# Are UAD plug-ins worth it?



## Valérie_D (Apr 13, 2020)

Hello all,

Hope you are safe in these particular times.

Maybe there is a thread about this but I received an investment from my family and I got quoted the whole satellite with all the uad plug ins for 7k.

Since i have the funds : are these relevant? I already have the fabfilters and my soundcard is the uad quad.

Thank you all for chiming in!

Valérie


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## gst98 (Apr 13, 2020)

The UAD stuff IS great - but 7k is a lot. What hardware are you getting for the 7k? 

The big sell on UAD is 
1) the software hardware integration for recording. If you're running a studio needing to record lots of mics like drums and multiple live musicians then this is great. Do some reasearch on UAD Unison Preamps/plugins. unbeatable if you're recording with a mic lots.
2) The DSP hardware acceleration. Running plugins on the hardware takes the load off of your computer which can be a great help. Only thing is, in 2020 computing power is getting so fast and affordable the bang for your buck in terms of cumpute power from UAD is really bad value. 7k would buy you a new Mac Pro for example.

If you check out the UAD forums, they experienced guys there give a guide price of 30 usd per UAD plugin, but it requires being clever with sales. In the long run you don't want to be paying more than 50-60 USD per plugin.

So I doubt you need ALL of the UAD plugins. Buying just a few would save money on plugins you inevitably will never use.


For reference I bought an Arrow new. I wanted some more power so I bought a used OCTO on ebay. I waited a while and managed to get an OCTO with ~40 UAD plugins for £800. I now own something like 60 of the 100 plugins, and so UAD quoted me £900 to upgrade to owning every plugin. So I could own an OCTO and every plugin for £1700.


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## gsilbers (Apr 13, 2020)

These threads get long.

Short answer:

Uad plugins are good. But they won’t be either better or worse than waves or pluginalliance plugins.

The Onboard effects dsp is an old technology but rebranded to be used on incoming audio so u can track/record with plugins. 
But most computers will let u mix w tons of native plugins. 
And uad is famous for underpowered dsp. You need several dsp chips to load the plugins and people complain about not being able to load as many as they want. Plus it adds latency.


But u can judge yourself if you google comparison with specific plugins and the way they sound.
Like ssl compressors. 
Download a demo for similar eq and compressor etc. and do double blind test so u don’t know which plugins is affecting the audio isn’t the test. Write down the answer. 
You’ll be surprise how pretty pictures and branding affect purchasing.

If I where u I would just sign up for the plugin alliance newsletter and wait for the 29.99-39.99 deals. And if u need a plugin then buy it after demoing.


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## karelpsota (Apr 13, 2020)

There's so much reasons to hate UAD. (high price, non-native, customer support, cheap cores in their interfaces)

But when I compared a real Fairchild to their emulation (we're talking 20dB of GR). I couldn't tell the difference. It's was spot on. I also compared to the Waves Puigchild, but that sounded different.

But you know what?

I use the Waves Puigchild, because it's cheaper and I can run it on my laptop without UAD hardware.
The sonic difference is there, but it's just different, not better.


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## JohnG (Apr 13, 2020)

I use UAD and like them.


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## robgb (Apr 13, 2020)

Considering the entry fee, I'm not so sure. Most of my plugins are great and they each cost me from $0 to $40. I subscribe to the theory that there is no plugin that will make you a better composer, and even a DAW's stock plugins work just fine.


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## Virtuoso (Apr 13, 2020)

Do you really need 18 different vintage compressors? 16 different vintage equalizers? 10 channel strips?

10 years ago I would have strongly recommended UA plugins (I have almost all of them) and I would have given you a long list of must-haves, but times have changed. You can get high quality (arguably better) versions of many of the UA staples from many third party developers these days.

Many of the 3rd party UA plugins are available MUCH cheaper from Plugin-Alliance and Softube (sometimes Sonnox) during sales, and they get the benefit of more/faster updates, upgrade paths, and multiple user licences.

The 12 year old UA hardware hasn't kept pace with the software - many of the newer plugins are quite DSP intensive, so an Octo Satellite can get used up pretty quickly and the only solution to that is to keep adding more Octos at $1200 a pop. Why tie yourself to a proprietary platform when there are so many CPU efficient alternatives out there?


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## jcrosby (Apr 13, 2020)

gsilbers said:


> These threads get long.
> 
> Short answer:
> 
> ...


100%. If you use the hardware and track a lot, or taking the DSP load off of your computer is useful they're worth it. In terms of quality they are many equally as great options, for example - the softube, plugin alliance, and Sonnox plugins are also available as native and they sound the same...


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## gsilbers (Apr 13, 2020)

jcrosby said:


> 100%. If you use the hardware and track a lot, or taking the DSP load off of your computer is useful they're worth it. In terms of quality they are many equally as great options, for example - the softube, plugin alliance, and Sonnox plugins are also available as native and they sound the same...



ah forgot about softube. those are great. and sonny inflator is just the beez neez.


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## jcrosby (Apr 13, 2020)

Love me some inflator! Softube as well


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## STec (Apr 13, 2020)

Salut Valérie,

UAD plugins are great I use them all the time but you should only get the ones you will actually need or use, ou can always demo them. In my opinion, they are not all good and useful.

During summer and black friday they have a deal: "choose 4 plugins for $399" that's pretty much the best price you can get them unless they are less than 200$. In that case you should buy them when they are 50% off like right now.

For VIs you can't go wrong with Ocean Way Studio in order to put a dry sample into a room.


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## patrick76 (Apr 13, 2020)

For a 7k investment, I'd consider some hardware for your master bus  And I would buy a bunch of plugins also. As was already mentioned, there are a lot of great plugins out there, from UAD and many other developers and if you can wait, you can get them for great prices. 

I would recommend taking your time. No rush.


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## José Herring (Apr 13, 2020)

You have the money the decision is made. I think people debate about it because they are trying to get the bang for the buck and trying to decide if they can "afford" to spend the money on UAD. So then you get people's opinion on is it worth it or not. But, you have the money so it becomes a question of what UAD package are you going to get 

Personally I'd go for another Apollo interface with the 104 plugin package. If your UAD Quad is an Apolo interface you could dramatically increase the capabilities of your studio with a package like this:









Universal Audio Apollo x8 18x24 Thunderbolt 3 Audio Interface with UAD DSP


18-in/24-out, 24-bit/192kHz, Thunderbolt 3 Audio Interface with 6-core HEXA Core Processor, Elite-class AD/DA Conversion, Dual Crystal Clocking, 4 Unison Preamps, +24dBu Operation, Talkback, 7.1 Surround Support, LUNA Compatibility, and Realtime Analog Classics Plus Plug-in Package - Mac/PC AAX...




www.sweetwater.com


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## JohnG (Apr 13, 2020)

I got the UAD-2 Satellite Thunderbolt OCTO, and I like it a lot, but if I were in the market for an interface I like @josejherring 's idea of the Apollo. I already had a bunch of Pro Tools interfaces and an HD-Native Thunderbolt, or I might have gone for the Apollo as well.

Moreover, I had already purchased an older PCI-based UAD card so I owned a lot of UAD software licenses from that purchase; as a result it wasn't as expensive as it would have been to buy both the interface and all the licenses.

I would spend a little time talking with someone at your favourite store or at UAD itself to see what works best for you. I think it's nice to hear from people at v.i. control, but you're the one who has to live with it!

Kind regards,

John

(also, you can sell your old card if you like.)


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## Thundercat (Apr 13, 2020)

Put the $7K in a high interest bearing checking account until you decide what to do.

As many have stated, unless you have a pressing need, there is no rush. Take advantage of the sales that inevitably pop up; you can get a much bigger bang for your buck when the sales are 50% or more. How about $14,000 worth?

