# Cubase vs Logic Pro X



## jimjazzuk

Hi everyone,

I'm sure this has been asked many times before on here, but I just wanted to know what the latest thinking was. Between Cubase and Logic Pro X, which would be best for me?

I'm getting into scoring for film/TV/library, so will be mostly using the DAW with Kontakt to play software instruments, with occasional live overdubs of real instruments.

I am on a Mac with a good spec. At present I am a teacher, so I can purchase Logic (+ Final cut Pro X) for £199! I can get a reasonable discount on Cubase too.

Thanks,
J


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## AlexRuger

You're right, this has been asked a million times. I'd suggest searching for some threads about it and making up your mind based on that. We don't need another thread like this.


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## PaulBrimstone

Hi Jim, the “latest thinking” hasn't really changed much for a while. So as Alex suggests, do a search here and you'll find all you will need. Good luck.
PS: same deal with “best string library” and “best piano.”


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## Tfis

Logic


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## LFO

Actually, I think the myriad of threads on this are all pointless. Both are capable DAWs. What is important is which one provides a workflow that works best with your way of thinking. That is the one you should go with. As an example, MOTU Digital Performer is a powerful DAW, but its workflow does not match my way of thinking in any way so I use Cubase which does.

Kevin


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## Vik

Just to get you started: here are some existing threads that could be interesting for you. But note that Logic 10.4 have some improvements related to what is being discussed in some of the pre-10.4 threads, like eg Apple's first version of "expression maps", a consolidation of MIDI Draw (Hyper Draw) and Region Automation, Smart Tempo, automation improvements, some new key commands and more. 

https://vi-control.net/community/th...d-cubase-for-use-with-sample-libraries.61884/
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/logic-pro-x-vs-cubase-9.62288/
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/top-9-problems-with-cubase-9-from-a-logic-x-user.63728/
https://vi-control.net/community/th...switchers-any-issues-share-experiences.59354/
https://vi-control.net/community/th...re-fluid-natural-intuitive-a-la-cubase.49510/
https://vi-control.net/community/th...r-logic-and-work-with-sample-libraries.52493/
https://vi-control.net/community/th...stions-5-last-minute-suggestions-added.52022/


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## Jimmy Hellfire

I use Cubase, therefore you should use Cubase.
Also, Apple is evil and for hipsters.

These arguments are based on scientific and empirical research.


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## dcoscina

jimjazzuk said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm sure this has been asked many times before on here, but I just wanted to know what the latest thinking was. Between Cubase and Logic Pro X, which would be best for me?
> 
> I'm getting into scoring for film/TV/library, so will be mostly using the DAW with Kontakt to play software instruments, with occasional live overdubs of real instruments.
> 
> I am on a Mac with a good spec. At present I am a teacher, so I can purchase Logic (+ Final cut Pro X) for £199! I can get a reasonable discount on Cubase too.
> 
> Thanks,
> J


I use Cubase Pro for most non media Score related stuff. It’s workflow is terrific. For media relate or scoring I use DP9 because it works much better with video on my system, an older MP 3,1 , 8 core with 32gb ram. Logic X however works exceedingly well as far as CPU with my newer MB Air i7 and Apple has been agressively providing quality updates for the past couple years. In my experience, I love Cubase 9 th most for non scoring work, but I generally use DP or Logic for media work since the video part of the program seems better integrated. My 2 cents


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## gsilbers

jimjazzuk said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm sure this has been asked many times before on here, but I just wanted to know what the latest thinking was. Between Cubase and Logic Pro X, which would be best for me?
> 
> I'm getting into scoring for film/TV/library, so will be mostly using the DAW with Kontakt to play software instruments, with occasional live overdubs of real instruments.
> 
> I am on a Mac with a good spec. At present I am a teacher, so I can purchase Logic (+ Final cut Pro X) for £199! I can get a reasonable discount on Cubase too.
> 
> Thanks,
> J




both are excellent daws. one main difference is the mac/pc debate. Cubase can be used on both mac/pc but logic only mac. i recently did the cubase demo and found both to be almost the same once i customize cubase to how ive been using logic for the last 15 years. so imo it depends more on how you feel about apple long term plan on personal computers. they seem to be more into iphones and macs more as an afterthought or the new macs might cost way too much once you need to change macs in a few years.
i think the debate hasnt changed much on those older posts but the only thing new is that the new imac is soooooo expensive and each year its one year less with new mac pros and less and less focus on apple in personal copmuters.


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## Øivind

Check out the Cubase 30 day trial  tho I think you can't go wrong with either of the two. Never used Logic, but for the price I feel it's a no-brainer to acquire. Maybe get both?


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## Soundhound

I haven't worked with Cubase enough to really know, but I haven't gotten comfortable with it. Maybe it's just because I've worked with Logic for so long. Having said that, I found Studio One way easier to get comfortable with than Cubase, but it still has some big limitations for scoring to video.

