# What are your favourite Brass Libraries then?



## jononotbono (Apr 6, 2019)

Just thought I'd ask what everyone's favourite Brass libraries are. I haven't bought as many Brass libraries as I have, for example, String libraries and I actually notice the lack of choice by having so few. My most recent purchase was EWHO and loving some of Hollywood Brass (haven't got through everything in it yet - the whole orchestra is huge in scope and choice). 

I haven't yet bought Cinematic Studio Brass (and definitely going to - just had other things to spend my money on) but I'm looking forward to it after buying CSS and CSSS and if they are anything to go by, I can only imagine it being amazing.

I also have had my eyes/ears on OT's Berlin Brass as I love the idea of separate players.

Also, wondering about Adventure Brass. And whether Cinebrass Pro is worth getting when I already have Cinebrass Core...

Man, there's a lot of choice and I haven't even mentioned them all. Just wondering what everyone is using at this point! And please, no arguing... Oh what am I saying. FIGHT...


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## jbuhler (Apr 6, 2019)

I've been very happy with Spitfire Symphonic Brass, supplemented with the brass from Metropolis Ark 1&2. I'm missing muted shorts and muted legato, and I use the muted brass ensemble patch from Inspire 1 for that right now.


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## ChrisSiuMusic (Apr 6, 2019)

My top choices:

1. CineBrass - perfect for the punchy superhero sound. 
2. Cinematic Studio Brass - a very warm tone, opens up beautifully with beautiful dynamic crossfading
3. Berlin Brass - sooo good at low dynamics, very noble in colour, surprisingly effective at loud shorts.


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## I like music (Apr 6, 2019)

CSB is superb. Amazing tone and dynamic cross fading excellent. 

Infinite Brass is also excellent. Lots of control over phrasing. Tone has a bit more to go, but I seem to be using it more than CSB at the moment.


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## wst3 (Apr 6, 2019)

Another case where one size does not fit all...

CineBrass Core - pretty much my starting point, largely because I've used it the longest, but the sound is lovely!

Cinematic Studio Brass - so incredibly flexible, probably covers more ground than any other.

Chris Hein Brass - a little more work in terms of programming, but sounds beautiful. Very good at up front parts.

Spirfire Studio Brass (basic) - just picked it up, but I'm really liking the sound. Still learning to use it.

That's for orchestral stuff. Berlin Brass sounds gorgeous in the demos, I own Ark 1 and 2 and there really is something magical about the sound of their libraries.

And of course all of the above are individual instruments and sections. I don't use ensembles often, but Spitfire, Project Sam, and Orchestral Tools ensemble libraries are really good when they fit.

For pop stuff I use Swing & Swing More, CH Horns, and I'm working on learning Glory.

There are a lot of brass libraries, and they all seem to do one or two things better than the rest.

If I had to limit myself to one it would be Cinebrass Core and Cinematic Studio Brass - I really couldn't choose just one<G>!


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## richardt4520 (Apr 6, 2019)

Still love Cinebrass Core/Pro for that baked in JW sound and it's my favorite. Forzo is great for more mellow/regal stuff and sound design. I had Auddict's Master Brass (with the update), which is actually pretty good, but it's on the mellow end and I have that covered pretty well so I sold it. EWHB has good horns and the trombones have a nice dynamic range from mellow up through blasting but Cinebrass does that better, imo, and there are looping issues with Tuba, which also sounds a little anemic. I have other stuff (8Dio, Adventure Brass, Caspian, etc) but Cinebrass beats it for me. For completely over the top, Trailer Brass is great. It's less realistic than Cinebrass, which can cover that ground if needed, but The Horde is as mean and fat as it gets.


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## VinRice (Apr 6, 2019)

Spitfire Studio Brass is a good workhorse, as it was designed to be. Lots of instruments and articulations. Occasional annoying tone difference between articulations (different player, different day?) although I've only used the stereo mixes so far so that needs checking in the individual mic sets.

Spitfire Symphonic is comprehensive and does its thing with the room but the sound can feel just a little old-fashioned. Some of it is quite noisy as well (eg Solo Horn)

Cinematic Studio Brass is excellent and a bit of a revelation. Less instruments and artics but fabulous consistent sound and proper FF's that really cut without being overblown. My go-to at the moment.

Of course if you really need to bring out the big guns then Met Ark 1 and 3 will deliver.

I'd love to have Forzo but that will have to wait until November I think.


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## Henning (Apr 6, 2019)

Have to mention Caspian here. It actually got a lot of love from recently. You can really create these absolutely belieble crescendos. Also best trombones I encountered.


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## prodigalson (Apr 6, 2019)

Just remember Audiobros Modern Scoring Brass is going to be released any day now. I heard a rumor about Monday...


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## OleJoergensen (Apr 6, 2019)

Ive used Hollywood brass for some years and liked it. After I bought Berlin brass I prefere that, it has such a beautiful tone.....


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## shawnsingh (Apr 6, 2019)

Yeah, another vote for Berlin brass. 

Here's a test track I had made. I layered a small bit of Glory Days trumpet and trombone near the very end, just to get that last bit of bite on some of the very long sustained notes, but actually most of the brassy sound is from the marcato long articulations of berlin brass.

http://suonlabs.com/copland-fanfare-OT.mp3


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## JeffvR (Apr 6, 2019)

I have CSB, Cinebrass (core+pro) and Berlin Brass. 
I'd absolutely go for CSB. Very consistent programming, great sound. Both beautiful at soft and loud dynamics. Cinebrass is a close second, Berlin Brass is nice because of the seperate players and awesome sound but the programming and dynamics are all over the place which makes it a pain to use. + It's super heavy for your computer. They've recorded DIFFERENT dynamics for each player, a philosophy I don't understand. Also check out: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/how-to-fix-berlin-brass.63516/


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## barteredbride (Apr 6, 2019)

Get Junkie XL Brass.


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## AllanH (Apr 6, 2019)

My two favorites
1) Hollywood brass
2) 8DIO Century Brass

I have others that I rarely use.


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## JF (Apr 6, 2019)

OleJoergensen said:


> Ive used Hollywood brass for some years and liked it. After I bought Berlin brass I prefere that, it has such a beautiful tone.....



Same section with CSB


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## Lassi Tani (Apr 6, 2019)

My vote goes to Audiobro MSB.


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## trumpoz (Apr 6, 2019)

My favourite brass instrument is SM Trombone. Incredibly expressive - takes some work to sit in a mix but well worth it.


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## constaneum (Apr 6, 2019)

Cinematic studio brass and Hollywood Brass.


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## Mucusman (Apr 6, 2019)

sekkosiki said:


> My vote goes to Audiobro MSB.



Well, I'll be voting with my wallet this year. Have held off on CSB until I can see/hear what MSB can do (just over a week to wait, it seems). I'll be picking up either one of the two.


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## Jacob Cadmus (Apr 6, 2019)

HWB + Caspian make Jakey a happy boi


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## Joe Totino (Apr 6, 2019)

I think Cinebrass PRO is a no brainer if you’re already using CORE. The monster low brass is excellent, plus all the solo instruments, improved legato on certain patches, and the FX. Gets a ton of use in my template!


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## Casiquire (Apr 6, 2019)

Antoher vote for Chris Hein. It completely overtook Hollywood Brass in my setup. It is dry, but i don't mind that. The results in an orchestral mix are really fantastic


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 6, 2019)

1. Berlin brass
----------------------
2a. Cinebrass
2b. Samplemodeling
2c. Arks 1-3
----------------------
3a. Angry Brass
3b. Caspian Brass
----------------------
4a. Adventure brass
4b. Hollywood Brass

I will say that working with any of these libraries involves learning their quirks. Sadly one criticism I hear from people who are unhappy with berlin brass is that it doesn't have enough bite… which is largely because of the way the library is programmed - it's honestly from an actual score point of view, and not a keyboard composer point of view.

the legatos(or even the sustains) are realistic dynamics for connected phrasing - as if there was actually a slur/legato marking.

in order to produce bite, you would need to phrase things using actual "short" articulations - like the marcatos, staccatos - ect. This is something that Mike Patti from cinesamples has expressed in the past, as well as mike verta in his brass masterclass. This in conjunction with being smart with the attack parameter is the best way to create convincing brass phrasing(this is also how to get energy out of the string library as well)

that and I think people forget about the ensemble patches(as well as the bells up patches for horn)

edit: split it into tiers, rather than a list. 

I would just say this: regardless of the brass library you have - DONT FORGET THE SHORT NOTES. This should be our bread and butter, not sustain patches if you want realistic phrasing - and as a plus, the extra dynamics are usually there, rather than trying to loop an impossible FFF breve


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## Tinesaeriel (Apr 6, 2019)

I don't own many Brass Libraries, but I'll try and list my favorites:

1: This is a tie between CineBrass (Core + Pro) and Cinematic Studio Brass. I find that they complement each other extremely well and help cover each others' weakenesses. 

