# The year of Trump



## NYC Composer

At well over 100 years old, I can honestly say I've never seen a political year like this. 

I totally understand anyone who thinks the status quo in American politics should be blown up. All I can say is-there is blown up and there is blown up. Be careful what you wish for.

When the most strident voices are dominant, when the loudest voices speak without thoughtful consideration or nuance, civil society suffers.


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## NYC Composer

As to liberal organizers sending in the troops, okay, let's just take that as a given for the sake of argument. What do you make of both conservatives and liberals across the board reacting in horror to the idea of a Trump presidency?

If the rule of rabble is the rule of "the people", I may actually (unlike bullshit utterers like Rush Limbaugh, etc.) move to Canada, or maybe some faraway island. If that's "the people", they are not my peeps.


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## NYC Composer

You mean crossing over to Bernie, right? Cause trust me, he ain't swinging Dems to the Trump ticket with these bully boy rallies.


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## Soundhound

Donald Trump is popular because he is giving voice to what Republicans have actually been thinking for a long time. The right wing has been using fear, ignorance and racism to get working class white people to vote for them. It started with Nixon's Southern Strategy, which was a polite term historians gave for using racist hatred to win elections. The articulation always used insinuation and inference, but the message was always clear. If it hadn't been clear it wouldn't have worked.

Now Trump comes right out and says it, and the party leaders are freaking out. He is the personification of the poison at the heart of the right wing, and ignorant, fearful racists love him for it. It is cathartic for them, a religious experience.

For everyone else, it is horrifying. But you shouldn't be surprised at what he's saying, an entire generation of right wing believers raised on this hatred and resentment knows nothing else.


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## NYC Composer

The Donald is having an "I am God" moment. "I think it, say it, and it happens. I must be God."

How in the world is he going to go back to being a simple billionaire slash reality tv guy?


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## tarantulis

We're all fucking doomed


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## NYC Composer

Well, we agree completely on campaign finance reform. Only public money and a much shortened cycle. In fact, it's part of my platform as a potential Emperor.


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## Soundhound

chimuelo said:


> if the professional protesters start becoming violent as we saw in Ferguson, Chicago and Baltimore.


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## Baron Greuner

Everyone wants to stop Trump. But how do we stop Hillary?


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## chimuelo

tarantulis said:


> We're all fucking doomed


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## JonFairhurst

Baron Greuner said:


> Everyone wants to stop Trump. But how do we stop Hillary? That's what I would want to know. Because if Hillary gets in, we most definitely are fucking doomed...



Hyperbole much?

Bill Clinton was president for eight years. We weren't doomed. In fact, things went pretty well during his administration. Maybe you didn't like his policies. Maybe you think he's a scumbag. But he didn't take many doom-worthy actions.

I personally hate the idea of royal families in the White House. I really wish the Ds had a non-Clinton running who is a stronger candidate than Bernie. It is what it is. We'll probably see similar policies as before, given that she was such an active First Lady in the 90s. Ho hum.

But f'ing doomed? Rather that worrying about candidates, it's probably a good time for self reflection.


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## JonFairhurst

Florida is weird. The old Jewish man and the hometown Cuban senator both lost. 

Then again, the two New Yorkers won. Maybe this isn't so surprising after all.


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## Soundhound

Hillary Clinton could be a terrific president. She's extraordinarily accomplished, was on the Watergate committee right out of college. The only people horrified at the prospect of her being in office are Bill O'Reilly fans. They don't count. Why she said last week that the Reagans were instrumental in starting the national conversation about AIDs makes my head spin though - it's a Lewis Carrollian concept, the exact opposite of the truth. Wtf Hillary??

Bernie Sanders would be a great president. Elizabeth Warren would be incredible, the closest thing to FDR we'll see in our lifetimes. But with her running the Senate, which looks likely, and Clinton in office, there's a real possibility of a truly progressive government. 

The idea of Donald Trump as president is something out of a Hunter Thompson fever dream, it's not acceptable.


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## NYC Composer

If you're talking about Axelrod, he doesn't seem to be fond of Hillary.

On the plus side: when he has his mustache, he looks a lot like the "My Pillow" dude.


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## NYC Composer

Now he's a respected (?) pundit on Fox!


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## Baron Greuner

Hurrah! Rubio sees sense finally.


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## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> Eventually these refugees could be the future generation to go back to their homeland and change things.



Hhhaaaaaa Jimmy. Uhhhh....no!


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## Baron Greuner

JonFairhurst said:


> Hyperbole much?
> 
> Bill Clinton was president for eight years.



I thought that was Hillary for 8 years.

Loving the story of the US 21 year old student tourist in North Korea. Way to go Otto!


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## NYC Composer

Will be this time.


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## Baron Greuner

I love how Hillary has turned into a sort of hoarse and screaming haradan now that Bernie is about to step down. Or was she always? Probably.
Just watching Fox News and the only two supporters they could televise for Hillary were a couple of LESBIANS. Figures. Typical of Fox News.
If they had bothered to report properly, they could have found thousands of LESBIANS that support Hillary. Poor reporting imv.


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## NYC Composer

Better a hoarse harridan than a sniggering frat boy/bully/bigot who never grew up nor recognized that he was born with a silver spoon protruding from his pursed-lipped maw.


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## NYC Composer

Hillary is supported by Dutch water walls?


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## chimuelo

images upload


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## NYC Composer

Yeah ok, you boyz have your fun. All I have to say is- if you dragged every male member of Congress out by the nuts and replaced them with women, the country would be moving forward within months.

Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong.


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## NYC Composer

I was talking about passing legislation in a bipartisan fashion, but you knew that.


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## NYC Composer

Yah, those hurtful non inclusive comments like "let's round up 12 million people, hunt 'em down like dogs and send 'em back to Guatemala, even though we implicitly invited them to pick fruit and do other shitty jobs Americans didn't want."


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## chimuelo

His name is pronounced Hey Zeus, like the God worshipped that struck down folks with Lightning Bolts..





photo hosting sites


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## NYC Composer

Hahaha!


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## Soundhound

I wonder what it is about women in power that totally freaks out the insane modern radical right wing, ok the whole Republican party? Of course it's part and parcel of their frightened, primitive mindset. But in light of the consistency with which so many homophobic congressmen and televangelists whose airport bathroom proclivities are eventually revealed (Little Marco's apparent taste for chains and leather is this week's treat), methinks they protest waaaay too much.


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## chimuelo

FWIW Immigrants playing by the rules, migrant workers and Union Tradesmen have Green Cards.

Its the mini Scarfaces, and victims of Racist Costillion Mexicans crossing over being abused by coyotes, that are used by liberals and conservatives in their endless pawn game who are the victims.
They wont be going anywhere.
But these things must be said so we can at least go after the criminals....

Liberals can't make such bold statements though as they can't win an election unless every plant, animal, extra terrestrial lifeform, black, gay, white, hispanic, asian, indian and muslim votes for them.
A loss of any of the offended could hurt feelings, and cause traumatic damage to guilty wealthy whites.


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## Nick Batzdorf

First, a post as a moderator: please knock off the "dyke" talk. If you want to criticize Hillary Clinton, fine, but it's not necessary to be offensive.

And that is offensive.


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## Baron Greuner

OK. I've corrected the words to LESBIANS. i.e. There are thousands of LESBIANS that would support Hillary.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Now a post as myself.

Seriously?! Clinton is an extremely bright, accomplished woman and a totally credible candidate for president. She understands the details of all the policies she's proposing inside out; there's nothing arbitrary about any of them.

If you disagree with them, let's hear why. I'm not totally down with everything she says either. But if all you can do is come up with offensive Bernie Bro crap - which he himself attacked as soon as he heard about it - then there's something very wrong with your attitude, never mind your knowledge of the issues.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Lesbians is the same thing, BG (at least as far as the offensiveness is concerned).

So what if she were lesbian, first of all. But I happen not to be particularly lesbian, and I support her because I believe she'll make a great president. I was going to vote for Sanders until the first debate, when I just couldn't avoid seeing how she blew everyone else off the stage.

To me she's just an extremely impressive candidate.


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## Soundhound

in·tol·er·ance
ˌinˈtäl(ə)rəns/
_noun_

unwillingness to accept views, beliefs, or behavior that differ from one's own.
"a struggle against religious intolerance"
synonyms: bigotry, narrow-mindedness, small-mindedness, illiberality, parochialism, provincialism;


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## juliansader

As a non-US citizen watching the spectacle of the US primaries, could someone please explain to me why Trump is so often described a racist/bigot/hater, even here on this forum? As far as I can gather from what I see on TV:
- Gay rights: Cruz is an enthusiastic member of the death-to-gays crowd. Hillary was against gay marriage a few years ago. Trump is fine with gays.
- Women's rights: Rubio and Cruz are both stringently against abortion rights. Trump used to be pro-choice some years ago, and even dared to defend Planned Parenthood during the primary debates.
- General human rights: Hillary and Obama cow-tow to Saudi Arabia and Islam in general, despite Islam being one of the vilest, most oppressive ideologies even invented. Trump dares to speak out against Islam.

Looking at the primaries and all the candidates from far across the ocean, Trump seems to me to be the best candidate.


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## Baron Greuner

Haha Julian. You're wasting your time. Liberals have no sense of humour when they're getting they're asses kicked in an election. Just look at Corbyn if you want proof.

Hey Batz! Where did I call Hillary a LESBIAN?

She's about as impressive as my ass. She has nothing new to say. Nothing. At least with Trump it's entertaining. Hillary is about as entertaining as tertiary syphillis. We Brits have no real interest in the US election apart from entertainment value.


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## JonFairhurst

Well, there's this, which was uploaded months before Trump failed to reject support from David Duke (former grand wizard) and the Klu Klux Klan - during Black History Month, no less.



Given that Trump has never held elected office, why in the world would he seem like the best? On what measure? His ability to lie?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-check-errors-exaggerations-falsehoods-213730


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## chimuelo

Well this video just sent 500 more people to vote for Trump.
He is Sebastian Shaw, the Marvel Comic character who grows stronger every time you hit him.
The fact he has never held office is why people want a General Foreman to come in and fire people, yell at them, hurt their feelings, threatening their futures...

This is life in the real world, it's time Washington free loaders get a taste of what we live like, see how we are effected by their, laws since they never feel the pain.


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## juliansader

JonFairhurst said:


> Well, there's this, which was uploaded months before Trump failed to reject support from David Duke (former grand wizard) and the Klu Klux Klan - during Black History Month, no less.


I found the interview here:

I think Trump's answer was perfect: How can he disavow people that he know nothing about? (Or, in this case, a person that Trump couldn't quickly recall during the interview.) Should he trust the interviewer that the person in question is a bad, bad person? In any case, Trump did disavow David Duke immediately thereafter.



>



Nothing in this video sounded racist to me. Perhaps factually mistaken, but not racist. Do well-educated blacks have an advantage in the US labour market? That is a factual question. Are illegal immigrants on average more likely to be criminals? Again a factual question.


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## NYC Composer

Very few people believe Trump's lack of knowledge about David Dukes, as he was quite a well known public figure, a member of an organization known for lynching black people for crimes such as speaking to white women's or being "uppity." Trump's calculus was whether or not to possibly alienate the crazed fringe racists that are part of his constituency. He went into disavowal mode after the harm seemed worse than the good, but he was quite casual about it. He made no strong statement showing disgust for violent archetypal racism, which in fact he started his campaign with.

Are white Trump voters undereducated? That is a factual question. When Trump talks about "taking back our country" is that actually dog whistle coded language for "enough with black people and Hispanics, this country was formed BY white peoples FOR white people and white people need to take the power back in OUR country?" That is a factual question.

This idea of "factual questions" is nonsensical. Here's another one "how long have you been beating your wife?"
Questions that begin was assumptions aren't objective- instead, they tend to be directed and provocative.


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## Soundhound

It’s a terrific question, to which there will be varied answers. There’s Jimmy’s answer, which as always is pure poetry, with the wild vacillation between and interweaving of powerful insight, pure imagination that goes with the territory. Partly truth, partly fiction, a waking contradiction, to coin a phrase.

My take, as someone who lived through Trump’s appearance and long tenure in New York culture as the single most repulsive person any of us had ever laid eyes on, is that he has no politics, he’s pure id. He’s a con man through and through, a snake oil salesman. He has that genius of being able to size up a room and suck up to the people who need to be sucked up to while bullying those who will bend over.

Trump is, and always has been, omnivorous. Nothing is ever enough. No matter how many failed businesses he leaves in his wake, he is always convinced that he’s the smartest guy in the room.

Apparently he’s had running for office on his to do list for some time, and he saw an opening for this year I guess. What he’s done is hold up a mirror to the Republican party and created a cartoon version of the kind of people that party has been putting in office for the last generation. I don’t think he’s a racist, but the Republican party is full of racists. I don’t think he’s a warmonger, but the Republican party is full of warmongers. I don’t think he’s homophobic, but the Replubican party is full of neanderthals who think that calling Hillary Clinton and/or people who support her dykes is funny. They are a small minded, primitive lot, and he knows exactly how to talk to them. He could care less about working people, but the country is full of people who have been fucked over by the radical right handing government over to the interests of big business. And so he is a populist.

So he mashes all that up and serves it as red meat to the racist, homophobic, low information right wing base. And they love him for it. He’s a cult figure now.

Listen to him talk. He never, ever says anything substantive. He couldn’t if he wanted to, he doesn’t know anything, about any issue. He just figured out a few sales pitches that would light a fire under Fox News watchers: build a wall, through the illegals out. They’re not policy stances, they’re top ten hits, SNL catchphrases, Super Bowl commercials. It’s all nonsense, I doubt he’s thought about any of it except in how it will sell.

You’re absolutely right, people like Rubio and Cruz and Kasich et al are far to the right of wherever Donald Trump’s actual politics might be. Though since he doesn’t have any principles it would be impossible to gauge it.

All he’s done is give voice to what the right wing has really been thinking in the Reagan/post Reagan era. I don’t think he believes any of it, but the right wing is tearing their hair out, because it’s all supposed to be dog whistles: you’re never supposed to SAY that shi*t!! Everybody knows that you’re supporting their fear of black people and disgust at gays, but you can’t come out and SAY it!!!!

It’s sad and awful and embarrassing and horrifying. And it's truly hilarious. Except if he became President. That wouldn’t be hilarious. But the big money isn’t gonna let that happen.





juliansader said:


> As a non-US citizen watching the spectacle of the US primaries, could someone please explain to me why Trump is so often described a racist/bigot/hater, even here on this forum? As far as I can gather from what I see on TV:
> - Gay rights: Cruz is an enthusiastic member of the death-to-gays crowd. Hillary was against gay marriage a few years ago. Trump is fine with gays.
> - Women's rights: Rubio and Cruz are both stringently against abortion rights. Trump used to be pro-choice some years ago, and even dared to defend Planned Parenthood during the primary debates.
> - General human rights: Hillary and Obama cow-tow to Saudi Arabia and Islam in general, despite Islam being one of the vilest, most oppressive ideologies even invented. Trump dares to speak out against Islam.
> 
> Looking at the primaries and all the candidates from far across the ocean, Trump seems to me to be the best candidate.


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## JonFairhurst

Generalization by race is racism.

And anybody who is unfamiliar with David Duke fails Black History Month and must pass Black History Summer School in order to graduate.

Trump lied the next day, saying that he didn't hear the name due to a faulty earpiece. The fact is that he repeated back "David Duke" more than once in the interview. He also says, "I know nothing about white supremacists." Wrong answer. The correct answer is, "I stand strongly against white supremacists." It's not so hard.

Later in the interview, Jake Tapper says, "I'm just talking about David Duke and the KKK here, but..." And Trump responds, "I don't know... honestly... I don't know David Duke. I don't believe I've ever met him..." The earpiece was just fine. He clearly heard David Duke's name. He clearly heard "white supremacists." The context was clear, so it wouldn't be so hard to hear "KKK". The only way a politician doesn't condemn white supremacists in this interview is if they don't want to offend white supremacists.

You can hear the response the next day at 1:48 here.
http://www.today.com/news/donald-trump-kkk-non-answer-very-bad-earpiece-made-it-t76661

He said that he disavowed David Duke defensively - in a way that clearly showed that he knew who David Duke was. He said nothing about the KKK, white supremacy or racism. 

Those who don't believe he's a bigot simply don't want to admit that he's a bigot.


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## juliansader

I am not convinced by "reading between the lines" and "dog whistle coded language". Are there any examples of Trump *actually* doing or saying something openly bigoted, racist or hateful? 

As an example of open hate and bigotry, feast your eyes on Ted Cruz and his pastor:




> Are white Trump voters undereducated? That is a factual question.


That is indeed a proper factual question. And a (partial) answer seems to be that Trump also handily beats his Republican rivals when it comes to college-educated Republican voters.



> When Trump talks about "taking back our country" is that actually dog whistle coded language for "enough with black people and Hispanics, this country was formed BY white peoples FOR white people and white people need to take the power back in OUR country?" That is a factual question.


I thought he was referring to hard-working Americans taking back the country from lobbyists and special interest groups?



> This idea of "factual questions" is nonsensical. Here's another one "how long have you been beating your wife?" Questions that begin was assumptions aren't objective- instead, they tend to be directed and provocative.


The example that you give is called a "loaded question" (that is, a question with a false or disputable presupposition hidden inside), but I do not see the relevance to Trump's purported bigotry/racism/hate? When Trump says something provocative, he is very direct. Trump's equivalent would be to state very openly: "I accuse you of beating your wife! I am going to stop you by building a wall! Make America great again!"


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## Nick Batzdorf

Exactly what Soundhound says. The difference between The AH I Won't Name and the rest of that party is just that he's cruder. They've been appealing to the unwashed masses for years, and now that they're suffering (unnecessarily)... you know the line: the people are revolting.

The reason I say they're suffering unnecessarily is that the way to get rid of a demand crisis and put everyone to work is very simple: spend the damn money to create the demand. Instead the party of plutocrats has given us deficit reduction in the middle of a depression. Morons.



> As a non-US citizen watching the spectacle of the US primaries, could someone please explain to me why Trump is so often described a racist/bigot/hater, even here on this forum?



Because he says disgustingly racist/bigoted/hateful things?



> As far as I can gather from what I see on TV:
> - Gay rights: Cruz is an enthusiastic member of the death-to-gays crowd. Hillary was against gay marriage a few years ago. Trump is fine with gays.



Being against gay marriage a few years ago is different from saying you want to build a wall on the Mexican border, saying you won't allow Moslem people in, accusing black people protesting in your rallies of being hoods, treating women badly, and on and on.

And by the way, who says Cruz is less dangerous? The AH I Won't Name's crowds are more dangerous, but they all suck. Kasich is also a turd. He says things that make sense occasionally, but you only need to know that he wants to defund Planned Parenthood and that he wants a balanced federal budget (which of course would be a freaking disaster).



> - Women's rights: Rubio and Cruz are both stringently against abortion rights. Trump used to be pro-choice some years ago, and even dared to defend Planned Parenthood during the primary debates.



And your point is...?



> - General human rights: Hillary and Obama cow-tow to Saudi Arabia and Islam in general, despite Islam being one of the vilest, most oppressive ideologies even invented. Trump dares to speak out against Islam.



Well, if you believe that bigoted hate crap about a couple of billion people, then of course your conclusion is going to be that other bigots aren't bigoted.

Yuck.



> Looking at the primaries and all the candidates from far across the ocean, Trump seems to me to be the best candidate.



Thank goodness there's an ocean between you and one of our voting booths if that's what you think.


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## Nick Batzdorf

> I am not convinced by "reading between the lines" and "dog whistle coded language". Are there any examples of Trump *actually* doing or saying something openly bigoted, racist or hateful?



Yes there are. All three, and I listed them above.


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## Soundhound

Think about it this way. The country is a 25 year old Ukranian model, and Trump wants to get her into bed. The thing to remember about Donald Trump, is he doesn't mean anything he says. Ever. He says whatever he thinks he needs to say at that moment to get over. If he thinks saying we should build a wall the length of our border with Mexico will make noise and get him noticed, he'll say that. If he thinks he needs to say he doesn't know who David Duke is, he'll say that. 

Using Donald Trump and the word integrity in the same sentence is preposterous, but the best way I can describe it is that he has none. Zero. He is absolutely consistent. If George W Bush had an 8 on scale of 100 (I'm being nice), Trump has 0. If Christie has 4.3, Trump has 0. It reminds me of George Carlin's (or was it Pryor's?) routine about advice to a guy whose wife catches him in bed bed with another woman. Deny it. With the other woman sitting there in the bed. Deny it: I don't know what you're talking about, you're nuts, what woman? Listen to Trump talk about David Duke. He doesn't care that anyone knows that he's lying, because a salesman never ever lets that get in the way. It's entirely beside the point.

He is a shyster, a con man, no more and no less. There is no there there. Except for an infantile megalomaniac who wants his tits and ass and giant pink marble tower, and he f*cking wants it now. He is posing as a politician, he's just playing one on TV, and it's a big freaking hit.


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## chimuelo

Americans want a new system, this change will be painful.
If Trump succeeds this will happen. It makes Americans feel they have a voice.
Right now they know Multinational Corporations, billionaires and foreign Governments make the laws.

More importantly Sanders had little chance of beating the globalists he faced.
However he did show millions of young Americans how the system really works.
Now they know the truth. His cause was also ours.

These 2 candidates do not have Super PACs. This means nobody owns them.
This pleases Americans who know they are lied to, and cheated out of their voice.

Trump has exposed the real rulers of the GOP Crime Family/Law Firm
He appears to be winning and every time he is attacked he grows stronger.
People see this and feel as though they have someone fighting for them.
He can say the most vile crude things knowing the media will give him free air time.

Our Moderator Nick is the smart one here, he will not even mention Trumps name.
If the media did this Trump would have been out of this race long ago.

But Trump knows how to win against these lawyers as they are frozen by an unwritten set of rules.
Political correctness. If they even attempt to be politically incorrect they are exposed as fake.
Rolling over these mouthpieces of the billionaires is more fun than it is difficult.

Now that Bernie has failed to slay the Dragon when he had the chance, it's Trump versus the world.
I actually think the world will win.
But look forward to him exposing even more truths we are not allowed to hear.
We will see more phone numbers, more emails exposed, the real powers that stole Americans voices.

I don't care who wins, I don't rely on international trade deals, or free food and clothes to survive.
But showing newer generations who really runs the country is what's important.

My guess is they will be smarter than we were.


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## NYC Composer

Didn't you say that economics once forced you to live in a shelter for a short time, Jimmy? If I'm misremembering, forgive me-no insult intended.


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## chimuelo

First divorce.
Didn't want my first son to move into a new apartment and lose his freinds.
Paid for the house, new car and other needs.
Could not do it and have another place of residence until locking down a suck ass job that paid good money.
So yes, moved into a Shelter, rented a locker, used their showers and slept with snoring drunks for 5 bucks a night.
After 6 weeks I split the scene.
Catholic Charities, those Christian profiteers provided this.
They called it the working mans program.
I called it the battered mens shelter....

Is this a gotcha question?


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## G.R. Baumann

chimuelo said:


> My guess is they will be smarter than we were.



Hopefully!

Today, the chap who cleans the chimney came to my place, I guess he is in his mid 20s. I know..... just bear with me.

We started some small talk, and this quickly developed into a conversation about US reaching an all time M2 high of $ 12418.30 bln in January of 2016! Now that was a surprise, the chap was very well informed about finance and banking, and it turned out that he taught himself what is happening in the world. 

FED/ECB policies, Trade agreements, the right wingers success in german elections, Trump, Snowden, Assange, and more. To my surprise he read a couple of books from Chomsky already.

This was a pleasant surprise and is indicative of a new generation that is informed not only by the corporate media, but chose other forms of information as well. I do not think that he was your average mid 20s, on the contrary but more and more people wake up to the reality of central bankers and a political class that has sold out democratic principles to extreme fundamentalists.

The democratic deficit never was any more significant than today.


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## NYC Composer

Jimmy- not at all. I'm just curious about the "free food" bias. Sometimes everyone needs help, eh? Like my mother who was left with three kids under 12 when my father died. She went to work, but things weren't easy and S.S. helped.


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## chimuelo

Social Security programs are the best safety nets we have.
But I do not think giving people EBT Cards, when they are not parents to supplement their income is wise.
That jeopardizes the programs for others who really need them.
Refusing a full time job because it pays less than a 24 hour job after adding in the free food and cigarettes.
I realize this gives Liberals and Conservatives lower unemployment numbers, but also drives down Labor participation rates.
Now they can brag about 5% unemployment in yet another con job on their Sheep.


And GRBaumann.
I never forced my boys to learn anything other than areas where they showed interest.
I didn't want them to work 2 full time jobs as I did and I knew there was a better path.
They read real hard cover books since they were young. I always demanded they master XBox too.

Both will be fine and can survive any Liberal or Conservative trade agreements.
Sent them to private schools, not as much as I would have liked but it paid off.
I feel sorry for young indoctrinated less fortunate kids though.
They are taught to borrow money from Liberals and Conservatives for an education that isn't even as good as my high school education.

Young kids in their 20s are so much fun to be around.
I spend time chatting with kids in their 20s at the clubs I work at.
My job is where they come to unwind.
I try to teach them how to score chicks, what gear works and sounds better.
They are fascinated with discrete audio which really makes me happy.

They only need to pack real gear around more like a man instead of these mamby pamby laptops with cheezy synths.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Hey Chim, a third of the people on food stamps work full-time.


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## chimuelo

Too bad too.
Liberals had the super majority.
Minimum wage increases would have taken 1 day.
When you don't want something to pass you wait for some opposition.
People who are hungry don't have the luxury for such brilliant strategies.


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## G.R. Baumann

Since 1979 US poductivity growth became decoupled from workers compensation, as a result, wages stagnated. Wealth and income inequality was created deliberately. It is what I personally call financial fascism.

It has to be understood in context with deregulation, page 1+2, nice and compact overview: http://cepr.net/documents/publications/dereg-timeline-2009-07.pdf


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## chimuelo

Jimmy Carter proposed this...?
Well the peasants were not allowed to see such documents back in the early days of wealth redistribution amongst the rulers and their friends.
My first vote was for Reagans 2nd term as I wasn't old enough.
But I only did what the Labor Unions and Musicians Union asked members to do.
We made such good money right out of high school nobody was really worried about bills and laws.
We tried to avoid breaking laws.

Now days we watch our leaders breaking laws over and over so it's confusing for young folks to understand why this happens.
Us older cats we are used to it now, numb from watching it.
Depends what the definition of Is Is I suppose.
The Heroin I bought last week was not marked illegal at the time I purchased it.


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## NYC Composer

...and we went into Iraq because they had "weapons of mass destruction."

It's funny Jimmy- 99% of your examples of boondogglery are by liberals. If you would just call yourself a conservative it would be fine, but you present yourself as "objective." Curious.
Maybe you're part of Bill O'Reilly's "No Spin Zone."


----------



## G.R. Baumann

It was known to a larger public from the early 80s onwards. The policies were no secret.

In 2009 the average CEO pay was 185 times higher than the average workers pay. - I remember an interview in the german paper Die Zeit with the Mercedes Benz CEO who made a statement that he considers CEO pay higher than 20 times unethical. - From 2007-2009, right smack in the middle of the austerity cult, Wallstreet profits went up+720%, while unemployment rate went up +102% and american home equity went down -35%.

Fact is, since 1979 there was nothing but an upward redistribution of income and wealth in the USA.


----------



## NYC Composer

That's how it works when you're allowed to make insane profits and the government covers your losses, Georg. A win-win for the finance boys.

One thing I didn't realize til I read your article- I didn't know Glass Steagall had been eroded-I thought it had just been repealed all at once.

Mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps were a deadly mixture for Main Street but an enormous profit center for Wall Street, and the music is still playing.


----------



## chimuelo

The music always plays for those who purchase legislation, and the salesmen involved in the negotiations.

And of course I am a Conservative Larry, I raised 2 families, I have to be held accountable for my actions as people suffer if I do not live within my means.
But I am not a Conservative politically speaking as that word is a contradiction in terms.

The reason I bash wealthy Liberals is because their laws and interference in my life have a direct impact on my family's standard of living.
From the Kenneth Star days through the Bush administration I bashed Conservatives as they wasted the surplus handed them by Clinton, and removing Hussein was a hoax. Trump said so years ago, Hillary wanted in on the action.
She was wrong, so she is a sexist and a racist as she always goes after Arab men.....

I voted for Liberals since Union Democrats were becoming a rare species in 2004-6.
And ever since they started allowing people into my neighborhood with Zero money down and no skin in the game I have been bashing their incompetent programs.
They still are in power after 10 years even though fake Conservatives have the numbers, they are passing Trade Laws I spoke up about here years ago, and spending more than they take in even though the criminals who prosper from American debt still have their jobs on Wall Street, and actually pay Liberals huge sums of money for campaigns, and 30 minute speeches.

As far as Trump being a bully, he knows it, so do we.
The Clinton's are bullies but pay Blumenthal and his "associates" to do their dirty work so what difference is that.
To me that's the ultimate bullying as you can stay above the fray and not get your hands dirty. That's Mafia style.

Blumenthal still ended up working for the Clinton's in Libya. This was after he was denied a job at the State Department. 
He made it out alive though as his security detail was more robust than what our Ambassador had. 
I suppose the Foundation was more important than loyal endangered public servants. They are expendable.

In the Congressional elections coming up I plan on removing any "Conservative" who voted for helping Banks in 2014 and who voted for the Trade law. Just look at the costs of those 2 bills to taxpayers and show me where the slightest bit of conservatism is. There is none, that's why it's a contradiction in terms. But if you're mad at me, I will help you through the grief and travel back in time, post Iraq, and discuss history again. Liberals are making life miserable right now, so they get the bulk of my attention. The very thought of paying them protection money just to open a business makes my backside sore.

Just curious, let's assume the World Banks, Multinational Corporations, and global billionaires win this election, does that mean the Clinton's will have 2 Presidential Libraries for laundering cash?
I am so glad they will be the ones helping Americans fight wealth inequality.....


----------



## chimuelo

Tell you what Larry I will bash the fake Conservatives today as I am really pissed off about these stupid grade school playground games with the SCOTUS appointee.
Beings a moderate I always like seeing people obey the laws, and if they feel it's time to change them, then change them.
The Justice Obama put in there is his best choice yet.
The other 2 appointees are obviously political, one was an activist which is not a good idea, as she has to recuse herself from certain cases, meaning these "Law Professor geniuses" aren't as smart as they think. 
But a moderate with years of service, even quit a lucrative private law firm making big bucks to serve.
What a perfect choice to show Americans that on occasion the children we elected can grow a brain for a few weeks.
Kelly Ayote, Nicki Haley and Suzzanna Martinez are a few Republicans I actually find myself in agreement with.
Maybe the GOP needs more women, or men who have served their country prior to having decades long careers selling legislation.

No need for the grief counselor now...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

"The deregulation started under Carter, but where it really came home to roost was with the smashing of the air traffic controllers union in 1981." - quote from a labor economist I interviewed for an article I'm just now submitting.

***

Chim, occasionally some Republicans say things that make sense. But it's so rare as to be notable when it happens, and those women are still associated with the party that denies man-made climate change and wants to cut spending in the middle of a depressed economy - so they can lower taxes for the plutocrats who bribe them. And that's just for openers.

Sorry, there is no center. You're either not Republican or you have flawed powers of reason (and/or a number of other negative issues). It doesn't matter how many times you post that liberals in government are equally plutocratic/oligarchic. They're nowhere near as bad.


----------



## Soundhound

Michigan's governor Snyder is the poster boy for the modern Republican party. The concept of running government as a business was an infantile, revolting, ignorant idea when it gained popularity in the 80s, and has proven ruinous. Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, Boehner, these aren't serious people, they are ideologues and the puppets of big business.

The Democrats' flaw is that they didn't stick to their guns, they were cowed by the assinine right wing, which has come very close to destroying this country. Our roads are crumbling, it's starting to look like a third world country, thank you Republican party. This was a great place and you completely f*cked it up.

As bad as they are at governance, as devoid of understanding, intelligence and responsibility in all aspects of public service, they are far worse at politics. They gained and stayed in power by appealing to fear, racism, intolerance and hatred. Without it, they would have been sidelined into obscurity long ago.

That reprehensible faustian bargain has now resulted in the inevitable. The Tea Party, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are metastasized tumors coming home to roost for the Republican party. The party's destructive, myopic, greedy, ideologically driven agenda created Donald Trump, and he is exactly what they deserve.

Pray to god that we all don't wind up having to deal with him.


----------



## chimuelo

You're right Nick, they're just richer and rarely get prosecuted or caught.
Having them help us fight wealth inequality is most reassuring. 

And climate change is real I agree.

Early man burned fires everyday and every night. Yet he didn't realize until his cities were consumed by rising Oceans and Glacial melt that he was responsible for the excessive CO2 that caused over 100 feet of melted water to bury entire civilizations. 
Why didn't they write about CO2 on some stones so we could stop this?

Thankfully modern industry used a special type of CO2 that slowed down the glacial melt until recently.

I just hope we don't pollute earth as much as those early savages did as they had 8 inches of water rise every year, much worse than what we have.

Cavemen and Neolithic man had the most dangerous industrial revolution in history.
I hold them responsible to a certain degree too.

Good news is there's still time if we tax everyone more money and reverse the damage done.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

I forgot, Chim. You're one of those guys who believes it's all a plot by Al Gore to add another wing to his mansion.

Sorry, my bad.

***
Soundhound, what worries me is that even if this monster doesn't win, a) we'll get someone just as bad or worse next time (last time it was Sarah Palin), and b) I'm scared that it won't be possible to put the racism back in the bottle.

Maybe in reverse order. B is scarier.


----------



## Soundhound

Hadn't thought about that. I've been saying that during my adult lifetime the republicans have consistently nominated someone worse each time. As Sam Kinison and Libby Gelman Waxner both said, every time you think it can't get any worse, you are proved wrong. Reagan, George W Bush, Sarah Palin. Donald Trump. It starts with a no brain actor and ends with a no brain con artist. The thought of someone worse than Donald Trump is chilling.

My only thought is that 8 years of Clinton, followed by 8 years of Elizabeth Warren, with the Senate and Supreme Court out of the hands of the radical right (they've gerrymandered and voter suppressed the House into their hands for a generation it looks like) things might just start to turn around.

>>>
***
Soundhound, what worries me is that even if this monster doesn't win, a) we'll get someone just as bad or worse next time (last time it was Sarah Palin), and b) I'm scared that it won't be possible to put the racism back in the bottle.

Maybe in reverse order. B is scarier


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey, let's not forget about the possible Cruz-i-fix!

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/17...cy-team-makes-him-as-extreme-as-donald-trump/


----------



## G.R. Baumann

From quite a distance to the US now, I lived there for a few years myself, I think Europe and USA has in common that we are politically fragmented people with some very strange dudes creeping up on us from the extreme right spectrum. 

Put it this way, I am 54 now, and I remember when I lived aborad that I read about Neo Nazi's having a demonstration in Berlin, with police forces protecting the demonstration. Now, this was about 25 years ago. 

Since last sunday, these people are sitting in three county parliaments in Germany having reaped 2 digit election results. In one particular county, they got more than twice the numbers than social democrats.

I followed the post 2008 events very closely from many perspectives. All these events, nazi's, banksters, corrupted politicians, cutting down of civil rights, unleashing dogs of war, millions of refugees, global "free" trade scams, NSA, GHCQ, you name it, most of them were already known in one or the other form, and all of this was pretty much foreseeable or had been written and warned about in no uncertain terms already.

As for Europe, some people try to come up with something else. Whether this will be successful to certain degrees or not, no one knows for sure, but in my opinion it is worth a try. I joined them yesterday.

http://diem25.org

P.S. As fellow musicians around here, Brian Eno, who joined as well, composed the Anthem.


----------



## chimuelo

The politicians are brilliant with their race strategies and data bases.
They can go just far enough to piss people off, then after it's over everyone realizes they were scammed again.
It's forgotten in days.
Trumps gamble is a little more dangerous, but the once Liberal only weapon of "racism" seems to be working to his advantage.
Personally I find this fake racism shit dangerous and stupid.

Remember just 8 years ago Speaker Harry Reid was called a racist, Joe Biden was a racist and Bill and Hillary were racists.
Days after the Obama win, these racists became Head of State Department and the Vice President.

Liberals will use this race tactic again but the problem is Trump has beat them to the punch.
Now when you call Trump supporters racists, he just gets more supporters.

Meanwhile Russia is leaving Syria after beating the Rebels using weapons from Libya funneled through Turkey.
Rather than just say OK we fucked up and our guys were crushed by Russians who fight wars to win, they have shifted their distraction over to tell Americans they have come to a conclusion that ISIS is committing "Genocide." 
Ya' Think.....this study took how many years...?

Russian newspapers are having a great time playing Hillary barking. 
I'm quite sure they want Hillary to win too. 
But what will really be a pleasure is watching the contortions Joe Biden will have to go through to support Hillary this year.
Maybe he'll give that "They're going to put Ch'all back in chains" speech again.
It doesn't get much better than this...


----------



## Soundhound

Fake racism. Uh huh. The fact that Obama is black had nothing to do with the rise of the Tea Party. Nothing. That was purely based on policy disagreements with the Obama administration. 

Anyone who believes that could also fall for the idea that Donald Trump would be the man to lead the nation to a brave new, egalitarian system. 

Both of those thoughts are so deeply divorced from reality, kind of hard to know where to start...


----------



## chimuelo

Why do you White folks insist on saying the President is Black...?
Do Liberals want to be victims and create victims so they can game the system, instead of sticking to the facts or the truth..?

What advantages does Elizabeth Warren get telling everyone she's a Blue Eyed Blonde Haired Cherokee...?
Does Rachel Doezel think she has a case in her lawsuit against a school she is suing because she thinks she's black, or is it the treatment of being some kind of victim what these folks crave.

Read Obama's book, or you find it as boring as I did read the Wikipedia or other sources of information that clearly prove The President had a white mother, his white Grandparents sent him to a private school. He suffered for nothing, and rose to the top of his class. It's an American success story, so let's not cover it with more Liberal goo in the never ending quest to keep race as a tool of division.

The way white Liberals act as if the President survived the gang wars in the hood and rose to the top of his class fighting white racism, etc.etc. 
This is why Liberals as seen as liars and wannabee victims.

I guess being white makes getting into college more difficult, or you are not entitled to certain benefits of being an oppressed victim of white racists, etc.

This bull shit could gag a maggot.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Why do you White folks insist on saying the President is Black...?
> Do Liberals want to be victims and create victims so they can game the system, instead of sticking to the facts or the truth..?
> 
> What advantages does Elizabeth Warren get telling everyone she's a Blue Eyed Blonde Haired Cherokee...?
> Does Rachel Doezel think she has a case in her lawsuit against a school she is suing because she thinks she's black, or is it the treatment of being some kind of victim what these folks crave.
> 
> Read Obama's book, or you find it as boring as I did read the Wikipedia or other sources of information that clearly prove The President had a white mother, his white Grandparents sent him to a private school. He suffered for nothing, and rose to the top of his class. It's an American success story, so let's not cover it with more Liberal goo in the never ending quest to keep race as a tool of division.
> 
> The way white Liberals act as if the President survived the gang wars in the hood and rose to the top of his class fighting white racism, etc.etc.
> This is why Liberals as seen as liars and wannabee victims.
> 
> I guess being white makes getting into college more difficult, or you are not entitled to certain benefits of being an oppressed victim of white racists, etc.
> 
> This bull shit could gag a maggot.


Conversely, the way many Conservatives act (I try not to make the sweeping generalizations made by certain people) would indicate that having elected a man of color to the White House we now live in a post racial society, which is utter nonsense. Additionally, many Conservatives seem to believe that America is a level playing field where issues of race, monetary advantage and the social position of parents and friends don't matter. Statistics don't bear this out though- the greatest predictor of doing well in America is how well your parents did.
Harvard legacy, anyone? First job through a family connection? Good childhood nutrition, education, parental support, intact nuclear family?


----------



## chimuelo

To me racism is telling people you're not smart enough so let us "help" you.

What do you call taking away school choice for people of all color that want to leave a poor neighborhood and attend a private school. Is that just doing what the Union bosses ask of you for the 48,000,000 spent in the last congressional election, or is that a way to keep the poor where they live....?

To me the problem is being poor and trying to get ahead without having to pay somebody interest money.
If race needs to be injected into the equation for a better shot at getting that "loan" to acquire a certain skill set, go ahead, glad such benefits exist.
But then let's take these stupid applications for loans and jobs and add a check box saying you have only 1 parent and you're poor. Or yes, I have parents where one is this race and one is that race,..wtf does this even need to be mentioned for...?

As a person of color I was always uncomfortable as there was the "other" check box and I assumed it was meant for me.

Thankfully I decided to shovel concrete and build things as it makes me feel good to see a completed tower, and also perform in live bands since I had all of the best gigs in a major city before I was 21.
No applications for those jobs, you either rock or you suck...

No grief counselors when you lose an audition, no panel of "experts" setting new guidelines saying fat people must be allowed to dance in a Cirque Soliel show because their feelings were hurt.

I have 2 friends who are multi millionaires that grew up poorer than me, one is a black man OMG, how did he survive the throngs of white people denying him a job or access to clean water.... 
They didn't accept the shitty pay they got for being poor and decided to become self employed and promote themselves.

Maybe they should teach kids this in school instead of dumbing them down and then "loaning" them 50,000 with a 15% VIG.

So to me Larry Conservatives and Liberals are behind every problem I see, they promote every crisis, they interfere in every world affair when not needed.
If I learned anything it's how useless they really are, but did learn how to lie to booking agents.
An acquired skill when contracting lounge/Non Union work.


----------



## NYC Composer

Really Jimmy? Anecdotes? You have two multi millionaire friends of whom one is (gasp) black? This is your response then, it's a postracial society because of one friend and the mixed race President? It was always post-racial because as a person of color you worked hard and did okay? You don't see the anecdotal aspect of all of that?


----------



## chimuelo

Anecdotes....?
Stop using meaningless sentences like post racial.
WTF does that even mean? An era to describe an event that hasn't occurred...?

My only anecdote is get rid of what doesn't work.
Billionaire owned Liberals and Conservatives is a good start.

Let me hear your Miss Universe wish now....


----------



## NYC Composer

Slavery and apartheid never existed in this country? Racial prejudice is/was always a myth?


----------



## chimuelo

Maybe you should have this conversation with a white or black dude.

I know those were barbaric times but as a mixed race chap whose family came here after the Spanish American War I see no need to look backwards when so much progress has been made.
I was called all sorts of names by whites and blacks as a kid. Never bothered me. We beat the crap out of each other than become friends.
Maybe these folks should beat the shit out of each other since they obviously never grew up in a less than middle class neighborhood.
Starting off at the bottom is good Larry. Nothing but up after that.

My disdain for these 2 political groups is solely based on their tactics of division using race.
My disdain for the media is equal too as these questions about what are you, as a candidate, going to do for blacks, or for Hispanics, when it should be what are you going to do for Americans in poverty. 

So enjoy the show and when people get hurt, don't look back to the civil war era, look at these morons who want to keep division alive as it benefits their immediate need for power and control.


----------



## NYC Composer

See Jimmy, when I grew up, most of the beating went on when a group of jolly white youth beat up a black kid, and then they didn't become friends.

My parents were civil rights activists- they used me as a prop on picket lines occasionally, and I got spit on more than once. People of color couldn't get simple jobs that whites could nor rent or buy homes in most areas....and fist fights and being friends weren't part of that equation either.

Look. Poverty is largely a problem of women and children, often single mothers. When a third of black men under 25 are incarcerated at some point, nuclear families suffer. When poor nutrition and poor education are widespread in poor urban areas, when thise areas are mostly populated by people of color, when drugs pour into those same areas and offer the most employment- this isn't politics. This is statistics and simple math. This is not some Horatio Alger/pull yourself up by the bootstraps anecdotal bullshit-it's systemic, and you know it.


----------



## NYC Composer

We're just talking past each other, Jimmy. Lots of cherry picking going on.


----------



## chimuelo

True, but I admire your parents, now I understand your pride.
Try and understand why I view these 2 groups of billionaire backed lawyers as the problem.


----------



## chimuelo

How did you like the Hillary supporters pretending to be Sanders supporters starting trouble in Salt Lake tonight...?
Killing 2 birds with one stone, very shrewd indeed...
Hard to stop that kind of cash.


----------



## NYC Composer

I understand why you view party politics as divisive and often wrongheaded, even pernicious, but that's the nature of organizations. I don't believe anarchy is a good solution.

My problem is you whale away at liberals (and sure, I am one) far more often than you do Conservatives. I have plenty of problems with my liberal team, but they look positively angelic compared to the Trump/Cruz alternatives. Trump is now fomenting violence and saying that he will act as his own entire foreign policy team. Cruz has put forth a team of such vile, repugnant losers that I am once again reminded what a creepy thing he actually is. Hillary frustrates the crap out of me but looks benign next to these dudes.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

When in the post-civil rights era has a single Democrat used the Republican divide-and-conquer strategy? Do Democrats employ dog whistle crap? Of course not.

This is why your post - singular, because you've been writing the same thing 50 times a day for ten years - is so ludicrous! Does it make you feel good to say that only you see above the fray, that everyone else in the world is too dumb to realize they're being manipulated by two equally cynical parties?

If not, I don't understand why you're incapable of getting to the next sentence in your thought process, which is to look at the details of political donations. How much money is going to which candidates? Have the candidates who received that money voted for their corporate overlords consistently?

Were you to do that even superficially, you'd notice that there are dozens of Sheldon Adelsons for every George Soros, etc. 

***
Having said that, I'm dismayed by a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters, how they just jump on the bandwagon. Of course not all of them, just too many of them.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy you're not making any sense, conflating about six different ideas and coming up with a bowl of maggots that seems to be eating your brain. My was point that the real reason Tea Partiers hate Obama is that he's black. What is hard to understand about that?






chimuelo said:


> Why do you White folks insist on saying the President is Black...?
> Do Liberals want to be victims and create victims so they can game the system, instead of sticking to the facts or the truth..?
> 
> What advantages does Elizabeth Warren get telling everyone she's a Blue Eyed Blonde Haired Cherokee...?
> Does Rachel Doezel think she has a case in her lawsuit against a school she is suing because she thinks she's black, or is it the treatment of being some kind of victim what these folks crave.
> 
> Read Obama's book, or you find it as boring as I did read the Wikipedia or other sources of information that clearly prove The President had a white mother, his white Grandparents sent him to a private school. He suffered for nothing, and rose to the top of his class. It's an American success story, so let's not cover it with more Liberal goo in the never ending quest to keep race as a tool of division.
> 
> The way white Liberals act as if the President survived the gang wars in the hood and rose to the top of his class fighting white racism, etc.etc.
> This is why Liberals as seen as liars and wannabee victims.
> 
> I guess being white makes getting into college more difficult, or you are not entitled to certain benefits of being an oppressed victim of white racists, etc.
> 
> This bull shit could gag a maggot.


----------



## chimuelo

Well maybe Tea Party folks want the President to be black as much as the Liberal victims need him to be black.
Either way it's a false narrative.
He's mixed race, the future of America, eventually the future of the world.

In Germany I have 2 friends for life who are mixed race. American GIs had to have some trim while over there in the 60s>today, but I don't see Germans wanting to refer to them as being black.
But there is a name they call themselves that I always laughed about.
They say jokingly they're from the Schwarzvalder.
The one guy is a great Pianist too, always toured with Hammonds and Moogs.

It just drives me nuts sometimes to hear half truths being promoted as a truth for some sickening political gain.
For decades we taught kids in school that Columbus discovered America.
Columbus wasn't a white European, and America was discovered by Indians.
But Hollywood movies were always white guys and Indians, Mexican American actors had to use white names.
All of this has finally changed and it was just the natural way things work.
No need for a Government panel to take action, people took care of the truth by their own means.

Now 50 or 60 years later such "appearances" of half truths seem to be trending purely for political gain.
If white Liberals and tea party folks are so guilty or so hateful this clouds a persons judgement and should disqualify them for being any kind of role model since they can't speak the truth.
Lots of Hispanic and black Tea Party folks too, do they hate Obama because he's "Black" or is this just more Liberal drivel...?

My beef is that people who need some kind of jive ass crap to get a point across must not really have a point at all.
Senator Warren is being groomed by the wealthy whites as we speak.
Will she still be a Cherokee Indian when Hillary agrees to make her Vice President...?
If Americans want an Indian to be the Vice President that's cool with me, but why use a white person with a guilt complex or identity crisis. There's plenty of authentic Indians in public office now, cuter too, why not go recruit them and get rid of all Names of Helicopters and sports teams.

The more a person analyzes these 2 groups of folks who make a career off of tax payers, the more we see privilege, lies and pure hypocrisy.
They are selected for us, and are Americas best liars backed by the richest folks in the world.
If I can handle the truth, I'm quite sure our little darlings struggling in oppressive white America can do the same....


----------



## Soundhound

Are you missing the point purposely?


----------



## NYC Composer

So personally, I want to see a Trump/Cruz cage match. It's down to the wives now, and machismo must be served. I think Trump would win based on bulk, but if Cruz ducks and weaves, the Donald will likely run out of gas quickly. Anyway, I think they'd both look cute in WWF getups.


----------



## chimuelo

Boring but brilliant the way Trump has destroyed the GOP and forever changed the landscape.
Political correctness no longer exists.
The real cage match starts soon.
There's no preparing a candidate for that type of debate.
We need to hear from the ladies though, they have been hiding behind their hubbies.
Wall Street Journal vrs. Penthouse....
Melanie naked......nice.


----------



## NYC Composer

Come on, you wouldn't like to see them duke it out? I mean, honor has been besmirched!

I so wanted l'Orange to reply when Cruz told him to lay off his wife. See, the correct reply to that was "or what?". Then we could have moved on to the cage match.


----------



## chimuelo

I'm actually bored by the primary now.
I've seen enough Crap.
Want to watch the General and watch how that shapes the following 4 years.


----------



## Baron Greuner

It's going to take more than 4 years to sort this crap out.


----------



## NYC Composer

It's devolved into a cartoon. TrumpMan vs.CruzMan in IMAX. Take the kiddies.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

I can't fathom what life would be like in a Trump presidency. It horrifies me. He's just a mean, petty, vindictive bully.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> I can't fathom what life would be like in a Trump presidency. It horrifies me. He's just a mean, petty, vindictive bully.


 It might be entertaining until he blew up the world.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> It might be entertaining until he blew up the world.


Maybe so, but I'll pass on that type of entertainment, thanks.


----------



## NYC Composer

We're on the same page there, Michael.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> We're on the same page there, Michael.


Yes we are! Feels good!


----------



## NYC Composer

I agree.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Trump states that Europe is now a dangerous place. A little late to the party on that one actually. 4 Americans were murdered in the Tuesday attack. If it wasnt for some American marines on a train a while back, you'd be looking at another 200 dead.
European left wing politics combined with the total inactivity of a sterile left wing American president along with closet liberal/quasi conservatives in the UK have managed to allow this crap to continue.


----------



## NYC Composer

...and when real men take charge, they'll use the nucular option and we'll all finally be safe and secure and radiant .


----------



## Baron Greuner

I see Larry.

So in the meantime, lame duck fucks off to a Caribbean shithole and fiddles about while Rome burns. 

Fuck me Larry, Nero was a better leader than Obama


----------



## JonFairhurst

Yeah, Obama didn't start another war in the Middle East. What a loser.


----------



## NYC Composer

In all honesty Jon, he didn't help any of the ones that were ongoing or nascent either. Obama's Middle East doctrine has been indecisive.

Baron, my Baron- what would you have had him do- cancel scheduled matters of State so that the optics would have been better?


----------



## Baron Greuner

I haven seen one, not one report anywhere that doesn't name Obama as a fucking useless article. This is the kind of inactivity that results in what we have today.
No one, but no one with an apolitical stance such as myself and not bogged down by political dogma brought about by years of supporting 'your team', has anything good to say about Obamas almost 8 years of total failure.
Liberals take this kind of talk as an insult. It is not. It is because mindless support of any political party always winds up in denial.
American leadership is a basket case. You wind up with unbelievable choices from one year to the next which when you think about your population, is almost incredible. After eight years of the current administration, to say America has regressed would be an understatement.

And then you wonder in stupefied indignance, why someone like Trump, arguably a non politician, comes to the fore. Don't ask people like me, ask the people who actually live in the US why this is occurring.
And that doesn't even come close to wondering why a communist is standing for the Democrats.


----------



## NYC Composer

As someone who does live n the U.S., I'd have to say your "apolitical" stance has influenced your choice of reading materials, and perhaps not in the most balanced of ways.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Incorrect Larry. Based on over 60 years of historical and real time observation.


----------



## NYC Composer

"I haven seen one, not one report anywhere that doesn't name Obama as a fucking useless article."


But Baron- Obama's only been in office for 7


----------



## Michael K. Bain

The main reason for the rise of Trump is that he has been successful at manipulating the anger of voters. These people are mad. They're mad at Obama and the Dems. They're mad at the GOP for not doing anything about Obama. So, they latch on to the loudest angry guy in the race. But "anger" without substance does not a good candidate for pres. make. 
And they don't care what he does. They support him anyway. He mocks a disabled man, derides women time after time, starts petty Twitter wars, whines for months about Megyn Kelley asking him hard debate questions, says that his supporters are "poorly uneducated" and that they would support him even if he shot someone in the street. And he's 100% correct. They would! It's the most rabid cult following I've ever seen in politics.
Before Trump bounded onto the political scene, I thought Obama was the worst about being vindictive and petty toward opponents. But I'm convinced Trump is much worse.


----------



## Baron Greuner

You know we have poor fucks in this country that are supposed to be media pundits that sit in on these pathetic news programs like Sky Papers Review. Their knowledge is based on something like they made a documentary about tampons 15 years ago or something like that. They are so fucked up with their left wing doctrine they won't actually discuss Trump. If Trumps name comes up they go into.......instant denial. You cannot do that on mainstream tv and then blame the Daily Mail for calling you c**t the following day.
The right wing assholes that tow the conservative line, will only discuss anything that has a positive effect on Cameron's policy to stay in the EU. So Trump is an instantaneous imbecile for whatever reason is flavour of the day.
Anyone that goes into the street in say Belgium, to protest against IS attacks is labelled by the British media as 'far right'.
Anyone that goes into the street to to canvas for more immigrants instead of less, is branded as moderate.

This issue nowadays is more about what the media want, rather than balanced reporting and you wonder why you have a lot of angry people in the US. The media in the UK are desperate to stay in the EU for their own reasons. Balanced reporting was lost to this country years ago.

What Trump is absolutely brilliant at, is finding the spot that is easiest for people to relate to. Keeps it simple. True salesman style. Whereas Cameron is nothing more than a jumped up salesman Cruz on the other hand, is almost certainly a lot more dangerous than both of them put together. Hillary just says what Goldman Sachs wants her to say. The most honest is Bernie. But Bernie and his wife went to Moscow for their honeymoon so he's just an interesting throwback/sideshow to the communist era that McCarthy would have fried as soon as look at.

And yes. What red blooded American voter wouldn't be angry with the GOP when their last candidate, who should now probably keep his mouth shut, couldn't even beat Obama. Namely the total failure, Mitt Romney who seems to think he can somehow blame Trump and all will be forgiven.

The bottom line is, none of the above mentioned are Statesmen/women.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron,

I agree with some of that, but left wing media here in the States has absolutely no problem discussing the Donald, in horror, for about 12 hours a day. In a rare moment of comity, the right wing media does exactly the same. Trump has his rabid fan base, much of which appears, from his rallies, to be a low information rabble. 

What's a "statesman"? Is it someone who negotiates with disparate elements to try to move a country forward? In that case, the Congress of the United States is not comprised of Statesmen. In the case of the executive branch, is it someone who brings two parties together to negotiate for the common good? How does that work when the head of one of those parties makes the semi-treasonous statement "Our prime goal is to block any initiative Barack Obama attempts?" (paraphrased but close). 

Or is a statesman someone who leads by utilizing a cult of personality with his personal force and charisma? Mr. Trump is no Churchill, no Kennedy, no Reagan. He's a preening silver spooned rich bully boy who's smart enough to know which odious buttons to press to attain the adulation of people lacking any semblance of nuance.


----------



## juliansader

Michael K. Bain said:


> The main reason for the rise of Trump is that he has been successful at manipulating the anger of voters. These people are mad. They're mad at Obama and the Dems. They're mad at the GOP for not doing anything about Obama. So, they latch on to the loudest angry guy in the race. But "anger" without substance does not a good candidate for pres. make.


Interesting insight into why (some gay) people love Trump:




Michael K. Bain said:


> derides women time after time,


He derides anyone, men and women alike, who he feels earned his derision.



Michael K. Bain said:


> whines for months about Megyn Kelley asking him hard debate questions,


Fox News is the "research and propaganda arm" of the GOP establishment, to paraphrase Obama himself (and as everyone knows). Megyn Kelly is their attack dog and therefore fair game herself. She is not a journalist - she is a lawyer that tries to argue one side of the argument. In any case, Trump doesn't "whine" about it.



Michael K. Bain said:


> says that his supporters are "poorly uneducated"


As usual, Trump gets quoted out of context. The full quote is "We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated. We’re the smartest people, we’re the most loyal people, and you know what I’m happy about? Because I’ve been saying it for a long time. 46% were the Hispanics—46%, number one with Hispanics. I’m really happy about that. So I’m very proud of you, this is an amazing night. I love the country, I love the country."


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm utterly convinced that the 46% of Hispanic voters he won over in the Nevada primary will be reflected across the nation in the general, sweeping him to victory. Oh, and his huge gay constituency will help as well, I'm sure. I also espied a flying pig the other day.

Really , what politician doesn't "love the poorly educated"?

I might accept the idea that Megyn Kelly isn't a journalist, but then, who is, exactly? These people are prinarily entertainers shilling for the advertising dollar.

"Bimbo", "sick" and "bleeding out of her...wherever" might be acceptable speech about women in your world. Not in mine. If what you're saying is that his frat boy humor applies to more than just women, I agree. It's pretty disgusting overall.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

juliansader said:


> Fox News is the "research and propaganda arm" of the GOP establishment, to paraphrase Obama himself (and as everyone knows).



That they are, but Sean Hannity sure loves him some Trump.



juliansader said:


> He derides anyone, men and women alike, who he feels earned his derision.



Is that presidential? To carry on a twitter war with everyone who disagrees with him? Is it presidential to mock a disabled man? Is it presidential to call Carly Fiorina ugly? Is it presidential to retweet a tweet that compares a bad photo of a candidate's wife to a pretty photo of his own wife?

Good grief, this guy is just a big baby. He's got the maturity of a 13 year old boy.



juliansader said:


> Megyn Kelly is their attack dog and therefore fair game herself. She is not a journalist - she is a lawyer that tries to argue one side of the argument. In any case, Trump doesn't "whine" about it.



She asked fair questions. She asked him about the things he said about women. If you don't want to be called out on things like that, don't say things like that.

And what do you mean he doesn't "whine" about it? He's been going on and on about it since that debate. Tweet after tweet after tweet. Do you call this "not whining"?

_"Can't watch Crazy Megyn anymore. Talks about me at 43% but never mentions that there are four people in race. With two people, big & over!"_


----------



## chimuelo

Went down on Colfax Ave. today to Voodoo Doughnut Shop (the world's best) and stopped in my first dispenser for Weed.
They not only have Trump doughnuts but Trump weed, a big favorite with the brothas.
Denver is awesome.
The weed was incredible and Voodoo doughnuts have no equal.
It cost me 128 bucks for a dozen doughnuts and a cone stuffed with White Widow reefer.
100 dollars for the boot they put on my truck.
Be warned, Denverites profile out of state plates and boot you within 10 minutes of parking.
There is ZERO public parking spaces in Denver.
It's like parking in Rome where they triple park.

Trump will win so if he has hurt anyone's feelings grief counselors will replace the 44,000 lobbyists that instruct liberals and conservatives how to vote.


----------



## NYC Composer

I hope you don't get what you wish for, Jimmy. I have a very strong feeling that if you do, you're going to end up wondering "what in hell was I thinking??"


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I hope you don't get what you wish for, Jimmy. I have a very strong feeling that if you do, you're going to end up wondering "what in hell was I thinking??"


I agree. 
But I don't think Trump will win the general election, because many conservatives like me will not vote for him. If Trump is in the general election, I will vote, but will cast my vote for a 3rd party candidate. I know that Trump supporters will tell me that by so doing, I will be ensuring a Hillary win. But I tell them two things:

(1) By supporting Trump, who polls show cannot win the general, they are the ones ensuring a Hillary win
(2) I believe that Trump is evil. I will not vote for one evil person so that another evil person won't win. I've gotta go with my conscience.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I would be...........UTTerly amazed if Trump won, on even gets to the main event. There could be an establishment stitch up. But then if that happened, Hillary would win easily. She probably will win anyway, regardless of the opponent.
I'm betting on Americans voting for what most of them voted for last time and the time before that.
Their benefits.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> I'm betting on Americans voting for what most of them voted for last time and the time before that.
> Their benefits.


I agree with you.


----------



## chimuelo

People might want to thank Trump later for moving along our foriegn and domestic policy.

He brought up immigration and suddenly ICE started targetting criminals who should have been arrested and deported long ago before Americans were being raped and murdered.
He brought bombing Oil supplies in Iraq Syria and Turkey. Shortly afterwards this took place.
Trump then shamed the Unionized VA workers and they have actually been fired while the whistle blowers recieved apologies.
His comments on NATO recently saw the 2% GDP agreement agreed upon again.
And today I am reading about Nuclear arming of S.Korea and Japan being left on the table.

Trump has done more for Americans by running for office more than the last 3 Presidents have.

And definately showed Americans what a fake process we have that selects our candidates for us.

If peoples feelings have been hurt along the way,...sorry to hear about it.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yes Jimmy, people might want to thank Trump for opening up some serious questions. I agree without snarkiness.

However, if they elect him, they are morons who deserve what they get. He is low information and incurious, with no deeper understanding of issues than the very tip of the problems he presents, and has no theories or plans to solve them that make any sense.


----------



## chimuelo

Dude he isn't going to be allowed to win.

This game of allowing Sanders and Trump to adjust the ratings was decided for us long ago.
The owners of American politics just got more than they bargained for.

Relax Larry, kick back and enjoy the show.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Dude he isn't going to be allowed to win.
> 
> This game of allowing Sanders and Trump to adjust the ratings was decided for us long ago.
> The owners of American politics just got more than they bargained for.
> 
> Relax Larry, kick back and enjoy the show.


Dude, did you think Obama would win? Did you think Bush would win in a second term? This is a zero sum game, and you never know in politics. Please try to imagine this self important know-nothing shit in the Presidency. If you can relax in that scenario, bless you my son.


----------



## chimuelo

Yes I did on both counts.

When I first heard that America might elect it's first Black President I figured it was some old cat, not a Senator from Chicago who isn't even Black.
But just like the Media sold us WMD's they sold us us a "Black" President.
Low information people still use that term.

Gore actually won the election, but again, multinationals, Kings and Queens, Billionaires and investors had too much cash floating on the arms sales and new technology.
Gore had to settle with being allowed his chance to publicly sell Carbon.
Carbon is still free, but many want us to pay them for it so I can see that in the near future.

They will convince China to pretend it's in on the Climate Change cash cow.
Their citizens will overwhelmingly love it as they choke from Coal emissions and would happily give 15% of their pay.

So yes, I am a modern day Karnak, and a uninhibited Nostradumbass.
I predict Sanders will become an Ambassador to Sweden or Denmark until they run out of other peoples money, and Trump will say the most insane things possible to purposely lose.
We are already seeing this and he will talk about invading China or something really off the wall.
Then the Sheep will point their hooves to another candidate to give the process some realism.


----------



## NYC Composer

Them are some smart sheep.


----------



## chimuelo

I'm one of them.
I believed in the Bernie campaign, then the 1st debate basically showed me different.

Money buys things, super delegates like power, favors and cash to the nearest relative to avoid detection.

The conversation Trump and Clinton had a week before he decided to run makes sense to me now.

It's all good, I am a survivor. I got through Bush and Obama beating up the middle class so I'll be fine.
But they had me fooled into thinking this was all real for a while.
Felt great too, but my Wool has been sheared.


----------



## NYC Composer

Apparently it grows back periodically!


----------



## chimuelo

I shoulda known for access to 4.5 Trillion dollars in revenue elaborate multi billion dollar schemes are a drop in the bucket.
I'll just relax now and enjoy the show.

Speaking of shows did you see Batman vrs. Superman?

There's an awesome sound that made my night.
It was the low Piano notes, possibly octaves, that sounded like tuned anvil strikes were blended in.
Awesome.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Has Trump just had his Mitt Romney moment with his abortion fu..... uh statement?

Yes.


----------



## NYC Composer

Not with his supporters. They might riot!

Having seen BM vs SM. Can't wait for it to come to cable. Counting the days.


----------



## chimuelo

15 billion from our pension funds were promised to Bill that hasnt been mentioned in the filtered news media. 
Seems the AFL-CIO wants those 500 mil Solar Panels taken from the current inmate cheap labor programs.

265 billion voted on last year is going to be available in 2017.
Whoever wins gets a nice bump in growth in 2017.

Seems Obama knows the criminal investigation will end up on the DOJ desk and be buried.
Clintons must have been given the heads up as this amount of money comes with a guarantee.

Guess I could live with that.
Junior will likely move into his Aunties in Sausalito and bank a few years building the Bay Area gigs.
The Oakland Bay Bridge re mod is impressive to see at night. IBEW has 10 years on the books in Cali as of 2014. More to come as Cali and Texas always get the Lions share.


----------



## NYC Composer

One of these days you're gonna read Dark Money, Jimmy...then you can tell me more about how the lib'rals are controlling the country. In turn, I'd be happy to read a pro-Koch Klan book by a credible source.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> Not with his supporters. They might riot!
> 
> Having seen BM vs SM. Can't wait for it to come to cable. Counting the days.



The thing of it is with Trump, is he just just put his mouth into gear way before he started thinking or actually listening to the question. The question was anything but innocuous. It's the kind of question that any seasoned politico would make a no comment gesture on. Over confidence settled that one for Trump. Big error.

The supporters don't really mean anything to me; I just make judgements on what is placed before us all. Up to that point he was doing well but this will be a big setback.
Hillary and Ted just kept quiet and then came in with their inevitable comments (butter wouldn't melt in their mouthes) and downgraded Trump to junk bond status. That is the difference between politicos and business entrepreneurs. Now Trump will have to flip flop and that is just what Romney did and it killed him stone dead. With Romney though, if I remember right, it was much nearer, or even during the main event that he made a bollocks of it. Trump may just have more time to put it to bed, but it's doubtful in my book.


----------



## chimuelo

Never doubt the Big mouth.
His remarks on hypotheticals means nothing to most people.
He can spin that comment back onto MSNBC with little effort.
Besides staying on page 1 is what counts.
These remarks only appeal to the anti Trumpers.

I see 2 things here.
Sanders being too old really to win and Hillary being coronated with Warren as VP.

Notice how she cant even answer a question about who she supports.
Perfect political advice used well.

Statements like "not ruling out support for Sanders" is a sign of her desire for power.
With her you grt double whammy.
Victim woman blue eyed blonde haired Cherokee and the free stuff.

Sheep will cheer...


----------



## JonFairhurst

NYC Composer said:


> In turn, I'd be happy to read a pro-Koch Klan book by a credible source.



LOL. 

BTW, a study done by a local (Portland) software company, Little Bird, found a strong correlation of Trump and his staff's Twitter feeds with white supremacists. Fortune furthered the study by checking the other candidates. No candidate - not even Cruz - compares. I heard an interview with the founder of Little Bird and found the information to be quite compelling. He checked the twitter feed of every employee at OPB (Oregon Public Broadcasting) and nobody had any correlation to supremacist groups. Zero. (You'd think that a journalist or two might follow some radicals just to see what is happening in dark corners of the country.)

http://fortune.com/donald-trump-white-supremacist-genocide/

All hail Grand Dragon President Trump.


----------



## chimuelo

Liberals see racism in their soup.
Biden and Clinton were racists last time, this time they are great people and their racist past has been forgiven...

Trumps mouth is going to take him out, almost as if it were planned, or on a less forgiving note because he surrounded himself with yes men like MacArthur.
I used that example as I heard him use it a few times, yet he didn't remember the movie or history very well.

I'm afraid we have all been played by the global 1% and the Clintons though.
It makes perfect sense, the phone call from Bill, the support from Bill early on, too many perfect circumstances.

Sanders and Trump had it all going for themselves it seemed, but now it makes much more sense using Trump to scare the Foreign Clinton donors into coughing up huge amounts of cash.
Cruz, Bush, Rubio, none of those guys had a chance, Kasich, good Governor and served well in Congress years back, but this machine started the day Hillary took Sec. of State job.
Trump took out Bush as planned early on.

I have to admit it's an excellent example of power projection.

I actually feel that level of organization deserves the White House.

This race is over as far as I'm concerned.

I only need to see Trump fall on his sword.
I bet he gets to build whatever he wants now so it's a win win all the way around.


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> Liberals see racism in their soup...



I see racism in economic and imprisonment statistics. I don't eat much soup. Or drink Kool-Aid.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy sees lib'rals in his soup.


----------



## chimuelo

Actually whenever I take a big shit I see Liberals.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey, even purported iconoclasts need fertilizer.


----------



## Soundhound

Donald Trump is the Republican nominee for president. Donald Trump. Yes, that Donald Trump. And Jimmy, you're pissed off at liberals.

If the supremes hadn't handed the presidency to Dick Cheney, imagine the world we'd be living in. No Isis. No 2008 crash. Stem cell research ten years ahead of where it is now (my grandfather died of Alzheimer's, my mother is showing signs, thanks W and all the primitive religious neanderthals like him, thanks a heap). Real climate change legislation. 

I repeat, Donald Trump.


----------



## chimuelo

The Conservative Super Majority in 2017 might change your mind.
We know Liberals failed the voters even after they divvied up trillions amongst themselves and thier investors.
Trump would make sure Liberal ghettos will see the money by eliminating Liberal Union bosses and local Liberal lawmakers taking thier cut of the action.
For Petes sake they already rape tax payers for 6 figure sslaries,,,how much is enough for these moochers.?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> Donald Trump is the Republican nominee for president. Donald Trump. Yes, that Donald Trump. And Jimmy, you're pissed off at liberals.
> I repeat, Donald Trump.



As if Donald Trump were actually a conservative. The man has donated and supported liberal causes all his life. He just stated the federal abortion laws should stay the same and supports



Soundhound said:


> If the supremes hadn't handed the presidency to Dick Cheney,



The Supes didn't "hand the presidency to Cheney". How many times did you want them to recount those votes? Recount studies showed that Bush would have won the undervote count and the presidency. I remember that first report, which is detailed here, along with others:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/politics/bush-gore-2000-election-results-studies/


----------



## NYC Composer

Hoping for a Cruz run, Michael?


----------



## Soundhound

We know. Bill O'Reilly starts every paragraph with we know. And he's always wrong too! 

Who is they? And you think people with six figure salaries taxes are too high? Is that what you're saying? 




chimuelo said:


> The Conservative Super Majority in 2017 might change your mind.
> We know Liberals failed the voters even after they divvied up trillions amongst themselves and thier investors.
> Trump would make sure Liberal ghettos will see the money by eliminating Liberal Union bosses and local Liberal lawmakers taking thier cut of the action.
> For Petes sake they already rape tax payers for 6 figure sslaries,,,how much is enough for these moochers.?


----------



## Soundhound

He has no politics, he never has had any politics. He's about keeping his over inflated ego bloated. You can't listen to anything he says and take it seriously, he's making it up as he goes along. This is Donald Trump for chrissake! Hasn't anyone ever read anything about this guy?



Michael K. Bain said:


> As if Donald Trump were actually a conservative. The man has donated and supported liberal causes all his life. He just stated the federal abortion laws should stay the same and supports
> 
> The Supes didn't "hand the presidency to Cheney". How many times did you want them to recount those votes? Recount studies showed that Bush would have won the undervote count and the presidency. I remember that first report, which is detailed here, along with others:
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/politics/bush-gore-2000-election-results-studies/



That election was absolutely stolen, there is not any question about it. We know it was stolen (right Jimmy?) They didn't let them finish counting the votes. Only Fox News watchers believe otherwise (that was just for you Michael, a special little gift to help your head explode. 


If the election hadn't been stolen for Bush... ah the would have beens, the could have beens... But no, Scalia and his merry band of ideologues handed it to Dick Cheney on a silver platter, and we devolved into completely unnecessary, catastrophic war, an economic catastrophe, and 8 years of deep racist hatred of the black president who was elected when the country realized how badly they had been screwed by the republicans.

And now they are nominating Donald Trump. Reaganism was always a pure and simple sellout to big business, but it had a cover story. Now Trump is blowing the cover story, because he's an idiot. And Bill Kristol is sh*tting his pants all over national television. The right wing was morally bankrupt and devoid of constructive thought. It's now criminally insane.

President Warren, (9 years from now) will put what's left of these vermin in jail. I do so love watching the repulsive right wing eat itself alive. I buy extra bags of potato chips for the show regularly.


----------



## NYC Composer

"...and who's gonna pay for the wall??" "MEXICO!!!"

"Wheel.....of......FORTUNE!!!..."


----------



## Baron Greuner

I'm fascinated by Cruz because he's a total psycho. If he wins, I feel he could represent Americans in a proper fashion for the first time in a long time. He makes me want to break into Land of the Free. Or Land of the Nukes, take your pick. Either way. GO TED! 

Update on the leaders of the U.K. No worries. Most of them are heading for Panama today.

Wisconsin tonight?


----------



## NYC Composer

"Anda now-the main event OF the evening-ladies and gentlemen, in this corner, hailing from the city so nice they named it twice..from New Yawk, New Yawk- please welcome DONALD "Mexico Man" TRUUUUMMMPPPP" :::Wild cheering, scattered boos:::

"Anda in THIS corner, , the Congressional wild child, hailing from the country of Canadia, please give a warm, cheesy Wisconsin welcome to TED "The Shutdown Man" CRUUUUUUUUZ" :::widespread booing and a few cheers from wife and daughters::::

"Gentlemen, you've received your instructions in the dressing room, I want a disgusting fight full of cheating, hitting below the belt, biting and all manners of unsportsmanlike behavior. Touch gloves and come out nasty."


----------



## Baron Greuner

GO TED!!!!!


----------



## Baron Greuner

GO BERNIE!!!!!


----------



## Baron Greuner

GO HILLARY!!!!!


----------



## Baron Greuner

GO TRUMPER!!!!!!!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Which one are you guys voting for?


----------



## NYC Composer

:::Writing in vote for self:::


----------



## chimuelo

Clinton has already been selected.
I'm just having fun watching worshippers get excited about who gives them the most free stuff.
Watching Clinton pretend she wanted 15 dollar an hour minimum wage to win over fast food workers (liberals) is more entertaining than Trump repeating himself.
I think Warren will be great as she should finish off the middle class.
Rachel Doezel from the Spokane NAACP will be VP as white victims with identity crisis syndrome will be perfect since Warren thinks she's a Cherokee.
By this time my brothas will outnumber blacks and whites so we will decide how much money goes to white and black ghettos


----------



## NYC Composer

The Illuminati have spoken then. Why bother with the fripperies.


----------



## chimuelo

Exactly.
Clinton and Warren have been selected for you.
Kick back and enjoy the provided entertainment....

Flooding Europe with Muslims and importing Central American poverty should keep Liberals world wide busy spending other people's money.

Somebody has to build those Solar Panels.
Guess they decided that Unionizing Inmates would cause endless litigation.


----------



## chimuelo

I don't mind the rigged economy and elections though.
I do fine regardless.
National Security reasons often need lies to appear real so this ic OK by me.

But thank Trump again as Obama is now pretending he has been fighting to change Tax Inversions.
Good for him.
And thanks Trump for reminding these jack offs they need to take care of their tax payers.
If we are going to be lied to and have our money misspent on politicians investors at least throw working families a bone every now and then.
After all we aren't all wealthy redistributors or poor Liberal voters.


----------



## Soundhound

The day Jimmy saw the light.


----------



## Soundhound

Ok Jimmy, full explanation, chapter and verse. The Warren part.

"I think Warren will be great as she should finish off the middle class."


----------



## Baron Greuner

American voters!!! Unite!


----------



## Baron Greuner

I love Americans. Everyone outside of America should adopt one for $2 a month. Roughly.


----------



## Soundhound

These types of videos always make me sad about the state of education in the U.S. This particular video however makes me hopeful (aside from the fact that it proves once again that the right wing can't do comedy, because, well, fascism isn't funny). The less we know about primitive superstition, the better. All these people each get 2 votes as a very special bonus from me!




Baron Greuner said:


> American voters!!! Unite!


----------



## chimuelo

Talk about the pot that called the kettle black....

Fox News eh?
No wonder yuze guys are all wound up tight.
You do realize these are staged events using SAG Waivers I hope.

Let's have the billionaires that purchase politicians run for office more often.
China just put sanctions on N.Korea thanks to Trump.
Maybe I'll start wearing a Klansmens outfit when I perform to get more respect.
Everything Trumps blames our incompetent leaders on allowing to happen is being addressed.
We really owe him some Kudos for what he's done.
Next thing you know white people won't be denied entry to colleges for being the wrong color.


----------



## Soundhound

See, I was being ironic about that video being posted, since it's from Fox News and all. Oh never mind...


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy when Trump is elected I'm assuming you'll be up for appointment as press secretary? I'd pay good money to see that, if not for the fact that we'd almost all be dead, the lucky ones eating irradiated rats cooked in the E Train tunnels.


----------



## chimuelo

No way, this cat is dangerous but the Good Cop/Bad Cop Liberal/Conservative game just got a huge boost.
Jeez, even Europeans pledged more money and cooperation in NATO.
Their scared to death of the White Racist/Supremacist/Klansman, Billionaire.
Guy is a treasure trove....

Bet I could score some serious trim dressed as Klansman, guess that style is coming back.
Have to hide my brown hands though.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump has even foreseen a recession and the economists were slamming him all week.
Then just today the IMF made an announcement verifying Trump and the market dropped 200 points, but rebounded.

I say extend the primaries into 2017 and have the general next year...


----------



## Baron Greuner

Ted reminds me of Damien. He's sort grown into what Damien would have looked like now. Go Ted!


----------



## chimuelo

He reminds me Al Lewis.
Give him a Gray wig and he could be Grandpa Munster.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Paul Ryan? PAUL RYAN??

This guy just shows up and reluctantly agrees to his coronation.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, who's the guy in your avatar?


----------



## Baron Greuner

I thought that was Jimmy?!?


----------



## Soundhound

Me too! (icon issue) Jimmy we need this corroborated. And if true, do we all have to put ourselves into our icons? I may have something from the late 70s that doesn't cause aneurysms, but that's about it.


----------



## chimuelo

That's Jaime Chimuelo, Star of stage & Screen, Obtainer of the unobtainable, etc.etc.
I tried whitening up to be acceptable by you Lib'rals since you like segregation so much.


----------



## chimuelo

Hey if Ryan jumps in as VP Cruz can be Grandpa Munster and Ryan could be Eddie Munster.


----------



## Soundhound

Nice work! Trump as Herman? His wife as Lilly? Heidi Cruz as Marilyn?


----------



## chimuelo

Romney as Hermann.


----------



## NYC Composer

You look a little different in your rehearsal studio pic, Jimmy. Mmm-a lot. So...?


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> That's Jaime Chimuelo, Star of stage & Screen,



I don't know why, but I'm kind of disappointed.


----------



## germancomponist

They all are puppets! Believe me!
Goldman Sachs & Co. diktates what has to go on!


----------



## NYC Composer

It's the Illuminati, Gunther. It was all true.


----------



## NYC Composer

With 28,000 people coming to a Bernie rally in Brooklyn, I guess it's The Year of Sanders as well.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Is it both democrats and republicans voting in New York tomorrow?


----------



## chimuelo

Yepp...
It's a New York values thing where Sanders Clinton and lying Ted all pretend they are New Yorkers.
I predict Trump and Sanders.
Nobody wants establishment candidates.
But then again the GOP and DNC don't care what voters want.


----------



## Baron Greuner

No that's right. The GOP are trying to change the rules as we speak.

Sanders for NY Jimmy? I would have thought Hillary would have won that one; unless Larry has converted NYC to outright communism? Which I wouldn't put past him quite honestly!

What?


----------



## chimuelo

Nobody wants the same rich whites lying and stealing.
But DNC and GOP are being instructed on their course of action by wealthy whites from Hollywood San Francisco and their global billionaire owners.
My assessment is honest.
The media will help Clinton.
Especially the Israeli owned media and Mexican owned NYCrimes....sorry Times.


----------



## Baron Greuner

No worries Jimmy.

Here in the UK we have a colossal, stinking pile of shit called George Osbourne who makes Hillary look like a saintly figure that should be worshipped.


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> With 28,000 people coming to a Bernie rally in Brooklyn, I guess it's The Year of Sanders as well.



Just shows you how many unemployed people SEIU has to sell for protests.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Jaime, you make conspiracy theorists look like accepting, trusting souls.

Don't ever change. There's only one of you. You're a solipsistic dream. I so admire you. The wheels on the bus go round and round...


----------



## chimuelo

Orale...


----------



## Baron Greuner

*GO TED!!!!!! GO!!!!*

*
*
Oh shit sorry.


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## chimuelo




----------



## NYC Composer

"I can't afford breakfast so I voted for a billionaire."


----------



## chimuelo

But which billionaire....Soros or Trump?


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, is Soros running? I need to change my vote.


----------



## chimuelo

Well voting for Trump is OK Larry.
Nothing to be ashamed of.
He's a big hit with the brothas....


----------



## chimuelo

OMG Trump has smoked the GOP.
I was melting from my 5th Crossfit session. 
It's a whole new respect for endurance and gravity.
I fell into my couch and checked the usual CNN Fox and saw Trump at 65%......jeez that's insane.

I guess I better give him a call.

Looking at the party I saw nothing but fine ass looking chicks.
It was like those old Playboy After Dark parties Hef use to host.

Wonder if he likes Soros or Trump?


----------



## NYC Composer

He likes Viagra. He belongs to the E.D. party.


----------



## chimuelo

I went to buy some Trump Signage as I want my racist Great Grandchildren to adorn their Windows behind their Gun racks of their Tesla electric pick up trucks with stickers.
They wouldn't even take my money from excessive traffic...site was overwhelmed.
They had clothes for kids, dogs, women's nighties....you have to visit the site.
It is so decadent....

They even have Trump Klansmen hoodies.


----------



## NYC Composer

You're certainly going to have some confused great grandchildren. 

I can see them now-"oh, that's just great grandpa-he's always like that."


----------



## chimuelo

I'm buying gifts in advance as I expect to die during Cross Fit training.....


----------



## chimuelo

The numbers in NY turnout are usually 3 to 1 for DNC as its a rather large Nanny State.
2 to 1 shows that the war on poverty has either succeeded by pushing poor people into the middle class which usually votes for more jobs as opposed to getting the rich guys to pay us not to work, or they were poor people that decided 8 years of no jobs was enough.....
Interesting but predictable turnouts.

Billionaires, Wall Street and movie stars won last night though as Hillary had 18 points more than Bernie.
You gotta admit though Bernie is so far left he makes Che look like Cheney....


----------



## Baron Greuner

What happened Ted?!?!?


----------



## chimuelo

He failed but even the Tea Party accepts cash.
Like OWS.
Once Sheep realized many Pensions and 90% of Union Pensions reside there it forced OWS to try and find a way to complain about salaries of CEOs, without revealing thier largest donors were billionaires.
Nothing better Than Sheep seen standing on 2 legs with strings attached to thier front hooves.

His hypocrisy wont fool the average New York Ewe.

Baron, he'll do great in Montana.
Thier State song is..."There'll Never Be Another Ewe."


Ankyu....


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hahaaaaha!

My God!


----------



## chimuelo

Roadside Reststops in Montana take pride in thier Theatrical & Performance venues too.
They got an award for thier production of "A Chorus Line."


----------



## NYC Composer

Ted is now fully cognizant that making one unnecessary statement can cost him a few percentage points here and there. He took a shot at Trump, missed and then got his comeuppance in the primaries. Calling 16 million people out for their "New York values" was unusually bad chess for the Tedster.


----------



## Baron Greuner

What did he mean by New Yorkers values, Larry?


----------



## NYC Composer

Tolerance and toughness, most likely. Qualities he doesn't possess.


----------



## chimuelo

No shit.

Ted thought he could bash the wealthy white Liberal elites.
Trump can bash DiBlah-Zero and Sinaloan Times......sorry......NYTimes stenographers, but no Texan is allowed that privilge without tacit authorization from thier employers, who happens to be Trump.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ya, like Texas bashing would do a guy campaigning in Texas some good. It was a no-brainer that Cruz was going to get squashed here after his ill-considered comment. His total defeat here probably effectively ended his campaign.

News flash-people don't like it when you deride the place they live because you don't like its "values". Amazing, right? Especially when you're Canadian.


----------



## chimuelo

Plus generalizations from academics or DC Trial lawyers means little to Firefighters and folks that make NYC tick.
Trump still lost Texas but did considerably well for being a Yankee.
He knew better since on occasion he thinks before speaking.
Not recently, but when he becomes President I am sure he'll learn to listen...


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Ya, like Texas bashing would do a guy campaigning in Texas some good. It was a no-brainer that Cruz was going to get squashed here after his ill-considered comment. His total defeat here probably effectively ended his campaign.



Nope. It will go to contested convention, and when it does, Cruz is the odds-on favorite now, because of his delegate work.


----------



## chimuelo

Dont worry, Trump has already indicated Carson will dismantle the wealthy Liberal Health Care program.
When rich white CEOs from insurance companies start complaining, they'll quickly be called racists, and be silenced. Use that Liberal playbook.
Then get all women impotant positions, so when Liberals start crying they will be called sexists and women haters.

Time for working Americans to have a voice.
Rich white Liberals did great over the last 8 years.

Thier minority voters got screwed, yet still believe wealthy white Liberals will lift them from poverty...?
I feel so sorry for the millions living in white owned ghettos.
Hey maybe Sharpton and Jackson are keeping quiet so Trump will grant them Section 8 contracts instead of Liberal campaign donors.

But sorry about Teddy bro.
He wont even get re elected in Texas.

Trumps going to kick the tables over.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> He wont even get re elected in Texas.



As someone who lives in Texas, I can tell you that you are dead wrong. Cruz is VERY popular in Texas.



chimuelo said:


> Trumps going to kick the tables over.



He's going to kick the tables over, all right - as he throws one of his notorious Trumpertantrums when Cruz beats him at the contested convention.

If Trump should somehow pull this out, he will get absolutely trounced in the general.


----------



## chimuelo

The only thing Cruz beats are the cocks on the Super Pac Chairmen....and he's using both hands.

And Trump will punish weaklings in November.
Millions that never vote that hate the GOP and the DNC will ensure the wealthy whites can spend another 2 billion getting their asses kicked in the general.
Everything that's wrong with America will be exposed and eliminated...

I love Texas, and Texas will love Trump.
Asta La Vista Baby....

Orale


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael, I'll make you a one sided bet. I'll bet you $5 Cruz doesn't win the nomination. If he does, I'll send you $5. If he doesn't you don't owe me anything.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> The only thing Cruz beats are the cocks on the Super Pac Chairmen....and he's using both hands.
> 
> And Trump will punish weaklings in November.
> Millions that never vote that hate the GOP and the DNC will ensure the wealthy whites can spend another 2 billion getting their asses kicked in the general.
> Everything that's wrong with America will be exposed and eliminated...
> 
> I love Texas, and Texas will love Trump.
> Asta La Vista Baby....
> 
> Orale


I got fitty on Clinton, Jimmy. You in?


----------



## chimuelo

Sure.
I only bet sure things but if she gets indicted and the Joe Biden/Blue Eyed Blonde Haired Cherokee card gets played will you consider that a loss..?
In my book that's the Trump card we should consider....no pun intended.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael, I'll make you a one sided bet. I'll bet you $5 Cruz doesn't win the nomination. If he does, I'll send you $5. If he doesn't you don't owe me anything.


Wow, you are very confident. I am, as well. I don't think you'll have to send me any money, but only because I have a bad memory and will forget by then.


----------



## chimuelo

I'll send you these now as a reminder if you pm ur address....


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> Wow, you are very confident. I am, as well. I don't think you'll have to send me any money, but only because I have a bad memory and will forget by then.


Actually, I won't have to send you any money cause he has no shot, but do you accept the terms of my wager?


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Sure.
> I only bet sure things but if she gets indicted and the Joe Biden/Blue Eyed Blonde Haired Cherokee card gets played will you consider that a loss..?
> In my book that's the Trump card we should consider....no pun intended.


Fitty on Clinton. You puttin' fitty on the Trumph?


----------



## chimuelo

Sure.

Clinton's playbook and ground game are for everyone to see.
I'm quite sure Trump knows exactly what he needs to do to win.

Then there's that 130,000,000 people who hate wasting time voting in a rigged system.

I'd say Hillary is in for another defeat.
But I think the Clinton's have lost enough elections to learn how to make money losing.
They'll be fine.


----------



## NYC Composer

Proof/pudding. Money/mouth.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry, I'm not going to get mad. I'm going to be mature about this.

The President of these United States of America is touching down here in a matter of minutes.


----------



## NYC Composer

So you're NOT going to throw Yorkshire pudding at him then?


----------



## chimuelo

These days being an enemy of the USA is no problemo.
When your Allies that's when you become very concerned.
Wonder if Obama will lecture the Queen or just the House Of Lords.
After attending Morning Prayers, late morning prayers, afternoon prayers and evening prayers in Preston where he'll find the time...?


----------



## Baron Greuner

I mean fuck me!

What on earth is a President from a country that's 5 minutes old doing telling the English that they should stay in the EU????

The mans a buffoon!


----------



## chimuelo

Cameron jumped in to rescue Obama from a female journalist who asked if he sympathized with those who want him to mind his own business..

I'm actually impressed with the President.
He went in like a new born, knowing nothing but life.
But has achieved more than anyone expected.

Admitting mistakes is commendable.

Cheney still thinks Iraq was the right thing to do.

All that aside.
I can't wait for him to leave.

Brits will hate Trump as President.
Oh well Americans love Brits.
I'll be visiting friends there on my way to Sweden in 5 weeks.

Haven't been to Heathrow in 20 years.
If it isn't illegal I'll by you a Yard of Watneys.
My Bassist would love you.
He yells at Liberals on the TV so loud the neighbors thought he was beating his wife so the cops came.
I got nervous as I had just shared some Colorado reef with my Guitarist and they were sniffing the air as they cruised through the basement.

Swedish Rock Festival....
Should be some fine trim.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Boris called your Prez a Kenyan.

Hahahahah.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron-I have an important question for you.

Cake, or...

death?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Wow!

Massive apologies to the Kenyan here.

Turns out the Prez is the puppet of Cameron. Way to go!


----------



## NYC Composer

Of course you know how we savage upstarts yearn for our Imperial overlords to take charge again.

But really-cake or death?


----------



## Baron Greuner

You're about to get your wish Larry. 

Trump!

Can really see Trump letting Cameron go over to the US and tell him how to run the place, make ridiculous veiled threats and tell him he should open up the Mexican border!


Larry?


----------



## NYC Composer

But Baron, my Baron- the days of your Imperial reign are so, so over. Empire lost is never sweet, but to try to adjust to this new paradigm with grace. Sputtering and fuming is so unseemly (not that I don't get a kick out of it).


----------



## chimuelo

Dont be so un-Nairobi-ish Larry.


----------



## NYC Composer

God Save the Prez.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry, my dear fellow (puts on condescending face when talking down to colonials) - Larry, today is the 400th anniversary of Shakespeare's death, which interestingly was also his birthday.
2 days ago the Queen had her 90th birthday, celebrating a few thousand years of monarchy and also medical advances at the same time.

Just try and remember why you morons speak the English language (or at least a vague form of it) today.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron, old chap, old son-

What a lovely collection of history you monarchists are....er...I mean have.
I'm sure I meant "have". Sorry.

Starting again-what a lovely collection of history you have. And BOLLOCKS? My word, you have bollocks the size of COCONUTS.

Sadly, that's about it- so you need allies. Big, powerful allies. Disgustingly callow neophytes, even! You swallow hard, stiffen the old upper lip and listen to our politicians natter on about what we think you should do because that's the civilized thing, yes? Then you can go back to your deeply burnished and weathered chairs, pour yourself a snifter of France's finest from the Cognac region and laugh us off...until you need us, of course.

"Morons." Such harsh words from such a hoary old culture. I'm appalled and deeply saddened. What happened to Hands across the Water? The Special Relationship? It's all faded away as if it never was. Someone MUST inform our respective leaders that's it's over. Done. Fini. Where has our love gone???

Additionally, I want to personally apologize for my misuse of your language. I do my best, but...savages. You know.

I'm off to have a cuppa and do some brooding. Cheerio.

(btw, I'm sure you're totally serious, but I'm totally fucking with you and enjoying it).


----------



## Michael K. Bain

[


NYC Composer said:


> Actually, I won't have to send you any money cause he has no shot, but do you accept the terms of my wager?


No shot? The odds are that it will go to contested convention. And anyone who follows the Republican primary at all knows that Cruz is heavily favored at a contested convention. He know what he's doing with the delegates and Trump does not.
If I understood the terms, if Cruz wins you have to give me $5. If Trump wins, I don't have to give you anything. Of course, I accept those terms!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> I'll send you these now as a reminder if you pm ur address....


Why would I want those? So that if he wins the pres., every time I took a poop, it would remind me of the reason the country continues to be in the crapper?


----------



## chimuelo

Actually they were for Larry cause his balls hang low.
But thought you might dig these.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Actually they were for Larry cause his balls hang low.
> But thought you might dig these.


Them there are funny!


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> [
> 
> No shot? The odds are that it will go to contested convention. And anyone who follows the Republican primary at all knows that Cruz is heavily favored at a contested convention. He know what he's doing with the delegates and Trump does not.
> If I understood the terms, if Cruz wins you have to give me $5. If Trump wins, I don't have to give you anything. Of course, I accept those terms!


Excellent- we're on!


----------



## chimuelo

I want to see Hillary do Slow Jam on Jimmy Fallon.


----------



## Soundhound

This is so over. The big money knows they can't have Cruz or Trump as president. A psychopath or a fundamentalist sociopath, no way to choose. Hillary's in, it's done. The great thing is after this year of the right wing finally being seen for what it is (thank you, Donald, you viagra chomping maniac), the Senate is going back to the Dems. And if the GOP convention is as much of a white power hatefest as it looks like it will be, the House could turn too. Eight years of Hillary (Warren or Castro Veep), a fully Democratic Congress and a 5-4 Liberal supreme court. Fox News and AM radio will be calling for the end times. In eight years we could have single payer health care, new roads, tidal and solar power up the wazoo, and an economy through the freaking roof. See you in eight years, muchachos!


----------



## Baron Greuner

The Kenyan flew out today.

Was it goodbye? Was it see you again? Was it Au Revoir?

No. It was fuck off and don't come back.

Carry on.


----------



## NYC Composer

Why would Obama tell the British people to fuck off? I'm so confused....


----------



## Baron Greuner

Thats basically what he tried to do. Confusion over Larry?


----------



## chimuelo

Soundhound said:


> This is so over. The big money knows they can't have Cruz or Trump as president.



The big money guys who never have thier names in the news are already meeting with Trump.
Koch and Bloomberg are pretending to support Clinton since she's been collecting cash since 2014.
But really big cats that have billions to spend want lower taxes and especially multinationals.
Of course Clinton will pretend she's going after evil CEOs and Hedge Fund managers like Biden's brother or her son n law, but we've seen the Liberal 2 step before.
Trump is the kind of guy folks can have a beer with.
Hillary had to rehearse riding on a subway before the staged media event went live.

She'll be fine though.
She gets to keep all of that foundation money, the millions for speeches.

She better hope they open up the jails and pass new laws allowing Liberal inmates to vote.
She's going to need them.

Don't worry Soundhound, you're going to like Trump.
You might even get some of 105 billion taken for home owners that lost their ass that Holder locked up in the Treasury.
I already filed my claim in 2011 through FreddyMac. Money was collected in FY2013-2015.
Trump say that's our money.
I think he's right.
Just need to remove the last remaining wealthy Liberals.
5% tax free is the rate as of 2015.
Might be more now as the last toxic assets have been balanced out.


----------



## NYC Composer

No one in Scotland wants to have a beer with the Donald.


----------



## chimuelo

Sure they do. Millions do.
They're scared of anti cree speech Liberal attack squads.
In the real world these virual tough guys reign.
In public they are beaten by thier women.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy, does it pay at all well, working for Priebus? Just wondering if there are weekends off. You're using 2000 material though, Geroge Bush was sold as the guy you'd like t have a beer with, and he basically destroyed the country. And describing ex-cons who have rejoined society as inmates? Really? Does Reince teach you no PR skills? You're appealing to the base (they had a nice rally outside of Atlanta yesterday), but losing the rest of the planet.

I'm going to be living outside of Atlanta for about 18 months btw. I'm definitely going to get shot: "Hey Gomer nice gun, is it really true, about inverse relationship between firearm and penis size?"
Blam.

Oh well, I won't have t worry about finishing those cues after all. Nice knowing you guys!


----------



## NYC Composer

Do they shoot Queens over in Blighty?

(The Royal ones, not the cross dressing ones)


----------



## Baron Greuner

No never. But they should have. They should have shot kings too.


----------



## chimuelo

Hell I only care about the 50$ bet with Larry SoundHound.

Ill be fine regardless.
I dont need some Law Firm or Crime family to make my life better.
Hillary will do fine.
Trump will do fine.
I want my 50.
Plus you know Im always right.


----------



## Soundhound

Time to shoot a president. The uniformed, bitter, terrified right wing loves them some violence, because they got the their asses ass kicked so regularly in the schoolyard. Hollywood studios and right wing politics are the homes of revenge of the nerds, profoundly and always.

I don't know you're always right Jimmy, but I am an eager and dedicated grasshopper. I do know you are a poet of extraordinary gifts and the Obi Wan of music technology. What I didn't realize until just now (I am slooooooooowwwwww!!!) is that you are an unreconstructed Reaganite.

I know there's some betting going on, and having no impulse control, I'll put $50 on Trump not beating Hillary. Not sure if that fits any of the current wagers, but I'll take all the action I can get (apologies to Nicely Nicely).


----------



## chimuelo

You think too much.
Union Tradesmen betrayed by wealthy whites as soon as they Unionized Cops, Teachers, IRS workers, TSA and evey other Union where you cant get fired.

But unemployable people deserve a job. Just dont like not being able to fire child molestors or have to pay Chiefs of Police in a town of 5000 1.2 million every year for a pension because he knew he could screw a tax payer by spiking thier pension when they in thier final year,

Thats crony capitalism
Liberals and Conservatives are the ones fucking up the USA.

When you vote for Hillary as most Liberal Sheep will do, the very same 5% make bank, just like if Jeb Bush were to win.
You just dont get it.

Poor blacks whites and hispanics will get fucked again but thats thier problem for believing wealthy white people care for them.
Once the elections over whites make bank.
Niggas spics and crackers suffer.

But like I said.
I hate seeing this but I know how to make money.

These millions of poor Liberal constituents just got phucked for 8 mo years.
For believing wealthy white Liberals again they deserve being poor.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ya, Reagan really trickled down on the impoverished. Then he shook it off and put it back in his pants.


----------



## chimuelo

So let's return to evil GOP vrs. DNC chats and watch Sheep fight over which Crime Family is really the good guys.

Meanwhile the billionaires and multinationals took out threat #1, the only real Liberal.
Then use their old favorite fake Liberal in hopes of retaining the "system" that serves them so well.
The largest consolidation of wealth in the world. 

Yeah they're really going to help the little people this time.....they swear it.


----------



## NYC Composer

Donald Trump-the savior of the little people. Mmm.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Donald Trump-the savior of the little people. Mmm.


The fox guarding the hen house.


----------



## Soundhound

It's amazing to watch working people hoodwinked into thinking Donald Trump gives flying f*ck about them. It's like running the court all game because you're sure Lloyd Free is going to pass you the ball this time. Donald Trump cares as much about and will do as much for working people as a Saudi prince. It's astonishing to watch. If it weren't for the frightening, horrific racism at his rallies, it would be hilarious. But it's not, it's sad and disgusting. And the second runner up in the Watch the GOP Finally Come Right Out and Say What They've Been Only Saying In Code For The Last Half Century is Ted Cruz. Charles Koch says he may vote for Hillary Clinton. Get ready for 20 years of Democratic rule.


----------



## NYC Composer

On the other hand, when a Koch says he may vote for a Clinton, I understand why Warren and Sanders are trying to force her to the left.


----------



## Soundhound

Absolutely. I didn't mean it was a good thing. I meant it's a n example of how insanely far right politics has moved in this country. Barack Obama is thought of as a leftist. People are deeply ignorant of what's come before. 



NYC Composer said:


> On the other hand, when a Koch says he may vote for a Clinton, I understand why Warren and Sanders are trying to force her to the left.


----------



## chimuelo

Right and left are 2 views pushed by the media to give a sense of realism for the Sheep.
Then candidates are selected for them
Now come Novenber they'll think thers really a difference.

There isnt.
The same 1% got everything the way they want and the rest of us are suppose to eat thier shit and call it Caviar.

What did Liberals get for 8 years....?
Some extea food?

Oh boy, my team is great.

Y'all a bunch of chumps working for less and loving it.

Just watch.
4 years from now you'll still be uding coupons and whing about how Cubase and Windowsvupgrades cost 500 for the period.

Well at least we got music.
Most Liberals will never own a new car.


----------



## Soundhound

Liberals have been terrible for this country. Anti trust laws, union rights, the end of child labor, the New Deal, the Civil Rights movement, the anti-war movement, the minimum wage, the fight for universal health care. Thank god your old boss Ronald Reagan and all the tumors that metastasized from him since have fought to roll back every one of those things.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm a little confused, Jimmy. Are you saying your candidate, Donald J. Trump, running as a conservative Republican, was pre-selected for you?


----------



## chimuelo

Actually I was referring to Bernie, the real Liberal in this race who might still win.
But NeoCons dont get arrested.
OTOH Trump has not been selected by the NeoCons.
Which is why they want the race between thier choices.
They aren't worried though. If an outsider wins who has 20 times more money than the Foundations Candidate, they'll just have to spend more than they usually do.
But the fact that both sides of the NeoCons picks have exposed themselves are the way they instruct the DNC and GOP on the use of delegates and Super delegates.
Now hundreds of millions can see for themselves theres no difference between the 2 law firms.
Lots of real Liberals in Hollywood are speaking out like Sarandon, DiNiro, Rosario Dawson, etc.
This has NeoCons very worried too.

They might lose thier ass if Bernie wins.
He's so far left he makes Che look like Cheney.


----------



## chimuelo

Soundhound said:


> Liberals have been terrible for this country.They are all in the 1%and have sold out the middle class while importing low wage earners and crushing small business.



Totally agree.
Which is why over the last 20 years they voted for invading Iraq.
Now they don't even vote.
They invade, and consistently fail once they're caught. Frozen by political correctness like a Deer in the headlights their opponents melt back into the population to wage war on social media.
They win there too.


----------



## Soundhound

Keep that up and your cut and paste privileges are going to be suspended young man!

Bernie didn't vote for it. And he's a social democrat, the idea that he's a radical leftist only makes sense from a very far right perspective. It does help the Reagan Revolution to blame the sins of the right wing on complicit Democrats (of which there are many). I know your point (always) is that they're in this together, but its just not (always) so. Compare how Bill Clinton handled the Balkans vs Bush/Cheney Rumsfeld first sleeping on the job during 9/11 and then proceeding to use it to push through their crackpot fratboy wet dream of remaking the middle east while making piles of $ in the process. Progressives fight to raise the minimum wage, Republicans fight to abolish it. Democrats fight for voting rights, Republicans gerrymander the shit out of districts to keep themselves in power, pass ever more restrictive voting regulations and laws to fight the entirely trumped up problem of voter fraud. A party that makes it its business to systematically limit the number of people who vote is fundamentally anti-American. Modern Republicans are fascists at heart. There is a difference.


----------



## chimuelo

Liberals are the white plantation owners who profit from the segregation they created.
Importing poverty ensures low wages and keeps the slaves in their Great Society neighborhoods.
Enjoy your wealthy white privilege.


----------



## Soundhound

Yes that was all done by Liberals, seeking liberal policies. The right wing had nothing to do with it. Is this the first chapter of your Marilyn Quayle inspired novel (yes, she wrote one called Embrace The Serpent, what is it with Republicans and repressed sexuality anyways???) or photocopies from the Heritage foundation lunchroom?


----------



## chimuelo

I want my brothas to leave Liberal ghettos and work their way to success.
I understand Liberals surround their neighborhoods with Abortion clinics.
What a crime calling it planned parenthood when it should be called the 5 million less blacks clinic.

Poor kids have Charter schools closed by rich whites who send their kids to all white private schools.
Then they brilliantly used a President claiming he's black to end school vouchers so rich whites children won't have to sit with them. Can't call him a racist, they say he's black. Even a Kenyan.

If you wants blacks and Hispanics to stay poor and stay in their Liberal owned ghettos.
Deprive them of an education.
Then they'll have role models like Kanye West and El Chapo....

Liberals will never help their voters.
Conservatives don't even try to help as they'll come under attack.

So let's just regulate their education, abortion and have the cops stand down.

Must be great to have the very people you keep down as your biggest supporters.

If you want blacks and Hispanics to stay segregated, vote for the multi millionaire white Liberals.


----------



## Soundhound

Abortion clinics are an attempt to lower the # of black and hispanic voters. They have nothing to do with health care, or helping people. Dude. Honestly.


----------



## chimuelo

Soundhound said:


> Abortion clinics are an attempt to lower the # of black and hispanic voters. They have nothing to do with health care, or helping people. Dude. Honestly.



Right, White Power Brotha man.
Make out Trump as the racists while Liberals save money fighting poverty at the clinics...
Then regulating the imported hispanics keeps poverty at acceptable levels, well acceptable to wealthy whites.


----------



## Soundhound

You really think abortion clinics are promoted by wealth white liberals to lower the #s of poor voters and prevent them from becoming empowered? Seriously, this is what you think?


----------



## NYC Composer

...and by refusing abortions to all women, your hero DJT is going to
empower minorities?


----------



## chimuelo

There yuze go with the left right responses when this is a womens issue.
Men have no business getting involved.
500 million from tax payers is matched by private supporters. Women mostly, so let the Ho's be Ho's.

Seems like it actually regulates poverty and keeps incarceration rates down.
If Liberals dont mind millions of children being terminated they're the ones who have to live with that, not me.


----------



## NYC Composer

See, men vote on women's issues-just so you know.


----------



## chimuelo

Since when does your vote count?
Your wealthy white was already selected for you....


----------



## NYC Composer

...and yours!


----------



## chimuelo

Jury's still out on Trump being a Clinton shill...
But it might backfire which is what I'm betting on.


----------



## NYC Composer

So I guess from your comments you're anti abortion, Jimmy. That's an interesting Libertarian perspective.


----------



## chimuelo

I always admired Gore Vidal.
George Washington.
FDR & Ann Rand on certain issues.
We have no role models except for me these days.


----------



## NYC Composer

I've been thinking you were a Randian.
It's a little disconcerting imagining you enjoying breathless romance novels, but life is full of conundrums.

Btw, you're in questionable company. Greenspan was a Rand acolyte and member of her inner circle, and he is a dunce.

You ARE a legend in your own mind!


----------



## Soundhound

Not to pile on or anything. Ok, to pile on: what, in the name of all that is holy, do you agree with Ayn Rand about?


----------



## chimuelo

Well I agreed on her Diomedec attitude towards women issues. Even got a kick out of her comments on traditional marriages where the father gives away the daughter as if shes livestock.

My Great Grandmother was married to GGramps for 2 Horses a Goat and 3 Gold Coins when she was 14.
She would call the Chevy Malibu the Machine.
Shit she was 98 years old when she kicked the bucket.

Any ways, my all time favorite is still Gore Vidal.
He came up hard and has such a wonderful view on life.
Always loved the way he made people laugh like a Victor Borga concert, and never intended to. Never even cracked a smile.
But after surviving Okinawa and Saipan humor probably is dificult.

My fav was when he was on Carson with Jim and Tammy and sat their politely quiet after they just gave a schpiel about God with glazed eyes.
They asked what he thought about religion in the South and he commented on how it was a great change since slavery.
Baker then says his believers are creating the Bible Belt.
Vidal said tax free status ctreated the Bible Belt.
Even my hard core old man laughed.

He was ad close to flawless as a VSI 2 Karat Diamond.
We should have leaders like him.

My latest fav is Jonathan Turley.
A real liberal, not at 18 karat type.


----------



## NYC Composer

Dio-whatsis??


----------



## Soundhound

You mean dialectic?


----------



## chimuelo

Diomedes.
Greek mythology stuff.
Capable of thinking on multiple levels, and in multiple dimensions...

You found the primmer....?

Clever girl........lights.


----------



## chimuelo

Just trying to recuperate from Crossfit.
1100 hundred fucking meters.
Line drills.
Im flipping truck tires and girls are flipping excavator tires.
I feel like a schmuck.

Im broke from buying synths.
Wanted a few shots to ease my pain but theres a bar 15 miles away.
Was a dry county until 2013 so no much action.

Usually when Im broke I go to gay bars since the drinks are free.
Nothing like that in these parts.

Thought youd enjoy knowing Im suffering.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, you're my high tech hero, and my idea of crossfit is if I stretch while walking my 5 miles a day.


----------



## Soundhound

My crossfit this evening consisted of using the remote while simultaneous putting away a tray of pistachios. Diomedes, Jimmy, cool. Rand's views on women always seemed very irrational, objectively speaking (ar ar ar). More so than multi layered. Male hero worship. Being put on a pedestal rocks, to be sure. But it's kind of a crackpot idea don't you think?


----------



## NYC Composer

Hell, I'm still on my first wife. What do I know. Jimmy's got more experience.


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## Soundhound

As they say in our new neighborhood (The South): That's how we like our women, barefoot and pregnant.


----------



## chimuelo

If the grass is growing you gotta work the fields...


----------



## NYC Composer

Thet dawg won't hunt.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump sweeps 5 States with 60% +.....!!

I didnt realize New England had millions of angry white racists.

Impressive for a guy who doesnt need money from billionaires that buy and sell Liberals and Conservatives.


----------



## NYC Composer

Go Trumpster!! Make America Great Against!!


----------



## chimuelo

Not sure if I will enjoy seeing Hillary do the purp walk as much as watching her lose it during a debate with Trump where she physically attacks him and is drug off the stage frothing and kicking.
He will brutalize her and millions want front row seats for this show.


----------



## Soundhound

Hitler was very popular in Germany as well with a particular subset of the population. History books rock.


----------



## NYC Composer

.. and then he'li lose and it will all have been bread and gladiators.


----------



## chimuelo

As a brown skinned angry male racist sexist Islamaphobe, I could use a new brand.

Im looking forward to becoming a white racist.
I could pass and just tell the guys in pointed hoods I work outdoors.

Then like we have Black history month, or womens issues week we might get new paradigms and selected holidays.

I want a whiteness month or even just a week not to offend other races.
I would take the week off from work.
Go around hailing cabs, feeling all powerful and shit.
Ordering around minority workers at restaraunts.

Looking forward to becoming a white racist.


----------



## NYC Composer

if Trump's elected I suspect you'll get it!


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy, you have found your candidate.


----------



## chimuelo

Maybe.
Only 1%'r's do well under wealthy white Liberals and Conservatives.
Same deceptive promises to thier constiuents.
Sad I have to switch over to becoming a white racist Spinach-chin-a-phobe.
But time for a change from the same old lying thieving money grubbing lawyers.

Cruz hints he has a VP choice...?
The guy is delusional.

One smart guy destroyed the entire Consevative Party.
16 other seasoned candidates.
Didnt cost jack shit.
Has no ground game.

Hillary has one little old socialist and can barely win without the DNC rigging the race.

Washington is on notice.

Americans dont really need them.
A bunch of lawyers and piss poor litigators selling us out.....

Burn baby burn..


----------



## NYC Composer

You go, Jimmy. Shrug like Atlas do, man. End of the World/know it/feel fine.


----------



## Soundhound

The conservative party wasn't destroyed by Trump, it was revealed for what it is. The Republican party dug its own grave starting with Barry Goldwater's knee jerk cold warrior paranoia. It got progressively worse over the next 50 years, following the singular trajectory of greed and fear mongering. Nixon used racial hatred to win two elections. Reagan, a man of at best average intelligence, the pawn of big business, laid the groundwork for free range unregulated capitalism and embraced American's very own Taliban as his constituency—the religious right has been adding their poison to the national discussion ever since. How civilized can a country be in which running for president means you have to feign religious beliefs if you don't hold any yourself? It's laughably primitive.

Bill Clinton started as a Democrat, then caved after getting his ass kicked on single payer health care and Newt Gingrich, that repulsive demagogue wanna-be, shut down the government just to show he could do it. As a result, we got deregulation on steroids. George W Bush, who will go down as the worst president in the history of the country (there's not any competition, he's the Michael Jordan, the Babe Ruth of failed leaders). It was so bad, the country elected a highly intelligent, eloquent guy who spoke compassionately of what he intended to do. An extraordinary, self made man who tried for 8 years to do the right thing, and was turned back at ever opportunity by a Republican party that has moved so far to the right, they have to cheat to stay in power. There is no such thing as voter fraud. It's a fraud. The gerrymandering the Repbulicans have pulled off over the last generation is the stuff of banana republics.

Trump is just the icing on the cake, the cherry on top. And, finally, the last straw. He is what the Republican party has become, incarnate. All the ignorance, greed, hate and fear that has turned the Republican party into the cesspool it is, is on brilliant, cogent display every time he opens his mouth.

After getting their asses handed to them this fall, will they learn a lesson and become more moderate? No I think it will take a generation for that to happen. Hopefully they'll have at least that much time. 20 years would be good. 50 would be better.


----------



## NYC Composer

They already made all those moderate noises in 2012, then completely ignored them. They made a big deal of expanding their tent, embracing changing demographics, and did none of it. Odd.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> As a brown skinned angry male racist sexist Islamaphobe, I could use a new brand.
> 
> Im looking forward to becoming a white racist.
> I could pass and just tell the guys in pointed hoods I work outdoors.
> 
> Looking forward to becoming a white racist.



Haha Jimmy!

Looks like you'll get your wish after last night.

Go Trump!!!

Boy that Cruz/Kaisich amalgamation seriously backfired.


----------



## Soundhound

The only question remaining for this political year is, what will Trump do after losing so badly in the fall? I'm sure concepts are already being drafted all over town. I've never watched a reality TV show, but I would watch one in which Donald gets his true wish, ditches the current facial surgery victim wife for his daughter, and we watch the happy couple set up housekeeping. Father and daughter on rotating circular bed beneath a Joe Namath style ceiling mirror. The pitch meeting is monday. Wish me luck!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> The conservative party wasn't destroyed by Trump, it was revealed for what it is.


Bullshit. Except for a few states, 2/3 of the GOP is voting for someone other than Trump. 
Full disclosure: Edited because I originally called you an idiot. But then realized I was sinking to your level and deleted it.
Further Edit: That "full disclosure" was a passive aggressive jab at you and I am truly sorry and repentant. I leave it here to serve as an example of how I should not act.
I'm not even upset at you, to be truthful. My anger is at those who support Trump, and I take it out on you.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> Haha Jimmy!
> 
> Looks like you'll get your wish after last night.
> 
> Go Trump!!!
> 
> Boy that Cruz/Kaisich amalgamation seriously backfired.


Trump's landslide last night was not unexpected. All projections accounted for that, even those with him NOT winning 1237 before the convention.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael my friend, he's the nominee. Swallow hard.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael my friend, he's the nominee. Swallow hard.


It ain't over til it is.


----------



## NYC Composer

:::cups hand to ear:::: what's that sound? Sounds like a fat lady...singing.....


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> :::cups hand to ear:::: what's that sound? Sounds like a fat lady...singing.....


She ain't singing yet. She may be warming up, but the final act hasn't quite started yet.
I don't feel much different about the delegate count this morning than I did yesterday, because as I said in another post, all the projections include last night's landslide.

The reason I am so upset this AM is because once again I find myself scratching my head. I can't believe that so many GOPers support Trump. It's outrageous. I heard a lady on the news say she supports Trump because "he speaks his mind". Good grief, let that sink in. "Because he speaks his mind", she supports him for the highest office in the land, the Commander-in-Chief.

He's mean. He's a bully. He degrades women and mocks the disabled. All he has to offer is anger. The man is all sizzle, no substance. And they fall for it, hook, line and sinker. It's maddening.

Even if he wins the nom, there is no chance he will win General. And as much as I can't stand Hillary, I'm not much more scared that he won't than I am that he will, if you know what I mean.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yep. Problem is, your candidate (Cruz?) wouldn't beat her either.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Yep. Problem is, your candidate (Cruz?) wouldn't beat her either.


For a while, most polls showed he would, and even now, most polls have him 3 % points or less behind. He has always polled MUCH better against Hillary than Trump has.

I know that polls aren't everything, but at this point, it's all we got.

Hillary's insane, but she won't be beat by Trump, because the Dems will come out in full force to vote for her. The GOP will be in pieces by then and conservatives will vote 3rd party or stay home. It's that simple.

My actual belief is that Trump is a Trojan Horse and doesn't want to be president. If he wins nom, what I should do is vote for him in hopes he gets that which he doesn't want. But I can't do it. I just can't vote for him.


----------



## chimuelo

Cmon Mike.
Dont be stupid be a smarty.
Come and join the white mans Party.

Hes setting records at a faster pace,
Look out her comes the master race......


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Cmon Mike.
> Dont be stupid be a smarty.
> Come and join the white mans Party.
> 
> Hes setting records at a faster pace,
> Look out her comes the master race......


Them thar are funny lyrics!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Im going to be a spinach-chin-a-phobe.....


What is that?


----------



## chimuelo

Because I get nervous on planes with guys in towels and robes with long beards.
Hillbillies make me nervous too since the movie Deliverence.
Liberals have really long politically correct names.
So thats what I will become.
My bagger at the market was indoctrinated at one of the Union schools.
He says hes an agricultural product organizer.
I say hes a bagger


----------



## Baron Greuner

I just get nervous on planes.

And don't forget that Deliverance was an English director. Hmmmm...


----------



## chimuelo

Where I live Muslim farmers dont have spinach chins, the Omish guys do.
The area is starting to grow so they will have special classes to show people what a left arrow at a stoplight is.
Everybody looks like Daniel Craig with a Crocodile Dundee hat.
Mexicans look like Cowboys with boots and Stetsons.
They all ask if I am Aye Talian....
When I first ate at a restaraunt the gal walked up empty handed and asked me if I wanted some Ass Water. Sounds disgusting but they struggle with English still.

Harvest Bondfires are a great place to meet trim as to them thats where you get drunk and loose.
Whats even stranger are the numerous Bernie and Trump stickers.
Nobody elses name is seen anywhere.
Nobody vandalizes the signs.
Protestors at the College nearby are incredibly well mannered.

I will miss the great farmlands but I need sex and my worshippers in Vegas miss me.
Time to ho back to 2400 stages.
There if you cant get a gig you really suck.
We even have a 400 lb. Elvis there.......
How hard could it be to score gigs?


----------



## Soundhound

Agreed all around. Trump is an ignorant, dangerous, hateful nincompoop. But at least he's not Ted Cruz. Trump would be a bad TV show creating endless war, and we're already the laughingstock of the western world, so what the hell? Cruz would be so much worse.

Jimmy as long as we're singing Mel Brooks songs, maybe this is all a reenactment of The Producers. Reince is Max Bialystok, Trump is the playwright. But who's Leo Bloom?

edit: just read your post - you're leaving Nastyville?


----------



## Soundhound

Ted Cruz chooses Carly Fiorina as his running mate. Swear to god, I'm not making this up.


----------



## chimuelo

That was decided weeks ago.
Fiorna is dangerously sharp and is teaching Ted how to take media time back from Trump.
Who's talking about Trump today?
Bernie should have done this before New York.


----------



## Soundhound

Dangerously sharp. Carly Fiorina, the woman who almost single handedly sunk HP.


----------



## chimuelo

Jobs failed a few times.
That's business.
Only in politics do people lose and claim they won.

I would never under estimate that woman.
I think she's dangerous and very clever.
She's the only candidate that set Trump on his heels.


----------



## Soundhound

She's got all the charisma of a steaming pile of...earthworms. And she's a terrible, ham fisted, thieving 80s style business hack, her entire track record, like Trump's is one of bullshit and failure. She's entirely ignorable. I'd say this was it for Cruz, but it's been over for him for a while. Thank god. Trump hired exactly the kind of insider guy he's been whining about the entire campaign. They're going to put lipstick on the pig and we're in for Dr. Strangelove level politics for rest of the year. 

It's over boys. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss is the worst case scenario, which is bad. But maybe Hillary winds up proving to be a progressive. Elizabeth Warren runs the Senate, the supreme court starts to roll back the payola that has passed for jurisprudence under Scalia, and we finally move away from two full generations of right wing abject failure in every aspect of government. 

It's what I hoped for with Obama, but the racists headed him off at every turn. Time to pick ourselves up, dust it off and hope for the best. As Boogie said, if you don't got dreams, you got nightmares.


----------



## chimuelo

Dont worry Sound. She cant win even though she is one hell of an attacker.
Wouldnt want her gunning for me.

But start preparing yourself for the complete removal of Liberals from DC.
The only place they will have a voice is in the ghettos they maintain.

I had breakfast today with friends and love the fresh produce they serve.
Grow thier own stuff, grind thier own coffee.
Everyone there wants Bernie or Trump.
Everywhere I go I see this. I travel more than most folks.
Never have seen people so energized to vote before.

Theres not a snowballs chance in hell that Liberal ghetto owners will be elected, and even on state levels everyone has started using Trumps or Sanders POVs.

Conservatives and Liberals are history.

American middle class brought the highest standard of living ever seen and will do so again when these 2 law firms loose thier ass in November.


----------



## Soundhound

Your Reagan/Rand inspired fantasy land where conservatives (old style) fight for individual's rights, and liberals are evil prison wardens is an inspiring hallucination. A world in which Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are fighting the same fight, comrades in arms, in the trench together, sharing a gaulois while the shells burst feet away, sending waves of dirt over their heads. I am waiting for the novel/movie/netflix series. I will pay money to watch/read/hear.

I share the desire to see the back room bullshit brought to an end. Thinking that Donald Trump can be the transformative figure goes far beyond eating the worm at the bottom of the bottle though. It's mental masturbation, which is what much of the country has been trained to do now thanks to mainstream media. Remember Gary Trudeau's goof on the trivialization of news organizations back in the early 80s? I think he was sending up USA Today, the thin edge of the moron wedge, as I recall. The headline was a giant vegetable flexing his biceps, the headline was "We're eating more beats!" That's what Trump is, a wild story for them to sell. 

Meanwhile, back in the real world, life goes on. Drearily, unremarkably, inexorably, but for the first time in our adult lives, with a glimmer of hope. 

Per The Maestro: 

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/boro...-tap-into-immense-popularity-of-carly-fiorina


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, what you is is a man who's gonna be fitty bucks lighter in the loafers come November. Don't worry though-I'll prolly donate it to Tracy Collins in exchange for one of his awesome and very reasonably priced libraries.


----------



## chimuelo

Yuze guys have too much faith in wealthy Liberals.
You have witnessed Americans supporting Trump as he destroyed the corrupt GOP.
He did this without money.

He will remove the remaining wealthy whites since he previously owned them.
Nobody has ever seen the corruption exposed.

Yuze guys might even feel shame once this happens.

If you dig in your heels its safe to assume you are subsidized, which would explain the blind loyalty to the false cause of the wealthy white liberal.


----------



## Soundhound

The black helicopters are not coming for you Jimmy. Really they're not.


----------



## NYC Composer

I have faith in numbers. We shall see.

Ted and Carly-it's like a cobra sidling up to a hyena. What a B-team! A marriage made in...in....desperation.
What-Palin wasn't available?


----------



## Soundhound

I have no faith in wealth white liberals. I wish Bernie was going to be president. But Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, Fiorina et al would sink this country faster than a Ted Nugent b-side. The video of Fiorina singing at her announcement was glorious. This gets to be more fun all the time.

Separated at birth?:


----------



## chimuelo

Bobby Knight says it all.


----------



## chimuelo

Would love to see Trump team do a commercial after Indianna where it shows Ivanka and Melania with the 1st Lady showing them the Oval Office.
Have the girls measuring the drapes, the son checking out the desk for Dad.
Let them know theyll be taking over soon....


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> Ted Cruz chooses Carly Fiorina as his running mate. Swear to god, I'm not making this up.





NYC Composer said:


> I have faith in numbers. We shall see.
> 
> Ted and Carly-it's like a cobra sidling up to a hyena. What a B-team! A marriage made in...in....desperation.
> What-Palin wasn't available?


Palin's backing Trump now. Big time.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I work less than a mile from an HP campus. Everybody I know who worked there during Fiorina's time hates her down to their marrow. They have stories, like her replacing portraits of the HP founders with portraits of her, that are lore. Like Trump, she's not a leader and she doesn't give a crap about the people or the organization; she's a self-promoter. End of story.

I'm not saying she's not smart. I'm saying that those around her quickly see her for the selfish, lying, unethical person that she is.

If you ask me, rather than somebody who takes power, we need a president who empowers.


----------



## chimuelo

I agree.
Which is why I am 100% behind the Trump Farakhan ticket....

American voters at the Inaugural below....


----------



## NYC Composer

Donald J. Trump, down with the brothas. Mmm-I like it.

@ Michael-yeah I know, but I figured she'd switch for another shot at the brass ring. Scary thought. Maybe Trump will offer.....nah.... oh gee whiz what a thought.


----------



## chimuelo

Palin will head the EPA.
That should make Liberals family members and friends nervous.


----------



## NYC Composer

Welcome to Flint- would you care for a glass of water?


----------



## chimuelo

I'd rather have that than a Fish caught from the River they turned yellow.

Pretty smart folks.
Break open highly toxic mining shaft.
Pollute a 3 state area.
Hire yourselves to fix it.

Beats snorkelling to rescue traumatized Goldfish at a park.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I live next to a river Jimmy. No yellow fish so far. Unless they're smoked.


----------



## chimuelo

I pull Yellow Bass out of the Cumberland every month.
Blue Catfish.
But Crappe taste the best.

They actually have nutrients vital for rebuilding muscle like they sell in tubs for 75 bucks.
I just crawl from the truck into the kitchen after cross fit and do my John Kasich imitation by shoving handfuls into my face.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yes Bass is so expensive these days. Fortunately, the river mouth and just beyond is a hunting ground for bass, provided we stick to the rules on minimum measurements. Think it's 14 or 15 inches these days. Sand eels for bait and they are not in short supply. I don't go fishing in these days, but plenty of the younger ones do.
John Kaisitch comes across as a part-time asshole. Is there any truth in that?


----------



## chimuelo

Actually he was very effective in Congress and obviously a Good Governor.
But its tough to go against an entire nation that wants an outsider.
Only subsidized folks want an Obama 3rd term.
Even with 450,000 dead and millions gone I believe Syrians would overwhelmingly vote for Trump and he would win there too.

Today American Satanists have Bee's in thier Bonnets for Boehner comparing Lucifer to Cruz.
Also in Mexico last night protests became violent where Trump held a rally.


----------



## snowleopard

JonFairhurst said:


> I work less than a mile from an HP campus. Everybody I know who worked there during Fiorina's time hates her down to their marrow. ...I'm not saying she's not smart.


Ted Kaczynski was a genius. Joseph Goebbels very smart. Ted Bundy and Rodney Alcala were both plenty intelligent as well.


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah but Carly had a few hits in the 80s with the Eurythmics. So she's talented too.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I'm sure that she sang, "Sweet dreams are made of these..." as she handed out layoff notices.

If she offered me food or drink, I think I'd politely decline.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> I'm sure that she sang, "Sweet dreams are made of these..." as she handed out layoff notices.
> 
> If she offered me food or drink, I think I'd politely decline.


At least you'd do it politely.


----------



## Soundhound

Which, one can't help but think, is not the way she declines dinner invitations.


----------



## Soundhound

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...fe-journalist-melania-trump-antisemitic-abuse


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...fe-journalist-melania-trump-antisemitic-abuse


They behave just like their cult leader, who mocked a disabled man.


----------



## chimuelo

Well if that's true she can prosecute them.
That's considered hate speech.
She should get a lawyer and prosecute them as Twitter must comply to a Subpoena.

This won't happen because she'd be prosecuting a Liberal helping the cause.

I got 20 on this to any takers.
Quite familiar with tax payer backed organizations like Acorn.
You get rid of one and another pops up.

She's cute in the 2nd shot.
I want to see the shopped ones with big chi-chis naked having sex with a ISIS fighter.


----------



## Soundhound

If if if? of course it's hate speech, they're doing what they're being invited to do by Trump.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy-as far as I'm concerned "tax payer based organizations", include all houses of worship and all conservative "think tanks" and PACs that are being exempted from taxes, though they take in a fuck ton of money, and there are a LOT of them, none of which I belong to or exempt willingly from taxation on their vast property holdings.

Conservatives complain about the subsidies for solar power but never seem to have any problems with the trillions in exemptions and giveaways for Exxon and their ilk. Funny how that works.

It seems to me that you like to say you're neutral, but it's the same story every time-you use the rhetoric of the right with a little left sprinkled in so you can do "no spin" dance. It's fun to watch and play off of, but really dude-ACORN? Isn't that sort of last decade as far as conservative complaints? Just relax and let us re-distribute you. You'll come to love the free stuff, just wait and see. Flat screens for all! It's all going to be fine, comrade.

Sincerely,
Red Larry


----------



## Baron Greuner

That is completely correct Larry and the same thing happens here all the time.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron, Baron, Baron!! WTF??

I guess I just don't get the thrill of gunning down bunnies with AK-47s until the fur flies and the bright red blood stains the verdant landscape. It's probably just the bleeding heart Commie I've become.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Oh no no no Larry. I agree I don't like that type of behaviour. There again I'm not a conservative.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm talking about TrailerKid.


----------



## NYC Composer

Back to politics. It's getting close to the Big Finish and the mystery is now running mates. I must admit, I haven't a clue. Are there any Mexicans available to Donald J. Trump? Now THAT would be an interesting move.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Can't see anyway back for Cruz and Kaisitch now. Surprised to see Trump pick that dreadful woman as a running partner. People need to understand though, that Cruz is probably more right wing than Trump.

He's Damian I tell you!!!!!

errr...

Flee you fools!!


----------



## NYC Composer

I think you mean Cruz picked that dreadful woman?


----------



## chimuelo

Sam just bought me some synths by returning some of the money they took from me.
So there's some light at the end of the redistribution tunnel.
But I didn't earn that, the government did.
By building the roads with my money that allow me to work.

Im preparing myself to be Warrenized.
Just in case we get a blue eyed blonde haired Cherokee victim for Vice President.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> I think you mean Cruz picked that dreadful woman?



Freudian!!! Yes indeed. Trump would never pick a woman.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Jimmy-as far as I'm concerned "tax payer based organizations", include all houses of worship and all conservative "think tanks" and PACs that are being exempted from taxes, though they take in a fuck ton of money, and there are a LOT of them, none of which I belong to or exempt willingly from taxation on their vast property holdings.
> Sincerely,
> Red Larry


Do you really think that all houses of worship take in a ton of money? It just ain't true. There are tons of little churches all over the place, who are not rich by any means. My mom's church, the one she had been going to for 44 years, recently shut its doors because it had run out of money. And no, they didn't spend it foolishly on an in-house gym or McDonald's or Starbucks or fancy video equipment. They spent their money on helpful things like missionaries and other charities.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> Oh no no no Larry. I agree I don't like that type of behaviour. There again I'm not a conservative.


Hey, I am a conservative, and I have never hunted. I detest the idea unless it's absolutely necessary for food. And even then, I don't think I could do it. 
I have never killed an animal in my life. I'm very soft-hearted toward animals. And I wouldn't mind if they took all meat away. I've been a vegetarian before, I could do it again. I love Morning Star veggie patties.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> Do you really think that all houses of worship take in a ton of money? It just ain't true. There are tons of little churches all over the place, who are not rich by any means. My mom's church, the one she had been going to for 44 years, recently shut its doors because it had run out of money. And no, they didn't spend it foolishly on an in-house gym or McDonald's or Starbucks or fancy video equipment. They spent their money on helpful things like missionaries and other charities.


Michael-fair point, not ALL churches take in a lot of money, however, it's sort of hard to argue against the fact that the Catholic Church has picked up a pretty penny through tax exemptions for real estate, as have The Church of Latter Day Saints, The Church of Scientology, all Mega Churches and most major city churches regardless of denomination. I was born Jewish, and I'm sure Judaism has profited as well. My point though, as an agnostic, it's not something I want to exempt. I appreciate the charity and good works done by religious organizations, but there are a lot of secular ways to give to charity. 

It's not just religious orgs that frost me though-I want to get rid of all these tax exempt nonsensical 501-c political boondoggles as well.


----------



## Baron Greuner

You don't have any control where your music winds up when you do library work.
I had a track last year featured in its entirety on a US hunting programme. Made me unhappy but fortunately there was no hunting during the track. It was a medieval thing and the programme at that point was just showing a castle and moat somewhere in Europe.


----------



## Soundhound

There was a time when there were religious leaders who fought for peace, not war:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/n...gNews&contentID=62932015&pgtype=Homepage&_r=1


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> You don't have any control where your music winds up when you do library work.
> I had a track last year featured in its entirety on a US hunting programme. Made me unhappy but fortunately there was no hunting during the track. It was a medieval thing and the programme at that point was just showing a castle and moat somewhere in Europe.


Mine end up in worse places than that :::he said darkly:::


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> Mine end up in worse places than that :::he said darkly:::



Not................





Catholic Church Propaganda?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Not................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Catholic Church Propaganda?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


Worse.


----------



## Baron Greuner

'Ere Larr! 'Av you caught all this socialist stuff comin' outta England?


----------



## NYC Composer

Aintchew all been Commie for decades??


----------



## Baron Greuner

No No. This anti semitism stuff that they have now been caught doing? Seriously. Very poor show happening here.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ahhh. It's bred in the bone.

By nature, I'm a peaceful man-but I ain't getting herded on to a train without taking some motherfuckers with me.


----------



## Baron Greuner

You talk about what's happening in your political arena today, but here we have some serious morons running round the place that get elected, whereas in the real world they are virtually unemployable. We had to put up with some filthy fucking socialist cow this morning spouting bollocks, who in the real world should be thrown from the top of a very tall building.
The problem is though, both the BBC and now Sky pander to them.

That said, it now looks almost certain that this particular bullshit ruling government we have, is going after the BBC in a big way.

Actually, in terms of balanced reporting it's become a very close call between Sky and the BBC today. The BBC might just be edging it actually.

They're both crap though so it's like comparing Smallpox with Syphilis.


----------



## NYC Composer

Media here is awful as well, pandering to their constituencies and polarizing everyone for advertising dollars.

How's Blighty gonna roll with this Brexit thingie?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry you're a very naughty chap because you're stopping me from working. YES! I always blame the other person. It's never my fault. 

You'll have to give me a Skype soon.

The Brexit?

My personal take on it is this. If I was a betting man, I would put my mortgage on a Remain vote. There's no way they will vote to come out of Europe imo. 

Besides, if that happened, what am I going to say to Gunther? How am I going to explain that? 

Im outta of here for a while. I must finish this track because they are threatening cake or death.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hahaha! Choose LIFE, as George Michael would say. Me, I worked already, going to sleep. Have a blessed day.


----------



## chimuelo

I haven't hunted for a long time.
It's an important function and the Fish & Game folks do a great job of balance.
But my last hunting trip was awful.
Elk herds in Wyoming raised their max to 2 back in 2006.
It was my day to charge devices and prep. Field dressing the quarry keeps a clean camp too but folks were using the Solar hitch with a meat freezer.
The scent attracted other predators.
I came out the shtter and a large brown grabbed me and starting squeezing me so hard I was passing out.
I resorted to grabbing the bears dick and jerking him off.
Thankfully he loosened his grip and dropped me.
I ran like a bat out of Hell down to the River and looked back as I caught my breath and the Bear was waving for me to come back.
Haven't hunted since.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

That is the most bizarre story I have ever read.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I'm guessing you're quite young Mike. Am I right? Or am I right?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> I'm guessing you're quite young Mike. Am I right? Or am I right?


I wish I were quite young. I'm 49.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Well OK.

I found it bizarre also, but that's only because here in England we don't have any bears.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> Well OK.
> 
> I found it bizarre also, but that's only because here in England we don't have any bears.


It wasn't exactly the presence of the bear that I found bizarre, ha ha.
Chimuelo has some crazy stories. Are they true, or are we being taken for a wild ride?


----------



## Baron Greuner

No they're all true.


----------



## Soundhound

He still gets cards from the bear on birthdays and holidays.


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> He still gets cards from the bear on birthdays and holidays.


I went into a fit of uncontrollable laughter when I read this!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I went into a fit of uncontrollable laughter when I read this!


Gotcha beat. I gave Soundhound a "like" for the first time ever!


----------



## Soundhound

Comics love nothing more than getting laughs. But careful Larry, at our age (today I join you over on the other side) we have to keep a watchful eye on the vital signs.



NYC Composer said:


> I went into a fit of uncontrollable laughter when I read this!


----------



## Soundhound

There is hope for the world!! We _can_ all get along! 




Michael K. Bain said:


> Gotcha beat. I gave Soundhound a "like" for the first time ever!


----------



## chimuelo

Once you distract Liberals and Conservatives from the hypnotic indoctrination trances embedded by the NYCrimes MSNBC and Fox they're fine until they are summoned by elites again at supper time.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, it must scare the shit out of you to look in the mirror and see the Voice of Reason staring back. I know it scares the shit out of ME that that's what you see!

(Or maybe you see a large posse of vampire sheep behind you, looking at you hungrily.)


----------



## chimuelo

At night I sign my own autograph book.
Never pass a MIRROR without taking a second look.
Cause Mules have kicked me and couldn't bruise my hide.
Rattlesnakes bit me......crawled off and died.


----------



## NYC Composer

"WHOOO...do you lo-ove....."


----------



## chimuelo

I was born in a barrel of butcher knives.
Shot in my ass with by 2 Colt 45s.
Slapped by a bear and stung by the eel.
I chew up railroad iron and shit out steel.
I'm so bad I jumped in the ocean and bottled up a whale.
Handcuffed lightning and threw thunders ass in jail.

Teddy Wheatstraw
Devils son & law
The high sheriff of Hell....


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> There is hope for the world!! We _can_ all get along!


I'm starting to get a little scared. We both agree on Trump, as well! I know we don't agree on Cruz, but we'll not speak of those issues on such a day of unity!


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> Comics love nothing more than getting laughs. But careful Larry, at our age (today I join you over on the other side) we have to keep a watchful eye on the vital signs.


Happy B-day, 'Hound!! May you live to a ripe old age-well, not TOO ripe, lest you rot as I have.


----------



## NYC Composer

but wait...so who are the VP nominees??


----------



## Soundhound

Thanks yew! Reminds me of the Woody Allen line (being a New Yorker transplanted to LA) "I'm not so sure about mellow, the danger is you'll ripen and then rot." 



NYC Composer said:


> Happy B-day, 'Hound!! May you live to a ripe old age-well, not TOO ripe, lest you rot as I have.


----------



## Soundhound

Grab our guitars (acoustic of course) and head for a mountaintop for a communal singalong! (just kidding, I'm not schlepping a marshall stack up that hill so I can play my natural instrument.)



Michael K. Bain said:


> I'm starting to get a little scared. We both agree on Trump, as well! I know we don't agree on Cruz, but we'll not speak of those issues on such a day of unity!


----------



## NYC Composer

I'd like to teach the WORLD to sing. In PURR-fect har-mo-ny.


----------



## chimuelo

Indeed.


----------



## chimuelo

I figured out why Carly was hired onto the Cruz team.
Who better to lay everybody off after Indiana.


----------



## chimuelo

They should put Kasich picture on a milk carton.


----------



## NYC Composer

True. Missing in action.

VP PICKS!!!!!


----------



## Soundhound

Clinton picks Bill Clinton. 2 for 1 sale!
Trump picks Kim Kardashian.

Back in the (un)real world - Clinton: Julian Castro, Cory Booker? Trump: someone with the appearance of being a serious, competent old hand, to offset Trump's blatantly obvious ignorance of, well, everything. That's what his new camp manager will be insisting on, but Trump will want some kind of grandstand move...


----------



## NYC Composer

Agreed on Trump, though again-who?? Would Kasich go for it? His lips say no, but...

Castro has the same problem as Rubio-he looks too fresh faced and seems too green.
Cory Booker has been a mayor and is now a short term Senator-I don't think it's his time yet. He's also sort of glib.
I don't think it's Warren either, though she's probably next. Personally, I think I'd like....Bernie! That's an actual 2 for 1 the country might go for. Would he do it? Who knows?


----------



## chimuelo

The VP pick is important.
Whoever picks last has the advantage of response.
Bernie will pick Warren.
Trump will respond with Suzzanne Martinez.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I don't think it's Warren either, though she's probably next. Personally, I think I'd like....Bernie! That's an actual 2 for 1 the country might go for. Would he do it? Who knows?



I wouldn't be surprised if Trump picked Bernie. In fact, if he does, I would love it. Just to see his most ardent supporters gnashing their teeth. But then again, I don't know if it would make a dent in their cheeto loving hearts. I mean, Trump himself called them gullible when he said "I could shoot someone someone in the street and they'd still vote for me", and they still support him. I tell you, if Cruz had said that, I'd have dropped him in a NY minute.

For his own sake, Trump would be smart to announce a Bernie VP after the convention. The party already wants to find a way to kick him out, even if he does win the 1237. They would find that way if he picks Bernie.


----------



## JonFairhurst

As if Bernie would agree to be Trump's punching bag. (Reference: Chris Christie being insulted while on stage with Trump.)

And then there's this:


----------



## chimuelo

Trump makes me howl.
Fiorina falls down, Cruz does
nothing to help.
Trump says even I would have helped her.
I always wanted Trump and Sanders.
Sparta had 2 kings.
Worked out well for centuries until they caved into those Athenian boy lovers.
Bernie and Trump was a dream come true until he starting revealing his anger about Hispanic criminals killing Americans, raping Honduran women.etc.
Some things you should be quiet about.
Even I was passed off at that Crap.
But millions of pinche gringos are all for his wall.
Obama even wants to put a wall on Libyas eastern border.
Wants the white house wall 5 feet higher...


----------



## Baron Greuner

I _really thought _that Indiana would have been a Cruz place. But polls suggest otherwise for tonight main event.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Fiorina falls down, Cruz does
> nothing to help.


He did not see her fall. He was in his own crowd of people, shaking their hands, talking to them.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump told several tribes there that he would push to change the name of the state.
Indiana is an offensive racist name.

Most likely Tatanka or another name chosen by Indians.
I had an old girlfriend who took a Christian name.
She was Shoshone.
I liked the Native name she chose as an adult. It was well suited.

Shumanee Eeyaa Yello.
Forum rules do not allow the translation, so I digress.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Here's the thing. We obviously don't get the Sam coverage of unfolding election events as you in the US.

Every time I see Trump talking to media reporters he tends go on about winning and how much he won by and different people he beat and how the other candidate had nothing. That's all fine a couple of times. But he does it a lot. If he gets nominated, things will need to change a lot, because if he doesn't on a head to head basis with Hillary, he will get slaughtered. The issue in elections come down to the great undecided voter.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I feel sorry for the people of Columbus, Ohio, home of the 2016 Republican Convention.

If Trump doesn't get a majority of delegates, Trump's id will ravage the town. And if Trump wins the nomination, his ego will smother it.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Watched that in HD a couple of nights ago. Never thought I'd get to see it again. Saw it at the cinema when it came out roughly. The BBC put it up to celebrate Shakespeare's 400th anniversary of his death. Couldn't believe it and really loved it.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Not just a great film, but a groundbreaking soundtrack. We use synths, samples, and software. They built their sounds with soldering irons.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yes Louis and Bebe Barron? All done in their small New York studio if memory serves me right.


----------



## Soundhound

Ann Francis. Oh, Ann Francis. Had a lasting effect on my 6 year old brain, never fully recovered.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Well, NYC, you were right. I am very saddened tonight. I am still stunned that so many people support. such a horrible man.
The GOP is completely dead to me. 
I've felt it slipping away for a few years now. The establishment built the coffin, and Trump nailed the nails.
I am no longer a Republican.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Michael K. Bain said:


> Well, NYC, you were right. I am very saddened tonight. I am still stunned that so many people support. such a horrible man.
> The GOP is completely dead to me.
> I've felt it slipping away for a few years now. The establishment built the coffin, and Trump nailed the nails.
> I am no longer a Republican.


And no, I will not vote Trump. Even though he's against Hillary or Bernie.


----------



## NYC Composer

Sorry your bubble burst, Michael. The writing was on the wall. I loathe Cruz as well though, so I doubt we would have been on the same page there.

On a truly weird note- how must Carly Fiorina be feeling tonight??


----------



## chimuelo

I feel more sorry for Hillary.
She has to fight Bernie, FBI Director Comey and Trump when she wakes up tomorrow.
Every little "mis statement" she makes Trump will drive through and use the free media to force a reaction.
She'll be on defense from now until she loses again in November.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

[


chimuelo said:


> I feel more sorry for Hillary.
> She has to fight Bernie, FBI Director Comey and Trump when she wakes up tomorrow.
> Every little "mis statement" she makes Trump will drive through and use the free media to force a reaction.
> She'll be on defense from now until she loses again in November.


Trump is Hillary's buddy. I tell you, he's a Trojan Horse lib, sent to divide the Republican Party, win the nom and this enure a lib win in the General.
He is laughing his butt off right now at his supporters for falling for the charade.


----------



## chimuelo

Have a drink bro.
You'll feel better in the morning.
Cruz did one hell of a job but the last few weeks was too much for him.
I admired the way he tried to create his own breaks. 
But the conversation with the Trump supporter was the last link in the chain.
I bet Trump paid that guys house off.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> But the conversation with the Trump supporter was the last link in the chain.
> I bet Trump paid that guys house off.


What conversation? All the guy did was hurl insults. Cruz tried to talk sense to him.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'll bet Donald paid him $50 bucks for a few hours work. Think about it.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> I feel more sorry for Hillary.
> She has to fight Bernie, FBI Director Comey and Trump when she wakes up tomorrow.
> Every little "mis statement" she makes Trump will drive through and use the free media to force a reaction.
> She'll be on defense from now until she loses again in November.


So will you now that Madame President will be elected. I can already feel that fitty expanding my wallet.


----------



## chimuelo

It will be 50 well spent.
But I think the screw you DC Vote in the fall will win.


----------



## chimuelo

Hillary was eating dinnrr at a Manhattan hot spot and threw a fit.
The waiter gave her and Bill some Ice water and never returned.
She flew to the kitchen after 30 minutes and demanded the waiter explain his lack of service.
Poor waiter apologized and said we assumed you had your own server....

Ankyu


----------



## NYC Composer

Donald J. Trump became the nominee of the Republican Party of the United States.

Ankyu.


----------



## chimuelo

I cascaded 2 x TC Fireworx tonight.
Combining the horsepower of the 4 x DSP Chips into a single multi effect is awesome.
Only need 40 presets and finished 18.
Then stumbled into my family room and saw the results of the race.

A great night for me.

Ankyu


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> It will be 50 well spent.
> But I think the screw you DC Vote in the fall will win.


I wouldn't be surprised. And then will the deluded finally wake up and see that they've been worshiping the emperor and his new clothes?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Michael K. Bain said:


> Well, NYC, you were right. I am very saddened tonight. I am still stunned that so many people support. such a horrible man.
> The GOP is completely dead to me.
> I've felt it slipping away for a few years now. The establishment built the coffin, and Trump nailed the nails.
> I am no longer a Republican.



Hahah! I stopped supporting political parties years and years ago. For years I was a conservative but then the lines became completely blurred.
Free yourself up and don't support any fckng party. That way you can be far more objective. Who wants to be a member of a tribe? Being a member of a political side means you have to back them even when you know they're bollocks. Don't do it. Get out before it's too late.
In this country morons still find the royal family interesting. How fucking sad is that.

Forget sides and become apolitical.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Trump v Clinton. Well it was always on the cards.

He will have to become much more central and lie through his ass even more than Hillary to get the filthy trash vote on side. Difficult to do I would suggest.

The filthy trash vote over here will keep the UK in the EU. It's a massive section of the vote and cannot be ignored. They understand lies and living in denial. You can't win them over with truths and hard facts. It's no good being intellectual like Cruz. They don't vote for that.


----------



## NYC Composer

One of the more serpentine intellectuals I've had the displeasure to watch. He ran an impressively strategic campaign for one so loathed, but his naked power lust and opportunism trumped (sorry) most of the political weasels I've seen, and that's saying something.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry I wouldn't know, but did voters understand that Cruz was way more right wing than Trump. Trump blusters and talks the talk that the denials like to hear. Good salesman. Like Cameron.
But Cruz was lot more like an iceberg. You could only get glimpses of what was really submerged.
He's relatively young and can come back again though if he wishes.

People don't want clever. Why? Because most of any given population aren't clever. Whoosh! Sorry that one went way over my head. Whoosh! There goes another one.

You have to appeal mostly to the unclever by reaching out to their prejudices.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Or by mentioning God.


----------



## NYC Composer

Apparently, the Donald has adopted Cook Philosophy #1.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry you don't honestly think he's going to win this? Surely not. Hahah!


----------



## chimuelo

Even if Trump betrays Americans after beating those poor struggling Clintons,
Im going to vote for him just because his wife is drop dead georgeous.
Cant wait to see all of those wealthy Liberal Ambassadors recalled and fired.
Then get Soros appointees removed so we can have a functional Secret Service again.

I doubt well see anymore of Obamas family members sneaking onstage as translators for the deaf, or crazed people storming the White House, or El Chapo throwing a party with 8 balls and hookers for the DEA.

The for sale sign to donors can finally be removed.
Qualified people get the job instead of another wealthy white Liberal donor buying the position.
They sure are great representatives for the battle of wealth inequality.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Ted has left his campaign building. Always a next time Ted.


----------



## JonFairhurst

With these guys in his band, how did Cruz not win?

Eumir Deodato - piano, electric piano
Ron Carter - electric bass, bass
Stanley Clarke - electric bass
Billy Cobham - drums
John Tropea - electric guitar
Jay Berliner - guitar
Airto Moreira - percussion
Ray Barretto - congas


----------



## chimuelo

They're only missing Flora Purim.
Sure she was there watching hubby though.


----------



## JonFairhurst

BTW, this is a real product in China: The Trump toilet!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Kaisich stands down.

And mentions God.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> Kaisich stands down.
> 
> And mentions God.


Well, he did complete his mission...to stop Ted Cruz.


----------



## chimuelo

It's the main reason I don't vote for many Conservatives. I can understand traditional slogans like God Bless America, God Bless Texas, Thank God and many other sayings that come from a society that values faith.
But once Mohammed or Jesus enter the text that's where I say it's enough.

Kasich has a great record in Congress, and has even come back to the left a little as a Governor to keep in the Independent voters sphere of comfort.

But I get quite nervous in such a dangerous world where national security is a main concern, to think one in such a position might have an invisible adviser to consult with.

I hope he serves Ohio for another term. He's very good at that job.

God Bless the USA....


----------



## Soundhound

When we elect an atheist, maybe we'll be considered part of the modern world again. Till then, we and the Taliban et al are stuck in the middle ages. On good days. Cruz's ideas are despicable and frightening, but it's his loathsome sanctimony that makes me hate him.

The media won this game, dropping three cards and drawing into a royal flush. Amurika will watch with baited breath until election day, breaking advertising records all the way. Ad agencies' media buying departments are beside themselves. When Trump trundles off in November, back to being the biggest bullshit artist in the private sector, everyone will count their money and their lucky stars. 

It's astonishing to me that so many people take him seriously. Though it shouldn't. In our culture, where American Idol has replaced music, reality TV has replaced drama, no one reads books anymore, it actually makes perfect sense. An ignorant public is big business' best friend. We have cornered the market. 

But they'll never let him be President. They're greedy and murderous, but they're not stupid.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, I disagree with that last.


----------



## chimuelo

He is they Soundhound.
He's been purchasing the wealthy whites you worship for decades.


----------



## NYC Composer

Do you "worship" DJT, Chim? Personally, I don't "worship" any politicians- I just prefer and vote for some over others. Sometimes vastly. For example, I rarely prefer preening adolescent boorish misogynistic xenophobic silver spoon junior high-style insulting rich bastards with mail order Eastern Europeans model/brides.


----------



## chimuelo

I believe he met Melania at a Schumer fundraiser.
Could have been another wealthy white family man like Elliot Spitzer, or was it Anthony Weiners fundraiser..?
It doesnt matter.
He went to purchase more Liberals and scored a killer babe.
Killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

My kind of guy.....


----------



## NYC Composer

I agree, Jimmy He's your kinda guy.


----------



## NYC Composer

Where'd he meet Ivana- Mensa meeting?

I wonder what sort of trade-in value the ex's have. Does he get free plastic surgery for the new ones?


----------



## Soundhound

Some wealthy whites I admire in the political world: Christopher Hitchens (mostly because he was hilarious, had some great ideas, some dumb ones), George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, LBJ, FDR, Bernie Sanders... off the top of my head. 

Jimmy you're so deep in Reagan love, you want the left to be only corrupt, and it's just not true.


----------



## chimuelo

I was too young to admire Reagan.
I voted for him because my Union asked us to.
He freed millions of Europeans, stopped Soviet expansion, I paid off my first house, sold it and bought a 2nd with 180k in equity.
Why would I be mad at a guy who saved us from Liberal poverty.?
30 years later we hear Ronnie was evil and people got rich...
Well, I like seeing people succeed.
But if he was responsible for creating wealthy white Liberal billionaires that corrupt the system, I can see your point....

LBJ killed millions of Vietnamese and 60,000 Americans.
Not a fav of mine.
But he did pass legislation that helped raise blacks into the middle class.
Too bad Liberals took that away and now own the worlds largest plantations.

In the 1800s a black man would breed and work.
Providing security for the woman and fathering the child was taken from him. The white master took care of that for him.
Sounds just like the new Liberal plantations.

Conservatives are corrupt and serve the rich, they dont even try to hide it.
Liberals do the same thing but have such a hard time telling thier voters they need billions to win an election when Bernie and Trump do it for free.

These clowns are all history.
I want all my brothas to succeed.
I just dont see rich white lawyers and academics doing anything other than trying to spend others money, and failing over and over.

Time for a winner.
The last of the wealthy white Liberals will be removed in 2018.
Right when my exemption from Obamacare expires.
Dont see Conservatives hooking me up.

Trump will take care of me.
He already pays millions into my pension fund.

Youd figure Liberals would like him?
He gave them millions....what a bunch of whiny bitches....


----------



## NYC Composer

I wonder if he's now paying into Chinese pension funds, as his clothing line is manufactured there. So is the Ivanka line. So is wife Melania's jewelry line. America First!


----------



## chimuelo

My Make America Great Again Klansmen Hoodie was made in Malaysia.
Wealth redistribution is great.
Wonder if he is 20 trillion in debt from redistribution?
Probably not.
Another reason to have someone who succeeded at something take charge...

The Trump Toilet is great though.
Chinese guys can wipe their ass with US Dollar bills until they become valuable again under a Trump administration.....

In 2030 Trump will be on the 500 dollar bill.


----------



## NYC Composer

You could put him on the three dollar bill right now.

Speaking of money, wanna up the fitty to a hundred, since you so confident?


----------



## chimuelo

Sure.
As long as that includes her losing due to legal problems.
This is a Hillary vrs. Trump wager.
If Bernie wins I'd be betting against myself...
After hearing about the hacker gaining Blumenthals password, I'm starting to think all of those hundreds of millions Clinton took from world leaders and billionaires, having a legal way out of the race before the money is needed in the general is sure convenient.
So these are my terms.....


----------



## Soundhound

chimuelo said:


> He freed millions of Europeans, stopped Soviet expansion



I wasn't too young to despise Reagan. Your reading of the end of the Soviet Union isn't out of a history book (unless you're reading one of the rewritten tomes that racist xenophobes in Texas give our children) it's from Bill O'Reilly: "Reagan was a hero, we know that. He beat the soviets, we know that." People have been listening to this tripe for so long, they think it's true. It's not true. 



chimuelo said:


> Time for a winner.



Charlie Sheen? Someone blowing themselves in public, calling themselves a winner over and over doesn't make them a winner. The fall election isn't just going to go to Clinton, it's going to be a landslide. The closer it gets, the more real a Trump presidency begins to come into focus, the more people will sensibly run from it. It would be great if there were a political leader to upend the system, but Bernie Sanders isn't going to make it. Imagining that Donald Trump is that leader is insane. You can't know anything about the guy and think that he could ever be a responsible or capable, much less a vigorous and transformative public servant. I understand the urge: the system is bitterly poisoned. But it's wishful thinking, and it's deluded.

I'm hopeful that with the coming centrist majority in the house, the Supreme Court, and keeping the white house, the system will begin to cleanse itself. It all will have to start with the Supreme Court turning back the atrocities of the Scalia era. Reinstating voting rights, outlawing rampant, racially based voter suppression, getting money out of politics, getting corporations to pay their fair share in taxes. It'll take time, but I think the pendulum has started to swing back from the far right. We'll be carrying the scars from the damage these vermin have caused for a long time, but things are going to get better. Slowly.


----------



## chimuelo

I think you should argue with a Reagan admirer.
I was in Europe where those dumb Europeans were celebrating the evil actor.
Next thing I know Hussein got smoked.
Then I made more money because Robert Reich cut the military spending.
It was about 2004 our wage increases went to benefits instead of the envelope.
Then Liberals took over, fucked us with the ACA. invaded Libya, got their asses kicked in Iraq, Yemen and Syria.

And you expect me to argue about a dead President when I watch these losers ruining the economy...?

I can tolerate those who have no faith and believe rich white folks will save them.
But you won't convince me that I need these self serving Plantation owners.

Next time the media is forced to show another 90 people got shot in a Liberal ghetto, congratulate yourself.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Sure.
> As long as that includes her losing due to legal problems.
> This is a Hillary vrs. Trump wager.
> If Bernie wins I'd be betting against myself...
> After hearing about the hacker gaining Blumenthals password, I'm starting to think all of those hundreds of millions Clinton took from world leaders and billionaires, having a legal way out of the race before the money is needed in the general is sure convenient.
> So these are my terms.....


Mos' def. HC vs DT. Game on, full yard.


----------



## NYC Composer

"I can tolerate those who have no faith and believe rich white folks will save them.
But you won't convince me that I need these self serving Plantation owners."

Who said anything about saving? I just don't want DJT with his finger on any buttons except the ones on his Chinese made shirts.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Michael K. Bain said:


> Well, he did complete his mission...to stop Ted Cruz.



He was on a mission from God?


----------



## Soundhound

Why do you put everything on liberals (rhetorical question, I know why you do). Reagan hoodwinked people into thinking big business is on the side of the working man. Clinton caved to the right wing and jacked deregulation up. (to me he's the best Republican president of our time). Bush pushed it farther (remember the 'ownership society' or whatever that moron called it?), spent trillions on a trumped up war, cut taxes and deregulation, and the economy crashed. 

Liberal ideals didn't do that Jimmy! Centrist Democrats went along with the wave of business first, screw everyone else capitalism. But the Republicans don't go along with it, they live and breathe it. It's their god. 

If you really want the system to work for working people, fight for unions, workers rights, get rid of corporate tax loopholes, get rid of the cap on social security taxes. Electing Donald Trump to create a more egalitarian society? Come on man, you know better. If I thought there were a chance in hell you were right, I'd be glad all over (how many 60s pop references can we get into this thread?) I'd vote for the douchebag. But it's like hiring a meth head in a pharmacy, only difference is it's way more sure to end in disaster. 
How can anyone seriously consider it? 






chimuelo said:


> I think you should argue with a Reagan admirer.
> I was in Europe where those dumb Europeans were celebrating the evil actor.
> Next thing I know Hussein got smoked.
> Then I made more money because Robert Reich cut the military spending.
> It was about 2004 our wage increases went to benefits instead of the envelope.
> Then Liberals took over, fucked us with the ACA. invaded Libya, got their asses kicked in Iraq, Yemen and Syria.
> 
> And you expect me to argue about a dead President when I watch these losers ruining the economy...?
> 
> I can tolerate those who have no faith and believe rich white folks will save them.
> But you won't convince me that I need these self serving Plantation owners.
> 
> Next time the media is forced to show another 90 people got shot in a Liberal ghetto, congratulate yourself.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> Clinton caved to the right wing and jacked deregulation up. (to me he's the best Republican president of our time).


Bill may have been similar to McConnell and Boehner, people like that, but not socially conservative Republicans.
That said, I'd rather have him as pres now than Hillary or Trump.


----------



## chimuelo

Game on Lar...

Liberals and Conservatives are about to be eliminated.
Rejoice Soundhound.
Accept the Donald.
Once he empowers the middle class and makes America work again, that success can be given to the next Liberal to ruin in 2024.
My guess is Elizabeth Warren will facebook her way into power, get a sex change and become Americas 1st transvestite blond haired blue eyed Cherokee leader.


----------



## Soundhound

Very true, but caving in on the big stuff did a lot of damage (no more Glass Steagall, deregulating communications industry, etc). Don't get me wrong, I liked him, he was very smart, I thought he would be great... he just ran into the fanatical right wing and couldn't figure out a way around it. As it was he left the place in great shape, only to be completely trashed by Junior.

For me the jury's out on Hillary. She has no particular personal charm like Bill, but she's also really smart. We'll see over the next few years whether she's really a progressive or not.



Michael K. Bain said:


> Bill may have been similar to McConnell and Boehner, people like that, but not socially conservative Republicans.
> That said, I'd rather have him as pres now than Hillary or Trump.


----------



## Soundhound

Donald Trump empowering the middle class. Kurt Vonnegut never wrote a more unlikely sentence.


----------



## chimuelo

Liberals destroy the middle class.
ACA is just the latest example.
Add Liberal School loans with high interest rates so Warren and others can get 300k a year for a single class while serving as a Senator.

How did a paid protestor suddenly become a professor at Yale overnight for 6 figures?

These folks are 1%'r's and ripping off tax payers.
Yet hailed as academic geniuses.
Crony Liberal Capitalism.
Just a bunch of over paid "do as I say, not as I do" Jack wagons.

Great bunch of rich whites, so vital in helping us poor colored folk.

Sorry, got to vote for the working man.
Not rich Liberal Crony Capitalists.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey, it works for the profit preachers.We've gone past the chicken in every pot/two cars in every garage.Now it's "you too can have a yacht and a fabulous estate! You too can have a re-plasticized Slovenian model wife! You too can arrive in a helicopter! Elect MeMeMe, Donald J. Trump, and I'll show you how to be huuuuuuge!!"


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hahahh! Larry that's absolutely dreadful.

Now lookey here you boys. I'm a happy hick redneck and I live in Hicksville Arizona with my 3 wives and 14 kids. What exactly are my benefits going to be with ole Hillary as Mad Prez? ( short fer Madam President ifun you wuz wunderin )


----------



## chimuelo

Have to say though it's the first time I never saw wealthy Liberals promising those white racist Coal Miners any cash.

Better check that out with Soros before you giving money to the neighborhoods he paid to destroy.
But even after driving the price down through threats from the Bully Pulpit, I am confused...?
As soon as prices hit rock bottom the wealthy Liberal Billionaire went all in on Coal and invested his Billions..?

Just when you really start thinking, hey these rich whites might really believe in Climate Change and are trying to help everyone, then they pull a stunt like that.
Similar to knowing a month in advance where the Drilling Rigs in the Gulf Spill would flee if the President were to call for a moratorium.......
Yeah, got a months notice to bribe the gal in Brazil and others in Mexico to let him invest billions in Oil there.

For a Liberal wanting to save Earth from Fossil Fuels he's just another Gore, Styers Fossil Fuel Billionaire.
Smart folks, they have their Sheep fighting for their investments.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy are you sure you're not being paid enough by Reince? Every single thing you say is actually a critique of right wing deregulated capitalism and politics. All you do is switch in the word Liberal. Blaming inner city blight on George Soros because he's the only non right wing billionaire that comes to mind. it's Ann Coulter level stuff.


----------



## chimuelo

Nope. I'd have my own forum.
I just watch wealthy billionaires that way I know what legislation is going to passed....


----------



## chimuelo

I like Buffet but even his orders are followed.
He pays whatever Law Firm listens.
That's how the country is run.
No need wasting time listening to Ryan or Pelosi.
They're legislative lifers serving their clients.
It sure ain't us...


----------



## Soundhound

I would pay to be allowed into that forum, of course. Interesting how only 'liberal' billionaires are on your radar. The Koch brothers, for for the most obvious example, never seem to make it to your hit parade. i'm sure Rience is pleased , but I imagine their feelings are hurt.


----------



## chimuelo

Koch brothers Buffet Sussman...no difference.
They buy lawyers from which ever law firm wins.

No sense being all analog when there's also great digital gear.

Most billionaires prefer Clinton because she has a reputation for vehemently representing her clients.
Security for billionaires subordinates in Libya was excellent.
But for Ambassadors and soldiers, well they should have donated to her campaign...

When you are in a key position to empower people who vote for you because you appear to care, you should at least try to throw them a bone in the last few months.

I mean look at Obama.
E Cigarettes are going to be regulated by the EPA....thank God.
Now men can go into women's bathrooms....big deal.
I've been doing that all my life.
Didn't need permission.
When you're looking for trim what better place to go.
I worked a Piano bar where the Grand was by the ladies room.
I was invited quite often.


----------



## chimuelo

Happy Cinco Dr Mayo you pinche gringos...


----------



## Soundhound

Salud, muchachos.


----------



## NYC Composer

Orale!


----------



## NYC Composer

If by some small chance DJT is elected, and if by a smaller chance he is actually allowed to implement his deportation policies, I will be getting arrested in acts of civil disobedience, human blockades and such. I've never been a big marcher, but I'll be on that line.


----------



## Baron Greuner

The only thing Americans need to know about Trump is that he's a salesman. Salesmen will say anything. He's not a statesman, he's a salesman. In my experience salesmen say one thing and do another, or worse, don't do anything at all. Think I'm making it up?
Take a look at 6 years of Cameron. Another salesman. He promised the British voters in 2010 he would get immigration down just as one example. He then promptly formed a coalition with the liberals who are arguably more left wing than labour, and probably madder than shithouse rats at the same time. Immigration has risen year on year in this country drastically.
The net result of that coalition for the liberal party was the virtual destruction of their entire party. Predicable btw! The Tory party didn't give a fuck. That's coalitions. Coalitions are opt outs for political cowards. And the Tory back benchers are a bunch of cowardly assholes too, who talk the talk in corridors but like all Tories have no guts or stomach for a fight.
He then went into the 2015 election promising pretty much everything he had promised before and couldn't even get Bills through the House of Lords (which should be banned imv). He is not a statesman, he is a salesman. He also indicated that the stock market would rise under Tory leadership in 2010. It hasn't moved at all in 6 years. That obviously has detrimentally affected stuff like pensions. He is a fucking crap leader. No wonder Scotland and Wales are making moves to pull away from this kind of thing

I don't want to be seen as telling Americans what is what in their own country because that's a drag. So I have to put up British comparisons because history always repeats itself in politics. You need leaders. People that don't have a gazillion hidden and alternative issues like these fucking people have.

Trump will probably be like that in all honesty.

That said, he has about as much chance of beating Hillary as I have. None.


----------



## Baron Greuner

And don't think that Hillary will be any good either!


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## NYC Composer

I agree with everything you said Baron, with only this as a caveat-in my experience, all politicians are salesmen and only very rarely are they statesmen as well.


----------



## Baron Greuner

As I said Larry, history in politics just goes on repeating itself. These people have hidden agendas coming out of their asses.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> If by some small chance DJT is elected, and if by a smaller chance he is actually allowed to implement his deportation policies, I will be getting arrested in acts of civil disobedience, human blockades and such. I've never been a big marcher, but I'll be on that line.


What I find funny specifically about Donnie's plan is that he wants to deport all of the illegals and then bring back those who want to legalize themselves. That seems ridiculous.
One of the ways I differ from most conservatives: I don't understand why we can't just put those non-criminal, working immigrants who have been here for a while on the track to citizenship? If they are known to be good people who contribute, what's the harm? I'd much rather my tax dollars go to that than either NEA.


----------



## chimuelo

They'll never be deported.
Just attention getting to win.
Folks don't understand that once a politician gets elected they can count on Congress to blame.
At best attention to the dangers of open borders is revealed as a small minority of folks are selling narcotics and commuting violent crimes.
They get deported and come back across since that is what Liberals and Conservatives at the Chamber of Commerce want.
Billions of dollars are spent to keep things as they are.
Let the workers come in and keep the hard core criminals out.
Folks aren't asking much. Just some security.

Besides who would harvest the gringos food?


----------



## chimuelo

Not a single person running for office can ever keep their promises.
That's the game but Sheep believe whatever they're told.

The best thing we could hope for is Bernie to win.
Trump already did his job and exposed then destroyed fake conservatives.
It's up to the FBI and Bernie to rid us of the wealthy white plantation owners.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> What I find funny specifically about Donnie's plan is that he wants to deport all of the illegals and then bring back those who want to legalize themselves. That seems ridiculous.
> One of the ways I differ from most conservatives: I don't understand why we can't just put those non-criminal, working immigrants who have been here for a while on the track to citizenship? If they are known to be good people who contribute, what's the harm? I'd much rather my tax dollars go to that than either NEA.


It's one of the singular and underexplored issues of the conservative platform-authoritarianism over practicality. These people have done wrong-they must be punished, otherwise civilization crumbles.


----------



## chimuelo

Baloney.

They view them as cheap labor, C of Commerce lobbies for open borders.
Liberals view them as constituents.
The reason nothing gets done is lower level courts are flooded.
Its a crisis created by politicians who want things the way they are.

Green Card holders number around 3 million.
I worked with 100s of these guys in Vegas.
Took them 9 years to get citizenship.
They are great people.

They also do not care much for the Cholo gangbangers.
Actually that group of folks hates Americans but come and go carrying loads of meth, heroin and crack to the addicts here in the USA.

Very dangerous people.
They know when they get arrested they can come right back the next week.

Liberals and Conservatives do not want to alter things as they see the benefits of the millions that work.

No white or black kids would ever do the work these folks do.
So all of the peace and good will speeches are meaningless. Nothing will change.


----------



## NYC Composer

What's baloney? The idea that Conservatives believe in an authoritarian ideal and that Trump has tapped into that with his statements on deportation? The latter is from his own statements.

Trump isn't just talking about deporting gangbangers, he's talking about deporting 12 million people. If he's lying, isn't he the same as those lying liberals you deride?


----------



## chimuelo

Chamber of Commerce is Conservative, so was Reagan. They regulate the numbers and the policy has worked.
By allowing more in you see the benefits of having them undocumented.
Paying fines is the latest "bi partisan" agreement.
Obamas plan actually.

Make no mistake the deep state folks know exactly what theyre doing.
The people Trump tapped into are of all walks of life.
They want the lawlessness to stop as they live amongst the undocumented and it has a direct effect on thier life.
You think rich politicians kids sit amongst the immigrants children in class or serve with them in the armed forces?

I even pay an additional 10 bucks a month now to cover damages fron uninsured drivers.

Its a huge problem for some of us, but of course legislation passed in DC never effects the lawyers.
They make money while the undocumented and the voters live through this limbo bull shit.


----------



## NYC Composer

You are agreeing with me. The conservative platform is authoritarian. Law and order. Send them back, they broke the law, they came here illegally. Screw the practicality and the cost, they have to go back. Criminals, rapists. Your ten dollars a month-horrifying!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Trump won't send anyone anywhere. These guys, Cameron is the same, talk the talk but then never do anything remotely of what they said. It's an historical fact. They say things because people want to hear it. They never implement a fraction of what is said at the hustings.
How many times have you bought something from a salesman?


----------



## chimuelo

Obama is the first President in years to take action via Executive Order.
Couldnt do it during the Super Majority as wealthy white Liberals have big mansions in all white neighborhoods that need maintenance.
Doing it via fiat kicks the can down the road.
Same with no boots on the ground.
Troops had to wear Tennis Shoes.
Hispanics know theyre being used.
Trump at least has green card support as we see in Nevada.
They dont protest dince they make 50 bucks an hour.

Trump has already created jobs though.
Just look at all of the MoveOn protestors in Northern Mexico......sorry...meant Southern California with a job now. Moms bring thier kids with them like Ferguson.
Brilliant.

Truth is they cant vote. But Jerry Brown will fix that.
Giving them Licenses. So Trump will get 45% in most States.

Folks dont understand that Mexicans dedpise Cholos and Pinche Sarotays.
Google that if you want.
Very derogotory name for Central Americans.
You have to be hispanic or a Tradesmen to know these things.
But the media will be shamed this time by Mexicans getting a mic and interview.
This time thier demands will be halving the time for green card holders since they have Trade Union organizing money.

Just letting you gringos in on the real deal wealthy whites ignore or are unaware of since they dont speak Spanish and dont know the diffetence between Cinco de Mayo and Independence by defeating Napolean at Vera Cruz.

Obama has done well at making this a GOP problem.
They will fuvk it up and Trump made things worse for them.
Hispanics are macho, so are blacks.
Zen Master says we'll see.....


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> What's baloney? The idea that Conservatives believe in an authoritarian ideal and that Trump has tapped into that with his statements on deportation?


Trump doesn't resonate with conservatives. We conservatives are the ones saying we'll never vote for him. Trump helped fund the movement that tried to destroy the Tea Party.


----------



## Baron Greuner

What makes me laugh is I was watching Newsnight the other evening and they had Rubio's main adviser on. He was adamant that he was voting for Hillary in the election because of Trump. That's actually hysterical. I'm not really sure that Americans are really sure about what the hell they're doing when it comes to this election.

Take yesterdays UK elections, in particular the London Mayor one. We had a Muslim and a Jewish guy fighting it out. The Jewish guy went in with a hate campaign against the Muslim guy. Backfired very badly. The Muslim guy wins easily and is new Mayor. The Jewish guy was favourite to win.

I'm betting that campaign didn't come from the Jewish guy. It came from 10 Downing Street. That's what you get when you deal with salesmen.


----------



## chimuelo

They don't.
They all talk shit and whine like little bitches because the "experts" still never calculate the American Liar which is making them look stupid at the exit polls.

After Eric Holder freed the Black Panthers that intimated whites and hispanics at the voting polls, nobody in their right mind tells the truth to these data sharing maggots.

Trump will defeat all white Liberals, they just haven't figured it out yet as they surround themselves with ass kissers and inhalers of fecal matter.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Exit Polls! HAHAHA!

The General Election of 2015 in the UK was the biggest poll pile of shit you ever saw. They were so far out. That was laughable because these assholes get paid huge amounts of money from interested parties, particularly the media and were absolutely miles out. The only guy I heard getting it right believe it not, was Mick Jagger. It was only when the exit polls emerged that they realised they were wearing the emperors new clothes. You wonder who the fuck they ask? My cats probably.

Even Cameron went into shock when he won.


----------



## chimuelo

Baron you should know I despise the political class.
Conservativs and Liberals are a despicable breed of human.

Wealthy white Liberals are emptying out thier jails of Solar Panel builders into our neighborhoods just trying to win an election and maintain thier Master/Slave role.
Naturally thier donors and themselves live in gated white Liberal communities.
So Clooneys wife or Chelsea Clinton will never feel the gazing eyes of these unemployable narcotics dealers rapists or murderers.
They risk losing thier single mother cash cow constituents but to them losing our security is worth the risk.
Funny that Hillarys super predators will now vote for her.
Even funnier if a single mom stills sees her as a viable candidate.

Conservatives want to send your sons and daughters to clean up thier mess in Libya Syria Iraq Yemen and Somalia.

They swear to fight on to the last drop of your blood.

We should listen to Shakespeare and round up the lawyers.
Send them as divorce lawyers to the middle east.
Our problems in the Middle East would be over after a hockey season.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> Naturally thier donors and themselves live in gated white Liberal communities.
> So Clooneys wife or Chelsea Clinton will never feel the gazing eyes of these unemployable narcotics dealers rapists or murderers.



3 likes for that one Jimmy!


----------



## chimuelo

I almost wish a military coup would happen from the lawlessness these 2 Crime Families cause us.
I belong to the middle class independents of all races religions and cultures. We are united and we can make anyone a winner when we vote.
The worshippers of these 2 groups of God's say I am low information or racist or some other jive shit to shame me.
C'mon chim, be reasonable.

I'm sorry that time has passed.


----------



## Soundhound

<Obama is the first President in years to take action via Executive Order.>
<After Eric Holder freed the Black Panthers that intimated whites and hispanics at the voting polls,>
<Wealthy white Liberals are emptying out thier jails of Solar Panel builders into our neighborhoods just trying to win an election and maintain thier Master/Slave role.>

This is timeless stuff Jimmy. Makes the hill people in Deliverance seem like members of the Algonquin round table by comparison. If no one has yet created a trophy featuring a tin foil hat, I will get on it right away and send to you soon as possible.


----------



## chimuelo

Well tell me what is your take on why every poll in 2012, 2014 and even last summer is wrong..?
Why did the Liberals get removed en masse every election after that, even though they touted victory at their fake polls.

Nothing more than fake polls, the same that tried to show Hillary winning in every State, then as the primary day draws near the numbers suddenly shift towards Bernie.

Conservatives are no better.
Their pollsters are wrong too and people can see this over and over.
Only recently have the Frank Lutz and other over paid shills started getting more accurate results.

Add to that fact that Snowden showed everyone what was going on, and the IRS is targeting certain political groups and you get millions of Americans who will lie because it's nobody damn business who you vote for until the results are tallied.
Even then I would assign Pygmys with painful venomous blow darts to watch over these dirtbag political hacks.

Remember when Boston Liberals freaked out about Scott Brown..?
Why did no "experts" take any heat on that complete goat phuck bag of lies...?


----------



## chimuelo

For the record I like Obama and I like all of our Presidents right or wrong.
Obama upset the status quo so much that everyone can see where other older policies were useless.

ACA is a joke, but now somebody must make it better somehow.
Result, we have coverage when we lose our job instead of that COBRA crap where everything is covered, but only after authorization.
Pre existing conditions was the most important piece.

Cuba.
Great move since he cannot close Guantanamo.
Besides Cubans are great people sadly trapped by gangsters and thier hit squads.
Iran.
Same thing. 
People are suffering under the supreme spinach chins.
At least now they know somebody tried to give them a better future.
Plus its entrance into the oil market keeps OPEC in line.

I could go on.
I could tell you the bull shit and crony capitalism during his watch. But whatever gang gets elected gets most of the cash. The other lawyers are less valuable since they have little power.
Cant tell you how pleased I was to see Paul Ryan vote no no no on everything.
But then crawled back to Uncle Joe gravelling for a few million to give to his investors during the infrastructure stimulus that never built anything.

So you see I have no horse in this race.
I equally despise these academics and lawyers.
Its why any outsider smart enough to remove Congress in the next election is my choice.

Bernie will use the bully pulpit and media to bring heat on these bums.
Trump will simply fire them or use federal agencies like Obama did.

You might even joy it too.
You cant be mad about that.
All your liberals got whacked.
Just GOP lawyers there now.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, you're so convinced this will go your way that we have a bet on it. If by some weird coincidence it doesn't go the way you're describing, what will you say then? "Hillary stole the thing", "the fix was in", "liberal conspiracy"?

I know what I'll say if you win- "guess I was wrong, and that sucks."


----------



## Baron Greuner

Oh man. This thing is a very close call. Whomsoever wins the bet, feel lucky!

Edit. Sorry I'm watching Henry VI and went a bit Shakespearean there.


----------



## chimuelo

No Larry.
In all honesty it's a long shot.

But since Bernie can't close the deal, maybe a purchaser of Liberals can...
Besides it's only 100 sampled sounds, not money.


----------



## NYC Composer

100 VERY UNIQUE sampled sounds.


----------



## Soundhound

<Obama is the first President in years to take action via Executive Order.>

It's just, when you say stuff like this, it's a buzzkill for the rest of the soliloquy. Please be more careful when cutting and pasting from Breitbart in the future.

Because, well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order


----------



## chimuelo

My bad.
I meant in regards to immigration.


----------



## NYC Composer

I kinda figured that.


----------



## Soundhound

Cool, and this one?

<After Eric Holder freed the Black Panthers that intimated whites and hispanics at the voting polls,>


----------



## NYC Composer

(Well, they did-there were 4 or them)


----------



## Soundhound

The implication is that Holder et al let militants out of jail to intimidate voters, which isn't true. In a time when black voters are the target of rampant voter suppression by the gop, a genuine travesty, this kind of obfuscation is the kind of crap that sean hannity comes up with. 

The other issue is a demonizing of the black panthers, which was a reaction to the vehement, murderous right wing racist push back against the civil rights act in the 60s. We need more black panthers, not less.


----------



## NYC Composer

We need more Black Panthers with the same community activism, less rhetoric and without the militarization here in 2016. Don't wanna see no white mountain men armed, don't want to see no Black Panthers walking around open carry.


----------



## Baron Greuner

We need Walter Cronkite is case there's bad news coming.


----------



## NYC Composer

Walter did not choose cake.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I miss Walter.


----------



## Soundhound

I miss Walter and Brinkley and Edward r Murrow for sure. I am so not worried about black panthers. they are a reaction to murderous oppression and racism. I'm worried about oppression and racism, which has a long and deep history in this country. voting for Donald trump is an insult to everyone who has ever fought against it.


----------



## Soundhound

on a little road trip today, today's stop includes manzanar...


----------



## Soundhound




----------



## chimuelo

Man I really feel sorry for you guilty whites.
I use to love the Knights of Europe, the Vikings, Spartans and course Mohammed Ali and Poncho Villa.
All heros of world war 2, yes even Rommel and Zhukov.
Bravery, honor, the way of the soldier.
Now I see whiny little putos cower in fear from fat broads chanting black lives matter.

Dont be mad at us hispanics but we have to remove yuze guys from power.
You just cant do anything right.
Your kids have fake degrees, so bad USA has to import people to cover our lack of Scientists and Computer Science majors.

Too bad actually.
White folks ran the world for a long time.
The lack of morals, the break down of the 2 parent family where government replaces the father.
You had it all but over educated yourselves into stupidity.

We should thank the President for all of the divisions for re election purposes.
Made it easy for us.
As goes Californis, so goes the nation....

Esta Luego Cabrons


----------



## Soundhound

And Donald Trump is going to make that happen.


----------



## NYC Composer

Don't worry Chimmy-once we get you into the internment camps, you'll learn to love us.

Actually, I'm Jewish, so the Klan doesn't really consider me white. I'm not feeling too guilty either. Maybe you're speaking to others.

I AM trying to figure out how the Thomas Paine quote led you to your most recent verbal adventure though.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I dunno. Jimmy has a point.

Turns out that Cameron ran Zac Goldsmiths Mayor of London campaign. Hahaha! Ran a hate campaign against a muslim when his candidate is jewish.

And this is the guy that the British will listen to when it comes to the Eu referendum in 6 weeks. This is the guy that makes decisions for Britain. This is the guy that the majority voted for in the last election. That's about as brain dead as you can get.


----------



## NYC Composer

Right-NO MORE WHITE GUYS!!!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC, you may be sending me that $5 after all. I do not believe that Trump will make it out of the convention as the nominee. I'm not so sure it will be Cruz, but I don't think it will be Trump.


----------



## Baron Greuner

You and Larry have had a $5 bet? 

Cheesus lads. Take it easy!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> You and Larry have had a $5 bet?
> 
> Cheesus lads. Take it easy!


Better than a $5 bet. He said he'd send me $5 if Trump didn't win the nom. That's the only terms.


----------



## chimuelo

Yuze guys dont know the pains we go through trying to keep our families together here in the States.
We have to keep a close watch on our sons, remind them they have a Penis lest they become a Ricky Martin(ez).
The women are offered huge mounts of benefits if they get rid of the men.
Now we have to walk our daughters to the restroom since Americans demand that men dressed as women get to share the restroom.
Then our daughters are being taught to become ho's thanks to videos of slutty role models.

Ain't easy being a hispanic in black white brown red and yellow racist America.


----------



## Soundhound

Oh I think he's taking the nomination alright, as has been said before here, he's the id monster the gop Fox News right wing religious nexus has created over the last 35 years. As has also been said, he's just a salesman, a miserable businessman, a pathetic negotiator, but a born salesman. And he's telling the low information right wing exactly what they want to hear. He hasn't had any competition to this point. Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Marco Rubio et al, none of them are substantial in any regard, most of them can't be taken seriously, and he knew enough not to. The general election will be an entirely different thing. The spoiled frat boy crap isn't gonna fly, he's gonna get his ass handed to him by a decidedly non charismatic, though massively overqualified opponent.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Jimmy remember The Alamo!


----------



## chimuelo

What did Davy Crockett tell Jim Bowie when he looked over the wall and saw 5000 Mexicans advancing in formation?



CONCRETE.....!!!!!


Tradesmen joke, you'd have to see the top deck on a Tower when the 5 yard buckets are swinging overhead...


----------



## chimuelo

Chicago protesters are upset and protesting outside of a Liberal Hedge Funds Corporate headquarters.
Fear not, the wealthy white Liberal Queen has promised to reign in Hedge Fund CEOs like her Son n Law and The Biden family offshore hedge fund.

Thankfully we have rich white liberals to help us fight wealth inequality.
Kerry Clinton Gore Reid and other advocates swear to help us low information poor folks.
They just need 8 more years to consolidate.....


----------



## Baron Greuner

Jimmy I am now leaving the Waitrose restaurant and am heading home. But for now, I am so glad you never say 'off of' like so many white liberals insist on doing.


----------



## chimuelo

It's not their fault.
They were products of a free education.
Us Catholics while not being very religious, actually dedicate ourselves to education vrs. Liberal indoctrination.
Just listen to these poor guilty bastards.
Safe spaces, priviliges, micro aggression and other pansy stuff.
I think having Sister Switzer beat me with a yardstick taught me how to lie better than a Clinton Course at some College.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> Oh I think he's taking the nomination alright, as has been said before here, he's the id monster the gop Fox News right wing religious nexus


Wrong. It's the devout Christians in the party who are leading the #nevertrump revolt. For all the talk of the "evangelical" support for Trump, studies show that the vast majority of those don't attend church regularly. And while church attendance doesn't make someone a Christian, it is an important measure of how seriously people take their faith. The exception to that measure of course is that the elderly and the sick often can't attend church.
I can tell you that most of the Trump supporters who argue with me don't give a flip about religion and are often very dismissive of it.
Most of the conservatives in the party are rejecting Trump left & right, and he returned the favor by saying "This is called the Republican party. It’s not called the Conservative Party."


----------



## chimuelo

Praise The Lord...


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Praise The Lord...


You trying to help prove my point?


----------



## chimuelo

Yes.
Only God or superior mixed race racists can save the USA.
God first.
Then us folks who make sure you have good food on the table when you say Grace.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> Us Catholics while not being very religious, actually dedicate ourselves to education vrs. Liberal indoctrination.



Hahaha! That's actually quite true. Out off all the religious clubs in the world, we are supposed to be right up there on the holier than thou front, but unbeknownst to all heathens, the reality is very different.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Yes.
> Only God or superior mixed race racists can save the USA.


Don't be ridiculous. I made no claim that Christians were better than non-Christians. I was simply rebuffing Soundhound's assertion that it is the religious right that support Trump. And when you mockingly types "Praise The Lord", it serevd as a shining example of my point that Trump supporters often mock faith.



chimuelo said:


> Then us folks who make sure you have good on the table when you say Grace.


I assume that was a typo and you intended to type "food". If so, I say to you: Pure crap. Non-Christians work no harder than Christians.


----------



## Baron Greuner

You can't say crap to Jimmy! WTF?

Jimmy stop talking crap.


----------



## chimuelo

Totally agree with you Mike.
I respect tradition and faith of all kinds.
Consider me a Christian soldier when I say praise the Lord.

When somebody smacks you, before you can turn your cheek I'll drop kick him.
Hispanics are Christians Mike.
Liberals take on faith at their own peril, trust me on this one.
Hispanics will save the USA from such Liberators, especially the free speech haters that teach our subsidized youth.

Were just waiting for guilty whites to give everything away.
Then we will outnumber white, black, indian and asian racists.
By 2024 public schools will teach math and reading again.
No more gender awareness classes, or sex education.
All that did was turn people into different genders,
and cause widespread out of wedlock breeding communities.

FWIW it's pronounced Hey Zeus....


----------



## Soundhound

Reagan brought the radical evangelicals into the gop hate tent just as Nixon brought in the racists who resented the civil rights movement. Ted Cruz is a wonderful example of the modern American taliban.

jimmy your guilty white liberal thing is an old Lee Atwater trope that was scorched earth nonsense when he came up with it and is even more preposterous today. it's the liberals, the people fighting for minimum wage and civil rights that are oppressing the working man! I don't think anyone has bought it (aside from the Santorum base of the gop) since Cheney and his boys single handedly destroyed the country, its economy and ya standing in the world. For someone who's not a Reagan fan Jimmy, you sure do follow the big business prayer book awfully closely! Reince must pay way better than I thought!


----------



## chimuelo

Soundhound.
Liberals talk all of the warm and fuzzy stuff. Then they go back to fundraising and won't answer the phone.

Trump will invest in infrastructure.
Not like the Liberal 1.2 TR Dollar shovel ready jobs.

It will create the new Hispanic middle class and make America Great Again through growth instead of fast food jobs and food stamps.

As a brown skinned racist I will bite my lip and vote with the KKK and black Indian Asian white racists. 

Liberals can stay in the air conditioning as we send thousands to Law School from the money generated.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Totally agree with you Mike.
> I respect tradition and faith of all kinds.
> Consider me a Christian soldier when I say praise the Lord.



Oh then I apologize profusely. I thought you were mocking me.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> Reagan brought the radical evangelicals into the gop hate tent just as Nixon brought in the racists who resented the civil rights movement. Ted Cruz is a wonderful example of the modern American taliban.


There you go with that ridiculous claim again.


----------



## Soundhound

Which of those absolutely historical facts (unless you don't know any actual history) do you see as a ridiculous claim?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> Which of those absolutely historical facts (unless you don't know any actual history) do you see as a ridiculous claim?


Umm...how is your statement "Ted Cruz is a wonderful example of the modern American taliban" a historical fact?


----------



## chimuelo

It isn't historical, but whacko Liberal Professors teach that in their Hitler Youth Class known as Journalism.

The professor below is a real Freak making 6 figures to create more victims.
It's only a matter of time before white folks just fall to pieces making it easy for us working folks to take over every aspect of this crumbling society.

These folks brought us the Donald.
For that, we are truly grateful.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Naw. These folks brought us the Donald...


----------



## chimuelo

Obviously another victim of racial division promoted by Liberals to distract Sheep from the great success stories in Ukraine, Crimea, Syria Yemen Egypt Iraq and Somalia.
But I must give the Liberals credit for their huge success story in Iran.
Some of the best negotiations I ever saw.
Must make the Donald envious to see such skillfully crafted deal making.

Usually we lose much more than 150,000,000000.....


----------



## Soundhound

Of course that's not historical, that's my opinion. Whoops sorry it was in with the other two points, my bad. It's also hyperbole, for those unable and/or unwilling to spot it. Michael when I've gotten in discussions with you before, you always disappear at some point, last time it was during our discussion about abortion. I expect history will repeat itself, but hope springs eternal!

The phrase the American Taliban is hyperbole in an attempt to point out just one of the many dangers posed by the radical right wing in American politics. Ted Cruz wraps himself in christianity the way so many right wingers wrap themselves in the American flag. As an atheist, I find it abhorrent. Actually I'm an anti-theist (see Hitchens) but that's on a personal level. I believe everyone should have the freedom to believe whatever they believe. You believe in Jesus Christ? Terrific. You believe in Bokonon? Also wonderful. The second you want me to participate in any way, you've got a fight on your hands. Separation of church and state is one of the things that makes this country worthwhile, and Cruz and his like chafe at the notion. 

The other two points are historical fact, which I assume you agree with.



Michael K. Bain said:


> Umm...how is your statement "Ted Cruz is a wonderful example of the modern American taliban" a historical fact?


----------



## Soundhound

So you're against learning. Interesting. But it also makes terrific sense. Fox News and the right wing it speaks to are well served by an ignorant public. The less people know, the more someone like Donald Trump can seem like a good idea. 



chimuelo said:


> It isn't historical, but whacko Liberal Professors teach that in their Hitler Youth Class known as Journalism.
> 
> The professor below is a real Freak making 6 figures to create more victims.
> It's only a matter of time before white folks just fall to pieces making it easy for us working folks to take over every aspect of this crumbling society.
> 
> These folks brought us the Donald.
> For that, we are truly grateful.


----------



## chimuelo

I already learned about the Hitler Youth programs in Catholic School.
We admired the complete and thorough indoctrination, but had a good enough education to realize that would fail in a social system that values the individual over the slave society.

Maybe you should visit one of the many crumbling schools or great society neighborhoods.
If you get out alive you can evaluate the benefits of such an education system.
Poor folks have the choice of working in a fast food joint, or selling drugs, joining a gang, as even they are smart enough to realize a Liberal indoctrination is useless.

If it was so great why do wealthy white Liberals send thier kids to Catholic or Private schools.

Again the do as I say not as I do white Liberals are a success story since they are exempt from the programs they impose on others.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> Of course that's not historical, that's my opinion. Whoops sorry it was in with the other two points, my bad. It's also hyperbole, for those unable and/or unwilling to spot it. Michael when I've gotten in discussions with you before, you always disappear at some point, last time it was during our discussion about abortion.



I "disappear" when it's obvious the discussion's not going anywhere. Do you expect us to talk about these things forever? Do you enjoy beating dead horses?



Soundhound said:


> The phrase the American Taliban is hyperbole in an attempt to point out just one of the many dangers posed by the radical right wing in American politics. Ted Cruz wraps himself in christianity the way so many right wingers wrap themselves in the American flag. As an atheist, I find it abhorrent. Actually I'm an anti-theist (see Hitchens) but that's on a personal level. I believe everyone should have the freedom to believe whatever they believe. You believe in Jesus Christ? Terrific. You believe in Bokonon? Also wonderful. The second you want me to participate in any way, you've got a fight on your hands.



Explain what you mean by "wraps himself in christianity the way so many right wingers wrap themselves in the American flag".



Soundhound said:


> Separation of church and state is one of the things that makes this country worthwhile, and Cruz and his like chafe at the notion.



Separation of church and state is to prevent Government form interfering with religion.




Soundhound said:


> The other two points are historical fact, which I assume you agree with.



I see your perspective on history. I don't know that it's "historical fact". I don't know enough about it, But why should I trust your perspective of it over Jimmy's? I know that I don't agree with you on anything but Trump, so that's not a good starting point for believing that your perspective is "historical fact".


----------



## Soundhound

I think Jimmy was just talking about the American Taliban thing. Don't take my word on anything Michael, read up for yourself. Nixon's Southern Strategy, and Reagan/Evangelicals/or right wing religious movement, etc.


----------



## chimuelo

If Carter would have won a 2nd term I would have never been able to buy a house.
We would have had another Liberal economy where the wealth goes to the top 1%.
So Evangelicals helped out immensely.
But Jim and Tammy should have never hired Jessica Hahn.


----------



## chimuelo

In Liberal economies a young person cannot survive.
Liberal trade deals moved thier jobs to Mexico with help from Liberals taxing them out of the cities.
Now entire families of whites asians indians and blacks need grandmas check, as that helps cover the 31 year old student downstairs.
Just like they do in 3rd world countries.


----------



## Soundhound

You can't just rewrite history Jimmy. Well, you can, the right wing does it all day long. The economy has been stronger under Democratic rule throughout our lifetime. Looks like Elizabeth Warren has been unleashed to go after Trump. He's going to be a bloody pulp, she knows what she's talking about, he has absolutely no idea.


----------



## chimuelo

What a joke.
A facebook queen with zero accomplishments except her 1% status from ripping off tax payers getting a salary from us twice.

300,000 for a single class and 275,000 from us for blabbing her mouth all day.
A blonde haired blue eyed Cherokee.....
What a pathetic bunch of Liberal victim shit.

Hey let her run for all of the offended putos, have Rachel Doezal as her VP.
She says shes black and gets a tan where Boehner does, but her white parents say shes a freak.

Unleashing her..?
So are you insinuating she is a dog..?
I think shes another academic bum mooching off of tax payers.
If she ever does anything other than get courage from avatars on facebook let me know.
Until then shes another liberal con artist victim.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy that's all such an utter crock. Where do you get this stuff? Do you know what she's done over the last 30 years? Or do you only know what you get from Breitbart and Ann Coulter? I can't believe you would actually read that tripe, but how else could you possibly come up with all that about Warren? It's utter nonsense. It's got nothing, nothing at all to do with reality. And yes, they are absolutely unleashing her. Not unlike when Bill Clinton came to prominence in the early 90s. The democrats had spent years unable to stick to their guns. Clinton was a pitbull, and he knew what he was talking about. He was exactly what was needed to combat the right wing lies. Same thing with Warren. She's going to tear Trump to pieces.


----------



## chimuelo

Look hound, I use to admire her years ago when nobody knew her.
Great debater on issues like why our system works great when theres balance and no party has a majority.
Super Majority is a prime example of that.
Remember she oversaw TARP.
Great success story there too as she made sure 350 billion were returned earlier than predicted.
Sure she is perfect for getting rid of crony capitalism.

But she has recrafted her message over the last 20 years too many different directions for me to see as some great leader.
Her experience as a consumer advocate was appreciated.
But the 110,000,000,000 taken in fines from Wall Street has not yet been returned to those losing 50% or more in equity.
So even when advocates succeed we dont see the money.
Disappears into unaccountable Liberal land.
But taking away citizens united without taking out the corrupt public union money means shes speaking for investors.
Fake liberalism means my billionaires and millions taken from taxpayers through public unions is legal but your billionaires and corporate cash is corrupt.

Thats the message I keep hearing from all of these mouthpieces.

Trump will ignore her in a few more days or silence her with her past.
He has dirt on every liberal that comes to his country clubs and golf courses.
He watches liberals and conservatives eat dinner together share thier yachts with investors gather with call girls or male escorts. He has them by the balls.
November is close.
Smart folks save thier best for last.

Warren will nibble away on facebook where her best work is done lately.
I bet she actually despises Washington but the pay is too hood.


----------



## NYC Composer

You are so confused about unions, Jimmy. Yep, they're often corrupt, yep, they've done a lot for you (and me), yes they're difficult in many ways, but without them the great spirit of Capitalism and The Free Market runs over working people like a big fat cigar smoking Monopoly card banker style lawnmower, and you damn well know it, because that's what happened BEFORE unions existed.


----------



## chimuelo

Sure.
But these federal liberal unions rip off tax payers as bad as wall street.
I belong to unions where workers are compensated for thier work.
Not reliable on how much they can refunnel back to politicians to pay for something we already paid for that didnt get done right the first time.
Money laundering is illegal for any of us guys.


----------



## Soundhound

I didn't think you would be reading those people, and I'm interested in your take on Warren. But how does any of that add up to her as a mouthpiece for big money? It doesn't add up. And Citizens United is a nightmare, however it can be gotten rid of, do it. Meanwhile unions have less membership and influence than any time in our lifetime.

The idea that Trump has dirt on liberal opponents sounds like wishful thinking. And did you see the guys he's brought in to run strategy and raising money? He's in exactly the same pond as the people he rails against. If he were truly a brilliant visionary, that would be something else. But he's not. You say so yourself. He's huckster, a snake oil salesman, he's completely and utterly full of it. He's not the guy who is going to remake the system. I wish he were, but what he really is skilled at is skimming off the top.


----------



## NYC Composer

My favorite non-racist declaration so far is how we (the U.S.) can threaten to default on our national debt and thereby negotiate a lower interest rate. That is some brilliant thinking-I wonder why no one ever figured it out before? Maybe because it would send the entire world (us included) into economic free fall? Oh yeah, probably that.


----------



## chimuelo

Actually we have to default.
Then China and Saudi Arabia would agree to sell the debt.
Timothy Geitners book mentioned many scenarios.

He was smart to get out as he knew nobody would ever be prosecuted on Wall Street.
Obama made so many promises he knew he couldnt keep.
Like no lobbyists.
CSPAN exposing soecial interest groups, yadda yadda.

Geitner knows thier disasterous policies would kill jobs and wanted no part of it.
Wrote the book while he headed the treasury department.

Its called covering your ass.


----------



## chimuelo

My 2 favorite Treasury Departmeny guys look alot alike.


----------



## Soundhound

<<I "disappear" when it's obvious the discussion's not going anywhere. Do you expect us to talk about these things forever? Do you enjoy beating dead horses?>>

I was trying to be polite. The last discussion we had, about abortion was heated at first, then it moved on to being substantive and we were getting somewhere. As I recall, you made several points. I came back with a long argument, addressing all of those points. You never responded. You disappear when you don't know how to respond. Apparently you do this not infrequently. 

<<Explain what you mean by "wraps himself in christianity the way so many right wingers wrap themselves in the American flag".>>

Well I could cut and paste his entire campaign for the presidency, but that would be a bit much. I'll gather a bucketful over the next day or two and post. (I'm on vacation, theoretically). 

<<Separation of church and state is to prevent Government form interfering with religion.>>

This is what the right wing media has been telling their base for a generation. It's nothing of the sort. The purpose is to allow the free exercise of religion, and to keep religion out of government. Theocracies are primitive, frightful things, and thankfully we have powerful protections against such a thing. The first settlers here were radical fundamentalists, they didn't chop people's heads off and send videos out of it, they burned people at the stake. 

>>I see your perspective on history. I don't know that it's "historical fact". I don't know enough about it, But why should I trust your perspective of it over Jimmy's? I know that I don't agree with you on anything but Trump, so that's not a good starting point for believing that your perspective is "historical fact".>>

I can't see the previous posts, but didn't you say this before and I answered? Maybe I only saw this part of it. At any rate, once again: You shouldn't trust anyone's perspective but your own, well informed take on the facts. Read up for yourself Michael: see Nixon/Southern Strategy and Reagan/Moral majority/right wing religious groups etc. Those things happened, and they have had a powerfully destructive and divisive role in the country's social and political history ever since.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Actually we have to default.
> Then China and Saudi Arabia would agree to sell the debt.
> Timothy Geitners book mentioned many scenarios.
> 
> He was smart to get out as he knew nobody would ever be prosecuted on Wall Street.
> Obama made so many promises he knew he couldnt keep.
> Like no lobbyists.
> CSPAN exposing soecial interest groups, yadda yadda.
> 
> Geitner knows thier disasterous policies would kill jobs and wanted no part of it.
> Wrote the book while he headed the treasury department.
> 
> Its called covering your ass.



http://www.nbcnews.com/id/43075566/...cans-responsible-if-us-defaults/#.VzGE19cmKHk

https://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Pages/letter.aspx

"It would be a disaster if we defaulted on our debt. It would be a disaster if we were hit by an asteroid. I think being hit by an asteroid is a more likely scenario," said J.D. Foster, an expert on fiscal policy with the conservative Heritage Foundation. He suggests that Congress look for dramatic spending cuts or offer guidance through legislation on which debts should be paid first.

"I am certain you will agree that it is strongly in our national interest for Congress to act well before the debt limit is reached. However, if Congress were to fail to act, the specific consequences would be as follows:


The Treasury would be forced to default on legal obligations of the United States, causing catastrophic damage to the economy, potentially much more harmful than the effects of the financial crisis of 2008 and 2009."

T. Geithner
How about another side wager: 100 sampled instruments if the U.S. defaults on debt obligations in the next 5 years. We'll check back in 2021.


----------



## Baron Greuner

You can't make this stuff up. This is one of Cameron token females in Vietnam recently. These people make judgements about government legislation. Remember that when you vote.


----------



## NYC Composer

I dunno. No disrespect to the guy, but he does kinda look like a 6 year old boy.


----------



## Baron Greuner

_*What are you talking about Larry!!!!!!*_

Anyone can see he's a 46 year old, married, Vietnamese, short person!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> <<I "disappear" when it's obvious the discussion's not going anywhere. Do you expect us to talk about these things forever? Do you enjoy beating dead horses?>>
> 
> I was trying to be polite. The last discussion we had, about abortion was heated at first, then it moved on to being substantive and we were getting somewhere. As I recall, you made several points. I came back with a long argument, addressing all of those points. You never responded. You disappear when you don't know how to respond. Apparently you do this not infrequently.



To be honest, I am not someone who should be arguing online, because I don't have the heart for lengthy discussion. The reason for this is that nothing ever changes anyone's mind. Ever. I have never seen anyone change their mind on a substantive issue because of an online argument. Ever.

I'm sure that if I leave in the middle of an argument, it seems I'm disappearing because I can't continue the argument. The majority of the time, it's because I don't _want_ to invest the time to continue the debate. And yes, at other times, to be brutally honest about myself, it's because I don't know how to continue the argument.

In that particular discussion, I kept using Embryology to back up my claim that. You made a distinction between "human life" and "personhood". I said there is no distinction. But among that long list of quotes i gave you were quotes that specifically referred to the individuality / personhood of the embryo. Did you address those quotes?

If you did, I missed it. You can point it out to me if you'd like, but know in advance that I'm not going to continue the discussion because I'm tired of it.



Soundhound said:


> <<Explain what you mean by "wraps himself in christianity the way so many right wingers wrap themselves in the American flag".>>
> 
> Well I could cut and paste his entire campaign for the presidency, but that would be a bit much. I'll gather a bucketful over the next day or two and post. (I'm on vacation, theoretically).



No need for examples. I don't know what that phrase "wraps himself in Christianity" means. That's all I wanted to know. But now i don't even want to know that now because I've spent an hour writing and editing this damn post, and I'm tired.



Soundhound said:


> <<Separation of church and state is to prevent Government form interfering with religion.>>
> 
> This is what the right wing media has been telling their base for a generation. It's nothing of the sort. The purpose is to allow the free exercise of religion, and to keep religion out of government.



You do know that right now I could provide quotes from Jefferson himself that seems to support my view, right?

And then, you would provide quotes that seem to support your view.

And that right there is why I get tired of online arguments. It's just quote after quote, assertion after assertion. Everyone has quotes to "prove" his point.

We are all experts in finding quotes. But if you or I were actually experts in these fields, if we had gone to school and mastered these subjects, our views would carry more weight.

But even then, why should we trust each other when there are other "educated" experts that - lo and behold - share our own view?

See what I'm saying? Where do we go with all of this? What is the point of all this online arguing that we all do?

Why have I spent over an hour on this post alone?

We waste hour after hour of our lives arguing online. Life on this earth is too short to spend our time in such fruitless pursuits. Shame on me.


----------



## chimuelo

Well I was trapped in a storm cellar for 13 hours by Liberal storms and 4 tornados.
Had lots of time to kill.
Beautiful day now.
Conservative sun is shining.
Neighbors gathering up their Llamas and other animals.
This place is weird.


----------



## Soundhound

i think I did answer that Michael, I'll have a look. you're right though, this will end up with you saying the scientific method is a belief system or something else I think makes no sense, and it'll become apparent that the discussion would best be had by people who know what the hell they're talking about.


----------



## Soundhound

Ah the heritage foundation, font of all good things, including the ACA. in this corner, a Pulitzer Prize winner:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/09/opinion/the-making-of-an-ignoramus.html


----------



## chimuelo

Damn it my phone took a few shots of the Tornados but it is so dark they look blank.
So nice to be able to see the weather as opposed to hiding in a cellar for 10 hours at night listening to debris blowing by.
No wine but made new friends hung out with old ones.
We had lots of Tamales and Salsa.

For 2 days I sweat knowing my rig could get buried.
Waiting for the sirens to stop.
Wished I could have sampled those for the intro on Black Sabbaths War Pigs.


----------



## NYC Composer

Scary stuff, Jimmy. Stay safe, my friend.


----------



## Soundhound

!! those tornados were close enough for you to see?! you ok?


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah haven't seen Tornados since I was a kid.
These were tall and thin, but were several from what folks are saying.
On radar you usually see Red.
It was all RED, then small sized circles of purple.
Those were the debris circles.

I paid for 4 nights for rehearsals, be lucky to get 2 before we head out for 6 gigs.
Love the pressure of nature and pre production.
Cool combination..

My rig was packed in my car inside of this huge Barn full of machinery and tractors.
I felt safe but its nothing more than a foundation and walls of metal with shoring.
These guys are too cool, they put large stalk snappers on each side of me and had a huge canvas cover we weighed down over the top.
I got one road north with 2 x 4 wheeler's with wenches as escorts.
These guys are too nice, and the best Tamales I ever had.

The good news is when I get back to NashVegas my new Ambika will be ready and waiting.

Cheerz


----------



## Baron Greuner

Trouble follows you Jimmy!

Jimmy what's happened to all your keys? Are they safe?


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah.
I couldn't even see them until 1000 Hours.
Then no sooner we had breakfast (Fresh milk in a tin cup is the shizzle)
and the sirens went off, sun went down, got dark and 16 of us headed for the Cellar again.
Were waiting for the 4 wheeler from next door to arrive then taking some road north.
They said they go out after every Tornado and just clear the roads as thats what folks do here.
Shit I thought cause I was all famous and shit I was getting special treatment....
Here's the first email received when I came up from the Ground though.
Light at the end of the Tunnel....

Hankyu..


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> i think I did answer that Michael, I'll have a look. you're right though, this will end up with you saying the scientific method is a belief system or something else I think makes no sense, and it'll become apparent that the discussion would best be had by people who know what the hell they're talking about.


Yeah, that's why I leave he discussion to the embryologists. You know, the guys who actually study embryos.


----------



## Soundhound

what you meant to say is you cherry pick information that supports the conclusion you reached ahead of time. must have been a typo.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> what you meant to say is you cherry pick information that supports the conclusion you reached ahead of time. must have been a typo.


And you totally dismiss all biological science on the subject and instead rely on some concocted distinction between "human life" and "personhood".


----------



## Soundhound

Michael, in your research regarding history, fiction and primitive superstitions, you may want to stop off and look up 'passive aggressive'. I think you'll find your picture next to the definition. Do you do this in real life, start arguments and then run away, continuing to yell out the same thing you started the argument with? If so, how often have you gotten the crap beaten out of you just for being annoying? This is valuable data that will help further the science of human (and related) behavior, so we can understand our world better.


----------



## NYC Composer

You and I generally agree on the issue at hand 'hound, but I'm not sure we need to be yelling at each other. Just my devalued $.02.


----------



## chimuelo

Liberal and Conservative media have done a very thorough job.

Speaking of a good job.
First responders are rare in these parts.
Roads were cleared of debris within an hour.
I have never seen such coordinated citizenry in my life.
I drove by Grain Silos crushed like Soda Cans. Cars stuck in trees 20 feet off of the ground.
Every tree on the roads were cleared by people so distant first responders could drive where needed.
These folks got their shit together.

Word is there's more coming tomorrow.

Hard to imagine these folks are so prepared that they are concerned about missing animals on their local news.
Not a single human injury reported.
Un Fucking believable as I drove for over an hour through what looked like a war zone.

Peace Out...


----------



## Soundhound

Was that yelling? I thought it was a much called for calling out. Appy polly logies (per Little Alex) to anyone who felt it was over the line...


----------



## Soundhound

Glad to hear it Jimmy, love hearing stories like that.



chimuelo said:


> First responders are rare in these parts.
> Roads were cleared of debris within an hour.
> I have never seen such coordinated citizenry in my life.
> I drove by Grain Silos crushed like Soda Cans. Cars stuck in trees 20 feet off of the ground.
> Every tree on the roads were cleared by people so distant first responders could drive where needed.
> These folks got their shit together.
> 
> Word is there's more coming tomorrow.
> 
> Hard to imagine these folks are so prepared that they are concerned about missing animals on their local news.
> Not a single human injury reported.
> Un Fucking believable as I drove for over an hour through what looked like a war zone.
> 
> Peace Out...


----------



## NYC Composer

Bless you Jimmy, stay safe.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> Michael, in your research regarding history, fiction and primitive superstitions, you may want to stop off and look up 'passive aggressive'. I think you'll find your picture next to the definition. Do you do this in real life, (1) start arguments and then run away, continuing to yell out the(3) same thing (4) you started the argument with? If so, (5) how often have you gotten the crap beaten out of you just for being annoying? This is valuable data that will help further the science of human (and related) behavior, so we can understand our world better.


