# Do yourself a favor, discover Anne-Kathrin Dern if you haven't already. Composition series is really good viewing!



## SlHarder

Synchron Brass (by VSL) - Review


A review of @ViennaSymphonicLibrary 's Synchron Brass.Music Examples: John Williams - Harry Potter & Saving Private Ryan0:00 Intro0:24 Overview2:45 Setup4:2...




youtu.be













Ask Me Anything! (Part 4)


This video answers some audience questions sent to me via the comment section or social media. Drop more questions for Part 5 of the series!0:00 Intro0:45 Ho...




youtu.be





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Royalties and PROs - The Basics


This video goes over basic knowledge about performing rights organizations and the way they collect royalties for composers and publishers.0:00 Intro0:47 PRO...




youtu.be






Covid!











Chatting with: Anne-Kathrin Dern! (Film composer, songwriter, orchestrator, mockup artist)


►► How to Make Money as a Composer in 2020 and Beyond: Download the FREE guide → https://www.christophersiu.com/making-money-in-musicHey friends! In today's ...




youtu.be













Synchron Brass Review by Anne-Kathrin Dern


Anne-Kathrin Dern shares her view of our new Synchron Brass with a great mockup she did for this video (Hymn to the Fallen - "Saving Private Ryan", by John W...




youtu.be













Journey of a Modern Film Composer: What it Takes to Succeed


Journey of a Modern Film Composer: What it Takes to Succeed with Anne-Kathrin Dern moderated by Andrew Kesler




www.eventbrite.com






Her Youtube channel contains a WEALTH of personal experience and information. Her presentation is honest and without conceit. She covers nitty-gritty tech, and working as a composer and orchestrator, and mockups, and midi, and sample libraries and ...


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## el-bo

AKD is talented and makes great videos. She's also a member of this community


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## SlHarder

el-bo said:


> She's also a member of this community


When I now see others here referring to her as AKD I realize I was a little behind the curve. Hope this thread helps others discover her.


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## el-bo

SlHarder said:


> When I now see others here referring to her as AKD I realize I was a little behind the curve. Hope this thread helps others discover her.


Haha! I only shortened it like that because i replied from an iPad while in bed. Nothing more than laziness, on my part


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## robgb

What I love about Anne-Kathrin Dern is that she's proof that you don't need the latest and greatest and most extensive libraries to do amazing mockups. What you need is talent.


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## SlHarder

robgb said:


> What you need is talent.


She certainly has talent. In her vids she generously shares her talent and experiences and hard work. Her communication style is easily accessible for those of us not as gifted in the talent department. Her sample library reviews are definitely candid and based on extensive personal experience as she has worked in many composer shops.


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## SlHarder




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## A.Dern

SlHarder said:


> Her Youtube channel contains a WEALTH of personal experience and information. Her presentation is honest and without conceit. She covers nitty-gritty tech, and working as a composer and orchestrator, and mockups, and midi, and sample libraries and ...


Thank you so much for starting this love fest! It's always great to hear positive feedback about what I'm trying to do. I'm really happy so many people find my content useful.


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## jbuhler

A.Dern said:


> Thank you so much for starting this love fest! It's always great to hear positive feedback about what I'm trying to do. I'm really happy so many people find my content useful.


Excellent videos! But in each of the first two you neglected to show us the midi for the violas! Your virtual violas are feeling most neglected!


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## robgb

jbuhler said:


> Excellent videos! But in each of the first two you neglected to show us the midi for the violas! Your virtual violas are feeling most neglected!


Viola players are always neglected...


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## RSK

robgb said:


> Viola players are always neglected...


As they should be.

In all seriousness, I started watching her content about three months ago and she's a goldmine of insight. I was learning so much from her and Trevor Morris, but then Trevor fell off the planet or something. Haven't seen anything from him in quite some time.


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## muziksculp

Hi,

I have been a long time subscriber to ADK's YouTube channel. 

I really enjoy watching her video presentations, tutorials, and tips, and highly recommend subscribing to her YT channel. 

Thanks @A.Dern for all the effort, and time you put into making your very helpful videos on YouTube, and also being part of this forum. 

I just finished watching her part 2/3 of the Lord of The Rings video, the result was an awesome sounding mock up. 

I find it very interesting to see how many tracks she layers, be it for the Strings, or Brass, or Woodwinds, to achieve the sound she likes, and not be technical about how many sampled instruments are being used.

imho. the numbers of sample players does not add up linearly when layering, they just blend into each other to create a newer, richer, more complex timbre that often sound better, and more realistic than using one patch for i.e. 6 Horns from only one library. Also layering different articulations to add various characteristics is a good technique to use when that's needed. 

We need to use our ears, and not just rely on the titles of the patches we use. 

*Bottom line : Use your ears, if it sounds good, it is good. *

Cheers, 
Muziksculp


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## IFM

100% this. She's putting out some of the best content for us composers out of anyone currently. Amazing stuff.


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## Trash Panda

RSK said:


> As they should be.


Hey, be nice to those big-knuckled brutes. They didn’t ask to be born violists.


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## ReelToLogic

Thanks for the post. I just watched her overview of string and brass sample libraries. I think she has the most candid and honest comments I've seen in an on-line review and she speaks from personal experience with impressive credentials. Subscribed!


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## SlHarder

ReelToLogic said:


> I think she has the most candid and honest comments I've seen


My Youtube to-do list got a lot longer when I was referred to her channel. Isn't often that I want to watch everything on a channel.


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## Jeremy Spencer

Not only do appreciate her candid reviews and down-to-earth videos, but I totally dig Anne's music. Very inspirational.

