# Action-Music Course - Lessons 1-3



## Ludwig (Apr 5, 2021)

With the re-launch of Film Music Notes, we are excited to announce our very first online course, Action-Music Harmony in Classic Blockbuster Films. What's in the course? Watch the video below and find out more on the course page, where you can view lesson contents, watch a lesson preview, and enroll in the course!




*Please Note: *

To avoid copyright infringement, this course contains *no score excerpts or audio from film scores*. Students are directed to find and listen to soundtrack excerpts while the course content consists of:

1. *Music theory* connecting the techniques to be discussed
2.* Analysis* describing the techniques behind Williams excerpts
3. *Composition tutorials* applying the techniques to original compositions, and
4. *Composition exercises* comprising abstract scales, chords, and original music


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## Eric G (Apr 5, 2021)

Ludwig said:


> With the re-launch of Film Music Notes, we are excited to announce our very first online course, Action-Music Harmony in the Style of John Williams. What's in the course? Watch the video below and find out more on the course page, where you can view lesson contents, watch a lesson preview, and enroll in the course!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just bought and WOW! PLEASE KEEP THEM COMING!


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## axb312 (Apr 5, 2021)

Interesting but expensive...


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## Akcel (Apr 5, 2021)

What's the prerequises knowledges to follow this course?


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## Rob Burnley (Apr 5, 2021)

Does this price include the upcoming lessons as well?


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## DANIELE (Apr 6, 2021)

Rob Burnley said:


> Does this price include the upcoming lessons as well?


I have the same question but I think the upcoming lessons are other courses and that this course is complete as it is.


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## Haakond (Apr 6, 2021)

This is perfect, and exactly what I need. How long will the intro sale run?


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## Ludwig (Apr 6, 2021)

Akcel said:


> What's the prerequises knowledges to follow this course?


An ability to read notated music and understand intervals like major 3rd, perfect 5th, etc. Apart from that, I don't assume knowledge of the chords or scales discussed. They're all explained in the course.


Haakond said:


> This is perfect, and exactly what I need. How long will the intro sale run?


Kind of depends on how things go. At least this month for sure, though. I'll put out a reminder here before any changes.


Rob Burnley said:


> Does this price include the upcoming lessons as well?


The price includes the 6.5 hours of these 3 lessons, which are self-contained. Other lessons will be the same in that respect, so may be thought of as something like a curriculum of separate courses, like Harmony 1, Harmony 2, etc.


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## gst98 (Apr 6, 2021)

Just wanted to say how great this is to anyone on the fence. I've almost finished the first section and it is already absolutely brilliant. Everything is explained so clearly and thoroughly despite the complicated topics. The website layout is fantastic - easy to navigate around sections and topics. It really is demystifying some intimidating writing. If you're going to take notes and/or put into practice things as you go it will take _a lot_ longer than 6.5 hours to complete. (And those 6.5 hrs are concise with no rambling)

At first, I thought it sounded expensive, but I was completely wrong because now I feel like I've underpaid for this invaluable knowledge. Future courses in this series will be an instant buy. 

There are so many courses being made now by those who do not possess the knowledge or experience that they should before they should be teaching and who bloat their lesson time by leaving things unedited, and here is an affordable course by somehow who clearly has immense knowledge on the topic. You'd be crazy not to enroll!


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## ed buller (Apr 6, 2021)

Yeah this really IS the holy grail. Again for anyone on the fence, just think of it this way; We pay good money for samples that we think have that "Sound"...but it's really the gaps between the notes, The intervals and how they make up the Language of what we hear that is vital. Most of us are happy to admit that John Williams ,Jerry Goldsmith , Alan Silvestri and a few others have a command of a harmonic language that seems sometimes impenetrable. but it isn't...we just don't know or understand it or how it's applied. Sure we pick up bits..here and there, but this course literally shows you note by note HOW it's constructed and the Logic that goes into it. To me, before this course the notes from many great cues made sense when I heard them, but when I literally went in and picked them out...one by one...i'd go HUH !!!!!..................now I don't. AND now I can write music that has the same harmonic flavour.

In all honesty that was priceless !


best

ed


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## Nova (Apr 6, 2021)

This looks amazing. I'm literally throwing money at the screen.