I do really like the Cubase piano roll though, with multiple cc lanes etc. Logic's getting closer all the time though, the recent spate of updates have been adding some important tools; articulation control, mixer history, etc.





gsilbers said:


> both are excellent daws. one main difference is the mac/pc debate. Cubase can be used on both mac/pc but logic only mac. i recently did the cubase demo and found both to be almost the same once i customize cubase to how ive been using logic for the last 15 years. so imo it depends more on how you feel about apple long term plan on personal computers. they seem to be more into iphones and macs more as an afterthought or the new macs might cost way too much once you need to change macs in a few years.
> i think the debate hasnt changed much on those older posts but the only thing new is that the new imac is soooooo expensive and each year its one year less with new mac pros and less and less focus on apple in personal copmuters.


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## NoamL

Apple's long term plan for Mac is a big question mark, but at least the recent LogicX 10.4 update showed that the Logic team is still hard at work. At this point, you really can't go wrong. Keep in mind they both use MIDI, you'll almost certainly be using Kontakt (and possibly VEPro) with either one, etc. Thus the comparison is not about sound, but productivity and workflow. They both have good tools in this regard.


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## gsilbers

Soundhound said:


> I haven't worked with Cubase enough to really know, but I haven't gotten comfortable with it. Maybe it's just because I've worked with Logic for so long. Having said that, I found Studio One way easier to get comfortable with than Cubase, but it still has some big limitations for scoring to video.
> 
> I do really like the Cubase piano roll though, with multiple cc lanes etc. Logic's getting closer all the time though, the recent spate of updates have been adding some important tools; articulation control, mixer history, etc.



thats exactly what i thought when i saw the multiple cc lanes. very cool and easy. 
i had to spend a lot of time customizing cubase to make easy as i work in logic but now its set and its pretty nice. 

I just checked a few videos for studio one and it picked my interest. its even closer to logic than cubase. 
i am setting up a new room w a pc so im looking for pc daws.


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## Saxer

Logic has the possibilities for a more individual workflow. Main thing for me is the screen sets and that all editors are related to each other. I never open and close windows (except plugins). All editors I use are open all the time. After recording Midi I can see standard notation immediately beside piano roll or event list showing the same content. I often select Midi notes in the notation view and correct i.e. velocity in the event list (where the same selection is highlighted too). If I need another combination of editors I switch screen set. Or I play a sketch on piano, 'freeze' the content of it in a notation window and record single instruments while reading from screen. I also do all my notation (lead sheet, big band, orchestra) in Logic. This are things I'd miss much more in other DAWs than multiple CC lanes (though they would be nice).
If you use Logic for the 'Cubase' workflow (recording - opening piano roll - editing - closing piano roll) it's very similar to other DAWs.


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## gyprock

Saxer said:


> Logic has the possibilities for a more individual workflow. Main thing for me is the screen sets and that all editors are related to each other. I never open and close windows (except plugins). All editors I use are open all the time. After recording Midi I can see standard notation immediately beside piano roll or event list showing the same content. I often select Midi notes in the notation view and correct i.e. velocity in the event list (where the same selection is highlighted too). If I need another combination of editors I switch screen set. Or I play a sketch on piano, 'freeze' the content of it in a notation window and record single instruments while reading from screen. I also do all my notation (lead sheet, big band, orchestra) in Logic. This are things I'd miss much more in other DAWs than multiple CC lanes (though they would be nice).
> If you use Logic for the 'Cubase' workflow (recording - opening piano roll - editing - closing piano roll) it's very similar to other DAWs.


I’m a Cubase PC user and now have access to an iMac on which I have loaded Cubase Pro 9.5. I’ve always wondered specifically about the Logic score editing capability in real time because I prefer to edit with notation but never got to grips with Cubase’s score edit window which appears to be more suited for printing basic scores after the composing is finished.

Saxer, your comments suggest that Logic is better suited for composers that prefer to edit in notation and midi simultaneously? This could be a way of differentiating between Logic and Cubase rather than asking which is better. I’m more of a jazz guy that is most comfortable reading but still wants to use sample libraries for composing and playback. I also use Sibelius and Dorico and these are fine but if I quickly want to load some Kontakt patches, record the midi and then edit primarily in notation, it seems to me that Logic, with its screen sets, might be better suited to this.


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## Saxer

gyprock said:


> Saxer, your comments suggest that Logic is better suited for composers that prefer to edit in notation and midi simultaneously?


That's the way I use it mostly and that's what I'm missing when trying other DAWs.


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## garyhiebner

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> I use Cubase, therefore you should use Cubase.
> Also, Apple is evil and for hipsters.
> 
> These arguments are based on scientific and empirical research.



Haha! Apple for Hipsters! So true. Apple used to be such an OS designed for pro creatives. Now....not so much. I still love Logic OS. I remember Apple doing monthly articles on pro users. I don't see that anymore :(


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## KV626

garyhiebner said:


> Haha! Apple for Hipsters! So true. Apple used to be such an OS designed for pro creatives. Now....not so much. I still love Logic OS. I remember Apple doing monthly articles on pro users. I don't see that anymore :(



Logic OS?

The iMac Pro, LPX, FCPX clearly show that Apple hasn't forgotten the (or _their_) pro market. This year we we should also hear/see news about the upcoming Mac Pro. It IS happening, and it may surprise the most skeptics.

Times have changed, that's all.


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## Vik

KV626 said:


> Times have changed


They have. And it’s longer between major updates.


