# Need a small midi controller with nice faders



## coprhead6

Hey guys,
The touch strips on my Komplete Kontrol S49 are really finicky when it comes to dynamic and vibrato control. I'd like to find a small inexpensive midi controller with a bunch of really nice analogue faders that have some resistance to them. Any recommendations?


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## Saxer

I use this one: http://iconproaudio.com/product/icontrols/
Programmable faders and knobs via software. Sometimes you have to move the fader up and down to 'wake it up' but I even always wiggle a bit before recording a note. Feels smooth while fading. There's also a bigger pro version but I don't have it.


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## tack

I've also been looking for a fader controller for the same reason. Something moderately low profile, say 6-8" in depth.

The FaderMaster Pro is a contender. I'd have preferred something USB though. There's also the Korg nanoKONTROL which looks a bit toyish to me and is perhaps a bit _too_ low profile. Small faders are harder to control dynamics with.

Scoured Google Images for something that caught my eye but most nice looking options are too bulky. And the rest are ugly.

Thanks for the tip about the Icon.


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## coprhead6

The Icon looks really nice, especially the Pro version... 

http://iconproaudio.com/product/icontrols-pro/

Unfortunately I can't seem to find it for sale anywhere. 

Perhaps this is the replacement?

http://www.proaudiostar.com/icon-platform-m-compact-midi-audio-control-surface.html


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## Spip

I would wait for this one... 

http://www.presonus.com/products/FaderPort-8


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## Gabriel Oliveira

Spip said:


> I would wait for this one...
> 
> http://www.presonus.com/products/FaderPort-8



as its father, this don't do midi CC


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## synthpunk

I just got a Behringer X Touch Compact. Jeff Rona recommend it. I like it very much. I have the extra pots assigned to softsynth control. You can toggle between Daw mode and Midi CC mode quickly, build quality is very good. $399 usd. one bad sign, the Mac editor still has not come out.

https://www.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Computer-Audio/Desktop-Controllers/X-TOUCH-COMPACT/p/P0B3L








Cheap... Korg Nanokontrol get the job done for $60. But it is plastic and cheap feeling.


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## tack

synthpunk said:


> I just got a Behringer X Touch Compact.


I did like the look of that one but it looked too big for my space. How deep is it from front to back? Do the cables stick out far enough that it would prevent something from sitting right behind it? (That's where my keyboard would have to sit.)


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## synthpunk

4" x 15-1/4" x 12"


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## tack

Much obliged, @synthpunk


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## coprhead6

Looks like I will be trying the iControls first and then possible move to the X Touch Compact. Thanks my dudes.


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## rgames

I was on a similar quest recently for a 4-8 fader unit and couldn't find anything that was compact with decent-quality decent-length faders - everything comes with a bunch of other controls that I never use or is super flimsy. I had a Novation Zero SL MkII and it was a solid unit w/ great feel (not motorized) but I only ever used the fader half, so it was a big waste of space and I got rid of it.

I passed on the Icon unit because it looked really flimsy. I think there's a new one. The FaderMaster Pro looked nice but what a waste of space...

The Behringer X-Touch compact looks OK but it also has way more controls than I need. And it's about the ugliest controller I've ever seen...

Still looking... I might just buy another Zero and cut it in half.

rgames


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## coprhead6

rgames said:


> I was on a similar quest recently for a 4-8 fader unit and couldn't find anything that was compact with decent-quality decent-length faders - everything comes with a bunch of other controls that I never use or is super flimsy. I had a Novation Zero SL MkII and it was a solid unit w/ great feel (not motorized) but I only ever used the fader half, so it was a big waste of space and I got rid of it.
> 
> I passed on the Icon unit because it looked really flimsy. I think there's a new one. The FaderMaster Pro looked nice but what a waste of space...
> 
> The Behringer X-Touch compact looks OK but it also has way more controls than I need. And it's about the ugliest controller I've ever seen...
> 
> Still looking... I might just buy another Zero and cut it in half.
> 
> rgames




Barring some miracle find, I will be picking up the Icon unit this week. I will let you know my findings regarding the build quality and feel of the faders.


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## chimuelo

This is very good for faders and snapshot/save.
Used these live and they're heavy little metal boxes but the faders have to be pushed.


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## chimuelo

I velcroed 4 of these so I didn't have to use the jittery KS88 faders.
Lower left shows it size.


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## CACKLAND

Like you all, couldn't find something that represented simplisticity, minimalistic and elegant. So I built my own. Simple matte black cnc aluminium enclosure, 100mm faders x 8. Currently in completion.

Would have purchased the JL Cooper Masterfader, however didn't personally feel it deserved its price tag.

My custom controller fits my needs.
Modulation : Expression : Volume : Mic Postions plus additional faders


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## Polarity

More than a year ago I made my own custom midi CC controller designing an overlay sheet onto two units of Korg nanoKontrol 2...
I use it with various softsynths and a few Kontakt orchestral libraries: I'm very happy with it.






More infos here if you are interested:
http://www.andreapriora.com/studiotools.html
[EDIT: updated link]


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## muk

DFader could be a software solution to control midi ccs with FaderPort. I don't have it, so I don't know how good it is:

http://www.deviltechnologies.com/index.php/dfader

Then there is a little known german manufacturer that has a modular DAW controller:

https://www.asparion.de/en/electronics/d400.html

It looks nice and sturdy, but it's not cheap. Again, no experience with it.


