# Need some good medieval/renaissance "folk" instruments.



## kevthurman (Feb 11, 2019)

I'm needing to write some medieval/fantasy "tavern" music for a game, and I think I've encountered a bit of a hole in my libraries that I overlooked in favor of better orchestral stuff. Link below for the sort of stuff I'm talking about as inspiration. Lutes, guitars, small drums, tambourines, accordions, fiddles, flutes, zithers, bagpipes, etc. What are some good libraries for that intimate "bard" sound? I have the EW composer cloud, so let me know if I've overlooked some cool stuff in there too!


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## Casiquire (Feb 11, 2019)

I think you'll get an influx of suggestions for Eduardo Tarilonte libraries, I hope you're ready!


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## kevthurman (Feb 11, 2019)

Casiquire said:


> I think you'll get an influx of suggestions for Eduardo Tarilonte libraries, I hope you're ready!


Just from a brief look at his stuff... Seems interesting! I will definitely have to dig in to this stuff tomorrow.


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## Casiquire (Feb 11, 2019)

kevthurman said:


> Just from a brief look at his stuff... Seems interesting! I will definitely have to dig in to this stuff tomorrow.



They sound great! And he has a well deserved reputation here


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## Henu (Feb 11, 2019)

FYI, David Arkenstone - who is responsible for 99% of WoW's "medieval"- styled music pieces- uses a lot of Tari's libraries himself in the soundtrack of the game. Not in this particular song, though, but in many other (cinematic) ones.


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## kevthurman (Feb 11, 2019)

This library in particular seems to be the best one-stop-shop for the sort of stuff I need. I would have never known about this guy if not for this thread and I will certainly be looking back at his website from time to time now! Thanks!
https://www.bestservice.com/era_ii_medieval_legends.html


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## Nick Batzdorf (Feb 11, 2019)

Let me know if you could use some real recorder overdubs.


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## Sid Francis (Feb 11, 2019)

Just a hint: The Tarilonte Libraries are often sounding a bit rough, especially ERA 2 which I hardly use for this reason. You will end up with a much more raw sound than in WoW music. A sweeter sound can be achieved with Ilya Efimovs libs http://www.ilyaefimov.com/ and the instruments from Boulder sounds https://www.boldersounds.com/ Have a look at the Celtic Pipes there: Instant bard feeling for 39.95$


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## bosone (Feb 12, 2019)

what about @paoling fluffy audio's rinascimento?
https://fluffyaudio.com/shop/rinascimento/

(I don't own it...)


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## Mason (Feb 12, 2019)

I have a lot of this and I recommend:

Highland Harps by Impact Soundworks (has a lyre and lap harp)

The Conservatoire Collection by Soniccouture (not worth full price IMO and hard on CPU, but have some good things)

Balkan Ethnic Orchestra (Awesome flutes, zourna and more, some beautiful soundscapes/pads as well)

Ilya Efimov’s Uilleann Pipes and accordion

Tarilonte’s Era 2


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## Lode_Runner (Feb 12, 2019)

bosone said:


> what about @paoling fluffy audio's rinascimento?
> https://fluffyaudio.com/shop/rinascimento/


+1, wonderful library.


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Feb 12, 2019)

Henu said:


> FYI, David Arkenstone - who is responsible for 99% of WoW's "medieval"- styled music pieces- uses a lot of Tari's libraries himself in the soundtrack of the game. Not in this particular song, though, but in many other (cinematic) ones.



He does? I love his WoW stuff and use Tari's libraries myself. Did you find an interview with David? Would love to know more about him and his work.


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## ptram (Feb 12, 2019)

Ethno World 6 includes both traditional folk and Medieval and Renaissance instruments. The newer ones (from EW5 and 6) are also modernly deep sampled.

https://www.bestservice.com/ethno_world_6_instruments.html

Paolo


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## averystemmler (Feb 12, 2019)

Sid Francis said:


> You will end up with a much more raw sound than in WoW music.



A bit of a strange conclusion, given that David Arkenstone (allegedly) uses them in the WoW soundtrack.

I think a fairer statement would be that Era instruments take a bit of work to polish and fit into a mix. That I'll certainly agree with. They're very dry, so have an EQ and your favorite reverb at the ready.