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## Silence-is-Golden

One of the major differences between these 2 daws is also that Logic will not be possible for you if you plan to have more then 250( approximately?someone will kown exaclty) tracks.
Cubase you can use in the many hundreds if not more..... ( JXL uses around 3000 if I remember correctly)

If you know whether you like working with all artics on seperate tracks then logic will limit you.

But all in all I think that for any Daw, once you get used to its design/workflow/ limits and possibilities you will be content with it.
Thus as an old version cubase user ( on atari) and later switched to Protools, and now many years Logic, it is clear that you can learn to work with all of them and get the results you need.
Off course the specifics of each will start to become clearer after some experience.

And off course, Logic is only on Mac. None of us will see the day that Logic will be supported on windows


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## garyhiebner

KV626 said:


> Logic OS?



Whoops, typo, was meant to say Apple OS


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## kimarnesen

I use Logic Pro X because it's what I'm most used to. I tried Cubase and loved how well it works with having hundreds of tracks. However, my iMac didn't love it that much, and I have heard from others and tests that Cubase on iMac does not work as well as on PC. So I chose to just use Logic, and while I really hate the track limitations it's at least much more stable and processor efficient than Cubase.

You CAN have hundreds of tracks in Logic too, with the multi-timbral option, but you can't mix them individually, so you will have to do eq and stuff for each instrument in VEP or similar. So with a big template with more than 255 instrument tracks you are kind of limited to just do mixing on the stems and master.

I've found it more useful to have a few smaller templates anyway, which are genre based. One for a standard symphony orchestra + choirs, one for hybrid/epic music, one for minimalistic neoclassical music, one for ethnic/medieval. I don't think I will ever have a project with Native Instruments Una Corda and a sackbut, so they don't need to be in the same template 

In this way, the track limit is not a big problem.


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## WindcryMusic

I've used Logic for a while now; it's far from perfect, but is still the best DAW I've encountered for orchestral and cinematic types of work (Sonar and Ableton are the others I've used). I would have at least been inclined to consider Cubase as the most worthy alternative ... but for that pesky eLicensor requirement. I have a major problem with invasive copy protection schemes, so as a result I'm sorry to say that Cubase doesn't even appear on my radar. I did use Steinberg's Wavelab quite a few years back, but also gave that one up when their copy protection became too onerous. (I'm primarily mentioning this in case the OP isn't aware of the difference in copy protection of these two DAWs, since it hasn't come up in the thread.)


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## Ashermusic

The best DAW is the one you know best, period. Every single one of them has features that others would like in their DAW that are not there. Every single one of them has features that would be missed if switching to another DAW.


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## Jeremy Spencer

Silence-is-Golden said:


> One of the major differences between these 2 daws is also that Logic will not be possible for you if you plan to have more then 250( approximately?someone will kown exaclty) tracks.
> Cubase you can use in the many hundreds if not more..... ( JXL uses around 3000 if I remember correctly)



Where did you hear that? Maybe you mean AUX tracks? Many Logic users have 1000+ tracks in their templates.


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## Jeremy Spencer

IMO, an huge advantage of Logic is that there are frequent, free updates. Steinberg does a few small updates with each version, then charges you for it's incremental updates.


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## stonzthro

They all work well or they wouldn't be around - pick one and run with it.


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## Dewdman42

Wolfie2112 said:


> Where did you hear that? Maybe you mean AUX tracks? Many Logic users have 1000+ tracks in their templates.



Just to clarify...

The limitation is the number of instrument channels, LPX has 256 pre-allocated instrument channels available. Actually 255 since one is used by the metronome.

You can get more midi tracks happening by using multi-instruments and returning the audio to AUX channels, but you're also limited to 256 aux channels, so really the limit is 512 tracks which each instrument coming back to its own mixable channel... if you submix in Vepro, then you can handle more.

if for any reason you want only one track per instrument plugin (no multi's), then you are limited to 255.


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## Jeremy Spencer

Dewdman42 said:


> Just to clarify...
> 
> The limitation is the number of instrument channels, LPX has 256 pre-allocated instrument channels available. Actually 255 since one is used by the metronome.
> 
> You can get 1000+ midi tracks happening by using multi-instruments and returning the audio to AUX channels, which if you had 255 multi-instruments with, let's say 8 instruments each, you'd already be at 2048 midi tracks feeding 2048 separate instrument sounds, etc..
> 
> if for any reason you want only one track per instrument plugin (no multi's), then you are limited to 255.



Thanks, I wasn't aware of this. I did some more digging and apparently you can have up to 255 audio tracks plus 255 software instrument tracks. My big templates use VEPro (via a slave) which explains the higher counts when using multi's.

Always something to learn!


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## Dewdman42

and also limited to 256 busses, in case that matters. 256 audio track channels. 256 inst also, its just that one is typically used for the metronome.

One area where the 256 audio track limit might come into play is if you want to bounce all your midi tracks down to audio tracks before final mixdown, which a lot of people do want to do, in order to freeze everything. its a good practice, in general but i guess you'll be limited to 256 tracks for that. In actual practice that is not really a problem. Most people that want thousands of instrument tracks aren't planning to use them all at once, they just want a gi-normous template with all their possible instruments loaded up to audition and use immediately. But once they get going there will probably just be a few hundred actually being used, which would be how many you might potentially bounce down to audio tracks.


