# Best hardware for key switches - Stream Deck, MIDI Pad, iPad, or...?



## David Kudell (Dec 15, 2020)

Looking at setting up key switches on an external controller. Are the Stream Deck buttons suitable for key switching articulations, or is a MIDI pad controller or iPad with TouchOSC (or something else) better suited for this?

I use a 61-key keyboard (because I like the synth action) so I don't have enough open keys for keyswitches on the low notes. I do also have an 88 key I could use. Would love to hear some ideas.

Update April 2021: I moved away from keyswitches to single track per articulation. However I did get both a stream deck and have Metagrid running on my iPad, both with shortcuts to my most-used Cubase functions. They both kind of do the same thing so I’m still figuring out what functions are best for each device, but I can recommend either one. If you have an iPad I’d start with Metagrid because it has a ton of shortcuts already built in so you’ll learn new ones you never thought of.


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## wbacer (Dec 15, 2020)

I use to use an iPad and Lemur with my PC, Cubase / Nuendo for keyswitching but it was a a lot of work to set up and now with Cubase / Nuendo 11, it no longer works with my setup. I'm now using Stream Deck for my articulation switching. It's a lot easier to set up. There is a midi app within the Stream Desk onscreen interface where you set the midi channels and key numbers for each key. I have the 32 button model. You can set up any button as a folder that will take you to a new layer of an additional 32 buttons. As far as I know, you can set up an unlimited number of folders and layers. Anyway it's working great for me.


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## Giscard Rasquin (Dec 15, 2020)

Hey David. I use a little keyboard on the side. I´ve programmed all my libraries to start the keyswitches at C-2 and set that keyboard to start at C-2.


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## David Kudell (Dec 15, 2020)

Giscard Rasquin said:


> Hey David. I use a little keyboard on the side. I´ve programmed all my libraries to start the keyswitches at C-2 and set that keyboard to start at C-2.


Great idea, and eliminates the need to program a bunch of expression maps, correct?


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## David Kudell (Dec 15, 2020)

wbacer said:


> I use to use an iPad and Lemur with my PC, Cubase / Nuendo for keyswitching but it was a a lot of work to set up and now with Cubase / Nuendo 11, it no longer works with my setup. I'm now using Stream Deck for my articulation switching. It's a lot easier to set up. There is a midi app within the Stream Desk onscreen interface where you set the midi channels and key numbers for each key. I have the 32 button model. You can set up any button as a folder that will take you to a new layer of an additional 32 buttons. As far as I know, you can set up an unlimited number of folders and layers. Anyway it's working great for me.


I've never used the Stream Deck, do you find the buttons responsive enough for playing in lines where you need to switch quickly between, say, Staccatisimo and Marcato?


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## rgames (Dec 15, 2020)

Lemur/TouchOSC have the most flexibilty but the cost is you have to learn how to set them up. But programming a Lemur template for just keyswitches is not difficult. A couple hours with some video tutorials is probably all you need, if even that. If you have any experience writing code it's more like 30 minutes.

rgames


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## AlexRuger (Dec 15, 2020)

If you're on Windows, a native touch display and MaxMSP is my favorite way to go. Of course you can do *far* more with Max then just set touch buttons, but I really like it as a kind of central command.


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## eakwarren (Dec 15, 2020)

I use Metagrid on my iPad for navigation and articulations. More info in my previous post here.


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## heisenberg (Dec 15, 2020)

Hi David, like you, I use a 61 Key synth action keyboard for the same reason. I have a KORG nanoKEY2 for keyswitching. It is also thin enough that it half slides under the front of a mixing board. The USB socket is the weak part of the device. It works but occassionally when I bump the nanoKEY with my wrist, the USB disconnects for a second or so.

Part of me really likes Alex's idea of using Max with a touch device or display.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 15, 2020)

I too use Metagrid with Cubase and it is amazing.


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## David Kudell (Dec 15, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> I too use Metagrid with Cubase and it is amazing.


This one looks pretty great and not too hard to set up. Do you need to program expression maps in Cubase to switch articulations or can you just use Keyswitches?


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## sostenuto (Dec 15, 2020)

Will be testing/trying new Corsair Scimitar Pro RGB Mouse ( 12 - Side Buttons ). No clue if this can work for key switching per OP interest. Hoping this can be like 'mini-Stream Deck' ?


