# The Orchestra Contest - Compose To Win



## Best Service Tomasz

*The Orchestra Contest - Compose To Win*

Compose a new original music for a cut-down version of The Orchestra Complete 2 Trailer and win one of three great prizes! 

With over 450 entries from all over the world, our Elysion Contest last year was a huge success and that's why we decided to launch a new contest:






THE ORCHESTRA CONTEST - COMPOSE TO WIN

This years you get the opportunity to compose a new original music for our The Orchestra Complete 2 Trailer.
Sonuscore’s team of composers will review the submissions and select up to 10 finalists whose videos will be subject to the public voting.
Among all participants of the public voting, we raffle off 5x Best Service The Orchestra Complete 2 by Sonuscore.

All details about the contest can be found on our THE ORCHESTRA CONTEST SITE.


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## tebling

If, like me, you saw that the video to be scored is the trailer for Horns Of Hell, and wondered if using that library (or The Orchestra 2) was required, it's not.

From the full rules: "Any MIDI instruments, Electronics or live recordings can be used."

Kazoos of Hell anyone?


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## toddkreuz

tebling said:


> If, like me, you saw that the video to be scored is the trailer for Horns Of Hell, and wondered if using that library (or The Orchestra 2) was required, it's not.
> 
> From the full rules: "Any MIDI instruments, Electronics or live recordings can be used."
> 
> Kazoos of Hell anyone?


yeah, thats exactly what i was wondering. Thanks!


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## D4Disgruntled

Here is another contest I will be entering. YAY!


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## Leslie Fuller

tebling said:


> If, like me, you saw that the video to be scored is the trailer for Horns Of Hell, and wondered if using that library (or The Orchestra 2) was required, it's not.
> 
> From the full rules: "Any MIDI instruments, Electronics or live recordings can be used."
> 
> Kazoos of Hell anyone?


And Soundiron just happen to have a Kazoo library for only $9!


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## D4Disgruntled

toddkreuz said:


> yeah, thats exactly what i was wondering. Thanks!


The good thing is we are not composing music to sell the product. If we were, I think we WOULD have to use the product in the composition or else it would be false advertising. People would buy the product expecting to hear the instruments used.

So this is about storytelling with the music, not accurate product promotion. I am sure they already have someone in house (or contracted) to create the actual advertisement music for the product.


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## D4Disgruntled

Leslie Fuller said:


> And Soundiron just happen to have a Kazoo library for only $9!


But is it a Kazoo from Hell? Lol.

The sound alone creates a headache from hell for me, so I guess it is so from Hell.


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## cygnusdei

I'm almost tempted to participate, but with ironic/humorous music 😄


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## [email protected]

Just sent my entry yesterday. Hope I get the shortlist. First competition I've entered. Half hoping only 10 people apply so I can get the shortlist. LOL. Has anybody else here submitted? Would love to see someone else's interpretation of the same. Cheers .


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## D4Disgruntled

[email protected] said:


> Just sent my entry yesterday. Hope I get the shortlist. First competition I've entered. Half hoping only 10 people apply so I can get the shortlist. LOL. Has anybody else here submitted? Would love to see someone else's interpretation of the same. Cheers .


I submitted mine this evening. One thing everyone needs to hold off on is posting it to YouTube and other social media sites as it will lower their voting chances.

I want to post mine so bad but I want to wait until Best Services AND Sonuscore post the entries on their YouTube channels. Which, kind of makes the voting process a little messed up and unbalanced. One entry is in 2 locations. An entry may only get 1 vote from one YT channel and not from the other simply due to the voter not knowing it is on 2 channels.

Or

An entry could get 2 votes by the same person due to the voter KNOWING the entry is on 2 YT channels. So make sure to tell people you want to have vote for you to got to 2 different voting locations to cote for the same candidate - wait, this is sounding like the 2020 U.S. elections. LOL.

But seriously, make sure your voters go and vote 2x - once on Best Services YT channel and once on Sonuscores YT channel.


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## [email protected]

D4Disgruntled said:


> I submitted mine this evening. One thing everyone needs to hold off on is posting it to YouTube and other social media sites as it will lower their voting chances.
> 
> I want to post mine so bad but I want to wait until Best Services AND Sonuscore post the entries on their YouTube channels. Which, kind of makes the voting process a little messed up and unbalanced. One entry is in 2 locations. An entry may only get 1 vote from one YT channel and not from the other simply due to the voter not knowing it is on 2 channels.
> 
> Or
> 
> An entry could get 2 votes by the same person due to the voter KNOWING the entry is on 2 YT channels. So make sure to tell people you want to have vote for you to got to 2 different voting locations to cote for the same candidate - wait, this is sounding like the 2020 U.S. elections. LOL.
> 
> But seriously, make sure your voters go and vote 2x - once on Best Services YT channel and once on Sonuscores YT channel.


Hey didn't know that, thanks for the info. But how does the voting work? Is it the number of likes on the YT video?


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## Leslie Fuller

tebling said:


> If, like me, you saw that the video to be scored is the trailer for Horns Of Hell, and wondered if using that library (or The Orchestra 2) was required, it's not.
> 
> From the full rules: "Any MIDI instruments, Electronics or live recordings can be used."
> 
> Kazoos of Hell anyone?


Soundiron 30% sale just started, so Kazoo (from hell?) library now only $6!


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## D4Disgruntled

[email protected] said:


> Hey didn't know that, thanks for the info. But how does the voting work? Is it the number of likes on the YT video?


Yes. According to the Contest Details / rules Word Doc you can download from the contest web page, it states that the video with the most public votes will be the winner, then the second most votes will get 2nd place and the third most votes will get 3rd place.

So it will be votes from BOTH YT channels. Because, if they only count votes from one channel and more votes are on the other YT channel (that is not being counted) then that would be completely unfair (and subject to possible legal challenges).


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## [email protected]

Well all of this only really matters if you get selected.


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## ArthurNeeman

Hi! Can there be added credits at the end of video? Like "Music by..."


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## ClaudioT

Hello everbody! It's been a while since my last post here.

I never composed for videos and decided to participate just to test my level.
If it doesn't bother, here's the link of my version of the trailer:


(should I open a separate topic for this?)

I'd like to hear comments, and I also would like to watch submissions of other members - even for the alternative contest Kazoo of Hell!


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## Pappaus

Hello all - Claudio - I really enjoyed your score. I wish I had gone in some of the directions that you had. This my attempt where I was trying to improve my deficient brass and percussion skills. Also trying for some bombast as well. 

I never listen to anyone else’s contest entries until I have entered mine and I always kick myself afterward. Always so many approaches to even the smallest cues.


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## Manfred

Here’s my entry...however, I am only focusing on Sound Design for this one given the time availability I have (may add music down the line). Good luck all!


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## tritonely

My first ever music competition. Any feedback is welcome! Made in Cubase with PS Vista, SA CDT, SS Percussion Essentials, Cinebrass Sonore, Sonuscore Action Strings 2, NI Arkhis, ProjectSam Pandora Core, OT Metropolis Ark 4, AV Infinite Woodwinds, SA BBCSO Core, OT Modus, VSL BBO Fornax, Steven Slate Drums 5.


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## Pappaus

tritonely said:


> My first ever music competition. Any feedback is welcome! Made in Cubase with PS Vista, SA CDT, SS Percussion Essentials, Cinebrass Sonore, Sonuscore Action Strings 2, NI Arkhis, ProjectSam Pandora Core, OT Metropolis Ark 4, AV Infinite Woodwinds, SA BBCSO Core, OT Modus, VSL BBO Fornax, Steven Slate Drums 5.



Wow!! Nice opening - Loved the drums - It had a great vibe - The only thing I would do differently is that the mix was a little too loud for the voice over.

Good luck - nice job.