I also have rediscovered CS2!


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## Valérie_D

There's much to love with Anne-Kathrin's tutorials, a great combination of talent, passion and nuts and bolts.


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## dariusofwest

Always a joy to watch Anne's content :D


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## SlHarder




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## ALittleNightMusic

You know, she makes it seem so simple, but when I try to do the same thing, my output sounds like sh*t in comparison. Great video once again!


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## Gingerbread

SlHarder said:


>



I'm so glad she touches on something that's been bugging me for awhile. She made a point of drawing in the automation, rather than performing it while playing.

I've heard so many others claim that one *must* mod-wheel in the automation while playing the part, in order to get a natural, realistic result. And this myth keeps getting repeated and reinforced over and over, as though it is received wisdom. But it obviously isn't true, as she demonstrates in the video. It's perfectly possible to get just as good a result by drawing in the automation afterward.

_Either_ approach can work fine; it comes down to preference, and knowing what you want it to sound like. Personally, I (usually) find it much easier to play in the part, and then deal with the modulation automation separately. The important thing is understanding the phrasing of the music, and how you want the mod data to affect it---if you know that, it doesn't matter which technique you use.


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## CT

At the risk of seeming like a LOTR pedant again, I do wonder what she's using as reference score here... some of the details are not quite as they are in the original! Not that it matters, as she does say this is about the demo process and not writing... those incidental parallel octaves in the high strings/basses sound more sensible though when the inner voices and orchestration are supporting them as originally written.


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## SlHarder

Gingerbread said:


> knowing what you want it to sound like


And that's really it in a nutshell.


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## A.Dern

Alexandre said:


> A really informative , smart youtube channel for composers...and she is a pretty woman which is a refreshing change from so many guys in the music world of tutorials in general!


Gee thanks, dude number 357 who feels entitled and comfortable to judge my appearance publicly. I'm so glad you approve of the way I look...


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## Evans

That Daniel James sure is a hot piece of somethin', ain't he?


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## Toecutter

Uh-oh... here we go


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## A.Dern

Evans said:


> That Daniel James sure is a hot piece of somethin', ain't he?


Not really helping because it's hardly the same. Every single day, some random dude(s) I don't know feels entitled to comment on my appearance - be it on my YouTube channel, on Facebook, on Instagram, in creepy private messages, out on the street, in the workplace... it's exhausting and it's never ever a compliment. Ever, guys. Just keep your thoughts to yourselves.


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## Evans

A.Dern said:


> Not really helping because it's hardly the same. Every single day, some random dude(s) I don't know feels entitled to comment on my appearance - be it on my YouTube channel, on Facebook, on Instagram, in creepy private messages, out on the street, in the workplace... it's exhausting and it's never ever a compliment. Ever, guys. Just keep your thoughts to yourselves.


I won't try to relate. Just thinking how absurd it is.


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## A.Dern

Evans said:


> I won't try to relate. Just thinking how absurd it is.


It is indeed. Thank you for understanding.


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## MauroPantin

Love the LOTR series! The mockups are almost indistinguishable from the real pieces. It really brings the entire process down to earth, IMO.


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## Evans

Slightly off topic from the LotR videos: every time I see the Bezier curves in Cubase 11 in these videos, my browser magically spawns a new Chrome tab for the Cubase 11 upgrade page. And then my mouse hovers over the "Upgrade" button. It's really weird. 

I wonder if purchasing it will get it to stop.


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## A.Dern

Evans said:


> Slightly off topic from the LotR videos: every time I see the Bezier curves in Cubase 11 in these videos, my browser magically spawns a new Chrome tab for the Cubase 11 upgrade page. And then my mouse hovers over the "Upgrade" button. It's really weird.
> 
> I wonder if purchasing it will get it to stop.


Honestly, the Cubase 11 upgrade has been my best purchase so far this year. These curves and the export functions - just perfection, and speeding up my workflow significantly. Totally worth it!


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## Alexandre

A.Dern said:


> Gee thanks, dude number 357 who feels entitled and comfortable to judge my appearance publicly. I'm so glad you approve of the way I look...


I apologize I certainly didn't mean to be offensive...i didn't think before writing.


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## A.Dern

Alexandre said:


> I apologize I certainly didn't mean to be offensive...i didn't think before writing.


No hard feelings. We all live and learn!


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## marclawsonmusic

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Great video once again!


I agree. @A.Dern, your videos are outstanding. 

The template series was super informative. I also really liked the 'move to LA?' video - very insightful. But the LOTR vids have been the most fun for me.

I originally checked out 'Anduril' just to hear if it was a good mockup (it was). But I wasn't expecting the masterclass on how you built that track... in only 2 hours!

For me, workflow has been a challenge. I've wanted to write faster, but I didn't know how. After watching the videos, I decided to rebuild my template with negative delays and multiple libraries for layering. I'm still working on it, but looking forward to the day when I can focus more on writing and orchestration than endless MIDI-tweak-and-nudge hell. 

Super-inspired by these videos!


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## A.Dern

marclawsonmusic said:


> I agree. @A.Dern, your videos are outstanding.
> 
> The template series was super informative. I also really liked the 'move to LA?' video - very insightful. But the LOTR vids have been the most fun for me.
> 
> I originally checked out 'Anduril' just to hear if it was a good mockup (it was). But I wasn't expecting the masterclass on how you built that track... in only 2 hours!
> 
> For me, workflow has been a challenge. I've wanted to write faster, but I didn't know how. After watching the videos, I decided to rebuild my template with negative delays and multiple libraries for layering. I'm still working on it, but looking forward to the day when I can focus more on writing and orchestration than endless MIDI-tweak-and-nudge hell.
> 
> Super-inspired by these videos!


