# What is everyone using for SURGE PROTECTION?



## Rob Elliott (Oct 23, 2014)

I just lost power for a split second (from city) - hasn't happened in over 5 years - very rare actually. But first thought was surge protection (for when it comes back on). I have a std Fuhrman on some of the gear and 'expensive' joules protecting power strips for the other. Is this enough? Options?


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## marclawsonmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Hi Rob,

Great question.

To give protection beyond power surges and 'brown outs', you might want to consider a UPS so your computer (and other gear) can continue to run even without wall power.

I am using two of these --> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BX1000G

In case of a total loss of power, you have plenty of time to save your work and shut down your computer(s) gracefully. In case of a 'brown out' or power blip, your gear will not even blink and you can continue working without interruption.

It is also a good idea to plug in your monitors into one of these so they don't pop (or blow or feed back) when power comes back on.

It's an easy investment to prevent against blown computers, power supplies, external drives, monitors, outboard gear... or corrupted files due to improper computer shutdown. A UPS is a life-saver.

Best,
Marc


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## chibear (Oct 23, 2014)

+1 to Marc

I live in a rural area where occasional blackouts are a fact of life. Without battery backup and surge protection I would have fried my system several times over. I use APC also.


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## Walra48 (Oct 23, 2014)

I use the APC Pro 1500. I'm in a stable power area but you can never be too careful.
Also I have a Furman M-8Lx in the rack for amps, synths and stuff. Keeps everything clean and quiet.

http://www.cdw.ca/shop/products/APC-Bac ... S+Pro+1500


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 23, 2014)

Thanks guys - about 10 years ago I bought an APC (I think it might have been a 1500 pro.) Hard to recall the details (after all that music) :D - but it gave me fits of actually 'messing' with things. I ended up sending it back. Perhaps the new generation of UPS is more stable - easy to set up.

I have 4 puters and two monitors - so i would say I'd need the 1500 pro. Comments on proper set up and maintenance?

Thanks in advance.


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 23, 2014)

This Amazon user review seems a bit troubling - like it would happen to me. Anyone having these issues with the APC




When I called APC tech support to find out why my new BX1000G* would not power my Dell XPS 9000 in a power outage, the customer rep knew exactly what was wrong. My Dell computer (and many others) needed a pure sine wave input and this APC series of UPS produces a "step approximated sine wave". She even emailed me a company white paper that explained why it was not compatible with many of the newer energy star compliant computers that have "Active Power Factor Correction" power supplies. She recommended that I exchange it for their "smart-ups" model SMT1000 which produces a pure sine wave. This sounded OK until I discovered that the SMT1000 costs almost four times as much as the BX1000G! Google for "apc ups active pfc" to learn much more about this problem. Call APC to find out if your particular PC is compatible before ordering.
My solution was to order another brand, CyberPower, pure sine wave unit from Amazon CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS 1500VA 900W PFC Compatible Pure Sine Wave. It provides more power (1500VA) and costs less than ½ what APC charges for their 1000VA pure sine wave unit. CyberPower also sells a 1000VA pure sine wave unit on Amazon that sells for about the same price as this BR1000G APC unit.CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD UPS 1000VA 600W PFC Compatible Pure Sine Wave
I will update this review after I've had a chance to check out the CyberPower unit.


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 23, 2014)

Here's another comment on its 'surge protection' - or lack thereof



As a note: this is only rated for 355 Joules!! DO NOT USE THIS DEVICE AS A SURGE PROTECTOR. It will NOT save your devices unless it is a very weak surge. If you do use this device, get a nice, highly rated surge protector with a low clamping voltage and put it between the wall-socket and this UPS. You will be much happier if you do! I lost a pair of speakers before I did the proper research and realized that the surge protection aspect of this device was essentially nil (fortunately it was only a pair of cheap speakers, the UPS functionality saved the computer on the other side, but I'm wary of that as "protection").


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## marclawsonmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Rob Elliott @ Thu Oct 23 said:


> I have 4 puters and two monitors - so i would say I'd need the 1500 pro. Comments on proper set up and maintenance?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


My 2 cents...

- Do not connect the USB cable to your computer.
- Do not install the software that comes with the UPS.

This allows the UPS to auto-poweroff your computer in the case of an outage (I'm sure it does other things, too... but nothing that I need).

I just plug my computer / devices into the back of it and use it as a battery backup / surge protector... I don't use any of the automated BS.

In terms of joules and amount of protection, you will never be able to protect your gear against a direct lightning strike, so it is pointless to try. You just need enough surge protection to help with those brown outs and temporary surges in the power grid. (edit: the newer models may or may not have enough built-in surge protection for this)

Again, just my 2 cents.
Marc


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm using whatever it was that Fry's had with the right capacity for the right price. Who knows what the brand is; every few months I hear it beep through the wall when the power drops out briefly, and the rest of the time it just sits there filtering the power.

And I'm with Marc - the automated stuff is unnecessary. You can shut down your computer if you're working on it during a power outage, and if you're not working on it then everything is saved and who cares if it shuts down.


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## wst3 (Oct 23, 2014)

curmudgeon time... you have been warned!

Power seems to be the next big area for FUD and snake oil, which is disappointing, but there you go.

There are a number of problems that one might need to address, and from the OP I'm not sure exactly what the question is, so I'll try to cover them all, and I will try to be brief...

*Surge Protection *- this refers to a device that prevents extreme power disturbances from reaching your computer. Most are designed to prevent over-voltage (not power, not current) from reaching your power supplies.

There are two basic flavors (in spite of marketing hype):
1) Shunt mode protection - very common, very inexpensive, and marginally suitable, if you are careful. Most shunt mode devices employ MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) which do not conduct electricity until they reach a certain threshold, at which point they are pretty close to a dead short.

These devices are placed (in the US, differs elsewhere) from Hot to ground, from Neutral to ground, and sometimes from Hot to Neutral. When the voltage surges they conduct to energy to ground (or neutral).

It sorta/kinda works, but it causes as many problems as it solves. But that's not the bad news. The bad news is that after a few operations - or many in some cases - they will fail open. That means that you THINK you are protected, but you aren't. And that's bad!

2) Series Mode - for a long time SurgeX held the patent on series mode protection, but now the patent has expired, and several companies offer variations on their design. 

Series mode works by absorbing the extra energy. There are two principle benefits - first, energy is NOT dumped into ground, which can damage some power supplies, and second, if they fail (and they generally don't, until they fail dramatically, with flames and smoke) they fail open and no power can get through. You can't turn your gear on, but at least you know you are no longer protected.

