# Moving on from Pro Tools. What features of your DAW make scoring easier for you?



## jaminjamesp (May 5, 2017)

Pro Tools is great, I love it. I'll still mix in it, and use it for tracking and all non scoring projects in my studio. But after this last cue, I was about ready to explode. The Avid Video Engine doesn't play nicely in PT 12, that is the main reason. Other reasons mostly include work flow with midi, and a few little nit picky things that don't matter as much.

So far I've been looking at Logic and Cubase. Both look so odd to me, but I'm trying to get past it. I really like the no nonsense, down to business design of Pro Tools.

Efficiency is my main concern. There are many things when working with midi in PT that seem to take a few too many clicks, scrolls, menus, etc.

Coming from PT, keyboard shortcuts are huge for me. Sometimes it feels that PT shortcuts are a little too complicated. Some of the most common shortcuts I use are 3 finger claw maneuvers. After a decade, I'm getting tired of them.

I find Pro Tools getting bogged down easily. I'll have 10 or so Kontakt libraries playing, a video playing, a few plugins, and I'll be getting CPU errors. This has been an issue with the last several releases of PT. I feel like Apple and Avid don't play as nicely together as they used too. My computer is plenty powerful to run the sessions that I'm working with right now.

Just looking to hear from other DAW users about why you chose yours and what are some high points and low points of it.


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## KerrySmith (May 5, 2017)

I am in the same boat. I haven't been using the video engine in PT (having outsourced to Video Slave Pro), but it's VI handling and the pain of using it with VEP are killing me.

I've bought Logic and Cubase and I'm heavily leaning towards Cubase 9 now. It seems to make more sense and be on par with (or better than) Pro Tools on a number of key things to me. You have to learn the different terminology, otherwise finding things is a PITA, but. Check out the ClubCubase videos on YouTube, and a few of the tips by Todd K Edwards and you'll start seeing its potential pretty quickly. Bonus, they both use it on Macs.


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## imagegod (May 5, 2017)

Reaper has great CPU efficiency and the ability to customize nearly everything...which has a necessary cost: Namely the need to learn how to customize, and the need to determine all (or some large subset of 'all') the potential actions available for your customized preferences. Simply put the 'action list' is massive and that's good...but determining what's available and desirable takes time.

I like the MIDI editor, but YMMV. Other than that, I couldn't say, except that they have a free, fully functional trial download...enjoy!


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## Gerhard Westphalen (May 5, 2017)

Cubase's logical editor is one of the biggest things for me. I don't think any other DAW would let me do what I need to do in midi editing.

It also lets you set custom key commands for basically any feature and create macros which group together editing tasks and key commands into a single command.


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## The Darris (May 5, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Cubase's logical editor is one of the biggest things for me. I don't think any other DAW would let me do what I need to do in midi editing.
> 
> It also lets you set custom key commands for basically any feature and create macros which group together editing tasks and key commands into a single command.


This.


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## dhlkid (May 5, 2017)

Cubase


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## devonmyles (May 6, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Cubase's logical editor is one of the biggest things for me. I don't think any other DAW would let me do what I need to do in midi editing.
> 
> It also lets you set custom key commands for basically any feature and create macros which group together editing tasks and key commands into a single command.



And this, again.


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## MarcelM (May 6, 2017)

if you are doing alot of midi then there is no way around cubase. nothing there comes close to cubase in this.
if you want the fastest workflow studio one is the way to go, but its quite heavy on cpu and midi is not in the same league as cubase.
forget about reaper if you do alot of midi work.


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## sazema (May 6, 2017)

If you want to use sequencer especially for scoring then Reaper / Cubase / Logic is reasonable choice, even if you can do that in every sequencer. Each of them have some pros and cons of course.

Next, it really depends of how you would like to use libraries, I mean if you like articulation switching or not.
With Cubase you will get integrated feature just for that purpose, with Logic / Reaper you must fight with workarounds.
With Cubase you entering into dongle world, with Logic and Reaper not.
With Reaper you will get fast sequencer.
And finally with Logic you will get good system on your Mac, sequencer with very good sound library included and stock plugins, and GUI which is the same as Garage Band 

Those tales about MIDI and Cubase are almost EPIC. I don't know, I'm Reaper user and I'm using MIDI just normally without any trouble. What kind of MIDI function is available and EPIC in Cubase for every day usage?
Also, I have Cubase Elements licence and honestly can't find any superior midi function I have not already in Reaper.
It's just a matter of taste and usage.

Even this guy is kind of "turn to left", video is good


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## MarcelM (May 6, 2017)

sazema said:


> If you want to use sequencer especially for scoring then Reaper / Cubase / Logic is reasonable choice, even if you can do that in every sequencer. Each of them have some pros and cons of course.
> 
> Next, it really depends of how you would like to use libraries, I mean if you like articulation switching or not.
> With Cubase you will get integrated feature just for that purpose, with Logic / Reaper you must fight with workarounds.
> ...




those are not tales, they are facts.

reapers midi editing is horrible compared to cubase. just edit some CCs in the piano roll in both and see how far reaper is behind. can you draw bezier curves for example in reapers piano roll? no you cant. just one example of many. there could be many more examples, but i guess for the OP its good to have a look on youtube and compare himself.

and about your video. cubase can do this even ALOT better...


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## Paul T McGraw (May 6, 2017)

*Cubase*. Favorite features are: Expression Maps (which is a brilliant way to control articulation changes in a single track), Instrument tracks (which combine a midi track with effortless VST library routing) and the cornucopia of MIDI editing possibilities.


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## robgb (May 6, 2017)

imagegod said:


> Reaper has great CPU efficiency and the ability to customize nearly everything


This, a million times over. I had Reaper on my computer for years and after opening it and dismissing it a long time ago, I recently decided to take a closer look and was bowled over by its power. I've been working with DAWs for a couple of decades. I started with Cakewalk, graduated to Sonar, moved to Nuendo, switched to Mac and got Logic, then moved on to Studio One, where I thought I'd stay forever until I gave Reaper that closer look. Reaper is not only powerful, it's CPU efficient. It also has a strong community that has scripted new actions (including articulation switching) that take the DAW to a whole new level. I feel stupid for not jumping on board years ago.


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## robgb (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> reapers midi editing is horrible compared to cubase.


It's been awhile since I used Cubase/Nuendo, but I find Reaper's midi editing to be terrific. Not sure where you're getting "horrible" from.


Heroix said:


> forget about reaper if you do alot of midi work.


I do almost exclusively midi work and I LOVE Reaper.


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## James Marshall (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> ... can you draw bezier curves for example in reapers piano roll? no you cant.



I am really interested in this topic! Currently being former Cubase user, and teetering on crawling back 

I would like to point out that you can draw automation curves in the Reaper MIDI editor, just not out of the box. There's an "extension" for Reaper called Reapack. A repository of additional scripting where very clever Reaper users write additional functionality, and there's some great MIDI tooling in there. 

My workflow is heavily influenced by Cubase after using it for about 10 years, but since using Reaper I can't think of much functionality that I miss. If Reaper doesn't do something I want to it do, I can usually make it do that something via extensions and scripting etc. But I understand this might put off people who don't want to delve into that area.


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## MarcelM (May 6, 2017)

robgb said:


> It's been awhile since I used Cubase/Nuendo, but I find Reaper's midi editing to be terrific. Not sure where you're getting "horrible" from.
> 
> I do almost exclusively midi work and I LOVE Reaper.



i tried reaper three times myself and installed ALOT of scripts to improve the midi workflow. still it didnt work for me. even at the reaper forums the guys say midi editing is reapers weak point and you say it could compete with cubase? no it cant. cubase has the best midi editing functions out of all daws. its simply a fact.

have a look at the video. it can all do that out of the box without installing countless number of scripts and fiddling around with them.