I'm so glad the content I create is helpful! That's really the only purpose of the channel (though it has accidentally served a lot more than that). And my way of doing things is by no means the only way so take what you want and leave the rest. It's what I did as well - my workflow is a combination of the different workflows I've seen as part of composer teams. I took what I thought worked well and I skipped what I thought was less than ideal for myself. Different studios have very different reasons for doing what they do. If anything, I just want to de-mystify the process as much as I can.


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## Daniel James

Evans said:


> That Daniel James sure is a hot piece of somethin', ain't he?


wut?

BTW Everyone should be subbed to Anne! I have had the chance to work with her a couple of times on some gigs and her work really made me want to up my game to match her skills, she is so fucking good!. She is much more family-friendly too :D

Keep it up Anne!!!


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## Kony

Daniel James said:


> BTW Everyone should be subbed to Anne!


And to Anne's Soundcloud - really great tracks there!


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## SlHarder




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## Crossroads

@A.Dern As a man, I am appalled by some of the reactions you've gotten on here. I find it weird, and frankly, annoying that there can't go by a discussion of your work without mentioning you're a women and whatever that might bring with that. You are a composer, a fantastic composer, period. Everyone here, especially the beginners, would do themselves an absolute service by watching your videos.

I would, however, love to give you some advice. Those who make a point of you being a woman? Ignore them. And I know, I know this is easy talk because I'm not a woman and I don't know how it feels. I'm really, truly aware of that. But if you would just make your videos and not go into these discussions, the sooner this will all be over. I'm one of those people who actually call out my fellow men when they cross the line, because they so, so often do. I'm always leaning towards the explanation that it has something to do with what people learned when they grew up. The stereotypes, the ''boys will be boys'' attitude. I myself am going to work in healthcare, ''tradionally'' a '''women's'' job. I put both in hyphens because I have very serious doubts about both of those. 

I go into it because I would like to say to all those ''real men'' to man the fuck up and take care of your elders, because that's what real men should do! Of course this is stereotyping as well, I kinda mean it tongue in cheek.

I got off track. Don't let yourself be distracted. You do god's work by telling young composers what it's like to be in the business. You, Trevor Morris, Junkie XL, Secondtiersound, all belong to a group of people who do things not just for yourselves, but actually share industry ''secrets''. May god (or whomever) bless you. Be you. Always you. As I am trying to be myself. And be proud. Don't succumb to these assholes. People will always have an opinion. Not every opinion is worth going into.


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## alcorey

SlHarder said:


>



Twice as good the second time viewing it! This is really good for EVERYONE


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## SlHarder

FILM SCORING MECCA | Emerging composer Anne-Kathrin Elisabeth Dern - part 1 - Film Scoring Tips


Anne-Kathrin Elisabeth Dern is one of the most influencial emerging composers on the Hollywood scene. Learn about her best career tips!




filmscoringtips.com





3 part interview


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## SlHarder




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## KEM

Love her videos!! Great insight, always look forward to seeing a new video from her


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## bvaughn0402

I don't think she is on here anymore is she?


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## alcorey

bvaughn0402 said:


> I don't think she is on here anymore is she?


Anne is still here, look at the first page of this thread


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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder

Journey of a Modern Film Composer: What it Takes to Succeed


Journey of a Modern Film Composer: What it Takes to Succeed with Anne-Kathrin Dern moderated by Andrew Kesler




www.eventbrite.com


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## SlHarder




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## artomatic

@A.Dern Just a short note to thank you for sharing your time and exceptional talent.
Much appreciated!


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## jim2b

Ditto!!!

Jim


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## Tim_Wells

robgb said:


> What you need is talent.


Damn! I was afraid of that.


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## SlHarder

Anne-Kathrin Dern - Journey of a Modern Film Composer: What it Takes to Succeed. (July 31, 2021)
In case if you missed it or would like to watch it again, ASMAC is sharing this password-protected video link. Available until Sept 1, 2021

Video Replay Link
Private video on Vimeo​Join the web’s most supportive community of creators and get high-quality tools for hosting, sharing, and streaming videos in gorgeous HD with no ads.





Private video on Vimeo


Join the web’s most supportive community of creators and get high-quality tools for hosting, sharing, and streaming videos in gorgeous HD with no ads.




clicks.eventbrite.com




Password: Fearless
(case sensitive)


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## muziksculp

SlHarder said:


> Anne-Kathrin Dern - Journey of a Modern Film Composer: What it Takes to Succeed. (July 31, 2021)
> In case if you missed it or would like to watch it again, ASMAC is sharing this password-protected video link. Available until Sept 1, 2021
> 
> Video Replay Link
> Private video on Vimeo​Join the web’s most supportive community of creators and get high-quality tools for hosting, sharing, and streaming videos in gorgeous HD with no ads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Private video on Vimeo
> 
> 
> Join the web’s most supportive community of creators and get high-quality tools for hosting, sharing, and streaming videos in gorgeous HD with no ads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> clicks.eventbrite.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Password: Fearless
> (case sensitive)


Thanks for the link and PW.


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## SlHarder

muziksculp said:


> Thanks for the link and PW.


I needed the link also. I had signed up and then family time overlapped.


