# SAVANT Audio Labs : Quantum 2772 Evolution . True Stereo Algorithmic Reverb.



## muziksculp (Jul 12, 2022)

Introducing the *Quantum 2772 Evolution*, by SAVANT Audio Labs, a true stereo algorithmic reverb inspired by the legendary German Room Simulator and offered here for the first time as a plugin.

https://savantaudiolabs.com/product/quantum-2772-evolution/


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## muziksculp (Jul 12, 2022)

imho. this is wonderful sounding algorithmic stereo reverb. But after hearing the comparison with the Bricasti M7, I can hear how much more transparent, and clean the M7 reverb sounds compared to the Quantum 2772. I still think for the price the Quantum 2772 is a great sounding algorithmic reverb. 

I haven't tested it, and not sure how much CPU it needs.


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## Te4la (Jul 12, 2022)

It's so wide and deep, natural and clear.


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## synergy543 (Jul 12, 2022)

Wolfgang Schwarz created the original QRS in 1982. It had four digital outputs with an infinity dial and beautiful meters. It was an amazing hardware design for its time. This plugin emulation sounds quite good but its a shame that 40 years later its been whittled down to only two channels. Surround is a powerful aspect of ambient sound!


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## muziksculp (Jul 14, 2022)

Oh.. and SAVANT Audio Labs just added PayPal Payment option, which wasn't available earlier. 

Just in case you use PayPal, and want to purchase this Reverb.


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## muk (Jul 14, 2022)

First impresssions from the free trial.

The plugin:
The GUI is very basic. Some standard Juce elements still in there. It's also finicky. Nothing can be automated. You have to set everything with the mouse. The rotary sliders (does that term even exist?) are a nuisance to control and don't always respond. Switching presets does sometimes keeps the previous settings that you had on the dials. Sometimes they load properly. Saving a custom preset doesn't always save the settings on the dials.
There are a basic set of parameters to be adjusted, plus a few uncommon one. You can set the level of the direct signal, first reflections (usually set to off in all the presets. And that's the right setting for most applications. More on that below), and reverb. Then there are delay settings for all these components. Though I am not clear why you would want to delay the direct signal. There is a dial called 'bandwith', which is a low-pass filter. Next is 'density'. This sets the density of the reverb. At 80%, the tail is thick and uncontrolled. At 0%, it sounds sparse and open. Settings between 10% and 25% sound natural to me. Settings above can be useful as an effect.
There are three dials to set the RT60 for lows, mids, and highs. The mids sets the general reverb time in seconds (you can also set it to freeze, which gives an reverb that does not decay at all). Then you can adjust the decay of the lows and highs in multiplies of this. That's great to make the reverb on the high decay faster than on the mids, for instance.
Last controls are correlation, and a haas delay. Lower correlation gives a wider sound, at the cost of a less defined center image. Haas sets a delay on one of the channels in miliseconds.
Finally, there are three buttons to scale the plugin size (1x, 1.3x, 1.5x). The plugin is not freely scalable. And switching between the sizes sometimes screws up the text and dials, so you then have to reopen the plugin.
There is a grand total of 12 different presets (halls) to choose from. Plus 5 plate delays, and three bonus presets from the 1982 iteration of the hardware. These latter ones include the Taj Mahal preset that is great for very long tails. If you don't know the hardware, as an explanation, Concert Hall+A means concert hall with audience. Concert Hall -A means concert hall without audience, respectively. So not a lot of choice here. Especially not for studio reverbs. What is there is really good though.
In conclusion, the presentation of this plugin is really quite bad and buggy. Not professional at all. This might be tolerable for a free plugin, but not for a paid one. There is a severe need of updates to the plugin.
On to the good part. Which is: the sound. It does indeed sound different from other reverbs. There is very little coloration if you don't set the density too high. It's neither dark and muddy nor bright and metallic. It also attaches to the source nicely and naturally. If you always wanted a quantec style reverb, this plugin gives you this. If you don't know nor care what Quantec was, I'd say you can pass.
One comment about the early reflections part of this plugin. They do sound very, very good. You need to be careful about the positioning though. If you use an audio source that is naturally panned to the right, the early reflections will be panned to the left. The more early reflections you blend in, the more the panning of the audio shifts towards the middle. Savant Audio advises to not use early reflections at all if you use the reverb part as well, as early reflections are already part of the reverb. If you want to use the early reflection only on a source that has been recorded in situ, you can do the following: swap the audio channels of the source. In Quantum 2772, set direct signal to off, and only use the early reflections. That way, the resulting sound is placed to the same side as the source. It's a bit tedious. But as the early reflections part, to my ears, is similarly effective as the Eventide SP2016, it's worth to do so if needed.


