# My needs are modest. Wait for AMD Ryzen Threadripper 5000?



## Tim_Wells (Jun 7, 2021)

My old 2012 PC is on it's last legs and I need to look at building something new. But I _could_ wait a little while longer.

I'm trying to determine if it makes any sense to wait for the next-gen of Threadrippers (5000) to come out... or that's just overkill for me.

My needs are modest relative to many here. I'm not running huge orchestral templates. I'm sure I could get by with 64 or 128 GB or ram.

I appreciate any feedback from the knowledgeable folks here.


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## Technostica (Jun 7, 2021)

Based on what you have stated I'd say no.


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## easyrider (Jun 7, 2021)

5900x or 5800x


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 7, 2021)

Technostica said:


> Based on what you have stated I'd say no.


Thanks! That's my suspicion, as well. 

Beyond good performance, my priorities are a stable, relatively cool and quiet machine.

Right now I'm looking at the Ryzen 5 5800x or 5900x. Which performance-wise are so far beyond my i7-2600k (which has been a great chip, by-the-way).


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 7, 2021)

easyrider said:


> 5900x or 5800x


Funny... you took the words right out of my mouth. Not fully understanding the technology, I just wanted to be sure there wasn't some breakthrough that might benefit a user like me.


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## Alex Sopala (Jun 7, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> Funny... you took the words right out of my mouth. Not fully understanding the technology, I just wanted to be sure there wasn't some breakthrough that might benefit a user like me.


That WAS the breakthrough, honestly. Issue before was core-to-core latency wasn't great on those chips (despite everything else being amazing) until Zen 3. Now it's more of a no-brainer.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 7, 2021)

Alex Sopala said:


> That WAS the breakthrough, honestly. Issue before was core-to-core latency wasn't great on those chips (despite everything else being amazing) until Zen 3. Now it's more of a no-brainer.


Good to know. Thanks!


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## d.healey (Jun 7, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> Beyond good performance, my priorities are a stable, relatively cool and quiet machine.


Define cool and quiet. Quietness is proportional to the heat output as it's the fans that make the noise and heat output is proportional to the CPU performance.

My 5900x is not cool by my standards but it is quiet (it's silent most of the time as I've set the fans not to run until a certain threshold is reached and I have a humongous heatsink). The compromise is that I had to nerf it via power limiting so it's not at peak performance.

So you have one of those fun triangles: performance x noise x coolness.


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## Technostica (Jun 7, 2021)

d.healey said:


> Define cool and quiet. Quietness is proportional to the heat output as it's the fans that make the noise and heat output is proportional to the CPU performance.
> 
> My 5900x is not cool by my standards but it is quiet (it's silent most of the time as I've set the fans not to run until a certain threshold is reached and I have a humongous heatsink). The compromise is that I had to nerf it via power limiting so it's not at peak performance.
> 
> So you have one of those fun triangles: performance x noise x coolness.


Thermal density can also be an issue with noise.
As CPUs use smaller fabrication nodes the thermal density increases.
The 5800X seems to run hotter than the 5900X which is not a surprise as all the cores are on one chiplet rather than two.
So I'd consider the jump to the 5900X, especially if you are going to also load the cores heavily with video work and your work environment has a high ambient temperature.
The Ryzen 9 chips more than likely use the best chiplets which might well also help their thermal profile.
I haven't looked into this much but I have still across across a lot of references to the 5800X being a hot chip, in more ways than one.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 7, 2021)

d.healey said:


> Define cool and quiet. Quietness is proportional to the heat output as it's the fans that make the noise and heat output is proportional to the CPU performance.
> 
> My 5900x is not cool by my standards but it is quiet (it's silent most of the time as I've set the fans not to run until a certain threshold is reached and I have a humongous heatsink). The compromise is that I had to nerf it via power limiting so it's not at peak performance.
> 
> So you have one of those fun triangles: performance x noise x coolness.


Quiet is as you describe; basically silent most of the time. I'll occasionally run a condenser mic several feet away. The PC is under a desk. I plan to get a decent silent PC case.

