# 100% Cinesamples composition - Searching for the Light



## willbedford (Oct 14, 2016)

Hi all,
This is the first composition I've posted here - a hybrid/fusion demo written for Cinesamples, featuring only their libraries.


Here are the libraries I used:
Cineperc Complete
Descant Horn
Dulcimer and Zither
African Marimba & Udu (new library released this week)
Cinestrings CORE
Cinebrass CORE
Cinewinds Core & Pro
Jerry's Pianos
Tina Guo
Piano in Blue
Cineharp
Cinestrings SOLO


Enjoy!


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## ghandizilla (Oct 14, 2016)

It's perfectly balanced. Love it! (Didn't know you could blend an african marimba this well in an orchestration  )


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## willbedford (Oct 14, 2016)

ghandizilla said:


> It's perfectly balanced. Love it! (Didn't know you could blend an african marimba this well in an orchestration  )


Thanks! It's recorded in the same hall as their other libraries, so it's pretty easy to blend.


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## J-M (Oct 14, 2016)

Absolutely beautiful... Had to press that "follow" button!


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## chrysshawk (Oct 14, 2016)

Very nice! Pretty dry and in your face with the signature Sony sound - just what Cinesamples seeks to deliver. Is this a birthday present for Mike Patti? 
On the tech side: Did you use any additional reverb for the orchestral sections?


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## jason.d (Oct 14, 2016)

That was really fun! Nice work!!


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## Rodney Money (Oct 14, 2016)

willbedford said:


> Hi all,
> This is the first composition I've posted here - a hybrid/fusion demo written for Cinesamples, featuring only their libraries.
> 
> 
> ...



Alright my friend, take my comments as either a grain of salt or an avalanche of powered snow. I enjoyed many aspects of your track especially the lighter percussive moments, the ethnic timbres, the new African Marimba and the Udu (did you have to eq the bass out of that sucker? Lol, jk,) but overall I was more impressed with your production skills than the overall composition itself. There is nothing wrong with your piece, it just sounds like you did the typical: write a chord progression, without going to the piano I think my ears are telling me am, G, dm maybe, write a horn melody over top of the accompaniment, add some softer vamping bridges that crescendo to the next louder part with an added epic percussion groove. We've heard this many, many times before, my friend. I simply think you could have put more time in the overall composition itself starting with more moving, articulated rhythmic parts in the melody but still keeping it beautiful instead of the common "arpeggiated whole-note horn melody that outlines the chords a little too much." The horn melody at the beginning has way too much edge in the sound that is grating to the ears, and I see what your are trying to do with the added Celtic Penny Whistle on top the second time, but it does not quite work creating too much of yen-yang. What horn patch are you using at the beginning? Solo Horn from Pro or another more epic patch? I would advice if you had to go with horn, keep that brassy edge off, keep it warm such as horn a2 in Core for example. But I would honestly not use horn at the beginning. We have heard it all before, and when you bring it back in the epic end it does absolutely nothing to make the piece sound bigger. I think you should start the piece with the penny whistle instead and just let it sing or the Uilleann Pipes or Border Pipes. You have this folky sound, timbre, going on, and then we hear not another folky instrument but horn. I know you are going for the noble, so keep the edge off the horn or totally change the solo instrument to something with a little more "personality" or character like the CineWind Pro Ethnic Winds, CineString Soloists, or something like Alto Flute. 

I would almost cut out from 1:00 to 1:10 since the strings do absolutely nothing more than sound like a background chordal progression and your emotion is being driven mainly by your percussion, not the strings. In that part I would have loved if the violins sang out the melody a little more in the homophonic texture so it did not sound simply as your chord progression with strings at forte with added percussion. I think a greater impact would've been if you did a huge, gradual buildup connecting :47 and 1:14 then letting out the full epic with the horn melody adding trumpets as an answer (you see, in African music you have call and responses, and the echo of call and response from horn to trumpets would have been pure genius, because it then tells of the culture and history of the African people since you introduced us to the Africa Marimba.) Little things like that is what sets composition and composers apart. Williams spends more time over his melodies than the actual composition itself. Instead of worrying about "write quickly, get the track out," take your time with the melody, how could you improved it, or did you just improvise over the top of the chord progression once you written out the accompaniment? And think what little subtleties could I use to make my piece seem a "little deeper." Overall though, great job. I just personally think with more time and more work, you can turn this piece into something greater with more substance.


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## InLight-Tone (Oct 14, 2016)

Definitely take Money's comments as a grain of salt/sand. Good job on this!


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## N.Caffrey (Oct 14, 2016)

I'd definitely be up for a tutorial where you show how you mix, sounds really good!


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## JBacal (Oct 14, 2016)

Superb production and mix!
--Jay


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## Nils Neumann (Oct 14, 2016)

Can you give us some insights on your mixing?
This production sounds awesome!


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## willbedford (Oct 14, 2016)

Thanks for the comments guys! Thanks @Rodney Money - lots to take in there.

