# PC suggestions for a $1200 budget



## BitLink (Aug 4, 2020)

Hello, long time lurker here! I've been racking my brain recently trying to find a PC good enough for what I want to do musically. My current setup(Dell Optiplex 390), which started out as a light gaming PC but turned into music production later, just isn't cutting it anymore, and I would like to avoid freezing tracks as much as possible. To give you an idea what I'd be using the PC for, here are some of the libraries I own:

DAW: FL Studio 20 Pro
Cinematic Studio Strings(+ Solo Strings and Brass)
Embertone Joshua Bell Violin
Emotional Violin
EZ Drummer 2
Shreddage 3 Jupiter + Stratus
SSD4
Modo Bass
Trillian
Infinite Woodwinds
Sample Modeling Brass(all three instruments)
Palette(3/4 of the libraries)

And there's plenty more. I've been really trying to get into orchestral arrangements, but my computer can't handle more than three libraries at once before it gets pretty close to the limit. That alone has stunted my creativity quite a bit. It even spikes with three instances of Shreddage and a drum kit.

On a $1200 budget, I don't expect to have something like 300+ tracks at once. Could I realistically do something similar to a 30, or even a 40-piece orchestra within that price range? Is that doable with 64GB RAM, for example? I really want to move forward with orchestra, rock... Or both at the same time.

Any help is appreciated!


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## Pier (Aug 4, 2020)

I built a Ryzen PC last year and benchmarked Kontakt. I got about 1500 voices with Albion before hearing crackles. That was 123 notes playing at the same time looped, which is like 40 tracks with a 3 note chord.

Each note was playing instruments with multiple samples, reverbs, tails, etc, which is how I imagine Kontakt got up to 1500 voices.

Essentially:

* Ryzen 3700X
* 16GB of RAM (DDR4 3200)
* GTX 1070

I imagine the bottleneck was the RAM. I think 123 simultaneous notes is quite impressive even though this machine was built for virtual synths and no so much orchestral work.

You can see all the details here:





__





My Ryzen 3700X build for music production


I've mentioned in other threads that I've been building a Ryzen machine for music production. I'd like to share my specs, comments, and results. TL;DR: For my use case which is mostly using virtual synths, this thing is a beast. Specs CPU: Ryzen 7 3700X Motherboard: Gigabyte Aorus Wifi Pro...




vi-control.net





Can you wait a couple of months? AMD is going to release new CPUs which are going to be even better.


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## BitLink (Aug 4, 2020)

That's a pretty good build, if you were able to get that out of Kontakt. How much did it cost you altogether? 

As for me, my PC has an i5-2400 CORE @ 3.1GHz, GeForce GTX 760, and 16GB RAM. I really want to upgrade, but I was thinking of doing so within the week, or next week. The fact that I'm going towards orchestral leads me to believe 16GB, and possibly even 32GB RAM won't be enough according to the different websites and forums I've seen.


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## José Herring (Aug 4, 2020)

BitLink said:


> That's a pretty good build, if you were able to get that out of Kontakt. How much did it cost you altogether?
> 
> As for me, my PC has an i5-2400 CORE @ 3.1GHz, GeForce GTX 760, and 16GB RAM. I really want to upgrade, but I was thinking of doing so within the week, or next week. The fact that I'm going towards orchestral leads me to believe 16GB, and possibly even 32GB RAM won't be enough according to the different websites and forums I've seen.
> [/QUO3900TE]


16 gigs is limiting. I have one slave with 16 gigs and I'm in the processes of upgrading it to a Ryzen 7 with 64 gigs, maybe even doing 128 later this year. Libraries are very Ram intensive and you'll run out of RAM in a hurry these days.

Your PC right now is slow as an old dog, but your video card isn't so bad. The card is old but it will still be fine unless you're a heavy gamer.

If I were you for $1200 I'd see what parts you can salvage. Case, PSU are they still in good shape? Then spend the money on a TUF B550 Plus or better Mobo and Rzyen 9 3900x or Ryzen 7 3700x. 64 gigs or Ram atleast. 2x One terrbyte NVME cards and then get Sata 6g SSD's as needed, but I think once you have 2 terabytes of NVMe you won't need SSD unless you have a ton of libraries to load up.

If your PSU is bad, then replace it. You'll know it's going bad because you'll be getting random reboots or unexplainable BSOD's.

If you go Ryzen you'll get A LOT for your $1200.


