# Allegro Deciso for Wind Band



## Sicmu (Jul 24, 2005)

Here is my first composition for Symphonic Wind Band, it's a short piece, maybe to short : I'm not completely happy with the abrupt coda, but longer pieces are even more difficult to get performed.


Stream : http://your-sicmu.zftp.com/Allegro_Deciso.m3u

download : http://your-sicmu.zftp.com/Allegro_Deciso.mp3

Thanks for listening.


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## Craig Sharmat (Jul 24, 2005)

The writing of course is great. I love the Fugue parts btw. My guess is you walk around being thankful there is midi to realize your pieces, and then curse it for being so difficult to work with. I would so much like to hear your work played live. It deserves to be.


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## lux (Jul 24, 2005)

yeah, great writing and harmonies. 

You should really enlarge your palette of instruments. Fast playing is not Gold's cup of tea, but I guess it will be Gold pro's task.

Very nice

Luca


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## Dr.Quest (Jul 24, 2005)

Beautiful composition. This would be great live.
J


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## Sicmu (Jul 24, 2005)

Thanks for listening folks,



Craig Sharmat said:


> My guess is you walk around being thankful there is midi to realize your pieces, and then curse it for being so difficult to work with.


 Exactly, I'm often frustrated not doing exactly what I have in mind but happy to have a mock-up to listen to.






lux said:


> You should really enlarge your palette of instruments. Fast playing is not Gold's cup of tea, but I guess it will be Gold pro's task.



do you mean the woodwind playing, is there any passage in particular or the whole piece ? 
I acknowledge that I use Gold to save time but with this lib I think fast playing is better with the brass and woodwinds than with the strings


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## Evan Gamble (Jul 24, 2005)

Great to see some wind ensemble pieces, sounds great! but what about saxes?


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## TheoKrueger (Jul 25, 2005)

Hey Sicmu,

Very interesting Harmonies! This is out of the usual. I like its complexity and it sounds realistic to my ears; it has a performed feeling and the good writing of the Timpani/Crashes help add to realism as well.

It must've took ages to write this composition. Are you a classically trained musician? I can't even conceive how these harmonies are done and the compositional quality is undeniable. 

You're going places man 

Well done and keep it up!


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## lux (Jul 25, 2005)

Sicmu said:


> lux said:
> 
> 
> > You should really enlarge your palette of instruments. Fast playing is not Gold's cup of tea, but I guess it will be Gold pro's task.
> ...



I mean in general, gold has some codas on each instrument, mainly due to release samples and to the nature of the playing technique sampled. When you paint such design in harmony as in your piece, the overlapping and slower response to velocity can be sometimes an issue. Its just a matter of playing styles, I also use Gold a lot for its productivity, that's great imho.

did u apply Theo technique to all staccs? this helps a lot.

I noticed, but I could really be wrong, that u used 4 trumps. In this case I would try using solo trumpet, maybe layered two times with another articulation, I find it more manageable for fast playing. Same for horns.

minor things, as people mentioned, your nice work really deserves to be played live.

Luca


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## Sicmu (Jul 25, 2005)

Evan Gamble said:


> Great to see some wind ensemble pieces, sounds great! but what about saxes?



Actually the saxes are present ( 4 alto, 2 tenor, 1 baritone), alto clar and flugelhorn as well (the E flat clar is the only missing instrument); but most of the time they are doubling clar, horns or others instruments. I have to confess that I'm not a huge fan of sax writing in the orchestra but for having studied the score of Peter Mennin's Canzona before starting with this piece, I learned that during the tutti with brass, saxophones are note very audible.

Thanks Theo, yes I have a classical training and jazz pianist as well.

Luca, I didn't try Theo technique because I only have the sampler that comes with the gold, is it possible with this version ?
I used 4 trumpets and solo trumpet as well : considering that there are 9-10 trumpets and cornets in a wind band I could make use sometimes of a 4 trumpets unisson with 4 or 5 differents solo parts simultaneously.

Anyway I know that it does not sound the best way but I use Gold to save time for composing : you can make a 1 or 2 minute piece sounds very realistic but with a 8 minute piece it becomes more a sound enginer's job than a composer's one.


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## lux (Jul 25, 2005)

Sicmu said:


> Luca, I didn't try Theo technique because I only have the sampler that comes with the gold, is it possible with this version ?



It is only possible with Kontakt.



Sicmu said:


> Anyway I know that it does not sound the best way but I use Gold to save time for composing : you can make a 1 or 2 minute piece sounds very realistic but with a 8 minute piece it becomes more a sound enginer's job than a composer's one.



Dont worry at all, its a great piece and sounds nice 

Luca


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## TheoKrueger (Jul 25, 2005)

I'll double that Lux. It sounds real great Sicmu, have no worries!

Generally all this realism mania gets to me as well sometimes. But with your writing skills you've nothing to worry about; It forces attention to the composition and also... a non midi maniac will never understand it is not real. Also... it DOES sounds great you know....even working out of the box sounds great these days with all these giga samples. 