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## muziksculp (Jul 14, 2022)

muk said:


> Savant Audio advises to not use early reflections at all if you use the reverb part as well, as early reflections are already part of the reverb.


Thanks for feedback, and this info. I wasn't aware about this important detail.


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## muk (Jul 14, 2022)

By the way, at least some of the problems I mention above seem to be system specific for me. Automation works on other systems, and the GUI seems to be reliable there too.


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## muziksculp (Jul 14, 2022)

muk said:


> By the way, at least some of the problems I mention above seem to be system specific for me. Automation works on other systems, and the GUI seems to be reliable there too.


Which DAW are you using ?


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## manuhz (Jul 14, 2022)

A very nice and rich sounding one! Thanks for sharing the info.
But for me nothing, absolutely nothing compares to Acon Verberate Inm. My Algo search is long over


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## muk (Jul 14, 2022)

muziksculp said:


> Which DAW are you using ?


Cubase 12, on a Windows 11 machine.


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## muziksculp (Jul 14, 2022)

muk said:


> Cubase 12, on a Windows 11 machine.


Maybe it's not Windows 11 ready yet ?


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## MartinH. (Jul 14, 2022)

Based on the samples this almost sounds too much like real rooms to me. That makes me think more about the room than the music, which I don't like. It just messes with the way I internally visualize the music. There may be usecases where that's a good thing, but I think I'll pass on this one.


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## muziksculp (Jul 14, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Based on the samples this almost sounds too much like real rooms to me. That makes me think more about the room than the music, which I don't like. It just messes with the way I internally visualize the music. There may be usecases where that's a good thing, but I think I'll pass on this one.


I think this depends on how it is used. I haven't installed it yet, but I don't share your opinion, you can get a room sound to be more audible than the instruments when using any algorithmic reverb if you have set it up to do that.


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## jules (Jul 15, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Based on the samples this almost sounds too much like real rooms to me.


Don't worry you can totally mess it up ! 
Seriously this reverb is a gem. First infrigment in years to my "no new reverb" rule. 
BOUGHT !


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## synergy543 (Jul 15, 2022)

The Quantum Evolution 2772 Theater preset (just as an example) works quite nicely as a front-end (sort of like a scoring stage ER) for the Lexicon Random Hall (I'm using it in series now, but parallel setup should work even better and you could spread the reverb with an imager). Together, you can get a very nice sounding hall with a sense of walls and space along with that sparkly lush hall tail. Just lower the levels of both to find a nice balance. Wolfgang Schwarz (RIP) would have hated this (along with the inexpensive software plugin copy). However, back then (1984), nobody could have afforded to try such a combination, as buying each unit was as much as a high-end luxury car (at least in some places in the world).

This combination works nicely because the early room sounds comes from the QRS (which has no pitch shift modulation) while the longer Lexicon reverb hall, with its sparkly modulation, doesn't really pitch shift as the direct sound as it is already fairly diffused at that point. So it works with percussive instruments such as a piano. As Muk pointed out, this can be used very much like the Eventide 2016 or Altiverb as a front-end for ERs.


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## José Herring (Jul 15, 2022)

Okay, I heard the first 11 seconds of the first video and that was enough to determine that this thing is probably one of the best I've heard. Jesus.


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## José Herring (Jul 15, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Based on the samples this almost sounds too much like real rooms to me. That makes me think more about the room than the music, which I don't like. It just messes with the way I internally visualize the music. There may be usecases where that's a good thing, but I think I'll pass on this one.


The demos were just done to highlight the sound of the verb. They are way over verbed for a reason. The arrangements are even designed to show off the reverb. So I would necessarily come to this conclusion.


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## MartinH. (Jul 15, 2022)

José Herring said:


> The demos were just done to highlight the sound of the verb. They are way over verbed for a reason. The arrangements are even designed to show off the reverb. So I would necessarily come to this conclusion.


