# We <don't> have thumbs down!



## JEPA (Aug 11, 2019)

We have thumbs down!


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## JEPA (Aug 11, 2019)

hey guys! stop disliking me, all my "reaction score" and my forum premium "points" gonna be affected... all my prizes.. oh my goodness 

but joking aside, this is a quite new interesting inclusion/evolution in the history of the VI-Control forum! just was thinking about and was wondering what would be the consequences when developers get disliked and some products get thumbs down...


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## artomatic (Aug 11, 2019)

I "like" this.


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## Jdiggity1 (Aug 11, 2019)

<-------


artomatic said:


> I "like" this.



I'm not sure if I can trust you anymore


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## KarlHeinz (Aug 11, 2019)

Some years ago I would have just laughed about it.....today ?.....sadly this has become so real and omnipresent....vi is still a mostly nice and neat place, but if you look at kvr for example (which has been the same years ago), so I must admit it feels harder to just laugh about this.....and...do we really NEED this in here ? Sorry if I seem humourless but in this time where dislike is not far away from hate so often....


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## MartinH. (Aug 11, 2019)

As far as I can tell the dislike doesn't affect reaction score at all, and a like increases it by 1. So effectively the dislike does nothing numerically to the stats.

I have some doubts that this is a good feature to have. 

The same goes for the like button as well. I feel like it always acts as a slight amplifier of the already dominating opinions, boosting the echo-chamber effect that such communities inevitably have already. I don't think that's a good thing.


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## tack (Aug 11, 2019)

I dislike dislike buttons. Honestly, if you don't like something then either move along, or reply in actual written words explaining your disagreement, so one or both parties can evolve their views or practices.

Anonymous drive-by downvoting on Reddit or thumbsdowns on Youtube really get me going.

I'm always reminded of something Mike Verta said on this topic, where this type of practice is like saying "fuck you and your free content!"


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## ghostnote (Aug 11, 2019)

There's already enough silent hatred and bs rivalry on these forums which can easily get triggered (yeah I don't like this word either) and cause havoc. If you don't like somebodies opinion, try to discuss in a civil manner with an open mind. Maybe there's even a way you can learn something new. And if you don't like something because you just feel like it, then mind your own business and move along. There's no need for a thumbs down button.


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## patrick76 (Aug 11, 2019)

Some good points made here that I hadn't previously considered. I'm in agreement that the "dislike" buttons probably won't add anything of value to this site and in fact, will likely create anger, hostility, etc. VIC has done a fine job of avoiding that type of atmosphere to the degree it is possible on a web forum up to this point. If you are looking for anger and hostility, just head over to the politics section here as I have from time to time. Lots of the usual internet stuff there. But it would be nice to keep that stuff out of the general forum. 

I mean I worry what will be next for VIC after the addition of the "dislike" buttons.... are the Russian bots soon to follow?


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## Jdiggity1 (Aug 11, 2019)

There's definitely downsides to all options. The 'dislike' reaction was added yesterday (inspired by *Random Guy*'s postings, which have subsequently been moved to Drama Zone).
It is just an experiment for now, with the sole purpose of improving the community, and combatting thread de-railings and trolling. It can easily be switched off.

Not advocating either way on this, but there are a few arguments *for *it, one of which is that if somebody can see that their post is getting disliked and is therefore not appreciated, maybe... _just maybe_.... they'll think twice before posting the same thing again. And again. And derailing a thread. Likewise, there's a lot of argumentative folks on these boards lately that will state their opposition to something several times, again, often derailing a thread and causing a fuss.
Thirdly, we get a lot of members reporting posts simply because they disagree with them, treating the 'report' feature like a dislike function. Well, now they don't need to.

I can of course think of how a system like this _can_ be abused, but I have enough faith in the community that it won't be. But even if it does, we can see who is doing it, as likes and dislikes are not anonymous. So I don't expect dislikes to be thrown around willy-nilly. You gotta own it.