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## AdamAlake (May 6, 2017)

Ableton. Being able to(n) create racks with macros for anything as well as the freedom of routing audio makes it extremely pleasant to use for creative sound design and parallel processing, as well crossfading between different articulations.


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## James Marshall (May 6, 2017)

AdamAlake said:


> Ableton. Being able to(n) ...



Nice!!!


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## JohnG (May 6, 2017)

Undoubtedly, Cubase is excellent, but some of the claims made that "only Cubase has this" are not wholly accurate. Digital Performer and Logic can do a lot -- they all copy features from each other, so what one couldn't do a year ago it may be able to do now. All three allow multiple ways to manipulate midi information. 

Those who prefer Reaper talk a lot about its flexibility. For midi at least, the big three (Cubase, Logic, and DP) all beat what I've seen in Pro Tools.

Like Cubase, DP also allows you to customise key commands. You can change them to mimic PT commands if you want, just to get started with the transition.

One of DP's best features is the ability to play in music in real time, then quickly adjust bar lines so that the music makes sense in notation. You can play at any tempo, as expressively as you like, and speedily drag the bar lines so it makes sense, without disrupting the original performance. This once was unique -- maybe imitated by others by now.

DP's notation export to Finale or Sibelius, if you are writing for orchestra, is absolutely awesome now -- hugely improved in the last few years.

Those are a couple of things I like about it. Not sure there are big problems. Audio editing is also excellent.


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## InLight-Tone (May 6, 2017)

All the above midi features for Cubase, the logical editor, Daniel James video, as well as the disabled track feature which allows you to build large templates on a single computer. To go with that the visibility features where you can show and hide tracks with the push of a button on a Lemur tablet.


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## sazema (May 6, 2017)

Ok Heroix, no offence but as you can see from my first post, I'm suggesting 3 sequencers and Cubase is in my list also, I'm not problems with software, it's just software 

There is one interesting thing about Cubase <-> Reaper, Cubase users (not all) just goes crazy if you told them about Reaper, and I don't know why is that ?!? I think is because of licence price 

I'm using Reaper and facing with troubles every day, but it's the case with any software. It's software and it's full of bugs like shit. I'm software developer so I know that very well.

Now, my second question is - how many time any of you made a parabola in CC lane? I'm speaking about orchestral scoring. How many time you made a triangle shape, or sine wave shape in midi CC. And that's why I said about f... epic MIDI editing in Cubase.
Even in Reaper, there is a plenty of functionality and options but honestly I don't know how they can be used in my workflow, so for me useless (again orch.scoring).
EPIC midi editing and Cubase is a story since 90's when Cubase was indeed first good MIDI software. Now is 2017.

When we are at parabolas and other mathematical stuff, ok, pull some scripts with ReaManager and you can do whatever you wish also, maybe not so fancy but still












Ohh, this one is useful indeed 






But now, there is a question, why I need this bubble-gum option for CC, just to show to my friends what I can do? 

For orchestral scoring you really need usual editing options and nothing more.

And again, if you are kind of person who like loading multiple articulation through 1 track and surf with art.switching, Cubase is best choice - because of integrated function.
If you don't need that sh... You can use whatever you like, by taste.

Ableton is not nice software for orchestral scoring, but it's good for everything else, especially electronics.


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## sazema (May 6, 2017)

JohnG said:


> Undoubtedly, Cubase is excellent, but some of the claims made that "only Cubase has this" are not wholly accurate. Digital Performer and Logic can do a lot -- they all copy features from each other, so what one couldn't do a year ago it may be able to do now. All three allow multiple ways to manipulate midi information.
> 
> Those who prefer Reaper talk a lot about its flexibility. For midi at least, the big three (Cubase, Logic, and DP) all beat what I've seen in Pro Tools.
> 
> ...



Indeed, DP is killer too. Shame windows version is not so stable as Mac.


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## sazema (May 6, 2017)

And now I'm going to draw few parabolas on flute


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## MarcelM (May 6, 2017)

sazema said:


> Ok Heroix, no offence but as you can see from my first post, I'm suggesting 3 sequencers and Cubase is in my list also, I'm not problems with software, it's just software
> 
> There is one interesting thing about Cubase <-> Reaper, Cubase users (not all) just goes crazy if you told them about Reaper, and I don't know why is that ?!? I think is because of licence price
> 
> ...



yes, it can do quite a few things if you tweak it alot. how long again did it take you to add all those extra things? 

i prefer an all in one solution where everything just works and i guess that is what most people want?

if reaper works for you iam happy, but i would always prefer cubase, logic or studio one over it.


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## James Marshall (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> yes, it can do quite a few things if you tweak it alot. how long again did it take you to add all those extra things?
> 
> i prefer an all in one solution where everything just works and i guess that is what most people want?
> 
> if reaper works for you iam happy, but i would always prefer cubase, logic or studio one over it.



It does take a fair bit of time to customise Reaper and tailor it to how you work, that is true. It's an evolutionary process and it becomes more and more suited to how you work over time. But it eventually gets to that point where it feels like you've had a DAW specifically made for _you,_ and how _you _work, it becomes increasingly difficult to consider switching.

The videos posted before regarding the various MIDI functionality in Cubase _can_ be replicated in Reaper, i.e. CC curves, velocity ramps/compression etc. Trust me I would not want use a DAW with inferior MIDI editing , and I just want to ensure it's represented fairly.

This may not suit everybody though I agree, and unless you spend serious time with Reaper it will always seems a bit weird out of the box (particularly the MIDI editing). It's also quite ugly - but then it can be themed! If it didn't work out for you that's OK  . I couldn't get on with DP or Ableton, but recognise they are also excellent choices and would implore people to just try demos.


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## sazema (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> yes, it can do quite a few things if you tweak it alot. how long again did it take you to add all those extra things?
> 
> i prefer an all in one solution where everything just works and i guess that is what most people want?
> 
> if reaper works for you iam happy, but i would always prefer cubase, logic or studio one over it.



Yes, I found it works good for me, and my wallet is happy too 
Heroix, don't get me wrong (I have nothing against you as only you and me discussing here), I'm just sick of few things here in VI:

1) Speaking about Reaper like it is devil
2) Speaking about Cubase and EPIC midi editing (I know M.Verta uses Pro Tools and do very good midi editing as well, shame on you Mike)
3) Using Cubase just because HZ, JunkieXL and who else uses Cubase, and that's why is good

This is phenomen.
I just wondering if HZ uses Traction in his production what will be? All members here will be crazy about Traction for sure.

> Wow, have you heard? Junkie uses 8dio adagio violins ... I must buy also, it must be good!
No, it is not! I feel Berlin Strings is better or even Soaring string.

*Just be FREE and be yourself, and use what is best for you.*


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## MarcelM (May 6, 2017)

i am not using cubase because junkie xl uses it... maybe iam even using it longer than him and thats why it is hard for me to switch. i used it back on the atari st and tried alot of stuff over the years, but no other daw really was for me (logic and studio one came very very close).

sure, people should always try all out daws. thats why there are demos, right?

thing is. reaper is more for users who love to fiddle alot around with the programm and tweak it. things like multi out kontakt for example are complicated and so is all that installing of add ons or finding out what actions you need and what you dont. i simply cannot recommend reaper really because it cannot do the basic things as good as for example cubase or logic. there is only one point i could recommend reaper, and that is because of his very very good cpu usage. it beats anything on the market easy.

also its look can be customized to a certain point, but all the menus will still look like a shareware software.

who knows. justin might improve the piano roll and its editing features and i may try it out again, but i did 3 times now actually and spend really alot of time tweaking it. i dont wanna tweak my daw over and over - i wanna make music. thats just for me, and probably everyone should make his own experience.


