# Something New from Spitfire Audio...British Drama Toolkit Discussion



## pfmusic (Jul 19, 2018)

BDT....

Coming Soon.


----------



## Wally Garten (Jul 19, 2018)

"Bloody Delightful Tunes," the plugin that writes the music while you sleep!


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 19, 2018)

Sounds like mostly woodwinds...


----------



## fretti (Jul 19, 2018)

"Frozen Woodwinds"?!


----------



## thereus (Jul 19, 2018)

Big dirty tubas


----------



## MaxOctane (Jul 19, 2018)

Sounds like a Swarm libary.


----------



## ptram (Jul 19, 2018)

An hommage to some great composer. Can someone recognize the face appearing in the teaser?

Paolo


----------



## ism (Jul 19, 2018)

Guessing, but something like LCO woodwinds maybe?


----------



## jbuhler (Jul 19, 2018)

MaxOctane said:


> Sounds like a Swarm libary.


Yes, my immediate thought was that it sounded a bit too much like Orchestral Swarm.


----------



## Tatu (Jul 19, 2018)

Quarterly goals seem strong in SF these days.


----------



## ptram (Jul 19, 2018)

"Baltic Deranged Tones".


----------



## ism (Jul 19, 2018)

Or maybe an all clarinet evo? That would be just as exciting as a swarm or LCO.


----------



## JPComposer (Jul 19, 2018)

ptram said:


> An hommage to some great composer. Can someone recognize the face appearing in the teaser?
> 
> Paolo


----------



## Wally Garten (Jul 19, 2018)

Okay, from Wikipedia:

*BDT* may refer to:


BDT, the ISO 4217 code for Bangladeshi taka (the currency of Bangladesh)
_The Best Damn Thing_, a 2007 album by Avril Lavigne
Black-Derman-Toy model, in finance a model of the evolution of the yield curve, sometimes referred to as a short rate model
Bolshoi Drama Theater (Russian: Большой Драматический Театр имени Г. А. Товстоногова; БДТ), a theater in Saint Petersburg, Russia
Binary Decision Tree, a specific type of a Binary decision diagram
Boosted Decision Tree, a type of multivariant analyzer related to an alternating decision tree.
Ballistic deflection transistor
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Behavior_Driven_Testing&action=edit&redlink=1 (Behavior Driven Testing) - is the testing perspective on Behaviour Driven Development (BDD)
British Daylight Time, a rare synonym for British Summer Time (used by Amazon.co.uk)
So my best guesses are (1) it's an Avril Lavigne-branded library, (2) it will be released at the end of British Summer Time, or (3) the Bangladeshi taka is about to explode in value, and Spitfire is actually an elaborate cover for a group of currency speculators who communicate through sample library teaser ads.


----------



## N.Caffrey (Jul 19, 2018)

The woodwinds do sound a lot like orchestral swarms.


----------



## Wolf68 (Jul 19, 2018)

I can hear choirs. The Long awaited choir.


----------



## PaulBrimstone (Jul 19, 2018)

ptram said:


> An hommage to some great composer. Can someone recognize the face appearing in the teaser?
> 
> Paolo


Looks a bit like Arvo Pärt, maybe. But I would prefer Moondog!


----------



## N.Caffrey (Jul 19, 2018)

They release so many libraries! One after the other..


----------



## Joe Maron (Jul 19, 2018)

Wally Garten said:


> Okay, from Wikipedia:
> 
> *BDT* may refer to:
> 
> ...​




Don't forget Benicio Del Toro ​


----------



## Heizenhaus (Jul 19, 2018)

N.Caffrey said:


> They release so many libraries! One after the other..


Image they wouldn't! What kind of f up place would that be?


----------



## N.Caffrey (Jul 19, 2018)

Heizenhaus said:


> Image they wouldn't! What kind of f up place would that be?


Haha def!


----------



## Grizzlymv (Jul 19, 2018)

N.Caffrey said:


> They release so many libraries! One after the other..


I heard they are a library developper so I guess it goes with it...


----------



## N.Caffrey (Jul 19, 2018)

Grizzlymv said:


> I heard they are a library developper so I guess it goes with it...


I meant the pace at which they release libraries. No any other developers release so many libraries. I like spitfire so I'm happy


----------



## Henu (Jul 19, 2018)

The sort of delicacy/quietness and the air noise is very Tundraesque to me.


----------



## MrHStudio (Jul 19, 2018)

The best bit was they got someone else to post the teaser on here instead of doing it themselves I guess we are addicted!


----------



## Lee Blaske (Jul 19, 2018)

Does BT have a middle name/initial?


----------



## Lee Blaske (Jul 19, 2018)

Could that be a photo of Philip Glass?


----------



## Lee Blaske (Jul 19, 2018)

Googling Philip Glass and Spitfire Audio yields some results. They might be up to something with him.


----------



## JonAdamich (Jul 19, 2018)

I get a Verdi vibe from the image,though I doubt it. 







It doesn't correlates to the audio...


----------



## robgb (Jul 19, 2018)

Sounds nice. They really seem to be going for the soft and subtle sound these days.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Jul 19, 2018)

The teaser sounds like it's all clarinets.