(1) Who started the argument? You brought up abortion this time. This discussion was about Trump.
(2) Who's run away?
(3) Biological science is the crux of my argument, so why do you expect me to change it? You keep saying the same 2 things over and over, as well: (A) "the science of this isn't important" and (B) "Human life does not = personhood". The difference being that my "same thing" has quantifiable credible evidential support, while yours does not.
(4) Again, who started this argument? You did.
(5) In "real life", I don't even have prolonged arguments with people. I exist in peace with every one i know, because I don't live alongside provokers. But what about you? How often do you get the crap beat out of you for your practice of "My word is ultimate truth, and don't ask me to prove it. It's true just because I say it's true. And if you disagree with me, I'll just verbally abuse you"?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> You and I generally agree on the issue at hand 'hound, but I'm not sure we need to be yelling at each other. Just my devalued $.02.


Thank you.


----------



## NYC Composer

"Dummy" doesn't help my efforts at civility, Michael. Sheesh. Why can't we all just... well, you know


----------



## Soundhound

1/2) I brought up the fact that you have a history of starting arguments and disappearing. It's your m.o. Michael. You're kind of famous for it. 

3) Your insisting that 'biological science' is the crux of your argument is disingenuous. You are starting from a belief that life is sacred. Therefor you look for support for that argument. The concept of when life begins is not settled, and perhaps never can be. Your insistence that science is on your side is entirely disingenuous. Which is, in my book, lying, it's not looking at the whole of the discussion, it's cherry picking that which supports your argument. It's the way a child, or someone like Donald Trump, argues. Perhaps you should rethink your view of his candidacy after all!

4) Again, arguing like a child, rather than discussing the issue at hand. He started it Mom! I was't even in the room. Take responsibility for your actions Michael, it's the path to adulthood and a full, rich life. 

5) You live in peace Michael because you live in a world of your own making. You are not open to others opinions, to the point that you feel you know better than a woman what is right for her to do with her life. You are insisting that your religious beliefs should be the rules by which her life is governed. But you don't have the courage of your convictions, and so you try to use cherry picked information to support your position. It's not just cowardly, it's feeds a fundamentally fascist approach. 

Religion can not, and must not, have any part in the laws that govern us. It can, and does, in theocratic states, and the result is horrific for those unlucky enough to live in such barbaric places. This country was born of the thinking that sprang from the Enlightenment, and because of that it has always been, and hopefully always will be, a source of great promise and hope for a better life. Your way of thinking is primitive, dangerous and must be fought at all turns. You would have us return to a time when religious beliefs held sway over civil life. You just don't have the balls to admit it. 







Michael K. Bain said:


> (1) Who started the argument? You brought up abortion this time. This discussion was about Trump.
> (2) Who's run away?
> (3) Biological science is the crux of my argument, so why do you expect me to change it? You keep saying the same 2 things over and over, as well: (A) "the science of this isn't important" and (B) "Human life does not = personhood". The difference being that my "same thing" has quantifiable credible evidential support, while yours does not.
> (4) Again, who started this argument? You did.
> (5) In "real life", I don't even have prolonged arguments with people. I exist in peace with every one i know, because I don't live alongside provokers. But what about you? How often do you get the crap beat out of you for your practice of "My word is ultimate truth, and don't ask me to prove it. It's true just because I say it's true. And if you disagree with me, I'll just verbally abuse you"?


----------



## Soundhound

It occurs to me, Michael, that you may not appreciate the fact that science is a method, not a belief system. The method is one of creating hypotheses, and then testing them repeatedly, for as long as they can hold their own. It's not static, as your clinging to the fragments which support your religious beliefs suggests you must think it is. 

The abortion debate is a deep and complex discussion. Have you read and thought about it much? Here's a terrific place to start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_debate


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> 3) Your insisting that 'biological science' is the crux of your argument is disingenuous. You are starting from a belief that life is sacred. Therefor you look for support for that argument.



How are you any different? How is anyone any different? We all start with a belief and then look for supporting evidence. Are you telling me that when you first heard about the abortion issue, you were neutral and researched both sides thoroughly and then came to the conclusion that women should have the right to abortion?



Soundhound said:


> The concept of when life begins is not settled, and perhaps never can be. Your insistence that science is on your side is entirely disingenuous. Which is, in my book, lying, it's not looking at the whole of the discussion, it's cherry picking that which supports your argument.



It is settled by the people who actually study it. Human life begins at conception. You even admitted that in the last discussion, then went on to talk about "personhood".



Soundhound said:


> 4) Again, arguing like a child, rather than discussing the issue at hand. He started it Mom! I was't even in the room. Take responsibility for your actions Michael, it's the path to adulthood and a full, rich life.



You were the first one with the "you started it", to which I simply replied with fact - no, you started it. You're allowed to argue like a child but I am not?



Soundhound said:


> Take responsibility for your actions Michael, it's the path to adulthood and a full, rich life.



I have taken responsibility for my actions many times. Many times I have seen that I have insulted someone or spoke wrongly to someone and apologized for it. I have even apologized to you a couple of times.



Soundhound said:


> 5) You live in peace Michael because you live in a world of your own making. You are not open to others opinions,









Why do you blast me for the very things you do? When did you ever admit that maybe not all Republicans are evil and wrong on every single issue? 

You storm in, shouting at people, hurling insults, presenting your opinions as fact and dad gum it, anyone who dosen't agree with you is a total ass-backward imbecile. "It's your m.o. Soundhound. You're kind of famous for it."



Soundhound said:


> to the point that you feel you know better than a woman what is right for her to do with her life. You are insisting that your religious beliefs should be the rules by which her life is governed.



No, Im not insisting that my religious beliefs should govern her life. I know that a fetus is a human life, and I don't want her to murder it.



Soundhound said:


> But you don't have the courage of your convictions, You just don't have the balls to admit it.



My religious beliefs are the backbone of many of my opinions. I think I even admitted that in our last discussion.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

I'm curious about something, Soundhound. According to your rules, when are we allowed to let this discussion lie? You will never convince me to be prochoice and I will never convince you to be prolife. At some point, someone will get to be the last person to address it, unless it goes on forever. It's going to stop in an open-ended state somehow.


----------



## Soundhound

I let it lie many many posts ago. As I found myself getting into another discussion with you, I thought, oh no, not this guy again. That's why I asked if you were going to disappear again. I didn't want to get into a discussion with you because you don't know how to listen to other people. You know how to repeat back what you've been told by the people at your church, or your local chamber of commerce, or whatever organization it is that tells you how to think. The problem is the world is endlessly complex (and very beautiful for that btw) letting someone else tell you how to think cuts you off from all that.

And so, unable to think for yourself, you don't know how to have a discussion, you know how to say the same thing over and over. That's not thinking, it's evangelizing, which is a great evil. Get thee behind me, Satan! (Get it? see, that's a joke. But that's the thing about right wing radicals, they don't have a sense of humor... There has never been a great right wing comic, great comedy requires real thought and empathy, the evangelical mind knows nothing of that)

Ok, let's drop this and return the thread to it's original purpose. We are being rude and selfish to others. I will be the first to turn my sword back into a plowshare. I hereby divorce thee, Michael. You'll get the last word, because children and hurt animals must. I won't respond.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Jimmy,
While arguing with Soundhound, I have come under the conviction that I owe you an apology. I blast Soundhound for insulting people, but heck I've been insulting Trump supporters in this thread by calling them a cult. I realize that you are nothing like that. I understand where you come from, and why you support Trump. It's not right for me to hurl insults like that. I am sincerely sorry for my sin against you.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> I let it lie many many posts ago. As I found myself getting into another discussion with you, I thought, oh no, not this guy again. That's why I asked if you were going to disappear again. I didn't want to get into a discussion with you because you don't know how to listen to other people. You know how to repeat back what you've been told by the people at your church, or your local chamber of commerce, or whatever organization it is that tells you how to think. The problem is the world is endlessly complex (and very beautiful for that btw) letting someone else tell you how to think cuts you off from all that.
> 
> And so, unable to think for yourself, you don't know how to have a discussion, you know how to say the same thing over and over. That's not thinking, it's evangelizing, which is a great evil. Get thee behind me, Satan! (Get it? see, that's a joke. But that's the thing about right wing radicals, they don't have a sense of humor... There has never been a great right wing comic, great comedy requires real thought and empathy, the evangelical mind knows nothing of that)
> 
> Ok, let's drop this and return the thread to it's original purpose. We are being rude and selfish to others. I will be the first to turn my sword back into a plowshare. I hereby divorce thee, Michael. You'll get the last word, because children and hurt animals must. I won't respond.



Actually, I've been thinking that I've been in the wrong to argue with you like this. It is nothing but pride and the foolish need to have my opinions accepted. I apologize for that, and since you are gracious enough to let it end, I will stop as well. Thank you.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> "Dummy" doesn't help my efforts at civility, Michael. Sheesh. Why can't we all just... well, you know


I know, and I had second thoughts about that and edited out.


----------



## chimuelo

Dont worry Mike.
I am anti Liberal and Conservative as in regards to thier fake representation.
As far as a supporter of Liberal and Conservative beliefs I share many of both.
Too bad those we are forced to vote on dont practice what they preach.
If they did Bernie and Trump wouldnt be in this campaign.

So I will become a brown skinned white racist anti woman anti muslim anti hispanic hetero sexual angry cult supporter to keep plantation owners from getting more millions for serving us.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Dont worry Mike.



Thank you for the forgiveness.



chimuelo said:


> I am anti Liberal and Conservative as in regards to thier fake representation.
> As far as a supporter of Liberal and Conservative beliefs I share many of both.
> Too bad those we are forced to vote on dont practice what they preach.
> If they did Bernie and Trump wouldnt be in this campaign.
> 
> So I will become a brown skinned white racist anti woman anti muslim anti hispanic hetero sexual angry cult supporter to keep plantation owners from getting more millions for serving us.



I can understand that. I just can't cast a vote for him. I can't find a 3rd party candidate I like, either, so I'll abstain from voting for POTUS. I will vote down-ticket, however.


----------



## NYC Composer

And they beat their swords into
Plowshares! Outstanding!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> And they beat their swords into
> Plowshares! Outstanding!


Your work paid off!


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, you ok?

And if you are  how can you vote for a guy who knows nothing about government, macro-finance, history, foreign policy, or the Constitution? One who shows every sign of having poor impulse control? I know this is the "throw the bums out" year but this is a scary prospect to me, moral outlooks and ideology aside. 

Obama's biggest drawback was lack of experience, but he's a Constituional scholar, so at least there was some rigor to his education


----------



## impressions

NYC Composer said:


> how can you vote for a guy who knows nothing about government, macro-finance, history, foreign policy, or the Constitution? One who shows every sign of having poor impulse control? I know this is the "throw the bums out" year but this is a scary prospect to me, moral outlooks and ideology aside.
> 
> Obama's biggest drawback was lack of experience, but he's a Constituional scholar, so at least there was some rigor to his education



not into Trump either, but-
if obama's reign was so good for most people, they wouldn't have voted for such a radical change. 
he could be just manipulating everyone and press all the right buttons just the get himself the votes, but i'm not too sure its -only- that. and if that's true, then liberalism hasn't got America where it should. I think that is true not just for America also.


----------



## Baron Greuner

That's nothing. Cameron has made an asshole of himself 4 times in the last 24 hours.

This is the buffoon that everyone will listen to when it comes to the EU referendum vote in June.

But wait. He's now decided he won't have a debate about it. Hahahahah. 

You can't make this stuff up.


----------



## chimuelo

I want real capitalism and infrastructure, not free food and shitty health care.

Liberals can go back to make believe land at some University, and teach others how to fail.

Workers will help rebuild America, not lawyers and academics.
Bunch of dip shits can't even spend trillions properly...


----------



## Soundhound

the thing is, there hasn't been a liberal government here in decades. Obama might have turned out to be a liberal, but he ran into 6 years of a congres hell bent on destroying his presidency whether it hurt the country or not. which it did.



impressions said:


> not into Trump either, but-
> if obama's reign was so good for most people, they wouldn't have voted for such ean opposition radical change.
> he could be just manipulating everyone and press all the right buttons just the get himself the votes, but i'm not too sure its -only- that. and if that's true, then liberalism hasn't got America where it should. I think that is true not just for America also.


----------



## chimuelo

6 years of idiots I agree.

But 2 years of a super majority, we voted for to change tax laws, get rid of special interests, represent the people, a single payer health care system for all.
They phucked us, so we phucked them.

Lies and corruption removed Liberals.
Backroom deals removed them again in 2014 after that great invasion in Libya.
Obama would have been 1 term if they would have told us why in the ph-ck we were really there.

Yuze Conservatives and Liberals get 2 years from the majority Independents that send you there.
Do your job, you stay.
We got all kinds of time to remove the next crew.

Wont be hard either as Eric Cantor found out.
With the Donald running the show, removing dirt bags will become even easier.

We should make a game show out of that.
Have them summoned to the Oval Office where Melanie walks around in sexy clothes, opens the door.
You are seated before the Donald.

The TV responds to facebook and twitter polls of a question.
If the Lawyer in question gets 55% or better, he stays.
He falls below 45% and the Donalds fires him.
All on TV and every Sunday Night after the NFL Games.

America Will Be Great Again because Washington DC will be empty.


----------



## Soundhound

nah. 2 years of non racists got us ACA, which yes is a giveaway to the insurance companies, who are useless parasites, but it also gave 20 million people health insurance. it's a step in the right direction. single payer is what we need, like the rest of the civilized world. it'll come.


----------



## chimuelo

No problem.
We plan on sending Indain Asian Hispanic White and Black racists to finish off the remaining Liberals.

My guess is Trump will be so spectacular once he gets there we can remove Conservatives too, and start sending people with skills there instead of these losers.

Once the for sale sign at the white house is taken down we will already be great again.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

I think single payer insurance plan (without a mandate) would be much better than the ACA. Until December of last year, I had a fixed indemnity plan that I paid $160 a month for. Obama sad that fixed indemnity plans don't count as insurance under the mandate. But that plan was discontinued anyway, so I am now out of insurance altogether because i can't afford even the minimum insurance. Shortly before Obamacare went into effect, I priced major medical at $220 a month. That had a $1000 or $1500 deductible. Now the minimum I would pay is $360 with a $5000 or $6000 deductible.


----------



## Soundhound

Yes I'm looking forward to Trump standing up to the insurance lobby, the pharmaceutical lobby, the nra, all the merchants of greed, fear and death. just because he cares as much about working people as I care about the Los Angeles Lakers (read: 0), knows nothing about negotiating in business and far less about public policy, and, as is true of all bullies, has no backbone, is no reason to think he won't make the sun shine again!



chimuelo said:


> No problem.
> We plan on sending Indain Asian Hispanic White and Black racists to finish off the remaining Liberals.
> 
> My guess is Trump will be so spectacular once he gets there we can remove Conservatives too, and start sending people with skills there instead of these losers.
> 
> Once the for sale sign at the white house is taken down we will already be great again.


----------



## chimuelo

All he needs to do is put all Americans on Medicare.

Right now the doctor and the patient have 2 middlemen distorting costs.
Insyrance companies and Liberals being removed from the process benefits Americans.

Pharmecuetical CEOs and Trump will take away the ridiculous costs imposed by the FDA to get medecine to the markets.
Right now its 1 billion for a new drug to be 
approved.

Get that shake down process streamlined.

Next, loser pays to get make courts accessible and rid ourselves of Liberal bottom feeders.
They can always run for Congress or put up thier own money so real victims are represented versus shake down artists settling out passing costs on to consumers.

Just a few off the top of my head.....


----------



## Soundhound

I'm getting out my liberal Geiger counter to count the number of liberal insurance company CEOs. tap tap tap, this thing must be be broken, no reading at all. hmmmm, however the conservative Geiger counter is redlined, there's smoke coming out of the damn thing now, it's toast!

Clinton just came out for Medicare expansion (thank you Bernie! if only you could be president) The conservative Geiger counter is searching for right wingers in favor of Medicare for all, now it's broken again? getting a big fat zero!

from now on I'm buying Samsung Geiger counters.


----------



## chimuelo

There don't care about some lawyers affiliation, just how much they charge.
Payments are spread out over an assumed 4 year stretch, then re negotiated.
Trump has purchased Liberals for decades.
We'll hear so much more on that in a few months.


----------



## Soundhound

I am staying tuned.


----------



## NYC Composer

Single payer makes so much more sense to me.

On a more important note Jimmy, glad you survived the dramatic weather.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yeah welcome back Jimmy from the brink of destruction.

Not the first time and won't be the last knowing Jimmy.

How about the Governor of the Bank of England yesterday? What a c**t that guy is.


----------



## chimuelo

Mighty Ohio


----------



## NYC Composer

Fits in with your theory that the fix is in, Baron.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry yes I know this is about the US election which is arguably much more interesting and important than the EU. But did you get that GoBE announcement on US TV yesterday?
The fucking guy should be sacked or made to resign. That's this guy Cameron again all over it. They appointed this ex Goldmans Sachs clown because they knew they could control him. This is the tosser that stated 3 years ago that when unemployment went down to 7% in the UK, interest rates would rise. Here we are 3 years on and the UR is now around 5% and nothing happened. Everytime this guy opens his mouth, the markets go down. The economic policy is supposed to be independent of the government. It's not because first you have this berk and then the Nine Nazgul fuckers (MPC) that are the so called independently nominated. Yeah right!

You can't have these people running around the place.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Jimmy, America is so flat. I can't believe how flat it is. No wonder you guys build skyscrapers. It's the only high ground you've got.


----------



## chimuelo

England needs a crazy out of control gangster Trump type to force current leaders into taking action.
Trump hit all the buttons and since then we've seen many actions from targeted deportations to foreign policy dramatically change.
Even Hollywood might start making good movies again.


----------



## NYC Composer

Nope Baron, but I looked it up on the Google and I get the idea. The guy is shilling for the gov against the possibility of a Brexit.

I know you would prefer a fair referendum. Are you personally pro-Brexit?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Well Larry the thing is, I have look after Gunther. If I vote for a Brexit, who's going to look after Gunther? 

Actually on a serious note, I see in my wife's paper (not sure whether there's any truth in it) that most of Germany now wish to remove Angela. I may move there and create music in retirement with my German friends, if they do that.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ummm... Baron? I call bullshit.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> England needs a crazy out of control gangster Trump type to force current leaders into taking action.
> Trump hit all the buttons and since then we've seen many actions from targeted deportations to foreign policy dramatically change.
> Even Hollywood might start making good movies again.


Everyone needs a crazy out of control gangster to lead their country. Ghaddafi, Sadam Hussein, Pinochet, Kim Jong Un, Trujillo. Is Baby Doc still alive? 

Too bad the Krays are gone-what fun they'd be heading up jolly ol'.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Well Jimmy if Trump becomes the next Prez (can't see it myself), he basically becomes the leader of the UK. Because the UK is run by the US. That's the way we like it. Oh hang on though. Shit I forgot. All these people signed a petition about not letting him into the country. Can you see a pattern there Jimmy? A pattern of how a country like the UK can, in a very short space of time relatively speaking, suffer from a kind of collective madness? Of course it goes without saying that the Great Appeaser on hearing this, immediately sided with these people publicly, only to be told 24 hours later that most of them were crazier than shithouse rats. Had to backtrack even more when he realised that the entire labour party had signed the petition. Don't they realise this guy owns golf courses over here?


----------



## Baron Greuner

It's funny how the Krays always come up. But actually they were very friendly souls compared to ........CUE MUSIC!!!!!!!!



*THE RICHARDSONS!!!!!!!*


*Bah Bah BaBa Baaaaaaaaaaa!*


----------



## NYC Composer

How much more perfect can leaders be than the Krays???


----------



## Baron Greuner

I have to go and get my eyes seen to now. But I will return.....hopefully. (frightened myself mentioning the Richardsons). Found myself reaching for Symphobia 1's Horror EFX patches almost entirely without thinking.


----------



## NYC Composer

Geez. The look in Eddie Richardson's eyes reminds me of Bricktop from "Snatch" (a favorite movie for me)

Baron, what would I do without your schooling in Brit esoterica??


----------



## chimuelo

Golf courses are where deals are made.
All carts are bugged giving the owner quite an advantage.
Politicians and gangsters use to tip my wife more money in a single day than I made in a week.
She drove around in a golf cart serving drinks telling everyone to f off. They loved the abuse.

Got to be a sneaky bastard when purchasing politicians and lawyers.
My lawyer in Vegas owned the snack bar in the courthouse where cases were discussed and deals were made.
I got my money's worth that's for sure.

These golf matches in D.C. is where Trump bought many Liberals.
We'll hear all about it real soon.

Maybe Trump can expose Britians dirtbags too.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Baron Greuner said:


> Jimmy, America is so flat. I can't believe how flat it is. No wonder you guys build skyscrapers. It's the only high ground you've got.



Come out west. I look at a 10,000+ ft mountain daily, weather permitting.

BTW, Texas isn't "west". It's south-central. They have no 10,000+ ft mountains and if Cuba weren't in the way, Columbus would have sailed there.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Oh dear dear dear! Now we have Christine and the IMF to put up with. She's saying that Britan outside the EU will be considerably worse off and the financial implications could be disastrous.

What she actually means is the EU will be considerably worse off if Britain votes to leave.


----------



## NYC Composer

Today, Trump was quoted as saying-"children are taking up far too many of the country's resources. We need to stop screwing and having babies until we figure out what the hell is going on."

His poll numbers plummeted.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Awesome. That said, it's fair to say that there are people out there that won't be happy until the entire planet is covered in.....err people.

Loving the result of the Eurovision Song Contest. Apparently Russia were firm favourites to win, but the euro judges made Ukraine the winners with a song about Stalins atrocities in the Ukraine. Hahahahah you can't make this stuff up. Gosh the eu referendum vote just took a turn..

Have heard either of the songs I hear you ask? Are you out of your mind!


----------



## NYC Composer

Umm. He didn't really say that. He might tomorrow though.

Haven't heard the tunes, but I'm sure they will be inescapable before long. Good publicity.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Doesn't matter that he did or or didn't say it.

It's a good start to the week and lets keep these rumours coming!


----------



## NYC Composer

It occurs to me in these political discussions that it is the rare person whose views are 100% right or 100% wrong. Of course, I could be wrong, or I could be right. If you disagree with me about this, you are most definitely wrong. On the other hand, maybe you're right.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry, what I'm thoroughly enjoying at the moment, is the two camps of the EU vote in June.

On one hand you have the remain sales team that are strictly bottom up in their approach and don't use any form of intellect in their reasoning. This is good for them, because their marketing teams have correctly worked out as a basic fundamental, that in order to win any kind of vote, any form of intellectual reasoning will just be wasted on 95% of any given population. In other words, they will cloud over almost instantaneously and at the very worst, not vote at all.
Sky Television has also worked this out too in spades. Their attitude is that if the vote is for a leave, there could be financial implications in the short term. This would mean disaster for Sky because the first household things to go would be crap like Sky TV, so their MO is very much in the remain camp. They know their client base. They are a bottom up TV station and appeal to people that like watching the same films all the time and football. They even hire idiots to man their news channel which is arguably the worst news channel in the world. The main criteria on Sky News for a presenter is their skill in interrupting when leave campers suddenly look like they're appealing to the morons.
The BBC are more balanced than Sky, but still very much stay in the remain camp because they're a left wing organisation that needs to appeal to their labour core of watchers.

Then you have the intellectual brigade like Boris, Gove, and Smith et al. What they need is a salesman like Dave. The only guy they can put forward to do that would be Farage, but they can't do that because he's way outside their remit. So they stand there, making wondrous historical and intellectual reasons why the UK should leave. That's great but they are top down, and will wind up losing heavily because they need someone out there to reach the morons. The morons can't understand a word they're saying because its way over their heads.

Cameron point blank refused to go head to head with Boris because he knows he can't win a debate with him based on the fact he doesn't possess an intellect or have any kind of historical knowledge. But like a lot of dumbos, he's shrewd and so sensibly took advice not to do that under any circumstances.

The remain camp cannot in anyway lose this vote.

Please start a rumour one way or the other about this Larry; any quote you can come up with and I'll put your name forward to the appropriate camp.


----------



## chimuelo

Eurovision is so disgustingly politically correct it could gag a maggot.

Naturally Hollywood will follow with similar political correctness awards to heighten awareness for some cause.
Perhaps an anti 2nd Amendment Love ballad.
Naturally all rich whites voting like the Quackademy Awards so they can send the proper messaging of guilt and warmth, since victimhood requires proper messaging.

But us mixed race racists aren't fooled as we see a different message from guilty white Europeans.
The annexation of Crimea by white supremicists has just been rewarded in this disgusting veil of victimhood.


----------



## NYC Composer

Fascinating stuff, Baron. I am truly enjoying the Brexit battle because I know a basic truth-no matter what they opine, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THE UK UPS AND BREXITS. No one knows!! They can blather on about this financial forecast or that historical perspective, but it's all supposition and crystal ball gazing.
THEY CAN ONLY GUESS.

(This is why I believe the Brexit won't happen-people are generally alarmed by the idea of change- but I COULD BE WRONG, 'cause I'm JUST GUESSING!!)

(Isn't this fun?)


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry can I just say that my mother doesn't understand me. 

This is it Larry. They're just making this stuff up as they go along. I'm amazed that either one, or both camps didn't hire me.

The great thing about it all, is that it shows these people to be what they really are and the total disregard for all walks of society. It must be great to wake up one morning and realise 40 years later that these people just treated the entire race as morons to suit their particular bank balances.

Exactly. People with low IQs are easy targets and the Appeaser knows that they cannot cope with change. If you went into 95% of the populations houses and changed their fucking toilet paper they would have a collective seizure.

This is sales territory. This is where I feel most at home. This is fun.


----------



## NYC Composer

I gotta go sleep, but let me just say- I live for this shit. The tragic-comic opera of the masses and the bureaucrats and the pitchforks and the sphincter-tightening fear. The circus came to town and stayed for eternity. Gotta laugh or you'll cry in your pint, eh? This is a drunkard's dream if I ever did see one.

Buenos nachos.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump just announced support for Brexit and vows to deploy Aegis Anti Missile platforms along the Dover cliffs to deter European aggression.
Millions of whites take to rafts crossing the English Channel trying to escape Muslim aggression in Belgium France and Germany.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I'm on it for you Jimmy. That should make The Daily Mail tomorrow. Looks like a good cheque in the post for you there. It may even syndicate!


----------



## chimuelo

News flash...
Bill has a hot babe that cost taxpayers millions. ( I actually support this since she isn't a Cow)
Clintons son n law forced to close down his hedge fund from losing 25,000,000 dollars of investors money.

Hillary is already keeping her promise of "calling and urging for hedge fund managers salary deductions"...

Trumps promise of job creation has also begun as more and more community organizers are replacing former professional protestors that have been elevated to 400k a year jobs as Professors in Federal/Union Colleges from their great work in Ferguson.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yeah Jimmy I like this. I like this a lot. Could make for some great copy. The only problem I have with it, is that it may be too truthful and accurate.
Can't you make something up?


----------



## chimuelo

Black White and Hispanic racist police cleared the Democratic Convention in Las Vegas.
Looks like Bernie supporters and Clintonites beat each other up.
Cops were called in and emptired the room.
Since Nevada cops are rarely needed they don't tolerate lawlessness, especially in a Casino.
I guess they're tired of wealthy whites picking their candidates for them.


----------



## NYC Composer

When asked about his feelings concerning a possible Brexit in an interview on Sunday, Donald J. Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, asked the interviewer the following question:

"Brexit? Is it a new breakfast thing, like an Egg McMuffin?"


----------



## chimuelo

Saw Cameron debating with Corbyn on PBS/ CSPAN.
Thats where President Obama said evil special interests would be exposed.
Line by line removal of earmarks, veto any bill with Pelosi Reid Pork Barrel spending.
At least the Brits make parliament fun to watch.
After 8 years of watching lawyers struggling to read scripts handed to them it was refreshing.
Baron has successfully got me interested in British politics.

N.Koreans gathered again in the land of equality and unanimously relected thier fat leader.
He promised to kill everybody as usual.
Interesting how he wants to discuss his Nuclear program since China condemned them.
Guess they figured it was time to hedge thier bets.

Seems Soros is now raising money for Trump.
This guy is damn smart. He gets insider info to invest in Brazilian and Mexican Oil from moratoriums and pipeline delays from rich white Liberals, then waits for Coal to drop from endless speeches about global warming and the war on coal. Drops billions when coal bottoms out.
Now backs Trump after listening to his West Virginia win by mostly Democratic voters.
Owning Liberals has serious benefits.
Hes banking on a Trump win and Coal to rise once the remaining wealthy whites retire. (with hundreds of millions)
Confusing times..


----------



## Baron Greuner

British politics is like watching a train crash that's taken centuries to unfold.

Got to love the NK leader. What I like about him, is he treats everything like it's a video game. And that coat!!! And those chubby chops!!! And that haircut!!!


----------



## chimuelo

Regime change advocates should learn a lesson with N.Korea.
Send them some food.
Then follow up with Dennis Rodman.
Theyll spend months trying to find a theory inside of his ramblings.
Not realizing he was a perfect example of the excesses of capitalism.


----------



## NYC Composer

News flash-Shelley Adelson contributes $100,000,000 to Trump. Wonder what he wants.


----------



## chimuelo

Wow..
Harry Reid only gets 7 figures from Edelson.
Liberals always underestimate costs and values of everything though.
Steve Wynn hates Trump. Thier Tower war stories are worthy of novels.
Even he and his Chinese Billionaire friends are all in for removing Liberals.
Awesome....


----------



## Baron Greuner

I guess it's become a bit of a drag over in the USA because you've now got this long, drawn out wait for the Clinton v Trump grande finale and who will finally become The Grand Vizier.

Who is Shelley Adelson?

It only costs £2.5 mill to become a Lord in Cameron's regime. That's the going rate afaik atm.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, Shelley isn't a liberal, so I'm sure he's paying a fair price for Trump.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron- Adelson=Vegas gambling billionaire. Part of the vast right wing Koch Bros Illuminati.


----------



## Baron Greuner

And that's really happened? He has departed with 100 large to Trump? No?


----------



## NYC Composer

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presi...lson-poised-give-donald-trump-donation-boost/


----------



## Baron Greuner

Wow! That's almost unbelievable. You Yanks are completely nuts when it comes to vast sums. Think of the good you could do with 100 large.

Fast cars, fast women, expensive yachts, large buildings. And you could just waste the rest on just having a good time.


----------



## NYC Composer

I believe Hillary will be spending something like 2 billion. It is all sheer madness. When I ascend to my rightful post as Emperor, all of this will be unnecessary- however, for elections for lower offices, I shall insist on public campaign financing.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Absolutely Larry. I would ban The House of Lords tomorrow and all quangos.

The House of Lords is an abomination in the sight of the..errrrrrr Lord.


----------



## NYC Composer

One thing I'm very curious about re Trump. He made quite a point during the primaries about the idea that taking campaign contributions means the contributors own you. I wonder how he plans to walk that back...but on the other hand, he seems to be walking back much of what he said during the primary anyway. Fun times!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yeah but Larry that's what they all do isn't it. I can't imagine how you spend that kind of money on anything. TV in the USA presumably. Every 4 years is an incoming revenue boon to US tv it seems to me.
Besides, Trump is probably not worth as much as he puts out or people think he is. Hillary doesn't own hotels, luxury apartment complexes and country clubs. Thank God for Goldman Sachs though. Hillary certainly owns them. And what do they want? Can't imagine. Protection probably.
They obviously know how to back a winner. You sort of almost hope that the whole thing blows up in their faces.

Work now Larry. Worksville Arizona before trouble comes my way. 6 tracks to go!


----------



## NYC Composer

OT- I don't do much contractual library stuff (albums and all) but I've done some here and there- is it still 2 min with :60, :30 and :15 cutouts?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yes basically. Occasionally it goes well over the 2 minute barrier. There's a couple of guys here that are on the same main one as I, and when I hear what they do I'm amazed I'm allowed anywhere near the place. I think they keep me on as a sort of scientific experiment. Anyway, I digress.

When I started, they would do all the cuts, but because of the way they've grown and gone forward, you're supposed to do all that tedious stuff yourself because of time constraints.

So 2 minutes is what I aim for. Sometimes less than that, rarely much more. Always the cuts or bumpers as you say. Sometimes just the underscore (without top lines for example). I don't do vocals. The trouble with writing long drawn out tracks to me is, that in TV world you very very rarely get a track that's played all the way through. I have but it's rare. Probably outside my pay grade. Good when it happens though.


----------



## NYC Composer

Thanks.

Most of the cuts I place, lucky to get a minute played. 23 seconds more likely. Sometimes 5!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yeah absolutely. I had 3 tracks on BBC 1 about 4 or 5 days ago for example and 45 seconds, 25 seconds and 43 seconds. One on German TV for about 29 seconds. It's the way of it generally I find. Others will be different.

OK Larry, I now have to go on pain of death. Or cake!  I have a friggin washing machine arriving sometime today which is messing the whole day up.


----------



## chimuelo

100 large is what wealthy Liberals give their kids for an allowance.
This is 100 huge.

To keep the Sheep confused billionaires are switching affiliations.
I've always said these 2 parties are the same. This was proven during the super majority where Amendments and laws could have been changed for 2 years, but we saw investors tell their lawyers (liberals in congress) to do as they're told and not do as the voters asked.
Last 6 years this has again been proven by Conservative lawyers.
This is why we see Koch Bros. Illuminati supporting Clinton since she is much cheaper than most.
Speeches for 250,000 and up to 1,000,000 to speak while Hillary was fund raising at the State Department is not too high for Liberal legislators.

But 100,000,000 mil is 100 huge Baron.


----------



## JonFairhurst

It's pronounced, "JUGE!"


----------



## NYC Composer

Evidence of Koch Kartel kontributing to Hil, Jimmy?


----------



## chimuelo

Zen Master says we'll see.
They already have sent emissaries after their announcement.
She pretended to not want the money.
In other words it will be washed at the Clinton Foundation where the war on hunger is being regulated.

Here's why I always liked Bernie.
Watch how he bashes Andrea Mitchell's husband and predicts the collapse of the housing markets years before it happened.
Janet Yellin also saw the trends but regulators and politicians thought by bringing in a foreign bank to re fi mortgages would stave off the bubble.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, that's a great, great clip.

Greenspan was an acolyte of the dominatrix and romantic novelist Ayn Rand, you know.


----------



## chimuelo

Well to put that one family in control of the Worlds Reserve currency as well as the 2nd most used currency he was really quite successful.
As we speak 4 million women slipped into poverty,
And the middle class lost 15 million jobs since 2007.
Same policies of regulating the power of the middle were played out over the last 9 years.
So you see Liberals and Conservatives are in essence the deep state, with minor differences like letting people with male body parts shower with girls.

The videos of Bernie I really wanted from the 90s are request only, then never recieved.
I remember them perfectly.
It was when I first became an admirer.
He sure got asset managers attention but thier control of these 2 law firms makes his chances slim to none.
Well see says the Zen Master.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Trump has stated that should he be elected President of these here United States of America, and David Cameron calls him up (after trying to appease anyone by calling Trump stupid publicly), he will tell him he's an asswipe and persona non grata in the USA.
Yes Greenspan was an asshole and partly responsible for the 2008 debacle.


----------



## chimuelo

That one family is totally against Trump and Sanders.
But they can kick in 50 million through surrogates in the general.
My guess is the first 4 years would be chipping around the edges, then 4 years of phuck yuze, I don't owe you Jack shit.
Hillary and Bill will do exactly as they're told while taking in millions to save Children puppies and kittens...


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, I beg you, tell me you're not a Bathroom Birther.

Oh, and I don't know much about the Clinton fund, but the Gates foundation has been instrumental in bringing down malaria, the most devastating worldwide disease, by about 50%. I've been contributing money to buy bed nets since 2007, and I got tell ya, that's some serious puppy/kitten/bleeding heart do-goodness. I'm sorry those afflicted didn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps and cure their own fucking selves, but jeez man.


----------



## chimuelo

Gates and Buffet dont take in 200,000,000 and pay out the lowest legal limit.

We see another Unionized Federal Liberal at the DVA with a foundation that drives a Royce.
Pays out 2% of 8,000,000 to familes and starving children. Lives off of tax payers.
Cant be fired because hes a Unionized Federal Liberal.

Trump doesnt have a foundation but helps fund free eye care clinics and other charities.

Clintons recently spent 100,000 dollars for thier suite while saving the children.
Boy they are going to make bank fighting income inequality if they reoccupy the White House.

But I suppose us poorly bred folks of doubtful origins must have wealthy white Liberals to help us.
Were just incapable of climbing over Liberal regulations and barriers they set in place but promise to take down if allowed 8 years of fundraising from the oval office.


----------



## Baron Greuner

If Trump becomes President, I hope if Dave goes to the USA, Trump physically attacks him, but Dave's advisers will have to tell him not to smarm all over Hillary if she wins, like he does when he sees Angela. He won't care that she's a liberal. He doesn't know the difference.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, where's the link to the $100,000 suite? Can't find it.

Re Clinton Foundation in general, I find these people to be fairly accurate:
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/06/where-does-clinton-foundation-money-go/

Donald must think so too. Gave 'em somewhere between $100,000 and $250,000 in 2015.


----------



## chimuelo

I found it easily.
Daily mail uk
Vanity fair
Nytimes

Even found 50k a week back in 2011.

It costs lots of money saving those kids.
50K a week was probably for puppies and kittens.


----------



## NYC Composer

So that was 100jk for a week then, 's what you're saying. How much did they raise for puppies, kitties and, er, third world poverty?

And the fact checking site? No response to the figures?


----------



## chimuelo

I guess the UN Red Cross and Peace Corp are no longer needed.
Cant blame them for fighting poverty in south pacific islands or wherever else they discover victims.
These American victims cost too much money, can only afford 50 and 100k rooms.
Go for the quarter million puppy kitten special in St. Tropez.


----------



## NYC Composer

If your point is that more needs to be done here at home, I agree with you. You sure can cherry pick though.

My personal cause, malaria, has been virtually wiped out in this country while still causing havoc in the lives of people worldwide. The U.N. has done its thing,WHO. Gates Foundation did it better. Why is that skin off your onion? Nobody made you contribute.

Hey, back on Trump, him and Megyn have made up. That's heartwarming, right?


----------



## Baron Greuner

I like what she did with her hair.


----------



## NYC Composer

A handsome woman.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Trump is dust...


----------



## chimuelo

Maybe dust with offended ones.

I'll settle for a ball buster as leader over another easily offended liberal victim.
Even if Tippy Canoe becomes VP she only has a following of avatars.
In real world voting these mooches could give every voter 100,000 in free treats or cash and they'll still lose.

Career politicians are history.
It's unthinkable for those who still feel their voice matters.
It doesn't.
Hillary was chosen for you.
Get over it...


----------



## NYC Composer

Remember- he loves everybody! He LOVES the poorly educated!

He was just joshing that handicapped reporter. Fuckin oversensitive handicapped.And he LOVES Hispanics. And women. And courageous prisoners of war, though he'd prefer they not be captured- I mean, wouldn't you??

When all is said and done, Donald is really just about love. Mostly self love, but he has a big heart and a big tent and a big.... ignore Little Marco, the Donald has true girth.


----------



## chimuelo

A politician will not win no matter how many fake polls and lying liberal media lapdogs try and convince others.

They are history.
So stupid are they that this was totally unforseen.

Bye bye white slave owners.
Your constituents will now join the middle class.
No more liberal college debt for worthless degrees.
Brave New world where working Americans are represented....


----------



## NYC Composer

Ok Jimmy, so we're now at the point where you will not address anything I say, so you just keep making speeches and so will I.


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> ...I'll settle for a ball buster ...



Translation: You and many Trump supporters aren't put off by his lack of ethics. You LIKE his lack of ethics.

ETHICS 101: Across cultures, incomes, and ages, there are five, well-established ethical principles:
* Compassion
* Honesty
* Fairness
* Responsibility
* Respect

Trump represents none of those things. But here's the rub: Many people see ethical behavior as weak. They'd rather support a "ball buster" - a mean, lying, cheating, rule-breaking cuss. In other words, an unethical person.

So when the ethically-minded give examples of the "ball buster" being unethical, the supporters don't just not care; they like the "ball buster" even more. The louder the racist bullying, the more the skinheads like it.

Personally, I see racism as deeply unethical as it lacks compassion, fairness and respect. And when people say, "I'm not a racist." that's like having a conversation about manslaughter and somebody saying, "I'm not a murderer." How weak can you get? Just as the right answer is, "I'm against murder and would take action to stop it.", the right answer about racism is, "I'm actively against racism."

A vote for Trump is a vote against ethics. It's an active vote for a belligerent racist. But it seems that lots of people are cool with that.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> Trump is dust...



It won't make a difference. They ran ads similar to that in the primary. Didn't hurt his campaign one bit.


----------



## chimuelo

Trust me I want Bernie.
I know he looks out for us.
But we watch the wealthy whites rig debate times, elude reporters, lie, lie, lie.
Same shit with keeping our doctors or 24/7 access to Irans Nuclear facilities.

No thanks.
So forgive me my brothas.
I have no choice but to become a brown skinned white racist.
I watched fake conservatives and wealthy white liberals take our nation into wars, massive debt, and now we are involved in 4 foreign actions where they dont seem to want to win.
No plan for fixing everything they phucked up.
They have NEVER represented me.
Why should I vote for them again.
I chose the smartest the most connected the wealthiest.
I got dicked big time and my grandchildren are slaves for the Central Planners debt.
I owe it to them to vote for a complete jerk, who only knows how to WIN....


----------



## NYC Composer

Yes, winning is important, unless it means a nuclear cloud that eventually blows over to you.

Tell me, what does winning look like in Syria? I have yet to see a politician, business leader, humanitarian, white/brown/yellow/red/anyothercolor racist who has a good answer to that.

What does winning look like in Afghanistan? You should ask my son.

What would winning look like in Yemen?

Yep, winning is important. If only there was a clear definition what that might look like.

Electing Mickey Mouse because he's not "The Establishment" is a really great fucking idea. Electing a guy who draws stick figures with crayon and adds captions with misspellings no one cares about, ya. Good idea. You've tried the rest now try the best. He's gonna make America great again. A large breasted woman for every man. Gold faucets for the masses.
Hey, he'd probably be great at telling people how to inherit.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Jimmy, I agree with your sentiment and understand your sentiment. I voted GOP in two of the biggest congressional landslides in history. I voted them to make a change, to fight for their constituents. And except for a few bright stars, they did nothing both times. They betrayed us. I owe the GOP no loyalty. I do believe I am through with them. That being said, I just can't vote for Trump. I think he's a bad man, and I do not think he will even attempt to do what he's promising. In fact, I think he's a Trojan Horse. But of course, I'm not voting Hillary, either.


----------



## chimuelo

Well if my guess is right, Putin will take the Georgian Corridor while Liberals are fundraising this summer.
Hope Im wrong but I can read a map.
Then I will explain my theory of Yemen, Chinas military base in Dhijbouti in the Red Sea. etc. etc.
Theres a reason Russia Syria and Iran do not engage ISIS.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I see the price of ObamaCare is about to rise. Premiums to rise substantially apparently.


----------



## NYC Composer

That's IT. I've decided I'm NOT voting for Obama in this election.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> I see the price of ObamaCare is about to rise. Premiums to rise substantially apparently.


As if $360 a month for a $5k deductible policy wasn't enough.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> That's IT. I've decided I'm NOT voting for Obama in this election.


Gotcha beat. It'll be the 3rd time I didn't vote for Obama.


----------



## chimuelo

These deductibles and costs are directly tied to a lack of growth and stagnating wages.
The liberals we sent to DC were removed for these reasons.
The fact a guy like Bernie can become so competitive or a guy like Trump can win shows you how much disdain Americans have for fake Liberalism.

I feel sorry for our soldiers the most.
They were sent to do a job and executed the missions with few injuries and complete success.

All the flawless victories were soon forgotten as our lawyers handled their victories with neolithic incompetance.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump has announced Lindsay Graham and Jeb Bush as his VP picks.
Judge Judy as one of the Supremes.


----------



## Baron Greuner

(1) What does the average (is there such a thing?) medical premium cost in the USA?

(2) What happens if you don't pay it?

(3) Is the health cover uniform, or do you have to pay more for more illnesses?

(4) Is there an age when you stop paying it, apart from death?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> (1) What does the average (is there such a thing?) medical premium cost in the USA?
> 
> (2) What happens if you don't pay it?
> 
> (3) Is the health cover uniform, or do you have to pay more for more illnesses?
> 
> (4) Is there an age when you stop paying it, apart from death?


(1) I don't know the average, but the lowest I could find before Obamacare was $220 with a $1500 deductible. After Obamacare, can't find one less than $360 and that's a $5000 deductible.
(2) The IRS assesses a find if you don't get insurance. They can't jail you if you don't pay teh fine. They can't garnish your wages. All they can do is take it oou of refund checks.
(3) Uniform, I think.
(4) I don't think there is an age limit.


----------



## chimuelo

You can see rich white Liberals discussing the angry peasants as they despise the lies used in getting this crony pay off law passed.

But the people are angry. Costs are rising they don't like it.

They're not supposed to like it. They're supposed to buy it.

All Capone would have been proud of these Liberal gangsters.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Of course, medical costs never went up before Obamacare. And everybody was covered, 200%. The health coverage situation was perfect before. Gee, thanks Obama.

But seriously, it's too bad we didn't get Hillarycare. It was single-payer. Maybe she should run for president...

To me, the big win with Obamacare is that people with pre-existing conditions can actually change jobs without losing coverage. The previous system where health insurance didn't pay out for those in deepest need was a real kick in the teeth. Health issues were the #1 driver of bankruptcy.

Regarding cheap insurance, you can't just look at the pricing. You have to look at the coverage. Obamacare cleaned up some of the fraudulent policies.

Some years ago, my brother in law was in a major accident caused by a junk yard truck. Nearly died. The junk yard had a cheap insurance policy based in the Cayman Islands. As soon as there was a big claim, they folded their tent and started a new company under a different name. Cash in; no cash out. But they had the lowest rate in town!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> You can see rich white Liberals discussing the angry peasants as they despise the lies used in getting this crony pay off law passed.



You can literally see it right here, from Jonathan Gruber, Obamacare Architect. "the stupidity of the American people" & "lack of transparency" is what got the bill passed.


----------



## chimuelo

The problem with medical costs goes back to lawyers suing doctors, this brought in insurance gangsters.
To be rescued from Gangsters of course the Gubmit steps in and takes a cut of the action, meanwhile Americans work harder longer to keep up with the market distortions created by Federal Investors....

I remember when my Dad handed the Doctor a 20, OMG can't have that, there's no action for the Gubmit, no tax, gotta stop this cheap medical care when we know Americans can be screwed for so much more.....

Now we have 2 middlemen, I can't even get a price when I ask the doctors what the costs were.
They don't even know.

We could easily bring the world to its knees by exporting Liberals wanting to "help" everyone around the globe.
Markets would crash, 5 year wait for a hearing. etc.
12 Muslim wives sue their Sheik for millions each, now they own Oil.

Trump will find a use for these mooches......


----------



## chimuelo

Meanwhile Back At The Ranch....

Here's a cool video.
Bernie had a great rally in Vallejo, California.
While he was taking on the wealthy white Liberals Trump reminded his supporters it was a lost cause by this.....


----------



## NYC Composer

"Trump leads Clinton in Fox News poll".

Perhaps we'll see a repeat of "Hope and Change"-people have given up "Hope" so they'll embrace "Change at Any Cost".

Or, in Brooklyn-ese- "T'row da bums out -we want NEW bums."

Whoever draws stick figures in crayon with misspelled captions wins. Exceptionalism NEVER felt this good.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Well Larry I watch Fox occasionally, and just like all channels they have their agendas. Sky TV has an enormous agenda atm for staying in the EU as explained before; these morons don't even try to hide it. Whereas the BBC want to stay in the EU, but their tactic is on more of an intellectual tack as they're not so far down the 'appealing to dirty trash vote' just yet, as Sky and ITV are. But they will be in the end.
When you're talking about any kind of election, in order to win it, you have to get the dirty trash on side first. This is the vast, vast majority of voters. If you try and appeal to the 5% of the electoral voters that know how to hold cutlery as your main target first, you will lose, because the other side won't be doing that. They'll be going for the big numbers.

I cannot see anyway that Clinton can lose this vote in November(?). Why? Simple. It's the fear factor. Fear of something so completely different. When Obama said change was coming, voters actually believed that. Not sure they really wanted to _believe_ it.
Now Trump is saying things are going to change, they may actually believe that and it will frighten the shit out of them at the final ballot box because they don't want to lose their benefits.. Although I can put all their minds to rest, because whenever someone tells you how much things will change, it generally goes the other way.

This is how Cameron beat Davies in the Conservative leadership battle and look at the outcome of that.

You get jaded by it all.


----------



## NYC Composer

So, Baron my Baron, would you like to see a Triumphant Trump? Just to see how it will all turn out? It could be fun, yes? You could fiddle while....

I seem to be remember the last time the American electorate decided to go with the low information guy, eight years of unbelievably misdirected war ensued. Who KNOWS who we could go to a very (corporately) profitable war with this time?


----------



## Baron Greuner

To understand all of this, you have to know what the dirty trash vote is. You should know this at your age Larry my boy!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> So, Baron my Baron, would you like to see a Triumphant Trump? Just to see how it will all turn out? It could be fun, yes? You could fiddle while....


I'm curious, what do you like about Hillary?


----------



## Baron Greuner

I will tell you that Michael, when you and Larry tell me what the dirty trash vote means.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> I will tell you that Michael, when you and Larry tell me what the dirty trash vote means.


I was actually asking Larry. I didn't think you liked Hillary. I don't know what the Dirty Trash vote means.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I was going to say, I'm completely indifferent to any politician.

The dirty trash/filthy scum vote just means voters that vote based on prejudice. In other words, there isn't really any thought that goes into the candidates. It's whether or not you don't like religions or specific religious groups, or you don't like people that have more money than you, will I lose or get less benefits,or are immigrants going move in next to me. That kind of thing. This type of voter usually allows the media to decide for them. It's like a TV channel block vote by proxy.

The other kind of voter tries to think it all through and bases his decision on what he believes he has intellectually thought through and finally arrived at. Might as well have tossed a coin in all honesty.


The integillent person doesn't bother to get out of bed and vote for any of these people.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> The other kind of voter tries to think it all through and bases his decision on what he believes he has intellectually thought through and finally arrived at. Might as well have tossed a coin in all honesty.


Let me see if I understand why you say they "might as well have tossed a coin".

I understand that to mean that we can research candidates' stated positions and then make an informed decision based on what they say they are about and what they say they do, but in the end even that is fruitless because they are liars who have no intention of living up to election promises.

Am I right?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> The integillent person doesn't bother to get out of bed and vote for any of these people.


What do intelligent people do, if not vote? Oh wait, do you mean these specific people? or voting at all?


----------



## chimuelo

I beg to differ.
I'm not prejudiced.
I want someone to win that makes Liberals and Conservatives remember they're there to serve the nation's interests instead of their investors.

I've lost patience with their pleasantries and especially the way they divide Americans.

I always support who ever wins but I want someone who has a record of winning somewhere.

Tired of lawyers and losers.
If they could see first hand the effects of the laws they sell by becoming a civilian again they might learn something.....


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Michael K. Bain said:


> What do intelligent people do, if not vote?





chimuelo said:


> I beg to differ.
> I'm not prejudiced.
> I want someone to win that makes Liberals and Conservatives remember they're there to serve the nation's interests instead of their investors.
> 
> I've lost patience with their pleasantries and especially the way they divide Americans.
> 
> I always support who ever wins but I want someone who has a record of winning somewhere.
> 
> Tired of lawyers and losers.
> If they could see first hand the effects of the laws they sell by becoming a civilian again they might learn something.....


I do not think you're racist. Never would've entered my mind at all. And to tell the truth, I don't see any evidence to support the idea that Trump is racist. And that's coming from a man who just can't stand him because of other things.

I agree with your philosophy, but I do not think Trump is your man. I do not think he is who he says he is.


----------



## chimuelo

I actually prefer being called a racist.
It means Im doing something right.
Strengthening borders to stop drugs and illegals sneaking across is now racist.
Which race would that be?
The Mexican Race?
Or stopping radical muslims from over staying thier visas and killing infidels by halting thier entry into the country.
Seems these radicals want to kill people, lets check them out, verify thier intentions.
How is that racist, and if it were which race is that.

Or how about our President who everyone loves to say is black?
Is he really black? Does he not have a white mother and went to the best schools thanks to white grandparents?
This whole victim race bull shit is a false narrative.
So when one of these folks more interested in symbolism over substance calls me ( a mixed race American) a racist, this pleases me.

Thier indoctrination was thorough, little hope for truth or reasoning with such N.Korean types.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> I actually prefer being called a racist.
> It means Im doing something right.
> Strengthening borders to stop drugs and illegals sneaking across is now racist.
> Which race would that be?
> The Mexican Race?
> Or stopping radical muslims from over staying thier visas and killing infidels by halting thier entry into the country.
> Seems these radicals want to kill people, lets check them out, verify thier intentions.
> How is that racist, and if it were which race is that.
> 
> Or how about our President who everyone loves to say is black?
> Is he really black? Does he not have a white mother and went to the best schools thanks to white grandparents?
> This whole victim race bull shit is a false narrative.
> So when one of these folks more interested in symbolism over substance calls me ( a mixed race American) a racist, this pleases me.
> 
> Thier indoctrination was thorough, little hope for truth or reasoning with such N.Korean types.



True & Correct!


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael, may I indulge myself for a moment here and ask you what you DON'T like about Hillary? Or even better, a list of her pros and cons?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael, may I indulge myself for a moment here and ask you what you DON'T like about Hillary? Or even better, a list of her pros and cons?


I'll let you go first.


----------



## NYC Composer

I started to write a long response then I stopped, because I pay attention to what you say. You can't vote for Hillary, you can't vote for Trump-which means you won't really be voting, because the other choices are a candidate who can't win or staying at home-so what are we really talking about here? The difference in our politics?


----------



## NYC Composer

I totally believe in "strengthening our borders" because I believe in any program that creates jobs, even stupid ones. As if people who are determined to get in won't find a way!

The idea of deporting 12 million people after we tacitly welcomed them as cheap labor is not only completely impractical, it is the closest thing to evil we've considered as a country for quite a while. Breaking up families, police state roundups. You want racism, there it is. Be happy.

1. "Mexico is sending rapists."

I didn't realize Mexico "sent" people to the U.S. My bad. More racism. Yay.

2. "We should stop Muslims from entering the country until we figure out what the hell is going on." Hmm. Did he say instead "we should get our shit together and start monitoring visa overstays?" Well, he may have, but his big statement on the issue is above. Racism? Nah, just prudence, right? This is really going to help policing efforts when we can't get information from more moderate Muslim citizens about things they hear due to policies like this.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I started to write a long response then I stopped, because I pay attention to what you say. You can't vote for Hillary, you can't vote for Trump-which means you won't really be voting, because the other choices are a candidate who can't win or staying at home-so what are we really talking about here? The difference in our politics?


I'm voting down-ticket and either a write-in or a 3rd Party candidate for Pres. You can call that "not really voting", but I'm voting my conscience, and that's what we should all do.


----------



## NYC Composer

I will be voting my conscience as well, which, for me, involves making practical choices.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

You do what you think you've gotta do. I never will vote for either.


NYC Composer said:


> I totally believe in "strengthening our borders" because I believe in any program that creates jobs, even stupid ones. As if people who are determined to get in won't find a way!
> 
> The idea of deporting 12 million people after we tacitly welcomed them as cheap labor is not only completely impractical, it is the closest thing to evil we've considered as a country for quite a while. Breaking up families, police state roundups. You want racism, there it is. Be happy.
> 
> 1. "Mexico is sending rapists."
> 
> I didn't realize Mexico "sent" people to the U.S. My bad. More racism. Yay.
> 
> 2. "We should stop Muslims from entering the country until we figure out what the hell is going on." Hmm. Did he say instead "we should get our shit together and start monitoring visa overstays?" Well, he may have, but his big statement on the issue is above. Racism? Nah, just prudence, right? This is really going to help policing efforts when we can't get information from more moderate Muslim citizens about things they hear due to policies like this.


You know something. I remembered his quote about illegal immigrants wrong. I thought he had said 'some" illegals are rapists and killers, but the opposite is true. He said that some - he assumes- are good people. Oh my. That was an eye opener and then I read other things he had said about other nationalities, and I must yield the point and agree that Trump is a racist.
I knew he was a bad person who loves to bully and insult women and mock disabled people, but didn't know he was a racist.


----------



## chimuelo

Michael K. Bain said:


> I knew he was a bad person who loves to bully and insult women and mock disabled people, but didn't know he was a racist.



And which race would that be?


----------



## chimuelo

Perhaps visit a Liberal stronghold and see Liquor stores on every corner, drugs from Mexico are killing blacks at record numbers.
Heroin is so cheap now lunch money can be used.


----------



## chimuelo

I think wealthy white Liberals importing voters at the expense of dead Americans is racist since it targets black neighborhoods.


----------



## NYC Composer

You are the angriest conservative pretending not to be a conservative I've ever read, Jimmy. Might be time to 'fess up.


----------



## NYC Composer

Think wealthy white conservatives killing people in Iraq for neo-con ideology and profit is racism, Jimmy?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> And which race would that be?


Donald Trump actually said "Mexico is not sending their best. They're sending lots of people who have problems, etc." So, that quote is not prejudiced against an entire nationality, but against certain people of that nationality who have entered the country illegally.
However, the tweeting against Jeb Bush's wife seemed pretty racist to me.


----------



## NYC Composer

Where is the evidence that Mexico is "sending" anybody?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Where is the evidence that Mexico is "sending" anybody?


There is no evidence of that. In fact, I've never heard that from anyone but him. But even if it's not accurate, what impact does that have on whether the statement is racist or not?


----------



## chimuelo

Does it matter what someone desperate to win an election says?
You can keep your doctor..period.
I did not have sex with that woman.....
Doctors amputate legs to make more money...

It only matters what somebody does.
Is Hillary or Obama not bullies because they speak with pleasantries?

So the arming of civilians causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people is OK because when the camera is running ypu can speak in a non offensive way.?

We are in a world of shit.
Id rather someone speak like a jerk and tell the truth than have lies and kind and gentle words to soothe me...

DJT 2016


----------



## NYC Composer

It suggests that people from lower class countries send their lower class people to pollute our clean white country.

Btw-regarding drugs, interdiction efforts, from drug czar Bill Bennet on, have been wildly unsuccessful.we have to try, just to keep 30% less drugs from coming in, but people are going to keep getting high and profit motives mean that drugs will continue to enjoy a market. We need to concentrate on addiction, depression etc through education and supportive services.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'd rather people weren't jerks, and I notice that they are often jerkier on the Interwebs and on Twitter where they will not have their faces bashed in. It's funny- very few people are directly jerky to my face. I guess most people are blowhards and cowards.


----------



## chimuelo

Actually most people are civil until some form of competition arises.
And Larry I agree. Any Liberal or Conservative who overlooked our borders is a loser, only concerned with lengthening their careers.
This is the motivation that cripples the political body.

Also why I want somebody who wins instead of another career lawyer cooking the books.

Any immigrant in search of a better life is a patriot without papers.
Nobody wants them deported.

I actually believe by having someone scary like Trump saying inflamatory statements might make good muslims roll over on the bad ones, maybe have gang leaders picked out in a line up and beaten severely before deporting.

We do know the kind and non offensive pleasantries used by the political body is ineffective.

Roll the dice.
Or keep using losers.
Easy decision for me.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> It suggests that people from lower class countries send their lower class people to pollute our clean white country.


He didn't even say a thing about "lower class". He said "killers, rapists, etc.".

Some of these race-baiters might accuse you of making the claim that "lower class" = "killers, racists, etc". Do not misinterpret what I said. I know you are not racist. But the race-baiters twist words.

And he wasn't suggesting that the Mexican people send the "killers and rapists" in order to pollute our "clean white country". He was suggesting that the Mexican Government sends them in order to get them out of Mexico. I know he's talking about the Mexican government & not the people because in a similar quote, he actually said "Government" instead of "they".


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm glad you're still stuck on the handicapped mocking and hopefully the veteran POW mocking Michael, 'cause it sounds like you're talking yourself into Trump. 

Hey, speaking of race baiting, how are you on that deportation thingie?

Jimmy- I do understand where you're coming from. Our system is deeply deeply flawed- but I am totally mistrustful of rolling the dice with some one who knows as little about the world at large as DJT does.


----------



## chimuelo

What world is that?
Where Hillary gets off a plane and deals with another corrupt leader fleecing their people?
Trump deals with businessmen and other billionaires around the world.
He buys Liberals.
Maybe they can learn from him.
Seems everything he says since he started shooting off his mouth makes things happen.
Korea, Chinas first condemnation, ICE deportations, many other subtle changes Ive seen just because he chips around the edges.
Obama has gotten alot done with ISIS since Trump said to bomb thidr oil fields.

Take a chance, jump in for the big win.

I cant believe the media didnt report on the Planes buzzing Bernies rally in Vallejo.
Its so inexpensive and ingenious.
Things a winner would do.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey Jimmy- get off lawyers for a minute, will ya? My dad was a lawyer for the short time he lived, and he helped people. Lincoln was a lawyer and so, if you wish, was Antonin Scalia.

What world? One with geography and the names of the leaders of countries and the interrelationships between them. One where bankruptcy isn't feasible and diplomacy is necessary regardless of how you personally detest it.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I'm glad you're still stuck on the handicapped mocking and hopefully the veteran POW mocking Michael, 'cause it sounds like you're talking yourself into Trump.



I had forgotten about the veteran mocking. McCain's only a hero cause he got caught...He likes soldiers that didn't get caught. 

Despicable. 

Heck no, I'm not talking myself into Trump. just calling `em how I see `em. 

Am now and will always be nevertrump and neverhillary.



NYC Composer said:


> Hey, speaking of race baiting, how are you on that deportation thingie?



Honestly, I don't know much about how it would work, but I think I'm for "path to citizenship" for those illegals who have been here and been productive members of society.


----------



## chimuelo

It wasn't suppose to work.
It's a campaign promise.
Easy to use Congress as a reason for refining your position.
Have you forgotten the Liberal promises from 2008.

This time people see the Forest Through The Trees.
Trump could say I will give all undocumented immigrants citizenship if you have a clean record.
Stealing these patriotic workers from Liberal slavery.
I think he's going to destroy both parties and create a united American Party.

I know nothing changes with Liberals and Conservatives.
I can predict frozen wages and higher deductibles.

Middle class deserves a winner after 16 years of liars and losers.


----------



## NYC Composer

I have my disappointments with Obama, of course, and of course politicians always say things to get elected.

However, in the course of my lifetime, Ivdon't remember a candidate who took the " say ANYTHING to get elected,no matter whether you believe it or not or how odious and disgusting the position might be" approach. A winning formula for the future!

At least George Wallace and David Duke believed the horrible shit they said.


----------



## chimuelo

You know I am going to be giving you 100 sampled sounds since The asset managers will never allow a Trump to win.
So until that day watching Hillary grow strong from the actual competition they never saw coming should be cherished.
If she survives the Donald she will have proven herself worthy to remain among us.
Other world leaders will bow to the Clinton's again. Earth will be saved.

So you're going to earn the sampled sounds, and it will be well worth the loss to enjoy seeing her and Bill get roasted.
Plus I get to torture you every time you try getting all philosophical and shit.


----------



## NYC Composer

...AND I get to give you agita about fuckin liberals in New Yawk....

Hey, I enjoy spirited debate. Keeps me sharp. Ish.

(and I'll take my 100 sampled sounds in tech advice when I build my PC or Hackintosh or whatever )


----------



## chimuelo

Did you enjoy the Trump Planes buzzing the Bernie Rally in the video above?

He's going to make this the best election ever.


----------



## NYC Composer

Missed the vid. Tomorrow


----------



## chimuelo

I'll sum it up for you.
It's a 5 second video.

Sanders supporters are on the waterfront in Vallejo cheering on the Bern.
And the whole time 2 planes Buzz overhead like Coney Island with Banners that say " Bernie's Done...Vote Trump".
A compsoser/film friend of mine told me about it.
The guy is a serious ball buster....


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hahaha! Jimmy you're not seriously thinking this guy could make President right?


----------



## chimuelo

I sure do.
But I also believe in the Asset Managers and real powers of Crisis Management.

We live in a world based on the Golden Rule.
He who has the Gold, makes the rules.
Clinton's and Trump understand this more than any of us ever will.

Follow the money.
80 billion a month goes unreported to Wall Street Banks by the Asset Managers.
Hillary go's there to get her cut by giving a speech. Actually many speeches
These rich whites would never let Bernie build his Venezuelan utopia here. 
They sure as he'll don't need Trumps permission either.
Obama wants nothing to do with ISIS.
Yet when told to make some moves he follows orders just like everyone else does.
I'm actually thinking of composing the Rothschild Rap album.
Instead of a record deal I sell them the publishing and sign an NDA for 20 million.

I just need the FBI to reconstruct the other 30,000 emails so I can finish the remaining tracks.


----------



## NYC Composer

You know, nothing says ""I understand the middle class" like being born wealthy and currently living in both a $200,000,000 Florida estate and a $100,000,000 Manhattan Penthouse.


----------



## chimuelo

It is appealing since he's a winner.
But having losers as leaders has advantages.
They have to follow orders so asset managers can control the amount of debt we get to pay for these fake unresolved never ending wars on poverty, starvation, puppies and kittens.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Speaking of winning, my brother told me that some people will automatically support the person who's currently in the lead. I don't understand that philosophy, and to tell the truth I doubted it's a real phenomena. However, I talked to a Trump supporter the other day who said she supported Cruz until Trump started winning. Wow. I just don't get that at all. Of course, she was never a serious Cruz supporter if she left because the opponent was winning.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I started to write a long response then I stopped, because I pay attention to what you say.


I've been wondering: what does this mean?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Michael K. Bain said:


> my brother told me that some people will automatically support the person who's currently in the lead. I don't understand that philosophy,



I thought I already explained all of that to you.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> I thought I already explained all of that to you.


To be honest, you probably did. My memory is horrible, and that's not just an excuse. It's awful.


----------



## chimuelo

Thats OK Mike.
Just dont forget to vote for Trump.

Ankyu


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Thats OK Mike.
> Just dont forget to vote for Trump.
> 
> Ankyu


I'll write it down on my calendar. 8th Tuesday in November, right? Or have they moved it back to the day pigs fly over a frozen hell in a handbasket?
Urelcome


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> I've been wondering: what does this mean?


it means I remember the things you say


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> it means I remember the things you say


Okey doke, gotcha. Thanks


----------



## G.R. Baumann

I guess you folks are more up to speed with the presidential. I just follow this from a distance and not with daily news feeds. What I wonder about is this:

With Mr. Trump scooping up some considerable electorate, assuming he'll be the next candidate for the republicans.

Would voting for Mr. Trump not be a rather supportive vote for Billary? Assuming that there is no chance in Hell that Trump will be the next potus.


----------



## NYC Composer

...just like according to every pundit (and me) there was no chance in hell he'd ever get the Republican nomination, you mean?


----------



## chimuelo

Really coincidental how the Criminal investigation is perfectly timed.
Remember how it was suppose to wind up in Fedrurary?
Same time as she was suppose to be crowned according to the DNC Dirtbags.
Now it's timed for winding down by June when they figured Bernie would be beaten.
Obviously he hanging in there for the indictments.
President has his handle on the Toilet Chain.
He always manages to put himself in positions where he has maximum leverage.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

NYC Composer said:


> ...just like according to every pundit (and me) there was no chance in hell he'd ever get the Republican nomination, you mean?



yeah.... guess so! Regardless where I look, Austria today!.... Turkey.... US.... It all turns into a nuthouse with absolutely crazed people at the helm.... dangerous.


----------



## chimuelo

Indeed they are crazy at the Helm.
Which is why folks want new people.

That scary 60 nation coalition will be replaced.
Its leaders will carry on thier bold cause and live amongst the refugees.
Yeah, in thier dreams.....

Thats the problem with "leaders" and career politicians.
The legislation they pass never affects them.
Does anyone think guys with dicks wearing dresses will shower with the Presidents daughters?

Personally such laws do not bother me, they arent needed. People already do what they wish.

But now lots of nervous parents and the people this stupid law was designed for have possibly become targets. Even though they do not lobby for this.

Its amazing that these out of touch leaders cant figure out why they're losing seats in local state and federal elections.

Think we owe the Prez a big thank you for speeding this along.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Well, I used to know moderate republicans, some of their views were not compatible with my views, especially on the weapons question, but mostly we were able to find some common ground, same with democrats. But someone like Trump? Gimmi a break!

How much deeper can a nation fall to even consider someone like him? But it is not the US alone, a general system break down can be observed on many fronts.

The way I see it, as absurd as it is to have Trump up for any public position, even as a major for Ocracoke Islands with a population of around 1000 people when I visited, as absurd it is that the EU considers to cooperate with Ethiopia, Sudan, Somalia and Eritrea, the worst east african dictatorships to deflect refugees.

These aspects of a new "global Absurdistan" are hints of the social collapse, on all fronts.

As for the US and their 10 years GWOT campaign, I can recommend this "body-count" document from 2015.



> This investigation comes to the conclusion that the war has, directly or indirectly, killed around 1 million people in Iraq, 220,000 in Afghanistan and 80,000 in Pakistan, i.e. a total of around 1.3 million. Not included in this figure are further war zones such as Yemen. The figure is approximately 10 times greater than that of which the public, experts and decision makers are aware of and propagated by the media and major NGOs.



http://www.psr.org/assets/pdfs/body-count.pdf

Beyond the slightest of doubts, should Trump come into office, this body count will increase.... That is not to say that this would not be equallty true for Clinton.

Great prospects.... right!


----------



## Hannes_F

Reading through this thread I learn that maybe what we see now is a phase in a transformation process:

A. USA intended to be a republic
B. Struggles to include more democratic elements into it by some
C. Likewise struggles to include more plutocratic elements by others
D. Overall frustration and "giving in" by a growing part of the population that after all seems to prefer an open plutocracy (Trump) over what seems to them to be a plutocracy covered by a democratic coat

Whatever happens in the US usually happens in Europe too, albeit with some time delay and slightly dampened. That is why I am interested, not in order to point fingers.


----------



## NYC Composer

Very interesting perspective, Hannes.

It does seem the peasants have taken up the pitchforks and torches. Someone once said that people get the leadership they deserve.i guess we'll see.

I think Clinton is deeply flawed. I find Donald Trump unimaginable.


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## Baron Greuner

Hannes you're a gent. 

What I'm fascinated by at this moment in time, albeit because of some of my Austrian and German ancestry I suppose, is the vote in Austria. I didn't know that was going on until yesterday and I believe they're awaiting the outcome of the postal vote. I don't trust postal votes. Postal votes can be rigged so easily.


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## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> I think Clinton is deeply flawed. I find Donald Trump unimaginable.



FFS this is what I keep telling you Yanks Larry. How come with a population of 330 million, you can only come up with these kind of candidates. God knows, I realise England is worse on a pro rata basis, but WTF?


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## NYC Composer

I offered myself up as Emperor, but they decided to go this way.


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## G.R. Baumann

Hi Hannes, 

on US/EU perception, there are many "half state" think thanks et al., hence not state run per se, but being strictly sworn to US policies, and they are the tools for forcefeeding "the empires wishes". 

Exaggeration? All considered, I don't think so.


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## Baron Greuner

HaHa. Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry look methinks.

So where are we now? I guess the USA is just treading water and waiting for the main bout of the evening as they say. Everything seems to have finished ridiculously early and the whole thing has seemingly moved into a phoney war for the moment.

The Austrian vote looks like a complete vote against Merkel. Not in anyway surprised by that because it was always on the cards. This could go viral around Europe if Austria do in fact win the conservative vote.


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## chimuelo

Nice observation Hannes.
Elevated thinking.

People want an outsider and see Sanders and Trump as thier choice.
Watching the corrupt system kicking and screaming as they lose the peoples support is long overdue.

Sometimes the fields must burn to make a future harvest better.

Zen Master says we'll see.

Would love a minister of the future like Sweden.
Definately want the German work cycle.
In the union trades and music the workers can come and go as they wish.
I KNOW this works.
My motivation has been well focused due to that factor.
Most Americans get a week or two and dont know how to enjoy themselves.

Trump 2016


----------



## chimuelo

An Austrian developet I know hated having Eastern Europeans absorbed as he claimed they always stealing and robbing the elderly and preyed upon the weak.
Always thought he was too dramatic in his generalizations, but the recent influx or refugees obviously has taken its toll not only on him but many of his countrymen.

Who goes first UK or Austria.?


----------



## NYC Composer

Does anybody really believe there will ever be a time when the world has an empire gap? I mean sure, right now it's us, but what about the British Empire? The German Empire? The Roman, the Greek, the Persian? Someone will be next- maybe the Chinese, or Sino-Chinese empire? The new Ottoman Empire? Perhaps we will all look back longingly at the good old days of U.S. rule. It's far from impossible.

It startles me that people seem to forget that the two greatest of world conflagrations happened within a hundred years ago, and they were not brought on by the "American Empire."


----------



## Baron Greuner

What was a small but fairly significant observation this morning, was the so-called interview of Ian Duncan Smith on Sky TV news. Duncan Smith is a leave campaigner and his side are now obviously aware that they have no real chance of getting anything over when being interviewed on Sky. Sky and the BBC have their own agenda. Sky being a lot bigger than the BBC and have a lot more to lose if they vote to come out of Europe. It's the TV companies that will decide the vote in the UK. The public are merely incidental.

This is the problem. On one hand you have a Prime Minister who should never have even have made a comment on the vote, never mind take sides with his trail of snot in tow also. He is an appeaser. His main object in life is to appease. He is strolling around the fucking place with hard line left wing labour MPs to get the vote in that he wants. That's a serious mistake on his part, because even though he will certainly win the remain vote through salesmanship without any backed up factual evidence, he will certainly be made to fall on his sword after it's over at some point.

The Austrian vote will go very close either way from what it sounds like. The UK vote in June will be a landslide remain vote. The Austrians aren't voting (directly) about remaining in the EU. This is for their leadership of the their country and probably for their survival.

The British Empire has now turned into an anchor around it's neck. Anyone that's English doesn't want a British Empire if they have any sense. That was mostly brought about by an insane monarch.


----------



## chimuelo

So while everyone speaks of aggressions, or new movements of change, its always crazy white people screwing things up.
Nothing much changed in the last 800 yesrs.
Asians, Indians, Hispanics and Blacks be saying day-amn those m-fers be crazy....


----------



## chimuelo

Interesting read today on how Trump might actually have to put up his own money.
He has said he is self funding.
Zen Master says we'll see if he puts his money where his mouth is.


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## NYC Composer

...so he's gonna turn down Shelley Adelson's 100 mil?


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## chimuelo

He cost Super PACs 200,000,000.
Dont see them anxious.
But sure love watching Karl Rove crash and burn.............again.
Only in DC can someone win for 4 years.
Then lose for 12 before people start walking out.


----------



## NYC Composer

..and yet really, it was Karl Rove's philosophy from years ago that won Trump the nomination.

"Say anything-you can always take it back."


----------



## chimuelo

If you like your doctor...you can keep him....period.

Obama was most impressive. Stopped programming my Ambika to see what he said.
What a great speaker tonight in Viet Nam.
I never knew Thomas Jefferson sent ships to Siam.
We are selling arms to Viet Nam.
A great way to promote peace through superior firepower....
My boys best buddy just came back from Afghanistan.
His family fled Viet Nam.
He was a Hmong fighter.
Got pictures of his grandaddy with a Bow and arrow walking point for advisors when he was 13.

We always become best friends with former enemies.

Son, why did you come to Viet Nam.
Well, I wanted to see the Jewel of the Orient.
Visit an ancient culture.
Meet the people, then kill them....

Private Joker


----------



## NYC Composer

"I.....AM.......in a world...of.....shit....."

Private Pyle


----------



## chimuelo

Great Emulator II samples in that movie.
While flushing out the female sniper Reverse Waterphone sample was awesome.


----------



## NYC Composer

Gooooooooood morning Vietnaaaaaaaaaaaam !!!!!!!!

Today's tactic- allegations of murder brought back by the Donald!! He's not saying it, but "many many people have been talking about it." 

Hmmm. Have we seen Hillary's birth certificate yet?


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## Baron Greuner

Austria wound up 50.3% for the left and 49.7% for the right. Very close.


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## NYC Composer

How do you feel about that, my Baron?


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## Baron Greuner

I don't have feeling about it one was or another Larry. Just numbers to me.


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## JonFairhurst

I'm in Vienna right now, attending international meetings. I'd like to think that our group's positive energy helped influence things. 

OT Tangent: I attended the Mozart/Brahms concert Saturday at the Musikverein Brahms Saal. It was great! They wear period costumes - including white wigs - and performed beautifully. The soprano was simply amazing. It was especially fun that they closed with the Radetzky March, given that our community orchestra closed our spring concert with the same tune.

I wish I could stay in town Thursday night. There will be a free performance by the Vienna Philharmonic that is expected to draw 100,000 people. What a musical city!

Our host's introduction included him announcing music events and proudly noting that he is a musician. After today's meeting, he and another were cleaning up and kicking us out. Why? because they had to get ready for a concert tonight in their business building. Then he showed me the venue. We walked through an annex, he opened a large door, and there was a huge, ornate, wood-lined performance hall that would seat about 200 people with a beautiful grand piano on the stage. Gee. Why don't we have that down the hall from my US cubicle?

Back on topic: Trump sucks.


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## chimuelo

Always wanted to go to Zawinuls Club and stay with friends there.
Definately a artisans city.

It's okay to stray off topic.
Trump 2016-2024.


----------



## NYC Composer

This just in-moronic Trump protesters go violent in Nes Mexico, while Elizabeth Warren chides Trump for his 2006 statement about profiting from the Great Recession. Just an average news day at the circus.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yeah I just watched pepper spray madness on Sky mad TV. What was that all about apart from the entertainment value.


----------



## chimuelo

Flush them beaners out into the open for early mass deportations....

Pocahontas is doing more work now than she has done since joining the wealth inequality fighters.

Love watching these putos getting doused with pepper spray.
California will be awesome in June.
El Chapos captains won't give up Thier drug stores there without a fight.


----------



## NYC Composer

I won't give up without a fight either if Donald "they have to go back" J. Trump is allowed to put his idiot plans into
motion.

That's some funny shit, Jimmy. I mean, what matches mass deportations when ya need a good chuckle?


----------



## chimuelo

Wasserman Shultz is a traitor to Bernie supporters.
And for bringing Clinton's tons of money from China dirtbags McDonald has admitted the Chinese politician that paid his 120,000 dollar vacation has a Green Card.

Wealthy white Liberals are awesome...


----------



## chimuelo

Good..get out there with drug dealers, and criminals being let of jail to vote then.
Think about all of the black mothers fighting to keep their kids off drugs while you're frothing around with your bros.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Yah- California gardeners selling heroin out of their trucks-lettuce pickers hiding the drugs in the produce, maids secreting heroin under their little caps. And those kids with their book bags!

In 1938, I wonder what your justification would have been for loading those Jews into the cattle cars-have ya read any Goebels? Gotta keep the race pure...


----------



## chimuelo

Settle down Abby Hoffman.
Mexicans with jobs don't have time to throw rocks at cops.
Besides those folks love their wealthy white Masters and they would carry an American flag, not a Californian......oooooopps....I meant...a Mexican flag.

Hankyu..


----------



## NYC Composer

Listen, mixed racist Duke, I ain't the one tarring 12 mil with the same brush. You are a generalist of high order!


----------



## chimuelo

The only thing I paint is new bay markings on my ATAs as I head to Sweden.
Just love watching Liberals freak out thinking they might have to cut their own grass or pay more for some rocks.
He'll prices are already rising.
I use to only buy a 40 after gigs but it's really a 40 that costs 80.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Haha! I love this thread. But you know what they say. Travelling is better than arriving. Come November the whole thing will be a deflation. 
I've written a piece of music to this thread that's going on the album! Haha!


----------



## chimuelo

Well Hillary had a brief moment of honesty that was the most valid comment I ever heard from her.
She said she is the best choice as she wants to unite people, Trump wants to divide, Bernie over promises that got us where we are now.....and will create even more frustrated voters

That happens to be reality.

Lets see if the douche bag consultants that arent amped up on Aderall or Meth caught that brief moment.

If they did thats a winning campaign slogan.

Also kind of shows she gets it, maybe.


----------



## NYC Composer

....and then there was the State Department report on her email server......


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Haha! I love this thread. But you know what they say. Travelling is better than arriving. Come November the whole thing will be a deflation.
> I've written a piece of music to this thread that's going on the album! Haha!


Right?? Win, lose or draw, we'll always have the thread......


----------



## passsacaglia

Heya guys, haha, I promise to read all the 40+ pages I missed til now.
But, being a swede, having most of the things Bernie wants, I must say That guy...is the fuggin man. 

Many of my friends, almost everyone think Trump is...a total dumbaess, some just like him because they have a lot of money just like himself and think he's a funny guy. 
About $hillary, I mean...do people actually believe in her and her corrupt politics, I think it's sad people don't read more and follow up what's really happening. It's like that, Bernie is the bullied guy that "can't win" but wins in the end. Really amazed of all the people coming to the rallys, voting, sharing the support, to me he is the only one who could save America once and for all. I don't know everything of course about how much things costs, insurance etc.
But discussing a lot of costs...with friends in the states and cousins..I just feel that people pay so much and get less.
Being average or under that, economically it can be and must be frustrating, and I can't imagine if someone gets sick..I mean really sick.

Pretty much, everything is "paid" here, or to a low cost. 
Insurance and home/life insurance is around 12-15 bucks a month and you get Everything. If you have stuff worth more than X million, you can have some Black vip insurance for superdupercost, or what Bernie would call it the top 1% insurance haha. 
Ok so, around 15 bucks a month for insurance.
Medical cost: Seeing a doctor (GP), will cost you 36 dollars, seeing a specialist just add 20 bucks. From there, you can have surgery fixed (eye, stomach, anything), I think that you are guaranteed a surgery within 3 weeks, bam!
Both in medical fees and at the pharmacy, if you reach a level of 132 USD, you get a "free card" and you can go as many times within that year to the doctor or a specialist. Ofc, this will be taken from the "paid" gov. money which is in the budget. So, more sick patients costs more for the society. This can be discussed on people "abusing" the system etc. And in the pharmacy there's this amount that you need to reach and the prices are lower and reduced for medicines, often patients with chronic diseases etc. 
Food is normal for an EU country, under average or average. Visiting my brother in London we were chocked by the price of...let's say chicken and some foods. As always, the crappy foods cost less.
School is paid, you pay a minor fee for kindergarden because 99% of them are private companies. 
Pre school, middle school, high school / gymnasium, university, everything is paid. The only thing you must have if you want to become a doctor, lawyer, engineer, anything...is the grades, if you just work "a little harder", you will be fine. More and more universities are having the medicine program, law school etc because the need is increasing by all the retirements...
I remember many people arguing which was the best country to live in...having friends all over the states, europe, asia, anywhere...coming from Sweden, so many people are agreeing on that, it's probably one of the best countries to live in. Some might agree on that people abusing the contribution our country offers, well sure, I agree on that.
If you can stay home and get $2300 a month, compared to a job where you get $1800 a month ofc people are doing this and the regulations is very low and the system is not controlled very good. ...but as a whole, Superb country to live in. 

So, what is my point...I am just...so...confused on why so many people...don't vote for Bernie?! 
He would, seriously make it better for the whole country in whole, because it's right now very divided. Sure, it has 52 states but United States, as a whole. To us, it feels that it's the poor, some average and the top %. The "rich" doesn't care about the others because themselves are doing fine. Politically wise, Hillary's "bought" companies like Oil companies, Big Pharma (I'm in the pharma branch) etc, lobbyists just...caring about their companies and money and not about the global warming, medicine cost that are rising high because of the patents, people want to make money, everything that Bernie says about the NAFTA, Hillarys super PAC's and...a yeah, the list goes on. 
I just don't see why, more people and like..the whole US is not voting for him, because the world would totally be a better place to live in and as well the whole US. People WOULD like to work more, Would be able to go to college etc and get an education, the crimes Would indeed decrease and...yeah, the list goes on. 
It's...like kindergarden stuff, not listening to the "smart guy" because he's got glasses or, something like this.

Of course, I don't live in the US and I know that people have different backgrounds, but...being a democrat, I'd never vote for that woman, no, fuggin way, ever. She just want that title, get the money, be the first lady in history, make sure every big company is happy, invade more countries and have fake promises, a liar. 
I really hope that people get together, see what Bernie can do and actually achieve and save for the US and make it a better place to live in. If she wins, it would be even worse than with Obama, for true. 
Then, I'd def. pick Trump if Bernie is not being there... but, ahh...I really wish Bernie wins and that people connect, talk, believes in him, the honest Obi Wan wich pure passion and compassion for the people of the United States.

Learn from Europe, learn from Sweden, Believe in Bernie and...it will be just alright and US will blossom. 
That's my philosophy )
/D-man


----------



## NYC Composer

D-Man, great post- I want to digest it a bit before answering.

In the meantime, let me ask you a question. How would you feel if the U.S. stepped down militarily? By that I mean, destroy or decommission our nuclear arsenal, decommission our naval fleet, shut down our Air Force except for bare bones, cut our military personnel by 80%, basically just pull in and stand down. In your view, would that be a happy moment for you? For Sweden?


----------



## passsacaglia

NYC Composer said:


> D-Man, great post- I want to digest it a bit before answering.
> 
> In the meantime, let me ask you a question. How would you feel if the U.S. stepped down militarily? By that I mean, destroy or decommission our nuclear arsenal, decommission our naval fleet, shut down our Air Force except for bare bones, cut our military personnel by 80%, basically just pull in and stand down. In your view, would that be a happy moment for you? For Sweden?


Hey man, no prob! Of course, that's a difficult question and as a quickie..I think that, one can divide the whole situation into "economy", "military" etc. and take it from there.
Give me couple of hours and I'll just finish some studies I do for my thesis and I'll get back to you

I have never liked politics in my youth, only thing I was a little disappointed in was when the school system did not treat me correctly and nice sometimes, but that was 0.001% of the swedish school and a minor problem, also it was in the 90s and just for That particular school. But, since all this is happening with all the wars, politics etc happening things are more interesting than ever. Trying to read about the USA-Israel thing, US allies in the east, Hillary letters about the pro-Israel and "war" against Iran etc. This can be argued forever.

But, to the point. It can be bad, good, between and there can be X people arguing for Pro's and X people arguing for Con's. Will try to make a Pros and Cons list soon of what I think of it and link it to the situation atm with US allies and non allies and superpowers with an YUGE arsenal of nuclear arms, which indeed is scary. 
Ha, I mean, ofc wouldn't it be nice if it was peace all over the world, which is impossible today...
But yeah, give me an hour or so and I'll get back with some wise conclusions and pro's and con's from a swede )
Personally I'm not the person who likes arguing and debating politics, I just wanted to make a point of illumination that could possibly bring some brightness to Bernie's campaign and, maybe make people and Hillary and Trump supporters think for a while...
A quick question to you, what are Your and you guys assumption of...letting Trump be the face of USA and how would relations with other countries be, and do you think he would be a risk to some countries? (If we exclude his crazyness with the latinos and the wall etc), but the USA and EU, middle-east and Asian powers. Would he be a threat and be a hot chili in global relations?


----------



## NYC Composer

Bedtime for me, be back atcha when I wake.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Haha! I like your style and how nice it must be in Sweden with all that cheap insurance.

Unfortunately, you have stumbled into a conversation that's maybe a little bit beyond your understanding of American politics and you've come across as a teenager. Good that you should take an interest though. Brave chap!

I'm not going to answer any of your points because I can't bring myself to hurt your feelings. Larry and the boys can take it, but I don't think you're up to it just yet.


----------



## passsacaglia

Baron Greuner said:


> Haha! I like your style and how nice it must be in Sweden with all that cheap insurance.
> 
> Unfortunately, you have stumbled into a conversation that's maybe a little bit beyond your understanding of American politics and you've come across as a teenager. Good that you should take an interest though. Brave chap!
> 
> I'm not going to answer any of your points because I can't bring myself to hurt your feelings. Larry and the boys can take it, but I don't think you're up to it just yet.


Haha alright, then I might be out soon! Reading all old threads from you guys incl Larry, master Chim, You and the rest. 
The point was that, I feel compassion for the US marines, soldiers, all fighting in the mid-east wars, lost soldiers etc that a man/woman fought for. About ISIS, one can debate on who they are and who "created" them and what would be the best thing fighting them. 

I'm 27, yes, and I'v worked really hard in school, as well as making music (which I love more than anything, and I don't care if I will be a big name in the music industry or not, I just love to create new things for those who like), and right now I will, keep on doing that and hope the best for the world  In my view, reading, listening, hearing from a man like Bernie makes me and people I know happy, maybe the world Could be a happy place one day? I dunno, I just hope.

Sweden actually has done that to its military and people are furious here, there are rumours that Russia will invade someday and there's a hidden battle in the nordic sea with crossing land territories etc from russian planes and submarines. So, I think the world would think that if US would shut down its military, people here would be scared etc. So, I think it is tough decision, and like I said, one can argue for what would be good and what wouldn't be.

Haha, and thank you for saving me from accidently jumping into this debate. I was just curious and wanted to share some Swedishness and what I, would think would be good for the US. 
Some general assumptions and which one can dislike, but to me:
I think some people which have big influences and power have their little part of the game of the US history.
Over here, almost everyone is convinced that the really tragic attack in Sept 2001 was totally made by the US gov. for example. My personal believes how harsh they may sound is that, I really do believe that also watching all the evidence videos people have made, the mystical stuff happening there days before etc. list can goes on.
Personally, I believe in the Rotschild-conspiracy, that some powers "created" the ISIS, the 9/11 fix-up and some other things...the conspiracy documentary "Did we land on the moon" is also very interesting, but I will leave that for now.
I think that, reading most of Lar and Chims posts here I understand both of their thinking and can agree with both of their arguments. Baron, it's hard, it's difficult. I appreciate your and everyone elses' kindness.
My post was just a little thinking of a Swede and his favor for Bernie, and I think it's really interesting hearing from you guys what you think of all the candidates. 
I found some interesting things in this old thread ( http://vi-control.net/community/threads/obama-and-syria.49104/#post-3902366 ) on some other interesting topics, offtopic but, yeah, I will still stand on most of Bernie's arguments and in the long run I think he would be the best shot compared to the ones in the race.
So yeah, maybe I'll be a little diplomatic at the moment and chill, but I am not the guy that is arrogant and wanted to brag with living here or so, no no. I have many relatives and good friends in the states and all over the world (both non-swedish parents), at the moment I really hate (some) politics, you can say that I would be a son/grandson to Bernie Sanders living in a really rich and wealthy neighbourhood here in Stockholm, seeing both sides of the penny, a big hearted "young man", who just loves to play the piano and educate. So, from today I will focus on my music, finishing my thesis and begin an IT-architect job for an e-health company, and hope I will reach out with my music. 
But yeah, I just really hope that either Bernie or a good candidate will win and hopefully can bring something good to this world, making it better for people with chronic diseases, aids, hiv, cancer treatmetns etc and also think about global warming and some of the poor people.


----------



## passsacaglia

Baron, sure! It's cool, and I don't think I would be hurt or so... I think it's wise to, hear what you guys have to say, and learn from that. I always read stuff, like to learn new things everyday and stay updated.
And yes, it's reeally difficult not having the age and growing up earlier and not being a US citizen, that would make things a lot easier. But, to me it is just interesting hearing your arguments and try to understand everything from everyone's point of view. I do not "hate" the other candidates, no no, I could possibly see anyone as the president, but everyone must have one as a favorite, correct?  Bc all of the large corporations and money makers in the industry, I just think Bernie has got some points about discussing big pharma, oil companies, banks and the global warming (!!!) and be serious about it. 

ps. love this haha:
"Agreed.
If I lived in Iran I would be dead.
I think Persian women are georgeous.
Therefore the freaks in robes and towels would have me beheaded or stoned."
master Chim in the Iran deal-pro .. thread.
My dad is persian, came here when he was around 17...oh yeah, persian women Are gorgeous, and dangerous  and, my mom is polish. Maybe why I have so much feeling for Sanders, his thoughts, background and his thinking.
But back to the shutting down on military..tough, I just think that it's sad that EU always rely on the US troops as a big daddy always being there and sacrificing own troops for shit happening here. I don't wanna go deep down in relations, allies and best buddies among the middle east countries and that but...
if ISIS could be vanished, and if the people wanting it and wants to help, fine.
If countries just could, mind their own biz, live in peace the world would be good. I'm always comparing Sweden and think of...Austria or Switzerland, beautiful countries with mountains, old architecture and peace and compare those to the rest of the world. You can find beauty in every dirt...
That's why I wouldn't hesitate to move to Canada? New Zeeland? Australia one lucky day perhaps...a lot warmer and seems to be friendly people


----------



## chimuelo

I'm heading to Communist  Sweden after rehearsals/pre production.
SRF 2016. They finally broke into the vault and found more cash for aging Rock Gods and (yawn-yawn) Blues Bands.
In my travels most Blues Bands translates to no rehearsals.
Always gigged France UK Germany back when an American in Munich was almost a Red Carpet affair.
Haven't traveled since Conservatives and Liberals ruined everything.
Buddies called me and said don't come in 2004.

Bernie is the man over here, and Trump has a big mouth that we admire, but on occasion reveals his shoot from the hip dangerous style of improv.
Bernie secretly wants the 80 billion a month the Fed gives to Banks on Wall Street, so all of his promises might be delivered, but he did bring to light the corruption of the DNC that keeps a fresh group of victims for Presidents waiting in the wings.
For some reason they think Pocahontas actually has a chance, but Americans want somebody to tear Washington down.
Billions are stolen and handed over to friends and campaign investors.
It's more out of hand than the Donald, so he is seen as the loudmouth to ruin the private cocaine party in the Master Bedroom.

I'm particularly interested in Sweden and shall seek the Amazonian women out for myself.
20 years ago women would beg you to take them to America and live the good life.
Now they get a disgusted look and ask you why would I want to travel to America and be a Liberal Slave?
Well, if you work hard and pay their multi million dollar professor salaries, your kids might have a chance at success...??
I dont know what to tell them other than you are free in Nevada. No Taxes.
I keep hearing about the Planet sized Asteroid circling the Solar System that is heading for Earth.
Without the Donald, that is the only other act of nature that could rid us of these multi millionaire lying Liberals.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Have you any idea of how 'medieval on your ass' the British Armed Forces can be?

This is why Cameron doesn't let them loose. He's the Grand Appeaser. You can't appease people when they're dead.

As for Bernie haha.......well.


----------



## chimuelo

The brilliant Euro-American intervention has now seen thousands dying in boats coming from the failed Libyan debacle.
This is exactly why people in the USA and EU want to remove these guilt ridden morons.
They create the problem, bypassing the legislative body, not even asking voters if they want another invasion knowing this Crap never works.
Then they don't even consider the problems their stupid solutions will cause.
Now anyone escaping the mass exodus created by these idiots is forced to live amongst refugees and other poverty victims imported from Honduras, where a democratic election chose their candidate, but was replaced by Liberals that somehow think they know better.
The former was killed a while back, but we tell these people to ride trains and let coyote molest your daughters then swim the Rio Grande and we'll give you everything for free.
Conservative or Liberal is of no consequence. They beg for power then ruin everything, then beg to let them fix things.
They are losers.
They could phuck up a steel ball.
These clowns must be replaced as fast as possible.

It's amazing to see the powerful EU and USA continue to fail at everything after they built such a beautiful world back in the 90s.

A bunch or phony ass human rights activists that consistently violate the very rights they claim to uphold.

Yuze guys in the UK and EU please get rid of your dirt bags and we promise to do the same....

Maybe then we can see a decade of economic prosperity instead of losers making millions.


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## Baron Greuner

Well there you have it D Man. I'm guessing you're really glad you decided to join this conversation. 

Please don't hesitate to look in anytime.


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## passsacaglia

Very well written master Chim, true, honest and understandable.
Whouah haha I just read "please don't hesitate to look in anymore.." haha! Must be tired. Well it has been raining all day here.

So, well, yeah, Now, we can just hope for the best. I'm just glad we all, guys here, meet at another intellectual level in music skills, ambition, passion and I think I'v said it before, really appreciate the feedback and help I'v got from the info in the music threads.
So yeah, we all will just hope for the best for all of us. To me it's either Bernie or Trump. Thank god I'v never stopped playing music and writing stuff, that's really makes me dreaming away to more beautiful places than this earth is at the moment. Becoming a member here at VI definitely helped me through this sometimes PITA schoolwork Iv had during those 2 semesters of late '15 and this spring. Definitely )
Cheers !

ps. this should be in a pm but at the moment I'm really lazy haha so...yeah, I really appreciate and admire all of your knowledge in music, daw's, tech builds (master Chim) and other things I'v learned through this forum, you guys are really great guys and I think I speak for everyone that..you inspire people, becoming better musicians and also learn new stuff. If I'v never read that thread where I heard about the mydigital SSD's Chim has and everything around that, I woudln't be as excited as I am to order all the goodies when the Black friday begins this year )


----------



## chimuelo

Well I could bring an extra MyDigitalSSD to Sweden and give one to you during the festivities.
I like to pretend I'm running for Governor and share with fellow musicians in our struggle of life.
PM me if you think you can see the show. 

To the Zen Master musicians amongst us.
Trickery is our weapon...
Modular synthesis....a way of life.


----------



## chimuelo

Meanwhile back at the ranch....

Trump cracks me up.
He wants to have a debate with Bernie.
Not even inviting Hillary as if she is inconsequential.
Demanding a fundraiser to give to women's issues since the ratings would be historical.

Poor wealthy Liberals just can't catch their breath.
Even the social media queen Pocahontas is swatted down like a bothersome insect....

This debate is just brilliant.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Bunch of godamn commies in Sweden.

Actually, I'm very much looking forward to driving right up through Sweden this summer. Finland and Denmark. Not so much Denmark because they're bunch of gidamngodamn commies too.

Should be good.


----------



## chimuelo

We need a couple of Denmarks a Finland and a Sweden in the USA.
States are where the freedoms and testing grounds take place.

Colorado is incredible.
I spent a night there with my youngest and went to Colfax Avenue.
Reminded me of Haight Ashbury back when real changes were being made.
The people walk around happy and high, and if that bothers folks too bad, keep on driving.

Sure they are making mistakes but that what happens when people demand something new.

Jeez when I went to Washington Park in Denver to buy weed when I was like 15, I never would have thought 40 years later I could get the bomb and buy it from a real Headshop legally....
Back then we worked all summer and smuggled Olympia and Coors back back to Anhieser-Bush territory, as those Hippie Beers were illegal.

Got 10 bucks for a 6 pack so folks from St.Louis could wear their Garmisch Boots and act all Rocky Mountain-ish...


----------



## NYC Composer

Hi D-wanted to get back to your post-my responses in red:



passsacaglia said:


> Heya guys, haha, I promise to read all the 40+ pages I missed til now.
> But, being a swede, having most of the things Bernie wants, I must say That guy...is the fuggin man.
> 
> I like Bernie too. At this point I wish that Hillary would drop out and let Bernie try to beat Trump. I am exhausted by herlack of attention to important appearance issues. I don't think she has bad intent, I just think she thinks she can get away with flouting the rules at her whim.
> 
> Many of my friends, almost everyone think Trump is...a total dumbaess, some just like him because they have a lot of money just like himself and think he's a funny guy.
> 
> I wonder, do they find his racist statements, his obvious misogyny, his derision of the handicapped and prisoners of war funny? Do they think the Sweden should also ban Muslims "until they figure out what the hell is going on"?
> About $hillary, I mean...do people actually believe in her and her corrupt politics, I think it's sad people don't read more and follow up what's really happening. It's like that, Bernie is the bullied guy that "can't win" but wins in the end. Really amazed of all the people coming to the rallys, voting, sharing the support, to me he is the only one who could save America once and for all. I don't know everything of course about how much things costs, insurance etc.
> But discussing a lot of costs...with friends in the states and cousins..I just feel that people pay so much and get less.
> Being average or under that, economically it can be and must be frustrating, and I can't imagine if someone gets sick..I mean really sick.
> 
> D-about this "bullying" you mention, I don't think you understand the American political system very well. Also, what is it about Hillary that's specifically corrupt, or are you speaking in generalities based on opinionated news items?
> 
> Pretty much, everything is "paid" here, or to a low cost.
> Insurance and home/life insurance is around 12-15 bucks a month and you get Everything. If you have stuff worth more than X million, you can have some Black vip insurance for superdupercost, or what Bernie would call it the top 1% insurance haha.
> Ok so, around 15 bucks a month for insurance.
> Medical cost: Seeing a doctor (GP), will cost you 36 dollars, seeing a specialist just add 20 bucks. From there, you can have surgery fixed (eye, stomach, anything), I think that you are guaranteed a surgery within 3 weeks, bam!
> Both in medical fees and at the pharmacy, if you reach a level of 132 USD, you get a "free card" and you can go as many times within that year to the doctor or a specialist. Ofc, this will be taken from the "paid" gov. money which is in the budget. So, more sick patients costs more for the society. This can be discussed on people "abusing" the system etc. And in the pharmacy there's this amount that you need to reach and the prices are lower and reduced for medicines, often patients with chronic diseases etc.
> 
> I would certainly like to see this in my country as well.
> 
> Food is normal for an EU country, under average or average. Visiting my brother in London we were chocked by the price of...let's say chicken and some foods. As always, the crappy foods cost less.
> 
> I'm not sure if you're from a large city, but this tends to be the case in large cosmopolitan cities.
> 
> 
> School is paid, you pay a minor fee for kindergarden because 99% of them are private companies.
> Pre school, middle school, high school / gymnasium, university, everything is paid. The only thing you must have if you want to become a doctor, lawyer, engineer, anything...is the grades, if you just work "a little harder", you will be fine. More and more universities are having the medicine program, law school etc because the need is increasing by all the retirements...
> 
> school is also free here up until university. The quality of it really depends on the area or the state. There are reasonably priced universities here and loans available, unfortunately even smaller loans can be difficult for low income folks. That should change.
> 
> 
> 
> I remember many people arguing which was the best country to live in...having friends all over the states, europe, asia, anywhere...coming from Sweden, so many people are agreeing on that, it's probably one of the best countries to live in. Some might agree on that people abusing the contribution our country offers, well sure, I agree on that.
> If you can stay home and get $2300 a month, compared to a job where you get $1800 a month ofc people are doing this and the regulations is very low and the system is not controlled very good. ...but as a whole, Superb country to live in.
> 
> America is a hard country to explain, but I have no real desire to live in Sweden. Personally, I live in a difficult city-very expensive, small apartments unless you're quite rich, etc. However, there is a boldness and a spirit here, a drive, an entrepreneurial spirit that perhaps makes it less mannered and cultured than Europe or the countries of the North, but also produces a unique vibrancy and an interesting and much imitated pop culture. It's a very large country with a lot of people and a lot of different cultures. It is contentious and grumbly but it also reaches for great things.
> 
> So, what is my point...I am just...so...confused on why so many people...don't vote for Bernie?!
> He would, seriously make it better for the whole country in whole, because it's right now very divided. Sure, it has 52 states but United States, as a whole. To us, it feels that it's the poor, some average and the top %. The "rich" doesn't care about the others because themselves are doing fine. Politically wise, Hillary's "bought" companies like Oil companies, Big Pharma (I'm in the pharma branch) etc, lobbyists just...caring about their companies and money and not about the global warming, medicine cost that are rising high because of the patents, people want to make money, everything that Bernie says about the NAFTA, Hillarys super PAC's and...a yeah, the list goes on.
> I just don't see why, more people and like..the whole US is not voting for him, because the world would totally be a better place to live in and as well the whole US. People WOULD like to work more, Would be able to go to college etc and get an education, the crimes Would indeed decrease and...yeah, the list goes on.
> It's...like kindergarden stuff, not listening to the "smart guy" because he's got glasses or, something like this.
> 
> Much of this country is still capitalism-based. Reaching for the economic brass ring is somewhat of a shared fiction here, the idea that if you work hard enough you can become fabulously wealthy and that this is something to desire. Socialism is still a dirty word to a significant portion of the populace. The feeling among them is that socialism robs people of incentive. Mr. Chimuelo's statements on the matter might be informative
> 
> Of course, I don't live in the US and I know that people have different backgrounds, but...being a democrat, I'd never vote for that woman, no, fuggin way, ever. She just want that title, get the money, be the first lady in history, make sure every big company is happy, invade more countries and have fake promises, a liar.
> I really hope that people get together, see what Bernie can do and actually achieve and save for the US and make it a better place to live in. If she wins, it would be even worse than with Obama, for true.
> Then, I'd def. pick Trump if Bernie is not being there... but, ahh...I really wish Bernie wins and that people connect, talk, believes in him, the honest Obi Wan wich pure passion and compassion for the people of the United States.
> 
> I'm still not quite sure the evil you see in Hillary. I guess I'll let you make your case more specifically as I believe you are talking generalities. I'm also curious what you find appealing about the odious Mr. Trump, and I'm curious if the majority of your country thinks he would be a better fit for the U.S. and the world than Ms. Clinton.
> 
> As to Bernie, I love him, but he has not explained how he would pay for the programs he would initiate, nor how he would convince Congress to pass legislation to implement them. That's a problem of practicality.
> 
> Learn from Europe, learn from Sweden, Believe in Bernie and...it will be just alright and US will blossom.
> That's my philosophy )
> 
> There are certainly things we can learn from Europe and Sweden, however Europe via the EU is a fractious mess and militarily, without us, you and Europe are left to the tender mercies of China and Russia (as I was trying to imply with my previous question about our military.) I suggest to you that that is not a scenario which should help you sleep better at night.
> /D-man


----------



## Soundhound

I've been away and missed a lot of the fun. Was on a short vacation, and then directly into the work fire. Though I'm sure I haven't been missed one iota, I thought I'd post my favorite piece of writing over the last month. I love Matt Taibbi, not just because he's so often on the money, but also because he snarls when he talks (and writes). Cheney snarls when he talks too, but Taibbi isn't a war criminal, so wins out on the front for me. 

If I already posted this in my haze, please forgive:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/r-i-p-gop-how-trump-is-killing-the-republican-party-20160518


----------



## NYC Composer

Hilarious, 'hound. Taibbi can flat out write. I've read most of his stuff, but unless it's essentially free, I can't cross my line of disgust with Grohling Stone, that purveyor of All That Is Not Rock n Roll, so thanks for the link.

Meanwhile, you sure take a lot of vacations. Where do you live, Sweden??


----------



## Soundhound

I know I never read it either, just got sent that piece by a journalist friend who's also a Taibbi fan. I live in Freelanceland and my wife works in film production, so when she's between movies we try and take advantage. Actually the last few years we haven't gotten away that much and the holidays have been spent visiting our ancient parents. But I really want to visit Sweden, Norway etc. Democratic socialism and tall blonde women, can't be all bad. Now if they could do something about the weather.


----------



## NYC Composer

well, good on you mate. Sounds like an interesting life.


----------



## Soundhound

We definitely can't afford it.


----------



## NYC Composer

Don't have to tell me- I've lived in Manhattan for 38 years.


----------



## chimuelo

Great read.
I expect to see another one about how Liberals being removed completes the natural order.
Its about a nations people seeing thier Goverment as the problem on all levels.
If you really want to blame the GOP establishment that is valid, but this really starts with executive privilige and Federal Agencies that have become public enemy #1.
The recent decree about trans gender privilige was the final straw for anyone turned off from Trumps arrogance.
Obama just ensured millions more on the fence are now with the Donald.
These elites are so over edeucated that they have become stupid.

Trump is gloating as if he already won the general.
His comments about Suzzanna Martinez were stupid, his remarks about a statue of himself are incredibly insulting to true public service.
But his arrogance pales in comparison to the IRS chief, Gruber, Rhodes, and Obamas multitude of decrees.
Everytime in this general when Warren Biden or Obama attack Trump his numbers grow.
It just reveals thier total disconnect with voters.
But by all means, read your speeches someone else wrote for you. That too is another reason people want them sent back to the faculty lounge.


----------



## passsacaglia

Heya guys, totally missed this.
Whoa...alright, I really learned from this, a lot. I think that this post was a real eye opener for me and I had to hear it, this, from your point of view L.
I realize that it's very difficult to know these things, how a person can feel and think when you are actually living there.
And it's easy just to, make an assumption of how the situation is.
Now I really understand why this election is so...um, tough.
Well, you really got me thinking now.
I will just say, thank you all for bringing up good points, I guess I needed to hear from you how different people think of what is actually happening in the states atm.
So, I think I will leave it there, and saying that you brought up good points which I really have learned new things from. I guess that was the reason I made a comment on this thread. 
I will let you have your opinions and I really wish the best of luck for All of you and hope that the lucky one who gets elected will bring something good with him/her.

(yes, mostly articles online from the big magazines etc and not some independent magazines/non profit ones. Oh and no ofc not, we do not like when he made fun of that, some statements and acts he does just make him look like a fool  but, what can be compared to bernie is that, he really wants to Do something, radically and make things going because he is sick n tired of Some things and want US to be a better place to live in. But...to me or to anyone, it's tough to see what some of the problems are, every situation can be unique for that person and this is normal ofc, if you live in city X and with This economy you might have these "problems", and for another one it can be very different. Why I understand people are voting for Trump, Bernie and Clinton. Just normal. I just, hope it will be better for everyone in the end. And yes, I'm totally with you in the military thing, ofc it's like that.)
Take care you all, let's hope for the best. I will stay updated on what this thread brings up and listen and learn. 
Thanks for all valuable info, comments and opinions from all of you.


----------



## passsacaglia

chimuelo said:


> Well I could bring an extra MyDigitalSSD to Sweden and give one to you during the festivities.
> I like to pretend I'm running for Governor and share with fellow musicians in our struggle of life.
> PM me if you think you can see the show.
> 
> To the Zen Master musicians amongst us.
> Trickery is our weapon...
> Modular synthesis....a way of life.


Haha! Good one mate, cheers! I will! 
For that, how many swedish blondes would you like to have served? Jk, thanks for all the tips regarding the SSD's etc and the 4790k processor. 
Your build is btw really impressive!


----------



## NYC Composer

passsacaglia said:


> Heya guys, totally missed this.
> Whoa...alright, I really learned from this, a lot. I think that this post was a real eye opener for me and I had to hear it, this, from your point of view L.
> I realize that it's very difficult to know these things, how a person can feel and think when you are actually living there.
> And it's easy just to, make an assumption of how the situation is.
> Now I really understand why this election is so...um, tough.
> Well, you really got me thinking now.
> I will just say, thank you all for bringing up good points, I guess I needed to hear from you how different people think of what is actually happening in the states atm.
> So, I think I will leave it there, and saying that you brought up good points which I really have learned new things from. I guess that was the reason I made a comment on this thread.
> I will let you have your opinions and I really wish the best of luck for All of you and hope that the lucky one who gets elected will bring something good with him/her.
> 
> (yes, mostly articles online from the big magazines etc and not some independent magazines/non profit ones. Oh and no ofc not, we do not like when he made fun of that, some statements and acts he does just make him look like a fool  but, what can be compared to bernie is that, he really wants to Do something, radically and make things going because he is sick n tired of Some things and want US to be a better place to live in. But...to me or to anyone, it's tough to see what some of the problems are, every situation can be unique for that person and this is normal ofc, if you live in city X and with This economy you might have these "problems", and for another one it can be very different. Why I understand people are voting for Trump, Bernie and Clinton. Just normal. I just, hope it will be better for everyone in the end. And yes, I'm totally with you in the military thing, ofc it's like that.)
> Take care you all, let's hope for the best. I will stay updated on what this thread brings up and listen and learn.
> Thanks for all valuable info, comments and opinions from all of you.


Check in any time, D. Don't let the Baron scare you- his bark is worse than his....well, maybe not, but don't be deterred!


----------



## passsacaglia

NYC Composer said:


> Check in any time, D. Don't let the Baron scare you- his bark is worse than his....well, maybe not, but don't be deterred!


Haha! Thanks. If you ever cross the european border and headin' Stockholm, don't hesitate to check in. There's always good music, red wine and bubbles for good people that are visiting)


----------



## chimuelo

passsacaglia said:


> Haha! Good one mate, cheers! I will!
> For that, how many swedish blondes would you like to have served? Jk, thanks for all the tips regarding the SSD's etc and the 4790k processor.
> Your build is btw really impressive!



Thanks.
After 1000s of dollars and thorough testing I concluded that processors have not scaled like SSDs or iGPUs.

i7 4790k and Z97 are the best real time combo I have had.
Xeon and X99 HEDT CPUs benchmark better and stream slightly more from Quad Channel RAM nothing beats a 4.45ghz x quad core with multithreading and turbo disabled.
Like it so much out of all the parts left over I built 3 x fast Z97s with Windows 7 Pro pre Windows 7 SP.


----------



## Soundhound

At the end Taibbi says he thinks the same is in the offing for the Democrats. 

But Jimmy, 'this really starts with executive privilege'? 'Decree on transgender privilege'? What a crock! Obama has made fewer executive decrees than any republican president. Are you now writing for Drudge? Reince wasn't coming up with enough cash?!? Trump plays to people's bigotry and you're saying it's warranted? Um... huh?



chimuelo said:


> Great read.
> I expect to see another one about how Liberals being removed completes the natural order.
> Its about a nations people seeing thier Goverment as the problem on all levels.
> If you really want to blame the GOP establishment that is valid, but this really starts with executive privilige and Federal Agencies that have become public enemy #1.
> The recent decree about trans gender privilige was the final straw for anyone turned off from Trumps arrogance.
> Obama just ensured millions more on the fence are now with the Donald.
> These elites are so over edeucated that they have become stupid.
> 
> Trump is gloating as if he already won the general.
> His comments about Suzzanna Martinez were stupid, his remarks about a statue of himself are incredibly insulting to true public service.
> But his arrogance pales in comparison to the IRS chief, Gruber, Rhodes, and Obamas multitude of decrees.
> Everytime in this general when Warren Biden or Obama attack Trump his numbers grow.
> It just reveals thier total disconnect with voters.
> But by all means, read your speeches someone else wrote for you. That too is another reason people want them sent back to the faculty lounge.


----------



## chimuelo

Trannies are all over Vegas. I was employed by more than one, they have no problems in restrooms, never have and to be honest some of these trannies are bad ass Mui Thai practicioners.
Its the fact that some King in la la land upset the balance the people have already settled long ago.

For every stupid move these guys make its one less Liberal complicating our lives that I have to worry about this Fall.
I really want 6 or 7 more decrees.
That should do it.

Too bad Liberals let thier constituents murder each other and prefer to phuck with us instead of thier ghettos they created.


----------



## Soundhound

Of for chrissake, Jimmy. Reince and Coulter are on conference call on line one, htey want to talk about a Trump speechwriting gig for you. Shall I put them through or has Ken Starr not left yet?


----------



## chimuelo

Screw those assholes too.

Americans want the wealthy whites your bow to removed, just like the freak show GOP we watched defeated and dismantled.

The prism of your bias sees Liberal and Conservative.
Neither are the majority, and never will be.
Independents are always where these fake parties pander to in the middle when voting day comes.
So snap out of it and open your eyes man.


----------



## Soundhound

disagree. liberalism and progressivism are good things. your calling cop orate democrats liberals shows your bias. will Hillary wind up being a progressive president? probably not. but there's no one else to vote for. Bernirs not gonna make it, and trump would be a disaster. Hillary Clinton was the one who tried to lush through single payer healthcare 20 years ago.


----------



## chimuelo

Your leader was pre selected, no need to justify your position.
But she wont win unless the billionaires pay Trump to LOSE.
People are terrified of change.
They need not worry. Their government subsidies will still be there.
Its all about the economy.
Nobody cares about progressive shitters with varying types of gender or any of this silly fake progressive crap.
You want really progressives..?
Move to Nevada.
No taxes.
Corporations pay all public union salaries and pensions.
Unions rule but kept in check with right to work laws.
Everything Liberals and Conservatives claim they are trying to pass but cant have been laws in Nevada for decades.

Nevada has school choice where poor kids who want to leave Liberal plantations only need the aptitude and it becomes reality.
Do your failed indoctrination centers run by wealthy union bosses and liberal politicians even allow competition ...?
Real progressive my ass.


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't particularly think that Hillary is "corrupt" in the sense that she's stealing money from the Clinton Foundation to line her pockets. I think selling herself as a speaker after holding public office is no different than thousands of other people who did public service at a high level , ditto writing a book. Just look a the media where ex gov people are shilling their books and getting paid as pundits.

However, I think she should have let Bill do his Foundation and stayed far away from it, or as far as possible. This is the woman who would be President-the appearance of impropriety makes it that much harder for her to achieve office and frankly, it should. I think the email thing indicates an arrogance that truly disturbs me, as do certain statements from her book. A lot of the other conspiracy stuff strikes me as conjecture and a lot of nonsense, but it adds to the noise.

More importantly, I honestly and truly believe that Donald Trump, as a result of temperament, inexperience, casual bigotry, incuriousity, and a preening, adolescent and clownish approach to self admiration, is completely unfit to be President.

At this point I wish Hillary would step aside and let Bernie carry the Progressive torch, not that I see it happening. Corporate interests will steer this country no matter what, but I believe they'd get the greatest amount of resistance from Bernie.

Hillary vs Trump, no question I'll vote for Hillary and hope for the best. The Supreme Court is at stake here, possibly for many years.


----------



## Soundhound

it's always the same argument jimmy, and always assuming that whoever you're talking to has bought into the system. you never hear when someone says they don't buy it, it doesn't fit your sheep to the slaughter manifesto. I'm not saying you're not right, that the game is rigged and it's all bought and paid for. what I am saying is it's not as simple as you like to play it. there have been genuine progressive forces in American politics, not so much since Reaganism purchased the republican, and then the Democratic Party. but it's out there and should be supported. it's way more complex than you like to paint it. and imagining that Donald trump would do anything about it is foolish on a trumpian (sorry can't think of anyone dumber) scale.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy's at the anarchist stage. Blow shit up and see what happens, can't get any worse.


----------



## Soundhound

I get it. but remember W? think of how stupid and incompetent he was. now imagine Donald trump as president. W to the Nth power. who's gonna be trump's Cheney? good god.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, my many screeds against DJT are well documented, even on this page!


----------



## Soundhound

yah, wasn't trying to convince you for sure.


----------



## chimuelo

I think Sean Hannity would be a great Vice President...


----------



## chimuelo

State Department John Bolton...


----------



## chimuelo

Health and Human Services Condoleeza Rice...


----------



## chimuelo

Enviromental Protection Agency Sarah Palin....


----------



## chimuelo

CIA would be shared with MI6 and Alex Jones....


----------



## chimuelo

Netanyahu as the Ambassador to Saudi Arabia...


----------



## chimuelo

Ted Cruz Ambassador to Cuba...


----------



## chimuelo

Mitt Romney Ambassador to Venezuela.....


----------



## Soundhound

And the UN replaced by SMERSH.


----------



## NYC Composer

Tasmanian Devil to Australia......Yogi Bear to Russia....


----------



## Baron Greuner

Johnny Depp could be involved in say, human relations, or how to make an asshole if yourself with a 14 year old gold digger.


----------



## NYC Composer

Johnny Depp was involved with a 14 year old gold digger?? I'm so confused.

Btw my Baron, all I'm hearing on U.S. traditional (television) media is how horrible a Brexit would be, how it would ruin the world, G7, blah blah blah. As you've predicted.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Johnny Depp is an idiot, albeit a very good actor.

Can't understand why the USA are putting that out. They basically hate the EU with a vengeance in the corridors of power over there.

But the nay Sayers need not worry. There will be no Brexit. I will be looking after Gunther for ever and Hillary will be president. Just stay calm and trust the word of King John and his Barons. Uhhhh?


----------



## NYC Composer

I am so chill I frost the sun.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Heh! I'm in a bit of irritable mood today Larry. Don't worry. I have this track I can't finish and I'm so close to finishing the project I don't want to suddenly rush stuff out that is poor and just make up the numbers


----------



## chimuelo

You better let me do any Hammond tracks unless you prefer that white sounding plug in stuff.
Also got money on Atletico and Koke in Milan.
3 to 1 long shot.
I think UK stays in the Euro after taking a 200,000,000 Barclays kick back from the hidden lady with marriage/merger rights.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> You better let me do any Hammond tracks unless you prefer that white sounding plug in stuff.
> Also got money on Atletico and Koke in Milan.
> 3 to 1 long shot.
> I think UK stays in the Euro after taking a 200,000,000 Barclays kick back from the hidden lady with marriage/merger rights.



They never ask me to do Hammond tracks. I have one I think out there and it hasn't ever been licensed yet. Are you trying to tell me something.


----------



## chimuelo

Did a big Bowie/Prince tribute with various groups.
I did a gospel version of Purple Rain with a 60 piece chior that was fabulous.
2 x guys with real Hammonds and 147s were in other bands.XK3 and 1 B3.
Then a few groups with laptop VB3 guys and a EVB3 into a Studio 12 Leslie.

I killed the VB3 guys and the Suzuki guys were punished severely.Logic guy sounded great as he used Filter sweeps into his Leslie.

HX-3 can be tweaked to emulate so many models.
Its Leslie emulation in stereo is awesome. Super doppler.

I always sneered at these Leslie emulations since they moved no air.
Sounded like a dual phaser, not even bi directional.

I control ramp speeds for baffle and horn, direction, spread and volume.
Poor old rocker with the B3 147 has since bought one.
Calls me every week for CC tips and PC Editor paging.
Poor dude makes house payments on his 2 cycle B3.
Now hes trying to sell it.
HX-3 has rattled the high end furniture markets.


----------



## NYC Composer

Go Libertarians!! The whackadoodle party is my new fave.


----------



## chimuelo

I agree.
Selling foreign policy needs to kept intact. Look how successful it's been.


----------



## NYC Composer

Gary Johnson don' wanna sell no foreign policy- he's a Libertrarian. He don't want ANY foreign policy.


----------



## chimuelo

He'll get Bernies dreamers and the Never Trump Romney bitches.

But Russia will continue developing Tsunami bombs to take out California and their newest Satan 2 bomb thanks to American Uranium Hillary sold to Putin's investors.

But jeez the 100s of millions given to save puppies kittens and children was worth the successful reset.

Who ever promises the most free stuff wins in American elections.
Unless Putin invades the Baltics during liberal fundraising this summer.
Libya was such a successful model it might be repeated.
Puppies and Kittens will cause a backlash of anger
Best if Lithuanian animal shelters are spared.


----------



## passsacaglia

I'm back. Nah but, just wanted to drop by once again due to the warm welcome by all of you.
Actually read all 46 pages yesterday and this morning. Whouh. Just wanna chim in,

So, I can say that I actually understand everyones' opinions til 100%. Was little unsure sometimes with Larrz (you'll have a little swedish touch on your nick if that's cool ^^) wether who of the dems candidate might be the one...
But, with Donny T, we're having and had a similar situation here with the "swedish democrates" and Sweden.
Really bad background and history, the party was formed from a 100% nazi party in the 90's, arranged book burnings, parties in old german costumes etc, crazy sheat. And now they're wearing business suits, acting "a little bit" more properly than 20 years ago. Sweden also got affected by the wave of fleeing people from Syria etc.
There were a lot of drama in 2014-15 etc and...yeah, also by too many people (mostly beggars) from Romania is begging outside almost every supermarket, and some of the swedish population are sick of this and takin in too many people when we can't afford it and not afford good housing etc. So..
In that case, I really understand why Trump is winning in the US. With Obama and what has happened the last years, ofc people are tired of everything and they just vote for Trump, or Bernie.

So, "loved" everything I read and it has been an interesting journey, and it will be. To me, I really hope Bernie wins somehow, next Donny, but Hillary to me will be just as another Obama..that's what I'm guessing now.
And haha no, Baron's barks are totally cool 
So, as for a Swede, I totally get it. I think every country has its "shit" to deal with and there will always be people on all sides. To me, it was really informative reading all this to get an even better understanding from where the opinions come from.
Take care guys, talk soon! Appreciate your time. Stockholm loves ya!
/Daveman
and yeah J-dawg, pm on its way soon, have a nice sleep all of u!


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> Who ever promises the most free stuff wins in American elections.



Any election tbh.


----------



## Baron Greuner

You all 46 pages?!?!?!

Uhh Larry, this boy needs help!


----------



## chimuelo

Hillary will betray her vow to Obama as soon as he blocks the FBI Criminal investigation.
Once she knocks out Bernie she will call in for foreign investors which havent donated to the laundering facility yet.....sorry........I meant the foundation.

I can see her now telling Israel and Saudi Arabia Irans big lie of a deal will get snuffed but shell need about 400,000,000 for mosquito nets first.


----------



## passsacaglia

Baron Greuner said:


> You all 46 pages?!?!?!
> 
> Uhh Larry, this boy needs help!


Haha, nahh just interested on your thoughts. This election and fight between Bernie and Shillary has haha...has taken a lot of time from my school, but rather in a good way  I can't deny it, Donnyboy is really an entertainer sometimes. 
Hope the best for ya, and y'all are very welcome dropping by any day guys. We all love Stockholm when it get's sunny and warm, seeing that Venice/Miami beach feeling on all the hot blondes n brunettes over here. Wawawewa!
(and yes, that's a yes of being a good wingman)


----------



## Baron Greuner

I was watching this huge phalanx of bikers in the USA on the news yesterday. Cant remember which channel, but it doesn't matter because they're all filthy scum these days.

They asked some of these guys who they would support (I think a lot of them were ex military vets and the sort of age that are the only ones that can afford to buy these bikes).....anyway! They all supported Trump. I was a bit shocked by that. 
They asked one of them what he thought of Hillary. He said he thought she was 'dirty trash and should be in jail'. But with an American drawl. Americans are the only people on the planet that can drawl. So he really hung out the words trash and jail. So it was 'she is dirty trrrraaaaaaasshhhhhh and should be in jjjjjjaaaaaaaaiiiilll.

The other guy they asked wasn't a biker. He was a (hang on a second, I've always wanted to say this after religiously watching Longmire) ....native American.

He very strongly said he would support Hillary and just about all native Americans will too. I thought to myself, well of course they will. She's going to be the first President to look like a WigWam from 100 paces. 

Tell me I'm not justified in thinking that!


----------



## chimuelo

Native Instruments is being sued by Liberal whites speaking for "their" minorities as the Name is offensive.

Especially developers that make Indian Flutes.
They have also offended the Indians of Asia (the dotted kind, not Tommahawks) for making crappy Snake Charmer Reeds that are not authentic as whites were playing the instruments.

So look for prices of types of instruments to rise as offended Liberals cause Kontakt to raise prices to cover their racist software lawsuits.

Native Americans were promised more Casinos by Hillary as she addressed tribal leaders with the single feather squaw/full quiver of arrows.
Senator Warren will represent her tribe of blond haired blue eyed Indians in Oklahoma as a payback to genocidal whites that died hundreds of years ago.

Basically every victim and gender type, with racial claims will get an additional 10% of other races checks.

All history books will be corrected to show Colmbus was a Hispanic racist who never discovered America.


----------



## Baron Greuner

When I was at a boarding school, all the House names were Hawkins, Raleigh, Drake and Grenville.

Fantastic when you think all these guys were slave traders. Naturally I was in the worst offenders House as it turned out.

They even named a city in Carolina after one of them. My God! Will Hillary want that changed do you think?


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey , we may not be smart, but we're entertaIning.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yanno Jimmy, all this anti being PC shit falls apart unless white people are going to stand up. Like, if they're walking down an urban street alone, see a group of black youth on the other side of the street and are comfortable calling out "hey, how y'all n-----s doin'? There's non PC for your ass. Or a black man yelling "how you crackers doing this evening" to a bunch a white youth.


----------



## chimuelo

The only white people walking around Liberal Ghettos are looking to score a 40 and would already be cool with the brothas since they're redistributing wealth.

When an old school brotha says how you crackers doing in a conservative neighborhood they figure he's delivering some dope or getting some trim, so he's cool.

But in middle class neighborhoods where all races live together this is known as bonding and how folks who work for a living communicate.

Don't expect you rich white Liberals to understand this.


----------



## NYC Composer

We'all rich white liberals think y'all brown racists is crazyinsane. 
However, you're forever talking about PC. There's your PC. If you really don'ty believe in PC, go around talking shit to everyone.


----------



## chimuelo

Larry you doing Tippers or something..?


----------



## NYC Composer

WTF are tippers?


----------



## Soundhound

The anti Hillary sentiment is first and foremost, and always, without exception, based in sexism. Just as the irrational hate for Obama is so powerfully fueled by racism. It's been the right wing's strategy for decades. And it's disgusting. I'm not very pc, but when someone insults Hillary Clinton by making uncreative, deeply unfunny jokes (not to beat a dead horse, but there are no good right wing comedians for a reason, comedy requires insight and intelligence) about how they feel she's not attractive, they might as well put a sign around their neck saying the only way they have ever gotten laid is to pay for it. 

Here's a decently written related piece:

http://inthesetimes.com/article/18942/why-progressives-should-support-hillary-clinton


----------



## NYC Composer

I believe, in general, PC=civility. Of course, like everything it can go too far and get crazy, but as life goes, I generally feel it's best practice.


----------



## Soundhound

Yup.


----------



## Baron Greuner

How can anyone be sexist about a WigWam?


----------



## NYC Composer

I'd rather be a wigwam than walk around wearing a burnished orange muskrat on my pate.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I'm not sure you would if you were a member of the female species Larry. She needs that money from Goldman Sachs just have specially made clothes.
Think of all the doors in the White House. They'll all have to be altered. Think of the tax dollars! They'll be like the doors in Forbidden Planet.

*OMG!! It's Hillary. Here she comes now!!!

*


----------



## NYC Composer

Perhaps you've noticed that DJT is carrying a bit of extra poundage? I wouldn't put it past him to be wearing a girdle.

I worry that the thing on his head will frighten small children. "Mommy, mommy, if it's hair, why doesn't it move in the breeze?? I'm afraid of the dead thing on that man's head :::whimper:::"


----------



## Baron Greuner

Have you ever noticed how just about every female presenter on TV today, regardless of country, has hair that wouldn't actually move even from a nuclear blast Larry?


----------



## NYC Composer

I have! Smart Donald, fanning out his strands and then lacquering them into submission, just like a female presenter! The man uses an integrated approach to media dominance.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hair lacquer is an important ingredient in winning elections. On that I think we're agreed.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey, speaking of the wimmens, my friend Andrej may start doing little ongoing bits on the shapely Melania. There's been much call for it, as he's the only Slovenian journalist any of us know here in New Yawk. Subscribe to his (free) newsletter at www.yondernews.com!


----------



## chimuelo

I read it all the time.
I want lingerie shots like Vanna did for Playboy.
When I was a young kid we fought at the newstand to look at her.
She made my balls smoke.


----------



## NYC Composer

Can't guarantee those. It's a family newsletter, you know.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Too much detail! Too much detail!


----------



## chimuelo

Tippers are shots of aged Scotch.

Today's news is typical of dishonest American media pretending there's only 2 views.
The false narratives of fake liberalism and conservative thought.

We see Liberals talking softly with eyes closed as they communicate with the Silverback victim like Palm Readers.
Crocodile Dundee wannabes saying kill the son of a bitch in God's name.

Then the unrepresented middle class folks who work for a living saying why in the Fuck is such a beautiful animal caged up on the first place.

Such is life in namby pamby land.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> The anti Hillary sentiment is first and foremost, and always, without exception, based in sexism.



Explain the right-wing's love for Carly Fiorina, Phyllis Sclafly, Condi Rice, Michele Malkin, Margaret Thatcher, etc.

You notice a common thread? Conservatism.

What does that tell you about the female politicians we don't like? Not conservative.



Soundhound said:


> Just as the irrational hate for Obama is so powerfully fueled by racism.



Explain the right-wing's love of Clarence Thomas, JJ Watts, Condi Rice, Alan Keys, Ben Carson, etc?

You notice a common thread? Conservatism.
What does that tell you about the male politicians we don't like? Not conservative.


----------



## Soundhound

Michael you are as constant and reliable as the sun. You can always be counted on to miss the point being discussed, deeply and entirely. To cherry pick the data to support the point you have come to beforehand. To misunderstand the very idea of what science and analysis is. To always choose the exceptions which prove the rule. You are a shining example of the modern Republican party's dream voter. 

When you read the New York Times every day for a month, we can talk. Until then, we shouldn't because you're not working with the facts as they are, but only with the tiny slips of information you choose to believe that confirm your biases.


----------



## chimuelo

Therein lies the problem.

Candidates are selected for the Sheep.
They are convinced that they have had a say in the process when they really dont.

They are also convinced theres only Liberal and Conservative views.
This hoax is backed by multi billion dollar media corporations that profit from ads for further convincing the Sheep theres just 2 viewpoints.

Truth is Liberals are maybe 20% Conservatives possibly 25%.
Total votes in 2014 were only 1/3 of the population and many of them are independents.

Theres Liberal and Conservative media, education systems, the fake belief systems are touted as real.

If this were true, why do these dishonest lying bastards have to return to the center to win the election?

This massive cash machine benefits those who participate in the sales of legislation, nobody else.

Reading ANY Liberal or Conservative talking points is a waste of time and life.
Nothing will ever get done unless you are an investor so to continue believing in Santa Claus is for smart children and indoctrinated Sheep incapable of free thinking.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy, I know you think it's that simple. I don't think it's that simple, I think it's way more complicated.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> Michael you are as constant and reliable as the sun. You can always be counted on to miss the point being discussed, deeply and entirely. To cherry pick the data to support the point you have come to beforehand. To misunderstand the very idea of what science and analysis is. To always choose the exceptions which prove the rule. You are a shining example of the modern Republican party's dream voter.


I gave you several examples of women and African Americans that Conservatives love. And you say they are "the exceptions".
That doesn't even make sense. If conservatives hated women and African Americans as you state, why would there be exceptions? What would make these people exceptions?
Because they are conservative?
If that's the reason you give, you are proving my point that conservatives don't dislike candidates because of their race or gender but because of their political ideologies.
Almost every stance Hillary and Obama support are in opposition to conservative stances, but somehow you conclude we don't like them because of their race and gender.
Unbelievable. It's like talking to a wall. It really is.


Soundhound said:


> When you read the New York Times every day for a month, we can talk. Until then, we shouldn't because you're not working with the facts as they are, but only with the tiny slips of information you choose to believe that confirm your biases.


You always accuse me of being biased, and then turn around and urge me to read the NYT, one of the most notoriously liberally-biased publications on the planet.
That is so freaking rich.
You are so convinced that you are intellectually superior to me, and yet you don't even see the irony in that.


----------



## Soundhound

Michael, your grasp of even the most simple logic is nonexistent. All you know is what crazy right wing propaganda tells you to know. it's your kind of ignorance that has allowed the The Republicans to very nearly destroy this country. you think the New York Times is a left-wing rag, you are profoundly ignorant and deeply biased. I can't help you. 




Michael K. Bain said:


> I gave you several examples of women and African Americans that Conservatives love. And you say they are "the exceptions".
> That doesn't even make sense. If conservatives hated women and African Americans as you state, why would there be exceptions? What would make these people exceptions?
> Because they are conservative?
> If that's the reason you give, you are proving my point that conservatives don't dislike candidates because of their race or gender but because of their political ideologies.
> Almost every stance Hillary and Obama support are in opposition to conservative stances, but somehow you conclude we don't like them because of their race and gender.
> Unbelievable. It's like talking to a wall. It really is.
> 
> You always accuse me of being biased, and then turn around and urge me to read the NYT, one of the most notoriously liberally-biased publications on the planet.
> That is so freaking rich.
> You are so convinced that you are intellectually superior to me, and yet you don't even see the irony in that.[/QUOTE


----------



## chimuelo

What can I possibly add?

You guys make my argument for me.
Liberals and Conservatives are liars and losers.

Carry On.


----------



## Soundhound

Cogent and inciseful, Jimmy. Profound stuff. "You guys are liars and losers", sounds very much like a current tiny handed presidential candidate.



chimuelo said:


> What can I possibly add?
> 
> You guys make my argument for me.
> Liberals and Conservatives are liars and losers.
> 
> Carry On.


----------



## NYC Composer

'Hound, I'm with Michael here, and since he and I disagree about 85% of stuff, for me it's more a matter of taking people seriously if they display a willingness to debate with their acrimony under control. Michael believes things I profoundly disagree with, but I have no evidence that would indicate to me that he's unintelligent or crazy. For example, to say the NYT is the objective standard is clearly wrong. It is a liberally biased publication that strives for good journalism, but there is no question that it's liberally biased.

Michael, I don't believe conservatives hate women. I believe they mostly believe in "traditional" roles for women, homemakers, raisers of children, submissive to their husbands, second place in roles of power traditionally assigned to men. The examples are too numerous to get into here, but if you challenge this thought I'd be happy to oblige. My wife hit the glass ceiling in the 90s. I got to watch.

The Clarence Thomas's of the world, the Ben Carsons, strike me as examples of some sort of Stockholm syndrome-two men who would not have achieved the positions they achieved in life without much social program bolstering; both of whom would like to close, or at least limit the opening of the doors that they were helped through. Those sort of examples put liberals into cognitive dissonance.


----------



## Soundhound

I hear you, but I have to disagree with some of that. Throughout all our adult lives, the Times has been the paper of record. I don't think it has a liberal bias (you want liberal bias? read The Nation) but everyone will have their own take on the (greatly varied) points of view the Times puts forward. The generation that has been brought up on Reagan era business-first, Trumpian propaganda has been taught to believe that the Times has a profoundly liberal bias. It's part and parcel of the right wing's attempt to rewrite history, to cherry pick information, and disinformation, that supports it's agenda. 

It is impossible to have an adult, intelligent, informed conversation with someone who thinks the New York Times is a left wing rag. It's entirely fruitless. For me anyway, I can't do it. Reading widely and deeply is great, but unless there is agreement on some basic facts (the world is not flat, climate change is real, science is not a belief system, the Knicks need new ownership) there's no way to have a real discussion.

Michael's positions are those taken by someone who isn't informed. It leads one to make an argument countering the idea that anti Obama sentiment is not driven by racism by pointing out that there are some conservative black people. That is the same 'I have black friends argument' which has been made by southern racists for decades. 

Michael, you and I should not have discussions here because I don't think you're in possession of anything resembling the facts. I don't respect your point of view, because I don't think it's well considered.


----------



## NYC Composer

Philosophically, I will continue to hope that people of extremely disparate views will try their very best to speak to each other without rancor and try to find areas of agreement. My friend Jimmy the un-admitted conservative continues to insist the country is divided into two manipulated teams constantly talking their books. I refuse to be categorized in such a manner and will continue to seek comity from within civil debate.


----------



## Soundhound

You are a better man than I.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm not saying that, nor did I mean to imply it. I'm just talking my personal agenda, like we all do.


----------



## Soundhound

Sorry I didn't mean that to sound the way it did! i meant it unsarcastically. I absolutely appreciate what you're saying and I wish I had your patience, but I don't.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> 'Hound, I'm with Michael here, and since he and I disagree about 85% of stuff, for me it's more a matter of taking people seriously if they display a willingness to debate with their acrimony under control. Michael believes things I profoundly disagree with, but I have no evidence that would indicate to me that he's unintelligent or crazy. For example, to say the NYT is the objective standard is clearly wrong. It is a liberally biased publication that strives for good journalism, but there is no question that it's liberally biased.



Thank you very much for the defense.



NYC Composer said:


> 'Michael, I don't believe conservatives hate women. I believe they mostly believe in "traditional" roles for women, homemakers, raisers of children, submissive to their husbands, second place in roles of power traditionally assigned to men. The examples are too numerous to get into here, but if you challenge this thought I'd be happy to oblige.



While I don't challenge that completely, I do think that while most conservatives do see raising children as a very important job, I also think that most educated conservative men see women as perfectly capable of competing in the work force. Many of these wish their wives didn't have to work - not because they wish to control them, but because they believe it's very important for parents to raise their children on their own if at all possible. Of course, I know that some are misogynist, but I'm talking by and large here.

Having said all this, do you think, as Soundhound does, that conservatives oppose Hillary because she's a woman, or, as I think, because of her views which are so opposite of their own?


----------



## chimuelo

Of course I am Conservative.
I have to be responsible for others
Raising a family trying to save money for rainy day or college funds makes one Conservative.

These clowns in DC are not Conservative.
They blew a surplus handed to them, and started the train of deficit spending which still hasnt delivered the infrastructure promised.

Admittedly I am Conservative but do not support these douche bags in DC.
I despise the way they use faith to propel themselves making a religious belief into a commercial product.

The only thing I support that is remotely "Conservative" is the NRA.

Anti Liberal must mean I am a Conservative, I get that.
But that reasoning supports my argument that 45% of the people are convinced theres only Left and Right.
Us against them.
Never served in the armed forces but belong to the working middle class.
We are a team. We decide who goes to Washington.

These fake Conservatives and Liberals lie thier asses off 2 months before an election appeasing the majority...us.

To me theres the Syndicate (Federal Reserve)
2 Crime Families that represent themselves.
They are onvthe same team, and will make sure establishment lawyers/politicians remain in power.

The way they use media and government to indoctrinate people and make groups benefits them.
The middle class was the economic powerhouse of the world.
The last 18 years of these 2 crime families proves one thing.
They cant control the middle class.
Better to decimate it.
Make it reliant on studentbloans by taking choice away, distorting the markets, freezing wages.

We lose more freedom every year.
To me these crime familues are wealthy errand boys.
Multi millionaires who forget they came from the middle class.


----------



## NYC Composer

@ Hound-You lived in the city, do I remember? I dunno-my Dad was from the Bronx and my mom from Brooklyn, but I grew up
up in Binhamton, which was more like Ohio than NYC. I'm glad to have seen both sides, but since I'm not fabulously wealthy, I think my 38 years in a big crowded city has taught me some patience.


----------



## NYC Composer

@michael- I believe that it's dumb to say "all conservatives believe.... "

What I do think is that a lot of deeply religious people, including evangelical Christians, traditional Muslims and ultra Orthodox/Hasidic Jews see women as having a gender-based role that doesn't necessarily equate with the holding of great power. Not just religious and not just conservative either- I mean, how do you explain that though 50 or so % of the country is female, no female President? We're well behind a number of third world countries in that regard.

Sometimes it probably looks like I equivocate-I don't think things are always 100% one thing or another. I think the conservative BASE might have been perfectly happy with Carly Fiorina. I think she would have been crushed in the general because people find her unpleasant, but in terms of her stated positions? I think her conservative orthodoxy was obvious. Base aside though, she never really got within sniffing distance- what do you make of that?

As to Hillary: I suspect when it comes down to it Michael, you're a one issue guy. Prove me wrong- could you ever vote for a pro choice candidate?


----------



## NYC Composer

@Chim- that is the first time I've EVER heard you say the words: I'm a conservative." I know that doesn't completely define you nor did I ever suggest it did.

Btw- this is going to startle you, but there are liberals who work and raise children. Pinkie swear


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah but those are former middle class folks forced into Liberal poverty where thier offspring is targetted for indoctrination.
Moms too busy working.
Have the Federal teachers spend more time with the kids more than mom.
Dont prepare them with work skills but big student loans pursuing a worthless degree.
Graduate with no skills to work, live with mom until your 35.
So you see, Liberalism creates slaves, it Liberates nobody.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy you're pro NRA? Say it ain't so. I agree this generation of conservatives are nothing of the sort. They are radical ideologues. 

Liberal poverty. Oy. Your oversimplification of everything, while skewing everything toward a neo conservative narrative (while insisting you're nothing of the sort) is legend. 

Larry I grew up in NYC and lived there till my mid forties. I've never lived in the heartland, though my wife's family is from the south and I've spent a lot of time there. Plenty of good people, as there are everywhere. But the politics are, for the most part, absolutely monstrous. I'm about to spend a year and a half in the outskirts of Atlanta, and will absolutely get gunned down. I never learned to have patience growing up in NY. I learned to call em like I see em.


----------



## NYC Composer

My friend- the one thing doesn't obviate the other (he said, gently)


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> @michael- I believe that it's dumb to say "all conservatives believe.... "
> 
> What I do think is that a lot of deeply religious people, including evangelical Christians, traditional Muslims and ultra Orthodox/Hasidic Jews see women as having a gender-based role that doesn't necessarily equate with the holding of great power. Not just religious and not just conservative either- I mean, how do you explain that though 50 or so % of the country is female, no female President? We're well behind a number of third world countries in that regard.



How do I explain it? I do think that the country has been partially resistant to it, but if a woman had run who I thought would be a good pres, I would vote for her.



NYC Composer said:


> Sometimes it probably looks like I equivocate-I don't think things are always 100% one thing or another. I think the conservative BASE might have been perfectly happy with Carly Fiorina. I think she would have been crushed in the general because people find her unpleasant, but in terms of her stated positions? I think her conservative orthodoxy was obvious. Base aside though, she never really got within sniffing distance- what do you make of that?
> 
> As to Hillary: I suspect when it comes down to it Michael, you're a one issue guy. Prove me wrong- could you ever vote for a pro choice candidate?


No, I would never vote for a pro choice candidate. But I am not a one issue only guy. If Hillary were prolife, I still would not vote for her. Too many issues, way too many issues.


----------



## NYC Composer

The fact that you would never vote for a pro choice candidate means that you are at least partly a one issue voter.


----------



## Soundhound

Yes, as I said, you are more patient than I. I can't take seriously or respect anyone who would vote for a Republican in this day and age. 



NYC Composer said:


> My friend- the one thing doesn't obviate the other (he said, gently)


----------



## chimuelo

I want higher murder rates, more overdoses from narcotics being walked across our borders, and burning of American cities to continue so I cant vote for Republicans either.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, there's always Gary.

Chimmy, you strike me as someone who should go to your window, put your head out and yell "I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!"

(Or you could just post here...)


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> The fact that you would never vote for a pro choice candidate means that you are at least partly a one issue voter.


I am not a one issue _only_ voter. If someone is prolife but I disagree with most other important stances, I'm not voting for that person.


----------



## NYC Composer

we'll have to leave it there, as there are varying definitions of "single issue voter", if you think about it. Let's keep it at- whatever else you like or hate about Hillart Clinton, you couldn't vote for her on that one basis anyway.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> we'll have to leave it there, as there are varying definitions of "single issue voter", if you think about it. Let's keep it at- whatever else you like or hate about Hillart Clinton, you couldn't vote for her on that one basis anyway.


Right. For positions that have any bearing on abortion law. I could vote for her for Railroad Commissioner, if I agreed with all her stances but abortion.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey, take advice from Kim Jong Un!

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/01/north-korea-tells-us-vote-wise-trump-not-dull-clinton.html


----------



## chimuelo

Make North Korea Great Again


----------



## Baron Greuner

When it comes to abortion law in just about any country, I cannot understand why this is not decided in the sole domain of women. They should certainly have the biggest say in that.


----------



## Soundhound

Exactly right. 



Baron Greuner said:


> When it comes to abortion law in just about any country, I cannot understand why this is not decided in the sole domain of women. They should certainly have the biggest say in that.


----------



## chimuelo

Indeed...
But the mother should get a cut of the action when the body parts are sold.
Planned Parenthood"lum" centers have great tax payer salaries and kickbacks from Stem Cell Research companies.
Hook a sista up...


----------



## chimuelo

My admiration of the NRA is simply for beating Liberals and Conservatives at their own game of selling legislation...

As long as there's a for sale sign above their doors these folks will remind us why they are so effective.


----------



## Soundhound

Ok whew. 



chimuelo said:


> My admiration of the NRA is simply for beating Liberals and Conservatives at their own game of selling legislation...
> 
> As long as there's a for sale sign above their doors these folks will remind us why they are so effective.


----------



## chimuelo

Would you be surprised if I told you about Liberals pension funds based on gun and ammo sales?

Let's assume these highly educated people were unaware.
Armed with the facts have they divested thier pensions or just keep giving speeches?

The latter would be the correct answer.

If I was them I would call for a complete ban immediately, then go check the deposits.


----------



## Soundhound

However we can get rid of guns, sign me up. We need guns like we need holes in the head. Literally. 

As for Liberal pension funds based on gum and ammo sales, sure would love to see some info on that. On what the funds are, and how they could be properly characterized as Liberal. Fire away!


----------



## chimuelo

Just look at Illinois first, then check the federal funds set up for politicians.
No Divesting ever done, not even after Sandy Hook and the big speeches that caused DOH to buy up billions in ammo.

It doesn't give me any confidence in these self serving elites when you read what they stand for, as opposed to what they claim they stand for.

I think there's way too much money in politics, so today I speak before about this urgent matter while you pay 300,000 USD to be seated near me at the table where plates of food cost only 33,000 USD.

Is it any wonder why we like Bernie and Trump.
Trump is really not a guy I can vote for btw.
With each passing month I find myself somewhat sorry I supported him, but it did achieve the destruction of the establishment GOP cash machine.
If Bernie could only close the deal on wealthy white multi millionaires Liberals fighting wealth inequality, drugs and poverty.


----------



## Soundhound

Glad to hear your Trump love is heading out the door. I am also glad if he did manage to tip what was left of the Republican party over the edge. And would have been happy had Bernie made it over the top as well. 

Illinois, federal funds set up for politicians. Do you mean political campaign funding? Links, baby, links! Pdfs, reports, chapter and verse.


----------



## chimuelo

*Old news for anyone who follows the money rather than the pointing fingers.*

*Try Google.*


----------



## NYC Composer

Looks to me like Bernie as VP with a deal made as to the push for his programs. I have nothing to back it up but instinct and logic. You can't let his passionate supporters go to waste. He hasn't said no. Ergo.


----------



## Soundhound

Meaning, you haven't really seen this info?



chimuelo said:


> *Old news for anyone who follows the money rather than the pointing fingers.*
> 
> *Try Google.*


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah. 3 years ago.
Old news.
But for worshippers of the Sinaloan Times I doubt there was mention.

Investigative journalism doesn't seem to be thier gig, unless it's somebody who needs to be silenced or litigated.

IIRC I read about it in foreign press first.
Then once busted, lame stream rather Williams and curic types were forced to mention it on page 30 or something.


----------



## Soundhound

Okay, post it. Would love to see it. 3 years old or no.


----------



## chimuelo

Check out California Teachers Union.
Nice knowing campaigns they fund for anti gun legislation profits from its weapons investments.
Take your pick. Most Federal Liberal Unions are big players.
Try divesting gun manufacturers.I grow weary of news from years ago.
Im onto liberal billionaires that make money from indonesian coal, brazilian oil.
Earth first brother....
Also enjoy seeing ken starr falling, denny haster.
Those great conservatives fighting for justice.
As he pays hush money to children that he fondled.
Athenian boy lover....

We are so stupid to allow such liars to pose as public servants.


----------



## Soundhound

I hear the sermon, but I can't see the verses. Anytime, I'm always around.


----------



## Soundhound

btw. I swear I remember this Hastert story coming out like 15 years ago (Clinton was still prez, or at most a few months into the Bush nightmare) and then disappearing faster than the speed of light. Can't find anything online though.

And Ken Starr, what a tool that guy is, very nice to see indeed.


----------



## chimuelo

Sorry. Dont do links.
PR Firms flood google to archive certain topics.
Haster probably stole enough money to bury the story.
But what a great wrestling coach.
Always there to hand out towels in the locker room.


----------



## NYC Composer

Funnily enough-I'm not particularly moved by the Trump University bullshit, because I thought it was total bullshit at the time. Anyone who paid all that money for a "get rich like me scheme" deserved to get fleeced. It reminded me of those real estate courses on tv at 4 a.m., just with a higher profile. 

There's your sheep analogy, Jimmy- some people line up to be sheared and hey, someone's gonna do it.


----------



## chimuelo

Whats good about this stupid lawsuit is the perception of Government + Liberal Lawyers and the President getting involved versus Trump.
Its exactly what he wants.
He gets the headlines, when the proven method is to ignore Trump starving him of the headlines.

We you mention Liberal lawyers people associate that
with the Iranian deal where we were lied to.
ACA where we were lied to.
Katie Curics lies, editing Travon Martins 911 call.
Lies, lies and more lies.

Trump cannot win without headlines.

Now with Obama piling on its become Lying Liberal Lawyers and Lying Liberal media versus Trump.

Theyre so smart theyre stupid.
I can see him turn this around immediately after getting the headlines.


----------



## JonFairhurst

What I don't get is why any renter would support Trump. Why would anybody vote for their evil landlord to be president?

His economic policy seems to be, "By raising your rent, I will make you rich."


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't see him turning it around. I just don't see that it matters.


----------



## Soundhound

Um, (or erm as the Brits say), oooooookay... Kind of hard to discuss it without the smoking guns though Sir Jimmy.



chimuelo said:


> Sorry. Dont do links.


----------



## Soundhound

I know it's amazing. It really is just a heightening of the snake oil the right wing has been selling the working class since Reagan (ok, forever): Big business is on your side, let big business flourish, and we'll totally cut you in on the proceeds. really. We swear. It'll be sooooo great.

And while they're at it, they've got a great bridge they'd like to sell. Except they don't want to pay for bridges. More like they've got a bridge that's about to collapse at any moment they'd like to sell. 



JonFairhurst said:


> What I don't get is why any renter would support Trump. Why would anybody vote for their evil landlord to be president?
> 
> His economic policy seems to be, "By raising your rent, I will make you rich."


----------



## woodsdenis




----------



## Soundhound

Stolen and shared. Many thanks!


----------



## chimuelo

He was right. They are Sheep.
Only 25% of the population.
Then theres the 20% of Sheep called Liberals.
Its the 35% of independents who decide which liars go to Washington.

If these 2 inconsequential groups were smart they would concentrate on making valid arguments with the folks who decide these elections.

After all the liars you worship have enough sense in September to come back from la la land when it counts.

Maybe if the picture above had a more recent picture dummies would believe it was recent enough to matter.

Do what liberal journslists do.
Edit. Then when caught lying because theyre really not very bright, use a nice lawyer ish term like mispoke or creative editing.

Conservatives are history.
Lying liberals are next to fall.

But by all means keep the sheep fights going.
Folks that arent goose stepping along with the Sheep enjoy watching them beat the shit out of each other.


----------



## NYC Composer

Why is it that you suggest that people you don't know "worship" something you disagree with? is random insulting really the way you go about things OFF the Internet? You seem so much smarter than some of the things you say.


----------



## NYC Composer

Dog whistle words- "liberal" "sheep" "worship" "lying" "lawyers" "lame stream media". You could be reading straight out of the Fox News manual.


----------



## chimuelo

Id say they copied me then Larry.

I always liked the phrase lame stream.
Fits the Dan Rather, Brian Williams Katie Curic types perfectly well.
They are liars.
Liberals are liars.

Shovel ready jobs .....lies
Keep your doctor...period.......lies.
24/7 access to nuclear sites.......lies.

Which legislation can you name where we were told the truth?
How about those Lois Lane emails?
Not even a politician, just a federal liberal, and still lies...and more lies.

Liberalism means wealthy lawyers lying.
They liberate nothing.

Ask Syrians, Libyans, Egyptians, Urkranians, Yemenis or even Liberal voters who have 10,000,000 more joining them in poverty from Liberalism.

Lies, and unlike Italians under Mussolini, they said oh well the trains run on time.
These guys destroy everything from entire nations to American neighborhoods.

Other than that theyve done a great job Liberating things.

I say send them back to getting baby rapers off the hook.
At least they could win under those circumstances.


----------



## NYC Composer

Prosecutors go to law school as well. Do you like them?

I don't think they copied you, Chim. Your hat still fit on your head, btw?


----------



## chimuelo

I love Lawyers.
Just not Government Liberal lying trial lawyers.
Folks been copying me for years Larry.
I called our PCs DAWgs that hunt then see a company open up a business using my ideas.
I helped invent the IEM Concept in 1986 when I was taking drum wedges off of stages and giving those 12 dollar mini headphones clicks and PFL Mixes.
Youd be surprised how much better America has become with Chimuelos superior intelect.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, nothing would surprise me about you. You've run the entire gamut for me, from A to B!


----------



## chimuelo

9pm means I gotsta go.
I shall come back after the gig and bash wealthy liberals with you in the am.
Id bash conservatives but havent they been beaten up enough?
They cant even buy an interview theyre so pathetic.

I might get my dog walked tonight.
Lots of feverish chicks here in Vegas.

Cheers


----------



## NYC Composer

Ah, you're back on home turf! Have fun.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron, you better check in before I start wondering if you fell and broke a hip. This is NOT recommended for older folks. You should know this.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Ah no Larry it's not that. haha! No no no.

I know when to pull out for while when you guys get serious about your own politics. Can't interfere in any of that.

I will say though that a very very _very_ serious buffoon of the first order was on TV last night and looked like a _very _very very serious buffoon. This EU thing is turning into an even bigger farce than before.

People need to understand that this is not really about the EU. It's about the Prime Minister and his Chancellor.


----------



## NYC Composer

Do tell us more! We could make this into the Brexit/Trump thread.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Well the whole of television is just full of this crap everyday. The really interesting Trump and Hillary saga is forgotten. I don't know what's going on in the USA until they get back to it.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Jimmy's logic:

Because:
a) Liberals are ultra bad, and
b) conservatives are kinda bad (but I'll only write that after being accused of being right wing), then
c) everybody should support a demagogue.

Frankly, the only reason that Trump will be the nominee is that Al Capone wasn't available. Al was tough, ran a big organization, would eliminate all restrictions on business, and didn't like paying taxes to the US government. He's the model GOP candidate!


----------



## NYC Composer

It's true, Michael- we don't believe women should be told what to do with their bodies, as that is akin to slavery.


----------



## chimuelo

Let the Sheepfights begin.
Speaking of fights.

I just now got around to watching violent thugs attacking a chick and then sucker punching another Trump supporter.
I thought well thats what you get for going to Mexico.

Then I realized the burning of the American flag and all of the Mexican flags and black ISIS style ski masks were in San Jose.

I wonder if those pakistani and afghans they caught being smuggled in the southwest yesterday were heading for San Jose?
Shave the spinach off your chin and youll be on subsidies in no time.
Then you can get paid as you build some bombs.

Jerry Brown might even let them vote and give them licenses.
Mahammed Benetiz......?
Awesome...


----------



## NYC Composer

Let's kill em all, Jimmy. That way we're safe.

As to violent protests, man woman or child, I've BEEN on picket lines and been spat on. I do not condone violent protest from left OR right.


----------



## chimuelo

I'd rather see the laws enforced.
But when lobbyists from Chamber of Commerce purchase conservatives to bottle up legislation for cheap labor, and Liberals import poverty so they can grow thier voter base somebody needs to stop the madness.
Someone who is not for sale.
Pretty much disqualifies the 2 Law Firms in Washington.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Al Capone wouldn't be for sale either. Capone for president!


----------



## Soundhound

Jerry Brown rocks. Keeping it short today!


----------



## chimuelo

I also like Al Capone and Jerry Brown.
Brown should have run since he has actual experience governing.
Delegating authority and failing is not a qualification.


----------



## Soundhound

Brown has been getting lots of great things done in CA, kind of under the radar.


----------



## chimuelo

Most of my family lives in Cali so we often talk about the assholes in Sacramento that only think of re election.

Brown was more concerned with the sad state of affairs in the poorer central valley districts like Stanislaw County or Stockton knowing they would be obliterated by higher gss taxes, a Liberal favorite.

He was a Governor before so knowing how to move legislation along slowly keeps it alive while not being in the eyes of the public.
When gas prices dropped he moved several bills through in rapid succession and revenues soared.

This is how the State can afford the insanely expensive train.
People cry about costs but the time to spend is when your raking in revenue.
While his policies are extremely Liberal he uses fiscal sense.
The infrastructure spending is what creates a boom.

We would be so much better off if wealthy whites didnt lie and steal the stimulus.
ACA would have had less tax payer bail outs, united health care wouldnt be leaving California.

So you see I have little use for academic dreamers.
Ill take a proven Governor any day over these faculty lounge part timers.


----------



## chimuelo

Oh btw 38 more towers are on the books starting in 2018.
My boy will relocate since he is a boomer.
I figured Bernie would make everything free so he wouldnt be sponging off me, or there would be a boom in Nevada Seattle or NorCal.
Seattle gets a housing bubble, Nevada gets another 400 Solar Arrays but the real boom is the NorCal towers and train.
Brown saved California from the freak show in Sacramento.....

Wish he'd take the VP slot.
He would give Liberals a good name again.
Id even vote for crooked Hillary.
My guess is Pocahontas will lie her way in seeings how shes a victim of white oppression.
Then Ill just vomit for years more under fake Liberalism....


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Oh btw 38 more towers are on the books starting in 2018.
> My boy will relocate since he is a boomer.
> I figured Bernie would make everything free so he wouldnt be sponging off me, or there would be a boom in Nevada Seattle or NorCal.
> Seattle gets a housing bubble, Nevada gets another 400 Solar Arrays but the real boom is the NorCal towers and train.
> Brown saved California from the freak show in Sacramento.....
> 
> Wish he'd take the VP slot.
> He would give Liberals a good name again.
> Id even vote for crooked Hillary.
> My guess is Pocahontas will lie her way in seeings how shes a victim of white oppression.
> Then Ill just vomit for years more under fake Liberalism....


I guess the Donald copied all those cutesy names for Hillary etc. from you.
How does he follow you, on the Internet?


----------



## chimuelo

Actually I give credit to the next President.
He comes up with some good brands on occasion.
I've done this since we was kids though and decades later the names still stick.

Best buddy never been in the wilderness before, didn't like the out house because of flies.
Wonders off in the woods and wipes his ass with Poison Ivy, so I called him Itchy.
Even his wife I never met yet called out "yo Itchcy" last time I called.
Got to give the man credit though, little Marco was on the money.

I'll let you know how many of the towers the Donald and Jerry Brown cooked up together.
Those guys hung together on more than one occasion, probably bought him too...


----------



## NYC Composer

The "next President" seems determined to alienate as many Hispanics as possible. The bit with the judge in his Fuck U, er, Trump U civil case is hilarious. You'd swear this guy didn't actually WANT the job. This behavior got him the nomination, I guess we'll see about the general. After all, he don't need no steenking advice....


----------



## chimuelo

I was really hoping he was going to turn into a new character once he secured the nomination.
But instead became overwhelmed with himself.
He suffers from unchallenged success like MacArthur. Too many yes men cashing in on the big salaries he gives them. 

He actually screwed himself as Union Trades were uncommitted. His latest remarks show he can't take advice, which in itself is bad enough, but immediately after the comments about the judge LIUNA threw it's weight behind Hillary.
He of all people should have known these are middle class mostly Hispanic workers, the very Latinos he needed to get 30+ %.
He won't get them back.
But I look forward to watching the trashy show knowing you won 100 sampled sounds.
It was worth it watching him bash those I dislike.
But as a brown skinned racist, roots from California Pachukas. I can't vote for an all white party once the worker bees leave.
Give me your address, let's take care of this now.
But I gotta cheer him on as bashes the NeoCons.
That's well worth the wager....


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, I gotta say that regardless of the outcome, the political world is changed forever, and it has been an amazing show. I really do think he is the most full of himself person I've ever witnessed, and if he wins, I think it will be dreadful. I'm not counting my 100 samples yet though. Way too much time left.


----------



## chimuelo

NeoCons are going to win again.
Sanders or Trump were the only real changes.
Clinton will invade Venezuela student loans will skyrocket and amnesty will guarantee a large lower middle class in debt thier entire life.
Folks should know deep state NeoCons control the leadership of both parties, the bail outs, student loan sharks, Wall Street, big insurance gangsters.
The perfect storm of debt combined with solutions based on low skilled cheap labor.
Deep state NeoCons only need amnesty to control 2 more decades of slow growth and low wages.


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> It was worth it watching him bash those I dislike.



This single sentence captures the essence of Trump's popularity. For far too many, the bashing is more important than stuff like policy, knowledge, experience, wisdom, public service, honesty, respect or anything else that really matters.


----------



## chimuelo

Damn Jon save some of that cock for me......

Important stuff like "policy" you mean shipping weapons to mexico where 80,000 people, some American Border agents were killed?
Knowledge....as in faculty lounge economic genius...?
Experience and wisdom......Yes, learning on the job
Public service and honesty........yeah like Hillary did for the guys she sent into Benghazzi...?
Respect?
Sure, stop lying and fundraising, then I might consider the multitude of failure and carnage forgivable.

But as a brown skinned white racist since I dare question our elites, I support whoever wins regardless of their lifelong successes or failures.
Maybe someday we can have an honest Government in the process.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> This single sentence captures the essence of Trump's popularity. For far too many, the bashing is more important than stuff like policy, knowledge, experience, wisdom, public service, honesty, respect or anything else that really matters.


I'm no Trump supporter, but there are many on the left who fit that bill just as much as Trump supporters.


----------



## Soundhound

The closer we get to the election, the more your 'no party' veneer fades away, and the Fox News talking points are left standing, unobscured. 

Learning on the job. 
Benghazzi
Respect

Seriously, Jimmy? Those are the kinds of things the know nothings at Trump rallies repeat. You're sounding more and more like one of your cherished sheep every day.




chimuelo said:


> Damn Jon save some of that cock for me......
> 
> Important stuff like "policy" you mean shipping weapons to mexico where 80,000 people, some American Border agents were killed?
> Knowledge....as in faculty lounge economic genius...?
> Experience and wisdom......Yes, learning on the job
> Public service and honesty........yeah like Hillary did for the guys she sent into Benghazzi...?
> Respect?
> Sure, stop lying and fundraising, then I might consider the multitude of failure and carnage forgivable.
> 
> But as a brown skinned white racist since I dare question our elites, I support whoever wins regardless of their lifelong successes or failures.
> Maybe someday we can have an honest Government in the process.


----------



## chimuelo

You would have made a great Jehovahs witness.
At this point thier God might deliver quicker on a promise than the Gods you worship.
Pagan idolatry I say.


----------



## Soundhound

You won't provide any of the evidence for the claims you make (do you make everything up, certainly looks like it at this point) and you accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being sheep and idolators (whatever the right word is). Yet you parrot right wing talking points. Thou dost protest way too much Jimmy. I think you drank the Reagan kool aid way back when and have been deeply embarrassed every since you realized it was a load of crap. You're not covering your tracks very well my friend.

I don't worship lightly. I don't believe in god, and as a dedicated anti-theist created my own pantheon (we humans like to have heros) Mine growing up were all flesh and blood: Muhammad Ali, Malcolm X, MLK, Jimi Hendrix, Duane Allman...


----------



## chimuelo

The new Gods you bow before, have brought shame to the Memory of Elizabeth Reed.

Couldnt vote until Reagans 2nd term.

I will forever live in guilt of voting for the man who brought so many Europeans out of poverty.
Allowed parents to afford to pay college tuitions and own 2 homes, investing in the American economy.

I was young, didnt realize millions of Americans starved as I prospered.

Out of guilt I swear to pay wealthy white Liberals 50-80k a year so our academics can make 500k a year.
And we can be in debt with high interest loans while their Wall Street buddies get interest free loans and loan us the free money at a profit.

Youre so right.
How can I not support the wealthy white multi millionaires in their quest to end wealth inequality and stave off poverty as the middle class implodes.

Please point me to the proper rich liberal and forgive me for my sins father.


----------



## Soundhound

I take it back, you still bow and pray to saint reagan, rewriting history and making sh*t up every step of the way to keep the faith. Your god ushered in the era of selfishness and sociopathy in politics, rampant capitalism, which finally brought the economy to its knees. It all makes way more sense now, thanks for clearing it up! Of course, it would take a Reagan acolyte to consider Donald Trump a reasonable approach for bringing sanity back to the political system.


----------



## chimuelo

He won't win.
And I'll probably vote for Hillary since rich white folks have always been cool with me.
But look forward to jerking your chain more as the staged events draw to a conclusion.

I pick on worshippers of the GOP too.
But they usually don't dwell in music forums much.
That's like seeing trans genders hunting chucker birds in the Sierras.

Be festive bro.


----------



## Soundhound

I don't know what a chucker bird is, but then my poetry chops are not anywhere near your league. Now you're voting for Hillary? You're a hero Jimmy. And certifiable. Unless you've been jerking my chain the whole time? I usually reserve that right to myself and swedish runway models, but I apparently have to make an exception here.


----------



## chimuelo

I'm flying to Sweden tomorrow.
I always come home broke since the pay is mezzo mezzo, and I love sex with women who don't speak Espanol or Englaise...
Then back to racist Midwest.
This 106 degree weather sucks in Vegas.
I seek a 6 foot tall Julie Newmar...


----------



## Soundhound

Is there any other kind?


----------



## NYC Composer

106 sucks everywhere, but it's probably worst in New Orleans, at least in my experience.


----------



## Soundhound

If they ever air condition the whole city, I'm moving to New Orleans.


----------



## Soundhound

Bullshit, Michael.


JonFairhurst said: ↑
This single sentence captures the essence of Trump's popularity. For far too many, the bashing is more important than stuff like policy, knowledge, experience, wisdom, public service, honesty, respect or anything else that really matters.


Michael K. Bain said:


> I'm no Trump supporter, but there are many on the left who fit that bill just as much as Trump supporters.


----------



## NYC Composer

I think there are plenty of bashers everywhere, personally-but Trump supporters are particularly gleeful about supporting every bit of hatred, racism and adolescent "gotcha" crap that Trump has pulled, truly unlike anything I've ever seen in politics. The puerile name calling alone-sure, we've seen it before, but at this level and this junior high? I think his campaign will change politics forever, and not in a good way.

The only good thing about all of this is as Chimmy says-watching the establishments of both parties quake in their boots as Trump and Bernie take most of the passion. Both parties NEEDED to be scared and shaken up. Bernie has done that for the Dems.


----------



## Baron Greuner

The problem as I see it from this side of the pond is it now doesn't matter who wins the US election. Because the result either way will divide everyone into a 50/50 camp roughly, with Hillary coming out on top. So you'll get a divided nation.
That's what is about to happen here. Doesn't matter what the result of the Eu referendum is this month. If the remain camp wins, they'll chuck Cameron out and if the leave camp wins he'll be gone on 24 hours anyway. But you'll have a divided nation here after this vote, the worst in living memory for most people. It's can only turn out bad.


----------



## NYC Composer

It's a glum outlook. Problem is- the things that tend to unite people are- existential threats! I don't want any of those- so we'll have to wait out this time of madness and muddle through.

I always hope for the best of humanity-reason, common purpose, shared destiny, balance, character, sanity, compassion, a sense of humor. People can surprise you sometimes.

I miss Muhammad Ali already. He had all of those things.


----------



## chimuelo

Not really Baron.
Its more like a 3 way split.
55% of Americans know these lying bastards serve themselves and thier investors. No biggie as long as we dont go broke helping them repay foreign dignitaries and billionaire backers.
The other 45% are a 2 way split of dual flocks of misguided Sheep, who actually believe wealthy white multi millionaires are taking on the evils of the world just for them.
The indoctrination of these false parties starts in public schools where they are told they select a candidate and if thier champion wins they were a part of that mythical process.

The DNC and GOP just prooved to all who have grown a brain, that these multi millionaires are pre selected.

This is why Trump and Bernie exist.

But safety precautions are still in place to protect investors. The electoral college.
Most Sheep are unaware of that process as those rules can change according to percievable threats to the investors.

But when its all over nothing changes, anti war liberals will invade nations, conservatives will fund liberal causes.
Just a big nest of self serving liars.

But millions of Sheep will clack thier hooves in approval.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy-I can't figure out if you're drinking too much or not enough.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I vote for this to be the official tune of the US Election.


----------



## chimuelo

Hooves & Wool....

Larry I wish I had a shot.
Been stuck in a Federal/Union/Liberal TSA Line and the Airport is the only place in Vegas that isnt 24/7 cocktails.
If I am to die by lightning strikes in Europe or ISIS fighters I want a buzz.
Why die straight? Makes no sense.

Hillary got the OK to use AC/DC music in her campaign to help attract white racist angry males.



She was refused permission to use Washington D.C.'s district song "There'll Never Be Another Ewe."


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> Bullshit, Michael.


Hey, you said you thought that you and I should not converse here anymore (at the same time you were ripping me a new one, I add). I agree that we shouldn't converse, and have lived up to that. My response was clearly to Jon, not to you. Leave me alone.


----------



## Soundhound

I made the rule, and I decided to make an exception since you decided to take time out from calling people baby killers to saying something else just as stupid. 

So there.


----------



## Soundhound

To everyone but Michael:

I think it's already very polarized, but I can't believe that 50% of the country is dumb enough to vote for Trump. They were dumb enough to vote for W, but Trump doesn't even pretend to be competent, he's an out and out clown. It'll be interesting to see how many actually vote for him. In a horrifying, no one gets out of here alive kind of way.


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah but nobody owns more Liberals than him, except maybe for foundation investors from Russia China Africa and the Middle East.

Liberals were always cheap whores, but thanks to citizens united they are sold now for call girl prices.

This is classier as nobody gets turned on by overweight elderly Pole Dancers.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy now you stop that this instant! Don't make me turn this car around! Ok what Liberal whores did he buy, and for how much? Names and prices. I want to see the receipts.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> I made the rule, and I decided to make an exception since you decided to take time out from calling people baby killers to saying something else just as stupid.
> 
> So there.



You could have refrained from responding to my remarks, just like I refrained from responding to yours.

But the reason you didn't refrain is because what you meant by your "rule" wasn't actually "let's agree to not converse"; it was "Michael, I want you to agree not to post anything at all on this forum".


----------



## Soundhound

No I meant what I said when I said it. But your occasional sniping is so annoying I broke my rule. I'm not perfect, as it turns out.

Your suggestion, however, is not without merit.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> It's a glum outlook.



The trouble with TV and Don & Hillary is it gets broadcast in such a way that it starts to sound like a particularly nasty divorce settlement trial between two old people.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump said Steven Hawking was faking it today.
His polls shot up 10%.


----------



## NYC Composer

Thing is- with DJT, he could VERY POSSIBLY trash Hawking and his fans would cheer.

Hound and Michael- play nice or there will be NO Jello with marshmallows for EITHER of you.


----------



## Soundhound

no marshmallows! life without marshmallows is unthinkable. I'll be good!


----------



## NYC Composer

OMG! Did Michael make a fair point, and did 'Hound grudgingly concede it?? I've even seem Michael concede a point here and there...

From small acorns....

:::singing Kumbaya::::


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I've even seem Michael concede a point here and there...



I have conceded a few. You've seen me apologize to different folks quite a few times, as well.


----------



## NYC Composer

....and I've tried to extend an olive branch to you and give you a sense that I value your presence here. If we only talk to people we agree with, there is no hope.


----------



## Soundhound

Well I talk with Chim a lot-ish, and I have absolutely no idea if I agree with him or not (though I'm pretty sure I don't). Does that count? Probably not...


----------



## NYC Composer

All good intentions count with me.

The important thing for me is to open dialogue. There are certain things that cannot be settled (abortion) but many that can (how tax money can be spent as efficiently and compassionately as possible, as one example.)

Finding some way to stop yelling at each other and start finding common ground is totally, totally paramount in my view.


----------



## Soundhound

I tried to have an in depth conversation with Michael. For me, it's impossible. I was just watching the Jake Tapper interview with Trump, and that's exactly what it felt like. A nonsensical waste of time.


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> I tried to have an in depth conversation with Michael. For me, it's impossible. I was just watching the Jake Tapper interview with Trump, and that's exactly what it felt like. A nonsensical waste of time.



Okay. I disagree....and I find the statement hyperbolic.

You would be considered "far left" by many. For some, that puts you in the crazy camp. I don't find you crazy at all, as I agree with most of your viewpoints...however, I consider the very idea that we are all yelling at each other and calling each other crazy...to be crazy. So when you go there, I don't find it to be a lack of patience-I find it to be an unwillingness to even consider any other point of view because of your belief in personal rectitude...and the wrong way to go about healing this country.


----------



## Soundhound

I think anyone that thinks I am far left does so because they are far right. I never thought much about politics until Reagan was elected, which I found horrifying, and the country has moved ever farther to the right ever since. I'm not telling you anything we haven't discussed before - Richard Nixon would be considered left wing today. So perhaps then yes, to many people raised in a profoundly right wing world, my viewpoints would be considered far left. 

But absolutely, yelling at each other on the internet is absolutely a waste of time, and I'm as guilty, if not more so, than the next guy. I have listened carefully to what Michael has to say, and I have tried to engage him in extended conversation, and found it to be a mobius strip of illogic and willful ignorance. The fact that he feels the New York Times is a left wing rag kind of sums it up for me. I have plenty of problems with the Times, and there are other reputable papers that can serve as a baseline for knowing what's going on. The Washington Post is also a good paper... But without some agreement on basic facts, you can't have a discussion.

There is a dangerous, willful ignorance that has been growing in the right wing the last 40 years, fed by Fox News and the RNC, culminating in Donald Trump being the republican nominee for president. The poison, disinformation and vitriol is deep and pernicious, and I assume it will take just as long to undo the damage as it did to cause it. I don't think these people can be reasoned with. I think experience is the only teacher, and, god willing, we'll live through a new new deal or some kind of progressive political renaissance, and things will get better, and people will see that the greedy, repressive, business first, trickle down neocon snake oil was just that. I have just as good a chance of getting through to Michael as Jake Tapper has of getting Trump to answer his questions: none.


----------



## NYC Composer

I am going to stubbornly stick to the same ground-it's not a matter off "getting through" to someone, you to him or him to you. The areas of extreme disagreement are obvious. The trick is-what is the common ground? I will suggest some examples:

1. Do you both want the American experiment to survive?
2. Is it a fact that we need to show compassion for the less fortunate? What's the best way to go about that?
3. How do people of vastly differing viewpoints learn to tolerate each other so that the American experiment can not only survive but thrive?

I could go on for quite a bit, but that's a start.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> ....and I've tried to extend an olive branch to you and give you a sense that I value your presence here. If we only talk to people we agree with, there is no hope.


And I appreciate that.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> I tried to have an in depth conversation with Michael. For me, it's impossible. I was just watching the Jake Tapper interview with Trump, and that's exactly what it felt like. A nonsensical waste of time.


You accuse me of passive aggressiveness, and yet you always talk about me behind my back like this. It's not enough for you to insult me as you kick me out the door; a few posts later you have to proclaim to everyone what an idiot I am.
Do you ever stop to consider what kind of impression you are making? Do you think that anyone here enjoys how you treat people?


----------



## Soundhound

Michael I'll propose again (I think I suggested this before?) that we take this offline and spare the rest of the group the tedium of our interaction. I don't care particularly how I come off, I'm too old for that, and never really minded making a fool of myself, kind of my thing actually. I'm more interested in discussing the issues. There's an olive branch for you!


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> Trump said Steven Hawking was faking it today.
> His polls shot up 10%.



He's right. Everyone thinks that's a fake voice. But that's his real voice and he's been talking like that since birth. He could talk at 4 months apparently.


----------



## chimuelo

Ancient Gayliens claimed Einstein Hawking and Sagan are in touch with a universal knowledge.
Elan Musk says we live in a computer simulation.
We should be able to hack it and rid ourselves of Liberals and Conservatives by giving humans extra intelligence.


----------



## Soundhound

If we get really good coders can we also all live in Sweden, except it will be located in the Caribbean?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Ancient Gayliens claimed Einstein Hawking and Sagan are in touch with a universal knowledge.
> Elan Musk says we live in a computer simulation.
> We should be able to hack it and rid ourselves of Liberals and Conservatives by giving humans extra intelligence.


Jimmy, do you watch Person of Interest? If not, you should start. From the first episode. I think you would really like it. It's one of my faves.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Soundhound said:


> Michael I'll propose again (I think I suggested this before?) that we take this offline and spare the rest of the group the tedium of our interaction. I don't care particularly how I come off, I'm too old for that, and never really minded making a fool of myself, kind of my thing actually. I'm more interested in discussing the issues. There's an olive branch for you!


I'll accept that olive branch, and I agree, but not to "take it offline": to end it.


----------



## woodsdenis

Seriously this nut job is the best candidate the GOP can come up with ?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

woodsdenis said:


> Seriously this nut job is the best candidate the GOP can come up with ?



No, he's not the best. The best ones didn't win.


----------



## Soundhound

That wasn't the olive branch on offer. When you prattle on about baby killers and other divisive, inane biases, expect to be a target by yours truly.



Michael K. Bain said:


> I'll accept that olive branch, and I agree, but not to "take it offline": to end it.


----------



## NYC Composer

:::Larry feels ineffective:::


----------



## Soundhound

Don't feel ineffective. As Dr Jimmy says, there's no dealing with true believers like myself.


----------



## Soundhound

And some 40 or 50 million people are going to vote for him to be president of the united states. (Hopefully it'll be more like 20 or 30 million.) I remember hearing way back when that Trump had Roy Cohn on the payroll. Well Ted Cruz is considered by many of his peers to be the closest we've come to Joe McCarthy since the days of the blacklists, so a nice full circle narrative there. 



woodsdenis said:


> Seriously this nut job is the best candidate the GOP can come up with ?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> :::Larry feels ineffective:::


Buck up. You're not ineffective. I'm through.


----------



## NYC Composer

(Responding to "true believers")

Yeah, I'm gonna choose to disbelieve that as I have all my life. I've known a lot of true believers. I am one myself.

In my opinion:

People who are particularly fanatical about things often ignore the very practical aspect of tone. There are people who can make me cringe with the sound of their voices (physical, I mean), just nails on a blackboard. I think the same thing is true in text to a degree. If you go around calling people morons for their beliefs, the only benefit is to yourself. You have been true to yourself by speaking your truth in a straightforward manner. This gives you a little frisson of internal satisfaction, and alienates anyone you are talking at. It's unchecked ego, really. Self validating, self congratulatory-yet totally ineffective and impractical for any sort of debate. Me , I shoot for effective dialogue, not to change anybody's mind, but to maybe find some small amount of common ground on which to build.

None of this is specifically aimed at you, Hound or you, Michael. I'm just musing about how I wish to approach the world.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> Buck up. You're not ineffective. I'm through.


... exactly why I feel ineffective.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> ... exactly why I feel ineffective.


Didn't you want the back-n-forth to stop?


----------



## NYC Composer

No. I want it to be civil.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> No. I want it to be civil.


This is how it will remain civil.


----------



## Soundhound

Well I was being self deprecating. I don't think I'm a true believer in anything really, aside from the Knicks, Jimi Hendrix and Mozart. Or as Woody Allen said, sex and death...

Self righteous indignation, is, I agree, pretty useless. Unfortunately, it's all I hear when Michael expresses himself. Presumably that's all he hears when I do the same. It's a good test tube I guess for what's going on in the country, unfortunately.

I defend and respect Michael's right to say whatever he wants to say. But that doesn't mean I have to respect his opinions. I don't respect his opinions. Indeed, they seem to me highly representative of what's gone wrong with the country. Right wing thought and media have so dominated american politics and culture the last 30 years, when I come face to face with it, the damage it has done, and the hypocrisy marshaled to further it, it makes me sad. And angry.

I offered to take it offline so we could spare the rest of the group the annoyance of our incessant bickering. And that offer stands. But I don't think Michael wants a dialogue, he wants to proselytize.


----------



## NYC Composer

I think there are things that it's impossible to find middle ground on. If one side believes abortion is murder and the other believes lack of choice is slavery, there is no middle ground.

Two points about that:

1. I've never been any kind of stickler for sticking to a posted topic, but the thread topic IS Trump and the amazing phenomenon of his candidacy. That was the intended point of the discussion.

2. I reiterate-it behooves us to try to find common ground because if people of good intent don't occasionally pause in yelling at each other, someday we won't have a country.Tex-it, anyone?


----------



## Soundhound

Fair enough for sure. As far as not having a country, the last 15 years or so has made me wonder if we wouldn't be better off going our separate ways. I personally can live just fine without the red states; don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

But Trump it is. He seems to be getting closer and closer to melting down. To steal a little from the great Gil Scott Heron—I really, really hope it's televised.


----------



## NYC Composer

Who would have guessed that this judge thing would have been the final straw for so many Republicans, after all the outrageous things he's said?


----------



## Soundhound

The GOP works in mysterious ways.


----------



## chimuelo

Liberals should easily win the election.
Independents must leave work early which costs money.
Liberals dont have jobs so the advantage is on thier side.
Thier EBT cards are refilled on the 1st-3rd, so by giving away public transportation vouchers I cant see how folks who work for a living plan on beating out subsidized Liberals.

But theres so many union democrats leaving the save the children, puppies and kittens liberals that its a tough call......


----------



## NYC Composer

Yeah, screw the kids. America First!


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey- speaking of kids, holy moley! New PAC ad cynically using the parents of a kid with spina bifida, talking about Trump making fun of the disabled. However cynical, it's VERY effective. Why? Because it shows Trump doing his spastic act. I'd forgotten just how horrible it actually was.

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2...ac-goes-after-trump-mocking-disabled-reporter


----------



## Baron Greuner

This is what happens when I leave the building for 5 minutes. You lot would have been better off remaining British. Then you could be voting for you very own Brexit today instead of these two wankers. Oh hang on a second. We are voting for are very own two wankers in 16 days. Let's change the date to November and all have a vote on four wankers at the same time. There's an old saying - 4 tossers are better than 2...or errr something.


----------



## NYC Composer

We would have stayed if you hadn't been so bloody greedy.

Meanwhile, my Baron, they tell us the Brexit vote grows quite close as the leave camp gains momentum!


----------



## Baron Greuner

It's _apparently_ very close Larry. But I will bet you folding dollars that the Remain campers will win this comfortably. Difficult to make a judgement because the last polls in the 2015 General all showed a Labour/SNP coalition by a mile and look what happened. We got Cameron again.

What I don't like to see is Cameron rallying and trying get all the younger voters to register by the end of today, simply so they can then be vote yes fodder on his say so. This is a very bad Prime Minister we have in at the present time.
Couple days ago, a past Prime Minister named John Major came out to tell everyone who would listen that the Brexit campaign is nothing but lies, lies and damned lies. That maybe so, but a definite truth is that Major was, and still is one of the wettest fucking weekends in Scarborough and nothing is going to change that.

I actually got talked out of going down to the betting establishments and betting on a Remain BS and The Hills have Eyes £50 double, but my wife talked me out of it.


----------



## NYC Composer

My wife doesn't gamble either. Damn women spoil all our boyish fun.


----------



## chimuelo

A 3rd party candidate should enter the race now that Obama is behind Hillary.
It shows he won't allow the FBI to indict or even expose the emails that prove the Trade Bill is going to allow cheap labor to stagnate American wages.
You would need California to do that.
They love actors like Reagan and Scharwzenegger.
I'd say Sylvestor Stallone or one of the Marvell characters.
Thor with Captain America as VP.
Stallone could get RuPaul as VP.

Someone must save America from crazy people or more regime changing NeoCons.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> A 3rd party candidate should enter the race now that Obama is behind Hillary.
> It shows he won't allow the FBI to indict or even expose the emails that prove the Trade Bill is going to allow cheap labor to stagnate American wages.
> You would need California to do that.
> They love actors like Reagan and Scharwzenegger.
> I'd say Sylvestor Stallone or one of the Marvell characters.
> Thor with Captain America as VP.
> Stallone could get RuPaul as VP.
> 
> Someone must save America from crazy people or more regime changing NeoCons.


Chuck Norris. He would save America - by force. I mean, after all...


----------



## NYC Composer

Chuck! Chuck! Chuck! Chuck!

:::chanting madly with the crowd:::

Will someone please send me to bed?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Hey- speaking of kids, holy moley! New PAC ad cynically using the parents of a kid with spina bifida, talking about Trump making fun of the disabled. However cynical, it's VERY effective. Why? Because it shows Trump doing his spastic act. I'd forgotten just how horrible it actually was.
> 
> http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2...ac-goes-after-trump-mocking-disabled-reporter



It's despicable. Absolutely despicable. I don't care the man's politics, disabilities are off-limits.

I have had arguments with Trump supporters who actually try to condone it by claiming 

(1) the reporter is a liar, so he's fair game
or
(2) He wasn't mocking the disability. He was mocking a man who just so happened to have a disability


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Chuck! Chuck! Chuck! Chuck!
> 
> :::chanting madly with the crowd:::
> 
> Will someone please send me to bed?


Chuck will. But believe me, you don't want Chuck to give you a reason to have to go to bed.


----------



## chimuelo

There'll be videos of Trump personally removing paraplegic golfers from his Golf Courses for holding up players.
Kicking at their asses as they struggle to get back in thier carts.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> There'll be videos of Trump personally removing paraplegic golfers from his Golf Courses for holding up players.
> Kicking at their asses as they struggle to get back in thier carts.


That gave me a good chuckle. Thanks a lot, Jimmy. Now I'll have that image stuck in my head all day.


----------



## Baron Greuner

All TV reporters and TV stations/corporations have agendas. In the UK, all the TV channels wan to stay in the EU, and so logically, they sway everything towards that side of the argument. There is no balance left in the world and perhaps there never has been.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> My wife doesn't gamble either. Damn women spoil all our boyish fun.



She talked me out of it not because of the EU part of the bet, but because she thinks there's a chance that Trump might win. Ha! (as in derision)


----------



## Soundhound

Makes the craven venality of House of Cards look like Sesame Street:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/u...e-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0


----------



## NYC Composer

I am desperate for Bernie to cave and accept the Vice Presidency, but with guaranteed influence on policy.


----------



## Soundhound

Me too. So much so, I was really conflicted when I went to vote today. So even though Jimmy recently disavowed him, I voted for Trump. My thinking is with Trump as president and Jimmy in full voice, we could witness the first ever great right wing stand up. I hope I did the right thing.


----------



## NYC Composer

Now you're getting into the spirit, 'Hound!


----------



## Soundhound

Trying! We're moving to Atlanta suburbs in a month or so for a year. Do you think the Bernie '16 cap and totebag will really wow them at the country club? I like to try and make a good first impression with the neighbors.


----------



## NYC Composer

I got a cousin in Alpharetta and a friend at Emory. Don't envy you.


----------



## Soundhound

The little I've seen of Atlanta I actually liked. Some nice, cool neighborhoods, lots of college kids and places they like to eat, etc. I guess Atlanta became a magnet for people in the south who aren't, um, of the Mitch McConnel/Paul Ryan school of human. Has a big gay community, lots of music going on etc. I'm trying to turn it into the NY of the south in my fevered imagination (all apologies to New Orleans, I'd love to live there someday).

Unfortunately we're not going to be in Atlanta, we're about 30 mins south because that's where my wife's work is. That area has become full of people who work in film (now my wife included) so maybe it's changing too. Hopefully I won;'t have to venture too far in to Amurika.

To keep on track-ish, here's a nice piece from Thomas Friedman. He's often way too conciliatory for my tastes, but I'll cut him some slack.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/o...region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0


----------



## dpasdernick

Soundhound said:


> The little I've seen of Atlanta I actually liked. Some nice, cool neighborhoods, lots of college kids and places they like to eat, etc. I guess Atlanta became a magnet for people in the south who aren't, um, of the Mitch McConnel/Paul Ryan school of human. Has a big gay community, lots of music going on etc. I'm trying to turn it into the NY of the south in my fevered imagination (all apologies to New Orleans, I'd love to live there someday).
> 
> Unfortunately we're not going to be in Atlanta, we're about 30 mins south because that's where my wife's work is. That area has become full of people who work in film (now my wife included) so maybe it's changing too. Hopefully I won;'t have to venture too far in to Amurika.
> 
> To keep on track-ish, here's a nice piece from Thomas Friedman. He's often way too conciliatory for my tastes, but I'll cut him some slack.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/o...region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0



I lived in Lawrenceville, north of Atlanta, for about 3.5 years. Nice cheap houses and a low cost of living. We did not experience "southern hospitality" though. Our neighbors were no where near as warm as the neighbors we had in Oregon and Michigan. I've also lived in Vancouver, Phoenix and Dallas and have to say Atlanta was depressing compared to these other places. I hope you will have a better experience.


----------



## NYC Composer

One way or the other, I'm sure we all wish you a very pleasant experience in or outside of ATL 'Hound!

MEANWHILE-

Hillary is Presumptively Nominated. Historic. Bernie fights on. Trump tries to give a "presidential" sounding speech that includes no apologies, he makes a peepee joke, says he'll take care of African-Americans (this sounded a little worrisome to me) and Repubs are furiously re-thinking their endorsements. Joe Scarborough (TV morning talk show host and former Republican Congressman) almost lost his left nut in a 15 minutes screed telling Repubs to back away from Trump and save the party. Sheesh-NOW they're all figuring it out??


----------



## Baron Greuner

This is exactly what has happened with Cameron, only he made Prime Minister before over half his MPs suddenly realised they'd been usurped by a closet liberal. All hell is about to break loose after this EU election on the 23rd, win, lose or draw.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Repubs are furiously re-thinking their endorsements. Joe Scarborough (TV morning talk show host and former Republican Congressman) almost lost his left nut in a 15 minutes screed telling Repubs to back away from Trump and save the party. Sheesh-NOW they're all figuring it out??


That's how "Never Trump" conservatives are feeling, as well.
I think he's trying to lose, with all the melting down, but he may be trying too early. He has shown he doesn't have a grasp on the delegate process, and that may turn out to bite him in the butt. He's the presumptive nominee, but that can be stripped away from him at the convention if the rules committee votes to delete part of rule 16.


----------



## NYC Composer

I cannot imagine them taking the nomination away from him now. Actually, they're screwed no matter what they do.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I cannot imagine them taking the nomination away from him now. Actually, they're screwed no matter what they do.


Well technically, he doesn't have the nomination yet. The delegates have to vote for him at the convention. There's more and more talk of a revolt from high-profile conservatives.
If the delegates don't revolt, the conservative GOP is gone forever, and in it's place the new nationalist progressive populism of Trump. If the delegates do revolt, Trump's supporters will probably leave the party. But a large # of his voters are people who don't usually vote, independents and Democrats (many of whom who crossed over just for the primaries, and then are voting Dem in the general).


----------



## woodsdenis

Baron Greuner said:


> This is exactly what has happened with Cameron, only he made Prime Minister before over half his MPs suddenly realised they'd been usurped by a closet liberal. All hell is about to break loose after this EU election on the 23rd, win, lose or draw.


Cameron a closet liberal !!!!!!! Explain yourself Baron.LOL


----------



## Soundhound

It would be a very wonderful thing if this did put an end to the modern GOP, the damage the party has done to the country is incalculable. But what would it be replaced by? The radical right wing base? It's a fringe group, but what else is there? The modern GOP has no moderate wing. Trump has no idea what he's doing, of course, so trying to anticipate what he's going to do seems fruitless. McConnel/Paul etc. will all be fighting to hold on to power, so what does that mean they'll do? Seems like a rock and a hard place for them. They hate the nominee, but their voter base loves him. How do these things play out historically?


----------



## woodsdenis

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/the-trump-files-asbestos-mob-conspiracy

You couldn't make it up.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Why would anybody trust Trump? As if he wouldn't use the oval office for personal gain. The man is a master rip off artist.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hundreds-claim-donald-trump-doesn-t-pay-his-bills-n589261

If he didn't offer a class on "how to pay contractors pennies on the dollar" at Trump U, he wasn't sharing all his secrets.


----------



## Soundhound

Thanks Larry! Our offer on a house was accepted. I'm doomed. 



NYC Composer said:


> One way or the other, I'm sure we all wish you a very pleasant experience in or outside of ATL 'Hound!


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> Thanks Larry! Our offer on a house was accepted. I'm doomed.


Hey, real estate prices are great there, and you can actually have space. I live in a cubbyhole.

MEANWHILE, this is a GREAT week for the lib'rals. Probably the best we'll have for the foreseeable future. Multiple endorsements, Bernie probably stepping down after D.C. (?), momentum, blah blah blah.

Sadly, there are many weeks left.


----------



## Soundhound

Elizabeth Warren was breathing fire today. I wonder if she'll be Hillary's running mate? Doesn't make much sense really, assuming the Dems take the Senate she'll run that. Unless she's the first really powerful veep, she'll have more influence running the Senate. Plus would Amurika elect two women?


----------



## Baron Greuner

woodsdenis said:


> Cameron a closet liberal !!!!!!! Explain yourself Baron.LOL


Oh for God sake Denis! I'm not a member of the tory party, or any party for that matter. I just look.

When Cameron beat Davies, he was put in as the leader (not yet PM) by the rank and file country vote because he was seen as moderate and at the same time would be tough on elements that sits well with this type of voter. He has patently shown time and time again that he is incapable of telling any of these people the truth about anything.
His attitude on the EU and the Bank of England is seen as seriously damaging to the tory party and they now mostly think of Cameron as more of a liberal than a tory.
Anyone seeing Cameron wander around the streets with the likes of some of the people from other parties he's been rallying with, is seen as an enormous 'waving a piece of paper' moment' by lifelong tory members. For example, what tory worth his salt, would want to be seen out on the street with the Liberal party leader. A guy that looks nothing more than a second rate secondary modern school teacher. I always sit there trying to catch a glimpse of his elbow patches.

His problem now is not about winning or losing. He will almost certainly win the vote by a fair margin. But that won't save him or Osborne. They've already started to look for a night of the long knives date, sooner rather than later.

It's about how you come across in the politics game. He comes across entirely ass about face and just looks like another puffy faced bastard from Eton. His own party want him out.


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> Elizabeth Warren was breathing fire today. I wonder if she'll be Hillary's running mate? Doesn't make much sense really, assuming the Dems take the Senate she'll run that. Unless she's the first really powerful veep, she'll have more influence running the Senate. Plus would Amurika elect two women?


It looks to me like she wants to be the veep. Interesting. I was hoping for Bernie, a scenario which could very possibly nail this thing shut.


----------



## woodsdenis

Baron Greuner said:


> Oh for God sake Denis! I'm not a member of the tory party, or any party for that matter. I just look.



Just yanking your chain. Like you I like to observe all the sillyness, UK and US politics are far more interesting than Irish I can assure you.


----------



## Soundhound

Right? Me too. Hillary/Bernie take the executive wing. Warren runs the senate, the supreme court is safe from the Alito wing nightmare for a generation. If fortune smiles (broadly, impossibly)the house goes dem too. 

Would be a great shot at starting to undo at least some of the Reagan/neocon damage we've lived under. At the very least it would be relief from the Mary Fallin know nothing fascists. 

I get nervous with all this hope. As our nephew said when we told him when he lived with us after college to not count his chickens when going out looking for jobs: "I have six, chickens, I have 9 chickens, I have..."




NYC Composer said:


> It looks to me like she wants to be the veep. Interesting. I was hoping for Bernie, a scenario which could very possibly nail this thing shut.


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> Right? Me too. Hillary/Bernie take the executive wing. Warren runs the senate, the supreme court is safe from the Alito wing nightmare for a generation. If fortune smiles (broadly, impossibly)the house goes dem too.
> 
> Would be a great shot at starting to undo at least some of the Reagan/neocon damage we've lived under. At the very least it would be relief from the Mary Fallin know nothing fascists.
> 
> I get nervous with all this hope. As our nephew said when we told him when he lived with us after college to not count his chickens when going out looking for jobs: "I have six, chickens, I have 9 chickens, I have..."


The Supreme Court is probably my top priority, which means that winning is my top priority, which means the team that will get the most votes is my top priority etc etc. Pragmatism.


----------



## Baron Greuner

What are the polls showing in the USA right now Larry?


----------



## NYC Composer

Last poll I read, taken before this rather bad week for Trump, had Hillary up
by 3%, which is to say (to me, anyway) essentially even. The next will be interesting.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I think the polls can only widen.


----------



## NYC Composer

One can only hope. 

Meanwhile the Brexit is really climbing up your ass, innit? Your assessment changing any as it gets closer ?


----------



## Baron Greuner

No not at all! In fact I think even if the polls show a narrowing margin, when we get 12 days down the road from here, my assumption is they will be either quite wide or they will be meaningless as in the 2015 General Election.
The issue I have is do they know something everyone else doesn't know on the remain side. Is there a real problem lurking if the country votes to leave? I would like to know in advance if there is and maybe even go down to the bowling green and even cast a vote. They haven't seen me in there for years. If I show up at the bowling green on the 23rd to vote, it'll make the local papers and fear, famine and plague will follow. 

Should I leave the horse at home do you think?


----------



## woodsdenis

http://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-campaign-leads-poll-referendum-2817751-Jun2016/


----------



## Baron Greuner

Denis that's interesting and slightly unbelievable. Besides, 55% wouldn't be enough to cause a brexit imo. Should a brexet occur, will Eire leave the EU?


----------



## woodsdenis

Baron Greuner said:


> Denis that's interesting and slightly unbelievable. Besides, 55% wouldn't be enough to cause a brexit imo. Should a brexet occur, will Eire leave the EU?


No I don't think so, we are net gainers from EU membership and have been from the start. If UK goes basically no one knows how it will affect us here, opinions from the experts range from huge problem to huge benefit. Our biggest trading partner is the UK, so we will be affected by what happens to you either way, a Brexit makes it far more volatile. On the plus side if the UK economy is volatile we can benefit from investment that would have gone to you.


----------



## airflamesred

[QUOTE="woodsdenis, post: 3964709, member: 6189"
If UK goes basically no one knows how it will affect us here, opinions from the experts range from huge problem to huge benefit. 
[/QUOTE]
Continual laughter at the endless array of Politicians wheeled out, even from retirement, to tell me that the price of socks make increase with Brexit. I've no doubt that things will change but the great thing is it will be OUR CHANGE. Now, I know that may sound a bit Disney but that is the spirit that got us where we used to be. And I suspect staying in will trigger a gentle exodus.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/09/will-anyone-on-the-left-stand-up-for-brexit/


----------



## G.R. Baumann

I perceive it like this:

1. There is a massive amount of hubris existing in EU institutions and the disconnect to the real world is more than evident.

2. EU Parliament is a talking shop, on the other hand the EU commission has too much power at their disposal.

The whole of the EU needs to be overhauled in order to become a functioning democratic representation of 500 million Europeans, instead of being an insider club representing exclusively banksters and the undeserved rich.

3. The role of the UK in the EU is rather ridiculous, not subscribing to a common currency, of course, but getting the velvet glove treatment and special rights granted in spades. Why? Well, London is one of the rather important global centers of banksters fraudulant activities. The rest ist pretty much self-explanatory and then there are US Interests....

x x x x

The original idea of the EU never was about aggressive expansion, but some rather meglomaniac politicos saw fit to push for maximum expansion, even ruthlessly colaborating towards a brutal regime change in the Ukraine.

Warmongers are at the steeringwheel again, and a lot of nasty people behind the curtains are pushing towards war.

EU institutions need a massive overhaul in order to work out a heck of a lot of self inflicted problems and bring back some real democracy. The collapse of the EU is already happening on many levels, a BREXIT might or might not speed it up, but staying in the EU will not prevent the collapse at all!


----------



## Baron Greuner

The worst cunt of them all is the Governor of the Bank of England. That is an unforgivable stance to take. Coming straight from Osborne's trail of snot, this ex Goldmans Sachs asshole needs to be told that the GotBE traditionally takes a neutral stance.


----------



## NYC Composer

So Georg, are you saying that GB's exit from the Eurozone simply doesn't matter? Do you think the EU, as it stands, doesn't matter and it would be just as well to let it dissolve?


----------



## Baron Greuner

What a scene in Orlando.

Hillary just went out in the betting.


----------



## woodsdenis

Baron Greuner said:


> What a scene in Orlando.
> .


Sickening.


----------



## NYC Composer

What say you about Orlando, Georg?


----------



## G.R. Baumann

NYC Composer said:


> So Georg, are you saying that GB's exit from the Eurozone simply doesn't matter? Do you think the EU, as it stands, doesn't matter and it would be just as well to let it dissolve?



Nope, that is not what I said, read again:



> The collapse of the EU is already happening on many levels, a BREXIT might or might not speed it up, but staying in the EU will not prevent the collapse at all!


----------



## NYC Composer

G.R. Baumann said:


> Nope, that is not what I said, read again:
> 
> [quote[The collapse of the EU is already happening on many levels, a BREXIT might or might not speed it up, but staying in the EU will not prevent the collapse at all!


[/QUOTE]
Sorry Georg-it seemed to be implied that you're not so crazy about the EU concept. Am I incorrect?


----------



## G.R. Baumann

NYC Composer said:


> What say you about Orlando, Georg?



What would you have me say?

That it is the umpteenth time now that people will start the weapons debate again with no practical results? You can count on that to be exploited in the presidential as well.

Want me to express some fake condolences like politicos now produce in abundance?

Be it a hate crime or of islamic motivation, or both, of course this is a disgusting and sickening act, and we should remind ourselves that we have such victims of state induced and sanctioned terror every single day throughout the world...


----------



## NYC Composer

I sincerely wish you had started and stopped at "this is a disgusting and sickening act", Georg-but of course, this is where we diverge.

No, no fake condolences-sincere ones to the victims and their families, stopping and ending there, no politicization or standing on the podium instructing us all. I wonder if you lose sight of individual suffering when you only see the Great Struggle. Yes, victims everywhere-victims of governments, victims of religious hatred, victims of gender hatred, 
but today I would wear a pink triangle. You understand?

You asked though-so that's what I would have had you say. I'm not angry, just a little disheartened sometimes.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Sorry Georg-it seemed to be implied that you're not so crazy about the EU concept. Am I incorrect?

Hi Larry,

it was Larry or am I wrong? 

I am very much for the initial European concept, but one has to ask the serious question what is left of that? Nice, and Lisbon treaties, the ESM, TTIP, CETA, Militarisation, constant provocations on all levels towards Russia, take your pick.

There is a serious disconnect between the Overlords in EU institutions and the people in Europe, on top a massive amount of hubris. 

Signs of a collapse are multifold, from the Hindustan Times to the Pope, everyone is talking about the danger of Europe's disintegration, rightly so, but I concluded to a speedier term, hence I call this collapse what I witness since 2008. There is total governmental failure evident on many fronts, and ultimately, this will lead to the collapse.

What needs to be done is to overhaul the entire system and implement levels of accountability and transparency, without that, there is no chance in Hell that this construct will surrivive as it stands. Resistance is as strong as can be of course.

In the grand scheme of things, it is a "crisis of condfidence", and there are vested interests at play who profit from such "permanent crisis".


----------



## NYC Composer

Yes, Georg, it's Larry, and the idea that permanent crisis is profitable didn't originate with Orwell, obviously. Those who would profit on doubt and misery have always been with us.

Still, we have our own little internecine war going on in our States, and I do not see it as a positive for us or of the Western world's institutions to be crumbling. I am not an anarchist, and I'm too old to believe that revolutions do much of anything (generally) other than cause more misery.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry knows all of this about the EU Georg because I've mentioned it briefly to him over a 1000 times.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Larry knows all of this about the EU Georg because I've mentioned it briefly to him over a 1000 times.


 Yes Baron, you've been most helpful.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> Yes Baron, you've been most helpful.



Look it at this way. Here's one of those.

If Winston Churchill had not had WWII happen, do you think he would ever have become Prime Minister?


----------



## G.R. Baumann

I am old enough to remember a time where politicians possessed (in no particular order):

- convictions
- natural authority
- intellect
- vision
- empathy
- moral compass
- tolerance
- uncompromised will towards peace
- understood themselves as servants to the people

If I look around in my neck of the woods today, or even globally, well.... cough cough.... no need to elaborate any further I think.

So logically, if such bunch of rather questionable characters is at the helm now for a longer time, I am not astonished of the output and direction all this took, not in the least!


----------



## NYC Composer

It's harder for me, I think. I do believe it was better in the rear view mirror, but not better enough.

@ Baron-no, I don't. Am I mistaken?


----------



## Baron Greuner

I think not.

I also think Hillary might now be in trouble. Things and events change very rapidly. What is funny is watching Cameron shit himself on a daily basis for the next 9 days.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron-Donald Trump has accused the President of these United States of complicity in a vast conspiracy with Islam. I suggest you not worry about whether Hillary is in trouble- instead, worry about whether you and yours are, because God help us all if the American people are stupid enough to elect this low information, swaggering, demagogic and dangerous tyrant wannabe.


----------



## Baron Greuner

You're basing your judgment on emotions. That's fine but I don't go down that road. Ever. 

Things may start to swing back for Hillary, but it's going to take a huge mistake by Trump and/or short memories from the voting public.

Moving to the Brexit vote because I know you're interested, I still cannot see how they are going to let that happen. This would mean the disintegration of the EU and no one should be in any doubt about that. Somehow, that just isn't going to happen because all the money is stacked up in Cameron's favour. Including taxpayers money in the UK apparently.


----------



## passsacaglia

Yo fellas, back again. Just being curious, what do you all wise men think will happen with if don T is the elected mr P:
- military
- relations with x countries / allies
- "predicted" or peoples' assumptions on for examples Hillys "plans" on future invadings/wars on other countries...still thinking of the Rotschild conspiracy and all the "reasons" to go to war and involving in those type of..projects..
- overall situation for the US and the rest of the world? What will or can don T do?

Long shot but, since I'm not suuper updated on the old and new relations and thinking of all the past wars, allies and buddies in the middle-east for example like US alliance with Israel...if someone could just, lay out their thinking and possible scenarios for the future 5-10-20 years.

All best,
Dman

ps what happened to J-dawg? Vacation?  Hope u guys are doin good. Stockholm still shines. ^^


----------



## chimuelo

Trump just wants Obama in the race.
Liberals still believe in polls and love matching someones popularity to another persons lack luster numbers.
Look back at how many politicians LOSE thier seat when Clinton or Obama support them and campaign with them.
Pocahontas and Obama are the very best thing Liberals can do for Trump.


----------



## chimuelo

Swedish food and people were fantastic.
I need a break from shitty vocalists and Marshall stacks.
Tried posting here but couldnt seem to get a connection that would lock in.
Im going back to sleep.


----------



## passsacaglia

chimuelo said:


> Swedish food and people were fantastic.
> I need a break from shitty vocalists and Marshall stacks.
> Tried posting here but couldnt seem to get a connection that would lock in.
> Im going back to sleep.


Swede dreams mate!


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> You're basing your judgment on emotions. That's fine but I don't go down that road. Ever.
> 
> Things may start to swing back for Hillary, but it's going to take a huge mistake by Trump and/or short memories from the voting public.
> 
> Moving to the Brexit vote because I know you're interested, I still cannot see how they are going to let that happen. This would mean the disintegration of the EU and no one should be in any doubt about that. Somehow, that just isn't going to happen because all the money is stacked up in Cameron's favour. Including taxpayers money in the UK apparently.




Your disrespect is unwarranted. I am not a child and last I saw, my testicles were still in place.You rail at Cameron and Angela and others like a madman but it's all unemotional. Mm hmm.


----------



## Baron Greuner

No it's not at all Larry. That's not correct. Don't let my foul language get mixed up with any off that. I'm the same with all of them. I just don't don't like to cloud judgement, albeit my small contribution that makes not a blind bit of difference, when it comes to events. And no, I'm not having a go at you at all about your take on anything btw. I feel slightly piqued at your response.


----------



## Baron Greuner

passsacaglia said:


> - relations with x countries / allies



Don't know about the other requests, but if Trump gets to the White House and Cameron is still in charge here, I would probably tell Cameron to go fuck himself after his anti-Trump appeasement outburst on TV recently.

Hey Jimmy! I'm on my way there in about 6 weeks and driving from the top to the bottom hopefully.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> No it's not at all Larry. That's not correct. Don't let my foul language get mixed up with any off that. I'm the same with all of them. I just don't don't like to cloud judgement, albeit my small contribution that makes not a blind bit of difference, when it comes to events. And no, I'm not having a go at you at all about your take on anything btw. I feel slightly piqued at your response.


Now don't be gettin emotional!

See now Adrian, all well and good anytime you want to tell me I'm dead wrong and give me your take on why-but telling me I'm being emotional, well, that I take as condescending. I'm totally fine with you being your usual condescending self with anyone- anyone except me, of course


----------



## Baron Greuner

Ahhhhh! I seeeeeee. You took offence to nothing. The written word. Whaddya gonna do? If I had been talking to you direct you would never have made that judgement. 
Don't start reading stuff into stuff that isn't there Larry.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, it was what you typed A. C. It weren't monkeys on typewriters.

I always figure to go straight at things. You never have to guess what's on my mind. Sorta like you. Now stop treating me like a hormonal teen and let's be besties again.


----------



## woodsdenis

chimuelo said:


> Trump just wants Obama in the race.
> Liberals still believe in polls and love matching someones popularity to another persons lack luster numbers.
> Look back at how many politicians LOSE thier seat when Clinton or Obama support them and campaign with them.
> Pocahontas and Obama are the very best thing Liberals can do for Trump.


WTF you called a native American, P............... you racist bigot. Enough is enough, your incoherent nonsensical ramblings became boring and irrelevant years ago but there are lines that are never crossed in discourse with actual human beings. You have proved yourself with this rant as a true bottom feeder.

Your glorious leader Drumpf has just banned the Washington Post from covering his rallies, something that another hero of yours, Nixon, didn't even do during Watergate.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yes we are always besties Larry. No worries.

Denis Denis Denis! Jimmy is anything but a racist. Trust me. It's just his way of talking.


----------



## woodsdenis

Baron Greuner said:


> Denis Denis Denis! Jimmy is anything but a racist. Trust me. It's just his way of talking.



Sorry thats an offensive term in the same vein as the N word and all the other words used to describe a particular race in a demeaning way. If he is indeed not a racist withdraw it and apologise, I won't hold my breath.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Baron Greuner said:


> This would mean the disintegration of the EU and no one should be in any doubt about that.



See, that is where I really think the media is doing a great job.