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## samphony

Still these limitations in regards to Logic Pro should be lifted by double or triple the amount that’s available now. Especially if no multi timbral plugins are involved on most tracks.


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## jonathanwright

If you want to compose professionally for film and TV, then Logic is the best. If you want to compose for TV and film professionally, then Cubase is the best.


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## Dewdman42

samphony said:


> Still these limitations in regards to Logic Pro should be lifted by double or triple the amount that’s available now. Especially if no multi timbral plugins are involved on most tracks.



I wish they would too but I think in reality most people aren’t having a problem with it. It only becomes a potential issue for people making extremely large orch templates.


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## NoamL

You can still make enormous templates with Logic. Look at John Powell's templates that he shares every year.


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## stigc56

NoamL said:


> You can still make enormous templates with Logic. Look at John Powell's templates that he shares every year.


Can you give us a link.


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## NoamL




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## stigc56

Wov!


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## Jeremy Spencer

NoamL said:


> You can still make enormous templates with Logic. Look at John Powell's templates that he shares every year.



Of course, but I'm sure he has several slaves.


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## PeterKorcek

Wolfie2112 said:


> Of course, but I'm sure he has several slaves.



(computer) slaves :-D


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## Dewdman42

He probably does but the point is LPX could handle it in terms of track counts. Having a slave in the room doesn’t change that factor at all. You have to use multi’s, whether it’s directly in lpx, or using vepro in the same box or over the wire to a slave, makes no difference in terms of what LPX can do. 

Having a slave gives you more ram and cpu to work with. 

Well actually, if you submix some sections in Vepro or just within each instrument multi, then you can get higher track counts that way..I guess LPX is probably limited to 512 total mixable instruments you can handle...that is due to 256 inst channel limitation and 256 aux channel limitation. You'd need to save some of the AUX's for various busses, so let's just say around 500 instruments all on their own mixable channel. If you want to submix in Vepro or within the multi-instrument itself, then you can quickly double or triple up that number.


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## Craig Peters

I started on Logic Pro 9 and used it to develop my recording skills. But then they stopped updating it and then came out with LPX. Around that time I was already starting to look around for other DAW's because I felt limited in what I could do with LP9. I use to record with Zack Ohren at Castle Ultimate Studio in Oakland,CA and he was a beast in Cubase. then I started seeing other guys using it and seeing all the cool editing features like slip editing, how you can group tracks, use fx channels and VCA faders on top of all the awesome MIDI functionality. 

It's true that you have to find something that works with your workflow. It's like a guitar, there isn't a single guitar that's best for every style. That said, once I found Cubase I haven't looked at any other DAW's haha.


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## TNM

Cubase..I used Logic from version 2. Almost exclusively except for a year period where I used cubase during Apple's transition to a mac only Logic.
I would honestly consider myself one of the most hard core defenders of Logic since day one, and there are things that drive me batty that I keep thinking will be fixed and never are..

Logic used to be the performance king on mac but as long as you are happy to work at 64 or even better, 128 buffer, Cubase has now matched it's performance and often exceeds it by plugin count to the value of around 10%.
So the Logic performance advantage is now moot, unless of course you want to work at 32 buffer, where Logic still trounces all other mac DAW's (and before someone jumps in and says Reaper.. no..not on mac.. Logic beats it in all dsp tests of all kinds unless I set reaper to a massive amount of look ahead which makes it effectively sluggish to respond to even a playhead position adjustment, therefore useless IMO. Basically, to match Logic's dsp results I had to set reaper to over 2 seconds anticipative processing).

Anyway, the one i dearly love is Pro tool, for ME, the workflow and gui is just like my brain is wired. But unfortunately, it is still plagued with issues IMO and is lacking a lot of must have features.. I will say though, if you don't do any midi, i still recommend PT. Of course the OP is doing a lot of midi, therefore in this context, Cubase and Logic are "better" choices.

Anyway.. Basically, i used PT on and off for 2 years as an alternative to Logic, and i WILL keep my sub up for 99 bucks a year to have studio compatibility, but I have ditched Logic as my main DAW after more than *20 years* in favour of Cubase.

Since all DAWs have their pros and cons.. I can list some of why I prefer Cubase, and others can decide whether those features matter to them as much as me.

Firstly, I will get out of the way, Logic beats Cubase in five areas.. Better collection of midi plugins, 32 buffer with large number of input tracks armed,(or to even play a single heavy cpu VI like diva/codex etc)..it's plugin and synth collection (tape delay, camel audio stuff, chroma verb, retro synth, Alchemy, others), and finally, the superb tempo features in 10.4.. the audio auto quantise is absolutely stunning on acoustic instruments even, where PT fails miserably (for example), and Cubase is "not bad".

Now, for absolutely everything else, literally everything, I feel Cubase is a far superior piece of software..

