# Jacob collier's logic session breakdown: "moon river"



## ag75 (Dec 13, 2019)

This is pretty inspiring and pretty damn genius.


Jacob Collier breaks down the logic session of his GRAMMY nominated arrangement of Moon River.


----------



## Saxer (Dec 16, 2019)

Genius


----------



## Alex Fraser (Dec 16, 2019)

Wow - thanks for that. Never heard of the guy before. He's got such a raw creative brain. So many cool ideas.


----------



## Salorom (Dec 16, 2019)

Immense talent


----------



## Nils Neumann (Dec 16, 2019)

This guy is not from this world!


----------



## jon wayne (Dec 16, 2019)

Nils Neumann said:


> This guy is not from this world!


When I am thinking how to play a B7#9 b5, he is justifying how 
You play an F triad on top of that. On another plain, for sure.


----------



## RonV (Dec 16, 2019)

Agreed....His sense of pitch is remarkable, along with his knowledge and USE of harmony. Who else uses keys like G half-sharp and E half-flat...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 16, 2019)

jon wayne said:


> When I am thinking how to play a B7#9 b5, he is justifying how
> You play an F triad on top of that. On another plain, for sure.



I too find this guy amazing, but unfortunately the video is "unavailable" some of the time in threads here (so I'll go to YouTube to find it).

But an F triad over B7#9 b5 isn't mysterious when you stop to think that it's just b5, 7, and b9! At Berklee they call these upper structure triads.

There's another JC video in which he says, oh yeah, easy, I just sing five pitches between G and E (min 3rd below). Sure, who can't do that.


----------



## ironbut (Dec 16, 2019)

Awesome stuff.
I'd have to say we're lucky to have someone happy to give us a deep look into his thought process.


----------



## jon wayne (Dec 16, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I too find this guy amazing, but unfortunately the video is "unavailable" some of the time in threads here (so I'll go to YouTube to find it).
> 
> But an F triad over B7#9 b5 isn't mysterious when you stop to think that it's just b5, 7, and b9! At Berklee they call these upper structure triads.
> 
> There's another JC video in which he says, oh yeah, easy, I just sing five pitches between G and E (min 3rd below). Sure, who can't do that.


Funny, even though I’ve had plenty of theory, I was grabbing random chords. Got lucky on the relationship!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 16, 2019)

Yeah, I just watched some of that. He's awesome.


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 16, 2019)

He is gifted, inventive, skilled, all that, for sure.

And yet I don't like to listen to his music much. Too busy, too heavily processed, for my taste. Bottom line, I admire it much more than I enjoy it.


----------



## ag75 (Dec 16, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> He has gifted, inventive, skilled, all that, for sure.
> 
> And yet I don't like to listen to his music much. Too busy, too heavily processed, for my taste. Bottom line, I admire it much more than I enjoy it.


I actually 100 percent agree with you. It doesn't move me. But I DID find his logic session crazy interesting.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 16, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> At Berklee they call these upper structure triads.



Actually, that's wrong, isn't it? I think only 9, 11, and 13 (and variants) are called upper structure triads.

I'm old enough to remember that one forgets this kind of thing.


----------



## I like music (Dec 17, 2019)

His stuff doesn't click with me. HOWEVER, there's almost no one in the world whose abilities I would want at this point. Seems he can just hear things I will never be able to. And all that training etc he's had. Yeah, clearly talented, often over my head, not stuff I naturally enjoy, but I can sort of see what the fuss is about. Seems I have lots of negative things to say about him, yet quite likeable too.

Yeah, I'd give a lot to have 10% of his musical chops.


----------



## I like music (Dec 17, 2019)

And yes, this session is pretty damn good. And also I do like the cover very much. Maybe I'm being converted.