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## José Herring (Aug 4, 2020)

Also on $1200 if you're clever you can get one of the fastest machines available before you hit the Threadripper ridiculous performance at an equally ridiculous price, level.


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## Solarsentinel (Aug 5, 2020)

I think he don't want a supreme pro PC build  So no reason for his budget to go with Ryzen 7 or Ryzen 9. A Ryzen 5 or intel i5 will be far enough. 

Here is a build:

- Processor : Ryzen 5 3600X or XT
- Motherboard : Gigabyte B550 Aorus pro (or Asus)
- Cooler : basic ryzen cooler
- Case : anyone you could have and suits to your needs
- PSU : Seasonic focus + gold 550W or the equivalent Corsair RMX
- SSD : 1 SSD 500 go for main drive (nvme if your budget let you) and another one of 1To for the samples
- Graphic card : if you want to play some games Geforce GTX 1660 or Radeon RX 5600 XT but it's a bit pricy for your budget. If you don't want to play games choose an Radeon RX 580 it will be good.
- RAM : i recommand to you 32 GO of RAM it will be enough for what you plan to do (i used sample libraries with 40-50 tracks at once and i don't use 32 go, but you can be limited with 16go) => RAM corsair, or crucial, or Gskill 2 sticks of*16go DDR4 3200mghz.

With little search you can have this build for 1200 bucks, but if you have to make a choice, sacrifice a good graphic card over the RAM and SSD. You'll need RAM and SSD for sure 

With this build you will be capable of handling what you plan to do with ease and will be futureproof if you want to upgrade on the near future.
And if you want a stable PC don't underestimate the PSU, it can lend you to a lot of issue if you take a bad one.

And as José Herring said, if you can save some old parts of your PC then do it, you can save some money. (but not the PSU lol)


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## Keith Theodosiou (Aug 5, 2020)

Like most here your best bet is to go to a specialist builder( if you are worried about building yourself).

You tell them what you want it for and you need to concentrate on CPU, Mem, Storage (SSD) and Power.
You wont need things like hi end graphics cards and some of the software they may install on it.

You just need it for powerful music production.


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## Henrik B. Jensen (Aug 5, 2020)

I’ve read that you get a higher idle temperature with Ryzen cpus compared to with Intel.

I take it this means you have to run your fans at a higher rpm than with an Intel cpu in order to keep the idle temperature of your computer nice and low.

My own computer is placed in a corner in the living room where it’s running 12 hours a day, often idle. So the above is of concern for me personally when considering Ryzen.


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## José Herring (Aug 5, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> I’ve read that you get a higher idle temperature with Ryzen cpus compared to with Intel.
> 
> I take it this means you have to run your fans at a higher rpm than with an Intel cpu in order to keep the idle temperature of your computer nice and low.
> 
> My own computer is placed in a cornef in the living room where it’s running 12 hours a day, often idle. So the above is of concern for me personally when considering Ryzen.


There are a lot of low noise fans but yes generally even on intel you'll need to send a tornado through your box to make sure temps stay nice and cool.


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## Solarsentinel (Aug 5, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> I’ve read that you get a higher idle temperature with Ryzen cpus compared to with Intel.
> 
> I take it this means you have to run your fans at a higher rpm than with an Intel cpu in order to keep the idle temperature of your computer nice and low.
> 
> My own computer is placed in a cornef in the living room where it’s running 12 hours a day, often idle. So the above is of concern for me personally when considering Ryzen.


You are right but it may depends a lot on where you live (ambient temperature), where you put your hardware, and how the air flow in the case settings + the quality of your fans.
Furthermore, it tend to say that ryzen is hotter than intel but not when you see the last gen of intel cpu that are very hot too due to their overclocked based profile. In fact ryzen tend to boost the speed of the air flow to cool them, because their boost clock is different from intel. Every little boost comes with a moderate elevation of the temperature which cause a boost of fans for cooling. The idle temps are between 45 and 58 degrees and will not go above 75-80 in charge with a proper cooling solition (for the 8 and 12 cores processors). So they not as hotter than we tend to hear.

In fact we all based on temperatures from older gens of cpu which are 30-35 on idle and 50 on charge, but with the number of core raising, we have to change our references. Now common temps are 50 on idle and 75 in charge.


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## Pier (Aug 5, 2020)

hbjdk said:


> I’ve read that you get a higher idle temperature with Ryzen cpus compared to with Intel.