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## sazema (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> i am not using cubase because junkie xl uses it... maybe iam even using it longer than him and thats why it is hard for me to switch. i used it back on the atari st and tried alot of stuff over the years, but no other daw really was for me (logic and studio one came very very close).
> 
> sure, people should always try all out daws. thats why there are demos, right?
> 
> ...



Ok, maybe we should move to Skype now 
I understand you very well, especially if you are long time Cubase user.

Yes, when you install Cubase you have very few things to setup as audio interface, midi devices and some GUI options. 
In Reaper, you can set everything, from font size to tiny little midi item in grid, and that sometimes scared users and sometimes not.

No, I'm not crazy about fiddling stuff with Reaper, but truly after I set some stuff by my taste I generally export Reaper settings and that's it. If I want to use Reaper somewhere else, just load preferences and done.
If my system goes into crash, load preferences - done.

Good thing is, community is strong and updates are live every each, so if I change something, improve etc, just re-backup my settings and it's all.

There is a thing with people and changes. Same thing is commonly seen as:

* Photoshop vs Gimp (PS is superior, but when I saw what Gimp people do it's the same)
* Premiere vs Avid Media ... vs Vegas (at the end it's all the same with different gui)
* Nikon vs Canon cameras (I have both, Canon has a little bit warmer photos than Nikon, but I prefer Nikon)
* Adidas vs Nike
* etc

Good thing is we have a choice!

*GUI-ology*

Not agree with you about Reaper gui and shareware stuff, what is a shareware gui at all?
If is not blue and it has no fancy fonts it's ugly 
Now, you have answer why is Reaper faster than any other sequencer. It's plain and simple. Default GUI is ok, pleasant for eyes.

Which one is better?






or this one?






If I'm getting better sound and overall results with the first one - I will prefer first one. I'm not sleeping with it, it's just multi band compressor 
Is the fancy plugin a good plugin?


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## sazema (May 6, 2017)

About people and changes...

Two friends. One is windows user and the other one is mac user. After 10 years of usage they wish to switch equipment. They meet each other after some time and:
- the one with mac: ohh, man to close the window I have to click on X in left corner, it's weird
- the one with win: ohh man, to close the window I have to click on X in right corner, it's weird

And third one appears from the corner, with linux... what GUI?


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## MarcelM (May 6, 2017)

sazema said:


> About people and changes...
> 
> Two friends. One is windows user and the other one is mac user. After 10 years of usage they wish to switch equipment. They meet each other after some time and:
> - the one with mac: ohh, man to close the window I have to click on X in left corner, it's weird
> ...



iam fine with either 

but iam not fine with the reaper gui and the windows look of the plugins. also i think reapers piano roll is ugly, but its a matter of taste...


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## sazema (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> iam fine with either
> 
> but iam not fine with the reaper gui and the windows look of the plugins. also i think reapers piano roll is ugly, but its a matter of taste...



You're irreparable. Now even piano roll


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## MarcelM (May 6, 2017)

sazema said:


> You're irreparable. Now even piano roll



hehe yah 

i bought those ilogic theme from blankfiles, but sadly the piano roll will always look in a standard way except for color changes.

whatever. i will try again probably in a few month


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## sazema (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> hehe yah
> 
> i bought those ilogic theme from blankfiles, but sadly the piano roll will always look in a standard way except for color changes.
> 
> whatever. i will try again probably in a few month



Honestly, I tried many themes but I always back to default. It's the best.


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## robgb (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> have a look at the video. it can all do that out of the box without installing countless number of scripts and fiddling around with them.



Nice, but I didn't really see anything here that can't be done in Reaper. As for the scripts, installing them is not difficult. You download a single zip file, open it and tell it to install the 750 or so scripts that users have created. It took me a total of about two minutes. So not exactly a burden.

And the fact that users can and do create scripts for Reaper—a lot of them very, very good—is what makes Reaper and its community invaluable to me. Add in the $60 price tag, which includes two full versions of updates, and to my mind it has Cubase beat. But, hey, the best DAW you'll ever use is the DAW you prefer to use, so enjoy!


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## robgb (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> but iam not fine with the reaper gui


So change it. I have about fifty different GUIs loaded up that I can switch to when I get tired of the one I'm looking at. Check out this one: 

http://www.houseofwhitetie.com/reaper/imperial/wt_imperial.html


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## novaburst (May 6, 2017)

dhlkid said:


> Cubase


Cubase


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## Vovique (May 6, 2017)

I started with Cakewalk Pro Audio 7 twenty years ago, switched to Sonar, then to Cubase SX at home, Logic at work. Ever since discovering Pro Tools in 2008 never looked back. Despite the vox populi, MIDI capabilities are amazingly unique and versatile, - where else you'd find separate track and region midi properties?) That is, you can have your midi track conform to certain quantisation value and a midi region on that track to it's own quantise rules. Applies to velocity and etc as well.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> i simply cannot recommend reaper really because it cannot do the basic things as good as for example cubase or logic



With the exception of CC editing, which is still sub-par, Reaper can certainly perform in league with the best - and also do stuff that the others can't. For instance, Cubase doesn't allow you to timestretch midi notes in the piano roll - literally something I need to do every day.


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## MarcelM (May 6, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> With the exception of CC editing, which is still sub-par, Reaper can certainly perform in league with the best - and also do stuff that the others can't. For instance, Cubase doesn't allow you to timestretch midi notes in the piano roll - literally something I need to do every day.



well, i have to correct myself a little. it can do alot of things or almost anything like other daws, but way too complicated.

sure you can install the 750 scripts. but you still will have to check which one does what and which ones you need. 

and the cc editing is sadly a thing i use ALOT and this was really a weak point. that was in fact the point that kept me away.


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## Dani Donadi (May 6, 2017)

CUBASE....... and I've tried them all, including DP.
PT is great for mixing but how can you handle hundred of tracks without folders, that's beyond me.


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## sazema (May 6, 2017)

Main reason why that wiggle-jiggle midi cc functions are not included is because it's not something common.
I mean, guys made that scripts but I can say again - who need that?


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## MarcelM (May 6, 2017)

sazema said:


> Main reason why that wiggle-jiggle midi cc functions are not included is because it's not something common.
> I mean, guys made that scripts but I can say again - who need that?



ok lets say nobody needs it (actually alot of people draw bezier curves), but quite a few people use the chord track in cubase and there is nothing similar in reaper. actually no daw has something similar. there are quite a few things, but let us just say everyone should make his choice.


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## Rasmus Hartvig (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> and the cc editing is sadly a thing i use ALOT and this was really a weak point. that was in fact the point that kept me away.



I do agree about the CC editing, and it's the primary reason I haven't switched completely from Cubase to Reaper yet. When that gets a nice upgrade, I'm SO done with dongle-hell, inconsistent UI design and decades old software design paradigms.


