# Where do you get your hi-res audio reference track downloads from?



## Mornats (Mar 14, 2018)

When I'm mixing/mastering one of my tracks I'll typically find a track on Spotify that I can use as a reference track for mixing or mastering. I use Ozone and like to load a track into that to use their reference tools. Obviously I can't do this with Spotify so I've been buying CDs to rip as WAV or FLAC files to do this.

It's a bit of a pain to have to go hunting round shops for a CD, particularly if it's not a mainstream album. There's more choice online but I'd be quite happy buying a single song for referencing purposes. I'm struggling a bit to find out where I can buy songs or albums in WAV or FLAC format online. Any suggestions?


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## Henu (Mar 15, 2018)

To be honest, 95% of my mix references are just Mp3 (192kbps) rips from my CD's or if I don't have the stuff needed, I leech the best quality version of the track from Youtube and import it as a track. For mastering I usually don't do much referencing except for the low end and loudness if needed.

The refence is supposed to be _reference_, and as an audio peep you're technically supposed to use it as a _guideline_ instead of strict cloning. Besides, unless you have exactly the same source material on separate tracks you can never clone the sound 100% anyway....and why would anyone want that in any case unless you work doing the next Guitar Hero game tracks?

When I started mixing more professionally I was obsessed cloning different sounds and mixes at the start (and to extent, still am, haha!), and spent considerable amount of time doing different versions from the same source material. And I always wondered why the professional mixing engineers I worked as a client with were always just checking out quickly the references, asking some questions and then basically just nudged the sound to the direction I wanted with some magic. The more I did mixing I realized that they took the most important and dominant characteristics of that sound and implemented it to their own mix, making the result really shine.

I think the strict reference material cloning is very useful at start of your path, but the more you do mixing, the more you want and need to rely on your own ears and your ability to pick up the characteristics that define the sound. Too often we are e.g. polishing the strings section EQ to sound exactly like Goldsmith's Mummy, while we forget to notice that our brass sounds like an Oberheim synth and our percussion is drowned on dense reverb and is 10 dB too loud. Been there, done that. The day I started to concentrate on the bigger picture was the day my mixes suddenly got way better.

My point in all this? 192 kbps Mp3 is enough.


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## Beat Kaufmann (Mar 15, 2018)

http://www.hdtracks.com/


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## Mornats (Mar 15, 2018)

Wise words! Thanks for the advice, I think I was veering down the path of being over clinical in my use of reference tracks.

It was an Olafur Arnalds album I was looking for and the usual suspects didn't have it. However Olafur had flac downloads on his bandcamp page.


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## SillyMidOn (Mar 15, 2018)

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/shop


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## lr11here (Mar 15, 2018)

Henu said:


> My point in all this? 192 kbps Mp3 is enough.



And I think it's possible to buy and download MP3 via Amazon for those who don't have CDs and want to reference to the big composers or anyone else.


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## Mornats (Mar 15, 2018)

Yeah, I'm all good on the MP3 sites so no problem there. I did try HD Tracks but found their selection limited and expensive (e.g. http://www.hdtracks.co.uk/kiasmos-thrown?___store=uk&nosto=nosto-page-search1 - £12.50 for two tracks and two remixes of those tracks).

Qobuz looks much better though so thanks for that one. I think between Qobuz and Bandcamp I should be sorted for hi-res (which is useful for just general listening) and it's good to know MP3 is good enough for mixing - at least at my level.


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## cartersandersmusic (Jan 26, 2020)

Mornats said:


> Yeah, I'm all good on the MP3 sites so no problem there. I did try HD Tracks but found their selection limited and expensive (e.g. http://www.hdtracks.co.uk/kiasmos-thrown?___store=uk&nosto=nosto-page-search1 - £12.50 for two tracks and two remixes of those tracks).
> 
> Qobuz looks much better though so thanks for that one. I think between Qobuz and Bandcamp I should be sorted for hi-res (which is useful for just general listening) and it's good to know MP3 is good enough for mixing - at least at my level.



While I agree no one should should try to clone their reference tracks, you should NOT use mp3s and other lossy codecs as references. It's amazing that we're able to strip away 90% of a track's data and still have a good result, but there are serious artefacts of this process if you listen critically. First off, mp3s CUT OFF EVERYTHING ABOVE 16kHz. This typically narrows the stereo image and takes the high-end sheen/air off of a track. Just because you don't want to clone a reference track doesn't mean you should compromise it's quality. Or else your track will sound more like a lossy mp3, and then even WORSE when it is turned into an mp3 itself.

Watch Jonathan Wyner's video on references to learn more on this!:


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## JamieLang (Jan 26, 2020)

From my music listening collection. 30 years of CDs and vinyl, smatterings of SACD and DVD-Audio...

Qobuz is the only place I"m aware of that you can downalod CD quality tracks. HDTracks, AcousticSounds are all north of that--which are the two I buy from as a listener. Qobuz is cheaper for HD, but JUST became available. I may switch, as I have issues with the fact that I paid an average of $11 for CDs for 20+ years...$8 for records before...but, somehow their no physical medium, no distribution, no inventory to hold and pay taxes on, no retail labor cost me $18 or $25 if the artist used 192kz? That's weird AF. I realize that non music fans went to mall shops and paid $18 per CD...but, that isn't "the market price" and never was.


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## purple (Jan 26, 2020)

Youtube.com


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## Mornats (Jan 27, 2020)

purple said:


> Youtube.com


You can't load YouTube into Ozone though...


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## purple (Jan 27, 2020)

Mornats said:


> You can't load YouTube into Ozone though...


You can just download the audio as an mp3 or whatever you want from a multitude of websites. Some work better than others and some get shut down so the best bet is to just google "download youtube" or "youtube to mp3"


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## JamieLang (Jan 27, 2020)

Eew...transcoding audio as reference. Youse guys should go into masterin', yo.


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## Mornats (Jan 27, 2020)

I'd much rather use a high resolution source such as a CD or hi-res audio file after reading more on here.


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## Henu (Jan 28, 2020)

JamieLang said:


> Eew...transcoding audio as reference. Youse guys should go into masterin', yo.



Don't really know how much you've done mastering or been in mastering sessions, but I've yet to encounter a professional mastering engineer who wouldn't use an Mp3 for checking out how the band wants their album to sound and translate like. 

You're not supposed to mix or master _INTO_ the reference but just a glimpse of it will reveal you many of the overall characteristics the client is hunting for.


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