!


LOL

I appreciate you're joking, but I'm curious. Do you have experience with other DAWs?


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## KEM (Nov 18, 2021)

Pier said:


> LOL
> 
> I appreciate you're joking, but I'm curious. Do you have experience with other DAWs?



A little bit, I started with FL Studio cause I originally just wanted to make beats and my friend already had it so he downloaded it onto my computer and signed in with his login so I could use it for free lol, then I switched over to Ableton for awhile because I wanted to start incorporating more sound design as well as my own guitar playing into what I was doing but I never fully got along with it and that’s what eventually lead to Cubase, my biggest influence at the time (Misha Mansoor) is a Cubase user so I bought it wanting to be like him and it just stuck with me, it’s been about 5 years now and I haven’t ever considered switching, I’m completely happy with it


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## Arbee (Nov 18, 2021)

As someone who uses Pro Tools and likes it, I only get defensive because it would seem, around here anyway, that I'm the only one in the entire universe 😄


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## dzilizzi (Nov 18, 2021)

Arbee said:


> As someone who uses Pro Tools and likes it, I only get defensive because it would seem, around here anyway, that I'm the only one in the entire universe 😄


I prefer ProTools myself. My biggest problem with it is I have a lot of VSTs that don't have AAX counterparts. For me, it is really easy to use. I'm also not too crazy about the subscription requirement. Mine runs out in 2023, but I have perpetual, so I may just quit updating at that point.


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## Inventio (Nov 18, 2021)

MarcusD said:


> The day will come when developers join forces and merge their creations...
> 
> StuBase
> CakeMix
> ...


ReaAbleton is the DAW that helps you recover from GAS right? Or that was RehAbleton...


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## MarcusD (Nov 19, 2021)

Michael Antrum said:


> You ought to see some of the threads on the photography site dpreview.com - It makes gearslutz look like a demilitarised zone......


My lord, photographers and the upper echelons of art communities are possibly the worst for it! Dread to think what the fashion industry’s like..


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## Trensharo (Nov 20, 2021)

Pier said:


> LOL
> 
> I appreciate you're joking, but I'm curious. Do you have experience with other DAWs?


Cubase is amazing but I’m not sure it’s $550 better than Cakewalk or $350 better than Logic Pro. It kind of depends on the perspective and where one sits or operates in the market.


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## Pier (Nov 20, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> Cubase is amazing but I’m not sure it’s $550 better than Cakewalk or $350 better than Logic Pro. It kind of depends on the perspective and where one sits or operates in the market.


To be fair, Apple almost gives Logic away to sell more Macs. It would probably be as expensive as Cubase otherwise.


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## Martin S (Nov 20, 2021)

Herd mentality = why human civilization haven’t evolved one bit in the last 5000 years…We are just as tribal now as we were then.


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## chlady (Nov 20, 2021)

Feeling pretty lonely here with DP10 and after 20 years of using it still does everything I need and want it to do, so I'm not about to change now and have to spend time learning another Daw . I do have PTs available for clients but rarely use it.


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## Dirtgrain (Nov 20, 2021)

Affirmation


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## jim2b (Nov 20, 2021)

chlady said:


> Feeling pretty lonely here with DP10 and after 20 years of using it still does everything I need and want it to do, so I'm not about to change now and have to spend time learning another Daw . I do have PTs available for clients but rarely use it.


I’m on DP also. I’ve been using it for years and thoroughly enjoy it.


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## dts_marin (Nov 22, 2021)

jim2b said:


> I’m on DP also. I’ve been using it for years and thoroughly enjoy it.


I'm also using DP but I don't enjoy it. I just don't like other DAWs more than DP. The moment someone replicates the scoring to picture features of DP I'm getting rid of this mess of software. It runs so slow even on beast computers (both Mac & Windows). 

I love it for what it does well but oh man I can make a whole forum's worth of posts on everything that is wrong with DP.


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## mauriziodececco (Nov 23, 2021)

There something interesting in changing DAW, even for a while: thirty years ago i moved from Italy to France; the two countries cultures are different, but a lot less different from what appear; but, when you move, you see only the things that are different, and so moving is refreshing, is eye opening.

With the DAW is the same thing: when i moved from Cubase to Logic, one of the nice thing was just the change; seeing things from a different point of view is refreshing; i used for a while Ableton Live, that have a very different approach to things and UI in particular, and that was very refreshing too.

