# Kirk Hunter String bundle: how old are some of these libraries and what's the difference between 'em



## Goldie Zwecker (Mar 9, 2017)

I saw they're on sale on audioplugin for $99 instead of $1200.
But that doesn't mean anything to me, otherwise i would be buying everything audioplugindeals or vstbuzz throw at me. 

So anyway i saw that this bundle is comprised of Concert Strings Legacy, Concert Strings 2 and Concert String 3. The latter is from 2015 and the one with the most online demos. I specifically liked the divisi function and how it sounds. 
For strings i have Spitfire Symphonic strings and Chamber strings - and the embertone solo strings. 
The Kirk hunter sounds different for sure - and specifically when you lower the number of players. 
So anyway, concert strings 3 sounds nice, but what are the other two? I didn't quite understand if they have different articulations, or are they just former versions and audioplugindeals are just cramming stuff together to make you feel like it's "a no brainer deal", while the first two libraries are just old and don't sell very well. 
Can someone shed a little light on this?


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## gregh (Mar 9, 2017)

You probably have a fair point - I am assuming the old stuff is not worth downloading in which case think of it as a 75% off sale for Concert String 3. Still good value for me at least. And if the other ones are different then that's a bonus.

sadly though Kirk Hunter libraries cannot be sold secondhand - would be a bonus to onsell those older versions


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## MillsMixx (Mar 9, 2017)

I'm curious about this too. I have a lot of string libraries including the Albions, 8Dio, and a lot of the starter libraries like Symphobia so I'm wondering if this would be overkill. But hey at that price! I do like the sound from what I hear in the demos as they sound quite different than some of the stuff I already own. Anyone own these libraries and can offer some insight? How's the legato, does it sit well with other libraries, etc. I've seen the video's but nothing like some feedback from people who might own this.


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## Fleer (Mar 9, 2017)

Well, I can say from some introductory checking that it's quite different indeed. I saw a vid by someone called Chandler arguing that it's a 60s-70s style strings library, and that's a good description in my book. It adds a very distinct flavor to my EastWest, Embertone and Spitfire strings. And it has some of the best fast movements as well as very playable vibrato. Now, back to the library.


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## Quasar (Mar 9, 2017)

I think your point is obvious and correct, that they're bundling the older stuff to inflate the supposed value of the sale. I did purchase this tonight because I made the decision that KHCS3 alone was worth it, and I've downloaded KHCS2 as well (unpacking now).

I may or may not grab the Legacy product, but want to learn more about it after I've explored and had a chance to compare v3 and v2.


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## robgb (Mar 9, 2017)

I don't know about it being a 60s-70s style string library. It's a string library, and a lot depends on what you do with it. I have KH Diamond, which includes the Chamber Strings (I don't know which version) and I can say that they sound fine and are good for layering, but are nothing spectacular. I honestly rarely use them, but for the price I think it's a good deal.


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## LamaRose (Mar 9, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> I did purchase this tonight...



I'm curious to find out your appraisal of the library... v3 in particular. I really liked the sound of the divisi script performances. If those hold up in your estimation, then $99 would be well spent for me. Thanks!


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## Ashermusic (Mar 10, 2017)

I posted about this in the other thread.


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## Quasar (Mar 10, 2017)

LamaRose said:


> I'm curious to find out your appraisal of the library... v3 in particular. I really liked the sound of the divisi script performances. If those hold up in your estimation, then $99 would be well spent for me. Thanks!


Sorry, but I don't have much to offer at this point. I spent a little bit of time last night with v2 and v3, and a bit more this morning. It's going to take me some time to wrap my head around all of the functions in the respective UIs (which is very different in 3 than in 2)...

The sounds in v3 are very good, very clean and crisp, and everything from the legato overlap to the "slur on overlap" to the adjustable staccato lengths etc. work as expected. The default vibrato settings are very high, but can be easily turned down. The divisi does intelligently divide the voices based on the number of players (4 to 16) chosen, but if you just play notes and chords as though it were a piano the drop-offs will often appear to be random (no doubt because when playing triads or beyond the MIDI info won't be transferred at precisely the same time), so the "intelligent" divisi behavior is going to take some getting used to. Initial impression is that it works fine if you trigger notes to its capabilities, and you wouldn't play a v-string as though it were a piano anyway...

v2 I've concluded is not redundant, but - besides being able to go all the way to solo (and the solo violin really isn't bad, first impression) - it has a lot more snarl and "attitude", perhaps more akin to some of the dynamic bowings in 8Dio's Agitato. It's also much wetter, and I haven't yet dove in to figure what, if anything, can be done in terms of close-far mics and reverb settings. The so-called Bartok pizzicato and other shorts are terrific, and it has a pattern library that I haven't yet explored.

The UI in v3, while complex and eccentric, looks at least potentially tameable without undo study and effort. But v2 looks rather intimidating, nightmarish even. I'm going to definitely have to study the documentation as though I were taking a college course to make sense of it. But both the sounds and articulations are there for anyone who is willing and able to learn how to navigate the interface.

Also, in 5.6.6 at least, the playable keys are colored, but none of the keyswitches have color displays at all. Not a deal breaker, but it would be nice if they did.

Just my initial, amateur thoughts. I'm glad I availed myself of the deal. No regrets or buyer's remorse here. Haven't downloaded the Legacy package yet.


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## Fleer (Mar 10, 2017)

CS3 goes down to 4 players from 16 if I'm not mistaken. Nice alternative to solo strings offerings like Embertone or Chris Hein where you can use their ensemble mode. I also appreciate that CS3 is only 9 GB in size.


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## Quasar (Mar 11, 2017)

Fleer said:


> CS3 *goes down to 4 players from 16* if I'm not mistaken. Nice alternative to solo strings offerings like Embertone or Chris Hein where you can use their ensemble mode. I also appreciate that CS3 is only 9 GB in size.


This is correct. I now have v3 and v2 on my SSD, but am having trouble finding any information as to whether the legacy adds anything and is worth downloading...

...I know the obvious answer is to try it and see, but it's 30 GB or so, I do have a bandwidth cap (though this is seldom an issue) and HD space isn't infinite... Does anyone have both KHCS1 and KHCS2 for offering a comparison? The v1 is said to be strings from the Diamond Orchestra, which I know nothing about.


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## dhowarthmusic (Mar 11, 2017)

I loaded the legacy


Tugboat said:


> This is correct. I now have v3 and v2 on my SSD, but am having trouble finding any information as to whether the legacy adds anything and is worth downloading...
> 
> ...I know the obvious answer is to try it and see, but it's 30 GB or so, I do have a bandwidth cap (though this is seldom an issue) and HD space isn't infinite... Does anyone have both KHCS1 and KHCS2 for offering a comparison? The v1 is said to be strings from the Diamond Orchestra, which I know nothing about.


I have them all loaded onto my system. Checking them out now. It seems legacy are older samples compared to Concert strings 2 but they still sound good to my ears. Legacy sounds slightly more distant and more mellow sound compared to Concert Strings 2. I would download it. Legacy sections also seem to have 9 players for the half sections instead of 8 players in Concert Strings 2. You also get an extra solo violin in legacy which has a strong vibrato which can be good for blending in which a full section.


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## Quasar (Mar 11, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> I loaded the legacy
> 
> I have them all loaded onto my system. Checking them out now. It seems legacy are older samples compared to Concert strings 2 but they still sound good to my ears. Legacy sounds slightly more distant and more mellow sound compared to Concert Strings 2. I would download it. Legacy sections also seem to have 9 players for the half sections instead of 8 players in Concert Strings 2. You also get an extra solo violin in legacy which has a strong vibrato which can be good for blending in which a full section.



Thanks of the observations. That's enough for me to hear, especially since it's already paid for. Will download tonight, late, after peak hours.


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## Fleer (Mar 11, 2017)

Same here!


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## dhowarthmusic (Mar 11, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> I loaded the legacy
> 
> I have them all loaded onto my system. Checking them out now. It seems legacy are older samples compared to Concert strings 2 but they still sound good to my ears. Legacy sounds slightly more distant and more mellow sound compared to Concert Strings 2. I would download it. Legacy sections also seem to have 9 players for the half sections instead of 8 players in Concert Strings 2. You also get an extra solo violin in legacy which has a strong vibrato which can be good for blending in which a full section.





Tugboat said:


> This is correct. I now have v3 and v2 on my SSD, but am having trouble finding any information as to whether the legacy adds anything and is worth downloading...
> 
> ...I know the obvious answer is to try it and see, but it's 30 GB or so, I do have a bandwidth cap (though this is seldom an issue) and HD space isn't infinite... Does anyone have both KHCS1 and KHCS2 for offering a comparison? The v1 is said to be strings from the Diamond Orchestra, which I know nothing about.


Sorry my last post I mentioned the Concert Strings 2 were brighter than the Legacy but I got confused as both patches look almost the same in Kontakt. After playing them again it seems


Goldie Zwecker said:


> I saw they're on sale on audioplugin for $99 instead of $1200.
> But that doesn't mean anything to me, otherwise i would be buying everything audioplugindeals or vstbuzz throw at me.
> 
> So anyway i saw that this bundle is comprised of Concert Strings Legacy, Concert Strings 2 and Concert String 3. The latter is from 2015 and the one with the most online demos. I specifically liked the divisi function and how it sounds.
> ...


I just made a demo of all 3 libraries so you can hear the difference between them all. I will post it later. They are all good in my opinion and I also also own Spitfire Chamber Strings plus all the top string libraries. This package compares equally in my opinion when using in an arrangement and not playing the sounds solo. Concert Strings Legacy have a more mellow darker tone. Concert Strings 2 is a little brighter sounding and Concert Strings 3 is good too with a more neutral and dryer tone. You get so many string sounds its a bit overwhelming as there are so many patches to choose from in the Legacy and Concert Strings 2. 

You can also blend all three libraries together and it sounds amazing. One thing that is better than my Spitfire libraries is you get much more control over the vibrato as the Spitfire performance patches have only one fixed vibrato which you can bring the level up or down but not change the character or intensity of it. If you blend Concert Strings Legacy or Concert Strings 2 with the vibrato control on with your Spitfire libraries you will get a great sound. Concert Strings 3 vibrato is a little more mellow but it can be very dramatic on the Legacy and Concert Strings 2 to sound more like the Rachmaninov longs in Spitfire Symphonic Strings but the Kirk Hunter sounds smoother to my ears as his legato programming is excellent. It's a bit of a learning curve but I now use my Kirk Hunter libraries above my Spitfire Chamber Strings and other libraries I used to use.


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## Quasar (Mar 11, 2017)

In my websearch for KHCS1 info I ran into this YouTube video from 2011, using Concert Strings 2 and Pianoteq. The description includes a link to the original synced video and soundtrack for comparison purposes. I thought it was pretty cool:


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## dhowarthmusic (Mar 11, 2017)

If anyone wants to hear the differences between the three libraries I made a demo tonight of each library playing the same midi file. It's an excerpt from Rachmaninov's 2nd Symphony (The Birman Theme).

1. Concert Strings Legacy
2. Concert Strings 2
3. Concert Strings 3

For anyone who has the Diamond Orchestra then you already have most of the sounds from Legacy and Concert Strings 2. Concert Strings 2 includes Solo Strings 2 which is not included in the Diamond Orchestra and has more velocity layers than the solo strings in the diamond orchestra.

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/1-birdman-theme-kirk-hunter-concert-strings-legacy-mp3.7708/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/2-birdman-theme-kirk-hunter-concert-strings-2-mp3.7709/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/3-birdman-theme-kirk-hunter-concert-strings-3-mp3.7710/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/1-birdman-theme-kirk-hunter-concert-strings-legacy-mp3.7708/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/2-birdman-theme-kirk-hunter-concert-strings-2-mp3.7709/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/3-birdman-theme-kirk-hunter-concert-strings-3-mp3.7710/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## and- (Mar 11, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> ...v2 I've concluded is not redundant, but - besides being able to go all the way to solo (and the solo violin really isn't bad, first impression)...