I agree with the others that many other plugins are great. But as Jose stated, if you've already decided then this is all a moot point. We can all tell you what we like and use, and why, but at the end of the day it will be you in your studio using what you bought. And the big package deals can be fun, but then as previously stated you'll get a lot of shit you don't need. Just saying.

I overbought last year, due to sales frenzies and still being a noob (which I am still), but I've learned a lot.

So I guess the real question, that I haven't seen anyone ask here, is why are you wanting to buy the whole plugin package? I realize this is blasphemy here at VI-OutOfControl, where GAS is the norm, but really are you needing some specific plugs or are you missing some big capabilities?

Good luck in your decisions.

Mike


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## bill5 (Apr 13, 2020)

Are you dismissive about the T.P. shortage because you can afford to wipe with $20 bills? No? Then $7K is an insane amount to spend on plugins. UAD is great, but they aren't worth anywhere near their cost, esp when you can get plugins for so (SO) much less which are as good or at least close (in some cases, some would argue even better). The diff in plugin quality is far more often than not way overrated.


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## José Herring (Apr 13, 2020)

It's an investment. Her and her family believe in her and what she's doing. She could spend years looking for those plugins that are "just as good" or "nearly as good" or "as good but different" but those are just slight variations of the same saying. Yes, it's well known that there are plugins that are "as good" or "nearly as good" or "as good but different". But, why bother dragging it out and trying to find all of that. She will find that in time. As for now, she's asking is UAD worth it. Yes! Hell Yes! It's a one stop shop of great plugins. 7k is steep maybe she can get a better deal somewhere else or package it in a better way. But, that's not the point. UAD has great stuff. Get it if you can when you can.

If somebody gave you $20,000 to invest solely in your studio would you sit on it while you tried to figure it out? Wait for the deals? I say no. Invest now. There will be plenty of leaner times when you have to wait for the deal unfortunately. But, now she's flush. Make that money work for you. Get what you need to improve your production. Why be cautious? What's the point? There's always going to be a sale. Should she wait for Christmas or the end of covid-19 black Monday sales? Nah.... Get the best deal you can get now.


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## Sean J (Apr 13, 2020)

Stick with your DAW plugins.

If most plugin developers had trained their ears all their lives and focused more on audio than code, the math behind convolution would get a lot more attention as it's not even remotely as accurate or authentic as it should be. I don't fault devs for that, but I don't love how the industry still clings to tired old EQ/Filter/Convolution math and heavy marketing. They learn the base math everyone else uses and rinse and repeat with a shiny GUI you can't help but want. In a small town, visitors can often hate tap water locals naturally don't mind. Call me unpopular, but nostalgia love has stunted progress. Few will care about the best tape plugin in 100 years. Add the fact that Intel has vast more dsp potential than UAD's "shark processors" and how much I hate proprietary dev to the mix. UAD has some solid plugins, as do many. I might even use their plugins if I had them. They aren't bad. But few plugins, even by cheaper companies, are truly worth the price to me.

There are exceptions:

I own Gullfoss and CraveEQ based on something I wanted to do and based on my ears, not my eyes. I have a couple delay plugins for their features and per what I could afford. These were mostly music-related decisions, not really about audio processing. 99% of people, and 99% of my own needs, can be done with the tools I already have. Doing the best you can with what you have, and working with limitations, can do wonders for you. Having everything under the sun is way overrated. So my advice is to only get plugins when you need something to do a certain job. Don't bother buying mass collections just to have them. You might as well buy an entire dealership just to get 1 car, 1 truck, and 1 SUV.


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## JohnG (Apr 13, 2020)

Why is everybody (except José) trying to talk her out of this?

Admittedly, if you're using only samples or pure electronic sounds, maybe the plugins matter less? IDK. I love the UAD sound and I always include some live elements, even if it's just me playing. Plenty of Famous People use them too and some of those people have pretty good ears. They can afford whatever they want, and UAD is what they chose. Besides, when I change OS or hardware, they don't sting me for unnecessary upgrades or paid "maintenance" or something.

I don't agree that effects all sound the same. For example, I can't stand a lot of reverbs people use -- some quite well-known -- and am mystified that they can tolerate listening to them. I use the Lexicon on the UAD card and it sounds awesome every time. I kind of grew up with the Lexicon 480L sound so maybe that's why?

I have a Steinway grand, a nice Fender guitar with a tube amp, and a Selmer saxophone too. Maybe they were overpriced, IDK, but just because it has a brand name doesn't make it bad.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Apr 13, 2020)

My two cents: I haven’t used UAD but all reports say their stuff sounds great. But the old-ass chips are pathetic and overpriced compared to modern CPUs and there are good sounding native options. I’d prefer to spend my money on samples and other things that “make a noise.” Also in these uncertain times I’d rather have my 7k invested in index funds or safe in a savings account rather than tied up in gear.


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## Jeremy Gillam (Apr 13, 2020)

Also worth thinking about, for people who came of age with the hardware boxes the UAD stuff might make more sense than for people of my generation who have only really used plugins.


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## Thundercat (Apr 13, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Why is everybody (except José) trying to talk her out of this?
> 
> Admittedly, if you're using only samples or pure electronic sounds, maybe the plugins matter less? IDK. I love the UAD sound and I always include some live elements, even if it's just me playing. Plenty of Famous People use them too and some of those people have pretty good ears. They can afford whatever they want, and UAD is what they chose. Besides, when I change OS or hardware, they don't sting me for unnecessary upgrades or paid "maintenance" or something.
> 
> ...


She's not asking about a $100 purchase; by the sounds of it she's trying to flesh out her entire studio. So I think it's natural that people have other ideas about how she could best spend the $7k.

But you have a good point, and it's been stated by me and others too - if she has her heart set on those plugs, she should get them.

But I think many here can relate to buying big plugin packages and then finding out later they didn't need a lot of it. I believe that's where a lot of this is coming from.

We all have the OP's best interest at heart...

Good to know you adore the UA plugs so much; I genuinely mean it. It's a great endorsement coming from you.

Thx,

Mike


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## jamwerks (Apr 14, 2020)

Funny nobody asks the most pertinant question: what kind of music does the op do?

For mainly sample-based cinematic production, you don't need channel-strips and mojo-eq's. If she is tracking great singers and instrumentalists and producing final mixes, it's a totally different equation.

For sample based production, I'd buy Waves Horizon on sale for $300 and use the rest on samples.


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## easyrider (Apr 14, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Why is everybody (except José) trying to talk her out of this?



Times have changed, and UAD is overpriced...7k is a lot of money...when there are simply better sounding plugins out there for less...

The OP has all the fabfilter plugins already...these are tools used by the pros automatically buying more plugins the OP might not even use is bad advice imo.


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## Zero&One (Apr 14, 2020)

If I had an investment from my family of 7K. My thread would say "LOOK what I bought from UAD woo hoo!"
Go for it.


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## Prockamanisc (Apr 14, 2020)

I would buy the UAD Octo card for $1000, and order a custom bundle of 10 plugins for $1000. Every few months they have a sale where they give you 13 plugins for the same price. So I'd just wait for that, and you could even purchase two of them. So you'd have 26 plugins, spend $3000, and have $4000 left over.

Keep in mind that UAD's "Ultimate" bundle does NOT come with all of their available plugins. It only comes with the ones that were developed by them, so you'll be missing a lot of what they offer anyways.

The real question is: which plugins will you use the most? I'm happy to chime in, if you're thinking of going this route. But I definitely find that I gravitate towards only a handful of their plugins, and most of the ones that I bought go unused.


