# Announced: Sonible smart:limit (release date December 13)



## doctoremmet (Dec 3, 2021)




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## Montisquirrel (Dec 13, 2021)

Its out:









smart:limit - the content-aware limiter - mixing with the power of AI - sonible


smart:limit delivers limiter settings in seconds and gives you all the loudness and dynamics info you need for confident publishing.




www.sonible.com





On sale for about 88€ instead of 128€, if you own some Sonible plugins you may get a even better intro-price. Mine is 64€ and I guess I will get it soon.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 13, 2021)

Same price here (€65).


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## Emmanuel Rousseau (Dec 13, 2021)

Very impatient to try this one ! Using Smart EQ3 and Smart Comp a lot in my mixes.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 13, 2021)

*sigh*

Bye money.


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## Montisquirrel (Dec 13, 2021)




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## doctoremmet (Dec 13, 2021)

Haha @Pier  on to the same thing apparently. I love the Sonible stuff.


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## Pier (Dec 13, 2021)

Goddammit I swear I did a search!


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## Pier (Dec 13, 2021)

Smart:limit is looking awesome. The DSP seems great, but the UI and presets put it on another level. Tons of competition in the mastering space.

L2 was released in 2017 and is getting a bit old at this point. I wonder how smart:limit compares to Elevate in terms of pure limiting quality?


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## Pier (Dec 13, 2021)

PSA: Sonible's Webshop actually takes your location into account to calculate taxes (as it should be).

If you're outside the EU, you will not get the 20% VAT tax.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 13, 2021)

I am asking myself the same thing, but I have decided to gift this one to myself for my 50th birthday later this week  so soon I’ll find out.


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## Nimrod7 (Dec 13, 2021)

A dream come true!

Ordered. It will save tons of time and trial and error to get the right levels for broadcast work (and countless times exporting, checking offline, or waiting for realtime metering to go through the entire thing).
Their pricing is ridiculous. 

I believe the only competitor is loudness control which Izotope charges $349:








RX Loudness Control Pricing Options


View pricing and upgrade pricing for iZotope’s RX Loudness Control.




www.izotope.com


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## Pier (Dec 13, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I have decided to gift this one to myself for my 50th birthday later this week


So that's why you finally got Zebra!


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## sostenuto (Dec 13, 2021)

Seem solid value at ~ $99., yet strictly home studio usage ( non-broadcast ), may not be justified versus current limiter results ...... 🤷🏻 ( _No B'Day 'til June !_  )


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## d4vec4rter (Dec 13, 2021)

Quite a fan of Sonible stuff. I have all their other Smart plugins. This was, more-or-less, a no brainer as with their loyalty discount, it came in at 65 Euros (£57). A quick test and this is definitely going to replace my Fabfilter Pro L2.


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## Nimrod7 (Dec 13, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Seem solid value at ~ $99., yet strictly home studio usage ( non-broadcast ), may not be justified versus current limiter results ...... 🤷🏻 ( _No B'Day 'til June !_  )


Sonible at times gave out free plugins, which if you have an account for it will give you a further discount.


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## KarlHeinz (Dec 13, 2021)

Really great one on first try. Simply put it on the final place in my actual master chain, just used the universal preset, followed the recommendations of the quality check, wow .

I did not even touched the soundshaping options (I am sure I will soon ). And with the advanced metering AND checking options this is at least 2 in 1 tool.

And finally some more variable presets (I have not touched either so far.....).

For 64 bucks (as I have all the eqs, reverb, compressor) this is really a great "finishing" plugin .


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## Nimrod7 (Dec 13, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I am asking myself the same thing, but I have decided to gift this one to myself for my 50th birthday later this week  so soon I’ll find out.



That's an occasion that you definitely need to celebrate!

Here is how to calculate the value of your gift for your birthday (not wife approved):

age * gas_ratio * number of children * (isolation benefit + 1) + tax return

*Gas ratio:* 1: no gas, 2: mild gas, 3: medium gas, 4: heavy gas, 5: no hope
*number of children:* each child multiplies the value because of the torture you went through years.
*isolation benefit:* In years, applies to isolation during 2020, 2021 and possibly the future.
*tax return: *free money that no one knows about and your accountant is under secret oath.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 13, 2021)

Pier said:


> So that's why you finally got Zebra!


Yep. (And Halion 6. Plus a pinch of Iconica to fill out the Mediabay nicely).


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## Drumdude2112 (Dec 13, 2021)

Bought it LOVE it….Loud as F*%K with getting smeary , not too ‘soft’ (not a fan of ‘soft’ sounding limiters ) not sacrificing percussive material, Total instaby….Stands toe to toe with my other offerings (weiss, dmg, fabfilter)
Their best plugin yet imo .


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## muziksculp (Dec 13, 2021)

Purchased  👌


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 13, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I am asking myself the same thing, but I have decided to gift this one to myself for my 50th birthday later this week  so soon I’ll find out.


So young and yet so...

Well, the years can take their toll...


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 13, 2021)

So, the loudness metering in the DAW is nice. I use Bute Loudness Normaliser. I don’t really find it a problem; but it would be for multiple tracks in a day.

But the bit that shows my ignorance is my confusion over why one would want an automated limiter. Is it going to reveal wonderful mysteries that just playing with the dials on, say, Sonnox’s Oxford Limiter leaves me missing?