So, if your principle concern is power surges, or power dips followed by power surges, a series mode protection device is the best solution.

*Noise Filters* - there is such a thing as dirty power. Generally speaking it is not a problem for computers, and most digital devices, but analog gear can suffer from noise problems if it is on a noisy power circuit.

There are a handful of noise filters on the market that work, but generally speaking this is one of those problems that is best solved at the source, not with a 'band-aid' - especially for fixed installations. However, sometimes there is nothing you can do about it - your local utility is simply not providing clean power. Maybe there is a factory with large machinery in your neighborhood?

For those cases, and for portable rigs I'd suggest a UPS instead of a noise filter. But it has to be the right kind of UPS. More on that in a moment.

*Voltage Regulators* - this is another utility problem, and this one you can (generally, again in the USA) scream to your local Utility commission and the power company has to fix the problem. It is in their agreement that gives them utility status.

If you absolutely need a voltage regulator there are several on the market. I've used Furman and Juice Goose and I'm comfortable recommending them.

*All-the-way-around Power Protection*

So once upon a time Uninterruptible Power Supplies were stupid expensive, which led to folks buying voltage regulators, noise filters, surge protectors, and battery backup devices.

Now, thanks to the ubiquitous personal computer, they've come way down in cost, and they've become easier to manage, and they provide a lot of benefits.

A properly designed UPS will absorb surges, filter out noise, regulate the voltage, and keep your equipment on in the event of a power loss. How long your equipment stays on, and how much equipment you can keep on depends on how much you want to spend.

As with everything (or so it seems) there are devices appropriate for studio use, and those that are not.

The first choice you need to make is how much gear, and how long - do you just need to keep your computers up long enough for a graceful shutdown? Do you plan to work while the lights are out? Maybe somewhere in between?

Sizing a UPS is a topic for another post, and most of the manufacturers already do a great job helping... so start there.

Other considerations:
1) you want clean power - the first few generations of UPS devices tended to create a LOT of electrical noise. Pure sine wave power is expensive, but low noise power is not. Check the specs.
2) you want regulation - I haven't seen a UPS that didn't regulate well in eons, but you might want to check the specs.
3) you probably want continuous power - this goes by different names depending on the manufacturer, but basically you want the 110VAC source to charge the batteries, and you want the batteries to power your equipment so that in the event of an outage you don't have any blips. Blips are bad!

One big UPS or lots of smaller UPS's? I don't think there is a right answer to this one. I use a bunch of littler ones because, well, because that's how it evolved at our house. 

We have a small UPS that will keep our Cable Modem and router up and running for a day or more. 

We have another one that protects the Tivo, although it is only good for a few hours - still, long enough to be able to shut the thing off gracefully. I've also got a couple cell phone chargers connected to this one. Once Tivo is turned off we're good to charge our phones for days.

If (when?) I finally break down and replace our CRT television with a flat screen I'll probably replace the little UPS so that we can power the TV. Not sure why - I think it is the geek factor at work. But I digress...

There is another little one for my wife's office. Nuff said, it will power her iMac for an hour or so, plenty of time to close out her work and shut down. The monitor on that thing draws enough power that she can't just keep working.

In the studio there is a somewhat larger UPS that powers the DAW, studio router, and one monitor. There is other gear that probably ought to be connected to it, but for now I'm ok with this solution. I have about three hours to shut the gear down. As Nick points out, if I'm not home then the only risk is a power supply failure. Data should be safe.

As an aside - We live just far enough outside our local municipality that power outages are more common, and more lengthy than I'd like. Our house is 100% electric (seemed like a good idea when we bought it 11 years ago) including the well. 

I have borrowed gas generators from friends when we've had multi-day outages, but I hate to borrow anything, and especially something I could break. We are looking into a combination of solar panels and a whole house generator, at which time I will still keep the UPS's for all their other benefits.

Point being - a battery fed UPS will solve a lot of power related problems, and it will do so at a reasonable cost. As an added benefit, it will keep your equipment on so that you can shut it down. Just be careful to check the specifications carefully!


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## rgames (Oct 23, 2014)

Timely - I just lost a drive that was (probably) related to a brief power outage. I think the outage (or, more likely, the reconnect) produced a spike that fried one of my SSDs. I never lost power and the system never shut down but it goes to show what can happen if you don't have a good surge suppressor (I didn't) and that it can be a problem even if you aren't among those who actually lose power.

A UPS and a surge suppressor are two different beasts - sometimes they're combined into one unit but, as you've discovered, the specs can vary widely. My guess is it's probably better to keep the surge suppressor ahead of the UPS to protect it. I'm looking in to it now...

Honestly, though, that's the first time that's ever happened to me. And I can't conclusively say the drive failure is related to the surge, but they are correlated in time...

rgames


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 23, 2014)

Great posts - very helpful.

Yea Richard - I was thinking a good surge protector ahead of the APC 1500 pro should be the ticket. Heck i bet my 'expensive' power string surge protector should be good enough - but let me know what you find out.

My question to folks is - I am limited in my cooler closet for addition hardware so could I get by on ONE 1500 pro's - serving 4 puters and 2 monitors. I have really only seen 1-2 second power losses here where the studio is and in the rare case of total power loss - extended time - I should have enough time to gracefully shut down the 4 puters.

Thoughts?


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## chimuelo (Oct 23, 2014)

Protection is more important than back up, where losing a storage device or popping a start up switch in a PC can ruin your week.

Find a used SurgeX as the new models are quite expensive, but worth every dollar.
We have an entire PA system, lighting rigs and stage monitors running off of a pair of 1U's.
I've had them for 12 years and they have definitely earned their money.

For a small home rig needing 8 x ACs a Furman PL Plus II is probably good enough.
Make sure to get 8 x 6" cable connectors for the back. They swivel to make any connection fit, and are great for Wal Warts from Wal Mart quality gear.


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 23, 2014)

chimuelo @ Thu Oct 23 said:


> Protection is more important than back up, where losing a storage device or popping a start up switch in a PC can ruin your week.
> 
> Find a used SurgeX as the new models are quite expensive, but worth every dollar.
> We have an entire PA system, lighting rigs and stage monitors running off of a pair of 1U's.
> ...




Thanks chimuelo. Is this the one your were referring to?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001JJB2GM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001JJ ... PDKIKX0DER)


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## Rob Elliott (Oct 23, 2014)

I am definitely getting the APC pro 1500 but this is the surge protector I have been using (APC SurgeArrest)

https://www.google.com/shopping/product ... ec:reviews

Good enough?