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## CT (Apr 6, 2021)

gst98 said:


> There are so many courses being made now by those who do not possess the knowledge or experience that they should before they should be teaching and who bloat their lesson time by leaving things unedited, and here is an affordable course by somehow who clearly has immense knowledge on the topic. You'd be crazy not to enroll!


Yeah from the look of it I have to agree. I am often critical of "courses" for this reason, but this one appears to be the real deal! Very cool.


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## davidson (Apr 6, 2021)

This looks well executed, nice job!

Williams action scene cues have never been something I choose to listen to (sacrilege!), I much prefer his more melodic cues. Do you have any plans on focusing on that side of things in the future?


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## Ludwig (Apr 6, 2021)

davidson said:


> This looks well executed, nice job!
> 
> Williams action scene cues have never been something I choose to listen to (sacrilege!), I much prefer his more melodic cues. Do you have any plans on focusing on that side of things in the future?


Funny you mention that. Theme-writing (not specifically Williams, but he'd be included) is actually another idea I have for a course. I haven't mentioned it on the site because it would probably be next year. But who knows, if enough people say they'd like to see it, maybe I'll move it up the schedule. I've already had another member mention it to me.


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## DANIELE (Apr 6, 2021)

Ludwig said:


> Kind of depends on how things go. At least this month for sure, though. I'll put out a reminder here before any changes.


Great to know, I have to wait for the job payment to buy the course.


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## DANIELE (Apr 7, 2021)

ed buller said:


> Yeah this really IS the holy grail. Again for anyone on the fence, just think of it this way; We pay good money for samples that we think have that "Sound"...but it's really the gaps between the notes, The intervals and how they make up the Language of what we hear that is vital. Most of us are happy to admit that John Williams ,Jerry Goldsmith , Alan Silvestri and a few others have a command of a harmonic language that seems sometimes impenetrable. but it isn't...we just don't know or understand it or how it's applied. Sure we pick up bits..here and there, but this course literally shows you note by note HOW it's constructed and the Logic that goes into it. To me, before this course the notes from many great cues made sense when I heard them, but when I literally went in and picked them out...one by one...i'd go HUH !!!!!..................now I don't. AND now I can write music that has the same harmonic flavour.
> 
> In all honesty that was priceless !
> 
> ...


My last track is based on John Williams writing and I struggled a lot to finish the job, I literally studied a lot of scores from him to understand the "rules" behind them (I used the octatonic scale in some arpeggios) and I think I got a pretty good result, if you are telling me that this course will definitely open the doors about all the secrets I need I'm in.


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## ed buller (Apr 7, 2021)

DANIELE said:


> My last track is based on John Williams writing and I struggled a lot to finish the job, I literally studied a lot of scores from him to understand the "rules" behind them (I used the octatonic scale in some arpeggios) and I think I got a pretty good result, if you are telling me that this course will definitely open the doors about all the secrets I need I'm in.


yes it will. It's not just using the scale but how it's broken up into "sets". What those do and how in some instances the vertical harmony is varied from "the Alpha chord" and also how all the Octatonic scales ( and their modes ) are used. It's very complex and a little counter intuitive. Basically a lot of separate techniques that need to be applied. The lessons are very thorough. He tends to pick a small segment of williams's writing then anayslise it. Then the next lesson will use those techniques to construct a new piece of music so you really absorb what you just learned. He's an excellent teacher having 10 years or so at various university....so you WILL absorb it. That's the best bit...just trying these techniques out...big grin moment !

This is an extract from Harry Potter. 
View attachment Buckwheat.mp3


so If,like me, you'd hear this and go...."whaaaaaaaattttttt". Yes it's octatonic but where is the logic and form ? It Can't be random. Dudes like Johnny Williams Don't do RANDOM....and you'd be right. In Lesson 3b-2:





it gets analysed . In very great detail !...and it's NOT guesswork. It's actually very clearly established 20th Century techniques used by Bartok and others. Then he will make a new segment with the materials so you get it......

freaking Priceless !!!!


best

e


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## Jotto (Apr 7, 2021)

i would have bought lesson one as a start at this very moment, if that was an option. I bet the Three lessons are worth it, but to me at this time..its to expensive


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## Eric G (Apr 7, 2021)

Ludwig said:


> Funny you mention that. Theme-writing (not specifically Williams, but he'd be included) is actually another idea I have for a course. I haven't mentioned it on the site because it would probably be next year. But who knows, if enough people say they'd like to see it, maybe I'll move it up the schedule. I've already had another member mention it to me.