Cinematic Studio Brass is outstanding for your really loud or punchy lines, and also for passages that alternate quickly between shorts and sustains. Despite the limited ensemble sizes, the horns, trumpets, and tenor trombones can sound perfectly sized. It's the low brass where this library is really disappointing, in my eyes. It's great for bumbling, tumbling, flighty Williams-esque writing, but for anything loud and biting and overwhelming, this ain't it: it sounds way too small. 

This is where CineBrass comes in. It is overall mellower and softer in tone and dynamics than CSB, and sometimes, I end up preferring using this for supporting chords in an orchestration over CSB, because sometimes CSB doesn't get as mellow as I want. The solo horn legato in Core is an especially good example of this - the sound is just superb. CineBrass also does low brass exceptionally well. It is loud and punchy and sounds just big enough in Core, and in Pro, with the Monster Low Brass ensemble, it sounds absolutely huge, and you can really get some incredible blasts and stabs that you just can't do with CSB. 

2: Hollywood Brass. This is a close second for me. The horns and trumpets are old favorites of mine, it's just that the way the articulations is organized isn't as intuitive for my workflow as it used to be, but I definitely still love using the legatos and shorts sometimes. 

3. Metropolis Ark 1 & 2: I don't use these as much, mainly because, like HWB, I find Capsule's articulation manager a little cumbersome for my workflow anymore, but they definitely still hold up, and they're a great option for me to have handy. You can get absolutely huge sounding lines and chords out of Ark 1, and really soft and pretty lines out of Ark 2. They're complement each other so well. 

4. Symphony Series Brass Ensemble: I don't use this one at all anymore, mainly because there's too much reverb baked in, and the articulations aren't as consistent as I'd want them to be.


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 6, 2019)

I suspect I'd put CSB on part with cinebrass if I had it. 

different programming, different strengths... but all in all - cinebrass just has killer tone(as does berlin) track down isn't terrible, I just prefer sony stage a lot more(and I prefer teldex above that, because it has a darkness/smoothness that I like)


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## kevthurman (Apr 6, 2019)

I too am waiting for MSB (estimated for April 15th according to the website) before I decide between either that or CSB. None of the others seem flexible, consistent, or realistic enough to make the cut for me. Even some aspects of CSB fall flat for me.


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## Kadirally (Apr 6, 2019)

Forzo by Heavyocity.
I'm enjoying the low brass sections. The wonderful aleatoric/performance patches like 'waves' etc. are a huge plus. Pristine sound-quality - recorded at Skywalker Ranch.
Sadly no legato patches.


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## OleJoergensen (Apr 7, 2019)

JF said:


> Same section with CSB



It sound good as well, even it is quite dry.
Re-listening to my example, I can hear I didn't pay much attention to breathing. The musician must have looked blue faced...... :-/
I must redo it one day.


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## zimm83 (Apr 7, 2019)

Metropolis ark 1-4 + Heavyocity Forzo.


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## Brian Nowak (Apr 7, 2019)

I actually struggle with Cinebrass core/pro. Great tone. But push the instruments just a hair outside their comfort zone and the illusion breaks down, especially in any exposed writing. Tuning issues, dynamic limitations, and many rough notes throughout. I regularly think about removing them from my hard drive so I stop trying to muck about with them. 

My experience with CSB has been a lot better. Quite flexible. Consistent. Easier to shape phrases to my needs rather than write phrases to the library's capabilities. The only big issue I have is that once Logic projects reach a certain size I get a lot of hanging notes. Annoying but not impossible to work with.


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## Akarin (Apr 7, 2019)

I have tons of brass libs but CSB mostly replaced all of them except Forzo when I need a more sound-designy lib.


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## kevthurman (Apr 7, 2019)

Kadirally said:


> Forzo by Heavyocity.
> I'm enjoying the low brass sections. The wonderful aleatoric/performance patches like 'waves' etc. are a huge plus. Pristine sound-quality - recorded at Skywalker Ranch.
> Sadly no legato patches.


Lack of legato is a deal breaker for me. I probably use that more than any other patches.


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## gjelul (Apr 8, 2019)

sekkosiki said:


> My vote goes to Audiobro MSB.



Is this out yet?


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## kevthurman (Apr 8, 2019)

gjelul said:


> Is this out yet?


estimated to release in a week. (april 15)


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## PeterKorcek (Apr 8, 2019)

Cinebrass can be nice when you tamed the instrument - can be difficult in controlling the final output and need a lot of massaging sometimes.
Ark 1 Brass is kick-ass, instant epicness and power
Did not have time to fully evaluate CSB


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## benmrx (Apr 8, 2019)

I just checked out the page over at Audiobro for their upcoming brass library and I'm _really stoked_ on the general layout of instruments and articulations. Very much looking forward to getting more info on that library.


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## arcy (Apr 8, 2019)

I like VSL. Very consistent and versatile.


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## gjelul (Apr 8, 2019)

kevthurman said:


> estimated to release in a week. (april 15)



Oh, I see. So, you already like the sound of it 
(jk)

Same here though, looking forward to checking this one out when realeased.


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## AR (Apr 8, 2019)

The Brass in Ark 4 is very epic and can be very subtle. I bought Caspian recently but couldn't share the love for it as others do here. OT Berlin Brass is good, too. But it's a little bit too clean for me compared to the Ark Brass. Ark has that "real" situation thing where you have instrument combinations that composers normally choose when composing. Kinda like Spitfire Albion series, but I parted with Spitfire since they don't reinvent theirselves anymore.


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## BeneJ (Apr 11, 2019)

I bought the 8Dio Century Brass bundle partly because of their proud inclusion of muted articulations (even 2 different types of muted, in some cases) for all instruments, just like their Century Sordinos library. Perfect, it’s worth having just for that! It was only after I installed it that I realised: no legatos on the muted versions. So, not like Century Sordino then.

Not including Vienna Symphonic, can anyone recommend any muted brass libraries with full legato transitions?


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## IdealSequenceG (Apr 23, 2019)

I also like the Spitfire Symphonic Brass, which has both Detache Legato and Normal Legato.


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## constaneum (Apr 23, 2019)

before CSB, i actually wanted to grab SSB. SSB sounds pretty good. it's one of spitfire's best libraries ever made besides the chamber strings.


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## Apostate (Apr 23, 2019)

Hollywood and Ark 1. Iceni has killer brass too, though all low.


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## re-peat (Apr 23, 2019)

constaneum said:


> SSB sounds pretty good. it's one of spitfire's best libraries ever made besides the chamber strings.



No, it isn't, trust me. It is, in my opinion, actually one of their worst (together with the two other embarassements that make up the Studio Series). An opinion, that is, based on weeks and weeks of terribly frustrating experiences with the pro version of what I quickly came to consider an offensively sub-standard threesome.

Very mediocre recordings, the lack of essential samples being clumsily masked with blunt trickery, instruments many of which are completely incapable to speak the language of music expressively, sloppy programming and a disturbing amount of samples that even a home-based amateur developer wouldn't dare to include in his/her product. Here's http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/SSB_FrenchHrn2_Legato.mp3 (an example).

Spitfire's Studio Series consists of three libraries that give new meaning to the term 'rigor mortis'. With sample libraries, there's always a degree of rigor mortis that you have to struggle with, and I don't mind — in fact, I quite like the challenge — but in Spitfire's Studio Series that all-pervading feeling of of petrified death is so bad and so paralyzing, that there is just no hope of ever emerging from the struggle victoriously. Awful. Truly awful.

Anyone ever heard anything good done with any of these three libraries? I mean, genuinely Spitfirishly good? I haven't. And we never will, because it's impossible.

_


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## ProfoundSilence (Apr 23, 2019)

Piet they might be referring to spitfire symphonic brass, which I don't like particularly - but I think if I had to pick one of the two, lol.


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## constaneum (Apr 23, 2019)

re-peat said:


> No, it isn't, trust me. It's actually one of their worst (together with the two other embarassements that make up the Studio Series) in my opinion. An opinion, that is, based on weeks and weeks of terribly frustrating experiences with the pro version of what I quickly came consider an offensively sub-standard threesome.
> 
> Very mediocre recordings, the lack of essential samples being clumsily masked with blunt trickery, instruments many of which are completely incapable to speak the language of music expressively, sloppy programming and a disturbing amount of samples that even a home-based amateur developer wouldn't dare to include in his/her product. Here's http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/SSB_FrenchHrn2_Legato.mp3 (an example).
> 
> ...



i'm indeed referring to the symphonic brass. i never like the studio series.


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## re-peat (Apr 23, 2019)

Damn those pesky abbreviations. Damn their britches.

_


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## jononotbono (Apr 24, 2019)

Yeah the abbreviations are ridiculous at this point. I mean what’s SSS at this point? Symphonic Strings? Studio Strings? Solo Strings? Very handy for template nomenclature.

I’ve not bought any of the Spitfire Studio Series so it’s interesting to hear your thoughts Piet.

Since starting this thread, MSB (Audio Bro’s Modern scoring Brass) hadn’t been released yet. I’m very curious about that. So curious that I think MSB and CSB (Cinematic Studio Brass) will be my next Brass purchases.