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## MarcelM (May 6, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> I do agree about the CC editing, and it's the primary reason I haven't switched completely from Cubase to Reaper yet. When that gets a nice upgrade, I'm SO done with dongle-hell, inconsistent UI design and decades old software design paradigms.



what i dont understand is that justin doesnt implement better cc editing. it is there for automation, but not inside in the piano roll.
its not that much work (iam programmer myself) and would attract more users. its really reapers weakest point and needs some love. sadly justin didnt listen to people, and from what i read they requested that for quite a long time.

i posted this now at the reaper forums. maybe i get an answer 

its not that i dislike reaper totally. in fact i was totally impressed by the cpu usage and would love to see better midi handling. i would for sure try it for a longer time


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## Rasmus Hartvig (May 6, 2017)

Yeah, I don't get that either. However, I don't agree that CC editing should be implemented the same way as automation - there is quite a difference under the hood, and I don't think you should go with a visual paradigm that suggests there's smooth interpolation between points. Anyway, this is straying dangerously off-topic - just wanted to give a bit of balance to the thing about Reaper not being able to handle MIDI stuff.


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## MarcelM (May 6, 2017)

Rasmus Hartvig said:


> Yeah, I don't get that either. However, I don't agree that CC editing should be implemented the same way as automation - there is quite a difference under the hood, and I don't think you should go with a visual paradigm that suggests there's smooth interpolation between points. Anyway, this is straying dangerously off-topic - just wanted to give a bit of balance to the thing about Reaper not being able to handle MIDI stuff.



it should and can be different, but still he can use big chunks of the code from the automation lanes. maybe it gets some attention... would be very nice


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## robgb (May 6, 2017)

Heroix said:


> quite a few people use the chord track in cubase and there is nothing similar in reaper


But Reaper does have something similar. You can create chords automatically by installing a simple script, then right clicking in the piano roll and choosing insert chord. Studio One also has a chord creator. Do they all work the same? No. But pretty much every DAW has the same basic functions. It's just a matter of what you're used to or what you prefer.


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## Eduardo Macedo (May 6, 2017)

Not to be even more off topic, but...

How do you guys, Reapers users, do velocity scaling when editing items in multiple tracks?


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## Mishabou (May 6, 2017)

Vovique said:


> I started with Cakewalk Pro Audio 7 twenty years ago, switched to Sonar, then to Cubase SX at home, Logic at work. Ever since discovering Pro Tools in 2008 never looked back. Despite the vox populi, MIDI capabilities are amazingly unique and versatile, - where else you'd find separate track and region midi properties?) That is, you can have your midi track conform to certain quantisation value and a midi region on that track to it's own quantise rules. Applies to velocity and etc as well.



Same here, i work with PTHD 12 and CB9 on a regular basis and i actually prefer PT's midi.


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## Mishabou (May 6, 2017)

Dani Donadi said:


> CUBASE....... and I've tried them all, including DP.
> PT is great for mixing but how can you handle hundred of tracks without folders, that's beyond me.


 
Show/Hide and grouping.


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## sazema (May 7, 2017)

Eduardo Macedo said:


> Not to be even more off topic, but...
> 
> How do you guys, Reapers users, do velocity scaling when editing items in multiple tracks?



It's easy, first thing when you editing multiple tracks with one editor is what you need, edit one track or all together.
If you want to edit one by one, you can click on right side menu listed items and turn on/off parts you wish to edit.
If you want to edit multiple lanes at once you have to first turn on that option by right clicking on right side menu.



Here I'm demonstrating CCs drawing by hand, but you can do with key shortcuts (ctrl, alt, shift) compression, scaling etc.


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## Eduardo Macedo (May 7, 2017)

sazema said:


> It's easy, first thing when you editing multiple tracks with one editor is what you need, edit one track or all together.
> If you want to edit one by one, you can click on right side menu listed items and turn on/off parts you wish to edit.
> If you want to edit multiple lanes at once you have to first turn on that option by right clicking on right side menu.
> 
> ...





Sazema, I mean, velocity scaling like this (watch for 10 seconds), but with MULTIPLE items at once.


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## MarcelM (May 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> But Reaper does have something similar. You can create chords automatically by installing a simple script, then right clicking in the piano roll and choosing insert chord. Studio One also has a chord creator. Do they all work the same? No. But pretty much every DAW has the same basic functions. It's just a matter of what you're used to or what you prefer.



the chord track is not only about creating chords. alot of plugins can do that. chord track can do alot more for you and cubase is the only daw which has something like that. have you worked with cubase yourself with some last version? maybe you should demo it if you can to see the differences.


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## jaminjamesp (May 7, 2017)

Anhtu said:


> Same here, i work with PTHD 12 and CB9 on a regular basis and i actually prefer PT's midi.



I don't think there is anything PT can't do that others can, at least nothing I use on a regular basis. It's how I have to do go about doing it that frustrates me. Maybe I'm just being lazy, haha! Certain things bother me, like when I go in to the midi editor having to resize lanes for every parameter. Or just switching between them. I know the short cut to toggle them, but I wish I could just program a short cut to bring up different parameters. Switching between tools isn't as intuitive as I'd like. If I could program my own shortcuts, that would be a game changer. 

But that still leaves the issue of the video engine. I tried a demo of Video Slave 3, and it was really nice. But there was a noticeable delay on stopping and starting playback, several hundred milliseconds. It's a small thing, but for some reason it bugged me. I suppose it buggs me less than constant crashing. 

Things I really wish I had are an expression map, easier access to midi editing (I think the features are there) and other little things, like how notes on the piano roll in Cubase show the name of the note, and highlight the piano key on the piano roll when moving the mouse around or dragging notes. I like the new sampler in Cubase 9. And I like that you can drag audio to a midi track and generate notes on the transients, that seems huge. 

But. I REALLY like working with/manipulating audio, and for that, Pro Tools still seems so quick and easy. 

I should look at Slate Batch Commander and see if I couldn't program some of these midi things in to that.


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## vewilya (May 7, 2017)

jaminjamesp said:


> I don't think there is anything PT can't do that others can, at least nothing I use on a regular basis. It's how I have to do go about doing it that frustrates me. Maybe I'm just being lazy, haha! Certain things bother me, like when I go in to the midi editor having to resize lanes for every parameter. Or just switching between them. I know the short cut to toggle them, but I wish I could just program a short cut to bring up different parameters. Switching between tools isn't as intuitive as I'd like. If I could program my own shortcuts, that would be a game changer.
> 
> But that still leaves the issue of the video engine. I tried a demo of Video Slave 3, and it was really nice. But there was a noticeable delay on stopping and starting playback, several hundred milliseconds. It's a small thing, but for some reason it bugged me. I suppose it buggs me less than constant crashing.
> 
> ...


You could use an iPad and the metagrid app for programming more complicated editing chains!


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## sazema (May 7, 2017)

Eduardo Macedo said:


> Sazema, I mean, velocity scaling like this (watch for 10 seconds), but with MULTIPLE items at once.




Unfort. Reaper still have lack with native options to do that. But it will be for sure.


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## robgb (May 7, 2017)

Heroix said:


> the chord track is not only about creating chords. alot of plugins can do that. chord track can do alot more for you and cubase is the only daw which has something like that. have you worked with cubase yourself with some last version? maybe you should demo it if you can to see the differences.


I worked with Cubase and Nuendo for many years. My main DAWs before moving on. I've found that, for my purposes, Reaper is far more powerful in more ways than I can count. Reaper does more and is more customizable than any DAW I've ever used—and I only discovered this after ignoring it for several years. I haven't even begun to tap its potential. My experience with it has been far more pleasant than working with Cubase. From the GUI to the features available, the amazing community of users, the free updates every couple months, etc. And I say this as someone who has used every major (and several minor) DAW on the market except Pro Tools, which never interested me. But this is all MY experience.

I'm not trying to get you to use Reaper over Cubase. Obviously, you've made your choice of DAWs and you love it. As have I. But your constant dissing of Reaper annoys me, especially since you obviously have no idea of its power. Cubase is an amazing DAW, no question about it. I simply prefer the equally amazing Reaper.


