# Knifonium VST



## José Herring

OMG. The synth G.A.S is killing me.


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## dedene

Sounds beautiful!


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## easyrider

Real thing so much better....yes its the real deal but the Plugin version sounds just ok to me...I'll probably pick it up when its on sale or if my $75 voucher gets me it for $25


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## easyrider

My voucher gets me it for 25 bucks.....


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## doctoremmet

easyrider said:


> My voucher gets me it for 25 bucks.....


You KNEW that was bound to happen. How d’you like it thus far?


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## easyrider

doctoremmet said:


> You KNEW that was bound to happen. How d’you like it thus far?




Not bought it yet...


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## Dr.Quest

josejherring said:


> OMG. The synth G.A.S is killing me.



Me too!


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## José Herring

easyrider said:


> Real thing so much better....yes its the real deal but the Plugin version sounds just ok to me...I'll probably pick it up when its on sale or if my $75 voucher gets me it for $25



A real violin in a skilled player sounds better than the fake one, but I still use the fake one.


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## easyrider

josejherring said:


> A real violin in a skilled player sounds better than the fake one, but I still use the fake one.




Its a tad different....


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## José Herring

easyrider said:


> Its a tad different....


Not really, but hey, I hear you.


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## sostenuto

josejherring said:


> OMG. The synth G.A.S is killing me.




Synth GAS is waaay worse than most other GAS !!


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## Dr.Quest

easyrider said:


> Real thing so much better....yes its the real deal but the Plugin version sounds just ok to me...I'll probably pick it up when its on sale or if my $75 voucher gets me it for $25



Well the real deal is $14,000 so there that. *The Real Deal*


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## kgdrum

I refer myself as a synth-whore,yeah I love and buy too many,lol 
With discounts I can get this for $75 but I’m holding off for now.
Knifoneum sounds analog thick and creamy in a real nice way but in a way artificially thick and creamy to my ears people are also reporting it’s a real processor hog.
If it sound more like the real Knif synth in the videos I’d already have it but it doesn’t. ☹️

The new synth that I’m really trying to resist and I’m afraid I’m going to have to buy is Obsession by Synapse Audio.
It’s really knocking me out! It really sounds like the real Oberheims people in bands I played with used not like a soft-synth.
I have only listened online but it sounds like it’s in the league of Diva,Legend,Repro

I’ll probably go for Knifoneum when the CPU demands get optimized and by that time PA will be blowing it out for $29 or less.


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## vitocorleone123

I bought Obsession on release. It's good, though my enthusiasm has waned with some of the usability/oddities it has. The core sound is great. I've been using bx_oberhausen more again as well, and might like it just much as Obsession in different ways - that's a steal for < $30.

I tried Knifoneum and have already moved on. It just wasn't anything interesting or different enough that I'd want to try and use, or perhaps took too much work to get there from scratch. So... I finally purchased TAL-U-NO-LX v2 instead after trying K. I don't expect to buy K, even once it's down to ~$25 (it'd be $75 for me to buy it right now).

I applaud PA for creating boutique style software synths, though the CPU usage isn't awesome. From what I can tell, it's challenging to create a soft synth that sounds really really good. Especially one modeling analog. PA rose to this challenge. It's then just as hard again on top of that to make something that sounds amazing AND doesn't chew up a CPU as much - it even took U-He years to figure out how to best optimize Diva, for example. I don't expect PA to continue to optimize for long, unfortunately, as they have more plugins to make and market.


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## jononotbono

Ok... so what’s the verdict on this so far? I’m resisting all urges at the minute 😂


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## sostenuto

jononotbono said:


> Ok... so what’s the verdict on this so far? I’m resisting all urges at the minute 😂



Got this just now. Dunno if it will help .... ?? (scroll down to Hannes Bieger Video)









Knif Audio Knifonium


Synth plugin of the legendary and exceptionally beautiful sounding, 26-tube driven analog synthesizer.




www.plugin-alliance.com


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## doctoremmet

jononotbono said:


> Ok... so what’s the verdict on this so far? I’m resisting all urges at the minute 😂


As did I, although a $50 Knifonium offered on KnobCloud made we nervous for a minute. Fortunately the $20 PA fee was not included, tipping the scales. If was a close call though....


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## sostenuto

Got it with PluginAlliance current offer, + personal Voucher for July. Too early to add useful impressions, but Knif Audio and Knifonium hardware was far too impressive to pass, and _clearly influenced by my PA cost. _ Definitely tougher decision at full cost, or current $199.99 promo. 

PA offer 14-day free trials, so quite easy to audition and choose.


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## jononotbono

sostenuto said:


> PA offer 14-day free trials, so quite easy to audition and choose.



Wrong. That’s known as a trap. Just like UAD free trials. There’s nothing free about it. It’s like a drug dealer giving someone a free taste and you will be back... with your wallet 😂


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## doctoremmet

jononotbono said:


> Wrong. That’s known as a trap. Just like UAD free trials. There’s nothing free about it. It’s like a drug dealer giving someone a free taste and you will be back... with your wallet 😂


“Pssst... Hey kid? Yes you. You look a bit tired man. Poor little JoniBoni been pulling another all-nighter yeah? Betcha people from the Isle of Wight don’t know the little secret that keeps us LA folk going. Tell you what, here’s a little taste man. Go on, don’t be shy! Take it. It’s yours. And should you ever need more tube-based little helpers, just go ahead and gimme a call. Here’s a voucher.”


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## doctoremmet




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## jononotbono

doctoremmet said:


> “Pssst... Hey kid? Yes you. You look a bit tired man. Poor little JoniBoni been pulling another all-nighter yeah? Betcha people from the Isle of Wight don’t know the little secret that keeps us LA folk going. Tell you what, here’s a little taste man. Go on, don’t be shy! Take it. It’s yours. And should you ever need more tube-based little helpers, just go ahead and gimme a call. Here’s a voucher.”



The voucher is making sense. It’s basically Willy Wonka’s Golden Ticket. It’s now $149.99. If I buy it, it will definitely make me write better music. It definitely will...


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## vitocorleone123

jononotbono said:


> The voucher is making sense. It’s basically Willy Wonka’s Golden Ticket. It’s now $149.99. If I buy it, it will definitely make me write better music. It definitely will...



Unless it's the best thing you've ever heard, I can only imagine the vast disappointment upon using it after spending $150 on it instead of something like Diva, Dune3, etc., in addition to knowing or discovering that you paid at least $100 more than it'll be priced again in as little as a month, or as low as $29 come Black Friday (minus a voucher to bring it lower).


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## doctoremmet

vitocorleone123 said:


> Unless it's the best thing you've ever heard, I can only imagine the vast disappointment upon using it after spending $150 on it instead of something like Diva, Dune3, etc., in addition to knowing or discovering that you paid at least $100 more than it'll be priced again in as little as a month, or as low as $29 come Black Friday (minus a voucher to bring it lower).


As mentioned, it was already offered for $50 on KnobCloud yesterday. Gone in a second, but it’ll be back “in stock” there soon enough


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## sostenuto

If Diva or Dune3 can duplicate sounds from Knifonium ..... I'm ready after years of leaning. 
With large set of Presets, Knifonium is huge fun right out of box ! .... and yeah, ~$50. is more like it. 

No knocks whatsoever on Diva or Dune3 !! Just not understanding comparisons.


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## kgdrum

vitocorleone123 said:


> Unless it's the best thing you've ever heard, I can only imagine the vast disappointment upon using it after spending $150 on it instead of something like Diva, Dune3, etc., in addition to knowing or discovering that you paid at least $100 more than it'll be priced again in as little as a month, or as low as $29 come Black Friday (minus a voucher to bring it lower).




I totally agree at $149 you are getting close to Diva ,Zebra or Repro territory price-wise.
For $99 I think you can get The Legend which is wonderful! 
We all know within a few months people will be saying this PA sales is great I just got Knifoneum for $29! 
With my previous purchases and coupons I could get this new PA release for I think $75 and I still passed.
From my perspective Knifoneum sounds more like a synth layerd with a Subharmonic synth than an actual Knifoneum ,the actual synth sounds great but to my ears the PA version is OK but doesn’t really sound like the real deal.
@jononotbono 
Sharpen up your PA poker skills,a better hand will be coming soon enough.👍


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## jononotbono

I guess humour can be lost in translation on VI-C. Besides, I already have Diva and I love it.


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## Pier

sostenuto said:


> No knocks whatsoever on Diva or Dune3 !! Just not understanding comparisons.



The expectation is that if you pay $150 for a virtual synth it should be something that has good value.

Knifonium looks like a very specialized synth which might not be as valuable as other synths in that price range (or even cheaper like The Legend). Of course it all depends on how much you _*need*_ that sound.


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## blackzeroaudio

I've only played around with it for about an hour or so. I plan on incorporating it into my template this weekend and getting it into some songs if I can.

Can't comment on whether it sounds as good as the hardware, but it does sound good. Good enough to purchase once my PA MEGA bundle runs out is yet to be seen though.