I don't mind them being oververbed, but I prefered the Bricasti in the A/B comparison. And I'm by no means a Bricasti fanboy, don't own the real thing nor a plugin version of it.



José Herring said:


> Okay, I heard the first 11 seconds of the first video and that was enough to determine that this thing is probably one of the best I've heard. Jesus.


If you buy it, maybe you can make another blind shootout thread like with the strings. Everyone loves those!


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## Zoot_Rollo (Jul 17, 2022)

it does sound really nice.


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## NoamL (Jul 17, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> The Quantum Evolution 2772 Theater preset (just as an example) works quite nicely as a front-end (sort of like a scoring stage ER) for the Lexicon Random Hall (I'm using it in series now, but parallel setup should work even better and you could spread the reverb with an imager). Together, you can get a very nice sounding hall with a sense of walls and space along with that sparkly lush hall tail. Just lower the levels of both to find a nice balance. Wolfgang Schwarz (RIP) would have hated this (along with the inexpensive software plugin copy). However, back then (1984), nobody could have afforded to try such a combination, as buying each unit was as much as a high-end luxury car (at least in some places in the world).
> 
> This combination works nicely because the early room sounds comes from the QRS (which has no pitch shift modulation) while the longer Lexicon reverb hall, with its sparkly modulation, doesn't really pitch shift as the direct sound as it is already fairly diffused at that point. So it works with percussive instruments such as a piano. As Muk pointed out, this can be used very much like the Eventide 2016 or Altiverb as a front-end for ERs.


Yes, since the lack of modulation is one of the selling points, I'd love to hear a shootout between this and the SP2016 for ERs. The 'cathedral verb' application is not very useful for my work (orchestra).


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## Henu (Jul 17, 2022)

That price is ridiculously low for what you are getting. It sounds incredible! 

If I didn't have 7H and CPR Pro already, I'd prolly jump into this one, but now I am pretty sure I can convince myself that I can get everything I need from those. (And the Lexicons, Tai Chi, all Relab verbs, my IR collection...damn, I may have a problem.)


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## savantaudio (Jul 17, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> The Quantum Evolution 2772 Theater preset (just as an example) works quite nicely as a front-end (sort of like a scoring stage ER) for the Lexicon Random Hall (I'm using it in series now, but parallel setup should work even better and you could spread the reverb with an imager). Together, you can get a very nice sounding hall with a sense of walls and space along with that sparkly lush hall tail. Just lower the levels of both to find a nice balance. Wolfgang Schwarz (RIP) would have hated this (along with the inexpensive software plugin copy). However, back then (1984), nobody could have afforded to try such a combination, as buying each unit was as much as a high-end luxury car (at least in some places in the world).
> 
> This combination works nicely because the early room sounds comes from the QRS (which has no pitch shift modulation) while the longer Lexicon reverb hall, with its sparkly modulation, doesn't really pitch shift as the direct sound as it is already fairly diffused at that point. So it works with percussive instruments such as a piano. As Muk pointed out, this can be used very much like the Eventide 2016 or Altiverb as a front-end for ERs.


Savant here... I like your creative use of this synergy543. We posted a short example using a similar technique. 
In this case the top plugin is using our 1982 preset of a slightly larger hall, but set to a very short reverb time. This gives some early reflections that are a little longer in envelope and are reflected nicely off opposite walls in the stereo image. 
The bottom plugin is using settings closer to a traditional hall and is responsible for the tails. 
In the first pass of the example, you'll hear us just using the "early reflections" instance alternating dry/wet, and then in the second pass we bring in the bottom plugin for tails. 
Of course, as synergy543 mentioned, experiment with any combinations you like of your favorite verbs to build some variance.


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## axb312 (Jul 17, 2022)

savantaudio said:


> Savant here... I like your creative use of this synergy543. We posted a short example using a similar technique.
> In this case the top plugin is using our 1982 preset of a slightly larger hall, but set to a very short reverb time. This gives some early reflections that are a little longer in envelope and are reflected nicely off opposite walls in the stereo image.
> The bottom plugin is using settings closer to a traditional hall and is responsible for the tails.
> In the first pass of the example, you'll hear us just using the "early reflections" instance alternating dry/wet, and then in the second pass we bring in the bottom plugin for tails.
> Of course, as synergy543 mentioned, experiment with any combinations you like of your favorite verbs to build some variance.