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## ag75

I just picked up one of these on Craigslist for cheap. Haven't really played around with it yet, but it seems promising.

http://lividinstruments.com/products/alias8/


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## Smikes77

muk said:


> DFader could be a software solution to control midi ccs with FaderPort. I don't have it, so I don't know how good it is:
> 
> http://www.deviltechnologies.com/index.php/dfader
> 
> Then there is a little known german manufacturer that has a modular DAW controller:
> 
> https://www.asparion.de/en/electronics/d400.html
> 
> It looks nice and sturdy, but it's not cheap. Again, no experience with it.



Stay away from the asparion. 

I bought it and then sent it back. They have absolutely no idea how to work it with any leading DAW. And it doesn't control midi cc data.


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## muk

Smikes77 said:


> Stay away from the asparion.
> 
> I bought it and then sent it back. They have absolutely no idea how to work it with any leading DAW. And it doesn't control midi cc data.



Good to know. Thanks for the warning.


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## chimuelo

JL Cooper was already mentioned too but this is still a favorite for performers and composers.


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## coprhead6

I heard they discontinued the PC 1600x?


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## rgames

coprhead6 said:


> I heard they discontinued the PC 1600x?


I think that's correct. I'd love it if they bring it back in an 8-fader-only version.

The problem is I think that market is too small to make it worth their (or anyone else's) while.


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## rgames

What somebody needs to do is create motorized fader caps that you can put on top of a tablet mixer in Lemur or the like.

The technology is there, somebody just needs to bring it to market.

But I think haptic feedback is the better long-term solution.


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## synthpunk

There on Craigslist, Ebay, and Reverb often. 



coprhead6 said:


> I heard they discontinued the PC 1600x?


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## stonzthro

rgames said:


> What somebody needs to do is create motorized fader caps that you can put on top of a tablet mixer in Lemur or the like.



I'd LOVE to see a motorized MIDI CC fader, I don't think it is possible, unless you use an AVID Mix and Cubase; Guy uses this, but I know some people don't like it for some reason - can't really remember because I haven't made the move to Cubase.

A bank of 4 moving MIDI CCs would be worth $1k to me.


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## Gabriel Oliveira

stonzthro said:


> AVID Mix and Cubase



Trevor Morris


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## Soundhound

Would the Behringer X-Touch do this? It has motorized faders and can control CCs I think? Maybe the faders only move for mixer automation?



stonzthro said:


> I'd LOVE to see a motorized MIDI CC fader, I don't think it is possible, unless you use an AVID Mix and Cubase; Guy uses this, but I know some people don't like it for some reason - can't really remember because I haven't made the move to Cubase.
> 
> A bank of 4 moving MIDI CCs would be worth $1k to me.


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## tack

Soundhound said:


> Would the Behringer X-Touch do this? It has motorized faders and can control CCs I think? Maybe the faders only move for mixer automation?


If it works like other things, it should just be a matter of sending back the CC value on the same CC/channel to cause the fader to move. I.e. if you have a fader configured to send out channel 1 CC7, sending a channel 1 CC7 value back to the device will cause it to sync. I can't say for sure this is how the Behringer works, but this is how a number MIDI controllers work anyway.


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## Gerhard Westphalen

Soundhound said:


> Would the Behringer X-Touch do this? It has motorized faders and can control CCs I think? Maybe the faders only move for mixer automation?



Only for mixer automation unless you're working with the CC's as automation data but that can be a pain compared to using it in the midi editors.


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## Soundhound

As I thought, oh well. CCs in automation I've fooled with a little, it's nice to have separate tracks for each, but kind of wagging the dog to change over to accommodate the hardware controller I guess. 



Gerhard Westphalen said:


> Only for mixer automation unless you're working with the CC's as automation data but that can be a pain compared to using it in the midi editors.


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## whinecellar

This guy definitely looks intriguing... Alps faders, metal chassis...

http://iconproaudio.com/product/platform-m/


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## tack

whinecellar said:


> This guy definitely looks intriguing... Alps faders, metal chassis...


It's certainly the right size for me. Not a fan of the red buttons -- I wonder if the backlight can be turned off.

Edit: checked out a couple videos. In spite of the promo images, it looks like they're not _always _on.

Kind of tempted by this unit. Will RTFM.

Having RTFMed, they do have software (Windows and Mac) and allow the controls to be configured in a user defined way, which I want, however it wasn't clear to me if it works like other things (like my Kontrol S88 or Midi Fighter Twister) where the controls can be set by _sending _a MIDI event to it. I've emailed the company to ask. If it supports this (and I think it should), I'll buy one.


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## coprhead6

I just watched a video of someone demoing the new Spitfire Symphonic Brass library and he was using the Behringer B-Control BCF2000. It's only $150 - $200, looks solid, and is recommended by the guy that is doing exactly what I need it for. Maybe I will skip the Icon iControls and just go for this. 

 (2:45)


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## rgames

coprhead6 said:


> Behringer B-Control BCF2000


Just be aware that it's not touch-sensitive. I bought one many years ago never considering that someone would make motorized faders that are non-touch-sensitive. I still can't figure that out. Also, the motors were really loud.

Given that it's pointless as a motorized fader bank I think there are many better options among the non-motorized offerings. The Novation Zero was a vastly higher quality piece of kit.

rgames


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## Alatar

Curious, because I do not have much knowledge about faders:
What do you mean by "touch-sensitive"? I understand how a keyboard can be touch-sensitive. But a fader?



rgames said:


> Just be aware that it's not touch-sensitive. I bought one many years ago never considering that someone would make motorized faders that are non-touch-sensitive. I still can't figure that out. Also, the motors were really loud.
> 
> Given that it's pointless as a motorized fader bank I think there are many better options among the non-motorized offerings. The Novation Zero was a vastly higher quality piece of kit.
> 
> rgames


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## synthpunk

It's a fine choice for the money, as rgames pointed out the faders motors are on the noisy side. I choose the newer Xtouch Compact because of the extra knobs to use on softsynths.