Who are we writing for anyway? The 20 people we've met in a forum who can hear instantly that a start time of a sample is 1 MS slow and retracts from the realism, or are we writing for the masses of young girls waiting for our autographs? 

Hmm... perhaps a third option would help.


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## Sicmu (Jul 25, 2005)

Yeah, a third option would be : writing for oneself.

Sometimes I think : the real challenge is not to write music but to get it performed, but how far should a composer go with compromise in this purpose ? 

With commercial music you know you have to do what you're payed for and it can be a lot of frustration, but on the other hand if you write exactly what you have in mind your score remains in the drawer for a long time. 

So with this piece for wind band I tried to do something for a very common ensemble but when I realize the incredible amount of good music that reamins unknown I'm discouraged and in the same time happy to be able to listen to my orchestral music (something undreamed of a century ago).


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## Thonex (Jul 25, 2005)

Sicmu,

Great composition and arrangement. As Craig said, it deserves to be played by a real ensemble. That must have taken you at least all morning to write :D

And I kept on waiting for a C major triad :lol: 

Seriously... great work.

Maybe what you can do is bring in some WW players to play it for you and maybe a couple of trumpets and leave the rest virtual... that should improve it's intent by miles.

Great job.... keep on posting.


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## fictionmusic (Jul 25, 2005)

TheoKrueger said:


> I'll double that Lux. It sounds real great Sicmu, have no worries!
> 
> Generally all this realism mania gets to me as well sometimes. But with your writing skills you've nothing to worry about; It forces attention to the composition and also... a non midi maniac will never understand it is not real. Also... it DOES sounds great you know....even working out of the box sounds great these days with all these giga samples.
> 
> .



Well said Theo. Although forums like this concentrate more on midi mockup realism, I could care less how real it sounds if the composition sounds just like a 1000 other banal hollywood scores.


This BTW doesn't...it is excellent and real enough sounding, anyone thinking of playing it will get more than a rudimentary glimpse of what it will sound like. These days conductors expect to get a midid mockup as well as scores, so you are certainly not labouring in vain by having such a detailed piece.



Sicmu said:


> Yeah, a third option would be : writing for oneself.
> 
> Sometimes I think : the real challenge is not to write music but to get it performed, but how far should a composer go with compromise in this purpose ? ".



Keep it short. Thats the best advice, if its too long it requires too many rehearsals it won't get much stage time. Also keep it in line orchestrally(instrument wise, not sound or style wise) with some other piece so that it can be programmed with similar-sized pieces. Writing for an orchestra the size of The Planets, makes no sense unless you intend for it to be performed along side of it. The forces are so large that doubles are almost always called in and most orchestras can't afford it.

But as far as compromiseing your vision. Why bother? What good can it be for you to be unsatisified with your work? I write a lot of concert stuff (and have very few recordings of it because of really stupid "Union Rules") and it gets played once in awhile. It certainly wouldn't make any sense to keep it "accesible" considering the wide range of pieces it has programmed with. Again, I find the determining factor is how well it sits with rehearsals and instrument size. 

In your case, if the night was playing other Symphonic wind pieces (like Peter Mennin's Canzona) they could easily do yours.


In case I diverge: I really like this piece Sicmu, I have listened to it three times in a row! Very well done, excellent composition, excellent midi mockup too. I agree with the others who have said it deserves to be played live. Any othe stuff?


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## Sicmu (Jul 25, 2005)

Thonex said:


> Sicmu,
> 
> And I kept on waiting for a C major triad :lol:



Thank you Thonex and the C major triad does exist = it's the very last chord played by the whole orchestra and it's a C major one for all these B flat pitched winds 

Fiction music : thanks for your advice, you know what you're talking about because got your stuff performed by real orchestras, I listened to your symphonies and string quartet ,your style is very original.

Yes I have some other stuff, the best example of not what to do when you want it played is :

http://your-sicmu.zftp.com/Chicago.m3u

it was attended to be a short easy piece describing the city of Chicago where I settled 2 years ago and it turned into a 24 minute symphonic poem very demanding (but for usual orchestral forces). 
It was funny to read the few conductors who where kind enough to reply : I have no time to listen to it, I have a pile of of Cd's on my desk and it will not be possible to play it" ( even without a listen), so congratulations for getting your symphonies performed, is it possible to hear # 2and 3 ?


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## PolarBear (Jul 25, 2005)

Very nice Sicmu! Little warning for others: 44MB download (!)

Go on and write more stuff like that!

PolarBear


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## Rob Elliott (Jul 26, 2005)

I really like the second one's (Chicago) 'variation on a theme'. It is a lesson for me to constantly introduce variety in a theme. You use the orchestra so well to define and re-define your themes. Very impressive. Nice fresh sound.