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## sostenuto

Or 'want' that sound. Knifonium surely stands out as notably unique and quality hardware synth, as evidenced by its cost and waiting list. The referenced video (above) touches nicely on advantages of VSTi /VSTi3 implementation as well.


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## Pier

sostenuto said:


> Or 'want' that sound. Knifonium surely stands out as notably unique and quality hardware synth, as evidenced by its cost and waiting list. The referenced video (above) touches nicely on advantages of VSTi /VSTi3 implementation as well.



Want, need... what's the difference?


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## Fleer

$15 with code KNIF-3999 and a $25 voucher. I’m jumping.


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## Fleer

And it’s unified!

John/Skippy “PlugInGuru” Lehmkuhl wrote: “In all my years of programming this is the closest thing to an Analog synth in software form I've worked with.”


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## jcrosby

Fleer said:


> And it’s unified!
> 
> John/Skippy “PlugInGuru” Lehmkuhl wrote: “In all my years of programming this is the closest thing to an Analog synth in software form I've worked with.”



It's reeally good. And reeeally CPU hungry. Sounds like nothing else that's for sure!


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## bbrylow

José Herring said:


> Not really, but hey, I hear you.


Bottom line is the real one costs $16,000 and this is $75. I’ll take the fake one.


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## KEM

Gonna get this eventually, sounds heavy!!


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## doctoremmet

KEM said:


> Gonna get this eventually, sounds heavy!!


Oh yes, it totally fits your compositions’ esthetics. Wait for a good sale, and holler (DM) if you need a PA loyalty voucher around that time. If they still deem me a loyal PA customer I’d happily part with my voucher.


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## KEM

doctoremmet said:


> Oh yes, it totally fits your compositions’ esthetics. Wait for a good sale, and holler (DM) if you need a PA loyalty voucher around that time. If they still deem me a loyal PA customer I’d happily part with my voucher.



Thank you!! I actually just got my tax return today (finally) so I might have to…


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## kgdrum

KEM said:


> Thank you!! I actually just got my tax return today (finally) so I might have to…


Wait for a sale,with a voucher I bought it for $15


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## doctoremmet

As I said… wait for a sale  because I think I have purchased other PA gems like LION, Thorn and oberhausen for as little as $15, when they did one of those 39.99 sales (using my $25 voucher). Knifonium I may have paid slightly more for, because I was impatient


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## KEM

If I can get it that cheap I don’t mind waiting at all, that’s an absolute steal


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## doctoremmet

KEM said:


> If I can get it that cheap I don’t mind waiting at all, that’s an absolute steal


Oh but you can and you will Sir!
(check post #32 for example)


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## kgdrum

doctoremmet said:


> As I said… wait for a sale  because I think I have purchased other PA gems like LION, Thorn and oberhausen for as little as $15, when they did one of those 39.99 sales (using my $25 voucher). Knifonium I may have paid slightly more for, because I was impatient


Yeah I bought Lion,Thorn,Oberhausen and Knifoneum all for $15 each with vouchers during various bl-weekly PA sales. 😎


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## Saxer

So sad: https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/blog/blogpost/items/bx-under-water.html


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## doctoremmet

Saxer said:


> So sad: https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/blog/blogpost/items/bx-under-water.html


Yes indeed…


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## KEM

doctoremmet said:


> Oh but you can and you will Sir!
> (check post #32 for example)



This and Hive are next on my list for sure


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## doctoremmet

KEM said:


> This and Hive are next on my list for sure


Hive. Another one of my favourites! Better take care and avoid any videos on Bazille, and the video @Sound Author made of his Equinox soundset. And DEFINITELY avoid Howard Scarr’s Bazille Cookbook - or those tax returns will vaporize before you know it


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## doctoremmet

Oops…


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## doctoremmet

@Databroth Would love to see you work your magic on Knifonium some time.


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## Fleer

doctoremmet said:


> DEFINITELY avoid Howard Scarr’s Bazille Cookbook - or those tax returns will vaporize before you know it


And definitely avoid Howard Scarr. You want to get everything he creates. I met him during Frankfurt’s Musikmesse a few years ago. Wonderful dev.


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## kgdrum

Fleer said:


> And definitely avoid Howard Scarr. You want to get everything he creates. I met him during Frankfurt’s Musikmesse a few years ago. Wonderful dev.


I’ve built 2 recent songs around Howard’s Cookbook patches
+1 Howard is one of my all time favorite patch magicians,he’s enormously talented.


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## KEM

Well there’s a reason Scarr is one of Hans’ main sound designers…!


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## doctoremmet

Anyone notice all the cool synthesizer threads are always started by this guy @José Herring ?


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## jcrosby

doctoremmet said:


> Anyone notice all the cool synthesizer threads are always started by this guy @José Herring ?


No way José! 


(Sorry. Dad jokes are impossible for me to ignore)


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## kgdrum

doctoremmet said:


> Anyone notice all the cool synthesizer threads are always started by this guy @José Herring ?


and it seems like a huge percentage of the threads about buying new synths comes from some sort of Doctor…………….


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## doctoremmet

Yeah. That Doctor Mix fellow is something else, isn’t he


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## KEM

doctoremmet said:


> Anyone notice all the cool synthesizer threads are always started by this guy @José Herring ?



And a big shoutout to José for making me the TENET Freeport patch!!!


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## kevinh

doctoremmet said:


> Anyone notice all the cool synthesizer threads are always started by this guy @José Herring ?


He needs to get banned for a while so my wallet gets relief hehe


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## KEM

kevinh said:


> He needs to get banned for a while so my wallet gets relief hehe



No way cause then he can’t teach me synthesis!!


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## stixman

He is a great guy indeed...I know him very positive energy solid guy...and we played together in 2007 he stood in for our synth player...it’s on yt 


kgdrum said:


> I’ve built 2 recent songs around Howard’s Cookbook patches
> +1 Howard is one of my all time favorite patch magicians,he’s enormously talented.





doctoremmet said:


> Hive. Another one of my favourites! Better take care and avoid any videos on Bazille, and the video @Sound Author made of his Equinox soundset. And DEFINITELY avoid Howard Scarr’s Bazille Cookbook - or those tax returns will vaporize before you know it


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## kgdrum

stixman said:


> He is a great guy indeed...I know him very positive energy solid guy...and we played together in 2007 he stood in for our synth player...it’s on yt


Can you post a link?


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## stixman

I’ll dm you it


kgdrum said:


> Can you post a link?


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## kgdrum

stixman said:


> I’ll dm you it


Great thanks 😎


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## doctoremmet

stixman said:


> He is a great guy indeed...I know him very positive energy solid guy...and we played together in 2007 he stood in for our synth player...it’s on yt


Link?


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## KEM

The Knif sounds like it could do this kind of sound pretty well, that has me excited!!


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## José Herring

KEM said:


> The Knif sounds like it could do this kind of sound pretty well, that has me excited!!



It could but it would be a ton of work, at least for me anyway. In essence Knifonium as a subtractive type synth. The synth in that example is more of Buchla style synthesis. So if you wanted to nail that sound, I'd start there with a "westcoast" style synthesis. Knifonium has a wave folder for FX but it's not built into the design of the synth like it is in Buchla style synths. 

Here's a hardware eurorack one but the software Buchla Easel V is great too. I'm thinking of getting it.


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## doctoremmet

Buchla? Maybe try the free Pendulate. Because Generate (poly paid version) works way easier than the Arturia emulation and has “that”’ sound.


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## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> Buchla? Maybe try the free Pendulate. Because Generate (poly paid version) works way easier than the Arturia emulation and has “that”’ sound.


Yes it does. Funny I got Generate before I ever new about Pendulate, but they seem almost the same. Probably could have gotten my feet wet with Pendulate for Generate.


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## KEM

You two are really gonna make me go down a synth rabbit hole I swear…

I have so much to learn, but that definitely excites me, synthesis is probably the one thing I want to really get good at more than anything else (well, besides composing in general lol)


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## KEM

Now I’m curious, how do both of you feel about Serum? Being that it’s the kind of EDM and all things in the popular music world


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## doctoremmet

Have it. Great wavetable synth. Very well respected and supported (both by the developer and third parties). In other words: revered synth.

But. Weirdly I hardly ever use it. I never mention it in my many passionate lists. And I don’t know why… (Massive X: same story).

I need wavetables, I take Hive, Pigments or Falcon. Maybe even MSF. Of those four Hive has “the magic” for me. Id est: the sound. The SOUND haha.

José is a big OTT fan, so I bet he uses more Xfer stuff than I ever will.


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## KEM

I’m also a massive OTT fan, I put it on almost everything lol

I feel the same way, I have Serum but I hardly ever touch it, I find it to be too modern for most cinematic stuff in a way, it’s hard to blend it with orchestral stuff and other synths I have


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## doctoremmet

So @KEM. Don’t let all our talk get to you. Honestly, with Knifonium and Hive you’ll have enough to chew on for years to come. Soundwise they’re completely different and I suppose pretty complementary. Learn those and you’re golden.


