# Can you ever "love" your own compositions?



## Peter M. (Apr 18, 2014)

I've been thinking about this recently. Can you ever actually like or love pieces of music that you yourself have written, like you love other pieces by other composers whoever they may be? Sometimes I'd find a theme or a melody and I really like it, but after hours of working on it to make a piece of music, it's kinda just a bunch of notes. Totally un-engaging to me. Maybe I just didn't write anything worth while yet, but I never actually like anything I've written. Not because they aren't good music, there's some works that other people clearly like, but I do not. How about you? Ever listen to your own stuff like you would your favorite band or artist?


----------



## apessino (Apr 18, 2014)

All right, I confess: some of the things I have done I really like. :shock: 

Now, if only I could get other people to like them... :lol:


----------



## Greg (Apr 18, 2014)

I love them right after I figure out cool ideas or right when they're all polished up and finished. Then a few days later they're pretty much dead to me and Im chasing the next idea to get that feeling again :D


----------



## AlexandreSafi (Apr 18, 2014)

Good question! 

By definition, i think we always set out to make the music we love ourself, but the more i gain experience as a composer, the more i seem to hear all the details that could be fixed, all the little fine-tuning that needs to be done although it never seem to make me hate my own thing, even after further evaluation.

I guess it's a healthy balance between respecting your own ideas, learn from them and yes also appreciate them if you still can, but also having the humility to look for the imperfections, the flaws and what's ahead...
I generally feel a tremendous satisfaction of creating something inward and seeing it come to frutition outward, that's what I love...
But still, the irony is that our talent has to be about always discerning the good music from the bad music... So i guess there's obviously always objectivity & subjectivity involved...

I think you should always leave room for love & hate, but love or hate in silence when it comes to your own music...

Alex


----------



## dgburns (Apr 18, 2014)

Peter M. @ Fri Apr 18 said:


> I've been thinking about this recently. Can you ever actually like or love pieces of music that you yourself have written, like you love other pieces by other composers whoever they may be? Sometimes I'd find a theme or a melody and I really like it, but after hours of working on it to make a piece of music, it's kinda just a bunch of notes. Totally un-engaging to me. Maybe I just didn't write anything worth while yet, but I never actually like anything I've written. Not because they aren't good music, there's some works that other people clearly like, but I do not. How about you? Ever listen to your own stuff like you would your favorite band or artist?



I hear my stuff back on tv regularly.I cringe every time.no getting used to it.I usually change the channel.


----------



## nikolas (Apr 18, 2014)

I can.

Reason for this is that I'm working in the classical music world now (as a composer and a publisher) and as such I get to listen to my works performed by others: This creates a very nice feeling of magic around my own works (that no longer feel my own)... And this works great! 

Especially in works for orchestra, where you can't really tell how it's going to sound, until you actually hear it live (even with samples. If we're talking about contemporary techniques... ouch...)


----------



## NYC Composer (Apr 19, 2014)

I love some of my stuff and don't love some of it and hate some of it etc etc-but in the back of my mind, I've never totally "finished"anything.


----------



## AC986 (Apr 19, 2014)

Mine to me are like little lottery tickets that go out into the world somehow. Sometimes they win and a lot of the time they don't.


----------



## Stephen Rees (Apr 19, 2014)

I have a very hazy memory of something Bruce Richardson said years ago on the Northern Sounds forum that has stayed with me all the time since. It was something along the lines of....

You absolutely should love your music. Not in the sense of 'Look at my wonderful music! Isn't it great! Aren't I the most wonderful composer ever to have produced such an awesome thing!'; but in the sense of 'I have given birth to this musical idea. What does it need to thrive? How can it achieve its full potential? What environment does it need to be its best? I should give it my all to give it the best chance to be all it can be'.

So I try to love my music when I am writing it, in the sense one might love one's children and help them thrive in a supportive environment. Then once it is finished, I let it go and my tracks have adventures out in the world on their own, which I keep an eye on when I get my royalty statements, but other than that I rarely think of them again.

At the end of the day, if we, as composers, don't love our music in the sense of giving it our all to make it as good as it can be, why should anyone else bother with it?