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## ThomasL (Apr 14, 2020)

From my workflow perspective, where UAD really shines is this: imagine you have a dense orchestration, latency is around 1024 samples. You want to add a vocal track. The vocalist wants reverb in the cans. The piece is quite dynamic and the singer is following along and there is clearly need for some compression so that he/she can hear himself/herself in every part of the track. With UAD you simply add a reverb and compression in the monitoring chain ≈ 2 ms latency (regardless of the DAW latency) and hit record. Done.

The above example is what sets it apart in my workflow, great monitoring while tracking REGARDLESS of how far the project is and what induced latency there is from what plugin chain you may have in the session.

The other thing is the Unison technology, the modeled preamps are truly great, my wife refuses to sing into anything else than the Neve 1073.

So in short, if you do any kind of recording you will eventually come to a point where UAD would be a benefit. Sure, there are other interfaces and routes/techniques to deal with the above example but to have to stop a session, wait for a bounce/freeze so the latency can get down so you can use reverb from the DAW is such a creativity killer that I never want to go back to.

As it is now I record/monitor through UAD-plugins but mix with mostly Softube (thanks to Console 1!).

My 2 cents...


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## emid (Apr 14, 2020)

I am also looking into UAD stuff and this thread will help me decide as well.
I was given a suggestion of a powerful slave for all effects which could also be used for tracking. Even my old i5 could track vocals/guitars through Acustica Audio's pres notorious of sucking cpu with negligible latency.


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## Ross Sampson (Apr 14, 2020)

Valérie_D said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Hope you are safe in these particular times.
> 
> ...



Hey Valérie. The UAD plugins are freakin' amazing, as are many others... What really shines out to me are things like the Ocean Way, Capitol Chambers plugs and the Amp emulations (it's for them I jumped back on the bandwagon last year). I had my first round of UAD plug-ins via a PCI card about 10 years ago, and absolutely loved them because they allowed _me_ to dial in a sound I liked easily, but then so have the Slate plugs and I'm excited by the new PSP InfiniStrip. The hardware interfaces are great (as are others...), and one thing that's very cool is the unison technology which emulates impedance, and when combined with some of the pre-amps, does sound very cool.

In our studio we fired up the Drawmer 1970 and that becomes a favourite for a while, just actual hardware chaos beyond the software emulations and well, that has started seeing way more use than the UAD stuff for that purpose. There's a vibe still missing from the software stuff, how much might be negligible to you. It's about what you respond to, what you use day-in and day-out and how you get to express yourself creatively.

I would whole heartedly absolutely 100% not recommend spending anywhere near $7000 on them unless it's completely expendable money... the reason being is they are available second hand and on frequent sale, below is a link with a lot of information about UAD sales and vouchers and how you can use them to save money. There are many other plugins that will do the job arguably just as well (things are subjective here) that are far less expensive, so worth checking. At the very least I'd recommend going with using what you have been until the plug-ins go on sale, or you can pick them up from eBay.

I'd highly recommend picking up these plug-ins in much more informed ways, including second hand. You can save thousands just by spending a few months scanning eBay, or at least playing sales and vouchers correctly. Here's a run down.

For me, looking back, I think I'd rather have picked up a wonderful (to me) hardware pre-amp supplemented by some nice UAD plugs. I'd definitely still have and still be using the hardware, but the UAD plugs have been swapped in and out over the years... that was my journey. They were worth having, but not worth full price.

This is your journey. Certainly these are great plug-ins that warrant their praise, but _for me_ do not warrant a $7000 investment. Not compared to how far that money can go spent elsewhere to help you in the industry, to help create, to build your arsenal, hire other experts etc (so I guess here it comes down to what your goal is). Especially not when via patience, eBay and using the vouchers at sales time, you could still get the plugs and save a load.

I firmly believe you can still yield the power and hopefully inspiration of the UAD plugs, and not spend $7000 doing so. I also firmly believe in exhausting the tools you have to better inform where your next steps should be.

As a side note UAD have a 'Now You Can' thing going on on the website, and the Ampeg Heritage Bass Amp Bundle comes with a tuner, and they say 'Now you can: Stay in tune with the included Brainworx bx_tuner'. I mean, I'm pretty sure we could all stay in tune already but, thanks for the effort UAD. So take their words with a pinch of salt.

This is quite a good video that for me demonstrates what Jacquire King says in the comments, that hardware is generally 'better' (what does that mean - well listen yourself, vibe, depth, warmth? It's not so noticeable when individual parts are soloed, but the whole track is where to me there's more difference) but the difference again, may well be negligible.



"I'd just like to say that everyone is right here and the big take away should be that it really is so close it becomes a choice. Is the hardware the ultimate winner.. ? I think so, but only by a small margin and I know that if all I had was ITB, I'd get a record down that I could be very proud of. Thanks for checking this out and let's focus on capturing a great song, performances, and sonic vibes to make interesting art." - Jacquire King


If you mixed an album using only UAD, Waves, Slate, PSP, Fabfilter and A/B'd them blind... well that would be interesting. But things don't work this way, it's about your flow, your process, what allows you to create. UAD allowed me to do that, I just vibed with some of the plugs. For others I go elsewhere. I've found there's no one definitive plug-in developer you know? And how cool is it all this stuff is out there. I'm waffling on. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful, UAD plugs are great, you can have loads of them without spending full price. I'd recommend checking out Slate and PSP too!


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## zvenx (Apr 14, 2020)

I have been using UAD for probably 15 years now? Still use some daily. I don't think you need to buy ALL of their plugins, they aren't created equally imho.
Although with a 50% off of everything sale now might be the best time to buy them, whichever ones you decide. For me they excel in dynamic effects... compressors and the likes...
rsp


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## Ashermusic (Apr 14, 2020)

I love my UAD plugins and some of them pretty much have no Native counterpart. That said, some recent other releases from other developers make some of them less necessary and they don’t introduce the same latency.


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## Living Fossil (Apr 14, 2020)

Valérie_D said:


> Since i have the funds : are these relevant? I already have the fabfilters and my soundcard is the uad quad.



Valérie,

as you see in the answers, UAD is a really sensible topic.
The main reason is similar as with higher prized hardware gear:
Those who have it often feel the urge to defend the hefty prize difference in comparison to much lower prized options. 
Sometimes it gets absurd, e.g. when people insist on an alleged difference between exactly the same plugins run natively vs. on UAD. (e.g. some plugins from Pluginalliance are also sold for the UAD platform). 

However, there are objectively some great plugins for UAD.
In your place, i would really take the time to explore what's really useful to you.
My guess is that there is quite a risk that in 2 years you regret that you've set that much money on one horse...

To conclude this post:
My advice would be first not to hurry with making decisions.
Second, i would never spend the whole money on UAD stuff.
For 3k you could get quite an amount of amazing plugins, lots of which aren't even available for the UAD system.
And third, as has been mentioned: I'd really advice you to take the time to make several blind tests with different plugins and reflect if these nuances are relevant in your music.

There's a known malady among some musicians: they focus their whole energy on how to get the last percent in quality. They buy the most expensive cables and some highend outboard gear.
But they forget the other 99% of what is relevant for the quality.
I've literally seen guys putting one noble plugin after the other in the insert of a softsynth, spending lots of time tweaking all these refiners, cascading multiple compressors to get that extra punch. And in the same time they completely forgot that adjusting the attack time and the cutoff of the synth would have made a much bigger difference...


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## khollister (Apr 14, 2020)

I am neck-deep in UAD (Apollo X6, 2 TB Octo satellites and tons of plugins) and my answer is "maybe".

