# Question on Playability



## youngpokie (Dec 19, 2019)

Hello all:

I've read through many library recommendation threads and many of them seem focused on the sonority and so I find these recommendations more performance/production orientated (perhaps wrongly). My question is slightly different - could you recommend a quality library based on playability too?

Here's some background - and I apologize upfront if this is all too wordy. My style preference is in the pre-1910s classical orchestral writing (i.e. no film scoring, no easy listening, no atonal, etc). I've been studying voice leading and harmony, and just started orchestration. I've been doing a lot of SATB part writing on the piano and started orchestration with the Iconica trial (the only trial I have found available). 

So far so good, but I discovered two things that are annoying and limiting, at least at this stage:

- I started spending too much time tweaking strings at the expense of writing
- Missing articulations (e.g. there's no portamento, no detache in Iconica) 

As an example of how I study - I take a melody from my textbook, assign it to an instrument (e.g clarinet) and then harmonize it to practice voice leading and texture/voicings, etc. Then I take another melody, assign it to a different instrument (e.g. violins) and harmonize that. Then I take score examples from my book and either play them or notate them into the project. And then finally, I try to compose myself. That's my routine.

With Iconica, I can do all that very quickly and easily with woodwinds and brass, but when it comes to strings I run into trouble. The violin runs and shorts are really good and easy, but when it comes to legato, I have to stop writing and start tweaking because it sounds like a synth and I need to manually redraw mod lines because my controller is not rotary. It's really frustrating, it breaks focus and diverts attention - and also because I have Embertone's Joshua Bell violin and it's pure magic in terms of how easy it is to use for what I need and how convincing it is. I compared it to Abbado/Vengerov recording of Tchaikovsky violin concerto and it's so close out of the box, I couldn't believe my ears.

Finally, regarding the sound. I listened to the 12 strings examples in the other thread and many, many, many (!!!) walkthroughs. To me, Berlin Strings sounded the best in terms of expressiveness, richness of tone and suitability to my style (Romantic - Late Romantic). But then I went back and listened to different recordings of the same classical piece and realized they all sound different in tone depending on the venue and recording techniques. So I guess I am less concerned about the tone (as long as it doesn't sound like a synth) and more concerned about articulations and playability. 

My Iconica trial runs out in a couple of weeks and I'll have to decide. Thank you for reading, if you made it this far, and grateful for any thoughts/recommendations!


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## mohsohsenshi (Dec 23, 2019)

According to your background, I found VSL Synchronized Special Edition Vol 1 and 1 plus may suit you best.
Vol1 is a essential symphonic orchestra which has all sections you'll use in classical music. Vol 1 plus is an extended library to Vol 1 and adds more articulations you are likely to use in your composition.
check here:





Volume 1 - Vienna Symphonic Library


The SYNCHRON-ized Special Edition Volume 1 (“Essential Orchestra”) features the most common orchestral instruments and articulations in a resource-saving, affordable package. It contains 28 instruments and ensembles.




www.vsl.co.at










Volume 1 Plus - Vienna Symphonic Library


This Volume features additional articulations for the string, brass and woodwind instruments included in the Special Edition Volume 1.




www.vsl.co.at





It may not be easy to achieve that "epic" sound in Hollywood blockbuster(some find it too soft and classical), but it is perfect for classical especially Mozart's style.
The synchron player is an user friendly engine and you can easily have a smooth workflow.
VSL has made a sound set for notation software like Sibelius and Finale, so you can write your piece directly into sheet music and have a decent playback quality. Listen to this example, he is an excellent classical composer using VSL and Sibelius:



The second demo uses VSL dimension string but you can achieve 80% of his result with Synchronized SE Vol 1 and plus since I made a short mock up of his composition in Sibelius and shocked. 


For other strings ensemble, here's some recommendations:
Berlin Strings from Orchestral Tools
If the price is not matter, it's a good choice for your style. Sounds great and classical, beautiful and impressing legato, so playable.
around 19min


Cinematic Studio Strings
Reasonable price but high quality, adorable legato and shorts, but there are some delay issues. Someone here posted a solution for it, it may help to fix. A little bit limited in choice of articulations.