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## tack

synthpunk said:


> It's a fine choice for the money, as rgames pointed out the faders motors are on the noisy side. I choose the newer Xtouch Compact because of the extra knobs to use on softsynths.


How do you find the motor noise on the X-Touch?


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## chimuelo

stonzthro said:


> A bank of 4 moving MIDI CCs would be worth $1k to me.



BCF 2000 is excellent for this.
Just use Mountain Utilities or other 3rd party tweaks and you get 8 faders with twice the resolution of a modulation wheel.

I dont gig with mine but use it for automating synth parameters while I play.
Yamaha Montage calls this motion seqeuencing.
I call it multiple parameter modulation.


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## novaburst

rgames said:


> Just be aware that it's not touch-sensitive



There is no need for touch sensitive with this control surface, (BCF2000) just by the slightest touch on any of the faders it engages and displays it inside your DAW this is why i love this so much : So glad i got this, an ebay great deal, looks plane and simple but inside is a pretty big monster, with the server build this is another over the moon addition to my setup, when the guy wrote on ebay it is in mint condition, he meant it.

It goes strait into mackie mode, using the USB just clicked on mackie inside of cubase and that was it, the faders moved into place and i was away,


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## rgames

Alatar said:


> Curious, because I do not have much knowledge about faders:
> What do you mean by "touch-sensitive"? I understand how a keyboard can be touch-sensitive. But a fader?


Touch-sensitive faders allow you to grab a moving fader and it will disable the motor so you can add/change previous automation data with the new data that you're inputting. It's the way every other motorized fader bank is designed.

You can't do that with the BCF. If the faders are moving all you can do is sit in awe and watch their wonderful motion. You can, of course, disable the motion and it will once again respond to your commands but then what's the point of having moving faders if you have to manually disable them every time you want to input new data?

It's a completely illogical way to design a moving fader surface. Unless you just like watching faders move around with the knowledge that you can't use them for anything.

rgames

EDIT: simpler explanation: if you have your mixer set to "read" automation then you can't use the BCF2000.


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## stonzthro

I've never seen a touch response fader track MIDI CC, outside of Guy and Trevor Morris, but I'm on Logic, so their approach is useless to me. Chim, are you saying your faders chase MIDI CC, and you can grab them in flight to start over writing?


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## Alatar

OK, I see. Thanks for the explanation. 



rgames said:


> EDIT: simpler explanation: if you have your mixer set to "read" automation then you can't use the BCF2000.


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## novaburst

rgames said:


> Touch-sensitive faders allow you to grab a moving fader and it will disable the motor so you can add/change previous automation data with the new data that you're inputting. It's the way every other motorized fader bank is designed.
> 
> You can't do that with the BCF. If the faders are moving all you can do is sit in awe and watch their wonderful motion. You can, of course, disable the motion and it will once again respond to your commands but then what's the point of having moving faders if you have to manually disable them every time you want to input new data?
> 
> It's a completely illogical way to design a moving fader surface. Unless you just like watching faders move around with the knowledge that you can't use them for anything.
> 
> rgames
> 
> EDIT: simpler explanation: if you have your mixer set to "read" automation then you can't use the BCF2000.


ok ok i get the message, ...........my main purpose for motorized faders, is when moving across the track mixer it adjust to what ever setting you have entered, and thats basically it, this was of course a nightmare using a none motorized control surface having to reset the faders all the time, going deeper into the DAW, and more i would use the mouse, to rewrite automation as it seems more natural, but for the pots and fader use its more natural to use the BCF2000, or any control surface with motorized faders,


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## synthpunk

Better. The unit is designed by the Midas Mixer Group and made on Music Group high end assembly line so quality is very good IMO.



tack said:


> How do you find the motor noise on the X-Touch?


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## synthpunk

Trevor is using a Avid S3 (list $5K usd) now split between DAW and Midi control with Cubase & Protools.



Gabriel Oliveira said:


> Trevor Morris


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## Gabriel Oliveira

synthpunk said:


> Trevor is using a Avid S3 (list $5K usd) now split between DAW and Midi control with Cubase & Protools.



exactly


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## chimuelo

stonzthro said:


> I've never seen a touch response fader track MIDI CC, outside of Guy and Trevor Morris, but I'm on Logic, so their approach is useless to me. Chim, are you saying your faders chase MIDI CC, and you can grab them in flight to start over writing?



Yeah.
Stock BCF is really old.
3rd party software and firmware can be used to make the BCF accept SysEx commands in realtime for disabling or enabling push commands, manual over ride, very flexible stuff.
One program/preset on ghe BCF can switch to disable/enable.
But if the new X Touch touch sensative faders Id just grab that unit.
BCF was a great unit but wasnt really designed to be bi directional.
X Touch proably will do everything 10 years of 3rd party develpment added to the BCF and then some.


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## synthpunk

Another affordable option is the Nektar Panorama P1. 265 usd @ B&H. I choose to spend another $100 and go with the Xtouch Compact to get motorized faders and better build quality IMO. But it is slightly less profile (with a right angle usb cord you would save allot of depth), great DAW integration, and 16 knobs.
http://www.nektartech.com/panorama-p1.html


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## Soundhound

I have the P1 and it works really well (Logic X mostly for me). Not the most intuitive thing in the world but once you get used to it it's very useful. Just make sure you keep up with driver updates. I've had some gnarly problems when updating OS X (on El Cap now) and not checking with Nektar on their latest updates/compatibility etc.