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## Tralen (Dec 13, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> But the bit that shows my ignorance is my confusion over why one would want an automated limiter.


I haven't tried the plugin yet, so this is just speculation, but I can see a couple of reasons:
1. To get yourself into a particular standard (like broadcast) with the click of a button.
2. To have the limiting be program dependent, so that it doesn't do the damage that a limiter can do when applied evenly to the entire track.


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## Pier (Dec 13, 2021)

For $127 at BestService you can get the Smart:Bundle:

- Smart:EQ
- Smart:Reverb
- Smart:Limiter
- Smart:Compressor









Smart:Bundle | Sonible | bestservice.com


Smart:Bundle | Four special plugins by sonible | smart:EQ 3 | smart:comp 2 | smart:reverb | smart:limit | EN




www.bestservice.com





That seems like one hell of a deal.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 13, 2021)

Tralen said:


> I haven't tried the plugin yet, so this is just speculation, but I can see a couple of reasons:
> 1. To get yourself into a particular standard (like broadcast) with the click of a button.
> 2. To have the limiting be program dependent, so that it doesn't do the damage that a limiter can do when applied evenly to the entire track.


Thanks, I’ll read up on it a bit more. I have some nice multi-band dynamics plugins that I have’t been usin much that might be worth a revisit to give me a sense of it too.


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## Zanshin (Dec 13, 2021)

That bundle does look like a good deal and I have some BS bucks burning a whole in my virtual pocket...


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## KarlHeinz (Dec 13, 2021)

Pier said:


> For $127 at BestService you can get the Smart:Bundle:
> 
> - Smart:EQ
> - Smart:Reverb
> ...


This is a hell of a deal. I think with all intro, sonible account and whatever discount I must have payed around double to get them all .

The main problem was that sonible just did not get their shop really going with the "personalized" discounts. There I was offered products for cheep that had only one problem: I already have bougth them......So as good as they are on develloping products but the marketing in their shop.....so get it while its that cheap .

As I had a discussion today while getting the Limiter 5 bucks cheaper on bestservice as crossgrade (gone now) compared to all the products I already have on sonible I am not sure how long this will last......


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 13, 2021)

Is it as good, or better, of a brick wall limiter as ProL2 (at ITPs, as well).

I have Twin-L if I just want a limiter to throw on a track and also add some analog "color".


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## Trash Panda (Dec 13, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> Is it as good, or better, of a brick wall limiter as ProL2 (at ITPs, as well).
> 
> I have Twin-L if I just want a limiter to throw on a track and also add some analog "color".


For what it's worth, multiple YouTube mixing/mastering channels have stated they feel the pure limiting part of this is superior to Pro-L2, including White Sea, who is a professed Fabfilter fanboi.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 13, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> For what it's worth, multiple YouTube mixing/mastering channels have stated they feel the pure limiting part of this is superior to Pro-L2, including White Sea, who is a professed Fabfilter fanboi.


I've only seen the White Sea one, and I don't believe he got into technical details, as that's not his thing. I don't want impressions (or not only impressions), but cold hard facts. ProL2 is a proven workhorse for a reason - not just the clean, simple user experience. The CPU usage is another question. I kept sonible's smart compressor specifically for ducking, but still hardly ever use it because of the substantial CPU hit.

I'd also love to see a comparison with Ozone, which is the most direct competitor. Both the limiter only, and the smart modules that align with those from sonible.

Sure, I could do some of these myself, and I would, if it seems worth the time. I'd rather not spend the time if professional mixers do it instead, though.


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## pranic (Dec 13, 2021)

Crossgrade from any other Sonible plugins at PluginBoutique was only £49.13 and I had some virtual cash available, so managed to get a decent discount on this. Initial impressions are favourable. It seems to use a bit less CPU than Ozone 9, and gave a slightly better loudness than bx_console, but I have only spent less than 30 minutes with it so far. Can someone please convince me that I need not purchase something new every day this month?


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## Pier (Dec 13, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I don't want impressions (or not only impressions), but cold hard facts. ProL2 is a proven workhorse for a reason - not just the clean, simple user experience.


If you want an in-depth comparison on why Elevate is better than L2, here's a 1 hour long video 



Edit:

Elevate is available for $49 on BestService









Elevate | Eventide | bestservice.com


Elevate | Mastering Limiter with Brain | multi-band limiter | human-ear EQ | powerful audio maximizer | presets included | EN




www.bestservice.com


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 13, 2021)

pranic said:


> Crossgrade from any other Sonible plugins at PluginBoutique was only £49.13 and I had some virtual cash available, so managed to get a decent discount on this. Initial impressions are favourable. It seems to use a bit less CPU than Ozone 9, and gave a slightly better loudness than bx_console, but I have only spent less than 30 minutes with it so far. Can someone please convince me that I need not purchase something new every day this month?


Need not? As an addict, you (and I) are made out of need. You must overcome this need. Rise above. And to do that will require a brutal solution. 

Apply this strategy just for the month of December. 

Take a sample library that you like a lot, love even, and use very often. Make sure that it isn't locked, so you can get to the individual samples. 

Now, for every plugin you buy, permanently delete one sample from the chosen library. You get a whole new plugin at whatever sale price it is. And you only lose one little sample from a beloved library. And you are not allowed to re-buy the library. 

