# Dimension Strings Test



## Saxer (Jan 30, 2014)

and now with the violas...

i mixed the different legatos (legato vib, legato espr, performance trills) to get more players. i have two instruments pro per section to get divisi.
the section is 10/8/6/6/4(basses not vsl) divided in 5/5-4/4-3/3-3/3-4

here is a test example - 0:45 to 1:00 is divisi for all sections (exept basses).

https://soundcloud.com/saxer/dimension-strings-test


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## synergy543 (Jan 30, 2014)

That sound exceptionally good.

By mixing legato arcticulations do you feel it might restrict expressive variations as you can't switch to articulations you're already using? Just curious as to your thoughts on this.

Also, how are you deriving the 2nd violins? And which basses are you using?


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## Saxer (Jan 31, 2014)

i don't have a problem with "mixed" legatos, they are (for my taste) not more different than players in a section in musical context... one has more vib, the other faster transition... it sound's good, so no problem.

i might get into trouble with adding non-vib sustains/legatos as there are only eight of them (for 18 players). i will try time stretching or must use the "transpose-trick"... but i want to avoid a detuned articulation which would need another (transposed) track in the daw.

basses are old miroslaw-samples from the akai aera.


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## Stephen Rees (Jan 31, 2014)

Really lovely writing. Particularly enjoyed the moment at 0.44s as the texture becomes more divisi. Very effective and beautiful.

Are you mixing in MIR?


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## Saxer (Jan 31, 2014)

i have MIRx but didn't use it here. actually i didn't have any "Aaahh"-moments when trying out MIR. a good room gives a lot of warm body to the sound and MIR doesn't, it's just all far away. 
i only used some early reflections at the master bus of vienna ensemble (from vsl hybrid verb, tail off) and a bit of relab rev in my daw.


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## SimonCharlesHanna (Jan 31, 2014)

Very nice.


I love Dimension strings!


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## AC986 (Jan 31, 2014)

Sounds great. Some very good inner harmonies going on in there. 

What a good track!


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## Saxer (Feb 3, 2014)

some more. trying fast legatos and mixed articulations.

https://soundcloud.com/saxer/dimension-string-test-2


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## DocMidi657 (Feb 3, 2014)

Hi Saxer,

Outstanding work with Dimension. I just sent you a message about it.
Dave'


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## maestro2be (Feb 3, 2014)

I think the demos sound great. The sound of the slower track (first demo) really has a beautiful quality that sounds like a romantic 1950's sound track of which I really like. It sounds like the strings you would hear in the old romantic music era. Nice composition.

Maestro2be


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## dimtsak (Feb 3, 2014)

Beautiful composition and sound.

What is the way you write?
Usind a notation program or playing with the keyboard?


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## Mahlon (Feb 3, 2014)

Wow! Pretty incredible.

M


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## Saxer (Feb 3, 2014)

dimtsak @ 3.2.2014 said:


> Beautiful composition and sound.
> 
> What is the way you write?
> Usind a notation program or playing with the keyboard?


thanks all 

i use logic for everything. logic has a good note editor. i make a kind of guide track, arrange it mostly with a simple rhodes sound and then play the notes from screen track by track.


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## DocMidi657 (Feb 3, 2014)

Hi Saxer...Dave here again 

I just asked this question in the composition techniques area based on your inspiring music.

Can you elaborate a little more about your approach? Do you mean you play a piano part/Rhodes part in one pass, then look at it to come up with individual parts? I use Logic Pro as well. Do you some how explode the Piano part so the chords become single notes on each staff? (so you can then play them with string sounds?

Thanks for your help!
Dave


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## Saxer (Feb 3, 2014)

haha, never in one pass... i'm a bad keyboard player. melodies are ok but for voicings i either play chord by chord or, for more 'big band style' arranging, i play the top line and spread it out with alt/mouse-dragging. only real polyphonic arranging i do inside a full score (or if i want a printed score) but also in logic. 
for simple things i play the single string lines out of the notated chords direct from screen, for complicated parts or score writing i separate them to extra tracks. 

there are two nice functions in logic: set midi channel to voice number. and there's a function where you can spread out the different midi channels to separate tracks. i made myself key commands for both. so if you have a four part polyphonic section these two commands will make four monophonic lines on separate tracks out of it. but it only works with a constant number of voices, they have to be quantized and same rhythm. good for brass sections.

sometimes i just copy the part directly from piano sketch into the string-instrument-track, correct length and add controller. in this examples i used the TEC breath controller... dimension strings react incredibly direct and fast like no other string library. it feels like samplemodeling while playing.


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## Arbee (Feb 3, 2014)

Saxer @ Tue Feb 04 said:


> some more. trying fast legatos and mixed articulations.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/saxer/dimension-string-test-2


 Nice - I really, really like VSL's approach to legato. o/~ 

.


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## Stephen Rees (Feb 4, 2014)

Both pieces are lovely writing, and your mockups are very skilfully created. Bravo!

Dimension Strings delivers a really appealing sound to me. We are really spoilt with great string libraries right now.


