# Ozone/RX 10 Sneak Peak



## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Aug 13, 2022)

Coming Soon: Ozone 10 and RX 10


Ozone 10 and RX 10 are coming in September! Get a sneak peek of each product, and a free upgrade when they drop if you purchase current versions today.




www.izotope.com





Ozone looks utterly vile!


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Aug 13, 2022)




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## zvenx (Aug 13, 2022)

I actually like how it looks.
rsp


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## KEM (Aug 13, 2022)

Doesn’t look bad to me, I’m excited to see what new features RX will have, and if they’ll be improving their current algorithms


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## Kent (Aug 13, 2022)

Ha, I just posted about this in Teammates. 

I love the look! so fresh and clean. Great UI promotes great UX, and iZotope is always an industry leader.


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## Garlu (Aug 13, 2022)

Hope it can be used on the master (Ozone) without adding too much latency. 
So far, it's being unusable for that purpose (unless it's just for mixing/printing). It looks great tho!


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## Kent (Aug 13, 2022)

Garlu said:


> Hope it can be used on the master (Ozone) without adding too much latency.
> So far, it's being unusable for that purpose (unless it's just for mixing/printing). It looks great tho!


There isn't much that can be done to decrease mastering latency. Audio, especially at the point of the stereo buss, is a serial pipeline, and so each effect must be computed before the subsequent one. If there is any lookahead (for complex, 'better-sounding' algorithms), then that will also factor into the latency.


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## gedlig (Aug 13, 2022)

Yeah looks terrible. Everything starting to round off corners, add some stupid fake 3D graphics. Neutron 3, Ozone 9 and RX 9 all look great. Now they messed with the beautiful sharp, flat graphics in the new versions. And don't give me that "modern", "fresh" nonsense.


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## GeorgeThatMusicGuy (Aug 13, 2022)

I prefer the current look more, but if you look at that image, it somewhat implies this might just be the mastering assistant view, there's an icon which looks like 3 blocks above a rectangle which reminds me of the current ui layout


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## Living Fossil (Aug 13, 2022)

Garlu said:


> Hope it can be used on the master (Ozone) without adding too much latency.
> So far, it's being unusable for that purpose (unless it's just for mixing/printing). It looks great tho!


It's mostly the maximiser with the better algorithms that causes a huge latency, even when bypassed.
The most modules are reasonable in regards to latency.

You could disable the maximiser as long as you need lower latency and use something like the Waves limiter (the old one) instead, and replace it when you're done with the arrangement/mix.


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## sean8877 (Aug 13, 2022)

Has that "80's Miami Vice" look and feel.


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## PeterN (Aug 13, 2022)

EQ match, dynamics match, width match. What else match.

Good reason not to get it. Its following the trend of parrot pecking order.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 13, 2022)

That screenshot looks like they are integrating some (or maybe all?) of the functionality of Tonal Balance Control within the Ozone assistant. Which would be interesting!


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## IgneousOne (Aug 13, 2022)

_"Ozone 10 will feature new digital signal processing designed to help you get that sound of chart-topping hits," _
Are we all pop producers ?


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## Trash Panda (Aug 13, 2022)

Garlu said:


> Hope it can be used on the master (Ozone) without adding too much latency.
> So far, it's being unusable for that purpose (unless it's just for mixing/printing). It looks great tho!


Have you tried using the LL algorithm on Maximizer instead of the others? Should be much less latency.


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## Braveheart (Aug 13, 2022)

IgneousOne said:


> _"Ozone 10 will feature new digital signal processing designed to help you get that sound of chart-topping hits," _
> Are we all pop producers ?


Probably that's the core of their customers.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 13, 2022)

PeterN said:


> EQ match, dynamics match, width match. What else match.
> 
> Good reason not to get it. Its following the trend of parrot pecking order.


If it follows the same design as Neutron 4, that’s just the assistant view. The detail view looks basically the same as previous versions.


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## PeterN (Aug 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> If it follows the same design as Neutron 4, that’s just the assistant view. The detail view looks basically the same as previous versions.


Well, ...it was the match word that started to scratch in the ear. Maybe ok, but this *standardisation* is getting annoying. Grabbing the Soundtoys tools is becoming revolutionary. Or lets say, at least there's a taste of liberty and independence.

Anyway, no big deal.


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## SupremeFist (Aug 13, 2022)

PeterN said:


> Well, ...it was the match word that started to scratch in the ear. Maybe ok, but this *standardisation* is getting annoying. Grabbing the Soundtoys tools is becoming revolutionary. Or lets say, at least there's a taste of liberty and independence.
> 
> Anyway, no big deal.


I think all these tools are great and very educational if used in the right way. Not as a sticking plaster on the end of your master (unless you are in a hurry!) but to show you how you can go back to the mix and treat those imbalances so it doesn't want to do so much on the mix buss.