Trying other things helps avoiding to adapt: after many years using a tool, you give a lot of things for granted, including good things and bad things. You learn to go around rough edges, and adapts to the limits of the tools you are using. When you look elsewhere, even for a while, it helps you understanding what you really need, but resetting your habits and taking a fresh look at old problems. 

Of course, not everybody have the luxury to have the time for this kind of experiences; being a non professional have some advantages 
Maurizio


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## Voider (Nov 23, 2021)

Martin S said:


> Herd mentality = why human civilization haven’t evolved one bit in the last 5000 years…We are just as tribal now as we were then.


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## creativeforge (Nov 23, 2021)

Markrs said:


> I think DAWs can be quite a personal thing as they relate to workflow. I have:
> 
> Reaper 6
> Cakewalk
> ...


Workflow! Some people grew up with a DAW, or had music education with specific products they had to become fluent with. There's also "industry standards," for those for whom composing for image is their bread and butter may have a more fluid interaction with their employers using the same DAW.

I worked with Cakewalk (1998) all the way to v9.3, but never got into SONAR. Years later I moved to Reaper and enjoyed it for a few years but was always frustrated with the (to my taste) lack of visual cues (GUI) and fighting with seeing VSTs and audio channeling. 

Then I tried Mixcraft (v7) and it was a revelation. All the stuff I needed taken care off under the hood stayed under the hood, esp. MIDI and audio routings were out of the box. Also like the GUI. I like visual cues, an interface that is 3D-ish. I want the DAW to not stand in the way of creativity, forcing me to always reach for settings hidden somewhere, a distraction (and sometimes frustration) from the work. I've been with them ever since. 

For my non-professional needs, it's more than enough. Maybe they lack certain features that real composers would need? Yet there are more features than I would know what to do with (the Performance screen is still a mystery to me, a sample loop recording and performance feature that could be of amazing use). 

In my case MX works very well, it allows me to have a pretty much uninterrupted workflow. And the price is right, and like most they have promotions (I got an upgrade to Pro for $29 I think?). I'm about to install v9.


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## gedlig (Nov 23, 2021)

MarcusD said:


> My lord, photographers and the upper echelons of art communities are possibly the worst for it! Dread to think what the fashion industry’s like..


Add all of those into one and you get the toxic cesspool that is the cosplay comunity...

Also to keep this on topic: S1 will become the iNdUsTrY sTaNdArD


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## dhmusic (Nov 23, 2021)

Umm

so I heard from my dad that the reason we get so defensive now is because everything changed around the turn of the 70s/80s because before then people used control voltage to trigger everything but once I was born I basically did the job myself and it's my fault, sorry...


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## Learningtomix (Nov 23, 2021)

I don't get defensive about the DAW I use (Reaper). 

I am more prone to thinking the grass is greener with another DAW. I've spent a day troubleshooting a bug which had HOOPUS crashing Reaper silently and repeatably. Luckily for me I found a workaround. Phew! I guess I should write it up for other's benefit.


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## Sunny Schramm (Nov 23, 2021)

Most of the time its not about people getting defensive on their DAW in the first place - its about the other people who wants to make other daws looking bad imho. So somebody feels forced to react and get things right. But whats first? The egg or the chicken? 

Every DAW has its pro´s and con´s and problems on any platform. So everybody should use what he likes in peace.

I use Cubase as my main working horse for mostly 30 years. Ableton Live is a great inspiring tool for experimenting and getting new ideas. I support Reaper just for playing around and being interested in what the Cockos guys brings in their next update - great and cheap DAW to get into making music! Bitwig looks interesting too but you can not have or use all - otherwise you spend more time into learning and looking for features as making music.

Well...we all here already spend too much time with reading, writing and discussing things


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## Trensharo (Nov 25, 2021)

Learningtomix said:


> I don't get defensive about the DAW I use (Reaper).
> 
> I am more prone to thinking the grass is greener with another DAW. I've spent a day troubleshooting a bug which had HOOPUS crashing Reaper silently and repeatably. Luckily for me I found a workaround. Phew! I guess I should write it up for other's benefit.


The grass truly is greener 

The tricky thing people don’t realize is that it’s only patches of grass… not the entire pasture.


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## chocobitz825 (Nov 25, 2021)

Trensharo said:


> The grass truly is greener
> 
> The tricky thing people don’t realize is that it’s only patches of grass… not the entire pasture.