I do agree with a lot of the sentiments being shared here about the presence of "hate" etc, which is why we got rid of the angry face reaction that came default with the forum software, hoping that the "thumbs down" would be seen more of a "disagreement emoji" as opposed to a hateful one. If someone's "hate" can be contained in a single emoji instead of a series of posts and rants, would that be better or worse?

Most of us would agree that a civil discussion is the best course of action, but we all know by now that that's simply not how everyone conducts themselves. And if they find an outlet in a dislike button, then maybe they won't feel the need to cause an argument and send a thread way off course.

Again, I'm not advocating for it, just presenting one side in order to inspire discussion.

I appreciate everyone's feedback, so feel free to keep it comin. We'll see how it goes!


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## ghostnote (Aug 11, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> It is just an experiment for now, with the sole purpose of improving the community, and combatting thread de-railings and trolling.



This has nothing to do with improving the community, rather the opposite. People should know how to react to a troll, if not, they have to learn. A dislike button is like calling mom without any reaction.



Jdiggity1 said:


> One of which is that if somebody can see that their post is getting disliked and is therefore not appreciated, maybe... _just maybe_.... they'll think twice before posting the same thing again.



Why? Ignoring it isn't enough anymore?



Jdiggity1 said:


> Secondly, we get a lot of members reporting various posts, as if it's a dislike function. Well, now they don't need to.


Well if somebody dislikes a post and reports it and there's nothing wrong with it, then ignore it. This all seems just like an excuse to make your life as a moderator easier.


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## ghostnote (Aug 11, 2019)

I have to admit that the last sounded a bit harsh.

Nevertheless, I have the concern that people will use it deliberately and without trying to discuss why they don't like a post. Relevant feedback and discussion is probably the main reason why we all visit V.I.


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## ManicMiner (Aug 11, 2019)

As long as it doesn't get as toxic as the Stack Overflow forum!
Its probably nicer to leave a reply and say why you don't agree with something, and in a way that you would do it face to face.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 11, 2019)

tack said:


> I dislike dislike buttons. Honestly, if you don't like something then either move along, or reply in actual written words explaining your disagreement, so one or both parties can evolve their views or practices.
> 
> Anonymous drive-by downvoting on Reddit or thumbsdowns on Youtube really get me going.
> 
> I'm always reminded of something Mike Verta said on this topic, where this type of practice is like saying "fuck you and your free content!"


I know YouTube gives you more of stuff you like. So usually I only dislike stuff I really don't want to see more of in my recommendations. And lately it's been videos with artificial voices. I'd rather listen to someone with an accent and personality than a mechanical voice reading a script. 

And maybe now I've written this, I will stop seeing those videos. I swear they are listening to me based on the auto fill.


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## CT (Aug 11, 2019)

I bet none of you have the guts to dislike this post.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 11, 2019)

miket said:


> I bet none of you have the guts to dislike this post.


I dislike that you think I dont have guts. They are always letting me know they are there. Sigh.


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## NoamL (Aug 11, 2019)

Simple proposal: just dislike this post if you dislike dislikes!


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## JEPA (Aug 11, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> It's easy to think of how a system like this _can_ be abused, but I have enough faith in the community that it won't be.


see and quote my OP post reactions...


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## Will Blackburn (Aug 11, 2019)

Agree with Karl. Totally unnecessary. It only encourages trolling and will ultimately cause bad blood between members.


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## JEPA (Aug 11, 2019)

JEPA said:


> hey guys! stop disliking me, all my "reaction score" and my forum premium "points" gonna be affected... all my prizes.. oh my goodness
> 
> but joking aside, this is a quite new interesting inclusion/evolution in the history of the VI-Control forum! just was thinking about and was wondering what would be the consequences when developers get disliked and some products get thumbs down...


additionally I was thinking about psychological consequences when somebody or more than a couple of people start disliking your composition in "member's compositions"...