----------



## MrCambiata (Dec 17, 2019)

I'm always a little hesitant to say something negative about a successful musician, because one might be labeled as being jealous. But I am much more jealous of the beautiful melody that Mancini wrote than of what Collier did with it. While I do appreciate his tremendous musical ability, it's just too much unnecessary complexity to my taste. Like a dish with all possible spices...


----------



## CGR (Dec 17, 2019)

I admire Jacob's musical prowess and deep understanding of complex harmony. An amazing talent and I enjoy his enthusiasm for sharing his knowledge. I do enjoy his less complex stuff where he doesn't feel the need to 'use all the colours in his pencil box'. As MrCambiata alluded to above, that timeless melody by Henry Mancini is what it's all about.

I'd be interested to watch him develop as he matures, and how his music evolves. I'm reminded of Miles Davis's album 'Kind of Blue' which was such a contrast to the frantic energy & complexity of Bebop. He (along with Bill Evans) distilled the essence of the compositions into incredibly elegant but quite simple arrangements with great depth & emotion.


----------



## tokatila (Dec 17, 2019)

Somehow his stuff reminds me of the fact that Nikolai Tesla's closest friend was a dove.


----------



## Jazzy_Joe (Dec 17, 2019)

He's definitely a unique talent, and mature musician. Check out this for something a little more accessible, lovely compositions and set.




Also here's a lovely piano jam set with Mathis Picard. Serious chops and improvisation on display:


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 17, 2019)

MrCambiata said:


> I'm always a little hesitant to say something negative about a successful musician, because one might be labeled as being jealous. But I am much more jealous of the beautiful melody that Mancini wrote than of what Collier did with it. While I do appreciate his tremendous musical ability, it's just too much unnecessary complexity to my taste. Like a dish with all possible spices...




Just for the sake of clarity, in no way did I mean to imply any disrespect. It isn't a put down to say of somebody's music "I don't enjoy it.

One of my best friends here in LA is a musician who dislikes any music that he thinks lacks sufficient testosterone  

When I gave him my CD, I knew it would not be to his taste. And sure enough, after he listened to it he said something like, "Well as you know, this is not my kind of music but I can hear that it is very well done and I hear your passion for it in the music."


----------



## Alex Fraser (Dec 17, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> Just for the sake of clarity, in no way did I mean to imply any disrespect. It isn't a put down to say of somebody's music "I don't enjoy it.
> 
> One of my best friends here in LA is a musician who dislikes any music that he thinks lacks sufficient testosterone
> 
> When I gave him my CD, I knew it would not be to his taste. And sure enough, after he listened to it he said something like, "Well as you know, this is not my kind of music but I can hear that it is very well done and I hear your passion for it in the music."


My wife _hates _my music - it makes her "skin crawl.."


----------



## Ashermusic (Dec 17, 2019)

Alex Fraser said:


> My wife _hates _my music - it makes her "skin crawl.."



I can tolerate that from a friend, not sure I could from my wife

Fortunately, she fell in love with me partly because of my music from the git-go.


----------



## I like music (Dec 17, 2019)

Jazzy_Joe said:


> He's definitely a unique talent, and mature musician. Check out this for something a little more accessible, lovely compositions and set.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Alright, admittedly, that song 'Feel' was pretty damn good. I had written him off as someone that was super talented but 'not my cuppa tea'

Glad you linked to that.


----------



## lsabina (Dec 17, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Actually, that's wrong, isn't it? I think only 9, 11, and 13 (and variants) are called upper structure triads.
> 
> I'm old enough to remember that one forgets this kind of thing.


No, that is correct. In the half-whole diminished scale, 3 “upper structure” major triads can be found. So, using C half-whole, place C, E, and Bb in the bass clef, and in the treble clef place one of the following major triads: Eb, F#, A. You can also use a D major triad over those left hand notes, but the D isn’t found in the scale.


----------



## Jazzy_Joe (Dec 17, 2019)

I like music said:


> Alright, admittedly, that song 'Feel' was pretty damn good. I had written him off as someone that was super talented but 'not my cuppa tea'
> 
> Glad you linked to that.