Would people find a video overview of my session helpful? I could throw one together next week. That would be easier than trying to explain my production choices here.


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## Baron Greuner (Oct 14, 2016)

Pictures say a thousand words. Go for it.


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## Baron Greuner (Oct 14, 2016)

good track btw.


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## acicero (Oct 14, 2016)

Great mixing and production on this sucker. Would like a tutorial/walkthrough


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## Paul T McGraw (Oct 14, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Alright my friend, take my comments as either a grain of salt or an avalanche of powered snow. I enjoyed many aspects of your track especially the lighter percussive moments, the ethnic timbres, the new African Marimba and the Udu (did you have to eq the bass out of that sucker? Lol, jk,) but overall I was more impressed with your production skills than the overall composition itself. There is nothing wrong with your piece, it just sounds like you did the typical: write a chord progression, without going to the piano I think my ears are telling me am, G, dm maybe, write a horn melody over top of the accompaniment, add some softer vamping bridges that crescendo to the next louder part with an added epic percussion groove. We've heard this many, many times before, my friend. I simply think you could have put more time in the overall composition itself starting with more moving, articulated rhythmic parts in the melody but still keeping it beautiful instead of the common "arpeggiated whole-note horn melody that outlines the chords a little too much." The horn melody at the beginning has way too much edge in the sound that is grating to the ears, and I see what your are trying to do with the added Celtic Penny Whistle on top the second time, but it does not quite work creating too much of yen-yang. What horn patch are you using at the beginning? Solo Horn from Pro or another more epic patch? I would advice if you had to go with horn, keep that brassy edge off, keep it warm such as horn a2 in Core for example. But I would honestly not use horn at the beginning. We have heard it all before, and when you bring it back in the epic end it does absolutely nothing to make the piece sound bigger. I think you should start the piece with the penny whistle instead and just let it sing or the Uilleann Pipes or Border Pipes. You have this folky sound, timbre, going on, and then we hear not another folky instrument but horn. I know you are going for the noble, so keep the edge off the horn or totally change the solo instrument to something with a little more "personality" or character like the CineWind Pro Ethnic Winds, CineString Soloists, or something like Alto Flute.
> 
> I would almost cut out from 1:00 to 1:10 since the strings do absolutely nothing more than sound like a background chordal progression and your emotion is being driven mainly by your percussion, not the strings. In that part I would have loved if the violins sang out the melody a little more in the homophonic texture so it did not sound simply as your chord progression with strings at forte with added percussion. I think a greater impact would've been if you did a huge, gradual buildup connecting :47 and 1:14 then letting out the full epic with the horn melody adding trumpets as an answer (you see, in African music you have call and responses, and the echo of call and response from horn to trumpets would have been pure genius, because it then tells of the culture and history of the African people since you introduced us to the Africa Marimba.) Little things like that is what sets composition and composers apart. Williams spends more time over his melodies than the actual composition itself. Instead of worrying about "write quickly, get the track out," take your time with the melody, how could you improved it, or did you just improvise over the top of the chord progression once you written out the accompaniment? And think what little subtleties could I use to make my piece seem a "little deeper." Overall though, great job. I just personally think with more time and more work, you can turn this piece into something greater with more substance.



Wow Rodney, you really put a lot of thought and time into this feedback. And putting my mental ear to work I can "hear" that your ideas would have made this a much better composition. The track has a great sound, but it would have been an even stronger composition with your suggestions. You should teach composition. For a fee of course. Or perhaps just give detailed feedback and ideas for a fee. Not many people will put this much time into trying to help another composer gratis. God bless you for the effort.


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## Niel (Oct 14, 2016)

Nice job, very good balanced and mixed! 



willbedford said:


> Thanks for the comments guys! Thanks @Rodney Money - lots to take in there.
> 
> Would people find a video overview of my session helpful? I could throw one together next week. That would be easier than trying to explain my production choices here.



Yes, it would be great.


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## eqcollector (Oct 14, 2016)

wow! this makes me rethink to buy ALL of cinesamples libraries! awesome job!


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## desert (Oct 14, 2016)

Rodney Money said:


> Alright my friend, take my comments as either a grain of salt or an avalanche of powered snow. I enjoyed many aspects of your track especially the lighter percussive moments, the ethnic timbres, the new African Marimba and the Udu (did you have to eq the bass out of that sucker? Lol, jk,) but overall I was more impressed with your production skills than the overall composition itself. There is nothing wrong with your piece, it just sounds like you did the typical: write a chord progression, without going to the piano I think my ears are telling me am, G, dm maybe, write a horn melody over top of the accompaniment, add some softer vamping bridges that crescendo to the next louder part with an added epic percussion groove. We've heard this many, many times before, my friend. I simply think you could have put more time in the overall composition itself starting with more moving, articulated rhythmic parts in the melody but still keeping it beautiful instead of the common "arpeggiated whole-note horn melody that outlines the chords a little too much." The horn melody at the beginning has way too much edge in the sound that is grating to the ears, and I see what your are trying to do with the added Celtic Penny Whistle on top the second time, but it does not quite work creating too much of yen-yang. What horn patch are you using at the beginning? Solo Horn from Pro or another more epic patch? I would advice if you had to go with horn, keep that brassy edge off, keep it warm such as horn a2 in Core for example. But I would honestly not use horn at the beginning. We have heard it all before, and when you bring it back in the epic end it does absolutely nothing to make the piece sound bigger. I think you should start the piece with the penny whistle instead and just let it sing or the Uilleann Pipes or Border Pipes. You have this folky sound, timbre, going on, and then we hear not another folky instrument but horn. I know you are going for the noble, so keep the edge off the horn or totally change the solo instrument to something with a little more "personality" or character like the CineWind Pro Ethnic Winds, CineString Soloists, or something like Alto Flute.
> 
> I would almost cut out from 1:00 to 1:10 since the strings do absolutely nothing more than sound like a background chordal progression and your emotion is being driven mainly by your percussion, not the strings. In that part I would have loved if the violins sang out the melody a little more in the homophonic texture so it did not sound simply as your chord progression with strings at forte with added percussion. I think a greater impact would've been if you did a huge, gradual buildup connecting :47 and 1:14 then letting out the full epic with the horn melody adding trumpets as an answer (you see, in African music you have call and responses, and the echo of call and response from horn to trumpets would have been pure genius, because it then tells of the culture and history of the African people since you introduced us to the Africa Marimba.) Little things like that is what sets composition and composers apart. Williams spends more time over his melodies than the actual composition itself. Instead of worrying about "write quickly, get the track out," take your time with the melody, how could you improved it, or did you just improvise over the top of the chord progression once you written out the accompaniment? And think what little subtleties could I use to make my piece seem a "little deeper." Overall though, great job. I just personally think with more time and more work, you can turn this piece into something greater with more substance.



Definitely agree with what Rodney said. I really think when you bring back the melody at 1:27 one of the chords has to change (maybe C Maj to the gm) to create more epicness for the finale. Horn should be 'saved up' for this part like Rodney said. Andd... take my comments as more grains of salt.

BUT THAT PRODUCTION WORK :D :D fantastic!! Looking forward to the video


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## JohnBMears (Oct 14, 2016)

willbedford said:


> Thanks for the comments guys! Thanks @Rodney Money - lots to take in there.
> 
> Would people find a video overview of my session helpful? I could throw one together next week. That would be easier than trying to explain my production choices here.



I'd be VERY excited to see your video on this track!

Thank you!

JOHN


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## PG (Oct 15, 2016)

Beautiful sounding piece! Excelent job man!! Loved!


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## jjmmuir (Oct 15, 2016)

Yes, agree - production here is spot on. Masterful use of the virtual instruments.
I think @Rodney Money had some thought provoking feedback on the composition as well.


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## kfirpr (Oct 15, 2016)

willbedford said:


> Thanks for the comments guys! Thanks @Rodney Money - lots to take in there.
> 
> Would people find a video overview of my session helpful? I could throw one together next week. That would be easier than trying to explain my production choices here.


Yes it will be awesome.


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## cAudio (Oct 15, 2016)

Great track and production!


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## artomatic (Oct 15, 2016)

Love this piece and respect Rodney's feedback. Bravo!


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## Alatar (Oct 15, 2016)

I cannot find better words, than artomatic:
Very nice piece and very thoughtful feedback by Rodney. Bravo!


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## Pianistikboy (Oct 19, 2016)

Awesome composition, big bravo !! Yes, you have made a good job on it.


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## Rodney Money (Oct 19, 2016)

Paul T McGraw said:


> Wow Rodney, you really put a lot of thought and time into this feedback. And putting my mental ear to work I can "hear" that your ideas would have made this a much better composition. The track has a great sound, but it would have been an even stronger composition with your suggestions. You should teach composition. For a fee of course. Or perhaps just give detailed feedback and ideas for a fee. Not many people will put this much time into trying to help another composer gratis. God bless you for the effort.


You are way too nice, my friend. I'm just trying to be a blessing and offer a little bit of help when I can.


Paul T McGraw said:


> You should teach composition. For a fee of course.


Hey, how did you guess how I pay for preschool every month?


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## E.Heart (Oct 20, 2016)

Yep, video overview would be a good idea.


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## David Stiles (Oct 21, 2016)

The production sounds excellent - you've handled those Cinesamples libraries with an expert touch!

Also, Rodney deserves some kind of award for giving some of the most detailed and thoughtful advice I've ever seen on this forum! I do agree that something more could be done with the track from a compositional point of view, and he has some great ideas on how you could do that.


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## willbedford (Nov 1, 2016)

This is the solo horn I used, if anyone's interested. Just released today. https://cinesamples.com/product/cinebrass-descant-horn

I'm super busy with various projects right now, so I haven't had chance to do a video. I'll do it as soon as I get some free time


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