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## tack

I decided to take a chance and order the iCON Platform M. They appear to be out of stock everywhere. I ordered from JRR. B&H does free shipping to Canada, but absurdly their online business is shut down for days to observe some religious holiday.

So I decided to pay the exorbitant shipping costs. Standard cost of having the nerve to be Canadian.


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## 5Lives

If only Behringer would release a Mac editor for their X-Touch series...


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## synthpunk

They observe traditional Hacedic Jewish holidays, Shabbat, etc. There are some super nice folks working there (I always get a free knish and tea even when just browsing). They are the largest non chain store in the U.S. and I respect there beliefs. There are times I have had to go or order somewhere else.



tack said:


> B&H does free shipping to Canada, but absurdly their online business is shut down for days to observe some religious holiday.




Do you use Logic X ? I find I can do all my assignments in the Controller Assignments/Learn Assignments function.



5Lives said:


> If only Behringer would release a Mac editor for their X-Touch series...


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## tack

I don't respect their beliefs but I respect their ability to have them. If you know what I mean.

In any case, I am impatient. Though if I had known JRR was out of stock before I ordered I may have looked elsewhere.


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## coprhead6

It was the first days of Sukkot... if you're interested, google it.


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## 5Lives

synthpunk said:


> Do you use Logic X ? I find I can do all my assignments in the Controller Assignments/Learn Assignments function.



I do - that's a great idea. So you recommend the X-Touch then?


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## wst3

OT, but... as a younger man fascinated with photography I browsed a B&H circular once or twice. Ultimately I could not support two expensive endeavors, and music won easily. Lo and behold, B&H became a player in that space too.

I'm not sure why, but I was wary, and chose not to do business with them.

About 4 or 5 years ago I was in Manhattan on a service call and ended up parking across the street from B&H. I had some time to kill so I wandered in...

It is an amazing store! I was fairly overwhelmed by all the stuff! It was crowded (this was the week after Black Friday), and yet I did not witness a single rude customer or shopkeeper. I spent a few minutes browsing in the pro audio section, had a nice chat with a gentlemen about my aging camera bodies and lenses, picked up a gaming headset for my son for Christmas, a portable recorder for a theatre where I volunteer, a dead cat for my own portable recorder, and then a very patient sales person walked me through selecting a Bluetooth earpiece for my phone.

Now I have this pile of stuff, and I'm in danger of being late to my service call, and I have to check out. I considered just bailing, but I didn't. Even with a million people in the store (a slight exaggeration) I probably spent no more than five minutes in the queue from the time I stepped into line until I walked out the door.

A thoroughly pleasant experience, some of the nicest sales people, great product selection, very aggressive pricing, super service... I'm no longer a field service guy, so I don't get to visit as often, but I still shop there, even if it is online.


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## Pixelee

synthpunk said:


> They observe traditional Hacedic Jewish holidays, Shabbat, etc. There are some super nice folks working there (I always get a free knish and tea even when just browsing). They are the largest non chain store in the U.S. and I respect there beliefs. There are times I have had to go or order somewhere else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you use Logic X ? I find I can do all my assignments in the Controller Assignments/Learn Assignments function.


Is your main DAW Logic ? I kind of want to ask about how the X touch is with Cubase workflow


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## synthpunk

Hello Pixelle, yes my main DAW is LogicX.

Perhaps this will help you though





Pixelee said:


> Is your main DAW Logic ? I kind of want to ask about how the X touch is with Cubase workflow


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## Pixelee

That video is nice! Thank you . How is it in logic controlling the ccs ?


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## novaburst

Pixelee said:


> That video is nice! Thank you . How is it in logic controlling the ccs ?


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## tack

I just got my iCON Platform M. It's going to take a while to configure it, but with the help of Bome MIDI Translator Pro, I think I'll be able to integrate this nicely into my daily use.

This is my first time using a product that has motorized faders. So my very first experience after plugging it in was odd: grab a fader, move it, release, and it immediately snaps back to where it started. Makes sense in retrospect, but it caught me off guard.

It worked fine out of the box as a Mackie Control Universal controller in my DAW (Reaper). But I don't want to use it as a standard mixer, I want to use it for all manner of things: controlling CCs for performance (especially this), controlling various system volumes in TotalMix FX, triggering macros and other workflow niceties.

My first thought was: can I even use this for generic CC control? It wouldn't do to have the faders snap back every time. The simplest solution is to have Bome MT send back to the Platform M all the CC data it gets from it. This prevents the reverting.

From there I was pretty quickly able to get it to control TotalMix FX (which I had already had configured to integrate with MIDI Fighter Twister, which is actually a great unit if encoders is what you want). This integration is bidirectional of course, so adjusting from TotalMix moves the fader accordingly. I have some rules in Bome MT to provide this glue.

The configuration software for the Platform M, iMap, is a bit clunky but it looks like I will be able to configure the shit out of this unit. One thing I was happy to see is that the encoders are also push buttons, so that's one more configurable item.

After a few days I might completely change my opinion, but so far I think this product is going to do very nicely. Very low profile, configurable, and looks nice (to me anyway).

I'll follow up in a few days with more experiences.


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## novaburst

tack said:


> just got my iCON Platform M. I



It looks very versatile, nice and compact, looks like it will do the job your asking,


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## synthpunk

Very good per the additional videos posted above.