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## doctoremmet

KEM said:


> I’m also a massive OTT fan, I put it on almost everything lol
> 
> I feel the same way, I have Serum but I hardly ever touch it, I find it to be too modern for most cinematic stuff in a way, it’s hard to blend it with orchestral stuff and other synths I have


Yeah I guess that’s it. It’s like I’m looking for a cool old fashioned knife, with wood and my initials on it and some family weapons (Hive) and Serum is this stainless steel surgery knife. It just doesn’t gel?


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## José Herring

KEM said:


> Now I’m curious, how do both of you feel about Serum? Being that it’s the kind of EDM and all things in the popular music world


Personally I think Serum is killer, but unfortunately I was never motivated to get it. I am a Reason user and there are a couple of wavetable synths. The Rack Extension Expanse sounds just as good as serum has 4 ocs rather than 3 and then also can read serum wavetables. So I used that until I got Vital and then never really felt the need to get Serum. But when it first came out I was blown away by Serum so you can't go wrong with it. Just for me paying another dime for something that I could already do just didn't appeal to me. Then I got Phaseplant and between all that the idea of Serum became a faded memory. 

If you really want to learn synthesis there's a few things that really helped me. First was learning the real difference between the kinds of synthesis so that when something new comes out you know what ballpark to play in. Second, learning what each button really does. Then learn what each part of a synth does. 

Lastly I took this course called Synotrial. Never made it to the end, I might someday but even after the first few lessons I was banging out some synth patches. The course forces you to confront by ear what each part of the synth does. It was really more helpful than I care to admit. So now when I listen to a sound, I can deconstruct it and rebuild it like I did with that Tenet patch. I was able from this course to actually sell my first all synth cues for a movie. 









Syntorial: The Ultimate Synthesizer Tutorial | Syntorial
 

Syntorial is more than just another synth tutorial. It's video game-like training software, that will teach you how to program synth patches by ear.




www.syntorial.com


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## José Herring

I love OTT. That's all I use. It's amazing little thing that just kind of makes everything sound good if used well. It was my missing link between what I consider old school sound to more modern stuff.


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## KEM

I’ve actually been looking at Syntorial recently, so I’ll probably go ahead and bite the bullet on it and get it as I was already interested in it anyways.

And you’re totally right about OTT, I love putting it on stuff like Zebra or Arturia’s CS80, makes it the analog sound very modern, I’m a big fan


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## José Herring

Oh one warning about Syntorial. I loved the course but after a while the synth he's using just started to grate on my ears. My only critique is the course would be a lot better if the sound quality of the synth used in the instruction was better quality.


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## doctoremmet

I think @Markrs has done or is still doing the Syntorial courses. I have learned my “chops” on many many hardware synths. First ever synthesis back in the mid eighties was Yammie FM, so that’s still kind of my go-to, but I do like subtractive and wavetable synthesis as well. 

What has always amazed me and still does, is the advent of wavetable synthesis as sort of the most ubiquitous “plain vanilla” type of architecture nowadays. Like it’s the starting point for many. I get why it may have evolved like this (basically once you’re conceiving a softsynth you might as well just add wavetable scanning capable osc’s, as the rest of the architecture is basically just subtractive anyway) - but back in the day it was pretty marginal. 

For a long period of time, when memory became sort of affordable, we had romplers. M1, D50, AWM and all the derivatives. Never spoke to me, other than in the most practical sense (“I need a shakuhachi like sound”, browse 500 patches, found it, play track). Can’t say that I have ever programmed one of those sample based synths for fun. I do have Xpand2! and honestly… for a tenner it is a ridiculously close emulation of the entire Roland JVxxxx universe. At least to me it is. 

What feels weird to me, looking at the current state of affairs, is that I may enjoy the little hardware emulations companies like Arturia and Cherry Audio (and PA) put out almost better than some of the large workhorse synths. That includes UI, but I’m a romantic sucker for skeumorphic shit. What’s even weirder is that it seems to be that’s where the money’s at. Where are the spiritual successors to Yamaha’s 1990s VL1 physical modelling synth? AAS stuff is cool. Audio Modelling, Aaron Venture: cool. But not “hey we’re 30 years in the future” cool somehow?

Anyway… yeah. Restrict yourself to a bunch of synths that you really want to LEARN and program. Buy all the rest (you know you will) for browsing presets


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## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> I think @Markrs has done or is still doing the Syntoriol courses. I have learned my “chops” on many many hardware synths. First ever synthesis back in the mid eighties was Yammie FM, so that’s still kind of my go-to, but I do like subtractive and wavetable synthesis as well.
> 
> What has always amazed me and still does, is the advent of wavetable synthesis as sort of the most ubiquitous “plain vanilla” type of architecture nowadays. Like it’s the starting point for many. I get why it may have evolved like this (basically once you’re conceiving a softsynth you might as well just add wavetable scanning capable osc’s, as the rest of the architecture is basically just subtractive anyway) - but back in the day it was pretty marginal.
> 
> For a long period of time, when memory became sort of affordable, we had romplers. M1, D50, AWM and all the derivatives. Never spoke to me, other than in the most practical sense (“I need a shakuhachi like sound”, browse 500 patches, found it, play track). Can’t say that I have ever programmed one of those sample based synths for fun. I do have Xpand2! and honestly… for a tenner it is a ridiculously close emulation of the entire Roland JVxxxx universe. At least to me it is.
> 
> What feels weird to me, looking at the current state of affairs, is that I may enjoy the little hardware emulations companies like Arturia and Cherry Audio (and PA) put out almost better than some of the large workhorse synths. That includes UI, but I’m a romantic sucker for skeumorphic shit. What’s even weirder is that it seems to be that’s where the money’s at. Where are the spiritual successors to Yamaha’s 1990s VL1 physical modelling synth? AAS stuff is cool. Audio Modelling, Aaron Venture: cool. But not “hey we’re 30 years in the future” cool somehow?
> 
> Anyway… yeah. Restrict yourself to a bunch of synths that you really want to LEARN and program. Buy all the rest (you know you will) for browsing presets


The key with Syntorial is not so much teaching you synthesis, more than it trains your ear, as you are given examples you have recreate by ear. It is easily worth it. 

Now if you just want to learn synthesis there are lots of tutorials online, though easier to find you search with a synth in mind such as "Vital tutorial" or "learn synthesis with Vital". I used Vital as an example as there are so many tutorials on it. You can also search for a synthesis type such as "learn subtractive synthesis"


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## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> I think @Markrs has done or is still doing the Syntoriol courses. I have learned my “chops” on many many hardware synths. First ever synthesis back in the mid eighties was Yammie FM, so that’s still kind of my go-to, but I do like subtractive and wavetable synthesis as well.
> 
> What has always amazed me and still does, is the advent of wavetable synthesis as sort of the most uniquitous “plain vanilla” type of architecture nowadays. Like it’s the starting point for many. I get why it may have evolved like this (basically once you’re conceiving a softsynth you might as well just add wavetable scanning capable osc’s, as the rest of the architecture is basically just subtractive anyway) - but back in the day it was pretty marginal.
> 
> For a long period of time, when memory became sort of affordable, we had romplers. M1, D50, AWM and all the derivatives. Never spoke to me, other than in the most practical sense (“I need a shakuhachi like sound”, browse 500 patches, found it, play track). Can’t say that I have ever programmed one of those sample based synths for fun. I do have Xpand2! and honestly… for a tenner it is a ridiculously close emulation of the entire Roland JVxxxx universe. At least to me it is.
> 
> What feels weird to me, looking at the current state of affairs, is that I may enjoy the little hardware emulations companies like Arturia and Cherry Audio (and PA) put out almost better than some of the large workhorse synths. That includes UI, but I’m a romantic sucker for skeumorphic shit. What’s even weirder is that it seems to be that’s where the money’s at. Where are the spiritual successors to Yamaha’s 1990s VL1 physical modelling synth? AAS stuff is cool. Audio Modelling, Aaron Venture: cool. But not “hey we’re 30 years in the future” cool somehow?
> 
> Anyway… yeah. Restrict yourself to a bunch of synths that you really want to LEARN and program. Buy all the rest (you know you will) for browsing presets


Interesting story for sure. 

I grew up in the Rompler days. The M1 was my first synth and then I got a Korg O1W/FD and Roland Jv880 with some EMU drum box that I can't remember the name of. To this day because I started with that I still have better luck with Rompler style synthesis and I notice that when I'm composing I'll often create a synth sound, sample it then manipulate the sample. It just works better for me given my years of being a rompler preset tweaker. 

My big passion though these days are digital synths that emulated analog. like the JD800. Somehow that's the midway point for me and was my jumping off point into software synths. 

You are right about Wavetable. Somehow that became the go to for the young guns but man when I was growing up the PPG was a marginal synth that nobody owned and wavetable synths for me I only became somewhat familiar with Reason's Maelstrom that used what it called graintable synthesis.


----------



## José Herring

@KEM 

Also, Hans recommended a book a long time ago called Vintage Synthesizers. I keep a copy of that near my studio and also on Kindle. It explains in great loving detail what made each of the classic synths unique and interesting. It helps to weed through all the B.S. that's all there now that every programmer can made a synth. 