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## Geoff Grace (Aug 11, 2019)

I accept that I don't get to make the rules around here, and I really appreciate the efforts of all who run this place.

Having said that, if I had a vote, it would be to get rid of the dislike button.

Best,

Geoff


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## patrick76 (Aug 11, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> I dislike that you think I dont have guts. They are always letting me know they are there. Sigh.


Ha!


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## patrick76 (Aug 11, 2019)

How about a "like all" button? I think I could use it on this thread as I'm far too lazy to individually acknowledge all these posts


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## Mike Greene (Aug 11, 2019)

FWIW, my vote is that we not have a dislike button.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 11, 2019)

JEPA said:


> additionally I was thinking about psychological consequences when somebody or more than a couple of people start disliking your composition in "member's compositions"...


Well, I'm going to hope it's only used on obnoxious posts. If you're going to dislike a composition, you should at least comment why. And then why bother to dislike it when you go to the trouble to comment. 

Hopefully it is only when discussions get a little too argumentative and maybe off-topic. A bunch of dislikes might be better than more argumentative posts. And maybe a little "hey that comment was uncalled for"?


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## JEPA (Aug 11, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> Well, I'm going to hope it's only used on obnoxious posts. If you're going to dislike a composition, you should at least comment why. And then why bother to dislike it when you go to the trouble to comment.
> 
> Hopefully it is only when discussions get a little too argumentative and maybe off-topic. A bunch of dislikes might be better than more argumentative posts. And maybe a little "hey that comment was uncalled for"?


I mean, that red color makes it look like if you were doing something wrong, maybe some green color...


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## Vik (Aug 11, 2019)

dzilizzi said:


> If you're going to dislike a composition, you should at least comment why. And then why bother to dislike it when you go to the trouble to comment.


Exactly. Plus, even I happen to not like a piece or post someone has shared, I’d never use Dislike anyway. I’d either ignore it or contribute with something less primitive than just state that I don’t like it. And if I do, I wouldn’t need to click on Dislike. I dislike Dislike.


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## chillbot (Aug 11, 2019)

Everyone dislikes dislikes. Knowing jdiggity and mike greene, I feel 100% certain they are going to go away. So... just going to get them in while I still can!!


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## chillbot (Aug 11, 2019)

Oh the hurt! OK I vote to get rid of them. Though I wish there could be something like a "sarcastic thumbs down" or "thumbs down in jest".


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## JEPA (Aug 11, 2019)

hehe...


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## Ben H (Aug 11, 2019)

YOU get a dislike, and YOU get a dislike, and YOU get a dislike... EVERYONE gets a dislike


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## Jdiggity1 (Aug 11, 2019)

ghostnote said:


> Well if somebody dislikes a post and reports it and there's nothing wrong with it, then ignore it. This all seems just like an excuse to make your life as a moderator easier.


I can understand that assumption, but it's actually the opposite. It is much easier to ignore reports. In fact, I don't think it gets any easier than that. Surely putting in the time to trial something in hopes of achieving betterment does not look like the 'easy way out'?

To put it as simply as I can.... When I see a report, I see it as somebody is unhappy. If I can do something that results in less unhappy people, I wanna try.

While there is a counter for all of the concerns stated so far, they are of course valid, even if 100% are based on hypotheticals and fabricated scenarios. Which is exactly why this was only ever meant as a trial, temporary inclusion, to allow the gathering of data and to not need to rely on hypotheticals. And if it did serve as a honeypot for trolls, i could certainly see how that could be used for good.



dzilizzi said:


> Hopefully it is only when discussions get a little too argumentative and maybe off-topic. A bunch of dislikes might be better than more argumentative posts. And maybe a little "hey that comment was uncalled for"?



This was the core reason behind it. I mean really... who's going to add big red thumbs down with their name attached to it on a member's composition? Sounds like a good way to be shown the door.