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## Miklós Vigh

SlHarder said:


> Anne-Kathrin Dern - Journey of a Modern Film Composer: What it Takes to Succeed. (July 31, 2021)
> In case if you missed it or would like to watch it again, ASMAC is sharing this password-protected video link. Available until Sept 1, 2021
> 
> Video Replay Link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Private video on Vimeo
> 
> 
> Join the web’s most supportive community of creators and get high-quality tools for hosting, sharing, and streaming videos in gorgeous HD with no ads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vimeo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Password: Fearless.
> (case sensitive)
> 
> #######


A good one, thank you!


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## robcs

I think the link to Soundcloud in an earlier post is to a publisher's account. 

Here's AKD's own channel: https://soundcloud.com/anne-kathrin-dern All Dern, all day


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## tc9000

I've been wanting to have another a crack at the whole 'lets build a template' thing and develop my orchestration and programming... and lo and behold, AKD has a series of superb template vids! Golddust! Now I have a shiny new base template and I'm working through AKD's first LOTR vid, alt tabbing between reaper and youtube and learning SO MUCH.

The simplicity yet perfection of those twin CC and expression curves on the arpeggio phrase were a true lightbulb moment for me. There's a similar sound in one of the vista demos that has always eluded me - now I think I know how to achieve it.

Also the approach of setting up negative track delay* + write in the notes and just straight up quantise that sh1t OMFG - goes against everything I thought was true, but then I _listen to the sound_ hahah - this is powerful stuff! But also the WHY of it - the simplicity of moving stuff around (and - whisper it - copying to other instruments! oh wow!) when you do it this way. The layering across libraries. The speed of working. DAMN! Yes - you still need ebb and flow, and _rubato_ (like this) but that comes from the tempo mapping....

Anyways thank you AKD for sharing your knowledge and experience so freely!

* then I remembered the negative track delay spreadsheet (link) that David Kudell started


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## SlHarder




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## Robin Thompson

SlHarder said:


>



"Clean your fucking MIDI."

Words to live by.  Thanks for another fantastic video Anne!


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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder

Nice movie and then at 3:50 Covid changed almost everything. Here's how they coped.


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## SlHarder




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## Bee_Abney

Dern's review of Afflatus was second to none. So much detail and insight and with a perspective open to how others might use it. Her advice on the business and on composing is also top notch. It's great to find someone who is a successful professional, a terrific composer, and a great communicator who takes so much time over her videos. 

I don't know why she wants to put so effort into these videos, but I'm grateful to her for doing so.


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## Pier

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't know why she wants to put so effort into these videos, but I'm grateful to her for doing so.


I'm guessing it's mostly marketing.

Maybe not so much about finding new clients per se, but making connections in the industry (eg: VSL). Also a video of yourself might be one of the best business cards ever.


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## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> I'm guessing it's mostly marketing.
> 
> Maybe not so much about finding new clients per se, but making connections in the industry (eg: VSL). Also a video of yourself might be one of the best business cards ever.


True, I suppose. I don't know how well it would pay off given the amount of effort involved. But in her line of work I expect you have to do what you can. I'd guess it's something she wants to do that she can also justify in terms of potential personal benefits.


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## Bee_Abney

Pier said:


> I'm guessing it's mostly marketing.
> 
> Maybe not so much about finding new clients per se, but making connections in the industry (eg: VSL). Also a video of yourself might be one of the best business cards ever.


Ah, not in my case...


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## alcorey

Bee_Abney said:


> True, I suppose. I don't know how well it would pay off given the amount of effort involved. But in her line of work I expect you have to do what you can. I'd guess it's something she wants to do that she can also justify in terms of potential personal benefits.


And just plain old "giving back"


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## alcorey

Bee_Abney said:


> Ah, not in my case...


Huh, And I pictured you 5 or 10 years younger than that


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## Bee_Abney

alcorey said:


> Huh, And I pictured you 5 or 10 years younger than that


It's an old picture. This one's more recent:


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## alcorey

Bee_Abney said:


> It's an old picture. This one's more recent:


yes, yes.......now I truly see the remarkable resemblance to your avatar - it's the same pose except your claws are in the picture also


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## Bee_Abney

alcorey said:


> yes, yes.......now I truly see the remarkable resemblance to your avatar - it's the same pose except your claws are in the picture also


That's right. I actually altered the photograph I use for my avatar to look more like me.


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## A.Dern

Bee_Abney said:


> I don't know why she wants to put so effort into these videos, but I'm grateful to her for doing so.


Glad you like the videos! The reason for the effort is simply that I don't half-ass things. Ever. If I'm not willing to give 100%, I might as well not do it in my opinion.


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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## Robin Thompson

These orchestration tip videos have been great, I hope there's more. Also, I'm appreciating more and more that Anne is _really funny_ sometimes. She has a perfect deadpan, and can drop an f-bomb with the precision of a brass sting. 😂


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## Bee_Abney

Robin Thompson said:


> These orchestration tip videos have been great, I hope there's more. Also, I'm appreciating more and more that Anne is _really funny_ sometimes. She has a perfect deadpan, and can drop an f-bomb with the precision of a brass sting. 😂


She has versatility!


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## SlHarder




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## Bee_Abney

SlHarder said:


>



This video is particularly educational and entertaining. It's really useful for the whole process, elements of composing, live recording, sample repair, mixing, and using sample libraries with these live performances.

It's all a lot of work, but results, well, in Anne-Kathrin's own words: 'It' s not shit.'


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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## ClaudioT

I discovered her channel a few days ago and I’ve been binging since.
Great content, super useful. I love it!
And tonight, before going to bed, I’m gonna watch a bit of Journey of a Modern Film Composer.


