# Quick Tip For Cubase Users After Software Upgrades!



## geoffreyvernon (Jan 27, 2016)

Hey there everybody! *wow that sounds like a cartoon.. maybe it's just me?* How many of you guys rebuild your templates after Cubase updates? I know I do! As much time as it takes, I've found rebuilding your template*s* from scratch eliminates most chances of a bug or kink being brought over from a previous version. I do this every time! 

Between 8 and 8.3 I got so much more processing power. Between 8.3 and 8.35 I started using less resources, no CPU spikes randomly and reactivating a disabled midi track didn't give me no connection errors like it did before sometimes, and between 8.35 and 8.5 I've got no issues I had before at all! Everything is working flawlessly on my system. Faster than before honestly! So if you're having issues after upgrading, try re-building your templates! If you use a template that is. Found that out the hard way.  

Hope this little tip helps you fellow Cubase users!


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## shomyca (Jan 30, 2016)

Man...that's great info. I was kind of aware of that but I have to say...that is soooo lame 

My template has 500 midi tracks, and a lot of instrument tracks. Just thinking of naming, and routing all of these, makes me mad and sad.

Rebuilding the template that often makes you an expert... what is your aproach? Do you save track presets? Or we have to make every track from scratch?


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## Daryl (Jan 30, 2016)

Mostly I don't rebuild templates. There is no reason to do this if you do the following:

Remove all the folders and files from the Cubase Data folder
Save them to a new folder elsewhere
Do the upgrade
Replace key files in the Data folder with your originals, such as KC, templates, Logical Editor etc.
Done
Simply by allowing Cubase to rebuild the data folder, you are pretty much guarenteed no problems, and then replacing the files (if necessary one by one) will save you hours of rebuilding and almost guarantee you won't get the usual update instability.

D


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## givemenoughrope (Jan 30, 2016)

Oof...are you rebuilding expression maps too?!

Maybe i'll just try Daryl's way. I'm downloading 8.5 as I type...


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## ChristopherDoucet (Jan 30, 2016)

I couldn't agree more! 

I have 2000 tracks with 6 slaves in surround and I've learned (the hard way) that even with the 3 weeks it takes to re-build it every time, it saves time in the end. 

I'm considering skipping the updates and going every other year to re-build my template from scratch. 

But I would never migrate a template from a previous version.


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## ChristopherDoucet (Jan 30, 2016)

Daryl said:


> Mostly I don't rebuild templates. There is no reason to do this if you do the following:
> 
> Remove all the folders and files from the Cubase Data folder
> Save them to a new folder elsewhere
> ...



Wow, that's very interesting! Thank you for the great info!


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## benatural (Jan 30, 2016)

Yikes. I'd almost rather not upgrade at all.


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## devonmyles (Jan 31, 2016)

Daryl said:


> Mostly I don't rebuild templates. There is no reason to do this if you do the following:
> 
> Remove all the folders and files from the Cubase Data folder
> Save them to a new folder elsewhere
> ...



Thank you for that!


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## Daryl (Jan 31, 2016)

No problem. Last year I suddenly found that my main orchestral template crashed on opening and none of my projects would open either. So I just junked the data folder and replaced the files that I need (most of them i don 't use, like chord track etc.) and immediately it was fine. Took a couple of minutes. That's all.

I think that there are a few things you can do to make things easier even when not updating:

Back up the data folder every week. Getting new crashes on old stuff. Just replace with previous version.
Start to make a note of what features you actually use, particularly when they take a long time to re-create. then you know which files to replace when you do upgrade.
For me, it's basically Templates, KC, Logical Editor, Workspaces and a few other little things that would take no time to re-create, if I had to.


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## shomyca (Jan 31, 2016)

Can anybody maybe confirm that these two aproaches are the same? 

I don't know about preformance gaines, but reactivating a disabled midi tracks without a connection errors (maybe routing errors too) that Geoffrey is talking about...that is something worth rebuilding the template for...atleast for me.