That's true. Ryzen are more heat dense than previous Intel chips so the idle temps are higher.

Coming from Intel I was obsessed about keeping idle temps close to ambient but that's not really necessary. You can just configure your CPU fan speed to stay very low and very quiet until the chip goes above 65ºC. I do this on my 3700X and even when benchmarking with Cinebench temps do not go above 75ºC.

My CPU fan never really goes above 50% of speed, even when gaming when the GPU is heating the case. I do have 5 case fans though (3 x 120mm and 2 x 140mm). The more fans you have, the more airflow, and the slower you can run those fans.

OTOH now that Intel is adding more cores to their chips I don't think these will run as cool a before.


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## Pier (Aug 5, 2020)

BitLink said:


> That's a pretty good build, if you were able to get that out of Kontakt. How much did it cost you altogether?
> 
> As for me, my PC has an i5-2400 CORE @ 3.1GHz, GeForce GTX 760, and 16GB RAM. I really want to upgrade, but I was thinking of doing so within the week, or next week. The fact that I'm going towards orchestral leads me to believe 16GB, and possibly even 32GB RAM won't be enough according to the different websites and forums I've seen.



I spent about $1500, probably a bit more. Although I don't live in the US so I don't have access to the best prices either. I also started from scratch as my previous PC went to my gaming nephew.

You could salvage parts from your current machine too, like the drives and GPU. Maybe even the PSU and the case until you can afford to upgrade those.


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## Mornats (Aug 5, 2020)

If you're not gaming, put any money you'd put into a graphics card into RAM instead. That GTX 1070 you already have will be just fine in a new rig. Different story if you're gonna game on it though.


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## Pictus (Aug 5, 2020)

My take https://pcpartpicker.com/list/W3WJJb

-The cooler is wayyyy more silent and efficient than the AMD default, has concave base that
is a good match for the AMD convex heatspreader.








Intel Core i9 vs. AMD Ryzen 9: How convex or concave are the current heatspreaders really and what are the consequences? | Labs | igor'sLAB


We already know it from many (also mine) articles about cooling, thermal paste and heatspreader: really plan is really nothing. And while the quality of the radiator floors has really improved over…




www.igorslab.de




This video shows how to proper install, it is not the exactly the same model, but it is the same way.



-The Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard is very nice and has a Thunderbolt header.



-The Crucial RAM uses Micron E-die chips, they are the best for AMD because they are
less taxing for the memory controller and looks like the latest BIOS/AGESA use
Micron E-die as baseline, 3600MHz because Ryzen likes faster RAM





Ryzen Memory testing for audio, does it make an impact?







www.scanproaudio.info






-The 2TB NVMe SSD is reliable and very fast you can install everything there without performance
loss for audio workloads, but you may want to create a smaller partition for the OS/programs.

-The GPU is fanless
Some tweaks to avoid latency problems (the first one in the link is the important)





Nvidia Driver, no latency anymore?


Hi all! We all know that AMD drivers have from far, less latency than Nvidia drivers, and for that reason we all recommand an AMD graphic card for audio working. But recently i have dealt with a new install on a PC with an Nvidia graphic card. And when i updated to the latest driver i saw an...




vi-control.net





-The PSU is semi-passive

-The case is very good with the added fan.


If want something else





OBS:
You may stay with the provided AMD cooler, if you find it not silent enough or
not efficient enough, buy the Thermalright ARO-M14G
BIG coolers can keep the CPU more cool and be more silent...

You may also economize some bucks by getting the Crucial 3000MHz and overclocking
to 3600/3733MHz, the Crucial(Micron E-die chips) are VERY overclockable, I made my
3000 2x8 and 3200 2x16 to work *easily* to 3733MHz with the *excellent*
1usmus DRAM Calculator for Ryzen








NEW!!! DRAM Calculator for Ryzen™ 1.7.3 (overclocking...


AMD Ryzen Memory Tweaking & Overclocking Guide https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_Memory_Tweaking_Overclocking_Guide/ MEMbench 0.6 README https://www.overclock.net/forum/27960952-post4412.html HOW USE MEMTEST in MEMbench https://www.overclock.net/forum/28069030-post5047.html...




www.overclock.net




I would place a fan in the case TOP throwing air at the RAM sticks.


Do not update to the latest Asus BIOS 0805, stay with BIOS Version 0608.