Pretty soon, you'd find yourself able to wait until January. And by then, maybe the habit will be broken. I hope so; because phase two involves bloodshed.


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## pranic (Dec 13, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Need not? As an addict, you (and I) are made out of need. You must overcome this need. Rise above. And to do that will require a brutal solution.
> 
> Apply this strategy just for the month of December.
> 
> ...


Seems like a solid plan. The only challenge, is that I'd also have to delete the samples from both my on-site and remote backups, which would be an awful lot of work! I'd consider hiding the credit cards, but I have a decent memory, and already memorized the numbers and CCV codes.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 13, 2021)

pranic said:


> Seems like a solid plan. The only challenge, is that I'd also have to delete the samples from both my on-site and remote backups, which would be an awful lot of work! I'd consider hiding the credit cards, but I have a decent memory, and already memorized the numbers and CCV codes.


Let's move straight to Phase Two. 

Do you have a very strong knife?


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## Trash Panda (Dec 13, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Let's move straight to Phase Two.
> 
> Do you have a very strong knife?


Careful. Some people would consider such methods, shall we say, the opposite of punishment.


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## muziksculp (Dec 13, 2021)

Is their Smart EQ3 very good ? worth buying ? 

I have some BService Credit of around $20. so I can get Smart EQ3 for around $40. , but not sure if I should.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 13, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Is their Smart EQ3 very good ? worth buying ?
> 
> I have some BService Credit of around $20. so I can get Smart EQ3 for around $40. , but not sure if I should.


Yes.


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## muziksculp (Dec 13, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> Yes.


OK, Thanks @Trash Panda, I got Smart EQ3 for $42.97


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## muziksculp (Dec 13, 2021)

Now that I have their Smart Limit, and Smart EQ, I need a Smart Composer to go along, sadly, I don't see that one in their store.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 13, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Now that I have their Smart Limit, and Smart EQ, I need a Smart Composer to go along, sadly, I don't see that one in their store.


Just pick up Smart:Comp and compress/limit everything until it sounds like you know what you’re doing.


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## kgdrum (Dec 13, 2021)

Pier said:


> So that's why you finally got Zebra!



@doctoremmet 

Temme - Happy Birthday you old fuck!!!

Do the right thing to celebrate the Big 5-0 and gift yourself Omnisphere!
🥳 🎂 🎶❤️🎶


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## Jamie Sun (Dec 14, 2021)

Imo AI plugins are still "half-assed".
Sonible won't replace my fabfilter.
Have demoed it, well, there is a video
that shows features of different limiters
and I agree with most points as to
Sonible smart: limit.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 14, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> Now that I have their Smart Limit, and Smart EQ, I need a Smart Composer to go along, sadly, I don't see that one in their store.


*Smart*: unusually gifted in intelligent thought, good at coming to rational conclusions quickly

*Composer*: works extremely hard to produce an oversupllied, undervalued artform that is treated with contempt, with little hope of success or reward

*Smart Composer*: does not compute


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## re-peat (Dec 14, 2021)

muziksculp said:


> I need a Smart Composer to go along, sadly, I don't see that one in their store


Smart Purchaser would seem a better plugin for you, Sculp.

_


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## rrichard63 (Dec 14, 2021)

Another glowing review from Production Expert:









Can A Smart Limiter Really Do The Job? | Production Expert


Machine Learning promises to democratize audio production for everyone, but can it make the right decisions when it counts? We put the very latest to the test.




www.pro-tools-expert.com





I haven't tried smart:limit yet, but from the description and reviews the workflow features really appeal to me. I think I can see myself using it during mixing for analysis and fine tuning and then, if necessary, replacing it with something else for the final product.


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## b_elliott (Dec 14, 2021)

I watched three of the videos linked to Smart Limiter.

Here it's the AI that interests me (not that I unnerstand much); however, after I watched this AI researcher's recent short clip (two AI engines playing on an infinite chess board: a re-enforcement learning study), I came away with the impression today's Smart this-and-that vst is still somewhat at kindergarten level.

Sometime down the road, I hope Fridman's level of AI, or better, will enter the vst food chain allowing composers to do their thing easier. 

I attached my raga-oriented ditty to match chess' India origins -- different than the HZ music in Lex's video.

edit: modified mix


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## SupremeFist (Dec 14, 2021)

I got this and like it very much! For synthwave/electronica, the "pop 10s" preset is excellent. But also the workflow/metering makes so much more sense.


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## Jack Weaver (Dec 14, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I got this and like it very much! For synthwave/electronica, the "pop 10s" preset is excellent. But also the workflow/metering makes so much more sense.


Has anyone tried this with orchestral or epic types of music - either instrument channels/busses or mixing?

Thanks. 

.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 15, 2021)

Hmm. Eventide Elevate Bundle for £84.28 (Time+Space) or a crossgrade to Smart:Limit for £55.38 (pluginboutique). Or just stick with Sonnox's Oxford Limiter, which already sounds fantastic.


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## b_elliott (Dec 15, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Hmm. Eventide Elevate Bundle for £84.28 (Audio Deluxe) or a crossgrade to Smart:Limit for £55.38 (pluginboutique). Or just stick with Sonnox's Oxford Limiter, which already sounds fantastic.


... or with IK's Stealth Limiter which I picked up as a freebie? 
My "limited" understanding: stick Stealth on my master bus (or on any clipping track) set it to -0.1 output = no clipping. 

