# OSX Yosemite



## MichaelL (Jun 5, 2014)

OK.... with fanfare and ballyhoo Apple has announced OSX Yosemite. 

Yet, instead of anticipating what wonders Apple will bestow upon us (transparency and font selection, to which I say BFD...not the drums), I dread that they will yet again F-up my work flow, my work life and everything else in the name of gadgetry. 

What would really be helpful is an app for removing all of the crap in OSX that I don't want, or use. What Apple tends to think is convenient and cool, I find useless and annoying.

I just want a computer that does what I want it to do, when I want it to, not a machine that inserts itself into my life like an obnoxious and overbearing relative. I want a reliable operating system with which I can compose and produce music, not a lifestyle.

That's my not looking forward to Yosemite rant.


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 5, 2014)

I like it. I don't think it will introduce any major overhauls that will affect the efficiency/workflow as a DAW. Of course you should probably wait until 10.10.1 or .2 before you upgrade


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## Guy Rowland (Jun 5, 2014)

Half the stuff doesn't support Mavericks yet, does it?! From the outside looking in, it looks insane to me. Some devs drop support for OSs that are more than 2 versions old, while others can't keep up with the annual changes. Say what you like about Windows, but at least their versions hang around a while.


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## gsilbers (Jun 5, 2014)

its been a while since i have the complaint that apple keeps upgrading too much and not making a more stable platform. 
those forced upgrade coming out of snow leopard and out of .me into icloud really pissed me off. i needed to buy a new phone?!!? because my iphone 3g. 

i just thought : man are those some 1st world problems :mrgreen: 


but yeah, freaking year a new upgrade and suddenly i need to renew a service, change hardware or say good by to a software until it catches up. 

funny that windows is better in this sense. too bad it sucks. .. 

windows does the geeky , tinckle too much stuff while apple does the lower comon denomitator , easy of use, dumb proof , newbie stuff. 

didnt see yosemite, just bithcing about the constant upgrade. and all so macs and iphone meet somewhere in the future in termsn of software. so OSX is getting iOSified.


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## gpax (Jun 5, 2014)

We composers/audio producers represent but a small fraction of the overall market for this OS, though the concerns expressed are certainly valid. But Apple has made it clear for two years now that it aims to continue developing and releasing annual OS updates. 

Rather than me putting energy into a conjecture lecture (ranting about something that hasn’t been released yet), my hope (and rant) is that key audio and DAW developers should already be looking at the latest Yosemite beta right now. As always, some will post incompatibility warnings right after the OS is released this Fall, acting as if it took them by surprise.

While I realize the timetable to develop accordingly for a new OS may take even longer for some between now and this Fall - assuming there are inherent issues at all - there are those developers who will have compatibility updates ready to go on the day of the new OS, nevertheless. There will always be a few who are also caught off guard by a last minute build even when they have developed accordingly, as I've heard. 

But this release is inevitable (and not mandatory for the user). That being said, maybe a better effort would be to contact audio and software developers now, and ask them what their roadmap looks like in anticipation of Yosemite this Fall. 

Greg


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## Simon Ravn (Jun 5, 2014)

I don't think OS X is being iOSified much. Much less than I had feared


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## JohnG (Jun 5, 2014)

...still...clinging...Snow...Leopard.......


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## Richard Bowling (Jun 5, 2014)

... About .... ready .... to ... go ... back ... to ... 

Snow Leopard


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## ThomasL (Jun 5, 2014)

Oh but they have something cool coming. If you are on the geeky side scroll down and check out the video "What's new in Core Audio" at this link:
https://developer.apple.com/videos/wwdc/2014/




Also, Logic Pro X has ALWAYS been in the no.1 spot in the "Top Grossing" list in Mac App Store. I think that accounts for something


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## MichaelL (Jun 5, 2014)

Richard Bowling @ Thu Jun 05 said:


> ... About .... ready .... to ... go ... back ... to ...
> 
> Snow Leopard




I'd love to go back to Snow Leopard. Regret updated to Mavericks!