I also have the TUF B550 motherboard for another PC, but had no time to test.
I will report back...
You may economize some bucks with MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX, but no thunderbolt header
and not much SATA ports and only one slot for NVMe SSD.





MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard







pcpartpicker.com




I have this motherboard with a Ryzen 5 3600 and works absolute perfect!
The MSIs have a very rounded BIOS and it is easy to set a custom curve to
keep the FANs silent, they also seems to be less buggy...

IF you plan to use 4 RAM sticks, consider get a motherboard with 6 or PCB 8 layers
as they have less interference in the wiring path, not a must, but better...








VRM on the new AM4 motherboards


AM4 Motherboard VRM list: X570 ---------------------------------------------------- ASUS: ROG CROSSHAIR VIII DARK HERO 16-phase[14+2] | TI 90A, PWM: ??(?-phase), 10K caps, passive PCH heatsink ROG CROSSHAIR VIII FORMULA 16-phase[14+2]*' | Infineon IR3555 60A, PWM: ASP1405I(8-phase), PCB...




www.overclock.net


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## José Herring (Aug 5, 2020)

Pictus said:


> My take https://pcpartpicker.com/list/W3WJJb
> 
> -The cooler is wayyyy more silent and efficient than the AMD default, has concave base that
> is a good match for the AMD convex heatspreader.
> ...



Amazing and informative post. Thank you.

I'm putting together a Ryzen 7 build with a TUF B550 plus board. 

Unfortunately when order parts from Amazon because places are still closed around here and the CPU arrived with the CPU missing from the box. Thieves at the warehouse!!! So, I'll have to wait another day to get the replacement. 

Once I do, I'll run lots of test on the system before I deploy it into my setup. 

I went with a newer cheaper RAM though. It's my only risk factor. The RAM came highly recommended as it used the same chips as many other higher priced models so I figured that I didn't want to pay for a name and would take a chance on the newer company. But, if it doesn't work out then I'll go with Corsaire my usual brand.


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## Rasoul Morteza (Aug 5, 2020)

José Herring said:


> There are a lot of low noise fans but yes generally even on intel you'll need to send a tornado through your box to make sure temps stay nice and cool.


When I built mine I went with the Noctua NH-D14 and a be quiet! case which has acoustic pads on both interior sides. I've got a lot inside and I can barely hear anything. It's running pretty much 24/7 and the temps have never been problematic, not even once. But I must confess the D14 is so huge that I can't even fully close my case door. So it's that silent with a literal gap haha, imagine if I could fully close the beast.

Although for those having temp issues first verify your thermal paste application.

Cheers


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## Pier (Aug 5, 2020)

All bow to @Pictus , the hardware god has spoken


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## BitLink (Aug 5, 2020)

Thanks go to everyone who could help out, including José Herring with what was suggested.

I wasn't feeling too well earlier, so I couldn't respond until now. I was actually waiting for Pictus to show up, too, lol. A lot of people value Pictus' opinions and builds, from what I've seen throughout these forums. Looking at that build, by the way, you say I can replace the wraith cooler with the Thermalright ARO-M14G? I was actually going to ask you about that.

Also, the other motherboard is just a suggestion if I want to upgrade the RAM a bit easier? So, if I didn't go that route, I can still get more RAM for the original motherboard you suggested? And, while I'm on the subject of RAM, the 32GB you have in that build will be enough for what I want to do with orchestras, as José Herring was saying? I am willing to go a little bit higher in price if I can get to 64GB. I'm starting to realize that $1200 may not be enough for everything I want to do, but I can afford it right now.


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## Pier (Aug 5, 2020)

BitLink said:


> I can replace the wraith cooler with the Thermalright ARO-M14G? I was actually going to ask you about that.



I don't have any experience with the Thermalright, but you should definitely replace the included Wraith cooler. It's super noisy.


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## Pictus (Aug 5, 2020)

BitLink said:


> Thanks go to everyone who could help out, including José Herring with what was suggested.
> 
> I wasn't feeling too well earlier, so I couldn't respond until now. I was actually waiting for Pictus to show up, too, lol. A lot of people value Pictus' opinions and builds, from what I've seen throughout these forums.



I hope you stay well!
Thanks for the consideration, but my tips are good as anyone else's...
I try to make as it was for me, but I may be wrong or forget some detail...
Use the information here as a guideline, but do your own research...