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## robgb (May 7, 2017)

sazema said:


> Unfort. Reaper still have lack with native options to do that. But it will be for sure.


You can do velocity scaling in Reaper by simply using mouse modifiers. Go to your CC lanes and try it.


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## MarcelM (May 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> I worked with Cubase and Nuendo for many years. My main DAWs before moving on. I've found that, for my purposes, Reaper is far more powerful in more ways than I can count. Reaper does more and is more customizable than any DAW I've ever used—and I only discovered this after ignoring it for several years. I haven't even begun to tap its potential. My experience with it has been far more pleasant than working with Cubase. From the GUI to the features available, the amazing community of users, the free updates every couple months, etc. And I say this as someone who has used every major (and several minor) DAW on the market except Pro Tools, which never interested me. But this is all MY experience.
> 
> I'm not trying to get you to use Reaper over Cubase. Obviously, you've made your choice of DAWs and you love it. As have I. But your constant dissing of Reaper annoys me, especially since you obviously have no idea of its power. Cubase is an amazing DAW, no question about it. I simply prefer the equally amazing Reaper.



iam not dissing reaper. it might work for some people but my opinion is that there are a few important things missing or too complicated. and as i said i tried it really a few times and invested quite some time into tweaking it. i was never really pleased with the results. but know why i tried it 3 or even 4 times? the reaper engine impressed me. its by far the best on the market, and if they improve things i will try out again.

i guess we are done now with this. it could be an endless discussion. everyone has its personal preference i guess


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## robgb (May 7, 2017)

For those of you who have tried Reaper and been driven away by its complexity, do yourself a favor and watch these tutorials by Kenny Gioia. They will help you understand just how easy and powerful Reaper is to use.


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## sazema (May 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> You can do velocity scaling in Reaper by simply using mouse modifiers. Go to your CC lanes and try it.



No, this compression stuff from video you just can't. You can with Julian script or so.
Current key modifier is CTRL+SHIFT but it's just for drawing straight line, like this:







But compressing (with keeping up ratio) velocity is something different and it can be done only with setting up script right now.
In this example you can raise up velocity only at left or right side, but not somewhere in the middle.
If I understand what is primary question?


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## sazema (May 7, 2017)

Two cool scripts (from Julian) are:

1) Tilt selected CCs or velocities to mouse position
2) Compress or expand selected CC or velocity events using mousewheel

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=176878


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## robgb (May 7, 2017)

sazema said:


> No, this compression stuff from video you just can't. You can with Julian script or so.
> Current key modifier is CTRL+SHIFT but it's just for drawing straight line, like this:
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to do here, but velocity scaling isn't limited to this. You can also draw velocity raising or lowering left, right or middle, if you prefer. You can draw a curve, you can draw a straight line, you can draw a wavy line, etc.


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## sazema (May 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to do here, but velocity scaling isn't limited to this. You can also draw velocity raising or lowering left, right or middle, if you prefer. You can draw a curve, you can draw a straight line, you can draw a wavy line, etc.



How? Is there any video you pointing to?


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## Vik (May 7, 2017)

Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Cubase's logical editor is one of the biggest things for me.


If I'm not mistaken, the "logical" editor in Cubase was more or less implemented as a response to Logic having its "Transform" window. But that's a long time ago, and maybe the Cubase solution has developed a lot since then. Logic's transform window hasn't changed much lately, other than that it's now possible to trigger the different transform set with up to 20 key commands.

@jaminjamesp 
"What features of your DAW make scoring easier for you?"
That depends on what exactly you mean my scoring. Film scoring.... and does it involve use of a score editor?

I have both Cubase and Logic. I know Logic very well, but I'm relatively new to Cubase - so I'm biased in several ways. I can post something later about which stuff in Logic I like for making/writing music the way many composers do in this forum, which involves a lot of virtual instruments with all the comes with it: CC automation, articulation control, and (for many of us) use of the score editor.

In case you are interested, there's another thread here now only about the differences between Cubase and Logic. Many of the pros with using Cubase are quite obvious, but Logic has it's pros as well.


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## robgb (May 7, 2017)

sazema said:


> How? Is there any video you pointing to?


Didn't you post such a video showing the drawing of velocity?


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## sazema (May 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> Didn't you post such a video showing the drawing of velocity?



Yes, it's my video. Ok, question was about velocity compressing by simply dragging like in Cubase YT video.
So, you select all CCs in lane and then somewhere about middle click and drag to top CC events, and then just middle is raised and sequentially left and right side but with keeping aspect ratio. Reaper has not such native function yet, only with script.

Something like this:


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## sazema (May 7, 2017)

Here is compressing of MIDI CCs with using scripts in Reaper



So just mapped Tilt script to key "K" and when I need such behavior press K and then move mouse up or down.


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## sazema (May 7, 2017)

Vik said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the "logical" editor in Cubase was more or less implemented as a response to Logic having its "Transform" window. But that's a long time ago, and maybe the Cubase solution has developed a lot since then. Logic's transform window hasn't changed much lately, other than that it's now possible to trigger the different transform set with up to 20 key commands.
> 
> @jaminjamesp
> "What features of your DAW make scoring easier for you?"
> ...



Indeed, I just commented your post  A new war is coming (The winter is coming)... But I think we spend a lot of time for proving and explaining something instead of spending that time for composing.


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## Eduardo Macedo (May 7, 2017)

sazema said:


> But compressing (with keeping up ratio) velocity is something different and it can be done only with setting up script right now.
> In this example you can raise up velocity only at left or right side, but not somewhere in the middle.
> If I understand what is primary question?




Yeah, Sazema, you got it right.

It can be done in Reaper, but only via script and editing ONE item at a time afaik.

*Is there a proper thread to talk about these things in Reaper? *


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## sazema (May 7, 2017)

Eduardo Macedo said:


> Yeah, Sazema, you got it right.
> 
> It can be done in Reaper, but only via script and editing ONE item at a time afaik.
> 
> *Is there a proper thread to talk about these things in Reaper? *



Script is bad, it won't recognize multiple edit, unfort. :( No doubt that this compressing stuff must be native function!

Don't know about thread, maybe we should open a new one...


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## jaminjamesp (May 7, 2017)

So I'd like to at least give Cubase a whirl. I went to go download the demo and I have to have a Steinberg USB elicenser. Anyone know a LEGAL way around this (I don't want to get banned for promoting anything nefarious). I really don't want to have to spend $34 on a dongle that I may never need. But I guess if it's my only option, I'll have to.


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## KerrySmith (May 7, 2017)

jaminjamesp said:


> So I'd like to at least give Cubase a whirl. I went to go download the demo and I have to have a Steinberg USB elicenser.



I'm going to preface this by saying "I'm not sure about this" but you MIGHT be able to authorize your hard drive. When I open the eLicenser Control Center on my machine, it does offer an HD icon with a "Soft-eLicenser" as an option. I already had the dongle for VEP, Arturia, and reFX' Nexus, so I haven't tried the SeL version. But it might be worth looking into. It's a Steinberg product, so see what it says on their site or forums.


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## gregh (May 7, 2017)

sazema said:


> No, this compression stuff from video you just can't. You can with Julian script or so.
> Current key modifier is CTRL+SHIFT but it's just for drawing straight line, like this:
> 
> 
> ...