In Concert Strings 3 it is possible to go all the way down to solo, as I understand. Violin section consists of 16 players, and you can choose either of them or any combination of them. See here at 4:02


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## dhowarthmusic (Mar 11, 2017)

and- said:


> In Concert Strings 3 it is possible to go all the way down to solo, as I understand. Violin section consists of 16 players, and you can choose either of them or any combination of them. See here at 4:02



It seems you can only go down to 4 players now in CS3. I guess you have to buy Spotlight Strings or Chamber Strings 3 to go down to a solo violin, duo or trio.


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## re-peat (Mar 12, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> The sounds in v3 are very good, very clean and crisp




Sure about that, Tug?_Very good, very clean and crisp?_

Having become a little curious after reading all these enthusiastic comments here and in other threads, I decided, against better judgement, to have a listen to some demos, and I found Chandler's *YouTube-video*. (I also isolated some audio from that video *here*, for quick convenience).
Just to be clear: that is, I assume so anyway, a demo to show us how wonderful the library sounds, and not how awful it sounds.

Now, I can think of loads of adjectives to describe these sounds with, but 'good', 'clean' and 'crisp' certainly aren't among them. Unless Chandler really messed with the sound of this library to a perplexingly extreme degree, these stringsamples rank amongst the worst I have ever heard. KH has a most impressive track record when it comes to ghastly samples, but he may well have raised the bar again with this new library.

_


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## Vik (Mar 12, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> It seems you can only go down to 4 players now in CS3


Yes, I think so but there's a workaround: since one has individual pan and volume control for all the players, you can turn down the volume for all but one player.


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## dhowarthmusic (Mar 12, 2017)

When you try it the volume for each player won't go below 66 so it definitely won't let you solo any of the first 4 players!


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## Vik (Mar 12, 2017)

Oh, I see. It worked when I tried, but I only have the demo version so far - and maybe that's not based on CS3. Thanks for the info.


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## dhowarthmusic (Mar 12, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Sure about that, Tug?_Very good, very clean and crisp?_
> 
> Having become a little curious after reading all these enthusiastic comments here and in other threads, I decided, against better judgement, to have a listen to some demos, and I found Chandler's *YouTube-video*. (I also isolated some audio from that video *here*, for quick convenience).
> Just to be clear: that is, I assume so anyway, a demo to show us how wonderful the library sounds, and not how awful it sounds.
> ...


I was also horrified when I saw this demo on youTube but the guy who made it obviously doesn't know what he is doing and there is something seriously wrong with his sound. The library is actually not that bad.


Vik said:


> Oh, I see. It worked when I tried, but I only have the demo version so far - and maybe that's not based on CS3. Thanks for the info.


Yes it works in the demo version but it seems to have been taken out on the CS3 1.3 update.


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## and- (Mar 12, 2017)

*dhowarthmusic*
Thank you for this clarification. I remember reading not long time ago on Kirk's website that Concert Strings 3 are "the new solo strings". Pity it was taken away. Nevertheless, IMO the library is still very flexible in terms of section sizes.


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## re-peat (Mar 12, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> I was also horrified when I saw this demo on youTube but the guy who made it obviously doesn't know what he is doing and there is something seriously wrong with his sound. The library is actually not that bad.



I would happily want to take your word for it, David, but then I hear *this* (posted *here*) and it tells the exact same story: unbelievably bad sound. While perhaps not reaching quite the same extremes of hideousness as the Chandler demo does, I have to say this is a pretty abysmal too.

These forums are awash with questions from people seeking advice on how to improve the quality of their mock-ups. The first paragraph in any serious answer to such and similar questions should, in my opinion, always be: “Whatever you do, never ever use Kirk Hunter samples. Under no circumstances. No budget can be so small, no person can be so desperate and no musical taste can be so bad to justify making a mistake that will have such a disastrous impact on your work.”

_


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## MatFluor (Mar 12, 2017)

Well, the KH CS3 is not a "instant gratification" library for sure. I'm not as experienced as other here, but I managed to get a worthwhile sound out of them (EQing mainly).

The Rachmaninoff piece does not sound great, but it's also pretty much "out-of-the-box". Every library needs some tweaking, be it reverb, EQ, panning or in hard cases manual scripting.

If you consider buying it, be aware what you need. If you need to fill a specific "hole" in your template, download the Demo and play around with it to see what the samples are like (and what you can do about the sound if you don't like it). I like the amount of control over everything, playability etc.

Alright, enough Semi-Offtopic from me 

I don't know about the age of the samples/libraries to be honest.

Greets,
Mat


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## Quasar (Mar 12, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> When you try it the volume for each player won't go below 66 so it definitely won't let you solo any of the first 4 players!


I tried this workaround too, and that's what I get. It does seem odd that you get solo in the earlier versions but not in v3. To call v3 an updated version of v1 or v2 is eccentric naming convention to say the least. It's just a whole different library, and not a continuation of anything else from what I can tell.


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## Ryan99 (Mar 12, 2017)

I was surprised to not see re-peat before now to try to bash once again Kirk Hunter. I don't know what this guy has against him, but it's personal, so takes his comments with a grain of salt. He will tell you that Kirk Hunter products are bad. I own some products from Kirk Hunter, as are other users, so use a variety of opinions to make up your mind, not just the cliche comments he's making for years.

Just a friendly warning as I'm not affiliated in any way to Kirk Hunter, just a satisfied user.

As people can see from the recent demos posted on the various actual threads about Kirk Hunter, we are far from disaster here.


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## Quasar (Mar 12, 2017)

re-peat said:


> Sure about that, Tug?_Very good, very clean and crisp?_
> 
> Having become a little curious after reading all these enthusiastic comments here and in other threads, I decided, against better judgement, to have a listen to some demos, and I found Chandler's *YouTube-video*. (I also isolated some audio from that video *here*, for quick convenience).
> Just to be clear: that is, I assume so anyway, a demo to show us how wonderful the library sounds, and not how awful it sounds.
> ...


I guess you dislike them. OK... But they are clean and clear, to my ears at least, insofar as they don't have a pre-baked so-called "cinematic" character applied to them (a la CS2), and are thus potentially useful in a variety of settings.

Adjectives such as "ghastly" are about as subjective as it gets, so I can't say that you're wrong, because that's how they sound to you. So unless you're looking for that classic "ghastly" sound straight out of the box, you might want to pass on this sale.


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## Fleer (Mar 12, 2017)

Have to say I'm getting the same feeling after having read most existing threads on Kirk Hunter. Apparently there's one (1) guy bashing him in the strongest verbose, but most (if not all) other users are quite positive. When I add in this deal's price point, I'm very pleased I jumped. I really like what I hear in Concert Strings 3, and still have to download Concert Strings 2 as well as Concert Strings Legacy.


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## Quasar (Mar 12, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Have to say I'm getting the same feeling after having read most existing threads on Kirk Hunter. Apparently there's one (1) guy bashing him in the strongest verbose, but most (if not all) other users are quite positive. When I add in this deal's price point, I'm very pleased I jumped. I really like what I hear in Concert Strings 3, and still have to download Concert Strings 2 as well as Concert Strings Legacy.


I'm pleased that i jumped too. I would not have paid Spitfire money for this, not because the strings sound bad, but because for the BIG $$$ there are more user-friendly UI options with the newer NI compression not found in v1 and v2, and presumably a more advanced scripting architecture in general... But the bang-for-buck is hard to argue with.


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## GULL (Mar 12, 2017)

Anybody tried patterns in CS 2? I am not able to trigger patterns. Not sure what I am missing. Is there a detailed help document available?


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## robgb (Mar 12, 2017)

If you're looking for solo strings from Kirk Hunter, check out his Spotlight Solo Strings, which are pretty terrific.


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## EuropaWill (Mar 12, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> It seems you can only go down to 4 players now in CS3. I guess you have to buy Spotlight Strings or Chamber Strings 3 to go down to a solo violin, duo or trio.


Are you sure about this, The video clearly shows the ability down to the 4 soloists in Concert Strings 3. It would be false advertising to show that feature in the video, have someone buy it and then it not be there. Why would it be removed? That is the feature that makes me most interested in CS3. Can anyone else confirm this from their recent download?


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## GULL (Mar 12, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> The video clearly shows the ability down to the 4 soloists in Concert Strings 3


Yes. You can go down to 4 soloists. Not 1 soloist.

EDIT : 'soloist' is a misnomer here


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## EuropaWill (Mar 12, 2017)

I pulled this off of KH's website just a few minutes ago. It clearly shows the Stage box in the upper right. Which allows you to Select "Solo, Duet, Trio and Quartet" in addition to Ensemble sizes of 12, 8, 6 and 4. Are you saying the Solo, Duet, Trio's are no longer available in the interface? Alternately are you unable to de-select 3 of the 4 soloists in the Soloists section on top leaving one player only?


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## GULL (Mar 12, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> I pulled this off of KH's website just a few minutes ago. It clearly shows the Stage box in the upper right. Which allows you to Select "Solo, Duet, Trio and Quartet" in addition to Ensemble sizes of 12, 8, 6 and 4. Are you saying the Solo, Duet, Trio's are no longer available in the interface? Alternately are you unable to de-select 3 of the 4 soloists in the Soloists section on top leaving one player only?



Now I got it.
But they must have been changed since you saw it. Here is how the screen looks now (installed)

There is no solo, duet, trio options available


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## GULL (Mar 12, 2017)

And, you can mute the chairs but not soloists


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## chibear (Mar 12, 2017)

@GULL: You're missing something in your installation. If it's a demo maybe parts are disabled.

Sorry I'm late to the game  I've been using CS3 since it's release and have had several email conversations with Kirk about the library (and no I'm not affiliated with Kirk Hunter). I've put together a short video of tips that may ease you on your KH journey and yes I realize I deviate from the accepted path.


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## GULL (Mar 12, 2017)

chibear said:


> @GULL: You're missing something in your installation. If it's a demo maybe parts are disabled.
> 
> Sorry I'm late to the game  I've been using CS3 since it's release and have had several email conversations with Kirk about the library (and no I'm not affiliated with Kirk Hunter). I've put together a short video of tips that may ease you on your KH journey and yes I realize I deviate from the accepted path.




hm.... I think I installed as it was instructed. But the part is missing in my UI and it is not a demo (as I know it).


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## GULL (Mar 12, 2017)

chibear said:


> @GULL: You're missing something in your installation. If it's a demo maybe parts are disabled.
> 
> Sorry I'm late to the game  I've been using CS3 since it's release and have had several email conversations with Kirk about the library (and no I'm not affiliated with Kirk Hunter). I've put together a short video of tips that may ease you on your KH journey and yes I realize I deviate from the accepted path.




I can confirm that the user guide pdf shows the same UI. It is changed I guess


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## chibear (Mar 12, 2017)

Contact Kirk directly and he'll sort it out. I'm not sure where the contact info is on the new website.


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## MatFluor (Mar 12, 2017)

To clear things up a bit:

Soloists are disabled in CS3. The video tutorial is older when it was still in there (I'm not sure why Kirk Hunter took it out), but in one of the overview videos from KH (I don't remember which one though) was an overlay (those nagging red things you can put in youtube videos - annotations I think they are called) which state that in the current version Soloists are unavailable in CS3.

Greets,
Matthias


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## GULL (Mar 12, 2017)

chibear said:


> Contact Kirk directly and he'll sort it out. I'm not sure where the contact info is on the new website.


I will try. But I remember somewhere in the video in product page said what @MatFluor says.

I have a quick question. May I am bit slow but I am not able to trigger pattern in CS 2. How to switch on or off patterns?


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## LamaRose (Mar 12, 2017)

If you watch the videos, Kirk clearly indicates, via a text box, that you can no longer go below a quartet in CS3.


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## Fleer (Mar 12, 2017)

LamaRose said:


> If you watch the videos, Kirk clearly indicates, via a text box, that you can no longer go below a quartet in CS3.


Serendipitous coincidence that a similar deal brought us the Embertone Solo Strings a month ago. Good blend indeed.


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## dhowarthmusic (Mar 12, 2017)

chibear said:


> @GULL: You're missing something in your installation. If it's a demo maybe parts are disabled.
> 
> Sorry I'm late to the game  I've been using CS3 since it's release and have had several email conversations with Kirk about the library (and no I'm not affiliated with Kirk Hunter). I've put together a short video of tips that may ease you on your KH journey and yes I realize I deviate from the accepted path.