Just some features that make it outstanding:
-A proper midi drum editor.. Simple as that.. Take any VI or External drum synth, name each note whatever you want, and program away with the brush..Or see drum midi you played in or imported on a proper drum grid and edit with extreme ease with the brush. There is also a midi plugin step sequencer for a more hardware like approach. I don't even know of a step sequencer for drums that just integrates with logic, other than ultrabeat, but that works only on ultrabeat, and isn't retina. It's SO hard to see and so blurry on HiRes screens.
-Vst Note Expression, the way it's meant to be.
-The info line for any clip or note selected.. it's all there in one line.. Logic you have to click and hold or open event lists
-Automation precise editing with numerical values, Logic can only numerically edit 127 steps.
-Instant audio engine response.. Logic takes 2 to 3 seconds for responding to most audio editing commands during playback
-No ghost effects/Phantom notes - Logic still has the effects buffer issue and I still start songs on bar 5, which I started to do back at version 3 as it even had the same issues with it's own effects then.
-control over GUi colour without any hacking or purchasing of external skins. You can also make your own COLOUR *palette* for clips/tracks..Logic's is fixed and they even removed a standard red of any kind in Logic X!
-Automation is in time regardless of latency in signal path. Cubase's delay compensation is still superior to Logic and audibly reacts instantly to any latency changes in plugin. 
-Truly unlimited tracks depending solely on computer power.. Logic for example has 255 instr tracks.. That really isn't enough for some film composers.
-256 hardware inputs and output vs 64 in Logic. This in itself is a massive, massive feature.
-Proper selectable midi device input for every single track.. whatever you like.. assign for example one controller to play certain tracks, another to play others, and so on. With one click on the main page. No environment needed.
-Chord track - It's actually incredibly intelligent but the real strength is that after you compose, you can have vocals and other samples follow the key of the chords.. No manual editing bit by bit or usually just some minor manual changes needed after. I don't sing, so work with vocal samples, and this is absolutely huge for me.. I just tick one box and they are in key with my song. Done. And not to forget the chord track is powerful at creating progressions as well.
-clip gain is done right there on the clip.. not in an inspector box.. Another huge difference.. Although, Pro tools is the king here.. for audio levelling.. just.. wow.. amazing. Again, clip volume changes are heard instantly.
-performance now at least equals or surpasses Logic at 128 buffers and up, usually equals it at 64, but lags at 32. Since I use a DSP solution to monitor, 128 is fine for playing Vi's and i really do get better performance than Logic
-Another huge workflow thing for me.. when you click on a Vi track, just like Logic, the track goes into "live" buffer mode.. i.e the buffer set in preferences..BUT, to take a track out of that mode in Logic, you have to literally select a different track... there is no other way.. So if you need to open a plugin GUI but are low on resources, and are in one page arrange/inspector view with Logic, you need to select the track, open the plugin GUI then select an audio or inactive track to take the VI track out of live mode. In Cubase you just press a button and can keep the correct track highlighted. Just this little thing is such a huge time saver for me.
-proper, smooth audio editor
- Selectable pre and post fader inserts PER track! You can literally drag the slider for any track to which effects you want to be pre or post fader. There is absolutely no way to do this in Logic without using an external gain staging plugin.
- Audio file to tempo preview happens 5x as fast as Logic.. as soon as you move to the next file, it's instantly audible and synced. Logic needs to buffer, buffer, buffer.. 3 seconds delay again when browsing during playback
- For me this matters, to many others it won't, but Cubase supports offline audio file transfer to and from Revoice pro.. Logic has to all be recorded in real time.. it's SO slow.. Other lovers of Revoice Pro will know what I am talking about.
- I will say, Cubase's time stretch on drums is awful and phasey, even with just 5% change. Logic has an auto slicer and is far superior and I have never had it fail, even with extreme tempo stretches. Cubase you need to literally open each individual file in the audio editor, create slice points and slice the file, then crossfade each slice. it's the only way to get decent sounding tempo change on drum loops.. So if you happen to work with rhythmic loops, Logic is superior for this, truly.
- Nothing beats Halion Sonic for an included all round rompler, however for synthesised stuff Logic has a massive edge.. Cubase in built synths don't even come close. Also, Logic's modulation and delay effects kill Cubase. If i was still using Logic, i'd sell a lot of my third party plugins, in Cubase I need them.
- If you are using a lot of UAD effects, Cubase any day.. cause you can add and remove them on the fly and the PDC updates instantly, unlike Logic which has that.. yep.. 3 second delay. And again, Cubase can play back it's automation where you actually draw it.. Logic's shifts depending on what plugin delays are in the automation signal path.. i.e it's out of time.
- Automation in Cubase is way better..just the little things like the info line when a dot is selected, for example, and in logic, there is STILL an issue where you can't stack two dots completely vertically at the same timeline point without workarounds. Cubase, you just drag the dot and it hard stops. Curves are also much easier to adjust without key commands or separate tools.
- The Control Room with it's integrated loudness metering.. it's very powerful and often overlooked.
- Cubase logical editor is more powerful than Logic's.. You can create presets to do anything, but it's a deep learning curve. There are some excellent preset macros to get you started with a lot of clever midi functions with one click.
- as good as Logic is at midi, Cubase is simply better. it's a composer's complete toolbox IMO. There is also in place editing which logic does not have in any capacity

Honestly, Cubase is simply better software. They keep on thinking of the little things to speed up workflow.. whereas Logic's basic workflow is the same as it's always been, with the same downfalls that never get attended to. it's still based on midi resolution for a lot of things, as in, 127 steps, has the same audio engine delays it's had for 20 years, the same phantom effects tails it's had for 20 years, the same environment under the hood it's had for 20 years..It's like Apple just keep adding more and more on top of something that needs fixing at it's core, and it just became too much for me and I switched. Couldn't be happier now..truly.
Just all these little things add up..BTW, I do maintain use of Alchemy very easily with the purchase of the cheap Apple mainstage app, and control it from normal midi tracks in Cubase.. 