Setting aside the recording advantages (input monitoring/recording through UAD plugins with low latency on an Apollo), the plugin are a mixed bag. When it comes to accurate emulations of vintage gear, the recent UAD-developed stuff is usually state-of-the-art compared to native. The revised mkII versions of the 1176, LA-2, Fairchild, Pultec, API stuff, Helios, Neve 1073, etc are outstanding. The Lexicon 480L is in my opinion the best of the Lex emulations and the Capitol Chambers and Oceanway Studios are unique emulations of legendary spaces not available elsewhere. The Massenberg EQ and Katz K-Stereo plugins are excellent and not available natively outside of ProTools I think. UAD is also at the top for a few things like the Cooper Time Cube, Fatso & Distressor. The Ampex and Studer tape simulations are probably the most accurate. However there is a lot of stuff that is good, but not significantly better than native alternatives.

There is a 50% sale this month and that includes the good prices for the Custom bundles of 3/6/10 plugins. I would NOT buy the UAD Everything bundle, but cherry pick what you want/will use.

Bear in mind that recording thru UAD plugins via a Satellite is likely to be disappointing if you are at all sensitive to latency. And while the AD SHARC DSP chips are not powerhouses these days, having several on tap does make a difference in CPU load mixing large numbers of tracks.

That said, the Fabfilter stuff is excellent and will serve well if you are not looking for specific "color" devices or vintage emulations.

I guess what I'm suggesting is if you really have the UAD itch, scratch it, but don't spend all $7000 on it at once.

As far as native alternatives, I think it is pick & choose. There are few companies who are outstanding across the entire range where a subscription makes sense.

And like others have mentioned, are there other aspects of your studio that might warrant some/all of the investment more (acoustic treatment, sample libraries, synths, monitors, microphones, etc.)


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## robgb (Apr 14, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Why is everybody (except José) trying to talk her out of this?
> 
> Admittedly, if you're using only samples or pure electronic sounds, maybe the plugins matter less? IDK. I love the UAD sound and I always include some live elements, even if it's just me playing. Plenty of Famous People use them too and some of those people have pretty good ears. They can afford whatever they want, and UAD is what they chose. Besides, when I change OS or hardware, they don't sting me for unnecessary upgrades or paid "maintenance" or something.
> 
> ...


They're trying to talk her out of it because the cost is too high, and any plugin that requires you to buy proprietary gear in order to use it is probably a bad idea in the long run.


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## wst3 (Apr 14, 2020)

TL;DR - I would not invest in the all plugins bundle, there is simply too much you will likely never use, and the savings is good, but not that good. I would invest in UA!

two more cents... (possibly overcharging?)

I have a quad PCIe card and an Apollo Twin USB Duo, and a ton of their plugins. I started with UA when it was marketed by Mackie, so my collection has grown largely on sales.

I do not regret it at all.

There are things that UA can do that no native plug-in can match, at least not as of today:
- the unison enabled preamplifiers and amplifiers are heads and shoulders above the rest. I've compared some of the plugins that are available in native format and there simply is no comparison. The Unison version react more like hardware, difficult to demonstrate here, but the difference is real, at least to me.
- there are plug-ins that simply are not available anywhere else - the Cooper Timecube, the Oceanway room, and the Capital chambers come immediately to mind. And these are three of my must have tools.
- for the rest there are native versions, and some of them are similar, and some are not, but even the ones that are not similar are not necessarily better or worse, they are simply different.
- there are exceptions (of course) - their dBX 160 is, to my ears indistinguishable from the hardware (and I spent more than a few years with nothing but a couple 160s in the rack.) Their Teletronix and Urei emulations are fantastic, not an exact copy of any of the hardware I used, but variations in hardware are real, and I like the devices they opted to model a lot. Kind of a "best of" approach?
- and then there is the ability to off-load some of the processing, which can be a big help.

Which is not to suggest there are not disadvantages:
- it is not an inexpensive system. This can be mitigated through sales, but it is still a big investment.
- it drives me batty that they won't extend their emulations - how cool if they would add modern features, similar to the way that Brainworx extends their models for their native line.
- and you can run out of horsepower. I have six cores and I will run out of DSP, not the end of the world, but I can't justify upgrading to an octo right at the moment.
- and they do favor Thunderbolt, and the Mac, so us poor PC users are playing catch up. I'd dearly love to upgrade to an x8 interface, but that means replacing my PC, my Twin, and adding the x8, and that is not practical right now, especially since the PC is doing just fine.

If I were in your shoes (lovely shoes to be in in fact) I'd buy an octo, either the satellite or the PCIe card, depending on my computer. And I'd get either a Twin or one of the rack mount interfaces, again dependent a little bit on the PC, and a lot on how many analog audio channels you need.

An important note, not UA exclusive, but ASIO will only allow one driver to be active, Mac OSX has a way to aggregate different drivers, Windows does not. So the safest solution to expanding I/O is to stick with UA Thunderbolt devices - again, gets pretty pricey!

But I digress - get an interface and a card or satellite, and this will get you a handful of plugins. Then start auditioning plugins, you will have several thousand left to make purchases as you need them.

You do not need dozens of any specific category, but you will probably want several across the line.

Some of my favorites, in no particular order:
- the Urei 1176, the Teletronix LA-2, and the dBX 160. The Fairchild plugins are pretty cool too.
- The API, GMW, Harrison, Trident, Maag, Cambridge, and Pultec equalizers.
- The EMT Plate 140, the Lexicon 224 and 480, and the RMX16 reverbs
- The Oceanway room and the Capital Chambers
- All the delays and modulation plugins (I'm an effects junkie, if you don't use delays a lot then maybe not)
- Similarly, if you record electric guitar all the Ampeg, Suhr, Fender, Marshall, Fuchs and Friedman simulations, and especially the Chandler GAV19T amplifier simulations.
- If you record with microphones then the Neve, Helios, and V76 preamplifiers and the Townsend Labs Putnam and Oceanway collections are a must.

These are the things that pop to mind, the things I use all the time. There are others that I turn to often as well, just not as often.

But your tastes will be different, and you can try all of them for 14 days, which is plenty of time to evaluate.


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## JohnG (Apr 14, 2020)

wst3 said:


> get an interface and a card or satellite, and this will get you a handful of plugins. Then start auditioning plugins, you will have several thousand left to make purchases as you need them.
> 
> You do not need dozens of any specific category, but you will probably want several across the line.
> 
> Some of my favorites, in no particular order:



Great post, Bill. A sensible middle ground, and interesting to read your favourites.


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## Iswhatitis (Apr 14, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Put the $7K in a high interest bearing checking account until you decide what to do.
> 
> As many have stated, unless you have a pressing need, there is no rush. Take advantage of the sales that inevitably pop up; you can get a much bigger bang for your buck when the sales are 50% or more. How about $14,000 worth?
> 
> ...


I sort of agree with Mike, but since we are going to enter a Great Depression I'd wait for the market to really bottom and then buy in. After you make a killing then you can buy whatever you want. The world is going to discover that Covid19 is going to do way more damage than imaginable. I am assuming at least 2 million Americans will die from it or possibly way more. Tragically, the closing of the Smithfield plant the other day is a bad omen for what is to come. Price gouging will hit the food market and grocery stores will go empty everywhere. If they try to reopen the economy and end stay at home then death will skyrocket again and then everyone will realize there is no way to reopen the economy without massive casualties. Unless you lost someone to Covid19 already this is going to get significantly worse. I doubt they find a vaccine for years since this is an offshoot of SARS and they still can't find a vaccine for that virus. I am sorry to be the bearer of horrendous news but things are going to get way worse. I suspect rationing will eventually happen too.


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## bill5 (Apr 14, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Why is everybody (except José) trying to talk her out of this?


To point out how much spending wisely matters and how severely it can impact one's life in the long run. It's not even about talking her out of it per se, but that she think long and hard about how much money she is spending and whether worth it. 

Why are several of you trying to talk her into it without knowing whether she can really afford to spend such a massive amount of money on something when it's not even necessary? She already has the Fabfilter stuff which is quite good and some would argue better than UAD. Even people with UAD stuff here are debating how good it is.