When is the intro price on up to?


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## savantaudio (Jul 18, 2022)

axb312 said:


> When is the intro price on up to?


August 15th


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## tc9000 (Jul 18, 2022)

I bought this without demo-ing. The _1. Boy Soprano (Cathedral)_ audio was enough for me to buy in, but then I do have a _severe_ reverb plugin addiction.

Playing with this confirms my impressions: top freaking notch.

Even if Dan Worrall makes a _"Oh Sh1t this nulls with stock Reaper reverb" _tomorrow*, I don't care - this sounds incredible to me.

Great work!

*JKJKJKJKJKJKJKJ - that is not going to happen!


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## nordicguy (Jul 18, 2022)

Henu said:


> …
> If I didn't have 7H and CPR Pro already, I'd prolly jump into this one, but now I am pretty sure I can convince myself that I can get everything I need from those. (And the Lexicons, Tai Chi, all Relab verbs, my IR collection...damn, I may have a problem.)


You’re right, still some missing…


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## CGR (Jul 19, 2022)

Any more experience/thoughts/comparisons about this new verb?


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## José Herring (Jul 19, 2022)

savantaudio said:


> Savant here... I like your creative use of this synergy543. We posted a short example using a similar technique.
> In this case the top plugin is using our 1982 preset of a slightly larger hall, but set to a very short reverb time. This gives some early reflections that are a little longer in envelope and are reflected nicely off opposite walls in the stereo image.
> The bottom plugin is using settings closer to a traditional hall and is responsible for the tails.
> In the first pass of the example, you'll hear us just using the "early reflections" instance alternating dry/wet, and then in the second pass we bring in the bottom plugin for tails.
> Of course, as synergy543 mentioned, experiment with any combinations you like of your favorite verbs to build some variance.



Can't understand why people aren't just a bit more excited. I think it sounds fantastic. Manages to be a great sounding reverb without that cloudy build up that they all seem to have.


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## José Herring (Jul 19, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I don't mind them being oververbed, but I prefered the Bricasti in the A/B comparison. And I'm by no means a Bricasti fanboy, don't own the real thing nor a plugin version of it.
> 
> 
> If you buy it, maybe you can make another blind shootout thread like with the strings. Everyone loves those!


I will. It's vaulted to the top of my list of things to buy. Which this year has gotten embarrassingly long so don't know when but unless something better comes out, I'm getting this.


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## CGR (Jul 19, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Can't understand why people aren't just a bit more excited. I think it sounds fantastic. Manages to be a great sounding reverb with that that cloudy build up that they all seem to have.


There's a fair bit of noise about it over at Gearspace. I'm trialling the demo and comparing to Seventh Heaven, EW Spaces, Raum, and about to stack it up against Inspirata. So far it's impressive – quite unique with the depth and width it adds, whilst still sounding natural. Can get a little harsh on the top end at default settings, but there's enough control on the GUI to easily tame that


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## José Herring (Jul 19, 2022)

CGR said:


> There's a fair bit of noise about it over at Gearspace. I'm trialling the demo and comparing to Seventh Heaven, EW Spaces, Raum, and about to stack it up against Inspirata. So far it's impressive – quite unique it the natural depth and width it adds, whilst still sounding natural. Can get a little harsh on the top end at default settings, but there's enough control on the GUI to easily tame that


Do you use Raum for orchestral? I use it for pure sound design work. EW Spaces I tried to like it but it just has this nasty ringing sound to it. People love it though so I'm trying to figure out if I just have it setup wrong or something.


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## CGR (Jul 19, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Do you use Raum for orchestral? I use it for pure sound design work. EW Spaces I tried to like it but it just has this nasty ringing sound to it. People love it though so I'm trying to figure out if I just have it setup wrong or something.


Haven't used it much, and only recently tried it on some solo piano, but ended up going with Seventh Heaven. Got some great results with Raum doing some modulating delay-verb fx on a Rhodes (Sampleson Suit73-V2)


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## CGR (Jul 19, 2022)

José Herring said:


> Do you use Raum for orchestral? I use it for pure sound design work. EW Spaces I tried to like it but it just has this nasty ringing sound to it. People love it though so I'm trying to figure out if I just have it setup wrong or something.