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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## RogiervG

Someone is a true fan, posting all the video links here


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## Bee_Abney

RogiervG said:


> Someone is a true fan, posting all the video links here



The videos are very well made, though, so I'm not complaining! Given where Dern is in her career (namely, busy and not on a plateau) I'm pretty amazed she chooses to do this. But I'm selfishly motivated to encourage her to keep going!


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## RogiervG

Bee_Abney said:


> The videos are very well made, though, so I'm not complaining! Given where Dern is in her career (namely, busy and not on a plateau) I'm pretty amazed she chooses to do this. But I'm selfishly motivated to encourage her to keep going!


oh don't get me wrong, i don't intent anything negative towards Anne. I just found it amusing to see someone taking the time to continuously post her youtube videos here, while in the first post that same person is well.. guiding us to her youtube channel


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## David Kudell

This Wednesday, stop by for the premiere of my 2 part interview with Anne-Kathrin. I'll be live in the chat and, who knows, AKD herself might make an appearance! See you there at 10am Pacific.


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## David Kudell

Here’s part 2 of our interview:
Anne-Kathrin Dern on ghostwriting, her hit YouTube channel, and enjoying the journey


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## Jeremy Spencer

David Kudell said:


> Here’s part 2 of our interview:
> Anne-Kathrin Dern on ghostwriting, her hit YouTube channel, and enjoying the journey



Lol! I love what she said about the "classical music community" accusing her of oversimplifying things. They need to get over themselves! Great interview.


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## A.Dern

Jeremy Spencer said:


> Lol! I love what she said about the "classical music community" accusing her of oversimplifying things. They need to get over themselves! Great interview.


You're gonna have a field day with the video I have coming out tomorrow then


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## robgb

David Kudell said:


> This Wednesday, stop by for the premiere of my 2 part interview with Anne-Kathrin. I'll be live in the chat and, who knows, AKD herself might make an appearance! See you there at 10am Pacific.



You had me at Philz Coffee.


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## David Kudell

robgb said:


> You had me at Philz Coffee.


I love Philz. Between the caffeine buzz and the fact it was freezing in the shade there, I think I was shaking the whole interview. Of course, by freezing, I mean like 62 degrees. It is California after all. We are not equipped to deal with cold.


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## Niah2

A.Dern said:


> You're gonna have a field day with the video I have coming out tomorrow then




Great video Anne !

I have a master's degree in Educational Psychology and you touched on two very fundamental ideas - everyone learns differently and the current educational systems are maintaining the current social hierarchy and not disrupting it.

Also on a personal note, it was due to the accessibility of our times that you mentioned in the video that I was able to discover that I could compose film music and other different styles. I have been visiting this forum since 2004 and it has helped me a lot particularly with tech stuff. Since then I have released 8 albums and have worked in several short films, feature documentaries, theatre, contemporary dance, concerts of improvised music, etc...


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## Pier

David Kudell said:


> Of course, by freezing, I mean like 62 degrees. It is California after all. We are not equipped to deal with cold.


I was wondering why you were so covered when it was super sunny


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## davidnaroth

David Kudell said:


> I love Philz


There are people who love Philz and there are people who havent tried Philz.


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## robgb

davidnaroth said:


> There are people who love Philz and there are people who havent tried Philz.


Yeah, first time I had it I think my head nearly exploded. I couldn't believe how good it was.


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## Jeremy Spencer

We have “Phil’s” here in Alberta, best coffee and pancakes north of the border. If anyone is in the area, we can go there for a coffee and do an interview 😺


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## A.Dern

davidnaroth said:


> There are people who love Philz and there are people who havent tried Philz.


Philtered Soul, extra creamy and sweet, is LIFE! 💕


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## Bee_Abney

So, taking on jazz and classical music, two countries' education systems and thereby the idealogical, social and economic underpinnings of them; offering up theories of objectivity in mathematics and music whilst implicitly attacking ideas that link the two.

Hmm. So, um, I'm taking a few steps back and preparing to run.


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## Markrs

Niah2 said:


> master's degree in Educational Psychology


I have the exact same masters degree, mine from the university of Bristol. Was a real eye opener on how we learn, think and our behaviours.


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## Markrs

I got poor grades at school, I come from a single parent family on welfare in social housing, and went to one of the poorest schools in the UK during the 80s (which was not a good time for British education).

I did eventually do a degree in Business, Masters in Educational Psychology and 3 years of a PhD in Human Computer Interaction and Behaviour change. On paper that looks like someone who is academic but I _really_ struggled with all of them. I got into each course because of to the learning I did outside of them.

Self learning through curiosity is what I love and when it becomes linear is when I struggle. I really value learning outside of academic environments. This is the same for studying music.

I have managed UX teams for many years and in each company I have worked for I have made then remove the academic requirements to get a job in my team. That degree in most cases does not make you any better. You can learn more these days by cheap courses, YouTube, some good books and mainly by doing.

I really hate gatekeepers and barriers for those that don’t have the _right _education or the _right_ parents or the finances to pay for expensive education or unpaid internships. Sadly there is a reason why there is so little social mobility, it is not to do with education but opportunity and access.


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## Niah2

Markrs said:


> I have the exact same masters degree, mine from the university of Bristol. Was a real eye opener on how we learn, think and our behaviours.


Awesome ! I studied in Portugal where I'm from and totally agree with you it was a real eye opener.