Glad you enjoyed it  Yes he is a bit of a musical touring freak-show at this moment of his youth, but as CGR said earlier in this thread, it will be interesting to see how he matures. 

Regarding the upper triads, as a jazz pianist any triad above my left hand chord has a place if used correctly. Check out some Bill Evan's Intros, and upper triads are a great source for melodic ideas!


----------



## I like music (Dec 17, 2019)

Jazzy_Joe said:


> Glad you enjoyed it  Yes he is a bit of a musical touring freak-show at this moment of his youth, but as CGR said earlier in this thread, it will be interesting to see how he matures.
> 
> Regarding the upper triads, as a jazz pianist any triad above my left hand chord has a place if used correctly. Check out some Bill Evan's Intros, and upper triads are a great source for melodic ideas!


Is Bill Evans the peace piece guy? I went to a concert and the pianist played it. Absolutely loved it and added it to by YT play list.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf (Dec 17, 2019)

I like music said:


> Is Bill Evans the peace piece guy? I went to a concert and the pianist played it. Absolutely loved it and added it to by YT play list.



Was it at Disney Hall a few months ago, by any chance? If so, it was an encore... I'm trying to remember the pianist's name, but he was outrageously good.


----------



## I like music (Dec 17, 2019)

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Was it at Disney Hall a few months ago, by any chance? If so, it was an encore... I'm trying to remember the pianist's name, but he was outrageously good.



Haha, actually it was in a very small auditorium in a sleepy county in the UK. And the pianist was a former comedian called Alistair McGowan (a very good impressionist) who in his late 30s decided that he was going to focus on music. So over the last 5 years he has been taking lessons, and playing the piano. He's touring the country and plays some pretty basic pieces. He make a lot of mistakes along the way, but since you're essentially watching a very eager amateur, the mistakes become a part of the charm.

He finished off the whole thing with Piece Peace. And I was mesmerised. Every now and then you hear something and it surprises you. The one thing I didn't expect in this concert was to walk away having been sonically punched in the head. Anyways, now I'm thinking I want to find out more.


----------



## Saxer (Dec 17, 2019)




----------



## Living Fossil (Dec 27, 2019)

Ashermusic said:


> He is gifted, inventive, skilled, all that, for sure.
> 
> And yet I don't like to listen to his music much. Too busy, too heavily processed, for my taste. Bottom line, I admire it much more than I enjoy it.



My "problem" with his music is a different one ('though it's not a "problem" but rather the constellation that i don't like to listen to his music that much):

I completely admire his inner hearing, his otherwordly talent of intonation as a singer.
However, in my late teens, i grew up very much with the expressionistic music of Arnold Schönberg and Alban Berg. I i really loved those chords which incorporated maybe all 12 chromatic notes that were set in a way that they was not only completely plausible but also had a unique character.
And coming from there, i always perceived it as a very conservative way to stick that much to scales and functional harmony... so my concern is rather not what JC does in his music (which somehow doesn't "speak" to me) but what he does _not_.

However, as he is really very young, i hope that he will evolve in a writing that is more independent from scales and functions... The modern concert music ("Neue Musik") is dominated quite a bit by people who often have an incredibly bad inner hearing, so it would be great to hear what a person with a hearing at genius level does with those musical concepts.


----------



## sinkd (Dec 27, 2019)

lsabina said:


> No, that is correct. In the half-whole diminished scale, 3 “upper structure” major triads can be found. So, using C half-whole, place C, E, and Bb in the bass clef, and in the treble clef place one of the following major triads: Eb, F#, A. You can also use a D major triad over those left hand notes, but the D isn’t found in the scale.


Ab triad is an as well. #5/#9 from the altered scale.


----------



## Salorom (Dec 27, 2019)

Saxer said:


>



Amazing! Gotta love the final drone shot, too


----------