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## ClaudioT

Pappaus said:


> Hello all - Claudio - I really enjoyed your score. I wish I had gone in some of the directions that you had. This my attempt where I was trying to improve my deficient brass and percussion skills. Also trying for some bombast as well.
> 
> I never listen to anyone else’s contest entries until I have entered mine and I always kick myself afterward. Always so many approaches to even the smallest cues.


I know! The same has happened to me too.
I enjoyed your score too!


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## ClaudioT

Manfred said:


> Here’s my entry...however, I am only focusing on Sound Design for this one given the time availability I have (may add music down the line). Good luck all!


I like the booms. Where did you take them from?


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## ClaudioT

tritonely said:


> My first ever music competition. Any feedback is welcome! Made in Cubase with PS Vista, SA CDT, SS Percussion Essentials, Cinebrass Sonore, Sonuscore Action Strings 2, NI Arkhis, ProjectSam Pandora Core, OT Metropolis Ark 4, AV Infinite Woodwinds, SA BBCSO Core, OT Modus, VSL BBO Fornax, Steven Slate Drums 5.


I agree with Pappaus the mix was a bit too loud compared to the voice, and maybe the drums could have bee louder.
I like the theme and the sounds of strings and brass!


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## NickThacker

Wow... amazing entries, as always. Here's mine:


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## Manfred

ClaudioT said:


> I like the booms. Where did you take them from?


Gravity!


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## D4Disgruntled

ArthurNeeman said:


> Hi! Can there be added credits at the end of video? Like "Music by..."


No. Your info will be placed in the Title and video description on YouTube when it is posted by Sonoscore and Best Services.


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## D4Disgruntled

Manfred said:


> Here’s my entry...however, I am only focusing on Sound Design for this one given the time availability I have (may add music down the line). Good luck all!



Where did you get this copy of the video. Did you re-edit the video? You have repeating footage of a crow in the trees and that was not there before.


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## D4Disgruntled

I entered the contest. While in the past I have posted my entries on this site, for this one, once Sonoscore posts the entries on their YouTube Channel I will share the link here.


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## ClaudioT

D4Disgruntled said:


> I entered the contest. While in the past I have posted my entries on this site, for this one, once Sonoscore posts the entries on their YouTube Channel I will share the link here.


Don’t they post it only if you make it to the shortlist? (not sure, haven’t read carefully)


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## Genian

Its mine ☺️☺️☺️


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## [email protected]

Hey, the contest winners have been announced. But the funny thing the video is completely different.
Everyone on this thread has scored to a different video (so did I). I don't understand. Could someone help me out??


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## [email protected]

[email protected] said:


> Hey, the contest winners have been announced. But the funny thing the video is completely different.
> Everyone on this thread has scored to a different video (so did I). I don't understand. Could someone help me out??


They seem to have re-posted the selections from the previous Elysion Contest. Not sure what's happening


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## Pappaus

[email protected] said:


> They seem to have re-posted the selections from the previous Elysion Contest. Not sure what's happening


That’s a relief! I thought I had somehow downloaded the wrong video.


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## Pappaus

Boo! - Just go to Sonuscore.com and follow the links from there. The correct videos are shown there. The names are correct on best service but the video links are wrong. 

Oh well - Next Time


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## lastburai

Here is my entry not that that it really matters.


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## tebling

Just listened to the ten finalists and voted.

Some really great entries here! However, looking back at the notes I took, I eliminated four of them for burying the dialog. Folks, this is rule #1. Dialog is king.


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## blaggins

The finalists are amazing, well deserved all around. My entry didn't make the cut but I'm reasonably proud of it anyway since it's a big leap for me to do anything even slightly "epic" sounding.


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## D4Disgruntled

I am gonna be honest here. They all sounded the same to me. Yeah, quality of sound production is great, but that is like praising a movie for its realistic effects but not for the creative vision of the effect. It all sounded like stock music to me. I come from 40 years of exposure to all styles of film and game music and this trend in music styles in film music has not changed much since The Dark Knight.

These cues sounded like Zimmer-esque or overblown action movie trailers. All with similar string lines, similar power hit drums. Only one really attempted to do something with a chorus. The Saint Maud contest had more diverse entries and finalists than this contest did.

Okay, I am done on my soap box. So now here is my entry that was not selected, lol.


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## Louis Van Zandt

Can someone tell me what's wrong with my score? I'm completely bewildered!
The Orchestra contest entry by Louis Van Zandt


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## purplehamster

I didn't make the cut but I had fun making it.


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## freecham

Too bad the videos of all the participants are not online.... The styles seem more varied than in the final selection. But still, congratulations to the 10 finalists. Here my entry :


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## victor_nf

Hi there, I just prepared a YouTube list with the 10 runners-up, to ease the listening and the voting, in case it helps.





I didnt make it either, but anyway a big thank to the Best Service team for organizing it and for scanning 600 proposals in 3 days... wow.

Here below my own proposal, a bit too magical and classic - so I have gotten feedback about it.

Cheers
Victor


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## D4Disgruntled

purplehamster said:


> I didn't make the cut but I had fun making it.



Has a fun fantasy video game music vibe to it.


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## D4Disgruntled

victor_nf said:


> Hi there, I just prepared a YouTube list with the 10 runners-up, to ease the listening and the voting, in case it helps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt make it either, but anyway a big thank to the Best Service team for organizing it and for scanning 600 proposals in 3 days... wow.
> 
> Here below my own proposal, a bit too magical and classic - so I have gotten feedback about it.
> 
> Cheers
> Victor



Nice music, but yeah, wrong tone for the visual and vocal storytelling. I did like this though.


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## D4Disgruntled

Louis Van Zandt said:


> Can someone tell me what's wrong with my score? I'm completely bewildered!
> The Orchestra contest entry by Louis Van Zandt


It is not that anything is wrong with your composition, it is simply not the style they were looking for (based on the similar styles of the 10 finalists). You created an interesting sound design approach. If I have one constructive criticism to make it would be to push that distorted chorus sound more, and develop it as it reaches the end of the trailer. It was cool sounding but then it faded away and you “Mickey moused” the on screen text movements with swooshing sounds before briefly reprising the distorted chorus sound to punctuate the end. Mickey mousing is not always a bad thing but here you started strong with a neat sound design approach but did not follow through with it (imho) as successfully as it could have been.

You have good ideas here and an interesting approach to sound design. Keep exploring it and developing it.


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## D4Disgruntled

lastburai said:


> Here is my entry not that that it really matters.



That was a lot of fun. Lots of cool ideas going on there.


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## D4Disgruntled

One thing I noticed about all the finalists videos is the view count far exceeds any likes and dislikes. The highest vote is 15 likes out of 100+ views. What does that say about the entries when cumulative likes and dislikes for one video with 100+ views only gets 15-20 votes. Are people that lazy to click the like or dislike buttons now. Or is it a testament to how interested or not the entries are to the voting public that it isn’t even worth a vote? Lol.


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## Gian Luca Zucchelli

Hello everyone,
first of all congratulations to the organizers of this contest but above all to the 10 finalists, they are all well done compositions and with many interesting harmonies. I hope the best man wins.
This was my composition for the Contest, I hope you like it ...


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## D4Disgruntled

Gian Luca Zucchelli said:


> Hello everyone,
> first of all congratulations to the organizers of this contest but above all to the 10 finalists, they are all well done compositions and with many interesting harmonies. I hope the best man wins.
> This was my composition for the Contest, I hope you like it ...



I am surprised they didn’t select this one to be a finalist. It fits the tone and style of all the current finalists. Yet, it was more fun to listen to than most of the finalists. I found myself skimming through the finalists when after three in a row sounded similar.

yours was fun and had a nice flow from start to finish.


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## Gian Luca Zucchelli

D4Disgruntled said:


> I am surprised they didn’t select this one to be a finalist. It fits the tone and style of all the current finalists. Yet, it was more fun to listen to than most of the finalists. I found myself skimming through the finalists when after three in a row sounded similar.
> 
> yours was fun and had a nice flow from start to finish.