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## sostenuto (Dec 15, 2020)

AlexRuger said:


> If you're on Windows, a native touch display and MaxMSP is my favorite way to go. Of course you can do *far* more with Max then just set touch buttons, but I really like it as a kind of central command.



Will appreciate a bit more re. 'MaxMSP' for this usage. Searched it, but nothing like this found. 
Have original MS - Surface tablet & Wacom Intuos Graphics tablet which may work ?


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## David Kudell (Dec 15, 2020)

One of the keys for me is response when performing...while the iPad options seem convenient, the lac of defined keys seems like it would be hard to hit the buttons when trying to play a part on the keyboard. Seems like keyswitches on a little midi keyboard would be best for that?


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## Gerbil (Dec 15, 2020)

Definitely not the stream deck. I love mine but the buttons have a light depth and click which would put me off using them for this purpose.


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## David Kudell (Dec 15, 2020)

Gerbil said:


> Definitely not the stream deck. I love mine but the buttons have a light depth and click which would put me off using them for this purpose.


Ok, that’s what I was wondering. Still looks great for shortcuts and macros though.


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## Pablocrespo (Dec 15, 2020)

I use a steinberg cmc pd, with 16 pads, they send c-2 keys onward, I love it


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## ALittleNightMusic (Dec 15, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> This one looks pretty great and not too hard to set up. Do you need to program expression maps in Cubase to switch articulations or can you just use Keyswitches?



You can just use keyswitches (if you've memorized them...). It's a grid system though, so you don't have a dedicated keyboard automatically. No matter though - I created a 2 octave grid from C-2 through B-1 and I have all my expression maps set to use remote keys starting at C-2 so it is super easy for me to switch articulations live if needed. If all you wanted to do was to key switch though, probably easier to get a small midi keyboard. Metagrid's potential is way, way bigger than that.


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## Jordan D Smith (Dec 15, 2020)

I’ve been using my MPD26 for key switching and faders for a bit now. It works great, but it’s rather bulky.


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## muziksculp (Dec 15, 2020)

*Metagrid* on an iPad Pro 12", it is great for Library Key-Switches, also DAW Key-commands.

I'm also using a second iPad 2 running *Lemur*, I can design my custom faders, buttons, X-Y pads, ..etc. that send MIDI data.

It takes some time to set this up.

My DAW : Studio One Pro 5.1.1 / Windows 10.


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## Will Wilson (Dec 16, 2020)

Korg NanoPad2, feels like your actually pressing something, and is different from a keyboard so I like having the difference, you can also setup multiple pages/banks so you can use it for multiple things (I like it for keyswitches and for playing in percussion).

Plus it's super cheap!


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## ltmusic (Dec 16, 2020)

What about this...
Compsers tools pro








Composer Tools Pro - MIDI Kinetics


Composer Tools Pro The ultimate virtual instrument controller for Lemur The days of bulky, inflexible hardware controllers are over. Composer Tools Pro gives you everything you need to control your virtual instruments. With a touch of a button, recall a track's settings-- directly from your DAW...




www.midikinetics.com


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## cloudbuster (Dec 16, 2020)

Dunno about 'best' but sure like my Faderfox UC4 for all sorts of jobs, especially on the road.






Faderfox UC4


Faderfox SC4 - Sequencer and Controller




faderfox.de


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## JonS (Dec 16, 2020)

I use iPad + Metagrid and the buttons on a SL Mixface for UACC changes regarding articulation.


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## Loïc D (Dec 16, 2020)

I don’t feel Streamdeck for this usage (though it’s great for shortcuts).
The keys feel a bit soft/wobbly first, then you reach the switch. Same when you release the key.
Hard to describe, I call it sometimes “plastic bubble wrap” feeling.


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## Loïc D (Dec 16, 2020)

David, if you want to see the Streamdeck feel, we can organize a video call.


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## MartinH. (Dec 16, 2020)

Maybe M-Audio Keystation 32 mini or Akai LPK25?


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## Alex Fraser (Dec 16, 2020)

Another vote for the NanoKey.
Quick note on using the iPad/tablet for switching. If it's not a wired connection, you'll notice the lag when you switch between articulations. Not a problem for slow lines but I found it an issue with quick changes.

The other obvious advantage with the tablet is that you can add faders, XY etc etc.


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## Giscard Rasquin (Dec 17, 2020)

David Kudell said:


> Great idea, and eliminates the need to program a bunch of expression maps, correct?