Spitfire Audio Chamber Strings
Small ensemble which can add details to your arrangement or used as divisi. And it can sound big. Many useful articulations, nice and playable legato, different legato styles. Spitfire has a Xmas promotion and you can have it 40% off.








Spitfire Audio — Spitfire Chamber Strings


Spitfire Chamber Strings features London's finest string players, expertly designed to add intimacy and detail to all your film, TV and game scores.



www.spitfireaudio.com









ENDING Midnight TONIGHT! Claim Your Wish List Discounts Now! 40% Off Individual Products & Up to 65% Off with Collections!







vi-control.net





They're all great libraries and easy to use but still require at least one cc control to make them sound realistic and convincing, there is learning curve in every library. In my opinion , these are the most qualified in workflow in 2019.


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## jbuhler (Dec 24, 2019)

youngpokie said:


> To me, Berlin Strings sounded the best in terms of expressiveness, richness of tone and suitability to my style (Romantic - Late Romantic).



Berlin Strings sound great, and it is a very fine library but they also require a lot of RAM. Hopefully this will improve in the Sine player. But I found them entirely unusable on my 16GB laptop even with extensive freezing. They were useable at 32GB as long as I was just using BS and only one microphone—but that still doesn't make them very useful for symphonic work. I have not yet really tested them at 64GB, but that's likely the minimum you would need to use them effectively. I also find that BS are the fussiest of the strings I have used. If you don't like fiddling with the midi programming, you are likely to find BS frustrating. Though I like the sound of the BS best among all the orchestral string libraries I own, I don't use them much because of the memory issues and the fussy programming they require.

I wasn't sure what you meant by your controller, but I would also say that you'd likely benefit from a controller with sliders to control at least CC1 and CC11, or maybe an expression pedal, or a tablet that is running something like Touch OSC, if you are not already doing something like that.


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## youngpokie (Dec 24, 2019)

jbuhler said:


> I also find that BS are the fussiest of the strings I have used. If you don't like fiddling with the midi programming, you are likely to find BS frustrating.



Thank you for this, I find this is really key for me right now. Endless stopping to tweak and fuss with MIDI is such an inspiration killer, I'm frankly at a loss.

I went back (again) to listen to demos of all the usual suspects and they all sound fine, the differences in sound are no more pronounced than what I'd find in several different recordings of the same classical piece. It's really about the ability to quickly play/notate what's in your head and not get shocked by the synthy sound out of the box and stop to waste hours trying to make 3 bars of music sound passable.

_But your post_ (and several others of yours and others' posts) are also making me re-think my approach, and I'm really grateful for this. I think my stumbling block is that I'm conflating two distinct stages of the process, and so I should be looking for:

(1) a sketching tool that's playable and has articulations
(2) a production tool (and that's where all of the fussing and tweaking takes place)

In all honestly, I am at stage (1) right now and from what I understand, Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass are the two most playable libraries out there out of the box. I just wonder if they run sales promotions...


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## Henu (Dec 24, 2019)

youngpokie said:


> (1) a sketching tool that's playable and has articulations
> (2) a production tool (and that's where all of the fussing and tweaking takes place)



For this, I actually have two templates now and I _love_ it. One for (1) which has the basic symphony orchestra sounds, going PLAYABILITY first. Adventure Brass/Strings, Kontakt Factory Library stuff, etc. No articulations, everything pretty much has a staccato attack if played with high velocity.







The second is just taking pre-configured (non-mixed) instruments from a skeleton template where I do all the stuff needed to do for (2).

With this setup, I'm eliminating all the "well, what if I play this line with a cello instead" which takes me 10 minutes to choose the best cello, sit it into the pre-mix, then articulate everything and make all the CC riding and molding and spend 10 minutes more only to hear that "no, didnt' work".


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## youngpokie (Dec 24, 2019)

Henu said:


> For this, I actually have two templates now and I _love_ it.