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## Valérie_D (Apr 14, 2020)

Thank you all so much for chiming in!

Valérie


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## JohnG (Apr 14, 2020)

bill5 said:


> Why are several of you trying to talk her into it without knowing whether she can really afford to spend such a massive amount of money on something when it's not even necessary? She already has the Fabfilter stuff which is quite good and some would argue better than UAD. Even people with UAD stuff here are debating how good it is.



I hear you, but I view the cost of building a studio rather differently. Compared with the opportunity cost of trying to build a career as a composer, $7k or even $70k is just not that much, certainly not "massive." People spend $20-70k on a car and then balk at buying this or that library or an extra computer -- baffles me.

Valérie has been at this for a while and she wants to go somewhere with it. Someone has generously offered to fund the purchase and, if you want to be a success at this, sooner or later (sooner) you need live players. In my view, that's where good plugins and mixing shine.

IDK how much FabFilter she has. I have some too; over the years I've wasted money on some purchases, but UAD has been great. So is FabFilter. Ever checked out Junkie XL's setup? He has everything. I think that's how it is now; you need a big palette and plenty of toys to make it all shine.

I like the suggestion of buying a little at a time that @wst3 proposed above -- quite sensible.

In the end, your composing is indispensable for success, but the importance today of post-production and mixing has grown and grown. I would prefer to write notes with a pencil, but that is unrealistic today.


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## robgb (Apr 14, 2020)

Iswhatitis said:


> I am sorry to be the bearer of horrendous news but things are going to get way worse.


Not the bearer of bad news, but the bearer of just another opinion. I'll listen to the medical community when I want Covid-19 information. But thanks for your uplifting post.


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## jsheaucsb (Apr 14, 2020)

UAD is next level. You will not regret having it


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## easyrider (Apr 14, 2020)

jsheaucsb said:


> UAD is next level. You will not regret having it



Its not though...


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## jsheaucsb (Apr 14, 2020)

Let me just elaborate real quick:

Native alternatives are increasingly good. Fabfilter, Acoustica, Kush, Soundtoys etc.

But in my template the number of UAD plugins instantiated is in the dozens and many have no suitable alternatives. The Lex 224, EMT 140/250, El Fatso, Oceanway Studios, Capitol Chambers, Manley, Fender, etc.

You're welcome to dissent, but have you tried them? I own a lot of stuff and UAD is a firm mainstay and will be for some time


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## robgb (Apr 14, 2020)

Here's my philosophy about plugins in general. Not one lay listener (and I include your average film director) has ever said, "Gee, I wonder what reverb plugin he's using."

Now, I'll admit there are some that I personally prefer, but the differences between most plugins seem to be more about price than quality.


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## Living Fossil (Apr 14, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Valérie has been at this for a while and she wants to go somewhere with it. Someone has generously offered to fund the purchase and, if you want to be a success at this, sooner or later (sooner) you need live players. In my view, that's where good plugins and mixing shine.



John, i agree with most of your arguments, however, let me add an aspect that i think is relevant:

Let's assume the whole budget is spent on UAD gear.
Now she has a good environment to record at a high quality. However, what if she hasn't got really good microphones?
Amounts of money are always relative.
Out of 7k i would for sure spend a part of the money on quality microphones.
And - if this is not already done - on appropriate room treatment.
I know there are (experienced) people who don't rely that much on this, but it depends on lot of aspects. For me personally, treating my room had a huge impact. Not because it made my ears better suddenly, but because it changed what i'm hearing in my environment and how that translates to the outer world.
Quality loudspeakers would be another thing that comes to my mind.

Therefore i think with a certain amount of money at one's disposal it's important to think of different relevant aspects. The comparison with Junkie XL also should include an overall image over the relations of costs spent on different components - synthies, computers, software, assistants and involved musicians etc etc.

There's the saying that a chain is as strong as its weakest part. Same goes for studio environment.
World class preamps with not so good mics don't necessarily give you better results as world class mics with average preamps (and of course world class preamps with world class mics with world class musicians will top both...  )


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## BradHoyt (Apr 14, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Why is everybody (except José) trying to talk her out of this?
> 
> Admittedly, if you're using only samples or pure electronic sounds, maybe the plugins matter less? IDK. I love the UAD sound and I always include some live elements, even if it's just me playing. Plenty of Famous People use them too and some of those people have pretty good ears. They can afford whatever they want, and UAD is what they chose. Besides, when I change OS or hardware, they don't sting me for unnecessary upgrades or paid "maintenance" or something.
> 
> ...



UAD hardware based plugins have been around for over a generation. I know they're very good too, but the days of needing hardware to power your plugins because the CPU can't handle it are largely in the past. I think people kinda want to talk her out of it because they know that, these days, the plugins that come with DAWs plus ones you can get at good prices from plugin developers will yield similar results while spending about 1/7th the amount of money. As for me, I would recommend just getting the DAW first and explore and access the included plugins. At that point, one would be in a better position to decide if they need to invest more $$ in addition plugins, whether that be from third party software developers or the hardware powered UAD plugins. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.


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## easyrider (Apr 14, 2020)

jsheaucsb said:


> Let me just elaborate real quick:
> 
> Native alternatives are increasingly good. Fabfilter, Acoustica, Kush, Soundtoys etc.
> 
> ...



Warren Huart is a producer ,has and SSL desk...and his favourite plugin is the Waves MV2 costing $29

UAD make decent plugins but their not top tier untouchable plugins...far from it...A lot of the guitar and bass amp stuff is developed by Brainworx ...which is Plugin Alliance....

Then of course you have Sonnox and Empirical labs....etc...all these plugins I have

Have you tired the New compressors from Arturia ? The Pre amps ? Things have moved on and DSP and being tied to hardware is no longer as crucial as it once was

Just Sayin


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## JohnG (Apr 14, 2020)

Such a classic v.i. thread. The OP asks about UAD and then people write about all the other stuff she should buy instead.

Nobody on this thread knows, as far as I know, what Valérie already has, except that she's posted music before and so most likely has a DAW and all that kit already.



Living Fossil said:


> i would for sure spend a part of the money on quality microphones



A good mic is great if you're a songwriter. If I remember right, she's not. She wants to write for orchestra and for media projects -- apologies if I'm wrong. 

I have some really nice microphones and preamps that get used for soloists periodically. For that they are indispensable, but most of the time, even for solos, I go elsewhere, to a small, high-quality studio. It's a lot of $ to have sitting about.



BradHoyt said:


> UAD hardware based plugins have been around for over a generation.



Yes, the old ones. I had one of those and it was ok / not bad at all. The new Satellite is much better and the Apollo better still, from what I can tell not owning one. It's an interface and effects and it has hardly any latency.

Valérie is not some kid. I expect she can make up her mind and decide for herself. Hopefully all the back and forth will be beneficial.

Kind regards,

John


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## easyrider (Apr 14, 2020)

JohnG said:


> If I remember right, she's not. She wants to write for orchestra and for media projects -- apologies if I'm wrong.



Then a huge amount of the plugins she will not need or ever use


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## Living Fossil (Apr 14, 2020)

JohnG said:


> I have some really nice microphones and preamps that get used for soloists periodically. For that they are indispensable, but most of the time, even for solos, I go elsewhere, to a small, high-quality studio.



Ok, i got you wrong, i thought you were pointing at features of UAD making specially sense if you record at your studio...
And of course I'm not assuming that Valérie cannot decide for herself. I was just trying (as we all are) to give her my perspective. I thought that was the motivation to start this thread.
(and i have to add that personally i love to record soloists at my place, and also my piano or myself playing other instruments. But i'm d'accord, while i have the grounds well covered, if it comes to the really expensive microphones, i rent them for the reasons you named...)