----------



## Rctec (Apr 19, 2014)

I'm never happy with mine, but I learned how to live with them by just not listening to them. (Which makes interviews a bit of a mystery, since I never know what piece they are talking about. But I hate other composer's work that tries to imitate mine. (Except for Team America)
I like the making part. after that - it's just the thrill of a new adventure.


----------



## Jaap (Apr 19, 2014)

Last year I lost my fiancé in a fire and I couldn't compose for a while since I was emotionally broken beyond everything. After a while I started working on a few pieces just for me and her. I listen to them every day and I love them deeply.
Maybe it is because there is a very deep emotional connection with them. I can enjoy my own pieces, but I never listen to them after they are finished unless it is work related, but just like Hans is saying. I love making them.


----------



## G.E. (Apr 19, 2014)

I usually love it when I first come up with something.By the end I think it's total crap no matter how much I liked it in the beginning.But I think it's good to never be satisfied with your music.Otherwise how would you ever get better at it ?

I think this is especially true for mockups.I did an experiment once and wrote everything on the piano before orchestrating in my daw.Hearing everything I wrote on paper come to life with the orchestra made me once again like it.Of course the more I listened to it,the more I started to notice things that I could've done a lot better and the love was gone shortly. 

I think hating your music is an important tool for progress.Each time I try to do better than the last time and each time I notice an improvement even if it's just as little as an extra 1%.

I think Hans said it very well:
"I like the making part. after that - it's just the thrill of a new adventure."


----------



## Stephen Rees (Apr 19, 2014)

@Jaap: Sorry to hear that good buddie. Wishing you all the best.


----------



## AC986 (Apr 19, 2014)

Rctec @ Sat Apr 19 said:


> But I hate other composer's work that tries to imitate mine.



You can't be listening to much then Hans?


----------



## Waywyn (Apr 19, 2014)

Same here, love making them, convinced that I did a good job, but after a few weeks I think it is bullshit ... and once in a while one sticks through I really like!


----------



## Valérie_D (Apr 19, 2014)

Depends, I feel like it's never finished. I mostly like the idea of what I want it to sound like in my head, until it's actually out there.

Revisiting a piece after a long time will help, as if I did not compose it myself. As Hans and most of you said about loving the process of writing versus listening to the final product, it the key to wanting to compose daily, something I struggle with sometimes :D


----------



## Hannes_F (Apr 19, 2014)

Yes, absolutely. However only if I've been in one of those phases while writing where everything seems to 'fall in place'.


----------



## rayinstirling (Apr 19, 2014)

Never.

Sorry about the essay.


----------



## TheUnfinished (Apr 19, 2014)

It works in waves for me. I generally love whatever I've just finished working on, then it'll fall into the pile and merely be something I like. But, often, I can come back to it later with fresh ears and love it all over again.

Often it depends on the reason it was written. Some throw away jobs, even when you really dig it at the time, are less likely to stand the test of time and be loevable later on.

I'm currently starting work on an album and I don't intend to include any tracks that I don't feel I will always love.


----------



## EastWest Lurker (Apr 19, 2014)

TheUnfinished @ Sat Apr 19 said:


> It works in waves for me. I generally love whatever I've just finished working on, then it'll fall into the pile and merely be something I like. But, often, I can come back to it later with fresh ears and love it all over again.



Exactly the same for me.


----------



## AR (Apr 19, 2014)

After a project is finished and I'm in the middle of a new one I go back a listen to some old cues, just how to remember I made a particular sound. Then I often realize how I would do it different now. But at the time it seemed right. You know this feeling, too?


----------



## dgburns (Apr 19, 2014)

Waywyn @ Sat Apr 19 said:


> Same here, love making them, convinced that I did a good job, but after a few weeks I think it is bullshit ... and once in a while one sticks through I really like!



dude,may I say that i actually dig alot of your stuff.


----------



## AC986 (Apr 19, 2014)

Everyone should put up one track that they did that they like.


----------



## AlexandreSafi (Apr 19, 2014)

adriancook @ Sat Apr 19 said:


> Everyone should put up one track that they did that they like.



Are you sure?... It's so personal, this could get ugly! :D


----------



## AC986 (Apr 19, 2014)

AlexandreSafi @ Sat Apr 19 said:


> adriancook @ Sat Apr 19 said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone should put up one track that they did that they like.
> ...