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## shomyca (Jan 31, 2016)

Today, I did all that Daryl said. Firstly, I uninstalled the 8.5 update, then removed the preffs files (moved to another place), installed the 8.5 update again, started cubase, and finnaly replaced a few preffs files that I am using (similar to Daryl's).

Then I opened my template, and when I enable the instrument that I know is always loading with no connection, after all of this mentioned it is still without connection.

Am i missing some steps maybe?


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## Daryl (Jan 31, 2016)

If there was always a problem there is no reason to think that it was caused by the prefs and even if it was, it may well be the pref you replaced was the one causing the problem. Do you have a back up of the prefs where everything was working OK?


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## Pablocrespo (Jan 31, 2016)

shomyca said:


> Today, I did all that Daryl said. Firstly, I uninstalled the 8.5 update, then removed the preffs files (moved to another place), installed the 8.5 update again, started cubase, and finnaly replaced a few preffs files that I am using (similar to Daryl's).
> 
> Then I opened my template, and when I enable the instrument that I know is always loading with no connection, after all of this mentioned it is still without connection.
> 
> Am i missing some steps maybe?



Did you try setting the right conections, disabling the track and then saving as a template in 8.5?


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## shomyca (Jan 31, 2016)

Daryl said:


> If there was always a problem there is no reason to think that it was caused by the prefs and even if it was, it may well be the pref you replaced was the one causing the problem. Do you have a back up of the prefs where everything was working OK?


Well, i am having this problem from the first time I found out about track disabling feature. It is a known issue, and until now, there was some suggestions but not a definitive solution... as far as I know.


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## shomyca (Jan 31, 2016)

Pablocrespo said:


> Did you try setting the right conections, disabling the track and then saving as a template in 8.5?



Yes, I did that, and I tried to load the template again, enable the instrument, and the instrument was loaded connected. BUT... this happens very often...you fix it, then save the template, and then some other instruments lose their connection or routing.

It seems very random. Maybe it's not...there are tons of people with the same problem, and I eventually gave up fixing it, and decided to wait for the right update, which wasn't released yet.

But, fair enough...I will try now to enable one by one instrument, fix the routings and save template again...who knows


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## geoffreyvernon (Jan 31, 2016)

Hey guys thanks for all the input! To answer some questions, I don't use expression maps. I have every articulation loaded as I am using VEPro. So it's strictly instrument tracks, and group tracks and such that have to be rebuilt! It's a lot to do but it definitely does make a difference!


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## shomyca (Jan 31, 2016)

Thank you very much Geoffrey 

Daryl, do you use instrument tracks and track enable/disable feature?

thx guys


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## amitnj29 (Feb 1, 2016)

Where is cubase data folder. Did you mean to remove everything from this folder:
AppData\Roaming\Steinberg\Cubase 8_64\Presets
Thanks


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## Daryl (Feb 1, 2016)

amitnj29 said:


> Where is cubase data folder. Did you mean to remove everything from this folder:
> AppData\Roaming\Steinberg\Cubase 8_64\Presets
> Thanks


Not in the studio at the moment, but AFAIK it's in the Start menu under Steinberg Cubase.


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## amitnj29 (Feb 1, 2016)

oh yes. Its in the start menu. Thanks!
and its the same path


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## Pablocrespo (Feb 1, 2016)

shomyca said:


> Yes, I did that, and I tried to load the template again, enable the instrument, and the instrument was loaded connected. BUT... this happens very often...you fix it, then save the template, and then some other instruments lose their connection or routing.
> 
> It seems very random. Maybe it's not...there are tons of people with the same problem, and I eventually gave up fixing it, and decided to wait for the right update, which wasn't released yet.
> 
> But, fair enough...I will try now to enable one by one instrument, fix the routings and save template again...who knows



I know, it is definitly broken. People with this problems should go to the cubase forum and let them know, there is a thread: "an open plead to steinberg, again" about fixing this small bugs that prevent using the new features. Kind of, don't give us any more new features until we can use the old ones reliably.


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## geoffreyvernon (Feb 1, 2016)

I'm glad this little thread that I started is helping you guys get things situated! This is why V.I. is a great place to be. Everybody here is helpful and doesn't ever look down on anybody for asking questions!