New discovery for me about limiters is how they affect 
LUFS-I. 

Using Stealth Lim presets with nothing else on master bus, I get these Dry Render LUFS-I results:
Default = -19.0 
+9dB Tight mode = -10.4
How far did you get = -10.6
Overs Protection = -18.8
Parallel World = -15.8

It's when I use Ayaic's Mix Monolith I can dial in a specific LUFS (-16, -18, -20).

Still lots for me to learn....


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 15, 2021)

b_elliott said:


> ... or with IK's Stealth Limiter which I picked up as a freebie?
> My "limited" understanding: stick Stealth on my master bus (or on any clipping track) set it to -0.1 output = no clipping.
> 
> New discovery for me about limiters is how they affect
> ...


Yes, Stealth Limiter does limiting well. It doesn't try to meet specific targets, as you say.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 15, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Hmm. Eventide Elevate Bundle for £84.28 (Time+Space) or a crossgrade to Smart:Limit for £55.38 (pluginboutique). Or just stick with Sonnox's Oxford Limiter, which already sounds fantastic.


The Elevate Bundle is cheaper on Beat Service. Got it for $49.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 15, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> The Elevate Bundle is cheaper on Beat Service. Got it for $49.


That was a glitch which has since been fixed. You got lucky


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## SupremeFist (Dec 15, 2021)

Some people who know what they're talking about over on GS seem to really rate smart:limit. For me it's going to replace Ozone Maximizer on beatsy stuff. (Haven't tried it yet on orch/chamber material.)


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 15, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> That was a glitch which has since been fixed. You got lucky


I 


doctoremmet said:


> That was a glitch which has since been fixed. You got lucky


I'm lucky too. I just saved $49 and another (probably short) learning curve!


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## Trash Panda (Dec 15, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> That was a glitch which has since been fixed. You got lucky


Let’s see how much I use it in practice before we call it lucky. 😂


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## Jamie Sun (Dec 15, 2021)

I have kinda ignored T-Racks Stealth Limiter. Will have to try it again.
The following limiter review is pretty good
And imo Stealth Limiter is the best,
Elevate is pretty good, too, I am not sure about smart limit it kinda makes it sound
artificial, too digital sounding and kills the
natural sound. But might be good for edm?!
WavesL2 is not competitive any more, 
and Kazrog Kclip I don't like at all in this video


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 15, 2021)

Jamie Sun said:


> I have kinda ignored T-Racks Stealth Limiter. Will have to try it again.
> The following limiter review is pretty good
> And imo Stealth Limiter is the best,
> Elevate is pretty good, too, I am not sure about smart limit it kinda makes it sound
> ...



It may be that the perceived volume jumps up too easily. Turning the volume down - in or out - might help overcome that artificial feel. I’m not sure, though.


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## Jamie Sun (Dec 15, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> It may be that the perceived volume jumps up too easily. Turning the volume down - in or out - might help overcome that artificial feel. I’m not sure, though.


Ok, maybe you are right. But don't you also think Stealth Limiter is by far the best in this video? I have it for so many years and never used it.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 15, 2021)

Jamie Sun said:


> Ok, maybe you are right. But don't you also think Stealth Limiter is by far the best in this video? I have it for so many years and never used it.


I can't tell, really. But having used Stealth Limiter quite a bit, it certainly is very good. I might download a trial of the new Sonible one if I get a chance. I can't ever tell from a YouTube video.


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## Pier (Dec 15, 2021)

Jamie Sun said:


> I have kinda ignored T-Racks Stealth Limiter. Will have to try it again.
> The following limiter review is pretty good
> And imo Stealth Limiter is the best,
> Elevate is pretty good, too, I am not sure about smart limit it kinda makes it sound
> ...



The music he selected is really weird though. Would have been a better test if he had used something that is not so focused on the mid range IMO.

It's also really weird he compared the Kazrog KClip with the others. Isn't KClip just a clipper?

Personally, I found Elevate and smart:limit to be the best.

Edit:

Ok, no. KClip isn't just a clipper. The website says "MASTERING CLIPPER, LOUDNESS METER, MULTIBAND SATURATOR".









KClip 3


KClip 3.5 - New and Improved! On March 16, 2022, Kazrog released KClip 3.5, a free update for KClip 3 owners (also available for a nominal upgrade fee for owners of KClip 2 and earlier.) What's new in KClip 3.5? • New UI design with improved visualiser, OpenGL support, and visualiser disable•...




kazrog.com


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## Zanshin (Dec 15, 2021)

Pier said:


> The music he selected is really weird though. Would have been better a better test if he had used something that is not so focused on the mid range IMO.


Did you pick this up then? Have you had time to compare to Elevate? (which I bought on your recommendation and love) I'm tempted by the bundle. But I've been trying to "Marie Kondo" my plugins haha.


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## Pier (Dec 15, 2021)

Zanshin said:


> Did you pick this up then? Have you had time to compare to Elevate? (which I bought on your recommendation and love) I'm tempted by the bundle. But I've been trying to "Marie Kondo" my plugins haha.


I haven't!

I've been using FabFilter L2 for years and actually just got Elevate myself on the $49 glitch at BestService.