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## wst3 (Oct 23, 2014)

If you have a UPS you only need additional protection if you are trying to protect the UPS.

The UPS will protect your equipment - let me rephrase that - a good UPS will protect your equipment.

As far as surge suppression goes, I won't say mean things about other companies, but I will say that the series mode protection offered by SurgeX and Middle Atlantic is worth every penny.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 23, 2014)

The UPS I have is a big battery, at least that's what I've always assumed it is. And the battery basically acts like a big capacitor.

For studio noise I have a 1:1 transformer box that isolates stuff from the AC grid and makes it safe to lift the grounds. It has a bunch of fused outlets with different ratings, and it's too bad the company (Midimotor) isn't around any more. It's been sitting on my floor for 20 years at least, working away every day.


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## chimuelo (Oct 23, 2014)

Damn, I haven't seen a HumBuster for years, those were everywhere back when Logic was PC... :lol: 

And yes Rob, that's the newest version. 
It's looks different than mine, but mine is 10 years old.




photo hosting


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Oct 23, 2014)

I've heard that the lower end APC devices aren't very good which is why I got a Cyberpower UPS. I haven't had any issues with it so far. I'm using the automatic shutdown for my main computer but the power has never been out long enough for that to happen.


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## chibear (Oct 23, 2014)

wst3 @ Thu Oct 23 said:


> If you have a UPS you only need additional protection if you are trying to protect the UPS.


This! That's the reason they put such exorbitant equipment replacement guarantees on their product. The UPS isolates your equipment from the power grid. It's circuits will be fried or a fuse will blow before a surge gets to the battery.

Rural homes have similar lightning arresters in our breaker panel that blow before the lightning strike gets into the household wiring. It's $125 replacement vs all your appliances and electronics (that aren't on surge protectors).


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## IFM (Oct 24, 2014)

Bill beat me to it with a much more lengthy post than I was going to say. MOV's are cheap and is what is in pretty much every low end (and even expensive) surge protectors. The SurgeX, which as Bill said had the patent run out, was the king for dealing with repeated hits. It does more than that though as it deals with other power issues (dips, etc). 

http://youtu.be/RixUrc-FRcM

Chris


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## AC986 (Oct 24, 2014)

When I had the house rewired, I asked them to put the studio room on a separate ring main, which they did.


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## marclawsonmusic (Oct 24, 2014)

chimuelo @ Thu Oct 23 said:


> photo hosting


Cool keyboard, chim. I bet it's easy to see in the dark!

Bill (wst), awesome curmudgeon post. :D I learned alot from that. Seriously.


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## Arksun (Oct 24, 2014)

For most of my equipment it just runs off an 8-way APC Surge powerstrip, which is fine for protecting against small spikes.

Nothings gonna protect against lightning though, if the electricity is so strong it can rip through air over vast distances, nothings gonna stop the path of least resistance that it wants to take. The general rule is if your equipment has a likely point of contact like an antenna (like say a TV), keep it plugged in so if the aerial does get struck it takes the safest path down to earth rather than jumping to a person in the room, otherwise I'd just unplug during a storm.

I have the computer + audio interface running off an APC Smart UPS SMT1000I. I've always found the Smart UPS line by APC to be rock solid and they've saved me a few times during power cuts to be able to save my data and power down.

As a side note, undervoltage situations like a brown out can be potentially damaging to anything with a motor in it, like the fridge or washing machine. I tend to be extra cautious and just power off the studio stuff even in a brown out situation for those pieces of equipment using a toroidal psu expecting to be receiving a 240v signal. Multi-voltage/frequency switch mode type power supplies may well be perfectly fine in such situations.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Oct 24, 2014)

> When I had the house rewired, I asked them to put the studio room on a separate ring main, which they did.



Same here (after the '94 earthquake). However, the circuit still isn't isolated from the rest of the grid, it's just on a separate breaker.

Hence the isolation transformer.

Question: has anyone had an off-brand UPS go bad? Everyone always recommends APC, but I think that's just because they're the name everyone knows (which isn't intended to dis them, just a comment).

Unless the components fail because they're really lousy, the only difference I can imagine would be that one battery could wear out faster than another.


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## Arksun (Oct 24, 2014)

Nick Batzdorf @ Fri Oct 24 said:


> Question: has anyone had an off-brand UPS go bad? Everyone always recommends APC, but I think that's just because they're the name everyone knows (which isn't intended to dis them, just a comment).
> 
> Unless the components fail because they're really lousy, the only difference I can imagine would be that one battery could wear out faster than another.



Before I got an APC SmartUPS I was using a Belkin one which, on paper seemed pretty good spec. But build quality wise felt a bit plastic and flimsy and ultimately failed after a couple years.


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## markstyles (Oct 26, 2014)

I've been using APC UPS's for 30 years.. I had one die about 6 months ago.. Actually the battery overheated, and cracked open.. but it was used for 29 years.. Still shut down properly..

As mentioned before, a UPS feeds out electricity from it's battery so, it's always pure, no spikes, no brown outs.. It's a necessary and great investment. 

Also useful to shut off and stop all electricity when not being used.. Those wall warts are sucking AC whether you're instruments are on/off. Electricity has gotten very expensive in NYC - so powering down everything at end of session is good.


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## proxima (Oct 26, 2014)

markstyles @ Sun Oct 26 said:


> As mentioned before, a UPS feeds out electricity from it's battery so, it's always pure, no spikes, no brown outs.. It's a necessary and great investment.


This is not true for most UPSes. For "online" UPSes, this is the case, but most of us are not spending that kind of cash (usually > $1000). Your standard APC and Cyperpower UPSes switch to battery when the incoming voltage drops too far, and also acts as a surge protector. You can hear an audible clicking sound when they turn on. Better UPSes switch to battery power more quickly.

I live in an area with iffy power during storms (and a nasty brownout about a year ago), so everything of value is on a collection of APC UPSes (even my TV, router, WAP, etc). It's served me quite well, but the dog has been conditioned to hear the UPS click sound as a sign that a storm (and the UPS's annoying alarm) is imminent.


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## Uncle Peter (Oct 26, 2014)

Samson Powerbrite Pro 10


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## Dryden.Chambers (Oct 27, 2014)

Furman for audio and electronics.
Belkin and APC UPS for computer stuff.