I am using the Compact 16 knobs and many buttons to control my U-he, Serum, Arcsyn, Logic, etc. softsynths. Faders 1-7 for Midi CC's, Fader 8 and master for current channel and master, and transport for transport. With a Ipad and keyboard for Logic Remote shortcuts, Kaoss pad for X/Y, and a Nanokontrol for misc. I am very happy with my control options now.

One caveat is the Behringer mac editor still has not been released and its been over a year now. I asked service about it and got the typical patronizing no ETA reply. Still I find you can do almost everything you want using using Logics own Controller Assignment function.



Pixelee said:


> That video is nice! Thank you . How is it in logic controlling the ccs ?


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## Pixelee

Thank you all for the information !


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## higgs

tack said:


> I just got my iCON Platform M. It's going to take a while to configure it, but with the help of Bome MIDI Translator Pro, I think I'll be able to integrate this nicely into my daily use.
> I'll follow up in a few days with more experiences.



I've been looking at this recently - please do post your experiences.


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## chimuelo

Bome MIDI Translator Pro is great kit.
Liked it so much I bought the Bome Box.


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## higgs

chimuelo said:


> Bome MIDI Translator Pro is great kit.
> Liked it so much I bought the Bome Box.



So... I picked up Bome MIDI Translator Pro about a year ago, got super excited about it, but kind of abandoned it. So now I've picked up this http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g13-advanced-gameboard (Logitech G13)gaming pad (which seems very promising in terms of being configurable) and recently was pointed to another piece of software called http://steim.org/product/junxion/ (junXion), but it seems like it might do mostly the same things as Bome MTP - do you have any experience/thoughts with junXion, chim?


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## chimuelo

No, but it steers multiple streams of data from a single source.
That tells me it's very versatile.

I like using CC# 88 & 89, each with thier own Expression Pedal.
But each expression pedal sends 9 x different CC#'s to a hardware Module that emulates a Hammond B3 organ.
The real instrument has 9 drawbacks on lower and upper keyboards.
Each of those CC#'s can be steered or as I say in Bone land, modulated by a variety of processes like a lag processor or curve modifier.

In short, I swell various drawbars using expression pedals in real time.
Keeping both hands playing notes.

You could not do that on a real B3.

No biggie for most folks.
But I have to play entire Horn Sections with one hand, using switches for swells and falls, etc.
The other hand on Hammond B3.
So having complex MIDI tricks is a must.

The Bome Box is basically a hardware back up with wireless/wifi in case my PC takes a dump.

But the jinx looks impressive on paper.


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## higgs

chimuelo said:


> ...the jinx looks impressive on paper.



Thanks for the assessment - it's helpful to have that input to determine whether or not I should spend the time and dive into junxion a bit to see what she can do.


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## chimuelo

Careful not to get too lost into these seemingly endless resource packed apps.
I found myself getting lazy by having left hand section harmonies triggered by a sustain pedal.

Tried to play the part manually and discovered my fingers forgot how.


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## higgs

Good advice, thank you chim!

Side question: is your current avatar a depiction of the reversal of romantic relations between Scottish men and their flock?


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## Maximvs

I also been looking for a slim and compact fader controller... I have been using for the past few years Korg Nano Kontrol 2 but found that a few of the fader caps are actually sticking to the finger and detaching themselves and had to glue them.

This one http://iconproaudio.com/product/icontrols/ as a few have already pointed out, looks quite nice and wonder what the Joystick is used for.


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## TerryD

Have a look at the Behringer BCF2000..its small and handy and does the job (motorized faders may be a bit noisy) 
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BCF2000
http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/behringer-bcf2000-bcr2000


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## coprhead6

Massimo said:


> This one http://iconproaudio.com/product/icontrols/ as a few have already pointed out, looks quite nice and wonder what the Joystick is used for.



OP here... I received my iControls about a week ago. It is a really fantastic product and I highly recommend it. The faders feel very smooth and are perfect for inputting dynamics, vibrato, expression, etc. The joystick is basically a trackpad / mouse alternative... Not very useful for me, but it could come in handy.


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## tack

I don't think the BCF2000 qualifies as slim and compact.

The iControls certainly does. The Platform M sits in between the iControls and BCF2000 in terms of size. For me the size is just right -- or at least it's as big as I'd want to go, but the faders span most of its depth, so you maximize the resolution of the fader without consuming a lot of space.

The Platform M's motor is not overly noisy, though it's not as quiet as it _could_ be. There's no mechanical hum, but it looks like a stepper motor so for fine changes there's more of a clicking noise. From videos I've seen of the BCF2000, it's less gritty in its movement but it's still not smooth. Fortunately I don't hear it when the music is playing.

So far I'd recommend the Platform M. I'm going to do a video review on it next week probably.


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## AlexRuger

tack said:


> So far I'd recommend the Platform M. I'm going to do a video review on it next week probably.



You ever get around to doing this? I'm really considering getting one.


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## kgdrum

+1
I just ordered on Amazon,they're back ordered so if possible I'd really like to see feedback from a user before the order progresses.......

Thanks


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## tack

AlexRuger said:


> You ever get around to doing this? I'm really considering getting one.


Unfortunately no. Time does have a way of getting on, doesn't it.

I did write more about it on another thread, though.


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## paulwr

synthpunk said:


> I just got a Behringer X Touch Compact. Jeff Rona recommend it. I like it very much. I have the extra pots assigned to softsynth control. You can toggle between Daw mode and Midi CC mode quickly, build quality is very good. $399 usd. one bad sign, the Mac editor still has not come out.
> 
> https://www.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Computer-Audio/Desktop-Controllers/X-TOUCH-COMPACT/p/P0B3L
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap... Korg Nanokontrol get the job done for $60. But it is plastic and cheap feeling.