I do actually use expression maps all the time for programming the articulations for each part but I’ll use the little keyboard to select articulations on the go when noodling around and trying stuff out.


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## David Kudell (Dec 17, 2020)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I think for what I'm looking to do, a small keyboard like this Arturia Keylab would be perfect just to map to C-2 and have keyswitches on. Plus it won't take up much space. Then eventually a Stream Deck or iPad software for macros.









Arturia MicroLab 25-key Keyboard Controller - Black


Micro 25-key USB MIDI Controller with Velocity Sensitive Keys, Pitch and Modulation Strips, Chord Mode, and Bundled Software - Black




www.sweetwater.com


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## Epimetheus1707 (Dec 17, 2020)

I've had some luck using a Penclic N3 numeric keypad, which is programmable. I have it set up so every key sends out a unique keystroke (like eg. cmd+alt+ctrl+shift+num1) for which I have a keyboard maestro macro that can then send out anything you want. In my case it is some value of CC35, which in turn trigger my articulations in Logic. It could also be a Midi note in your case.

The cool thing is that the N3 has many more buttons for you to set up anything and it's very affordable. Last time I checked, the configuration software was for windows only though.


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## Fitz (Jan 4, 2021)

Can someone elaborate on MaxMSP and windows?


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## studioj (Jan 4, 2021)

I love MIDI Kinetics - Composer Tools Pro lemur template and would highly recommend it. I’ve been running it for a few years on a 10 year old iPad 2!


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## StefanE (Jan 5, 2021)

I use all buttons on my Icon X+ for keyswitches.


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## ReleaseCandidate (Jan 5, 2021)

Fitz said:


> Can someone elaborate on MaxMSP and windows?


Max is the standalone version of Max for Live (actually it is the other way around, but never mind, Cycling 74 belongs to Ableton now .








Cycling '74


Tools for sound, graphics, and interactivity




cycling74.com




You can use that to generate interfaces for MIDI devices (and anything else that has something to do with audio or multimedia)








Learn Max | Cycling '74


Whether you're starting out with Max or looking to take your patching to the next level, here's a collection of useful learning resources.




cycling74.com


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## rgames (Jan 5, 2021)

One thing to keep in mind in considering a MIDI keyboard vs. Lemur or similar is that Lemur makes it a lot easier to fire off a number of commands with a single button. You can also control the behavior of one button with the state of another. Doing that ranges from difficult to impossible with a note on/off message like you get from a MIDI keyboard.

For example, a big part of what I use my Lemur controls for is track visibility in my orchestral template. I can hit one button to "show string tracks" for example and it'll run one or two macros depending on the state of a different button, one that hides all tracks that aren't strings and one that expands the folder track with all my strings (necessary because it might be collapsed and only visible at the folder level). That way I can hit that single button and all my string tracks appear. Likewise I can hit the same button again and it's smart enough to know to hide them, so the button becomes a toggle switch. You can also assign a second button that toggles whether other tracks are hidden when you focus on strings. That's really hard to do with a MIDI keyboard and note on/off (I can't think offhand how you would do that). Having that ability is a huge timesave for me when I'm working in my orchestral template.

Also, I run Lemur on a Samsung Galaxy View tablet and it's the perfect size and resolution for my array of buttons and sliders. I find normal tablets too small and touchscreens too large. The Galaxy View was a commercial flop but it works great for composers using Lemur.

rgames


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## Loïc D (Jan 5, 2021)

rgames said:


> One thing to keep in mind in considering a MIDI keyboard vs. Lemur or similar is that Lemur makes it a lot easier to fire off a number of commands with a single button. You can also control the behavior of one button with the state of another. Doing that ranges from difficult to impossible with a note on/off message like you get from a MIDI keyboard.
> 
> For example, a big part of what I use my Lemur controls for is track visibility in my orchestral template. I can hit one button to "show string tracks" for example and it'll run one or two macros depending on the state of a different button, one that hides all tracks that aren't strings and one that expands the folder track with all my strings (necessary because it might be collapsed and only visible at the folder level). That way I can hit that single button and all my string tracks appear. Likewise I can hit the same button again and it's smart enough to know to hide them, so the button becomes a toggle switch. You can also assign a second button that toggles whether other tracks are hidden when you focus on strings. That's really hard to do with a MIDI keyboard and note on/off (I can't think offhand how you would do that). Having that ability is a huge timesave for me when I'm working in my orchestral template.
> 
> ...