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## Erik (Feb 4, 2014)

Saxer,
Great writing, great mockup, great mixing. Compliments!!
This is one of the best tracks with DS, VSL should add these tracks on their site!


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## mathis (Feb 5, 2014)

yes, thanks for posting those!


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## Saxer (Feb 6, 2014)

and one more... i really have fun with these dimensions... :D 

https://soundcloud.com/saxer/first-view


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## synergy543 (Feb 6, 2014)

Saxer @ Thu Feb 06 said:


> and one more... i really have fun with these dimensions... :D
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/saxer/first-view


Wow! Listening while watching a heavy snow outside in the trees....Perfect!
Thats really a nicely balanced mix.


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## RiffWraith (Feb 6, 2014)

Saxer @ Fri Jan 31 said:


> and now with the violas...
> 
> i mixed the different legatos (legato vib, legato espr, performance trills) to get more players. i have two instruments pro per section to get divisi.
> the section is 10/8/6/6/4(basses not vsl) divided in 5/5-4/4-3/3-3/3-4
> ...



Nice writing. And the strings do sound really nice, but the stereo field is extremely narrow. It's not mono - but it's close. Were the strings recorded this way, or did you do something to them?


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## Saxer (Feb 6, 2014)

RiffWraith @ 6.2.2014 said:


> ... but the stereo field is extremely narrow. It's not mono - but it's close. Were the strings recorded this way, or did you do something to them?


yepp... it comes probably from the early reflections (vsl hybrid verb) on the string bus. the panning in VE is wider. still work in progress... i have to try if there's enough cpu in my slave macmini to route seperate early reflections into each section. when playing fast passages the VI voice counter of this string section jumps up to over 1200 voices. hard work for a mini


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## impressions (Feb 6, 2014)

I think the writing is fantastic, and most of the articulations sounds very well, but- 0:22-0:37 the accompaniment sounds too cut, in the movement of those 2nds. it should be more smooth legato, perhaps a slight pitch bend toward each note. 
I think it should sound differently if played live.


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## Malo (Feb 6, 2014)

Saxer @ Thu Feb 06 said:


> RiffWraith @ 6.2.2014 said:
> 
> 
> > ... but the stereo field is extremely narrow. It's not mono - but it's close. Were the strings recorded this way, or did you do something to them?
> ...



Saxer, these examples are by far the nicest I've heard of Dimension Strings. Wonderful writing helps, of course. :mrgreen: 
Makes me wonder if I've made a mistake in not buying them at the introductory price, since VSL VI Pro is my favorite sample player. Oh, well! :| 

I'm a bit surprised that you should need to have an ER for each pan position. Normally with VSL one ER per depth should be enough and the VSL Panner (can't remember the name) takes care of the width. Are you saying that somehow the Hybrid ER masks your panning info?


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## Saxer (Feb 6, 2014)

Malo @ 6.2.2014 said:


> Are you saying that somehow the Hybrid ER masks your panning info?


not really the panning info. but the early reflections come back from each wall so even extreme left violins have reflection signal from the right which makes the location less precise. i think i just have to pan harder. it's a pity with DS: you have all players free assignable and at the and the half of them are turned into one corner (more or less).


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## Malo (Feb 6, 2014)

Saxer @ Fri Feb 07 said:


> Malo @ 6.2.2014 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you saying that somehow the Hybrid ER masks your panning info?
> ...



I see! I assume the ER you're using is from a rather small room, then. Would a wider room ER create less reflection from the opposite wall?

(Can you tell I know nothing about early reflections?) :oops:


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## Saxer (Feb 6, 2014)

i think that's just a question von leveling... how many direct signal and how many early reflections. and all reflections go everywhere. its just a matter of time and absorbtion.
in real world that means: the closer the listener stands to the player the more direct signal (direct in the face) and less back from the walls he gets. far from the player: less direct signal, more signal back from the walls (relative). and the closer the player is the longer is the rest between direct signal and the first early reflections. the closer the player to one wall the faster first reflections from that and later from the opposite wall. ahem... eh, what was the question? :D


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## Malo (Feb 6, 2014)

:mrgreen: Thank you for the explanation!


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## Vision (Feb 6, 2014)

Exceptional man. Great writing, and attention to detail (of the samples). I was curious how these new dimension violas sounded. It's funny how VSL has seemingly been in the background lately, considering that they were pioneers of the legato era. I still think VSL Chamber Strings are highly underrated.


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## MacQ (Feb 6, 2014)

Saxer, beautiful writing, and such sensitive programming. Bravo!!



Don't let what I'm about to say reflect on your writing or programming ability, as you truly are an outstanding musician. 



VSL Dimension Strings sound so very real, and are evidently capable of some very "live" sounding string writing, with all of the correct divisi. I just don't like the basic tone of them at all. It lends itself to that classic vintage style really well, but I prefer my strings larger-than life, and something about them just sounds inauthentic. It's probably that the lack of sympathetic resonance in unisons has a real effect on overall tone, and like with the DVZ Strings, that lack of unifying resonance makes things sound disconnected somehow. Like a whole bunch of layered solo violins (which they ARE, but that's the problem).

