# Orchestral piece - featuring Chris Hein Ensemble Strings



## Ben E (Apr 18, 2018)

All the strings are the new Chris Hein Ensemble Strings. Woods are Berlin and Spitfire. Brass Spitfire.


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## Rob (Apr 18, 2018)

very nice... the Hein strings seem to work very well.
The panning of the cellos surprised me a bit, or maybe it's the first violins... I'm used to have those sections in the opposite position, but at the same distance from center. Here I hear cellos closer to the center compared to violins I. But I may be wrong, I was curious to know if that was an intentional choice


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## Ben E (Apr 18, 2018)

Rob said:


> very nice... the Hein strings seem to work very well.
> The panning of the cellos surprised me a bit, or maybe it's the first violins... I'm used to have those sections in the opposite position, but at the same distance from center. Here I hear cellos closer to the center compared to violins I. But I may be wrong, I was curious to know if that was an intentional choice


To be honest, I didn't put a lot of time in the panning. I started to fiddle with it but thought I didn't know what I was doing, really, so I stopped. I panned the 1st violins -16 to the left in the instrument. Everything else is out of the box - which I think is centered. Thing is, the instrument panning is per articulation so when I key switch from "vibrato long" to "trills" (or whatever) the panning goes back to the center because I forgot to change it for each articulation. I should get with it on the panning. I'm used to Spitfire where everything is situated.


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## Rob (Apr 18, 2018)

Ben E said:


> To be honest, I didn't put a lot of time in the panning. I started to fiddle with it but thought I didn't know what I was doing, really, so I stopped. I panned the 1st violins -16 to the left in the instrument. Everything else is out of the box - which I think is centered. Thing is, the instrument panning is per articulation so when I key switch from "vibrato long" to "trills" (or whatever) the panning goes back to the center because I forgot to change it for each articulation. I should get with it on the panning. I'm used to Spitfire where everything is situated.


maybe the "center" panning is already with sections in the correct position... if this is true you should maybe re-center the first violins


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## tehreal (Apr 18, 2018)

This guy composes the same way he dresses.

Smoooth.


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## muziksculp (Apr 18, 2018)

Hi Ben E

Beautiful Track !

_CH-Ens Strings_ sound very warm, expressive, and very natural, no phasing, and very good legatos.

Very well done.

Q. How do you like the CH-Ens.Strings Short articulations ?

Thanks for sharing,
Muziksculp


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## star.keys (Apr 18, 2018)

Ben E said:


> All the strings are the new Chris Hein Ensemble Strings. Woods are Berlin and Spitfire. Brass Spitfire.





Ben E said:


> All the strings are the new Chris Hein Ensemble Strings. Woods are Berlin and Spitfire. Brass Spitfire.




Incredibly beautiful piece... I have heard something that organic and beautiful after long


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## Garry (Apr 18, 2018)

Ben E said:


> All the strings are the new Chris Hein Ensemble Strings. Woods are Berlin and Spitfire. Brass Spitfire.



Absolutely amazing! Another masterpiece!

How do you find CH strings vs SCS - I'm so torn between the 2: SCS seems to be something of a standard for good reason, but the flexibility and playability of CH strings is hard to overlook. Can you help me make a decision?!


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## Ben E (Apr 18, 2018)

Garry said:


> Absolutely amazing! Another masterpiece!
> 
> How do you find CH strings vs SCS - I'm so torn between the 2: SCS seems to be something of a standard for good reason, but the flexibility and playability of CH strings is hard to overlook. Can you help me make a decision?!



Thank you for your kind words!

I wish that I could help you make a decision, but my workflow is too idiosyncratic to apply to anyone else. I will say that the main difference between the two libraries (other than the sound) is the versatility factor. With the Hein library it’s possible to sculpt the individual notes to an astonishing degree. And while you can make SCS jump through hoops and do delicate back-bends you can do the same with Hein plus more. At the end of the day which library I choose comes down to which _sound_ I want and how versatile I need the instruments to be. Sound-wise they're very different. I prefer the sound of SCS and the versatility of Hein.

Bear in mind that I don’t play the notes into Logic. I draw them. Same with automation. So as far as playability I’ve no idea which library is better.

So, the pieces that I post are the closest thing I can offer as a comparison between libraries. When you hear a piece I’ve posted just know that I tried my best with the libraries and this is what I was able to achieve — and that the time/work put into an SCS piece is roughly the same as the time/effort put into a Hein piece. This piece (Benton) is the “best that I can presently do” with Chris Hein Ensemble Strings (a beta of which I received several weeks ago for the purpose of making demos, and I'm still learning.) For the “best that I can presently do” with SCS see “Lassie’s Not-Dangerous Day.”


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## Ben E (Apr 18, 2018)

muziksculp said:


> Q. How do you like the CH-Ens.Strings Short articulations ?
> Muziksculp



Thanks!
I like the short articulations a lot. Six shorts AND six spiccatos. With multiple velocity layer recordings on each. You can get a lot of different sounds this way.


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## NoamL (Apr 18, 2018)

Your control of phrase & form is really impressive. 

At 1:20 the crescendo in the strings is a bit unrealistically fast IMO, it gives the impression of a volume jump. The other similar crescendos elsewhere in that section of the piece are much better. The last chord of the piece, I'm not sure what's going on there (sul pont on the high strings?), the brass voicing is nice but I was kind of expecting to hear a similar warm, low close-voicing in the strings.

