# Starship Troopers - Music for the franchise



## SamiMatar (Jan 3, 2013)

Hi all,
I recently did a little work for an upcoming product from the Starship Troopers franchise. Much of the music I wrote was rejected on the grounds of being "too orchestral". I've had this happen enough times in the last year to make me think: I'm either a crappy composer or I'm just stuck in my ways, or both.

Anyway I've sown together some of the rejected pieces, and here they are. Enjoy!

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F73535736&secret_url=false[/flash]

https://soundcloud.com/sami-matar/starship-troopers-sami-matar


----------



## ryans (Jan 3, 2013)

Well, I like what you've done...

Basil Poledouris's score for the original movie was pretty "orchestral" (although satirical in nature)... maybe they want to distance this project from that style.

Ryan


----------



## The White Knight (Jan 4, 2013)

Hang on

don't fall in the formatted crap of our decade

create "old fashion" music today is an act of resistance and, paradoxically, allows you to be original.


----------



## Lex (Jan 4, 2013)

These days "too orchestral" usually means "too complex" or sometimes "..but where are the triads?". 

I dont think you are crappy composer, I think you have serious chops, but might happen that simply the music didn't fit the projects. To be honest if I think about Starship Trooper franchise in last 5-6 years it doesn't really make me think "20th century concert music" or Jerry Goldsmith....it could...and it would be great...but obviously it would be a very hard sell to make..

Alex


----------



## SamiMatar (Jan 4, 2013)

@ryans They did, and although I get them what they want in the end, its disappointing to see a producer/director love your idea but they feel the simpler stuff works better nowadays. More and more, I'm seeing producers and directors go for the "chuga chuga chuga" and "duba duba duba " type music throughout the entire scene. I feel like there's less and less room for good old kick ass action music.

@The White Knight Yea but I can only push what I want with boss man so far. I'll just have to keep releasing my music like this and attempt to bridge the gap in the meantime.

@Alex thanks. I knew I was pushing it, but had to give it a shot anyway, its in my nature to over do IT.

True or not, it saddens me to think theres no desire for Goldsmith or Poledouris or even JW in todays films and games. But hey, 2pac said it best, thats just the way it is


----------



## mushanga (Jan 4, 2013)

SamiMatar @ Fri 04 Jan said:


> ...But hey, *2pac* said it best, thats just the way it is



You mean Bruce Hornsby * :wink: 

Great stuff - I enjoyed listening!


----------



## dcoscina (Jan 4, 2013)

I enjoyed this. Sounds like a real orchestra too.


----------



## passenger57 (Jan 4, 2013)

I love your track! Very inspiring!


----------



## SamiMatar (Jan 4, 2013)

@orchestranova indeeeeed. Thanks, glad you did.

@dcoscina Thanks David, it mostly is.

@passenger57 Thank you, I love writing and producing in this style, its too much fun!


----------



## dcoscina (Jan 4, 2013)

It's a pity that the current system is set up that it would make a person with Sami's skill/talent doubt his abilities. 

The music is terrific, don't kid yourself.


----------



## José Herring (Jan 4, 2013)

I had this big long response intellectual response, but then my heart took over. I deleted it and replaced it with this:

Your music is fine. It's the general state of the film music industry that sucks. Orchestra is considered a little old fashion. But it always swings back. So stay the course.


----------



## dcoscina (Jan 4, 2013)

josejherring @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> I had this big long response intellectual response, but then my heart took over. I deleted it and replaced it with this:
> 
> Your music is fine. It's the general state of the film music industry that sucks. Orchestra is considered a little old fashion. But it always swings back. So stay the course.



o-[][]-o


----------



## José Herring (Jan 4, 2013)

dcoscina @ Fri Jan 04 said:


> It's a pity that the current system is set up that it would make a person with Sami's skill/talent doubt his abilities.
> 
> The music is terrific, don't kid yourself.



+1

A lot of what I hear as music these days reminds of a Sarah Palin speech. Full of heart and emotion, but by golly bless their little souls they don't want to be incumbered by actually learning how to express themselves in a coherent way. :D


----------



## SamiMatar (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks guys! 

Although I don't see it swinging back to where I'd like to see it, but I'll take what I can get.

