# US music libraries vs UK libraries?



## dannymc (Aug 23, 2017)

i mean in terms of pecking order would the US libraries be considered the better libraries to be signed with vs the UK libraries or would it be vice versa?

i know some of the earliest production libraries such as de wolfe would of came out of the UK and have a great rep and i'd imagine a library like that would be extremely hard to get into but would it still be ranked above the US libraries doing a similar thing? also i' d imagine alot comes down to the client base/size. the US libraries potentially having a much larger client base due to the vast amount of cable, networks and other media.

also are there fixed prices with the UK libraries per type of placement vs the US libraries were the placement amounts can go from very low to very high?

would love to hear peoples opinions on this. i am mostly referring to exclusive libraries.


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## col (Aug 23, 2017)

A content maker I know in Australia and some of his colleague's are certainly looking away from US sources
these days in reaction to current leadership trends/policies in US. Token gesture I suppose. Might be a trend ?
But which country you will make more cash with ? Sorry I can't help you there.


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 23, 2017)

To be on the safe side, place music with U.S. and U.K. music libraries.


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## gsilbers (Aug 23, 2017)

Im not sure if i would see them in terms of country but would try to fetch more research on indivual libraries and amount of placements they have. 

US libraries might be close to where the action is. LA is still king of content but London has a lot of media outlets.


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## SillyMidOn (Aug 24, 2017)

dannymc said:


> i know some of the earliest production libraries such as de wolfe would of came out


you probably meant "would have come out" ?...

Regardless, you are probably asking the wrong question. What you are actually asking is

"Which library is going to make me the most money?"

The answer to that is not necessarily based so much on where a library is based, if you are looking at UK v US or even v Germany or France, but how good they are at placing music in their own territory, and then whether they either have very good international representation and/or if they have their own representation in other territories. Some libraries have a mix where they have some of their own staff in some territories, but are "repped" by other libraries in yet other territories.

There are some US libraries who bizarrely have no international representation, but still do well for themselves, but they are missing out on additional money, and there is sometimes an odd attitude wth the odd US library regarding finding international reps - they don't like the idea of a 3rd party taking part of the cut.

Sync/mechanical licence fees are often non-existent in the US, in the UK they are good, but thanks to Audionetwork and other non PRS rate card libraries, they have become increasingly under threat.

I have never written for DeWolfe, but a composer whom I know who writes for them told me that they screw you on the sync fees they take abroad.

Hope that helps.


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## dannymc (Aug 24, 2017)

> in the UK they are good, but thanks to Audionetwork and other non PRS rate card libraries, they have become increasingly under threat.



sorry could you expand on this point please? what is it that audionetwork are doing different to other UK libraries? 


> I have never written for DeWolfe, but a composer whom I know who writes for them told me that they screw you on the sync fees they take abroad.
> 
> Hope that helps.



yes your post was super helpful thanks man. 

Danny


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## SillyMidOn (Aug 24, 2017)

dannymc said:


> sorry could you expand on this point please? what is it that audionetwork are doing different to other UK libraries?


So in the UK there is a PRS/MCPS rate card:

https://www.prsformusic.com/-/media/files/prs-for-music/licensing/production-music/production-music-rate-card.ashx

and most libraries used to be PRS/MCPS libraries, in that they were bound to use their rates, and could not undercut them. Now how historically it then came to pass that libraries were created that were allowed to undercut them I actually don't know (but hopefully someone here will), but basically the so called royalty free libraries appeared and they had massively lower rates, meaning less money for the composer. 

In the US some libraries do blanket deals with the networks, so the network pays them a lump some as a mechanical license fee for the year that allows them to use the entire catalogue, but then the libraries don't pass that on to the composers, which is not very nice. Some do pass this on.

The result has been a downward pressure on sync/mechanical fees - my understanding from older generations is that they used to be much better in the US many, many years ago, but are now very rare, and I have now here in the Uk seen contracts where PRS libraries (so they are bound by the rate card), are only offering the composers 25% of mechanical license fees (as opposed to 50%), with the slight "sweetener" of a buyout fee, so that they can compete with auidonetwork and the likes (that's the reason I was given). And these are big name libraries, not some small independents.

Now the irony with all of this of course is that with the advent of netflix, amazon prime et al, suddenly the license fee has become more important, as currently the collection of any performance royalties in the online world is very nebulous, so that is an interesting development to watch. My understanding is that so far netflix don't share viewing figure with the PRO's, but I am happy to be corrected on that.

Does anyone know if there is a GEMA rate card in Germany, or one in France for SACEM?

This may also be useful, a list of libraries that are bound by this rate card:

https://www.prsformusic.com/licences/using-production-music

Hope that helps.


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## SillyMidOn (Aug 25, 2017)

... oh and by the way there is not much money in US cable network placements, the same goes for SKY in the UK. The difference between a placement in a prime time slot tv show on a big national broadcaster, and on a crapy TV soap on a cable network is huge... never mind a placement on The Weather Channel...


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## dannymc (Aug 25, 2017)

SillyMidOn said:


> ... oh and by the way there is not much money in US cable network placements, the same goes for SKY in the UK. The difference between a placement in a prime time slot tv show on a big national broadcaster, and on a crapy TV soap on a cable network is huge... never mind a placement on The Weather Channel...



i think there is a general acceptance that cable pays the pennies & dollars where-as the networks can pay hundreds of dollars. but i think cable comes down to quantity of placement rather the individual placement rate. all those pennies and dollars can add up to something comparable to a network tv placement if it happens to be a cue being re-run hundreds of times on a reality tv show or so i've heard. 

Danny


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## Desire Inspires (Aug 25, 2017)

dannymc said:


> i think there is a general acceptance that cable pays the pennies & dollars where-as the networks can pay hundreds of dollars. but i think cable comes down to quantity of placement rather the individual placement rate. all those pennies and dollars can add up to something comparable to a network tv placement if it happens to be a cue being re-run hundreds of times on a reality tv show or so i've heard.
> 
> Danny



Not really.

Sure, there are far more cable networks and more chances to earn pennies and dollars. But the payouts are all over the place. I look at my PRO statement every quarter and I am always confused as to how these royalties are calculated.

I'd prefer a handful of placements on network TV shows instead of dozens from cable.


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## ghostnote (Aug 25, 2017)

Nowaydays even the higher class libraries offer lower priced licenses for Youtube videos and presentations. So it can be very likely that you submit a piece to your house library, and they will then offer it to editors in a release which will be very low in price. Clear that with your library in advance.


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