Thanks for the tip, this is most likely the direction I will go. And thanks for mentioning Jeff Rona. Just hope it isn't too noisy, at least not as noisy as their older unit, *http://www.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Computer-Audio/Desktop-Controllers/BCF2000/p/P0246 (BCF2000)*


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## synthpunk

No it's much better than that the quality seems to be there you'll be pretty happy just don't count on it a Mac editor it's nowhere in sight even though they promised one but if you use logic or Cubase there shortly other ways to go in and make your silence and your Daw



paulwr said:


> Thanks for the tip, this is most likely the direction I will go. And thanks for mentioning Jeff Rona. Just hope it isn't too noisy, at least not as noisy as their older unit, *http://www.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Computer-Audio/Desktop-Controllers/BCF2000/p/P0246 (BCF2000)*


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## PaulBrimstone

This one is working nicely for me to control expression, vibrato, volume etc. in Logic: https://us.novationmusic.com/launch/launch-control-xl#

It's solid feeling with smooth faders (fairly short; about 60mm, but that works for me), plays nicely with Logic, has a Mac editor ... and lots of extra knobs and buttons for other stuff like VI parameters if you are feeling synthy.

A whole lot better than the Behringer, which is old by today's standards, and funky with Logic. $150.


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## paulwr

synthpunk said:


> No it's much better than that the quality seems to be there you'll be pretty happy just don't count on it a Mac editor it's nowhere in sight even though they promised one but if you use logic or Cubase there shortly other ways to go in and make your silence and your Daw


I use four computers, all PC so no problem there, thanks.


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## paulwr

PaulBrimstone said:


> This one is working nicely for me to control expression, vibrato, volume etc. in Logic: https://us.novationmusic.com/launch/launch-control-xl#
> 
> It's solid feeling with smooth faders (fairly short; about 60mm, but that works for me), plays nicely with Logic, has a Mac editor ... and lots of extra knobs and buttons for other stuff like VI parameters if you are feeling synthy.
> 
> A whole lot better than the Behringer, which is old by today's standards, and funky with Logic. $150.


This one was on my list. But I thought is didn't have comprehensive editing for assigning cc's, but from your post sounds like it does, just found out a composer here in Nashville that I know uses the Launch Control XL, too. I should check that out at his place. The Behringer X-Touch Compact we've been discussing is the new one from this last summer, not the old old one. Nice to have running MC Control and in an instant back to custom cc's setup, few units do that, you often have to re-boot the hardware to get into the different mode. Plus the knobs have light rings for settings reference.


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## paulwr

synthpunk said:


> Very good per the additional videos posted above.
> 
> I am using the Compact 16 knobs and many buttons to control my U-he, Serum, Arcsyn, Logic, etc. softsynths. Faders 1-7 for Midi CC's, Fader 8 and master for current channel and master, and transport for transport. With a Ipad and keyboard for Logic Remote shortcuts, Kaoss pad for X/Y, and a Nanokontrol for misc. I am very happy with my control options now.
> 
> One caveat is the Behringer mac editor still has not been released and its been over a year now. I asked service about it and got the typical patronizing no ETA reply. Still I find you can do almost everything you want using using Logics own Controller Assignment function.



I just got the X-Touch Compact today. I'm finding that when the faders are used for controlling cc's, they don't follow the automation on playback. Only mixing in Mackie Control mode do the motorized faders follow automation. Is it that way for you? I'm hoping to find out how to get faders to follow all automation.

Thanks,
Paul


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## Ron Kords

I just got a Platform M on test. Unfortunately Im on Mac so no iMap SW.

Does anyone know how I could get this thing working as a CC controller without iMap. I'm on Logic x.

Worked straight out of the box for mixing and seems great in that regard. If I cant control midi though and there's no ETA on iMap for Mac it will have to go back :-(


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## Viegaard

Im also looking for one. I would stay away from motorized faders though since they offer no resistance when moving them manually with your hands.


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## Ron Kords

I gave the Platform back as without Mac software it was looking a bit iffy. If you only want something for mixing and can get the faders to sit still if tracking in the same room it's probably a great buy.

Got the Nectar P1 after Christof's recommendation and love it. Does everything you would hope. Cc control, mix control and transport....


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## synthpunk

Move the parameter that you want to control then go to logic X control surfaces
/learn assignment. It should list the parameter that you moved then move the physical slider on your control device and you should see the assignment come up.

="Ron Kords, post: 4033725, member: 13698"]I just got a Platform M on test. Unfortunately Im on Mac so no iMap SW.

Does anyone know how I could get this thing working as a CC controller without iMap. I'm on Logic x.

Worked straight out of the box for mixing and seems great in that regard. If I cant control midi though and there's no ETA on iMap for Mac it will have to go back :-http://hexler.net/software/touchosc([/QUOTE]


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## Ron Kords

synthpunk said:


> Move the parameter that you want to then go to logic X control surfaces
> /learn assignment. It should list the parameter that you moved then move the physical slider on your control device and you should see the assignment come up.
> 
> ="Ron Kords, post: 4033725, member: 13698"]I just got a Platform M on test. Unfortunately Im on Mac so no iMap SW.
> 
> Does anyone know how I could get this thing working as a CC controller without iMap. I'm on Logic x.
> 
> Worked straight out of the box for mixing and seems great in that regard. If I cant control midi though and there's no ETA on iMap for Mac it will have to go back :-http://hexler.net/software/touchosc(


[/QUOTE]
Thanks Synthpunk. Finally worked that out after much head scratching... 