I am very happy that you enjoyed it, thanks 😀


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## Janosh

My submission to the contest, which did not made it to the final round. I would like hear your comments and your feedback.


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## blaggins

Janosh said:


> My submission to the contest, which did not made it to the final round. I would like hear your comments and your feedback.



I really enjoyed your entry Janosh, to be honest I'm a little surprised it didn't make the cut. It's fantastical, tight, very polished and professional sounding. I really have to hunt for something to criticize about it... but I would maybe say that on first listen the juxtaposition between the intro section and everything after "horns of hell" was a bit much, it felt a little disjointed, or maybe just too abrupt? Too big of a change maybe? However, on a second listen I could see the theme carried through "horns of hell" and the cut over didn't bother me anymore. I was also expecting the music to highlight the dramatic moment when the candle is blown out but didn't get it. The intro was lovely but maybe it could have hit the cues better? That's kind of all I can come up with. I liked yours better than some of the finalists...


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## Janosh

tpoots said:


> I really enjoyed your entry Janosh, to be honest I'm a little surprised it didn't make the cut. It's fantastical, tight, very polished and professional sounding. I really have to hunt for something to criticize about it... but I would maybe say that on first listen the juxtaposition between the intro section and everything after "horns of hell" was a bit much, it felt a little disjointed, or maybe just too abrupt? Too big of a change maybe? However, on a second listen I could see the theme carried through "horns of hell" and the cut over didn't bother me anymore. I was also expecting the music to highlight the dramatic moment when the candle is blown out but didn't get it. The intro was lovely but maybe it could have hit the cues better? That's kind of all I can come up with. I liked yours better than some of the finalists...


Hey tpoots,

Many thanks for your kind review. I have to admit that I was very much guided by the musical idea, which made it difficult at times to hit the cues as exactly as I originally planned. In the intro, it was often more important to me to connect the music with the speaker than with visual events. Maybe I would have found better solutions having more time. 

Very happy that you enjoyed it.


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## Pappaus

Hello everyone - I did not make the final cut but I learned a lot while doing the project and after voting today I have learned a bit more - I don’t know how these judges do it. I was ready to put my head through the wall after 4 or 5. 

It was always neat to see how many ways there are to skin a cue and I really admired some of the entries who seemingly effortlessly solved problems I was going back and forth on. I can’t believe I failed to make a bigger use of the candle going out. It was also interesting to see entires that put the music before the film nd others who let the film lead the music by the nose (I am guilty here). I don’t feel “robbed” that I didn’t make the cut due to a) the quality of the entries that did. And b) How mind. Numbed I got trying to judge 10 entries let alone 600.

In any event, really glad I participated and it was wonderful to hear everyone’s work (I have also listened to everyone who posted in this thread)


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## ClaudioT

Pappaus said:


> 8<---
> 
> In any event, really glad I participated and it was wonderful to hear everyone’s work (I have also listened to everyone who posted in this thread)


Same for me.
I've been listening to everyone's work in this thread and wondered how many different solutions different people have come with.
It was the first time for me composing at image and I've learnt a lot. And I really enjoyed participating.


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## dhmusic

Great job to everyone who participated 

The top 10 selections all did really well and I haven't decided on my vote tbh. I'm particularly glad to see all the diverse approaches posted here in the forum. I'll be going through again to take another listen to these and post some constructive thoughts.

My submission can be found on this pristine, brand new youtube channel lol. I used to do a good bit of demo work for a few vst companies but I haven't posted anything publicly in some years so consider this my attempt to break that pattern. In a way I think this has been more valuable to me as a rejection/loss where I legitimately tried my best to win:


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## dhmusic

ClaudioT said:


> Hello everbody! It's been a while since my last post here.
> 
> I never composed for videos and decided to participate just to test my level.
> If it doesn't bother, here's the link of my version of the trailer:
> 
> 
> (should I open a separate topic for this?)
> 
> I'd like to hear comments, and I also would like to watch submissions of other members - even for the alternative contest Kazoo of Hell!




Nice work Claudio - I enjoyed the Bloodborne-like energy. Here are some thoughts I had after watching a few times:

INTRO
I really liked this - Definitely caught my attention and the breath is a nice setup for the vocals that come in later. Good job.

I have mixed feelings on the the piano chord but I’m not totally against it. It might benefit from a change of instrument or a softer/distant quality. Or maybe establishing it again to help legitimize it a bit. I think I was generally unsure what it was punctuating though. On my first impression it clashed a bit with an otherwise strong brood you’re building up. I didn't notice it as much on later viewings, however.


BODY
I really like that you’re developing a clear theme across the whole piece. I’m sure you spent a good bit of time trying to decide on how the theme would be established in the first half and personally I found it hard to do in 40 seconds. It works decently as it is but perhaps it could be stronger with a few tweaks . One idea could be to establish the theme a bit later leaving more time to build the brooding energy while consolidating the "foreshadwing" a bit. But again this often feels like a tricky balance to strike and I think you did well with it as it is.

I think everything from the “Horns of Hell” logo through the end is solidly composed and engaging. Good job! 

On a constructive note, There were a number of visual beats that I think you could have capitalized on more confidently but I imagine you were fighting an uphill battle because of the tempo. I find it really helps to first map out the beats and hits to create a roadmap for a composition. Plus, this establishes some helpful limitations that might free up more creativity.

Finally, good job keeping the vocal clear, even with the added reverb (nice touch). 

I hope some of this is helpful - Looking forward to hearing more in the future 

Douglas


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## dhmusic

Manfred said:


> Here’s my entry...however, I am only focusing on Sound Design for this one given the time availability I have (may add music down the line). Good luck all!






Pappaus said:


> Hello all - Claudio - I really enjoyed your score. I wish I had gone in some of the directions that you had. This my attempt where I was trying to improve my deficient brass and percussion skills. Also trying for some bombast as well.
> 
> I never listen to anyone else’s contest entries until I have entered mine and I always kick myself afterward. Always so many approaches to even the smallest cues.




Hi, Pappaus 

Great effort - I really like what I heard. You’ve structured this piece well. I’m seeing a lot of intention with the edits so great job on that. I’m no authority but I think you handled the structure better than some of the selections.

The transition into the Hell Portal is handled well in your piece. You establish a nice rhythmic 1-2-punch on the “The Orchestra Complete” Logo. I really dig it.

Some possible improvements I thought of after several listens:


The very beginning could benefit from a more attention grabbing first couple of seconds. I liked how you followed up the transition into the moon though. The tone is a little ambiguous in the first 1 or 2 seconds but it becomes clear quickly afterwards.
I think the build into the “portal swell” could use more intensity and perhaps be a bit more unsettling. Afterwards I think it should hold on to the energy and keep building at least to the clouded sky cut
The second half could use a lot more bombast and drive. It sounds a bit polite to me. I know you said this is something you’re working on so just keep at it and you’ll get there

I think you have the right idea about listening to other people's stuff or examples in a similar genre. It won't make you any less creative. I think it’s awesome that you challenged yourself to write something without reference though. That’s great for testing intuition. I think it’s important to balance both of those approaches in whatever way you feel is appropriate and most inspiring.

Just my initial thoughts - I hope you find some of this helpful. Keep up the good work!


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## dhmusic

Manfred said:


> Here’s my entry...however, I am only focusing on Sound Design for this one given the time availability I have (may add music down the line). Good luck all!



Wow even without music this is working really well. Awesome sound design, Manfred. I considered starting with this approach and then going in and scoring it, but I don't know if it would have turned out this good. There's a satisfying physicality to all of the sonic gestures that had me nodding and grinning along. Good choices with the timbres/textures, lots of good decisions.