I feel silly giving those two points of critique because the rest of the writing & programming is so clearly masterful. So take my advice with the grain of salt it deserves, haha


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## NoamL (Apr 18, 2018)

Oh, one question - what percussion are you using at 1:50 and 2:22? Is that a keyed glockenspiel?

I have used (standard) glockenspiel trying to get this sound - a very subtle sound that just colors the unison woodwind or string line with a bit of shimmer - and I never got the results to sound that good or balanced in live contexts (in fact I tried that sound on M's last concert, remember? And we ended up changing it in rehearsal). I'm wondering if you have any kind of special trick here, felt mallets etc., or is it just marked _pp?_


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## muziksculp (Apr 18, 2018)

Ben E said:


> Thanks!
> I like the short articulations a lot. Six shorts AND six spiccatos. With multiple velocity layer recordings on each. You can get a lot of different sounds this way.



Thanks for the feedback.


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## Garry (Apr 18, 2018)

Ben E said:


> Thank you for your kind words!
> 
> I wish that I could help you make a decision, but my workflow is too idiosyncratic to apply to anyone else. I will say that the main difference between the two libraries (other than the sound) is the versatility factor. With the Hein library it’s possible to sculpt the individual notes to an astonishing degree. And while you can make SCS jump through hoops and do delicate back-bends you can do the same with Hein plus more. At the end of the day which library I choose comes down to which _sound_ I want and how versatile I need the instruments to be. Sound-wise they're very different. I prefer the sound of SCS and the versatility of Hein.
> 
> ...




Wow, ok that was beautiful too - so you're no help at all!! 

Seriously though, these both sound so good, it makes me think I can't really use them for comparing to my own level of composition, since I'm just no where near this level. So, thinking more as a beginner, do you feel my impression is correct that SCS is easier to get something convincing quickly, because it's baked in: I have Albion One, and feel I don't need to do much with EQ, panning, reverb: it all sounds so good 'out of the box'. Whereas I have Sample Modelling, and I LOVE playing them, but find it more difficult to write with them, because I think I lack the knowledge as to how to get the best out of them, and wonder if CHES might be a similar experience to this. From this perspective, of ease of getting 'out of the box' sketches quickly, would that make you go with SCS, or would CHES be just as good there too?

A second question if I may: I was amazed to hear that you draw in the notes! Do you do this laboriously directly into the piano roll with the pencil tool, or do you use Logic's step input? I recently came across step input, and think it's game-changing, and am enjoying getting used to it for composition. I haven't seen any tutorials on composing via MIDI-drawing, and would love to hear any tips you have. 

Many thanks.


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## Ben E (Apr 18, 2018)

@NoamL 
Thank you for the observations. And please, keep them coming. You've given this kind of feedback in the past and it sticks -- in a good way. 



NoamL said:


> At 1:20 the crescendo in the strings is a bit unrealistically fast....



Yes. I went back and forth with that. Ear-blindness. I stopped being able to hear if it sounded right.



NoamL said:


> Oh, one question - what percussion are you using at 1:50 and 2:22? Is that a keyed glockenspiel?



That is a standard glockenspiel, regular mallets. I roll off the high end. There's sometimes a critical difference between a very soft hit mixed up to sit vs a harder hit mixed down to sit. These were very low velocity strikes mixed up. I think I got it right this time, luckily. Triangles, though, are still a pain for me. @AlexanderSchiborr does triangles good!


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## Ben E (Apr 18, 2018)

Garry said:


> Wow, ok that was beautiful too - so you're no help at all!!
> Seriously though, these both sound so good, it makes me think I can't really use them for comparing to my own level of composition, since I'm just no where near this level. So, thinking more as a beginner, do you feel my impression is correct that SCS is easier to get something convincing quickly, because it's baked in...:



Thank you so much for the kind words. My impression is that it's easier to create something beautiful on accident with SCS out of the box. I think with Hein you have to have an idea and then press the instrument in service to it. (It's very compliant, more so than SCS.) With SCS your cat can walk across the keyboard and voilà! So, in the words of Humpty Dumpty, "The question is, which is to be master -- that's all." 



Garry said:


> A second question if I may: I was amazed to hear that you draw in the notes! Do you do this laboriously directly into the piano roll with the pencil tool, or do you use Logic's step input?...



I don't use the pencil tool. I use option-drag to create the next note and then drag it to the correct pitch on the piano roll. I use step input occasionally -- especially when I need triplets, but only to create the first note of a triplet phrase to get its length right. The first note for any instrument is created by typing a random note using the red "midi in" button in Logic's piano roll. The rest are cloned from the first.


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## Garry (Apr 19, 2018)

Ben E said:


> Thank you so much for the kind words. My impression is that it's easier to create something beautiful on accident with SCS out of the box. I think with Hein you have to have an idea and then press the instrument in service to it. (It's very compliant, more so than SCS.) With SCS your cat can walk across the keyboard and voilà! So, in the words of Humpty Dumpty, "The question is, which is to be master -- that's all."
> 
> 
> 
> I don't use the pencil tool. I use option-drag to create the next note and then drag it to the correct pitch on the piano roll. I use step input occasionally -- especially when I need triplets, but only to create the first note of a triplet phrase to get its length right. The first note for any instrument is created by typing a random note using the red "midi in" button in Logic's piano roll. The rest are cloned from the first.



Thanks - very helpful.


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