I wish I could help you out with your issue shomyca, but alas I haven't had that issue since rebuilding! Maybe it has to do with certain types of midi controllers? If it helps, my midi controller is connected via USB.


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## shomyca (Feb 1, 2016)

geoffreyvernon said:


> I'm glad this little thread that I started is helping you guys get things situated! This is why V.I. is a great place to be. Everybody here is helpful and doesn't ever look down on anybody for asking questions!
> 
> 
> I wish I could help you out with your issue shomyca, but alas I haven't had that issue with any version of Cubase that I'm on! Maybe it has to do with certain types of midi controllers? If it helps, my midi controller is connected via USB.



Thank you for your replies Geoffrey.

Maybe I missed something, or some misunderstanding happened, but you said "Between 8.3 and 8.35 I started using less resources, no CPU spikes randomly and reactivating a disabled midi track didn't give me no connection errors like it did before sometimes...".

I understood that you have had this problem with losing connections of the midi tracks after re-enabling them, and that you solved that with rebuilding the template from scratch.

The thing is, I can't remember reading of anyone who is using actively this feature without the same problem. But then again, people seldom write about things that work 

So, I am just trying to find out whether it's a user related thing, or just a cubase bug. (Probably both...cubase bug which can be solved with the right steps )


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## geoffreyvernon (Feb 1, 2016)

shomyca said:


> Thank you for your replies Geoffrey.
> 
> Maybe I missed something, or some misunderstanding happened, but you said "Between 8.3 and 8.35 I started using less resources, no CPU spikes randomly and reactivating a disabled midi track didn't give me no connection errors like it did before sometimes...".
> 
> ...




Sorry about that! I meant to type I haven't had that issue since rebuilding my template. My apologies!  I had that issue before, and could never figure it out and since I rebuilt my template, I haven't had it happen since. Which is strange!

But yes, I used to have that issue but since rebuilding my template from scratch, without importing anything from any other place I haven't had that issue. But like I said I'm using USB 3 for my midi controllers, so I wonder if that has anything to do with it? Maybe it's a random Cubase bug. That could very well be it too!!


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## shomyca (Feb 1, 2016)

geoffreyvernon said:


> Sorry about that! I meant to type I haven't had that issue since rebuilding my template. My apologies!  I had that issue before, and could never figure it out and since I rebuilt my template, I haven't had it happen since. Which is strange!
> 
> But yes, I used to have that issue but since rebuilding my template from scratch, without importing anything from any other place I haven't had that issue. But like I said I'm using USB 3 for my midi controllers, so I wonder if that has anything to do with it? Maybe it's a random Cubase bug. That could very well be it too!!



Well that's some great info, thank you I will try that for sure.

I am quite sure it's not the problem with the controller because, beside losing the connection there is a mixed routing problem as well...the ones like, after enabling the flute track it is routed to violas  And that happens far too often with far too many tracks and instruments.

But your info sure gives some hope here


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## shomyca (Feb 1, 2016)

And yeah, it's not just after enabling. Also, it happens when loading the already done project as well, with enabled and routed tracks...

Hm, now when I think of it... Simple opening project...it's too basic thing to be some deep cubase bug. It got to be a problem with old template.


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## geoffreyvernon (Feb 1, 2016)

shomyca said:


> Well that's some great info, thank you I will try that for sure.
> 
> I am quite sure it's not the problem with the controller because, beside the losing the connection there is a mixed routing problem as well...the ones like, after enabling the flute track it is routed to violas  And that happens far too often with far too much tracks and instruments.
> 
> But your info sure gives some hope here




Oh wow! Yeah, I just had issues with the tracks not enabling properly. I've never seen the improper routing issue before! Might try to start from scratch. Don't delete your old template just in case, but do a brand new one without importing anything and see what happens!


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## shomyca (Feb 1, 2016)

geoffreyvernon said:


> Oh wow! Yeah, I just had issues with the tracks not enabling properly. I've never seen the improper routing issue before! Might try to start from scratch. Don't delete your old template just in case, but do a brand new one without importing anything and see what happens!


