# I need some bigger size custom fonts but have no ideas about Photoshop.



## Edward Stevan (Aug 9, 2019)

i have no idea about Photoshop and how to add the tool that exports the needed
fonts to it so i need some help or a step by step video tutorial to that.


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## P.N. (Aug 10, 2019)

Until someone creates a proper fully automated tool, this process will be extremelly time consuming, or at least tedious, no matter the skill level.

Never-the-less, i can make these on my spare time, for a small fee of course.
Let me know if you're interested.

PS: Only compatible with Kontakt 6.


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## mistermister (Aug 12, 2019)

Fonts can be a bit of a legal mine-field.


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## EvilDragon (Aug 12, 2019)

Picture fonts are done exactly this way in order to avoid that legal mine field.


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## P.N. (Aug 12, 2019)

Hey, thanks for the warning. :D

The goal here was helping out at a fractional cost, not creating a font generating service.

Also, considering how much time has passed since K6 arrived, i was hoping this would get someone's attention into developing a quick export tool that would benefit us all.


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## mistermister (Aug 12, 2019)

EvilDragon said:


> Picture fonts are done exactly this way in order to avoid that legal mine field.


The issue is more someone creating these for clients/customers as a service. That is a commercial venture and the entity has to license the original fonts accordingly.


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## P.N. (Aug 12, 2019)

You're assuming a lot of things here, but i appreciate the concern.
Again, let me reiterate that this is a limited service, some conditions will apply, and it's just a temporary thing until a tool arrives.

It's been what, almost a year? A proper tool should arrive any day now, or at least it should.


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## mistermister (Aug 12, 2019)

P.N. said:


> You're assuming a lot of things here


My assumption was based on your post offering to convert fonts for a fee. That's commercial use.

I used to be a typographer in my graphic design days and had quite a few companies and software types use my fonts without a license so obviously it's a bit of a personal issue.


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## P.N. (Aug 12, 2019)

mistermister said:


> My assumption was based on your post offering to convert fonts for a fee. That's commercial use.


Yes, commercial use. As a professional designer i'm actually allowed to do that.

Listen, i do understand if you have personal feeling towards this, and your initial post was perfectly fine, but this, in a certain sense, could be compared to a scripting job.

Imagine me saying "I'll do a scripting job for Kontakt!". And someone saying... "You better own Kontakt legally...".

I mean, we should begin with the premise that we're all playing by the rules, right? 

Cheers.


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## mistermister (Aug 12, 2019)

P.N. said:


> Imagine me saying "I'll do a scripting job for Kontakt!". And someone saying... "You better own Kontakt legally...".



The fact that you compare it to a scripting job to me rings alarm bells. A Kontakt scripting job requires you own Kontakt. You likely wouldn't offer that if you didn't have Kontakt, and it's all you require as a commercial entity to test your script.

A better comparison is sample libraries. You've offering the equivalent of 'I can make your favorite string library sound really good. Send it to me and I'll send you back a realistic string performance audio file for a fee'.

They firstly can't send you the library/font without likely breaking their license terms and secondly require you to purchase a license yourself to use it in a commercial manner.

I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that people are going to ask you to render a font you likely don't already own the license to and would legally have to purchase yourself, hence my comment that it's a legal mine-field, rather than impossible.


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## P.N. (Aug 12, 2019)

mistermister said:


> The fact that you compare it to a scripting job to me rings alarm bells.



What's the alarm here? What's the issue? :D

I think the scripting analogy is more adequate since it specifies that we both need to own a specific piece of software - and it could only be used for that specific purpose.

The sample library analogy means that the end result could be used for many purposes, including creating another sample library - and that's indeed a delicate subject.

The bitmap resulting from this would only be useful in Kontakt. It's not something that could be used to create yet another derivative work, but again, this is unecessarily moving the goal posts.

In both cases, i'm fully compliant with the copyrights law.

What should be assumed in a situation like this, as i stated above is that some limitations will apply.
About users not owning a font, that's beyond my legal responsability. (and i don't think it will legally apply in this situation, but again, this is not my responsability.)

You could argue that this example is a bit different and doesn't apply, but when designing a logo, i do not confirm that the client owns distribution rights - i only make sure i own the font and am legally eligible to create graphical content based on it (either raster or vector) and i don't redistribute the font files themselves.

This is also true for scripting. I will not, based on professional cortesy, enquiry my clients on whether they legally own Kontakt or not. I assume they do.

Lastly, let's not forget one thing. A bitmap font is rasterized content and follows different legal standards.

Side note: Don't worry too much about lots of people contacting me for this. This is a quite niche thing, and i got no offers so far. Most folks are (like me) waiting for a proper tool which will make all our lives easier.

Cheers.


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## mistermister (Aug 12, 2019)

P.N. said:


> What's the alarm here? What's the issue? :D


The alarm is because you're making an invalid comparison because it's the reverse to this. The onus isn't on the person asking for the font to have the license. The onus is on you, yourself having purchased a license to the same font to use it commercially.

Each font is the equivalent of a piece of software and has it's own license. Let's use an example where I have this great font "Ants Valley" that I paid for, and I say 'Hey P.N., can you turn this into a bitmap font for me - I'll pay the small fee'.

I can't legally send you "Ants Valley". That would be distributing something to you that you don't have a license for. To provide me with that Kontakt bitmap version of "Ants Valley", you would personally have to go and purchase a license (assuming it allows this kind of use) as you're the one using the font in a commercial context in this scenario. This is why a sample library analogy is much more accurate. If someone wants you to make them a great 'LASS string melody audio clip', you legally have to own LASS to do it - it's not down to the person asking to own it.