I think the Reacontrolmidi plugin works for this - as much as I have tried it anyway. Reaper has a lot of virtues for sure but there is a huge difference between stock Reaper and customised Reaper with all the scripts, menus re-organised and so on. And if you do lots of very different styles of project, it is probably back to the drawing board again, learn new scripts, make up a different set of keystrokes, macros etc etc. And it will never look as coherent or as nice as a vector based GUI designed by good visual designers. Which may or may not annoy you


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## jaminjamesp (May 7, 2017)

KerrySmith said:


> I'm going to preface this by saying "I'm not sure about this" but you MIGHT be able to authorize your hard drive. When I open the eLicenser Control Center on my machine, it does offer an HD icon with a "Soft-eLicenser" as an option. I already had the dongle for VEP, Arturia, and reFX' Nexus, so I haven't tried the SeL version. But it might be worth looking into. It's a Steinberg product, so see what it says on their site or forums.



Yeah, unfortunately the software licenser is only available for some products.


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## robgb (May 7, 2017)

jaminjamesp said:


> So I'd like to at least give Cubase a whirl. I went to go download the demo and I have to have a Steinberg USB elicenser. Anyone know a LEGAL way around this (I don't want to get banned for promoting anything nefarious). I really don't want to have to spend $34 on a dongle that I may never need. But I guess if it's my only option, I'll have to.


Wait. What? They require a dongle for the DEMO?


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## robgb (May 7, 2017)

Eduardo Macedo said:


> Yeah, Sazema, you got it right.
> 
> It can be done in Reaper, but only via script and editing ONE item at a time afaik.



Curious to know why people talk about having to use scripts as if that's a bad thing. The fact that we can use scripts—particularly user scripts—is, to my mind, a huge benefit of Reaper. There are thousands of them, made by people like you and me, who didn't want to wait around for the developer to come up with a solution. I think that's fantastic. The articulation switching script by Blake Robinson comes to mind, which works beautifully.


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## gregh (May 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> Curious to know why people talk about having to use scripts as if that's a bad thing. The fact that we can use scripts—particularly user scripts—is, to my mind, a huge benefit of Reaper. There are thousands of them, made by people like you and me, who didn't want to wait around for the developer to come up with a solution. I think that's fantastic. The articulation switching script by Blake Robinson comes to mind, which works beautifully.



I think people are worried about forward/backward compatibility. In practise this is not such a bid deal as all the old versions of Reaper are available and you can have as many different independent installs of Reaper as you want. If you wanted you could lock off every project with its own version of Reaper plus scripts - the storage overhead would be quite small


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## jaminjamesp (May 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> Wait. What? They require a dongle for the DEMO?



According to their website, they do. Which seems odd. Doesn't to cater to anyone wanting to switch from another DAW, to user already using Cubase thinking of upgrading.


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## Eduardo Macedo (May 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> Curious to know why people talk about having to use scripts as if that's a bad thing.



Never said it's a bad thing. ;]

But, in fact, I've just learned a few days ago that the way the scripts work in Reaper, doesn't allow them to edit with multiple tracks at once and it could have another drawback I'm not aware of.


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## KerrySmith (May 7, 2017)

jaminjamesp said:


> According to their website, they do. Which seems odd. Doesn't to cater to anyone wanting to switch from another DAW, to user already using Cubase thinking of upgrading.



Oy. Well, if you're thinking of ever using VEP, it's probably a dongle worth getting anyway. If you like Cubase after the demo expires, you might also want to hit up Sweetwater (or a similar major retailer) and ask about "cross-grade" pricing.


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## sazema (May 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> Wait. What? They require a dongle for the DEMO?



Yes, Pro version requires a dongle , Elements not.


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## sazema (May 7, 2017)

robgb said:


> Curious to know why people talk about having to use scripts as if that's a bad thing. The fact that we can use scripts—particularly user scripts—is, to my mind, a huge benefit of Reaper. There are thousands of them, made by people like you and me, who didn't want to wait around for the developer to come up with a solution. I think that's fantastic. The articulation switching script by Blake Robinson comes to mind, which works beautifully.



Indeed, even Logic has scripting functionality.


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## Anders Wall (May 7, 2017)

jaminjamesp said:


> The Avid Video Engine doesn't play nicely in PT 12


As long as U stay away from H264 and use DNxHD or ProRes you're fine.
I've been on 12 since launch with no probs, but I always use DNxHD.

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Compatibility/Avid-Qualified-video-CODECS-for-Pro-Tools-11

Best,
/Anders


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## pmcrockett (May 7, 2017)

Eduardo Macedo said:


> Never said it's a bad thing. ;]
> 
> But, in fact, I've just learned a few days ago that the way the scripts work in Reaper, doesn't allow them to edit with multiple tracks at once and it could have another drawback I'm not aware of.


Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, there's no technical reason why a script can't edit multiple tracks at once, though if you're not writing your own scripts, you're at the mercy of however the script author sets things up.


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## Eduardo Macedo (May 8, 2017)

pmcrockett said:


> Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, there's no technical reason why a script can't edit multiple tracks at once, though if you're not writing your own scripts, you're at the mercy of however the script author sets things up.



It took me a while to find, but

http://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1803960&styleid=4

_"...currently MIDI scripts can only work in the one currently active item / take.
It's a limitation of the API unfortunately which hopefully will be changed at some point."_

Anyway, I'd be glad to be wrong about that.

Just one more thing:

*The action "Track: Select last touched track" doesn't work here.*

Does it happen with anyone else?


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## pmcrockett (May 8, 2017)

Eduardo Macedo said:


> It took me a while to find, but
> 
> http://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1803960&styleid=4
> 
> ...


Interesting. I guess I haven't run into this limitation on my own because most of my MIDI scripting doesn't base its edits on the selection state of the MIDI data. I have been frustrated by the wonkiness of the piano roll view states, though, and it sounds like this is kind of an aspect of that. The problem as I understand it from the linked thread and from what I've seen in the API documentation is that the API isn't aware of the PRV item visibility/selection state beyond the track explicitly flagged for editing.

I just did a test, and it looks like anything that needs to be accomplished in this situation can be accomplished by iterating through the raw MIDI data and operating on any MIDI event that's flagged as selected rather than trying to read the user PRV selection directly. Doing it by examining the MIDI data bypasses the need to know which takes/items are selected/editable, which is what causes the problem. Unless there are deeper aspects to this problem that I'm not considering, it looks to me like this is basically a non-issue as far as scripting flexibility goes.


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## constaneum (May 8, 2017)

I'm still liking FL Studio. A loyal user of Image-Line. I'm used to its simplicity. Its simple GUI as well as ways of loading VST, effects and etc are so easy. Perhaps it's my first DAW when i started music composition years back. I've tried Cubase and found it hard to use. It's too complicated and time consuming which slowed down my workflow. 

The only thing I wish FL Studio might consider improving its DAW will be having its on Virtual Stage Settings (i'm not sure whether any DAW offers this currently instead of relying on third party but i really wish FL studio will have it) for instrument positioning as well as a better convolution reverb.


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## gregh (May 8, 2017)

constaneum said:


> I'm still liking FL Studio. A loyal user of Image-Line. I'm used to its simplicity. Its simple GUI as well as ways of loading VST, effects and etc are so easy. Perhaps it's my first DAW when i started music composition years back. I've tried Cubase and found it hard to use. It's too complicated and time consuming which slowed down my workflow.
> 
> The only thing I wish FL Studio might consider improving its DAW will be having its on Virtual Stage Settings (i'm not sure whether any DAW offers this currently instead of relying on third party but i really wish FL studio will have it) for instrument positioning as well as a better convolution reverb.