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## BradHoyt (Apr 14, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Such a classic v.i. thread. The OP asks about UAD and then people write about all the other stuff she should buy instead.



Being annoyed about this doesn't help when people suggest what else she spends her money on when asking about one particular product. The whole point of deciding what to buy is to consider all the options.


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## JohnG (Apr 14, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Then a huge amount of the plugins she will not need or ever use



So, that's why @wst3 suggested, and I seconded, that she get some to start and add on later. Compared with a few libraries that we've all bought and found wanting, a carefully selected group of UAD plugs on sale -- what's not to like?



BradHoyt said:


> Being annoyed about this doesn't help when people suggest what else she spends her money on when asking about one particular product. The whole point of deciding what to buy is to consider all the options.



I'm not annoyed -- you misread me. I just think it's goofy to tell a grownup that, instead of buying UAD plugins she should buy different libraries or microphones or something completely different, like stocks. 

Hans uses UAD, Junkie uses UAD -- yes, I know they use other stuff too, including FabFilter -- but it's not like UAD is rubbish. Maybe she wants to sound like those guys? IDK


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## easyrider (Apr 14, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Maybe she wants to sound like those guys? IDK




Right so a plugin now maketh the man or the woman?


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## Ashermusic (Apr 14, 2020)

easyrider said:


> Its not though...



Obviously subjective, but I think that many of theirs are among the best.


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## Thundercat (Apr 14, 2020)

JohnG said:


> I just think it's goofy to tell a grownup that, instead of buying UAD plugins she should buy different libraries or microphones or something completely different, like stocks.


Might be the best advice in the whole thread 

And I didn't say stocks, I said put it in a high interest savings account until she knew for sure what she wanted.

Gear loses value like bananas.


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## labornvain (Apr 14, 2020)

Weather UAD plugins are worth it or not depends upon your situation.

If you've got money to burn, and you want to spring for that extra .01% quality difference that you get with a uad SSL mod versus the waves version which I think you can get for $50, then of course it's worth it. Because you have money to burn.

But if this is a one-time cash infusion, and you don't already own the things that will really make a difference in the quality of your Productions, things like a really really good microphone, then blowing Seven Grand on a bunch of plug-ins is an incredible waste of money.

I have most of UAD plugins, and I like them a lot. But they don't make one single plug in that will really take a mediocre or even a good production, and make it great. In fact, the overwhelming majority of people would never even be able to hear the difference between a UAD Pultec and one of the countless other Pultec emulators that you can get for under a hundred bucks.

UAD plugins are expensive. And the hardware is expensive if you want to run more than a few plug-ins simultaneously.

For someone on a budget, it's a bad deal. Its proprietary software that requires using proprietary hardware. Even for someone with money to burn, it's not a particularly good deal.

So if Valerie already has a kick-ass studio, a $5,000 vocal mic, a nice grand piano, and scores of other things that really make a difference in the studio, and on top of that $7,000 is not much money to her, by all means. Blow it on a bunch of plug-ins.


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## robgb (Apr 15, 2020)

JohnG said:


> Such a classic v.i. thread. The OP asks about UAD and then people write about all the other stuff she should buy instead.


Most people like to know about alternatives, especially if they won't be as big of an investment.


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## easyrider (Apr 15, 2020)

robgb said:


> Most people like to know about alternatives, especially if they won't be as big of an investment.



Exactly, and in order to ascertain whether something "is worth it" one needs to make comparisons with other products available.


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## khollister (Apr 15, 2020)

The trick with UAD is to shop sales, coupons and retailer deals. I picked up my second Octo satellite a couple months ago from Amazon - it included a 3 plugin Custom bundle for only about $150 over the price of a bare Octo. Plus UAD was offering free plugins (Lex 480, Cap Chambers, Avalon 737 & UA 175/176) on Octo's at the time. Upon registering, you get access to the Custom Shop (50% off) as well as coupons. I built out my collection to include everything I would really use/want and my average cost per plugin was quite low - probably less than $50. They had a deal last year where if you bought an Apollo X8/X16, you got a free Octo satellite.

Nobody pays retail for UAD.

And UAD threads always turn out like this (and if you think it's bad here, try this on Gearslutz!). I get the argument that mixing with Waves, Tracks, Slate, SoftTube, Fabfilter, Vienna Suite, PA, etc may not be the ultimate factor in getting the gig or even noticeable by the client. And I'm retired (both from the day job and from making music for money), so I have no clients except for me. But I still choose to use UAD for many things because I can hear the difference, it's quicker to get where I want to go sonically and the DSP is very handy to keep from further loading my CPU, even with my iMac Pro 10 core.

I also use a Townsend L22 microphone, and the Bill Putnam & Oceanway Sphere mic models are UAD-only. And the Unison preamps with the Apollo, and ...

There is a race to bottom on so many things creative these days (don't get me started on photography), and the UAD hate is IMHO part of that. I chose the Townsend mic because I couldn't justify spending $10K+ on high end microphones. But I don't go around spamming every microphone thread with "buy a Townsend Sphere - all those fancy mics are a waste of money". And, yes, I do love the Sphere


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## easyrider (Apr 15, 2020)

khollister said:


> The trick with UAD is to shop sales, coupons and retailer deals. I picked up my second Octo satellite a couple months ago from Amazon - it included a 3 plugin Custom bundle for only about $150 over the price of a bare Octo. Plus UAD was offering free plugins (Lex 480, Cap Chambers, Avalon 737 & UA 175/176) on Octo's at the time. Upon registering, you get access to the Custom Shop (50% off) as well as coupons. I built out my collection to include everything I would really use/want and my average cost per plugin was quite low - probably less than $50. They had a deal last year where if you bought an Apollo X8/X16, you got a free Octo satellite.
> 
> Nobody pays retail for UAD.
> 
> ...



Your expensive dongle got you trapped!

(Just kidding)


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## Zero&One (Apr 15, 2020)

labornvain said:


> Weather UAD plugins are worth it or not depends upon your situation.



This 100%.
Only OP can decide this.


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## Ashermusic (Apr 15, 2020)

labornvain said:


> with money to burn, it's not a particularly good deal.
> 
> So if Valerie already has a a $5,000 vocal mic



It depends on the singer. I recorded my album vocals with a $500 EV RE-20, because I sound better on it than a Neumann U47.

And as Bill pointed out, a Sphere with the UAD plug-ins gets you lots of good microphone sounds. Actually even the Slate one does pretty well.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Apr 15, 2020)

Why would you buy the WHOLE collection?!
UAD plugins are phenomenal.
Their best emulations are in a class of their own.
But buying the whole collection is a waste of money.
Research and find out what you need and wait for a sale (one will come soon, probably before the summer)
In the meantime, you can get their octo card or an Apollo x and get familiar with the whole concept, plus you will get a few free plugins to get you started.


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## Patrick de Caumette (Apr 15, 2020)

Anyway, just did a search:
you can get a UAD octo for $1200, and there is a sale at UAD so you can get the 10 plugins bundle for $1000, for a total of $2200.


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## Michael Antrum (Apr 15, 2020)

I have UAD, and like them very much, but I imagine that getting the whole shooting match would be complete overkill. I have a decent selection that I've collected over the years and added to during sales and the like.

One thing worth noting is that with UAD when you actually install you get the full set and you have a 30 day trial on every single plugin - You can start these 30 day trials going individually, so you can test and work out if you really want a particular one. Every time you buy a new plugin, the 30 day trial counter is reset, and you can start trilling them again.

So I do like them, particularly the Unison technology, and the interfaces are good too. But I could never envisage a situation where Id want the full set.