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## milesito (Jun 5, 2014)

"upgrading" to Mavericks alone has created a much more unstable system for me, ,and now with the next version of OSX Yosemite coming, I don't think they'll be fixing much in Mavericks...sometimes I cannot reboot or shut down my iMAC even though I press "shut down" or reboot...and applications don't open...Upon booting up, it is way slower than the previous versions of OSX. It is actually not the best upgrade...Part of me thinks they screwed up Mavericks to make me have to upgrade to Yosemite and "buy" more...


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## MichaelL (Jun 5, 2014)

[quote="ThomasL @ 
Also, Logic Pro X has ALWAYS been in the no.1 spot in the "Top Grossing" list in Mac App Store. I think that accounts for something [/quote]


Yes...that Logic Pro X costs anywhere from 20 to 100 times more than most apps. 

Only If all apps cost $199 would that stat (top grossing) be relevant.


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## MichaelL (Jun 5, 2014)

milesito @ Thu Jun 05 said:


> "upgrading" to Mavericks alone has created a much more unstable system for me, ,and now with the next version of OSX Yosemite coming, I don't think they'll be fixing much in Mavericks...sometimes I cannot reboot or shut down my iMAC even though I press "shut down" or reboot...and applications don't open...Upon booting up, it is way slower than the previous versions of OSX. It is actually not the best upgrade...Part of me thinks they screwed up Mavericks to make me have to upgrade to Yosemite and "buy" more...




Mavericks causes my MAC to randomly shut down and reboot...."kernel panic."


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## Christof (Jun 5, 2014)

> That's my not looking forward to Yosemite rant.



Come on stop ranting about an OS that no one of us actually has tried so far, or maybe you did, but then it must have been an early beta.
I don't care about all these gadgets either (in Mavericks ) but the great thing about Apple is that you can IGNORE these features or/and even turn them off.

Maybe it's time for you to upgrade to windows?


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## Guy Rowland (Jun 6, 2014)

Christof @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> Come on stop ranting about an OS that no one of us actually has tried so far, or maybe you did, but then it must have been an early beta.
> I don't care about all these gadgets either (in Mavericks ) but the great thing about Apple is that you can IGNORE these features or/and even turn them off.
> 
> Maybe it's time for you to upgrade to windows?



Ha!

It's becoming quite a deal / consideration. My sense is that developers are using the "we'll support the current and 2 most recent OS versions" rule of thumb. Compare and contrast Mac and Windows. When Yosemite comes out, the 3rd most recent OS will be Mountain Lion, released July 2012 - 2 years ago. The same rules for Windows gives us Vista - July 2005 - 9 years ago. This obviously has massive implications for professional use.

And that's issue really. Its a mistake to just assume we're in a tiny neglected bubble in our industry. Macs have been used professionally since they were invented - graphics, CAD, video etc. Arguably the entire line of Mac Pros is to service the professional users, and we're all in the same boat.

It doesn't look as if developers are keen to suddenly start supporting many more versions of Mac OS. Either rejigging your whole system every two years (from comments here sometimes for worse performance) or upgrading to Windows (!) really are the only options going forward.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 6, 2014)

Still on SL on my ol' Mac Pro. My version of Cubase is from 2011. Bought a Mini with ML pre installed, so if I need a newer system, there it is. VEP hooks them up, works like a charm. SSD makes things faster. My system hardly ever crashes (like, not for months at a time.) i get work done. Life is good. Slight pain in the ass that I can only use K 5.3 on the Mini, but that's my only complaint, ain't no thang.


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## MichaelL (Jun 6, 2014)

[quote="Guy Rowland @ Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:56 am"
It's becoming quite a deal / consideration. My sense is that developers are using the "we'll support the current and 2 most recent OS versions" rule of thumb. Compare and contrast Mac and Windows. When Yosemite comes out, the 3rd most recent OS will be Mountain Lion, released July 2012 - 2 years ago. The same rules for Windows gives us Vista - July 2005 - 9 years ago. This obviously has massive implications for professional use.