Cubase ROCKS! Truly!


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## AlexRuger

@TNM, couldn't agree more. Sounds like we had a similar journey. I was a hardcore Logic user for _years, _know Pro Tools inside and out, have gotten very very deep into most of the major DAWs, including DP, Studio One, Reaper, Ableton, Bitwig, etc. I think I have a pretty objective view of the DAW landscape -- and overall, Cubase wins.

Cubase is not the best in some very specific, sometimes niche areas (to add to your list: DP's Chunks feature is incredible, as is Studio One's tabs; Reaper's scripting ability blows me away and is cool as all hell; etc), but overall it wins. Its workflow and MIDI features across the board are totally unmatched by anyone else. Finally its GUI is totally on par with or better than everyone else -- clean, fluid, works well with very high resolution monitors (which I prefer), "zones" makes working with a single monitor really great (which I prefer).



TNM said:


> It's like Apple just keep adding more and more on top of something that needs fixing at it's core



is exactly right. In a way, it mirrors iOS's strange decline, in that it's a fundamentally simple (in a fragile sort of way) design, and therefore can't be easily added-to without entropy fucking up everything. Cubase has sort of Android-ed over the years by basically exclusively focusing on refinement in every sense of the word. It's super cool. I love Cubase a little bit more with each release.


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## Vik

AlexRuger said:


> You're right, this has been asked a million times. I'd suggest searching for some threads about it and making up your mind based on that.


True - and also, both apps have been updated since most of the old posts were written. If this thread could serve as an overview of what most users who know or have both apps think their best features are and what they are missing, it could become quite useful.

Two of the things I miss the most in Logic (which Cubase has) are Capture Recording which works also in stop mode (because I often play in stop mode), and the ability to unload samples and sampler ram from memory (in general, and when freezing a track).


TNM said:


> -The info line for any clip or note selected.. it's all there in one line.. Logic you have to click and hold or open event lists


Nice function, but/and the so called Event Float in Logic pretty much does the same thing.

"-Automation precise editing with numerical values, Logic can only numerically edit 127 steps." True, but it interpolates between these 127 points.

"You can also make your own COLOUR *palette* for clips/tracks..Logic's is fixed and they even removed a standard red of any kind in Logic X!"
Yes, that's a major wish from many Logic users.

"Logic for example has 255 instr tracks.. That really isn't enough for some film composers."

More tracks would be a lot better when building templates. But this funciton will become a lot more useful if/when Logic can unload sample (and other) RAM from tracks/Kontakt. 



AlexRuger said:


> - as good as Logic is at midi, Cubase is simply better. it's a composer's complete toolbox IMO. There is also in place editing which logic does not have in any capacity


It is better in terms of functions, but there are many areas in Cubase which are less user friendly than Logic IMO/requires more steps to get simple things done. So I still use Logic after having bought Cubase. Don't know when/if this will change. Still - seeing how slow Logic's development is in areas that are important to me, I somehow wish I had started with Cubase earlier. Or that Apple, and not Steinberg had acquired the Sibelius team.


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## TNM

Just wanted to add Cubase's retrospective record.. In Logic the transport has to be running. In cubase i can sit there playing without any pressure, then if i happened to play something I liked, i can insert it on the timeline in one second. Logic has to be in playback mode to do that.. so why even bother, just put it in record mode to begin with lol!


@Vik, Yes, i know Logic has high internal resolution for automation and has 4096 steps or something when you hold the modifier key to vertically drag points. BUT, if you want to match two points exactly numerically, you only have 127 choices to choose from, otherwise you have to match precise zoom levels and go up and down till you "might" land on it. Sorry but Logic's inspector is OK, sure, but that info line in Cubase is brilliant the way it's integrated. Now, tell me, don't you think it's twisted than it's 2018 and logic is the only "pro" daw in existence where you can't grab a clip itself and raise and lower clip gain? I mean, come on! Of course Logic has some stuff that is better, like any DAW has it's strengths. I guess because I am using drum loops less and less and programming original drums more and more, i truly appreciate Cubase's drum grid editor.. Also, now that I mainly use external synths, it drives me crazy in logic that i can't just click on a midi track and choose the hardware input device for that track. That's just stupid.
And since automation timing is fundamentally broken in logic when one uses latent plugins, that's a serious CORE issue.. even ableton fixed that with Live.. I dare not use latent plugins in Logic as I am tired of moving around automation by hand and it not striking on the grid where I have drawn it. I don't know how it doesn't drive everyone batty, especially UAD users, where you might use 4 UAD effects on one track, and therefore automation can not be drawn on the grid and play where you drew it (in Logic). don't even get me started (lol) with the automation timing of any plugin if there happens to be a linear phase EQ in the same signal path!

I am curious what you think Logic does better or faster.. For me, there are two main things.. the way flex works on the main timeline in the main window, and the quantize in the inspector that always tells you the status of a clip's quantise. Yes, those things I do love. But it's not enough.. Apple haven't done an update for 5 months now, let's just hope they have at least got some serious fixes cooking for 10.5.