You are using an earlier version and the new version 1.3 which comes with the bundle doesn't go down to less than four players anymore. I'm presuming Kirk wants you to buy his Chamber Strings if you like Concert Strings 3 as that is the same as Concert Strings 3 but just the first 4 solo violins.


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## chibear (Mar 12, 2017)

I'll have to make a note NOT to upgrade. Those soloists are pretty much my favorites to this point.


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## Quasar (Mar 12, 2017)

LamaRose said:


> If you watch the videos, Kirk clearly indicates, via a text box, that you can no longer go below a quartet in CS3.



I can live with this, but it seem kind of low-rent to arbitrarily remove a feature, presumably to sell something else that has it.


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## Fleer (Mar 12, 2017)

Seems strange indeed if so, yet everything I read about Concert Strings 3 describes "four to sixteen" player sizes. Anyway, the ability to change these sizes as a user is interesting indeed, similar to the ability in some solo strings libraries to use ensemble mode, as Embertone offers.


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## EuropaWill (Mar 12, 2017)

They should have kept those solo players included in Concert Strings 3. That was the selling point driving my interest in this sale. Its very odd to still have videos on their website that show functionality down to the soloist (even if there is a message saying its no longer supported) and to remove the feature arbitrarily to drive sales to Chamber Strings 3 or Spotlight Strings.


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## GULL (Mar 12, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> They should have kept those solo players included in Concert Strings 3. That was the selling point driving my interest in this sale. Its very odd to still have videos on their website that show functionality down to the soloist (even if there is a message saying its no longer supported) and to remove the feature arbitrarily to drive sales to Chamber Strings 3 or Spotlight Strings.


Right. But CS 2 has solos


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## EuropaWill (Mar 12, 2017)

Pretty sure those are different samples with hard baked vibrato. Right? And the UI is reportedly a bear to deal with.

I'm honestly a bit confused with the offerings. If Chamber Strings 3 has only 4 soloists why is it priced $299 when Spotlight Strings which has 4 soloists is $125?


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## chibear (Mar 12, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> Pretty sure those are different samples with hard baked vibrato. Right? And the UI is reportedly a bear to deal with.
> 
> I'm honestly a bit confused with the offerings. If Chamber Strings 3 has only 4 soloists why is it priced $299 when Spotlight Strings which has 4 soloists is $125?


The CS2 soloists have a mod wheel controlled vibrato note baked in; however at the beginning you can hear the vibrato 'pop' in rather than sneak in like in Spotlight or CS3.

Checked the UI on the website and Chamber Strings 3 is definitely the missing section from Concert Strings 3, so 4 soloists per instrument. Spotlight is the predecessor to CS3 where the programming was first introduced. It was noticeably improved in CS3 (and Chamber Strings 3, obviously) with better sound, a different solo violin, and better approach to the cello IMO.


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## GULL (Mar 12, 2017)

@chibear How good the legacy strings solo instruments are in your experience?


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## sostenuto (Mar 12, 2017)

GULL said:


> @chibear How good the legacy strings solo instruments are in your experience?


Glad to see your question as I was sliding fast, in the wrong direction, in terms of purchasing this Bundle. 
Very new here and will stay positive, but this seems like a (use local term) 'low-rent' game, taking solo features away to enhance other offerings. 

Really not impressed, even being a career, techy, marketing dude. I mean business is business, but seems like an old shell game (especially when very new to orchestra libraries) with minimal 'value added' , mainly moving features around. 

Hey! ... would love to hear that I'm quite wrong


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## Fleer (Mar 12, 2017)

Well, found a kvr-thread from almost a year ago with Kirk Hunter saying:
"Concert Strings 3 - You can create sections ranging in size from 4 - 16 players."
And: "Spotlight Solo Strings - You can create sections ranging in size from 1 - 4 players." Seems the same difference between both was as accurately described back then as it is now.
(https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=225&t=463762)

Edit: link added.


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## chibear (Mar 12, 2017)

I don't have the legacy product. I believe it's the soloists from Diamond orchestra, which was out of my price range when I first encountered it. It was those string soloists that originally attracked me to Kirk's products, however.

BTW I agree with the comments concerning removing the soloists from CS3. That's a pretty bizarre strategy. Originally Chamber Strings 3 was offered as a subset of CS3.


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## gregh (Mar 12, 2017)

perhaps the soloist removal and bundle offer are linked as part of an ongoing strategy where ensemble and soloist offerings will be separate products each with their own development cycle. The bundle offer indicates that change is from now (oops, just saw the kvr link so this happened a while back).

I am still pleased with this bundle - there are solo strings in CS2. I think I will get my $99 worth 

just to note, the instructions for CS3 mention soloist quite a bit and say the number of soloists depends on the instrument. I have not played with this feature enough to understand it


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## LamaRose (Mar 12, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> I can live with this, but it seem kind of low-rent to arbitrarily remove a feature, presumably to sell something else that has it.



This is particularly true if you had purchased the earlier version and then updated!


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## sostenuto (Mar 12, 2017)

gregh said:


> perhaps the soloist removal and bundle offer are linked as part of an ongoing strategy where ensemble and soloist offerings will be separate products each with their own development cycle. The bundle offer indicates that change is from now (oops, just saw the kvr link so this happened a while back).
> 
> I am still pleased with this bundle - there are solo strings in CS2. I think I will get my $99 worth



Good to hear, yet no clue where I stand as new Diamond Symphony Orchestra user, contemplating KH String Bundle, and hoping to enhance/expand. Great news if $99. gets some desirable capabilities. Otherwise, puzzled where to turn next. 
Perhaps Diamond is challenge enough now and should put head down and check later ?


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## pmcrockett (Mar 12, 2017)

Impressions after using the demo of Concert Strings 3 (first violins):

Not a fan of the tone. It's too strident for my taste, and there's not much dynamic contrast. (Sounds like there's only one dynamic layer?) Gotta mostly agree with re-peat on the demos I've heard -- they range from okay to terrible, and a lot of them sound like they were recorded in a closet, which may be due to the default reverb/mic settings not sounding good or the fact that the ensemble is stacked solo recordings. The interface provides a lot of customization options, but these options don't improve the core sound of the library.

My interest is in layering with Hollywood Strings and not in using the library on its own. Layering gives a more in-your-face character to Hollywood Strings, but you lose some of Hollywood Strings' timbral nuance. I think Embertone's Friedlander Violin in ensemble mode blends better with HS and does less damage to HS's basic sound, so I can't see using Concert Strings 3 in my template.

And removing soloist functionality in a library update is a real eyebrow-raiser. You're supposed to add stuff in updates, not take it away. It's like the opposite of the living library paradigm.


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## robgb (Mar 12, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Good to hear, yet no clue where I stand as new Diamond Symphony Orchestra user, contemplating KH String Bundle, and hoping to enhance/expand. Great news if $99. gets some desirable capabilities. Otherwise, puzzled where to turn next.
> Perhaps Diamond is challenge enough now and should put head down and check later ?


If you own Diamond, I'm not really sure why you would need this bundle. The TVEC 4 (or whatever it's called) instruments have a bunch of articulations and section sizes, down to solo, and all the sections are available separately as well. I'm not sure what you gain by owning CS3. I'd suggest, instead, that you look at 8dio's Adagietto, which I believe is still $119 and it's a pretty amazing library that blends perfectly with KH Diamond strings.


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## sostenuto (Mar 12, 2017)

robgb said:


> If you own Diamond, I'm not really sure why you would need this bundle. The TVEC 4 (or whatever it's called) instruments have a bunch of articulations and section sizes, down to solo, and all the sections are available separately as well. I'm not sure what you gain by owning CS3. I'd suggest, instead, that you look at 8dio's Adagietto, which I believe is still $119 and it's a pretty amazing library that blends perfectly with KH Diamond strings.



Your focused comment is appreciated! Will look at Adagietto now. 
Easy to get pumped with first sight of this KH Promo, but so glad for V.I.:Control and so many informative Posts.

Regards


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## Fleer (Mar 12, 2017)

I particularly like blending Kirk Hunter with EastWest Hollywood Diamond. Gives it the often needed "edge" I crave for.


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## markleake (Mar 12, 2017)

robgb said:


> If you own Diamond, I'm not really sure why you would need this bundle. The TVEC 4 (or whatever it's called) instruments have a bunch of articulations and section sizes, down to solo, and all the sections are available separately as well. I'm not sure what you gain by owning CS3. I'd suggest, instead, that you look at 8dio's Adagietto, which I believe is still $119 and it's a pretty amazing library that blends perfectly with KH Diamond strings.


I think you make a very good point @robgb. There are potentially very good alternatives that would be worth investigating beyond this KH deal, for those who are lacking in the string library department.

Some of the demos I've heard of this that are out of the box (not tweaked) sound very unconvincing. [Edit: Although I've got to say that with the video that @re-peat found, which I also found yesterday, I think the guy may have had the articulations on a controlled tremolo patch, which explains why they sound so wierd].

I don't own any KH libraries myself so can't say for sure, but from the demos I think you need to expect these not to be as 'ready to go' as some other similar priced libraries, and will need some tweaking.


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## amorphosynthesis (Mar 13, 2017)

My 2 cents:
I would definetely avoid buying this,and would save a couple of 100$ to spend on eg css or lass lite or cs2 or hollywood strings gold ....or even more to get to the bigger price group such as spitfire or vsl or berlin. Honestly, I have KHCS3 and never ever used it once.it feels like strings recorded with 'not so good' equipment ...at least this is how i feel.first listen to the sound because what you hear is what you get


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## mouse (Mar 13, 2017)

This is more of a generic question than directed at this product. How can strings with one dynamic layer sound any way good? What exactly is done to make that single dynamic layer usable? Eq?


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## Ashermusic (Mar 13, 2017)

Fleer said:


> I particularly like blending Kirk Hunter with EastWest Hollywood Diamond. Gives it the often needed "edge" I crave for.



Me too. When I want lush but defined I add CSS to HS and when I want more grit I add KH CS2. Sometimes KH CS 3 with CSS sounds good as well.


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## EuropaWill (Mar 13, 2017)

mouse said:


> This is more of a generic question than directed at this product. How can strings with one dynamic layer sound any way good? What exactly is done to make that single dynamic layer usable? Eq?


Do the various string packages in this offer only have 1 dynamic layer for the legatos, longs and shorts? Seems the specfications avoid mentioning it, can't find that anywhere. Does timbre change with velocity, or just volume?


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## mouse (Mar 13, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> Do the various string packages in this offer only have 1 dynamic layer for the legatos, longs and shorts? Seems the specfications avoid mentioning it, can't find that anywhere. Does timbre change with velocity, or just volume?



Users in this thread have mentioned it has only 1 dynamic layer yes


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## chibear (Mar 13, 2017)

In my email conversations with Kirk on CS3 a couple of years ago on CS3 I seem to remember him mentioning several dynamIc layers (maybe 8, but not sure). If you check out 'Threnodic Sketches' on my soundcloud page, whatever you think of the instruments or composition (and yes I wanted it to sound that rough), I think there is ample evidence for timbre change (in the case of CS3 either via velocity or CC#). Same goes for CS2 BTW. Can't speak for legacy as I don't own it.


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## robgb (Mar 13, 2017)

mouse said:


> Users in this thread have mentioned it has only 1 dynamic layer yes


I can't imagine that it would only have one dynamic layer.


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## EuropaWill (Mar 13, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> If anyone wants to hear the differences between the three libraries I made a demo tonight of each library playing the same midi file. It's an excerpt from Rachmaninov's 2nd Symphony (The Birman Theme).
> 
> 1. Concert Strings Legacy
> 2. Concert Strings 2
> ...



I must say that these do a surprisingly good job of delivering that homogeneous soaring golden age Hollywood sound. This theme probably puts the library in one of its most flattering positions. 

Do you have other examples showing how they all compare on handling fast moving shorts, and with more variation in dynamics showing timbral range?


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## LamaRose (Mar 13, 2017)

I downloaded the demo which has a limited subset of articulations. As far the sound... well, it doesn't exactly have the immediate "wow" factor that many other libraries have. There does seem to be a lack of dynamic layers, expressiveness, air, etc, etc... some would call that _chamber-esque_... which can be a good thing. And to suggest that one could not create realistic, emotive string arrangements with CS3 is misleading. My ears say that there is merit in the library.