Of course. Why not.


----------



## AlexandreSafi (Apr 19, 2014)

adriancook @ Sat Apr 19 said:


> Of course. Why not.



This is a cool idea of course, but i'm saying "ugly" as in terrifying at first facing opinions, because this is the same composer-director 1st time presenting a piece here with the "i like it myself" label on top of it...


----------



## Consona (Apr 20, 2014)

adriancook @ Sat Apr 19 said:


> Everyone should put up one track that they did that they like.


Ok, here is track I finished today.

[flash width=450 height=110 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F145629550&secret_url=false[/flash]

It's nothing groundbreaking, it's really short (it's just a theme), the mix is far from perfect, but I like it.






I think it's important to tame your perfectionism so it doesn't hinder your productivity but it still pushes you to make something you are really satisfied with. I like every piece I'm working on otherwise it would feel like some kind of torture because composing is so internal.


----------



## Lex (Apr 20, 2014)

Some I enjoy listening like a true egocentric, some I think are complete disasters and some are uninteresting passable things (the worst)..

I'm just wondering, if you don't "love" what you write how do you make judgments what to write? I always try to create music that I would enjoy listening, music that excites me, challenges me and so on. I mean, if I start writing and I don't like what I hear why would I continue writing it? (unless the deadline is insane)

alex


----------



## Blakus (Apr 20, 2014)

I agree with Alex. If I don't like it, I don't lay it down. I do enjoy listening back to my work, I find it satisfying - but like anything, I get sick of it after a certain amount of time spent with it.


----------



## ryanstrong (Apr 20, 2014)

It's hard because you are the one behind the curtain. I love it when others enjoy my compositions, that's always a nice feeling; because they only see the show, not the chaotic mess behind the curtain.


----------



## germancomponist (Apr 20, 2014)

Lex @ Sun Apr 20 said:


> Some I enjoy listening like a true egocentric, some I think are complete disasters and some are uninteresting passable things (the worst)..
> 
> I'm just wondering, if you don't "love" what you write how do you make judgments what to write? I always try to create music that I would enjoy listening, music that excites me, challenges me and so on. I mean, if I start writing and I don't like what I hear why would I continue writing it? (unless the deadline is insane)
> 
> alex



+1


----------



## rJames (Apr 20, 2014)

I think I'm just naive. I love them when I'm writing and love them when I listen back.

I don't love them as much either when I'm writing or after, when I am chasing something I think someone else will like.


----------



## AC986 (Apr 21, 2014)

Consona @ Sun Apr 20 said:


> It's nothing groundbreaking, it's really short (it's just a theme), the mix is far from perfect, but I like it.



And so do I. Has a medieval feel to it. 

People worry too much about liking things.


----------



## Peter M. (Apr 21, 2014)

I always absolutely love the process. I love figuring out melodies, harmonies, etc, I'm so excited for every new note. But after the whole thing is finished, I just kinda go... meh... could've been better.


----------



## AlexandreSafi (Apr 21, 2014)

Alright, ok, fine!

Here's the latest orchestral cue I made to get back to those exercices in melody and rhythmic writing that I love doing:
https://soundcloud.com/karim-safi/holly ... -theme-for

Not saying I love it, but it was this one piece where i had the unusual: easiest, quickest time AND the most fun making, from start to finish...

Alexandre


----------



## AC986 (Apr 21, 2014)

I think that's great Alexandre. My goodness, as you appear to be a fairly young chap and that music is certainly taking me back to way before you were probably born.

You could make it sound better, but that's not the point of this thread. Presumably the OP was simply talking about music and music composing and not all the technical computer baggage like sound and use of samples.


----------



## Peter M. (Apr 21, 2014)

adriancook @ Mon Apr 21 said:


> You could make it sound better, but that's not the point of this thread. Presumably the OP was simply talking about music and music composing and not all the technical computer baggage like sound and use of samples.



I don't think it really matters. I think even the most successful composers with access to greatest orchestras face this problem. I think I've seen mr. Zimmer talk about this on one of his reddit "ask me" threads.