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## Sid Francis (Feb 12, 2019)

Listening to the demos of ERA 2 I stand to my statement. And "used " can mean different things: putting an instrument upfront and exposed or hiding it somewhere in the composition. And I found that whenever I wanted to play of these instruments as an exposed "solo player" it ended sounding rough. He places the microphones very near to the instruments which indeed gives you a very dry sound but also always an "in your face" sound. And thats not what I hear when I listen to the "bard like" tunes in Wow. Perhaps that will go away with EQ and massaging the sound but I would like to hear some examples. Up to now ERA 2 lies virgin on my harddrive. Though I mainly produce folk and renaissance influenced music I never used it... Perhaps my special taste in music


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## kevthurman (Feb 12, 2019)

It will generally be difficult to emulate the WoW sound due to the fact that live players on these naturally very expressive instruments will be tough to compare to, but I think ERA 2 sounds pretty decent in the demos.


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## dflood (Feb 12, 2019)

Sid Francis said:


> Listening to the demos of ERA 2 I stand to my statement. And "used " can mean different things: putting an instrument upfront and exposed or hiding it somewhere in the composition. And I found that whenever I wanted to play of these instruments as an exposed "solo player" it ended sounding rough. He places the microphones very near to the instruments which indeed gives you a very dry sound but also always an "in your face" sound. And thats not what I hear when I listen to the "bard like" tunes in Wow. Perhaps that will go away with EQ and massaging the sound but I would like to hear some examples. Up to now ERA 2 lies virgin on my harddrive. Though I mainly produce folk and renaissance influenced music I never used it... Perhaps my special taste in music


I think I get what you are saying. I only have Celtic Era, and I’ve used some of the instruments in traditional Celtic arrangements. They seem to sit well enough in the mix with others, with some adjustments in EQ, reverb etc. In a perfect world, I’d prefer all instruments to be dry-sampled and close miked, so I can just ‘dial-in’ the virtual distance, room ambiance, etc. in a consistent way for all of the parts. But of course, in the real world such additive treatments seem to often fall short of a well recorded, wet sampled library.


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## averystemmler (Feb 12, 2019)

Sid Francis said:


> Listening to the demos of ERA 2 I stand to my statement. And "used " can mean different things: putting an instrument upfront and exposed or hiding it somewhere in the composition. And I found that whenever I wanted to play of these instruments as an exposed "solo player" it ended sounding rough. He places the microphones very near to the instruments which indeed gives you a very dry sound but also always an "in your face" sound. And thats not what I hear when I listen to the "bard like" tunes in Wow. Perhaps that will go away with EQ and massaging the sound but I would like to hear some examples. Up to now ERA 2 lies virgin on my harddrive. Though I mainly produce folk and renaissance influenced music I never used it... Perhaps my special taste in music



All fair points. Could be that we have different tastes in the "rough" department as well. I come to ancient instruments for their scratchy, buzzy, and otherwise imperfect nature, but I expect you do as well.

I've used Era 2 quite a bit in less authentic contexts, but I'll try my hand at something resembling tavern music, with an Era ensemble in a smaller space. I might have a few hours to rub together this week, and it sounds like fun.


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## Sid Francis (Feb 12, 2019)

In fact I don´t buy these libraries for their buzzing and scratching artifacts. I´am more into the noble aspect of renaissance music. Celtic ERA would have suited my taste a bit better I think but since I play all kinds of flutes myself I thought I would not need them sampled. But the ancestors of our plucked and bowed faction are of interest and as a hint for kevthurmann: the lutes in Fluffy audios "Rinascimento" are gorgeous and very authentic. I just add them to my latest compositions and they work also very well....and they are miles apart from these in the "Conservatoire Collection" if I listen to the demos of the later right.


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## Consona (Feb 12, 2019)

I'm with @Sid Francis There's some excessive rawness about ERA's sound. Instruments sound like they were sampled very close to the mic or something. Even the close mic in Rinascimento (I only have the free plucked instrument) sound way more full and mellow, than the only mic in ERA, where it sounds like the instruments lack some frequencies or something, I just can't get the Rinascimento sound no matter how much EQ or reverb I use. Plus all the other mics, mid and far, give you way fuller sound than just one mic position. ERA bowed instruments sems to be way more playable, but I use other instruments because of the sound.


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## Sid Francis (Feb 13, 2019)

Just went to your site, Avery: wow, very very professional music. And if I am not totally wrong the "plings and plongs" in "City by the Sea" are from ERA?