And that's issue really. worse performance) or upgrading to Windows (!) really are the only options going forward.[/quote]


Exactly! Thankfully, VEP supports Snow Leopard! (which I have on an older MAC)


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## MichaelL (Jun 6, 2014)

NYC Composer @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> Still on SL on my ol' Mac Pro. My version of Cubase is from 2011. Bought a Mini with ML pre installed, so if I need a newer system, there it is. VEP hooks them up, works like a charm. SSD makes things faster. My system hardly ever crashes (like, not for months at a time.) i get work done. Life is good. Slight pain in the ass that I can only use K 5.3 on the Mini, but that's my only complaint, ain't no thang.




I'm looking at solutions like Larry's for my 2010 12-core. Maybe a mini, an iMac, or perhaps it is time to migrate to Windows. 

At this point, I've got enough VI's to last a while. No one is introducing anything that I really can't live without. I could just stop buying products that only support the last two OS. The real culprit there seems to be NI and Kontakt. I recently bought Mach5. We'll see what MOTU's philosophy is.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 6, 2014)

MichaelL @ Thu Jun 05 said:


> [quote="ThomasL @
> Also, Logic Pro X has ALWAYS been in the no.1 spot in the "Top Grossing" list in Mac App Store. I think that accounts for something




Yes...that Logic Pro X costs anywhere from 20 to 100 times more than most apps. 

Only If all apps cost $199 would that stat (top grossing) be relevant.[/quote]

Nonsense. All that is relevant is what Logic Pro X costs compared to Cubase, DP, PT, and Sonar.


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## MichaelL (Jun 6, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> MichaelL @ Thu Jun 05 said:
> 
> 
> > [quote="ThomasL @
> ...



Nonsense. All that is relevant is what Logic Pro X costs compared to Cubase, DP, PT, and Sonar.[/quote]


He said "no. 1 spot in the Top Grossing list in the* Mac App Store*."

Are Cubase, DP, PT and Sonar sold in the Mac App store? No. So, my point stands...that Logic is the top grossing app in the Mac App store can be accounted for by its cost relative to the other apps in the Mac App Store.

Jay....never argue with a lawyer! :lol:


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 6, 2014)

There are lawyers and there are lawyers...you sir are no David Boies  

Your point is correct but not relevant to the real issue, only to his specific comment. Rather like saying" It snows more in Boston because it is further north, than Los Angeles but not as much as the Himalayas."


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## MichaelL (Jun 6, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> There are lawyers and there are lawyers...you sir are no David Boies




The real issue, as Guy pointed out, is a great number of developers not supporting anything farther back than two OS releases, and whether or not I want to be willing participant in that game.

I'm not saying that we should all be using Snow Leopard (at least it worked). But I find annual new OS releases to be of questionable value.

BTW, in the spirit of full disclosure, I own Logic and at least one of your books! :wink:


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 6, 2014)

MichaelL @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jun 06 said:
> 
> 
> > There are lawyers and there are lawyers...you sir are no David Boies
> ...



Only one? No wonder you are so out of touch

Generally, in recent years I find that:
New OS 1.0=some stuff works, some does not, somewhat buggy.
New OS 1.1=more stuff works, some still does not, somewhat less buggy.
New OS 1.2=most stuff works, a little still does not, much less buggy.
New OS 1.3=practically all stuff works, a very little still does not, and at that point I will leave them in my rear view mirror, much, much less buggy.


Mavericks e.g. is every bit as good or better for me now than Snow Leopard (a great OS) became and better than Mountain Lion ever became. (The worst IMHO was Lion, very sluggish.)

The improvements to Core Audio (finally!) in Yosemite make it the first new OS that I am actually a little excited about and may eventually wean me from my Android phone to an iPhone, not sure about that though.