Interesting... What is your DAW?
I dream to have this kind of feature in Logic...


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## kC_ (Jan 5, 2021)

i use both streamdeck & metagrid on an ipad mini, fab combo!


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## Gert Keunen (Jan 5, 2021)

StefanE said:


> I use all buttons on my Icon X+ for keyswitches.


Interesting! Two questions:
1. Do you use something like Bome Midi Translator to set up the keyswitches?
2. If you program midi notes, the lowest is midi note 0 = C-1. How do you program C-2 to C-1?

I use a Icon Platform M+ as midi controller (for CC's etc, in Mackie Control)
And I use a Icon Platform B+ for all key strokes/macros: 50 freely assignable buttons.
Good combination!


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## rgames (Jan 5, 2021)

Loïc D said:


> Interesting... What is your DAW?
> I dream to have this kind of feature in Logic...


I use Cubase. Here's a video I did a while back showing how I manage track visibility using Lemur:


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## StefanE (Jan 6, 2021)

Gert Keunen said:


> Interesting! Two questions:
> 1. Do you use something like Bome Midi Translator to set up the keyswitches?
> 2. If you program midi notes, the lowest is midi note 0 = C-1. How do you program C-2 to C-1?
> 
> ...


ad 1: I just used the iMap App from Icon and created an user defined template. It is very easy.
ad 2: The lowest note shown in iMap is C-1, but on my PC in Cubase it is received 1 octave below, i.e. it's recorded as C-2. I'd expect the same for B+ (I do not have one, so I can't check it).


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## LudovicVDP (Jan 6, 2021)

rgames said:


> For example, a big part of what I use my Lemur controls for is track visibility in my orchestral template. I can hit one button to "show string tracks" for example and it'll run one or two macros depending on the state of a different button, one that hides all tracks that aren't strings and one that expands the folder track with all my strings (necessary because it might be collapsed and only visible at the folder level). That way I can hit that single button and all my string tracks appear.


I'm doing this with Touch Portal as well. That's so nice to have.
Show Strings, Show used, Show used at cursor, Show Brass, Show everything etc... 
Feature I use all the time.



One side question regarding triggering key switches with a Nano Control for instance.
How do you then do? 
Do you construct your expression maps so that your first pad always triggers Legato, the second one sustain etc... no matter where the library designed their KS (on C-2 or C-1 for instance).
Or do you not consider keyswitches from the libraries but load each articulation in a Kontakt instance in the order you need?
Then how do you cope with special libraries like Tundra which only has weird techniques and not the standards Leg/Sus/Arco/Pizz/etc...

Cheers


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## Paul Jelfs (Jan 6, 2021)

Giscard Rasquin said:


> Hey David. I use a little keyboard on the side. I´ve programmed all my libraries to start the keyswitches at C-2 and set that keyboard to start at C-2.


oh dear - does your main keyboard know your seeing /using a little keyboard on the side ... They will surely find out if you post it on a public forum....

But , I have a guilty secret too. I have had a little keyboard on the side for years - it’s just so cheap and easy and quick , while my Komplete kontrol S61 mk2 is constantly high maintenance ....

My pathetic attempt at humour might well fall flat if having a bit on the side does not have the same meaning as in the UK ....


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## Paul Jelfs (Jan 6, 2021)

Tbh though ,, I wish Steinberg would go back to the hardware business with controllers , etc that intergrate with Cubase .

A small Key switch device that smartly works up with expression maps , maybe using lights and a small screen .

A device that controls all of the deeper functions like midi editing functions , quantise, logical presets etc .

Got cc121 which is great but due an update and they could expand on it so well.

I think they got stung with the little pad controllers not selling well .
hopefully this new api they are developing will see some amazing deep controllers enter the market


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## Paulogic (Jan 6, 2021)

I'm looking for a solution for key switches too. I'm still thinking about a 88 hamer keyb in stead of
my S61 MK2 but the S88 does not fit my workdesk tray. (Platform desk from Output).
Another 88 keyb like the Hammer 88 would do nicely, but then I have to miss the screens to select
sound and the DAW control.
For now I'm thinking of using my Machine Mikro III in midi-mode. The MMIII can be easily used for keyswitches and you can transpose the pads up/down with the select key. 
I'll give it a try before changing more then necessary.