Another thing I came across was an old Roland Modular manual. That one was great because it explained in plain English what each module does and how it relates to other modules. Goldmine


----------



## KEM

I’ll look into those as well, anything to help me get better I’m all in for. I love presets for quick inspiration, but I always feel like I’m cheating myself but using them on final tracks, especially if their the main focus of a track, just feels like I’m lying to myself


----------



## KEM

Also it’s crazy hearing you guys talk about growing up with all these old hardware synths, you know what was the biggest synth when I was growing up…? Serum lol


----------



## doctoremmet

José Herring said:


> I notice that when I'm composing I'll often create a synth sound, sample it then manipulate the sample. It just works better for me given my years of being a rompler preset tweaker.


I bet when Tom Holkenborg would read this, he’d be like:






We need to hook you up with a Roland S50, to sample your stuff in, before rendering it out to a WAV in your DAW / preferred sampler plugin. You know… for more street cred… I mean… a way better sound.


----------



## Pier

José Herring said:


> @KEM
> 
> Also, Hans recommended a book a long time ago called Vintage Synthesizers. I keep a copy of that near my studio and also on Kindle. It explains in great loving detail what made each of the classic synths unique and interesting. It helps to weed through all the B.S. that's all there now that every programmer can made a synth.
> 
> Another thing I came across was an old Roland Modular manual. That one was great because it explained in plain English what each module does and how it relates to other modules. Goldmine


Is it this one?


----------



## doctoremmet

Pier said:


> Is it this one?


Great book. Had it for years.

Another cool one is this - more of a history book:


----------



## digitallysane

__





Books Archives - GreatSynthesizers







greatsynthesizers.com


----------



## Pier

digitallysane said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Books Archives - GreatSynthesizers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> greatsynthesizers.com


Thanks!

This is the book on Amazon btw


----------



## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> I bet when Tom Holkenborg would read this, he’d be like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need to hook you up with a Roland S50, to sample your stuff in, before rendering it out to a WAV in your DAW / preferred sampler plugin. You know… for more street cred… I mean… a way better sound.



It is so funny because CUbase now has a built in sampler track that sounds almost identical in vintage mode. Also Reason has a sampler that has a lofi mode as well. I also bought a Reason RE that makes everything sound like an old AKIa sampler. It just sounds so right to me.


----------



## rnb_2

José Herring said:


> Oh one warning about Syntorial. I loved the course but after a while the synth he's using just started to grate on my ears. My only critique is the course would be a lot better if the sound quality of the synth used in the instruction was better quality.


You can do the lessons with Massive, Serum, or Sylenth1 instead of Primer - there are presets on the Syntorial site for each. One of the reasons I upgraded to Komplete Select was to get Massive to use with Syntorial.


----------



## José Herring

Pier said:


> Is it this one?


This is the one I got after Hans mentioned it.


----------



## José Herring

rnb_2 said:


> You can do the lessons with Massive, Serum, or Sylenth1 instead of Primer - there are presets on the Syntorial site for each. One of the reasons I upgraded to Komplete Select was to get Massive to use with Syntorial.


Oh man great! You just saved me from suffering another night with that aliasing saw wave.


----------



## Databroth

doctoremmet said:


> @Databroth Would love to see you work your magic on Knifonium some time.


I've demoed knifonium and it's not really for me, I enjoy the rough "analog" type stuff sometimes, but I've found it hard to do the hour long streams with them, I'm not much of a keyboard player is the first problem too


----------



## doctoremmet

Databroth said:


> I've demoed knifonium and it's not really for me, I enjoy the rough "analog" type stuff sometimes, but I've found it hard to do the hour long streams with them, I'm not much of a keyboard player is the first problem too


I hear you. Stuff like LION is more suited for something like that, huh?


----------



## KEM

I like really distorted stuff.

Is that obvious…?


----------



## KEM

How did I just now find out Plug-in Alliance has a monthly subscription?! I’m signing up right now, Knifonium here I come!!


----------



## Justin L. Franks

KEM said:


> How did I just now find out Plug-in Alliance has a monthly subscription?! I’m signing up right now, Knifonium here I come!!


Or you could just wait for the next sale and get Knifonium for ~$25-30.


----------



## kgdrum

Justin L. Franks said:


> Or you could just wait for the next sale and get Knifonium for ~$25-30.


Aim lower.
During most of the sales utilizing a $25 voucher, $15 for any of the PA synths is not that unusual.

p.s. fwiw : I have every PA synth except for the disaster aka Matcha and I paid $15 for each using vouchers.
Of course you have to be patient and wait for a few sales but in
the Plugin Alliance Universe sales happen generally every 3 or 4 weeks.

$25-$30? no way………….


----------



## KEM

Justin L. Franks said:


> Or you could just wait for the next sale and get Knifonium for ~$25-30.



I know, but there’s also a lot of other really good plugins in the bundle, more than worth the money for me


----------



## vitocorleone123

KEM said:


> I know, but there’s also a lot of other really good plugins in the bundle, more than worth the money for me


If you've signed up, then you need to use bx_oberhausen - it's the best sounding Oberheim SEM emulation on the market (to me). I love it. I disliked Knifonium despite trying it more than once. Just wasn't for me.

DS Thorn is interesting and can be useful if you want fully digital sounding glitchiness.

I'm not into modular stuff so the Unfiltered Audio stuff is also not for me. I sold the Triad effect plugin after having it for a year.


----------



## José Herring

KEM said:


> How did I just now find out Plug-in Alliance has a monthly subscription?! I’m signing up right now, Knifonium here I come!!


I got the mix and master subscription. My first one and as I feared, there's no going back for me. I could never do without these plugins now and it would cost me too much to replace them with fully paid versions. But...I have to admit it gives me a little twinge of pain every time I see the word "subscription" in the registration field on the bottom right of the plugins.


----------



## doctoremmet

Justin L. Franks said:


> Or you could just wait for the next sale and get Knifonium for ~$25-30.


@KEM I promised to keep my eye out. And although you have now defected to the camp of subscription traitors, me thinks it is time for someone to gift you a $25 voucher and let you buy this anyway. This is one to own 

$15 = awesome value!


----------



## doctoremmet

I still have my $50 voucher if needed. Or did I send it already? I forget…


----------



## KEM

doctoremmet said:


> I still have my $50 voucher if needed. Or did I send it already? I forget…



I’m definitely down to own the synth, I can use the subscription fee to try stuff out that I might be interested in actually owning eventually, so far I’ve been really liking the Knifonium and for sure want to be able to keep it


----------



## doctoremmet

KEM said:


> I’m definitely down to own the synth, I can use the subscription fee to try stuff out that I might be interested in actually owning eventually, so far I’ve been really liking the Knifonium and for sure want to be able to keep it


Did I send you my voucher & do you have any use for a $50 one at the moment? I may have another interested party on the other line


----------



## KEM

doctoremmet said:


> Did I send you my voucher & do you have any use for a $50 one at the moment? I may have another interested party on the other line



Up to you!! $40 is still super cheap so I don’t mind buying it for that much


----------



## kgdrum

KEM said:


> Up to you!! $40 is still super cheap so I don’t mind buying it for that much


Blasphemy! 😱

PA Poker is a required skill that must be harnessed and mastered to utilize Plugin Alliance successfully!
It’s a vital aspect of the Plugin Alliance experience.
Even Dirk and company don’t expect anyone that’s familiar with Plugin Alliance to pay anything but the lowest possible price for any PA plugin.


----------



## doctoremmet

KEM said:


> Up to you!! $40 is still super cheap so I don’t mind buying it for that much


Cool. First order or business: hook you up with a $25 voucher.

@Markrs ? Still have yours? Want to gift it to our Tenet friend here? I agree with Kenny: noone should pay $40 for Knifonium. Of course I will gladly donate my $50 voucher but that’s besides the point.

Any others with a $25 PA voucher for our man here?


----------



## Markrs

doctoremmet said:


> Cool. First order or business: hook you up with a $25 voucher.
> 
> @Markrs ? Still have yours? Want to gift it to our Tenet friend here? I agree with Kenny: noone should pay $40 for Knifonium. Of course I will gladly donate my $50 voucher but that’s besides the point.
> 
> Any others with a $25 PA voucher for our man here?


I'll DM @KEM with my code


----------



## KEM

@doctoremmet @Markrs thank you both!!


----------



## Markrs

KEM said:


> @doctoremmet @Markrs thank you both!!


No probs 🙂


----------



## doctoremmet

Markrs said:


> No probs 🙂


Lovely. Thanks Mark! Have fun Tenet!


----------



## KEM

I will forever be known here as the djent/TENET guy and I have no problem with that lol

One day I'll be working for Ludwig Göransson...


----------



## KEM

Of course the first thing I did when opening up the Knifonium was to try and recreate my favorite synth patch of all time, which is obviously a patch from TENET!!


----------



## doctoremmet

KEM said:


> Of course the first thing I did when opening up the Knifonium was to try and recreate my favorite synth patch of all time, which is obviously a patch from TENET!!



Great sound you made - my young Padawan


----------



## KEM

doctoremmet said:


> Great sound you made - my young Padawan



I’m getting there, slowly but surely!! I really like how easy it is to send this synth into overdrive, it’s not clean and that’s why I love it


----------



## KEM

Pretty sure I exported that clip with my Sonarworks profile still on…

Stupid!!