----------



## studiostuff (Jul 19, 2018)

Looks like Gin-gah Baker to me... 

JK 

Gin-gah doesn't looks that good.


----------



## ism (Jul 19, 2018)

Maybe Albion VI: at the edge of clarinets

Just guessing


----------



## kriskrause (Jul 19, 2018)

I’m guessing the T stands for Toolkit, so who’s BD?


----------



## StillLife (Jul 19, 2018)

My guess (which I picked up at the comments to the youtube clip): Bryce Dessner Toolkit.


----------



## ism (Jul 19, 2018)

Or maybe, does anyone know BT's middle name? Any chance it's Dave, or maybe Derek? It is possible he plays clarinet?


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Jul 19, 2018)

PaulBrimstone said:


> Looks a bit like Arvo Pärt, maybe. But I would prefer Moondog!


I agree, it does look a bit like Arvo. Maybe. But I can't make a fit for BDT.
As for the acronym (if indeed it is an acronym), might the "T" stand for Toolkit a la Bernard Herrmann? Perhaps? The other option I thought of is that the "T" is for Tundra (an extension for Albion V perhaps?).


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Jul 19, 2018)

kriskrause said:


> I’m guessing the T stands for Toolkit, so who’s BD?


You beat me to it. Had trouble connecting to VI-C server at the moment. Anyone else?


----------



## Jdiggity1 (Jul 19, 2018)

British (de)composer Toolkit?


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Jul 19, 2018)

Jdiggity1 said:


> British (de)composer Toolkit?


Compos(t)ing eh? I'm all for a more sustainable way of life.


----------



## zolhof (Jul 19, 2018)




----------



## MaxOctane (Jul 19, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> Could that be a photo of Philip Glass?



It is absolutely not PG.


----------



## HBen (Jul 19, 2018)

Another Bernard Derpmann Toolkit.


----------



## MisterLarbert (Jul 19, 2018)

Burkhard Dallwitz, maybe? Worked on the Truman Show soundtrack with Philip Glass...


----------



## Aleela (Jul 19, 2018)

BMarianelli Dario Toolkit


----------



## kavinsky (Jul 19, 2018)

theres always something new from spitfire audio.


----------



## star.keys (Jul 19, 2018)

I'm not buying any spitfire libraries until I hear some real user demos. Not falling for any rumours and hype.


----------



## Henu (Jul 19, 2018)

That's how it should go in 90% of the cases anyway.


----------



## Geoff Grace (Jul 20, 2018)

kriskrause said:


> I’m guessing the T stands for Toolkit, so who’s BD?


B.D.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## europa_io (Jul 20, 2018)

Is it maybe a Harmonium of some kind? Maybe BDT indicates which stops are pulled out?


----------



## Loïc D (Jul 20, 2018)

*B*oris [*D*]johnson *T*oolkit 

(ft. a brand new wordbuilder engine that will be included in the forthcoming Whitacre library)
(and brand new EVO Grunt)


----------



## Tice (Jul 20, 2018)

Brutally Distorted Trumpets? :D


----------



## MaxOctane (Jul 20, 2018)

Closing out the Scandi theme, it's the 

*Burja Durja Turja Toolkit*


----------



## josephwmorgan (Jul 20, 2018)

Based on their latest YouTube "Quick Tip" video, I'd say it looks like British Drama Toolkit. Should be cool!


----------



## TimCox (Jul 20, 2018)

josephwmorgan said:


> Based on their latest YouTube "Quick Tip" video, I'd say it looks like British Drama Toolkit. Should be cool!



You cracked the case!


----------



## PaulBrimstone (Jul 20, 2018)

josephwmorgan said:


> Based on their latest YouTube "Quick Tip" video, I'd say it looks like British Drama Toolkit. Should be cool!


Hawkeye! Very well spotted. As if there isn't enough drama around here already...
So it’s either a library for quirky Henson-esque TV scores, or a tongue-in-cheek pre-release codename.


----------



## Michael Antrum (Jul 20, 2018)

You are all wrong, it is the new Bobby Davro Toolkit.

Apparently they have sampled Bobby Davro at sixteen different velocities.

It's true.


----------



## D Halgren (Jul 20, 2018)

josephwmorgan said:


> Based on their latest YouTube "Quick Tip" video, I'd say it looks like British Drama Toolkit. Should be cool!


That kind of detective work should have won you a free copy! Bravo!


----------



## jamwerks (Jul 20, 2018)

josephwmorgan said:


> Based on their latest YouTube "Quick Tip" video, I'd say it looks like British Drama Toolkit. Should be cool!


A free library for that man!


----------



## Parsifal666 (Jul 20, 2018)

zolhof said:


>



That's a great one, but I for one am more than ready for the _*Jerry Goldsmith Composer Toolkit*_!


----------



## MillsMixx (Jul 20, 2018)

Woodwind Swarm


josephwmorgan said:


> Based on their latest YouTube "Quick Tip" video, I'd say it looks like British Drama Toolkit. Should be cool!