The big disappointment for me was the divisi live functionality which was my main interest in the library. Maybe it was disabled in the demo? If not, then it's very hit-and-miss with hitting chords and notes cutting off unexpectedly. There are no looped sustains in the demo, so maybe that's the issue. Perhaps Jay or dhowarthmusic could chime in on this.

I'm pretty picky with strings, but I'm also openminded and objective. If divisi live functioned more consistently and smoothly - and maybe the fully functional library is consistent - then I could definitely have a field day with CS3 as a writing tool for string arrangements.


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## goldglob (Mar 13, 2017)

The KH CS3 demo seems to have a broken interface (appearance). The forum won't let me link to a jpg screenshot (new member), but the main thing is that all the sliders look like the usual Kontakt slider up in the 'Kontakt' panel. In fact the interface looks the same as what you see when you open the script editor [Edit: Since solving the problem I realize that what was in the script editor was broken too.]
Is anyone seeing this?


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## sostenuto (Mar 13, 2017)

goldglob said:


> The KH CS3 demo seems to have a broken interface (appearance). The forum won't let me link to a jpg screenshot (new member), but the main thing is that all the sliders look like the usual Kontakt slider up in the 'Kontakt' panel. In fact the interface looks the same as what you see when you open the script editor.
> Is anyone seeing this?



This is mine right now.


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## goldglob (Mar 13, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> This is mine right now.


Ok thanks, yours looks as it should be, my demo download must be corrupt or something...I'll download again.


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## dhowarthmusic (Mar 13, 2017)

LamaRose said:


> I downloaded the demo which has a limited subset of articulations. As far the sound... well, it doesn't exactly have the immediate "wow" factor that many other libraries have. There does seem to be a lack of dynamic layers, expressiveness, air, etc, etc... some would call that _chamber-esque_... which can be a good thing. And to suggest that one could not create realistic, emotive string arrangements with CS3 is misleading. My ears say that there is merit in the library.
> 
> The big disappointment for me was the divisi live functionality which was my main interest in the library. Maybe it was disabled in the demo? If not, then it's very hit-and-miss with hitting chords and notes cutting off unexpectedly. There are no looped sustains in the demo, so maybe that's the issue. Perhaps Jay or dhowarthmusic could chime in on this.
> 
> I'm pretty picky with strings, but I'm also openminded and objective. If divisi live functioned more consistently and smoothly - and maybe the fully functional library is consistent - then I could definitely have a field day with CS3 as a writing tool for string arrangements.


Turn off the legato feature by unchecking Leg Perform and maybe the Interva underneath that too and it will be much smoother and not hit and miss when you play chords. Even with legato switched off the legato is still smooth and you can play chords no problem. It is also still divisi as when you play chords it splits the notes up between the number of players you have selected.


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## dhowarthmusic (Mar 13, 2017)

Anyone with Concert Strings 3 I just discovered that if you hit the sustain pedal when releasing a note it has a long sustained natural fading decay of the note rather than just cutting off. Pretty cool feature!


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## sostenuto (Mar 13, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> Anyone with Concert Strings 3 I just discovered that if you hit the sustain pedal when releasing a note it has a long sustained natural fading decay of the note rather than just cutting off. Pretty cool feature!



Thank-you. Cool !

As an Orch 'learner' these subtle things would likely not be picked up. 
Makes it even tougher to pass on this promo with so much to cover, even by those quite experienced.


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## EuropaWill (Mar 13, 2017)

goldglob said:


> Ok thanks, yours looks as it should be, my demo download must be corrupt or something...I'll download again.


I've noticed a few people in this thread mentioning downloading the demo. Where exactly is there a demo to download and try? Can someone provide a link ?


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## goldglob (Mar 13, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> I've noticed a few people in this thread mentioning downloading the demo. Where exactly is there a demo to download and try? Can someone provide a link ?


Site, products, Concert Strings 3, scroll down, Product Features, Requirements, Try a test version...I know, very obscure..I only stumbled upon it by chance. And alas there is not the same for all the products.


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## goldglob (Mar 13, 2017)

Funny that the pdf for the Spotlight Strings demo says that the demo doesn't have looped samples, but it DOES, whereas the pdf for the Concert Strings 3 demo doesn't mention this, but it DOES NOT have looped samples.


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## goldglob (Mar 13, 2017)

goldglob said:


> Ok thanks, yours looks as it should be, my demo download must be corrupt or something...I'll download again.


Downloaded again..working now..thanks again sostenuto.


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## sostenuto (Mar 13, 2017)

goldglob said:


> Downloaded again..working now..thanks again sostenuto.



Thanks back to you !!! Did not know there was a Demo of Spotlight Strings. I do now


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## dhowarthmusic (Mar 13, 2017)

For anyone complaining about the sound of Concert Strings 3 I just noticed that if you uncheck the Human Pitch button then it sounds much better and less out of tune.


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## goldglob (Mar 13, 2017)

Must say I'm impressed with all the keyswitch and cc control (KH CS3 Demo). Is this the strong point? I'm a newcomer to these sort of libraries..never had things like LASS, Vienna etc (in fact half the time I don't know what you guys are talking about with all the acronyms)...but this thing sounds pretty good to me.


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## LamaRose (Mar 13, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> Turn off the legato feature...



Thanks... big improvement. I don't have a keyboard at the house tonight, but it sounds smooth using the Logic keyboard. Will give it a proper run-through tomorrow.


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## Quasar (Mar 13, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> *Turn off the legato feature by unchecking Leg Perform and maybe the Interva underneath that too and it will be much smoother and not hit and miss when you play chords*. Even with legato switched off the legato is still smooth and you can play chords no problem. It is also still divisi as when you play chords it splits the notes up between the number of players you have selected.



Been trying to figure out how to play chords/multiple note combos in KH CS3 without seemingly random dropouts, and this did the trick...And yes, the divisi splits still work fine, but are now controllable and predictable, which is awesome. THANKS!


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## Fleer (Mar 13, 2017)

Thank you very much indeed. Making my CS3 experience even more worthwhile. I'm loving this.


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## skallman (Mar 13, 2017)

Here are two renditions of Vaughn-Williams "Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis", one played with Concert Strings 2 and the other with Concert Strings 3 and Spotlight Solo Strings.

Apologies in advance for the CS3 version. I've only been using Concert Strings 3 and Spotlights Strings for a few days even though I've owned the libraries since last year.

https://app.box.com/shared/oet5er4u3v


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## Fleer (Mar 13, 2017)

And how would you compare CS3 to CS2 in the meantime?


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## Vischebaste (Mar 14, 2017)

re-peat said:


> I would happily want to take your word for it, David, but then I hear *this* (posted *here*) and it tells the exact same story: unbelievably bad sound. While perhaps not reaching quite the same extremes of hideousness as the Chandler demo does, I have to say this is a pretty abysmal too.
> _



Thorsten, didn't re-peat post a tirade about your videos a while back? Good to see that he's undergone a conversion and is now linking to them to bolster his argument!


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## Ashermusic (Mar 14, 2017)

OK, I have no desire to be Kirk's happy warrior again as I used to be, because he doesn't need me to, but here is an older piece I found in an early state (not sure what happened to the later state) It was all Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 3, Concert Strings Brass 2, Sonic Implants woodwinds, and EW Symphonic Choir sopranos. I think the piano was the Sampletekk Seven Seas but not sure.


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## GULL (Mar 14, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> OK, I have no desire to be Kirk's happy warrior again as I used to be, because he doesn't need me to, but here is an older piece I found in an early state (not sure what happened to the later state) It was all Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 3, Concert Strings Brass 2, Sonic Implants woodwinds, and EW Symphonic Choir sopranos. I think the piano was the Sampletekk Seven Seas but not sure.




CS 3 sounds nice in the track. Enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing.


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## GULL (Mar 14, 2017)

I noted CS 2 has part purge facility but CS 3 does not have it. (Purging selected articulation samples) Should be useful.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 14, 2017)

GULL said:


> CS 3 sounds nice in the track. Enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing.




BTW, the arrangement was meant to be satirical, a song with a filthy sexual lyric sung as if it was a romantic ballad.


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## GULL (Mar 14, 2017)

After tweaking the parameters, CS 3 really sounds better


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## goldglob (Mar 14, 2017)

robgb said:


> If you're looking for solo strings from Kirk Hunter, check out his Spotlight Solo Strings, which are pretty terrific.




Is that the jamboree slide into note thing? Very handy.


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## EuropaWill (Mar 14, 2017)

skallman said:


> Here are two renditions of Vaughn-Williams "Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis", one played with Concert Strings 2 and the other with Concert Strings 3 and Spotlight Solo Strings.
> 
> Apologies in advance for the CS3 version. I've only been using Concert Strings 3 and Spotlights Strings for a few days even though I've owned the libraries since last year.
> 
> https://app.box.com/shared/oet5er4u3v


Very well done. Thank you for sharing these. One of my favorite pieces so hearing it mocked up really shows me what is possible and not possible with these libraries. I think you pushed them to the limit of their capabilities within this composition. My general take away is the solo sections sound weak and unconvincing though, if used as placeholders in a mockup, it could be _somewhat_ useful for a demo, while the larger sections sound quite decent, actually a bit better than I expected in a few areas.


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## MatFluor (Mar 14, 2017)

GULL said:


> After tweaking the parameters, CS 3 really sounds better



May I ask what you have tweaked? I'm struggling a bit because of the innate "boxiness" of the sound. I love them and it sounds very chamber-ish, but in a tutti they sound mid-frequency heavy and "bad". EQ helps, but taking out too much mids just takes away the "power" of the strings.

If you could point me somewhere I would be very happy


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## GULL (Mar 15, 2017)

MatFluor said:


> May I ask what you have tweaked? I'm struggling a bit because of the innate "boxiness" of the sound. I love them and it sounds very chamber-ish, but in a tutti they sound mid-frequency heavy and "bad". EQ helps, but taking out too much mids just takes away the "power" of the strings.
> 
> If you could point me somewhere I would be very happy



I may not be helpful. 
Actually I had a bad settings in UI I tampered with I guess. But these are what I did

Reduced vibrator intensity & speed,
switched off Human Pitching
Adjusted loosen entrance and mic distance.


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## Quasar (Mar 15, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> OK, I have no desire to be Kirk's happy warrior again as I used to be, because he doesn't need me to, but here is an older piece I found in an early state (not sure what happened to the later state) It was all Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 3, Concert Strings Brass 2, Sonic Implants woodwinds, and EW Symphonic Choir sopranos. I think the piano was the Sampletekk Seven Seas but not sure.



This is way cool... Without knowing anything about the context, a satirical attitude most definitely comes through. I could envision a band like Devo, in their heyday, incorporating this into a set.


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## sostenuto (Mar 15, 2017)

Need Guidance PLZ ! Have *KH Diamond Symphony* and current *Concert Strings Bundle.* Quite pleased so far.
Early days with Orchestra Libraries, but still want to add most *complementary* choices, while staying very near $400.

Open to all recommendations .... and looking hard at 8DIO current 'deal' for Agitato String Bundle and Adagietto @ $388. total. 
Are there equal or better alternatives right now ?? Understand this is personal taste, as well as technical quality. Will make best decision(s) with your suggestions !!


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## Quasar (Mar 15, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Need Guidance PLZ ! Have *KH Diamond Symphony* and current *Concert Strings Bundle.* Quite pleased so far.
> Early days with Orchestra Libraries, but still want to add most *complementary* choices, while staying very near $400.
> 
> Open to all recommendations .... and looking hard at 8DIO current 'deal' for Agitato String Bundle and Adagietto @ $388. total.
> Are there equal or better alternatives right now ?? Understand this is personal taste, as well as technical quality. Will make best decision(s) with your suggestions !!


Have you looked at CSS? I don't have it, but have its older sister CS2. With Cinematic Strings, you'd get something more tightly organized in terms of UI IMHO. The KH seems a bit "messy" by comparison, and it could be argued that the Agitato stuff would be more of that, different options all over the place, which is one of the reasons 8Dio repackaged this sale stuff as Anthology. 