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## synergy543 (Oct 27, 2014)

I live in a remote area where there are occasional power outages and brownouts. I use the APC Smart UPS 1500 and its saved me many times. It keeps my computer (plus 30 inch monitor and external hard drives) running long enough to safely shut down during and long outage and keeps everything running through short brownouts. If there's a nearby lightning storm I'll either gamble, or shut everything down and unplug. NOTHING will save your ass if you get hit directly by lightning. Even the insurance may consider it an "act of god".

There is a newer version of the APC Smart UPS 1500 but I'd just buy a used or refurbished older unit and make sure it has a good battery. The batteries cost about $100 and are heavy but relatively easy to change. Larger units require 240V sockets so if you need more protection, you can get several smaller units. I have four running in the house.

http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMART-UPS-1500-SUA1500-UPS/dp/B000T53NE6/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1414436746&sr=8-5&keywords=apc+smart+ups+1500 (http://www.amazon.com/APC-SMART-UPS-150 ... t+ups+1500)


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## wst3 (Oct 27, 2014)

this is the sort of thing that makes system design so much fun!

On the one hand, multiple UPS's increases system reliability because you eliminate a single point of failure. It also tends to be less expensive to implement, and more cost effective to maintain, since you are seldom replacing all the batteries at any one time.

There is a potential problem lurking - multiple UPS devices can play havoc with the grounding in your studio, if you aren't careful, and that can lead to noise problems. On top of that, some UPS outputs are quite noisy all by them selves.

There is no "one size fits all" solution I'm afraid.

Right now I use a single 'always on' UPS to power two PCs and two monitors, and a couple of external storage devices that are off most of the time anyway. Everything else is on it's own, but I don't really think anything short of a direct lighting strike will damage most of that stuff.

There is also a series mode surge suppressor that feeds the entire room (won't be able to get away with that for a whole lot longer!)

I should also have lighting arresters on the property, and a lighting suppressor on the service entrance. I'll probably take care of the later first, as the former is a lot more work.


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## synergy543 (Oct 27, 2014)

wst3 @ Mon Oct 27 said:


> There is a potential problem lurking - multiple UPS devices can play havoc with the grounding in your studio, if you aren't careful, and that can lead to noise problems. On top of that, some UPS outputs are quite noisy all by them selves.


Since I've gone all digital ten years ago, I've never had a ground loop noise problem. Only the last leg of my system (DA to speakers) is analog and this portion is all on a single UPS.

As for UPS devices being noisy, yes that is true. Some that used stepped sine can cause trouble with wall warts and I've had a few drives die from bad UPS units. So this is why I use the APC Smart UPS which filters the sine AC. I've had no problems with these units over a ten year period.


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## wst3 (Oct 27, 2014)

I'm a wee bit jealous Mr. Synergy543! I still have a ton of analog audio in my studio - actually I like it, but that all-digital thing is tempting!!

I'm waiting for loudspeakers with digital inputs (they do exist), but then I need a digital output from my acoustic guitars - and I am pretty sure I would not be happy with that<G>!


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## synergy543 (Oct 27, 2014)

wst3 @ Mon Oct 27 said:


> I'm a wee bit jealous Mr. Synergy543! I still have a ton of analog audio in my studio - actually I like it, but that all-digital thing is tempting!!


Hey, I've got TONS of analog gear surrounding me too! 
I just never use it anymore. If you're interested in anything let me know, I may have it.

Rhodes Stage 77 Piano
Eventide H3000
Lexicon PCM91
Roland Super Jupiter Rack and External control
Panasonic SV4100 DAT
etc.


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## milesito (Nov 29, 2014)

what's the consensus for an iMAC, my speakers, and SSD rack for a UPS between:

Furman F1000 UPS
or
APS Back-UPS 1500G?

Thanks!


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## wst3 (Nov 29, 2014)

What are you looking to accomplish? The two devices you list are both uninterruptible power supples, not surge protectors, although a UPS will provide some protection from surges. 

How well a UPS protects you depends on the design, and only a UPS that powers your equipment via the batteries and an inverter will provide the same level of protection as a series mode surge protection device.

Depending on your requirements, and the power grid in your location, the best solution is a series mode surge protector in front of a UPS.

That might be overkill for you, it might not - can you elaborate on your requirements?


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## khollister (Nov 29, 2014)

Series mode surge protectors are where it's at. The sacrificial MOV units are almost useless for anything remotely serious. SurgeX and Brickwall are the usual suspects. The Brickwall units aren't packaged as nice as the SurgeX units but they are functional and much less expensive.

Do NOT rely on any UPS for surge protection. All of my computer, music and home theater equipment is run from one of several Brickwall series mode arrestors I have. UPS's (if required) come after the Brickwall.

You also need to make sure your building grounding is up to snuff as well.


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## milesito (Nov 29, 2014)

Good points ...Thanks for the feedback. I would like to protect my data from power loss situations. Any specific brick wall models? For computer or home theatre?

Is this any good? http://m.guitarcenter.com/Furman-SS-6B- ... 1125139.gc


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## wst3 (Nov 29, 2014)

nonononononononono!!!!

That Furman is exactly the kind of device that can cause more problems than it can solve. It uses shunt devices (MOVs) and they dump the surge into the ground - but since it isn't at the service entrance it can still cause problems.

For data protection from power loss you need a UPS. A surge protector (good or bad) is the wrong tool for the job.


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## synergy543 (Nov 29, 2014)

milesito @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> Good points ...Thanks for the feedback. I would like to protect my data from power loss situations. Any specific brick wall models? For computer or home theatre?


To protect from power loss you need an uninterruptible power supply. You have to match the load with the wattage of the UPS as that determines how long you will have power when the service goes out. Usually you need at least five to ten minutes to safely shut everything down (and over time, that will get shorter as the batteries gets older) Maybe something like this would work for your setup. I think I saw this at Costco yesterday for $99.
http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500AVRLCD-Intelligent-1500VA-Mini-Tower/dp/B000FBK3QK (http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500 ... B000FBK3QK)

I haven't tried the one above. I'm running an older APC Smart UPS 1500 which has worked well many times over the years. The APC costs a bit more, but today, I'd try the CyperPower as its quite a bit cheaper (even cheaper than replacement batteries for the APC) and they are just a basically a pile of batteries with some simple converter electronics. If it works as spec'd, it should do the job. Also, free shipping is nice, as on some of the UPS units they charge upwards of $50+ for shipping so beware.


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## milesito (Nov 29, 2014)

how do I confirm if an iMac needs a sinusoidal or can get by with a simulated sinusoidal signal for the CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS 1500VA 900W AVR Mini-Tower ...