It is a total nonsensical statement that the BREXIT would cause the EU collapse. Or do you have some meat on the bone for such projection?

To give you an idea, the loss in trade with UK if they choose so to leave, for Germany, and that is a significant trade partner would be in the 0.3 percent region..... yawn!


----------



## G.R. Baumann

chimuelo said:


> Pocahontas and Obama are the very best thing Liberals can do for Trump.



Ouch! Pretty darn stupid statement Jimmy. I know you have a way of saying things, and usually I am somewhat amused by your elaborations, but I would draw a line here too!


----------



## G.R. Baumann

chimuelo said:


> Tried posting here but couldnt seem to get a connection that would lock in.
> Im going back to sleep.


That were the online Gods, telling you to take a nap before you say more stupid things. ROFLMAO


----------



## Baron Greuner

Denis I think you're being overly politically correct in an overly politically correct world. Jimmy is not in anyway offensive and I will vouch for that.

Well I can't put any meat on the bone because I'm sitting hear trying to write music. But as a counter question, why are the EU so desperate to keep the UK in the EU? What difference would it make if indeed the UK (impossibly) voted for a Brexit? I don't get it. 
My guess is that there are several countries that would like to get out and the Uk could work for them as a catalyst.


----------



## woodsdenis

Baron Greuner said:


> Denis I think you're being overly politically correct in an overly politically correct world. Jimmy is not in anyway offensive and I will vouch for that.



Lets agree to disagree, he just was offensive and racist. I certainly not an overly politically correct person believe me.
I think any Native American woman would be very offended at being called that. Just because his mentor and hero, the draft dodging, rich kid uses it doesn't make it right.

Why doesn't he go all out and say with the N........ and P......... instead of Obama and Warren, whats the difference here. Racist bigotry is the difference.


----------



## woodsdenis

Baron Greuner said:


> What difference would it make if indeed the UK (impossibly) voted for a Brexit? I don't get it.



Surely the latest polls are heading for an exit, very possible. The biggest issue seems to be immigration ?My opinion is that in the same way as the US is being motivated by fear of the outsider the UK brexiters are using the same argument. Bottom line is that immigrants wether from Mexico/US or EUnationals/UK/Ireland contribute more to the economy than they take out. They do the jobs that Americans/British and Irish won't do. Think about it, the EU immigrants can't be on benefits and also taking your job at the same time. All countries need to have structured immigration procedures, thats separate discussion.

Here is a thought, currently the French have an agreement with the UK to halt non EUs in Calais, technically not an EU issue, but an agreement between the two states. So UK exits with all the anti EU rhetoric which will follow. Why should the French continue to host Calais. If I were them I would just let them go on the next boat to blighty. Has anyone brought this kind of scenario out.

Brexit will not destroy the EU and may very well be in the UK s benefit, BUT here is the real possibility IMO, uncertainty is not good for any economy especially one as fragile as yours. That could potentially be the biggest issue. No one invests in uncertainty or conflict. Wether the UK gets over that period could be the biggest hurdle to jump.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Denis if I was standing on the hustings trying to persuade a group of people to vote out, I wouldn't even mention immigration. I would just tell them how much their monthly insurance premiums are likely to be sometime down the road after they've decided to crash the NHS. Which will happen. It will happen anyway, but they don't need to know that.
The Calais issue is sure one thing, but reports are saying that they, Cameron's side of the government, are keeping a lot back that's bad about the EU, ie coming costs and events that includes The Netherlands for instance, until after the referendum. That's not exactly lying, it's just on a need t know basis.
Uncertainty has taken the markets back to 2010 levels already and sterling is dropping against the mighty dollar. This was of course predictable, or predicted by most pundits.
Some people say if the UK leaves it will take two or more years to recover.
A lot of people would take that, but I don't subscribe to polls.


----------



## woodsdenis

An oldie sketch reimagined Baron


----------



## chimuelo

G.R. Baumann said:


> Ouch! Pretty darn stupid statement Jimmy. I know you have a way of saying things, and usually I am somewhat amused by your elaborations, but I would draw a line here too!



Why draw a line?
If these people wish to be victims so badly they lie about their heritage for some lame ass advantage, they are definitely fair game.
I worked with Native Americans from the Sioux Lakota, Pueblo, Navajo and Shoshone Nation.
They deserve their tax free status, no FICA, nothing.
One fellow was my favorite Carpentero who blew his check every week on hookers,...we named him Chief Sav-A-Ho.
Funny how he doesn't stomp his feet and cry about being offended by micro aggressions invading his safe spaces, etc.etc.

I kind of doubt she used it to keep from paying taxes, but wouldn't surprise me to see yet another "Liberal" who I once admired for taking on Joe Biden with Consumer issues, turn out to be another "Do as I say, not as I do" Liberal.

So many folks seem to have an identity crisis which they must come to grips with.
Rachel Doezel still says she's black, and who knows what Warren has to say.

I do enjoy watching her going after Trump though.
Somebody needs to, since the men are letting the women fight for them, as they obviously have lost their testicles....


----------



## woodsdenis

Baron Greuner said:


> Denis if was standing on the hustings trying to persuade a group of people to vote out, I wouldn't even mention immigration. I would just tell them how much their monthly insurance premiums are likely to be sometime down the road after they've decided to crash the NHS. Which will happen. It will happen anyway, but they don't need to know that.
> The Calais issue is sure one thing, but reports are saying that they, Cameron's side of the government, are keeping a lot back that's bad about the EU, ie coming costs and events that includes The Netherlands for instance, until after the referendum. That's not exactly lying, it's just on a need t know basis.
> Uncertainty has taken the markets back to 2010 levels already and sterling is dropping against the mighty dollar. This was of course predictable, or predicted by most pundits.
> Some people say if the UK leaves it will take two or more years to recover.
> A lot of people would take that, but I don't subscribe to polls.


http://www.irishcentral.com/news/po...ts-200-new-workers-hired-passport-office.html

You see there all coming over her now


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Chim, please don't post ass stuff. I'm not saying that as a moderator, I'm saying it as myself.

Pocahontas. Fuck that.


----------



## NYC Composer

Denis, can I ask you as well not to please not post links without accompanying commentary? Thanks very much.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron, to go back to the issue before my nap- surely you must understand the significance of a presidential candidate implying that a sitting President had a hand in the mass murder of American citizens....that a sitting President is part of a radical Islamic plot to kill Americans. This is not simple political talk. This is like his birtherism, his views on deportation, his views on immigration, an appeal to the basest instincts of the most low information conspiracy theory wing nuts in America. THEY should support him. Anyone else with half a brain should repudiate him.

Re Pocohontas, Jimmy enjoys the kindergarten methods Trump
uses, making naughty names for everyone. Jimmy, I wonder was his name would be for you.


----------



## woodsdenis

NYC Composer said:


> Baron, to go back to the issue before my nap- surely you must understand the significance of a presidential candidate implying that a sitting President had a hand in the mass murder of American citizens....that a sitting President is part of a radical Islamic plot to kill Americans. This is not simple political talk. This is like his birtherism, his views on deportation, his views on immigration, an appeal to the basest instincts of the most low information conspiracy theory wing nuts in America. THEY should support him. Anyone else with half a brain should repudiate him.



and then taking away the press credentials of the Washington Post for reporting it.


----------



## chimuelo

No problemo Nicky B.
Anything for a fellow player.

But the rest of yuze guys, don't get any ideas....


----------



## NYC Composer

(I'm not a fellow player? Interesting...)


----------



## chimuelo

Larry the Mexicans already named me Chimuelo.
It means no teeth.
I was signalling the Crane to swing a 5 yard bucket over and a boom was swinging behind me. Someone yelled to hit the deck and like an idiot I turned around right as it smashed my face.
Lost 14 teeth and had a taped up broken nose with no teeth for a month.
Another one was diaper Jim.
Pretty disgusting story I'll spare you from.
But everyone called me Jaime Chimuelo so long I accepted it.


----------



## chimuelo

We don't go to the Hall and file a grievance or cry about our safe spaces and micro aggressions.
That's for girly men.
Or whacked out Professors and thier 25 year old professional students....


----------



## NYC Composer

Yikes. Tough story.

Yes, Jimmy. You go to the Union hall with more manly complaints, like healthcare, fair wages, etc. everything your conservative heroes want to take away from your present and future Union brothers.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I haven't caught anything on TV today Larry and I've just finished a new TV setup with a sound plinth that's taken forever. So I'm currently watching Gross Point Blank and not any news. No idea what has been said, is being said in the political machinations of anywhere ATM.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Micro aggressions?

Let's get real. It's the language of marginalization and bullying.

Consider the tactics of a bully - or a racist:
1) Name calling.
2) Stereotypes and generalizations.
3) Threats of violence.
4) Acts of violence.

On the Internet, one can only go as far as step 3.

The motivation? To marginalize.

So, why call Warren a name? Yep. To marginalize her. She isn't even here to defend herself.

Why do people complain about PC behavior? Because they want the power to marginalize others. And because they like the power rush of being disrespectful in front of an audience. It can be a dopamine trigger.

I'm glad that Woodsdenis called it out. Too often there are toadies who support the marginalizer and those who remain silent. I've been guilty of the latter.

We should openly and respectfully share our views. But let's stand up against marginalization. We're better than that.


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> Yikes. Tough story.
> 
> Yes, Jimmy. You go to the Union hall with more manly complaints, like healthcare, fair wages, etc. everything your conservative heroes want to take away from your present and future Union brothers.



Yo bro, the wealthy white Liberals are the ones taking away the 6 bucks an hour I paid for 30+ years for my health care.
You been away from the halls too long.
You'll need an Englaise translator, so if you ever attend another meeting I'll hook you up.
Conservatives don't do Jack shit for anyone unless you pay them.
The difference between them and the wealthy white Liberals is they don't lie about relationships with investors.
They're like the slut mistress trying to pretend they're not wealthy and don't owe Bankers and CEOs favors for thier millions. A priceless lot of bottom feeders.

Jeez Jon.
She calls herself an Indian. Trump just gave some street creds for getting in the gutter with him.

I feel sorry for you sensitive white guys.
So fast to be offended for those who aren't offended.
This must have been learned in journalism class or sex ed.


----------



## chimuelo

Let us speak of broken promises and lies, or as most folks call the "issues."

I want Unicorns and Glitter.

I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony.....


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> The difference between them and the wealthy white Liberals



The real difference: they advocate policies that benefit themselves at the expense of others, liberals advocate policies that benefit others at the expense of themselves.


----------



## NYC Composer

You make a lot of comments about sensitivity, Jimmy. I am an excellent reader of subtext. You ought to stand up like a man and say it clear- "you liberals have no balls."

I suggest to you that challenging people you disagree with with testicular deficiency is sort of like constantly making gay jokes- it makes people wonder about your sexual preferences after a while.


----------



## chimuelo

I'm Quadra sexual Larry.
Women, men, plants and animals.

Sex is simply a way to achieve orgasms. Venus Fly Traps are the most incredible plants as it takes an hour for the leaves to close.
Talk about foreplay.

And yes male Liberal politicians are pinche gueys.
Except for Bernie.
Tulsi G. has more balls than the entire Senate.
How's that?


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## NYC Composer

Glad to know you're multi-sexual, Jimmy. You go on with your bad self, achieving orgasm in ANY WAY YOU CHOOSE, with WHOEVER (or in your case apparently whatever) you choose. 

Yanno why I can be so accepting of your heathen multi-sexual self? Because I'm a garden variety heterosexual tolerant liberal, that's why, unlike your crazoid intolerant latent conservative often highly religious brethren. 

"Sensitive." "Emotional". Mmm. Dumb attempts at emasculating rhetoric. The smart play would be to tailor your speech to the intelligence level of the person you're conversing with.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Yanno why I can be so accepting of your heathen multi-sexual self? Because I'm a garden variety heterosexual tolerant liberal, that's why, unlike your crazoid intolerant latent conservative often highly religious brethren.


Give Larry back his account.


----------



## NYC Composer

Just be glad I don't tweet.


----------



## NYC Composer

Heh. I'm in rant mode!


----------



## chimuelo

Hey lets rant.
Im done practicing.
Got 2 new racks ready for the next 8 weeks.
Great drummer, young kid no money.

Built him a 4U rack for hooking up to the snake.
Furman PL Plus II
TC Fireworx
dbx 1086 Quad Comp
Rolls RM65 Hex mixer
2 x D112s 4 x Beta 58s.

As a religious conservative quadra sexual it was the least I could do......


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Yeah well, anyone who is voting for crazed Trump should get his head examined. 

So, there will be considerable amounts of headcases voting for him!

Does that tell you something about Trump. No, not really, but it tells you something about... yeah, that's right!!!!


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Hey lets rant.
> Im done practicing.
> Got 2 new racks ready for the next 8 weeks.
> Great drummer, young kid no money.
> 
> Built him a 4U rack for hooking up to the snake.
> Furman PL Plus II
> TC Fireworx
> dbx 1086 Quad Comp
> Rolls RM65 Hex mixer
> 2 x D112s 4 x Beta 58s.
> 
> As a religious conservative quadra sexual it was the least I could do......


Er....maybe you should get him some drums.....


----------



## chimuelo

My hypocisy only goes so far.
Besides I know what I want sent to the FOH.
I use a 3 voice TC Pitch algo that stretches and widens the pitch like Bonham, followed by a algorhythmic Large Hall followed by a gate.
Inserts for 4 x comps go to kick snare hi toms low toms.
Big ass drum sound.
FOH can ask for any EQ from the little Rolls mixer.


----------



## NYC Composer

PF cool.


----------



## NYC Composer

This article succinctly quotes some of the more scurrilous bullshit that I've heard heard, which is why I brilliantly named this thread "The Year of Trump". He's redefining political rhetoric:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-was-involved-in-the-orlando-shooting/486770/


----------



## Soundhound

What a moron.


----------



## woodsdenis

http://www.thejournal.ie/trump-irish-trip-2824655-Jun2016/?utm_source=facebook_short

Looks like DDD (Draft Dodging Donald) is not coming to Ireland, perhaps the expected protests against this clown changed his mind.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/15/a-twitter-bot-is-beating-trump-fans.html

Even better , showing the stupidity of DDD supporters.


----------



## chimuelo

Thank him later when Clinton releases the Book "My 2nd 8 Year Term" where they discuss how Trump set national policy up for Hillary after defeating the useless GOP mouthpieces.
We have NATO actually paying, UN member nations investing in the foundation, N.Korea condemned by China, Trade Deals exposing elites we would have never seen before...Truly the year of the outsiders.

Millions of Americans involved in supporting Bernie that would have never messed with a primary effort.
Having Bernie and Trump in the race made it easy for Obama to bury the FBI criminal investigation too.

I am actually looking forward to these brilliant people showing me phase 2.
Proof will be Trump freaking out making him appear more unstable than he already has.
A stroke of genius by Team Clinton....

DJT will make a fortune for him and his family.
Lawsuit dismissed, FBI investigation buried,...true brilliance worthy of the Oval Office.

The ultimate good cop/bad cop game..


----------



## woodsdenis

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/15/stephen-colbert-draws-swastika-donald-trump

Even in jest the truth will come out .


----------



## chimuelo

From 1135 to 2 am is the best time to relax and be entertained.
Speaking of entertainment, Trump just started speaking somewhere and was talking about terrorism and said "Belgium.........A beautiful city".....

This will be great material for tonight, I know some creative writers caught that probably.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ha!

Meanwhile, where is the Baron of Brexit??


----------



## chimuelo

I think I saw him at Heathrow last week tipping a Pint in between handing out flyers to stay in the EU...


----------



## NYC Composer

Probably still piqued. So emotional.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Perhaps almost unbelievably I'm sitting here watching Rambo, a total anathema, arguably one of the most gratuitously violently pointless films ever made, with one of the best action scores ever written.

The gas station just blew up.

I dont drink beer Jimmy.


----------



## NYC Composer

Got to be a whiskey man.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Definitely a whiskey man when I drink which is rare. Old fashions. Good drink on a hot day.

I once had to take a U Boat Captain to Heathrow. That was a whiskey night. I was driving him in the car and he went off to sleep because he was getting old I guess. Anyway, suddenly, he woke up shouting Fock! Fock! Fock!
I thought Christ, what is it??! Freaked the shit out of me.

Apparently he was dreaming he was back on the U Boat and was shouting Fog Fog Fog, but weirdly in English.

True story.


----------



## NYC Composer

Why would you be driving a U-Boat captain?? (he queried)


----------



## Soundhound

It really is looking like the republicans might be working toward deciding to take the nomination from Trump at the convention. They brought this on themselves of course. By fostering hate, bigotry and fear in their base, while destroying the middle class, they created a frankenstein they can't control and an angry mob ready and willing to fall for a fascistic demagogue. This is going to destroy Trump's brand of course, he will be a pariah, but that's of no matter to anyone but his sorry ass. What's important is what's going to happen to the GOP. I can't see them staying with him for the duration. Unless they're even more craven and amoral than I already think they are.


----------



## chimuelo

But we are all racists.
I bet your wife is white like you.
That's racism.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, Jimmy, how you do go on with your ironic self. Let me guess- it would also be racist if she were dark skinned, right?

(And by the way, wife talk? What's next, playing the dozens? Look that up if it's unfamiliar to ya)


----------



## chimuelo

Racial deconstruction.
We keep screwing our own kind we are racists.
Sicily is one of the true projects of racial deconstruction.
Etruscan, Italians, Greeks the Moors.
My uncle frank has blue eyes and an afro. Handsome devil too.
Not too dark not too Caspery, just the right blend.
And he hates everyone.


----------



## Soundhound

Actually she's black. 



chimuelo said:


> But we are all racists.
> I bet your wife is white like you.
> That's racism.


----------



## chimuelo

Nah she ain't...


----------



## Soundhound

For someone who says such inane shite all the time, you're pretty quick on the uptake. I was trying to pull your chain, since you like to wave it around so much. She's a white girl from the south, who married a jewish guy from the north. So that makes me racist, and she's not? I guess?

Regardless, your (as always reductive and beside the point) point is... what? Racism is an age old impulse and so we should just... go with it. Sure, why evolve? So much work! We should keep our appendixes (pl?) while we're at it too. Never know when we might need them.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hahahaha! So Jimmy, you are a sexually guided missile attempting to impregnate females of other races? DJT would love you long time!

You can't get this sort of entertainment anywhere else.


----------



## chimuelo

The exact opposite.
Fuck like minks and raise multi racial rug rats.
Then Liberals will have to think of some other nonsense to stand for.


----------



## chimuelo

Larry did you marry a Shagetz too?


----------



## Soundhound

Shagetz is male, Jimmy. Just in case you find yourself in a relevant situation. Nice jewish boys marry shiksas. (swedish whenever possible).

And yes, as Richard Pryor (or Lenny Bruce or George Carlin said) we need to just keeping screwing each other (in the good sense) until there is no more black or white!


----------



## NYC Composer

Irish Catholic! She converted to my tribe, too. Can't imagine for the life of me why I wanted her to.

And you, Jaime Chimuelo? Did you spread your seed amongst the rainbow?


----------



## chimuelo

Indeed.
First x was a full german farmers daughter.
So whitened up things to avoid being too dark.

2Nd x was an Indian Mexican.
Big tall dark beauty with huge smackers.
Her indian name was "fux with lips" but I called her by her American racist name Shelly.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm sure these relationships ended when you realized she would've had more work to do to achieve your goal.


----------



## Soundhound

Not to be a killjoy or anything (though that's always it's own fun) but Trump has to be stopped. Did you read about his rally in Greensboro? Just saw this tweet thread, or whatever the hell the kids call it:

https://storify.com/case_face/a-trump-rally-in-greensboro-anger-in-here-is-palpa


----------



## chimuelo

We are a big happy familia still.
I have been to several events where my x's sit together and make fun of me.
When relationships based on physical attractions turn into children they last until the kids are old enough to kick out.
This is why my youngest is 2 years older than my grandson from the first.
I miss having kids though.
I was thinking of adopting this 15 year old Korean girl.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump will stop himself. At least that was the original plan.
Im convinced him and Bill worked this out way back when.


----------



## chimuelo

I was trying to hook Larry with the Shagetz thing but he didnt bite.
My Yiddish grandmother use to teach me the difference between German Yiddish Latin and English.
Finding commonalities in a educationally entertaining way.
You ever been to a funeral where Jews Wops and Beaners came together?
Me niether because there wrre fights at funerals weddings. Nobody wore their best suits.
Now theyre all old crabby bastards that laugh about the way things use to be.


----------



## NYC Composer

Them people at the rally, Jimmy- your peeps! Not one of them
politically correct!


----------



## Soundhound

old and crabby seem to have a way of finding each other. As I am discovering at an accelerating rate.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh and my family were honorary Italians, so yeah , they were always at our weddings and Bar Mitzvahs and we were always at their weddings and christenings and suchlike.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Soundhound said:


> old and crabby seem to have a way of finding each other. As I am discovering at an accelerating rate.


Was thinking exactly the same.

 Yeah!!!!


----------



## G.R. Baumann

As for Trump, he stated in a speech in Atlanta, that Belgium is a wonderfull city!

That full-time Idiot probably thinks that "Al Aska" is a radio moderator from Kenntucky.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm well over 100 years old myself!


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> Why would you be driving a U-Boat captain?? (he queried)


Oh God it's an enormously long story and involved a maritime issue.

But it was great because I had to spend quite a bit of time with the Captain and learnt an enormous amount about life on a U Boat and Wolf Packs etc. Fantastic fun, funny and very interesting. This is 1981.


----------



## NYC Composer

Gosh, WW2 must have been quite a lark.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yes I believe it was.

All those Hollywood movies making a fortune. Fantastic!


----------



## NYC Composer

I could take that post in a very serious way, but it's too horrifying to contemplate. Probably my emotional overreaction to exterminated Jews. I really must adopt your unemotional outlook.


----------



## chimuelo

G.R. Baumann said:


> As for Trump, he stated in a speech in Atlanta, that Belgium is a wonderfull city!
> 
> That full-time Idiot probably thinks that "Al Aska" is a radio moderator from Kenntucky.



I noticed that too......
But last night the real news like Steve Colbert and Jimmy Fallon made no mention of it and they have brilliant writers who can etch in skits from the latest events.
Maybe tonight.
Cracked me up though.
He says terrorism..............France, Belgium....a beautiful city....been there many times.


----------



## chimuelo

NEW LIBRARY...!!!

Hollywood TRUMPets.
DJTs first entry into the market.
Combining sample modelling and sampling.
Pro version is 24bit with 6 mic tree.
Loser version 16 bit and fuck the mics.

Instructional vidoes at TRUMP University.
Bill Clinton as the Chancellor.
Videos are free for Pro users.
Losers must pay.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I just saw that one the female Labour MPs in West Yorkshire has been shot 3 times and stabbed in the street. Didn't survive.


----------



## woodsdenis

Baron Greuner said:


> I just saw that one the female Labour MPs in West Yorkshire has been shot 3 times and stabbed in the street. Didn't survive.


Very sad , not in anyway Isis related. They have the killer in custody. Hopefully not motivated by the Brexit issue.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-36550304


----------



## Soundhound

Horrible.


----------



## woodsdenis

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...mateen-isis-pulse-nightclub-attack?CMP=twt_gu So no link found between Orlando shooter and ISIS. What do you say now Drumpf.


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## NYC Composer

Trump today-suggesting he may still run as an independent if the party isn't nicer to him. Breaking the mold on a daily basis. He is my pick for Time Magazine's Man of the Year. Ummm...is there still a Time Magazine?

I'm thinking of expanding this thread into a newspaper- "The Daily Trump." I think it'll fly.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Trump today-suggesting he may still run as an independent if the party isn't nicer to him. Breaking the mold on a daily basis. He is my pick for Time Magazine's Man of the Year. Ummm...is there still a Time Magazine?
> 
> I'm thinking of expanding this thread into a newspaper- "The Daily Trump." I think it'll fly.


You can sell it on the rack right next to the National Enquirer so that his supporters can get all the news they need right there together.


----------



## chimuelo

Nice headlines coming soon...

Liberals and Conservatives Call For Gun Control...
Trump strikes a deal with the NRA.
Legislation passes.....

Bernie and Trump are showing these useless puds how business gets done in the real world.
Hillary meanwhile has another BoTox injection as 3 seamstresses and Tailors take measurements.


----------



## chimuelo

Brexit smells like Y2K...


----------



## Baron Greuner

Brexit smells like a done deal.


----------



## Baron Greuner

woodsdenis said:


> Very sad , not in anyway Isis related.


I'm not exactly sure what his motive was with the the labour MP. I suspect it was a sort of Brevik incident. 
What I don't understand either, is the amount of coverage this is getting on television.


----------



## woodsdenis

Baron Greuner said:


> I'm not exactly sure what his motive was with the the labour MP. I suspect it was a sort of Brevik incident.
> What I don't understand either, is the amount of coverage this is getting on television.



One report I saw today said he had mental health issues (no shit sherlock) but also had ties to a far right American Nazi Group, the neo-Nazi National Alliance from whom he bought a book that included ‘how to build a pistol’.

So here we have a situation in which the idiot Trump would claim that he was a terrorist who had been groomed and radicalised by this group, there fore any white, American christians should be banned from the UK.

Reality is he is an extreme right wing nutter who had access to a gun.


----------



## Baron Greuner

MPs average about 1 or 2 death threats a week. This came as no surprise or shock to me. Yes, you can certainly identify with personal matters etc. But a guy was blown up in a gas explosion while working in a cave today for instance. No coverage at all. 
I guess it's dependent a lot of the time on TV companies agendas.


----------



## Soundhound

When someone is killed for what could be political reasons, everyone is interested, and for very good reason. It's the opposite of the trumped up (small or big L) viewer grabbing entertainment that often fills 'news' programs. Political assassination is important news that affects everyone. In this case it most likely seems to be just another insane person with a gun, but that was not at all clear at first.


----------



## chimuelo

Lee Harvey Oswalds are everywhere.
Just crazy folks buying weapons.
He actually ushered in the Deep State folks, all by himself with that magic bullet.
Even if it is a political assassination media has been instructed to run with the proper narrative.
After Brexit some new evidence will surface.
Right wing Muslim?
Guardian Sheep are an amazing flock of hooved creatures.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yes people with guns can be insane. So can politicians. This particular politician had been an MP for 1 year.

One of the many issues that sane people have with politicians is they get voted in and then reveal their personal agendas after the event. In this case, it sort of looks like filling the place up with Syrians and just about anyone else from around the planet. This, in an area that was always top of the list to kick off. Ergo, any nutcase that finds this kind of attitude as a bridge too far, _as far as they are concerned_, takes matters into their own hands.
The female senator in the USA (Colorado?) a few years ago immediately springs to mind and of course the incident in Norway.

What always amazes me about it all, is the shock and horror everyone then exhibits. Read history books would be my advice, then you'll never be shocked by anything again.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> Lee Harvey Oswalds are everywhere.
> Just crazy folks buying weapons.
> He actually ushered in the Deep State folks, all by himself with that magic bullet.
> Even if it is a political assassination media has been instructed to run with the proper narrative.
> After Brexit some new evidence will surface.
> Right wing Muslim?
> Guardian Sheep are an amazing flock of hooved creatures.




I don't think he bought the weapon in this case Jimmy. May have, allegedly, made it.

After the Brexit vote, and the UK remains in the EU, they will then reveal the bad news that they have held back. May not be a great time to invest in markets atm, unless you've already exchanged all your currency into dollars or swiss francs.
Then you will see some very quick and serious 'political assassinations'.


----------



## chimuelo

If things get bad I buy a few Kilos and sell teenths every time I need extra cash.
At the border dogs and customs agents thoroughly check people.
But we just pay the federales and coyote thier cut of the action, then get a call in Yuma at the swimming pool that lunch is at 11am.
Go get "lunch" and head back home.


----------



## Baron Greuner

3:10 to Yuma Jimmy?


----------



## chimuelo

Simone essay.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Gabby Giffords was killed in Arizona, at a town hall style meeting she was hosting.


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> Gabby Giffords was killed in Arizona, at a town hall style meeting she was hosting.



That's what I get for not reading the NYTimes.
I read about how she survived and was misinformed....


----------



## NYC Composer

Idiot (me). SHOT in Arizona. Thanks for the pickup. I was correcting ""Colorado" and I done kilt her.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Idiot (me). SHOT in Arizona. Thanks for the pickup. I was correcting ""Colorado" and I done kilt her.


Buckup, Youngun. We all mosey on down to the Goofup Saloon every once-in-awhile.


----------



## NYC Composer

Murder=big goof-up.


----------



## Soundhound

Attempted murder? I'm here to help.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Redrum.

Some might think that she was killed and replaced with a bot that wants to take away their guns.


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't believe Gabby was ever anti-gun, but she did believe in intelligent gun control.


----------



## chimuelo

Well we can always hope the multi millionaire Liberals get a super majority again.
Taxes, health care, immigration, gun control, Guantanamo were overlooked last time when nobody was there to stop them.
But we got Citizens United.
ACA ...


----------



## chimuelo

Oops
I forgot minimum wage and wealth inequality...


----------



## Soundhound

What doesn't make sense is why you won't cop to being right wing? The chicks don't dig it? 



chimuelo said:


> Well we can always hope the multi millionaire Liberals get a super majority again.
> Taxes, health care, immigration, gun control, Guantanamo were overlooked last time when nobody was there to stop them.
> But we got Citizens United.
> ACA ...


----------



## chimuelo

Yuze guys are the wings.
I think the 2 minority partys are jive ass lawyers representing investors.
You seem to believe in Liberal Santas.

30 + years in Nevada where real progressives live.
The other fake progressives never pass jack shit because their wealthy investors instruct them on whats allowed.

But I heard KFC has a special all month called the Hillary Deluxe.
Reasonably priced.
Choice of original or crispy.

2 left wings and 2 big thighs.....

Ankyu.


----------



## Soundhound

Don't forget to tip your hostess, I'll be here all week...

Nah, your obsession with Liberal this, Liberal that, Liberal as a dirty word, such a Reaganite fetish. Nanny state... I could go on. And on and on and on... but it's time to begin meditating in preparation for game 7 Sunday night....


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy already copped to being a conservative. Leave Jimmy Alone!!! :::sob:::


----------



## NYC Composer

The best thing- Jimmy can't vote for Trump, because he knows Trump's a dingbat. He just likes the show and the shakeup.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> The best thing- Jimmy can't vote for Trump, because he knows Trump's a dingbat. He just likes the show and the shakeup.


Larry, you still think Trump gets the nomination at the convention? A lot of open talk of revolt going on amongst the delegates and prominent Republicans.


----------



## NYC Composer

I simply can't imagine it any other way for two reasons. First, alienating 10-14 million rabid fans/voters? Automatic loss. Also? He'd run as an Independent.


----------



## Soundhound

He did? I got my confession and I wasn't even in the room? I miss all the fun.



NYC Composer said:


> Jimmy already copped to being a conservative. Leave Jimmy Alone!!! :::sob:::


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I simply can't imagine it any other way for two reasons. First, alienating 10-14 million rabid fans/voters?



I'm not so sure there were 10-14 million rabid fans/voters. I've read exit polls in which many voters have said they were Dems, voting for Trump in the primary but going back to Dem in the general. 
Aside from that, there are a LOT more Repubs who voted against Trump in the primaries than those who voted for him. The problem is that the conservative vote was spread out between Cruz, Rubio, Carson, Walker, and Paul. If those voters, the true base of the GOP, had early on consolidated their vote for just one of these guys, Trump would have lost.



NYC Composer said:


> Automatic loss.



If he is the nom, he is going to lose, no doubt about it. Trump is melting down more and more every day. 
The Never Trump movement is stronger than ever now because of it.
More and more prominent Republicans are now saying they will not support him.
Paul Ryan yesterday said that he's not asking any delegates to vote against their conscience.
When you can't even garner support from most party leaders, you're doomed.

Those who advocate a delegate revolt see it as necessary to save the GOP from the nationalist populists. They know that Donald Trump will be the death of the GOP as we know it.

And in so doing, they increase their chances of the down-ballot conservatives winning.



NYC Composer said:


> Also? He'd run as an Independent.


That's his bluff, but where will he get the big money donors if the GOP donors are backing someone else?

And even if he does, and it splits the Republican vote, the outcome would be no worse than if he were the GOP nom: a landslide of a loss.


----------



## chimuelo

Polls mean nothing.
Foreign Governments, multi national corporations and billionaires have selected your candidate.
Down payments started in 2009 and continue.
This race is over.
But should be some great entertainment for the next 18 weeks.


----------



## Baron Greuner

This MP has now had more coverage on TV than when Winston Churchill died, but what has now become really disgusting, is the way that Sky TV is using it as a weapon against the Brexit out campaign. It's bad enough to get gunned down and then knifed in the street, but SKY television has now hit new low levels and should be stopped.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Today, I saw a "Happy Father's Day" Tweet from one of his supporters, extolling him as "the Ultimate Father Figure". No, I'm not kidding. I didn't know orange Koolaid could have that serious a side effect.


----------



## Soundhound

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/o...ar-mongering-lost-its-appeal.html?ref=opinion


----------



## Soundhound

http://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/06/uk-mp-jo-cox-attacked/487316/


----------



## NYC Composer

Hound, could ya please not post links without comment? Thanks.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> This MP has now had more coverage on TV than when Winston Churchill died, but what has now become really disgusting, is the way that Sky TV is using it as a weapon against the Brexit out campaign. It's bad enough to get gunned down and then knifed in the street, but SKY television has now hit new low levels and should be stopped.


Remind me- was Churchill assassinated, butchered by a madman? Was he an attractive young woman with two pre school children?

You see Baron, all these emotional people are thinking with their hearts . Shame on them.


----------



## Soundhound

sure, but why?



NYC Composer said:


> Hound, could ya please not post links without comment? Thanks.


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> sure, but why?


This is just a personal thing, but it's so easy to say "I'll just let the link speak for me" that people start slinging links at each other rather than saying why the link matters or why they posted them.

Can't make you comply obviously, just a request.


----------



## Soundhound

I see what you're saying. Hadn't thought about it like that. I thought the two pieces spoke well for themselves, but as you say it can certainly looking like just throwing stuff up there thoughtlessly. I'd actually meant to add another link to the first I put up. Getting late here (and drained from the nba finals game 7, I put in a lot of miles on the carpet) I'll add the thoughts I had tomorrow.


----------



## NYC Composer

Thanks, bud! Much appreciated.


----------



## NYC Composer

* THE DAILY TRUMP
*
Hold the presses folks!

Today's Trump is a small matter of "you can do it but you can't say it!"

Once again, Trump has broken the mold, having declared that what we need in the U.S. is serious racial profiling. Nope, he didn't just think it, nope. As with so many things, there's no filter between his brain and his mouth so he just went for it. More racial profiling.

Now we all know that we ARE racially profiling in this country. FBI, Homeland Security, Immigration et al, but really, you're supposed to be quiet about it and deny, deny, deny. Not DJT! He's making friends with ethic minorities all across this great land of ours. 

I say- GO for it, sir! Don't go halfway, go Full Straight Jackst. Your next reality show beckons- *TRUMP DYNASTY.*


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I say- GO for it, sir! Don't go halfway, go Full Straight Jackst. Your next reality show beckons- *TRUMP DYNASTY.*


In my NetFlix queue, that would be right there behind Honey Boo Boo!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hey Mike is Netflix any good? I'm seriously thinking about getting it.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> Hey Mike is Netflix any good? I'm seriously thinking about getting it.


I love it. It's great for watching past seasons. I'm currently rewatching Person Of Interest, Revenge, Crossing Jordan, Good Luck Charlie, Alias, Flashpoint, Andy Griffith Show, Columbo, Heartland...you name it, it's got it. The streaming-only option isn't great for movies, but I don't watch a lot of movies anyway.
It and Hulu are a 1-2 punch, because Hulu is current episodes. That's so good, when my cable contract is up this year, I think I'll drop it.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm ashamed to say I have music running on Honey Booboo.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I'm ashamed to say I have music running on Honey Booboo.


No need to be shamed. It's honest work. Honey Boo Boo's mom and dad, now they have reason to be ashamed.


----------



## woodsdenis

If only.


----------



## chimuelo

Farakhan blasted out a few months ago just once, that Trump would roll back the successes we've had over the years.
Glad to know, since he hated white devils for decades.
But right about the same time that I said I'd had enough, they seem to have drawn the same conclusion.

You can see them write articles about Conservatives they like, and Nicki Haley is one of them.
Even a couple of Veterans in Congress.
But now there's serious condemnation from many black leaders, and the ones who support Trump they are getting their pictures all over that paper.

This is exactly what Trump doesn't hear or see much.
But Obama and Lynch know all too well that large urban areas are a powder keg.
I think this is why Obama tries to avoid angering people by editing the information and not talking about radical Islam.

Trump would cause a hell of a lot of anger in these impoverished neighborhoods.
I think we are going to see that anyway in due time.
But with Trump it's guaranteed, and it will happen quickly.

So a Landslide for Clinton most likely, unless anti Trump groups become violent.
Then his ranks will swell.
Considering the shit he keeps stirring up, I have faith the folks are blowing it off.
Besides half of Trumps supporters just want the system to crash and burn.
Once it's close to November they'll just stay home me thinks.

I got a kick out scaring my brotha' as we were driving to get Gorilla Tape.
I yelled Trump in 2016 really loud in the parking lot and ducked, boy he was pissed...


----------



## Soundhound

They? Who is they?


----------



## chimuelo

Sorry this damn phone shit sucks.
I lost the 1st paragraph.

I get the Final Call newspaper from the Muslim Bothers that hang on the corners where I have my rehearsal rig.
I was commenting about the papers tolerance for Trump.
Up until recently.

This edition was the June Edition.
Lots of great stuff about Ali.


----------



## NYC Composer

woodsdenis said:


> If only.


Hahahaha! Excellent and so apropos for us sounddoggies.


----------



## NYC Composer

"White devils". Gosh, it's been a while. Louis was always such an enigma, however I've always thought that throwing a little Anti-Semitism into the mix along with the anti-white rhetoric helped him. It seems best to hate multiple foes....why stop at white Christians.

Speaking of which, I'm tired of the ISIS, "Islamic State" bullshit. Why should we call them what they want? I propose we call them *BBMP*, for *B*loody *B*and of *M*urderous *P*irates, since that's what they are. They murder, rape women, take plunder...what are they if not pirates out in the desert?

*BBMP*.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I just saw some ghastly spotty youth British national tried to grab a policeman's gun and shoot the Trump at a rally. Apparently planned it for a year. 
Any chance of blowing this fucking guys head off? Don't want him back thanks.


----------



## NYC Composer

Good lord. We certainly don't want him. Extradite, sez I!

Of course, when he arrives, you could always take your best shot. So to speak.

Hey, where'd he get the gun, anyway? I must explore...


----------



## Baron Greuner

He didn't get the gun. He tried to take the gun from a police officer. Shoot the silly c**t I say. Or take him out and use him for fish bait. Or drop him out of a plane. Anything but here.

I must also explore what they mean by British National. That's always as dodgy politically correct way of Sky saying he might actually not be British at all. Either way shoot the bastard.


----------



## NYC Composer

Very inefficient. Doesn't speak well for your assassins.


----------



## Baron Greuner

What some 20 year old spotty urchin? He couldn't assassinate a fucking gnat by the looks of. You'll see what I mean soon enough on TV. Could be a big story in the making.

According to CNN he's called sanford and is not a 20 year old spotty moron, but in fact a 19 year old spotty moron.


----------



## NYC Composer

In any case, it's a vast relief to me that he didn't manage to shoot the Donald. I don't approve of assassination-I prefer that the American people vote him to death.


----------



## Baron Greuner

He actually looks like he is British and has been an illegal immigrant for around 18 months in the USA which is a large source of embarrassment to anyone in England that isn't a similar moron.

This of course reminds one of June 28th 1914 when a similar 19 year old spotty faced moron did a similar thing only unfortunately successfully.


----------



## NYC Composer

The brains of 19 year old males are not fully developed. 14-25 (give or take)very dangerous.


----------



## chimuelo

Stupid kid.
If you want to kill somebody you do it in California in hopes of a whacko sympathetic judge.
He'll be prosecuted by Rogers.
Guy has had offers from the biggest Law Firms but is a Rudy Guilliani type of public servant.
Put OJ away for strong armed robbery.
This kid is toast. Extra Crispy.

Worth noticing too. Rally for Trump in Nevada had huge Hispanic turnout and support.
This crowd was nothing like the turnouts before.

Doubt he even noticed or cared.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, some of the shit you say totally brightens my day, no joke. I laughed out loud at the huge Hispanic turnout.

The Trumpster says he'll carry the Hispanic vote. He loves Hispanics!!

What percentage of the national Hispanic vote do you think he'll get? I feel another wager of samples coming on.


----------



## NYC Composer

Btw- Rudy's consulting firm brings him mass millions. If what you mean is that Rogers is good at building a power base and consolidating it, yep, he's like Rudy.


----------



## chimuelo

Exactly.
No need to work for others.
Your public service gets your reputation which is basically setting yourself up for later once you've served the public.
Barney Frank has a great job on Wall Street now.
Such an esteemed career as an anti Wall Street guy pays well.
Speaking of being rewarded by Wall Street,..........seems Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley will decide Clinton's VP pick.
Again voters take a back seat to investors.


----------



## chimuelo

Read closer Larry...he HAD a huge turnout earlier in the Primary.
I pointed out what stenographers didn't notice.
Hispanic turnout is gone now.
He had the Hispanic voters in Nevada. Since his recent rants the AFL-CIO jumped ship.
Hispanics were his ticket.
He threw that constituency away.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> This kid is toast. Extra Crispy.



Good. See to it that he goes into a cell block with a bunch of right wing hard core homosexuals. What do I pay you for!


----------



## chimuelo

There's no left right in the joint.
It's broken down to race.
But a new young Brit would make Aryan Brotherhood guys offer protection in return for wearing a dress.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Read closer Larry...he HAD a huge turnout earlier in the Primary.
> I pointed out what stenographers didn't notice.
> Hispanic turnout is gone now.
> He had the Hispanic voters in Nevada. Since his recent rants the AFL-CIO jumped ship.
> Hispanics were his ticket.
> He threw that constituency away.


Sorry Jimmy, thought there was another Nevada rally you were referring to. I knew about the first one.

Jeez. Buzzkill.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Good. See to it that he goes into a cell block with a bunch of right wing hard core homosexuals. What do I pay you for!


there are no hardcore right wing homosexuals-well, none that are out, anyway.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jeez. Buzzkill.[/QUOTE]


chimuelo said:


> Exactly.
> No need to work for others.
> Your public service gets your reputation which is basically setting yourself up for later once you've served the public.
> Barney Frank has a great job on Wall Street now.
> Such an esteemed career as an anti Wall Street guy pays well.
> Speaking of being rewarded by Wall Street,..........seems Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley will decide Clinton's VP pick.
> Again voters take a back seat to investors.



I don't disagree- but I didn't refer to anyone as a "Barney Frank sort of public servant."


----------



## chimuelo

He served, and the industry he fought against are his buddies now.
Liberal public service is always different from non political military or real public service though.

This race is over though.
It's basically a vote for big government globalism versus a loud mouth who actually had the race won.
But couldn't close the deal.
Don't need a poll to tell me.
I see hundreds of people every week.
Go from a management meeting in Bell Meade to an urban ghetto in the same week.
3 continents already before summertime.
A new record for me.
Why I'm so bad, mules have kicked me,
Couldn't bruise my hide.
Rattlesnakes bite me,
Then crawled off and died.
After gigs I sign my own autograph book.
Never pass a mirror without taking a 2nd look.


----------



## chimuelo

Speaker Haster is.
That POS had the balls to grill Clinton about getting his dog walked, an American male pass time.
Knowing the whole time he was an Athenian boy lover.
Be proud of your preferences.
I was attacked while fishing by a Sheep, but didn't realize she wanted to mate.
Dried off and had a great evening with her.


----------



## NYC Composer

Rudy wasn't a liberal. Raked in the dough though.

Back to Trump. He's unfit. Say it with me, Jimmy, you know it's true.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> there are no hardcore right wing homosexuals-well, none that are out, anyway.


Milo Yiannopolous is not only right-wing, he also supports Trump. And he's definitely not the only, unless you think that entire groups of people like the Gay Tea Party either don't know they're not gay or don't know they're not conservative.


----------



## chimuelo

Hes the crazy gangster you want to let loose when diplomacy fails.
Definately not Presidential.
Got tired of his shit a long time ago but he wss destroying those I despise so I kept quiet.

I still hope he further exposes the globalists who pretend they are concerned about people here.

But he wont get my vote.


----------



## NYC Composer

@Jimmy- yeah, I knew you liked the destructive campaign.

@michael-I was mostly joking, but I dunno Milo nor the GTP. they got a big membership? (Hmm, that sounds bad). I do give evangelicals who have stopped trying to "pray away the gay" credit for change and growth.

Still, how do you think the gay community of voters will roll in the general-90% Hillary? 85?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> @Jimmy- yeah, I knew you liked the destructive campaign.
> 
> @michael-I was mostly joking, but I dunno Milo nor the GTP. they got a big membership? (Hmm, that sounds bad). I do give evangelicals who have stopped trying to "pray away the gay" credit for change and growth.
> 
> Still, how do you think the gay community of voters will roll in the general-90% Hillary? 85?


I think the gay community will vote overwhelmingly for the Democrats, no matter who the Repub nominee turns out to be. But I couldn't even fathom a specific percentage.
I do think that a moderate like Kasich would draw in more gay voters than Trump, Cruz or Rubio.


----------



## Soundhound

Funny how the radical right only notices when a right winger is the object of violence.


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> Funny how the radical right only notices when a right winger is the object of violence.


I don't think that's true. What I do think is that they blame the true source of all evil- the Kenyan Muslim in the White House.


----------



## Soundhound

I didn't hear any complaints from those quarters when that British MP was gunned down.

On another, though related front, I'm glad to see Warren Burger's critique on the insane, deadly rewriting of the second amendment making the rounds again. I wonder if republicans are going to finally get some blowback this fall for being NRA lapdogs, post Orlando? Maybe wishful thinking...


----------



## chimuelo

The Potomac 2 Step.
Let's have a dishonest conversation about "Assault" Rifles that are NOT Assault Rifles.
Both groups of dickbags should shut thier faces until the families and victims get time to heal.

The real conversation should be, these are wanna bee Rambo rifles, they have not been converted YET, but by changing the receivers and modifying a pin ARE deadly weapons which can be called M16s.

So until the real danger is identified this decades old dog and pony show has only 1 advantage I can see.

Pensions for our wealthy multimillionaire public servants are based on investments in gun and ammo manufacturing.
Give a speech, check the pension.
How many times will these Jack offs play thier games before people call them out on it?

Divest the pensions you prosper from first, then I might listen to these self serving douche bags.

The NRA makes fools of these dip shots every time there's a tragedy.

If guns were so important to these clowns, why is it when we gave these bums a super majority they did NOTHING....?

Losers.
That's why we got rid of them.
McConnell Ryan and the rest of these bums are next.


----------



## NYC Composer

...and after they are gone, who will do something?


----------



## chimuelo

Mexicans.


----------



## NYC Composer

Of course. 

(Huh?)


----------



## chimuelo

Executive Orders.
Why just use them for restrooms or for bailing out wealthy white folks at Solyndra?

Why not halt all ammo production for .223.
Stop the sales of concealed weapons and non hunting weapons.

Fundraising and pension spiking is all I ever see from these dickless academics.

100,000,000 weapons sold during this administration.
The pensions look great.

Thats the Obama legacy.
Or was it the awesome consolidation of Protection rackets called the ACA.

Give me four more years of these losers, but I do hope the Clintons finally become billionaires serving us....


----------



## NYC Composer

Well of course when you have a Kenyan Muslim in the White House, it's necessary to protect the country club in case he comes over and tries to play golf with y'all. You can never have enough guns and ammo to protect yourself against radical Muslim Presidents.


----------



## chimuelo

You forgot to edit out the word Muslim.
It might offend folks.
Emotional triggers, safe spaces, non inclusivity, micro aggression's, Lions and Tigers and Bears....Oh my.


----------



## NYC Composer

I forgot to edit out the word "golf" too.

Oh wait. No, I actually meant to leave it on there. Same with Muslim.

You're on a roll tonight. Jimmy on a roll with bbq sauce.


----------



## chimuelo

Actually I was on a roll sight reading. Ive been doing random manuscript reading as it was New Years resolution 4.
Finally after sucking butt for 6 months I played through an E Flat Etude.
Much slower than the Allegro tempo, but not a single mistake.
Jazz charts are no biggie as the melody and voicings are written out, easy to stay 4 beats ahead.
But 2 beats for ledger line reading.

But nothing depresses me quicker than social media.

Doesnt anyone have fun anymore?
A bunch of frothing idiots.


----------



## NYC Composer

Just people yellin' at each otha, brotha.

I can't sightread worth a damn, never could. I mean, single line and chord charts and stuff, but not the rest. I played a lot of sessions, but people who hired me knew not to plunk some Liszt down in front of me. I canwrite a 60 pieces orchestral score, but I read slow, so good for you.


----------



## chimuelo

Doing Boston, Yes, ELP, Jon Lord, Tull and Kansas had thier challenges a year ago. 
But now I re do entire automation scenes from scratch just to have challenges remembering 70+ CCS.
I freak out when I have time off.

Thank God I can come here and buy VIs and bash the elites.

Cheerz Brotha Man....


----------



## NYC Composer

Cheers Jimmy! Back to work for me..


----------



## Baron Greuner

*GOOD MORNING! GOOD MORNING! TIME TO VOTE!*


----------



## NYC Composer

I wish my British friends the best. Even you, Baron!


----------



## NYC Composer

"It _apparently_ very close Larry. But I will bet you folding dollars that the Remain campers will win this comfortably"

....saith the Baron a few short weeks ago.....we shall now see.


----------



## Baron Greuner

What you need to understand Larry is that this is already a done deal. There isn't anyway they are going to let the leave campaign win this under any circumstances. 

The most interesting aspect for me, would be if the vote is really close. I mean _really_ close. Then I will give you a chance to win your money back on how long Cameron, Osbourne and the GotBE lasts. That's the really interesting part of it for me.


----------



## NYC Composer

Will you share your vote with us, before or after? Understandable that you might not wish to, of course.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I may not vote. depends on whether I have time to get down to the Bowling Green. I have this frightful track to do by this afternoon and it's difficult to get the balances right.


----------



## chimuelo

Baron votes for UAD then.


----------



## Baron Greuner

If you think about it, if the EU institution was so fantastically good and everyone loved it, why are they having a vote?


----------



## chimuelo

I'm watching a gorgeous Irish-American Lass commenting on Brexit over the backdrop of Skye News that shows districts/cities.
William Wallace would be ashamed as Falkirk must still be full of the Nobles as 58% STAY.
Some guy commented on how the EU wants to regulate the suction of his vacuum cleaner...

Pretty fascinating stuff and I was going to avoid watching Cable tonight as I was going to vomit if I see these losers in Congress.
Good thing I scanned the guide and caught this.

BBC as usual is playing old worthless movies like Silence Of The Sheep.........sorry.......I meant Lambs.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, be happy Jimmy. Out they go.

As a side benefit, your chance of winning 100 sampled instruments just got a nice boost.


----------



## Soundhound

I don't know much about the politics of the whole Brexit thing. But I certainly can't let that prevent me from saying something inflammatory, now can I? From a cursory look, despite the fact that the EU hasn't been brilliantly managed, etc., it does appear that the racist, xenophobic, low information/Trump fan types in England have won the day?


----------



## chimuelo

Never fails...I try to watch News and fall asleep.
Just woke up and heard white racists won.

Wherever Obama injects himself white racists win.
I wonder if David Brock will pay Obama to not campaign for the wealthy queen and exiled King.


----------



## NYC Composer

This time I agree with you-not a good plan for Obama to have gone over the pond and lectured the Brits.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump knew in advance as he is in Scotland....beautiful city......been there many times.


----------



## NYC Composer

@hound-I'll go with xenophobic, or at least fearful. I'm not ready to stamp a fair majority of Britons as "low information"-know why? 'cause I don't have enough information.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well Jimmy, you wanted some rebellion and shakeup, so here you go. Now all bets are off in the U.S. as well, though I don't believe we've ever had a voter turnout to rival this one.


----------



## chimuelo

Singapore and India are having referendums to vote on returning to be British Colonies again.

Dont be stupid be a smarty.
Come and join the Anglo Party.


----------



## chimuelo

Earth will crumble.
A global recession.

No problems here.
You know what they say about the fittest.


----------



## Soundhound

Looks like I bought some Spitfire stuff a little too early. Whoops!


----------



## chimuelo

Swan Song for Cameron.


----------



## chimuelo

Time to switch out the Toft for the 24A.
Ill keep the other as a spare while I record songs.
Mostly originals like "Im With You" instead of the lame polka called "Im With Her"....


----------



## chimuelo

I predict Hillary wont use the Mariachi Bands at future rallies.


----------



## NYC Composer

Sadly, I don't know what a Toft OR a 24A is.


----------



## Soundhound

Can xenophobes be well informed? Seems a bit oxymoronish...




NYC Composer said:


> @hound-I'll go with xenophobic, or at least fearful. I'm not ready to stamp a fair majority of Britons as "low information"-know why? 'cause I don't have enough information.


----------



## Soundhound

Cameron promised this referendum during his election campaign as a sop to the right wing? Doh!!


----------



## NYC Composer

Could you excuse me for a moment? I feel a little faraged....


----------



## chimuelo

Larry and Hound, I am having frozen Jager pint to celebrate William Wallace, Churchill, Thatcher and British strength and honor.

Join me you whiney Liberal stiffs...


----------



## Soundhound

I pour myself a single malt (with ice in it, blasphemer that I am), raise my glass and sip in solidarity. To the end of the world, you closet reaganite you!


----------



## chimuelo

Im dragging out my Margeret Thatcher blow up Doll.
I will jirate with her over the back drop of Bond Girls and those marvellous 007 songs.


----------



## chimuelo

Larry Toft Mixers.
100% pristine discrete audio recording mixers.
Kontakt samples actually sound realistic.
TC Electronics algorithmic Reverbs dont hurt either.
Malmsjo GVI is hard to stop playing.
The dynamic range of that Piano is astounding.
I use a PTeq Upright live for placement reasons.

But for solo Piano Hans has re created the killer Gigastudio version with extreme ppp sfz.
You should check it out.
Youll play for hours.


----------



## Soundhound

And the definitive Brexit post is in.



chimuelo said:


> Im dragging out my Margeret Thatcher blow up Doll.
> I will jirate with her over the back drop of Bond Girls and those marvellous 007 songs.


----------



## chimuelo

Thatcher and the Royal Navy sank the Argentine Military during the Falklands.
Sad that the free health care sank the Royal Navy.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Bye Dave. Bye George. Bye Mark. Bye token conservative female MPs. Cameron basically resigns today before they can kick him out.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm not placing my betting money in your hands, my Baron.

Btw, are you an Austrian Baron and a collector of Chinese antiques?


----------



## Baron Greuner

This momentous event is the reason I'm not allowed to bet. Based on this result, the Trump is a certainty. He just arrived in Scotland to visit one of his golf courses.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Soundhound said:


> Looks like I bought some Spitfire stuff a little too early. Whoops!



Not sure about that. - Ever heard the term self-aggrandising? - My bet would be on Spitfire raising prices.


----------



## chimuelo

Maybe it wasn't Baron I saw handing out STAY Flyers at Heathrow as I slammed 15 dollar Pints.
Trump will definately try and Annex California back from Mexico now.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Whoa! There goes the Court of Human Rights. It's all happening folks.


----------



## chimuelo

I will concentrate my spending on English made hardware and software.
Toft and Modal, English Kontakt developers.
As a brown skinned racist working man, I must support fellow Indian, Arab, Asian and White racists, according to the well paid BBC Parrots.
However, Saxon heathens make such great stuff they will share in the Chimuelo Wealth Redistribution Fund.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Whoa! There goes fishing in UK waters. Again.

Marine Le Pen is having good day by all accounts. And incidentally, so is the Queen.

Probably not a great time to be buying a Porsche but WTF.


----------



## woodsdenis

You couldn't make this up, after Boris touting about an independent UK being the 5th largest economy in world today....... It isn't anymore!! Overtaken by France as sterling tanked after brexit.

What a bunch of dumb ash...es.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I will spell this out again. The currency falling _is a good thing in the short term_. The size of the economy meant about as much to people voting out as contracting a category 4 deadly virus. They don't care about that and feel thats a given in the short to medium term.

France won't last much longer and neither will.......Eire? Netherlands? Spain? Greece? Italy? Portugal? Belgium? Denmark? Mwhahahahahaha. ! Ha !


----------



## Baron Greuner

Whoa! Bad day for everyone in Gibraltor. Hope Spain doesn't close the border on you guys.
Whoa! Really good intervention from Obama there. Really helped to change the vote there Prez!


----------



## chimuelo

Iberian Seperatists.....


----------



## Soundhound

Sorry to return to Trump, but this Neal Gabler piece on Bill Moyers' site has articulated what I've been trying to say about the Republicans. One of the many terrible things about Trump is that he will make the current far right look normal.

http://billmoyers.com/story/america-republican-problem-media-partly-blame/


----------



## Soundhound

And speaking of xenophobia, here's a nice little photo collection.


----------



## chimuelo

Nothing wrong with creating a problem then riding in on a Human Rights Horse to save the day.

I'm just glad the EU suffers with sanctions on Russia while they take Obama's and Clinton's refugees.

That way we don't suffer from the sanctions and we can study the multi cultural aspects over the next 50 years.

We are lucky to have such obedient Allies.

Danke Mein Bruda


----------



## chimuelo

@Hound

We just saw a month ofLiberal media making billions parroting thier owners Goebbel style propaganda....

Give it a week then resume copy paste.
Sheep forget after a day or so.


----------



## Soundhound

What are you talking about?



chimuelo said:


> @Hound
> 
> We just saw a month ofLiberal media making billions parroting thier owners Goebbel style propaganda....


----------



## chimuelo

Just saying for the last month Liberal media has been blathering on and got it all wrong as usual.

Similar to NYTimes and WMDs in Iraq years back.

Save the parroting.
Sheep will be easily hypnotized again in a few more days.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy that's what you already said, speaking of cutting and pasting. But who said what about what? About the Brexit vote? What has your imagined liberal media said?

And you need to find better examples of your feverishly imagined liberal media than the NY Times/WMDs. That was Judith Miller, who was fired from the Times for that and then reappeared on Fox News, where she always should have been.


----------



## Soundhound

The people who vote for Trump are idiots of course, but they are nothing compared to the real thing:

http://fusion.net/story/318640/delete-your-golf-course/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fusion&utm_content=link


----------



## chimuelo

I believe the Bible has been right all along.
The split up of the EU, then the 3rd Anti Christ.

We got 10 years tops before Allah and Jesus return to rid us of these Liberals.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Great to see the Trump come over on Brexit Day.

Any suggestion that he came over the day Cameron resigned to gloat is purely coincidental.


----------



## Soundhound

So... no clarification coming on this I guess. <sigh> I will return to my single malt, unsatisfied...



chimuelo said:


> Just saying for the last month Liberal media has been blathering on and got it all wrong as usual.
> 
> Similar to NYTimes and WMDs in Iraq years back.
> 
> Save the parroting.
> Sheep will be easily hypnotized again in a few more days.


----------



## chimuelo

The BBC for one.
Even comments from Skye "experts" the entire time I watched.
Especially when the Asian Muslim stronghold of Birmingham was being announced right after a globalist/liberal had just said Birmingham was a STAY with huge consequences.

Here is the Chimuelo conspiracy theory.
Every since Snowden and Lois Lerner Americans lie at exit polls, during phone calls, etc.
They fear retaliation.
We have been lied to, called racists to the point where lies are used until the time to strike comes.

My opinion of course, but I have acquired an analytical skill since classical piano as a child.
I am motivated by pressure.
It turns Coal into Diamonds, so wtf Fuck eh?

When Cortez reached the New World he burned his ships.
His men became highly motivated...


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hahaaa. The BBC.

To be fair, the BBC were more balanced in this referendum than Sky. Sky did their absolute level best to keep everyone in the EU. They were about as balanced in their reporting as drunk on a keeling ship.
One poll, not an exit poll, gave the remain camp a 10 point lead right up to voting day. Easy money.

Sky reporters became seriously delusional after the result came in and were hardly able to contain their managements huge disappointment. They fucked up English football ever since 1992 but they miraculously didn't manage to fuck this one up, even though they spent huge broadcasting money trying to do just that. They really are the low end of bottom up television.


----------



## chimuelo

Here's a little story you might find humorous.
I just landed in Vegas with 2 brave musicians I motivated with a hardware sequencer I picked up in Tokyo.
I knew the Lonnie Anderson titty monster singer and my wife could schmooze Entertainment Directors so we were told no way by booking agents, no by musicians as I had a giant synth rig just off tour.
Moog Lab Series stack, OBX TX816, Mirage, Emulator II CP80, etc.
Star Search judge was hustled into a Limo by my wife. Came by our house and we kicked his ass doing Madonna Prince.
Everyone else was sucking on the Strip.
He said give me a Bio you start next week.

This is where I learned propaganda and media tactics.
I was telling everyone to write thier own bio and lie your ass off.
Thier stories were boring.
I used a picture of me playing my first recital when I was 5, and in the bio said I did my first album for Capital Records when I was 5 and altered an album cover, took a snapshot.

They printed this bull shit.
We packed the room for weeks until we got a 3 year contract for big money.

So you see I understand media and Sheep.
Liberals could use my advice.
I won all the time.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Holy Crap! Awesome photo.

I was playing with Canned Heat and Lindisfarne years ago and found myself in Lindisfarnes dressing room trying to understand a single word (Newcastle accent is seriously tough to understand) but those boys came through last night. 
Canned Heat threw a party at a lux hotel and there were some seriously weird and strange things happening with these crazy Yanks that night I can testify. 
I thought I might have to actually testify in court and lie under oath for real the following morning but we all got away with it, whatever the hell it was.


----------



## chimuelo

Woodstock Canned Heat....?
Jeez dude..
Honor to chat to a fellow road warrior..
I remember my oldest brotha loved their song ZZ Top copped.
Alvin Lee with his ES 335 ...
Don't think they use drum machines back then.
Distortion was brand new.


----------



## NYC Composer

Alvin Lee doing "I'm going home"at Woodstock was one of the most amazing performances I've ever seen (on film)


----------



## Soundhound

I bought my early 60s 335 (for $275!) in 1971, having seen Alvin Lee tear it up several times at the Fillmore East. And I think even put that same sticker on it. I don't know if they were louder than The Who when I saw them that summer, but they were definitely loud.

Back to the Brexit for a moment, as the maestro has struck once more:

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/british-lose-right-to-claim-that-americans-are-dumber


----------



## Soundhound

Ah, so Bill Moyers is a source for Goebbels style propaganda. What was that place in the Superman comics where everything was inverted? Bizarro world? I am going to visit it sometime and look you up for a refreshing beverage. 



chimuelo said:


> @Hound
> 
> We just saw a month ofLiberal media making billions parroting thier owners Goebbel style propaganda....
> 
> Give it a week then resume copy paste.
> Sheep forget after a day or so.


----------



## chimuelo

Mom showed me an old tax book from 72 when I sold my Teisco and got the SG Standard for 275 USD.
Had the Vox Distortion Booster you plugged in the Guitar.
I smoked the 9th graders in the Talent show doing Farfisa Leslie and lead on Santana and Yours Is No Disgrace.
They were doing Stones. 
The 12 year old terror.

Going Down was awesome, but I was stoked by Change The World....

And Moyers is actually credited for exposing the Deep State.
I assumed it was more stenographers from the Sinaloan Times.

Ankyu.....NAMM (Mini) tomorrow.


----------



## Soundhound

Hold on to your wallet!


----------



## chimuelo

3300 USD for cut down 12 inch Leslie.
We'll see if that dog will hunt.
My module sounds fantastic.
Japanese guys aren't listening to the yanks or Id own a Hammond.
If the.Leslie is weak I'll know.


----------



## dpasdernick

chimuelo said:


> 3300 USD for cut down 12 inch Leslie.
> We'll see if that dog will hunt.
> My module sounds fantastic.
> Japanese guys aren't listening to the yanks or Id own a Hammond.
> If the.Leslie is weak I'll know.



This is like reading Haiku on mescaline... love it.


----------



## NYC Composer

I wonder what sort of pounding the Brit bookmakers took on the odds they gave-or did they balance their books?

One thing seems clear-polling is a sham. So, to the topic: how have the odds shifted for the Donald?

No matter what you read, no one has a clue.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Love this!!!!



Shit!!!!! Nuns!!!!

Everyone behave.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Here are the odds.

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/us-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=791149


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> 3300 USD for cut down 12 inch Leslie.
> We'll see if that dog will hunt.
> My module sounds fantastic.
> Japanese guys aren't listening to the yanks or Id own a Hammond.
> If the.Leslie is weak I'll know.



Strange question I know Jimmy. 

But have you ever taken drugs?


----------



## chimuelo

Japanese cats arent nailing the Hammond sound.
Its XK Series are mediocre their B3s lost the electro mechanical aspects.
This is why I am leary of a miniaturized 147 Walnut cabinet using 12 inch speakers.

My lingo is odd here, but in the real world I live in its par for the course.

I shall strive to speak more universally.

And yes Ive done drugs.
Ill most likely smoke weed on a social level tonight.

Im so straight these days I have to lay down just to take a shit.


----------



## Soundhound

From now on I think every 10th post has to be haiku.


----------



## NYC Composer

I take drugs every day. Cholesterol drugs, blood pressure drugs, diabetes drugs, hell, I just party like its 1954.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Lipitor Larry? 

And do you have to pay for them?


----------



## NYC Composer

Same family, and fortunately I pay very minimal amounts.


----------



## chimuelo

I think America's elderly shouldn't have to pay much for thier prescriptions.
But in Liberal neighborhoods pay like everyone.
Your helping to teach them job skills which are sadly not taught in schools.
For example we requested delivery and the sharp entrepreneur charged more.
He used one of his Ho's so additional charges covering her costs were also added.
I couldn't argue as I totally support wealth redistribution.
Even though the Hashish appeared to be dipped cork.


----------



## NYC Composer

don't take the brown acid


----------



## NYC Composer

Today Trump meets with one of the conservative Illuminati who run America-Australian Rupert Murdoch. I wonder what dark deeds are being plotted.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Jimmy are you saying you think that Larry is one of Americas elderly?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry, Murdoch looks like he's lost complete control of Sky television.

Breaking news. The Labour Party apparently have a leadership crisis. Fuck me, really? Wow, that's never happened before.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'll have you know that despite being well over one hundred years old, I am quite spry.


----------



## chimuelo

Been reading on a Cameron replacement.
Boris is a dip.shit. Jeffrey Corbyn is a bumbling communist.
I like Dr. Fox.
Cameron's wife walks like Kaitlyn Jenner in those escape proof heels.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Jeffrey Corbyn is definitely a bumbling communist.

Jeremy Corbin, otoh is a right wing lotus eater that has inveigled the labour party and is awaiting orders on what to do next from Boris, who in turn awaits instructions from Sergei, who needs to get back into his Compare the Market dot com box ASAP.
I'm amazed that the guys with the strong intellects won this. Usually the British public are unable to understand anyone with an IQ of more than 39, but this time they came through.


----------



## Soundhound

Pretty much the exact opposite of what happened. Looks like people knew they were voting against immigration, a Trump-worthy xenophobia, and not much else. They're in for a world of hurt.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/




Baron Greuner said:


> I'm amazed that the guys with the strong intellects won this. Usually the British public are unable to understand anyone with an IQ of more than 39, but this time they came through.


----------



## chimuelo

Years from now when Europeans look back they'll thank these Brexit voters for showing them a life of choice beats a life of obedience.
These elites have gotten away with so much they figured the little people lost thier spirit.
I hope these wealthy globalists get thier asses kicked out everywhere.

Or at least make them live for a month amongst the peasants to see how great thier vision of Star Trek really.is.


----------



## Soundhound

I can't see that far into the future, I don't have crystal balls. And globalization has certainly screwed a lot of people. But nationalism for the sake of nationalism leads to divisiveness. as Churchill called it, the United States of Europe has helped keep world war at bay for a long time. I hope it doesn't regress to tribalism again. 70 million people died in the last one.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Oh Chrikey yes. My mother for example is a keen racist. I turned up at her house recently with a sun tan and she told me to fuck off.

Oh yeah, you get a lot of that. I'm immune to it now. Water off a ducks back.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Years from now when Europeans look back they'll thank these Brexit voters for showing them a life of choice beats a life of obedience.
> These elites have gotten away with so much they figured the little people lost thier spirit.
> I hope these wealthy globalists get thier asses kicked out everywhere.
> 
> Or at least make them live for a month amongst the peasants to see how great thier vision of Star Trek really.is.


I think it's too funny that a guy who knows as much as you do thinks it's a great thing that fuckers furiously Googling "what is the EU" voted with their pure hearts and no brains. Now they're having buyer's remorse, having staged a know-nothing revolution.

More and more, it strikes me that it's not about conservative or liberal for you, as you so often say. What you don't say is that you're pretty much an anarchist, Jimmy. You want to blow some shit up. Ok-and if then things are worse? 
Let your freak flag fly.

Social conventions suck. The only thing worse than social conventions is the absence of any social conventions.


----------



## Baron Greuner

There are quite a few people I've talked to here that now wished they had voted to leave the EU.


----------



## NYC Composer

For what earthly reason-a bigger majority?

I live for these anecdotal moments.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Oh yeah! Absolutely. They thought that the world would end the day after and when it didn't they now wish they had fezzed up and shown a pair.

BUT! Someone or someone(s) in the Tory party is about to make an almighty mistake. Say tuned.

This is the bit of all of this I really like. 

Welcome to..........

*THE AFTERMATH*​


----------



## NYC Composer

Yet another anarchist. Enjoy.


----------



## woodsdenis

Twitter responses to DT visit to Scotland.


----------



## chimuelo

I'm not an anarchist.
I think liars and losers should be removed when they fail.
If they stay I'm OK since I don't rely on wealthy whites to fulfill my life.

I operate on the assumption that our wealthiest have more information than I do.
So I believe them even if I disagree.
If I am lied to and I disagree with thier secret wars, invasions and self enrichment....yeah. Throw the bums.
I love uncertainty.
Got use to it in the 7 years.

British Asian Arab Black and White racists will be fine.


----------



## NYC Composer

....removed and replaced with...?

I see-you're not an anarchist but you love uncertainty. I think you'd enjoy a nice stint in Iraq or Afghanistan- those places are full of uncertainty.


----------



## chimuelo

Jeez Larry.
Chicken little had more faith.
I'd rather read about the inception of ideas moving forward than the NYTimes WashPo HuffPo or BBC.
These parrots were wrong AGAIN.
I have no desire to waste more time deciphering thier lies.

Have faith in these racists and low information voters.
I for one find it humorous when wealthy whites are removed the voters are called racists.

Don't worry Larry.
Hispanics are graduating lawyers and West Point grads at 127% levels over the last 12 years.
Well be the next racists to carry on American exceptionalism.


----------



## NYC Composer

Fine. I'm sure the present ones are exhausted.

I'm reading a book called "White Trash" about the initial colonization of America. You'd enjoy it Jimmy, though it's a little dry.

Why would you have faith in anyone who's low information? You're not.


----------



## chimuelo

So I guess the last few hundred years of whites invading colonizing and killing folks is coming to and end.

Let Arabs and Asians kill each other and invade neighbors for a few hundred years.
Hopefully when Latinos overtake America we will teach our children strength and honor.
Much better than guilt and gender awareness.
Faith family and education will be the future.
Maybe blacks and whites can go back to what made their culture so admired before they ruined it.
Somebody needs to save America.
Well hook yuze guys up...


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, since you are going to hook us up (since you act with one mind) hopefully you'll be keeping DJT from the White House. As a Jew and therefore a semi-white, I want to thank you (in my role as the representative of the whole tribe.)


----------



## NYC Composer

Btw-whereI'm from, we view this political correctness thing as merely being polite. Throwing racial and gender epithets around the construction site might be just peachy, around the copy machine less so. Wtf is wrong with non- offensive language, and if I practice civility how exactly does that rob me of my "strength and honor"? Do you honestly think both of those things are so completely incompatible?


----------



## chimuelo

Indeed we will.
We sympathize with the indoctrinated whites that traded their traditional Gods for wealthy white multi millionaire Liberals.
We also sympathize with their minorities, but in no way will allow them to enslave our children with their fatherless breeding programs.

Trump will not make it to the White House.
I sure hope for this favor us low information racists are thanked.
Without us you'd be up shit creek without a paddle.

Erev Tov Shagetz


----------



## chimuelo

But help us elect Warren as VP so we can get rid of her too in 4 years.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy, as a closet Reaganite (okay, recently reemerged), what is your take on Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell? If you can spend entire sentences without invoking your personal boogiemen, the wealthy white liberals, that is. I understand if it's not possible of course.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I'm semi white myself ATM. Too much sun. Too much sun.

Larry, what happens when you're feeling a bit off colour? Do you go semi- demi white, or do you become completely white?


----------



## chimuelo

McConnell and Ryan need to be removed in the next election.
They serve nobody but their investors.

Ryan especially is a tool.
Votes no on the stimulus and loses.
Then begs Joe Biden (the redistributor of our infrastructure funds that never built jack shit)
for 3 million to help keep him elected longer.

Now it's an election year and they actually help pass an important HASMAT that should have been passed back in the 90s.
Half of these toxins are available at any store with little or no real oversight.

I could rag on about these useless beggars, but my main concern is to remove the leadership of both parties.
The wealthy white 1% multi millionaires and billionaires that escaped us in 2014 are history.

Real Liberals who actually served their communities liked Sanders and Gabbard are no longer going to be quiet for the richest whites in DC.


----------



## Soundhound

That was badass! Wealthy white crept into one sentence, but liberal was sequestered to the next, and used positively to boot. Nice! Now for bonus points on today's pop quiz, in the glutton for punishment category: Elizabeth Warren and Mitch McConnel, compare and contrast.


----------



## chimuelo

I dont want to hurt worshippers of white Liberals feelings.

Id rather leave a real Liberal like Tulsi Gabbards name seperate from the con artists, victims and mooches.

Plus she looks good in a Bikini.


----------



## chimuelo

Actually seeing Rosario Dawson and Tulsi flanking Bernie one night was as good as Ivanna and Melania flanking Trump.

Hillary always has these Mooses on stage making her look less large.

Huma is babe though.
A classy lady who served the Queen so well she gets an additional salary from the Foundation.
Plus her and Hillary have so much in common.
Both of thier men are sexual deviants.
There are people having to register every 90 days as sex offenders who have done far less than these guys.
But having a leader capable of sex is a good thing.
Id rather they get a header or a nice brief breeding session prior to more drone strikes.
Might settle the nerves a little.
I know Cheney and Rumsfeldt were in dyre need of a blow job more than any white men in history.

We might have gotten armored hum vees or discovered Saddams huge weapons caches before sending in the boys and girls.


----------



## Baron Greuner

She looks like a wigwam and there's very little she can about that with those hips of hers.
She should dress up like a nun and learn to float Blues Brothers style.

The first nun to become President of these United States.

Sister Hillary.


----------



## chimuelo

She-It....(shit in workers lingo)

The sisters I had use to beat us with paddles and yardsticks.
Ive had Nuns that scare me more than these compassionate conSPERvatives and girly men Liberals.

Sister Switzer is probaly 90 by now.
She would be better than these piche Putos we have now.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> She looks like a wigwam and there's very little she can about that with those hips of hers.
> She should dress up like a nun and learn to float Blues Brothers style.
> 
> The first nun to become President of these United States.
> 
> Sister Hillary.


Whereas Trump is a fine figure of a man who spends more time and hairspray on his unfathomable do than any woman I've ever seen.

I also suspect he wears a girdle, or possibly a lace up bodice that is so tight it leaves him breathless.

While we're at it, why are his eyes always so pink? Is he a wabbit??


----------



## JonFairhurst

Nah, he's just a spoiled brat who never grew up.

BTW, I was wondering when this conversation would dumpster dive into misogyny. Page 74, apparently...


----------



## chimuelo

The bashing of elites, globalists and multi millionaire wealth inequality advocates is always popular amongst the commoners.

I was thinking of starting a foundation for tortured composers, and the sufferage, rejection and denial we face.
Get pictures of Howard Scar locked in a dungeon, unable to leave until another u-He synth is completed.
Graduates living with thier parents in a basement, chained to thier DAWs and handcuffed with coiled cable headphones from the 1920 designs.

Forced to recreate symphonic mock ups with such low budgets, they're often forced to buy used 1s and 0s.....

I think Linsay Lohan could get hat teary eyed Alyssa Milano look.
I promise not to stay in 100,000 a week rooms like Hillary and Bill.
When fundraising I will use Uber and stay at Motel 6.
I will of course take a small salary to help save the little people....


----------



## NYC Composer

JonFairhurst said:


> Nah, he's just a spoiled brat who never grew up.
> 
> BTW, I was wondering when this conversation would dumpster dive into misogyny. Page 74, apparently...


Oh Jon, you are woefully behind.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

I haven't understood a word of this thread for the last couple of pages.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Chim! I leave for a few weeks and you're still cutting/pasting the same post you've been depositing here daily for the past ten years. Thank goodness I haven't missed anything.

So I'm starting to get that white liberals and conservatives are identical, all are equally corrupt, there's no such thing as good or bad public policy, Elizabeth Warren is no different from Paul Ryan (that POS disgusting asshole who wants to eliminate government, finance huge tax cuts at the top with nasty cuts to aid to the needy, take away people's healthcare, etc. - everything the typical white liberal Democratic advocates).

Is there anything I've forgotten?


----------



## chimuelo

Wants and achievements are a separate issue.

We know where every lawyer/professor stands, what they urge for, and call for.
None achieve anything, even when we give them a chance to play for table stakes, they choose petty ante.

Since they become multi millionaires for failing (standard Government achievement award) I look forward to them at least allowing people that actually served their country a chance to wet their beaks...

After all...we are not Communists.

Don Barzini
1972 Metro Goldwyn Mayer The Godfather


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, if you're going to say it, say it accurately, and it crosses party lines. I want you to acknowledge the truth of this:

You don't get paid for failing-you get paid for gaming the system. Trade off is whether you do a fair amount of good while doing so, and that is a subjective matter.


----------



## chimuelo

I can't agree.
I see the VA Liberal/Federal "Administrators" getting 90k bonuses, then we are told they are fired, as they should be, but FOIA requests revealed us stupid middle class suckers were lied to again...they're making 6 figures in another bull shit agency.

I understand lies to stay in office like Benghazzi, etc.
But this type of failure/reward is a slap in tax payers faces.

They are going to rape taxpayers until there's a revolt.
And why not?
GOP has the power to defund corrupt departments. They did NOTHING except bring in a CEO. 

This is why Liberals were run out of town, and why Ryan and his compassionate Conversatives better line up customers for thier next job as lobbyists.

This is what they do.

2 Law Firms representing thier clients.
One big happy courthouse where everybody pays except them.


----------



## NYC Composer

Please re-read my statement and if you disagree, be specific. It would help if you were directly referential and responsive rather than taking every opportunity to make some sort of indecipherable mission statement.


----------



## chimuelo

I was specific.
They are rewarded for failure.
Financially.

Or are we talking specific parties?
Again I see the Deep State, globalists, 1 party.

Trade offs like Gingrich and Clinton did where neither got what they wanted, but a little is better than nothing.
Is that what you mean?


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, it's better in terms of being responsive.

I could make you a list of 1000 politicians who have been rewarded for their ability to game the system. How can you argue with me when I say that whether they did any good or not is subjective, which includes whether they succeeded or "failed"?? Of course it is, depending on where people fall in the political spectrum.


----------



## chimuelo

Well as a Conservationalist I was relieved when Department of the Interior, Fish & Game and Parks and Recreation decided to allow Yellowstone to burn.
It's the natural way wildlife comes back stronger as species adapt.

We need a fire in D.C..
People see thier borderless utopia as another unintended consequence.
Funny how they prosper as we lose more freedoms, and get wealthy as we struggle.

Is this a trade off too?


----------



## NYC Composer

So any fire will do?

I'm getting it, Jimmy. Not an anarchist- a revolutionary. My view it that revolutions should be carefully chosen. My word- you want hope and change!


----------



## chimuelo

Burn the money.
Then they have no reason to be there.

Or real laws and consequences.
But trial lawyers don't drop a case until the client goes broke.


----------



## NYC Composer

NYC Composer said:


> So any fire will do?





chimuelo said:


> Burn the money.
> Then they have no reason to be there.
> 
> Or real laws and consequences.
> But trial lawyers don't drop a case until the client goes broke.


We agree. Get the money out of politics. Pay them a competitive wage, even for life, but no jobs with influence after.

For corruption, serious jail time in actual prison.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> I haven't understood a word of this thread for the last couple of pages.


Ha!

Keep reading, Michael. I'm in the Zone!!


----------



## JonFairhurst

NYC Composer said:


> Oh Jon, you are woefully behind.





I'm afraid that I've mentally blocked the previous instances.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry why are The Trumps eyes always so pink?

Dunno. Probably because either he takes a lot of drugs or he's been thrashed regularly by Sssssister Sssswitzer.

Hard to say. I mean it's hard to say Sister Switzer as opposed to giving a measured reason.


----------



## JonFairhurst

On Dune's Arrakis, spice turned the Fremen's eyes blue. 

But pink? Well, there is a Ginger Spice, but that's probably not it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geri_Halliwell


----------



## Soundhound

And back on Earth, the acorn often falls very near the tree:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/woody-guthrie-trump_us_56a18e5ae4b0404eb8f11bb3


----------



## chimuelo

Soundhound,
Does the Huff have Hispanics or blacks on thier editorial staff?
It is after all a bastion of Liberal media articles.
I'm guessing it's staff reflects our multicultural make up.
Men, women, various minorities, gender types, etc.?


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy. I've read about Trump's father lots of places. Would you be happy if I provided other sources? The black liberal helicopters may be hovering over your house as we speak, but that doesn't mean Trump's father wasn't, like his son, a racist piece of shite.

edit: voila - http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...ntempt-for-his-landlord-donald-trumps-father/


----------



## Soundhound

And where are you reading that Huffpo doesn't hire minorities? They certainly write about the subject a lot.


----------



## chimuelo

Before I dive into Liberal copy/pastes I only support true diversified companies, that way when racism and sexual assaults are levied I feel there's some substance.

Thanks. I trust the "WMDs In Iraq" NYTIMES more than the diversified all white female Huffpo.

Check out the selfie.......Oooopps.
Looks like Saltine City to me.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1118628/pg1


----------



## chimuelo

Jeez the Trumps are perverts and rapists.
Wealthy dirtbags.

Funny Obama's handlers said the same thing about the Clinton's in 2008.

Glad we've progressed to have dirtbags from both parties now as opposed to just one.


----------



## Soundhound

You're equating Bill Clinton fucking around on the side with Trump's qualifications as a human being? I think the dirtbag contest is kind of a rout here.


----------



## Soundhound

Why is it that right wing cranks only quote one instance when complaining about the Times, and don't acknowledge the fact that Judith Miller was fired for the reporting and resurfaced on Fox News. Even when that same thing was said in this very thread. Just a few short posts ago! 

Why is that? The world is so mysterious, don't you find?




chimuelo said:


> Thanks. I trust the "WMDs In Iraq" NYTIMES more than the diversified all white female Huffpo.


----------



## Soundhound

As for the Huffpo diversity photo. Nice! I've spent most of my adult life in ad agencies. (I'm sorry to say, gotta eat, gotta buy guitars and string libraries somehow...) They've always been as lily white as a polar bear in a snow storm. So I know what you're saying. 

But does that mean they shouldn't report on the fact that Fred Trump was a racist? Not sure how you get from A to B there Jimmy. Seems like a reach. Or as we used to say writings ads back in the day, a Kareem. (skyhook, get it?...)


----------



## chimuelo

Gimme a break SH.
You know I am going to vote for Liberal Globalists and Star Trek XXVIII.

But they have to come to the center where us Independents live to win.
They already fooled the far right and far left minority groups.
Combined they still don't add up to our numbers.

So let me bash the stenographers and enjoy hearing Liberals beg me for support.

We still have the best lairs and smartest criminals in the world.

I don't watch TV, so the fear and pain Sheep suffer through for an entire summer hiding under their desks doesn't apply to me.

But they really should get Hollywood more involved.
CG is where it's at now.
Use that, hell Hollywood would give Liberals advertisement breaks in exchange for tax breaks like Obama gave the suffering producers last time around.
For 33,000 large for a plate of food with meager portions, it was the least our globalists could do.

We will soon celebrate having the right rapist in the White House.

Put an end to poverty, stop the war on women, the war on drugs, end micro aggression's and safe space invasions.
Conquer terrorism through love and understanding, plus some jobs since nobody here wants them.


----------



## Soundhound

Hollywood has waaaaay more right wingers than the right wing likes to imagine.


----------



## Soundhound

I do have a backup position though.


----------



## chimuelo

Jane Kim and Tulsi Gabbard.
Real Liberals.
Babes....not Buffalo.


----------



## NYC Composer

Gotta give Jimmy this round. Ding!

Oh, and Jimbo? I give you the round on Barney Frank too....and I'm slowly coming around to the Mutual Enrichment Society better known as Congress. Still, things like the Repubs blocking the Zika funding bill to try to save the babies is just too bizarre for words. If the fruitcakes hadn't taken over the asylum, maybe we could have a loyal opposition and some critical compromises instead of this endless obstructionist bullshit.

AND...have to get the money out. Have to.


----------



## Soundhound

Wait a minute, I demand a recount. That was a phantom punch, never happened!


----------



## chimuelo

Ryan and the GOP leadership is history.
Trump did globalist Liberals a huge favor by decimating them.
Theres plenty of real Democrats and Republicans that are new and being used by the false progressive/Deep State GOP and DNC prostitutes.
Zika funds are tied to border security which translates to nothing getting done.
These car dealership add ons are what cost tax payers 65 billion during Hurricane Sandy after original costs for emergency funding was 7 billion.

This is how self enrichment is hidden.
Remember the Pelosi lie where she bragged that earmarks were over. Didnt say they made them illegal but they were "over"..
Weeks later FOIA Requests were denied then leaks revealed earmarks were over for the public.
No longer could voters see what multi millionaire Liberals were taking back to friends in thier districts.

Naturally lamestream media doesnt report this, you have to go to watchdog groups that keep the public informed on the left right song and dance.

GOP went to town once they took power back. They also lack integrity and class as now they got to wet thier beaks.

These 2 groups amazingly come together on the banking bill and Trans Pacific, its the little silly bills like restrooms for trannies or abortion. Issues that are blown up to be big but really arent when you count the voters.
Sure abortion and gay rights are hot for the few that get loud about it but the over whelming majority of Americans find it as important as switching from Gain to Tide laundry detergent.

These lawyers and professional students are all in together on selling out America to the highest bidder.
Globalist prostitutes that prefer certain clients over others as they wont have to fuck as hard.

Watched Farage at the EU Parliament.
Then watched that feckless consortium of non essentials deciding whats best for others.
Germans are the most tolerant citizens on the planet.
To put up with these other slacker nations is a feat.
With Britian leaving I cant see German workers tolerating this bogus Union where the fewest tell the most how its going to be.

Good luck with that...


----------



## Soundhound

Entertaining as all get out and hard to check up on all that without taking the rest of the week off. Not that I wouldn't love to, give me any excuse. And I'm not saying (ever, for the trillionth time) that I don't think the game is dirty and needs to be overhauled. 

But.. abortion rights and gay rights are not trendy, hotbed issues important for a few people. They are critical, fundamental civil rights issues important to everyone interested in living in a just, enlightened, egalitarian society.


----------



## NYC Composer

I remember the early 60s fairly vividly. Things are different today in the growth and the grudging acceptance of an larger and somewhat integrated African American middle class. Not much different for the poor, but it never seems to be.

You must have gay friends, Jimmy. It's a real thing.

Also, tell millions of evangelical Christians and 100s of millions of women that abortion isn't important.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Nigel Farage's speech at Brussells was hysterically funny. Especially when he said none of them had ever had proper jobs. The female translator sitting behind him, facial expression said it all when it dawned on her what he was saying. 

Hey chaps! Great news yesterday. My new car is arriving on time and we're off for several weeks driving through Skandinavia for summer holidays. Don't burn the place down while I'm away.


----------



## NYC Composer

Have a wonderful time,, AC.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Never been in that part of the world before. Hope the weather holds up and looking forward to the driving on long roads.


----------



## NYC Composer

I drove hundreds of miles of the southern U.S. coastline last year. Going on driveabout is fun.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I didn't know you liked driving Larry. You should have said. Bet that was good. My worry in the USA is the speed limit. We sort of get used to driving a bit quicker here, and even quicker on the continent. Picking the car up in about a week or so and I'm selling one too. Because it's really a convertible, we desperately want it to be a good summer over there because the weather here for June has been poor. It's raining like hell now as I speak.
I'm trying to find a video of the car thats the same colour for you.
There you go. Even has a Yank doing the testing in Portugal.


----------



## NYC Composer

And this you bought from music proceeds?? Man, I gotta move to socialist Britain.

No no, I like driving slow and stopping at a new beach every thirty miles. I am a sightseer and a culture hound.

Anyway, beautiful car, and I've just ordered up great weather for you. Toodles!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hahah Larry, you're a case at times. Thanks for the weather call up my friend! We already have 3 bloody cars. We have a 6 year old 911 Carrera S and my wife has an SLK and theres a really old Golf V6 that we mostly take out for run around in general, so the 911 will probably go first because she won't drive it at all. Too frightening apparently although she didn't think that way 40 years ago. Haha!

This one will be much better on fuel economy because its a flat 4 turbo. Hopefully.


----------



## chimuelo

When going to the Mainland that tunnel must be awesome.
Never seen it, just pictures.
A 911 SC with harnesses and midnight brown 1978 is what a friend of mine has.
Incredible rides from Tahoe over to the coast and up to Bodega Bay.
Gallons of oil in those beasts.

And Larry the issues I spoke of were already decided on the state level, abortion is already law.
Thats why being against it like our current leaders were, then piling on once its a safe win from states passing thier own laws is no big deal.

Being in shows for 30 years I can guarantee you I know more LBGT folks than most.
I immediately was welcomed by them when many musicians were downright over competitive assholes.
I miss my lighthearted comical friends.
Where I am now if it wasnt for the money Id be gone.

Nevada is the only progressive state in the union.
Only Washington and Colorado are seeing the light.
Name one city or state where corporations pay public salaries and pensions.
All others are fake progressives.
The corporations pay politicians who then turn around and make tax payers cover the pile of shit the assholes before them left.

How many teachers did Chicago New York and California lay off in 2009?
Thousands.
Nevada.......ZERO.

So you see when I hear how "Liberal or Conservative" a state claims to be I do face palms.
They are just tax and spend hypocrits with millions of Sheep too broke to fight back.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> When going to the Mainland that tunnel must be awesome.
> Never seen it, just pictures.
> A 911 SC with harnesses and midnight brown 1978 is what a friend of mine has.
> Incredible rides from Tahoe over to the coast and up to Bodega Bay.
> Gallons of oil in those beasts.



Up the California coast is a drive I would take no question. Trouble is, you have to hire a car over there. Driving around France is also a good one. Very pretty place, like England, Scotland and Wales. The weavy roads are a lot of fun. The flat 6 of the Carrera is really good but is almost overkill for normal use these days because of traffic. We'll see what the 718S is like, although I have obviously driven one as a test but only around 5 or 6 miles.


----------



## Soundhound

Everybody on this thread is going to Scandinavia! Unfair to Local 12. I pine for the fjords!


----------



## chimuelo

I would die in Europe driving.
I tried a spin in Engand years ago.
Everyone yelling at me knew I was American.
I felt like an Asian immigrant on the 405.


----------



## chimuelo

Wow.
Obama is so smart he's stupid.
He just needs to skate through until the end of the year and he's home free.
After the numerous slaps at Trump on the world stage during the Trade meeting today I guarantee his polls will only climb.

Don't these geniuses see this?
Trump cannot win unless they give the race away.
But every time they show clips about the Trade gathering it's all about Trump.

Maybe that's the plan. I wouldn't be surprised.
Clinton's gotta be pissed about that.


----------



## NYC Composer

Gee Jimmy, I'm so glad you're down with gay folk. I guess that means you listened to their concerns, like the inability to collect Social Security benefits that married folk did because their unions weren't recognized. The long period of minimal crappy funding for AIDS because it was a "gay disease". The non prosecution of gay bashing (yes, it was a thing, just as lynching was). The closeted fear, the assumption of and association of homosexuality with pedophilia. 

There's so much more, but your amusing friends were ghettoized in this country and you have this one wrong, and in your heart you know it.


----------



## chimuelo

You're depressing Larry.

Of course concerns were finally addressed but since they are not a huge majority of the population it's not a big deal for the majority of Americans.
You missed the point.

It was low hanging fruit that was around during the Super Majority and Obama who clearly was against it until he was for it.

Your grandstanding is magnificent though as if I had somehow blocked legislation.

In workplace relationships the conversation was always Im going to marry up not the reality you outlined as if you were running for Mayor of San Francisco.

But thanks for reminding me of how a Bible to take an Oathe on in the White House is out dated.

If you want to talk about restrooms with a dozen different stick figures on them, tell me how overwhelmingly happy Americans will be as they piss thier pants studying hyraglphs making sure they get the right one, lest they be beaten by the angry brother of Xena.


----------



## NYC Composer

Trust me, for me the bathroom is simply a place to piss, not a Fox News live camera feed checking for penii.

As to a large majority of Americans, so fuckin' what? It needed to get done. I believe Bush might have done it but for him, it would have been being kicked out of the party, his religion and strangled by some goon of Dick Cheney's-the guy who had a magical conversion when his daughter came out.

I'm never depressing, Jimmy. I am the Spirit of Fun! You love me, ya bastid. What other lib'ral in your entire lifetime has ever agreed with you and admitted you're right about something? and why DID you block that legislation??

Low hanging fruit? Is that your little gay joke? Sweet!

Anyone can lie on a Bible. Shee-it.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy are gay rights not important because only 5-10% of the population is gay? Or you're talking realpolitics? Jimmyspeak poetics sometimes blurs the line for us mere mortals... 

And the bathroom issue, sounds a lot like angry right wingers (are there any other kind, btw?) furious that they have to dial 1 to get english now. Xena-phobia. get it? see what I did there?! Why is the right wing so obsessed with bathrooms and bedrooms? Because the last thing they really want is freedom, they want to be told what to do, and when to do it. Please sir may I have another!!

Who gives a flying ____ about political correctness anyway? Who does it hurt? Exactly nobody. It's a crock, made up by said right wingers. Instances of over correction, nothing compared to the inequality and injustices that the society is trying to get rid of.


----------



## JonFairhurst

The strangest thing about the bathroom issue is that women's bathrooms have stalls, so there is still individual privacy. 

Do conservatives think women's bathrooms have open urinals? The whole, "look mommy, that lady has junk" thing is bogus.


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah the not so strange thing is Trannies have found thier spot in America's restrooms long ago before Legacy Shoppers caused God's politicians to step in.
These law firms all want to do nothing until a lame duck session.

So when either win an election then immediately start keeping thier promises I don't care to waste time discussing who has to piss here or there on a federal level.

On a more serious note Boris Johnson is available.
Since our elites claim we live in a borderless complex world created by them of course without multi nationals, Trump can have Boris Johnson as VP.
The hair on these 2 is very complimentary.

Soundhound, counting bi sexual men and women it's like 25% since I don't read the Sinaloan Times.

I just go into restrooms at Clubs.
Girls are allowed into men's restrooms and men into women's.
Take your wives to a club sometime and enjoy yourselves.
You've been obeying laws too long.

Nobody obeys the laws.
Especially in Brussells/DC.


----------



## Soundhound

Right wing obsession with bedroom and bathroom issues is part of the thou dost protest too much syndrome. Same thing with right wing anti-lgbt crap. Self loathing and denial are powerful forces over yonder. Doug Kenney et al nailed these weirdos in Animal House decades ago (Neidermeier, hitler youth frat house...). I really thought we were going to get past all this nonsense way back when, and then came the Reagan cultural and political de-evolution... silly me...


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah when the majority of Americans no longer care, one of the law firms will take an easy win.
But not during a super majority, rather a lame duck. 
GOP Hispanic, Asian, Indian, black and white racists will give Americans single payer HEALTH care and fix immigration laws next.

Taking credit and the fake Liberals will try and stop the win by adding on billions in earmarks.

Same dog and pony show, same sheep clacking thier hooves for thier fake team.

The real game isn't even terrorism.
That's regulated for election cycles too.

Unenforceable trade laws layered on top of already in place unenforceable lawyer Crap where slave trade in Malaysia, deforestation in Peru go unanswered.

These nations can continue thier lawlessness as long as corporations and thier puppet politicians get cheap labor.

Cheer for the rich whites who get fat while we struggle to find our way forward in the shrinking middle class.

Face the facts.
You mean nothing to those you worship.
Sure, the little wins on issues that we see in the lame duck.
But real issues you have no say in.

You've been sold out and actually still believe you have a voice.

I wish I had such a flock cheering me on.


----------



## Soundhound

Oh yeah, toootallly... civil rights are for chumps. Not worth thinking about really.

Personally I strive for walking and chewing gum at the same time. Fight the power, rage against the machine, and fight the forces of primitivism (republicans) and get behind progressivism and civil rights. All at the same time! Sugar free gum recommended.


----------



## Baron Greuner

You now realise that we could end up with Sister Hillary and Mother Theresa?


----------



## NYC Composer

It's going to be a hands across the water moment of electing the leaders that people dislike least.


----------



## Baron Greuner

It is indeed. Not sure about Theresa May. She is favourite to win now that Boris became Julius Caesar and was then duly dispatched by Cassius and Brutus in very short order. But I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.

Mother Theresa will almost certainly try to delay Article 50. That will cause a lot of trouble and in the end you can sort of see UKIP coming very much to the fore a few years from now.

The conservatives cannot ever be trusted to do anything. This is par for the course and will end in tears.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'll make a bold prediction. The world will muddle on, then some madness will infect the masses and the Powers That Be, there will be monstrous deeds and wide scale death and devastation, the survivors will create a New World Order, wait some number of years and if it doesn't go nuclear, rinse and repeat.

If it does, all bets are off. Live your life or build your bomb shelter and hide after you stock up.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yes quite Larry.

When she became favourite to succeed to PM, I had to look her up because she must have been the quietest Home Secretary ever. Hard to believe she actually existed until a few days ago. This what I found.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_May

*"In 1997, she appeared in the music video for the Prodigy's single "Smack My Bitch Up". She moved into acting later in her career in B movies such as Exterminator City and One Man and his Dog."*

I foolishly thought that anyone appearing in a Prodigy music video for a single entitled 'Smack My Bitch Up' has every right right to become Prime Minister. I had innocently left out the 'h' and on realisation felt a degree of disappointment.
I thought, there's no way Hillary can measure up to that kind of CV.
On further investigation, I find that 'Theresa' is the daughter of a vicar.

Oh Christ!


----------



## NYC Composer

Thank you for the pre- sleep literal lol, Baron!


----------



## chimuelo

I just received email from Act Blue for Bernie donations.
They stopped after California.

Maybe the AG wanted a way out and agreed to the secret meeting.
Then leaked it?

Doesn't matter.
The fact Bernie is fundraising again is a much bigger story.

For 2 days I wait to see maybe the Amazon Post or Sinaloan Times say something.

Great source for investigative journalism, but only on people they are told to investigate.
.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Interesting development in Austrian politics happening.


----------



## chimuelo

Are you kidding?
They dont like funny looking people...?
Frexit, Ausexit,.....whats next....


----------



## JonFairhurst

Hey, I was in Vienna during the vote. Everything seemed fine to me.

If it was just Vienna, would it be a Weiner-exit?


----------



## chimuelo

Lucky you Jon.
Always wanted to go.
Have a friend who was going to take me around Vienna.
Zawinul played at his club there. 

Thanks to Bush Cheney and the NYTimes the idea of an American in Paris or Vienna was not cool.
The immigrants my friend was worried about were Eastern Europeans not Muslims.
Was robbed 3 times. Calls them skinheads.

Maybe somebody I can see Switzerland and Austria.
Alpine is where its at for me.
I love moguls and long blue runs.
Cross country and black slopes too much effort.


----------



## Soundhound

Bush/Cheney and the NY Times. Inextricably tied together for all time. Jesus Christ on a bicycle Jimmy....


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> Are you kidding?
> They dont like funny looking people...?
> Frexit, Ausexit,.....whats next....



Has Angela asked the USA if they would like to join the EU yet?


----------



## NYC Composer

JonFairhurst said:


> Hey, I was in Vienna during the vote. Everything seemed fine to me.
> 
> If it was just Vienna, would it be a Weiner-exit?





Baron Greuner said:


> Has Angela asked the USA if they would like to join the EU yet?


trmp said yesterday that we do insufficient, candyass torture


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Hey Larry, have you been keeping up with the delegates revolution news? I'm not sure the revolt will be successful, but it's in full-swing. The GOP convention is gonna be an all-out Civil War.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey Michael-haven't been following- educate me!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Have the FBI let Hillary go yet?


----------



## NYC Composer

No, they're waterboarding her, and Trump thinks they need to use more stringent torture.


----------



## Baron Greuner

What everyone is going to absolutely jump for joy over, is the EU referendum vote now actually means nothing. The conservatives are now taking their revenge on anyone that voted to leave. They're going to put Theresa May in and she will delay Article 50 until the clock runs out. They will make noises over a two year period about trying to cut a deal on movement, but this will eventually wind up as completely watered down.
Then the shit will hit the fan as some Brexit Tories will either cross the floor to UKIP or abstain on a vote in the House, thus forcing an immediate election. They will then find many voters will vote UKIP making life very difficult for themselves. They always, in my experience, wind up doing this kind of thing and it's great to sit back and watch this unfold.


----------



## NYC Composer

....except I'm not betting with you, Baron. 

(Are you tooling around Scandinavia?)


----------



## Baron Greuner

Nah! Got a 9 to 12 day delay apparently. Put in me and the memsahib in a bit of quandary. Wasn't really due to shoot off for about a week anyway.

Just Skyping with my socialist commie trotskyite co writer friend in London a minute ago and he's the same as you. He thinks if The Nun tries to pull that one out of the bag, there will be extreme violence in the streets. He has a point but doesn't really understand the vagaries of how the conservatives work round these things. When you finally come to the conclusion that all political parties are private clubs, it all becomes clear.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Hey Michael-haven't been following- educate me!


I've been following daily on Twitter. Simplified version, because a lot of things have been happening: Large group of delegates trying to get (1) a conscience clause to pass by the rules committee, or failing that, the general delegate population -or- (2) a change to rule 16, which would unbind all delegates on the first ballot. 
This movement has gathered enough steam that Trump has started taking about it, saying that it's "illegal".A member of the rules committee is so afraid of it that he drafted his own rule that he hopes will pass that would cause any new rules to no go into effect until next election cycle.
Here are some good articles:
http://www.pennlive.com/opinion/2016/07/who_will_spark_the_gop_delegat.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/06/21/a-republican-delegate-revolt-becomes-more-likely/


----------



## chimuelo

Trump might still win if our over educated unaccountable elites continue handing him victories.

No matter what the Amazon Post Sinaloan Times or Obama Biden Clinton Warren and Sanders say,, they now represent the rigged game.
This is what made Bernie and Trump so desirable.

For these so experienced entitled elites that rule over us commoners they show poor judgement consistently.
Obama calling immigrants to the UK funny looking people.?
Then spend 5 minutes ranting without naming that enemy, same with those workplace violence terrorists.
Then the AG and impeached President having a discussion in a hanger.?
Then the FBI has a 3 hour interrogation.
Like the sicilian godfathers did, the aides and Hillary use 1 lawyer.
Nice.
That way the first interrogations questions are revealed to the next witness since they share the same lawyer.
Nobody can rat out the other as it would be known to all.

This behavior is why Americans do not like their government.
Trump was basically dead after the judge.
Millions that never vote had a way out like me.
I was insulted and figured he cooked his own goose.
But since then these geniuses keep handing him victories.
Battleground state polls arent nearly as important as the sharp increase in voters registering as GOP in June 2016.

Definately a year to remember.

Cant vote for Trump.
Cant vote for Monica Lewinskys X Boyfriends wife either.
Im in a real pickle.


----------



## chimuelo

When you can't change things you may as well have satire...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=619194121577434&id=113849775445207


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> I've been following daily on Twitter. Simplified version, because a lot of things have been happening: Large group of delegates trying to get (1) a conscience clause to pass by the rules committee, or failing that, the general delegate population -or- (2) a change to rule 16, which would unbind all delegates on the first ballot.
> This movement has gathered enough steam that Trump has started taking about it, saying that it's "illegal".A member of the rules committee is so afraid of it that he drafted his own rule that he hopes will pass that would cause any new rules to no go into effect until next election cycle.
> Here are some good articles:
> http://www.pennlive.com/opinion/2016/07/who_will_spark_the_gop_delegat.html
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/06/21/a-republican-delegate-revolt-becomes-more-likely/


Thanks, Michael. I read through the stuff but I just can't buy it. If they dump Trump, they lose, simple as that. IMO, it just can't happen in a blood sport.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> When you can't change things you may as well have satire...
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=619194121577434&id=113849775445207


Hahaha, Jimmy-classic!


----------



## chimuelo

240 years ago racist low information voters in America won in thier Brexit.

Happy 4th of July to all of us funny looking folks.


----------



## Soundhound

All right, that does it. We're taking away your Fox News subscription for the duration. Don't make me ground your hallucinogens as well young man!



chimuelo said:


> 240 years ago racist low information voters in America won in thier Brexit.
> 
> Happy 4th of July to all of us funny looking folks.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, in 1776 you would have been a slave or an indentured servant with no voting rights and no social or economic mobility unless you were a professional criminal, and the punishments for that involved indentured servitude.

Happy 4th!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Thanks, Michael. I read through the stuff but I just can't buy it. If they dump Trump, they lose, simple as that. IMO, it just can't happen in a blood sport.


If we don't dump Trump, the GOP loses the election for cetain and there will be a mass exodus from the party. Of that, you can be sure.


----------



## NYC Composer

I see it the other way around Michael, but who's to know.


----------



## chimuelo

Actually playing near where a Fox from Fox News is dancing and being festive. She use to be Abbey from MSNBC.
She is FINE....Serious smackers and hams too.
I might be on FOX as we all signed waivers and got extra pay.

The Symphony is playing, Sheryl Crow, all sorts of cash flying around.

Nights like these make living around Southern racists a real treat.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I see it the other way around Michael, but who's to know.


You think The GOP has a chance with Trump? Not me. But that's not the reason I want the GOP to dump him. The GOP is no better off if he wins than if he loses. I strongly believe that the conservative GOP survives if we dump Trump. But gone forever if we don't. The fallout from a Trump nomination will be tremendous.


----------



## NYC Composer

I think that losing the rabid Trump supporters after he won the nomination fair and square will guarantee a loss. I think that while liberals find his election impossible, they haven't looked across the pond recently.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Michael K. Bain said:


> You think The GOP has a chance with Trump? Not me. But that's not the reason I want the GOP to dump him. The GOP is no better off if he wins than if he loses. I strongly believe that the conservative GOP survives if we dump Trump. But gone forever if we don't. The fallout from a Trump nomination will be tremendous.



I agree with that, but I don't think very many Republicans get what happened, and I have a feeling most Democrats don't either. The Republicans at the top of the party seem to believe that this will pass and then they'll just go back to POS Paul Ryan.

No. The problem is the policies.

I say this all the time: that's why this is the time to push for what we've needed for 15 years: big public investment. Never mind that interest rates are zero, Hillary could easily sell the message, because it's the easy way to get the economy firing on all cylinders again. There's a huge worldwide capital glut - companies aren't reinvesting their profits, because they don't have enough customers with money. The way to create the demand is simple: spend the money to create it. If everyone who wants a job has one, wages will go up and people will be in better jobs.

Even a Republican could understand that.

I also think that's what the country needs spiritually. We need to do more big things as a nation.


----------



## NYC Composer

Actually, companies are buying back their own stock and increasing dividends. Some of them also have cash hoards overseas which will not be coming back until there is some sort of temporary tax cut. Also, part of the reason banks are holding cash is the new capitalization requirements.

All of that said, I agree we need a huge infrastructure program. It would be nice if it could be well managed, which I find unlikely, but I still think we need to do it.


----------



## chimuelo

The worst formula was followed.
Instead of fixing the economy, a crappy health care plan that encourages less spending is what we got.
Romer was right. Bigger stimulus.
What we see now is no loans, except parents getting student loans which means no home re fi, no savings no spending....
Drop credit ratings to 500 and a 10% down and ypu have a much better forecast than we see now.
The next stimulus should be spent on infrastructure while credit is extended.

Otherwise Obamacare will continue to punish the middle class.
The very people it was meant to help.

Romer and Romer from Berkeley have some pretty interesting reads that the OECD is circulating.
Too bad Obama Reid & Pelosi didnt listen the last time.
1.2 TR wasted, and 6 years of 80,000,000,000 monthly to Wall Street.

Liberals are always wrong.
Give our Uranium to Russia, billions to Iran.
Waste the stimulus.
Serious losers.
But hey they did great for their investors and themselves.


----------



## NYC Composer

Now when I want to have a discussion, I always say "you're all 100% wrong." That usually gets people to take me seriously, because by saying so, I've established for a fact that I'm 100% right , and I just know they're going to want to continue discussing things so they can learn from me and agree with me 100%. Always.


----------



## NYC Composer

Today's Trump is so dear to my heart. I think the only ethnic group Donny T hadn't yet pissed off was the Jews, so of course being the egalitarian he is, he took care of that. Bags of money, Hillary and a Star of David from a white supremacist site. You can't make this shit up.


----------



## chimuelo

I keep saying this, but Trump has exposed the nuts and the corruption better than law enforcement.
KKK marching in California and Anaheim.
Glad to know who they are.

They shall write songs about Trump.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yep. I want a President who's down with the Klan. You too, I'm sure.


----------



## chimuelo

Well after a New Black Black Panthers sympathizer it's only fair.
But enough of these mens groups.
Clinton will set new standards, and Warren will easily handle any future Indian uprisings.


----------



## chimuelo

There's no law that says we can't have a President function from a Federal Prison.
This was actually a legal argument I read on.
I think I could get behind that.
Mafia ran Vegas well. We never heard about the murders.
Cash was everywhere.
Valet guys made twice as much in the 80s and early 90s.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, I don't think they'll put Trump in Federal prison for hate speech, but hey-you never know.


----------



## NYC Composer

Are you saying that black is the new black?


----------



## chimuelo

I'm with her.
Anyone with such a long string of failures is due for a win.
Law of averages.
Once the middle class has been shrunk I can climb to the 1% without fear of competition.
Much better for me than having millions competing for the same limited goods and services.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Regarding the ACA, why do people skip the benefits?
- Our kids are covered on our health plans longer.
- Insurance companies can no longer weasel out by claiming "ollie-ollie-oxen-free - pre-existing condition"
- Something like 17 million more people have coverage than before.
- There are better standards for insurers, so they can't take your money without paying out. Some complain that the cheapest insurance is no longer available, but low rates do no good if they're scams.
- The rate of health inflation slowed after the ACA was introduced.

What? Would you prefer health insurance that doesn't pay out? Is it good when pre-existing conditions force people to never change jobs, or when insurers can dig through your history to find excuses not to pay? Were the pre-ACA double digit health costs increases awesome or what? Was it good to have the whole group of 19-25 year olds who hadn't yet launched without even a catastrophic safety net?

People seem to have forgotten how truly horrible our health care system was. The US paid the most and got the least.

Yeah, I'd prefer single payer for basic coverage, but I'd never want to go back to what we had.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> Regarding the ACA, why do people skip the benefits?
> - Our kids are covered on our health plans longer.
> - Insurance companies can no longer weasel out by claiming "ollie-ollie-oxen-free - pre-existing condition"
> - Something like 17 million more people have coverage than before.
> - There are better standards for insurers, so they can't take your money without paying out. Some complain that the cheapest insurance is no longer available, but low rates do no good if they're scams.
> - The rate of health inflation slowed after the ACA was introduced.
> 
> What? Would you prefer health insurance that doesn't pay out? Is it good when pre-existing conditions force people to never change jobs, or when insurers can dig through your history to find excuses not to pay? Were the pre-ACA double digit health costs increases awesome or what? Was it good to have the whole group of 19-25 year olds who hadn't yet launched without even a catastrophic safety net?
> 
> People seem to have forgotten how truly horrible our health care system was. The US paid the most and got the least.
> 
> Yeah, I'd prefer single payer for basic coverage, but I'd never want to go back to what we had.


I could afford it before.


----------



## Soundhound

The right wing propaganda machine cherry picks instances where the new system doesn't work as well as the old. People who only read right wing information are under the impression that the old system was better. It also feeds into one of the most fundamental tenets of right wing politics: greed, masquerading as belief in rugged individualism and self sufficiency. It's the old Reaganesque welfare queen racist ploy. Works like a charm on low information voters, works doubly well on racists.

The ACA is hopefully just a step in the right direction, the thin edge of the wedge. If we get 8 years of Hillary Clinton and then 8 years of Elizabeth Warren, maybe we'll get single payer health care, which Clinton tried to push 25 years ago, but got run over by the insurance lobby. 

Progress takes time.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Yeah, I've heard that (about no longer being able to afford insurance.) Insurance companies are happy to accept your payments, but did the company pay out?

Years ago, my brother in-law got in a really bad accident. It was 100% the fault of the junk yard truck. The junk yard had low cost insurance through a company in the Cayman Islands. The minute my brother in-law made the $100K+ claim, the company paid all their holdings out in bonuses and claimed bankruptcy, presumably to set up the same scam under a new name. The junk yard owner ended up paying $5K out of pocket as that was all he could afford. But the medical bills were over $50K, his vehicle was totaled, and my brother in-law could no longer work as a carpenter, having a steel plate in his head where the skull should have been.

Never judge an insurance company by their ability to cash your checks.


----------



## Soundhound

Health insurance companies are parasites. They serve no purpose, get rid of them.


----------



## NoamL

Michael K. Bain said:


> I could afford it before.



"Mandating homeownership won't make your mortgage more affordable" - Barack Obama, in 2007, before he entered office and filled his administration with Clinton people :\



Soundhound said:


> The ACA is hopefully just a step in the right direction, the thin edge of the wedge.



The ACA is not "the thin edge of the wedge" in any meaningful sense (the public option would have been). If you believe that "health insurance companies are parasites" then how can you argue that a law which reinforces their existence and provides federal backstop guarantees for their continued profitability is a "step in the right direction."

In fact we just had a primary where Hillary Clinton argued that Sanders' single payer plan would "require dismantling Obamacare and starting over." Probably a false claim imo, but the point is the existence of Obamacare is now being used by some politicians as a way to excuse NOT going further...


----------



## JonFairhurst

Soundhound said:


> Health insurance companies are parasites. They serve no purpose, get rid of them.



Actually, they do serve a purpose, when run properly: to spread risk. 100 people pay a dollar, one unlucky person gets $90 to cover unexpected losses, and the insurance company keeps $10 for providing the service. Much of the $10 covers expenses and the remainder makes the whole thing profitable and worth running. It lets us all drive around without worrying about going bankrupt if we make an imperfect-human mistake.

The problem is when they pay out $10 and keep the $90 - or more. Or when you clearly deserve the $90 but the lawyerly fine print leaves you with nothing. That was what the pre-existing clauses enabled.

Some while ago, my daughter was 16 or so and was clearly covered for a particular treatment. The insurance company called me and started asking questions like, "has she ever had this before?" I knew exactly what they were trying to do, so I answered every question with, "this treatment is clearly covered by your policy." I knew to give zero information to their, "this phone call is being recorded for your protection" scam.

Frankly, I enjoyed speaking to them like a broken record. That said, I tip my hat to the world's greatest broken record performance:



I have no problem with real insurance. But I think fraud should be prosecuted. (Same thing with universities by the way...)


----------



## Soundhound

In a sense you're absolutely right, it's both a step back and a step forward. A giveaway to insurance companies, a Republican piece of legislation if there ever was one. But health care reform has been blocked at every turn for generations. The hope is that this removed the once seeming impossibility of ever taking steps toward moving to universal health care, like the rest of the civilized world.

<<The ACA is not "the thin edge of the wedge" in any meaningful sense (the public option would have been). If you believe that "health insurance companies are parasites" then how can you argue that a law which reinforces their existence and provides federal backstop guarantees for their continued profitability is a "step in the right direction.">>


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> Yeah, I've heard that (about no longer being able to afford insurance.) Insurance companies are happy to accept your payments, but did the company pay out?



Yes, I had a $30,000 surgery and was responsible for none of it after the deductible. I'd call that paying out.


----------



## Soundhound

Yes, when run properly, rather than as a monolithic cartel. Insurance companies siphon off monumental amounts of money.

One of the first accounts I worked on (advertising) was an international insurance company. The first time I went to their office (lower Manhattan) it was a sight to behold. There were Rembrants on the walls, carpets made of silk, it was like visiting the offices of a sultan.




JonFairhurst said:


> Actually, they do serve a purpose, when run properly: to spread risk. 100 people pay a dollar, one unlucky person gets $90 to cover unexpected losses, and the insurance company keeps $10 for providing the service. Much of the $10 covers expenses and the remainder makes the whole thing profitable and worth running. It lets us all drive around without worrying about going bankrupt if we make an imperfect-human mistake.
> 
> The problem is when they pay out $10 and keep the $90 - or more. Or when you clearly deserve the $90 but the lawyerly fine print leaves you with nothing. That was what the pre-existing clauses enabled.
> 
> Some while ago, my daughter was 16 or so and was clearly covered for a particular treatment. The insurance company called me and started asking questions like, "has she ever had this before?" I knew exactly what they were trying to do, so I answered every question with, "this treatment is clearly covered by your policy." I knew to give zero information to their, "this phone call is being recorded for your protection" scam.
> 
> Frankly, I enjoyed speaking to them like a broken record. That said, I tip my hat to the world's greatest broken record performance:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no problem with real insurance. But I think fraud should be prosecuted. (Same thing with universities by the way...)


----------



## Soundhound

The larger issue I guess is the idea of for profit health care. Just another pillar of Reagan era economics/political primitivism. Out with it. Other countries do seem to find the difficult balance between public and private interest in health care. The Netherlands I think has a system that uses both. But the Amurican system has been in need of massive overhaul and regulation. Get rid of the criminals lining their offices with silk carpets and Rembrants for starters... one day we'll have universal coverage.


----------



## chimuelo

Tis Tis you angry peasants.
This Government operates under the orders of Multinational Corporations and the #1 Banking Family of all time.
You don't get jack shit unless they say so.

They have agreed to put generational debt on all citizens.
They live off of debt. It's their profit.

But until the Sheep fall in line, they get nothing else.

Bernie Sanders knows that 80,000,000,000 a month for the last 7 years to Wall Street could be used.
But wealthy Liberals need kickbacks and campaign cash to continue the war on poverty,
and an end to wealth inequality.

So shut up and do as they say, not as they do.

Actually join a Union and buy Liberals.
Unlimited Vision and Dental, no co pay, no deductions.
That goes away in 2018, until we give them more campaign money.


----------



## Soundhound

I have union health insurance, comrade Jimmy.


----------



## JonFairhurst

BTW, here are some charts that show that George W. Bush made America suck. And Obama has already made America Great Again...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/06/30/barack-obama-has-made-america-great-again/?postshare=7761467749754969&tid=ss_tw


----------



## Soundhound

The only place he doesn't score well is in the middle east and with right wing Amurica. Hmmmmmm...


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, sports fans-I know you were avidly waiting for Today's TrumpCard-well.....

Apparently DJT did some musing about Saddam Hussein, who he admired for "killing terrorists so good."

Perhaps Donnie disremembers that along with "killing terrorists so good", he was also very good at killing Iraq's citizenry? Or maybe, like so many things....he just...never...knew.


----------



## chimuelo

Soundhound said:


> I have union health insurance, comrade Jimmy.


Imagine if the 6 bucks an hour taken from your pay goes back to take home pay (envelope).
ACA or single payer is workers wage increase.
Trade Unions don't want that money to disappear.
It either goes to Pension A fund, Annuity or wage increase.
They kept us happy with unlimited dental.

The problem is that there aren't enough millennials not already straddled with debt to fund single payer. Economic indicators are way below 3% GDP.
Raising deductibles to discourage non essential care for a few more years is where we are right now.

It's a piece of shit.
Bailed out insurance companies for years. Then Stop GAP expired in late 2015.
Now the 5 massive corporations this funded are dropping out of States like CA.
As goes California so does the nation.

Hillary will do the corporate way.
Single payer means less money for Liberals to share.
No way Bernie or anyone takes money from these wealthy whites.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Unfortunately, as my wife constantly tells me whenever I want to go and live in California, is the USA did it wrong when it came to Health Care. Way way too much money involved. Too late to change that now alas.

The NHS is a fantastic idea and was brought about in 1948 by the 45/50 Attlee Labour government. But what if the USA had the equivalent to the NHS? Imagine how many immigrants that would attracts in really vast numbers and the strain on taxpayers it would cause.


----------



## chimuelo

Carrying back packs full of drugs attracts immigrants.
You get paid immediately.
No fingerprinting, etc.
Then you go to a sanctuary city get drunk and shoot Americans, or run them over while you're drunk.
No problem.
NAFTA is more important than safety.
Plus the Heroin epidemic creates jobs.


----------



## chimuelo

I can't imagine how much my 8 balls would cost if we closed the borders.
So I support globalist Liberals like Hillary.
Maybe 8 balls will drop back down to Bush era prices.
80 bucks was nice.
4 of a kind with @ 5 quarter bet gets you a ball for free.


----------



## Soundhound

Cutting and pasting alert!:

In a sense you're absolutely right, it's both a step back and a step forward. A giveaway to insurance companies, a Republican piece of legislation if there ever was one. But health care reform has been blocked at every turn for generations. The hope is that this removed the once seeming impossibility of ever taking steps toward moving to universal health care, like the rest of the civilized world.





chimuelo said:


> Imagine if the 6 bucks an hour taken from your pay goes back to take home pay (envelope).
> ACA or single payer is workers wage increase.
> Trade Unions don't want that money to disappear.
> It either goes to Pension A fund, Annuity or wage increase.
> They kept us happy with unlimited dental.
> 
> The problem is that there aren't enough millennials not already straddled with debt to fund single payer. Economic indicators are way below 3% GDP.
> Raising deductibles to discourage non essential care for a few more years is where we are right now.
> 
> It's a piece of shit.
> Bailed out insurance companies for years. Then Stop GAP expired in late 2015.
> Now the 5 massive corporations this funded are dropping out of States like CA.
> As goes California so does the nation.
> 
> Hillary will do the corporate way.
> Single payer means less money for Liberals to share.
> No way Bernie or anyone takes money from these wealthy whites.


----------



## chimuelo

Indeed.
I saw how a great group plan worked.
Its like single payer in the sense that healthy young members cover retiring older members.
ACA is a shitty step in the right direction.
I do think Hillary will tell CEOs how its going to be.
Obama wanted anything he could get.
He tried but the concept is based on young healthy people signing up.
Seems they want nothing to do with it.
1% penalty on net income is meager.
Especially after student loans and rent.

Fighting more Tornados again.
Casino showrooms are becoming dangerous.
Check out Metropolis.
So far this year 3 systems have followed me from Metropolis, Nashville and Chicago.
This time my car was smasked by a rolling dumpster.
Have to get in on the passenger side.

Vegas cant come soon enough.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

The ACA is a huge step in the right direction, Chim! It was the best the Democrats could do, and it would be a lot better if those dickhead Republican governors weren't so upset that the Republicans lost even one of their attempts to block anything good.

You know about 20 million newly insured people and about people like me whose daughter can stay on our excellent policy until she's 26.

But we had friends over for dinner over the weekend. One of them survived intestinal cancer about 20 years ago, and he couldn't get health coverage until the ACA! I don't call that a shitty step.

As to the young and healthy paying in, that is a requirement for universal coverage no matter what we do, whether it's the hybrid system we have now, a public option, single payer, or a totally socialized medicine system. Everyone has to pay in, and people who can't afford to pay in have to be subsidized.

We've certainly been over that enough times here.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

By the way, I like the idea of a single-payer system, but Berniecare would create losers as well as winners.

We would be losers, because our insurance is paid through a union as an earned benefit. It's excellent coverage, and if we had to switch to a public policy, it would certainly not be as good. Same with anyone who has a good plan, most likely. Plus our taxes would go up to pay for public insurance that we don't need.

Now, I'd be happy to pay more in taxes if everyone were to get the same excellent coverage we get, but I don't think that's how it would work out.

That's how it is with most of his policy proposals: I agree with them until you get to the details. It's why I switched my support to Hillary early on.


----------



## chimuelo

Have you actually read the entire ACA Nick..?
You might be surprised to see the Used Car Salesmen Add Ons like an internal militia, etc.
That's right, a medical emergency virus breakout, here cometh the army of Contractors, no specific name either.

It helped remove Liberals, .....other than that it's great big shit sandwich, and the commoners must all take a bite.

Medicare for everyone.
Higher payroll deductions.
And for Gods sake we need the Mexicans. Free my peoples...
They have been the Chamber Of Commerce and Liberals secret economic weapon.
Amnesty would create a huge revenue of taxes.
Reagan used a few million to boost his numbers remember..?
The reason why we allow undocumented workers is cheap labor.
Whenever the elites need some greens, you fine illegals, and start taxing them.

They are more patriotic than some Americans I see teaching at our Universities.
Well, I guess Bernadine Dorhn deserves a 6 figure salary.
Chicago has a reputation to keep.
Too bad it's at the peril of so many innocent civilians killed in Liberal neighborhoods.

Earth.
Love it or Leave it.


----------



## NYC Composer

This is all well and good, but what's Trump's healthcare plan, other than "repeal and replace"? Anybody know?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Andrea Leadsom. There's a name to conjure with. Who is she? Your guess is as good as mine, but to me she looks like the real deal when it comes to bare faced opportunism. I would rather have The Nun than Andrea. What a fuck up the conservatives are today.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump will say whatever you want to hear just like Obama and Clinton.
The only way to lower costs is by having competition.
It wouldnt hurt having FDA lower thier current costs of 1 billion USD to bring a drug to market.
Also involve medical professionals instead of another "economist" that cant keep thier mouths shut while scamming millions from states for "consulting" fees.

I dont see Trump even winning.
Americans are going to vote for Hillary any way.
She had better offer some help for the middle class that always carries these failed Liberal concepts.

Middle class folks in general are family orientated, law abiding people.
Lost thier equity, wages went down, yet they just vote out Liberals and Conservatives at every chance.
Trump and Bernie became popular because the middle class is pissed off.

She had better do something quickly when she takes office.
Otherwise she gets 4 years and VP will be booted too.

Economy and national security are always the issue.
Middle class would be fine paying more money if they werent lied to and looked down upon by these faculty lounge heros.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Trump doesn't like Mosquitoes, that's for sure.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> She had better offer some help for the middle class that always carries these failed Liberal concepts



Liberal concepts are to blame for the disappearing middle class and rising inequality?

Better brush up on your basic macroeconomics, Chim. Liberals want the government to have a larger role in the economy when it's needed - like now.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> Trump doesn't like Mosquitoes, that's for sure.


Wow. Just saw that.

As an audio sensitive person, I've noticed that he's changed his vocal delivery to a declamatory bray, a guttural roar when he wants to make his points. Interesting.

I wonder if politicians have vocal coaches? Elizabeth Warren always sounds breathless and over excited. Cruz always sounded like he was speaking to heaven. Interesting stuff.


----------



## chimuelo

Then it's safe to assume Dr. Carson smoked weed before interviews.


----------



## NYC Composer

Dr Carson appears to be a somnambulist.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Wow. Just saw that.
> 
> As an audio sensitive person, I've noticed that he's changed his vocal delivery to a declamatory bray, a guttural roar when he wants to make his points. Interesting.
> 
> I wonder if politicians have vocal coaches? Elizabeth Warren always sounds breathless and over excited. Cruz always sounded like he was speaking to heaven. Interesting stuff.


Cruz _was_ always talking to Heaven. He knew he needed divine intervention to defeat the Orange Man Cult.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Dr Carson appears to be a somnambulist.


True, true, but he had the best song at the debates:


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> True, true, but he had the best song at the debates:



hahahahahaha!!!!!!! friggin brilliant.


----------



## chimuelo

Sure Nick.
They screw up health care worse than what it is was, ruin the education system, and of course we'll need them to come and fix what they ruined.
Sad plan.
Better plan.
Remove the multi millionaires and replace them with real public servants.

2.7% GDP for 8 years says these losers should go.
No need to pay back the billions paid to investors, just go.
They can't be mad...
They became multi millionaires...

I wish them well as lobbyists.


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> ...They screw up health care worse than what it is was...



Wrong. They fixed the pre-existing condition escape clause, which made old-timey health insurance almost worthless in many instances and prevented people from changing jobs. Get laid off and you would never be covered for an ongoing condition again. That was completely unacceptable.

Of course, single payer would have fixed that, but it wasn't politically viable.

With an insurance-based system, if you eliminate pre-existing condition clauses, people could skate along without buying insurance, wait until they get sick and then sign up when they need to cash in. That behavior could bankrupt the system.

So we had three choices:
1) Pre-existing condition clauses, which sucked eggs,
2) Single-payer, which isn't a choice if you can't get the votes, and
3) (Semi)-mandatory insurance, which is what we have.

The ACA is a clear improvement over what we had. Want something better? Vote all who oppose single payer out of Congress - and that likely includes 99% of Republicans.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I could swear that Frank Zappa came back from the dead to write the Ted Cruz song. All it needs is a couple good vibraphone rolls.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Chim, I heard a great quote from Fran Liebowitz the other day: 

"Think before you speak [or in your case, post]. Read before you think."

Love you, don't love your posts.


----------



## Soundhound

Exactamundo.



JonFairhurst said:


> The ACA is a clear improvement over what we had. Want something better? Vote all who oppose single payer out of Congress - and that likely includes 99% of Republicans.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Getting to a single-payer system from where we are now... well, first of all it's the wrong battle for right now. It's not going to happen. Why bother? We just had the battle of the century against the forces of evil to get the system we have now (ignoring Chim's opinion, which I just can't take seriously).

But anyway, how do you propose to change to the single-payer system? Rousing speeches in a Brooklyn accent just aren't enough.

Aw, the whole conversation is just stupid. It's a waste of time. Fight for a public option if you want, but don't shout about single-payer.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> The ACA is a clear improvement over what we had. Want something better? Vote all who oppose single payer out of Congress - and that likely includes 99% of Republicans.



There are many other reasons to vote 100% of Republicans out of everywhere. They just SUCK. SUCK!

But most Democrats I like would oppose trying to move to a single-payer system from here. It wouldn't be better.


----------



## Soundhound

Remember Bullworth? Warren Beatty played a guy running for president (or he was the president?) who decided to go up against the insurance lobby. They killed him. Can't remember if it was before or after Hillary tried to get single payer through...


----------



## NYC Composer

Meanwhile back at the Trump ranch, the liberals on my TV who were crowing about Hillary's fund raising prowess (a dubious skill as far as I'm concerned) might not have noticed that Trump raised 60 million in June.

Meanwhile, what the hell? Cops mowing down black men, a murderer mowing down cops...what the fuck is happening to my country?

Senate hearings, regardless of subject, are a satirical read on oppositional politics. They are absolutely ridiculous.


----------



## chimuelo

I say shear your wool before you soak in the lies.
The program is a failure. It needs to be changed.
If you somehow think giving more money to CEOs is great because dedicated liars say so, you have my sympathy.

It has failed on every standard used to sell it.

It's success was based on self funding by 2016.
Now that insurance companies are not getting the above 1,000,000 stop gap bail outs they're leaving.

There's also the lies about how many now have coverage.
27,000,000 people still have no coverage.
Sanders team has valid arguments.
All the rest of the DNC simply replies people will suffer if the program changes.
Same with all of thier unintended consequence legislation.
Same as poverty programs.
If you try to fix it you hate poor people.
More emotional Crap from failed concepts.

But hey I hope those who continue to benefit can do so under another program not based on profits.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Please tell us about the awesome GOP alternatives that would not reintroduce pre-existing condition clauses.

After something like 50 GOP-led, failed votes to repeal the ACA, one can understand the reluctance of the DNC to open it up for changes while in the minority. One can throw stones, but without a viable political path, it's just whining.


----------



## chimuelo

Its called grandstanding and jive so the Sheep believe they're "trying" to change laws.
They chose to fund it.
And that is why they'll be removed.

Personally I want China to repossess the USA and save us from the lying bastards and criminals making hundreds of millions "serving" us.....
Kind of like the idea of scientists and engineers as leaders as opposed to globalist elites lawyers and criminals.


----------



## chimuelo

We are a nation of laws....
All unenforcable.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I'm still hearing the complaining. And I'm still not hearing politically viable solutions.

Maybe some email inquiries will fix things. These rampant violations of employer IT policies could destroy our way of life!

I wish that the media would call out political parties when their actions selfishly serve reelection goals and have nothing to do with solving real problems. Ya know, funding research on zika without tying it to partisan BS might be a good start.


----------



## chimuelo

I think Hispanics will out populate the wealthy whites bring back work ethics and family values.
Then become America's new racists and new Phobe family member


----------



## NYC Composer

What's a Phobe? Btw, how does the Donald intend to fix healthcare? (he asked, again.)


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> I say shear your wool before you soak in the lies.
> The program is a failure. It needs to be changed.
> If you somehow think giving more money to CEOs is great because dedicated liars say so, you have my sympathy.
> 
> It has failed on every standard used to sell it.
> 
> It's success was based on self funding by 2016.
> Now that insurance companies are not getting the above 1,000,000 stop gap bail outs they're leaving.
> 
> There's also the lies about how many now have coverage.
> 27,000,000 people still have no coverage.
> Sanders team has valid arguments.
> All the rest of the DNC simply replies people will suffer if the program changes.
> Same with all of thier unintended consequence legislation.
> Same as poverty programs.
> If you try to fix it you hate poor people.
> More emotional Crap from failed concepts.
> 
> But hey I hope those who continue to benefit can do so under another program not based on profits.


I would rather elect politicians who try to help poor people and fail than elect politicians who try to help rich people and succeed.


----------



## chimuelo

Hillary will.
Her globalist view will ensure her daughter and thier children will continue helping too.

She resided over 12,000,000 more people forced into poverty and is importing as many as possible.
If Chelsea decides to carry on the family business her parents will have set her up nicely.

The Phobe family is a new edition to Liberal talking points.
Zena Phobe is the girl, her two brothers Islama and Homa are popular too.
I am a Wi Fia Phobe as I hate crappy little mixers with Wi-Fi.
We tried another one out and it's as useless at the X32R mixers.

I want to stop using my Toft. Best live sound mixer for under 5 grand around.
Sadly the best engineers are drunks and spill shit then rub it into the fader slots.
My Sennheiser vocal mics must have pulp removed from them every week as some of my mates are talented drunks too and chug Tequila Sunrises all night.


----------



## NYC Composer

Real men do not drink Tequila Sunrises. Well, real straight men anyway.


----------



## NYC Composer

"Globalist". Gosh, speaking of talking points, Chim. "Pocahontas." I mean, you just adopt 'em all and spit em back out. Isn't that sort of sheepish?


----------



## chimuelo

I must admit I truly love Trumps branding.
I see those he brands as Caucasiaphobes. 
In election years they are ashamed of being white, then once elected go back to being white Liberals and collect millions while serving thier minorities.


----------



## NYC Composer

When I see people who don't give a shit about anyone but themselves (and there seem to be quite a few of them) I'm ashamed to be part of the same species.
When I see rich and upper middle class privileged people who think the playing field is even from birth, I wonder if it's stupidity or pure venality. When I see poor Republicans kissing the asses of their rich owners and voting for their big tax cuts, I wonder if it's Stockholm syndrome.


----------



## Soundhound

This is a Karl Rovian worthy quote. To use the unctuous word favored by today's brand of bullshit artist, can you 'unpack' that for us? Bibliography required. We thank you in advance.



chimuelo said:


> She [p]resided over 12,000,000 more people forced into poverty and is importing as many as possible.
> If Chelsea decides to carry on the family business her parents will have set her up nicely.


----------



## chimuelo

Dude he is always wrong, I'm always right.
Plus I agree with everyone here.
Rich whites, regardless of affiliation have failed, consistently.
Perhaps phasing out multi millionaire and billionaire whites has come.
8-12 years max, then Hispanics will make America a better place.

And when you thank Jesus for your blessings, try and pronounce it right.
Hey Zeus....phonetically speaking since sympathy must be shown to those who were victims of the free indoctrination referred to as public school.
Even something as simple as education that costs hundreds of billions annually, they can't even perform a simple chore.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Chim, if you were in the army, you'd be the General of Generalizations.


----------



## chimuelo

Ankyu.

My heart sank as I read the Act Blue email telling me Bernie is for Wall Street now, and please continue your support.
Not a big fan of Wall Street Bankers, CEO, Jon Corzine Clinton types.

To avoid a war within my own family Ill probably have to vote for Warren Sanders Clinton Wasserman Shultz and other Wall Street advocates.....


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> I'm still not hearing politically viable solutions.



We're on the same side, Jon, but the problem isn't political viability, it's that there *are* no other solutions.

As I explained earlier, and you well know, it always comes down to the same thing no matter what system you have: for everyone to be covered, everyone has to pay in and those who can't afford to pay in have to be subsidized.

When you hear Republicans talk about "repeal and replace," they're lying - as always. Plus they don't deserve to live in this country, they're so vile. The nerve of them, denying people healthcare. Disgusting.


----------



## NYC Composer

I strongly recommend this book, which is chock full of some very interesting facts about class and the inherited poverty of disadvantaged white people in America. This is the history of America we probably should have been taught in grade school instead of the jingoistic nonsense that we WERE taught about American exceptionalism and our brave, bold democratic founders.

For the record, I don't use the title of the book as a description of anyone, as I see it as the equivalent of the n word-however, it's used by the author as one of many terms utilized by the aristocratic class to describe poor white folks.


----------



## chimuelo

They still teach fairy tales in our children's indoctrination centers.
Which is why it is important for parents to actually raise their own children.

Published documents are always the best source of information.
If you lie there you lose money, hence the motivation to speak the truth.

Newspapers, well they serve a different purpose, and fake Twitter followers, facebooks investigative tools, they serve a master and an agenda.
Payable in cash via campaign ads costing 2500% more than normal, etc.


----------



## NYC Composer

Indoctrination or no, the best way to keep the poor down is to deny them proper early nutrition and access to reasonable quality education. Public was and is the only option for many. Even the less expensive Catholic schools (which many could not afford without scholarship) are vanishing.


----------



## chimuelo

Replace and repeal means they want to win the battle of who got it right first.
I remember it was an evil CEO white racist named Romney who was the first politician to implement Obamacare.
Obama copy/pasted and lost, get over it.

You will see a better plan from Hillary, but CEOs have to be out of the loop.
I have no issue with CEOs making 300% more than their fellow workers, especially if they share their enormous wealth like our athletes do.
But do we really have to subsidize Liberal CEOs to the tune of Hunderds of millions?

Like any foundation they can claim, "oh that money is separate, it goes over here"......
Planned Parenthood, same scam, they get 500,000,000 from tax payers, yet the money gets kicked back to wealthy multi millionaire Liberals trying to keep their jobs get millions of our dollars for their campaign..........plain truth there, use the MIT economic geniuses all you want and balance your sheets, etc. Its theft of tax payer dollars.

THIS is why people are upset, then when they complain the usual "Racists, anti Poor a phobes, blah..blah"...

Truth be told, a Republican Congress sad to say will get credit for this as the Deep State needs 2 parties, law of averages say they will be buddies with Insurance Gangsters for the next 8 years...


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> Indoctrination or no, the best way to keep the poor down is to deny them proper early nutrition and access to reasonable quality education. Public was and is the only option for many. Even the less expensive Catholic schools (which many could not afford without scholarship) are vanishing.



Indeed, and by giving them just enough to stay poor is the perfect solution.
Have the school feed them and the church too.

And there's still enough left over for the puppies and kittens.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, I agree. We should give them more. Better education, decent healthcare, better childhood nutrition, good job training. I have this crazy idea-maybe we should give a man a fish and teach him to fish-AT THE SAME TIME. Radical!

Anyway, I'm glad we agree.

Btw, I don't give a good goddamn about puppies and kitties. I'm not a pet person, just a people person. in this country, pets generally get treated better.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> "I have no issue with CEOs making 300 percent more"
> 
> Your math is so off it's hilarious.
> 
> 
> 
> "THIS is why people are upset, then when they complain the usual "Racists, anti Poor a phobes, blah..blah"..."
> 
> 40% of the people in this country don't know the name of the Vice President, who their Senators are or what our three branches of government are called, but they're upset because of fund mismanagement. Mmm.
> 
> You know why people get called racist? Because they are. It's so simple a child could do it! Start yelling about the blacks or the Mexicans as if they were all criminals and rapists...well....


----------



## chimuelo

Jamie Diamond probably gets more than 300%...
But lower level guys like Barney Frank and other anti Wall Street Bankers get just under a million.
Anything over that means your rich, and must pay a fair share.
So blending stock option to avoid paying more taxes is just another loophole.

I was just relieved to hear Al Gore got his 500,000,000 check for a cable network not even worth 5 million,
just in time to beat the Bush Tax Cuts expiration.

The thought of a rich white Liberal actually having to pay his fair share,...the horror of it.


----------



## NYC Composer

https://www.glassdoor.com/research/ceo-pay-ratio/

There's your 300%.

Barney's not a CEO.

Sorry, is Al Gore still in office? I thought after Bush stole the election, he went back to the private sector, while Bush took us into two disastrous wars that cost the taxpayers a thousand times more than Gore ever did...but you go ahead and bring Al up any time you need an irrelevant talking point.


----------



## chimuelo

I always bring up Obama's class warfare points since he's still POTUS.

When Hillary starts her 4 year term, I will most likely continue with the Liberal Class warfare talking points and refer to everyone as racists too.
When our leaders say this is how America is, my patriotic duty is to follow thier lead.

And I am glad we agree that rich white Conservatives and Liberals are losers.
Can't win wars, can't solve issues as easy as school choice...
But they are incredibly wealthy from continued failures.

Hispanics will just have to show these wealthy elites how to overcome thier decades long failure rates.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

"Repeal and replace" is Republicans' enthusiasm for voiding a major Democratic victory at the expense of lots of people's health coverage. That's one reason I despise the f-ing AHs so much. They are pigs. F that whole party.

And the fact that it's the same thing as Romneycare is proof they suck. There was no way to get a better system. Political reality is as real as any other. Unfortunately, the Republican party exists.

By the way, a public option is in the draft Democratic platform, to be voted for during the convention. Whether it can happen is another matter, but I hope so.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> I always bring up Obama's class warfare points since he's still POTUS.
> 
> When Hillary starts her 4 year term, I will most likely continue with the Liberal Class warfare talking points and refer to everyone as racists too.
> When our leaders say this is how America is, my patriotic duty is to follow thier lead.
> 
> And I am glad we agree that rich white Conservatives and Liberals are losers.
> Can't win wars, can't solve issues as easy as school choice...
> But they are incredibly wealthy from continued failures.
> 
> Hispanics will just have to show these wealthy elites how to overcome thier decades long failure rates.


Wait-Obama is actually Al Gore?? What a surprise!


----------



## chimuelo

Hey Larry in wealthy white Liberal land he's probably referred to as a "consultant" which in working folks lingo mean he's there to fight wealth inequality for all working people.....
Gotta help the little people, and being in a Bank makes it much easier..

There might be a temporary act of kindness from the Liberal Party thanks to Bernie, but as soon as the rich whites win we already saw them in action during the various Super Majority and Super Committee, or the Simpson Bowles fake show.

Let's hope they do the right thing for once instead of obeying their global masters like GE, WTO, IMF (Lawyers for Unionized Liberal Federal workers.)
The Trade deal will be the final chapter for wealthy white Liberals if they do the usual Deep State, no FOIA for earmarks crap.
Liberals claim to be against it ever since Trump starting quacking, we'll see if they "refine" their positions...

I miss the old Democrats that represented Trade Unions and the middle class.

Pray Tulsi Gabbard gains some more power, she might even make Warren stop kissing Wall Street/Clinton Ass,...doubtful now that she is getting 6 figured salaries from multiple sources.


----------



## Soundhound

Warren kissing Wall Street ass? You've been into the ayahuasca again. Moderation is your friend!


----------



## NYC Composer

Sorry Chimmy, I'll take 8 years of Obama over 8 years of Bush any day and twice on Sunday. Bernie doesn't matter, Warren doesn't matter unless she gets picked for veep. Only people that matter right now are named Clinton and Trump.


----------



## chimuelo

So all the years of evil CEOs and Wall Street vrs. Main Street speeches it's disheartening to see consumer advocates cheering on thier Wall Street Queen.
Warren felt so bad the next day she gave a speech about Amazon and Google being monopolies.
Just another Jesse Jackson shake down artist. Give her 100k she'll go away.
Speaking of Jackson....his boy got out of jail for stealing campaign money and vows to get his Rolex watches bitches and Ho's back.

Dad must have paid the wife hush money taken from his investors.

A nation of misguided Sheep...


----------



## JonFairhurst

NYC Composer said:


> ...Only people that matter right now are named Clinton and Trump.



And Gary "Spoiler" Johnson. He won't become president, but could influence the race. And if the GOP continues to implode, Mr. Johnson's party might be on the rise.

Frankly, I'd be happy to see it. The libertarian conservative is more aligned with the conservatives whom I know in the Pacific Northwest. They aren't Cruz-type social conservatives. They aren't Romney-type big-business conservatives. They aren't McCain-type military conservatives. And they aren't Trump-style bigots. (Okay, they might not be all that aware of white privilege, but I have yet to see anybody under 70 wearing a Trump hat up here.) The feeling is more, "Don't tread on me." than, "White Jesus rode a dinosaur on his way to destroy Planned Parenthood and reprogram gay people with his Confederate flag."

While I might not agree with libertarians economically, I align with true social libertarians. And if they are willing to think about how to solve problems, rather than play petty political games, we might get back to a healthy competition of ideas, rather than the freak show that our current Congress delivers.


----------



## Soundhound

Can you unpack that suitcase and lay the items neatly on the bed so I can see them? What are you talking about, specifically? No metaphors, just subjects, objects and verbs for the moment please.




chimuelo said:


> So all the years of evil CEOs and Wall Street vrs. Main Street speeches it's disheartening to see consumer advocates cheering on thier Wall Street Queen.
> Warren felt so bad the next day she gave a speech about Amazon and Google being monopolies.


----------



## chimuelo

Just being patriotic and continuing the chant of 2009...
Evil CEOs, Wall Street Banks killing Main Street which we will fix, etc.etc.
Until there's a new POTUS my duty is to continue pointing out the wealth inequality.
Of course nothing changed, but the fight must go on, and having wealthy multi millionaires and billionaires level the playing field for us is the only way to fix the wrongs.

Of course I don't believe in the Liberal Conservative Theology.
But during the endless fundraising election cycles it's a great source of satire.


----------



## chimuelo

Actblue money goes to Tulsi now.
Its called reform the party.
Basically get rid of the wealthy multi millionaire careerists who have decades of failure.
But they have been extremely successful for themselves.
Actually quite Conservative with thier money.

With our money.....?
Pretty obvious.

She is the future.


----------



## Soundhound

That's nice, and I agree completely. But it does't clarify your inference that Warren is in with Wall Street.


----------



## chimuelo

She supports a Wall Street candidate.
That's her choice.
Tulsi refuses to change her positions with the next strong breeze.

Tulsi is the future.
You're going to like her.

I'll send her money every month for whatever cause she is involved in.
I owe her that much just for the fact she served in a war zone in harm's way so rich white Liberals could continue fundraising.

These people haven't done Jack shit for anyone.
They need to be defeated publicly.
The way Trump smoked the GOP putos...


----------



## Soundhound

Dunno Jimmy, Warren doesn't seem dirty to me. You're voting for Clinton yourself, right? You don't seem particularly dirty to me either.


----------



## chimuelo

Zen Master says we'll see....
Hillary looking at an Admiral as VP is most reassuring.
No more faculty lounge philospers please.


----------



## chimuelo

Slightly OT but already recieving gig offers from agents working with National Maritime Union for a victory tour with 500 million dollar NCL cruise ship.
Seems theyre banking on a Hillary win.
Master Suites for 10k a night.
Got my stsrt there when I was 18.
So young I was forced to stay on board in port cities.
Hung with babysitters and hair dressers.

Money from campaigns is flying around everywhere.....


----------



## chimuelo

Im for Wall Street and the be yun azz....


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Slightly OT but already recieving gig offers from agents working with National Maritime Union for a victory tour with 500 million dollar NCL cruise ship.
> Seems theyre banking on a Hillary win.
> Master Suites for 10k a night.
> Got my stsrt there when I was 18.
> So young I was forced to stay on board in port cities.
> Hung with babysitters and hair dressers.
> 
> Money from campaigns is flying around everywhere.....


If ya need a decent kybd player/guitarist/bassist/vocalist/sorta mandolinist/sorta fiddle player/drunk, I'm available.


----------



## chimuelo

Well I often get the title of contractor.
I take no extra fees but only demand the musicians load in gear as I do.
If they miss the load in the working members split the deposit.
Nobody gets paid until the gear is loaded.
I do this as I often work with Rock Gods.
I often get extra pay from load in and load out.
So if you wanna play the star you can, you get less.

Im anxious to see the official journey name as they always have themes.
We use to make fun of Aruba by calling it the sexual assault cruise.


----------



## NYC Composer

I played the Divi Divi in Aruba in 1975. Sheesh


----------



## chimuelo

I never gigged there until 89 but you played at the place with stuffed Sharks at the registration lobby?
Watched Brazilian girls volleyball team on the north shore....I even learned basic Portuguese, paid off too.
Took a breather in time too see Justice Ginsberg today.
Guess I missed the show, but Damn.
Don't Liberals understand the more they try to rally people attacking Trump the more Independents side with the GOP?
He spends nothing she spends millions.
The last few weeks should be fun.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Very interesting events unfolding right now at the meeting of the RNC Rules Committee. Priebus and pro-Trump members are trying to work deals with the anti-trump members to do away with the vote on the conscience clause. If these anti-trump members cave, it's over for the efforts to stop Trump from getting the nom. And if that happens, the GOP has been handed over to the nationalist populists.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Update: The pro-Trump members offered this deal to the anti-Trump members, in exchange for a peaceful convention, with no effort to oust Trump: the first 4 primaries in the 2020 election would be closed. Anti-Trump members rejected the deal.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael, it's gonna be Trump.


----------



## Soundhound

Have you seen the platform the GOP is going to put forward? Talk about radical. Holy Toledo.


----------



## chimuelo

It really is larger than the quaint old GOP.
Don King and Tyson are going to be quite the show.
Nigel Farage, Khaddaffis son, George Wallace Jr....
Most of my favorite racists.
And of course Eric Holders bros from the New Black Panther Party will keep the cops busy outside protesting with weapons.

The U.N. and Justice Ginsberg are really helping out too.
I'm thinking about going as I will be in Louisville.
Never been to a rally with black white Hispanic Indian and Asian racists.

One thing is certain, Trump is a cultural phenomenon.
His shtick has changed politics forever.

United Racists of America.
That's got a nice ring to it.....


----------



## JonFairhurst

Just yesterday, I witnessed a passive-aggressive racist act. 

I had just sat down on an airport rental car shuttle just a few seats behind the mid-door. The white guy across from me is taking up a lot of room, crossing his legs in the aisle with his foot sticking out. There are still a lot of people and he's blocking the path to the seats behind us. A black man gets on the bus, walks up next to Mr. Privilege and waits a moment. No movement. The man says, "excuse me", clearly feeling disrespected. Mr. Privilege doesn't look directly at the man, mutters, "sorry", and bends his foot back a couple of inches. After the man takes his seat in the back row of the bus, the jerk slowly uncrosses his legs and stops blocking the aisle. Maybe you're thinking, "he was probably just distracted." Maybe so, but the lack of contrition spoke volumes. 

And here it is, over 60 years since Rosa Parks took her famous bus ride.

I stayed in my seat as everybody exited. The man walked up, said "go ahead" to me and I replied, "after you." It was just a small gesture, but after enduring that ride in the back of the bus, I felt that he was owed some public respect.

BTW, next time you're tempted to make light of racism, play this song back in your head before posting.


----------



## Soundhound

I always thought Donald Trump was disgusting, and easy fodder for endless hilarity. I don't think it's funny now. The right wing has used and nurtured racism for generations, and Trump has made it okay to come right out with it. In reaction to this nightmare, the GOP has decided its time to make it mandatory to teach the bible in public schools. I do hope this is indeed the death rattle of the modern radical Republican party and that it's not going to continue.


----------



## chimuelo

I agree.
God split the Union schools a while back.
Now Liberal theology is taught.
I want to take that class Jon did about passive racive micro aggression stuff.

Too bad Alderman Union Bosses and thier hordes of staffers cost so much they cant teach beuatiful things like music or shop class in expensive public schools.

Praise The Lord...


----------



## Soundhound

And Paul Ryan is whining that the Democrats are far far far left. The ignorant Fox News watching audience, one assumes, thinks he's telling the truth. These Republicans are dangerous radicals. We live in very dangerous times.


----------



## NYC Composer

I didn't see your story as specifially racist, Jon. To me it seemed more like my other bugaboo- entitlement. It's that guy's world, the fact that you live in it is just an annoyance.

I take the subway every day to and from work. People of color outnumber white people at least 10-1 in the hours I work. People, unless they're crazy, tend to be minimally polite and stone faced about the crazy ones-people other than groups of youths, who are way too loud and often boorish. I'm an age-ist!


----------



## chimuelo

Entitlement....?
It's nothing more than a tired thoughtless fool whose mommy and daddy didn't spank some manners into him.

For Pete's sake I was the ONLY Hispanic/non black guy taking the Blue Line on 69th in Philly to work everyday.
It was packed with black folks, mostly in Black Sheets/robes with eye slits and singing morning prayers.
Thought I was in Sudan or something, but if I drove to work I'd spend an hour trying to park when I returned to my section 8 Soviet Cubicle after 12-14 hour day pouring runways at Terminal F. 
So public transpo was the way.

I stepped over many out stretched feet and didn't even think the black dudes were rude or privileged.

Wherever such analytical thought is taught is great I suppose if you're into sensitivity training, gender awareness and all of that stuff.
I run with the brotha's and can guarantee you they don't think of that silly stuff.

I'll never know the guilt white folks suffer with, I truly feel for them.
Im glad my ancestors didn't own slaves, I'd probably be all confused and shit too...


----------



## NYC Composer

My ancestors were hoping not to be conscripted by the Czar or traded to the Nazis for bottles of vodka.
But then, I'm not white according to the KKK.


----------



## Soundhound

As Woody Allen said, my ancestors were too busy being raped by Cossacks.


----------



## Soundhound

I like how Republicans reliably fall back on the guilty white trope when trying to undermine progressive analysis. I don't feel guilty about slavery or Jim Crow or genocide of indigenous north american people, but I do think it sucked/sucks.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Glad to hear that those who didn't see the event know what the jerk was thinking. 

Did he need spanking as a kid? In my opinion, authoritarian punishment only teaches people the value of cheating without getting caught. 

Let's say the guy across from me was a supremacist. What? Do you think he's gonna jump up, call the guy the N-word, and demand that he go back where he came from? That's not the way it works in 2016, unless you're Trump's butler. Instead, it's passive aggressive stuff like voter ID laws and getting pulled over because, "that's too nice a car for this neighborhood."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/senate-s-only-black-republican-talks-racism-senate-floor-n609516

Do I know what the jerk was thinking? No. But I have enough empathy to hear the tone of the voice of the man who was blocked. He was flat out disrespected. And, as you know, respect is one of the five fundamentals of ethics (along with compassion, honesty, fairness, and responsibility.)

BTW, did you hear the latest? Trump made up a story that people held a moment of silence for the murderer who killed the cops in Dallas. If he wasn't race baiting, why would he make it up? And even if it were true, why would he make a point about this on Fox News, rather than talk about, say, policy, or the convention, or the platform, or his VP pick, or Hillary?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-propagator-of-race-hatred-and-violence

Racism in 2016 always comes packaged with an excuse.


----------



## chimuelo

Personally Ill sit back and watch whites and blacks keep reliving thier past.
Us hispanics will take over since yuze guys are out of your freakin minds with this left right namby pamby shit.
So guilt ridden you want women to save your failing system.
Youre all washed up, shot.....

Bunch of girly men.


----------



## NYC Composer

yep, anybody who gives a shit about anybody else is def a girly man. Unless they're a woman, in which case I guess they're a girly woman?

My experience of people who constantly suggest other people are pussies is that they're testicularly challenged themselves.


----------



## Soundhound

Oh Jimmy. Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy....


----------



## JonFairhurst

Yeah, a bit of disrespect on a shuttle bus in San Diego doesn't amount to much. Sometimes people don't get served in order, which is better than when they weren't served at all. Take it to the next step and people can't buy or rent in certain neighborhoods. Or they're qualified but don't get hired. (I saw a previous boss do that. Yeah, just try to prove it was because of race. He had his excuses all figured.) Or they get pulled over again and again for piddling stuff. And maybe they get shot when reaching for their wallet as they were told to do. (I believe that the stock excuse in that situation is that, "the video doesn't show everything.")

I choose to take action against racism. Without apology. And not from guilt. (The irony is when people accuse you of "white guilt" their goal is to make you feel guilty about it!)


----------



## chimuelo

Nothing wrong with girly men.
Strong women need bitches too.


----------



## chimuelo

Hispanics vote for wealthy white Liberals because we know theyll keep blacks in the section 8 ghettos they own.
Voting for Trump means black youth will have job oppurtunities and leave the ghetto striving to become middle class independents.
With wealthy Liberals its guarenteed charter schools will close, no vouchers, no school choice.
Sad for the brothas as theyll join many others in jail or the cemetary.
Chicago pretty much is the epitomy of Liberalism.
Nobody is liberated, murder rates are off of the historical record.
That type of soft bigotry is the real racism.
Much more dangerous than somebodys foot halfway in the isle.
A vote for wealthy Liberals is a vote for segregation.

Why is it racism is ALWAYS used in an election year, hasnt worked for you guys yet.
Everybody knows blacks are suffering under the wealthy Liberals.

But I will study more on the racive passive safe spaces micro aggression stuff.
The wealthiest of whites teach this at Universities instead of math or science, must be great stuff.


----------



## NYC Composer

The wall project should intrigue you, Jimmy, if you're interested in getting back into construction. Donald loves Hispanics. He told us so. Mexico's going to pay for it. Think it'll be Union?


----------



## chimuelo

No way. 
Prevailing wage since its Federal.
Google the Davis-Bacon Act.
We were getting 48 bucks an hour 20 years ago building public schools. 
Nobody wants Union pay as it would mean the Unions take 24 of the 48 to keep members from suffering under CEO gangsters and the Liberal ACA.

Trump loves all races, just ask him.
I howled when he said wheres my African American at? There he is, come on up here.
Poor black guy didnt want to be seen as in Liberal ghettos Im sure it aint cool to go against thier wealthy white regulators of poverty.

Dont worry guys Trump wont win.
His job was to crush the GOP like him and Bill discussed before he entered the race.

You got your wealthy whites for 4 more years.

I hope she gives away free courses in racism.
I gotta learn some more of this racive aggressive safe spaces privilige stuff.
Im sure hispanics are unknowingly offending these little darlings and always want to be on the right side of things.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael, it's gonna be Trump.


Unfortunately, it sure looks that way. The vote in the rules committee failed. Mike Lee is not happy about it all. Hints that it's not over. But I bet it is. The delegates could have an open revolt on the floor, but I reckon they won't. 

This whole Trump debacle really taught me a sad fact; most people put party over principle and love of country. It doesn't matter which side of the aisle they are on.

For a while now, I've considered myself conservative first, and then Republican, but short of a miracle, this primary election cycle totally erases the Republican part. I am now, and will forever be, a voter without a party.


----------



## chimuelo

Welcome to the majority MB.

We'll get the rest of that wool off ya soon enough.

As for the other Sheep in this thread, I'm afraid free school did such a thorough job of indoctrination they'll vote for anything the Shepards tell them....


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Welcome to the majority MB.
> 
> We'll get the rest of that wool off ya soon enough.



My wool has been slowly shedding over the last 8 years, but this does remove the sweater totally.

Republicans say they're prolife and posture against abortion, but when the opportunity arises (both house of Congress, and even when they had congress and pres), they don't do even try to do anything about it, with the exception of a few.


----------



## chimuelo

Exactly.
On every issue politicians stand for, call for, or urge for, it is more lawyer lies.
What is done is how people judge the effectiveness.
The clowns in the GOP are our next targets.
Thier records will be shown.
Then they will be replaced.

Like him or not Bernie was the only honest candidate.
Wealthy Liberals do not want our money redistributed amongst the people.
Just themselves and thier friends.

We're left with another lying Liberal worth 100s of millions, yet the Sheep believe her decades long record of self enrichment as her only success will elevate thier lives.....

That wool cannot even be sheared it is so thick.


----------



## Soundhound

So let me get this straight. I vote straight Dem/Ind because I have felt the Republicans throughout my adult life have stood for everything I'm against. And in the last 30 years has turned into a dangerously radical organization. My vote first and always, is against the Republicans. It often means voting for someone I'm not that crazy about, or don't like particularly, but keeping Republicans out of office is the main objective. Even though it generally seems like not much of a shot at moving toward a society that fosters real justice and opportunity for all. But at the voting booth, it's kind of all I've got. 

Which means I'm a sheep. Right? Just checking in case there is a Sheep column available this fall.


----------



## chimuelo

Yes.
You are voting for anti gun advocates who armed Mexicans with high caliber weapons resulting in 50,000 dead.
They also armed Syrian civilians with weapons resulting in 590,000 dead, millions displaced.
But they don't like guns....?

Hypocrisy and Lies are what Liberal Theology is based upon.
They're losers here at home too.
Any major U.S. city is proof.
But burning down cities creates jobs for Hispanics so we usually vote Liberal.


----------



## Soundhound

Sounds like you didn't read my last post. Try reading again. Sloooowly. While thinking.


----------



## NYC Composer

I haven't been a member of a political party since 2000, but I'm still a sheep because I disagree with Jimmy about a bunch of things, which confers *InstantSheepishness™ *on anyone.


----------



## chimuelo

I am the biggest Sheep of all as I continue to believe there's hope by voting.

What's really sad is that Trump appears to be up against a totally rigged, fraudulent system.
People who never vote just might show up in droves to seek revenge on the wealthy 1% in DC.

I wanted him to bash and reveal the bums since he owned most of them, but now that he seems he has a chance at winning I am quite nervous.
I can gig in Brazil and buy a house by an old board playing buddy who has a ranch there.
I could easily go to Mexico since I have friends and family there too.
But between Zika and the Cartels I might be forced to stay here and watch Liberals create more poverty.

At least in Latin America I would be well off.
And the babes in Brazil are fine.
A buddy of mine tortures me with Argentine and Brazilian women who cross fit train.
Check out this hottie named Gisele.



Chinga..!!!


----------



## JonFairhurst

I just got back to the thread and see that you posted this...




chimuelo said:


> Bunch of girly men...
> ...
> Nothing wrong with girly men.
> Strong women need bitches too.



Checkmate. You used the girl insult. You have lost the Internet.

Don't bother to explain. There is no do-over. There is no overtime. I won. You lost.


----------



## NYC Composer

The inflation in Brazil is unREAL.


----------



## NYC Composer

Sorry, Jon. There's no winning or losing.

"This is the thread that never enddddddddddsssssssss......"


----------



## chimuelo

LoL.....great video.
Im all washed up..
Think I'll go to Venezuela.
Everyones equal except the ruling elite.
Im use to that.


----------



## NYC Composer

"Cleveland (CNN)Donald Trump says he would declare war on ISIS and send "very few" U.S. troops to the Middle East to combat the terrorist organization, speaking in his first interview alongside his new running mate, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence."

In other words, he'd mimic Obama's policies.

You can't make this shit up.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

He says he would "declare war on ISIS"? What's he think we're doing with ISIS now? Playing tiddly winks?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Last night, I dreamed that Trump was staying in a mansion that he was not supposed to be staying in (I hope that's not a prophetic dream). When I went to remove him, he started acting like a child and threw big books at me. I


----------



## JonFairhurst

Was it this book?

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trumps-remorseful-ghostwriter


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> Was it this book?
> 
> http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trumps-remorseful-ghostwriter


Ha ha, could've been. I guess they were all similar to that book, because he didn't write any of them! He was taking them off the bookshelf and hurling them at me. By the end, he was out of books from the bookshelf and started in with phone books.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

If anyone's interested, this opinion piece from Conservative site The Resurgent, sums up exactly how I feel about the GOP at this point.
http://theresurgent.com/donald-trump-disturbed-man-seeks-presidency-spite/
His supporters on Twitter would be calling me a liberal, a globalist and their favorite word - Cuck - about now. And yes, I do realize that article has nothing to do with liberalism or globalism. And no, I don't know what a "cuck" is.


----------



## chimuelo

Wow it seems the Cavaliers NBA Games put the GOP Convention behind by 2 weeks.
Stagehands and Teamsters from LA Boomed out for double time pay and subsistence pay.
I asked to get access passes from the Vegas clan and they hot back to me and said ALL ACCESS Denied.
First time in 30 years thats ever happened.
Screw the GOP.
I was going to go from Loiusville Wednesday.
Oh well they brought in hydraulic levitation Genies.
Maybe Trump will rise above the crowd with outstrecthed arms like Xerces or something.
Ted Cruz said DJT was evil.
Guess he spoke with the Almighty and got clearance.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Ted Cruz said DJT was evil.
> Guess he spoke with the Almighty and got clearance.



Ted Cruz did not ask Trump if he could speak at the convention. Trump asked Cruz. Also, Cruz said he will not use his speech to endorse Trump. He said he's going to speak about the importance of the constitution.


----------



## chimuelo

Damn theres an old Walnut Hammond B3 and twin 147 Leslies on stage.
Maybe Jack Macks old board player...
Rig looks familiar.

Maybe Ted will tell us contitutional it was to use Holdman Sachs loan and omit it from the C513 ledger.....

Ankyu


----------



## Soundhound

I could never decide whether Trump or Cruz would have been more of a disaster as president of the united states. Hopefully we'll never have any evidence to work with regarding that question.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Just today, I saw a "Cruz 2016" bumper sticker on which somebody wrote, "Always". I assume that's their positive spin on, "Never Trump." 

I've seen Hillary bumper stickers, but I can't recall seeing any supporting Trump. Then again, I haven't seen this guy's car - and he (allegedly) committed the triple murder just a half hour from my house.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2016/jul/18/woodland-murder-homicide-skinhead-vancouver-cowlitz/


----------



## chimuelo

The Dallas and Baton Rouge asassins probably didnt have Trump stickers.
But who knows what lies in the heart of misguided Liberals.
But in the mouth of the wealthy Liberals is where lies are quite comfortable.

There should be truth in advertising laws.
Hillarys bumper sticker should say we'll take care of you......while we fundraise..


----------



## Soundhound

What's the Trump bumper sticker? "Hooray for me, fuck you." And Cruz? "The lord is coming, bend over." I'm here all week...


----------



## chimuelo

The Lord is inside of us, our DNA is proof.
Some of us evolved quicker than Liberals and Conservatives, but we are the blessed independents.

None the less, we all have the blessing from our creator(s).
No other creatures have evolved as fast as Homo Sapiens.

We are evolving so quickly we will become A Sexual like Reptiles, and only the brightest (independents) will be allowed breeding rights.

Science will call us Homo Evolutus.


----------



## Soundhound

Meaning we'll all be gay, and very well read.


----------



## chimuelo

Androgenous but I like Gay.
It means eccentric and overly extreme to me.
Never been a negative.

In construction trades whenever somebody does decorative unneeded embellishments like a pattern of 16 penny double heads when only 2 nails are needed on 20 foot 2 by 4 safety rails, most general foremen or superintendents will always say "whats all of this gay shit".
Gay is always a positive and so many uses.

Male dancers showed me how to dress years ago.
After a show Id go clubbing and often sought thier approval on my wardrobe.
Usually was told no...thats too hetero.
Then learned what caught womens eyes in style.
All gay..all good.


----------



## chimuelo

Here's the real magic of the GOP Presentation.
There's going to be levitation.
I can't imagine what though.
But 636 large screens combined.
N.Korean leader Kim IL Un or whatever the chubby bastards name is would love that when he speaks to his Sheep..


----------



## Hannes_F

JonFairhurst said:


> Was it this book?
> 
> http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trumps-remorseful-ghostwriter



Ouch. Very interesting.


----------



## NYC Composer

Poor Melania. Finally goes public, and now this.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/19/politics/melania-trump-michelle-obama-speech/index.html

You know it's hard out here for a model.


----------



## JonFairhurst

And then there's Steve King, who claimed that everything good has come from white people.

Doesn't he know that gunpowder was invented in China? So the 2nd Amendment and the NRA are basically Chinese...


----------



## NYC Composer

Yeah Jon, I heard that bit on MSNBC. Personally, I think he should have used his inside voice instead of his speaking voice, but hey, he's the King!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Did you see the revolt on the convention floor yesterday? I was watching it live on CNN. The GOP establishment cheated the grassroots, and how. 
Here's an excellent account of it:
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/07/18/3799516/rnc-delegate-revolt/


----------



## chimuelo

Must be painful for worshippers of rich white Liberals to have to endure such painful speeches from black & white racists.
I think she'll be a great first lady.

But wealthy white Liberals have Bill.
I actually admire the man but cannot see voting for Monica Lewinskys x boyfriend's husband.


----------



## NYC Composer

Did you actually see the Steve King thing, Chim?

You think Melania will be a great First Lady? On what grounds?


----------



## chimuelo

I'm reviewing highlights.

Don't think I have time until this afternoon.
New K4 and XITE-1 Rack getting built.

Showed the bean counters how 6 months of perdium buys a new rack.
Now I can start charging for flights since I have matching rigs.

But enlighten me, I might check it out.
All I've seen is the Dating Game silhouette & the next first lady's stunning runway walk.
Watching Giulliani but tired quickly.
Work is more fun that...


----------



## Soundhound

That was freaking amazing. (the Klan konvention first night, though I'm sure the rig is badass as well). I love the fact that the First Spokesmodel's handlers were so lazy they basically just cut and pasted Michelle Obama's 2008 speech. If the Republicans hadn't gerrymandered the entire country, the Dems would be taking back the House this year as well as everything else.


----------



## chimuelo

It was intended to get media attention away from Clinton. Trump plays these clowns like a fiddle. So predictable.
And again Hillary spent 100,000,000 from Banks, Corporations and Billionaires in 6 weeks. Trump spends nothing and gets head to head polling results.
Definitely a media genius.
Melania gets free advertisement.

But there should be copyright patents on the phrase God Bless the USA by Lee Greenwood.
I have heard that at least a dozen times.


----------



## Soundhound

Pornography gets the most traffic on the Internet. So too the republican convention on Tv. start by aiming for the lowest common denominator, then aim much, much lower. throw in the promise of a bloody fight, you win the ratings war. this convention is the movie Idiocracy come to life.


----------



## NYC Composer

I can see that as President,DJT will ignore any bad feedback and pretend it doesn't exist. His wife is quoted on camera that she wrote that speech with "very little help." Ummm.

Joe Biden got caught for plagiarism, owned it and apologized. Dumbass.


----------



## chimuelo

Exactly.
When the wealthiest of whites and their minorities fail, go for a different low information group called Conservatives.
Same old show, tired of these lawyers and liars, here's a different group of lawyers and liars.

In the end the intelligent folks (independents) decide which crime family/law firm gets to steal money for the next several years.

We are the true redistribution of wealth experts as it's in our interest that these clowns just keep making money, and pass as little legislation as possible.
240 years of laws on top of laws is enough.


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> Joe Biden got caught for plagiarism, owned it and apologized. Dumbass.



Can't believe you are so bored you need to pretend like the media that this is somehow important or relevant?
None of this nonsense changes anything except the depth of despair in various flocks of Sheep.

Trump wins again, as everyone talks about him and his beautiful wife.
He should thank all of these fools and the easily predictable Media Parrots...


----------



## Soundhound

Yeah laws are dumb. They never help anybody.


----------



## chimuelo

I obey Chimuelos 10 Commandments.


----------



## NYC Composer

But no one else will until you become Emperor, and that position is already filled. By me.


----------



## JonFairhurst

If a scream into an isolated mic can take down Howard Dean, plagiarizing one's enemy and bungling the response can definitely harm Trump.

The common theme is widespread ridicule. The only question is if the ridicule will linger like it did in 2004.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Can't believe you are so bored you need to pretend like the media that this is somehow important or relevant?



Believe it. I find it highly amusing, and his beautiful wife looks like an empty headed and lying puppet.


----------



## chimuelo

The guys from Queen played at SRF and did a great job considering Freddie was an all encompassing factor.
Reading about them being mad at Trump for using thier song makes these reality TV Conventions even more fun.

We are the champions, my friend.
And we'll keep on fighting, until the end.
We are the champions, we are the champions, 
No time for Liberals(losers) cause we are the champions, of the world.

But how corny.
Trump appears over the backdrop of the Dating Game silhouette,
As Queens song blasts out.

God Bless The USA....


----------



## Soundhound

Speaking of laws and lawlessness: Jimmy every time you randomly bitch about liberals (see: every post), you have to also bitch about conservatives, or you are hereby and forevermore a Reagan/McCain/Bush/Cheney/Palin/Romney/Cruz tool.

So it shall be written, so it shall be done.


----------



## chimuelo

In due time.
First wealthy Liberals must be dispensed with.
Then Comes McConnell, Ryan and other fake Conservatives.

I still remember my favorite VP Debate where Biden was just being his rude self, and laughed at Ryan about the stimulus.
He forgot that Joe redistributed our tax dollars to him in the form of several million dollars for friends in his district.

Notice how NOBODY in the media said jack shit about that...
The stimulus was not suppose to be a slush fund to hand out to friends and family, it was for INFRASTRUCTURE>>>>

Any ways that was awesome to see Ryan, mr family values, mr the american people say, mr ....suck my ass.

But many Sheep didn't even notice what a HUGE Gaf that was basically telling the voters they were lied to AGAIN, and Uncle Joe watched over the redistribution that was for AMERICAN WORKERS and unemployed in hopes of re charging the economy, which still sucks unless you are skilled somewhat.

So old wealthy white Joe can kiss my ass too...


----------



## Soundhound

You have broken the rule and can now wear your crown proudly, good sir knight.

It was liberals who kept the stimulus money from being used for infrastructure? Conservatives had nothing to do with it. I call bullshit. Evidence, Mr. Quayle, the court would like to see some evidence.


----------



## chimuelo

I know what each politician recieved.
After the VP Debate I searched through FOIAs (the loser Sibelius ran this after stepping down from HHS)
Many redactions even though it isn't national security. 
Everybody got thier cut in exchange for silence.
McConnell got 1.5 billion on just one doc. I read.
I keep telling you believers you're getting bent over.
But they bank on your hatred of the left or right, doesn't matter to them, to distract you from the trillions being fought over.
Guess what....you get nothing.
Well maybe you have a federal relative. He'll the minute stimulus passed DOT workers had 1 employee getting 170,000 USD.
Next quarter over 1,000 workers started making even more than 170k.

You watch the pointed fingers and headlines for me.
I'll watch the money since man's purest emotion is greed.....

Cover your ears though as the wealthy whites you worship put all of your relatives under 35 in serious debt.
FOIA is always years behind.
When the big fish get caught, they purchase pardons.

Next year we get to see 2014/15 if we're lucky.


----------



## Soundhound

So when you're complaining about liberals that includes Mitch McConnel.

so it wasn't liberals, it was politicians. liberals and conservatives and republicans.


----------



## chimuelo

Nothing new.
Once you see them in lobbying gigs all the left right scripts are forgotten.
They played the game as instructed to.
Like the mafia you keep quiet.
K Street is your reward
Wall Street is for those who want to cash out quicker like the fake conservative Eric Cantor...


----------



## NYC Composer

if I might decode (and he'll correct me if I'm putting it incorrectly):

Jimmy is a conservative, but he believes all embdedded politicians are full of shit because they have to pander for money and thereby sell their souls.

Oh-and they're thieves as well, enriching themselves on the government tit or setting themselves up to do so the minute they leave office.


----------



## Soundhound

Thanks Larry. I got my decoder ring, and it always shows republican when analyzing Jimmy's work. What interests me is why he won't ever cop to it.

I'm into character driven drama.


----------



## chimuelo

Yuze guys can't see anything but left and right.
It was baked into your education, then endless campaigns endless news cycles.
I sympathize with the believers.
They know only left right.
Free thinkers side on the issues.

On field trips to Museums I often strayed there too.
Never was very good at following the pointed fingers.

I bet yuze guys were great little Lambs then too.


----------



## Soundhound

See? it's all sheep and lambs and wool when called out. but any time the pedal hits the metal, it's the fault of liberals. if pressed you'll throw in a sacrificial cumstain like Rick Santorum to give the appearance of equanimity. But next post will be all rich white liberals. Your head might know now that the shining city on the hill was horseshit, but your heart belongs to Ronny and Mommy.


----------



## chimuelo

Mommy.
Don't see any President since FDR that holds a candle to MoMo.
But Trump might become a God King.
If he finishes off the wealthy white Liberals paving the way for true Liberals.
Tulsi, Jane Kim, Bernie.
Bet you don't even know Jane or Tulsi.
You will.
They'll save SocSec in 2020.
Wealthy white Liberals will ruin the economy making our benefits limited.

But they'll be thankful for the 6 figures they get every year for thier "service."


----------



## Soundhound

Reagan called Nancy Mommy. I do know them. Everyone who hates republicans doesn't love Chuck Schumer. That may be a difficult concept to digest. 

And you did it again.


----------



## NYC Composer

'hound-for the record, Jimmy admitted to being a conservative a few hundred posts back, but I don't believe he's a Republican per se, and I don't believe he can bring himself to vote for Trump because despite it all, he loves the country.

And that's the end of my defense. I just like to keep the record straight.


----------



## Soundhound

Ah...thanks Larry. I feel like I've learned this before, but my lizard brain keeps rejecting the idea. I am clearly in Jimmy denial. Say it ain't so...!


----------



## NYC Composer

Hahaha!


----------



## NYC Composer

I tell ya, I am simply shocked that Roger Ailes, the head of Fox News, appears to be a serial abuser of women. 
The network that represents itself as the purveyor of Family Values, patriotism and the "no Spin Zone". Huh. Seems 'ol Rog was interested in Megan Kelly's "wherever".


----------



## chimuelo

Decided to watch the highlights again since so many Sheep are clacking thier hooves.

I concluded not only are pollsters worthless but speech writers and speakers suck.

His son spoke and the chatter is he hit it out of the park....
I doubt mesmorised Sheep caught this, but Donald Jr. said his dad hung out with workers, took the kid with him, etc.
I actually heard him say watching workers "pouring sheetrock".....no shit.
You pour CONCRETE and hang SHEETROCK.

Lying little bastard didnt see jack shit and like others before him, and yes including Obama, these dip sticks never had a job and cant even read a tele prompter.

Maybe some parrot in the media caught this, but none of them ever worked in the trades so I doubt it.

The clacking of the hooves continues.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Just read the TelePrompter wrong. Melania didn't plagiarize, Donnie didn't lie his ass off in "The Art of the Deal" (which he didn't write) nor bilk his "students"-because he's not Crooked Hillary. He's the honest straight shooter.

His male children seem like self satisfied pricks. Tiffany seems odd. Ivanka seems to have a brain. Wonder if she'll run some day.


----------



## chimuelo

America just seems to prefer the best liars any more.
But even so, Hillary is a terrible unconvincing liar with hundreds of millions.
Donald just thinks everyone is stupid except him.
Our current liar wants his legacy of lies to continue as he believes himself.

So we get Trump, a dangerous predictable blowhard.
Or Hillary, who under Obama caused more damage around the world and here at home than any group has ever done.

Just looking at a map from where NATO and allies have been involved in conflicts since 2005 until now is mind blowing.
Listening to these morons you might conclude the world is great the unemployment is historically low.

BULL SHIT.
We are involved in more conflicts than anytime in history and 1968 is being repeated, might even get nastier.

Liberals and Conservatives are losers.
Pray in 2020 they cease to exist...


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, the government, both state and federal, are going to collect taxes. It's a given. 

I pray for an end to poverty, but since it will never end:

I say that the best ways to combat poverty are through the stoppage of mass incarceration for non violent drug crime, more spent on job training (paid, if need be),economic support for skill-based education and a massive national infrastructure/modernization/jobs program.

What say you?


----------



## chimuelo

100%
Im in the ghettos of St.Louis and Chicago every month.
My friends struggle trying to keep thier kids from getting shot or incarcerated, and they are 2 parent families.
I can barely imagine what a struggling single mother lives through everyday in the ghettos of the wealthy Liberal Slum Lords.
Thankfully Obamas buddy is in jail.
But theres plenty more of those campaign contributors prospering from poverty.

If it wasnt for dedicated teachers and athletes these ghettos would be far worse.
Wealthy Liberal slum lords and Big Union Liberal bosses dont give a shit about young blacks.
They prosper from poverty.


----------



## NYC Composer

So you agree-jobs training, education, end petty crime incarceration, infrastructure and modernization jobs program, skill based.


----------



## chimuelo

Always have.
But the money must not flow through Liberal hands.
Therein lies the problem.
Google recently spent extra.money in Chicago since Liberals there tax business and workers out into Cook County.
Even then the Comptroller and Union rep were arrested for stealing millions.
The only reason Rahm arrested her was it was an election year and he was in trouble for stalling the trial of another black killed by cops.
Q
He learned from Soros and Holder how elections need events and timing like Ferguson, but that failed and so did he, but the Union gal got arrested after stealing millions.

Give the money to competent non union non greedy people who actually had a job once.


----------



## chimuelo

Just read about Roger Ailes.
From my experience at sexually abusing hot looking less talented singers I am sure there are many more girls that remain silent.
My victims kept quiet for years, then I got married again to a hot talented singer.
They tried to use it as a wedge issue but my wife said he did the same to me, but I liked it....


----------



## NYC Composer

So Jimmy, you coerced girls to sleep with you by offering them legitimate paying work if they would have sex with you?


----------



## chimuelo

Not at all.
It was a simple audition.
Had nothing to do with singing.


----------



## chimuelo

Caught some of the Trump vrs. Kasich stuff while surfing.
He refuses to even show up.
The reporter asked him if he was still mad about Trump calling him a disgusting human for shoveling food in his face while talking..
The craziest election I ever saw.
Some funny shit for sure....


----------



## Soundhound

As a Reaganite, Jimmy, you blame liberals for everything. If you spread the blame around, then the argument could be made that everyone's dirty and we need to throw them all out. But, reflexively or consciously, you just can't do it. Following that logic, Donald Trump should absolutely be elected president. Hell, you were for the guy until you got to see the same amount of him we New Yorkers had digested by 1983. Are you still under the impression that he has puppetmaster chops? That was part of his PR shite from the beginning, and before the end of Reagan's first term everyone in the city new it was nonsense.


----------



## chimuelo

Stop watching the RNC.
Why do you subject yourself to these Sheepfights..?

Just wait for Colbert and laugh about it.
Go to bed happier, have nice dreams instead of Reagan nightmares.

I bet you really freaked out watching Patrick Swayze in Point Blank with that Reagan mask...


----------



## NYC Composer

Point Break, Jimmy. Loved that stupid movie.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Larry, ya gotta say this about Cruz; he knows how to make an arena full of Trumpsters very very mad.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy I watched for a little while monday night, then just caught highlights. It's too disturbing. Colbert visiting Stewart in his cabin was genius. But it's less funny all the time. How many of these morons are out there? There were enough to elect George Bush twice, and that almost destroyed the country. Maybe it did and we just don't know it yet. What's next? Trump might pull this off? Talk about nightmares. What would be worse is Mike Pence would actually be acting president, and that guy is as bad as Trump. A tobacco lobbyist, a religious nut. The hate and vitriol in every clip from Cleveland, 'lock her up, lock her up'. Hellish... this is the American Taliban, truly.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> Larry, ya gotta say this about Cruz; he knows how to make an arena full of Trumpsters very very mad.


I had the great good fortune to watch it. He really declared war. If Trump wins, he's screwed.

He looked so self-satisfied and sanctimonious, too...like the cat who swallowed the canary. He knew exactly what he was doing, and knew the boos would rain down on him. My take:

1. It's dangerous chess for him to play.
2. It was stupid of Trump's campaign to have him speak.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I went to this convention and all I got was this lousy lynch mob...


----------



## chimuelo

I saw the highlights.
Cruz was the guy who objected the ceremony at a wedding.
Laura Ingraham was the guy with the biggest balls.
(but after googling her I realize she is very principled, the video is WoW)
Check her in a bikini contest. DayAmn...
The rest were scripted, boring repetitive, and Gingrich....
Hillary and the fake Liberals should be grateful they never have to debate him.
The guy is gangerously intelligent.

Cruz had balls, Kll give him that.
Wish Bernie and Tulsi or Jane Kim skip over the fake shit and pull a Cruz.
Zen Master says we'll see...

I love TIVO.
Tweak my recent rack, automate the hardware, jam for hours.
Then drop like a rock happy and content.
Fallon and Colbert then the RNC Highlights.

Comedy is a great way to prepare for sleep.

And Larry, the guy with the Nixon mask in Point Break was great.
I am not a crook...


----------



## NYC Composer

Ted Cruz is one of the most thinly veiled opportunists I've ever observed.

Newt Gingrich brought his wife divorce papers to sign and demanded she sign them while she was in her hospital bed being treated for cancer. Highly principled. Very intelligent. Missing a cardiac organ. Also sort of a whack job-he goes off the rails regularly-his "Muslim test" being the most recent example.

Laura Ingram is a radio entertainer, conservative pundit and zealot. Glad you enjoy her. I think her headspace is limited.

Once in a while you go on this sheepish pro-conservative zealot kick. You ought to just baaah.

Yeah-I liked the Nixon guy. They called him Dick, 'member?


----------



## chimuelo

Your interpretation of my observations is based on an assumption I believe in this left/right dog and pony show.
These 2 groups are nothing more than 2 law firms representing thier clients.
Which isnt us.
My friends and family and most of my new neighbors are what I believe in and settle our differences honestly.
People who need to have a written speech and read a teleprompter to communicate are the same as the actors and actresses in Hollywood.
Self promotion. Comfortable portraying various roles to convince the Sheep they are genuine.

Entertainment value gets high marks.
The actions of our elites shows who they are, not some staged media event.

The best America has isnt tied to either of these law firms.
Theyre among us in our community.

The most impressive person so far in this short film expose is Ivanka Trump.
She couldnt vote for her dad due to Liberal law layers in NY.
My guess is she voted for Obama twice like most of us.
We keep trying to find the best.
But theyre right down the street...

Fear not fellow wooled creature, your wealthy white queen will win, even after all of the failures corruption and plain dis honesty she lives with.
She was selected for you by her investors.
Im sure she'll get even wealthier serving us.....

God Bless the USA


----------



## NYC Composer

No, you don't believe in it, but you somewhat disingenuously (sometimes) pretend you don't believe in it equally and from your statements on the matter that is simply not true. You were more honest when you owned being, essentially, a conservative.

HRC may get richer, but unless DJT is a bald faced liar, she'll never be as rich as him. Of course she didn't start with 40 mil.


----------



## chimuelo

Im catching some winks.
Have a nice day you crabby worshipper of royalty.


----------



## NYC Composer

I ain't crabby, just consistent....and I only worship the presumptive Emperor.

(moi)


----------



## Baron Greuner

Shit!! I'm on my way back. Internet round here is a tricky business at times. OY!!!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I had the great good fortune to watch it. He really declared war.



He didn't declare war. He laid out the case for protecting freedom and liberty and then asked people to vote their conscience and for "those you trust to defend freedom and the constitution". 
And yet, the Trumpsters took that as insult. Imagine how bad your nominee is if "vote your conscience" is a bad thing.

He didn't say one negative thing about Trump last night. He saved all that for Hillary. In fact, he congratulated Trump on winning the nomination.



NYC Composer said:


> If Trump wins, he's screwed.



He knows that, and was willing to take that risk to give the message he thinks is important - embrace freedom, liberty and the constitution. 



NYC Composer said:


> He knew exactly what he was doing, and knew the boos would rain down on him.



Trump knew exactly what Cruz was doing, as well. Cruz and Trump's campaign both said that Trump knew exactly what he was going to say. They had the speech. Cruz even told Trump beforehand that he wasn't going to endorse.

For a week before his speech, Cruz told the public that's what he was going to speak about. It was no secret.


----------



## Soundhound

These people are incredibly dangerous. If any of them, Cruz at the head of the list, were to gain real power we'd be in a lot of trouble. Hopefully this really is the death throes of the American Taliban, and responsible people will come to run the Republican party once again.

Once again you say? When was the last time the Republican party was led by non radicals? Eisenhower seems to be the last responsible person to hold high office from that party. He warned about the military industrial complex. But he was preceded by a generation that fought the new deal as hard as they could, and extended the depression by several years.

Trump is just the worst of the lot, and not a serious guy. But if Mike Pence were to gain real power... jesus christ. Has anyone read the RNC platform? It reads like something from a banana republic. Brings to mind Bananas, when generalissimo Woody Allen declared that everyone would have to wear their underwear on the outside so it could be checked.

If only Hunter Thompson were alive to properly cover this monstrosity.


----------



## chimuelo

Well you get a choice between these dangerous folks or billionaires who instruct Liberals on economic decisions that benefit thier investors.

We the people are not a consideration for the GOP or the fake Liberal DNC.

Just look at the 128 billion dollar merger Warren Buffet just won.
Yet Staples and Office Depot trying to stay alive to compete with Amazon were denied.
2 American owned companies worth 2 billion.
Versus the largest alcohol guys worth 128 billion.

Liberals and Conservatives work for those who pay them the most.
How much more proof do the Sheep require?


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> He didn't declare war. He laid out the case for protecting freedom and liberty and then asked people to vote their conscience and for "those you trust to defend freedom and the constitution".
> And yet, the Trumpsters took that as insult. Imagine how bad your nominee is if "vote your conscience" is a bad thing.
> 
> He didn't say one negative thing about Trump last night. He saved all that for Hillary. In fact, he congratulated Trump on winning the nomination.
> 
> 
> 
> He knows that, and was willing to take that risk to give the message he thinks is important - embrace freedom, liberty and the constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> Trump knew exactly what Cruz was doing, as well. Cruz and Trump's campaign both said that Trump knew exactly what he was going to say. They had the speech. Cruz even told Trump beforehand that he wasn't going to endorse.
> 
> For a week before his speech, Cruz told the public that's what he was going to speak about. It was no secret.


We disagree. By not endorsing the legitimate winner of the nomination, he declared war on Trump and the GOP.

I believe Trump's people thought he'd fold at the last minute.


----------



## JonFairhurst

When Chim keeps talking on and on (and on and on and on...) about elites and sheep and about how the whole system is rigged, it sounds right-wing. He usually bashes rich Liberal elites. When called on it, he adds "conservatives." Yet it still sounds right-wing. Why? Because it's the core of the GOP playbook.

This article spells out the three decade attack on American governance by the GOP. This is a must-read article:
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/18/12210500/diagnosed-dysfunction-republican-party

And surprise, surprise. It's exactly this "burn it to the ground" attitude that led to Trump and Nazi salutes at a major convention. It's a strategy of destabilization that enables power grabs.

Just look at the messages at the convention.
- They claim that cop killings are up. Fact: They've declined.
- They claim that the economy sucks. It's been steadily improving since about 2010.
- The ACA is terrible! Except that the uninsured rate is down and cost per patient is also down.
- Immigrants are going to kill us!
- And on and on and on. No facts. Just pessimism, fear, hatred, and innuendo. Lock 'em up! Firing squad, ready!

It's no surprise that Chim's rants don't include links to supporting data. The whole Chicken-Little message is one of emotional manipulation. And it's fine to throw your own under the bus (see Trump v. Cruz - or Chim and conservatives) as long as you keep beating the drums of doom and gloom.

The whole "elites and sheep" thing is more than just a right-wing message. It's their core strategy.


----------



## chimuelo

It's racist, Islamophobic, right wing, homophobic or massaganist or whatever ists and isms are used when the wealthy whites you worship have their owners exposed.
Dont be mad, those you worship are just doing as they're told by their investors.

Conservatives have the same billionaires after us independents throw the lying Liberals out.
Same Banks, Multi Nationals and Queens, Kings own these people, and have full access.
Just because they tell you bedtime stories you like to hear you'll defend their blatant crony capitalism.


----------



## chimuelo

As far as links are concerned they are easy to find if you want to read yourself.
Try Budwieser-Miller, or Staples-Office Depot anti trust decisions.

Or Soros Coal investment, or his Billions in offshore drilling in Brazil and Mexico.
Or Buffets Oil Tankers on Railways to the Gulf, even though it's cheaper to use a pipeline.

But wait, that's not safe.....hundreds of thousands of pipelines are in America, few railroads transport Oil...
Oil tankers crash and burn a few times every year, burning down forests.

You would need a link for that, Rachel Maddow and the New York Times do NOT make a habit of exposing wealthy white Liberal crony capitalism. They are against it I think....maybe not,...they do as they are instructed too.
One big happy family of lying bastards.

Must really annoy worshipers of elites that fossil fuel profits fund liberal campaigns even though they swear they will save Earth from evil fossil fuels....
Confusing times, I know.

I follow the money, you follow the Headlines.


----------



## chimuelo

Heres one of many I follow since I admire billionaires.
I have a nice pension I look forward to thanks to them.
I admire Soros and Styers, Buffet, etc.
I would buy these lawyers too if I had thier money.

This link youll certainly appreciate since it sums up what I also believe.
Call it Gores revenge.

This one is on me, free of charge.


http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/21/news/mark-cuban-donald-trump/


----------



## G.R. Baumann

@JonFairhurst

The critique and positions that were occupied by right and extreme right supporters, once were positions traditionally left.

The same can be observed throughout the political landscape in Europe. The ugly head of racism raises it's head above the masses and is sociallly accepted again. Ultra right wing positions are presentable, even war mongering and messages of extreme hatred and slander.

In the US, this presidential is remarkable. Amateurish does not even begin to describe it.

It would seem to me that the increasing incompetence and ethical ineptness of those who come to power, is a sign of systemic rot and failure of governance without treachery.


----------



## NYC Composer

...and then the world ended and we all died.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

NYC Composer said:


> ...and the the world ended and we all died.



Life has lasted 3.5 billions years, there is nothing to fear Larry, but life itself, hence, don't go for a swim when Irukandji is present. You don't know what Irukandji is?

See?! You lost!


----------



## NYC Composer

You're right, Georg, I dunno it, so you win...you're obviously much smarter than I am-but I'm maybe just a bit less gloomy  I'm going to Google it now so I can get smarter.


----------



## NYC Composer

"Irukandji jellyfish are the smallest and most venomous box jellyfish in the world. They inhabit the marine waters of Australia and are able to fire their stingers into their victim, causing symptoms collectively known as Irukandji syndrome."


----------



## NYC Composer

So finally, the pivot.

Trump is, apparently, female positive and a great friend and protector of gay.....wait for it...billionaires.


----------



## chimuelo

Peter Theil and Ivanka got it right.
This reminds me of the old Democratic platform.
Dont see the GOP Congress working with Trump so we are left with just a speech.

I do enjoy seeing Liberal media headlines.
They sound like the wicked witch of the west when the bucket of water soaks them and then meltdown...


----------



## Baron Greuner

Looking at all this shit, I would be surprised to see Trump lose this now, even though the betting favours Hillary.


----------



## JonFairhurst

This should be Trump's high water mark. The Republican convention has just concluded. The Democrats have not yet put on their show. If he doesn't show a clear lead today, he's toast.


----------



## chimuelo

Polls are worthless as are the dinosaurs who promote them.

Trump win will win the popular vote.
Electoral votes is the action and we already witnessed the widespread sale of super delegates that put Bernie on his heels.
Nobody knows legislative and electoral sales better than the Clinton's.

Trump sure made this fun though.


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> Polls are worthless as are the dinosaurs who promote them.



Same with science and research studies. Data is really, really bad. I hear that The Mexicans and The Blacks really like Trump.


----------



## chimuelo

Im reffering only to lying Liberal data.

Have you forgotten the liars/pollsters of 2012/2014 when Liberals were removed in record numbers?

Since Liberals are going to lie anyway, just tell thier lazy voters theyre going to lose.
Maybe then theyll get off of thier big asses and stand in line in larger numbers.

Biden needs to go tell them theyre going to put y'all back in chains.
That seemed to work pretty well....


----------



## NYC Composer

Believing his own bullshit polls made poor Karl Rove lose his shit and his relevance- and all on national TV.


----------



## chimuelo

Exactly and they still pay these losers.
Dick Morris the CNN Money guy, all wrong, all the time.

I believe Americans have learned to lie after Clinton, Bush, Obama and now Hillary.
So when polled give wrong answers since Snowden NSA.
I told a GOP caller, first time ever btw, onmy landline too, when asked who I am voting for as President I said Al Sharpton.
He replied Sharpton isnt running, I replied yes he will, as soon as Hillary gets nailed for pergury to a Federal Judge, not to Congress. Everybody lies to Congress. Nobody ever gets prosecuted.


----------



## NoamL

Michael K. Bain said:


> He didn't declare war. He laid out the case for protecting freedom and liberty and then asked people to vote their conscience and for "those you trust to defend freedom and the constitution".
> And yet, the Trumpsters took that as insult. Imagine how bad your nominee is if "vote your conscience" is a bad thing.



There's no point playing coy. *"Vote your conscience"* is a well known slogan of the NeverTrumpers. Cruz stuck a knife in Trump's back on live TV. It was glorious. But it was also craven opportunism. Cruz wants Trump to lose so he can run in 2020. All of Cruz's objections that Trump isn't a "Christian constitutional conservative" or whatever, are beside the point that Trump is an obstacle to Cruz's consuming ambition.

This is what gets me when people say Cruz is like Littlefinger from Game Of Thrones or Kevin Spacey from House Of Cards. The difference is _in the world of those shows, nobody knows_ that the characters are amoral, manipulative sociopath geniuses.

Whereas Ted Cruz is fairly obviously, at first glance,_ Ted Cruz_. And everybody knows it. Even voters who are too damn dumb to detect Trump's narcissism or Clinton's Nixonian paranoia can see that Cruz is a weasel. He's not even a convincing human being. He's like a lizard person.


----------



## Soundhound

When the right wing talks about freedom and liberty, what they really mean is racism, greed and xenophobia. The repulusive, Taliban-like radical right wing is a cancer on our society. I hope it doesn't metastasize, I really do. It looks like it has a chance to do just that. This is how fascism takes hold. Fingers crossed that these vermin don't take over.


----------



## NoamL

I'm no rightist.... but drawing one circle around Ted Cruz, Chris Christie, Newt Gingrich and Donald Trump is really really reductive.

Going back to the post earlier that wondered if Bernie would ever "pull a Cruz" on Hillary, the policy differences between Bernie and Hillary are miniscule compared to the factions in the ongoing Republican civil war.


----------



## Soundhound

That circle should include Ronald Reagan (the father of infantile, corporatist politics), George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Lee Atwater, Roger Ailes, Rupert Murdoch, Scott Walker, John McCain... it's a very big circle... 



NoamL said:


> I'm no rightist.... but drawing one circle around Ted Cruz, Chris Christie, Newt Gingrich and Donald Trump is really really reductive.
> 
> Going back to the post earlier that wondered if Bernie would ever "pull a Cruz" on Hillary, the policy differences between Bernie and Hillary are miniscule compared to the factions in the ongoing Republican civil war.


----------



## Soundhound

The reason for all the anti-Hillary sentiment is 30 years of witch hunting from the right wing. From Whitewater on it's always been absolute, baseless bullshit. The problem is an entire generation has been brought up knowing nothing else. If she gets into office, I think she's going to surprise a lot of people and be a terrific president. If the Dems take congress back from the troglodytes (their gerrymandering makes that pretty impossible for the moment) she could be a great president. And I'm a Bernie supporter.


----------



## Soundhound

Absolutely. Trump is the direct result of all the vitriol, greed and hubris that's been driving right wing politics for the last 50 years. Take a look at the RNC platform, it is to the letter what the right wing has been fighting for my whole adult life. The only difference is that Trump is genuinely a sociopath, he comes right out and says what he means. Other than that, there is no difference. 

The right wing party elite is face to face with the monster they have created. Of course they're horrified by it. As my friend Kerry and I always said, the three most powerful forces in the universe are gravity, entropy and denial. 



NoamL said:


> Do you _really_ see Dick Cheney and Donald Trump as fellow travelers? or are you just drawing a big circle around Politicians I Don't Like
> 
> If Donald Trump is such a typical Republican why did 2/3rds of the party elite descend into near suicidal despondency at the prospect of nominating him?


----------



## chimuelo

The citizens of the planet are anti Hillary.
Billionaires, Wall Street CEOs, Kings, Queens and Royals love purchasing legislation, Uranium and weapons from her.

Merkel needed cheap labor so Obama and Hillary gave her 1,000,000 unskilled laborers for free.

She negotiated in the Senate to destroy Ukranian nukes in exchange for American security assurances in case Russia got any ideas.

Then Russia walked right in took the Crimean Naval Base and Peninsula.

But she's really the best fundraiser and that's more important to Liberals than honoring agreements, or setting up red lines, etc.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy, sweetheart, babydoll, you gotta come up with new material. The idea that the country could survive another radical right wing presidency is not just wrong, it's dangerous. Look what Bush did, turned the middle east from a hornet's nest into a bonfire. Essentially bankrupted the country (yes, Bill Clinton helped). If you thought Bush was a disaster, if Trump gets in you're going to get on your knees and pray for someone like Bush.


----------



## chimuelo

It is new material.
Clinton is a vast Treasue Chest of material.
Have you read the redacted emails from Rothschild or Soros to the State Department?
Great stuff FOIA coughed up.
I could theorize on the redactions for a week. No use though.
The fact they had her email and the Ambassador did not says plenty.

Hey she's going to win.
We know this.
She was pre selected.
And I honestly believe she can make some good decisions.

After 20 years of being wrong on everything the law of averages is on her side.
She's like the Detroit Lions.
Sort of.


----------



## Soundhound

Being a Knick fan I hear you re the Lions. But don't you think it's critical that Trump doesn't get in? There are no sure things. Seriously Jimmy, he's a moron, a babbling psychopath, I think you see that now? Did you watch any of the convention? Don't you find those people frightening?

I've said this over and over and over. Every election of my adult life the republicans have put up someone worse than before. In 1980 I thought there was no way Ronald Freaking Reagan would get elected. He got in, declared war on poor people, and the game was on. I never thought it would get worse than that. The Democrats finally got some balls and put up a shark who talked a good game but capitulated when push came to shove and we got deregulation up the wazoo. Then the Supremes handed the presidency to Bush jr. and we got endless war and bankruptcy. John McCain chose an illiterate weather girl for a running mate. And now Donald Trump. I keep thinking it can't get worse. And it does, every time. God help us if this asshole is elected.

The RNC platform calls for teaching the goddamn bible in public schools. These people have to be stopped!!!!!


----------



## chimuelo

Trump is dangerous.
I do not want him to win.

Just want him to expose what really goes on with the purchasing of Liberals.
Maybe then folks might get motivated and help themselves rather than waiting around for some Liberal bedtime story to become true.


----------



## Soundhound

Liberals liberals liberals. As opposed to the crock of shit that the republicans have been feeding the working class for 50 years? Come on Jimmy...


----------



## NYC Composer

I agree with your take on most everything 'hound, but tell me this:

Does the idea that Barney Frank is working as an inside man/consultant to banks drive you as crazy as it drives me?

It's one of many examples that indicate to me that ideological purity has left the building.


----------



## chimuelo

In all fairness Eric Cantor was removed by racist Tea Party voters.
He didn't even finish his term.
Went right to Wall Street.

So even when the Sheep cheer thinking they have a voice the investors give them a promotion.

Glad you are researching Larry.
Follow the money.
The only truth.


----------



## Soundhound

I'm not as familiar with what Barney frank is doing. but yeah, if true it sucks. But I don't really see anything about ideological purity. I'm not really pro anything per se, though basically a democratic socialist, very broadly. But I am deeply, adamantly against the Republican Party. I think they are a menace and have been in the way of everything that needs to be done for decades now. they are selfish primitivists at the top, ignorant racists and xeonophobes through the ranks. voting republican in this day and age is unacceptable for any thinking person.


----------



## chimuelo

If you really want to see the truth follow them when they leave.
All Liberals become the opposite of what they stood for.

Daschle
Gephardt
Delay
Dodd

These were the benefactors of the housing collapse, Coal mining where Chinese companies bypass miners here in Tennessee by shaving off entire mountain tops leaving a huge mess.
No EPA Regulators anywhere in sight.
They're busy blowing up dam walls ruining entire eco systems.
Then get overtime pay cleaning up the mess they made.


----------



## chimuelo

Have a shot of Jager SHound.
You'll alleviate those hallucinations you see of racists reflecting from your coffee cup....


----------



## Soundhound

If you're gonna do that Jimmy you really should name the Republicans as well. Otherwise you're fanning the Trump flames. And if he wins, you helped.


----------



## Soundhound

Did you watch any of the convention? I guess not. Read a newspaper lately?



chimuelo said:


> Have a shot of Jager SHound.
> You'll alleviate those hallucinations you see of racists reflecting from your coffee cup....


----------



## chimuelo

I did.
Twice.
Cantor and Delay.

I use to see policemen in my soup.
But that's when I was running kilos from Nogales.


----------



## chimuelo

FWIW Both Crime Families do this.

You see old arch enemies hanging out drinking 500 dollar a bottle wine, breaking in New members, throwing around cash like they print it.


----------



## NYC Composer

I was in Nogales recently, the bifurcated city. Were you in Nogales, Mexico or Nogales, Az.?


----------



## Soundhound

I don't disagree that much of the Democratic party is bought and sold. But the Republican party needs to be excised from the political dialogue. How you can see them as equally problematic is kind of amazing to me.


----------



## chimuelo

Both sides Larry.
We score the kilos at the Bull Fights since large crowds in public places are preferred.
Then we walk back to the Sewers and Tunnels.
Scouts on the other side give the all clear then drive by the opening and we jump in and head back to Vegas.

Another reason I can't vote for Trump.
My 8 balls will skyrocket to over 200 a pop.
Unacceptable...


----------



## NYC Composer

Right, Jmmy. I totally believe you.


----------



## chimuelo

Just got a text that Hillary picked Caine for VP.
I know his brother Co Caine.
Met him in Cuidad Jaurez.

Must be nice for Liberals.
Getting all the wealthy whites back together again.

But Bill promised AG Lynch the SCOTUS gig on that runway in Arizona.

She'd be a great pick.


----------



## NYC Composer

Importing 8 balls from Ciudad Juarez too Jimbo, or were you just picking off young girls from the maquiladoras?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NoamL said:


> There's no point playing coy. *"Vote your conscience"* is a well known slogan of the NeverTrumpers.


I've been NeverTrump from the day it started. I've been in Twitter conversation after conversation with Trumpsters for months. I'm not saying we never say we're going to vote our conscience, but"Vote your conscience" was not a "slogan" until Ted said it during his speech at the convention. It was not some code word he used to "activate the troops". 

The rest of your post I'll leave alone, because it's opinion. Can't win an opinion argument. My opinion is he's a sincere, genuine man. Your opinion is obviously different, and i don't really care.


----------



## NYC Composer

Have to say I'm more in the lizard camp, Michael.

I've known some really smart lawyers in my time. An ex-housemate and former friend grew up to be the Attorney General of Hawaii. Another old friend has argued before the Supreme Court four times. A friend of my wife's was the DA of a major area. My dad was a lawyer, my mom a legal secretary. I recognize Ted when I watch him because I know the breed-he's a little like Gingrich in this way-he always thinks he's the smartest person in the room, and he always thinks he can get over with smooth and clever rhetoric that he tailors to fit the situation at hand. I see the naked ambition underneath, the cold calculations, the bright boy who was disliked and figured out ways to outsmart everyone. He's a little Nixonian, another brilliant, flawed man, but oilier and more sanctimonious. As you say, all of this is just opinion.

I think he overplayed his hand here, and he's given contradicting statements about why he didn't endorse. Time will tell if it was a smart calculation or not, but politics is funny-4 years is an absolute eternity.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Beats me, seriously Larry.... it's like a freak show, isn't it? I mean who in the Hell takes people like Trump and HRC really serious? Apart from being dangerous and having shitloads of money, what is it about them?

Try to imagine someone like HRC or Trump rings your doorbell and asks you to rent them a room for a year.


----------



## NYC Composer

Georg, what do you know about the Clinton Global Initiative? My wife works in international human rights funding. All charitable giving in the U.S. is opaque as various laws protect them from most disclosures, but it appears to me from what I know and despite whatever personal enrichment has gone on, the CGI is doing a fair amount of worldwide good, whereas Trump has sought only to enrich himself. Moreover, he's taken disgusting racist, misogynist and nativist positions. I see a broad distinction.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Hi Larry,

Yes, the CGI is a good initiative, but look, I remember from memory when G.W. Bush came to power and held a speech about his initiative to fight AIDS in Africa and the world.... Get my drift?

Of course, republicans hurl lies, myths and insults, in bucket loads, of course they are innaceptable, or like Chomsky would probably say, they are off the spectrum, and I'd sign that.

HRC however, well, do you know the Clinton dotctrine? ( I don't mean that question in a patronising way!) Clinton has a history of supporting aggressive war in the past. Ultimately, it was HRC who defeated Obama and Defense Secretary Gates to enter the war in Lybia. This was to no small part responsible for the unmanageable refugee crisis.

Then there are her views (dangerous views) on Iran, and she is in line with hardline Israeli views on Syria, let aside the demonising propaganda of Russia.

I intend to believe that other forces are at play here, not visible to the gerneral public, that have an interest in permanent and extended conflict zones.

So Trump was the "Queen-Maker", or better to say will be, for the people will believe she is the lesser of two evils.


----------



## NYC Composer

Agreed Georg, and I am one of them.


----------



## NYC Composer

I want to interject something here.

There are good people in this country. There are good people in the world. People who will make their small contributions to compassion and justice and fight monstrous wrongs when they have to.

We don't hear enough about these people, especially in the political cycle. It's in the interest of the media to emphasize the things that divide us, the things we disagree about, the pettiness that people surely do possess. We're a deeply flawed species, but we have our good moments as well.

I'm about to turn 62. I've seen some hard things, but I'm not going to give in to cynicism and despair. Ever. 

I'm grateful for every day and I've been so very, very fortunate. I hope everyone here appreciates the good things life has given them.


----------



## chimuelo

Just finished seeing the entire convention via highlights then watching the speakers individually as I cant stand more than 1 at a time.
To exploit the pain of the woman who lost her son in Benghazzi is despicable.
Then Christie calling to put Clinton in jail.
My son doesnt even want to participate.
His reasoning is why lose 300 bucks to vote for somebody you cant stomach...?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I think he overplayed his hand here, and he's given contradicting statements about why he didn't endorse. Time will tell if it was a smart calculation or not, but politics is funny-4 years is an absolute eternity.


What contradictory statements? He said he's not going to be Trump's "servile puppy" and endorse someone who attacked his wife and father. What else did he say?


----------



## NYC Composer

His defense of the Constitution.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Interjecting something too, a healthy dose of US history, if you have not come across it, highly recommended:



> “In the long run, the oppressor is also a victim. In the short run (and so far, human history has consisted only of short runs), the victims, themselves desperate and tainted with the culture that oppresses them, turn on other victims. ”


... and that explains "the success" of the shower of wasters in the current Republican party.

https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062397348/a-peoples-history-of-the-united-states


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm a U.S. citizen, Georg, born in New York, Jewish. What's your ethnic background?


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> What contradictory statements? He said he's not going to be Trump's "servile puppy" and endorse someone who attacked his wife and father. What else did he say?



Michael- from his meeting with the Texas delegation post speech, a partial quote:

"Asked if he would vote for Trump, even before the official question period began, Cruz said he would "answer the same way I'll answer many, many times. … I am doing what millions of Americans are doing. I'm watching, I'm listening. As I told you last night, the standard I intend to apply is which candidate I trust to defend our freedom, be faithful to the Constitution."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/...ting-for-hillary-clinton-225944#ixzz4FKLMrsWN
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook


----------



## G.R. Baumann

NYC Composer said:


> I'm a U.S. citizen, Georg, born in New York, Jewish. What's your ethnic background?



Third planet, solar system, humanoid, white, male, agnostic. Lived in Asia, USA, Europe, science education: chemistry, arts education: trained classical musician: piano, conducting, autodicat photographer, Frankfurt school: left-wing-humanist.