----------



## Stephen Baysted (Apr 21, 2014)

I hate listening to my music, especially in front of others. And I'm never ever satisfied with it, so rarely play any of it back after it's been released/synced etc. Worst of all is a concert situation - I'll just hide at the back and hope no one notices me wincing.


----------



## Consona (Apr 21, 2014)

Imo, technical side of the thing plays its part too. I didn't finish some pieces because I was unable to mix them to my taste. I liked the composition but it sounded weird.


----------



## AC986 (Apr 21, 2014)

I have some terrible mixed things out there. I mean _terrible_. But I think you just have to let these things go and improve on all the technical stuff.


----------



## dcoscina (Apr 21, 2014)

Sometimes I'm happy with the result but it only lasts a couple days. Then I listen to the piece and look at all the things I need to revise....


----------



## H.R. (Apr 21, 2014)

It reminds me of this phrase from Fight Club (book): 
"He's building a wooden hand on the beach so that for one minute [he can sit] in the palm of a perfection he'd created himself." 

It's about love of creating something perfect.


----------



## rJames (Apr 21, 2014)

"Perfect?" I'm not so sure it is about perfect.

Is your wife perfect? Is your garden or your collection of guns (yeah, I was going for extremes here) or whatever you enjoy and seek out in your life perfect? Do the things we love have to be perfect?

I know its just a quote from a movie and not necessarily a personal belief, but I think wanting to sit in your own hand on the beach is more about ego than about love.

If you create because you want to display your reflection of perfection, then loosen up.

We should pursue perfection, but not use it as a metric of our creations.


----------



## Consona (Apr 22, 2014)

rJames @ Mon Apr 21 said:


> "Perfect?"


I like what Leonardo da Vinci supposedly said: _"Art is never finished, only abandoned."_ It is quite liberating sentence for perfectionists I think.


----------



## artsoundz (Apr 22, 2014)

This is directly related to my business of making commercials..It took me a while to "unlove" my stuff. Once I was able to let go of an idea, either because it wasnt working or a client wasnt nuts about it, once I was finally able to let go of it, it was substantially easier to write and produce what ultimately became better music. 
That isnt to say I dont love some of my stuff. Like others here, its fluid and seems to change over time with a few pieces holding on over the years.

To the mods- I'm on an ipad and realized I accidentally thumbed a report button. So, please ignore. In the spirit of balance, I'll report this post.


----------



## Astronaut FX (Apr 22, 2014)

So here's another slant...


...is it different for those that compose for a living versus those who do not? In other words, if you're doing this for a living, then I would suppose your primary agenda is to "create to order" and ensure that what you're delivering suits someone else's specifications to a large degree.

Whereas if you are composing/writing for your own sense of artistic expression, beholden to no one else, and without any other agenda, are you any more likely to love what you write? Perhaps because maybe you have more of a personal connection with it?

Discuss...


----------



## artsoundz (Apr 22, 2014)

I dont think I would have lasted long in my biz if I didnt care as much for that music as I do for my very personal music. 
It certainly wouldnt have been very fun.

Maybe the wife analogy is a good one.

My wife wouldnt be as enjoyable to me if my girlfriend wasnt very happy.


----------



## Hannes_F (Apr 23, 2014)

artsoundz @ Wed Apr 23 said:


> My wife wouldnt be as enjoyable to me if my girlfriend wasnt very happy.



So you have a wife _and _a girlfriend?

Ah, now I understand: You tell the wife you visit the girlfriend and tell the girlfriend you need to stay with the wife in order to go to the studio and have time for music. That's good.

:mrgreen:


----------



## Jimbo 88 (Apr 23, 2014)

I can "love" my own composition after i've heard it performed. If I hear an orchestra play something i put together, or a singer interpret my song. Until then it is something I'm working on. I think I fall in love with the performance more than the song. But the whole process is incredible to me.


----------



## JonFairhurst (Apr 23, 2014)

I've had the experience of listening to a "shuffle" and then a piece of music comes on that I can't name but is vaguely familiar and I really like it. And then I realize it's mine.