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## HeliaVox (Jan 6, 2021)

Paulogic said:


> I'm looking for a solution for key switches too. I'm still thinking about a 88 hamer keyb in stead of
> my S61 MK2 but the S88 does not fit my workdesk tray. (Platform desk from Output).


With the Platform desk, if you remove the synth tray, the S88 can fit underneath on a stand. One user said he uses the K&M 18810 Omega stand, and it just slides in underneath his Platform.









K&M 18810 Omega Table-Style Keyboard Stand - Black


Height-Adjustable (24-40") Steel Keyboard Stand with Spring-Loaded Locking Screws & Floor Protectors - Black




www.sweetwater.com


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## Loïc D (Jan 6, 2021)

rgames said:


> I use Cubase. Here's a video I did a while back showing how I manage track visibility using Lemur:



Thank you, that’s brilliant.
I didn’t know that Cubase was providing so many features (I left Cubase years ago).
I wish Logic had those features. Afaik, we’re still a long stretch.


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## babylonwaves (Jan 7, 2021)

Loïc D said:


> I wish Logic had those features. Afaik, we’re still a long stretch.


you can set up groups in logic and show/hide those using key commands. i've just watch the beginning of the video, so I don't know if there's more in this regard but as for visibility, logic has the basic tools too.


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## widescreen (Jan 7, 2021)

Paulogic said:


> I'm looking for a solution for key switches too. I'm still thinking about a 88 hamer keyb in stead of
> my S61 MK2 but the S88 does not fit my workdesk tray. (Platform desk from Output).
> Another 88 keyb like the Hammer 88 would do nicely, but then I have to miss the screens to select
> sound and the DAW control.
> ...


I have also an S61 Mk2 and a Maschine Mikro Mk3.

Inspired by Guy Michelmore's APC mini I searched for a similar option but hopefully smaller and without useless faders needing space.

I found it: I grabbed a Novation Launchpad Mini Mk3, a little notebook stand and an additional anti-slip mat (together cost me under 80€) so that it stands a little up in a nice angle and resist quicker treatment without slipping backwards.

You can assign a keyboard-like layout (preconfigured in octaves) through their software where it just sends out MIDI keys.





The red keys (colours adjustable) are the lower and upper C keys of each octave. The upper ones over each row are the "black" keys. You can for example say the lowest row begins with C-2, next one C-1 and so on. So in the example C-1, C0, C1 are double on right side and next upper left side, they flash both if one is pressed.
Or you define every key directly on its own with a different colour. I am still experimenting, what's best. But for me it looks near to perfect. When the best layout is found, I possibly label the keys with a P-touch.

Needs much less space compared to the Maschine Mikro, has more than 16 keys, you get a haptical AND opical feedback from the keys if pressed or not, it is cheaper than nearly all 25 key keyboards... Have I forgotten any advantage?


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## ProfoundSilence (Jan 7, 2021)

I have a machine jam and I wish I had another


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## rgames (Jan 7, 2021)

widescreen said:


> Needs much less space compared to the Maschine Mikro, has more than 16 keys, you get a haptical AND opical feedback from the keys if pressed or not, it is cheaper than nearly all 25 key keyboards... Have I forgotten any advantage?


The biggest problem I have with the standard pad/slider controllers is there's no label on the pads/sliders. I probably have 10 or 12 primary libraries in my orchestral template and I would never be able to remember which keyswitch goes with which articulation and which slider controls which instrument parameter.

With a Lemur template it's all labeled. And in libraries where there are 20+ articulations per instrument I often find myself saying "Oh yeah. Forgot I had that option." Labeled buttons help you make better use of the articulations you paid for but forgot about.

The second biggest problem with the standard pad/slider controllers is there's no way to adapt the pads/sliders to the selected track. You can do that in Lemur and you can even set it up so that it automatically switches to the appropriate collection of keyswitches and slider controls when you select a track in your DAW.

So, for example, if you click on a Spitfire strings track, the Lemur project will automatically switch to the page with all the Spitfire keyswitch pads and all the sliders for the controls available with Spitfire strings (vibrato, stretch, different mic levels, etc), all labeled so you don't have to try to remember what's what. If you then select a Cinebrass track, the Lemur project will then automatically switch to the page for that library, again with labeled pads and sliders appropriate for that library.