----------



## NYC Composer

I got the left wing part, Georg. 

So you were not born nor raised in any particular country then, and you have no ethnicity. Alright then.

(For the record, I am also white, male, humanoid, a third planet and this particular solar system dweller as well as agnostic and progressive minded, but unlike you, I came from a specific place and am possessed with a native ethnicity.)


----------



## Soundhound

In the victim is born the oppressor. I really hope it's not about to happen again. There is a chance that thanks to Big Lie of trickle down economics and the resultant ravaging of the middle class (and the signing on to that crap by blue dog Democrats), we are very possibly about to elect an incompetent sociopath to the Presidency.

But the thing is, bullies are, always and foremost, cowards. They lash out because they are frightened animals. But my hope is that, in Trump's case, he is so completely devoid of any real substance or competence, he will be impotent. His tenure will be one of stagnation, nothing will happen. Or at least nothing will change.

Cruz would instantly be a disaster because he believes in regressive, Reagan on steroids policies and he knows enough to be able to make things happen. That would be a nightmare. Because under underneath the face everyone hates, is the kid who was alienated all through school. Cruz is the kid everyone loved to hate, has been his whole life, and he's out for revenge.

Trump on the other hand has no resources to draw on. He'll put primitives like Pence in power, women's right to choose will continue to be assaulted, their healthcare will continue to be taken away. The economy will suffer, minority voters will continue to have their voting rights subverted by the racists. But that's already been happening for years thanks to the Fox News generation. Texas will continue to rewrite history books for the nation's children. The study of the bible will be encouraged in every classroom. It's disgusting and regressive, but a lot of that happens now.

Confronted with any real issue or decision, Trump will suck his thumb and hide behind the couch, because he's a pussy. Surrogates will make any and all decisions. This is my hope, that if Trump gets in it won't get any worse, we'll only be living in the same crap the right wing has been serving up for a long time. Then in four years even Fox News watchers will see him for the fraud he is and Elizabeth Warren will be president.

But then, Amurica was dumb enough to elect George Bush in 2004 (they didn't in 2000, Scalia and his toady's gave us that one). So: Yikes.


----------



## synthpunk

The Washington Post Editorial Board unprecedented & unequivocal non endorsement of Trump in July.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/donald-trump-is-a-unique-threat-to-american-democracy/2016/07/22/a6d823cc-4f4f-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html


----------



## Soundhound

That was great, wasn't it! Where I'm about to go for a year and a half, about a 1/2 hour south of Atlanta, I bet no one has read the Washington Post since... um... well.... 

Get out the vote y'all!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael- from his meeting with the Texas delegation post speech, a partial quote:
> 
> "Asked if he would vote for Trump, even before the official question period began, Cruz said he would "answer the same way I'll answer many, many times. … I am doing what millions of Americans are doing. I'm watching, I'm listening. As I told you last night, the standard I intend to apply is which candidate I trust to defend our freedom, be faithful to the Constitution."
> 
> Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/...ting-for-hillary-clinton-225944#ixzz4FKLMrsWN
> Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook


But that question was if he would vote for Trump, not why he won't endorse Trump. 2 separate questions.

He said the bit about not endorsing because of the attacks on his wife and father during the Q&A of the same meeting. If I were going to tell why I wouldn't endorse, there would be multiple answers, equally true.


----------



## NYC Composer

You are right about that, yet it seems like two sides of the same coin.


----------



## chimuelo

So Russia can get rid of Wasserman Shultz showing Americans what a rigged system they live under.

I'm just glad they can't blackmail Clintons since their non secured server was only hacked by an amateur from Romania.

Liberals are so incompetent are corrupt.
Bad enough they've never had a job other than defrauding taxpayers and lying for millions.

Putin will drip drip her personal and classified emails guiding Liberal foreign policy for years to come.


----------



## NYC Composer

...and you think we haven't hacked Putin? We were listening to Merkel's cell phone for years. This "secure server" stuff is nonsense anymore.

The Wasserman-Shultz thing is a bloody mess, I grant you that. If she gave a crap about her theoretical ideals, she'd go take a nice vacation on a remote island right about now. For that matter, if Hillary did, she'd step aside and give the nomination to Bernie. Of course these people are not only human, they're politicians-and they worked hard to get where they are, so neither thing is happening.

Trump ahead in new poll. 3 months of bloodletting to go.


----------



## NYC Composer

@Georg-I'm a bit mystified that when I asked you about your ethnicity, you responded with your curriculum vitae, which I didn't ask you about. In trying to discern what that means, one could infer that you are for some reason unwilling to divulge your ethnicity, possibly not proud of it for some unknown reason(?) but quite (justifiably) proud of your CV, which you revealed though no one asked. 

My curiosity comes from your consistent attacks on the U.S. You know where I come from, as I was perfectly willing to divulge it. I'd like to know from what ethnic perspective you express your opinions. The "humanoid" stuff was cute but evasive. Why is your ethnicity veiled?


----------



## chimuelo

He's not Russian, he's Lithuanian, raised by his paternal grandfather who was a fisherman.


----------



## chimuelo

Libs are already making the Putin/Trump partnership connections.
Old enemies often make good friends.
My best friends were always guys we traded blows with.
My black guitarist came from high school to Jr. High to whoop me since I whooped his brother.
We beat each other up twice then started a band.
He was trying to be prim and proper by telling me he was going to kick my ass, started taking his letter jacket off so I handcuffed him.
They never let me forget, but at Clubs he knows I got his back if white racists get too rowdy.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> You are right about that, yet it seems like two sides of the same coin.


Not really, because you can vote for someone without publicly endorsing. But you could also have multiple reasons not to endorse.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

NYC Composer said:


> My curiosity comes from your consistent attacks on the U.S.



I reject that claim!

As for your question about my ethnic background, I have no reason for sharing that information with you. 

In any case, I have better things to do.

Bye bye


----------



## NYC Composer

That's clear enough, and equally curious. Cheers.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Say, have any of you guys been arrested by the president of Turkey yet? I'm waiting for the knock at the door. This guy isn't going to be happy until he's arrested most of the planet. What?


----------



## NYC Composer

Staged any coups recently, Baron?


----------



## NYC Composer

Trump leading by 5 points in newest poll.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Every time Hillary walks onto a stage, she always laughs and points at someone.

Who the fuck is she pointing at? This is what we in England need to know.


----------



## chimuelo

She's fat and old with bad vision so the Hollywood folks get paid for advice.
To appear young and energetic she has a big nap then comes out and points anywhere as it gives the appearance she can read the scripts.
Very important for symbolism.
Symbolism is fake Liberalism.
Tulsi Gabbard probably isn't even allowed in the convention.


----------



## NYC Composer

Donald's fat as well and even older. He is constantly gesticulating, pointing and motioning. Sleight of hand- beware.


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah but they are close the stage.
Hillary is instructed to look into the mezzanine area instead of the first rows where Trump handlers sell tickets.
People have to be paid to watch Hillary.
Bus loads of out of work SEIU workers.
Always making sure a certain number of selected races are represented.
All unemployed.
Even the animals must include color selections that are tied to various poles and trees as props.


----------



## NYC Composer

"Look at my African American!!"


----------



## NYC Composer

**Trump/Putin '16*

"Making the world safe for Oligarchs"
*
A glowing endorsement for Putin:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/putin-implicated-in-fatal-poisoning-of-former-kgb-spy-at-posh-london-hotel/2016/01/21/2c0c5052-bf92-11e5-98c8-7fab78677d51_story.html


----------



## chimuelo

Good ones.
Your startin' to get the hang of thangs...


----------



## NYC Composer

Always have. It just took you a while to 'ppreciate the Emperor.


----------



## chimuelo

I love making fun of the saviors of America.
Weve had so many.
They all try but that other damn party just wouldnt let them do anything.
Well at least they made a fortune.
And we get a few laughs...


----------



## NYC Composer

Gay people, who you'd told me you're down with, can now be married and collect federal marriage benefits that were not previously available to them. This is social progress tha affects friends of mine and I greatly doubt it would have happened under a Republican administration. Same with health care and pre-existing conditions. Yes, it's a fucked up bill, but it's a start. In other words, I disagree with your posture of disaffected amusement though I will defend to the death your right to argue with me. This is America!!


----------



## chimuelo

Great leap for mankind.

But thier greatest achievement was creating millions of refugees.
500,000 dead civilians because we gave them guns to fight then left them to die from Russian Barrell bombs.

Iran will have Nukes snd hundreds of billions of dollars but not on thier watch.

For 13 trillion they did a great job.
Please lets do this again but give N.Korea billions and Russians can get more Uranium.

I really want to experience what Belgium France and Germany are going through.
Please give us a million refugees.


----------



## NYC Composer

I wonder why you don't address one issue without starting another? Yes, I believe both were a matter of serious social progress. The health care issue is a matter of life and death for millions. 
Address that more seriously and I will gladly discuss foreign policy next.


----------



## chimuelo

I never was against gay rights, its up to gays to decide how to enjoy thier lives.
When people are happy the worlds a better place.

But politicians on the record for being against gay rights read some polls then chsnge thier minds and I am suppose to hail them as great leaders?

At least I never passed judgement on fellow Americans in the first place.

These lying Liberals love being the problem and the answer. Otherwise they lose being subsidized by us.


----------



## NYC Composer

Again, I suggest to you it would not have happened during a Republican administration. Many gay people died because of Saint Reagan's nonchalance.
Again, millions of people are affected. I won't even push the point because you know I'm right about this.

Yes, I believe Obama was pushed by the tides of public opinion-but I think Mitt and the religious right would have found a way to hold out, and he's not the worst of the militant right. 

Do you know why I concede points to you and expect the same? Because to me (and I believe to you as well despite all the rhetoric) the most important thing for intelligent people shouldn't be ideology, it should be reason.

Ok, I'm willing to take my lumps on the disaster that is Syria. Tell me how it should have gone, because my son the ex-Army intelligence analyst just shrugs his shoulders when I ask him about it. The problem of Afghanistan apparently made him leery of any absolutism he formerly possessed.


----------



## chimuelo

It was up to the States which did thier job.
Then up to the Supreme Court to hear the arguments.
It was the right thing to do.

Romney would not have allowed it on the basis of his ideology. Which is why his type of Conservatism is not suitable for Government. Or anyone else believes the Bible is somehow law, it isnt.

Dont worry about trying to defend Liberal aggression in Somalia, Yemen, Congo, Libya, Egypt and Syria.
How can one defend wholesale failure.

America gave the Ukraine a promise. Give us the nukes and we'll defend you while you concentrate on your economy.
Looking at Europe one can conclude that strategy worked in the past.

A total lack of leadership.
Now we have millions of Russians disliking America and Europe as their economic sanctions hurt the people not the oligarchy.

Elites never seem to practice what they preach, or learn from past failures.
Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East are in turmoil from incompetence.

To elect one of the proponents of this failed policy is beyond comprehension.
Nobody trusts the word of these people, but perhaps the ones who give Hillary and Bill millions feel obligated to continue investing in the foundation.

Pay to play is good for those getting the cash, bad for us, and who knows how foreign investors benefit.
If we had FOIA and laws obeyed we would know.
But we must trust those who have lied to us in hopes maybe they decided to start telling the truth...

Sad


----------



## JonFairhurst

Just last year, Pence signed an anti-LGBT bill in Indiana. He's not reading the polls. He's listening to the social authoritarians who fund and vote for him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/02/mike-pence-religious-freedom_n_6996144.html

If Pence is elected and influences the next selections for the Supreme Court, LGBT persecution will be the law of the land until 2036.


----------



## chimuelo

Well Peter Theil might change his Biblical thinking.
No more room for the GOP of the past, Trump did us a huge favor.

Too bad wealthy white Liberals from Wall Street drug Hillary back to the center.
Now Liberals and thier minorities can enjoy more poverty subsidies instead of school choice.

Watch for Tulsi tonight.
Hope she does the right thing.
If not I'll stop sending her money.

But what a lady with a record of service in the military helping veterans forgotten by multi millionaire Liberals whose service extends to thier friend investors and family.

She's the only reason I will consider voting for the same wealthy losers and thier incompetence.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I'm just wondering why the president of France doesn't stand down. He is one useless fucking article.


----------



## chimuelo

Gramps use to tell us stories about Tunisia and Sicily.
Said the French were like the Iraqis.
Thier Tanks had 5 speed transmissions.
4 gears for reverse, and 1 for forward in case of attack from the rear.


----------



## NYC Composer

* *TRUMP/PENCE 2016*

"Making the world safe for gay billionaires, one at a time"

*


----------



## chimuelo

Say it like Bernie with hands up....
Bi yun azz......

Lots of sign confiscation at Philly.
My Muslim and non Muslim brothas are on the clock for 4 x 10s there.

They run a crew at Redding Center City and got first shot at getting paid to screw the pooch on Broad Street.

They watch doors and pretend to work a little.

They say it's so easy they are screwing the pooch and selling the puppies........


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, you lazy union workers....


----------



## chimuelo

Hey after shovelling concrete for 30 years you get gravy gigs when you hit 50.
These guys are lucky.
Local 57 is Muslim.
No women allowed 4 prayer breaks a day. I was at Terminal F with the brothas for 9 months.

In Vegas there's so many women the old guys don't get gravy gigs since women hold the signs and lug water jugs. Even the conventions were lost to those loser Teamsters.
Deadbeats stab more convention crates breaking shit than helping out.
When you hire them for booth set ups they come over with little toy hammers, dollar store Phillips, no power tools...there's your lazy bums...


----------



## NYC Composer

As an early NAMM goer (and occasional NAB goer) fun to listen to the guys who rented booths bitching about the union guys...


----------



## chimuelo

FWIW the Anaheim cats were mostly decent as I helped out at Lexicon, Ultimate Ears (prior to iOS), and Soniccore.
If you line them out they can follow instructions.

I absolutely despised talkers, the guys who wanted to talk and share ideas about "If I were boss"...

Immediately knowing the scam I would interrupt and tell them you think from your shoulders down here.
If you have theories and design chops get your own f..king show.


----------



## NYC Composer

I love Fox "News."

Opening coverage of the DNC convention this morning-5 minutes spent on some moron in a mask outside the hall burning the American flag. 

Right. Substantive.


----------



## chimuelo

I check my feeds everyday and prefer to hear my bad news in a good way....


----------



## chimuelo

If you really have to watch Fox News like most Liberals do, check out Marie Bartiromo on FBN in the early time slots.
She knows the markets, not just a pretty face, big chi chis and she has that Sophia Loren thang going on.
She actually asked Trump why he never tells us how he is going to create jobs, put him on the spot.
His answer the usual I don't want to give Liberals a plan just so they can disagree.

Truth is Hope and Change never comes.
When Liberals said they wanted to leave the Middle East that's code for we are going to invade Africa while we let ISIS grow and create the worlds largest "Man Caused Contingency" in Syria and Iraq.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I like Julie Banderas. Hmmmm.


----------



## chimuelo

She is another hottie.
But hispanics arent allowed to vote for anything but Liberals.
At least thats what the emails from the DNC are saying.
These relatives of donors are out of touch.
Its Sony all over again.
Maybe Liberal leader Al Sharpton can get some donations from these relatives of donors in exchange for him not revealing thier racist strategies and holding a march outside of DNC Headquarters. The girl at Sony gave the foundation to save puppies kittens and children 65 large.

Last night was a joke. Monday was a joke.
1st Lady and Tulsi were positive and to the point.

As far as other frothing elites goes Id rather hear somebody read off the menu at Dennys.

But Bills speech started off creepy.
I immediately started following Hillary after the first class we had....?
Its hard to keep a good man down I guess...


----------



## Baron Greuner

Bloody 'Ell!


----------



## chimuelo

Yepp. 
Well coached, even called another mixed race candidate black.
Liberals so want to be victims as the wealth accumulated makes them feel guilty.

The insult to us mixed race Americans just keeps coming.
Politicians WANT you in a category.
Job applications also demand you say what group you are.

I can read an applicants name and pretty much tell you what Liberal category of victimhood they come from.

For example, Anqwan Williams is as white as they get.
Dont hire him though, we need to appear as diverse as Liberals want us to be.

Better hire Jose Jimenez.
Hey but what about this Cherkee Indian?
Alright, hire her because we must give native Americans a shot over the yankee invader white racists.

But Warrem doesnt sound like an Indian name.

Whatever you do dont hire Saul Silverbagel.
His father would sue us for millions...


----------



## chimuelo

Chimuelo is a racist...!!!

My apologies.
I was non inclusive for not mentioning the other applicant....Ali Jihadi el Tikriti.
You better hire him or he'll blow the place up if hes denied a honest wage of 7.65 an hour.
Another law made by Liberals.

But I hear they will solve yet another problem they created and make it 15 bucks an hour..

But will the Sheep cheer the elite law makers?

Of course. Then they get more money from giving you the raise....


----------



## NYC Composer

Bill's speech was excellent. Cory Booker's too. Michelle's was about as good as spoke it gets.

But really, none of it matched the magical smoke and mirrors that the Donald stepped out of, lurching like the old fat man he is. I was worried he'd catch a cold from the dry ice, maybe sleep and fall in mid-preen. He could break a hip!


----------



## NYC Composer

I've given thousands of dollars to an initiative to buy bed nets. I started about ten years ago. Big charities got onboard. Lo an behold, malaria is down 50% worldwide. I don't believe the money is used to save puppies and kitties, sorry/ -mostly children.

But it's all bullshit, Jaime Chimuelo. It's all just lying liberals enriching themselves, Clintons, Gates, Buffet, Bloomberg, all boondoggles and puppies and kitties and bleeding heart assholes. I know the drill. Say no more.


----------



## chimuelo

It is all bull shit.
But so much fun to have listening to folks tell me how great the economy is (for thier kind) or how we are losers and Superman is going to save us.

The most electoral fun I've ever had.
A criminal and her pervert husband or a billionaire that buys Liberals as a choice for 2016.

Only in America


----------



## chimuelo

Did you get pictures of kids you saved with flies walking around thier face?
Why can't they immigrate to America?
We'll save them from death and disease instead of importing Sharia and wife beating Muslims....


----------



## NYC Composer

No pictures, sorry. Just incredibly encouraging stats. I know , I know-nothing matters, and it's all bullshit.

What really matters is tax cuts for billionaires aka Donald.

Can't ya just feel the golden trickle down running down your face? It will be a veritable golden shower.


----------



## chimuelo

You're a good man Larry.
Told you this before. Telling you again.
But those commercials with the great white man fully clothed nice shoes trimmed hair and beard being filmed by wooden shacks and kids with no shoes, sick from the water he kneels by, obviously wearing insect repellent as the kids talk with flies on thier faces, etc. 
Watching these commercials are like these conventions. A bunch of bull shit.
Maybe some stories and pictures of the child you saved now going to a school somewhere, having a shot at life.
Or even the cold hard truth that yes you saved this child, but he was eaten by a Lion as he carried water home.
Or died by a stray Spear during a tribal conflict.
If billionaires get tax breaks Liberals will have more money.
They get paid lots of money to follow instructions and give speeches.


----------



## NYC Composer

I didn't save a child, Jimmy. I contributed to a vast network of donors who save millions of children outside the U.S., as malaria has been virtually wiped out in the U.S.

In the U.S. I mostly contribute to veterans orgs and work personally feeding insane homeless people left as trash on the street.

Yay me! Not the point- point is that I don't think it is ultimately helpful to give in to cynicism without trying to make some attempt to contribute.

I suggest to you that in the face of the data (as best we can make sense of it) your position that there is no possible improvement in the world is unsustainable. I also suggest that you are a good and compassionate person with some realistic ideas and some entrenched and cynical ideas.


----------



## chimuelo

We do agree that Government is useless and the private sector is required to fix anything.
Keep up the good work Larry.
I was homeless once and slept at St.Vincent's Catholic Charities.

Those tight fisted Catholics forced us to work everyday.
Checked our breath when we returned every night.
The girls shelter was across the street but there was some skanky chicks there, no trim what so ever.


----------



## NYC Composer

...and so having received help, I'm sure you're "paying it forward."


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> We do agree that Government is useless and the private sector is required to fix anything.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Right-wing myth alert.

The Government is groups of people. The private sector is groups of people. Sometimes people do well. Sometimes they mess up. 

Consider roads and bridges. Without tax dollars and government, who would fund them them? Billionaires would build private helopads and roads from their homes to their boat launches.

What, you think the roads, stop lights, and road signs were funded by magic?

And then there's education. Back before the Government got into the education business, did the private sector fund it? No. It took government to fund universal K-12 education.

And who do you think enforces contract law that allows business to thrive in the first place?

The best system is when we have functional government (to meet needs) as well as a healthy private sector (to meet demands, which are desire+cash.)

The "government bad" myth is a lie.

Of course, we need checks and balances to keep any one person or group in government from abusing their power and doing bad things. For instance, lying about WMDs to start a war in Iraq to increase funds to private sector investments was really, really bad. Authoritarian governments act badly too, which is why we need to keep Trump in his golden tower and out of the White House.


----------



## chimuelo

Why do Wealthy Liberals send thier kids to Private Sector schools if these Federal Union Schools are so good?

We spend an obscene amount of money and 3rd world nations blow our system away.


----------



## NYC Composer

As far as I can tell, as much for the connections and the prestige as the education. Wealth begets wealth


----------



## chimuelo

Our education system is full of Agists.
Not from the Phobia family, but the family of ists.
Brother to Massagan, Race, Social, Commune, Sex and many others as the ist family is almost as large as the ism family.
Agists believe people of the same age must be incubated together.
When I was 6 I skipped a grade because mother spent time teaching me when I was 4.
I was then put into Catholic Racist school.
Returned to social engineering center again in 11th grade.
Was not allowed to skip 12th even though I had a scholarship waiting.

This is agism.
Forcing folks with superior intellect to be held back as it offends others.

My kids text books were so namby pamby I laughed.
He scored so high on his SAT they inferred he cheated.
I told them some parents find what interests kids then pushes them towards where they excel.
You can learn thier stupid diversity Crap in the real world instead of making it into some advanced course.

The grading system is rigged like the 2 political parties.
A pathetic joke.

So I have to hand it to Liberals for not allowing thier kids into these Union Incubation Centers.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Our education system is full of Agists.
> Not from the Phobia family, but the family of ists.
> Brother to Massagan, Race, Social, Commune, Sex and many others as the ist family is almost as large as the ism family.
> Agists believe people of the same age must be incubated together.
> When I was 6 I skipped a grade because mother spent time teaching me when I was 4.
> I was then put into Catholic Racist school.
> Returned to social engineering center again in 11th grade.
> Was not allowed to skip 12th even though I had a scholarship waiting.
> 
> This is agism.
> Forcing folks with superior intellect to be held back as it offends others.
> 
> My kids text books were so namby pamby I laughed.
> He scored so high on his SAT they inferred he cheated.
> I told them some parents find what interests kids then pushes them towards where they excel.
> You can learn thier stupid diversity Crap in the real world instead of making it into some advanced course.
> 
> The grading system is rigged like the 2 political parties.
> A pathetic joke.
> 
> So I have to hand it to Liberals for not allowing thier kids into these Union Incubation Centers.


You're right-only exceptional children should be educated in elite schools and the rest should be pouring concrete. Somebody's got to build those casinos for the oligarchs, after all


----------



## chimuelo

Good one Lare....

I dropped out after 1 year. NCL Lines out of Miami was much more fun than Shakespeare or becoming a teacher.

Or at least let them form advanced classes in the same school where age doez not apply.
Just for a 1 hour class.
My niece and her mother are dedicated teachers.
They truly believe in a constant cycle of experimentation.
But only Charter schools for poor kids were doing that.
The Educrats in DC do not tolerate any change to thidr failing cirriculums.

Sadly Liberals bow to the Teachers Unions and follow thier instructions.
For 80,000,000 bucks every 2 years kicked back to thier campaigns you cant blame them
Sad to see tax payers money laundered back like that.
Thats the crap that allowed Citizens United to be argued then passed.

But honest, they care about thd little people. They swear it....


----------



## NYC Composer

...but you educated yourself, as did I, and it's always ongoing.


----------



## chimuelo

Yes but there was competition and challenges become oppurtunity.
If you want to see a real progressive State read about Nevada offering school choice.
Goes against big liberal union philosophy.

In 2009 when California New York and Illinois laid off teachers we see not a single Union or Federal Educrat lost thier job.
They dont care for Charter schools either.
Competition reveals their failure over the last 50 years.

But Nevada for the first time created a room tax to make sure teachers would not lose thier job.

School choice......omg.
You mean poor kids have a path from the liberal ghetto?

Read how Nevada charges corporations making billions to provide school choice.
No other state does this.
They want to be progressive, but making Goldfish illegal as pets gets widespread cheers.

Proud of my State.


----------



## NYC Composer

You can rail about the system all you want, Jim- you can't possibly believe Trump is a feasible choice.


----------



## chimuelo

I know he isnt feasible.
We need to thank him for cementing our suspicions for our children to see.
The 2 party system is 1 big rigged system controlled by money.

That way they dont have to be disappointed as we were thinking these people solve problems.

Youre on your own.
Free stuff isnt free, Windows 10, health care, education....

They can change this in 2020.

Seeing the first women president becoming a billionaire while serving is historical.

Trump doesnt want to win.
He is going to make even more money after her purposely loses.

Look af his lack of money spent.
Wont show his taxes.
Any serious candidate would be doing at least some of the usual requirements.

But wealthy white liberals are all really old and are going to go for the big bucks thier last r years.

I must say I admire how they stayed elected and made incredible fortunes over the decades.
And people will still sah they did great?

I need such Sheep at my gigs.
I could just show up play the 25 tunes, have people tell me how great I am....


----------



## NYC Composer

Those sheep you mention may elect him Predident. Then your wealthy white liberals will be forced to lobby, and wealthy white religious anti-science white men will be back in charge, except they'll be lacking a leader with a cool head and a decent heart.

Will he make schools better? Will he be good for the economy, for foreign relations (other than with Russia)?

This guy knows nothing, and it may not matter


----------



## chimuelo

You honestly buy the idea that Solar Panels and windmills can alter the natural warming period that follows an ice age?
Climate change is real.
Entire civilizations found underwater or buried in a jungle proove that.
Reducing CO2 will not change that cycle.
We as humans are 3% of CO2 emmissions.
Sure we contribute but at most are only bringing about a natural cycle sooner than when it would have occured naturally.

Solar and Wind are mere back up energy for small isolated areas.
The future is Oxygen and Hydrogen based fuel.
Preferrably used in current Combustion engines.
They will run slower, this has already become intellectual property patents.

Wish I knew why they are pushing and subsidizing an energy plan that failed in Europe causing Spain to become bancrupt.
As we speak Germany and China are opening up Coal plants at a record pace. 
I built a Clean Coal Plant in 1993.
They claim it doesnt work but it has been running for 20+ years.
Everyone in Las Vegas pays thier energy bill to the company in Northern Nevada where I built it.?
I made 2500 bucks a week playing at Harveys and Ceasers Lake Tahoe at night, pouring mud in Reno during the day.

Its a conspiracy theory.
Just like it was in Vegas when we told them black fast Jets were buzzing our trucks north of Vegas.

Theres no Stealth Jets, and Area 51 doesnt exist.
You guys are whackos....

Another reason I read everything a real liberal named Jonathan Turley writes....

Cheerz


----------



## Soundhound

You're shtick would have more credibility, Herr Jimmy, if your right wing tourettes didn't make you blame liberals for everything. If you placed the blame equally on right wing ideologues and bought and sold democrats who pose as liberals, that would be understandable. Blaming liberals for everything pretty much leaves you without a leg to stand on. If you mean to say neoliberals then you should say it. But I don't think that's what you mean.

There isn't gridlock, there aren't forceful voices on both sides of the aisle trying to hammer out the details for the greater good. Here's what there is:

A) Ronald Reagan sold the working class on two big lies—corporations had their best interests at heart, and big government was the ultimate problem. This caused terrible damage. But it got much worse because of:

B) Fox News. Roger Aisles created the greatest propaganda machine the western world has ever suffered from. He took the Reagan lie and ran with it. Now an entire generation has grown up thinking that government is the problem, that black people are lazy. And that their freedoms are being taken away from them - whatever the hell that means. It actually means nothing, it's a dog whistle. This selfish, entirely fictional concept has now metastasized into:

C) The modern right wing, which is essentially a white supremacist movement. Donald Trump saw that he could use it to sell himself as a law and order candidate, and won the Republican party's nomination with it. He's exactly the same guy he's always been, a laughable narcissist and a sociopath. But this disgusting, reprehensible asshole is now within shouting distance of the Presidency thanks to the dumbing down of a large segment of the public by Fox News.

I don't think it's going to happen, I don't think he's going to win. But god help us if it were to happen. Jill Stein's take on what's going on I find very compelling. But I don't agree that we can take a chance with Trump. It's a terrible, dangerous idea. I think Clinton is way to hawkish. I worry about her being too cozy with wall street. But I can't for a minute consider not voting for her with Donald Trump as the opposition.


----------



## chimuelo

Not my schtick that matters.

It's the majority of Americans that will vote for Trump that should concern fake Liberals.

They see a world that went into chaos and an economy that cannot hit 3% GDP.
Wall Street and Hillary are doing great.
The voters were left out to watch Liberal multi millionaires lose lie and fail at everything.

When you turn your back on the silent majority, complicate their lives, and lie for temporary gains, those folks remember you.
Trump is a flawed candidate but he is thier way out of Liberal debt and enslavement.

Liberals are history.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ah, now the sheep are the silent majority and "those folks." So the sheep were always "the liberals". Got it. Can be hard to keep track. Very Nixonian of you.


----------



## chimuelo

We're all Sheep Larry.
The difference is Sheep content versus angry Sheep.
The angry Sheep are showing up in greater numbers.
It's 1968 again.
As was then, feckless micro management of the military.
Rich Liberals removed from office.
LBJ stepped down, Obama and Hillary double down telling how great thier lives have been and will continue to be if they are allowed to fund raise for years more.


----------



## NYC Composer

So Donald Trump and an entire cast of Republicans will not enrich themselves in a new administration. Sweet.


----------



## chimuelo

They will get rich. That's our system.
It's a reward for winning.
Clinton's have made so much money from serving us that people say that's enough.
Fake Liberals should have known Hillary couldn't win.
They had to rig the primary just to beat an elderly hippie.

Then everyone from the corrupt system is marched onto the stage to support the person they called a racist last time around.

Bernie and Tulsi could have beat Trump.
Hillary can get tears in her eyes again and it won't matter.
She can't win.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh so recently it was Trump who couldn't win, now it's Clinton?


----------



## chimuelo

Yelp.
It all hinged around Bill and Lorettss runway rendezvous, Assange and Wikipedia's will do the rest.

Trump might ruin the advantage.
But she won't win from convincing voters she's the gal.


----------



## NYC Composer

....and Trump encouraging espionage, no problem!


----------



## chimuelo

No problem when the news cycle continues to speak about Trump even during the DNC Convention.
He's in your face 24/7 for free.
Liberals can't get enough of him.

But let's forget the elites.
Im writing music today.

I hear an Andy Williams style voice.
Grand piano brush drums upright bass and strings....
Here's some lyrics.
Tell me what you think.


Catherine Zeta Jones.....
She dips beneath the lasers....


----------



## Soundhound

An important work. The undercurrent of sentimentality is understandable given the seriousness of the subject matter. Bravo!


----------



## NYC Composer

That's some nice work! I think I heard it in a nightmare once....


----------



## JonFairhurst

Trump supporters want an authoritarian strong man. Okay. So what authoritarian regime do they most want to emulate? There are many examples:

1) Hitler's Germany
2) Mussolini's Italy
3) Franco's Spain
4) Saddam's Iraq
5) Kim's South Korea
6) Pinochet's Chile
7) Gaddafi's Libya
8) Putin's Russia
9) Stalin's Russia
10) Amin's Uganda
11) Mugabe's Zimbabwe
12) Noriega's Panama
13) Duvalier's Haiti
14) Assad's Syria
15) Mao's China
16) Pot's Cambodia
17) Bonaparte's France
18) Tito's Yugoslavia
19) Milosovic's Serbia
20) Lukashenko's Belarus
21) Erdoğan's Turkey

In fact, there are many, many more examples of dictatorships in history than there are of democracies. Please let me know which authoritarian regime you see as the best model for the US.

Regarding Hillary, the model is pretty clear, and it is in fact a democracy:
1) (Bill) Clinton, US

Personally, I thought the '90s were pretty good.

And I think authoritarianism sucks.


----------



## chimuelo

You left out Fidel and Hugo.
Sean Penn should grab El Chapo, make a jail break and head for the Socialist utopia Hugo made for his daughter.

I'm trying to hook up with his daughter who ran off with 5 billion serving the little people in thier struggle with the evils of capitalism.


----------



## NYC Composer

Re Duvalier, everyone forgets his neighbor in the Dominican-Rafael Trujillo. That guy was a motherfucker.

There's also the Phillipines' Marcos, and who could forget our friends Mubarak of Egypt and the Shah of Iran, Palavi!


----------



## chimuelo

I just saw Assad's Syria....?
I thought Hillary said he was a moderate, a guy who was down with Hope and Change, etc.

What is a moderate anyway?

They only behead monthly, or quarterly?

Looking forward to more outstanding judgement from our most experienced leaders....


----------



## JonFairhurst

Definitely, not an exhaustive list! And probably every ruler outside of Athens was a dictator before the US was formed.

But the question stands. Trump has positioned himself as a strongman who can take charge and solve everything. He's tipped his hat to Putin, Saddam, and Kim as strong leaders whom he admires. The GOP has selected Trump and I want to better understand their vision. The question is...

Which authoritarian regime does the GOP strive to emulate?


----------



## chimuelo

One where executive orders would be used since the last administration set things up nicely for the next President.

Ban lobbying and ask the voters for support from the Bully Pulpit.

We could get rid of wealthy white Liberals and Conservatives for good that way.

Let's face it they require millions to "serve," their salaries are basically Shopping Mall money for wives or allowances for their children in their private schools since nobody with any money would subject a child to the current failing Union School System.

We borrowed money from the Credit Union to keep our kid out of the Incubation Centers.


----------



## Soundhound

Donald Trump would ban lobbying. Oh for fuck's sake Jimmy....


----------



## chimuelo

It sure would make the wealthy Liberals and Conservatives go back to make believe land at some University or set up shop on Wall Street.

I was simply dreaming out loud.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Maybe he can ban the news media while he's at it.

“I do hate them,’’ Donald Trump has said of political journalists. “Some of them are such lying, disgusting people. … (They’re) among the most dishonest groups of people I’ve ever met.’’ In October, he said 50% of reporters were “terrible.’’ He’s since upped that to “70 to 75%.’’

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...n-new-york-times-des-moine-register/81576826/

Funny how he never seems to use the words like "disgusting" or "terrible" about the KKK or white supremacist groups.

And, he thinks the US shouldn't criticize Turkey's Erdogan - especially about human rights.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/21/donald-trump-says-u-s-shouldnt-criticize-turkeys-erdogan-over-post-coup-purge/

Meanwhile, Erdogan has shut down 130 media outlets.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/turkey-shuts-down-130-media-8507156

Cause, hey, that's the way authoritarians roll.


----------



## Soundhound

What can one say?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/29/w...e-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0


----------



## chimuelo

Right on, we can finally get rid of Heraldo...


----------



## JonFairhurst

It's nothing new. One of the CIA's first tasks was to manipulate the 1948 Italian election.

If anyone thinks that the Russians aren't actively manipulating our election, well, they're naive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_general_election,_1948#Superpower_influence


----------



## chimuelo

They should pay to manipulate us.
Bunch of freeloaders.

At least Hillary gets millions from foreign nations and billionaires to manipulate our system.


----------



## chimuelo

Who would have believed the wealthy Liberals would build a big wall to protect themselves where a photo ID is required to enter, and make tax payers pay for it.
Welcome to the Democratic National Convention where the wealthiest whites and thier minorities try to convince the world and Americans how great things are.

Americans would love a border like that but sorry, rich whites only get that kind of security.

The level of criminality and hypocrisy is astounding.
To have so many Sheep cheering them on is amazing auto suggestive skills.

But after suffering through the self platitudes I was relieved to have Katie Perry tell me my voice counted and was equal to Soros, Styers, Buffet as well as any NRA lobbyist.
Obviously she leads a large flock of Sheep.

So after 2 weeks of liars with prime time coverage I conclude we are foked.

God Bless The USA......


----------



## NYC Composer

A career of public service vs a career of self service. A middle class kid vs a silver spoon born-to-wealth kid. A self effacing do-gooder vs a boastful scam artist/huckster. I suppose if you subscribe to Objectivism, that wonderfully unscientific Ayn Rand nonsense, you elevate the wealthy businessman regardless of his unearned advantages and shady business practices. God bless the wealthy who trickle their golden effluvia down upon our grateful heads.


----------



## chimuelo

Hillary promises free school and debt refinancing for millions stuck in mom's basement with Gender Awareness Degrees.

I'm voting for her because of really important issues that need solving.
Mostly standardizing canned Fruit.
Why can't they be stackable like Vegetables & Soup.
Nothing Jack's me off more than driving into town for Indian River Ruby Red Grapefruit.
You reach into the shelves to grab some and shit falls all over since NO Fruit cans are stackable.

How long must Americans continue suffering under such sub standard conditions.


----------



## JonFairhurst

The Democratic Convention was at Stages 4 & 5 this week. Trump is the distillation of Stage 3. Chim, I'm afraid that you're stuck in Stage 1. Climb up the ladder, bud.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

ROFLMAO


----------



## chimuelo

Ankyu


----------



## NYC Composer

I love these cartoon wars (both sides)


----------



## Baron Greuner

Who is Boris Johnson describing here?

“She’s got dyed blonde hair and pouty lips, and a steely blue stare, like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital”.

(check pictures above)


----------



## chimuelo

Could be the African chick, or the Indian or the Wall Street White.
They certainly have the races covered.
Want a real good laugh?
Check out DNC emails as they discuss racial positioning of thier minorities to be viewed behind thier Queen and other selected speakers.

With Trump it's easy to picture Hooded Klansmen stilled robed, but seated behind him holding thier hoods with a few confused paid blacks unsure of why they're there.


----------



## Soundhound

I don't buy the 'both sides' thing Larry. False equivalency that validates the insane right wing. Jimmy's Fox Newsworthy pictorial is a great example. The hypocrisy from the right wing is olympian in stature. Republicans are so freaking repressed they're constantly getting caught molesting young boys, and they impeach Bill Clinton for getting a blowjob. You know what local businesses flourished most in Cleveland during the convention? Gay male prostitutes, and the vast majority of their business was from lily white 'first timers'. The American Taliban (formerly the Republican party) has found it's perfect voice in Donald Trump. He expresses exactly what they've been thinking for decades now. Hearing it out loud must be unbelievably embarrassing.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump will unite whites world wide by courting Russia, Serbia and Eastern Europeans who haven't assimilated into the multi cultural globalist utopia, that like all other wealthy white Liberal globalist endeavors has failed.

This will hasten the removal of fake Conservatives and Liberals leaving the Hispanics in charge since whites and blacks are reliving thier past thanks to Holder and Sharpton.

We shall be eternally grateful to wealthy Liberals for screwing things up so bad, we can just walk right in and assume power.

Jose can you see...
By the dawns early light.....
What so proudly Liberals failed...
At the twilight last gleaming.....


----------



## Soundhound

ooookay... next caller?


----------



## chimuelo

This is Air America, we have a frothing Liberal on line 4, what's your name and why do you no longer want to be white......
Sorry, you're a the Trans guy who no longer wants to be a man....
What's your beef......
I want to piss in a urinal still but women's restrooms don't have any stand UPS, so I am offended from this racive passive micro aggression....
OK thanks for calling...back to the confused white Liberal......
Hi, yes I want to sing Luther Ingrams song If loving you is wrong, I don't wanna be right....
Okay, caller sing it...

My friends and neighbors say it's okay,
Making love to a married man,
If I can't see you when I want,
I'll see you when I can.....

If loving you is wrong,
I don't wanna be white....

Excellent voice, up against a hard break.
Now a few words from our wall street sponsors......


----------



## Soundhound

Cheating! That's an edited Rush Limbaugh transcript, you can't fool me.


----------



## Soundhound

Wrong woodpile. Even the shortest of visits to Fox News provides a wealth of excellent answers to that question:












Baron Greuner said:


> Who is Boris Johnson describing here?
> 
> “She’s got dyed blonde hair and pouty lips, and a steely blue stare, like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital”.
> 
> (check pictures above)


----------



## JonFairhurst

Gees. Fox News anchors Are even blonder than the GOP interns.


----------



## Soundhound

Sunscreen people, sunscreen!


----------



## NYC Composer

Zealots of any stripe inevitably state their positions as objective truth. I find that rmy position as a non-zealot liberal allows me more opportunity for reasoning.


----------



## Soundhound

Does steadfast opposition to the modern republican party count as zealotry?

Zealotry

1. fanatical and uncompromising pursuit of religious, political, or other ideals; fanaticism.

Really?


----------



## NYC Composer

Do you think your political truths are objective ones? Do you think they're rife with possibilities to compromise?


----------



## Soundhound

There is objective truth, as best we can each judge it. Not sure what you mean by political truth?

My greatest concern about current politics is that today's right wing was brought up under Reagan/Aisles propaganda. It's all they know, and it's a divisive, selfish, self destructive, jingoistic, empty point of view. Their worldview is so radical, so divorced from reality, I don't see how they can be compromised with. But what the hell do I know? Hopefully there are people out there with answers about how to do it. I certainly can't.


----------



## NYC Composer

What I mean by political truth and objective truths is this:so many people discussing politics express their opinions as objective truths. Example:

1. "Donald Trump said this on Twitter..."blah blah blah."
If he actually said it, it's a truth.

2. "Donald Trump said "blah blah blah" on Twitter, which means he thinks that blah blah blah" is not a truth, it calls for some form of speculation, yet is often presented as fact.

Worse than that, however, are some of the ways that Jimmy and others (sorry Jim, but this is how I see it) express their opinions as objective truths using scorn, ridicule and a smokescreen of amused disaffection as forms of rhetorical warfare.


----------



## chimuelo

I only operate on current liars.
No need to go back to Bill and Dubya.
But if it helps soothe the pain of voting on a known liar I understand the need for distraction.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Let me try that again. 

Who is Boris Johnson describing here?

“She’s got dyed blonde hair and pouty lips, and a steely blue stare, like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital - and looks like a fucking wigwam?"


----------



## NYC Composer

"Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care...(about BoJo.."


----------



## JonFairhurst

Baron Greuner said:


> Let me try that again.
> 
> Who is Boris Johnson describing here?



Therapist: "Boris, when you look in the mirror and envision your ideal self, whom do you see?"



Boris Johnson said:


> "She’s got dyed blonde hair and pouty lips, and a steely blue stare, like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital - and looks like a fucking wigwam."


----------



## Soundhound

Well here's the thing. An entire generation has been brought up on right wing lies. The result has been not gridlock in government, as the right wing likes to couch it, but abject obstructionism from the right. From the Reagan 'revolution' to Fox News taking over the public dialogue, the right came to feel that they own all this. That far right wing ideology, which is absolute nonsense in every way, is the word of god (sometimes metaphorically, often, disturbingly, literally) and that anyone who disagrees is against the U.S. in some way. It's a fascistic mindset. It's an infantile, dangerous belief system, and it has come full flower in Donald Trump. He has no idea what any of this means of course, he's an unwitting cipher for the right, in truth just a sleazy sideshow barker trying to sell his wares.

In light of what's going on, what I say may seem hard line, I guess. I'm fine with that. Having spent two decades listening to the country being poisoned by corporate whores like Ronald Reagan and Tom Delay and George W Bush and Dick Cheney, when the opposing side of the argument finally started finding it's voice in the 2000s, it was understandably stringent. I find myself stating things more adamantly and more strongly than I might under other circumstances because the right wing is so deeply entrenched, has wormed its way so thoroughly into the country's political discourse, that it feels like patient, reasoned argument is a waste of time with these people. They don't see the world as it really is, they see the world as Fox News has told them it is. And the Democrats have only rarely had the courage to stick to their guns. For the most part throughout this awful regression into corporate control of government, it's been a party of cowards.

Taking Ayn Rand seriously isn't just a laughable idea anymore. The Speaker of The House of Representatives is a fan of hers. This is very, very dangerous stuff.



NYC Composer said:


> What I mean by political truth and objective truths is this:so many people discussing politics express their opinions as objective truths. Example:
> 
> 1. "Donald Trump said this on Twitter..."blah blah blah."
> If he actually said it, it's a truth.
> 
> 2. "Donald Trump said "blah blah blah" on Twitter, which means he thinks that blah blah blah" is not a truth, it calls for some form of speculation, yet is often presented as fact.
> 
> Worse than that, however, are some of the ways that Jimmy and others (sorry Jim, but this is how I see it) express their opinions as objective truths using scorn, ridicule and a smokescreen of amused disaffection as forms of rhetorical warfare.


----------



## chimuelo

He won't win SHound.
The evil corporations you associate to those who ruffle your wool have already purchased Liberals.
3 of them were Obama cabinet members.
America is a corporation.
Your hopes of leaving that was Sanders or Trump.
You made your bed now sleep in it.

I'm fine with or without a corporation.
But due to the benefits of a classical education my perceptions are based in reality not corporate media.

The 2 Crime Families are the right and left arm of a giant multi national corporation.
Seems you eat sleep and see with 1 left eye and 1 left arm.
If I were you I'd try and get over your indoctrination and just enjoy life a little more.
Do you watch Fox News all the time?
Check out Nat Geo or PBR more.

I like Globe Trekker, Parts Unknown, and NatGeo.

I can't even listen to a lying Liberal or Conservative.
It's depressing being lied to.
An insult to our intelligence.

Move on bro and let the wealthy white Liberals bring 4 more years of 1.2% non growth.

It's thier base that suffers, the rest of us get along just fine.
Someday those Sheep will rise up.
Then get some extra food and that's about it.


----------



## NYC Composer

FWIW, Alan Greenspan was an actual inner circle acolyte of Ayn Rand's. You can't make some of this stuff up.

Jimmy strikes me strongly as an "Objectivist."


----------



## chimuelo

I dislike all of the servants of global elites.
Let's face the facts.
The political class is for sale.
Elections are rigged.

How can anyone expect or demand thier concerns be addressed when you don't have any money.

Nothing personal, just business....


----------



## Soundhound

Is that right? So we have Ayn Rand to Alan Greenspan as well? Jesus, the damage done by right wing maniacs never ends, does it?




NYC Composer said:


> FWIW, Alan Greenspan was an actual inner circle acolyte of Ayn Rand's. You can't make some of this stuff up.
> 
> Jimmy strikes me strongly as an "Objectivist."


----------



## chimuelo

Someday soon folks might realize the left wing and right wing is controlled by a brain.
It decides which wing flaps and how much.
Then the Sheep become angry and that anger is fed by the other wing the brain decides to use until it's back to the other wing.
Over the decades small changes are made.
But face the facts. Billions and trillions disappear from the books.
This grease makes the wheels keep turning.
All Sheep get an occasional win.
Gay marriage, Bin Laden....pretty good considering what the rest of the world got.


----------



## Soundhound

I hope he won't. I'm now living in suburbs outside of Atlanta for a year and a half. It's hot as hades, there is a giant church almost on every street. American flags hanging in every other yard. Scary shit.

Here's your boy, Jimmy:







chimuelo said:


> He won't win SHound.
> The evil corporations you associate to those who ruffle your wool have already purchased Liberals.
> 3 of them were Obama cabinet members.
> America is a corporation.
> Your hopes of leaving that was Sanders or Trump.
> You made your bed now sleep in it.
> 
> I'm fine with or without a corporation.
> But due to the benefits of a classical education my perceptions are based in reality not corporate media.
> 
> The 2 Crime Families are the right and left arm of a giant multi national corporation.
> Seems you eat sleep and see with 1 left eye and 1 left arm.
> If I were you I'd try and get over your indoctrination and just enjoy life a little more.
> Do you watch Fox News all the time?
> Check out Nat Geo or PBR more.
> 
> I like Globe Trekker, Parts Unknown, and NatGeo.
> 
> I can't even listen to a lying Liberal or Conservative.
> It's depressing being lied to.
> An insult to our intelligence.
> 
> Move on bro and let the wealthy white Liberals bring 4 more years of 1.2% non growth.
> 
> It's thier base that suffers, the rest of us get along just fine.
> Someday those Sheep will rise up.
> Then get some extra food and that's about it.


----------



## chimuelo

If I were faced with a Church of God or a Liberal Incubation Center Id go with which ever one had a keyboard.
Then pretend I was a believer to get along, suffer through thier speeches, look forward to practice time.

This is how I feel around Liberal and Conservative Sheep.


----------



## Soundhound

Did you see Cornel West and Barney Frank going at it on Bill Mahr?


----------



## chimuelo

Sure didnt but I bet he told Barney wealthy white Liberals are useless.
Then Frank probably blamed Republicans for his failures.
Same shuck and jive routine.

Anybody ask Barnie about his new love of Banks?


----------



## NYC Composer

He wrote a pathetic letter defending himself. It's on the Internet like everything is.


----------



## NYC Composer

I just had a mini revelation, keyed in by a book I'm reading. 

The frustrations of practically everyone in this thread, regardless of our varying views, could be ascribed to our collective inability to impose order on chaos.


----------



## Soundhound

Cornel West was great, never seen him that close to actually being angry. Frank looked pretty sheepish about getting paid for speeches by wall street. 

Writing with virtual instruments is definitely a pursuit for order freaks, come to think of it!


----------



## NYC Composer

Nude Melania pix surface! Well, better that than nude Bill pix, got to say. Still-

A primer on the old adage "never answer the question asked, answer the question you wish to be asked":

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/31/media/donald-trump-melania-new-york-post/index.html


----------



## JonFairhurst

If you read one essay on the election, read this one by John McCain's granddaughter...


----------



## NYC Composer

Ok, I read it-but really, John McCain's granddaughter?? The man called her grandfather a failure for being captured..." I like the ones who aren't captured, 'k?" he breezily sneered. I mean, anyone with a halfway decent grandfather would want to bitchslap DJT for that stupidity.


----------



## JonFairhurst

The interesting thing to me is the fracture it shows in the GOP. Her grandfather ran for president as a Republican just eight years ago, she shares many of their stated values, yet she's voting for Hillary. Is this just one voice or the sign of the dam breaking.


----------



## JonFairhurst

...even The Simpsons (on FOX no less) are piling on...


----------



## chimuelo

I think the investors should choose the winner.
Israel and Saudi Arabia have invested heavily into the Clinton Foundation.
Maybe Iran can give back some of the billions Kerry and Obama gave them.
Then they can write the laws.

Us Sheep have no say and never will.
The sooner we deal with that reality the less painful these never ending campaigns will become.

Jill Stein being all grey haired and everything is kind of sexy.

Chelsea Clinton's speech sounded like a patron ordering food at a restaurant she'd never been to.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey, did you enjoy Rudy's speech? Kind of Howard Dean, except more.


----------



## chimuelo

The Generals, the Mayors, the Movie Stars, the endless parade of victims, is boring.
Meryl Streep was more like Howard Dean.
Our adversaries should be terrified that Americans get an invader like Hillary with the global consortium, or Trump who wants to unite the whites of Russia and Eastern Europe for the 4th Reich...

Of course I don't see it as anything other than bored billionaires, and incompetent public servants trying to remain relevant.
But the foreign press is having a field day with this stuff.


----------



## NYC Composer

Guess you didn't. Giuliani looked and sounded demented.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Hillary's an invader now? I had no idea that she had already been Commander in Chief. Or maybe you're talking about all those wars that Bill Clinton started. [crickets]

Oh, you're probably talking about the vote on the Iraq 2002 Congressional Resolution authorizing the use of military force against Iraq. Yeah, the vote was cowardly, but it didn't start the war:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffr...hs-about-hillary-iraq-war-vote_b_9177420.html

It's easy to have it both ways on foreign policy. Just blame the actions of the enemy on your political opponent. If your political opponent doesn't launch an all-out offensive, they coddled the enemy. If they go all-in, every action by the enemy shows their incompetence. 

The bottom line is that Clinton is the most experienced candidate on diplomacy and foreign policy since John McCain. (He has military experience on his side; she has state department experience on her side.) Trump, on the other hand, doesn't just lack experience, he bungles the art of diplomacy on a daily basis. If you think that starting a world war over the assassination of a duke was stupid, just imagine the conflicts he could ignite over petty insults (real and perceived.)

Frankly, when it comes to foreign policy, I would 100% trust President Hillary Clinton.


----------



## Soundhound

The awful result of all this may well be that after the election, when, hopefully, Trump loses, and loses badly, the radical right will seem acceptable, a new normal. People like Ted Cruz, Scott Walker, Paul Ryan et. al., primitive ideologues who are hell bent on regressive social policy and disastrous economic policy, will still be in charge of the Republican party. The racist hatred that Trump is channelling isn't going away, millions of people love him because he makes it okay to say what they've been thinking for years. And they will vote Republican up and down the line. 

I'd like to believe that Trump will destroy the Republican party, but I worry that he has just helped the cancer spread.


----------



## NYC Composer

Classic point, 'hound. I like the fact that rather than staying in the moment, you're expanding your depression into the future for years to come 

But seriously-I agree.

I'm having regrets that I didn't volunteer for Bernie.


----------



## Soundhound

Realism blows! I may have revert to my youthful days of escaping with controlled substances. Might throw out my back trying to roll a joint though...


----------



## chimuelo

Well I am optimistic from getting involved in my first primary.
Very refreshing and makes me want to do this again.
Look forward to 2020.
Will help remove which ever one of these 2 wins in 2016.


----------



## NYC Composer

Bernie 2020!


----------



## chimuelo

Bernie hasnt had 20/20 for 40....

Labor Day Debate 1
Sunday NFL Game debate 2
Debate 3 Monday Night NFL


----------



## NYC Composer

Long as it's not the Giants, I don't give a shit.


----------



## chimuelo

Im still shocked in this day and age people dont TIVO or use media to record.
I am so impatient its perfect for me.
I fast forward even on movies I havent seen yet.


----------



## NYC Composer

I TIVO, but I want to see my Giants right when they happen. The debates can wait.


----------



## chimuelo

I meant TIVO the debate.
Thats the problem with these elections.
They fundraise for them years in advance then start earlier every election.
Tends to interfere with the process plus by the time an election rolls around Im not interested in being lied to anymore.
My suspension of disbelief threshold has been met.


----------



## Soundhound

We've been Tivo/DVRing forever. I worked on the TiVo account years ago and we got one early on and got hooked. I have no idea what channel things are on, or when they're really on. If we're watching something in real time my wife keeps pushing the Forward button and when nothing happens has to be administered a refreshing glass of red wine.


----------



## NoamL

Trump is already setting the stage for blaming everybody but himself when he loses. How can someone be so transparent and still fool so many people?


----------



## Baron Greuner

What? You never heard of Messrs Cameron, Osborne and Carney?


----------



## NoamL

Trump screwed the pooch this election. He has nothing in common with David Cameron; from what I read, Cameron is more into pork.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Cameron has been fired by the country and still he's managed to cause yet another clusterfuck this week.


----------



## NYC Composer

The gaffes keep coming. Insulting Gold Star families, mothers of babies, Purple Heart recipients....

I think more Republicans will be jumping ship soon and start paddling towards a safe shore.


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> The gaffes keep coming. Insulting Gold Star families, mothers of babies, Purple Heart recipients....
> 
> I think more Republicans will be jumping ship soon and start paddling towards a safe shore.



There are no safe shores anymore.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Trump sees two kinds of people: enemies and property. Republican leaders need to decide if they want to be owned by this guy. 

Just look at Chris Christie. The guy is totally owned.


----------



## Soundhound

Enemies and property. Great summation of Trump's mind, if I can go so far as to call it a mind — more of a limbic system really.


----------



## chimuelo

Baron Greuner said:


> There are no safe shores anymore.



Republicans are supporting Bernie now because he embraced Billionaires and Wall Street.


----------



## chimuelo

I don't see Trump bouncing back from this last gaffe.
The Khans were the right speakers and the only true highlight other than our First Lady and Tulsi.
My on the fence friends are now tired of DJT and probably will join me with the anybody but crowd.
On another note Trade forums are mostly in espanol but you'd be shocked at the anger from the DNC boys and girls referring to Mexicans as Tacos.

Mexicans are strange. When you call them a Beamer they answer.
Calling them Taco anything and you're asking for trouble.
They're even thrashing our Pres.
Referring to DNC boys and girls as pinche gabachos and miyatas.

Most ginned up election in our lifetime.
Truly a target rich environment.


----------



## NYC Composer

That's because it's the Year of Trump! Love him or hate him, he's front and center in every discussion.

Until now I was sure it was all great for his brand, but now I'm starting to have doubts. I think his brand was stronger when he was a comic book character.


----------



## NYC Composer

JonFairhurst said:


> Trump sees two kinds of people: enemies and property. Republican leaders need to decide if they want to be owned by this guy.
> 
> Just look at Chris Christie. The guy is totally owned.


"Look at my white Governor!"


----------



## Hannes_F

NYC Composer said:


> I want to interject something here.
> 
> There are good people in this country. There are good people in the world. People who will make their small contributions to compassion and justice and fight monstrous wrongs when they have to.
> 
> We don't hear enough about these people, especially in the political cycle. It's in the interest of the media to emphasize the things that divide us, the things we disagree about, the pettiness that people surely do possess. We're a deeply flawed species, but we have our good moments as well.
> 
> I'm about to turn 62. I've seen some hard things, but I'm not going to give in to cynicism and despair. Ever.
> 
> I'm grateful for every day and I've been so very, very fortunate. I hope everyone here appreciates the good things life has given them.



Bravo Larry. It reminds me to a saying:

*A falling tree makes more noise than a growing forest.*

Credits: I heard this from Hans-Peter Dürr who said it was a Tibetan proverb.

I've spent quite some time with this little sentence, and it was valuable to me. What I have learned from this is: the noisy things go downwards, physically spoken they go towards increasing entropy, more disarrangement, and generally this is the direction of death. For example if you throw a snowball and release a snowslide that will go to the valley, and fast and noisy. Many people give much attention to this because seemingly a small cause (little snowball or stone) can have a great effect (big avalanche), and that is called amplification or efficiency. All the greedy people want to be efficient and fail to see that they are just throwing stones in hope to release an avalanche.

The interesting question is, where does all that energy really come from? Now that is really a good question.

So. the other direction (the uphill direction, towards lower entropy, more arrangement, order, information and organisation) is really the much more interesting one because that is the direction of growing, of life. A forest can grow hundreds of years without much noise. Just when one tree falls down you hear that. Similarly mankind is growing in a spiritual way, and more or less silent. All the little experiences, the uncountable heartaches and suffererigs of everyday life make people learn more and more perspectives on nature and life itself. No effort is lost, ever, and there are chances everywhere.

Such a little saying but it is full of consolation.


----------



## Hannes_F

Baron Greuner said:


> Say, have any of you guys been arrested by the president of Turkey yet? I'm waiting for the knock at the door. This guy isn't going to be happy until he's arrested most of the planet. What?


We are going to Turkey in two weeks and will perhaps have a more direct view on this afterwards.


----------



## chimuelo

A falling tree makes more noise than a growing forest....
The quote of the year.

I am a big quote lover, grew up on Mark Twain, and have been addicted to quotes ever since.
This one deserves a musical context.


----------



## NoamL

chimuelo said:


> I don't see Trump bouncing back from this last gaffe.
> The Khans were the right speakers and the only true highlight other than our First Lady and Tulsi.



I thought Kareem Abdul Jabbar also gave an excellent mini-speech, referencing Thomas Jefferson to defend the _real_ meaning of religious liberty as opposed to anti-gay bills like Mike Pence defended.

Anyway, the entire Democratic convention was an obvious Trump Trap... and Trump still fell for it.

The Democrats had not been shy about advertising that their research discovered that the single most effective Trump material for attack ads was the clip of him mocking a disabled reporter. In other words, Trump _*punching down*_ at an ordinary American instead of tackling the political establishment.

So what do the Democrats do? Fill their convention with "ordinary people," cross their fingers, and pray that Donald Trump picks a fight with one of them. Specifically Anastazia Somoza, Ryan Moore, and Khizr Khan were all picked as Trump-tweet bait, and quite likely coached on how events might proceed if Trump took the bait. In each case, the plan was for this "ordinary American's" quiet dignity to contrast with Trump's demeaning arrogance, etc etc. with Hillary Clinton to remain decidedly _off_stage in the whole affair.

I know that sounds horribly cynical, but in retrospect it's also obvious. And it worked brilliantly.

Think about it this way: if the Republicans had a disciplined candidate we'd be talking about the latest poor jobs report right now and jabbing at Hillary's perhaps greatest weakness (the contradiction between hugging Obama as close as she can, and her tone&policy concessions to the Berners and others who feel left out in the recovery).

Instead we had perhaps the worst single week for Trump's campaign since the Judge Curiel stuff.


The reason Republicans are tearing their hair out about Trump now is that _*they've*_ realized that _*Hillary's*_ realized she can bait Trump at will. That means turning _any_ news cycle into a "Trump has feud with XYZ" news cycle, at will. Trump's strength (dominating the news) is now Hillary's strength (controlling the news cycle).


----------



## NYC Composer

The reason that Republicans are tearing their hair out is that they've finally realized a horrible truth-when you lie down with the Devil, you're likely to be completely and utterly fucked, and not in a gentle manner. 

Before, they were concerned with winning the executive office. Now they're concerned for their own political skins.

So riddle me this, Batman-do you _really_ want a President who never listens to advice.....from _anyone_?


----------



## JonFairhurst

Great post, NoamL. That the Khans had their schedules open for the ensuing media parade backs up your thesis.

In fact, Trump reminds me of the worst kind of Internet troll. You go to a site created to debate public policy and the troll only wants to write about and react to the behavior of the people on the forum.

Back on the Chris Christie thing, he sadly reminds me of the fat kid that the bully lets sit at the table so long as everyone can insult him without him talking back. He's like a patsy and a toadie all wrapped into one package.


----------



## NYC Composer

Attention shoppers-93 days 'til Black Tuesday.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hannes_F said:


> We are going to Turkey in two weeks and will perhaps have a more direct view on this afterwards.



Have a nice time Hannes, but be aware at all times. Always be aware. Always be aware of foreigners Hannes. We Saxons need to stick together in times of uncertainty. 

It's a shame you can't take Hillary with you. My God, you'd be in safe hands then alright! What?


----------



## Soundhound

Are the neanderthals finally starting to get the bum's rush by people who are actually paying attention? Or am I too hopeful?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/u...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> The reason that Republicans are tearing their hair out is that they've finally realized a horrible truth-when you lie down with the Devil, you're likely to be completely and utterly fucked, and not in a gentle manner.
> 
> Before, they were concerned with winning the executive office. Now they're concerned for their own political skins.
> 
> So riddle me this, Batman-do you _really_ want a President who never listens to advice.....from _anyone_?


Most of the Republicans aren't "finally" realizing anything of the sort. Trump got about 45% of the votes in the Republican primaries. The rest of us knew him for who he is from the start.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hi Michael- where ya been??

To clarify, I'm talking about Republican politicians who have endorsed him and are running for office this year. They're increasingly viewing their careers as being at risk.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Hi Michael- where ya been??
> 
> To clarify, I'm talking about Republican politicians who have endorsed him and are running for office this year. They're increasingly viewing their careers as being at risk.


Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I've been doing something very important: working on a logo for a fictional basketball team.


----------



## NYC Composer

Sounds intriguing!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Sounds intriguing!


It's an absolute waste of time, but I enjoy doing it.


----------



## chimuelo

Everyone is way too tired of hearing Hillary and Trump.
Hillary is the only person who can defeat Hillary, and Trump is the only guy who can beat Trump.
I do believe he has beaten himself already.

My guess is Assange will get a pardon from Obama in exchange for classified data.
400,000,000 in Swiss Francs oughtta do it.
We don't negotiate or pay ransom to terrorists, just black mailers.

He's tired of being coupe'd up in that Ecuadorian Embassy.
We will miss his contributions.
They'll probably find him laying face down somewhere.
Or the King of Sweden and company will swoop down on his ass and try him for rape.

There's a 3 year wait on sexual assault cases I hear in Europe these days.


----------



## NYC Composer

There's never enough Trump!


----------



## chimuelo

His magic is gone.
There are no more races to offend.
My African American, Pochohantos, Mexicans, Muslims and saying the Chinese will be doing laundry again when he's finished negotiating....
Did I leave anyone out?

I will tune back in for the October surprise.
Otherwise these 2 ego maniacs are boring me to tears.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

The scenario that frightens me just as much as Txxxx winning (which is looking increasingly unlikely): either Txxxx drops out because he doesn't want to be a loser - note that he's already talking about a rigged election to save face - or the Rfux get rid of him.

POS Apall Aryan becomes the candidate. People believe the lie that he's a policy wonk rather than the total fraud and lunatic asshole he is.

That toilethead would be a freaking nightmare. He's really, really bad news.


----------



## Soundhound

He, Cruz, Scott Walker, the whole crowd are really really really dangerous ideologues. They are the American Taliban.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> That toilethead would be a freaking nightmare. He's really, really bad news.


I really really agree with you. 12 months ago, if someone had told me that in the upcoming election I would think Hillary's opponent would be as dangerous as Hillary, I would've laughed in their face. But the laugh would've been on me.


----------



## NYC Composer

You're not a Paul Ryan fan, Michael? I'm sort of surprised by that.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> You're not a Paul Ryan fan, Michael? I'm sort of surprised by that.


No, I'm not, but I don't dislike him as much as I dislike Trump and Hillary. I didn't realize until just now that Nick was talking about Ryan. thought he was still talking about Trump, because of "POS Aryan": I thought it was a slam against Trump's fascist tendencies.


----------



## NYC Composer

That's what I figured.


----------



## Soundhound

The thing is, Hillary Clinton's not dangerous. She is, however, extraordinarily accomplished. The only way to think she's dangerous is to regularly digest and believe insane radical right wing propaganda.

This is a good article for people who drink that poison, and for the Bernie holdouts as well:

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/08/01/analysis/whats-written-scars-hillary-clinton


----------



## chimuelo

Hundreds of millions prove she is accomplished.
Hopefully the Foundation has reached out to Assange with a pardon negotiation.
That would be another accomplishment.
He could work for them by black mailing Panama Paper participants and show them how safe parking thier cash there would be.
No interest payments in exchange for no IRS Audits......


----------



## Baron Greuner

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The scenario that frightens me just as much as Txxxx winning (which is looking increasingly unlikely): either Txxxx drops out because he doesn't want to be a loser - note that he's already talking about a rigged election to save face - or the Rfux get rid of him.
> 
> POS Apall Aryan becomes the candidate. People believe the lie that he's a policy wonk rather than the total fraud and lunatic asshole he is.
> 
> That toilethead would be a freaking nightmare. He's really, really bad news.



I talk about Cameron, Osborne, Carney, May and Merkel like this and I get fucking vilified by Larry!!!!! WTF?


----------



## NYC Composer

Ummm....what??


----------



## Soundhound

For the record, Paul Ryan is indeed a lunatic asshole. More asshole than lunatic, but I split hairs... He's an outright fraud, and has commandeered Rand Paul's position as the Eddie Haskel of modern American politics.


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah...
Who does he think he is saying Bills had to be passed first, so we could see what was in them.


----------



## woodsdenis

So Draft Dodging Don's missus is probably an illegal immigrant, send her home I say.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> I talk about Cameron, Osborne, Carney, May and Merkel like this and I get fucking vilified by Larry!!!!! WTF?


Ummm...what???


----------



## Baron Greuner

I find this woman strangely hot.


----------



## NYC Composer

Vilify??? Me, vilify you, my Anglo Saxon/Teutonic/Austrian idol??

(Btw Nick and I don't speak, cause he thinks I'm a pussified nanny, and I think he's a loud zealot. Even though we agree on 90% of core issues, unlike you and Moi.)


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> I find this woman strangely hot.



I find her a raving lunatic like her buddy Sean Hannity.


----------



## chimuelo

I like her cause she goes on Bill Maher in a Sea of frothing Liberal guests like Aflec who she makes a fool out of.
Her and Maher are most entertaining when they engage.

Her and Maher are good friends too and why I like him.
Nobody busts Family Value Conservatives better than him.

Shows like Hannity are pathetic.
He is a rude host too.
When it was Hannity and Colmes years ago it was better.

Claims he started in Construction.
Maybe, but a small ball peen hammer and a Wal-Mart Phillips.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Apall Aryan wants huge tax breaks at the top, nasty cuts to the needy, and then he just sort of fills in arbitrary numbers based on nothing to claim it'll all pay for itself. And the media believe he's a policy expert!

But the truly crazy thing is that he wants to eliminate the entire federal government other than the military by 2050.

A really dangerous guy.

But of course Txxxx is off his gourd, and he appeals to the worst in people. Just awful.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Michael, I don't like Txxxx's fascist tendencies either.

It really is frightening that he is getting national security briefings. Can you believe he asked three times why we can't use nuclear weapons?!


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh look Michael, Nick is speaking to you again.


----------



## chimuelo

Nick Batzdorf said:


> But of course Txxxx is off his gourd, and he appeals to the worst in people. Just awful.



Yes, so it seems.
But Liberals and the Independents who voted in Liberal majorities represented the best in us, only to have Eric Holder and Obama practice divisive tactics for political gain, which has brought the worst out of us.....

Since lying Liberals didn't succeed, perhaps the exact opposite will bring out the best of us....


----------



## NYC Composer

Appall Aryan. Hil"LiAR"y Clinton. Nonsense for people who speak to the lowest common denominator and the lowest intellects.


----------



## NYC Composer

I have a lot of fun watching Republican apologists saying "see, now Trump has pivoted!". Today, it's the Ryan/McCain endorsement. Still, one of his main talking points during his endorsement was about the loud rude baby who interrupted his speech. It's the gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Michael, I don't like Txxxx's fascist tendencies either.
> 
> It really is frightening that he is getting national security briefings. Can you believe he asked three times why we can't use nuclear weapons?!


He's a nut. In a rut. He's a nut in a rut, amen.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

You guys will get a good chuckle at this. I can't even fathom a guess how many times Trump supporters have called me a liberal. i just laugh when they do that. They also call me the term they made up: "cuckservative", which I think is the stupidest sounding insult I have ever heard.


----------



## NYC Composer

There is no end to how creative people can get with dumb stuff like that.


----------



## Soundhound

That is scary Michael. I watched that video compiled by the Times of people at Trump rallies. Yeesh! Here's an interesting piece about some of what is driving these people. Aside from racism and xenophobia of course:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...wath-public/7HFzyTzJAio6vn0QGGcTdO/story.html


----------



## NYC Composer

Is anybody else a little weirded out by the fact that Ivanka is acting in the role of wife?


----------



## JonFairhurst

Donald Trump is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

-The Manchurian Composer, 1962


----------



## chimuelo

Things could be worse than the 24/7 parade of platitudes and lies.
You could be in Brazil.
Australian Athletic compound was suddenly told by "authorities" to temporarily leave for safety reasons.
When they returned all of thier belongings were stolen.

The Olympic Torch Ceremony was only allowed if they used a Tiki Torch to repel insects.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I haven't watched an Olympic games since they were amateur whenever that was. Who the fuck in their right mind wants to sit there watching fucking laboratories run round a fucking race track? Haven't you people got anything better to do?
American lady knifed to death in London a couple pf days ago in the street round Russell square sadly. One commentator here said how wonderful he/she thought the police in this country are to use a taser on the ""Norwegian national Somalian illegal immigrant"" and how in America they would have shot him to death.

Errrrr lady if I had my way it would have been a luger to the back of the head and then two through the pump just to make sure. Fucking vermin.


----------



## chimuelo

English.....

Speaking of English Baron,
What does a Mexican and a Cue Ball have in common...?


.....
.....
.....
.....
....


The harder you hit them the better english you get.


Ankyu


----------



## NYC Composer

Blessedly, my son was not wounded when he recently served in Afghanistan. I've been trying to imagine how I'd feel about DJT's statement "I always wanted a Purple Heart- this is easier" if my son has been injured. 

Did he even know what a Purple Heart was when he made that statement?? What a maroon.


----------



## Soundhound

Bill Murray says: every Olympic event should include one average person competing for reference.


----------



## chimuelo

I assume Trump would be average competitor and this supreme Liberal being as the superior athlete....?


----------



## Soundhound

As opposed to: 

Pretty much gave Chevy Chase his whole career.


----------



## chimuelo

Before my time but at least they both shook it off quickly.
I'm getting a kick out of the father of the Orlando killer doing interviews.
He got a great seat right behind Hillary. 
Poor gal can't get a break.
Claims he was invited by the DNC.
Makes you wonder about vetting processes by our competent Feds.

He says his son was wrong.
Only God can punish homosexuals.

The most insane election I've seen.
We're 2 scandals away from a Gary Johnson win.

What about the bald x CIA guy trying to get on the ticket.

50 NeoCons signed a letter to support Hillary.

I want to see suit cases of Swiss Francs stacked up behind Trump and the Chinese leader shaking hands.


----------



## NYC Composer

It's The Year of Trump. Hillary can't fuck up fast enough to catch up. Trying to draw a straight line equivalency is amusing but futile.


----------



## chimuelo

Assange and Gucifer II think differently.
The choices are clear though.
A dysfunctional corrupt incompetent political system vrs. a mad man who admires dictators.
Our choices get worse every election.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'll take the Dysfunctional System for $100, Alex.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

I like Evan McMullin. & not just because he called Trump "Inhuman" (though I did like that). Will he win or do enough damage to keep Donnie or Hillary from getting 270? Only by a miracle of divine intervention, but I believe in and have experienced 2 legit miracles, so I'm not counting anything out.


----------



## Soundhound

Ok now the GOP has to dump Trump. I don't think the party has a shred of decency in it, but now that Trump has essentially issued a dog whistle call for assassinating Hillary Clinton, the Republicans have no choice.


----------



## NYC Composer

Sure they do. Watch.


----------



## Soundhound

They're going to prove they are as sick and depraved as I think they are? That'll be something to see. I may have to play hooky this week and watch...


----------



## NYC Composer

They're going to run him 'til the finish and in their heart of hearts, they're going to pray he doesn't win. It's like a chemistry experiment where you mix random stuff just to see if it'll blow up.


----------



## chimuelo

Look at the bright side guys.
The criminal element in our fake 2 party system has been exposed.
Young people are really pissed off about this regulated/rigged economy, fake Liberal Universities, Wall Street buying the GOP and DNC, a whole host of cronyism and criminals prospering from poverty.
Liberals and Conservatives will not make it to 2020.

Those are the old folks choices.

American youth has seen the light and thankfully will be smarter than we were.
25 years of bull shit and the Sheep kept quiet for they would get free stuff, or so they thought.
Now everyone is in debt for a shitty education, or wounded for serving, lied to just like the Liberals did in VietNam.

It's 1968 all over again.

An honest Government in 2020 will replace these lying fossils.
Wouldn't mind seeing their money used for redistribution rather than middle class working families stuck paying for thier unintended consequences.


----------



## passsacaglia

...always look on the bright...side of life...*whistleing* ... 
+1 master Chim! That's what I'm thinking.


----------



## Soundhound

25 years Chim? wouldn't it be 35, or are those Reagan roots showing through?


----------



## chimuelo

I was hoping to avoid your tortured past.
But Liberal trickle down is worse than Reagan's.
Liberals have spent trillions and created larger more dangerous plantations. But Buffet has 72 Billion now for acquisitions.
Show me the difference...
Reagan freed millions of white European slaves.
Liberals have created millions of white slaves.
They have done really well serving us.

8 years and trillions spent creating poverty.

Some of us get by fine though.
Got tired of mommy and daddy long time ago.


----------



## chimuelo

Why don't they have Aircraft Carriers named after criminals?
The SS Nixon, or the SS Clinton.?

How about the SS Greenspan?
Or SS Blumenthal...
SS Trump or SS Soros.....


----------



## Soundhound

Well, Nancy (or Mommy, that's what Ronny called her after all), your fearless leader sold you hook line and sinker on the shining city on the hill. Once you realized it was a bridge in Brooklyn, your passion for Bonzo proactively projects blame on to others. It's really quite impressive. Though Dick Cheney actually runs the war Halliburton war machine and needlessly embroiled the country in endless war purely for monetary gain, and Chevron names oil tankers after Condi Rice (there's your criminal ship naming) it's still the fault of liberals. 

Your allegiance and sworn oath to the right wing are an example and beacon in the night for us all.


----------



## chimuelo

Theres a special 8 by 8 cell awaiting for you after Trump wins, during the re education process.
Every wall ceiling and floor will be a painting of Reagan.
You will be deprived of sleep during your transformation.
24/7 loops of Reagans speeches.
Even your food will be shaped after his face....


----------



## Soundhound

Nice! Looking forward! You should know that yours is next door, fully padded of course, with a floor to ceiling collages featuring all Clintons, Gary Hart, Dick Gephardt, Stephanopoulos, Nancy Pelosi, JFK, LBJ, FDR, MLK, Malcolm and Fiorello Laguardia.


----------



## chimuelo

I won't be needing re education.
Hispanic and white racist Catholics did it right the first time.
They taught us to rely on ourselves rather than Liberal Theology where hatchings are told they're not good enough and require wealthy white Liberal worshipping, with 6 figure debt to have a job.
Went into the real world as a teen and raising a 2nd family.
But that was during a period where jobs were created.
These days excuses are created for 20 trillion.
Confusing times unless you skip the Liberal incubation period....


----------



## Soundhound

Far right wing ideology is difficult, if not impossible, to see through. I understand. As they say, it's not just a river in Egypt. Three most powerful forces in the universe: gravity, entropy and denial.


----------



## chimuelo

Denial is easy.
Liberals and Conservatives don't exist unless you miss mommy or daddy.

Middle class will continue to thrive regardless of what these two Crime Families impose upon us.
We are invincible.
But must admit Liberals stole 12 million from our ranks through victimhood and pagan idolatry.
We'll get them back since even the Hillary and her Wall Steet Bankers can't keep folks from wanting to succeed.
When I get old I will become a Liberal victim.
Always wanted free stuff, but only after the proper discrete audio hardware and RV are acquired.


----------



## Soundhound

Free stuff like food stamps, highways, roads, police, fire departments, education... when will these people learn to fend for themselves?


----------



## chimuelo

I think a large choir should be made so victims could show thier gratitude to the multi millionaire Liberals by singing Air Supply's "I Can't Live Without You."


----------



## Soundhound

Medley. Start with Air Supply choir, then up a 1/2 step to Team America's "America, Fuck Yeah!" sung by Sylvester Stallone, Bruce Willis and Melania Trump. Kind of a Tony Orlando and Dawn for the New Right Reich.


----------



## chimuelo

Robert Reich. Great Labor Secretary under Monica Lewinsky's X Boyfriends administration.....


----------



## NYC Composer

If Donald would just shoot Hiplary to shut her up, we could all move on to the Trump Empire, er, Trump Presidency.

Trump Jun Ill


----------



## chimuelo

Donald J. Erdogan


----------



## chimuelo

Putin Plaza


----------



## Soundhound

I am a Robert Reich fan! Cool, smart guy. 

Did Trump say anything endangering the world yet today? I'm hours behind...


----------



## chimuelo

A guy climbing Trump Tower was just snatched from the side of the building by white racists of the NYPD.
One officer could have been Hispanic.
But cops that usually roll up thier sleeves are white, and Hispanics and Blacks tend to keep thier sleeves down to avoid persecution from being cursed with dark skin.
I learned this in my minority/victim identification class for 6500 dollars by the 500,000 @ year professor at UCLA.


----------



## JonFairhurst

$500K is chump change. Should have become a CEO or hedge fund manager.

BTW, the average entry salary for an assistant professor is $66,574 - after earning a PhD. Suckers.

http://work.chron.com/average-pay-entry-level-college-professor-5192.html


----------



## chimuelo

That's probably entry level pay for Conservative racist professors.

Wealth inequality warrior Elizabeth Warren was making 6 times that amount for a single class she wasn't required to show up for when she became a Senator.

Hedge Fund Manager son n law of Hillary might have blown his chance at crony capitalism.
Seems he lost untold millions of investors money.

Not a problem.
There's always the Foundation to steal from.
Travel expenses were over 8 million last year for the Queen and King.

Costs lots of money trying to save the children, kittens and puppies.
Many journalists are complaining after giving 75 large that they got a shitty mosquito net made by Haitian slaves.


----------



## Soundhound

Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and Delay et. al. meanwhile, are retired investors living on a small pension. (Name the movie reference for 10 bonus points.)


----------



## chimuelo

No way.
He got a bonus from the NRA for shooting an investor while hunting.
Our elites make huge spikes for gun sales.
Obama and gun toting Liberals have sold hillions in ammo and over 100,000,000 weapons.

These cats are gdtting rich serving us commoners.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy I'm telling you, there's an opening at Fox. They're studying the market research as we speak and are going to go both aisles full bore soon as O'Reilly retires and starts molesting nurses at the assisted living center. Apply to: Mad Prophet Denouncing The Hypocrisies of Our Times needed. (Second movie reference identification yields additional bonus points)


----------



## chimuelo

But I was wrong about the Trump supporter being racively micro aggressed upon.
It was a racist black black cop who thought white lives mattered who grabbed the white racist who thought his white life didnt matter as he scaled Trump Towers.

Fox already turned me down after researching my twitter account...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...fwVh38E-0oYrs1FjA&sig2=jLcHCJZcaKyMOdZ2u7D3RQ


----------



## NYC Composer

Not that I mind particularly, but to me all of this back and forth left vs right stupid conservatives and clueless liberals stuff is just a bunch of talk about closely held political beliefs. There is a much bigger issue at stake, because it's come down to two. One of these two people will soon be the most powerful human on the planet. In this Year of Trump, it might be best to concentrate on which one will be chosen and what will happen as a result.

So- Hillary Clinton-corrupt, arrogant, self enriching, politically careless? My take is probably all of the above.

Donald Trump-uninformed, naive, bigoted, careless, corrupt, extremely dangerous both nationally and internationally? My take is all of the above.

I'm not happy with Hillary at all, but as I've said many times in this thread, the choice is obvious to me. I think the system needs deep reforms, but I don't have any desire to roll the dice with a dangerous, preening narcissistic uncontrolled clown.


----------



## Soundhound

I can't believe Fox turned you down with those qualifications. So unlike them. I'd resubmit.




chimuelo said:


> But I was wrong about the Trump supporter being racively micro aggressed upon.
> It was a racist black black cop who thought white lives mattered who grabbed the white racist who thought his white life didnt matter as he scaled Trump Towers.
> 
> Fox already turned me down after researching my twitter account...
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...fwVh38E-0oYrs1FjA&sig2=jLcHCJZcaKyMOdZ2u7D3RQ


----------



## Soundhound

I concur. I keep saying it, if you think it was disastrous when Bush stole the election from Gore, if Trump gets in he's gonna make W look like FDR.




NYC Composer said:


> Not that I mind particularly, but to me all of this back and forth left vs right stupid conservatives and clueless liberals stuff is just a bunch of talk about closely held political beliefs. There is a much bigger issue at stake, because it's come down to two. One of these two people will soon be the most powerful human on the planet. In this Year of Trump, it might be best to concentrate on which one will be chosen and what will happen as a result.
> 
> So- Hillary Clinton-corrupt, arrogant, self enriching, politically careless? My take is probably all of the above.
> 
> Donald Trump-uninformed, naive, bigoted, careless, corrupt, extremely dangerous both nationally and internationally? My take is all of the above.
> 
> I'm not happy with Hillary at all, but as I've said many times in this thread, the choice is obvious to me. I think the system needs deep reforms, but I don't have any desire to roll the dice with a dangerous, preening narcissistic uncontrolled clown.


----------



## chimuelo

I dont want Liberal Federal Agencies coming after me so I vote for Hillary too...


----------



## chimuelo

Wow.
The 2 Swiss gals on Volleyball Duo are beautiful.
Issa Forrer is stacked and Verge the blond is so Victoria Secret ish.
Great game with USA right now.


----------



## NYC Composer

You don't want to lose your children in a nuclear fireball, Jimmy. Soros/Clinton Foundation/liberal re-educators blahblahblah. You could not pull the Trump lever and it has nothing to do with anything but the fact that know he's a dangerous maroon.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Maroon! Maroon!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......


----------



## chimuelo

Trump cannot win Larry, dont sweat it.
But Hillary must be in serious pain.
Imagine having to give so many speeches without getting 500,000 dollars.
She must have a team of doctors with injections standing by.


----------



## Soundhound

You just don't like her because she's a chick with power Jimmy. If she looked like a Swiss volleyball player might you reconsider?


----------



## chimuelo

She doesn't seem very strong to me.

Got her ass kicked out of Libya by the JV Team.

Iran sent her Ambassador and ALL US personnel running out of Yemen.

Wasn't even present for comment when Russia invaded Ukraine and took Crimea.

Got her ass handed to her in Syria.
They use Chemicals weapons whenever they want now.

Russian bombers roll barrel bombs on hospitals killing thousands of civilians.

You got to read Turkish and Israeli newspapers to get the truth.

Iranian newspapers seem to tell an entirely different story than lying Liberals say too.

Liberals even brag about duping Americans on Health Care, Iranian secret talks. A bunch of liars and con artists is all I have seen.

Strong people win in endeavors without having to lie and cheat.

Other than that she'll be a fabulous Commandress in Chief.


----------



## NYC Composer

More rhetorical bullshit regardless of how true or not. There are two choices. Choose, vote, then complain all you want.


----------



## chimuelo

I already chose.
It wont be the 2 we are told we must choose between.

Dont care for liars which is why I voted Gore.
Voted for Obama. He lied so 2nd time I chose none of the above.
Its a Nevada option.

Never voted here before but Stein Johnson, they havent lied to me yet.
And they seem content with serving and being satisfied with the salary.

Had my share of lying Liberals and NeoCons.

Besides it doesnt matter who wins domestically speaking.
I dont rely on broken promises for my success.
They keep taking more money so I have to work harder and longer.

Such is life in the real world.

Feel sorry for all those darlings in mommys basement who send emails everyday for work and have no replies.
Thank God daddy co signed for that 100k degree in Gender Awareness.

But all will be forgiven by the wealthy Liberals I hear.
Yeah,....If you like your doctor you can keep him...period.


----------



## Soundhound

That is a completely unsubstantiated, Breibart-concepted list, Jimmy. What's astoundingly, amazingly, incredibly, unbelievably, wildly unexplainably incomprehensible to me is how your save all your invective for Clinton and Obama. Not a word about the people who caused the gigantic mess in the middle east. For money. Where's the outrage for the war criminals? Just not there. You're pissed at the people trying to clean up the mess. Why are you not pissed at the people who caused the problem? Do you and Cheney go hunting together or something? Not something I'd recommend...

edit: was referring to post #2107


----------



## NYC Composer

In that case you're not part of the actual election that's taking place. Maybe you will be in 2020. Or 2024. For now, you're an onlooker and commenter.


----------



## chimuelo

NOT voting is foolish.
Voting in protest is as important as picking the same left right song and dance.

Breitbart must have affilliates in Turkey, Iran and Israel. Thier papers are where I go fir infirmation.
Sets up in my browser, translations seem accurate.

Maybe the NYTimes will tell you Erdogan shook his fists at Putin this week.
I will probably read how Liberal incompetence forced another allie to side with Putin in an Ankara newspaper.

Should I believe the NYTimes that said WMDs in Iraq or a Turkish paper that says Erdogan wants to be on a winning team.?

Ill take the Turkish Times over your Mexican billionaire owned NYTimes and not think twice. Lying Liberals get huge salaries. Look at Wasserberg Shultz, Huma Weiner. Hillary.... Who can blame them, when you lie and make millions why waste time telling the truth.?

Trump is too predictable and dangerous.
Clinton lies and serves herself.

Gary Johnson left a surplus.....off with his head.
Jill Stein....not enough information yet, but she seems to have Tulsis approval.
I admire real Liberals.
Have little patience for wealthy lying fake Liberals.


----------



## Soundhound

Every time someone wants to slam the NY Times, they cite Judith Miller. Not most times, not a lot, not a shitload, every single time. The fact that she was subsequently fired for exactly that and wound up on Fox News where she belongs never seems to come up. Wonder why that would be? The thing is, there are plenty of other things to bring up about the Times, but Ann Coulter doesn't list them on her site, so....


----------



## NYC Composer

Or you could write in a protest vote for Mickey Mouse, as that would have the same effect.

On the other hand, the honorable thing to do is to vote- so go for it.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Or you could write in a protest vote for Mickey Mouse, as that would have the same effect.


No one told me he's running! Now I'm excited.
But seriously, addressing the "binary vote" narrative of this election, I'll just say that meaningful change never comes when people just continue to support the status quo.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> No one told me he's running! Now I'm excited.
> But seriously, addressing the "binary vote" narrative of this election, I'll just say that meaningful change never comes when people just continue to support the status quo.


It is more important to me to protect the nation and the world from a petulant and dangerous incompetent than to cast away my vote in what will surely end up to be a quixotic political statement, no matter how well intentioned it might be.

Your mileage may vary, of course.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> It is more important to me to protect the nation and the world from a petulant and dangerous incompetent than to cast away my vote in what will surely end up to be a quixotic political statement, no matter how well intentioned it might be.
> 
> Your mileage may vary, of course.


That's a good point to address what I typed ("continue to support the status quo"), and that's how I felt when I held my nose to vote McCain and Romney.

However, I mis-typed. What I should have typed was:

"Meaningful change never comes when people continue to support the dangerous crazy tyrant on one hand or the dangerous lying criminal on the other".


----------



## chimuelo

Such excellent Conservative and Liberal media tells Americans that Trump recruits for ISIS, and Hillary and Obama created ISIS.
Nothing beats good old teamwork.

This is the residue of bad design.
When media outlets are created so they can benefit from negative campaign seasons, which is now 24/7, as is fundraising, this is why news now is formed around the fake left right choices we are instructed to select.

As long as whores are allowed to sell themselves in Washington this corrupt self serving system won't represent the voters.

It's sole purpose along with fake media outlets posing as investigative journalists, is to sell legislation to investors.

We cannot say it's a failed system.
Everyone owns mansions huge stock portfolios, investors like Buffet have record cash flow, 72,000,000,000.
That's impressive.

A complete success story.

Can't wait to see which dictators the investors want removed in 2017.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael, I'm bollixed that you think she's as big as existential threat as he is.


----------



## Soundhound

Conspiracy theories are fun because there's no way to disprove them. The harder it is to come up with real evidence, the more genius the evil geniuses are! They're so smart! They're so evil! 

Roger Ailes realized early on—was he the only one who understood the lesson of Network (the movie)?—that news could be entertainment, and used it to dumb down and poison the minds of a generation of Republicans. 

John Oliver provides additional warning:


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael, I'm bollixed that you think she's as big as existential threat as he is.


I really don't know who's a bigger threat. But I do know that neither are acceptable.


----------



## Soundhound

It's pretty amazing how right wing media has made people think Hillary Clinton is a monster. They've been making up utter, baseless nonsense about her for 25 years. Roger Ailes is a genius.


----------



## NYC Composer

"Why can't we use nuclear weapons?"

Let me clear it up for you Michael-he's the bigger existential threat.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy??? Did you delete your first post in this thread??!!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> "Why can't we use nuclear weapons?"
> 
> Let me clear it up for you Michael-he's the bigger existential treat.





NYC Composer said:


> "Why can't we use nuclear weapons?"
> 
> Let me clear it up for you Michael-he's the bigger existential threat.


Do you think I didn't see the "Hillary server" hearings? Do you believe that it was all an innocent mistake on Hillary's part? Hillary may not have intended for Russia or other enemies to hack her system, but she knew damn well that she wasn't supposed to set up her own private server for emails. She intended to bypass security measures, no doubt about that. She may well have cost that Iranian scientist his life.
And you want her to have the security clearance needed by POTUS?
There is no acceptable choice among those two, and that's why I'm not voting either one. Oh, did I say there were 2 main candidates? There's only one. Trump shows no sign of even wanting to win. It is as I said, he's a Democrat plant who entered the race with the sole intention of handing the race to Hillary. And that makes it real easy for her; she doesn't even have to go to the efforts she went to sabotage Sanders' campaign.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump with nukes is jive.
He enjoys portraying the out of control gangster, like Sean Connery with Wesley Snipes in the movie. It's a great way to shake up things.

The fear of a Trump win goes far beyond that. He brings uncertainty to the markets, which is fragile.

EU suffers from decades of low growth and like Japan are in negative interest rates. The world is parking thier money in American equities.
This is why Trump cannot beat the Masters of markets.

We've gone from 43 lobbyists per politician to 196 in 2012.
Pay to play seems self serving but the markets are the only reason we have a slow but stable economy.
Trump would bring so much uncertainty back that every hedge fund manager has donated millions from thier accounts to Hillary.

So Sheep might believe Hillary will reign in Wall Street and Hedge funds but it's the only reason the world parks it's money there.

Bernie was removed from the equation for the same reason.


----------



## NYC Composer

Can't buy the Democratic plant conspiracy theory, but if you think her corrupt email server is the equivalent of giving DJT the nuclear access codes, see you on the other side if he's elected.

Oh wait- you're going, I'm not. Well-bye then!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Can't buy the Democratic plant conspiracy theory



How else do you explain his non-efforts?



NYC Composer said:


> but if you think her corrupt email server is the equivalent of giving DJT the nuclear access codes, see you on the other side if he's elected.
> 
> Oh wait- you're going, I'm not. Well-bye then!



The email server wasn't corrupt. Corrupt is the person who went out of her way to bypass security measures and in so doing opened up classified info to the Russians and possibly even cost that Iranian scientist his life.

And again, I said I don't know which is worse. I said in fact that I wasn't voting for either. It is not a "binary" choice.


----------



## NYC Composer

I explain his non efforts by the idea that in his tiny brain, his being voted into the Republican nomination has informed him that he's godlike and it is his destiny to take the Presidency.

Insecure information will plague all politicians, public figures and ordinary people. Yes, she should not have had a private server, but even if she had, no one's data is secure. That ship has sailed.

I very much disagree about the binary choice, unless you're perfectly willing to live under a Trump presidency. Clinton is the only viable choice.


----------



## Soundhound

the Hillary conspiracy theories are pretty spectacular. they preach onl to the choir of course, only work on people who have been taught to think she is a criminal by roger aisles for a generation. it's the 2016 equivalent of the tea party racist hate and hysteria that surfaced after a black man was elected president. this time it's mysogyny, same thing, different bogeyman.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I explain his non efforts by the idea that in his tiny brain, his being voted into the Republican nomination has informed him that he's godlike and it is his destiny to take the Presidency.



So he thinks he doesn't have to campaign in battleground states and he can continue to bash Republicans left and right, and that will win the election for him? Nah.



NYC Composer said:


> Insecure information will plague all politicians, public figures and ordinary people.



Maybe so, but not all politicians do so intentionally. She intentionally bought her own domain so that she could bypass security.



NYC Composer said:


> Yes, she should not have had a private server, but even if she had, no one's data is secure. That ship has sailed.



So, let's say you work for the state department, and you set up your own email and conduct business with classified email, They catch you. You gonna say "Oh well, no one's data is secure"? If you do, will your boss say "oh well, that ship has sailed", let you off scot-free and continue to give you security clearance at that high level? Heck no. Hillary got very special treatment because she's a Cinton.



NYC Composer said:


> I very much disagree about the binary choice, unless you're perfectly willing to live under a Trump presidency. Clinton is the only viable choice.


My will makes no difference. I'm not willing to live under either presidency, and that's why I'm not voting either one.


----------



## Soundhound

Roger Ailes is so, so, so very happy. Bush, Cheney, Rove etc. delete tens of thousands of emails. Not a word from anybody. The right wing media then creates a Clinton email conspiracy completely out of thin air and it finds root with the Fox News audience.

The right wing invades Iraq for no reason, the country supports it in a fit of mass hysteria. Obama and Clinton spend a decade trying to clean up the mess, and it's their fault.

Donald Trump has no political beliefs. None. He is entirely amoral as well. He saw the anger caused by the crushing of the middle class and realized he could use it to gain a following to feed his insatiable id. Trying to make sense of anything he does politically or in policy positions is a fools game. He is the inevitable Frankenstein caused by the lies and hate mongering of the right wing media.

They say it could never happen here, but take a look the frightening, racist, homophobic, anti-semitic neanderthals that attend Trump rallies and the visceral, powerful hate for Hillary Clinton. It has indeed happened here. The saving grace is that it really looks like there's no chance in hell that Trump can pull it off. Admittedly because it seems like he's terrified of actually becoming president and is shooting himself in the foot daily.

Amazing year. Will be very glad when it's over.


----------



## NYC Composer

I think that last bit is true of all of us.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael- Trump is suggesting there might be civil war if he loses. He muses about using nuclear weapons. There is no Hillary equivalent.

His sort of bully boy racism and nativism are very dangerous. His statements about veterans, his mocking of the handicapped, his musing about the use of nuclear capabilities, his return to Reagan trickle down economics-all of these I abhor and disagree with-but logically and for the moment conceding she's deeply corrupt, I cannot see how you match up the danger he presents with her arrogance and corruption.

Edit-this exchange is specious, isn't it Michael? She's pro/choice-you could never vote got even if she was squeaky clean, right?


----------



## ghostnote

chimuelo said:


> EU suffers from decades of low growth and like Japan are in negative interest rates. The world is parking thier money in American equities.



I'm really fond of americans looking down on europeans. I even heard the term euro trash recently on american TV... sigh...

Let's get this straight:


> With all this in mind, *is Europe outperforming the United States?* The EU has long been seen as the best peace creation project of all time, with no wars at its core over the last 70 years. *Over recent decades it has also proven to be an enviably efficient wealth creation machine* – and not just for those at the top of the population, but for the entire society, including 100 million new citizens over the past decade. This means that if you are lucky enough to belong to the top 1% or 10% in the U.S., you are no doubt quite well off. In Europe, life at the top is also not bad, but if you happen to be, like the majority of the population, in the bottom 90%, or one of 450 million people, in Europe you are far better off.
> 
> *Not only is Europe producing an admirable and competitive growth model*, it is, by design and conviction, deploying the wealth generated in economic solidarity with its broader population, not just for the top 1%. That is Europe’s greatest economic accomplishment, its greatest competitive advantage and the key to its outperformance.


Source: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/10/is-europe-outperforming-the-us/



> Comparing the economic performance of the European Union and the USA does not lead one to conclude that America has the more dynamic economy, or that it has performed better in the past or will do so in future. The most important feature of the comparison is neither the growth nor the unemployment record of the US and the EU. It is, rather, that *US growth, unlike that in the EU, is funded by a dangerously high mountain of foreign debt.* US external indebtedness, in turn, is driven by the US house-price bubble, enabling US consumers to spend more than they earn. * Ironically, it is the EU which, together with China and Japan, continues to lend the money to the US* which keeps their households spending and their economy growing.
> The truth is that neither side ‘wins’ in this beauty contest. Europe merely does less badly than the USA in some crucial respects. Yes, while it is true that the core Eurozone countries could perform far better, Germany, France and Italy have quite different problems – in comparison both to the US and to each other – which require quite different solutions. *Anybody who claims that the US provides a model which the EU should copy needs to consider the basic economic facts of the case.*


Source: http://www.federalist-debate.org/index.php/current/item/300-europe-vs-usa-whose-economy-wins

Europe is bigger than the US:
http://www.businessinsider.de/charts-eu-economy-is-bigger-than-the-us-2015-6?r=US&IR=T

Check the Global Growth Tracker:
http://www.worldeconomics.com/papers/Global%20Growth%20Monitor_7c66ffca-ff86-4e4c-979d-7c5d7a22ef21.paper (http://www.worldeconomics.com/papers/Global Growth Monitor_7c66ffca-ff86-4e4c-979d-7c5d7a22ef21.paper)



To make this bit more ontopic:
I neither like any of the cadidates, but If I'd be an US citizen and would have to choose it would be Hillary. I believe Trump is a threat if he will be elected, but I'm also sure that he will be briefed extensively and tamed by various interest groups like the industrial military complex and high tiers from world economy if he will be the next president. It would still be a catastrophy, but anybody who believes that somebody who can get elected every 4 years gets automatically access to nuclear missles... then... c'mon...

What really bugs me is: We live in incredibly interesting times where people seem to forget the values which have been established after the second world war. When I was a kid I believed something like Auschwitz was so devious and primitive that something like that wouldn't happen ever again... and then Srebrenica and Ruanda happened. Putin, Trump, Erdogan, Farage they all are just symptoms which indicate that there's something wrong with society and that we are heading into wrong directions. And we all have to remember why we need dialogue and diplomacy and why something like the EU is incredibly important and incredibly precious.

Empathy was always bound to intelect, more an more people nowadays seem to forget this.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm amused that you feel slighted by Americans looking down on Europeans. I've been on this forum for 9 or so years, and the general cultural arrogance of Europeans towards Amxericans has been breathtaking during that time.

Geopolitically, the size of Europe doesn't matter that much. The military strength does. There will always be dominant powers in the world. Russia? China? U.S.? Choose.


----------



## ghostnote

I don't know if looking down is the right term. Ignorance would describe it better. I get the image (here and mostly on US mainstream media) that americans seem to just cherry pick the downsides. Grexit was a big topic: "The EU will break apart", they said. "Obamacare, health insurance for everyone? Like in Europe? Socialism!" And free college like in Europe? it works! we pay more taxes to realize that:



And Russia? China? U.S.? I don't like to quote cheezy superhero movies, but with power comes responsibility. Russia and Turkey are dropping economical growth for geopolitical power and nationalism. And something similar is happening in Britain. I find this trend very disturbing.


----------



## chimuelo

I am reading as we speak about Erdogan playing his rather valuable hand against Germany and Russia.
After seeing how easily the USA caved into blackmail who can blame him.
But he has been asking for billions, so who ever pays him the most wins.
We can pretend to see the world as we wish or the world as it is.
Personally I see nationalism, even racism as a healthy form of competition.
Works great in Olypmic competition as well as innovation and trade.

Most Americans prefer trade over war, which is why we wanted to free Eastern Europeans and have the west united in raising 500,000,000 Chinese from poverty.

My comment was simply inferring to reality that excess capital being parked in the USA is the safe pay when ecomonies are struggling and banks fail stress tests.

Euro trash? Never heard that before.
Ive made many friends for life in Europe, even went to visit never met relatives then brought them back to the Wild West.
Americans love Europeans, actually any foreigners, as we were once foreigners.
New York is where they hate evetybody.
They should put up a sign saying Welcome to New York, now get the fuck out of here.

And I concur America has a major problem with productivity levels.
But those out in the work force, roughly 58% have high productivity, but that is not noticable when almost half of the counrty is not involved.

The world is a better place when the western economies are booming.
My guess is EU and USA ruling class will analyze thier disastrous regulations and conclude they should be used during a boom rather than a recession.

I always hear about American and European "economic experts" being so smart.

Personally I think they suck big bags of dicks.

Wasnt trying to offend my brethren, but productivity has nothing to do with where your elites and other globalists park excess capital.

Cheerz


----------



## NYC Composer

I guess you know a lot more about NYC than I do Jimmy because you've visited, so why bother contradicting your sage wisdom re the town I was born in and have now lived in for close to 40 years. Later, if I have time, I'll tell you all about Vegas. After all, I've spent weeks there.

Trump voters are Americans, aren't they? Let's do a poll of them asking "Do you love Europeans"? 

How about a poll asking them "do you love European Muslims"? That would be instructive.

Then another poll- "do you love white Europeans?"


----------



## chimuelo

Your humor is gone.
Its been replaced by Liberal/Conservative media sheepfights, civil war, nuclear holocaust, etc.

I realize the wealthy white Liberals are the Master Race.
Theyve achieved in 50 years what hundreds of years of slavery couldnt.
I respect such awesome power and control.
This is why I will vote for the DNC winner.
Would have helped though having a token hispanic or black instead of Jim Webb and rapper Martin OMalley and the all white DNC ticket.

That why ittttttsssssss........
Springtime for Soros and Hillary.....
Bad time for racists in the GOP..
Shes taking life at a faster pace...
Look out here comes the Master Race.


----------



## NYC Composer

My humor's always good. You're just so inscrutable and demented that attempting to follow you through the maze you call your brain is sheer folly

(Though I do enjoy the journey in some perverse way.)

Money has always been able to buy class in America, but I have to wonder if even his fellow elites are starting to view DJT with horror, if only for exposing what classless snobs they always were.


----------



## chimuelo

Larry go search YTube for the hilarious video of Chinese leaders, Mullahs of Iran and Putin all seated watching Trumps speeches while be served food and drink.
You could use a good laugh.
Trump says Obama created ISIS.....
They all start slapping thier legs laughing....
They then hear Crooked Hillary was the co founder...
They break up laughing and high 5 ing again..

You really arent taking the 2 pre selected candidates serious are you?

Its entertainment.
A show.
Go to a WWE wrestling match, the same believers go to those.

They actually get mad at folks like us laughing..

But cmon.
The announcers call the moves out before the wrestlers commit.
Having a phone with real time audio as you watch the match is awesome and funny.

Srgt. Slaughter climbs the turnbuckle above the seemingly helpless injured oppononent then does his famous atomic drop, followed by the front rolling dick ear jab....

It aint real bro, honest.


----------



## Soundhound

It's just too easy an explanation, Jimmy. And it's kind of lazy thinking. The truth is always more complicated.


----------



## chimuelo

Thats an optional discipline of philosophy.
I always liked this one.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...cw9AacyimCweCXV_A&sig2=X1ul571rNesEvxPHpaUqZQ


----------



## NYC Composer

Difference is, Jimmy, I'm old enough to remember Barry Goldwater. I also remember George Wallace and David Duke, and if George was alive he'd still have a constituency. Duke does. Those are some pretty scary dudes.

Politics as entertainment? Sure. Sells a lot of media. Politics as ONLY entertainment? Nah.

Tell me, did you think Obama would beat Hillary in 2008? Was he pre-selected? How about Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter, complete dark horses- pre- selected? Nixon was a brilliant politician but one of the least likeable men in the country, the establishment hated him. Pre-selected?

You have to have some historical perspective to judge the present. I'm not saying there isn't a corrupt system, but remember, this iteration of it tried to nominate Jeb Bush. Hillary had been presumptive for years and Bernie came within a breath of catching her. If the final pre-selected candidates were in place, it would be Bush v Clinton, and THAT is why it's the Year of Trump.


----------



## chimuelo

I remember George Wallace.
I was only in 6th grade or something when I learned of him the hard way.
I grew up in real America, whites, asians, hispanics, blacks, indians in the same middle class neighborhood.

I was a bass player my guitarist was black. We were rehearsing in his basement then came up to eat.
I always helped out adults as I was raised that way. Heard the door go thump, thought it was the paper boy so went to fetch it for the mrs.

Instead some guy asked if he could speak to the adult in the house so I got the mrs.
Then heard her saying get the hell out of here and the door slammed.
She came after me like the plague.
Then I never answered the door again.

The guy was a delegate campaigning door to door for Wallace.
He figured I was white so the adult would be white.
Poor bastard.

But yeah those folks are all dead with the exception of the sect of trump supporters or the section 8 slum lords that give Liberals millions for zoning laws.

Fake racism can be moved forward thpugh.
Politicians love it.
The last 8byears prooves that.

They cant control their Sheep if they are united.
They prosper from control division and confuse the word fear, mostly from violent crime, with racism.

In a few more years this black lives matter thing will wither away like the ows or tea party hitler youth movement.

I believe these groups are created by our leaders.
Just look at the white hpuse visitor logs and the DOJ bussing in organizers.

Black lives matter was an example ofvthe DOJ using travin martin. A hispanic guy, but lets call him white, then call Obama black, even though he is mixed and raised white, private schools all the white trimmings.

So you see I understand the need for victims and the benefits of a divided society for the elites to use for political gain.


----------



## NYC Composer

The racism my parents worked against in '62 wasn't fake. This was a country of apartheid. Like I said, historical perspective.

Of course we live in a post racial world now that Obama was elected, which makes it even more curious that the black guy who owns the studio that I rent a room in, a multimillionaire, can't get a cab.


----------



## chimuelo

Weve lived in a post racial world since I was in high school.
Obama Holder Sharpton Soros are the reason my black friends fear the cops.
They will never vote for Trump but are quite familiar with black gangs crimes killings and overdoses ruining black neighborhodds and being profiled because theyre black.
The fact Obama and the boys wanted to address it was welcome.
But now its another unintended consequence of Liberal policy gone south.

They so wanted a black white issue they overplayedctheir hands.
Now its out of control.
So bad I dont even see Obama for comment on Milwaukee.
That was a black gamgsta shot by a black cop.
Unless the media is lying.
The silence from the Liberals is damning.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ah well. You continue to talk past me, so I'll continue to talk past you. 

Obama/Soros/Holder=why my studio owner can't get a cab, and why I am constantly reading racist rants on the net. Why my black friends fear angry white youths in racially segregated neighborhoods in upstate NY. 

Yep. Post racial.

Some things have certainly improved in my years of observation, however the vast majority of wealth is still in the hands of white rulers of this country, same as it ever was, and they're not generally down with the brothas.

The main color that matters in this country is, of course, green-but rulers tend to bond over their fucked up racial views.

How many people of color are invited to the Koch's yearly power summit, do you think ? How many martinis drunk decrying the n.....s and the Mexicans?


----------



## Soundhound

We live in a post racial world. For f*ck's sake, gimme a break. Have you seen what's going on at Trump rallies? Have you tried hailing a cab as a black man in Queens? I grew up with kids of all colors in NYC and thought it would get better and better as life moved on. Wrong. The right wing has been pushing back against it for decades. They'll lose eventually, one hopes. But the death knell of any backward looking, regressive sector of a society is always vicious and loud.


----------



## chimuelo

Yuze guys read newspapers and watch too much Fox News....
Im watching Ozzy right now, I can actually understand what he says for once.
Watched 50 years of star trek before that.

When youre done frothing and trembling after watching Fox News post back on what angered you most.

Most successful cable ratings in history.
Thanks to millions of Liberals who just want to be mad about something all the time....


----------



## NYC Composer

Thanks to a serial sexual abuser of females.


----------



## chimuelo

Oh dude I read up on the scandals.
Andrea Tantaros was a hottie with a book that showed her bound up and gagged.
Fox wouldnt help sponsor her book even after being a regular cackling hen, so she is the one who started the whole thing.
Then the other beauty queen kicked in and bye bye.
Fat old guy.
What a pathetic guy.
He could have easily contacted Liberal family values man Elliot Spitzer and got some fine ass hookers.

Trump supporters shot the Imam in NYC...
Trump supporters fired shots at cops in Milwaukee to blame all of the BLM rioters....

Just giving a preview of the NYTimes tomoorw.

Call me Karnac

Or but google Andrea Tantaros book cover.
Im not an S @ M guy but Ailez sure hired some hotties.

Hope they dont start doing the rachel maddow candie crowley types......eeewwww


----------



## NYC Composer

Elliot Spitzer violated the Mann Act, and as bullshit as the Mann Act is, former prosecutor Spitzer should have known better. I despise him.

However, I must have missed something- was he involved in the Ailes scandal? Are we really to the level of I say Ailes,you say Spitzer? How far back are we going with this crap? It's just dumb.


----------



## Soundhound

Fox News is successful because it's watched by liberals? You're into the peyote again. That's the thing Jimmy, when you make shit up all day long, it's easy to forget what you made up and what you read somewhere...



chimuelo said:


> Thanks to millions of Liberals who just want to be mad about something all the time....


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, btw-so Tantaros used a sexy image to sell herself, so I guess she invited workplace abuse. "Blow me or I won't hire you." Now there's a man with balls-under his chin.


----------



## chimuelo

Well he looks like Alfred Hitchcock.
You cant get no trim with that big old belly getting in the way.
He tried playing his only card.

But you gotta hand it him for hiring some pretty hot babes.
Do yuze Liberal guys watch it for the babes or a way to become infuriated with an overdose of right wing rhetoric?


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Well he looks like Alfred Hitchcock.
> You cant get no trim with that big old belly getting in the way.
> He tried playing his only card.
> 
> But you gotta hand it him for hiring some pretty hot babes.
> Do yuze Liberal guys watch it for the babes or a way to become infuriated with an overdose of right wing rhetoric?



I gotta hand it to him for essentially being a rapist? Nah, you hand it to him. Hey, jerk him off! Seems like he's needy.

Personally, if I needed "trim", I'd either pull it by my own lights or buy it. That's because I'm a man, not a POS.


----------



## chimuelo

Soundhound said:


> Fox News is successful because it's watched by liberals? You're into the peyote again. That's the thing Jimmy, when you make shit up all day long, it's easy to forget what you made up and what you read somewhere...



Pew Research Center using Neilsen ratings made that one up.
I am a meger copy paste parrot.
According to them out of thier millions of viewers 3 times the amount of conservatives as liberals stare hypnotically at the programs.

Its gotta be the babes right?
Why would any indictrinated person subject themselves to a Hannity show? 
Or a drug induced Rush Limbaugh?

Almost half of Americans believe in the Liberal Conservative paradigm and believe its real.
Thats roughly 4 times the amount of peoplecthat think pro wrestling is real.
But young infants believing in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy are very high.
They grow out that by kindegarten though, so theres hope for the believers of left wings and right wings still, so thats encouraging.


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> Elliot Spitzer violated the Mann Act, and as bullshit as the Mann Act is, former prosecutor Spitzer should have known better. I despise him.
> 
> However, I must have missed something- was he involved in the Ailes scandal? Are we really to the level of I say Ailes,you say Spitzer? How far back are we going with this crap? It's just dumb.



I was thinking New Yorker style.
Anthony Weiner, Spitzer, devout believers must have felt betrayed.
Hell Hillarys double salary chief advisor must have felt betrayed, but stood by her man during his attempt to steal money from New Yorkers in the race for mayor where a wealthy white billionaire was selected to fight the war on wealth inewuality, poverty, drugs and those racist black asian white hispanic cops.


----------



## chimuelo

Guess I figured since hes a wealthy white New Yorker he would know Spitzer, who hung with hookers and prostitutes while promoting family values etc.

And like Hillary and Huma, his wife did photo ops, standing by her man, etc.
Oh and not upset SHound the dirtbag Governor using tax payers money to go bang his soulmate in Argentina is also a POS.
Sanford was his name.

Odd that wealthy Liberal women stand by thier man, while the betrayed Conservative wife showed honesty by taking the kids and publicly telling the lying bastard to go f... himself.
A Carly Fiorina of sorts...

Talk to yuze guys soon when pictures of Trump handing Putin Swiss Francs goes viral....


----------



## chimuelo

Hey maybe Trump was supposed to drop out and let the Conservative successful Governor take over.
Wall Street just crucified Trump.

Like Maya in Zero Dark Thirty its him against the world.

Just watched his latest rally and noticed how the hispanics and blacks sitting behind (paul mannafort tricks) Trump looked like hostages.

I was expecting to hear him say Ill send more blacks to jail than Hillary has, then blacks start cheering, etc.


----------



## NYC Composer

Wall Street (Journal) just told him to behave better. I'm hoping he ignores them.


----------



## chimuelo

You know he will.
The Trump year was either brilliantly devised by Bill and DJT, or Trump wanted to have some fun and didnt expect the massive anti establishment ground swell.
So he wants to win or lose on only his terms.
Which does qualify him as an out of control gangster.

The only chance he has to possibly have a shot is if he rattles Clinton like Romney did when he made Obama look like a whipped schoolboy in the debates.
He failed to follow up.
Trump will kick you while your down, he is no Romney type.
Or he does well in the debates and Assange resolves the Seth Rich murder, then reveals the 33,000 yoga/wedding emails.

Even then Trump is incredible dangerous and American Independents can settle for Hillary the NeoCon.
She only pretends to be Liberal.

But good news.
Tulsi Gabbard won her primary with 85%.
She represents real Liberals.
Not the Schumer Kerry Reid Pelosi billionaire multi millionaire career globalists.
They only win from decades of pork buying local support.
Same with McConnell of Kentucky.

Fancy Farms recently finished up.
Republicans ans Democrats show up and take heat from the audience over the backdrop of a utopian farming community.
Its hillarious as they shred each other peacefully and the audience is involved.
Allison Grimes didnt show up this time.
Her failing of answering a reporters question about voting for Obama had caused her support to disappate.
She did keep those big checks from Hollywood and Wall Street.
The ad of her shooting Daddys Shotgun was bad enough, but the Clintons showed up to support her and after that it was a landslide for the turtle faced McConnell.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Wall Street (Journal) just told him to behave better. I'm hoping he ignores them.


He will ignore them. He's been told to behave more than once already. The man does not want to win, I'm telling you.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> You know he will.
> The Trump year was either brilliantly devised by Bill and DJT, or Trump wanted to have some fun and didnt expect the massive anti establishment ground swell.
> So he wants to win or lose on only his terms.
> Which does qualify him as an out of control gangster.


True!


----------



## JonFairhurst

Why is Trump not seriously running to win?
1) This is all a marketing ploy to increase his brand awareness. He wants attention, not responsibility. (This is my assumption.)
2) He's too stupid/arrogant/etc to win. (Plausible. But he's smart enough to identify a bunch of rubes, appeal to their base instincts, and speak to them in the simplest of sentences. I still think it's #1.)
3) He's a DNC plant. (Wait... I thought he was the guy who couldn't be bought.)
4) Trump wants a White Nationalist Awakening. (I don't buy this either. I don't think he minds it, but he's just appealing to them to make them loyal to his brand.) https://bluenationreview.com/trump-is-seeking-a-white-nationalist-awakening-not-the-white-house/

Yep. This is the craziest marketing scheme ever. And it's playing with fire, not to mention dicking with American democracy at it's core. Trump identifies the biggest group of rubes with cash: white people with little education. He identifies their blind loyalty to idiots like Sarah Palin. He sees that the media amplifies stories about racism and nationalism - and even if the media spin is negative, his rubes eat it up. He plays the system.

To his surprise, he wins the nomination. Does he change his strategy to win the general election? Hell no! His strategy is working better than he had ever imagined. Exposure and brand loyalty without responsibility. If he goes up in the polls, expect him to grab third rails with both fists - all the while aligning himself with his gullible loyalists.

The only white awakening Trump really wants is for them to wake up and order his products and services. Just wait for all of the infomercials for crap labeled with the Trump name in 2017 and beyond.


----------



## NYC Composer

Your last may be true, Jon, but the rabble he is rousing isn't giving the appearance of going down meekly. They're not going to be satisfied buying lousy Trump steaks and worshipping Their Leader. They've become energized, more dangerous and increasingly well armed.


----------



## chimuelo

They said the same about Bernie supporters too.

Seems the majority was promised free stuff from Hillary so they'll be OK for 4 years.

Unless they drive into a new Sharia enclave packed with ISIS Sympathizers.

Hopefully refugees aren't vetted by the TSA GSA or some other useless agency made up of relatives of politicians.


----------



## NYC Composer

Really? Well armed militias of ex military libs? Right.


----------



## chimuelo

Sure. Liberals are armed to the teeth.
Wealthy whites have armed security and thier minorities have lots of guns.
They seem to hit wrong targets consistently, but they are armed none the less.
I was gigging in STL and there was a March honoring the kid who was gunned down by white racist Police.
The protesters blocked traffic and a driver decided to push through.
The video taken has been buried by new community organizers and rioters in Milwaukee, but the protesters started firing at the car fleeing, oncoming motorists had bullets hitting thier cars.
So even the peaceful rioters were ready for action.
But couldn't even hit a car from 30 feet away, so Liberals are not good shots....


----------



## JonFairhurst

Yeah, so my point (1) above might be the truth but point (4) might be the result.

In any case, we need to vote against this guy in numbers that deliver an overwhelming defeat.


----------



## Soundhound

The real nightmare here is that religious right wing maniacs like Ted Cruz will seem reasonable to the media after Trump is stomped on in the general election. Wolf Blitzer will breathe a sigh of relief as he discusses the pluses and minuses of teaching evolution and intelligent design in the same classroom.


----------



## chimuelo

I'll finally enjoy MSNBC for an hour or two.
Matthews might get another tingle up his chubby thigh.
Rachel will kiss and hug her Klansmen guests in hooded garb.

Maybe Wolf Blitzer can return to Joepardy and just pray for a score of 0 instead of the minus 2000 he got one night.
I loved Jeopardy back 10 years ago.
It was my way of having family dinners.
I even cooked to spare me and Junior from lying to Mom about how GRAY88888 her cooking was.
Poor gal could barely boil water but what a georgeous young thang she was.....

Unite the peoples by voting for wealthy white Liberals.
Its our only hope of ending wealth inequality....


----------



## NYC Composer

Wealthy white liberal versus wealthier scumbag. Death match!


----------



## chimuelo

Still cant believe yuze guys dont appreciate his swift destruction of the establishment GOP.
I do hope Hillary gives free stuff to the suffering, and lets Trump negotiate TPP so it works for us.
If Obama can give Hillary the State Department/Foundation gig, an olive branch to a crazed out of control gangster would be cool.


----------



## Soundhound

Completely unintelligible, and loved every syllable. As always!




chimuelo said:


> I'll finally enjoy MSNBC for an hour or two.
> Matthews might get another tingle up his chubby thigh.
> Rachel will kiss and hug her Klansmen guests in hooded garb.
> 
> Maybe Wolf Blitzer can return to Joepardy and just pray for a score of 0 instead of the minus 2000 he got one night.
> I loved Jeopardy back 10 years ago.
> It was my way of having family dinners.
> I even cooked to spare me and Junior from lying to Mom about how GRAY88888 her cooking was.
> Poor gal could barely boil water but what a georgeous young thang she was.....
> 
> Unite the peoples by voting for wealthy white Liberals.
> Its our only hope of ending wealth inequality....


----------



## chimuelo

All You Need Is Love...

John Lennon,...smart man.
Shot in the back, very sad.


----------



## NYC Composer

I appreciate the exposure you mentioned in your very first post, Jimmy, but Trump is playing with fire and doesn't give a fuck.

Why did you delete that one??


----------



## chimuelo

I wanted to correct some spelling since the NSA is checking us out.
Unfortunately my rigs are all using old OS and disconnected LAN.
Still trying to get better with miniature tablets.
If there were musical notes on them Id hit them better...
Hit delete by mistake.

Ill write Hillary to find the deletion on the Federal Cloud when she gets hers back.


----------



## NYC Composer

Dayum. I liked that one.


----------



## woodsdenis

So trumps campaign manager worked for the Ukranain government and Trumps daughter is now on holiday with Putins girlfriend. America what does it take for you to wake up.


----------



## chimuelo

Its part of the plan.
They are reading over the deleted emails.
Once Trump loses, Sheep will cheer thinking they were saved from WW3.
Trump Putin and Neo Nazi leaders of Eastern Europe will unite the new 4th Reich.
Hillary is allowed to lead since she is being black mailed.
.Fiorina Palin and Marine La Penne have plans for freeing all muslim women around the world, and Hillary will get blamed for that too.
In the end the white race will reign supreme again.


----------



## NYC Composer

:::clackclack::: yep. I'll feel like I was saved from WW3, brought to you by the kind of rich guy you despise, Jimmy-had it all handed to him.

At least Hillary started middle class and hustled her way into the elite. C'mon. Give her a little credit.


----------



## chimuelo

Hey anyone making 28,000,000 a year for public service prooves trickle down economics works.


----------



## NYC Composer

!0 million in 2015-and that was for both of them! How's a couple sposed to live on that??

Btw-you realize there's no friggin' way he's releasing his taxes. The sheep would grind him into dust with their hooves when they saw his bullshit. He probably has a net income of 0.


----------



## chimuelo

This is sick.
Our world needs a new direction.
I hope our kids can save us before we lose all sanity.


----------



## woodsdenis

Best one yet


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> 3) He's a DNC plant.



Early on I fantasized that he was a Republican plant, intended to make the rest of those creeps seem sane - a variation of what Soundhound is saying.

And Larry is right: this won't go away when he's defeated in the election. The rabble has been roused.

chim, after ten years I really do get that anyone who bothers reading and thinking about actual policy is a sheep who refuses to see what's so obvious to you - that every politician in either party is a corrupt pig.

But I'm curious what you would rather Hillary propose than the following. I'm not the least bit interested in hearing how corrupt you think she is or whatever the fuck it is, I want to know what you disagree with if you do.

http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-full-transcript-economic-speech-489602


----------



## chimuelo

I agree with bringing Shop Class and jobs related programs back into schools. This was stupid to eliminate for some silly diversity jive.
But that means she will take money from the Union which disagrees privately since they have created our education system and the rules by purchasing Liberals.
End Citizens United, sure, but only if the tax payers money that is taken from them for "education" then laundered and returned to Liberals is taken out of political races.

I agree with her infrastructure program since Government incentives must be planted first or nobody will risk capital. The last 1.2 TR dollar stimulus had 800 billion for infrastructure.
Liberals mispent that money promised and Trade Unions lost 4-10 dollars an hour to keep workers in place.
Members are upset as those funds came from thier envelope. Which means thier take home pay.

Lets be honest about minimum wage.
It raises the prevailing wage set in 1931 called the Davis Bacon Act.
It should be up to the States. Nevada pays more and has no taxes. The highest earners and Corporations pay public pensions and community re investment. Youd think real Liberals would use this model but when Corporations purchase politicians to avoid said costs, its then up to the lowest and middle class earners to cover those programs.
Nevada has school choice, vouchers.
All paid for by Corporations.
You never hear about that, but easy to research.

I like her plan about pay to go. Thats a LIUNA program we paid Liberals to implement but instead we get exempted from the ACA.

So you see I can agree with her plan but a lack of enforcement allows billionaires to park themselves offshore or buy loopholes in our unfair tax policy Liberals have controlled from 2004 through 2012.

She says she will be accountable.
Do you believe that too?

Her plan sounds great, but GOP Congress and Senate will comprimise and want concessions for thier investors.
So you see as long as bribery and lobbyists get first bite at the Apple this is all academic.

Under Obama and the super majority 43 lobbyists per politician is now at an all time 196. It doubled under the Super Majority then fuckhead GOP liars increased it because we see how the 2 parties we are led to believe are total opposites, are the exact same and can be predicted to serve thier special interests instead of the voters.

As I write this Obama with Liberal and Conservative leadership push TPP. Even after we see how NAFTA screwed American workers and is the most broken abused un enforced trade deal in history.
Hillary was for it until Trump and Bernie mentioned it.
4 years ago I complained here about it, referred to it as Super NAFTA.
Why? Because I read what policy these back room dealers negotiate, dont read what some staffer wrote for them. Deep State policy moves forward quickly and silently because investors win, we lose, and media should be forced to cover it.
When 300 members of Congress fly to Japan and Indonesia, you know its big news in Asia.
Not a single paper wrote about that, only Bill Moyer alerted me.

But loved her policy, an excellent fantasy I wish would be true.
But until all cash is removed from the whore house, these policies benefit only the investors.
This is why these trade deals are done in secret and we can read a FOIA request years after its passed.

I would love Hillary over Trump on policy issues.
I disagree with his tax cuts for the wealthy as I always do.
Once you have 500 million you can make another 500 million, you dont need 50 billion to do that.
Watren Buffet and the Koch brothers are great for the economy, but get villified because they buy politicians to get what they want.
Buffet makes money and creates wealth, Koch makes investors rich and builds 100s of hospitals.
But Deep State sluts villify each of them just because they dont get any of that cash. 2 way street.

Pray that Hillary wins and the GOP gets back to negotiating and considers us.
But its a prayer.

As long as special interests and laundered public Union money guides policy we are not a consideration.

So nice discussing policy but I dont see billionaires and multi millions that serve them doing anything other than making our childrens future difficult with wasted billions and trillions of debt.

Sheep believe they have a voice.
Only until the election is over.
Then the reality of paying back investors while fundraising commences.
After 1vyearvof that ask themselves how can I stay elected. Tell voters you will give them this and that.
Then win again, go fundraising.

Does this sound familiar?


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm going to let Nick answer first, since he asked the question and you gave him a comprehensive and serious answer.

(...assuming he addresses it fairly soon.)


----------



## chimuelo

Nick is low energy. No stamina.
Writing the question made him go take a nap.
We'll see him tomorrow.

Also consider the terrible judgement she has shown us, the lies she continues to tell, then ask yourself will she suddenly show better judgement, stop taking money from foriegn governments, there by ending citizens united, and most importantly stop lying?
Id love to see that but just cant see that happening.

DNC rigged the race for the wrong person.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

chimuelo said:


> Sheep believe they have a voice.



In fact, it is well known that the opinion of the average american has a near-zero, statistically not relevant impact on public policy making. As shown in the below link, the US Democracy is a Oligarchy instead.



> ... policy making is dominated by powerful business organsiations and a small number of affluent Americans.



Gilens & Page, Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens (2014)

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites...testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf


----------



## G.R. Baumann

See this in the above context, MIT Citizens Rising "Anti-Corruption" Symposium, Martin Gilens explores political inequality in the United States. Discussing the results of his recent study, Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens.


----------



## chimuelo

No wonder Putin and Trump golf together so much.
Oligarchs United.


----------



## chimuelo

Hey Baron Brexit worked!!!
Britain is 2nd in Gold 3rd in medals.

They threw off the shackles of Liberalism and cheap heroin/open borders, and look what happened.


----------



## Baron Greuner

FFS Jimmy I'd rather watch paint dry. Who gives a shit about these people and their fucking medals? Oh look, he shaved 2 nanno seconds off a previously shaven nanno second! WTF? Hamsters!!!!

I'm looking at a car at the moment. If there were medals for looking at cars, I would be ahead of the USA.

Anyway, surely this all to do with the fact that most countries have lost their main athletes through being banned, while global laboratories unilaterally try to work out new undiscovered drugs that at the same time, can't actually be discovered when in use?

The Mother has told ministers they need to get on with getting out of the EU. This came as a shock and surprise. Most people here think that The Mother wanted to stay in for as long as possible, although this could be a Sister type of ploy.


----------



## chimuelo

Crabby Old Goat....


----------



## Baron Greuner

I might watch that bloke run in the ladies 800 metres purely from a voyeuristic stance.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, no Nick, so.

Jimmy, we agree on some basic points. Nothing will ever change until we get the obvious money out of politics, ergo:

1. Reverse Citzens United, a ruling that a friend of mine who was then a state Attorney General and is a Conservative believes was among the dumbest ever opined upon.

2. Institute public campaign financing at all levels of government.

3. Place a lobbying moratorium on those leaving public office. I suggest 5 years.

There's more, but those are the basis for my platform when I become Emperor.

I also agree that a liberal administration has failed to address cyclical urban poverty and crime, though the only solutions, even as stopgaps, are pretty Draconian. The endless murders in Chicago are disgusting. My son disagrees, but I'd park the National Guard there for a good bit and have them trained as support for law enforcement and anti-gang activities. Martial law is a scary business, but so is having people mowed down in the streets. Meanwhile, community policing in most urban areas must improve, and that's hard to do federally.

The stimulus was a mess, money flying in every direction and a lot of it diverted into pockets where it didn't belong, but it was basically written in the back of a napkin and approved bipartisan-ly. You may not remember the panic-I sure do. I am still waiting for an accounting process to tell us who stole what. Might be waiting awhile.

We also agree that politicians promise stuff they won't or can't deliver, but that's what politicians do.

Buffet and The Kochs don't belong in the same sentence. Buffet is a shrewd, cutthroat capitalist who takes no prisoners and prefers to buy entire companies rather than take a stake in them. He's giving most of his money away over his lifetime, and while there are plenty of boondoggles in charitable foundations, tremendous good is done as well. I can give you chapter and verse if you're ever interested.

Charles and David Koch are the leaders of more than just industry-they and a group of the richest people in America have joined forces to change the thought process at the college level, end any and all air and water regulations so as to freely pull fossil fuels from the ground and pollute without interference, set up dark money pools going to organizations with deceptive names that are nothing but funneling orgs to buy local and state elections, as they have recently given up on the executive branch. Look to North Carolina as a prime example. Again, I can give you chapter and verse if you're interested.

We'll always disagree on some fundamental issues, but I've learned a lot from this back and forth. Your first statement that America is about to learn about the corrupt system of government they live under-was absolutely true, on both sides of the aisle. Yet, I can't give up on America-say what you will, it ain't boring. From 8 years of GW Bush to 8 years of Obama is some roller coaster shit.


----------



## chimuelo

Activating the Guard is the right thing to do.
Deploying them only when Liberals start breaking into pharmacies, liquor stores and dollar stores for bbq chips and grape soda.
From hanging in the hood I know what the brothas like.

The reason the Hot Dog Chili and Cheese machines are always empty is they buy the larger 1.29 bag of chips, then pack it with chili and Cheese. Chase it with a 40.


----------



## chimuelo

2 of your ideas I googled.
Seems O'Reilly and Trump agree.

Common sense is basically Independent free thinking.
Liberalism & Conservatism is for the indoctrinated.

Great name for a band.
Still like the Well Hungarians better.


----------



## NYC Composer

I have always been a free thinker with an eye towards humanism. People before money, and hopefully ways to make the two coincide


----------



## chimuelo

So then you'll vote for Trump....
Cool.


----------



## NYC Composer

Just like you will, Sparky.


----------



## chimuelo

God (Feds) and Santa (NSA) can judge my loyalty anytime they want.
None of the above and Gary Johnson.

Mostly because of his stance on Marijuana and how the courts and law enforcement can do serious work and save Millions leaving these violent weed smoking criminal alone.

Just think of the innovation possibilites.

On rare occasions I take a 1 hitter of death weed, which my Guitarist smokes like cigarettes.
I really enjoy playing and think, Wow, I sound fucking great......

Most of the time I am my harshest critic, constantly trying new hardware out and reprogramming FX levels using my stage monitor instead of IEMs.

Wierd, you'd think the stage monitor wouldn't be as accurate but the FX are always heavier on the SSv3, so I monitor everything there.

Here's that latest Dual 15 Band EQ with feedback supression.
Vocalists hear exactly what comes out of the Mains and we run in stereo which btw is a myth, it sounds much better than Mono.

This is a little pricey just for monitors but my bitches must be happy.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Want to improve our cities? Decriminalize humanity.


----------



## NYC Composer

create infrastructure jobs. Pay people to train as well as work. 

Still have to control the streets, though. Nothing happens overnight.


----------



## chimuelo

Turn rioting Liberals into Cops.
We could create millions of jobs immediately.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm laughing on the inside.


----------



## chimuelo

They need good riot organizers.
Target dilapidated buildings to burn down.
It would create jobs and leave businesses open.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yes Jimmy, rioting is bad. Jeez.


----------



## JonFairhurst

In the Pacific NW the liberals sit and get arrested. The anarchists break and burn things and shut down highways. If they vote at all, the anarchists' guy is Trump. #irony


----------



## chimuelo

I knew there was something I liked about about Community Organizers and Riot Squads...


----------



## NYC Composer

I knew there was something I liked about Trump Brown Shirt rallies.


----------



## chimuelo

Did chu know ze Fuhrer vas a Tallifick dansah?


----------



## NYC Composer

I just watched Chris Matthews's interview with Kellyanne Conway. Fascinating-he let her talk. He never lets anyone talk, so obviously a deal was made in advance that he would. 

Media acting a lot like guvmint.


----------



## chimuelo

Why would she risk a stellar respected career?
Many Democrats sought her talents since she was first to tell Senate and Congressional Dems they were losing. She predicted Obamas 2nd term and all interim elections too.
Even the Governors races she called.
Such an honest level headed lady has to be telling Trump he cant win?
Her reputation is at stake.

Her husband is a very successful litigator who seems to also have stellar credentials.
The only time the Clintons had to pay one of Bills girls to stop a lawsuit.
Settled out for 800k.
Lot of cash considering Clintons were broke then.

You know she has inside dirt on the Clintons.
Trump simply paid extra for that information.

Too big to jail.


----------



## NYC Composer

Sharks gotta swim or die. She's a shark.

She's already made a difference in a few days.


----------



## chimuelo

She-it....
Trump might act "normal" for 3 days eh?

Odd that Mexicos President wants to speak with DJT.
Wonder if they'll take about the Drug trade.
After all tons of narcotics flow across the border now.
I actually think Trump speaks in superlatives other world leaders understand.
NATO countries suddenly agreed to pay the 2% GDP.
China condemned N.Korea first time ever.
To media parrotts the words were used to give DJT free air time compared to the hundreds of millions others wasted.
The wall means criminals and drug flow is no longer tolerated who hear the message.
Personally I dont think he'll win, but his lambasting was heard around the world.
The idea of Japan and S.Korea getting nukes was brilliant.
Our leaders are frozen by political correctness, nervous investors.
Somebody like Trump helps them as he can say what normally wouldnt be dreamed of.

Im glad Bernie exposed lying Liberals and Trump bashed every nation race and religion on Earth.
All of them had it coming.


----------



## NYC Composer

Your last sentence-true dat.


----------



## chimuelo

Decided to watch the campaign gal and must say she sure is cute.
Also soft spoken and pretty sure she made Trump give a half assed apology for insulting the entire world.

Also saw the black sheriff from Milwaukee. He definitely is a future politician. 
He is so blunt I can't believe I've never heard of him.

Trump only needs a photo op with the President of Mexico, and a shot of him on a prayer rug at a Mosque and he'll have a chance.

Maybe have Senator Warren and him holding hands for a stroll through Washington Park.
Then Trump in a water cage with Rosie O'Donnell throwing balls.

That should do it.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm glad you find the idea of a Trump win amusing. I think you're whistling in the dark. The neo-cons will get hold of him and we'll have some more military adventures in profitable places. Enjoy!


----------



## chimuelo

First of all I am happy Bernie & Trump entered.
Secondly NeoCons are already backing Clinton.
Why else would a guy like Obama let Hillary and the boys take Libyan Oil. 
NeoCons love anti war invasions by Liberals. The human rights angle works better for them.

Theyre globalists, her domestic promises have no effect on Multinational Corporations or thier loopholes. 
Just listen to Bill Cristal and the Chamber of Commerce folks, Goldman Sachs, GE.
They build Coal Fire plants in "Green" Europe as we speak in record numbers, not to mention the rest of the world. All of this while discussions of a carbon tax.
Again, follow the money.
Start with Murray and Peabody Coal.
Who owns the stock.

We have such an infrastructure in place that barges to the Massive ships in the Gulf make it a cheap transport, barge trains coast downstream using little fuel.

They can talk all the bull shit podium nonsense they want. Massive barge trains on the Tennessee, Cumberland, Ohio and Mississippi River say differently.
Chinese companies shave mountain tops, no need for miners.
Thats the story in case you think we are somehow saving Earth.
Gladly share a picture tomorrow of backed up barge traffic when I go to Illinois.
Miles of barges sit at the mouth of the Ohio waiting thier turn.
Its always about the money even when they say it isnt.
But if you think Neo Cons are GOP only youre missing the Deep State concept.

If one were to look at the board of directors of any multinational you see they are representing old money. Asset managers from the Fed, Royal Families, Gulf Emirates, etc.
Trumps nationalism is a direct threat to markets banks kings queens billionaires....
Once Obama and the Pooper majority took the stimulus NeoCons owned Liberals from that moment on.
Its well documented once you step outside of the filtered news.
Remember the twins from Good Morning Vietnam?
Sheep who do not research get the prescribed messages.
Its actually a chore to keep up with our "complex borderless society."


----------



## NYC Composer

Neither Al Gore nor Hillary would have taken us into Iraq. The neocons may be behind her- but she's not one.


----------



## chimuelo

You're absolutely right. They just cast the votes to make it happen.
Libya must have been those Green Energy Liberals wanting Light Crude.
Have you read the UBS emails yet?
Interesting discussion on Oil Tanker Insurance, another Swiss specialty.
Seems some unspoken sanctions kept Tankers from getting permission to leave Libyan ports prior to the Liberal invasion, and before the actual force of arms occurred insurance agreements were already secured so Tankers could be taken over by somebody unknown, driven out into the Ocean, where light crude was dangerously transferred at night to different tankers. 
Nobody other than Haliburton has the ability to pull that off.
NeoCons do not like pipelines.
They want everyone using shipping which is another Haliburton specialty.

Why does Russia and Iran so desperately want Syria?
Pipelines.....so sanctions cannot affect Iran or Russia.
Why are Russian bombers flying out of Iran.
What will flow through Georgia once Syria is lost?
Iranian Oil to India then China.

You can't possibly believe all of these human rights invasions are to spread democracy?

Iraq was violating human rights.
That message didn't work which brought us WMD.
Human rights excuses for Syria didn't work.
Red lines for WMDs.
Obama stood his ground that time thankfully.
Hillary or Trump even Russia will use ISIS as an excuse to get in and stay.
Big gamble for Putin but Crimea, Syria and pipelines with cheap Oil negates the need for the Sunni monopoly, even OPEC.
This is the real conflict.
Not the children or global warming.


----------



## Soundhound

It'll be interesting to see what happens over the next 18 months. Will Jimmy be proven right and the U.S. will be deeper than ever in the middle east quagmire?
Looking forward to finding out. Let's revisit this at the end of 2017.

Kellyanne Conway has helped direct and promote much of the far right, her rogues' gallery includes but is not limited to: Newt Gingrich, Marsha Blackburn, Steve King, Todd Akin, Ted Cruz and Mike Pence, a veritable who's who of the morally bankrupt, utterly incompetent right, from Neocons to the new American Taliban. But you admire and respect her. Seriously?


----------



## NYC Composer

Iraq was violating human rights so Bush wanted to go in as a compassionate conservative? Mmm.

Children at risk are always an issue if they're yours.


----------



## chimuelo

True dat.
But you know the game.
Innocent children being displayed as victims was North Vietnams strongest weapon.
Even though the VC would rape and kill children like Ghengus Khan. 

Todd Akin is a POS and embarrsment to a proud family.
My father ran business for the Union at Akins family Steel Company. Old man Akin knew his spoiled children would never stand behind the WW2 and Korean War Vets that worked there.
So set up a seperate Pension alongside of the Union Pensions. Impressed my dad so much he became Personel Director/VP.
My father died 6 years ago and where the Union pensions fell short the private ones kicked in for workers wives until they pass away.
Toddy boy tried to rake it in but couldnt.
His father has been gone for decades, most of the workers are also dead.
But my mother gets 3 large a month still because of a great man.

Nobody was happier to see that jerk toss out an easy victory with his insane remark on rape.
In that election the last remaining Liberals were being removed for their lies and betrayal of the middle class.
McCaskill might be partisan in DC to please her billionaire bosses but Missourians are willing to let her stay.
Sad thing about a Clinton win is that way too many NeoCons will be in close proximity again.

We are screwed until hispanics and millenials out number the easily manipulated black and white Sheep.
2020 cant come soon enough.


----------



## chimuelo

Compassipnate Conservative is code for NeoCons to lean left.
Moderate Liberal is code for NeoCons to lean right.

Bush and Bono made fake Liberals angry.
They wanted the creds.
Romney implemented State paid health care before fake Liberals, so they wanted a chance to use his success in a national level, and they couldnt even get that right.
Incompetence on multiple levels over and over again.
No wonder NeoCons hate an outsider like Trump.
My God if he succeeded these globalists would need to regroup in their chinese mansions or dubai uae.


----------



## NYC Composer

Trump and Neo-cons are a marriage made in heaven. You think Hillary is corrupt (and you're right) wait til you watch the Neo-cons and Trump have a snakefuck in the Middle East. 

If you think he's gonna win, buy defense stocks, industrial cyclicals and service sector stocks (like Halliburton) hand over fist.


----------



## chimuelo

Im more of a Martin-Marietta Raytheon kind of guy.
Halliburton reports only because of SEC rules.
Nobody can buy that stock.
You could but only if a king queen or world dubai allow it.

You should read old man Rockefellers Biograpghy.
I think media saturation has misguided you to a left right position when in fact they are part of every world Government.
Its Deep State.
Bill Moyer use to talk about this until NPRs funding came under question.
Silence and omissions are veiled complicency.


----------



## chimuelo

And youre right.
Trump would play along.
But theyve invested so heavily in Clinton that true NeoCons have to fight for thier investors.

Its all about the money Larry.

Why no senate budget for 5 years?
In 2013/14 Redacted FOIA requests reveal tax payers are charged 900,000 dollars per person on welfare. Read the senate finance committees response to GOA warnings.

Liberals took the fall for this but only after rewarded the shovel ready stimulus.
This is the direct involvement of asset managers at the fed.
Its being repeated world wide now.
Amazing coordination eh?
This is Deep State NeoCon shit.

Bill Moyer reported on this and TPP meetings in Asia 4 years ago.
NPR funding came under question.
That stopped that.

Read old man Rockefellers Biography.
The plan from way back then is this exact strategy by Central Banks we see today.
Right down to the currency manipulation predictions.
Only difference is he never dreamed they would succeed in sucking China into this.
So you see the plan was incredibly successful.
Right down to labor exploitation across borders.

Kerry said it best when he slipped at a college commencement speech back in May.

Prepare yourselves for a borderless complex world.


----------



## NYC Composer

Tell it to the birdies, Jimmy. If left/right didn't matter we would have never gone into Iraq. There would be no Social Security or Medicare. There would be no unions. There would have been no successful civil rights legislation-we'd still be under apartheid.We'd have full governmental eugenics continuing to this day. The free market was never free but once upon a time oligarchs roamed the earth completely unchecked as opposed to barely checked. Think Pinkertons. Think Union busters. C'mon man. I never said it was simple left/right, money and power run everything-but yes, there's some goddamn difference and the kind of thinking that allows you to make that statement is just as sheepish from a "they're all the same" standpoint as the left/right cemented views you rail against. There's more nuance than that. Bernie and Trump are different from each other. Goldwater and Johnson were quite different. There's a difference.


----------



## NYC Composer

Btw- OT- the most interesting politician ever was Nixon. He had no real moral standard, he just danced to wherever he needed to be, sort of like Trump, except he was brilliant, hard working, indefatigable and astute. He also had a deep grudge. He felt the world had stuck it to him and he was gonna stick it back. They never let him into the club, so he made his own.

Easily the most unlikeable man who ever won the Presidency. He was an opera, I swear.


----------



## chimuelo

Theres no difference Larry, not anymore.
Notice how Leadership sacrifices younger members so they can oppose a vote that is opposite of the other gang.
Looks great for the Cameras.
So if Reid Pelosi reject TPP why do thier members secretly fly to Asia knowing thier leadership is against it?
Why can Hillary push TPP then suddenly I read it finally and disagree.
Oh so you pushed it through without reading?

Cmon Larry. Left Right fantasy was hinged on abortion and gay rights.
They need some new narratives because every globalist neocon law that comes up gets passed and a President negotiates this while his party pretends to be against it.

You can go back to the 60s all you want.
It started being public when Eisenhower warned voters of the future.
Kennedys assasination scared everyone.
Especially Johnson.
He immediately sent hundreds of 1000s of troops into Southeast Asia.
You know, to fight that war that Asian boys oughtta be fighting.

Left, right.
They sure have hundreds of millions for getting a low 6 figure salary.
Thats only 1 thing they have in common.


----------



## chimuelo

Gotta go to work.
0400 hours I can further proove we really are united.
Unless of course I score some trim.
Then bashing the elites will have to wait.

Cheerz


----------



## NYC Composer

Laterz dude.


----------



## Soundhound

Like everything in the world, I think it's more complicated than that Jimmy. I don't think anybody's pulling strings, artfully playing out faux election cycles. Conspiracy theories collapse of their own weight, they rely hilariously on seamless, intricately coordinated orchestration. It's fantastical thinking. 

As Larry spelled out, the things Progressives fought for throughout the 20th century were real and critical and made a difference to millions of lives. The right wing fought back tooth and nail every step of the way, finally found it's spokesman in Reagan, and ever since has succeeded in rolling back voting rights, unions, regulation of big capital, implemented endless war... If the supreme court hadn't stolen the 2000 election for the Bush crime family, things would be very different today.

This isn't to say that Clinton et. al. aren't complicit. To what degree, who knows, but I do know that whenever and wherever republicans are in power the clock moves backward, when democrats are in power it can move forward. Not always, and more often than not slowly, painfully, fitfully, often one step forward and two steps back to be sure, but forward nevertheless. Voting for any Republican anywhere, at any level, is a monstrously ignorant and/or hateful thing to do in this day an age. Voting for Democrats is very often useless, but it's never as bad as voting for a Republican. 

Until a real movement for change gains traction—and just maybe, hopefully, this cycle was the initial throat clearing—I think the charge needs to be: first do no harm, or at the very least, first do less harm. There has been terrible structural damage done to the U.S. as a society by the right wing (and the democrats too often tagging along to get along) the last fifty years, and people are rightfully angry. When that happens you open yourself up to a piece of shit like Trump who knows a sucker when he sees one, and has no compunction about using it for personal gain. Hopefully we dodged the bullet this time.


----------



## chimuelo

Of course.
There's left and right.
Just look at all of those shows called news that would not exist.
After TPP passes we can look back and see who benefits.
And how racist right and human rights lefties just happened to agree again.


----------



## chimuelo

The Foundation donor list is a NeoCon fraternity club.
Barclays. Exxon.
The first two on thier list are the best examples.
Who is the COO of that Banking institution married to.
Exxon, check who owns the combination of controlling shares.
No conspiracy there.
It's in your face.
The impressive consolidation of wealth is brilliant.

To think they all got together just to help the children.
I'm touched beyond words.


----------



## Soundhound

Names? What Foundation? Ok I give, who is the COO? As much fun as riddles are, if there aren't specifics, then it's too easily ignored as Breitbart induced tripe.


<<The Foundation donor list is a NeoCon fraternity club.
Barclays. Exxon.
The first two on thier list are the best examples.
Who is the COO of that Banking institution married to.
Exxon, check who owns the combination of controlling shares.>>


----------



## chimuelo

Your laziness to research is your problem.
Your knowledge of who is full of Crap is impressive, add you name since you actually defend NeoCons.

It's called Chief Operations Officer.
I'll save you the hassle of diverting yourself from spoonfed Gerbers.
He, This top dog is married to a Rothschild daughter.

But if they give millions saving children puppies and kittens all other investments in regime changes are forgiven.


----------



## Soundhound

I know what a COO is you maroon. Your problem, I increasingly suspect, is you're full of shit. Name names jimmy, otherwise you're just copy and pasting breitbart nonsense. In fact, the more you spell out your thinking, the more it does seem to come directly from Breitbart. kind of fits with your (now abandoned) Trumplust, this Bannon character took over breitbart after the original ghoul croaked a few years ago.


----------



## chimuelo

Multinational Corporations.
Pick any oppressive nation where gays are killed, women denied rights, that's the names and where cash to dispose of a real progressive came from.
That's your NeoCon regime changer selected for you.
She keeps blacks out of your neighborhood by eliminating school choice and vouchers.

That's the real white power you stand with.
Hoodless geniuses as they've hypnotized thier minorities most skillfully.
All of this for a few extra Big Macs.
Impressive.


----------



## Soundhound

I love the poetry Jimmy, as always. But without real names, places and facts, it's just a catchy tune.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> The Foundation donor list is a NeoCon fraternity club.
> Barclays. Exxon.
> The first two on thier list are the best examples.
> Who is the COO of that Banking institution married to.
> Exxon, check who owns the combination of controlling shares.
> No conspiracy there.
> It's in your face.
> The impressive consolidation of wealth is brilliant.
> 
> To think they all got together just to help the children.
> I'm touched beyond words.



Jimbo-my wife works for an organization called The Foundation Center. Google it and then tell me who knows more about foundations, you or me.


----------



## chimuelo

She knows more, but is a true humanitarian, probably doesn't delete her investors names either.

But does Barclays or Saudi Royal Family send her millions?

Does she require 8 million a year for travel expenses.
Do you play at functions for 500,000 bucks for a 45 minute set?

Probably not, but if so, hats off.

No names Soundhound.
Wipe your ass with the NYTimes, then research real journalists, investigative types, not pipe smoking Manhattanite stenographers.

.


----------



## NYC Composer

She's a humanitarian but a pragmatist, just like me. We try not to spout liberal or conservative headlines. Unlike yourself, Jimmy. When you go on these kind of rants about which you clearly don't know as much as I do, you sound less intelligent than I know you are.

What's worse, when caught up in making purely ideological statements you pretend it was irony or satire. Stand up and admit it, dude.


----------



## chimuelo

As proof of my superior research skills, dig deep into your comprehension.
About a year ago someone was talking about Chinas expansion into international waters.
I replied why not, who is going to stop them?
I commented about the Chinese military base in the choke point of the Red Sea.
Today I get a feed from AP about a new Chinese military base....

So if you like news filtered for you, dont research, wait to be fed...
Just another example of my pattern based research skills.
I usually have week to 10 days head start.
But almost a year ago I looked at Satellite shots of anti piracy outposts in Somalia and Djibouti.
Anywhere where we conduct military operations interests me.
Media doesnt tell us anything unless its right left sheep stuff...


----------



## chimuelo

Nothing to admit Larry.
Maybe Im misunderstanding you?


----------



## NYC Composer

You're as much a politician as all of them, Jimmy. Never answer the question that was asked, right? Just make another statement about what you want to get across.


----------



## NYC Composer

Skipped right over the evil foundation discussion, Jimmy. Turned the subject to your superior research skillz.


----------



## chimuelo

Want to hear some more whacko ideas from a pro infrastructure voter.

This year in California wildfires already cost 1.5 billion.
Floods will cost just Baton Rouge and Louisianna twice that.
14 billion would transfer flood waters from the Midwest to drought stricken States.

But what Nevada, California and Arizona do is drain the Colorado River which ruined Wetlands disrupting wildlife and migration cycles.

Billions wasted, Sea of Cortez Wetlands might make a comeback in 20 years.

Incompetence.
Trillions wasted on making Banks too big to fail. Worthless infrastructure jobs like a train for grape pickers to Napa Valley. A terminal for a Senators personal airport who died and can't use it.

So if you want to understand why I have no use for either of these self serving law firms there ya go.

When I see dangerous dead foliage built up in drought stricken areas I get so pissed off.

My mom and 200,000 Californians use to work in the summers clearing this flammable brush and scrub away. Didn't even get paid. Now millions of bums sit on thier ass collecting cash who should at least work once a week for thier free ride.

Now firefighters take a stand to protect property as fires ravage hilltop to hilltop.

I've read about private companies submitting bids to replace the entire electrical grid for 17 billion including EMP protection.
That was in 2010 when snipers took out a chunk of California's grid with a 50 caliber rifle shot.
The legislation was passed by Al Frankens committee on CSPAN, I watched it.

Nothing was done.
Stimulus disappeared, trillions of debt and nothing but bigger banks to show for it.

Throw these bums out.


----------



## NYC Composer

And again, back on a rant. Ok.

So, if ranting is your thing, a vote for anyone but Trump is just a vote for the bums. At least with Trump, low information narcissist/snake oil salesman though he is, you get a clean slate, right? So your choice is clear. Gary Johnson is the coward's way out as he's only a peripheral player.

Be the things you speak, sez I.


----------



## chimuelo

I might vote for Hillary.
The Clinton's said if they win they will no longer accept foreign money at the foundation.
But I am plexxed.

Are they saying now that money wasn't for the children?

How about Hillary help out her blacks?
Why bother the overhead of shipping and security when you can just donate 20,000,000 every time you get off of your private Jet.

Sure cut down on the 8 million a year for travelling to save the children.


----------



## NYC Composer

I love ya Jimmy, but don't bother debating anymore or stating your views-I'm fully informed.

Me-"Jimmy, why do you suppose the Clinton foundation has a good rating on Charity Watch?"

You-"in my extensive research which you left right people don't bother to do i've found millions and millions of payments going to charity watch from ACORN and Bill Ayres."

Me -"Jimmy, why is the sky blue?"

You-"another liberal boondoggle that came up on my news feed it used to be half red half blue until the elites decided red would scare the puppies and kiddies so they sprayed blue chemicals into the atmosphere until it was totally blue."

Me-"Jimmy, you can't vote for Trump because you're smart and he isn't and that's bad."

You- ""Sheep yadda yadda yadda left right yadda yadda yaddayadda liberals yadda yadda yadda yadda all the same blahblahblah puppies and kiddies blah blah blah New York Times sucks blah blah blah blah blah blah stimulus yaddayaddayadda Nevada is great blah blahblahblah...."

I could go on, but so will you.


----------



## Soundhound

Not to pile on, but I solved the Chimuelo mystery. It looks years of research, a tremendous amount of manpower and countless lives. But I did it. On an iPad during a flight no less. I uncovered the endless treasure trove from whence the endless dark info flows. Turns out to be Breitbart.com. You've been cutting and pasting from one website, putting it into a Word file, and hitting 'blend'. Sometimes you hit 'puree', sometimes you hit 'liquify'. Sometimes you don't turn the damn thing on at all. You need to take that iPhone 6 or Galaxy 7 or whatever it is you hunker down with between sets and store it safely where the moon don't shine.


----------



## chimuelo

Sure they have a good grade. Just had to refile 4 years of 990s, include countries buying arms like Algeria that were ommitted.
Other than these breaches of conduct Obama made her sign, its a great foundation.
Too bad they cant help Americans with those billions.
But yes helping the children in disease ridden countries is great.
Curious why Bill wasnt allowed to fundraise in N.Korea, guess that was pushing the envelope.
Besides Ambassador Rodman did an excellent job.

Just bad optics to see foreign nations getting arms deals, then once the deal went through donations to the foundation.

Sure, a person even thinking that was paybto play hates children, belongs to the KKK, and is low information.

Every position thry held while serving has been marginilized by abuse of power and conduct unbecoming.

I just cant believe Americans are stuck with Trump or a failed politician being rewarded with the highest office.

I really pray she does a good job.
I really would love to see her get something right for once.
The law of averages is in our favor.

Like a roulette wheel, you can lose 5 bucks for a green spot and 4 reds in a row, total loss of 25 on 5 spins.
Just bet 95 bucks (5 on every black) on the 6th spin and your ahead 80 after 6 rolls.


----------



## chimuelo

Sorry bro, Im an original.
Copy paste my quotes in google.

You wont see Conservative or Liberal talking points.
That lazy tactic is for the indoctrinated.

Gotta catch Hillarys speech.
Shes going after all of the donors to the foundation.
Going where the money is.
The super wealthy.
Must be a new taxable category.
If you make more than 3 billion, you have to pay the IRS 800,000,000 or give the foundation 150,000,000.


----------



## Soundhound

That's the beauty of all this. Endless claims of research, and it's all from Breitbart. Paddy Chayefsky would be proud. No wonder no names or facts are offered: The wildly corrupt ruling class employing both parties to line their own corporatist pockets—it's pure, unadulterated Steve Bannon. And the lovely irony is your boy is now show runner on the Trump pileup.


----------



## chimuelo

Thats funny.
I google my comments and it comes right back here.
Dont waste your time.
These clowns probably copy me.

Dont do sets.
One 90 minute show watching people getting soaked.
Lovely night in the land of southern racists.


----------



## chimuelo

Settle down Shound.
You will still be worshipping wealthy whites.
Your team got rid of the real progressive.
You'll still get free stuff, just not nearly as much.

Trump was meant to be the bad cop.
Millions pour into the foundation to beat Trump.
His tactics and points scare the shit out of the world.
But for another 50,000,000 we'll promise no nukes to Japan.
And please you NATO countries, pay up so we can say see, theyre cooperating, then 10,000,000 into the foundation and that will cover your end of the deal.


----------



## NYC Composer

Speaking of Trump (ahem, you know, on topic?):

So I watched the pivot on Thursday. It was interesting.

The way I see it, Trump and Kellyanne and Bannon were sitting in a room strategizing. Kellyanne was trying to get him to focus on specific points. Bannon came down strongly on the Nixonian "law and order" messaging to appeal to fearful white suburban racists everywhere while simultaneously pretending to speak to African-Americans. Bannon also came up with the "what the hell do you have to lose?" appeal to African American voters, stating that it was good strategy in making Trump sound reasonable while still sounding extremely Trumpian. My guess is that Bannon came up with a bunch of other crap that Conway carefully nixed.

Her angle, meanwhile, was the non-apology. How to appear sincere and contrite (with a wink) so he could move on from months and months of poll-killing nonsense.

Whatchoo think?


----------



## chimuelo

To make it appear as a real election and get rid of the Brighton Beach connection, this will keep Trump interested.

But the Former Black Panther turned Independent whose books I read found thier way into Trumps "What do you have to lose" script.

The author is never allowed on media channels.
K icked out of teaching.
A real contraversial dude.
Conway is going right to the soft under belly of the white ruling clsss Liberal.

Trump still continues to put blacks and hispanics behind him.
Doesnt work. They look like hostages,

But Conway is quite effective.
She talks and listens quietly for the cameras.
But I smell a intelligent ferociousness since she took over.


----------



## NYC Composer

As I opined previously, she's good. I still want to know what you think of my imagined strategy session. I'm serious-I think that's the way it probably went down, or something close.


----------



## chimuelo

I agree, but it takes a smart person to somehow make Trump think it was his idea.
And that is as close to an apology you could get from Trump.
Conways husband is going to be handing over information of discovery in the Paula Jones payoff.
He is privvy to information the public is unaware of.

Interesting to see how they can break an NDA without revealing sources directly involved in the sexual assault settlement.

You know Trump will use this during a debate.

Conway will be biting her nails off hoping he stays calm.
But Hillary has paid millions for her coaches and theyre watching Trump tapesvlike an NFL Scrimmaging roster.


----------



## chimuelo

Everytime I get bored with Trump tirades he somehow comes up with new angles nobody ever dreamed of.

Regardless of who wins these 2 parties are history.
The fake right left game has been exposed its over.

Indoctrinated Liberals and Conservatives will join in some new fake resemblence, but a workers party will be created and thats great news to fight wealthy globalists with.


----------



## NYC Composer

(sigh) "Globalism". Your constant use of that term. Okay. Please define "globalism", and give me some examples of people who are not "globalists." Not who IS, this I already know from your rumblings-tell me who ISN'T.


----------



## chimuelo

Everyone who works for a living.
We believed the elites for 30 years with trickle down, NAFTA.
As usual the unintended consequences of allowing Corporations to become Multi National.
The promise was prosperity.

Tell that to blacks who worked hard and had good paying jobs then watched taxes chase out businesses in every industrial city creating Liberal ghettos.

Millions of Americans watched their families forced into both parents working.
Then the incentives of single motherhood.

Its almost as if these politicians were making a fortune selling out thier citizens.

Wait a minute, I think that happened...


.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Everyone who works for a living.
> We believed the elites for 30 years with trickle down, NAFTA.
> As usual the unintended consequences of allowing Corporations to become Multi National.
> The promise was prosperity.
> 
> Tell that to blacks who worked hard and had good paying jobs then watched taxes chase out businesses in every industrial city creating Liberal ghettos.
> 
> Millions of Americans watched their families forced into both parents working.
> Then the incentives of single motherhood.
> 
> Its almost as if these politicians were making a fortune selling out thier citizens.
> 
> Wait a minute, I think that happened...
> 
> 
> .



So, my research tells me that the opposite of globalism is nationalism. DJT want to put America First. He often says that phrase, which has been resonating with me since I first heard him say it.

Here's a little story about an American hero and nationalism:

http://time.com/4273812/america-first-donald-trump-history/


----------



## NYC Composer

...and Jimmy-yes. It's not new news, and I understand your point, but it wasn't just NAFTA or globalism that made "good paying jobs" disappear, and in my opinion, no one will create any new good paying industrial jobs without a UUUUUUGE guvmint program. That ship sailed, and we don't want to be China or Mexico, not really.


----------



## Baron Greuner

When does the lip reading start?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> When does the lip reading start?



Hilarious video. But like you, I was expecting some audio overdub.


----------



## chimuelo

Hey Larry what are the chances of the Foundation doing anything for the thousands of Americans in Louissianna?
What a great oppurtunity for them to prove the Foundations usefulness.
Even a few 40 foot rigs of medical supplies or water.
WalMart was there during Katrina.
Trump brought a tractor trailer full of Make America Great Again hats and Trump Steaks.


----------



## chimuelo

Conservative and Liberal fundraisers should each take 100,000,000 from thier negative ad money and help out.
I dont think the Feds have any money.

Hey maybe another multi billion cash for clunkers program.
We could sure get alot of Obama Biden bumper stickers from 2012 off of the road.


----------



## Soundhound

The Republicans have fought against workers rights for more than a century. They fought against the forming of unions, anti trust legislation, FDR and the new deal... ad infinitum. They have always been against worker's rights and for big business. The only way the right wing got worker's votes was by using racism as a tool of fear and resentment after the civil rights movement. The tea party and Trump rallies are that sentiment finally being expressed publicly. It's how this obviously incompetent money grubber can convince low intelligence voters that he's their champion. Without the racist element Trump has no support. And it's the same for Ted Cruz, Scott Walker, Tom Delay ad infinitum, they just don't say it out loud. They appeal to religious intolerance, the last vestiges of people who still believe in trickle down theory, and get those people to think the right wing is working for working people.

Larry that does sound like what's going on at the strategy breakfasts with Trump. The apology sounded like a new voice and it actually was concerning. If they built on it, they could have something there. And the population that elected George W Bush after he invaded and destroyed a country for absolutely no reason, turning up the dial on the heat in the middle east, creating Isis, ,etc... has been dumbed down enough by a generation of Fox News to be fooled again, they are stupid enough to vote for him. But then Trump comes out with what do you have to lose as an appeal to black voters. And yes, that is Breitbart word for word.

Whew, I think we'll be fine. The misogynists/angry white men who could never get any in high school and whose only contact with women now is in strip clubs, will continue to rant against Hillary Clinton. But they were chumps no one paid attention to back then, and no one cares about them now. We should get to see what kind of president Clinton becomes.


----------



## chimuelo

Well let's just get behind whichever white racist globalist wins.

Evil Republicans, one who use to be a Liberal, built an entire Skyline in Las Vegas and are now building all over California, supplementing Goverment contracts.

So California and Nevada are seeing a boom thanks to white racist Republican billionaires and Jerry Brown, a real progressive, who I wished would have run.

Great record of saving pensions and keeping Silicon Valley from moving to Reno.

Who ever wins only need see Brown's infrastructure partnerships.
De Salinization plants are from evil GOP Billionaire from New England and State funding working together.

My buddy bought a house in N.Hollywood and is running crews on 3 projects there.
Funny he refers to the partnerships and lend lease?
FDR Lives.

My boy is moving down there in October and I got some roughneck Iron Workers watching out for his Green Ass.

Look at the positives you miserable fux.
It Congress that needs to get behind the winner and jump start the economy fast.
The winner would be wise to use LIUNA to train and recruit young blacks making them apprentices then journeyman in 2-3 years.

Think positive you old goats.


----------



## Soundhound

Jerry Brown has done amazing things in a very short time. If progressives were running things all over we would be living in a very different time. but we've spent the last fifty years fighting the republican corporatist hacks, the kind of people that hire the Kellyanne Conways of the world to make them palatable to working people. can you imagine what could have been accomplished if we hadn't been wasting time fighting off the primitive yearnings of the amurican guns and god crowd? maybe this will be the election where the American taliban is finally routed out of existence. I am so sick and tired of stupid people.


----------



## chimuelo

You're still forgetting the American way bro...
Your team is no good without the other team.
Start thinking along those lines and shed your wool.

Wealthy evil white racist GOP Billionaires with a real progressive with a string of successes rather than failures, need money.
After all, without capitalism the socialist end of things is just pie in the sky.
Takes 2 to tango.

Brown is uniting folks, not like the fake Liberals we sent packing in recent years.
Their division by race and religion, wealth, gender has failed.
We removed those dirtbags, and will continue to do so.

Don't forget, us Independents decide who goes and stays in DC, well except for the billionaire picked leadership of both Crime Families.


----------



## Soundhound

As the yuppies say, unpack this: 

<<Wealthy evil white racist GOP Billionaires with a real progressive with a string of successes rather than failures, need money.>>

Your fever dream about Vegas and California sounds like a Koch brothers wet dream. What billionaires, what projects?


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Hey Larry what are the chances of the Foundation doing anything for the thousands of Americans in Louissianna?
> What a great oppurtunity for them to prove the Foundations usefulness.
> Even a few 40 foot rigs of medical supplies or water.
> WalMart was there during Katrina.
> Trump brought a tractor trailer full of Make America Great Again hats and Trump Steaks.


I agree 100%. Maybe more.


----------



## chimuelo

SHound...


Google.
desalinization Connecticutt southern California.

Tudor Saliba

Perini

I only point. You don't get links as it causes me to leave a footprint.
Don't like leaving trails for stalkers.

Enjoy the Liberal Taliban example.

Pertaining to Cruz, I remember him siding with voters and calling for Obama to delay the rollout of the ACA on its October debut.
Frothers of the left called him a terrorist, suicide bomber, racist, etc.
The usual drivel.
Days later Obama delayed it since the multi billion dollar website was complete and utter failure.

I then deduced Liberals considered Obama the terrorist, suicide bomber, etc.

Good to know they use Taliban these days.
Much better description of a man caused contingency....


----------



## Soundhound

<<Google.
desalinization Connecticutt southern California.
Tudor Saliba
Perini>>

Excellent! I will google and report back to base.

<<I only point. You don't get links as it causes me to leave a footprint.
Don't like leaving trails for stalkers.>>

Seriously? Just cause you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you, eh? Pass along my best to Messrs Snowden and Assange, if you would. I am a little more at home knowing you are kind of nuts... 


<<Enjoy the Liberal Taliban example.>>

Now what's this? The 'I'm rubber, you're glue' approach? I think it was Trump pulled one out of his ass a couple weeks ago? Copycat.

<<Pertaining to Cruz, I remember him siding with voters and calling for Obama to delay the rollout of the ACA on its October debut.
Frothers of the left called him a terrorist, suicide bomber, racist, etc.
The usual drivel.
Days later Obama delayed it since the multi billion dollar website was complete and utter failure.>>

Whoopsie, slipping back into Fox News style conflation/confusion/bullshit. Cruz siding with voters, ACA was a failure because of a lame website launch. Jimmy, honestly...

<<I then deduced Liberals considered Obama the terrorist, suicide bomber, etc.
Good to know they use Taliban these days.
Much better description of a man caused contingency....>>

And end with a mescaline induced, indecipherphable scramble. Nice!


----------



## chimuelo

Actually not worried about Uncle Sam.
Information sellers get hacked all the time. A direct route to your online purchasing.

Must suck being reminded those you worship are losers.
Sit tight.
Us Independents might allow real Liberals like Tulsi Gabbard back in.
The other fake Liberals might get a shot too.
But only due to a lack of options.

GOP boys supported TPP with thier wealthy Liberal globalists.
Think well get rid of thier asses in 2 years.
So be nice to me or I'll instruct thousands of Hispanic tradesmen to vote for Bible Thumpers.


----------



## chimuelo

FWIW Mescaline extracted from Peyote, then mixed with a touch of Chocolate Pudding powder is awesome.
I play my best after doing a couple of rat tails. Can't do one. No sense walking around lopsided.
Besides my Navajo connection Chief Sav a Ho demands the full effect when trading wampum.


----------



## NYC Composer

The extent of the assumption by liberal media of a Clinton victory startles me and strikes me as extremely dangerous.


----------



## chimuelo

Desperate to win.
Lies piled on to layers of other lies.
Lying liberals.

This is thier mantra
Thier candidate is really bad at lying.
But she gets off the hook.
That's what counts.
avoiding accountability is a skill set.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Regarding the Louisiana floods, I blame the Louisiana Natural Disaster Brand Marketing Manager for the tepid response. "Katrina" and "Sandy" will be remembered for decades. Nobody will write songs about, "It rained a whole lot." If you want people to care about a disaster, at least give it a name. Next, find an iconic image, make a logo, write a song, find a poster child, hire a marquee celebrity, do a media tour, hold a contest, do a benefit concert, and so on. Given that I haven't been watching any TV news, all I got is, "it rained a whole lot." Being from the Pacific Northwest, it's hard to get our attention with "rain."

Then again, I still remember when Bobby Jindal said that volcano monitoring was a joke and should be defunded. That's not so funny when you live less than 40 miles from this:






But at least Mount St. Helens has a name.


----------



## passsacaglia

Scary, I just googled "super volcano" last week because it said something about a super volcano that researchers found bigger than they first predicted and an eruption could be close...or at least closer than they thought hehe.
Cool pic companiero must've been really difficult capturing that to, so good job I'd never fix that tho 
Cheers!


----------



## NYC Composer

Hillary doesn't avoid accountability with me. I will be voting for her with distaste, but because her only opposition is a low information, race baiting, self absorbed adolescent with no discernible ideas or experience , it's my pragmatic choice.


----------



## chimuelo

Totally agree, just cant vote for Trump.

Clinton wont do anything that stops me from earning.
Rampid regulations killing small business doesnt affect me.
Subsidizing banks is great as my credit hours are up 21 bucks from the 80 billion monthly to Wall Street.
Sounds like we'll be exempted through 2024 for the 18 million campaign contribution.
As much as I despise liars and money grubbing trial lawyers, I always seem to do OK when we purchase them.


----------



## Soundhound

Googled. Those two companies merged in 2008, big public works contractors. Litigation by CA/LA gvmt about LAX runway... nothing about desalination plants. 

And you can't just steal the _______ Taliban thing and stick Liberal in place of American. The point is that the right wing pushes religion like crack as part of their package, doesn't really translate to the Dems...

Annnnnnyywaaaayyyy... didn't see a conspiracy, so fill in the blanks! Use your secret decoder ring, I won't tell anybody, I promise!!!





chimuelo said:


> SHound...
> 
> 
> Google.
> desalinization Connecticutt southern California.
> 
> Tudor Saliba
> 
> Perini
> 
> I only point. You don't get links as it causes me to leave a footprint.
> Don't like leaving trails for stalkers.
> 
> Enjoy the Liberal Taliban example.


----------



## NYC Composer

You're a pretty damn good writer, 'hound. This is a great thread.


----------



## chimuelo

Connecticutt investor partnering with Jerry Brown building the salt water plants.
Point is they are showing everyone how unnaffordable projects can be pursued.
California was struggling with pensions Brown couldnt build without private investment.

Tudor Saliba sold Perini.
These guys build around the world.
Lend Lease and these guys are doing infrastructure all over SoCal and South Bay with partnerships under Brown.

My point is these guys have bonding to do billions in construction.
Too bad the 800 billion Liberals got during the super majority was misappropriated.
The west coast is under going massive building for 65 billion of matching private money.

Imagine what 800 billion would do.
Sad, we had the money but instead blew it on Bull shit favors and subsidizing Wind Mills for relatives of politicians.

They work for 7 months.
5 months they shut down because Global Warming Scientists were so smart they forgot to cross reference migratory patterns. Lots of dead Eagles Condors Falcons Geese.

But hey, we pay them lots of money, so it was a success.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump is going to Harlem.
He has to be nuts...


----------



## NYC Composer

Great, assuming he's doing 125th street, I'll walk over from 110th and CPW.


----------



## Soundhound

Well thanks man, back atcha. It's certainly gotten more attention than some work has! 



NYC Composer said:


> You're a pretty damn good writer, 'hound. This is a great thread.


----------



## Soundhound

Okay nice. Well public/private partnership is a great thing, when it's not lining pockets and leaving roads unpaved. Capitalism is powerful and can create great things, as long as it's regulated up the wazoo, otherwise the money goes straight to Dick Cheney's stints.

But I'd still like to be able to google these Liberals you speak of, the ones who misappropriated the 800 billion. 

Every time I go home to NY I look at the gorgeous new Hudson river waterfront and figure a ton of tarp money must have gone there to make the greaseball financial douchebags and their slovenian model girlfriends happy.

Show me the liberals Jimmy!



chimuelo said:


> Connecticutt investor partnering with Jerry Brown building the salt water plants.
> Point is they are showing everyone how unnaffordable projects can be pursued.
> California was struggling with pensions Brown couldnt build without private investment.
> 
> Tudor Saliba sold Perini.
> These guys build around the world.
> Lend Lease and these guys are doing infrastructure all over SoCal and South Bay with partnerships under Brown.
> 
> My point is these guys have bonding to do billions in construction.
> Too bad the 800 billion Liberals got during the super majority was misappropriated.
> The west coast is under going massive building for 65 billion of matching private money.
> 
> Imagine what 800 billion would do.
> Sad, we had the money but instead blew it on Bull shit favors and subsidizing Wind Mills for relatives of politicians.
> 
> They work for 7 months.
> 5 months they shut down because Global Warming Scientists were so smart they forgot to cross reference migratory patterns. Lots of dead Eagles Condors Falcons Geese.
> 
> But hey, we pay them lots of money, so it was a success.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Media: What's your economic policy? Will it reduce income inequality?
Trump: The Clinton Foundation!

Media: How about your foreign policy regarding threats of Russian expansion?
Trump: Bengazi!

Media: How do you plan to reduce global warming?
Trump: Hillary's emails!

Media: When will you release your tax returns?
Trump: Crooked Hillary!

Media: Do you have any plans regarding the US incarceration rate?
Trump: Lock her up!

Media: Why are you behind in the polls?
Trump: If the disgusting and corrupt media covered me honestly and didn't put false meaning into the words I say, I would be beating Hillary by 20%!

Me: I'm sick of Trump, the GOP, and those on the right trying to win elections through character defamation. The "Impeach Clinton" bumper stickers came out the day Bill was elected. Obama has been accused of being a Muslim (as if that's a disqualification) and a foreigner as well as "lazy." With Hillary, every action gets painted as nefarious and criminal.

Yes, the left tars Trump too... with the crap he says. How dare we hold him accountable for his words? Let's cry tears for the poor victim billionaire.

Let's face it, we have much bigger issues: income inequality, incarceration rates, a need to transform our energy infrastructure, a crumbling physical infrastructure, and on and on.

But all we get from Trump/GOP is blame and "Trust me. What do you have to lose?" And now Congress wants to grill the tech providers who's products were used in the email servers. As if that is the solution to anything whatsoever.

It would be good to get this thread out of the blame game / conspiracy theories and into the policy debate. But it's hard to turn one's eyes away from the spewing of venom.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> Nick is low energy. No stamina



hahahah

Yeah, I was out of town over the weekend. Thanks for answering. Will take some uppers and go through your reply.


----------



## NYC Composer

OMG- A Nick B emoticon! Circle the date in red!! 

Jon- yep to everything you said.

'Hound- liberals/non-liberals notwithstanding, the stimulus was distributed haphazardly with few sensible requirements and crappy follow up. It was partially the panic, but much of it was inefficiency leading to some very visible misuse of funds and much less accountability than there should have been.

I was very much in favor of a stimulus. It should have been done much better.


----------



## chimuelo

Maybe Asset Managers will give Trump 800 billion when he wins.
That's roughly 140 new bridges...

Small Businesses would get a great shot in the arm since that money would be in goods and services rather than Liberal accounts on Wall Street.......


----------



## JonFairhurst

...because conservatives are not associated with Wall Street whatsoever. 

The funny thing about bagging on "Liberals" is that Hillary is a moderate and Trump is an authoritarian. This election isn't even in the vicinity of the liberal/conservative axis.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yep. Watch Wall Steet's media arm CNBC in the mornings. There's usually at least one liberal brought on every morning to be the target of derision.


----------



## chimuelo

Conservatives are proud of thier relationship with Wall Street. They don't deny it.

Liberals are all about Wall Street too.
They just prefer lying about it like some slut mistress.

Barney Frank loves Wall Street.
Corzine got to "misplace" 1.5 billion but like Hillary, rich white Liberals never get prosecuted.
DOJ had no proof, even though the cash was diverted to Europe in hopes of the first Greek bailout.

Yeah it's strictly GOP folks at Goldman Sachs....
That why Hillary goes there to get paid 600,000 to have lunch with the boys.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy have you ever been to Goldman Sachs? Let's go there one day at lunch. If you can find a genuine liberal I'm buying.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Trump's big talking point today is about the Clinton Foundation. Step 1: Distort the facts. Step 2: Make sweeping generalizations. Step 3: Call for a Special Prosecutor.

Pretty ironic that the party that brought us Citizens United now thinks that donating money for influence is a criminal act. Especially given the fact that Trump has admitted making political donations specifically for personal gain.

Just a quick reminder: Supporting Citizens United were Roberts (Bush II), Alito (Bush), Thomas (Bush), Scalia (Reagan), and Kennedy (Reagan). Opposed were Sotomayor (Obama), Breyer (Clinton), Ginsburg (Clinton), and Stevens (Ford). 

Senate Republican leader McConnell (GOP), who attended the announcement of the ruling, said in support of the decision that the court "struck a blow for the First Amendment"

Obama stated that the decision "gives the special interests and their lobbyists even more power in Washington—while undermining the influence of average Americans who make small contributions to support their preferred candidates".

Hillary has promised to push for a Constitutional Amendment to overturn Citizens United.

At the South Carolina GOP debate, the moderator asked Jeb Bush about the Supreme Court and Citizens United. He didn't address CU, talked about how great Scalia was, then Cruz made crap up about how the Senate never holds justice hearings in an election year. For the rest of the debate, the only talk about "citizens" had to do with immigration. In other words, GOP candidates know that CU isn't popular, but the GOP likes it, so they stay silent.

Trump knocked Super PACs and big donors, but only when he was running in the primary against those taking in big cash.

The GOP platform does not include the phrase, "Citizens United." However, it calls for "repeal of federal restrictions on political parties in McCain-Feingold" and "raising or repealing contribution limits" on donations directly to politicians.

https://prod-static-ngop-pbl.s3.amazonaws.com/media/documents/DRAFT_12_FINAL[1]-ben_1468872234.pdf

The Democratic Party Platform says,

_We will fight to end the broken campaign finance system, overturn the disastrous Citizens United decision, restore the full power of the Voting Rights Act, and return control of our elections to the American people...

Democrats support a constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court’s decisions in Citizens United and Buckley v. Valeo...

We will appoint judges who defend the constitutional principles of liberty and equality for all, and will protect a woman’s right to safe and legal abortion, curb billionaires’ influence over elections because they understand that Citizens United has fundamentally damaged our democracy, and believe the Constitution protects not only the powerful, but also the disadvantaged and powerless._

https://www.demconvention.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Democratic-Party-Platform-7.21.16-no-lines.pdf


This shows that the attacks on the Clinton Foundation are a diversion. It's a trick to make the GOP look like they are against political bribes and corruption. It attempts to make Hillary look like the dirty money gal. The reality is that the GOP wants to legalize political bribery while the Democrats want donation limits, public funding, and repeal of Citizens United.

Could the GOP claims of corruption be more Orwellian?

Ignore the mud fight. Look at the policies and platforms.


----------



## JonFairhurst

More platform analysis. The GOP platform uses the term "global" 19 times. Only once is the word followed by "climate." And here's what it says:

_"A Republican administration will never say, as Hillary Clinton did as Secretary of State in 2009, that raising human rights concerns 'can’t interfere with the global economic crisis, the global climate change crisis, and the security crisis.'"_

The Democratic Party Platform includes the term "global" 40 times. It as an entire section on "Global Climate Leadership"

On climate, the GOP has their head in the sand - and the sand is up their a**.

But oh yeah, Hillary had a private email server. Lock her up.


----------



## chimuelo

Wealthy white Liberals stand for all of those things?
No wonder nothing ever gets done, that's a helluva lot of utopian promises to keep.
Half of those "policies" were promised 8 years ago and 11 trillion in debt later thier voters are worse off than under Bush.

I have to admit though Liberal wealth has been a huge success.
Look at thier investors, and even thier less wealthy leaders like Warren have beautiful mansions. Multiple salaries, all legal of course, covered by tax payers.

So wealthy Liberals have done well during the trillions redistributed.

Let's ask thier minorities how great the Wasserman Schultz platform is.


----------



## chimuelo

These 2 Crime Families have done good things, but I think it's time for a pro growth candidate in. 2020.

15 years of poverty increase and decline of the middle class.

4 more years of broken promises from these bums, then Hispanics and millenials will put an end to wealthy Liberals and Conservatives.


----------



## JonFairhurst

You're in your own personal echo chamber, Chim.

BTW, if you're seriously interested in reducing the national debt and want to put an end to wealthy Ls & Cs, I recommend increasing taxes on the top 1%. 

The DNC platform includes a section on _"Making the Wealthy Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes."
_
The RNC platform says, _"Wherever tax rates penalize thrift or discourage investment, they must be lowered."_ And surprise, surprise, the biggest savers and investors are the wealthiest. If you live paycheck to paycheck, tough sh*t.

Here's the deal. Economic growth was excellent in the decades after WWII when taxation of the rich was at its highest. It helped pay off the war debt, allowed us to build infrastructure, funded social services like the GI Bill, and maximized economic mobility. The thing is, *the policy stimulated demand*. 

Things got overcooked by the mid-70s, which was reflected by high inflation and high interest rates. During that time, we needed to stimulate the supply side and slow demand.

Today, inflation is low and certain interest rates are near zero. This shows oversupply and too little demand. *Yet the GOP policy continues to reward the supply side*. Inability to raise taxes on the wealthiest hampers mobility, increases debt, makes government inefficient (since we have to pay interest on the debt.)

But no matter the question, the GOP solution is to lower taxes for the wealthy. 

Remember, Congress controls the purse. Given that the GOP controls Congress, they own the blame for the debt, not Obama.


----------



## chimuelo

Believers of the Liberal/Conservative Theology are actually good folks searching for a utopian society that does not exist.

So I respect people with such conviction and faith.
Just don't expect others to give such offerings.

Super Majority, Trillions in shovel ready jobs, keep your doctor's and now Hillary's vast wealth.....

Sorry boss, I've seen enough.
Actually back in 2011 I saw all I needed.

But worry not.
Trump won't win.
Electoral votes win and he is not pursuing those.

In 4 years Liberals with 100s of millions will have billions.
Then we can discuss the policies they stand for, call for and urge for again.

I've seen enough of these 2 Crime Families.
Thier emails sound like Mafioso.
This is a friend of ours (a made 
capo)
This is a friend of mine ( someone with millions to pay the foundation in exchange for an audience with the wealthy white queen).

It's acceptable as long as the Gangsters hand out Turkeys at Thanksgiving, just like Capone.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Haven't I read that post before ...like a hundred times.

Just another undermining, life-sucks rant. C'mon Jimmy. If you were whining about how your life sucks, that would be a step up the social ladder.


----------



## chimuelo

Saw that last time you posted it.
Dont waste your time with me.

Save it for the millions who MIGHT vote for Trump.
Registration here in Tennessee is up 30% for new voters.
Enthusiastic new voters scare the hell out of establishment multi millionaires.


----------



## NYC Composer

I am very much looking forward to 2020 as both the Democratic and Republican Party are fracturing. I foresee four viable parties.


----------



## Soundhound

The crap about the Clinton Foundation is pure Breitbart. It will stick for about 36 hours, and then they'll move on to other nonsense. Saying that the corruption in the two parties is in any way comparable is deeply, profoundly ignorant and completely unsupportable. Witness Jimmy's complete inability to back up anything he says about it. (Sorry Jimmy, you know I love you... but to date there's just no there there. Prove me wrong! If we're under the thumb of a cohesive oligarchy, I wanna know about it.)

Dick Cheney RAN the company that ran the Iraq war, and he outright lied to get us into that war. That's war profiteering. And nobody says dick about it. The Clinton Foundation does incredible work all over the world, and Breitbart maniac Bannon and his il Duce wannabe protege have the temerity to try and turn it into a story about access and favors for money. It's the worst kind of reductive lying. And it has been the right wing's stock in trade since Nixon proved it could win elections. Trickle down economics, WMD, voter fraud, everything the right wing uses is bullshit. The smart Republicans know it, the ignorant people who vote for them are driven by racism, misogyny, selfishness and greed.

There. I feel better.

edit: Four parties would be nice! Not holding my breath, but if you don't have dreams, you have nightmares...


----------



## NYC Composer

'hound, I agree with much of what you say. Here's where I disagree-

Every one of Hillary's major problems are of her own making. I don't believe she's particularly corrupt as politicians go. I think she's grown unwittingly arrogant and careless. Knowing she would again run for President, she never should have been within 1000 miles of the Foundation. The email server looks hinky and probably is. The "I won't do it if I'm President" press release was profoundly stupid. The expensive speeches for Wall Street were ill considered. Bill made a fortune when he left office. Did they really need so much more money? How much is enough?

She's always been very competitive and a political opportunist. I'm fine with all
of that, it's the gig. If you do some good along the way as she has, you're far better than most. Still, it all galls me.
She takes money from all sources. I hate the whole thing. I want to see a different country, different standards for public servants.

I miss Bernie already. I think I am going to join his "political revolution", and trust me, I'm no joiner.


----------



## Soundhound

I hear you, I agree all the way around about Hillary Clinton. Whether it means she will be a corrupt president and we won't see any progress I really have no idea. I am very curious about what we'll see over the first two years. Part of me doesn't really expect much, I hoped for a lot with Obama, and don't get me wrong, I understand he faced opposition unlike any president before him, but I think he tried too hard to win the over side over. Coupled with the fact that at heart he's a moderate, and we didn't get much done.

But I don't think you can compare Hillary et. al. with the Republicans. And the Republican nominee for President of the United States is Donald Trump. Listen to that sentence. It's just mind boggling. That's what the Republican party has been heading for, and they've finally arrived.


----------



## chimuelo

Boy its sure fun pretending we are such great human beings that we have every Bank, Multi National Corporation and billionaire, and now foriegn governments pouring billions into the Capital just to serve us.

Personally I admire the way Clintons put a Presidential Warchest together while serving at State.
Its brilliant and I think folks are jealous.

She held onto State secrets at her house years after she left office.
This is not the actions of complacency or arrogance, its sheer genius.

The stupid GOP is finally catching onto to the game years after the transactions.

Fuck having a Senate and Congress.
Use a pair of foundations and shake down the world for trillions to save children, kittens and puppies.

But Im confused? Why does Breitbart get credit for everything?
I thought white racists from the Associated Press broke the news on investors buying audiences for millions?

Its going to be a great 4 years.
Hillary will sell Supreme Court spots for at least 50,000,000.
Its not a job you get voted out of.
Its safe, so 50 million is a fair price.

I do admire the genius of these rich Liberals.
Fucking GOP is just late for thier own funeral.

Long Live The Queen....


----------



## Soundhound

Oh stop it, it's Breitbart spin on a nothing story. And the GOP is playing catch up? Nixon's dirty tricks boys, Lee Atwater's scorched earth. For chrissake jimmy the republicans are an nba all star team by comparison, there's no contest. They've just rat fucked their way into a corner, and they're going to lose the presidency the senate, plus the Supreme Court for a couple of generations as a result.


----------



## chimuelo

Brietbart Fox Times all get feeds from the AP and Reuters.
All they do is pile on and spin it for corporations they sell ad spots to.
Take some feeds from AP if you want to be a day ahead of theses stenographers.
They actually post facts without any bias, its the parrotts who add thier unsolicted opinions and op eds to thier work since they need help creating a 24 hour news cycle.

Only difference with Clintons of before and now is Huma Abadin.
Shes a class act that has come a long way in a short time.
Vallory Jaret and her have impressed me.
Dont agree with half of thier foreign policy but none of us have the information these folks do. So when you dont have enough information you watch and learn, maybe.
But sure hope Huma does her gig again at the White House.
Shes the brains behind this.

Ive been checking for her transcripts from FBI interviews and no way thats going to be shared.
By law it is part of the public record.
But FOIA is a great way to say check my deposition or my testifying behind close door committes, I have nothing to hide.
But those requests are stalled for 2 years.

Some sharp folks running this show.


----------



## Soundhound

Yes, the Clintons are sharks for sure. I remember when the democrats had been getting their asses kicked for years (Dukakis in the snoopy hat...) and Clinton finally came along. Someone who could outshark the sharks. The sentiment was, he's an shark, but at least he's not a supply side psychopath. As it turned out, his triangulation was code for capitulation and the horrific destruction of deregulation of the Reagan era got even worse. And the maniacs still impeached him for a blowjob. The republicans make the salem witch trial look like a sleepy zoning board meeting. All that all american crap while creating endless wars, and family values bullshit while molesting young boys, taking off with their secretaries while leaving their wives in cancer wards. They are disgusting people. I'm voting for Clinton and hoping for the best.


----------



## chimuelo

I always liked family value guys too.
Mark Sanford, Elliot Spitzer, Bill Clinton, Denny Hastert, John Edwards and Humas husband is a sexual offender.
Wonder what her tradional Shia mother thought of her daughter marrying him?
Probably really liked him more after his embarrassing lies and sexual offences.

Yeah, I just love knowing these lying bastards are there just to help us dummies out.


----------



## Soundhound

Newt Gingrich, Larry Craig, Strom Thurmond, David Dreier, Mark Foley, John Ensign, Mark Souder... there aren't enough zeros and ones to list all the republican hypocrites... The Democrats don't use family values puritanical crap as their dog whistle, the Republicans wrap themselves in the squeaky clean holier than thou nonsense, so they suck way more. Republicans are so repressed they wind up taking wide stances in airport bathrooms. Dems tend to just have extra marital affairs, get caught sexting and pay for high class hookers like normal people.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Oh well, it's back to the food fight. So much for policy discussions. We need a way to short circuit the Trump/GOP tactics of personal defamation and identity politics. They know that their policies aren't popular, so they distract, distract, distract.

Here's one example. Even Republicans want to provide a path to citizenship for the undocumented... not to mention the killer Independent and overall numbers:







Hey kids, don't let the RNC "emo" you into voting against your self interest or the policies you like.


----------



## NYC Composer

...and so Trump pivoted, with Sean Hannity as the wind behind his sails.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump cannot win for the simple reason he is not pursuing the electoral vote.

Clinton is fundraising and making agreements is Silicon Valley.
Trump is in Mississippi with Nigel Farage.?

Looks like he is building a fan club instead of nailing down the electoral.

Fear not trembling Sheep.
The girl will save you from the schoolyard bully.


----------



## chimuelo

A real Liberal will be addressing the nation at 9ET according to my feeds.

This movement might work in 2020 but this will be shoved aside by wealthy white Liberals as they walk over a path of 100 dollar bills and multi million dollar checks.

The announcement the foundation no longer accepts foreign money in a Clinton win, is code for last chance to buy American weapons and legislation. Get em while they're hot.


----------



## JonFairhurst

And we wonder why Trump/GOP doesn't want to talk about policies...


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> We need a way to short circuit the Trump/GOP tactics of personal defamation


The left is just as guilty of "personal defamation" as the right, if not more. Al 8 years wee were called racist simply for opposing Obama. The left just couldn't believe that we would dislike him based on his policies rather than his skin color. And that's just one example - the left has defamation down to an art form.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Your example is quite different from what I'm talking about. I'm talking about individuals being dragged through the mud based on weak arguments. Consider that the September 11th attacks occurred under Bush/Rice and that Benghazi (2012) occurred under Obama/Hillary. Yes, a fringe blamed Bush, but the media and Democratic Party largely gave Bush a pass. On the other hand, Fox News hammered on Benghazi day after day for years. At the RNC you had delegates chanting "Lock her up!" That clearly takes it to another level.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Trump is now using the "I know you are but what am I" defense...

Anything to avoid a policy discussion.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-accuses-clinton-bullying-charges-racism-n637926


----------



## Soundhound

This is, of course, preposterous, ignorant and entirely unsupportable. But then, it's from the lunatic far right wing. So that's pretty much self defining.



Michael K. Bain said:


> The left is just as guilty of "personal defamation" as the right, if not more. Al 8 years wee were called racist simply for opposing Obama. The left just couldn't believe that we would dislike him based on his policies rather than his skin color. And that's just one example - the left has defamation down to an art form.


----------



## chimuelo

If Ambassador Stevens would have donated to the Foundation he could have had better security.


----------



## Soundhound

That's it young man. Go to your room, no dinner until you think about what you've done.



chimuelo said:


> If Ambassador Stevens would have donated to the Foundation he could have had better security.


----------



## chimuelo

C'mon man.
Folks need some humor during these Sheepfights....


----------



## Soundhound

Sorry, that last post was me laughing and joining in on the merriment. Even when I'm happy I'm a grouch apparently. 




chimuelo said:


> C'mon man.
> Folks need some humor during these Sheepfights....


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> If Ambassador Stevens would have donated to the Foundation he could have had better security.



He must have sent the request to the wrong email address.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> Your example is quite different from what I'm talking about. I'm talking about individuals being dragged through the mud based on weak arguments. Consider that the September 11th attacks occurred under Bush/Rice and that Benghazi (2012) occurred under Obama/Hillary. Yes, a fringe blamed Bush, but the media and Democratic Party largely gave Bush a pass. On the other hand, Fox News hammered on Benghazi day after day for years. At the RNC you had delegates chanting "Lock her up!" That clearly takes it to another level.


9/11 happened 8 months into Bush's first term - it was coming off 8 years of Clinton. He didn't get blamed, not because the media wanted to give him a pass, but because everyone knew his policies wouldn't have caused these coordinated attacks which of course were planned before he took office.

Benghazi happened 3 years and 8 months into Obama's admin. Hillary intentionally lied saying it was caused by a video, and then we discover she had bumbled and fumbled the whole incident from the get go.


----------



## chimuelo

JonFairhurst said:


> He must have sent the request to the wrong email address.



Huma didn't forward it from State to the Foundation so it went unanswered.
She screened all emails for HRC.
Two separate addresses.
One with a dollar sign the other for boring Federal workers always wasting time from more important duties.

God, Corp, Country.
Versus Foundation, Soros, Sid and State Department.


----------



## JonFairhurst

But Michael, facts don't matter in personal attacks. Obama gets called a Muslim, an immigrant, lazy, a monkey, etc. Oh, and he's responsible for every manufactured sin of Reverend Jeremiah Wright. 

Ben Carson essentially called Clinton the devil because as a college student, she studied Saul Alinsky.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...en-carson-said-about-hillary-clinton-saul-al/


----------



## chimuelo

Madonna started it when she said there's nothing wrong with the President being a Muslim.
Rumor has it Madonna tried to long tongue kiss the First Lady and Vallery Jarrett bitch slapped her.


----------



## Soundhound

Man being indoctrinated really causes problems. The Bush administration ignored clear warnings about 9/11 thanks to hubris and incompetence. It was their fault. There is no disagreement about this.



Michael K. Bain said:


> 9/11 happened 8 months into Bush's first term - it was coming off 8 years of Clinton. He didn't get blamed, not because the media wanted to give him a pass, but because everyone knew his policies wouldn't have caused these coordinated attacks which of course were planned before he took office.
> 
> Benghazi happened 3 years and 8 months into Obama's admin. Hillary intentionally lied saying it was caused by a video, and then we discover she had bumbled and fumbled the whole incident from the get go.



Benghazi is a non issue trumped up by the radical right wing. It is only considered an issue by people who are predisposed to hate Barack Obama. Whatever those reasons might be. I wonder what they might be? Regardless, many, many more people were killed on George W Bush's watch. The numbers are even remotely comparable.

Low information voters are invaluable to the right wing, their stock in trade.


----------



## chimuelo

So the Drug Gangs in Liberal neighborhoods that shoot innocent kids because they lack firearm skills are high information voters?


----------



## chimuelo

Bush was warned about the Taliban, I read about their rise in 1999 in a journalists report that couldn't get printed from AP.
Seems nobody wanted to hear about it, but sure could use a New Pearl Harbor.

Trouble with the Globalists is they won a great victory under G.Bush in 1991, and so did all of the countries that united.
USA had no equal, but pushed their luck to the point where Bin Ladens' death has become a victory.

You want to beat these evil scumbags you need something evil.
Political correctness won't allow that, so sit back and play whack a mole.
Don't get off the boat unless you're going to go all the way...........

Martin Sheen
Apocolyspe Now 1972 United Artists


----------



## chimuelo

Getting Americans to fight again unless we are attacked might be difficult.
To me this is tragic.
All those vets winning after years of vicious house to house IED crap, then we just walked away.
Obama and Clinton have had the very worst foreign policy I've ever seen from any nation, maybe the good they did is not known about yet.
Zen Master says we'll see....

In the old days anything that was red an moved was communist, requiring an attack.
Training videos from the Reagan era below....


----------



## Soundhound

Are we back in the comic relief portion of the show?



chimuelo said:


> So the Drug Gangs in Liberal neighborhoods that shoot innocent kids because they lack firearm skills are high information voters?


----------



## chimuelo

Well they are from wealthy white Liberal owned neighborhoods, formerly known as the great society.
Odd that everything Liberals say is always the exact opposite...

Great Society, Affordable Care Act, etc.etc..


----------



## Soundhound

Oh, I get it. Liberals created the nation's racial and class divide. Into the peyote once again, making shit up for lack of anything better to do...


----------



## chimuelo

Well I dont own section 8 property, I dont prosper from poverty.
Thats for campaign donors.
Hey you think Tony Rezco will get to purchase a pardon?
They kind of threw him under the bus with the Liberal Governor.
The Governor looks like he lost his appeal recently.
Might have to do the full 14 year sentance.


----------



## Soundhound

So... Blago is representative of your cabal of corrupt wealthy white liberals?

edit: And, list of wealthy white liberals profiting from Section 8 housing, if you could please, with appropriately coded links, natch.


----------



## chimuelo

Well he thought he was special.
Local gangsters need to keep in mind they can only avoid jail after they get to DC.
He tried to sell Obamas vacated position to the FBI.
Thats complacency.
So use to shaking down businesses and telling newspapers what they can print.
Rahms got style.
They say he is failing too but they havent checked out his bank accounts or portfolios.

Which is why I say Liberals are the most successful politicians.
Their legislation always fails but those zeros are added onto thier net worth.


----------



## Soundhound

As Napoleon said to Diane Keaton in Love and Death, "why is he reciting my credits?" Yes I'm familiar with Blagojevich, as much as I could stomach. The point is, if for you he is representative of the liberal wing of the democratic party, you and I aren't talking about the same people.


----------



## chimuelo

How many Swiss Francs you think Liberals will pay Assange to not expose thier Queen?
Hes sitting pretty.
Trump wants to pay him.
Liberals do too.
Difference is Liberals use tax payers money, not thier own.

Maybe Assange has dirt on Trump too.
But even if they have pictures of Trump having sex with farm animals voters will like him more.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> But Michael, facts don't matter in personal attacks. Obama gets called a Muslim, an immigrant, lazy, a monkey, etc. Oh, and he's responsible for every manufactured sin of Reverend Jeremiah Wright.



Facts don't matter to lefties who call me racist because I don't like Obama. The fact is that they don't know me. The fact is that I am not racist. The fact is that I oppose Obama because I stand opposite of him on most issues.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

one good picture tells more than a thousand words.

http://www.stuttmann-karikaturen.de/karikatur/6012


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> Man being indoctrinated really causes problems. The Bush administration ignored clear warnings about 9/11 thanks to hubris and incompetence. It was their fault. There is no disagreement about this.
> 
> 
> 
> Benghazi is a non issue trumped up by the radical right wing. It is only considered an issue by people who are predisposed to hate Barack Obama. Whatever those reasons might be. I wonder what they might be? Regardless, many, many more people were killed on George W Bush's watch. The numbers are even remotely comparable.
> 
> Low information voters are invaluable to the right wing, their stock in trade.



I had the exact same thought about Benghazi today, and argued it out with my wife, who said "Condi Rice isn't running for President." I said "so what?"


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> Facts don't matter to lefties who call me racist because I don't like Obama. The fact is that they don't know me. The fact is that I am not racist. The fact is that I oppose Obama because I stand opposite of him on most issues.


I'm a "lefty" and I've never called you racist. Just sayin'.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Well they are from wealthy white Liberal owned neighborhoods, formerly known as the great society.
> Odd that everything Liberals say is always the exact opposite...
> 
> Great Society, Affordable Care Act, etc.etc..


That is the biggest generalization and the dumbest statement I've ever seen from a smart man.


----------



## chimuelo

Totally agree but Soundhound is fun to mess with.
He enjoys humor on occasion too.
I try to redirect him when he starts in on the last century.

Hell I guess you didn't like my Ambassador/Foundation jab.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Michael K. Bain said:


> Facts don't matter to lefties who call me racist because I don't like Obama. The fact is that they don't know me. The fact is that I am not racist. The fact is that I oppose Obama because I stand opposite of him on most issues.



Let me get this straight. You're running for office as a Republican? And the DNC puts out daily talking points about how to smear you? And MSNBC runs a segment about you daily with theme music, graphics, and an animated intro? 

Okay, then the Democratic Party is just like the GOP and Fox News.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Totally agree but Soundhound is fun to mess with.
> He enjoys humor on occasion too.
> I try to redirect him when he starts in on the last century.
> 
> Hell I guess you didn't like my Ambassador/Foundation jab.


When you get called out, you pretend it's irony that you're putting out and lib'rals got no sensayuma. So here's a Dangerfield joke:

"My kid drives me crazy. I said to him "someday you'll have children of your own!". He said "so will you!" "

Now THAT'S funny.


----------



## chimuelo

Rodney D. is king, an idol of mine.

But my jokes are original. I strive to keep them vulgarity free too.

Since we are all racists according to Eric Holder, I shall try to remain patriotic.

2 Mexicans were Katty corner to each other on the strip and Tropicana.
Each had signs and were panhandling.
A roach coach pulled into the parking lot so they ran to get some chow.
One Mexican was counting coins for his 4 Tacos, and the other was fingering through a fat roll of greens.
The Mexican with crumbled 1s and coins said "Chinga Guey" how are getting the pinche gringos to give you so much dinero?
The Mexican with the roll of greens said let me see your sign.
It says I will work for food.
He laughs and shows him his sign...
It says I need gas money to get back to Tijuana....
Naturally he was getting nothing but bills.

Ankyu

I'm here all week......


----------



## Soundhound

Michael K. Bain said:


> Facts don't matter to lefties who call me racist because I don't like Obama.



I'm wondering what the size of that particular control group is? (I love terms like control group because I'm not a scientist, but I do love to cherry pick data from reports I don't really understand. Makes me feel smart.)



Michael K. Bain said:


> The fact is that I oppose Obama because I stand opposite of him on most issues.



Why does the image of Superman, hands on hips, cape flying in the breeze come to mind?


----------



## Soundhound

Think Trump can't still win this thing? Not so fast, rabbits. Americans (okay, Amuricans, but still...) RE-elected this member of the American Taliban:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/alabama-chief-justice-christianity


----------



## chimuelo

That's hilarious.

The problem with religion of any kind in Governance is in itself a contradiction.
Thou shall not kill.
Conservatives: 
Unless it's for its someone we see as dangerous. 
Then after the evil has been disposed of go to confession.
Just like the Sicilian Mafia.

I much prefer the Liberal approach of arming assassins in secret then denying involvement, but offering a diplomatic solution where tax payers are used to settle out for hundreds of billions.


----------



## Soundhound

Really? I lean much more toward the traditional Republican approach of owning the corporations that make money from wars, Dick Cheney/Halliburton, Bushes/Carlisle Group. Think of the paperwork headaches it avoids! Who wants to be worrying about coverups when you're bombing the living fuck out of a country for purely financial gain? Way too much stress.


----------



## Soundhound

And yes, religion needs to be kept as far away from government as I am kept from Uma Thurman. I'm talking far here.


----------



## NYC Composer

Arming assassins-like that liberal Reagan did....


----------



## chimuelo

Thank God for Liberal Reagan.
He actually defeated the enemies.
If it wasn't for him Liberalism would have a 100% failure rate.
Johnson, Carter, Clinton in Africa, Obama.....everywhere.

Shouldn't put troops in war zones and tell them not to offend anyone.


----------



## Soundhound

That's not how the Soviet Union fell apart.

D- in History Exam. See me!



chimuelo said:


> Thank God for Liberal Reagan.
> He actually defeated the enemies.


----------



## Soundhound

With apologies to Larry for posting without commenting. Unless this can be counted as a comment...?

https://thecontrarianblogger.wordpr...n-because-some-of-you-really-are-that-stupid/


----------



## chimuelo

Enlighten me on the Liberal version.

All I know is what racist Catholics taught us about the Liberal Reagan/Bush era.

We were so busy buying homes and working 2 Union jobs we might have missed Carlos Slims/MSNBC version of world history.

I must agree though Liberals are much more media savvy these days since there's no jobs, so learning from the television is a great way to use your 8 years of unemployment.


----------



## chimuelo

Hillary has a chance to wrap this race up by using the Foundation to aid Americans in Baton Rouge in the racist south, showing the billions they rake in to help people just isn't for anyone who isn't American.
1/10th of what one of her anti gay anti woman shieks from the Gulf would go a long way.

Oh well take a poll, see what millions of Americans in Liberal neighborhoods think first. Don't want to get them angry by helping white racists...


----------



## Soundhound

It's not the liberal version, it's what happened. As anyone who was awake and paying attention in the '80s knows, (remember, I'm ancient, and had already given up drugs and rock and roll by then) it was Gorbachev, Glasnost and Perestroika. The Soviet Union was collapsing under its own mismanagement and weight, and Gorbachev's gamble at regaining control by loosening the reigns didn't pay off, some think it backfired, some think he saw it coming. The idea that the useless and wasteful Reagan military build up had any significant effect is revisionist history that didn't take root until the 1990s with the rise of radical right wing media, Rush Limbaugh et. al., and the ascendance of the radical right wing of the Republican party led by Gingrich.



chimuelo said:


> Enlighten me on the Liberal version.
> 
> All I know is what racist Catholics taught us about the Liberal Reagan/Bush era.
> 
> We were so busy buying homes and working 2 Union jobs we might have missed Carlos Slims/MSNBC version of world history.
> 
> I must agree though Liberals are much more media savvy these days since there's no jobs, so learning from the television is a great way to use your 8 years of unemployment.


----------



## chimuelo

I always heard Jimmy Carter did it, then Charlie Wilson and Bin Laden, and now Russians defeated themselves because they ran out of other peoples to spend.

So I better tell all those Germans that thier real hero was Gorbachov.
She-itt....I was there and never saw so many Reagan loving Stetson wearing people singing in my life.

Thought I strayed into a Massive audition for Marshall McCloud.

I knew I shouldn't believe European media.
If I would have been Stateside I could have gotten the truth from Jennings and Rather.

1983-2011 was a rare economic boom. Didn't realize I did great and millions of Americans starved.
My wages froze in 1994 but we paid off our First house before vast right wing trickle down starting going global.

Hey maybe Hillary will bring us some jobs with Monica Lewinskys grandpa's strategies.
Sal Lewinsky didn't work out well in Russia or Venezuela, but Cuba is a shining city on the Ocean...


----------



## Soundhound

In a sense, Gorbachev was very much the hero. And of course people love what capitalism brings, at first. Until it starts eating its young (which it always will unless regulated to within an inch of its life). Then, not so much.

The Reagan military thing is a canard, had little if anything to do with it. It's a bedtime story for Amurican, alt-right toddlers. Of course for someone who grew up buying into the Patriot Act and the Contract With America (remember those deeply un-American piles of shit?), it's a golden moment, the second coming. Fed enough of that revisionist, self aggrandizing, flag waving, my-country-and my-god-rock,-yours-suck feel good fiction, then you're the perfect studio audience for someone like Donald Trump.


----------



## chimuelo

Us brown skinned racists do fine regardless of which wealthy whites are in charge.
Your version of history is cool though.

I have been lucky financially due to Chimueloism.
It's easy really.
Get out of bed, eat meals prepared from the day before, play keyboards until I have to work for 90 minutes, then repeat 3 times weekly.
Pictures of dead old white guys are handed to me and I can buy stuff that helps others out.
I feel guilty knowing millions suffer because they believe rich white Liberals and Conservatives.

So I'm with you.
Get rid of these rich whites, allow Hispanics a chance to run the economy.
What have you got to lose?


----------



## JonFairhurst

I heard a great, 1st person report recently of the attempted coup against Gorbachev by the hardliners. People in Moscow were enjoying newfound freedoms. Hardliners were pissed. Before long, people expected the coup. The coup happened, but it was not well coordinated and was a fiasco. Soon, the coup was put down and the people were emboldened and the hardliners had been dealt a decisive defeat.

Not sure what role Reagan played in all that.

That said, we do know that Putin was in the KGB and had been out of the country for the years preceding the coup. Some wonder if he would have had a different feeling if he had been among the Russians (in Moscow, anyway) who's attitudes shifted during those years. Putin saw the situation as a catastrophic loss for Russia. Then again, he might have been on the hardliners side all along.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_coup_d'état_attempt


----------



## Soundhound

Thanks that's a good read. I remember when it was happening Gorbachev was up against what had always seemed an immovable force, and I thought for sure they were going to disappear him. But he only got pushed out. I remember thinking the guy's made history and it's getting forgotten almost as soon as it happened.


----------



## NYC Composer

I sorta miss the Cold War. We didn't fear decapitation or mad suicide bombers as much, just simple nuclear annihilation.


----------



## chimuelo

I especially miss those daily drills of the bell going off and all of us kiddies hid under our wooden desks safe from the mushroom cloud.
But with ISIS guys we can stop them by citing the verses from the Koran.
Ive memorized about a dozen and carry a Koran in case armed gunmen show up in a Liberal gun free zone.
Chance favors the prepared mind.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'll bet you own no firearms Jimmy, so you're screwed no matter what kind of zone. Anyway, you'd probably get mowed down in the crossfire.

Actually I've decided I'm less anti-militias then I used to be. Them boys need an outlet that isn't beating the wife , kicking the dawg or yelling at the coach during kids' little league games.