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

KEM said:


> Pretty sure I exported that clip with my Sonarworks profile still on…
> 
> Stupid!!


Depending which daw you use you can put the sonarworks plugin only on monitoring. So if you export it's never there. In cubase at least it's very simple to setup.


----------



## KEM

Markus Kohlprath said:


> Depending which daw you use you can put the sonarworks plugin only on monitoring. So if you export it's never there. In cubase at least it's very simple to setup.



I’m on Cubase, how would I do that?


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

KEM said:


> I’m on Cubase, how would I do that?


Get back to it tomorrow because I'm out of the studio now. Is very simple.


----------



## KEM

Markus Kohlprath said:


> Get back to it tomorrow because I'm out of the studio now. Is very simple.



Sounds good, let me know whenever you can


----------



## olvra

KEM said:


> I’m on Cubase, how would I do that?


(workday is done so no DAW, from memory; sorry the lack of imgs this time)

Audio Connections - Control Room tab - On button - Set Device Ports

This will "steal" the outputs from the Outputs tab but that's no problema


----------



## KEM

olvra said:


> (workday is done so no DAW, from memory; sorry the lack of imgs this time)
> 
> Audio Connections - Control Room tab - On button - Set Device Ports
> 
> This will "steal" the outputs from the Outputs tab but that's no problema



So I just put the insert on the monitors in the Control Room?


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

KEM said:


> So I just put the insert on the monitors in the Control Room?


Yes exactly. Couldn't reply earlier but this is what I would have told you. The Control Room in Cubase is great. It disconnects the monitoring from the stereo outs so you don't mess up with any special monitoring setups like sonarworks or forgeting to dial back mono monitoring when printing the final mix.


----------



## KEM

Markus Kohlprath said:


> Yes exactly. Couldn't reply earlier but this is what I would have told you. The Control Room in Cubase is great. It disconnects the monitoring from the stereo outs so you don't mess up with any special monitoring setups like sonarworks or forgeting to dial back mono monitoring when printing the final mix.



I’ll try to see if I can get it to work, I put it on the monitor channel but it didn’t seem to do anything


----------



## Markus Kohlprath

KEM said:


> I’ll try to see if I can get it to work, I put it on the monitor channel but it didn’t seem to do anything


First you have to activate the control room of course. Press f4 go to cr and click activate. This deactivates the output of the stereo out channels. Then you can route the outputs of the control room to your audio interface. You can setup different outputs for different monitor situations if you need to do so.


----------



## KEM

Markus Kohlprath said:


> First you have to activate the control room of course. Press f4 go to cr and click activate. This deactivates the output of the stereo out channels. Then you can route the outputs of the control room to your audio interface. You can setup different outputs for different monitor situations if you need to do so.



Ohhhh ok, I’ll give that a shot, I’ve never actually used the control room before, thanks!!


----------



## KEM

Main motif is all Knifonium, tried to make the most aggressive, KEM-sounding bass I could for it


----------



## doctoremmet

New patches by @Whywhy


----------



## Bee_Abney

doctoremmet said:


> New patches by @Whywhy




I love hearing what great designers come up with for this synth. It's such a great instrument.


----------



## Whywhy

Thanks for sharing the info!

Knifonium Instability* is a collection of 69 sounds focusing on analog instability and driven tubes! From pads to lead, bass and others goodies. 

NKS format included. 

Enjoy! 

*required: Knifonium plug-in synth: https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/knif_audio_knifonium.html


----------



## doctoremmet

Whywhy said:


> Thanks for sharing the info!
> 
> Knifonium Instability* is a collection of 69 sounds focusing on analog instability and driven tubes! From pads to lead, bass and others goodies.
> 
> NKS format included.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> *required: Knifonium plug-in synth: https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/knif_audio_knifonium.html



For those wanting to purchase this synth, PA just reset all three ANY-2999-1 (and 2 and 3) vouchers. So the synth is cheap today. Get both it and the @Whywhy soundset


----------



## Crowe

Whywhy said:


> Knifonium Instability* is a collection of 69 sounds focusing on analog instability and driven tubes! From pads to lead, bass and others goodies.


_Nice._


----------



## KEM

Whywhy said:


> Thanks for sharing the info!
> 
> Knifonium Instability* is a collection of 69 sounds focusing on analog instability and driven tubes! From pads to lead, bass and others goodies.
> 
> NKS format included.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> *required: Knifonium plug-in synth: https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/knif_audio_knifonium.html




I’m in


----------



## SupremeFist

Whywhy said:


> Thanks for sharing the info!
> 
> Knifonium Instability* is a collection of 69 sounds focusing on analog instability and driven tubes! From pads to lead, bass and others goodies.
> 
> NKS format included.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> *required: Knifonium plug-in synth: https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/knif_audio_knifonium.html



Mmmmm, bought. 🤘🏻


----------



## sostenuto

SupremeFist said:


> Mmmmm, bought. 🤘🏻


Done !


----------



## Snoobydoobydoo

Its on sale again at PA. Soo…oohh..


----------



## davidson

I'm sure this used to be NKS ready and show up in komplete kontrol. Am I wrong?


----------



## Bee_Abney

davidson said:


> I'm sure this used to be NKS ready and show up in komplete kontrol. Am I wrong?



It does show up in Komplete Kontrol. I'm away so can't confirm right now, but I'm sure I've used it that way.


----------



## richmwhitfield

Yeah it definitely does show up in Komplete Kontrol


----------



## davidson

A re-install got it to appear, cheers!


----------



## KEM

Will it ever be Apple Silicon native though…?


----------



## rnb_2

I'm setting up my MacBook Pro, and I noticed when I downloaded my PA installers last night that the Installation Manager now has a selection for "Native M1 Products", so it looks like they're getting ready. There's nothing in that category yet, but it is a sign of progress.


----------



## davidson

rnb_2 said:


> I'm setting up my MacBook Pro, and I noticed when I downloaded my PA installers last night that the Installation Manager now has a selection for "Native M1 Products", so it looks like they're getting ready. There's nothing in that category yet, but it is a sign of progress.


I noticed that too, got excited, then got un-excited


----------



## José Herring

doctoremmet said:


> I bet when Tom Holkenborg would read this, he’d be like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need to hook you up with a Roland S50, to sample your stuff in, before rendering it out to a WAV in your DAW / preferred sampler plugin. You know… for more street cred… I mean… a way better sound.



It's funny I saw this video and it made sense to me. I always thought that I was deficient because I couldn't make a "regular" synth sound as good as I can samples. But, it is what it is for me.

I considered the S50 but I ended up getting this little device in Reason that down samples anything you run through it. It has the exact same sound. I also think that Cubase's 12bit mode does the same thing. It works great on drums because there's no high end so it blends well with other stuff.


KEM said:


> Main motif is all Knifonium, tried to make the most aggressive, KEM-sounding bass I could for it



Dude, I seriously like your covers better than the originals.


----------



## KEM

José Herring said:


> Dude, I seriously like your covers better than the originals.



This one’s actually all original!! It’s of course heavily inspired by Ludwig’s score for Venom but I didn’t use any motifs that he wrote, just took the general vibe and sonic palette he created and ran with it. Now the TENET stuff on the other hand, those were meant to be as close to the originals as possible but I still did my own thing with them when I could, an interpolation/interpretation if you will


I swear on my life I will work for him one day…


----------



## José Herring

KEM said:


> This one’s actually all original!! It’s of course heavily inspired by Ludwig’s score for Venom but I didn’t use any motifs that he wrote, just took the general vibe and sonic palette he created and ran with it. Now the TENET stuff on the other hand, those were meant to be as close to the originals as possible but I still did my own thing with them when I could, an interpolation/interpretation if you will
> 
> 
> I swear on my life I will work for him one day…


Dude, it's a slammin' track. You need to start pitching your stuff to film/tv/trailer/game and library companies. This track is as pro as it gets.


----------



## KEM

José Herring said:


> Dude, it's a slammin' track. You need to start pitching your stuff to film/tv/trailer/game and library companies. This track is as pro as it gets.



You really think so? I second guess everything lol

And I get told all the time that I should do trailers or library music but I am just strictly set on scoring films, tv shows, and video games. I’m not completely opposed to the idea since it could advance my career and actually help me get those jobs I want so it might actually be the way to go, but I can’t help but just want to start interning under a Hollywood composer and work my way up


----------



## José Herring

KEM said:


> You really think so? I second guess everything lol
> 
> And I get told all the time that I should do trailers or library music but I am just strictly set on scoring films, tv shows, and video games. I’m not completely opposed to the idea since it could advance my career and actually help me get those jobs I want so it might actually be the way to go, but I can’t help but just want to start interning under a Hollywood composer and work my way up


Do what you want. Nothing wrong with films, tv and video games. Library music is kind of its own thing and takes a bit of learning the formats. Not everything gets picked up as library music. 

So use your instincts and try and find your niche.