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## Henu (Feb 13, 2019)

Jimmy Hellfire said:


> He does? I love his WoW stuff and use Tari's libraries myself. Did you find an interview with David? Would love to know more about him and his work.



Judging from Arkenstone's "official comment" on Tari's instruments I think it's safe to assure that he's using those in general, and that led me to do some quick comparisons between some libraries and his music on Cataclysm. There's at least Forest Kingdom and Shevannai all over it. 

Then again, it _just_ struck me that Cataclysm was released in 2011. Am I actually wrong with my comparisons? Argh, now I can't sleep until I find this out!!!


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## Sid Francis (Feb 13, 2019)

Indeed Shevanai and Forest Kingdom are much softer in sound. I just did not buy them because I had a good arsenal of the offered instruments...


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## averystemmler (Feb 13, 2019)

Sid Francis said:


> Just went to your site, Avery: wow, very very professional music. And if I am not totally wrong the "plings and plongs" in "City by the Sea" are from ERA?



Thanks! The lute plongs are from Era, but the hammered plings are the cinesamples dulcimer. And I think spitfire's old free plucked dulcimer is in there somewhere too. And probably a bunch of other unnecessary layers.

If you're curious, some clearer Era-centric examples are "Tusk and Steel" and "Smoke on the Mountaintops." It's been a few years, but everything except the orchestral strings and brass sections in both is Era, I believe. There might be an old EWSO cymbal sizzle or two in there.

(Also sorry: I'd link them directly but I'm on my phone and I made questionable design decisions with this website)


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## Wally Garten (Feb 13, 2019)

I really like a lot of the perc and woods in Versilian Studios' VSCO2 for this kind of thing. Includes a family of recorders, a tin whistle, some other whistles, plus an assortment of hand percussion. There's even a multi called "Medieval Feast."


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## Mark Schmieder (Feb 14, 2019)

Although there are some great single-instrument libraries, and smaller compilations, for your purposes I think you would do well to start with one of Tarilonte's ERA products (e.g. Medieval Legends) as has already been mentioned. That will also give you a better idea of your expansion needs.

My recollection is that these libs tend to go on sale just about this time each year, but as I already own them all, I haven't checked pricing recently (usually via Best Service). Sometimes there's a two-for-one sale on offer, and of course Dark ERA is coming real soon (and is on my list).


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## JPQ (Feb 15, 2019)

One thig what i dont like Edvardo Tarilonte (i hope typed name correctly) libs you must hold keyswitches. i say this becouse this serous problem to me. at least earleir in libs hat i tested is this way.


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## TARI (Feb 15, 2019)

Hi guys,
First of all I have to say that I respect and understand all your comments, but after recording so many instruments I love the close mic for this kind of instruments. No other way to capture the real essence of them. From my point of view mid or far mics remove many nuances from the instruments and a good reverb can give what you need to recreate a hall. 
Noises: These instruments are very noisy and recording them with close mics is tricky. Recording far mics removes all those noises, that's the easiest way, but you miss the character. That's why I record them totally close and clean and add the noises separated. You can remove them or add them in the interface. 
Regarding the hold keyswitch: To me it is very useful. You always have the main articulation by default and you get other ornaments by holding the keyswitch. For example: You don't play any keyswitch and you get legato (main articulation). When you need an ornament just hold the keyswitch, get it, and once you release you get legato again. You don't have to press legato keyswitch again after every single articualtion change. I know many people love this way, but we are all different.
Any question, feel free to ask


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## Jimmy Hellfire (Feb 15, 2019)

TARI said:


> I love the close mic for this kind of instruments. No other way to capture the real essence of them. From my point of view mid or far mics remove many nuances from the instruments and a good reverb can give what you need to recreate a hall.


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## Sid Francis (Feb 15, 2019)

Tari: funnily enough what I miss the most in all orchestral libraries is exactly your mic position 
By the way: I would not record your kind of ethnic instruments with a decca tree, that would not capture all the interesting aspects of the of the instruments, thats right. But an angled pair of cardioids 2m above the instruments gave me good details and a wonderfull and dry enough stereo panorama in my own recordings


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## Consona (Feb 15, 2019)

TARI said:


> but after recording so many instruments I love the close mic for this kind of instruments. No other way to capture the real essence of them. From my point of view mid or far mics remove many nuances from the instruments and a good reverb can give what you need to recreate a hall.