Pad/slider controllers can provide some benefit but using Lemur (or similar) provides a *lot* more functionality. Setting up a Lemur template was one of my top workflow enhancers from the past decade.

rgames


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## widescreen (Jan 7, 2021)

rgames said:


> The biggest problem I have with the standard pad/slider controllers is there's no label on the pads/sliders. I probably have 10 or 12 primary libraries in my orchestral template and I would never be able to remember which keyswitch goes with which articulation and which slider controls which instrument parameter.
> 
> With a Lemur template it's all labeled. And in libraries where there are 20+ articulations per instrument I often find myself saying "Oh yeah. Forgot I had that option." Labeled buttons help you make better use of the articulations you paid for but forgot about.
> 
> ...


Sounds interesting. Is the same possible with TouchOSC? I already have that. If the track switching would work there that would be an additional benefit to combine.

For that Lemur template, did you have to insert and label the key switches from every library manually or is there an automatism?
If manually, the same amount of work it could be to set the key switches on every library so the same articulations sit on the same key for all libs?

I personally like haptic keys more than touch displays. So I use them whenever possible. But for expression control I find it quite useful already (if combined vibrato speed and intensity in a rectangle as example).


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## Gert Keunen (Jan 7, 2021)

StefanE said:


> ad 1: I just used the iMap App from Icon and created an user defined template. It is very easy.
> ad 2: The lowest note shown in iMap is C-1, but on my PC in Cubase it is received 1 octave below, i.e. it's recorded as C-2. I'd expect the same for B+ (I do not have one, so I can't check it).


Thanks Stefan!
ad1: I also use iMap/user defined mode on my Platform M+. Works good indeed.
Only problem is: I use it for CC-faders/midi learning CC (to handle virtual instruments), and that only works when you select 'all midi inputs' in Cubase/device setup. So you'll always hear instrument sounds when you press a button.

ad2: Great, I'll check it out!


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## rgames (Jan 7, 2021)

widescreen said:


> For that Lemur template, did you have to insert and label the key switches from every library manually or is there an automatism?
> If manually, the same amount of work it could be to set the key switches on every library so the same articulations sit on the same key for all libs?


Yes, every time I get a new library I have to set up the keyswitches (actually I use CCs) and add them to the buttons/sliders on a new page in the Lemur template. It's simple to do and doesn't take long.

I don't know why you have to set them to the same thing for every library - you can customize each button to send whatever keyswitch or CC works for any given library. I do, however, use expression maps that make everything common in the MIDI data. So "stacc" is the same artic on strings, brass, WW, whatever. That way you can drag MIDI from one track to another and the articulations are still correct (to the extent possible, of course - there's no "col legno" in a trumpet patch).

rgames


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## widescreen (Jan 7, 2021)

rgames said:


> Yes, every time I get a new library I have to set up the keyswitches (actually I use CCs) and add them to the buttons/sliders on a new page in the Lemur template. It's simple to do and doesn't take long.
> 
> I don't know why you have to set them to the same thing for every library - you can customize each button to send whatever keyswitch or CC works for any given library. I do, however, use expression maps that make everything common in the MIDI data. So "stacc" is the same artic on strings, brass, WW, whatever. That way you can drag MIDI from one track to another and the articulations are still correct (to the extent possible, of course - there's no "col legno" in a trumpet patch).
> 
> rgames


Sorry, I wasn't precise enough.

I just thought if it would be the same amount of work to set every articulation on the same key in every lib to be able to use the haptic controller for most cases.

But sure completely customized controls are even better.

How does Lemur know which lane and library is selected? Has the DAW to send anything or is it a plug-In that detects it? Do you need specific DAWs to do that or would it work with any DAW?

As I saw some comparisons one could think Lemur and TouchOSC can do 95% the same things. So as I own TouchOSC already I could invest some time to dig deeper to achieve what you do with Lemur. Is there a resource where the actual steps to achieve your state are documented?


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## mburellmusic (Jan 8, 2021)

There's a Lemur app that is specifically designed to do all this. I can't live without it any more. I tried setting up my own Lemur stuff but this does everything I wanted and more. Works with Logic, Cubase, DP, and Pro Tools.