 
Will do, thx


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## geoffreyvernon (Feb 1, 2016)

shomyca said:


> Will do, thx


Let us know how it goes and what happens! Curious to see if this indeed does fix it for you!


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## shomyca (Feb 2, 2016)

geoffreyvernon said:


> Let us know how it goes and what happens! Curious to see if this indeed does fix it for you!



I will, for sure  As soon as I find some time...


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## geoffreyvernon (Feb 2, 2016)

shomyca said:


> I will, for sure  As soon as I find some time...



Sounds great my friend!


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## shomyca (Feb 19, 2016)

Hello again 

I bought a new master PC, old one is now a slave. Bought the VEP5 too... Cubase updated to new 8.5.1... no choice but to make a new template...from scratch And I did exactly that.

Unfortunatly, my problem is still here  But I have some new findings. Examples:

1 - a: Instrument track with Kontakt instance (hosted in Cubase) with 10 instruments in it. 9 more midi tracks added to that instrument track for controling all 10 instruments in the kontakt instance. 
WHen I select all the tracks, instrument track and midi tracks, right click, disable track...and after I enable the same way (all selected), sometimes routings are alright, sometimes not. 

b: And when I select just the instrument track, and disable it, those 9 midi tracks lose connection...after I enable the instrument track, midi tracks stay with no connection. I guess it should be like that.

2 - a: Instrument track with VEP5 instance, hosting LASS. 25 midi tracks added to instrument track for controlling LASS instruments. WHen I select all, instrument and all the midi tracks, and disable all...and then enable it...all is well, they are connected with the right vep instance, and right channels, but the midi ports on some of the tracks are reseted to 1 :/ and I m using 11 midi ports for whole LASS. So...bad.

b: When I select just the instrument track and disable it, midi tracks lose connections...BUT, when I enable the instrument track, all the midi tracks get the connection back, everything fine  (I tried the same, but before enabling the instrument track, I enabled some other instrument track with some kontakt instance...and all the midi tracks got the connection for that instrument track lol xD ...it seems that, enabling the instrument track is acting like a magnet for all midi tracks with lost connections).

So sorry for my language... I hope all of this make any sense.


P.S. - Geoffrey, do you use instrument tracks along with the midi tracks? My instrument tracks never lose routings, only midi tracks...


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## geoffreyvernon (Feb 21, 2016)

shomyca said:


> Hello again
> 
> I bought a new master PC, old one is now a slave. Bought the VEP5 too... Cubase updated to new 8.5.1... no choice but to make a new template...from scratch And I did exactly that.
> 
> ...




If it helps, I don't use midi tracks. All of my tracks are instrument tracks!! Let me get to my studio in the morning, and try to replicate this with a midi track and I'll post my findings with you!!


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## shomyca (Feb 22, 2016)

geoffreyvernon said:


> If it helps, I don't use midi tracks. All of my tracks are instrument tracks!! Let me get to my studio in the morning, and try to replicate this with a midi track and I'll post my findings with you!!



Well that helps a lot  I can now stop trying to make that work as it should...but it can't cause it's most probably a cubase bug. I don't have the problem with the instrument tracks either.

BUT, now I am very happy composer because I discovered the disconnect feature in vepro (which is basically doing the same as disable in cubase) and now I can stop disabling tracks until it matures some more


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## Rob Elliott (Feb 22, 2016)

I can second Daryl's advice - important step to take with ANY updates for Steinberg. Data folder is in the start menu under Steinberg. As mentioned - don't forget to back that up once a week.


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## geoffreyvernon (Feb 22, 2016)

shomyca said:


> Well that helps a lot  I can now stop trying to make that work as it should...but it can't cause it's most probably a cubase bug. I don't have the problem with the instrument tracks either.
> 
> BUT, now I am very happy composer because I discovered the disconnect feature in vepro (which is basically doing the same as disable in cubase) and now I can stop disabling tracks until it matures some more




Just replicated this with midi tracks, so it must definitely be a bug in Cubase that I missed because I use Instrument tracks. I used to have this issue with Instrument tracks but it's gone now on my end and completely missed it because I use instrument and not midi tracks. hopefully Steinberg will get this fixed! 