I don’t care how about your grass. Just don’t pee in my grass and we’ll be fine 😜


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## branshen (Nov 25, 2021)

how can I know which grass is best without trying all of them? But I'm used to my grass, and I dont feel inclined to try anything else, so it is the best (to me).


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## JamelaBanderson (Nov 30, 2021)

User communities is what people are loyal to. Same way people get their back up defending their sports team of choice (or country, or religion, or political affiliation....).


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## 3CPU (Dec 1, 2021)

Nowadays most DAW's are similar, no major leaps in software technology has yet been realized since the past decade or so. But that should change dramatically within the next 10 years.

Being able to take what you hear inside your mind and transfer it with current available technology is a quite a challenge, more or less depending on ones own skill. The future should see Mind Transference become a reality augmented with options to make a few changes. And then with one click transfer to distributor, music supervisors, publicist, media and social networks, this whole process from mind to worldwide availability is so much more efficient.


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## timbit2006 (Dec 1, 2021)

I blame pro tools


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## dzilizzi (Dec 1, 2021)

3CPU said:


> Being able to take what you hear inside your mind and transfer it with current available technology is a quite a challenge, more or less depending on ones own skill. The future should see Mind Transference become a reality augmented with options to make a few changes. And then with one click transfer to distributor, music supervisors, publicist, media and social networks, this whole process from mind to worldwide availability is so much more efficient.


I'm still waiting for this!


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## Trensharo (Dec 1, 2021)

Vik said:


> Are many DAW users really that defensive?


Yes.


Vik said:


> I think I've seen more threads and comments here from people who consider another DAW than from people who get defensive about the one (or those) they currently use.


Because this is a relatively composer dominant forum and there are more professionals here. People have discussions, so what crowd a forum attracts has a huge impact on the nature and content of discussion threads therein.

If you go to a forum like KVR or Gearspace, things began to look a little less... utopic. Reddit is pretty terrible, as well.

In order to really gauge a DAW community's vibe, you have to participate in its product forums (if exist) and see how open that community is to discussing criticism of the product - including feature requests phrased in a comparative manner (which is also received as criticism).

Pro Tools, Cubase and Ableton tend to have more open (less defensive) communities than DAWs like REAPER, Samplitude or FL Studio (for example). Studio One's community is fairly middle-of-the-road, but veering towards the latter side (and they're almost as evangelical as REAPER users, TBH).

Generally, the more "underdog" a product is, the more it tends to veer towards this defensiveness. The users also tend to be more evangelical about their DAW choices.

We also have to factor in the cultural and socio-economic aspects at play.


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## mauriziodececco (Dec 2, 2021)

There is another very interesting mechanism sometime with software, that i call the Win95 syndrome, or a kind of Stockholm syndrome: sometime, to a get what you want from a piece of software you need to acquire a big set of competences; with old versions of Windows, this required a number of system skills, concerning system recovery, updates, register base, drivers etc, otherwise you get in trouble very quickly. Once people learned these competences, they feel involved with the software, and are a lot less likely to abandon it, because they feel they master it. 
Of course, compared to a system that have less problems, or it is easier to use, or more adapted to what you need, this whole set of competences is actually useless, and represents only a cost, not a product advantage. 

But once you invested time and effort to acquire them, they look like an added value; and by defending your product, you actually defend your competences and try to make sense of the time/resources you spent to acquire them.

This happens, at different levels, with all kind of software, including DAWS.

Maurizio


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## dcoscina (Dec 2, 2021)

easyrider said:


> I have:
> 
> Mixbus 32c
> Pro Tools
> ...


I work in music retail so I have to be fluent in many of them. And I’ve been at this a loooooong time, starting with Steinberg 12 on the Atari back in 1988. 

Presently I’m loving S1 as well because of its macros, clean GUI and general workflow. But I still use LPX and Cubase. I was die hard DP user for years mainly because I worked with folks in LA and they used it. Thought it was great but it did require VEPro for VIs. Same with Pro Tools. 

Have to say I’m moving more and more towards Dorico for everything these days and to quote Teddy Riley from his video endorsement of Studio One back in 2010 “I’m looooooving it”. Scoring a friend’s feature next year and using only Dorico- mainly because I get a real orchestra to record with. But the VST handling is really amazing and the synths I will be adding won’t be an issue because Dorico does exceptionally well them.


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## mburellmusic (Dec 2, 2021)

Now we are arguing about why we are arguing! 😂


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