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## khollister (Nov 29, 2014)

milesito @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> how do I confirm if an iMac needs a sinusoidal or can get by with a simulated sinusoidal signal for the CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS 1500VA 900W AVR Mini-Tower ...



All macs from the past several years have Power Factor Correction (PFC) power supplies. You should really use a sine wave UPS to prevent damage to the power supply.


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## synergy543 (Nov 29, 2014)

milesito @ Sat Nov 29 said:


> how do I confirm if an iMac needs a sinusoidal or can get by with a simulated sinusoidal signal for the CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS 1500VA 900W AVR Mini-Tower ...


The Mac power supplies tend to be very forgiving (because they have their own power supplies with robust filtering), but I've had walwarts blow out with stepped power supplies (though they tend to burn out by themselves too). There is no "definitive" answer as its a matter of balancing cost vs performance. Myself, I wouldn't be afraid to run a Mac on a stepped powersupply and this unit has several thousand positive ratings. However, if you're willing to spend a few hundred more, the APC Smart UPS advertises a pure sine wave. Just as with any insurance though, you have to decide your own comfort level and you can never be 100% insured...there are a million ways to die in the West.


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## Soundhound (Apr 24, 2015)

Reviving this thread for a bit of clarification and some recommendations. I've had a few power outages in my area recently. We get brownouts every now and then, and it dawned on my that I should get one of these devices to allow me to power down or perhaps even work through shorter outages. 

I've included links at the bottom for an APC and a couple of Cyberpower models. APCs seem to be the go to recommendation here, the Cyberpowers seem to be getting happy reviews as well. 

Are there significant differences between these models I've shown below? Or something else I should be looking at? I'm thinking of getting one to start, see what the runtime is during a blackout, then maybe adding another. 

Also, is sine wave important for our purposes? (vi composing, 2 iMacs, ssds in blackmagic multidock, Apollo Twin and Octo satellite, several 7200 drives/drobo etc for storage.) 

Thanks! 

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Sinewave-Compa (http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500 ... wave-Compa) tible-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429902246&sr=8-1&keywords =Cyberpower+sinewave+1500 


http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500AVRLCD-Intell igent-1500VA-Mini-Tower/dp/B000FBK3QK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1429902070&sr=8-3&k eywords=uninterruptible+power+supply 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007ZT2KKM/ref=wl _it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=LJX3RB28SW1&coliid=I2X1HUKRX3NGID&psc=1


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## charlieclouser (Apr 24, 2015)

proxima @ Sun Oct 26 said:


> markstyles @ Sun Oct 26 said:
> 
> 
> > As mentioned before, a UPS feeds out electricity from it's battery so, it's always pure, no spikes, no brown outs.. It's a necessary and great investment.
> ...



Yes, this is a very important distinction between different types of UPS units.

If you want to be always running off the battery, which is constantly being recharged, then the UPS has to be an "online" type, not a "line-interactive" type. A line-interactive UPS will only provide backup battery power when the incoming utility power goes out, but most of the time the battery is not even in circuit with the power that's arriving at your gear's inputs - it's just standing by, waiting for the power to drop, at which point it will switch into the circuit seamlessly and provide backup power for XX minutes.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you want to plug into a normal 15-amp wall socket, the biggest UPS you can get is usually 1500kva or so. There are some slightly larger units that have a standard NEMA 5-15 type connector (what we know as a standard 3-prong power cable), but for the most part, beyond 1500kva you get into 20 amp units that use a "hubbell" connector, which is a different plug that won't just go into the wall socket. You'd need an electrician to run a 20-amp line for you. Not fun.

The Google term to search for is "APC SURTA 1500xl" or "APC SURTA 1500rmxl2u", which are the biggest capacity, "true online" UPS that APC makes which will still plug into a normal wall socket. These also provide a true sine-wave output. Around $1k each. 2-space rack mount or stand-up tower mounting. These are not those little shoe-box-looking guys, these are big and freaking heavy.

APC are by far the market leader, and their is robust support for replacement batteries and reconditioned units as well. I have some APC units that have been in constant use for a decade or more. Ugly and expensive, but really the best. I have had other gear (not UPS supplies) from CyberPower and Tripp-Lite that have not been as robust as APC stuff - those brands seem oriented more towards the home theater market as opposed to APC which serves the data center market with gigantic, refrigerator-sized mission-critical UPS units.


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## Soundhound (Apr 24, 2015)

I don't know that the power situation in my area warrants an 'online' type UPS? Anyone have experience with any of those models I listed?


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## proxima (Apr 24, 2015)

Soundhound @ Fri Apr 24 said:


> I don't know that the power situation in my area warrants an 'online' type UPS? Anyone have experience with any of those models I listed?


For most people, an online UPS would be overkill. It really depends on the value and the sensitivity of the devices you're trying to protect. 

A consumer or small business grade UPS like the ones you're looking at are designed to power a desktop and a few other devices for long enough to have the computer shut itself down (they connect via USB with some software to monitor the remaining battery life), protecting data integrity. Many devices are actually pretty robust - think of all the people and businesses without UPSes at all. You're just buying some extra protection to nearly eliminate the risk of data loss and further reduce the risk of hardware damage. Still, don't expect these UPSes to power more than 5-30 minutes or so, depending on how big a battery it has and how much load you put on it.


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## Soundhound (Apr 24, 2015)

Thanks! Does the sine wave thing matter?


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## Øivind (Apr 24, 2015)

Using an Eaton Protection Station 800 here for computers and stuffs. Has an UPS which gives
me roughly 5-10 minutes of time depending on what i am doing. Pretty decent for the price, 
i think, and has worked well the couple of years i have used it.


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## charlieclouser (Apr 25, 2015)

When we had a large studio in New Orleans we had everything on true-online UPS systems - but we had a gigantic SSL 4k console, dozens of computers, 50+ synths, rack after rack of Pultecs, etc. - and the power in N'awlins would go out if the wind blew or a bus drove by. The four units we had just for the SSL were each the size of a mini-fridge and made by Toshiba I think. We "had" to do it because if the power went out and came back on before you could race into the machine room and power down the SSL brains something would blow up and that meant a plane ticket and hotel room for the SSL tech to come down from Nashville. 

So in those years I got into the habit of running my whole room from an online UPS. Now that I'm in LA the power has only gone out two or three times in the last decade, and lots of my room is not on the UPS. I have never lost data or blown up anything, despite my current half-arsed approach to power conditioning.