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## PeterN (Aug 13, 2022)

SupremeFist said:


> I think all these tools are great and very educational if used in the right way. Not as a sticking plaster on the end of your master (unless you are in a hurry!) but to show you how you can go back to the mix and treat those imbalances so it doesn't want to do so much on the mix buss.


To me it feels like some AI is leading the gullible you/me in the standard direction. Just press here and here.

Anyway enough said. Nevermind.

heh!


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## Macrawn (Aug 13, 2022)

I like the assistant view in Neutron 4 so I'm glad it is being used now with Ozone 10. 

I'm liking what I see as the reference track can be dropped right in, or use a preset. Looks like there is some width matching with the imager too. 

Like Neutron 4 it integrates tonal balance control profiles, but even better lets you drop in a reference track and it will create that profile.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 13, 2022)

PeterN said:


> Well, ...it was the match word that started to scratch in the ear. Maybe ok, but this *standardisation* is getting annoying. Grabbing the Soundtoys tools is becoming revolutionary. Or lets say, at least there's a taste of liberty and independence.
> 
> Anyway, no big deal.


What are you on about? Izotope is very consistent in saying the assistant is nothing more than a potential starting point. Moreover, their recent update is gearing more towards empowering users to use either their own curves that have been cultivated via machine learning OR your own reference tracks. If anything, they’re opening the door to be more unique by letting you customize the assistant (if you even bother with it) towards your own ideals. 

Sorry, but your posts are coming across like an old man yelling at clouds scenario.


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## Robo Rivard (Aug 13, 2022)

I wonder what will be the upgrade price to Ozone 10 Advanced if we already own Ozone 9 Advanced...


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## PeterN (Aug 13, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> What are you on about? Izotope is very consistent in saying the assistant is nothing more than a potential starting point. Moreover, their recent update is gearing more towards empowering users to use either their own curves that have been cultivated via machine learning OR your own reference tracks. If anything, they’re opening the door to be more unique by letting you customize the assistant (if you even bother with it) towards your own ideals.
> 
> Sorry, but your posts are coming across like an old man yelling at clouds scenario.


The intro says:

_"The new version will be easier to use than ever before, and more powerful too. Check out just one snapshot of the new tech below!"_

And snapshot is full of matching features.

Im not sure it is particularly _empowering_, as you put it, this seems more like a sublime hijack. Empowering over here, means this standardisation is not pushed on you with every tool.

When I make, say, pasta, I prefer to use my own ingredients and own recipes, not some ready made pasta sauce, following all standards. I know from Burma, when the excellent Burmese food was standardised to US taste, (due to tourism) it lost all its flavours.

--

Dont ask further as I prefer not to hijack this thread. thanks


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## Henu (Aug 14, 2022)

I'm actually with @PeterN here into extent. And continue the off-topic a bit as well, so sorry in advance.

All these positively-intended buzzwords like "democratization", "empowering" are for me just another words for "dumbing down", "homogenizing" and "cloning". Sure, this thing is only about mastering, but Neutron is about mixing.....and say, NI Expansion packs are about composing.

While there's nothing wrong with using this stuff as a starting point and learning, my biggest peeve is that most of this "democratization" is actually just more nails to the coffin of people cloning the exact fucking same thing that everyone else is already doing. And if you think for a second how homogenous and blatantly safe the pop music genre has become during the latest 5+ years, this is not exactly helping the matter. Of course, Ozone isn't the biggest offender here at all, but just a drip in the ocean. Yet, participating on the same idea.

I'm not really excited of the idea to live in a world where most of it's popular music is compo...sorry, _constructed _from the same elements, mixed with the exactly same AI presets and finally mastered to sounding exactly like the other one which was topping the charts last week. I'm almost ready to declare a freaking war on that embarrasingly homogenous Excel-driven stuff I hear on TikTok, Zoomerang and whatever water parks and clubs. (And the same goes for all the major entertainment industry, but that's another yelling at another piece of clouds.) Simply put, pop music has never in it's history been this homogenous and bland, and there are countless of articles and studies to reveal that scientifically as well.


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## nightjar (Aug 14, 2022)

I have no problems with having technology simplify and speed up what I consider the non-creative aspects of mixing and mastering. And the non-creative aspects for me includes tonal-balance and masking unless you are trying something unique with these particular considerations. There are SO MANY other areas of music creation where creativity and distinction can shine.

Tonal balance and masking for me are rarely creative elements, rather they are just another mundane impediment to effective creative expression. Get them out of way with minimal muss and fuss and allow more time for more creative activities.


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## Macrawn (Aug 14, 2022)

PeterN said:


> The intro says:
> 
> _"The new version will be easier to use than ever before, and more powerful too. Check out just one snapshot of the new tech below!"_
> 
> ...