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## Vik

TNM said:


> I am curious what you think Logic does better or faster..


Quoting myself from another post (slightly modified) abut things I really like in Logic:


The Voice Separation Tool in score

The Step Input mode which allows entering notes or chord in real time + moving forwards (or adding length to the currently played note/chord) with either a Key Command ("Sustain Inserted Note") or the sustain pedal

The ability to grab a bar with the Layout tool and drag it to eg downwards to make it the first bar in the system below

The key command Automation:Cycle Through Automation Parameters (which now also works in the main window). 

The Duration Bars in score (although I wish using the Scissor tool on them would divide the note in two)

The Explode Polyphony function, which changes the look of a track in score, so each polyphonic voice gets its own system

"Trim note to remove overlaps for selected"

"Convert Sustain Pedal to Note Length"

Separate Articulation ID for each note

"Zoom to fit Selection or all Contents" is a very useful key command

"Show/Hide all plugin windows" (although it doesn't open the MIDI instrument plugin on the current track even if no plugin windows are open)

The ability to prelisten to pathces in the Library by selecting them with a click

Beat Mapping

Fix Displayed Note Positions and Durations

"Independent note"

Dedicated key commands for specific tools (but pressing them twice doesn't take you back to the previous tool)

The Note Attributes window (but it should have been an always visible area in the score Inspector, allowing for instant changing selected notes

"Remove Overlaps" (but I miss "Create Overlaps")

The different link modes (which makes Logic always display the content of your selection elsewhere)

Double clicking the MIDI In tool allows quick editing of note pitch/velocity from a MIDI keyboard (but doesn't work for chords)

Contextual menus everywhere

An very easy to use and well planned Key Command editor

Good built in help functions

Almost all actions can be performed by key commands

Logic's mixer looks better

The integrated score editor seems more advanced than the integrated one in Cubase*

*It's great that Steinberg acquired the Sibelius team, but I think it will take ages before they integrate Dorico and Cubase fully. 



I like that Apple has some kind of overall control over the user interface in Logic, resulting in fewer situations like some of the stuff I've seen in Dorico - so Steinberg obviously doesn't have that kind of control. (And, for the records, I also sometimes strongly dislike that Apple has this control, because it seems to me that the Logic team listened a lot more to their users - and not only their 'pop culture users' - earlier. 

Btw, I made the list a while ago, and haven't been updating Cubase to the latest version, so Cubase may have some of these things now. Please correct me!


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## jonathanwright

I love the features and functionality in Cubase so much, overall it's definitely just ahead of the pack in that regard.

However there are a few things that often have me reaching for Logic.

1. It crashes. Not too frequently, but enough to be frustrating. It's also hangs on quit. Just for giggles I left it quitting while I went away for the weekend, and the beachball was still running 3 days later.

2. They add some genuinely useful new features, but they tend to be not quite complete, or worse, don't work properly. It often takes a paid update (or several) just to get a feature to work as it should.

3. I know this is subjective but for me the UI is awful. It feels like a toy from the 80's, and nothing is 'fluid'. Once a few instances of Kontakt are added it starts to slow down. It's still not retina ready after almost 6 years since the displays came out. I use a magic trackpad rather than a mouse, and it's not possible to use gestures to zoom etc - something even Studio One does very well. It just feels clunky.

So overall, I probably _prefer_ Cubase, but find myself drifting further away with every Logic update.


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## lucor

I think the UI is by far the biggest issue I have with Cubase, especially how plugin windows are handled. I just want my Kontakt 5 window to open in the exact same place everytime and an option to make it switch according to the track I select. Right now windows are opening wherever they want, very often being half off the screen, and it's driving me nuts.

The other big thing are the big file sizes and long saving times with big disabled templates (although that's a problem with literally every DAW I think). I'm not sure if something like this is technically possible, but I wish something like this would exist: for every project you have a seperate file in which all the 'big' data is stored (like plugin settings, Kontakt instrument settings etc... everything that makes project file sizes so big). And then in Cubase you have a 'decouple' button (like in VEPRO), which when enabled makes it so that Cubase only saves recorded midi, volume changes, etc.. So that way you could occasionally 'recouple' to save any changes made to Kontakt instruments, but when you're only recording and composing you can stay decoupled.
I don't know if this makes any sense...


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## Alex Fraser

jonathanwright said:


> So overall, I probably _prefer_ Cubase, but find myself drifting further away with every Logic update.







Join us, Jonathan.


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## Sami

I have used both extensively and what follows is my personal opinion.

Cubase is a German luxury sedan. A brilliant, technical tool with many many possibilities.
Logic is a vintage British motorcycle. Usually perfectly functional, great for my purpose, sometimes quirky.

If I had to learn one and live with it for the rest of my life, it would be Cubase.
But I don‘t love Cubase, I love Logic, and have loved it for its imperfections for a long time. 

Ever since they implemented the articulation editor and Apple introduced the iMac Pro, I have not switched on my slave systems or used Cubase once. 

Make of it what you will, for most of us the DAW we use is a love story and not a question of specs or objectivity. That makes us artists as opposed to scientists, I guess...


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## jonathanwright

Alex Fraser said:


> Join us, Jonathan.