I am interested in your FL experience as I am looking at switching from Reaper to FL - or maybe using both. But I am sick of Reaper's terrible workflow out of the box, the ugly UI and the general complexity of setting up different projects. Far too many times when I am composing I run into some issue that has a solution, but by the time I find that solution, get all the scripts working, check the tutorials for the idiosyncratic methods each script might need etc etc, I'm sick of using the computer and dont feel like working anymore.
I think reaper is very good for composers with consistent needs across projects, but not so good otherwise


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## James Marshall (May 8, 2017)

gregh said:


> I think reaper is very good for composers with consistent needs across projects, but not so good otherwise



I'd be interested to hear some examples, care to elaborate?


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## constaneum (May 8, 2017)

Oh yeah. I was with FL Studio 10 all this while coz that time their iBridge wasn't that matured (even when they've moved on with FL Studio 11). I ended up using JBridge for few years. Lately after my old DAW died and purchased the latest with Windows 10, Kaby Lake CPU, i've switched to FL Studio 12. Their iBridge matures a lot and there's no crashing or failed to load up the VST plugins. No longer use JBridge anymore.

I've also noticed one smart thing about their iBridge. My past project files which were using jBridge were somehow loadable instead of saying "failed to find the following jBridge VST plugin" which will halt the projects from being loaded up. FL Studio 12 is smart enough to automatically route jBridge plugins to iBridge to load up my past project files.

The best thing is they offer free upgrades which i have to say they've matured a lot and i believe they've really pay attention to their customers' endless list of requests a lot and put in lots of efforts to improve their products. (i still recall the era of non-64 bit FL Studio where lots of loyal customers were requesting for it. They've took quite some time to meet such request but at least they're there already and they did make the effort to have it for the MAC platform due to numerous request for that).


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## MarcelM (May 8, 2017)

gregh said:


> I am interested in your FL experience as I am looking at switching from Reaper to FL - or maybe using both. But I am sick of Reaper's terrible workflow out of the box, the ugly UI and the general complexity of setting up different projects. Far too many times when I am composing I run into some issue that has a solution, but by the time I find that solution, get all the scripts working, check the tutorials for the idiosyncratic methods each script might need etc etc, I'm sick of using the computer and dont feel like working anymore.
> I think reaper is very good for composers with consistent needs across projects, but not so good otherwise



if you want really a quick workflow id recommend you to demo studio one. it really has the fastest workflow out of all daws. its a pity that it is quite a cpu hog, but i hear it gets an update on this. personally i also dont like the flat gui, but other people love it


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## gregh (May 8, 2017)

James Marshall said:


> I'd be interested to hear some examples, care to elaborate?


not really - it is not as if I keep notes on all the times Reaper is frustrating. I've been using Reaper reasonably often since at least 2006, so these are not the problems of someone inexperienced in using it.


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## MarcelM (May 8, 2017)

honestly, i have to say this.
i really cannot understand people defending reaper all the time.

like greg said, the workflow out of the box is terrible. everyone who used cubase, logic or studio one out of the box would agree at this.

and why do we use a daw? we want to make music and not spend countless hours to tweak it.

by design reaper isnt as professional as other daws, and i dont care about the price point (this gets mentioned alot).


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## James Marshall (May 8, 2017)

gregh said:


> not really - it is not as if I keep notes on all the times Reaper is frustrating. I've been using Reaper reasonably often since at least 2006, so these are not the problems of someone inexperienced in using it.


I can assure you I wasn't doubting your experience. If you've made you're mind up about Reaper though that's fair enough


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## Rasmus Hartvig (May 8, 2017)

Heroix said:


> really cannot understand people defending reaper all the time.
> 
> like greg said, the workflow out of the box is terrible. everyone who used cubase, logic or studio one out of the box would agree at this.



Depends on what you are using it for. I've been using Reaper for sound design / audio editing for 7 years, and on that front it leaves Cubase in the dust - even out of the box. With custom tweaks it takes off to a whole other level of efficiency.

For music, there's still some things left to be desired, but the list has shrunk to a few points that will certainly be fixed at some point. I'm still composing most of my music in Cubase, but I have to say that Steinberg's design ethos and UX is horrendous. It's rife with decades old interface design tropes, coupled with Steinberg's inexplicable desire to design their own UX patterns - which are in turn inconsistent, impractical and inscrutable. The sole reason I'm still using Cubase is the CC editing - that is the only thing it does way better than Reaper.

Oh, and I'd take something immensely tweakable with a so-so out-of-the-box experience over something locked down any day. If you don't like a certain aspect of Cubase, you are basically fucked. In Reaper I can 9 times out of 10 change it to the desired behavior.


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## pmcrockett (May 8, 2017)

Heroix said:


> honestly, i have to say this.
> i really cannot understand people defending reaper all the time.
> 
> like greg said, the workflow out of the box is terrible. everyone who used cubase, logic or studio one out of the box would agree at this.
> ...


Can't speak for others, but for me, it's the scripting. Robust scripting support is the single most important consideration for me in a DAW, and I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of other things to get it. In the long term, it means that as I build up a codebase the DAW adapts to my workflow rather than my workflow having to adapt to the DAW. This might not be a big deal if you like the out-of-the-box workflow of a particular DAW, but I don't like any of them and I can code a workflow that I like better.


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## jaminjamesp (May 8, 2017)

WallofSound said:


> As long as U stay away from H264 and use DNxHD or ProRes you're fine.
> I've been on 12 since launch with no probs, but I always use DNxHD.
> 
> http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Compatibility/Avid-Qualified-video-CODECS-for-Pro-Tools-11
> ...




I've gone back and forth between both codecs so many times. Transcoded using different apps. Changed settings. Done everything I can think of. I can't get it to run smoothly. I did recently update to Sierra, and that's when problems got a lot worse. I may go back to 10.10.5 and see if things calm down again.


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## robgb (May 8, 2017)

Heroix said:


> if you want really a quick workflow id recommend you to demo studio one. it really has the fastest workflow out of all daws. its a pity that it is quite a cpu hog, but i hear it gets an update on this. personally i also dont like the flat gui, but other people love it


I came from Studio One and I have to say, in my experience, it's a CPU hog when a full orchestral template is installed. Other than that it IS a terrific DAW.


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## robgb (May 8, 2017)

gregh said:


> But I am sick of Reaper's terrible workflow out of the box, the ugly UI and the general complexity of setting up different projects.


I don't really get any of this. Reaper's default GUI isn't beautiful, sure, but it's no less beautiful than, say, Cubase, which is butt ugly in my opinion. And you can change the theme at the click of a button. The one I'm using now is quite beautiful. The built-in effects are GUI free pretty much, but they're also some of the best I've used, and I can't see letting an ugly effects GUI stop me from using them.

As for workflow out of the box, I'm not sure how it differs from any other DAW. Workflow out of the box is always difficult when you start a new DAW. It takes a while to learn it. I had to take a full two days to learn Reaper and customize it to fit my desired workflow. Now I have everything I need in custom toolbars and menus. 

As far as complexity goes, the hardest thing to get your head around is routing. But once you understand it, it's the most powerful routing system of any DAW on the market. I think people are thrown off by the fact that a track is just a track and can serve any function you choose: Audio track, instrument track, folder, separator, buss, VCA, meter, you name it. But you can set up track templates for each and save them to a toolbar. Need a VSTi? Kontakt instance? A stereo track assigned to your two condenser mic inputs? A mono track assigned to your bass input? An FX track with a convolution/delay/compression automatically loaded?

It can all be done quite easily and allows you to create YOUR workflow, not one limited by the developer's whims.

Yes, I sound like an evangelist for Reaper. I can't help myself. After years of resistance, I finally took a few hours and discovered what an amazing DAW it is. But I doubt my enthusiasm will change anyone's mind. So, good luck with your DAW hunt.