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## kessel (Apr 24, 2019)

I've heard very good comments from the fable sounds broadway brasses from a friend who owns them.

https://fablesounds.com

They sound good to me too but I'm not a very big fan of brasses either way, I only own the Output ones because I got the whole product bundle from them once it was in sale.


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## Rodney Money (Apr 24, 2019)

re-peat said:


> Here's http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/SSB_FrenchHrn2_Legato.mp3 (an example).


That was wonderfully painful. I'm proud of myself for making it through.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Apr 24, 2019)

re-peat said:


> Very mediocre recordings, the lack of essential samples being clumsily masked with blunt trickery, instruments many of which are completely incapable to speak the language of music expressively, sloppy programming and a disturbing amount of samples that even a home-based amateur developer wouldn't dare to include in his/her product. Here's http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/SSB_FrenchHrn2_Legato.mp3 (an example).
> _


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## Apostate (Apr 24, 2019)

re-peat said:


> Spitfire's Studio Series consists of three libraries that give new meaning to the term 'rigor mortis'. With sample libraries, there's always a degree of rigor mortis that you have to struggle with, and I don't mind — in fact, I quite like the challenge — but in Spitfire's Studio Series that all-pervading feeling of of petrified death is so bad and so paralyzing, that there is just no hope of ever emerging from the struggle victoriously. Awful. Truly awful.
> 
> Anyone ever heard anything good done with any of these three libraries? I mean, genuinely Spitfirishly good? I haven't. And we never will, because it's impossible.
> 
> _



I honestly don't feel that way about the woodwinds, in fact I think they're rather excellent for ensembles. I was replacing tracks with it the week I bought it.

I'd love to hear a more specific reason why they suck, please?


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## MartinH. (Apr 24, 2019)

re-peat said:


> Very mediocre recordings, the lack of essential samples being clumsily masked with blunt trickery, instruments many of which are completely incapable to speak the language of music expressively, sloppy programming and a disturbing amount of samples that even a home-based amateur developer wouldn't dare to include in his/her product. Here's http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/SSB_FrenchHrn2_Legato.mp3 (an example).



Stuff like this seems to usually get missed by QA, reviewers, and most users. But this is exactly the kind of issue that I stumble over once I've bought a library after doing hours of research, and then it bothers the everliving fuck out of me. So thanks for sharing this "gem"!


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## Apostate (Apr 24, 2019)

re-peat said:


> Here's http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/SSB_FrenchHrn2_Legato.mp3 (an example).
> 
> _



Yow, if that's a clean example of the Brass...yikes.

I don't hear anything analogous to that abortion in the Woodwinds...I just don't. Maybe it's just my ears.


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## re-peat (Apr 24, 2019)

Give the Solo Flute a try, Apostate:
http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/---/SSWW_FluteSolo_Artefacts_C1-T2.mp3 (Example 1) (mics: C1 & T2) / http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/---/SSWW_FluteSolo_Artefacts_C1-T2.mid (midifile)
http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/---/SSWW_FluteSolo_Artefacts_C2-T1.mp3 (Example 2) (mics (C2 & T1) / http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/---/SSWW_FluteSolo_Artefacts_C2-T1.mid (midifile)

_


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## Apostate (Apr 24, 2019)

re-peat said:


> Give the Solo Flute a try, Apostate:
> http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/---/SSWW_FluteSolo_Artefacts_C1-T2.mp3 (Example 1) (mics: C1 & T2) / http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/---/SSWW_FluteSolo_Artefacts_C1-T2.mid (midifile)
> http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/---/SSWW_FluteSolo_Artefacts_C2-T1.mp3 (Example 2) (mics (C2 & T1) / http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/---/SSWW_FluteSolo_Artefacts_C2-T1.mid (midifile)
> 
> _



The flutes are what first came to mind when I read your earlier post. I do like the Alto Flute legato in SStWW, in fact with a little patience I wrote a really good legato run for it (I need to get a Soundcloud, please be patient). I use a lot of BHCT Flutes (the Concert and Mix), of course the Hein, Met Ark 2 and sometimes the EWH, so I'm not short on good Flutes, anyway.

I'm not completely sold on the solo oboe and bassoon either. But I've found places for the solo oboe, clarinet, and bassoon (not as much on the last). I _*really*_ like the clarinet and oboe ensembles and those, coupled with what for me have already proven to be useful solo instruments, was more than worth the cash. I'm just still tentative on the upgrade.

.


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## Matt Riley (Apr 24, 2019)

re-peat said:


> No, it isn't, trust me. It is, in my opinion, actually one of their worst (together with the two other embarassements that make up the Studio Series). An opinion, that is, based on weeks and weeks of terribly frustrating experiences with the pro version of what I quickly came to consider an offensively sub-standard threesome.
> 
> Very mediocre recordings, the lack of essential samples being clumsily masked with blunt trickery, instruments many of which are completely incapable to speak the language of music expressively, sloppy programming and a disturbing amount of samples that even a home-based amateur developer wouldn't dare to include in his/her product. Here's http://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Examples/SSB_FrenchHrn2_Legato.mp3 (an example).
> 
> ...


This is disheartening to read since I invested around 1K on it about a month ago but haven’t had a chance to use it yet.


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## Apostate (Apr 24, 2019)

Matt Riley said:


> This is disheartening to read since I invested around 1K on it about a month ago but haven’t had a chance to use it yet.



I agree with him on the flute, oboe and bassoon solos. But I thought the rest was excellent. I see you have the Professional, so that's extra cool.

I wouldn't worry too much about SStWW, it's mostly _quite _good. I'm actually glad Re-peat put the fair warning up about the solo Flute, which can be pretty lame. But there are other really excellent libraries for that instrument, off the top of my head the Hein (hard to go wrong with that developer and solo woodwinds). It certainly doesn't sink the whole library, far from it.

Just my opinion.


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## jbuhler (Apr 24, 2019)

Apostate said:


> I agree with him on the flute, oboe and bassoon solos. But I thought the rest was excellent. I see you have the Professional, so that's extra cool.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about SStWW, it's mostly _quite _good. I'm actually glad Re-peat put the fair warning up about the solo Flute, which can be pretty lame. But there are other really excellent libraries for that instrument, off the top of my head the Hein (hard to go wrong with that developer and solo woodwinds). It certainly doesn't sink the whole library, far from it.
> 
> Just my opinion.


The user-posted demos on the brass threads back when the library was released also suggest that the library will work well for many things. It has weaknesses that you'd expect of a comprehensive library at this price point, but it also has strengths beyond simply having lots of instruments covered. I still believe it would make a good complement to the SF Symphonic Brass, because it fills some noticeable holes in that library. That horn example @re-peat posted upthread is obviously not good, but it's also not a sound you'd likely use much in isolation.


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## Alexander Maas (Apr 24, 2019)

My favourite brass libraries are CSB and Sample Modeling. SM Brass sounds awesome if you put it in the right room (which can be tricky). I also have Spitfire and Cinesamples Brass, but I definitely prefer the other two. CS Descant Horn is great, though.

Will check out MSB for sure, especially because of the auto divisi and the many other features. If the legato performance sounds great with auto divisi, it will save me quite some time.


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## fantasy sound (Apr 24, 2019)

How is the latency of CSB? Is it a bad idea to play it with a keyboard for recording notes?
I know CSS has huge latency and it's almost impossible to play in real time. That's OK for me, but for brass instruments, I would like to play them with my keyboard.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 24, 2019)

Sample modeling, infinite brass and CSB. Short example: https://www.dropbox.com/s/loyp8z0k025swli/Alexander_Schiborr_Forgotten_Love_v10.mp3?dl=0


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## I like music (Apr 24, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Sample modeling, infinite brass and CSB. Short example: https://www.dropbox.com/s/loyp8z0k025swli/Alexander_Schiborr_Forgotten_Love_v10.mp3?dl=0



Niceee. Do they all get a roughly equal "airtime" in this layering or is one of those libraries more prominent?


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## Scamper (Apr 24, 2019)

fantasy sound said:


> How is the latency of CSB? Is it a bad idea to play it with a keyboard for recording notes?
> I know CSS has huge latency and it's almost impossible to play in real time. That's OK for me, but for brass instruments, I would like to play them with my keyboard.


The latency in CSB is similar to CSS, if you take away the "slow" transitions. So, there is certainly a noticeable delay in the medium and fast transitions, but I find those playable enough to get used to it and play them live, which I also wouldn't do with CSS.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 24, 2019)

I like music said:


> Niceee. Do they all get a roughly equal "airtime" in this layering or is one of those libraries more prominent?



mixed..Trumpets (SM) ,horns (ib, / csb), Tenor bones (IB, SM, CSB), Bass bone (IB, SM / CSB), TUBA (CSB)


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## Alexander Maas (Apr 24, 2019)

fantasy sound said:


> How is the latency of CSB? Is it a bad idea to play it with a keyboard for recording notes?
> I know CSS has huge latency and it's almost impossible to play in real time. That's OK for me, but for brass instruments, I would like to play them with my keyboard.