Anyway, based on the response here so far, and word from the big man himself, i'm happy to turn it off.


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## Diablo IV (Aug 11, 2019)

Spitfire make a new Hans Zimmer Piano thread please, I am ready... muahahahaha


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## CT (Aug 11, 2019)

Diablo3 said:


> Spitfire make a new Hans Zimmer Piano thread please, I am ready... muahahahaha




:dodgy:


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## chillbot (Aug 11, 2019)

So now what are we to do.


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## JEPA (Aug 11, 2019)

I was starting to like it... knowing mates intimately..


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## dzilizzi (Aug 11, 2019)

chillbot said:


> So now what are we to do.


First they take away our No Chillbot response and now our dislike.... life will just not be the same.


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## chillbot (Aug 11, 2019)

I don't even have any way to react to that post anymore.


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## kgdrum (Aug 11, 2019)

Well I think the obvious question that hasn't been addressed is how come we don't have a desk emoji?


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## Ben H (Aug 11, 2019)

Aww 

Who managed to have the most disliked post, in the short amount of time it was up?
... just out of noseyness


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## Jdiggity1 (Aug 11, 2019)

Ben H said:


> Aww
> 
> Who managed to have the post with the most dislikes, in the short amount of time it was up?
> ... just out of noseyness


The OP's post... about the addition of a dislike button. Guess it worked afterall.


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## dzilizzi (Aug 11, 2019)

We do need a sarcastic smiley though. Just in the emojis. Though I'm not sure what that looks like. It might help with the joke comments that aren't translating well. 

Hmm. For some reason I can actually use the emojis on my phone anymore. I think I used to be able to use them.


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## Mike Greene (Aug 12, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


> I can understand that assumption, but it's actually the opposite. It is much easier to ignore reports. In fact, I don't think it gets any easier than that. Surely putting in the time to trial something in hopes of achieving betterment does not look like the 'easy way out'?
> 
> To put it as simply as I can.... When I see a report, I see it as somebody is unhappy. If I can do something that results in less unhappy people, I wanna try.
> 
> While there is a counter for all of the concerns stated so far, they are of course valid, even if 100% are based on hypotheticals and fabricated scenarios. Which is exactly why this was only ever meant as a trial, temporary inclusion, to allow the gathering of data and to not need to rely on hypotheticals. And if it did serve as a honeypot for trolls, i could certainly see how that could be used for good.


It was a worthy experiment and I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea. Comments on both sides have been valid. My main opposition to it, though, is more a case of _"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."_ We don't get that many debates that turn ugly here, at least not that many by internet standards, so I'm reluctant to throw more variables into the mix.



Jdiggity1 said:


> I mean really... who's going to add big red thumbs down with their name attached to it on a member's composition? Sounds like a good way to be shown the door.


Yep. But I'll bet some people would, and then we would have to deal with them. I'd have to write a tactful email (ironically, to a person with apparently no tact) to explain basic social etiquette. Or we'd have to make rules about _"No thumbs downs allowed in Members Composition"_ or some other remedies. Ugh. I'm getting nauseous just thinking about it. 

It might be worth revisiting later, mind you. Just not now.


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## chillbot (Aug 12, 2019)

Mike Greene said:


> It might be worth revisiting later, mind you. Just not now.


What we really need is a SUPER LIKE. And it has the power of like FIVE regular likes and each person is allowed to use it maybe once per day. For when you REALLY REALLY REALLY like a post you give it a SUPER LIKE what do you think. It would almost make a regular like be insulting, almost like a thumbs down. And then whoever gets the most SUPER LIKES not named NoamL gets to be mod for a day or some other cool prize ok thanks.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 12, 2019)

Only one SUPER LIKE per day?

That would mean I'd have to choose which one my posts to award it to, a real quandary.