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## Manfred

dhmusic said:


> Wow even without music this is working really well. Awesome sound design, Manfred. I considered starting with this approach and then going in and scoring it, but I don't know if it would have turned out this good. There's a satisfying physicality to all of the sonic gestures that had me nodding and grinning along. Good choices with the timbres/textures, lots of good decisions.


Thank you so much. My intention is for my sound design efforts to be as “musical“ as possible. I appreciate your kind words and encouragement.


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## dhmusic

Manfred said:


> Thank you so much. My intention is for my sound design efforts to be as “musical“ as possible. I appreciate your kind words and encouragement.


You bet! If you decide to add music you should post it. Or PM me, I'd be interested in hearing it.


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## dhmusic

tritonely said:


> My first ever music competition. Any feedback is welcome! Made in Cubase with PS Vista, SA CDT, SS Percussion Essentials, Cinebrass Sonore, Sonuscore Action Strings 2, NI Arkhis, ProjectSam Pandora Core, OT Metropolis Ark 4, AV Infinite Woodwinds, SA BBCSO Core, OT Modus, VSL BBO Fornax, Steven Slate Drums 5.




Hi, Tritonely,

I’ve listened through a bunch and Man this is a really cool track! I want to hear the full, unadulterated version because it sounds like it’s really going somewhere.

Some notable highlights for me:

The understated orch hit at the beginning (Fornax?). It sounds really full and balanced across the orchestra and the sustains after the hit are a nice touch.
The meloncholic line you establish at the beginning is emotionally engaging and leaves plenty of room between the intro and climax to develop your themes.
The intro horn theme has an Interesting timbral quality - it kind of sounds like it’s morphed with a woodwind or something. Kind of otherworldly. Is that Sonore? I’m not familiar with that one tbh.
Somber, yet colorful chords in the first half
Those string runs from :57 to the end. Very Nice. I love your choice of accents on those and it sounds like it was thoughtfully written.
I personally like how the rock elements didn’t completely overtake the symphonic vibe.
The modulation towards the end sounds like it’s taking the piece in an interesting direction.

Some hopefully constructive ideas that may strengthen the piece:

Try bringing out some closer mic positions, particularly in the main themes you establish at the beginning. Clarity is being lost to the ambience.
There’s either a delay effect or timbrally similar instrument following/mimicking the intro horn line and I think it’s making it sound less confident. It might be worth exploring an independent harmony line instead
The dissonance around :25 sounds shy and uncertain of itself. Try clarifying the chord voicing or dropping it out.
The horns between :12 and :25 are lingering a bit. You could try leaving some space there or pass the line around to some timbrally contrasting sections if you want the note held as it is.
BRING OUT THOSE STRINGS AT THE END THEY ARE BADASS
The very end could sound more intentional and conclusive. One idea would be to leave the modulation out and conclude the main theme, perhaps with a truncated theme repeat or setting it up a few measures earlier. Another idea would be to cut the drums at “The Orchestra 2” logo. After watching that part a bunch I’m pretty sure the drums are contributing to an inconclusive vibe, which is only an issue in the context of the video.

Regarding the VO intelligibility, I have to begrudgingly agree with Pappaus lol. I think it’s possible that this is why your track wasn’t chosen. If that’s the case then I’m guilty of the same cardinal sin lol and tbh I don’t regret it - I had fun and I hope you did too. Obviously for a proper client you wouldn’t want to take that approach. But like… it was in the way of your badass track. Rude!

Anyway, I think you wrote a really compelling track. I hope you find some of these thoughts helpful and I look forward to hearing more


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## dhmusic

NickThacker said:


> Wow... amazing entries, as always. Here's mine:




Hi NickThacker,

Really cool track! I’m really digging the electronic accents throughout the piece. They have a really satisfying “rip” to them. What are you using for those elements?

Some additional highlights for me:


I like the intensity throughout the piece. It’s emotionally affective and kept my attention from start to finish
Nice blend of colors, both in terms of timbre and note choice
I particularly like your balance of strings, organ, and choir
The video edits you hit worked nicely, particularly at :27 and :37

Some hopefully constructive ideas:

Hitting more of the cuts could have strengthened this as a score, but as a composition I don’t think it makes a difference. It sounds cool to me.
It sounds a bit over compressed, particularly in the low end of the second half. But I think mine is too haha. It wasn’t overly distracting but addressing it might help the second half have an even stronger emotional impact. It might help distinguish the badassery of the horn lead.

I hope you find some of this helpful. Your track is dope and I think it deserves a title and it’s own release because it’s clear you put a ton of work into it. Keep it up! 

Douglas


----------



## dhmusic

Genian said:


> Its mine ☺️☺️☺️




Hi Genian,

You have a nice foundation here. The tone feels appropriately haunting and menacing. I like the escalation around :15 in particular.

A few hopefully constructive thoughts:


Try breaking the piece down into a few distinct sections that you can use as targets for a logical structure ex A-A-B-A. Then find some creative ways to bridge the gaps and make each section more impactful
Try developing a simple theme to help separate the different sections. I like the foundation but it can feel repetitive after a few cycles
I feel like the track loses a lot of musical momentum towards the end. I think it is important that this section has a payoff based on the expectations you’ve been building up throughout the track.
I think I see what you were going for with the hits at the end. They kind of line up with the quickly flashing instruments behind the main logo. This is pretty cool and most others I’ve seen didn’t hit those, I definitely just noticed them. I think in combination with the previous note this could be made pretty powerful as long as it’s kept really tight with the picture.

I hope you find some of this helpful. Keep up the good work!


----------



## dhmusic

lastburai said:


> Here is my entry not that that it really matters.



I'm hearing Nobuo Uematsu and Dark Souls all over this and I love it haha. Forget the contest, I wanna hear more of this


----------



## dhmusic

tpoots said:


> The finalists are amazing, well deserved all around. My entry didn't make the cut but I'm reasonably proud of it anyway since it's a big leap for me to do anything even slightly "epic" sounding.




Hi tpoots,

First of all great job - there’s a ton of good stuff going on here. You should be proud, especially if this is new territory for you.

I’m loving the variety throughout the piece and I can tell you spent a lot of time meticulously matching the picture. You made good decisions in how you chose to structure the composition. It feels like it’s more than the sum of its parts.

On a constructive note, your piece would benefit from a bit more thematic development, but I really like the overall structure, chords, and even that tasty bit of sound design at :27

It’s pretty clear that you have good intuition. If you like this style and keep at it I have no doubt it’ll become 2nd nature.

I hope some of these thoughts are helpful. I look forward to hearing more in the future 

Douglas


----------



## blaggins

dhmusic said:


> Hi tpoots,
> 
> First of all great job - there’s a ton of good stuff going on here. You should be proud, especially if this is new territory for you.
> 
> I’m loving the variety throughout the piece and I can tell you spent a lot of time meticulously matching the picture. You made good decisions in how you chose to structure the composition. It feels like it’s more than the sum of its parts.
> 
> On a constructive note, your piece would benefit from a bit more thematic development, but I really like the overall structure, chords, and even that tasty bit of sound design at :27
> 
> It’s pretty clear that you have good intuition. If you like this style and keep at it I have no doubt it’ll become 2nd nature.
> 
> I hope some of these thoughts are helpful. I look forward to hearing more in the future
> 
> Douglas


Thanks for the analysis and the kind words Douglas! I appreciate you taking the time to listen and offer constructive feedback. I think I see what you mean about thematic development. I don't really do anything with the motif I introduce in the beginning, and there's almost a second piece that starts with the "Horns of Hell" bit.


----------



## blaggins

tpoots said:


> Thanks for the analysis and the kind words Douglas! I appreciate you taking the time to listen and offer constructive feedback. I think I see what you mean about thematic development. I don't really do anything with the motif I introduce in the beginning, and there's almost a second piece that starts with the "Horns of Hell" bit.


oh, and hello from Austin!