I think VSL could probably brute-force this one with a Vienna Player update, reinforcing the fundamental and first few harmonics with sine-waves when unison is detected. It would be subtle, but definitely would help unify the tone. And ironically, to make them sound less synthy, you'd be blending them with a synth. :-D



Anyway, great writing and emotional sensitivity. Loved it. What do you use to input MIDI CC's?


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## Saxer (Feb 6, 2014)

MacQ @ 7.2.2014 said:


> What do you use to input MIDI CC's?


thanks for the kind words!
i use the TEControl breath controller for CC1.

concerning sound: i like it. it's definitely more TV than paramount but is has more parallels to real life string recordings i wrote for than the bigger scoring stage libraries.
main thing for me is playability so it feels more like an instrument. i just get better ideas with it an have more fun!


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## Arbee (Feb 7, 2014)

Saxer @ Fri Feb 07 said:


> and one more... i really have fun with these dimensions... :D
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/saxer/first-view


Beautiful writing and execution Saxer. I know you don't seem to be getting along with MIR but would really like to hear this piece in a Teldex or sim. MIR context.

.


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## Saxer (Feb 7, 2014)

Arbee @ 7.2.2014 said:


> I know you don't seem to be getting along with MIR but would really like to hear this piece in a Teldex or sim. MIR context.


me too... but it's too heavy for my mac mini. maybe later this year when i have my new mac pro.


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## Stephen Rees (Feb 7, 2014)

MacQ @ Fri Feb 07 said:


> Like a whole bunch of layered solo violins (which they ARE, but that's the problem).
> 
> I think VSL could probably brute-force this one with a Vienna Player update, reinforcing the fundamental and first few harmonics with sine-waves when unison is detected. It would be subtle, but definitely would help unify the tone. And ironically, to make them sound less synthy, you'd be blending them with a synth.



But they WERE all recorded at the same time, and they ARE all resonating. That is the whole point of the 'dimension' concept (both strings and brass).

They are not just a bunch of layered solo violins (or violas, or cellos, or basses).

Having said that, I can see why someone would not like the tone because that is such a personal thing. For myself, I like it. It is a fine counterpoint to Spitfire's approach with Sable.


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## Arbee (Feb 7, 2014)

Having come this far with DS, Vi Pro and MIR etc, I'm really interested to see where VSL go next with all of this.

.


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## MacQ (Feb 7, 2014)

Saxer @ Fri Feb 07 said:


> i use the TEControl breath controller for CC1.



By strange coincidence I _just_ ordered one before seeing your reply!! =o

I've tried every fader-box around, iPad, etc ... and I'm hoping this will be my answer to intuitive real-time expression. I'm a classically-trained vocalist, but I hated my BC3. We'll see.

As for the sound, if it inspires you to actually WRITE, that's the only consideration worth mentioning. The "get music out" factor cannot be underestimated. Maybe I'll take a closer look. Your demos are pretty damn convincing!


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## SymphonicSamples (Feb 8, 2014)

Hey Saxer , lovely writing / voicing . The string section indeed sounds gorgeous and balanced .


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## Goran (Feb 8, 2014)

Well done, congratulations! The sound aesthetics is very "media music" like, but for that purpose, it works very, very well. If you are interested in how DS strings sound in a more "old-school" orchestra sound aesthetics context, check the Wagner and Mozart examples here:

https://viennatraining.com/en/leiter

Both are done using DS violins, but are very different: Wagner is done with large symphonic strings sections, whereas Mozart displays much smaller chamber orchestra string sections (and a more restrained, "period performance"-like playing style).


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## Saxer (Feb 8, 2014)

Goran @ 8.2.2014 said:


> Well done, congratulations! The sound aesthetics is very "media music" like, but for that purpose, it works very, very well. If you are interested in how DS strings sound in a more "old-school" orchestra sound aesthetics context, check the Wagner and Mozart examples here:
> 
> https://viennatraining.com/en/leiter
> 
> Both are done using DS violins, but are very different: Wagner is done with large symphonic strings sections, whereas Mozart displays much smaller chamber orchestra string sections (and a more restrained, "period performance"-like playing style).


sounds really beautiful! great work!
is it DS only for the strings in these two examples? and how do you divided the sections in the wagner example? as far as i know it's 8-times divisi?


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## Goran (Feb 9, 2014)

No, it's always a combination of DS violins with other VSL strings - in the Mozart example a Chamber Strings section is added to each of the two violin sections. Violas, celli and double basses are done as a combination of Solo Strings and Chamber Strings (both Mozart and Wagner were done before DS Celli & Violas were available).

Wagner divides the violins in four divisi groups + four solo violins - I use DS violins for the four divisi groups and Solo Strings for the four soloists. Later on, he puts the violins back together into two standard sections (I & II) - for that I additionaly mixed in Orchestral Violins for violins I & II respectively.

Thanks for listening


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