That member was me 

And for those of you who aren't familiar with Mark's work, he wrote THE research paper on John Williams's composition style and his use of variation in themes. I don't think the paper is available for free but its worth paying for it like his courses. If he writes a course based on this, it's an instabuy.









The Use of Variation in John Williams's Film Music Themes


John Williams is perhaps best known for his film music themes, most of which are based on eight-bar models that divide into discernible halves of 4+4 bars, each half usually containing two short ideas of two bars each. Though this type of thematic



www.academia.edu


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## Wolf68 (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm impressed. great teaching work. might be I'll join, too...


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## Ludwig (Apr 8, 2021)

Wolf68 said:


> I'm impressed. great teaching work. might be I'll join, too...


Thank you, sir!


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## Eric G (Apr 8, 2021)

Eric G said:


> That member was me
> 
> And for those of you who aren't familiar with Mark's work, he wrote THE research paper on John Williams's composition style and his use of variation in themes. I don't think the paper is available for free but its worth paying for it like his courses. If he writes a course based on this, it's an instabuy.
> 
> ...


Correction, it should be free if you register.









The Use of Variation in John Williams's Film Music Themes


John Williams is perhaps best known for his film music themes, most of which are based on eight-bar models that divide into discernible halves of 4+4 bars, each half usually containing two short ideas of two bars each. Though this type of thematic



www.academia.edu


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## davidanthony (Apr 8, 2021)

Eric G said:


> Correction, it should be free if you register.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just clicked "read paper" (below download PDF) and the whole thing popped up, no registration necessary.

Great read, thanks for sharing!


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## Oakran (Apr 8, 2021)

It seems super interesting and I'm seriously considering buying the course.
I did write some action cues inspired by Williams in the past but it was totally random and without any knowledge of octatonic scales whatsoever. I'd be really curious to learn the concrete techniques behind it.
Ultimately we should all strive for this kind of knowledge. The more you know your craft in depth the more you can free yourself from mindless writing/repeating the few basic techniques that you understand well.


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## Eric G (Apr 8, 2021)

Oakran said:


> It seems super interesting and I'm seriously considering buying the course.
> I did write some action cues inspired by Williams in the past but it was totally random and without any knowledge of octatonic scales whatsoever. I'd be really curious to learn the concrete techniques behind it.
> Ultimately we should all strive for this kind of knowledge. The more you know your craft in depth the more you can free yourself from mindless writing/repeating the few basic techniques that you understand well.


Right, so have I. But it's all about control and that is what this course is doing for me, allowing me to be in control of my composing in a next-level way. Which also makes it repeatable.


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## Drumdude2112 (Apr 11, 2021)

Purchased, LOVE IT .
SO well implemented...When can we expect the next module to drop ?
Congrats on an awesome (and highly needed ) course 👏


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## Gingerbread (Apr 11, 2021)

Excellent class so far! Very glad I got it!

One question: it seems like the forum isn't working (?). That's an issue for me, mainly since I think that's presumably the only way to check the answers to the Exercise questions. Or is there another way to check the answers?


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## Ludwig (Apr 11, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> Purchased, LOVE IT .
> SO well implemented...When can we expect the next module to drop ?
> Congrats on an awesome (and highly needed ) course 👏


Thank you! I can't make any firm promises, but I'm aiming for a couple of months, so I hope to have it ready in June.


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## Ludwig (Apr 11, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> Excellent class so far! Very glad I got it!
> 
> One question: it seems like the forum isn't working (?). That's an issue for me, mainly since I think that's presumably the only way to check the answers to the Exercise questions. Or is there another way to check the answers?


Thank you as well!

Hmm, why don't you PM me or email me your username and what happens when you try the forum and we'll go from there.