I've moved away from using EW Spaces for larger verbs (Halls, Scoring Stages) and moved toward Seventh Heaven and Inspirata. Spaces does have some great smaller rooms I get a fair bit of use from for smaller ensemble or band arrangements.


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## CGR (Jul 19, 2022)

The shorter 'ACME Storage' impulses from Spaces are great for depth (captured in a Warehouse).


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## synergy543 (Jul 19, 2022)

I find its makes a really nice ER front-end with other reverbs. I'm currently using it with Cinematic Rooms and it adds a lot of spaciousness. Much in the same way that you'd get by adding VSL Imager Pro but without confusing the location as much.


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## CGR (Jul 19, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> I find its makes a really nice ER front-end with other reverbs. I'm currently using it with Cinematic Rooms and it adds a lot of spaciousness. Much in the same way that you'd get by adding VSL Imager Pro but without confusing the location as much.


I'm hearing that too.


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## Dorothy (Jul 20, 2022)

This plugin is amazing. I discovered it initially on gearslutz when it was announced. I have most of the big names of the market like many people do, but what I like the most with this one is: 
- The spatial immersion and the ability to create *believable space*.
- The absence of modulation with *beautiful tails*.
I created audio files with settings I'm using with the 1982 and the 2772 algorithms (wet is played 1st followed by dry).
This reverb is also beautiful on ambient stuff with long tails. Using the 2772 with main time > 4secs and it makes ordinary synth sounds gorgeous without damaging the clarity like with other plugins.
@savantaudio, I hope you will release a bigger version without cpu constraint like you teased on gearslutz. Would be an instant buy again.


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## CGR (Jul 20, 2022)

Dorothy said:


> This plugin is amazing. I discovered it initially on gearslutz when it was announced. I have most of the big names of the market like many people do, but what I like the most with this one is:
> - The spatial immersion and the ability to create *believable space*.
> - The absence of modulation with *beautiful tails*.
> I created audio files with settings I'm using with the 1982 and the 2772 algorithms (wet is played 1st followed by dry).
> ...


Thanks for posting these demos. Acoustic piano is a real test for reverb plugins, and this sounds VERY good. A real sense of space without the obvious sound+reverb character. Piano sounds like a real, close mic'd acoustic . . .?


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## Russell Anderson (Jul 21, 2022)

savantaudio said:


> August 15th


I'm watching your developments with interest. Are there any plans to add some of the 'missing' parameters to the 2772, like "size"/modality and dampening? I too have most of the big names but this reverb is pretty unique sounding, in a very good way. Like Protoverb (of course. Still different but still related, didn't know both had a relationship to the yardstick)


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## savantaudio (Jul 22, 2022)

Russell Anderson said:


> I'm watching your developments with interest. Are there any plans to add some of the 'missing' parameters to the 2772, like "size"/modality and dampening? I too have most of the big names but this reverb is pretty unique sounding, in a very good way. Like Protoverb (of course. Still different but still related, didn't know both had a relationship to the yardstick)


Hi Russell, thanks for your interest. Like the hardware, the Quantum is fixed at a room size of 10.4m3. The bonus 1982 presets include rooms of 10.5 and 10.6m3. It is possible that we will develop a new reverb in the future that has a similar design concept to the hardware but with new and different features including adjustable rooms sizes and dampening. As you know, lowering the RT high setting will simulate air absorption in large rooms. Correctly modeling dampening characteristics across the room is more complicated and requires potentially large amounts of CPU within this particular algorithm.


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## KEM (Jul 22, 2022)

It does sound very good, and the intro price is very attractive, but as someone with Cinematic Rooms Professional do I really need it? Maybe not, but I sure am tempted, I’ll give the demo a try and see how it compares


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## KEM (Jul 25, 2022)

Downloaded the trial and I think this reverb sounds very good, especially the early reflections (as others here have noted), I’ll probably end up getting it and using it for its initial reflections and then continue using Cinematic Rooms Pro for its tail, I tried it out and really liked how it sounded


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## Camus (Jul 25, 2022)

This Reverb is great ! I had the original Yardstick years ago. And this sounds like the yardstick. Ím really happy with it.