It's the same as with the strings, so strings and brass line up quite well. First I was confused as well, but I've created some macros and shortcuts with the logical editor in Cubase. So I play brass and strings with my keyboard, hit one key and the legato sounds great instantly. However, sometimes, for fast passages, I play the piano and fine-tune the dynamic for brass/strings afterwards. btw: I think you get used to the delay of CSS & CSB pretty quick. Sometimes I don't even have to move a single note.


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## Henu (Apr 24, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> Sample modeling, infinite brass and CSB. Short example: https://www.dropbox.com/s/loyp8z0k025swli/Alexander_Schiborr_Forgotten_Love_v10.mp3?dl=0



10/10 for the sound, 11/10 for Korngold.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 24, 2019)

Henu said:


> 10/10 for the sound, 11/10 for Korngold.



thanks, mate. yeah for building / balancing up a template, I need somehow something to mockup..


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## constaneum (Apr 24, 2019)

AlexanderSchiborr said:


> mixed..Trumpets (SM) ,horns (ib, / csb), Tenor bones (IB, SM, CSB), Bass bone (IB, SM / CSB), TUBA (CSB)



pretty much CSB for everything eh ? ahhaha. actually the solo trumpet in CSB sounds quite good. but the 2 trumpets not so. I felt the 2 trumpet a bit thin. I always end up layering it with the solo trumpet to make it sounds fuller.


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## AlexanderSchiborr (Apr 24, 2019)

constaneum said:


> pretty much CSB for everything eh ? ahhaha. actually the solo trumpet in CSB sounds quite good. but the 2 trumpets not so. I felt the 2 trumpet a bit thin. I always end up layering it with the solo trumpet to make it sounds fuller.


No,csb is a bit to back up,but not the first line here. I would say that the expression and bite and fluidity is backed up a lot by ib / sm while some of the bottom end and flair of non linear not too clinical projection comes from csb. Also don´t forget that this sound is nothing like what all of these instruments do sound "out of the box". There is going on a lot of custom scripting and mixing under the hood.


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## Bluemount Score (Apr 25, 2019)

I saw Metropolis Ark 1 multiple times, but don't forget about Ark 2 as well!
It has Fluegelhorns, Bass Trumpets, Euphoniums, Wagner Tubas and Tubas. All a3 patches including legato. Didn't found anything better for those soft, non-brassy parts yet. The list of different articulations is very small, though.


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## Henu (Apr 25, 2019)

Alexander Maas said:


> First I was confused as well, but I've created some macros and shortcuts with the logical editor in Cubase. So I play brass and strings with my keyboard, hit one key and the legato sounds great instantly.



I know this issue has been beaten to death and is derailing the actual topic as well, but I find it really hard to make this approach work. My biggest problem is that when you move the legato notes, many times they need to overlap the previous notes "too much".

For example: I have a semi-fast passage, and the first non-legato note needs to start on the first beat. But if the next note should come already e.g. 150 milliseconds after it, I would actually have to move the first legato note _before_ that first note of the phrase. How do you tackle this problem with your macro?


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## jononotbono (Apr 27, 2019)

What's everyone's opinions on Spitfire Symphonic Brass (SSB) then? What does it do that other Brass libraries can/can't do (other than obviously sound like it's been recorded in the glorious space that is the main hall of Air Lyndhurst)? What is it great at? Bad at?

Really interested in what people think of SSB especially when there are so many choices on the market as listed by everyone in this thread but I'm especially interested to hear opinions by people that are very good at writing and arranging for Brass instruments (because I am not - and it's easy for me to be in love with the Air sound (for good reason)) and what they use SSB for and what are the frustrations of it.


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## ChristopherT (Apr 27, 2019)

Personally - I'm not a fan of the sound of SSB - one of the only Spitfire regrets for me.
To my ears it's sort of blurry and vague - lacking detail.
So I'm searching for a brass library myself - something that can sonically stand up on its own.
So far OT Brass seems to sound really huge, detailed and great room reverb.

Sniffing around before I take any expensive brass plunges


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## Henu (Apr 27, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> What is it great at? Bad at?



I made a mock-up in the winter (well, I still haven't finished it, tbh) of World of Warcraft's Lich King- theme using deliberately only certain libraries with certain "restrictions" to find out their strenghts and weaknesses and to practice transcribing. SSB really shines in my opinion in longer fff/ quivre trombone and horn lines in the "Conan the Barbarian"- brassy style, but lacks heavily in the trumpets after mf when played straight out of the box. Especially the staccatos in general, where you'd definitely need to go time machine (which I didn't do on purpose) on faster things.

Here are a couple of snippets from the horns. The first one ("low") sounds good in my opinion, but in the second one ("full") you can spot some weaknesses as well. But as said, this is non-tweaked and non-layered except for the sound which has been mixed. The mics used were about 50-50 close and decca.

EDIT: The sections used were a6 for all but tuba (duh) and a2 for bass trombones. Because how can less be more when going full Warcraft? :D
In that sort of sense, some of the trumpets could had definitely been better using a2 instead. And naturally, the sound would had been a bit clearer using smaller sections, but what is done is done!

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/ssb_low-mp3.19639/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/ssb_full-mp3.19640/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## jononotbono (Apr 27, 2019)

Henu said:


> I made a mock-up in the winter (well, I still haven't finished it, tbh) of World of Warcraft's Lich King- theme using deliberately only certain libraries with certain "restrictions" to find out their strenghts and weaknesses and to practice transcribing. SSB really shines in my opinion in longer fff/ quivre trombone and horn lines in the "Conan the Barbarian"- brassy style, but lacks heavily in the trumpets after mf when played straight out of the box. Especially the staccatos in general, where you'd definitely need to go time machine (which I didn't do on purpose) on faster things.
> 
> Here are a couple of snippets from the horns. The first one ("low") sounds good in my opinion, but in the second one ("full") you can spot some weaknesses as well. But as said, this is non-tweaked and non-layered except for the sound which has been mixed. The mics used were about 50-50 close and decca.
> 
> ...



Thanks man! I do love the sound of SSB.


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## brenneisen (Apr 27, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> I do love the sound of SSB.



but that's not a good representation of SSB sound



Henu said:


> The mics used were about 50-50 close and decca.



real SSB sound lies on T+A


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## Henu (Apr 27, 2019)

Sorry master, I promise to do better next time.


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## JohnG (Apr 27, 2019)

jononotbono said:


> Really interested in what people think of SSB especially when there are so many choices on the market...



I love it and use it all the time. Sometimes I just want something a little different so I may go for Hollywood Brass or Cinebrass. I used all three to pitch recently for a series that I landed.

People say it's "softer" and in some patches it does lack some of the scream that other libraries have, but to generalise and say it "can't do that" is not accurate. The a6 patches (formerly the Phalanx) can really rip it out, and the Spitfire trumpets are excellent.

Not as thrilled with the solo trombones, but the rest of the library is really good.

Good luck either way Jono. One needs maybe a smaller palette of brass compared with, say, strings, but having a couple / three choices is good.


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## markleake (Apr 27, 2019)

I've used SSB a lot (when I need brass that is) and I like it a lot. If it's not the main brass in a track, it often ends up doubling or performing supporing tasks still.

I'm far from being a good brass writer though, and I don't especially write demanding brass stuff. Nothing loud or epic, which I don't think would suit SSB anyway. It excels more at the traditional orchestral, or warm choral, or regal sounding stuff.

It blends very easily with my other Spitfire stuff, or anything really that you've got some reverb on. It has a warm smooth tone you don't easily get from other libraries. Low dynamics are great for choral stuff, which other libs can't match.

Some of the layer transitions are not as good as they could be in the longs. And the shorts at the higher mf to ff dynamics on trombones and trumpets can jump dynamics too quickly, which is annoying. But a lot of brass libraries have that problem.

It can be a bit muddy sometimes, particularly I find with the horns. You can EQ that out a bit if you need to. If you want a clear direct tone, these aren't it. But really, it's that diffused hall ambience that's so damn fantastic about them... you really need that sometimes for a good brass sound. That Air hall just does wonderful things to brass.


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## Hanu_H (Apr 27, 2019)

These are my most used libraries for brass writing:

CineBrass Core and Pro
Sample Modelling Brass
Adventure Brass
Metropolis Ark 1 Brass

Sometimes I also use Da Capo brass. I have Bravura Scoring Brass as well, but SM Brass replaced it.


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## jononotbono (Apr 28, 2019)

brenneisen said:


> but that's not a good representation of SSB sound
> 
> 
> 
> real SSB sound lies on T+A




Andy Blaney's music and use of samples is on a level that I can only dream of achieving. To my ears, SSB in this piece sound fantastic!


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## jononotbono (Apr 28, 2019)

JohnG said:


> I love it and use it all the time. Sometimes I just want something a little different so I may go for Hollywood Brass or Cinebrass. I used all three to pitch recently for a series that I landed.
> 
> People say it's "softer" and in some patches it does lack some of the scream that other libraries have, but to generalise and say it "can't do that" is not accurate. The a6 patches (formerly the Phalanx) can really rip it out, and the Spitfire trumpets are excellent.
> 
> ...