It's good that VEPro has that feature.


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## shomyca (Feb 22, 2016)

geoffreyvernon said:


> Just replicated this with midi tracks, so it must definitely be a bug in Cubase that I missed because I use Instrument tracks. I used to have this issue with Instrument tracks but it's gone now on my end and completely missed it because I use instrument and not midi tracks. hopefully Steinberg will get this fixed!
> 
> It's good that VEPro has that feature.



Track disable is a very powerful feature, and quite fresh one, so it's understandable that it needs some more work 

Thank you SO much for the effort Geoffrey


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## geoffreyvernon (Feb 22, 2016)

shomyca said:


> Track disable is a very powerful feature, and quite fresh one, so it's understandable that it needs some more work
> 
> Thank you SO much for the effort Geoffrey




Feel free to ping me anytime you need help my friend!


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## shomyca (Feb 22, 2016)

geoffreyvernon said:


> Feel free to ping me anytime you need help my friend!


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## jononotbono (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks for this thread. I am about to change to Mac and slave my first PC so I guess I'll be rebuilding my template! I had best buy a massive jar of coffee!


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## geoffreyvernon (Feb 22, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> Thanks for this thread. I am about to change to Mac and slave my first PC so I guess I'll be rebuilding my template! I had best buy a massive jar of coffee!



Super glad I could be of help to you! Thankfully I learned the hard way that rebuilding is best after major upgrades, and sometimes even in between updates!


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## jononotbono (Feb 22, 2016)

geoffreyvernon said:


> Super glad I could be of help to you! Thankfully I learned the hard way that rebuilding is best after major upgrades, and sometimes even in between updates!



This may explain why since upgrading to 8.5.10, Cubase has been occasionally hanging on start up and wasn't doing it before. Who knows.

Has rebuilding your template each time helped you to chisel your template into exactly as you want it? I'm guessing it would...


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## geoffreyvernon (Feb 23, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> This may explain why since upgrading to 8.5.10, Cubase has been occasionally hanging on start up and wasn't doing it before. Who knows.
> 
> Has rebuilding your template each time helped you to chisel your template into exactly as you want it? I'm guessing it would...



Absolutely! Every time I've changed my template I've been able to add and take away and shape my template into what it is today. I one had 2,000 tracks then went down to 800 then down to 400 and then back up to what it is now at 700 tracks. Which is a lot but after shaping and crafting and rebuilding I've finally got to the point where I have a template that has got me through 4-5 films so far now, which is more than previous templates of about 2 films before a change in the template while rebuilding!


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## jononotbono (Feb 23, 2016)

geoffreyvernon said:


> Absolutely! Every time I've changed my template I've been able to add and take away and shape my template into what it is today. I one had 2,000 tracks then went down to 800 then down to 400 and then back up to what it is now at 700 tracks. Which is a lot but after shaping and crafting and rebuilding I've finally got to the point where I have a template that has got me through 4-5 films so far now, which is more than previous templates of about 2 films before a change in the template while rebuilding!




This really excites me. I have been learning what I need, what I want and already learning what is surplus and what is vital. Today my Mac Pro arrived and I'm waiting impatiently for the Mail Man to deliver all the Ethernet Leads (and additional dongles) so I can connect and set up my computers on a private network and start fresh with a brand new SSD in the MP. I have a feeling this is going to take a bit of work getting my head round setting this up but now having 2 computers to work on my ever growing template is amazing. I can only imagine how fast you are at rebuilding Templates haha!


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## geoffreyvernon (Feb 23, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> This really excites me. I have been learning what I need, what I want and already learning what is surplus and what is vital. Today my Mac Pro arrived and I'm waiting impatiently for the Mail Man to deliver all the Ethernet Leads (and additional dongles) so I can connect and set up my computers on a private network and start fresh with a brand new SSD in the MP. I have a feeling this is going to take a bit of work getting my head round setting this up but now having 2 computers to work on my ever growing template is amazing. I can only imagine how fast you are at rebuilding Templates haha!