----------



## Pappaus

dhmusic said:


> Hi, Pappaus
> 
> Great effort - I really like what I heard. You’ve structured this piece well. I’m seeing a lot of intention with the edits so great job on that. I’m no authority but I think you handled the structure better than some of the selections.
> 
> The transition into the Hell Portal is handled well in your piece. You establish a nice rhythmic 1-2-punch on the “The Orchestra Complete” Logo. I really dig it.
> 
> Some possible improvements I thought of after several listens:
> 
> 
> The very beginning could benefit from a more attention grabbing first couple of seconds. I liked how you followed up the transition into the moon though. The tone is a little ambiguous in the first 1 or 2 seconds but it becomes clear quickly afterwards.
> I think the build into the “portal swell” could use more intensity and perhaps be a bit more unsettling. Afterwards I think it should hold on to the energy and keep building at least to the clouded sky cut
> The second half could use a lot more bombast and drive. It sounds a bit polite to me. I know you said this is something you’re working on so just keep at it and you’ll get there
> 
> I think you have the right idea about listening to other people's stuff or examples in a similar genre. It won't make you any less creative. I think it’s awesome that you challenged yourself to write something without reference though. That’s great for testing intuition. I think it’s important to balance both of those approaches in whatever way you feel is appropriate and most inspiring.
> 
> Just my initial thoughts - I hope you find some of this helpful. Keep up the good work!


Thanks for the kind words and excellent points.


----------



## dhmusic

tpoots said:


> oh, and hello from Austin!


Omg hi! 

I stepped outside to look for you but I only saw construction and housing I'll never be able to afford lol


----------



## dhmusic

Pappaus said:


> Thanks for the kind words and excellent points.


You bet!


----------



## dhmusic

tpoots said:


> Thanks for the analysis and the kind words Douglas! I appreciate you taking the time to listen and offer constructive feedback. I think I see what you mean about thematic development. I don't really do anything with the motif I introduce in the beginning, and there's almost a second piece that starts with the "Horns of Hell" bit.


I think finding a way to bridge the 1st and 2nd half with a strong theme could turn the "2nd piece" feel into a real highlight. You took a more challenging direction but that leaves a lot of room for creative solutions. The hardest part is linking everything in a way that feels intentional and unfragmented. Still, you did a solid job for sure


----------



## dhmusic

D4Disgruntled said:


> I am gonna be honest here. They all sounded the same to me. Yeah, quality of sound production is great, but that is like praising a movie for its realistic effects but not for the creative vision of the effect. It all sounded like stock music to me. I come from 40 years of exposure to all styles of film and game music and this trend in music styles in film music has not changed much since The Dark Knight.
> 
> These cues sounded like Zimmer-esque or overblown action movie trailers. All with similar string lines, similar power hit drums. Only one really attempted to do something with a chorus. The Saint Maud contest had more diverse entries and finalists than this contest did.
> 
> Okay, I am done on my soap box. So now here is my entry that was not selected, lol.




Hi Matthew,

The sound design in the first half of your track is so dark and menacing, I really dig it! I was half expecting it to become like a club Berghain terrorcore jam or something haha 

Your sfx textures are all done really well at the beginning and use the stereo image nicely without taking up too much energy in the top end. The second half could probably use a few more elements to fill out spectrum a bit more, but that’s just my preference.

I think the pacing could be intensified a bit. One idea that comes to mind would be to consolidate the first half so that there aren’t any repeated elements, more like a step ladder where each time you hear something it grows more intense. For example:

:00 - :07
Leave as is (really nice “thump” btw)

:08 - :15 
Use the hit at :14 and pull the bowed cymbal and swell at :26 to the tail end of :15

:15 - :27
Use the horn chattering that starts at the portal shot here and pull the horn rip from the horns of hell logo over to :27 timing the sweep to start at the first flash and hit on “The Orchestra Complete logo”

Since the video is so short I think this might help give your composition more density while leaving room to go full force on the following sections. Of course take these suggestions with a grain of salt, I don’t mean to be too prescriptive.

I hope some of this proves to be helpful. You've got good stuff here, Keep up the good work!

Douglas


----------



## dhmusic

Louis Van Zandt said:


> Can someone tell me what's wrong with my score? I'm completely bewildered!
> The Orchestra contest entry by Louis Van Zandt


Hi Louis,

I like a lot of the elements you have here. I think they generally ruled out submissions that didn't contain more traditional music with melody/harmony and all that. You definitely have a strong foundation here for layering with a more traditional score though! I think it would work really well with some epic brass and string parts worked in. Maybe add some rhythmically driving percussion in the second half to push to the end shot. 

Btw That hit at :37? 
F*cking dope. Startling yet satisfying.

I hope some of this is helpful. If you want an opinion on anything in particular feel free to ask. Keep up the good work!

Douglas


----------



## dhmusic

tebling said:


> Dialog is king


Where my usurpers at?


----------



## dhmusic

purplehamster said:


> I didn't make the cut but I had fun making it.



Good job Jeremiah! I meant to leave feedback on everyone's posts but then I realized not everyone might want feedback. 

If you do just let me know and I'll give yours a more in depth look!


----------



## dhmusic

freecham said:


> Too bad the videos of all the participants are not online.... The styles seem more varied than in the final selection. But still, congratulations to the 10 finalists. Here my entry :



Great work Freecham! I meant to leave feedback on everyone's posts but then I realized not everyone might want feedback. 

If you do just let me know and I'll give yours a more in depth look!


----------



## dhmusic

victor_nf said:


> Hi there, I just prepared a YouTube list with the 10 runners-up, to ease the listening and the voting, in case it helps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didnt make it either, but anyway a big thank to the Best Service team for organizing it and for scanning 600 proposals in 3 days... wow.
> 
> Here below my own proposal, a bit too magical and classic - so I have gotten feedback about it.
> 
> Cheers
> Victor



I really like the piece itself. It's a bit lighthearted for a trailer that pumps the edginess to the MAX, but it might still work just by leaning a bit more towards a Danny Elfman/Tim Burton style of dark fantasy. I'm glad you took a chance on something outside the norm though and I hope you keep doing that in the future


----------



## dhmusic

Gian Luca Zucchelli said:


> Hello everyone,
> first of all congratulations to the organizers of this contest but above all to the 10 finalists, they are all well done compositions and with many interesting harmonies. I hope the best man wins.
> This was my composition for the Contest, I hope you like it ...



Hi Gian Luca Zuchelli! I meant to leave feedback on everyone's posts but halfway through I realized not everyone might want feedback. So I'm just wrapping up with the folks who requested it.

I don't want to leave anyone out so if you do just let me know and I'll give yours a more in depth look!


----------



## freecham

dhmusic said:


> Great work Freecham! I meant to leave feedback on everyone's posts but then I realized not everyone might want feedback.
> 
> If you do just let me know and I'll give yours a more in depth look!


Thank you Douglas, for taking the time to write these detailed comments. Feel free to leave a comment on mine.


----------



## dhmusic

Janosh said:


> My submission to the contest, which did not made it to the final round. I would like hear your comments and your feedback.




Hey Janosh, Awesome composition!

Your intro is really nice. It’s menacing but in a more palatable family-friendly way - I’m thinking like a dark disney film. The subtlety in texture is great and gives the impression of a storm brewing. The long cresendo through :36 sounds fantastic, but I think using :27 as a target for the peak of the crescendo would be a stronger choice. Maybe with :15 as a dynamic midpoint.

At the Horns of Hell logo ( :37 ) I initially thought it sounded like a 2nd piece was starting, but the thematic arpeggios are definitely in there from the first part. I’d bring those out a bit more to help anchor the key change into the rest of the composition, especially for first time listeners.

The rest of your composition sounds appropriately powerful and haunting, I really dig it! To strengthen it a bit I'd suggest driving the last seconds home by matching the turbulent, explosive energy of the ending animation.