----------



## chimuelo

30 06, 410 and a 12 guauge.
After Dallas I thought Id be patriotic and help boost politicians pension funds.
Bought a large revolver that shoots 410 Triple 000 shells and 45 ACP.
Basically a trail gun and home defense.

First round is rock salt 2nd birdshot 3rd is 2 rounds of Triple 000 with 16 pellets for 12 inch patterns at 10 yards. Last 2 rounds are 45 ACP. Just in case its a nervous burglur the salt lets them know the door to leave is open, the longer they stay the more lethal the load.

My step daughter was quite the hottie so I never interferred with her mothers upbringing.
But I always made sure when her dates came by to fetch her I was cleaning my rifles.

All guns are used and maintained, only hunt Pheasant and Quail.
Skeet shooting and more recently nightime training with the giant revolver.
Squuezing the grip engages the laser so if I am still buzzed from Jager and Peyote I can spray the target.

I also beat women to try and understand the new Liberal muslim culture better.
Cant afford more than one slave, but beating one actually prepares them for brief breeding episodes.


----------



## NYC Composer

I stand corrected.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I sorta miss the Cold War. We didn't fear decapitation or mad suicide bombers as much, just simple nuclear annihilation.


I have thought that exact same thought. But then, I'd rather be dead than live under ISIS anyway.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'd rather be alive and ISIS be dead.


----------



## Soundhound

Ok Jimmy, I'll bite!

When I first saw my goddaughter, when we moved out to LA, she was 3 years old and the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. She grew up to almost 6', played power forward in high school is basically a Beyonce lookalike, smart as a whip and a total sweetheart. When she was a pre-teen her father was getting pretty nervous, we used to joke that when the boys started visiting he was going to be sitting on the front porch with his shotgun. He didn't though. He thinks guns should be as hard to get as they are in Europe. I think they should be illegal, until we as a society get the gun poison out of our system, get them out of rampant circulation, and learn how to use them responsibility. Could take a loooooooong time. At that point they should be allowed only if you can prove a real need for them, and self protection doesn't count as a need. That's what police are for. Which doesn't sound very helpful the way the police are gunning down innocent people I know, but it's the only system that makes sense. Fix that, don't arm the population as a whole. An armed citizenry is an insane idea.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I'd rather be alive and ISIS be dead.


Well, yes, that would be my preferred status.


----------



## chimuelo

Hunting is why I have those guns.
Someday the trucks might stop rolling like we saw 80 years ago.
Natural disasters might occur.
Chance favors a prepared mind versus a person dependent on an absentee landlord.

Police do not protect anyone.
They simply come by and clean up the mess.
I get pulled over by police at least a few times a year. They see a Cadillac DTS @ 0400 hours it's an easy 1500 USD DUI.
But once they see my gear and talk to me they know it's a No Joy, in other words no money as I abide the law.

European Gun Laws have been pretty much the same for centuries.
Kings and Queens, and those who provide security can carry arms.
Commoners do not need firearms.
It seems to be OK with them.

Don't care for assault style weapons being so easy to get.
But as we look back to the wealthy whites and thier Super Majority we know these fake Liberals are cowards, losers and self serving bureaucrats more concerned with personal gain.
Watch when Hillary wins she won't do Jack shit except more symbolic gestures and unenforceable liberal goo.

Will she urge, stand and call for more gun free zones?

Declare martial law and disarm Americans.
I would obey if I believed it would end violent crime.
But I don't see Liberals turning in thier weapons.
I wish they would learn how to shoot better though.
Another innocent mother gunned down in Chicago, gun free zone naturally.


----------



## Soundhound

I think we should start by having everyone give up their guns. What a good experiment! Let's try if for 10 years and see if things get better. If you need a gun for survival, to eat, if you have no other way to get food, then I guess you get to keep them. If not, find another hobby for 10 years, it won't kill you. Try needlepoint, very challenging as I understand it. 

No martial law required, no black helicopters, though those things are badass and lots of fun. Just repeal the 2nd amendment (I know I know it'll never happen, but let's try). With the 2nd amendment gone, everyone turns in their guns. Everyone who's not a criminal and/or an asshole, that is. Then we give it 10 years, 5 years, 2 years really should be enough to see if it helps. And you know what, it'll be completely amazing (doing my best Trump here...) it'll be incredible. Gun violence will go down, a lot (this Trump channeling is fun, try it!). If nothing changes, fine, we get the second amendment back and continue on the road to the Thunderdome that the Repbulicans have been leading us to for the last 50 years. But we won't need it back, because I bet it would work. In the words of the world's most hilarious combover, what have we got to lose? Answer: nothing.


----------



## chimuelo

Who will regulate wildlife?
Do you even know the importance of Hunters and Fish and Game regulations?
This is not a hobby it's a long standing tradition and one of the best naturalization programs in the civilized world.
I'm a conservationist, was brought up this way. The NRA was once a truly important organization that worked with citizens and Federal Agencies.
Actually brought the First laws of mandatory registration.
But like anything that starts becoming political, it becomes poisoned by corruption and money.

But I actually despise concealed weapons, and Military ammo as it's sole purpose is tissue damage and concealment is deception of lethality.
My pistol is large, but an excellent choice for Wolves. It cannot be concealed. It's also a challenge to nail a Quail or Chuckerbird.

I would love if concealed weapons were illegal, and Military weapons be for strictly military personnel.

But when was the last time a registered hunter killed kids in school or shot harmless unarmed LBGT folks just enjoying themselves.

Throw out the bathwater but keep the baby.
I would even allow storage of my guns by Feds until hunting season.
Or just a trek through Wolf and Bear areas when camping at Tahoe.

But nothing gets done by establishment politicians.
Thier goal is to stay elected.
A State would back a great start.
Offer citizens money for weapons, tax incentives in exchange for real gun free zones.
Not the fake Liberal gun free zones.
Everything Liberals involve themselves in is based on lies and deceptions.
I could cite dozens that are contradictory in terms and results.
Even Social Security has become a criminal act.
There's no fund/lockbox.
It's a Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme.
Liberals and Conservatives should be exiled to the Aleutians.


----------



## Soundhound

Let the gvmt regulate wildlife. All kinds of things are long standing traditions, some of them have had bad consequences, so out with them. I know people have emotional attachments to guns, but, well, too bad. I'm a die hard Knicks fan, I have an emotional attachment to them. If everyone's safety meant I couldn't watch the Knicks anymore (stay with me here, it's an exaggerated example) I would be fine with it. I would not be happy, but I'd be fine with it.

I know, I haven't thought about this enough. But my thought is get rid of guns until we get over our love of them, then we can have them back.


----------



## chimuelo

Not this Government.
Maybe the next one.
After what Ive seen, 6 years to get public information, DOJ with secret runway meetings, an FBI that couldnt find a hooker a whore house.
Secret Service Agents cant even screen a fake deaf translator in S.Africa?
I need to see an resemblence of some discipline first.

Otherwise they can steal, lie and cheat all they want, just leave me alone while you sell legislation and favor.


----------



## Soundhound

You go to life with the government you have, not the government you'd like to you have, to paraphrase an admittedly preposterous source. I'd rather have an incompetent government and an unarmed citizenry than an incompetent government and an armed citizenry.


----------



## chimuelo

Im happy with lying Liberals making hundreds of millions, and an armed citizenry.
I hunt for 1 day 3 bird limit once a year.
The sight of AR15s and guys with ankle holsters chaps my ass.

I dislike that as much as you, but sadly I dislike self serving globalist elites even more.

With any luck we'll get rid of these wanna be kings and queens and see economic growth rather than this 1.1% El Salvadorian shit.

I miss a good economy so bad Id give up my guns and buy Quail for just 2 years of 6% growth.

Liberals are expensive and fail at everything they do.
What have we got to loose?


----------



## Soundhound

You really can stay on script Jimmy. I don't buy it, and your right wing slip is always showing under that dress, but your stamina is admirable!


----------



## chimuelo

Ankyu.

If Conservatives were to try their tactics on me they would be reminded of a littony of whackos I find to be con artists too.

I consider both parties equally worthless.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy-"liberals" gunned down that mother??? 

What scares me is the possibility that you believe some of the crazyass offensive shit you sometimes write.


----------



## chimuelo

Of course I dont.
But I dont see the media saying anything, yet Gabby Giffords tragedy was branded as Tea Party.
Charleston gunman was a Conservative.
Truth is these are cowardly murderers that carry out thier haneous acts.
I concluded it was Liberals since gang members dont fit the Romney Bush mold very well.
Definately not Trump supporters.


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't think murderers are real political, at least not about the electoral process.


----------



## chimuelo

Agreed.
But if I were a Chicago politivian. I would round these criminals up and servevthe community.
Lookingvthe other way while collecting a check makes me angry.
Rahm even buried an investigation so he could release the information once he won the election.
Kind of like Obama care.
Kind of like the State Department covering for the entitled wealthy Liberal Queen.

These people serve themselves only.
Their wealth stinks.


----------



## NYC Composer

I want martial law or something like it. Pretty liberal, eh?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hillary will win this election imo. Very strong in the betting. But Batz alluded to it earlier. You have now opened Pandoras Box. There's no going back and regardless of who wins this time, the inevitable will happen in the future when people stand back from the brink in horror and realise what is happening to their country.
It's happened here in the UK. There is still talk by stupid minded people that seemingly ignore a vote, that somehow the UK will try and establish talks with the EU that will allow them to remain in the EU on their terms. That could happen of course, but then you'll get a civil war on your hands. The party that tried to instigate such a thing would never get elected again. Why would anyone in their right mind want such a thing in the first place. Bonkers.
You would wind up listening to people like mad Little Nicola, whose every fourth word is Tories, ignoring the fact that deficits actually mean something.


----------



## NYC Composer

Did you actually vote, Baron?


----------



## Baron Greuner

No I never vote for anything Larry. I watch and constantly laugh at simple minded people that actually think anything they vote for will make a difference to them in the long run.

Take the USA. You had a guy in there for 8 years who made a bollocks with Iraq. Everyone knew the New York 911 was nothing to do with Iraq. So you get rid of conservatives only to replace them with another bollocks for the next 8 years who does the exact opposite. Nothing.

Radical!!! You have to be radical! You have to give radical views a chance. Radical views are only radical until they become the establishment.

They shifted rapidly away from radical views here and didn't even allow a leadership vote. Frightened them too much. But whatever they do, the second people wake up and understand they are not actually doing anything and never will, then they need to vote outside the box in great numbers, instead of back and forth to the same old worn out politicians. These politicians don't give a shit about what anyone wants. Once that's understood, then maybe I'll vote.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron, I'm delighted to hear you embrace radicalism! As the radical liberals come to power in dear old Blighty, you'll probably be lifting a fine glass of whiskey in a toast of utter joy.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Either that or I'll be driving a Porsche Carrera S up their assholes.

Or something similar.


----------



## NYC Composer

At least the the auto anal assaults on liberals and the watching and constantly laughing at naive fools keep you busy. Otherwise you might be forced to take some sort of action. That would be untenable.

Hey, how was the long drive?


----------



## Baron Greuner

The long drive was fantastic because the scenery of Scandinavia is very different to here in England. It's more like Scotland, but not the same really. The car is very different to a Carrera S. I actually sold the Carrera S and then realised after a few weeks I wish I hadn't done that. Can't beat a Porsche flat 6 engine. The noise is like a Beethoven symphony. But we also sold the Mercedes SLK.
Then the owner of a local business that I knew bought a GTS and put his Carrera S up for sale. I knew he had bought the Carrera S from new (early 997 3.8) and had it fully packed. Think it cost around £80/85K back then with all the extras. So I went down and bought it out from under another bloke who was umming and ahhing. So now I'm back to driving this one and an old V6 Golf most of the time and I'm not sure about the 718 S. We found it a bit small that was the trouble. Someone wants to buy it at more than the new price because they don't want to wait for delivery, so I might think about that for a few days.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm glad you had a great drive.

Me, I take the subway. I rent cars occasionally. Think Honda Accord-when I'm feeling profligate.


----------



## chimuelo

Bought a Gran Marquis couple years ago since Law Enforcement and Feds have them.
Nice trunk size and the idea was I looked like FBI so I'd be OK when in Chicago or St.Louis.
Didn't dream Police would become targets from the Holder Sharpton programs. Big mistake.
So I ditched it for A Cadillac DTS.
Now I lean to the right while driving and the brothas give me a nod instead of cold stare.
Last night we checked out a new Array and Sidechain Stereo Tube Compressor.

And I apologise for getting crazy but I have family in Chicago so every innocent getting gunned down hits home.
Also they arrested 2 thugs and I hope they go where the sun don't shine.

Martial Law is what's needed.
It's 'll like Fallujah there.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Oh Christ Jimmy's got a Range Rover! Tally Ho! Tally Ho! 

Jimmy do you wear green wellies? WTF are you doing with that breeze block? Haha!

How do you post photos? No idea. We're going out this afternoon and I'll post some photos.


----------



## chimuelo

Bassist is the Range Rover.
I'm the Cadillac DTS.
Fancy new Phone takes pictures Baron.
Stereo Tube Compressor on table top.
Been trying out recording equipment for the live rig.
A/B'd the Bellari next to a Manley ELOP. Both have terrific results.
Even put different tubes in the Leslie.
NOS RCA 12AT7. Maximum drive and gain.
The stock Tubes are low energy.


----------



## Soundhound

They were both fans of right wing anti-govmt crap. That's one of the myriad dangers of this government-is-the-problem propaganda, it gives unstable people a very good reason (they think) to act. 



chimuelo said:


> Of course I dont.
> But I dont see the media saying anything, yet Gabby Giffords tragedy was branded as Tea Party.
> Charleston gunman was a Conservative.
> Truth is these are cowardly murderers that carry out thier haneous acts.
> I concluded it was Liberals since gang members dont fit the Romney Bush mold very well.
> Definately not Trump supporters.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Okay, Chim, I just read your Hillary policy responses.

Lots in there, thanks for answering.

In general I'm less cynical than you are, and as you know I disagree that Democrats are anywhere near as bad as Republicans (you have to look at who's bribing them if you're going to be that cynical!). But I say all the time that the first step to solving all the problems of the world is to get the money out of our elections. I think we agree about that.


----------



## chimuelo

Newest revelations I should add.
I believe HRC has been comprimised by hackers.
The Clintons have shown they'll stop at nothing to protect thier ambitions.
This makes them targets for blackmail.
The corporations they did business with were not vetted, they took money and what we see so far is pretty shady crap.
The thousands of bleach bit emails must be terribly damaging if what State is finally showing us are "legal" documents.

My son is old enough to vote now and he actually is frustrated.
Colin K. from the 49rs is a Reno-Tahoe favorite and native. His sentiments reflect my son and his entire crew, including all of thier giflfriends.

I admire Huma A. for being the smartest person who made things happen. Very good skills at organizing at her focus at making things difficult easy is impressive.
Getting rid of her useless freak boy husband shows real courage.

I wish she was running. A real class act who knows far more about politics than Clinton and Trump combined.


----------



## NYC Composer

And what, in your view, ARE their ambitions?

And again-what, in your view, is Trump's ambition? I'd say "the Trumps" but Melania's been relegated to the bench and given an occasional non-speaking role in this play ...


----------



## chimuelo

I think they're greedy and everytime they are seen to bring people together their fees for services far exceeds thier role of public service.
And again - I dont plan on voting for Trump, so I dont care what he says, although his exposure of the rigged corrupt system is appreciated.
The fact a Federal Judge has to order John Kerry, another billionaire Liberal, to release 6 year old State Department records, which are suppose to be public, prooves he is exactly right.

Gary Johnson gets my vote over these 2 "candidates" with zero remorse.
HRC is the epitomy or everything undemocratic I have seen.
Syrian refugees are a tragedy but just reveals how a small group of people decide whats best for us without even considering our opinion.
I can understand the complete elitist position which infers we arent well enough informed to make decisions.
But we werent the stupid mother f....ers who created the problem in the first place.
These elites have gone from start to finish on the ACA, Iran now Syria bypassing voters concerns at every turn.
Phuckem....


----------



## JonFairhurst

When the person running against Trump is accused of being greedy.


----------



## NYC Composer

What are they greedy about? Presidents and Cabinet members cash in when they leave. They write books, they give expensive speeches, they sit on boards, they gave foundations, those foundations pay their expenses or another entity does.

Do you have any evidence that they are skimming actual cash from the CGI above and beyond whatever travel, accommodations, etc?


----------



## Soundhound

The right wing propaganda machine is the greatest advertising agency in the history of man. John Kerry, a decorated war hero, runs against George W Bush who's daddy kept him out of Vietnam, and who then went awol from the national guard, because he was a drunk. Kerry winds up having to fight suspicions generated by right wing groups that he didn't deserve his purple heart. Donald Trump, the country's most famous con artist, pals with Vladimir putin, $650 million in debt, runs against Hillary Clinton whose foundation has been doing incredible humanitarian work around the globe for decades. And Clinton has to defend herself against charges of selling influence. It's really amazing.


----------



## chimuelo

Good thing baby boomers are going to be gone from our system.
Thier corruption and stench from lies is coming to an end.
No more division using race, no more foreign investors.

Colin K. was the tip of the iceberg, the point of the spear.
I look forward to the new America and the memory of endless cackling from believers of the 2 self serving wings who laugh at the Sheepfigjts.

Looking forward to 2020.
This 4 year period will end abruptly regardless of which bull shit wing wins this November.


----------



## Soundhound

As Tony Soprano said, whadaya you got crystal balls?



chimuelo said:


> Good thing baby boomers are going to be gone from our system.
> Thier corruption and stench from lies is coming to an end.
> No more division using race, no more foreign investors.
> 
> Colin P. was the tip of the iceberg, the point of the spear.
> I look forward to the new America and the memory of endless cackling from believers of the 2 self serving wings who laugh at the Sheepfigjts.
> 
> Looking forward to 2020.
> This 4 year period will end abruptly regardless of which bull shit wing wins this November.


----------



## chimuelo

Here's what I am 100% behind and give to monthly.
She is labeled as left wing, but yuze guys are lost in your false worshipping of the wealthiest whites.
She served in Iraq, not like Clinton, Pelosi, Obama, Reid, Gore, Edwards, Bush, Wolfowitz, Cheney.
So I must be a left wing fanatic?
But wait I have been told I am a right wing racist.....lol.
She's a Hindu too. I guess I'm really a whack job now.
Read and weep gentlemen. This is the future of America.
Not the wealthy Fake Liberals or Conservatives who waste trillions building somebody else's country.
__________________________________


Aloha Chimuelo (Star of Stage & Screen)....

Powerful special interests have an outsized voice in our political system. That isn’t new information, but it is making it harder and harder to advance ideas that will combat things like income inequality or criminal justice reform.

What we need is a campaign finance system that empowers people and their voices in our democracy, instead of a handful of wealthy billionaires who can afford to write checks.

That’s why I’ve fought to eliminate Super PACs and amplify small donations to candidates who agree to lower contribution limits. In addition, I’ve worked to stop coordination between candidates and outside spending groups and require so-called “dark money” groups to disclose their donors immediately.

In the House, I will stand with my friend Bernie Sanders and continue to fight for campaign finance reform.

*Contribute $38 to our re-election campaign before the deadline on Wednesday and I will continue our work to reform this nation’s broken campaign finance laws in Congress.*

People are rightly frustrated that their voices are being drowned out by the desires of wealthy donors and politicians who aren’t listening.

It’s time to deliver for the American people a campaign finance system that restores the value of one person, one vote — and give them an equal say in what happens in Washington.

That’s the simplest and most effective way to end the culture of greed and corruption that exists in Congress.

Thank you for your continued support and friendship.

Aloha,

Tulsi

__________________________________

They're started to drop thier price.
Words out, Chimuelo pays.
Use to be 100 until Bernie cowered to the wealthy Liberals by giving her a pass in the debates.
Dropped it to 50.
Now thankfully it's 38.

As Bill Clinton says "I got bills to pay."


----------



## Soundhound

She seems great. More like her! Sign me up! 

Of course, since I think (almost) every Republican should be in jail or in the nuthouse, you assume that I'm a fan of every Democrat. Nuance, Jimmy! Complexity!


----------



## chimuelo

Well I also send money to T. Canova of Florida.
I want the Foundations darling removed immediately.
Don't even know which wing he is?

Speaking of Wings...
KFC is using 0 Trans Fat Oil for thier chicken, extra crispy.
I cheat once a week with Rib Plates, White Castle, Steak & Shake, etc.

This week KFC has the Hillary Special.

5.99 for 2 side dishes.

A small breast
2 huge thighs
And 2 left wings........


Ankyu


----------



## Soundhound

Not funny! Speaking as a comedy writer, not as a lefty mind you. Now the Donald Trump statue with the micropenis, THAT was funny.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

I'll second that as a lefty.


----------



## chimuelo

As a small penised Transexual Syrian refugee.........I respectfully disagree.


----------



## Soundhound

There but for the grace of god...


----------



## chimuelo

OMG Trump has accepted invitation to see Mexican President.
Perhaps El Chapo hooked up thier President with remaining bleach bit emails that everyone has read but us?
Guess they see a President Trump.
Those damn emails...

Mexican Lives Matter protestors have sworn to storm the Palace.....


----------



## JonFairhurst

"Um. Señor Presidenty. What exactly does a president do? I'm asking for a friend..."


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm going to stand with Bernie and Tulsi after this election if they really try to move to remove money from politics. I still want a 5 year moratorium on lobbying as well, for ex officeholders.


----------



## chimuelo

Once the public gets involved SCOTUS and Congress will be forced to act.
Public Union money brought us Citizens united.
Seeing both of those removed is where we start.
When I see unions, tax payers subsidize, give 80 million every 2 years then cry they have no money for music or shop class infuriates me.
5 years is fine too.
They should enforce the 2 year law first.
I can show you dozens of politicians who leave and go to K Street after a few months.

Strength & Honor
Maximus Desimus Meridius
80 BC Rome


----------



## NYC Composer

In my opinion, one of the most challenging problems for African Americans has been a dearth of extremely visible and charismatic individual leaders. Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, nor even Corey Booker- are not MLK. John Lewis and Elijah Cummings are good men, but they are not young. I think Sharpton is a smart man but he started off badly. Jesse was never charismatic enough. Cory Booker's too slick. it's a puzzle-if Black Lives Matter is going to, well, matter, they're going to need a singular face.

I feel the same way about a movement to remove money from politics, and I think the primary fight gave Bernie the visibility. He and Warren and maybe Gabbard, but I think Bernie has to be the face.


----------



## chimuelo

Kanye West and his GOP brother Col. Allen West are an interesting option.

Lawsuit against the DNC was served by a racist hispanic and white supremecist.
Another person defying the establishment turns up dead.
Lawsuit is stalled in Federal Court, has lots of other lawsuits for voter fraud in California where Bernie had huge support but somehow lost.
Really trippy conspiracy stuff but sure has factual documentation.
Seems folks who try to stop wealthy white Liberals experience lots of bad luck.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/in-...s-to-video-featuring-now-dead-lawsuit-server/


----------



## NYC Composer

The Prez of Mexico is huevos-challenged.


----------



## chimuelo

He was just being cordial by inviting both candidates.
Never thinking either would show up he shit his pants when Trump said what time.


----------



## NYC Composer

Somebody shits on your country and you invite them down for a cordial chat, then mildly scold him in the press=no huevos to me, and I'll bet dollars to donuts his already lousy popularity number plunge.


----------



## chimuelo

Guess he figured he had it coming...

His numbers are already bad.
But these guys don't run the country.
The Generals and the billionaires do, and they have always turned a blind eye to the narco trafficking.
Can't blame them really.
There's lots of drug gangs coming back and forth and billions are being made.
Trumps the only guy who is got balls enough to put these violent drug dealers on notice.
Totally different approach from Holder/Obamas arming them to kill each other.
That works in Chicago, LA, Baltimore, etc. but not in Mexico.

El Chapo had one of the DOJs 50 Caliber sniper rifles when they nabbed him.

But he did look weak by the Donald.

Trumps always got that jacked off face.
Even his Twitter pic has that Mr.T snarl.


----------



## Soundhound

Trump is an idiot. Kind of hard to go beyond that at this point.


----------



## chimuelo

And Clinton is a liar and globalist who sold out Americans to please investors with Corporate intetests.

We're screwed.


----------



## Soundhound

Stay on subject. A little discipline please. Trump is an idiot.


----------



## chimuelo

The idiot who is out smarting media and lifelong career globalist politicians.


----------



## NYC Composer

.....for charity. Horrid globalist-she met with world leaders, famous people and industrialists.


----------



## chimuelo

She shook them down for cash.
Betrayed the Human Rights cause just for some more money and a down payment of future tax loopholes and insider tips for investors.
But yes, its cool to line your pockets as long as the children were saved.
Puppies, kittens, liberals in ghettos will just have to wait.
Investors first...


----------



## NYC Composer

You need some new lines.


----------



## NYC Composer

A Deportation Force. Mmm. The only softening that went on here occurred in the nether regions of El Presidente de Mexico.


----------



## chimuelo

Well a deportation force will scare even more lazy worshippers of wealthy Liberals to at least get off thier asses to vote.
The hands up dont loot tactics last election cycle didnt work.
Go for Hillarys hispanics with visions of doors being kicked in by Hilter Youth groups.

They're going to put ch'all back in chains.
Joe Biden 2012 to his blacks.


----------



## chimuelo

Heres something to get yuze guys out to vote for the Corporate/Bankers pick.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, you ought to be more interested in "saving the world from Trump." The man is suggesting the formation of a new Gestapo. You talk a lot about race politics in your "I'm being dry and ironic but it's all true" mode, so here's mine- I grew up with stories of Krystalnacht, pogroms and roundups of Jews from all over Europe who were put in cattle cars. MY people had a saying-"keep your bag packed and your passport up to date."
Many German Jews never believed it would happen to them. They were wrong.

Comparatively, I don't give a shit what sort of boondoggles she's involved in. She's not talking roundups or ideological purity tests and she's not a dropout from Clown College-but hey, you vote for Gary Johnson or mail it in for Mickey Mouse. Stay on the sidelines because you ideologically can't vote to keep him out of office-or maybe I can buy you a fiddle and you can fiddle away while your moron President tries to force our largest trading partner to pay for an unnecessary Great Wall of Mexico and your country becomes Saudi Arabia.


----------



## chimuelo

Well Larry this race has been over for a long time.
White House DOJ and State Dept put on a good show.
Bill and DJT put this together so there would be a worse alternative than Hillary.
Call it conspiracy but Trump isnt even going after the electoral vote which is what is needed to win.

Would you believe this race to be more credible if Trump and Rodman went to N.Korea together?

I can relate to your fears but dont sweat it.
The only folks rounded up here are Hillarys Super Predators.
Many are getting released so they can vote for her, letting her know theres no hard feelings.


----------



## NYC Composer

Use any rhetorical devices you want, in your heart you know this guy is very very bad news and worse than Clinton.
She's politics as usual. He's a narcissist, a race baiter and a complete wild card who is inches away from the most powerful position in the world. I never said this about Mitt Romney, nor John McCain, not Bob Dole nor either Bush.
Not even Nixon.

Think this speech was Conway's idea? Nope. He doesn't listen to anyone, because he's the smartest guy in any room. Mmm.


----------



## chimuelo

I agree and relax.
The race is over, its hers and has been all along.
He could say anything and the sheep will cheer.
Hillary was rambling on about how she is going after the middle class.
I watched her sheep cheer.
Its all about making this race appear real now..
Real campaign managers arent from news organizations or known as pollsters.
They are running ground campaigns getting electoral votes.
Thats only happening on Palomo/Golden Sachs candidates choice.
Gotta keep those polls tight until October.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Well Larry this race has been over for a long time.
> White House DOJ and State Dept put on a good show.
> Bill and DJT put this together so there would be a worse alternative than Hillary.
> Call it conspiracy but Trump isnt even going after the electoral vote which is what is needed to win.


That is exactly what's going on. It's as obvious as the nose on Mr. D's face


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Stay on the sidelines because you ideologically can't vote to keep him out of office-or maybe I can buy you a fiddle and you can fiddle away while your moron President tries to force our largest trading partner to pay for an unnecessary Great Wall of Mexico and your country becomes Saudi Arabia.


You can buy me a fiddle as well; maybe Sweetwater has a good two-for-1 sale going. I'm not voting for the dangerous lunatic or the dangerous criminal, either. I'm voting for someone I would actually want to be pres. Isn't that the idea of voting?


----------



## Soundhound

Let's play fill in the blanks, with real names and facts. Always more fun for the audience playing along at home!



chimuelo said:


> She shook them down for cash.



Who, how, when.



chimuelo said:


> Betrayed the Human Rights cause just for some more money and a down payment of future tax loopholes and insider tips for investors.



Ditto.



chimuelo said:


> But yes, its cool to line your pockets as long as the children were saved.



One mo time.

I got $50 sitting here (on the unpacked boxes in our new living room) that says none of these questions will be answered. Don't even feel like I need to blow on the dice.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Should we ask the moderators to change the thread title to "El año del payaso"?

On the other hand, given his policies and tactics, maybe we should do away with the tilde and go with "El ano del payaso." Yeah, that's a better fit.

Here are the translations:
https://www.google.com/search?num=1...j2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.wh2bVr2eMOs

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...payaso translation&aqs=chrome..69i57.3670j0j7


----------



## chimuelo

Actually hope the Corporations Kings Queens Banks and Billionaires allow Johnson into the debates.
Someone who actually turned a State around during the Liberal regulation era of 1% growth.
Investors might be embarrassed by having a success story to deal with.


----------



## chimuelo

Soundhound, I can answer the first question but want to see the bleach bit yoga, saving children, wedding emails first.
Then better specifics on which dictator or CEO or billionaire was shook down first.
Sicilian crime families often got protection money from the biggest store or business first.
After that all others just required a knock on the door.


----------



## Soundhound

Did Johnson do that? He's a libertarian of course so that means an excellent supply of unvaccinated children and a gun in every grade school locker. Phhhhht, the libertarian thing is dumb dumb dumb.

Jerry Brown on the other hand is a liberal from when liberals were liberals and he's been kicking ass in California.



chimuelo said:


> Actually hope the Corporations Kings Queens Banks and Billionaires allow Johnson into the debates.
> Someone who actually turned a State around during the Liberal regulation era of 1% growth.
> Investors might be embarrassed by having a success story to deal with.


----------



## Soundhound

When the facts and proof surface, I'll be right here. but for the moment I'm taking that 1/2 benjamin and buying steaks to eat on the boxes tonight.



chimuelo said:


> Soundhound, I can answer the first question but want to see the bleach bit yoga, saving children, wedding emails first.
> Then better specifics on which dictator or CEO or billionaire was shook down first.
> Sicilian crime families often got protection money from the biggest store or business first.
> After that all others just required a knock on the door.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Hey everybody, let's make like Kansas, cut taxes, and tank the economy.

Or we could make like California and Oregon, have a progressive agenda, raise taxes, and boost the economy.

But the real winner is Bernie Sanders who enjoyed a Double-Double burger.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/17/one-state-raised-taxes-the-other-cut-them-guess-which-one-is-in-recession/


----------



## chimuelo

God cursed Kansas politicians for allowing Obama's father n law to set up bird killing Wind Mills so that's different.

Colleges offering Global Warming degrees should also require these new Scientists to study Oceanography and Species Migration so the next time they put thousands of species killing towers somewhere they already know the damage it might incur in thier quest to lower the temperature.

I would rather they put these massive windmills facing west out in the Pacific so CO2 from American Coal burning in China blows it back thier way.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Is David Clarke the Sheriff in a Milwaukee county?


----------



## chimuelo

Milwaukee is a Liberal city but like some other ghettos is located in a county sharing the same name.
St. Louis is also a Liberal town with the county named St.Louis.
Appears the Sheriff is a racist because he is a member of the GOP and is one the many registered KKK members supporting Trump.
Liberals call him race traitor as the DNC views blacks that stray from thier plantations as traitors.
Lincoln called escaped slaves freedom fighters but the DNC called Lincoln a racist.
Confusing I know.
But whenever the Liberals control the Federal agencies patriotic Americans backing them must follow DOJ guidelines by referring to everyone as racists.
When Tre Goudy becomes Attorney General laws will once again be enforced, wealthy whites will be held accountable, and guys like Sherriff Clark will try and remove Liberal rioters looters and criminals off the streets.
He will still be a race traitor and KKK member, but probably wont be investigated, charged with crimes for removing dangerous Liberals from wealthy white Liberal owned ghettos.


----------



## NYC Composer

Gettin' a lot of tv time too. He's almost as tele-friendly as America's Sheriff, Arizonian Sheriff Joe Arpaio.


----------



## chimuelo

First time I heard Clark I was impressed as he wasnt frozen from political correctness.
Read about his area and found its blacks who overwhelming vote him back in office yet we only see rioters and gang members getting air time.
Law abiding folks who elect him get ZERO air time.

Once again media shows thier ratings driven incentives by use of ommission.

Sheriff Joe is a racist because he is white and oppresses people of color because they commit crimes.
But when racist GOP representatives take back control Liberals will be referred to as criminals again instead of victims.


----------



## NYC Composer

He also racially profiles defiantly and may be convicted of it. Likes playing God.

Btw, which rioters and gang members are getting big air time? You must have one of those special tinfoil tv antennas...


----------



## chimuelo

He wont be convicted because the DOJ lawyers pursuing him were ordered by a Federal Judge to go through re certification classes for lying.
Actually I watch YouTube not TV. Thats for old folks.
Youtube videos were of Liberals fighting each other over which buildings to burn.
Then one female victim who possibly graduated said to stop burning down stores because locals needed businesses open since they didnt have cars.
She suggested going into those "white suburbs" which are where black middle class hispanics asians whites indians all live together.
But never have probably been out of her Liberal ghetto she was unaware there are poor people everywhere and races get along live and work together.
Its only wealthy white Liberal owned ghettos that are predominantly black and infested by gangs drugs murders, etc.


----------



## NYC Composer

Old school, fine-but YouTube videos are not "air time", unless 10 million cute cat videos qualify as "air time" as well.


----------



## chimuelo

35 years of age is the recent cut off point for people watching TV with campaign ads and commercials.
I watch CNN for Parts Unknown Lisa Ling and in the mornings ocassionally Cuomo and Camerato.
But hate campaign ads followed by commercials.
The little emotican bully ads and stick figured over simplified TV ads are insulting.
But I understand when dealing with Liberal voters repitition is an invaluable tool, and race nuetral stick figures is less offensive for safe spaces and triggers of victimhood, etc.


----------



## chimuelo

Here's what I do as soon as coffee is ready.
Automating vocal effects and adding new material for yacht party, and outdoor concerts this weekend.

I do stop when birds chirp alerting me that the thread has a post.
It's routed through the IEMs seen on top of the i7 5775C ammo case DAW.

NO COMMERCIALS ALLOWED....


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> Milwaukee is a Liberal city but like some other ghettos is located in a county sharing the same name.
> St. Louis is also a Liberal town with the county named St.Louis.
> Appears the Sheriff is a racist because he is a member of the GOP and is one the many registered KKK members supporting Trump.
> Liberals call him race traitor as the DNC views blacks that stray from thier plantations as traitors.
> Lincoln called escaped slaves freedom fighters but the DNC called Lincoln a racist.
> Confusing I know.
> But whenever the Liberals control the Federal agencies patriotic Americans backing them must follow DOJ guidelines by referring to everyone as racists.
> When Tre Goudy becomes Attorney General laws will once again be enforced, wealthy whites will be held accountable, and guys like Sherriff Clark will try and remove Liberal rioters looters and criminals off the streets.
> He will still be a race traitor and KKK member, but probably wont be investigated, charged with crimes for removing dangerous Liberals from wealthy white Liberal owned ghettos.



Hahaha! 

I'm sure I've seen David Clarke on Fox. If it's the same guy, he's tremendous entertainment.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> Old school, fine-but YouTube videos are not "air time", unless 10 million cute cat videos qualify as "air time" as well.



You know this is becoming such an interesting point.

I can see a time when YouTube is easily accessible on your TV and many people switching to YouTube for their particular brand of news. And who can blame them?

The UK news channels are out of control a lot of the time because their fucking agendas have little or nothing to do with the real world and the real world is where people have to live. So you might as well watch YouTube and at least have the opportunity to pick your own brand of lunacy as opposed to Sky News for example, which is about as moronic as it gets.


----------



## chimuelo

Selective topics of interests, commercial free.
My favorite research is Archeology and the effect of CO2 on our Oceans.

My favorite legislation in the last 20 years was Obama finally declaring a massive section of Ocean surrounding Hawaii as a Marine Sanctuary.
Still trying to figure out if this was from racists over fishing the area or not.
But Obama will be remembered from this legislation far more than Iran, Egypt, Syria, ISIS, the ACA, etc.etc.etc.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I'm not sure in my lifetime who the worst President is you've ever had. Or the best. It's always difficult.

Obama is definitely not one of your best. And now your next President will be The Clinton Foundation. Or a complete loon. Very difficult for a foreigner like me to understand how a country with 325 million inhabitants can't wind up with at least 10 people from either party at the start of an election process, who are all worthy of being a President.

The guy I would like to have seen as President was Ben Carson. Him I liked. Very balanced with some good ideas. So what that he had moments of living in a dream world.


----------



## chimuelo

Bilderberg members decide.
Sheep are led to believe they are in control.
But at the conclusion of any election it's always about the money even when they say it isn't.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> IVery difficult for a foreigner like me to understand how a country with 325 million inhabitants can't wind up with at least 10 people from either party at the start of an election process, who are all worthy of being a President.
> 
> The guy I would like to have seen as President was Ben Carson. Him I liked. Very balanced with some good ideas. So what that he had moments of living in a dream world.



We had some people highly worthy of being the president at the beginning of the primaries. Problem is in fact that there were too many. The social conservatives spread their support primarily between Carson, Rubio and Cruz, while the nationalists only had the one candidate, Trump. If the social conservatives had been able to unite behind one guy, one of them would have defeated Trump and been the nominee.


----------



## Soundhound

The republican party has not had a good presidential candidate since... wait, hang on... I know it's around here somewhere. God I hate moving!!! Maybe it's in one of the boxes in the garage... Hang on....


----------



## JonFairhurst

I love that the Latinos for Trump guy warned that there would be "taco trucks on every corner." And that most people like that policy proposal.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/latinos-trump-founder-warns-taco-trucks-every-corner-n641976

In Portland, we have food "carts" (which are trucks or trailers that are in a fixed location) 600 of them, in fact. (Food "trucks", on the other hand, drive from place to place.) And our carts are not on corners. We have whole parking lots filled with them. It's awesome. Great, unique, inexpensive food.

http://www.fodors.com/news/photos/americas-best-food-truck-cities#!8-portland-oregon

When I was in NYC, we made a point to eat at The Halal Guys. Probably not a lot of Trump supporters in that line.







Is all politics local? Or is it really food based?


----------



## chimuelo

As a transsexual Syrian refugee I concur Halal Guys have great Lamb and the thier German Shepard roll up is fresh and excellent.
Halal Guys are regulars at the Humane Society.
They're required to answer a follow up questionnaire within 30 days, and when asked are you enjoying your Pet?
They always answered it was delicious.
Thinking it was a joke they laughed it off until after 3 years they noticed 47 pets were adopted......


----------



## JonFairhurst




----------



## JonFairhurst

Given that I prefer policy discussion to mud throwing, I offer this economic analysis of the implications of a taco truck on every corner. They estimate the creation of 9.6 million new jobs. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/02/the-national-economic-implications-of-a-taco-truck-on-every-corner/?tid=sm_fb

This made me hungry. It's lunch time!


----------



## chimuelo

JonFairhurst said:


> Given that I prefer policy discussion to mud throwing, I offer this economic analysis of the implications of a taco truck on every corner. They estimate the creation of 9.6 million new jobs.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/02/the-national-economic-implications-of-a-taco-truck-on-every-corner/?tid=sm_fb
> 
> This made me hungry. It's lunch time!



Awesomeness.
Been eating off of roach coaches forever.
I actually stop in Modesto, CA. everytime I visit LA or Bay area since its halfway between.
Mini Tacos made of Lengua with locally grown Anchilles Peppers are to die for.
They have a sheet of wax paper with grated Romano cheese they toss the trotillas up and down in.
4 for a dollar.
Sore dick deal....cant beat it.


----------



## JonFairhurst

If you're ever in Portland, I highly recommend Mi Mero Mole ( My kind of sauce, but it translates best to My cup of tea.) They make tacos de guisado. Guisado is like a stew. It's Mexico City street food. They offer lengua, goat, and even duck hearts as well as other delicacies. This isn't a cart. It's a small stand-style restaurant. This is a good thing, as they have a liquor license and offer shots of rare tequilas. Or you can get Mexican Coke. S'all good. And it's quite inexpensive.

http://mmmtacospdx.com/


----------



## JonFairhurst

Btw, I was planning to swim at lunch. But all this taco truck talk made me hungry. No trucks here in the 'burbs. (Gee, thanks Trump.) So I went to Chipotle instead. Nom, nom. (And no food poisoning. Woo, hoo!)


----------



## NYC Composer

I take this with a huge grain of salt, but the most recent numbers suggest DJT was polling at 19% of the Hispanic vote BEFORE the big immigration speech. I don't think he can win with those numbers, and I can't see a way he could get those votes back.


----------



## chimuelo

Clinton only needs to campaign in swing states like Obama did twice.
Even GOP establishment doesnt want an outsider.
Add to the fact the FEC, FBI and DOJ are all onboard.
This race is over.
Chalk up another Bilderberg win.
But the important thing is the world has seen first hand what rigged elections look like.

The push back from the corripted is "proove it."
That statement in itself is an implicit admission.
To me this is the beginning of the end of a dishonest system.
Thats the good news.


----------



## NYC Composer

I agree, it's good news, except for two things- 

1. If he wins. Nothing is ever a done deal 'til the cows are back in the barn.

2. Some of the roused rabble will feel empowered after the election. I'm talking about the ones who really ARE rabble. Race war, anyone?


----------



## chimuelo

The race war started the day Liberals organized riots in American cities then burned then down.

Once Obama started seeing Liberals removed for passing a bill they didn't read he sought advice from Al Sharpton.
White House guest logs reveal 80 visits in the year prior to Ferguson burning down.
Disregard the facts if you want, but I think Obama wanted a get out the vote effort but race hustlers like Sharpton accept cash to calm things down.
He misjudged badly.
Shaking down the girl at Sony for 65,000 is Sharptons usual MO.

Which ever candidate wins we are going to see trouble.
You just haven't seen this yet.

Dallas was my tipping point when you hear blacks whites or Hispanics say I want to kill white people, or kill blacks, take your pic.

I'm in 3 different Liberal war zones every month Larry.
There will never be a race war, but many hateful people are looking for a reason to make the front page.

Trumps deportation talk is scaring Hispanics.
But Clinton has been selected.
She will adopt certain Johnson Sanders and Trump attributes.

Which I believe is what was planned all along.

I think things will be fine but Obama and Holder have brought this pain since day 1.
My heart sank the day Eric Holder told America we are all racists.
Then the Panthers, cops at Cambridge.
Race to divide was used every chance they got.

I still supported Obama but years ago I said using race for political gain would bite Liberals in the ass.

I'm mixed race as are a large majority of people under 30 years old.
One of the reasons pieces of shit like Sharpton can't peddle hate as much as they're use to.

When these old worthless scrum bugs disappear I Will toast.


----------



## Soundhound

Where Donald Trump gets his politics regarding race:


----------



## Soundhound

If I might ask, most respectfully, where do you get this insane shit?



chimuelo said:


> The race war started the day Liberals organized riots in American cities then burned then down.


----------



## airflamesred

As entertaining as he is , surely we are going to end up with a 'grassy knoll type stuation' here?


----------



## chimuelo

Fear not trembling Sheep.

The candidate has been selected.
Bush Gore tactics apply here.
DJT gets the popular, establishment gets the electoral.

Expect the Assange surprise, and expect Trump to really go off the deep end even scaring his following.

I've seen the GOP get handed victory 3 times since 2011 just to have a member purposely announce SocSec cuts, suicidal stuff.

The gangs work together.
No problem getting rid of Sanders.
Trump unexpectedly did so well only he can stop himself.

Hasn't shown his tax returns or spent money and is basically tied with the Bilderderg choice.

They're playing this deck down to the last card.


----------



## NYC Composer

Donald J. Trump takes a slight lead in new CNN/ORC Poll.


----------



## chimuelo

Hes been instruced by the Bilderbergs to throw the race during the debate.
A public melt down during the 1st debate would work.
They told Romney to lay off the overly prepared confused Obama in 2012.
Polls will drive up ratings for the debate climax as the Sheep bite thier hooves off.
Trump will be taken by force off the stage.
Hillary will appear coherent and Presidential.
Debates will be cancelled.
Gary Johnson takes Jill Stein as VP.
Americans stay home.
Bilderbergs........sorry, Hillary....wins with 8% of the vote, 100% of the electoral.


----------



## NYC Composer

What was our bet again, a hundred samples?


----------



## chimuelo

Yepp.
Even if doctors have to prop her up at the debate this race was decided already.
For Petes sake Larry Trump doesnt even have a ground game, all of the donations are for down ballot candidayes.
Trump has the black voodoo doctor from the movie Movie Devils Advocate on his side.
When Hillary even mentions Trumps name she coughs for minutes as Sheep stare in amazement.
She could fall down during her innagural speech, Bible lights on fire as she takes the oathe, doctors inject her with adrenaline.....doesnt matter.

Shes been selected.


----------



## NYC Composer

...or you're wrong.


----------



## chimuelo

Then your nightmarish fantasy of the civil rights act being repealled, 25,000 dollar bounties on drug dealers heads, mass deportations and mosques being levelled will occur.

In that case I will stay out of the sun, become a white supremacist and support our next president.


----------



## Soundhound

Anybody see the Row Lowe roast? Everyone piled on Ann Coulter—bad image there, but you get my meaning. Some of the piling on was funny, some of it was just vicious. Not nearly vicious enough, but good efforts all around. The SNL kid is really good.


----------



## chimuelo

How much will the Foundation pay Anthony Weiner for the NDA preventing a tell all book?

He's holding the 4th Ace it seems.

Funny how folks are saying he's such a good father, in spite of having his kid in the selfie.
That's like giving condolences to Lincoln's wife, then asking her how was the Play....

Colter got smoked..
But she had to know she was infringing on safe SpaceS and micro triggers, etc.
Stupid bravery.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Bravery? Ha!

Let's see her do that salute while addressing a room of Holocaust survivors.

Let's see Trump address a Latino leaders and tell them that he plans deportation roundups.

Let's see Trump ask the Mexican president to fund his wall - with the cameras rolling.

Let's see Trump address the NAACP while he tells them all about how black people live.

It's easy for bigots to denigrate others without having to look their targets in the eye. Bigotry isn't bravery. It's just disrespect. And it typically comes from a fear of others. When those others become "us" or family, the disrespect tends to go away. 

And if one does act like a bigot to family, friends, "us", and those in the room, that person is just a lowlife ass. Nothing brave about it.


----------



## chimuelo

Well you don't want to hurt Liberals too badly by causing those micro triggers to trigger emotional break downs.
Better to wait for multi racial deportation gangs to remove America of the cowardly Liberal safe space species.


----------



## JonFairhurst

So let me get this. You're saying that liberals are cowards and bigots are brave? Why not state it clearly, rather than by innuendo?

I have a simple definition of a hero. A hero risks their own skin for somebody else, possibly a stranger. This demonstrates true bravery.

The corollary is that a coward risks somebody else's skin, maybe even that of a friend or relative, for their own benefit.

Bigots marginalize others for their own benefit. That's clearly not bravery. It's cowardice. Standing up against bullies can take bravery, especially when the crowd is passive or eggs the bully on.

Equating being an ass with bravery and being respectful as cowardice couldn't miss the mark more widely.


----------



## chimuelo

Ain't saying anything.
Just like reading long posts by folks with strong opinions.

Was hoping for 7 but 5 paragraphs is cool.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Since you won't break it down, how about I take a stab at it?



chimuelo said:


> Well you don't want to hurt Liberals too badly by causing those micro triggers to trigger emotional break downs.



When you write "...hurt Liberals" and "...emotional break downs." You seem to imply that Liberals are weak. Why didn't you just say so?

"..micro triggers" minimizes bigoted actions. You could have just written that bigotry is just fine or no big deal. Why the PC approach?



> Better to wait for multi racial deportation gangs to remove America of the cowardly Liberal safe space species.



Here you called liberals cowardly, but you couched it within some strange fantasy of gangs deporting liberals. Kind of a Fourth Reich fantasy, don't you think?

"Liberal safe space species" is very clever. It dehumanizes those who stand against bigotry. Dehumanization is a key step before we can get to real deportations and exterminations.

But instead of coming clean, we get innuendo and "Ain't saying anything." So much for bravery.

Some things just don't stand up to the light.


----------



## Soundhound

JonF=badass


----------



## chimuelo

Extermination eh?

American media is impressive.
So is this fake election.
Perfect strategy.
Trump destroys the GOP.
Scares the shit out of the world.
Terrifies undocumented immigrants to the point where Mexico is actually fearful of the excess influx back south.

So I chose to make fun of the entire show rather than get all emotional.

And still think we should teach math science and engineering instead of saddling kids with debt, no job skills, but vast knowledge of safe Spaces, triggered emotions, etc.

So yes this new crop of indoctrinated Liberals would crumble under pressure.
Imagine your lawyer asking the judge for a break to recuperate from being traumatized by words.


----------



## JonFairhurst

But you're not just poking fun. Photo-shopping Trump in a clown suit would be fun. Making a meme out of the Clintons playing with balloons would be fun. Almost anything with Bernie is fun.

Instead, you continue to insinuate that respect is wimpy and people who demand respect are weak. (I especially like the channeling of the grumpy uncle with the reading, writing, and arithmetic thing. Music is pretty cool too, BTW.)



chimuelo said:


> And still think we should teach math science and engineering instead of saddling kids with debt, no job skills, but vast knowledge of safe Spaces, triggered emotions, etc.
> 
> ...
> 
> So yes this new crop of indoctrinated Liberals would crumble under pressure.
> Imagine your lawyer asking the judge for a break to recuperate from being traumatized by words.



That's not making fun. That's an agenda. And it's tilting at "Liberal" windmills.


----------



## chimuelo

It is a wish actually, not an agenda.

Conservatives have already been destroyed, removing fake wealthy Liberals is the goal.

Middle Class will eventually remove all of these bums so my little inferences are nothing really.
Sticks and Stones are what breaks bones, but words require grief counselors.


----------



## Soundhound

I listed to a longish discussion on NPR or somewhere last week about Univ of Chicago etc. and the ongoing issue of safe spaces, triggers etc. Certainly there might be some over compensating going on, but it's in an earnest attempt to protect people's rights to participate—when liberals overshoot their mark, it's always to that end. The right wing characterization of liberals as pussies is born of infantile, Reagan era, imaginary rugged individualism, which of course was just used to create support for deregulating big business. No one truly interested in individual rights (unless they watch Fox News) could ever possibly vote republican. When the right wing overshoots their mark (or hits it) on the other hand, we are told who we can have sex with, and which orifice can be involved. The modern right wing is a constant source of amazement. They practice outright voter suppression all over the country, and they fucking get away with it. The people passing those laws should be in jail, it's a felony. Meanwhile liberals get shit for being fascistic about safe spaces and triggers. Roger Ailes truly was a genius, he poisoned the well and dumbed down an entire generation. Our political discourse thanks to him is as primitive as it's been in my lifetime.


----------



## chimuelo

Democrats were representatives of the working man.

Now to represent plants animals humans and invertabrates they must widen thier focus with phony ass political correctness, and magnify insignificant events through media to over exaggerate thier role of victims advocates.

This is fake Liberalism designed to silence free speech.
They are pansies and putos.

But new real Liberals will remove these girly men very soon.
Yuze guys will see the advantages of an honest non predatory style of governance.

Every week I hang with College professors in music and theater and believe it or not engineering.
Its a community theater, non profit.
I build props and do lighting and FOH duties.
Most of them are from India and China.
Speak multiple languages, and are great people I love working with.
They actually laugh about the social engineering they see taught in Journalism. 

The sooner fake Liberalism becomes history the sooner Americans can maybe learn more than one language instead of gender awareness, diversity sensativity, social engineering.

And bring dodge ball back as its meant to be exclusive.


----------



## chimuelo

Almost forgot.
To show my distaste for fake conservatives I enjoyed seeing Julian Assange welcomed by Sean f....ing Hannity, a man who called Assange a traitor, coward, etc. Kissing ass for ratings by his complete 360 and attitude towards Assange.
Next he will have Snowden on hailing him as a patriot.
Which should be the case.
Patriot Act seems designed to make the lives of patriots complicit in destroying Liberty.
Using the espionage laws to go after journalists and whistle blowers is very disturbing.

Good interview though.
Looks like fake Liberals face more bad news.
Assange might end up like the guy who served the DNC lawsuit, or the staffer that was "robbed."


----------



## NYC Composer

I love Jimmy. He makes me think and pisses me off on purpose. The only problem I have with what he says is that he sometimes pretends to be equal
opportunity while he's talking 90% of the conservative playbook. Once I got him to admit to being a conservative, I was good with all of that.

I live in enemy territory, liberal paradise, the Country of New York City, and I gotta tell ya-I think the public education system is poorer for constantly celebrating the rainbow of diversity instead of simply teaching basic skills grimly and determinedly. I think we as liberals ARE too focused on micro-aggressions. I think we SHOULD be focused on skill training, jobs, jobs, jobs, better policing, less incarceration, getting money out of politics, cleaning our house of boondoggle corruption, getting the money out of politics.

The opposition has not put up a viable candidate. Trump makes Mitt Romney look benign. Voting for anyone but HRC is a vote for a dangerous clown. It's all pragmatic for me.


----------



## chimuelo

Hes not the opposition. He is going to get HRC elected.
Its the only way for Bilderbergs to forward thier global interests.

But in 2020 we'll see these old baby boomers gone for good.
Then a new American political system will come.

So until then I bash wealthy fake Liberals, thier stick figure commercials and little Mao pamphlets.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

It's really funny how most people still believe that their vote carries, believe that there are substantial differences between the contenders as well. What Larry said, I remember from my time in the US, the entire education system was not fit for purpose anymore, and that was 15 years ago.

A fantastic read btw., and one that could make you think that not too much has changed to date, is by Robert Harris, the Cicero Triology. 

Three books: a) Imperium b) Lustrum c) Dictator, setting is ancient Rome.



> The first novel in the trilogy, Imperium, describes Cicero’s rise to power. The second, Lustrum, tells of his crisis-stricken year in office – 63 BC – and of how his subsequent decision to oppose the so-called triumvirate earned him the enmity of Julius Caesar and led him to flee Rome. It is at this desperate point in Cicero’s fortunes that the third novel, Dictator, begins. Its story encompasses what was arguably – at least until the convulsions of 1933-45 – the most tumultuous era in human history.


----------



## NYC Composer

You should probably bash fake populism, baseball caps with jingoistic slogans and plans for storm trooper deportations too, since I doubt you're in favor of any of those. Yanno, just for balance.


----------



## NYC Composer

Georg, to counter- I do not believe Al Gore would have taken us into Iraq.


----------



## chimuelo

But I am for mass deportation Larry.
Of wealthy fake Liberals.
Freeze thier Swiss accounts and also the Biden family hedge fund offshore.
I have an excellent redistribution of wealth plan.
Give thier forgotten voters that hide from gunfire private school choice.

Trump is a pimp.

Did you see the raffle for 100 dollar donators where the winner is flown to Trump Towers for a cup of coffee with Ivanka?
Thats insane....

So I sent 200 thinking my odds were better..


----------



## G.R. Baumann

NYC Composer said:


> Georg, to counter- I do not believe Al Gore would have taken us into Iraq.



Perhaps not Al Gore, then again, POTUS is not the omnipotent sovereign, hence the inner circle of decision influencers is more resistant. Presidents.... they come and go, others stay!


----------



## Soundhound

It is nice to see the idea of fake liberals working its way into your polemics, Jimmy, rather than just Liberals. Which I'm going to assume has always been your shorthand for fake liberals. No one's more pissed off at Democrats who think and act like Republicans than moi.


----------



## chimuelo

Again I have been a Sanders supporter here in this forum for over 10 years.
I whole heartedly support any successful Mayor or Governor regardless of affilation.
Gary Johnson, Tulsi Gabbard, Jerry Brown. We have many.

I just cant relate to the indoctrinated right left types.
I can read the Times or watch Fox if I require breast feeding.


----------



## NYC Composer

G.R. Baumann said:


> Perhaps not Al Gore, then again, POTUS is not the omnipotent sovereign, hence the inner circle of decision influencers is more resistant. Presidents.... they come and go, others stay!


This is true Georg, but I don't believe Gore's influencers would have pointed him at Iraq either, so sometimes choices do have consequences even at the electorate level. On the other hand, there's that crazy electoral college here in America.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> But I am for mass deportation Larry.
> Of wealthy fake Liberals.
> Freeze thier Swiss accounts and also the Biden family hedge fund offshore.
> I have an excellent redistribution of wealth plan.
> Give thier forgotten voters that hide from gunfire private school choice.
> 
> Trump is a pimp.
> 
> Did you see the raffle for 100 dollar donators where the winner is flown to Trump Towers for a cup of coffee with Ivanka?
> Thats insane....
> 
> So I sent 200 thinking my odds were better..



...and wealthy oligarchic conservatives, of course? I mean, the Kochs and their whole crew need to go too,no?

Um. would those private schools include religious indoctrination stations as opposed to your favorite target, the public school liberal indoctrination centers? Kids growing up with banned books and science denial? How about a few madrassas thrown into the mix? Slippery slope.

Ivanka should pay YOU $200 to meet. Just sayin'.


----------



## chimuelo

Koch brothers stay since we need Energy Independence.
Catholic schools are cool. Kids learn to lie in Catholic schools. In public schools kids dont learn to lie due to over diversification.
Maddrasses are OK since Liberals need concessions for thier investors.

Totally agree about Ivanka.
But Melania....I'll stop buying gear for 30 days to have coffee with her.


----------



## NYC Composer

The Koch brothers want energy independence too. They want to sell fossil fuels with zero regulation. That sounds like a grand idea.

Koch 1:"Hey, those chemicals we're using poison the groundwater for two million people."
Koch 2: "So?"


----------



## chimuelo

Trump gets exciled to Trump Towers in Cuidad Juarez.
3 stories only.


----------



## NYC Composer

Tough town, Juarez. Especially around the maquiladoras. Just hearsay--I have no plans to visit.


----------



## chimuelo

You could just see Trump ordering around landscapers from an air conditioned office using a translator and Megaphone.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Never been to Juarez. I've been to Agua Prieta though...

North of the highway, closer to the border, it just seems like a poor town with small, run down houses and buildings. South of the highway, it's shacks and caved-in, partial buildings with litter all over the unpaved roads. But that area isn't as poor as it gets. In truly poor areas, there is no litter.


----------



## chimuelo

Guess I missed the show but I prefer highlights any way.

Recently 88 Generals and Admirals finally decided to stick thier necks out for Trump, even called a reluctant General out on stage recently. 
It was obvious he didnt want to but DJT wouldnt let up.
But these guys had to be doing face palms after DJT spoke of a purging since Obama reduced the Generals to rubble.

And of course Clinton highlights were layers of new lies.

We're foked.....


----------



## Soundhound

Energy independence would be sooooo easy. I always thought we should pave Arizona, or some other place with too many republicans, cover it in solar panels. Done. Turns out I was wrong. You don't need nearly that much room, maybe a 10th. The Koch brothers version of energy independence would eventually have to mean invading somewhere else with tons of oil at some point. Canada and Russia are sitting on the most oil, so there's your choice, mooses or vodka. Either way you get plenty of hockey, whatever the hell that is.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

JonFairhurst said:


> But that area isn't as poor as it gets. In truly poor areas, there is no litter.



Interesting observation!


----------



## G.R. Baumann

NYC Composer said:


> This is true Georg, but I don't believe Gore's influencers would have pointed him at Iraq either, so sometimes choices do have consequences even at the electorate level. On the other hand, there's that crazy electoral college here in America.



As Gore stated himself, "_Democracy has been hacked!_", considering that to be true triggers the question what action is required to reclaim democracy and most crucially, eject the hackers.

Gore thinks social media and the internet is the solution towards that goal. I have serious doubts on that proposal, not saying it is impossible, but knowing how the internet is already changing big times, and more to come.


----------



## NYC Composer

Trump admires Putin's strong leadership-way, way too much.


----------



## chimuelo

I admired the Chinese until I saw thier micro passive racist treatment of Obama.
That was almost as bad as when I studied classical music and saw nothing but pictures of old white men on the walls.
I was traumatized and requested I have safe space to study in.
I also requested representatives from every race be present during my jury.

Putin and Trump are racists.


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> Putin and Trump are racists.



Well, Trump certainly coddles racists. I'm not sure about Putin.

What we can definitively say is that Putin and Trump are Authoritarians.


----------



## chimuelo

I believe they want to unite all whites for a new era of white supremacy.

I don't see Hispanics or Blacks in the Russian Parliament, hence they're racists.

Chinese don't have whites Hispanics or Blacks in their ruling houses so they are racists.

The world is racist.

Gotta go. 
The wealthy Queen is going to tell us how she will defeat the terrorists her and Obama created.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Was that a troll post? Whatever.

I'm more concerned about authoritarianism right now. 

Why does the US imprison more than any other nation? Authoritarianism.
Why do cops get away with shooting unarmed citizens? Authoritarianism.
How can a president go to war on false pretenses and advocate torture without being impeached? Authoritarianism.
And it should be no surprise that the same people who support are also "social conservatives." They advocate laws that take away the rights of US Citizens. That's authoritarianism.

If you think about it, I act socially conservatively. I'm straight. One marriage of 30 years. Never been in jail. But the news media wouldn't call me a "social conservative" because I don't want the government to tell people who they can love, to tell people what they can smoke, and to stop women from making their own reproductive choices.

The media should call these people what they really are: authoritarians.

They should name Trump as well. There's a reason he praises dictators.


----------



## chimuelo

Glad to hear you're coming to your senses and voting for Johnson.

I thought for sure you'd vote for segregation and Liberal plantations run by wealthy white Liberal millionaires.


----------



## NYC Composer

I thought for sure you'd vote for HRC to keep DJT out of office. We all have our little disappointments.


----------



## chimuelo

Quite the opposite.
I truly believe Clinton's recent remarks have triggered another round of your people are dumber than mine, totally undermining her usual socially engineered claims of togetherness.

Somebody with a few hundred million extra will drop the cash into Johnson's campaign and get rid of the Clinton/Trump debacle.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Neither Trump's authoritarian, identity politics nor Gary "What's Aleppo" Johnson's market politics are the solution.


----------



## JonFairhurst

So that's domestic policy. Let's see what the Conservatives offer on foreign policy...

Johnson doesn't know what Aleppo is. And Trump has a "plan."








This is like elementary school where the teacher asks the kid for the answer, but he didn't read the assignment.


----------



## Soundhound

the libertarian thing always struck me as really kind of, well, stupid. no vaccines, no gun control. stupid.


----------



## chimuelo

No wealthy white Liberals is very appealing.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> Gary "What's Aleppo" Johnson's market politics are the solution.



The Sec of State says she didn't know how classified emails were marked. Doesn't leave much room for her supporters to mock anyone's competence.


----------



## Soundhound

It's a never ending fascination to me how people have fallen for the lies and nonsense that have been hurled at Hillary Clinton for decades. When none of it has ever proved to be true. Whitewater, Vincent Foster, benghazi, the emails bullshit... It's been relentless since she arrived on the political scene, and it has all turned out to be absolute nonsense.

None of it can work, of course, unless you speak to an audience predisposed to think she is guilty. Roger Ailes made it okay to be racist, homophobic, misgynist and xenophobic. There is an entire generation of uniformed people ready to find her guilty. It's how Trump is able to appeal to so many people, they have absolutely no idea what's going on. They know what they hear on Fox News and Brietbart and Ann Coulter et al, and to what their priests tell them to believe. They are not discerning, intelligent members of society. And every one of them gets a vote.

Hopefully they won't manage to elect Donald Trump president. I've got all fingers and toes crossed for the next 60 days, which is kind of uncomfortable.


----------



## Baron Greuner

'A basket of deplorables'.

I may be wrong but I think Hillary just showed about as much political sense as Theresa shows dress sense.

Cameron called UKIP 'a bunch of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists' and was then promptly and correctly, fcked in the ass and fired as Prime Minister.

Bad news here for Hillary.


----------



## Soundhound

the morons carried the day in the UK, they may on this side the pond as well. it's unthinkable, but so was brexit until it happened.


----------



## NYC Composer

You're not preaching to the converted their, 'hound. The Baron was a Brexit fan, I believe. Britain for Britons!


----------



## Soundhound

I love not preaching to the choir! A rare an unexpected treat!


----------



## JonFairhurst

Michael K. Bain said:


> The Sec of State says she didn't know how classified emails were marked. Doesn't leave much room for her supporters to mock anyone's competence.



I don't know the procedure for marking classified emails. But I know what Aleppo is. I even know what country it's in. And I know the name of its president. And that the US wants him to resign. I didn't study this. I didn't look it up on Wikipedia. I just casually follow the news. Is Gary Johnson a mushroom?

What I really don't understand is people's obsession with the policies of the IT department. Who the F gives a crap about their employer's IT policies? OMG, did Hillary check her Facebook page while on the clock? Treason!


----------



## JonFairhurst

This is an actual Doonesbury comic from 1999. Can't make this stuff up.







Yes. He said, "sheep."


----------



## NYC Composer

I think you have to switch your vote, Jimmy-you're aligned! it's in the stars.


----------



## chimuelo

I like the fact Johnson didn't know about Alleppo.
He's more concerned with domestic issues.
Hillary knowing about Alleppo means she's aware of yet another Liberal disaster she screwed up.
She Said Assad was a moderate.
Poor girl.
It's not that she's wrong, she's never been right.

But thankfully Liberals make themselves hundreds of millions being wrong.

And the Sheep clack thier hooves in approval.


----------



## NYC Composer

.. .then a vote for Trump should be right up your alley! He doesn't know a damn thing.


----------



## chimuelo

I'll be fine no matter who wins.

Reversing Earths temperature or forced into a white supremacist partnership with Russia and a new Germany, no problem.

Anything beats the slavery of global elites with thier regime change star trek goo.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yeah, you're right. Liberals might march us into the wrong country. It's all the same to you because if there's anything worse than unnecessary, treasury-draining, bloody wars started by lying elitist conservatives, it's lying elitist liberals stealing money.

Wait. Why is that worse?


----------



## chimuelo

Shameful isn't it.
But exactly why these two Crime Families need prosecution under the RICO statutes, then an American Supreme Leader can be anointed.

Iran is a great example.
Our Liberals found themselves so envious of the idea they throw billions to them out of admiration.

Instead of the Supreme Spinach Chin, we can have the Supreme Lettuce Head.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm not sure what you said there dude, but I'm sure it made perfect sense to the other people on your planet.


----------



## chimuelo

The planet of sexist, misogynist, Islamaphobes, xenaphobes, racists white supremacists and the deplorable.
If I left any isms or sits out my apologies.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yep, social issues don't matter. Apartheid. Mass incarceration. Beating up queers, denying them federal benefits such as health care, Social Security because they're not free to marry. Science denial. Unequal schooling decided by color and money. Paying women less than men, denying them access to top positios in the corporate world. Mass deportations, destroying families. Veterans committing suicide at a rate vastly higher than other citizens.

Yes. You missed about a hundred isms. World's a tough place, that's clear-but the playing field isn't even, and though I don't think it's the ONLY thing that matters, I do believe in fighting for social justice because enough people already fight against it.


----------



## chimuelo

Then Trump is the perfect man for the job. An achiever. A huge success.


By electing a person that get things done all of the isms and ists will be eliminated.

Lying Liberals have had years to fix things and failed, but made millions trying.

If things are fixed they're out of business.

Trump will make America great again.
Investors in Liberalism will have to buy people in other countries and foundations.


----------



## Soundhound

Steve Bannon is not paying you enough Jimmy. working on the weekends, sheeesh!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> I don't know the procedure for marking classified emails.


I wouldn't expect you to know the procedure for marking classified emails. However, it is imperative that the Secretary of State of the United States does know it.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Since the beginning of the Primaries I felt that Trump really had very little chance of winning this current debacle aka the Presidential election. Now for the first time, I actually think he can win. Not necessarily will win. But can win.
Exciting times ahead.


----------



## chimuelo

No way can an outsider spoil that Liberal cash flow.
Hillary was selected, this race was already decided.
She gets to use Trump to scare the world, then Hillary comes to save her wife beating beheading friends and the cash to the Foundation flows more than ever.

So it was written (paid for)
So it shall be done.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

For days, I've been thinking Hillary will drop out before the election. After today's incident, I am even more sure. I am against her presidency, but I have compassion for her after seeing the very sad video. I hope she gets the medical help she needs. I think she's being used; and now the machine is pushing her beyond her physical limits. Someone needs to step in and say "Enough".


----------



## Soundhound

I knew the insane right wing would jump all over this morning's events. It's really incredible how Fox News has trained its seals to do and think exactly as they are told. Very very good!

edit: But absolutely agreed, all it would take is one really bad terrorist attack, one shooting that can be blamed on the black lives matter movement, a bad downturn in the market, and Trump could win. I also don't think he will, but it's a possibility. Fox News created this monster, and we all may wind up suffering as a result. The terrible damage done by the right wing since the 80s is incalculable, but would pale in comparison to what would happen if this imbecile is elected. George W Bush was an imbecile of course, but he wasn't in charge of anything.


----------



## Baron Greuner

What was the temperature in New York today? How many others at the memorial service fainted?

Did Trump faint?

She needs to forget being President of anything. They need to replace her with Bernie because she has an obvious medical condition.


----------



## chimuelo

She just has to cross the finish line.
It's all been arranged.


----------



## Ashermusic

chimuelo said:


> She just has to cross the finish line.
> It's all been arranged.




Sure. And we never landed on the moon, it was filmed in a studio....the CIA killed JFK.... the government covered up alien landings......


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> What was the temperature in New York today? How many others at the memorial service fainted?



It was 84 degrees at the time. 



Baron Greuner said:


> She needs to forget being President of anything...she has an obvious medical condition.


True. She needs to drop out or it will do her in.


----------



## NYC Composer

What's your primary goal in this election, Michael?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> What's your primary goal in this election, Michael?


My goal in this election is to vote for the person I want for the job. That's Castle or McMullin.


----------



## NYC Composer

So regardless of your desired cadidate's chances of winning, is that your plan for voting going forward (past this election)?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> So regardless of your desired cadidate's chances of winning, is that your plan for voting going forward (past this election)?


In future elections, I may have to vote for someone who's only halfway acceptable to keep out someone more unacceptable. In this election, both of the two main choices are 100% unacceptable to me. This, I will vote for who I want to be president.


----------



## NYC Composer

Thank you for clarifying.

One thing though-you do recognize that one of your 100% unacceptable candidates will be elected, yes?


----------



## chimuelo

Even if she has to have somebody pull her arm up to wave.


----------



## NYC Composer

I thought Mad mag was hysterically funny when I was 11.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Thank you for clarifying.
> 
> One thing though-you do recognize that one of your 100% unacceptable candidates will be elected, yes?


I realize that in the natural, it looks that way.
But it's not a sure thing.
Like I said, I do not believe Hillary will still be in the race come election day. Something is seriously wrong with her. The incident today wasn't heat exhaustion like they originally said, and if it were pneumonia like they said later, would she have been out in public hugging kids?
Secondly, if Hillary should remain in, it's not outside the realm of possibility that McMullin or Johnson could deny the 270 to both, sending it to the House. And it will be the new House, not the current one, so they might decide it for McMullin. He is after all propped up by the Republican Establishment.


----------



## NYC Composer

I would give the odds against any of that happening at about 99 to 1. On the other hand, the idea of Trump winning the nomination of an actual party has turned the world upside down, so who knows.

In my mind, anyone who voted for Ralph Nader gave us the war in Iraq. Anyone who votes for none of the above may well give us whatever comes out of Trump.

May you live in interesting times.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Anyone who votes for none of the above may well give us whatever comes out of Trump.


That's funny, because on Twitter the Trumpsters tell me the exact opposite; that by not voting for Trump, I'm helping Hillary win. So, if you're all right, then my non-voting support of each candidate cancels each other out, and I'm right where i want to be in the first place: not supporting either candidate.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I would give the odds against any of that happening at about 99 to 1. On the other hand, the idea of Trump winning the nomination of an actual party has turned the world upside down, so who knows.


The odds may be against it, but I've been in the middle of true life-saving miracles, so I don't count anything out.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, good luck on being in the middle of another one.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Ashermusic said:


> Sure. And we never landed on the moon, it was filmed in a studio...



You bet your ass it was!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Well, good luck on being in the middle of another one.


Miracles have nothing to do with luck.


----------



## NYC Composer

Everything has to do with luck.

There, you've presented your world view and I mine. I think we should probably leave it there.


----------



## chimuelo

Dont believe in luck.
People investing hundreds of millions in Wall Street have insider information.
People investing in Liberals have an ROI Schedule.
I gotta say Liberals beat the pants off of Conservatives.

Warren Buffet bought a railroad to move Canadian Oil to the Gulf.
He knew he could count on Liberals stretching out the 5 year State Department study.
They finally showed it was safer than his railroad method.
Even though theres been around 20 major spills.

Just another off the top of my head.
Canadian Content Creators invested millions.
In return they got the awesome ACA contracts.
First time in history a 20 million dollar venture costed 2,800,000,000 dollars.

This stuff pays better than drugs.
Theres no way these billionaires and foreign governments invest in Trump.
I bet Putin even has his Uranium buddies buying stuff from Liberals.

Follow the money.
It takes you to Liberal nirvana.


----------



## NYC Composer

Luck is the residue of design.

Hey, one word-Haliburton! DANN those thieving lib'rals!


----------



## chimuelo

Oh yeah, especially during the BP Spill,
Check out who purchased the salvage and clean up rights.
Kevin Kostner can be thanked for that discovery.
Haliburton was "lucky".
Weeks before the explosion killing 11 folks that work for a living they bought the company.

Guess what green energy investor had insider tips on the moratorium?
You know.
He spent billions on offshore oil drilling in Brazil and Mexico.
Those fleets of drilling rigs went there.
One big happy family looking out for the little people.

Halliburton did great.
Kostner were not given any patents.
The old slow expensive way is what is preferred.
Hurricane that destroyed New Orleans had the same guy deciding what money went where in the reconstruction.

Youd think liberals would hate anything Bush or Cheney.
But its always about the money even when they say it isnt.


----------



## chimuelo

So thanks for the balancing insight.
Prooves how the big boys own whatever law firm wins the election.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm a liberal. I hate marching into wars for profits. Sorry, your theory doesn't play with me.


----------



## chimuelo

Theory?
Your vision is through the prism of bias.
Hailiburton gets what it wants, doesnt matter what law firm is selling the favors.

You just hate hearing the lawyers you worship like deep pockets, and dont care who pays them.

But who else could clean up the spill?

Did you forget about the Norwegians who offered us help and had a fleet sailing there?
Obamas "advisors" refused thier assistance.

Not saying any of this is evil.
Its just business.
So if this is a source of tension dont let it bother you.
Kerry Clinton, the leadership elites of liberalism voted to go in with Haliburton more than once.

Its all about the money.
Doing the community a great service.
Just like a foundation.
So what if the lifestyles of the rich and famous is expensive?

Again Larry just view this as a business, because they sure as hell do.
Doesnt mean they dont support gay rights or puppies and kittens.
If polls showed that sado massichism and animal sex were trendy theyd be right there with you.


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't worship anyone, I'm not naive, and you are so full of rhetorical bile that the image you present is one of a vitriolic conspiracy crazoid with righteous spittle spewing from his mouth. That's on your bad days.

Money doesn't have politics. You pretend to treat this all in an even handed manner except that your vitriol is reserved for "liberals". Liberal this, liberal that, sheep this that blah blah blah. You have your team and like to pretend you don't. It's exhausting just reading your constant far right talking points- you obviously read tons of liberal conspiracy websites, whereas the real money in this country is overwhelmingly in conservative hands and very organized hands at that. Yet, never a vast right wing conspiracy commentary from you.

Hopefully, the bullshit authoritarian racist sexist air and water despoiling science denying motherfuckers of the country will win the election so you can be happy again.


----------



## Soundhound

I am in awe of the power of Roger Ailes. More now than ever. He makes the Steve Jobs reality field look like a couple of triple A batteries. He has turned fully half the country against Hillary Clinton, and nothing, ever, that has ever been leveled against her is in any way true. If Roger Ailes worked for the betterment of the world instead of being hell bent on destroying it while receiving the most blowjobs from blonde female employees per square foot of office space, we would be taking vacations on the moon and there would be no more hungry people in the world. Oh well, you can't win 'em all.

edit: sorry Larry/Jimmy, nice tennis match you have going there—didn't mean to run onto the court in the middle of a point!


----------



## chimuelo

She can't lose.
Polls are fixed to quell Trumps enthusiastic supporters.

Tell the Sheep they're winning, tell them it's a landslide, they'll stay home thinking it's a win, no need to miss a days work.
Most Liberals don't have jobs, they'll be out in force.

So don't get nervous.
This is a smart strategy.

Trump will look like a mean, kick her while she's down guy at the debates.
Then get the FBI to claim Assanges documents are forged.

Easy win even if she is wheeled onto the stage with an Oxygen Tank.


----------



## Ashermusic

Here is one thing I am sure of, Chim: when you resort to labelling people as a way of advancing your argument, it is in lieu of being able to make your argument standing on its own merits.


----------



## Soundhound

Conspiracy theories are very comforting, aren't they Jimmy? The illusion of order and control in a disorderly universe. Kinda like religion, makes one feel safe and taken care of. The opiates of the masses, always very popular items. I only had morphine once, it was in an ER unfortunately, not in morocco or barbados with anita pallenberg to see me through, but still, it gave me an even greater respect for Keith Richards, opiates totally rock...


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hillary shouldn't lose, but after the last few days, she has put herself into a position where she can lose.


----------



## chimuelo

Wheres the conspiracy?
This is an investment, a business transaction.

You dont honestly believe people spend billions of dollars just so they can say "we won".
We'll see you in 4 more years just to play the election sweepstakes again?
SCOTUS passed a law to balance out domestic, foreign and hidden investments.
The fact our Supreme Court acknowledges investments in legislation in itself is corruption.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I understand what Jimmy is saying here. 

Does anyone really think that Hillary will go against anything Goldman Sachs wants if she wins?


----------



## Ashermusic

Baron Greuner said:


> I understand what Jimmy is saying here.
> 
> Does anyone really think that Hillary will go against anything Goldman Sachs wants if she wins?



Absolutely I do. First of all, she has, in the past. Secondly, she and Bill have all the money they ever need and as president, she will do what she believes is best for the country.


----------



## Soundhound

Whenever I get pneumonia, I feel like i have let those around me down. Hillary really should be ashamed of herself.


----------



## Soundhound

That's what I ask myself all the time about your posts. Where's the conspiracy? There's no evidence for it at all. But you insist that the election has been bought and paid for. The least they could do is ask for a receipt!




chimuelo said:


> Wheres the conspiracy?
> This is an investment, a business transaction.
> 
> You dont honestly believe people spend billions of dollars just so they can say "we won".
> We'll see you in 4 more years just to play the election sweepstakes again?
> SCOTUS passed a law to balance out domestic, foreign and hidden investments.
> The fact our Supreme Court acknowledges investments in legislation in itself is corruption.


----------



## Baron Greuner

There's no time like the present to practice living in denial if things go wrong in the election.

Cameron resigns as an MP. Thank God for that.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron-maybe your country will come along again on our next conservative adventure into some bullshit war. Won't that be fun??


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry you're talking to a guy whose great uncle was a Field Marshall. 

What do you think?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Ashermusic said:


> Here is one thing I am sure of, Chim: when you resort to labelling people as a way of advancing your argument, it is in lieu of being able to make your argument standing on its own merits.


One thing I am sure of Jay, is that if you address that to Jimmy alone, you haven't read much of this thread. Or that you don't wish to call out anyone from the other side.


----------



## Soundhound

There are some very thin skins exposed in this thread Jay. But the wounds tend to heal relatively quickly, for most. Plenty of gauze and antibiotics readily available.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Larry you're talking to a guy whose great uncle was a Field Marshall.
> 
> What do you think?


Rommel was your uncle?


----------



## chimuelo

Hillary will save Earth.
She's for the little people.

Eric Persing will save audiences ears from shrill Rhodes and Hohner samples.

Hillary will send letters made of earth killing paper that take days to arrive threatening you to pay your fair share.

Eric Persing delivers Keyscape on a USB Stick from free overnight shipping. 

Tuesday by days end.

I spend every dime I make on innovative software and quality hardware.

Better get it now before Liberals take even more trying to help us...


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> There are some very thin skins exposed in this thread Jay. But the wounds tend to heal relatively quickly, for most. Plenty of gauze and antibiotics readily available.


Yep. Lots of blood drawn, but no fatalities.

Yet.


----------



## Ashermusic

Michael K. Bain said:


> One thing I am sure of Jay, is that if you address that to Jimmy alone, you haven't read much of this thread. Or that you don't wish to call out anyone from the other side.




You are correct, I did not. And yes, it applies to all, a case of "if the shoe fits, wear it."


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> Rommel was your uncle?


One of the greats!


----------



## NYC Composer

As Nazis go, he was very clever. I take it you are of German/Austrian heritage, Baron? Not the first time you've expressed admiration for the Nazi war machine. Technical brilliance aside, I must admit it leaves me cold. That whole genocidal thing distracted me.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Hillary is clearly unfit to be president. As you can clearly see in this photo, she has no eyes. Who would vote for a WOMAN who removed her eyes? Since when does pneumonia make people remove their eyes? Do you want to live in a country where people remove their eyes? We need to see her medical records now! Do you want people coming for your eyes! Or the eyes of your children?







Meanwhile, Trump's strategy team released this detailed policy statement: "Eyes!" When asked what this means, the spokesman replied by saying, "Boo!"


----------



## chimuelo

But you missed the Piano wire pulling up her arm by the wrist.
Worry not though.
The job awaits her.
I heard they already removed Elanor Roosevelts China and Silverware so she doesnt steal it again.
Her brother has already started soliciting pardons for 2020.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> Since when does pneumonia make people remove their eyes?


That is admittedly clever, Jon. But seriously, would her staff let her walk around in public hugging kids if she had pneumonia?


----------



## Soundhound

Did she hug any kids, or did rush limbaugh and anne coulter say she hugged kids?


----------



## Baron Greuner

I thought about the medical team that must have arrayed at her daughters apartment before they whisked her over there. I hope she recovers, but if that turns out to be something other than they are saying and it comes out, it's all over.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> As Nazis go, he was very clever. I take it you are of German/Austrian heritage, Baron? Not the first time you've expressed admiration for the Nazi war machine. Technical brilliance aside, I must admit it leaves me cold. That whole genocidal thing distracted me.



You have to separate the two. The historical knowledge required about fighting armies of the world through the ages takes a lot of study. Political parties are one thing and the military is another.
Rommel for example, is a highly regarded military strategist of the highest quality and was hamstrung by politics. He was recalled from Normandy around the landings. History shows how lucky and unlucky different factions can be when interference skewes outcomes. It's littered with them. The trick is to stay objective and not take sides when looking at historical outcomes as most historians do.


----------



## NYC Composer

I thought the Trump candidacy was over with "they're rapists". Just goes to show you, always something new in the world.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> You have to separate the two. The historical knowledge required about fighting armies of the world through the ages takes a lot of study. Political parties are one thing and the military is another.
> Rommel for example, is a highly regarded military strategist of the highest quality and was hamstrung by politics. He was recalled from Normandy around the landings. History shows how lucky and and unlucky different factions can be when interference skewes outcomes. It's littered with them. The trick is to stay objective and not take sides when looking at historical outcomes as most historians do.


No, actually, I don't have to separate the two. The Nazi war machine wiped out a third of the population of my ancestors, and their particular genocidal and eugenicist notions were at the bottom of the human barrel-so no, not objective. Disgusted. That you and many others I know are fascinated from your armchairs by war and how war operates is your business. That I am disgusted by the separation of the techniques or war and the human cost in blood and loss, that is mine.


----------



## Baron Greuner

That's life Larry. You must really be upset whenever anyone mentions Edward 1?


----------



## NYC Composer

Genocide and eugenics = life? Maybe yours. Life is horror and death and blood? Really. Yours?

How's your Porsche running?


----------



## NYC Composer

"Hey, they just pushed old Uncle Harry and little Timmy into a big room and gassed them to death with Zyklon-B!!"

"Oh well- that's life, I guess."

Nonchalance and objectivity. The balanced man. Bloody good on yer, mate.


----------



## chimuelo

Meanwhile back at the ranch.........

Long time back I decided reading foreign media during an election was interesting to read.
German, Israeli, Mexican and Greek outlets operate outside of Government persuassion.

Take a break from our biased rags unless Rueters and AP are faves.
Theres a wave of nationalism and while that equates to tribalism bigotry, etc. Most are pro Clinton.
While the usual everything is beautiful seems to be pro Trump.
Even in Mexico you can find anti NAFTA articles.

At least you can avoid the Liberal Conservative media.
When you make hundreds of millions from PAC ads you pretty much have to pick sides.

UK and American media should be avoided unless of course you are thoroughly embedded to one of these theologicical beliefs.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> Genocide and eugenics = life? Maybe yours. Life is horror and death and blood? Really. Yours?
> 
> How's your Porsche running?



Yeah OK!


http://s377.photobucket.com/user/barongreuner/slideshow/?sort=3


----------



## Soundhound

I have 0 interest in military technology/strategy, I have always gotten my toy joy from music technology. From amps and guitars when I was a kid, later on the road and in the studio, to the amazing, magically, impossible wonders of today. To my knowledge there have been no crimes against humanity, mass murder to date caused by any of it. Yanni notwithstanding.

But that's just me.


----------



## Baron Greuner

While Hillary is recovering we'll just talk amongst ourselves.

I guess one of the really big military clinchers for me was one of my G G G grandfathers, a chap called William Cole. He was born roughly 1760 and eventually became a Bosun or Boatswain, whichever you prefer. 
He signed on for an expedition to Tahiti in the late 1700s and they finally made it there and stayed for around 5 months. That turned out to be a mistake because soon after they set sail for England, the crew mutinied and he was shoved into a long boat with 18 others in the middle of nowhere.
That'll teach him to sign on as Bosun on HMS Bounty. Fascinating story and quite a scene at the time I would imagine.
Signed on as Bosun of HMS Resolution when he returned and after the trial wound up in the Battle of Trafalgar/Cadiz.

It's all go in those days.


----------



## chimuelo

Edited videos of Hillary are surfacing of her with 500 dollar an hour physical therapists showing she's OK.
Even has a heavy bag with Trumps face on it.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

That's not his face, it's his ass.

Or wait... maybe you're right. It's very difficult to tell.


----------



## chimuelo

There's so much humor vrs. doom & gloom this election.
I think people see this election as I do because a President can only do so much.
I do believe whoever wins will get 4 years.

A real Liberal party will emerge to represent a new generation and thanks to DJT my old Union Democrats will still call themselves HOP, but the million millionaire era of fake Liberals and Evangelical Conservatives is over.
Keep religion in the community where it serves people locally.

So I will enjoy seeing a new era of governance with young people kicking out the self serving fossils.

2020 WILL be hindsight.


----------



## Soundhound

While you're at it, could we add a Knick championship to that beautiful reverie? Hell, as long as we're getting everything we wish for how about a Knick dynasty? 



chimuelo said:


> There's so much humor vrs. doom & gloom this election.
> I think people see this election as I do because a President can only do so much.
> I do believe whoever wins will get 4 years.
> 
> A real Liberal party will emerge to represent a new generation and thanks to DJT my old Union Democrats will still call themselves HOP, but the million millionaire era of fake Liberals and Evangelical Conservatives is over.
> Keep religion in the community where it serves people locally.
> 
> So I will enjoy seeing a new era of governance with young people kicking out the self serving fossils.
> 
> 2020 WILL be hindsight.


----------



## chimuelo

Must be on a slow phone, double post.
Bring the Atlanta Hawks back to ST Louis.
Use to love watching Harlem Globetrotters vrs. NBA Teams.


----------



## chimuelo

Yuze guys posting here sends a super loud bird tweet into my IEMs as I add Keyscape parts to PianoTeq Pro.
So I took a break and am reading Colin Powell's emails.
He seems to see Hillary and Trump as a couple of pathetic choices.

2 years ago I remember reading Russian military bought 1000s of old Westinghouse Typewriters from our government.
Betcha our comfortable elites will finally wake up and use courtiers too.


----------



## Soundhound

Subway. visiting home (I guess it's home, don't really know any more) for a few days.



chimuelo said:


> Must be on a slow phone, double post.
> Bring the Atlanta Hawks back to ST Louis.
> Use to love watching Harlem Globetrotters vrs. NBA Teams.


----------



## chimuelo

You in northern Mexico...........sorry....I meant SoCal?


----------



## Soundhound

yeah but we moved to Atlanta (ish) for a year or so, rented our house in L.A. I'm from NYC and visit the ancient parents and increasingly ancient friends few times a year. It was hot as Hades (or Atlanta) here last weekend.


----------



## NYC Composer

You in NYC, 'hound, or the sandwich place?


----------



## Soundhound

In the city! Are you around??


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> I think people see this election as I do because a President can only do so much.



If you like Citizens United, vote for Trump. If you are against Citizens United vote for Hillary. 

Supreme Court appointments are where the president has strong influence. And history is clear: conservatives vote for more money in politics, even resorting to the mental gymnastics of equating money and speech. Liberal justices tend to uphold campaign finance reform. We might not get CU invalidated within four years, but if the court gets stacked to the right, it could be with us for a generation or two.

So if you care about separating big money from politics...

Somebody tell the media that the presidential election is about more than fake scandals and umbrage.


----------



## NYC Composer

'Hound, see Pm


----------



## chimuelo

Citizens United was the answer to tax payers money for education being recycled through public unions back to the DNC.
SCOTUS remarks during the decision basically reflect the money laundering process.
2014 the NEA lost 80,000,000 dollars trying to save Liberals from losing thier jobs. They failed but no biggie.
The 80,000,000 will be replenished by tax payers.
Both methods of purchasing politicians is legal.

I want ALL money removed.
As long as billionaires can buy Liberals and Conservatives your voice is meaningless.

Hillary calls people deplorable.
Yet gays are killed and women treated like property from her donors.
She should fire her script writers.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ah, the vast left-wing conspiracy:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/14/politics/koch-brothers-senate/index.html


----------



## chimuelo

Awesome.
Make America Great Again.

But the guy to watch is Sheldon Adelson. 100,000,000 in 2012.
Wonderful chap.
Built a Great casino, then with the help of Harry Reid runs the only Non Union Casino on the strip.

And people claim these 2 Law firms are still different.
Harry likes special restrooms, and abortions.
The other law firms doesn't.
But on trade and regime change, non important issues, oh and cash, they are all in agreement.


----------



## chimuelo

Have you read the list of donors from the DNC database yet?
Donors got to pick thier positions in Ambassador positions, Department heads, etc.
Of course they just want these lucrative positions so they can help the little people and do what's best for the country.

The foreign donors list is equally impressive.
Stars by the "big fish" and highest donors top of the page.

Cross referencing the lists to State Department appointments is quite damning.

What baffles me is how everyone tries to kill the messenger?

You'd think being the deceitful liars that they are they would say these are forged. They layer lies upon more lies why not stay true to your MO?

The entire world knows our Government is for sale, yet the Sheep still want to believe THEY have a voice and are represented.

We're exempted from the ACA but it cost only 48,000,000.
Best Damn deal we ever got.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ever read who attends the annual meeting of the little informal conservative org the Kochs started? Out at their spread? Some serious inheriting mofos, them, buying elections state by state, county by county, township by township, influencing shcolastic institutions one endowed chair after another, hiding behind shadow PACS-but you never mention them, even though it's all about sheep. Apparently, by some amazing coincidence, all the sheep you happen to notice are liberal! Strange but true...


----------



## chimuelo

Sure do but those are public.
Boring as the beggars dance for dollars.
I like the gatherings where the hosts show up better.
Or Global warming summits where each planet saver flies solo in a big jet then gets whisked away in a giant Limousine to meetings where they try to decide what to do with the rest of us.


----------



## NYC Composer

No, those are closed meetings. Invite only, high security, people who say things they don't like don't get invited back the next year.

These are summits of billionaires or close.


----------



## chimuelo

Like global warming meetings eh?
,yeah those Damn cameras change a conversation don't they.
But alas the elites only want to save the little people.
They'll do what's best for common folk since they're helpless in the complex borderless world.


----------



## chimuelo

Just curious but aren't ALL Americans health records at the IRS now?
Why not get Clinton's or Trumps health records there?
Wasn't the ACA made so we could all be in this and that together?
Guess it's just for the commoners since they're helpless in the borderless complex world.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Tin foil hat theories aside, the left opposed CU while the right enabled it. Vote accordingly.


----------



## chimuelo

Loyalty based on cash donations for elections.
A Pelosi specialty.
Vote yes the DNC will not fund your next election.
Tulsi Gabbard can tell you all about that.
Speaking of real Liberals Warren finally got a yes from me for wanting prosecutions Fake Liberals passed on.
Do this to politicians and I'll believe in an honest Government again.

2020.
Hope and real change, not fake Liberal change.


----------



## JonFairhurst

In Portland, the city council funded elections. The rules were abused by some, so it was abolished. New rules with better safeguards are now proposed and are likely to pass.

Note 1: The Portland City Council is VERY liberal. And the members are mostly Democrats.

Note 2: I propose that voting for Hillary over Trump will make a profound difference in the Supreme Court regarding money in politics, though the effect might not be immediate or as strong as we'd like.

Note 3: Chim proposed nothing as usual. Just a negative rant that undermines the one practical action that we can take in the near term.


----------



## chimuelo

I propose honesty, real Liberals instead of the ones who get rich from poverty.
The Liberal elites in D.C. are history in case you didn't notice the trends of 2010/12 & 14.
Make room for Liberals who served thier community or country instead of the wealthiest whites so many here worship.
Seattle, Portland and Spokane are full of real Liberals.
I share values with local Liberals where I live.
Once the billionaires and lobbyists of D.C. and wealthy white leadership step on them they like the comfort and why fight City Hall again.
I saw this happen to Warren as she gets multiple salaries, etc. Typical Liberal pay offs from pressuring universities or foundations.
But her decision to send James Comey some files to seek indictments makes me think she's smarter now and will actually do the right thing.

Zen Master says we'll see.

As far as the Supremes I like balance.
No more activists that end up recusing themselves.
It does no good when they have a Biased history that forces a nullification.

I want Hillary to preside over GOP controlled house to avoid more disastrous judgements and excessive regime change followed by Liberal failures.
Then in 2020 get rid of GOP Leadership and bring in real representatives instead of 550 paid mouthpieces.

Hillary has already won.
The polls are bull shit.
She has the electoral wrapped up.
No candidate has ever won without a ground game.

So relax boss. The Liberals got another notch by having a women.
This is what's important.
Symbolism not substance.
The fake Liberal way.


----------



## Soundhound

I am not for balance on the Supreme Court. I think they should all be progressives. There should be no Republicans on the Supreme Court. They are all big fat stupidheads. 

I mean it.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Again, all rant, no action.

As a Marshawn Lynch fan, "It's all about that action, Boss."


----------



## chimuelo

No action?

Like the Liberal Super Majority we voted in to change the entire direction of the country and instead they partnered up with CEOs they demonized months earlier? No prosecustions on Wall Street CEOs (that continue funding Liberals)
No immigration, no tax reform, no nothing, do nothing lying bastards.
You mean those no action types?

No different than the last group of ass clowns in the GOP that promised action.
THIS IS WHY ALL of these losers and self serving dickbags are history...

This is why these 2 clown shows got the Sheep all fooled into thinking they are polarized and refuse to work together.
Those who lobby and pay them run the game, its not complex it's simple.
Get rid of the cash. the parasites that attach themselves to the host follow.

And Citizens United laws seem to benefit the Foundation and Hillary, Liberals might complain about foreign money but do you guys not pay attention to American Uranium, or Arms Deals to Saudi Arabias, recently followed by 38 Billion to Israel?

That's our money, do you remember getting a say so in where billions go while Liberal Neighborhoods erupt in fire and flames?

Yuze guys eventually will drop your left/right mamby pamby shit and smell the coffee.

Also progressivism?
Go to Nevada where Corporations pay for everything, freedoms no other states have, no such thing as starving children there unless the parents are junkies from Drugs flowing across the complex and borderless Liberal Nirvana....


----------



## JonFairhurst

Note to Baby Trump, ix-nay on the ass-chambers-gay...

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-trump-jr-clarifies-gas-chambers-remark-n649026


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

The interesting thing isn't that he invoked Godwin's Law - which he did - it's that the Txxxx campaign's strategy is to accuse Hillary of every one of their own flaws. You know, "Hillary is racist," or in this case "the media are tilted to Hillary."

Obviously the media coverage has been blatantly tilted toward Trump, because train wrecks get ratings. As Obama said a couple of days ago:

""One candidate’s family foundation has saved countless lives around the world. The other candidate’s foundation took money other people gave to his charity and then bought a 6-foot-tall painting of himself.

"I mean, he had the taste not to go for the 10-foot version!"

We saw the same BS last election from Republicans, and it's a clear indication of their intellectual level.


----------



## chimuelo

Ivanka's husband must be face palming from Txxxx's son's remarks.
Freudian slips are damming.

Liked your Trump aynogram Nick.


----------



## NYC Composer

Deplorable, that gas chamber remark.


----------



## chimuelo

Being a New Yorker you'd think the kid would know better.

I'm sure that went over like a Reggae Band at a Klan Rally with little sista.


----------



## Soundhound

I'm from New York. New York has its share of smarmy douchebags, racists, antisemites and the like. But in September, the weather is to die for.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Same with the weather in the Pacific Northwest. 

I was at a brew pub this evening. Our server was from Hawaii. I noted that the weather this week has been better than Hawaii. Perfectly clear. Highs in the low eighties. No humidity. 

In the meantime, Hawaii has "unsettled weather with the possibility of more heavy showers, thunderstorms, and flooding." And, in general, moderate to high humidity.

Then again, by late October, Hawaii will kick all our butts.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Deplorable, that gas chamber remark.


Absolutely.
You starting to see the pattern? Media bears down on Hillary's health, DNC leaks and others. In rides Trump to take the heat off her by saying (and having his kids say) stupid and offense things. That scenario has played itself out over and over this election.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, in my opinion they (at least Trump peré et fils) are stupid and offensive people.

I have nothing against hunting for food, but trophy hunters make me nauseous.

Regarding Papa, The fact that he won't just drop the birther crap already tells me everything I need to know about the kind of executive he'd be.


----------



## chimuelo

Interesting how there were nothing but Bernie and Trump stickers everywhere Ive been.
Bernie stickers and signs has disappeared, not one Hillary sticker or poster even in Liberal neighborhoods.
South Dakota, Iowa, Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee are all phobe family members, ists and isms.
Weather is beautiful.
Caught the limit on Crappe, Yellow Bass and Blue Cat.
Bikini clad slave girls served us at the Red Neck Riviera where racist Fisherman gather.


----------



## Baron Greuner

The idea of watching Hillary wear those bloody awful clothes for the next 4 years is the worst nightmare about all this so far. It's her shape though you see. She has this really weird wigwam of a fucking shape plus she's a midget! Ergo, she winds up having to wear blankets. Ghastly. 4 years of these clothes to come. God!

And if you want to see a female leader that is a total fashion victim, look no further than Theresa May. Jesus! Women of the world! FFS don't go round wearing inappropriate clothing! It's bad enough seeing males wearing shorts and shirts when they're morbidly obese weighing in at 30 stone! Having to watch Mother Theresa trying to pull her fucking skirt down during a meeting with the Chinese was almost to much to stand.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Sexist much, Baron?


----------



## JonFairhurst




----------



## JonFairhurst




----------



## JonFairhurst




----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I have nothing against hunting for food, but trophy hunters make me nauseous.


How can people enjoy killing? I drive _extra_ slow in my neighborhood so I won't hit a squirrel. I'm watching two playful squirrels out my back window and I can't imagine why anyone would want to kill them.


----------



## chimuelo

I have a bumper sticker that says "Caution: I speed up for small animals."

Mike unless you're a Vegan you enable animal genocide.

Hunting is vital for humanitarian reasons, if the herds are too large 1000s will starve to death.

Right now there 45,000 Wild Mustangs in fenced off facilities slated for euthanizing.
I've watched this for years in Nevada as there hundreds of thousands of wild horses roaming free.

They have learned to jump 8 foot fences, many are scarred from this.
Conservationists as myself can adopt these horses and raise them.
But as I said these are wild horses.
They often escape and return to the wild where most die naturally.

Fish and Game folks spend more time rounding up Mustangs than patrolling parks and lakes.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> I have a bumper sticker that says "Caution: I speed up for small animals."
> 
> Mike unless you're a Vegan you enable animal genocide.
> 
> Hunting is vital for humanitarian reasons, if the herds are too large 1000s will starve to death.
> 
> Right now there 45,000 Wild Mustangs in fenced off facilities slated for euthanizing.
> I've watched this for years in Nevada as there hundreds of thousands of wild horses roaming free.
> 
> They have learned to jump 8 foot fences, many are scarred from this.
> Conservationists as myself can adopt these horses and raise them.
> But as I said these are wild horses.
> They often escape and return to the wild where most die naturally.
> 
> Fish and Game folks spend more time rounding up Mustangs than patrolling parks and lakes.


I didn't say it's never necessary. I asked the question "How can people enjoy killing?". It's enjoying the kill that don't understand. Like the Trump boy posing with the trunk of the elephant he killed. r that girl posing with the giraffe she killed.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Chorus:
Hey, Bungalow Bill
What did you kill, Bungalow Bill?
Hey, Bungalow Bill
What did you kill, Bungalow Bill?

He went out tiger hunting with his elephant and gun
In case of accidents he always took his mom
He's the all American bullet-headed Saxon mother's son
All the children sing

[Chorus]

Deep in the jungle where the mighty tiger lies
Bill and his elephants were taken by surprise
So Captain Marvel zapped in right between the eyes, zap!
All the children sing

[Chorus]

The children asked him if to kill was not a sin
"Not when he looked so fierce", his mummy butted in
If looks could kill it would have been us instead of him
All the children sing

[Chorus]


----------



## chimuelo

Michael K. Bain said:


> I didn't say it's never necessary. I asked the question "How can people enjoy killing?". It's enjoying the kill that don't understand. Like the Trump boy posing with the trunk of the elephant he killed. r that girl posing with the giraffe she killed.



Just messing with you Mike.
I hunt Pheasant and Quail when the season starts up.
Same principle, when Fish & Game say it's time, you get 6 total Birds.

Every 3 or 4 years there's no licensing if the population isn't proven to be at the right levels.

I try and avoid eating any meat that has antibiotics.
Range free Chickens only, Tyson is just despicable and diseased ridden.
On occasion White Castles when travelling to gigs since there's little choice.
Them nasty bastards taste great though.


----------



## NYC Composer

Again, hunting for food, hunting to show what a large...umm...gun you have...different stories.


----------



## NYC Composer

What a bitter pill to swallow, but swallow he did. Donald Trump-the former birther. All is forgiven and forgotten (not).


----------



## chimuelo

Hillary loves having the Prez and 1st lady calling Trump a racist instead of her and Bill.
Now that the racist Black Cockus has spoken the freak show is over after a day.
The media tried to ignore Trump but after 1 day they fear ratings so DJT is back in the lime light lite.
Maybe the Queens script writers can try and be creative.
Brian Fallon is a fool.
So much other great material to use, but hard to get motivated when you know you already won the sweepstakes.


----------



## NYC Composer

The man who took this long to admit he's been a fact denier and a crazyoid racist all along is the freak show. All day, all night 24/7/365.


----------



## chimuelo

The whole bull shit process is a freak show.
Biden, Clintons....all racists in 2008 remember?

Sure it helps to win using such divisive lies and innuendos.
But its still lies used to win, lies used to stay, lies used to avoid public corruption.

A freak show.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yes, it does seem to be helping Trump
rouse the worst in people, you're right.


----------



## Soundhound

No I don't remember that at all. I do remember right wing bullshit artists on fox news claiming it over and over ad nauseam during the current election cycle though.



chimuelo said:


> Biden, Clintons....all racists in 2008 remember?


----------



## chimuelo

Because you're wasting time reading the Sinaloan Times.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Weak tea.


----------



## chimuelo

Maybe, but effective.

Then Obama decided a racist as Vice President and head of State was OK.

So when Liberals tell thier blacks they're gonna put cha'll back in chains it seems to work.

Biden gets a pass since he's going after GOP Racists as he scares folks into voting.

Folks were tired of the DNC race jive.
Trump gave them a reason to believe in it again.

Nobody helps out the losing Liberal party more than Trump.
They can't keep a seat in Congress but now the money is pouring in from investors.

So thank DJT in November for clearing the path.

Check out these Sheep below......


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> How can people enjoy killing?



I ask that question a lot.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> How can people enjoy killing? I drive _extra_ slow in my neighborhood so I won't hit a squirrel. I'm watching two playful squirrels out my back window and I can't imagine why anyone would want to kill them.


I'm not a vegan, so I'm complicit. I don't enjoy the fact that animals are killed for my dinner, but I don't give up meat, so I take equal responsibility with any hunter.

The culture of hunting and fishing is familial and cultural as well as practical (in some cases). As a meat eater, I can't judge it -but trophy hunting is truly nauseating, disgusting, small dick behavior.


----------



## NYC Composer

Crap. Bomb in NYC, game over, the imbecile gets elected as sheep flock to the moronic, full of shit authoritarian.

Just to piss me off a little more, it went off two blocks from my studio. I'm in at work anyway, 2 hrs later. Fuck 'em. They (whoever) can kill me but they can't fucking scare me.


----------



## chimuelo

Hillary is going to win.
The race was decided way back when.
Chill out bro. The Queen will take care of everyone.
After Benghazzi I think she learned a lesson or two.

Instead of signing Ankyu....
I chose to use 2 audio versions of ankyu using Roger De Bris voice.


----------



## NYC Composer

I've seen this movie before. Here comes Nixon II.


----------



## chimuelo

Soros and the Gulf Emirites have had such success with Obama/Holder/Sharpton nothing can interfere with thier complex borderless plans.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh good lord, Jimmy. Yeah, ok.


----------



## Soundhound

It's looking more and more possible every day. Nate Silver still has it as 60% chance of Clinton winning, but he got the republican nomination completely wrong and admits they had no idea how to calibrate for the new low of moronic Trump followers (something like that). 

I wish it would be Nixon II. As revolting, cynical, as amoral as that guy was, he wasn't an idiot. A closer comparison might be George Bush? Trump is just as stupid and entitled as W, but he's also a psychopath. This won't happen, this won't happen... 

It would be so comforting to believe in Jimmy's conspiracy theories, but to plan this the participants would have to be geniuses making Roger Aisles look like Melania Trump. None of this is planned. It's merely, as the characters in Bonfire of The Vanities described a police case where everyone loses, and loses badly—a piece of shit. 




NYC Composer said:


> I've seen this movie before. Here comes Nixon II.


----------



## chimuelo

They started fundraising for this back in 2008.
HRC was taking down payments for years, Trump has to be part of it.
Only in 2008 after Trumps candidate (HRC) lost did he start the birther movement in full force.

Also nobody knows if the "Foundation" took in more than 80,000,000 bucks at the party the other night, but 250,000 USD for a cover charge and over 400 people filled the Wealthy Liberal Mansion.

You don't spend that kind of money without some assurances.

Notice there's no leaked YouTube videos from there, Secret Service did chase off reporters trying to get near a window.
All windows guarded from the press....

This is a done deal.
My guess is the bombs that exploded were Siberian Separatists again...


----------



## Baron Greuner

Stunt? Stunt? That was a Russian stunt? WTF?

The American US Ambassador to the UN obviously knows something that no one else does.


----------



## chimuelo

I like Samantha Powers much better than lying Susan Rice.
Her husband brought us Obamacare.
Cass Sunstein thankfully didn't get his version implemented.
They don't like the fact of non productive elderly people being kept alive. Palin rightfully called these death panels.
Powers is an honest intelligent progressive.
She's done an excellent job of keeping our allies together and informed after HRC and Rice lied thier asses off after NATO stuck it's neck out, only to get it chopped off.

I'd be very happy knowing real progressives like Powers were more involved instead of the pay to play wealthy Liberals.
Those clowns would throw thier mother under the bus just to keep selling favors and access.

More and more I fear the explosion is a dry run.
Watching lame stream media speculate is depressing.
Morons were acting like it was an accident due to Tradesmen putting a welding tank in a dumpster?

Please....those are disconnected, chained to gang boxes and locked ONLY after resealed and disconnected.

Complete lapdog ratings driven college educated pansies.
With ZERO investigative journalistic skills.


----------



## Soundhound

TV news show are nothing of the kind. Investigative journalism has been cleaned out of network news entirely. I thought Gary Trudeau's take on Trump sounded about right. Trump got a taste of double digit approval ratings in 2012 and went for it this time just in the interest of getting a national blowjob for his ego. It worked much better than he thought it would; he stumbled into the Roger Ailes created insane, racist right wing, fed them all the red meat they could eat. He never expected to get the nomination. This is an accidental candidacy. And he could win.


----------



## chimuelo

It's going according to plan.
Even Mark Cuban was with Trump until he got the Nod.
Trump doesn't like being accountable but does delegate authority really well.
His organizational skills in building Towers is called fast track. Full of incentives, bonus based and motivating. His model for this is used globally.
But to sit and listen to others just isn't his thing.
Trump wins if he loses.
And loses if he wins.
The idea is the great Liberal conqueror beating the evil CEO.
Hillary fights for the commoners.
Trump fights for himself.
Good over evil.

We know this is all bull shit but there it is.
The world paid for a Clinton and they'll get one.

Fear not friends, the slaughter of the White Supremacist, Evil CEO, Bully and bigot will be displayed in the records ratings driven debate.

And the Sheep will clack thier hooves in approval.


----------



## Soundhound

What of Tyrion, Sercei and John Snow? As long as you're taking fiction to new levels, many of us are interested in the upcoming political results in Westeros as well.


----------



## chimuelo

It's not fiction.
It's just business bro.
Billions get passed around.


----------



## Soundhound

I know you say that. With 0.0000 pounds of evidence supplied of a conspiracy though, makes it tough on us here at the ranch.


----------



## chimuelo

Its comprhension.
Not being swayed by the pointed finger.

Like the boring birther nonsense.
Get those tired old Black Cockus guys pretending to be outraged all over again, check the polls....nope nothing changed.

OK call Kelly Conway up and have her tell Trump to insult another race, if theres any left.
Problem is Americans are racists so Trumps polls go up again.

Shit....okay, have his dummy son bring back the Fuhrer again, that should help.
Did you know ze Fuhrer vas a tellific dansah?
Nope, his numbers climbed again...?

Well, find some chicks he assaulted,....ooops....cant do that, they all had rape fantasies.

I think Trump will talk about invading Korea, this time north of Inchon right into Pyongyang.
Crowds cheering, finally the people say alright, vote for the Queen....

Easy money.


----------



## Red

Umm... Speaking as a South Korean (who served in the korean military), I'm all for invading North Korea. As long as the borders return to us and not china or russia.


----------



## chimuelo

Anyo Ha say oh.....(phonetically speaking)

Tiger Army are bad ass too.
Thanks for your service.

Liberals would want to give the North away as they fear offending folks.

Trump would let Samsung have it for a cut of thier annual gross.

Yuze guys could take it and have cheap labor for the next century until Liberals want to put them on welfare.


----------



## NYC Composer

Umm-in practical terms, how do you think that war would go, and given the North's nuclear capabilities, you think it wouldn't go nuclear?

Btw, would you be invading unilaterally, or would you be counting on big brother Uncle Sam for support?

Oh, and are you prepared to absorb and feed 30 million poor people?


----------



## Red

It's never going to be total war. When the north elites run out of steam, it's not gonna take much to take over. It's not like we're fighting the people over there.

And as for the Uncle Sam support, it's part of a treaty. Rivalry with Russia at the time i guess. Thanks tho.

And yes, I am willing to feed 30 million poor korean people. Who saids no to this?

It's not like we're taking in Syrian refugees or something. And within 10 years, utilizing the land mass alone will flip the economy.


----------



## NYC Composer

Bold plan. Good luck with that.

Meanwhile back at the election ranch, Nick B is doing Nick B stuff, makin' friends, takin' names, over at his alt-Trump thread. I wish I could figure out his positions-he's always shrouding them in obscurity.

Meanwhile, I just knew terrorism would ramp up before the election. ISIS is salivating at the idea of a Trump Presidency-thousands of new domestic recruits.


----------



## chimuelo

A tough, realistic and compassionate Composer.
My kind of guy...

Ankyu or Kam som e dah....


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't hate Trump voters. I don't hate much of anyone except people who think violence against unarmed civilians is an honorable way to express their ideologies, and even then I see the human flaws-poverty, religious inculcation, learned cultural xenophobia, lust for power, low information/low intelligence, the need to believe in racial
superiority, the list goes on and on.

What I think is hateful is the mindset that would celebrate a low information, narcissistic opportunist and skillful media manipulator like Trump.

Ayn Rand must be laughing in her grave. Her heroic and authoritarian Captain of Industry made flesh in all his breathless romantic glory. No empathy, no plan, just a huckster selling America a jingle-"Make America Great Again." The nostalgia for the white male-dominated 50s back when blacks and women knew their place and Hispanics were cute (and white) like Ricky Ricardo and Ricardo Montalban.

Richard Nixon was brilliant and Trump
is not, but the unlikeable Nixon was dogged and shrewd and so is Trump. He's the second coming of Nixon in his tactical outlook:

Law and order. Play the race cards and the urban fears. Take no guff from the outside world, use bellicose rhetoric, kick ass and take names. Hard to believe, but I liked Nixon better. He was another racist and wannabe authoritarian, but at least when he spoke to poor people about making their way and achieving, he did it from a difficult struggling childhood. Trump has never know a day of privation in his entire life. The idea that he's a populist fighting for the little people is ludicrous.

Science denial, shameless pandering to religious people he shares no values with, garnering conservative votes though he reflects no conservative principles, spewing vile racism and class warfare-it's all just manipulation and media chess. It's so transparent, but that's our country-attracted to shiny objects and brash entertaining bullshit.
We'll get what we deserve. We usually do.


----------



## Soundhound

Well said!


----------



## chimuelo

What did we do to deserve lying Liberals who sell out America to the highest bidder?
I voted for the America Obama spoke of and his promise of transparency.

You're right I suppose.
To trust the wealthy lying money grubbing Liberals to do anything other than payback thier investors was a long shot.

But Hillary will fix everything.
She promises everything will be great.
I can't wait for the free stuff she promised the commoners.


----------



## chimuelo

OMG Trump just read off a ridiculous poem.
Snakes and shit.
There were blacks held by gunpoint standing behind him.
Or maybe they were extras hired from a local SAG agency.


----------



## Soundhound

I'd answer that question, except there's no evidence for it. In particular, there is no evidence to say that liberals are more culpable than republicans in this regard. Actually all evidence is to the contrary.

I voted for Obama as well and wound up very disappointed. But considering that alternative was electing Sarah Palin as Vice President, my disappointment is well modulated.

Looking for that poem now. If I must...



chimuelo said:


> What did we do to deserve lying Liberals who sell out America to the highest bidder?


----------



## chimuelo

Dude the poem is sick.

Im telling you nobody ever thought Trump would exceed his main objectives of reducing the GOP to a splintered bunch of buffoons.

But the Liberals were suppose to emerge as the shining victors, but even after Trump handed them their victory the hackers basically exposed the lying Liberals as a bunch of self absorbed incompetents.
Calling voters white trash, or the Taco Belt area of the USA.

So we will see Trump just melt into an insane person to scare away the anti Liberal ground swell that stsrted in 2010.

The poem was just the beginning.
Pence wont ever say anything, hes probably waiting for a good gig somewhere in a Clinton admin.

Get Ivanka's sex tapes released where she dresses up as a Stormtrooper Girl like in the original Producers and lashes her Jewish husband while performing delicious maneurvers......yummy.

They have to do something as the Queen cant get a break.
The Foundation shit, health, pay to play, smashing phones full of Yoga videos........


----------



## Soundhound

Saw him reading The Snake. An old Al Wilson song apparently, retelling of an aesop fable. If shit like this doesn't create fear and hate, nothing will. The poison this sick fuck is is pouring into the world is incredible.


----------



## Soundhound

I didn't know that Chris Wallace is going to moderate the third and final debate. Not to put too fine a point on it, but: holy fucking shit.

http://billmoyers.com/story/theres-no-debate/


----------



## JonFairhurst

Do Americans really not understand this?


----------



## chimuelo

Coolness.
I hate seeing New Black Panthers not having some buddies to play race wars with.
The last President should not have delgegated authority to Sharpton/Soros/Holder. 
Hopefully Trump won't have them heading up his Civil Rights Division, no pun intended.


----------



## Soundhound

Comparing the black panthers with the kkk. Nice, Jimmy. Karl Rove called, he wants his playbook back.


----------



## chimuelo

I don't hate white people, so I can't vote for Soros/Clinton/BLM/Panthers.
I don't hate black people, so I can't vote for the KKK/Trump/Putin/Hilter/ racists.
So I vote for Gary Johnson, a record of success.

Oh but he doesn't know about Aleppo....#^$&$&$*...!!!

What's worse, not knowing about Aleppo, or not doing anything about even though you armed the civilians who are dying?

Yuze guys can play your namby pamby right/left freak show, have fun.

Regardless of who wins, Chimuelo will survive and support whoever wins, and prosper.
I do feel sorry for any person that feels without rich white folks guiding them through life, they are incomplete.

Im heading to what the DNC calls the Taco Belt again next week, gotta see my son and all of his mixed race friends you black and white folks seem to not realize are taking over before long.
Colin Kapernick made people mad, but he is also mixed race, who stands for him in this fake left/right bull shit run by billionaires and Foundation investors...?

​


----------



## Ashermusic

Boy, shows that I know. here I thought that the Clintons, Biden, and many others are white people and i don't hate them. My family are all white people and I don't hate them. I do hate David Duke and Donald Trump however, so I guess that makes me a self-loathing white person, right?


----------



## chimuelo

Then since they are racists, I assume you hate Liberals who say loud and clear they hate white people and want to kill them.
Haven't heard Trump or Duke wanting to kill anybody but thier message of racism is evident.

Glad you hate for a good cause.​


----------



## Ashermusic

Bat guano crazy nonsense.


----------



## chimuelo

Of course, it's outside your prism of bias.
Area 51 was also bat guano too remember, do you still think Nevadans were crazy conspiracy theorists, or have you accepted the fact you only know what you're told?

It was disclosed and fought against by Jonathan Turley, a real Liberal.
Not the fake wealthy ones who sell out America to please thier investors.


----------



## Ashermusic

As so eloquently stated by the Jack Nicholson character in As Good As It Gets, " Go peddle crazy somewhere else, we are all stocked up here."


----------



## chimuelo

I believe you.
It's all good bro.

Look forward to your review of Keyscape when you break down and buy it..


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> I don't hate white people, so I can't vote for Soros/Clinton/BLM/Panthers.
> I don't hate black people, so I can't vote for the KKK/Trump/Putin/Hilter/ racists.
> So I vote for Gary Johnson, a record of success.
> 
> Oh but he doesn't know about Aleppo....#^$&$&$*...!!!
> 
> What's worse, not knowing about Aleppo, or not doing anything about even though you armed the civilians who are dying?
> 
> Yuze guys can play your namby pamby right/left freak show, have fun.
> 
> Regardless of who wins, Chimuelo will survive and support whoever wins, and prosper.
> I do feel sorry for any person that feels without rich white folks guiding them through life, they are incomplete.
> 
> Im heading to what the DNC calls the Taco Belt again next week, gotta see my son and all of his mixed race friends you black and white folks seem to not realize are taking over before long.
> Colin Kapernick made people mad, but he is also mixed race, who stands for him in this fake left/right bull shit run by billionaires and Foundation investors...?
> 
> ​


Soros and Clinton hate white people? 

"Fact check on Aisle 7!" (said the tinny speaker)


----------



## chimuelo

Of course not.

This is a reversal on the 15-20 Klansmen getting major headlines.
If you vote for Trump you hate all races.
So I flipped it.

Just didn't want to post any Liberal Panther propoganda to help further thier hatred.

I voted for the President in spite of the kill the white people nonsense of a few who profit from hatred or the civil rights industry.

Just like both sides of the Coin.


----------



## NYC Composer

I probably missed it in my Newsmax feed, did the new Black Panthers endorse Obama, and did he say he didn't know who they were?


----------



## chimuelo

Sure, they threatened voters with clubs at voting polls, even got arrested for it. But prosecuting them meant you're a racist, so Holder let them go.

Clinton will be fundraising the entire time she's President, delegating authority to others so they can be blamed.

Trump will sign onto Fox for a 500,000,000 dollar deal where he can fire Mexicans, Jews and Blacks on his new show.

When they get fired, they're escorted from the stage by Klansmen.

The hills will remain and the rivers will flow.
Nothing will change, nothing ever does.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yeah, I remember-there's that famous picture of both of them.

No Jimmy, thing change. Iraq, torture, teenage women getting back room abortions, aid cuts to the poor and elderly, massive tax cuts for the super rich that bankrupt us further, more "law and order" mass incarcerations, more bjs for the military industrial complex, more ground forces back in the Middle East, more science denial, more demonizing of peaceful US Muslim citizens, more bellicose nuclear threats oh, lots of things could change.


----------



## Soundhound

Welcome to Jimmy's mescaline-lined parallel universe.



Ashermusic said:


> Bat guano crazy nonsense.


----------



## chimuelo

Anyone who doesnt believe American media must be whacko...
We have the finest liars in the world.
So many unanswered questions, but move ahead, follow the pointed finger.

Do folks here really believe 500 ISIS fighters rolled into an Iraqi battle group with 1200 M1 Abrahms tanks, 2300 HumVees and defeated them without a fight?

Or that Iraqi bankers with 550,000,000 dollars in cash saw the tiny trucks from a distance and fled leaving the cash?

So the 12,000 Iraqi soldiers saw the little Trucks rolling towards them, cowering in fear, left thier tanks and Humvees on foot as they felt the 300 mile walk would be easier than trying to flee in faster, heavily armed transports?

And Im tripping?

Hey what about the wife who drove her murdering husband to the gay club in Orlando several times, drove him to buy the weapons, then was picked up and questioned by police, then let go?

Now nobody can find her, but we got a lone bomber in 24 hours 2 days ago.

Yeah Im a whacko.

Nostradumbass says the Wells Fargo Banker goes free and this lame ass bi partisan beat down was for Sheep to believe our liars will protect us from evil CEOs.

How can chimuelo predict the future?
Easy.....Liberal billionaire investor Warren Buffet owns a big share in Wells Fatgo.

You honestly believe the dog and pony show?

Yeah Im tripping.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy-dude-you need to clear your RAM cache. There are too many electrons colliding.


----------



## chimuelo

The real news Larry is what investigative journalists are too scared to write about.

When I see google burying something I am researching I can add 2 + 2.

Got a spare minute?
Google Noor Zahi Salman.

Brickwall Limiter bro.

Folks selling laws must get lots of cash from google.
In return for the pay to play they can provide or deny information.

No wonder China told google to get out of town.


----------



## NYC Composer

But Jimmy-you have a new conspiracy theory every five minutes. It doesn't even matter if they're all true or no-it can't possibly be good for your psyche.


----------



## chimuelo

Well we hear new lies layered over lies every hour by the very people we are told to trust?

I dont think about old lies until I hear new lies.
When the recent bombs went off I immediately heard of another muslim guy with a wife.
Before any other distractions were absorbed I searched for Noor since the new trend is lone wolf muslims everyone knows are nuts, they all have wives thaf seem to know whats up, etc.
Thats when I saw the search results.
Didnt make sense to me to question the woman then let her go.
Then the DOJ and FBI after public pressure claimed they couldnt find her?

Bull shit.
But just tonight I get a feed about the new bad muslim guys wife and father knew what was up, and the report mentioned Noor Zahi but now claim she was questioned and they couldnt hold hef so she was released....??
Thats a different lie than the original one we were told.

As a guy who actually writes and finishes complete scores without starting another project I have a very good memory.

When I am being lied to I just want to know why people feel the need to do so and why they believe all Americans are ADA and cant remember things?
Maybe its true, they think we are mindless stepford wives.

You know sometimes I wish I didnt have such fortunate comprehension.

Patterns are in nature, as in music.
I see everything in patterns.

I see policemen in my soup.


----------



## NYC Composer

There's a word for people who see policeman in their soup, and it's not "balanced."


----------



## chimuelo

Balanced is a term to describe someone who fears change and accepts the status quo.
Sometimes a little revolution can clear out the cobwebs.

Maybe in 2020, as Hillary will do as instructed by her billionaires and global CEOs who pay for legislation guaranteeing them success in their complex, borderless society.


----------



## NYC Composer

That certainly fits in with the jihad narrative.


----------



## chimuelo

They love the complex borderless Liberal world.
Come and go from Quetta to NYC, no problem.
Only benefit I see about a Trumpian world is Liberals moving to Canada, and Jihadis not being allowed back in after getting training in Pakistan, Afghanistan or Syria.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, as long as they pass the ideology test, things should be fine.


----------



## Baron Greuner

The US have made a complete fuck up over Syria. The news channels here keep showing the US Ambassador to the UN that's fast become a laughing stock over here and I'm not surprised. The US under Obama made no efforts at all for 7 years to go anywhere in the world (apart from China where most of their workers are) and then suddenly they decide that they need to go into Syria because the Russians had given up waiting for any action from the US.
No one gives a shit about what Obama has to say about anything because he's gone in 3 months. The upside of this, is that any replacement (even my cat) for Obama, is going to seem viable.


----------



## NYC Composer

Did you name your cat Donald Trump? If not, I'd consider voting for him. Or her. It.

Yes, Obama has been awful. I hope you enjoy the new authoritarian cowboy. Y'all helped us so much with our last war in the Middle East, I'm sure you'll assist us nobly with the next one.

The brave humanistic Russians went into Syria to fix things! Bang up job they've done-and I mean that literally. They seem to have killed aid to the starving. Well done, sez I!

We certainly haven't fixed anything in Syria, but last I heard, neither had you Brexi-teers. I'm saddened that the mighty British Empire considers us a laughingstock. We barely consider you at all. Have a nice day, my dear Baron!


----------



## Baron Greuner

What this US election will show is one of two things.

Should Clinton win, it shows that in future elections, anyone standing with radical views or are seen to even have one iota of a threat to the benefits system to particularly latino and black voters, they have no chance of winning. That will be a mark to the end of US world dominance and make no mistake about it, because it's already out there. Any further inaction in the world for at least the next 4 years will be seen by other large powers as further signs of weakness.

Should Trump win, it shows that the bulk of American voters have deep concerns about how the homeland issues have been dealt with and will be looking for radical changes.

Neither of the two candidates will be able to deliver on anything. They are not up to it. The US needed much better candidates than they wound up with, and this has been the pattern for many years now.

Now it's hard ball time. The Russians do not give a flying fuck what the rest of the world thinks, particularly the USA.


----------



## NYC Composer

I hate that word "homeland'. It's the new authoritarian anti-terror buzzword. It reminds me very much of the endless war predicted in 1984, and here we are.

Yes, I agree-electing Donald Trump would certainly be a radical idea. Take the most narcissistic, least well informed huckster and put him in charge of the most powerful nation in the world. Too bad Nigel isn't running for you dudes-or maybe he will. We can get Nigel and Marine and Donald all elected, oh what bloody fun we'll have rounding up Muslims and dealing with enhanced jihad! Your European future is looking brighter and brighter.

Better hide your cat.


----------



## Baron Greuner

The new American National Anthem right here folks!


----------



## NYC Composer

Is that Sable?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Wow.

*Evan McMullin Turns Racist Voicemail From Trump Supporter Into Campaign Ad*

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppi...p-suppporter-i?utm_term=.jl8kMVLb3#.ivrkrpoOA


----------



## chimuelo

So a Liberal acting as a Trump supporter left a message.
Eeeew.....big story, nothing new.

I'm waiting for the 50 gopro cameras following David Duke around to catch him lynching a black and putting a Trump bumper sticker on him.

Lies work in America, just look at our great leaders fighting to make life better for us......( after investors get thier ROI).


----------



## chimuelo

Baron Greuner said:


> The new American National Anthem right here folks!




Actually Baron there's another song.

"There'll Never Be Another Ewe."


----------



## Baron Greuner

I thought you'd be impressed with all those sheep! Think of it as a gift fom JSB.


----------



## chimuelo

My gift to you is hard earned experience testing new technology for audio.
NVMe M.2s are catching on as they have no bottleneck like SATA III SSDs.
The problem is they get hot and throttle down, but still have fast random reads.
Samsung 950 Pros bench better, but these Plextors out perform them due to better firmware and an excellent heat spreader.
So we're even....


----------



## NYC Composer

Wrong forum or just breaking up the hilarity?


----------



## chimuelo

Temporary break from making America Great/Whole Again.
Im typing this from a 55" UHD screen.
Kontakt 5.6 and Bidule @ 4K.....
Awesomeness....

Trump is heading for Charlotte to try and settle down the Liberals.


----------



## NYC Composer

Maybe he'll stop and frisk a few.


----------



## chimuelo

Giuliani's coming along as he prosected Liberals successfully in NYC.
These cops arent being ordered to stand down anymore.
SWAT Snipers are on every roof top.
Why wont Obama get on TV and call for Liberals to stand down?
Maybe theres a fundraiser or something....


----------



## NYC Composer

Giuliani seems to be showing signs of incipient dementia.


----------



## chimuelo

Always liked the old dog though.

Im bothered that protocol demands to with hold the video until the investigation is complete.
Chief (race traitor) says the video prooves this but nobody believes the black cop (trump supporter).
All of this shit could have ended.

Maybe they need time to edit the video like in the movie Rising Sun with Wesley Snipes (tax cheat) and Sean Connery (sexist, masogynist).


----------



## NYC Composer

Goddamn lib'rals. Thank the Lord we have you to make us see the error of our sheepish ways.

Rudy Giuliani thought 9/11 was his ticket to another term as mayor. Turned out Mike Bloomberg wasn't willing to wait, and had lots more money.

For all that Mike was excoriated for his lib'rals ways, he loved real estate developers, same as Giuliani and now De Blasio. Between them all, they made Manhattan into a Disney theme park while increasing the tax base and making it safe for chain stores and restaurants. People come to Times Square and eat at The Olive Garden. Just like home, but with neon!


----------



## chimuelo

Olive Garden.......sheesh.
Thats entry level Italian food.
Barely any fennel seed in thier salsiccia (sal zeet sah)
Ragu white sauce..


----------



## Baron Greuner

Jimmy I'm sooooo looking forward to meeting Hilly when she's President. What's the protocol for a Madam President?

Do I shake hands, or can I chooch her cheeks?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Baron Greuner said:


> Jimmy I'm sooooo looking forward to meeting Hilly when she's President. What's the protocol for a Madam President?
> 
> Do I shake hands, or can I chooch her cheeks?


Hold up a big sign right in her face with a photo of an aborted fetus on it. That's what I'd do.


----------



## woodsdenis

Release your Tax returns.


----------



## woodsdenis

Michael K. Bain said:


> Hold up a big sign right in her face with a photo of an aborted fetus on it. That's what I'd do.


The usual crazy response from a man telling women what to do with their own bodies. Pathetic Michael.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

woodsdenis said:


> The usual crazy response from a man telling women what to do with their own bodies. Pathetic Michael.


What's pathetic is that you don't value the lives of our most innocent and defenseless humans.


----------



## woodsdenis

Michael K. Bain said:


> What's pathetic is that you don't value the lives of our most innocent and defenseless humans.


Good god you are deranged, what I believe for myself is one thing, what I don't do is force my personal or religious beliefs on others. That is what you strive to do.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

woodsdenis said:


> Good god you are deranged, what I believe for myself is one thing, what I don't do is force my personal or religious beliefs on others. That is what you strive to do.


You idiot. This is not simply a "personal" or "religious" belief. Prolifers know that abortion is the killing of innocent human life, and this is based on science. Of course we want it to be made illegal. Do you want murder to be legal?


----------



## woodsdenis

Michael K. Bain said:


> You idiot. This is not simply a "personal" or "religious" belief. Prolifers know that abortion is the killing of innocent human life, and this is based on science. Of course we want it to be made illegal. Do you want murder to be legal?


I am certainly not an idiot , you on the other hand are really a nasty and despicable human being, go and debate with your fellow klansmen about this if you want. Do you really not have any sympathy for women who are pregnant who have no other choice, FFS get a grip and learn compassion, it is a christian value I believe.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

woodsdenis said:


> I am certainly not an idiot , you on the other hand are really a nasty and despicable human being, go and debate with your fellow klansmen about this if you want.


You accused me of being a Klansman when I have never ever said anything about race in these forums. Such a baseless claim is not nasty? That's not despicable? You hypocrite.



woodsdenis said:


> Do you really not have any sympathy for women who are pregnant who have no other choice,



Yes, I have sympathy. That doesn't mean I condone killing innocent human life.

As far as "having no other choice", there are alternatives to having abortions. Women choose these alternatives every day.



woodsdenis said:


> FFS get a grip and learn compassion, it is a christian value I believe.


You tell me to have compassion? That's rich. You have no compassion for the most innocent and defenseless human beings.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

I apologize to those reading this thread for my suggestion to Baron on how he should greet Clinton. I was not the one asked, and I shouldn't have said it. It didn't have anything to do with this topic. My anger with Clinton got he best of me.


----------



## woodsdenis

Michael K. Bain said:


> You accused me of being a Klansman when I have never ever said anything about race in these forums. Such a baseless claim is not nasty? That's not despicable? You hypocrite.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have sympathy. That doesn't mean I condone killing innocent human life.
> 
> As far as "having no other choice", there are alternatives to having abortions. Women choose these alternatives every day.
> 
> 
> You tell me to have compassion? That's rich. You have no compassion for the most innocent and defenseless human beings.



Seriously you are not worth even debating, you openly support the extreme right wing agenda as is displayed by your postings , if you are not in the Klan you might as apply as your a perfect fit. You support a racist bigot for president who has stated that women should be prosecuted for having terminations. You have absolutely no idea what you are asking women to do, if for example they are raped or have a fatal foetal abnormality, your agenda is to make these women carry to a full term. What type of heartless cretin are you and your ilk. No further comment on this with you.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

woodsdenis said:


> You support a racist bigot for president who has stated that women should be prosecuted for having terminations.


You need to learn how to read. I have been VERY vocal about my loathing of Hillary and Trump. I have said many times that I am voting 3rd party.


----------



## woodsdenis

Michael K. Bain said:


> You need to learn how to read. I have been VERY vocal about my loathing of Hillary and Trump. I have said many times that I am voting 3rd party.


You should learn how to STFU, after your "Liberals kill babies" post I don't pay any attention to your vile and obnoxious ranting. Go get a life and a conscience.


----------



## JonFairhurst

We pass laws against stealing, murder, assault, and rape and we enforce them because we have consensus on these things being unacceptable in our society. In addition...

A good person might (or might not) say, 
* I believe that abortion is wrong
* I believe that some religions ideas are wrong
* I believe that gambling is bad
* I believe that drinking is bad
* etc...
...so *I *won't do them.

An authoritarian might say,
* I believe that abortion is wrong
* I believe that some religions ideas are wrong
* I believe that gambling is bad
* I believe that drinking is bad
* etc...
...so *I won't let others* do them. In fact, *let's punish the evil doers!
*
Don't be an authoritarian. And don't vote for one either.

That said, people who oppose abortion should freely speak with others to persuade them not to take that path. And they should put effort into providing other alternatives. By doing that, one respects the judgments of others while still meeting their goals of reducing abortion. It's a win win! 

And keep in mind that when abortion was illegal, there were still abortions. Example: drugs are illegal, but we still have drug use. The authoritarian instinct of increasing punishment just causes more harm.

Currently, only 19% of Americans feel that abortion should be illegal under all circumstances. [Gallup, May 2016] Please view abortion as a personal choice and act accordingly. Don't be an authoritarian.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

woodsdenis said:


> You should learn how to STFU, after your "Liberals kill babies" post I don't pay any attention to your vile and obnoxious ranting.


That was the one time I made a sweeping generalization about all liberals, and I did it for a specific reason. Here is the story behind that post; there are a couple of members of this forum that are always making sweeping generalizations against conservatives. When I posted that, I did it specifically to make a point to them. You of course do not believe me, but I PMed a well-respected member of the forum that very day and explained why I did it and why I deleted it. He can verify my explanation.



woodsdenis said:


> Go get a life and a conscience.


Funny, that's what I would tell you.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> We pass laws against stealing, murder, assault, and rape and we enforce them because we have consensus on these things being unacceptable in our society. In addition...
> 
> A good person might (or might not) say,
> * I believe that abortion is wrong
> * I believe that some religions ideas are wrong
> * I believe that gambling is bad
> * I believe that drinking is bad
> * etc...
> ...so *I *won't do them.
> 
> An authoritarian might say,
> * I believe that abortion is wrong
> * I believe that some religions ideas are wrong
> * I believe that gambling is bad
> * I believe that drinking is bad
> * etc...
> ...so *I won't let others* do them. In fact, *let's punish the evil doers!
> *
> Don't be an authoritarian. And don't vote for one either.
> 
> That said, people who oppose abortion should freely speak with others to persuade them not to take that path. And they should put effort into providing other alternatives. By doing that, one respects the judgments of others while still meeting their goals of reducing abortion. It's a win win!
> 
> And keep in mind that when abortion was illegal, there were still abortions. Example: drugs are illegal, but we still have drug use. The authoritarian instinct of increasing punishment just causes more harm.
> 
> Currently, only 19% of Americans feel that abortion should be illegal under all circumstances. [Gallup, May 2016] Please view abortion as a personal choice and act accordingly. Don't be an authoritarian.


JonFairhurst,
I do appreciate you well thought-out post. But please understand that prolifers don't wish to criminalize abortion simply because we think it's wrong. We think with all our mind and believe with all our heart that abortion is the killing of an innocent human and therefore must be made illegal just as murder of an adult is illegal.


----------



## woodsdenis

Michael K. Bain said:


> That was the one time I made a sweeping generalization about all liberals, and I did it for a specific reason. Here is the story behind that post; there are a couple of members of this forum that are always making sweeping generalizations against conservatives. When I posted that, I did it specifically to make a point to them. You of course do not believe me, but I PMed a well-respected member of the forum that very day and explained why I did it and why I deleted it. He can verify my explanation.
> 
> 
> Funny, that's what I would tell you.



Of course you would, and a nearly believable explanation for a disgusting post, so why did you post the following on the last page.

*Hold up a big sign right in her face with a photo of an aborted fetus on it. That's what I'd do.
*
You seem to have a rather unhealthy fascination for dead babies.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

woodsdenis said:


> Of course you would, and a nearly believable explanation for a disgusting post, so why did you post the following on the last page.
> 
> *Hold up a big sign right in her face with a photo of an aborted fetus on it. That's what I'd do.
> *


*
*
What does that have to do with a post that made a sweeping generalization against all liberals? I did not believe what I wrote, as i explained to the forum member.
However, Hillary is a specific person who not only believes in abortion without restrictions but also supports Federal funding of Planned Parenthood who was caught making arrangements for trafficking in baby parts.
You may believe in abortion without restriction and fed funding for PP, but I do not call you a baby killer because you are not in a position to do anything about it. Clinton is. *
*


woodsdenis said:


> You seem to have a rather unhealthy fascination for dead babies.



Seriously? You think that wanting to stop the killing of innocent humans is unhealthy?


----------



## woodsdenis

Idiots


----------



## woodsdenis

Michael K. Bain said:


> What does that have to do with a post that made a sweeping generalization against all liberals? I did not believe what I wrote, as i explained to the forum member.
> However, Hillary is a specific person who not only believes in abortion without restrictions but also supports Federal funding of* Planned Parenthood who was caught making arrangements for trafficking in baby parts.*
> You may believe in abortion without restriction and fed funding for PP, but I do not call you a baby killer because you are not in a position to do anything about it. Clinton is.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? You think that wanting to stop the killing of innocent humans is unhealthy?




http://www.npr.org/2016/01/28/46459...ood-investigations-find-no-fetal-tissue-sales

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-complete-the-discrediting-of-their-planned-parenthood-investigation/2016/04/20/8af4e920-0732-11e6-a12f-ea5aed7958dc_story.html?utm_term=.5afe2ddf4e30

http://www.salon.com/2016/04/21/gop...cipating_in_anti_planned_parenthood_protests/


Seriously read the news sometime.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Denis you're over reacting.

Most media information is crap. I watch Sky News every now again. Crap. I don't read any newspapers. Ever. Crap. I try to rule crap out of my life and so should you.

Clinton and Trump. Why even bother to back either one of them Denis? They are both fucking nutters in their own way and it's no good saying one is less so than the other.


----------



## chimuelo

Baron Greuner said:


> Jimmy I'm sooooo looking forward to meeting Hilly when she's President. What's the protocol for a Madam President?
> 
> Do I shake hands, or can I chooch her cheeks?



Just bring a Bimbo for Bill.
When he walks her off to the Secret Service Abducto Van it reduces the size of Hillary's SS Detail.
She can then whisk you away for a donation to the foundation while Bill adds the Bimbo to the Foundations salary payroll.
He's got a fine ass looking one who comes by the house all the time.
Think she owns a global warming company or something.
That way if anyone dare ask questions about her salary they'll be called flat earthers, anti intellectual or CeeOhTwo Phobists.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> Hold up a big sign right in her face with a photo of an aborted fetus on it. That's what I'd do.


Based on that image, I have to go back to your being a single issue voter Michael, or perhaps better put, a very very primary issue voter at best. It's really why you consider her "evil", not her emails or Benghazi or whatnot.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Denis you're over reacting.
> 
> Most media information is crap. I watch Sky News every now again. Crap. I don't read any newspapers. Ever. Crap. I try to rule crap out of my life and so should you.
> 
> Clinton and Trump. Why even bother to back either one of them Denis? They are both fucking nutters in their own way and it's no good saying one is less so than the other.


Yes, just as Bush and Gore were both nutters. Sadly, the one who got elected us took us into a long bloody war with a country that had no credible threat. Thankfully our cousins across the sea supported us in our gleeful adventurism. Won't it be fun when we're together again wreaking more havoc in the Middle East??


----------



## chimuelo

Larry, interesting point that Kellyanne Conway brought up.

Do you believe the Clinton's would take care of unfinished business if elected, like GDubya did when he went Oval?

I must say this gal always seems to see angles nobody else thinks of.


----------



## chimuelo

I always said GDubya wanted Hussein hung for sending Iraqi assassins after his dad when he visited Kuwait.

The Investors in politics had better let Kellyanne C. know Trump is suppose to lose, stop being so proficient and play along.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Michael K. Bain said:


> JonFairhurst,
> I do appreciate you well thought-out post. But please understand that prolifers don't wish to criminalize abortion simply because we think it's wrong. We think with all our mind and believe with all our heart that abortion is the killing of an innocent human and therefore must be made illegal just as murder of an adult is illegal.



So hypothetically, if I gave you this choice with absolute guarantees, which would you take:

1) Abortion is illegal throughout the US and its territories. Abortion rates are reduced, but are still high. Deaths during abortions (illegal and across the border) increases sharply. New "abortion pills" are developed and sold on the black market, leading to more deaths. Suicide among pregnant teens increases sharply. Those who support legal abortion promote abortion among teens as a means of protest. The pro-life movement focuses on preserving the law.

2) Abortion remains legal throughout the US. Resources. The pro-life movement focuses on providing alternatives to abortion and education aimed at encouraging these alternative choices. Abortion rates are significantly lower than in case 1 and incidental deaths are near zero.

Of course, you would want both 1 and 2. In this thought experiment, that's not an option. Which would you choose? Law or grace? 

Cause above, it sounded like punishment for what you think of as murder is a key goal.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, what unfinished business?


----------



## chimuelo

Don't know since the question was not asked. Maybe pardons for tax cheats in exchange for Foundation donations?

Here's a pretty interesting interview.
Especially when they took a commercial break and played a Trump campaign ad.


----------



## NYC Composer

"Interview"?? That's "Between Two Ferns", the best comedy around!


----------



## chimuelo

Speaking of comedy.
Trump was visiting a local cook off and visited the annual event.
Local news was covering him at the winners booth.
Hose BBQ had won the award of the year.
So they asked him what was he going to do next time he comes through the area.
He replied "Get some Hose" and it seems to have offended local Liberals.
But what a commercial that would make for the owner.....


----------



## Soundhound

Michael is a radical religious zealot. Everyone is free to say whatever they want, and if a religious maniac says what he or she thinks, what they get in response from normal, non-medieval thinkers should not come as a surprise to them. In Michael's case however, he is always surprised, often his feelings get hurt. Very much like Donald Trump, whose feelings are also easily hurt. These people act like spoiled children. They want what they want, when they want it.


----------



## Soundhound

Equating Clinton and Trump is not just wrong, it's dangerous. Trump is an existential threat, a psychopath. Clinton may be bought and sold (I'm not convinced one way or the other) but she's eminently qualified for the job she's seeking. Anything, and I mean anything, that helps pave the way for Trump to win the presidency endangers everyone.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael is religious. He has very strong opinions, and I deeply disagree with some of them. However, the words "radical" and "zealot" are subjective.
For a good example, would you consider Nick to be a "radical atheistic liberal zealot"? If so, I guess you could characterize Michael in the way you have...but it puts a lot of people with strong opinions in that category.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Michael, leaving aside that what you're saying about Hillary's positions on defending a woman's right to choose and protecting Planned Parenthood is simply incorrect...



> We think with all our mind and believe with all our heart that abortion is the killing of an innocent human and therefore must be made illegal just as murder of an adult is illegal.



Then how do you justify voting for the Libertarian Party asshole? That's actually the one thing I agree with them about: it's a personal decision!

http://www.lp.org/platform

***
This is why Hillary is such a great candidate and why I'm "so filled with hate" (according to the projection from actual people filled with hate) because I say anyone who doesn't vote for her is an idiot - and what I actually think, now that Txxxx has been getting worse and worse by the day, is much stronger:

http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/hillary-clinton-policy-agenda/


----------



## Soundhound

I respectfully disagree. Michael feels that abortion is murder, and that those involved in abortions are murderers. In a modern society, rather than a primitive society, that is a barbaric point of view. It is completely fed by his religious beliefs. Michael will go on ad infinitum about how his view is science based, but I went through it very carefully with him months ago, and when called him on the flaws in his argument, he disappeared. He is very much like the Trump supporters in the Daily Show video - when faced with the fallacy in their argument, they are left with 'well that's what I believe', with no basis. 

This kind of regressive thought is rampant, and Donald Trump is pouring gasoline on the ignorant fire. I can't think of anything Nick has said that I consider radical or the beliefs of a zealot. It's not about strong opinions, it's about opinions which impinge on other people's rights. It's what has fed the right wing increasingly over the last 30 years. They feel like they are right and everyone else is wrong, and are deaf to any discussion. They are dangerous, and have done deep and lasting damage to the country. 



NYC Composer said:


> Michael is religious. He has very strong opinions, and I deeply disagree with some of them. However, the words "radical" and "zealot" are subjective.
> For a good example, would you consider Nick to be a "radical atheistic liberal zealot"? If so, I guess you could characterize Michael in the way you have...but it puts a lot of people with strong opinions in that category.


----------



## chimuelo

Nick Batzdorf said:


> This is why Hillary is such a great candidate and why I'm "so filled with hate" (according to the projection from actual people filled with hate) because I say anyone who doesn't vote for her is an idiot



I'm a very happy idiot.....

And I agree about your support of abortion. 
Can you imagine the size of these riots if abortion was illegal?

All in all Liberal segregation policies, while I loathed them for years, are proving to be effective.
Looters can be contained to Liberal neighborhoods much easier.

So it's tough not to vote for the wealthy white Liberal containment policies.
OTOH New Mexico's Governor has a record of success.

It's not the white queen has been wrong....She's never been right...


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, Nick has stated that all conservatives are and anyone who supports Trump is evil/stupid. I find that to be an opinion that could possibly be called "zealotry."

See, I like to have discussions about facts sans unnecessary and inflammatory rhetoric. That philosophy is not that of the zealot.


----------



## Soundhound

I would agree that anyone who supports Trump is evil or stupid. Never having met an actual Trump supporter, it's a supposition, but one I feel comfortable making. I don't think it's hyperbolic, but always eager to be proven wrong. Here's a white glove for ya, if anyone can find a Trump supporter who is not an asshole or a moron, let that be brought before the 'Year of Trump' court as evidence!

Legal disclaimer: Jimmy doesn't count, he has renounced Trump. And anyway I'm not convinced that Jimmy isn't actually David Byrne doing a performance piece...


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm guessing at least 20% of the country supports Trump, so you are assigning evil or stupidity to 1 out of 5 people in the country.

Ya gotta move, dude.

You know, I hate any single statement I make to be taken out of context, so:

1. Unless a decomposing body is found in her closet, I will be voting for HRC. I am far from pleased with her, but I think the spectre of Trump is dreadful and chilling.

2. I disagree with most zealotry whether religious, political or of any other stripe, but I believe the abortion debate to be insoluble. In the long run, hopefully public opinion will rule the day, although it doesn't seem to have done so in the debate about guns.

3. In terms of nativism, racism, authoritarianism and more, I think Trump supporters are dead wrong. However, this is what happens when an established system with all its cronyism and corruption continues for too long-people make bad choices just to throw the bums out. It's happened many times in political cycles-I'm hoping that reflexivity doesn't decide this election-this race has rattled the foundations, and like Chim, I'm hoping the next one brings it all down.

I'm unwilling to ascribe evil or stupidity to everyone who I disagree with, even vehemently. Some, sure. All-well...zealotry.


----------



## Soundhound

You don't think it's possible that 20% of the united states is stupid? 50 million people voted for George W Bush. Twice! I don't feel I'm going out on a limb by saying they are stupid. Actually I think I'm being charitable, considering what that guy did.


----------



## chimuelo

Then youll understand by removing Liberals and Conservatives from office voters are doing not just the country but the world a favor.

Just curious to see how informed folks are here about the 3 wars we are involved in right now.

Where are we refueling bombers that strike "targets" on a daily basis?


----------



## NYC Composer

Or evil! Like Satan!

Calling people "evil"...isn't that what religionists like to go for?


----------



## Soundhound

Okay, not evil. Selfish.


----------



## NYC Composer

That word is better for me. Even better-lacking fellowship, lacking empathy, self interested, self absorbed, fearful, incurious, religiously biased, economically challenged, cultural inculcated or familialy influenced.....

There are so many ways to describe people you think are wrongheaded by actually ascribing sociological differences between you and them, but stupid and/or evil is the more facile way to go. Saves time in an argument, I suppose.

I truly doubt there's much hope for any change of hardened positions that people hold dear. However, I strongly suspect that calling people either "stupid or evil" is ineffective at best, counterproductive at worst.


----------



## Soundhound

Fair enough. But selfishness so often results in stupidity. You could tease it apart and say that someone acted stupidly, not that they are stupid. The problem I have with that is that the left has gone mute for so long, that tiptoeing around doesn't cut it. The right wing has framed the dialogue for decades. It's high time to call 'em like you see 'em.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm too exhausted to rail against generalizations anymore, especially when we agree on most of the politics- so have at it.


----------



## Soundhound

If you can't beat 'em, wear 'em down or bore the shit out of 'em.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Based on that image, I have to go back to your being a single issue voter Michael, or perhaps better put, a very very primary issue voter at best. It's really why you consider her "evil", not her emails or Benghazi or whatnot.


Her abortion views are one of my top concerns, but I don't trust Trump's supposed "prolife" stance, either. He has changed his views too many times. Just like on all issues.
but I do find it evil to knowingly lie to a grieving father about the reason his son was killed and to pin the blame on the video producer.
There are many other concerns as well.
The email stuff? I don't necessarily consider that "evil". I think she purposely subverted the law and put national security at grave risk, and should be jailed. But on an "evil" level, I don't put that on par with mocking a disabled man or having affairs with married women and bragging about it.
I have said from Day One that Trump is evil.
Quite frankly, I don't know which one is more evil. But I don't have to vote for either person I consider evil, and i won't.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> So hypothetically, if I gave you this choice with absolute guarantees, which would you take:
> 
> 1) Abortion is illegal throughout the US and its territories. Abortion rates are reduced, but are still high. Deaths during abortions (illegal and across the border) increases sharply. New "abortion pills" are developed and sold on the black market, leading to more deaths. Suicide among pregnant teens increases sharply. Those who support legal abortion promote abortion among teens as a means of protest. The pro-life movement focuses on preserving the law.
> 
> 2) Abortion remains legal throughout the US. Resources. The pro-life movement focuses on providing alternatives to abortion and education aimed at encouraging these alternative choices. Abortion rates are significantly lower than in case 1 and incidental deaths are near zero.
> 
> Of course, you would want both 1 and 2. In this thought experiment, that's not an option. Which would you choose? Law or grace?
> 
> Cause above, it sounded like punishment for what you think of as murder is a key goal.


What I would like (and think likely) is that if abortion is criminalized, there will be a consolidated effort to put out real information about abortion to women in need. Sonograms and fetal development timelines will take major roles in this. For too long, Young women have been pushed into the belief that a fetus is just a tissue blob. When most young women start to see what a fetus really is, they will not wish to have abortions, because they will not want to kill a human life. They will get helped by the many charities that exist to help crisis pregnancies.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael is religious. He has very strong opinions, and I deeply disagree with some of them. However, the words "radical" and "zealot" are subjective.
> For a good example, would you consider Nick to be a "radical atheistic liberal zealot"? If so, I guess you could characterize Michael in the way you have...but it puts a lot of people with strong opinions in that category.


Thank you for the defense, good man.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> That word is better for me. Even better-lacking fellowship, lacking empathy, self interested, self absorbed, fearful, incurious, religiously biased, economically challenged, cultural inculcated or familialy influenced.....
> 
> There are so many ways to describe people you think are wrongheaded by actually ascribing sociological differences between you and them, but stupid and/or evil is the more facile way to go. Saves time in an argument, I suppose.
> 
> I truly doubt there's much hope for any change of hardened positions that people hold dear. However, I strongly suspect that calling people either "stupid or evil" is ineffective at best, counterproductive at worst.


You make a dent in me, NYC. You stir at my heart. Not in my positions, but in the way I speak about certain people on the left. By always labeling Hillary evil, I am in a way cheapening the word and stripping it of some of its meaning.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Then how do you justify voting for the Libertarian Party asshole? That's actually the one thing I agree with them about: it's a personal decision!
> 
> http://www.lp.org/platform


I am not going to or ever intended to vote Libertarian Party.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

To all: NYC Composer has made some very good points about labeling and demonizing the opposition. I am convicted of my role in this and will try to do better.


----------



## NYC Composer

...well, I'm insidious, Michael. Guard your positions closely.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> ...well, I'm insidious, Michael. Guard your positions closely.


You're my favorite liberal. Even more so than Bono. Well, maybe not Bono.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, Bono wins that battle hands down.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Oh, Bono wins that battle hands down.


Bono gets on my nerves sometimes, but he's got a great heart and he has helped so many people.


----------



## Soundhound

Religious zealots who wish to impose their primitive superstition on others should be given no cover or comfort, under any circumstances. Ever.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hmmm. Who has given "cover" to what/who?


----------



## NYC Composer

In my experience, pretty much everyone in the world wants to impose their views, primitive or otherwise, on others.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Michael K. Bain said:


> What I would like (and think likely) is that if abortion is criminalized, there will be a consolidated effort to put out real information about abortion to women in need. Sonograms and fetal development timelines will take major roles in this. For too long, Young women have been pushed into the belief that a fetus is just a tissue blob. When most young women start to see what a fetus really is, they will not wish to have abortions, because they will not want to kill a human life. They will get helped by the many charities that exist to help crisis pregnancies.



You tried to avoid my question, but you clearly answered it. Your real agenda is criminalization and punishment. There is no need to criminalize abortion to tell the fetus story. In fact, at OMSI (a science museum in liberal Portland), Oregon, there is a fetus display that pretty much all school children and their parents see. Yet, the state is firmly pro-choice and was the first in the nation with the Death with Dignity law.

You are clearly an authoritarian, whether you admit it or not.

How about if I decide how you should live your life and punish you if you don't comply? Authoritarianism doesn't sound so attractive when the tables are turned.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Michael, i thought that was who you're voting for?


----------



## NYC Composer

JonFairhurst said:


> You tried to avoid my question, but you clearly answered it. Your real agenda is criminalization and punishment. There is no need to criminalize abortion to tell the fetus story. In fact, at OMSI (a science museum in liberal Portland), Oregon, there is a fetus display that pretty much all school children and their parents see. Yet, the state is firmly pro-choice and was the first in the nation with the Death with Dignity law.
> 
> You are clearly an authoritarian, whether you admit it or not.
> 
> How about if I decide how you should live your life and punish you if you don't comply? Authoritarianism doesn't sound so attractive when the tables are turned.



Maybe not, but you can't beat the dancing that occurs!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Larry, Txxxx is openly racist and fascist.

You have the nerve to call me a zealot for saying anyone who supports that evil pig is an idiot?

What's wrong with you? Where's your outrage?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Put another way: how can a sane person's head not be exploding?


----------



## NYC Composer

screw it.


----------



## NYC Composer

@Nick-on consideration, you're right. I don't believe in name calling, so I shouldn't have called you anything.
I apologize.

On the flip side, we agree on practically everything except style, and we both seem to think style matters- therefore the butting of heads. Pax.


----------



## Soundhound

I was overstating for effect, sorry. I often think I'm being hilarious, when the joke doesn't come across and no fun ensues. I didn't mean you were doing that. 

In the larger sense though, I totally mean it. Religious bigotry and zealotry are to be fought at every turn, I do believe religion in the end is a great evil—you never know where the next witch trial is waiting to gather steam. I think it's something we will outgrow eventually, but we're just a few steps out of the caves at this point, primitive fear and superstition are still a large part of our thought process. 

I'm not sure everyone wants to impose their views on everyone else. I'm an atheist, but I don't want to talk everyone into being to be an atheist. I'm a Knick fan, and I wouldn't wish that on a republican! (Though this year could be fun, and ultimately disappointing of course, stay tuned). I just don't want anyone else telling me how to lead my life, unless I'm hurting someone else. Then they get a say. 



NYC Composer said:


> Hmmm. Who has given "cover" to what/who?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Michael, i thought that was who you're voting for?


Nope, never even considered it.


----------



## NYC Composer

I can't watch my formerly beloved Knicks anymore. Dolan has ruint the franchise. He needs a spankin'. 

Maybe not your atheism, but wouldn't you like to impose compassion on people? Civility? Reason? I sure would, though I've had very limited success.

Regarding religion-having left behind any thought of God-worship many years ago and being no fan of organized religion (all religions should lose tax exempt status in my view) I hear ya. There is little I find in life that's more hypocritical than the idea of religions that preach love and compassion then turn around and do the opposite. To me though, it's more nuanced. Not all religionists want to sell you their philosophies or force them on you. There is a tremendous amount of very difficult and dangerous charity work done religiously. Work with the sick and the poor. The disadvantaged, the hungry. Some wonderful people are people of faith. Hundreds of important figures throughout history.

Also, if faith gives people comfort in a world filled with such existential fear and they can keep from proselytizing, killing or trying to remake the political world in the name of it, I'm okay with it. When those things happen I'm right there with you.

Human nature though, with or without religion, seems plenty bloody to
me. Hitler. Stalin. Mao. Pol Pot. Duvalier. Trujillo. Pinochet. Pahlavi. Mubarak, just to name a few. They didn't need no stinkin' religion to do their thing...

I just find broad generalizations so facile at this point in my life.

Back to topic. Anything Trump says about his "faith" is said so insincerely, it's quite obvious he's not religious in the least He barely covers up his obvious disinterest. It's, as usual, totally disingenuous.


----------



## chimuelo

Liberal Theologists never hide thier need for worshipping.
Kind of like the Olypians.
Once the commoners left thier safe spaces and ventured out, they realized they were capable of making decisions without the wealthy white Gods.


----------



## NYC Composer

I have no idea what that means, but it smelled like grapefruit.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> You are clearly an authoritarian, whether you admit it or not.



If by "authoritarian" you mean I expect there to be laws against murder and I expect the laws to be enforced, then yes, i am. Bu I would hope so are you.



JonFairhurst said:


> You tried to avoid my question, but you clearly answered it. Your real agenda is criminalization and punishment.



Wow, you sure do a good job of extrapolating on other people's posts. I never even mentioned punishment. But since you did mention it, here are my real thoughts on it, not the ideas you assume and accuse me of.

As I said in a previous post, many many young women think that a fetus is nothing more than a tissue blob. That's not really their fault; they are taught this by society, leaders, etc. Because of that, punishment could not be immediate upon criminalization.

Since the government would be the entity outlawing abortion, it would be incumbent upon the government to get the truth about abortion out there. Public and private organizations would align to get this accomplished. This would not be immediate, of course, but someday, the national thinking considering abortion would be changed, and everyone would know that the law is there to protect innocent human life.

At that point, abortions would be punishable (except when medically necessary).



JonFairhurst said:


> How about if I decide how you should live your life and punish you if you don't comply? Authoritarianism doesn't sound so attractive when the tables are turned.


If by "living my life" you mean i knowingly murder innocent humans, I would expect to be punished.


----------



## NYC Composer

I do not want to go much further OT in this thread, but Michael, you know that women and children make up the bulk of the impoverished, yes? ...yet I rarely hear a peep from conservatives about deadbeat dads who dump their sperm and fuck off, leaving their unwanted children to be raised by teens or young women. Are you planning to have them punished? Will there be public whippings?

Also, how ARE you planning to punish teen mothers when a condom breaks or a pill doesn't work- speaking of which, you are into pregnancy PREVENTION, yes? Assuming as I do that teens will go on having sex as they have since the birth of the species...


----------



## chimuelo

Dude you're psychic.
I eat Indian River Reds from Florida every morning with Chimuelos Rootin Tootin Chickering Coffee with fresh Cream and crushed Hazelnuts.

80 miles from civilization it's amazing that a person can survive without help in this complex borderless world.






NO JUSTICE NO PEACE

Stronger Together

Make America Whole Again


----------



## Soundhound

First, and always most important, the Knicks. Dolan is this era's Steinbrenner. Having been brought up a Yankees fan (I grew up watching the Yankees with my grandfather calling Mantle and Maris 'ya bum ya' chomping his cigar and laughing, so I had no choice) I suffered through years of Steinbrenner's childish nonsense (A very Trump-like character he was), and once rid of him, Dolan is doing the same thing with the Knicks. I cut my teeth watching Willis and Clyde, Dave the Rave, Jazzy Cazzie. Again, I have no choice. (hyperbole, I have every choice, I choose my allegiance, and revel in the pain)

I know that religion is as deeply held a belief as being Knick fan, it's bred in the bone. And it gives great comfort to many. I get it, and totally believe in whatever gets you through night is none of my business, and shouldn't be. What you believe in, who you have sex with, what team you cheer on, these are all deeply personal. I never, ever cast aspersions on anyone's religion. I'm always respectful. Though I personally believe it's a primitive neuroses that we will eventually outgrow, when I'm talking to someone who is religious, that doesn't enter the conversation. It's kind of like the adage that you don't get into the ins and outs of someone's marriage - religion seems to me very much like a marriage, you can't know what's really going on there, and you're invading someone's privacy.

Unless invited. What Michael does is inviting everyone into his marriage. By saying that people are murderers for supporting the right to abortion, which he has every right to do, he then opens the discussion of his religion. This is why he tries so hard to say that his belief about abortion is science based, when it is nothing of the kind. As I noted in a post yesterday, I tried to discuss the science with him a while ago, and when faced with the fallacy of his argument, he went away. He says it's because I was being rude, but the back and forth about the science was civil. He's like Trump, he makes up what he needs to whenever his argument falls apart.

Why go on like this? Procrastination, for one. But also because I really do think that backward thinking should be called out for what it is. The concept of separation of church and state is a critical cornerstone of an enlightened society, I feel strongly about that. Belief in religion cannot be argued, well it can and it's incredibly interesting and fun. But because to my mind, a leap of faith is required to hold religious beliefs, the discussion is never ending.

In the end, when someone foists their personal religious beliefs on others, it's a vote for moving society backward, it's a vote against peace and progress. When someone does that, I want to call a spade a spade.




NYC Composer said:


> I can't watch my formerly beloved Knicks anymore. Dolan has ruint the franchise. He needs a spankin'.
> 
> Maybe not your atheism, but wouldn't you like to impose compassion on people? Civility? Reason? I sure would, though I've had very limited success.
> 
> Regarding religion-having left behind any thought of God-worship many years ago and being no fan of organized religion (all religions should lose tax exempt status in my view) I hear ya. There is little I find in life that's more hypocritical than the idea of religions that preach love and compassion then turn around and do the opposite. To me though, it's more nuanced. Not all religionists want to sell you their philosophies or force them on you. There is a tremendous amount of very difficult and dangerous charity work done religiously. Work with the sick and the poor. The disadvantaged, the hungry. Some wonderful people are people of faith. Hundreds of important figures throughout history.
> 
> Also, if faith gives people comfort in a world filled with such existential fear and they can keep from proselytizing, killing or trying to remake the political world in the name of it, I'm okay with it. When those things happen I'm right there with you.
> 
> Human nature though, with or without religion, seems plenty bloody to
> me. Hitler. Stalin. Mao. Pol Pot. Duvalier. Trujillo. Pinochet. Pahlavi. Mubarak, just to name a few. They didn't need no stinkin' religion to do their thing...
> 
> I just find broad generalizations so facile at this point in my life.
> 
> Back to topic. Anything Trump says about his "faith" is said so insincerely, it's quite obvious he's not religious in the least He barely covers up his obvious disinterest. It's, as usual, totally disingenuous.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I mentioned the OMSI Prenatal Development exhibit here in liberal, choice-loving Portland. It shows fetuses (from miscarriages) in their week by week development. Nobody protests it. It doesn't moralize. It just presents the fetuses with dates and information about development.







My personal feeling is that abortion is a choice early on, that it should never be done after viability (3rd trimester), that ideally nobody would want to or need to choose it, and when chosen, the earlier the better.

But here's the deal: When it's a choice, there is motivation to educate people, to provide alternatives, and to ensure that when chosen, it's safe. When illegal, the attitude tends to be, "if you do it, you go to jail, so just don't do it." Or as Nancy Reagan famously said, "Just say 'no.'" She sure wasn't advocating public funding of rehab centers or mental health facilities or organizing advocates to walk America's sidewalks. That said, it was a good time to invest in private prisons.

So here's the deal. If pro-lifers aren't funding education and alternatives in a big, public, compassionate way now, they would certainly not do it after it's illegal. Motivation? The jail cell is the motivation, girl.

How about Oregon's Death with Dignity law? In this case, a person sound of mind and with a terminal disease may legally get a prescription for a deadly dose of sedative. It must be self-administered. It's no murder. But it's suicide - a biblical sin. Should it be legal or illegal? Pro-lifers, mostly all say, "illegal", claiming that they are protecting the sanctity of life.

And then there's the death penalty. These same people often support it.

When you combine these three things:
* The state decides if a woman should continue her pregnancy.
* The state says you do not have the right to take your own life, no matter the situation.
* The state can take your life as punishment.
...you get authoritarianism.

Then you add:
* The police were right to shoot him. He was scary. He didn't comply.
...then the state has the right to take your life even when you don't commit a crime.

But people with these beliefs generally don't see themselves as authoritarian. It's delusional.


----------



## NYC Composer

"Lyin' Ted" endorses DJT.

I guess it's now okay that Trump insulted his fambly.


----------



## chimuelo

Sure no problem.
Clintons were racists and Biden were sexist/racist yet scored SecState and VP.
Cruz could be the first Hispanic Klansmen and head the new deportation committee.


----------



## NYC Composer

Your response to any mention of a conservative craziness is "well, but the lib'rals....". How bout a simple response to the item mentioned- Cruz is endorsing Trump which he refused to do at the convention because of the insults to his fambly. He called DJT a number of nasty adjectives, but all is forgiven now.

Personally, I think they should have duked it out. I woulda paid good money to watch that.


----------



## chimuelo

Of course, but you knew this was coming, these shows are the same every election.
Distractions help aid in the suspension of disbelief.

Trump will take Cruz's dad to Taco Bell.

I have to TIVO the debate as we got a last minute gig for Monday Night Halftime party.
They have to be watching this there too.
Big Sports Bar.
Owner already said be ready to play, you might only do 1 set.
For half the door that's fine by me.....

I hope Trump tries the huffy puffy Al Gore trick (that failed) on HRC and she kicks him in the nuts...


----------



## Soundhound

This election ain't nuthin like anything I've seen before.

On a much happier note, scanned through the global citizen thing from central park tonight. Till I got to Rihanna. Holy shit. Who knew? Everybody but me, as always.  Left the stage burning.



chimuelo said:


> these shows are the same every election.


----------



## NYC Composer

Burning?


----------



## Soundhound

I thought so.


----------



## NYC Composer

Like she nailed the performance?


----------



## Soundhound

Yeah, killed it. Christ, are my references as dated as I am?


----------



## NYC Composer

Yes.



I've liked her a lot for a while now. She's not hard to look at either.


----------



## Soundhound

Not entirely unattractive, I concur. I kept stopping the vcr and asked my wife if she knew how good Rihanna was. I got the slow, sad shake of the head and long suffering sigh. 

The polyrhythmic stuff was incredible, production was amazing, and she's a great performer. I could tell that she was in love with me. I will let her down easy.


----------



## NYC Composer

You have delusions of grandma.

Ok, enough chitchat. Did you enjoy watching Ted swallowing his pride and kissing Trump's loathsome azz?


----------



## Soundhound

I missed the main attraction unfortunately. Cruz is such a reprehensible ghoul I need to get to it. Was it schadenfreude-worthy?


----------



## NYC Composer

It was deeply satisfying in a perverse way-sort of like watching snakes fuck.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I think Trump wins it. 

Looks that way to me now.

I have been majorly wrong about election results in the past it must be said.


----------



## NYC Composer

Does Theresa golf? Does she like fat blonde guys?


----------



## NYC Composer

Just for ewe, Chimmyuelo:

http://www.greatbigstory.com/stories/sheep-and-the-city-nashville-s-urban-shepherd?playall=641


----------



## chimuelo

It's the only bi partisan group of Trump and Clinton supporters that actually serves the community.


----------



## chimuelo

Best thing about Cruz changing his mind (seeking media attention) is seeing Glenn Beck melt down on Twitter. If he follows fake Liberals by moving to Canada and takes his paranoid followers with him I'd be happy.
Him and Whoopi Goldboog could be neighbors.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> Does Theresa golf? Does she like fat blonde guys?



Fat blonde guys? Her husband looks like Micky Moto and is not blonde. The story today is how Theresa kept quiet and let Cameron down (according to Cameron) when it came to the Brexit vote. I don't normally read newspapers but my wife is coming back with the Mail today so I will read the splash on this unfolding drama. But all along Theresa never said anything about anything for 6 years. Never appeared on TV. Hardly ever made a statement or asked a question in the house. And now she's Prime Minister with no mandate because she's unelected.

I'll make a prediction. Within 6 months, if she hasn't called an election ( I would after yesterday ) Farage and James will be telling the British public that she is not giving them what they voted for, and all hell will break lose. Looking forward to voyeuring all over that when it happens.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> It's the only bi partisan group of Trump and Clinton supporters that actually serves the community.




Jimmy, Trumpo wins it!


----------



## chimuelo

His flock increases daily, and just from my Western and Midwestern State travels I can say with confidence, he has the popular vote wrapped up.
But elections are controlled by the electoral.
This is where the media (foreign owned) and investors (global elites) have dumped over a billion dollars since February.
Trump spends nothing. The money taken in is around 650,000,000 adding monthly totals since Februrary, yet only less than a 3rd was spent. The rest is for down ticket races which seem to be removing the remaining wealthy Liberals in Congress.

I predict Hillarys owners win the election, and real Liberals freak out as she enacts all of Trump popular proposals.

So it was written, so it shall be done.
Yul Brennar as Ramses II in Exodus
MGM/United Artists 1956


----------



## Soundhound

Oh Moses, Moses, Moses...You'd better be right...

Think of how stupid you have to be to vote for Trump. Then realize that there are (at least) 50 million of those people in the united states. It's like watching snakes fuck. (nice one Larry!)


----------



## chimuelo

I think its more like 100,000,000 as new registration numbers for the GOP are so unexpected Liberals are giving Felons voting rights and granting citizenships to illegal "mistakenly released" deportees.
Rioting Liberals and deplorable unredeemable Americans.
Sure nice to see what the owners of America and thier lawyers think of us.


----------



## Soundhound

So voter suppression is a good thing now? And Martin Luther King's 'the language of the unheard' is just noise from fake liberals? Paranoia and Reagan worship makes you come up with some of your best stuff, Jimmy.


----------



## chimuelo

Just an umpire.
Call 'em like I see 'em...

Dont know why you decided to talk about voter suppression. But okay.

Liberals cant afford IDs. No problem, the State gives them one of those too.
But in 2014 even after free IDs since they dont have jobs or a car, they stayed home?
Seems Liberals are lazy, dont go to school, dont work, dont drive....
Shocked they have so much energy to be led around by a Shepard with a megaphone everytime Georges boys fly into town.


----------



## Soundhound

Well Donald, because you brought it up!

So you're parodying an insane Trump supporter now? I need a Playbill at this point...



chimuelo said:


> Dont know why you decided to talk about voter suppression. But okay.
> 
> Liberals cant afford IDs. No problem, the State gives them one of those too.
> But in 2014 even after free IDs since they dont have jobs or a car, they stayed home?
> Seems Liberals are lazy, dont go to school, dont work, dont drive....
> Shocked they have so much energy to be led around by a Shepard with a megaphone everytime Georges boys fly into town.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Hahaha not the least bit funny.

This isn't a joke, this is life and death. It drives me crazy how so many people just don't see that.

(I mean all the lighthearted banter, Chim's identical post to every other one, yuk yuk Txxxx wins, etc.)


----------



## chimuelo

Its always life and death.
Every election thermo nuclear war, lynch mobs of Klansmen.
Folks who dont agree with a Trump or a Clinton are still accused of being a Clinton or a Trump.
To yuze guys theres only the fake left and right, fake outrage, death and mayhem.

We elected Obama to lower the sea level, leave the middle east, unite all Americans.
How did that work out.

Liberals kill each other in record numbers, we are in 5 wars, way more than Bush/Cheney.
Liberal billionaires own huge stocks in Murray/Peabody Coal, transport millions of barrels of Oil via railroad to the Gulf of Mexico.....

But somehow this election will be life and death?

Liberal debt is 20 trillion but not a problem.
Krugman is shown below in a Warren Buffet commercial explaining the stimulus to children.


----------



## Baron Greuner

That photo sort of reminds me of Jeremy Corbyn.

Corbyn wins the Left wing leadership yesterday. Notice I say left wing leadership and not the Labour Party leadership. The Labour Party is now consigned to the dustbin of history. No more Liberalism here for another 30 years minimum. They won't win 100 seats at the next election and will probably wind up in third spot.

Bye bye liberals.


----------



## chimuelo

We have fake Liberals too.

Just finished reading about yet another wealthy globalist Liberal who was the Commissioner of the Anti Trust (no pun intended) commitee in the EU.

Seems she ran a shell Mining company in the Bahamas while an acting commissioner which made sure others paid thier fair share.

This is why they like the complex borderless world.
They can lie and stash away cash and shaking down CEOs while protecting those whiny commoners wanting more free stuff.


----------



## Soundhound

Could be easily. I thought for sure the pendulum was going to swing back from the selfish, small minded, incompetent right wing that has ruined pretty much everything, starting with the transatlantic moron twins Reagan&Thatcher. But maybe it'll just continue to get worse.


----------



## chimuelo

It will get better Soundhound.
No more Conservatives, no more Liberals....

I'm fine with or without, it's my kids that will live better.
Once these Crime Families have been removed and replaced, the can kicking bastards will be in retirement homes.
Then they can write biographies and get wheeled onto Fox News, or whatever.

Brexit was the beginning.
Clinton thankfully will bring us the end.
Im quite sure ALL of her scams and bull shit will be dripped from hackers over the next 4 years.
No way we let that Gun Running Jesuit Priest Cain take the helm.

Young, smarter people with a record of running something other than their mouths.

Thing Big think beautiful think positive.


----------



## Soundhound

Nate Silver 538 thinks the debates could decide this. I'll be watching them the way you watch a horror film, hands covering eyes, peeking through and recoiling in horror regularly.


----------



## NYC Composer

I dunno how many times I've said it but a few more wont hurt.

IRAQIRAQIRAQURAQIRAQIRAQIRAQ!!!

If Presidential politics don't mean anything, how in the motherfucking world did we end up going to war in Iraq??


----------



## chimuelo

Sounds like no fun at all S Hound.
I'll be packing my beak, bonging some White Widow from Colorado and chugging Jager.


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> I dunno how many times I've said it but a few more wont hurt.
> 
> IRAQIRAQIRAQURAQIRAQIRAQIRAQ!!!
> 
> If Presidential politics don't mean anything, how in the motherfucking world did we end up going to war in Iraq??



Haliburton, GE, Monsanto, Morgan Stanley, AIG, etc. etc.
These folks decide what happens, not some temporary occupant of the White House.

Do you really think Obama wanted a war in Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Yemen...?


----------



## Soundhound

If the Supreme Court hadn't stolen the election from Al Gore we wouldn't have invaded Iraq. Everything stems from that, and things would be utterly different right now. Dick Cheney ran Halliburton. As Woody Allen said, you don't have to be Fellini to figure that one out.

Today we drove through a neighborhood I hadn't been in before (we're in Georgia for a year or so). There were trump signs everywhere. Nice to know how many racist assholes there are in the area.


----------



## chimuelo

All I see where I live are DuPont, Phizer, RJ Reynolds and Monsanto signs.

Folks don't care much for Hillary or the loudmouth Yankee.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> All I see where I live are DuPont, Phizer, RJ Reynolds and Monsanto signs.
> 
> Folks don't care much for Hillary or the loudmouth Yankee.



Too bad Foghorn Leghorn ain't running.'


----------



## NYC Composer

Well gents, here we go. Place yer bets on this boxing match.


----------



## Baron Greuner

It all depends on what Hillary wears. Is she going to be wearing a blanket again? Or blankets?

I think this debate will go completely out of hand from the get go.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Btw. If she must go round wearing blankets, can't she at least wear blankets made by native Americans?

Apaches or Sioux. That sort of thing.


----------



## NYC Composer

On the plus side, her hair doesn't look like something that rodents would fear building a nest in.

Btw, other than blankets, what do you suggest? Blue suit, red tie?


----------



## Baron Greuner

She should wear that light, woolly Chanel suit of hers. It's woolly, so it's going to protect her from germs and getting cold.

Larry, please. Her hair is mess. That's the norm these days. Look at Theresa FFS. Whatever is going on there.

And what about Angela? Cheesus Larry! She wanders round looking like one of Chairman Mao's discarded girlfriends.

Let's face it Larry! These women need help!


----------



## NYC Composer

FFS AC, the man's hair is some startling dead thing, heavily lacquered with something industrial and then perched dangerously on his head. There's simply no comparison. 

I'm impressed with your knowledge of women's haberdashery, though. Second career, fashion consultant?


----------



## Baron Greuner

I wish! Years ago I worked in a Knightsbridge fashion shop part time to fund my RCM payments.


----------



## NYC Composer

If Hillary had only known! I'm sure you would have chosen a few lovely frocks for her, and maybe some accessories.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hillary in a frock? Uhhhhhhhh.......


----------



## Baron Greuner

Trumpo has invited one of Bill's mistresses of 12 years to sit in the front row this evening and she appears to have accepted.

Gotta love it!


----------



## Soundhound

Trump is the ugliest of the ugly Americans. There really is no competition for that crown. He has owned it since he first vomited onto the scene in the early 80s. If America were dumb enough to elect him I'd seriously start thinking about moving somewhere else. 

And the news coverage of this is just unbearable. The promos look like Tyson/Holyfield, the announcers gushing with excitement. Shame on us.


----------



## chimuelo

But Hillary, Obama, Bush/Cheney, all have presided over the abuse of power and hundreds of thousands died?
And some Yankee loudmouth celebrity causes Liberals so much damage?

What if Hillary's incompetence we have already seen brings us into 6th conflict where we go to war with Russia?

But if you must leave please take as many Liberals and Conservatives as possible with you.
You might get lucky and get a crib next to the "Reverend" Al Sharpton.
Hardly any blacks in Canadian or Mexican politics.
They're all racists....`«»¥°|«°[

Maybe he can start the fake Liberal racist bull shit all over again.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I do not want to go much further OT in this thread, but Michael, you know that women and children make up the bulk of the impoverished, yes? ...yet I rarely hear a peep from conservatives about deadbeat dads who dump their sperm and fuck off, leaving their unwanted children to be raised by teens or young women. Are you planning to have them punished? Will there be public whippings?



There already is a law to punish deadbeat dads. It's called the Deadbeat Parents Punishment Act, from 1998.



NYC Composer said:


> speaking of which, you are into pregnancy PREVENTION, yes? Assuming as I do that teens will go on having sex as they have since the birth of the species...


Certainly I am.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

I get more and more resolute against Trump and his died-in-the-wool supporters every day. I've been getting emails from his campaign for about a month now, and Saturday I found out why. Cruz rented his email list to him. Even before Cruz endorsed. That ticks me off. I know "they all do it", but it makes me mad anyway.
I am going to enjoy casting my 3rd party vote in Nov. Both sides accuse me of helping the other side win, so I guess it cancels out, like eating pasta and antipasto at the same time.


----------



## chimuelo

That's the way I feel too.
Let the chips where they may.

I did want a ride on Air Force One though, even if I wasn't the last hold out on the failed ACA.


----------



## Baron Greuner

This election has become so bad to Americans that Arnie Palmer actually died.

I did try to warn you Yanks very early that out of 325 million Americans you wound up with these two candidates.

Fear not though, we were there long before you.


----------



## Soundhound

It's idiotic Jimmy, putting Clinton and Trump in the same breath is ridiculous.

And the uproar about police violence is bullshit? Really? Seriously?



chimuelo said:


> But Hillary, Obama, Bush/Cheney, all have presided over the abuse of power and hundreds of thousands died?
> And some Yankee loudmouth celebrity causes Liberals so much damage?
> 
> What if Hillary's incompetence we have already seen brings us into 6th conflict where we go to war with Russia?
> 
> But if you must leave please take as many Liberals and Conservatives as possible with you.
> You might get lucky and get a crib next to the "Reverend" Al Sharpton.
> Hardly any blacks in Canadian or Mexican politics.
> They're all racists....`«»¥°|«°[
> 
> Maybe he can start the fake Liberal racist bull shit all over again.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> I did try to warn you Yanks very early that out of 325 million Americans you wound up with these two candidates



And every time someone says that, I want to beat my chest and pull my hair out because of the sheer ignorance. What a ridiculous statement - and that's without considering the other candidate this time, who is a cruel joke.

Hillary Clinton is a great candidate, probably the most qualified person to run for the job. She has serious policy proposals for dealing with every issue. You don't have to agree with them, but then you have to explain why you disagree with them. And no, just saying "she's a corrupt witch" is not enough.

Why are so many people totally unimpressed with intelligence, accomplishment, knowledge, experience, insight, and clear enthusiasm for improving people's lives?


----------



## NYC Composer

And, as I consistently try to do despite my decidedly progressive opinions, when I try to look at it objectively, I give the debate win to him.

Why? Because he didn't lose. It's not that he won-she just didn't trample him, which should have been a cakewalk if she wasn't playing things so cautiously. Where was the passion?

I wish I was running her campaign. I would do better.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Hillary rocked it. I'm not just voting against Trump. I'm voting FOR Hillary. 

And yes, Trump lost big. The key moment was when he bragged about his temperament and the audience laughed out loud. When the bully gets heckled by the crowd, he's lost his sway.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jon, I sincerely hope you're right. Let's see if the polls reflect it a few days from now.


----------



## woodsdenis

Jeez that was a slam dunk for the lady in red. He really couldn't handle 90 mins and his nonsensical answers will be the stuff of internet memes for years to come, however how much, what has to be one of the worst train wrecks ever, will affect is polling has to be seen.


----------



## NYC Composer

And again, I hope you're right Denis, but wouldn't one of the "worst train wrecks ever" automatically be a big mover in the polls?


----------



## NYC Composer

NYC Composer said:


> I do not want to go much further OT in this thread, but Michael, you know that women and children make up the bulk of the impoverished, yes? ...yet I rarely hear a peep from conservatives about deadbeat dads who dump their sperm and fuck off, leaving their unwanted children to be raised by teens or young women. Are you planning to have them punished? Will there be public whippings?
> 
> Also, how ARE you planning to punish teen mothers when a condom breaks or a pill doesn't work- speaking of which, you are into pregnancy PREVENTION, yes? Assuming as I do that teens will go on having sex as they have since the birth of the species...



You've been responsive in this thread thus far Michael-I'm not baiting you, I'm seriously wondering what your plan is to address these issues, given your strong anti-abortion stance. You went dark suddenly....


----------



## Baron Greuner

Whoa, you poor ignorant bastards!

You think she won that??? You ignoramouses! 2 more like that and it's a Trump landslide.

Jesus H Christ! You moronic living in denial imbeciles.

Yours


General G S Patton jnr !!!


----------



## NYC Composer

Ah, Mister Objectivity speaks. Thanks for checking in on our election, Adrian.


----------



## NoamL

Clinton's goals:

Make an affirmative case for her candidacy.
Articulate a succinct & compelling vision regarding her top priorities.
Trump's goals:

Look sober, prepared, and empathetic.
Don't say crazy stuff.
So Clinton's task was Running For President 101.

And Trump's task was Applying For Shift Manager At Burger King 101.

The bar couldn't be lower and both candidates still left a trail of half-assedly toppled hurdles like me on Track & Field day in high school.

I guess the media will be talking about Trump's continuing dumpster fire tomorrow so you can score that a win for Clinton if you wish. The problem with Clinton is that she continues to have no agency in this election. Totally at the mercy of events. She is like the Space Shuttle - "a brick with wings". She was in a hedgy, defensive policy crouch the entire debate.

Basically - Trump speaks in dogwhistles; Clinton speaks in chaff.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Oh you poor poor farmers!

Actually Larry I haven't seen it yet. Hahahahah!

I did see an American on the BBC say that Trump talked a load of nonsense. He then went on to say that Hilly talked even more nonsense, but with a lot more detail in it.


----------



## NYC Composer

Let the great world spin, Adrian.


----------



## chimuelo

I thought the game sucked, should have watched the debate.
Highlights are boring.
The only authentic part was where they shook hands and Trump asked Clinton if she thought the Sheep would buy this pile of fecal matter.


----------



## chimuelo

A real debate would have included a succesful Governor instead of a pro invasion Senator and a SecState who failed in every endeavor, or a Mr. America who takes advantage of laws passed by those he purchased.


----------



## NYC Composer

Seemed plenty real to me, but- yeah, I know. Baaaahhh.


----------



## chimuelo

Hillary will be fundraising while civilians get gassed, Trump has a new huge fan club, the Fed talks more nonsense and keeps rate at 0%.
Thats all that we'll see in 2017.


----------



## Baron Greuner




----------



## Brian2112

The debate wasn't fair. To make it so in the next debate, Hillary should have one cerebral hemisphere tied behind her back.


----------



## woodsdenis

Fox News are calling it a draw, which means even they thought DT was destroyed.


----------



## chimuelo

He seemed to wonder off in Trump land when hit with specifics.
Not bad for a first time I suppose but I think I saw most of it by now and what a snorefest.

Thanks be being a loyal Fox News follower, like most Liberally indoctrinated folks.
I hate having to sit through foreign owned media corporation outlets like Fox, UnaVision and NYTimes.

Hillary has 2 of the 3 outlets owned by billionaires profiting from buying legislation investing in her foundation and campaign.
She is going to win or these people would not have thrown hundreds of millions away,...again.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> You've been responsive in this thread thus far Michael-I'm not baiting you, I'm seriously wondering what your plan is to address these issues, given your strong anti-abortion stance. You went dark suddenly....


I "went dark" over the weekend because i was sick of politics. But I did answer this on page 145 or 146. But this morning, I had an additional thought so I'll post it here so that you can keep it in mind while reading that post.
My thought is that the punishment part of the deabeat parent act I referred to would have to be _much_ tougher.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

I didn't watch the debates, as I'd had enough in the primaries of DT tanking but Fox and Drudge calling him the winner anyway.
The biggest percentage of folks in my Twitter timeline called it for HRC, but then again, most are #NeverTrumpers


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Larry, you seriously think Txxxx won that debate?


----------



## chimuelo

In 1965 a Battalion of the 101st Airborne flew into a landing zone 1/2 mile away from thousands of NVA Battle hardened troops in the Ia Drang River Valley.

After 3 days of new warfare using Huey Helicpters the NVA were routed, losing 1,000s of troops. American losses were minimal.
The NVA would never engage in force again until 8 years later.
The NVA claimed victory because they learned how effective artillery and air support were.

Larry thinks Trump summed up his opponent while not losing any ground. In sense a future victory.

I think Trump figured out a way to lose without making it look like he wanted to lose.

In this race Trump loses if he wins.

If he loses the election, he wins.
Millions of people will flock to his new show.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> I think Trump figured out a way to lose without making it look like he wanted to lose.
> 
> In this race Trump loses if he wins.
> 
> If he loses the election, he wins.


So true, so true.
Trojan Horse.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I haven't seen what Hillary was wearing as yet. Suspense is building up as I head for home.

As long as she didn't look like you could camp under her in a sleeping bag, the debate may still have gone her way.


----------



## NYC Composer

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Larry, you seriously think Txxxx won that debate?


My response was more nuanced than "he won", and I illustrated my thinking in my earlier post.


----------



## NoamL

woodsdenis said:


> Fox News are calling it a draw, which means even they thought DT was destroyed.



I've noticed the same effect here - the more chim says "They're both equally terrible" the more he knows Trump is indefensible.



Michael K. Bain said:


> The biggest percentage of folks in my Twitter timeline called it for HRC, but then again, most are #NeverTrumpers



BTW, while Cruz was spinning that "vote your conscience" stuff at the religious conservatives, he was also *selling Trump your emails*. LOL!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NoamL said:


> I've noticed the same effect here - the more chim says "They're both equally terrible" the more he knows Trump is indefensible.


Chim truly does believe that both are equally terrible.



NoamL said:


> BTW, while Cruz was spinning that "vote your conscience" stuff at the religious conservatives, he was also *selling Trump your emails*. LOL!


I know you wanted to wreck a conservative's day, but I knew about this on Friday. Sorry you didn't hit your intended mark.


----------



## chimuelo

No conspiracy.

As Noomi Rapace in Prometheus said.

It's what I choose to believe.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Larry! There's nothing the least bit nuanced about this. Hillary was totally impressive, in absolute command of all the issues. She is a true statesman.

Meanwhile, Txxxx showed the world very plainly, yet again, that he is a total know-nothing, dangerous idiot.

In addition to the following link, what he said about Mexico's VAT is wrong. It's a sales tax, not a trade tariff!

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/9/27/13076848/trump-trade-debate

I haven't looked at each one of these in detail, but the length of the list is impressive:

 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/opinion/campaign-stops/the-lies-trump-told.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

By any chance would your "nuance" be about the "how well did each candidate pose like a president to impress nearsighted strongmen in BFE, Montana who have a low tooth-to-tattoo ratio but are likely to vote for the candidate who dips hot dogs in beer" stuff?

Get a grip!


----------



## NYC Composer

I have a firm grip, Nick. I watched the same debate you did, hoping for the same outcome. My conclusion was different than yours. I honestly hope you're right as to the takeaway of the electorate, but if you're wrong, the sun would fall from the sky and the world as we know it would end. We can't have that.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Baron Greuner said:


> I haven't seen what Hillary was wearing as yet. Suspense is building up as I head for home.



She was wearing the blood of those who have underestimated her.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Just checked out the highlights package. Don was having trouble with his di...mic. Hillary sounded like an automaton and looked like a red tent.
The whole thing disintegrated into a slow motion car crash. Oh God! 2 more at 90 minutes a kick. No one has that kind of attention span in the 21st century (texttexttexttexttexttexttexttexttext). WTF!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Larry, I'm not talking about perception. Idiots who vote for Txxxx are idiots in the first place, so they probably won't be swayed. And people who haven't made up their minds yet are also unlikely to be the best books in the library, so what can you say.

What I'm talking about is the *debate* - an exchange of ideas and a demonstration of intelligence, knowledge, thinking on your feet, minor things like ability to lead a country of 300 million people... that kind of thing.


----------



## chimuelo

I'm happy for Hillary.
After years of debates and a slough of failures, 18 Presidential debates where she lost all of them, she finally won one against a guy less experienced the last winner.

Maybe she will be a decent President.
Law averages says she's due a win.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ok Nick, let's talk about that.

Certainly she was more poised and better prepared. She was also cautious. I don't feel she articulated a clear vision for the country or a passion for leadership. I think she is doing a fair job of not losing, which is not the way I'd have her go if I was running her campaign. I don't think she and her team have demonstrated an ability to tap into people's emotions. I think that's a dangerous stance in a "throw the bums out" sort of year, which it unquestionably is. The Republican nomination of Trump over much more suitable candidates makes that clear-in a way we're quite fortunate, because I believe Jeb Bush would have easily beaten her.

This is not an intelligent electorate. You want to argue that what's good and true and right should prevail because it's so obvious that Trump is odious and ill prepared. I absolutely agree that he is-yet HIS base is energized and passionate, whereas I find ours fairly grim-determined but not enthusiastic, and personally I'm nowhere near as enthusiastic about her as you are except in this: in COMPARISON, there's no question in my mind who the better leader is. Will there be enough evidence of that demonstrated/sold to sway independents in battleground states? Is she generating enough red meat? Politics is not run by Marquis of Queensbury rules, it's a blood sport. Charisma matters- is she selling herself to the fault liners?

I have a deep fear that if she does not go all out to win, if she keeps playing not to lose, she will. I want her to hammer in her credentials re working for social justice where he has done nothing but enrich himself through scams and "other people's money." I want her to talk knowledgably about the global chess that is inherent in diplomacy and how she knows it while has hasn't a clue. I want to hear a concise statement if her infrastructure program. I want her to be quietly but obviously disgusted at the very idea that a know nothing preening buffoon would seek the highest office in the land when he is totally unfit, another trophy for his mantle along with his wife and his uuuuuge bathrooms.

After the re-election of G.W. Bush in 2004, I realized there was no way to underestimate the difference in the way I see the world and the way other citizens of this country see it. It will deeply upset me but not shock me if he wins. I think she needs to finish this with a flourish. I didn't get that from last night...I feel she didnt lose, maybe won. To me that description is insufficient. She needs to kill.


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## chimuelo

Enthusiasm follows success.
Trump is odious but successful in defeating the GOP buffoons.

Hillary can't even fill a gym.
She was not selected for a record of achievement but for a record of sales.
Arms, Federal contracts to anyone, even foreign owned investors.

So stick to reality and deal with it.
Excessive drooling and worship in this thread won't sway a single vote.

As long as Pfizer makes billions for leaving the USA folks around her get more money for leasing out thier farms.

This is what's about.
How much?
Cool.

So what if kids keep getting charged trillions for a worthless degree.

Mo money.
That's the action.

Big thumbs up for the Fed and Wall Street.
Somebody's gotta make money.


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't drool and I don't worship, and I get pretty tired of the suggestion that I do.


----------



## chimuelo

Wasn't referring to you.
Was hoping Nick would save some of that cock for others.


----------



## Soundhound

I'm waiting for the polls to gather their data, and see what they say by the end of the week, more like the end of the weekend. I too was surprised (deflated, depressed, horrified) by the election of 2004. It seemed inconceivable that Bush would be elected after what was clearly the worst first term in our history. But I hadn't been watching mainstream news, and had missed how it had turned into entertainment. And that's not what Clinton does. She's a wonk, she knows her stuff but doesn't come across on TV.

In the sound bite era it's whoever can make the most noise in the shortest time. Trump excels at that. It's then exacerbated by everyone reading niche 'journalism' that reinforced whatever they already think. I watched with two ears (eyes, noses?), one on the substance and the other on the entertainment. In substance there was no contest, he was obviously full of shit. As far as noise making goes, looked like a tie.

To be a Trump voter, you've got to be uninformed (or informed by right wing media), and I agree that the people on the fence must not be the sharpest knives in the drawer, and similarly uninformed. How Clinton can appeal to them I'm really not sure.


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't think she can win the sound byte war. It's an important one but not the only one.

I think she needs to hammer in the truth-that she's far more experienced and intelligent, that she has always demonstrated and believed in compassion and empathy whereas he has neither, and that she's a firm, determined woman of heart and mind as opposed to a man whose incomprehensible self interest is the most interesting thing about him.


----------



## chimuelo

Gentlemen this is a new century where pollsters are persuasive not realistic.
When is the last time these propagandists were right?
Pollsters are remarkably skillful at their trade craft, but politicians hire the ones suitable for disinformation.
Its all in who you really ask the questions...

The New World Order Bush Sr. announced is in place and has been without competition for years.
Brexit struck fear in the Bilderberg-ists and will not be allowed to happen in the USA.
These little wars we'll see popping up are just new folks jousting for a position in the pecking order.

ISIS will never be defeated as it keeps the turmoil right where they need a buffer between Syria and Iran.
Everything is going according to plan so relax and just enjoy the show.
You'll see the fake outrage and fake polls that will keep real Liberals out of power, so the wealthy fake Liberals can strengthen their corporate and global bonds.

Trump has everyone paying the UN and NATO now...
Scare tactics of arming Japan and S.Korea with Nukes, etc.

I even believe Iran will prove to have been an important agreement sometime soon.
I mean it is so bad it has to be an act?
The decision to keep massive ghettos, ISIS and other hot spots alive for decades has been arranged.

There's a mock up city, an American city with Post Office and UPS Trucks, Buses, etc. in Virginia, it is huge, it's an exact replica of an American City.
Don't believe me look it up. 
Your Liberal Media sites wont ever mention it.

But shouldn't we spending billions on mock ups of future war zones instead...?
Guess we are and they plan on them being here.

If you really get deep into research download Agenda 21 mandates and docs. from the UN WebSite.
MOD of England seems to think the very same thing so they've come up with a plan.

Im so glad Kings and Queens have gone out of their way to save and protect the little people.

That's why I know who the winner in this race is.


Nighty Night, sleep tight....


----------



## Soundhound

And, the moon landing was a put on. I've been to the studio, saw the set and the Earthrise painted backdrop, very impressive!


----------



## chimuelo

You're thinking of the set used in Diamonds Are Forever.
That set was actually on display in Vegas for years. While the anti gravity thrills never got off the ground the Turbines did work and were a blast as you could float around with a buzz for 50 bucks.

Too bad your conditioned to trust the spoonfed news and gaze at soundbytes and candidates selected just for you.

Fish and Game Wardens actually have to study such scenarios where travel becomes prohibited and resource rich land is confiscated and quarantined.
The map is even included and my favorite old Marsh area in Lake Topaz where German Brown Spawn by snow melt Walker River is colored Red.
Civilians no longer allowed.

I thought this reporter was crazy until I downloaded and read it.

Maybe it will never be implemented, and all of training in Virginia won't be necessary.
But lots of money was spent just in case.

Much more exciting than a fake election/sheepfight


----------



## Soundhound

No, I saw the set while touring the museum at the Worldwide Conspiracy Conference in Gstaad last summer. To your point, the leader of the conference did have a white, longhair cat in his lap throughout. The Clintons held a symposium on east/west coordination, guest speakers included Karl Rove, Sydney Blumenthal and a very special surprise lecture on interstellar monetary policy given by Ted Cruz and Elizabeth Warren who, it turns out, are actually married. The weekend ending entertainment was headlined by Hasselhoff of course. Who knew he was actually a badass coronet player? Such soul, the crowd loved every minute.


----------



## NoamL

chimuelo said:


> When is the last time these propagandists were right?



2012


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> Gentlemen this is a new century where pollsters are persuasive not realistic.
> When is the last time these propagandists were right?
> Pollsters are remarkably skillful at their trade craft, but politicians hire the ones suitable for disinformation.
> Its all in who you really ask the questions...



Completely correct Jimmy!

They also own the fucking TV stations. Or in this place the TV companies own them whenever it suits their agenda. Take Sky Tv for example in the UK. They are still hell bent on pro EU membership propaganda and are still in denial. Even the BBC denial has now turned anger and disbelief.

What were those 17.5 million exit voters think of? We, the TV stations spent billion on TV hours telling them what to vote and these morons did the exact opposite. How can that be???

The best one here atm is Jeremy Corbyn. This fucking guy and his Trotsky party _actually_ think they're going to win the next election. They believe it and they want their 28 tattooed fat women body guards to believe it also. Do you know these imbeciles still call each other comrades?

Doesn't this guy actually know that if he ever came to power by some miracle that the Americans would shoot him on sight? If the British didn't do it first? And then blame it on the Americans? Or even the Russians? This guy is way too left wing for the Russians.

Living in Denial. That's what half of the American voters will be doing fairly soon, so prepare thyself.


----------



## NYC Composer

Anyone who votes for Donald J. Trump is living in denial of a few simple truths:

1. He's not very smart.
2. He doesn't believe in doing hard work to address this shortcoming.
3. He's reflexively racist and misogynistic. He keeps talking about fat women, sort of like someone else. I won't mention any names, but his initials are Baron Von Greuner.


----------



## Baron Greuner

1. That will not affect the result in anyway.
2. That will not affect the result in anyway, apart from discouraging fat women.
3. That will help him forward to a landslide victory.


----------



## chimuelo

NoamL said:


> 2012



That was where everyone was wrong and Liberals were removed from power.

More important was 2014 when movie stars, and the Clintons showed up at every race as if their appearances would sway the Sheep.
Polls claimed wins, even exit polls proved to be wrong.

Hell look at Brexit same lies about death and mayhem.
Wrong again.
Before 2010 they were 50% right which is still enough to keep you around.
But 4 cycles if you count Brexit since then, give no reason to even keep these useless methods unless you want to help provide disinformation.

The biggest most damning example was Scott Browns race in Massechussetts.
Landslide victory, voters said yes landslide, but for a Brown win.

Trumps polls are plain bull shit to make Sheep tremble in fear.
Wrong until it became a 2 man race.
Prooving all polls up until the convention were meant to disuade or persuade.
Whichever you prefer.


----------



## chimuelo

Does anyone here really believe the Presidents appoval rating is 60%?
60% cant wait to see him leave is more realistic, and all of the corruption, federal employees and aides taking the 5th, secret deals and planes full of cash, etc.
This kind of crap is why people despise their government. Having a candidate even more despised is perfect.


----------



## Baron Greuner

The lethal mistake that Cameron made in the Brexit vote was that he took sides. He should NEVER have taken a side. The second that idiot chose a side, he was doomed. This is why Theresa May said nothing about anything for 6 fucking years. Cannot these people ever learn. It was completely obvious from the start to anyone who didn't actually give a shit. The second you start giving a shit about these people, you join them as a crew member of the good ship Doom.

Moral. Don't try and look clever to an electorate. They don't want clever. They don't understand it. An electorate is an animal that is made up of millions of individuals who like to forget that they are individuals and become part of a herd every 4 or 5 years so they can say and act stupid.

Look at your idiot electorate. They voted for guy that told them 'change is coming', conveniently forgetting that change can also be an extreme negative. But they wanted to believe otherwise and joined the herd. That's how it works.


----------



## Soundhound

Another very interesting display at the Worldwide Conspiracy Conference was the Evolution of the Modern Right. Starting on the left, is a Monopoly Man with top hat and monocle. Moving forward (to the right, of course) the figure devolves by steps into an Orange Orangutang masturbating at the audience while genuflecting, and waving an American flag. All animatronic, and very well done.


----------



## NYC Composer

It's a very easy choice if you're a grown up.

On the one hand, you have an embedded politician, a policy wonk, an adult. She owes a lot of people and through the machinations of government, most will probably be repaid. She's not a shrinking violet, understands diplomacy, will probably hold the line.

On the other hand, you have the equivalent of a teenager. He doesn't do his homework, won't listen to anyone telling him what he should do, picks his nose in public and eats it, seems hormonally imbalanced, leers at females and makes locker room jokes, is reflexively racist in the manner of teen boys everywhere, bullies when he can, shrinks in the presence of firm adults.

You don't assign grave responsibility to those who are unlikely to know what to do with it. To this day, I don't really believe he wants the job because he knows he's unfit and it makes him nervous..


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Larry, of course the electorate aren't all very smart. Look at this thread - even among musicians you get people voting for Republicans.

And not only do I agree, but I've said many times that Hillary isn't an exciting candidate - in fact she said the same in so many words. Instead she's a bright, measured, wonky, thoughtful one - which I think is exactly what we need right now for a variety of reasons.

My point is that you and I have no freaking idea what goes through the mind of a dipshit watching that debate, and it's silly even trying to guess. If what you saw wasn't enough to convince you that Txxxx is a dangerous imbecile who has no business using the lives of 300 million people as a toy, then you're beyond help.


----------



## NYC Composer

Nick, the only voters in play are a thin edge of undecided Indies. After that, it depends on which base is more energized and who gets out the vote. I think his is the base that's energized but her ground game is way way better so it's either a wash or advantage to her.

What has frustrated me up to now is that liberals have been doing the victory dance in the media for months-"oh look she's up by 10 points, he's toast!" or "she's winning every battleground state by a lot!" when what they should have been saying is "this is too close, she should up her game." Now that the race is tightening (as it always does) there should be widespread panic and a great big alarm siren going off calling all decent people to war...and there should be controlled panic. "OMG, this dumbass could be in charge of nukes!!! He could make at least two Supreme Court appts!! He could roll back social justice 10 years!! Sound the alarm!! Get out the vote!!!THIS COULD HAPPEN!!"

As opposed to "he's a moron, so obviously we win. She won the debate. Go team (yawn.)"


----------



## JonFairhurst

Somebody needs to re-educate evangelicals. They've been trained to like paternalism. No surprise that it has its roots in the South as it was founded not by people looking for freedom, but by the crown. (The names Virginia, Carolina, Maryland, and Georgia give a clue.) It embraced slavery for 250 years. From the crown to the plantation owner to father God. A loving god? Hell no! He's pissed off and will damn you for eternity for your sins.

But, hey, if you want to look at sin, let's look at Trump v. The Seven Deadly Sins:

Hubris - He has the best temperament, don't you know. (Audience laughs.)
Envy - When does he not want what others have?
Wrath - Who brings up Rosie O'Donnell in a presidential debate?
Gluttony - Clearly, this man eats.
Lust - The three marriages and afairs aren't nearly as creepy as his thing for his daughter.
Sloth - Hey, it's just a presidential debate. Who needs to prepare for that?
Greed - This one could break the VI-Control servers.

And this doesn't even touch his lying, fear bating, racism, misogyny, treatment of the disabled, cheating of contractors, evasion of taxes, and his love of lawyering up to run out the clock. He profits from gambling. Oh, and he likes torture, advocates war crimes, and wonders why we don't use the nukes.

This guy is a world class sinner. He doesn't hide it. And many will vote for him precisely because of it. Clearly, many people in America love sin.

Trump is the embodiment of sin.

And anybody who votes for him can go to hell.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> Somebody needs to re-educate evangelicals. They've been trained to like paternalism. No surprise that it has its roots in the South as it was founded not by people looking for freedom, but by the crown. (The names Virginia, Carolina, Maryland, and Georgia give a clue.) It embraced slavery for 250 years.


Actually, abolitionist leaders were for the most part Christians in the US and the UK. Ever hear of William Wilberforce?


----------



## chimuelo

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Larry, of course the electorate aren't all very smart. Look at this thread - even among musicians you get people voting for Republicans.



I'm glad to vote for a Republican Governor with a record of success.

As a moderator you might want to stop acting like Trump by thinking before you Tweet.

And if you did think before insulting members here maybe step down as a moderator, then reclaim your title after the election.

Especially if you can't perform your duties of "moderating."

Would love having you back in the game of worshipping wealthy Liberals vrs. Conservatives.
The arrogance of these 2 groups thinking they are somehow a majority and smarter than everyone else is my favorite pass time.

If this election wasn't such a sham you'd be begging free thinkers like me to not throw out those wealthy white fossils you worship.
I would be happy to vote for a real Liberal, but those wealthy liars you bow to took out those chances.

Don't worry I don't hit the report button like offended touchy safe spacers do.
I prefer knowing what people think rather than silencing them.

Ankyu


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Sorry Chim, voting for a Republican - any one of them - is not smart. Believe whatever you want, but it is only possible for a Republican to have a record of success in spite of the party's irrational policies, not because of them.

It's not like I haven't explained in detail why that's true many times. That's not a personal insult, it's a general insult for an entire political party that's gone off the rails. There are certainly bad Democrats, but every good politician is a Democrat and not a Republican.

And yes, after ten years of seeing your identical post about liberals and and conservatives as the response to everything from aardvarks to zoology, I'm starting to get the idea that it's one of your favorite activities.


----------



## Soundhound

Are we at Godwin's law yet? Technically, the moment Trump decided to run for president we should have been there. Cut and past Trump into this and see what you get. As Larry David would say, "pretty, pretty terrific."

(side note - I'm with Nick. Voting for Republicans in this day and age is beyond the pale and inexcusable for anyone with an ounce of rational thought and humanity...)

Now, back to the apocalypse. To wit:

<<<<<<
How did Adolf Hitler — described by one eminent magazine editor in 1930 as a “half-insane rascal,” a “pathetic dunderhead,” a “nowhere fool,” a “big mouth” — rise to power in the land of Goethe and Beethoven? What persuaded millions of ordinary Germans to embrace him and his doctrine of hatred? How did this “most unlikely pretender to high state office” achieve absolute power in a once democratic country and set it on a course of monstrous horror?

A host of earlier biographers (most notably Alan Bullock, Joachim Fest and Ian Kershaw) have advanced theories about Hitler’s rise, and the dynamic between the man and his times. Some have focused on the social and political conditions in post-World War I Germany, which Hitler expertly exploited — bitterness over the harsh terms of the Treaty of Versailles and a yearning for a return to German greatness; unemployment and economic distress amid the worldwide Depression of the early 1930s; and longstanding ethnic prejudices and fears of “foreignization.”

Other writers — including the dictator’s latest biographer, the historian Volker Ullrich — have focused on Hitler as a politician who rose to power through demagoguery, showmanship and nativist appeals to the masses. In “Hitler: Ascent, 1889-1939,” Mr. Ullrich sets out to strip away the mythology that Hitler created around himself in “Mein Kampf,” and he also tries to look at this “mysterious, calamitous figure” not as a monster or madman, but as a human being with “undeniable talents and obviously deep-seated psychological complexes.”

“In a sense,” he says in an introduction, “Hitler will be ‘normalized’ — although this will not make him seem more ‘normal.’ If anything, he will emerge as even more horrific.”

This is the first of two volumes (it ends in 1939 with the dictator’s 50th birthday) and there is little here that is substantially new. However, Mr. Ullrich offers a fascinating Shakespearean parable about how the confluence of circumstance, chance, a ruthless individual and the willful blindness of others can transform a country — and, in Hitler’s case, lead to an unimaginable nightmare for the world.

Photo





Volker Ullrich CreditRoswitha Hecke 
Mr. Ullrich, like other biographers, provides vivid insight into some factors that helped turn a “Munich rabble-rouser” — regarded by many as a self-obsessed “clown” with a strangely “scattershot, impulsive style” — into “the lord and master of the German Reich.”

• Hitler was often described as an egomaniac who “only loved himself” — a narcissist with a taste for self-dramatization and what Mr. Ullrich calls a “characteristic fondness for superlatives.” His manic speeches and penchant for taking all-or-nothing risks raised questions about his capacity for self-control, even his sanity. But Mr. Ullrich underscores Hitler’s shrewdness as a politician — with a “keen eye for the strengths and weaknesses of other people” and an ability to “instantaneously analyze and exploit situations.”

• Hitler was known, among colleagues, for a “bottomless mendacity” that would later be magnified by a slick propaganda machine that used the latest technology (radio, gramophone records, film) to spread his message. A former finance minister wrote that Hitler “was so thoroughly untruthful that he could no longer recognize the difference between lies and truth” and editors of one edition of “Mein Kampf” described it as a “swamp of lies, distortions, innuendoes, half-truths and real facts.”

• Hitler was an effective orator and actor, Mr. Ullrich reminds readers, adept at assuming various masks and feeding off the energy of his audiences. Although he concealed his anti-Semitism beneath a “mask of moderation” when trying to win the support of the socially liberal middle classes, he specialized in big, theatrical rallies staged with spectacular elements borrowed from the circus. Here, “Hitler adapted the content of his speeches to suit the tastes of his lower-middle-class, nationalist-conservative, ethnic-chauvinist and anti-Semitic listeners,” Mr. Ullrich writes. He peppered his speeches with coarse phrases and put-downs of hecklers. Even as he fomented chaos by playing to crowds’ fears and resentments, he offered himself as the visionary leader who could restore law and order.