Thanks John. Always value your opinion. I'm not sure what I am going to buy regarding Brass but the list is narrowing.


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## Manaberry (Apr 28, 2019)

Any feedback on Spitfire Studio Brass?


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## constaneum (Apr 28, 2019)

i actually think Spitfire Symphonic Brass sounds very good. I've almost wanted to hit the purchase button but i just keep holding back for CSB's release. I've ended up with CSB coz 

1) cheaper...within my budget
2) same room as CSS which is my current major strings library in used. Easier to blend with.


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## MOMA (Apr 28, 2019)

The go to library is Cinematic Studio Brass without a shadow of a doubt. The consistency is stunning, and the unique dynamics. Then one may from time to time blend it up with other libraries...


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## Luvide (Aug 26, 2019)

When I can get Cinebrass Complete for roughly the same price as Cinematic Studio Brass (about 70€ more), which one is better value for money? Can CSB also deliver the "Heroic" Sound of CB? I heard that CB is not as good in the lower dynamics as CSB which would make it less flexible... I really don't know how to decide, even after listening through countless comparisons and now both for roughly the same price... This is making it so hard to decide, maybe someone can help me a bit.
Thanks!
- Lukas


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## constaneum (Aug 26, 2019)

Luvide said:


> When I can get Cinebrass Complete for roughly the same price as Cinematic Studio Brass (about 70€ more), which one is better value for money? Can CSB also deliver the "Heroic" Sound of CB? I heard that CB is not as good in the lower dynamics as CSB which would make it less flexible... I really don't know how to decide, even after listening through countless comparisons and now both for roughly the same price... This is making it so hard to decide, maybe someone can help me a bit.
> Thanks!
> - Lukas



for me, i think CSB has better legato than CB. it's more clean recorded as well. I personally find CSB more of quality controlled than CB.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 26, 2019)

Luvide said:


> When I can get Cinebrass Complete for roughly the same price as Cinematic Studio Brass, which one is better value for money? Can CSB also deliver the "Heroic" Sound of CB? I heard that CB is not as good in the lower dynamics as CSB which would make it less flexible... I really don't know how to decide, even after listening through countless comparisons and now both for roughly the same price... This is making it so hard to decide, maybe someone can help me a bit.
> Thanks!
> - Lukas



both!
Haha really, can't go wrong - if I had to pick 1 I'd have to probably go CSB. 

I've layered them before, mighty and heroic - and CSB has better programming in general. I do wish it had a dynamics slider to bring up the soft brass without doing some hardcore volume modulation. it fades to silence and you lose a lot of that bottom round soft brass to the croasfade to silence


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## Jack Mills (Aug 26, 2019)

I use CineBrass CORE. It's one of the best Brass libraries out there in my opinion. I am about to get CineBrass PRO soon, and I'm excited about the Monster Low Brass and the brass fx patches the most


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## Mike Fox (Aug 26, 2019)

HWB is my go-to.


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## constaneum (Aug 26, 2019)

Mike Fox said:


> HWB is my go-to.



it's still one of the best, especially that 6 french horns.


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 26, 2019)

if there was a decent crossgrade path to hwo diamond i would get it. 

alas, the gold libraries I owned pre-subscription mean nothing edit:would cost more to upgrade than purchase HWO

I confirmed this with their sales as a nice way of pointing it out and they basically said "yeah it would be more expensive to upgrade"... needless to say they didn't take a hint.


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## MOMA (Aug 27, 2019)

CBS is recorded in a controlled environment, and either you like it or you don´t. But in my view there is no better brass library out there when it comes to nuances and feel – it is by far the best choice if you like to handle the delicate colours of your arrangement. Then its up to you and your taste of reverb. CBS can be a monster if you want that heroic power

MOMA


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## constaneum (Aug 27, 2019)

MOMA said:


> CBS is recorded in a controlled environment, and either you like it or you don´t. But in my view there is no better brass library out there when it comes to nuances and feel – it is by far the best choice if you like to handle the delicate colours of your arrangement. Then its up to you and your taste of reverb. CBS can be a monster if you want that heroic power
> 
> MOMA



I hope the woodwinds would be as good as the brass. I have high expectations on Alex. Hahah


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## Zero&One (Aug 27, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> if there was a decent crossgrade path to hwo diamond i would get it.



Same, I've asked them and they say upgrade discounts happen... rare as hen's teeth but they happen.


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## Brian Nowak (Aug 27, 2019)

I have been writing trailer tracks for my publisher and have been using both CB and CSB in various places. 

For exposed brass writing, CSB is all around a better library. There's just better nuances that come across because of better scripting and more consistent, modern sampling methods. CB, in that regard, is really feeling its age. 

That said, for the bold, brave heroic sound, CB has literally perfect tone. CSB just isn't "quite" there. Though on this last track I used CSB trombones and only used the main and room mics and that really helped it blend in with CB a lot better. There's just something about the close mics in CSB - they're a bit too "on the nose" and can make the brass sound a bit fakey imo. A bit too much phasing. 

The main point here is for a bit I really thought of Cinebrass as an unfortunate mistake on my behalf. But in the right contexts it simply nails the exact cinematic sound that I need. I'll be using it a lot more now.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Aug 27, 2019)

MOMA said:


> CBS can be a monster if you want that heroic power


----------



## Casiquire (Aug 27, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


>



I was confused for a second, thinking i missed some big release!


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## pawelmorytko (Aug 27, 2019)

Speaking of CSB, I'm having trouble with it getting to sound like the brass in this: 



I know it's difficult mocking up a real orchestra with midi but the part in the middle is just very hard to replicate with CSB, especially the trumpets I think


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## Luvide (Aug 27, 2019)

Has anyone an example of CSB in mentioned heroic (aggressive?) context? I couldn't find such a demo anywhere which is the main reason for me still holding back on it... Brian, could you eventually provide the track you mentioned?
Btw thank you guys for your input and time, really appreciate it!
- Lukas


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## Land of Missing Parts (Aug 27, 2019)

Luvide said:


> Has anyone an example of CSB in mentioned heroic (aggressive?) context? I couldn't find such a demo anywhere which is the main reason for me still holding back on it... Brian, could you eventually provide the track you mentioned?
> Btw thank you guys for your input and time, really appreciate it!
> - Lukas


Perhaps this?



The above is all brass, all CSB. It was an attempt to recreate the unmixed raw audio from a live brass recording, used as a performance reference (below).


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## Luvide (Aug 27, 2019)

I've heard this one and it sounds great imo but I was searching for something maybe a bit more "trailer-ish?". Because this track sounds very realistic (as was the aim, I guess, which it btw achieved very well, congrats) rather than "epic" (pls don't kill me for using this term) imo if you know what I mean...


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## redlester (Aug 27, 2019)

There was me thinking this was a thread about women's underwear!


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## Luvide (Aug 27, 2019)

redlester said:


> There was me thinking this was a thread about women's underwear!


Hahaha no it most certainly isn't!


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## Luvide (Aug 27, 2019)

How agile is CSB? Can I achieve "How To Train your Dragon" - style fast melodies (Welcome to Berk for example) without too much faking and trickery?


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## I like music (Aug 27, 2019)

Luvide said:


> How agile is CSB? Can I achieve "How To Train your Dragon" - style fast melodies (Welcome to Berk for example) without too much faking and trickery?



I believe it is one of the best options available for that. Though its articulation list isn't _massive_ I believe you'd be able to do it. The library I'm using right now (which can do that kind of agility _very very _easily is Infinite Brass) but if CSB won't do it, not sure if many other libraries will do it much better.


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## Casiquire (Aug 27, 2019)

redlester said:


> There was me thinking this was a thread about women's underwear!



LMAO best laugh of the day!


----------



## ProfoundSilence (Aug 27, 2019)

redlester said:


> There was me thinking this was a thread about women's underwear!


I didn't want to he crude publically but I do have a screen grab of a few unfortunate cutoffs. 

"what are some of your favorite plugs for a___(ysis)" saw something else screen grabbed but again, trying to keep it pg13


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## Loden Reinheim (Aug 27, 2019)

Luvide said:


> How agile is CSB? Can I achieve "How To Train your Dragon" - style fast melodies (Welcome to Berk for example) without too much faking and trickery?



Yes. Here are two mockups I made, one of the piece you mentioned "This is Berk" and another, "Dragon Training". They both have some pretty agile/fast brass passages and are 100% CSB.


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## constaneum (Aug 27, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> Perhaps this?
> 
> 
> 
> The above is all brass, all CSB. It was an attempt to recreate the unmixed raw audio from a live brass recording, used as a performance reference (below).




what's the mic you used for this CSB piece? Mix or Main+Room mic?