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## Jeremy Spencer

jonathanwright said:


> I love the features and functionality in Cubase so much, overall it's definitely just ahead of the pack in that regard.
> 
> However there are a few things that often have me reaching for Logic.
> 
> 1. It crashes. Not too frequently, but enough to be frustrating. It's also hangs on quit. Just for giggles I left it quitting while I went away for the weekend, and the beachball was still running 3 days later.
> 
> 2. They add some genuinely useful new features, but they tend to be not quite complete, or worse, don't work properly. It often takes a paid update (or several) just to get a feature to work as it should.
> 
> 3. I know this is subjective but for me the UI is awful. It feels like a toy from the 80's, and nothing is 'fluid'. Once a few instances of Kontakt are added it starts to slow down. It's still not retina ready after almost 6 years since the displays came out. I use a magic trackpad rather than a mouse, and it's not possible to use gestures to zoom etc - something even Studio One does very well. It just feels clunky.
> 
> So overall, I probably _prefer_ Cubase, but find myself drifting further away with every Logic update.



Wow! These are the same reasons I'm still reluctant to go "all in" with Cubase. I bought the 9.5 upgrade when it was on sale recently, so I'll register and get the free Cubase 10 upgrade when that happens....hopefully the retina support will be there.


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## Jeremy Spencer

AlexRuger said:


> Finally its GUI is totally on par with or better than everyone else -- clean, fluid, works well with very high resolution monitors



Except there's still no retina support


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## Brueland

Wolfie2112 said:


> Wow! These are the same reasons I'm still reluctant to go "all in" with Cubase. I bought the 9.5 upgrade when it was on sale recently, so I'll register and get the free Cubase 10 upgrade when that happens....hopefully the retina support will be there.


Still on sale until 31. aug. My hands are itching to click upgrade.


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## 5Lives

Trial of Cubase 10 is out. Sadly, Steinberg still keeps the arrow tool separate from the range tool. Every other DAW seems to have a smart multi-tool (Logic, Pro Tools, Studio One, Ableton). Why Steinberg why??? Just a small niggle but combined with other workflow decisions, makes Cubase feel rather clunky overall to me. Lot of clicks to get things done. Such a great MIDI editor though. If Studio One adds articulation maps and cleans up their UI, could be a strong contender (unless you need notation).


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## KallumS

One big thing for me is cost - I've owned both and with Cubase I had to pay a high update fee every year just to keep up to date, on top of the high cost for the DAW.

I haven't had to spend anything on updates for Logic in the 5 years that I've owned it. Plus, the DAW was pretty cheap to start off with.


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## KallumS

KallumS said:


> One big thing for me is cost - I've owned both and with Cubase I had to pay a high update fee every year just to keep up to date, on top of the high cost for the DAW.
> 
> I haven't had to spend anything on updates for Logic in the 5 years that I've owned it. Plus, the DAW was pretty cheap to start off with.



At the moment a crossgrade to Cubase 10 Pro is £145, this is frankly astonishing and makes getting Cubase Pro cheaper than buying Logic. Since making my previous post I have also learned that you can buy the .5 upgrade during a sale but hold off on activating it, then when the next major version comes around you can upgrade to it for free using the .5 update.


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## stonzthro

KallumS said:


> One big thing for me is cost - I've owned both and with Cubase I had to pay a high update fee every year just to keep up to date, on top of the high cost for the DAW.
> 
> I haven't had to spend anything on updates for Logic in the 5 years that I've owned it. Plus, the DAW was pretty cheap to start off with.


I would happily pay an upgrade fee if Apple would fix the delay compensation and automation issues...


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## mauriziodececco

I am a Cubase user since Pro24 on the atari .... 
But i am considering switching to a double DAW configuration because i am moving to a two machines configuration (Mac Pro 5.1 plus Mac Book Pro). 
The idea is to work on compositions while traveling/commuting and to gig with the Mac Pro.

In this configuration, the Cubase eLicenser dongle is a big pain in the ass; i do not think i want to work on the Paris metro with the very precious dongle popping out from my MacBook, and i would be quite stressed to bring it to a gig, for example; so, i am considering a double configuration Cubase/Logic, or may me Cubase/Live depending on how gigs come out.

One thing that i am not happy about Cubase, and that shocked me when i discovered that Logic behave similarly, is that neither of the two proper integrate with the Mac OS windows management and virtual screens (Mission Control, in Apple speak). I usually use at least 3 or 4 virtual screens with Cubase (sequencer windows, mixer windows, VIs, mixer related plugins), and there is no way to save the screen configuration and getting it back when you load the project. At least Logic is able to do a proper full screen on the Mac, without losing the space of the useless windows border. Ableton Live behave better on this, but not with the plugin windows.


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## Vik

Vik said:


> The Duration Bars in score (although I wish using the Scissor tool on them would divide the note in two)
> 
> The Explode Polyphony function, which changes the look of a track in score, so each polyphonic voice gets its own system
> 
> "Trim note to remove overlaps for selected"
> 
> "Convert Sustain Pedal to Note Length"
> 
> Separate Articulation ID for each note
> 
> "Zoom to fit Selection or all Contents" is a very useful key command


Can anyone using Logic please check if Explode Polyphony works in the current version?


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