# Finale w/ VE Pro?



## shnootre (Aug 4, 2016)

I'm eager to hear from folks who have incorporated Vienna Ensemble Pro into their finale composition process. I'm looking for ways to incorporate better sample libraries into the work I do in Finale (while knowing full well that real, full-fledged mockups need to be made elsewhere). 

Would just like to know if some have had great success using VE Pro to manage playback only while working in Finale (and if it's worth the $!) 

Thanks!


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## wcreed51 (Aug 5, 2016)

Yes, it works very well


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## shnootre (Aug 8, 2016)

I'd welcome any setup tricks or advice you might have. I got VE Pro today, but the learning curve seems steep. I ran it in standalone mode, using the IAC buses to send midi out from finale. Played a while, but even just using the basic Aria players/GPO sounds, I got horrible popping and clicking. Probably a thousand things I'm doing wrong as I'm trying to learn VE Pro, incorporate it into my setup, AND meet a deadline! (for now I'm back to just working within Finale). 

I was not able to see VE Pro as a possible plug-in from within Finale. Seems like some people are using it that way. 

Anyway - any personal experiences, advice, or firm talking-to's about this most very welcome!


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## Paul T McGraw (Aug 15, 2016)

shnootre said:


> I'd welcome any setup tricks or advice you might have. I got VE Pro today, but the learning curve seems steep. I ran it in standalone mode, using the IAC buses to send midi out from finale. Played a while, but even just using the basic Aria players/GPO sounds, I got horrible popping and clicking. Probably a thousand things I'm doing wrong as I'm trying to learn VE Pro, incorporate it into my setup, AND meet a deadline! (for now I'm back to just working within Finale).
> 
> I was not able to see VE Pro as a possible plug-in from within Finale. Seems like some people are using it that way.
> 
> Anyway - any personal experiences, advice, or firm talking-to's about this most very welcome!



The popping and clicking is most likely caused by the ASIO sound device engine. If that is the cause as I suspect, then you need a larger buffer setting. Notation programs like Finale and Sibelius are not very efficient compared to a dedicated DAW. So a buffer setting of something like 1026 might work with your DAW, but a setting of 3,000 or 4,000 is needed for Finale or Sibelius. I had similar problems using Sibelius and only discovered this buffer problem by a large amount of frustrating trial and error.

Also, if you really want to use a Notation program as your sound source, I have found that VSL provides better support for Sibelius.


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## shnootre (Aug 15, 2016)

Thanks. I've got a lot of things sorted now - VE Pro 6 is running nicely from within Finale, and no pops or clicks!
I know Sibelius integrates better, but I'm 25 years into Finale and nothing will get me to switch. (except, you know...Dorico...) 

The only thing that isn't working for me now are key switches (specifically, the arco/pizz keyswitches for the GPO 5 string patches). But I'll sort that. I'm experiencing much better stability, being able to load more samples, and playback sounds good!


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## Paul T McGraw (Aug 16, 2016)

shnootre said:


> Thanks. I've got a lot of things sorted now - VE Pro 6 is running nicely from within Finale, and no pops or clicks!
> I know Sibelius integrates better, but I'm 25 years into Finale and nothing will get me to switch. (except, you know...Dorico...)
> 
> The only thing that isn't working for me now are key switches (specifically, the arco/pizz keyswitches for the GPO 5 string patches). But I'll sort that. I'm experiencing much better stability, being able to load more samples, and playback sounds good!



Awesome! Another thing to check is the octave for the keyswitch assignments. In Sibelius middle C is C4, so for some samples the keyswitch locations are at C-1 instead of C0, etc. Hope it goes well for you.


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## wcreed51 (Aug 16, 2016)

Remember, GPO keyswitches are not related to VEP. That's a matter of the correct HP settings.

Also, be sure to load the 64bit server so you can access all your RAM.


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## waveheavy (Sep 19, 2016)

To have Finale recognize your VST's (including VEPro), look under the MIDI/Audio menu and find Manage VST Plugin Directories. List your target directory where VE is. Do the same for any other VST's you might have.

Vienna Instruments website has a keyswitch map for Finale that can be downloaded. It works well with VEpro. VE will load 32 bit or 64 bit instruments, so 32 bit Finale isn't affected. Kontakt is harder to use in Finale 2014; I hope they fixed that in the new 64 bit Finale.