That's great, I guess I'm on the right track then!  

(My curse is that I need the legatos)


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## Henu (Dec 24, 2019)

Nah, you don't need them for the pure arranging template!  
(Or, at least, I can't figure out why would you?)


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## youngpokie (Dec 24, 2019)

Henu said:


> Nah, you don't need them for the pure arranging template!
> (Or, at least, I can't figure out why would you?)



That's because what I'm trying to write is more polyphony, voce leading and contrapunct rather than pads and spiccatos..


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## Henu (Dec 24, 2019)

Are you only having patches which force you to play pads and spiccatos unless they have pre-made polyphonic restrictions?


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## jbuhler (Dec 24, 2019)

youngpokie said:


> That's great, I guess I'm on the right track then!
> 
> (My curse is that I need the legatos)


I use SCS ensemble strings and a combination of Albion One and Masse woodwinds and brass to sketch. In addition I have the violin 1 performance legato patch, the Albion One woodwinds legato patch and the SSB solo horn and trumpet. Kontakt factory harp and HZP timpani. I’ll add others as needed but try to keep it as small as possible. With the release of the SF Originals I’ll likely substitute the Epic winds from that for the Albion One and Masse winds and keep the Albion One wind legatos. But I haven’t yet started a piece since I got the originals. Brass remains an issue because I don’t like the Albion brass, especially the horns and trumpets, so I’ve been looking for an alternative to that, ideally one like the Originals Epic Brass that has an all in one ensemble patch.

ETA: my final orchestral template is primarily SSO, but with SCS as Strings supplemented with some patches from OT Arks and a few other things so that’s one reason the sketching template is the way that it is.


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## Rob (Dec 24, 2019)

why don't you use a notation app with Noteperformer? Seems like the natural way to practice orchestration


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 24, 2019)

mohsohsenshi said:


> Cinematic Studio Strings
> Reasonable price but high quality, adorable legato and shorts, but there are some delay issues.


The CSS delay is _optional_. (You can use the legato without the delay. )

Moreover, virtually any string library gives an option to play with legato turned off. That's why I've not bought any sketching tools, I just use the ones I have without legato.

Also, there's a free/donation-priced sketch library with quality recordings, all recorded as ensembles:








Palette - Primary Colors - Red Room Audio


A FREE taste of Palette! This small sampling of our larger Palette Orchestral Series features strings, woodwinds and brass ensembles recorded using our True Ensemble Recording technique, with one microphone position and an abbreviated set of articulations. Now updated to v1.2!



redroomaudio.com


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## youngpokie (Dec 24, 2019)

Henu said:


> Are you only having patches which force you to play pads and spiccatos unless they have pre-made polyphonic restrictions?



Hmmm, I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you, sorry about that. When you say your fist template is only with staccato how do you write lead melodies?


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## Land of Missing Parts (Dec 24, 2019)

youngpokie said:


> Hmmm, I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you, sorry about that. When you say your fist template is only with staccato how do you write lead melodies?


I believe he just means staccato attack, meaning the note hits quickly, not that the actual articulation is staccato length.

For songwriting purposes, it's helpful to have the notes and timings defined clearly. I often use piano when I'm transcribing or otherwise just trying to pin down the timings and notes of a song.


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## Henu (Dec 24, 2019)

Yep, just imagine that you're having an "extra attack" when you hit the key hard enough. Otherwise it acts as a sustained one. Of course it's not the same thing than an actual short note, but it gives me enough idea to see if it works or not.


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## mohsohsenshi (Dec 24, 2019)

youngpokie said:


> Thanks - I am went full circle and am now considering Cinematic Studio Strings and Spitfire Chamber Strings. Do you have both of these? What are your thoughts what's more playable?




I've tried both of them in the studio where I work for, I don't own them actually. 
I pick CSS for more playability, and it cost less. You can even get a lower price with edu reduction since you missed the BF sale.


As above mentioned, it's also good to start as a young composer, using notation software with Note performer.


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