I need it to stay cool enough without extraordinary measures, like water cooling or some monster CPU cooler. I just want to use some standard (quiet) CPU fan. 

I'm not doing video editing or gaming. I will probably get a very basic, fanless graphics card.



Technostica said:


> Thermal density can also an issue with noise.
> As CPUs use smaller fabrication nodes the thermal density increases.
> The 5800X seems to run hotter than the 5900X which is not a surprise as all the cores are on one chiplet rather than two.
> So I'd consider the jump to the 5900X, especially if you are going to also load the cores heavily with video work and your work environment has a high ambient temperature.


I didn't know this. I was leaning towards the 5800x, since it's about $200 cheaper. How's the 5600x temperature-wise?

May have to do some more research on the temperature of these Ryzen chips.


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## d.healey (Jun 7, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> How's the 5600x temperature-wise?


That depends on your cooler and the amount of noise you're willing to put up with. I want silence so I have a massive cooler. My system runs at 55C most of the time - but it is inside a cupboard. It would run hotter but I've set it to thermal throttle at 50C and I've limited the power to keep it quiet - this of course is what nerfs the performance. And 55C to me is hot. I prefer a system that runs around 20-30C.

Oh and make sure you get a silent PSU. I got a 450W Silverstone but if you need more power go with a Seasonic one, more expensive but you get a 10 year guarentee and they are super reliable.

None of the good AMD CPUs have built in graphics, so you'll need a graphics card, finding a silent one that's good will be difficult and with the current market you'll be paying a higher price than usual. In my system I'm using a passive GPU I've had for a few years.

Here's my system on an open case:






I should also mention that depending on the motherboard you get the chipset will have a little fan on it - more noise!

My next system will be an Intel  or ARM or Power10 (who knows)


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## Rudianos (Jun 7, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> My old 2012 PC is on it's last legs and I need to look at building something new. But I _could_ wait a little while longer.
> 
> I'm trying to determine if it makes any sense to wait for the next-gen of Threadrippers (5000) to come out... or that's just overkill for me.
> 
> ...


Just built a 5800X with 128 GB memory and M2 for my sample libraries. Its overkill and opens the largest orchestras in split seconds with Virus scanning turned off. Feel like it has future proofing. The 5950X is another upgrade worth adding if you have the $. Id avoid the 5600 and 5900 ... they failed cores by design. Get something solid. Threadripper is too much IMO. No temp issues or noise issues overclocked to 4.4 GHZ. Easy OC on Asus Dark Hero.


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## d.healey (Jun 7, 2021)

Rudianos said:


> No temp issues or noise issues


What is the temp at idle? What is the fan configuration?


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## Technostica (Jun 7, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> I didn't know this. I was leaning towards the 5800x, since it's about $200 cheaper. How's the 5600x temperature-wise?
> May have to do some more research on the temperature of these Ryzen chips.


The 5600X only has 6 Cores so has a lower TDP (65W v 105W) so it as an easier chip to cool.



Rudianos said:


> I'd avoid the 5600 and 5900 ... they failed cores by design. Get something solid.


That's one way of looking at it! 
They all work as intended, so the only issue being focussed on in this part of the thread is noise.
The 5800X is the most thermally dense chip which explains the higher temps.
The 5900X and 5950X are a lot more power efficient than the 5800X under high loads, plus the temperature will be lower due to the lower power density.

The 5900/5950 chips have their cores split over 2 chiplets whereas the 5600/5800 use the one chiplet.
The 5950X is amazingly power efficient as it uses the best chiplets.
They test each chiplet and 'bin' them for features before they package them as a CPU.
The top bin chips are needed to get 16 cores with a 105W TDP.
For the 5800X it's easy as they only need one chiplet and 8 cores for the same TDP.
I suspect that the 5800X use lower binned chiplets than the 5900X.



d.healey said:


> That depends on your cooler and the amount of noise you're willing to put up with. I want silence so I have a massive cooler. My system runs at 55C most of the time - but it is inside a cupboard. It would run hotter but I've set it to thermal throttle at 50C and I've limited the power to keep it quiet - this of course is what nerfs the performance. And 55C to me is hot. I prefer a system that runs around 20-30C.