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## KEM (Jul 25, 2022)

I’m generally a fan of very clear, uncolored reverbs when it comes to the orchestra so this is very much up my alley, I’m considering buying Nimbus as well given it’s current price point and seeing how each of them compare and blend, using three reverbs at once sounds like a bit much but I’ve heard of a lot of people doing that so I’m willing to give it a try


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 26, 2022)

Well, from my own little bit of comparing, I'd say that Anwida Soft SPATIO Hall is the prettiest for unnatural FX reverb; Symphony 3D (my current go-to for orchestral) comes out ahead for beautifying plus physicality in comparison to Verberate 2, but it is may need more tweaking; and Quantum Evolution actually sounds most realistic, though there are few of the presets that I like (which ultimately doesn't matter much when its the tail) - but the plates on the Quantum, I don't like at all. They may sound realistic, though; I don't know. But I'm okay for plate reverbs already anyway.

Hmm. So, I want all of them. But I think that Quantum Evolution has now edged out SPATIO at the top of my wish list.

Verberate 2 is certainly interesting too; but perhaps because I am used to it, I preferred Symphony 3D for the same contexts I'd probably use Verberate.


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## Bee_Abney (Jul 26, 2022)

Oh, and Stratus 3D beats them all for realism. But it isn't a beautifying reverb for music. I tend to use it in conjunction with another reverb to provide an underlying physical space.


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## Russell Anderson (Jul 26, 2022)

Thank you @savantaudio for the reply. If my personal vote makes any difference, I say bring on the CPU demands. If you have any interest in developing it further, starting with the two possibilities you mentioned of a very cpu-demanding modelling of room dampening characteristics or adjustable size as a new product or any kind of implementation, count me as a very interested party. That is something I think would be fascinating to hear and I along with probably many other people would be willing to put at least some money toward the kickstarter campaign for it. I like this reverb a lot as it is, enough that I might buy it despite actively trying to reduce the number of reverbs I own.

If there is anything you can work up from under-the-hood into adjustable parameters without hurting your design vision, please, I would love more ability to tinker with this thing for sound design and also for typical use. As it is, how little is required to dial in a suitable sound is a strong selling point for me. As is the sound. All I had heard about this reverb before loading up the demo was a more established friend mentioning that this reverb was making the rounds, so I listened to it against some LiquidSonics/Relab reverbs, and thought, "Wow, this Quantum 2772 sounds _really_ good... at so many settings", and for it to be so easy to use... well, that's really something isn't it! Very well done, congratulations on the release of this plugin and I am very much hoping to see more audio software development coming from you!


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## KEM (Jul 26, 2022)

savantaudio said:


> Hi Russell, thanks for your interest. Like the hardware, the Quantum is fixed at a room size of 10.4m3. The bonus 1982 presets include rooms of 10.5 and 10.6m3. It is possible that we will develop a new reverb in the future that has a similar design concept to the hardware but with new and different features including adjustable rooms sizes and dampening. As you know, lowering the RT high setting will simulate air absorption in large rooms. Correctly modeling dampening characteristics across the room is more complicated and requires potentially large amounts of CPU within this particular algorithm.



Bring it on, my M1 Ultra Mac Studio can handle it


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## KEM (Jul 26, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> I find its makes a really nice ER front-end with other reverbs. I'm currently using it with Cinematic Rooms and it adds a lot of spaciousness. Much in the same way that you'd get by adding VSL Imager Pro but without confusing the location as much.



Quick question: when doing this, do you have both plugins on the same send, or each plugin as separate sends?


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## Russell Anderson (Jul 26, 2022)

parallel is generally what you want. You can experiment with introducing little bits of bleed of the ERs into the LRs.


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## José Herring (Aug 4, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> I don't mind them being oververbed, but I prefered the Bricasti in the A/B comparison. And I'm by no means a Bricasti fanboy, don't own the real thing nor a plugin version of it.
> 
> 
> If you buy it, maybe you can make another blind shootout thread like with the strings. Everyone loves those!


I'm working it out. Hopefully in the next few days.

BTW where is that bricasti comparison?


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## MartinH. (Aug 4, 2022)

José Herring said:


> I'm working it out. Hopefully in the next few days.
> 
> BTW where is that bricasti comparison?



Cool!