But the Adagietto package alone for $119 could be a very nice compliment, as it's very ensemble, broad-brush oriented, (and sounds lovely out of the box) to mesh with the KH smaller divisi options and solos... It's all so subjective though, YMMV and all of that...


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## sostenuto (Mar 15, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> Have you looked at CSS? I don't have it, but have its older sister CS2. With Cinematic Strings, you'd get something more tightly organized in terms of UI IMHO. The KH seems a bit "messy" by comparison, and it could be argued that the Agitato stuff would be more of that, different options all over the place, which is one of the reasons 8Dio repackaged this sale stuff as Anthology.
> 
> But the Adagietto package alone for $119 could be a very nice compliment, as it's very ensemble, broad-brush oriented, (and sounds lovely out of the box) to mesh with the KH smaller divisi options and solos... It's all so subjective though, YMMV and all of that...



Really appreciate this. Will re-look at CSS as it was already a possibility. Agitato comment helps a lot and Adagietto is so affordable. 

Thanks so much helping move things forward !


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## Quasar (Mar 15, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Really appreciate this. Will re-look at CSS as it was already a possibility. Agitato comment helps a lot and Adagietto is so affordable.
> 
> Thanks so much helping move things forward !


It's just an opinion. And don't get me wrong, I do like the Agitatos. It's just that I bought them and the Adagietto because of the sale price, and now am trying to slog through the oodles of GBs of KH because of the sale price, and my string options have perhaps gotten maybe more "complex" than would be ideal LOL. So I'm not sure that another massive collection of strings that are "all over the map" (as the Agitatos are) would be the best compliment to the massive KH collection.


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## goldglob (Mar 15, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Need Guidance PLZ ! Have *KH Diamond Symphony* and current *Concert Strings Bundle.* Quite pleased so far.
> Early days with Orchestra Libraries, but still want to add most *complementary* choices, while staying very near $400.
> 
> Open to all recommendations .... and looking hard at 8DIO current 'deal' for Agitato String Bundle and Adagietto @ $388. total.
> Are there equal or better alternatives right now ?? Understand this is personal taste, as well as technical quality. Will make best decision(s) with your suggestions !!



I have this feeling that there might be a new KH product happening this year sometime (which would explain this sale), and would not be surprised if KH Spotlight went on sale before too long!??? Although, if you're looking for complementary I guess Spotlight is not that...looking at the sample files (and listening) I think the samples are pretty much the same as in CS3 but it's programmed and EQed to be more 'lively', direct, or something. It has a nice 'jamboree' thing (auto swoop up into note). The ripieno (extra section) does not have the individual player control of the ensemble in CS3.


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## sostenuto (Mar 15, 2017)

goldglob said:


> I have this feeling that there might be a new KH product happening this year sometime (which would explain this sale), and would not be surprised if KH Spotlight went on sale before too long!??? Although, if you're looking for complimentary I guess Spotlight is not that...looking at the sample files (and listening) I think the samples are pretty much the same as in CS3 but it's programmed and EQed to be more 'lively', direct, or something. It has a nice 'jamboree' thing (auto swoop up into note). The ripieno (extra section) does not have the individual player control of the ensemble in CS3.



Just got the Spotlight Demo .... did not realize it was there ... Can take time to test a bit, and no problem waiting to see if KH drops.

Kinda expect some new content with this CS Bundle 'deep' discount. Way early (for me) with current KH libraries, but need to learn some alternate approaches too .... as long as promo deals are quality, mainly being replaced/updated.

BTW __ are products like Spitfire's Albion One thought of as 'not' relevant to compare with KH, 8DIO, CSS libraries ... for purposes of my inquiry here ??

Thank-you!


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## Fleer (Mar 15, 2017)

Don't think these deep discounts mean new content is necessarily to be expected. We've now seen such deals every fortnight or so, from major developers. It's the new, tiered way software is sold: regular, sale and deep sale pricing, depending on three distinct types of customers: professional, amateur and bargain hunters. I'll admit to the latter.


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## sostenuto (Mar 15, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Don't think these deep discounts mean new content is necessarily to be expected. We've now seen such deals every fortnight or so, from major developers. It's the new, tiered way software is sold: regular, sale and deep sale pricing, depending on three distinct types of customers: professional, amateur and bargain hunters. I'll admit to the latter.



Sure, but you are also far better able to 'bargain hunt', sort key factors and and choose more wisely. As lifetime, non-professional pianist/organist/keyboardist, my Library of non-orchestral content is large, and decent for my needs/wants.

Frankly, much tougher now through forest of good Orchestral offerings and trying to choose complementary/minimal 'overlap' additions. Clearly, this is always in 'degrees' (NOT B/W) but hoping to avoid serious mistakes so early-on.


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## Fleer (Mar 15, 2017)

True, not easy, but we're getting there


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## StatKsn (Mar 16, 2017)

I actually am pleasantly surprised with KHCS3's tone. It has a certain old-school, romantic flavor that is not covered by other libraries. The obvious downside is that scalable section sizing makes it super heavy on CPU - hitting a big chord easily kills it.


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## GULL (Mar 16, 2017)

MatFluor said:


> May I ask what you have tweaked? I'm struggling a bit because of the innate "boxiness" of the sound. I love them and it sounds very chamber-ish, but in a tutti they sound mid-frequency heavy and "bad". EQ helps, but taking out too much mids just takes away the "power" of the strings.
> 
> If you could point me somewhere I would be very happy



There are some videos posted by the users in this thread. You may find it useful http://vi-control.net/community/thr...kirk-hunter-studios.60457/page-5#post-4066130


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## dhowarthmusic (Mar 16, 2017)

I'm re-posting my Rachmaninov demo of Kirk Hunters Concert Strings 3 with a newer processed version that removes the boominess from the library and makes it sound much better. I'm using a new product that I am beta testing that helps to improve the sound of samples string libraries. Can anyone hear the difference?

1. Birdman Theme (Rachmaninov) - Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 3 (Processed version)
2. Birdman Theme (Rachmaninov) - Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 3 (Out of the box)

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/birdman-theme-kirk-hunter-concert-strings-3-processed-mp3.7782/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=http://vi-control.net/community/attachments/birdman-theme-kirk-hunter-concert-strings-3-out-of-the-box-mp3.7784/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=http://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/birdman-theme-kirk-hunter-concert-strings-3-processed-mp3.7782/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=http://www.vi-control.net/community/attachments/birdman-theme-kirk-hunter-concert-strings-3-out-of-the-box-mp3.7784/][/AUDIOPLUS]


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## sostenuto (Mar 16, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> I'm re-posting my Rachmaninov demo of Kirk Hunters Concert Strings 3 with a newer processed version that removes the boominess from the library and makes it sound much better. I'm using a new product that I am beta testing that helps to improve the sound of samples string libraries. Can anyone hear the difference?
> 
> 1. Birdman Theme (Rachmaninov) - Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 3 (Processed version)
> 2. Birdman Theme (Rachmaninov) - Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 3 (Out of the box)



Trying, but need to move to Sys#1 (Main Monitors). Even so, nice work and continued support for CS3 ! 

Thank-you


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## Quasar (Mar 16, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> I'm re-posting my Rachmaninov demo of Kirk Hunters Concert Strings 3 with a newer processed version that removes the boominess from the library and makes it sound much better. I'm using a new product that I am beta testing that helps to improve the sound of samples string libraries. Can anyone hear the difference?
> 
> 1. Birdman Theme (Rachmaninov) - Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 3 (Processed version)
> 2. Birdman Theme (Rachmaninov) - Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 3 (Out of the box)



Man, I love this piece of music... Don't hate me for saying this, but the OOTB version seems to have more movement and dynamic vitality to it, especially in the lower ranges, and I think I like it better. The processed version sounds just slightly more clinical, more surgical and not quite as warm and sweeping. Maybe I like what you call boominess... I dunno.

But they both sound very good to me. Thanks for posting.


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## EuropaWill (Mar 16, 2017)

dhowarthmusic said:


> I'm re-posting my Rachmaninov demo of Kirk Hunters Concert Strings 3 with a newer processed version that removes the boominess from the library and makes it sound much better. I'm using a new product that I am beta testing that helps to improve the sound of samples string libraries. Can anyone hear the difference?
> 
> 1. Birdman Theme (Rachmaninov) - Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 3 (Processed version)
> 2. Birdman Theme (Rachmaninov) - Kirk Hunter Concert Strings 3 (Out of the box)
> ...


Sounds to me like the processed version was mastered using an EQ plugin to help match it to a more modern sounding string orchestra EQ profile. I'm able to better follow the Celli, Violas and 2nd Violins lines better in the processed version and it just sounds better overall though there is something about the OOTB version's 1st violins that sounds more like a recording from a vintage recording which gives it a unique _period_ character that is especially effective for this piece. I wonder if you could process everything except for the 1st violins to see if that delivers the best of both worlds or if it just wouldn't work and sound out of place.

Question: are you using a version of CS3 that was available before the recent sale? If so, do you have the ability to de-select the solists or bring their volumes down to zero? I ask because i downloaded the CS3 demo which is only the 1st violins and it sounds very different than your CS3 mockup. I can't get that soaring sound of it. Could you share a screenshot of the first Violins and their settings used on that mockup? I'm beginning to wonder if the sound of the newest version without the true soloist capabilities is not quite the same as the original that included that ability.


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## Fleer (Mar 16, 2017)

As I wrote before, here's a kvr-thread from almost a year ago with Kirk Hunter saying:
"Concert Strings 3 - You can create sections ranging in size from 4 - 16 players."
And: "Spotlight Solo Strings - You can create sections ranging in size from 1 - 4 players." Seems the same difference between both was as accurately described back then as it is now.
(https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=225&t=463762)

Conclusion: the present sale version has been around at least since then.


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## EuropaWill (Mar 16, 2017)

Fleer said:


> As I wrote before, here's a kvr-thread from almost a year ago with Kirk Hunter saying:
> "Concert Strings 3 - You can create sections ranging in size from 4 - 16 players."
> And: "Spotlight Solo Strings - You can create sections ranging in size from 1 - 4 players." Seems the same difference between both was as accurately described back then as it is now.
> (https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=225&t=463762)
> ...


Thanks, That still doesn't answer the question if the two different versions of CS3 sound different from each other.


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## Fleer (Mar 16, 2017)

True. It does show that this version of CS3 has been around for at least a year and that the present sale version is one and the same.


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## peter5992 (Mar 16, 2017)

Quick question: this is not a virus or a hoax, correct? I bought the bundle and am going to download everything now. 

I don't care how good or bad it is, all I ask is whether Kirk Hunter and this audio plugins deals companies are legitimate, or whether this is some internet hoax. 

Thanks.


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## goldglob (Mar 16, 2017)

peter5992 said:


> Quick question: this is not a virus or a hoax, correct? I bought the bundle and am going to download everything now.
> 
> I don't care how good or bad it is, all I ask is whether Kirk Hunter and this audio plugins deals companies are legitimate, or whether this is some internet hoax.
> 
> Thanks.



Well I've nearly finished downloading the lot, CS3 already up and running, computer hasn't blown up, no nasty adware popping up, all OK I'd say.


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## lp59burst (Mar 16, 2017)

GULL said:


> I may not be helpful.
> Actually I had a bad settings in UI I tampered with I guess. But these are what I did
> 
> Reduced vibrator intensity & speed,
> ...


I must admit that the first time I read this I thought you were talking about something completely different...


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## robgb (Mar 17, 2017)

lp59burst said:


> I must admit that the first time I read this I thought you were talking about something completely different...


What a difference an "r" can make.


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## Quasar (Mar 17, 2017)

peter5992 said:


> Quick question: this is not a virus or a hoax, correct? I bought the bundle and am going to download everything now.
> 
> I don't care how good or bad it is, all I ask is whether Kirk Hunter and this audio plugins deals companies are legitimate, or whether this is some internet hoax.
> 
> Thanks.



Just to answer your question directly. Kirk Hunter has been around and known for a long time, is a respected violinist as well as a maker of sample libraries, and is without question 100% legit.


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## Vardaro (Mar 17, 2017)

1) Even if we can no longer switch off unwanted soloists in CS3, we can still reduce their volume to zero. They are the same ones as in Spotlight, except that No 1 is the alternative "Bertha" from Spotlight.