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 27, 2019)

constaneum said:


> what's the mic


I think he used the Verta, Mike. ;D 

iirc it was close mics but I won't speak for him


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## Crowe (Aug 28, 2019)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I think he used the Verta, Mike. ;D



By far the single most versatile and useful Mike I've come across.

Also, Angry Brass for now.


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## Land of Missing Parts (Aug 28, 2019)

constaneum said:


> what's the mic you used for this CSB piece? Mix or Main+Room mic?


It's all just the default mix.


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## Bluemount Score (Aug 28, 2019)

Land of Missing Parts said:


> It's all just the default mix.


CSB seems to have just as good and very useful main mics as CSS


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## I like music (Aug 28, 2019)

Meetyhtan said:


> CSB seems to have just as good and very useful main mics as CSS



For which my 32gb of RAM is very very thankful.


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## constaneum (Aug 28, 2019)

Meetyhtan said:


> CSB seems to have just as good and very useful main mics as CSS



for me, i tend to use main mic and close mic for CSS where as CSB i tend to opt for the room mic only. personal preference.


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## reverbmaster62 (Aug 28, 2019)

Spitfire Symphonic Brass is a great library. Very high quality.


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## constaneum (Aug 28, 2019)

reverbmaster62 said:


> Spitfire Symphonic Brass is a great library. Very high quality.



forget about SSB. Time to move on with the latest BBC SO. lol


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## Bluemount Score (Aug 28, 2019)

constaneum said:


> for me, i tend to use main mic and close mic for CSS where as CSB i tend to opt for the room mic only. personal preference.


That's probably how I would approach it as well to create some realistic space and variation in distance. But I don't own CSB yet. YET!
For the strings alone, I'd rather boost some air to make them a little closer.


----------



## constaneum (Aug 28, 2019)

Meetyhtan said:


> That's probably how I would approach it as well to create some realistic space and variation in distance. But I don't own CSB yet. YET!
> For the strings alone, I'd rather boost some air to make them a little closer.



yes but the close mic would be a great option to add in some bite. I lately try to create a different template by layering CSS using the classical legato patch (the Close mic) with CS2 (stage mic). So far i like the sound of it.


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## dsblais (Aug 29, 2019)

VSL is fantastic for solos especially with legato, FORZO for ensemble layering, and Spitfire Symphonic Brass for general composition. Sometimes the Arks fit in, but the versatility is limited there. YMMV!


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## Consona (Oct 10, 2019)

I'm just writing a piece with CineBrass Core/Pro and jeez, the stereo image between sustains and shorts is so inconsistant it drives me crazy. And the dynamic range between 1, 2 and 6 horns is all over the place so I can't just put another section over the same midi without the need of totally reprogramming the midi part.

@CineSamples is there any update planned? I'm trying to correct the stereo in Kontakt using stereo modeller but can't put it right.

For those owning 90s Retro Brass, how's programming? And how's the dynamic range, I watched all the walkthroughs and nobody properly showed how soft it can get, so I think there's only 1 dyn layer? Is stereo all right?


Anyway, still waiting for JXL Brass and OT's a la carte shop before buying anything new.


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## StillLife (May 24, 2020)

So little love for Infinite brass?


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## Casiquire (May 24, 2020)

StillLife said:


> So little love for Infinite brass?



There are products that get talked about a ton in here, like some of the Spitfire offerings, CSB, even Hollywood Brass after all these years. But then there are products that get nothing but praise and love when they're mentioned, but they don't come up frequently for some reason! I believe that's where Infinite Brass sits. Most people seem to really like it and I've heard some great work done with it.


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## jononotbono (May 24, 2020)

I keep reading really good things about the Infinite series. Will likely buy them at some stage. Thing is, I bought JXLBrass on release and I’m loving it so I’m learning how to use it properly.

Still want to buy CSB as it has a great discount. Also used SSB a lot since starting this thread and do love the sound of it.

Was very close to buying Berlin Brass but along came JXLBrass and I went with that (but because I’m a sample whore - will likely buy it so I have the full Berlin Orchestra. One day).


----------



## I like music (May 24, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I keep reading really good things about the Infinite series. Will likely buy them at some stage. Thing is, I bought JXLBrass on release and I’m loving it so I’m learning how to use it properly.
> 
> Still want to buy CSB as it has a great discount. Also used SSB a lot since starting this thread and do love the sound of it.
> 
> Was very close to buying Berlin Brass but along came JXLBrass and I went with that (but because I’m a sample whore - will likely buy it so I have the full Berlin Orchestra. One day).



Have you seen the comparisons Shawnsingh did between IB and Berlin? He EQ matched and got them sounding pretty similar to my ear.

Excellent library.


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## StillLife (May 24, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I keep reading really good things about the Infinite series. Will likely buy them at some stage. Thing is, I bought JXLBrass on release and I’m loving it so I’m learning how to use it properly.
> 
> Still want to buy CSB as it has a great discount. Also used SSB a lot since starting this thread and do love the sound of it.
> 
> Was very close to buying Berlin Brass but along came JXLBrass and I went with that (but because I’m a sample whore - will likely buy it so I have the full Berlin Orchestra. One day).


Wow! Who's your sponsor, Jono?


----------



## jbuhler (May 24, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> I keep reading really good things about the Infinite series. Will likely buy them at some stage. Thing is, I bought JXLBrass on release and I’m loving it so I’m learning how to use it properly.
> 
> Still want to buy CSB as it has a great discount. Also used SSB a lot since starting this thread and do love the sound of it.
> 
> Was very close to buying Berlin Brass but along came JXLBrass and I went with that (but because I’m a sample whore - will likely buy it so I have the full Berlin Orchestra. One day).


I'm pretty happy with SSB, though would like more mutes, especially legato for trumpet. I replaced the SSB solo trombone with JXL Brass solo trombone. And so far that's working well. I usually use Ark 1 trumpets a4 instead of the SSB trumpets a6, and Ark 1 horns a9 in place of the SSB horns a6. And for supplements I add the piccolo trumpet, stopped horns, bass trumpet, and euphonium from SF Studio Brass; the Wagner Tubas a3 from Ark2; the flugelhorn and muted and stopped horns from Century Brass; and the horneuph from Loegria; and the low brass from Iceni.


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## jononotbono (May 24, 2020)

jbuhler said:


> I'm pretty happy with SSB, though would like more mutes, especially legato for trumpet. I replaced the SSB solo trombone with JXL Brass solo trombone. And so far that's working well. I usually use Ark 1 trumpets a4 instead of the SSB trumpets a6, and Ark 1 horns a9 in place of the SSB horns a6. And for supplements I add the piccolo trumpet, stopped horns, bass trumpet, and euphonium from SF Studio Brass; the Wagner Tubas a3 from Ark2; the flugelhorn and muted and stopped horns from Century Brass; and the horneuph from Loegria; and the low brass from Iceni.



I recently used M Ark 1 and 3 and the Brass in those are absolutely amazing. Limited but what they do is amazing! And JXL Brass has the same room sound so they all work so well together.




StillLife said:


> Wow! Who's your sponsor, Jono?



Haha! Wish I had one. I have an exhausting life and work pretty much every day/night so I save my money and then spend it on things like Green screens and Sample libraries. Probably going to stop buying stuff soon and save up for hopefully moving to LA at some point. Hopefully is a big word at the moment.


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## Chungus (May 24, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Probably going to stop buying stuff soon



Allow me to be the first to press X to





I give you three months until you buy something else, tops.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 25, 2020)

here is my secret jojo, work a lot = buy a lot, but when you reach that point where you work literally too much you cant really buy anything.


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## MartinH. (May 25, 2020)

Sometimes on VI:C I don't know where the sample hoarding meme ends, and the cry for help begins.


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## Thundercat (May 25, 2020)

Chungus said:


> Allow me to be the first to press X to
> 
> 
> 
> ...


3 months? Hell, I give him 3 weeks!

Should we start a pool?


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## Thundercat (May 25, 2020)

MartinH. said:


> Sometimes on VI:C I don't know where the sample hoarding meme ends, and the cry for help begins.


Well, just remember VI:C grew out of Debtor’s Anonymous...


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## Thundercat (May 25, 2020)

OT but, why do they call it Alcoholics Anonymous, when the first thing they do is have you stand up and give your name?


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## KEM (May 25, 2020)

JXL Brass, so good I deleted every other brass library I have and I have absolutely zero desire to buy anything else


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## jamwerks (May 25, 2020)

Can't wait for JXL Brass Additional instruments, then the mutes!


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## dcoscina (May 25, 2020)

ChrisSiuMusic said:


> My top choices:
> 
> 1. CineBrass - perfect for the punchy superhero sound.
> 2. Cinematic Studio Brass - a very warm tone, opens up beautifully with beautiful dynamic crossfading
> 3. Berlin Brass - sooo good at low dynamics, very noble in colour, surprisingly effective at loud shorts.


What Chris said but in opposite order. I’m working mostly on concert pieces so I’m not needing super hyped brass so Berlin works very well for me


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## AndyP (May 25, 2020)

CineBrass because they have crisp shorts, Hollywood Brass for the incredibly good dynamic range and sound.