I see that in the opposite way. Sampling instruments too close actually does not capture the essence. We never hear instruments playing right in our ears, most of the time, we hear them in a hall, a big room, etc. It's the interaction with an environment that co-creates the sound of an instrument.

Like I have Cinebrass, I tried to use close mic only with a reverb, but no matter what I do, that just cannot give me that cinematic Star Wars/Lord of the Rings/whatever sound I'm after. Yet all it takes to do get that sound is using Dennis Sands' mix, which is a combination of all the close and room positions. All those frequencies missing in the close sound are immediately there.

I'm no sampling expert at all, so I don't know what difference does it make to put an instrument like 0,5 feet, or 1 or 2 feet, etc. from the microphone, but I have some Spitfire, Impact Soundworks or Auddict instruments that were recorded close, yet they have much fuller and mellower sound than ERA instruments, I really don't know why. Maybe it's because of microphones used, the distance? Dunno.

People love ERA libraries, so it seems not many people actually have problem with the sound. But when I load like any of the ERA's plucked string instruments and then Spitfire dulcimer or Impact highland harps, the difference in the sound is very noticeable to me. Or Desert Winds' Duduk vs Efimov or CineWinds Duduk. DW duduk is the most playable thing ever, but the other ones have way more of that sweet mellow sound I can't get with DW duduk no matter what eq tricks or harmonic enhancers I use. It just sounds brittle in comparison.
Or compare CineSamples' viola da gamba with ERA's one, the same thing again.

Again, seems like most people don't have problems with this, so it's like me personal note, nothing more.

Interesting thing is, I was listening to Ancient ERA Persia demos and the plucked string instruments sounded way better, to me, than those from ERA 1. But since I don't have that library, and can't play those instruments I can't comment more on whether that's really the case or not. But they definitely sounded fuller in those demos.

And for example I'd really love to hear those war horns sampled by someone like CineSamples or Fluffy Audio, close, mid and far mics, just to compare that with ERA's war horns, since those are some of the intruments I think would benefit from a nice recording environment tremendously. (Or is the microphones used? I really don't know.)


Anyway, people love ERAs, so you don't have to be concerted over what I write there. I think the price for all the stuff those libraries contain is amazing, I just like a different kind of sound. Still cannot wait to listen to Dark ERA demos, since maybe the instruments will sound more like those from Persia which I liked.


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## TARI (Feb 15, 2019)

Sid Francis said:


> Tari: funnily enough what I miss the most in all orchestral libraries is exactly your mic position
> By the way: I would not record your kind of ethnic instruments with a decca tree, that would not capture all the interesting aspects of the of the instruments, thats right. But an angled pair of cardioids 2m above the instruments gave me good details and a wonderfull and dry enough stereo panorama in my own recordings


Well, stereo in a single instrument is not a good idea for a sample library. A small movement here and there from the player and you would get align and pan issues. I can hear them in many libraries out there. I guess everyone of us have a different way to do things


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## TARI (Feb 15, 2019)

Consona said:


> Anyway, people love ERAs, so you don't have to be concerted over what I write there. I think the price for all the stuff those libraries contain is amazing, I just like a different kind of sound. Still cannot wait to listen to Dark ERA demos, since maybe the instruments will sound more like those from Persia which I liked.


Dark Era recordings are killer!! believe me


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## Sid Francis (Feb 15, 2019)

Yes, for sampling it might be a bit different. And I know exactly what you mean mentioning the stereo jumping.


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## ptram (Feb 15, 2019)

TARI said:


> Regarding the hold keyswitch: To me it is very useful. You always have the main articulation by default and you get other ornaments by holding the keyswitch.


Held keyswitches can be useful when playing live or recording a live performance, but may be an issue when sequencing and using hidden controls. Not all articulation systems can manage this correctly, and require a dedicated switch to return to a particular articulation. It would be great to have an option on how the system works.

Paolo


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## TARI (Feb 15, 2019)

ptram said:


> Held keyswitches can be useful when playing live or recording a live performance, but may be an issue when sequencing and using hidden controls. Not all articulation systems can manage this correctly, and require a dedicated switch to return to a particular articulation. It would be great to have an option on how the system works.
> 
> Paolo


There is no hidden control. If no key switch is pressed, just the main articulation sounds. Cannot think of an easiest way. What dedicated switch are you talking about? Maybe I am missing some info.