2) It's a pity Mr Re-peat can only insult Kirk's work, rather than say precisely what he dislikes about the sound. "Bad" or "ghastly" is a reaction, not a description.

3) The very marked differences of opinion from other contributors can come from our varied perspectives. Personally, as a player myself, I want a soloists with a close-up dry sound which can be placed in a mix by equalisation and reverb. I do not want the ultra-smooth String-Machine-type soup, (sorry, "sound"..) and I like ensembles to be vibrant. My favorite is the CS2 chamber strings, but I shall spend more time on CS3 to compare its ergonomics with Embertone's, Chris Hein's, and Sample-Modeling's solo offerings, (in order of preference, tone-wise).


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## GULL (Mar 17, 2017)

Vardaro said:


> Even if we can no longer switch off unwanted soloists in CS3, we can still reduce their volume to zero.



I can neither reduce the volume below 66 nor mute the soloists. Am I missing something?


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## Polkasound (Mar 17, 2017)

peter5992 said:


> Quick question: this is not a virus or a hoax, correct?



These deep discount sales are no hoaxes. Last year, I purchased Kirk Hunter's Diamond Symphony Orchestra from a different plugin discount site for $99. My guess is that Kirk, from his experience using discount sites, has determined that it is easier to make a thousand $100 sales than a hundred $1,000 sales.

I've always held to the belief that when you run a deep discount sale, you reach the "I-don't-need it-but-I-can't-pass-it-up-at-this-price" crowd, and that is a huuuuuge market. A lot musicians suffer from G.A.S., and a Kirk Hunter product for 92% off is irresistible. Take me for example... I am the last musician on Earth who needs concert strings, plus I just paid out $2,500 in emergency veterinary bills... and yet it's taking an extraordinary amount of will power to pass on this deal. Chances are I will cave in the next couple of days and buy it. That's simply good marketing.


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## Fleer (Mar 17, 2017)

$2,500 in veterinary bills? What kind of animal are we talkin' 'bout?


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## Vardaro (Mar 17, 2017)

GULL said:


> I can neither reduce the volume below 66 nor mute the soloists. Am I missing something?


My mistake: in effect my own CS3 was bought in the last Group Buy, and I can mute what I want, and pull the volume to zero. I wonder if the strange new restrictions only apply to the Bundle?


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## Fleer (Mar 17, 2017)

Vardaro said:


> My mistake: in effect my own CS3 was bought in the last Group Buy, and I can mute what I want, and pull the volume to zero. I wonder if the strange new restrictions only apply to the Bundle?


Didn't know they ever had a group buy that included CS3. Anyway, as stated above, the present deal's CS3 is the same as last year's, so I doubt there would be any difference.


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## Polkasound (Mar 17, 2017)

Fleer said:


> $2,500 in veterinary bills? What kind of animal are we talkin' 'bout?



One very fortunate cat.


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## EuropaWill (Mar 17, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Didn't know they ever had a group buy that included CS3. Anyway, as stated above, the present deal's CS3 is the same as last year's, so I doubt there would be any difference.


Lets ask all the users that just bought the $99 bundle. Who can mute or lower the volume of the 4 soloists in CS3, and who can't mute and are limited to a minimum volume of 66? Gull can't mute and has volume limits, anyone else?


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## rrichard63 (Mar 17, 2017)

This is just a personal opinion ... I think that folks considering this bargain should look at the Kirk Hunter Studios support forum over at KVR:

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=225

It's been essentially dead for a while now. The last time the developer responded to a question was November 19, 2016, although there are recent inquiries to respond to.

If I thought that the developer was still actively supporting their products, I would buy this bundle in a heartbeat (I have Diamond and it would be a great extension). But, based on previous experience with products that have been abandoned by their developers, I am hesitating.


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## sostenuto (Mar 17, 2017)

rrichard63 said:


> This is just a personal opinion ... I think that folks considering this bargain should look at the Kirk Hunter Studios support forum over at KVR:
> 
> https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=225
> 
> ...



Your choice ..... I called recently and Kirk called back within minutes ..... spent some time helping me sort options to enhance current libraries (incl Diamond Symphony Orchestra). Fine quality for cost. You can see this from myriad posts here. Hoping for promo soon __ Virtuoso Ensembles


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## Fleer (Mar 17, 2017)

Apparently he's a professional violin player, but he answers to any question you may send him through PM. Didn't need to myself, but those who have questions should best address the man himself. He seems to run a small operation with love and dedication.


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## peter5992 (Mar 17, 2017)

Tugboat said:


> Just to answer your question directly. Kirk Hunter has been around and known for a long time, is a respected violinist as well as a maker of sample libraries, and is without question 100% legit.



Thanks ... just want to make sure. I'm generally wary of "too good to be true" offers, they almost always are just that, too good to be true.

I purchased them and am downloading them now. I already have a couple of string libraries and don't really need any more but at this price level, it's hard to refuse.


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## lp59burst (Mar 17, 2017)

I caved... it's around 80 files if you download all three CS2, CS3, & Legacy... I used "DownThemAll!" as DL manager and it was a snap...


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## Fleer (Mar 17, 2017)

Still didn't download Legacy. Am I missing something important if I don't?


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## goldglob (Mar 18, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> Lets ask all the users that just bought the $99 bundle. Who can mute or lower the volume of the 4 soloists in CS3, and who can't mute and are limited to a minimum volume of 66? Gull can't mute and has volume limits, anyone else?


CS3 has min vol 66, BUT the CS3 DEMO has min vol zero. Both have the newer panel where you can't choose solo, duet etc.


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## GULL (Mar 18, 2017)

Vardaro said:


> My mistake: in effect my own CS3 was bought in the last Group Buy, and I can mute what I want, and pull the volume to zero. I wonder if the strange new restrictions only apply to the Bundle?



Yes. It seems to restricted to the bundle (or recent version)


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## gregh (Mar 18, 2017)

yes I am a little disappointed by this - I do not think the manual and info generally reflects this limitation. It is still worth the money but good communication is important


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## Vardaro (Mar 18, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Still didn't download Legacy. Am I missing something important if I don't?


Legacy includes Solo Strings 1 (including a supplementary "romantic" violin on steroids), and various sizes of ensemble (Symphonic, Chamber etc.) The sound is a little more holywoodish than CS2, but still with lively playing.


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## chibear (Mar 18, 2017)

Re minimum volume: You can automate CC#7 and override any restrictions.


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## Fleer (Mar 18, 2017)

chibear said:


> Re minimum volume: You can automate CC#7 and override any restrictions.


Thanks, chibear, works lovely.


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## sostenuto (Mar 18, 2017)

Very new here .... but note that this is one of most _positive, civil, informative, helpful, LONG_ Threads seen in some time.
Thanks for teaching, as well as supporting purchase decision !


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## sostenuto (Mar 18, 2017)

Oops ! Last thing I want is to stir the pot .... BUT ..... how in the world to compare this KH Bundle Promo to Cinematic Strings 2 (@ +$200.) ?? Really hoping for notable feature differences, real A/B. Just cannot go higher cost right now than ~$300. and much prefer KH $99. unless extra $200. is justified clearly.


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## Sid Francis (Mar 18, 2017)

sostenuto: sorry to say so, but it will not work that way. It is like " Should I buy that mercedes for 80000$ or spend another 40000 and get that caravan?" No one can decide for you whether you would need one or the other more.... These libs sound totally different and they react a bit different and so are two different pair of shoes.
Cinematic strings sounds broad, lush, soft, a bit indifferent and blurry in comparison and KH Strings are much straighter, more aggressive, raw and direct. None of them is omnipotent, they have their strenghts and weaknesses.
And: no, "feature differences" will not be THE argument for one of them to become the solution for your needs. People using samples seem to think so but I am always wondering how one could compare different sounding libraries by their "features". If both sounded more or less the same: okay, then features would decide. But tonal qualities are much much more the point to consider, otherwise you will not be happy with your "feature loaded articulation monster" that perhaps will not sound!! remotely like you want it to sound.
I am obviously no native speaker so I hope I could make my points clear, have mercy...


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## EuropaWill (Mar 18, 2017)

I find myself in a very odd position. I simultaneously dislike qualities of the library (CS3) and yet like it at the same time.  The Birdman theme demo's and Vaughan Williams demo both have me thinking this _could_ be a good layering library for molto vibrato soaring lines, but in a retro feel kind of way. It seems to fall short when listening to the smaller groups and divisi kicks in where it sounds quite synthy. I also get the sense all the players weren't sampled every half-note so there are odd sounding notes that sound like sample pitch stretched. I hear that in the spotlight strings quite clearly also. In the larger ensembles, it isn't as noticeable because the blending seems to mask it to some extent. Also, i'm still wondering how does one ride velocity from pp to ff on a line? 

A real negative IMO: To modify the ability to mute any of the soloists in the bundle only version to me is quite a misleading and disappointing move, i mean seriously was that necessary? I highly doubt after listening to the Chamber Strings 3 people are going to pony up $300 for it, so disabling it in CS3 only to enable it in CHS3 is a poor marketing strategy IMO. The soloists in CS3 still have blue buttons to the left of them, and a slider shouldn't be broken at 66. I think this needs to be fixed so the mutes actually work and volume sliders are no longer broken. I seem to go back and forth whether or not to add this to my collection. 

Some counterpoint to this bundle is EW Hollywood Strings Gold which is currently $132 or even 8dio's Adagietto for $119. Can anyone else suggest another string library that could be an interesting alternative in this price range?


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## sostenuto (Mar 18, 2017)

Sid Francis said:


> sostenuto: sorry to say so, but it will not work that way. It is like " Should I buy that mercedes for 80000$ or spend another 40000 and get that caravan?" No one can decide for you whether you would need one or the other more.... These libs sound totally different and they react a bit different and so are two different pair of shoes.
> Cinematic strings sounds broad, lush, soft, a bit indifferent and blurry in comparison and KH Strings are much straighter, more aggressive, raw and direct. None of them is omnipotent, they have their strenghts and weaknesses.
> And: no, "feature differences" will not be THE argument for one of them to become the solution for your needs. People using samples seem to think so but I am always wondering how one could compare different sounding libraries by their "features". If both sounded more or less the same: okay, then features would decide. But tonal qualities are much much more the point to consider, otherwise you will not be happy with your "feature loaded articulation monster" that perhaps will not sound!! remotely like you want it to sound.
> I am obviously no native speaker so I hope I could make my points clear, have mercy...



HA !  U cud giv lessons 2 meny !! 

Your points are taken and not surprising. My type of Post is the issue ..... knowing there are no B/W Replies.
I do believe there are libraries which complement each other 'better'.
Now have KH Diamond Symphony and NI Kontakt5 Factory Library (legacy VSL).... thinking maybe better to add something quite different (CS2).
XTRA $200. is doable, but so hard to estimate how much incremental benefit.
Have tried KH Demos, but Promo deadline is fast approaching and still concerned there may be too much overlap with KH Diamond Symphony.

Thank-you for keeping the discussion focused ....


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## sostenuto (Mar 18, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> I find myself in a very odd position. I simultaneously dislike qualities of the library (CS3) and yet like it at the same time.  ................................................_edit _
> 
> A real negative IMO: To modify the ability to mute any of the soloists in the bundle only version to me is quite a misleading and disappointing move, i mean seriously was that necessary? I highly doubt after listening to the Chamber Strings 3 people are going to pony up $300 for it, so disabling it in CS3 only to enable it in CHS3 is a poor marketing strategy IMO. The soloists in CS3 still have blue buttons to the left of them, and a slider shouldn't be broken at 66. I think this needs to be fixed so the mutes actually work and volume sliders are no longer broken. I seem to go back and forth whether or not to add this to my collection.
> 
> Some counterpoint to this bundle is EW Hollywood Strings Gold which is currently $132 or even 8dio's Adagietto for $119. Can anyone else suggest another string library that could be an interesting alternative in this price range?



^^ and Agitato Strings Bundle @ $269. This critique adds to the dilemma, tempering 'massive content for just $99.' argument. 

Still twisting in the wind, but not for much longer .....