Rob


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## fictionmusic (Jul 26, 2005)

Oh Yah Sicmu! Wonderful stuff. I couldn't get the stream to work yesterday but I got it working awhile ago and have been listening to it for 21 minutes now. Excellent stuff, very dramatic, very adventurous and very accesible. Not in the least off-putting and very much in line with other American composers like Copland, and Hindemith (if you consider him American). A real sense of joy pervades the piece and an almost celebratory nature. 

I was listening to Copland this morning (Symphony#3, and Appalachian Spring) and it seems to me that your piece would sit well with his (especially #3). Gorgeous stuff, very beautiful.


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## Sicmu (Jul 26, 2005)

Thank you for taking time to listen, by today standard it's maybe a little long !

Yes this is an accesible work intended for a large audience. 
Of course this americana calls for the ghosts of Copland and Bernstein ( that'sodd : I was not aware of the Hindemith's influence, maybe it's because of the use of repeated fourth chords), and one of my strongest influence : John Williams. The funny thing is when I first posted this piece on the internet some people told me that it was impossible to identify any theme while others found it everywhere!

With the piece for Wind band I tried something more personnal, I don't know about you guys but for me it will be a long road to find my own style.

I always admire people who can write symphonies, I don't feel ready to venture into this direction but for sure I will.


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## Sicmu (Jul 27, 2005)

Thank you, I'm flattered you want more : there is a couple of pieces still online in the JW style it seems you like, I can give you the links :

http://your-sicmu.zftp.com/Predatosaurus.mp3 (just a demo for the True Strile contest I lost)

http://your-sicmu.zftp.com/Christmas_A.Millet.mp3 (a Christmas song)

http://your-sicmu.zftp.com/Princess_Maia_Theme.mp3 (an old study with the new rendering of the Gold)

http://your-sicmu.zftp.com/Appassionato.mp3 ( not a bad one but with old libraries)

http://your-sicmu.zftp.com/pirate.mp3 and 
http://your-sicmu.zftp.com/the_magic_world.mp3 (unfinished) = both with old sound libraries so...

I have more on CD back up but hard to find and if I remember the sound libraries are even older and I was really a newbie with midi mock-up.

Thank you for your interest Dogforester !


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## Sicmu (Jul 28, 2005)

Leon Willett said:


> Great stuff, Sicmu! Chicago is really fantastic.
> 
> Have you applied to get it published? Its the kind of piece that may even be sponsored by the city of Chicago if you approach it right. Perhaps there are departmens of the town hall that deal with this kind of stuff. I would love to hear this played live, as it would really soar the way you intended.
> 
> ...



Thank you for liestening Leon,

no, the music is not published, I submited it to 15 orchestras in Chicago last year and most of them never even took a listen , so you're right: I'm trying to get in touch with the department of culture and especially contemporary music of Chicago, I've got some contacts already but for me it's much more difficult than writing music !
I study in some music school in France with piano, french Horn, harmony and counterpoint but I taught myself orchestration with a lot of orchestral scores.
Unfortunately only sheet music (it's easier for me because I grew up with that) of the score exists : the midifile was so messy that I felt I have to clarify the complex rythmic changes of time signature of the first 8 minutes before going into computer scoring (Idon't know how to use Finale).


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## synergy543 (Jul 28, 2005)

Simcu,

Chicago is really quite an amazing work. Very uplifting and glorious. What a treat!

For anyone who hasn't yet heard this here is the MIDI link:

http://your-sicmu.zftp.com/Chicago.mp3

Can you tell us anything more about this?


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## Leon Willett (Jul 29, 2005)

Sicmu said:


> I submited it to 15 orchestras in Chicago last year and most of them never even took a listen



I reckon approaching the orchestra with a midi mockup is probably not the right way: they are not able to listen "through" samples the way other composers can. All they will hear is a bunch of synthy-sounding samples, and they'll probably just hate it. I think it's probably much more convincing to approach them with the score itself. You have to remember many people hate computer-generated performances both because they feel its the work of the devil, and because they view it as a threat to their livelyhood 

Also, it makes a huge difference who you actually approach. The spokesperson, manager or other administrative positions are definitely not people who are going to be open to unsollicited submissions. They are thinking about much more important things, like what they will have for lunch, stuff like that.  You need to pluck some heart-strings... The conductor is someone who might get excited about the work (I know at least one case of a completely unknown composer who approached the conductor after a concert with the score in his hand, and got put on that year's programme for a premiere). Also, featured soloists in the orchestra may get excited about it if you approach it from the perspective of "Hey, I wrote this concerto section with you in mind. I would feel priviliged if you would have a look at it. I loved your work on...bla bla bla". Do some seducing... Then they might get your piece some attention from "inside" the circle, where it completely bypasses the pile of unsollicited applications on the managers desk (prime trash-can material). 

Anyway, hope this helps a little and good luck, 

Leon


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## Sicmu (Jul 29, 2005)

Thank you very much for your advice Leon, for sure human realtions are very important (in every field), something we tend to forget when working with computers. 
There is so much music and composers, that to pick up one or two is sadly not only a matter of musical abilities.


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