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## MichaelL (Jun 6, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> The improvements to Core Audio (finally!) in Yosemite make it the first new OS that I am actually a little excited about ....



And out our age, that's a good thing! 

But seriously, I'm less concerned about bugs in Yosemite than I am about NI saying K 5.4 doesn't support OS 10.8.


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## EastWest Lurker (Jun 6, 2014)

If you want devlopers to continue to innovate, you have to be willing to leave some dead skunks on the road. In this case they will be the older OS. People who want their workflow to be "set and forget" can do so but they will miss out n some cool things.

Crap, I probably totally reinvent my workflow every 6 months. Although it isn't always evident in my posts, I DO think it keeps this older brain a little more nimble


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## MichaelL (Jun 6, 2014)

EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> If you want devlopers to continue to innovate, you have to be willing to leave some dead skunks on the road. In this case they will be the older OS. People who want their workflow to be "set and forget" can do so but they will miss out n some cool things.
> 
> Crap, I probably totally reinvent my workflow every 6 months. Although it isn't always evident in my posts, I DO think it keeps this older brain a little more nimble




I still have Emulator4 samples loaded into Kontakt!

I just hate to abandon hardware.


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## Petronus (Jun 6, 2014)

Bluetooth over midi is coming!


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## stonzthro (Jun 6, 2014)

Been on Mavericks for some time with no issues - not sure what the hullabaloo is about, but for me it works great and I look forward to the new OS. 

Snow leopard - really? I suppose you have a copy of Retro AS sitting on some hard drive too? 

I guess as long as you remain productive it doesn't matter what you work on.


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## NYC Composer (Jun 6, 2014)

stonzthro @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> Been on Mavericks for some time with no issues - not sure what the hullabaloo is about, but for me it works great and I look forward to the new OS.
> 
> Snow leopard - really? I suppose you have a copy of Retro AS sitting on some hard drive too?
> 
> I guess as long as you remain productive it doesn't matter what you work on.



Sporting of you to allow for that possibility


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## gsilbers (Jun 6, 2014)

Petronus @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> Bluetooth over midi is coming!



yes, for 2012 computers and above which comes with LE blutooth on it. 
not sure if the older ones can be added.


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## stonzthro (Jun 6, 2014)

I'm super open-minded Larry - heck, I may even have my old Bitheadz CD-Rs lying around somewhere if you are interested!


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## NYC Composer (Jun 6, 2014)

stonzthro @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> I'm super open-minded Larry - heck, I may even have my old Bitheadz CD-Rs lying around somewhere if you are interested!



I got all modern with my huge collection of Roland CD ROMS and transferred them all to Halion and Kontakt. I still use some of the custom Roland samples I did back then too!


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## MichaelL (Jun 6, 2014)

Looks like my 2010 12-core is safe for now. http://news.softpedia.com/news/OS-X-v10 ... 4941.shtml

Too bad I can't add thunderbolt chip.


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## gpax (Jun 6, 2014)

stonzthro @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> I may even have my old Bitheadz CD-Rs lying around somewhere if you are interested!


OMG, there's a blast from the past! I am suddenly feeling old for some reason.


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## samphony (Jun 7, 2014)

MichaelL @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> milesito @ Thu Jun 05 said:
> 
> 
> > "upgrading" to Mavericks alone has created a much more unstable system for me, ,and now with the next version of OSX Yosemite coming, I don't think they'll be fixing much in Mavericks...sometimes I cannot reboot or shut down my iMAC even though I press "shut down" or reboot...and applications don't open...Upon booting up, it is way slower than the previous versions of OSX. It is actually not the best upgrade...Part of me thinks they screwed up Mavericks to make me have to upgrade to Yosemite and "buy" more...
> ...



Fresh install or migration?