----------



## artsoundz (Apr 23, 2014)

Equote="Hannes_F @ Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:19 am"]


artsoundz @ Wed Apr 23 said:


> My wife wouldnt be as enjoyable to me if my girlfriend wasnt very happy.[/o
> So you have a wife _and _a girlfriend?
> 
> Ah, now I understand: You tell the wife you visit the girlfriend and tell the girlfriend you need to stay with the wife in order to go to the studio and have time for music. That's good.
> ...



I hope you know i was SO kidding. No wife no real girlfriend. 

4 imaginary girlfriends.

One cat.


----------



## kmlandre (Apr 23, 2014)

artsoundz @ Wed Apr 23 said:


> I hope you know i was SO kidding. No wife no real girlfriend.
> 
> 4 imaginary girlfriends.
> 
> One cat.



I have a wife and two kids, though I have considered trading in the kids for an imaginary cat, at least when I'm trying to write. Perhaps I can swap them with one of your imaginary girlfriend's imaginary cats? I picture them living all alone with hundreds of gossamer felines... 

But to the original point, I think I must be in the minority here: I generally love my stuff, though it's in the same way I love my kids. I love 'em to death, but there are some aspects that are just so FRUSTRATING. At some point you just have to shake your head and repeatedly chant "Can't control everything, moving on now"... 

There's so much potential in that the music sometimes comes so close to whatever I was "thinking/feeling" when I was writing it, but still that gulf between the glory and the dream...arrrrgh.

If I don't generally love a seed idea, I never pursue it in the first place. If I start working with it, I wrestle with it until I've reached the point where 99% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

Anyway, in the spirit of the aforementioned "post something you like", here's something I recently finished that falls into that category, mainly because lots of little experiments turned out well (IMHO). Or, as someone who's opinion I respect put it "yeah, I guess it's ok.". Gee, thanks. The enthusiasm is overwhelming... 

[flash width=450 height=65 loop=false]http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/144554121&show_artwork=true&visual=true[/flash]


Kurt M. Landre'
https://www.SoundCloud.com/kmlandre


----------



## artsoundz (Apr 23, 2014)

"I have a wife and two kids, though I have considered trading in the kids for an imaginary cat, at least when I'm trying to write. Perhaps I can swap them with one of your imaginary girlfriend's imaginary cats? I picture them living all alone with hundreds of gossamer felines... "

Intriguing...


----------



## FredrikJonasson (Apr 23, 2014)

I think I love my work, some of it however. So much time has been spent creating them, they are the result of my imagination and I find that "relationship" to be something very beautiful. And after all all, I write what I like! Music that I've gotten a very strong relationship to through many hours of work becomes more than just music in a way similar to what happens with a quality soundtrack to a favorite game or a track that is closely connected to someone close to me. 

But as someone pointed out pointed out, it's not about the music being perfect. It's about music having a special place in my heart for whatever reason.


----------



## Guy Rowland (May 21, 2014)

Just thought of this thread. I've had a bit of time to go back to a folly project of mine - I'm writing a soundtrack to my own screenplay. How delusional is that? I wrote the script years ago, have been tweaking a little more recently. Set in the 16th Century. Anyway, I wrote 4 cues last year and really liked them - well, three of them - and just done another. Yeah, I love it  It's such a weird but wonderful thing to write the story, characters AND the music, to bring out some of what you wanted in terms of tone and feel without any actual, you know, pictures or acting or anything.

I honestly do love it, like in the way I love my favourite scores... sounds egotistical I know but hey. Usually I'm nowhere near this positive about my stuff, though I vary wildly from hatred to like depending on what it is.

No idea what I intend to do with this supposed score to a script at this point, by the way, but I'm fully aware its a bonkers thing to do.


----------



## The Darris (May 21, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed May 21 said:


> Just thought of this thread. I've had a bit of time to go back to a folly project of mine - I'm writing a soundtrack to my own screenplay. How delusional is that? I wrote the script years ago, have been tweaking a little more recently. Set in the 16th Century. Anyway, I wrote 4 cues last year and really liked them - well, three of them - and just done another. Yeah, I love it  It's such a weird but wonderful thing to write the story, characters AND the music, to bring out some of what you wanted in terms of tone and feel without any actual, you know, pictures or acting or anything.
> 
> I honestly do love it, like in the way I love my favourite scores... sounds egotistical I know but hey. Usually I'm nowhere near this positive about my stuff, though I vary wildly from hatred to like depending on what it is.
> 
> No idea what I intend to do with this supposed score to a script at this point, by the way, but I'm fully aware its a bonkers thing to do.