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## goldglob (Mar 18, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> _......._
> 
> A real negative IMO: To modify the ability to mute any of the soloists in the bundle only version to me is quite a misleading and disappointing move, i mean seriously was that necessary? I highly doubt after listening to the Chamber Strings 3 people are going to pony up $300 for it, so disabling it in CS3 only to enable it in CHS3 is a poor marketing strategy IMO....


Actually in the Chamber Strings DEMO you can only get down to Duet (no less than any two blue buttons), and I suspect the same in the full version. You *can* get zero volumes but as with CS3 I suspect only for the DEMO; the FULL Chamber Stgs probably has 66 limit. I guess KH sees Spotlight as the SOLO one. (And there is SOLO in Legacy and CS2 of course). And comparing Spotlight DEMO soloed violin to CS3 DEMO soloed violin (with vol of others zero), Spotlight seems to have a more 'alive' sound...can hear the bow noise kinda thing.


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## Fleer (Mar 18, 2017)

EuropaWill said:


> I find myself in a very odd position. I simultaneously dislike qualities of the library (CS3) and yet like it at the same time.  The Birdman theme demo's and Vaughan Williams demo both have me thinking this _could_ be a good layering library for molto vibrato soaring lines, but in a retro feel kind of way. It seems to fall short when listening to the smaller groups and divisi kicks in where it sounds quite synthy. I also get the sense all the players weren't sampled every half-note so there are odd sounding notes that sound like sample pitch stretched. I hear that in the spotlight strings quite clearly also. In the larger ensembles, it isn't as noticeable because the blending seems to mask it to some extent. Also, i'm still wondering how does one ride velocity from pp to ff on a line?
> 
> A real negative IMO: To modify the ability to mute any of the soloists in the bundle only version to me is quite a misleading and disappointing move, i mean seriously was that necessary? I highly doubt after listening to the Chamber Strings 3 people are going to pony up $300 for it, so disabling it in CS3 only to enable it in CHS3 is a poor marketing strategy IMO. The soloists in CS3 still have blue buttons to the left of them, and a slider shouldn't be broken at 66. I think this needs to be fixed so the mutes actually work and volume sliders are no longer broken. I seem to go back and forth whether or not to add this to my collection.
> 
> Some counterpoint to this bundle is EW Hollywood Strings Gold which is currently $132 or even 8dio's Adagietto for $119. Can anyone else suggest another string library that could be an interesting alternative in this price range?


EW Hollywood Strings is a very good library, I love the Diamond version to bits, particularly the different mic positions. You may also try their ComposerCloud for a month.


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## EuropaWill (Mar 18, 2017)

Fleer said:


> EW Hollywood Strings is a very good library, I love the Diamond version to bits, particularly the different mic positions. You may also try their ComposerCloud for a month.


That's a good suggestion, thanks. One of the issues I have with HS Gold is it doesn't have divisi sections included so that is a bit of a problem since section sizing was a critical component to my interest in the KH bundle. I'm not ready to spend $300 to get that feature with HS Diamond. 

Actually today after some additional thinking on this KH bundle offer and searching online for other options, I believe I finally decided against it... <Sigh> Though throughout this process i've come to gain a greater objectivity for the KH libraries. To me it represents probably a good quick mockup tool, decent layering options with existing libraries and a nice molto vibrato soaring violin section in the hands of skilled users ( though I couldn't quite evoke it with the CS3 demo which was frustrating), it has a number of elements that I really like (recorded dry, vibrato control, individual player and divisi control) and conversely a number of elements that really bother me including the recently crippled solo features in CS3 which run counter to the original intent of the library and a general lack of dynamics/velocity timbral layers, and a few other inconsistencies. The bundle pricing was good enough to get me to take notice, download the demos and and give it an honest chance, but it wasn't enough. $100 is still $100. I think this pricing should probably become the regular pricing of this collection. No disrespect meant to KH, but I think the regular list prices of CS3, CS2 and especially CHS3 are quite inflated when options like EW HS Gold is available on a regular basis for $132 and sound to be in a different league altogether sonically. 

I'm now leaning towards 8dio's Adagio Violins (yes its only one section of one library) or 8dio's Adagietto bundle - the biggest draw for me with this KH offer was augmenting my existing library's Violin sections.


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## Fleer (Mar 18, 2017)

If I had to choose between EW HS Gold and KH CS3, it would definitely be Kirk Hunter, as I couldn't go without divisi.
HS Diamond includes divisi, yet indeed at a much higher price point.


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## bigcat1969 (Mar 19, 2017)

I'm enjoying the CS3 and 2 and they have use and are fun to play with, but Adagio is at another level entirely. Hopefully someone with real talent can give a better explanation, but KH sounds like a nice violin vst, Adagio sounds like violinists.


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## Fleer (Mar 19, 2017)

Here's hoping for a great Adagio deal


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## skallman (Mar 19, 2017)

Sid Francis said:


> Cinematic strings sounds broad, lush, soft, a bit indifferent and blurry in comparison and KH Strings are much straighter, more aggressive, raw and direct.



You can give Concert Strings 2 a bit more of a "lush" sound by playing with the Release knob on the TVEC 4 Basic Settings section in the Script Editor page. By increasing the Release, the "edginess" of CS2 gets softened a little. In my template, I dragged several MIDI CCs to the Release and other knobs to vary the attack and release on the fly.

As for the "synthy" sound of the Spotlight Solo Strings in the CS3 Vaughn Williams rendition I made, I'd have to agree. But I think it's more to do with my lack of mastering skills in applying better EQ, compression, etc. than anything inherent in the library itself. I've only been playing with CS3 and Spotlight Strings for a couple of weeks, so a much better hand at tweaking such things way well produce a better sound from these libraries.

And for those who were speculating as much, in emailing back and forth with Kirk himself, he alluded to new libraries coming out soon. (Hope I didn't leak this too soon. There's been too much in the way of "leaks" in the news lately.  )


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## bigcat1969 (Mar 19, 2017)

Sorry to go off topic. The 8Dio stuff is so blooming expensive to start with that even the sales prices are about as high as other folks regular prices, so rarely do they fall low enough to be a really good sale. They had a 40% off deal that stacked with the current sale which made the prices somewhat more reasonable. Still not going to find 2 string section type instruments for 100 bucks like this KH deal.


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## Quasar (Mar 19, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> Sorry to go off topic. The 8Dio stuff is so blooming expensive to start with that even the sales prices are about as high as other folks regular prices, so rarely do they fall low enough to be a really good sale. They had a 40% off deal that stacked with the current sale which made the prices somewhat more reasonable. Still not going to find 2 string section type instruments for 100 bucks like this KH deal.


VI Control really needs to have a dedicated *Bash 8Dio* subforum LOL.

That said, I tend to agree with you, that they often seem to display a somewhat inflated sense of what their libraries are worth, then use sales to sell them at or near a price that most would ever consider to be reasonable.


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## MatFluor (Mar 19, 2017)

I like the Kirk Hunter strings (they sure are different in a way) and 8Dio Adagietto 

I made a short Mockup of Mahler using these two libraries - I think together they give a nice pallette of sounds (a bit more in the classical side than the modern). (I already posted that Mockup in the "Members Compositions" Forum for Feedback, so I won't link it here.

Greets,
Matthias


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## bigcat1969 (Mar 19, 2017)

Don't get me wrong I love the 8Dio Strings and spent my Christmas and Birthday money on Adagio and Agitato which makes no sense cause I have no discernible musical talent. Just love the sound and playing with them. But reasonably priced.. no. $520 for Adagio and Agatato full bundles and should get Anthology included. And I've never seen them cheaper.


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## Fleer (Mar 19, 2017)

Not going anywhere near 8Dio at those prices. Meanwhile, $99 for my Kirk Hunter Strings bundle, well that's reasonably priced


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## EuropaWill (Mar 19, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Not going anywhere near 8Dio at those prices. Meanwhile, $99 for my Kirk Hunter Strings bundle, well that's reasonably priced


To be fair, 8dio's Adagietto is now $119. Not saying its better or worse, because I don't have it, but that is in the same price range. It has its critics though just like KH does. Seems word on the street is Adagio is quite inconsistent in volumes and tuning, etc.. between articulations. I don't read that about the KH libraries.


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## Fleer (Mar 20, 2017)

Thanks, checking out Adagietto!


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## Polkasound (Mar 20, 2017)

I made my decision on the Kirk Hunter 92%-off sale. I already have his Diamond Symphony Orchestra, and spent about an hour in my studio messing around with the strings in that library to see what I could get out of them, which is a lot. I love the KH strings and the TVEC interface with all the selectable articulations and divisions, but adding more of the KH sound didn't seem like a practical choice for me.

Although I didn't _need_ to buy any strings, the shopping process found me gravitating to 8Dio's website, playing the demo videos for Adagietto over and over and swooning over the moving, enveloping sound of the crescendos. I was unable to pass on the 70%-off sale. Since I don't have any libraries that sound like Adagietto, buying it made the most sense to me.


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## sostenuto (Mar 20, 2017)

Polkasound said:


> I made my decision on the Kirk Hunter 92%-off sale. I already have his Diamond Symphony Orchestra, and spent about an hour in my studio messing around with the strings in that library to see what I could get out of them, which is a lot. I love the KH strings and the TVEC interface with all the selectable articulations and divisions, but adding more of the KH sound didn't seem like a practical choice for me.
> 
> Although I didn't _need_ to buy any strings, the shopping process found me gravitating to 8Dio's website, playing the demo videos for Adagietto over and over and swooning over the moving, enveloping sound of the crescendos. I was unable to pass on the 70%-off sale. Since I don't have any libraries that sound like Adagietto, buying it made the most sense to me.



Aaaarrrggggghhhh !! I think you got me  Exactly same situation (with KH Diamond Symphony) but not at your level of experience/capability. Sooo close to jumping at the 'KH deal' but so worried that other possibilities may be better complement at similar cost. 

..... back to loading 8DIO Cart _again_ w/Adagietto . Somebody rescue me *plz* !!


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## Fleer (Mar 20, 2017)

Well, after checking on Adagietto, I am very happy I got the KH bundle because of its vast articulations, vibrato manipulation and 70s sound. Even more interesting is how the three KH libraries are quite different, allowing for specific kinds of creative writing. Inspiration galore. So, no Adagietto for me after all.


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## sostenuto (Mar 20, 2017)

@ Polkasound ... yes, and sound is truly a key factor; all others considered.

@ Fleer ...Yeah ... your point(s) are supported several times here.
Dang! Strong support also for layering/mixing _multiple_ sources.

Always a next time for them, I guess ___


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## Fleer (Mar 20, 2017)

That's how I often decide. Get neither. Or both


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## novaburst (Mar 20, 2017)

Polkasound said:


> capability is undoubtedly lower than just about everyone else's here.


Well if its lower than me that's rock bottom dude


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## sostenuto (Mar 20, 2017)

novaburst said:


> Well if its lower than me that's rock bottom dude



I doubt this ^, but really hits a chord/nerve. I'm long-term pianist/organist/keyboardist, but little clue about Orchestration beyond related, casual encounters. No 'correct' answer as one track provides deeper familiarity with GUI and usage ..... while the other exposes alternate approaches and sounds. 

Really does invite a 'both' approach ...


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## rrichard63 (Mar 20, 2017)

I ended up in the same place as Polkasound. I'm very glad I bought Diamond Symphony Orchestra for 99 euros last August -- in spite of some minor issues with documentation and support. But even at 90% off, I couldn't justify more gigabytes of Kirk Hunter's strings. I think I'm better off putting the $99 toward another, hopefully complimentary, string sound.


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## Fleer (Mar 20, 2017)

Mind you, Kirk Hunter CS3 (and even CS2) is a significant step up from those old Diamond Symphony strings (or CS Legacy). Just sayin'.


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## sostenuto (Mar 20, 2017)

Fleer said:


> Mind you, Kirk Hunter CS3 (and even CS2) is a significant step up from those old Diamond Symphony strings (or CS Legacy). Just sayin'.



With cost being a major issue, there are limited alternate choices from my searches and Spitfire tops the list.
Plz... know I hesitate to raise this, but do you see KH CS2/CS3 as still better 'tools' to *complement KH Diamond* than say Spitfire Evo Grid 1 or 2 ? Very limited exposure, so hoping there is a more B/W answer to such a narrow question ??