Century Brass especially the solo instruments, and Bravura for the more subtle material.

I often start with (not only) Caspian, Adventure and Trailer Brass. Sometimes they stay in.

I love them all...


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## peladio (May 25, 2020)

Hollywood Brass + Sample Modelling..


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## Chungus (May 25, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Should we start a pool?


I'd say yes, but I need my money for libraries! xD


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## John R Wilson (May 25, 2020)

I'm a fan of Hollywood Brass. Its dynamic, has great legatos, clean sound and plenty of articulations.


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## KEM (May 25, 2020)

jamwerks said:


> Can't wait for JXL Brass Additional instruments, then the mutes!



Any official word on those? I know Junkie had mentioned interest after the initial feedback on the library but I haven’t heard anything since.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 28, 2020)

KEM said:


> Any official word on those? I know Junkie had mentioned interest after the initial feedback on the library but I haven’t heard anything since.


iirc it was more or less boiling it down to something high quality that people can actually afford, but it leaves plenty of room for a mute expansion(that's what berlin brass had). I'm kinda curious off glory days if it gets ported to sine


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## IdealSequenceG (Nov 16, 2020)

Auddict Audio - Octohorn

I like the sound of adding a reverb to the LDC Spots microphone.


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## AudioLoco (Nov 16, 2020)

Using mainly 
Spitfire Symphonic Brass: bread and butter, sounds so good in that room, expressive. A classic.
Forzo: More power and modern effect-y when needed
Ark 4: great sounding, particular, expressive
Cinesamples sonore: Soaring classic themes sound perfect with this

I think I'm good (yeah, sure!).
The other arks and JXL (expensive) are the only temptations at the moment.
Heard some Venture demos, dunno, something is not right for my ears.... Will give it another listen there must be a reason for the love I guess...


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## mussnig (Nov 16, 2020)

AudioLoco said:


> Heard some Venture demos, dunno, something is not right for my ears.... Will give it another listen there must be a reason for the love I guess...



As you probably know, Infinite Brass was recorded dry (iirc, in the bell) and the mics are obtained via convolution reverb with unique IRs. However, you can also access the dry signals and put them in your own reverb of choice - there is acutally a nice video by Cory Pelizzari about this. So I think there are lots of possibilities to further shape the sound in case you are not really satisfied with the sound coming out of the box. You might also want to check out the Infinite Series Thread for lots of further examples and different EQ settings etc. Be aware though that IB 1.5 was released recently and due to several overhauls the tone is now a bit different as in IB 1.4 (so you might want to check only recent examples from said thread to really make a judgment about the sound of IB).

Of course the reason why many people love IB (and also IW) so much is the fact that you don't need any keyswitches and the instruments are very expressive and intuitive to play. As someone with practically no keyboard skills, I was completely amazed how easy it is to obtain the sounds that I want with IB. Furthermore, they are extremely light on RAM - on the other hand, IB is naturally more CPU intensive than some other "classical" sample libs (although I can use it without a problem on my Core i7-1065G7).


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## AudioLoco (Nov 16, 2020)

mussnig said:


> As you probably know, Infinite Brass was recorded dry (iirc, in the bell) and the mics are obtained via convolution reverb with unique IRs. However, you can also access the dry signals and put them in your own reverb of choice - there is acutally a nice video by Cory Pelizzari about this. So I think there are lots of possibilities to further shape the sound in case you are not really satisfied with the sound coming out of the box. You might also want to check out the Infinite Series Thread for lots of further examples and different EQ settings etc. Be aware though that IB 1.5 was released recently and due to several overhauls the tone is now a bit different as in IB 1.4 (so you might want to check only recent examples from said thread to really make a judgment about the sound of IB).
> 
> Of course the reason why many people love IB (and also IW) so much is the fact that you don't need any keyswitches and the instruments are very expressive and intuitive to play. As someone with practically no keyboard skills, I was completely amazed how easy it is to obtain the sounds that I want with IB. Furthermore, they are extremely light on RAM - on the other hand, IB is naturally more CPU intensive than some other "classical" sample libs (although I can use it without a problem on my Core i7-1065G7).



Intuitive and expressive are most welcome! I don't enjoy key switches in general so that is a great direction.. 
Having said that, intuitive and expressive has to come together with extreme realism though.. And to MY ears, from the demos I heard, there is something off. 
If it works for other people - great, it is just a personal opinion and I am open to listen again and change my mind.


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## shawnsingh (Nov 16, 2020)

AudioLoco said:


> And to MY ears, from the demos I heard, there is something off



If you have a chance to jump on the Infinite thread and give more detailed feedback about this "off" feeling on particular examples, I bet that would be useful. Either fans of the library can gradually learn from that feedback how to program Infinite better, or Aaron himself can take some of that feedback to see how to improve future versions.

Infinite series has thrown me into philosophical spiral, thinking about the tradeoffs between "expressiveness/control of a library" versus the "quality of the room tone". Infinite series has the potential (and gets close already) to have the best of both, by virtue of the specialized per-instrument IRs on top of a modeled approach.

But what really has been on my mind is something more vague and hard to describe. These two different camps of virtual instruments do serve different sub-genres in their own ways. Sometimes room tone and reverberation is everything. But for a more traditional orchestral tone, I think sometimes we are conflating "room tone" with "realism" and "musicality" too much. Real recordings don't always have the best room tone or spatial positioning of instruments either. But if the room tone is good enough, I think maybe it matters a LOT more that the instruments can be programmed to sound expressive, natural, and nuanced.


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## Ashermusic (Nov 16, 2020)

I have Hollywood Brass, QLSObrass, Cinematic Studios Brass, Metroplis Ark, Kirk Hunter Concert Brass 2, brass in the original The Orchestra, Amadeus Symphony Orchestra, Blue Street Brass, Sonic Implants Symphonic Orchestra brass, VSL Epic Orchestra 2, even some of the brass that comes with Kontakt and Logic Pro , so I have it covered.


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## RogiervG (Nov 16, 2020)

Ashermusic said:


> I have Hollywood Brass, QLSObrass, Cinematic Studios Brass, Metroplis Ark, Kirk Hunter Concert Brass 2, brass in the original The Orchestra, Amadeus Symphony Orchestra, Blue Street Brass, Sonic Implants Symphonic Orchestra brass, VSL Epic Orchestra 2, even some of the brass that comes with Kontakt and Logic Pro , so I have it covered.


Nah! that's just the tip of the iceberg... you need more.. try it.. say "i need more" 10 times and see what happens ..


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## Ashermusic (Nov 16, 2020)

RogiervG said:


> Nah! that's just the tip of the iceberg... you need more.. try it.. say "i need more" 10 times and see what happens ..




Oops, I forgot BBCO Discover


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## ZeeCount (Nov 16, 2020)

My most used brass libraries are now: Aaron Venture Infinite Brass, Performance Samples Caspian and Angry Brass Pro, Spitfire Symphonic Brass (If I'm using other spitfire samples).


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## pawelmorytko (Nov 16, 2020)

My favourite brass libraries are whichever ones @Blakus used in his Star Wars mock up


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## AudioLoco (Nov 17, 2020)

[/QUOTE]


pawelmorytko said:


> My favourite brass libraries are whichever ones @Blakus used in his Star Wars mock up



I think it's SFAR1 (?) + custom libs (?)


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## AudioLoco (Nov 17, 2020)

shawnsingh said:


> If you have a chance to jump on the Infinite thread and give more detailed feedback about this "off" feeling on particular examples, I bet that would be useful. Either fans of the library can gradually learn from that feedback how to program Infinite better, or Aaron himself can take some of that feedback to see how to improve future versions.
> 
> Infinite series has thrown me into philosophical spiral, thinking about the tradeoffs between "expressiveness/control of a library" versus the "quality of the room tone". Infinite series has the potential (and gets close already) to have the best of both, by virtue of the specialized per-instrument IRs on top of a modeled approach.
> 
> But what really has been on my mind is something more vague and hard to describe. These two different camps of virtual instruments do serve different sub-genres in their own ways. Sometimes room tone and reverberation is everything. But for a more traditional orchestral tone, I think sometimes we are conflating "room tone" with "realism" and "musicality" too much. Real recordings don't always have the best room tone or spatial positioning of instruments either. But if the room tone is good enough, I think maybe it matters a LOT more that the instruments can be programmed to sound expressive, natural, and nuanced.



I don't want to be the negative vibe guy, I wouldn't go on that thread just to criticize...
A lot of people are enjoing it...
Sometimes your ear just tells you stuff that is difficult to put in words.

If I need to quickly summarize rationally just to answer your really interesting thought process regarding the room sound... 
Many many recording studios around the world are sadly closing in the last 5-10 years. 
One of the last reasons for some studios to keep existing and get booking is their special rooms and how instruments shine when recorded in those rooms. 
For me it is a similar thing with sample libraries: I am paying for the musicians, producers, scripters, programmers, mics, engineers, but I am also paying, maybe mainly, for the rooms. Most libs differentiate in sound in such a big way because of the room they are recorded in.

