# External SSD Question



## MediaComposer88 (Jan 8, 2014)

Hello all,

I'm currently pushing my iMac to its limits when it comes to working with big orchestral templates. Probably, this won't surprise anyone when I say it has 16 GB of RAM (maximum) and I don't have a SSD.

I was wondering whether buying an external SSD for sample libraries only would increase performance, or if this would not be a huge improvement considering adding more RAM isn't possible.

Also, a while back I read that external SSD are not as quick or something like that.

Any advice on this would be great, and if the advice would be: get a new computer, so be it. 

Regards!

Dennis


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## KingIdiot (Jan 8, 2014)

It should improve drastically enough to warrant purchase, however putting it internally will perform better still


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## Mike Marino (Jan 8, 2014)

Dennis, what are your iMac specs?


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## TGV (Jan 8, 2014)

If your iMac has USB3, you'll get very decent mileage out of the SSD. If your iMac has USB2, it will still help, but not it won't be able to replace your current disks. So yes, your specs are important to answer the question.


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## MediaComposer88 (Jan 8, 2014)

Hello all,

I do appreciate you guys chiming in so quickly, thanks!

iMac specs:
- 3,4 GHz Intel Core i7 (quad-core)
- 16 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 RAM
- 2TB 7200 rpm hard drive
- 4 USB 2.0 ports (no USB 3.0)
- 2 Thunderbolt ports
- 1 FireWire 800 port

I guess I'm pushing the machine to its limits, but I love it so much that it would be great if I could improve its performance (for instance by employing an external SSD) instead of buying a new machine (for if I would go for a new machine, it would be a PC at the moment, but at this point I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving OS X).

Cheers,

Dennis


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## TGV (Jan 8, 2014)

Does that mean you've got all your samples on the internal drive? If so, an external disk will be of great help. SSDs have the advantage of streaming faster, but USB2 is a bit limited in speed. Since you've got two Thunderbolt ports, try to find an enclosure for that, and build an SSD or a "Velociraptor" into it, depending on your needs. It's a bit more expensive, but has advantages in speed, extensibility (adding an extra disk) and you can later take out the SSD and replace it with a bigger one. You can find them (enclosures, I mean, but also SSDs of course) at webites like Newegg and Amazon, or a well-equiped PC store in your neighbourhood.


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## MediaComposer88 (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks for your helpful advice, TGV.

Indeed, I have all my libraries stored on my internal HD.

Could you perhaps recommend any brands for SSDs and enclosures?

All the best,

Dennis


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## TGV (Jan 8, 2014)

I don't know about enclosures. I've only used one for USB2/3, and it was a generic one. Since an enclosure is relatively simple, I don't expect big differences between manufacturers. Make sure though that the internal interface of the enclosure matches the SSD or hard disk you want to use it with. Size is not that important. You can build a 2.5" disk in an enclosure for 3.5" disks using an adapter (costs just a few $ or €). Speed isn't a problem either: if the enclosure is 3Gb/s and the disk 6Gb/s, the disk will adapt.

Here's are some reviews:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6225/prom ... bolt-drive
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5032/laci ... lt-storage (notice they complain about the noise at the end)
http://anandtech.com/show/7618/lacie-li ... ini-review

If you find Thunderbolt enclosures difficult to judge, or too expensive, consider a Firewire 800 one. It's a bit slower, but still can push 80MB/s around, enough for 400 stereo 16-bit voices at 44.1kHz.

SSD brands? Samsung seems to be the best ticket in town at the moment. Check http://www.techspot.com/reviews/storage/ for some coverage. OCZ was in default recently, so you might want to avoid them.

I'd recommend using the SSD purely for sample storage. Don't use the disk as a working space.


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## gaz (Jan 9, 2014)

Hi Dennis,

I have the same iMac as you (2011 correct?) and added a Pegasus J4 and 4 x Samsung 520GB 840 SSDs, configured in JBOD mode. The difference in performance is night and day. If you can't afford four SSDs, I'd still recommend getting the J4 as you can add to it later. You could even use some regular HDs in the missing slots and get a benefit in performance over our USB drives.

Cheers,
Gari


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## MediaComposer88 (Jan 9, 2014)

Excellent suggestions guys, thanks!

@Gari: Yes, mine is a 2011 (mid) model as well. Good to hear it improves performance that drastically.