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## Nick Batzdorf (Aug 12, 2019)

^ Batzdorf


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## EgM (Aug 12, 2019)

I actually like some forums that have a karma function in which likes augments your score and dislikes diminishes it. Makes it easier to trust someone's rant on a product


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## ghostnote (Aug 12, 2019)

chillbot said:


> What we really need is a SUPER LIKE.


Yeah! And why not just show the thread title and give the user the chance to swipe left or right.


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## JEPA (Aug 12, 2019)

imagine disliking "introduce yourself" posts...

"Hello, I come from X land, my name is Y and I want to meet this awesome community!!"...








baaam!


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## jamwerks (Aug 12, 2019)

A big thumbs down to no more thumbs down!


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## Zero&One (Aug 14, 2019)

Not sure I even got to use my thumb down allowance?
Feel robbed, like I missed a one day "super deal" in the DEALS, DEALS, DEALS! section

I'd even thumbed myself if I knew this was going to happen!


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## AllanH (Aug 18, 2019)

I had not even noticed the pop-up for the like-button and the variety of choices. I especially like the"haha" one, as that's much better than just "liking" a post. I often use like to express "I agree", so having more choices is certainly nice. 

I think it's good to keep VIC messaging positive, even if by design.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 18, 2019)

Wanna know the nice thing about me?

(Of course you do, who wouldn’t??)

I post for sport, for helpfulness, to get help, any number of reasons-none of which include a need for affirmation or punishment. I find the whole like/dislike thing puerile.

Then again, I’m well over one hundred years old, not on Facebook, Twitter, 4chan, 8chan, Reddit, no SnapChat, Pinterest, no interest.

Don’t be lazy! Like/dislike me with words, and keep your thumbs up your... er... where you have them now.


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## Ledwick (Aug 18, 2019)

EgM said:


> I actually like some forums that have a karma function in which likes augments your score and dislikes diminishes it. Makes it easier to trust someone's rant on a product


 That's a good idea, with one adjustment. No dislikes and no negative score. So people who's posts are liked have higher scores and will be "trusted" more or whatever, but then no one gets minus scores and no negativity.


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## AllanH (Aug 18, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Wanna know the nice thing about me?
> 
> (Of course you do, who wouldn’t??)
> 
> ...



I was going to give you Like for that thoughtful comment, but since I actually read it, I won't 

I tend to think of Likes as "thank you", but that's probably not common.


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## chillbot (Aug 18, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> I post for sport, for helpfulness, to get help, any number of reasons-none of which include a need for affirmation or punishment. I find the whole like/dislike thing puerile.


This sounds like the kinda thing someone would say who doesn't even have 2,000 likes.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 18, 2019)

Wait, where do I check??

Oh, never mind. Heh.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 18, 2019)

AllanH said:


> I was going to give you Like for that thoughtful comment, but since I actually read it, I won't
> 
> I tend to think of Likes as "thank you", but that's probably not common.


Whats wrong with “thank you for the thoughtful comment”?

Shorthand is so...short.


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## chillbot (Aug 18, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Oh, never mind. Heh


Thank you for the thoughtful comment.


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## Mike Greene (Aug 18, 2019)

FWIW, the original reason for the Like button was so people could express agreement without having to do those annoying “+1” posts.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 18, 2019)

Mike Greene said:


> FWIW, the original reason for the Like button was so people could express agreement without having to do those annoying “+1” posts.


Validation with one less keystroke. Winning!


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## dzilizzi (Aug 18, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> Wanna know the nice thing about me?
> 
> (Of course you do, who wouldn’t??)
> 
> ...


Usually my like means I agree with your posting or thanks for the info. Some of these threads get so long, I think adding a bunch of superfluous "I agree" or "thanks" doesn't make sense. I also like that we now have the option to laugh at a comment. There are a lot of funny members here.


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## NYC Composer (Aug 18, 2019)

And you’re one of them!


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## Zero&One (Aug 18, 2019)

Mike Greene said:


> FWIW, the original reason for the Like button was so people could express agreement without having to do those annoying “+1” posts.