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## rrichard63 (Mar 20, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> ... do you see KH CS2/CS3 as still better 'tools' to *complement KH Diamond* than say Spitfire Evo Grid 1 or 2? ...


For me, the key word here is "complement".


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## sostenuto (Mar 20, 2017)

rrichard63 said:


> For me, the key word here is "complement".



Absolutely !! ... yet the term implies detail far beyond my 'early' ability to discern both fully and accurately.
Bound to make some bad decisions, going forward, and perhaps too much focus on 'deals' (especially on lower cost range).
Even with approved EDU pricing @ Spitfire, choices below $300. are quite limited.


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## Fleer (Mar 20, 2017)

Sadly I only have Spitfire Albion One (which I love and adore).


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## sostenuto (Mar 20, 2017)

Stretch, but could do. Scary to think of catching the Albion 'bug' .... as many have


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## bigcat1969 (Mar 20, 2017)

Somewhat tangential but somewhat relevant. What do you hear when you listen to sting sample libraries or virtual instruments in general? How do you judge quality past how many samples and how big the library is? How can we really judge if KH is better than 8Dio or Spitfire is better than both?


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## Ashermusic (Mar 21, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> Somewhat tangential but somewhat relevant. What do you hear when you listen to sting sample libraries or virtual instruments in general? How do you judge quality past how many samples and how big the library is? How can we really judge if KH is better than 8Dio or Spitfire is better than both?



Very simple, You can't. It is too subjective. AND, it doesn't matter.

I play and listen. if I like what I am hearing, I play some more. If I don't, I start tweaking and seeing if it turns into something I like and play some more.

if after app. 1/2 hour I still am not liking what I am hearing when I play and listen, I move on.

What I don't do is worry about whether people on a forum think others are better than the ones I like.


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## chibear (Mar 21, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> How can we really judge if KH is better than 8Dio or Spitfire is better than both?



It all comes down to personal taste, expectations, workflow, education, and perception. Do you hear with an engineer's ears or a musician's? What are your preconceptions on how the library should fit in your sonic repertoire? And what do you want to do with it?

So "we" can't judge. Only _you_ can judge what is right for you.


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## goldglob (Mar 21, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> Somewhat tangential but somewhat relevant. What do you hear when you listen to sting sample libraries or virtual instruments in general? How do you judge quality past how many samples and how big the library is? How can we really judge if KH is better than 8Dio or Spitfire is better than both?



Yes, you could spend days, weeks, months....comparing libraries without reaching any feeling about which is 'best'....so many variables.
I just spent about 3 hours comparing the solo cellos in Legacy vs CS2.
Turn off reverb, turn off programmed EQ, compare the raw samples, I like some notes in Legacy, I like other notes in CS2, but then again that might depend on the velocity..then I can tweak things...close my eyes...hmm, that sound would suit this setting, this sound would suit another setting..let's try cello quartet...that sounds better even tho the solo version sounds weak...EQ this, tweak that..now the other one sounds better...all too hard...but all worthwhile...homing in on what I want for the current project. Nice to have choices, wish I could afford all there is out there.


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## Ashermusic (Mar 21, 2017)

Btw, Kirk just confirmed that EXS 24 versions are still available, just not on sale.


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## Polkasound (Mar 21, 2017)

bigcat1969 said:


> What do you hear when you listen to sting sample libraries or virtual instruments in general? How do you judge quality past how many samples and how big the library is?



I bought 8Dio Adagietto because I like the way it sounds and operates. My lack of experience working with orchestral instruments doesn't give me much else to go on, so I simply go with what I know and like.

When it comes to non-orchestral instruments where I have more knowledge, obviously I go by how a product sounds, but I also look closely at the specs to see if it's got what I know I need. For example... does the mandolin have sampled hammer-ons, slides, ghost notes, muted chucks, and 3+ round robins? Can I adjust the fret noise on the bass guitar? Do the snares in the drum library have sampled rim shots? Does the Irish whistle have ornaments triggered by key switches? Etc.

Chibear said it best: Only you can judge what is right for you. One person's most precious piece of art may be a Picasso hanging above their fireplace, but their next door neighbor's most precious piece of art may be a finger-painted hand turkey taped to their refrigerator.


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## sostenuto (Mar 21, 2017)

Was it confirmed that current KH Bundle promo configuration specifically changed minimum Players and one other feature in favor of Spotlight Solo Strings (SSS)?

Not a major issue, just trying to understand if SSS is then a logical addition to 'complete' KH Strings Library. Remaining piece would then be Virtuoso Ensembles .... or its equivalent.


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## GULL (Mar 21, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Was it confirmed that current KH Bundle promo configuration specifically changed minimum Players and one other feature in favor of Spotlight Solo Strings (SSS)?


Yes. CS3 does not have a single solo string

EDIT : But CS2 has solo strings


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## sostenuto (Mar 21, 2017)

Thank-you (re Solo Strings). Other portion of question ... was this deliberately changed/removed for this Bundle promo ---- thus favoring purchase of SSS later?


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## GULL (Mar 21, 2017)

sostenuto said:


> Thank-you (re Solo Strings). Other portion of question ... was this deliberately changed/removed for this Bundle promo ---- thus favoring purchase of SSS later?



In their video they said they decided that solo string should be confined to SSS for strengthening the product I remember. But I don't think that has been removed for the bundle promo. It has been removed once for all it seems.


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## sostenuto (Mar 21, 2017)

Appreciate the clarification.  Had essentially factored in SSS cost in overall planning.


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## goldglob (Mar 21, 2017)

Seeing this post from April 2015 in the Kirk Hunter forum KVR:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=225&t=389296&start=45#p6097400
it seems that Kirk originally meant to discontinue Spotlight and have CS3 (and Chamber Strings) at least cover the solo base.
He must have changed his mind along the way as Spotlight is still for sale of course and CS3 can't do solo.
As well as the min vol 66 thing I noticed that the hard pan is not 100% either (there is a slight bleed into opp side) but you can pretty well hear how each soloist sounds by panning a soloist right and the others left then panning in your DAW to hear just one side. You could actually use this to eventually get a near enough to solo take but alas the soloists just don't sound as good to me as those in CS2 or Legacy frankly...some of the samples seem wavery in pitch (and I have 'human pitch' off), and some sound strange EQ wise...but then, looking at the programming, I get the feeling that EQ settings have been set to achieve a good BLEND. I think it's clear that this latest CS3 is programmed to sound good as a minimum four section at the expense of necessarily achieving good solo tone for each soloist.

I'm happy with that, CS2 Solo sounds great, except that I can't see a way to control vibrato speed?


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## StatKsn (Mar 21, 2017)

Ashermusic said:


> Very simple, You can't. It is too subjective. AND, it doesn't matter.
> 
> I play and listen. if I like what I am hearing, I play some more. If I don't, I start tweaking and seeing if it turns into something I like and play some more.
> 
> ...



This!

That said, I understand why there are some (super harsh) criticism toward the tone of Kirk Hunter's strings. It is not very mainstream and can be either described as "old-school romantic sound" or "boxy and out of fashion" depending on your needs. I also think that KH's approach may sound sterile to some ears as compared to the current mainstream sampling approach that bakes a lot of player performance into samples. To me, it feels like that KH strings are kind of specialized libraries rather than "standard-sounding" ones like Albion One, Hollywood Strings, Symphobia, CSS, Da Capo etc.


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## NYC Composer (Mar 21, 2017)

As evidenced by my reading of this ENTIRE thread, my ability to waste time is remarkable. Back to work.


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## kitekrazy (Mar 22, 2017)

NYC Composer said:


> As evidenced by my reading of this ENTIRE thread, my ability to waste time is remarkable. Back to work.



Post of the week!


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## Vardaro (Apr 5, 2017)

I have just made mockups of my students' exam violin pieces, so they will hear the piano part, and "feel" the harmony. I was pressed for time, but GPO and NotePerformer are pretty grim, and Embertone, Chris Hein and XSample need a _lot_ of tweeking. So, Kirk Hunter! Spotlight's "Bertha" gave a better result than CS3's "Solo Violon 1" (bought in a group buy a while back), for tone and articulation, despite their using the same samples. Go figure!

I deliberately use a moderately rapid but slight vibrato, starting soon after the attacks, which I didn't find in Solo Strings 1 & 2


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## lahatte (Jul 2, 2018)

So I have Legacy, CS2, and CS3, but I have not had the chance to dive into them yet. Currently the Spotlight Solo Strings is on sale for $63. Should I buy this, or do I already have it in CS2 or Legacy?

Thanks very much.


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## Robo Rivard (Jul 2, 2018)

lahatte said:


> So I have Legacy, CS2, and CS3, but I have not had the chance to dive into them yet. Currently the Spotlight Solo Strings is on sale for $63. Should I buy this, or do I already have it in CS2 or Legacy?
> 
> Thanks very much.


Spotlight is probably a waste of money... But you should give it a chance with CS2. It sounds better than CS3.


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## sostenuto (Jul 2, 2018)

Robo Rivard said:


> Spotlight is probably a waste of money... But you should give it a chance with CS2. It sounds better than CS3.



I realize your Post is to this older Thread. There is a new Thread given KH Studios offer for Spotlight at $63. and CS3 at $125. 

HA !!! I know ….. lower price does not make the Libs any better !  But I only have Diamond Symphony Orch, and was hoping these two additions (for $188. total) might add some thing useful …. 

Doesn't sound good now given your Reply to @ lahatte.


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## lahatte (Jul 2, 2018)

Thanks for the information. Interesting.


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## Robo Rivard (Jul 2, 2018)

I'm not talking against this offer ( I don't own Spotlight strings)... I just feel that if you want good solo strings, there are better options on the market. Lahatte was saying that he had already the Legacy, CS2, and CS3 libraries... He probably got them from the last sale, for 99 $... I have those libraries, and I found that CS2 had the best string sound.


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## goldglob (Jul 5, 2018)

lahatte said:


> So I have Legacy, CS2, and CS3, but I have not had the chance to dive into them yet. Currently the Spotlight Solo Strings is on sale for $63. Should I buy this, or do I already have it in CS2 or Legacy?
> 
> Thanks very much.


Same here, have Legacy, CS2, and CS3....tempted by Spotlight sale. I had downloaded the Spotlight demo (which is violins only) months ago...similar to CS3 in terms of functionality (hey, vibrato speed even) but I was disappointed with the actual solo sounds....but anyway, thought I'd give it another try only to find that the latest Kontakt crashes with Spotlight....damn bad timing. I wonder how long it will take to get this fixed?


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## lahatte (Jul 5, 2018)

Very interesting.........


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## sostenuto (Jul 5, 2018)

(edit) Some issues in Win10 Pro / Reaper v5.92 /Spotlight Solo Strings. Loads and plays fine, then crashes for no apparent reason. .

The Download gets 'scattered' on my PC and had to force it to a specific location to make sure all the fragments are in one place. This is not cool ( from KH Studios) as far as I'm concerned. I have sent direct inquiries recently, as well as in past, but responses are very curt (although courteous) and not so helpful to less capable users …. imho. 

Hard to pass at $63. given that I have Diamond SO, but CS3 is not so clear at $125.


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## goldglob (Jul 6, 2018)

sostenuto said:


> (edit) Some issues in Win10 Pro / Reaper v5.92 /Spotlight Solo Strings. Loads and plays fine, then crashes for no apparent reason. .
> 
> The Download gets 'scattered' on my PC and had to force it to a specific location to make sure all the fragments are in one place. This is not cool ( from KH Studios) as far as I'm concerned. I have sent direct inquiries recently, as well as in past, but responses are very curt (although courteous) and not so helpful to less capable users …. imho.
> 
> Hard to pass at $63. given that I have Diamond SO, but CS3 is not so clear at $125.


Have you read this?
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/kirk-hunters-spotlight-solos-strings-kontakt-5-8.71718/
Seems like the crash problem is with Kontakt 5.8 (is that what you have?) and only with the violins.


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## pipedr (Jul 6, 2018)

Just checking this out---seems like a similar concept to Chris Hein, with individual instruments combined to make sections. Anyone have both Kirk Hunter and Chris Hein string libraries (solo or ensemble) to compare?


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