> Looking at that build, by the way, you say I can replace the wraith cooler with the Thermalright ARO-M14G? I was actually going to ask you about that.



Yes you can replace wraith for the Thermalright ARO-M14G, it is not expensive and very efficient/SILENT.
IF you choose a case that is not the Fractal 7 Compact, make sure it can fit the CPU cooler.
A review
https://www.techtesters.eu/thermalright-aro-m14g-aro-m14o-review/
Another option I like even more is the Scythe Ninja 5, but the COVID made it
expensive in some places... :(
I just checked and it is back to original price, but was not a few hours ago...





Scythe Ninja 5 43.03 CFM CPU Cooler







pcpartpicker.com







> Also, the other motherboard is just a suggestion if I want to upgrade the RAM a bit easier? So, if I didn't go that route, I can still get more RAM for the original motherboard you suggested? And, while I'm on the subject of RAM, the 32GB you have in that build will be enough for what I want to do with orchestras, as José Herring was saying? I am willing to go a little bit higher in price if I can get to 64GB. I'm starting to realize that $1200 may not be enough for everything I want to do, but I can afford it right now.



I can't help with the orchestras, but if José Herring says that 32GB is fine, then it is fine.

Not entering into technical details, using 4 sticks is more taxing for the memory
controller of the current Ryzen, but the motherboard with 6/8 layers PCB make
it a bit easier so it *may* compensate a little bit when using 4 RAM sticks...
But you can go just fine with one with 4 layers.
The Gigabyte B550 AORUS PRO is 6 layers PCB and only $10 more expensive, new lower price?


https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qXBhP6/gigabyte-b550-aorus-pro-atx-am4-motherboard-b550-aorus-pro



If want 64GB get this


https://pcpartpicker.com/product/mWmFf7/crucial-ballistix-rgb-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr4-3600-memory-bl2k32g36c16u4rl


Or this and overclock to 3600MHz


https://pcpartpicker.com/product/3dMTwP/crucial-ballistix-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr4-3200-memory-bl2k32g32c16u4b


I never tested this 32GB RAM chips or saw any good test, but they are *TOP* quality and
I doubt very much they cannot be overclocked to 3600MHz.


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## BitLink (Aug 6, 2020)

Solarsentinel said:


> I think he don't want a supreme pro PC build  So no reason for his budget to go with Ryzen 7 or Ryzen 9. A Ryzen 5 or intel i5 will be far enough.
> 
> Here is a build:
> 
> ...


My apologies, I didn't really see this post somehow. I'll look into this build as well, thanks! You say I could accomplish what I want to do with 32GB as well, orchestra-related and all?


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## Pictus (Aug 6, 2020)

Pictus said:


> Do not update to the latest Asus BIOS 0805, stay with BIOS Version 0608.




I updated the ASUS TUF GAMING B550-PLUS to BIOS 805 and no problems!
But did not enabled DOCP, here the settings are from 1USmus DRAM Calculator
overclocking the Crucial BL16G32C16U4R 3200MHz to 3733MHz.
In this Windows installation some stuff is disabled:
-HPET https://silicophilic.com/disabling-hpet-settings/
-Hibernation https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2859-enable-disable-hibernate-windows-10-a.html
-Core Isolation Memory Integrity https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...-isolation-memory-integrity-windows-10-a.html

In the BIOS:
- Spread Spectrum Control = Disabled
- Global C-state Control = Enabled
- Power Supply Idle Control = Low Current Idle(if you have a new power supply unit)


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## Solarsentinel (Aug 7, 2020)

BitLink said:


> My apologies, I didn't really see this post somehow. I'll look into this build as well, thanks! You say I could accomplish what I want to do with 32GB as well, orchestra-related and all?


Yes with this sort of build you can do all you want with orchestral products. And yes i suggest 32 go of ram instead of 16, you will be more comfortable and not limited. Ryzen 5 are 6 cores so don t worry they will handle all you want to do. But the build from pictus match your budget pretty well so if you don't want to save some bucks, go for it it s a beast!
At least, the thing very good with ryzen is if you think you re just with an r5, you can sell ot and change pour processor next year for a ryzen 4000, and you don't have to change your motherboard


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## BitLink (Aug 12, 2020)

Just wanted to say thanks again to everyone here. I knew the VI-CONTROL community would point me in the right direction. In the future, I'll report back here about how everything goes.


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