• Hitler increasingly presented himself in messianic terms, promising “to lead Germany to a new era of national greatness,” though he was typically vague about his actual plans. He often harked back to a golden age for the country, Mr. Ullrich says, the better “to paint the present day in hues that were all the darker. Everywhere you looked now, there was only decline and decay.”

• Hitler’s repertoire of topics, Mr. Ullrich notes, was limited, and reading his speeches in retrospect, “it seems amazing that he attracted larger and larger audiences” with “repeated mantralike phrases” consisting largely of “accusations, vows of revenge and promises for the future.” But Hitler virtually wrote the modern playbook on demagoguery, arguing in “Mein Kampf” that propaganda must appeal to the emotions — not the reasoning powers — of the crowd. Its “purely intellectual level,” Hitler said, “will have to be that of the lowest mental common denominator among the public it is desired to reach.” Because the understanding of the masses “is feeble,” he went on, effective propaganda needed to be boiled down to a few slogans that should be “persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward.”

• Hitler’s rise was not inevitable, in Mr. Ullrich’s opinion. There were numerous points at which his ascent might have been derailed, he contends; even as late as January 1933, “it would have been eminently possible to prevent his nomination as Reich chancellor.” He benefited from a “constellation of crises that he was able to exploit cleverly and unscrupulously” — in addition to economic woes and unemployment, there was an “erosion of the political center” and a growing resentment of the elites. The unwillingness of Germany’s political parties to compromise had contributed to a perception of government dysfunction, Mr. Ullrich suggests, and the belief of Hitler supporters that the country needed “a man of iron” who could shake things up. “Why not give the National Socialists a chance?” a prominent banker said of the Nazis. “They seem pretty gutsy to me.”

• Hitler’s ascension was aided and abetted by the naïveté of domestic adversaries who failed to appreciate his ruthlessness and tenacity, and by foreign statesmen who believed they could control his aggression. Early on, revulsion at Hitler’s style and appearance, Mr. Ullrich writes, led some critics to underestimate the man and his popularity, while others dismissed him as a celebrity, a repellent but fascinating “evening’s entertainment.” Politicians, for their part, suffered from the delusion that the dominance of traditional conservatives in the cabinet would neutralize the threat of Nazi abuse of power and “fence Hitler in.” “As far as Hitler’s long-term wishes were concerned,” Mr. Ullrich observes, “his conservative coalition partners believed either that he was not serious or that they could exert a moderating influence on him. In any case, they were severely mistaken.”

• Hitler, it became obvious, could not be tamed — he needed only five months to consolidate absolute power after becoming chancellor. “Non-National Socialist German states” were brought into line, Mr. Ullrich writes, “with pressure from the party grass roots combining effectively with pseudo-legal measures ordered by the Reich government.” Many Germans jumped on the Nazi bandwagon not out of political conviction but in hopes of improving their career opportunities, he argues, while fear kept others from speaking out against the persecution of the Jews. The independent press was banned or suppressed and books deemed “un-German” were burned. By March 1933, Hitler had made it clear, Mr. Ullrich says, “that his government was going to do away with all norms of separation of powers and the rule of law.”

• Hitler had a dark, Darwinian view of the world. And he would not only become, in Mr. Ullrich’s words, “a mouthpiece of the cultural pessimism” growing in right-wing circles in the Weimar Republic, but also the avatar of what Thomas Mann identified as a turning away from reason and the fundamental principles of a civil society — namely, “liberty, equality, education, optimism and belief in progress.”

Follow Michiko Kakutani on Twitter: @michikokakutani

Hitler

Ascent 1889-1939

By Volker Ullrich

Translated by Jefferson Chase

Illustrated. 998 pages. Knopf. $40.

<<<<<<<<


----------



## chimuelo

Nick, Why then am I stupid for not wanting to vote for known lairs, and bigots?

I want to vote for a PERSON regardless of Crime Family affiliation.

Sanders was first, then Trump because of my deep distrust for wealthy lying Liberals who have the deaths of untold hundreds of 1,000s on their hands. Not to mention their corruption and lies that rigged the Primary before they were removed/rewarded.
Trump fell into too many Liberal traps, so they were good at showing us the real Trump.
Don't want to see him in charge of the military.

If we MUST continue to wage wars in the Middle East, can't we at least be honest and inform voters?
Especially since Muslims who live in the USA seem to go off and kill Americans for supporting this, when actually we do not support this.

No Boots on the ground is a lie, we are now involved in 5 wars (disagreements/conflicts) and Troops in Kuwait are getting ready to roll into the shit again.

I will not vote for this, and I will not vote for Trump, but I will vote for a man with a record of success..

Call him names, I don't care, but he has succeeded and represented those who voted for him.
I am stupid because I wont play in your BULL SHIT opinion game of how great HRC is?

I'll support her if she wins, that's the way things work here.

But shouldn't you maybe create your own Liberal worshipping forum where you can call people dumb or stupid?

If you think taking advantage of the built in crowd other composers, musicians and developers have created is a fair description of a Moderator, I guess it's OK with anyone as long as they worship accordingly.

My idea of a Moderator is to "moderate" and make sure when really nasty stuff starts occurring, you can say, that's too much, tone it down.

Actually you're the perfect Liberal Moderator.
We can call this Nicks VI Control...

Virtual Indoctrination Control Center...


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## Nick Batzdorf

When did I say everyone had to agree with me that Hillary is a great candidate?

What I said is that given the alternative - and it's going to be her or Txxxx - anyone who doesn't vote for her is an idiot.

Is that nasty? That aside, I'm sorry you think there's no difference between liberal and Republican policies, but there is.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Soundhound, the parallels are scary but I actually think it is invoking Godwin's law. The only reason is that we're not living in the Weimar Republic, i.e. the conditions aren't nearly as bad.

But saying this is like Mussolini wouldn't be farfetched. As I think I posted earlier, this is how it always starts with fascists: stir up fear, blame a group, and convince stupid people that the only way to be safe is to trust their leader to be mean to that group. The line between demagogue and fascist is easy to cross.


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## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Nick, Why then am I stupid for not wanting to vote for known lairs, and bigots?
> 
> But shouldn't you maybe create your own Liberal worshipping forum where you can call people dumb or stupid?
> 
> If you think taking advantage of the built in crowd other composers, musicians and developers have created is a fair description of a Moderator, I guess it's OK with anyone as long as they worship accordingly.
> 
> My idea of a Moderator is to "moderate" and make sure when really nasty stuff starts occurring, you can say, that's too much, tone it down.
> 
> Actually you're the perfect Liberal Moderator.
> We can call this Nicks VI Control...
> 
> Virtual Indoctrination Control Center...


Chim, if I could like this post 1,000 times, I would. I agreed with most of the post, but especially the part that I quoted. I will never forget the first time I saw that Nick had become a moderator. I chuckled to myself because he was getting onto someone in another forum for calling names. I was like:


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## chimuelo

Nick Batzdorf said:


> When did I say everyone had to agree with me that Hillary is a great candidate?
> 
> What I said is that given the alternative - and it's going to be her or Txxxx - anyone who doesn't vote for her is an idiot.
> 
> Is that nasty? That aside, I'm sorry you think there's no difference between liberal and Republican policies, but there is.



Voting for a Republican means you're not smart. Your words.

Any other forums you "moderate" where you can intimidate and insult members?
For a guy who doesn't like bullies you sure seem to have the power of position behind you.
Who would dare challenge a "moderator", they might get banned from free speech.

It is not between him and her.
There's other options and I plan on exercising my right to pick an honest person with a successful record.

I consider myself fairly smart.
I can actually recall every conversation we ever had here.
All the way back to VI Magazine where you provided an unbiased opinion on gearbox reviewed.

Now you're a biased moderator insulting those who disagree with your zealotry.


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## JonFairhurst

Personally, I don't believe that Trump is a fascist.

He's a neo-fascist.

*Neo-fascism* is a post–World War II ideology that includes significant elements of fascism. Neo-fascism usually includes ultranationalism, populism, anti-immigrationpolicies or, where relevant, nativism, anti-communism, anti-socialism, anti-Marxism, anti-anarchism and opposition to the parliamentary system and liberal democracy. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-fascism


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## Soundhound

Not particularly comforting though, is it?


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## Nick Batzdorf

Who knows what he is. I don't even think he does.

Chim, I apologize for insulting your intelligence and being an intimidating bully zealot liberal sheep. You will never get banned for exercising your right to free speech here.

Just please have the good taste to agree with me at all times.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Now. Yes, it truly is a choice between those two. Nobody else is going to get anywhere near enough votes to become president.


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## NYC Composer

It is indeed a "binary" (gawd is that word overused) choice, and anyone who does not vote for Hillary to keep Trump from the Oval Office is culpable for helping him get there.


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## chimuelo

No apologies needed for me Nick.
That's as disingenuous as calling yourself a moderator.

You wanted to call those who disagree with you stupid, leave it at that and proceed with your Pagan Idolotry...

I wanted a real Liberal to win so I played for Table Stakes and lost.
You played petty ante with a fake Liberal and won.

But will investors from Wall Street get paid back first, or her supporters.

Pretty sure folks know they'll get Jack shit, but the world was saved from Nuclear Holocaust.

A huge sigh of relief from the believers...


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## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> It is indeed a "binary" (gawd is that word overused) choice, and anyone who does not vote for Hillary to keep Trump from the Oval Office is culpable for helping him get there.


I hear this every day from Trumpsters, that if I don't vote for Trump, I'm helping Hillary. But you say I'm helping Trump. So which is it?


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## NYC Composer

Michael, we've been over this already. You're never going to vote for a pro-choice candidate, so what's to discuss?


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## chimuelo

Gary Johnson all they way....

If that means Trump wins, I guess that's the DNCs fault for rigging the Primary, the DOJ, the IRS, the FBI, etc.etc.

Don't blame me, I'm not a lying Liberal on a salary from the foundation, the taxpayers, the banks the corporations....


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## NoamL

@Michael K. Bain I will engage with your question in good faith... the answer is simple... if you don't cast a vote that actually (not just symbolically) repudiates Trump then you're certainly acquiescing in his takeover of your political party.

That should trouble you. Trump represents a resurgence of Buchananism/Bircherism and it's not going away after Trump does. Trump was nominated by 40% of your party not merely for ignoring but for *blatantly rejecting* the three legs of conservatism's stool. To quickly summarize: instead of a Constitutional conservative he is an authoritarian ethnocrat; instead of a free market capitalist he is a protectionist populist; and instead of a hawkish internationalist he's a paranoid who believes even our allies are ripping us off. This is what Republicanism will become unless Trump loses in a landslide. You don't get to watch Independents hand Trump a narrow 48-49% defeat and then some loser like Ryan or Cruz slithers back into the leadership of the party. If you want Trumpism to go away, you have to defeat it like Buckley defeated Bircherism.

Obviously this is "advice from across the aisle" and you are entitled to be skeptical of me. But the question you should be asking yourself is if the Republican Party still stood unambiguously for Reaganite, three-legs conservatism then why did Jeb, Rubio and Cruz, all of whom were excellent union candidates, all lose? As long as you entertain the bullshit excuses of e.g. the Cruz campaign for its own defeat ("HARGH BLARGH THE MEEEDIA!"), you will underestimate the long term threat of Trumpism for your party.


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## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Gary Johnson all they way....
> 
> If that means Trump wins, I guess that's the DNCs fault for rigging the Primary, the DOJ, the IRS, the FBI, etc.etc.
> 
> Don't blame me, I'm not a lying Liberal on a salary from the foundation, the taxpayers, the banks the corporations....


But I will. I will blame you in part, because you did not do your little bit to keep him out when you know he's unfit. Not just inept, not just corrupt or uninformed-unfit. She's a flawed adult, corrupt? Ok. He's a spoiled child. He is unfit to lead the nation and you know it, you've admitted it, so you're just taking your toys and going home. Voting for someone who has no chance of winning is a "protest vote." It's a Chim's Life Matters movement. It's a political statement that you won't vote for corruption and lies and against your closely held beliefs, so you'll sit by and watch Rome Burn, so be it.

I thought you were more of a patriot. I believe in the America that I wanted to believe in as a kid. It's not the melting pot with an even playing field like they tried to tell us it was, no place is-but it's more egalitarian than most places, and I still have some passion for believing in its promise. I try not to give in to cynicism and despair, I try not to take the wholly ironic posture that too many bright people do. I want to see this country do better, and that involves making difficult choices sometimes for the good of the country. Standing on the side lines accomplishes nothing.

If you're think he's fit and a better choice than Hillary, you should vote for him. Otherwise, for her.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Excellent post, NoamL, but that Republican party hasn't been seen for decades and it's not coming back anytime soon - regardless of the outcome of this election. Ever since Nixon's Southern strategy, they've been rousing the rabble to vote against their own interest, and Txxxx is the result.

Their base never cared about all that "free-market" sales pitch, and hawkish internationalism became meaningless with the end of the Cold War (although the neocons were certainly hawkish). And that libertarian "Constitutional" small government stuff is all code for YOYO (you're on your own) rather than WITT (we're in this together).

And to tell you the truth, the people who own the party of the 1% never believed that crap either. They just want more money, and they sell anything in the way of that as a "job killer."

That joke of a party has total freaks at its very top. Paul Ryan, the guy they hold up as a serious policy wonk, is a total lunatic who wants to eliminate most of the government by 2050. Look at their platform, for what it's worth: total toilet.

Unfortunately, they don't seem capable of soul-searching (maybe because they don't have them to search?  ). They think Txxxx will go away and they'll go back to Paul Ryan.

This won't be over even if - please! - Hillary wins. Txxxx is a symptom, not an end, and the debate you're having isn't the one the Republicans are having - even though of course they should be having it.

Obviously there are other very, very serious reasons to defeat this reprehensible asshole. It's totally depressing that millions of people are going to vote for such a dangerous buffoon. What an embarrassment. This is American exceptionalism?

Really frightening.


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## Michael K. Bain

NoamL said:


> @Michael K. Bain I will engage with your question in good faith... the answer is simple... if you don't cast a vote that actually (not just symbolically) repudiates Trump then you're certainly acquiescing in his takeover of your political party.



As a former Republican, my vote for McMullin or Castle _is_ repudiation of Donald Trump, and I get to exercise my right to vote for a candidate i think will do a good job.



NoamL said:


> Trump was nominated by 40% of your party not merely for ignoring but for *blatantly rejecting* the three legs of conservatism's stool.


Actually, it wasn't 40% of the GOP who voted for Trump. Millions of Democrats crossed over to vote for him.



NoamL said:


> some loser like Ryan or Cruz slithers back into the leadership of the party.


Look, I'm mad at Cruz for endorsing Trump. But if you think he's an establishment "loser", you haven't followed his career at all. The man has consistently fought the GOP establishment in his effot to advance constitutionalism and conservatism.


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## woodsdenis

This won't play well in Miami.


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## chimuelo

Larry domestic and foreign investors will never allow Americans to vote in Trump.
Have faith in the corruption, you sat back during the primary and watched it grow from the comfort of your home.
First time in my life I ever participated in a Primary. First time I ever saw an honest candidate with a record to prove it.
Friends said Sanders will never get anything passed. Maybe so, but having us watch who says no is just as important.

You said no by watching lie after lie until the entire DNC resigned from corruption.
So now you suddenly want to reshuffle the deck?

Ive been involved since day one.
Maybe you should have.
Trumps supporters increase more everytime theres new lies, and witnesses taking the 5th.
Members of the Sicilian Mafia took the 5th, thats expected. But to watch leaders and operatives in control of our system hiding like gangsters, while taking tax payers money?

You need some different scapegoats bro.


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## NYC Composer

I donated to Sanders, I will vote for Clinton. I had doubts about Sanders in the general as the economics didn't make much sense to me. I have firmly rejected Trump from the very beginning, you know he's unfit, yet you're suggesting you'll vote for the Ralph Nader of our era. If it goes the wrong way and if this Anti-American rich boy narcissist never wrong boondoggler is elected, it's partially on you. If you're ok with that, then you are, but if you see him for what he is, it's unpatriotic to vote for anyone but the only candidate who has a chance to defeat him. Everything else is specious and a lot of blahblahblah.


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## chimuelo

This is academic Larry, HRC is the clear winner.
The FBI is even in on the election.
Secret runway rendezvous with a sitting Attorney General during an investigation?
What more convincing do you need?
Trump will even pull the handle for Clinton as it serves his best interests.
If he really thought he had a chance he would be buying ads instead of tweets.
Most of the money pouring in is for down ticket races.

Follow the corruption and the money, not the polls.
Its HRC and a GOP house.
Perfect conditions for getting nothing done.


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## NYC Composer

I'm unconcerned with your theories. I'm concerned with Americans doing the right thing in tiny ways. I will work for Bernie's "political revolution" if there's to be an organized and effective one. I'll donate my money and give my time and effort. At this late stage in my life I'm going all in. Money needs to come out of politics. Lobbyists need to be sequestered for a reasonable time period. 

In the meantime, I'm casting my vote for Hillary Clinton because for the time being, it is the best thing I can do for America. It is pragmatic and non Quixotic. Next time, we'll see.


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## chimuelo

I respect your choice, and dont hold you accountable for her 4 year fundraising tenure.

We can take down the for sale sign wealthy Liberals put on the White House in 2008 come 2020.

My offspring shall save America from rioting Liberals and heavily armed white supremacists.
Europe will become Muslim, Earth will lower its temperature.


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## NYC Composer

Blah bah and more blah. It's a binary choice. Pull up your big boy pants and choose. Seriously, I'd rather have you say you're voting against phony liberals and corrupt money and voting for your preferred candidate Donald J Trump than to refuse to engage in the process and throwing your vote away, so every time you come back at me with more blah blah blah, I'm coming back with that. Voting for Gary Johnson is the equivalent of a write in for Mickey Mouse.


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## chimuelo

Tomorrow Lying Liberal Arrows will blot out the Sun......
Then we will fight in the shade.


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## chimuelo

"If Trump wins the world will be against us, I wouldn't want to fight them".....
And that's why no one will remember your name....


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## Soundhound

Conspiracy theory reminds me of rigid constitutionalism. Lazy, incurious, comfort thinking—the opposite of science, of scholarly research and analysis. It's sort of an OCD-like response to complexity. Fundamentalism (religious, constitutional, etc.) is in large part a search for simple, unwavering answers to ever changing problems, a frightened reaction to an ever changing reality. Same with a conspiracy, but in place of a centuries old document fetish or primitive superstition, there is another immovable, unforgiving, all seeing, all knowing, all powerful force, The Conspiracy.

But to the point, I think this election is a lot like 2000. At that time it seemed to me an obvious choice: an articulate, thoughtful guy vs. a lazy, spoiled, incurious kid. I had no idea how dangerous and destructive Bush, in his inattention and ignorance, would turn out to be.

This time around it seems like that same dichotomy, on steroids. Clinton is extraordinarily accomplished, smart, dedicated, tireless. Trump is overtly dangerous. Without Fox News dumbing down and enraging the right wing for 20 years, he would never have gotten anywhere.

There are people furious at anyone who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, and I think that's unfair. It's like making fun of someone for a learning disability, or for rooting for the wrong team. It's not their fault, it's nature and/or nurture, there will always be those people, can't be helped. You try to help them, can talk to them, try to reason with them. (But don't try too hard unless you want to wind up with a chiropractor permanently on staff). I don't think it was possible to see what an unmitigated disaster Bush was going to be in 2000. [In 2004 absolutely, when 50 million people voted for him after what he had done (and let happen) I despaired.]

But if you are not among the ignorant or racist or selfish or incurious or hateful, and you don't vote for Clinton (as a vote for her, or as a vote against Trump) you are responsible. And unless Jimmy's tin hats really do protect us from interstellar peeping toms, we are in for a world of shit. And you will have directly assisted in bringing it about.

As Jim Jeffries said/begged/pleaded/cajoled, 'don't be the asshole, America'.


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## chimuelo

She's a visionary, an Emissary of Peace.....
They shall write songs about her, etch her name into stone....

Name a Naval Vessel in her honor, the SS Benghazzi.....

The most brilliant woman ever to steal silverware from the White House and get caught....

And her password was only 8 characters long with no numbers, or capital letters....


----------



## Soundhound

Nobody's saying she's the second coming. Well I'm not. I'm hoping she turns out to be a great president, could happen. But I won't be surprised if she winds up doing nothing of consequence. That's not the point. The point is there's a dangerous, unhinged maniac within reach of the presidency. 

The Taliban apparently watched the debate and their reaction was that Trump is not a serious guy. Therefor, if you're not voting for Clinton, you have less sense than the Taliban. Isn't logic fun?!


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## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> And her password was only 8 characters long with no numbers, or capital letters....



perhaps - password


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## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael, we've been over this already. You're never going to vote for a pro-choice candidate, so what's to discuss?


Well, that is the first thing, but after that there's a lot more. Honestly, even if Hillary were prolife, I wouldn't vote for her.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Michael K. Bain said:


> Well, that is the first thing, but after that there's a lot more. Honestly, even if Hillary were prolife, I wouldn't vote for her.



In other words, you don't oppose the King of Sinners™, Trump. That says it all.


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## Soundhound

Not voting for Clinton is a vote for Trump. Mathematically, maybe it's actually a 1/2 vote for Trump? Either way, you have contributed to his election as president of the united states.


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## Nick Batzdorf

> Millions of Democrats crossed over to vote for him



What are their names? And how do you know they were Democrats?


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## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> Well, that is the first thing, but after that there's a lot more. Honestly, even if Hillary were prolife, I wouldn't vote for her.


It's the only thing. It's your singular litmus test.


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## chimuelo

Nick Batzdorf said:


> What are their names? And how do you know they were Democrats?



Believe it or not legal Mexicans in Nevada in large numbers too.
I dont believe polls much but I know many Mexicans with Green cards waiting years to become legal.
Just to see illegals, which are mostly Honduran, Guatamalen and El Salvadorian walk into jobs they want thier kids to have in the Nevada Unions.
These illegals are referred to as Pinche Sarotays.
Its racist, because most Mexicans are macho and racist, according to Liberal standards. If this once Democratic state turns thats why.

AFL-CIO leaders are on the verge of backing Trump.
This is because the 500,000 million Solar Panels promised appears to be for Hillarys prison owner donors.
1.28 cents an hour is inmates pay for the ones weve seen since Solyndra was bailed out, then went bancrupt in 2009. The "investigation" is still going on.

Another factor not on Liberal news is the expiration of exemptions from Obamacare in 2018.
Hoffa and Trumpka will not take more than 1 broken promise for the millions given to the campaign.

Sure hope that doesnt happen.
Ill have to live like a Liberal after building and paying into my Union plan for 30 years.

Mexicans should be angry at Trump but obviously are over it.
Most of them despise their corrupt system and the Cartels gangs.
Most are very catholic too.


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## Soundhound

Even Fox News dropped the hyped up Solyndra story when it turned out to be nothing. And Clinton's in with prison owners? Names and actual proof, or it's just more Breitbart sourced inanity.


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## chimuelo

You go do it.
Then tell us about the investigation and find out if Speaker Pelosi's brother n law got paid.
Obama's executive order stated investors get paid first, then the tax payers.

A hint while googling.
AFLCIO LIUNA Solar Panel agreement.

Another hint.....
Solar Panel builders 1.28 an hour.

Final hint.
Argument behind the scenes at debate...

That should keep you busy you unemployed Liberal zealot worshipper of slum Lord campaign donors......


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## chimuelo

But that won't change anyone's mind, nor should it.
It's tough being a Liberal seller of laws.
Sometimes investors get screwed.

There must a panel of liberals answering phones and selling laws like the Telethon.


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## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> It's the only thing. It's your singular litmus test.


That's a lie. I wouldn't vote for Hillary for several reason, even if she were pro-life.
(1) As a result of several different scandals, I believe she is corrupt to the damn core
(2) She can't be trusted with national security, as the email fiasco shows
(3) Whether she was the cause of the Benghazi breakdown, she is complicit in the false blame game. She knew damn well it wasn't because of the video, but she flat out lied to the American public and even to a grieving father
(4) The list goes on


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## NYC Composer

....and a panel of white male authoritarian conservatives selling out any idea of American Dream of inclusivity , trying to roll the clock back to 1952 when women and people of color knew their place.


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## NYC Composer

Michael, this gets frustrating-and for the record, I don't lie. I may be wrong but I dont lie, so please consider your language more carefully.

Would you ever vote for a candidate who was pro-choice? Ever?? How many times do we have to do this dance? If you reject any pro-choice candidate out of hand, it is your litmus test. You may have other feelings about said candidate but pro-choice = no vote. If I'm wrong about THAT, tell me.


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> ....and a panel of white male authoritarian conservatives selling out any idea of American Dream of inclusivity , trying to roll the clock back to 1952 when women and people of color knew their place.



I was born after that so I missed out.
It's true, my colored Mother did whatever Dad told her to do.
Thanks to her I read on a 2nd grade level at the age of 4.
She drove me through ice and snow storms, through Liberal neighborhoods so I could do my first recital at the age of 6.

Now days kids can't read cause Mom be asleep cause she was out ho ing around looking for another boyfriend.

God and religion is discouraged and replaced by the worshipping of wealthy whites.
Just keep breeding, we will give you free stuff and even extra food.

Those were the good old days.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael, this gets frustrating-and for the record, I don't lie. I may be wrong but I don't lie, so please consider your language more carefully.


Maybe you should. I wrote that there are many reasons i will not vote Hillary, and in a specific reply to that, you wrote that abortion is "the only thing". In saying that, you called me a liar. You said I lied, so I say you lied when you called me a liar. 



NYC Composer said:


> Would you ever vote for a candidate who was pro-choice? Ever??


No, and I told you that. But I also told you that just because someone is pro-life doesn't mean I'll vote for that person.



NYC Composer said:


> How many times do we have to do this dance?


It takes two to do this kind of dance.



NYC Composer said:


> If you reject any pro-choice candidate out of hand, it is your litmus test.


I admitted it was my primary litmus test, but after they pass that one, there are more. For example, if a pro-life candidate doesn't pass my "corruption" litmus test, I won't vote for him/her.


----------



## Soundhound

Unfortunately, I go back to work tomorrow. I thought i could hide out in the Mitt Romney suburbs of Atlanta, but they found me. Bastards.

No brother Jimmy, you make this shit up, you show proof. Otherwise you're blowing smoke. (and whatever you're smoking, I want some!)

Same to Michael, show any proof of Clinton wrongdoing. You won't because you can't. You won't vote for her because you believe she's killing babies. And you believe that because your church tells you to believe that. End of story.




chimuelo said:


> You go do it.
> Then tell us about the investigation and find out if Speaker Pelosi's brother n law got paid.
> Obama's executive order stated investors get paid first, then the tax payers.
> 
> A hint while googling.
> AFLCIO LIUNA Solar Panel agreement.
> 
> Another hint.....
> Solar Panel builders 1.28 an hour.
> 
> Final hint.
> Argument behind the scenes at debate...
> 
> That should keep you busy you unemployed Liberal zealot worshipper of slum Lord campaign donors......


----------



## chimuelo

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjX_N7ewrXPAhVDRyYKHTMpARoQFggsMAI&url=http://www.reuters.com/article/us-solar-prison-suniva-insight-idUSKBN0OQ0DT20150610&usg=AFQjCNHQmW7o2cupmjaAEBk-u7xhasO6EQ&sig2=nKe8hO_d61JcJfG6YsdMnA&bvm=bv.134495766,bs.2,d.cWw

I'll help your lazy ass out.
Do you have a Trump sign in your yard to fit in better with southern white racists too?

Just start there.
Hillarys Super Predators work all week long for their white masters for 50 bucks. My cousin actually helped out too. He was in Stanislaus County, then Chino for 3 years. Stole his X Wifes car when he got drunk. Claimed he paid for it.

So you see when you follow the money Liberals and Conservatives are the very same.
Watch when HRC (Winner 2016) gets in office and passes TPP with her GOP bros.
Then you'll realize the Sheep will be screwed over as the wealthy whites gather for global warming summits, yachting events in the Hamptons, etc.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael, you're parsing words. You will never vote for a pro choice candidate ever, so Hillary was never a consideration regardless of what else you think of her.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael, you're parsing words. You will never vote for a pro choice candidate ever, so Hillary was never a consideration regardless of what else you think of her.


I'm not parsing words. I came right out and told you myself that I would never vote for a pro-choice candidate. But there are definitely other "litmus tests" once they pass that.
Many people have primary litmus tests. Some people would never vote for a pro-life presidential candidate. Would you?


----------



## JonFairhurst

Michael K. Bain said:


> That's a lie. I wouldn't vote for Hillary for several reason, even if she were pro-life.
> (1) As a result of several different scandals, I believe she is corrupt to the damn core
> (2) She can't be trusted with national security, as the email fiasco shows
> (3) Whether she was the cause of the Benghazi breakdown, she is complicit in the false blame game. She knew damn well it wasn't because of the video, but she flat out lied to the American public and even to a grieving father
> (4) The list goes on



Ha ha ha.

Emails and Benghazi. Those are the only items of substance you can find after a career in politics. Weak tea. And too much Fox News echo chamber.

Meanwhile Trump stiffs people, loves dictators, does deals with Cuba, and has disdain for ALL Americans. Well, all who aren't named Trump.

We know that he has contempt for blacks, Mexicans, Jews, women, immigrants, and everybody who is not white, Christian and male. Oops! He craps on them too! Being a white Christian male didn't shield Jeb, Rubio, and Cruz, did it? You might reply, "but he was battling when them." To which I respond that he crapped on Christie after the governor dropped out of the race and backed Trump.

There are only two kinds of people: Trump's enemies and Trump's property. Fight the bastard. Don't be pwned.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> Ha ha ha.
> 
> Emails and Benghazi. Those are the only items of substance you can find after a career in politics. Weak tea. And too much Fox News echo chamber.



Wrong. I don't watch Fox News. In fact, I don't like Fox News. Despite liberal accusations to the contrary, conservatives can believe things without being force-fed.



JonFairhurst said:


> Meanwhile Trump stiffs people, loves dictators, does deals with Cuba, and has disdain for ALL Americans. Well, all who aren't named Trump.
> 
> We know that he has contempt for blacks, Mexicans, Jews, women, immigrants, and everybody who is not white, Christian and male. Oops! He craps on them too! Being a white Christian male didn't shield Jeb, Rubio, and Cruz, did it? You might reply, "but he was battling when them." To which I respond that he crapped on Christie after the governor dropped out of the race and backed Trump.


Wrong. I wouldn't reply anything like that. Because I know how he is. I've been following his news and battling against his supporters since the primaries.
I have not one iota of defense for him.



JonFairhurst said:


> There are only two kinds of people: Trump's enemies and Trump's property. Fight the bastard. Don't be pwned.


If I were "pwned" by Trump, I would vote for Trump. I am very much against him and will not vote for him.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yes. I would, with great distaste and a huge sigh vote for a an anti-choice candidate to protect America and humanity from a dangerous and inept candidate.


----------



## chimuelo

Aliens even want Trump.
Crop Circles are appearing all over.
This one was discovered close to a Liberal worshipping center.


----------



## robh

JonFairhurst said:


> In other words, you don't oppose the King of Sinners™, Trump. That says it all.


Jon, Michael has said it numerous times already that he doesn't support Trump.


Michael K. Bain said:


> *I get more and more resolute against Trump and his died-in-the-wool supporters every day*. I've been getting emails from his campaign for about a month now, and Saturday I found out why. Cruz rented his email list to him. Even before Cruz endorsed. That ticks me off. I know "they all do it", but it makes me mad anyway.
> *I am going to enjoy casting my 3rd party vote in Nov*. Both sides accuse me of helping the other side win, so I guess it cancels out, like eating pasta and antipasto at the same time.


----------



## NYC Composer

"Equally bad" is, in my view, a total cop out and an abdication of personal responsibility.


----------



## Soundhound

And the connection to Clinton is...? Who is donating to her campaign? Grasping at straws there looks like to moi. What we used to call a Kareem. (meaning an absurdly long reach, get it?)

Actually we've got a Clinton sign on our fastidiously manicured lawn, in front of our Tony Soprano looking house. Should go nicely with the cross someone will burn into the grass I'd think.




chimuelo said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjX_N7ewrXPAhVDRyYKHTMpARoQFggsMAI&url=http://www.reuters.com/article/us-solar-prison-suniva-insight-idUSKBN0OQ0DT20150610&usg=AFQjCNHQmW7o2cupmjaAEBk-u7xhasO6EQ&sig2=nKe8hO_d61JcJfG6YsdMnA&bvm=bv.134495766,bs.2,d.cWw
> 
> I'll help your lazy ass out.
> Do you have a Trump sign in your yard to fit in better with southern white racists too?
> 
> Just start there.
> Hillarys Super Predators work all week long for their white masters for 50 bucks. My cousin actually helped out too. He was in Stanislaus County, then Chino for 3 years. Stole his X Wifes car when he got drunk. Claimed he paid for it.
> 
> So you see when you follow the money Liberals and Conservatives are the very same.
> Watch when HRC (Winner 2016) gets in office and passes TPP with her GOP bros.
> Then you'll realize the Sheep will be screwed over as the wealthy whites gather for global warming summits, yachting events in the Hamptons, etc.


----------



## chimuelo

DNC Donor lists have been updated since they were hacked. 

I could read those again, and with my superior intellect and comprehension, see if the Liberals in California/Illinois that own those still fund various local, state and Federal campaigns. A little cross referencing is all it takes.

But remember Hillary saying she was going after Private Owned Prisons, and Hedge fund owners?

That's how you get them to donate even more. Its like Harry Reid calling for an end to Prostitution, then the checks show up, and it's not mentioned again till the next Liberal shake down....sorry....I meant election.
.
Her son and law owns a hedge fund, I think he made a 23,000,000 dollar mistake though and lost the money, so to keep the in laws happy he probably got into another business.
Foundations are really profitable, maybe there's a slot for him over at CGI....

Elon Musk even uses super predators.
Liberals helping Liberals, party unity....

Have you ever seen the Solar Energy Companies that took tax payer money then closed shop?
It's a long list, I could provide that.
Also can provide the Executive Orders putting Green Energy investors in front of the very people that bailed them out (tax payers), but didn't you read this stuff back when the Infrastructure money went to donors...?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

robh said:


> Jon, Michael has said it numerous times already that he doesn't support Trump.


Thank you!


----------



## Soundhound

It's really simple. If you don't vote for Clinton, you are actively helping to elect Trump. But denial is a powerful force, enabling us to do all sorts of dumb things. Problem is, if you stick your head in the sand, your ass is exposed.


----------



## chimuelo

Hey if Hillary promises more free stuff I might be persuaded from voting for an honest candidate.

She needs a few more stops with Senator Warren though.

We got free College from Bernie showing up.

Maybe if Warren does another event we can get Banks to pay us to buy a house or something.

Trump hasn't even offered free stuff, but he did pimp out his daughter for a lucky investor.

I'm holding off though for coffee with Melania...


----------



## NYC Composer

Tell me something, does the military get free stuff?


----------



## chimuelo

Yes, especially Lockheed Martin.
They donate to the Foundation.

Comey got 6 million from them in his last year before going to work for the President.

His brother Peter is at DLA Piper, they do the Foundations taxes.
Top donors according to the DNC Donor list.

So of course the military should get free stuff.
They donate and do this after recieving assurances.

Maybe I could represent the middle class by starting a foundation.
Then my foundation could give to thier foundation, I keep 90% and give all my friends salaries, and start a new career.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> "Equally bad" is, in my view, a total cop out and an abdication of personal responsibility.


You have at least one thing in common with Trumpsters; they tell me that about voting my conscience as well.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm not telling you anything. I'm expressing my personal philosophy about civic responsibility.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Yes, especially Lockheed Martin.
> They donate to the Foundation.
> 
> Comey got 6 million from them in his last year before going to work for the President.
> 
> His brother Peter is at DLA Piper, they do the Foundations taxes.
> Top donors according to the DNC Donor list.
> 
> So of course the military should get free stuff.
> They donate and do this after recieving assurances.
> 
> Maybe I could represent the middle class by starting a foundation.
> Then my foundation could give to thier foundation, I keep 90% and give all my friends salaries, and start a new career.



My son is getting free stuff-he's going to school on the G.I. bill.
I got free stuff when my father died at 34 and my mother was left to raise 3 kids. They called it Social Security back then.

Wait, actually-none of that stuff is actually free, is it? It gets paid for by taxes, which I've paid a fuckton of in my life. Lots of other things are paid for by taxes, bridges, roads, education. For better or worse, that's the alternative to anarchy-people throw together in a geographic area, pay their dues to belong if they can, you know-the dreaded government thing. Sometimes it works well, sometimes not. Some always cheat, some always get more than they're entitled to, some less. It's imperfect, but there you have it.

Anybody in your family or extended family ever get free stuff?


----------



## Baron Greuner

If Hillary wins, she will win on Social Security aka Benefits payments. That's basically how she wins it.

Question: Do you want another President that is there simply because of Benefits payments. Because ladies and gents, I've seen that happen here many times and it's ugly.

That is NOT to say that when it is completely necessary, certainly in Larry's Mum's case, it should in anyway be withheld and DEFINITELY should be paid!

However, do you really want people to spend their lives on Benefits (e.g. they've had 4 children from 4 different men they barely know). These sort of people are legion and are TAKING AWAY Benefits payments from people that actually need them through no fault of their own.

Like for instance, taking responsibility for their actions and lives.

Donald Trump would definitely go after that. That is why he may not win this. BUT it HAS to happen one day in the future. It is a certainty.


----------



## NYC Composer

My dear man,

You are delusional. If he does not win this, it will because besides being totally unsuitable for any office above Chief Bankrupter, he is utterly loathsome.

Read my lips, Adrian. THE MAN SUGGESTED WE COULD DEFAULT ON OUR NATIONAL DEBT. HE DIDN'T DO HIS HOMEWORK WELL ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND NUCLEAR DELIVERY SYSTEMS. HE ASKS "WHY CANT WE USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS?"

Forget the social stuff or the financial stuff. This is really some idiotic shite. Your personal world would immediately become vastly more dangerous if he's elected. Think!!


----------



## chimuelo

They obviuosly got to the Gary Johnson, Wells and Stein.

Clinton aides (not the ones who got immunity) approached Johnson with a lifetime Colorado Weed Card and told him theres 5 million in Swiss Francs in this duffle bagb to pretend you know nothing about Aleppo. He accepted it. Pollsters said lets give him 10 more to go on Matthews show as they were convinced the 2nd event asking questions about world leaders would work. It did.

I decided since Im still a reg. Democrat I would not switch over.

I can get free school but I have to turn down work the rest of the year to be a poor person.
So Larry from this day forward, I decided Im with her.

With such complete and widespread corruption, I am so impressed with the power and control, I cannot vote for Trump.

For the next 40 days I will report on theories about Trump. Feelings he hurt 30 years ago, his tiny corrupt Foundation and judges he bought for 25 large.

Im with her.

So if he renigs on his agreement, and doesnt throw the race, my immense popularity, and being King of all I survey, I can guarantee a DNC win.

Stronger Together

Hillary 2016.

Let the theories begin.


----------



## NYC Composer

Kinda floored you when he couldn't name a single world leader, eh?

I gotta wonder why these guys can't do the smallest amount of homework.

Well, now I'm relieved- your vote was the last straw on the man's embarrassing weave.


----------



## chimuelo

Im big on foreign policy.
I want to return to the Reagan Clinton years where Americans were cheered as we exited Planes, they wrote songs about us and threw Rose Pedals where we walked.
Now we get groin kicked, robbed and held for ransom.

Dont see the gangster Trump mending any fences.
He would charge our friends and allies billions for protection money.
Just like the Gambinos did for a century.


----------



## chimuelo

Gotta get UHD Larry and NetFlix.
I was trying out Blu Ray and new alarms.
Woke up from Ursula Andress voice as she walked the beach with 007 in Dr. No.
Outstanding.


----------



## chimuelo

Signs of Trump being a disaster.

3 am tweets shows he fell into another HRC Bear Trap.
Raving on about the fat Miss Universe.
His investors are basically doing down ticket races.
Another confirmation that HRC is the winner.

If they really believed this race was real they would be all over the 7 states that supposedly he leads in.

The real sign this race is rigged is when they claim California has HRC trailing by 5.


----------



## robh

Soundhound said:


> It's really simple. If you don't vote for Clinton, you are actively helping to elect Trump. But denial is a powerful force, enabling us to do all sorts of dumb things. Problem is, if you stick your head in the sand, your ass is exposed.


And we all hear the opposite as well: If you don't vote for Trump, you are actively helping to elect Clinton. Maybe you should thank those of us who won't vote for either. 

Rob


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry we are in a dangerous world NOW!!!! [email protected][email protected]!

8 years of USA apathy on foreign policy. That is what happens when you abrogate your foreign policy responsibility. Obama and Clintons foreign policy is a laughing stock FFS!1 Don't you actually read about what's happening outside fucking Manhattan?

Listen to Peter Hitchens. He's a bright boy. Please trust me on that. At least do that. He regards Clinton as an absolute danger to the world. Trump has to win this election. If he does not, what comes after him will be 20 times worse for everyone in the States.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Or even his brother Chris.


----------



## Soundhound

Well I've never met a Trump supporter, so I haven't heard that! But I absolutely don't thank anyone who's not voting for Clinton, which is lunacy. I'll thank them for electing Trump if it happens, but that's an entirely different kind of thank you.



robh said:


> And we all hear the opposite as well: If you don't vote for Trump, you are actively helping to elect Clinton. Maybe you should thank those of us who won't vote for either.
> 
> Rob


----------



## Soundhound

Hitch was a hero. His anti-religion crusade was at once brilliant, quite important, and infinitely entertaining. But he made mistakes. He disavowed his initial support of the invasion of Iraq. The loss of his voice is incalculable, especially now. Do you think for a minute that he wouldn't have been voting for Clinton to keep Trump out? Of course he would. The very last thing Hitch was, was stupid.



Baron Greuner said:


> Or even his brother Chris.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Irony:

(1) - (4)

and 



> Despite liberal accusations to the contrary, conservatives can believe things without being force-fed.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

robh said:


> And we all hear the opposite as well: If you don't vote for Trump, you are actively helping to elect Clinton. Maybe you should thank those of us who won't vote for either.
> 
> Rob


I'm told that everyday on Twitter.


----------



## chimuelo

I have a new outlook and it's very optimistic.

First let's thank Bernie and Trump as they are responsible for the slap into the face to fake Liberals and Conservatives who were shocked for the dislike of their Government these 2 candidates revealed.
Many issues Bernie and Trump supporters share like the bull shit education run by Unions instead of parents.
Trade deals which actually were the GOP/Greenspan ideas, but adopted and further enhanced by Liberals.
Just to name a couple.

But HRC and the global elites she works for have heard the message and will lose control of the EU, UN and USA if they don't adhere to these requests in the next 4 years.

Bernie or Trump could never pull this stuff off but HRC can.

My reasoning is simple. 
After watching FBI Director testify and learning how widespread and corrupt our most cherished agencies are, you can get mad all you want.
I am impressed as that is an incredible amount of power to have the DOJ, FBI, FEC, etc. all in lockstep to promote HRC.

I believe Bill is very wise and HRC also, as pulling such a feat off is unprecedented.
I know world leaders respect her.
Just follow their money to the Foundation. It is impressive.

Trump will implode as planned and Clinton's are smart enough to shape shift and realize supporters of Bernie and Trump are 65-70% of the voters.
They will address infrastructure, school choice and Trade.
They better re patriate multi nationals too.

This will make voters satisfied.

So it was a nasty ass election but it will shape the way D.C. does business or they will be out of business.

The message is very loud.

Thank Bernie and Trump supporters.
Without them we would have Obama 3.
1 & 2 were pushing things, but a 3?
No way Jose..


----------



## JonFairhurst

Michael K. Bain said:


> If I were "pwned" by Trump, I would vote for Trump. I am very much against him and will not vote for him.



I challenge you (and others) to cast the most effective vote against him. Vote for Hillary.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Larry we are in a dangerous world NOW!!!! [email protected][email protected]!
> 
> 8 years of USA apathy on foreign policy. That is what happens when you abrogate your foreign policy responsibility. Obama and Clintons foreign policy is a laughing stock FFS!1 Don't you actually read about what's happening outside fucking Manhattan?
> 
> Listen to Peter Hitchens. He's a bright boy. Please trust me on that. At least do that. He regards Clinton as an absolute danger to the world. Trump has to win this election. If he does not, what comes after him will be 20 times worse for everyone in the States.


Adrian-typically, you did not respond to a single point I made- you simply stayed the course with a bunch of nonsense, so
I'll reiterate- (I did use big letters for your failing old eyes):


1.NUCLEAR DELIVERY SYSTEMS. NO CLUE.

2. THE CONCEPT OF AN INTERDEPENDENT INTERNATIONAL MONETARY SYSTEM WITH SYSTEMIC RISK-NO CLUE.

3. THE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF WHY THE USE OF NUKES IS A BAD THING.

4. THE SUGGESTION THAT WE COMMIT WAR CRIMES LIKE KILLING FAMILIES OF COMBATANTS.

5. IDEOLOGICAL PURITY TESTS AND THE SUSPENSION OF ENTRY BY ONE RELIGION.

6. MASS DEPORTATIONS.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy-as long as he's not elected, I agree with you that the shakeup will have been a Good Thing. It certainly has energized me.

The problem with nitroglycerin, though- you never know whether or not it will suddenly go off.


----------



## JonFairhurst

For war crime proposals, we have:
1) Killing of families of combatants,
2) Theft of oil,
3) Torture worse, much worse, than waterboarding.

Only three? Well, we have a bit over a month to go...


----------



## JonFairhurst

Here's some more insight into the master of projection...


----------



## JonFairhurst

Here is a list of some recent people on the GOP ticket:
* George W. Bush
* Dick Cheney
* Sarah Palin
* Paul Ryan
* Donald Trump
* Mike Pence

I have one conclusion: Republicans aren't very good at voting.


----------



## chimuelo

*California*

State Senator Ron Calderon (D) convicted of money laundering. (2016)[17]
State Assemblyman Tom Calderon (D) convicted of money laundering. (2016)[18]
State Senator Leland Yee (D) charged with bribery, public corruption and gun trafficking.(2014)[19][20]
State Senator Roderick Wright (D) was convicted of eight counts of perjury and voter fraud. He was sentenced to 90 days and barred him from ever holding public office again and will be required to perform 1,500 hours of community service and three years’ probation under the terms of his conviction. (2014)[21]
State Assemblywoman Mary Hayashi (D) She was charged with felony grand theft after being caught on video surveillance allegedly shoplifting $2,445 worth of merchandise from San Francisco's Neiman Marcus store.[22][23] She was sentenced to $180 fine and three years probation and was ordered to stay more than 50 feet from the store. (2011)
*Local*

Mayor of San Diego Bob Filner (D) given three months of house arrest, three years probation, and partial loss of his mayoral pension after pleading guilty to state charges of false imprisonment and battery. (2013)[24]
Just recently and only 1 State....no GOP guys?

Illinois is better suited for your argument as 3 of the 13 were GOP.
New York.....damn.
Only 1 thug from Staten Island the rest lying Liberals.

This is a result of indoctrinated Liberal Sheep.
Gimme dat EBT card for lap dances and weed in exchange for a straight ticket vote. Dont matta who day are.
Great group of lying Liberals.
You should be proud.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Was that you attempting to parody African-American ghetto talk in text?

Oh yes, you're definitely down with the brothas.


----------



## Soundhound

Stealing from Neiman Marcus? Man, you're really grasping at straws, careful you're gonna throw your back out. How about some genuine thuggery? What did Dick Cheney say to Pat Leahy, on the floor of the United States Senate, when discussing the fact that Cheney RUNS Halliburton, which made a fortune on the war he lied us into: "Go fuck yourself." 

Chris Christie, I mean Tony Soprano, creating a traffic nightmare on the GWB to get back at the mayor of Fort Lee for not supporting him. There's a republican for you.

Way more fun when these low level mafia goons are caught on camera:



On April 28, 2014, Grimm was charged by federal authorities with 20 counts of fraud, federal tax evasion, and perjury.




chimuelo said:


> *California*
> 
> State Senator Ron Calderon (D) convicted of money laundering. (2016)[17]
> State Assemblyman Tom Calderon (D) convicted of money laundering. (2016)[18]
> State Senator Leland Yee (D) charged with bribery, public corruption and gun trafficking.(2014)[19][20]
> State Senator Roderick Wright (D) was convicted of eight counts of perjury and voter fraud. He was sentenced to 90 days and barred him from ever holding public office again and will be required to perform 1,500 hours of community service and three years’ probation under the terms of his conviction. (2014)[21]
> State Assemblywoman Mary Hayashi (D) She was charged with felony grand theft after being caught on video surveillance allegedly shoplifting $2,445 worth of merchandise from San Francisco's Neiman Marcus store.[22][23] She was sentenced to $180 fine and three years probation and was ordered to stay more than 50 feet from the store. (2011)
> *Local*
> 
> Mayor of San Diego Bob Filner (D) given three months of house arrest, three years probation, and partial loss of his mayoral pension after pleading guilty to state charges of false imprisonment and battery. (2013)[24]
> Just recently and only 1 State....no GOP guys?
> 
> Illinois is better suited for your argument as 3 of the 13 were GOP.
> New York.....damn.
> Only 1 thug from Staten Island the rest lying Liberals.
> 
> This is a result of indoctrinated Liberal Sheep.
> Gimme dat EBT card for lap dances and weed in exchange for a straight ticket vote. Dont matta who day are.
> Great group of lying Liberals.
> You should be proud.....


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> Was that you attempting to parody African-American ghetto talk in text?
> Oh yes, you're definitely down with the brothas.



Actually mimicking freeloader wannabe gangsta's, this is how they text as well as talk.
They're mostly white FWIW.
Part of the "where's my stuff culture" created over the last 9 years.
Started with 99 weeks of unemployment.
My son even tawks like dat bra....

And by all means, please post these worthless Conservatives and Lying Liberals and their crimes.
There's literally hundreds in DC, and thousands throughout local and state districts that rarely get mentioned by our foreign owned media.

Mostly because they have these "well informed voters" that pull the handle not even knowing how many ex convicts like a former Tong Leader, gets to go to DC and make deals....
Did you know you can be a x hit man or drug dealer, and still become a Congressman?

Feinstein use to brag about her gangsters, then the FBI gathered them up in a sting, many other lying Liberals got off the hook for turning states evidence. Learned that from Liberal Leader "Reverend" Al Sharpton, former FBI rat. 
Feinstein was embarrassed I am sure, but her husband got insider tips from her and bought out entire neighborhoods, many of her voters lost their homes for good, but there's always more Sheep in Cali to keep wifey working....probably proud of that one though.

Grimm from Staten Island is a major thug. Threatening reporters...Who does he think he is..? Eric Holder..?
A good balance for tax cheat Charlie Rangle (Chairman of the Ways and Means Committe that writes tax laws) who was found "not guilty" of tax evasion, (he just forgot about those Beach Properties he rents out) and who can forget the Sexual Predator (mostly minors) Anthony Weiner....
But they care about the little people. 

Hey why does Anthony Weiner like 29 year olds...?
Because there's 20 of them....ankyu
He did have a girl that was 45 though..................pounds.......ankyu


----------



## Baron Greuner

This is more like it! This is heating up! No more stinking liberals! No prisoners! No prisoners!

Anyway..... Europe is losing the golf ATM.


----------



## NYC Composer

This isn't a discussion of liberalism and conservatism. Donald Trump isn't a conservative. He's a gasbag who inherited money and knows how to get press by saying crazy crap. He doesn't actually have any positions about anything except how to stay in the media spotlight by any means necessary. That's a skill, no doubt about it, but he has no politics, no ethical positions, not really. He doesn't want to make anything better for other people, he clearly doesn't possess that kind of empathy. He wants to wave his dick around and enjoy the adulation of those he's managed to con.

He's said the only reason he could possibly lose is if the election is rigged, and he suggested there might be violence if that's so. He's suggested someone might try to assassinate Ms. Clinton. It's not amusing. The peaceful transfer of power is an absolute necessity to prevent anarchy. The man is an irresponsible playboy without a care for anything but himself, and if people get hurt because he rouses his rabble following the election, I hope he's arrested for sedition.


----------



## chimuelo

Then lets arrest Sharpton/Soros/Holder, take away the Ferguson riot organizers job as a professor at Yale.
Its another given away by politicians to "friends" to teach, but are never really there.
Senator Warren gets the same purchasing program treatment, I really wish she would just be a Senator and stop allowing fake Liberals to buy her mansions and corrupt her.

Watching the former gangster grand theft auto convict Daryl Issa.
Just in case Liberals here want some red meat to chew on.

Love nothing better than to see Trumps magic moment, the sooner the better.

Issa is mad because Cheryl Mills, Clintons personal lawyer, had top secret documents on her laptop, not even a federal employee, lied to the FBI, then got immunity.
Then after all of that still keeps her law license, and advised Clinton while the FBI "questioned" her.
Thats some impressive corruption.

Its why I want to vote for the Neo Con Queen.
Trump is not a Conservative and Hillary is no Liberal.

Beautifully executed unprosecutable crimes.
Impressive enough to win my vote.

Wonder if she wants Aleppo back?
Kerry is negotiating with Putin as we speak.
Probably saying we'll take them in as refugees after a massive evacuation.....
Chicagos a great place but Hillary wont give you guns there. You have to buy them.

Im With Her..
Stronger Together...
Im a new supporter

Hillary 2016


----------



## chimuelo

Super Predators are being allowed to vote in California now.
For building Solar Panels theyve earned a right to vote from thier jail cells.
Amazing the amount of Liberals we didnt know about.
I guess the Tong leader is happy to hear the FBI has been Liberalized, and now he can vote.
Hard to cheat there, lots of cameras.

I can just see HRC campaigning there, everyone chained together hurting each other as they clap.

Awesome....


----------



## NYC Composer

Neither Sharpton, Soros, Holder or Warren are running for President. Donald J. Trump, reality tv star, is. You can obfuscate and call up the sins and crimes of every liberal living or deceased, but it doesn't change that singular fact. Donald J Trump, a man who wears more makeup than Zsa Zsa Gabor and had a hair weave designed, apparently, to frighten small children, has been nominated by a large political party for the Executive Office. All he needs are the big rubber feet and the squeezable beeping nose.


----------



## chimuelo

I think he should be exposed after he throws the race for making fools of the Sheep who believed this race isnt rigged.
Thinking as a Liberal, he is telling the truth about the election being rigged.
It has to happen during the debate.
Hes gotta scare his supporters away by running after Hillary and being held back by secret service agents.
But what if his polls rise up sgain?

Most convincing act Ive ever seen.
Wonder which Hollywood coach hes using...


----------



## chimuelo

Zsa Zsa punched out a cop years ago in Hollywood.
You gotta lov that kind of Sas....dolling...


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> This isn't a discussion of liberalism and conservatism. Donald Trump isn't a conservative. He's a gasbag who inherited money and knows how to get press by saying crazy crap. He doesn't actually have any positions about anything except how to stay in the media spotlight by any means necessary. That's a skill, no doubt about it, but he has no politics, no ethical positions, not really. He doesn't want to make anything better for other people, he clearly doesn't possess that kind of empathy. He wants to wave his dick around and enjoy the adulation of those he's managed to con.
> 
> He's said the only reason he could possibly lose is if the election is rigged, and he suggested there might be violence if that's so. He's suggested someone might try to assassinate Ms. Clinton. It's not amusing. The peaceful transfer of power is an absolute necessity to prevent anarchy. The man is an irresponsible playboy without a care for anything but himself, and if people get hurt because he rouses his rabble following the election, I hope he's arrested for sedition.


And you're still not convinced he's in it to help Clinton win it?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> I challenge you (and others) to cast the most effective vote against him. Vote for Hillary.


I believe he doesn't want to win, that he's only in it to help Clinton win it. If he wins, I think he'll be a figurehead. He'll have the Clintons' ear if he can do so without detection. If not, he'll just let Pence make all the decisions.


----------



## Soundhound

Why are Republicans worse than Democrats? I'm very glad you asked. Republicans have been wrong on every issue of substance, not the least of which is the economy. Trickle down economics was always a sham, called voodoo economics by Bush when running against reagan for the 1980 nomination, and history has proven it to be exactly that.

One of the arguments that Trump makes which resonates with everyone—okay it's a reach to call it an argument, howl, exclamation, fart, vomit really is closer to the level of his thought process—is that the u.s. infrastructure is falling apart. It is, we're like a third world country compared to the rest of the civilized world. Why? Because republicans don't want to spend any money. Ever. Except for the military, which is gigantic, bloated, and wildly unnecessary. The only time republicans are willing to spend money on infrastructure is when they are shamed into it. Like when bridges collapse, or trains run into stations, killing people:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/01/n...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Republicans have been solidly in the way of progress for decades. They need to take their idiotic economic superstitions (and primitive religions) go away and let us have the country we can easily afford, build and enjoy.

The bloating of the debt was caused by 1) invading Iraq purely and solely to enrich the Dick Cheneys of the world and 2) Reagan style deregulation on steroids which caused the collapse of 2008. Blaming it on the Democrats is bullshit. The smart people who do that know what they are doing. The stupid people are just making the argument because that's what they are told by their pastors, Fox News and the Washington Times.


----------



## chimuelo

Republicans are far worse at corruption.
They get caught for silly things, mostly cheating on their wives (family Values) and Bribery....(how do you caught doing that?)

Liberals are busted for Drug dealing, gun running, human trafficking, predatory sex crimes, stealing money, taking bribes, shoplifting (Wynona Ryder Disease known as YPAY )
Far better crimes worth doing a stretch for.


----------



## Soundhound

In a word, Jimmy. Bullshit. Karl Rove level bullshit. Infrastructure destroying and world ruining bullshit. These are the kind of lies that ignorant people will hear and help them think they should vote republican. It's a crock and it makes the world a worse place. 

Invading a middle eastern country for no reason other than to enrich yourself and your pals, throwing the region into chaos and creating a worldwide terrorist movement, I would put that squarely in the serious corruption pile. 

Either provide links, names and proof for your democratic deplorable list, as well proof that republicans are not guilty of far far worse in every single instance, or stop just making shit up Jimmy. I don't think anyone here is dumb enough to fall for it, but still: be a responsible grown up for crying out loud. 



chimuelo said:


> Republicans are far worse at corruption.
> They get caught for silly things, mostly cheating on their wives (family Values) and Bribery....(how do you caught doing that?)
> 
> Liberals are busted for Drug dealing, gun running, human trafficking, predatory sex crimes, stealing money, taking bribes, shoplifting (Wynona Ryder Disease known as YPAY )
> Far better crimes worth doing a stretch for.


----------



## chimuelo

Why?
I mention them and people can do their own research.
I just gave you wikileaks, a watered down version of crimes by politicians in just one Liberal Crime Zone.
Then repeated what I read about violent criminals having last minute laws passed so they can vote.

These are your bros.
Be proud of them.

I'm impressed with what I've seen just from recent hearings.
If you want some action, watch them present the facts, then do your own research.
The Wells Fargo one is really intense.
But Comey basically explains how every agency has been operating and it's impressive.
Be proud, don't get angry.
Read about DLA Piper.
Some great stuff there.
Comeys brother is not listed in the company portfolio but secretaries and operators connect you with him when you call and ask.

Deez guys got shit wired.
Truly impressive.

That's why I decided I wanted to be on a winning team.
Don't care if it's rigged.
It's a well oiled machine.

You should proud not angry...


----------



## Soundhound

I'll read & watch the Comey stuff etc. And I'm glad you've decided to sign on with Clinton! But my point is yes the dems are corrupt, but more than that they've been cowardly. They haven't stood up to the republicans, who are always and have always been a disaster. One thing at a time, get rid of the diseased tissue first, excise the tumors of republicanism. Get the grown ups running things again. Then take the Bernie fight to those guys.

Equating republicans and democrats just gives the low information voter more reasons vote for the likes of Cruz/Ryan/Trump et al. These people destroy everything they touch, they are poison. Look at the Kansas 'experiment'. I don't want my nieces and nephews to grow up with evolution and intelligent design both considered as different ways of looking at things rationaly. Get these primitives the fuck out of government. Then and only then can the argument for progress start to be made.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Larry:



> This isn't a discussion of liberalism and conservatism. Donald Trump isn't a conservative



Right, he doesn't even know enough to talk Conservative. But as I wrote, he's the creation of the Republican party.

Are they conservatives? I could go on and on for pages about they've abandoned "free market" limited government stuff and how hypocritical they are. (Never mind that what they profess to believe in also sucks.)

Anyway, this is a discussion of liberalism - which isn't an ism - and conservatism insofar as the people who are voting for Txxxx aren't liberals.


----------



## NYC Composer

Say what you want about Mitt Romney or John McCain, the last two Republican nominees. I disagreed with them on many things, especially as they were pushed farther and farther right. However, neither was a preening dilettante with no discernible moral center, neither was a demagogue, both had a sense of patriotism and had performed public service.

Threads go where they go, but I intended this one to be about a cheap opportunist and a sign o' the times named Trump. Like him or despise him, he has turned the political establishment on its ear. He needs to be defeated soundly and we need to examine how he came to be.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Mitt Romney was useless. He invented flip flopping.

You can flip flop all you want in politics, but you need backup and routes out. Mitt Romney didn't do that and talked himself into a corner by trying to appeal to many disparate groups.


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## chimuelo

The picture of Trumps kids is epic.
This is the best argument to promote corruption vrs. Stupidity yet.


----------



## NYC Composer

Self satisfied little trophy hunting weasels with their Gordon Gekko suits and hair gel.

I've realized recently that I'm prejudiced against the inherited wealthy.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Mitt Romney was unless. He invented flip flopping.
> 
> You can flip flop all you want in politics, but you need backup and routes out. Mitt Romney didn't do that and talked himself into a corner by trying to appeal to many disparate groups.


Romney had a choice. He could pander to the fringe right or not get the nomination. That was, and is, the corner the party has painted itself into.


----------



## chimuelo

Yuze guys still associate voters with categories you've been led to believe have a majority of the power.
This election has brought the majority which has been silent out.
So much that historical registrations have occurred, and nobody ever expected such participation.

The middle class has survived the 1 / 2 punch from Conservatives and Liberals.
The trade deals have ignited a wave of resentment by corrupted politicians and their party leaders.
That's what this election is about.

Trump will not win. He wants out of this or he wouldn't continue to insult all forms of life on the planet.
That leaves HRC as the last one standing.

Her international global cartel of wealth had better listen unless 2020 becomes Brexit 2.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Her international global cartel of wealth had better listen unless 2020 becomes Brexit 2.



Interesting you should mention that, Jimbo. I've been thinking and reading, reading and thinking. I'm pretty much to the point where I believe there is no remaining hope for this union, and that we will be forced to split into two countries. It may require some relocation-Texas Democrats (all five of them) will probably have to move to Cali. All of Orange County, Ca will have to move to Texas, and to be a member of your personal new nation, you will have to accept God into your life. Deeply and fully. Start reading Scripture, dude.


----------



## chimuelo

Well you have to admit Americans are tired of D.C. & Global elites trying to decide who their enemies should be and paying into a system they don't believe in.
Perhaps rich white Liberals and Conservatives can have California Chicago and New York and use thier money to create this politically correct Master Race.

Once they've decimated their own numbers the rest of us can journey out from crime free America, show them they're wrong by worshipping thier wealthy white Gods.
We'll teach them real job skills and help them rebuild.

Brits don't want to listen to Brussells, and most Americans don't want to listen to D.C..

Let them use thier own money for once.
Adds a new perspective when you now must be accountable since it's your ass on the line instead of ours.


----------



## NYC Composer

::said the Union pensioner::


----------



## chimuelo

Not yet. Only Pension B Annuity.
Lump sum for 2nd divorce.
She was cheap, 16 large cash and the 2005 Tahoe Jimmy.

But maybe in 2018 when our exemptions expire from that incredible Obamacare feast for CEOs.
Liberals turned the 6 big banks into security exchanges so 0% interest from Fed makes stocks and bonds a great investment.
Added 275 a month since 2010.

If Trump somehow decides he doesnt want the HRC/POTUS/FBI/SEC/DOJ offer, I think I'll grab it.
Stocks and fake Liberal economy are going to tank.
Better get the greens before the bubble pops.


----------



## NYC Composer

I wouldn't have thought you had to pay your women to go away. Ankyu.

Back to my premise.

1. I think we need more regulation of the environment, not less. I believe global warming is a real thing and I believe that big oil has fucked up, for example, large parts of Louisiana, maybe beyond repair.
2. I don't think people should have unfettered access to guns.
3. I don't believe in God and don't want any God in government or schools.
4. I think it's fine to have states do their own poverty programs and programs for children and elderly but I believe in a minimum standard, so 1000 points of light ain't gonna cut it nationwide. I believe in a (substantially more efficient than we have now, but still) centralized government. There's a reason some of the most Republican states in the nation are the poorest, the least educated and the most unhealthy-they vote against their own interests because they've been sold a different bill of goods than the one you like to talk about.
5. I believe in a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body.
6. I don't believe in deporting people (except actual violent criminals) who we covertly invited here to become a low wage worker class.
7. I believe in single payer healthcare.

I could go on for a lot longer, but you probably see my point-exactly how is any of that going to fly with red state America? Not so well, I'm thinkin'. Ev-ah.

Now just ignore everything I just said and go on with your theories about boondoggles and lying liberals. I'll try not to interrupt again. Sorry.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Can one of you guys let Obama know we're triggering Article 50 by March, just to keep him in the the loop. Just in case he wants to sachet to the podium to the strains of Count Basie and let us know what he thinks.

Many thanks.


----------



## chimuelo

I agree with you Larry.
Just don't want lying Liberals in charge of anything.
Once Conservatives and wealthy white con artist Liberals are removed real change will take place.

Personally fear the idea of heavily armed Liberals.
Drive 15 miles out of my way in Chicago to avoid Liberal neighborhoods.
So cleaning up a Liberal Gun Free Zone is something I am for.


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't think drug gangs are that into voting. They do support the 2nd Amendment.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Trump is very very bad for


NYC Composer said:


> I'm not telling you anything. I'm expressing my personal philosophy about civic responsibility.


Who's really parsing words? "Tell", "express", same thing. You expressed your personal philosophy about civic responsibility. Trumpsters express the same philosophy about civic responsibility every day on my Twitter timeline.


----------



## Brian2112

NYC Composer said:


> I'm pretty much to the point where I believe there is no remaining hope for this union, and that we will be forced to split into two countries. It may require some relocation-Texas Democrats (all five of them) will probably have to move to Cali. All of Orange County, Ca will have to move to Texas, and to be a member of your personal new nation, you will have to accept God into your life. Deeply and fully. Start reading Scripture, dude.


Well, I am one of the five!

I’ve been following this thread with great interest, but have resisted the urge to post until now.

I am from Texas. I grew up in Houston and currently live in South Texas. The truth is Texas is at least half liberal. All the major cities (Houston, San Antonio, and yes, even Dallas) vote overwhelmingly Democrat. The problem is we have been so badly silenced by the Republican re-districting that inbred Jed in Kerville has his vote count double what someone in the major cities gets. Elected officials choose their voters rather than the other way around. On top of that, the electoral college system dilutes my vote even more. If you live in New York, some bumpkin in Mississippi has more of a vote than you do.

Given all of the above, my vote for Clinton won’t count for much.

But please consider this (especially Bernie Sanders and 3rd party supporters): I live among the American Taliban down here. I’m in the trenches. Every significant change that has ever happened (civil rights etc.) has been the culmination of people chipping away at it over time. Bernie proposed a revolution that I largely agree with and I don’t even like Hillary at all. But I have to vote for slightly less evil republicans down here because those are my choices. It’s a miniscule chip, but it is not a wasted vote. A wasted vote would be to vote for the democrat that has no chance. We believe that we should vote our conscience for the best candidate – and we should be able to as in the 19th century, but we now have over 300 million people (mostly uneducated) to contend with. Some would argue that this is just accepting the status quo. Maybe it is. But until I see people go by on the streets of Corpus Christi Texas with blue donkey flags, this is all I can do.

No one is going to remember how many people voted for X as a protest vote. They only remember who won. They WILL remember the margin of victory or defeat for Trump as it will just legitimize all the white supremacist, bible thumping crowd for years to come.

So yea, my measly little vote will be for Clinton.

Edit: By the way, in 1992 my house was shot at for having a Clinton Sign in my yard.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Yes. I would, with great distaste and a huge sigh vote for a an anti-choice candidate to protect America and humanity from a dangerous and inept candidate.


Really? You would vote for a pres. candidate who actively supports overturning Roe v. Wade, even if there were other candidates available?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Brian2112 said:


> I live among the American Taliban down here. I’m in the trenches. ... the white supremacist, bible thumping crowd for years to come.
> 
> So yea, my measly little vote will be for Clinton.


There's that damn term again - American Taliban. Hyperbole taken to its hyperbolic extreme.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael-can't help you with Twitter Trumpsters-I'm not on Twitter, nor Facebook for that matter, and I don't really care whether people who are for Trump are telling you the same thing-they're right. It is, finally, a binary choice.

No, I wouldn't "support" a candidate who was for overturning Roe. v Wade. I would vote for such a candidate if, in the final analysis , the other candidate likely to be elected was inept and even more deeply dangerous to the fragile notion of America....which is what I said.

What did you think of my premise that the two Americas are never going to be able to stay united?


----------



## NYC Composer

Brian-thanks for checking in. I understand the pragmatic choices you have to make. Keep rolling that rock up the hill, dude.

House shot at, well, just someone expressing their opinion, eh? 
Sheesh.

(I was joking about the 5. Obviously.)


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael-can't help you with Twitter Trumpsters-I'm not on Twitter, nor Facebook for that matter, and I don't really care whether people who are for Trump are telling you the same thing-they're right. It is, finally, a binary choice.



If it were a binary choice, there would only be two candidates. You think none of the others have a chance to win, and if so, that's only because people are deciding to vote for someone they don't like in order to stop someone they hate. These are the least liked presidential candidates in any election cycle ever. Most Americans don't want to vote for either one. If everyone would vote their conscience, neither would make 270 electoral votes.



NYC Composer said:


> No, I wouldn't "support" a candidate who was for overturning Roe. v Wade. I would vote for such a candidate if, in the final analysis , the other candidate likely to be elected was inept and even more deeply dangerous to the fragile notion of America....which is what I said.


Really? That surprises me. But there are many prochoicers who would never vote for a prolife candidate under any circumstance. 
In this race, neither of the two are prolife. The only difference is that Trump lies about it half the time, while Hillary tells the truth about her views. 



NYC Composer said:


> What did you think of my premise that the two Americas are never going to be able to stay united?


I don't really know what to think. I don't want the US dissolved.


----------



## Brian2112

Michael K. Bain said:


> There's that damn term again - American Taliban. Hyperbole taken to its hyperbolic extreme.


Perhaps. 

But then again these are things I hear every day:
1) Obama is a Muslim
2) Hillary should be (not going to say it to avoid NSA keyword and visit from FBI) for treason.
3) They want to take away our guns.
4) Christians are being persecuted in America
5) My high school student should be able to bring a gun to school to protect himself (yes, really)
6) When Trump wins, he should arrest all the Democrats.
7) Obama wants Sharia law - we should have Christian law.
8) People should be forced to go to church.
9) My child is home schooled to avoid that evolution nonsense.

Just a few of the less extreme ones. Others I don’t feel comfortable posting.

I am surrounded by an awful lot of delusional, WELL ARMED people who think God is on their side and that I am the enemy. If I'm lucky, live in a HyperBOWL!


----------



## NYC Composer

Ok Michael , we're back to parsing words. What percentage of possibility do you assign to a candidate other than Clinton or Trump winning this election? I give it zero percent, and I'd happily give you 50 to 1 odds on it. Want to risk $100?

How is it not a binary choice in any real world way?


----------



## Soundhound

Glad to hear from you Brian! Thank you for that insight into the real planet Texas. Keep the faith brother! I'm a newcomer to (living in) the south myself, quite an experience. I share a fondness for the term American Taliban. Hyperbole used in the very best way. Religion and government, they go together like oil and rat poison.


----------



## chimuelo

Brian thanks for joining the forum, perfect timing to get out the vote.

I never quite understood the folks using Texas as an example of where to migrate to for Bible Study.
Im use to driving up from the Heritage Festival to Denton then down to Austin.
Lots of friends from everywhere moved to Texas since theres low taxes and musicians get great pay.

6th Street is a dream gig.
Texas reminds of Nevada without the Casinos.
My favorite Democrats were Charlie Wilson and Ann Richards.

Glad to hear Republicans excell in widespread corruption.
They actually do something succesful somewhere.
They sure aint worth a hill of beans in DC.

I saw Bernie and Trump signs everywhere I live, now theres only Trump signs.
Nobody seems to have transitioned over to the Corporate, Wall Street, Globalist cause yet.


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> I don't think drug gangs are that into voting. They do support the 2nd Amendment.



Check out recent laws in Virginia and California for inmates to vote.
Lots of these gangs still act upon orders from the inside.

Not sure if they make thier soldiers vote but remembered how they intimidated voters last time.
Theats of violence led to arrests, but they were set free and told to wait until 2014 before doing it again.


----------



## Baron Greuner

My neighbour just got back from Texas. She's a liberal. From New Jersey. Hahaha!


----------



## Soundhound

You do this just to piss people off ,right? If you're as tapped in as you make out to be, you know that voter suppression by republicans is rampant, has changed countless outcomes. The whole voter fraud thing is itself a massive fraud. Every single right wing commentator and legislator who has contributed to the voter fraud scam should be up on charges.

A couple of guys standing around polling places in Philly, and you create this false equivalency, playing into the hands of Sean Hannity and the knuckledraggers who listen to him. Unless you're working for Karl Rove (the jury is always out on that question), why would you do that?




chimuelo said:


> Check out recent laws in Virginia and California for inmates to vote.
> Lots of these gangs still act upon orders from the inside.
> 
> Not sure if they make thier soldiers vote but remembered how they intimidated voters last time.
> Theats of violence led to arrests, but they were set free and told to wait until 2014 before doing it again.


----------



## chimuelo

I guess I should have used the convicted Acorn guys since on ocassion Liberals are arrested for fraud.
If the GOP did something illegal they should be brought up on charges.
Its awful that Liberals should be forced to have an ID. Its absurd.
Its racist but Im not sure why. Unless theres a race called no identification.
Then the white supremacists should be called no identificationists.

Just love busting Left/Right balls.
In the closing days of the staged elections trembling Sheep from both minorities will really be nail biting.
But fear not, free thinking independents will decide this race.
Hillary withstood the vast right conspiracy and shall win the indies.
Dont forget to thank us instead of being dis illusioned that 100,000,000 Liberals exist.

Just found out another new Chimuelo Jr.Jr. will be born April, 2017.

You think I want to let him grow up in a liberal neighborhood, or live under a White Supremacist 4th Reich....

Chill bro.
This doesnt mean I will lay off of fake Liberals and thier globalist society which is complex and borderless.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Ok Michael , we're back to parsing words. What percentage of possibility do you assign to a candidate other than Clinton or Trump winning this election? I give it zero percent, and I'd happily give you 50 to 1 odds on it. Want to risk $100?
> 
> How is it not a binary choice in any real world way?


How is it's not binary? By definition. I can and will choose a 3rd option. I am performing my civic responsibility; I am gong to vote for the one I think would be a good pres. Hillary or Trump will be elected largely by people who don't really want them in office. What a shame, when it could be so different if those same voters would all just wake up.


----------



## NYC Composer

No, I asked how it is not binary in a pragmatic sense, and I defined what I meant by that. You ignored what I said, you ignored the other question I asked, and moved the discussion back to how you wanted to have it.

Your Quixotic approach will probably have more impact in 2020, as I agree with Jimmy that things are very possibly going to be seeing a tectonic shift. However, for this election, it's come down to a binary choice. If you choose to participate, you can choose candidate A or B. Otherwise, you're sitting this one out.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Michael:


> You would vote for a pres. candidate who actively supports overturning Roe v. Wade, even if there were other candidates available?



There aren't other candidates available, for the 50 billionth time. Either Hillary will be our next president or Txxxx will be our last.

So of course I'd take an anti-choice candidate over a dangerously erratic pig. I find an apocalyptic threat more serious than anything else.

Still, the comparison to overturning Roe v. Wade isn't right, because someone who actively wants to take away a woman's right to choose is 100% going to be on the wrong side of a host of related issues.

The death penalty is a better example. I find it far more offensive than abortion, but Hillary doesn't want to abolish it.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...mes-out-against-abolishing-the-death-penalty/


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, congratulations n your new addition! 

Btw, that voter intimidation stuff is pure crap and I defy you to show any widespread use of it.


----------



## chimuelo

You mean a link to the jails Acorns workers were sent?
Nevada was ground zero for lying Liberals, homeless people getting 10 bucks, a dinner and a ride to the polls ( food and money only after voting).
Duplicate voting, the entire Dallas Cowboys 2012 roster was used.

Did you think Acorn was another Save the children NGO?
Defunding any Federal program requires tons of evidence and arrest records.
They were defunded and put out of business.
Liberal billionaires could have kept it alive by using thier money.
Obviously they are conservative when it comes to thier money.
It's our money they totally disrespect.

And thanks for your sincere gratitude.


----------



## NYC Composer

Like evidence that there was any appreciable voter intimidation.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> No, I asked how it is not binary in a pragmatic sense, and I defined what I meant by that.



No Larry, that's not right. You asked "in the real world". I answered the question correctly. In the "real world", there are more than two choices.

I didn't intentionally not answer your other question. I even had to go back to see what "the other question" was. Sometimes questions get lost while I'm typing out the answer to another question. That's just how it goes. There are a couple times I addressed you recently that you didn't respond to.

Anyway, my answer is that in the natural sense, it doesn't look like any 3rd party will win. But it's not beyond the realm of possibility. I'm not really entertaining the thought that any of my choices will get to 270. But as I have said before, it is entirely possible that if enough people who don't like either HRC or DJT will vote for 3rd party, they both will be denied the 270. That is my goal.



NYC Composer said:


> If you choose to participate, you can choose candidate A or B. Otherwise, you're sitting this one out.



I certainly am not sitting this one out. I am going to the booth, marking down my choice for president, and if enough people who don't like HC and DT do that, it will deny the 270. I am also voting the congressionaland other races.


----------



## chimuelo

Appreciable like a raped Muslim woman needs 4 witnesses kind of appreciable?

It's old news, you must have missed it.
Goggle Upper Darby, Deleware County voter intimidation. 
Litigate the video for us.

On another note can't wait to miss the VP Debate snorefest.
They'll just be saying "Here's what he or she meant to say."


----------



## NYC Composer

@michael-sometimes this gets into a "you say tomato, I say tomahto" thingie. "Real world/pragmatic" I think you knew what I was asking, but okaythen. Like with so many other things, we're not going to agree on this, but it's your vote.

@Chim-I'm not Googling an incident. I'm asking you if you have evidence of widespread voter intimidation that affected the election in any appreciable way- you know, like your brother bring the Governor of Florida and cronyism deciding an election. That sort of appreciable.


----------



## Soundhound

No third party candidate has won a U.S. election. There is a 0% chance that it would happen this time. Not voting for Clinton is voting for Trump. It doesn't matter what the reasons for the vote are, it's entirely irreverent. If Trump wins and you don't vote for Clinton, you helped him win the presidency.


----------



## chimuelo

No Larry.
But that would take some Chicago/Kennedy/Giancana kind of stuff.
Acorn was stopped in its tracks.
It was beginning to influence local elections in certain precincts. But was a front for community investment, whatever that means.

But having 400,000 inmates voting sure helps. If they would have granted amnesty that would have helped too.

My guess is that the GOP will propose legislation to do that so they can get those votes.

Liberals blew not securing those prospects during the super majority.
The 25 GOP members could not have stopped it.

The most ineffective super majority ever, followed by a do nothing GOP Majority.

Good for those who witnessed and remember the uselessness of these 2 party's folks are led to believe somehow differ.

Bye byes begin in 2018...


----------



## chimuelo

Alec Baldwin was fantastic as Trump.
SNL was funny for once. They should thank political candidates.
As they no longer have the great writers theyre so well known.

But nothing tops Tina Fey as Sarah Palin.
I could watch those over and over like the Stooges or Producers.

Is it true Huma and HRC are lovers?
Guess they can relate to each other seeings how thier husbands sought eversion elsewhere on the Island.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Is it true that Trump likes to blow poodles? 

I mean, I don't know. I saw it on the Internet....a lot of people have been saying....


----------



## chimuelo

I think he prefers honey licked from his crevace by domesticated animals.
Yummy...
I always liked Venus Fly Traps myself.
Lower tempuraters I suppose.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

By the way, Tim Kaine... well, he's not actively trying to overturn RvW, but he's against abortion.

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/23/12259036/tim-kaine-vice-president-abortion-views-explained


----------



## NYC Composer

Meanwhile, back to my "two Americas hopelessly divided" thought-I'm reading a book called "Strangers in Their Own Land-Anger and Mourning on the American Right." In essence, a Cal Berkely professor goes to Louisiana, interviews a bunch of people (mostly Tea Party members) and tries to understand their anger, frustration and the Great Divide. In the process, she ends up explaining it to me better than anyone ever has.

Along with another book I recently read called "White Trash", I've gained a better understanding of class in America and how and why people look at things differently.

Reading books-highly recommended. It really helps to get off the Interwebs and take a deeper look into things.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> By the way, Tim Kaine... well, he's not actively trying to overturn RvW, but he's against abortion.
> 
> http://www.vox.com/2016/7/23/12259036/tim-kaine-vice-president-abortion-views-explained


Nick, maybe you can help explain something to me, something I've wondered for a long time.

I do not understand how a person can be "personally opposed" to abortion but think it should be legal. I'm not talking about someone saying _"I don't think abortion is a wise idea, but it should be legal"_. I'm specifically referring to the term "opposed", as in "being against". I mean, are there any reasons to be "opposed" to abortion other than thinking it's the killing of an innocent human being? And if someone thinks that, why are they only "personally" opposed and not "legally" opposed?


----------



## chimuelo

@ Larry...

They'll really mourn when Trump throws the race (no pun intended).
Even worse when hispanics become the majority in 2024 and make America Roman Catholic.
The complex borderless world just became simple.

Liberals are in for a big surprise as they dont seem to grasp the concept of faith.
Mexicans are so religious the Drug Cartels agreed to a 1 week truce for the Popes visit.
DEA CIA ATF and DOJ got ZERO cooperation why is why they flooded the area with assault weapons.

But the Pope comes and hundreds of 1000s walked for days through the Sonoran Desert just to see this guy in sheets with hats taller than the chefs at IHOP.....

The New America....


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

You'd have to ask him, Michael, but I think it means he doesn't like abortion but believes the state shouldn't make the decision for a woman. That's usually what "pro-choice" means.

And I think it's within the range of how most people feel, i.e. nobody actually *likes* abortion.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> You'd have to ask him, Michael, but I think it means he doesn't like abortion but believes the state shouldn't make the decision for a woman. That's usually what "pro-choice" means.
> 
> And I think it's within the range of how most people feel, i.e. nobody actually *likes* abortion.


Thanks for taking the time to offer your explanation.
If as you say, he doesn't really mean "opposed" but "doesn't like", that's more understandable to me. 
Some are very proud of their abortion, as #shoutyourabortion proves.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Are they very proud or just defiant?


----------



## NYC Composer

@ Jimmy- do YOU understand the "concept of faith"?


----------



## chimuelo

Not as long as I am voting for HRC.
I will go to confession the day after and cleanse myself of sin.


----------



## NYC Composer

There are sins and sins. Now voting for Trump-that would be a mortal sin.


----------



## Soundhound

Rabid anti abortion (American Taliban) people often like to say that people who support a woman's right to have an abortion, like abortions. It's profoundly stupid, ignorant and purposely decisive, like all republican politics.


----------



## chimuelo

Be nice now SHound.

20-25% of the nation are Liberals.
Maybe 15% of Liberals pay taxes.
That means the Taliban which is 25-30% of America combined with the other 45% of the nation ( non indoctrinated) are paying for Liberal subsidies.
Maybe try and show consideration for those taking care of these non productive expensive folks.


----------



## Soundhound

Be nice to the American taliban? they are anything but nice. And 15% of liberals oy taxes? it's not peyote jimmy, you're snorting some neocon's cremated remains.


----------



## chimuelo

The Most Interesting Man In The World

I dont pack often....but when I do I prefer Peyote.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy believes people who receive government subsidies are automatic liberals. Which is interesting, since so many are soldiers, old people, children, people who are really not auto-lib'rals.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Wonderful yesterday watching the virtually non existent US foreign policy completely unravel. Then blame it on the Russians. Awesome!


----------



## NYC Composer

Yes, the Russians are very benevolent in their foreign policy, as you will no doubt discover someday as the tanks roll in.

An expected benefit of Brexit- the pound sterling is plummeting. The words "free fall" comes to mind.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yes, that is good for the economy and the FTSE is now up over 1100 points since the vote. The pounds was over valued for ages. But just as the currencies realign, lets not forget that the EU is now a basket case and unlikely to survive. What will happen to the currencies then?

Lord Ashcroft, when asked by the BBC (hahahahahaha) yesterday what he thought of the Remain campaigners and campaign in general, curtly replied...

CRAP!

Tanks will never roll anywhere unless we do the rolling. Rest assured. And how refreshing to see Theresa May blow the European Court of Human Rights up it's own ass yesterday. They are history. Now, whenever a British soldier decides to blow someone's head off in a theatre of war, there will be no dirty filthy scum left wing asshole trying to bring charges. 

The world starts to become sane again. At least in the UK.


----------



## chimuelo

LoL...

Tanks have rolled into Ukraine unopposed.
Giving Crimea to Russia is the biggest mistake ever.
EU and USA watch now as the Med becomes property of the Russian Navy.
Israel is better off dealing with Putin directly than looking to Vallery and Michele for resolve.

HRC is going to be no better on foreign policy.
As Lebanon becomes the next Domino HRC will give a soft warning, Putin will send her a few copies of Foundation transactions.
Scratch off another Middle Eastern country.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yes well you see this is Great Britain and not some fucked up Eastern European bullshit.

Any tanks and then it's Vanguard class nuclear subs parked off your coast toting Trident nuclear missiles and adios muchachos.


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> 20-25% of the nation are Liberals.
> Maybe 15% of Liberals pay taxes.



Anti-tax conservatives have gotten it wrong for decades. Don't want to pay taxes? Simply become a 'Liberal'. Voila!

I'm still looking for that 'Liberal' check box on the 1040A that refunds all of my deductions. Maybe it's a different form. 

Jimmy, please connect me with your tax accountant.


----------



## Baron Greuner

The trouble with liberals is they always wind up being frightened of using the weapons they've invented.
In fact liberals are frightened of just about everything.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

What weapons are those, Baron?


----------



## Soundhound

Funny, my take is that conservatives are scared little bunnies, shuddering in their warrens. Frightened of their own government (black helicopters! run!). Frightened of foreign bad guys hell bent on our destruction (blow them up before they blow us up!). Frightened of science. (global warming is a hoax!) 

Indeed, I'd started using the words republican and pussy completely interchangeably in recent years. Led to terrific dinner conversations during the holidays let me tell you.





Baron Greuner said:


> The trouble with liberals is they always wind up being frightened of using the weapons they've invented.
> In fact liberals are frightened of just about everything.


----------



## chimuelo

French Tanks have 5 speed transmissions.
4 for reverse and 1 for forward in case of attack from the rear....


----------



## chimuelo

Conservatives and Liberals are girly men.
We'll take care of that for you after the FBI .......sorry......HRC wins the election.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Let's talk about Bengazi.


----------



## NYC Composer

Going to re-attack the Falklands, are we?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Let's talk about (Hahaha) Obamacare.


----------



## Soundhound

The macaroni and cheese of Fox News watchers. No one with an IQ over Dan Quayle wants to talk about Bengazi. 



Baron Greuner said:


> Let's talk about Bengazi.


----------



## Soundhound

Okay I'll start. 20 million people who have health coverage who didn't before. saving lives by not letting insurance companies murder people by cutting off or refusing coverage because they are ill.

Too much of a giveaway to the insurance companies, and needs to move farther, eventually to single payer healthcare. Which all non-stupid people now agree is the way to go. Who was it who tried to get single payer healthcare in the U.S. back in the early 90s and got shot down but the insurance lobby, backed by gingrich's contract-on-america band of unimaginably corrupt right wing assholes? Who was that? Whoever it was, wouldn't it be cool if she would run for president? If only we could remember...



Baron Greuner said:


> Let's talk about (Hahaha) Obamacare.


----------



## NYC Composer

How was NHS when you had your back problems, Adrian?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Let's talk about Obamacare for illegal immigrants.


----------



## Soundhound

Let's talk about grasping at straws. Let's talk about blaming the victim. Let's talk about fear mongering. Let's talk about racism. Let's talk about the right wing trying for any straw man argument when their main argument is shown to be utter nonsense. Let's talk about it!



Baron Greuner said:


> Let's talk about Obamacare for illegal immigrants.


----------



## Brian2112

Soundhound said:


> Funny, my take is that conservatives are scared little bunnies, shuddering in their warrens. Frightened of their own government (black helicopters! run!). Frightened of foreign bad guys hell bent on our destruction (blow them up before they blow us up!). Frightened of science. (global warming is a hoax!)
> 
> Indeed, I'd started using the words republican and pussy completely interchangeably in recent years. Led to terrific dinner conversations during the holidays let me tell you.



You left out the Great Walmart invasion of Texas!

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...et-military-drills-for-Walmart-cl-6214696.php

You can't make this shit up - well apparently you can...

I thought these people support the troops. But they might turn on us any second? I don't get it.


----------



## chimuelo

Anyone who doesnt see Ukraine, Crimea, Benghazzi, Libya, Yemen, ISIS, Syria, Iran Swiss Francs deal, or Obamacare as great success stories are all right wing racists and various members of the Phobe family.

Islama Phobe is a popular guy but Zena Phobe is fine.
Homa Phobe is a good friend of mine.


----------



## Soundhound

You're conflating, my brother. Isis was created by Dick Cheney. Benghazi was a witch hunt—do we have to list the number of dead in similar incidents during Bush/Reagan admins that are never, ever brought up by the Dems because it's utterly asinine? Do we really? No we don't, because we're grown ups and we read the New York Times! Obamacare was the first successful attempt at fixing the murderous u.s. healthcare system. First. Step. More to come. Right? Right. Iran Swiss Francs deal, that's a 40 year old payment due right? Negotiated by your hero RR, right? Well he never negotiated anything, his handlers did all that. 

Now if you don't mind, I have to get back to work. Let's try and keep the peyote to a dull roar today please!


----------



## chimuelo

Glad to help boost your metabolism SHound.
Youll be motivated and more productive.

Thanks for filling in the blanks so we can confirm our suspicions on what Losers lying Liberals and Conservatives are.
Thank goodness theyll be on the endangered species list after a couple more years of failing at everything they do.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Don't be silly dear boy. All elections are about fear regardless of sides.


----------



## Brian2112

Baron Greuner said:


> Don't be silly dear boy. All elections are about fear regardless of sides.


That's true. Just want it to be over. Until then, I'm just popping my anti-anxiety meds and making VE pro templates with one eye open.


----------



## Soundhound

How very Trumpian! Kellyanne could use a tag team partner, tag you're it!



chimuelo said:


> Glad to help boost your metabolism SHound.
> Youll be motivated and more productive.
> 
> Thanks for filling in the blanks so we can confirm our suspicions on what Losers lying Liberals and Conservatives are.
> Thank goodness theyll be on the endangered species list after a couple more years of failing at everything they do.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Is this the room of the man who will look out for the working man, or what? A regular Woody Guthrie.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Brian2112 said:


> That's true. Just want it to be over. Until then, I'm just popping my anti-anxiety meds and making VE pro templates with one eye open.



That's how it works Brian.

Larry threatens me with tanks and I threaten him with nuclear weapons. 

Always go big Brian. That way there can be no confusion.


----------



## chimuelo

I actually look forward to HRC/FBI/DOJ/Foundation investors winning so we can see a lame duck session.
That's where most legislation occurs as the bums leaving try and get something on their record that's of any consequence...


----------



## Baron Greuner

Cameron doesn't turn up to the Conservative party conference. First ex prime minister to do so. 

Just as the Labour Party attract communists pretending to be labour, conversely the conservatives have closet liberal appeasers that somehow manage to become prime ministers.

Say hello to 20 years of right wing conservative politics.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Let's talk about the President of the Philippines telling President Obama to fuck off.


----------



## Soundhound

Last time the republicans controlled the show the U.S. stock market had it's worst decade ever. After its best with the Clinton 90s. Sell sell sell!!! My stock broker is right wing, he says we're in for a 15 year bull market. I am doomed.




Baron Greuner said:


> Say hello to 20 years of right wing conservative politics.


----------



## Soundhound

Right wingers have an amazing fascination with being dissed. Thin-skinned Trumpitis. One must wonder what it is they are so defensive about? 



Baron Greuner said:


> Let's talk about the President of the Philippines telling President Obama to fuck off.


----------



## chimuelo

The regulators control the markets too bro, and they are whatever you want them to be.
Theyre left or right.
Even they know claiming affiliation to either crime family limits options.

Bernie Madoff paid them handsomely for a bill of good health.
How you can audit him and have him go before the SEC and get the OK shows you how regulators are tools of the trade...pun intended.

Liberal senators daughter from Mylan who raised prices on food allergy injections gave the Foundation money so shes safe.
Warren Buffet owns a large chunk of Wells Fargo.
Anyone here think hell take a cut in pay?

Each case above mentioned were discovered by whistle blowers?
Both huge Liberal donors too.

Guess the regulators have been Liberals these days.


----------



## JonFairhurst

It's hours before the vice-presidential debate starts. And the RNC has already declared the Pence won!

GOP: Facts and reality be damned. Fraud is good when it is for money and power!


----------



## chimuelo

Of course.
Spin doctors gotta earn thier pay..

Just saw my first Trump commercial today.
Ive been spared the Hillary ads since they dont see States with lots of working folks worth spending money on.
But Trumps commercial is definitely a treat.
You see some white folks, but all of the various minorities got audio spots.

These guys are bonkers.
After insulting everh race religion and culture they think they still got a shot?


----------



## NYC Composer

...except the Jews. Nobody fucks with the Jews. If Trump's Klan Konnections fuck with the Jews, he will chide them.
He's from NY.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Yes well you see this is Great Britain and not some fucked up Eastern European bullshit.
> 
> Any tanks and then it's Vanguard class nuclear subs parked off your coast toting Trident nuclear missiles and adios muchachos.


When Putin goes to sleep at night, he tosses and turns, worrying about the military might of the British Empire.

:::chortle:::


----------



## chimuelo

Trumps in with the Jews.
He has several attorneys from the Wall Street Firm Kickham & Indagroyn.
His liaison there is a fellow named Lawrence Silverbagel.......


----------



## NYC Composer

Isn't Silverbagel one of those Native American Jews?


----------



## chimuelo

Remnants of the Lost Tribe.

In Illinois theres a huge industrial area called Sauget and Cahokia.
Theres these huge manmade hills that are burial mounds.
Originally written about in Lewis & Clarks journal were thought to be descendants of Chief Pontiac.
But archeologists are not allowed to go again ever.

Heinrich Schleimer dug there and found Armaic and ancient Hebrew wriitings on pottery and word travelled quickly.
Its not allowed even on Google Maps.
Theyre called the Cahokia Mounds.

Theres more south of the Ohio called Wickcliffe Mounds too.
Kind of figured it wasnt Indians as the Mounds all replicate small scale designs of Mt. Sanai.


----------



## chimuelo

Theres also a black Indian Tribe in Nevada.
They shared an area called Washoe, east of Tahoe with the Paiute Indians.
But the Washoe Indians are unique. They were named by Kit Carson, of Carson City fame.

Seems Carson traded with Blackfeet, Crow and Shoshone as he travelled West.
Trading mirrors binoculars and pistols, etc.
Then he comes across a black indian chief and wondered what was left to trade.
The chief wanted the livestock.
So when the deal was done Carson asked if the trade would guarantee him safe passage through the valley.
The black Indian Chief waved his arm to the west and said "Why Sho."
Hence the name Washoe Indians.

Ankyu


----------



## chimuelo

Meanwhile back at the Ranch.
I can only tolrate a few sentances of the Veep debate. More like the mass-debate.
They both fail at trying to convince the Sheep thier superior is superior.

Fuckin waste of time.
Must watch the new Jack Reaper trailer again.


----------



## NYC Composer

I turned it off 20 min in.


----------



## chimuelo

After the primaries everything is boring.

My favorite Trump highlight was when Kasich finally got a break and went to eat and had a stack all buttered up and syrupy and tried to answer a reporter with a mouthful.

Trump immediately said "what a disgusting human, did you see him shovelling pancakes into his face..?"

I holwed at that one.
The good old days when I still believed the election was real.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, he could win. I'm telling you.

Whatever conspiracies you believe in-even if they were true, the plans could go awry.

You have to start considering, as I have, the actual results of a Trump Presidency.


----------



## chimuelo

Today a State Department regulated arms dealer had his case dismissed and 200,000 dollar fine dropped.
He threatened to make his case public.
All over his deal to arm rebels in Libya.
Just another deal gone bad where ISIS fighters got American weapons again.
Boy those guys are good at "accidentally" getting shipments.

On the other hand I still think the DOJ stepping in again to save the selected winner is admirable.
Having Ecuadorian President silence Assange, I mean if that isnt enough the entire Liberal media machine on the attack is a display of immense collusion.

Theres no way that Trump is going to win even if this is real.

I read Russian media, the same as American Pravda, but civilians are training to hide in thousands of newly built bunkers practicing bomb drills like I did when I was a kid.

Wonder whats on thier mind?
They have all of the emails so Clinton appears to be who they prefer to win.
Hence the Assange switch a roo.

Maybe like you they think Trump will win so prepare for thermo nuclear war.


----------



## NYC Composer

Putin clearly wants Trump to win, as he looks forward to carving up Ukraine, the Muddled East and Africa over caviar and KFC with the Donald, stroking his ego and pretending to be a gruff, friendly bear as he picks Trump's pocket.


----------



## chimuelo

He already carved up eastern europe and the middle east thanks to Vallory, Hillary, Michele and Merkel.
Another silly liberal arms embargo let putin into Egypt now too.

Trump would be the wrong guy at the right time.

You see I realize Clinton could never win againsg any GOP candidate.
To escape her failures and recent scandals they needed to destroy the GOP and find a candidate more appalling than her.
An arrogant Patton esque billionaire with everything to gain by losing is perfect.

The sad thing is the media is throwing the race by thier obvious gangland tactics.
Between Clintons stupid mouth and the entire collusion process, they might throw the race. 

But if I can see that others can and they can draw down by the beginning of early voting next week.

If they can just shut up until Halloween they got it made.

Americans hatd the media and despise DC.
No need to drive them to the wrong poll.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> He already carved up eastern europe and the middle east thanks to Vallory, Hillary, Michele and Merkel.



And mainly Obama. 

This is what is meant by 'zero foreign policy'.

Now we are out of the EU, we are very much looking forward to doing business with all these other countries such as Russia for example.

The USA, according to Obamacare, thinks we'll have to go right to the back of the 'queue' if we leave the EU.

Hahahah! You can't make this stuff up.


----------



## NYC Composer

Touchy, touchy, touchy.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Not as touchy as Trump supporters will be if Hillary wins by a really narrow margin.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yes. Would you enjoy some violence?

You really worry me sometimes, Adrian.


----------



## chimuelo

Most already believe Trump will lose.
Especially the GOP.
They want HRC as they will get more money for legislation since they can say "let me get back to you" instead of thanks for the cash.
Price of poker simply goes up.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Here is a summary of Mike Pence's debate performance piece:


----------



## JonFairhurst

Here's Slate's take on it. 

*This Wasn’t a Debate. This Was a National Gaslighting.*

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...e_he_was_shameless_about_denying_reality.html


----------



## JonFairhurst

Slate published a previous article that summarizes gaslighting well here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_...from_films_to_psychoanalysis_to_politics.html

My favorite examples are the simple ones:

"I'm rubber, you're glue." - basic crazy-making through projection.

"You touched me." "No, I didn't. Why are you so oversensitive?" - Fact denial, with bonus points for victim blaming.

Somebody close to me was the victim of a gaslighter. The guy was an egotistical manipulator. Gaslighting sucks. To fight it, one needs to recognize it, find effective strategies, practice them to develop effective techniques, and to employ those techniques.

BTW, global warming isn't real, according to this one scientist. It's a Chinese hoax. Why are you supporting the Chinese?


----------



## NYC Composer

Pretty good hoax, all that unbreathable air in major Chinese cities. Man, they are devious.


----------



## chimuelo

Why do Liberals insist they are tough on Russia.
Even Slate uses catchy phrases like HRC will get tough on Russia.

This is stupid as the people of Russia are not the enemy.
And Obama helped create a stronger Putin by getting HRC and Obama's ass handed to them on every single endeavor.

The world has little respect for Liberals and thier incompetence abroad.
You don't win anything by having girly men with ball point pens.

Agree on debate being a lame string of misplaced pre programmed one liners.

HRC and the DNC can't even protect thier computers.
Our adversaries are focused and strategic.
Liberals are 24/7 fundraisers.
The incompetence of securing thier own house shows what they truly stand for.

I feel sorry for Liberal voters as they actually believe these ass clowns somewhat stand with them.
Only during an election.
Then it's back to self enrichment and ROI for their investors.

Yet the Sheep still believe after so many years a new designation for restrooms after failures as far as the eye can see is some big Fucking achievement....

Koom Bye Yah.
I'd like to teach the world to sing in 3 part harmony......


----------



## Soundhound

This is beyond entertaining, fellas! Being able to listen in to the paranoid ravings of the insane right wing has always made for unparalleled comedy. 

Do you get that this is what you sound like? Of course not, the key to great comedy is to play it straight, and own the character.






Baron Greuner said:


> And mainly Obama.
> 
> This is what is meant by 'zero foreign policy'.
> 
> Now we are out of the EU, we are very much looking forward to doing business with all these other countries such as Russia for example.
> 
> The USA, according to Obamacare, thinks we'll have to go right to the back of the 'queue' if we leave the EU.
> 
> Hahahah! You can't make this stuff up.


----------



## Soundhound

Holy shit for brains, Batman! 

The right wing is, indeed, the gift that keeps on giving to comedy writers. 






Brian2112 said:


> You left out the Great Walmart invasion of Texas!
> 
> http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...et-military-drills-for-Walmart-cl-6214696.php
> 
> You can't make this shit up - well apparently you can...
> 
> I thought these people support the troops. But they might turn on us any second? I don't get it.


----------



## chimuelo

Right on.

More examples of the worthless fake left / right dog & pony show.
Eventually Sheep from both sides of our self serving elites will sheer their wool and form an American Workers Party instead of the globalist freak show and thier paid for mouthpieces.


----------



## Soundhound

Cutting and pasting. zzzzzzzzzz



chimuelo said:


> Right on.
> 
> More examples of the worthless fake left / right dog & pony show.
> Eventually Sheep from both sides of our self serving elites will sheer their wool and form an American Workers Party instead of the globalist freak show and thier paid for mouthpieces.


----------



## NYC Composer

You love to veer from the standard talking points of the right to the "they're all corrupt and you're all sheep", don'tcha Jimmy? It's a great act.


----------



## chimuelo

An act is the DNC and GOP.

I'm a legitimate businessman, but thanks for acknowledging my greatness...


----------



## chimuelo

Both of the families I raised agree too.
Even my Xs.

In my world divorce means paying your wife not to live with you.
Providing 2 different rooms for your kids is great.
Each parent competes for the child's approval.

Lots of benefits depending how you.look at things.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Why do Liberals insist they are tough on Russia.



I've been a liberal for all my life and never insisted I was tough on Russia. 

Although, I AM curious-why does DJT want to lick Putin's ass so throughly? Does he want to learn from the master, how to irradiate political opponents with plutonium, imprison them, kill journalists and dissenters, foment hate against gays, how to annex territory, how to rule as a dictator instead of as a public servant? 

I agree, Russia is not "THE enemy", but they're certainly no friend and that "not an enemy" status is looking a little precarious at the moment.


----------



## NYC Composer

Re women-I thought they would have just run, taking only the clothes on their back and a keyboard or two....


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Everyone who doesn't think everyone else is a sheep is a sheep.

Or something like that.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> An act is the DNC and GOP.
> 
> I'm a legitimate businessman, but thanks for acknowledging my greatness...


Nope. You're a Conservative, but you want it both ways. You want to recite Conservative talking points (which you believe) then present a larger overview that all politicians are bad and the system is rigged. That way, you get to appear to be objective, though really, you're not at all.

I repeat, great act. Highly entertaining and you can dance to it. I give it an 85.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Shit I may have to write some music soon. That's a drag. This is much more fun. Watching liberals in print is akin to sheep shearing in the Australian outback in the 1950s.


----------



## Soundhound

We must not allow... a doomsday gap!


----------



## Soundhound

Holy Trumporama! Take what someone else says, reframe and send back. Cutting and pasting with a thesaurus. 

C-



Baron Greuner said:


> Shit I may have to write some music soon. That's a drag. This is much more fun. Watching liberals in print is akin to sheep shearing in the Australian outback in the 1950s.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron- put the Mauser down, get OFF that rooftop and back into your chair. Good lord-you could break a hip!


----------



## JonFairhurst

Man, I wish we had one o' them doomsday machines...

Maybe we can get us some Cyber!


----------



## chimuelo

Why aren't we seeing GOP emails.

I got a feeling Sheep will clack their hooves in approval when real off the hook Trump emails are released Monday after Halloween....

Mom got an invite sent to my late father that allows Hall of Famers to attend the Washington University debate.
Too late now as the deadline for seats was late September.

Its a damn big venue.
I might have missed out on a historical event.
Hell I might got to ask a truly vital question like Liberal journalists do, like Sectretary Clinton.....why are you so great of a leader, and were you always great or did it happen while you were serving the great citizens of the USA....?


----------



## JonFairhurst

If VI-Control were to remove every post that included the words "Sheep" and "Liberal", would Jimmy exist?


----------



## chimuelo

Sure, but only in Gear, Samples and DAW threads above where I dont dare insult musicians and engineers by bringing up those who get wealthy serving us..

Great video FX for the era no?
Loved watching him again in The Good Wife.


----------



## Soundhound

And a great story, great script, great everything, great movie!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Has anyone important been shot yet?


----------



## JonFairhurst

Trump:_ "Nev-AHHH-da. And you know what I said? I said, 'when I came out here,' I said, "nobody says it the other way. It has to be Nev-AHHH-da, right? And if you don't say it correctly... And it didn't happen to me, but it happened to a friend of mine. He was killed." _I'm not sure if the "friend" was important or shot.

This from a guy who built a casino there with his name on it.

Hillary be like:





_The above quote is from the video here: http://www.nbcnews.com/card/trump-gives-lesson-pronouncing-nevada-gets-it-wrong-n660646_


----------



## NYC Composer

I particularly enjoy the calm, civil and assured tone Mike Pence uses as he verbally supports the will of Satan.

More and more ex-Republicans are saying that Trump is uniquely unfit to hold the office, but of course most of them have little to lose. The quirky thing about all of this is that I truly believe any average Republican, any Mitt Romney, John McCain, John Kasich Paul Ryan type would be winning this thing in a walk. I suspect Ryan would be kicking himself except for the fact that I truly don't believe he wants the job. Even a fire breather like Cruz might have this thing won, but no. The Republican party has allowed the tail to wag the dog yet again.

The preponderance of evidence that this man is uniquely and fully unfit is so strong that I'm finally believing that, unless there is a major black swan event, even the pissed off and fickle American electorate probably won't elect him. I hope that's true, but even if it is, something close to half the electorate will have voted for him. It will be interesting to see what happens next.


----------



## JonFairhurst

NYC Composer said:


> I particularly enjoy the calm, civil and assured tone Mike Pence uses as he verbally supports the will of Satan.



Pence is truly Hypnotoad. Evil Hypnotoad.

So, now Trump claims that he called women pigs, etc. "for entertainment purposes." Oh. That makes it just fine then.

So if I were to say that Trump is a lot like Hitler "for entertainment purposes", does Godwin's Law not apply? Not that I would ever say it. I'm just asking for my friend from Nev-AHHH-da.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> The quirky thing about all of this is that I truly believe any average Republican, any Mitt Romney, John McCain, John Kasich Paul Ryan type would be winning this thing in a walk. I suspect Ryan would be kicking himself except for the fact that I truly don't believe he wants the job. Even a fire breather like Cruz might have this thing won, but no.



If the GOP would dump Trump and recruit McMullin, who is more center-right, he would wipe Hillary off the Electoral Map.


----------



## chimuelo

Pam Bondi and Gov. Scott agreed to let Trump stay in his Palm Beach property so he could film himself for campaign purposes.
Hurricane Matthew appears to be coming for the Donald.

When the storm is over Trump will be seen exiting the Golf Course Clubhouse throwing 2 by 4s in shredded soaking wet clothes.

Trump responds to reporters yelling that Crooked Hillary wouldn't have made it to the Clubhouse much less weathered the Storm.

I'm the Donald, ....and I support this message.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Minor edit:

_When the storm is over Trump will be seen exiting the Golf Course Clubhouse _*while his foreign workers are busy *_throwing 2 by 4s in shredded soaking wet clothes._

What? You want the guy to have a heart attack? Besides, laboring is not how Trump rolls.

GW Bush, on the other hand, would definitely be wearing jeans and have a chainsaw. He loved him that chainsaw.


----------



## chimuelo

I was thinking more along the lines of the Greek style of tragic irony where a 14' foot Alligator awakens, then drags the Donald into the water.

Hillary laughing tries to get in front of the cameras hits quicksand and goes down as her girly men Google trying to see how to save a whale from quicksand.

Pence beats Kaine.
America starts to pray again.
Crime in Liberal neighborhoods drops 80%....


----------



## JonFairhurst

You forgot to add that sheep herds engulf the country as the price of wool falls to record lows. To prove that global warming is untrue, Pence requires his staff to wear all-wool clothing year round in the form of sheep costumes.

Futurama returns to the airwaves, but the only episode allowed is "Everybody Loves Hypnotoad."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Futurama_episodes#Everybody_Loves_Hypnotoad


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> If the GOP would dump Trump and recruit McMullin, who is more center-right, he would wipe Hillary off the Electoral Map.


Might be just a tad late now, Michael.


----------



## Soundhound

Exactly what I'm worried about. After coming so close to electing Donald Trump, the regressive, dangerous, hateful, religious maniacs will seem normal to the voting public. If the American Taliban does manage to take over, we're doomed. Abortion will be illegal. Confusing religion and science will be the norm. Ignorance, fear and primitive superstition will take over. These morons have been trying to move the clock back to the middle ages and have done very, very well. If they actually gain power, we're screwed.



Michael K. Bain said: ↑
If the GOP would dump Trump and recruit McMullin, who is more center-right, he would wipe Hillary off the Electoral Map.


----------



## Soundhound

Rick Scott is saying he won't extend voter registration period in light of the hurricane. Nice. Why do people vote for republicans? It's amazing. They are obviously corrupt, hell bent on depriving people of their right to vote. Making shit up like voter fraud, which is a complete fraud. Every single one of these bastards who pass laws and restrictions designed to keep people from voting should be in jail.


----------



## chimuelo

Liberals should just get off thier lazy asses, wipe thier glasses clean, put down the chips and go to the DMV and get an ID.


----------



## Soundhound

You don't really mean that. You're not that selfish, ignorant or stupid. You're just trying to get my metabolism moving again. 



chimuelo said:


> Liberals should just get off thier lazy asses, wipe thier glasses clean, put down the chips and go to the DMV and get an ID.


----------



## chimuelo

What kind of person has no indentification?
I guess a majority of Liberals.
You had to have an ID to register, just bring an EBT Card that matches a name.


----------



## Soundhound

Seriously Jimmy? Really? Lots of people can't afford cars or credit cards. And what does any of that have to do with the real issue. The ID thing and voter fraud is completely trumped up bullshit. For someone who purports to see conspiracy behind every hedgerow, your Reagan love leaves a giant blind spot for right wing corruption. Really, Kellyanne and Roger Ailes would pay seriously good money, you're leaving tons of dough on the table.


----------



## chimuelo

To vote you must be registered no?
That required an ID.
No longer have it?
No problem a social security card?
Lost that too?
How about one of the tax payers subsidized power bills, or just your EBT Card.
I bet Liberals dont lose those.....


----------



## Soundhound

So many people fall through the cracks in this society. Why not lift everyone up? Starting with making it as easy as possible to vote. There is no reason not to. The right wing's arguments are entirely specious, anti-democratic, and borne from the idea that they know their ideas aren't shared by most people, so the fewer people that vote, the better. Why help these thieving cowards?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Substitute "black people" for liberals and you'll have the reality. That's what it's all about: almost all black people vote for Democrats.


----------



## NYC Composer

I know I'm a member of the nanny state, but is being demeaning to each other really that much fun?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

This is exactly why I can't stand the Republican party, by the way. The ones who don't actually "think" like this are happy to vote for people who use them as their base.




chimuelo said:


> To vote you must be registered no?
> That required an ID.
> No longer have it?
> No problem a social security card?
> Lost that too?
> How about one of the tax payers subsidized power bills, or just your EBT Card.
> I bet Liberals dont lose those.....


----------



## NYC Composer

An amazing number of the "liberals" you describe (poor people who get government benefits in your dog whistle description) are quite conservative.


----------



## chimuelo

Actually I think they want to be Independent.


----------



## JonFairhurst

We should generalize about people more. People who are generalized really like it and it's super good at deepening the conversation.


----------



## NYC Composer

By the way-this big storm on the east coast-you know the reason for it?

Obama. Of course. :::nods sagely:::


----------



## Baron Greuner

Good news from the UK at last. Looks like Mother is going out to get Carney removed. About time too. The guy is the third and final asshole of the Cameron trio. Back to a fiscal economy. Hurrah!

Get ready for interest rates in the future to start rising.

Other good news from the UK. Corbyn makes Diane Abbot shadow Home Secretary (hahahahaha). Brilliant move putting a security risk into that role.
Hurrah!

Also makes Shami Chakrabarti Shadow Attorney General. (Hahahahahahahah)
Another security risk. Hurrah!

Prediction: Next General election Labour gets less than 75 seats.


----------



## Soundhound

Like there's any need for evidence of Elvis Costello's poetic genius, his revulsion at conservative politics (in the form of Margaret Thatcher) is so beautiful. Jesus, can that guy write:

Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
Long enough to savor
That's when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down


----------



## chimuelo

I always found solace in John Lennons Imagine.

Imagine there's no liberals
It's easy if you try
No Conservatives to tell us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah...

Imagine there's no ghettos
It isn't hard to do
No drugs to kill or die for
Jobs for me and you
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the American Workers Party will be one...

Ankyu


----------



## Soundhound

One imagines if Lennon saw that he'd laugh, buy you a drink, and then proceed to get shitfaced and break your nose. That song is of course about the evil scourge that is religion, and is exactly against right wing politics.

We lost him way too early. Always thought it was a crying shame his killer succeeded and Reagan's failed. As my father always said, life's not fair.


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## NYC Composer

You thought it would have been a good thing if Reagan's assassin succeeded in killing him?


----------



## JonFairhurst

The latest news is that Trump was caught on tape saying this:
_"And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything… Grab 'em by the pussy."_

Now I understand the situation. Trump has "grabbed" his supporters. They let him do it. They let him do anything. He's a star.


----------



## Soundhound

Absolutely. He was made into a saint by the insane far right anyway. As someone recently said, what have we got to lose? He was a menace. 

But in a much easier light, if we had to choose between losing John Lennon or Ronald Reagan to murder, no thought even needs to be applied. Talk about a win win!




NYC Composer said:


> You thought it would have been a good thing if Reagan's assassin succeeded in killing him?


----------



## JonFairhurst

When Donald Trump asks for my vote, I say, "No!"

Do I have to explain to him that, "'No' means 'no'"?


----------



## Andrew Aversa

www.cnn.com/2016/10/07/politics/donald-trump-women-vulgar/index.html

For reference. Does anyone want to try and defend these comments or complete non-apology? ("I'm sorry if you were offended.")


----------



## JonFairhurst

No true apology includes the word, "if".


----------



## chimuelo

Things are going according to plan. Impressive.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I mentioned "gaslighting" a few pages back. It's a strategy where the perp turns the table and blames the victim/accuser/whomever.

This approach to an "apology" is classic gaslighting. "...if anyone was offended" means that if nobody were offended, there would be no problem. So it's your fault for being offended.

In other words...
"You touched my arm."
"Are you offended? Who cares? Why are you so oversensitive?"

Sorry, Donald. Were not oversensitive. You are a serial sexual assaulter.

And your supporters are enablers.


----------



## NoamL

The Geiger counter attached to Paul Ryan's political career is practically a metronome at this point, huh?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> No true apology includes the word, "if".


That is so true.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

3 R congressmen have revoked their endorsement of Trump. More will follow. They are finally waking up. My prediction: he will be off the ticket within a week. And i only think that's 40% wishful thinking. I actually think it will happen.


----------



## NoamL

Can't happen, ballots are printed & early voting has begun.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NoamL said:


> Can't happen, ballots are printed & early voting has begun.


He could still step down. And if that is the only way, then I'm losing hope!


----------



## chimuelo

Implosion is not yet complete.
The timing of events is lining up though.
If you want to stay ahead of the game check the Moscow Telegraph in another hour.
They usually tally up thier data we refer to as Friday data dumps pretty quick.
I like Mexican papers more in this election as they are on Clinton's shit list and fear/despise Trump.


----------



## Baron Greuner

_In Bernie's accent.
_
Oh my God! Oh my God! I say onto yous, If he recovers from diss, he's next best to Lazarus!


----------



## Baron Greuner

I can see the meeting now.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Yet more gaslighting:

The tactic of Trumpers on social media is to say that, "Bill raped. Hillary rape-shamed the victims. And you support this?"

The old rubber-glue defense. 

No. Voting for Hillary doesn't make me a p*ssy grabber, let alone an egotistical sociopath who brags that he abuses his position of status to commit sexual assault.


----------



## chimuelo

I want Melania to speak out.


----------



## Soundhound

If you've seen Zoolander, you've heard her speak out.




chimuelo said:


> I want Melania to speak out.


----------



## chimuelo

Polls show Trumps black and Hispanic support has jumped several points.
The NFL, NHL, NBA, MBA and several rappers now support Trump.

Afghan, Iraqi and Gulf State allies have spoken out and shown support.

Guess they got men only spa clubs and sports teams.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Chim:



> Things are going according to plan. Impressive.



So the evildoers knew all along that of all the crazy things your pal has said over the course of the campaign, this would be the one that caught on?

Are the same conspirators in charge of this the same ones who caused Txxxx to demolish the rest of the clown car posse?

And how did they win over the conspirators who ran him just to make the other clowns look sane?

Inquiring liberal sheep want to know.


----------



## Baron Greuner

All the sheep need to know is that their lives and who they vote for are controlled by the media.


----------



## chimuelo

He's the Clinton's pal Nick.

Numerous parties, returned checks, weddings, ground breaking ceremonies and decades of pictures explain those events.
Liberal and Conservative voters are Sheep that vote the same undefendable shit every election.

Its the Independents and millions of newly registeted voters that put people in office. Us folks sadly are in charge of deciding which criminals perverts and liars go to DC. 

This time I believe the entire process has been comprimised. 

Every safegaurd from blaming Russia, to well known recordings, and wait until next week.
Videos of Trump snorting lines of Coke off of some call girls back....

This isnt catching on as its nowhere near as bad as what Conservative and Liberals have accepted before just because theyre indoctrinated into believing these Athenians go there to serve some bull shit cause...


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Baaaaah.


----------



## chimuelo

I hear ya...

But we be on the same team now.
I had wool to think Sanders would be allowed to win so then followed the flock over to Trumps pasture.

After careful consideration put a puzzle together.
Every month new pieces were put into place, now were down to every week, soon everyday.

Now Im convinced this is/was a grand plan.
Its impressive.
So impressed to see every branch of Government and media outlet in lock step, I have to fall in line.

Even believe what I once considered a foreign policy executed with neolithic incompetence has to be part of an even larger arena and going according to plan.


----------



## NYC Composer

As a founding member of the Illuminati, I can confirm your theory.


----------



## NoamL

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/schedule (All upcoming Mike Pence events removed from Trump website)

and:

The RNC group that is handling the entire GOTV for the Trump campaign just told its vendors to halt all print & mail til further notice

This is about to become a one man presidential campaign even more than it already was.


----------



## chimuelo

Wow....Melania just did the Hillary and Huma routine.
Guess she was cool having her snatch grabbed........

I miss the days of women grabbing me though.
On ocassion some drunk will take her top off, but Hallowen might be cool.
Huge gathering of Yachts.
We gig on the Dock at the Marina, tear down and do the clubhouse.
Lots of successful festive people. 
Last year girls walked around naked and shook it in front of the band.

Wouldnt want them holding office.
But I got something they can hold onto though.


----------



## NYC Composer

Don't run for Prez, Jimmy.


----------



## chimuelo

I am a King....why would I want to stoop down to some temporary post?


----------



## chimuelo

Little behind American media but just saw the apology video.
I honestly believe Trump has matured since he was 59....

Yuze guys need to checm out foreign mediz though.
Its really cool watching foreigners argue over our wannabe dictators.
They even start insulting and defending thier elites which seem to be as worthless as ours.
All except the Mullahs Putin and Saudi Royals.
You dont have much of a career dissing them.
But some jpunalists were celebrating the memory of the slain antk Putin jounalist.

Great stuff.
More fun than being able to predict which channel or outlet says what like we live with.


----------



## Brian2112

This thing is not over. No one snatches defeat from the jaws of victory like Hillary does.


----------



## chimuelo

Paul Ryan beats her in that endeavor.
Obama just had his legs swept from under him in 2010 as Congress had eliminated a record number of Liberals for signing a bill they didnt even read, most written by Insurance CEOs and lobbyists.

He gave a speech where he sounded almost like a conservative...
I was in shock at how he was almost apologetic about the ACA, etc.
And just when the conservatives only needed to wait out 2 years and surely make him another Jimmy Carter, Ryan incredibly started talking about cutting Social Security benefits instead of stopping the funding of the ACA.

This is why I see outside powers in control of our Government.
Ryan wasnt even a majority whip or anyone with a leadership position???

Proof these 2 law firms got each others back.
Big government parties, good cops/bad cops.
All have to report to the Chief of Police.....
The asset managers at the Fed.

Who have thrown thier support publicly behind HRC.
Even relatives over in the UK from the back room of Barclays are quite public.

This race was over way back.
Only need to keep polls close, leaks coming, and the Sheep will clack thier hooves in approval.


----------



## NYC Composer

After everything he's said, this locker room banter is what brings him down, eh? Whereas musing about using nuclear weapons or kissing Putin's ass, not so much. Jeez. I mean, who didn't know he was a misogynist?


----------



## Baron Greuner

All Yank voters that vote for Hillary say OFF OF on tv. They have never heard of the word FROM.

This had become very apparent over recent years in the Democrat camp. They use two words when they should be using one.

Democrats are also the party of the split infinitive. These are unforgivable and I think whoever wins the election should have as many people killed as is humanely possible that say 'off of' or use split infinitives.


----------



## chimuelo

I just learned what misogyinst is.
I always thought it was guys that had hard ons for massage therapy.
Figured I was one as I get a 90 every Friday.
She is the best at what she does.
5'10" Strong and long Chinese gal who calls me Meesta Jeem.
Most Presidents are misogynists I guess.
FDR, JFK, LBJ and Clinton.
Liberals must be upset that a Republican strips away their winning streak as womanizers.


----------



## JonFairhurst

It's the, "I'm a star. I can do anything." that is at the core of this. And it's the word, "pussy" that got people to pay attention.

I've been using locker rooms for years. I've never heard that kind of narcissism there. Older guys in locker rooms talk about their workout rituals, triathlon plans, and about how they deal with their injuries.

Hillary isn't remotely like Trump. She knows that with one false move, Fox News will create a TV show about it and bring it up 24/7 for a few years. She's a star who gets shit for everything.


----------



## chimuelo

I disagree 100%.

It's the condoning of sexual assault that pissed people off more.

This is locker room talk but not the coed gym, pump weights alone, take a steam venue.
Competitive sports, groupies. Cheerleaders, BJs, etc.

This won't sway anybody's vote but will change the debate venue.
Brilliant timing.

They'll skip right over the Wall Street luncheons where the elites decide what to do about the rest of us.

There's a journalist hounding Trumps sister from Una Vision.
Read about this in a Mexican newspaper. They threw her out of a building where Trumps sis is a Federal Judge. Love to hear what she thinks about her brothers lifestyle, but something tells me she knows already.

Ratings will soar for tonight but billions are being made so this won't be a deciding factor, not when there's so much money left to make.

Having a woman say she was assaulted, but too scared to come forward will be provided for debate 3.
Even if it's a lie there won't be time to investigate it.

Nobody wants another sexual predator in the white house again unless it's a Liberal.

This is their SOP.
Trump was a Liberal when he did this, a Star...
Just doesn't fit the GOP family values image very well.
But than having a lady that looks like Melania doesn't either.
That's Hollywood Liberal type of stuff.

Let us bash our selected candidates tonight after the debate.

NFL ratings are being affected.
This is the biggest money politics at its best.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh please. A list of Republican politicians and sexual shenanigans? Too easy. Same with money boondoggles-but Jimmy the non-aligned only mentions liberals.


----------



## chimuelo

That's right.
Once I agitate Liberals they'll post GOP deadbeats, then everyone can see what a sham these 2 Law Firms are.
But I don't remember Nixon, Bushes, Reagan cheating.
So Liberal Presidents have the sexual assault and cheating thing locked up unless there's hookers or even men on men stuff I might have missed.

Bernie seems free from abuse of power stuff, but did write a thesis on women who fantasize about sexual assault.
Escape proof heels, stuff like that.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yep, Nixon was theoretically faithful to his wife. Lied about Laos and Cambodia. Had to resign office for a major coverup or be impeached, but kept his pecker in his pocket.

Reagan had that little IranContra problem. There's also Nicaragua to answer for. Last few years we were governed by Nancy, or, er, "Mommy". Faithful as far as we know.

Bush 2 embroiled us in a war with a country we should never have gone into. Millions dead since.

These guys needed more blowjobs, regardless of who gave 'em.


----------



## chimuelo

Impressive results, I never new deez tangs.
So thanks confirming my suspicions that Liberals and Conservatives are worthless, dangerous, lying corrupt self serving elitists, soon to become extinct...


----------



## NYC Composer

Well Jimmy, the one thing we agree on across the board-2020 is gonna be interesting as hell, as it's all cracked open now.


----------



## chimuelo

That's right and we couldn't stop the corruption train as it had a schedule (pre paid) to keep.

My guess is a short war with various adversaries will take place over shit Americans do NOT support.

This is the bad side of electing Billionaires and Corporations "candidates" as their goals are global, and based on investments and containment of policies they deem harmful.

When I read Russian media they refer to us at the Enemy now.
Mostly because of our leaders telling us the leaks are fake and they're trying to elect Trump.
Plus the endless jive in Syria where we have no business arming people our troops were fighting less than 10 years ago.

4 more years of lies, then I want out of this shit.

Sure been fun watching the bashing of elites..


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy, conspiracy theory is political comfort food. I hope you take some kind of statin regularly!


----------



## G.R. Baumann

chimuelo said:


> Liberals and Conservatives are worthless, dangerous, lying corrupt self serving elitists, soon to become extinct



Assuming you speak of politicians, some correction would be in order. Representatives from both fractions are not becoming extinct, but experts instead, soon after they leave public life joining the ranks of Goldman Sachs or whatever globalist bloodsucking corporate you can find.


----------



## woodsdenis

I will just leave this one here !


----------



## woodsdenis

and this.


----------



## chimuelo

Hell those jobs are negotiated as soon as pollsters tell them read over various offers handed them.
All nice and lawery/legal too since they design the laws.
I follow deez guyz and can tell you this is where you learn there's no difference between their bull shit beliefs.
Hillary sums it up well with her private positions and public positions (lies).



G.R. Baumann said:


> Assuming you speak of politicians, some correction would be in order. Representatives from both fractions are not becoming extinct, but experts instead, soon after they leave public life joining the ranks of Goldman Sachs or whatever globalist bloodsucking corporate you can find.


----------



## chimuelo

Next "leaks" should be fun.
Audio of Roger Ailes and Trump talking about women.
Audio of HRC to Loretta Lynch begging to bring up Trump on charges. Lynch reminding her other favors have not been returned yet.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Jimmy I think the game pie is firmly stuck to the wall on this election. 

Incidentally, what is the election date? Save me looking it up.


----------



## chimuelo

November 8th
3rd debate Trump flips out and implodes


----------



## chimuelo

No time to recuperate.
GOP starts taking salaries from the Clinton Foundation, game over.
Trump Sheep start pretending to like HRC on Reddit Fakebook and Twitter as they fear retaliation from Federal Agencies, etc.


----------



## NYC Composer

Missing the big picture, Jim. The new race is who keeps control of both houses. I think the Dems swing the Senate and the Repubs keep the House but a lot depends on the calculus involved in whether or not to flee Trump, pull endorsement, condemn behavior but not pull endorsement, etc. Even Conway is hedging-that one surprised me, but as she's probably been Trump's better angel to Bannon's Satan and he went with Satan at this debate, it prolly has to do with infighting.


----------



## Soundhound

On the money all around, methinks. After the debate she looked like a mother who had to come to school to pick up her brat who bonked another kid on the head with a baseball bat. 



NYC Composer said:


> Missing the big picture, Jim. The new race is who keeps control of both houses. I think the Dems swing the Senate and the Repubs keep the House but a lot depends on the calculus involved in whether or not to flee Trump, pull endorsement, condemn behavior but not pull endorsement, etc. Even Conway is hedging-that one surprised me, but as she's probably been Trump's better angel to Bannon's Satan and he went with Satan at this debate, it prolly has to do with infighting.


----------



## NYC Composer

His looming over her and stalking her around the dais will probably play well with the steak, martini and grab the secretary's ass crowd but Mad Men was about the 60's. I would think women will be horrified at this as his response to his "locker room talk." Me, I always knew it was exactly who he was.


----------



## chimuelo

I think the women's vote is crucial so that's why Trump agreed to release the tape.
Going all the way back to the late 90s up into the Apprentice, Trumps actions, speeches and any liability is and was covered under contract.
Another reason I totally admire the Bill/DJT strategy.
It's brilliance deserves winning.


----------



## chimuelo

Read the agreements, even the Trump University NDA protects him.
That's why Obama had to shop the nation to finally find a judge to take it.
I also predict that falls on its face even in California where rapists get 6 months.


----------



## NYC Composer

I so admire you for staying on message!


----------



## JonFairhurst

The poor Republican Party. Trump got caught with his hand, um, "snatching" cookies. Many denounced him. But when Ryan said timid things against Trump this weekend on a live stage, the crowd voiced their wrath. Dump Trump at your own risk.

Sunday night, Trump exceeded the lowest expectations ever for a presidential debate, yet Hillary won it. (She clearly did not lose.) Had Trump ripped his pants off to show Nazi tattoos and a narrow mustache, the leaders of the GOP could have disavowed him and drowned him in the memory hole. Instead, he was just presidential enough that they're stuck with the stink of this Bozo for years to come.

Think about it. After Trump loses in November, he's not just going to sulk in his evil tower. He's going to lash out against the new administration and whip up the sewage in his base. (The inventory of "Impeach Clinton" stickers is ready to go.) And the cameras won't take their lenses off him. Trump now owns the Republican Party and he will not let the Bushes, Cruzes, and Rubios have it back. 

The GOP is no longer the Grand Old Party. GOP now stands for "Grabbers of Pussy."


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> I so admire you for staying on message!



Comprehension is the benefit of a classical education.
Analytical analysis of facts instead of wasting time reading parroted talking points by stenographers .....sorry.......liberal journalists.
Liberal news is easy to ignore since thier spokespersons tend to be unattractive and boring.

The discipline comes trying to ignore Fox News since they had major babes.

But that's easy now since the sexiest ones are gone, making millions suing a Trump like Roger A. who wasn't smart enough to use NDAs.

He found comfort in the Trump campaign where sexual assault insurance is provided.


----------



## JonFairhurst

For They Might be Giants fans: "Someone keeps moving my-y-y chair."


----------



## NYC Composer

Sorry, but some of the stupidest people in the world are brilliant when it comes to staying on message. I'm not saying that applies to you, but to me it's indicative of nothing but doggedness. Woof!

Jimmy, have you thought about the possibility that you have formed a theory and are now reshaping every piece of information you take in to fit that theory ? My take for myself is that every time I am absolutely convinced of my own rectitude, it's time to re-examine things. You seem unburdened by doubt. I wonder how that fits into a narrative of critical thinking.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> For They Might be Giants fans: "Someone keeps moving my-y-y chair."


I love that song. That whole album is incredible. Their best ever.


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> Sorry, but some of the stupidest people in the world are brilliant when it comes to staying on message. I'm not saying that applies to you, but to me it's indicative of nothing but doggedness. Woof!
> 
> Jimmy, have you thought about the possibility that you have formed a theory and are now reshaping every piece of information you take in to fit that theory ? My take for myself is that every time I am absolutely convinced of my own rectitude, it's time to re-examine things. You seem unburdened by doubt. I wonder how that fits into a narrative of critical thinking.



Well after following the Sanders flock, to the DNC rigged race email hack, to the Trump flock, then the Johnson flock, I decided my wool was to be sheared and get down to reality of things.

Trump is a serious fundraiser, but Rommel,...sorry....Reinz gets to spend that money on keeping a majority.
That and the fact the electorate is already marching and obviously well paid by Clinton investors tells me this is a great show, good entertainment, and right now 10 points down is exactly where all candidates and investors want this to stay.

This makes it even more realistic when Trump throws the race in debate 3, then the pollsters and paid stenographers can flood the media with the same bias and support for their investors.

I just tried to talk myself out of my belief of rigged elections and it didn't work.

You saw what happened to Bernie...
That small time when it comes to a binary decision.
How much money did they give Johnson..?
Nobody who ever held the position of Barista at Starbucks could be that stupid.
A Jesse Waters moment for sure, but great money as Weld didn't even appear to be surprised, and this was AFTER Aleppo..?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hillary: then it's a good job you're not in charge of making the laws.

Trump: you'd be in jail.


Hahahahah! Vote winner.


----------



## NYC Composer

Speaking ideologues-hi Adrian!

Really-vote getter. Mr Trump doesn't seem to understand that as President, he wouldn't be able to "appoint a special prosecutor." It indicates that he believes he would be elected King-and everyone knows, royalty is a matter of lineage and inbreeding, ffs!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Oh ffs Larry. Trump isn't going to be president of jack shit. This is just a lot of fun to watch. The only downside is when Hillary becomes madam president it will lower the USAs standing even more than the last 8 years. The rise of China and Russia will become inexorable and inevitable.


----------



## NYC Composer

Adrian, did you marry a weak woman or something? Cause mine would KICK your ass.

She (Hil) is no shrinking violet and we'll see about your premise.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I'm sure she would Larry.


----------



## woodsdenis

No explanation necessary.


----------



## chimuelo

Now thats funny.
The other copy/pastes made me think you bought Anniversary and BDay cards at the drug store or something.


----------



## Soundhound

When Clinton turns out to be a great president, can mea culpas be collected here, or will everyone just disappear into P.O. Box addresses? I like to plan in advance.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Got to admit though, I would see these women sauntering around the White House than hearing about how Bill comes and goes through secret entrances. He doesn't actually live with Hillary does he?


----------



## NYC Composer

So for you, governance is about hot babes. You and Bill Clinton and the Trumpster should hang.


----------



## Soundhound

Hot babes. Fox News. Right wingers didn't get laid in high school, and we're all paying for it. Maybe we should encourage high school girls to be merciful to at least one religious fanatic, Reaganite, Milton Friedman fan before they leave for college? Think of the wars we could avoid, nincompoop economic theories we'd be rid of. Just trying to help.


----------



## chimuelo

Totally agree.
Having trim kept Bill from snapping.
OTOH Kaine would be dangerous if he got in there.
Hes loyal to the bone, Cub Scout, Neckties and tbe works.
But judgement should be a concern.
Yuze guys ever see his wife?
Unless she is worth billions that is bad judgement.
She performed in a musical duo sisters called the Lee's.
Home and Ug were thier first names.

She could scare a hungry bulldog off the back of a meat truck.


----------



## Soundhound

What was I saying about right wingers? Oh yeah...


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah but I turned down trim in high school.
A true strategist goes for the hottest babe, then ignores, wont even look at other babes as that makes them feverish.
When you get tired of the hottie, you take your pick.
I really excelled playing in popular groups too.
You tell your various trims that you cant come to this club as thats so and so's hang.
Eventually they cant take the pressure and show up looking for the best looking chick, and asking dumb questions acting crazy and possesive.
Now they want to know why the synth player makes hot babes go nutty.
This process repeats itself until you have a revolving harem of fine trim.

Vegas was heaven in the 80s.
I must have banged 40 waittail cocktresses the first year alone.


----------



## chimuelo

Sorry, freudian slip above.
I meant cocktail waitresses.


----------



## NYC Composer

Remind me to trade my wife in. It's been 32 years, she's not as hot as when I started dating her in '76. I'll give her a few grand and a truck.


----------



## ctsai89

Don't hate me but... Trump 2016!!


----------



## JonFairhurst

Foreign Policy magazine had never endorsed a presidential candidate. Until now.

The list of Trump's disqualifications are staggering. It's hard to imagine anybody short of a comic book villain being more unsuited for the job.

The last sentence pushes the knife in deep.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/09...y-clinton-for-president-of-the-united-states/

One could argue that FP Mag is all about globalism, empire, and so on. But re-read the article. They aren't endorsing on policy. They're endorsing on qualifications. You know that there have to be some arch conservatives at FP who really hate to have published this article, yet support it.

Wow.


----------



## JonFairhurst

A tweet from Republican, T. Greg Doucette, on Donald Trump:

_A clusterf*ck. 
In a dumpster fire. 
On the deck of the Titanic. 
Headlined by Nickelback. 
At Waterloo. 
Covered by CNN._

I especially love the Nickelback line.


----------



## NYC Composer

Nickelback gets no love, but they made a fuck-ton of money. My brother worked for their record co.


----------



## NYC Composer

ctsai89 said:


> Don't hate me but... Trump 2016!!


I don't hate the playa, I hate the game.

Still, do elaborate on your position.


----------



## chimuelo

We all eventually mature boss.
Watching your wife give birth changes a man for good.
Unless youre a Bill Clinton or Trump type of guy.

Actually HRC should share her grief about Bills immaturity in debate 3.
Every housewife, divorcee and single mother will relate, makes her look more typically American.
She chooses to continue with this false imaging shes been trained to do her whole life.
Just break down, it might make this vile race worthwhile.


----------



## chimuelo

I want the phone calls from Bill to Trump that NSA guys are holding in that big 50 billion Terrabyte facility in Utah.


----------



## Soundhound

I love Robert De Niro.


----------



## chimuelo

Sanders was disgusted reading how Super Delegate/CNN "contributor"/DNC Vice Chair was forwarding emails and contacting fundraisers in support of HRC. How can he even campaign for the DNC?
At least Warren is stopping so she can go after Hillarys Wells Fargo buddies, well until Warren Buffet sends new instructions to the Oval Office.

I thought I'd learn more about the investors that have been running the country for the last 7 years to better understand what needs to be totally disassembled in 2016-2020.
Ive read hundreds of pages and it sickens me.

CEO of Motion Pictures Group and foreigner/owner of Una Vision actively involved in the day to day "organizing" at the DNC.
I can only imagine what goes on at the GOP...?
The way they act so openly and totally unaware they are being hacked as raising money superceeds security.

Im sure all of this is legal but it disgusts me to see the total disregard of voters outside of thier sphere of cash and power.

I dont even want to vote I am so disgusted with these lying cheating cowardly rat bastards that have the privilige to run such a capable form of government and take thier positions for granted.


----------



## chimuelo

Oh Di Niro does the right thing.
Say what you really think.
Not this slthering lawery safe space talk.
Hillary was actually being honest when she said deplorable, but unreedemable is what someone else told her to say so it didnt work.
Id like her more if in debate 3 she would say oh fuck you Donald.

Perhaps Motion Picture CEO begged Di Niro to do this as a dry run.
Why let Trunp have all the fun?


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Politicians no longer represent what they are supposed to represent. It is fascinating how little has changed from somewhat 2000 years ago to date. Read Cicero!

Such a extremely prudish country as the US, sexed up at the same time, of course get's a hissy fit about that locker room talk and all of the sudden the whole country is feminist. 

Well, as buddhists say, for every problem there is a solution, I think this should be distributed to every household in the US, free of charge.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> So for you, governance is about hot babes. You and Bill Clinton and the Trumpster should hang.



Hell yes! We've never really had any hot babes. We had Maggie and now we've got Theresa. These, under any circumstances are not hot babes.
So having hot babes in the White House is a definite vote winner.

Hillary isn't really a hot babe is she.


----------



## Baron Greuner

JonFairhurst said:


> A tweet from Republican, T. Greg Doucette, on Donald Trump:
> 
> _A clusterf*ck.
> In a dumpster fire.
> On the deck of the Titanic.
> Headlined by Nickelback.
> At Waterloo.
> Covered by CNN._
> 
> I especially love the Nickelback line.



Waterloo was only a clusterfuck if you were French.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yeah if Hillary said go fcuk yourself Don at the last debate then that would raise the bar considerably.

Acting like she's the Popes next deity doesn't really cut for me.


----------



## chimuelo

After seeing the incompetence and over confident attitude of these seemingly unaware elites I understand why HRC wanted a private server.

To hear them speak of national security makes me cringe.
Snowden gave hackers the keys.
This is no coincidence.

Hurricane Prevention expert Al Gore is back.
The more I see of these suck asses the harder it is for me to pull the HRC handle.
Deep down I know it's the right thing to do but it's getting harder every day.
Especially since my place to vote is 10 miles away and is a Tiny historical Chapel.
If I get an electrical shock when I pull the handle I will have proof there is a God.


----------



## Soundhound

And if a hand reaches out and grabs you buy the pussy you'll know who to vote for.


----------



## chimuelo

If a hand grabs my balls it has roughly 15 seconds to prove it's capable of satisfying my weathered battle worthy cock.

Having said that, sex is overrated once you get a talented trigger point therapist with acupressure skills.

I'm persuadable using these mentioned tactics.
Promises of extra food, weed and free stuff isn't instantly gratifying.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hillary wins the election and in Bernie's voice I'm shouting....

I want out! I want out!

Someone for God sake resurrect Gore Vidal.


A tiny historical chapel? You're lucky Jimmy. I get the town Bowling Green.


----------



## chimuelo

In the middle of nowhere, nothing but rolling green farmland and Trees, kind of nice actually after sucking Nevada dust for decades.

The machines are old, like HRC and DJT.

When you pull for wealthy white Liberals or HRC a hand comes out and digs into your pocket.
When you vote for Trump a hand assaults your lower regions.

Nice


----------



## NYC Composer

The Bannon/Trump media empire should fill in nicely for the kinder, gentler Fox. 

Finally, an outlet to move those steaks and ties!


----------



## chimuelo

I howled when Trump held the press conference where he had Steaks & Champagne rolled out like a QVC show.
I miss that Trump.
Never saw a comedy show used to destroy GOP candidates.

We're way past birthday parties now.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

The level of the posts in this thread has dropped to an excruciatingly ignorant and idiotic point.

And I'm not talking about Larry or Soundhound.

I have one comment: this is fucking serious. We are not amused.


----------



## Soundhound

It's Doug. I've decided to come clean. The more times I watch Network, the more amazing it is how he saw all this so long ago. News as entertainment is poison for a democracy. It's allowed Fox News to dumb down 40 million people to the point that they are going to vote for Donald Trump. People who otherwise would be completely ignorant about what's going on in the world are instead absolutely sure that what Bill O'Reilly et al say is going on, really is the truth. It's how fascism takes root. We're this close. Or we were, I think we dodged the bullet. But we might not be so lucky next time.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Doug, I found this very depressing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/o...compete-against-roger-ailes-and-fox-news.html


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Christopher Hayes tweet I just saw:

Clinton giving a wonky speech on climate change while hecklers scream "Bill Clinton is a rapist!!!!" is the election in a nutshell.


----------



## chimuelo

Chistopher Hayes is a girly man.

And those were Liberal plants to try and bring some excitement to the 100+ crowd of laid off SEIU workers who get strike pay and a bus ride. 

AlGoreZeerah, monster of the deep, awakened by climate change to kill Oil and Coal users, giving a speech on a beach that was underwater in his movie about the end of times.
Classic Bilderberg Goo.......

Nick, you ever been to a telepromted Libetal gathering of wealthy whites?
Secret service screens everyone, you need an ID to enter, well not when voting, but this is a scripted event.
Read the DNC emails, I know it would be painful, but they script and rig a basic interview.
Its totally staged.

I want proof of anything said by a lying Liberal.
Parroted tweets and copy paste no longer work.

Its a brave new world.
I want names of these evil deplorables....


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Nick, you ever been to a telepromted Libetal gathering of wealthy whites?
> Secret service screens everyone, you need an ID to enter, well not when voting,



Funny!


----------



## Soundhound

That's some idiotic Sean Hannity crap, even for you Jimbo.



chimuelo said:


> AlGoreZeerah, monster of the deep, awakened by climate change to kill Oil and Coal users


----------



## chimuelo

Sorry, I do not believe not a single word uttered from the lips of wealthy lying fake Liberals.
Of course I will vote for them only because there is no other choice.

But I sure as hell don't have to goose step along with their vision of a complex border less world where only they burn fossil fuels in their Lear Jets as they look down upon the commoners.

What's in your safe..?


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> Sorry, I do not believe not a single word uttered from the lips of wealthy lying fake Liberals.


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## JonFairhurst

If you _"believe not a single word uttered from the lips of wealthy lying fake Liberals.", it's your choice. 
_
Here are some words from a _tell-it-like-it-is_ Governor. Today, Maine Gov. Paul LePage said, "we need a Donald Trump to show some *authoritarian* power in our country"

http://www.nbcnews.com/card/maine-g...mp-show-authoritarian-power-n664336?cid=sm_tw

I vote against wolves.


----------



## chimuelo

I would too, they hunt Sheep...


----------



## NYC Composer

Nick, unless he's turned around, Jimmy is voting for Clinton even THOUGH he hates what he sees as liberal boondoggling. That says a lot to me about patriotism and love for country. That still true, Chimmy?

I roll my eyes at a lot of the straight Breitbart crap, but I listen, and there have been some real hijinks by the DNC this year. I'm proud not to be a member since 2000. What a clusterfuck.

If the Republican party had run a Mitt Romney this year, I believe he would have won in a walk. That they didn't shows the total dissolution of the GOP.
That the DNC virtually stole the nomination from Bernie shows a lot about them.

I ignore most of Jimmy's Breitbart stylings and the intentional crude sexual stuff because it's all just bait, but we don't disagree on everything. I hope this election is in the bag, because I'm already starting to think about 2020. I'll be volunteering for somebody if or when a movement coalesces. This thing has broken wide open, and a movement will be necessary to re-defeat Trump or the candidate he stands behind. The end of a Presidential cycle is just the start of another.


----------



## NYC Composer

....and Paul lePage is the bottom of the barrel.


----------



## patrick76

Have you guys seen this one?


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Yeah if Hillary said go fcuk yourself Don at the last debate then that would raise the bar considerably.
> 
> Acting like she's the Popes next deity doesn't really cut for me.


...then you probably shouldn't vote for her, Adrian :::he said, gently, Trans-Atlantically:::


----------



## kavinsky

"we came, we saw, he died HAHAHAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!" is going to be your president, calm down. 
More wars, more dumbing down the people, essentially more shit for the entire world.

Politicians are absolutely disgusting, do any of you guys actually believe the crap that's coming off their mouths?
This is just beyond rediculous.
dishonesty, lies, deception, everything about this screams "fake" at me.
This election is truly exceptional.


----------



## NYC Composer

Kavinsky, what do you propose to make things better?


----------



## Soundhound

Equating Clinton and Trump (not that I'm a Clinton fan) is how we'll eventually wind up with a fascist like Trump as president.


----------



## chimuelo

SHound..
Didn't you like my AlGorezeerah Monster story....


----------



## Soundhound

Of course I did! You know I read you like Bukowski, Pynchon and the other post-psychedelic masters. But contributing to the know nothing, head in the sand culture of people who think climate change is a hoax makes the world a worse place. North Carolina is under water. Thank you Republicans! We're going to avoid President Trump, but the ignorant right will still have the House and could rebound big time in four years. The shitstorm of the American Taliban ain't over by a long shot.

If Al Gore had been elected president we wouldn't have gone into Iraq. I bet 9/11 wouldn't have happened because Gore does his homework and the August briefing memo would have been paid attention to. And who knows, maybe we would have gotten to work on a green economy 16 years ago and not fallen so far behind the rest of the world to look like a third would country in comparison.





chimuelo said:


> SHound..
> Didn't you like my AlGorezeerah Monster story....


----------



## chimuelo

OK, maybe hearing DJT & HRC singing a duet from the Patrick Swayze movie....


----------



## NYC Composer

Very good point, hound-say what you will, HRC DOES HER HOMEWORK, and DJT is dropping his pencil trying to look up skirts.


----------



## chimuelo

We did great though while Bill was stuffing Cigars up womens skirts, and we gave "Conservatives" a surplus.
But we saw how they aren't really Conservative with money.

The President can only be a figurehead and save wealthy investors with executive orders and smuggle in poverty as if we dont have enough Liberals to contend with.

I miss Patrick Swayze....


----------



## chimuelo

And brotha man Hound I know more about climate change than most.
I know its real, Ive studied Ice Cores and read Archeolgy updates several times a day.
Ancient Origins is fascinating and I truly understand the need for clean energy.
But Globalist Liberal Alarmism is not spending or investing in preparing for climate change, but rather trying to become a green energy producer.

Obama is the only elite I know who declared a Marine Sanctuary in International Waters. I appluad him as that and preparing with infrastructure is positive.

But putting massive barely useful windmills in migratory paths is sheer stupidity.
I cant possibly fathom a "Scientist" with a global warming degree lacking common knowledge any true conservationalist learns in Nature 101....

Build levees and re channel flood water.
Then I might start to consider Global Warming profiteers unsophisticated points of view.

Yachts, Lear Jets and massive Liberal mansion dwellers trying to shame me, a guy who builds low watt PCs for a hobby. They can bite me.

Liberal billionaires have oil and coal portfolios.
They have pensions fattened up by guns and ammo sales, which spike after every promising speech.

Why would I want to use them as a recefence point, much less some role model?


----------



## NYC Composer

Bringing down the level of discourse again, Jimmy?


----------



## chimuelo

Sorry, I get a trifle excited about elites wanting to limit my access to resources while they kill birds, leave expired Jet fuel plumes and kill marine life with massive fossil fuel yachts.


----------



## NYC Composer

What's your position on fuckers who want to rip fossil fuels out of the ground and massively despoil the earth with no consequences or oversight? With fuckers who want to let waste run out of their chemical plants unchecked? 'Cause, by and large those aren't liberals and neither are their victims.

My point, as always, is that while pretending to think both teams are odious, what keeps ringing in my ears is "liberalsliberalsliberalsliberals."


----------



## chimuelo

Well if you take thier profits instead of incentivizing risk with small OSHA Style penalties theyll clean up thier act.
The biggest leap in air quality standards with results prooving its benefits was George Bush, Sr.
Sulphur Dioxide was prooven lethal, he acted immediately and Acid Rain barely is mentioned anymore.

Damn big oil cowboy....


----------



## chimuelo

But wherever Liberals go they leave a trail of destruction, poverty and human carnage.

Africa, the Middle East, Chicago, Baltimore, St.Louis.....

I like Conservative neighborhoods.
Last time somebody was shot here was12 years ago, and everybody owns a gun...
Amazing.
Yeah the gal was being abused by her husband, she whacked his ass then watched him die while calling 911.

Like to see Trump grab her snatch.....


See, I dissed a Conservative.....


----------



## Soundhound

The problem with bashing liberals is, liberalism is a great idea. If you mean to say fake liberals, say fake liberals. Otherwise Ronald Reagan has you by the... nether regions.


----------



## NYC Composer

Did they give her the death penalty?


----------



## chimuelo

Negative, 15 years, served 10 iirc.
Man 2 temporary insanity.

And yuze guys know I support liberal and conservative policy.

Anti public union, pro tradesmen union, pro right to work as a pathway to higher bid union contracts.
Old school union democrat whose party left him to get wealthy.....

Still stand for everything I stood for years ago.
These politicians have made public service a career.
Ive watched the Reid Clinton Pelosi McConnell shit longer than should be allowed...


----------



## Soundhound

Right on. Do me a favor and say fake liberal then? My blood pressure medication is running low.




chimuelo said:


> Negative, 15 years, served 10 iirc.
> Man 2 temporary insanity.
> 
> And yuze guys know I support liberal and conservative policy.
> 
> Anti public union, pro tradesmen union, pro right to work as a pathway to higher bid union contracts.
> Old school union democrat whose party left him to get wealthy.....
> 
> Still stand for everything I stood for years ago.
> These politicians have made public service a career.
> Ive watched the Reid Clinton Pelosi McConnell shit longer than should be allowed...


----------



## chimuelo

I supported real Liberals like Bernie Sanders before most folks here ever heard his name.
He stands for all of us, his record proves it.
Tulsi Gabbard will carry the torch.

Read DNC emails about the way she was forced out.
This young American served her nation while fake Liberals sold it.

I have her back anytime I am asked.
My meager donations aren't much but I long for an honest system.

I watch her polls and pray Soros doesn't corrupt another lying liberal lawyer over a soldier/public servant.


----------



## Soundhound

Dude I'm from NY, I've been a Bernie fan a long time. After decades of regressive politics I never thought we'd see the day when a socialist could run for president. It's a great that it happened, but there are so many miles to go.

If you're keeping the faith, then liberalism and progressivism are part of what we're fighting for. If you think all the dems in power are corrupt and might as well be republicans (to me Clinton was a centrist republican once Gingrich and his nazis had their temper tantrum and published their fascistic Contract ON America and shut down the government for no reason) then call a spade a spade. If there's irony in saying liberal as a dirty word, be clear about it! If you think Pelosi and Gore and Schumer are full of shit then call them fake liberals. Otherwise you're fueling the right wing's game. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are some good people working in the democratic party, Tulsi isn't alone in this!


----------



## chimuelo

Dude it's the leadership and the fundraisers w/ lobbyists that sell/write the laws.
Both parties have young members becoming fall guys for Pelosi Reid McConnell, etc.
They threaten to not fund their campaigns and even if you play along you can be replaced at anytime.

Tulsi survives because she can promote her strength by not taking DNC Investors money.

We're going to see why Haitians hate the Clinton's real soon.

The recent Hurricane hit nation needs 2 billion for recovery and already are saying Clinton's (Bills friends mostly) used thier tragedy to fundraise and got shorted billions.

This is what gives good charitable Americans a bad name.
Fake Liberalism bro.
And if you question them you are shamed as a racist or hate children, etc.
Sweet vengeance as calls about racism are being used.

We'll see what comes of it, and most likely will be quelled by another corrupted Federal Agency.


----------



## NYC Composer

...or maybe the funds got there and were re-directed by people on the ground. Hmmm.
Did you ever ask yourself if charitable foundations pay bribes? And if so, how does that work on a balance sheet?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Christopher Hayes tweet I just saw:
> 
> Clinton giving a wonky speech on climate change while hecklers scream "Bill Clinton is a rapist!!!!" is the election in a nutshell.



In _Bernie's_ voice.

Chessus H! Billy raped Hilly?!?

I'm so far behind on all of diss!


----------



## NYC Composer

Read down to what a woman said to Pence-this is the sort of sedition Trump is ginning up, because I don't think she's referring to peaceful protest:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/11/late...nleashes-aggressive-attacks-on-own-party.html


----------



## Soundhound

Facts Jimmy, facts. If you know something, spill the beans. Or as Larry surmises, is the world more complicated than that?

To the point. Yay! Fake Liberalism has a name, when you use it, you're not denigrating what you say you support.



chimuelo said:


> We're going to see why Haitians hate the Clinton's real soon.


----------



## chimuelo

Well when I hear that nonsense it bothers me but this type of anger was brought on by rewards and promotions given to loyal lying Liberals taking the 5th and missing emails going back as far as Sheila Jackson at the EPA.
That story was followed by Lois and her IMF Lawyer who got the French guy off the hook for rape.
Then that smug little Koskanin, and on and on.
Cant fire them, theyre Union, they dont even get in trouble for not responding to subpeonas.

Liberals taking the 5th, evidence destroyed by lawyers with hammers on the Foundations payroll.
Im surprised we havent seen violence just for what we learned from Comeys investigations.

I have faith that it wont get violent, maybe a few random acts, but you cant blame Americans for being angry at the in your face corruption and lies they have seen since 2014.

Once Trump implodes I think this all turn into a 2020 uprising, not revolution.

On Haiti I want to see the evidence too.
So far its politicians trying to save thier skin over there and what appears to be lots of angry blacks who were promised money for thier time and work that never got paid.
Maybe theyre the crooks, we'll see.
But in all honesty Ive seen all I want to see.
I just want these types from both sides to melt away.

The usual you cant proove this and that shouldnt even be considered, the appearance of impropriety usually causes lawyers and judges to recuse themselves.
With these people its always you cant proove it.

Kind of hard when evidence turns up missing over and over.

I always find solace in knowing the richest people go to Washington to help us poor dummies out since were too stupid to understand their complex border less vision of the Universe.


----------



## Soundhound

I get it I get it I get it! The point is to distinguish between the people you feel are corrupt from liberals genuinely working for progress. Right wing media turned liberal into a dirty word for a long time, so when you don't make that distinction, you're feeding the moronic inferno (apologies to Martin Amis) full of Limbaugh's ditto heads.


----------



## chimuelo

I refuse to read anymore of fake Liberals talking about what uneducated, ignorant or uninformed Americans are.
Do we really have to chose between a whacked out angry psychotic or people that believe I am stupid, or Catholic, Jewish or Protestant?
Do they think the same about us if we go and fight our real enemies as they view the battle from the safety we provide?

I get way too angry reading these fake Liberals talking amongst themselves.
Lying elitist pieces of shit. These people divide us against each other for thier personal gain.

Thank God my new digital mixer has a 328 page manual.

If I still even vote I will do it with shame and disgust.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> I have faith that it wont get violent, maybe a few random acts, but you cant blame Americans for being angry at the in your face corruption and lies they have seen since 2014.



I hope your faith is justified. I'm all for peaceful protest and I understand anger, but once somebody ends up with a "Second amendment solution", things are not good.

Wait- you were in the military?


----------



## Baron Greuner

_Bernie says
_
Protestants! Evun in America we have still have deese cult weligions!


----------



## chimuelo

I have my local news interupted for a Trump rally in Florida.
Hes off the hook.
The usual loud mouth crap over the back drop of hispanics and blacks clapping at gun point and hot looking chicks....

This guy is starting to scare me until I remind myself this was the plan along...

Praise The Lord..


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Negative, 15 years, served 10 iirc.
> Man 2 temporary insanity.


So she only had to serve 10 years and become a felon for killing her abuser.
If she was actually abused, shouldn't she gave gotten a medal?


----------



## chimuelo

I believe she is feared and loved.
I told the realtor I researched crime stats and couldnt find much except DUIs fathers abducting thier children, etc.
He and his wife/partner told me the story and almost made it a fable of sorts.

This is not a very Liberal area. They give out guns as attendence prizes in Church.
Alcohol was illegal until 3 years ago.
Half of the women at the weekly produce markets wear Bonnets....

In other words I travel to STL Chitown Nashville or Little Rock to get my Dog walked.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Policy matters.

Let's say you want to reduce the deficit. Which tax plan would best accomplish that?







http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/10/its-policy-that-matters/503858/


----------



## chimuelo

Deficits are good...
Why change that?

The US Economy has expamded 6 times all while having large deficits?

Economics was actually retaught after figuring that out.

Probably a good thing elites didnt declare scientists were right, theres no more discussion....


----------



## MA-Simon

Fantastic writeup by one of my favourite Authors: David Wong.
Well at last for me as an outsiders, this has helped me understand the situation a lot better then anything else.

"*How Half Of America Lost Its F**king Mind*"
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/
(the site is a bit messy, its actually two pages, navigation at the bottom)


----------



## JonFairhurst

Yeah, short term deficits, like during WWII and economic contractions are good. Long term deficits are bad as they mean that more and more of our tax dollars go to pay bankers for interest.

Personally, I want much higher taxes on the wealthy and on inherited wealth. The system is way out of balance right now. We have economic feudalism. Without more churn in the system, the smart, energetic, small entrepreneur doesn't break through and the stupid, lazy wealthy person watches their money grow and grow. To stay rich, one should have to actually earn it.

Hey, if the wealthy pay more, we keep spending/GDP the same, and (if you wish) we keep the deficits the same, then the middle class can get a tax break. Yay! Or maybe spending goes up, more people get government jobs, and those people buy stuff.

Cause let's face it, a richer billionaire doesn't lead to one more drink being sold. Put a little more money into the pockets of the the average Joe (and Jill) and the tip jar grows.

Hillary's tax plan looks pretty good to me. Trump's plan just lets him grab more, um, money for doing absolutely nothing for anybody.


----------



## Soundhound

Fake liberals. Not liberals, fake liberals. Yay!



chimuelo said:


> I refuse to read anymore of fake Liberals talking about what uneducated, ignorant or uninformed Americans are.
> Do we really have to chose between a whacked out angry psychotic or people that believe I am stupid, or Catholic, Jewish or Protestant?
> Do they think the same about us if we go and fight our real enemies as they view the battle from the safety we provide?
> 
> I get way too angry reading these fake Liberals talking amongst themselves.
> Lying elitist pieces of shit. These people divide us against each other for thier personal gain.
> 
> Thank God my new digital mixer has a 328 page manual.
> 
> If I still even vote I will do it with shame and disgust.


----------



## Baron Greuner

_Bernie says_

Trickle down economics is duh brain child of a klutz.


----------



## NYC Composer

We need WPA II. Create decent paying jobs, fix our crumbling infrastructure, increase the velocity of money. We need the best and the brightest in government and private enterprise to partner, and we need a well paid, hard to corrupt group of zealots to do financial oversight.


----------



## Hannes_F

MA-Simon said:


> Fantastic writeup by one of my favourite Authors: David Wong.
> Well at last for me as an outsiders, this has helped me understand the situation a lot better then anything else.
> 
> "*How Half Of America Lost Its F**king Mind*"
> http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/
> (the site is a bit messy, its actually two pages, navigation at the bottom)


I have to admit I was kind of a head-shaking bystander up to now but that explains a lot, thank you.


----------



## Soundhound

That's what I thought was going to happen when Obama got in. High speed rail, gigantic infrastructure works. No way to tell what would have happened if the Amurican Taliban hadn't fought him at every turn. Maybe nothing. Clinton's talking the talk, if the dems take the house back thanks to Hitler Junior, I wanna see new bridges and high speed rail and real green energy. Pave Arizona, cover it in solar panels, get the fuck out of the middle east for good.



NYC Composer said:


> We need WPA II. Create decent paying jobs, fix our crumbling infrastructure, increase the velocity of money. We need the best and the brightest in government and private enterprise to partner, and we need a well paid, hard to corrupt group of zealots to do financial oversight.


----------



## Baron Greuner

_Bernie says
_
I wuz a head shaker too but that was more to do with age.

I liked that film Taxi Driver. It really put New York on the map.


----------



## chimuelo

I want Russia, China, Iran and N.Korea to strike American cities with ICBMs paid for by tax payers, then me and rural racists can spend 30 years rebuilding America.

Recorded messages will eminate from behind the statue of the God George Washington.
We will worship and obey.


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## NYC Composer

I grew up in deep upstate NY. Have your fun Jimmy, but the idea that there's no rural racism is preposterous.


----------



## chimuelo

Preposterous is how an "author" using Federal graphs, charts and statistics claims that he can use less than 1/3 of Americans as his basis to generalize yet another boring Liberal racism theory.

In a ratings driven media I totally get the need for relevance.
But when 220,000,000 Americans don't vote, the idea of these areas using colors (racist and divisive in itself) are chock full of Liberals or Conservatives, etc. 
These dumb fucks don't even know how many illegal immigrants are here or where they are.

Notice the red areas of racists in the San Joaquin valley area.
That's where my racist Mexican family and ancestors are from.
You have look long and hard to find white racists there, trust me. 

I can't stand false narratives being hailed as some great truth backed by federal graphs and charts from bureaucrats who are so stupid they can't even secure their emails.

I leave 18 miles from a black town, Black farmers, Black schools, and Hispanics and whites are minorities.
No drug gangs, no violence, and probably no racism though I assume.

Played in Robertsville, MO. last month. All black community, the city and its entire county is black.
Perhaps the "author" visit sometime when he isn't sucking cock for ratings.

My black guitarist is from STL. He didn't even believe me when I told him the history. And he's only 50 miles away.

People should learn more before flapping their gums, especially when the tiresome Liberal racist bull shit gets used since its trendy now thanks to Soros Sharpton Holder and Obama.


----------



## chimuelo

On a happier note Tulsi just got 25 more to win again.
I get thanked by some virtual person for funding her so she can get rid of guys like Stumpf (Warren Buffet Puppet) and have millions like me support her race free positive campaign.

Oh...almost forgot.....she's religious. ...a biggie no no with fake Liberals....it doesn't cloud her TRUE PROGRESSIVE movement.

To think she has to get smacked around by Pelosi and Clinton bothers me. But 2020 her and those like her will get these old white and black fossils back to thier mansions yachts and vineyards.....


----------



## JonFairhurst

Sorry Jimmy, you can't prove a negative.

When I was a kid, the extended family spent a week at a beach house. My 2nd cousin (by marriage, thank you) was an LAPD motorcycle cop. Here we are with little kids, moms and dads, and grannies, and he's telling us that all n*****s should be shot. Yeah, he wasn't a racist. And I'm sure that he never ever had conversations like that with the nice men in the force.

When a black family moved into our So Cal neighborhood, one of the neighbors went door to get people to sign a petition for them to be kicked out. I'm sure that he really liked them. He was just shedding a tear for property values.

A black friend of mind didn't have a car. He walked and jogged. All the cops knew him as he was often "invited" to the station. One night a TV was stolen. My friend was arrested. He was like, "You know I don't have a car. How would I steal I TV." They guessed that he had stashed in in the bushes. I guess that was all the evidence they needed.

Racism exists.


----------



## NYC Composer

I grew up in deep upstate NY. Have your fun Jimmy, but the idea that there's no rural racism is preposterous.

See, if actually wanted to respond reasonably, you could have said "yeah, well there's plenty of urban racism too", then I would have agreed with you and recounted stories of how my black co-workers at the studio can't get cabs unless they're in business suits or with white folk, and that they get rousted when in predominantly black neighborhoods. Of course, I was fairly sure you'd get up on the pulpit instead, which indeed you did, instead of agreeing with the truth-that sure, rural racism is real. It's that kind of reflexive counter-rhetoric that takes us nowhere.


----------



## chimuelo

Never said there wasn't but an entire map of racism in the USA?
Bull shit.

Someday you should travel to countries where real racism exists, then you'll be glad to return home where a fraction of a fraction of racism exists.

This is the main reason I cringe when voting for a Liberal is due to them using race, and division for self promotion.

The majority of people in rural America don't live in trailers, they don't have Hitler posters, swastikas or KKK hoodies.
They live where they have control over their own lives and those that serve, answer to the community instead of a foreign billionaire.

My racist rural neighbor is a Venezuelan with his own Helicopter pad and 300 foot Concrete driveway.
He's a catholic too. OMG those dangerous people of faith....

Maybe yuze guys think fearing blacks is racism..?
When you see gangs of violent blacks beating a white man after dragging him from his car, or an elderly WW2 vet beat to death trying to fill his tank, you see a black person and you immediately remember the violence media shows every night and in every paper.

Blacks commit more violent crimes than any other race, mostly from being stuck in a failed system some rich white men 1,000s of miles away created for them and actually prosper from too.

To fear a black man in a hoodie is natural, to call him the n word or take action is discrimination.
That's the reality.

The word fear and prejudice are a reality, you can call that racism, that is your choice.

Im in a major rural area, and these are the most efficient, kindest, good hearted people I've ever met.
I will miss them next year when I return to a real progressive state instead of a fake jive ass Liberal community where people fear speaking so badly, they invent lengthy sentences of gibberish trying to emulate the rich whites they worship.

Fear not, one of the inventors of Super Max Prisons, The Crime Bill, rounding up black super predators will be serving us poor helpless Americans.
Ain't fake Liberalism grand....


----------



## NYC Composer

Explain birtherism to me from that perspective, Jim.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump believed Obama was born in Indonesia, he failed, he was wrong, doubt he regretted it.
Where is the leap from disliking someone, thinking they are pro Muslim, and how does that becomes racism, I would love a definition. 
This doesn't mean Trump is not a bigot and racist, as he seems quite comfortable with his African Americans, and his Latinos (even though it was a female/Latina)...the man is ignorant. Surrounded by worshipers and yes men.

And secondly why is it so important to Liberals that President Obama be Black..?
He's mixed race, black and white, is the black part better or something?
His white racist grandparents raised him in white privileged schools...

Talk about dishonesty.

I've supported Obama on damn near everything.
Then as things got worse I lost faith in the global border less world jive.
Watch, some here will call me a racist as I oppose their dishonesty with themselves....

Chimuelo is a brown skinned white racist....

This entire disgusting election is starting to wear me out.
When I see the fake outrage and fake this and fake that I feel sorry for my son.
I brought him up respecting adults, and others, never even knew what racism was until he heard adults, politicians mostly on TV...

This is mainly why millennials are smarter than us, they don't watch TV, they're not hypnotized by the 24/7 indoctrination.


----------



## NYC Composer

No Jim, not Trump-that's a whole 'nother discussion. Tell me why his "base" bought into birtherism so heartily. Some of his base are the salt of earth, wonderful non-racist rural people you champion. I've met many of them, and while there's no generalization from me, yes, some of them are racist and were deeply unhappy with a mixed race President.

Btw, having now worked for 9 years straight in rap/metal studios 6 nights a week til 5 am, living on 110th Street Manhattan and walking Central Park every day near Malcolm X Blvd, Frederick Douglass Blvd and Adam Clayton Powell Blvd, I guess if I was afraid of a black guy in a hoodie I would have died of fright by now. Now, a group of 4 or 5 punks of any color wearing hoodies and doing the thug stroll certainly make my hackles prick up, I'm not stupid, but c'mon.


----------



## chimuelo

Yuze guys and your new dictionary of isms ists and phobe family members.
Is that word even in the dictionary yet, or just more drivel to extend sentances into paragraphs for the appearance of being all educated and shit.

We have baggers in the stores where I live.

What are they called in namby pamby land, agricultural product organizers or some silly nonsense?


----------



## NYC Composer

Nice non-answer. I never imply YOU'RE a moron or an ism or a fuggin' sheep for your thoughts. Sometimes you tire me out, and not in a good way.

The answer is-the birther movement was pure racism and Trump's entry into alt right land. Now here we are, and you're dodging and weaving and diverting when you KNOW it's totally true. This rich boy scum saw an opportunity for mining gold from people who couldn't afford it and sold them a cow-now he's milking it for all he's worth.


----------



## chimuelo

Why is birtherism a new form of racism?
Trump has racists who love him.
Do Black Panthers that hate all white people keep me from voting for a Democrat?

These haters are a fraction you seem to multiply into a fantasy from over saturation of messaging.
Not a single friend of mine is a racist, regardless of thier heritage.
I only see this shit on media, looped over and over.
Thier intentions have no effect on me and never will.

I understand the purpose.
This alt rightism is a new breed of evil human.
I hope the Panthets and the Alt righters have a shoot out at the OK Corral.

Someday honest government and honest media will return.
Until that era I refuse to chicken little myself over thousands of worthless humans in a nation of hundreds of millions.

They better come to my parties with lots of friends or they might get to stay longer than they wanted.

Liberals succeeded in absolutely nothing but a trail of destruction and misery from the middle east to the pacific to eastern europe and the usa.

And now its russias fault or the rural racists or some alt right haters wearing sheets.....

Y'all should just admit you backed the wrong horse..


----------



## chimuelo

Larry is this the Alt Right stuff?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/tom...to-burn-our-cities-and-topple-our-government/

Out of respect for most of your opinions I gave it a shot and found this hottie.
Never heard of One America News or Raw.

But somebody broke a stick off up her butt.
Pretty scary shit, but a little hottie.
No wonder those chunky liberal chicks ate getting worried.


----------



## NYC Composer

Y'all should admit you frame every argument in such a way that fits your narrative without regard to facts. If you had gone to a Trump rally, you would have been disgusted by a lot of the shit you heard, and yeah-it would have been RACIST, and SEXIST. You don't wanna call a thing a thing, you want to tell me racial prejudice doesn't exist among honest working Amuricans like yourself, fine. Keep your narrative, just sell it to someone else. I'm too old and well traveled for nonsnese. I don't hate anyone, I don't put rural people in any more of a basket than I put urban people, I get along fine with most people. Steve Bannon and DJT are quite a good team. Let me know how you enjoy the progress of THOSE bastards, and let me know when you think they might be equally as dangerous as your favorite phony lying liberals, 'cause a storm is coming.


----------



## chimuelo

The storm started when professionals flew in to burn down Ferguson.
Its pretty mellow there now.
When HRC wins a few places will have troubles.

But rural racists are smarter than Liberals.
We dont burn our fields or barns.
We do burn the cut trees though on Harvest Bondfire day the 22nd.

New neighbors are welcomed everybody brings food the fire blazes until midnight.

Its what rural racists do......


----------



## NYC Composer

There is no racism. It's an ism. There are no isms. All made up by lying liberal elitists in Washington. By the way, which are you, a "rapist", or one of the "I'm sure some of them are" good people?

Hey, any of your bonfire neighbors still believe Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya? 'course they don't. They never did. Salt of the earth. REAL people.


----------



## chimuelo

Mostly racist whites, racist Mexicans, our new racist Chinese neighbors (my therapist), Racist Vietnamese (classic car collector of cars once driven by white racists), Dr. Ahmadi and his family of muslim racists.....Hugh who speaks with an accent but of doubtful origins and owns the Guns and ammo store, and possibly others I am unaware of.
Our racist catholic Venezuelan neighbor should buzz the festivities and bring his Mormon wife.
Somethings wrong with her though since she isnt a racist.

Last year we howled about the Donald as he was way too much fun beating up conservatives, but talk is nobody really cares enough except we want the same local guys here since theres no crime, schools are nationally rated (not hard to do) and hunting, fishing and farming.
I think racists on the most part are great farmers.

Ill send some pics of rural racists enjoying another above average harvest.
All the extra rain from global warming has its benefits.


----------



## NYC Composer




----------



## chimuelo

Well were a little more sophisticated than that.
My only beef is no left turn lanes and long ass driveways.
1/2 mile round trip to get the mail.
People have thier names on their mailboxes.

My free range rooster just keeps sending me pictures from Henry County.


----------



## chimuelo

My progressive sister n law and my niece hate the election but are helping me to make the HRC selection easier.

1) even Putin's guys couldn't hack her server.

2) she is a better liar than Trump and scares our adversaries

Add some others to help me do the most painful decision I'll make in recent history...


----------



## NYC Composer

Putin ally tells Americans: Vote Trump or risk nuclear war http://www.cnbc.com/id/104016228


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Y'all should admit you frame every argument in such a way that fits your narrative without regard to facts.


Good grief, Larry. There's been much more of that done in this forum by people on the left. A couple of guys here are always doing that, with their only "facts" being that they say so, so it's right.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, in a general sense I s'pose it's true of everyone,Michael-no?

My debate with Jimmy specifically, though, is more direct. If I say, pretty mildly, that rural racism DOES exist and he renders a 1000 word post about lying corrupt liberals, I just don't think it's a helpful debating style. Amusing sometimes, infuriating sometimes, but rarely helpful.

I'm a guy with passionate feelings but in the end I'm sort of Kumbaya. I want to debate issues but come to consensus on the small percentage of things where that's possible. I want to answer the questions asked and get answers to the questions I ask. I'm not a politician. I want to strike a balance between compassion and logic through exploration. I'm not so interested in "winning." I'm equally appalled by "deplorable" and "crooked".

Why is it this country can only come together in crisis? My wife was across the street from both WTC bombings and my son and I are lucky she's alive. I remember the love poured into NYC by Americans of many persuasions. This country was united during WW2. I played multiple Katrina benefits, people of different stripes uniting. Orlando. Oklahoma City. We're a good people in crisis-well, there's a crisis right now, of people yelling across the aisle to an extent that I truly fear will lead to violence. We need to try to find things we agree on rather than celebrate the things that divide us.

One more thing. I've commented on hyperbolic rhetoric from both left and right. Nick and I have gone back and forth about this for a few years and have agreed to disagree. 'hound and I also tend to disagree on this.Can't make anybody change their style, can only express my preferences.


----------



## Baron Greuner

If it's a really close vote you will get violence.

If people in the UK suceed in turning over the BREXIT vote, which as I predicted, is now looking more and more likely, you will get severe violence.

Nobody wants any of that, but it's merely an observation of different chains of events throughout history.

Anyone ignoring a vote or thinks they know better than people that have already made a vote in good faith, should not be surprised if they wind up dead in the street.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Well, in a general sense I s'pose it's true of everyone,Michael-no?



No, it's not true of everyone. Some people actually try to present some sort of evidence to back up their claims. From some people on this forum it's "you're wrong, I'm right because you're a dirty stinking conservative and I'm an enlightened liberal".


----------



## chimuelo

I just found out the wealthy whites at the DNC who referred to Nevada, AZ. as the Taco Belt, share similar opinions in Hillary's border less complex campaign, but we're midevil catholics and needy Latinos....

This is great reading material.

Just imagine if you swapped the word Muslim for Catholic or Latino.
Girly men on Twitter would demand death by hanging.

The Russian guy is almost as scary as Trump.
I have little choice but to vote for rich white racists of the complex borderless ticket.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Michael, I know you're talking to me, and I'm happy to back up why I want the entire Republican party to go fuck itself right now.

Warning: I'm much smarter than anyone else and am always right.


----------



## NYC Composer

In my odd way, I'm amused that my post that promoted peace and understanding was utterly ignored and everyone focused on their own interests.

So, perhaps we are ALL irredeemable. Fuck it. I believe in promoting those ideals. Y'all go ahead and focus on your agendas.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> In my odd way, I'm amused that my post that promoted peace and understanding was utterly ignored and everyone focused on their own interests.
> 
> So, perhaps we are ALL irredeemable. Fuck it. I believe in promoting those ideals. Y'all go ahead and focus on your agendas.


I didn't ignore you, I just know what to say in response to your post promoting unity because a few weeks ago you said that you think America won't be united again and that maybe splitting the country up might be the thing to do.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh. Did you realize that was a statement of deep pain and distress? I'm 62 years old and always bought into the promise of America and the ideal of brotherhood. That's me. Who the heck are you? You don't strike me as someone seeking comity.


----------



## Soundhound

Mind if I pile on? 




Nick Batzdorf said:


> Michael, I know you're talking to me, and I'm happy to back up why I want the entire Republican party to go fuck itself right now.
> 
> Warning: I'm much smarter than anyone else and am always right.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Ethics:
- Compassion 
- Honesty 
- Fairness 
- Responsibility 
- Respect 

Don't let the unethical tempt us to act in kind.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Oh. Did you realize that was a statement of deep pain and distress? I'm 62 years old and always bought into the promise of America and the ideal of brotherhood. That's me. Who the heck are you? You don't strike me as someone seeking comity.


No offense intended Larry. I really didn't know how to respond to that post because I thought you were serious on the earlier one.


----------



## NYC Composer

Of course I was serious, in a despairing way.

I call for people of good will to speak reasonably with each other and reject demagogues who would lead us into a ruinous divisiveness. It starts with me. It starts with you. THIS IS SERIOUS, and I am a serious man.


----------



## passsacaglia

NYC Composer said:


> Putin ally tells Americans: Vote Trump or risk nuclear war http://www.cnbc.com/id/104016228


Heard, and read that too Larry,

Jumpin in again boyz. Got my american buddy (dem) over this weekend for chill and bromance. Voted for mr Bern, but he's like dead scared on what's happening now and what will happen...so do I.
Got this article in my fb inbox by a friend, anyone here who've seen This?! I'm seriously doubting russia for being interested in hacking the dnc etc, that just seems to be silly and an excuse from the leaders, blaming russia etc.
ps. Yeah ofc I agree with some americans that donny has said and done some crazy fkd up things, encouraging fights etc but, he is Very true about many things.
I hate the swedish national democrats, they're ofc different since they have their roots in nazi sub-groups wearing that kind of outfits, burning books, had parties in SS uniforms and stuff, now they look like wall street bankers. They're like KKK.
But, I think Donny is a milder version of that, to be true, and I'm like really shittin my pants thinking of a world if shillary wins, and I think many people having this tunnel vision and won't think outside the box, all those assumptions and facts comin aren't there for nothing, people have really fought their lives having those facts comin out, for a good reason. Imho, read the stuff and believe in some of the truths you/the world, are facing. Be realistic. And yeah, sad but true ofc Iran will be the next Iraq/Libya. 

http://westernsentinel.com/breaking-hillarys-email-hacker-emerged-just-said-end-hillary-democratic-party/ (http://westernsentinel.com/breaking...erged-just-said-end-hillary-democratic-party/)
from anon hq, maybe not the everyday source ppl go for information but...lately Iv been visiting them quite often..
http://www.anonews.co/putin-isis-fundings/ (http://www.anonews.co/putin-isis-fundings/<br />)


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## NYC Composer

Looks like some really reliable sources, Pass.

Meanwhile, Trump's rhetoric continues along a darker and darker apocalyptic path. Conspiracies everywhere. Clintons. Republicans. Sinister forces. The're stealing the election.

I thought we were going to get out clean, but no. Next it's the Illuminati, and then comes the final answer-

The Jews.


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## passsacaglia

Hehe, ok absolutely,not the most reliable ofc. But, we'll just have to wait and see. It wasn't mostly about the reliability but the information they provided.
Ha, maybe someone believes that still. Altho, there are some jewz as CEOs of all those families/big companies hillary supports/backing up. Also, I'm 50% polish and had some relatives gone in that disaster so, I'm def disgusted by the stuff happening then. That's how the swe-democrats are doing, exact the same thing 60 years later. And ppl still believes that. Altho their focus is mostly the immigrants and beggars who're crowding the swedish streets, crime rate is even lower now than before.


----------



## NYC Composer

Pass- I would be interested in a list of what you think Trump has said that is right on target.

Forget the treatment of women for the moment, let me tell you two things he's said that aren't particularly sane:

1. He's suggested that maybe some "Second Amendment people" might shoot Hillary Clinton.

2. He's said that the only way he could lose would be if the election was "stolen" from him, in which case he "doesn't know what will happen", implying there may be violence. This is not how a candidate who loves his country runs for office. This is how a spoiled child reacts when he doesn't get what he wants, a child who is too young to be fully socialized and doesn't really understand or care about anything outside himself.


----------



## passsacaglia

NYC Composer said:


> Pass- I would be interested in a list of what you think Trump has said that is right on target.
> 
> Forget the treatment of women for the moment, let me tell you two things he's said that aren't particularly sane:
> 
> 1. He's suggested that maybe some "Second Amendment people" might shoot Hillary Clinton.
> 
> 2. He's said that the only way he could lose would be if the election was "stolen" from him, in which case he "doesn't know what will happen", implying there may be violence. This is not how a candidate who loves his country runs for office. This is how a spoiled child reacts when he doesn't get what he wants, a child who is too young to be fully socialized and doesn't really understand or care about anything outside himself.



1) That all the mex are resp... nah, jk.

Like I said, there are only a Few things. Extremely few to be honest, very few.
Let me get back during the day (work just started here and had 4 hours of sleep). 
He is, just like Hillary, behaves like they're fighting over this cake, or country and they are like children, both of them.
But I can tell you one thing now, She lies exactly as much as He does. She lies about serious stuff, so does he, but he lies about silly stuff like the mexicans are all the problems and ladidadi everything else you have heard, and she lies about real stuff like a joker, two side of the coin, to wall street she tells she's pro wall street, supporting tpp etc and to the country she wants to be like a saint, which she's not. He doesn't wanna release his tax specs, she doesn't wanna "release" or admit all the mistakes about the deleted emails etc and everything related to war she has and is involved in, that's what scares me. Tbh this forum and help, kindness and friendship Iv gained has like, been one of the most inspiring things and best things could happen this year on the side of all the things with the election, still in my "late youths" and want to do music for the rest of my life...and I'd be happy to avoid a WW3, which I believe Won't happen, if mr D is on the throne, no matter how ugly his language or attitude he has, and I agree with every feeling you have with him, which I hope you believe L. It's not about him, it's her.She is hiding some serious stuff that the american's Should not know because they will be even more angrier than they are with trump. That's why I like ppl like anonymous or the wiki's, ppl who believe the emails and document are fake are the ones still believing 9/11 was a bunch of arabs hi-jacking a plane and not an inside job, with all the evidence that are out it's as easy calculate 1+1=2. This makes even more sense after my friend from this top ivy league university took a course in "conspiracy theories", the course wanted to state that All the conspiracy theories Are False, period. Which country does even has a course like that and stating that? Only the Truman show. I love many things bout 'merica, and I do hate things bout 'mericuh. 

I cannot stop think of...all the stuff happening around me, this greed of money and oil and the middle east. Build your country and try make the best out of it. Like, there are bad things with NAFTA for example and will be with TPP what I feel now. Hate this monopoly with medicines or if you can set the price of medicals how high you want. I really suffer with all the ppl with cancers and serious life threatening diseases. People who get hooked by prescr. medicines, kids get into heroin and get so addicted etc. All the "profits" and money and greed with big pharma, That is more disguisting than behaving like a child. I'm eating anti-inflammatory stuff almost everyday, exercise a lot, don't eat processed food etc, don't wanna end up in that disease. THC which kills cancer cells and save the body cells, ofc big pharma wanna make money out of their chemo. I haven't tried any narcotics and won't but if I see that the natural stuff kills diseases and can help ppl, wtf is going on then?
She's supporting alotta shitty stuff, trying to be a saint and...I really hate that, which irritates me. And Donny irritates me being a silly dumb ass, but that war hawk we got, full of greed, doing anything to be the POUTUS, screw that, Bernie wouldve been such a nice guy for this world. A believer.
Don is a shitty bastard, so is she. both are equal, but he won't go into war or blast the middle east or iran, he has No interest in that whatsoever. He is ego and will be.
<3 Amen.


----------



## NYC Composer

A little disjointed, but I get the idea. You think she's more corrupt and warlike, whereas Donald is just a doofus. 

My unsurprising take is that she actually does her homework and knows what she's talking about, whereas he knows absolutely nothing about government, international relations, the international economy, or really anything else. He is also not in control of his emotions, and reacts in childish ways when provoked. These are very bad traits for any world leader, much less the leader of the world's most powerful nation, and I think the idea that he would be less warlike when he's so easily provoked strikes me as ludicrous.

You really ought to look a bit more deeply into Putin. Poisoning rivals with plutonium and killing journalists isn't very Swedish.


----------



## passsacaglia

About him as a leader, well, truth, I think he will have 10 ppl examining his do's before anything is said or done.
Him having better relations with China and Putin is something makes me more chill, that's all but ofc, not in control of his emotions that's very true. And yes, Putin is also scary just like north korea, they're just...sick.
How he handleded Crim is crazy and why there are russian jets flying over sweden and the baltic sea, that's just what?
But, knowing what she Really stands for, that's even more nastier and scarier, to me. That's the thing.
I hate her for some of her believs, acts, lies etc and the stuff with pharma and interest in the middle east.
I'd love to see how Libya would've looked like without the bombings and stuff, read about them building up the city, reservoirs etc. Think it'd be like a 3rd Dubai somehow. 
But yeah, interested in everything you've said since I don't have That many US friends discussing this with me.The more I know bout him and what people think of him the better.


----------



## NYC Composer

Why would he run things past people who know something when he hasn't for his entire campaign?

In terms of pharma etc as you put it, she's actually been fighting for healthcare for all since the 1990s. That she has taken money from private industry, this is a terrible system we have in America that needs to change, but fundraising takes up about 80% of all politicians time here in America. She's a politician, it's what they do. I think she plays dirty, but that is part of our politics too. I'm not in love with some of the things she's done, but I think she is smart, compassionate and will try to do her best for the country as opposed to DJT who has no interests outside himself.


----------



## passsacaglia

I think he needs a punch in his face and a wakeup call like "Ey! Dude, stop this this, focus!" And get back in the game, and a daddy who teaches him stuff. And yes, less self ego.
Ofc she will be a better worker and do'er, but he might be a do'er too. Nice to hear about that too, no she's not a saint. She has not been consistent in some of the questions like supporting gay marriage etc, changes direction to gain voters and popularity. And yeah, that healthcare thing, really hope it gets better. Imagine America really work and BUILD up the country for real, plant stuff and skip all the processed shit that is in the making. Healthier, greener, happier, profitable, there is good soil, country is YUGE as hell and there are many possibilities making the american dream an international dream. That's my philosophy, there are many good ppl I met there and there is hope. 
What do you think of 2020? Another repeating episode of hacked dnc machines?
Why can't the counting be manually and with papers like in ALL other countries for example? Maybe because the systems can't be manipulated... that'd be so much more fair. And guys like Bernie could really win, like in history. We all know, Bernie would've won, and This would not be happening, the world wouldn't look like it looks like now etc. At some point, I really believe Libya, Iraq etc Would look much better than now if the war of freedom would not happen. 9/11 and all the lives wasted, would not happen. So tragic and even tho I was born in the late 80's, I still love and mourn the World Trade Center towers. Manhattan was So goddamn cool with those. 
Back to the game,
I do not believe there were any machines in the 30's, 40's, 50's etc where there could be change. Also the system is very complex and complicated, elections here: You go to the polls, pick your ballot, choose who you like and Bam! No registration of party/party member, nothing. Only show your ID and there are counters sitting 24/7 counting. 
Now...it's all interest, greed and about power in my opinion. I just hate that. 
The election will be extremely interesting, and I really look forward somehow see all the proofs wiki and anon will release. Makin' my popcorns ready.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

One general question that is worth to be raised is about the US foreign policy of regime change. I wonder a little how very few people, especially in the US, really made an effort reading the Wikileaks Clinton mails!

There is little doubt that Obama was expected (by Israel) to bring down Assad, in order for them to accept the nuclear deal with Iran, and such was State departments strategy. Hence US involvement was not so much about Assad, but Iran and Israel.

So yes, it is US foreign "one-two-punch" policy, with Lybia, and then Syria, that is aimed at "transforming" the middle east. 

It is worth remembering the half a decade lasting history of US "Nation building efforts" in that context, in particular, the results! Hillary, often praised for her knowledge, entirely miscalculated the Russian response to Syria and now is fighting a proxy war with Russia in Syria. The hawkish Bush doctrine and Clinton doctrine appear not too different after all.

Donald Trump? Gimmi a feckin break, this stagemanaged idiot is there for one reason only, to make certain that HRC is the next president.


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## passsacaglia

G.R. Baumann said:


> One general question that is worth to be raised is about the US foreign policy of regime change. I wonder a little how very few people, especially in the US, really made an effort reading the Wikileaks Clinton mails!
> 
> There is little doubt that Obama was expected (by Israel) to bring down Assad, in order for them to accept the nuclear deal with Iran, and such was State departments strategy. Hence US involvement was not so much about Assad, but Iran and Israel.
> 
> So yes, it is US foreign "one-two-punch" policy, with Lybia, and then Syria, that is aimed at "transforming" the middle east.
> 
> It is worth remembering the half a decade lasting history of US "Nation building efforts" in that context, in particular, the results! Hillary, often praised for her knowledge, entirely miscalculated the Russian response to Syria and now is fighting a proxy war with Russia in Syria. The hawkish Bush doctrine and Clinton doctrine appear not too different after all.
> 
> Donald Trump? Gimmi a feckin break, this stagemanaged idiot is there for one reason only, to make certain that HRC is the next president.



1)Yes, where I would like to come. Absolutely true.
2) Hm..could be or could be not. Know they're "friends" and friends. This is also a conspiracy, but I believe it's more to the not true side just due to some of his statements about her and fights about the emails for example and in the debates. But yes, anyone interested should really read the emails, they Are there and they exist. I read like 86 of those thread pages before I jumped in in a day, just to read up on what's been said. No biggie reading those emails.
Cheers G R


----------



## G.R. Baumann

The list of countries where the US wants regime change is known. General Wesley Clark spoke about it in 2007 already


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## passsacaglia

G.R. Baumann said:


> The list of countries where the US wants regime change is known. General Wesley Clark spoke about it in 2007 already



This, could be reality. Also this http://www.rense.com/general83/irwar.htm


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> I call for people of good will to speak reasonably with each other and reject demagogues who would lead us into a ruinous divisiveness.



People of good will????

People of good will go and make the effort to vote. Then when other people of good will go into denial, the first set of people of good will are then told by the second people of good will, that their votes should be null and void, because they, the second people of good will are in denial and are losing too much sleep caused by the first people of good will.

The so called good will leader of Scotland seems to think that the good will leader of England will actually give a fuck about anything she says.

So much for people of good will.


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## Baron Greuner

And all of that above will apply to the good will people of the USA after the election.

When Trump starts talking about the USA holding onto it's sovereignty, which person of good will do you suppose gave that to him?

The bottom line to all of these recent and forthcoming elections in the western world are about one thing and one thing only whether any bleeding heart liberal agrees with it or not. Immigration and the destruction of indigenous people's jobs through cheap labour. The destruction of the NHS. The destruction of ways of life. Make no mistake about it.

The economies are a side show and just a watered down way that liberal media can hide behind so that they can remain politically correct, thus placating their ghastly fat liberal female voters that have jack shit and never will.

This is a Hustings of Denial in the USA.

It's a fucking ugly sight and I will be glad when it's all over.


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## NYC Composer

You could always close your eyes, or follow fearless leader Farage to your next adventure.


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## Baron Greuner

Ha! You got that right about Farage. But as you know I don't follow anyone Larry and resolutely refuse to be part of a pack or a member of sides.


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## Baron Greuner

The way General Clarke talks may well be accurate, but unfortunately it makes him sound like he's full of shit.


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## G.R. Baumann

Show me one General that isn't. However he predicted the US lead unjust attack on Iraq to become an incubator for ISIS, without knowing they would be called this, in this interview from 2007 already.


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## Baron Greuner

Well we've got a few Generals and Admirals in our family and even a Field Marshall and Chief Commissioner of the Met. And let me not forget the Bosun, who unfortunately was unable to predict a mutiny.

None of them were full of shit. 

However, one of them indeed predicted the winner of a Derby once.


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## chimuelo

Yuze guys know the fix is in.
Trump built a huge fan base, this was his goal.
You can especially see this with no ground game investment, no attempts to get new voters.
Hes simply finishing the final curtain call with a very large fan base that will guarantee him a new show with a built in crowd.
Like a gig in Vegas.
Over 2,000 stages, Tuesday night is no different than Friday.
Hell your vote doesnt even count as the electoral was decided like the super delegates were.
This election was the best Academy Award I ever saw.

Odd that the only candidate who hasnt been hacked by Russia was Trump.
My guess is he has good security on his own servers like HRC did, but usually there are huge databases of dirt on your opponoent.
The DNC had no such files on The Donald.
We would have seen them.

And Larry I understand this is a divisive election and HRC is a liar, but this not an honest business.

Trump supporters consists of all Americans not just the Klan.
They will fall in line as there were worse elections like in the 60s when Liberals were killing millions in VietNam and Kent State, yet the hills remain and the rivers flow.

Rejoice as once again we get a fresh start.
Nothings going to change, fundraising starts the evening of the inaguration, billionaires get to write themselves new legislation.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I disagree that Hillary lies as much as Trump. Over and over, I've heard Trump say stuff that contradicts what I myself have heard him say. He's a con man who thinks he can get away with anything. He's a piece of work.

Hillary is ambitious. As a politician, she knows that she needs to back policies that people like. And she needs to avoid policies that fall from favor. It's a defensive position, but after being under intense attack since the early '90s, I get it. And supporting positions that align with the electorate isn't such a bad thing. That said, a leader looks forward, says stuff that isn't popular today, changes minds, and makes the policy popular. Bernie had more of this kind of leadership; however, I question if he'd be able to build enough of a Washington coalition to accomplish anything. Clinton has better organizational skills.

There was an instructive moment in the debate where Trump quoted a leaked document about her telling people to have a public and a private position. Clinton responded that she was describing a sequence in the Lincoln movie. She looked uncomfortable and came off as a liar. Funny thing is, if you read the transcript, she was telling the truth. She was probably thinking, "nobody will believe this, but", and yes, she didn't sound believable.

The bottom line for me is that Trump is Captain Bullshit. When he talks about policy, he says nothing of substance. He just says that his greatness will solve stuff. There's clearly nothing behind the gold paint. "Squirrel!!!"

The second part of this puzzle is that Bill Clinton's presidency didn't lead to nuclear war, didn't undermine the economy, and didn't unleash some Masonic cabal. Since then, Hillary has been a senator and Secretary of State. No doubt, she made mistakes. But she's gained wisdom in the process. International diplomacy is complex, and hopefully, she's refined her approach.

Trump, on the other hand, has zero national security experience. All he has is ego and bluster. He's all too easily revealed as a fraud. What we do know about him is that he uses his power to screw people over. He starts petty fights with his enemies. He screws people who don't fight back. He tears down everybody - including Christie, Ryan, Preibus, McCain, and even Pence. He's not even loyal to family, having open affairs while married. The guy will become an island with a mob. Lord of the Flies, indeed.

But thinking that Hillary will bring crazy to the White House is reaching. The 1990's proved that the Clintons are moderates who value stability.

Hillary might not be well-liked but she has what it takes to do a great job as president.


----------



## Baron Greuner

An Oval Office blow job didn't seem particular moderate Jon did it? Or particularly stable? And then the denial later?

They don't actually live together do they? That's a difficult one to believe isn't it?


----------



## chimuelo

Look guys Hillary is the best liar because these guys are all trial lawyers, not successful but enough to get a slot in the corporation.
Im impressed by the media, investors from foreign countries, this is truly impressive.
HRC is going to be fine.
Dont know about yuze guys but when I go to court I want a lawyer that plays golf with the judge, owns the snack bar at the courthouse where assitants blab about thier case for others to hear and lies better than everyone.

Were going to be fine.
Prostitutes on the foundations payroll be will be hostessing parties.
It wont be the Obama 3rd term.
She had to say that until the investigation was over.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

G.R., even the Republicans are now saying the Iraq invasion was a horrendous blunder (although they certainly weren't saying that when it started). And I think most liberals agree with ideological noninterventionist libertarians that "regime change" is a bad foreign policy, although we agree from different angles.

Furthermore, you can read any of the late Chalmers Johnson's "Blowback" book series to get a clear idea how unsustainable our American empire is. Combine that with private things mercenary businesses - for example Blackwater (now called something else) - and you'll see that what Sanders calls "regime change" is just the bumper sticker version of a deep problem.

BUT... we can't just unentangle ourselves from a tangled world with the snap of the finger (a concept that scales to a lot of things, such as healthcare financing). International relations is a game of perceived national interests. Most decisions - Libya, whatever - are smaller ones that have to be taken one at a time, and it's usually bad vs. less bad, not bad vs. good.

So it's easy to sit in an armchair and go on about this and that, much harder when you look more closely at any one of hundreds of foreign policy situations.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Whoa! Just watching Rawhide and Clint started singing in a saloon. That guy will do anything to get into the music scene.


----------



## NYC Composer

Good point, Nick-and we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. We're s'posed to go in and save people, but if we intervene anywhere it's imperialism and the actions of an evil empire. It just depends which side of the geopolitical fence we're being perceived from. Not that we haven't made drastic mistakes (like Iraq), but still. 

Putin's recent nuclear musings are an interesting example of why we might be important to the world at large. China, N. Korea, Iran, Pakistan. It's a contentious world.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

And we'd create power vacuums if we just withdrew from all contention. We use our power constructively as well as destructively.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Baron Greuner said:


> An Oval Office blow job didn't seem particular moderate Jon did it?



Weak tea. 

I put out a case for why Hillary is the far superior candidate based on policies and experience, and all you offer in return is a blow job?


----------



## Baron Greuner

No you said the Clintons were moderate and stable. Let's just suppose that was the one and only incident, how would that still square stable?


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Ha! You got that right about Farage. But as you know I don't follow anyone Larry and resolutely refuse to be part of a pack or a member of sides.


With all due respect Adrian (which, btw equals no respect at all) of course you're a member of a specific ideology, which includes a nativist anti-globalism and assumes it takes blustery, hearty white males to lead the western world against the scourge of foreign intruders. You're also militaristic and believe in an authoritarian approach, and you believe this reflects the will of "indigenous" people, or if it doesn't, it should.

Non aligned with some organization? Maybe. Objective with no point of view? Hardly. I don't belong to a political party either, but I don't pretend to have come to no determinations about the world, and I plan to work to try to change stuff for the rest of my short life, now that I'm old and have the time.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I'm talking about policies. You know, economic, military, legislative. Bill Clinton's administration sought stability for economic markets and foreign borders. Clinton signed the crime bill and implemented a welfare to work program, which were not part of the liberal agenda; hence, he was a moderate. It's not like Bill was pushing for oral sex in legislation. He wrongly thought that his indiscretion was private, rather than public, life.

Or are you worried that Hillary will carry on with interns? It seems that Trump is the guy to worry about when it comes to self control.


----------



## passsacaglia

There are different times now than then, although the same mission has been planned and worked on for the last 40+ years so..


----------



## NYC Composer

What mission is that, Pass?


----------



## JonFairhurst

To go to Mars?


----------



## chimuelo

SNL is already working on a Hillary skit over the backdrop of recent testimony under oath.

Let us proceed......(gavel hits twice)
State your name for the record please....
"I can't remember"......


----------



## JonFairhurst

And I thought I couldn't read German.


----------



## chimuelo

Yes, but win or lose Americans get a sexual predator in the White House.

Awesome.

But a man will be in charge of Secret Service again so no more hookers from Columbia or El Chapo stripper parties.
No more S.African guys pretending to speak for the deaf while Obama reads the speech Vallory gave him.


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> Yes, but win or lose Americans get a sexual predator in the White House.



But only one of them has shown remorse or apologized. The other continues to attack his accusers and has threatened lawsuits on those who report on it.

_"It is important to me that everybody who has been hurt know that the sorrow I feel is genuine," he said, as Hillary Rodham Clinton looked on, seated near the podium but showing little emotion or expression. "First and most important, my family; also my friends; my staff; my Cabinet; Monica Lewinsky and her family, and the American people. I have asked all for their forgiveness."_
- Bill Clinton in 1998

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-09-12/news/1998255019_1_monica-lewinsky-lewinsky-scandal-relationship-with-lewinsky

_"I did something for the worst possible reason -- just because I could. I think that's just about the most morally indefensible reason anybody could have for doing anything."_
- Bill Clinton in 2004
_
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/20/clinton.book/

"And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pussy."_
- Donald Trump in 2005


----------



## chimuelo

Its just part of the show.
Makes the idea of having the Clintons OK as the world was saved from a crazy out of control gangster, who has dozens of victims who have nothing to fear by coming out now, since assurances were given that he wont win.
Impressive coordination and timing with full media support, federal agencies, and the Russians that Romney warned Obama about, which was laughed off by the border less complex globalists.

Its truly impressive.

The game is on for the final debate by racists from Fox News to give it even more authenticity.
Its all liberal and consevative moderators, liberal and conservative media.
Even though the majority of Americans are independent.

Cant wait for the final Trump implosion.
Fox News has sold the debate questions to the complex borderless campaign in advance.
Polls will drop just days before the election.

Awesome...


----------



## NYC Composer

It's all rigged.

Thank gawd.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Could this be more on topic for this thread on VI-Control?

Danny Elfman composes an original score for "Trump Stalks Hillary"

Must watch TV...
http://www.funnyordie.com/articles/0c1140eacc/danny-elfman-composed-an-original-horror-movie-score-for-trump-stalking-hillary-at-the-debate


----------



## chimuelo

LoL.....
Great idea but the music wasn't the usual Elfman quality.

I was hoping for more sniveling and weeping from the Donalds victims in the recent Gloria Alred trailer.

Better than the Meg Whitman whiney maid who needed grievance counselling from the abuse at the hands of the evil CEO who also backs Hillary now.

You'd think they wouldn't have to read their statement, but rehearse it for a day or so.

The real Trump would have stalked HRC then goosed her from behind while giving her latest rendition of Benghazzi......


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Nick Batzdorf said:


> much harder when you look more closely at any one of hundreds of foreign policy situations.



Yes Nick, of course it is complex. Then again, perhaps it was even more complex when the 500 years lasting Roman Republic was devestated by too many political conflicts, hence incubated the Roman Empire as a result. 

Looking back, one particular thing is of the utmost concern, to say it with M.T. Cicero's words:



> A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.



Hence, the cartoon brute who is in the headlines, no, he is of no concern to me at all, but this treason from within is, very much so. Forces at play that desire, and stirred already, more intense conflicts in CIA theme parks along the Russian border, while at the same time US-PACOM Admiral Harry Harris conducts FONOPS "freedom of navigation operations" through Chinese claimed waters. The doctrine of "innocent passage" applies, what else, and with HRC sitting in oval office, his outspoken desire for a much stronger response, I am afraid, will be embraced by HRC. Harris was HRC's military aid from 2011-2013.

Yes, it is complex, but even the untrained eye can observe the insane military build up happening lately, and even more so the propaganda war, the usual pretext.

ah well.... we shall see, we shall see....

dum spiro, spero

Best
G


----------



## NYC Composer

Differing levels of concern Georg, but why in the world would a "cartoon brute" not concern you?

How about an ex-KGB gangster-does he disturb you?
Or an emperor deity in North Korea-does he disturb you? How about that insane military buildup, or the insane Chinese military buildup, or Putin's new nuclear threats? No disturbance?
Pakistan-feeling secure there? How about Turkey? Syria? Are you enjoying Assad?

Cicero probably didn't foresee nuclear weapons, and the existential threats we face at present are internecine, certainly. We'll figure it out-I think the next four years will do it. Hope we do, ok?...because the tender mercies of the other big dogs on the planet will make ours look positively beneficent.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

NYC Composer said:


> Are you enjoying Assad?



Larry, most of your reactions to my frequent critique and thoughts on US policies have a red line oozing messianic Americanism. - It is grotesque! -


----------



## NYC Composer

Georg, most of your posts are filled with polemical ivory tower naïveté or dark conspiracy theories. You offer nothing but darkness as far as I can see. Your dire analyses usually target the Evil Empire that is the U.S. After a while, it's just tiring. Light a candle once in a while.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Having watched many many USA elections over the years, this one is a pathetic sight. This has to be the saddest spectacle of an election ever seen that has denigrated into ridiculously irrelevant personal remarks that only moronic readers of Hello magazine might find interesting and can only leave the USA in a very bad place.


----------



## NYC Composer

Thank the good lord you Brits have your political ducks in a row. We look to you admiringly as a model of what we can only aspire to.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry you always make comparisons and how one pile of shit is somehow better than another pile of shit.
The spotlight is on the USA. When the spotlight is anywhere else, I will let you know.

This is fear talking on your part. You don't need to be fearful, at least on the result. The aftermath maybe.


----------



## NYC Composer

I am too old to be afraid of anything or anybody on a personal level. I'm playing out my string and fuck all y'all who think that compassion and hope equal weakness. Go play with your cars and your guns, make your dire predictions, hate the stranger, go to church and say stuff hypocritically. Stay safe.

You know, every cynic I've ever met thinks they're "realistic" or "objective." What a crock of shit. In the long run, we're all dead. Some people are dead inside way before their time, soured by bitterness and despair. Come out into the light, Adrian. Take a nice drive. Feel the sun on your face. Be grateful.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Larry who cares what make of dildo a footballers wife uses?

Nothing to be frightened of Larry. Nothing.

When you need to be frightened I will let you know. Nothing at the moment.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, I see-you say I'm frightened, I say I'm not, so you repeat yourself. Ok.

You're a rutabaga. Henceforth, you may freely refer to me as frightened, and I shall remind you that you're a rutabaga, and we can keep this nonsense going for as long as your rutabagish self desires. 
Cheers!


----------



## chimuelo

Joe Biden and Kerry told America's foreign owned media that we are going to respond to State sponsored hacking at a time of thier choosing before handing over control over to the UN.
So we can now see yet another Federal Agency coordinating with the borderless complex globalist campaign.

Impressive.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hahah!

Had to look that up. :D

Incidentally, how many more aspiring models do the Washington Post have left up their sleeve?


----------



## Baron Greuner

And are any of them available anyone know?


----------



## chimuelo

Ruth Nader Ginsberg has been commenting again in America's foreign owned media about NFL Players, etc.
Appears she hasn't been groped by Clinton or Trump.
If she'd drop that Stephen Hawkings hairdo she might be eligible.


----------



## Baron Greuner

There's a lot of women out there that would actually pay money to be groped by Trump. 

I can't see the problem.


----------



## chimuelo

True.
But having a daughter who is a dancer in Vegas I fear such scoundrels but American women can protect themselves.
But to me I see this as a weakness in a man not a strength.
I scored my trim by pretending I don't notice thier cleavage, or escape proof heels.
Most women want respect but at the same time prefer a man who has been to the Inn Zone enough that he doesn't need to dance before and after scoring a touchdown.....

Baron, DJT is going to another show, not the white house.
Follow the money.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

NYC Composer said:


> most of your posts are filled with polemical ivory tower naïveté or dark conspiracy theories



I don't think you'd be able to put meat on that bone, but of course, you are entitled to your opinion, regardless.

x x x x​Apart from that, Joe Biden displayed American exeptionalism again on Meet the Press. Very clever move before Lausanne, very clever. Not!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Never could see how he was winning this from the start Jimmy. But entertainment value....well!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

G.R., it's not that I disagree that we have an empire, much less that I'm in favor of our numerous foreign policy excesses. And the fact that 42% of our voters are projected to vote for Txxxx says very clearly that there are lot of exceptionally unexceptional people in this country.

It's that there's so much more to the picture than the negativity you're posting about. We use our power as a stabilizing force, often a humanitarian one. The 49% of us voting for Hillary aren't deplorable. There are all kinds of great things going on in this country in every field. I'm fortunate to know lots of wonderful people here. It's a fantastic place to live.

So no, we're not the great Satan.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm interested that you can apply some historical perspective to 100 years of Germany and not be bothered by ambitious demagogues rallying large, boisterous chanting crowds with nativist rhetoric, Georg. In my opinion, your viewing lens is rather narrow.


----------



## chimuelo

Biden should tell Vallory and Michele he isnt interested in blabbing about our Cyber capabilities.
These guys just cant keep thier mouths shut.
Trump is predictable which makes him dangerous. But it seems Obama when caught lying (again) as we see in more of Podestas hacked emails gets really tweaked.
Putin has his number front to back.

Lets say we do some hacks, why in the world would you make the mistake of telling the world?
Will they respond again..?
What if Obama doesnt do anything but somebody else does and we get hit?
Americans dont believe thier President, but will anyone else believe him if he said it wasnt us?

Sure look forward to new blood.
Lets hope they all get thier own server too unless they want us to see what lying bastards they really are....


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm interested in the targeted release of specific information. Assange as a folk hero who's acting as a simple conduit for the free flow of all information? Apparently not. Waging personal vendettas that address insults to his person and challenges to his power? Seems so. Willing to partner with those, like Putin, who offer blandishments? Well, he's hardly egoless.

This new era of transparency will have a lot of unforeseen consequences. I don't know exactly how international diplomacy will be conducted. Actually, I'm not sure his life itself will be conducted. No more texts, emails, or phone calls that require any level of privacy? Will we all become so cautious as to only speak private matters to each other in whispers, in the darkness, with lots of noise as a cover and hands cupping our mouths? Will we sweep our fellow conversationalists for recording devices? Pretty interesting.


----------



## chimuelo

It's called political correctness.

And Larry, you can get a VPN for 19 bucks a month.
If you can proove financial loss, they cover the expenses, the attorneys fees, etc.
If you can proove an email pretending to be PayPal got through on the VPN you get 100 bucks...

If our multi trillion dollar big spending elites would spend half the time worrying about our national security instead of their investors wishes, and in many cases demands, we'd be in a better place.

OTOH HRC gets no credit for evading the Russian hackers, as that would have finished her off, but they got squat.
Im already feeling better knowing the angry Queen will be storming all of agencies getting rid of Obamas donors children who cant run a lemonade stand.