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## Ludwig (Apr 11, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> Excellent class so far! Very glad I got it!
> 
> One question: it seems like the forum isn't working (?). That's an issue for me, mainly since I think that's presumably the only way to check the answers to the Exercise questions. Or is there another way to check the answers?


Actually, I think I fixed it now. Give it a go and see if you can enter any thread.


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## TonalDynamics (Apr 11, 2021)

ngl, I initially read the title of this thread as 'John William's Curse: Lessons 1-3'


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## Gingerbread (Apr 11, 2021)

Ludwig said:


> Actually, I think I fixed it now. Give it a go and see if you can enter any thread.


Yep, it's working now, thanks!


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## DennyB (Apr 11, 2021)

Super cool course, really enjoying it. Thank you for making it.


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## Ludwig (Apr 12, 2021)

Gingerbread said:


> Yep, it's working now, thanks!


Answers to Lesson 1 exercises are now available in the Lessons 1-3 forum under "Composition Exercises". Answers to the other lessons coming soon!



DennyB said:


> Super cool course, really enjoying it. Thank you for making it.


I'm very glad to hear it! Thank you for the kind words.


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## DANIELE (Apr 13, 2021)

I started the course and I love the teaching method. The teacher is very straight and on point, I'm still at the first lessons but I think I finally found another favorite teacher as well as Alan Mayrands a while ago.

I'm loving this course and I hope to see more in the future, I like so much the fact that in some way it is an advanced course that explain how to use some advanced techniques.
I hope to see something more about melodic themes too. Maybe the use of modal scales focused on well known themes and so on...

Thank you @Ludwig.


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## Zookes (Apr 16, 2021)

Has anyone used this to make something yet...?
Collecting knowledge is OK. Using it is what interests me tho and the example from the website does not seem usable...


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## Eric G (Apr 18, 2021)

Zookes said:


> Has anyone used this to make something yet...?
> Collecting knowledge is OK. Using it is what interests me tho and the example from the website does not seem usable...


Remember there are in total 12 lessons. So I don't expect to create complete JW style works in 3 lessons. Lessons 1-3 are foundational and building blocks with small passages (4-6 bars) and at the end of lesson 3 just start to give you enough to do longer passages (6-8 bars). I am waiting for Lessons 4-6 to start putting together larger passages. For me, I am loving the incremental approach. Frankly, if I could buy a course for a hundred bucks and sound like John Williams in a week, I would be hugely disappointed and have a much lower opinion of JW.

And the examples are not fully orchestrated (the course is named Action Music HARMONY), so you need some instrumentation knowledge and likely some Study Scores to examine JW instrumentation choices in Action-oriented cues. I have the Star Wars, Indiana Jones study scores that help with that.


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## James Semple (Apr 19, 2021)

I'm really enjoying the course so far. After completing lesson 1 I decided to try and quickly create a cue to explore what I've learned.

Imagine music from a family adventure movie. Initially they are creeping around, they discover something shocking, then there's a chase!



Everything in this example is derived from a single octatonic scale (Octatonic scale 1 for those taking the course). I'm using a couple of harmonies derived from Alpha chords towards the end of the piece.

The entire cue was done quite quickly and I used Abbey Road ONE for the whole thing so I could focus on the writing.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 1, 2021)

I loved it, was basically a master class for octonic harmony.

I'll be honest I didn't do any of the practice things, just mostly went through the course at my leisure over a few days. That said, this sketch on just a piano track in my daw - took just under an hour.

On one hand its kind of incoherent - mainly because I didn't work out any real motif/subjects, just kind of winged it as I went.
View attachment actionclass.mp3


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## Ludwig (May 2, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I loved it, was basically a master class for octonic harmony.
> 
> I'll be honest I didn't do any of the practice things, just mostly went through the course at my leisure over a few days. That said, this sketch on just a piano track in my daw - took just under an hour.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your piece here! Despite being done in a short time, it's got some pretty cool things going on, especially the use of harmonies from octatonic 2 (Gm, Em) to harmonize the melody, which is kept in octatonic 1. And I do hear a loosely use of motivic material too, with the (014) chord - I hear two in a row at one point, F#-Bb-A, A-C#-C. And you throw in (013) as a nice variation of the chord as well, as in F-G-E. Nice job!