----------



## KEM

José Herring said:


> Do what you want. Nothing wrong with films, tv and video games. Library music is kind of its own thing and takes a bit of learning the formats. Not everything gets picked up as library music.
> 
> So use your instincts and try and find your niche.



I want to do exactly what Ludwig and Hans do!!


----------



## Pier

KEM said:


> You really think so? I second guess everything lol
> 
> And I get told all the time that I should do trailers or library music but I am just strictly set on scoring films, tv shows, and video games. I’m not completely opposed to the idea since it could advance my career and actually help me get those jobs I want so it might actually be the way to go, but I can’t help but just want to start interning under a Hollywood composer and work my way up


Listen to José goddammit!

You're young and talented. I would have given anything to be able to do what you do at your age.

Go talk to Ludwig! Send demos to HZ or Tom Holkenborg!

Nothing is going to happen if you let your music rot on Soundcloud.


----------



## KEM

Pier said:


> Listen to José goddammit!
> 
> You're young and talented. I would have given anything to be able to do what you do at your age.
> 
> Go talk to Ludwig! Send demos to HZ or Tom Holkenborg!
> 
> Nothing is going to happen if you let your music rot on Soundcloud.



That’s very true, I could definitely reach out to Hans or Junkie but I have no idea how to get in touch with Ludwig


----------



## Marcus Millfield

Pier said:


> Listen to José goddammit!
> 
> You're young and talented. I would have given anything to be able to do what you do at your age.
> 
> Go talk to Ludwig! Send demos to HZ or Tom Holkenborg!
> 
> Nothing is going to happen if you let your music rot on Soundcloud.



Listen to Jose and Pier goddamnit! That track is sick AF, if you'll pardon my language.


----------



## KEM

Marcus Millfield said:


> Listen to Jose and Pier goddamnit! That track is sick AF, if you'll pardon my language.



Thank you!!


----------



## doctoremmet

Listen to José, Pier & mijn mattie Marcus goddamnit. You and Michael (@Baronvonheadless) are like my two favourite young composers on this entire forum. You guys rock, each in your own sort of domain. You crank out the good stuff, are able to produce your tracks to a beyond-decent level, and know what you want. Go do it! And “it” has to be whatever YOU want it to be. I have a lot of confidence in you Kenneth.


----------



## Bee_Abney

KEM said:


> That’s very true, I could definitely reach out to Hans or Junkie but I have no idea how to get in touch with Ludwig



Do you know how to get in touch with anyone who would know how to get in touch with Ludwig? An agent, publisher, colleague?


----------



## Bee_Abney

KEM said:


> That’s very true, I could definitely reach out to Hans or Junkie but I have no idea how to get in touch with Ludwig



And as others have said, your music is more than professionally competent. You need a lot of other skills to compose for media, and the best way to learn is to do it. And get paid for it - in any profession, you make the biggest gains in your skills in the first few years of on-the-job experience.


----------



## José Herring

Nothing wrong with getting to know other composers. just don't wait for their blessing to get your own films/tv/games going.


----------



## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> And as others have said, your music is more than professionally competent. You need a lot of other skills to compose for media, and the best way to learn is to do it. And get paid for it - in any profession, you make the biggest gains in your skills in the first few years of on-the-job experience.


Exactly.

@KEM I'm sure there are video companies in your area that need music. Could be an amazing opportunity to cut your teeth, build a real portfolio, and give you some credibility once you sit down with someone important.


----------



## KEM

Bee_Abney said:


> Do you know how to get in touch with anyone who would know how to get in touch with Ludwig? An agent, publisher, colleague?



Well I am friends with Anthony Parnther on Facebook and conducts all of Ludwig’s scores…


----------



## Bee_Abney

KEM said:


> Well I am friends with Anthony Parnther on Facebook and conducts all of Ludwig’s scores…



Then you can raise the matter with him. Carefully - you don't want to scare him off. Sometimes framing it as a request for more general advice can be a good opening. Sometimes it can be better to be clear and quick and get it out of the way.

There is no need to wait before you try, but you may have a greater chance of success once you have a professional track record.

Also, the best outcome will not be Ludwig's email address! But it just might get you mentioned to him if the timing is right, or get you pointed towards some other avenue or opportunity.

Keep your hopes heavily filtered and your confidence and optimism boosted.


----------



## KEM

Maybe I should just apply to USC, Ludwig went there and he turned out ok lol


----------



## José Herring

Pier said:


> Exactly.
> 
> @KEM I'm sure there are video companies in your area that need music. Could be an amazing opportunity to cut your teeth, build a real portfolio, and give you some credibility once you sit down with someone important.


It's good advice. Start where you are and expand.


----------



## Bee_Abney

KEM said:


> Maybe I should just apply to USC, Ludwig went there and he turned out ok lol



Um, probably not the best next step? Now, get a paying gig and pay your taxes!


----------



## José Herring

KEM said:


> Maybe I should just apply to USC, Ludwig went there and he turned out ok lol


If you do, go with the single focus of meeting up and coming filmmakers and scoring films,tv and games through their film department. Don't worry about the music part of it. Maybe learn a little theory but the rest is pure subjective crap that one could get derailed on.


----------



## KEM

José Herring said:


> If you do, go with the single focus of meeting up and coming filmmakers and scoring films,tv and games through their film department. Don't worry about the music part of it. Maybe learn a little theory but the rest is pure subjective crap that one could get derailed on.



In that case I don’t even need to go lol, my friend goes to USC and he’s also a club promoter so he’s very social and meets tons of people, I was just out there about 3 weeks ago and he already had me meet up with one film student there and I’ll be scoring his films, and I told him if any of the other film students in his classes need music that I’ll do it


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## Pier

KEM said:


> Maybe I should just apply to USC, Ludwig went there and he turned out ok lol


IIRC the story I heard Ludwig tell in a podcast is something like... he was producing music for Gambino who introduced him to another director friend who wanted music for a short film. That turned out to be Ryan Coogler who at the time was an unknown, just like Ludwig.

The short film experience went great, so then Ryan made his first feature (Fruitvale Station) and called Ludwig to work with him. Then they made Creed together and the rest is history.

What's the morale of this story? Get out and do stuff. Talk with people.

Until you have a network of contacts and some reputation, opportunities will appear randomly but only if you get out and meet people.


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## KEM

Pier said:


> IIRC the story I heard Ludwig tell in a podcast is something like... he was producing music for Gambino who introduced him to another director friend who wanted music for a short film. That turned out to be Ryan Coogler who at the time was an unknown, just like Ludwig.
> 
> The short film experience went great, so then Ryan made his first feature (Fruitvale Station) and called Ludwig to work with him. Then they made Creed together and the rest is history.
> 
> What's the morale of this story? Get out and do stuff. Talk with people.
> 
> Until you have a network of contacts and some reputation, opportunities will appear randomly but only if you get out and meet people.



Gambino came a bit later actually, Ludwig met Ryan at a frat party when Ryan came up to him and started talking to him about Swedish musicians he liked, then they started working together on student films and the rest is history

He met Gambino when he was acting on Community, Ludwig was the shows composer and Gambino approached him about mixing his songs and they ended up just writing all new music together, and again the rest is history

I basically know Ludwig’s whole life story lol

But your point is correct, it’s all connections, if you guys really think I’m good enough to start working professionally then all I really need to do is put a lot of effort into networking and I’ll get there


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## Baronvonheadless

doctoremmet said:


> Listen to José, Pier & mijn mattie Marcus goddamnit. You and Michael (@Baronvonheadless) are like my two favourite young composers on this entire forum. You guys rock, each in your own sort of domain. You crank out the good stuff, are able to produce your tracks to a beyond-decent level, and know what you want. Go do it! And “it” has to be whatever YOU want it to be. I have a lot of confidence in you Kenneth.


Thanks for the shout out/kind words!


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## Baronvonheadless

My 2 cents. From nearly 20 years in the live music world, seeing those who ‘make it’ Vs ‘not making it’. 

It helps to have a trust fund.


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## NekujaK

Pier said:


> What's the morale of this story? Get out and do stuff. Talk with people.
> 
> Until you have a network of contacts and some reputation, opportunities will appear randomly but only if you get out and meet people.


^^ This ^^

The film making biz and the music biz are very high-touch and hands-on endeavors. All the musicians and composers I know, myself included, got most of their opportunities through personal connections.

Sometimes it's as random as meeting someone at a party, but usually it's a process of planting seeds and cultivating relationships over long periods of time.

Bear in mind that getting a film made is no small feat. I've been in conversations with a pair of directors for over a year now. They both want me to work with them, but they're still raising money and pulling all the logistics together to get their projects off the ground. These things take time, so it's important to get out there and connect with lots of people, so you'll be top of mind when one of their projects actually breaks through and goes into production.

Also... while musical talent and ability are very important for us composers, they're actually not the MOST important thing (gasp!). Yes, you need to be a competent musician, but directors and producers aren't going to hire you because of your inventive chord voicings and counterpoint technique. The fact that we can make decent music is a given - that's just the prerequisite to start the conversation. What's important to filmmakers is what you bring to their project as a human being. Directors pour their entire beings into their films, they are deeply invested and committed to the stories they tell, and they want to work with people who can share and support their vision, and contribute something meaningful. It's not about what you can do, but what you CAN DO FOR THEIR FILM.