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## Ben H (Feb 15, 2019)

TARI said:


> There is no hidden control. If no key switch is pressed, just the main articulation sounds. Cannot think of an easiest way. What dedicated switch are you talking about? Maybe I am missing some info.



I think he is suggesting some sort of switch/selector thingy on the GUI so that the user can decide the keyswitch behaviour, whether it is a held keyswitch or a sticky keysitch.


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## TARI (Feb 15, 2019)

Ben H said:


> I think he is suggesting some sort of switch/selector thingy on the GUI so that the user can decide the keyswitch behaviour, whether it is a held keyswitch or a sticky keysitch.


I see. I’ll try to implement that in future updates. Engine 3 will be able to handle that


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## ptram (Feb 15, 2019)

TARI said:


> What dedicated switch are you talking about? Maybe I am missing some info.


Sorry for not having been clearer. I was thinking to this: When recording keyswitches with the actual playing notes, keyswitches can be seen in the score.

If using something like Expression Maps or Articulation IDs, you can't see the selection controls in the score. Controls are separate from the score.

Expression Maps can be of two types: Attributes and Directions. Attributes are good for ornaments, because they only apply to a single note.

Directions, that are useful for changes of playing style, like switching to pizz., are applied to all the following notes, up to the next Direction.

Dorico, for example, can only use Directions, so it can't deal with 'held' keyswitches. The only way to use 'held' keyswitches is by entering the corresponding note in the score.

Paolo


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## Mark Schmieder (Feb 15, 2019)

I always make a second track for the keyswitches, but I add them after initial note entry anyway, and as I mostly compose in my head, there's usually a mixture of played notes and scored. I decided years ago that writing from an instrument limits me to my playing ability and traps me into repetitive motifs that I've likely used before. But I still let myself to that now and then -- especially if it's a new physical instrument or sample library. During initial tracking, I just pick a safe neutral sustain non-legato patch, or something closer to portato, depending on the material.

I have developed a strong preference for keyswitches over MIDI CC's for articulation-switching, due to higher precision of control and predictability. Once I mastered this technique with VSL, I was thrilled to see Chris Hein and others develop a similar approach. And for Tari's stuff, we also gain from his amazing use of the CC's for more important stuff that can't be done easily by other approaches, such as the nuances of middle eastern wind playing. I do that in real time from a MIDI controller.


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## gpax (Feb 15, 2019)

With respect to the close mic discussion, have any of you used a tool like Virtual Sound Stage (2)? I routinely use this with select instruments from Tari's libraries, as it adds both a bit of depth and placement, especially in the context of a larger ensemble or orchestra. That before any eq or reverb in the chain. Just a thought...


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## Sid Francis (Feb 15, 2019)

Thank you for the hint gpax. All my instruments go to VSS2 before going to the master but that does not change Taris somewhat "in your face" sound. My remarks are not about the controversy of close mics to far mics but about how the close mics are recorded.


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## averystemmler (Feb 17, 2019)

So I settled in with a few hearty stouts this weekend and made the quick thing I promised earlier. I started off using only Era II instruments, but I picked up Dark Era and wanted to try it out, so there's a tagelharpa, an ancient lyre, and a pair of skin drums in there now too.

http://www.averystemmler.com/music/Personal/Casks_and_Barrels_v2.mp3

I'm pretty happy with the sense of depth I was able to get out of them. The rest of the mix sounds good to my tired ears but is probably a trashfire.


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## JohnG (Feb 17, 2019)

Consona said:


> I see that in the opposite way. Sampling instruments too close actually does not capture the essence. We never hear instruments playing right in our ears, most of the time, we hear them in a hall, a big room, etc. It's the interaction with an environment that co-creates the sound of an instrument.



+1


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## Mark Schmieder (Feb 17, 2019)

I'm a player who has well over 3000 concerts behind him during the course of his lifetime, so I MOSTLY hear the "close perspective" and prefer it even when in the audience (I like chamber music better than big orchestras; the intimacy is more emotionally involving for me in most cases).

I wonder if those of us who prefer close mics and dry recording conditions, are mostly players, or if it's just a matter of random personal taste?


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## JohnG (Feb 17, 2019)

I perform every week, Mark. So I guess it depends on the sound you want to make / hear?