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## khollister (Apr 15, 2020)

Here's some recommendations if you want to get started with one of the Custom bundles:


Lexicon 480L
Capitol Chambers
Ocean Way studios 
Massenburg MDWEQ5 parametric EQ 
K-Stereo processor 
Neve 1073 preamp/EQ collection (mkII version) if you do recording
LA-2 collection (mkII version)
Century Tube channel strip - generic tube channel strip/preamp
Ampex ATR-102
Empirical Labs Fatso
These represent IMHO the stuff that is pretty general purpose and either unique to UAD or things which they do better than a native alternative. The Neve & Century are UNISON and the Century is based on the UA 610 A/B preamps. If you get this as part of a Custom bundle (where price doesn't matter), you might be better served getting the 610 A/B collection.

If you need chorus type effects (guitar/synth/e-piano), the Roland & Dytronic emulations are excellent along with the Cooper Time Cube (i.e. the garden hose delay).

There are a ton of outstanding vintage compressors available depending on what flavor you like - Fairchild mkII, 1176 mkII, API bus compressor, SSL G bus compressor, Distressor, UA 175/176 etc. Demo and see what you like.

The Helios, SSL channel strip, other Neve channel strips, UA 610 and API Vision channel strip are all excellent UNISON preamps, if you like what one of those does with your microphones.

I'm not a guitar player, so I can't advise on the amp sims.


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## goonman (Apr 15, 2020)

Valerie - as you can see..the gamut of opinion and suggestion runs from north to south, east to west...I hope by now though you've been able to glean from all this some relevant questions about your own process. Are you mixing, mastering, tracking? UAD plugins emulate old technology that would generally cost thousands if you were to purchase the hardware...so comparatively speaking you do get "for a fraction of the cost" the option to adorn your tracks with proven and exceptional audio gear. 

However, the difference in having ALL that software is knowing How to use it, When to use it, and what style of music to use it on for the greatest impact... What do you plan to do with it anyway? Build a studio to rent out, use yourself, or hire an engineer? Honestly, there are less expensive alternatives that are just as good. You just have to dig a little deeper and continue doing what you did at the beginning of this post...ask questions. 

Ultimately the proof will be in quality of your workflow, musicianship or samples used, microphone/s, interface, speakers, creative ability, computer processor, etc.. oh yea plugins too. Obviously you have more than 7Gs, however, the most pressing caveat is whether to spend all that on UAD plugins...prevailing forum wisdom says "No - Wait".


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## wst3 (Apr 15, 2020)

if I might, I have one more comment and then I'm out...

I've been involved with professional audio, in one form or another, for over 40 years. The race to the bottom is real, and I choose to not participate.

"Good enough is the new quality" - can't remember who said it, but it is true. And it irks me.

It irks me that someone would listen to and judge a recording based on a lossy MP3 copy through ear buds. Don't get me wrong, that's a very convenient setup, but it is not a setting for critical listening.

It irks me more that people no longer strive for excellence, they settle for good enough. We all lose when that happens.

I am NOT suggesting that one should spend every penny they have on gear, but rather that one should make informed decisions based on their goals, their workflow, their income, and yes, opinions of others sometimes.

Two examples -

I also have a Townsend Labs Sphere L22, I think the microphone alone was worth what I paid for it - it is a great sounding and extremely well behave microphone. Add in the software and it is a mind-blowing experience. I have not used the Slate virtual microphone in a long time, but my experience then was not entirely positive. I think I knew I had to own an L22 withing 5 minutes of opening the box. OK, maybe 10 minutes.

That meant a compromise - it would be a while, if ever, before I bought a "really cool" microphone. Which works out for me because I no longer record others, and I have a very nice microphone locker already - no ELA M 251s mind you, but some really good workhorse microphones, that I still use along side the L22.

There are two microphones I still dream of owning, two pairs actually - a pair of U67s and a pair of KM84s. I'm less excited about the U67s because the Townsend Labs model sounds as good as any U67 I've used - that could be poor memory, or I want it to after the purchase, regardless I am really pretty happy with the U-67 models, and have no need for the real hardware anymore (especially since a U67 in pristine condition would be nigh impossible to find!)

The KM-84 is a different deal - there is a model of the KM-54 (tube predecessor to the solid state KM-84) in one of the Townsend Labs collections. It is also very good, but it is not a replacement for the real hardware. There is something missing in terms of the sound, and it is impossible to place the L22 the same way I'd place a KM-84.

And this is not fantasy or even nostalgia - I spent a little over a month with a pair of KM-84s late last year. I had borrowed them to prove to myself that they were not all that special. Sadly I was wrong, they are that special.

A pair in decent shape would cost about $3k, which I could afford, except I no longer record anyone but myself, the microphones would never pay for themselves. Pity! All my other microphones paid for themselves long ago. I was willing to gamble that the L22 might, or might not pay for itself. Can't make that same gamble with a pair of KM-84s. So I just have to get better at using the microphones I own.

Example 2 - where I have gone fully over to the side of "good enough". I still play out (well before the lockdown) a few times a year. I have all the guitars, amplifiers, and stomp boxes I've collected over the last 40 years. I can get some amazing tones with them.

When I play out I take one, maybe two guitars, and a Line6 Helix. No one in the audience knows, or cares, that I do not have a Marshall stack and a Fender Twin behind me, they couldn't tell the difference in the settings where I play.

I'm not selling off the gear, and I still use it for recording - some of the time. But I won't lug that stuff out for a casual gig or even a pit gig. AND, music directors like me better when I show up with a backpack instead of a cart full of gear.

All this to suggest that everything, including "good enough" plugins, has a place.

If you care enough to strive for that last 10% (or 20% or whatever rule you prefer) then invest in the best you can afford. Even if you are the only one that knows, there is a benefit for always shooting for the best. And there is a benefit to only investing what you can afford.

Tricky balancing act, glad I collected the majority of my gear decades ago!!!

So to Val my advice remains the same... start small, an interface and an accellerator, and a handful of plugins you can use on most of your projects. Add plugins, and even horsepower as sales allow, and needs demand.

I think the UA plugins are better, to my ears, and worth the investment. Only you can decide if that is true for you.

One last reason to start small(ish)... should you decide that I am full of (fill in the blank) and they are no better than their less expensive counterparts you will have no problem re-selling, and you will lose very little of your investment. If you purchase the entire collection you will have a lot more trouble finding a buyer.

OK... I'm done<G>!


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## Ashermusic (Apr 15, 2020)

As usual Bill, knowledgeable, thoughtful, and common sense .


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 7, 2020)

Valérie_D said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Hope you are safe in these particular times.
> 
> ...


Has anyone compared the sound of the brainworx plugins in UAD with the native versions of the same plugins? Love to know what people think 💭


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 7, 2020)

NoOneKnowsAnything said:


> Has anyone compared the sound of the brainworx plugins in UAD with the native versions of the same plugins? Love to know what people think 💭



It’s the same DSP so they should sound the same.


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## classified_the_x (Jul 7, 2020)

wst3 said:


> if I might, I have one more comment and then I'm out...
> 
> I've been involved with professional audio, in one form or another, for over 40 years. The race to the bottom is real, and I choose to not participate.
> 
> ...



It's a good platform and all, but since I need to use more plugins than my Quad DSP supports, I got used to using native plugins such as Fabfilter, Waves and some Plugin Alliance. Sometimes other brands too. Sincerely, I could live without UAD at this stage, but their stuff sounds good, like the Fairchild limiter.

Regarding OP, U$7k might be too much for a UAD budget, I have about 14-20 plugins including the freebies and that is enough for me. That money is way better spent on some external hardware from Kush or API perhaps, or even a high end workstation keyboard or synthetizer.