I don't really agree with this position. All you have to do is listen to any song on the radio and even though it wasn't mixed with AI it was clearly made with a recognizable "sound".

Mix and master engineers use references, and really mix to a genre style. It's a kind of internalized formula. When people submit songs to be mixed with a reference track they generally want the profile of that song to be used. The engineer will make decisions based on the reference. The Ozone and Neutron AI helps shape the song toward that profile.

You might get a starting point from the AI what you do with it beyond that makes a big difference. I've used the Ozone AI and other smart plugins, but there are still a lot of adjustments and decisions to make not the least of which is where to use them and where not to.

And the other thing is, it must take at least 5 years probably closer to 10 to develop the ears that a good mix engineer has. And that 5-10 years is mixing full time years not composing years.

So most composers can do an ok job, but not pro level mixing. Usually there is a lot to be desired in their mixes. So the use of a reference profile can up the game for a lot of people.

Plus the AI doesn't do automation, sidechain compression, and all of the other adjustments and creative decisions you have to make along the way. Hopefully the mix is better than what the AI does by the time one is finished.


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## IgneousOne (Aug 14, 2022)

Would much rather see new features / improvements to existing ones to these AI type incorporations.


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## PeterN (Aug 14, 2022)

Henu said:


> I'm not really excited of the idea to live in a world where most of it's popular music is compo...sorry, _constructed _from the same elements, mixed with the exactly same AI presets and finally mastered to sounding exactly like the other one which was topping the charts last week.


I suspect you are in it already. Your word _constructed_, is a synonym to my word earlier: bricklayer composers.

If we combine them we get bricklayer constructors. All in all, we share the perspective. I was already speculating in Ozone 11 we must kneel before it (my first post in this thread), but I edited it, as you may see.


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## nightjar (Aug 14, 2022)

IgneousOne said:


> Would much rather see new features / improvements to existing ones to these AI type incorporations.


These AI type incorporations ARE new features and improvements.


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## IgneousOne (Aug 14, 2022)

Not necessarily improvements....


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## gedlig (Aug 14, 2022)

Being able to use more than 1 eq in Neutron (if you want to use it as one plugin instead of separate individual components) or adding a volume slider for every band in Exciter (like there is in Fabfilter Saturn) would be obvious improvements, yet they keep chucking AI stuff that, personally for me, always do the opposite of what I want.


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## jcrosby (Aug 14, 2022)

PeterN said:


> When I make, say, pasta, I prefer to use my own ingredients and own recipes, not some ready made pasta sauce, following all standards. I know from Burma, when the excellent Burmese food was standardised to US taste, (due to tourism) it lost all its flavours.


They haven't removed the ability to start from scratch. That said, I don't use any of the AI because it really isn't that clever, and i agree that it does tend to make things sound homogenous.... But the DSP is still the same, and like neutron 4 and there won't be anything preventing me from setting up Ozone to do what I want it to, or cherry pick individual plugins without having to use the Ozone shell.


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## PeterN (Aug 14, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> They haven't removed the ability to start from scratch. That said, I don't use any of the AI because it really isn't that clever, and i agree that it does tend to make things sound homogenous.... But the DSP is still the same, and like neutron 4 and there won't be anything preventing me from setting up Ozone to do what I want it to, or cherry pick individual plugins without having to use the Ozone shell.


In other words, not much point to get Ozone 10 - based on this intro at least. That's sort of where I started this dialogue.


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## jcrosby (Aug 14, 2022)

PeterN said:


> In other words, not much point to get Ozone 10 - based on this intro at least. That's sort of where I started this dialogue.


That assumes that there aren't new modules and features that aren't AI-only features. Knowing past Ozone releases I personally doubt that will be the case.


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## PeterN (Aug 15, 2022)

jcrosby said:


> That assumes that there aren't new modules and features that aren't AI-only features. Knowing past Ozone releases I personally doubt that will be the case.


But the AI and the parrot-button,is the main marketing niche, isn't it, at least what is revealed so far. One can draw conclusions where the resources have been focused. Not that it would be any big deal for me personally.... more entertainment value this discussion.


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## Crowe (Aug 15, 2022)

Nobody who celebrated the destruction of Jaeger's fantastic UI by way of homogenisation is allowed to say anything negative about this UI rework on pain of hypocrisy.

Just keep sanding and sanding until we can cater to the lowest common denominator.


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## patekswiss (Aug 17, 2022)

I used to be a big user of Ozone, going back to the 5 or 6 days. Eventually I became reluctant to put it in my projects because the results were not really making me happy, and also because there was usually a large latency penalty when I was tracking. So if I did put it in, it wasn't until the very end. In the meantime, to help the mix sound better as I worked on the production, I'd use simple plugins like EQs, a bit of compression, all zero latency stuff, and soon found that I could get a very nice sound without the Ozone. So I just drifted away from it.