Wow! Good catch man! Any ideas on what that might include guys?
Definitely heard some popping bassoon-esque instruments in the teaser. Toolkits are pretty well rounded obviously. Not sure what a British kit would entail, but both the Olafur and Herrmann kits were uniquely sprinkled with a bit of everything, or, might be sort of like a new Albion maybe? Hmmmm


----------



## Parsifal666 (Jul 20, 2018)

N.Caffrey said:


> They release so many libraries! One after the other..



The market is here.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 21, 2018)




----------



## N.Caffrey (Jul 21, 2018)

muziksculp said:


>



So, who's the fella?


----------



## PaulBrimstone (Jul 21, 2018)

N.Caffrey said:


> So, who's the fella?


My money is on Flt. Sgt. Wiley Bunce.


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 21, 2018)

No clue who's the fella. 

Did they announce when this new mysterious library will be released ?


----------



## rocking.xmas.man (Jul 21, 2018)

are we hearing air lyndhurst here? At least the recordings seem to be really close mic'd


----------



## Will Wilson (Jul 23, 2018)

They've not announced when the announcement will be yet......


----------



## fretti (Jul 23, 2018)

Will Wilson said:


> They've not announced when the announcement will be yet......


----------



## Will Wilson (Jul 23, 2018)

fretti said:


>



Yeah just got an email announcing that they will be making an announcement?


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 23, 2018)

Got the email as well. 

So, they will announce something about this on *Thursday July 26th , 5:00 PM BST.*


----------



## fretti (Jul 23, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Got the email as well.
> 
> So, they will announce something about this on *Thursday July 26th , 5:00 PM BST.*


Wait, so is what we're doing now an announcement of the announcement that announces the announcement?


----------



## Will Wilson (Jul 23, 2018)

fretti said:


> Wait, so is what we're doing now an announcement of the announcement that announces the announcement?



See what you've done there is made it silly. This is an announcement about the announcement they have made about an announcement.


----------



## Alex Niedt (Jul 23, 2018)

Will Wilson said:


> They've not announced when the announcement will be yet......


I thought of this post and laughed out loud when I received the email this morning


----------



## thereus (Jul 23, 2018)

It’s not going to be a common or garden announcement. It’s special.


----------



## N.Caffrey (Jul 23, 2018)

I wonder, given the different people in the videos, if it's not something they did with a band, or a small collective of talented people who are famous for drama.


----------



## Geoff Grace (Jul 23, 2018)

N.Caffrey said:


> I wonder, given the different people in the videos, if it's not something they did with a band, or a small collective of talented people who are famous for drama.


In other words, temperamental divas?



Best,

Geoff


----------



## antonyb (Jul 23, 2018)

I think it's "British Drama Toolkit"? Check Oly's screen at 0:34 (gotta zoom a bit)


----------



## thereus (Jul 24, 2018)

I haven’t been watching the Christian Henson YouTubes for a while. What happened to his plan to very openly show the process of creating his personal library? Is this it?


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Jul 24, 2018)

mikeybabes said:


> You are all wrong, it is the new Bobby Davro Toolkit.
> 
> Apparently they have sampled Bobby Davro at sixteen different velocities.
> 
> It's true.


gets a bit ropey at maximum velocity


----------



## Musicam (Jul 24, 2018)

Its like Pixar that presents the characters (in this case a new library) in a movie because the character (the new library) is in the next movie!


----------



## muziksculp (Jul 25, 2018)

Looking forward to tomorrow's announcement of *BDT (British Drama Toolkit)*, this sounds very interesting to me. 

Hopefully it is very complementing to SA's existing libraries.


----------



## LamaRose (Jul 25, 2018)

Something new? Like a 7-day demo?


----------



## Hanu_H (Jul 26, 2018)

Isn't it funny how Spitfire has for years told everyone that recording libraries in a famous hall like Air Lyndhyrst is a lot better than recording in a studio? And now they record in their own studio instead of Air?

Listened some demos and the walkthrough and I am not really impressed. Seems like a really focused library, one trick pony I would say. Might be a good tool for inspiration but I don't see any use for it in a final product.

-Hannes


----------



## aaronventure (Jul 26, 2018)

Hanu_H said:


> And now they record in their own studio instead of Air?



Cheaper + immediate. You don't have to pay and wait for your slot in the recording space, and then sync up all the involved parties. You can just go "Hey, I have an idea! I want to record this and that!". You pick up the phone, you call your friend who plays whatever and ask him when's he free/in town. 

If I was paying 5 figures for a hall, god knows how much for the players and the engineer, then spending months putting the library together, I too would be telling you that everything I've done is brilliant.

Recording in a great sounding space is nothing short of amazing. Sampling is too, if you don't plan to do much with these samples except play them out as they are and just skip to the release tail when you release a note. 

Sampling and then trying to make it sound good while playing fast notes and doing fast crossfades is where it gets really, _really _ugly.


----------



## ism (Jul 26, 2018)

And an artistic choice also: SCS make eminently good (artistic) sense in AIR. LCO make eminently good (artistic) sense in a drier setting. 