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## ProfoundSilence (May 2, 2021)

I liked to think of it as moving up inversions as something that I'd normally be doing with triads... don't want to think clusters have to be boring!

the real fun will be trying to rationalize something like horn fiths perverted by octotonic madness.

so you've got 0811 - then 014 you could squeeze in between that gap - then you could travel up or down to a new 0811 root. Using inversions increases the fun of this.

I had to cut the mic off a little early, nephew showed up and started talking to me in the background.

I'm totally obsessed with harmony, so this was a great course - another way to create harmonic and melodic flavors.


View attachment AfterClassChat.mp3



I'll have to share this on the other forum too! Yes, I'm terrible at piano! but it does include some octotonic bluesy improv


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## ProfoundSilence (May 2, 2021)

also worth mentioning, I think the sneakiest application of the 034 harmonically was here hiding in the bass. My literal thoughts were : I need something for this bass here... I haven't used 034 much, lets' reference that. Didn't really feel like an 034, just how I decided which 2 minor thirds out of the billion hiding in octotonic.





for the sake of development based on 034 in the bass, if I mute everything but the melody there(so it's less busy) and Add some 034 references melodically/motivically it sounds like this:


View attachment BassDeveloped.mp3


and the piano roll:


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## ProfoundSilence (May 3, 2021)

@Ludwig 

Somehow I managed to completely not realize that I'd only done less than one out of three LOL. 

Looks like I'll have to expand my piano sketch after all. Which is fine because to be quite honest after a few listens I find myself humming it while I'm at work.


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## Ludwig (May 4, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> @Ludwig
> 
> Somehow I managed to completely not realize that I'd only done less than one out of three LOL.
> 
> Looks like I'll have to expand my piano sketch after all. Which is fine because to be quite honest after a few listens I find myself humming it while I'm at work.


No problem! It sounds like you've already got the idea of assimilating the material and adapting it to your own sensibilities. By the way, I like the two-chord sequence you created in the real-time recording above by transposing in 3rds. I think it really exploits the features of the octatonic scale very well and sounds quite coherent.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 4, 2021)

Ludwig said:


> No problem! It sounds like you've already got the idea of assimilating the material and adapting it to your own sensibilities. By the way, I like the two-chord sequence you created in the real-time recording above by transposing in 3rds. I think it really exploits the features of the octatonic scale very well and sounds quite coherent.


now If I could just figure out how to take every 15-30 second scratched out idea and turn it into a single cohesive work, along with... idk actually orchestrating it XD. 

I'll get there, it's a journey not a race.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 5, 2021)

For people who've bought the class; I've just finished 1c from lesson 2(octotonic scale runs) and it got me thinking, so I posted a video exploring some of the possibilities. 

As I stated in the video - it's kind of exciting how easily you can use all 3 octotonic scales over almost anything(including the same phrase). Couple this with the fact that there are 4 "leading tones" in each octotonic and each octotonic shares 50% of it's notes with each of the other 2 octotonics - it's an insanely powerful tool for modulation(and interest). 

I expanded the example Mark provides of his own - and I think you'll enjoy it.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 5, 2021)

Here's that example(I worked on it a little more afterwards since I was going to take the time to render)

It's a little quick - but it's the concept that matters.


View attachment Lesson2-1c-Practice.mp3



Also, this time I've attached the Midi


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## Drumdude2112 (May 5, 2021)

Dude GREAT stuff thanks for taking the time to do that !
Working through the course and loving it.
I think you just spun my head around with your piano sketches lol 😂


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## YaniDee (May 5, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> so I posted a video exploring some of the possibilities.


Link to video?


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## ProfoundSilence (May 5, 2021)

YaniDee said:


> Link to video?


Since it had @Ludwig 's example at the start of it - I decided not posting it publically was a safer bet. That, and I out of respect for him - I'm trying not to give away the bread and butter of the course.