Composer Tools Pro - MIDI Kinetics


Composer Tools Pro The ultimate virtual instrument controller for Lemur The days of bulky, inflexible hardware controllers are over. Composer Tools Pro gives you everything you need to control your virtual instruments. With a touch of a button, recall a track's settings-- directly from your DAW...




www.midikinetics.com


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## StefanE (Jan 8, 2021)

Gert Keunen said:


> Only problem is: I use it for CC-faders/midi learning CC (to handle virtual instruments), and that only works when you select 'all midi inputs' in Cubase/device setup. So you'll always hear instrument sounds when you press a button.


The sounds you hear probably are probably caused be the sensitivity sensor of the faders. Every time you touch them X+ sends a note message per default, i.e. every fader and knob can send 2 different messages, e.g. a cc when you move it and another event when you just touch it. What you need to do is to stop the X+ to send any event when you are just touching a controller. 

Maybe there is a easier way to solve it, but here is the approach I used:
When you save the configuration in a file you can edit it with any text editor. Every controller has its own row in that file. It looks like this: 
_<control id="33" kind="button" type="note" chan="1" 
value="32" value1="91" value2="91" velo="127"/>_​All you need to do is to change the _type_ _"note"_s to _"null"_ for all notes you would like to mute.
Save that file and load it into X+.

Hope it helps.


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## Gert Keunen (Jan 8, 2021)

StefanE said:


> The sounds you hear probably are probably caused be the sensitivity sensor of the faders. Every time you touch them X+ sends a note message per default, i.e. every fader and knob can send 2 different messages, e.g. a cc when you move it and another event when you just touch it. What you need to do is to stop the X+ to send any event when you are just touching a controller.
> 
> Maybe there is a easier way to solve it, but here is the approach I used:
> When you save the configuration in a file you can edit it with any text editor. Every controller has its own row in that file. It looks like this:
> ...


Thanks Stefan,
Unfortunately this is not working. When i change 'note' into' null' in text editor and load in into the M+, all those buttons just stop working.
Also the problem has nothing to do with the faders/touching. When you program a midi note message in iMap, you'll hear instrument sound when using it in your daw (when 'all midi in' is selected; which is necessary for midi cc learning).


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## Gert Keunen (Jan 11, 2021)

StefanE said:


> ad 2: The lowest note shown in iMap is C-1, but on my PC in Cubase it is received 1 octave below, i.e. it's recorded as C-2. I'd expect the same for B+ (I do not have one, so I can't check it).


Hi Stefan,
One thing remains a problem. When I set up the M+ (of X+) into Mackie Control/User Defined Mode, and set up midi note messages C-1 etc in iMap, the M+/X+ is sending standard solo- and mute-messages (= that's typical for Mackie Control, even in User Defined mode) and not for instance a C-1 or C-2 to an instrument which is connected to the track.
How can you get for instance key switches to C-1/C-2 and not just the standard solo-messages?


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## ChrisHarrison (Jan 14, 2021)

I use composer tools pro and expression maps for my spitfire orchestra. 

It’s a game changer for me. Each instrument has all articulations loaded. Made a kontakt multi with performance legato, all main, and extended techniques 

Made pages in CT pro. 

Made expression maps. 

I can share this stuff if anyone wants it. 

I’ve created it for the whole spitfire symphony, every instrument.


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## Gert Keunen (Jan 14, 2021)

ChrisHarrison said:


> I use composer tools pro and expression maps for my spitfire orchestra.
> 
> It’s a game changer for me. Each instrument has all articulations loaded. Made a kontakt multi with performance legato, all main, and extended techniques
> 
> ...


Me too, but the combination is very useful: when trying out the right articulation for a new part, it's easy with key switches on another device (in my case: iCon Platform); when working on this new track in my DAW, expression maps are the best.
You speak about sharing your expression maps: I'm very interested! Is that possible?


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## Synetos (Jan 16, 2021)

Gerbil said:


> Definitely not the stream deck. I love mine but the buttons have a light depth and click which would put me off using them for this purpose.


I am not sure I understand what you mean about the noise it makes, the "click" sound is less noise than my midi keys make when playing. You can dim the light as much as you want. This thing is nice and small and sits right on my keyboard. I wish it had a couple touch fader strips on it and I could use it for expression.

Firing up an ipad and keeping that running all the time seems far more trouble than a stream deck, and there is nothing tactile about an ipad. I gotta look at it all the time. I have a touch windows monitor and thought about using MaxMSP, but even a small monitor takes up real-estate, and isn't sitting right on my keyboard. 

Plus, you can setup folder layers to make custom buttons as many levels deep as you want. I am not limited to 15 buttons. I can make as many folders and layouts as I want with labels and pics, etc. 