Either way I will always compose and produce without compromise, and I'll just have to deal with these bumps as they come.


----------



## Ned Bouhalassa (Jan 4, 2013)

That was excellent Sami, a great ride! You have everything needed to have a great career, super chops, just keep doing what you do. Source Code, the film with Jake Gyllenhaal, had more traditional-style music and it worked wonderfully.


----------



## Reegs (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi Sami,

This is all great writing! Bummer it had to be watered down to get the gig.


----------



## Blakus (Jan 4, 2013)

Sami this is AWESOME! Screw Starship, this music is fantastic


----------



## SamiMatar (Jan 4, 2013)

@Ned wow thank you, such kind words and I'm glad you had fun with it. I'll keep on it! And I'll check that movie out.

@Reegs yea, hopefuly pushing the envelope will open up some of these producers hearts...or get me fired, we'll see as the projects come and go.

@Blakus always great to see you enjoy my stuff!

Thank you guys, its always awesome and humbling to hear these words from my colleagues


----------



## freddiehangoler (Jan 4, 2013)

Masterful orchestration. great work. you are not a crappy composer most definitely


----------



## SamiMatar (Jan 4, 2013)

@Freddie Thank you, thats alot to say, I hope I can get close!


----------



## José Herring (Jan 5, 2013)

It's unfortunate to say, but you're the type of composer that needs to "dumb it down" for the current state of the music industry. It doesn't mean that it has to sound "dumb" but if you want it to sell then it's got to be so on the nose and in your face simplistic harmonically and melodically while still being exciting and motivating.

And production quality has got to be through the roof. We've gone like a 180 in the opposite direction than what was happening with Bartok, Mahler, Shostakovich and Stravinsky. Guys that could hear in the stratosphere of harmonic relationships. Guys that could turn an orchestra on its head and then straighten it back up again, only to send you again into utter controlled chaos and back down to the simply sublime. 

Make no mistake. That's gone. I rarely hear anything that even comes close to taxing the full potential of the orchestra. Even in concert music today. Much the opposite. In just about every score I hear, the players sound unchallenged, unmotivated and bored. There for the paycheck. Though to be honest there are a lot of players with a lot of integrity and will put their heart and soul into stuff that they could pull off drunk and naked.

So right now I focus a lot more on the sounds and the impact rather than on clever harmonies and melodic invention.

For me personally, I think there needs to be more trend setters than trend followers. And you certainly have that capability. But try not to look back, look ahead. What's going to be the next great sound? How can you apply what you know and create something new with it. Something that people haven't heard yet. Something that will make you the next go to guy. 

I pretty much occupy all my time thinking of this now. Look to the future. You are young enough that the future will be here before you know it, and what's happening now will become the past before all the trend followers even know what's really happening. It's already starting to happen. I can see it happening even today.

---been on the road all day. Rambling thoughts strung together.

Good night.


----------



## José Herring (Jan 5, 2013)

Rambling again,

Question what you know. Question why you know what you know. Is it you? Did some teacher tell you that this is how it should be? Do you think it's great because your favorite symphony composer thought it was great? Question everything. Question the masters. Ask yourself, why did composer "X" do what he did? Could it have been done better some other way?

Shake it up a bit. 

Doubting yourself and your ability is not really that bad of a thing for creative artist. When the sting of the loss is gone. If you really have the spark, you'll wake up in a few days and be right back writing again. Wondering how could you be better? Wondering maybe what you know isn't all that you should know. Wondering if you should throw out everything you know and start over.

Scary as all this sounds. It's not really a bad thing. To find yourself basically trying to learn again your musical ABC's trying to understand if what you know is really working.

I've gotten as bad as striking a middle "c" and wondering why that was middle "c". It lead to an entire study of the overtone series and a cleared understanding of harmony.

And in the end, I think the only reason I've ever worked at all, is because I've been able to toss everything I know out the window and do something that though may not be appreciated by other composers, was adored by those that I worked for.