There are those who say the true sine-wave and massively regulated aspect of an online UPS can help audio quality, noise floor, etc. - and to me it sure sounds like it can't hurt, right? But is it a "must"? Probably not. Especially if you're all-digital and in-the-box. Modern computer's power supplies are far better than they were 20 years ago, and probably won't explode due to fluctuations in line voltage - but I'm unsure whether a line-interactive UPS provides the same level of "pure and regulated" input voltage that you'd get from an online UPS. 

Anybody have knowledge of how the two types compare in that department?


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## Tanuj Tiku (Apr 25, 2015)

I used to have a lot of earthing and power problems in various places I lived. I then bought an On-Line UPS from APC. 

While it is reliable, guess what? I still got some interference. My speakers would create some pops at times. And well, it did not solve the earthing of course. 

I did some research and found that there is a lot of stuff that goes into the electrical wiring and cables that affect such things. 

Fat cables are your friend. For my new studio, I installed a brand new wire from the electric meter. A 10mm2 4-core cable. This is attached to the metal plate into the concrete in the ground. 

I am also using a separate earth wire for the studio. Not a technical earth - apparently these are very difficult to design and have little advantage if the main earth is clean in the first place. 

We are then probably going to using 6mm2 cables to sockets for equipment and 4mm2 for some other things. Light switches use 2mm2 and LED's 1.5 mm2. 

With fat cables you can reject interference and they are more tolerant to the sudden push and pull of power in amps for the speakers. 

We supply each important piece of gear with a separate line with a circuit breaker. The amps are calculated carefully. 

It is not rocket science. But I think these things from the ground up help a lot more over all than just adding a power conditioner or an on-line UPS.

If you are in Europe, the supply is pretty good compared to many parts of the world. 

I would lay some new wiring for the supply in your room and an online-UPS. I think this money will be well spent for the future. 

Computers are also temperamental with power. Sure they work but my intuition is that some crashes are also related to sudden change in the quality of power. I have been told that this is a real thing. 

If you are renting then perhaps an on-line UPS is a great investment. You can carry it with yourself wherever you go next. They are noisy though!!

Unless you are having a serious power related problem you do not need anything except a UPS in the event of power failure and small changes in quality of supply. 


Tanuj.


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## wst3 (Apr 25, 2015)

Fasten your seatbelts campers, this might turn out to be a long post!

Power and grounding for an audio production facility is a complex issue. Strike that, it is several complex issues, all of which interact.

The best analogy I can think of (always good to start with an analogy) is low frequency behavior in a critical listening space. There are two, interrelated issues you have to deal with, the first is keeping low frequency information in the space, or keeping disruptive low frequency energy from entering the space, Two sides of the same coin! The second is the distribution of low frequency modes in the space.

Now if you build the walls properly for isolation you exacerbate the mode problems because more energy is present in the space. If you lay out the room to minimize the mode problems you'll likely require even MORE isolation. 

The reason I like this analogy is because it is possible to address both problems, but you have to start out with the knowledge that you need to address both problems to be successful. AND, if you successfully address both problems there is a chance that you'll impact ergonomics<G>... and so it goes.

Power and grounding...

The first thing you need to need to do is define the problem!

Is it noise, power loss, under or over voltage, or damaging spikes and surges? Each condition requires different techniques!

There is only one grounding issue, which helps a little, and that is ground needs to be a very low impedance path to some common point that acts as a reference for everything else, but is (at least here in the USA) the return for all circuits. 

This can be done with the infamous "star" grounding approach, or it can be done with a mesh. It really does not matter which, and some of the most successful designs include a mix, but it has to be done properly.

A properly designed ground system is the foundation for a low noise, and reliable power distribution system. Yes, at the risk of annoying my friends who make a living designing these things, this part really is that simple. (and that complex<G>!)

Next up you need to know what power problem or problems you might face. Does your line voltage sag? Do you suffer from "brown outs" or even "black outs"? Do you experience surges, and if so are they long term or short term?

There is only one solution for blackouts, and that is some form of uninterruptible power source. As Charlie explained so well in his post, there are all sorts of UPS schemes. Generally speaking, a UPS that provides power from batteries that are constantly being charged is the best solution for a music production system.

It serves several purposes:
- it provides voltage regulation (no more under or over voltage problems)
- it filters out noise, batteries are essentially really large filters.
- it protects against spikes and short period surges

The downside is that a properly designed battery based system is large, expensive, and generates heat, it is also less efficient, although they are getting better at efficiency. 

The other problem is that even though the batteries filter out noise on the power lines, the inverters that transform the DC from the batteries back to AC can create quite a bit of noise themselves. Sometimes the cure is worse than the symptom!

If you do not suffer from line voltage fluctuations or blackouts you might be better off with simple (??) surge protection. Now this is important - there are two forms of surge suppression, shunt and series modes. Shunt mode redirects surges and spikes to ground. It is cheap (think your typical outlet strip with MOVs), but it does not get rid of the energy, it just dumps it to ground, and sometimes that is worse than letting it through. The biggest problem with these devices is that they fail, and most of them will not indicate that they have failed. Nothing worse than thinking you are protected when you aren't! (Insert tasteless jokes here)

Series mode devices are more expensive (a lot more expensive) but they absorb the energy and convert it to heat. They can fail I suppose, but I've never seen one fail. And there is an indicator that tells you that it failed, at least I assume the do, I've never seen one illuminate<G>!

If you need to protect against voltage fluctuations, but not blackouts you might consider a voltage regulator and a series mode surge suppressor. But with the proliferation of computers and computer like devices I'm not sure I'd recommend this any more, I'd probably recommends a series mode suppressor and a UPS.

My "cost is no object" solution to power and grounding in a music production facility:

1) ONE separately derived sub-panel fed from an isolation transformer with a Faraday shield. Note that how the sub-panel ground is connected to the service entrance will vary depending on your local electrical code.

2) isolated ground outlets AND wiring from every power distribution point directly back to the separately derived panel.

4) a battery fed UPS with adequate filtering on the output. This can be used to feed only those devices that are sensitive to power line fluctuations, or the entire system. This is one of the trickier design decisions.

3) adequate series mode protection - this could be one "honkin big" (that's a technical term) suppressor at the sub-panel, or it can be distributed. This is the other tricky issue. Actually, it is the combination of the #2 and #3 that causes hair pulling!

The simplest solution is often the best, and I've had good luck with one series mode protection device feeding the isolation transformer which feeds the UPS which then feeds the sub-panel. I did say simplest, I did not say simple, and it is not inexpensive. But it works.

This does not address proper termination of shields for signal interconnections, but it does provide the framework for it.