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## samphony (Jun 7, 2014)

Here is one of my FRs over at logicprohelp. 
http://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewt ... 1&t=107467

Regarding Mac OS X 10.10

This release will introduce a new AVAudioUnitComponentManager API which will enable Audio Unit tagging. With user definable tags a user has the power to create own set of tags so our plugins can have multiple tags assigned to them like "scoring", "tracking", "drums", "edm" and what not.

Also new will be AVAudio foundation classes. Now it's just a matter of implementation.

When I watched "What's new in Core Audio" it seems obvious that real time performance and safety, 32bit float on iOS/OSX and low latency are a priority.


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## mmendez (Jun 7, 2014)

FWIW I've upgraded my secondary Mac Pro to OS X 10.10 and Logic Pro X 10.0.7 and Kontakt 5.3.1 work flawlessly. 

I'm not crazy enough to upgrade my main desktop yet but it seems that upgrading from Mavericks to Yosemite is going to be way smoother than ML to Mavericks was.

Miguel


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## gpax (Jun 7, 2014)

mmendez @ Sat Jun 07 said:


> FWIW I've upgraded my secondary Mac Pro to OS X 10.10 and Logic Pro X 10.0.7 and Kontakt 5.3.1 work flawlessly.
> 
> I'm not crazy enough to upgrade my main desktop yet but it seems that upgrading from Mavericks to Yosemite is going to be way smoother than ML to Mavericks was.
> 
> Miguel


FWIW? Actually, it's worth a lot to me! Can you say more? What experiences have you observed with the Mavericks, Logic Pro X, and Kontakt 5.3.1 combo, that you now say is more stable running under the Yosemite beta? How many instances, workflow, etc.? Thanks Miguel for posting your findings so far. Much appreciated.


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## snattack (Jun 8, 2014)

MichaelL @ Fri Jun 06 said:


> EastWest Lurker @ Fri Jun 06 said:
> 
> 
> > The improvements to Core Audio (finally!) in Yosemite make it the first new OS that I am actually a little excited about ....
> ...



Is this true or is it only speculations?


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## Guy Rowland (Jun 8, 2014)

snattack @ Sun Jun 08 said:


> *But seriously, I'm less concerned about bugs in Yosemite than I am about NI saying K 5.4 doesn't support OS 10.8.*
> 
> Is this true or is it only speculations?



Pretty sure its speculation based on past performance - NI seem to be a company that support for no more than the previous 2 versions. I don't know about specific versions and timescales, but it seems highly likely to me that by the end of the year 10.7 would be dropped. 10.8 dropped next year presumably.

I guess every Mac owner has to make their peace and their own solutions with all this. Jay rejigs everything every 6 months anyway, Larry runs legacy systems that work and doesn't touch. Though I suspect the howls of protest will continue here every time a version is dropped by significant developers (ie every year), it really shouldn't come as a surprise any more. Its the world of Mac.


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## mmendez (Jun 8, 2014)

Let me elaborate a bit. What I mean is that I haven't seen any regressions when upgrading from Mavericks to Yosemite, as opposed to going to Mavericks which caused severe issues with Kontakt.

Kontakt 5.3 was unusable on Mavericks crashing consistently. The 5.3.1 upgrade fixed that for me. That means that I currently have no issues at all with my main DAW running Mavericks. That includes Sibelius 7.5, Logic Pro X 10.0.7, Kontakt 5.3.1, Play 4.1.8 and libraries from EW, Orchestral Tools, Spitfire, SoundIron and NI.

For those of you that have issues with Mavericks and Kontakt 5.3.1 I don't think, based on what I've seen so far, that they will be resolved by simply upgrading to Yosemite.

If there's anything you want me to test I'll be happy to help. I don't have VE Pro but I have an e-licencer and could request a demo license for testing.

My test mac has a 2x2.26GHz cpu, 24GiB RAM, 240G SSD for samples and a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 USB interface.