Here is the link:





Completely unscientific blind reverb throwdown: hardware vs software (including the bricasti debate)


I tried to balance all the settings and specs and levels best I could. But let’s be honest, I really just slapped some verb on some samples. If you want to nitpick the settings this is probably not the thread for you. That said, I'm happy to tweak any levels if they don't sound right. These...




vi-control.net





But the sound samples seem to be down, maybe @chillbot still has them.

Edit: damn, I think I misunderstood and you were asking for something else. The video probably was linked in this thread, but I don't remember which one it was.
Third video in the first post of the thread maybe?


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## José Herring (Aug 4, 2022)

MartinH. said:


> Cool!
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> ...


I found it and it is interesting that the Bricasti does edge out the Quantum just a bit. On the other hand this bricasti cost thousands.


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## gordinho (Aug 5, 2022)

Anyone using this for ER to place modeled strings/instruments in space?


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## kgdrum (Aug 10, 2022)

I keep trying to ignore this release but the little bit of resistive discipline I still have seems to be wavering………
This is an amazing 1st release from a new developer,now I’m wondering can my Cheesegrater handle this magnificent reverb?


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## KEM (Aug 10, 2022)

kgdrum said:


> I keep trying to ignore this release but the little bit of resistive discipline I still have seems to be wavering………
> This is an amazing 1st release from a new developer,now I’m wondering can my Cheesegrater handle this magnificent reverb?



My Mac Studio can handle it just fine!!


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## synergy543 (Aug 10, 2022)

KEM said:


> Quick question: when doing this, do you have both plugins on the same send, or each plugin as separate sends?


Ideally they would be on different sends in parallel. This way, you can bleed the ER both directly and into the reverb. However, I'm using in Dorico and Unify at the moment so they are in serial. Either way, having and ER reverb and a tail reverb makes a significant difference to the overall depth and ambience.


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## KEM (Aug 10, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> Ideally they would be on different sends in parallel. This way, you can bleed the ER both directly and into the reverb. However, I'm using in Dorico and Unify at the moment so they are in serial. Either way, having and ER reverb and a tail reverb makes a significant difference to the overall depth and ambience.



So you’re sending a send into a send? Inception…


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## KEM (Aug 10, 2022)

Also, if you’re just wanting to use the early reflections how short do you make the decay time? .50ms or less?


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## Russell Anderson (Aug 10, 2022)

I figured that was the intent of "First Reflection" but if it's not providing the rigjt sound then short decay time is the only other available option besides making sure the predelays are suitably short.


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## Robo Rivard (Aug 10, 2022)

That thinny little GUI is definitely not for me... This is 2022.


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## synergy543 (Aug 10, 2022)

KEM said:


> So you’re sending a send into a send? Inception…


Yeah, you can do that in a DAW (I use DP - just treat the ER as another instrument track and adjust to taste. Below is an ex. of this setup but with Altiverb + Lex). However, just running two units either in serial or parallel I think yields the best results (to create both depth and reverb ambience). Greater efforts tend to yield diminishing returns so I try to focus on the biggest bang for the buck. The settings that Savant shows on p.2 in his video work quite well as does the Theatre setting for smaller rooms.

Altiverb is also a useful tool for adding ER as you have separate control of the ER and the reverb as well as modulation. To me though, it matters little which plugin I'm using as long as I can achieve the target result I'm after. The value of Quantum Evolution is that it "doesn't use modulation" so this works very nicely on instruments such as piano. In other cases, you might want the modulation to create a lusher sound. So it depends upon the use case. Let your ears be the deciding factor.



KEM said:


> Also, if you’re just wanting to use the early reflections how short do you make the decay time? .50ms or less?


The time delay of 0.50ms would only be the distance of about 1/2 a foot so it wouldn't be useful and would likely result in horrible phase cancellations. If you think of each foot as being 1ms, 1st reflections off of walls would likely be at least 20 ~ 30ms and likely longer in a large space (30~50ms). There are typically a lot of early reflections though, not just one. This is why it makes more sense to just add a bit of pre-delay to the reverb sometimes to increase clarity. The Quantec has early reflections built into the reverb which is why it creates such a nice sense of space (the room sound). Its sort of the opposite approach of the Lexicon reverbs (less their "sha-sha sound) but both are trying to achieve the same results.