I suppose I should add a note about "balanced" or "symmetrical" power schemes. A lot of the experts on power and grounding and interconnections and noise reduction dislike these systems. Not because they don't work, but rather because they are sold as a magic solution. And they are often misunderstood!

Symmetrical power does have some small advantage over the single-ended power we use here in the USA. But the problems it solves are limited, and well understood. A large part of the benefit of commercial symmetrical power solutions are realized because they are, in effect, isolation transformers. So you could save quite a bit of money by just using an isolation transformer.

BUT, if you've done everything you can to address every other power and grounding issue properly and effectively you can gain a few dB of noise reduction by using symmetrical power. I think the cost to benefit ratio if a bit off, but only you can decide if the benefit is worth the cost.

Summary time (don't you wish I'd started here???)

Define the problem you are trying to solve - is it voltage surges, voltage spikes, under-voltage, or complete power loss? Is it noise on the power lines or noise on ground?

Voltage spikes are most efficiently addressed with a series mode surge suppressor.

Over or under voltage can be addressed by voltage regulators or a UPS

Power loss can only be addressed by a UPS, but a UPS will also address over and under voltage conditions, and to some degree surges and spikes. A UPS can also reduce noise, but if you buy the wrong one you could end up creating more noise.

Noise on power lines is best addressed with an isolation transformer.

Ground noise can only be addressed by a properly designed ground system.

Most situations call for a combination of these solutions.

And how the solutions are combined depends entirely on the size, scope, and scale of your system. I have built quiet, reliable systems with a single series mode suppressor and a handful of small UPS devices such as you find at the local office supply store. They won't let you work when the lights go out, but they will let you turn off your gear safely.

In the end this sort of design is all about compromises and optimizations, and I would strongly recommend hiring someone to help you make those choices if your facility is part (or all) of your income. If you are an amateur (and there is nothing wrong with that), then you may not NEED that much protection. 

I still think it is a wise investment, but most modern computer will survive losing power without too much data loss, so it may not be a requirement for everyone.

I hope this helps!


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## Tanuj Tiku (Apr 25, 2015)

wst3 @ Sat Apr 25 said:


> In the end this sort of design is all about compromises and optimizations, and I would strongly recommend hiring someone to help you make those choices if your facility is part (or all) of your income. If you are an amateur (and there is nothing wrong with that), then you may not NEED that much protection.



Great advice! Thanks for the details Bill! 

Also to add, some of the techniques you have mentioned are illegal in some countries. For example balanced power. If you are getting into detail, it is a good idea to check local regulations. Many electrical contractors will refuse to do most of these things as they think differently. Studios require a different approach. 

Even phase distribution is a bit of a murky subject while hiring an electrician. I had to hire someone else after the first guy basically refused to do what the studio designer had asked. 

Try to hire someone who has done some work for studios before. 


Tanuj.


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## wst3 (Apr 25, 2015)

hmmm... thought I made it clear that one needs to check with one's local code enforcement authority before proceeding with any power and grounding related design work. Since I clearly did not make it clear please remember, electrical codes differ from location to location, even within a country, or even within a county in my case<G>!

In the USA it is unusual for an electrical contractor to object to a design that is signed by a licensed engineer. If your design is not signed by a licensed engineer then you might run into questions.

If you can find an electrician (or HVAC contractor, or even general contractor) who has built studios already you are going to be ahead of the game.

FWIW, balanced power has only been included in the electrical code here in the USA since the early 1990s (I think it first appeared in the 1994 NEC, at least that is the earliest copy I have.)

And as I said, balanced power is the icing on the cake, I seldom recommend it myself, since there are so many other things one can do, for a lot less money, to gain a lot more benefit!


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## Soundhound (Apr 25, 2015)

So much great information! Thank you. Bill I don't have noise issues as most everything I do is 'in the box' and I haven't had noise problems with recording vocals and instruments, so far anyway. 

I'm thinking of getting one of the simpler 'line interattive' Cyberpower or APC units I listed above. Not sure whether it's necessary to get one with sine wave power, or is that unnecessary for my purposes?


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## wst3 (Apr 25, 2015)

Since I'm not in your studio I can't answer that definitively.

When I think of line interactive I think of a UPS that uses a transformer or autoformer to connect power to the load, and then switches to battery only when the input line drops out.

When I think of an on-line UPS I think of a device that charges the batteries from the line, but uses the batteries to power an inverter that then connects to the load.

Both of these can provide a sine wave output, conversely, both can generate quite a bit of noise. 

The big differences are:
- a line interactive UPS will only generate noise when it is in battery mode.
- there may be a small glitch/spike when a line interactive UPS switches to the batteries. I think this is rare these days.

Once again let me repeat myself (was that redundant?)... a UPS provides power to your equipment when there is not power at the outlet. That is really the purpose of a UPS. It might provide some filtering, and it will probably also provide some regulation. When the batteries are in line it also provides some surge/spike protection. But what protects it?

Since you have no noise problems you don't need a lot of filtering or isolation. And if you don't need surge protection then a line interactive UPS will work for you. If you need surge protection consider putting a series mode device in front of the UPS, at which point you can use line interactive with no real drawback really. If you plan to use your system while on UPS power then you still want a sine wave output. (although arguably that has become a marketing term, what you really want is filtering on the output<G>!)


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## RCsound (Apr 25, 2015)

Great information in this thread. What do you think about this Furman unit?:

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=M-10xE


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## wst3 (Apr 25, 2015)

Furman has not yet introduced a series mode device. These are the typical MOV based outlets, and I don't like them for reasons stated previously. 

I have several in my studio, mostly from Juice Goose, but I long ago clipped out the MOVs and joust use them as outlet strips.


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## hazza (Apr 30, 2015)

wst3 @ Sat Apr 25 said:


> Define the problem you are trying to solve - is it voltage surges, voltage spikes, under-voltage, or complete power loss? Is it noise on the power lines or noise on ground?



Confused noob here.. I need to tackle a freezer which is causing my speakers to pop - is that surges / spikes / brownouts / noise? UPS or surge protector?

Many thanks


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## wst3 (Apr 30, 2015)

This is one of those things that makes system design so much fun!

It is impossible to know for certain what your refrigerator is doing to your loudspeakers, but there are a handful of easy fixes...

1) Separate your refrigerator power from your studio power. I live in the USA, so for us it is a simple matter of moving a breaker to the other leg, I have no idea how one does this in the UK, but an electrician ought to be able to help you out.

Believe it or not, that might be all you need.

2) If it isn't, I'd be inclined to recommend a line interactive UPS and a series mode surge suppressor, and I might start with the UPS alone.