For sure a great little box. May take another look when Mac SW arrives....


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## AlexRuger

CACKLAND said:


> Like you all, couldn't find something that represented simplisticity, minimalistic and elegant. So I built my own. Simple matte black cnc aluminium enclosure, 100mm faders x 8. Currently in completion.
> 
> Would have purchased the JL Cooper Masterfader, however didn't personally feel it deserved its price tag.
> 
> My custom controller fits my needs.
> Modulation : Expression : Volume : Mic Postions plus additional faders



Did you ever finish this? Would love to see it.


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## CACKLAND

AlexRuger said:


> Did you ever finish this? Would love to see it.


Sure did, I'll upload a photo for you.


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## Gabriel Oliveira

CACKLAND said:


> Sure did, I'll upload a photo for you.



Wanna see too


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## CACKLAND

Here are some photos guys.



EDIT: Not sure if you can access the photos, as isn't showing on my screen. If not, click the 'imgur' text


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## synergy543

CACKLAND said:


> Here are some photos guys


Nice long-throw faders! What did you do for the electronics and software? How would you assign the faders without a display?


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## CACKLAND

Thank you.

Electronics - Teensy 3.2 https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy32.jpg

Encoded the software using Arduino / Teensyduino. The assignment of the faders was set up in the coding stage. Very simple to reassign, then upload the new code to the Teensy 3.2. The is no software needed to run the device, other than when coding setup.

It's a plug and play device.


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## Ashermusic

So are you taking orders from us? How much to build us one?


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## CACKLAND

Ashermusic said:


> So are you taking orders from us? How much to build us one?



There was no original intent to advertise and take orders however if there are enough willing customers (minimum 25 orders - to make it manufacturally cost effective and feasible), i'd definitely consider setting some time aside to create a small production of these.


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## Ashermusic

CACKLAND said:


> There was no original intent to advertise and take orders however if there are enough willing customers (minimum 25 orders - to make it manufacturally cost effective and feasible), i'd definitely consider setting some time aside to create a small production of these.




Well, depending on the price, I am interested.


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## holywilly

Count me in, I'm extremely interested it! That simple fader controller is what we all need!!! I live outside of US, do you accept international order???


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## Smikes77

CACKLAND said:


> There was no original intent to advertise and take orders however if there are enough willing customers (minimum 25 orders - to make it manufacturally cost effective and feasible), i'd definitely consider setting some time aside to create a small production of these.



Same boat as Jay. I'd buy one off you if you decided to build more.


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## synthpunk

Impressed. Did you consider a 16 fader version as well? 

I would suggest if this gets going at some point that you create a dedicated thread for it.


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## Ashermusic

I would actually settle for four really nice feeling faders.


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## stonzthro

Interested too!


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## Mizar

I already PM'd the guy practically begging him for those delicious looking faders. I'd definitely buy one!


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## CACKLAND

synthpunk said:


> Impressed. Did you consider a 16 fader version as well?
> 
> I would suggest if this gets going at some point that you create a dedicated thread for it.


Yes this is something that was considered during the initial prototyping phase. Will consider a thread for those who are interested, thank you Synthpunk for the suggestion. 

Great to see a small amount of interest. Due to the enclosure manufacturing and machining, the cost is reduced by the number of orders are placed. Originally for the 'one off' design and manufacture, it was quite costly and not recommended. 

For the initial order minimum of 25 - Preliminary costs would be around $250 USD. *Please note, this may vary.


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## holywilly

The cost is reasonable!


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## higgs

CACKLAND said:


> There was no original intent to advertise and take orders however if there are enough willing customers (minimum 25 orders - to make it manufacturally cost effective and feasible), i'd definitely consider setting some time aside to create a small production of these.


Also interested - the price seems reasonable.


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## synthpunk

I would be in for one for myself and possibly more for other touring rigs.

Have you thought about a crowdfunding effort?


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## muk

At around 250$ I'm definitely interested too. Kickstarter might be a good idea to finance the project. I can see people over at gearslutz being interested in such a box as well. I think it shouldn't be a problem to find 25 people who are interested in such a box. Great work Cackland.


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## AlexRuger

I'm definitely interested too. You built the enclosure yourself then, as well? Do you have a lot of experience with machining or was it relatively simple to do?


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## rgames

Nice!

I think you could do all the programming/setup/display via Lemur/OSC. Lemur/OSC is great for buttons, but faders - not so much. But the display is really nice to have so you know what's what and can change it. Something like that fader bank tied to a Lemur display would be even more awesome. You should talk to the MIDI Kinetics guy.

rgames


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## Vanni

I'm in as well, interested in purchasing one!
Good job!


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## higgs

Perhaps I'm aiming high or going a bit niche with this request/wish for controller design, but here I goes:

I'd absolutely *kill* to have a controller that is 19" wide, and say 3 or 4U in height... A controller with a tidy form and dimensions that are dialed in to be rack mounted (if one so chooses), is right there next to my other dream for a similarly designed travel-style keyboard like the CME Xkeys, only rack mountable and with more responsive keys.


Is this too much to ask for developers to make gear exactly to my precise specifications while passing the costs on to all consumers other than myself (& folks here too of course)? No, it's not at all unreasonable - not in the least.


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## synthpunk

You're probably never going to get the perfect solution especially for a niche bunch like us unless you make it.