But it's an interesting question if there's an artistic, as opposed to merely a pragmatic, justification for this not being recorded in AIR.


I would actually kind of like this to have been recorded in AIR (and would have been willing to pay commensurately more). Which would make more like the Olafur Chamber evolutions on the spectrum of textural libraries.

But having played with it for maybe an hour, it's definitely rawer sound than something like OACE. And I really like this quality (which, now that I thin about it, is roughly the entire point of the library). So I'm starting to think that maybe it makes good sense to think of in more towards LCO end of the spectrum for textural libraries.

Of course, Ideally I'd like one of each - dry, and again AIR. Although I think I would say that about every library.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Jul 26, 2018)

Demos sound really good. Lots of nice emotional content.


----------



## prodigalson (Jul 26, 2018)

Hanu_H said:


> Isn't it funny how Spitfire has for years told everyone that recording libraries in a famous hall like Air Lyndhyrst is a lot better than recording in a studio? And now they record in their own studio instead of Air?
> 
> Listened some demos and the walkthrough and I am not really impressed. Seems like a really focused library, one trick pony I would say. Might be a good tool for inspiration but I don't see any use for it in a final product.
> 
> -Hannes



its funny cos, the way I look at it, it does surprisingly more than I would have expected considering the price. at $149 it's similarly priced to many developers libraries that are simply a single instrument. And significantly cheaper than libraries that are well-loved around these parts that actually are one trick ponies. (e.g. a name that rhymes with schmadventure mass).

Also, Spitfire has been releasing commercial libraries recorded in their own studio for years. and yet still, the majority of their libraries released this year were recorded at AIR Lyndhurst.


----------



## richhickey (Jul 27, 2018)

I dread the raft of identical sounding tracks likely to come from this and other similar libraries. I also resent the trend towards instant-gratification, no skills required music making. This has already happened in pop music where loop-based libraries and tools enabled non-musicians to become 'producers'. There's nothing wrong with that per se, until it dominates the attention and effort of those who would otherwise have been making libraries and tools for musicians, which sadly has been the trend.

No doubt the market of consumers who want to easily 'construct' music is substantially larger than the market of actual musicians. So all this is inevitable. But I can't help laughing at the videos where people using this and similar libs wiggle their fingers on the keys and contort their bodies in expressive gestures completely disconnected from the evolution of the sound, which was triggered by a switch. It's precisely the same as those videos of people triggering loops with a Monome. At least it has some velocity control, I guess. Sigh.


----------



## NoamL (Jul 27, 2018)

I like the library. It does remind me of that joke about "if the next Spitfire library was recorded in a bathroom, everyone would start saying how bathrooms are the next big thing in film music." I doubt another developer could release a library with EWQLSO-style velocity triggered dynamics, no modwheel and no legato transition samples and get this kind of rave review. On the other hand, the price is great, the number of different ensembles & articulations is great, the individual samples sound very nice, and the balancing of the different layers by velocity sensitivity alone.... well.... It's a counterintuitive innovation but it does seem to actually work! The limitation here is that this is _really_ targeted at writing a particular kind of music. Emotional intimate studio strings and winds where the writing is based on slow harmonies and evolving suspensions. Spitfire have done _a lot_ of libs in that artistic direction. This library is maybe an interesting buy for people who already use Sable, LCO, and the Evos every day in their work.


----------



## aaronventure (Jul 27, 2018)

Spitfire will not make legato patches for similar libraries. Or any other new library that isn't something new (like a choir, since they haven't done that), a new version or an update for their products. Because it's bad for business.

Take a look at the Hermann library. They essentially recorded an entire studio orchestra, but instead of giving you full control by letting you play individual instruments and sections, they're pre-packaged into pairs and combinations.

If they had actually done that and released them all separately, as well as included legato for all patches, they would make their entire €1700 Symphonic range redundant. People in the market for an orchestra could just buy Hermann and be happy. It would sure as hell play better than the Symphony Orchestra because it's dry. But this way, you can get a _slice _of a studio orchestra, but still have to drop €1700 if you want individual instruments (which are again not individual).

They don't want to include legatos for woodwinds and solo strings in this library, because then you might buy _just _this library (maybe now priced at €250 because of extra content and work - but don't overshoot it, they're a business releasing multiple libraries every year, they have a framework and scripting them is anything but starting from scratch). So they're not actually making additional €100 because of legatos, they're losing money since you now don't need their new Solo Strings library or their flagship Woodwinds library.

If you go through all of their walkthrough videos and take note of the content, you'll notice that their business is nicely planned out. They have very little overlap in content between different libraries, and that's precisely the goal.

You'll see legato patches for woodwinds when they decide to upgrade their Woodwinds library. Same goes for strings and brass. And that will happen once they think that most of their potential customers have bought them, so that they can then re-release them and sell them again.

Nothing terrible, unethical or hellish going on here. Just standard business practices.


----------



## devonmyles (Jul 27, 2018)

mikeybabes said:


> You are all wrong, it is the new Bobby Davro Toolkit.
> 
> Apparently they have sampled Bobby Davro at sixteen different velocities.
> 
> It's true.