Keep in mind that's sight unseen, so my advice is worth less than you paid for it<G>!


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## Soundhound (Apr 30, 2015)

Bill, sorry to impose, but I wonder if you could advise on these two I'm thinking of getting. The first doesn't do sine wave, but rather 'simulated sine wave' I believe, but says it's 'next generation' presumably the newer model. The second does do sine wave, and I think I'd rather get sine wave. Just wondering if that second, older model is missing any newer technologies I should have, and so I'd get the first and screw the sine wave?

Again, sorry to impose, I understand if you don't have the time to hold my hand while I go shopping!! Thank you!!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FBK3QK/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=LJX3RB28SW1&coliid=I2AQZ0YB0ORSPF&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FBK3QK/ref ... RSPF&amp;psc=1)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00429N19W/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=LJX3RB28SW1&coliid=I1OJ6A2PWVQI83&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00429N19W/ref ... QI83&amp;psc=1)









wst3 @ Sat Apr 25 said:


> Since I'm not in your studio I can't answer that definitively.
> 
> When I think of line interactive I think of a UPS that uses a transformer or autoformer to connect power to the load, and then switches to battery only when the input line drops out.
> 
> ...


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## wst3 (Apr 30, 2015)

I took a quick look, and from that I can't really tell, so I will take a closer look later this evening. If I don't feel free to remind me<G>!


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## Soundhound (Apr 30, 2015)

Thank you Bill!


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## gsilbers (Sep 10, 2018)

anyone used something like this?


i recently move and there are short random power outages so i just want to have a few minutes to turn things off and on. i have 2 computers, speakers, interface, octopre, axefx2, 5 hardware synths, and all connected to a long power strip w about 25 outlets all connected to a main wall outlet. its been working fine for a lt of years. its just those pesty power outages and afraid it will screw up my focal speakers. 

So i dont think i need anythign fancy. just enough power to be able to hold power to shut things off. but i could be missing some info. 

thanks.


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## Kony (Sep 10, 2018)

I use a CyberPower UPS which has both power surge protection and battery backup to give you time to power down. You can even program it to automatically power down your computer in the event of a total power cut. I sometimes get random brownouts in my area and it has worked perfectly.


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## Matt Riley (Sep 12, 2018)

So I've been using this old Geek Squad unit: http://www.tzsupplies.com/geek-squad-uninterruptible-power-supply-i5005286/

I have a 15 outlet distro strip coming out if which I plug all of my hardware into. Is that bad?


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## pderbidge (Sep 14, 2018)

From working in the Enterprise Server and storage business for many years, backup power is one of those things that was common, obviously, and APC was usually the default choice because of their name and presence in that market. Of course I'm referring to some fairly expensive rack type back up UPS solutions that wouldn't probably be cost effective to most of us. What I've also found is that there are some great alternatives to APC that give you more bang for your buck because they are all trying to compete against that big brand name. On the other hand most of these companies focus their energy on business and enterprise so they don't have a lot of lower cost solutions for the prosumer market like APC does but still I would consider many alternatives to APC for the reason I described.

Having said that, I came across a company online that looks to have a really cool approach to surge that is different than the rest and it seems to be a very noise free solution and I would have thought by now they would have become popular in the studios for this reason but I don't seem to hear about them from anyone in the audio and production world. Still worth checking out though https://zerosurge.com/


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## KerrySmith (Sep 14, 2018)

APC rack-mount SmartUPS. Heavy as hell, but has always worked. I just need to order new batteries every 5-6 years. I have a Furman AR-15 on some of the less- crucial things (outboard gear, synths, etc)


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Sep 14, 2018)

pderbidge said:


> Having said that, I came across a company online that looks to have a really cool approach to surge that is different than the rest and it seems to be a very noise free solution and I would have thought by now they would have become popular in the studios for this reason but I don't seem to hear about them from anyone in the audio and production world. Still worth checking out though https://zerosurge.com/



After trying 3 different surge protectors, this is what I had to end up getting. Everything else made my system sound awful compared to plugging in directly to the wall. There are much more expensive options ($1000+) which I know work well but I think the ZeroSurge products are the cheapest I'd use.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 14, 2018)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> After trying 3 different surge protectors, this is what I had to end up getting. Everything else made my system sound awful compared to plugging in directly to the wall.



That's bizarre.

What do you attribute that to?


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## Gerhard Westphalen (Sep 14, 2018)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> That's bizarre.
> 
> What do you attribute that to?


I'm not sure if it has to do with the surge protection side of things or whatever filtering is built into normal power bars and the typical Furman type 1U units. I think it's something to do with limiting the current peaks. I know that impedance is also very important with these things (a lot of more expensive units have very large metal bus bars instead of wires connecting the various outlets to lower impedance). 

I avoid any sort of power filtering for this reason and use a different product which works in parallel introducing low frequency noise into the power line acting somewhat similar to dither. I should try to find a filter that's actually "transparent" because I've had some noise issues in my system recently. I tried swapping out a digital format converter with a couple of other ones which just use generic cheap power adapters and then I started getting noise on one of my speakers. The frequency of the noise would change depending on which power supply I used. I know that it's something in the power because that side of my studio is galvanically separated. It's only connected by an optical cable and power which is fed from the rest of my system.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Sep 14, 2018)

It sounds like you'd be a good candidate for a 1:1 isolation transformer in front of your suspect power supplies.

Edit: (I mean to separate the cheap supplies so they don't spew crap into your power.)


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## ceemusic (Sep 14, 2018)

My old APC Back UPS Pro still works fine with a Furman PL-PRO DMC. If power goes out it remains on w/o interruption. Then there's a 25,000w generator that starts after 1 minute if there's an outage plus surge protection in the basement tied into the mains for the entire house. Lightning rods on the roof.
No noise or problems


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## wst3 (Sep 14, 2018)

pderbidge said:


> Having said that, I came across a company online that looks to have a really cool approach to surge that is different than the rest and it seems to be a very noise free solution and I would have thought by now they would have become popular in the studios for this reason but I don't seem to hear about them from anyone in the audio and production world. Still worth checking out though https://zerosurge.com/



Nothing new here, it is an application of series mode suppression, introduced by SurgeX many years ago. The patent ran out a recently and Middle Atlantic has adopted the approach as well.

Anyone asks I tell them that series mode suppression, from Middle Atlantic, SurgeX or anyone else is the only way to go. Both SurgeX and Middle Atlantic have excellent white papers on the topic on their sites.


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