How about rack panel mounting a used Peavey PC - 1600X? About a $200 investment and a little ingenuity.



higgs said:


> Perhaps I'm aiming high or going a bit niche with this request/wish for controller design, but here I goes:
> 
> I'd absolutely *kill* to have a controller that is 19" wide, and say 3 or 4U in height... A controller with a tidy form and dimensions that are dialed in to be rack mounted (if one so chooses), is right there next to my other dream for a similarly designed travel-style keyboard like the CME Xkeys, only rack mountable and with more responsive keys.
> 
> 
> Is this too much to ask for developers to make gear exactly to my precise specifications while passing the costs on to all consumers other than myself (& folks here too of course)? No, it's not at all unreasonable - not in the least.


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## higgs

synthpunk said:


> How about rack panel mounting a used Peavey PC - 1600X?



I've considered the Peavey and haven't ruled it out. The only thing that's kept me from picking that one up is a handful of reports from folks who aren't fond of the feel and responsiveness of the faders. Is your experience different with it? Thanks for the reply, synthpunk 

I did just find the rack mountable http://ag-kw.de/product/oktakontrol-oktakel-bundle/ (OKTAKONTROL) on the intercommunicatoryhighway, and that controller looks promising and is priced right. 




synthpunk said:


> About a $200 investment and a little ingenuity.


I might be able to come up with the former, but the latter is another story...


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## synthpunk

I've had two in the past in touring rigs and they were good I don't think they have Penny & Giles faders in them of course but for the money you can get them used that expecially if you can get the 1600 X I'd say it's worth it for $200 or less and they're built like tanks unlike most of the plastic crap that's out now if that helps. If your faders are a little stiff you can always spray them with caig fader cleaner.

Maybe you can talk Cackland into making a few custom 16 fader rack units although it will probably be much more than the $250 he has roughly mentioned on the other unit unless you can find a stock metal rack cabinet.



higgs said:


> I've considered the Peavey and haven't ruled it out. The only thing that's kept me from picking that one up is a handful of reports from folks who aren't fond of the feel and responsiveness of the faders. Is your experience different with it? Thanks for the reply, synthpunk
> 
> I did just find the rack mountable http://ag-kw.de/product/oktakontrol-oktakel-bundle/ (OKTAKONTROL) on the intercommunicatoryhighway, and that controller looks promising and is priced right.
> 
> I might be able to come up with the former, but the latter is another story...


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## CACKLAND

Hi Everyone,

From the suggestion from Synthpunk, I have created a thread for the custom midi controller.

Please visit the thread below:
http://vi-control.net/community/threads/fadercrtl.58734/

Thank you


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## AlexRuger

higgs said:


> Perhaps I'm aiming high or going a bit niche with this request/wish for controller design, but here I goes:
> 
> I'd absolutely *kill* to have a controller that is 19" wide, and say 3 or 4U in height... A controller with a tidy form and dimensions that are dialed in to be rack mounted (if one so chooses), is right there next to my other dream for a similarly designed travel-style keyboard like the CME Xkeys, only rack mountable and with more responsive keys.
> 
> 
> Is this too much to ask for developers to make gear exactly to my precise specifications while passing the costs on to all consumers other than myself (& folks here too of course)? No, it's not at all unreasonable - not in the least.



The Doepfer Regelwerk would like a word with you.


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## higgs

AlexRuger said:


> The Doepfer Regelwerk would like a word with you.



Haha, awesome! But I honestly thought I was in trouble for a just a moment. Thanks for the link, Alex!


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## synthpunk

Kraftwerk would also like a word with you Higgs! The Regelwerk was originally designed for them. 



higgs said:


> Haha, awesome! But I honestly thought I was in trouble for a just a moment. Thanks for the link, Alex!


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## CACKLAND

synthpunk said:


> Maybe you can talk Cackland into making a few custom 16 fader rack units although it will probably be much more than the $250 he has roughly mentioned on the other unit unless you can find a stock metal rack cabinet.


This is possible.


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## ridgero

Any new and good midi controller out there?


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## chimuelo

I pre paid for an 8 fader model with 4 x 2 Button modules and 4 x Encoders.
Faders on the bottom, other modules above.
It’s like getting a piece of a Physis K4 Master MIDI Controller.


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## ridgero

Wow, thats a good one, thanks!


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## chimuelo

Pricey but Modularity means DMX Lighting, or Mixing, photography, etc.


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## ilmai

Mixface is really compact and good, build quality feels excellent (although the tiny power switch is a bit annoying)


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## Cat

ilmai said:


> Mixface is really compact and good, build quality feels excellent (although the tiny power switch is a bit annoying)



How smooth are the feeders’ move? My Korg Nanokontrol is very bad...


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## Sean

Cat said:


> How smooth are the feeders’ move? My Korg Nanokontrol is very bad...


Would like to know this as well, mainly looking to buy the Mixface for the faders.


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## MexicanBreed

Sean said:


> Would like to know this as well, mainly looking to buy the Mixface for the faders.



Bump! Interested also!


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## babylonwaves

chimuelo said:


> I pre paid for an 8 fader model with 4 x 2 Button modules and 4 x Encoders.


@chimuelo great tip. bought one as well


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## ilmai

I posted my Mixface impressions in this thread, my opinion hasn't changed since I got it: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/studiologic-mixface-usb-bluetooth-midi-controller.70639/

Faders are super smooth, and like I said in the other thread, they have a bit of resistance so you're not going to move them by accident. Would buy again


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## amc3midicontrollers

I know, an old thread, but just in case you pass through here in 2022, we offer a nice little unit here: 








USB 100mm Fader MIDI Controller


We sell high quality, USB MIDI Controllers for music recording



amc3midicontrollers.com


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