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## sazema (May 8, 2017)

Huh, always 2 EPIC thesis:

Cubase EPIC midi editing
Reaper EPIC customization
But each sequencer has its own EPIC story I believe  Like before, if you want to mix and be a producer to record bands you have to use Pro Tools... Why? You can do that even with Ableton Live and multi-input sound interface.
Wrong thesis comes from idea that Avid had mixing consoles (hardware) and Pro Tools was well integrated with that stuff as now.
And most producers bought mixing desks with well integrated software.

No epic customization in Reaper, just a few parameters to tweak. I personally always get rid of default behavior to interpret each item as looped item (if I want item to be looped I will set that, like Logic do), project default settings 16bit wav, and coloring items stuff, and that's all.
I have only 2 scripts installed

disable track function mapped to key "T" (constantly used)
tilt CCs mapped to key "K" (rarely used)
and that's all. Nothing else comes to my mind. I'm not feeling like something is missing while I'm working with it.

Ahh, I forgot... setup of metronome behavior 

I'm using midi controller also, so I prefer to record CC changes while I'm recording midi stuff. That way I have minimal editing in CC lanes. Also, I prefer to re-record CCs over existing midi items also with hardware.

But what I did earlier (important):

created *track template* with Kontakt 8 out
created *track template* with Omnisphere 8 out
created *track template* with StylusRMX 8 out KIT/LOOP mode
... or anything else with multi-out
If I need multi-out Kontakt, just right click -> load track template "kontakt 8" and that's all, everything routed correctly.
If I need more multi-out Kontakt, again, right click -> load track template "kontakt 8" as many as I wish. Can't be better 
But, I prefer to work with *single Kontakt instances* in my projects.

Also, I created a very few project templates (because with Reaper you have track template and project template separated) as I will do with any other sequencer.

trailer template
classical template
weird orchestral template
etc...
As a result, hmmm, I need trailer template with 2 instances of omnisphere multi-out (4 steps of destiny):

load up trailer template
in TCP, right click -> load track template "omni 8"
load one more time same thing
save project as ...
Total of 10 secs  Can't be better really, as author of this post asked what makes scoring easier.


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## sazema (May 8, 2017)

So as a conclusion to main thread question.

> Whatever you use it's just a matter of how you learned your sequencer and its functionality, and nothing more.
> Neither Cubase or Reaper or Live will make you a better composer and producer, because of articulation maps or tilt editing!

Now, question is do you want to change your story and habits just because of one or two features?
You should ask yourself, what I need?, what I hate about existing?, what I love about existing?, etc.
Don't be fooled by thinking Live is better, Cubase is better or... because you're jumping into a new world of troubles  Like with everything. It's about software and there is no perfection!

What I always love to suggest, download DEMO of each interested and make one simple project, enough to inspect how it will work for you.

_A little digression:
I remember Live 8 > Live 9 switch time. What a hype!... use some audio loop and convert it to midi. Woaaaa. Great option!
And I asked friend of mine, long time ago, ok, so do you used that function ever? Answer was NO!
So even with Live 8 everything will be the same  But, ok, it's self software update._


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## sazema (May 8, 2017)

Few more words about GUI-ology.

For example, no one here is complaining about Kontakt GUI. From my perspective it's terrible, if we compare with Maschine or Battery or Guitar Rig.
Ok, you're using library, load patches etc etc... perfect.
But, how many of you made self sounds and do sampling inside Kontakt.
Soon after you start you are lost in windows and sections and you have no idea what is opened and what is where... I mean for real 
Or even fact that with lot of library tabs at the left side you have to spend a lot of time with sorting. Why they can't develop simple option with list inside window with sorting options (drag/drop), or even minify of existing library tabs.
But who cares, it does a job!


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## Anders Wall (May 8, 2017)

jaminjamesp said:


> I've gone back and forth between both codecs so many times. Transcoded using different apps. Changed settings. Done everything I can think of. I can't get it to run smoothly. I did recently update to Sierra, and that's when problems got a lot worse. I may go back to 10.10.5 and see if things calm down again.


It's fine in all the above. I work in different rooms and they run from 10.9 to 10.12, perhaps it's a HD thing... They are all on HD.

Most of the time I work with mxf files but when the occational h264 drops in I first encode to DNxHD as a mov.
Then use "ffmbc" to wrap it as a mxf.

Best,
/Anders


Edit: All on "stock" silver macs.


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## robgb (May 8, 2017)

sazema said:


> Like before, if you want to mix and be a producer to record bands you have to use Pro Tools... Why?


Tell this to mega producer Kenny Gioia, former PT user who now uses Reaper. I think the Pro Tools train is slowing down. Remember when Avid ruled video editing? No so much anymore.


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## robgb (May 8, 2017)

sazema said:


> But, how many of you made self sounds and do sampling inside Kontakt.


I create sounds and do my own sampling and also tweak the libraries I buy with additional scripting and pitch and volume corrections. And I agree that Kontakt's GUI can be a little tight but is certainly not "terrible." Scripting can easily be done with a third party text app like Sublime and quickly imported into Kontakt. I do think that it could be a lot more developer friendly, however.


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## sazema (May 8, 2017)

robgb said:


> I create sounds and do my own sampling and also tweak the libraries I buy with additional scripting and pitch and volume corrections. And I agree that Kontakt's GUI can be a little tight but is certainly not "terrible." Scripting can easily be done with a third party text app like Sublime and quickly imported into Kontakt. I do think that it could be a lot more developer friendly, however.



No, it's interesting, main thesis about Reaper is GUI is ugly ... There is so many ugly GUIs but no one complains about that 
Kontakt can be like ruin, but it's the only one! Or even some Kontakt library GUI, sounds good but GUI is bad, what to do with that?


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## robgb (May 8, 2017)

sazema said:


> No, it's interesting, main thesis about Reaper is GUI is ugly ... There is so many ugly GUIs but no one complains about that
> Kontakt can be like ruin, but it's the only one! Or even some Kontakt library GUI, sounds good but GUI is bad, what to do with that?


I'd argue that Reaper doesn't HAVE to be ugly.


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## juliansader (May 9, 2017)

Eduardo Macedo said:


> It took me a while to find, but
> 
> http://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1803960&styleid=4
> 
> ...



This is not quite correct. REAPER's MIDI scripts can in fact work in any item/take, and is not limited to the active item/take.

The actual problem is slightly different: In REAPER's MIDI editors (note the plural: REAPER can use multiple MIDI editors simultaneously) takes can be set to either 1) active, 2) editable, 3) visible, or 4) hidden. Scripts can detect whether a particular take is active in a particular editor, but cannot distinguish between editable, visible and hidden takes. The problem is therefore that scripts do not *know* which takes are editable and which are not.


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## sazema (May 9, 2017)

juliansader said:


> This is not quite correct. REAPER's MIDI scripts can in fact work in any item/take, and is not limited to the active item/take.
> 
> The actual problem is slightly different: In REAPER's MIDI editors (note the plural: REAPER can use multiple MIDI editors simultaneously) takes can be set to either 1) active, 2) editable, 3) visible, or 4) hidden. Scripts can detect whether a particular take is active in a particular editor, but cannot distinguish between editable, visible and hidden takes. The problem is therefore that scripts do not *know* which takes are editable and which are not.



Julian itself! Man, thanks for scripts...


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## rocking.xmas.man (May 11, 2017)

@jaminjamesp are you using Pro Tools Video windows or dedicated video display hardware like blackmagic or AJA? This could solve a lot of problems. As for which parameter lanes are shown and how big - have you tried setting up window configurations? I don't know if they include such settings, but I would give it a try


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