Again, you did a great job. I hope you find some of this helpful. I look forward to hearing more in the future 

Douglas


----------



## dhmusic

freecham said:


> Thank you Douglas, for taking the time to write these detailed comments. Feel free to leave a comment on mine.


For sure! I'll give yours a thorough listen today. I appreciate the appreciation haha

I was kind of late to the party so I think everyone missed mine lol. I'm gonna post mine to a new thread to get some feedback. It would be great if you could give it a listen once it's up!


----------



## dhmusic

freecham said:


> Thank you Douglas, for taking the time to write these detailed comments. Feel free to leave a comment on mine.



Hey Freecham!

Great work! I really dig your piece and I think it has a lot of potential to be even stronger. I wrote a lot here but that’s just because I spent a good bit of time on it going back and forth. It’s not like “Oh goodness everything is a problem” haha.

Okay here are some highlights for me:

The VO is very clear. I applaud your strength in not giving in to temptation and drowning it lol
Nice textures in the sfx of the opening
The vocal melody is beautiful. I think you could capitalize on it even more by treating it as a theme that gets reestablished later in the piece.
Your drums sound great. There’s lots of clarity without losing body.
The chord progression from :44 through the end is fantastic. Totally my cup of tea.
I like the variety of rhythmic phrasings you go for throughout the composition. I can’t speak for what works in the industry, but as a fellow composer I find this more daring approach far more satisfying.
I love the choir polyrhythm idea introduced at the very end. I’m not sold on its placement but I'll go into that a bit more below.

Some ideas that might help strengthen the piece:

I’d definitely do something with the first 5 seconds. Like some sfx over the logo or a crescendoing ambience for example
I’m not crazy about the celesta at :14 but take that with a mountain of salt since my intuition leaned way more towards dread. I’d suggest trying some drop-tuned idiophones like Tubular Bells, Distant anvils, and maybe some Carillon if you’re in a particularly “Hunchback” mood
The frame at :27 needs some tightening. Something subtle like shifting the drum pattern so the last hit locks in with “The Orchestra Complete” could work. You demonstrated a solid grasp of hitting a lot of other edits so I hope this doesn’t seem nitpicky.
The balance of hybrid and traditional orchestra feels off to me. A few spots ex. glitches at :49 / :53 and booms at :04 / 1:05 feel like they distract me from an otherwise cohesive world you’re building. I’d suggest either leaning into the hybrid elements more in the second half so they seem more intentional or swapping them for some orchestral fx via timpani, gran casa, bowed cymbal, waterphone, woodwind multiphonics etc.
I wonder if starting the chord progression at :44 at the Horns of Hell frame instead would work better. It might help make that small fragment from :37 to :44 into something cohesive and confident that you could develop into a musical giant by the end
This would give you more room to establish that wicked choir polyrhythm and make it more of a payoff at the end, as opposed to hearing something that might require an adjustment from the listener hearing it for the first time

I’m trying to find the right balance in my critique style. I went a little more prescriptive with yours trying to offer some practical solutions but I worry some people might not like that and I don’t want to unintentionally insult anyone. What do you think?

Anyway, I hope you find some of this helpful Freecham! I really enjoyed your composition. Keep up the good work and thanks again for checking mine out 

Douglas


----------



## freecham

Thanks for your feedback ! I appreciate constructive criticism and all the points you develop are quite relevant. It's interesting for hobbyst like me to have differents points of view and you don't have to worry about your style of criticism, i find it benevolant.


----------



## J-M

Weren't they suppose to give out honorary mentions and such...? Or have I missed them? Or maybe they'll do it just before announcing the winner.


----------



## dhmusic

J-M said:


> Weren't they suppose to give out honorary mentions and such...? Or have I missed them? Or maybe they'll do it just before announcing the winner.


Yo J-M. I'm not totally sure. I checked the page and found this:

"Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram to see more “Honorable Mentions” videos in the course of the voting. We will show you a lot more amazing compositions that unfortunately didn’t make it into the final voting."

Doesn't look like anything is posted to instagram yet. I'm sure it's just a matter of time.


----------



## CyrilBellem

Here is my submission (yet another one )
It would be cool if you could take 2 minutes to give some feedbacks, what's wrong and/or what's right ? What should be improved ? Thank you guys!


----------



## purplehamster

dhmusic said:


> Good job Jeremiah! I meant to leave feedback on everyone's posts but then I realized not everyone might want feedback.
> 
> If you do just let me know and I'll give yours a more in depth look!


Thank you for listening in! I would be more than happy to hear your thoughts on my composition.

Just listening to yours - I like the panning effect following the eerie orange glow. A hint of John Williams with the use of those winds/brass from :50 mark

If you don't mind, what libraries did you use for your composition? Also your composition reminds me a bit of the Saw movies. I like it!


----------



## purplehamster

CyrilBellem said:


> Here is my submission (yet another one )
> It would be cool if you could take 2 minutes to give some feedbacks, what's wrong and/or what's right ? What should be improved ? Thank you guys!



Very atmospheric, simple and effective. I like how it slowly build up to the main theme. Fantastic work!


----------



## CyrilBellem

purplehamster said:


> Very atmospheric, simple and effective. I like how it slowly build up to the main theme. Fantastic work!


Thank you for listening and feedbacks!


----------



## Janosh

dhmusic said:


> Hey Janosh, Awesome composition!
> 
> Your intro is really nice. It’s menacing but in a more palatable family-friendly way - I’m thinking like a dark disney film. The subtlety in texture is great and gives the impression of a storm brewing. The long cresendo through :36 sounds fantastic, but I think using :27 as a target for the peak of the crescendo would be a stronger choice. Maybe with :15 as a dynamic midpoint.
> 
> At the Horns of Hell logo ( :37 ) I initially thought it sounded like a 2nd piece was starting, but the thematic arpeggios are definitely in there from the first part. I’d bring those out a bit more to help anchor the key change into the rest of the composition, especially for first time listeners.
> 
> The rest of your composition sounds appropriately powerful and haunting, I really dig it! To strengthen it a bit I'd suggest driving the last seconds home by matching the turbulent, explosive energy of the ending animation.
> 
> Again, you did a great job. I hope you find some of this helpful. I look forward to hearing more in the future
> 
> Douglas


Hey Douglas, many thanks for your detailed analysis!

I´ll go through in detail next week when I have more time, also for checking your track.

Glad that you liked it 
Janosh


----------



## dhmusic

Janosh said:


> Hey Douglas, many thanks for your detailed analysis!
> 
> I´ll go through in detail next week when I have more time, also for checking your track.
> 
> Glad that you liked it
> Janosh


You bet! And thanks I appreciate it.


----------



## dhmusic

CyrilBellem said:


> Here is my submission (yet another one )
> It would be cool if you could take 2 minutes to give some feedbacks, what's wrong and/or what's right ? What should be improved ? Thank you guys!




Hey CyrilBellem!


Great Job, man. This is overall a rock-solid composition with a couple spots I think could be a little stronger with some tweaks.


0:00 - 0:26

I think everything here is really good. It isn’t too busy and it holds my attention. The overall vibe fits the picture well.
My only suggestion here would be to do something with the moment the portal opens before the low brass hits. You have some higher brass swelling here that start at 0:23 and I think it could be reinforced by an additional intensifying element at 0:25
I can hear the vocal pretty well but it’s possible the judges wanted it a bit louder. to be fair I'm probably not the person to ask lmao

0:26 - 0:37

Again I think all this is totally solid. It’s it’s simple and effective. Maybe a little something when the candle blows out could work too.

0:37 - 1:10

These slow, majestic chords work great throughout this section. I think we were going for the same vibe particularly at the “Horns of Hell” segment by modulating into a major key. I definitely dig it.