You would have a similar situation when being asked to design a poster. Lets say your client goes 'I really want the venue name in "Ants Valley"'. You would be the one that has to purchase "Ants Valley" to deliver that poster (the client may also, depending on "Ants Valley" license).

Again, not saying that you wouldn't do this (though seems like it would be an expensive free-time favor, buying fonts for other people's benefit). Just saying that it's this kind of stuff that is massively overlooked when it comes to typefaces and makes this kind of thing a bit of a mine-field.


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## P.N. (Aug 12, 2019)

Listen, Mister, i'm not sure how much clearer i can make this, but before this turns into something ugly (and no one wants that), let's try this again.

From my previous posts:



P.N. said:


> Yes, commercial use. As a professional designer i'm actually allowed to do that.





P.N. said:


> In both cases, i'm fully compliant with the copyrights law.





mistermister said:


> The alarm is because you're making an invalid comparison because it's the reverse to this. The onus isn't on the person asking for the font to have the license. The onus is on you, yourself having purchased a license to the same font to use it commercially.



You should, as a matter of professional courtesy, assume i'm fully compliant with a service i provide, specially after i made it as clear as possible and was only considering the client side of the matter.
If you really want to make this about me, alright.

I certainly wouldn't risk my reputation on this forum. I would specially not risk my reputation as a designer.



mistermister said:


> Again, not saying that you wouldn't do this


Sure seems like it. Your initial assumption/warning brought us here.



mistermister said:


> (though seems like it would be an expensive free-time favor, buying fonts for other people's benefit)


I never said "favor". I said a service i'd provide on my spare time for a small fee.

If you're now trying again to assume on what's "expensive" or what's worth it, first consider that a scripting job is normally somewhere in the range of hundreds or thousands of dollares.

Buyng a 10-50 dollar single font is actually not a big investment considering the whole picture.

Still, i don't see how your opinion of an investment has anything to do with the matter at hand.

For me, it would mean i'd be able to add more fonts to my collection, with the cost of those being supported by the person resquesting the service. (or the favour, as you put it).

If i already owned the font the cost could be lower.
Once again, some conditions would apply.



mistermister said:


> Just saying that it's this kind of stuff that is massively overlooked when it comes to typefaces.


I can completely understand your personal issue with this. I really do and i also got bad experiences, not with fonts but with other types of media.

This is not a case of infringing copyrights. This is more a case of, (again another analogy), buying a guitar and making awful music with it. The person who sold me the guitar may not be happy about it, but they knew what it entitled.

Same with a font. I bought the font, i got the rights, i can create graphical content based on it.
(yes, again, i actually know my rights).
No respectable font developer would even dare contacting me over a bitmap, not when they got my name on their client list and they're aware of the implications of our mutual agreement contract.

And there's absolutely no one being harmed here. The font developer got their money.

I feel like you may have misjudged the situation and it's not too late to back down.


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## mistermister (Aug 12, 2019)

Then that's great - sounds like you know what you're doing.

My point is that typefaces are a mine-field, even with bitmap fonts, and many less-experienced designers don't know what they're doing. Apologies if you took that personally - my comment was a wide-cast net based on typical experience.


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## P.N. (Aug 12, 2019)

It's all good. 

Your posts actually made me update my legal knowledge on this matter, and i did find out new info that perhaps you'll also enjoy as a designer.

From myfonts end user agreement:

"
3. Third parties

You may provide the font to a graphic designer, printer or other service bureau that is working on your behalf only if they agree to use the font exclusively for your work, agree to the terms of this license, and retain no copies of the font on completion of the work."

This is something i didn't know existed. (i don't think it did back in my day or it was a "secret"...).

Ah, and because we spoke of the devil, i heard that there may be a real bitmap font generator tool arriving soon (but i'll let the author come forward and announcing it himself), so my bitmap font services are over before they even began. :D

So... yes. We could have waited a few more days and avoided talking about fonts... 

Cheers.


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## mistermister (Aug 12, 2019)

On the bright side, we did learn something new. I don't use myfonts, but wasn't aware that those kinds of licenses existed either - I'm going to have to go have a read now and see which other font suppliers allow this kind of thing.

Interesting about a bitmap font generator tool - long overdue!


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## P.N. (Aug 12, 2019)

Here's the link:
https://www.myfonts.com/viewlicense.php?lid=685


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## synergy543 (Aug 12, 2019)

The level of paranoia and accusations in this thread reminds me of why I no longer like to post in forums.


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## P.N. (Aug 12, 2019)

synergy543 said:


> The level of paranoia and accusations in this thread reminds me of why I no longer like to post in forums.


I'm sorry you keep forcing yourself to do things you don't like. That sucks.
Besides, you're a bit late! It's all over now and there's nothing to see here, folks! :D


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## Edward Stevan (Aug 12, 2019)

i attached some bigger fonts maybe useful for some body


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## EvilDragon (Aug 13, 2019)

And... here's the online tool for converting TTF/OTF to Kontakt picture fonts!









The Blake Robinson Synthetic Orchestra


Synthetic Orchestra. Now up to 734 pieces of music. That's 26 hours, 11 minutes of listening!




www.syntheticorchestra.com


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## geronimo (Aug 14, 2019)

Magic: we can even change color and size.
The dream _
:emoji_drum: Sorry, it's the emotion ... :emoji_juggling:


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## Denkii (Aug 14, 2019)

Edit: this post got deleted due to a lack of finesse it originally showed. My bad.


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## EvilDragon (Aug 14, 2019)

That was uncalled for. I mean... really?


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