I hope not. I was Bassist in his band back in the 90's. I had over five years of his velocity levels...

Haha...He was a top lad and excellent singer.


----------



## yhomas (Jul 27, 2018)

aaronventure said:


> Spitfire will not make legato patches for similar libraries.



Spitfire has enough other positive aspects that they can afford to be behind the curve on legato—but this can’t last forever. There will come a time when great legato is a required item for any library release.


----------



## Emmanuel Rousseau (Jul 27, 2018)

+1 for what @aaronventure said, I would also add that having legato for that kind or library (intented to be played live with both hands) would probably be quite a challenge on a technical point of view.

That would be polyphonic legato, and it's probably a lot more difficult to set up than a legato designed to play a monophonic line (which is already quite challenging to do well).


----------



## lucianogiacomozzi (Jul 27, 2018)

I think the focus on textures is strange... I have a few of the libraries like that but then I started hiring musicians to make my own personal texture sample libraries and I think it is money better spent, plus I learn something every time!


----------



## Tice (Jul 27, 2018)

I get the feeling this library is more about making composing easier than about providing new 'colors' for our pallet. I could be wrong though. Being the control-freak that I am, it currently doesn't appeal to me. But this might change if I learn more about it.


----------



## ctsai89 (Jul 27, 2018)

Isn't this the same as masse?


----------



## ism (Jul 27, 2018)

lucianogiacomozzi said:


> I think the focus on textures is strange... I have a few of the libraries like that but then I started hiring musicians to make my own personal texture sample libraries and I think it is money better spent, plus I learn something every time!



Curious - how did you learn to write this kind of texture for live musicians? Were libraries like this helpful, or do you just have to have the experience working with live musicians?


----------



## The Darris (Jul 27, 2018)

ctsai89 said:


> Isn't this the same as masse?


Not remotely. Far from it actually.


----------



## lucianogiacomozzi (Jul 27, 2018)

ism said:


> Curious - how did you learn to write this kind of texture for live musicians? Were libraries like this helpful, or do you just have to have the experience working with live musicians?



So for me, I think it was Scary Strings that started it and a video Christian did about a string library he did months ago; I gathered a group of musicians I know and am friendly with and we just did a run of little strange longs, phrases, ideas and such, it evolved from there. I think these libraries helped as a starting point and to demonstrate what sound initially, but the bulk came more of bouncing ideas and they tend to understand even if you are not too technical, like me!


----------



## ism (Jul 27, 2018)

x


lucianogiacomozzi said:


> So for me, I think it was Scary Strings that started it and a video Christian did about a string library he did months ago; I gathered a group of musicians I know and am friendly with and we just did a run of little strange longs, phrases, ideas and such, it evolved from there. I think these libraries helped as a starting point and to demonstrate what sound initially, but the bulk came more of bouncing ideas and they tend to understand even if you are not too technical, like me!



Cool. That sounds like fun, and hmm, maybe something I'd aspire to attempt myself someday.

But I also love they way we're getting access to all these different artists take on the concept of 'wonk textures'. 

Have you any demos of how your experiments came out?


----------



## lucianogiacomozzi (Jul 27, 2018)

ism said:


> x
> 
> 
> Cool. That sounds like fun, and hmm, maybe something I'd aspire to attempt myself someday.
> ...



It's tremendous fun, really also teaches you much but I'd recommend sharing the task, bill and finished product with other composers if you have some - it reduces expense and also gets another take.

I have some demos laying around for choral textures we did but I will get permission from the other composer I worked with before I share anything exposed - I will PM you them once we are in agreement!


----------



## mc_deli (Jul 27, 2018)

The public gets what the public wants.

4/5 posts on here are asking for short cuts.

Easy sell.

Meanwhile those that can actually compose will carry on.

Very tempting for me as I am a sh*te composer needing short cuts!


----------



## NYC Composer (Jul 28, 2018)

This is my third SFA library. I have Albion 1 which I rarely use and am “eh” about, SCS which I absolutely love, and now this.

BDT does what it does well. If you want to create instant moving wallpaper, you can do that (although it’s hard to control velocity in a single patch-I think multiple layers make it easier. Even Christian during the walkthrough struggled there.) I created a track in about an hour that accomplished this well enough.

However, where I think the strength of it will lie (for me at least) is in using the non-static pad elements as a backdrop and adding other instruments to create more of a composition. Within my first attempt I was definitely moved to add stuff to the backdrop...also the assignment I was working at needed an extra few elements.

It’s a one trick pony, however I think the trick is a pretty good one and ultimately useful.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 28, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> it’s hard to control velocity in a single patch-I think multiple layers make it easier. Even Christian during the walkthrough struggled there.


Quick question: within a single range, let's say soft for example, does it play the same soft patch a little louder/quieter depending on velocity?