There's some things in there that are more or less based on his own work/deductions studying williams/ect - and I'm just being a little careful with his IP not out of fear, but out of respect. I'll just say that this is one of my favorite educational purchases in a while - and I would hate to give away enough information for people to think they can skip the class. It would be a disservice to the concepts... especially since he also goes out of his way to give time stamped examples for these things in actual williams' scores - that show the flexible/varied nature of the theoretical material.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 5, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> I think you just spun my head around with your piano sketches


I'm notoriously bad at doing homework. I skated by most of schooling doing the absolute minimum homework to pass, and just relied on getting 100s' on the tests and it drove my teachers mad. 

so when I get a moment I try to test some of the concepts out after I do a few courses... honestly I have my keyboard armed while watching it - often times I practice the concepts while the video's running, so when I sit down to try some of these things out it ends up being more practical for me than doing homework. 

that said though - lots of 0134's in the midi I dropped in there.


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## Drumdude2112 (May 5, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I'm notoriously bad at doing homework. I skated by most of schooling doing the absolute minimum homework to pass, and just relied on getting 100s' on the tests and it drove my teachers mad.
> 
> so when I get a moment I try to test some of the concepts out after I do a few courses... honestly I have my keyboard armed while watching it - often times I practice the concepts while the video's running, so when I sit down to try some of these things out it ends up being more practical for me than doing homework.
> 
> that said though - lots of 0134's in the midi I dropped in there.


I hear ya !!...At the risk of sounding greedy any chance of posting the midi on your longer piano sketch ?
i'd love to study it , i'm still trying to break through from writing little octotonic 'fragments' and coming up with longer pieces.
The ideas in this style of writing arent 'coming to me' so easily lol (if that makes sense) 
The course has been amazing, one of my best educational purchases for sure!
thanks again man !


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## ProfoundSilence (May 5, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> I hear ya !!...At the risk of sounding greedy any chance of posting the midi on your longer piano sketch ?
> i'd love to study it , i'm still trying to break through from writing little octotonic 'fragments' and coming up with longer pieces.
> The ideas in this style of writing arent 'coming to me' so easily lol (if that makes sense)
> The course has been amazing, one of my best educational purchases for sure!
> thanks again man !


I can post the first one, no problem.


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## Drumdude2112 (May 5, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I can post the first one, no problem.


You Da' Man 😁👍🏻


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## ProfoundSilence (May 5, 2021)

Drumdude2112 said:


> You Da' Man 😁👍🏻


no problem, as a hobbyist I mostly learn for my own enjoyment - happy to help others learn. As far as drawing out material, a good course on motivic writing (like scoreclub.net) is a good place to start, then learning to find melodic material in harmony, and vice versa. 

then as you write things for function, you accidently create more motivic material to develop. In the first sketch, the first run I added was the very first one - and part of the problem was I felt it was too generic of a run, and since the ostinato's melodic movement hadn't taken place I figured it was a good time to spice it up... I decided I wanted something that accented beats 3 and 4(with the bass) to keep the whole movement feeling more unbalanced(a good way to start momentum). so that first little rhythm from that run ended up being an accidental motif.(i.e. motif #2) so later on I use that rythmic motif as a pair of minor 3rds to create a sort of "call and response" to the Major chord planeing triads based on the ostinato. 

Then, as was discussed - the more developed bass line towards the end of the piece is built from the 034. 

that's the frustrating part of music to me... I see patterns so easily - and once I have material I can come up with all sorts of new ways to use it, but often times It feels impossible starting from nothing.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 6, 2021)

I played around orchestrating the sketch a little.

that last part needs to be changed completely(or removed) but all in all - just wanted to see how it would translate


View attachment ActionSketchOrch.mp3


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## Drumdude2112 (May 6, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> no problem, as a hobbyist I mostly learn for my own enjoyment - happy to help others learn. As far as drawing out material, a good course on motivic writing (like scoreclub.net) is a good place to start, then learning to find melodic material in harmony, and vice versa.


Agreed scoreclub is fantastic , i took it for quite a while


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## MauroPantin (May 6, 2021)

It's nuts how these examples sound so on point for Williams when orchestrated, and so like the solo piano guy for silent films on a Buster Keaton movie when just sketched out and removed from the orchestra. I've got more educational material that I can handle right now, but I'm super tempted to dive in, this seems like great stuff!


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## Soundbed (May 6, 2021)

So glad I stumbled on this thread! I’ve been eyeing this course for a while and wasn’t sure it would be for me. I’ve written with the octatonic scale (and they’ve gotten on tv) but looking forward to actually doing something with harmony and not only stringing scales and clusters together and inverting them without a real sense of purpose ... heading to buy it now.