_cough_ I'm actually selling L2 😂 _cough_


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## Jamie Sun (Dec 15, 2021)

Pier said:


> The music he selected is really weird though. Would have been a better test if he had used something that is not so focused on the mid range IMO.
> 
> It's also really weird he compared the Kazrog KClip with the others. Isn't KClip just a clipper?
> 
> ...




KClip is a little disappointing imo
Yeah, Elevate is pretty good.
No, I like the music, it's right up my
alley. I like this channel a lot mainly
because of the music.
You feel that there is a real musician,
in one video he mentions that he was
a busker for some years,
there's also some blues or soft rock.
I am tired of edm, hop hop or heavy metal
in reviews.


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## Zanshin (Dec 15, 2021)

That glitch! I think I paid twice that, but worth it, it has a such a great character. Also I was able to crossgrade and get Generate for a good price too. I think at this point I'd buy anything Newfangled puts out.


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## Pier (Dec 15, 2021)

Jamie Sun said:


> No, I like the music, it's right up my
> alley. I like this channel a lot mainly
> because of the music.


Oh I didn't mean the music itself, I couldn't care less about that.

I meant that a track with more low end could have been able to better showcase the multiband capabilities of all those limiters.


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## Jamie Sun (Dec 15, 2021)

Pier said:


> Oh I didn't mean the music itself, I couldn't care less about that.
> 
> I meant that a track with more low end could have been able to better showcase the multiband capabilities of all those limiters.


Sorry, I don't agree. Track is perfect.
If you try to find something to grumble at, you will always find something,
if you want to.
I think review is dope.
And since I already have elevate and
Stealth Limiter and some more I am not going to buy Sonible and I also think
the analyzing feature is more or less
useless generally as to all sonible plugins.

And I listened once more,
with Sonible the song does not
sound natural any more imo
Sonible kinda extracts the natural
sound and adds something unpleasant


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## Jamie Sun (Dec 15, 2021)

All these extra features with bass controller and who knows what and
a too short analyzing time is nonsense imo. You don't need that in a mastering
limiter.
It's like someone build a bicycle with a
smoky exhaust-pipe. Who wants that? ,
makes no sense.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 15, 2021)

I'm getting strong KVR vibes


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## SupremeFist (Dec 15, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I'm getting strong KVR vibes


To be fair kvr has rather a good and informative thread on this.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 15, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> To be fair kvr has rather a good and informative thread on this.


I do consult KVR from time to time. But after my insatiable hunger for actual information has been satisfied I typically do not stay for the pleasant dialogues.


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## kgdrum (Dec 15, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> I'm getting strong KVR vibes



I’m also getting strong vibes with this but the letters aren’t KVR……………….


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## Jamie Sun (Dec 15, 2021)

Trash Panda said:


> For what it's worth, multiple YouTube mixing/mastering channels have stated they feel the pure limiting part of this is superior to Pro-L2, including White Sea, who is a professed Fabfilter fanboi.


He started his snake oil plugins videos some time ago. Imo his channel has become snake oil, as well. He applies plugins on mastered mixes, his reviews are not worth a penny imo.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 15, 2021)

I tried the limiter and... hmm. I think the practicality of use rules it out - I'm typically running in lower latency (7.7ms according to S1) and at 96khz. I tried one instance of this new limiter and it was a crackle-fest even though there were hardly any other plugins enabled, and they were lighter weight ones, at that. It just uses too much CPU, at least in v1.0.

I don't mix enough to warrant even the $55 crossgrade to get a limiter plugin of all things, when I'm satisfied (and know) the still-excellent ProL2. I could potentially see a use to use within Ozone when mastering a track instead of Ozone's own limiter, though... but I'm moving away from Ozone, as well. More likely I use Mixbus32C for mixing/mastering, and the limiter is unlikely to play well there, as well, even at 1024 buffer, given the higher overhead.

I didn't get a chance yet, if I bother, to test how good of a brickwall limiter it is, controlling ITP, etc. Given the heavy CPU, it is surely oversampling, so is likely to work well in that regard. But I've not yet seen anyone or any measure of such a fundamental feature of a limiter intended for use on the mixbus.


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## Pier (Dec 15, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I tried the limiter and... hmm. I think the practicality of use rules it out - I'm typically running in lower latency (7.7ms according to S1) and at 96khz. I tried one instance of this new limiter and it was a crackle-fest even though there were hardly any other plugins enabled, and they were lighter weight ones, at that. It just uses too much CPU, at least in v1.0.


Do you use your mastering chain while composing and/or mixing?


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 15, 2021)

Pier said:


> Do you use your mastering chain while composing and/or mixing?


Pieces of it, and also toggle on and off at times the whole thing. It definitely wouldn't work as a track or bus limiter for me at this point (maybe in the future with a better CPU than a 9900K), but I haven't 100% shut the door for use during the final mixdown. Just skeptical... but I still haven't uninstalled it 

The 30-day evaluation is generous, and I'll have vacation time coming up soon to really get into it. There may also be a chance for this to be a late addition as a delivery from Santa. Heh.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 15, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> I tried the limiter and... hmm. I think the practicality of use rules it out - I'm typically running in lower latency (7.7ms according to S1) and at 96khz. I tried one instance of this new limiter and it was a crackle-fest even though there were hardly any other plugins enabled, and they were lighter weight ones, at that. It just uses too much CPU, at least in v1.0.
> 
> I don't mix enough to warrant even the $55 crossgrade to get a limiter plugin of all things, when I'm satisfied (and know) the still-excellent ProL2. I could potentially see a use to use within Ozone when mastering a track instead of Ozone's own limiter, though... but I'm moving away from Ozone, as well. More likely I use Mixbus32C for mixing/mastering, and the limiter is unlikely to play well there, as well, even at 1024 buffer, given the higher overhead.
> 
> I didn't get a chance yet, if I bother, to test how good of a brickwall limiter it is, controlling ITP, etc. Given the heavy CPU, it is surely oversampling, so is likely to work well in that regard. But I've not yet seen anyone or any measure of such a fundamental feature of a limiter intended for use on the mixbus.