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## TARI (Feb 18, 2019)

Definitely it is a matter of tastes, but using close mics doesn't mean you don't get the room. Just try to record close mics in a bathroom or in your bedroom :-D ...To me close mics means the perfect way to have the best of both worlds: the nuances from the instrument (air from flutes, string sound. etc) and a slight good room sound that will make the instrument sound better and will allow you to use your own reverb.


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## Casiquire (Feb 18, 2019)

I agree, close is better. You can always roll of frequencies to give a bit of distance.


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## Mark Schmieder (Feb 18, 2019)

Just to put my own preferences in perspective, my company developed and patented a special system for electronically altering room acoustics. The main person behind this system engineered almost half of Decca's classical recordings, and that is one of our main target audiences. Not sound reinforcement, as that replaces the point source. But it's WAY more advanced than convolution (which is a part of the process nonetheless).

Dialing in the right amount so that it sounds natural, as though it is part of the room vs. altering the instrument's sense of where it is, is the hardest part, so we have to have highly trained operators who deal with that. And LOTS of microphones are involved!

Anyway, being semi-involved in that, watching Vienna MIR, WIVI, and other approaches to spatial aspects of acoustics, has made me more sensitive to baked-in large hall sounds in sample libraries, but also aware of what can be added vs. enhanced. So yes, 100% dry/anechoic isn't good either -- this is why the Sample Modeling stuff, other than for the lower-frequency instruments, can be hard to work convincingly into an orchestral perspective vs. using it for jazz, pop, reggae/ska, etc.


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## Consona (Feb 20, 2019)

Sid Francis said:


> My remarks are not about the controversy of close mics to far mics but about how the close mics are recorded.


Yea, I was comparing close recordings of Spitfire's Andy Findon Kit Bag and Forest Kingdom II flutes and Kit Bag has way more richer and fuller sound. So it must be the equipment used and/or sampling technique (distance from the mic or whatever factors there could be).



TARI said:


> Dark Era recordings are killer!! believe me


Watched @Dirk Ehlert 's video and liked the sound, but can't comment more on this since it requires hands on experience. So maybe one day... 

I'd really love to hear those instruments sampled by some other companies to have some points of reference when judging the sound.


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## Mark Schmieder (Feb 20, 2019)

I also am sticking with Kit Bag for the most part, for those specific instruments, and it's because the timbre seems much richer and deeper, likely due to miking techniques.

I remain mystified why those libraries got pulled down so low; it's rare that I have to add vs. subtract from the volume output of a Kontakt Library, but some of those have to be pushed up to +6 dB or even +12 dB! And I'm someone who records at -24 dBFS for the averages.


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## AndyP (Aug 21, 2019)

Sid Francis said:


> https://www.boldersounds.com/ Have a look at the Celtic Pipes there: Instant bard feeling for 39.95$


Damn, I was looking for good Bagpipes for such a long time! I have use those from my MODX, but these are so much better! Great hint!


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## Mark Schmieder (Aug 21, 2019)

I've been using those ever since 1999 or so, when they were first released for the Yamaha MOTIF DAW Workstation Keyboard. It was the first Bagpipe library to offer a proper Drone.


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## AndyP (Aug 21, 2019)

I really like them, they sound very good and it is a great addition for MOTIF MODX. The bolder sound celtic pipes are similar and the multi patch detune is a big win, so its great to layer them to get a bigger sound.


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## dannthr (Aug 21, 2019)

I really like Flying Hand Percussion for these kinds of tavern-band rhythm beds. Really nice detail and a good range of drums appropriate for fantasy/medieval settings:









FlyingHand Percussion – HandheldSound


highlights instruments features & tech video & audio requirements & info reviews $ Add to Cart the highlights FlyingHand Percussion is a dedicated Hand-Percussion sample library. With over 30,000 samples, it represents an authentic and evocative ensemble utilizing a great number of...




www.handheldsound.com


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## MSutherlandComp (Aug 21, 2019)

Mason said:


> I have a lot of this and I recommend:
> 
> Highland Harps by Impact Soundworks (has a lyre and lap harp)
> 
> ...


+1 for The Conservatoire Collection


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## JohnG (Aug 21, 2019)

averystemmler said:


> I think a fairer statement would be that Era instruments take a bit of work to polish and fit into a mix. That I'll certainly agree with. They're very dry, so have an EQ and your favorite reverb at the ready.



I think it's more than just EQ. I agree with Sid. I find them extremely clumsy.


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