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## Eric G (May 6, 2021)

Soundbed said:


> So glad I stumbled on this thread! I’ve been eyeing this course for a while and wasn’t sure it would be for me. I’ve written with the octatonic scale (and they’ve gotten on tv) but looking forward to actually doing something with harmony and not only stringing scales and clusters together and inverting them without a real sense of purpose ... heading to buy it now.


You are going to love it. You will listen to a lesson, pull out a study score (if you can read notation) and you won't read his scores the same again. Seriously. In addition, I have created a playlist of all his action cues across all his movies and then you can start hearing the orchestration and rhythm patterns. But it all starts with his harmony.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 6, 2021)

MauroPantin said:


> and so like the solo piano guy for silent films


to be fair, with the kind of writing I used to do - I used to get this comment all of the time. Coincidently, never seen much silent film stuff - I think it might just be what happens when people who write metal decide to put the guitar down haha. 

Ofcourse this course might help enhance my silent film vibe, just wanted to point out that this might be an element independent from the source material.


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## MauroPantin (May 6, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> what happens when people who write metal decide to put the guitar down


Lol! Spent my teenage years blasting Megadeth and Metallica. I might end up experiencing a similar outcome. I'm sure I'll bite this month or the next, at the latest. This is just too interesting to pass up.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 6, 2021)

MauroPantin said:


> Lol! Spent my teenage years blasting Megadeth and Metallica. I might end up experiencing a similar outcome.


Talk about irony though... many years as a metal drummer - and percussion is way harder for me to orchestrate than woodwinds

:/

proof - the updated version has more percussion and I'm probably less happy with it.


View attachment ActionSketchOrch3.mp3


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## jbuhler (May 6, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> to be fair, with the kind of writing I used to do - I used to get this comment all of the time. Coincidently, never seen much silent film stuff - I think it might just be what happens when people who write metal decide to put the guitar down haha.
> 
> Ofcourse this course might help enhance my silent film vibe, just wanted to point out that this might be an element independent from the source material.


The piano version did sound a bit like a silent era hurry, but composers of photoplay music didn't use a whole lot of octatonicism in that era. It's more the rhythmic organization, especially the repeated-note, drumming patterns and how they fell with the phrasing that created the similarity.


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## ProfoundSilence (May 6, 2021)

jbuhler said:


> The piano version did sound a bit like a silent era hurry, but composers of photoplay music didn't use a whole lot of octatonicism in that era. It's more the rhythmic organization, especially the repeated-note, drumming patterns and how they fell with the phrasing that created the similarity.



I'm not a very good pianist, so it's much easier for me to repeat the notes I'm already playing XD or rather I'm not very creative with writing on the keyboard so it probably influences how I write(not that I'm unhappy with some of my piano born ideas)


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## jbuhler (May 6, 2021)

ProfoundSilence said:


> I'm not a very good pianist, so it's much easier for me to repeat the notes I'm already playing XD or rather I'm not very creative with writing on the keyboard so it probably influences how I write(not that I'm unhappy with some of my piano born ideas)


It fits the genre!


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## ProfoundSilence (May 8, 2021)

(might want lower the volume)

very little time to continue the course at the moment, so I'm inching along maybe 10-20 minutes a night, but I couldn't let that go. "That's a familiar sound" - yes, as a guy who's profile picture is D.S. it's quite familiar

View attachment ActionSketchAbbey3.mp3


my sketch from before didn't really get expanded, but I did swap out a few bits of percussion and messed with balance a little, as well as trimmed off a little excess perc(so I think it sounds better?)


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## DivingInSpace (May 9, 2021)

Watched the preview and holy shit, this course seems amazing. I'll definitely be getting it


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## NoamL (Aug 8, 2021)

I'm about 2/3rds of the way through this and it's really high quality.  Thank you to @ed buller 's recommendation!

There are various chord shapes and ideas that I picked up from JW score study over the years, for example he will often use a major chord over its own b9 (Ab B D G for instance), and various other shapes. Within the first couple hours of this course I started understanding how some of those ideas that I conceived of as standalone "Williams-isms" are actually related to each other, belonging to an overall systematic approach to writing. @Ludwig uses lots of score examples to demonstrate how JW really is using these concepts systematically.