BTW, the Quad is enough if I'm controlling the instances I use. I used to have a Solo PCI-E so quad was a big upgrade (Thermionic Culture Vulture fan here)

Remember it's no good to have all the plugins considering you always will have a DSP bottleneck (no matter what DSP unit you got)


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## KEM (Jul 8, 2020)

My best friend is a mixing engineer and has a lot of UAD stuff, but I know for sure he’d say to get the Slate bundle, much better value and their stuff is really good


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## vicontrolu (Jul 8, 2020)

The difference between native plugins and UAD´s was enormous some years ago. Now they still remain excellent plugins but, to me at least, the gap is not that big anymore. Price is a factor as well: we have plugins costing 30$ that sound terrific(MJUC).

So i´d rather go for something native, scalable, not hardware dependant and invest my money on other areas. I am no mixer though, just a plain composer/sound designer.


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## wst3 (Jul 8, 2020)

ALittleNightMusic said:


> It’s the same DSP so they should sound the same.


Actually, the algorithm may be the same, but the implementation will, by necessity, be different, since one is written for a general purpose CPU and the other is written for a special purpose (DSP) cpu. I doubt that the differences are material, but I would not expect a null test to be perfectly zero.

And to the previous question, I am curious as hell myself, but can't bring myself to spend money on two different versions of any of the plugins just to satisfy that curiousity.

I own a ton of plugins from both companies, but have yet to duplicate<G>


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## jamwerks (Jul 8, 2020)

Which ones are from Brainworx?


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## GtrString (Jul 8, 2020)

The "real" prices are what you get quoted around the holiday season late November/ December, mostly around 50% off. I would wait till around then and save 3k+


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## gsilbers (Jul 8, 2020)

Any thoughts on Apples transition to ARM cpu and how it will affect existing UAD systems?


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## wst3 (Jul 8, 2020)

UA is probably one of the companies with the least to do, since their code runs on their hardware they only need to update the drivers (which is not trivial, I know), and maybe part of the console.

In theory, an ARM processor might be an even better host for the SHARC chips - in theory anyway<G>.


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## Guy Rowland (Jul 8, 2020)

Did you get 'em, Val?

I'm three months late, but personally I'm in the "no" camp. I think they make most sense when used live in a great portable rack. In the TV industry it's very common for mixers to bring in an Apollo and they're good to go. For general DAW use... there are some UAD gems, but imo as a rule they're not universally better than other quality plugs that don't have the hardware and cost overhead. I have a ton of them shared with a colleague but, in short, I just don't believe they're a unique or sure fire way to sound better.


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## ALittleNightMusic (Jul 8, 2020)

I'll add my 2 cents but don't expect to change your mind (or the other folks here). I think one important thing to keep in mind is the only way to really compare UAD plugins with others is to actually have a UAD system to use to do the comparison. Often times you'll hear opinions from folks that don't have a system and just dislike the business model / concept of a DSP-based system.

I would never buy a UAD version of a specific plugin that has a native option as well - so for example, all the Plugin Alliance / Brainworx stuff or the Softube stuff. Now there ARE reasons you might want to do this from a stability or real-time processing standpoint, but I personally don't need those for these plugins.

In terms of sound, it is very subjective of course. UA does have some extreme DSP heavyweights working for them, so it's not like they're just going to be cranking out horrible plugins. Whether or not they sound special to you is another matter. Personally, I've found their API EQs for example to sound better than Slate's. Similarly, their API 2500 is just phenomenal - especially compared to Waves or TrackComp. Their 1176s MK2 are very well regarded as are the LA-2As. They also have some unique plugins that you can't find elsewhere, such as Capital Chambers or Ocean Way Studios. Whether or not those are useful to you is a question only you can answer (I personally find Capital Chambers insanely good - but UA does reverbs well in general).

As was mentioned, you should never buy UAD plugins at full price - there's always a sale around the corner and sometimes with coupons. Additionally, there are a ton of native plugins out there as well - some direct replacements for UAD plugins (and some unique in their own right). If you look at the very top tier of mix engineers, the ones that can use and have used everything, you'll usually find a healthy mix of manufacturers. Now, there is a lot of usage of UAD at that top level, so clearly the tools are delivering when called upon and have an appeal.

Lastly, I'll say this - UA has supported their platform for years. I have plugins that I purchased over 10 years ago and that still work perfectly now (though may need a UI update). I never really have to worry about CPU issues when loading up plugins - just need to manage the DSP, but I know exactly how much I can get out of the system in that case. Whether or not you value this stability / reliability / predictability is totally up to you.


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## NoOneKnowsAnything (Jul 8, 2020)

classified_the_x said:


> It's a good platform and all, but since I need to use more plugins than my Quad DSP supports, I got used to using native plugins such as Fabfilter, Waves and some Plugin Alliance. Sometimes other brands too. Sincerely, I could live without UAD at this stage, but their stuff sounds good, like the Fairchild limiter.
> 
> Regarding OP, U$7k might be too much for a UAD budget, I have about 14-20 plugins including the freebies and that is enough for me. That money is way better spent on some external hardware from Kush or API perhaps, or even a high end workstation keyboard or synthetizer.
> 
> ...


You can currently buy an Apollo x6 for $1,800 and then get the Ultimate 8 upgrade direct from UA for $999 as long as you have 25 total purchased plugins first which won’t cost you nearly as much as you might think as you get 9 purchased promotional plugins for free when you buy the Apollo x6 and many of the UAD-2 plugins are 50% off currently plus the UA store gives you a $25 coupon each time u buy one plugin so only buy one at a time and only buy the cheapest plugins that don’t come with Ultimate 8 bundle. In the end you will spend about $600-$700 buying about 16 additional plugins one at a time using a $25 off coupon each time. Then the upgrade price for the Ultimate 8 bundle falls to $999. So in the end you will have spent $3,500 total for the Apollo x6, the Ultimate 8 bundle and another 16 plugins that are not included in the Ultimate 8 bundle which means in the end you will own around 120 UAD-2 plugins and an Apollo x6. For $2,000 more you could buy two (2)Octo Satellite TB3 UAD-2 units, so for $5,500 total you would then have 22 sharc chips (Apollo x6 & two Octo Satellite TB3 UAD-2 units) and 120+ UAD-2 plugins to use with them. Plus, if you buy two UAD-2 Octo Satellites within 30 days you get another 6 free UAD-2 plugins to choose from and if you wait for the next UAD-2 Octo Satellite promotion I’m sure you’d get even more promotional UAD-2 plugins for free with each Octo Satellite. That’s way less than $7,000 and you would have a killer setup and in the end probably own every single UAD-2 plugin too!!!

If you purchase the two UAD-2 Octo Satellites TB3 units first during the next promotion you will more than likely get 5 free promotional plugins for each unit and then the 6 additional free plugins for buying two units within 30 days. Hence that just saved you about $700 so now the Apollo x6, 2 Satellites and upgrade to Ultimate 8 bundle cost you $4,800 and you have around 120 UAD-2 plugins too.

So there are three different ways to get a substantial UAD-2 system for either $3,500, $4,800 or $5,500.

You’re welcome 😇


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## jononotbono (Jul 8, 2020)

As a recent newcomer to UAD-2 Plugins, I love them. I have an Apollo Twin X and what I specifically love about it are the Unity Preamps and being able to load a plugin, such as the API stuff, on a Mic and have no noticeable latency when using in a template with many tracks. I'm also a Guitarist so I love being able to plug a Guitar straight into the Hi-Z Instrument input and play with no noticeable latency and use plugins recording either dry, wet, or both. For me, this is just an amazing front end. As for the sound of the plugins, I can't imagine not using them now I've begun to delve into this world. They sound amazing! And they are basically as addictive as sample libraries. Wanting all of them but do I need all of them? That's the toughest question of all time. Probably.


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## Valérie_D (Jul 17, 2020)

Yeah...I bought the whole uad suite..thanks for chiming in everyone!


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