I think stream deck is a great piece of kit and is very useful for articulations, key commands, or anything else you want to use it for. i even have mine setup controlling the HUE lights in my studio. For $160 it was so worth it.


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## janila (Apr 25, 2021)

Is there a way to do the following with any these tools? I’m using Cubase 11 and haven’t yet gone through the trouble of building expression maps and hardware control for articulations to my extensive template so I’m wondering which way to go with the endeavor.

1. Show only keyswitches that are supported by the instrument by either graying out unnecessary icons from a fixed grid or by showing only the supported ones. I assume this requires setting up expression maps.

2. Control things that aren’t in the focused window like changing mixer presets without having to click the mixer first.


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## David Kudell (Apr 25, 2021)

Update April 2021: I moved away from keyswitches to single track per articulation. However I did get both a stream deck and have Metagrid running on my iPad, both with shortcuts to my most-used Cubase functions. They both kind of do the same thing so I’m still figuring out what functions are best for each device, but I can recommend either one. If you have an iPad I’d start with Metagrid because it has a ton of shortcuts already built in so you’ll learn new ones you never thought of.


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## ChrisHarrison (Apr 25, 2021)

@janilla, only product I know that does that is composer tools pro. Gotta set expression maps.
Email me at [email protected] and I can send you guys my expression maps and my composer tools file with all my key switches mapped.
I’ve yet to set up the thing where it auto switches when you select and instrument, but I know it’s possible.
I have my instruments set up in Multis in kontakt so I have legato, main techniques, and extended in one patch.
One articulation per patch is what I use for my sketching folder on my ensemble patches to just get the idea down. The I break out parts and program more detailed per instrument


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## ChrisHarrison (Apr 25, 2021)

As far as mapping tracks to permanent faders, my artist mix lets you lock faders to specific tracks. I also know the console 1 fader let’s you control tracks with the plug-in on it. In theory, you can just put the plug on the tracks you want and have fixed control on those ones always in focus. 
artist mix will let you lock a few faders and keep the rest in normal mode, which banks and auto selects for you on your mixer view.
You can probably set up fixed tracks with a generic midi remote in Cubase too using any Mackie control universal fader box, such as icon or fader port in mcu mode


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## 24dBFS (Apr 25, 2021)

@janilla, yes SHERLOCK VST can do all that and so much more! Just download the free DEMO version of the plugin and try it for yourself. You can even save 16 Faders and 4 XY Pads assigned to any selected track in Cubase and use the dynamic (contextual) buttons to show you the articulation switches for every selected track. Any Cubase command is already available in a Menu so you - the user - just click on a button and assign it to whatever command you like without a hassle!
Feel free to ask if you have any more questions regarding the plugins functionality.
Have a great evening!
Karol Obara - 14bitMIDI


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## IFM (Apr 25, 2021)

David Kudell said:


> Update April 2021: I moved away from keyswitches to single track per articulation. However I did get both a stream deck and have Metagrid running on my iPad, both with shortcuts to my most-used Cubase functions. They both kind of do the same thing so I’m still figuring out what functions are best for each device, but I can recommend either one. If you have an iPad I’d start with Metagrid because it has a ton of shortcuts already built in so you’ll learn new ones you never thought of.


That’s a lot of tracks. I just spent the time building Exp Maps so that I can keep a less cluttered setup.


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## rgames (May 31, 2021)

janila said:


> Is there a way to do the following with any these tools? I’m using Cubase 11 and haven’t yet gone through the trouble of building expression maps and hardware control for articulations to my extensive template so I’m wondering which way to go with the endeavor.
> 
> 1. Show only keyswitches that are supported by the instrument by either graying out unnecessary icons from a fixed grid or by showing only the supported ones. I assume this requires setting up expression maps.
> 
> 2. Control things that aren’t in the focused window like changing mixer presets without having to click the mixer first.


#1 - yes, easy to do with tabs in Lemur. That's the setup I use. It doesn't require expression maps but I use them for other reasons.

#2 - not sure.

rgames


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## givemenoughrope (May 31, 2021)

I use Cubase Expression Maps with a KMI Qunexus keyboard to switch arts. Easy enough as long as I can see the arts list on the side of track.


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## jcrosby (May 31, 2021)

Metagrid's the greatest thing since bread was sliced.


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