+1


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## NYC Composer (Aug 18, 2019)

After my first “like” on the InterWebs was given to the deserving ChileanBot, I’m tempted to like James H’s imitation of me being an annoying troll, but moderation prevailed. 

I’m only in it for the fish.


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## Zero&One (Aug 18, 2019)

NYC Composer said:


> After my first “like” on the InterWebs was given to the deserving ChileanBot, I’m tempted to like James H’s imitation of me being an annoying troll, but moderation prevailed.
> 
> I’m only in it for the fish.



See... my post is the very reason we need the thumbs down. Or the other one I like is the :|


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## Jdiggity1 (Aug 18, 2019)

James H said:


> See... my post is the very reason we need the thumbs down. Or the other one I like is the :|


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## NYC Composer (Aug 19, 2019)

Jdiggity1 said:


>


🦄🌈


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## JEPA (Aug 19, 2019)

Mike Greene said:


> FWIW, the original reason for the Like button was so people could express agreement without having to do those annoying “+1” posts.


Oh, I've never thought about that, that way... so, it could be possible to write:
"-1" ... I have never seen...


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## chimuelo (Aug 19, 2019)

I’m from the school of “bad news is better than no news” thinking.
If somebody takes the time to “Dis” you it’s a form of engagement.

A good example is when gangs of boycotters single out enemies it often backfires on them giving the targets more opportunity than previously measured.

Chic-Filet I never heard of until the soft attack squads highlighted them, now you wait in line even in off hours.
It has nothing to do with your beliefs on Gay rights or other positions, it’s the fact that it’s another level of free advertisement.
We now have seen PR Firms developing fake boycott strategies, where they find something to pretend to be offended by so they can stir up chats.

I guess it depends n the level of intelligence you’re dealing with and knowing the needs of targeted groups.

And why can’t I like my posts myself?

I’m offended and call for an international boycott of VI because they’re anti self liking male-a-phobes or something or other.


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## JEPA (Aug 19, 2019)

-1... x1+1


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## chillbot (Feb 5, 2021)

Mike Greene said:


> FWIW, my vote is that we not have a dislike button.


#bringbackdislike
#somanythingstodislike


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## CT (Feb 5, 2021)

How about an eye roll?


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## kgdrum (Feb 5, 2021)

You are all so quaint how about 🤮


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## dzilizzi (Feb 5, 2021)

Mike T said:


> How about an eye roll?


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## Bluemount Score (Feb 5, 2021)

chillbot said:


> #bringbackdislike
> #somanythingstodislike


I want to dislike this post because I disagree with it, but I can't


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## chillbot (Feb 5, 2021)

Bluemount Score said:


> I want to dislike this post because I disagree with it, but I can't


@Mike Greene see this??


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## PaulieDC (Feb 5, 2021)

I've wanted YouTube to get rid of the thumbs down bit completely. What's the point? If you don't like something, move on. Years ago album and CD sales told the story silently, if it stunk it didn't sell (ok, there are exceptions there!). Downvotes always bring a bad atmosphere, no two ways about it. And the bigger issue is, nobody cares what you or I don't like and why we don't like it. Case in point: if I proclaim that I will leave this forum if downvotes show up, will anyone's day be ruined? Nope. Not even for 12ms of latency. Most will say "sayonara dude". Because nobody cares if you don't like something.

Oh boy. I just realized my post is actually a downvote for a downvote. I'm doomed.


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## chillbot (Jan 31, 2022)

Jdiggity1 said:


> I appreciate everyone's feedback, so feel free to keep it comin. We'll see how it goes!


I would like the dislike button to be back thanks.


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## chillbot (Jan 31, 2022)

Mike Greene said:


> It might be worth revisiting later, mind you. Just not now.


Can we revisit now.


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## NYC Composer (Jan 31, 2022)

If we get a dislike button, I’m going to take issue with every post I read for a week just to start some shit.


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