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## A.Heppelmann

Excellent video, @A.Dern. I was reminded of an experience I had as a composition professor at a university a few years ago. I was in charge of reviewing prospective undergrad student applications, and there was one particular student who was far and away the most creative and talented composer among all applicants. She was writing music that a lot of masters students weren't capable of. However, she apparently wasn't a strong enough performer (voice, if I recall), and in order to be a composition undergrad, she would need ensemble credit. I urged the voice faculty to reconsider their own rules, but no one gave a damn, and ultimately she wasn't accepted. That was just one of many reasons I don't miss working in academia


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## A.Dern

Bee_Abney said:


> So, taking on jazz and classical music, two countries' education systems and thereby the idealogical, social and economic underpinnings of them; offering up theories of objectivity in mathematics and music whilst implicitly attacking ideas that link the two.
> 
> Hmm. So, um, I'm taking a few steps back and preparing to run.


I am currently hiding under a weighted blanket, so there's that... 😅


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## Bee_Abney

A.Dern said:


> I am currently hiding under a weighted blanket, so there's that... 😅


It was one of your best videos, and - in passing - one of the funniest too!


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## ChickenAndARoll

Honestly, taking AP Music Theory in high school allowed me to learn anything else I wanted on my own without going to music college by reading books on topics (jazz harmony, orchestration, counterpoint, etc.), studying scores, transcribing, and just playing in live settings such as jazz combos and community pit orchestras. My friends who went to music college tell me that they think I know more theory than them! 

Once you get past the initial hurdle of learning to read music and understanding the basics of key signatures and how to build chords, everything past that is not difficult to learn, it just simply takes time (maybe it's an expedited process for those who go to school for music, but like Anne said, it's not a necessity for everyone and you can learn it independently). Great video!


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## NoamL

You're right about this Anne.

IMO the biggest thing against academic composer programs: they teach people to be composers not composer assistants, which just isn't realistic about how this field works. They're selling the dream not the reality. Of course if they focused on training people very well to land in LA and be assistants, then there would have to be a conversation about why some of these schools are charging $200k and taking 2 to 4 years to output "assistant-ready" people...

Hard truth is someone who just landed in LA with a bachelor's degree in music technology is probably better off than someone who just landed with a master's in "film scoring."


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## Jeremy Spencer

A.Dern said:


> You're gonna have a field day with the video I have coming out tomorrow then


Bravo! That was pure gold. I'm actually quite shocked at the snobbish gateway elitism you experienced with trying to get into those schools, truly unbelievable. And the elitists telling you not to share your knowledge on YouTube? I think they are simply very insecure, jealous individuals who need to get off their high horses. If there's anything I've learned in my journey as a composer, it's that you need to develop a very thick skin and to laugh at rejection....right in its face. As you and many of us have proven, passion and perseverance pays off. I've actually had the personal satisfaction of getting chosen for big projects while competing with composers who said I wasn't good enough. Karma is a bitch!

Keep up the good work, Anne!


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## Gerbil

I studied at a conservatoire (and now teach part-time at one) first and foremost as a musician, to be around other musicians who could push my standard up. I ended up composing while I was there as a student, but my selected joint first studies were piano and percussion, partly because I always felt uncomfortable with the way the composition faculty was run. The ‘approved’ styles were vigorously endorsed at the expense of greater creative freedom and there was a stranglehold from Faber-backed composers in the UK that remains to this day (check the proms this year: Thomas Ades and Julian Anderson for the umpteenth time).

Anne’s thoughts are bang on the money in so many ways, but I will say that, if you do want to study the classical side of things and hear your results, it does help to have decent musicians available to play your work for free on a regular basis and you’ll find them at conservatoires and good universities.


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## robgb

A.Dern said:


> Philtered Soul, extra creamy and sweet, is LIFE! 💕


I'm a Tesora man myself.


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## CT

Gerbil said:


> The ‘approved’ styles were vigorously endorsed at the expense of greater creative freedom and there was a stranglehold from Faber-backed composers in the UK that remains to this day (check the proms this year: Thomas Ades and Julian Anderson for the umpteenth time).


What, you don't think every new symphonic concert piece should require a dozen percussionists and two pages of program notes to ostensibly make the music intelligible?!


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## Evans

I'm really sick of the beautiful views at the beginning of these videos that make me want to move yet again. Gonna cost me more than a few VI purchases, that's for sure.

But actually don't stop please. I'm stuck in central Florida for a while longer.


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## MarcusD

"Not everybody thrives in an academic environment" - This is very true.

I'm a kinesthetic learner (bit dyslexic) and always found it extremely difficult to learn anything taught in an academic environment. Learning something requires to be hands on, seeing / hearing something being explained practically. Back at school (not sure if this is true now) they didn't really cater for those who learned differently. They never structed classes around different needs.

Those who couldn't learn / do well in class, were treated differently and put in 'special needs' classes. Teachers taught in the same fashion, but the information was primary school level. Which they thought would make it easier for students to learn. Ironically, completely ignoring HOW people learned. Which even now, people overlook.


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## davidnaroth

A.Dern said:


> Philtered Soul, extra creamy and sweet, is LIFE! 💕


Absolutely! I always rotate through them so I dont get tired of it, but Philtered Soul is the MVP.


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## SlHarder




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## PedroPH

She's totally right.


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## Bee_Abney

So the clear implication of Dern's reasoning is that _if _you know what you are doing, you get _better_ results with _better _gear.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have all we need to 'justify' continued acquisition right there. Just add self-delusion.


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## el-bo

SlHarder said:


>



The irony being that I've wanted EW Symphonic for quite a while now, and this video has just increased the G.A.S


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## gamma-ut

Bee_Abney said:


> So the clear implication of Dern's reasoning is that _if _you know what you are doing, you get _better_ results with _better _gear.