I tried it whilst live playing a synthesiser just to test it's CPU use. Crackles and audio death abounded. Mastering, it would only be combined with a few other plugins, but it's enough of a concern for me to leave it at that.


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## sostenuto (Dec 15, 2021)

Wonder if Equivocate and Raum qualify for Crossgrade to smart:limit ?


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 15, 2021)

sostenuto said:


> Wonder if Equivocate and Raum qualify for Crossgrade to smart:limit ?


I think so. Check on PluginBoutique. I'm sure it said any Sonible product would do.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 15, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> I tried it whilst live playing a synthesiser just to test it's CPU use. Crackles and audio death abounded. Mastering, it would only be combined with a few other plugins, but it's enough of a concern for me to leave it at that.


I dunno, cpu usage seems absolutely fine to me (mac mini 6-core i7, live mix with 30 softsynth & sample tracks and a bunch of other mastering plugins active too). At this stage I run at 1024 buffer as I'm not playing anything more in live.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 15, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> I think so. Check on PluginBoutique. I'm sure it said any Sonible product would do.


But those aren’t Sonible products… so I think absolutely not @sostenuto


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 15, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I dunno, cpu usage seems absolutely fine to me (mac mini 6-core i7, live mix with 30 softsynth & sample tracks and a bunch of other mastering plugins active too). At this stage I run at 1024 buffer as I'm not playing anything more in live.


There can be so many factors, I'm sure it be fine for most people. They'll have tested it, after all! I could just use a little less trouble shooting in my own immediate future!


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 15, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


> But those aren’t Sonible products… so I think absolutely not @sostenuto


I was thinking of Frei:Raum!


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## SupremeFist (Dec 15, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> There can be so many factors, I'm sure it be fine for most people. They'll have tested it, after all! I could just use a little less trouble shooting in my own immediate future!


But is playing an instrument live into an oversampling limiter a reasonable stress test?


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 15, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> But is playing an instrument live into an oversampling limiter a reasonable stress test?


It is when a) every other limiter can handle it andb) you want to combine the limiter with other plugins you know already hit the CPU hard. 

Plus, I use limiters for all sorts of purposes, not just mastering. A limited limiter is a bit, er, limiting!


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## SupremeFist (Dec 15, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> It is when a) every other limiter can handle it andb) you want to combine the limiter with other plugins you know already hit the CPU hard.
> 
> Plus, I use limiters for all sorts of purposes, not just mastering. A limited limiter is a bit, er, limiting!


Haha OK!


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## Pier (Dec 15, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> It is when a) every other limiter can handle it andb) you want to combine the limiter with other plugins you know already hit the CPU hard.


But not all limiters are created equal.

Mastering limiters have become very specialized tools that do a lot more than limiting peaks. If you look at Elevate for example it's a combination of filter bank, EQ, transient shaper, clipper, and saturation. I'm sure most solution in the market (L2, Ozone, etc) do something similar behind the curtains.


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## Trash Panda (Dec 15, 2021)

I'm sure they will release a low latency version as a 1.x update at some point.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 15, 2021)

I mean I take it as given, very crudely, that advances in signal processing will require greater processing power, so I'm always a bit baffled by those who complain about the CPU hit of some cool new thing. If it didn't stress the CPU as much it wouldn't be as cool and new!


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## sostenuto (Dec 15, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> I was thinking of Frei:Raum!


THX all .... turns out long-forgotten 2018 Focusrite 'deal' got Smart: EQ 2 & Balancer. 
Should be fine now, and Denise - My Crush freebie as well _ at PiB. 👍🏻


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 15, 2021)

Pier said:


> But not all limiters are created equal.
> 
> Mastering limiters have become very specialized tools that do a lot more than limiting peaks. If you look at Elevate for example it's a combination of filter bank, EQ, transient shaper, clipper, and saturation. I'm sure most solution in the market (L2, Ozone, etc) do something similar behind the curtains.


Pier, tell me, do you need me to buy a copy of Elevate from you? I mean, I could lend you money if you need it....


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## Pier (Dec 15, 2021)

Bee_Abney said:


> Pier, tell me, do you need me to buy a copy of Elevate from you? I mean, I could lend you money if you need it....


Ok ok point taken 😂

To be fair, I used Elevate as an example because I think it's the only _mastering_ limiter that shows what it does at each step.

(And no, I'm not selling Elevate!)


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## Joël Dollié (Dec 15, 2021)

I personally never understood multiband limiters. They just mess with the mix too much. I really don't like them.

They ruin any kind of glue compression you might have too cause now the kicks don't really help the music breathe, even with a couple db they just get weaker so the music loses power.