Miguel


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## gpax (Jun 8, 2014)

mmendez @ Sun Jun 08 said:


> Let me elaborate a bit. What I mean is that I haven't seen any regressions when upgrading from Mavericks to Yosemite, as opposed to going to Mavericks which caused severe issues with Kontakt.


I didn't mean to imply that a Mac OS would fix any Kontakt 5.3.1 woes either. But at least you've confirmed that what is "broke" for me now may not become worse, lol. I guess that's progress. 

The real good news you provide is that the OS transition itself is fairly benign.


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## gpax (Jun 8, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Sun Jun 08 said:


> I guess every Mac owner has to make their peace and their own solutions with all this. Jay rejigs everything every 6 months anyway, Larry runs legacy systems that work and doesn't touch. Though I suspect the howls of protest will continue here every time a version is dropped by significant developers (ie every year), it really shouldn't come as a surprise any more. Its the world of Mac.


Guy, 

I’m usually a big fan of your perspectives, but am having a hard time understanding your investment in this thread. It seems to me you are one doing some of the so-called howling. 

Nevertheless, you make valid points about stability with respect to longevity of an OS. I would argue, also, that developers themselves - many for understandable reasons - pay deferences to an OS which is then passed on to the users. This juxtaposition to any OS release also informs both perception and reality about the stability of their respective tools that we each must weigh against our workflow. 

I may love my Mac and even succumb to the temptation of the latest OS, for example, but if my preferred sample technology developer is not onboard with that love affair, I have a problem. 

I cannot comment on Windows, as I’ve only used Macs since 1992, but nether will I speculate about the upcoming Mac OS, other than relay what the beta testers are now saying. Apart from some of the innovations in Audio and MIDI development, there are early indications these subsequent OS updates will be far less intrusive. Speaking of my own experience with Mavericks (once some of the dust settled), I am encouraged with a return to stability that, for me, mirrors that golden era of Snow Leopard others point to. 

But I would not wish you ill of your system or the stability you tout, particularly as it allows you to continue to impart here some of your own composing techniques which I have come to appreciate.


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## chimuelo (Jun 9, 2014)

I'm sure it works great as the link below shows them using Windows to put together a bunch of Mac Pros.

https://twitter.com/tim_cook/statuses/4 ... 7335743489


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## dinerdog (Jun 9, 2014)

fwiw - I've been using Mavericks, LogicX 10.0.7, Kontakt 5.3.1 without a single blip.

This on an aging MacPro (early 2008), which I just read will be the oldest MacPro that will be allowed to upgrade to Yosemite.


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## ThomasL (Jun 9, 2014)

dinerdog @ 2014-06-09 said:


> fwiw - I've been using Mavericks, LogicX 10.0.7, Kontakt 5.3.1 without a single blip.
> 
> This on an aging MacPro (early 2008), which I just read will be the oldest MacPro that will be allowed to upgrade to Yosemite.


+1


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## Giant_Shadow (Jun 9, 2014)

+2, Insert VEP5 and 2 Mac Mini slaves in the equation.



ThomasL @ Mon Jun 09 said:


> dinerdog @ 2014-06-09 said:
> 
> 
> > fwiw - I've been using Mavericks, LogicX 10.0.7, Kontakt 5.3.1 without a single blip.
> ...


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## seclusion (Jun 9, 2014)

Did a super duper back up of the OS drive and updated to Yosemite.
No issues.
Performs as did Mavericks.

Incidentally, a buddy wanted to up date and was asking how is Yosemite.
He said Yose Mite.
I'm like WTF.
He's saying u are always updating how is the new Mac beta.

So say it like me, Yo Sem a tee.
Geez man.
FYI we're Canuks, so I guess.
~o) 

Cheers


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## GP_Hawk (Jun 10, 2014)

seclusion @ Mon Jun 09 said:


> Did a super duper back up of the OS drive and updated to Yosemite.
> No issues.
> Performs as did Mavericks.
> 
> ...


lol :mrgreen:


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