And that brings us back to establishing and cultivating personal relationships.


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## KEM

NekujaK said:


> ^^ This ^^
> 
> The film making biz and the music biz are very high-touch and hands-on endeavors. All the musicians and composers I know, myself included, got most of their opportunities through personal connections.
> 
> Sometimes it's as random as meeting someone at a party, but usually it's a process of planting seeds and cultivating relationships over long periods of time.
> 
> Bear in mind that getting a film made is no small feat. I've been in conversations with a pair of directors for over a year now. They both want me to work with them, but they're still raising money and pulling all the logistics together to get their projects off the ground. These things take time, so it's important to get out there and connect with lots of people, so you'll be top of mind when one of their projects actually breaks through and goes into production.
> 
> Also... while musical talent and ability are very important for us composers, they're actually not the MOST important thing (gasp!). Yes, you need to be a competent musician, but directors and producers aren't going to hire you because of your inventive chord voicings and counterpoint technique. The fact that we can make decent music is a given - that's just the prerequisite to start the conversation. What's important to filmmakers is what you bring to their project as a human being. Directors pour their entire beings into their films, they are deeply invested and committed to the stories they tell, and they want to work with people who can share and support their vision, and contribute something meaningful.
> 
> And that brings us back to establishing and cultivating personal relationships.



See the reason I don’t put myself out there is cause I still think I suck and can’t write complex enough music lol


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## NekujaK

KEM said:


> See the reason I don’t put myself out there is cause I still think I suck and can’t write complex enough music lol


I think I suck on most days - and on some days I KNOW I suck  But ultimately, I learned that it doesn't really matter what I think. Just keep doing your craft and go make connections. Remember that filmmakers usually have pretty big egos, it's practically a job requirement. So it's less about your music, and all about them and their vision. If they get a sense that you're genuinely interested in what they're creating, their ears will be open to what you do. They're looking for collaborators, not rock stars.

Oh, and don't let yourself succumb to the musical complexity trap. With the exception of grandoise scores by the likes of John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, etc., a good many film scores are actually very simple. As musicans we think everything we create needs to be on par with Mozart and Beethoven to be good, but that's simply not true.

Directors don't care about musical complexity - they care about emotion and feeling. A lone piano with a cello playing a simple slow melody can evoke more emotion and do more for a film scene than a 90-piece orchestra. Just focus on the emotion and do what sounds good to you. Don't worry about how many notes or how many tracks - that'll just drive you crazy and pull your focus away from what's really important.


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## Pier

KEM said:


> See the reason I don’t put myself out there is cause I still think I suck and can’t write complex enough music lol


People won't hire you because you can write complex music. Most people don't have the capacity to judge music on a technical level.

First and foremost it's because they like working with you, personally. It's your attitude, how you communicate, how you can translate into sound the concepts someone (that knows nothing about music) is asking of you, etc.


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## KEM

NekujaK said:


> I think I suck on most days - and on some days I KNOW I suck  But ultimately, I learned that it doesn't really matter what I think. Just keep doing your craft and go make connections. Remember that filmmakers usually have pretty big egos, it's practically a job requirement. So it's less about your music, and all about them and their vision. If they get a sense that you're genuinely interested in what they're creating, their ears will be open to what you do. They're looking for collaborators, not rock stars.
> 
> Oh, and don't let yourself succumb to the musical complexity trap. With the exception of grandoise scores by the likes of John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, etc., a good many film scores are actually very simple. As musicans we think everything we create needs to be on par with Mozart and Beethoven to be good, but that's simply not true.
> 
> Directors don't care about musical complexity - they care about emotion and feeling. A lone piano with a cello playing a simple slow melody can evoke more emotion and do more for a film scene than a 90-piece orchestra. Just focus on the emotion and do what sounds good to you. Don't worry about how many notes or how many tracks - that'll just drive you crazy and pull your focus away from what's really important.





Pier said:


> People won't hire you because you can write complex music. Most people don't have the capacity to judge music on a technical level.
> 
> First and foremost it's because they like working with you, personally. It's your attitude, how you communicate, how you can translate into sound the concepts someone (that knows nothing about music) is asking of you, etc.



That’s good to hear, I’ve always been pretty social and outgoing, every single job I’ve ever had I’ve always been told something along the lines of “lazy and doesn’t ever do his job but he’s really fun to be around and we like working with him” None of these were music related so obviously I didn’t care to work as hard as I would for something in music but the people skills translate to anything, and I’ve heard Hans say many times that people skills are what get you jobs, so if that can get me somewhere then I guess I already have a leg up in that aspect


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## José Herring

KEM said:


> See the reason I don’t put myself out there is cause I still think I suck and can’t write complex enough music lol


In some warped way if you don't think you suck you really never get any better. But, the thing that keeps me going and that got me started is I heard a bunch of music in film and television and thought, well at least I don't suck as bad as that. 

Seriously hear a bunch of stuff you'll realize that yours can compete. You just got to find your guys like Ludwig found his.


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## rnb_2

rnb_2 said:


> I'm setting up my MacBook Pro, and I noticed when I downloaded my PA installers last night that the Installation Manager now has a selection for "Native M1 Products", so it looks like they're getting ready. There's nothing in that category yet, but it is a sign of progress.


I think I misread things yesterday - PA Installation Manager doesn't actually indicate which plugins are M1 native when you select that option (I thought the 0/150 was an indication that none were). I just got an email from them about the latest update - which is the version I downloaded yesterday - and if you select individual plugins, the description will indicate whether they have M1 support (all exclude AAX, for obvious reasons).

At this point, some of their brands are all Native (Brainworx, Mäag), some don't have any M1 support yet (NEOLD and Unfiltered Audio, among others), and many are mixed. Almost all of SPL's plugins have M1 support (everything except Hawkeye).

Most importantly for the topic at hand, Knif Audio has native support for both of their plugins.


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## KEM

rnb_2 said:


> Most importantly for the topic at hand, Knif Audio has native support for both of their plugins.



Thank the lord I’m so happy


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## Snoobydoobydoo

José Herring said:


> In some warped way if you don't think you suck you really never get any better.


Lies.


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## Pier

José Herring said:


> In some warped way if you don't think you suck you really never get any better.


The more you suck at something, the less you can determine how much you really suck.

People who are confident in their skills are either idiots or absolute masters.

It's a cognitive bias called the Dunning Kruger effect.















Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## MLaudio

Ive been the Director of Sound Design for a Seattle gaming company the last 10 years. As others mentioned, networking is BIG in this industry. Anytime I have brought in help, be it an employee or intern, it has always been within. Meaning, someone i know, or someone recommended by another within the company.

One thing that helped me a lot when i was in school, and i see it has been touched on a bit here, was connecting with students and teachers in the video department, and offering my work when needed. This helped me build up a resume / demo and actually turned into multiple future payed jobs based on those connections.

Fresh out of school and when i was trying to get into the industry full time, I made an effort to connect with artists and animators and plant the seed that I am a sound guy that is one message / text away if needed. That payed off. One of those connections turned into a contract job, which then turned into full time work. All from one interaction I had with an animator.

What i have learned when working with younger talented engineers is that a lot have creative ideas, they just need to learn how to apply it so the user fully appreciates it. A lot of that comes from time and experience.


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## davidson

Silicon native update released!


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## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> The more you suck at something, the less you can determine how much you really suck.
> 
> People who are confident in their skills are either idiots or absolute masters.
> 
> It's a cognitive bias called the Dunning Kruger effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


I'm bigly good at musick!


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## sostenuto

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm bigly good at musick!


..... but not hugely ??


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## KEM

davidson said:


> Silicon native update released!



Just in time for the Mac Studio!!


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## rnb_2

rnb_2 said:


> I think I misread things yesterday - PA Installation Manager doesn't actually indicate which plugins are M1 native when you select that option (I thought the 0/150 was an indication that none were). I just got an email from them about the latest update - which is the version I downloaded yesterday - and if you select individual plugins, the description will indicate whether they have M1 support (all exclude AAX, for obvious reasons).
> 
> At this point, some of their brands are all Native (Brainworx, Mäag), some don't have any M1 support yet (NEOLD and Unfiltered Audio, among others), and many are mixed. Almost all of SPL's plugins have M1 support (everything except Hawkeye).
> 
> Most importantly for the topic at hand, Knif Audio has native support for both of their plugins.


I think things are changing on the back end at PA - if you select M1 Native in the installation manager now, it will drop the number of available plugins from 151 to 105. Unfortunately, there's still no way to select both "My Products" and "M1 Native Products", which complicates things a bit.


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## KEM

rnb_2 said:


> I think things are changing on the back end at PA - if you select M1 Native in the installation manager now, it will drop the number of available plugins from 151 to 105. Unfortunately, there's still no way to select both "My Products" and "M1 Native Products", which complicates things a bit.



As far as I’m aware there’s still no way to see what plugins you’ve already downloaded either, which is annoying, it should automatically show you what plugins you’ve already downloaded when you open the app


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## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> ..... but not hugely ??