I've been doing some research on enclosures as well as the Samsung drives. The Samsung EVO 500GB seems like a great option (link: http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/memory-storage/MZ-7TE500BW). However, I was wondering if any of you guys recommended getting the PRO model (link: http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/memory-storage/MZ-7PD512BW) instead of the EVO, and if yes, why? To me, the main differences are the warranty length (3 vs. 5 years) and the NAND (1x vs. 2x). The latter specification is kind of a mystery to me, so any advice on this would be great. 

Being new to the topic of SSDs, the different adapters/connectors are a little over my head. Also, it seems the options for Thunderbolt are closures are relatively few and they tend to be quite costly.

I came across some solutions I could use some advice on.

Thunderbolt SSDs (any reasons not to go for a external Thunderbolt SSD?)
- *LaCie Little Big Disk Thunderbolt 2* - An upcoming product of which the price is not known yet. But considering it will hold 1TB SSD, I guess it will be quite expensive (link: http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10621)
- *LaCie Little Big Disk 512GB* - What are your opinions on this one? (link: http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10549)
- *LaCie Rugged 500GB* (link: http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10599)

Adapters/Enclosures
- *LaCie eSATA Hub* (link: http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10574)
- *Seagate Thunderbolt Adaptor* (link: http://www.seagate.com/gb/en/external-hard-drives/portable-hard-drives/performance/backup-plus-for-mac-thunderbolt/?sku=STAE128) - A lot cheaper than some enclosures I came across, but is it the right option for me or am I missing something important here? Interesting note: the Seagate site says it's compatible with two types of their drives, however, at Amazon some customers claimed they used SSDs of other brands.

Cheers,

Dennis


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## snattack (Jan 9, 2014)

Yesterday I bought a Crucial M500 + an external USB3 (SATA6) enclosure for quite good money. Speed test shows 255mb/s read & write in OSX.


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## gaz (Jan 9, 2014)

If you go for a TB enclosure, make sure it has two ports on it, otherwise you will not be able to daisy chain it, so it will be at the end of your setup. I have the seagate one, which I got at the very start but I wished I had just spend the extra in the first place.


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## colony nofi (Jan 9, 2014)

A couple of things.

RAM. I'm almost 95% certain you can put 32GB of ram in 2011 imacs. Just because apple didn't offer it doesn't mean it can't be done. 4x8GB sticks, and you will have a LOT more breathing space!  Its a no brainer.
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/i ... R3_21.5_27

SSD. I also have the pegasus J4, and use 2x1TB drives in RAID 0 inside it for samples. The new 1TB Crucial drives are very good value for money. There are of course many options, but this is one that I've found works very well. Thunderbolt is going to give you better results than USB3 - though of course just running a single SSD inside a USB3 enclosure will provide a decent improvement over your current scenario.

The difference you will find from running SSD's for your samples over your current spinning drive will be HUGE. The single best upgrade you can make to your system. Indeed, if you don't mind taking your imac apart, I would seriously suggest replacing your internal spinning drive with an SSD as well. The speed at which things boot / launch / seek data helps me greatly - less getting distracted while I wait for the computer to do things. But of course, YMMV.

Hope that helps. Brendan.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 9, 2014)

I bought a Rockstor TBolt dock from B&H for $199.

Advantage-it has two bays.
disadvantage-only one port.

seems speedy.


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## gaz (Jan 9, 2014)

Regarding the 32GB on the 2011 iMac, yes, it definitely works as I have it installed in mine. As mentioned, absolutely a no-brainer upgrade.


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## MediaComposer88 (Jan 10, 2014)

Thanks again for the extremely useful insights, guys. 

If it's possible to boost a mid-2011 iMac to 32GB of RAM, I'll certainly do that!

I've been looking at some TBolt enclosure possibilities and am kind of shocked at the limited options and high prices. Makes me wanna boost my RAM and wait for better SSD/Thunderbolt solutions (for instance, I'm interested how the upcoming LaCie 1 TB SSD will turn out in terms of price).

I was wondering whether anyone here has any experience with the following Thunderbolt external SSDs:
- LaCie Rugged SSD Thunderbolt (I guess the somewhat lower speed and the fact it only has one Thunderbolt port can be considered major disadvantages).
- LaCie Little Big Disk Thunderbolt Series SSD (I'm looking at 512GB). This seems like a good option: two Thunderbolt ports and no adapter/enclosure/dock needed.

All the best,

Dennis


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## TGV (Jan 10, 2014)

Prices are higher, but not in the range of replacing your computer. Plus, when you replace your computer, you'll still be able to connect the new external disk.