50-55C at full load seems very low/conservative, so at what CPU loads are you getting those temps?
My CPU will hit ~70C under a 100% constant and extended load when I create an archive file.
But, that pushes the CPU in a way that a DAW might never do as the load tends to be more sporadic and lower.
So when you see reviews that give data for watts, temps etc, keep in mind that a DAW won't be pushing the CPU as hard as in the reviews so will be easier to cool.

The Ryzen 5000 series are rated up to 90C I think, so having it run in the mid 70s is fine.
It is a matter of personal taste also as some people don't like big numbers when talking about temps.

If I was building a Ryzen system today, I would go for a 5600X.
If I felt that wasn't enough, I would go for a 5900X as the 5800X isn't a big enough jump in performance for me and it has cooling issues.
At least in my country, the difference in price is relatively small (~£110 inc tax) versus the performance and cooling gains of the 5900X.


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## Technostica (Jun 7, 2021)

d.healey said:


> Oh and make sure you get a silent PSU. I got a 450W Silverstone but if you need more power go with a Seasonic one, more expensive but you get a 10 year guarentee and they are super reliable.


More specifically, for a PSU you are looking for one that works in fan-off mode up to a reasonably high wattage/temperature. 200 - 250W DC should be fine
If you install one of those in a case that is suitable for quiet computing, the fan will probably never spin up.
You will be looking at a Gold rated PSU at least.
The higher the rating, the more efficient it is, so it produces less heat as waste, so it is easier to cool itself silently.

You have to look at reviews as there are a lot of metrics and most manufacturers use ODMs to produce their products.
So for one range company A may use a top tier ODM design and for another they use a mediocre one.
So you have to do your research.



d.healey said:


> None of the good AMD CPUs have built in graphics, so you'll need a graphics card, finding a silent one that's good will be difficult and with the current market you'll be paying a higher price than usual. In my system I'm using a passive GPU I've had for a few years.


Fortunately, if you don't play games it is still easy to buy a fanless GPU with 3 outputs.
I picked up a new GEFORCE GT 710 recently from Amazon for ~£35.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 7, 2021)

Great info here. 

Is 3600 Mhz RAM still important for these Ryzen CPUs?


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## colony nofi (Jun 7, 2021)

Oh - and one further tit-bit of info on chips that are just coming to market.

AMD are finally putting out zen3 based CPUs with integrated graphics which look to be more than capable for DAWS! 5700G looks to be the decent CPU for DAW use. Nothing that will blow anyones socks off, but price / performance / capability of being cooled fairly quietly (5600G may also fit that bill better - I only glanced at TDP figures)
https://www.pcmag.com/news/starved-for-a-new-gpu-amd-debuts-two-ryzen-zen-3-apu-chips-with-integrated.
So unless you are running massive sessions, these two chips with 128GB ram seem to be the basis of an excellent bang for buck audio system!


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## Rudianos (Jun 7, 2021)

d.healey said:


> What is the temp at idle? What is the fan configuration?





d.healey said:


> What is the temp at idle? What is the fan configuration?


I use a Cooler Master Hyper 512. IDK when Idle - 56 is where it lands when using DAW. Room now is 80. Slightly undervolted to 1.281 and Overclocked to 4.4 - 4.8 boost.


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## Rudianos (Jun 7, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> Great info here.
> 
> Is 3600 Mhz RAM still important for these Ryzen CPUs?


No. Good 3200 sufficient.


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## Pictus (Jun 8, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> Great info here.
> 
> Is 3600 Mhz RAM still important for these Ryzen CPUs?


It is...





Ryzen Memory testing for audio, does it make an impact?







www.scanproaudio.info





If want to build a Ryzrn 5800X 
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/r77kBc

If want to build a Ryzen 5600X
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/mqnWqp

Both are silent and if do not need Thunderbolt, can change the motherboard to
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/cL...-pro-v2-atx-am4-motherboard-b550-aorus-pro-v2
Later can add a Thunderbolt card.