----------



## NYC Composer (Jul 28, 2018)

Depends on the patch, but there are often three velocity layers-one for soft movement, one for more fullness, and the top layer for solo instrument to penetrate.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Jul 28, 2018)

I'm sure there's a way to deal with it, but for me on many of the patches, it would be nice to be able to adjust the volume of the loud layer and bring it down a bit. As the presets come up, the loud layer can really stick out, and oftentimes it's a brighter sound that has no problem standing out, anyway. It might be nice if the "loud" layer could have its own assignable expression control on the main GUI page.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 28, 2018)

Lets say you're playing different velocities, but both triggering Loud. (See image.) Is it the same patch but different volume? Same patch, same volume? Round robin? Thanks.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 28, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> I'm sure there's a way to deal with it, but for me on many of the patches, it would be nice to be able to adjust the volume of the loud layer and bring it down a bit. As the presets come up, the loud layer can really stick out, and oftentimes it's a brighter sound that has no problem standing out, anyway. It might be nice if the "loud" layer could have its own assignable expression control on the main GUI page.


I believe the patches can be controlled by the "expression" cc, which is really just the volume. Paul Thomson does it toward the end of the walkthrough.


EDIT: Apologies, I should read more closely. I don't think there's a way to adjust expression on the Loud without adjusting the overall volume of everything, as you said.


----------



## yhomas (Jul 28, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> I believe the patches can be controlled by the "expression" cc, which is really just the volume. Paul Thomson does it toward the end of the walkthrough.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Apologies, I should read more closely. I don't think there's a way to adjust expression on the Loud without adjusting the overall volume of everything, as you said.




It should be possible to set things up with a midi filter that puts the high velocities onto one track and the low velocities onto another track.


----------



## Quasar (Jul 28, 2018)

Anyone: What is "wallpaper" music? I can sort of guess, but I never heard the term until quite recently.


----------



## quantum7 (Jul 28, 2018)

I like it! Just like 8dio, do the folks at Spitfire EVER sleep?


----------



## Lee Blaske (Jul 28, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Lets say you're playing different velocities, but both triggering Loud. (See image.) Is it the same patch but different volume? Same patch, same volume? Round robin? Thanks.





yhomas said:


> It should be possible to set things up with a midi filter that puts the high velocities onto one track and the low velocities onto another track.



That's true, but that would defeat the play-it-all-at-once in realtime feature of it. If you were going to split things out, you could select any other sample library as the solo voice.


----------



## NYC Composer (Jul 28, 2018)

It takes an extra ten minutes to split it out, and it’s a worthwhile investment of time.


----------



## Land of Missing Parts (Jul 28, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> That's true, but that would defeat the play-it-all-at-once in realtime feature of it. If you were going to split things out, you could select any other sample library as the solo voice.







Question about the attached image: See how there's two notes in the Loud section, one toward the top and one toward the bottom (I drew arrows next to them). Are they both going to play the exact same volume?


----------



## yhomas (Jul 29, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> That's true, but that would defeat the play-it-all-at-once in realtime feature of it. If you were going to split things out, you could select any other sample library as the solo voice.



I’m imagining one could still do it in real time, recording simultaneously on two tracks with a midi filter set up on both tracks such that one track gets all the notes below a certain velocity, whereas the other track gets the notes above the certain velocity. Alternatively, this could presumably be done after the fact. Either way, once it’s split out, one can apply appropriate expression controls to the separate parts as appropriate. 

Of course, it would probably make sense for the GUI mod wheel to have been assigned to expression for only the top layer.


----------



## angeruroth (Jul 29, 2018)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Question about the attached image: See how there's two notes in the Loud section, one toward the top and one toward the bottom (I drew arrows next to them). Are they both going to play the exact same volume?


Sadly no. I love the lib so far, but I need to find a way to keep every note at the same or similar volume. I may have miss something in the manual..


----------



## Geoff Grace (Jul 30, 2018)

The video reviews are starting to be posted. Here's one from Geoff Manchester:




(_Spoiler alert: he likes it._)

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Garry (Jul 30, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> The video reviews are starting to be posted. Here's one from Geoff Manchester:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, really like it with Chamber Evolutions. I’d been wondering how people felt about the difference between the evolutions that you get with these 2 libraries, but he does a nice job here of showing how well they blend.

Interesting also that he praises Spitfire for the "instant gratification" of this library. On another thread, people have criticised the apparently increasing need amongst users for instant gratification. On the contrary, he makes the point that on this, 'everything I play sounds good'! Quite right - and what's so wrong with that?


----------



## NYC Composer (Jul 30, 2018)

Not legato.


----------



## SoNowWhat? (Jul 30, 2018)

...hmmm. I had also not bothered about OA's chamber evo's until now.

Damn it Spitfire!!


----------



## Rob Elliott (Jul 31, 2018)

NYC Composer said:


> This is my third SFA library. I have Albion 1 which I rarely use and am “eh” about, SCS which I absolutely love, and now this.
> 
> BDT does what it does well. If you want to create instant moving wallpaper, you can do that (although it’s hard to control velocity in a single patch-I think multiple layers make it easier. Even Christian during the walkthrough struggled there.) I created a track in about an hour that accomplished this well enough.
> 
> ...


Spot on assessment - now having purchased and played. Exactly how I will use it for current gig. This 'pony' is well worth the $150 investment.