In the end we don't work for eachother. We work for groups of people that have no knowledge of what we do beyond how it impacts them "emotionally". 

I think that until we learn what emotional effect our music has then we'll never really know how to employ the musical tools to maximize impact. To really pierce the heart, impinge, into another's consciousness to make a lasting effect.


----------



## George Caplan (Jan 5, 2013)

SamiMatar @ Thu Jan 03 said:


> [flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F73535736&secret_url=false[/flash]
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/sami-matar/starship-troopers-sami-matar



well i liked that a lot and thought the mixture of sounds and textures orchestral and otherwise worked well. one of the issues you will almost certainly have to address as time goes on is understanding things like starship troopers/audience type/attention span and so on. other self serving questions you ask yourself may include do i want to make money or do i want to be an artist?
let us know when youre up for rejection again and put some more music up. great and thanks. george.


----------



## TGV (Jan 6, 2013)

Impressive track. Must have taken a lot of work. I agree with the "dumbing down" comment. This is pretty complex music. It's more Stravinsky than 8-bit arcade. E.g., I think I heard a reference to Star-Wars at 1.26 or so. I like that, but I guess the execs think "nah, let's not take any risk of making our target audience think there is something in this world that they don't get; let them live in their bubble and give us their money". Unfortunately, there is some truth in that too.

So, if you want to earn a living with this, you might consider this music a way to sharpen your skills and show off a bit, get some recognition from music lovers (as opposed to music consumers), and then go back to your DAW and hammer out some hybrid four-to-the-floor track.


----------



## Christian Marcussen (Jan 7, 2013)

Great music. I'm not sure it sounds very Starship Troopers like though. More like the Alien franchise. I really enjoyed listening to it - crafty stuff.


----------



## SamiMatar (Jan 7, 2013)

@Jose thanks for sharing your thoughts, very interesting. What do you feel is the most effective way of learning and improving for you?

@George Thank you. For me, I think its a thin line and a battle for balance between wanting to make money and being an artist. I don't mind pushing the envelope, at the same time I'm careful not to burn bridges... Its a heavy topic for all I'm sure

@TGB It wasn't too much work, actually recording and mixing took longer than writing it. I agree, for today's director/producer I understand the need to cater to the audience more than ever. It's a very competitive market. Early in my career, I produced pop and hiphop for years so I've learned a thing or two about copy and pasting the todays sound. It's just disappointing to see it happen in this genre too. Either way, I love any type of project I get, music is music and I have a ton of fun with it.

@Christian thank you. Yes its normal for you to feel that way, I have a natural inclination to Goldsmith-esque music. I'm glad you enjoyed it.


----------



## sluggo (Jan 7, 2013)

Sami,
Were these cues written to picture? Or wild? Because lately there are many of the kinds of gigs where we have to write to a concept or idea or an as yet unproduced piece of visual media. These can be tricky. I would never say if this music was enirely good or bad because we don't know what else is going on with visuals or dialog etc. 
It's so easy for producers to trash music when it's on it's own but once you are in the process of writing for picture, they should work with you and actually do their job of producing/directing to get the right music.

That aside, your work is first-rate and shows a keen knowledge of composition, orchestration and production. Yes, I heard the Jerry Goldsmith in it. And I liked it and yes the industry thinks that sound is 'not cool'. To that I say 'whatever'.


----------



## SamiMatar (Jan 7, 2013)

*Starship Troopers - Featured on Soundcloud Classical*

@sluggo Thanks Sluggo. Yes they were written to picture. I'm not sure if I mentioned it but although this music was rejected, i did end up writing something they thought worked. Thank you for the kind words.


----------



## SamiMatar (Jan 7, 2013)

*Re: Starship Troopers *Update* Featured on SoundCloud*

SoundCloud has featured my track on the Classical page. I'm a little surprised, haven't seen dark or action orchestra featured before.

Thanks to everyone for the love!


----------



## ghostnote (Jan 8, 2013)

wow, great orchestration sami. It's a shame that it got rejected.


----------