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 15, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I mean I take it as given, very crudely, that advances in signal processing will require greater processing power, so I'm always a bit baffled by those who complain about the CPU hit of some cool new thing. If it didn't stress the CPU as much it wouldn't be as cool and new!


There's a CPU hit, and there's being unusable vs. the competition in the same scenario. There's also the latency hit, which can be as bad, or worse, than a CPU hit. As someone who's designed the UX of several desktop and mobile software products, there's a delicate balance of walking the line of pushing ahead and being unique vs. your competitors while still being usable.

I find sonible's latest products hard to use because of the system impact. I have smart:compressor and enjoy using it, yet almost never do because of the impact it has on the system. It's great for transparent ducking. So far, the limiter is similar in that regard. It could simply be that these tools aren't intended for use in the way I use them... but, then, they should be more specific if they're so, uh, limited, because I can use ProL2 or ProC2 just fine in the use cases.

My system is decent by today's standards, though not cutting edge. Simply an i9 9900K running all cores at 5ghz with 64GB RAM and Windows10 (for now) and a USB audio interface. I spend almost all of my time in production mode as opposed to mixing or mastering mode, which means, for me, 96khz with a small buffer to get as low of latency as possible. As I improve at mixing, I'm using the gain control in ProL2 less and less, and now typically am only pushing +3db to +4db onto it.


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## doctoremmet (Dec 16, 2021)




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## Nimrod7 (Dec 16, 2021)

I love the Mixing with Mike series.


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## b_elliott (Dec 16, 2021)

doctoremmet said:


>



Smart Limiter gets a thumbs up from Mix with Mike. 

I could not hear any of the differences from listening to the Youtube video. I am curious if it is 1) lack of my ear savvy, or 2) it's YouTube so you lose most of the rich harmonic info and get only a bland mono signal, or 3) its my equipment (I switched over from cheap laptop system to Avid Mbox and Grado reference headphones) = still not hearing his tweaks.

So I am not sure at this end.

It was interesting to see the visual confirmations Mike got when he clicked "Quality Check." I am curious to demo it now to see if I instead get "are you kidding " hints. Worth a screen grab and posting if so!


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 16, 2021)

b_elliott said:


> Smart Limiter gets a thumbs up from Mix with Mike.
> 
> I could not hear any of the differences from listening to the Youtube video. I am curious if it is 1) lack of my ear savvy, or 2) it's YouTube so you lose most of the rich harmonic info and get only a bland mono signal, or 3) its my equipment (I switched over from cheap laptop system to Avid Mbox and Grado reference headphones) = still not hearing his tweaks.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you get to know YouTube like you can get to know your own speakers/headphones/studio and learn to judge mixes that way; but I haven't learned to do that! Fortunately, these plugins can be trialed!


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## SupremeFist (Dec 16, 2021)

Joël Dollié said:


> I personally never understood multiband limiters. They just mess with the mix too much. I really don't like them.
> 
> They ruin any kind of glue compression you might have too cause now the kicks don't really help the music breathe, even with a couple db they just get weaker so the music loses power.


I believe smart:limit is single-band...


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## SupremeFist (Dec 16, 2021)

vitocorleone123 said:


> There's a CPU hit, and there's being unusable vs. the competition in the same scenario. There's also the latency hit, which can be as bad, or worse, than a CPU hit. As someone who's designed the UX of several desktop and mobile software products, there's a delicate balance of walking the line of pushing ahead and being unique vs. your competitors while still being usable.
> 
> I find sonible's latest products hard to use because of the system impact. I have smart:compressor and enjoy using it, yet almost never do because of the impact it has on the system. It's great for transparent ducking. So far, the limiter is similar in that regard. It could simply be that these tools aren't intended for use in the way I use them... but, then, they should be more specific if they're so, uh, limited, because I can use ProL2 or ProC2 just fine in the use cases.
> 
> My system is decent by today's standards, though not cutting edge. Simply an i9 9900K running all cores at 5ghz with 64GB RAM and Windows10 (for now) and a USB audio interface. I spend almost all of my time in production mode as opposed to mixing or mastering mode, which means, for me, 96khz with a small buffer to get as low of latency as possible. As I improve at mixing, I'm using the gain control in ProL2 less and less, and now typically am only pushing +3db to +4db onto it.


I mean, I would say that if you want to work that (quite unusual) way then it's your fault for not having a more powerful CPU, rather than the plugin's fault, but horses for courses.


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## Pier (Dec 16, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I believe smart:limit is single-band...


As far as what you can control yeah, but I'd be surprised if it didn't have some sort of multiband or harmonic processing.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 16, 2021)

Pier said:


> As far as what you can control yeah, but I'd be surprised if it didn't have some sort of multiband or harmonic processing.


They said on GS that they have "multi-stage" processing going on, which is intriguing. (Also I'd like to know exactly what the balance knob is doing as it's kind of embarrassing how much 20% of it improves my mixes. )


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## b_elliott (Dec 16, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> They said on GS that they have "multi-stage" processing going on, which is intriguing. (Also I'd like to know exactly what the balance knob is doing as it's kind of embarrassing how much 20% of it improves my mixes. )


From MixWithMike's video you likely heard him mention "dial back Balance as it was pushing too much energy in the upper mids..." 

When I get the 1-month demo, I plan to throw an analyser on a track to see what exactly each dial does (add harmonics? boost? etc.) If someone has already done so, I would be curious to know as well. 