This is often use-case driven. To take Anne-Kathrin's camera example a bit further, there is a dramatic difference in function between one of the top-end SLRs and the consumer/prosumer models when it comes to things like auto-focus and shutter response (ie does it have to sit and think for a while after you hit the button) – as well as what happens if you drop it. 

The higher-end cameras _always_ take the shot and it will 99% of the time be focused just right automatically. But if you're taking landscapes, none of that matters. Similarly, if you're shooting at f/16, the lens probably doesn't matter either. At f/2.8, you will notice clear differences in bokeh and other out-of-focus things under tricky lighting conditions. But a landscape at nine in the morning? Who cares?

Conversely, if you have no idea how the focus options work – Nikon has a number of distinct modes and your life is made a lot easier – it will often go wrong. And this can be worse on the higher-end products because they have a zillion selectable focus targets where a cheap point-and-shoot has a few in the centre and takes its best chance. 

Photography forums are hilarious at times because you will see people rag on the lens they've got the way people bang on about legatos here and on the rare occasions where they post the Raw file with the focus settings in the metadata you can often see they've got the focus target in entirely the wrong place, they've used a wide-area average mode where some objects are several metres further away than others or they simply don't understand how auto-focus works in that you need to find a target with clear, sharp lines*. "But this lens has got back-focus". Yeah, OK, whatever. 

tl;dr - the expensive thing is likely to be better under more extreme conditions or requirements but 90% of the time won't seem to make much of a difference.

* Hint for budding portrait photographers: aim for an eye, not the cheek or the nose.


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## Bee_Abney

gamma-ut said:


> This is often use-case driven. To take Anne-Kathrin's camera example a bit further, there is a dramatic difference in function between one of the top-end SLRs and the consumer/prosumer models when it comes to things like auto-focus and shutter response (ie does it have to sit and think for a while after you hit the button) – as well as what happens if you drop it.
> 
> The higher-end cameras _always_ take the shot and it will 99% of the time be focused just right automatically. But if you're taking landscapes, none of that matters. Similarly, if you're shooting at f/16, the lens probably doesn't matter either. At f/2.8, you will notice clear differences in bokeh and other out-of-focus things under tricky lighting conditions. But a landscape at nine in the morning? Who cares?
> 
> Conversely, if you have no idea how the focus options work – Nikon has a number of distinct modes and your life is made a lot easier – it will often go wrong. And this can be worse on the higher-end products because they have a zillion selectable focus targets where a cheap point-and-shoot has a few in the centre and takes its best chance.
> 
> Photography forums are hilarious at times because you will see people rag on the lens they've got the way people bang on about legatos here and on the rare occasions where they post the Raw file with the focus settings in the metadata you can often see they've got the focus target in entirely the wrong place, they've used a wide-area average mode where some objects are several metres further away than others or they simply don't understand how auto-focus works in that you need to find a target with clear, sharp lines*. "But this lens has got back-focus". Yeah, OK, whatever.
> 
> tl;dr - the expensive thing is likely to be better under more extreme conditions or requirements but 90% of the time won't seem to make much of a difference.
> 
> * Hint for budding portrait photographers: aim for an eye, not the cheek or the nose.


Of course, I was joking about how we can always continue to find ways to persuade ourselves to do or believe things as it suits our inclinations (and not always or even often to our own advantage!).

But better gear does not necessarily mean newer, more sophisticated or more expensive. I agree that it is also contextual - the gear that is better for the job at hand. And to go further into the context, the gear that is better for me to use given the job at hand - as in, use one I know how to use well.

I missed whether Dern mentioned when she was using that library to get jobs. I wonder if it would be more of a problem now. She said herself that she could make a better sounding mock up using better libraries. It depends in part on who you are trying to persuade, and how good they are at using mock ups to discern the skill in using them, or the suitability of the compositions and skills for their hiring needs.


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## Sarah Mancuso

I think debating whether EWSO mockups would be good enough to get jobs with today is kind of missing the point, though. What I got from the video wasn't that everyone should specifically use the library she was using when she started out, but rather that we'd all be better off really learning to make good use of what we already have, because just about any of it can fill that role.

She even says in the video that libraries today are generally more capable than what was available or affordable when she started, so the idea definitely isn't that we should all go back to 2003...


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## gamma-ut

Bee_Abney said:


> I missed whether Dern mentioned when she was using that library to get jobs.



She talks about when she and her writing or production partner ran into problems with Play just ahead of a recording session which caused her to abandon it at that point. I'd have to go back and check if she mentions a year but she did say she bought it around 2007, around when it went Kontakt to Play – there was a big sale on it at that time if memory serves.



Bee_Abney said:


> Of course, I was joking about how we can always continue to find ways to persuade ourselves to do or believe things as it suits our inclinations (and not always or even often to our own advantage!).



Don't worry, I got that. I just saw the opportunity to make a point.


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## Jeremy Spencer

I still use good ol' EW Symphonic Orchestra as my primary percussion, FX, harpsichord and some solo instruments. I scored a lot of productions using the old Kompakt version (Gold XP) and it earned me a good amount of $$. The strings, especially, have come a long way since then (primarily legatos), but it's definitely a good idea to question if you actually need to buy that next library. If you don't already know what's legitimately missing from your current toolbox, then you most likely don't need it. We are all guilty of GAS though, myself included.


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## MartinH.

SlHarder said:


>



@A.Dern I love it when someone uses such an old tool just for the lulz and no one can tell :D. Great mockup and video!