1:10 - 1:23

I think this is the only major missed opportunity in your composition. I’ve seen a lot of submissions leave this part empty or just do an sfx swell but personally I think this segment is begging for a driving musical finale.
I hope some of this proves to be helpful. I really enjoyed the simple yet powerful majesty of your piece. The judges seemed to lean towards a particular compositional style and I think your submission fits as strong a candidate as many of the finalists. I suppose that’s just life at the end of the day haha. Either way, you should be proud, you’ve written a very strong piece of music. Keep up the good work!

Douglas


----------



## dhmusic

purplehamster said:


> I didn't make the cut but I had fun making it.




Yo this is a really cool piece! It definitely strikes me as more of a tactical JRPG vibe but quite frankly I love that stuff unabashedly. Besides, as long as you can find someone who agrees with you there’s really no wrong approach haha. 

If you really want to know the “right” way to score this I guess we’ll have to see who wins because I missed the mark. I can however offer some opinions on where your piece might be strengthened with respect to itself:

0:00 - 0:26

You have a nice theme here! I wish it returned later in the piece though so I could chuckle to myself around strangers thinking “Ahhh yes how profound... but what does it mean? What doesn’t it mean???” They wouldn’t get it, obviously.
It sounds like the woodwind melody is using a call-response structure like ABBA (not the pop group) where the 2nd B is a copy of the first B and the 2nd A has a little less steam than the first A, losing energy where it should probably be ramping up a bit - I think in part to the center-panned oboe dropping in volume while wider stereo, quieter, less focused winds takeover with pickups to the next part.
Regarding the structure, a simple remedy might be to change the direction of one of the B phrase endings, either up or down to contrast with the other a bit. And for the 2nd A around :24 try reinforcing the melody by having something join the oboe. You could use just about anything really, like low malevolent woodwinds an octave lower, a swell of horns to add impact to the portal blast, or a tremolo strings crescendoing to an inescapable swarm! Can’t go wrong really, just build that tension.
0:26 - 0:37

I like that you hit the portal blast. I think one more hit on “The Orchestra Complete” shot would help. Regarding the snare, maybe instead of “hit - rest” or “hit - hit” using a “roll —> hit” combo there would work better.
If you have a more robust percussion library try mixing up those additional articulations - rolls, flams, rimshots for example - in between accents. I often do this as a sort of grace note when I’m programming snares. If you don’t have those articulations no worries, there are ways to program this sort of thing that can still be quite effective.
I dig that tambourine. It’s a nice little detail and it gives a distinct Uematsu Spanish vibe in this context

0:37 - 1:20

I like that you’re picking up the energy with the snares
Working on your percussion programming chops is gonna open up another world of expression, especially when you really want to drive something home. Before long you’ll be like “Oh pshh that’s how they do that!”
I think you have a solid idea you’re going for here. The ending could be fleshed out a bit more in the low end to give more foundation to the chords and there could be some more counter rhythm in the middle voices for momentum. It doesn’t have to be on this track of course, just experiment often with layering, push it way too far, let it be be sloppy, and eventually you’ll figure out how to dial it back, clean it up, and bring that vision in your head to life with clarity

I hope some of these thoughts are clear and helpful and I REALLY hope they are encouraging at the very least. Once again, nice job and keep at it!

Douglas


----------



## dhmusic

purplehamster said:


> If you don't mind, what libraries did you use for your composition? Also your composition reminds me a bit of the Saw movies. I like it!



lmao I think I’ve only seen the trailers for the Saw films. I’m glad you liked it though! Here's a list of the libraries I used since you asked:

Strings

Westwood Untamed Quartet
Berlin Strings
Metropolis Ark 4
Dimension Strings SYNCHRON-ized
BBO Regulus String FX
Brass

JXL Brass Trombones a3, Trombones a3, Solo Horn, Horns a12
Woodwinds

Berlin Woodwinds + Expansions
Percussion

Berlin Percussion
BBO Fornax
Damage 2 (patch: Monster Ensemble)
Organ

Tallinn (various)
Full Ensemble

BBO Andromeda

So do you have any favorite OSTs? I feel like I heard some Fire Emblem vibes in your track.


----------



## CyrilBellem

dhmusic said:


> Hey CyrilBellem!
> 
> 
> Great Job, man. This is overall a rock-solid composition with a couple spots I think could be a little stronger with some tweaks.
> 
> 
> 0:00 - 0:26
> 
> I think everything here is really good. It isn’t too busy and it holds my attention. The overall vibe fits the picture well.
> My only suggestion here would be to do something with the moment the portal opens before the low brass hits. You have some higher brass swelling here that start at 0:23 and I think it could be reinforced by an additional intensifying element at 0:25
> I can hear the vocal pretty well but it’s possible the judges wanted it a bit louder. to be fair I'm probably not the person to ask lmao
> 
> 0:26 - 0:37
> 
> Again I think all this is totally solid. It’s it’s simple and effective. Maybe a little something when the candle blows out could work too.
> 
> 0:37 - 1:10
> 
> These slow, majestic chords work great throughout this section. I think we were going for the same vibe particularly at the “Horns of Hell” segment by modulating into a major key. I definitely dig it.
> 
> 1:10 - 1:23
> 
> I think this is the only major missed opportunity in your composition. I’ve seen a lot of submissions leave this part empty or just do an sfx swell but personally I think this segment is begging for a driving musical finale.
> I hope some of this proves to be helpful. I really enjoyed the simple yet powerful majesty of your piece. The judges seemed to lean towards a particular compositional style and I think your submission fits as strong a candidate as many of the finalists. I suppose that’s just life at the end of the day haha. Either way, you should be proud, you’ve written a very strong piece of music. Keep up the good work!
> 
> Douglas


Wow, what a detailed feedback! Thank you so much, it's very helpful 

I will try to do the same with your entry


----------



## dhmusic

CyrilBellem said:


> Wow, what a detailed feedback! Thank you so much, it's very helpful
> 
> I will try to do the same with your entry


That'd be awesome thanks! No pressure 

I ended up making a separate thread cuz I thought mine got a little burried haha. probably my fault, ironically 





__





Short Gothic Horror/Dark Fantasy Score - Feedback Please?


Hi! I entered a piece into the Best Service/Sonuscore and wanted some feedback. I posted it to the main competition thread last week but, alas, I think I was too late to the party haha. Not sure if anyone even saw it. Instead of going through my usual self-defeat patterns (seriously screw...




vi-control.net





Either place would be great, that's just where I have most of my feedback atm


----------



## Louis Van Zandt

D4Disgruntled said:


> It is not that anything is wrong with your composition, it is simply not the style they were looking for (based on the similar styles of the 10 finalists). You created an interesting sound design approach. If I have one constructive criticism to make it would be to push that distorted chorus sound more, and develop it as it reaches the end of the trailer. It was cool sounding but then it faded away and you “Mickey moused” the on screen text movements with swooshing sounds before briefly reprising the distorted chorus sound to punctuate the end. Mickey mousing is not always a bad thing but here you started strong with a neat sound design approach but did not follow through with it (imho) as successfully as it could have been.
> 
> You have good ideas here and an interesting approach to sound design. Keep exploring it and developing it.


You've giving me some helpful feedback! Sometimes you're so close to your own music that you can't see the flaws. Much appreciated and thank you for the insight. 😎


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## Louis Van Zandt

dhmusic said:


> Hi Louis,
> 
> I like a lot of the elements you have here. I think they generally ruled out submissions that didn't contain more traditional music with melody/harmony and all that. You definitely have a strong foundation here for layering with a more traditional score though! I think it would work really well with some epic brass and string parts worked in. Maybe add some rhythmically driving percussion in the second half to push to the end shot.
> 
> Btw That hit at :37?
> F*cking dope. Startling yet satisfying.
> 
> I hope some of this is helpful. If you want an opinion on anything in particular feel free to ask. Keep up the good work!
> 
> Douglas


Sometimes I like the less is more approach. However with trailers it seems that there no such thing as too much! Thank you for the suggestions and feedback! All the best. Lou 😎


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## victor_nf

dhmusic said:


> I really like the piece itself. It's a bit lighthearted for a trailer that pumps the edginess to the MAX, but it might still work just by leaning a bit more towards a Danny Elfman/Tim Burton style of dark fantasy. I'm glad you took a chance on something outside the norm though and I hope you keep doing that in the future


Hi Douglas,

thanks for your succesful diagnostics. Yes, I felt my proposal was kind of drifting away from the main plot, however decided to keep this atmosphere as to propose as you say something different. Still a lot to work on my side to be able to read the scene, however my personal taste will always be there I guess.