I did the same thing Guy. I had the nerve to even post the music that I am sharing as of right now. WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME???!!!!!
https://soundcloud.com/christopher-harris/sets/waking-up-autumn-ost


----------



## Guy Rowland (May 21, 2014)

The Darris @ Wed May 21 said:


> Guy Rowland @ Wed May 21 said:
> 
> 
> > Just thought of this thread. I've had a bit of time to go back to a folly project of mine - I'm writing a soundtrack to my own screenplay. How delusional is that? I wrote the script years ago, have been tweaking a little more recently. Set in the 16th Century. Anyway, I wrote 4 cues last year and really liked them - well, three of them - and just done another. Yeah, I love it  It's such a weird but wonderful thing to write the story, characters AND the music, to bring out some of what you wanted in terms of tone and feel without any actual, you know, pictures or acting or anything.
> ...



That's great, Christopher. Sets up a tone for your story perfectly.

Have you done longer versions or is it only my madness that stretches to that? I'm thinking I'll post a mini-album's worth for whatever reason when I have a few more cues done - well if I like it just as music, others might I suppose. Really enjoying working with the themes and twisting them about as the story develops.

I think the stuff of my own I like best that I've done tends to be not commissioned. And actually the main reason for that is not so much creative freedom as I have more time to do it - I take less shortcuts and I can really work at something to get the right mood. There's never time for any of that pretentiousness on 10 minutes a day, the music always has to cut through the voice screaming in my head "HAVE YOU EVEN LOOKED AT THE TIMECODE LATELY?!!!!"


----------



## The Darris (May 21, 2014)

Guy Rowland @ Wed May 21 said:


> That's great, Christopher. Sets up a tone for your story perfectly.
> 
> Have you done longer versions or is it only my madness that stretches to that?



Not really. Just the simple theme and the variations in those tracks for context to different situations in the story. I am with you though, it is fun to manipulate the themes and work them into the context of the story as it unfolds. I wrote half of the screenplay years ago (04-05 ish) I just remember still being in high school. Since then, I have written out the rest of the story in a timeline/outline but haven't really put much effort into it as personal life and jobs have taken priority. When I wrote the original theme it was one of those personal connects that resonated with the universe I had created in my head for that story. Thus, I wrote some more music. I always come back to it once or twice a year and add more variations but I hope to finally compile it and make a full fledged album that tells the story musically. 

Needless to say, I totally understand where you are coming from.


----------



## Per Lichtman (May 21, 2014)

The short answer to the original question is that yes, I definitely love some of my pieces. That doesn't mean that I want them locked, unchanging with no thoughts for refinements or alternate approaches, it just means that when I listen to them, they resonate with me, connecting with something deep inside and bringing forth smiles, tears, laughter, anger or even fear. There are pieces of mine that have gone deep inside me and it was listening to music do that, before I ever wrote my own, that helped bring to composing in the first place.

Music is all about relationships: it's not all loving or falling in love or being in love, but that can definitely be part of it. So can frustration, compromise and the nagging feeling that there's something you're missing or that "if I don't change something, this isn't going to work out", struggling to understand and or having the music you gave birth to come back and say or teach something you never expected, even though it came from you. Honestly, I truly appreciate how rich the musical relationship can be.

On a somewhat simpler note, I find that how much I can love a piece of music also depends on how much room I can give it to be itself. My piano improvisations are among the pieces I give greatest freedom, because (since I am not a virtuoso pianist) I know they will have areas that could be executed with far greater technical expertise - so I just listen to them for the expression and let them carry me, as I hear what I played, either for myself or for someone else.

Perhaps one of the most poignant improvisations was "Our Night by the Lake", which I made years ago when I was still in love with someone that had left me, as I imagined seeing them again, in a place we'd never been, in a night we'd never had but with a love that my heart would never forget, long after she had left me behind. That is a piece I love.

So yes, sometimes I love my pieces.


----------