Who are you calling fat?! I'm just big boned!


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## Snoobydoobydoo

Bee_Abney said:


> I'm bigly good at musick


Hey me too lets make a band „The Krugers“. The Freddy Krugers with plenty of Knifoniums at hand.


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## Bee_Abney

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Hey me too lets make a band „The Krugers“. The Freddy Krugers with plenty of Knifoniums at hand.


We gotta stay sharp, though, or we might get burned!


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## Snoobydoobydoo

Bee_Abney said:


> We gotta stay sharp, though, or we might get burned!


Worst that could happen is that the audience falls asleep you know. Should save that lullaby for the end maybe.


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## Bee_Abney

Snoobydoobydoo said:


> Worst that could happen is that the audience falls asleep you know. Should save that lullaby for the end maybe.


You're on. Imagine the applause for the big finish 'One, two, Freddy's coming for you...'


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## Snoobydoobydoo

Bee_Abney said:


> You're on. Imagine the applause for the big finish 'One, two, Freddy's coming for you...'


Yea, ok then the 3/4 waltz is dismissed.


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## davidson

rnb_2 said:


> I think things are changing on the back end at PA - if you select M1 Native in the installation manager now, it will drop the number of available plugins from 151 to 105. Unfortunately, there's still no way to select both "My Products" and "M1 Native Products", which complicates things a bit.


Yeah, and like @KEM says, you can't choose to see which products have updates available, or at least I haven't found a way. As far as native downloaders, PA might have one of the worst


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## KEM

davidson said:


> Yeah, and like @KEM says, you can't choose to see which products have updates available, or at least I haven't found a way. As far as native downloaders, PA might have one of the worst



It’s so annoying, they have an enormous plugin list so all they have to do is add a check mark or “installed” label next to the plugins you’ve already downloaded and I’d be totally happy, but instead every time you open up the app you have no idea what you’ve downloaded and what you haven’t unless you can remember off the top of your head or you go deep through your folders to find them


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## muddyblue

just found out with the new update Knif is now ready to rock in Komplete Kontrol !


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## Bee_Abney

muddyblue said:


> just found out with the new update Knif is now ready to rock in Komplete Kontrol !



I think it could before; but if it wasn't for you, I'm glad it is now!


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## sostenuto

KEM said:


> As far as I’m aware there’s still no way to see what plugins you’ve already downloaded either, which is annoying, it should automatically show you what plugins you’ve already downloaded when you open the app


Updated all this morning.
On _ Build Your Installer App now _ has always had "My Products" In Column #2 ( Show: ) 
Also has My Trials _ which is sometimes helpful.

Hope this relates to the specific issue you posted ?


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## doctoremmet

Every time this thread gets bumped I feel a slight positive ripple in the Synth Force and I am reminded I want to program my Knifonium softsynth


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## KEM

sostenuto said:


> Updated all this morning.
> On _ Build Your Installer App now _ has always had "My Products" In Column #2 ( Show: )
> Also has My Trials _ which is sometimes helpful.
> 
> Hope this relates to the specific issue you posted ?



I tried that earlier and it didn’t show me stuff that I’d already installed to my computer


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## sostenuto

KEM said:


> I tried that earlier and it didn’t show me stuff that I’d already installed to my computer


Bad news ! Maybe related to this Update and will be fixed shortly. 
Definitely fine here and was able to Update all (58) products quickly by Selecting 'Select All' at top. 
Best of luck getting sorted !


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## KEM

sostenuto said:


> Bad news ! Maybe related to this Update and will be fixed shortly.
> Definitely fine here and was able to Update all (58) products quickly by Selecting 'Select All' at top.
> Best of luck getting sorted !



Does it actually show you what you’ve already downloaded? Every time I open the app it’s as if I’ve never downloaded anything before


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## sostenuto

All (58) My products displayed but went quickly when Updating today using "Select All". When finished there was_ brief Message confirming_ all updated. Nothing showing that now.


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## Bee_Abney

KEM said:


> Does it actually show you what you’ve already downloaded? Every time I open the app it’s as if I’ve never downloaded anything before



No, it doesn't do that. But you can just install all. It will take longer. Or just install/reinstall what you know you want to use.

As Sostenatu says, simply updating all is fairly quick and will update anything you've already installed.


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## sostenuto

........... also known as Nosferatu. 🦇


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## KEM

Bee_Abney said:


> No, it doesn't do that. But you can just install all. It will take longer. Or just install/reinstall what you know you want to use.
> 
> As Sostenatu says, simply updating all is fairly quick and will update anything you've already installed.



Still annoying lol, I guess I’ll just go through and install all the stuff I know I use already so I have the latest versions


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## Bee_Abney

sostenuto said:


> ........... also known as Nosferatu. 🦇



Sorry about that!!


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## José Herring

KEM said:


> You really think so? I second guess everything lol
> 
> And I get told all the time that I should do trailers or library music but I am just strictly set on scoring films, tv shows, and video games. I’m not completely opposed to the idea since it could advance my career and actually help me get those jobs I want so it might actually be the way to go, but I can’t help but just want to start interning under a Hollywood composer and work my way up


One last thing on this before I go. Took me 15 years to learn this lesson. Focus more on getting it right than getting in complicated. Complicated rarely communicates to people. My new way of thinking is that any idiot can write complicated music, but it takes true genus to make something simple sound right and not stupid. 

It's something that I think every composer struggles with. The need to prove to everybody how smart you are vs. the ability of your music to actually reach the hearts and minds of a public. The former works on intellectual circles the latter works in real life. One can't eat college degrees but he can eat with a hit song or game/film/tv score.

Not to over inflate you or your music because we all have a lot to grow even the most successful of us, but I recognized early on that you had some unique passion for a certain kind of music that may not appeal to "everyone" but certainly can appeal to enough people that you could make a serious go at scoring. And in spite of any bashing from those that don't get it, you managed to improve and stick to what you love. 

There is a certain amount of flexibility that's needed when you're working with a filmmaking team. But, you'll only learn how and when to bend by working with lots of people.


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## KEM

José Herring said:


> One last thing on this before I go. Took me 15 years to learn this lesson. Focus more on getting it right than getting in complicated. Complicated rarely communicates to people. My new way of thinking is that any idiot can write complicated music, but it takes true genus to make something simple sound right and not stupid.
> 
> It's something that I think every composer struggles with. The need to prove to everybody how smart you are vs. the ability of your music to actually reach the hearts and minds of a public. The former works on intellectual circles the latter works in real life. One can't eat college degrees but he can eat with a hit song or game/film/tv score.
> 
> Not to over inflate you or your music because we all have a lot to grow even the most successful of us, but I recognized early on that you had some unique passion for a certain kind of music that may not appeal to "everyone" but certainly can appeal to enough people that you could make a serious go at scoring. And in spite of any bashing from those that don't get it, you managed to improve and stick to what you love.
> 
> There is a certain amount of flexibility that's needed when you're working with a filmmaking team. But, you'll only learn how and when to bend by working with lots of people.



Appreciate it!! And you’re totally right, it’s the simplicity that really grabs everybody, and sometimes that can be even harder to write than the complex stuff, Zimmer has certainly proven how effective a simple idea can be

I guess I got lucky in that I have been able to develop a recognizable “sound” for myself, and that’s definitely not a brag, it was never an intentional thing, I just happen to have very modern influences that range from a wide variety of genres, like my two favorite artists of all time are Kanye West and Bring Me The Horizon, both of whom started in the mid 2000s and make drastically different music, and my idea was to combine both of them and create film scores with that amalgamation, and luckily it’s stuck with people so far, so if I can find filmmakers that want that sound then I can definitely carve out of my own place in the industry


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## José Herring

KEM said:


> Appreciate it!! And you’re totally right, it’s the simplicity that really grabs everybody, and sometimes that can be even harder to write than the complex stuff, Zimmer has certainly proven how effective a simple idea can be
> 
> I guess I got lucky in that I have been able to develop a recognizable “sound” for myself, and that’s definitely not a brag, it was never an intentional thing, I just happen to have very modern influences that range from a wide variety of genres, like my two favorite artists of all time are Kanye West and Bring Me The Horizon, both of whom started in the mid 2000s and make drastically different music, and my idea was to combine both of them and create film scores with that amalgamation, and luckily it’s stuck with people so far, so if I can find filmmakers that want that sound then I can definitely carve out of my own place in the industry


It's a good time for new stuff because right now there's no definitive film aesthetic like there has been in the past. Before it was either orchestrally John Williams or Hybrid HZ stuff.

With the success of the new Batman movie we've got basically a classical romantic score with the end credits being an actual full blown piano sonata. We have the success of Dune which I think I heard some strings in there now and again mostly it was a full on full blown synth score. And the success of Venom2 with Marco B's throw back to Bernard Herrman. It's a wild time in which anything goes. Where there's no clear "this is hip" or this is what's "in" happening.


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## Marcus Millfield

doctoremmet said:


> Every time this thread gets bumped I feel a slight positive ripple in the Synth Force and I am reminded I want to program my Knifonium softsynth


----------