HRC broke the law and lied her ass off.
Yeah so what, she fooled everyone.
The Trump job will put her down as the smartest con job ever.
That's the 30,000 emails she bleached.
Talking points to Trump, dirt on the GOP Candidates, Sanders, etc.

Smart gal posing as stupid....


----------



## NYC Composer

...or maybe your peeps, the REAL Americans, will reject her and elect Mr. Trump. Problem solved-finally, we take back our country and make America great again. Rejection of elites, the masses triumph. Liberte, egalite, fraternite. Grabass for all, woohoo! Better trade deals, mass deportations, a new dawn of cooperation with Roosia, jobs for all. I gave seen the light and it says "Trump" in golden neon. I look forward to the cleanliness and honesty of the new Gilded Age in America.


----------



## chimuelo

Stop watching Fox News.
Have faith in our corrupt system.


----------



## NYC Composer

But Fox News is the vox populi.
I like to watch truth in action.


----------



## chimuelo

So you watch complex borderless outlets like MSNBSheep?


----------



## NYC Composer

Of course. I'm a sheep of little intellect. I take in all information I'm fed and dutifully spit it back out.


----------



## chimuelo

So which stenographer do you let hypnotize you the most?


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, you know,just all of them.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Nick Batzdorf said:


> The 49% of us voting for Hillary aren't deplorable. There are all kinds of great things going on in this country in every field. I'm fortunate to know lots of wonderful people here. It's a fantastic place to live.
> 
> So no, we're not the great Satan.



Of course you're not Nick! I lived long enough in the US to know the beautiful sides as well, and hey, most of all, I do differentiate between the ordinary people and the powers of the establishment.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> We use our power as a stabilizing force, often a humanitarian one.



I would argue that this sounds like straight from the manual. DOD directive 3000.05.

The normative Notions of R2P and humanitarian aid interventions were established in the post cold war area. The history of US interventionary actions, justfied and camouflaged to the public in defensive /humanitarian and R2P terms is long and the post WWII global strategy no secret.

I don't buy the rabble about humanitarian intervention at all. It is part of the establishments stereotype political obfuscation.

Perhaps this is worth your time: 
_Jean Bricmont, Diana Johnstone, Humanitarian Imperialism: Using Human Rights to Sell War

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/316317.Humanitarian_Imperialism_


----------



## chimuelo

Libya was the best one yet.
Obama was dying for an Arab Spring win since he failed to save the thousands in Iran. And was out smarted in Egypt.
So killing in the name of Human Rights was a desperate attempt to succeed at something in Libya and Liberal NeoCons just aren't very good at anything other than wealth redistribution amongst themselves and their friends.


----------



## benmrx

I dream of a blue Texas. Mr. Rump may just get us there, though he still has some work to do.


----------



## NYC Composer

What are Republican Neo-Cons good at?


----------



## chimuelo

Nation building and corporate stock projection.
Not much of a difference but I can handle 4 years of rich white Liberals.

Just glad the Sheep have seen the fake Liberals way of getting rich while thier minorities continue being kept in thier place.

Like Area 51 was proven real, we see what was ridiculed as conspiracy theories being real.
Actually worse than I thought.
The Catholic Spring and Needy Latinos was an awesome concept for the Soros servants.
A Hispanic majority is going to be the Liberal nightmare.
South and Central America would rather be poor than communist.
They would never be content with worshipping the White Liberal God's.


----------



## NYC Composer

Awesomely ridiculous. No one who is impoverished prefers poverty to some change of political system under which they wouldn't be.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Jesus H Christ!!!









Have any of you seen The Intern???


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, here's today's LarryScreed- 


This idea of "Messianic Americanism" and me as a purveyor of it is one that interests me on a number of levels.

1. In America in 2016, the one who is presenting as a Messiah and bearing a heavy crown of thorns is Donald J. Trump. Arms outstretched, absorbing the slings and arrows of the slanted media and his political opposition, forced to defend his character against vile accusations, he lugs his cross wearily up the hill, preaching to his converts as he trudges. He does it all for the people. It's often been said that Christ will not be recognized among us, but obviously he's taken human form again.

2. I have always, and now reaffirm it, deplored American military adventurism. I came of age as one the last of the draft registrees in 1972, months before Nixon ended the draft. I would not have fought in that war, as I had, at a young age, decided to go to prison instead. Obviously, I was young and naive about what that would have been like. I have subsequently deplored our misadventures in Central America, the Middle East and elsewhere with deep disquiet and sometimes horror. We have done some bad things.

We have also fed and given medical support to people throughout the Third World by means of governmental and private foreign aid. Regardless of all the bullshit about the Clinton Global Initiative, when you drill down as I have you find millions of people whose lives are being positively affected by their work in AIDS, education, support of families and children and their funding and analysis of effective local organizations . The Gates Foundation has done tremendous work on malaria, TB, inoculation,etc. The billionaire Giving Pledge in the U. S. is changing the face of poverty in the world. Anyone who needs links, let me know.

3. Far from being Messianic about "Americanism", I'm one of those dreaded globalists and re-distributors.i believe in trade and taking in refugees, though prudently. I don't like the idea of a few feudal families holding vast amounts of world wealth. Still, I also believe in a form of capitalism that, though regulated, offers more financial motivation and possibilities for financial ascendancy than pure socialism. I think of myself as a socio-capitalist. My father was the first of three generations of his family to go to college. I had that opportunity as well. I don't believe that human progress is egoless. I think making lives better for those who come after is a worthy goal. I like the drive of America. I like the energy and muscularity of NYC. I think that the vast land mass of America includes places of incredible beauty and many kind and warm people. Most countries are not any one single thing. America, more than most because of its tremendous diversity of topography and cultures, is many things.

To sum up-I don't pretend to be 100% objective about this place I've lived in for 62 years and that I am grateful to for the opportunities it has provided me, but I'm not trying to sell it to anyone. It's deeply flawed. It does some good. It's my home.

3. I'd like to destroy our nuclear arsenal, decommission our warships and turn our airplanes into scrap, then re-direct those resources to bolster the lives of all of our citizens and the rest of the world. Anyone who thinks this would be a good idea for the citizenry of the planet is naive beyond my ability to comprehend.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

benmrx said:


> I dream of a blue Texas.


Some people's dreams are others' nightmares.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Aolichi, are you implying that those of us who understand why it's not just rhetoric to say something very much like Txxxx is the most loathsome, dangerous, "violent/troubling/fascist/aggressive" candidate in US history are in favor of firebombing GOP offices?

Given how disgusting it is to even consider voting for that pile of shit, I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the astounding absurdity of that implication - nor at depth of the false equivalence.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

That fucking asshole just gets worse and worse every day. It's beyond depressing that so many people are voting for him.


----------



## chimuelo

It was Siberian separatists.......


----------



## NYC Composer

Aoiichi said:


> I presume everybody who has kvetched about Trump's "violent/troubling/fascist/aggressive rhetoric" or something like that will now not hesitate to condemn the actual bombing of a GOP office :^)


I hope whoever did this thing is caught and punished. Does that work for you?


----------



## chimuelo

Wikileaks documents get less relevant, dozens of more women go to the NYTimes and talk about Trump sexually assaulting them in 1963 when they were in Jr. High.
Everythings going according to plan.

Russian Spetnaz fire bombed the GOP Headquarters but it wont have an effect.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

By the way, the reason I say it gets worse and worse every day - apart from the fact that it does - is that his latest is blaming "animals representing Hillary Clinton" firebombed the office.

It's just astounding how awful he is.

And Chim, first of all to hell with Wikileaks and Julian Assange. Second, the big story is that Russians are hacking our election servers, not what was in those leaked emails - which is basically nothing. Yes, it bothers me that Hillary was down with the Simpson/Bowles "deficit reduction" dickheads, but her platform today is way to the left of that.

Comparing that to anything whatsoever to do with Txxxx is... there aren't words to describe universe-sized ludicrousness.


----------



## chimuelo

Her platform in private is different than the platform she pretends to believe in public.
The people who surround her are complete believers in thier own superiority.

They tried thier stupid charm offensive, it failed, then human rights and democracy to nations where thousands of people walk in circles around a1200 year old meteor, no go.Iran had the best chance to be turned around, they missed out, instead we give them billions to buy rockets to fire at us.

I hope HRC drops the white Liberal mastef race shit and actually does something good.
Id love to have someone to admire again.
Rudy Guilliani is past his prime and kind of crazy but when Saudis handed him checks for millions he turned them down.
Now we have Liberals lusting for cash.
Makes me sick at such greed in our leaders.
They look like petty car salesmen....

But people can change.
I hope the best comes from this disgusting process.


----------



## NYC Composer

Pretty amusing that a party that prides itself on conservatism is running a guy who isn't even nominally a conservative, just a phony populist and opportunistic racist. Pretty amusing that the phony populism is represented by, of all things, a New York City billionaire boondoggler who games the system and bilks both his rich investors (in the case of his real estate deals) and the little people he purportedly represents (in the case of TRUMP U, which sounds sort of like a curse.) Yet THIS is the guy who will lead white Republican men out of their long sojourn in the desert of despair.

When I look at the genesis of Trump's campaign, I always go back to his initial sortie and find it as disgusting now as I did then.No one has ever been able to sufficiently explain or justify birtherism to me in any context other than pure bigotry.


----------



## chimuelo

Pretty amusing that we have to get Putins guys to find out the truth about correspondence owned by the tax payers...


----------



## NYC Composer

Really. How are DNC emails owned by "the taxpayers'?


----------



## chimuelo

Im referring to the Sec of State and the Presidents communications.
Bernie hacked the DNC first week of the race.
Anybody can hack that fraudulent group of dumb shits.

A 14 year old hacked Sarah Palins email accounts remember.....
This is why HRC should get credit for using a private server.

But hey were stronger together.
Unless your catholic, evangelical, a basement dweller needy latino, or deplorable irredeemable type.


----------



## NYC Composer

So American taxpayers are entitled to see all communications between the President and Secretarry of State? In what time frame-realtime? Years after through petitions under the Freedom of Information act? How about interoffice CIA communications, Homeland Security or FBI? We pay those guys too, right?


----------



## Baron Greuner

I definitely didn't do it.

I haven't caught this on the news: Wherabouts?


----------



## chimuelo

Our over educated elites must classify their communications.
Failing to do so means you're subject to FOIA requests.
They figured no requests were to be honored unless the court orders it.
Allowing time to be your defense.

Times up.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Rasmussen shows McMullin in 2nd place in Utah, 1 point behind Trump. http://heatst.com/world/exclusive-evan-mcmullin-utah-poll-independent-conservative-ties-trump/ And I have read that given the right scenario, just this one state could mean the difference in the 270 being denied to HRC and DJT.


----------



## woodsdenis

Michael K. Bain said:


> Rasmussen shows McMullin in 2nd place in Utah, 1 point behind Trump. http://heatst.com/world/exclusive-evan-mcmullin-utah-poll-independent-conservative-ties-trump/ And I have read that given the right scenario, just this one state could mean the difference in the 270 being denied to HRC and DJT.


Utah is perhaps the most Republican state in the union, having voted Republican by at least 19 percentage points in every presidential election after 1964. I am not even American and I know that !!!! What would it affect anything as the likelihood of a Democratic win is virtually nil.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I'm not even American Denis, yet incredibly, I still know their current present President is crap.

It's almost miraculous the things we pick up from afar Denis. 

You're not even English Denis, but you knew Cameron was crap right? Not such a vast distance I grant you, but still you knew.

I'm not even Irish (have Irish ancestry though) and through some incredible chain of events, I knew that Ireland joining the EU was a really bad idea. I amaze myself all the time in this way.


----------



## woodsdenis

Actually Ireland joining the EU was and is a very good idea, we are currently reaping the benefit of you guys leaving  As far as Obama is concerned he has improved the international image of the US immeasurably compared to the previous incumbent . Of course the argument always is if you are not american mind your own business, unfortunately if you have a clown like DJT within sniffing (see what I did there) distance of a nuclear code it is "our" business.


----------



## chimuelo

Comedians are the best source for news in America.

Wonder if the GOP will take his show off of the air?

Banning free speech is illegal, unless you're running wikileaks, then you lose the freedom of speech.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

woodsdenis said:


> Utah is perhaps the most Republican state in the union, having voted Republican by at least 19 percentage points in every presidential election after 1964. I am not even American and I know that !!!! What would it affect anything as the likelihood of a Democratic win is virtually nil.


I went back and re-read the article. I was wrong, it's not just Utah. Utah is just the start. There are other things involved. The article states not likely, but certainly possible That possibility is what I'm hanging my hat on.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump would love my Symetrix Expander/Gate.
White Noise and Reverb can trigger the Keyed inputs and knock any signals down 60db.

Cool little drum sub mixer rack.
TC Fireworx uses Pitch and Gated Verb to get that Jon Bonham largeness.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Anything to stop the snorting.


----------



## NYC Composer

NYC Composer said:


> I hope whoever did this thing is caught and punished. Does that work for you?



?


----------



## NYC Composer

I quoted my answer to you because I gave you the courtesy of answering your question so I thought you might have the courtesy to answer mine.

As I am extremely against violent protest, I'll simply tell you that you're wrong.

If you want to debate the issues, I'm happy to do that. As to your ad hominem comments, go fuck yourself, then have a nice day, podna.


----------



## chimuelo

Yepp.
I guess folks are being pushed to their limits.

The American Government has closed ranks on thier choice, can't change that.
Russians want Trump big time.

Haven't heard from other investors yet. But European press seems to have chosen HRC too.
Wonder what Qatar, Saudi Arabia wants.
Investments in birthday gifts and the Foundation suggests Clinton.

Anyone know if Putin invested in the Foundation or just got the Uranium and Silicon Valley city through out smarting our fierce negotiators?


----------



## chimuelo

Fear not gents this race is over.
Any word on NBC having drawn a contract for new reality shows?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Aoiichi said:


> Under your veneer of liberal snark, I can hear just how frustrated you are that no EVIL RETHUGLIKKAN NAZI BUSH WORSHIPPERS were in the office at the time to get what they deserved (according to you).
> 
> Addenum: The KKK was founded by the democrats and Bush is voting for Clinton.



That's HW. Dubya hasn't said what he's going to do, only that he's not supporting Trump.



Aoiichi said:


> Your insecurities over how you want people who think differently to you to die are your problems, not mine. Pathetic!



I'm as sick of liberalism as you, but I gotta say this: NYC Composer is oe of the most reasonable and fair people in this forum. I hardly agree with him on any issue, but he has been known to call out the rabid dogs on his own side occasionally. And no, I'm not call all liberals here "rabid dogs", just the rabid-doggish liberals.


----------



## NYC Composer

I have told you I abhor violence. You have told me I love violence. The thought that you know me better than I know me is an interesting tack to take Dr. Freud, but no basis for a logical discussion. Please feel free to rant on without me. You and I are done.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Aoiichi said:


> You love violence.



This is quite an act. You can tell what people love just by posting on the Internet. 

Oooh. Can you tell me my favorite color? Maybe you can guess my birthday? What number am I thinking of?

I'm a Democrat. I am against violence. I'm 100% against the firebombing of the GOP office, hope the perps are caught and prosecuted. Thank goodness nobody was hurt. Personally, I want the government to back off on victimless, non-violent crime. But I stand against violent crime. Period.

Telling people that you've never met what they feel is bizarre.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> This is quite an act. You can tell what people love just by posting on the Internet.
> 
> Oooh. Can you tell me my favorite color? Maybe you can guess my birthday? What number am I thinking of?
> 
> I'm a Democrat. I am against violence. I'm 100% against the firebombing of the GOP office, hope the perps are caught and prosecuted. Thank goodness nobody was hurt. Personally, I want the government to back off on victimless, non-violent crime. But I stand against violent crime. Period.
> 
> Telling people that you've never met what they feel is bizarre.


Hey Jon, tell that to some of those over on your side who are always reading the conservatives' minds.


----------



## NYC Composer

I think this is more immediate and specific, Michael. I stand with you when anyone tries to put you in a basket of anything except positions you've clearly stated, and I appreciate that you stood up for my attempts at fairness.

I have said before and say it again-we need to root out hate, stop these broad generalizations, stop yelling across the aisle and find whatever common ground we can through discussion and reasoned debate rather than talking points and hateful rhetoric. I say it to everyone across the political spectrum.


----------



## woodsdenis

Crikey I never knew Alex Jones posted on here !!!!!


----------



## chimuelo

Unleash the Kraaken............


----------



## woodsdenis

Sorry couldn't resist it.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

woodsdenis said:


> Sorry couldn't resist it.


That is funny, but that pic represents the alt-right, not the traditional GOP base. Remember, Donald Trump won he primaries because he was the lone alt-right nationalist vs the conservative vote divided between 11 or 12 candidates and the moderate vote divided between 4 or 5.


----------



## chimuelo

On a happier note it seems everybody is giving interviews on the windy rooftops of Las Vegas resorts.
I can proudly say every single tower you see I swung the mud bucket over and poured the concrete.
Then I played in every Resort after building them.
Sad that the Resorts I played in the 80s & 90s were all imploded and gone.
Jazz night was every Monday at Pia Zadoras Riviera.
It was imploded this year.....

The retaking of Mosul is awesome.
The October surprise...


----------



## chimuelo

Larry did you ever get to use Symetrix hardware in studio back in the day?
The Quad Expander/Gate with Sidechaining per channel is awesome.
Its so good I broke out my old Larry Seyer Giga/Scope P4 DAWg and used that powerful Maple kit.
The audio re routed back into the box is killer.
Im getting MegaDeath drum sounds with those punchy ass double kicks.
Tons of fun. Great sound.
Jusf trounces all over Superior OceanWay and all native kits.
If there was ever a great drum sample player it was Gigastudio.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, if this tells you anything, I go back to Dolby A and a hardware 224.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Troll alert.

As if the picture with the gun weren't enough.

Please don't feed him.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> that pic represents the alt-right, not the traditional GOP base. Remember, Donald Trump won he primaries because he was the lone alt-right nationalist vs the conservative vote divided between 11 or 12 candidates and the moderate vote divided between 4 or 5.



That pic represents exactly what the Republican party has created, starting with the Nixon Southern strategy. There is no "traditional GOP base" with any dignity whatsoever.

I got your "traditional GOP base" and the disdain they have for our country right here:

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/17/joh...any-supreme-court-nominee-of-hillary-clinton/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/10/17/supreme-court-is-an-issue-again-after-mccain-suggests-clinton-blockade/


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

This is what the "traditional GOP base" proposes to do about climate change. If you think this is a serious political party just because half the country is gullible enough to vote for a single one of these destructive fools, think again:

https://gop.com/platform/americas-natural-resources/


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

This is what the "traditional GOP base" - led by that brilliant policy sage Paul Ryan - would like to do to help the needy, all the while claiming "Christian values":

http://www.cbpp.org/research/federa...t-of-budget-cuts-from-low-and-moderate-income


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

And that's only part of why I have nothing but contempt for anyone who even considers voting for a single one of these assholes. Sorry to offend you, Chim. Please cut and paste your diatribe about rich liberal sheep again if it'll make you feel better.


----------



## chimuelo

Those kind of rants make me want to vote for Trump again.....


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

It's not a rant, it's an answer to Michael K. Bain's trying to make that disgraceful party seem respectable.


----------



## chimuelo

We are watching an entire administration full of the wealthy whites you worship ruin our confidence in governance and you seek talking points from the last century..?

Glad you're proud of these lying pieces of shit you hold so high...

Just another reason to remove these 2 Crime Families..


----------



## Soundhound

I go away for a few days and everybody's just repeating themselves. C'mon gang, lets get some new material! Interesting to see we have a gun toting avatar in the mix. Hopefully it's ironic, since guns are for pussies, in case anyone's wondering.

Jimmy now that Trump is basically using your talking points now (rigged election etc.) I'm assuming you signed on with Bannon and replaced Conway?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Over and over and over again: it's not both parties, it's one party: the Republicans.

You don't have to look farther than the first link in my posts above, in which McCain declares that the Republicans won't allow Hillary to nominate a Supreme Court justice!

But if you were to look more deeply - which takes more effort than calling everyone sheep - you'd see that only one party is doing its best to deny healthcare to its constituents, fighting for cuts in public investment, trying to eliminate all social aid to the needy, opposing a minimum wage altogether, and on and on.

Those are policies of the rich white people you think are so shitty. The Democrats are on the right side of all those issues.

So who's the sheep - the person who thinks all of government sucks (which is what the Republican scorched earth strategy is all about) or the one who expends the effort to see what's really going on?


----------



## chimuelo

Snore...fading concentration on the 2nd sentence of your worshipping of false Liberal God's.

Super Majority.
Could have changed the world.
Instead we see what they stand for themselves and investors so spare me explanations of why the wealthy whites you worship DID NOTHING.

We gave them the super majority they begged for.
You were betrayed.

This fake party you claim exists is a fantasy in a Star Trek re run.

They do what they're told by who ever pays them, and it sure ain't us.


----------



## Soundhound

Yeah, didn't do anything in the 2 years they had the majority. Health care reform that people had been trying and failing to get through for several generations. Christ almighty Jimmy, do we need to fact check this thread? Slows shit waaaayy down, but if you insist on saying things like that...

And don't change the subject, Donald! Yes it needs work, yes it's a giveaway to insurance companies, single payer would, and will be, much better. Like the rest of the civilized world has. (Do we count as part of that world anymore? Not with this jaggoff running for president we don't) Gee what party was it that tried to get single payer healthcare through? It was this chick married to a president. Tough broad, what's her name again?




chimuelo said:


> Snore...fading concentration on the 2nd sentence of your worshipping of false Liberal God's.
> 
> Super Majority.
> Could have changed the world.
> Instead we see what they stand for themselves and investors so spare me explanations of why the wealthy whites you worship DID NOTHING.


----------



## chimuelo

Liberals can't show a single success other than the treasure trove of Intel in Bin Laden's raid.

Everything they touch turns to shit.
The ashes of destruction they leave behind them could fertilize the Sanai.

A bunch of girly men.
That's why they've selected a woman to carry out more failed programs.
Hillary's dick is bigger....


----------



## NYC Composer

Jim, I appealed to your patriotism over all this time, nothing else. Stop bullshitting.

You've agonized long enough. If voting for Trump fulfills your notion of patriotism, having weighed everything as objectively as you've claimed to, you should vote for him, end of story.


----------



## chimuelo

Voting period is patriotic.
HRC has this and our fun with Donald is over.
I've watched the incremental steps needed to throw the race.
He's done an excellent job.

Because I have to shamefully vote for Soros lawyer doesn't mean I have to like it.

So I will call out Pagan idolatry every time someone tries to pretend these 2 Law Firms represents us.

If this is a source of irritation, I guess that makes us even for all of the druel I see the believers spewing.


----------



## NYC Composer

Your theory is deeply full of shit. This guy wouldn't throw an election for any amount of money. He's a "winner."

Do you think if Hillary loses, she will suggest violent insurrection?

Do you think her peeps will suggest a Second Amendment solution?

C'mon, Jimmy. Nobody's forcing you into a corner. Make a rational decision and stop couching it in a macro-conspiracy cocoon.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> Liberals can't show a single success other than the treasure trove of Intel in Bin Laden's raid



Do you mean Obama, or liberals in general?

If you mean Obama, as I think, what about 20 million more people with health coverage? Dodd-Frank? The Paris Accords? The Iran nuclear deal? Marriage equality? The ARRA (even though it was too small) and its investments?

What other president since Johnson has left that kind of legacy?

And what makes your comment so ridiculous is that he'd have accomplished a whole lot more were it not for the the Republican, who are the biggest problem facing our country!

If you meant liberals in general, well, we'd still have slavery, women couldn't vote, forget about marriage equality... I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea.


----------



## chimuelo

Somebodys pissing on your back telling you its rain.
Hows that warm urine feel?


----------



## NYC Composer

Thet dawg won't hunt.


----------



## Soundhound

I guess I did miss something after all. The idea that Trump is playing this according to script is just silly. He's completely destroyed his brand. All that's left for him is to run an alt-right TV show. He will get 40 million morons to watch every week though. 

But again, the greater danger is that Paul Ryan and the rest of the American Taliban will seem normal by comparison. That and the fact that those 40 million Trump voters think it's cool to be racist. 

Boy can I not wait for this to be over. Could we all just vote tomorrow? The NBA season starts soon, and I'd really like some quiet time before the serious work it requires begins.


----------



## passsacaglia

NYC Composer said:


> What mission is that, Pass?


The PetroDollar-mission. I hate to post this but it's The true.
The nazi killed a lot of jews and other ethicities because of their race claiming they were the problem for the misery (total bullshit ofc, my family lost a few in the camps...we all know what happened), a zillion of people died because of their race.
US bombing and invading countries and killing Millions of people, for what? G R E E D, M O N E Y and O I L.
Ghadaffi was a sick man but a smart man in economics, building those water reservoirs/water system which the US bombed. They were afraid of Libya becoming strong and ditching the US dollar, declining US companies to start there obviously. So, they had to kill him.
Very easy blaiming the "bad guys", just like Germany blamed the jews, US is blaiming the middle east countries and russia.

http://anonhq.com/investigative-world-cant-rest-petrodollar/

Facts.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Paxman did quite a good programme last night on the BBC when he did a jaunt round America asking people what they were voting for and why.
Thought it was fairly balanced most of the time.


----------



## jcrosby

Holy shit, what the hell did I just stumble onto???
Apparently I found VI-Control's subreddit: r/VI-Control


----------



## chimuelo

We learned how to use bleach-bit there.
Great source of information.
1s & 0s are a PITA so just douse the drive with bleach-bit.
I use the version that just removes watermarks.


----------



## NYC Composer

I had a meeting on the east side this afternoon, and walking home I passed Trump tower. Women behind barricades were shouting ""Don't grab my pussy!" 
Guys with Trump-Pence signs were yelling "You're just jealous!"

God bless America.


----------



## chimuelo

Even the protests are fake and rigged.
I believe negotiators came to an agreement on the new show Bill and Trump negotiated.
So tonight is the melt down, followed by the NSA shutting down Trumps Twitter account.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jmmy, you're so inconsistent!


----------



## chimuelo

HRC just said after Mosul "we'll" go into Syria....??
Cant wait to see what keen ears make of that.
How can "we" do that with no boots on the ground...?
Iraqi troops? Saudi or Jordanian..?

The world wants to know what her banks and billionaires expect of her....


----------



## NYC Composer

1st banner on Fox AND MSNBC-

""Trump refuses to commit to accepting results of election."


----------



## chimuelo

Why won't they let the Sheep cheer?
Even with the audio shut down it reverberated into the Condenser mics.
Can't believe there's no rebuff on HRCs comment about "we're going into Syria after Mosul" remark.

Definitely a Freudian slip and a sign the race is rigged as she is getting briefs that Trump must not be getting.


----------



## NYC Composer

...and yet the headline stays the same. He had a decent debate, and then injected 30 seconds of crazy. Republicans have no choice but to run away from that statement.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

chimuelo said:


> HRC just said after Mosul "we'll" go into Syria



and then some.... Yemen, Sudan, Somalia and Iran.... just wait and see, or how did she put it again... _"We came, we saw, he died!... Hahahaha!..."

_


----------



## NYC Composer

I wonder what Quaddafi was saying as that plane exploded in Lockerbie.

I don't support political assassinations nor deposing of rulers of sovereign nations even if they're evil fuckers, however I do like to call a thing a thing.


----------



## passsacaglia

I mean guys...come on, think about it and be realistic. We all know it...
Yeah. It's all about the PetroDollar. All countries refused Or changed to Euros have been invaded. And now Iran on their map. We all know Hillary wants to blame it on something just to strike those countries.
Just like G.W Bush did. He f*ckd it up big time creating that WTC collapse, invading and bombing Iraq. Did they find any weapons of mass destruction? No. But oh well. They Absolutely found some other interesting stuff.

We all know all the fake stories the US have done just to get it Their way, blaming other ppl and countries.
I'm not calling those leaders angels, absolutely no. But. Look at what's happening now, Why Assad? Well, as Ghadaffi and Hussein, they ditched the USD petrodollar currency and goddamit they had to eat it up. 
Guessed what happened the day after Libya was "liberated"? Well, the British prime minister was there with his western buddies. Clinton also wanted to be a part of the party...damn it. Now Iran has a loot of nukes and they're a threat..well.. imo, US is more of a threat to the world than any nation. So glad I am safe in my country. 
W a k e U p W o r l d. Please.


----------



## NYC Composer

No one is safe in nuclear war, pass.

So, would you like us to destroy our nuclear capability, de-commision our warships, turn our planes into scrap? What do you think would happen next? I'll tell you-you'd find out that some dangers are greater than the United States, and it wouldn't take too long.

Further, I can certainly understand why someone from outside our country (or within) would have a problem with Hillary. My question is-why in the world would you think that an inexperienced, prickly, oversensitive spoiled billionaire would be a good choice for the world? Simply because he's not Hillary and not part of the rigged political system, so he'd automatically make a better leader than someone who is? How does that make sense?

"We all know"? What do we know? What do YOU know? most of your information seems to come from conspiracy theory websites. It's on the Internet, so I guess it must be true!


----------



## passsacaglia

My friend. I think no one of them are better actually, tough decision and I havent thought about it and have a final decision...could be like you say, maybe she is better. But, yeah ofc I read that and add the math and it seems logical the stuff wiki and anonymous and also other more reliable pages say...
Since the US is the nation that is most dependent and user of oil, it seems logical. I'm just sayin.
Would be interesting, to see how the world Would look like, without all the freedom wars and killing the leaders like Ghadaffi, Hussein and now when they want to overthrow Assad. Mainly because of the long going oil/petrodollar dilemma. It's only the US who invaded those. There are more countries using oil, but the US seem the top one who wants to invade and do regime change for their profit. That's my biggest question more than who'd be the best leader of the states. I mean...the problem is that many of the mericans just like HRC think themselves Most powerful and Most important and The Greatest people and country in the world...well not to me or any of my friends (who support Hillary for example). Why do all of those pharma companies spend So much money on Ads for example? Billions..spend it on research, green power etc. On the people, not to get more profit. 
It's so bizarre, everything is about money and profit, and theyre willing to kill whatever it takes to win. 
I'm a passionate musician and medicine guy, just so sick and tired of see ppl waste money on shit instead of saving the world. That's just arrogance, ignorance and...selfishness. 
I havent touched or will, any type of narcotics, but I do know that thc oil kills cancer cells and keep other ones chill. 
Help people. Stop fighting over oil. Mind your own business and take care of your own in the first place. Just like the peaceful countries in the world or some maya indians living in peace and harmony. I'm all for that. 
Would be nice if the leaders would sit down for once and think... Ok what the hell are we doing...?? So many lives and blood spilled...for our greed.


----------



## passsacaglia

True about the nuclear war thing 
Just trying to be a realist and get to the ground with what the hell is going and and has been... I was pro Bernie but now I'm just pro myself and my music again. But it irritates me all those neighbours keep fighting over stuff and blood is spilled, totally waste of innocent ppl. Makes me really sad. 
Do not defend any of the 2 candidates so yeah, that's why stuff like the wiki and anonymous make more sense than world leaders claiming stuff for their best.


----------



## NYC Composer

I agree. It would be nice. It would be wonderful. 

Yes, we are the most powerful nation on earth, militarily. It's a fact. "Greatest" is a subjective judgement, of course. You and your friends can make up your own minds.

Gaddhafi and Hussein (and Assad for that matter) were dictators and murderers. Please research that statement and tell me if it's true or not.

THC oil kills cancer cells? Which ones? facts, please.

Pharma companies and ads? Agreed.

On oil-the U.S. is actually energy independent at this point. We produce enough of our own energy. Look it up and tell me if I'm right.


----------



## passsacaglia

NYC Composer said:


> I agree. It would be nice. It would be wonderful.
> 
> Yes, we are the most powerful nation on earth, militarily. It's a fact. "Greatest" is a subjective judgement, of course. You and your friends can make up your own minds.
> 
> Gaddhafi and Hussein (and Assad for that matter) were dictators and murderers. Please research that statement and tell me if it's true or not.
> 
> THC oil kills cancer cells? Which ones? facts, please.
> 
> Pharma companies and ads? Agreed.
> 
> On oil-the U.S. is actually energy independent at this point. We produce enough of our own energy. Look it up and tell me if I'm right.



Will get back on the other ones soon, very busy atm.

http://newstarget.com/2016-01-21-u-...-cancer-cells-and-protects-healthy-cells.html

+ the medical review article I found the PDF study from my med.school:


and there's some youtube videos showing the same thing. I also know there are many rare cancer forms, but this is def. a start towards the right path.
http://www.naturalnews.com/047932_cannabis_oil_medicinal_marijuana_alternative_medicine.html


----------



## chimuelo

The Petro dollar has kept the world stable, Treasury backed Bonds have kept the world stable.
To replace it would be world wide chaos and a nuclear arms race.

What we are seeing is the world's last chance to avoid several major conflicts. 

Iran was offered as a way to ease tension in the area but they seem to think they can build pipelines through the world's most unstable region.

Nobody will put thier economy at risk to rely on Russia or Iran to provide security.

That leaves the Dollar and the US Navy as the stable option.
Like it or not that is the world's best option.
China and USA are dependent on each other. This is the most viable option for world stability via trade, with us taking the deficit.

Putin believes he can safeguard Oil via pipelines, nobody but Iran and him buy this.

Europe, China and USA must come up with clean renewable energy in the next 30 years or we can see what will happen.

Putin's answer is not viable.
They will never provide security in such an unstable region.
Everyone thinks they can pacify warring factions. Won't happen.
This is why Naval escorts are the best way as International waters require no consent.

Science and education will prevent a world catastrophe.
So encourage your kids to save us by getting a good education instead of gender studies.


----------



## passsacaglia

chimuelo said:


> The Petro dollar has kept the world stable, Treasury backed Bonds have kept the world stable.
> To replace it would be world wide chaos and a nuclear arms race.
> 
> What we are seeing is the world's last chance to avoid several major conflicts.
> 
> Iran was offered as a way to ease tension in the area but they seem to think they can build pipelines through the world's most unstable region.
> 
> Nobody will put thier economy at risk to rely on Russia or Iran to provide security.
> 
> That leaves the Dollar and the US Navy as the stable option.
> Like it or not that is the world's best option.
> China and USA are dependent on each other. This is the most viable option for world stability via trade, with us taking the deficit.
> 
> Putin believes he can safeguard Oil via pipelines, nobody but Iran and him buy this.
> 
> Europe, China and USA must come up with clean renewable energy in the next 30 years or we can see what will happen.
> 
> Putin's answer is not viable.
> They will never provide security in such an unstable region.
> Everyone thinks they can pacify warring factions. Won't happen.
> This is why Naval escorts are the best way as International waters require no consent.
> 
> Science and education will prevent a world catastrophe.
> So encourage your kids to save us by getting a good education instead of gender studies.


Thanks hombre 
Needed to hear something like that to clarify the mess in my head, Larry I think my battleship is cool atm.
Won't press my attack-button soon. Now I'll just continue to be a spectator. And yeah, good education - winning.
Just to catch up - J-dawg, regarding Larry's question, who'd be the one as the situation looks like now? Mr P*ssymagnet or Mrs. Cruella DeVille?

And for both/everyone, what would be the wisest move and best way to learn from ol' times, to avoid more wars etc? I'm here all to be educated, not to debate.


----------



## chimuelo

Well HRC since she has taken retainers in advance.
Good lawyers use case scheduling to prioritize thier agenda.
She has the momentum as the Mosul campaign is using nations from the region.
A fragile coalition, but sure shows other players there's a new Sheriff in town and he lives down the street in case you need him.

Bernie and Trump simply raised the stakes and let peoples voices be heard.
I am hopeful for the near term but Americans must be told what's at stake and the truth, or we will have similar elections in the future that won't be pretty.

But make no mistake this election was decided years ago. 
Investors and the media with several federal agencies had to be used to secure the investment.
Some serious shit.

2020 is a critical year.
Just hope Putin doesn't draw Turkey into Syria.
They hate Assad. But Syrians and Kurds hate Turkey.
So this shows you how pipelines are just not going to work...


----------



## chimuelo

That's just the immediate area.
Armenians, Afghans, Paks and Indians....Each nation threatening to cut off oil whenever they choose to...

Nobody will invest a dime into that fantasy.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> I had a meeting on the east side this afternoon, and walking home I passed Trump tower. Women behind barricades were shouting ""Don't grab my pussy!"



I think the world has had it's fill of American pussy by now.

The very fact that only in America you can win an election based on your opponent having a supposed obsession with pussy just about says it all.
And those women on the east side have as much chance of having their pussies grabbed as I having my bollocks grabbed by Theresa May in the lift of the Waldorf Astoria hotel at any given random moment.

Reporter to Hillary on November 9th - 'What was the deciding factor in your win Madam President?'

Hillary to reporter - "Pussy!'

Jesus H just look at this and get over it.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Hey Larry, here's some sentiments you might appreciate, even though they're from a conservative:

http://www.redstate.com/aglanon/2016/10/13/evan-mcmullin-president/

_The next four years will be tough for conservatives. We will be washing the stain of Trump off for a long time. We still need to purge our ranks of so many charlatans and hacks that sold out conservatism, and even Christianity, all in the name of tribalism.


I have no interest in returning to who I was before Donald Trump took over my party. None of us should be tempted to go back to tribal bomb throwing and mindless hatred of our political opponents. I'm not interested in the party as it was before it was blown to pieces, and you shouldn't be either. It's what put us here.


We should want to work with people. Yes, from all sides of the political spectrum. Because tribalism, treating politics as a team sport, ain't working. And there are 19 trillion examples I can give you as proof.


Evan McMullin and his recently announced Vice Presidential running mate, Mindy Finn, have been at the tip of the spear in the resistance against the true Establishment.


An Establishment that doesn't care how many terms you've served. Doesn't care who your donors are. Doesn't care who endorses you. Only cares about one thing: Will you obey?


Evan and Mindy would not. And neither will I.


Evan McMullin for President._​


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael-

Though I appreciate the sentiment and I understand your dilemma, we've had this discussion before. McMullin may be the tip of the spear, but it's a tiny, tiny spear. He has no name recognition, he's not going to be elected, and to me, voting for him is equivalent to not voting. I know you don't agree, so we'll have to agree to disagree.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> I think the world has had it's fill of American pussy by now.
> 
> The very fact that only in America you can win an election based on your opponent having a supposed obsession with pussy just about says it all.
> And those women on the east side have as much chance of having their pussies grabbed as I having my bollocks grabbed by Theresa May in the life of the Waldorf Astoria hotel at any given random moment.
> 
> Reporter to Hillary on November 9th - 'What was the deciding factor in your win Madam President?'
> 
> Hillary to reporter - "Pussy!'
> 
> Jesus H just look at this and get over it.



What's more likely to keep him from being nominated is his politically stupid position of constant whining about unfairness. Whiny little bitch, indeed.


----------



## Baron Greuner

It depends on how people regard the word unfair. Personally I hate it when people say _anything_ is not fair. It generally means they're liberal losers and can't get what they want because life is unfair and rich people never have anything unfair happen to them and life's unfair and I want my mom!


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael-
> 
> Though I appreciate the sentiment and I understand your dilemma, we've had this discussion before. McMullin may be the tip of the spear, but it's a tiny, tiny spear. He has no name recognition, he's not going to be elected, and to me, voting for him is equivalent to not voting. I know you don't agree, so we'll have to agree to disagree.


I didn't quote that passage for you because of the endorsement for McMullin (though he likely will win Utah, which will be a big blow to Trump). 
I quoted it for you because I thought you would agree with the general tone of it: working together, no hatred, etc.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> It depends on how people regard the word unfair. Personally I hate it when people say _anything_ is not fair. It generally means they're liberal losers and can't get what they want because life is unfair and rich people never have anything unfair happen to them and life's unfair and I want my mom!


...except in this case it's a silver spoon born rich fucktard who never loses. If it seems he will, it's the system's fault, because he couldn't possibly lose unless it was "rigged" and "unfair." Poor Donald. Perhaps next year he can star on another reality show-"The Biggest Whiner."

So, not a liberal loser-a putatively conservative loser. Fucks with your theory, that.

How's your croup?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> to me, voting for him [McMullin] is equivalent to not voting. I know you don't agree, so we'll have to agree to disagree.


Will you say that if his victory in Utah plays a role in Trump not getting 270?


----------



## NYC Composer

@michael-TOTALLY agree with the tone.
I HATE these red state/blue state "baskets." I hate the way people are talking to each other.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> Will you say that if his victory in Utah plays a role in Trump not getting 270?


I s'pose not, but I find it very unfeasible that it would make a difference.

Like I said though, I understand your dilemma.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> ...except in this case it's a silver spoon born rich fucktard who never loses. If it seems he will, it's the system's fault, because he couldn't possibly lose unless it was "rigged" and "unfair." Poor Donald. Perhaps next year he can star on another reality show-"The Biggest Whiner."
> 
> So, not a liberal loser-a putatively conservative loser. Fucks with your theory, that.
> 
> How's your croup?


What's conservative about him, Larry? He flip flops on every issue. We don't know what he is except that he supported liberal causes and the Clintons until he decided to run for Prez. 
Honestly, I can't understand why people still think he's trying to win.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I s'pose not, but I find it very unfeasible that it would make a difference.
> 
> Like I said though, I understand your dilemma.


Thanks, but to tell the truth, I've got no dilemma in this situation. A dilemma is when I can't decide what to do. I know I will vote for one of the 3 candidates I want to serve our country as pres, not one of the ones who make me sick thinking of them in the role.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm not going to repeat my counter, Michael. It's your vote.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> So, not a liberal loser-a putatively conservative loser. Fucks with your theory, that.
> 
> How's your croup?



Alright. Took out the wife for whiz round as its her birthday today. She managed to get up enough courage to actually drive until her nerve gave up the ghost after about 2 miles. I was enjoying it though because the passenger side with Paul Temple on the CD player is as comfortable as it gets.


----------



## chimuelo

I'm going to miss some of the humor this election cycle had.
Trump is a dick, no doubt about it, but today reporters asked if he'd contest the election results and he says not if I win.

That's just refreshing...


----------



## NYC Composer

The peaceful transfer of power is one of bedrock principles our democracy counts on. I don't find it funny in the least, and I'm not refreshed. Now I hope it's a complete whitewash-because if it is and he STILL contests it (which I could totally see happening) it will just be another brick in the wall of his contempt for this country.


----------



## chimuelo

Relax.
The race is already decided.
The illusion of authenticity is as vital as media moguls milking every last dollar from ads.
Trump will prove to be all smoke and no fire. He knows he has to let the believers down easy, then take the newly created fan base over to his new show.....


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't buy any of that, Jimmy, and I never have-but I love to be told to relax as if I'm a hysteric rather than someone who simply disagrees with your rather consistent analyses.


----------



## chimuelo

You reflect the headlines Larry, look over here, this is important.

Pay no attention to promoters of violence who hung with the President 40 times, total of 340+ visits.

I'm just saying before you jump in the lake to keep your wool from burning off, wait till the day comes.

Will 21 days of envisioning terror and mayhem do any good?

Maybe ask the Liberal promoters of violence why they destroy everything they come in contact with.

Little girly men paying others to take the risk their fat fragile bodies could not withstand....


----------



## Baron Greuner

Another aspiring model has come forward and accused Trump of touching her.

A man has also come forward and accused Hillary of beating him about the head with a large sock full of lesbians sanitary towels.

Jesus H. Where will it all end?


----------



## NYC Composer

And you seem pretty sheepish yourself Jimmy, repeating the same mantra over and over again. Take off your Guy Fawkes mask-it just looks silly.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh Adrian, playing the lesbian card? Really? Maybe you should focus on the real issue, that she has bigger testicles than he does.


----------



## chimuelo

Yes she does and she out smarted everybody by having a private server.
So lets give her credit for that.

Also give credit to the Oh-Ginnizers for making sure Trump stands by his original agreement, buried deep in the 33,000 emails Foundation Lawyers destroyed.
Wikileaks is showing us exactly what the Oh-Ginnizers wanted them to see and read.

We all know liberals are liars, dont need emails to proove that, its a historical fact.


----------



## NYC Composer

And Republicans are liars. And all politicians are liars. And all lobbyists are liars. And all corporate leaders are liars. And most humans are liars. And when we get in an independent non-aligned leader, that Person will be a liar. In a truly hacked world, we will find out that nobody tells the truth to the public, because they would never get elected or obtain any kind of power if they did. If this is some sort of revelation for you, then you are more politically naïve than I thought you were.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> I'm not going to repeat my counter, Michael. It's your vote.


I realized something today. When Evan first joined the race, I thought "Cool, someone who's not Trump or Hillary". But I have seen several interviews and such, and now I really like the guy. I do not know if I like him or Castle or Hoefling best at this point, but I can't lose with any of the three.


----------



## woodsdenis

too good not to share


----------



## chimuelo

The reason I prefer Liberal liars is you can count on anything they say at a percentage point.

When a lying Liberal says American families will save 2500 dollars a year you simply multiply that by a factor of 3.
It will cost you 5000 so now you have some estimated tax liability if you file quarterly.
Most Liberals dont know what quarterly is since theyre poor.
If they file at all its only annually and just keep adding debt as they emulate their leaders.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jeez, I sure miss trickledown and David Stockman. Thankfully, he posts articles on a financial website I read, so I get to post comments on his bullshit.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> I realized something today. When Evan first joined the race, I thought "Cool, someone who's not Trump or Hillary". But I have seen several interviews and such, and now I really like the guy. I do not know if I like him or Castle or Hoefling best at this point, but I can't lose with any of the three.


Michael, you have stop throwing me easy ones!


----------



## chimuelo

Stockman and Soros say to buy Gold to protect your future from Liberal debt


----------



## NYC Composer

Yeah. Stock man's been saying gold since 2009. Wonderful advice. Not.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Michael:



> working together, no hatred, etc.



Sure. Let's have a group hug, work together and love one another while the Republicans exacerbate climate change, cut taxes at the top, gut social programs (which they call "entitlements,"), eliminate the minimum wage, take away marriage equality, repeal the ACA so that millions of people lose their healthcare (and so on), make every state "right to work" (meaning further weaken unions to depress wages), oppose all public investment ...have I left anything out?

Oh yeah - balancing the budget.

So what if any one of those downright mean ideas alone would be a total disaster. Republican are a great bunch of people who are full of love for the American people.

Has anyone read their party platform? This is all in there - and there's more.


----------



## NYC Composer

Just a big basket of deplorables. They should go get their own country.

Oh wait-they did. We all live here, sometimes disagreeing vehemently and fighting for what we see as the soul of this country. I want to make my arguments forcefully and work to make our country better for all of us. I don't want to broadly generalize about people and reject their concerns as evil or typify them as idiots. I can't see how that's productive.


----------



## chimuelo

You are making a statement that "we" need to learn a new path.
Im wondering if "we" are the ones who imagined the present path.
as far as i can tell, "we" have no problem with a better path, if it was truly available.
i suppose that "we" could ignore those currently in charge. if "we" did that 100%, perhaps "we" could have a better world.
again, as far as i can tell, "we" have precisely the world that the owners would wish. pretty soon, there will be legitimate excuses to get rid of "us", leaving a happy world for those who are not "we". those who are not "we" have "we" just where "we" are wanted to be.

an example would be big SUVs in the USA. "we" are bombarded with commercials showing how awesome life is with those vehicles and "we" are shown how much better those vehicles are for our wives and children. when "we" buy those vehicles, "we" are called "selfish" and other names indicating that "we" are just trying to destroy the planet. most of "we" are just trying to get by as best "we" can in life, however and wouldn't have been so likely to make these purchases that "we" cannot afford, if the idea that it was better for EVERYONE to have the SUVs hadn't been repeated over and over via slick campaigns. "we" have been made into the bad guys, when someone else is actually the one who profits.

another example would be the "water shortage" in California. the water has always been limited, but Nestle is allowed to bottle 750 MILLION gallons of water with an expired lease, AT THE WATER'S SOURCE each year, and new homes are constantly being built and people are being moved in. there is a lot of money spent on convincing people to move to the L.A./Orange County area, and other parts of California. then the people who live here are penalized for not conserving water, as though the greed of people fined and under rationing are the original cause of the lack of water.

i realize that each of us has the responsibility to think for our self and that if "we" didn't participate, such a stupid system would disappear, but the coercion is SCIENTIFIC. it's carefully designed after years of study to be irresistible.


----------



## NYC Composer

Who the heck are you responding to, Jimmy?


----------



## chimuelo

Can't remember thier name but I see "they" deleted the post.

I will leave mine as is.

Rodriguez movie of Machete comes to mind.....

Jessica Alba says how can I reach you, why don't you text me?
Machete no text.
So Chimuelo no delete.

On another note of hypocrisy.....

Cardinal Nolan of the child molesting Catholic church, flanked by Clinton's and Trumps at Al Smith's Charity Ball at the Waldorf Astoria.

Such pillars of the community....

Waiting for Trump to implode here maybe.


----------



## chimuelo

Larry you know all of these wealthy white Liberals. Who is the Italian looking girl in red, 2 rows behind the podium, long white gloves.
Oh mercy me.
Bella Bazedos....
When she claps the cleavage jumps around in the most beautiful of rhythms....


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm just a simple man living on a few small Union pensions and some savings. You have me confused with people who inherit money. Me and the Missus are middle class working folk. We don't get invited to high class dinners.

Who deleted what post?

I recognize her. Maria Bartaromo. Financial talking head, former CNBC, presently Fox Business.


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah but these are the popular elite.
I know she's Italian because someone called her Marie.
In NYC everybody's Marie, Maria, Peter, Paul, Tony, etc.

My uncle Tony told me why there's so many Tonys in the USA.

When they boarded the boats in Palermo they would ask everyone where they're going.
Then they would stamp the destination on thier foreheads.

They didn't speak English so the customs guys would see TO NY on thier forehead then like my Uncle he used his city.
Tony Aggregento......


Ankyu.
I'm here all week.....


----------



## NYC Composer

See the edit to my post.

I'm starting to think this is your longest running gig, right here.


----------



## chimuelo

Maria is fine.
Kind of has that Sophia Loren thang going on.


----------



## NYC Composer

All the women on financial programs are super attractive.


----------



## chimuelo

Actually I get feeds when Elizabeth McDonald hosts for someone on FBN.
Always enjoy her.
Her attractiveness is her incredible brain and guests.
She fills in for one of thier babes as she's not a beauty, but she knows everyone and their business, super sharp.
I see Maria is on at 0500 so maybe I'll check her out.
I try and avoid the TV until my body expires at night.
Even then at the first insinuations of left right Crap I bypass it.
Feeds on topics of interest is my MO.
But even during an election financial channels manage to get sucked into these increasingly lengthy theatrical events.


----------



## chimuelo

I'm behind the times.
Just watched Miss Meadows with Katie Holmes.
Stupid movie but what a great psycho she plays. Talented girl.


----------



## NYC Composer

Was the deleted post from the Aoiichi dude, or what? Whose post was deleted, or was it a self delete?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Larry, all those arguments should make themselves. I'm not generalizing.

The real debate is over the actual wonk - the details how you raise people's wages, improve the healthcare finance system, move to the next energy economy. But just saying "climate change is a matter of opinion, repeal and replace, etc." is a freaking joke.

How do you reach someone like that? It's not clear to me that you can reach "moderate" Republicans, never mind Txxxx voters.


----------



## NYC Composer

Maybe starting by not calling them deplorable? I take your point. What we're talking about is methodology.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

I learned from this particular election that "democratic deficit" is real. Apart from that, I find it a pathetic state of affairs that a nation with 320 million citizens has nothing more to offer than Clinton or Trump as the coming POTUS, but perhaps that is the very effect of the democratic deficit.

Beyond doubts there many capable and of good character people who would qualify for the position on all levels.

Reality however is a voting system with Super Pacs and a candidate Clinton that even defies the Citizens United Supreme Court decision.

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/18/hillary-superpac-coordination/


----------



## NYC Composer

Read "Dark Money" by Jane Mayer, Georg. Then you can see how the opposition does it.

Until we get all this outside financing out of politics, it will go this way. At least then they'll have to use shopping bags full of cash.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

It comes as no surprise that money buys votes in a plutocracy now, or does it? Democractic checks and balances were dismantled by the neo liberal agenda in spades. 



> Thus far this election cycle, Dark Money spending has increased more than 34 percent over this point in the 2014 midterm elections — a five-fold leap over this date in the last presidential cycle.


 Source: The Center for Responsive Politics, www.opensecrets.org


----------



## NYC Composer

oh, but not the neo-con agenda? Baloney. Again, read Dark Money, by Jane Mayer.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

ad pedem litterae: http://mediaproject.wesleyan.edu/releases/disclosure-report/


----------



## G.R. Baumann

NYC Composer said:


> oh, but not the neo-con agenda? Baloney. Again, read Dark Money, by Jane Mayer.



I know the Koch Brothers story Larry, I'd rather read more Cicero than Jane Mayer.  That money from all fractions is weaponised is not a secret or conspiracy theory.


----------



## NYC Composer

Neither is your Super-Pac collusion information. No one who's not politically naive thinks that stuff is kept separate.

You SHOULD read Mayer. There are all sorts of politically monetary weapons. The Koch brothers methodology is particularly sinister. They've pretty much given up on the executive branch and are concentrating on buying state and local elections, quite successfully. They're also breaching higher education, gaining influence on curriculum and degree programs with endowments of chairs and influence over research grants. It's all quite insidious.

I don't think Cicero was particularly informative about the desire of oligarchs to pull fossil fuels out of the ground, despoiling the earth with little or no regulation.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> Oh Adrian, playing the lesbian card? Really?



No worries. Turns out the guy never said that at all, but accused Hillary of being a lesbian. Just some crazy people out there during this election.

Is Hillary a lesbian btw? She'll be the first lesbian president of these United States if that's the case and what a red letter day that will be!


----------



## chimuelo

One of the biggest problems people have are the Gods of Liberalism trying to change the world into what they wish it were without being honest, and not understanding people, then from their lofty perch demonize any who disagree.
Recent example is the President of the Phillipines kicking out America after close relations since freeing the people from Japanese occupation.
Read how investors got to become Ambassadors, then start trying to tell elected leaders we will punish you economically if you dont bow to our world vision.

Personally I dont vote for anyone because of the free stuff, or fake positions on issues that will never be delivered, but rather thier voting record and honesty.
Im more concerned I havent felt safe travelling for 15 years now because of Conservative regime change crap, and Liberals pathetic foreign policy and neolithic incompetence by sending donors to other nations instead of qualified diplomats.
I wish we would just get rid of the liberal investors who control our policy and repeal and replace thier feckless belief system of superiority...
Hey whaf if we give them billions just go away, thats a debt I wouldnt mind paying.


----------



## NYC Composer

Why oh why is it always liberals, when 8 years of neocon rule under Bush included the largest terrorist event on American soil, possibly the most wrong headed, expensive and damaging war we've ever fought and the worst financial crisis since 1929?


----------



## chimuelo

It's always Liberals because they have our foreign policy so masterfully implemented.
When Conservatives were in control I was equally displeased.
Especially when appointing Arnall to the Netherlands.
That was to escape prosecution.

I will bash these dirtbags until I see a more "transparent" honest system.

But as long as investors control these 2 Law Firms that's probably as useless as hoping for Unicorns & Glitter.

I do have some pads in Solaris that get me close though.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

GE:


> I find it a pathetic state of affairs that a nation with 320 million citizens has nothing more to offer than Clinton or Trump as the coming POTUS, but perhaps that is the very effect of the democratic deficit.



On the contrary, the fact that Hillary is such an excellent candidate who will almost certainly become our next president is a testament to our democratic bounty.


----------



## Soundhound

Because Jimmy is a closet republican.

<<
Why oh why is it always liberals, when 8 years of neocon rule under Bush included the largest terrorist event on American soil, possibly the most wrong headed, expensive and damaging war we've ever fought and the worst financial crisis since 1929?
>>


----------



## NYC Composer

Nah. Jimmy's a self admitted conservative.


----------



## chimuelo

I'm from an extinct party called the Union Democrats.

They've been replaced by the wealthiest of whites that pretend they are Liberal, when actually they would never dare set foot in a Liberal neighborhood, unless surrounded by Secret Service, Local racist police, all undercover of course since it's their every 4 year photo op.

The only Unions that get to eat with the rich whites are the Teachers, and other various Liberal Unions where failure means you get promoted.
They have ruined the meaning and function of a true Union.

They even rigged the Primary so a real Union supporter could not have access to the wealthy white Liberals tax skimming operation.


----------



## NYC Composer

It's all rigged!!


----------



## chimuelo

Naah.....Ya think..?

Like I said though, the organizational skills to get governments, agencies, media and investors to show their real faces is good news to me.
I could care less about who gets another million for a gift, or 12 million for a speech, I am glad to see such unity.

That kind of corruption I can live with.
Impressive...

OTOH if this is truly not a rigged race Trump will be in court the rest of his life getting sued for everything he has.
You can't go after the Clinton's like that unless it's agreed, or you're just nuts...

But some might say Clinton's are being kind and forgiving to let the Donald have a new show and live peacefully....
We'll see.
My guess is all involved prosper accordingly, and the Sheep will cheer.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, he's demonstrably fucked his brand, so he'll certainly need a new one. He and that nitwit Bannon will continue to push for the violent overthrow of guvmint and the appointment of a dictator, keeping women in their proper place, ending all social programs, and threatening the world with nukes. 

"Make the world safe for white men!"-the REAL entitlement program.


----------



## chimuelo

You need to get out more bro.
Lots of hispanic and black males support the Donald.
They dont want to over throw the gravy train.
Listen to thier music.
You wont hear them empowering women or whining about racism.
They want fine white chicks and money.
To believe anything different is a dislocation of reality.
I didnt believe it either until I listened to undef ground rap artists and even friends of my youngest son.
Arou d thier girls Im sure they love Hillary and the wealthy whites.
But even the girls agree their men are pigs.
But then sleep together at night and all is forgivven.

Jeez even Obamas brother sat with Trump at the last debate.
But I can relate.
I always wanted to be a white racist even thpugh my skin is brown, so Obamas brother is a black skinned white racist who wants to overthrow the guvmint and shit......

Donalds brand is Andrew Dice Clay.
The guy who sells out MGM Grand in Vegas 12 nights in a row.

In namby pamby land its cool to be kind and gentle, save the children, let your women wear the pants, but in the teal world it just aint so.

Hell Hillarys biggest supporters beat their women and kill gays.

Its all about the money bro, even when they say it isnt....


----------



## NYC Composer

Clay's a comedian. Trump is running for President.

Rappers want to sell records. Some are anti-gay and misogynist, some more socially involved. You need to listen to a wider variety. 

I'd like to get out more, but I'm cowering in my apartment, frightened of all those black youth in hoodies here in Harlem.

The "real world" you describe includes many many working women. Who wears the pants, men because the Bible sez so or women cause they bring home an equal paycheck? We'll see who, by gender, elects who in November. 

It's not "the real world" you're describing, Jim. It's just a different world in a bifurcated country. Thing is, the one you describe is dying off as the country becomes less and less rural and younger people move to the population centers where there's employment and opportunity. 

The culture of the country you describe is shrinking, and it's making big noise in its death throes. You seem to enjoy the scrum-me, I think it's sad, cause I grew up among many rural people in my small upstate town, and I always found much to like about them. You seem to see the world in a clear divide, not just in terms of have and have nots but the horrible evil that people who disagree with you bring with them, all their compassion nonsense, saving the children etc- which is weird. Children don't need saving? They probably ought to get jobs. Fucking toddlers. Takers!

Hey, on the bright side, they're probably still giving away land in Nebraska. You can always homestead with the coyotes.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump is running for a fan base of 50,000,000.
He has succeeded.
Everything he does shows he is not interested in winning.
The GOP proved this by spending all money on the down ticket, they have ZERO ground game.

What more proof do you need.
Speeches are great for ratings.
You honestly think Trump is trying to win?

This is ratings heaven.
Twitter and facebook are actually preparing to lose a huge portion of stats when Trump drops out.
Record levels of views on ALL social media.

Have faith in Chimuelos Crystal Ball.
It wasnt long ago that I was called a nut because I spoke of all of this long before wikileaks.
A rabid conspiracy theorist, etc.

I also admired Huma Abedeen long time ago and said her use of Anthony Weiner was brilliant.
She is the only one trying to keep Clintons from embarrassing the USA.

I would love to see her in 2020 in a role somewhere.
She knows everyone, respects our laws that the wealthiest whites feel they are above.

In a big pile of shit she is the shiny piece of gold.

I told you to send me a link for samples long time ago.
We were both right....


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, we may have to become co-emperors. You can have rural America. I'll take the money centers


----------



## Soundhound

Huma was using Weiner? Very Hunter Thompson, though kind of a reach even for him. So was FDR full of shit, according to the Book Of Jimmy? Rich white guy, after all.


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah these racist rural 60,000,000 Monsanto/Pfizer Farms are real sleepers, nobody knows they're there.....

As they say here in racist rural America, Jesus Saves, and Moses invests...

Ankyu

Racists Rural driveway, single lane only, claymore mines line both sides.
They did start to put in a couple left turn lanes 5 miles away so we are trying to progress, but it's painfully slow.


----------



## chimuelo

Soundhound said:


> Huma was using Weiner?



Of course she was, her teacher on how to keep your man was HRC.
Their guilt from getting busted being a predator/sex fiend lasts a lifetime.
Just look who orders daddy around these days....

No sense breaking up with him if he still wants to be a Mayor and such.
But since the last ordeal, she split.
You'll see, I'll predict he goes to Nancy Reagans Sex Freak clinic, and like Hollywood movie stars, you are forgiven. And they Catholics and Phony....she-it.

He's a very effective legislator, like him or not, he was all over several bills where cowardly liberals who lost their penis needed a shove.
He just wasn't a good liar, and like Bill, has some faults.

He said he liked women who were 45.

Pounds.


Ankyu


----------



## chimuelo

I also predict Chelsea will try to become President in the future pretending to be for children and little people, Huma as her running mate...


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> I also predict Chelsea will try to become President in the future pretending to be for children and little people, Huma as her running mate...


No. If you want to look to the next successful politician from a famous family, look at Michelle Obama


----------



## Soundhound

It is too bad he turned out to be such a tool. His politics are great and he was a good fighter. 

The idea that she was using him is just twisted though. It's the kind of thing Rush Limbaugh comes up with.




chimuelo said:


> Of course she was, her teacher on how to keep your man was HRC.
> Their guilt from getting busted being a predator/sex fiend lasts a lifetime.
> Just look who orders daddy around these days....
> 
> No sense breaking up with him if he still wants to be a Mayor and such.
> But since the last ordeal, she split.
> You'll see, I'll predict he goes to Nancy Reagans Sex Freak clinic, and like Hollywood movie stars, you are forgiven. And they Catholics and Phony....she-it.
> 
> He's a very effective legislator, like him or not, he was all over several bills where cowardly liberals who lost their penis needed a shove.
> He just wasn't a good liar, and like Bill, has some faults.
> 
> He said he liked women who were 45.
> 
> Pounds.
> 
> 
> Ankyu


----------



## NYC Composer

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Larry, all those arguments should make themselves. I'm not generalizing.
> 
> The real debate is over the actual wonk - the details how you raise people's wages, improve the healthcare finance system, move to the next energy economy. But just saying "climate change is a matter of opinion, repeal and replace, etc." is a freaking joke.
> 
> How do you reach someone like that? It's not clear to me that you can reach "moderate" Republicans, never mind Txxxx voters.


You know Nick, I've figured out your solution to Republicans:

"Repeal and replace."


----------



## chimuelo

Trumps poll numbers dipped.
The Obama family started campaigning for the Foundation.
Polls show Trump and HRC even again.

Michele Obama definitely can move polls.
A bright future for the GOP....


----------



## NYC Composer

Holy fuck.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/


----------



## chimuelo

Don't start adjusting your neck tie yet.
We know who was pre selected for us.
To keep the Sheep trembling the appearance of authenticity is key.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh please. Give it a rest.


----------



## chimuelo

No way Jose......
This horse is going to the Rodeo.


----------



## NYC Composer

Fine. You set em up, I'll knock 'em down.

I may be a lot of things, but "low energy" isn't among them.


----------



## chimuelo

Well keep a sprinkler near the front door in case your wool catches on fire..


----------



## NYC Composer

I'll keep a butterfly net and a straight jacket by your truck in case you need a mental intervention.

Keep insulting me and we can move on to playing the dozens. You're too young to know what that is, so you might want to look it up.


----------



## chimuelo

The only reason I'd go mental is if Trump renegs his blood oath will Bill and decides to release the Putin database, then wins the election.

I will marry my Girlfriend then become a Chinese citizen working Macau instead of Vegas.

My brotha from High School runs and performs at his own Jazz Club in Shanghai.
He tortures me with him and beautiful girls scantily dressed.
Things there are cool since Mao split the scene.
They have a big drug epidemic in Shanghai according to him.
Club drugs are easy cheap and deadly since there's no Liberals there regulating everything.


----------



## NYC Composer

This semblance of reality that you cling to is holding you back.


----------



## chimuelo

I'm a needy Latino, you must use simpler vernacular.


----------



## chimuelo

Been fun Larry.
But got 10 minutes to chug Jager and snort coke for my gig.

Ciao Mein.


----------



## NYC Composer

Don't go changin', Jim.


----------



## NYC Composer

New polls showing double digit or close for HRC. These polls are all over the map.


----------



## chimuelo

I took my own poll and it showed Trump getting a new media outlet, not just a show, and HRC winning by a landslide as the foreign money pours in to save the children.


----------



## Red

Nah. Trump is gonna win. I bet a grand on him. But again, I stand my ground that it's meaningless who becomes Potus.


----------



## NYC Composer

Check back in after about whether or not you're in the chips. I hope you got great odds.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

James... no.


----------



## Soundhound

Just saw Evan Mcmullen interviewed. This is the worrying thing about this election. Regressive, reactionary Reaganites like this are going to seem normal. Hillary Clinton is basically a republican, but a republican circa 1972. These post reagan guys ruined the country, and after Trump they're going to seem reasonable. After Trump pretty much anybody seems reasonable.


----------



## chimuelo

Well yuze guys better vote for real Liberals next time instead of the Kardashians.

Just finished sifting through voting records in 2010 on a 2 billion dollar Grid Bill that would protect "Americans" against a Cyber/EMP strike.
Recent cyber attacks got me worried.

Real public servants during the super majority lost to wealthy Liberal leadership that took lobbyist cash to stop the Bill in the Senate.

Markay was going after some of the wealthy Liberal infrastructure money, after teams of snipers using 50 caliber rifles took down 2 transformers in California causing major power outrages.

Seems the foreigners who built the awesome ACA Website got the billions instead of Americans.

I gave up on researching this back in 2013.
Those Damn FOIA requests were held up by Sibelius, the incredibly competent Liberal who sacrificed so much for us.

Kind of hard to find out if the lobbyists were giving out Russian, Iranian or Chinese cash to Nancy or Harry.

The same wealthy multi millionaire Liberals who defunded Tulsi Gabbard for standing with Bernie, causing her to step down from the DNC Post during the rigged primary.

This is why I give her money every time I'm asked.
Harry Nancy Chuck and Uncle Joe have a problem considering the nightmare "WE" would suffer with no grid.

Hopefully somebody went ahead and did this off the books.
But if not, and we suffer from this type of attack, just remember who thought Investors being repaid was more important.


----------



## chimuelo

Looking at why Nestle gets water, paid for by taxpayers of California, on an expired lease.
750,000,000 gallons at the source, during a drought.
Aren't tax payers supposed to be represented?
California is the largest gathering of wealthy Liberals in the country.
Surely they Care about the little people.
Farmers in Imperial Valley were basically cut off, but for the Right cash payment, were allowed to continue killing the Delta Smelt.

Time to get rid of wealthy public "servants."


----------



## NYC Composer

Monsanto decided Californians didn't need to know what was in their food-and somehow convinced Californians to agree. Always been a mystery to me.

Then there was the Mormon church and Prop 8. Another mystery.

The biggest lie of modern times was propagated by Richard "Dick" Cheney and his weapons of mass enrichment, so fuck all that "liberals" nonsense. You form a narrative that says it's not about red or blue, it's about green-but your bias is always evident. At least I don't pretend to objectivity-just civility.


----------



## Soundhound

It's the Breitbart/Neocon playbook. Dig up the dirt on the dems and turn a blind eye to everyone else. It's what gave us Sarah Palin, the Tea Party and Donald Trump.


----------



## chimuelo

Indeed.
Taking advantage of your position serving the little people has huge benefits.
You don't really think these people spend billions in an election to make a low 6 figure salary....

I'm just glad Hillary will change all of that for us...
The seething disdain the Liberal elites displayed in wikileaks for us needy Latinos, inquisition era catholics, deplorable, basement dwellers says no, but I think once the Clinton's get to the billionaire status, they might turn thier attention to us low life's just in time for another election, which if trends continue starts in late 2017 for the 2020 race where our richest battle it out just to help us dummies along.
We'll need lots of help in thier complex borderless world.


----------



## chimuelo

Sound hound please bash Conservatives.
The idea is to offend indoctrinated Liberals, so they feel it's an attack from thier arch enemy, then expose the other worthless party so I don't have to spend time doing that.

It takes years to read FOIA requests, so I'm still busy on the Liberal Super Majority that achieved great wealth for themselves.

Funny though, yuze guys had ZERO opposition, and got screwed.

Yet still believe that having opposition now will yield greater chances of success...?

If I had just 500 such Sheep I could have a great gig.
Following wherever I tell them, paying 15 bucks for a beer and liking it...

If dreams were only true..


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Chim, look in the mirror and tell me you see anything other than wool.

The election is a conspiracy, both parties are equally corrupt, liberals are all greedy or sheep, their policies mean nothing, right-wing agitprop isn't to be taken seriously because it's all a show...

...those are crazy uncle rantings, not the world's lone free thinker seeing reality.


----------



## NYC Composer

(Well, there's the Baron too)


----------



## chimuelo

The difference is I don't get angry as I know the system represents investors.
It's nothing personal, just business.

These were theories before, but now we see they are quite normal, so we basically have our candidates selected.

Hillary said so back in 2004, we hear this whenever the elites go off script..

I'm cool with it. As long as they try to serve us after taking care of thier investors.

I'm a Sheep, I always think there's hope for money left over to address the real problems facing Americans.

Elites never understand what we deal with as the laws they sell have no effect on them.

I want Hillary to do good.
I'm past the tiresome wikileaks and horny candidate stuff.

This race is over.
Look forward, and SCOTUS is no big deal, it's the economy being able to grow so Liberal debt might be addressed before our dollar becomes a Peso.

These 2 wings have the same Head and beak. Stop kidding yourselves.
It's investors first, then the Sheep.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Yes, investors first. He who pays the piper calls the tune. This is nothing new.

But what's your solution - to call everybody sheep? Yeah, that'll solve everything.

Let's take two realities: 1) Trump cuts income taxes for the wealthy, eliminates all inheritance tax, and cuts capital gains tax. - or - 2) Hillary raises taxes on the wealthy, including surcharges on income and investment income over $5M, and a higher inheritance tax above $3.5M.

http://taxfoundation.org/comparing-2016-presidential-tax-reform-proposals

Which of those two policies caters to the wealthiest investors?

One of these things is not like the other.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Chim, how do you figure Txxxxism - which will probably not disappear when this election is finally over - is what any investor in the world would want?

He's succeeded in making the country club Republicans homeless, never mind those rich liberal piggies you hate so much!


----------



## NYC Composer

I just don t see how there could be a 13 pt difference between polls.


----------



## chimuelo

There isn't 13 points.

I still think since Snowden, then the DOJ, IRS, EPA and now the FBI have been corrupted, Americans are scared of thier Government.

How many times have we heard how we are enemies because we disagree?

Wikileaks is no coincidence.
Ever since Snowden Americans fear thier Government.

We now distrust them to the point were afraid to speak.
So these pollsters better find a new line of work.


----------



## chimuelo

I live in Timbuktu.
The nearest College is 20 miles and is an Agricultural, Medical and Business college.
Nobody there wants Trump or Clinton.
Same at Washington University at the last debate.
They are huge Stein, Sanders and Johnson.

It's safe to assume since candidates were pre selected, that sewing confusion and info overload serves a purpose.

But I still don't know but a few.people that want either of the Federally selected candidates.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> But I still don't know but a few.people that want either of the Federally selected candidates.


And here they all are, in one room:


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy Wikileaks didn't make people afraid of their government, Ronald Reagan's regressive shtick was all about preaching the evils of government. It was picked up by the moron Newt Gingrich and his band of neanderthals in the 90s, and has been spoon fed to right wing people every day of their lives on Fox News.

The idea that Trump and Clinton are equally bad candidates is a fiction of right wing propaganda, shoved down the throats of low information voters. No one who is at least somewhat informed about what's happened in the world the last 20 years believes it.


----------



## NYC Composer

Sorry-only a 12 point differential now.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...s/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html


----------



## NYC Composer

'Hound, don't forget David Stockman, my favorite trickle down economist/urinator/broken clock!


----------



## Soundhound

Who could forget?  Though he's pretty much been relegated to the scrap heap.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I voted.

Thank goodness for ballot by mail in the Pacific Northwest. Why anybody should have to take a day off work and stand in line for hours is beyond me. What? Are they getting shoes Soviet style? It's 2016. People don't even stand in line for iPhones anymore.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Larry, I like fivethirtyeight.com. They also aggregate polls, and they have three models. It's really interesting how they weight everything.

The polls really do seem to bounce around, but this close to the election it looks like they're not going to change much.


----------



## chimuelo

Just saw Zeek Emmanuel the Daffy Duck sounding weasel trying to say how great ORomney care is going to be.
I wanted to see the cute chick Marie Bartiromo and having to listen to this dip shit killed a good mood.
Figured I'd come here as even you miserable bastards are more fun.

Why aren't yuze guys in a good mood?

You know HRC has this locked down yet I sense fear, as if somebody's gravy train just stopped running.


----------



## Soundhound

It might be the fact that 40 million people are about to vote for Donald Trump. Kind of scary to realize that that's the country you live in.


----------



## chimuelo

I think you add about 12,000,000 more if new registration reports are accurate.
Thank us Hispanics for the HRC win.
Bernie threw the race by letting HRC off the hook.
Trump threw the race with the Hispanic judge remark.
Most knew he wasn't serious about rapists, etc.
But the judge comment alerted legalized Hispanics he had a Tood.
Ever since then he tried to destroy himself but people won't let him.
They dislike the arrogant elite Liberals so much they risk a disaster.
2020 will settle all scores.
Need a new messenger.
Not namby pamby or Conservatives.
Middle Class rising star to take down the for sale sign.


----------



## NYC Composer

Just curious-if you put all liberals into a classification called "namby-pamby", what's your basket name for conservatives? "Wannabe tyrants?" "The Phony Tough Guyz"? "Authoritarians secretly wearing pantyhose?"


----------



## Soundhound

Pussies.


----------



## chimuelo

Corporate suck asses fits best.
They're proud of it too.
Girly men pretend they dislike banks and corporations for thier Sheep, but behind close doors they pole dance.

Working men and women built America.
Not victims.


----------



## chimuelo

Trump just called Obama a loser and a low life....

This is not how to win voters.
Maybe I heard it wrong as I was chopping cilantro.

Again blacks, Hispanics, LBGT and even Indians holding signs and cheering behind the DJT at gunpoint.

Anyone can see he doesn't want to win.

He's so depressing and vile.
Liberals must be terrified that so many Americans want them gone so bad they would stand with Trump.

I actually like the way he portrays the 2 Crime Families for everyone to see.
It's actually a bigger 3rd party than Perot had....

Relax fellas.
Immigrants will flood the country to ensure America's wealthiest stay in power for 4 more years.

But in 2020 A Hispanic middle class success story who prays out loud will usher out the godless Liberal elite.

The Pope will campaign with him.

It says so in the Book Of Revelations

So it shall be written,
So it shall be done.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Corporate suck asses fits best.
> They're proud of it too.
> Girly men pretend they dislike banks and corporations for thier Sheep, but behind close doors they pole dance.
> 
> Working men and women built America.
> Not victims.


Captains of industry and people of wealth built America. As the indigenous population was wiped out, they bought up all the large tracts of land, used slave and indentured foreign labor to grow profitable crops and suck out all the money, and later built the factories and owned the means of production. It took a virtual French Revolution of union organizers to get anybody paid and establish basic safety standards. Until then, workers were viewed as disposable trash.


----------



## JonFairhurst

NYC Composer said:


> Captains of industry and people of wealth built America. As the indigenous population was wiped out, they bought up all the large tracts of land, used slave and indentured foreign labor to grow profitable crops and suck out all the money, and later built the factories and owned the means of production. It took a virtual French Revolution of union organizers to get anybody paid and establish basic safety standards. Until then, workers were viewed as disposable trash.



Make America Great Again?


----------



## chimuelo

Larrys right.
Now days the wealthy send you to fight in wars, then you come home and get screwed by Liberal Unions at the Veterans Administration....

Heard our vets have been forced to repay Liberals 25,000 dollar bonuses for doing 3 and 4 tours of service.

Sure would be nice to see Obama sign an executive order for them.

But then they are rich Liberals investing in more failed concepts like Solyndra.

Liberals were also wise to bypass Union workers and use inmates for building Solar Panels for 1.28 an hour.
Sure act like Conservatives when its thier money....


----------



## chimuelo

I wonder which stripper Podesta will find today to say Trump touched her.?

Can you imagine the suns coming up, you been snorting all night and the glitter on your face is running, then the phone rings and its Gloria Alreds office calling with a 5,000 check to cry in front of a camera and read off a prepared message....

Ankyu


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, this is where the horrible biased media helps. I doubt that repaying program is going to fly.


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't think Gloria has to try too hard. Trump does not seem like a hands-off type of guy


----------



## chimuelo

No hes not, and where are all the chicks from Vegas?

He was all over the town throwing money back in the 90s.
Steve Wynn and him were arch enemies.
He tried to keep Trump out but after years of litigation Trump won over the Gaming Board.

Told him only 64 stories, we ended up doing 99.
Wynn was so pissed off he built a mountain by the Wynn Valet just so customers wouldnt get out of thier cars then look across the street at the giant Trump sign...

Now he will just be known as the guy who destroyed the GOP for the Clintons.


----------



## chimuelo

What a crazy election.
Only 2 more weeks of this torturous cycle.

I do have a few memorirs of Trump though that were hilarious.
The description of Kasich eating pancakes was choice.

But my favorite eas a fellow musician from OTown was all excited about going to a Bernie rally in Vallejo.
The mayor and others spoke and just as the crowd cheered Bernie coming on stage 2 Cessna prop planes buzzed the rally for 30 minutes drowning out Bernie.
Each with those Coney Island style banners.
One said Bernies history, the other says vote for Trump.

Everytime I think of that I laugh my ass off.

The world must know were nuts by now.


----------



## chimuelo

Latest from Tulsi.
This is the future where you know every couple of weeks what a candidate wants to stand for.
Then organize.
During the comments period of any merger citizens are allowed to petition.
Never knew this.

This is the only candidate I know of who doesnt beg you for money every damn time they want to "share" something with you.
Yuze guys should sign on and just see what she is trying to do.
HRC had better do some good, so women like Jane Kim and Tulsi G. get a shot.
___________________________________________________
Chimuelo,

It is dangerous for a handful of billionaire-owned companies to consolidate to the point where our media (and content) is owned and controlled by a select few, while discouraging competition and raising rates on consumers.

*Already, 90 percent of the channels—from HBO to ESPN to MSNBC—are controlled by the same six networks.*

And now, AT&T and Time Warner are proposing a_$85.4 billion merger_ that I fear will increase costs for consumers, reduce choice and competition, threaten net neutrality, and risk union jobs and wages for thousands of employees.

The only people that benefit from this deal are the shareholders and CEOs who always have the most to gain by these kinds of massive mergers.

*Bigger is not always better.* Further consolidation of the media could hurt millions of American consumers, which is why I’m asking:

*Can you sign our petition to the FCC and the Justice Department calling on them to take immediate action to block the disastrous merger of AT&T and Time Warner?*

This deal would place too much power in the hands of a powerful few and leave the American people with limited choices. *It’s very concerning.*

AT&T is already first in the nation as a provider of pay TV—thanks to their 2015 acquisition of DirecTV—and it is the second-largest wireless company and third-largest broadband provider in the country, per _The Los Angeles Times_.

That means this merger will put their competitors at an unfair disadvantage in the market because they can favor content they own. That is anti-competitive—and will hurt consumers, as well as start-up content providers, who have historically been the ones hurt by such monopolies.

*Both Republicans and Democrats—Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump—have expressed concerns about this merger.*

This is not a partisan issue. It never should be when it comes to protecting consumers. But we know that special interest groups and lobbyists will be descending upon Washington to ensure this merger succeeds, which is why it is important we start mobilizing and putting the pressure on the FCC and Justice Department now—before it’s too late.

*Add your name to our petition calling on the FCC and Justice Department to block the AT&T and Time Warner merger.*


----------



## NYC Composer

As an investor in AT&T and a student of monopolistic practices, I am reasonably sure this deal will pass scrutiny, but I won't bother boring anyone. If you have some interest in matters of financial investment, please PM me.

Chim, can you speak to the single issue of birtherism for a few sentences?


----------



## chimuelo

Sure.
As long as you keep it to one ism and don't start getting all Liberally and shit....


----------



## NYC Composer

So you're willing but don't want me to respond?


----------



## chimuelo

What is the definition of birtherism?


----------



## NYC Composer

The theory, unsupported by any fact, that our President was not native born and therefore illegitimate, that he is suspected of being a secret Muslim- and all of that is used as a tactic to gin up white American nationalism against the first mixed race President in history.


----------



## chimuelo

I see.
Wouldnt it be easier to say Birth Certificatism?
Dont really get the suffix -er- much less the suffix ism, which insinuates the subject is larger than it actually is?
Perhaps it was inflated to include a new category of victimhood?
A favorite Liberal passtime....


----------



## NYC Composer

Perhaps it was purely racist-a favorite alt-right pastime?


----------



## chimuelo

Really?
Sid Blumenthal is the Soros butler and Clinton henchmen.
Never figured him as an Alt Right.
But they do have thier public positions for the Sheep, then different positions for thier investors.

And FWIW AT&T is a steady 8% pay.
Over diversification is what worries me.
Hate to see them drop to 6 points and cede market share to T Mobile.

But like Tulsi G. always siding with people as we know less competition, benefits Liberals and investors, while providing shittier services and goods for consumers.
VA, ACA, Public Schools, etc. etc.

What do you think about Elizabeth Warrens fantastic job of protecting little people with her lame oversight and regulations?
They dont work as Wells Fargo got caught by an LA Times journalist.
Dodd Frank is like gun free zones.
SEC couldnt find anything wrong with Madoff either.
What I see is these regulations burdenning small businesses and banks as they are the usual one size fits all, so small guys get crushed and bigger and bigger giants now can gobble up the small guys dirt cheap.

Its always those damn unintended Liberal consequences which never have an effect on those selling the legislation.

Heard her ferocious I am woman, hear me roar (until I get pregnant and need subsidies) drivel today.
Just another protector of the tiny people gaming the system.

Her angry voice sounds like Jimmy Stewart having a stroke.


----------



## NYC Composer

So you refuse to address the question I asked. I see you've learned how to be a politician. Congrats!


----------



## chimuelo

Address what?
Ask a question, if I feel I have enough information to form an opinion Ill share it with you.


----------



## NYC Composer

"Chim, can you speak to the single issue of birtherism for a few sentences?"


----------



## chimuelo

Sure.
Let me research the Clintons campaign strategy in 2008, then check Donalds timeline to see why it was such a big deal.
Then Ill be better informed.


----------



## NYC Composer

Right, because you have no present opinion. Well, I'll wait right >>>here.


----------



## chimuelo

I concluded Bill was mad about losing in 2008, talked DJT into pursuing this since he was called a racist, then they discussed the strategy we watched unfold/implode since 2015.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Well Chim, at least you've found a new ridiculous idea to copy/paste.


----------



## NYC Composer

...and then he pursued it for 8 years. So you don't see the birther movement as racist, just an honest quest to find out "what the hell is going on."


----------



## chimuelo

Perhaps a slight tinge of religiouscist mixed with a little of the phobe family...most likely that foul son of Ishmael known as Islama.

See I'm getting that Liberal thang than down better.
Almost an entire paragraph to explain in more detail "lying liberal."


----------



## NYC Composer

or maybe it was a calculation, like heck I'm a white racist, maybe I can find a whole bunch of people like me and try to get a lot of money out of them.


----------



## chimuelo

Well Bill does seem to be a great fundraiser.
I'd still need more evidence before drawing conclusions about the former President being a racist.


----------



## NYC Composer

But none to conclude that Donald Trump is and has been since the 70s.


----------



## chimuelo

Of course hes a racist.
All Americans are racists.
I think Mexicans and Canadians are racists too.
Pretty sure Russians and Chinese too.
Never see any brothas in the Politburo or even in Russian uniforms....

We should shame them at the UN.
Then theyll see what its like to be an American.


----------



## NYC Composer

But he's no more racist than the average person. He's just frank, saying what people really think, right?

Here's the flaw in that theory-*I* don't think those things or agree with them. I find them odious, and so do a lot of people. This bullshit false equivalence you're always trying to sell is exactly that-bullshit. Everyone is somewhat racist? Sure. Everyone is a virulent, repugnant racist/opportunist using race cynically to gin up a base of racists? No.


----------



## chimuelo

So Clinton and Blumenthal are racists too right?
Or just the guy you hate...

Much more important things to tend to than the endless racial jive used in every election by Liberals over and over.

I guess if my fake crusade to change the world resulted in sanctuary cities and liberal ghettos Id be looking for fault somewhere else too.


----------



## NYC Composer

It's always equivalence in your world. That way you can always "Trump" any argument. You never have to deal with a question, you just set up an equivalence .You're never wrong. You always have the superior argument, which is the most cynical argument of all:

"It's all the same."


----------



## G.R. Baumann

All the good people at CAP....

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/26...-doubling-down-on-anti-iran-pro-saudi-policy/

Cool thing is, the author himself used to work at CAP.


----------



## NYC Composer

Fine. Tell us you prefer Trump, or shut the hell up.it's a binary choice.

Btw, are you a citizen? Will you be voting? Or are you just making noise?


----------



## Soundhound

It seems to me not a question of whether Trump is racist or not. (He is of course. He learned it, as he learned everything, from his repulsive father.) The point I feel is that he's willing to cynically use the racism rampant in the right wing to get votes. Just like he's willing to use anti-abortion sentiment, xenophobia and all the other lovely things that Rush Limbaugh and Fox News have nurtured for the last 30 years. If he thought the available market niche was fighting global warming, he'd be all over it. He's a sociopath, he has no empathy, he could give a shit what the effects of his actions are. 

The part he's playing is Archie Bunker on steroids, and it goes over with ignorant people like gangbusters. Trump isn't the problem, he's a symptom. He is the creation of the radical right wing.


----------



## NYC Composer

Not to quote myself or anything, but:

"Everyone is a virulent, repugnant racist/opportunist using race cynically to gin up a base of racists?"

(okay, I guess I just did )


----------



## chimuelo

Why do yuze guys keep crying about racism?
Tired arguments used by losers.
HRC has been selected so start acting like winners instead of whiners.
Talk about how great Obamacare 2 is going to be.
Or how we can chip in and buy those Liberal geniuses a copy of MacAfee AntiVirus....


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Enough! 

The other way around Larry, I shut you up. Take a seat, welcome on my ignore list. Might feel a bit lonely there, not much company at the moment. Have a productive day!


----------



## chimuelo

So you joined Larry's thread then put him on the ignore list...
Definitely productivity neutral..


----------



## G.R. Baumann

uhhh.... Larry's thread, mea culpa. LOL I gently told him not to run his mouth on every single post I made concerning US politics in his stereotype manner. 

A chap who succeeds to tell me to shut up when I voice my opinion is not yet born.

However, not important, this thread is full of shit anyways. Hardly a serious discussion on important global issues.


----------



## Soundhound

Bauman, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Bye now.

Jimmy, the reason we keep hollering about it is the damage that's been done. There are Hillary For Prison signs on my street. The Times has an article this morning about people not accepting the outcome of the election. The right wing propaganda has poisoned a lot of people. It kind of sucks.

It's a volatile situation. Trump has taken the public's well founded anger over inequality in the system and mixed it with the virulent racism, homophobia, xenophobia and anti semitism that right wing media has been promoting for decades. It's ugly and dangerous.


----------



## chimuelo

Folks who prosper from division fear anyone who does a better job of dividing than they do.
So let these profiteers prosper for another 4 years.
Thanks to Sanders, Trump and Putin/wikileaks Americans know the truth now.
No longer a vast right wing conspiracy theory.

Your candidates are preselected, thier odious greed and corruption for cash has been protected by corrupted Federal Agencies, even a corrupt Executive branch.

These two wings belong to the same bird of prey.
It protects and serves itself.
If your lucky scraps from their Chateaubriande and sips from thier Dom Perignon will be left on the table for their servants.

For the next 4 years Wealthy Liberals will be an endangered species, soon to be extinct.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

chim, what happened to you to make you this way? Does Mr. Wealthy Liberal Bogeyman hide under your bed at night?

You do know that he's no more real than zombies, right, that it's just a story people tell children around the campfire?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> Why do yuze guys keep crying about racism?



Seriously? You really have no idea what "Make America Great Again" actually means?


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah.
Have rich white Liberals free thier slaves.
Let them leave these Liberal ghettos behind, as they're paved over with more Trump Towers.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm going to miss Georg. He was always such a bucket of cheer.

Nick makes a good point, Chim, and as always I disagree with your "pre-selected" narrative. This thing is way too close. Anyway Nick's right...the barely unspoken reality of "Make America White Again" could not POSSIBLY have escaped you.


----------



## chimuelo

To me it's a slogan.

To a paranoid Liberal it means whatever MSNBC tells them, or the SinaloanTimes says.

I'd rather see giant penis drones fly above these people pissing down on them as they speak.

For the cheering Sheep all holding the signs handed to them, Fecal Matter slung down on them by a giant spinning Drone that looks like Gamerah, Godzillas old friend.


----------



## NYC Composer

To a pissed off white lower middle class guy, it says the same as "we're gonna take back our country." Ummm..from who?


----------



## chimuelo

From foreigners funneling billions through their wealthy white Liberals, and the complex border less world.


----------



## NYC Composer

Yes, your average voter thinks deeply about these issues. Are you kidding me?

You don't ask yourself why Trump voters seem to be overwhelming white and male? It's a coincidence? You think anti-globalism is their focus? Most of America can't name the continents. The rest of the world is an obscurity to most of them. They care about jobs, money, religion, local culture, cars, THEIR free stuff and how somebody else might be cutting in line ahead of them.


----------



## chimuelo

Those damn Union/Liberal/Federal/Globalist free schools should maybe try Math, Reading and writing instead of gender studies.
See, now we're stuck with white racists, and liberals shooting everybody over drugs.

Guess us hispanics will just have to save America from Liberals and Conservatives, before they do to us what they've done on a global scale....


----------



## NYC Composer

Calling murderers "liberals" is way too stupid for someone as bright as you.


----------



## chimuelo

Here's where the truth in journalism can be found.


----------



## NYC Composer

What scares me is that it looks like you actually bought it.


----------



## chimuelo

Of course.
In election cycles most Americans who care view ALL investigative jounalism.
NE has stringent vetting as you well know they are sued when they print lies.
Unlike Liberal and Conservative media.
They get "leaks" from Washington lobbyists, bag men, aides, etc.

For example, the NYTimes was totally protected by DC when they helped send millions of Americans to Iraq for those weapons of mass destruction.
They cant be sued, they were (paid) lied to so speading "leaks" is a valid act of journalism.

Theyre not the ones to go round spreading rumors,
Theyre really not the gossiping kind,
Youll never hear the Times repeating gossip,
So you better be sure and listen close the first time.....


----------



## NYC Composer

When the alien invasion begins, you'll be well prepared.


----------



## chimuelo

When they come Ill serenade them with Etudes or Impromptus.
Theyll think Im intelligent compared to these morons in Washington that hand strange green pieces of paper amongst themselves at the end of conversations....


----------



## NYC Composer

Keep your aluminum foil hat with the antenna on so you can communicate.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

"It's all the same."[/QUOTE]


Nick Batzdorf said:


> chim, what happened to you to make you this way? Does Mr. Wealthy Liberal Bogeyman hide under your bed at night?
> 
> You do know that he's no more real than zombies, right, that it's just a story people tell children around the campfire?


The hypocrisy of you saying this would be funny, if not so pathetic. You have invented a fantasy world in which all Republican politicians and voters are evil and in which Hillary Clinton is actually suitable for president.


----------



## chimuelo

National Enquirer says gmail account of Combetta was used to transfer folders of the bleach bit storage devices used by the Foundation/HRC/State Department.
If I were a google employee or NSA Agent I would send acopy of the folder to the Clintons and ask for 400,000,000 in Swiss Francs.
Liberals prefer untracable money.


----------



## Soundhound

It's amazing to me how insane right wing people can say Hillary Clinton isn't suitable to be president. Right wing propaganda is incredibly powerful.


----------



## chimuelo

When you take multi million dollar retainers in advance like this you must have been suitable, plus able to let everyone but Putin in on the fake election.
She's over qualified, but you'd think folks would be concerned about her vengeance she will surely exact on her enemies.
This is where you'll notice Trump becomes the anti corruption reality star free from government interference.
I'm worried about how Putin has embarrassed Obama and her so badly we have some serious conflicts over this.
I'm well aware of greed and lust for power structures in the USA.
We have father son Presidential Libraries and Foundations, husband and wife Presidential Libraries seem in order.

A Trump win means Gulf States so betrayed after such assurances they would call Putin and ask for a partnership with them running OPEC having self defense treaties, 
Mexico and China will have a field day.
Most people don't know who paid for the Rosarita Super Highway that ships a large amount of Chinese goods into the USA.
One would need to know the purpose of the Long Shoresmen Strikes to understand how Chinese exports are so immense Long Beach (which they own) can't even service the vast amounts that come to the USA.

Pay no attention to fake polls, fake outrage, etc.
The race was over long time ago.


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> It's amazing to me how insane right wing people can say Hillary Clinton isn't suitable to be president. Right wing propaganda is incredibly powerful.


That doesn't surprise me at all. It is, after all, a cat vs dog world. My team/your team.

This is the first election I've ever been part of where it amazes me that even conservatives see any sort of equivalence. She's 100 times smarter, way more experienced and doesn't suggest sedition if she loses, nor suggest that her followers might need to take her opponent out.


----------



## chimuelo

Even Micheal Moore has Liberal hatchlings trembling now.
Everyone is in on the take except us Sheep.


----------



## Soundhound

It is pretty stunning. The depth of irrational fear and ignorance that right wing propaganda has created in republicans has crippled an entire generation. They don't know what's going on, their entire worldview is a complete fantasy. It's really, really dangerous. 



NYC Composer said:


> That doesn't surprise me at all. It is, after all, a cat vs dog world. My team/your team.
> 
> This is the first election I've ever been part of where it amazes me that even conservatives see any sort of equivalence. She's 100 times smarter, way more experienced and doesn't suggest sedition if she loses, nor suggest that her followers might need to take her opponent out.


----------



## chimuelo

Wikileaks was a Liberal favorite for truth and justice.
Suddenly it's right wing propaganda?
That's a laugh.

HRC knew she was going to hacked and was a step ahead.
She used wikileaks from what I can see.
Yuze guys don't see any GOP hacks do you?
Seems somebody left the door open.

Then notice the slough of books all written in the last 2 months.
Serious risky business for a publisher.
Vetting for legal reasons alone takes months to verify.

I must say all fake media has both wings and thier flocks bamboozled.

Everything, including victims, all perfectly timed..

Schedules.must be maintained..


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> The hypocrisy of you saying this would be funny, if not so pathetic. You have invented a fantasy world in which all Republican politicians and voters are evil and in which Hillary Clinton is actually suitable for president.



Michael, here you go:

http://www.apa.org/index.aspx

In the term they call it projection.

By the way, I don't think all Republican politicians and voters are evil, just most of them. Some are stupid, some are ignorant, others are uninformed, or disinformed, mentally lazy, or - as I suspect in your case - tribal (members of a toilet club, and they don't need to think for themselves). Some or all of those.


----------



## Soundhound

Who said anything about Wikileaks? I'm talking about right wing radio, Fox News, etc. But you knew that, you're just obfuscating. (I got a word a day calendar last xmas.)



chimuelo said:


> Wikileaks was a Liberal favorite for truth and justice.
> Suddenly it's right wing propaganda?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Michael, here you go:
> 
> http://www.apa.org/index.aspx
> 
> In the term they call it projection.


What do you think I'm projecting?


----------



## chimuelo

Soundhound said:


> Who said anything about Wikileaks? I'm talking about right wing radio, Fox News, etc. But you knew that, you're just obfuscating. (I got a word a day calendar last xmas.)



Who listens to the radio?
People like options, not advertisements.

Wikileaks is cool because you get weeks of news in a single dump.
But if it was really meant to destroy HRC why not release it during the FBI investigation?
Makes little sense to release it so late where its chances to have any effect are greatly diminished.


----------



## NYC Composer

Why release it then? She had plenty to deal with. Better to release as the election got closer, in curated dumps.


----------



## chimuelo

According to the timeline of the hackings they could have released Hillarys Wall Street transcripts where she assures her investors that they can continue on unabated.
Sanders would have knocked her off then.

Then the hearings about Benghazzi, Congress would have loved those emails to bolster thier case.

OTOH The foundation got some hefty millions for selling 20% of our Uranium reserves, and we see our infrastructure money went to a Silicon Valley sister city which ended up making Rockets instead of chips.

Sure seems like they would love her as President.
I always work hardest when paid more, its natural.


----------



## NYC Composer

And the documented and certified proof of your allegations is where?


----------



## chimuelo

Allegation? I inferred nothing other than the timeline to crush HRC doesnt add up.
I realize protecting your Queen is important but this is simple analysis and it confuses me.
Theres really no sense to it but its great entertainment, just like Trump is entertaining, doing his job rather well.
If youvwanted to really finish her off you would have done it long ago, and surely not while early voting has aleady started.
Its as silly as the FBI waiting for Friday afternoons for thier final press release.
Everyone involved in this just seems to have timing and cash.

Thats the winning ticket.


----------



## NYC Composer

She's not my Queen and you're not my definer, but thanks for playing. 

I was talking about the certified truth regarding the things you speak of as fact. Was you dere, Cholly?


----------



## chimuelo

The timeline is there.
Subpeons issued followed by Foundation lawyers deciding which emails were Government and private early March 2015.
We are reading email correspondence Russia had even earlier than that, if it is the Russians.
The campaign managers were finding out Hillary was hiding something from them as correspondance shows thier concern.
Opposition reasearch means digging through YOUR candidates personal life since your discoveries prepare them for what they think will be coming thier way.
Even they didnt realize what she was hiding.
But thefes no escaping the timeline.
Wikileaks had these documents and sat on them, or so it would seem.
So to not help Sanders win makes no sense.

To allow not a single leak during Congressional testimony, or make it impossible for the FBI to avoid calling for a Grand Jury.
Im just saying if Putin is really doing this he had numerous oppurtunities.
Saving the best after early voting starts is totally ineffective.

As Fred Thompson told Alec Baldwin.....Your average Russian doesnt take a dump without having a plan.


----------



## Soundhound

Where's that meme of Moe smacking Curly on the head when I need it. The point was people who listen to right wing radio and watch Fox News have been programmed to believe complete fallacies. To the point where they think Hillary Clinton should be in jail and Donald Trump wants to save them from big corporations. Kurt Vonnegut couldn't have made this shit up.



chimuelo said:


> Who listens to the radio?
> People like options, not advertisements.
> 
> Wikileaks is cool because you get weeks of news in a single dump.
> But if it was really meant to destroy HRC why not release it during the FBI investigation?
> Makes little sense to release it so late where its chances to have any effect are greatly diminished.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm just glad the Illuminati chose the right candidate.


----------



## chimuelo

Usual parrot replies.
Fox News wishes they had vision, like their competition they follow scripts and orders.

At least my drug inducced hallucinations have original concepts.
I view these incidents as a song.
Return via Coda to the beginning, mark coincidents and variations.
Hell even Hillary was Michele Obamas opening act.
Hillary had a solo at an Adele concert.
Bill was too out of practice to sit in with Bon Jovi.
Hell Bon Jovi was too old to draw a crowd.

So as the Sheep follow thier media Shepards pointed fingers, fake polls, I have fun watching SNL and reviewing the score.

Yuze guys like getting mad and stare at Fox News or Britefart, Ill have fun applying music theory.
But thanks for the mentioning of Britefart, I did find an incredible rabid hottie nsmed Tomi Lahren.
Figures too shes a Navy Seal prospect.
Those guys replaced rock stars, they actually get stalked by hot babes....

Keep me informed on new polls though, saves me from having to give these bull shit outlets another ratings hit.

I know I can always count on a Liberal forum for parroted info.


----------



## Soundhound

So Fox News and right wing radio aren't full of shit? I think I figured this out. You work for Aisles and your job is just to annoy the fuck out of people on the left by conflating right wing cliches and changing the subject every 10 seconds. Sort of an ADD Newt Gingrich. The point is to never actually say anything, be randomly insulting, and just make it all up as you go along to prevent any coherent trail.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Oh shit a brick! Hillary's team must have wondered what just happened.


----------



## chimuelo

Hey maybe Trump and Clinton will step down.
Then we pick between two Pro Life candidates.
One Conservative, the other a Jesuit Gun Runner...


----------



## chimuelo

Wow, if HRC survives this she will be known to walk on water.

If hackers are so good wikileaks will share texts and emails between the WHouse and DNC for the last 24 hours.

At the end of the day though they should easily get pardonned and call off the dogs.


----------



## Baron Greuner

This is almost a 'stand down' moment.

I can understand why the FBI have done this now. Why? Because further down the road, either in the interim between November and January, OR, after January, many heads would roll at the FBI if they got caught out and had not acted.

Very bad news for the democrats.


----------



## NYC Composer

Celebrate, celebrate, dance to the music!


----------



## Baron Greuner

She's talking at Cedar Rapids ATM and hasn't even mentioned it.

She may fckd!

Not by me you understand. I DID NOT, AND NEVER WILL HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN!

She just said she likes making lists and then crossing things off. 

She also likes to cross off 33000 emails right!


----------



## NYC Composer

Ooo-maybe it wasn't rigged after all! Or could it be that it's been rigged for .....DJT!!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Certainly not by the FBI.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Comey is a disgrace. I didn't like the way he put it in his first announcement - deliberately leaving ambiguity, when she's blatantly innocent of wrongdoing.


----------



## chimuelo

I think Obama will pardon her and everything will be fine.
Id ask for a 100,000,000 dollar donation to the Obama Presidential Library.
Then have Anthony Weiner jailed.


----------



## Baron Greuner

She never mentioned it once in her Cedar Rapids speech.

She should now stand down.

If this was the UK that would be almost mandatory.

Mind you, in France they would probably give you a medal and just say go vacation with a mistress of your choice and come back refreshed.

Say you guys, ran across something called Elizabth Warren on the TV the other day. Is she a lesbian?


----------



## chimuelo

Sure changes my Bill/DJT agreement theory.

Damn, Im getting that bad feeling that torments so many guys here about having Trump as a groper in chief.....
Melania would have power as the First Lady to get revenge on all the Strippers Gloria Alred auditioned...


----------



## Baron Greuner

A load of Americans on benefits have just told a Sky reporter, who quite naturally has gone into immediate denial, have all stated they still judge Hillary on her track record and will vote for her.

You Americans on benefits don't seem to understand! Track records don't mean jack shit if you're being investigated by the FBI. Hello?????

Wakey Wakey!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Jimmy, the FBI aren't going to investigate Trump because he touched a porn star's ass.

Hillary? Different ball game.

Boy, this election had become a bit boring. Got to hand it to the Yanks. They know how to keep the entertainment levels going.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Comey is a disgrace. I didn't like the way he put it in his first announcement - deliberately leaving ambiguity, when she's blatantly innocent of wrongdoing.



Congratulations! You just won a prize for being the first to go into denial.

You won't be the last.


----------



## Soundhound

For chrissake gentlemen, it's 10 days before the election. And you're buying this blatant political hack job? It really isn't just a river in Egypt after all. 

Everyone who's swallowing this please post your addresses so I can send you a subscription to Reader's Digest for xmas. Give the right gifts to the right people, it shows you care!


----------



## chimuelo

My sources tell me Lynch was promised free education for grand children, and like most Liberals senses a Trump win.
A simple reminder to have the Foundation pay the tuition fees NOW, as she surely knows there's no openings on Law & Order as Chief Of Dees, and Trump will fire her.
Better cover your ass amongst so many rats and vermin....


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy was right all along, there WAS a conspiracy. The careful
email dump--Wiki, Russian hackers, the complicit FBI-it was all rigged for his Overlord, the moron Trump. Probably by Russia to destroy America. Man, those Illuminati are subtle. Amazing how many new sheep are being sheared- having to trade in their old, wrong conspiracy theories.


----------



## chimuelo

Mexican Sheep are also trembling.

The fear of a Trump victory crashed the Cocaine/Heroin based Peso.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Pulling the wool out from over your eyes, Jimmy?


----------



## chimuelo

A short clipping, nothing serious since Obama will pardon her.
I don't even think voters care at this point.
Won't be surprised that Weiner gets a pardon too.

He's only trying the help the little people.
He just prefers really little people, literally.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Jimmy, the FBI aren't going to investigate Trump because he touched a porn star's ass.
> 
> Hillary? Different ball game.
> 
> Boy, this election had become a bit boring. Got to hand it to the Yanks. They know how to keep the entertainment levels going.


You're really going to enjoy the new regime, Hadrian, er, Adrian. Lessee-

1. You've Brexited. No love from your European neighbors.

2. Trump hates NATO. Wants to de-fund. Hmm.

3. Trump loves Putin. Once they got done carving up the world, I wonder what sort of slice there will be for dear old Blighty? Oh wait-you'll still have the City of London trying to hornswoggle the planet with financial shenanigans, and there's always your fearsome armada.

Meanwhile there will be a blithering idiot across the pond making your decisions for you-better go along to get along and hope for the best.

Obama is what the world looks like with measured responses. Can't wait to see the world in a few years-let me know when nostalgia starts to overwhelm you.

Your grave new world and welcome to it.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> Got to hand it to the Yanks. They know how to keep the entertainment levels going



Isn't it hilarious? The only thing more amusing would be porno films with babies.


----------



## Baron Greuner

The world watches, slightly opened mouthed, at the election that just keeps on giving.

People of America! Have no fear! Hillary is confident!


----------



## chimuelo

Actually researched all night long even watching MSNBC where I must admit Rachel Maddow had the fairest report put together Ive ever seen her do.
Of course its always the guests and thier obvious bias that does the dirty work.
Hannity is just a rabid dog.
Had one of the prettiest vengeful judges I ever saw.
She makes Judge Judy look like a kind patient soul.

I conclude this will not have an effect on the Clinton machine vrs. Trump Cable folks.
But the downticket Dems are toast.

HRC will serve over a GOP Majority and we can be bored with 2 more years of investigations out smarted by David Kendell and DLA Piper.

Poor Huma.
A competent honest loyal soldier will have a bright future ended trying to save her Queen.

Shell get a gig at the foundation until the IRS makes makes the investors pay taxes on thier investments as it will lose its non profit status.

All because of mans purest emotion embedded from our hunter gathering days, greed.


----------



## NYC Composer

I thought women's purest emotion was that of nurturer and emotional connector for doglike men.


----------



## chimuelo

Conservative female sex fiends, best described in Bernie Sanders Thesis from College, a weapon Team Clinton had in reserve in case anyone got any ideas.

Especially enjoy topics like the need for escape proof heels in fashion.


----------



## chimuelo

Larry you should research Professor Caroline Heldman in SoCal.
She really made me feel shame with her convincing analogies and arguments.
Shes pretty cute too, not the usual crew cut and foaming mouth types.
Intelligent and persuasive.
Always liked Ashley Judds views too about giving away the bride and other traditions we seem to take decades changing.


----------



## chimuelo

Do you think Weiners possible theft of Humas emails for leverage is whats behind this?
Strictly my opinion but he is a desperate man with a disgusting incurable impedemint.

Huma just trying to save the Queen. She did wrong but what a valuable advisor.
Risked everything, but knowing possible pardons are in hand does motivate darker motives.

When Cortez reached the New World he burned his ships.
Thus motivating success of his men.


----------



## NYC Composer

She speaks up for women ground up in the rape culture. Good, someone should.

I think hunter/gatherer and home keeper/nurturer roles were fine back in the day. The field is of choices is a little broader now. I have no problem with people who want to adhere to traditional roles, but I was brought up by a working mother and I married a working woman. Times have changed some.

Btw Jimmy, did your extensive research involve you finding the texts of these emails?


----------



## chimuelo

Agreed.
That is where my admiration for Conservatism and intelectual needs for Liberalism begins.
Women must do it all for the sake of the species.
The problems begin when a minority of people try and force changes that would in normal circumstance change naturally.
Anti Government folks like me are the ones who want a natural order to occur.
The reasons are simple.
When the ruling class forces itself on us turmoil occurs, now what would have naturally occured takes longer as the process was interupted.

Conservatives and Liberals are great until they get too much power.
Leave us the fuck alone.
Americans usually do the right thing when all other avenues have been exhausted.
People must be allowed to fail.
Its called learning.

The reason Ive always paid my wives not to live with me is over our struggles of raising children and learning failure.
This results in children learning how to con both parents whicb better prepares them for life.


----------



## NYC Composer

But Jimmy-the ruling class has always ruled and always will. The least rule-ish probably happens in socialist countries-Finland, Norway, Sweden, etc.


----------



## chimuelo

Baloney.
The ruling class only really controls the poorest.
Middle class Americans chose hard work and private schools.
By destroying the income of the middle class and using trade, this forces Americans into the federal liberal predatory loans for an education, only needed now since the days of getting out of high school and becoming an auto worker or union tradesmen are over.

Their ways of shipping Americas true strength abroad just so they can control thier power structure is what will cause a revolution.
Surely bernie and trumps record supporters verifies that.


----------



## NYC Composer

You know Jimmy, I can see this 11th hr black swan has sobered you a little, because now you see what I've seen all along-this fucking idiot could very well become President. You wanted it all to blow up-you may get your wish, but you didn't really see this coming, did you? Chilling prospect, isn't it? This guy is no champion of the common people. He's a fully inflated buffoon without a thought in his head. He has a sort of native cunning and he's a dozen times more corrupt than she is. I'd call him immoral if I thought he knew what that meant. He has no moral center, no code, no honor. His treatment of women is just a symptom of his inherent ethical bankruptcy. He's also a pompous scarecrow-Putin is going to spit roast him after giving him a symbolic victory or two. 

You didn't want this. Best pray it's too late for him. She's careless and probably casually corrupt. He's a dangerous know nothing moron who's gonna get stuffed and slaughtered, taking all of us with him. Compared to the "rigged system", please hope we get rigged.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Baloney.
> The ruling class only really controls the poorest.
> Middle class Americans chose hard work and private schools.
> By destroying the income of the middle class and using trade, this forces Americans into the federal liberal predatory loans for an education, only needed now since the days of getting out of high school and becoming an auto worker or union tradesmen are over.
> 
> Their ways of shipping Americas true strength abroad just so they can control thier power structure is what will cause a revolution.
> Surely bernie and trumps record supporters verifies that.


When I was a kid it had already started. "Made in Japan."


----------



## NYC Composer

Now I'ma sleep. Thanks for the heads up on Heldman.


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah, but Gibson would have never made my CS80....

The way to avoid being sucked into the Federal black hole of dependence is analytical skills or guidance to hard work ethics.

I see the NKorean Cuban Venezuelan jive and want no part of it.
You cant follow your passion because somebody thinks you need thier health care or gender awareness degree.
Next well see thousands of global warming scientists selling life insurance because we dont need them to tell us climate can change.

Go scuba diving in Okinawa or the Bahamas.
100 feet down is where the water was 15,000 years ago.
Then indigenous people discoveted fire.
Since then weve been foked....
Damn Cave men got lazy and watched food grow as they killed the enviroment burning stuff.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> Shes pretty cute too, not the usual crew cut and foaming mouth types.



You mean like Elizabeth Warren? Cheesus Jimmy, what aa fucking old cow she is!


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Nice. Enlightened.


----------



## Soundhound

Jimmy you found the answer! You just saw it in the looking glass and so have it exactly backwards:

The problem is when a minority (religious fundamentalists, the christian right wing, tea party, taliban, isis, the modern republican party, newt gingrich et al) try to impede progressive changes which are occurring naturally.

That is what's been going on since Ronald Reagan laid the groundwork by mesmerizing the right wing with fantasies of John Wayne rugged individualism designed to hand unfettered power over to corporations.




chimuelo said:


> Agreed.
> 
> The problems begin when a minority of people try and force changes that would in normal circumstance change naturally.


----------



## Soundhound

Somebody needs to write a book about right wing men's fear of women. Babes are required in all facets of life, women who they aren't sexually attracted to are not fit for office. It would need a quasi-novelistic title, I propose 'Grabbing Pussy'. 

Growing up in the 60s and 70s I'd have thought we'd be past this kind of ignorant, infantile, primitive thinking by now. But thanks to the regression of American culture, it's the 1950s all over again.

Btw I think Elizabeth Warren is very attractive. She's in her mid sixties now, and our genetic programming drives us to younger women. But take a look at pictures of her 10/20 years ago. As Jon Stewart said to her, 'you're the high school history teacher we all had a crush on.' Or something like that.


----------



## chimuelo

Use to like Warren when she was going after Biden and other wealthy white Liberals (fake).

Learning her devious ways of claiming heritage of a minority so she could be a victim bothered me, but it was the coronation she received and 2 extra incomes covered by tax payers to make her an accomplice in the fleecing of tax payers by wealthy Liberals (fake). Big Universities are told by wealthy donors to assign people salaries, and nice and lawery legal like, then we cover the bill, plus the student debt from Liberal Predatory lenders.

A final vote cast on the ACA was held back so the "Public servant" Senator got to use his bank for the collection purposes.

Warrens useless Agency that didn't catch Wells Fargo, and when the investigative journalist from LA Times did, the CEO skates with 140,000,000 just becuase Liberal Billionaire Buffet is the Banks largest shareholder.
These useless fools couldn't find a hooker in a whore house, according to them Bernie Madoff was clean since Liberals were profiting from his scams....

And Yes SHound Reagans Evangelicals are just a voting block now, and delegated to local lawmakers where they over look way too much stuff.
But I prefer a State decide what they wish as law unless it's criminal statutes.
For example in Utah the Mormon Church is almighty, in Nevada too since Harry Reid is a Mormon, but a jack Mormon.

This way if wealthy whites wish to replace God they can move to NYC, or Cali, or another state that suits their needs.

Then down the road people can look and say hey these guys are fairing way better than we are, lets take their lead.

The idea of criminals and billionaires even foreigners telling me what I MUST DO is bull shit.
I voted them in and I will vote their pansy asses out when I choose.

As long as the system isn't rigged like the Liberals are now saying....

ANkyu


----------



## NYC Composer

I wonder how much of this crap the Baron sez to Mrs. Baron.

On the other hand, maybe she's a 22 year old stripper with great assets and knows her place.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Has Hillary stood down yet?

I want Bernie to get the nomination and see how long it takes before someone shoots him in the head. OTOH it would be fascinating to see how America was run by a communist.

That would round off this election in spades.


----------



## chimuelo

Hillary is speaking before a small crowd of Liberals that have to show an ID at the "Wall" surrounding the event.
Soundman should get a bonus,
Mixing in sampled Sheep cheering and fake applause, small room algorithim tells me a Midas M Series.

She passed the GOP Drug test after the plane landed.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hahah! 

Is Hillary still wearing those wooly Channel suits? 

I would like to see Bernie get some decent clothes. Maybe when Hillary gets to be Presidenti, the Foundation will send Bernie some of Bill's old (preferably unstained) garments.


----------



## Soundhound

I don't want states to decide what they think should be law, especially when they are dominated by regressives. The federal government should run health care so the moronic republican state leaderships can't shoot ACA in the foot. In california the state is playing hardball with the insurance companies and ACA is working great. In red states the prices are going to go up big time. Move to a single payer system like the rest of the civilized world finally, please.

Get rid of the second amendment. Have public funding of elections. Get religion the fuck out of government. Now that we've had a black man as president, and next a woman, the next step is an atheist. Not just an antsiest, an anti-theist in the Hitchens mode. The rest of the civilized world looks at the U.S. now as a dangerous, stupid place. When we can elect someone president who can say out loud they don't believe in god, we'll start to get somewhere. Religion is the great evil of our time, if we want to fight the forces of primitive, divisive, ignorant fundamentalism, we need to start there.


----------



## chimuelo

The US is dangerous and stupid for anyone who relies on the wealthiest white Liberals for a piss poor "free" Union education.
Lets start there before another decade of gender nuetral Liberal hatchlings are created.

The answer to addressing these problems wont come from electing more useless wealthy Liberals and Conservatives.
Poor people and middle class folks wont waste 10 trillion dollars.

Lets elect the stupidest publicly educated Moron we can find.
Bet he'll do better than the dip shits we've watched for the last 8 years.


----------



## Soundhound

List some Liberal dipshits from the last 10 years. I'll see those dipshits and bury you under a pile of right wing dipshits. It ain't no contest.


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah theyre so smart they cant spell AntiVirus or VPN.
Let them return to make believe land at some University so they can teach others how to fail...


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> The US is dangerous and stupid for anyone who relies on the wealthiest white Liberals for a piss poor "free" Union education.
> Lets start there before another decade of gender nuetral Liberal hatchlings are created.
> 
> The answer to addressing these problems wont come from electing more useless wealthy Liberals and Conservatives.
> Poor people and middle class folks wont waste 10 trillion dollars.
> 
> Lets elect the stupidest publicly educated Moron we can find.
> Bet he'll do better than the dip shits we've watched for the last 8 years.


Let's not elect the stupidest Wharton graduate. Thanks.


----------



## NYC Composer

Baron Greuner said:


> Hahah!
> 
> Is Hillary still wearing those wooly Channel suits?
> 
> I would like to see Bernie get some decent clothes. Maybe when Hillary gets to be Presidenti, the Foundation will send Bernie some of Bill's old (preferably unstained) garments.


Is a Channel suit made in Dover?


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh oh.....CHANEL! Never mind.


----------



## Desire Inspires

Just do the hard work and you will succeed too!


----------



## NYC Composer

Profound stuff.


----------



## passsacaglia

Speaking of dresscode, seen this? Haha hillllarious !!!


----------



## Baron Greuner

No, Channel was what I meant.


----------



## chimuelo




----------



## Baron Greuner

One of my publishers has just sent me a video of an American doc where they want similar music for an entire album.

The doc is all about Hillary. So I get the dialogue too. FFS!


----------



## Guy Bacos

Maybe someone could enlighten me here, I'm not American, however, as a Canadian, I follow this very closely and everything that has been said, but I'd like to understand something: In my opinion, Hillary is not less or more corrupted than any other past presidents, just more scrutinized because of today's technology, WikiLeaks, Yahoo news, Google, easy access to home videos=iphones, etc. so why so many people have singled her out as the worst person in the history of the universe? That's the impression I get.

Suddenly "House of Cards" seem so tame.


----------



## Soundhound

Great question. My impression is that she's just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. The right wing fervently loved Ronald Reagan, and when they fell out of power in the 90s they had a national temper tantrum. They felt they were the One True Way and anyone who disagreed with them were heretics. It came to light in New Gingrich's awful, hypocritical, intellectually infantile Contract With America. They shut down the government for absolutely not reason, and have done so repeatedly ever since.

When they lost power in 1992, they decided Bill Clinton was the devil, and when Hillary Clinton tried to get single payer health care through during her husband's first term, she got a target on her back that's been there ever since.

There is absolutely no reason for it. The Clintons have always been lightning rods for the fundamentalist (both political and religious, and in many cases both) right wing. They have never, ever made any of their accusations stick. They have wasted countless amounts of government time and money trying to 'get' the Clintons. 

In short, is has nothing to do with the Clintons. They are, as you say, pretty average political types in how they go about their business. Their background is progressive politics, but they have pretty much operated in the center and center-right since the 90s. But the American right wing is to this country as Isis and the Taliban are to the middle east. They are absolutists: though their economic policies have proved over and over to be hallucinatory and disastrous, they keep pushing for the same things. They are warlike because they are told we are in great danger. 

The right wing is correct in one thing, we are in great danger. But it's not because of any evil foreign power. They themselves are the great danger. They have ruined this country's economy, destroyed it's standing in the world. And like all fundamentalists, they have no capacity for introspection. They blame the left for everything. 





Guy Bacos said:


> Maybe someone could enlighten me here, I'm not American, however, I follow this very closely and everything that has been said, but I'd like to understand something. In my opinion, Hillary is not less or more corrupted than any other past presidents, just more scrutinized because of today's technology, wikileaks for example. so why so many people have singled her out as the worst person in the history of the universe? That's the impression I get.


----------



## chimuelo

If you followed the pointed fingers from the Right and Left Wing, we conclude they're both the same self serving children of the Corporate Global Father.

Sanders was the first Independent to really run as a populist. And while spoiled Left child of the Global Father wants to pretend to be for the people, they fear access to the Trillions in revenue going for anyone other than thier powerful donors and friends.

But this is normal activity of the wealthy Liberals, no different than the other spoiled child of the Global Father, they just have a slightly hipper line of bull shit.

HRC has this wrapped up though.
The Executive branch, all foreign governments, federal agencies are in lock sync.
The recent documents found on the Liberal child molesters laptop has been known about and released after early voting to give the appearance of non political compliance.
The spoiled Left Wing child of the Global Father pretends to be outraged but things are going according to plan.

On another issue the real reason the banished Liberal Congressman is separated from his wife over a misunderstanding.
When the Clinton's were negotiating thier marriage, the Liberal Congressman said he wanted kids.
They thought having children together was what he meant...

Ankyu

A few years ago when Weiner stated females were at thier prime when they were in thier 50s...
Nobody realized he meant pounds...

Ankyu


----------



## Soundhound

And Chim's 'they're all the same' shtick is a favorite of the right wing when making excuses for the travesty that is the republican party. As in 'sure we're corrupt as hell, sure we destroyed the economy and poured gasoline on the hellfire of the middle east, but they're just as bad. They used a non-secure email server. They should be in jail!'

It's the argument made by 6 years olds when caught stealing from the cookie jar. It's nonsensical and entirely unsupportable. The difference only is right wing media has enfeebled 40 million americans to the point that they will believe it. The rest of the world sees it as the nonsense it is, because they don't watch Fox News or listen to Rush Limbaugh.


----------



## chimuelo

The majority of the world has no wings.
Publicly educated indoctrinated Liberal hatchings are told from birth they are special and those who disagree are far right wing nuts.

Truth be told they are a minority.

This is easy to see as both wings win thier rigged primaries, then suddenly beg us free thinkers to elect them since we are the MAJORITY. Not worshippers of these 2 spoiled children and thier Corporate Daddy...


----------



## Soundhound

There's a nice exhibit for you. 'The majority of the world has no wings'. Make shit up, but when you do, make it sound like you know what you're talking about. Much like Trickle Down Economics. It had no support in fact, but Reagan said it like he believed it (he was dumb enough to perhaps have actually believed it). And in the art of acting, conviction is everything.


----------



## chimuelo

Then you and your fake Liberals shouldn't have to beg us for a vote...
If Plantations didn't exist the wealthy whites you worship would be trying to win a case in court in the real world, probably by bribing a jury since even there success is only attained by being a Lying Liberal....


----------



## Soundhound

Like I said, making things up. Blaming liberals for the sins of the right wing. Reagan would send you flowers if he was still around.


----------



## chimuelo

S'all good brotha man SHound.

I'm just compelled when someone outside the USA asks about our spoiled children known as Liberals & Conservatives, that each are represented equally.

I'm not prejudiced.
I find them both equally corrupt and self serving.

I can't even remember the last Conservatives did anything for me.
But Reagan did take away my deductions for travelling to help feed more Liberals, so I do feel good knowing it helped them.


----------



## Soundhound

All good absolutely. As we've gone over till the cows come home, I'm as cynical about the dems as you are. I just think there are good elements in that group that need to be supported. Whereas the best elements in the republicans are basically reaganites, and those policies all failed spectacularly.


----------



## chimuelo

Couldn't agree more.
Both partys have new members I know are being rolled over by corrupt leaders.
Let them retire to thirr all white country clubs, yachts and vineyards.
Make room for new people or risk a 3rd party eliminating them permanently.
Which wouldnt bother me in the least.


----------



## chimuelo

LONDON .......In an unexpected televised address on Saturday, Queen Elizabeth II offered to restore British rule over the United States of America.

Addressing the American people from her office in Buckingham Palace, the Queen said that she was making the offer “in recognition of the desperate situation you now find yourselves in.”

“This two-hundred-and-forty-year experiment in self-rule began with the best of intentions, but I think we can all agree that it didn’t end well,” she said.

The Queen urged Americans to write in her name on Election Day, after which the transition to British rule could begin “with a minimum of bother.”

Elizabeth acknowledged that, in the wake of Brexit, Americans might justifiably be alarmed about being governed by the British parliamentary system, but she reassured them, “Parliament would play no role in this deal. This would be an old-school monarchy. Just me, and then, assuming you’d rather not have Charles, we could go straight to William and those children of his who have mesmerized you so.”

Using the closing moments of her speech to tout her credentials, the Queen made it clear that she has never used e-mail and has only had sex with one person “very occasionally.”


----------



## Soundhound

Andy Borowitz is required reading. 

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/boro...ck-of-world-for-something-other-than-gun-laws


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> LONDON .......In an unexpected televised address on Saturday, Queen Elizabeth II offered to restore British rule over the United States of America.
> 
> Addressing the American people from her office in Buckingham Palace, the Queen said that she was making the offer “in recognition of the desperate situation you now find yourselves in.”
> 
> “This two-hundred-and-forty-year experiment in self-rule began with the best of intentions, but I think we can all agree that it didn’t end well,” she said.
> 
> The Queen urged Americans to write in her name on Election Day, after which the transition to British rule could begin “with a minimum of bother.”
> 
> Elizabeth acknowledged that, in the wake of Brexit, Americans might justifiably be alarmed about being governed by the British parliamentary system, but she reassured them, “Parliament would play no role in this deal. This would be an old-school monarchy. Just me, and then, assuming you’d rather not have Charles, we could go straight to William and those children of his who have mesmerized you so.”
> 
> Using the closing moments of her speech to tout her credentials, the Queen made it clear that she has never used e-mail and has only had sex with one person “very occasionally.”



Hilarious!!


----------



## Baron Greuner

How does anyone have 650,000 emails? That seems excessive to me.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> Using the closing moments of her speech to tout her credentials, the Queen made it clear that she has never used e-mail and has only had sex with one person “very occasionally.”



Well 4 times, at least.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Soundhound, it's worth going back and reading Borowitz' headlines over a couple of years (the articles are usually worth it too, but really the headlines contain 95% of the wit).

He's just brilliant.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Baron Greuner said:


> How does anyone have 650,000 emails? That seems excessive to me.



Assuming Anthony Weiner's laptop dated from 4 to 8 years, that's roughly between 200 - 400 emails a day. But maybe 90% are walmart and Home depot ads.


----------



## chimuelo

Metadata shows time as well as IPS source and destination.
FBI leaks already claim they are from 2009-2015 March.
Right when the Congressional subpeonas requiring her to return the peoples property were served.
When an employee leaves thier post federal law requires you turn over all correspondence.
Clintons thought they could get away with this, and they did.
They bought the DNC and slow walked the investigation since she was sick, then she had a fall, etc. erc.

Liberal Gods have no intention of obeying laws for commoners, peasants or mortals.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Ok, but if I understand this correctly, right now the re-opening of the investigation was triggered because of 3 emails, just 3, on Weiner's Laptop, not the 650,000. How can this get any more complex?


----------



## Soundhound

Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnel, Newt Gingrich and the Koch Brothers all called to say, 'thanks Chim! You are a great help, keep up the good work, the cause needs dedicated souls like you fighting the good fight.'




chimuelo said:


> Liberal Gods have no intention of obeying laws for commoners, peasants or mortals.


----------



## Soundhound

I do do that every now and then! I mean, I read him in real time, but going back over his take on the landscape is one of the only joys in this ugliest of political years. 



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Soundhound, it's worth going back and reading Borowitz' headlines over a couple of years (the articles are usually worth it too, but really the headlines contain 95% of the wit).
> 
> He's just brilliant.


----------



## chimuelo

Guy Bacos said:


> Ok, but if I understand this correctly, right now the re-opening of the investigation was triggered because of 3 emails, just 3, on Weiner's Laptop, not the 650,000. How can this get any more complex?



The assumption was if the 3 had metadata to the private server the other 649,997 emails would be the mother load.

I'm sure Weiner called Foundation clean up crew lawyers for bleach bit, they ignored him. Next best thing for Liberal criminals is witness protection program.

To prove his worthiness he handed over his laptop, they verified the amount of data and it's ISP origin were sufficient.

Another DNC chairwoman liar/cheater will be stepping down soon too.
Seems the Super Delegate lied, cheated bad enough for CNN to fire her.
She's perfect for the DNC.
Pre requisite is to take Foundation bribes, lie, etc.

What a pathetic lot.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Later today, I plan to write an email that is worse than Watergate. Bwahaha!


----------



## Soundhound

Tom Delay, Denny Hastert and Ken Starr were super pissed that I didn't mention them before. They asked if you're available for deep background quotes and if that works out, a slot on Trump TV once up and running. Ken thought your show could be called 'They're All Assholes'. Says it's just a thought, you will have full input on the set and co-anchor. 



chimuelo said:


> Another DNC chairwoman liar/cheater will be stepping down soon too.
> Seems the Super Delegate lied, cheated bad enough for CNN to fire her.
> She's perfect for the DNC.
> Pre requisite is to take Foundation bribes, lie, etc.
> 
> What a pathetic lot.


----------



## chimuelo

They ganged up on Bernie big time.
DBrazil is a super delegate, should never be allowed a media spot, especially since she cheats, lies and Im sure we can find a salary from the Foundation.
4 FBI investigations into the childrens fund at the Foundation are going on now.
Those Weiner emails will certainly come in handy.

Sheldon Edelson just convinced me my theory of Trump throwing the race is wrong.
25,000,000 dollars and a guarantee of a Joe Heck win in Nevada.

Edelson Wynn and other billionaires not donating to Trump convinced me at the time I was right.
Edelsons contribution tells me this race is on.

Noticing all of the Illinois races and the flurry of ads.
All GOP folks have the logo and mention theyre Republican.
Not a single Liberal mentions thier affilliation.
Just thier name and a list of free stuff if you vote for them.

Bring back Bernie.


----------



## Guy Bacos

chimuelo said:


> The assumption was if the 3 had metadata to the private server the other 649,997 emails would be the mother load.
> 
> I'm sure Weiner called Foundation clean up crew lawyers for bleach bit, they ignored him. Next best thing for Liberal criminals is witness protection program.
> 
> To prove his worthiness he handed over his laptop, they verified the amount of data and it's ISP origin were sufficient.
> 
> Another DNC chairwoman liar/cheater will be stepping down soon too.
> Seems the Super Delegate lied, cheated bad enough for CNN to fire her.
> She's perfect for the DNC.
> Pre requisite is to take Foundation bribes, lie, etc.
> 
> What a pathetic lot.



Sure, makes sense. Thanks.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

The whole email thing was beyond inane from the beginning, and it's gone downhill from there.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Bill and Hillary reminds me of Bonnie and Clyde, we know how that ended.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Bonnie and Clyde were notorious bank robbers.

I didn't always agree with Bill Clinton, but he's an incredible politician. Bear in mind that he was a Rhodes scholar - it's not like he's some dork who stumbled in off the street. I don't know if you heard his speech at the Democratic National Convention four years ago, but I'm not sure Obama would have won without that speech.

Hillary is also extremely bright. She has as deep an understanding of the issues as anyone in the country, she's very competent and experienced, and she's very serious about fighting for the progressive policy proposals she's detailed. That's why she's been the target of a right-wing conspiracy for three decades: they're afraid she's going to do good things for the country.

Don't let the constant barrage of crap influence your thinking. The email thing was a big pile of absolutely nothing from the beginning. And comparing her to Txxxx is beyond ludicrous.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Hey Nick, I should of said Bill and Hillary are being portrait by the republicans as today's Bonnie and Clyde, you know? They MUST be stopped!

But I'm totally with you, I've always been a fan of Bill Clinton, and never gave a shit about the silly scandals, he had a very high approval rating at the end of his 2nd term. So what if he's corrupted, what politician isn't? Hillary messed up in a few areas, and is surely just as corrupted, but she is a smart politician, has experience, and tac, and I'll take that over a dangerous lunatic anytime.

An honest politician is unlikely to get to the top, sadly!


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Sheldon Edelson just convinced me my theory of Trump throwing the race is wrong.
> 25,000,000 dollars and a guarantee of a Joe Heck win in Nevada.



Wait. 360,000 posts of how right you were, but now you say you were wrong all along. I'm calling the FBI and the Area 51 Alien Control Board.


----------



## NYC Composer

Btw, I can't wait for this to be over. To me, it no longer matters. I'm not watching the news, I'm not checking in on the websites. I'll be plugged in on November 8th, and then I'll go on with my life in whatever form. Either way, I'm going to volunteer and work towards 2020. Thank you all for playing, here's a home version of our game.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Brian Cranston says he's moving to Canada if Trump wins.


Bye Brian!


----------



## chimuelo

Well what would you think Larry when the donor class doesnt spend any money?
Everyone knows the cash pays ground teams and Super Pacs buy ads.
When you dont see investors getting involved its because they have better information.

Personally I dont see DJT getting close.
You cant win with polls.
You win with electoral votes.

HRC will put those vast right wing FBI guys in thier place.
Lynch knows the drill.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well, best hope it isn't close. 

It's fuckin odd out here. I've never seen a quieter Halloween on the streets.


----------



## Soundhound

It's sad and creepy. Had a low flow of kids trick or treating last night (our first in Amurica), same as anywhere, ghouls, superheroes, crash test dummies, hilarious and adorable... Last was a group of boys who kept yelling 'vote for Trump' and 'build a wall' as their parents waited in the car at the curb. Totally regular kids, poisoned by their moronic parents. Ewww...


----------



## Guy Bacos

Baron Greuner said:


> Brian Cranston says he's moving to Canada if Trump wins.
> 
> 
> Bye Brian!



I'm Canadian, that will be quite a pair,Trump and Justin or Beavis and Butthead. I'll move to Switzerland.


----------



## Guy Bacos

What is so sad is, it is not about Trump showing his skills as a politician, he has none, it is a long awaited cry for justice from the people sick of all the corruption in Washington, very similar to the verdict of OJ Simpson, there was a score to settle, an opportunity to get even, which was long overdue. In that sense I agree, things must balance sooner or later for the system to (more or less) get back on track. I just can't stand to know the alternative is Trump.


----------



## chimuelo

Well said Guy.
Folks trained classically usually have excellent comprehension and analytical skills.
They see through the fake media, fake out rage, etc.
Millions of Americans like me lost our ass on home equity, wages, dealing with inflation.
We can take the lumps.
But lying politicians are what infuriates people.
Soldiers being hustled around by Union paper pushers, fake health care.

Who ever Serves next has roughly 100,000,000 pissed of middle class soldiers, workers, mothers, etc.

If they see millions more pouring in just so Liberals can retain thier jobs selling legislation, there will be serious consequences.

Fingers crossed.


----------



## Soundhound

Thank god conservatives are so upright and never do anything like this. Priebus called again, feels like they've got things under control. TV offer is tabled for the moment, but they would like to offer you a radio show.



chimuelo said:


> just so Liberals can retain thier jobs selling legislation, there will be serious consequences.
> 
> Fingers crossed.


----------



## Guy Bacos

How do you guys see Trump doing if ever he were to become president? I know it's scary but it was Halloween yesterday.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Guy, without hyperbole: I'd give it 50/50 whether our democracy would survive.

People don't seem to get the depth of the crisis we're facing. You have a candidate who's worse than it's possible to create in a lab if you tried to concoct the worst possible candidate. His team includes a leader of the openly racist and fascist alt-right movement, Steve Bannon (who is also anti-Semitic, of course). Pence, his running mate, is a nutty religious freak who wants to force women to hold funerals for their aborted fetuses - and it's telling that he seems reasonable by comparison! The former Speaker of the House is a surrogate, running around advocating religious persecution.

Lost in the shuffle is that the present Speaker of the House is also an extreme nutcase. And our media, desperate to show that they're not taking sides, holds this horrendous intellectual pervert as a policy wonk!


----------



## JonFairhurst

Trump sees two kinds of people: enemies and property. Either way, he treats them like sh*t.

If Trump is elected, it will be non-stop drama. It will be all about the fights. Maybe he will alienate all of Congress and get the parties to unite. 

He shows disdain for rules when they're in his way and uses them like a hammer when they favor him. There are no fair fights in Trumpland. Break enough of those rules and alienate Congress and Pence likely gets a promotion - after a real knock down drag out fight.

The media will eat it up. The polarization will be whipped to its zenith. We will all take our eyes off the ball.

Because for Trump, none of this has anything to do with governing.


----------



## chimuelo

Jon summed it up perfectly.
HRC is going to win though.
Perfection in corruption is incredibly difficult to achieve.
Sounds bad but really is the Apex of governing.
A little bit of something is better than nothing.
Just think how our allies are going to respond.
The wounded beaten woman managed to beat the mighty billionaire for all to see.

That's something to respect, which also translates to something to fear.

We're going to be just fine.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Guy, without hyperbole: I'd give it 50/50 whether our democracy would survive.



When you see the type of people showing up at Trump's rallies, and hear their kind of reasoning or non reasoning, makes you understand how some countries came to adopt an alternative system. I'm for democracy, of course, but in some cases, you'd want the smarter people in charge, not the most popular.


----------



## Guy Bacos

I hate to say it, but in a way I would want Trump to win just so all these moron Trump supporters could see what they voted for and have to live with the consequences. They would deserve it. Unfortunately the non Trump supporters would suffer as well.


----------



## Soundhound

They wouldn't see anything. They've been brainwashed by right wing media and have no capacity for intelligent analytical thought.

The fact that Trump made it this far and has galvanized the very worst the country has to offer is incredibly dangerous. This is a powerful country and has done terrible damage since the right wing took over. The logical extension of that is outright facism, and that is what Trump and the people who love him represent.




Guy Bacos said:


> I hate to say it, but in a way I would want Trump to win just so all these moron Trump supporters could see what they voted for and have to live with the consequences. They would deserve it. Unfortunately the non Trump supporters would suffer as well.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Leaving aside everything else, what about his being a Russian puppet? I'm not talking about the BS stories going around, I mean about tearing NATO apart and so on. And yes, the Russians have been interfering in our elections.

Putin is totally awful. Don't forget that.

If anyone has five minutes to understand what I'm saying, this is worth reading from beginning to end:

http://www.vox.com/world/2016/11/1/13487322/donald-trump-russia-agent-hack


----------



## Guy Bacos

Michael Moore: _Any Trump supporter like 'a legal terrorist'_


----------



## woodsdenis

Seems viable !!


----------



## NYC Composer

I've spent the past year reading about the various Americas that are not New York, Washington, California. I've been reading, thinking and discussing class in America, jobs and culture and religion, "entitlements", education and the lack thereof. After all of that it strikes me that urban liberals who are simply believing in a "brainwashed" Southern and Midwestern population, buying the notion that the violent backlash of people is due solely to a right wing media machine are not looking deeply enough at the problems and cultural differences of the non-urban lower middle class in America. There's more than racism and sexism there.

I think Trump is less the symptom of right wing white anger than the vomitus of it. 

I was amazed that America elected G.W. Bush, especially the second time. Though deeply disconcerted and worried by a Trump Presidency, I wouldn't be shocked.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Getting nervous with the latest polls.


----------



## chimuelo

What "violent backlash" would that be Larry?

The only violence I see is in Liberal neighborhoods like Chicago.
More people died there last week than in Mosul.
38 people shot 16 dead.

Or the MS13 gangs on Long Island beating 2 teenage black girls to death, that led to finding more tortuted to death bodies. Still investigating others that are missing.

Black Lives Matter, unless its illegal gang members or black gangstas killing innocent blacks because they cant shoot very well.

The violent backlash you speak of doesnt exist, unless of course you want it to.
Im sure scanning the newspapers might turn up a few isolated incidents.


----------



## chimuelo

Guy Bacos said:


> Getting nervous with the latest polls.


Nothing to be nervous about.
This always happens in every election.
The suspense, the money made selling poisonous ads only comes every couple years and those who own medis are wreckless and usually foreigners.


----------



## Guy Bacos

This is a typical brainless Trump supporter. But what are you suppose to say when this is the kind of reply you get?

(and this guy making this video trying to look like he's at CNN or FOX, looks so amateurish)



My comment on top of the thread, and this Felipe Gomez is saying this.

Sounds to me you don't have any concerns. 1. TRUP is not anywhere close to being a concern as much as Hildibeast! He didn't help bring America down . He didn't declare War on RUSSIA! There is no comparison between the two! You don't make any sense? You only have 2 choices! Any clues yet? Trump didn't have people assassinated and killed. People all around that bitch and male dog. have over 50 people murdered. That's besides all the criminal crap you see and hear! Or not hear by the biased media! There is only 1 choice and your confused? Unbelievable! You're just making up excuses period! Non make any common sense!


----------



## chimuelo

You should follow our ratings driven media more often, it's more comical than anything.
You are told there's only Liberal and Conservative media, no just "News" outlets as they MUST be tied to a political idea which then funnels cash and uses ratings to spike their costs for advertisers.

If you total everyone calling themselves Liberal or Conservative, their combined numbers are 45% at best.
That leaves the rest of us who do not believe in either of these Crime Families.

Nor do we believe the process serves anyone other than the seller of the legislation.

If people are united, there's nobody left to manipulate.
Strawmen and boogie men are created and used.

WMD, worked great.
ISIS, even better.
We actually helped create them, but you wont read about those back room donations and negotiations.

Media inside the USA is laughed at, but effective.
As the goal to keep America somehow divided, benefits the dividers.

Its these people who are sick with greed and corruption.
They do not represent me or anyone I know.

Sad that people claiming a superior intelligence seem to play along, but I guess they were promised something from these 2 law firms, that still hasn't been delivered, so they carry on......what else can they do?


----------



## NYC Composer

You misunderstood what I meant by "violent". Re-read my post and figure out the spirit it was written in. Read the whole thing carefully, Jmmy, then see if you can discern a different spin than the one you put on it, which was completely incorrect. I would tell you but since you misinterpreted and went straight to ideology, I want YOU to tell ME what else I could have meant.


----------



## chimuelo

Anger is different than violence.

I understand exaggerating to get a point across.
I do similar things calling ghettos Liberal neighborhoods.
A high percentage vote the same way predictably, but urban areas like Sausolito where my family lives are also Liberal neighborhoods. 

Difference is thier problems are which boat to use, Diesel or the dual Johnson Unleaded.
Not which way home due to gunfire.


----------



## chimuelo

This is a 4 year term for whoever wins.
Clintons will be hounded to another impeachment, that is guaranteed.
Trump will lose his temper and use the bully pulpit to attack anyone who gets in his way.
Americans are tired of hearing him tell us the same story of the great company he built, but how governing is different..? No shit Sherlock...
Yepp.
American hispanics will surely step in, remove the blacks and whites since theyre insistance on reliving thier past should be done in a courtroom, not on the world stage.

We promise to be understanding of your shortcomings.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Really? I have to explain it? Disappointing.

It wasn't hyperbolic.it was a figure of speech. A "violent backlash", in this case, is the selection and support of an utterly unsuitable candidate for President because he's not an "insider."

Think about it. He's not conservative. He's not religious. He didn't work his way up. He's no champion of the working class nor the middle class. He's from fucking NEW YORK, I mean, ffs! Yet he has been chosen as the REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT.

If that's not a ""violent backlash", I dunno what is.


----------



## Guy Bacos

chimuelo said:


> Nothing to be nervous about.
> This always happens in every election.
> The suspense, the money made selling poisonous ads only comes every couple years and those who own medis are wreckless and usually foreigners.



Nothing to be nervous about? I'm not panicking, but it doesn't look good. He may get Florida now.


----------



## chimuelo

He's just a guy with lots of cash and fine ass women he collected over the years.
Even Ice Cube has a great explanation of why the brothas like him.
When asked what Trump would do for blacks (last year before the make the ghettos great again strategy)...He cocks his head and says she-it...laughs...reporter says you don't think he would help blacks?...Epps honestly says why would he? He's white...

This is the kind of honesty most people understand and expect.
Government is not there to help you.
You must help yourself or organize into a group lobby with.

Otherwise you live in la-la land.

But yeah, he is a real dick head.
Liberals are a worthless breed for bringing back the Clinton's as they drug along Trump.

Blame them, not the voters who lost faith in thier leaders who lie and Fuck them over and over.


----------



## chimuelo

Guy, you're a talented smart guy, great Chopin stuff btw, but don't let these "experts" con you.
They are never right but are useful for purposes that are beyond me.
There's only 1 poll. It's out on November 8th.
Even that one isn't always right.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

"A Totally Plausible Path for Evan McMullin to Become President" (McMullin wins Utah, Trump wins Florida, Michigan and North Carolina)

https://origin-nyi.thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/303792-a-totally-plausible-path-for-independent-evan


----------



## chimuelo

I could handle the CIA in the White House.
If we must be led by liars may as well have the best.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael K. Bain said:


> "A Totally Plausible Path for Evan McMullin to Become President" (McMullin wins Utah, Trump wins Florida, Michigan and North Carolina)
> 
> https://origin-nyi.thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/303792-a-totally-plausible-path-for-independent-evan


That looks perfectly plausible to me. Why, just the other day I was gazing out the window and a pig flew by.


----------



## Soundhound

Denial is a beautiful thing. Always sad, but touching.

The election is over, has been for a few months. But Trump made it ok to be a racist again. That's his legacy.

What I want is a proud atheist to finally get in the white house. I'm so sick of people having to make believe they believe in ugly, inane, destructive superstition to get elected. We're such a backward country. Religion is a great evil, a vestige of our primitive past. Once we get past it, like much of the civilized world, a lot of things will improve.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo#plus


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> Religion is a great evil, a vestige of our primitive past. Once we get past it, like much of the civilized world, a lot of things will improve.



I prefer to think of it as some people having evil in their heart and they'll say or do lots of stupid things in the name of religion. If you remove religion, it won't change a thing, they will find other ways to act upon their stupidity. Religion has always been an excuse to take sides, but the evil is already in the person, especially for the radicals. I see some of that evil in Saint Pence.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hillary's right about Trump insulting people and she's right that you shouldn't insult people.

I agree wholeheartedly agree with Hillary. Insulting people is deplorable!

Ummmmm?


----------



## NYC Composer

I once heard you say something that wasn't ironic, Adrian.

We slip once in a while.


----------



## Soundhound

I disagree. Religion is a great way to get people to act irrationally and forcefully, often against their own interests. More people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause. Of course they were really being being rallied by those in power who wanted even more power, but religion is the gasoline. Atheism doesn't do that. As Jim Jeffries hilarious said, no one has ever, when about to cut off someone's head, yelled "In the name of... NOTHING!!"

I understand it helps lots of people get through the night. I understand and empathize, we all need that sometimes. But there are other ways to get through the night. Once we get past religion (eons, I know, eons) we're going to be better off. Not perfect, no such thing, but way better off.



Guy Bacos said:


> I prefer to think of it as some people having evil in their heart and they'll say or do lots of stupid things in the name of religion. If you remove religion, it won't change a thing, they will find other ways to act upon their stupidity. Religion has always been an excuse to take sides, but the evil is already in the person, especially for the radicals. I see some of that evil in Saint Pence.


----------



## Soundhound

Trump has the kind of honesty most people understand and expect? Now that, Chim, is some seriously stupid shit. But it was a mistake, you didn't mean to say that. We all make mistakes. What you meant to say was that Trump's venomous bullshit is recognized as such by people who know it when they see it.

Government is not here to help you. That's two seriously stupid things in one post, Mr Reagan. Mommy called, says it's time to leave the press conference, you don't want to be late for dinner.








chimuelo said:


> He's just a guy with lots of cash and fine ass women he collected over the years.
> Even Ice Cube has a great explanation of why the brothas like him.
> When asked what Trump would do for blacks (last year before the make the ghettos great again strategy)...He cocks his head and says she-it...laughs...reporter says you don't think he would help blacks?...Epps honestly says why would he? He's white...
> 
> This is the kind of honesty most people understand and expect.
> Government is not there to help you.
> You must help yourself or organize into a group lobby with.
> 
> Otherwise you live in la-la land.
> 
> But yeah, he is a real dick head.
> Liberals are a worthless breed for bringing back the Clinton's as they drug along Trump.
> 
> Blame them, not the voters who lost faith in thier leaders who lie and Fuck them over and over.


----------



## chimuelo

Those are your words.

I commented on how Mike Epps saying Trump wouldn't help blacks because he is white, is not only funny but the real honesty people do not like to hear.
And it's the truth if you are a free thinker, not reliant on parrots, or elites for guidance and talking points.

Trump is far from honest, but many believe he wants to drain the swamp.
Who can blame them after the last 8 years of lies, failure, deceit, destruction and now even more cash hikes for shitty health care. 

Having said that, 4 more years of Liberal failure is still better than stocks crashing from a Federal Reserve that already donates to the Clintons campaign.
Trump is the wrong guy. 

Plus he cannot win without a ground game.
Hundreds of millions spread around districts says cash buys votes.

I tend to agree.


----------



## robh

Soundhound said:


> I disagree. Religion is a great way to get people to act irrationally and forcefully, often against their own interests. *More people have been killed in the name of religion than any other cause*. Of course they were really being being rallied by those in power who wanted even more power, but religion is the gasoline. *Atheism doesn't do that.* As Jim Jeffries hilarious said, no one has ever, when about to cut off someone's head, yelled "In the name of... NOTHING!!"
> 
> I understand it helps lots of people get through the night. I understand and empathize, we all need that sometimes. But there are other ways to get through the night. Once we get past religion (eons, I know, eons) we're going to be better off. Not perfect, no such thing, but way better off.


How do you explain the millions killed just in the last century by atheist ideologies? They may have not yelled anything, but they did it in the name of their ideology.
Really, SH, you need to go visit a few churches. Find out what they really put their energy in. For example, some "irrational and forceful" women in our church has recently been able to support and get a few women out of the child welfare system. These women have radically changed their lives for the better. It wouldn't have happened without "religion." I could list many more examples, but I have a feeling I'd be wasting my breath.

Rob


----------



## Guy Bacos

robh said:


> How do you explain the millions killed just in the last century by atheist ideologies? They may have not yelled anything, but they did it in the name of their ideology.
> Really, SH, you need to go visit a few churches. Find out what they really put their energy in. For example, some "irrational and forceful" women in our church has recently been able to support and get a few women out of the child welfare system. These women have radically changed their lives for the better. It wouldn't have happened without "religion." I could list many more examples, but I have a feeling I'd be wasting my breath.
> 
> Rob



I know what you're saying and that is the common view on religion being the cause of wars. Let's keep it simple for the sake of the argument, just take ISIS, the radicals believe everything in the Sharia Law, right? Let me ask you something first: Have you ever seen a radical looking normal to you? They all look like frustrated, angry people. I've yet to see a single one that looks normal, just a happy clam. If you tell them it's ok to treat woman a certain way, kill people, and have this power over others, it will fit their need right away, but now it's ok because it's in the name of Allah and what Sharia Law wants, and according to them, their religion is the only and last religion of mankind that counts. These people have evil in their heart and take advantage of scriptures and interpretations that are of the middle ages. I think to different degrees, anyone who becomes violent in the name of his religion, is because of his type of personalty, and surely has hatred in him just waiting for an opportunity or excuse to get out his frustration. Many people are religious and are very good people, and I'm sure you know a lot of peaceful people like that who practice their faith and have always been decent folks, and it should be respected, others simply chose to turn it into violence and wars. well, that's my view.


----------



## robh

Guy Bacos said:


> I know what you're saying and that is the common view on religion being the cause of wars. Let's keep it simple for the sake of the argument, just take ISIS, the radicals believe everything in the Sharia Law, right? Let me ask you something first: Have you ever seen a radical looking normal to you? They all look like frustrated, angry people. I've yet to see a single one that looks normal, just a happy clam. If you tell them it's ok to treat woman a certain way, kill people, and have this power over others, it will fit their need right away, but now it's ok because it's what Allah and Sharia Law wants, and their religion is the only and last religion of mankind that counts. These people have evil in their heart and take advantage of scriptures and interpretations that are of the middle ages. I think to different degrees, anyone who becomes violent in the name of his religion, is because of his type of personalty, and surely has evil in his heart just waiting for an opportunity or excuse to get out his frustration. Many people are religious and are very good people, and it should be respected, others simply turn it into violence and wars. well, that's my view.


I think I follow - I think you are saying it starts with what's deep down in a person to begin with. Is that correct? I agree to a certain extent. In my own experience and observation, it's much more complex than that. Some people have turned into good people because of religion. Some have turned bad because of it, but then that begs the question, is that because of the religion, or in spite of it? Are they truly following the religious teaching, or twisting it to say something it hasn't said to suit their craving for power and control (or belonging)?
As you can easily guess, I identify with being a "religious" person. And I'm just very, very tired of the broad, condescending (and to be blunt, ignorant) brush strokes from some people towards those who are religious. Also, when I see absurd statements like "atheism doesn't do that" over and over, sometimes I'll call out the BS. Believe it or not, it's not because "I'm right, you're wrong, so there!" It's because I actually hope SH broadens his perspective.

Rob


----------



## Guy Bacos

robh said:


> As you can easily guess, I identify with being a "religious" person. And I'm just very, very tired of the broad, condescending (and to be blunt, ignorant) brush strokes from some people towards those who are religious. Also, when I see absurd statements like "atheism doesn't do that" over and over, sometimes I'll call out the BS. Believe it or not, it's not because "I'm right, you're wrong, so there!" It's because I actually hope SH broadens his perspective.
> 
> Rob



Don't disagree. I'm also allergic to this.


----------



## Soundhound

You are indeed wasting your breath, in this regard: The very last thing I need to do is visit churches. The very last, right after becoming a Lakers fan.

I do know people who are religious, to different degrees and in different ways. And many I'm sure I don't know whether they are religious or not. And I know people who do wonderful work for their communities through their churches. My stepfather was a died in the wool good old boy, but his consciousness was raised through his church doing work helping vietnamese refugees get settled in their area. Of course many churches do good work, as do secular organizations.

The difference is secular organizations don't push an irrational, terrifying fear as part of their work. The woman who took care of me as a child was a Christian Scientist. When she developed cancer her church counseled her to not have treatment. She died for no reason.

The 20 million people killed by Stalin were not murdered in the name of atheism. It's a specious argument, a false equivalence used by the religious right. Religion is a uniquely powerful tool for getting people to do what you want them to do, and has been used for exactly that throughout history.

Religion is deeply personal, what anyone chooses to believe or not believe is entirely their business. I have friends who are religious, and some I talk to about the subject if they want to, but I always want to make it their decision not mine, and am always respectful of their beliefs. The philosophy of religion and the philosophy of science are both fascinating to me.

I know when talking politics I can be uncharitable about this, but I have no patience for those who try to impose their beliefs on other people, and this country is incredibly backward in its religiosity. We have never had an atheist president, the sooner that happens the better.





robh said:


> How do you explain the millions killed just in the last century by atheist ideologies? They may have not yelled anything, but they did it in the name of their ideology.
> Really, SH, you need to go visit a few churches. Find out what they really put their energy in. For example, some "irrational and forceful" women in our church has recently been able to support and get a few women out of the child welfare system. These women have radically changed their lives for the better. It wouldn't have happened without "religion." I could list many more examples, but I have a feeling I'd be wasting my breath.
> 
> Rob


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> ...I have no patience for those who try to impose their beliefs on other people, and this country is incredibly backward in its religiosity. We have never had an atheist president, and the sooner that happens the better.



That itself is a personality trait which to me has nothing to do with religion. Having discussions on this is OK, but imposing your religion on others and hoping to brainwash them is a totally different story. An atheist president? I don't see that soon.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> That looks perfectly plausible to me. Why, just the other day I was gazing out the window and a pig flew by.


McMullin could very well take Utah. And what so implausible about Trump winning NC and Florida? He's ahead in about half the polls in Florida and NC. Michigan will be a tougher sell, but we'll see.
And maybe you ought to start hoping McMullin can stop them. It looks less and less these days like Clinton will stop Trump.


----------



## Soundhound

I would disagree. There is a long, hallowed history of proselytizing in religion, they go hand in hand quite often. And I would also argue that it's endemic to the very idea of many religions. if you believe that yours is the only true way, then the groundwork is laid for you to try to convince others. History bears this out to a terrible degree.

As far as there being an atheist U.S. president, of course I agree, sadly. There is a deep, continuing racism and misogyny in this country, and yet a black man, and now a woman, will have been elected president. But both have to profess a belief in god in order to get elected. That is primitive, regressive and dangerous, and something I hope we get past in my lifetime. (not holding my breath)




Guy Bacos said:


> That itself is a personality trait which to me has nothing to do with religion. Having discussions on this is OK, but imposing your religion on others and hoping to brainwash them is a totally different story. An atheist president? I don't see that soon.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> I would disagree. There is a long, hallowed history of proselytizing in religion, they go hand in hand quite often. And I would also argue that it's endemic to the very idea of many religions. if you believe that yours is the only true way, then the groundwork is laid for you to try to convince others. History bears this out to a terrible degree.
> 
> As far as there being an atheist U.S. president, of course I agree, sadly. There is a deep, continuing racism and misogyny in this country, and yet a black man, and now a woman, have been elected president. But both have to profess a belief in god in order to get elected. That is primitive, regressive and dangerous, and something I hope we get past in my lifetime. (not holding my breath)



Ok, let's imagine that religion never existed, I know it's hard to do, but let's try. Do you think the world of of been a much better place and immune to wars?


----------



## chimuelo

New wikileaks emails reveal why US Allies and NATO don't want to pay more money.
Clinton's have been shaking them down for cash since the 90s.
They been paying all along it seems.


----------



## Soundhound

Respectfully, it's a nonsensical question. Religion is a coping mechanism we developed to help explain the world, comfort ourselves, create hope and structure for our lives. It's very basic to the human condition. The better we understand our world, the more likely we are to thrive. Religion was early man's way of understanding. That's bred in the bone pretty deep. 

So would we be better off if we'd never had religion? It seems impossible to say, since it was so basic to our development. Only very recently have we started to move past it, to find more reliable, useful and profitable ways of searching for the truth about the world. Namely, science. The world has changed faster since the enlightenment than any time before, and the speed keeps increasing. Hopefully we won't kill ourselves off with our powerful inventions before our emotional life catches up with our intellectual life. We may know how to get a man to Mars, but emotionally we're still just a few steps out of the caves.




Guy Bacos said:


> Ok, let's imagine that religion never existed, I know it's hard to do, but let's try. Do you think the world of of been a much better place and immune to wars?


----------



## Soundhound

Links, proof. Or it didn't happen.



chimuelo said:


> New wikileaks emails reveal why US Allies and NATO don't want to pay more money.
> Clinton's have been shaking them down for cash since the 90s.
> They been paying all along it seems.


----------



## Soundhound

Per the Larry/Chim discussion regarding violent backlash. Here's the kind of shit Donald Trump is unleashing. Yes, it's always been there, and yes the hopeful thing would be that he did us a favor by uncovering it. I want to be hopeful. Really I do.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/03/u...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> Respectfully, it's a nonsensical question. Religion is a coping mechanism we developed to help explain the world, comfort ourselves, create hope and structure for our lives. It's very basic to the human condition. The better we understand our world, the more likely we are to thrive. Religion was early man's way of understanding. That's bred in the bone pretty deep.
> 
> So would we be better off if we'd never had religion? It seems impossible to say, since it was so basic to our development. Only very recently have we started to move past it, to find more reliable, useful and profitable ways of searching for the truth about the world. Namely, science. The world has changed faster since the enlightenment than any time before, and the speed keeps increasing. Hopefully we won't kill ourselves off with our powerful inventions before our emotional life catches up with our intellectual life. We may know how to get a man to Mars, but emotionally we're still just a few steps out of the caves.



Let's simplify it then. Let's take the case of children who grows in homes in which religion is never a subject. Don't children fight? This is my toy! This is my territory! Mom likes me more than you! You had more pie than I did! etc. I see similar traits with Hitler, just a big child, fighting over conquering the world because of some complex he had in his life. So where is religion here? And we know the devastation WWII made.


----------



## chimuelo

It was a joke Sound Hound...

I'll check back after you scientists debate Planetary orbits.

Then I'll share pics of SoundHound in Hasidic dress at his Kibbutz where they worship wealthy white Liberal God's.


----------



## Soundhound

The plural form of God doesn't get an apostrophe. Especially since there's only one true god. That's a joke Jimmy.

Can I share the picture of you playing in a mariachi band serenading W and Condi at their hacienda as they worship Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman?



chimuelo said:


> It was a joke Sound Hound...
> 
> I'll check back after you scientists debate Planetary orbits.
> 
> Then I'll share pics of SoundHound in Hasidic dress at his Kibbutz where they worship wealthy white Liberal God's.


----------



## Soundhound

I don't see what that has to do with what we're talking about. The fact that bad things happen without religion doesn't have anything to do with the idea of whether religion causes harm, whether on balance it's a good thing or a bad thing. 



Guy Bacos said:


> Let's simplify it then. Let's take the case of children who grows in homes in which religion is never a subject. Don't children fight? This is my toy! This is my territory! Mom likes me more than you! You had more pie than I did! etc. I see similar traits with Hitler, just a big child, fighting over conquering the world because of some complex he had in his life. So where is religion here? And we know the devastation WWII made.


----------



## robh

Soundhound said:


> The 20 million people killed by Stalin were not murdered in the name of atheism. It's a specious argument, a false equivalence used by the religious right.


Which is why I chose my words carefully. I said, "atheistic ideology" - isn't that what communism is? His devotion to that ideal caused millions to die.


> Religion is a uniquely powerful tool for getting people to do what you want them to do, and has been used for exactly that throughout history.


 James 1:27 "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." I will gladly be "coerced" to do that.



> Religion is deeply personal, what anyone chooses to believe or not believe is entirely their business. I have friends who are religious, and some I talk to about the subject if they want to, but I always want to make it their decision not mine, and am always respectful of their beliefs. The philosophy of religion and the philosophy of science are both fascinating to me.


 Ah! Something we agree on!



> I know when talking politics I can be uncharitable about this, but I have no patience for those who try to impose their beliefs on other people, and this country is incredibly backward in its religiosity. We have never had an atheist president, the sooner that happens the better.


Are you sure they're not just wanting their voices heard as well? Isn't that what democracy is about? Your voice _and_ my voice being heard? Although, on some level I agree with you. I don't think the battle the religious right tends to fight is supposed to be focussed in the political arena. Jesus seemed to focus on personal reform, not political reform. It's very much supposed to be that James 1:27 passage.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> I don't see what that has to do with what we're talking about. The fact that bad things happen without religion doesn't have anything to do with the idea of whether religion causes harm, whether on balance it's a good thing or a bad thing.



We have to disagree. I believe it' a question of education and personality and the topic of "religion", is NOT the cause, just the perfect excuse. I believe when someone is a good person, he is a good person period religion or no religion and will not brainwash others to think like him, and vice versa.


----------



## chimuelo

Thou Shall Not Involve Theeselves Unless Killing In The Name Of Human Rights Is Validated.

Thou Shall Not Lie Unless Caught.

Just 2 of the Ten Commandments in Liberal Theology.


----------



## Soundhound

And the tenets of Conservative Theology, please?


----------



## chimuelo

Talk about invading a country that poses no threat, explain why they are a threat, then say God Bless America, pay the NYTimes for a front page ad.
Americans answer the call of duty as they respond to Liberal and Conservative Gods simultaneosly, thus uniting the Sheep.


----------



## Soundhound

Yes we disagree. And I think that when it comes to good and bad there is a very large gray area. Good people do bad things, and visa versa. The only time that's not true is in badly written fiction.

Religion doesn't grab people in midlife and make them bad or good (though that happens of course), it's taught generally at an early age, and helps define who we are. The apple often doesn't fall very far from the tree. I was raised an atheist, as an example. I moved to anti-theist, as in I think religion is a bad idea, but it wasn't much of a leap.

In general, I would agree that it's organized religion, not religion itself that has through the ages caused the great damage. But it's the belief in something that in the mind of the believer is nonnegotiable, that creates the perfect cannon fodder, or 'excuse' as you say.

As I said, and perhaps you missed or chose to ignore, religion itself is deeply personal and as such should be an inviolable right. My problem is with those who want others to believe as they do. Too often, that goes hand in hand with religion itself.





Guy Bacos said:


> We have to disagree. I believe it' a question of education and personality and the topic of "religion", is NOT the cause, just the perfect excuse. I believe when someone is a good person, he is a good person period religion or no religion and will not brainwash others to think like him, and vice versa.


----------



## chimuelo

Incredible media reports.
Black vote is down, send in the Obamas.
Choppy sentances, no mention of health care or millions for speeches and appointments.
Fed threatens to raise rates.
America tears itself apart over the backdrop of cheering Sheep.

Can we have a King and Queen again and avoid being traumatized.
I must retreat to my safe space where pillows await me, and videos of frollicking puppies.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> Religion doesn't grab people in midlife and make them bad or good (though that happens of course), it's taught generally at an early age, and helps define who we are.



Oh, I certainly don't agree with this. I think that's a personal point of view, which I respect. One could have philosophic views about life without getting religion and "Gods" involved, it's the religious nuts, the fanatics, extremists, radicals, that fuck up everything, but these people have serious problems to begin with, unrelated to religion, and I can't insist enough on that. Have you read my post #3942? I explained my thoughts more there. And what ISIS is doing today is no different than what the Catholics were doing in the dark ages.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I'd like to see us go back into the Dark Ages.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Baron Greuner said:


> I'd like to see us go back into the Dark Ages.



If Trump wins, you might get your wish!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Sounds great!


----------



## Soundhound

I think we're talking at cross purposes. I'm saying that religion has been used throughout history by those in power to further their own ends. And I'm saying that religion is uniquely suited to the task. So is nationalism btw, another thing I'm not a fan of. 

As you say, the Catholic church used religion in much the same way Isis does currently. The fact that you can't be president of the united states without professing a belief in god ties us to this primitive legacy. I'd love to see the cord cut some day. Freedom of religion needs to include freedom from religion.





Guy Bacos said:


> Oh, I certainly don't agree with this. I think that's a personal point of view, which I respect. One could have philosophic views about life without getting religion and "Gods" involved, it's the religious nuts, the fanatics, extremists, radicals, that fuck up everything, but these people have serious problems to begin with, unrelated to religion, and I can't insist enough on that. Have you read my post #3942? I explained my thoughts more there. And what ISIS is doing today is no different than what the Catholics were doing in the dark ages.


----------



## Soundhound

You wavered at the end there, but nice try! 



chimuelo said:


> Talk about invading a country that poses no threat, explain why they are a threat, then say God Bless America, pay the NYTimes for a front page ad.
> Americans answer the call of duty as they respond to Liberal and Conservative Gods simultaneosly, thus uniting the Sheep.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> I think we're talking at cross purposes. I'm saying that religion has been used throughout history by those in power to further their own ends. And I'm saying that religion is uniquely suited to the task. So is nationalism btw, another thing I'm not a fan of.



I'll go along with that.


----------



## chimuelo

I figured you'd stick up for your favorite newspaper from Sinaloa...
Good that you despise the UK owned Fox News...
If you spoke Spanish you'd distrust the Israeli owned Una Vision...
That leaved Corporate Liberal media like Donna Brazil and CNN....DNC will fire her, then Clintons will give her a Foundation salary, even the DNC, and CNN had to let her lying Liberal ass go....

Then there's the Cheering Sheep I hear........


----------



## Soundhound

Atheism is not what drove Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot to do what they did. It's a fallacy the religious right uses to try and say 'see, you guys do it too!' 

I do want all voices heard. And in this country you can't be elected to national office if you don't say you believe in god. So all voices are not being heard. It's changing, and we'll get past it, but it could take a very long time. The religious right is deeply political, and deeply un-American, in the sense of a place where everyone is free to believe, or not believe, as they choose.







robh said:


> Which is why I chose my words carefully. I said, "atheistic ideology" - isn't that what communism is? His devotion to that ideal caused millions to die.
> James 1:27 "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." I will gladly be "coerced" to do that.
> 
> Ah! Something we agree on!
> 
> Are you sure they're not just wanting their voices heard as well? Isn't that what democracy is about? Your voice _and_ my voice being heard? Although, on some level I agree with you. I don't think the battle the religious right tends to fight is supposed to be focussed in the political arena. Jesus seemed to focus on personal reform, not political reform. It's very much supposed to be that James 1:27 passage.


----------



## JonFairhurst

The gun fits.

A common theme between Republican policies and the Trump phenomenon is the politics of cruelty.
- Start a war in Iraq, even though they didn't do 9/11 or have WMDs.
- Waterboard (and Trump wants worse.)
- Trump wants to kill families of terrorists.
- Build a wall
- Treat minorities badly
- Treat women badly
- Provide no healthcare to those who can't pay
- Remove protections for people and environment
- Cool with police officers shooting unarmed people
- Defund schools in poor areas
- Regulate personal sexuality and reproductive rights
- Remove social safety nets

(Although they aren't cruel to the 0.1%, oil and coal companies, and gun companies. How dare you victimizes these poor marginalized groups!?!)

I say keep the avi with the gun. Wear your cruelty with pride.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Ok who is the individual? I guess I was suppose to know him, but I don't.


----------



## Guy Bacos

JonFairhurst said:


> The gun fits.
> 
> A common theme between Republican policies and the Trump phenomenon is the politics of cruelty.
> - Start a war in Iraq, even though they didn't do 9/11 or have WMDs.
> - Waterboard (and Trump wants worse.)
> - Trump wants to kill families of terrorists.
> - Build a wall
> - Treat minorities badly
> - Treat women badly
> - Provide no healthcare to those who can't pay
> - Remove protections for people and environment
> - Cool with police officers shooting unarmed people
> - Defund schools in poor areas
> - Regulate personal sexuality and reproductive rights
> - Remove social safety nets
> 
> (Although they aren't cruel to the 0.1%, oil and coal companies, and gun companies. How dare you victimizes these poor marginalized groups!?!)
> 
> I say keep the avi with the gun. Wear your cruelty with pride.



You're letting Trump off easy!


----------



## NYC Composer

In yo' face, white lib'rals.


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah you bunch of ghetto regulatin lyin bastards........


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm a big fan of Bill Maher's show. I think there are often intelligent discussions and though they often walk into a lion's den, actual conservatives come on and argue their points. I enjoy that. 

My biggest problem with Maher is his ridiculing of religion. I was born and educated as a Jew and came to reject every facet of the religious aspects. I have no spiritual faith. I have major problems with people who proselytize, foment violence or try to control others via religion. I have serious disagreements when their religious beliefs cross over to public education or government or health matters that I feel are unscientific or dangerous (polio and other vaccines, abortion, climate change, etc.). There are a lot of serious debates out there regarding who is crossing whose lines in America.

All of that said, I find the broad generalizations, like all broad generalizations, to be lacking in the sort of depth and nuance that are necessary for intelligent analysis. For some people, religion is a binding force that promotes community, good works, lowers their blood pressure, gives them a sense of purpose. For some it is a way to isolate themselves from a secular world they are suspicious of, to remain insular and suspicious, a vehicle to attempt to change the secular world to fit their own, to make others accept their point of view, sometimes violently.

In other words, there are possibilities for both good and bad in religion, as there are in all imperfect human endeavors. Non-theism can claim plenty of lusty murderers. So can theism. We are deeply imperfect animals gathering in separate caves, doing our tribal thang. One shouldn't necessarily confuse progress in technology with progress in civilization.

I believe deeply in tolerance. I am generally intolerant of intolerance.


----------



## chimuelo

Hey Larry,
I'll send you a picture of where I will vote next week.
Never voted for local stuff so I took a spin to make sure I don't miss it on my way out of town.
It's a tiny 200 year old Chapel...

It's so cool looking.
Has a miniature graveyard next to it.

I knew I was surrounded by small religious farming communities but they even vote in Church...

No crime here, people wave as they drive towards you, money is not used at the Saturday Produce Market.

I wish people could see my racist rural neighborhood.
Hindu, Menonites, Omish, Baptist, maybe Catholic heathens, haven't seen many. And yes the black township down the Highway has the best Watermelon and marinated fried Chicken. Ooopps.....sounds racist......


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, I'll tell the dudes in Morningside Park at 118th street where I used to play ball that you said "fried chicken." You're in trouble now-some of them wear hoodies. I know you fear those!


----------



## Soundhound

I'm also a fan of his. I'm glad he seems to have outgrown his libertarian bent, which I always found silly.

I'm also intolerant of intolerance. And to me Amurican culture is intolerant in many ways, and one of the worst is the intolerance of non christian religions and atheism in its political life. The fact that there has never been an atheist president is in this day and age an embarrassment. The fact that it may very well be a long time before that is a real possibility speaks clearly to the problem.

As I explained, to me religion is a personal right and should be defended as such. Freedom from religion is part of that right and should be defended just the same. Laws and culture are not always in sync, often far from it. There are many things that are great about this country. Its pervasive obsession with guns and god are signs of a backward culture, and something I hope we outgrow.




Aoiichi said:


> nice assumption, but if you had a bazooka I'd love to see it (I'm not talking about your pants btw)





NYC Composer said:


> I'm a big fan of Bill Maher's show. I think there are often intelligent discussions and though they often walk into a lion's den, actual conservatives come on and argue their points. I enjoy that.
> 
> My biggest problem with Maher is his ridiculing of religion. I was born and educated as a Jew and came to reject every facet of the religious aspects. I have no spiritual faith. I have major problems with people who proselytize, foment violence or try to control others via religion. I have serious disagreements when their religious beliefs cross over to public education or government or health matters that I feel are unscientific or dangerous (polio and other vaccines, abortion, climate change, etc.). There are a lot of serious debates out there regarding who is crossing whose lines in America.
> 
> All of that said, I find the broad generalizations, like all broad generalizations, to be lacking in the sort of depth and nuance that are necessary for intelligent analysis. For some people, religion is a binding force that promotes community, good works, lowers their blood pressure, gives them a sense of purpose. For some it is a way to isolate themselves from a secular world they are suspicious of, to remain insular and suspicious, a vehicle to attempt to change the secular world to fit their own, to make others accept their point of view, sometimes violently.
> 
> In other words, there are possibilities for both good and bad in religion, as there are in all imperfect human endeavors. Non-theism can claim plenty of lusty murderers. So can theism. We are deeply imperfect animals gathering in separate caves, doing our tribal thang. One shouldn't necessarily confuse progress in technology with progress in civilization.
> 
> I believe deeply in tolerance. I am generally intolerant of intolerance.


----------



## NYC Composer

I was speaking to my friend Jimmy about a previous post he made about people in hoodies and how he believes it's logical to be frightened of them, something I've been making fun of him for since.You're certainly welcome to start an argument with him if you like. I'm sure you'll get as much satisfaction from him as you'll get from me. He and I disagree about 70 percent of things in the world and go at it pretty hard, but at the end of the day we're generally good natured, something you seem incapable of, Aoi.

Wait, were you trying to racially insult me by using a Yiddish word and speaking about New York liberals? Are you a bigot?? 

Btw, I'm not hallucinating a thing. I'm offended by your avatar. Actually, I'm offended by you as you clearly seem to be nothing but a provocateur with nothing to add other than some sort of grumbly troll-ish anger. Why don't you try getting back on topic? Are you voting for Mr Trump? If so, why? If not, why not?


----------



## Guy Bacos

NYC Composer said:


> Why don't you try getting back on topic? Are you voting for Mr Trump? If so, why? If not, why not?



+1


----------



## Guy Bacos

I hear there's an election.


----------



## NYC Composer

I just watched the end. Great game!

Yeah, self restraint's a bastard, but hell, we're collectively, what... 205 years old??
If not now, when?


----------



## chimuelo

Sammy Sosa must be pissed.
Great Series.
Liberals stopped shooting each other as a sign of support for thier Cubs..


----------



## NYC Composer

anyway, 6 days of this hell left, then life will go on in whatever form. When things go badly everyone's movin to Canadia, cept they don' want us anyhow. Prolly have to stay here and fight the good fight.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Sammy Sosa must be pissed.
> Great Series.
> Liberals stopped shooting each other as a sign of support for thier Cubs..


What, they started shooting conservatives???


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Ignore.


----------



## NYC Composer

Ignore what?


----------



## Guy Bacos

After explaining to someone the re opening the investigation by the FBI on Clinton's emails, someone said to me, why don't they postpone the election? I'm presuming that is totally out of the question. However, would make sense, this is too ridiculous. Hillary wins, and then who knows what will happen.


----------



## NYC Composer

I could be wrong, but I dont believe an American presidential election has ever been postponed. Probably not a good precedent.

What will happen is already pretty clear.
If it's anywhere close, Trump will
refuse to accept results. If that challenge fails, the Republicans will again vow to refuse to allow any legislation to take place and try to keep the Supreme Court at 8. So more years of executive actions or stasis.

Future's so bright, gotta wear shades.

Then there's the possibility of a Trump
Presidency. That will be uncharted waters, but I'm sure he'll Make America Great Again.


----------



## Guy Bacos

On the bright side, we won't look so bad with junior Trudeau now.


----------



## NYC Composer

Let's face it, nobody loves their government.


----------



## Red

Isn't Trump victory certain at this point?

I'm seeing people come out of the closet with a week to go here in Cali ,as expected, and the polls are even. 

And the chance of President Trump Changing Nothing vs MAGA = 99/1


----------



## Guy Bacos

If the elections were today or in the past few days, I think Hillary would have good chances of winning, but since the bad news keep pilling up each day,(or what has the effect of bad news...) it doesn't look good for her. Unless the democrats have something up their sleeves for the next few days, I fear the worst. What a suspense!


----------



## NYC Composer

Yes, a Trump victory is certain.

(Btw, when you look at elections, do you consider the possible effects of the electoral college? )


----------



## Guy Bacos

Well, looking at the electoral college right now, Hillary doesn't look as bad as the recent polls indicate. She still has chances of winning by a slim margin (according to CNN's electoral college analysis, which way each state is leaning towards) and may still have enough total votes to win, unfortunately, slowly losing ground. So it's hard to say anything.


----------



## NYC Composer

Definitely going to be a close thing-which isn't good.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hillarious Maximus will get all 55 seats in the People's Republc of California. I will bet any amount of money on that. You get 51% of the vote and you win all the seats.

I didn't know you can change your vote once cast in early voting. Some apparently changed their vote at last 3 times already. I would do the same and urge all early voters to do the same. Keep the vote counters busy!


----------



## chimuelo

No way DJT takes Cali.
If that happens Nick will move to Georgia with Sound hound where a Hillary victory seems assured.

I was going to use a Poncho V. Avatar but knew it would cause trauma.

I contacted Chris Hein to ask for a multi racial GUI on Solo Violin as it's hard to perform since the tiny player that follows along is white and should have options for other races.
Possibly transparent like the Obama administration so nobody would be offended.
But even then my Girlfriend was offended because the hand had no nail polish so she became traumatized.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey Baron- looks like you got some upcoming fun with Parliament!

Can't your Queen rule on this Brexit mess?? Looks like you could exit Brexit!
Odds bodkins!!


----------



## chimuelo

SEPTA Union workers are going to get a huge raise.
The services are what everyone in Philly use to shop, work and vote.
Hillary will send Bill there to negotiate with Black Lives Matter Mayor as Hillary loses Pennsylvannia without Philly and Deleware County.


----------



## NYC Composer

"Mr Follow The Money".


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah Bill will do that.
Poor guy just returns from NKorea and she sends him to Africa for 20,000,000.
Should have kept his pants zipped.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yawn Larry. Already predicted the Brexit challenge ages ago. This is just predictability coming to fruition. Two foreign people made a high court challenge, not to the vote, but the fact that it should be discussed in Parliament. First time the high court have overturned a EU vote ever. All other challenges that appertained to the EU from 1993 onwards were alway overturned by the high court but they were never against the EU.

This particular challenge is good thing to me. Partly because the country does not have a proper leader (like the USA only not for 8 years at this point) but more of an administrator. What I would like to see, but it probably won't happen because the supreme court in December will overturn it unfortunately, is for Parliament to vote down the government on this.
That would then trigger a General Election, which is what should have happened already. This would be very good news for parties like UKIP and very bad news for any MP that voted to overturn the government.

Exciting times ahead. Especially if they can also get rid of royalty once and for all.


----------



## NYC Composer

Have y'all considered a duel?


----------



## Baron Greuner

I'll fucking fight anyone, anytime!


----------



## chimuelo

We should have duels again.
If lust and greed for cash rules we are no better than animals.
May as well stop pretending and shoot it out.
I would prefer using my Benjamin Air Bow though.
In case of 2nd chance body armor or Kevlar my 465fps dart will find the target.


----------



## Soundhound

The Cubs win. At this pace, next one is in 2124, when children will learn in their history books how Donald Trump won the presidency and the united states broke up into New Cali and Murica. Well, people in New Cali will read about it, residents of Murica will be told the tale by the cave elders.


----------



## chimuelo

My great grandmother predicted Northern Mexico years ago.

She insisted we be bi lingual as her prediction of failing Liberal Union schools would create a mass of low math, single language Liberal hatchings, unable to feed themselves.

HRC has this race.
You can't beat foreign governments, white house. IRS DOJ State and wealthy white billionaires, you'll see.


----------



## Ashermusic

My wife's mother was born in Ireland so she can get Irish citizenship. Good to know if Trump wins.


----------



## Soundhound

I know, it was just the logical place to go with the Cubs story. Clinton is in, but it will be way too close for comfort. The Senate will probably remain in the hands of the american taliban, thanks to Elder Comey.



chimuelo said:


> My great grandmother predicted Northern Mexico years ago.
> 
> She insisted we be bi lingual as her prediction of failing Liberal Union schools would create a mass of low math, single language Liberal hatchings, unable to feed themselves.
> 
> HRC has this race.
> You can't beat foreign governments, white house. IRS DOJ State and wealthy white billionaires, you'll see.


----------



## chimuelo

The design has been in place for years.
Bernie and Trump simply made global billionaires and governments pay more to the Foundation to secure thier investments.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Assuming Trump wins, let's go with his wonderful promises, one of which is his China Wall, I want to understand who the hell is going to pay for it? The last I heard, there was no agreement to this with the Mexican president. And then I hear, Americans will pay for it and Mexicans will reimburse, still with no agreement to this with Mexican president. So meanwhile where will he get the money? Raising taxes? He promised he wouldn't do that.


----------



## Soundhound

Trump just makes shit up, he doesn't think about any of it seriously. He's a con man, a sleazy used car salesman (not to denigrate all used car salesmen!), he says whatever will get the most rise out of a crowd.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Hillary has got a lot of shit with Obamacare, well what do you expect? This works well only in countries which pay more taxes, such as in Canada, our health system is envious of other countries, but we pay higher taxes. I can't wait to see how Trump will pull this off without raising taxes. Trump = joke of the century.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> I contacted Chris Hein to ask for a multi racial GUI on Solo Violin as it's hard to perform since the tiny player that follows along is white and should have options for other races.
> Possibly transparent like the Obama administration so nobody would be offended.
> But even then my Girlfriend was offended because the hand had no nail polish so she became traumatized.


Very funny post. Loved it.


----------



## Soundhound

She tried to get single payer healthcare though in the early 90s and was stopped by the right wing and their employers. Maybe she can make it happen now. If the dems don't win the Senate though, fuggetaboutit.



Guy Bacos said:


> Hillary has got a lot of shit with Obamacare, well what do you expect? This works well only in countries which pay more taxes, such as in Canada, our health system is envious of other countries, but we pay higher taxes. I can't wait to see how Trump will pull this off without raising taxes. Trump = joke of the century.


----------



## chimuelo

Ankyu.
I'm doing my part for the community by building stage props in the racist midwestern town of Paducah.
They beg me to PLAY in the shows but I prefer building the props and designing lighting.
I can't groove to Mary Poppins.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Ankyu.
> I'm doing my part for the community by building stage props in the racist midwestern town of Paducah.
> They beg me to PLAY in the shows but I prefer building the props and designing lighting.
> I can't groove to Mary Poppins.


Oh come, who can't groove to this:

Unless of course you're carrying a bazooka. I used to own a real bazooka, from World War 1. I would try to find a Google image of it and post it, but that would invade people's safe spaces, and we can't have that, can we?


----------



## chimuelo

Nick can step in as a grief counselor


----------



## chimuelo

Awesome little theater though.


----------



## chimuelo

Downtown is rich with racist culture and they retired the old train as it caused the river to rise from excess CO2.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Nick can step in as a grief counselor


The "Give People Grief" Counselor.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> Awesome little theater though.


It is a nice little theater. Reminds me of the good old days when I was an actor, more than 20 years ago. Played Fezziwig from Scrooge for a Christmas Dinner Theater once. I wanted the role of Tom Jenkins, the hot soup man. Was a spoiled brat about it, should've been fired. Thank Heaven they were more mature than me.


----------



## chimuelo

Everything is named to honor all of the Indians white racists killed.
They even have a Street named Warren, so I assume it's for the Senator with the Jimmy Stewart voice who leads the war on women, banks and evil whites.


----------



## robh

Soundhound said:


> Atheism is not what drove Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot to do what they did. It's a fallacy the religious right uses to try and say 'see, you guys do it too!'
> 
> I do want all voices heard. And in this country you can't be elected to national office if you don't say you believe in god. So all voices are not being heard. It's changing, and we'll get past it, but it could take a very long time. The religious right is deeply political, and deeply un-American, in the sense of a place where everyone is free to believe, or not believe, as they choose.


Ahem. I said "atheistic ideology." I include "atheistic" because there definitely had/has been murder, torture and imprisonment of those who would not give up their faith - who would not conform to, "There is no god."


----------



## Soundhound

Ahem, you are trying to create a false equivalency, to what end I'm not sure. One more time, atheism is not a belief system, science is not a belief system. Religion is a belief system. There's a critical difference. True believers are highly susceptible to illogical thinking, it's the opposite of the scientific method, they decide on the outcome first, then cherry pick information to support it. People will kill to support their belief system, they don't kill to support the scientific method. 

Here's a short synopsis of the idea:

http://atheism.about.com/od/isatheismdangerous/a/AtheismKilled.htm


----------



## chimuelo

You ungrateful heathen.


----------



## Soundhound

We are having a golden idol get together at the PeachTree City devil worship club this friday night, if anyone's in town. 



chimuelo said:


> You ungrateful heathen.


----------



## passsacaglia

chimuelo said:


> Downtown is rich with racist culture and they retired the old train as it caused the river to rise from excess CO2.


Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahha...hahahaahahha......hahahahaha.... 

ps. Are you in SWEDEN??! .. 



*DSC_0325.JPG* AND you aren't TELLIN ME?! 

(looks like sweden)


----------



## chimuelo

Ohio River after the fog lifts.
Beautiful town though.
City is full of music, art and historical museums of thier racist lifestyle.

Kentucky women are the real feminists.
These chicks will whoop your ass and shoot you in a heartbeat.
Big NRA State here.
State Song even talks about shooting somebody.

Thought we were going to raise the lighting trusses and found out they call riggers from Nashville.
They called to cancel so I said screw those guys, I'll tie them off.

Then came the namby pamby stage manager crying about Union rules, etc.
I told them I am a certified rigger and scaffling man so they nervously agreed.
You climb a ladder and hoist up a truss, no big deal.

A bunch of putos made the job last 10 times longer due to bull shit OSHA regulations.
They had me wear dual lanyards, a miller safety harness and looked like Jaque fuckin Cousteau to climb a 28 foot ladder.

This is voluntary work, no pay.
I just miss the showrooms so this will do for now.

What a bunch of girly men though.


----------



## robh

Soundhound said:


> Ahem, you are trying to create a false equivalency, to what end I'm not sure. One more time, atheism is not a belief system, science is not a belief system. Religion is a belief system. There's a critical difference. True believers are highly susceptible to illogical thinking, it's the opposite of the scientific method, they decide on the outcome first, then cherry pick information to support it. People will kill to support their belief system, they don't kill to support the scientific method.
> 
> Here's a short synopsis of the idea:
> 
> http://atheism.about.com/od/isatheismdangerous/a/AtheismKilled.htm


No, I'm stating truth. People of faith have been persecuted by communist regimes for not renouncing their belief in a god. In religious terms, for not converting to atheism. 
Again, I did not say "atheism." I said "atheistic ideology" which to me is an ideology rooted or influenced by atheism. Communism is such an ideology.

To me, you use the word "religion" in the same way you accuse me of using "atheism". "Religion" doesn't kill people. People kill people, and use religion as a justification for it, often in spite of what the religion is actually telling them.

It seems to me you are now making a false equivalency of atheism and science. Science is about studying and investigating how the physical world works. Atheism is the belief that there are no metaphysical influences.


----------



## Soundhound

No I said atheism and science are not belief systems, as religion is. Atheism is not a religion, though the primitive religious right tries to create that false equivalency. 

Did you read the piece I posted? Did you understand it? From your post it seems not. But that's not surprising.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Ashermusic said:


> My wife's mother was born in Ireland so she can get Irish citizenship. Good to know if Trump wins.



That's awesome because if you move there, everytime they have a vote on the EU, you can just keep having another go until you vote for the result that they want.


----------



## JonFairhurst

It's amazing how much I've learned about the candidate and party policies in the last few pages of this thread.

All signal. No noise.

[SARCASM_MODE]


----------



## Soundhound

My wife is a Kentucky woman, a total feminist, and is pretty much ready to shoot anyone who votes for Donald Trump. She's also staunchly pro union, works in the film industry making insanely gigantic superhero movies. You guys would hit it off bigtime getting those theater sets together talking politics, firing each other, would be something to see.




chimuelo said:


> Ohio River after the fog lifts.
> Beautiful town though.
> City is full of music, art and historical museums of thier racist lifestyle.
> 
> Kentucky women are the real feminists.
> These chicks will whoop your ass and shoot you in a heartbeat.
> Big NRA State here.
> State Song even talks about shooting somebody.
> 
> Thought we were going to raise the lighting trusses and found out they call riggers from Nashville.
> They called to cancel so I said screw those guys, I'll tie them off.
> 
> Then came the namby pamby stage manager crying about Union rules, etc.
> I told them I am a certified rigger and scaffling man so they nervously agreed.
> You climb a ladder and hoist up a truss, no big deal.
> 
> A bunch of putos made the job last 10 times longer due to bull shit OSHA regulations.
> They had me wear dual lanyards, a miller safety harness and looked like Jaque fuckin Cousteau to climb a 28 foot ladder.
> 
> This is voluntary work, no pay.
> I just miss the showrooms so this will do for now.
> 
> What a bunch of girly men though.


----------



## NYC Composer

Just read a book that was partially about Kentucky women. Book called "Hillbilly Elegy". Sort of interesting.


----------



## Soundhound

My xmas list thanks you.



NYC Composer said:


> Just read a book that was partially about Kentucky women. Book called "Hillbilly Elegy". Sort of interesting.


----------



## NYC Composer

Might want to think about it. Author worked his way out of a hillbilly culture partially via the Marines,, went to Yale, became a conservative lawyer.


----------



## Guy Bacos

How serious do you take the possibility of hillary being indicted?


----------



## NYC Composer

Depends if she becomes President.


----------



## Soundhound

Read a little writeup, definitely sounds interesting, she's big on genealogy, though hates the politics of her homeland with a passion. It's why she's less enthused than I am about living here in Murica for a while. For me it's visiting a foreign land, for her it's returning to the kind of place she couldn't wait to get the hell out of as a kid. 



NYC Composer said:


> Might want to think about it. Author worked his way out of a hillbilly culture partially via the Marines,, went to Yale, became a conservative lawyer.


----------



## Soundhound

Somewhere between 0% and 0.0000%, depending on the source material.



Guy Bacos said:


> How serious do you take the possibility of hillary being indicted?


----------



## Guy Bacos




----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> Somewhere between 0% and 0.0000%, depending on the source material.



Are you saying all the medias are saying these things just for ratings and sensationalism?


----------



## chimuelo

Kentucky history is rich.
Turkish and Sicilian communities were here in the 1830s.
Split off for Sutters Mill.
I actually have coins my great great racist granddaddy left for me below.
Me and the brothers split up 30 coins weighing from 28gr to 42gr.

Ashley Judd has blood from the same la familia....
They were called the black Turks. And the Sicilian were called Phoenicians.

Really fascinating to see hillbilly Sicilian that ended up selling thier farms from the huge dam project back in the late 19th.
I have tried to meet with an Uncle Tony and an Aunt Della but no PC.
Want to meet relatives but the records are hard to use.
Census from the early 30s and an old address in Calvert City is all I have.

But real Kentucky culture and history fascinates me.
The 10 coins are worth 18 months of Chimuelo pay.
The weight alone on the smallest coin is 1900 USD.....


----------



## Soundhound

It seems like that's all I ever say these days! Watch the movie Network, that pretty much tells the tale.



Guy Bacos said:


> Are you saying all the medias are saying these things just for ratings and sensationalism?


----------



## Soundhound

I need to learn more about this! I thought of Kentuckians as scotch irish, etc. My wife's heritage is english, french, scottish, a little dutch I think, farmers. Her mother's maiden name is Myers, that family came from germany sometime in the early 1800s and the supposition that the spelling was changed from the jewish spelling. Or she made that up to make my mother happy. No way of knowing.  






chimuelo said:


> Kentucky history is rich.
> Turkish and Sicilian communities were here in the 1830s.
> Split off for Sutters Mill.
> I actually have coins my great great racist granddaddy left for me below.
> Me and the brothers split up 30 coins weighing from 28gr to 42gr.
> 
> Ashley Judd has blood from the same la familia....
> They were called the black Turks. And the Sicilian were called Phoenicians.
> 
> Really fascinating to see hillbilly Sicilian that ended up selling thier farms from the huge dam project back in the late 19th.
> I have tried to meet with an Uncle Tony and an Aunt Della but no PC.
> Want to meet relatives but the records are hard to use.
> Census from the early 30s and an old address in Calvert City is all I have.
> 
> But real Kentucky culture and history fascinates me.
> The 10 coins are worth 18 months of Chimuelo pay.
> The weight alone on the smallest coin is 1900 USD.....


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> It seems like that's all I ever say these days! Watch the movie Network, that pretty much tells the tale.



I'm not naive, but I disagree, there are many reporters and journalists out there that are trustworthy, and they've proven that over the years, I'm not going to put them all in the same bag. Besides, when a network or reporter has a reputation of dramatizing everything, it usually gets that reputation and other ones are known to be more reliable.


----------



## chimuelo

Everybody seemed to come through the Cumberland and Tennessee Valley.
Here's a favorite picnic spot where Ulysseus Grant and Northern racists came down the Ohio to the Cumberland, then went to kill southern racists manning hills full of these Cannons.
Grant used the Ironclad Battleships in the fight for Fort Donnelson.
It's cool because there are cannonball stuck in trees, etc.
Well preserved battlefield where white northern racists fought white southern racists to free black racists.

American history is amazing. Folks were so eager to die for freedom, of themselves and others.
Too bad they don't teach the whiney little bitches how so many died so they could be offended everyday.


----------



## Soundhound

I'm overstating for fun, but only to a degree. It's a combination of the 24 hour news cycle and the endless fight for ratings, and the endless witch hunt that has been the right wing's obsession with Hillary Clinton since the early 90s. It's all bullshit.




Guy Bacos said:


> I'm not naive, but I disagree, there are many reporters and journalists out there that are trustworthy, and they've proven that over the years, I'm not going to put them all in the same bag. Besides, when a network or reporter has a reputation of dramatizing everything, it usually gets that reputation and other ones are known to be more reliable.


----------



## Soundhound

We were just talking about Grant the other night. Apparently he was a more moral guy than many at that time. Have to reread, but something about giving a guy his freedom who had been a slave...sounded like a pretty low bar but forward thinking for the time...



chimuelo said:


> Everybody seemed to come through the Cumberland and Tennessee Valley.
> Here's a favorite picnic spot where Ulysseus Grant and Northern racists came down the Ohio to the Cumberland, then went to kill southern racists manning hills full of these Cannons.
> Grant used the Ironclad Battleships in the fight for Fort Donnelson.
> It's cool because there are cannonball stuck in trees, etc.
> Well preserved battlefield where white northern racists fought white southern racists to free black racists.
> 
> American history is amazing. Folks were so eager to die for freedom, of themselves and others.
> Too bad they don't teach the whiney little bitches how so many died so they could be offended everyday.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Guy, there is nothing to indict her for. The whole thing is astoundingly stupid.


----------



## chimuelo

Karnak has spoken.

There's no law preventing selling arms to other countries and getting a %.

I'd have every synth and Bimbo in the world if I were Bill.

But hundreds of millions is nothing compared to what they're going to make in the Oval Office.

I can't wait to see the intersections they create for politics and cash.

It will be historical.

Then they can buy Liberals like so many nickels and dimes.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> There's no law preventing selling arms to other countries and getting a %.



No law saying you can't go into a country, wreck it, and have your country rebuild it, thereby profiting the company you still hold vast amounts of stock in. The beauty part is, you don't even have to have a foundation that saves people from disease and cyclical famine-just go and rape the Ametican people and take their money. 

While you're there, why not appoint a strutting overlord/viceroy and disband the army and police on the basis of his learned advice, thereby completely destabilizing the country so our soldiers can go there and get fucked up.

Oh, and while you're at it, make new rules allowing torture and have your 19 year old National Guardsmen torture prisoners.

Hey, when we get tired of war profiteering, having spent all our cash, why don't we look the other way as a housing bubble inflates, punctures and leaves the country in the worst mess since 1929.

Those Clintons sure are corrupt. Can't wait for the new, clean fiduciarily responsible conservative Republican pussy grabbers to take charge. They'll straighten this shit out.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I think Trump should have a phalanx of obese lesbians that come on stage with him and point at the audience in a meaningless manner. I would vote for him and all he stood for if this was the case and I was allowed to vote. It would have to be a postal vote though.


----------



## NYC Composer

I think Parliament should be descended on by a horde of obese Corgis and an old lady. I'd definitely vote for Brexit then, especially if the Corgis were all trained to shit simultaneously on M.O.P.s.. Have to be an absentee ballot though.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Guy, there is nothing to indict her for. The whole thing is astoundingly stupid.



You're probably a wiser person than me, maybe I'm too gullible, I don't know what to think anymore. If you're a republican, she will be locked up, if you're a democrat, it's astoundingly stupid.


----------



## Baron Greuner

But with a murder of obese lesbians, Trump wouldn't have to point. The fat girls could do all the pointing for him. Hillary points a lot, and I think that could cost her the election. She should have delegated all pointing to her lesbian team. There's a lesbian gap here that could be exploited for certain victory for one side or the other. I'm amazed advisers have missed this obvious ploy.


----------



## Soundhound

Nobody with any kind of knowledge about the situation thinks she should be locked up, democrat, republican or otherwise. It's the morons who are voting for Trump (and then only a percentage, 10%?) who think that. There are Hillary for Prison signs in my neighborhood, having moved to a red state recently. I spoke to one of them in passing, and didn't talk politics. She was perfectly nice, and really, I mean, really really, stupid. You can't think Hillary should be in prison and have any brains. Can't be done.



Guy Bacos said:


> You're probably a wiser person than me, maybe I'm too gullible, I don't know what to think anymore. If you're a republican, she will be locked up, if you're a democrat, it's astoundingly stupid.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> Nobody with any kind of knowledge about the situation thinks she should be locked up, democrat, republican or otherwise. It's the morons who are voting for Trump (and then only a percentage, 10%?) who think that. There are Hillary for Prison signs in my neighborhood, having moved to a red state recently. I spoke to one of them in passing, and didn't talk politics. She was perfectly nice, and really, I mean, really really, stupid. You can't think Hillary should be in prison and have any brains. Can't be done.



I guess one of the morons include Rudy Giuliani, listen to what he says. Also reporters such as Sean Hannity from FOX or (big mouth) Judge Jeanine Pirro and many other respected journalists I could name, agree that the punishment should be severe. I don't think these people are morons, except maybe for senile Rudy.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

I don't know who Judge is, but Sean Hannity is in the dictionary under "moron."

There is not going to be any punishment. She set up a private email server. Jesus, is that the best they've got?!


----------



## NYC Composer

Guy, you respect Sean Hannity and Jeanine Pirro as journalists?


----------



## Guy Bacos

NYC Composer said:


> Guy, you respect Sean Hannity and Jeanine Pirro as journalists?



I didn't say that, I said they are not morons, and look like intelligent people, making a contrast to Soundhound's statement.

Nick, and what about Rudy? He's got her locked up in the worst cell.


----------



## NYC Composer

Wdll, you said they were among ""many other respected journalists." Respected by some perhaps, certainly not by me.
I don't use terms like "morons", but there's a lot of space between "morons" and "respected."


----------



## Guy Bacos

Just to get the quotes straight. I din't say I respected these people as journalists, in fact, I don't. However, they are well respected in the media. I know that doesn't say much, but my point is, they are not part of the 10% morons.


----------



## NYC Composer

These things are subjective, but I take your point


----------



## Red

Well Guy, this is the election where Julian Assange is now a liar and Russia is once again engaging in a dick measuring contest (or so they say)

Liars and thieves run amok when there aren't consequences

and we just saw the 2 heads of DNC lie and steal -> get caught -> get a promotion or a new job. (Literally twice in a row back to back)

Of course 50% the TV is lying.

The late George Carlin had a solution for this, although I do hope there are other ways. Bloodshed.


----------



## Guy Bacos

The more I follow this election, the more I find it disgusting. For example, the FBI should be impartial, but it seems depending on what party you are part of, you will want to use your power to influence the election. Now, to americans this is probably old, but as a Canadian, not only this is never an issue here, but I find that so retarded, makes me lose respect for the american electoral system.


----------



## Soundhound

Sean Hannity is absolutely a moron. Rudy Giuliani is a political hack of the worst possible kind. Judge Jeanine Pirro is a Fox News propagandist. (Do you watch Fox News by the way? Say it ain't so...!) I would be interested in any respected journalists you could name to support this. I can't think of one.



Guy Bacos said:


> I guess one of the morons include Rudy Giuliani, listen to what he says. Also reporters such as Sean Hannity from FOX or (big mouth) and many other respected journalists I could name, agree that the punishment should be severe. I don't think these people are morons, except maybe for senile Rudy.


----------



## Soundhound

Well respected in the media? You haven't watched Network yet, have you? It'll not only give you a great foreshadowing of what happened to the media in America, it's also one of the great movies ever made.



Guy Bacos said:


> Just to get the quotes straight. I din't say I respected these people as journalists, in fact, I don't. However, they are well respected in the media. I know that doesn't say much, but my point is, they are not part of the 10% morons.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> Sean Hannity is absolutely a moron. Rudy Giuliani is a political hack of the worst possible kind. Judge Jeanine Pirro is a Fox News propagandist. (Do you watch Fox News by the way? Say it ain't so...!) I would be interested in any respected journalists you could name to support this. I can't think of one.



I watch a bit of everything, I like to hear what guests, senators, governors, Trump, Hillary, campaign manager, supporters, surrogates, correspondents, etc have to say. I navigate between different networks so I can hear as many as possible. Including the morons.


----------



## Soundhound

So do I, but I would never mistake anyone on Fox News for a journalist.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> Well respected in the media? You haven't watched Network yet, have you? It'll not only give you a great foreshadowing of what happened to the media in America, it's also one of the great movies ever made.



I saw the trailer, will watch it soon, but I have a sense of the message. Well, you don't have to agree with everything they say, sometimes I think they are brilliant, and other times I can't understand them. That's their style, more provocative. Anderson Cooper is more neutral, rarely in controversy, different style.


----------



## NYC Composer

Chris Wallace.


----------



## Guy Bacos

NYC Composer said:


> Chris Wallace.



What about Chris?


----------



## Guy Bacos

Yes, Chris is with FOX.


----------



## Red

There's a few on FOX that's trustworthy.

I found them to be Megyn Kelly, Chris Wallace, and Bill O'Reilly.

All assholes but few honest individuals. Well, as honest as a news anchor can be.

I know people find Bill obnoxious but
he shows unusual amount of insight whenever he's on Colbert.


----------



## NYC Composer

I was saying I consider Chris Wallace to be a journalist, as opposed to 'hound saying there aren't any on Fox. Maybe Kelly as well.


----------



## Soundhound

Bill O'Reilly is as full of shit as anyone on TV the last fifty years, and that's a very low bar. He's as much to blame for the wave of hate and misinformation that led the way to Donald Trump's candidacy as anyone.

Guy, I'll give you Chris Wallace. I don't think he's considered a respected journalist, but he's not a complete hack as most on Fox News are. I always wondered what his father thought of him. Mike Wallace was an Edward R Murrow era old style, hard nosed journalist. Apparently the father and son Wallaces were not very close, which isn't a surprise.


----------



## NYC Composer

I discount Bill O'Reilly immediately if for no other reason than the odious idea that his program is the "no-spin zone."
What utter nonsense. In any case, O'Reilly is an entertainer (and a very successful one) like most of television media.


----------



## Soundhound

Unfortunately he's not seen as an entertainer by Fox News watchers. He's their Howard Beale. That's how stupid they are.


----------



## Guy Bacos

I'm glad I see the name Megyn Kelly, I don't understand why she is despised by so many, I guess being a strong women and these days not a Trump supporter... But I really like her, she's very smart, honest and has a good sense of humour.

Bill O'Reilly, some days I dig him and other times he seems like a jerk and full of himself, not worth 18M/year!

Chris Wallace is good, of course.

I like Brianna Keilar, young but smart woman, great with interviews.


----------



## Soundhound

I don't think Chris Wallace is of course good. He seems a passable anchor. In the world of good journalism, he's unremarkable. On Fox News, I guess he seems like Walter Cronkite. (sorry uncle walter...)

Megan Kelly pushed the right wing agenda for her first years on Fox, with racist rants about the new black panther party, muslims, and nanny-state, drudge report style analysis. But the last few years what I've seen of her she seems to be growing up some. She wasn't trained as a journalist but maybe she's smart and learning on the job.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Wallace was by far the best moderator in all 3 debates.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> I don't think Chris Wallace is of course good. He seems a passable anchor. In the world of good journalism, he's unremarkable. On Fox News, I guess he seems like Walter Cronkite. (sorry uncle walter...)
> 
> Megan Kelly pushed the right wing agenda for her first years on Fox, with racist rants about the new black panther party, muslims, and nanny-state, drudge report style analysis. But the last few years what I've seen of her she seems to be growing up some. She wasn't trained as a journalist but maybe she's smart and learning on the job.



Would you be a closet FOX watcher? you seem to know enough on the staff. 

I'm just a bit surprised because you said, and I quote: "Do you watch Fox News by the way? Say it ain't so...!"


----------



## Soundhound

I watch them now and then, as much as I can stand. It's painful, sad and stupid, but it's the only way to understand how most right wing people think the way they do. I used to listen to right wing radio once in a while, but haven't much the last years, it's like listening to Third Reich Radio, just awful.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Guy Bacos said:


> The more I follow this election, the more I find it disgusting. For example, the FBI should be impartial, but it seems depending on what party you are part of, you will want to use your power to influence the election. Now, to americans this is probably old, but as a Canadian, not only this is never an issue here, but I find that so retarded, makes me lose respect for the american electoral system.


Here's the thing about being offended by things. Every single one of us will be offended by certain things, and every single one of us will do/say things that offend other people. For instance, you were very offended by a photo of a gun, but you use the term "retarded" as an insult, which I reckon most people would find much more offensive.


----------



## Soundhound

Yes his decision to 'not be a fact checker' must have made real journalists very proud. Edward R Murrow spinning like a top one imagines. An alarming dereliction of duty. But at least he didn't roll over and play dead. The bar is loooooooooowwww...



Guy Bacos said:


> Wallace was by far the best moderator in all 3 debates.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Michael K. Bain said:


> Here's the thing about being offended by things. Every single one of us will be offended by certain things, and every single one of us will do/say things that offend other people. For instance, you were very offended by a photo of a gun, but you use the term "retarded" as an insult, which I reckon most people would find much more offensive.



Oh come on now!

We're not going to get in a debate of what's politically correct on every word we say, are we? People have used certain expressions all their lives, they can't convert 100% all the time to what's politically correct today, so there should be some tolerance when one slips. But if I offended someone, I apologize, it's an old habit. The gun is a different issue, and was unanimous.


----------



## Soundhound

I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't think the tv fucks' agenda is pointed at anything other than making money. So the political results are uncoordinated and short sighted, chaos, essentially. Even the ones who are politically driven, like Roger Ailes, are more intent on selling advertising time than anything else. Ailes is just one of the lucky ones, having been able to make a living doing what he loves, promoting a right wing agenda.


----------



## Baron Greuner

In the UK, the BBC have a left wing agenda. Sky Television have a pro EU agenda. Fox TV have a pro right wing agenda and CNN have another agenda. Newspapers all have agendas.

Last night I watched Sky Papers review at 10.30 pm and couldn't strop laughing because it focused on the high court challenge almost entirely. You have one left wing and one right wing asshole put together by Sky TV for maximum comic value.

I wouldn't worry about all of this though. I would be worrying about the RSL. Once the RSL start out-pointing the ASL and the BSL, then we're in all trouble.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Guy Bacos said:


> Michael, I'd invite you to open a separate thread: "Gun control vs gun rights" since you seem highly sensitive on the subject.


I really can't believe what I'm reading. Surely you are just ribbing me, right? Surely the one who was so ultra sensitive as to be offended by a photo of a gun is not calling me sensitive about the subject, right?


----------



## Soundhound

I have no idea about UK politics I'm afraid, aside from the fact that Brexit seems to have been a very Trump-like move. The brits that I know living in the U.S. were all mortified. Actually the family renting our house in L.A. just moved from London and are similarly depressed about the whole thing.






Baron Greuner said:


> In the UK, the BBC have a left wing agenda. Sky Television have a pro EU agenda. Fox TV have a pro right wing agenda and CNN have another agenda. Newspapers all have agendas.
> 
> Last night I watched Sky Papers review at 10.30 pm and couldn't strop laughing because it focused on the high court challenge almost entirely. You have one left wing and one right wing asshole put together by Sky TV for maximum comic value.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about all of this though. I would worrying about the RSL. Once the RSL start out-pointing the ASL and the BSL, then we're in all trouble.


----------



## Soundhound

Being against guns isn't ultra sensitive. It's common sense. 



Michael K. Bain said:


> I really can't believe what I'm reading. Surely you are just ribbing me, right? Surely the one who was so ultra sensitive as to be offended by a photo of a gun is not calling me sensitive about the subject, right?


----------



## Guy Bacos

I've noticed with gun owners, in general, when be interviewed, and again, this is in general, they seem so be threatened to have their guns taken away when discussing the subject and usually have an aggressive reaction when you oppose their view, or in this case, being suspicious of this. Moral of the story is, keep you mouth shut with gun owners.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yes but most London people are left wing twats. What they have forgotten in the media is that London is just one small area in the United Kingdom. Most people that live in London aren't actually English, never mind made up words like British. Nobody in the greater UK gives a flying fuck about what the inhabitants of London care about.
This is the misconception of the Americans. In typical American fashion, the only place they've ever heard of in England is London. 
London overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU because most of them are shit scared about being deported. London has become a dumping ground of the flotsam and jetsam of third world bullshit. Or people like the French who can't stand to be near their President. London is an anomaly. It is not really part of the UK in the real sense. 

Now before you start thinking (don't think btw) most of my people are Londoners.


----------



## passsacaglia

Is it just me? I have a feeling Trump will win, or he have a crazy big chance winning. 
Have a good Friday boyz!


----------



## robh

Soundhound said:


> No I said atheism and science are not belief systems, as religion is. Atheism is not a religion, though the primitive religious right tries to create that false equivalency.
> 
> Did you read the piece I posted? Did you understand it? From your post it seems not. But that's not surprising.


I did read it, and I disagree with several points. Having been an atheist in the past, I disagree with some of what it has to say, although I can understand why an atheist would say it. A belief that there is no god is still a belief (even if you are adamant that you "know" it to be true) and that belief shapes your worldview, and you develop a system out of it. It may look different from other atheists, but it still has shaped your outlook on life.

The reason I thought you were making false equivalency is that you stated that atheism and the scientific method aren't belief systems and later stated that people "don't kill to support the scientific method." 

And why did you say, "Did you understand it?. . .But that's not surprising."


----------



## Soundhound

Actually I'd say about half the people I know in London are right wing, quite right wing in some cases, and they were all horrified about it. Some are english, some are irish, some scottish. Some are family, and so right wing we don't discuss politics. None are in danger of being deported.

I forgot how radically right wing you are. Thanks for reminding me. Now go build a wall.