If you can find a Ryzen 7 5700G or Ryzen 5 5600G 




The new Noctua passive CPU cooler is almost here








Noctua NH-P1 Passive CPU Heatsink Spotted at Newegg for $100







www.anandtech.com







But the Ninja 5 is very silent



The trick to keep AMD Ryzen 5000 more silent, is to use the curve optimizer
with negative offset and zero boost override.





The Beast


All it took was weeks of staying up all night following every single dubious lead for restocks. :shocked: At the time I was actually trying to get one from Best Buy when they very briefly and unexpectedly popped up on Amazon when I was looking for something else. I've never moved so fast!




vi-control.net






BTW, do not forget the tweaks





Nvidia Driver, no latency anymore?


Hi all! We all know that AMD drivers have from far, less latency than Nvidia drivers, and for that reason we all recommand an AMD graphic card for audio working. But recently i have dealt with a new install on a PC with an Nvidia graphic card. And when i updated to the latest driver i saw an...




vi-control.net


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## tabulius (Jun 8, 2021)

Pictus said:


> The new Noctua passive CPU cooler is almost here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


!!! I've been waiting for this for a year!


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 8, 2021)

Pictus said:


> It is...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, Pictus. Your posts have always been so helpful!


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 25, 2021)

Thanks for your input, everyone. Below is my configuration. Hopefully this PC will last as long as my old i-7 2600k, which is still kickin. I might upgrade the CPU and RAM someday... or I may not.


CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6-Core 3.7 GHz Socket AM4 65W

MOTHERBOARD: GIGABYTE B550 AORUS PRO AC AM4 AMD B550 ATX Motherboard with Dual M.2, SATA 6Gb/s, USB 3.2 Gen 2, Intel 802.11ac, 2.5 GbE LAN, PCIe 4.0

RAM: Crucial Ballistix 3600 MHz DDR4 DRAM Desktop Gaming Memory Kit 64GB (32GBx2) CL16 

CASE: Fractal Design Define R5 Black Silent ATX Midtower Computer Case

POWER SUPPLY: Seasonic FOCUS GX-850, 850W 80+ Gold, Full-Modular, Fan Control in Fanless, Silent, and Cooling Mode

GRAPHICS: MSI GeForce GT 1030 2GB DDR4 PCI Express 3.0 x16 (Uses x4) Low Profile Video Card GT 1030 2GD4 LP OC (I'm not doing games of video editing)

OS DRIVE: SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS M.2 2280 1TB PCIe Gen 3.0 x4, NVMe 1.3 V-NAND 3-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V7S1T0B/AM

OS: WIN 10 PRO

I've got several SSD sample drives I'll pull out of my old PC.


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## Alex Sopala (Jun 25, 2021)

Tim_Wells said:


> Thanks for your input, everyone. Below is my configuration. Hopefully this PC will last as long as my old i-7 2600k, which is still kickin. I might upgrade the CPU and RAM someday... or I may not.
> 
> 
> CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6-Core 3.7 GHz Socket AM4 65W
> ...


That's gonna be a good machine. One thing though: if future upgradeability is the goal, considering DDR4 and the AM4 socket are basically at the end of their cycle, you won't really be able to upgrade RAM or the CPU without a new (currently unavailable because they're still being developed) motherboard. Not that that should stop you, but it's a thing to keep in mind.


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## Tim_Wells (Jun 26, 2021)

Alex Sopala said:


> That's gonna be a good machine. One thing though: if future upgradeability is the goal, considering DDR4 and the AM4 socket are basically at the end of their cycle, you won't really be able to upgrade RAM or the CPU without a new (currently unavailable because they're still being developed) motherboard. Not that that should stop you, but it's a thing to keep in mind.


Yeah. It's interesting to think about. Of course, it's always the dilemma you face with technology. But I honestly didn't realize they were moving away from the AM4 socket.

It looks like the new architecture won't be here until 2022. I imagine the early adopters will have some growing pains. Not sure if I want to be "a pioneer" - and face the slings and arrows and all that. 

But it's good to understand the environment before you make the leap. I feel certain that this PC will meet my needs for many, many years to come.


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