I have been a recording engineer for many years and recorded enough acoustic instruments to recognize that, in dire case of need, you can get a close-decent-usable sound (for "orchestral sounding" results, in other genres it is less important) from most instruments recorded in smaller rooms and/or close miking, with the right amount of processing (a lot), virtual spatialization, etc (and possibly you still need some samples mixed under, AND after all this it's still not going to sound as good as the instrument recorded in a great room, where you just need to push the faders up to smile). 

But some brass instrument's sound IS the room sound, especially in an orchestral leaning situation. They are kind of initimately connected and it is difficult to separate the two, one is the extension, the projection of the other. And while artificial reverb, IR or whatever type, helps, it probably doesn't feel totally (to me!!) like part of the instrument.
Maybe that is why my ears are picking up something "off". 

Again this is MY taste, and I'm sure it can work out fantastically for others.
And I might be tragically wrong, and as you are saying, the trade-off (if there is one) with insane playability (I haven't demoed it yet, only heard demos) is completely worth it .....


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## Blakus (Nov 17, 2020)

AudioLoco said:


> But some brass instrument's sound IS the room sound, especially in an orchestral leaning situation. They are kind of initimately connected and it is difficult to separate the two, one is the extension, the projection of the other. And while artificial reverb, IR or whatever type, helps, it probably doesn't feel totally (to me!!) like part of the instrument.


I totally agree with this. I think we are a long way off being able to place dry instruments in a beautiful space *convincingly*. Even libraries that are recorded in slightly smaller stages are difficult to place in a 'large hall' well. I have tried for years to make this work with IR trickery, algorithms, and every spatial positioning plugin out there. While you can get usable results, it is not even close to sounding like the real deal to my ears. Our current tech doesn't seem to be up for the task. It wouldn't surprise me if a company like nVidia started making clearer progress in this area in the future, utilising GPUs.

I guess that's a roundabout way of saying my favourite brass (and other orchestral) libraries are the ones that are recorded in the very best spaces by the very best engineers.


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## IdealSequenceG (Nov 18, 2020)

Auddict Audio - Master Brass : Trumpets


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## Crowe (Nov 18, 2020)

IdealSequenceG said:


> Auddict Audio - Master Brass : Trumpets




I'm not even an experienced amateur so don't pay too much attention to this, but isn't that an entirely too large amount of tail?


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## IdealSequenceG (Nov 18, 2020)

Shiirai said:


> I'm not even an experienced amateur so don't pay too much attention to this, but isn't that an entirely too large amount of tail?


Because I strongly put the church reverb of my taste.


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## doctoremmet (Nov 18, 2020)

IdealSequenceG said:


> Because I strongly put the church reverb of my taste.


@Shiirai Basically me, every time I watch Junkie XL play a synth during one of his studio tour videos


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## IdealSequenceG (Nov 18, 2020)

Reverb removal.


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## Minsky (Nov 27, 2020)

IdealSequenceG said:


> Reverb removal.



Ha! That Minor 7 at the start ...reminds me of an advert from when I was a kid. Now I have to go buy chocolate! ugh!


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## kianef (Dec 23, 2020)

What about Native Instruments SYMPHONY SERIES BRASS? anyone?


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## lettucehat (Dec 23, 2020)

No


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## Crowe (Dec 23, 2020)

kianef said:


> What about Native Instruments SYMPHONY SERIES BRASS? anyone?



Listen to the vegetable fedora.


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## shawnsingh (Dec 23, 2020)

Now that's what I call a thinking cap...


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## Trash Panda (Dec 23, 2020)

AI Talos/Jaeger/Nucleus and Infinite Brass.

Those JXL bones are very nice sounding too.


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## Batrawi (Dec 23, 2020)

Despite the many negative opinions here (including mine when it first came out) I took a leap of faith and got MSB lately... and man I realised how much the snowballing of bad demos/misunderstanding of the product/parroting bad impressions(rightfully based on the bad demos) can destroy such a great product! No regrets here and I'm really glad I grabbed it during the current sale


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## John Longley (Dec 23, 2020)

Batrawi said:


> Despite the many negative opinions here (including mine when it first came out) I took a leap of faith and got MSB lately... and man I realised how much the snowballing of bad demos/misunderstanding of the product/parroting bad impressions(rightfully based on the bad demos) can destroy such a great product! No regrets here and I'm really glad I grabbed it during the current sale


I'm not surprised, I own all their other libraries and love them. I must admit I have held off for the same reasons (unfounded fear). If you get a chance to post any clips, I would love to hear them. It's hard to find much of anything except the one YT video and the basic AB In Depth videos.


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## JonS (Dec 23, 2020)

jononotbono said:


> Just thought I'd ask what everyone's favourite Brass libraries are. I haven't bought as many Brass libraries as I have, for example, String libraries and I actually notice the lack of choice by having so few. My most recent purchase was EWHO and loving some of Hollywood Brass (haven't got through everything in it yet - the whole orchestra is huge in scope and choice).
> 
> I haven't yet bought Cinematic Studio Brass (and definitely going to - just had other things to spend my money on) but I'm looking forward to it after buying CSS and CSSS and if they are anything to go by, I can only imagine it being amazing.
> 
> ...


SSB, SStB Professional, JXL Brass, BBO Zodiac Trombones/Horns, BBO Jupiter, BBO Hercules, Metropolis Ark 1 & 2.


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## Crowe (Dec 23, 2020)

Well, for me (with my middle-of-the-line collection) it's now Bravura Scoring Brass.

I also like ARK 1 and 2 but I find them more niche.


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## Batrawi (Dec 23, 2020)

John Longley said:


> I'm not surprised, I own all their other libraries and love them. I must admit I have held off for the same reasons (unfounded fear). If you get a chance to post any clips, I would love to hear them. It's hard to find much of anything except the one YT video and the basic AB In Depth videos.


Will do whenever I get the chance, but in the meantime I'd recommend everyone to take a listen to zolhof's snippet posted here. Just this tiny example changed my mind 180° so I bought it and found that all other instruments are equally beautiful and playable





Audiobro Modern Scoring Strings


Do you think purchasing LASS full now would be unwise? I don't want to miss out on BF deals - I've been eying a number of string libraries (CSS, Afflatus etc) ...ugh. Edit: seeing the comments on their Modern Scoring Brass definitely gives me pause.




vi-control.net


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## PaulieDC (Dec 23, 2020)

kianef said:


> What about Native Instruments SYMPHONY SERIES BRASS? anyone?


I sold my Symphony Series a while back, BUT, the 2-horn patch is one I wish I could have kept. Just something about it.


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## PaulieDC (Dec 23, 2020)

In the past I would have voted Berlin Brass in my limited knowledge because I thought it sounded "good". Since then two things have happened: I've started to learn about brass arranging (just at a 101 level so far) and I got the SL88 Grand with the 3-point contacts, and now all the low-volume samples of Berlin Brass REALLY shine as does the overall dynamic range (yes, controller and velocity curves do matter!), so now BB is *really* my pick. BUT--I still need the muted expansion whenever that goes on sale.

Not a fair assessment really, I don't know enough yet to accurately judge... but when you are working out a brass part and you MARVEL at the timbre of the instrument in your cans, it's worth a vote.


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## dts_marin (Dec 23, 2020)

+1 for MSB. I will try to post a demo track featuring the library when I feel I have something that does justice to the library. It really deserves more recognition. I was sceptical but after using it for two weeks I just love the workflow. Of course there are some minor kinks but so far the scripting and the sample editing has been really really solid. You can argue about the sound character but I personally prefer it against other libraries that are obnoxiously mid heavy at higher dynamics.


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## Casiquire (Dec 23, 2020)

I'm pleased by the rehabilitation of MSB because I'm an Audiobro fanboy and thought it sounded great in the demos. It didn't quite tip me over the edge into buying it just yet, but that might happen at some point.

My favorite at the moment is Berlin Brass. Granted brass is a weak point in my template but i think they're fantastic. About the worst complaint about them is that instruments are not perfectly balanced one to the next but since i play in lines one at a time I'm naturally compensating for that without even trying so it doesn't bug me any. They sound beautiful to my ears.


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## lettucehat (Dec 23, 2020)

I'm excited to hear user produced work using MSB. I'm also a big fan of Audiobro but couldn't get over the few demos I heard. I almost pulled the trigger on Berlin Brass as the completist approach of having individual players is very seductive. But now that a Modern Scoring template is on the table, I'll have to wait and see.


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## darcvision (Dec 23, 2020)

i like using free angry brass and ML brass from Waverunner for creating big brass sounds, sometimes i'm layering with sonivox brass (staccato). impact soundworks bravura for low dynamic. i'm still learning how to use bravura because it has a lot of potential and it has additional brass instrument like piccolo trumpet, flugelhorn, chord and FX.

maybe next year i'm going to get CSB or infinite brass or century brass if i need more brass.


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## IdealSequenceG (Feb 14, 2021)

Audio Imperia - Talos 12 French Horns


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