----------



## Quasar (Jul 31, 2018)

ka00 said:


> OA Chamber waves and BDT sound like a winning combo.


I agree. Nice video (I subscribe to his excellent YT channel) and it sort of had the effect of putting OA on my radar screen maybe...

...But IMO the broader point isn't about OA, but about how BDT can be used to augment, provide fluidity & motion to give extra life to other libraries in perhaps a variety of different ways depending on the library.

I purchased this yesterday and am not in any way disappointed. No surprises after watching the promo videos. I like that it's designed for two-handed piano playing, and - given its limitations - I like everything about it for the price.

The adjustable velocity curve options are I think more important for BDT than they are for many other libraries that have them, since so much besides mere velocity depends on exactly how you strike the keys, and even for a piano player there's a bit of a learning curve for getting used to how the various patches respond, and playing to that.


----------



## rrichard63 (Aug 4, 2018)

This library is specific to one style -- "British drama" is as good a label as any. Does anyone suppose that it might be followed in time by an Action Thriller Toolkit, a Film Noir Toolkit, a Gritty Crime Drama Toolkit, a Romantic Comedy Toolkit ... you get the idea.


----------



## stixman (Aug 5, 2018)

Sound is cool....velocities look troublesome to control...still on the fence..will there be an update!


----------



## Geoff Grace (Aug 5, 2018)

stixman said:


> velocities look troublesome to control...


_"Well, Jane, it just goes to show you, it's always something — if it ain't one thing, it's another."_
– Roseanne Rosannadanna


Best,

Geoff


----------



## angeruroth (Aug 5, 2018)

My last experiment mixing BDT and Tundra:

I definetly like how both libs work together, but I'm also surprised about how it sounds with EWQLSO and with the Gypsy Violin (velocity sensitive libs are a good match, I guess).



rrichard63 said:


> This library is specific to one style -- "British drama" is as good a label as any. Does anyone suppose that it might be followed in time by an Action Thriller Toolkit, a Film Noir Toolkit, a Gritty Crime Drama Toolkit, a Romantic Comedy Toolkit ... you get the idea.


That may be the idea, but you can use the timbre of a lib, and its capabilities, in so many different ways... There are so many combinations...


----------



## Tice (Aug 5, 2018)

rrichard63 said:


> This library is specific to one style -- "British drama" is as good a label as any. Does anyone suppose that it might be followed in time by an Action Thriller Toolkit, a Film Noir Toolkit, a Gritty Crime Drama Toolkit, a Romantic Comedy Toolkit ... you get the idea.


I'm no marketing expert but I'd think that if you specialize that much, you vastly decrease the portion of the market interested in your product, so you either bump up the price, or you appeal to a larger market.


----------



## angeruroth (Aug 5, 2018)

I think in this case the name came after the lib. For me the key feature is the layering experiment, so It could be called Solo Layered Toolkit or something like that.
Anyway I hope they evolve the idea. Things like a cheap extensión for Tundra, using the same sounds, could change how we use the lib.


----------



## stixman (Aug 5, 2018)

?


Geoff Grace said:


> _"Well, Jane, it just goes to show you, it's always something — if it ain't one thing, it's another."_
> – Roseanne Rosannadanna
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Geoff Grace (Aug 5, 2018)

stixman said:


> ?


Just a callback to an old _Saturday Night Live_ routine. My feeble attempt at humor.

Gilda Radner's Roseanne Rosannadanna character always responded with non sequitur commentary (veering off into nonsensical territory) to serious issues during the Weekend Update segment. It struck me as funny to insert one of her typical responses into our conversation. Sorry for the confusion.

Best,

Geoff


----------



## Dr.Quest (Aug 5, 2018)

stixman said:


> ....velocities look troublesome to control...


And yet C. Henson seems to have no problem with it. Just sayin'.


----------



## sostenuto (Aug 5, 2018)

Hmmmm ……. target market segment gets fairly small if takes C. Henson's talent and equipment (keyboard controller)
to get those results.


----------



## pfmusic (Aug 5, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> Hmmmm ……. target market segment gets fairly small if takes C. Henson's talent and equipment (keyboard controller)
> to get those results.


Not at all...I'm getting some lovely new sounds after a few days of purchasing this. It does have a learning curve but that's the usual story with every library.

This partners up nice with Olafur Arnolds libraries, Tundra, Sacconi Quartet, as well as Joshua Bell violin.

There comes a time when you have to just bite the bullet if you like what you hear and buy. This is one beautiful library but that's my own opinion and suits the music I write.


----------



## sostenuto (Aug 5, 2018)

Comment was a bit 'tongue-in-cheek' to @ Dr.Quest post, and focused on Velocity Control ….. 
nothing to do with what I hear in BDT or what may work well with it.


----------



## smallberries (Aug 5, 2018)

Geoff Grace said:


> Geoff




Hate to be Debby Downer here (and I'll be buying BDT) but I didn't like anything I heard on that demo.