It would be interesting if someone was able to look in the source code to see what parameters & the variables used to set up the dials (style, balance, etc.) Likely inaccessible.


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## SupremeFist (Dec 16, 2021)

b_elliott said:


> From MixWithMike's video you likely heard him mention "dial back Balance as it was pushing too much energy in the upper mids..."



Haven't watched it yet but that makes sense as I am generally upper-mids-shy!


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## vitocorleone123 (Dec 16, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I mean, I would say that if you want to work that (quite unusual) way then it's your fault for not having a more powerful CPU, rather than the plugin's fault, but horses for courses.


The vast majority of plugins work fine. The few, like smart:limit, that don't, I avoid. It's on the developers/companies and the choices made.

If it was a CPU issue, then that'd be obvious, because it'd be a significant % of plugins would do the same thing. They don't. Since sonible's "smart" plugins are in the minority when it comes to their system and latency impact (with no apparent way to control these impacts through settings), I'm confident my more-than-competent CPU and system, just turned 3 years old, are OK for awhile yet.

It's not a big deal. It's just a limiter plugin, and there's lots of others out there, like the one I already have. If it works for you (or others) then go for it!


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## Tralen (Dec 16, 2021)

SupremeFist said:


> I mean I take it as given, very crudely, that advances in signal processing will require greater processing power, so I'm always a bit baffled by those who complain about the CPU hit of some cool new thing. If it didn't stress the CPU as much it wouldn't be as cool and new!


That presupposes that plugins are getting heavier, as they improve, when they really are not. Many plugins become lighter with updates, and there are many plugins today that are much more efficient than old traditional plugins.


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## Pier (Dec 16, 2021)

Tralen said:


> That presupposes that plugins are getting heavier, as they improve, when they really are not. Many plugins become lighter with updates, and there are many plugins today that are much more efficient than old traditional plugins.


I definitely agree with you that plugins tend to become more optimized as developers identify bottlenecks, bugs, and so on.

But I think what @SupremeFist meant, is that more features will inevitably mean more code is needed so more CPU will end up being used. Smart:limiter might be "just" a limiter, but to achieve its results it does a lot of things other than processing dynamics.


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## Bee_Abney (Dec 16, 2021)

Pier said:


> I definitely agree with you that plugins tend to become more optimized as developers identify bottlenecks, bugs, and so on.
> 
> But I think what @SupremeFist meant, is that more features will inevitably mean more code is needed so more CPU will end up being used. Smart:limiter might be "just" a limiter, but to achieve its results it does a lot of things other than processing dynamics.


True. If you want to be an early adopter of multi-process software, you have to get used to spending big on your hardware. If you don't want to do that, you can spend even more on SSDs and string libraries. 

What a choice!


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## Tralen (Dec 16, 2021)

Pier said:


> I definitely agree with you that plugins tend to become more optimized as developers identify bottlenecks, bugs, and so on.
> 
> But I think what @SupremeFist meant, is that more features will inevitably mean more code is needed so more CPU will end up being used. Smart:limiter might be "just" a limiter, but to achieve its results it does a lot of things other than processing dynamics.


Oh yes, I agree with that.

In any case, there is still a concern for developing lightweight plugins, even with a larger feature set. If Sonible is able to improve the footprint of this limiter, I can see it being very useful for live performances.


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## muziksculp (Dec 23, 2021)




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## zwhita (Jan 17, 2022)

Been using it for about a week and the CPU hit is just too high for individual tracks for me in Reaper on a 6th gen i5. Each instance continually uses 3% CPU with no audio being processed. It even uses *MORE CPU* when the track effect window is not visible versus when smart:limit is on screen! A waste of $65, until they can fix this nonsense.


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## Zanshin (Jan 17, 2022)

zwhita said:


> Been using it for about a week and the CPU hit is just too high for individual tracks for me in Reaper on a 6th gen i5. Each instance continually uses 3% CPU with no audio being processed. It even uses *MORE CPU* when the track effect window is not visible versus when smart:limit is on screen! A waste of $65, until they can fix this nonsense.


I just demoed it, I didn’t buy it, but my experience was largely the same. Also for the master, I preferred Elevate over it by a whole bunch.


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## zwhita (Jan 17, 2022)

I just noticed this support faq page stating sonible's smart engine recommends nothing less than 1024 for the DAW buffer size. Definitely try before you buy!


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 17, 2022)

zwhita said:


> I just noticed this support faq page stating sonible's smart engine recommends nothing less than 1024 for the DAW buffer size. Definitely try before you buy!


Not surprising. The latency for the SmartEQ is insane, I rarely use it anymore.


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## jcrosby (Jan 17, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not surprising. The latency for the SmartEQ is insane, I rarely use it anymore.


You're not referring to v3 are you? Not only odes it run zero latency, it's really light on CPU, even at 128 and 256.


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## Jeremy Spencer (Jan 17, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> You're not referring to v3 are you? Not only odes it run zero latency, it's really light on CPU, even at 128 and 256.


Not sure, I’m using the first version.


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## jcrosby (Jan 17, 2022)

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Not sure, I’m using the first version.


Ah ok. Smart EQ3 has a lot of improvements and runs at zero latency by default. It might be worth demoing if the latency is one of the main things you don't like about version 1...


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