Anyway, an extra port on the enclosure is not really needed. You've got two ports on your iMac, and it's unlikely you're going to attach many Thunderbolt devices in the near future.


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## Stephen Baysted (Jan 10, 2014)

Definitely go for Thunderbolt.


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## MediaComposer88 (Jan 12, 2014)

Just ordered 32 gigs of RAM from Crucial - like some of you said, an absolute no-brainer. Will certainly order a SSD in the near future.

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys! 

Cheers,

Dennis


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## Pazpatu (Jan 13, 2014)

The 2 TB ports of my iMac are hold by a second display and a TV (TB>HDMI connector). If I buy a Pegasus J4, will I be able to daisy chain one of my 2 displays ?
On the Promise website, only the R4 is said to have a video "pass through"
Thanks in advance.
Paz


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## colony nofi (Jan 14, 2014)

If it has thunderbolt in/out, it will run video as the last member of the chain. That's part of the beauty of the thunderbolt spec.

I run my client monitor (big 1920x1080 LCD TV) via a displayport to HDMI adaptor plugged into the thunderbolt passthru on the back of the pegasus J4.

OWC has just announced a small 2x3.5" thunderbolt drive enclosure, if that's what you're into - which is not too expensive. The new lacie as far as I know does not use standard SATAIII drives, but instead 2xPCIe based SSD's in Raid 0 (I could be wrong) - and they will be VERY expensive for 1TB. Best guesses from folks in the field = $1200 or there abouts.

I'd say the $350 or so for a J4 which can hold up to 4x2.5" drives is VERY good value. With 1TB SSD's being around $550 these days, you can just get one for now, and keep adding as you need more. Run them JBOD, or RAID 0 if you need the ultra - high speed later.

Thunderbolt is no ordinary bus. It is more suitable for fast file transfers than USB 3.0 or FW800... and even compared to ESATA (which I used to use here) is superior once you get into the land of RAID0 or larger RAID5 arrays.


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## Pazpatu (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks for your answer Colony Nofi !
Do you know why Promise is claiming that the Pegasus R4 has a "video pass through", and not the J4 ?
http://www.promise.com/storage/raid_ser ... 40&rsn3=47


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## colony nofi (Jan 15, 2014)

The information is just a little hidden on their site - but I found it after digging a little... of all things, I found it in the press release for the avaliability of the J4 - 

I actually don't know of ANY thunderbolt products (version 1 or version 2) with 2 ports that won't allow a monitor as the last device in a chain. If they did that, it would be against spec. However, there are a few thunderbolt chains that have been shown to be not as effective as others - mainly due to bandwidth. But a single J4 isn't going to cause you any problems.



> INCREASE PRODUCTIVITY
> The Pegasus J4 is perfect for audio/video production as it provides creative professionals with the versatility to work remotely with a laptop to backup footage & start editing on-site without having to go back to the office. Additionally, since the Pegasus J4’s dual thunderbolt ports support daisy chaining, users can conveniently connect Thunderbolt enabled displays or Pegasus storage devices to boost overall transfer speeds.



A good starting point for this is the wikipedia entry for Thunderbolt - it provides a very good explanation of the protocol - and what is / isn't possible with the connections.


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## Astronaut FX (Jan 15, 2014)

colony nofi @ Tue Jan 14 said:


> If it has thunderbolt in/out, it will run video as the last member of the chain. That's part of the beauty of the thunderbolt spec.
> 
> I run my client monitor (big 1920x1080 LCD TV) via a displayport to HDMI adaptor plugged into the thunderbolt passthru on the back of the pegasus J4.
> 
> ...



For the Pegasus J4, can you use it with less than 4 drives installed? Is there a maximum memory size per drive? And how does it compare to the Drobo mini?


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## Pazpatu (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks for your answer Colony !
Paz


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## Mike Marino (Feb 6, 2014)

> For the Pegasus J4, can you use it with less than 4 drives installed? Is there a maximum memory size per drive? And how does it compare to the Drobo mini?



Curious about this myself. Anybody care to answer?


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## karmadharma (Feb 7, 2014)

Stephen Baysted @ Fri Jan 10 said:


> Definitely go for Thunderbolt.



thunderbolt would of course be the best, but if you can't swing it price-wise, rather than USB2 you might also consider FW800, you lose quite a bit of transfer rate (I think FW800 maxes out around 80MB/sec?) *but* the latency over FW800 is really good compared to USB so depending on your use case it might work for you (and a FW800 enclosure is ~100 compared to over 300 for TB, and not much more than USB)


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