Baron Greuner said:


> Yes but most London people are left wing twats. What they have forgotten in the media is that London is just one small area in the United Kingdom. Most people that live in London aren't actually English, never mind made up words like British. Nobody in the greater UK gives a flying fuck about what the inhabitants of London care about.
> This is the misconception of the Americans. In typical American fashion, the only place they've ever heard of in England is London.
> London overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU because most of them are shit scared about being deported. London has become a dumping ground of the flotsam and jetsam of third world bullshit. Or people like the French who can't stand to be near their President. London is an anomaly. It is not really part of the UK in the real sense.
> 
> Now before you start thinking (don't think btw) most of my people are Londoners.


----------



## Soundhound

Religious people like to try to say that atheism is a belief system, but it's not. Atheism is the absence of a belief, not a belief in itself. I believe there is no god, but if I were to see proof that there is, I'd be religious. I don't walk around trying to keep the 'atheistic faith'. Quite the opposite, I hardly think about it. When I meet people who are religious I'm often interested (if they are not proselytizing that is) because I don't understand how the thought process works, other than wish fulfillment/denial. To me in order to believe in god you have to make a leap of faith, and I've never seen a reason for that.

Regardless, equating religion and atheism as belief systems is a canard. It takes the discussion out of the personal and theoretical and into the political. It's a feel good end run around logic for religious people. The reason I said the last bit about understanding the piece I posted was because it seemed to me that you don't want to understand what the piece is saying, rather than actually not understanding it.

As I've been saying in this thread, the idea of belief in the supernatural, religion, whatever one calls it, is clearly a very personal thing, and can't be sussed out and argued. Well it can be, and I love doing it, but people get their backs up very easily about it.

You believe in god or you don't, or you're not sure, or whatever. It's everyone's right. Anyone against that right is making the world a worse place.





robh said:


> I did read it, and I disagree with several points. Having been an atheist in the past, I disagree with some of what it has to say, although I can understand why an atheist would say it. A belief that there is no god is still a belief (even if you are adamant that you "know" it to be true) and that belief shapes your worldview, and you develop a system out of it. It may look different from other atheists, but it still has shaped your outlook on life.
> 
> The reason I thought you were making false equivalency is that you stated that atheism and the scientific method aren't belief systems and later stated that people "don't kill to support the scientific method."
> 
> And why did you say, "Did you understand it?. . .But that's not surprising."


----------



## sleepy hollow

Will you guys throw a big party once this thread reaches 250/500/1000 pages?

Just a quick question from someone who isn't really following this discussion.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Don't talk shit SH. You obviously have no idea of the political demography of London. Take a look at the seats breakdown before you mouth off like a typical fucking yank.


----------



## Soundhound

I said as much, you cunt. That's what my brit friends call chickenshits and assholes, as best I understand the translation. Make you feel more at home? Cunt?


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

I'm trying not to laugh, but please refrain from calling each other names.

"All fucking yanks mouth off" is legal. "All Brits are cunts" is legal. "You cunt" or "you fucking yank" is a personal insult, and only I am allowed to issue those on this forum.


----------



## robh

Soundhound said:


> Religious people like to try to say that atheism is a belief system, but it's not. Atheism is the absence of a belief, not a belief in itself. I believe there is no god, but if I were to see proof that there is, I'd be religious. I don't walk around trying to keep the 'atheistic faith'. Quite the opposite, I hardly think about it. When I meet people who are religious I'm often interested (if they are not proselytizing that is) because I don't understand how the thought process works, other than wish fulfillment/denial. To me in order to believe in god you have to make a leap of faith, and I've never seen a reason for that.
> 
> Regardless, equating religion and atheism as belief systems is a canard. It takes the discussion out of the personal and theoretical and into the political. It's a feel good end run around logic for religious people. The reason I said the last bit about understanding the piece I posted was because it seemed to me that you don't want to understand what the piece is saying, rather than actually not understanding it.
> 
> As I've been saying in this thread, the idea of belief in the supernatural, religion, whatever one calls it, is clearly a very personal thing, and can't be sussed out and argued. Well it can be, and I love doing it, but people get their backs up very easily about it.
> 
> You believe in god or you don't, or you're not sure, or whatever. It's everyone's right. Anyone against that right is making the world a worse place.


The only thing that comes close to getting my back up is my being misrepresented in blanket statements. I usually don't engage, but I guess I'm bored this week. 
I did not become a religious person because of fear or as a coping mechanism, which your previous posts suggest is common for the religious. Statements like those you made are clothes that don't fit me. That is why I responded. Oh and if I came across as attacking you, or insulting, I apologize. Not my intention.

Rob


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

About religion/atheism, I think you guys are debating about two different orientations.

There are atheists who simply don't believe deities exist, and there are atheists with a strong belief on the other side of the theism coin.

And there are probably other variations. Most words along the same lines - especially "god" - mean different things to different people.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Crossed posts. robh's post about clothes not fitting him is very much what I'm saying.


----------



## Baron Greuner

He's never been anywhere and he doesn't know anything. I take him off the Ignore List for one day and he goes back on the same day. That's a record.


----------



## Soundhound

Sorry! I will be cognizant of that line in the sand, Nik, my apologies. I can, like, totally be mature about this. But Dad, he started it! 



Nick Batzdorf said:


> I'm trying not to laugh, but please refrain from calling each other names.
> 
> "All fucking yanks mouth off" is legal. "All Brits are cunts" is legal. "You cunt" or "you fucking yank" is a personal insult, and only I am allowed to issue those on this forum.


----------



## Soundhound

Since I'm on Adrian's ignore list can someone tell him next time I will try and make it even faster? Breaking records is kind of a hobby. 

What a monumental asshole that guy is. Nik can I do that? Third person? Or am I being a c... ?



Baron Greuner said:


> He's never been anywhere and he doesn't know anything. I take him off the Ignore List for one day and he goes back on the same day. That's a record.


----------



## Soundhound

Quite so. I'm not sure where I fall in that. If there were to be proof of the existence of a god, well there you go, there is a god. If the Knicks were to become a field hockey team, what am I gonna say? It is what it is.

But with what we know it seems obvious that there isn't, and I'm a much bigger fan of what the secular world is all about than the religious world. So there sit I.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> About religion/atheism, I think you guys are debating about two different orientations.
> 
> There are atheists who simply don't believe deities exist, and there are atheists with a strong belief on the other side of the theism coin.
> 
> And there are probably other variations. Most words along the same lines - especially "god" - mean different things to different people.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Txxxx losing by a landslide and the Democrats regaining both Houses would be proof enough for me.


----------



## Soundhound

I hear you. We're having our house painted and tons of stuff installed and I'm stuck here and everyone in the thread is paying the consequences. Not fair. 

I do have to be more careful about blanket statements like that, and I if I offended you I apologize. My soapbox in all this is predicated on the idea that I see much of the regressive politics of the last 30 years as a reaction to modernism. In the U.S., in the middle east and elsewhere. And unfortunately religion gets pulled into those politics. It's my contention that religion is a powerful tool used by those wielding power to get people to act as they want them to. 

The discussion of religion itself is separate from that, for me, and something I'm always interested in. Very hard to talk about it though without getting people upset. It's like getting involved in someone else's marriage, just not a good idea unless you're invited to do so. And even then, probably not a good idea. 

It's when religion is foisted upon others that I think the subject becomes fair game. The fact that there has never been, and as far as we can tell won't be in our lifetime, an atheist president of the united states is a terrible, regressive, indeed very un-American thing, and I hope that changes while I'm still around.




robh said:


> The only thing that comes close to getting my back up is my being misrepresented in blanket statements. I usually don't engage, but I guess I'm bored this week.
> I did not become a religious person because of fear or as a coping mechanism, which your previous posts suggest is common for the religious. Statements like those you made are clothes that don't fit me. That is why I responded. Oh and if I came across as attacking you, or insulting, I apologize. Not my intention.
> 
> Rob


----------



## Soundhound

If that happens I'll go to church every sunday. For a whole week.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Txxxx losing by a landslide and the Democrats regaining both Houses would be proof enough for me.


----------



## robh

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Txxxx losing by a landslide and the Democrats regaining both Houses would be proof enough for me.


If that happens, I'll pack up and move to Canada. Oh wait. I'm already in Canada. Maybe that's prophetic!


----------



## Baron Greuner

NB stepping in and removing the post: Baron, come on. Don't get your posts reported to the moderators.

I'm a moderator, and I approved this message.


----------



## Soundhound

Prophecy rocks.



robh said:


> If that happens, I'll pack up and move to Canada. Oh wait. I'm already in Canada. Maybe that's prophetic!


----------



## Soundhound

Now THIS is fun. He can't hear me, right? He can't hear me say that wretched old, broken down angry right wing men who think women who don't look like one of Trump's trollops shouldn't be allowed to hold political office (breath) make for lousy chat room opponents?

He can't hear me say that there is a word for people who put other people on ignore and then continue to rant and rave from behind the safety of their 2015 iMacs with 32 gigs of ram. He can't hear me when I say that word is pussy? 

Nik, I'm gonna need further instruction here regarding guidelines. Kicking my ass out would probably be less work though, I imagine...





Baron Greuner said:


> Is that fckng peasant ever going to post anything other than shite? Like say uhhhh some music?
> Fucking obese lesbian loving asshole of the first order.


----------



## NYC Composer

I'm sending the lot of you to bed with no dinner. No Gameboy for a week.


----------



## Soundhound

Aw, man. And the wife's out of town for a week. In the U.K. actually. You can't make this stuff up.


----------



## passsacaglia

NYC Composer said:


> I'm sending the lot of you to bed with no dinner. No Gameboy for a week.


Haha no gameboy for a week ! Best L!


----------



## chimuelo

That's worth a "Ankyu"....

In case folks don't understand what ANKYU is it's used in auditions to let someone know they will not be used in the show.
Here's 2 of the very best Ankyus ever used in film.


----------



## Soundhound

Is that The Producers? Gotta be... I thought your Ankyu was basic Vegas lounge entertainer patter. Can never get enough etymology...


----------



## chimuelo

Started with Phil Collins getting no applause in the video Sussudio airing on MTV.
But ANKYU has many meanings now.
Similar to Fahgeddaboutit in Donny Brasco with Johnny Depp and Pacino.

I use sampled audience clapping with key switched layers for crowd size, & additional whistles.
Have crickets, stooges and all of the Producers Ankyu's.....


----------



## NYC Composer

'Hound, please don't worry about the Baron. We have him in a charming facility, surrounded by kind and caring nurses with deep cleavages. During the day, they read him passages from "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead" to keep him calm. In the evenings, they feed him biscuits and blood pudding (made with the blood of liberals) and then they lock the door of his padded cell to make sure he doesn't injure himself.

Despite the increasing dementia, he's well cared for.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Just watching Sky Atlantic's The Hillary Clinton Problem and why Americans can't stand her. My theory is its partly because of fucking assholes like you. Its like most of America is hermetically sealed to the bog seat and you just get up without making a very large fart.
If only Trump could win this election and cancel all your benefits. That would be a hats off day.


----------



## NYC Composer

Was that for me, Adrian?


----------



## chimuelo

Meanwhile back at the Ranch.....

Regardless who your choices are make sure you vote.
This is really important.

Early voting isn't possible in most States, so don't forget.
Republicans must vote on November 8th.
Democrats vote November 9th.

Don't forget....


----------



## NYC Composer

....and remember to tip your waitress well, everyone wants their waitress to have big tips. Try the veal. I'm here all week. Republicans who use extended voting (Nov 10th) get a $50 cash bonus.


----------



## chimuelo

Chicago is insane today and likely for the weekend.
We sound checked after lunch crowds died off then went to park for 35 bucks or walk a few miles.
Insane but FESTIVE.

Liberals stopped shooting each other to honor the Cubs win.


----------



## NYC Composer

Didn't you post that "joke" previously?
Don't make me send you to Adrian's facility.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Rudy Giuliani, fuckin liar! Let's investigate this clown now!


----------



## NYC Composer

Actually, I like Adrian. He's funny as hell and talented. That I deplore his political views, well. I don't take them seriously. When he goes low, I go lower 

I think he needs his anger to fuel him. I need mine too, I just channel it in different ways. Some people see the 'net as a safe space to do so. I find it far too easy. I've always believed in Internet civility, and though far from perfect at it, I work at it. Adrian, not so much. 

This name calling thing disturbs me no end. I wish y'all could lay off.


----------



## Soundhound

I will. That's a lack of slack you cut that guy. i've seen a lot of his posts and never once seen anything funny. Angry, always. People who talk tough in the internet, ewwww...


----------



## NYC Composer

I do cut him a lot of slack, especially considering the names he just called me. Or you. Well, we're both bleeding liberals, and his anger paints with a broad brush, so prolly both.


----------



## Soundhound

Like one's personal religion, like marriage, friendship can't be deconstructed. I don't like your friend. Seems like a good place to leave it.


----------



## NYC Composer

Oh, I very much doubt Adrian thinks of me as his friend! I like him anyway


----------



## NoamL

Every day of this election I've been playing a fun game, called *"Y'All Imagine If Hillary Did This Shit?"
*
You too can play YIIHDTS at home - all you gotta do is take the latest Trump headline and invert it:

_Y'all imagine if Hillary said she wouldn't accept the outcome of the election?_

_Y'all imagine if Hillary promised to jail her opponent and said he shouldn't even be allowed to run?

Y'all imagine if Hillary was not under investigation, but actually due in court to face accusations of fraud the month after the election and rape the month after that?_

etc.

Today's edition:
_
Y'all imagine if a Hillary campaign surrogate admitted on television that highly placed gov't sources had been illegally feeding her information about investigations into her opponent?_

Seriously what the fuck does it take to move the dial anymore?


----------



## Soundhound

When fascists come to power, the dial doesn't move. Cult of personality is a powerful thing. That is what we're watching. Fingers crossed this doesn't happen.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Let's all gather around the campfire for a few moments. But instead of singing Kumbayah (not that there's anything wrong with that) in an effort to promote bonding, why don't we all pick one or two things more commonly associated with "the other side" that we agree with. I'll start.

Opposition to the Death Penalty is not usually associated with conservatives, but I think it should be. My main objection to it is that innocent people are executed sometimes. And even one innocent person executed is unacceptable.


----------



## NYC Composer

Classic point, Noam.


----------



## NoamL

NoamL said:


> Every day of this election I've been playing a fun game, called *"Y'All Imagine If Hillary Did This Shit?"
> *
> You too can play YIIHDTS at home - all you gotta do is take the latest Trump headline and invert it:
> 
> _Y'all imagine if Hillary said she wouldn't accept the outcome of the election?_
> 
> _Y'all imagine if Hillary promised to jail her opponent and said he shouldn't even be allowed to run?
> 
> Y'all imagine if Hillary was not under investigation, but actually due in court to face accusations of fraud the month after the election and rape the month after that?_
> 
> etc.
> 
> Today's edition:
> _
> Y'all imagine if a Hillary campaign surrogate admitted on television that highly placed gov't sources had been illegally feeding her information about investigations into her opponent?_
> 
> Seriously what the fuck does it take to move the dial anymore?




Check it out, even the President's getting in on the game! 

*“Imagine if I’d behaved in the way this man has. Imagine what Republicans would have said. Imagine what the press would have said. But now we act like I guess this is normal,” the president said as the deafening crowd here of 8,500 erupted into “No!”*


----------



## passsacaglia

NYC Composer said:


> ....and remember to tip your waitress well, everyone wants their waitress to have big tips. Try the veal. I'm here all week. Republicans who use extended voting (Nov 10th) get a $50 cash bonus.


- Dorsia? Yeah I'd like a reservation for two. 8 o' clock? 
- Ahaha...hahahaha...hahahaha....

Everyone needs a gritty Brit in their life. I have many, and I love them. For the same reason we love Baron. And we love you Larry (David), and we love Jimmy, and I hope you also love the youngster swede aka me?  
Today snow came to Stockholm, and it's shining. Lovely weather. You should all come here, you'd love it.

ANKYU


----------



## passsacaglia

chimuelo said:


> Started with Phil Collins getting no applause in the video Sussudio airing on MTV.
> But ANKYU has many meanings now.
> Similar to Fahgeddaboutit in Donny Brasco with Johnny Depp and Pacino.
> 
> I use sampled audience clapping with key switched layers for crowd size, & additional whistles.
> Have crickets, stooges and all of the Producers Ankyu's.....


For real?! Sussudio is legendary. <3


----------



## NYC Composer

Dorsia! You callin me an American Psycho??? Heh


----------



## passsacaglia

NYC Composer said:


> Dorsia! You callin me an American Psycho??? Heh


Haha no! I was just playing along with the Dorsia-scene haha. He's kind of hilarious sometimes. One of my fav scenes is the one in the beginning entering the club, the ladies with "guns" dancing to New Order - True faith. Me and some guys actually did that pistol-dance on a club and everyone watching looking like question marks, til the hottest girl on the club jumps up on one of the tables we're sitting at, doing the same pistol dance and everyone goes yeeaayy hahah!!! She was so hot. (yes jimmy, swedish blonde).

Btw the guy Justin Theroux who plays Timothy Bryce..love that guy, well, I like David Lynch's movies and his play in Mulholland Drive, Adam Kesher.

"Not if you want to keep your spleen".

But Bale was great in Empire of the Sun, one of my fav. movies. 

love offtopics in this discussion.


----------



## Baron Greuner

NYC Composer said:


> Was that for me, Adrian?



Nah Larry. Will you please stop with interweb paranoia.

Actually I found myself (purely coincidentally)hermetically sealed to the bog last night after an extremely spicy affair that I shouldn't eat in expensive restaurants. I live in restaurants and cafes.


----------



## chimuelo

It's still the best international thread.
Much better than twitter or Reddit.
Ankyu

ooops gotta go.
My new 8 bus mixer was just sent to my by a German developer with 12AT Command Line trim per channel from my French/Tunisian guy that designed the FX on Fairlight Constellation......
Euro racists...

We can bash elites later...

CiaoMein


----------



## NYC Composer

It's not paranoid to seek clarity where none exists, old sock. 

Meanwhile-do me a favor and pull your fangs in a little? Thanks ever so!


----------



## chimuelo

We have armed bouncers and free breakfast.
Waiting for sunrise as the light sends Liberals back indoors..


----------



## NYC Composer

I've gone back in time and tried to think of a worse or more unsuitable person who ever ran for the Presidency than Donald Trump. I cannot think of a single one. 

If only I could convince myself he would be a strong and steady leader rather than a dangerous and imbecilic existential threat to my country and its citizens I'd have a little comfort, but that would require a complete abdication of my intellect and that I cannot do. Hillary is deeply flawed, but there is no equivalence. I have never been as fearful for our nation.


----------



## chimuelo

The county by county blue/red scorecard just showed Illinois.
Chicago/Cook County is surrounded by Red.
The farmers and workers are out numbered by the dependents.


----------



## chimuelo

Liberal ghettos actually saved the day for wealthy plantation owners.


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> The county by county blue/red scorecard just showed Illinois.
> Chicago/Cook County is surrounded by Red.
> The farmers and workers are out numbered by the dependents.


This is not a populist uprising. It is a massive con job by people who couldn't give s crap about farmers and workers.


----------



## chimuelo

True.
Hillary is very convincing.


----------



## NYC Composer

She's a mess, but she's not His Satanic Idiocy.


----------



## chimuelo

A Trump Presidency would bring down the stock market.
The only thing keeping our Obanomy stable.
Then Steven Seagal, Putin, Mickey Rorke and Trump would carve up the Middle East and Eastern Europe.
Give the Phillipines to China as Charlamegne incarnate rides through Syria killing those foul sons of Ishmael.

Yeah, Id rather let HRC fundraise and maintain several no boots on the ground wars over land made un inhabitable by global warming.


----------



## Soundhound

It would bring down the stock market. It goes up and down inversely to his projected chances. Just like the value of the pound goes up as the news of possible escape from Brexit surfaces. As Jimmy says, follow the money. 

The news of fetid, pretentious, angry old queens being tied to the toilet last night is just the thing for a weekend morning. Kind of like a Trump presidency.


----------



## chimuelo

Speaking of toilets, I just made John Podesta a little brother 
The usual coiled snakes forced from my rectum were set aside for a good handsized turd.


----------



## NYC Composer

Fecal matter is OT.


----------



## chimuelo

Speaking of lunch....
S&P dives again as Hillarys investors become nervous.
Geraldo and Fox News, CNN and other winged stenographers caused traffic jams.
Everybody wants to be a star.

Time to make it to Peoria for another gig.
Political drink specials like the 10 dollar Stein of Jills Beer.
Everybodys cashing in.
Bad Hombre Tequila Kamikazees.
Melanias Cone Tree (pronunciation of country) is 4 blooming onions and dip stacked vertically on a stick.
Trumps steak and champagne
Hillarys nasty womans coffee mug with long island tea.

Chicago, Chicago, tbe streets are really a thrill,
If the hoods dont get you, the monoxide will.....

Frank, chairmen of the board.


----------



## Baron Greuner

The problem for Trump is that his lesbians are outnumbered 50 to 1 by Hillary's lesbians. There's a massive lesbian gap as there always is with Democrats and Republicans.
Over the next few days he needs to hire women to pretend to be lesbians and pay them to put on 75 pounds as quickly as possible. And he needs to train them on how to point. Lesbians alone are no longer good enough. They need to be able to point and wave at pretend people effectively for massive camera exposure. He also needs to get rap artists in. As many as possible. Time is now short.
That just might sway the vote his way.


----------



## Soundhound

Larry I thought fecal matter was OT? Maybe Mr Creosote wasn't alerted?


----------



## Soundhound

The more we hear about what's going on in the fbi the more i cotton to the idea of moving to europe. there is good basketball in europe.


----------



## chimuelo

Take Liberal investors too.
Might be illegal to sell laws in the EU.
But breaking laws for cash has never stopped Liberals before.
Thier hypocrisy should be in the Vatican.
Steal money and lie all day, then go to confession and do it again.

Perfect.


----------



## Soundhound

Meanwhile, the conservatives fight the good fight for truth, justice and equality.


----------



## chimuelo

They fight for their jobs.
They're exactly the same as the other Law Firm.
The believers are starting to realize the reality they face.
No longer is it a "conspiracy theory", it's just business, nothing personal.


----------



## Soundhound

Not seeing the difference is what could get Trump elected.


----------



## chimuelo

Right. Why are Liberal leaders worth hundreds of millions in a matter of 4 years in Clintons case, or Reid basically middle class now approacing 100M.
Or Pelosi making 6 figures in 1 hour immediately after VISA bill gets passed.
How is this different from Conservative "public servants"...?

You have your prism of bias, and I have 20/20 vision.

OTOH, we sound checked went to our rooms, turned on the TV and imagine that, Fox News.
It was 3 seconds later that I heard a female voice say over the backdrop of Melania and DJT waving at the top of the stairwell to the plane..."Donald Trump continues his "Worldwide tour of 9 states".......??

This kind of brainwashing bias of liberal and conservative media isnt worth the sweat off my balls.

Just imagine how many people stare at this crap and the words are subliminally planted in their lemon sised brains.
World wide means around the fucking world, not a fast pace hustle to 9 states.
Sure HRC has several other celebs and even a sitting President pleading to let them control the trillions theyve mispent and given awayvto friends for the last 8 years.

The American media is just 100% in the tank like all of these beggars we send to DC.

I actually see more truth in Russian and Israeli media.

Wish my countrymen could see how theyre being hustled.


----------



## NYC Composer

None of that is any sort of excuse to elect the worst and most inept man on the planet as president of these United States.


----------



## chimuelo

Totally agree, 
but it was Bill Clinton's idea, I suspect DJT let the power go to his head and go for the big prize instead of knocking out Rubio and Bush, who knows and who cares.

Actually I am relieved that years of guys with tin foil hats and antennas once again is proven true, like Area 51.

There's a multi billion dollar game everyone except the voters are in on.

Super delegates and "selected DNC" jobs are for rigging the primary, media and lying dick sucking journalists acting like Joseph G. and the Brown Shirts.

If this continues change will come and it won't be a peaceful.

2020 is the time for Sheep to get braver and smarter.


----------



## NYC Composer

2016 is not the time to elect DJT, nor is anytime. 2020'is a new day. 2016 is fraught with existential threat. I am a populist. He is not.


----------



## chimuelo

Doesn't matter what he is he can't win.
If he had a ground game yes.
If he strategized for the electoral, yes.
He has done nothing to indicate he wants to win anything other than a huge fan base to take to his new show.

Stop watching Fox News Larry.
Next thing we know you'll be on a world wide tour of Manhattan.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Stop telling me I'm taking in the wrong news while you're taking in the right news, Jimbo. It's all noise, yours seems pretty shrill. Stop visiting Area 51- I think you've been anally probed once too often....


----------



## chimuelo

You ever see a hardware MIDI Router like this......

I have kept Scope DSP as my interface for 15 years because of support, quality of emulation, killer audio routing, and custom made MIDI Devices.
Finally in 2016 someone makes what Scope did in DSP.

I run USB into it from the K4 out to hardware and a DAW simultaneously.

Push down an expression pedal and move 9 drawbars on a software or hardware emulation of a B3.
Each drawbar moves where I define start and stop, at the selective speed of travel.
Amazing hardware and Bome MIDI Translator PRO is where projects are created...


----------



## chimuelo

Well they lie to you, and corrupted the process, and still you trust these lying bastards?
My news is specialized searching.
It goes into articles separate from catchy headlines that help guide the wooled ones.
Don't even want to read or compare lies from "journalists"...
NYTimes is a negative 95% according to subscriptions.
Sounds like the old valued nest of paid liars should see if Trump will hire them after Christmas.


----------



## NYC Composer

You should publish your findings someplace where there are a lot of lilies players...Gearslutz maybe? KVR?


----------



## chimuelo

Thought you'd like an advanced MIDI Router.
Uses Copperlan too. Much better than last century 1-128...


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Well they lie to you, and corrupted the process, and still you trust these lying bastards?
> My news is specialized searching.
> It goes into articles separate from catchy headlines that help guide the wooled ones.
> Don't even want to read or compare lies from "journalists"...
> NYTimes is a negative 95% according to subscriptions.
> Sounds like the old valued nest of paid liars should see if Trump will hire them after Christmas.


I don't trust anything that's not verifiable by multiple sources that aren't "it says on the Internet." Neither should you. Lay off Breitbart while you're at it.


----------



## chimuelo

I got my own conspiracy theories.
Wikileaks proved my suspicions.

Boy I'd love to see the seating arrangements of the Clinton's plane where staffers and campaign managers talk behind each other's backs like rats, then get busted by not having enough brains to use a VPN or at least Cable provided email.

Now they get to sit with each other and say ... "what I really meant was..."....LoL.

It's real simple. Follow the money not the headlines.
Thanks to the Clinton's that theory can now be written in stone.

Happy worshipping.....


----------



## chimuelo

Oh, after day one of HRC in the Oval, did you actually think she will help her blacks, poor whites and Hispanics have school choice like Nevada, or....threaten Ecuador with sanctions and go after Assange, who she wanted to Drone...?

I say Assange, then start re directing our military cyber folks to do a political revenge thing like Biden boasted about...


----------



## NYC Composer

This is not about how good or bad Hillary is. This is about a spoiled brat, a literal child, leading the nation.

Trump makes corruption look like the best of all possible worlds.

Besides which, you have said numerous times you've already made the choice of Hillary, so unless you changed your mind, you're just jawing.


----------



## Soundhound

I also think it could be about how good Hillary might be. Hopefully we'll find out. Jimmy what are your sources for the Breitbart style theory that the Trump candidacy was Bill Clinton's idea? Dallas? Dynasty?


----------



## chimuelo

Yeah Good at fundraising, I'll give her that.
She gets a free pass from me, but after a year if I see the same stupid Faculty Lounge experiments with Iran, and other mentally deficient human rights regime changes I'll gladly sign any petitions.

The world knows Hillary is a liar, they know she is corrupt, they know Obama has screwed everything up in every part of the world.
The only people who don't know that are Liberals.
But since I am siding with yuze guys to prevent a Trump victory, I must eat a big shit sandwich.

The difference is I won't lie about the flavor, aroma and desire to eat another.


----------



## Soundhound

So you made up the bit about Bill Clinton. Okay. And 'the world knows...' 'we know...' that's how Bill O'Reilly talks when he's about to say something wildly incorrect. He's going to start asking you for royalties.


----------



## chimuelo

Its common knowledge about the conversation.
Only pretenders chugging Malox and popping blood pressure pills watching Fox news and switching back to MSNBSheep to find solace would have missed it.

Dont you have kids or relatives to teach you how to recieve feeds on research instead of staring at your wooden magnavox?


----------



## NYC Composer

My kid was busy defending America so you and I could express our opposing views.


----------



## NYC Composer

You know what the biggest flaw in your "magnavox" theory (and most of your other theories) is?

Who votes? Older people, by a large margin.

What is their news medium of choice? TV. Fox. CNN. MSNBC.

So, your electorate is made of tv watching "sheep." Best bend over and say bahhhh, 'cause that's who elects Presidents, like it or don't.


----------



## Guy Bacos

If Hillary wins, I can't imagine, but not at all, imagine Trump making a concession speech.


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> You know what the biggest flaw in your "magnavox" theory is? I use a Quasar, not the White Mahogony Magnavox Soundhound still has.



Do you still have a Custom PA w/ padded columns......


----------



## Ashermusic

chimuelo said:


> Do you still have a Custom PA w/ padded columns......



That is spelled Kustom and I used to have one, replaced it with a Shure Vocalmaster


----------



## chimuelo

Thats right.
Chuck Sabatino had a whole PA and an Organ too with lights in it.
We thought that shit was way cool.....

The Shure Vocal Disaster had Echo no?


----------



## Ashermusic

chimuelo said:


> Thats right.
> Chuck Sabatino had a whole PA and an Organ too with lights in it.
> We thought that shit was way cool.....
> 
> The Shure Vocal Disaster had Echo no?




Spring reverb.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hey, what about my Shure Vocalmaster!
Grey columnar goodness! And my 8 Boses??

Oops, you already went to the Shure. Never mind.


----------



## chimuelo

Larry I love antiques.
I'll take your Curtis Mathess whenever you want to off it....


----------



## Soundhound

It's one of countless rumors that feed dimwitted Trump supporters. What is the reason for you believing it? 



chimuelo said:


> Its common knowledge about the conversation.
> Only pretenders chugging Malox and popping blood pressure pills watching Fox news and switching back to MSNBSheep to find solace would have missed it.
> 
> Dont you have kids or relatives to teach you how to recieve feeds on research instead of staring at your wooden magnavox?


----------



## JonFairhurst

The other day it hit me. The Trump phenomenon is a lot like the LA punk scene of the early 1980s. Both are:
* Irreverent 
* Anti-Intellectual 
* Anti-Establishment 
* Hedonistic 
* Hyper-Masculine and Misogynistic 
* Bigoted 
* Without Morals and Principles
* Angry. Very, Very Angry.

Doesn't seem like a recipe for a sustainable way of organizing, does it.

Lots of Trump-like energy in The Decline of Civilization Part 1:


And where are the Trumpsters likely to be in a few years? The answer is in TDoWC Part 3:


----------



## NYC Composer

chimuelo said:


> Larry I love antiques.
> I'll take your Curtis Mathess whenever you want to off it....


Sorry Jim-the only antiques I have left are my computer (Intel Mac Pro 8 core late 2008), my '84 Martin D-16k (made of Koa wood) and me. Sold or gave away all my hardware. I lead a compact life.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jon, I absolutely think Donald Trump is a terrible person and would be awful for our country. I think it imperative that he be defeated.

That said, I find the one size fits all narrative to be extremely dangerous. I don't think all Trump supporters are all of those things. This has been a bifurcated country for a long time. Rather than establishing baskets of deplorables, we should be doing a lot of fucking listening and finding things to compromise on. There are issues we cannot agree on. There have to be some that we can.

There are reason for the anger that are not just about white power loss or misogyny or even bigotry, though intolerance needs to be identified and spoken against.

The more people speak of each others concerns as moronic, the farther apart we will come as a nation. There are people I disagree with but listen to and debate on the level that they allow. If someone is going to come with the attitude of "I'm right and that's that", there's no chance for any comity. I don't want to be that person, and I try not to bother even debating that person. I'm exhausted by all of the anger on both sides.


----------



## Soundhound

I admire your equanimity, but I disagree in that I don't think it's the same on both sides. This started with Gingrich and his crowd in the 90s. They changed the process from the kind of politics we've always known, to religious-like fervor and self righteousness. The contract on america was a fascist document. They shut down the government to try and get their way, and were fine doing it because they don't believe in government and its institutions.

The Trump candidacy and its followers is the natural outgrowth of this. Having been fed anti-government propaganda for 20 years, his followers don't know what's really going on, all they know is anger and resentment. Of what, many aren't even sure. The anti-Clinton movement is exactly the same. It's purely partisan, and entirely fabricated. 

This is exactly how Hitler came to power. Trump is an existential threat to this country. The left and the center have never known how to deal with the crazy right wing. It's out of control and isn't going away, whether Trump wins or not.


----------



## JonFairhurst

I hear what you're saying, Larry, but the Trump phenomenon doesn't occur without support.

Just take his anti-intellectual rhetoric and flat out obvious lying. This isn't some conspiracy theory where you have to connect the dots. It's right there in our faces. As is his foulness, racism, misogyny, etc.

So why do people support him?

You can boil the policies down to lashing out. And that's why it feels like 1980s punk. And I don't mean this as an insult. I was in my 20s in LA at the time. I wasn't a punk, but I had friends who were. It was about no inhibitions, releasing anger, and adrenaline. It was like being a middle finger. And it was a powerful energy that attracted fans. The attraction can be visceral.

But it lacks legs. Yes, the music lives on. (I know a guy who still tours with the Stooges.) But the punk lifestyle just doesn't have practical substance. Just today I heard an interview with Iggy Pop where he advocated, "Early to bed' early to rise..." Now *that's* sustainable!

Hopefully, Hillary will be elected. And I hope that she takes strong actions for the working class - but not by lashing out at others. It's best to win through good efforts; not by tearing others down.


----------



## NYC Composer

I agree about the existential threat of Trump. I absolutely believe it.

I also agree that the right has been led down a weird primrose path, and to some extent the anger is unreasoning.

Where we diverge is this, and it's obvious from the language the left uses-we think there are no real legitimate concerns that matter, everyone who votes for Trump is a moron, a racist, a misogynist, a bigot or all of the above. In that case, as Jimmy likes to opine, how exactly did we lose the working class of the country? Why are we losing millenials? Why does tax money so rarely reach the places it should? Why are things so broken? It can't be ONLY because of Republican obstructionism. Why are the schools so bad? Why is poverty so stubborn after 8 years of a liberal Presidency? Why does it seem like all of our systems are broken, that we can't get things done?

Certainly the obstructionism has mattered-but healthcare is limping, Guantanamo is still open and our foreign policy is in shambles. Obama has done a good job in difficult (and extremely racist, see birther movement) circumstances, but he was never a schmoozer. I think Hillary will be better at reaching out. I hope so. We cannot have another 4 or 8 years of virtual legislative stasis. We need to listen, negotiate and move ahead, and it does not help the narrative to look at things from an ivory tower elitist perspective. We need to help working people in this country, we need to talk AND listen. The dialogue should be extensive. Anyway, that's what I think.


----------



## NYC Composer

All that said, I have never been as frightened for my country and my family, not even after 9/11 when my wife survived by simple luck. My son has came back from Afghanistan in January. I thought life was getting calmer, and instead I find us in the grip of the most fraught election in my lifetime. 

I hope beyond hope that the American public will rally, find their better selves and reject this monstrous would-be tyrant.


----------



## Baron Greuner

What I love about this thread is the palpable fear of the democrats. Why though? What will happen if you get what you vote for? Look what happened in the UK when they got what they voted for in Cameron.

All very predictable.

Sky TV for months said over and over again how easily it looked for Clinton in this election and here we are today with these assholes now saying 'in the most unpredictable election this century'

One pole on the day of the Brexit vote put the remain campaign 10 points ahead. Most poles bar about one put the remain way ahead. Don't pay attention to agenda driven media.


----------



## NYC Composer

I don't know what the media is predicting anymore, I'm avoiding it like the plague.

You totally don't get it, Adrian. This is unprecedented. This man will bring us all down if elected. The stakes are much higher than they have been in my lifetime. This is the point where Jews start deciding if they're leaving the country. I'm totally serious. I can only imagine what Muslim citizens of this nation must think.

You think this is hyperbole. I know it's not. You won't like Trump's America, trust me. Spend a little time researching his bully boy Steve Bannon. These are bad people.

3 days.


----------



## Baron Greuner

No I don't think it's hyperbole at all Larry.

Where we might veer is that quite a few people already think America down. Imagine for a moment if America had the equivalent of the NHS? Have you any idea how many immigrants you would be swamped with by now? Obamacare is the first step towards that and Hillary Clinton will be picking up the tab on a lot of immigrants if she wins.

Why should America pick up most of the tab for NATO because European countries have no idea and even any wish to invest in their own defence or even have the desire to do so when America and GB will always bail them out in times of conflict and go and fight in far off eastern areas? Part of the reason the Brexit has caused enormous concern with countries such as Denmark and the Latvia area (apart from the money), is they wanted us to be their European army. They said it would be a combined joint venture but failed to understand 1000 years of history.

The French President currently has a 4% approval rating in the polls? Guess why. If it wasn't for the way they are able to vote 2nd ballot employing tactical voting, Marine Le Pen would be leader of France and then Europe would not need to worry themselves about being in the EU anymore because there would not be an EU. Many Jewish people have fled France. We have approximately between 400,000 and 600,000 French people living in and around London.

A lot of Muslim USA inhabitants that we see here interviewed are actually backing Trump. That is skewed TV though almost certainly.

Jewish people here just very recently have felt threatened. By whom? The Labour Party. Go figure. The one party they have religiously voted for now turns against them.

Hillary Clinton wants to start the total ban on all guns in the USA. It starts small and then grows. A bit like going to the High Court over the Brexit vote. Before anyone knows it, they're pulling out which is what they really want with no regard whatsoever for the vote. No wonder one of the main instigators has had death threats almost instantaneously.
How you're going to get rid of guns in the USA is almost impossible to imagine.

I enjoy this form of voyeurism that age and experience brings.


----------



## Soundhound

I know I'm preaching to the choir here Larry, but... The working class has always gotten the short end of the stick. Things were looking up in the short period from the New Deal through the 60s, but the modern screwing of the working class started with their being sold on the Republicans as their party. It was a cynical political move by Reagan's handlers and it delivered the right the votes that would keep them in power for a generation. Republicans are anything but the party of working people of course, and its how they have come to vote against their own interests for so long. 

As I've said, the democrats are hardly blameless. They moved well to the right during this time, and plenty have been corrupt. But at least there are elements of good in the democratic party. They are outnumbered, but they are there. 

I've been saying for a long time that the country was veering dangerously to the right, and now it's gotten to the point where a truly dangerous person could take power. The air has indeed been poisoned, listen to what Adrian says (don't worry, he can't hear me, as the far right doesn't want to hear anything but their own voice) that Clinton is going to take away everyone's guns. Marie Le Pen would make Europe safe. It's crazy, irrational, fear fed paranoia. 

There is blame on both sides absolutely, but the terrible harm has been done by the right. I don't hear the same kind of hate on the left as I do on the right at all. I hear concern, amazement, disbelief and sadness: it's really gotten this bad? Let's hope not.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> All that said, I have never been as frightened for my country and my family, not even after 9/11 when my wife survived by simple luck. My son has came back from Afghanistan in January. I thought life was getting calmer, and instead I find us in the grip of the most fraught election in my lifetime.
> 
> I hope beyond hope that the American public will rally, find their better selves and reject this monstrous would-be tyrant.


Your girl Hillary is no better for the country. Both of these candidates are horrible and will have disastrous effects on the nation, just in different ways. I am very scared for my nephews, nieces and great nephews and nieces. They world they inherit will be awful thanks largely to my generation.

But as for me, my trust and faith isn't in government anyway.


----------



## Ashermusic

Michael K. Bain said:


> Your girl Hillary is no better for the country. Both of these candidates are horrible and will have disastrous effects on the nation, just in different ways.



I disagree. She will not be perfect, no president ever has been, but she will be far better for the future of this country than her opponent. Not even a close call.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Ashermusic said:


> I disagree. She will not be perfect, no president ever has been, but she will be far better for the future of this country than her opponent. Not even a close call.


Like choosing between cyanide or arsenic. When I voted, I chose neither, but I know unless a miracle happens (3rd parties denying them 270), I will get one of the 2 poisons.


----------



## Ashermusic

Michael K. Bain said:


> Like choosing between cyanide or arsenic. When I voted, I chose neither, but I know unless a miracle happens (3rd parties denying them 270), I will get one of the 2 poisons.




More like the difference between a paper cut and a hatchet cut


----------



## rpjd

NYC Composer said:


> This man will bring us all down if elected.


We used to have world wars to give humanity a reboot and to restore basic values. But no more. Maybe if this awful man is elected President, he will act as a catalyst for the reboot Western Civilisation so badly needs. (Eternal optimist, I am most surely.)

Ray


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Ashermusic said:


> More like the difference between a paper cut and a hatchet cut


I don't agree, but I do appreciate the humor!


----------



## chimuelo

Americans were all for China joining the world and raising 500 million people up from poverty.
They were for free trade with Canada and Mexico.
It worked well.

The problem is a new crop of politicians is in control now and face the prospects of a shrinking middle class.

Rather than tweak NAFTA since its original goals were met the middle class gets hit with a housing crisis, then Obama's ACA.

Liberals and Conservatives aren't listening to the majority of Americans.
Almost 75% believe we are going in the wrong direction.

Americans are angry and have reasons.
To be shamed as racists swells thier ranks.
Calling them deplorable swells thier ranks.

This is a pushback against what they view as lying tyrannical dreamers more concerned with thier programs than Americans and 10 years of losing thier savings and equity.

Call them anti whatever, isms, ists and various phobes.

They see liars and self serving elites shaming them.

This is why Trump is so popular.


----------



## Soundhound

That is exactly what a Trump supporter thinks like. I'd say you should vote for him Jimmy, but I hope you don't.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Either way, Trump or Hillary, it will be chaos On Nov 8th and the time following that. Just a bit less if Hillary wins, and you don't have to move to Canada.


----------



## JonFairhurst

How can Hillary possibly take away our guns? The right wing told us over and over again that Obama was going to take all our guns. 

Logic: Obama has been president for eight years; therefore, we have no more guns to take. Duh.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Wealthy people know how to harness fear. They learn how to harness their own fear, then they work out how to use other people's fear to either use against them or for themselves.

Otherwise known as politicians.

MUSIC BREAK!


----------



## chimuelo

Soundhound said:


> That is exactly what a Trump supporter thinks like. I'd say you should vote for him Jimmy, but I hope you don't.



Wrong guy with thr right message that fortunately came after we got to see the real DJT.
HRC had better listen to Bill instead of Obama.
Both Clintons have been well travelled during Obamas dangerous foreign policy decisions.
Im confident world leaders are happier with HRC instead of Obama or Trump.

She wont get much passed but might get decent comprimise.
If Conservatives dont cave in a little bit we will remove thier ass.
That fact they preferred Americans suffer under the ACA just so they could say I told you so might be good for them.
But will bite them in the ass in 2018.
If I lose the Cadillac coverage I paid into for 30 years for 6 bucks an hour, there will be about 8 million retired and 11 million current tradesmen wanting some Ass.....


----------



## chimuelo

Wouldnt worry about taking away guns.
Liberals pensions spike from every speech.
They are top heavy in arms manufacturing and ammo.

DiBlaZero the millionaire mayor in NYC is the only politician trying to divest pensions, but you see, when Liberals hear they must sacrifice the lucrative ROI, they are really conservative.
Just like thier fake enemy they vote with on major bills.
Little feel good symbolic bills are the only diffetence between these 2 law firms.


----------



## Soundhound

Deblasio is a billionaire? Mr Trump where do you get this stuff?


----------



## chimuelo

I figured you be upset he wanted to disassociate your wealthy white liberals from pension/profits on weapons.
Why do you think they always show the fake out rage and then shuck and jive by urging for, calling for and standing for gun "control".

Just more jive from cackling hens.


----------



## Soundhound

Liberals are against gun control. What's the other planet in the superman comics where everything is backward (superman is evil etc.) And how did you get there Jimmy, did Elon Musk build you a rocket ship?


----------



## chimuelo

They just pretend because their pensions spike.
So as they tell thier armed bodygaurds and armed friends to steer clear of the cameras they rub thier eyes red then turn and cry for legislation they could have easily passed during their feckless super majority.

Sucks worshipping lying hypocrits eh......


----------



## Soundhound

Well if Trump wins and they hold on to the Senate, you will get your wish and we can look forward to things really getting done in Washington. Latest I heard is Trump proposal to privatize the U.S. highway system. Cheney privatized the military, Trump will do it domestically apparently.


----------



## chimuelo

HRC is going to win scare dee pants.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/state-senator-arrested-ferguson-protest

Check out the ommission by MSNBSheep here as they portray another Liberal Senator.
Once you read the article, you see theres no mention of the gun she was busted with, or the pocket of ammunition, or how she appeared to be drunk and mouthy.

She too wants gun control.
But what liberals mean is gun control for you, not themselves.
Lord forbid they have to obey the laws.
Jackson cut her loose to avoid more Soros gangs getting out of control as most protested peacefully.
But when a Liberal Senator breaks laws how do you think those that begrundgely obey will act.

HRC will win and thats a green light for the GOP to start selling laws to foreigners for cash.
Who is going to stop them?
This DOJ or Hillary.....


----------



## NYC Composer

And Trump winning would signal the end of our republic, as he has no knowledge or respect for any semblance of the democratic process. Your theories about Hillary notwithstanding, it's a binary choice. Stop whining and grumbling, you know it's true. Unless you've changed your mind and would like to be ruled by a tyrant like his Russian pal and role model, Putin.


----------



## chimuelo

Hell no.
I dont see saw or even get swayed by liars and bought and paid for media.
I heard Trump call the judge a Mexican. That was what cbanged my mind.
Wikileaks only confirmed to the Sheep what our Libefal elites really think of us.
Ive known all along what a bunch of self serving lying bastards they are.

Im voting in a Baptist Chapel, not a real Church, so while I will be committing a sin I wont seek out a confession until I stop by and see Father Paul jr. Son of my former Priest where I grew up stealing soda bottles, musical instruments and cases of cigarettes to sell for my CS80.


----------



## Hannes_F

FYI gentlemen: I have split the discussion about firearms in avatars into an extra thread. That thread is hidden for reviewing purpose right now.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hannes, I'm sure to hurry over there

Meanwhile, the death match for the soul of America continues. Who will show up? Will sanity prevail, or is there enough anger out there to cast us into the abyss? We'll soon find out.


----------



## NYC Composer

Still voting for McMullin, Michael? You've gone dark again.


----------



## chimuelo

Larry your paranoia has merit but a fraction of supporters on both sides take this stuff really serious, the rest of folks feel great voting for once as they had a chance to be heard.

The hills remain, and the rivers will flow.
Too many billionaires banks corporations would never tolerate Trump locking them out of sales of Liberals and Conservatives..


----------



## Hannes_F

Speaking as a moderator: 
We kindly ask members not to call each other names. In order to slow that tendency down I have given one member a temporary timeout from this thread and wouldn't hesitate to give more of that. Thank you for listening.


----------



## chimuelo

Moderation is the key to a healthy lifestyle.


----------



## NYC Composer

But...but....Nick's a mod!!



Just a joke. Nick calls groups of people and politicians stupid, not individuals in the thread.


----------



## NYC Composer

Jimmy, the hills will be razed for more coal and the rivers will become even more polluted as the evil (and mostly non existent) regulations are watered down. Soon we'll be Brazil.


----------



## chimuelo

Nick looks like a Bavarian Sausage salesmen in Lederhosen....


----------



## rottoy

chimuelo said:


> Moderation is the key to a healthy lifestyle.


Modwheel action* is the key to a healthy lifestyle.


----------



## chimuelo

NYC Composer said:


> Jimmy, the hills will be razed for more coal and the rivers will become even more polluted as the evil (and mostly non existent) regulations are watered down. Soon we'll be Brazil.



Liberal's......
They even see the planet as a victim in thier vision of Unicorns and Glitter.


----------



## NYC Composer

I have plenty of evidence. Do you need links?


----------



## chimuelo

Yes, I'll take a roll of Salsiccia, hot with extra Fennel Seed ankyuvarymush...

Moderators here reflect Composers in Hollywood.

Forum Owner_________Composer Head Moderator______Composers Assitant.
Moderator____Assistant to the Assistant......


----------



## NYC Composer

You should try some Rochester White Hots.


----------



## chimuelo

I tried one, didn't like it.
Tasted fine after I cleaned it.
Mine had Tabasco I believe...
Yeecchh...


----------



## NYC Composer

You have insufficient sourcing for white hots.


----------



## Hannes_F

chimuelo said:


> Moderators here reflect Composers in Hollywood.
> 
> Forum Owner_________Composer Head Moderator______Composers Assitant.
> Moderator____Assistant to the Assistant......



@chimuelo, it used to be kind of like that with the old forum software where we had actually even three levels of mods (I was the newest and lowest which made sense since learning to moderate really takes time and patience on the side of the more experienced mods). With the new software these distinctions fell.
That been said we moderators have a very specific task and within the rules we are not bound to strict orders. So that analogy is perhaps a bit misleading.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf




----------



## Guy Bacos

I don't know what these guys want? Does anyone one know?


----------



## Hannes_F

Gentlemen, all of you that we know each other for long, you know that I value you very much.

That being said please realize that currently you help the moderation being taken to where it should not been taken to if you understand what I mean. You help that sort of subtle abuse if you

- continue posting off topic in this thread instead of opening new threads about serious issues
- respond emotionally instead of calm and rationally and by that give away handles to report your posts
- formulate ad hominem criticisms (targeting specific persons instead of general behaviour patterns)
- start to criticize the mods in order to vent

Thus I would please ask you to

- stay on topic in this thread
- bring forth rational arguments in new threads if something is serious
- avoid ad hominem criticisms
- make the mod's job not more complicated than it is

Thank you.


----------



## NYC Composer

"At well over 100 years old, I can honestly say I've never seen a political year like this. 

I totally understand anyone who thinks the status quo in American politics should be blown up. All I can say is-there is blown up and there is blown up. Be careful what you wish for.

When the most strident voices are dominant, when the loudest voices speak without thoughtful consideration or nuance, civil society suffers.'"

That was the post I made to start this thread. I resent provocateurs who have nothing specific to say about the topic. I have curated this thread and tried to keep it on point for hundreds of pages because I believe this to be an existential threat to my nation and the world. People trying to derail it for their personal agendas should probably be looked at for what their motives are. I do not believe in moderation of threads per se, however if it must occur, it should be evenhanded and exist in a world of fairness and reason.


----------



## chimuelo

I am hallucinating from being traumatized by this election.

Just today I went to a Wal-Mart as I ran out of Gorilla Tape.
Turned the isle and there was this giant peach colored ass pointing up at me as the women was in a pants suit picking up something she dropped, swore it was Hillary.
Raced to the counter to escape, paid for tape and cable ties, scurried to the car and there was Trump standing in the back of a pick up truck giving a speech to a huge crowd.
Turned out to be some old white guy telling a bunch of Mexicans what he wanted done at his farm.
Drove 30 minutes home and to forget my hallucinations decided to watch Dont Mess With The Zohan.
The greedy guy building Towers with the hot girlfriend looked just like Trump.
Then the Israeli guys were Fucking with the Lebanese guys and they started talking about American women and one guy says he wants to do Hillary, I swear the movie is 10 years old and I am not hallucinating.

November 9th cannot come too soon.


----------



## NoamL

There is a 4,000 person long line of people in Cleveland waiting to vote. And yesterday Donald Trump complained that they were keeping the polls open too long in Nevada.

WTF, 'Merica?


----------



## Hannes_F

FYI as being announced before I have given a 1 day timeout for this thread for 2 more members in order to cool down and discuss other topics in private.


----------



## NYC Composer

WTF indeed.

It's very rare that I wish I was spiritual. I would pray for my country.


----------



## chimuelo

This happens all the time in Nevada.
Unions get busses and everyone meets at the Hall after work, then purposely hit the polls at 6 or so to keep the lines open as long as possible.
Work weeks are 6 x 10s usually so Saturdays are optimal.
They also provide busses for the Salvation Army shelters St. Vincent's, Catholic Charities.
They each get 20 bucks this year, compliments of the DNC.
It's ordinary business.
Trump cannot win in Nevada.
He had most of the Hispanic vote but threw it away.
Originally why I thought the race was fake.


----------



## NoamL

chimuelo said:


> The county by county blue/red scorecard just showed Illinois.
> Chicago/Cook County is surrounded by Red.
> The farmers and workers are out numbered by the dependents.


----------



## chimuelo

I never knew where millions live and work theres more economic activity.

Cool graph bro....


----------



## NYC Composer

My local dive bar has a cool pedigree-it's in the building where Gershwin wrote "Rhapsody in Blue". They're having an election night bash. Can't decide whether to watch with folks or in private where I can mutter at the TV in solitude. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## chimuelo

Go to Trump Tower and rub it in.....

Trump is going to get slaughtered in Nevada.
Early voting game there has been polished for years.
Harry polished it back in the 90s when he was in his 70s.

Confused about the replacement race.
Should be a cinch for Harrys replacement, she wants nothing to do with him.
But Koch brothers dumped so much cash on Joe Heck she caved into to the Reid/Warren/Sanders angle. First hispanic woman, should be huge turn out.


----------



## Hannes_F

On request of the original poster (NYC Composer) I have lifted all thee bans for this thread a little ahead of time.

Please everybody, stay at topic and don't let yourself provoke otherwise. Thank you.


----------



## chimuelo

SEPTA (Southeastern Pennsylvannia Transportation Authority) has agreed to new contracts which means they will be up and running for Tuesday voting.
Smart Union bosses there.
Everybody uses PT in Philly.
You cant find parking hardly and traffic is a nightmare.

With Union strikes BAs need to time thier negotiations.
Chicago Teachers Union is an example of piss poor strike timing.
People in Chicago hate public schools mostly because of thier strikes causing working familes day care costs and just poor records.

SEPTA is the perfect strike as Federal DNC and state put pressure on the Unions side.
Nobody in Center City or Darby/Deleware County would even try to vote so they got everything they wanted.
HRC can keep Pennsylvannia.


----------



## chimuelo

Since I was a young lady I always had 2 x gigs and family.
Sleep was never a priority.
For 3 years now I just perform, usually 2 projects in play.
Still could never sleep more than 4 hours. 
Feel fine but notice I leave my keys on counters, forget to take money from ARMs, really stupid shit.
These natural minerals REALLY help and election nightmares have been replaced by dreams of fine women, gigs in killer rooms, etc.
And first time in decades I slept for 7 hours.
Never knew what I was missing.
Take 2 capsules, on the 3rd night you will be amazed when you wake up.
Amazon has these cheap.
6 week supply for 18 bucks.


----------



## Soundhound

Congrats! Do they have anything for if you naturally sleep 8 hours a day? I do the same thing whenever I get 5 hours or under (a lot), taking the signed slip at a restaurant is the current fave. Get chased down the street by waiters almost weekly... 



chimuelo said:


> Since I was a young lady I always had 2 x gigs and family.
> Sleep was never a priority.
> For 3 years now I just perform, usually 2 projects in play.
> Still could never sleep more than 4 hours.
> Feel fine but notice I leave my keys on counters, forget to take money from ARMs, really stupid shit.
> These natural minerals REALLY help and election nightmares have been replaced by dreams of fine women, gigs in killer rooms, etc.
> And first time in decades I slept for 7 hours.
> Never knew what I was missing.
> Take 2 capsules, on the 3rd night you will be amazed when you wake up.
> Amazon has these cheap.
> 6 week supply for 18 bucks.


----------



## Red

2 words. Fish Oil.

You're welcome.


----------



## passsacaglia

ZMA+lucid dreaming = the sh*t.
No wonder my dreams are even better than daily life dreams/nicey stuff.
ps mastah chim I thought you knew about the magic dosage.

Zinc makes you sleepy and relaxed and magnesium is always good, it's like a synergic bonnie n clyde supplement, when you close your eyes the action begins. ZMA is often common used by bodybuilders, see ZMA topics often in the forums. "Yeah you get crazy dreams of them" but good for recovery. No bs.

ANKYU


----------



## Guy Bacos

I was wondering if the law is the same as in Canada, about no campaigning in the last 24 hours before voting?

Edit: I think I heard they have up to midnight? So we won't hear Trump after midnight? Nice.


----------



## JonFairhurst

This the best article I've read all election season... especially the paragraph on infowars.


----------



## Soundhound

Thank you! It's good for dealing with sleep deprivation? (I don't need helping sleeping, just the opposite really, I could sleep through artillery fire I'm afraid.) 



Red said:


> 2 words. Fish Oil.
> 
> You're welcome.


----------



## chimuelo

What a poor tortured soul.
All of that research of other people's analytical discovery, then a huge summary.....
It's pretty simple seeing Bernie and Trump.
They don't like the for sale sign in the who're house called D.C..
Since they have so many investors let them cover everything like medical costs, social programs.
They waltz in after others pay for these programs and get to the front of the line since the leadership of these 2 Crime Families aren't satisfied with the salaries provided.

In short. Millions of Americans don't like lying bastards.

But it's good exercise putting together other people's work so you can pretend you're really perceptive.

I think I'll take chapters from my favorite books, copy paste them into a new book so I can pretend to be an author.
Maybe be a star on some out dated site like tumblr.

FWIW I eat lots of Fresh Fish.
Especially Crappe and Yellow Bass.
Right now they're jumpin.
Catch my limit tomorrow after voting at 0600 hours.

By the time we get back this election will be over and America can celebrate its 4th Queen.

Dolly Madison
Eleanor Roosevelt
Nancy Reagan

Now Hillary.
May she have a good 4 years.....


----------



## chimuelo

For folks having a tough time getting up off the couch from a 3 hour session of watching Fox News or MSNBSheep, don't waste money on Icy Hot or the expensive Tiger Balm.

The election has tortured Americans so for 3.99 @ the local feed store this is for post CrossFit stuff.
Check out Amazon, sure they got it.
Meant for horse tissue so we need very little.

Never sit very long but for the nervous Curtis Mathes/Magnavox folks you can numb your ass up with a thumbnails worth.


----------



## Red

Soundhound said:


> It's good for dealing with sleep deprivation?



You probably know that there really isn't a direct way to handle sleep deprivation other than sleep.

Fish oil makes the hours you sleep better (with good fats and acids) so that you can handle with less hours of sleep. 

You could eat more fish or avocados... but pills are easy.


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> All of that research of other people's analytical discovery, then a huge summary.....



I believe that it's called citing sources. You might try it some time.

Personally, I thought that it was an excellent summary of why most of the BS hurled Hillary's was is just that, BS.


----------



## passsacaglia

+ curcumin and graviola for certain pains (they both kill cancer cells, graviola said to be 10.000x stronger than chemo, just sayin.) Same goes for oil comin from a special plant, 3 characters.  
A*k*u


----------



## chimuelo

I value reading, just not the same tired regurgitation from unemployable tumblr authors with way too much time on thier hands.
Reading music teaches me ideas and is far better for efficient use of time.

Why read more garbage parroted over and over that's sole purpose is to poison k your soul?


----------



## JonFairhurst

chimuelo said:


> Why read more garbage parroted over and over... ?



Which part was garbage? Or do you just dislike that he discredits infowars and breitbart?

(BTW, I find the "parroted over and over" thing pretty funny, given the stream of Liberal Sheep posts...)


----------



## Guy Bacos

So between both parties they must spend somewhere around 2B, imagine of that money was spent on building hospitals, education, jobs etc. ?

Probably routine electoral procedure for most americans, I guess. Still sad.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Read an article today that said Clinton was very worried that Rubio might be the nominee. And she should've been. Rubio would've wiped the floor with her. Oh how sad to think of what might have been.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

I've heard that argument before about other Republicans too, Michael - many times. As with the notion that Sanders would have done much better, I find it perfectly ludicrous.

Txxxx wiped the floor with every one of those jackasses in the primary. The last one standing was the second biggest asshole in the country, Ted Cruz, and he didn't come close.

On the Democratic side, Hillary beat a formidable candidate by a pretty wide margin. And contrary to popular belief, she did it *by getting more votes* - from people who are convinced she's the best candidate, not by cheating. (No, Debbie Wasserman Schulz didn't affect the outcome.)

How do you figure she would done worse against a Republican dope like Mario Rubio, whose ideas have zero intellectual backing? She has a far better case against him (or any of the other clown assholes) than she had against Sanders, and she was able to make it very effectively.

Just so you know, I was planning on voting for Sanders until the first debate, but Hillary was far more impressive and I simply couldn't justify it.

Hillary is the best candidate, and she deserves to win.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I've heard that argument before about other Republicans too, Michael - many times. As with the notion that Sanders would have done much better, I find it perfectly ludicrous.
> 
> Txxxx wiped the floor with every one of those jackasses in the primary. The last one standing was the second biggest asshole in the country, Ted Cruz, and he didn't come close.



What you don't take into consideration is that the conservative vote was split among 11 or12 candidates. Trump was the sole nationalist populist progressive candidate. If it had been one on one; if there had only been one conservative candidate against him, Trump wouldn't have come close. 



Nick Batzdorf said:


> How do you figure she would done worse against a Republican dope like Mario Rubio, whose ideas have zero intellectual backing?



Rubio is not scandal-ridden like Hillary is. Hillary's favorability ratings are very low, just like Trump

By the way, the article I read referenced Wikileaks. In a leakd email, Podesta was the one who said that Hillary was afraid of Rubio.


----------



## NYC Composer

Michael- I had you on ignore by accident!! I've never intentionally ignored anyone. Damnit. Now I have to go back and read posts.

That's why I said you had "gone dark." Yikes.

Rubio might have won- if he kept a three day stubble. He's got such a young face.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Michael- I had you on ignore by accident!! I've never intentionally ignored anyone. Damnit. Now I have to go back and read posts.
> 
> That's why I said you had "gone dark." Yikes.



No prob. I bet you're not the first to put me on ignore

I'll save you the trouble of going back. I replied to your question abut how I voted by saying "for McMullin or Castle".



NYC Composer said:


> Rubio might have won- if he kept a three day stubble. He's got such a young face.


I have a beard, maybe I'll run!


----------



## NYC Composer

Why not-everyone else did!


----------



## NYC Composer

@Hannes-thanks for lifting the ban.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> Rubio is not scandal-ridden like Hillary is. Hillary's favorability ratings are very low, just like Trump



There aren't enough stupid people in the country for Rubio (or Txxxx) to win. At least I sure hope there aren't.


----------



## NYC Composer

Stock market thinks she's gonna win (reflected in today's rally that propped up my wilted portfolio).

Unfortunately, the market is often wrong in the short term.


----------



## JonFairhurst

The fallacy about Rubio (or whoever) having a cakewalk is that the non-Trump/non-Clinton candidate didn't get researched and attacked by the opposing party over the past months.

It would be like claiming a your favorite boxer would beat Ali - if the new boxer came in fresh after Ali had just fought for fourteen rounds. That might be the case, but that's not how matches are fought in the real world.


----------



## Hannes_F

US citizens, voting time has come. The world is looking at you.


----------



## chimuelo

I always listen to the last winners like Axelrod.
The guy is a partisan but keeps his bias separate and while everyone else predicted Trump was a flash in the pan, he nailed it.
The guy has been right since 2008, even got booed by wealthy Liberals when he said the GOP would clean House in 10/12 & 2014.

Everybody's glad he didn't predict a Trump win in the general.

Rand could have beat Clinton, anyone could beat her just based on her complete failures from every corner of the globe.

Not even needing to point out her disrespect for laws or taking down payments on armaments.

Other than those minor shortcomings, she's a great candidate.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> There aren't enough stupid people in the country for Rubio (or Txxxx) to win. At least I sure hope there aren't.


Nick, Hillary is having a hard enough time with Trump. Rubio is much more likable to the general public than Trump. Hillary wouldn't stand a chance.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

JonFairhurst said:


> The fallacy about Rubio (or whoever) having a cakewalk is that the non-Trump/non-Clinton candidate didn't get researched and attacked by the opposing party over the past months.



Not attacked, but researched for sure. The Clinton campaign kept tabs on all of them. They were worried about Jeb until he dropped out, then they worried about Rubio. Leaked documents show their strategy for propping up Trump in hopes he would win because he was a weaker candidate.


----------



## NoamL

Tomorrow is really going down to the wire but I have a helpful Go To Sleep checklist:

If the TV announces Hillary has won *Florida or North Carolina... *go to sleep.


If the TV announces Hillary has won *Virginia* _*and*_* Pennsylvania and Ohio... *go to sleep.


If the TV announces Hillary has won *Virginia* _*and*_* Pennsylvania *_*and*_ *any two of Iowa, Colorado, Nevada, New Hampshire... *go to sleep _*unless*_ Hillary has won NH but not CO, in which case there is a chance of a tie and a faithless elector in Washington throwing the election to Trump (yeah 2016 is crazy)

Whichever of these scenarios happens first means the election is over.

If none of them happens we're in for a long night.


----------



## Ashermusic

Feeling much better today than a couple of days ago.


----------



## NYC Composer

I will never trust an election count in Florida again. I think Virginia and Pennsylvania look solid. North Carolina, who knows. Iowa looks very unlikely. New Hampshire, dicey. Ohio, dicey. There are a lot of what ifs.


----------



## Ashermusic

NYC Composer said:


> I will never trust an election count in Florida again. I think Virginia and Pennsylvania look solid. North Carolina, who knows. Iowa looks very unlikely. New Hampshire, dicey. Ohio, dicey. There are a lot of what ifs.



But he has to win ALL the battleground states and tip a blue one.


----------



## Hannes_F

@NoamL when (which time) would you expect such results?


----------



## NoamL

Hannes_F said:


> @NoamL when (which time) would you expect such results?



Tough to say with precision, Hannes, perhaps 3am in Germany?

The polls officially close in most states between 7-9pm local time. However, there is a law in the USA that if you are already in line when the polls close, they have to let you vote.

This is important because each state runs its own elections, and a partisan official (usually the state's Secretary of State) decides how many voting locations there will be and how many voting booths or machines each one will have. It's one of our election traditions for Republican SOS's to quite deliberately and openly make sure that there are not enough voting locations & machines in urban areas and university campuses, where Democrats strongly outnumber Republicans. They hope that people will see long lines and stay away. Meanwhile, Democrats bring free bottled water and snacks to the lines (even umbrellas if it's raining!) to encourage people to stay and wait to vote.

We have a patchwork system - some states have electronic ballots, others still count by hand late into the night. Both campaigns have large teams of lawyers who will swoop down on a close state and challenge the other side's ballots on technical grounds.

Finally, Trump has encouraged his voters to stand around voting locations and intimidate other voters, especially African American and Latino voters.

So the potential for a trainwreck is pretty high.

On the other hand, the news media conducts exit polls and they typically report these polls instantly when the voting officially ends (but many people are still in line). The exit polls are reasonably accurate. If one or the other candidate is _really_ running away with the race, we will probably know around 7-9pm EST as exit polls are released showing (for instance) Clinton ahead in Florida or Trump ahead in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.


----------



## NYC Composer

What's interesting and daunting is-what we're seeing now is a shackled Trump, restrained by his campaign, a simple nutjob rather than a careening train veering totally off the rails. Assuming she wins the election (please) there will be no constraints, and his full throated and fact-free rants can begin again.

The battle for the soul of America starts with this election. Key word-"starts."

Trumpism needs to be dealt with. It will take a grim and concerted effort. It will also take action, and the Republican party will attempt to block any action to help the people it purportedly represents. Like a screaming recalcitrant child, it will refuse to budge and will lash out at anything around it in its death throes. The nomination of Trump has really ripped it asunder.

If all of this goes against Trump as I fervently hope it will, I want to start a thread about how to improve and heal America. We need ideas and thoughts about what can change, things in the realm of the possible, discussion among people who can disagree and argue passionately without rancor. I continue to believe that's possible, though never easy.


----------



## Hannes_F

Thanks @NoamL, this is interesting. So the word poll means both the voting process but also the statistical predictions, right?

@NYC Composer go ahead with the new thread. I think the US people dearly deserves some healing power and new (realistic) ideas. Or else the story of this year will repeat again and again ...


----------



## Soundhound

I think that new thread is a great idea. Obama when asked about the balkanization of media over the weekend was at a loss for what to do about it. But he was adamant that something has to be done. When large sections of the population are being fed spurious information posing as news, that creates an atmosphere in which someone like Donald Trump can get within a few electoral votes of the presidency. If Barack Obama doesn't know what to do about it... the guy was president of Harvard Law School... shee-it...

We need publicly funded elections, and we need a gigantic infrastructure program.


----------



## woodsdenis

NYC Composer said:


> If all of this goes against Trump as I fervently hope it will, I want to start a thread about how to improve and heal America. We need ideas and thoughts about what can change, things in the realm of the possible, discussion among people who can disagree and argue passionately without rancor. I continue to believe that's possible, though never easy.



I really hope in 24 hrs this thread will be locked and in time forgotten about. Start a new one Larry, like you envision.
I will leave you with this little gem.


----------



## NoamL

"The asteroid that just destroyed a party of dinosaurs" was damn clever.


----------



## NoamL

Hannes_F said:


> Thanks @NoamL, this is interesting. So the word poll means both the voting process but also the statistical predictions, right?



Yes, it's used for both. "Go to the polls" = go vote; "NBC took a poll" = NBC randomly called registered voters to try to get a sample of how people will vote.

Hence the saying "the only poll that really matters is on Election Day."


----------



## NYC Composer

I can't help but wonder what percentage of Republican voters are out there who, even if they vote for him, will be secretly relieved if he loses.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Not as high as the percentage of me that will be openly delighted if they lose the Senate.


----------



## chimuelo

Everybody's knows what's at stake.
This will be over early in a clear double digit win for HRC.

Tomorrow the Sheep will realize thier Shepards made them nervous for nothing more than billions in ad money.

Next election, if trends are in play will be 2 years long and billions that could have been used so America can maybe get into the top 25 for education, will be split up amongst shareholders and our foreign owned media.

All of this for years more of speeches and maybe some extra food for more middle class folks slipping into poverty.

I hear cheering Sheep in the other room. Somebody must be promising a bright future for every species, race, religion,....and were going to bring back Honeybees...etc.etc.

Sorry, I was wrong, Jeopardy audience must have been Vanna in one of her classy dresses.

My girlfriend thinks she's going to move in. Women tend to clean and start buying plants, etc.
She doesn't take the hint when I tell I'm going to practice, make yourself at home.

Where I'm from that use to mean make yourself at home at your home.

Can't wait to hear Trump concede.
He likes to think he's unpredictable, but he's not.
He better start congratulations quickly, then prepare for every Federal Agency to come down on him.


----------



## NYC Composer

You don't believe what you're having ironic fun with, Jimmy.

1. This is not about Hillary rainbows and unicorns. It's about avoiding catastrophe, and you have virtually admitted it.

2. This has gotten way too close for anyone's comfort, and you saw it happen. Pull the wool from your own eyes, man. Smart people of conscience have to start working towards a better America.


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> We need publicly funded elections, and we need a gigantic infrastructure program.



..and a moratorium for lobbyists who have worked in the public sector...but there's where we'll start the next thread if she wins. If she doesn't, I'm going into seclusion in my coat closet.


----------



## Soundhound

And I'll return to my first love, drinking. If she'll have me.

As my friend Dave says, "if you need me, I'll be in my applesauce."



NYC Composer said:


> ..and a moratorium for lobbyists who have worked in the public sector...but there's where we'll start the next thread if she wins. If she doesn't, I'm going into seclusion in my coat closet.


----------



## chimuelo

I'm preparing for a big Cyber strike.

Putin is going to throw a party for Hillary....
British troops are in Korea, NATO troops all over Romania and Poland.

Dont know whats worse, a buddy of Putins or an enemy as President...?


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Smart people of conscience have to start working towards a better America.


We have already started. We voted 3rd party.


----------



## NYC Composer

Putin doesn't have buddies. He views Trump, in KGB terms, as a "useful idiot."


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Putin doesn't have buddies. He views Trump, in KGB terms, as a "useful idiot."


Or as the Manchurian Candidate.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Larry, how do you propose to make a better America (not that I'm counting unhatched chickens yet)?

Half the country is impervious to logic. One of our two political parties even has denying climate change as part of their official platform. They intentionally ruin our government to prove that it's bad, with the sole intention of getting it out of the way of their campaign donors. Lots of people like Michael argue gleefully for this total idiocy, and there's no chance of them backing down, so you can't correlate lack of reason with lack of education. After all, it's very easy to justify anything; just try to argue with someone who doesn't want any gun regulations, for example. It's like talking to a brick, only the brick is more intelligent.

I just don't see how it's possible to make a better country - meaning a united one - when half its citizens are unabashed dimwits. Before this I thought fascists only rose when times were tough, based on history. No. Most Txxxx voters earn in the $70K range. Yes, a study just came out showing that they may all be paying a lot for housing, so maybe there is still more to the economic fears explanation after all. But the main thing is that they don't want those other people around. Somehow I don't think that's on the table.

It just feels hopeless. We have the former Speaker of the House running around arguing for religious persecution. The alt right types have risen from the sewer. Most of the 60 million pathetic assholes who are going to vote for Txxxx simply don't care what he is; they just know they don't like Democrats, who are guilty of advocating policies that will actually help them.

Maybe I'll be more positive tomorrow after the election, but right now I find it all totally depressing.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

NYC Composer said:


> Nick calls groups of people and politicians stupid, not individuals in the thread.



Really? He's not insulting me with posts like below? You're splitting hairs. Nick most definitely insults individuals. He masks it, but it is in effect the same. He calls all conservatives idiots, knowing full well I'm a conservative. & many times, he mentions me by name in the same thread, like below. He is passive-aggressively insulting me. Don't make excuses for him. He should have his moderation duties stripped. And yes, I reported the post. I think it's my first report ever. I'm that sick of it.



Nick Batzdorf said:


> Lots of people like Michael argue gleefully for this total idiocy, and there's no chance of them backing down, so you can't correlate lack of reason with lack of education. After all, it's very easy to justify anything; just try to argue with someone who doesn't want any gun regulations, for example. It's like talking to a brick, only the brick is more intelligent.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

I'm not being passive at all. My opinion is perfectly open: your opinions suck and are sociopathological and irrational - along with those of half the country.

This is a horrible time in our history, and I - and most normal people - find it very upsetting.

But here's something personal, since you mention it: you sound like a "Hillary should be disqualified for her emails" person. I'm sick of people having conservative opinions and pretending that they're perfectly reasonable. So there.


----------



## Soundhound

I completely agree with Nick. And it is really depressing. It seems like half the country has been convinced that Hillary Clinton is a conniving scoundrel. And there is absolutely no real evidence for it. None. At all. In any way. There are stories all over the place on sites that are purely right wing rumor mills like Breitbart etc. and Fox News does whatever it can do further these lies. The republicans in office are just as guilty, if not more. 

The hate for Hillary Clinton is pure, unadulterated misogyny, tapped in to by the right wing for political gain. The way Nixon used racism in the south to gain office. The way the republicans used racism after Obama was elected to regain control of congress. It's disgusting. 

And Clinton is running against someone who is truly a scoundrel, an awful person. A pathological liar, a genuine threat to this country. I've never seen anything like this. And the worst part is the far right radicals already in office will seem normal after this. Ryan, McConnel, New Gingrich, Trey Goudy for crying out loud. 

The republicans who have been refusing to consider Obama's supreme court nominee should be brought up on charges, or kicked out of office, or something for crissake, however it can be properly done. These bastards since the 90s decided that they are the one true way, they know better and the end justifies the means. They are a menace. It's that hubris that got us into a completely unnecessary war that created Isis. Those people were Saddam Hussein's army goddammit. And the republicans have the temerity to blame it on Clinton and Obama. It's complete and utter bullshit and it goes over because people don't read the freaking newspaper. 

Oh that's right, they don't trust real newspapers. They think the New York Times is a left wing rag. Because they were told so by Rush Limbaugh. We have a nation who's population is now 50% people who have been poisoned by propaganda. They are dangerously ignorant. And as such they wind up voting against their own interests over and over again, suckered in by the republican party. 

The sons of bitches are already saying they're going to continually work for impeachment when Clinton gains office. This is dangerous, people. It's really really bad. I am just as angry and worried about this as Nick is. 

The only hope I have, is that Hillary Clinton is kind of a badass. When she first came on the scene she was a genuine progressive. Whether or not that's still true I don't know, but I have to hope it is. She's definitely a fighter, extraordinarily capable and smart. 

Assuming she wins tonight, I'm going to be pulling for her every day.


----------



## NYC Composer

I understand your feelings Michael. It's not how I like to go about it, as you know. However, as a lifelong liberal, I understand Nick's frustration. This is my curse, seeing many sides of things.

I believe, late in life, in trying my absolute hardest to reject cynicism and despair, to argue passionately but respectfully to the best of my ability, to stop posing ironically as so many of my fellow pseudo-intellectuals do, to try to find a way forward, to find comity in a country and a world that is rapidly going the other way. I am on a personal crusade for civility and to seek common ground.

After 9/11, I came to wonder why people could be so very very good in crisis and so terrible to one another in day to day life. I still remember being one of hundreds of people on line at St Vincent's hospital to give blood, which was heartbreaking because really, there were few wounded compared to the many many fatalities. People all over the country sent their love to their fellow Americans in New York. How did we get here from there? It's time for this country to become less bitter at crackle other, to talk, to listen. There are things we won't be able to come together on. Let's figure out some things we can.

Nick, I don't know the answer to your question, but I want to explore it.


----------



## NYC Composer

Hound and Nick, I'm delighted you guys agree, but the millions of "wrong" people in America belong here too, and some of them have concerns that you don't understand because you are unwilling to listen. Please trust me, that way lies ruin. If that's your path, you and the country will go down with your rectitude intact. I hope it keeps you warm at night.

I want you to participate in my next thread Michael. Make your statements, defend your positions, keep your cool despite the above posts. Be single minded against disrespectful disparagement.


----------



## Soundhound

It always makes me remember Peter O'toole walking onstage at a show right after 9/11, a benefit I assume. He stood at the mic, and in that way only he could, said 'America, you are very, very good.' It was lovely and beautiful and incredibly charitable, and gave hope.

That has been taken from us, and I'm angry about it.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Larry, what's there left to listen to? I've heard *all* the arguments Republicans make over and over, I understand them inside out, and it just doesn't matter how much I want to respect them, they're simply ridiculous across the board. Maybe I need to understand what makes them that way with a little more patience, but it's very difficult to do while they're smashing my (and the whole country's) nuts in a vise.

If it were just a matter of different values, as with abortion or capital punishment, that would be one thing. But their arguments make zero sense from any angle - economic, social, practical... and that's why their arguments never advance: they never had anything worth saying, so they just repeat the same things.

One thing I should have said differently is that there are differences between libertarian-style conservatism, Republicanism, and Txxxx supporters. In the abstract, "limited government" ideology makes intellectual sense... except as soon as you look at what it means in the real world, that vanishes.

Sorry, I don't believe the problem is a matter of attitude. Do you find that anyone listens to you when you're trying to be nice? It's not an intellectual disagreement, it's that Republicans get where they are because it's an identity.


----------



## NYC Composer

Well Nick, you vehemently disagree with me in these matters, yet here you are.


----------



## NYC Composer

Soundhound said:


> It always makes me remember Peter O'toole walking onstage at a show right after 9/11, a benefit I assume. He stood at the mic, and in that way only he could, said 'America, you are very, very good.' It was lovely and beautiful and incredibly charitable, and gave hope.
> 
> That has been taken from us, and I'm angry about it.


Nothing happens in a vacuum. 

Sometimes it's wiser to man up and say "ok, there may, in a world of infinite possibilities, be one or two things I don't get. Maybe I could listen to other people's concerns as if it were possible that I don't know everything, that not everything I see as regressive is to be rejected out of hand before examining it thoroughly-like maybe as an analytical exercise, instead of a knee-jerk loathing of people who believe in and want different things than I do."

Think, at the end, of how much more convinced you could be of how right you are about everything! (If that was possible.)

Here's a quick example, something I discuss with my military son. You hate war, right? I do. The most horrible thing that can happen. Makes people inhuman, the things that go on. Yet, I'm not ready to believe in human nature to the degree that I think we can stand down completely. So who fights these wars? Young men. They want to fight when they go in, because hanging around a base is boring and there's no chance for honor or glory or the sort of action young men like. 

If we need warriors, do we want them NOT to want to fight? How would that be good? It's an increasingly fraught outlook for the West these days. I'd prefer our soldiers be pretty good at what they do.

People whose families have a military tradition of sacrifice and a calling are often not liberal minded. Are they bad, regressive, to be rejected out of hand?
Wars are too often fought by the poor, but today's military is much more diverse than it once was, and smarter than some people think as well. I was surprised and chastened by some of the things I've learned.

Well. I've had a little sensitivity training in this matter, having hung out on bases and talked to a bunch of military family members and done s lot of talking and reading. My point is-sometimes we just don't know what we don't know, and it's possible that maybe we should be open to knowing a little more.

Or not.

All that said, holy hell I hope she's elected.

.


----------



## NYC Composer

Nick, as usual, you and I agree about most issues across the board. Our differences are more than just stylistic, though. Obamacare is a hot mess. Government does many things inefficiently. Obama was stymied and checked at many turns, and yes I believe it was racist, but I also believe he's not a schmoozer, and that's was called for. She's more of a centrist than he is. I'll bet she gets more done and we won't like some of it. Think Bill.


----------



## NYC Composer

To quote a great writer, and I certainly hope he's prophetic:

"Trump can't win. Our national experiment can't end because one aging narcissist got bored of sex and food. Not even America deserves that. But that doesn't mean we come out ahead. We're more divided than ever, sicker than ever, dumber than ever. And there's no reason to think it won't be worse next time."

Matt Taibbi is a great writer who I thoroughly enjoy and that's good writing, but I don't want to believe in his last statement. It's either a cautionary or a giving up. I don't want to give up. Let's try to leave something for our kids.


----------



## chimuelo

I totally agree.
Half of the country is out of thier minds.
Theyve wasted 10 trillion and screwed over workers by redistributing the cash to investors.
Im voting for them on the hopes thier corruption and stupidity works this time.

Im seeing Nevada has gone red.
I aint buying that.
Its a Trump sandwich.
Full of baloney with Russian sauce.
That means hispanics have voted for Trump.
Must be dummies to pass up free stuff from rich whites.


----------



## NYC Composer

You're voting for them to prevent the dissolution of this country via the election of a stupid, dangerous jerk.


----------



## chimuelo

Years from today when the rich whites have resettled in thier Chinese mansions, what will you tell your grandchildren.
Ill them I voted for the rich whites, so shut up and make thier house payments.


----------



## NYC Composer

That's really ironic, Jimmy. Well done. 

What would you tell them if you voted for Trump?


----------



## chimuelo

That Bill was an ugly first lady, and Melania loves her Cone Tree.....


----------



## NYC Composer

Comedy. It ain't easy.


----------



## chimuelo

Neither is voting for greedy incompetent public servants.


----------



## NYC Composer

Neither would seeing your country burn to the ground.


----------



## chimuelo

Speaking of burning, the Lord will smitten me for voting 4 HRC in his little Church, so I am playing Christian Hymns for 15 minutes in hopes of forgiveness.
It's just me the black racist preacher and his wife and two white racists.
They loved my Amazing Grace ala Floyd Kramer.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hillary wins. Lord Ashcroft has spoken and is a trustworthy pollster.

What a funny little church?


----------



## chimuelo

9 parking spaces.
Played Piano till the bell rang, voted, went and had some Ham and Grits, back home within the hour.

Just another advantage of.living in racist rural America.

Going to give the Preachers daughter
a Piano lesson and teach her what the books don't show.

Pretty sure the Lord will take these offerings into consideration for casting a vote for these Godless Saxon heathens....


----------



## Baron Greuner

I have 2 great nieces that are half English and half German. Someone mentioned to me once that that they were really pretty but looked slightly different, almost unusual. I said - they look look like Anglo Saxons, what do you expect?

I won't ask who you voted for btw.

This was fun last night. Funny guy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0828lpl/rich-halls-presidential-grudge-match?suggid=b0828lpl


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Do you find that anyone listens to you when you're trying to be nice?


Yes. Several times, Larry has impacted my thinking because of the thoughtful, reasoned way he has with words. On the contrary, no one listens to screaming banshees. Except for Siouxsie, of course.


----------



## Hannes_F

FYI here is an international online poll conducted by a major German newspaper.
http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/...ry-clinton-votingtool-results/komplettansicht

It is far from representative but perhaps shows a tendency how international internet users could vote if they were allowed.






The physical distribution of tendencies is interesting:





The authors of the article also say that they had struggle to fight voting bots. About 76 % of the bots tried to vote for Trump. For the valid votes the ratio was about reversed with about 69 % of votes for Clinton.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> If it were just a matter of different values, as with abortion or capital punishment, that would be one thing.


Oh, so I just have "different values" when it comes to being opposed to the death penalty because innocent human are sometimes executed. I just have "different values" for being opposed to abortion because innocent human beings are executed.
The protection of innocent lives is a value that all people should have. 
I hope you're one of these people who think that a fetus is not a human being. Because if you do know that a fetus is a human being and yet you still support killing it, then - to put it in your own eloquent words - "Your opinion sucks!"


----------



## Soundhound

My contention is that modern (post reagan) right wing politics is invested with a sense of righteous entitlement that is dangerous in a supposedly pluralistic society. I would use this latest exchange as a case in point. Michael, you accuse others of acting inappropriately, yet you accuse them of murder. That is hypocritical in my view. And then when things get tough, you call mommy and daddy, as others on the right have done in this thread.

I put it to the group, how do you have a constructive conversation with people like this? I would love to think it's possible, but honestly I don't see how.

As has been said, 'this is why we can't have nice things'.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Always remember Dukakis and the massive mistake he made during his debate with Bush Snr.


----------



## Soundhound

I know Adrian can't hear me, so this will hopefully not cause anyone stress. That is the election in which the Democrats realized they had to, in the light of reactionary right wing politics, run someone who could play politics in a league with the right wing. An intelligent, reasonable, successful governor like Dukakis just wasn't going to cut it anymore. They needed a shark of their own. And they got theirs in Bill Clinton, who was a very smart guy, but wound up buckling under right wing pressure and wound up with with essentially a center right presidency. 
But that wasn't enough for them, they still impeached him for absolutely no reason. 

It continues to this day.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

> Nick, as usual, you and I agree about most issues across the board. Our differences are more than just stylistic, though. Obamacare is a hot mess.



Obamacare is a tremendous success, including 20 million new people with healthcare and a lot of more healthy people.

It has encountered a real problem (not enough healthy people in the exchanges, causing rate hikes to where the costs were originally projected for a relatively small number of people), but it's one that's easily fixed, and when I have more time I'll go into details.

But saying the whole thing is a hot mess is wrong.



> Government does many things inefficiently.



That's because it's made up of people from the human race. It also does a lot of things really well.



> Obama was stymied and checked at many turns, and yes I believe it was racist, but I also believe he's not a schmoozer, and that's was called for.



Hah. You need to read the excerpts from his book on that subject.



> She's more of a centrist than he is. I'll bet she gets more done and we won't like some of it. Think Bill.



What policies are more centrist? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just asking why you say that.

Bill Clinton was forced to "triangulate" to avoid the worst when he lost both Houses. I doubt that's a good template.


----------



## NYC Composer

Nick-for the next thread.

None of it matters if she doesn't win. Which she better goddamn well do.


----------



## Red

Funny how all the European countries that just got screwed by immigration are now for Trump.


----------



## Soundhound

There are Trump supporters out on the street corners here in Peachtree City, it feels like living in Germany in the 30s. For some crazy reason I'm craving a little brisket.


----------



## NYC Composer

And some kugel. 30 min later it's "Oy, what the hell was I thinking??"


----------



## Soundhound

Such a deal!


----------



## chimuelo

Obamacare was a lame version of Romneycare designed to be litigated.

Section 53 goes into detail about creating an armed enforcement militia if you ever cared to read it.
Maybe written to assist FEMA during a natural disaster, it's unclear but does exist.
1000s of pages of ambiguous points of argument.

Simple answer is it was designed to fail causing employers to drop coverage leaving us with Union Veterans Administration Jack ass insurance.

Pre existing condition and price caps would have made insurance companies competitive creating a much better risk pool.

But then again monopolies are a Liberal favorite.
Look at last 8 years of mergers.
Look at small businesses and banks.
Now compare that to the wants and desires of their supposed arch enemy the GOP.
See any differences?

Globalists are pleased and Sheep are told to be happy.
They clack thier hooves in approval as they were told they won.
What was won is unclear.
But losers always like winning.
Like a warm and fuzzy participation trophy...

Ankyu


----------



## Soundhound

Don't forget to tip Jimmy, he's here all week.


----------



## NYC Composer

Red said:


> Funny how all the European countries that just got screwed by immigration are now for Trump.


I hope their voting doesn't sway the election.


----------



## higgs

I'm definitely gripped today.

Well, no matter the result it will be nice to finally stop biting my nails and drinking myself into a state of who-gives-a-fu¢redness. What will I do with all the time that frees up?


----------



## Red

chimuelo said:


> when the rich whites have resettled in thier Chinese mansions



Not to disappoint, but I think it already happened 10 years ago. Haven't quite moved in yet, but plenty of renovating going on.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...mmad-mohammed-mohammad-muhammed-a7222191.html
Most common baby name in England is now Muhammad.
Globalization is in full motion and I'm having quite fun watching the world collide.


----------



## chimuelo

Dick(head)Morris says Trump will win.
We know what that means.


----------



## NoamL

Anyone want to start a friendly pool for Clinton's electoral votes? Closest result that doesn't go over wins & gets bragging rights.

I'll take *Clinton 307 EV*


----------



## chimuelo

Red said:


> Not to disappoint, but I think already happened 10 years ago.
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...mmad-mohammed-mohammad-muhammed-a7222191.html
> 
> Globalization is in full motion and I'm having quite fun watching the world collide.



But it's grown in the last 6 years exponentially.
The cost of housing in Tsingtao and Shanghai will burst before long and lessons learned here like Feinstein's husband did in California will bring in the Sharks.


----------



## Guy Bacos

What are your predictions? Let's see who comes the closest.


----------



## NYC Composer

Clinton 289. (Have no idea of the math but what the hell.)


----------



## chimuelo

As Clubber Lang said in Rocky.....

Predictions?
Yes, predictions....
Pain.

Clubber, do you accept the challenge from Balboa.....
No. I refuse the challenge, because Balboa is no challenge.
But I'd be happy to beat up on him summo.....


----------



## Guy Bacos

No doubt, pain ahead, but no numbers? Come on!


----------



## Red

He's from the future.

Trump 290 or I just lost a grand. lol


----------



## Hannes_F

Red said:


> Funny how all the European countries that just got screwed by immigration are now for Trump.


No no. It is those countries that _feel _screwed because they have populist politicians that tell them so. The others took immigrants and are still against Trump.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Clinton 304.


----------



## Red

Hannes_F said:


> It is those countries that _feel _screwed because they have populist politicians that tell them so.



The fatalist in me sees those two as the same thing.

Hard to love one another when we have such judgemental primate brains.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Nick, your prediction?


----------



## NYC Composer

Red said:


> The fatalist in me sees those two as the same thing.
> 
> Hard to love one another when we have such judgemental primate brains.


Hard to love one another if there's no effort to do so.


----------



## NoamL

Exit polls have just been released. These are nationwide randomized surveys of voters leaving the voting stations.

Only 44% of voters had a favorable opinion of Clinton and the number calling her honest was lower - 41%. But both figures were even worse for Trump (37% and 35%). By contrast, Obama's approval rating was 54% among voters leaving the polls.

Our running electoral college pool -

@NoamL - Clinton 307
@Guy Bacos - Clinton 304
@NYC Composer - Clinton 289
@Red - Clinton 248


----------



## Hannes_F

I say Clinton 273.


----------



## kavinsky

Wasn't that bloody obvious that Clinton definitely wins, right from the moment she stole the nomination from Sanders (the most popular candidate of this election)?

I'm truly astonished you guys are really believing in all of this mockery.

did you guys even read those wiki leaks emails, that are undeniably legit by the way?
it's just rediculous how your 'democratic' mainstream media ignores this. 
"russia is behind the leaks" though. that's all, yes.


----------



## NoamL

*4 million* more voters cast their ballots for Clinton than Sanders. That's a lot of votes to steal.

The main reasons Sanders lost are, in decreasing order of importance -

1. didn't expand his coalition beyond young White people (the main reason)
2. subpar and inflexible debater, tried to make everything into an economic argument
3. refused to "go negative" & articulate direct critiques of Clinton until after already losing many states
4. campaign was too focused on online activism and fundraising, not enough on canvassing & voter reg
5. had few endorsements due to pissing off many potential allies (think Ted Cruz)

All things considered, really not that hard to foresee Sanders would lose and it has nothing to do with Wikileaks... people are too obsessed with conspiratorial thinking. Anyone who understands the basic math of the Democratic Party understands you can't win the nomination with 10% of the Black vote and 20-35% of the over 65 vote. Sanders is simply no Obama. He's more the Ron Paul of the Democratic Party. Big online, a nothinburger in real life.


----------



## JonFairhurst

CLINTON *∞*. 

Not really. 

CLINTON *537*. 

There's one electoral college guy in my state who supported Bernie and feels that Clinton hasn't given enough support to Native American issues, so he refuses to vote for her. He risks a $1,000 fine. If not for him, I'd go with 538.

Because who the hell in their right mind would vote for Trump?


----------



## NYC Composer

kavinsky said:


> Wasn't that bloody obvious that Clinton definitely wins, right from the moment she stole the nomination from Sanders (the most popular candidate of this election)?
> 
> I'm truly astonished you guys are really believing in all of this mockery.
> 
> did you guys even read those wiki leaks emails, that are undeniably legit by the way?
> it's just rediculous how your 'democratic' mainstream media ignores this.
> "russia is behind the leaks" though. that's all, yes.


What country are you from, Kavinsky?


----------



## Hannes_F

As I am watching CNN right now - are these exit polls we are seeing, or the actual votes?


----------



## Hannes_F

OK I guess it's real votes.


----------



## NoamL

Hannes here is a link to the live vote counting.

Tonight is not looking good so far. Trump could narrowly scrape through in Virginia and Florida. Together with more decisive wins in Ohio, North Carolina and Iowa, that would be enough to win.

This is going to be a long night of waiting for deep blue cities in Florida and northern Virginia to report their results. The rural counties, which are solid red, report their votes earlier.


----------



## NoamL

In addition, control of the House of Representatives has already been called (the Republicans retain it) and they remain heavy favorites to control the Senate as well.


----------



## NYC Composer

The Night of the Long Knives.


----------



## chimuelo

Well a beautiful democrat won in Illinois Senate race.
Actually served her country and its these folks that give worthless Liberals a good name.

For unfamiliar folks you see Duckworths face only.
Her legs were blown off in the nytimes conservative liberal war in iraq.

We need more like her, Tulsi, and the guy that beat the liberal carpetbagger evan byhe.


----------



## NYC Composer

This will be my last post in The Year of Trump.

I want to thank everyone who's participated in this thread at any level, from either side of the aisle. You were most kind in permitting my rantings and adding your thoughts. I am extremely grateful for the input from all of you. 

If Hillary wins, I'll start a new thread that I hope you will participate in. If she doesn't, I hope someone else will start one, and I'd be pleased to participate.

Good luck to all Americans and those from other lands. I wish you all well.

L


----------



## NoamL

Outlook has been downgraded from "not good" to "bad."

The New York Times, whose model is based on checking where early vote returns are being reported and comparing them to '12/'08, is now calling this a 50-50 election. They also give Clinton just 55% chance to win Michigan now, which would be more or less a fatal blow to her campaign if she lost it.

In good news, Clinton is just 1% behind in Virginia. As Loudon and Fairfax Counties check in, she could retake the lead.


----------



## Hannes_F

Well this is going to be close.


----------



## Soundhound

Holy sh*t.


----------



## NoamL

Hillary now leads in Virginia and will continue to gain.

Trump now certain to win Florida, North Carolina, Iowa, and _very_ likely to win Ohio. That means a Trump victory in Michigan is game over.

The NASDAQ is closed, but every open financial market is tanking as every college-degree-holder on Planet Earth knows this is going to be a disaster for the economy. For those of you who went through Brexit, this graph might look familiar:







that's the peso right now... you know, the USA's 3rd greatest trade partner...


----------



## NoamL

Barring an absolute stunner, this is now over. Europeans can go to sleep. Although I can't say "sweet dreams"... :(


----------



## Hannes_F

Sooo .... this is how the NYT forecast changed over the last hours:


----------



## NoamL

Yes Hannes it more or less tracked with Trump's chances in Michigan. He's even favored to win Pennsylvania now, but that would be icing.

Welp, it's really starting to sink in. One party rule. GOP controls White House, Senate and House of Representatives. Two or three supreme court justices will be appointed during the next 4 years.

Trump has vowed to cut 100% of federal funding to clean energy research. We're really looking at an existential decision being made here tonight.


----------



## NoamL

I see few people online talking about the future of Obamacare. It's dead. Republicans will control both houses of Congress and the White House.


----------



## MA-Simon

What the fuck...


----------



## kavinsky

wow, I definitely didn't see that coming


----------



## choc0thrax

Jesus Christ


----------



## Hannes_F

Current NYT projection:





Error margin:


----------



## Lode_Runner




----------



## Sebastianmu

oh boy.


----------



## kavinsky

haha.


----------



## Ashermusic

I have been saying on forums for quite a while that the culture has been devolving into something more crude, more anti-intellectual, and more base. The fact that apparently Trump has just won the presidency proves that while I was wrong about the outcome of the election, I was correct about that. I am glad that I am old enough that I will not see just how low its nadir will be.


----------



## Red

NoamL said:


> @Red - Clinton 248


This will also be my last post on this thread.

This was quite an obvious result for me, thus the bet for a grand on him earlier this year.

There are many ways how I saw this, but the biggest attribution was knowing *who* to listen to.
It's important to remember that most people fail at most things.

Since I was right about this, please have faith in me saying that he will be as good or as bad of a Prezy as Hillary would have been.
In other words, expect not much change.

God bless America,
and thank god for making me an atheist.


----------



## NoamL

Congrats on getting closest to the EV total.

Pardon me if I doubt your prediction that one-party control of Congress, the Senate, the White House, a probable 5-4 or 6-3 Supreme Court, and total dominance of the state legislatures will result in restrained government. Your side won by ginning up a frothing rage. Tonight that rage is vindicated, and tomorrow it gets put into action. The damage to our country's democratic & constitutional traditions will be deep.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Almost 100% sure.

The good news is, America will be great again!!!!


----------



## woodsdenis

God help you


----------



## Soundhound

Thanks, we're gonna need it.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Did we arrive in the age of proto-fascism? Sure feels like it....


----------



## passsacaglia

After reading this article, I really get why ruzkys wanted donald:

https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/geopolitics-russia-permanent-struggle


----------



## chimuelo

I just got an alert the article arrived.
I use a VPN Service to scramble passwords and allow permissions.
So verification slows down feeds.

This and the economy are my main concerns.
Putin just congratulated Trump which sure relieves me.

If China Russia and the USA work together in trade and peaceful agreements trillions in arms can be spent on education and innovation.

Bush then Obama/Clinton cost Americans blood and Treasury, not to mention repeated mistakes.

Hopeful Trump stops this stupidity.


----------



## passsacaglia

He said it ^


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yeah!



Yeah!


Yeah!

More Rap music please Hillary! Really grows on ya!


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hey awesome result. So much for Lord Ashcroft. Hahah! NOT!

Just watching Sky TV and the BBC go into an 18 month long denial process. 

*Never listen to TV stations. They have agendas. Repeat never listen to TV stations. They have agendas.*


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hey! What about about Mr Obama putting the UK to the back of the queue? Can anyone clarify the situation on that now?

Hey guys? What about Mr Obamacare? Does that still stand now?

Hey? Any of you guys over the pond on welfare any good at building roads? Infrastructure work in general? Like walls etc.

Hey? Any of you guys in Euroland wondering what it must be like to have to build and pay for your own armed forces? I can tell you, it's fucking expensive. Nows the time to find out.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Hey guys? Can't you take this to the Supreme Court and ask for another vote? No? Thought not.

Hey though guys? Does this now mean that America takes a positive view of Brexit now Mr Obama doesn't mean anything to to anyone anymore?

Hey guys? Can't you do what Eire did and keep voting until you get the right result? Like with the Lisbon Treaty fiasco? No? Thought not.

Hey guys? I can go on like this all day and probably will.


----------



## Hannes_F

US people, you have spoken what is your will and it should be respected. I am willing to assume the best in everybody until proven otherwise and imagine that somehow you stand together now and be truly creative for a change to the better. What a pity that a stalemate in your political powers has blocked bigger reforms in the past years but at least that obstacle has been overcome now and you can move at all.

The people I see in Europe are widely shocked. There is applause however coming from right-wing populists who see a confirmation of their own recipe. Please teach them that you are better.

I personally hope for you and us that the Republican government will not only be street-smart (which they undoubtedly are) but also a bit wise. And use their new power with the responsibility that this office requires. All the best and good luck to us all.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I very much doubt that this is a Republican government Hannes.

The people of Europe need to WAKE UP! You cannot go on like this. The guy in France who has problems with protecting his citizens, has a pole popularity rating of 4%. That's about the only pole that actually makes any sense to me.

You have Great Britain and now the USA sending out very definite messages. You need to take notice.


----------



## chimuelo

Many people of the last Super Majority are in Congress.
Schumer and Trump been doing business for years so there are many positives.
Hoping for the best.

Stratford articles are a good read.
Parallels to our paranoia from Pearl Harbor..


----------



## Baron Greuner

chimuelo said:


> there are many positives.



Can you imagine how it would over here in GB if that fucking asshole Cameron was still Prime Minister after what he said about Trump to appease his faux fucking liberal asshole friends????

The fact they got rid of that moron in a nanno second was a big positive, but they could have saved so much time if they had done all of that 6 years ago when he was so desperate to become PM, he joined forces in coalition with the liberals. Even the fucking Labour Party had the good sense to turn those pricks down.

At least the BBC tried to put a reasonably to be expected balanced reporting view from the USA as was possible, but if President Trump ever gives an interview to the Sky TV news team you can assume hell just froze over.

The entire Sky TV News team should be sacked today. They are fucking useless articles.


----------



## pixel

Well history is making full circle again. It's just question of time when hard reset happen. It's natural thing. So we have to enjoy our good time because we still can (some of us to be honest). In world where slavery is as big as never before and difference between poor and rich is bigger and bigger it's hard to believe that we're going in right direction


----------



## johnnysampler

Trump just won.... can't believe it.


----------



## Baron Greuner

johnnysampler said:


> Trump just won.... can't believe it.



Not to worry son. Politics has a wonderful way of coming back to you 10 fold and biting you in the ass.


----------



## Hannes_F

Baron Greuner said:


> The people of Europe need to WAKE UP!


Yes especially some politicians need to wake up, true. People feel they are more and more tools for business and finance while it should be the other way round. But that would be a topic for another thread.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Trump is by far the most racist president since long, and this when the world looses more and more democracies to totalitarian nutjobs. Hungary, Turkey, Poland, to name but a few. This is a deeply worrying development and a reminder of the 1932 elections in Germany in many ways.


----------



## pixel

Poland is good example. Government decisions ruining the country, new absolutely sick laws are bringing in and people are doing nothing except posting on FB. Why? because they're already tired fighting each other. Right wing, left wing, vanilla vs chocolate ice creams... citizens of Poland hate each other for every single stupid reason that I can only think of. They're are split and govt is doing everything what only can to divide them even more. 
It's easy to rule and control divided nation. 
I can see that it's what is happening in USA right now. They chose the same approach to divide the nation.


----------



## Baron Greuner

It would have been deeply worrying if this election result hadn't happened. And the 1932 German elections, based on historical fact, were the only logical way they could have gone, before they were entirely overrun? Based on recent events, why would anyone in Germany vote for Merkel after she foisted 1,000,000 faux immigrants on them?

Anyway, the Americans are going to finally get some decent roads by the looks of it.

And where was Hillary Clinton for her speech? Has she not turned up yet? Has she collapsed? Has she filed for divorce? What?


----------



## Ashermusic

She will be delivering her concession speech in about ten minutes .


----------



## chimuelo

This has to hard to do.
Twice now rejected.

She'll say the right thing.
Obama will too.


----------



## NoamL

Morning papers are full of speculation about who will actually govern the country now, since Trump obviously cannot. Pence? Ryan? McConnell? Giuliani?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Why? Is Trump going to be busy with other interests?


----------



## NoamL

Can you get off your high this morning long enough to remember we're talking about a guy who has said Supreme Court Justices sign bills & conduct criminal investigations? A guy has pledged to protect Article XII of the Constitution (which doesn't exist) and who has pledged to "disband the DEP" (a federal agency which doesn't exist, he meant the EPA)? A guy who has never been a governor, a senator, a representative, a city councilman, or a dogcatcher? A guy who pitched the VP position to John Kasich like so?

*As a candidate, Kasich declared in March that Trump was “really not prepared to be president of the United States”. But according to the Kasich adviser (who spoke only under the condition that he not be named), Donald Jr. wanted to make him an offer nonetheless: Did he have any interest in being the most powerful vice president in history?

When Kasich’s adviser asked how this would be the case, Donald Jr. explained that his father’s vice president would be in charge of domestic and foreign policy.

Then what, the adviser asked, would Trump be in charge of?

“Making America great again” was the casual reply.*

He literally knows nothing about the Constitutional roles of powers in our gov't. He has literally no experience of the massive federal org chart that he's now in charge of (except for the several times it prosecuted him for racially discriminatory housing policies and running a scam university, I suppose).

The question of who will govern the country is now of paramount importance. He has almost no actual policy advisors.


----------



## Guy Bacos

I'm not a Trump supporter, but who knows? Maybe Trump will be a great president, I wouldn't count it out. Besides, it's not a one man job. And remember Reagan after 4 years?


----------



## Baron Greuner

OMG! You're quoting garbage. 

If you're going to quote garbage, can you at least balance it out with the garbage of the previous 8 years. You need to understand that based on his run up to the election and provided it's accurate, he couldn't give a Godamn about all of that stuff. People will do that for him while he Wheels and Deals. You now have a businessman as President, not some schister labour lawyer.

Or why not mention say Donna Brazile and how HRC didn't turn down her offer while you're about it.?


----------



## NoamL

Baron Greuner said:


> he couldn't give a Godamn about all of that stuff. People will do that for him while he Wheels and Deals.



That's the point I was making.


----------



## NoamL

Guy Bacos said:


> I'm not a Trump supporter, but who knows? Maybe Trump will be a great president, I wouldn't count it out. Besides, it's not a one man job. And remember Reagan after 4 years?



The policies that Trump has stuck to most consistently during this election, and throughout his entire life, are the Wall, the tariffs, deportation, isolationism. Although Republican Party orthodoxy disagrees with Trump on all these issues, Republican Party orthodoxy just got a massive comeuppance. The GOP postmortem in 2012 said there wasn't enough angry white dudes left in the country and that the GOP had to outreach to women, Latinos and young people in order to win Florida and Virginia. Trump proved them all wrong by mobilizing angry white dudes *on Trump's pet issues* in Michigan and Wisconsin. Trump is now the GOP's best model for getting elected since 2000. Just as there were "Bush Republicans," so there will now be "Trump Republicans." This GOP Congress will give Trump everything he wants and more.

For every reasonable person out there who is thinking *"Maybe Trump won't govern like he campaigned,"* that is horribly wishful thinking. We're talking about a thin skinned narcissist who just received what is, objectively, a complete vindication of his politics. He won't compromise, he'll gloat, then move to crush all his remaining enemies inside the GOP.


----------



## Soundhound

Reagan was a disaster. He led the way to selfish, business first governance. Reagan laid the groundwork for Donald Trump. 

"The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances, and the world consists chiefly of the vulgar."
Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

That is HOW Trump got elected. WHY he got elected is infinitely more complicated, and where the work needs to be done to figure out how to dig out of the dangerous hole we have dug ourselves into. 

I want to believe this is 1980 all over again. I don't want to think the closer precedent is 1932 in Germany, but that is exactly what it looks like.


----------



## NoamL

Soundhound said:


> WHY he got elected is infinitely more complicated



Nope. As data comes in, it's looking more and more simple.

2012 Romney: 60.9 million votes
2016 Trump: 59.2 million and counting

2012 Obama: 65.9 million votes
2016 Clinton: 59.5 million and counting


----------



## Soundhound

I mean what caused people to vote for Trump? Why has the American electorate so often voted against their own interests? Here's my take:

This all started with Reagan selling the country out to selfishness and the interests of big business. It metastasized into New Gingrich, George W Bush, unnecessary war and the devastation of the middle class. The system is indeed broken, and I don't know that Clinton would have been able to do much. But I'm heartbroken that we didn't get a chance to find out. But maybe this is the price we have to pay for letting things get this bad. Now we have to hope this menace doesn't destroy the country for real. And get to work taking back the house and senate in 2018, and then electing a genuinely progressive president in 2020. The hard work starts now.


----------



## Desire Inspires

I'm not worried. These things tend to work themselves out in the end.


----------



## Guy Rowland

Desire Inspires said:


> I'm not worried. These things tend to work themselves out in the end.



You're right. After 1933, there was a 1945. Nothing to worry about.


----------



## Guy Bacos

I'm not as knowledgeable as many of you here in american politics, but as I recall, Reagan, mainly in his first term, gave a boost to the economy, and I think his charismatic personality had something to do with it, Americans loved that, and for a while it worked.


----------



## Soundhound

It didn't work, it sold out the system to big business. It made it ok to be greedy and only look out for yourself. It created the for profit prison system, the war on drugs, which was really a war on the poor. Without Reagan there would have been no W, no Iraq war, no W, no Trump. Ronald Reagan was the worst thing to have ever happened to America. Until now.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Soundhound said:


> It didn't work, it sold out the system to big business. It made it ok to be greedy and only look out for yourself. It created the for profit prison system, the war on drugs, which was really a war on the poor. Without Reagan there would have been no W, no Iraq war, no W, no Trump. Ronald Reagan was the worst thing to have ever happened to America. Until now.



Seems every president is the worst thing that ever happened in American history, seriously, depending on where you stand too. But you could be right about Reagan, it's just what I recall.


----------



## woodsdenis

NoamL said:


> Morning papers are full of speculation about who will actually govern the country now, since Trump obviously cannot. Pence? Ryan? McConnell? Giuliani?


According to sources Giuliani as AG, Gingrich as Secretary of State, Prebus as Cheif of Staff and wait for it.. Corey Lewendowsky as RNC chief. Lovely bunch.


----------



## johnnysampler

How are they going to deport 10 million Mexicans?
There are going to be some war between Mexicans vs police on street every single day. Can you guys imagine? 
This will be just like Hitler attacking jews.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Just wondering if people like Goldman Sachs will donate to the Clinton Foundation as from today.


----------



## Baron Greuner

johnnysampler said:


> This will be just like Hitler attacking jews.



Will you people PLEASE stop with your Hitler shit. Do actually know where Germany is btw?


----------



## Guy Bacos

Did Trump actually say: " We owe Hillary a major debt of gratitude for her service to our country?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Yes, but that doesn't mean they're engaged or anything like that.


----------



## Guy Bacos

I know  but it's such a contrast with what he was saying about her 24 hours before. Just interesting to hear these scripted lines.


----------



## Baron Greuner

All stock markets have gone way up.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Folks, can I throw in a question that is on my mind, seriously!

Have a look: http://www.mhs.com/product.aspx?gr=saf&id=overview&prod=pcl-r2

If I am not mistaken, this "test" - Lacking a better word describing certain inefficiencies of every methodology - is /was accepted in courts to determine the mental health of a person that is claimed to be someone with antisocial personality disorder or worse_.
_
I remember, that there was "an issue" about the general health of both candidates and pressure to release the medical results.

What I don't know is whether there are "checks and balances" in place to determine a certain level of mental health, or perhaps it is more correct to say to determine the absence of a serious mental health disorder for every candidate.

Personally, I think Mr. Trump suffers from serious multiple personality disorders, and I am serious about it.

I did not follow the whole story to be honest, I mean seriously, come one, 1.5 years bullshit? I have better things to do.

Again, it is a serious question on my mind, not meant in a cynical way, but I undestand the person Trump on a similar level as Kim Jong-un, "your dear supreme leader", when it comes to personality traits.

?


----------



## chillbot

Baron Greuner said:


> All stock markets have gone way up.


I'll trade all of my stocks for a revote.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chillbot said:


> I'll trade all of my stocks for a revote.



You're a sad man Chill, but I like ya!


----------



## Baron Greuner

G.R. Baumann said:


> Personally, I think Mr. Trump suffers from serious multiple personality disorders, and I am serious about it.



Thank God for that. I thought it was just me.

All Presidents should have multiple personality disorders. It's a pre-requisite that comes with getting the job. Just going out and bunging around 2.5 million emails on a private server just doesn't cut it for me. You need that _and_ a personality disorder if you want to be President.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Where's Larry?

*Larry!!!!!*


----------



## Guy Bacos

I thought his speech was *excellent*, and maybe we'll see a different Trump in office.


----------



## Sebastianmu

And it doesn't bother anyone that, infact, the majority of american voters voted for Hillary Clinton? That the vote of some imbecile hill-billy counts more than the vote of a person living in New York City? I find that spectacularly insane.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Wonder how long it'll be before the head of the FBI resigns.


----------



## chillbot

Guy Bacos said:


> I thought his speech was *excellent*, and maybe we'll see a different Trump in office.


Yes. But not in the way you're thinking. I wrote music for The Apprentice for 15 seasons. You haven't seen anything yet.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Sebastianmu said:


> That the vote of some imbecile hill-billy counts more than the vote of a person living in New York City? I find that spectacularly insane.



Run on down to Bible Belt and tell them that would you, there's a good chap.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Sebastianmu said:


> That the vote of some imbecile hill-billy counts more than the vote of a person living in New York City? I find that spectacularly insane.



What? You think people that live in New York aren't imbeciles???

*LARRY!!!!*


----------



## Guy Bacos

chillbot said:


> Yes. But not in the way you're thinking. I wrote music for The Apprentice for 15 seasons. You haven't seen anything yet.



Some will say, that was a different life, his celebrity life style. I think we you have to give him the chance to prove himself as a solid leader.


----------



## chillbot

Guy Bacos said:


> Some will say, that was a different life, his celebrity life style. I think we you have to give him the chance to prove himself as a solid leader.


I'm not talking about on camera or on TV. Don't stress it, you'll find out soon enough I suppose. Might as well be an optimist while you can!


----------



## AlexRuger

Given the fact that we now have Trump as president, a Republican-controlled Senate, and anywhere between 1 and 3 Supreme Court seats open or soon opening in the coming years...

I think we can bet on Obamacare will be repealed.

This scares the hell out of me. What will freelancers like us do for healthcare? I've not dealt health insurance before Obamacare, and all I've heard from musicians and other freelancers is that before Obamacare, many just didn't have insurance. That's unacceptable.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Baron Greuner said:


> Where's Larry?
> 
> *Larry!!!!!*



Yeah, perhaps that's a better question to ask.  

The Internet is to the incumbents of our times as the Gutenberg press was at times of Dietrich Nieheim, notary for pope Urban VI.


----------



## AlexRuger

Guy Bacos said:


> Seems every president is the worst thing that ever happened in American history, seriously, depending on where you stand too. But you could be right about Reagan, it's just what I recall.



It's so much more nuanced than that. I'm a progressive through and through, but I will happily admit that HW Bush, Ford, Eisenhower were fine Republican presidents, to name a few. I'd happily take any of them. Presidents are usually quite tempered in reality--checks and balances and all--so practically speaking, a Jeb Bush or a Hillary Clinton would've been very similar.

But Reagan's policy's more or less directly got us where we are now. Sure, the post-WWII economic boom has also thoroughly worn off, but Trickle Down did so much long and lasting damage. It's ironic that those who suffered most from those policies now voted in Trump.

And Trump is a whole different beast. Anyone who thinks that Democrats are playing Chicken Little are full of it. 

This is very bad unless you're very rich.


----------



## Guy Bacos

chillbot said:


> I'm not talking about on camera or on TV. Don't stress it, you'll find out soon enough I suppose. Might as well be an optimist while you can!



Everybody knows about his hypocrisy, it's not as it's a secret anymore, but hey, we could probably say horror stories about Bill Clinton, Hillary, Bush, Obama, even Michelle Obama, etc I mean one example is * "Culture of Corruption"* by Michelle Malkin, not very flattering stories about Obama, my point is, some are just as bad or worse but have better cover ups.


----------



## thov72

man, 225 pages spent on that guy...way to go, Donald


----------



## Red

Have to break my word and post again.

I love how all the people who were wrong yesterday are now pedaling new opinions. Just like TV heh?

Trump is not racist, Trump is not Hitler, Trump is not evil, Trump is not going to change America in any real way.
But perceptually to weak minded floaters this might seem like the end of the world.

No one in the world has any real power to change your life except you.
The rest is just conversation piece for dumb people.


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Red said:


> Trump is not racist


----------



## Guy Bacos

Red said:


> I love how all the people who were wrong yesterday are now pedaling new opinions. Just like TV heh?



Well for me, Trump was the last person I'd want, but now he IS the president, and you have to give him the chance at least, and maybe he will be a great president. Who am I to reject that possibilty?


----------



## G.R. Baumann

Going to open a Château Mouton now.... what better thing to do after such cataclysmic last few hours?

Right Larry? 

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.752088


----------



## Guy Bacos

If you were to find out Churchhill was a racist, people would surely not have voted for him. He's probably not, just making this up, but the point is, let's not be naive and cherry pick the good things and bad things we are aware of. Imagine if wikiLeaks had existed back then?


----------



## Baron Greuner

G.R. Baumann said:


> The Internet is to the incumbents of our times as the Gutenberg press was at times of Dietrich Nieheim, notary for pope Urban VI.



Sorry. The only Pope I'm interested in is Pope Adrian IV. Died of Quinsy.




Or was he.............poisoned? (bam bam bam baaaaaaaaaam)


----------



## Baron Greuner

Guy Bacos said:


> If you were to find out Churchhill was a racist, people would surely not have voted for him.



Churchill was a keen racist.

Do you know who Lord Halifax was?


----------



## Baron Greuner

AlexRuger said:


> I think we can bet on Obamacare will be repealed.
> 
> This scares the hell out of me. What will freelancers like us do for healthcare? I've not dealt health insurance before Obamacare, and all I've heard from musicians and other freelancers is that before Obamacare, many just didn't have insurance. That's unacceptable.




Yes, and Dr Ben Carson will do the repealing. Part of the reason is 
because when you hit 50 employees etc etc etc. So employers stop somewhere before that number.

Which is insane.


----------



## Baron Greuner

chillbot said:


> I'm not talking about on camera or on TV. Don't stress it, you'll find out soon enough I suppose. Might as well be an optimist while you can!



I love that honeymoon period. But it's the chaos l look forward to the most.


----------



## AlexRuger

Baron Greuner said:


> Yes, and Dr Ben Carson will do the repealing. Part of the reason is
> because when you hit 50 employees etc etc etc. So employers stop somewhere before that number.
> 
> Which is insane.



So, really, what can we do? Those who dealt with health insurance as freelancers pre-Obamacare...what did you do? Information is very hard to come by--Googling health insurance for freelancers only comes up with Obamacare stuff.


----------



## Baron Greuner

The problem of healthcare is a conundrum to anyone that is English.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

I'm really hurting right now, and so are a lot of people I know. It feels like a death.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

AlexRuger said:


> So, really, what can we do? Those who dealt with health insurance as freelancers pre-Obamacare...what did you do? Information is very hard to come by--Googling health insurance for freelancers only comes up with Obamacare stuff.


I paid $160 a month for limited benefits plan, could have had major medical for $220. Stupidly, I didn't get it. After Obamacare came into being, I have no insurance because the carrier ended that program (I guess because Ocare doesn't count limited benefit plans as "insurance"). Major medical would now cost me no less than $360 and that's with a 6K deductible, when I could've had a 1.5k deductible before.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I'm really hurting right now, and so are a lot of people I know. It feels like a death.



There's a house for sale on my street, if you like Quebec.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Baron Greuner said:


> Churchill was a keen racist.
> 
> Do you know who Lord Halifax was?



Maybe I had head that, that's why a said it, but let's not deviate from my point. Churchill was a great leader during the war. Would you disagree?


----------



## Baron Greuner

Guy Bacos said:


> Maybe I had head that, that's why a said it, but let's not deviate from my point. Churchill was a great leader during the war. Would you disagree?



It depends.

Do you know who Lord Halifax was?


Let's also not forget that British MPs including Cameron were calling for banning Donald Trump from entering Great Britain.
I want those people taken out into the square and shot!

Would you agree with that?


----------



## NoamL

"Maybe Trump won't be all the things he quite clearly was 48 hours ago"

I admire yallz's optimism.


----------



## chimuelo

Unwatchable has been checked.

Thread over for me.

Let's leave this for everyone who wants to bleed all over each other.

And Red please pm me with any odds you got on NFL games.
Analytical skills are impressive.
I'm juiced in at the right Sports Books off strip.

Cheerz


----------



## Hat_Tricky

AlexRuger said:


> Given the fact that we now have Trump as president, a Republican-controlled Senate, and anywhere between 1 and 3 Supreme Court seats open or soon opening in the coming years...
> 
> I think we can bet on Obamacare will be repealed.
> 
> This scares the hell out of me. What will freelancers like us do for healthcare? I've not dealt health insurance before Obamacare, and all I've heard from musicians and other freelancers is that before Obamacare, many just didn't have insurance. That's unacceptable.



Obamacare is as good as gone by mid 2017 or earlier. There's a plan on the shelf to dismantle it waiting for Trump to just give it a green light. Estimates are 12-20 million Americans will lose health insurance. What will replace it? A giant mess of a plan not unlike what it was before Obama. Probably even worse, tbh.

I am very grateful that Obama did what he could (he had to, of course, make MAJOR compromises) and Obamacare is far from perfect but it was a big step in the right direction.

On a personal level, I will lose my insurance when Obamacare gets repealed. I had my achilles tendon completely torn last year and had Obamacare and was covered for everything. I mean everything. If this had happened in the decades before (where I had nothing or a terrible "major medical" unsurance for 150-200 dollars a month) or after Trump repeals it, I'd have medical bills approaching $20,000. For a person of limited income, this is a life changing event.

Literally, Thanks Obama.


----------



## woodsdenis

chimuelo said:


> Unwatchable has been checked.
> 
> Thread over for me.
> 
> Let's leave this for everyone who wants to bleed all over each other.
> 
> Cheerz



Agreed thread over for me, nothing worse than crowing over others genuine upset. Just one last gem to leave you 
with
h


----------



## chillbot

I don’t know what to tell my kids, I have two daughters.

I don’t know what to tell my mother. My mother is one of the most amazing women I know. She literally was a pioneer of women’s rights. She came out with the very first nonsexist dictionary. She taught me from an early age to say “utility cover” instead of “manhole” and “mail carrier” instead of “mailman” and it just stuck, it was so easy. So many of the words she put into the language 30 years ago are now commonplace for us. Her generation and specifically my mother did so much, and we had a chance to elect the first female president ON HER BIRTHDAY. Shit.

I don’t know what to tell my wife, I told her not to worry. I said, people are going to come out in droves to knock down Trump. I was SO overly-confident I laid a $100 bet that Trump would get less than 40% of the popular vote at 40:1, I was that confident. If I won it was all going to charity. I couldn’t have been more wrong.

I apologize to my wife and my daughters and my mother and my two sisters.

I'll start at the beginning, I have never voted once in my life. I have always been 100% apolitical and agnostic. Before you roast and shame me, I have never cared one way or another about politics and I have never complained about the results. Shame me all you want I don’t give a shit. Though as it was I have been fortunate to have spent my life in three “blue” states... MN, MA, and CA. I don’t bleed blue but it definitely helped with my apathy towards politics, my vote wasn't going to change much.

One of my friends posted on facebook recently, “voting is not a right it’s an obligation.” I disagree, I have always thought that one of the most amazing things about this country is I can choose NOT to vote, that IS my right and it’s something that I take very seriously, not lightly. Colin Kapernick takes a knee during the national anthem.. that’s not something that I would do personally but I respect the freedom that this country offers, and I respect it BIG time. To be clear, I don’t respect him for taking a knee I think it’s a bit of a dick move, but I respect that he has the choice.... he is not FORCED TO STAND any more than I am forced to vote. When I exercise my right NOT to vote, I feel that is my right and it’s something I choose to do. It’s not laziness or apathy, it’s a choice. And I like the choice.

(All that said, were I in any state except for CA I would have voted THIS YEAR, 100%. So maybe a certain amount of stubborness came into play. Because this year changed everything for me.)

BTW, what the fuck MN? How was it possibly that close? Very disappointed.

I didn’t vote for Obama, I didn’t vote at all. I would have, had it mattered, but I was still anti-politics and living in CA. One of the things I hate about politics is so many of my friends are SO FAR left. I would say SO FAR right as well but I don’t think I have any. The point is I can see small parts of both sides (usually) and I don’t like extremists, I consider myself right down the middle. I don’t enjoy the constant FB political posts and the constant shaming into voting, it probably makes my stubborness come out even more. DON’T TELL ME WHAT TO DO.

Obama’s 8 years changed me a bit, in my lifetime I haven’t seen a happier, more complacent presidency. I can’t imagine anything not to like about the guy, so I might have been swayed a bit into the politics. I saw what happened to the economy, to the jobs. He sold me. And an amazing family. Also my stocks have been great... everything has been copacetic. I know people that don’t like him and I wonder what has any other presidency ever done for you that was better?? Seriously, was there one?

One of my friends, I will call him “Nick” recently made a nice public post proclaiming his love for Trump. I will probably never work with Nick again. This is too bad because he is a great guy, and I’d like to get past it if at all possible but I’m not sure that it’s possible. The divisiveness that this country is feeling disgusts me, and going both ways.

I’m scared of where this country is going. Even if Hillary had won, half the country would be terrified of the other half, with maybe legitimate concern. I think Trump winning will ease some of the vigilante violence only because he'll make it mainstream and legal to be racist.

How did it come to this?

“Hillary is a crook” I hear all the time. I like Hillary, not in an overly she’s-a-jolly-good-lady sort of way, but I think she is very qualified, though I was apolitical, remember? My platform was always “anyone but Trump”. I believe that for the people who don’t like Hillary it has little to do with her being a “crook” and everything to do with her being a woman. Remember I grew up with the “nonsexist wordfinder”. The same way I believe that people who didn’t "agree with" Obama’s policies was pretty much just a thinly-veiled “I don’t like black people” protest. It’s hard for me to throw full blame because I think a lot of these people who think this don’t really do it intentionally, it’s just ingrained in [parts of] our great nation. The double-standard of what they would have ROASTED Melania for had she been on the other side. Or Hillary if she had said all the shit that Trump said. Oh wow it would have been fun to watch.

It’s because Trump has crossed the line from politics to racism and misogyny and I feel strongly that anyone that supports this guy is either a moron or a racist. (Sorry, "Nick".) Because for the same reason people don’t support Hillary/Obama people are supporting this guy maybe not even realizing the underlying anti-feminism and racism they feel. There's no way a WOMAN could be president.

But it gets to the point of what I am very lethargically trying to get at. Trump has surpassed politics. The fact that more than 50% of the country can vote for this guy, I guess I’m no longer on the outside of the politics, it’s become personal. It comes back to my many Mexican friends and Mexican workers who I don’t consider “Mexicans” but just “friends”. It comes back to my mother and my wife and my sisters and my daughters.

So all of that rant and that’s still not the worst of it. The worst of it is we just elected a president who doesn’t believe in climate change. And that’s what really brings me out of my apolitical haze. All that money I just lost in the market plunge? Doesn’t matter... don’t give a shit. I care about my daughters and the planet. So for all of you fucks who just wanted a “change” in the white house? Well I hope you don’t have kids because the planet is about to change just for you.

My apologies. Man that felt good. I assume and hope this will get lost somewhere in the middle of a 300-page thread never to be seen again.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Baron Greuner said:


> It depends.
> 
> Do you know who Lord Halifax was?



Nope.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

chillbot said:


> I don’t know what to tell my mother. My mother is one of the most amazing women I know. She literally was a pioneer of women’s rights. She came out with the very first nonsexist dictionary. She taught me from an early age to say “utility cover” instead of “manhole” and “mail carrier” instead of “mailman” and it just stuck, it was so easy. So many of the words she put into the language 30 years ago are now commonplace for us. Her generation and specifically my mother did so much, and we had a chance to elect the first female president ON HER BIRTHDAY. Shit.



Honestly, I don't think you have fret about this one; you don't have to tell your mother anything. If she was a pioneer of womens right, she sounds like a strong woman. She would probably be able to help guide you through this.


----------



## jcrosby

pixel said:


> citizens of Poland hate each other for every single stupid reason that I can only think of. They're are split and govt is doing everything what only can to divide them even more.
> It's easy to rule and control divided nation.



To quote Gangs of New York: "You can always hire one side of the poor to fight the other."

As an American I am freaked the fuck out... The mood here is glum to say the least.


----------



## jcrosby

Soundhound said:


> I mean what caused people to vote for Trump? Why has the American electorate so often voted against their own interests?


Media manipulation. US media has mastered its ability to manipulate the conversation, it's become increasingly right wing biased, religious nuts get a free pass and Silicone Valley only worsens it all by selling distraction through social media...


----------



## jcrosby

chillbot said:


> I'll start at the beginning, I have never voted once in my life. I have always been 100% apolitical and agnostic. Before you roast and shame me, I have never cared one way or another about politics and I have never complained about the results. Shame me all you want I don’t give a shit. Though as it was I have been fortunate to have spent my life in three “blue” states... MN, MA, and CA. I don’t bleed blue but it definitely helped with my apathy towards politics, my vote wasn't going to change much.



You've officially learned the value, and cost of voting in one lesson. It's not a right, it's a privilege. A privilege denied to women until 1920, and denied to African Americans until 1965. People have literally died for that right and now might be a good time to see the value in participating in the future.

I'm not shaming you, I respect your choice, and once shared your opinion, but as someone important to me once said when I was at my most cynical - if you don't vote, you don't earn the right to complain. 

Apathy is just as much to blame here and if you really have the intense feelings you shared consider participating in the future; if for nothing else than to show respect for what women and minorities fought so hard for.


----------



## erica-grace

_I mean what caused people to vote for Trump?_

I really don't think it was that so many people wanted to vote *for* Trump - it's that so many people wanted to not vote for that other woman.

Not that Trump is an innocent here - he certainly is not. He has his own laundry list of issues, and to say that he is far from perfect is the understatement of a lifetime.

Had it been anyone else, Trump would have been killed. Talking numbers, of course. Anyone else would have won by a landslide. But it wasn't anyone else. It was that other woman. All politicians lie, and all candidates lie. Some more than others. But what that woman did was on a level we have never seen here in the USA. Well, maybe Nixon - but that was during his presidency, not while he was vying for it.

So, to me this is not 65m American people saying that they want Trump, this is 65m American people saying that they do not want that other woman. I really think that they were fed up with her lies, her cover-ups, and her phoniness, among other things.



jcrosby said:


> Media manipulation.



No way. What - you are saying Trump manipulated the media? Umm, hate to break it to you, but if anything was NOT media manipulation, this was not. Also hate to break it to you, but most of the media (not all, like Fox, as one ex.), was pulling for her. Therefore, there is no media manipulation whatsoever that happened here.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Haha! Nice one Denis.

Denis, a conciliatory arm around your shoulder, and in low and patronising tones, while pointing to the horizon with subliminal connotations of a better future, I say unto you:

'No right minded American is going to vote for a President that looks like a wigwam'


----------



## Baron Greuner

Guy Bacos said:


> Nope.



Then it's no good talking to me unless you are steeped in history Guy. You need to know your history, otherwise we'll be here forever.

Markets up again.


----------



## jcrosby

No I am saying the media failed to cover Trump with any real reputability. They spent the majority of the year glomming onto him as a revenue goldmine. Only over the last month did you see any real slant as fear of his presidency set in.

So if the media doesn't have any role in this than what outlet do these candidates initially rely on for traction on the national stage? So Donald trump would have had the same impact with no media coverage, just going from state to state one by one?
How did those exposes investigating the very real danger his connection to Putin poses go? How about his failure to dissociate from David Duke's endorsement and the claims he knows nothing about his history as white supremacist and nationalist? These two issues alone should have been damaging enough and the media totally failed to pursue these.

You're telling me that most people are willing to look past white supremacy and being cozy with a despot (let alone any other number of huge issues that came up) simply because they didn't 'like the woman?'

As thick as some of us are I'd wager otherwise if armed with enough information.


----------



## erica-grace

jcrosby said:


> No I am saying the media failed to cover Trump with any real reputability.



Ah, I see.



jcrosby said:


> You're telling me that most people are willing to look past white supremacy and being cozy with a despot



Nobody had to "look past white supremacy" here. That's because there was no white supremest who ran for the presidency.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Baron Greuner said:


> Then it's no good talking to me unless you are steeped in history Guy. You need to know your history, otherwise we'll be here forever.
> 
> Markets up again.



I appreciate your answer, although dismissing my point with that statement is a bit snobby and pretentious.  It takes nothing away from my point, unless you are failing to understand my point, cause Churchill was a random example, and if you souly focus on him and Lord Halifax you are missing the point.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I understand your point and I am snobby and pretentious. 

It's just that you can't talk about Churchill unless you talk about a ton of other characters from that era including Lord Halifax.

Back on the USA election. In the end to me, it's just another election compared to all the other elections. In 1960/61 the Kennedy election was just another election and all these elections throw up characters that fill the history books.


----------



## Guy Bacos

I just said, my point has nothing to do with Churchill, I think you should steer away from this example and go back to my point.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Maybe you're a history buff, but my point has nothing to do with history.


----------



## Baron Greuner

I thought you brought up Churchill originally. It's difficult to talk about characters like Churchill, Hitler, Ribbentrop, Kennedy, Eisenhower etc unless you are able to understand how they fit together in the greater scheme of things.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Well, I could of said, the Queen or Baron Greuner as examples.


----------



## Karl Feuerstake

erica-grace said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody had to "look past white supremacy" here. That's because there was no white supremest who ran for the presidency.



Yes, I would really like for the hardcore Lib extremists to explain to me 1) how Trump is a racist and 2) how Trump is a homophobe. I have heard how he spoke of treating women while he was a star and found it incredibly distasteful, _but_ let's not forget he has raised a wonderful daughter and clearly has shown an ounce of love towards her in his life. Anyhow, I want to hear about how he is a racist and a homophobe, because I have seen no evidence of that. Referring to 'ILLEGAL' immigrants as bringing over criminals is not racist. Infact if anything it is a lexical definition; they are in the country illegally, therefore, they ARE criminals. And as to him being a homophobe.. I recall that he allows Transgender folk to use the bathroom 'of their choosing' in his buildings - he is far more moderate on the topic of LGBT than many other Republicans, and clearly intends to show tolerance towards people's sexual orientations.

If he wants to get rid of criminals in this country, I see no problem with that. That's not 'racism'. If he wants to prevent refugees from coming over from "hostile" countries, I see no problem with that. That's also not racism. That will reduce, if not hopefully prevent, hostiles from coming over. (What is a country that is hostile in my definition? A country with a large amount of terrorist cells.)

And lastly, I recall he intended to help the Black community, and wants to prevent gang-on-gang violence as well as the incidences of cops shooting unarmed Blacks. If anything, that is the complete opposite of racism, he is actually reaching out to help. He never spewed the 'N-word' around or said anything degrading towards African-Americans, and reaching out to help them, further supports that he is NOT a racist.


Also, the immediate assumption by so many Libs that anyone who supports Trump is a 'hate-filled racist' or even insinuating the political leadership to be in line with Nazis or the KKK, the people who spew that fear-mongering are themselves bigots. The immediate assumption that we are all racists, or being a bunch of old white men hell-bent on getting rid of coloured folk and objectifying women, is completely false and shows the hypocrisy of such statements. Trump had 42% of women in favour, and incredibly, 29% of Latinos, so any lumping of these people into being 'old white KKK neo-nazis' is a completely ignorant and bigoted claim. The Liberals preach tolerance and acceptance, well tolerate and accept this: there are people in your country who have beliefs and values that are NOT leftist, and they have a right to vote and choose, and simply the act of being right-wing DOES NOT make you a racist or sexist or a bigot. And a few days ago, those people spoke out. Maybe, since you preach so much tolerance, you should be tolerant of those people.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Baron Greuner is an unsavoury Austrian character from a Sherlock Holmes novel.

Which I deliberately misspelt to throw people of the scent. Uhhhh...


----------



## Guy Bacos

I took a random example to illustrate a point.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Baron Greuner said:


> I thought you brought up Churchill originally. It's difficult to talk about characters like Churchill, Hitler, Ribbentrop, Kennedy, Eisenhower etc unless you are able to understand how they fit together in the greater scheme of things.



With respect to your wealth of knowledge in history and literature, please try to understand my point, it is in post #4481 and 4485.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Jesus Guy I'm trying to work here!

Oh very well then. Wait.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Guy Bacos said:


> Well for me, Trump was the last person I'd want, but now he IS the president, and you have to give him the chance at least, and maybe he will be a great president. Who am I to reject that possibilty?



What this?

Yes very good point Guy.


----------



## Diffusor

To those of us who have been following alt media the Trump win comes at no surprise. We've known for awhile the MSM has been totally inept and biased in their reporting and that most pollsters have been weighting their polls in favor of Hillary. Simply put, the pendulum has just swung back from 8 years of progressive policies that have demonstrably proven to be be inept. Incredible premium rises in healthcare. Really high "real" unemployment stats. 1% GDP growth. Trump totally tapped into this, especially in respect to the rust belt blue states! Michiga, Wisconsin and PA went red people! Michael Moore warned of a Trump win months ago but people didn't listen. Watch his Trumpland doc to understand why this happened in part. People are also sick of this pc SJW culture that has developed. And of course, Hillary was the worse possible candidate for the Dems to prop up. If the DNC hadn't colluded with Hillary to rig the primaries against Bernie we might be seeing a different result. And just look at the Wikileaks and Project Veritas videos. thank god the totally corrupt and criminal reign of the Clinton dynasty is finally at an end. Just accept it. Things have swung back. There is a mandate and repudiation of everything Obama and the left did. The right now control the Presidency, Senate, House and ultimately the Supreme Court. The left got greedy and now the left has lost everything. Own it. You've earned it.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Baron Greuner said:


> What this?
> 
> Yes very good point Guy.



LOL, no ok forget the #, I will quote myself in the next post.


----------



## Guy Bacos

First taking about Trump:



Guy Bacos said:


> Everybody knows about his hypocrisy, it's not as it's a secret anymore, but hey, we could probably say horror stories about Bill Clinton, Hillary, Bush, Obama, even Michelle Obama, etc I mean one example is *"Culture of Corruption"* by Michelle Malkin, not very flattering stories about Obama, my point is, some are just as bad or worse but have better cover ups.



Later said this, however, Churchill was a random example, as I said, could of picked anybody famous and admired. 



Guy Bacos said:


> If you were to find out Churchhill was a racist, people would surely not have voted for him. He's probably not, just making this up, but the point is, let's not be naive and cherry pick the good things and bad things we are aware of. Imagine if wikiLeaks had existed back then?


----------



## Guy Bacos

All I'm saying is, let's not be naive about who's good, who's corrupted and who's not, it always according to what we know of them.


----------



## Baron Greuner

How exactly does Churchill, and where exactly does Churchill fit into 21st century politics though Guy. Churchill was a Victorian character who made a name for himself in Edwardian times overseas while in the army and then in politics.
That generation were by nature all racists. They regarded anyone or anything that came from a foreign country as inferior and if they didn't, they probably would never have got elected. Different ball game. Political correctness meant something else back then. They picked Churchill because he was the only war monger available at the time and because the incumbent Liberal leader was a meddler and couldn't understand the big picture. It came down to Churchill or Lord Halifax. They chose Churchill.
You don't get to rule two thirds of the entire planet unless you're racially prejudice. For example, I think the British wiped out everyone and everything in Tasmania. The only country in the world the British haven't attacked is probably Portugal. In South Africa, during the Boer wars, the British invented the concentration camp and then proceeded to starve them all to death.
During an attack on a city on one of The Crusades, they put approximately 40000 inhabitants to the sword in one day.

So I don't really understand your point about Churchill in todays context Guy. People wouldn't have voted for him if he _wasn't _a racist.


----------



## Guy Bacos

Ok, I'm failing miserably on making this specific point (unrelated to Churchill). So I think I'll drop it. Appreciate your time though.


----------



## Diffusor

Ashermusic said:


> Feeling much better today than a couple of days ago.



Of course all that ended up being totally wrong.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

AlexRuger said:


> This scares the hell out of me. What will freelancers like us do for healthcare? I've not dealt health insurance before Obamacare, and all I've heard from musicians and other freelancers is that before Obamacare, many just didn't have insurance. That's unacceptable.


Exact opposite of my experience and the experience I've heard from other self-employed people. Here's what I wrote in an earlier post:
Before ObamaCare, I paid $160 a month for limited benefits plan, could have had major medical for $220. Stupidly, I didn't get it. After Obamacare became law, I have no insurance because the carrier ended that program (I guess because Ocare doesn't count limited benefit plans as "insurance"). Even i I still had that plan, the gov. would expect me to pay the"no insurance" fine. Major medical would now cost me no less than $360 and that's with a 6K deductible, when I could've had a 1.5k deductible before. I can't afford $360 a month, so I don't have health insurance now.


----------



## Diffusor

If you are freelance you should be making a lot more money. I do compared to what I was making when I worked for a company. You simply put money aside and pay for your own healthcare. Do you expect others to subsidize your decision to be freelance while you potentially make a lot more money? If you don't like it or can't cut it competitively and succesfully go get a job at a company and get a group policy insurance plan. Of course this has become more problematic since Obamacare has been a total disaster and has raised all healthcare costs drastically. Good job.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Diffusor said:


> If you are freelance you should be making a lot more money. I do compared to what I was making when I worked for a company. You simply put money aside and pay for your own healthcare. Do you expect others to subsidize your decision to be freelance while you potentially make a lot more money?


If you are addressing me: No, I do not expect others to pay for my healthcare. As I noted in my post, "I can't afford $360 a month, so I don't have health insurance now".



Diffusor said:


> Of course this has become more problematic since Obamacare has been a total disaster and has raised all healthcare costs drastically. Good job.


Again, if you are addressing me: As I noted in my post, I am well aware of how much health insurance premiums have raised.


----------



## Diffusor

Michael K. Bain said:


> If you are addressing me: No, I do not expect others to pay for my healthcare. As I noted in my post, "I can't afford $360 a month, so I don't have health insurance now".
> 
> 
> Again, if you are addressing me: As I noted in my post, I am well aware of how much health insurance premiums have raised.




I was addressing AlexRuger. Sorry, forgot to quote.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Diffusor said:


> I was addressing AlexRuger. Sorry, forgot to quote.


No prob Bob.


----------



## AlexRuger

Diffusor said:


> If you are freelance you should be making a lot more money. I do compared to what I was making when I worked for a company. You simply put money aside and pay for your own healthcare. Do you expect others to subsidize your decision to be freelance while you potentially make a lot more money? If you don't like it or can't cut it competitively and succesfully go get a job at a company and get a group policy insurance plan. Of course this has become more problematic since Obamacare has been a total disaster and has raised all healthcare costs drastically. Good job.



...are you aware that you're on a composer forum? And that some of us do this for a living? Are you completely delusional? 

Yes, I'll just go ahead and work for a composer company! Then I'll have health insurance! Why didn't I think of that?


----------



## Diffusor

AlexRuger said:


> ...are you aware that you're on a composer forum? And that some of us do this for a living? Are you completely delusional?
> 
> Yes, I'll just go ahead and work for a composer company! Then I'll have health insurance! Why didn't I think of that?




Are you delusional? If you are not making ends meet then maybe you shouldn't be in the business you are. You are saying you expect others should subsidize you? You don't get that? Where do you think the money to fund Obamacare is coming from?


----------



## Hannes_F

Karl Feuerstake said:


> Yes, I would really like for the hardcore Lib extremists to explain to me 1) how Trump is a racist and 2) how Trump is a homophobe.


I don't have a dog in this race but I found this site quite revealing. It seems to me that there the facts are somewhat detached from emotions like sympathy or antipathy, which is quite good most times:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm

Based on 20 topics they classify Trump as Libertarian-leaning conservative, and not even in the extreme. Don't know whether this helps anybody but I found it interesting.

I'll need to check whether I feel can trust this test though. Not sure about the opposition of Libertarian and Populist.


----------



## Diffusor

Hannes_F said:


> I don't have a dog in this race but I found this site quite revealing. It seems to me that there the facts are somewhat detached from emotions like sympathy or antipathy, which is quite good most times:
> http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm
> 
> Based on 20 topics they classify Trump as Libertarian-leaning conservative, and not even in the extreme. Don't know whether this helps anybody but I found it interesting.



Yup. And it is exactly why Trump did so well. I fall in the same spectrum but probably further to the top of that graph.


----------



## jcrosby

erica-grace said:


> Ah, I see.
> Nobody had to "look past white supremacy" here. That's because there was no white supremest who ran for the presidency.



No, I'm not saying he is a white supremacist, but I am saying that giving Trump a free pass when claims he has no idea who David Duke is suspect; both on Trump's part and on the failure of the media to pursue this issue with any reputability.

Trump has a history of speaking about Duke publicly prior to this election.

He considered running under the Reform Party in 2000 and then publicly declined to due so in part to David Duke's affiliation. Yet he claims he doesn't know anything about him? (Clip below.) (We're also talking about a former Grand Wizard of the United State's longest running hate group with a history reaching back to 1865. A hate group notorious for the lynching of freed slaves during the reconstruction era who in recent years has been quite public in adopting neo-nazi ideology and holocaust denial.)

That to me is suspect for this reason: Trump ran on a platform of xenophobia. (And a platform of misogyny with intentions to elect officials intended on overturning Roe v. Wade and defunding women's health organizations. Another conversation, equally troubling.)

He publicly referred to illegal Mexican immigrants as rapists and drug dealers in a press conference. Not an off camera remark, a press conference. And then there's that Mexican wall thing...

He declared a ban on muslim immigration, which was initially on the table in regards to political asylum.

He furthered that agenda by suggesting revoking passports of citizens who have gone abroad to muslim countries, will shut down mosques, and in 'the hunt for ISIL' is not opposed 'checking mosques'. (If that doesn't echo any history lessons from the previous century I don't know what does.)

He's also made claims he will re-instate stop and frisk, which was not only ruled unconstitutional, was ruled so based on its systematic use of racial profiling.

Playing dumb on the David Duke issue was a calculated move pandering to his base's inherent fear of immigration. (The bitter irony of course being that 100 percent of this country are immigrant, right down to the Spanish conquerers, European settlers and founding fathers. Unless your Native American you are an immigrant.)

So, I won't go so far as saying Mr Trump is a white supremacist, but I sure see an uncanny overlapping of values. And I find it awfully strange that Duke declared it 'Treason to your heritage' not to vote Trump, and finished that statement with "I support voting for him as a strategic action. I hope he does everything we hope he will do.”

Let's not kid ourselves, hate groups like the KKK don't support ANYONE that doesn't forward their agenda, (see the above quote regarding 'strategic action'. And take note of the "WE" in his statement). They're hate groups after all, and not shy about disdain for anyone who doesn't think the way they do.

So perhaps ask yourself why Duke would call for white supremacists to vote for Trump, and refer to failing to do so as 'treason to your heritage'?


----------



## AlexRuger

Diffusor said:


> Are you delusional? If you are not making ends meet then maybe you shouldn't be in the business you are. You are saying you expect others should subsidize you? You don't get that? Where do you think the money to fund Obamacare is coming from?



Nobody ever said anything about not making ends meet. I'm doing fine. Where did you pick up that line of thought? Did you just assume I'm poor and lazy because I'm a proponent of a socialist program?

And to be clear, I was responding angrily to your suggestion because it made absolutely no sense. I made it clear that I'm a freelance composer, and you suggested that I go work for a company. What company? Name one company that would hire me to write music as a full-time employee.

(yes, I'm aware that some game companies do this, but that's a rapidly shrinking paradigm)

This world is different than, say, tech, where going freelance can absolutely be more lucrative than working for a company if you're skilled and savvy enough. But composers are only freelance. There's no such thing as being employed by a company as a full-time employee when you write music for a living. 

Anyways.

The old system works fine if you're extremely rich or never get sick. God forbid you ever have to deal with a serious illness. What happens if you develop, say, MS? It won't kill you, but it's debilitating, and treating it will be a lifelong burden. Pre- or post-ACA, your insurance plan has a reason to kick you off it because you're now a liability to them. You cost money now because you're not healthy. What would you do then--just work harder? Not treat it? Healthcare costs for anything beyond minimal issues are far beyond what all but the richest of us can handle without any sort of insurance or other price reduction system, so unless you're Elon Musk, just saving up your pennies isn't a viable option--especially when your condition is life-long and may keep you from working. Healthcare costs aren't coming down anytime soon, so we need to find another way to make it affordable. Public health insurance done _right _is that way. Obamacare was a flawed step in the right direction.

Oh, and if Mr. Musk (or any other super rich, successful person) had a chronic condition under our old (or future) healthcare system whilst building their businesses, they likely wouldn't have been able to do it. Try doing...well, _anything..._when the healthcare bills are piling up and there's nothing you can do about it.

People don't choose to get sick.

For example, my friend who is a remarkable entrepreneur would have to go back to working for other companies instead of starting his own simply because he has Type 1 Diabetes and can't be without health insurance. Without it, he's either stuck in impossibly-high and ever-growing debt, dead, or both. Since the ACA, those chains have been cast off and he's been killing it, starting multiple successful ventures in only a couple of years. People like you (I'm assuming a lot here, correct me if I'm wrong) are all about picking yourselves up by your bootstraps, making it on your own, etc. But there's a baseline level of agency a person needs to even have a chance. Hurdles in life come in many forms, and you seem to be blind to most of them. Social programs that cover _necessities _are what enable the populace to pursue _quality _of life, liberty, and happiness. It's the same reason that the fire department, the police department, so on and so forth should be and should remain public. 

Contrary to your beliefs, people like me aren't going, "Waaahhh waahhh, government, please take care of me!" We're saying, "You now, me later." I.e. when you get sick, I feel you should be able to get through it without ruining your life. And when I do, I expect the same. Pursuit of happiness and all that. Who are you to deny anyone of that just because you refuse to let go of an ideology that has failed nearly everyone on the planet?

Your free-market-or-bust, everyone-take-care-of-themselves bullshit just doesn't work in real life. I'm not saying that other people should subsidize *me,* I'm saying that healthcare is a NECESSITY and that everyone needs to subsidize *each other.* Time and time again public healthcare has been shown to be the most cost-effective way of making affordable, inclusive coverage possible. The only reason the ACA isn't affordable is because, as I said, the GOP gutted the bill. Look at what was proposed, look at what we got once their obstructionism had done its damage, and it's very, very clear. I simply don't understand how anyone could possibly see it any other way. This all comes down to basic math and a willingness to do what's best for the most people possible rather than blindly sticking to ideology. 

Why oh why are so many people against something that has been a huge success in every other developed nation in the world? You can't argue that anymore than you can argue that the sky is green.


----------



## Diffusor

AlexRuger said:


> Nobody ever said anything about not making ends meet. I'm doing fine. Where did you pick up that line of thought? Did you just assume I'm poor and lazy because I'm a proponent of a socialist program?
> 
> And to be clear, I was responding angrily to your suggestion because it made absolutely no sense. I made it clear that I'm a freelance composer, and you suggested that I go work for a company. What company? Name one company that would hire me to write music as a full-time employee.
> 
> (yes, I'm aware that some game companies do this, but that's a rapidly shrinking paradigm)
> 
> This world is different than, say, tech, where going freelance can absolutely be more lucrative than working for a company if you're skilled and savvy enough. But composers are only freelance. There's no such thing as being employed by a company as a full-time employee when you write music for a living.
> 
> Anyways.
> 
> The old system works fine if you're extremely rich or never get sick. God forbid you ever have to deal with a serious illness. What happens if you develop, say, MS? It won't kill you, but it's debilitating, and treating it will be a lifelong burden. Pre- or post-ACA, your insurance plan has a reason to kick you off it because you're now a liability to them. You cost money now because you're not healthy. What would you do then--just work harder? Not treat it? Healthcare costs for anything beyond minimal issues are far beyond what all but the richest of us can handle without any sort of insurance or other price reduction system, so unless you're Elon Musk, just saving up your pennies isn't a viable option--especially when your condition is life-long and may keep you from working. Healthcare costs aren't coming down anytime soon, so we need to find another way to make it affordable. Public health insurance done _right _is that way. Obamacare was a flawed step in the right direction.
> 
> Oh, and if Mr. Musk (or any other super rich, successful person) had a chronic condition under our old (or future) healthcare system whilst building their businesses, they likely wouldn't have been able to do it. Try doing...well, _anything..._when the healthcare bills are piling up and there's nothing you can do about it.
> 
> People don't choose to get sick.
> 
> For example, my friend who is a remarkable entrepreneur would have to go back to working for other companies instead of starting his own simply because he has Type 1 Diabetes and can't be without health insurance. Without it, he's either stuck in impossibly-high and ever-growing debt, dead, or both. Since the ACA, those chains have been cast off and he's been killing it, starting multiple successful ventures in only a couple of years. People like you (I'm assuming a lot here, correct me if I'm wrong) are all about picking yourselves up by your bootstraps, making it on your own, etc. But there's a baseline level of agency a person needs to even have a chance. Hurdles in life come in many forms, and you seem to be blind to most of them. Social programs that cover _necessities _are what enable the populace to pursue _quality _of life, liberty, and happiness. It's the same reason that the fire department, the police department, so on and so forth should be and should remain public.
> 
> Contrary to your beliefs, people like me aren't going, "Waaahhh waahhh, government, please take care of me!" We're saying, "You now, me later." I.e. when you get sick, I feel you should be able to get through it without ruining your life. And when I do, I expect the same. Pursuit of happiness and all that. Who are you to deny anyone of that just because you refuse to let go of an ideology that has failed nearly everyone on the planet?
> 
> Your free-market-or-bust, everyone-take-care-of-themselves bullshit just doesn't work in real life. I'm not saying that other people should subsidize *me,* I'm saying that healthcare is a NECESSITY and that everyone needs to subsidize *each other.* Time and time again public healthcare has been shown to be the most cost-effective way of making affordable, inclusive coverage possible. The only reason the ACA isn't affordable is because, as I said, the GOP gutted the bill. Look at what was proposed, look at what we got once their obstructionism had done its damage, and it's very, very clear. I simply don't understand how anyone could possibly see it any other way. This all comes down to basic math and a willingness to do what's best for the most people possible rather than blindly sticking to ideology.
> 
> Why oh why are so many people against something that has been a huge success in every other developed nation in the world? You can't argue that anymore than you can argue that the sky is green.




thanks for elaborating. For the record and never said you were poor or lazy. So you think Obamacare is the answer then? Do you see all the crazy premium hikes? Why is that happening?


----------



## AlexRuger

Diffusor said:


> thanks for elaborating. For the record and never said you were poor or lazy. So you think Obamacare is the answer then? Do you see all the crazy premium hikes? Why is that happening?



Thank you.

Like I said, Obamacare was a flawed step in the right direction. My premium hikes are unacceptable to me, and I know many others feel the same way. But repealing it is _not _the answer, and that's precisely what Trump is going to do, and there's little or nothing we can do to stop it.

As far as I understand it, the hikes are due to the fact that Obamacare was only a half measure towards public healthcare. Instead of a single payer system, private insurance companies are still acting as middle-men. Furthermore, many states are refusing to participate and therefore getting fined. I don't know the whole story--to be honest I don't know if anyone does, seeing how complicated it is--but I believe the simple answer is that the fines are being passed on to the consumers. Plus, the ever-rising cost of healthcare. Private companies have zero incentive to swallow those prices increases when their customers have _no choice _but to buy their product, so, again, these costs are passed on to the consumers.

If the private insurance companies weren't sitting in the middle, costs would have been _much _lower, and the "Affordable" part would have been included in the Affordable Care Act. Instead, the GOP gutted the single most important part of the bill, the public option, guaranteeing higher premiums, no doubt so that they could say, "See? It's so unaffordable! Repeal it now!" 

And to be perfectly clear, Obama took an already moderate plan to use as a playbook, Mitt Romney's Massachusetts health plan. The GOP still gutted it and filibustered for _days _until they got their way. It was an absolutely shameful way to act.

And here we are.

I was a big Bernie supporter but I totally disagreed that we should do away with the ACA, because it took nearly a hundred years to get even a _bad _version of public healthcare on the table. Doing away with it and starting over would take...ugh, I don't even want to think about it. Obamacare needs to be refined and fixed--no doubt a massively long and difficult fight, potentially even decades long--but it's still the best step in the right direction this country has ever had. After this long with a private health insurance system _this _engrained, all our options suck. Some just suck less than others.

When Trump repeals the ACA, _millions_ of people will lose insurance, myself included, and any of those with chronic conditions likely won't be able to get insurance again. Meaning that they will have no choice but to not work (less productively and GDP growth) or work well under their pay potential (same deal), or work for someone else to have a chance at good insurance rather than starting their own business (leading to less industrial leadership and innovation in America), and use the emergency room more than they should (straining the healthcare system and raising costs even higher--most of which will be passed on to the consumer in the form of even higher premiums).

It's going to be a fucking disaster.

One thing I hate about political discourse in this country is that people act like these things are simple. They're anything but. The economy, healthcare, climate science, you name it. All hopelessly complicated. There are leading experts who devote their lives to understanding a part of these hopelessly complicated systems that recommend certain things, and their peers review their recommendations. And given enough time and thought and peer review and research, these recommendations become viewed as the best way forward, as far as anyone can possibly guess or understand. And yet the GOP has been on the wrong side of each of these for an entire generation. They promote trickle down economics (an abject failure according to even the more conservative economists out there), privatized insurance, climate change denial. And these people just seized the majority power in every branch of the US government.


----------



## erica-grace

AlexRuger said:


> _millions_ of people will lose insurance, myself included,


How are you going to lose your insurance? Earlier, you made mention of your premiums, which tells me you are like me, and you pay for your health coverage. I am not going to lose my coverage if the ACA goes away, as I will still be able to buy insurance. As will you. And it will probably be more affordable than it is now. So, how will you lose your coverage?



AlexRuger said:


> It's going to be a fucking disaster.


If you look to the stock markets as any indication, the exact opposite will be true.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Hannes, I have bad news for you: you do have a dog in this as a citizen of the world. For one, Germany is a member of NATO, and Txxxx is putting that in jeopardy. He may well destabilize the world order - and not just in Europe but in Asia as well.

Second, that ideology chart has absolutely nothing to do with anything that's going on. For whatever reasons - and right now I couldn't care less what they are - lots of people have the supreme arrogance to believe that because they're angry, it's perfectly fine to vote for what could easily be the destruction of our 240-year-old democracy. I could go on analyzing what's behind this - it's not one thing - but right now I'm too upset.

This is the biggest crisis our country has faced since the Civil War.

Schools are having to bring in counselors for children who are having trouble dealing with this. My 13-year-old nephew is in tears because a café au lait friend of his - a 13-year-old girl - is scared to death. I have a biracial nephew the same age, and he doesn't understand what's going on. At his older sister's school, my niece's, the principal held a school meeting to try and ease the kids' fear. A Moslem family that lives down the street from them is absolutely terrified.

I've had a lump in my throat for two days. It's heartbreaking and absolutely hideous... just beyond awful.

I should add that my parents have seen this before, and that's also breaking my heart. It feels like the end of the world.

The only hope is that the Democrats can hold off the worst of the destruction for two years and we have a wave election. But I'm not optimistic.


----------



## kavinsky

Nick Batzdorf said:


> I've had a lump in my throat for two days. It's heartbreaking and absolutely hideous... just beyond awful.
> 
> I should add that my parents have seen this before, and that's also breaking my heart. It feels like the end of the world.



The rest of the world actually feels relieved that you elected your first openly anti-war president since I don't even remember when. 
Surely he's a lunatic, but I honestly think that in this circumstances it's really what you deserve.
I think it was time for some changes.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick, while I am glad that the GOP kept the congress, I am not happy that we have a president like Trump. He is an awful man and I do not trust a word out of his mouth.
You and I have had our disagreements, but I do not like to see you in such sadness. I think there is room for a little hope for you.
Simply, I do not expect him to do any of those things that you mention that your friends and family are afraid of - the outrageous things he promised the alt right, or the things he told conservatives, such as defunding Planned Parenthood. As you know, I have from the beginning suspected that he is not really a conservative. For 30 years, he was a NY Liberal who was friends with and donated to the Clintons, and espoused liberal philosophy such as prochoice and appreciation of Planned Parenthood. He only changed to conservative views for this election. He is a fraud, a phony.
He is not a good president for true conservatives and may in fact be much better for liberals than the media has led you to believe.


----------



## woodsdenis

kavinsky said:


> The rest of the world actually feels relieved that you elected your first openly anti-war president since I don't even remember when.
> Surely he's a lunatic, but I honestly think that in this circumstances it's really what you deserve.
> I think it was time for some changes.


Don't know where you got that from, the rest of the world is not relieved. Trade wars, destabilising NATO, alt right Bretbart policies etc. He wants Steve Bannon as Chief of Staff ffs. Trump is an idiot and a fool but there are some seriously dangerous people around him, reminds me of the last republican admin only far worse.


----------



## Hannes_F

Nick Batzdorf said:


> For whatever reasons [...] lots of people have the supreme arrogance to believe that because they're angry, it's perfectly fine to vote for what could easily be the destruction of our 240-year-old democracy. I could go on analyzing what's behind this - it's not one thing - but right now I'm too upset.



Nick, if you have time and calm at some point I would appreciate a level headed analysis from you (sincerely).

I think (hope) the more or less open analogy with ~1932 that many people seem to see is not entirely correct and therefore it is not rational to draw strict conclusions from one to the other. One of the major reasons is that Hitler and his gang (sadly) had a solid theory based on (very distorted and defective) science (socio-darwinistic race theory) behind all their doings. The theory itself was erroneous and is scientifically refuted by now but at that time it had a huge intellectual impact since it could refer to the science of the day and was more or less consistent in itself. I don't see anything of this at Mr. Trump. And - please educate me since I obviously did not watch things as closely and may have missed much - I tried to find it but do not even see genuine racism in Mr. Trump himself (strictly speaking of himself, not about several of his supporters). Patriotism and US-supremacism (is that a word?) yes, racism no.

As a consequence I currently think there is some analogy between Trump and Hitler but it is not a deep analogy. We have the phenomenon of "being a populist" in both cases if this means being popular beyond sober reasons and promising much. The other analogy is that both are (were) rooted in socio-darwinistic "the winner takes it all" ideology at some point. The third analogy is clustering supporters by blaming specific "others" (China, illegal immigrants) for economical problems (but which politician is free from that). But I don't think (at least I hope so) that the analogy goes far beyond that.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Oh for God sake Nick (and thanks for saying '_couldn't_ care less' - awesome), I was in a supermarket the other day and talking with Agatha. Agatha is Polish and works there. She kind of asked about what happens next when we come out of the EU. I said Agatha you've been here for 12 years. Nothing is going to happen. Relax. What might happen, is that they put a limit on immigrant numbers at a later date. And that's it.

The problem that has occurred via Brexit votes and USA elections etc etc, is that for some reason only known to them, Europeans seem to have this idea that the British can't stand them. Nothing could be further from the truth. What the British now prefer, is there own rules and regs and non political interferences and meddling. The original vote in 1975 was for joining the Common Market and a sort of inter-continental trade deal made simpler. It became clear that this had been turned into a political deal at a later date, and that is unacceptable.


----------



## erica-grace

Nick Batzdorf said:


> For one, Germany is a member of NATO, and *Trump* is putting that in jeopardy.



[Edited by moderator]

*Trump* is putting nothing in jeopardy. What *Trump* is doing, is changing things. For better? Maybe not across the board, but he is certainly destabilizing the entire planet.

In fact, things have gotten better already. See the stock market the past two days? That was noticeably absent from your post, showing you have a clear bias.


----------



## Hannes_F

Speaking as a moderator.
OK everybody, from now on we need to stop personalized attacks in this thread too. The last days have been upstirring and that is understandable but now we please want to come back to civility.
Thank you for your attention.


----------



## pixel

What's your problem with public healthcare dear America? I'm curious how it work in USA. In Europe we have public healthcare + private healthcare. 
Once I've had private very expensive assurance and I smashed my hand really hard (thanks godness I can use my hand normally now). In private healthcare clinic they told me that reconstruction surgery will cost me around $30k. So I've had to use first aid services (public+private) because I'm not that rich! I quit this private insurance because there's no point if I have to pay for every surgery even if I've had to to pay around 30% salary for private healthcare every month. I can imagine debt of millions in serious accident. 
How it looks in USA? No serious public healthcare is the main reason why I'm not willing to move to USA even if I could get good contract.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Thanks Michael, I appreciate it and hope you're right that this isn't going to be the disaster it could be.

To the very limited extent that poor erica.grace is even worth answering, or really just to clarify for other people:

I'm not invoking Godwin's Law (bringing up Nazis). That would be hyperbole. What I mean is that this is how fascism starts, and my parents lived through its rise. They're already talking about Steve Bannon as White House Chief of Staff!

I'm talking about the similarities to how it happens every time. But these monsters aren't going to destroy our country without a fight.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

One other point: I think everyone living in Europe understands the importance of NATO.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> They're already talking about Steve Bannon as White House Chief of Staff!


Really? Andrew Breitbart would roll over in his grave; he didn't like or trust Trump one bit. He would be disgusted at how Breitbart behaved during this election cycle.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Thanks Michael, I appreciate it and hope you're right that this isn't going to be the disaster it could be.


YOu're welcome. I hope i'm right, too! Not for the sake of being right, but for the sake of the country.


----------



## jcrosby

Hannes_F said:


> Nick, if you have time and calm at some point I would appreciate a level headed analysis from you (sincerely).



With all due respect please let Nick and I know know how these excerpts from his rallies over the past year don't seem to indicate a rise in American xenophobia and racism?


----------



## Mike Fox

I guess I'll chime in here and offer my view, which I think some people might share.

I felt cheated from the beginning of this election. Actually, Ive felt cheated for as long as I can remember with presidents. Keep in mind that I'm 33, so I havent experienced as many presidents as some of you have, but the main point I want to make is that I've never felt that I've had a president who truly cares about me, and I'm part of the middle class. I've always felt that they only have their best interests in mind. The US is suffering in many ways, and It is the outcome of selfish and greedy politicians. Our national debt is an embarrassment, and reflects our inability to properly manage money. Hyperinflation is destroying the middle class, and will be the fall of this country If something isnt done about it. After following this debate, I dont feel there was a single candidate on either side that would have addressed these issues appropriately. The problem is that even If I liked a candidates idea, I had absolutely no reason to trust them. It blows my mind when I see people practically worship the likes of Trump, and Hilary. They arent the kind of people we need to run this country. We need geniuses. We need critical thinkers. We need someone who isnt going to waste time during a debate by blaming the other person for something. We need a president who cares about everyone. Where are these people? Truth is, noone in the right mind would ever run for president, especially with the amount of turmoil we are in. 

I know this isnt a positive outlook, but Trump is now the president. As much as I like and dislike the guy, I am at least willing to hope that he will make the right choices for our country. 

End rant.


----------



## Ashermusic

mikefox789 said:


> I've never felt that I've had a president who truly cares about me, and I'm part of the middle class. I've always felt that they only have their best interests in mind.



I think that most presidents, even the ones I have disagreed with, _did_ care about the about the middle class, but not _exclusive_ of their own best interests. They have of course had widely divergent views about how to benefit the middle class, the most ridiculous one being, in my opinion, "trickle down" economics.

I don't however believe, and I am open to being proven wrong and indeed hope that I am, that Trump cares about anyone but himself and his family. He will be the first president in my lifetime that I view as a total narcissist.


----------



## Mike Fox

Ashermusic said:


> I think that most presidents, even the ones I have disagreed with, _did_ care about the about the middle class, but not _exclusive_ of their own best interests.



I think that may be a better representation.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Cheesus! I thought that video was going to be really brutal. 

You Yanks have obviously never been to a Millwall game. You need to get out more.


----------



## Hannes_F

jcrosby said:


> With all due respect please let Nick and I know know how these excerpts from his rallies over the past year don't seem to indicate a rise in American xenophobia and racism?



Speaking as a private person, not as a moderator:

@jcrosby, you are talking to me or to Nick? Not sure about that.

If you are honestly interested in my thoughts after watching your video, I tried to come to some structured reflection for you:

1. I was surprised to see that people got removed from Trump rallies for inadequate statements - did not really expect this. This is better than I thought.

2. Sometimes you give energy to what you fight against. The Trump victory is a telling example for that. Now that I think about it: Without all the media outrage about his misdeeds I would perhaps only have heard his name a month before the election, not a year before. All the outrage made me watch 3 or 4 of his speeches from beginning to end and 0 from H. Clinton. So with his provocations he played on the media like on a fiddle, and they played game.

3. So, returning to your video, if media give prime coverage to a miserable individual in the 15th row of a rally who utters "n*ggah" instead of giving it the silence treatment they should perhaps reflect on what they are really doing.

4. That being said I honestly can not answer your question. I don't have detailled insight into xenophobia and racism in your country neither in your latest past nor in the presence. I would need to know whether or not such opinions had been existent some years before and how can I? Only solid statistics could answer your question (but better than those of your pollsters, hmm).

5. I was explicitly asking about Trump, and explicitly not about any supporters.

My 5c.


----------



## Baron Greuner

Election update:

It's beginning to look fairly apparent that the only person DJT will talk to, never mind meet from the British government, is Nigel Farage. That's really bad news and very predictable based on my previous observations. Not at all funny and Fox News are saying that Trump should not give Theresa May an interview.
Farage will try and damp that down, but this is what happens when you forget to keep your flapping gob shut when it comes down to a two horse race.
When you're a conservative government, who the fuck are you trying to appease by bad mouthing a possible future President.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Thanks Michael, I appreciate it and hope you're right that this isn't going to be the disaster it could be.


For me, the worst part of Trump being elected isn't Trump himself (since I think he's a fraud). It's that the Alt Right will now feel emboldened and empowered. And they are so easily stirred into hate by Trump's type of speeches. It is very concerning.


----------



## Vischebaste

erica-grace said:


> [Edited by moderator]
> In fact, things have gotten better already. See the stock market the past two days? That was noticeably absent from your post, showing you have a clear bias.



Great tip! In future, when I want to know if the world is getting better or worse on any particular day, I'll just have a quick look at the Dow Jones to see which direction it's heading.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

Mike:



> The US is suffering in many ways, and It is the outcome of selfish and greedy politicians. Our national debt is an embarrassment, and reflects our inability to properly manage money. Hyperinflation is destroying the middle class, and will be the fall of this country If something isnt done about



The national debt is meaningless to our lives other than that they'd be better if it were *higher*, not lower!

What's important is the cost of servicing the debt, not the very high abstract number without context. It's at a level that can be sustained indefinitely. We should be running much higher deficits until we reach full employment - and despite the unemployment rate, there are other measures showing we're not there yet.

Right now the problem is *lack* of inflation! That's why the Fed has been trying so hard to reflate the economy by keeping the interest rates low. It's helped, but it's not strong enough medicine, because companies don't want to take on the principal without enough customers, never mind the interest.

We should be investing like crazy in infrastructure, our next energy economy, healthcare, education, and other things - especially while interest rates are so low. Eventually you get to a point where public investment takes away from private investment (the economist's term is "crowding out"), but we're nowhere near that.

Of course there's waste in government, but that's with every human endeavor. The real waste is that our economy is still $2 trillion a year below where it was projected to be before the crash!

And what I'm saying is still the answer, even with the current crisis.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

More lecture.

1. "Hyperinflation" is a term that means the country's currency has totally lost all credibility. It means the economy has collapsed, and it's been pretty rare in history. People carrying around bills in a wheelbarrow to buy sundries during the Weimar Republic is an example.

That is not the situation here, in fact it's exactly the opposite: investors around the world are willing to lend us money at very low rates because the dollar is so safe!

2. Picture the virtuous circle (which you can start at any point):

||: -> spending -> profits to business selling the product/services being bought -> businesses invest in expansion ->more hiring -> wages -> :||

The circle is jammed just before business investment, leading to the savings glut (capital with nowhere to go) Ben Bernanke talked about a few years ago before he became Fed Chairman.

So big public investment would unblock the circle. Of course, libertarians and Republicans who don't want the government to have a larger role in our economy hate the idea. But people who aren't ideologues should be able to understand why it's necessary, and why cutting public spending ("austerity") has the opposite of the desired effect.


----------



## Nick Batzdorf

jcrosby said:


> With all due respect please let Nick and I know know how these excerpts from his rallies over the past year don't seem to indicate a rise in American xenophobia and racism?




Did you happen to see John Legend on Bill Maher last night?

He expressed what I've been saying much better, that minorities can't get past the fact that millions of people voted for such a racist - that they're scared to death.

Unfortunately I can't find a transcription; all I can find is people reacting to his disagreement with David Axelrod, which wasn't really a disagreement.


----------



## NoamL

People - it's pointless to argue that with those who still believe Donald Trump is not going to do damage to this country by his inexperience, his objectively bad policy ideas, and his empowerment of hate and bigotry, whether it is because they support Trump like @Baron Greuner, or they are in denial about his character like @erica-grace and @Karl Feuerstake, or because they are in the bargaining "maybe it won't turn out so bad" stage of grief like @Guy Bacos and @Desire Inspires and @Hannes_F .

Even if we manage to persuade people like Erica to be anti-Trump, or convince people like Guy to be more alarmed, what difference does it make?

The Republican agenda is going to steamroll this country regardless of whatever symbolic actions Democrats and progressives take. That's a fact.

And that agenda isn't going to hurt liberals. It's going to hurt our entire citizenry, our entire economy, our entire climate, and our entire standing in the world.

The people who decided to vote as a way of casting a spiteful handful of monkey-poo at part of their country, are going to find themselves spattered worse than anybody else.

All of the people who voted for Trump as a way of spiting "the condescending coastal elite" "the Washington establishment" "overreaching liberals" "a climate of political correctness" "the lying media" (just say Jews, guys, it's faster) are going to be kicking themselves in the ass in 2 years. Why should I wear out MY shoe now?


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## Baron Greuner

Cheesus ! NoamL is a regular Dr Freud!

Way to go Noam. Just what the fuck you're talking about I have no idea, but it sure is an entertainment.


----------



## NoamL

Baron Greuner said:


> Just what the fuck you're talking about I have no idea,



Good to know - I'll add it to the list.


----------



## Hannes_F

NoamL said:


> are in the bargaining "maybe it won't turn out so bad" stage of grief like [...] @Hannes_F[/USER].


Speaking as a private member:

For the records - I am not predicting anything for the future. That is way beyond my capacities.

To be honest it is a bit disappointing to see somebody putting words in other's mouths whom I had thought to possess a very sharp intellect. Perhaps it is because of the overall disappointment. But still I ask to stop doing that, at least for my person.

Also I generally see the polarisation going on even in this forum but that is not what will help because it is not based on reality. An 'anybody-who-is-not-for-us-is-against-us'-scenario is never a realistic perspective.

I have been watching this thread from the beginning and have learned a lot. I listen to argements from all sides, and sometimes I ask for quotes and references in order to back something up.

I am still interested in Nick's in depth analysis of how the result came about, if he may write something, and in an unrefutable proof of Trump's racism if anybody can give it. In case that comes, I will listen.


----------



## Hannes_F

If I may quote myself:


Hannes_F said:


> 2. Sometimes you give energy to what you fight against. The Trump victory is a telling example for that. Now that I think about it: Without all the media outrage about his misdeeds I would perhaps only have heard his name a month before the election, not a year before. All the outrage made me watch 3 or 4 of his speeches from beginning to end and 0 from H. Clinton. So with his provocations he played on the media like on a fiddle, and they played game.


I just found this number: Paul Farhi from Washington Post wrote at September 21th that Trump got 822 minutes of Saturday Night coverage compared to Clinton with 386 minutes in the same time span. However he concluded that this would not matter ('So what?') since it was not 'positive coverage'. History turned out differently.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/trump-gets-way-more-tv-news-time-than-clinton-so-what/2016/09/21/719d1bac-7ea9-11e6-8d0c-fb6c00c90481_story.html

As a media professional Trump knows that bad news is good news, and no news are bad news. This is his playing field. As I said: with attention sometimes you give energy to what you want to fight against.


----------



## Ashermusic

Hannes_F said:


> Also I generally see the polarisation going on even in this forum but that is not what will help because it is not based on reality. An 'anybody-who-is-not-for-us-is-against-us'-scenario is never a realistic perspective.




Until it is. I will spare you the listing of the number of historical examples where it is, because I know you to be an educated person. 

Nick and I have had lots of disagreements where I chastised him for not being respectful of opposing views. But this election _was_ different.

Obama vs McCain? Ideological differences between two qualified candidates, reasons for respectful debate. Obama vs Romney? Ideological differences between two qualified candidates, reasons for respectful debate. Clinton vs Trump? Totally different because it appealed to the worst sides of human nature and Trump is the first, the VERY FIRST, to be pronounced "unqualified" by lots of respected members of his OWN PARTY. No reasons for respectful debate.


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## Hannes_F

Ashermusic said:


> Clinton vs Trump? Totally different because it appealed to the worst sides of human nature and Trump is the first, the VERY FIRST, to be pronounced "unqualified" by lots of respected members of his OWN PARTY.



Jay, I fully agree and am even going so far to say that this election has uncovered a dear need for further development of the democratic system at it is manifest by now. What people want to have (and I think this is universal) is to have the choice between excellent individuals that have an authentic capacity for solving problems (not: earning the most with problems). The best of the best on a universal-humanistic scale. I have watched enough brilliant interviews of US thinkers to know that there is a huge potential especially in your country and by the democratic process you want to have the choice between the best that the nation can bring about. But nobody of them had a chance to become your president in this election.

I think what we need would be more research about how the best, sharpest, most responsible, most caring individuals could be rinsed upwards in the general political process. Not those that can speak most fluently, not those that can play the power coalition game best, and not necessarily those that are most intelligent in conventional categories. Perhaps - as a side thought - we even need a new mathamatical theory about that. If you can use mathematical methods for gerrymandering, why not instead use it for a better theory of democracy. As it stands now the selection process of candidates sadly is way too much linked to the initial endowement with money, network power, rhetorical expertise and cunning intelligence.


----------



## AlexRuger

Baron Greuner said:


> Cheesus ! NoamL is a regular Dr Freud!
> 
> Way to go Noam. Just what the fuck you're talking about I have no idea, but it sure is an entertainment.



...what precisely did you not understand in his post? I'm not being flippant, I'm serious. Noam seems to me to be a pretty good communicator and explains himself clearly. Hard to deny that even if you don't agree with him.

Again, not being flippant or mean-spirited. I just genuinely don't get what it is you don't understand in his post.


----------



## AlexRuger

Ashermusic said:


> Obama vs McCain? Ideological differences between two qualified candidates, reasons for respectful debate. Obama vs Romney? Ideological differences between two qualified candidates, reasons for respectful debate. Clinton vs Trump? Totally different because it appealed to the worst sides of human nature and Trump is the first, the VERY FIRST, to be pronounced "unqualified" by lots of respected members of his OWN PARTY. No reasons for respectful debate.



Totally agree, Jay. If it were McCain or Romney, I'd still fight just as hard against them if they tried to repeal Obamacare, back out of the Paris deal, etc. That's standard Republicanism.

I'd fight them, but I wouldn't doubt their ability to have some sort of constructive dialogue with world leaders, or to guide us through conflict (say what you will about how GWB handled 9/11--I think there's a _lot _to say--but our country is still here. I doubt the same could be said if Trump had been in office then instead).

But this is more than all that. Trump has no business sitting in the highest office of the land. He is supremely unqualified no matter how you slice it. He's petty and thin-skinned. I don't trust him within a million miles of the nuclear codes.

The fact that the KKK has announced they'll be having a victory parade in Alabama should tell you all you need to know. This guy empowers the absolute scummiest of the scum. No one wins here.


----------



## NoamL

Hannes_F said:


> To be honest it is a bit disappointing to see somebody putting words in other's mouths whom I had thought to possess a very sharp intellect. Perhaps it is because of the overall disappointment. But still I ask to stop doing that, at least for my person.



Fair enough Hannes. Apologies if I misread your post or lumped you in with a larger trend.

I do see a trend, not just on this forum but across the Internet, of people changing their minds on antiTrumpism because 47% of America voted for him. Sort of a "This many people can't be that horribly wrong, can they?" attitude.

Well to borrow some words from a hopeful Black guy in 2008: "Yes, they can."

Trump does not become more moderate because people voted for him. He does not become more experienced because people voted for him. He does not become more competent because people voted for him. He does not become more sober, thoughtful, consistent or dependable because people voted for him. His policies do not become correct because people voted for them. His stated goals and promises do not become undone because people voted for them.


----------



## Hannes_F

NoamL said:


> Fair enough Hannes. Apologies if I misread your post or lumped you in with a larger trend.
> I do see a trend, not just on this forum but across the Internet, of people changing their minds on antiTrumpism because 47% of America voted for him. Sort of a "This many people can't be that horribly wrong, can they?" attitude.
> [...]
> Trump does not become more moderate because people voted for him. He does not become more experienced because people voted for him. He does not become more competent because people voted for him. He does not become more sober and steady because people voted for him.



I fully agree. Masses can be horribly wrong. That is one part why I think the democratic process in itself is not fully developed yet and we need to refine it based on our experiences. This election is the proof.


----------



## Ashermusic

Hannes_F said:


> Jay, I fully agree and am even going so far to say that this election has uncovered a dear need for further development of the democratic system at it is manifest by now. What people want to have (and I think this is universal) is to have the choice between excellent individuals that have an authentic capacity for solving problems (not: earning the most with problems). The best of the best on a universal-humanistic scale. I have watched enough brilliant interviews of US thinkers to know that there is a huge potential especially in your country and by the democratic process you want to have the choice between the best that the nation can bring about. But nobody of them had a chance to become your president in this election.
> 
> I think what we need would be more research about how the best, sharpest, most responsible, most caring individuals could be rinsed upwards in the general political process. Not those that can speak most fluently, not those that can play the power coalition game best, and not necessarily those that are most intelligent in conventional categories. Perhaps - as a side thought - we even need a new mathamatical theory about that. If you can use mathematical methods for gerrymandering, why not instead use it for a better theory of democracy. As it stands now the selection process of candidates sadly is way too much linked to the initial endowement with money, network power, rhetorical expertise and cunning intelligence.




Yep., getting the money out of it with public campaign financing and ending Gerrymandering is key. Until then, even if the best intended, most qualified people enter the system, we will have more of the same.


----------



## NoamL

BTW if you are interested in the data, I do have some thoughts. But we have to wait for a couple more weeks for the total 2016 voter data. There are millions of uncounted votes left in California and Oregon, because they were sent in by mail. They actually have probably not got around to counting my ballot yet - I sent it in on Election Day.

In the meantime, this map goes a long way to explaining the election results, in my view anyway.







Interested to see if anyone can guess what this is a map of....


----------



## Hannes_F

@NoamL - First guess: Where Clinton lost absolute vote counts compared to Obama.


----------



## Sebastianmu

Hannes_F said:


> I think what we need would be more research about how the best, sharpest, most responsible, most caring individuals could be rinsed upwards in the general political process. Not those that can speak most fluently, not those that can play the power coalition game best, and not necessarily those that are most intelligent in conventional categories. Perhaps - as a side thought - we even need a new mathamatical theory about that. If you can use mathematical methods for gerrymandering, why not instead use it for a better theory of democracy. As it stands now the selection process of candidates sadly is way too much linked to the initial endowement with money, network power, rhetorical expertise and cunning intelligence.


As much as I agree with the general sentiment of this post, I'm afraid, it is unfortunately a problem too deeply rooted to be easily fixed. I sadly conjecture, average people would not appreciate it all to much to be confronted with politicians that are vastly superior intellectually, rhetorically or in regard to any other relevant measure one might think of. They would _not _vote for them precisely _because _of this superiority. Instead, they would ridicule it as some lofty out-of-touchness or "elitism". If you want the brightest minds to have a chance in politics, I think you would need an populace significantly better educated (on all levels), and with a more genuine respect for intellectual achievement, than the ones that most countries are stuck with.


----------



## erica-grace

Nick Batzdorf said:


> He expressed what I've been saying much better, that minorities can't get past the fact that millions of people voted for such a racist



Yeah - I dont see any evidence that Trump is a racist.

I do see evidence that Hil is a liar, however.


----------



## erica-grace

NoamL said:


> Interested to see if anyone can guess what this is a map of....



The USA.




Looks like a map of all of the precincts. Red is usually used to denote Republican, but that can't be all of the precincts that Trump won. So yeah, I'd be curious to know what it is.


----------



## jcrosby

erica-grace said:


> Yeah - I dont see any evidence that Trump is a racist.
> 
> I do see evidence that Hil is a liar, however.



And no evidence of Trump being a liar?
The first presidential candidate who refused to release tax records?
A man who claimed he has no involvement with Russia despite Russian diplomats publicly stating on the first day of his election they were in contact with members of his staff during the campaign process?
(Let alone a man who publicly called for russian hacking of DNC emails. Strangely, somehow this happened. And oddly coincidental....)

I find this a genuinely fascinating perspective.


----------



## erica-grace

jcrosby said:


> And no evidence of Trump being a liar?



Do you recall me ever saying Trump is not a liar? I never said that. Just because I say Clinton is a liar, you automatically assume that I think Trump is not? Why? Are we really at the point where if someone says something negative about one candidate, they must put forth an equally negative fact about the other? Can't someone point out a negative fact about one candidate without people thinking that the person is in love with the other?

I have no love affair with Trump. I have made it very clear earlier that Trump has his own laundry list of issues and inflammatory remarks that should be walked back, and that he should not have said to begin with.

The putting of words in people's mouths - THAT is a perspective which I find fascinating.


----------



## erica-grace

jcrosby said:


> The first presidential candidate who refused to provide tax records?



You really need to get your facts straight before you speak. 

http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/web/presidentialtaxreturns


----------



## jcrosby

erica-grace said:


> Do you recall me ever saying Trump is not a liar? I never said that. Just because I say Clinton is a liar, you automatically assume that I think Trump is not? Why? Are we really at the point where if someone says something negative about one candidate, they must put forth an equally negative fact about the other? Can't someone point out a negative fact about one candidate without people thinking that the prson is in love with the other?
> 
> I have no love affair with Trump. I have made it very clear earlier that Trump has his own laundry list of issues and inflammatory remarks that should be walked back.
> 
> The putting of words in people's mouths - THAT is a perspective which I find fascinating.



Fair enough. I personally would have chosen the words that both candidates lie.


----------



## Hannes_F

jcrosby said:


> And no evidence of Trump being a liar?


According to this document Trump made 40 false claims in one day:
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...p-said-40-false-things-on-final-saturday.html
Of course he is a liar. Did anybody say the opposite?


----------



## erica-grace

Hannes_F said:


> According to this document Trump made 40 false claims in one day:
> https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...p-said-40-false-things-on-final-saturday.html
> Of course he is a liar. Did anybody say the opposite?



Whoever says Trump is not a liar needs to look at the facts. ALL politicians lie, and ALL candidates lie.


----------



## erica-grace

jcrosby said:


> Fair enough. I personally would have chosen the words that both candidates lie.



I personally think that is unnecessary.


----------



## jcrosby

From how the response was framed that is how it read to me. As noted, that was a misunderstanding on my part.
I personally would have chosen my words differently but that's me and I did indeed misjudge.


----------



## Michael K. Bain

erica-grace said:


> Whoever says Trump is not a liar needs to look at the facts. ALL politicians lie, and ALL candidates lie.


Not all politicians lie or flip flop on issues as much as Trump.


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## JonFairhurst

So erica-grace, has Trump taken any strong actions against the racist acts committed in his name? The KKK will hold a victory parade celebrating Trump's win. Has he spoken out against it?

Debating whether a person is racist or not is a fool's errand. We can't see into others' hearts; it's hard enough to see into our own. And virtually nobody admits to being a racist. Heck, the guy who owns the Nashville confederate flag display with a huge statue of the first grand wizard of the KKK claims he's not a racist. Let him have his delusion. It's not like we can prove how he feels deep down inside or that there is some measurable threshold.

But flying a bunch of confederate flags that encircle an idol of the KKK is clearly a racist act. That's not debatable.

Trump has called Rosie O'Donnell a “loser,” a “fat pig”, “a mental midget", a "low-life”, a “degenerate” and a “slob”. Please show me examples where Trump used similar language about white supremacists, the KKK, or those who have been committing racist acts as of late.

Given Trump's leadership role, his silence in opposing racism is a racist act. His silence speaks volumes.


----------



## Red

Trump is not a racist. Funny how an Asian has to point it out to an Anglo-Saxon. I'm assuming from the user id. Go listen to the acceptance speech.

He's definitely a bit misogynistic tho.

Or maybe like a politician, he said things to get votes? But that can't be right?

40 years a Manhattan democrat. But nah. He's now a racist.


----------



## Baron Greuner

They keep showing the Trump family all together here on British television.

Every time I see them like that, I think they're about to break into something from The Sound of Music.

Donald von Trump!


----------



## Baron Greuner

AlexRuger said:


> ...what precisely did you not understand in his post?



What precisely do you not understand about Trump being President for the next 4 years?


----------



## woodsdenis

Has everyone forgotten the birther movement ? Text book racism spearheaded for years by Drumpf.


----------



## erica-grace

JonFairhurst said:


> So erica-grace, has Trump taken any strong actions against the racist acts committed in his name? The KKK will hold a victory parade celebrating Trump's win. Has he spoken out against it?



So, now we are at the point that someone's refusal to condemn racism or a racist organization, makes that person a racist? This thread got silly long ago, now it's just getting pathetic.


----------



## JonFairhurst

Please re-read my post. 

Claiming that somebody is a racist is as silly as claiming that somebody is not. You can't read their minds. Instead, one has to look at actions and inactions. 

Anyway, I'm glad that you acknowledged that Trump has "refused to condemn racism and racist organizations", as you rightly put it.

Now I put this question directly to you, do you condemn the KKK and white supremacist groups, and to what degree? Feel free to use strong language like "abhorrent" or "despicable". Or use soft language that normalizes. Them. Your choice. Please express your true feelings about such groups.


----------



## Guy Bacos

When I hear on the news comments of the average person who voted for Trump, it's very easy to understand the logic, on one side, Hillary had the entire corruption shit on her shoulders, but mostly ridiculous is to see how gullible people believe all the fairy tale promises Trump made: "Trump is going to get the economy rolling again! Trump is going to create jobs like never before!! Trump is going to get me a decent health plan, everything will be ok! Trump is going to kill ISIS because he can utter the words "Islamic terrorists" and Temporarily ban Muslims from entering the United States! Trump will lower taxes! Trump is going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it! Trump is etc... If you believe Trump when making these promises, among others, of course you will vote for him. Hillary is the evil one and Trump will make America great again. 
*
It's a no brainer!!!*

Well, if Trump is able to accomplish most of these promises (and for the better), he will go down as America's greatest president. 

God, can't wait to see this!


----------



## erica-grace

JonFairhurst said:


> Now I put this question directly to you, do you condemn the KKK and white supremacist groups, and to what degree? Feel free to use strong language like "abhorrent" or "despicable". Or use soft language that normalizes. Them. Your choice. Please express your true feelings about such groups.



So wait - you are coming after me now???

Of course I condemn the KKK, and any other racist orginiations.

But I do not condemn Trump, as I do not see any evidence he is a racist, nor do I condemn him because he refuses to codemn the KKK and white supremacist groups.


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## Michael K. Bain

Guy Bacos said:


> When I hear on the news comments of the average person who voted for Trump, it's very easy to understand the logic, on one side, Hillary had the entire corruption shit on her shoulders, but mostly ridiculous is to see how gullible people believe all the fairy tale promises Trump made: "Trump is going to get the economy rolling again! Trump is going to create jobs like never before!! Trump is going to get me a decent health plan, everything will be ok! Trump is going to kill ISIS because he can utter the words "Islamic terrorists" and Temporarily ban Muslims from entering the United States! Trump will lower taxes! Trump is going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it! Trump is etc... If you believe Trump when making these promises, among others, of course you will vote for him. Hillary is the evil one and Trump will make America great again.
> *
> It's a no brainer!!!*
> 
> Well, if Trump is able to accomplish most of these promises (and for the better), he will go down as America's greatest president.
> 
> God, can't wait to see this!


Guy, most conservatives do no believe him. Most voted for him for one reason and one reason only. To stop Hillary.


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## Michael K. Bain

erica-grace said:


> So wait - you are coming after me now???


Of course. There's gotta be an underlying reason that you voted for or support Trump. It can't be because Hillary is a corrupt witch who can't be trusted to keep classified emails - you know - "classified". No, you've got to be a racist bigot. 

And news flash, that's also why you were against Obama these last 8 years. Got to be, no other reason is even possible.

And to top it all off, you're probably also uneducated and not very bright - you know, no college degree. But Erica sure is a weird name for a 45 year old white male.


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## Guy Bacos

Michael, that's not quite true, it's a combination of both, I'm seeing this from comments from people on the streets, and a lot of the Trump supporters in general, and they firmly believe in what Trump says, and yes, *a lot* voted for Trump because they hate Hillary and the corrupt system she stands for, but it's still a combination of both, not one reason only, at least that's my opinion. It's always like that, the new kid on the block will be the saviour, same story for every president running for office. But in this case it was a guru who had the crowd right in the palm of his hand, do you think "low energy" Jeb Bush, Ben Carson or Chris Christie could of done the same? I doubt it. Trump literally gave a show, along with unrealistic promises, and his "Let's make America Great Again" slogan, I don't even think Bernie Sanders could of stopped Trumpmania.


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## erica-grace

Michael K. Bain said:


> Of course. There's gotta be an underlying reason that you voted for or support Trump. It can't be because Hillary is a corrupt witch who can't be trusted to keep classified emails - you know - "classified". No, you've got to be a racist bigot.
> 
> And news flash, that's also why you were against Obama these last 8 years. Got to be, no other reason is even possible.
> 
> And to top it all off, you're probably also uneducated and not very bright - you know, no college degree. But Erica sure is a weird name for a 45 year old white male.



You are a real [Edited by moderator], you know that?


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## Michael K. Bain

erica-grace said:


> You are a real [Edited by moderator], you know that?


I was being sarcastic; I was defending you. I was saying that just because you support Trump doesn't make you a bigot. I hoped that my comment about Hillary would make the sarcastic nature clear. And the Obama comment referenced all the people who say that if someone opposes Obama, it's because he/she is racist. My comment about Erica being a weird name for a 45 year old "uneducated" male is because some liberals here seem to think that's the only people who voted for Trump.
Read my posts to see how i feel about liberals calling all Trump supporters racists and bigots. I'm a conservative who didn't vote for Trump but have on many occasions defended Trump supporters who are not part of the Alt Right.


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## JonFairhurst

erica-grace said:


> But I do not condemn Trump, as I do not see any evidence he is a racist, nor do I condemn him because he refuses to codemn the KKK and white supremacist groups.



Wow. That's a powerful state of denial.

The guy who slams Rosie O'Donnell won't slam a group that has hung people from trees due to their race. But you're cool with that.

Personally, I find the KKK and all they stand for abhorrent and inhuman. And I'm not afraid to say it.

But Trump is afraid to say it. Maybe he's just a coward.


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## NoamL

erica-grace said:


> The USA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a map of all of the precincts. Red is usually used to denote Republican, but that can't be all of the precincts that Trump won. So yeah, I'd be curious to know what it is.





Hannes_F said:


> @NoamL - First guess: Where Clinton lost absolute vote counts compared to Obama.



The map shows the counties that Clinton did not win competitive primaries/caucuses in either 2008 against Obama or 2016 against Sanders.

She assembled two very different looking coalitions of voters in her two primary campaigns but in both cases, her message fell short against an insurgent opponent in this region of the country.


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## AlexRuger

Baron Greuner said:


> What precisely do you not understand about Trump being President for the next 4 years?



Ok, I was being totally nice and trying to have a real conversation but you're clearly just an [Edited by moderator].

Edit: Sorry to any mods, especially since you've noted personal attacks. Sorry, but this sort of behavior from Baron et al is ridiculous. Constructive discussions are impossible. How people who have somehow found their way to the emotional and empathic task of making music whilst harboring such standoff values and thorny personalities is beyond me. I'm done trying to discuss politics on this board.


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## Hannes_F

Cooldown timeout for erica-grace and AlexRuger for name-calling.
As well as for Baron Greuner for general rethinking of posting behaviour.


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## Michael K. Bain

Hannes_F said:


> Cooldown timeout for erica-grace and AlexRuger for name-calling.


Hannes, may I plead Erica's case? She didn't know I was being sarcastic when I called her a "racist bigot", "uneducated" and "not very bright". To be honest, I would retaliate with a name if someone called me those names and meant it.


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## Michael K. Bain

But I realize that we should all strive to avoid name-calling, even in retaliation, so I ask you to give me a temporary cool-down as well as her, because it was my post that unintentionally provoked her into the name -calling.


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## Sebastianmu

Michael K. Bain said:


> I was defending you.


[Edited by moderator]


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## Hannes_F

New timeout for Sebastianmu. I can do that all day. (Michael, appreciated, and you can give a cooldown to yourself if you find it helpful).

Ladies and gentlemen, there is a thing called ad hominem attack. It is an argument targeted towards the personality of the participant in a discussion. The aim this is to devaluate their status, their credibility, to ridicule them. If this does not stop threads will constantly get personal, back and forth, and unavoidable off topic.

In contrast there are arguments that are not targeted at the participating persons but at the statements, the opinions, the rationale of the opponents. This is what is necessary in order to bring us all forward. Please try to stick to that.

Let this sink in a bit and I'll lift the bans soon, so that we alltogether have another chance to try it again.


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## Mike Fox

Nick Batzdorf said:


> More lecture.
> 
> 1. "Hyperinflation" is a term that means the country's currency has totally lost all credibility. It means the economy has collapsed, and it's been pretty rare in history. People carrying around bills in a wheelbarrow to buy sundries during the Weimar Republic is an example.
> 
> That is not the situation here, in fact it's exactly the opposite: investors around the world are willing to lend us money at very low rates because the dollar is so safe!
> 
> 2. Picture the virtuous circle (which you can start at any point):
> 
> ||: -> spending -> profits to business selling the product/services being bought -> businesses invest in expansion ->more hiring -> wages -> :||
> 
> The circle is jammed just before business investment, leading to the savings glut (capital with nowhere to go) Ben Bernanke talked about a few years ago before he became Fed Chairman.
> 
> So big public investment would unblock the circle. Of course, libertarians and Republicans who don't want the government to have a larger role in our economy hate the idea. But people who aren't ideologues should be able to understand why it's necessary, and why cutting public spending ("austerity") has the opposite of the desired effect.



Hyperinflation probably wasn't the best word choice then. I guess I am referring to the high cost of products (groceries, college tuition, etc.), and the seemingly stagnant pay. It just seems like it's getting harder and harder to afford things. Many people I know feel the same way, and I've seen people suffer from it. Though things are good for me now, I've financially struggled in the past, and It's not like I don't have a college degree.

Then again, there are certain things that are way cheaper now than they were before.


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## Nick Batzdorf

Right, but the answers are counterintuitive under the current conditions: increase government spending, not cut it.

That's not the whole answer to the problem of unsustainable inequality - if answers to anything even matter anymore, because the country could easily fall apart - but when everyone is working, that forces wages up.

And yes, I sympathize about struggling. Things are better right now, but we had some touch and go years.

I especially sympathize about college being expensive. My daughter just graduated, and we're faced with obscenely high student loans to pay off.


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## Mike Fox

Nick Batzdorf said:


> Right, but the answers are counterintuitive under the current conditions: increase government spending, not cut it.
> 
> That's not the whole answer to the problem of unsustainable inequality - if answers to anything even matter anymore, because the country could easily fall apart - but when everyone is working, that forces wages up.
> 
> And yes, I sympathize about struggling. *Things are better right now, but we had some touch and go years.*
> 
> I especially sympathize about college being expensive. My daughter just graduated, and we're faced with obscenely high student loans to pay off.


Do you think we're in another bubble though?

Congrats to your daughter, btw!


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## Nick Batzdorf

Thanks.

No, there's no sign of a bubble driving the entire economy like the last one (or the others before that). I read several economists' blogs every day, along with other stuff, and there's no evidence of that.

That doesn't mean there isn't, say, a housing bubble in NYC. But even if that collapsed it wouldn't bring everything down like the big one.

Now, that's not to say that we couldn't face another recession if stupid Txxxx were to appoint all hawks at the Fed and they decided to raise interest rates. But it won't be because a bubble bursts.


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## Mike Fox

Good to hear that! Where I currently live, the housing market is inclining way too fast, so It definitely makes me concerned. Supply and demand, I guess.


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## Nick Batzdorf

There's plenty to be concerned about, but not bubbles.


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## Nick Batzdorf

By the way, the infrastructure investment plan Txxxx is proposing is not good policy. It's all private - tax credits for buying shares, and it doesn't cover the public infrastructure that we need but that doesn't make an f-ing profit.

What a tragedy. I guess this is how it ends.


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## Guy Bacos

Whether you like Trump or not, you must admit this is a pretty cool video montage!


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## Michael K. Bain

Guy Bacos said:


> Whether you like Trump or not, you must admit this is a pretty cool video montage!


Yes, that video is very well done. The music is perfect for this, it just gets more and more maddening.


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## aumordia

As a longtime Trump supporter who has had to stay anonymous to protect my ability to provide for my wife and child, I cannot begin to describe the depths of my schadenfreude right now, God save me.

The greatest part is when he turns out to actually be a good president -- stays out of war, brings back jobs, sends back illegal scab labor and protects wages, etc -- and all anybody can do then is sob about it.

The navel gazing sanctimony of the ruling class (of which I am a traitorous member) will be the source of its undoing. I relish the thought. Trump is Andrew Jackson and Teddy Roosevelt all rolled into one, and I couldn't be happier.


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## G.R. Baumann

aumordia said:


> The greatest part is when he turns out to actually be a good president -- stays out of war, brings back jobs, sends back illegal scab labor and protects wages, etc -- and all anybody can do then is sob about it.



I agree with you on the sanctimonious part, but to my understanding your list belongs into the category of wishful thinking. Nothing wrong with good wishes, but I am afraid, that this administration's statements in the economic department lack credible and really actionable plans in this financialized world. The leverage game will not work, and returning the jobs already lost is literally impossible. Protectionism is no solution to the global issues we all face, not a sausage. Apart from that, I do think that Mr. Trump will not slap the establishment, his education decisions are just the first step.

Yes, it would be good if Mr. Trump turns out to be what you wish for, but nothing points into that direction, nothing. Besides, his personality traits, ruthlessness, and serious lack of even average intellect, hence his impulsiveness, are a serious concern for global security.

We shall see.... Good luck to all of us!


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## Baron Greuner

Yeah Baumann and Batzdorf are experts on the USA finances. They read blogs and watch videos on YouTube. Awesome!


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## chimuelo

The protestors and rioting folks are Trump supporters and dont even know it.
Their noise level shows other less fortunate nations our strength and Im quite sure they will draw even more attention.

The longer they keep calling for no peace the better.
The more recounts that fail just reminds millions of others the Trump supporters were right.

Im already shocked Carrier Air is apparently re considering, Ford has already changed its mind.
Trump hasnt even taken office yet and the lame duck which usually sees lots of action isnt trying to scam tax payers at all.

Trump is actually being handed a stable government and my guess is his supporters will start protesting against the GOP establishment.

We might see a new party emerge that outnumbers the unpopular democrats and republicans.

All I distrust were exposed, experts were wrong again.

Trump has nowhere to go but up.

The paranoid and dead out hypocritical pundits will lose relevence over time.
Markets are historical at levels, the Fed will have rate hikes that cause looser credit guidelines.

Zen Master says we'll see.

But watching Liberals like Pelosi and Reid disappear or the Foundation losing investors is just a start.

The economic boom from crrtainty is coming.
Like it or not change is good.


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## Baron Greuner

We get people from the London School of Economics, The Economist, think tanks, etc ect. on Sky and BBC news daily, purporting that they actually know what the fuck they're talking about. They've been doing this for at least 45 years on TV. Some of these people don't look older than 12.
None of the their predictions ever happen. Ever. Some get close, but the reason for that, is if you continue to say the same thing for 30 years, there's a strong chance that it may be right for 10 minutes somewhere down the line.

The really good predictors never go on TV, YouTube or blog very often. Some exceptions of course. Ann Coulter springs to mind because based on viewing, she's got more right in a single sentence than all of Baumanns videos put together.

When the Brexit vote was about to happen, the imbecile closet liberal/quaisi conservative in charge of this place pulled off a masterstroke.
_He enlisted the help of the President of the United States of America._

Unfortunately for everyone concerned, that turned out to be the biggest load of bollocks we've witnessed here since Joe Smith wrote the completely forgettable song _Good Luck Titanic _prior to said ship's launch in 1912.

As one very dry American observer stated recently -'_Who needs comedians when we've got the Green Party'

_


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## chimuelo

I just hope that future elections shorten.


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## Baron Greuner

I would just like to say that Fidel Castro has died at the age of 90.

In my view, that's 80 years too long.


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## Michael K. Bain

chimuelo said:


> We might see a new party emerge that outnumbers the unpopular democrats and republicans.


If that happens, I sure hope it's closer to what McMullin envisions than the Alt Right.


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## chimuelo

I think it will be a united large tent of Corporations, banks, Unions, workers, everyone.
These 2 law firms are in total agreement with each other on trade and representing their investors.
Which isn't us.
Some defectors will go along to save their skin, but the false divisions they created using religion race gender age and wealth are coming down like a house of cards.

This Alt Right shit isn't going anywhere, the election is over, that tactic created by the Clinton Campaign failed.
Her supporters and Trump Traumatists want to keep it alive, but when good things finally start happening it will be dismissed just like we dismissed them.

I'm personally looking forward to getting rid of the remainder of the GOP that might try and keep their bull shit 2 party globalist crap going. 
The fake Liberal globalists are history though, and the last few of the failed super majority that ripped us off will be replaced in 2018.


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## Baron Greuner

I'm hoping that the recounts go against Trump and bloody murderous civil war breaks out in the USA. Great way to cure a lot of morbidly obese liberals!

I've stacked up with Pepsi and popcorn so I can watch it all unfold on on tv.

Who says America has become passé and boring?

Not a bit if it!


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## Vischebaste

Baron Greuner said:


> I'm hoping that the recounts go against Trump and bloody muderous civil war breaks out in the USA. Great way to cure a lot of morbidly obese liberals!
> 
> I've stacked up with Pepsi and popcorn so I can watch it all unfold on on tv.
> 
> Who says America has become passé and boring?
> 
> Not a bit if it!



MIND-BLOWING ICONOCLASM!!!


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## Baron Greuner

Here's a clip for people who were not actually alive in 1961. Don't bother listening to Tariq Ali because he's a fucking asshole. Just listen to Hitchens.


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## woodsdenis

The Daily Mail's Peter Hitchens, no wonder his brother detested him. That's the best you can up with .

Watch the smart brother Christopher destroy the odious little toad.


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## chimuelo

Trump is reaching out to registered Bernie supporters.
I participated in the primaries, unlike the rest of you schmucks, and wanted to switch over to Trump but thought his remarks and speaking before thinking kept me in the DNC Camp.

Never expected to see our DMV records shared with anyone other than Democrats.
But the Donald pulled some strings and I have been throwing away GOP propaganda.
But this one I opened.
It's a scratcher, I won.
For 6.95 I use thier self addressed envelope and get my minted coin of our God King Trump..


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## Baron Greuner

Oh Christopher Hitchens would have destroyed Castro and rightly so. Your problem is Denis, is that you're rabid a communist and can't seem to understand the evidence of history. Perhaps you're not old enough or don't have the education?


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## woodsdenis

Baron Greuner said:


> Oh Christopher Hitchens would have destroyed Castro and rightly so. Your problem is Denis, is that you're rabid communist and can't seem to understand the evidence of history. Perhaps you're not old enough or don't have the education?


Yes Christopher would have given a much more educated response I am sure. The fact that you posted a video of an ex Trotskyite climate change denyer to make a point says a lot of your knowledge full stop. You are getting more unhinged Adrian as time goes on, I am certainly not a communist but then again a Daily Mail reader would see anyone to the left of Thatcher as such. I have put you on my ignore list so carry on with your obnoxious posturing. Edit I see on the other thread you think Bernie Sanders is a communist too, good god you truly need an education and to get out more.


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## chimuelo

Please define what Climate Change Denial is.

To me its a juvenile jab as Climate Change has put civilizations underwater or forced them from deserts for 1000s of years.
Who can deny history?

But do the elites you parrot and worship truly believe than can alter Earths orbit or trajectory that follows an Ice Age?
They cant even win elections, but somehow feel the 3% of CO2 humans contribute to the overall planetary emissions will change because they move manufacturing to unregulated areas of the world?

Thier version of saving Earth might be believable if thier actions like preparation for floods drought and redundant power grids be built instead of trying to limit our access to resources by subsidizing thier relatives Solar investments or part time Windmills stupidly built in migratory pathways.

Smart people take advantage of less intelligent people just like Kings and Queens of yore.
You arent royalty by any chance are you?


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## aumordia

So Hillary lost the recounts. Trump even picked up a few votes in WI, and the recount in MI had to be halted because too many ballot boxes (in Clinton territory, mind) had far fewer votes than they were supposed to, indicating rampant fraud.

Then came the failed Electoral College Coup that our disgusting elites hoped to pull off. They managed to peel of two of Trump's electors -- and FIVE of Hillary's, thereby widening Trump's lead. In fact, three additional Hillary electors tried to defect, but state law prevented that. And these shenanigans probably just ensured that a raft of new legislation will get passed that legally binds electors to their states' votes, thereby further cementing the Electoral College which they had hoped to abolish.

This also makes Hillary's loss truly historic. She has arguably lost three times now -- the election, the recounts, and the electoral college -- and has set a record for faithless electors. All while spending the most money, ever, and having the entire ruling apparatus in her favor. This is beyond parody.

I don't know what to call these people. They don't strike me as particularly "left" or "liberal." To the extent I can discern a unifying principle at all, it is that "our way is OBVIOUSLY correct for EVERYONE in ALL places at ALL times -- no exceptions! -- and if you DARE to disagree, you are OBVIOUSLY a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, bigoted asshole."

Well, after Brexit, and Trump, and Italy -- seems to me this weltanschauung isn't all that obviously correct, now is it, assholes?


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## NYC Composer

Thank you for reminding me that I'd neglected to unwatch my old thread, which I'll now proceed to do.

Regardless of your political opinions, your post tells me everything I need to know about you. You're obviously a force for tolerance and respect in the world. I'm sure your deep compassion serves you well.

Btw, Mr. Trump stated today that we need more nukes. I hear nuclear waste is good for the complexion-gives you that shimmering glow.

You be safe out there! Buh-bye.


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## aumordia

Obviously, the height of tolerance and compassion consists of haughtily dismissing an opposing view and curating your information consumption so as to block out dissent. Which worked wonderfully for the powers that be in 2016.


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## Baron Greuner

Nuclear weapons are what has kept the West safe more or less for 70 years. 

You cannot tell Larry, an extremist liberal pacifist (nothing wrong with that btw) stuff like that and hope to get anywhere.

Whenever I've voted in an election, (started in 1970), I always tried to vote on events, not on a rabid and mindless attitudes of what parents, grandparents etc voted for, or what the norm of one's area generally is. So I've voted for all sorts of different factions over the years, apart from communists.

Unfortunately, what I tried to convey over a long period on this thread is the importance of what is happening in the rest of the world and how that impacts on the 2016 USA election. But unfortunately as has historically been the case for many years, Americans don't see past their own States most of the time.

The USA election is now done and dusted and the really interesting stuff happens in Europe next year. 

Questions that might appear obvious would be -:

Will The Netherlands vote in Wilders?
Will Germany vote in the right wing and finally and hopefully shake off the shackles of WW2?
Will the EU take action against Italy over the state intervention of the oldest bank in the world?
Will Greece ever come to it's senses?
Will Mother Theresa ever break her vows of silence?
Will Norway stay ensconced in Liberalism?
And finally and most importantly

Will France vote in Marine Le Pen? That's the big one. I think probably not, but if they do, the EU is all over, washed up, adios muchachos, finito, kaput, arrivederci, au revoir.

These are the important issues now, not the USA election, because how Europe responds to these elections will determine how Trump will respond to them.


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## JonFairhurst

Fact: The alt-right sucks.


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