I'm not against all mastering plugins, mind you. The Waves Abbey Road TG thing has some really great presets. But I only use it at the very end. The point is that much of what these things can do for you, you can do with mixing, balancing and simpler plugins that impose far less of a burden on your system. It is more work, but you get the sound you like, not the "best match" among presets. And much of the work you do is transferable to your next project, so over time, its really not that great of a burden to work this way.

The other benefit is that these complicated mastering plugins can often behave unpredictably as you add other things elsewhere in your project, because you don't really know what they're doing with all their many moving parts inside the black box. With the simpler approach I don't waste as much time with unexpected side-effects and backwards engineering to figure out where the problem is. If that makes sense.


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## Macrawn (Aug 17, 2022)

Isn't the delay caused by the linear phase eq in Ozone? Just take it out of linear phase mode.


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## Trash Panda (Aug 17, 2022)

Macrawn said:


> Isn't the delay caused by the linear phase eq in Ozone? Just take it out of linear phase mode.


It's caused by the IIRC limiter options in Maximizer. If you put it into LLC mode there's very little latency.


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## Casiquire (Aug 17, 2022)

IgneousOne said:


> Not necessarily improvements....


I think it's out of the scope of what Ozone is trying to be to improve on fundamentals like EQ or limiters. I think the main draw of Ozone is to put them all into a streamlined and consistent cross-plugin interface to allow people who don't know much about mastering to achieve a decent sounding master. In that light, this does look like an improvement.

Personally I'm not crazy about the game-ified look, but if we still have the option of going under the hood or using individual Ozone plugins (the limiter, imager, and exciter are all very good and I love the consistent look and functions) then I still think it's a valuable product. On that front, I hope they keep improving some of their RX plugins and similar tools. Things like their de-esser, noise reduction, de-reverb, rebalance, and the like are extremely useful tools that they've been steadily improving for a couple versions now and always interest me when it's upgrade time.


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## jcrosby (Aug 17, 2022)

Macrawn said:


> Isn't the delay caused by the linear phase eq in Ozone? Just take it out of linear phase mode.


It's mainly a combination of lookahead and linear phase. Ozone defaults to mixed phase crossovers ('hybrid')... The default 'hybrid' crossover latency is 384 samples, but most modules with crossovers can be set to 'Analog' for a huge drop in latency. (See the last paragraph).

Analog crossovers can ring and create phase issues if used on something with a phase relationship, (drum/multi-mic'd instruments for example). And lookahead is what allows for transparent dynamics that don't over-react to the material. Both can be disabled, and there are plenty of times where these will sound fine... Individual busses for example (depending on the bus type). You can also save presets with zero-latency settings and then you have the best of both worlds as options.

High quality brickwall limiters however are always going to have high lookahead latencies. Lookahead is what lets the limiter do as little damage as possible, any decent 'mastering limiter is going to require some kind of sizable lookahead... Pro-L2 for example adds around 3,100 samples with most of the newer algorithms. Elevate by default requires 5,485 samples.

That said as Trash Panda pointed out you can use IRC LL and get good results. I wouldn't send a final master mix through IRC LL, but it's totally fine on stem busses.

Ozone also has a couple modules that are zero latency by default:
* The EQ (not match EQ, which is Linear Phase only)
* Dynamic EQ
* Spectral Shaper
* Vintage Compressor
* Vintage EQ - (22 samples. Not zero but low enough to not be an issue.)

Some modules require high latency for lookahead:
*Maximizer (The latency varies depending on the IRC mode, 352 LL to 9,359. ((TP adds more).
* Vintage Limiter (783, True Peak = 801)
* Match EQ (3,069)
* Vintage Tape (2,423. Dynamics I'm guessing... Maybe the modeling requires some too(?)

Some of the modules can't have latency reduced because they either do some complicated spectral processing or use machine learning, which both require a huge lookahead window:
* Low End Focus (12,798 Punch, 10,239 Smooth).
* Master Rebalance

(These numbers are based on what Logic reports).

In terms of reducing latency... The dynamics module adds 437 samples of latency with the default settings. You can make it zero latency by changing the crossover types to 'analog', and sliding lookahead down to 0. As soon as you make both of these changes the dynamics module reports no latency at all. Same with the exciter, switching the crossovers to analog and turning off oversampling kills the latency.


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## Garlu (Oct 26, 2022)

Trash Panda said:


> Have you tried using the LL algorithm on Maximizer instead of the others? Should be much less latency.


I didn't know this trick! This helps!!! Many thanks!!! (and sorry for the super late reply!!).


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