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## kitekrazy

MartinH. said:


> @A.Dern I love it when someone uses such an old tool just for the lulz and no one can tell :D. Great mockup and video!


I started out with Turtle Beach soundcard using Cakewalk Home Studio and Voyetra DOP and they ran through a Yamaha midi playback software. As for creating it's been a serious decline. I'm more into learning how to create Trance and get sucker into buying more orchestra libraries when they are cheap. There is also this reality that you can hoard to the point of almost maxing out a system of 8TB storage. Every cheap library puts you further away from upgrading to SSDs. 

There is a DAW forum where they post challenges of creating using certain instruments that have been around. Imagine a GPO, IK Miroslav 2, Kontakt factory challenge and only using those.


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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder

And another really good episode of "Composition".


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## SlHarder

And the first episode


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## b_elliott

SlHarder said:


> And the first episode



Watched and was surprised at how pedal tones lept off a full score I have recently been following/listening.

After I got thru Ms Dern's show and tell, it was vividly clear from the score's intro (Bluebeard's Castle) pedal tones start in the strings, then switch to the winds, along with melodies then counterpoint 'tween vox, clarinet, oboe, then ostinato (broken pedals) in low strings = bad ass.

A new viewpoint for me-- dare I say how a conductor might view 20+ bar-deep scores? I am grateful for Dern and for your vi posting. Mucho gracias...


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## SlHarder




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## SlHarder




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## b_elliott

So I watched Dern's Orchestration Books video.

tl;dr There's some useful stuff in the Piston _Orchestration_ book.

===============
After searching online for orchestration books I found a pdf for Piston's _Orchestration_.

I gave the Piston a run thru today while listening to Mozart, Piano Concerto No. 22 in E flat with score.

Piston on Orchestration: [Book Forward]

Orchestration definition: the process of writing music for orchestra, using principles of instrumental combination ... [found] operating in the scores of Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven.

Piston brings up an interesting point: "...almost every recording produces sounds that do not exist in the score." 

I found this to be true as I followed the Mozart score, especially with a few piano flourishes; or, some missing string lines -- likely buried due to poor recording tech.

Skip to Ch 19 _Types of Texture, Type 1 Orchestral Unison_:

*Main Purpose*: Discover how the orch gets used to convey the composer's thought.

*Vital*: Do not make a meal of the analysis (i.e., overthinking it.) Simply look to see why & how the composer did certain things. Sometimes, it is by luck, or no good reason.)

Tip 1: First follow one inst. through the score to see/hear its role.
Tip 2: Choose a familiar work as a starting point.
Tip 3: Hear in your head what you see in the score.* Use a piano to help orient to the pitch. 
[* I have since discovered, Adler's _Study of Orchestration_ acknowledges Piston for stressing this facility.]
Tip 4: closely look at the separate elements in shorter segments. Opt to skip over problematic areas until one is more skilled.

*1st step*: MUSIC TEXTURE: Where are the melodies, harmonic background, pedal tones, counterpoint, rhythmic elements in the score? Recognize the elements + textures.

*2nd step*: What Instrument groups are used: strings, winds, brass, perc, etc. (Example: Varese uses tons more perc than a normal classical score.)

*3rd step*: compare how contrasting elements and inst. distributions appear. I.e., a melody moving from strings to the woodwinds (canon); any soloed instruments(s); solo inst moves to tutti orch or solo piano to string accompaniment; any ensemble combos (piano and strings or woodwinds...).

*4th step*: look at each element separately; examples: how pedal tones are used -- octave doubling? or some other interval?; part writing for string section or amongst the winds; tuttis.

Part 2 to follow. 
Best, Bill


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## b_elliott

Part 2:

First listen + score study Mozart's Piano Concerto No 22 in Eb: I followed the piano part.

After initial playthrough it was clear Mozart featured his piano using several orchestral elements:

- no piano until 2 1/2 min in (= admirable restraint);

*Solos* for piano, also briefly in the woodwinds, and for strings;

*Duets*: pno + strings
pno + ww
strings + ww

*Tuttis*: Intro, also after the first piano solo.

------------------------------

Take-away: Since I am not planning to write orchestral or film music any time soon, I'd refine orchestration study for hobby needs:

- hear the score in my head while looking thru the score;
- fast fwd to a section I want to zero in on;
- quick analysis that gleans some useful insight;
- go back to my own project to implement the insight.

Hope this helps another orchestration aspirant. Cheers,
Bill


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## SlHarder




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## b_elliott

UTubers take notice. Aside from great data on reverbs, this video demonstrates a perfect balance of voice to background music. 
She gets it.


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## ALittleNightMusic

Nice in-depth video on orchestration


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## Bee_Abney

ALittleNightMusic said:


> Nice in-depth video on orchestration



This was a live stream, which is a great way of doing it. I could only catch a few minutes live, though.


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## Germain B

Bee_Abney said:


> This was a live stream, which is a great way of doing it. I could only catch a few minutes live, though.


Actually, it was a premiere on YouTube with the chat activated. AKD was also there, answering questions in the chat.
At first glance I also thought it was a live stream as I thought Ann was reading the chat while explaining her orchestration's choices.


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## Bee_Abney

Germain B said:


> Actually, it was a premiere on YouTube with the chat activated. AKD was also there, answering questions in the chat.
> At first glance I also thought it was a live stream as I thought Ann was reading the chat while explaining her orchestration's choices.


Oh, I see! That makes a lot of sense. I thought it was live, but I dropped in quite early and when I saw some comments by her, I figured they had been made before she got started. But, yes, if she wants to interact with people, having a premier with chat is a good idea too.


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## SlHarder




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