----------



## MillsMixx (Aug 5, 2018)

Truth be told I will probably only use this library at the texture and soft velocity levels which is where it really shines in my opinion, and save loud levels for legato from another library. It really seems to fit into the Evo, Tundra, and OA toolkit realm quite well.
Since I can't get enough soft beautiful texturesque style of libraries and welcome any opportunity to think outside the box this was a no brainer and instant buy for me. I've been quite happy with it so far and look forward to playing with it more this week.


----------



## dpasdernick (Aug 6, 2018)

I broke down and bought it. My 2 cents.

Pros: sounds lovely, does exactly what's advertised, it will be useful considering what I like to write, the price at $149 is a fair deal, nicely laid out, sounds depressing as hell in a good wa. Just like me. 

Cons: why are Spitfire libraries so quiet? I can barely hear the thing without cranking it. Same issue with Albion. Compared to Omnisphere which pretty much tears your head off, and Ark 2 which is also full of pretty quiet instruments, this library is a whisper. Totally understand it is not a big bang boomie but I can barely hear it.

the velocity thing is going to take some getting used to. I just got a new 88 key weighted controller and it's like playing 2x4's. Not Spitfire's problem but I will need to finesse.

I wish Spitfire's interfaces were sexier. Decent layout and nice little help pop-up but the overall look and feel is a tad meh.

I wish there was more.


----------



## MaxOctane (Aug 7, 2018)

dpasdernick said:


> Cons: why are Spitfire libraries so quiet? I can barely hear the thing without cranking it. Same issue with Albion. Compared to Omnisphere which pretty much tears your head off, and Ark 2 which is also full of pretty quiet instruments, this library is a whisper. Totally understand it is not a big bang boomie but I can barely hear it.



All Spitfire libs ship at -6dB. I always give my volume CC slider a little wiggle to get it to 0dB.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Aug 7, 2018)

dpasdernick said:


> Cons: why are Spitfire libraries so quiet? I can barely hear the thing without cranking it. Same issue with Albion. Compared to Omnisphere which pretty much tears your head off, and Ark 2 which is also full of pretty quiet instruments, this library is a whisper. Totally understand it is not a big bang boomie but I can barely hear it.



Some of these libraries are really designed to be quiet. Certainly, you can crank the volume fader in Kontakt up a bit. But if you're trying to see a potent signal on your meters with this library, you might not be using the library in the intended context. Headroom is a good thing. Mixes with too many hot tracks end up sounding brittle.


----------



## Lee Blaske (Aug 7, 2018)

One more just-for-fun BDT demo... I used around eight tracks of BDT as the core of this, plus OA Chamber Waves. The piano is Una Corda. Some additional TC Electronic VSS3 Large Warm Hall verb. Healthy amount of Waves Kramer Tape plug-in on the master bus (I automate the noise level so it's not obvious when things are really quiet, and on fade-ins and fade-outs).


----------



## yhomas (Aug 7, 2018)

smallberries said:


> Hate to be Debby Downer here (and I'll be buying BDT) but I didn't like anything I heard on that demo.



I agree, but try this one instead:


----------



## dpasdernick (Aug 7, 2018)

MaxOctane said:


> All Spitfire libs ship at -6dB. I always give my volume CC slider a little wiggle to get it to 0dB.



Thank You. That would explain the Albion "quietness" too.


----------



## stixman (Aug 11, 2018)

edit...24 hours later it finally installed.


----------



## Saxer (Aug 11, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


>



Beautiful track!


----------



## sostenuto (Aug 11, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> One more just-for-fun BDT demo... I used around eight tracks of BDT as the core of this, plus OA Chamber Waves. The piano is Una Corda. Some additional TC Electronic VSS3 Large Warm Hall verb. Healthy amount of Waves Kramer Tape plug-in on the master bus (I automate the noise level so it's not obvious when things are really quiet, and on fade-ins and fade-outs).





Very cool track …. and helpful detail of added libs /fx. 
This put me over the top for purchase and provides some early context to start enjoying.

Many thanks!


----------



## smallberries (Aug 11, 2018)

Just got it installed and running. Played through a book of terrible piano arrangements of film themes on the main patch + a trumpet, and am just LMAO at all the drama coming out of my speakers with such little effort on my part (no, I'm not posting sound files, this sort of activity ought to remain in the privacy of one's home). 

Yeah, we're going to be hearing this thing everywhere.


----------



## CGR (Aug 12, 2018)

Lee Blaske said:


> One more just-for-fun BDT demo... I used around eight tracks of BDT as the core of this, plus OA Chamber Waves. The piano is Una Corda. Some additional TC Electronic VSS3 Large Warm Hall verb. Healthy amount of Waves Kramer Tape plug-in on the master bus (I automate the noise level so it's not obvious when things are really quiet, and on fade-ins and fade-outs).



Nice work Lee!


----------



## idematoa (Feb 17, 2019)

*01 - Spitfire Audio - BDT - Double Bass, Cello, Viola, Flute
02 - UVI - Falcon - Gravity*
*







*


----------



## idematoa (Feb 18, 2019)

*BDT : Violon + Viola + Cello + Bass Clarinet + Flute






*


----------