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## BachN4th (Sep 30, 2016)

I'm on a trial of the new Finale 25, I found that I could not get VE Pro 6 to show up inside Finale. Dropped back to VE Pro 4 and it shows up and works well. I'm using Spitfire's UACC's inside Finale to do my articulation switching. Not the most elegant, but it gets the job done.


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## Greig Hutchens (Oct 19, 2016)

I've had some very minor VEP Success with Finale - but the Audio on Finale typically glitches and then Finale (v25) crashes... (Using VEP6 on a Macbook Pro and running Finale 25 on my Studio iMac.)


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## gwhiz (Jan 22, 2017)

Interestingly I'm doing a 9 piece brass thing and I get tons of pops and clicks in the Exported AIFF file, but not while playing back from Finale. I have VE Pro 6 64b running locally on a Mac Pro 8cpu El Kapitan (10.11...) with Finale 2014.5, and 9 VSL brass loaded. So, no sending sounds over a network. When I use Kontakt 5 with Spitfire's new Brass I don't get any clicks or pops in the recording. Someone said to increase buffering. VEP Server doesn't seem to have a buffering setting? There is buffering in my audio interface but that isn't used to generate the AIFF file. Help?


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## snedz2 (Jan 22, 2017)

I had the same problem with Finale 2014.5 and VEP, when I was sorting some orchestral demos for some singers to rehearse to.
I think it is Finale's problem rather than VEP.
I got round it by using Rogue Ameoba's Audio Hijack and recorded the audio output of Finale rather than exporting the audio direct, It worked really well.


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## gwhiz (Jan 25, 2017)

snedz2 said:


> I had the same problem with Finale 2014.5 and VEP, when I was sorting some orchestral demos for some singers to rehearse to.
> I think it is Finale's problem rather than VEP.
> I got round it by using Rogue Ameoba's Audio Hijack and recorded the audio output of Finale rather than exporting the audio direct, It worked really well.



I tried Finale tech support. They had me up the buffer size within Finale. I had to set it to 4098 before all the pops were gone, but it worked.


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## wcreed51 (Jan 26, 2017)

Are you using audio hardware with a good ASIO driver?


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## shnootre (Feb 8, 2017)

Just seeing this - a bit late! VE Pro 6 works very nicely w/ Finale for me. Spitfire UACC, however, not so much. I mean, I can get it to work if I set the CC data manually. But when I set up Human Playback Preferences to work for Spitfire, it seems the UACC messages are sent a bit too late, so often the first note is missing. (I see this when I export midi and look in a DAW). Also, when no notes are playing, the default setting is no UACC value at all, so that in those instances where the change happens late, there is generally no sound at all. This is also a problem when you click inside a staff using speedy entry in order hear the sound of that staff. (The Spitfire insts give nothing in this case). 

I don't even attempt to raise these issues with Finale tech support. They have made it very clear that they have absolutely no interest in helping w/ any product that isn't Garritan. (and I don't think the current tech support team has any clue how the Human Playback system really works).


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## Dear Villain (Mar 29, 2017)

This may sound silly to some, but I notate scores in Finale and create mock-ups in Cubase by importing the midi files from Finale. However, after spending some time a couple of years ago trying to get my VSL libraries to work in Finale, I resigned myself to the fact that it was easier to just continue using Garritan while notating. After a while, I actually enjoyed this approach, because (and this is the silly part), there was a reward waiting as soon as I'd import the file in to Cubase and hear the patches using VSL instruments...even before doing a single key switch edit, or CC data, just the richness of the sounds after hearing the piece for the days/weeks in Finale, made it a great improvement. 

For my non "serious" (classical) pieces, I just sequence directly in Cubase.


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## JJP (Mar 29, 2017)

Dear Villain said:


> I resigned myself to the fact that it was easier to just continue using Garritan while notating.



I do the same. I never bothered to go through the trouble to set up the keyswitches, etc. It's one of those things I'm still meaning to do, but just haven't gotten around to it.

I see two other benefits to using Garritan. First, it sounds like a rough guide and I never for a moment believe that what I'm hearing back is how it will truly sound. That allows me to focus on what I'm hearing in my mind's ear and stay focused on writing or orchestrating.

Second, if anyone else wants to play back my file to get a rough idea of how things will sound, they can do so with minimal tweaking because they will probably have Garritan installed with Finale.


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