Sending a send into a send - note how ER 3-4 feeds reverb on bus 5-6


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## KEM (Aug 10, 2022)

synergy543 said:


> Yeah, you can do that in a DAW (I use DP - just treat the ER as another instrument track and adjust to taste. Below is an ex. of this setup but with Altiverb + Lex). However, just running two units either in serial or parallel I think yields the best results (to create both depth and reverb ambience). Greater efforts tend to yield diminishing returns so I try to focus on the biggest bang for the buck. The settings that Savant shows on p.2 in his video work quite well as does the Theatre setting for smaller rooms.
> 
> Altiverb is also a useful tool for adding ER as you have separate control of the ER and the reverb as well as modulation. To me though, it matters little which plugin I'm using as long as I can achieve the target result I'm after. The value of Quantum Evolution is that it "doesn't use modulation" so this works very nicely on instruments such as piano. In other cases, you might want the modulation to create a lusher sound. So it depends upon the use case. Let your ears be the deciding factor.
> 
> ...



Very interesting, I’ll definitely be spending some time messing around with different settings and see what works best, thanks!


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## FWB (Aug 11, 2022)

Robo Rivard said:


> That thinny little GUI is definitely not for me... This is 2022.


Did you see the GUI can be scaled up to 150%?


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## Russell Anderson (Aug 11, 2022)

Well, it does have issues with font rendering/blurriness/impossible angles in the skeuomorphism. And the suddenly flat blue circles on the dials that look like placeholders on the skeuo interface.
I was more bothered by those things initially but I don't really care at the moment, hopefully the developer does get around to some visual updates in the next months


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## Robo Rivard (Aug 12, 2022)

FWB said:


> Did you see the GUI can be scaled up to 150%?


No I didn't. Thanks for the info.


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## Gamono (Aug 14, 2022)

I'm really impressed with Quantum 2772 Evolution - I put together this video where I go through some of the presets. I agree with comments about how rich it sounds - it almost feels to me like it has the richness of a convolution ir but with the benefits of an algorithmic reverb?


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## Russell Anderson (Oct 2, 2022)

Not sure if this has happened to anyone else yet, but I encountered a problem where Quantum's output was clipping. Volume was unaffected by adjusting the dry level or reverb levels, it output constant sound unless disabled. Lowering stereo correlation seemed to reduce the effect, but despite being set to output silence, it was still outputting high volume.

I was able to fix the issue by changing to a 1982 preset and back, and then dialing my settings back in. Not sure what was causing the plugin to output a set level of audio regardless of its settings... glad it was only an issue for a minute. Because this is my favorite reverb! (Is anyone buying Seventh Heaven Professional? I'm selling!)

*EDIT: *Should probably also mention this was _before updating_, as I just downloaded the recent update. Yay for the grabbable correlation slider! It might still be useful to mention that this bug took place, and also to mention this was in REAPER v6.68 on Windows 11.


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## pianistje (Nov 9, 2022)

I’m not an expert whatsoever and have a modest few reverbs. Lexicon hardware, Liquid Sonics Illusions , Reverberate 2 , cinematic rooms and R4. Of course some DAW reverbs etc. But this is truly something else. I just bought it and put a bit on some final mixes that i slightly adjusted.

i have a strong feeling this was the missing piece in my mixes. I hope a future update includes some smaller rooms. I have no idea why gems like this attract so little conversation. Heck i only found out the other week after refreshing my memory about Bricasti M7 and Quantec Yardstick hardware .


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## vitocorleone123 (Nov 10, 2022)

I tried the demo awhile back.

I didn't like it compared to CRP and TaiChi, or even HDCart.

Sub-optimal UI and relatively static sound. Hard pass for me. Can get further with Reverberate 3 for reverbs that sound like IRs.

My ears don't hear the hype about the reverb, but several people definitely seem to love it!


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## XComposer (Nov 10, 2022)

Well, it depends on taste and music genre. Reverbs are highly subjective. For instance, I love and own Cinematic Rooms Pro and HD Cart – and Reverberate and Seventh Heaven, too, but I strongly prefer Quantum 2772 Evolution over Tai Chi, which is simply not my kind of reverb (though its UI is fantastic, really very well made and I could buy it with a strong discount, since I own almost all the other LiquidSonics reverbs plus HD Cart). After trying the demo accurately, I decided not to buy Tai Chi, but I think I will buy Quantum 2772 Evolution. To me, the unmodulated sound is an important quality and a merit.


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