Jerry Goldsmith, Alan Silvestri and Basil Poledouris also use the "flavors" of these harmonies in their music so if you're a fan of any of those composers, you'll be able to hear a connection between this course and their music.

Before buying the course I had some qualms, thinking* "Yeah I know about octatonic harmony already" *- the basics like rotational symmetry, the relationship to the diminished 7th chord, the fact that the scale can populate 4 major and minor chords etc. This course goes well beyond that into concepts I haven't heard of before. This is really some mind expanding stuff as it has changed the way I look at consonance and dissonance and also the relationship between dissonance-intensity and the internal voicings of chords.

There are quizzes & composition exercises to go with the course, and this really is *"a course"*, NOT in the same league as those "music guru" products out there that are more like a composer holding a webinar / improvisational talk in front of their piano or DAW. This is 6 hours of college level lectures with theory background, examining score examples, and then applying them to short composition exercises and examples. It's accessible with a good amount of repetition & clear explanations, but there's definitely a lot to chew on here and it's a good idea to just jam with the ideas for a while after every lesson and not rush through the course.

There's so much material out there aimed at "beginning composers" that it's very gratifying that this course is aimed more at the "intermediate composer." The first couple lessons establish some basics so that in theory just about anybody could follow along with this course from beginning to end, but to be honest I am skeptical of that. In practice people who are already comfortable reading sheet music, have beginner piano skills, know the basics of music theory & classical harmony, and have some experience critically listening & transcribing music by ear, are at the level that this course would benefit. Don't let that dissuade you if you really want to learn these concepts though, I guess!


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## ProfoundSilence (Aug 8, 2021)

NoamL said:


> I'm about 2/3rds of the way through this and it's really high quality.  Thank you to @ed buller 's recommendation!
> 
> There are various chord shapes and ideas that I picked up from JW score study over the years, for example he will often use a major chord over its own b9 (Ab B D G for instance), and various other shapes. Within the first couple hours of this course I started understanding how some of those ideas that I conceived of as standalone "Williams-isms" are actually related to each other, belonging to an overall systematic approach to writing. @Ludwig uses lots of score examples to demonstrate how JW really is using these concepts systematically.
> 
> ...




Told you, solid gold


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## MauroPantin (Aug 12, 2021)

Just finished the course a yesterday. I can't say enough good things, and I don't think I can write better praise than what the guys have already posted. I just want to vouch for it as well. Going back to study JW scores will not be the same. In my head I had this collection of "JW sounding gestures" that I can now make sense of and it feels fantastic. 

Can't wait for Lessons 4-6!


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## Haakond (Aug 17, 2021)

Bought this course yesterday, and I watched one part just to check it out. Ended up with sitting 2 hours. This is absolutely great learning material, and Mark is a splendid teacher.

Well spent money!

EDIT: Also, I just wanna say thanks for adding exercises as well. So many great courses out there, but you only remember the half of it. With the exercises, you are able to interpret it better and reflect on what you actually are learning


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## Henu (Aug 19, 2021)

DivingInSpace said:


> Watched the preview and holy shit, this course seems amazing. I'll definitely be getting it


Happened to me as well, already 41% done during the morning now. :D

Incredibly well explained stuff with very good examples and excercises! I especially have loved the "quick composing" parts thus far. This course is totally worth the money already for me and I'll definitely get the upcoming ones as well. Like the others said, if you're on the fence, get it and you'll thank yourself later.

EDIT: 41% my ass....that was the 41% of the FIRST LESSON OUT OF THREE. Holy shit. So please take the compliments I wrote and threefold them, haha!


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## Mitchell Gibbs (Aug 19, 2021)

I really enjoyed this course! It really inspired my most recent feature film soundtrack. Especially with the use of alpha chords and octatonic scales.

The action sequence in this cue is all octatonic and alpha chords (2:00 onwards).




I'm looking forward to the next lessons!


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## DivingInSpace (Aug 19, 2021)

Henu said:


> Happened to me as well, already 41% done during the morning


Well Thanks, now i remembered and bought it too haha


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