More generally, I reckon it is really inspiring what you are doing here. You are listening with attention to all the proposals and providing constructive feedback to everyone. I take my hat off for you sir!

Many many thanks!
Víctor


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## purplehamster

dhmusic said:


> Yo this is a really cool piece! It definitely strikes me as more of a tactical JRPG vibe but quite frankly I love that stuff unabashedly. Besides, as long as you can find someone who agrees with you there’s really no wrong approach haha.
> 
> If you really want to know the “right” way to score this I guess we’ll have to see who wins because I missed the mark. I can however offer some opinions on where your piece might be strengthened with respect to itself:
> 
> 0:00 - 0:26
> 
> You have a nice theme here! I wish it returned later in the piece though so I could chuckle to myself around strangers thinking “Ahhh yes how profound... but what does it mean? What doesn’t it mean???” They wouldn’t get it, obviously.
> It sounds like the woodwind melody is using a call-response structure like ABBA (not the pop group) where the 2nd B is a copy of the first B and the 2nd A has a little less steam than the first A, losing energy where it should probably be ramping up a bit - I think in part to the center-panned oboe dropping in volume while wider stereo, quieter, less focused winds takeover with pickups to the next part.
> Regarding the structure, a simple remedy might be to change the direction of one of the B phrase endings, either up or down to contrast with the other a bit. And for the 2nd A around :24 try reinforcing the melody by having something join the oboe. You could use just about anything really, like low malevolent woodwinds an octave lower, a swell of horns to add impact to the portal blast, or a tremolo strings crescendoing to an inescapable swarm! Can’t go wrong really, just build that tension.
> 0:26 - 0:37
> 
> I like that you hit the portal blast. I think one more hit on “The Orchestra Complete” shot would help. Regarding the snare, maybe instead of “hit - rest” or “hit - hit” using a “roll —> hit” combo there would work better.
> If you have a more robust percussion library try mixing up those additional articulations - rolls, flams, rimshots for example - in between accents. I often do this as a sort of grace note when I’m programming snares. If you don’t have those articulations no worries, there are ways to program this sort of thing that can still be quite effective.
> I dig that tambourine. It’s a nice little detail and it gives a distinct Uematsu Spanish vibe in this context
> 
> 0:37 - 1:20
> 
> I like that you’re picking up the energy with the snares
> Working on your percussion programming chops is gonna open up another world of expression, especially when you really want to drive something home. Before long you’ll be like “Oh pshh that’s how they do that!”
> I think you have a solid idea you’re going for here. The ending could be fleshed out a bit more in the low end to give more foundation to the chords and there could be some more counter rhythm in the middle voices for momentum. It doesn’t have to be on this track of course, just experiment often with layering, push it way too far, let it be be sloppy, and eventually you’ll figure out how to dial it back, clean it up, and bring that vision in your head to life with clarity
> 
> I hope some of these thoughts are clear and helpful and I REALLY hope they are encouraging at the very least. Once again, nice job and keep at it!
> 
> Douglas


Thank you Douglas for the informative and detailed analysis. I really appreciate the time and effort you've put into this.


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## purplehamster

dhmusic said:


> lmao I think I’ve only seen the trailers for the Saw films. I’m glad you liked it though! Here's a list of the libraries I used since you asked:
> 
> Strings
> 
> Westwood Untamed Quartet
> Berlin Strings
> Metropolis Ark 4
> Dimension Strings SYNCHRON-ized
> BBO Regulus String FX
> Brass
> 
> JXL Brass Trombones a3, Trombones a3, Solo Horn, Horns a12
> Woodwinds
> 
> Berlin Woodwinds + Expansions
> Percussion
> 
> Berlin Percussion
> BBO Fornax
> Damage 2 (patch: Monster Ensemble)
> Organ
> 
> Tallinn (various)
> Full Ensemble
> 
> BBO Andromeda
> 
> So do you have any favorite OSTs? I feel like I heard some Fire Emblem vibes in your track.


I've used Jaeger and BBCSO Core for my track.

Game OST: Bastion, Assassin's Creed, God of War (2018), Darksiders


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## dhmusic

victor_nf said:


> I reckon it is really inspiring what you are doing here. You are listening with attention to all the proposals and providing constructive feedback to everyone. I take my hat off for you sir!
> 
> Many many thanks!
> Víctor


I appreciate that so much Victor! Thank you, I'm glad I could be helpful


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## ClaudioT

dhmusic said:


> Nice work Claudio - I enjoyed the Bloodborne-like energy. Here are some thoughts I had after watching a few times:
> 
> INTRO
> I really liked this - Definitely caught my attention and the breath is a nice setup for the vocals that come in later. Good job.
> 
> I have mixed feelings on the the piano chord but I’m not totally against it. It might benefit from a change of instrument or a softer/distant quality. Or maybe establishing it again to help legitimize it a bit. I think I was generally unsure what it was punctuating though. On my first impression it clashed a bit with an otherwise strong brood you’re building up. I didn't notice it as much on later viewings, however.
> 
> 
> BODY
> I really like that you’re developing a clear theme across the whole piece. I’m sure you spent a good bit of time trying to decide on how the theme would be established in the first half and personally I found it hard to do in 40 seconds. It works decently as it is but perhaps it could be stronger with a few tweaks . One idea could be to establish the theme a bit later leaving more time to build the brooding energy while consolidating the "foreshadwing" a bit. But again this often feels like a tricky balance to strike and I think you did well with it as it is.
> 
> I think everything from the “Horns of Hell” logo through the end is solidly composed and engaging. Good job!
> 
> On a constructive note, There were a number of visual beats that I think you could have capitalized on more confidently but I imagine you were fighting an uphill battle because of the tempo. I find it really helps to first map out the beats and hits to create a roadmap for a composition. Plus, this establishes some helpful limitations that might free up more creativity.
> 
> Finally, good job keeping the vocal clear, even with the added reverb (nice touch).
> 
> I hope some of this is helpful - Looking forward to hearing more in the future
> 
> Douglas


Hi Douglas, sorry for the late reply.
You can’t imagine how much your comment is appreciated!

Just for (funny) information, before starting composing I mapped all the moments that I was thinking should have been hit in a comment track in Cubase. I saw that in a video on YT, I think it was by Dom Sigalas. But probably I didn’t pay enough attention to Dom: as soon as I started to input notes, I changed the tempo and all the markers went berserk, insolently out of place. 

I guess I still have a huge lot to learn.


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## dhmusic

ClaudioT said:


> Hi Douglas, sorry for the late reply.
> You can’t imagine how much your comment is appreciated!
> 
> Just for (funny) information, before starting composing I mapped all the moments that I was thinking should have been hit in a comment track in Cubase. I saw that in a video on YT, I think it was by Dom Sigalas. But probably I didn’t pay enough attention to Dom: as soon as I started to input notes, I changed the tempo and all the markers went berserk, insolently out of place.
> 
> I guess I still have a huge lot to learn.


Oh man you should have gone for easy mode and used the tempo (or subdivision) from the original trailer. No tempo map required lol.

Glad I could be helpful! We all have a lot to learn but yeah Cubase can be really fussy when moving tempos around.


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