Crush it!! Looks like you're far on your way to a killing system!! If you ever need help with anything, I'm a pm away man!!!


Yeah. I build a template in about 3-4 hours now. Maybe 6. Haha! It's a good and bad thing.


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## jononotbono (Jul 23, 2016)

geoffreyvernon said:


> Hey guys thanks for all the input! To answer some questions, I don't use expression maps. I have every articulation loaded as I am using VEPro. So it's strictly instrument tracks, and group tracks and such that have to be rebuilt! It's a lot to do but it definitely does make a difference!



When you say "Strictly Instrument Tracks" are you saying that you have 1 Instrument track per Articulation loaded in VEPro? So no Midi tracks whatsoever? I am building a Cubase template and just changed to Instrument tracks with Midi tracks assigned to make use of the Disable track feature but when I Enable a disabled Instrument track, I am getting "Missing: Input 1" for the midi tracks and have to assign them which is putting a major downer on this otherwise brilliant feature.


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## shomyca (Jul 23, 2016)

jononotbono said:


> When you say "Strictly Instrument Tracks" are you saying that you have 1 Instrument track per Articulation loaded in VEPro? So no Midi tracks whatsoever? I am building a Cubase template and just changed to Instrument tracks with Midi tracks assigned to make use of the Disable track feature but when I Enable a disabled Instrument track, I am getting "Missing: Input 1" for the midi tracks and have to assign them which is putting a major downer on this otherwise brilliant feature.



Yes, a major disappointment. I have abandoned disable feature altogether because it's just not workable. But found another way which works perfectly and does the same thing for me.

Namely, I don't want my libraries to be loaded in the template but want to "enable" them when I decide which libraries I am going to use for the project. Disable feature is a perfect idea for that. But VEP has something similar, and you can use it also.

Just build your template, everything loaded, instrument tracks containing VEP instances (you can also use midi tracks exclusively), and midi tracks along them...do all your audio routing, everything to work just as you want it... then, you can just disconnect all your VEP instances and save your template. When you open the template and connect them again, everything will sit in it's place. Simple as that. No disabling tracks, no losing connections and routings.... instrument, midi and audio track routings stay all the same.

So, when I choose to use some library, I just connect it (you have to remember on which system is that library, though ...i have just two systems like you so it's not that hard), quick preserve and decouple, and i'm good to go  VEPro Rocks!


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## jononotbono (Jul 23, 2016)

Make template, disconnect instances and then save as template. Then...

Connect, preserve and play? Sounds promising. I'll give it a try!

I read a thread earlier (on the Steinberg forum) and someone who works for Steinberg says that problems with Disabling tracks have been fixed. I'm finding this difficult to believe. Now, Asio Guard 2 working with VEPro has a competitor for top of the list bug fixes for me.


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## Cecco (Dec 20, 2016)

Hello everyone, bumping up this thread from some months ago.
Do you think is still worth to remove (and back up) the preferences folder prior to upgrading Cubase from vers. 8.5 to Cubase 9? Or maybe the new installer will take care of rebuilding the Data folder in the correct way?

Thanks


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## shomynik (Dec 20, 2016)

Cecco said:


> Hello everyone, bumping up this thread from some months ago.
> Do you think is still worth to remove (and back up) the preferences folder prior to upgrading Cubase from vers. 8.5 to Cubase 9? Or maybe the new installer will take care of rebuilding the Data folder in the correct way?
> 
> Thanks



I didn't do re-build of the preference folder and everything's working fine. I've never noticed any problems made by not doing that, although don't have a 20 years old experience, only 5.


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## Cecco (Dec 20, 2016)

shomynik said:


> I didn't do re-build of the preference folder and everything's working fine. I've never noticed any problems made by not doing that, although don't have a 20 years old experience, only 5.



Thanks Shomynik!


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## shomynik (Dec 20, 2016)

You're very welcome Cecco!


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## ZeroZero (Dec 20, 2016)

I don't rebuild and have never had an issue. I do resave the templates though - this is easy to overlook. I prefer to rebuild my prefs here. 

Z


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